From nicolas.lehuen at thecrmcompany.com  Wed Apr 21 06:57:33 2004
From: nicolas.lehuen at thecrmcompany.com (Nicolas Lehuen)
Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2004 12:57:33 +0200
Subject: Python 2.3.3 super() behaviour
References: <40863bd7$0$25528$afc38c87@news.easynet.fr>
	<c65fbo$1q4$05$1@news.t-online.com>
	<40864674$0$24834$afc38c87@news.easynet.fr>
	<40864ea6$0$25528$afc38c87@news.easynet.fr>
	<c65j4o$3me$1@ctb-nnrp2.saix.net>
Message-ID: <4086539d$0$24773$afc38c87@news.easynet.fr>

Ah, so there *is* more than one way to do it, then ? ;)

What the example shows is that super(...).__init__ does make one call to
each superclass' __init__, provided that those superclasses play nicely and
use super() themselves (as Peter wrote). If one of the superclasses does not
use super(), the 'magical' iteration over parent methods is interrupted,
hence the need to put those bad guys at the end of the superclasses list in
the class declaration.

But you're right, David, the simplest way to get what I want is to
explicitely call the superclasses' __init__. However, this would mean that
super() is not as useful as it seems. I'd rather find a way to *always* use
super() than have special cases for certain inheritance trees. In other
words, I'd rather have only one way to do it :).

Regards,
Nicolas

"David Fraser" <davidf at sjsoft.com> a ?crit dans le message de
news:c65j4o$3me$1 at ctb-nnrp2.saix.net...
> super is not going to be helpful here, so why not call the X.__init__
> functions explicitly?
> Since you *need* multiple __init__ calls from the multiply-inherited
> class, super isn't going to work...
>
> Nicolas Lehuen wrote:
> > The only problem I have is that I want to build a multiple inheritance
> > involving an object which does not cooperate, namely :
> >
> > class T(object):
> >     def __init__(self):
> >         super(T,self).__init__()
> >
> > class  TL(list,object):
> >     def __init__(self)
> >         super(TL,self).__init__()
> >
> > In this case, T.__init__ is not called, because list.__init__ does not
use
> > super(). The only clean way to proceed is to change the inheritance
order :
> > TL(T,list). This way, both constructors are called.
> >
> > Here is another example which exhibits the behaviour :
> >
> > class A(object):
> >     def __init__(self):
> >         super(A,self).__init__()
> >         print 'A'
> >
> > class B(object):
> >     def __init__(self):
> >         print 'B'
> >
> > class C(B,A):
> >     def __init__(self):
> >         super(C,self).__init__()
> >         print 'C'
> >
> > class D(A,B):
> >     def __init__(self):
> >         super(D,self).__init__()
> >         print 'D'
> >
> >
> >>>>C()
> >
> > B
> > C
> > <__main__.C object at 0x008F3D70>
> >
> >>>>D()
> >
> > B
> > A
> > D
> > <__main__.D object at 0x008F39F0>
> >
> > The problem is that if you go further down the inheritance, the
behaviour is
> > even more complicated :
> >
> > class E(object):
> >     def __init__(self):
> >         super(E,self).__init__()
> >         print 'E'
> >
> > class F(C,E):
> >     def __init__(self):
> >         super(F,self).__init__()
> >         print 'F'
> >
> > class G(D,E):
> >     def __init__(self):
> >         super(G,self).__init__()
> >         print 'G'
> >
> >
> >>>>F()
> >
> > B
> > C
> > F
> > <__main__.F object at 0x008F3D70>
> >
> >>>>G()
> >
> > B
> > A
> > D
> > G
> > <__main__.G object at 0x008F3EF0>
> >
> > class H(E,C):
> >     def __init__(self):
> >         super(H,self).__init__()
> >         print 'H'
> >
> > class I(E,D):
> >     def __init__(self):
> >         super(I,self).__init__()
> >         print 'I'
> >
> >
> >>>>H()
> >
> > B
> > C
> > E
> > H
> > <__main__.H object at 0x008F3E30>
> >
> >>>>I()
> >
> > B
> > A
> > D
> > E
> > I
> > <__main__.I object at 0x008F3FD0>
> >
> > So the conclusion is : never do that :). Another more constructive
> > conclusion would be : always put the most cooperative classes first in
the
> > inheritance declaration, provided that it doesn't interfere with your
needs.
> > A class which has an uncooperative ancestor is less cooperative than a
class
> > which has only cooperative ancestors.
> >
> > Regards,
> > Nicolas
> >
> > "Nicolas Lehuen" <nicolas.lehuen at thecrmcompany.com> a ?crit dans le
message
> > de news:40864674$0$24834$afc38c87 at news.easynet.fr...
> >
> >>OK, I get it now, thanks.
> >>
> >>super() method calls should only be used for method involved in
> >>diamond-shaped inheritance. This is logical since in this case the base
> >>classe (from which the diamond-shaped inheritance starts) defines the
> >>interface of the method.
> >>
> >>This solves another question I was asking myself about super() : "how
can
> >
> > it
> >
> >>work when the method signature differ between B and C ?". Answer : the
> >>method signature should not change because polymorphic calls would be
> >>greatly endangered. The base class defines the signature of the method
> >
> > which
> >
> >>must be followed by all its children, this way super() can work
properly.
> >>
> >>The base method signature is not enforced by Python, of course, but
you'd
> >>better respect it unless you get weird result in polymorphic calls.
> >>
> >>Regards,
> >>Nicolas
> >>
> >>"Peter Otten" <__peter__ at web.de> a ?crit dans le message de
> >>news:c65fbo$1q4$05$1 at news.t-online.com...
> >>
> >>>Nicolas Lehuen wrote:
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>Hi,
> >>>>
> >>>>I hope this is not a FAQ, but I have trouble understanding the
> >
> > behaviour
> >
> >>>>of the super() built-in function. I've read the excellent book 'Python
> >>
> >>in
> >>
> >>>>a Nutshell' which explains this built-in function on pages 89-90.
> >
> > Based
> >
> >>on
> >>
> >>>>the example on page 90, I wrote this test code :
> >>>>
> >>>>class A(object):
> >>>>    def test(self):
> >>>>        print 'A'
> >>>>
> >>>>class B(object):
> >>>>    def test(self):
> >>>>        print 'B'
> >>>>
> >>>>class C(A,B):
> >>>>    def test(self):
> >>>>        super(C,self).test()
> >>>>        print 'C'
> >>>>
> >>>>print C.__mro__
> >>>>c=C()
> >>>>c.test()
> >>>>
> >>>>The output is :
> >>>>(<class '__main__.C'>, <class '__main__.A'>, <class '__main__.B'>,
> >
> > <type
> >
> >>>>'object'>)
> >>>>A
> >>>>C
> >>>>
> >>>>Whereas I was expecting :
> >>>>(<class '__main__.C'>, <class '__main__.A'>, <class '__main__.B'>,
> >
> > <type
> >
> >>>>'object'>)
> >>>>A
> >>>>B
> >>>>C
> >>>>
> >>>>Was I wrong to expect this (based on what I've read ?)
> >>>
> >>>As soon as a test() method without the super(...).test() is reached, no
> >>>further test methods will be invoked. Only the first in the list of
base
> >>>classes will be invoked. If I'm getting it right you have to do
> >
> > something
> >
> >>>like:
> >>>
> >>>class Base(object):
> >>>    def test(self):
> >>>        print "base"
> >>>
> >>>class D1(Base):
> >>>    def test(self):
> >>>        super(D1, self).test()
> >>>        print "derived 1"
> >>>
> >>>class D2(Base):
> >>>    def test(self):
> >>>        super(D2, self).test()
> >>>        print "derived 2"
> >>>
> >>>class All(D1, D2):
> >>>    pass
> >>>
> >>>All().test()
> >>>
> >>>Here all cooperating methods have a super() call, and the base class
> >
> > acts
> >
> >>as
> >>
> >>>a showstopper to prevent that Python tries to invoke the non-existent
> >>>object.test().
> >>>
> >>>Peter
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >




From jepler at unpythonic.net  Thu Apr 15 07:53:17 2004
From: jepler at unpythonic.net (Jeff Epler)
Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2004 06:53:17 -0500
Subject: Deleting objects with method reference
In-Reply-To: <eb7d4731.0404150159.9ec64b3@posting.google.com>
References: <eb7d4731.0404140022.4536ed8d@posting.google.com>
	<c5iusn$v32$03$1@news.t-online.com>
	<eb7d4731.0404150159.9ec64b3@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <20040415115316.GB15354@unpythonic.net>

It works here when I call gc.collect().  There's not exactly a guarantee
about when garbage will be collected otherwise.
>>> o2 = B()
>>> o2.Set()
>>> w2 = weakref.ref(o2, ondel)
>>> del o2
>>> gc.collect()
del
3

Jeff



From boudot-kim at wanadoo.fr  Thu Apr 22 11:58:10 2004
From: boudot-kim at wanadoo.fr (Seo-Kyeong KIM-BOUDOT)
Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2004 17:58:10 +0200
Subject: Paris python user group?
References: <408795ee$0$25893$79c14f64@nan-newsreader-02.noos.net>
Message-ID: <c68q34$7lo$1@news-reader4.wanadoo.fr>

Salut

ca me fait penser aux phpbeermeeting tout ca :) Enfin moi pour boire un coup
je suis toujours d'accord.

c'est quoi ce truc de poster un message en anglais + francais ? sur fr.xxx
le francais suffit. et pour l'universalit?, ya esperanto :p

le plus simple pour commencer serait de creer une liste de diffusion
(mailinglist pour les anglophones), pour ca on a l'embarras du choix (yahoo
groups, ou les mailing lists Sympa, etc).




From paul at prescod.net  Thu Apr  1 11:18:48 2004
From: paul at prescod.net (Paul Prescod)
Date: Thu, 01 Apr 2004 08:18:48 -0800
Subject: PLEASE STOP!!!
In-Reply-To: <95aa1afa.0404010352.80de14e@posting.google.com>
References: <mailman.210.1080803438.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<95aa1afa.0404010352.80de14e@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <406C40E8.10209@prescod.net>

...ruining April Fools! The point is to get long-running debates between 
newbies sucked into believing the joke is real.

Michele Simionato wrote:
 >
 > Today is April the first ... ;)

Camilo Olarte wrote:
 >
 > OOUCH ! I Almost believe it!

  Paul "So I top-posted. What are you going to do about it?" Prescod




From no at sp.am  Wed Apr  7 03:02:55 2004
From: no at sp.am (DH)
Date: Wed, 07 Apr 2004 02:02:55 -0500
Subject: GUI Frameworks in Python?
In-Reply-To: <c502p8$qh3$1@news.service.uci.edu>
References: <mailman.102.1080629227.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<930ba99a.0404030246.786455f5@posting.google.com>
	<8ef9bea6.0404041009.26ae2683@posting.google.com>
	<c4tddj$2mjvdq$1@ID-169208.news.uni-berlin.de>
	<d86dnW_ktOblWu_dRVn-sQ@comcast.com>
	<c502p8$qh3$1@news.service.uci.edu>
Message-ID: <8bydnQEwvqo-Ou7dRVn-hQ@comcast.com>

Josiah Carlson wrote:
>>> That's just one example of how the PyGtk API is simpler. It might
>>> not sound like much, but lots of little things like that add up
>>> to make me like PyGtk much better.
...

> What parts of the 2.4 to 2.5 conversion are steps backward?

Here's one example of unneeded extra typing, compared to virtually every 
other GUI API, to further illustrate Josiah's point:

Java drawline: (AWT & Swing)
   graphics.drawline(x1,y1,x2,y2)

Visual Basic drawline:
   graphics.drawline(pen,x1,y1,x2,y2)

pyqt drawline:
   painter.drawline(x1,y1,x2,y2)

anygui drawline: (wraps wxpython and other guis)
   canvas.drawLine(x1,y1,x2,y2)

piddle drawline: (wraps wxpython and other guis)
   canvas.drawline(x1,y1,x2,y2)

pythoncard drawline (wraps wxpython)
   drawline(x1,y1,x2,y2)

pygtk drawline:
   draw_line(drawable, gc, x1, y1, x2, y2)

tkinter drawline:
   canvas.create_line(x1,y1,x2,y2)

pygame drawline:
   pygame.draw.line(surface,(r,g,b),(x1,y1),(x2,y2))

wxPython 2.4 drawline:
   wxdc.drawline(x1,y1,x2,y2)

wxPython 2.5 drawline:
   wxdc.drawline (wxPoint(x1,y1),wxPoint(x2,y2))
   or the much simpler ((x1,y1),(x2,y2))
   or you can do drawlineXY(x1,y1,x2,y2)

Admittedly, wxPython is still simpler than OpenGL:
def drawline(x1,y1,x2,y2):
     glBegin (GL_LINES)
     glVertex2f (x1,y1)
     glVertex2f (x2,y2)
     glEnd ()


From imbosol at aerojockey.invalid  Tue Apr 27 22:19:35 2004
From: imbosol at aerojockey.invalid (Carl Banks)
Date: Wed, 28 Apr 2004 02:19:35 GMT
Subject: Is Perl *that* good?
References: <c6ich0$c5mee$1@ID-205437.news.uni-berlin.de>
	<knbjc.267$id.3998@news2.e.nsc.no>
	<pan.2004.04.26.20.50.19.843510@hotmail.com>
	<87fzaqmm8t.fsf@strauser.com>
	<38ec68a6.0404262308.50029919@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.49.1083084698.25742.python-list@python.org>
	<pan.2004.04.27.18.15.56.169064@hotmail.com>
	<Z_Bjc.1397$ZD3.139@fe1.columbus.rr.com>
	<roy-C1F2BF.19434527042004@reader2.panix.com>
	<ECCjc.30580$Vp5.25085@fe2.columbus.rr.com>
	<roy-15912E.20355127042004@reader2.panix.com>
Message-ID: <XwEjc.31513$Vp5.16074@fe2.columbus.rr.com>

Roy Smith wrote:
> In article <ECCjc.30580$Vp5.25085 at fe2.columbus.rr.com>,
> Carl Banks <imbosol at aerojockey.invalid> wrote:
> 
>> It's worse because, unlike most objects, regexp objects are usually
>> global (at least they are when I use them).  Moreover, the library
>> encourages us to make regexp objects global by exposing the regexp
>> compiler.  So even if you personally use local regexps (and accept the
>> resulting performance hit), many will declare them global.
> 
> I don't see why regexps are usually global.  Nor do I see why exposing 
> the compiler encourages them to be global, or why making them local 
> should result in a performance hit.

Because if regexp objects are local, they have to be recompiled every
time you call the function.  If you're doing that, you could be taking
a performance hit.  I guess it depends on your functional style,
though.  If your scripts have only one or two functions where all the
regexps are and it only gets called a few times, then it probably
won't matter too much to you.

If you do stuff recursively (as I often do) or break up code into
smaller functions (as I often do) so that the functions with these
regexps get called numerous times, it can help performance to move the
compile step out of the functions.

The point is, the existence re.compile encourages people to make
regexp objects global so they only need to be compiled once, when the
module is loaded.  Because of this, and especially because regexps are
prone to being used in recursive functions and such, it's dangerous to
allow them to have state.



> I do a lot of regex work.   I just looked over a bunch of scripts I 
> happen to have handy and only found one where I used global regexp 
> objects.  In that script, the regexps were only used in a single 
> routine, so moving them down in scope to be local to that routine would 
> have made more sense anyway.  Looking back at the code, which I wrote 
> several years ago, I have no idea why I decided to make them global.

Well, that's fine.  For the reasons I've stated, I think there are
good reasons to not do it the way you did it.


-- 
CARL BANKS                      http://www.aerojockey.com/software
"If you believe in yourself, drink your school, stay on drugs, and
don't do milk, you can get work." 
          -- Parody of Mr. T from a Robert Smigel Cartoon


From claird at lairds.com  Mon Apr 26 09:52:51 2004
From: claird at lairds.com (Cameron Laird)
Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2004 13:52:51 -0000
Subject: Is Perl *that* good? (was: How's ruby compare to it older brother
	python)
References: <c6ich0$c5mee$1@ID-205437.news.uni-berlin.de>
	<iL3jc.232$Yc.2330@news4.e.nsc.no>
Message-ID: <108q51j4dscn7dc@corp.supernews.com>

In article <iL3jc.232$Yc.2330 at news4.e.nsc.no>,
Leif B. Kristensen <junkmail at solumslekt.org> wrote:
			.
			.
			.
>getting dynamic HTML pages up and running quickly. Perl is great for
>its string-handling abilities. (On my Web pages, I actually call a Perl
>script from PHP precisely for this reason.)
			.
			.
			.
I hear this more often than I understand it.  Perl certainly
does support many string-oriented operations.  What's a speci-
fic example, though, of an action you feel more comfortable 
coding in external Perl?  I suspect there's something I need
to learn about PHP's deficiencies, or Perl's power.
-- 

Cameron Laird <claird at phaseit.net>
Business:  http://www.Phaseit.net


From claird at lairds.com  Wed Apr 21 10:50:55 2004
From: claird at lairds.com (Cameron Laird)
Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2004 14:50:55 -0000
Subject: Python GUI wrapper for a long operation
References: <de21d442.0404142156.2b9f7ef0@posting.google.com>
	<de21d442.0404201902.429a6b22@posting.google.com>
	<108cnp89aedqp82@corp.supernews.com>
	<mailman.831.1082550203.20120.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <108d2ifgg4fqh7d@corp.supernews.com>

In article <mailman.831.1082550203.20120.python-list at python.org>,
Jeff Epler  <jepler at unpythonic.net> wrote:
>To interleave calculation and GUI activity in the same thread, simply
>call the "update_idletasks" or "update" method on any Tk widget at
>intervals.
			.
		[much useful detail]
			.
			.
Yes and no.

First, I want readers to know that they're lucky.  Jeff's
*good* with Tkinter, among other things Pythonic, and I
always seek out his postings for their valuable content.

I have particular experience that obliges me to supplement
his counsel in specialized areas.  The proposition above
is slightly fragile in the vicinity of "simply".  Some
developers never seem to "get the hang" of update().  
Update() itself has subtleties, and a significant number
of developers like to rework our designs to avoid it; as 
it turns out, it's possible and desirable in general to
rewrite update() uses in terms of transformed, event-oriented 
segments.  Finally, there are some "long operation[s]"
that simply are not compatible with the Tcl-based event-
orientation behind update().

While I'm sure Fredrik has written on at least some of these
matters, I'll not make the time now to track down his essays.
For the moment, I recommend the Tcl-targeted <URL:
http://wiki.tcl.tk/1526 >, which I think those with an
interest in intermediate Tkinter topics find readable.
-- 

Cameron Laird <claird at phaseit.net>
Business:  http://www.Phaseit.net


From glc at well.com  Fri Apr 23 07:34:26 2004
From: glc at well.com (Greg Chapman)
Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2004 11:34:26 GMT
Subject: problem pickling objects created with the type function
References: <85bc2819.0404211357.6ec10ec7@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <2nvh80hafh97pqsqsrgdeh9e2af0f385ql@4ax.com>

On 21 Apr 2004 14:57:17 -0700, danny_shevitz at yahoo.com (danny) wrote:

>I'm pretty sure the failure is because 'foobar' is never in the global
>namespace. If I change the code to foobar = type('foobar',...  then
>the code works, but I dont' want to do this because I create the class
>name in a factory and it is mangled to prevent different invocations
>of the factory from having the same class name.
>
>Does anyone know how to get around this, or how to get 'foobar' =
>childType into the global namespace?

You should be able to make foobars pickleable without introducing foobar into
the global namespace by using a __reduce__ method, see:

http://www.python.org/peps/pep-0307.html

expecially the section "Extended __reduce__ API".

---
Greg Chapman



From http  Fri Apr 16 16:08:11 2004
From: http (Paul Rubin)
Date: 16 Apr 2004 13:08:11 -0700
Subject: Automatic, portable optimization of global access
References: <5d83790c.0404150721.46a3b5d0@posting.google.com>
	<7xvfk17zeg.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<5d83790c.0404151803.598c1807@posting.google.com>
	<7xbrlseclf.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<5d83790c.0404160319.f46f2f9@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <7x1xmnvg7o.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

python at rcn.com (Raymond Hettinger) writes:
> > Well, it's possible that builtins get changed too.  I've used "len" as
> > a variable a few times without realizing that I was clobbering a builtin.
> 
> Paul, I don't know how to say this more clearly.  Don't use constant
> binding in places where the underlying values can change.

I'm saying your optimization is important enough that it should be run
on everything, except the rare cases where it's invalid to do so, and
running it should not require manual intervention on the user's part.
I think the places where the underlying values can change can be
detected by the compiler enough of the time to usually run the optimizer.


From richie at entrian.com  Sat Apr  3 05:13:50 2004
From: richie at entrian.com (Richie Hindle)
Date: Sat, 03 Apr 2004 11:13:50 +0100
Subject: [maybe OT] Making posters
In-Reply-To: <95aa1afa.0404030143.58c32975@posting.google.com>
References: <95aa1afa.0404030143.58c32975@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <9e3t6097tuokt4hu5r11ejgvkqk24341oo@4ax.com>


[Michele]
> Perhaps this is a bit off topic, but I haven't had look browsing on the
> net, so I thought I will try my chance here. I am looking for a
> tool taking a postscript file and enlarging it to make a poster.
> For instance I want to convert a picture taking a sheet in a poster
> made by four sheet that I can compose. Any suggestion? A Python
> suggestion would help me to stay on topic ;)

You don't mention your platform, but my printer driver (WinXP driver for
the Samsumg ML-1210 laser printer) will do this itself for any document -
have you had a good dig though your printer driver options?

-- 
Richie Hindle
richie at entrian.com




From peter at engcorp.com  Thu Apr 22 22:10:24 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2004 22:10:24 -0400
Subject: Why we will use obj$func() often
In-Reply-To: <27_hc.23801$dZ1.2716@fed1read04>
References: <d2Uhc.22272$dZ1.1600@fed1read04> <84Uhc.22278$dZ1.5087@fed1read04>
	<mailman.927.1082665370.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<8AWhc.23114$dZ1.11070@fed1read04> <40883BFE.B381518A@alcyone.com>
	<27_hc.23801$dZ1.2716@fed1read04>
Message-ID: <ZIqdna0YaN2M5hXd4p2dnA@powergate.ca>

Mark Hahn wrote:

> I am serious when I say I think that Python has headed off into egghead land
> a bit and I feel that keeps a lot of people from switching to it.  I think
> that this heady stuff scares them off.  

Not likely.  Most people learning or using Python still have little
interest in or need for metaclass programming, and I *strongly*
doubt it has scared off more than a handful of people.

Likewise, the differences between prototype-based languages and
class-based languages do not appear significant enough to be
the sole reason to pick one over the other.  The community,
on the other hand, and the libraries -- well, those are good
reasons for picking Python.  It will be interesting to see whether
Prothon manages to achieve similar success in either area.
And if it does, well, see my first point in this sentence again...

-Peter


From gandreas at no.reply  Thu Apr  1 09:47:36 2004
From: gandreas at no.reply (Glenn Andreas)
Date: Thu, 01 Apr 2004 08:47:36 -0600
Subject: Prothon Prototypes vs Python Classes
References: <569c605ld1cj8fc1emolk08ete0s1prls1@4ax.com>
	<slrnc6cge2.ctd.joe@gate.notcharles.ca>
	<69cbbef2.0403280928.438d194f@posting.google.com>
	<slrnc6e2sm.fhj.joe@gate.notcharles.ca>
	<69cbbef2.0403311324.32837704@posting.google.com>
	<slrnc6mvgv.rga.joe@gate.notcharles.ca>
Message-ID: <gandreas-1F419E.08473601042004@news.mpls.visi.com>

In article <slrnc6mvgv.rga.joe at gate.notcharles.ca>,
 Joe Mason <joe at notcharles.ca> wrote:

> In article <69cbbef2.0403311324.32837704 at posting.google.com>, has wrote:
> > Joe Mason <joe at notcharles.ca> wrote in message 
> > news:<slrnc6e2sm.fhj.joe at gate.notcharles.ca>...
> >> In article <69cbbef2.0403280928.438d194f at posting.google.com>, has wrote:
> >> > # Library pseudocode
> >> > 
> >> > _fooRegistry = []
> >> > 
> >> > obj _Foo: # prototype object
> >> >     # Foo's code goes here
> >> > 
> >> > def Foo(): # constructor function
> >> >     newFoo = _Foo.copy()
> >> >     _fooRegistry.append(newFoo)
> >> >     return newFoo
> >> > 
> >> > 
> >> > Dirt simple with not an ounce of class metaprogramming in sight.
> >> 
> >> Is Foo() the standard syntax for making a new _Foo object?  If this is a
> >> new wrapper you just created, then it's no different than adding a
> >> register() method - the user has to know that something different is
> >> being done.
> >> 
> >> If Foo() is the standard syntax, and you're just overriding the
> >> implementation here, does that get inherited?  If so, this missed the
> >> condition that only some of the descendants should get added to the
> >> registry.  If not - well, inheriting the constructor seems like the more
> >> useful behaviour in general, so why not?
> > 
> > Don't think you've quite got the point of prototype-based OO yet.
> > There's no real 'standard syntax' for making objects; nor is there any
> > inheritance, classes, metaclasses, or instances. To create a new
> > object from scratch, execute the code that defines it. Alternatively,
> > duplicate an existing object.
> 
> There certainly is a standard syntax for making objects.  I need to know
> how to "duplicate an existing object".  Is it "obj.dup()"?
> "obj.clone()"?  "duplicate obj"?  Most probably, the language (or
> standard library) defines one of these, and I expect most objects to be
> duplicated in the same way.
> 
It can be a bit more subtle than that in a prototype based system, since 
there are two things that are different, but have nearly identical 
results, but could both be considered "duplicate an object".

In general, you don't want to _duplicate_ the object, but rather use 
that object as "prototype" for the new object.

First, you can make a new object that has all the same 
slots/properties/attributes as the first object - let's just call that 
"clone" for now (and we'll assume single inheritence, via a slot called 
"__parent")

   > print obj.__parent
   None
   > obj.a = 1
   > obj.foo = def ():
         print "a=",self.a
   > obj.foo()
   a=1
   > obj1 = obj.clone()
   > print obj1.__parent
   None
   > obj.a = 2 # change something in the original object
   > print obj1.a # unchanged in the "clone"
   1
   > obj1.foo()
   a=1

and we'll make the second object that has first object as the __parent 
(and we'll pretend that the syntax is "new <some expression>"

   > obj2 = new obj1
   > print obj2.__parent
   <obj1>
   > obj2.foo()
   a=2 # since it inherits from obj1

(obviously, the object doesn't actually retain the binded local variable 
name)

If we looked at these three objects in a debugger:

   obj = <Object 0x1> { __parent: None, a: 1, foo: <Method 0x2> }
   obj1 = <Object 0x3> { __parent: None, a: 2, foo: <Method 0x2> }
   obj2 = <Object 0x4> { __parent: <Object 0x1> }

If we hadn't changed obj1.a, both obj1 and obj2 would behave identically 
to obj (they all have the same properties, same behavior), even though 
internally, they are fairly different (obj1 is independant of obj, while 
obj2 is completely dependant on obj).  Since both "data" and "behavior" 
is inherited, this is different from traditional class/instance 
organization (where an instance shares its behavior (methods) with all 
other instances, but has private data).  This also makes the issue of 
"obj2.a = 5" important, since at that point obj2 would normally get it's 
own value of "a" (and otherwise would inherit the value of obj.a), and 
you'd want a clean way to alter obj.a from a method in obj2 
("obj2.__parent.a = 3" would work, this is where directed resends are 
used in Self).

In general, you want obj2 (since it inherits everything from obj, much 
like an instance "inherits" stuff from its superclass), but both are 
useful.


From joe at notcharles.ca  Mon Apr 12 02:53:53 2004
From: joe at notcharles.ca (Joe Mason)
Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2004 06:53:53 GMT
Subject: Is there a boolean(somestring) equivalent of int(somestring).
	bool('false') -> True
References: <KPENJIMKHJPNKOLFIHBNIEKLCGAA.vineet@eswap.com>
	<mailman.536.1081742734.20120.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <slrnc7kf7d.uqh.joe@gate.notcharles.ca>

In article <mailman.536.1081742734.20120.python-list at python.org>, Paul Prescod wrote:
> Maybe in your mind. What about "true", "TRUE", "oui", "1.0", "positive" 
> and "yeah". How far do you intend to go? Name a single language or 
> system that treats "True", "on", "1" and "yes" as positive values and 
> "False", "off", "0" and "no" as negative values. If Python started 

UniConf

http://open.nit.ca/wiki/?page=UniConf

(The current list is "true", "yes", "on", and "enabled" evaluate to 1,
"false", "no", "off", and "disabled" to 0, anything else is passed
through strtol.  This is specifically a configuration system, where it
makes sense to be forgiving in what you accept, but you did ask for a
language *or system*.)

Joe


From ngps at netmemetic.com  Fri Apr  9 08:12:50 2004
From: ngps at netmemetic.com (Ng Pheng Siong)
Date: 9 Apr 2004 12:12:50 GMT
Subject: user authentication via /etc/passwd|/etc/shadow
References: <c4ork9$2kssti$1@ID-165840.news.uni-berlin.de>
	<c4phmr$k6i$04$1@news.t-online.com>
	<c4v5b6$2lvqkn$1@ID-165840.news.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <c56402$v56$1@reader01.singnet.com.sg>

According to Marco Herrn  <herrn at gmx.net>:
> And what about the prefix $1$ for md5? When this is available just cut
> it off the hash? 

Yes, don't hash it.

> Are there any other forms of such prefixes? 

$ uname
FreeBSD

$ man 3 crypt
[...]
   Modular crypt:
     If the salt begins with the string $digit$ then the Modular Crypt Format
     is used.  The digit represents which algorithm is used in encryption.
     Following the token is the actual salt to use in the encryption.  The
     length of the salt is limited to 8 characters--because the length of the
     returned output is also limited (_PASSWORD_LEN).  The salt must be termi-
     nated with the end of the string (NULL) or a dollar sign.  Any characters
     after the dollar sign are ignored.

     Currently supported algorithms are:

           1.   MD5
           2.   Blowfish

I believe this $digit$ convention was invented by the BSDs.

Cheers.


-- 
Ng Pheng Siong <ngps at netmemetic.com> 

http://firewall.rulemaker.net -+- Firewall Change Management & Version Control
http://sandbox.rulemaker.net/ngps -+- ZServerSSL/Zope Windows Installers


From peter.maas at mplusr.de  Fri Apr  2 10:57:54 2004
From: peter.maas at mplusr.de (Peter Maas)
Date: Fri, 02 Apr 2004 17:57:54 +0200
Subject: Creating a matrix?
In-Reply-To: <fcSdnaOLcexsFPDdRVn-jg@powergate.ca>
References: <c4jve7$5vr$1@bagan.srce.hr> <c4k0ho$r73$1@swifty.westend.com>
	<fcSdnaOLcexsFPDdRVn-jg@powergate.ca>
Message-ID: <c4k2f8$t0v$1@swifty.westend.com>

Peter Hansen wrote:
>  >>> matrix[1][2] = '1'
>  >>> matrix
> [['0', '0', '1', '0'], ['0', '0', '1', '0'], ['0', '0', '1', '0'], ['0', 
> '0', '1
> ', '0']]
> 
> Notice that each of the inner lists contains four seperate references
> to the string '0', but the outer repetition simply copies the inner
> list four times, resulting in four references to the same inner list!
> Changing any one element affects the same entry in each of the other
> three lists...

Sorry:

matrix = [['0']*N for i in range(N)]

Mit freundlichen Gruessen,

Peter Maas

-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Peter Maas, M+R Infosysteme, D-52070 Aachen, Hubert-Wienen-Str. 24
Tel +49-241-93878-0 Fax +49-241-93878-20 eMail peter.maas at mplusr.de
-------------------------------------------------------------------


From my_full_name_concatenated at myrealbox.com  Thu Apr 29 03:03:54 2004
From: my_full_name_concatenated at myrealbox.com (Ivan Karajas)
Date: Wed, 28 Apr 2004 23:03:54 -0800
Subject: 404 errors
References: <408dcc25$0$16577$5a62ac22@freenews.iinet.net.au>
	<pan.2004.04.27.08.46.46.977704@o2.pl.bez.tego>
Message-ID: <pan.2004.04.29.07.03.54.528586@myrealbox.com>

On Tue, 27 Apr 2004 10:46:47 +0200, Tut wrote:

> Tue, 27 Apr 2004 11:00:57 +0800, Derek Fountain wrote:
> 
>> Some servers respond with a nicely formatted bit of HTML explaining the
>> problem, which is fine for a human, but not for a script. Is there some
>> flag or something definitive on the response which says "this is a 404
>> error"?
> 
> Maybe catch the urllib2.HTTPError?

This kind of answers the question. urllib will let you read whatever it
receives, regardless of the HTTP status; you need to use urllib2 if you
want to find out the status code when a request results in an error (any
HTTP status beginning with a 4 or 5). This can be done like so:
 
import urllib2
try:
    asock = urllib2.urlopen("http://www.foo.com/qwerty.html")
except urllib2.HTTPError, e:
    print e.code

The value in urllib2.HTTPError.code comes from the first line of the web
server's HTTP response, just before the headers begin, e.g. "HTTP/1.1 200
OK", or "HTTP/1.1 404 Not Found".

One thing you need to be aware of is that some web sites don't behave as
you would expect them to; e.g. responding with a redirection rather than a
404 error when you when you request a page that doesn't exist. In these
cases you might still have to rely on some clever scripting.

Cheers,

Ivan


From premshree_python at yahoo.co.in  Wed Apr  7 02:34:28 2004
From: premshree_python at yahoo.co.in (=?iso-8859-1?q?Premshree=20Pillai?=)
Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2004 07:34:28 +0100 (BST)
Subject: pyAlbum.py - Python Album Generator
Message-ID: <20040407063428.49036.qmail@web8312.mail.in.yahoo.com>

Hello people,
 
I recently updated one of my Python scripts --
pyAlbum.py
This is a simple, command-line based, lightweight
Python script to create an image album.

Of course, there are plenty of image album creation
tools -- a lot of them are very good. But, I wanted
something very simple, something that doesn't scare
the user with too many options. The final album should
be clean -- something like what Zope's Image object
offers.

Here are some of the features of the script:
+ Thumbnail creation (using a scaling factor that the
user enters)
+ Image creation for the HTML of individual images
(again using a scaling factor that the user enters)
+ The album Index file includes dimensions and file
size of each image
+ The script generates a single CSS -- this makes
changing the style very simple
+ The script runs on the command-line, and does not
require any server-side processing

Other requirements:
+ Python Imaging Library
(http://www.pythonware.com/products/daily)

So, the idea of the script is -- Keep It As Simple As
Possible

You can see a sample of an album created using this
script at
http://www.premshree.resource-locator.com/python/pyAlbum/sample/index.htm

Oh, and the script itself is available at
http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Cookbook/Python/Recipe/271246

I hope it's useful.

Sincerely,
Premshree Pillai

________________________________________________________________________
Yahoo! India Insurance Special: Be informed on the best policies, services, tools and more. 
Go to: http://in.insurance.yahoo.com/licspecial/index.html



From mwh at python.net  Thu Apr 22 10:27:15 2004
From: mwh at python.net (Michael Hudson)
Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2004 14:27:15 GMT
Subject: AOP use cases
References: <84fc4588.0404140106.3fa0c55@posting.google.com>
	<slrnc7q1ss.1aa.alf@largo.fayauffre.org>
	<cb035744.0404141130.170f51c4@posting.google.com>
	<slrnc7sgat.vp.alf@largo.fayauffre.org>
	<cb035744.0404160442.2f0b1661@posting.google.com>
	<0pydnSB4WYuieuLdRVn-hQ@powergate.ca>
	<tyfbrlkv3ae.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
	<XYmdnVLB9rjbARrdRVn-vg@powergate.ca>
	<tyf7jw8utoo.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
Message-ID: <m3zn94nl4s.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk>

Jacek Generowicz <jacek.generowicz at cern.ch> writes:

[...]

> Well, that depends on what you think AOP is.

[...]

> Sorry, this ended up much longer than it should have been.

Nevertheless, thank you for it.  I was at the PythonUK conference last
week, which was part of the ACCU spring conference, and *lots* of
people were asking "can you do Aspect Oriented Programming in python?"
and my repsonses tended to be much less articulate versions of that
post.

Cheers,
mwh

-- 
  In general, I'd recommend injecting LSD directly into your temples,
  Syd-Barret-style, before mucking with Motif's resource framework.
  The former has far lower odds of leading directly to terminal
  insanity.                                            -- Dan Martinez


From no at spam.pls  Mon Apr  5 04:26:43 2004
From: no at spam.pls (Matthias)
Date: 05 Apr 2004 10:26:43 +0200
Subject: Python is faster than C
References: <DE1CF2B4FEC4A342BF62B6B2B334601E561FAC@opus.amorhq.net>
	<mailman.311.1081031736.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<c4qnom$p6j$1@panix1.panix.com>
Message-ID: <36wn05qkeyk.fsf@hundertwasser.ti.uni-mannheim.de>

aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz) writes:
> While I'm generally in favor of what you're talking about, it seems to a
> certain extent that you're simply shifting complexity.  Maintaining the
> simplicity of the Python VM is an important goal, I think, and some of
> your suggestions run counter to that goal.

Isn't the whole idea of very high level languages to shift complexity
from the user code to the language implementation?  

That's not a rhetorical question: Why is it that "simplicity of the
Python VM is an important goal"?  I would guess that overall it pays
to have a more complex language implementation and be rewarded by
simpler user code: For any decent language there's much more user code
out there than language implementation code.

One example where Python in the past made (in my opinion, for my
particular projects) the wrong choice is speed: People argued that
"simplicity of the Python VM" is more important than speed gains.  The
result (for my code) was that after profiling, etc., I was coding
significant parts of my programs in C.  No productivity gain
observed. With JIT compilation (psyco) this step might become
unnecessary: More complex VM, greatly simplified user code.


From roman.yakovenko at actimize.com  Wed Apr 14 09:21:01 2004
From: roman.yakovenko at actimize.com (Roman Yakovenko)
Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2004 16:21:01 +0300
Subject: Unable to create com object - need help
Message-ID: <2D89F6C4A80FA547BF5D5B8FDDD04523060C64@exchange.adrembi.com>

Sorry, wrong alarm. The only thing that is wrong is an order of class
defined in generated module. IEnumUnknown defined after first use.

Roman

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Roman Yakovenko 
> Sent: Wednesday, April 14, 2004 4:06 PM
> To: python-list at python.org
> Subject: RE: Unable to create com object - need help
> 
> 
> I tried your module. It seems that you generate code right :-)
> but IEnumUnknown doesn't defined in any file. 
> I can try to edit ctypes.com.__init__.py to get the desired result.
> But before I do this I'd like to ask you do you have more 
> recent version that fix it.
> If so I'll be glad. If not I will try to write a patch.
> 
> Roman
> 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Roman Yakovenko 
> > Sent: Wednesday, April 14, 2004 3:34 PM
> > To: python-list at python.org
> > Subject: RE: Unable to create com object - need help
> > 
> > 
> > Thank you very much. I definitly will try your module.
> > Also I still have to questions:
> > 1. How does VB success to work with this dll?
> > 2. Why after using makepy utility I don't get interface 
> > registered in DiaSource class
> > 
> > I understand that the first question is generic one, and has 
> > nothing to do with python.
> > But any reference to this specifiec topic will be 
> > appreciated. Also I'd like to know the answer
> > to the second question. It will help me a lot in my future work
> > 
> > Roman.
> > 
> > 
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Thomas Heller [mailto:theller at python.net]
> > > Sent: Wednesday, April 14, 2004 2:57 PM
> > > To: python-list at python.org
> > > Subject: Re: Unable to create com object - need help
> > > 
> > > 
> > > "Roman Yakovenko" <roman.yakovenko at actimize.com> writes:
> > > 
> > > > 	Hi. I need some help. 
> > > > Here is my situation. It is a little bit difficult to 
> > > explain and/or understand.
> > > > I'd like to use msdia71.dll. This dll gives you access to 
> > > program database files
> > > > created during a build. I register this dll. This is pure 
> > com dll. 
> > > > This dll contains 3 top classes. I'd like to create one of 
> > > them - DiaSource. 
> > > > This class implements IDiaDataSource interface. This fact I 
> > > can see in dia2.idl. 
> > > >
> > > >  importlib("stdole2.tlb");
> > > >     [
> > > >         uuid(e60afbee-502d-46ae-858f-8272a09bd707),
> > > >         helpstring("DiaSource Class")
> > > >     ]
> > > >     coclass DiaSource
> > > >     {
> > > >         [default] interface IDiaDataSource;
> > > >     };
> > > >
> > > > after using makepy I get 
> > > >
> > > > class DiaSource(CoClassBaseClass): # A CoClass
> > > > 	# DiaSource Class
> > > > 	CLSID = IID('{E60AFBEE-502D-46AE-858F-8272A09BD707}')
> > > > 	coclass_sources = [
> > > > 	]
> > > > 	coclass_interfaces = [
> > > > 	]
> > > > If I understand right DiaSource doesn't implements 
> > > IDiaDataSource interface at all. 
> > > > May be this is a bug, may be I don't understand something. 
> > > Clarifying this point will be great.
> > > 
> > > I think this has to do with the fact that with pywin32 you 
> > > cannot access
> > > arbitrary com interfaces - only interfaces that either have 
> > > been wrapped
> > > in pythoncom.dll or that derive from IDispatch.  The DIA 
> > > interfaces all
> > > derive from IUnknown, so it seems you cannot call them.
> > > 
> > > There is ongoing work in pywin32 named 'universal' or 
> something like
> > > that, but I don't know how far it is.
> > > 
> > > Another possibility is to use ctypes com layer, it has a 
> > tool somewhat
> > > similar to makepy - it's called readtlb.py, and creates 
> > > python wrappers
> > > for com interfaces.  ctypes.com has some samples 
> > > demonstrating all this.
> > > 
> > > HTH,
> > > 
> > > Thomas
> > > 
> > > 
> > > -- 
> > > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
> > > 
> > 
> > -- 
> > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
> > 
> 
> -- 
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
> 



From rmunn at pobox.com  Tue Apr 20 09:32:04 2004
From: rmunn at pobox.com (Robin Munn)
Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 13:32:04 GMT
Subject: tutorials
References: <aada3d1a5a6b298d1ae607fceea91804@news.thenewsgroups.com>
Message-ID: <slrnc8a9ik.f0t.rmunn@rmunnlfs.dyndns.org>

Deefex <Deefex.14s2bz at mail.codecomments.com> wrote:
> hey what's up, i've been looking for online tutorials to learn python on
> windows but i can't find anything. does anyone know a good site with
> good beginner's python information? thank you very much.

Python's own website, http://www.python.org/, contains good beginner's
Python information. Start with http://www.python.org/topics/learn/ and
explore the links, especially the tutorial links.

As for tutorials specific to Python on Windows: most of Python is
OS-independent and will work the same no matter what operating system
you're running on: Windows, Unix, or Mac. Once you've got a sufficient
grasp of Python as a language, then you can start exploring the parts
that are specific to Windows. I don't know much about that subject, as I
mainly use Linux, but you could start with Mark Hammond's Python for
Windows extensions and go from there:

    http://starship.python.net/crew/mhammond/

-- 
Robin Munn
rmunn at pobox.com


From fumanchu at amor.org  Sun Apr  4 13:14:22 2004
From: fumanchu at amor.org (Robert Brewer)
Date: Sun, 4 Apr 2004 10:14:22 -0700
Subject: Python is faster than C
Message-ID: <DE1CF2B4FEC4A342BF62B6B2B334601E561FAD@opus.amorhq.net>

Raymond Hettinger wrote:
> [Armin Rigo] 
> > >>> enumerate([6,7,8,9])         # uh ?
> > <enumerate object at 0x401a102c>
> 
> This got me thinking about how much I would like to see the contents
> of an iterator at the interactive prompt.
>8
> >>> enumerate('abcdefgh')
> <enumerate object at 0x401a102c:  (0, 'a') (1, 'b') (2, 'c') ...>

This would not bring joy to not-repeatable iterators... :(


FuManChu



From theller at python.net  Fri Apr 16 15:35:40 2004
From: theller at python.net (Thomas Heller)
Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2004 21:35:40 +0200
Subject: Best IDE?
References: <c5bg1k$25vq$1@news.wplus.net>
	<4ace7f9f.0404111147.3120288a@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.543.1081755983.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<Z2Wec.22209$8V.18569@newssvr27.news.prodigy.com>
	<ad2a0ff0939b8226ed28f707af136431@news.teranews.com>
	<ce6080lqkp4t6d8i6vu7hq91k5didmgkck@4ax.com>
	<VcGdnVVRwdwCsx3d4p2dnA@powergate.ca>
Message-ID: <u0zj90mr.fsf@python.net>

Peter Hansen <peter at engcorp.com> writes:

> Chuck Spears wrote:
>>>CodeWright, now available from Borland.  AFAIK, it's feature
>>> compatible with Visual SlickEdit, though I think it's available
>>> only on multiple Windows platforms.  ;-)
>>>   --dang
>> Borland is killing off this project.

Am I happy that I dropped CodeWright some years ago, and switched to
XEmacs ;-)

> Thanks for the tip.  References are always nice though, so for
> the record:
>
> http://discuss.fogcreek.com/joelonsoftware/default.asp?cmd=show&ixPost=131490
>
> I can't find anything official (from Borland) about this, but the
> above note was posted on April 10, not April 1, and says Borland
> emailed an announcement to customers, so it seems likely to be true. ;-)

http://www.codewright.com/  automatically redirects to 
http://www.codewright.com/borland/, and this has a link to the open
letter to the CodeWright customers.

Not too prominent, though.

Thomas




From steve at ninereeds.fsnet.co.uk  Tue Apr  6 10:34:34 2004
From: steve at ninereeds.fsnet.co.uk (Stephen Horne)
Date: Tue, 06 Apr 2004 15:34:34 +0100
Subject: Type checking inside a C extension... doesn't throw exception
	on failure
References: <c4qdfh$2l5b73$1@ID-180326.news.uni-berlin.de>
	<40712D9E.3050802@prescod.net> <407229F6.6080809@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <k1f5705ub212b5mk8dkhp764e5h6vn8had@4ax.com>

On Tue, 06 Apr 2004 11:54:30 +0800, Jon Perez <jbperez808 at yahoo.com>
wrote:

>Paul Prescod wrote:
>
>> It isn't true that PyLong_AsLong does no type checking. It does. It 
>> reports problems through the standard Python exception system.
>
>This illustrates a case where a crash occurs instead of an
>exception being thrown.  Feed spam.getstring() something besides a
>string:
>
>static PyObject *spam_getstring(PyObject *self, PyObject *args) {
>   PyObject *tup, *a, *b;
>
>   char strstr[100];
>
>   if (!PyArg_ParseTuple(args, "O", &strobj))
>     return NULL;
>
>   // PyString_AsString(strobj);  // raises exception
>   strcpy(strstr,PyString_AsString(strobj));  /* crashes!! */
>
>   Py_INCREF(Py_None);
>   return Py_None;
>}
>
>What gives? Shouldn't the exception be raised within PyString_AsString()
>before it even gets a chance to return a value to strcpy()?

I assume you're talking about when the PyString_AsString *isn't*
commented out ;-)


Python exceptions aren't converted to C exceptions, and the Python C
API doesn't use C exceptions at all. There is a good reason for this.
C doesn't have exceptions - C++ does, but this is a C API.

Given that C lacks exceptions, there is no practical (and portable)
way to forcibly unwind the stack. Even if something could be done with
longjump, for instance, there would be the issue of how your function
gets to do its cleanup.

Therefore, the simplest way for a Python C API function to propogate a
Python exception is by returning an error return value to the caller,
and keeping associated data in global variables. The caller then takes
on the responsibility for propogating the exception up to its caller
and so on. Which is precisely what Python appears to do. The caller
needs to check for the error value, do any neccessary cleanup, and
then propogate the error out of the function.

Python C API functions often return zero for error IIRC, so...

  if (PyString_AsString(strobj) == 0)  {  return 0;  }

Should ensure that the Python exception raised by PyString_AsString is
propogated correctly.


-- 
Steve Horne

steve at ninereeds dot fsnet dot co dot uk


From jack at performancedrivers.com  Thu Apr  8 14:47:49 2004
From: jack at performancedrivers.com (Jack Diederich)
Date: Thu, 8 Apr 2004 14:47:49 -0400
Subject: Special Method and Class
In-Reply-To: <c544a4$2gnk$1@biggoron.nerim.net>
References: <c544a4$2gnk$1@biggoron.nerim.net>
Message-ID: <20040408184749.GA5285@performancedrivers.com>

On Thu, Apr 08, 2004 at 08:07:01PM +0200, Yermat wrote:
> Hi all,
> 
> Why does special methods not work on class ? Or how to make them work ?
> Here a simple example :
> 
> >>> class Test(object):
> ...     def __repr__(cls):
> ...         return "<special %s>" % cls.__name__
> ...     __repr__ = classmethod(__repr__)
> ...
> >>> print repr(Test)
> <class '__main__.Test'>
This is your clue, this didn't print <special Test>
for the same reason the __iter__ does work below.
The special __method__'s only work for instances of
the class and not for the class itself.

>>> print repr(Test)
<class '__main__.Test'>
>>> print repr(Test())
<special Test>

> import weakref
> class RememberInstance(object):
>     instances = []
> 
>     def __init__(self,name):
>         self.name = name
>         self.__class__.instances.append(weakref.ref(self))
> 
>     def __iter__(cls):
>         for wref in cls.instances:
>             inst = wref()
>             if inst:
>                 yield inst
>     __iter__ = classmethod(__iter__)
> 
> 
> t1 = RememberInstance('t1')
> t2 = RememberInstance('t2')
> 
> for inst in RememberInstance:
>     print inst.name
> 

drop the __iter__ altogether and just iterate over the class's list

for (inst) in RememberInstance.instances:
  if (inst()): # the weakref hasn't expired
    print inst().name

It is much clearer and less magic to boot.

-jackdied



From ae  Mon Apr 12 16:43:42 2004
From: ae (A Evans)
Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2004 13:43:42 -0700
Subject: I am puzled about numbers
Message-ID: <107lvs6mree8pee@corp.supernews.com>

Hello I came across an interesting loop in math today
To me its interesting anyway I don't know if it will interest you

var = 999 % 333

print var
>>> 0

var = 9999 % 333
print var
>>> 9

var = 99999 % 333
print var
>>> 99

var = 999999 % 333
print var
>>> 0


var = 9999999 % 333
print var
>>> 9


var = 99999999 % 333
print var
>>> 99


var = 999999999 % 333
print var
>>> 0

and so on

I guess that just goes to show nine is a universal number
or am I just completely insane and everyone knows this already




From PeterAbel at gmx.net  Fri Apr  2 03:58:15 2004
From: PeterAbel at gmx.net (Peter Abel)
Date: 2 Apr 2004 00:58:15 -0800
Subject: splitting one dictionary into two
References: <20040401153103.GC4577@jsaul.de>
Message-ID: <21064255.0404020058.20a70197@posting.google.com>

jsaul <use_reply-to at empty.invalid> wrote in message news:<20040401153103.GC4577 at jsaul.de>...
> Hello all,
> 
> I have to split a dict into two dicts. Depending on their values,
> the items shall remain in the original dict or be moved to another
> one and at the same time be removed from the original dict.
> 
> OK, this is how I do it right now:
> 
>     dict1 = { "a":1, "b":3, "c":5, "d":4, "e":2 }
>     dict2 = {}
>     klist = []

klist is not necessary because key in dict1 will give you the
same but faster.

> 
>     for key in dict1:
>         if dict1[key] > 3: # some criterion
>             dict2[key] = dict1[key]
>             klist.append(key)
> 
>     for key in klist:
>         del dict1[key]
> 
>     print dict1
>     print dict2
> 
> That means that I store the keys of the items to be removed from
> the original dict in a list (klist) and subsequently remove the
> items using these keys.
> 
> Is there an "even more pythonic" way?
> 
> Cheers, jsaul

One solution could be:
>>> dict1 = { "a":1, "b":3, "c":5, "d":4, "e":2 }
# a little transfer-function, which deletes an item (k,v) in d and
# returns (k,v)
>>> transfer=lambda d,(k,v):[d.__delitem__(k)] and (k,v)
# transfer the items from one dict into a list and make a dict
# from it on the fly
>>> dict2=dict([transfer(dict1,(k,v)) for (k,v) in dict1.items() if v>3])
>>> dict1
{'a': 1, 'b': 3, 'e': 2}
>>> dict2
{'c': 5, 'd': 4}
>>> 

Regards
Peter


From Vincent.Raaijmakers at ge.com  Wed Apr  7 16:10:44 2004
From: Vincent.Raaijmakers at ge.com (Raaijmakers, Vincent (GE Infrastructure))
Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2004 15:10:44 -0500
Subject: Acceptance test framework
Message-ID: <971323274247EB44B9A01D0A3B424C850814D71D@FTWMLVEM02.e2k.ad.ge.com>

While 'Googling' and reading old news posts, I can remember that there were already previous questions posted. Of course, now I need them but can't find it anymore.

So, can someone give me a good reference to acceptance test frameworks completely written in python?
Would fit perfectly in our XP environment and Python test framework we already have.
 
I prefer to have a framework that is XML driven, but it is not required.....
Ton of stuff available in Java, but in Python not that much. At least, that tells my 1 hour search experience now.

If possible, like to hear some experience as well, pro's and con's.

Thanks in advance, and I will continue with the search as well.

Vincent



From h.b.furuseth at usit.uio.no  Sat Apr  3 19:05:32 2004
From: h.b.furuseth at usit.uio.no (Hallvard B Furuseth (nospam nospam))
Date: 04 Apr 2004 02:05:32 +0200
Subject: Python is faster than C
References: <DE1CF2B4FEC4A342BF62B6B2B334601E561FAC@opus.amorhq.net>
	<mailman.311.1081031736.20120.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <HBF.20040404bxup@bombur.uio.no>

Armin Rigo wrote:

>> Forcing enumerate to return a list would drag not only the entire
>> 40GB.csv into memory, but also the entire set of i. Using an iterator
>> in this case instead of a list *is* the optimization.
> 
> Yes, and I'm ranting against the idea that the programmer should be
> bothered about it, when it could be as efficient automatically.  From
> the programmer's perspective, iterators are mostly like a sequence
> that you can only access once and in order.  A better implementation
> can figure out for itself when you are only accessing this sequence
> once and in order.

It seems bad to me to teach programmers to depend on such optimizations
happening automatically.  Then people will sometimes depend on an
optimization at a time Python does not perform it, and the program will
unexpectedly try to consume 4G memory or whatever.  In particular if too
many such optimizations are added, so programmers lose track of which
optimizations are performed when.  Debugging such a problem will be no
fun either, for the same reason.

By all means use the same types and language constructs that already
exist instead of heaping on new ones, but add a way to say 'optimize
this!' and raise an exception if the construct is used in a way which
prevents the optimization.

-- 
Hallvard


From t-meyer at ihug.co.nz  Fri Apr 16 18:19:37 2004
From: t-meyer at ihug.co.nz (Tony Meyer)
Date: Sat, 17 Apr 2004 10:19:37 +1200
Subject: Difficulty Finding Python Developers
In-Reply-To: <1ED4ECF91CDED24C8D012BCF2B034F1305E11A7F@its-xchg4.massey.ac.nz>
Message-ID: <1ED4ECF91CDED24C8D012BCF2B034F13026F2BA3@its-xchg4.massey.ac.nz>

> We've worked hard to convince our company to migrate our core 
> applications to Python, and now we're looking for a Python 
> developer in Atlanta to handle a short-term (approx. 3 month) 
> project.  But our initial searches have been fairly 
> unsuccessful.
[...]
> Suggestions?

A couple of days later, it seems to me that a good way to advertise such a
position would be to post a message like this on c.l.p and enjoy the
interest generated by the resulting thread... <wink>

=Tony Meyer




From davidf at sjsoft.com  Thu Apr 22 03:57:48 2004
From: davidf at sjsoft.com (David Fraser)
Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2004 09:57:48 +0200
Subject: COM & Python
In-Reply-To: <mailman.900.1082615617.20120.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.752.1082375155.20120.python-list@python.org>	<l4CdnSThFfKwRB7dRVn-gw@comcast.com>
	<mailman.900.1082615617.20120.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <c67tir$smf$2@ctb-nnrp2.saix.net>

What about http://www.onlamp.com/pub/a/python/excerpts/chpt20/pythonwin.html
(from that book)?
Or have you tried wxPython (not COM but great)?

David

Anand K Rayudu wrote:
> Hi Larry,
> 
> Thanks for the suggestion, I have gone through the book, but 
> unfortunately nothing much is discussed about this topic.
> Being new to MFC i am finding it difficult to get started.
> I want to just create a dialog box, with my own controls and get the 
> python call backs for them.
>  can some one please share some example source code or any experience 
> regarding this.
> Any help will be a great start point for me.
> 
> Regards,
> Anand
> 
> 
> Larry Bates wrote:
> 
>>Get a copy of
>>Python Programming on Win32 By Mark Hammond, Andy Robinson
>>
>>This is the best starting point for you.
>>
>>Larry Bates
>>Syscon, Inc.
>>
>>"Anand K Rayudu" <anand at easi.soft.net> wrote in message
>>news:mailman.752.1082375155.20120.python-list at python.org...
>>  
>>
>>>Hi all,
>>>
>>>I want to use python with COM extension. I am successful using python as
>>>client.
>>>I could interact to my application through COM interfaces from python.
>>>
>>>I also want to use the win32ui layer, which wrapped all MFC user
>>>interface functionality.
>>>I am just wondering if some on can guide me with some documentation on
>>>using them.
>>>I want to know how the call backs are handled in particular.
>>>Any sample code will be a great start for me.
>>>If this is possible I can create any dialog boxes with any controls from
>>>python itself!! :-)
>>>And take advantage of MFC's View , scroll view and so on. Just exciting!!
>>>
>>>Thanks in advance,
>>>Anand
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>    
>>>
>>
>>
>>  
>>
> 


From paddy3118 at netscape.net  Mon Apr 19 02:50:17 2004
From: paddy3118 at netscape.net (Paddy McCarthy)
Date: 18 Apr 2004 23:50:17 -0700
Subject: Threats to the: Daily Python URL!
Message-ID: <2ae25c6b.0404182250.4c5bc870@posting.google.com>

I sent the following this morning:



-------- Original Message --------
Subject: 	Threats to the: Daily Python URL!
Date: 	Mon, 19 Apr 2004 07:50:04 +0100
From: 	Donald 'Paddy' McCarthy <paddy3118 at netscape.net>
To: 	daily at pythonware.com


Hi,
I read your 'Administrative note'  at http://www.pythonware.com/daily/ today

Please don't stop the excellent work that you do.
I don't know what threats and insults you suffered but I would like to 
ensure you that I for one read the column and value it.

Thanks,  Paddy.


From edcjones at erols.com  Sat Apr 17 12:21:30 2004
From: edcjones at erols.com (Edward C. Jones)
Date: Sat, 17 Apr 2004 12:21:30 -0400
Subject: Creating function object from text
Message-ID: <40815ab3$0$16479$61fed72c@news.rcn.com>

Suppose I have a piece of text that defines a function:

text ="""\
def fun(i):
     return i + 2
"""

How do I turn this into a function object, f, which can be called or 
passed around?


From newsuser at itgoesclick.com  Wed Apr 21 12:23:25 2004
From: newsuser at itgoesclick.com (Noah from IT Goes Click)
Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2004 16:23:25 GMT
Subject: This is very simple question
In-Reply-To: <b0457a31.0404210754.2a34b6be@posting.google.com>
References: <b0457a31.0404210754.2a34b6be@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <1exhc.198230$Ig.10697@pd7tw2no>

I'm not sure those are factors? But then again I never was good at math

for say 13 you could just count up by two and then find the largest 
number you can make of the twos and then move down until you find the 
next one and then add 1  say  you start with 13=[2,2,2,2,2,2,1] ?

then you know you have [12,1] 12 is a multiple of 2 or do you want 
powers? if you want powers you could make the nessisary logic adjustments

Why exactly do you want this anyways?



Eric wrote:
> I would want to obtain a list of factors (multiples of 2) given a
> prime number in python.
> 
> For example 13=[8,4,1], 5=[4,1], 7=[4,2,1], 15=[8,4,2,1]
> 
> I would appreciate a fuction which would do this.
> 
> Eric


From tim.golden at viacom-outdoor.co.uk  Wed Apr 21 04:11:47 2004
From: tim.golden at viacom-outdoor.co.uk (Tim Golden)
Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2004 09:11:47 +0100
Subject: how to calculate correctly the cluster size
Message-ID: <F1921F85572CB04D9F55B14BDC76B3E4434834@tdi_nt9.internal.viacom-outdoor.co.uk>

Josiah> The Windows 2k "Disk Administrator" software for 
Josiah> 2K always uses 4k cluster sizes by default.  
Josiah> I believe your varied cluster sizes are the 
Josiah> result of using Partition Magic to create them.

FWIW, the FORMAT command does offer the possibility of selecting
different cluster sizes. I've never used it personally (and I'm
not about to try it on this machine, either!)

<screen dump>

FORMAT volume [/FS:file-system] [/V:label] [/Q] [/A:size] [/C] [/X]
[...]

/A:size         

Overrides the default allocation unit size. Default settings
are strongly recommended for general use.
NTFS supports 512, 1024, 2048, 4096, 8192, 16K, 32K, 64K.
FAT supports 512, 1024, 2048, 4096, 8192, 16K, 32K, 64K,
(128K, 256K for sector size > 512 bytes).
FAT32 supports 512, 1024, 2048, 4096, 8192, 16K, 32K, 64K,
(128K, 256K for sector size > 512 bytes).

Note that the FAT and FAT32 files systems impose the
following restrictions on the number of clusters on a volume:

FAT: Number of clusters <= 65526
FAT32: 65526 < Number of clusters < 268435446

Format will immediately stop processing if it decides that
the above requirements cannot be met using the specified
cluster size.

NTFS compression is not supported for allocation unit sizes
above 4096.

</screen dump>


TJG


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From fumanchu at amor.org  Wed Apr 21 14:17:07 2004
From: fumanchu at amor.org (Robert Brewer)
Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2004 11:17:07 -0700
Subject: Stupid Regex Question
Message-ID: <DE1CF2B4FEC4A342BF62B6B2B334601E562036@opus.amorhq.net>

Fredrik Lundh wrote:
> Jonas Galvez wrote:
> 
> > And I do it by 'hand' hehe :-) I didn't do any 'top-posting' at all,
> 
> a few posts back, you "top-posted" a followup to your own post.

I do it by hand, too. But cf.
http://article.gmane.org/gmane.comp.python.general/339488, the post to
which I originally replied. ;)


FMC



From no.email at please.com  Sat Apr 10 10:37:59 2004
From: no.email at please.com (Stevie_mac)
Date: Sat, 10 Apr 2004 15:37:59 +0100
Subject: Static Data?
Message-ID: <2FTdc.56817$Id.5813@news-binary.blueyonder.co.uk>

I need to have a static class data member like c (see semi pseudo-like code below). How can I achieve this?

class object
    static _ID
    _ID = _ID + 1
    self.ID = _ID

class group
    . . .
    def AddObject(self,obj)
        objs.append(obj)
    def GetObject(self,iWhich)
        return objs[iWhich]

g = group()
o1=object()    #gets ID of 1
o2=object()    #gets ID of 2
o3=object()    #gets ID of 3
g.append(o2)   #store object with ID of 2
g.append(o3)   #store object with ID of 3
g.append(o1)   #store object with ID of 1

print g.GetObject(0).ID    #print ID of group object 0
print g.GetObject(1).ID    #print ID of group object 1
print g.GetObject(2).ID    #print ID of group object 2

>>> 2
>>> 3
>>> 1

obviously this code is duff, its the solution I need.

Cheers Stevie_Mac.




From db3l at fitlinxx.com  Fri Apr 23 15:13:11 2004
From: db3l at fitlinxx.com (David Bolen)
Date: 23 Apr 2004 15:13:11 -0400
Subject: Multi-threaded printing and IOErrors in Windows
References: <10nll1-rt5.ln1@home.rogerbinns.com>
	<c6acl7$7u8$1@ctb-nnrp2.saix.net>
	<ri4nl1-n9d.ln1@home.rogerbinns.com>
Message-ID: <uekqey0c8.fsf@fitlinxx.com>

"Roger Binns" <rogerb at rogerbinns.com> writes:

> When using py2exe, the stdout doesn't go anywhere anyway
> (it is gui app not a console app).
> 
> The bizarre thing is that the IOError is very infrequent,
> but very annoying when it happens.

Have you tried replacing sys.stdout with your own object that just
throws away anything it is given?  If you're not getting the output
anywhere anyway, it would avoid any attempt to actually use the
underlying I/O facilities.  You could conditionalize this code based
on whether or not you were running under py2exe.

I know there can be an issue under Windows under some startup
scenarios where you don't actually have opened O/S filesystem handles
for the handles underlying stdin/stdout (which can cause this sort of
problem), such as running as a service, but haven't normally had this
problem with GUI applications.  Although it may matter on how you are
starting the application (from a command line, the start menu, as a
service, etc...), since it will inherit its parent environment.

If that's the problem, I'd expect it to happen any time actual I/O was
attempted.  However, since there is probably some buffering going on
beneath the level of print within the underlying C library, maybe the
randomness of the error you are seeing is due to how long it takes to
print enough data to cause the C library to attempt to flush the data
to the underlying O/S filesystem handle.  If that were the case, doing
some test prints in your code of very long strings (the C buffer is
probably anywhere from 2-8K) should be able to reproduce the problem
more reliably.

-- David


From pirx at python.net  Sun Apr  4 22:56:07 2004
From: pirx at python.net (Christian Tismer)
Date: Mon, 05 Apr 2004 04:56:07 +0200
Subject: Fake post alert(was: Stackless Website down, Project gone,  
 I'm dead.)
In-Reply-To: <20040402195104.186481807.eric@zomething.com>
References: <20040402195104.186481807.eric@zomething.com>
Message-ID: <4070CAC7.80901@python.net>

Eric @ Zomething wrote:

> someone identified as "Christian Tismer" <tismer at stackless.com> wrote:
> 
> 
>>I don't deserve this honor, since I didn't write that nonsense.
>>But many thanks, anyway.
> 
> 
> per the headers rec'd-
> 
> this post:  gd31e.g.pppool.de ([80.185.211.30] 
> the fool post:  gd31e.g.pppool.de ([80.185.211.30]

Yes, it was the same company network. Not going into details...

ciao - chris




From junkmail at solumslekt.org  Tue Apr  6 08:12:53 2004
From: junkmail at solumslekt.org (Leif B. Kristensen)
Date: Tue, 06 Apr 2004 14:12:53 +0200
Subject: Up to 80 percent off on medication, Python.
References: <mailman.367.1081194568.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<1081199068.13889.0@eunomia.uk.clara.net>
	<r2xcc.211$_52.29@read3.inet.fi>
Message-ID: <Z6xcc.5738$zf6.70541@news4.e.nsc.no>

Timo Virkkala wrote:

> Garry Knight wrote:
>> In message <mailman.367.1081194568.20120.python-list at python.org>,
>> Moon D. Rungs wrote:
>>>Python, searching for a source to purchase medication?
>>>A moment's insight is sometimes worth a life's experience.
>>>The quality of decision is like the well-timed swoop of a falcon
>>>which enables it to strike and destroy its victim. There is a
>>>tendency for things to right themselves.
>> You should be *taking* your medication, not trying to sell it on to
>> others...
> 
> Especially to a language. Or a snake. Either way, it's a futile
> attempt. =)

Some need of medication for a flying circus might in principle be
conceivable.

regards,
-- 
Leif Biberg Kristensen
http://solumslekt.org/
Validare necesse est


From davidf at sjsoft.com  Wed Apr 21 06:47:20 2004
From: davidf at sjsoft.com (David Fraser)
Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2004 12:47:20 +0200
Subject: Python 2.3.3 super() behaviour
In-Reply-To: <40864ea6$0$25528$afc38c87@news.easynet.fr>
References: <40863bd7$0$25528$afc38c87@news.easynet.fr>
	<c65fbo$1q4$05$1@news.t-online.com>
	<40864674$0$24834$afc38c87@news.easynet.fr>
	<40864ea6$0$25528$afc38c87@news.easynet.fr>
Message-ID: <c65j4o$3me$1@ctb-nnrp2.saix.net>

super is not going to be helpful here, so why not call the X.__init__ 
functions explicitly?
Since you *need* multiple __init__ calls from the multiply-inherited 
class, super isn't going to work...

Nicolas Lehuen wrote:
> The only problem I have is that I want to build a multiple inheritance
> involving an object which does not cooperate, namely :
> 
> class T(object):
>     def __init__(self):
>         super(T,self).__init__()
> 
> class  TL(list,object):
>     def __init__(self)
>         super(TL,self).__init__()
> 
> In this case, T.__init__ is not called, because list.__init__ does not use
> super(). The only clean way to proceed is to change the inheritance order :
> TL(T,list). This way, both constructors are called.
> 
> Here is another example which exhibits the behaviour :
> 
> class A(object):
>     def __init__(self):
>         super(A,self).__init__()
>         print 'A'
> 
> class B(object):
>     def __init__(self):
>         print 'B'
> 
> class C(B,A):
>     def __init__(self):
>         super(C,self).__init__()
>         print 'C'
> 
> class D(A,B):
>     def __init__(self):
>         super(D,self).__init__()
>         print 'D'
> 
> 
>>>>C()
> 
> B
> C
> <__main__.C object at 0x008F3D70>
> 
>>>>D()
> 
> B
> A
> D
> <__main__.D object at 0x008F39F0>
> 
> The problem is that if you go further down the inheritance, the behaviour is
> even more complicated :
> 
> class E(object):
>     def __init__(self):
>         super(E,self).__init__()
>         print 'E'
> 
> class F(C,E):
>     def __init__(self):
>         super(F,self).__init__()
>         print 'F'
> 
> class G(D,E):
>     def __init__(self):
>         super(G,self).__init__()
>         print 'G'
> 
> 
>>>>F()
> 
> B
> C
> F
> <__main__.F object at 0x008F3D70>
> 
>>>>G()
> 
> B
> A
> D
> G
> <__main__.G object at 0x008F3EF0>
> 
> class H(E,C):
>     def __init__(self):
>         super(H,self).__init__()
>         print 'H'
> 
> class I(E,D):
>     def __init__(self):
>         super(I,self).__init__()
>         print 'I'
> 
> 
>>>>H()
> 
> B
> C
> E
> H
> <__main__.H object at 0x008F3E30>
> 
>>>>I()
> 
> B
> A
> D
> E
> I
> <__main__.I object at 0x008F3FD0>
> 
> So the conclusion is : never do that :). Another more constructive
> conclusion would be : always put the most cooperative classes first in the
> inheritance declaration, provided that it doesn't interfere with your needs.
> A class which has an uncooperative ancestor is less cooperative than a class
> which has only cooperative ancestors.
> 
> Regards,
> Nicolas
> 
> "Nicolas Lehuen" <nicolas.lehuen at thecrmcompany.com> a ?crit dans le message
> de news:40864674$0$24834$afc38c87 at news.easynet.fr...
> 
>>OK, I get it now, thanks.
>>
>>super() method calls should only be used for method involved in
>>diamond-shaped inheritance. This is logical since in this case the base
>>classe (from which the diamond-shaped inheritance starts) defines the
>>interface of the method.
>>
>>This solves another question I was asking myself about super() : "how can
> 
> it
> 
>>work when the method signature differ between B and C ?". Answer : the
>>method signature should not change because polymorphic calls would be
>>greatly endangered. The base class defines the signature of the method
> 
> which
> 
>>must be followed by all its children, this way super() can work properly.
>>
>>The base method signature is not enforced by Python, of course, but you'd
>>better respect it unless you get weird result in polymorphic calls.
>>
>>Regards,
>>Nicolas
>>
>>"Peter Otten" <__peter__ at web.de> a ?crit dans le message de
>>news:c65fbo$1q4$05$1 at news.t-online.com...
>>
>>>Nicolas Lehuen wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>Hi,
>>>>
>>>>I hope this is not a FAQ, but I have trouble understanding the
> 
> behaviour
> 
>>>>of the super() built-in function. I've read the excellent book 'Python
>>
>>in
>>
>>>>a Nutshell' which explains this built-in function on pages 89-90.
> 
> Based
> 
>>on
>>
>>>>the example on page 90, I wrote this test code :
>>>>
>>>>class A(object):
>>>>    def test(self):
>>>>        print 'A'
>>>>
>>>>class B(object):
>>>>    def test(self):
>>>>        print 'B'
>>>>
>>>>class C(A,B):
>>>>    def test(self):
>>>>        super(C,self).test()
>>>>        print 'C'
>>>>
>>>>print C.__mro__
>>>>c=C()
>>>>c.test()
>>>>
>>>>The output is :
>>>>(<class '__main__.C'>, <class '__main__.A'>, <class '__main__.B'>,
> 
> <type
> 
>>>>'object'>)
>>>>A
>>>>C
>>>>
>>>>Whereas I was expecting :
>>>>(<class '__main__.C'>, <class '__main__.A'>, <class '__main__.B'>,
> 
> <type
> 
>>>>'object'>)
>>>>A
>>>>B
>>>>C
>>>>
>>>>Was I wrong to expect this (based on what I've read ?)
>>>
>>>As soon as a test() method without the super(...).test() is reached, no
>>>further test methods will be invoked. Only the first in the list of base
>>>classes will be invoked. If I'm getting it right you have to do
> 
> something
> 
>>>like:
>>>
>>>class Base(object):
>>>    def test(self):
>>>        print "base"
>>>
>>>class D1(Base):
>>>    def test(self):
>>>        super(D1, self).test()
>>>        print "derived 1"
>>>
>>>class D2(Base):
>>>    def test(self):
>>>        super(D2, self).test()
>>>        print "derived 2"
>>>
>>>class All(D1, D2):
>>>    pass
>>>
>>>All().test()
>>>
>>>Here all cooperating methods have a super() call, and the base class
> 
> acts
> 
>>as
>>
>>>a showstopper to prevent that Python tries to invoke the non-existent
>>>object.test().
>>>
>>>Peter
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
> 
> 


From tzot at sil-tec.gr  Fri Apr  2 10:23:05 2004
From: tzot at sil-tec.gr (Christos TZOTZIOY Georgiou)
Date: Fri, 02 Apr 2004 18:23:05 +0300
Subject: An attempt at guessing the encoding of a (non-unicode) string
References: <c1sq60t7af0lgs1ovilg6ds220dkc0inpd@4ax.com>
	<ajfbc.21$V%3.7@nwrdny02.gnilink.net>
Message-ID: <671r60l5atp68s3auh4l8htoi6p1er1udp@4ax.com>

On Fri, 02 Apr 2004 15:05:42 GMT, rumours say that Jon Willeke
<j.dot.willeke at verizon.dot.net> might have written:

>Christos TZOTZIOY Georgiou wrote:
<snip>
>> 
>> This could be implemented as a function in codecs.py (let's call it
>> "wild_guess"), that is based on some pre-calculated data.  These
>> pre-calculated data would be produced as follows:
>...
<snip>

[Jon]
>The representative text would, in some circles, be called a training 
>corpus.  See the Natural Language Toolkit for some modules that may help 
>you prototype this approach:
>
>   <http://nltk.sf.net/>
>
>In particular, check out the probability tutorial.

Thanks for the hint, and I am browsing the documentation now.  However,
I'd like to create something that would not be dependent on external
python libraries, so that anyone interested would just download a small
module that would do the job, hopefully good.
-- 
TZOTZIOY, I speak England very best,
Ils sont fous ces Redmontains! --Harddix


From mogmios at mlug.missouri.edu  Wed Apr 28 23:44:08 2004
From: mogmios at mlug.missouri.edu (Michael)
Date: Wed, 28 Apr 2004 20:44:08 -0700
Subject: Is classless worth consideration
In-Reply-To: <1090r77d97k0tb1@news.supernews.com>
References: <g9k090lhocd1nbd7g230br6ooub113hjt6@4ax.com>
	<1090r77d97k0tb1@news.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <40907A08.6000604@mlug.missouri.edu>


>It's just occured to me that backing into that particular
>issue might work: use class methods and never bother
>with instantiating the classes at all. I'm not sure what
>we'd lose. (possibly descriptors?)
>
You can already use:

class test:
     x = 1

t = test
print t.x


Is there any way to to call a class method without making an instance of 
that class? To me that would be useful because you could mimic modules 
without having to create a sepperate file. Or is there already a way to 
do that?



From dwimansjur at hotmail.com  Fri Apr 30 07:36:42 2004
From: dwimansjur at hotmail.com (Dwi Sianto Mansjur)
Date: 30 Apr 2004 04:36:42 -0700
Subject: PYTHONSTARTUP and Cygwin
References: <9c1c646f.0404291107.5a6137dc@posting.google.com>
	<%Sckc.8205$f_5.1627@lakeread01>
Message-ID: <9c1c646f.0404300336.8208272@posting.google.com>

yes, it works after I use:
export PYTHONPATH=/home/Cherna/DevelopingTools

I set the shell/environment variable in Cywin.bat
I thought that will take car of the business.
But now it works, 

Thanks a lot.

Steve Holden <sholden at holdenweb.com> wrote in message news:<%Sckc.8205$f_5.1627 at lakeread01>...
> Dwi Sianto Mansjur wrote:
> > I tried to set up PYTHONPATH in cygwin but it doesn't work.
> > Any clue why ?
> > The following is my session.
> > 
> > $ echo $PYTHONPATH
> > /home/Cherna/86_DevelopingTools:/home/Cherna/87_TestingCorpus
> > 
> > $ echo $PYTHONSTARTUP
> > /home/Cherna/86_DevelopingTools:/home/Cherna/87_TestingCorpus
> > 
> > $ python
> > Python 2.3.3 (#1, Dec 30 2003, 08:29:25) 
> > [GCC 3.3.1 (cygming special)] on cygwin
> > Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
> > 
> >>>>import sys
> >>>>sys.path
> > 
> > ['', '/usr/lib/python23.zip', '/usr/lib/python2.3',
> > '/usr/lib/python2.3/plat-cygwin', '/usr/lib/python2.3/lib-tk',
> > '/usr/lib/python2.3/lib-dynload', '/usr/lib/python2.3/site-packages',
> > '/usr/lib/python2.3/site-packages/Numeric']
> > 
> > thanks.
> 
> You probably forgot to export them to put them in the environment?
> 
> $ export PYTHONPATH=/c/testwebapp:/c/Steve
> 
> sholden at DELLBOY /c/testwebapp/views
> $ echo $PYTHONPATH
> /c/testwebapp:/c/Steve
> 
> sholden at DELLBOY /c/testwebapp/views
> $ python
> Python 2.3.3 (#1, Dec 30 2003, 08:29:25)
> [GCC 3.3.1 (cygming special)] on cygwin
> Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>  >>> import sys
>  >>> sys.path
> ['', '/c/testwebapp', '/c/Steve', '/usr/lib/python23.zip',
> '/usr/lib/python2.3',  '/usr/lib/python2.3/plat-cygwin',
> '/usr/lib/python2.3/lib-tk', '/usr/lib/python
> 2.3/lib-dynload',
> '/usr/lib/python2.3/site-packages']
>  >>>
> 
> Certainly works for me, anyhow ...
> 
> regards
>   Steve


From rawbobb at hotmail.com  Mon Apr 12 09:17:41 2004
From: rawbobb at hotmail.com (bobb)
Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2004 13:17:41 GMT
Subject: A new OS
References: <107k441hitt2ld9@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <VFwec.16822$QQ6.15152@nwrdny02.gnilink.net>

This reminds me of the discount book I saw once
"How to build your own 32 bit operationg system"
I wouldn't bother. (I agree w/ peter hansen)

"A Evans" <ae> wrote in message news:107k441hitt2ld9 at corp.supernews.com...
> Hello Everyone I am working towards starting a project developing a new
> Operating System using the Python language (or a derivative thereof). As
> recommended on this forum I am asking if people are interested in
something
> like this and ask who would be willing to support a project this large.
>
> Any and all ideas are welcome this message is just to see what kind of
> support this project would recieve
>
> Cheers
>
> Andrew
>
>




From jepler at unpythonic.net  Sun Apr 11 18:35:14 2004
From: jepler at unpythonic.net (Jeff Epler)
Date: Sun, 11 Apr 2004 17:35:14 -0500
Subject: Is there a boolean(somestring) equivalent of int(somestring).
	bool('false') -> True
In-Reply-To: <KPENJIMKHJPNKOLFIHBNEEKGCGAA.vineet@eswap.com>
References: <KPENJIMKHJPNKOLFIHBNEEKGCGAA.vineet@eswap.com>
Message-ID: <20040411223514.GA30373@unpythonic.net>

The reason that
>>> bool('false')
returns True is the same reason that
>>> not 'false'
is False:  A non-empty string, when treated as a boolean, is true.

Changing the meaning of bool() is not likely to happen.

Here's one piece of code you might try to get the behavior you desire:

true_values = '1 yes true on'.split()
false_values = '0 no false off'.split()
def parse_boolean_value(s):
    if s in true_values: return True
    if s in false_values: return False
    raise ValueError

'i in seq' is just like checking whether any item in seq is equal to i.
If seq is a dictionary or a set (or defines __contains__), this test can
be a little more efficient, but the efficiency is unlikely to matter
when there are only 4 items.

Jeff



From peter at engcorp.com  Fri Apr  2 12:05:36 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Fri, 02 Apr 2004 12:05:36 -0500
Subject: Making the Zen of Python more useful
In-Reply-To: <c4k1hb$cdg$1@news-int.gatech.edu>
References: <106qp0uivlefo40@corp.supernews.com>
	<BPWdnVtfl7ma5PDdRVn-sw@powergate.ca>
	<c4jvc3$b0b$1@news-int.gatech.edu>
	<-5ydnTEmxfuZHvDdRVn-iQ@powergate.ca>
	<c4k1hb$cdg$1@news-int.gatech.edu>
Message-ID: <abqdneFj-dP8APDd4p2dnA@powergate.ca>

Andrew Henshaw wrote:

> In article <-5ydnTEmxfuZHvDdRVn-iQ at powergate.ca>, peter at engcorp.com says...
> my main
> problem was with the automatic printing of the text upon import.  Obviously, 
> that functionality needs to remain.  It would just be nice if there was 
> some clean way of (sometimes) using the module without it.

I don't think your particular use case was known to the developers
when they implemented that module.  Maybe you should suggest it as
an enhancement on Sourceforge.  Be sure to include a patch!  ;-)

-Peter


From hwlgw at hotmail.com  Mon Apr 26 03:56:13 2004
From: hwlgw at hotmail.com (Will Stuyvesant)
Date: 26 Apr 2004 00:56:13 -0700
Subject: AOP use cases
References: <84fc4588.0404140106.3fa0c55@posting.google.com>
	<slrnc7q1ss.1aa.alf@largo.fayauffre.org>
	<cb035744.0404141130.170f51c4@posting.google.com>
	<slrnc7sgat.vp.alf@largo.fayauffre.org>
	<cb035744.0404160442.2f0b1661@posting.google.com>
	<0pydnSB4WYuieuLdRVn-hQ@powergate.ca>
	<tyfbrlkv3ae.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
	<XYmdnVLB9rjbARrdRVn-vg@powergate.ca>
	<cb035744.0404220802.5adc5a5a@posting.google.com>
	<ywrekqebp7m.fsf@ioka.flux.utah.edu>
Message-ID: <cb035744.0404252356.167b4f75@posting.google.com>

> [Eric Eide, from the academics]
> 	Will> Forget about *real* real-world examples, these people just want
> 	Will> to get papers published.
> 
> Perhaps that explains IBM's excitement about aspect-oriented technologies, as
> reported here:
> 
> 	<http://news.com.com/2100-1008-5178164.html>
> 	<http://www.theserverside.com/articles/article.tss?l=AOSD2004-2>
> 	<http://www.sys-con.com/story/?storyid=44214>

Thank you for the links.

> 	Will> Usability is considered of minor impportance.
> 
> Perhaps that explains why AspectJ 1.1 received a Jolt Productivity Award in 
> the "Languages and Development Environments" category, as reported here:
> 
> 	<http://sdmagazine.com/jolts/>

AspectJ is for Java...

> 
> 	Will> I have come to the conclusion that AOP is nothing more than what
> 	Will> I expect from a decent programmer: a good, or at least
> 	Will> reasonable, design of software in the first place.
> 
> I would say that the *goal* of AOP is "nothing more" that what you would 
> expect from a good programmer: good implementation of good software 
> designs.  AOP is a an approach that augments existing approaches, such as
> OOP, for obtaining that goal.

One of my original points was that Java needs "AOP" to solve problems
imposed by the static typing system.  The links you provide are
Java-centric.  A better designed programming language, like the
dynamicall typed language Python, does not need "AOP".  It is up to
the software designer to make good designs, orthogonal where needed,
with separation of concerns, etc.


From michele.simionato at poste.it  Thu Apr 15 04:33:02 2004
From: michele.simionato at poste.it (Michele Simionato)
Date: 15 Apr 2004 01:33:02 -0700
Subject: Generic constructors and duplication of internal Python logic
References: <87ekqq41ya.fsf@pobox.com>
Message-ID: <95aa1afa.0404150033.79a53e1a@posting.google.com>

jjl at pobox.com (John J. Lee) wrote in message news:<87ekqq41ya.fsf at pobox.com>...
> I have to check things like:
> 
>  -are there too many positional arguments?
>  -any unexpected keyword arguments?
>  -multiple keyword arguments?
>  -any duplication between positional and keyword arguments?
> 
> etc.
> 
> Surely there's some easy way of making use of Python's internal logic
> here?  For some reason, I can't see how.  Can anybody see a way?
> 
> 
> John

Have you thought of performing the checks in the __call__ method
of a custom metaclass?


    Michele Simionato


From newsgroups at jhrothjr.com  Sun Apr  4 21:23:00 2004
From: newsgroups at jhrothjr.com (John Roth)
Date: Sun, 4 Apr 2004 21:23:00 -0400
Subject: Difference between default arguments and keyword arguments
References: <UmTbc.9904$NL4.4809@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net>
	<10713rf4bjl1bab@news.supernews.com>
	<roy-98D913.19232404042004@reader1.panix.com>
	<yD1cc.12064$yN6.3263@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <1071dast63t0g39@news.supernews.com>


"Edward Diener" <eldiener at earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:yD1cc.12064$yN6.3263 at newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net...
> Roy Smith wrote:
> > "John Roth" <newsgroups at jhrothjr.com> wrote:
> >> In going through the tutorial I also noticed that it explained
> >> the * notation, but not the ** notation. I think this also needs
> >> to be repaired - if one is in the tutorial, both should be.
> >
> > I suspect this will be an unpopular opinion, but I don't think either
> > belong in the tutorial.

I certainly wouldn't object to removing them; that's why I said "if".

> > I think the function of a tutorial is to introduce somebody to the
> > main features of the language, not cover every nook and cranny of the
> > syntax. The * and ** syntaxes (synti?), while certainly useful, are
> > also somewhat advanced topics.  I think their appearance in an
> > introductory document is misplaced.
>
> Along the same lines, I would like to add to that the explanation for
> classes in the tutorial is very poor since it assumes a much higher
> understanding of Python than a tutorial should about the language. A much
> simpler and more direct explanation regarding classes in Python would be
> much better. While I mostly got it because I have programmed extensively
in
> other OOP languages, I would expect your average Python beginner to be
> completely lost by much of the high-level explanation in that chapter.
> Whoever wrote it was much more interested in explaining the theory of
> classes in Python, to beginners no less !, than they were toward
explaining
> what classes are in Python and how to use them. And why iterators and
> generators are included in that chapter are beyond me. Also the tutorial
> mentions some usages of classes, in previous sections, before the
> explanation of classes occur, which I feel is definitely a mistake.

One of the things going on here is that the tutorial has grown over
the releases; it's not entirely clear what level of expertise is expected
for a reader.  As you say, there are topics that are fairly advanced.
On the other hand, since the libraries are shipped in source, and since
they do use all of those features, I think they should be mentioned in
some kind of tuorial.

John Roth
>
>




From peter9547 at btinternet.com  Fri Apr  2 06:37:49 2004
From: peter9547 at btinternet.com (Peter MacKenzie)
Date: Fri, 2 Apr 2004 11:37:49 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: emergent/swarm/evolutionary systems etc
References: <c4aeq8$92a$1@hercules.btinternet.com>
	<c4btjr$8il$1@titan.btinternet.com>
	<c4ccs2$l9j$1@news.service.uci.edu>
	<c4hjp4$dg6$1@sparta.btinternet.com>
	<c4ibr0$ngm$1@news.service.uci.edu>
	<c4jehj$6eh$1@titan.btinternet.com>
Message-ID: <c4jjad$ce4$1@titan.btinternet.com>

And how near that future was!  I've been going over the open/read/edit file
stuff again, trying to make it work, but I'm still having no success.  I'm
not sure if I'm missing something fundamental (like a frontal lobe), or if
there's some less worrying problem afoot, but this is what I've been trying.
I've put it through many iterations, dropping and adding brackets and
full-stops, playing around with the structure and grammar etc, but nothing
seems to work.

import sys

file = 'myfile.txt'
open(file,'r+b')
file.write("some string of what you want to write")
file.close()

When I run this, it returns the message:

Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "C:\Python23\openfile.py", line 5, in ?
    file.write()("some string of what you want to write")
AttributeError: 'str' object has no attribute 'write'

It must be something really simple that I've overlooked or failed to grasp,
but I've exhausted my willingness to continue experimenting and attempting
to reverse engineer code from the library modules.  Please help.  My brain
hurts.




From peter at engcorp.com  Fri Apr  2 07:03:11 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Fri, 02 Apr 2004 07:03:11 -0500
Subject: emergent/swarm/evolutionary systems etc
In-Reply-To: <c4jjad$ce4$1@titan.btinternet.com>
References: <c4aeq8$92a$1@hercules.btinternet.com>
	<c4btjr$8il$1@titan.btinternet.com>
	<c4ccs2$l9j$1@news.service.uci.edu>
	<c4hjp4$dg6$1@sparta.btinternet.com>
	<c4ibr0$ngm$1@news.service.uci.edu>
	<c4jehj$6eh$1@titan.btinternet.com>
	<c4jjad$ce4$1@titan.btinternet.com>
Message-ID: <hNidnfamk7sdy_DdRVn-ig@powergate.ca>

Peter MacKenzie wrote:

> import sys

This part is useless for the four lines that follow, but
of course you'll need it if you ever want to access anything
that really is in the sys module...

> file = 'myfile.txt'

Here the name "file" is bound to a string.

> open(file,'r+b')

Here you call a builtin and pass it two strings.  Functions
can "never" modify what the arguments are bound to, so this
cannot modify the name "file" to something else.  Clearly not
what you intended.  Note that open() really *returns* the newly
created file object, so you should be assigning the result as:

file = open(filename, 'r+b')

Of course, now you need a "filename" name, which is what the
first line should be doing:

   filename = 'myfile.txt'  # instead of "file = ..."

> file.write("some string of what you want to write")
> file.close()

These two will now work.

Why don't you run through the Python tutorial first, since these
are pretty basic questions, some of which will be resolved if you
go the defined routes first.

There are also other good Python/newbie resources linked to from
the web site if you go there and poke around.

-Peter


From __peter__ at web.de  Sun Apr 11 04:16:19 2004
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Sun, 11 Apr 2004 10:16:19 +0200
Subject: Static Data?
References: <2FTdc.56817$Id.5813@news-binary.blueyonder.co.uk>
	<lqXdc.58151$Id.15238@news-binary.blueyonder.co.uk>
Message-ID: <c5ausj$qfb$01$1@news.t-online.com>

Stevie_mac wrote:

> In Jeffs solution, Is self._ID the same variable as _ID (declared
> immediately after class Counted). Is there 3 _IDs? If you have the time,

Jeff Epler's code with annotations:

class Counted:
    _ID = 0 # set the class attribute; same as Counted._ID = 0

    def __init__(self):
        Counted._ID += 1 # increment the class attribute
        self._ID = Counted._ID # set the instance attribute to the 
                               # current value of the class attribute

> could you explain (nothing fancy, just brief) the meaning of declaring
> variables in different
> locations (like self, below class, as part of class, in a class def). 
> This would be greatly appreciated.
> 
> and Peters solution
> class Object:
>     _ID = 1
>     def __init__(self):
>         self.ID = Object._ID
>         Object._ID += 1
> Is Object._ID a class instance variable and self.ID a 'shared' class
> variable

This is basically the same as Jeff's. I just chose different names for the
class attribute (_ID) and instance attribute (ID).

If you set an attribute in the class,

class Object:
    clsattr = 1

that is the same as

class Object:
    pass
Object.clsattr = 1

If you set an instance attribute you always need the instance:

inst = Object()
inst.attr = 2

Inside a method it's the same, only the instance will most likely be named
self.

class Object:
    def method(self, newvalue):
        self.attr = newvalue

Now for attribute lookup:

inst.attr

will first look up attr in the instance, and if it's not there, it will fall
back to the class:

>>> class Object:
...     pass
...
>>> Object.attr = "in class"
>>> inst = Object()
>>> inst.attr
'in class'
>>> inst.attr = "in instance"
>>> inst.attr
'in instance'

The class attribute is still there, only "shaded" bye the instance
attribute:

>>> Object.attr
'in class'

Now let's delete the instance attribute:

>>> del inst.attr
>>> inst.attr
'in class'

The class attribute becomes visible again.

Once you have understood the above, classmethods are just a another way to
access the class instead of the instance. The advantage over an explicit
use of the class identifier is that with inheritance they always provide
the actual class: 

>>> class Object(object):
...     def method(cls):
...             print cls.__name__
...     method = classmethod(method)
...
>>> class Sub(Object):
...     pass
...
>>> Object().method()
Object
>>> Sub().method()
Sub

Peter



From google0 at lazytwinacres.net  Sat Apr  3 08:02:32 2004
From: google0 at lazytwinacres.net (Dang Griffith)
Date: Sat, 03 Apr 2004 13:02:32 GMT
Subject: emergent/swarm/evolutionary systems etc
References: <c4aeq8$92a$1@hercules.btinternet.com>
	<c4btjr$8il$1@titan.btinternet.com>
	<c4ccs2$l9j$1@news.service.uci.edu>
	<c4hjp4$dg6$1@sparta.btinternet.com>
	<c4ibr0$ngm$1@news.service.uci.edu>
	<c4jehj$6eh$1@titan.btinternet.com>
	<b58bdd20aeb4b31cdcfc2a4fc1054a3a@news.teranews.com>
	<c4k63o$bss$1@hercules.btinternet.com>
Message-ID: <2de080a12a9c6c488149f4b031bb46be@news.teranews.com>

On Fri, 2 Apr 2004 16:58:32 +0000 (UTC), "Peter MacKenzie"
<peter9547 at btinternet.com> wrote:

>Spreadsheets do seem to be an attractive option, but the benefits are not
>without their detractors:
...
>-Require no/limited skill acquisition (being familiar and honest with my own
>psychological composition, I know that the only way I'm likely to develop a
>fair degree of programming competence is if there's a driving pressure to do
>so.  It's something I'd like to learn, and this gives me the excuse/leverage
>to do so.)

Sorry I can't help you with that one--it's for you to decide.

>Unknowns:  Time series graphical output would be necessary, even if it's
>very primitive.  Do you know if the spreadsheet could be set up in such a
>way that cells would change colour depending on their values, or if the
>graph making facilities would be able to create reasonable representations
>of said values so that a series of graphs would be capable of showing up
>phenomena with fluidic (wavelike, turbulent, etc) characteristics?

I don't know what spreadsheet you're using, but I know Microsoft Excel
support conditional coloring.

>I'm afraid the temptation to take the hard route my prove too great
>(psychological paradoxes: I always feel good about feeling so terrible about
>these things after I've passed the point of no return in the undertaking,
>and the enormity of the task at hand sinks in - it's a whole adrenalin
>thing), but I'd still like to make a comprehensive assessment of my options
>before I commit to anything.

It's a complex project.  I'm pretty sure a spreadsheet is capable of
performing the calculations, but it may not be the best to provide
the graphical result you're looking for.  On the other hand, maybe it
could generate the numbers for the graphics, and then you could have
a second program that reads the numbers to perform only the 
graphics operations.

I agree with Josiah--two months is tight.  I suggest if you're more 
comfortable with a spreadsheet, start with a minimal "program" in
the spreadsheet.  Realize that writing a python program will
require you to make many of the same design / algorithm decisions
as the spreadsheet.

    --dang


From donn at u.washington.edu  Wed Apr 28 17:21:18 2004
From: donn at u.washington.edu (Donn Cave)
Date: Wed, 28 Apr 2004 14:21:18 -0700
Subject: Why we will use obj$func() often
References: <d2Uhc.22272$dZ1.1600@fed1read04> <84Uhc.22278$dZ1.5087@fed1read04>
	<mailman.927.1082665370.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<8AWhc.23114$dZ1.11070@fed1read04> <40883BFE.B381518A@alcyone.com>
	<27_hc.23801$dZ1.2716@fed1read04> <40887145.789A2FE8@alcyone.com>
	<7cki80hj976bia36lhf9er97v073o1pqvm@4ax.com>
	<w8dic.28710$dZ1.11206@fed1read04> <ulXiAls/KH1K089yn@the-wire.com>
	<lkfic.29767$dZ1.17301@fed1read04>
	<donn-66132E.15345723042004@nntp3.u.washington.edu>
	<PLhic.30493$dZ1.22063@fed1read04>
	<c6huj3$c3s3f$1@ID-169208.news.uni-berlin.de>
	<u8zjc.7394$Qy.127@fed1read04>
	<c6ni3j$e0vbb$1@ID-169208.news.uni-berlin.de>
	<5vJjc.13116$Qy.1954@fed1read04>
	<donn-FB76CA.11024928042004@nntp3.u.washington.edu>
	<52Ujc.16275$Qy.3111@fed1read04>
Message-ID: <donn-CF90D7.14211828042004@nntp3.u.washington.edu>

In article <52Ujc.16275$Qy.3111 at fed1read04>,
 "Mark Hahn" <mark at prothon.org> wrote:

> Donn Cave wrote:
> > In article <5vJjc.13116$Qy.1954 at fed1read04>,
> 
> > Well, in a sense this (&var) is a simplistic avoidance of scope.  Scope
> > is how unqualified identifiers are resolved.
> 
> Scope is a noun, not a verb.  To me a scope is just a namespace defined by
> syntax.  There are many ways to specify what scope a var belongs in, and
> qualification using &var is just as valid as any other.

Whatever you want scope to mean, that's up to you, but let's
observe that whatever you want to call it, programming languages
have in common a need to resolve multiple occurrences of an
identifier without syntactical aids, and some of them manage
to do it just fine in a fairly complex code structure.

> > As I said there, declaration isn't an interesting part of that,
> > but the idea that declarations are "not Pythonic" strikes me as
> > particularly absurd (not to mention just seeing you, of all people,
> > offer this criticism.)
> 
> I didn't mean to be critical, just stating pros and cons.
> 
> > What is "class"?
> 
> Be fair.  You know that I didn't throw out classes on a capricious whim.

I actually had forgotten that you threw out class, that's not
my point.  Declarations are "Pythonic", because Python code is
necessarily full of declarations.  When you reject a solution
because it's "not Pythonic", that is structurally a criticism.
I don't care how you rationalize your preferences in these
matters, really, and it might be that you would do better to
leave that part alone and just state your preferences.  There's
nothing more inflammatory in a place like this than an absurd
proposition.

> I go through crazy moments where I consider every possibility and throw out
> ideas.  I considered the idea of replacing def with func (def is misnamed
> after all) and that proposal lasted about 30 minutes.  Another idea that
> lasted about 45 minutes was changing __init__ to init.  Please don't hold
> anything against me during these trial-idea times.  Wait until you see the
> final Prothon before you criticize my wanton destruction of the Python
> heritage.  It also wouldn't hurt to hear you voice on the Prothon mailing
> list influencing the outcome.

You can't afford to indulge my tastes in programming languages,
because the result would be utterly foreign to Python users.
I use Python because it works.  Roughly the 2.0 subset of the
language is all I know and seem to need to know to make programs
work.  When I dream of a better language, it's not pasting new
gimmicks on Python, it's really a radically different direction.
OOP languages are today's FORTRAN.

   Donn Cave, donn at u.washington.edu


From dippyd at yahoo.com.au  Wed Apr 14 04:23:12 2004
From: dippyd at yahoo.com.au (Steve)
Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2004 18:23:12 +1000
Subject: Method for providing a trail period on a program
References: <L8idnY07QbRfNPHdRVn-hw@comcast.com>
	<slrnc6pcmh.1f2.bignose-hates-spam@rose.localdomain.fake>
Message-ID: <407CF4F0.4020604@yahoo.com.au>

Ben Finney wrote:
> On Thu, 1 Apr 2004 17:46:12 -0600, Larry Bates wrote:
> 
>>I'm searching for a good way to provide a "trail period" (something
>>like 90 days) for a commercial application that I'm writing.  I'd like
>>something that can easily stop working 90 days after installation.
> 
> 
> Why do you want to break your user's programs to gain money?  Will they
> not pay for your work without their programs breaking?  What does that
> say about the value of your work?

In fairness, it might not be Larry's work that he isn't 
confident about, but the honesty of his customers.

Larry, how foolproof do you want this trial period to 
be? How sophisticated are your clients? How motivated 
are they to crack it? What are your motives for wanting 
to disable the program? Are you sure your business 
model is the best way?

For example, perhaps you would be better off 
distributing a free version with reduced functionality, 
with the additional functionality only in the non-free 
version.

If you want a foolproof mechanism for disabling the 
program after the trial period, then Python is probably 
not the language for you. Actually, a sufficiently 
motivated hacker will find some way to crack your 
protection no matter what you do.

Besides, there is one other thing you should consider. 
You're not Microsoft. Your biggest problem isn't people 
ripping you off by not paying for your software, it is 
that people don't even know your software exists. 
Perhaps it is worth letting people make free copies in 
order to spread the word. Don't think of it as being 
ripped off, think of it as advertising.

Just a few thoughts for you to consider.


-- 
Steven D'Aprano









From cbrown at metservice.com  Wed Apr  7 17:01:10 2004
From: cbrown at metservice.com (Colin Brown)
Date: Thu, 8 Apr 2004 09:01:10 +1200
Subject: shutil.move, permission denied, why ?
References: <Xns94C3B42DA41DEstefninalussinanorg@212.27.42.68>
Message-ID: <40746c0a$1@news.iconz.co.nz>

"St?phane Ninin" <stefnin at alussinan.org> wrote in message
news:Xns94C3B42DA41DEstefninalussinanorg at 212.27.42.68...
...
> I just do not understand what could cause this "permissions denied" for
this
> file. Any idea of what stupid thing I could have done somewhere in the
code
> that could cause that ?
...
> Stephane Ninin

Hi St?phane

Some time ago I had a "permission denied" problem on Windows that I finally
tracked down to os.system duplicating open handles at the creation instance!
The method I used to locate the problem area was by having python fire off
an instance of handle.exe (freely available from www.sysinternals.com) when
the permission error occurred to see what else had the file open.

Colin Brown
PyNZ





From bkelley at wi.mit.edu  Tue Apr 27 10:08:28 2004
From: bkelley at wi.mit.edu (Brian Kelley)
Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2004 10:08:28 -0400
Subject: Is there a Python library that packs binary data into one file?
In-Reply-To: <85b54e91.0404261301.69d5c1e9@posting.google.com>
References: <85b54e91.0404261301.69d5c1e9@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <408e698c$0$573$b45e6eb0@senator-bedfellow.mit.edu>

Jacob H wrote:
> Hello all,
> 
> Today I began writing a utility script that takes given binary files
> and puts them all into one datafile. My idea is to be able to access
> any binary data I want by indexing the datafile, e.g.
> wanted_image_data = datafileobj[IMAGE_DATA]. The purpose is to hide
> external image files from the user in a simple game I'm writing.

In the vein of giving a man a fish: if you are using python 2.2+

import dbhash, zlib

db = dbhash.open("foo.db", 'w')

db['hi'] = zlib.compress("my dog has fleas")
print zlib.decompress(db['hi'])

for more help
type

help(dbhash)

at the interpreter

In the vein of teaching a man to fish, read the library reference here 
for a lot of python goodies:

http://python.org/doc/2.3.3/lib/

Brian


From mark at prothon.org  Fri Apr 23 14:07:20 2004
From: mark at prothon.org (Mark Hahn)
Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2004 11:07:20 -0700
Subject: Why we will use obj$func() often
References: <d2Uhc.22272$dZ1.1600@fed1read04><84Uhc.22278$dZ1.5087@fed1read04>	<mailman.927.1082665370.20120.python-list@python.org><8AWhc.23114$dZ1.11070@fed1read04>	<mailman.939.1082697809.20120.python-list@python.org><no4ic.26268$dZ1.11413@fed1read04>
	<mailman.948.1082710758.20120.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <sXcic.28630$dZ1.20194@fed1read04>


"Mike C. Fletcher" <mcfletch at rogers.com> wrote ...

> $ is basically a character as far as glyphs go, it's a
> full-height glyph with ascenders and descenders, is very similar to a
> capital S, and generally makes reading code much harder as it obscures
> word-shape; .this or even self.this is much easier to read because you
> can pick out the words using your learned vocabulary of word-shapes.

Well I have a problem now.  I gave people on my mailing list a choice
between $var, `var, ~var,  and ^var.  The current tally is four votes for
$var and none for any of the others.  According to your criteria, $var is
the worst and ~var should be the best.  Am I correct?




From mailsecurity at drugstore.com  Mon Apr  5 22:55:16 2004
From: mailsecurity at drugstore.com (mailsecurity at drugstore.com)
Date: Mon, 5 Apr 2004 19:55:16 -0700
Subject: Symantec Mail Security detected that you sent a message containing
	prohibited attachment (SYM:20842306390302457264)
Message-ID: <1d7d01c41b82$96e75d20$8406000a@corp.drugstore.com>

Subject of the message: Re: hi
Recipient of the message: "aboutrx at drugstore.com" <aboutrx at drugstore.com>






From mgibson at tripwire.com  Thu Apr 15 18:50:00 2004
From: mgibson at tripwire.com (uebertester)
Date: 15 Apr 2004 15:50:00 -0700
Subject: md5.hexdigest() converting unicode string to ascii
Message-ID: <77b925de.0404151450.5c1f720a@posting.google.com>

I'm trying to get a MD5 hash of a registry key value on Windows 2000
Server.  The registry value is a string which is stored as a unicode
string.  I can get the registry key value and pass it to md5 via
update(), however, hexdigest() returns a hash value for the ascii
equivalent of the unicode string.  Not the hash of the unicode string
itself.  I've verified this by creating a text file containing an
ascii form of the string and one containing a unicode form of the
string.  The hash returned by md5.hexdigest() matches that when I run
md5sum on the ascii file.

Here is the code I'm using:

import _winreg
from md5 import md5

x=_winreg.ConnectRegistry(None,_winreg.HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE)
y= _winreg.OpenKey(x,
r"SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\URL\DefaultPrefix")

sValue = _winreg.QueryValueEx(y,"")
print sValue

m = md5()
m.update(unicode(sValue[0]))
MD5 = m.hexdigest()

print "%s \n%d" % (sValue[0], sValue[1])
print MD5

_winreg.CloseKey(y)
_winreg.CloseKey(x)

Any help would be appreciated.


From vincent at visualtrans.de  Tue Apr 27 16:05:17 2004
From: vincent at visualtrans.de (vincent wehren)
Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2004 22:05:17 +0200
Subject: linux-python arrow-key problem when in interactive interpreter
In-Reply-To: <mailman.54.1083089659.25742.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.54.1083089659.25742.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <c6meds$3qi$1@news4.tilbu1.nb.home.nl>

Gabriel Cooper wrote:
> I'm running redhat 9 with python 2.3.3 and when I'm in gnome-terminal 
> and inside the python interpreter I can't use the arrow keys anymore. 
> They simply show ^[[A, ^[[B, etc.

This might indicate that Python was built without readline.
Also see:
http://groups.google.nl/groups?hl=nl&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&selm=87lluaeiy9.fsf%40pobox.com

HTH,

-- 
Vincent Wehren <vincent at visualtrans.de>
http://www.visualtrans.de








From andymac at bullseye.apana.org.au  Mon Apr  5 06:44:08 2004
From: andymac at bullseye.apana.org.au (Andrew MacIntyre)
Date: Mon, 5 Apr 2004 20:44:08 +1000 (EST)
Subject: Type checking inside a C extension
In-Reply-To: <c4qdfh$2l5b73$1@ID-180326.news.uni-berlin.de>
References: <c4qdfh$2l5b73$1@ID-180326.news.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <20040405204039.Q91458@bullseye.apana.org.au>

On Mon, 5 Apr 2004, Jon Perez wrote:

> Is there a less expensive way to check the type, or somehow
> avoid a crashing situation (i.e. an exception gets properly raised)
> without calling PyLong_Check() and PyString_Check() the elements
> of each and every tuple?

It might be expensive, but perhaps PyArg_ParseTuple() might be able to do
the decoding of your tuples more neatly than the various PyXX_Check()
calls.

--
Andrew I MacIntyre                     "These thoughts are mine alone..."
E-mail: andymac at bullseye.apana.org.au  (pref) | Snail: PO Box 370
        andymac at pcug.org.au             (alt) |        Belconnen  ACT  2616
Web:    http://www.andymac.org/               |        Australia



From gry at ll.mit.edu  Fri Apr 16 11:08:57 2004
From: gry at ll.mit.edu (george young)
Date: 16 Apr 2004 08:08:57 -0700
Subject: Fast Data Comparison (dict v. list. v string)
References: <c5k8rp$ql6$1@news01.intel.com>
Message-ID: <78b6a744.0404160708.653ae9a8@posting.google.com>

"Scott Brady Drummonds" <scott.b.drummonds.nospam at intel.com> wrote in message news:<c5k8rp$ql6$1 at news01.intel.com>...
> Hi, everyone,
> 
> I'm a relative novice at Python and am working on some optimizations in my
> first Python project.  At its core, this tool I'm writing needs to perform
> many comparisons to fixed-size lists of fixed-length strings.
> 
> Currently, my implementation uses dictionaries to store each string.  I
> maintain a separate "key-mapping" dictionary that maps keys from one
> dictionary to the other.  Then, all I have to do to compare the two
> dictionaries is as follows:
>   for metaKey in keyMap.keys():
>     if dict1[metaKey] != dict2[keyMap[metaKey]]:
>       #  Do some processing
> 
> Since the sizes of the dictionaries never change, I tried implementing this
> using lists.  The solution looks something like this (and assumes that a
> pre-processing phase has sorted the contents of each list so their indexes
> are the same):
>   for i in len(list1):
>     if list1[i] != list2[i]:
>       #  Do some processing
> 
> As it turns out, this implementation appears to be about 33% faster than the
> dictionary-based one.  Now, assuming that the datum being stored at each
> index can fit into one character, I could do a string-based implementation
> like this:
>   for i in len(string1):
>     if string1[i] != string[i]:
>       #  Do some processing
> 
> This last solution actually runs about the same as the dictionary, which
> takes 50% longer than the list implementation.
> 
> Now, my questions are:
> 1)  Does anyone have another suggestion as to how I can organize these data
> so that I can compare many elements many times?
> 2)  Is there a string comparison operator that will return which indexes
> have different values?  Maybe it would be faster than the iterative
> comparison approach for the third implementation.
> 3)  Since my data are changing between the successive executions of the code
> snippets above, I need a way of having the other parts of the program update
> it.  But, it appears that strings are constant as I can't assign individual
> characters with "string1[i] = '0'".  Is there any way around this?

You might also take a look at psyco: http://psyco.sourceforge.net.  It is
very easy to use, non-intrusive, and claims large performance improvements for
code like this.  I have hopes that things like psyco can let us keep code
in the simplest and *clearest* form, and let external optimization mechanisms
make it fast enough when needed.

-- George Young


From has.temp2 at virgin.net  Fri Apr 30 12:55:32 2004
From: has.temp2 at virgin.net (has)
Date: 30 Apr 2004 09:55:32 -0700
Subject: What is good about Prothon?
References: <bniq80hiib0gauiltuntk9jvia2getbnj4@4ax.com>
	<nxdjc.400$Qy.363@fed1read04>
	<m0ps8092jss5mhpopkbj0a4hg0m0rlppqh@4ax.com>
	<vDvjc.5555$Qy.2995@fed1read04>
	<108t2tlo06j8vb9@corp.supernews.com>
	<hzwjc.6087$Qy.2366@fed1read04>
	<69cbbef2.0404281446.4e0ab52e@posting.google.com>
	<ZHXjc.17225$Qy.13377@fed1read04>
	<69cbbef2.0404291609.72d391db@posting.google.com>
	<Awlkc.36778$Qy.19874@fed1read04>
Message-ID: <69cbbef2.0404300855.4dce5e5@posting.google.com>

"Mark Hahn" <mark at prothon.org> wrote in message news:<Awlkc.36778$Qy.19874 at fed1read04>...
> has wrote:
> 
> > In Prothon, b and c derive state and behaviour from a
> > unless/until it's modified locally (ie on b or c). Changes made to one
> > may or may not show up in another depending on the derived
> > relationship and subsequent changes*,
> 
> I told you before that we had a Self-like copy and asked you then if using
> that would make you happy.  You never answered that question.  Now you've
> posted an example that ignores the Prothon copy (yes, it is spelled exactly
> like the AS copy :)

See my other post for the reason why I did this (yes, it was quite
intentional).


But to answer your question directly: no, simply adding a copy()
operation (the "trying to please everybody, and ultimately pleasing
no-one" strategy) won't make me happy; I have no use for another C++.


You might think I'm merely being obtuse; trying to give you a bad day
just for jollies. But no; and perhaps a little digression will help
explain why...

Right now you should be sketching out lots of rough ideas quickly and
in the large, critiquing them, throwing some away, experimenting
further with others, critiquing the results of those tests, revising,
reviewing, refactoring those ideas, compacting and simplifying them,
stripping them down as hard as you can to see just how far you can
simplify them, reversing direction and changing tack; and not letting
yourself get blocked in to a single developmental rat-run where you
can only proceed forward on a single, predetermined path.

Or, in short, for every feature added: 1. justify its addition; and 2.
find at least one other feature - preferably more - that can't
adequately justify theirs and strip them right back out again.

This is another lesson I learnt in art school, btw: when working in
clay, one should always build up. Add a bit of clay, step back,
analyse the result. If you add too much or put it in the wrong place,
don't try to carve it flat or smear it into position; instead, cut the
whole lot right back 'to the bone' and start building it up again.

For me, who learnt this lesson very quickly, it was rather depressing
watching the rest of the class, who didn't, plod away day after day,
fighting a losing battle for hours on end with a material they just
couldn't seem to understand as it turned into a buttery caricature
instead of a portrait head.

Meantime, I'm scooting around the room like a madman, never standing
more than a minute or two in front of my piece before stepping back,
or walking away, or going to get drinks from the vending machine. And
each morning I came in, I'd take a long look with fresh eyes at where
I'd got to the previous day, and if I didn't like it, out came the big
knife as I'd chop great gobs off and throw them back in the clay bin.

I think by the end of that class I'd produced two pretty decent busts,
and had already made a start on the third. The better of the two I
completed within three afternoons too, with the bulk of it done in two
and the third spend mostly idling around and occasionally diving in to
tweak a feature here or there.


Now, wood and stone carving I suck at. You get one chance to get it
right, and if you screw up just once you have to start all over again.
Such fear of failure made me nervous and timid - which, considering
the price of each fresh bit of stone, maybe wasn't entirely
unsurprising - and the results were insipid and flat and utterly,
utterly boring.

But clay I love. It rewards excitement and adventure, and encourages
risk-taking and experimentation; the more bold and daring you are, the
more it becomes alive. If you screw up along the way there's no
permanent loss, and the valuable lessons you gain from doing so _far_
outweigh the cost of any time spent. So you work fast and loose, try
lots of different ideas quickly to see where they might go, screw up
often and learn as much by your mistakes as your successes.


Code is like clay. It's so frustrating for me to see programmers treat
it like stone. If you were in my art class I'd hand you a pile of
newsprint and box of charcoal and have you do 30-second sketches for
an hour. Then another hour doing five-minute drawings. And I can
guarantee the if I then set you to do a finished drawing in the
remaining hour the final result would be far, far better than if I'd
given you a whole day - or even week - to work on it.

--

I'll see if I can get around to answering some of your other questions
later. Meantime, I hope you can find a little time to spend pondering
the above. Who knows, maybe even put what implementation you've done
aside for a bit, and go stroll round the room for a while... maybe
catch some fresh perspective - even surprise yourself. :)


(p.s. My new favourite phrase for the week: "Premature implementation
is the root of all evil." Hope nobody minds!;-)


From martin at v.loewis.de  Wed Apr 14 16:31:21 2004
From: martin at v.loewis.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?=22Martin_v=2E_L=F6wis=22?=)
Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2004 22:31:21 +0200
Subject: Does Python compete with Java?
In-Reply-To: <mailman.597.1081904808.20120.python-list@python.org>
References: <8b336527.0404051337.51bb4a1b@posting.google.com>	<c4taac$2lg0bc$1@ID-169208.news.uni-berlin.de>	<e838aa6e.0404071426.7192e8e4@posting.google.com>	<slrnc79idf.hij.ramen@lackingtalent.com>	<e838aa6e.0404130748.1d8e1ddf@posting.google.com>	<mailman.585.1081876373.20120.python-list@python.org>	<c5hmtq$6eh$06$1@news.t-online.com>
	<mailman.597.1081904808.20120.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <c5k72f$hod$06$1@news.t-online.com>

Jakub Fast wrote:
> Is there really no chance this goes into python on an "if you really 
> have to do this, be warned, but here are the tools" basis?

Certainly. Write a PEP, and an implementation.

Alternatively, write a different parser front end that converts your
enriched language into standard Python.

Regards,
Martin



From as at ore.com  Wed Apr 21 06:25:00 2004
From: as at ore.com (mic)
Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2004 12:25:00 +0200
Subject: .net interoperability
Message-ID: <c65i65$1c5q$1@news.atman.pl>

I'm trying to expose some of my code to the "outer world" components,
specifically applications written in .NET (Visual Studio) technology. But as
far as it is I could not find the proper way to go:

- at first I thought about SOAP and webservices, but available solutions
(Twisted Matrix, ZSI, SOAPpy) seem to be well... immature. For example I was
not able to generate WSDL file, so I cannot expose information about the
services I have. This is required by Visual Studio and generally I think
it's a good practice.

- then I decided to make my own COM server but unfortunatelly I'm not able
to make type library for it. So again - no success.Of course I could try to
make it by hand, but that should be done more or less automatically.

How to interoperate then?

Michal




From jbenson at sextans.lowell.edu  Fri Apr  2 17:48:01 2004
From: jbenson at sextans.lowell.edu (Jim Benson)
Date: Fri, 2 Apr 2004 15:48:01 -0700 (MST)
Subject: simple popen question
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0404021515250.18733-100000@sextans.mesa.lowellnet>


Hi, 

  I use popen to run a binary executable.
A code snippit is below.
This part runs fine. I use readline()
to catch and print output from the binary
to the screen. The system obviously buffers
things. i.e. readline doesn't return after every
line of output from the executable. 
Is there an easy way to turn off the buffering?
I tried adding the extra 'r' and a small bufsize
to the popen...no difference.
 
iFd = os.popen(self.sCmd + ' ' + sArgs)                                           
# Run sCmd            
while True:
   line = iFd.readline()
   if line == '':        
      # EOF found...break out.            
      break;
            
   print '%s' % line[:-1]
        
iRet = iFd.close()    
        
if (iRet != None):
                
   print 'ERROR: error message'


Thanks,

Jim






From michaelmossey at yahoo.com  Wed Apr  7 15:13:41 2004
From: michaelmossey at yahoo.com (Michael Mossey)
Date: 7 Apr 2004 12:13:41 -0700
Subject: Intermittant slow startup
References: <9badaf0.0404051033.9fec2db@posting.google.com>	<4071A86D.97CA6CAE@alcyone.com>	<9badaf0.0404051445.5b26b945@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.391.1081257204.20120.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <9badaf0.0404071113.6cdcee6b@posting.google.com>

Andrew MacIntyre <andymac at bullseye.apana.org.au> wrote in message news:<mailman.391.1081257204.20120.python-list at python.org>...
> On Tue, 5 Apr 2004, Michael Mossey wrote:
> 
> > Erik Max Francis <max at alcyone.com> wrote in message news:<4071A86D.97CA6CAE at alcyone.com>...
> > > Michael Mossey wrote:
> > >
> > > > Runnng python 2.2 on HP-UX, I get intermittant slow startup.
> > > > Sometimes python starts up in a small fraction of a second, and
> > > > sometimes takes 3-5 seconds.  This applies to any script I run, or
> > > > just typing 'python' at the prompt.
> > > >
> > > > I also observed something similar on Linux.
> > > >
> > > > Any ideas what would cause *intermittant* slow startup?
> > >
> > > Caching?  Is it a long time between invocations that it takes a long
> > > time to start up?
> >
> > It is quite intermittant without much of a pattern I can see.  One
> > thing that is definitely true is that if I start up python several
> > times in a row one right after the other, some can be slow and some
> > fast.  I just observed it start fast twice, then start slow.  I don't
> > remember if it ever does the other way around but I think it does.
> 
> is any resource coming from an NFS mount? or other network source?

I double-checked that and asked the sysadmin to check if the python
build was using any network source.  I do have AFS and NFS drives
mounted on this machine, but I'm not reading any python code from them
as nearly as I can tell.  PYTHONPATH points only to local disk.

-Mike


From peter.maas at mplusr.de  Fri Apr  2 06:27:36 2004
From: peter.maas at mplusr.de (Peter Maas)
Date: Fri, 02 Apr 2004 13:27:36 +0200
Subject: Travelling salesman variation in python
In-Reply-To: <slrnc6qdum.8l0.ncw@irishsea.home.craig-wood.com>
References: <slrnc6on9h.spl.erlendga@tva.ifi.uio.no>
	<slrnc6qdum.8l0.ncw@irishsea.home.craig-wood.com>
Message-ID: <c4jikc$eq4$1@swifty.westend.com>

Nick Craig-Wood wrote:
> I used Simulated Annealing - have a search for the term and you'll see
> plenty of references.  Its good at finding a (local) minimum.

I used to think that Simulated Annealing avoids local traps and
is good at finding a global minimum, at least with a certain
probability that depends on some temperature function. Am I wrong?

Mit freundlichen Gruessen,

Peter Maas

-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Peter Maas, M+R Infosysteme, D-52070 Aachen, Hubert-Wienen-Str. 24
Tel +49-241-93878-0 Fax +49-241-93878-20 eMail peter.maas at mplusr.de
-------------------------------------------------------------------


From colin.blackburn at durham.ac.uk  Tue Apr  6 07:03:42 2004
From: colin.blackburn at durham.ac.uk (Colin Blackburn)
Date: Tue, 06 Apr 2004 12:03:42 +0100
Subject: design by contract versus doctest
References: <407174ea$0$5066$4d4ebb8e@news.nl.uu.net>
	<T7Sdnf23r-IZGOzdRVn-sA@powergate.ca>
	<40718ddb$0$5071$4d4ebb8e@news.nl.uu.net>
	<IdadnapeW8YCCOzdRVn-jw@powergate.ca>
	<4071a6d4$0$5064$4d4ebb8e@news.nl.uu.net>
	<feKdnaUMq6w_MuzdRVn-jw@powergate.ca>
	<c4tkie$b19$2@arcturus.ciril.fr>
	<XbWdnWzpzoo5Fu_dRVn-ug@powergate.ca>
Message-ID: <opr507ogk8yxrafp@nntphost.dur.ac.uk>

On Tue, 06 Apr 2004 06:51:16 -0400, Peter Hansen <peter at engcorp.com> wrote:

> Yermat wrote:
>
>> Peter Hansen wrote:
>>> But I'm certainly no expert in (or proponent of) DBC...
>>  see http://www.python.org/doc/essays/metaclasses/Eiffel.py
>> to now how to do (at least one way to) design by contract in Python.
>
> This doesn't appear to do what the OP says it should do.
> I see preconditions which, while coded in separate methods
> from the code for which it is written, still executes
> every time the method is called.  That is, in terms of the
> sequence of code, it's the same as just putting the check
> in at the top of the called method.

In this case yes because python does not support DbC within itself.  
However, in a language that does support DbC (Eiffel) these checks can be  
turned on during the implementation phase and turned off in the delivered  
code. There are techniques in python, java and other languages to  
implement DbC using comments and documentation, ie the contract checks are  
only executed when a tool/module able to process the structure comments is  
loaded.

DbC though is about design rather than just a way testing of parameters.  
It is a philosophy of program design. See Object Oriented Software  
Construction, ed 2, by Bertrand Mayer.

Colin
--


From helge at hefre.com  Thu Apr 29 15:10:03 2004
From: helge at hefre.com (Helge)
Date: 29 Apr 2004 12:10:03 -0700
Subject: Create object for item in list
Message-ID: <39885b3c.0404291110.7bd152ba@posting.google.com>

I wonder how this can be accomplished:

I've got a list, containing several strings. The strings look like
this:

[ "Name1/N1/N2/N3" , "Name2/N1/N2/N3" , "..." ]

I would like to create one object for each item in the list, and the
name of the object should be "str(item.split("/")[0])".

I've tried this, but it won't work:

for item in list:
    str(item.split("/")[0]) = class(item)

...


From deetsNOSPAM at web.de  Thu Apr 22 13:59:31 2004
From: deetsNOSPAM at web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2004 19:59:31 +0200
Subject: equivalent to Tcl 'after' command?
References: <huThc.54272$9V6.15414@newssvr25.news.prodigy.com>
Message-ID: <c69117$hu0$04$1@news.t-online.com>

> after 1000 {puts "one second has elapsed"}
> 
> 1.  What's the most canonical way of doing this?
> 
> 2.  What's the best reference that talks about non-gui event loop
>     programming in Python?

Has been a while since I used tcl/tk, so I'm a bit rusty here. But AFAIK
that after stuff was needed when the tk event loop took over control. Sooo
- _if_ you use a toolkit, it most probably features such a facility.

In python, such stuff is usually accomplished using threads - and since a
recent version, there is the module sched. Which internally uses threads. I
personally ripped the webware taskkit for recurrent tasks.
-- 
Regards,

Diez B. Roggisch


From workingdudetor at yahoo.com  Sat Apr  3 19:54:47 2004
From: workingdudetor at yahoo.com (Neo)
Date: 3 Apr 2004 16:54:47 -0800
Subject: IBM Developerworks: Learn how to write DB2 JDBC tools in Jython
Message-ID: <3ea34487.0404031654.596cbd06@posting.google.com>

Java Libraries + Python Syntax 

http://www-106.ibm.com/developerworks/db2/library/techarticle/dm-0404yang/index.html


From greg at cosc.canterbury.ac.nz  Sun Apr 25 23:10:22 2004
From: greg at cosc.canterbury.ac.nz (Greg Ewing)
Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2004 15:10:22 +1200
Subject: Why we will use obj$func() often
In-Reply-To: <PLhic.30493$dZ1.22063@fed1read04>
References: <d2Uhc.22272$dZ1.1600@fed1read04> <84Uhc.22278$dZ1.5087@fed1read04>
	<mailman.927.1082665370.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<8AWhc.23114$dZ1.11070@fed1read04> <40883BFE.B381518A@alcyone.com>
	<27_hc.23801$dZ1.2716@fed1read04> <40887145.789A2FE8@alcyone.com>
	<7cki80hj976bia36lhf9er97v073o1pqvm@4ax.com>
	<w8dic.28710$dZ1.11206@fed1read04> <ulXiAls/KH1K089yn@the-wire.com>
	<lkfic.29767$dZ1.17301@fed1read04>
	<donn-66132E.15345723042004@nntp3.u.washington.edu>
	<PLhic.30493$dZ1.22063@fed1read04>
Message-ID: <c6huj3$c3s3f$1@ID-169208.news.uni-berlin.de>

Mark Hahn wrote:
> The whole point is to make things simpler, more readable, and more
> efficient, but when people see the & symbol they somehow automatically think
> it's complex.

The feature itself might not be complex, but it's
unfamiliar, since it's not quite like anything in any
other language they're likely to be familiar with.
So it makes learning the language a more complex
exercise, since it's one more new thing to learn.

It's also something that will be quite rarely used,
and is totally non-suggestive of its meaning, so I
expect people will be looking it up in the manual a
lot before it finally gets internalised.

On the other hand, replacing it with a keyword such
as "outer" would make it highly suggestive, to the
point where I'd wager most people wouldn't have to
look it up at all.

This is a big advantage that words have over
punctuation -- you have much more scope for choosing
one that means something to people.

-- 
Greg Ewing, Computer Science Dept,
University of Canterbury,	
Christchurch, New Zealand
http://www.cosc.canterbury.ac.nz/~greg



From eric at zomething.com  Fri Apr  2 22:51:04 2004
From: eric at zomething.com (Eric @ Zomething)
Date: Fri, 2 Apr 2004 19:51:04 -0800
Subject: Fake post alert(was: Stackless Website down, Project gone,
	I'm dead.)
Message-ID: <20040402195104.186481807.eric@zomething.com>

someone identified as "Christian Tismer" <tismer at stackless.com> wrote:

> I don't deserver this honor, since I didn't write that nonsense.
> But many thanks, anyway.

per the headers rec'd-

this post:  gd31e.g.pppool.de ([80.185.211.30] 
the fool post:  gd31e.g.pppool.de ([80.185.211.30]


guess I need to get smarter(!)

someone show me the light...



From tjreedy at udel.edu  Thu Apr 22 11:16:33 2004
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2004 11:16:33 -0400
Subject: Optimizing a text statistics function
References: <c661pe$tie$1@f1node01.rhrz.uni-bonn.de><c669k5$c52$07$1@news.t-online.com>
	<4086efbc$1@nntp0.pdx.net> <c67kmc$utu$1@f1node01.rhrz.uni-bonn.de>
Message-ID: <c68nkb$orq$1@sea.gmane.org>


"Nickolay Kolev" <nmkolev at uni-bonn.de> wrote in message
news:c67kmc$utu$1 at f1node01.rhrz.uni-bonn.de...
>  From my understanding, for line in file('...'): is only useful if I
> want to make checks on the lines and then do something with them:

It is also useful for limiting amount in RAM at one time.  The main
downside would be if the units you want to analyse, in this case words, are
split across line endings.  But split() on whitespace will also split the
units at line endings.

> Both methods should produce the same amount of memory usage as all words
> are stored in a list.

It seems to me that 300 meg file chunk + 400 meg list/dict is larger than
small file chunk + 400 meg list/dict, but maybe I misunderstand what you
meant.

> Reading a file line by line should be slower, as
> Python would have to check where the newline characters are.

'for line in file' has now been optimized to run quickly.  Behind the
scenes, sensibly sized chunks (such as 64K)  are read from disk into a
memory buffer.  Lines are then doled out one at a time.  This is done with
compiled C.  So I suspect the slowdown compared to read-all and split is
minimal.

Terry J. Reedy








From tjreedy at udel.edu  Thu Apr 22 11:42:47 2004
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2004 11:42:47 -0400
Subject: Simple question about mutable container iterator
References: <c68iet$8qd$1@sea.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <c68p5g$tg5$1@sea.gmane.org>


"Neal D. Becker" <ndbecker2 at verizon.net> wrote in message
news:c68iet$8qd$1 at sea.gmane.org...
> x = [1,2,3]
>
> for i in x:
>   i = 2
>
> This doesn't change x.  2 questions:
>
> 1) Why not?

Why would it?  You are just rebinding the name 'i' to the int 2, over and
over.

> Why doesn't assign to an iterator of a mutable type change the
> underlying object?

'i' is not an iterator, it is just a name

> 2) What is the preferred way to do this?

Assuming 'this' is 'change the contents of x'

for i in range(len(x)): x[i] = 2
# or
x = [2]*len(x)

Terry J. Reedy






From loic at fejoz.net  Thu Apr 29 10:57:47 2004
From: loic at fejoz.net (Yermat)
Date: Thu, 29 Apr 2004 16:57:47 +0200
Subject: static keyword
In-Reply-To: <LeydnWxdT6atjgzdRVn-sA@powergate.ca>
References: <f8097096.0404290607.78aa9ce3@posting.google.com>
	<LeydnWxdT6atjgzdRVn-sA@powergate.ca>
Message-ID: <c6r59t$9mm$1@arcturus.ciril.fr>

Peter Hansen wrote:
> Nick Jacobson wrote:
> 
>> I believe the following "static" command would be useful in Python.

I do not ! Static variable are like global...

> [snip]
> 
>> Just like in C, the variables i and firstcall are only assigned the
>> first time foo() is called.  To get this effect currently, one could
>> use default arguments or wrapping the whole thing in a class.  Both of
>> these solutions seem like hacks, the above method IMO is more
>> Pythonic. :)

or use global with carefully choosed name...


> class HasState:
>     def __init__(self):
>         self.firstCall = True
>         self.i = [10, 11]
> 
>     def foo(self):
>         if self.firstCall:
>             print "First pass"
>             self.firstCall = False
>         self.i[0] += 1
>         print self.i[0]
> 
> obj = HasState()
> obj.foo()
> obj.foo()

Like this solution because most of the timethis is not really static 
variable that we want but a per context "static" variable.

Anyway, if this is really static variable that you want,
what about this : 8-)

 >>> i = [10 ,11]
 >>> firstcall = True
 >>>
 >>> def foo():
...     global i
...     global firstcall
...     if firstcall:
...             print "First pass"
...             firstcall = False
...     i[0] += 1
...     print i[0]
...
 >>> foo()
First pass
11
 >>> foo()
12

-- 
Yermat



From greg at cosc.canterbury.ac.nz  Wed Apr 21 22:31:57 2004
From: greg at cosc.canterbury.ac.nz (Greg Ewing)
Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2004 14:31:57 +1200
Subject: CamelCase versus wide_names (Prothon)
In-Reply-To: <M0zhc.19121$dZ1.13729@fed1read04>
References: <UHxfc.9323$dZ1.3740@fed1read04>
	<407ec022$0$54153$1b2cd167@news.wanadoo.nl>
	<roy-C4FD90.13444715042004@reader2.panix.com>
	<b9Afc.9345$dZ1.7703@fed1read04>
	<geoc80tveo7uja595bti95q0dlslsjmcq5@4ax.com>
	<M0zhc.19121$dZ1.13729@fed1read04>
Message-ID: <c67aqt$8pb4n$1@ID-169208.news.uni-berlin.de>

Mark Hahn wrote:
> When I first started I thought everyone's opnion mattered and that I had the
> job of merging eveyone's ideas into a grand scheme that made everyone happy
> <hearty laugh>.

That's the kind of process that gave us COBOL, Algol68 and Ada...

-- 
Greg Ewing, Computer Science Dept,
University of Canterbury,	
Christchurch, New Zealand
http://www.cosc.canterbury.ac.nz/~greg



From donn at u.washington.edu  Fri Apr 30 14:25:19 2004
From: donn at u.washington.edu (Donn Cave)
Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2004 11:25:19 -0700
Subject: Possible problem with popen2 module
References: <e838aa6e.0404300614.57c13c8a@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <donn-DDEC9A.11251930042004@nntp4.u.washington.edu>

In article <e838aa6e.0404300614.57c13c8a at posting.google.com>,
 alloydflanagan at comcast.net (A. Lloyd Flanagan) wrote:
> OK, I've got a weird one I haven't been able to figure out yet. 
> Admittedly I haven't had time to dig into the library source, but this
> behavior certainly doesn't seem right.  Here's a test case:
> 
> """Test program to demonstrate problem with popen2 module."""
> import popen2
> 
> def main (argv):
>     mycmd = 'python2.3 -c "for i in range(100000):\n   print i"'
>     p = popen2.Popen3(mycmd)
>     print 'result code is %d' % p.wait()
>     for line in p.fromchild.xreadlines():
>         print line,
> 
> if __name__ == '__main__':
>     import sys
>     main(sys.argv)
> 
> As you can see I'm using the popen2.Popen3 class to run a process
> which prints a lot of output.
> 
> Here's the problem: for small values of the constant in the range()
> call, e.g. 1000, this works as expected.  For larger values, e.g.
> 100,000, the program never returns from the p.wait() call after the
> child process completes.  It appears tbe waiting forever on the
> waitpid() call.

> I don't see this behavior with calling os.popen().  I DO see it with
> the current implementation of popen5() from the PEP.
> 
> Does anyone know why this is occurring?  Is this a bona-fide bug?  Or
> am I just being stupid somehow?

Well, I will leave it to you to decide how stupid this was.
Nice job on the problem report though, really covers all the
bases.

Pipes are `slow', fixed size devices.  You can write only some
small amount of data to a pipe, and then you have to wait for
the peer process on the other end to read that data and make
more room.  Waiting like (and waiting for the peer on reads)
is what makes them slow, which really means interruptible by
signals (just an aside.)

What would work the way you want is a disk file.  Redirect
output to a file, wait for the process to exit, and read the
file.  Pipes are for processes whose output you want to read
while in progress, and you must do that whether you want to
or not.

You don't have exactly this problem with popen() because you're
not really doing the same thing - it doesn't have a wait(),
just a close(), and close() closes the pipe first, which kills
the process so the wait works.

   Donn Cave, donn at u.washington.edu


From has.temp2 at virgin.net  Thu Apr 29 20:09:11 2004
From: has.temp2 at virgin.net (has)
Date: 29 Apr 2004 17:09:11 -0700
Subject: What is good about Prothon?
References: <bniq80hiib0gauiltuntk9jvia2getbnj4@4ax.com>
	<nxdjc.400$Qy.363@fed1read04>
	<m0ps8092jss5mhpopkbj0a4hg0m0rlppqh@4ax.com>
	<vDvjc.5555$Qy.2995@fed1read04>
	<108t2tlo06j8vb9@corp.supernews.com>
	<hzwjc.6087$Qy.2366@fed1read04>
	<69cbbef2.0404281446.4e0ab52e@posting.google.com>
	<ZHXjc.17225$Qy.13377@fed1read04>
Message-ID: <69cbbef2.0404291609.72d391db@posting.google.com>

"Mark Hahn" <mark at prothon.org> wrote in message news:<ZHXjc.17225$Qy.13377 at fed1read04>...

> My position (which is basicly in agreement with Lieberman's paper) is that
> having multiple tiers is inherent in all programming and is a natural result
> of factoring the problem of making many copies of the same thing.

And my position is that:

1. Anyone can find pieces of paper to prop up an existing position. It
doesn't really prove anything. It's finding pieces of paper that
actively contradict your position and being able to A. convincingly
refute their arguments or, if that fails, B. acknowlege that they're
right and you're wrong, and revise your position accordingly.

2. There's a world of difference between the user imposing their own
tiers upon an environment, and having the environment impose its
choice of tiers upon them. Tiers can add convenience, which is what
makes them tempting in the first place, but they also add
restrictions. Adding tiers is easy; it's removing them that's hard.

3. Factoring's supposed to add simplicity, not complexity. Programmers
are far too tolerant - sometimes even welcoming - of the latter. An
attitude I think goes a long way to explaining why so much software is
so damned complicated: there's simply not enough lazy, intolerant,
impatient folk in software development. (Note: being lazy, intolerant
and impatient, as well as somewhat slow-witted, I shall no doubt be
doing my bit to redress this in future.;)


<SIDENOTE>
For benefit of viewers who've just tuned in, here's a practical
illustration of how Prothon freaks me out: let's say I want to create
three objects; a, b and c. In AppleScript, I would do this:


-- Create object 'a'
script a
	property x : 1
end script

-- Create objects 'b' and 'c'
copy a to b
copy a to c

log {a's x, b's x, c's x} --> {1, 1, 1}

set b's x to 4
log {a's x, b's x, c's x} --> {1, 4, 1}

set a's x to 9
log {a's x, b's x, c's x} --> {9, 4, 1}


[note: AS's 'copy' command performs a deep copy; unlike Python's,
which is shallow]

Whereas Prothon does this:


# Create object 'a'
a = Object()
a.x = 1

# Create objects 'b' and 'c'
b = a()
c = a()

print a.x, b.x, c.x # --> 1 1 1

b.x = 4
print a.x, b.x, c.x # --> 1 4 1

a.x = 9
print a.x, b.x, c.x # --> 9 4 9


In AS, a, b, and c are all equivalent and independent; any changes
made to one do not affect the others. It's a no-brainer to use, and
quite safe. In Prothon, b and c derive state and behaviour from a
unless/until it's modified locally (ie on b or c). Changes made to one
may or may not show up in another depending on the derived
relationship and subsequent changes*, and it's up to the user to keep
track of all this - IMO a great way for all sorts of unpleasant,
unwanted interaction bugs to crop up in non-trivial code unless you're
very, very careful. (And hey, I've already got C pointer arithmetic
any time I feel like living dangerously.;)

(* In class-based OO you've also got the potential to do this kind of
data sharing, but there the difference between sharers - i.e. classes
- and sharees - i.e. instances - is explicit, so casual mix-ups are
much less likely to happen.)

</SIDENOTE>


> We will continue to agree to disagree.

Think I'll just continue to disagree, if it's all the same.


> I have learned a lot in my arguing
> with you though and do appreciate the time you've spent wearing out your
> keyboard.

Well I'm glad it wasn't completely wasted. And hey, who knows; you may
always change your mind. (And I have some neat thoughts on how to set
up a nice modules system if you ever tempt me back...;)


From support at alcanet.com.au  Sat Apr  3 19:00:01 2004
From: support at alcanet.com.au (support at alcanet.com.au)
Date: Sun, 4 Apr 2004 10:00:01 +1000
Subject: ALCATEL POLICY : your message has been refused
Message-ID: <200404040000.i34001xO019181@mailgate.alcanet.com.au>

******************** e-mail Manager Notification ********************** 

As a security precaution this mail was blocked and discarded since it
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Source mailbox : <python-list at python.org>
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From fpetermaas at netscape.net  Thu Apr  1 04:01:40 2004
From: fpetermaas at netscape.net (Peter Maas)
Date: Thu, 01 Apr 2004 11:01:40 +0200
Subject: Python conference slogan
In-Reply-To: <kmjsj1-89u.ln1@snout.lairds.org>
References: <mailman.189.1080759511.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<kmjsj1-89u.ln1@snout.lairds.org>
Message-ID: <c4glmq$j1i$1@swifty.westend.com>

Kyler Laird wrote:
> Shane Hathaway <shane at zope.com> writes:
> 
> 
>>I don't know if international folks will 
>>get it, though. :-)
> 
> 
> If they don't, we just send in troops to explain it
> to them, right?

I surrender immediately and have to admit that I don't get it (One
Nation Under Under Python). Google was no help. I couldn't find the
source, only echoes (seems to be a wide spread joke pattern in the
US). Care to give us ignorants a hint?

Mit freundlichen Gruessen,

Peter Maas

-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Peter Maas, M+R Infosysteme, D-52070 Aachen, Hubert-Wienen-Str. 24
Tel +49-241-93878-0 Fax +49-241-93878-20 eMail peter.maas at mplusr.de
-------------------------------------------------------------------


From edwin at localhost.localdomain  Sun Apr  4 00:42:43 2004
From: edwin at localhost.localdomain (Edwin Young)
Date: 03 Apr 2004 21:42:43 -0800
Subject: minor bug in cmath.asin?
References: <m3y8pcr8u9.fsf@localhost.localdomain>
	<406F3EDA.970F953A@alcyone.com>
	<m34qs0ikm0.fsf@localhost.localdomain>
	<406F960C.8FD57D46@alcyone.com>
Message-ID: <m3zn9sguy4.fsf@localhost.localdomain>

Erik Max Francis <max at alcyone.com> writes:

> Edwin Young wrote:
> 
> > It's not clear if the leading - sign affects the entire expression or
> > indicates that i is negative. Python's implementation uses the former
> > - I argue that the latter is more correct.
> 
> What's the difference?  Multiplication on complex numbers is
> commutative.

Floating point math is weird. Among its oddities it has a positive
zero and a negative zero. The way Python implements asin, it produces
-0 in some circumstances when it should ideally produce +0, because it
multiples by (-0-1j) rather than (+0-1j). This in turn is because both
parts of the expression are negated, not just the imaginary part.

--
Edwin


From wilkSPAM at OUTflibuste.net  Thu Apr 15 17:26:35 2004
From: wilkSPAM at OUTflibuste.net (Wilk)
Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2004 23:26:35 +0200
Subject: CamelCase versus wide_names (Prothon)
References: <UHxfc.9323$dZ1.3740@fed1read04> <87hdvl2dny.fsf@blakie.riol>
	<c5mr6h$jkn$1@atlantis.news.tpi.pl>
Message-ID: <87d6692ar8.fsf@blakie.riol>

Jarek Zgoda <jzgoda at gazeta.usun.pl> writes:

> Wilk <wilkSPAM at OUTflibuste.net> pisze:
>
>>> 2) Wide_names is cleaner, more readable, compatible with C, which is the
>>> standard module language for Python and Prothon.  Wide_names is also the
>>> Python standard.
>> 
>> Before, i used CamelCase, but now i use only wide_name because i find
>> that capitals letters are a pain for the finger and the wrist.  For
>> example when you whant to write Q (on querty or azerty keyboard), with
>> one hand you must make a gymnastic, or you will need two hands.
>
> Underscore is such same pain. I cann't see any advantage.

On azerty keyboard _ is under 8 and does'nt need to press shift... I
did'nt remember that it's diffent on qwerty.

-- 
Wilk - http://flibuste.net


From fredrik at pythonware.com  Fri Apr 23 15:03:43 2004
From: fredrik at pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2004 21:03:43 +0200
Subject: Why we will use obj$func() often
References: <d2Uhc.22272$dZ1.1600@fed1read04>
	<84Uhc.22278$dZ1.5087@fed1read04><mailman.927.1082665370.20120.python-list@python.org><8AWhc.23114$dZ1.11070@fed1read04>
	<40883BFE.B381518A@alcyone.com><27_hc.23801$dZ1.2716@fed1read04>
	<40887145.789A2FE8@alcyone.com><7cki80hj976bia36lhf9er97v073o1pqvm@4ax.com>
	<w8dic.28710$dZ1.11206@fed1read04>
Message-ID: <c6bpag$i7b$1@sea.gmane.org>

Mark Hahn wrote:
> (by the way, Python cannot do this)

sure can, if you use mutable integers.

> # tested example
> def getFunc():
>     counter = 0
>     def count():
>             &counter += 1
>             print &counter
>     return count

</F>






From rawbobb at hotmail.com  Wed Apr  7 23:03:26 2004
From: rawbobb at hotmail.com (bobb)
Date: Thu, 08 Apr 2004 03:03:26 GMT
Subject: [OT] The Cracker's Guide To Python
References: <04g770lqpbhdgr3n3b9mnu9o8f08fdkgk0@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <2i3dc.6735$WX.1167@nwrdny01.gnilink.net>

Sounds good to me.

bobb

"Christos TZOTZIOY Georgiou" <tzot at sil-tec.gr> wrote in message
news:04g770lqpbhdgr3n3b9mnu9o8f08fdkgk0 at 4ax.com...
> Dear all,
>
> yesterday afternoon I happened to be in the company of youngsters, and I
> overheard them talking about the whereabouts of the crack of the latest
> version of some famous video editing software... instead of preaching
> about legalities at first etc, I asked:
>
> "What exactly do you need this software for?"
>
> "I have two avi files and I want to join them..."
>
> "Why don't you download VirtualDub and do your job then?  Google for it,
> it's open source and you can download it freely."
>
> "So I don't need a crack for it?"
>
> ... (!)
>
> I'm skipping the rest of the conversation, but the idea of lots of
> youngsters around the world, brilliant and talented perhaps, that waste
> their time in illegal activities instead of investing it into open
> source software struck me as very depressing.
>
> So jokingly, how do we advertise python in that "underground" world?
> Easy: let's provide a crack for every version of python for windows! :)
> It doesn't matter what it does, perhaps only change the copyright
> message into "H4x0r3d by Guid0 T34m" by changing directly the
> pythonxx.dll.  The only problem would be that if the crack is written in
> Python, it won't be able to open the dll as read-write...
>
> It's a crazy world...
> --
> TZOTZIOY, I speak England very best,
> Ils sont fous ces Redmontains! --Harddix




From newsgroups at jhrothjr.com  Wed Apr 14 16:29:41 2004
From: newsgroups at jhrothjr.com (John Roth)
Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2004 16:29:41 -0400
Subject: Difficulty Finding Python Developers
References: <65cbc3dd.0404140641.3501fde8@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <107r7s48qa3evd8@news.supernews.com>

"Paul Morrow" <pm_mon at yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:65cbc3dd.0404140641.3501fde8 at posting.google.com...
> We've worked hard to convince our company to migrate our core
> applications to Python, and now we're looking for a Python developer
> in Atlanta to handle a short-term (approx. 3 month) project.  But our
> initial searches have been fairly unsuccessful.  We haven't actually
> posted a job on Monster, but we have been talking with various
> headhunters in our area and they don't have many resumes that show
> Python experience.  An so now, of course, mgt is wondering whether
> selecting Python was a mistake.
>
> As anyone had a similar experience?  Suggestions?

As someone else said, you can always put a reasonable
request here. My resume will be there by return mail -
I'm located in Duluth.

John Roth
>
> Thanks.




From jcarlson at uci.edu  Sat Apr 10 16:02:01 2004
From: jcarlson at uci.edu (Josiah Carlson)
Date: Sat, 10 Apr 2004 13:02:01 -0700
Subject: Compact Python library for math statistics
In-Reply-To: <3064b51d.0404091308.472dfb78@posting.google.com>
References: <E1B9LoV-0005OQ-00@fatlady.ukr.net>
	<mailman.267.1080904644.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<3064b51d.0404061038.4d69fd89@posting.google.com>
	<5d83790c.0404090024.5cefb2ea@posting.google.com>
	<3064b51d.0404091308.472dfb78@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <c59k27$jbi$1@news.service.uci.edu>

> Overall, the Python code below is about 100 times slower than the
> Fortran equivalent. This is a typical ratio I have found for code
> involving loops.
> 
> from math import sqrt
> n = 10000000 + 1
> sum_sqrt = 0.0
> for i in range(1,n):
>     sum_sqrt = sum_sqrt + (float(i))**0.5
> print sum_sqrt

Yeah...you may want to consider doing some optimizations to the above 
code.  Using 'xrange' instead of 'range' is significantly faster 
(especially when your machine can't hold 'n' integers in a Python list 
in memory), as is the removal of the 'float(i)' cast (which is unnecessary).

As for Python being slow compared to Fortran, of course it is going to 
be slow in comparison.  Fortran is compiled to assembly, and has fairly 
decent (if not amazing) optimizers.  Python is bytecode compiled, 
interpreted, and lacks an even remotely equivalent optimizer.


  - Josiah


From bokr at oz.net  Mon Apr 12 16:43:15 2004
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 12 Apr 2004 20:43:15 GMT
Subject: maximum length of a list & tuple
References: <c54lq3$2pe1sf$1@ID-202776.news.uni-berlin.de>
	<bvednZaKK7OybejdRVn-iQ@centurytel.net>
	<c55okv$2o3eql$1@ID-202776.news.uni-berlin.de>
	<c59igu$hto$1@news.service.uci.edu>
	<hlhh70drqg7fhvn9e3keosdvdp01ulok7r@4ax.com>
	<c5avps$qh$1@news.service.uci.edu>
	<LKWdnSm0Fq4VZuTdRVn-ug@powergate.ca>
	<c5d7e1$iib$1@news.service.uci.edu>
	<AtKdnTLAMJ2K5ufdRVn-vw@powergate.ca>
	<AtKdnSzAMJ1s5ufdRVn-vw@powergate.ca>
Message-ID: <c5ev13$4im$0@216.39.172.122>

On Mon, 12 Apr 2004 07:22:26 -0400, Peter Hansen <peter at engcorp.com> wrote:

>Peter Hansen wrote:
>
>> Josiah Carlson wrote:
>> 
>>> Checking the memory usage of Python before and after the creation of 1 
>>> million integer list, I get a /very/ consistant ~16 bytes per.  That 
>>> would be 12 bytes for the object, and 4 bytes for each pointer in the 
>>> list.  
>> 
>> Please post the expression you are using, for comparison.
>
>By the way, in case it wasn't clear, we have a disagreement (and perhaps
>a misunderstanding) only about the meaning of the original code posted.
>You believe it is allocating many integers.  I believe it allocates
>only a single one.  Perhaps one of us is wrong.  I hadn't read the code
>in great detail, and still haven't, and perhaps that's my mistake.
>Depending on your reply, I'll actually go back and look at it closely
>and perhaps execute it myself and see the result (in terms of the list
>produced, not in terms of the memory consumption).  Maybe you will
>do the same and we'll identify which of us is mistaken...
>
 >>> dict([(id(x),x) for x in [1]*100])
 {7946208: 1}
 >>> dict([(id(x),x) for x in range(5)])
 {7939088: 0, 7946208: 1, 7943184: 4, 7945200: 2, 7944192: 3}
 >>> dict([(id(x),x) for x in range(5)*10])
 {7939088: 0, 7946208: 1, 7943184: 4, 7945200: 2, 7944192: 3}

 >>> for v in -6,-5,0,1,99,100:
 ...     print dict([(id(x),x) for x in [v  for i in xrange(5)]])
 ...
 {8053508: -6}
 {7936720: -5}
 {7939088: 0}
 {7946208: 1}
 {8042496: 99}
 {8166456: 100}
 >>> for v in -6,-5,0,1,99,100:
 ...     print dict([(id(x),x) for x in [v*1  for i in xrange(5)]])
 ...
 {8166384: -6, 8166444: -6, 8166492: -6, 8166360: -6, 8166468: -6}
 {7936720: -5}
 {7939088: 0}
 {7946208: 1}
 {8042496: 99}
 {8166360: 100, 8166468: 100, 8166480: 100, 8166348: 100, 8166492: 100}

Regards,
Bengt Richter


From jcarlson at uci.edu  Thu Apr 22 17:32:49 2004
From: jcarlson at uci.edu (Josiah Carlson)
Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2004 14:32:49 -0700
Subject: Goodbye TCL
In-Reply-To: <f82c8ae7.0404160731.7473b61f@posting.google.com>
References: <0LudnSads6NmpuPdRVn-vw@centurytel.net>
	<f82c8ae7.0404151057.67333d4e@posting.google.com>
	<107u6ef5a2ise19@news.supernews.com>
	<f82c8ae7.0404160731.7473b61f@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <c69dsq$mr7$1@news.service.uci.edu>

> I would be curious to know what is the biggest-capacity Python network
> application in use?  How does it scale in comparison with AOLServer? 
> Any ideas?

Before egroups was purchased by Yahoo (becoming Yahoo Groups), egroups 
was written in Python.  Is a few million users a large enough scale?

  - Josiah


From tzot at sil-tec.gr  Fri Apr  2 09:38:34 2004
From: tzot at sil-tec.gr (Christos TZOTZIOY Georgiou)
Date: Fri, 02 Apr 2004 17:38:34 +0300
Subject: PLEASE STOP!!!
References: <mailman.210.1080803438.20120.python-list@python.org>	<95aa1afa.0404010352.80de14e@posting.google.com>	<406C40E8.10209@prescod.net>
	<mailman.241.1080839381.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<c4hqh6$6uo$1@news.service.uci.edu>
Message-ID: <dguq60988u88lg78ioukgslq4qktjqdk3s@4ax.com>

On Thu, 01 Apr 2004 11:25:22 -0800, rumours say that Josiah Carlson
<jcarlson at uci.edu> might have written:

>Of course, I suppose the prank is that people think it is a prank, when 
>in fact, is actually truth.

Aren't double bluffs great?-)
-- 
TZOTZIOY, I speak England very best,
Ils sont fous ces Redmontains! --Harddix


From rkern at ucsd.edu  Thu Apr 29 17:15:22 2004
From: rkern at ucsd.edu (Robert Kern)
Date: Thu, 29 Apr 2004 14:15:22 -0700
Subject: MATLAB2Python
In-Reply-To: <Nldkc.29552$Qc.1128825@twister1.libero.it>
References: <D2Xjc.28117$Qc.1080799@twister1.libero.it>
	<1090ivtaa0b2e26@corp.supernews.com>
	<40904EDE.9060407@erols.com> <715kc.3$i6.251@psinet-eu-nl>
	<mailman.111.1083249490.25742.python-list@python.org>
	<Nldkc.29552$Qc.1128825@twister1.libero.it>
Message-ID: <c6rr9b$5oa$1@news1.ucsd.edu>

Sarge wrote:

> Il 29 apr 2004, John Hunter ha scritto:
> 
> 
>>I find python + numeric/numarray + MLAb + scipy + matplotlib to
>>be a very workable replacement for matlab,
> 
> 
> [cut]
> 
> I'm impressed. Especially I liked the scipts, awesome!
> 
> Please help me a little more, would you?
> 
> Now, I work on WindosXP and on MDK Linux, I have found on the 
> Internet and downloaded all the packages you were talking about: 
> python, numeric, MLAb, scipy, matplotlib, but I can't figure out in 
> which order (and where) I have to install them. I don't want to mess 
> things up, because the Windoze box is at work and I have to ask for 
> administrator priviledges in order to install/uninstall.

Do you mind a hefty download? If not, then try Enthought's distribution 
of Python[1]. matplotlib seems to have an exe installer for Windows, so 
I assume it's straightforward.

But, in short, that order is correct (the last three all depend on Numeric).

[1] http://www.enthought.com/python/

> Thanx,
> Sarge

-- 
Robert Kern
rkern at ucsd.edu

"In the fields of hell where the grass grows high
  Are the graves of dreams allowed to die."
   -- Richard Harter


From alexanro at stud.ntnu.no  Wed Apr 14 10:31:47 2004
From: alexanro at stud.ntnu.no (Alexander Rødseth)
Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2004 16:31:47 +0200
Subject: Pygame
References: <c5jdv2$s4$1@orkan.itea.ntnu.no>
	<20040414155100.6c56e1e3@pistache.sara.nl>
Message-ID: <c5ji0l$32b$1@orkan.itea.ntnu.no>

> Because PyGame has too many dependencies.
> Adding it to Python itself would make Python less portable.

Pygame is very portable. And adding plattform-specific modules in the past,
doesn't seem to have been a problem:

$ lynx http://docs.python.org/modindex.html --dump --nolist | grep -c "Mac"
56
$ lynx http://docs.python.org/modindex.html --dump --nolist | grep -c
"Windows"
6
$ lynx http://docs.python.org/modindex.html --dump --nolist | grep -c "IRIX"
13
$ lynx http://docs.python.org/modindex.html --dump --nolist | grep -c -i
"UNIX"
24

Even though I think your answer is very reasonable, and I agree that
portability is a good thing,
I don't quite see what would make Python so much less portable if Pygame
were added as a module.

I remember using Pippy for Palm Pilot once, and they had just chopped off
all the modules they didn't
want to port. I don't see why the same procedure couldn't be followed in
other cases as well.

- Alexander




From lars.rasmusson at hp.com  Wed Apr 28 16:27:17 2004
From: lars.rasmusson at hp.com (Rasmusson, Lars)
Date: Wed, 28 Apr 2004 13:27:17 -0700
Subject: Doing readline in a thread from a popen4('rsync ...')  stream
	blocks when the stream ends.
Message-ID: <40700B4C02ABD5119F000090278766440AB9A8E3@hplex1.hpl.hp.com>


As a claification: the readline hangs because the stream has not
closed, and 'rsync' is still running.  The question is 
what in the python thread causes rsync to lock up and never finish?



From paul at prescod.net  Sat Apr 10 19:11:11 2004
From: paul at prescod.net (Paul Prescod)
Date: Sat, 10 Apr 2004 16:11:11 -0700
Subject: print u"\u0432": why is this so hard? UnciodeEncodeError
In-Reply-To: <cpak70qv55w.fsf@cabernet.nelson.monkey.org>
References: <cpa4qrvb529.fsf@cabernet.nelson.monkey.org>	<c52lu9$j8c$03$1@news.t-online.com>
	<cpak70qv55w.fsf@cabernet.nelson.monkey.org>
Message-ID: <40787F0F.7050400@prescod.net>

Nelson Minar wrote:
>...
> 
> So when Python can't guess the encoding, it assumes that ASCII is the
> best it can do? Even as an American that annoys me; what do folks who
> need non-ASCII do in practice? Martin, what do you do when you write a
> Python script that prints your own name?
> 
> I guess what I'd like is a way to set Python's default encoding and
> have that respected for files, terminals, etc. I'd also like some way
> to override the Unicode error mode. 'strict' is the right default, but
> I'd like the option to do 'ignore' or 'replace' globally.

The Python community has traditionally discouraged machine-specific 
configuration. The more you depend on the machine configuration the more 
likely you are to have problems when you move your program from one 
computer to another.

The bug is in the third-party module that does not deal properly with 
Unicode data!

>...
> Now that I know the trick I can do it. But part of the joy of Python
> is that it makes simple things simple. For a beginner to the language
> having to learn about the difference between sys.stdout and
> sys.__stdout__ seems a bit much.

Agreed: the module should handle it for you.

  Paul Prescod





From michael at foord.net  Mon Apr 19 03:11:04 2004
From: michael at foord.net (Fuzzyman)
Date: 19 Apr 2004 00:11:04 -0700
Subject: Wrapper round x86 Assembler
References: <8089854e.0404082353.7bf163a2@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.659.1082059832.20120.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <8089854e.0404182311.15e3921@posting.google.com>

[snip..]
> >
> > Anyway - it would be easy to reserve some memory with a string like
> > object to pass to an 'assembly object' and allow some really nifty
> > (and fast) stuff ?? For simple algorithms it would be very neat.
> > Avoiding memory overflow etc would be up to the assembly code 'chunk'
> > of course.
> 
> 
> The following has been reposted by Bradley Schatz to the ctypes mailing
> list, it may indeed contain what you want, and it *is* very
> interesting.  The original post was to the bugtraq mailing list (or so):
> 
> from oliver.lavery at sympatico.ca
> 
> Today marks another solar cycle I've spent on this planet. To celebrate I'd
> like to share one of my toys with all of you.
> 
> Adder is a tool I wrote for myself, so that I could experiment with runtime
> modification of binary applications. I've found it really useful for
> prototyping run-time patches, understanding the effects and possibilities of
> call-hooking and other run-time program tweaks; that sort of thing. I hope
> you might find it useful too...
> 
> 
> Binary:
> http://www.rootkit.com/vault/x3nophi1e/adder-0.3.3-win32.zip
> ( NT 4 / 2000 / XP / 2003 )
> 
> Source:
> http://www.rootkit.com/vault/x3nophi1e/adder-0.3.3-src.zip
> 
> Documentation:
> http://www.rootkit.com/vault/x3nophi1e/adder-manual.zip
> ( please read the installation instructions in here. )
> 
> 
[snip..]

Very interesting.
It looks like Adder *does* contain what I originally asked for - a
wrapper round an assembler, with the ability to assemble into memory
and jump into the code. All contained within a much more sophisticated
package for bug finding and reverse engineering.

*However* - I've just discovered Weave - a package that is part of the
SciPy project and allows for (almost) inline C functions that can be
dynamically compiled at run-time.

As I'd like to learn Pyrex (and so need to learn C) - I think I'll
experiment with Weave.

Thanks.

Fuzzy

http://www.voidspace.org.uk/atlantibots/pythonutils.html


From pugnatio2 at yahoo.com  Thu Apr 15 10:27:03 2004
From: pugnatio2 at yahoo.com (pugnatio2 at yahoo.com)
Date: 15 Apr 2004 07:27:03 -0700
Subject: Newbie question: Returning mutable vs. immutable
Message-ID: <997a06e0.0404150627.5fb95d9b@posting.google.com>

Hi, Does anyone have an opinion as to whether functions/methods should
return mutable or immutable objects? In some circumstances, I could
see that mutable objects might be more convenient, but if the function
is to be reused, it might be a good idea to return only immutables.

Or is this question moot, since the function returns control to the
caller and is out of the picture at that point?

Thanks,

--p


From andy at dustman.net  Sat Apr 10 23:07:31 2004
From: andy at dustman.net (Andy Dustman)
Date: Sat, 10 Apr 2004 23:07:31 -0400
Subject: ZMySQLDA/MySQLdb: DON'T fix like this for Zope 2.7.0!
In-Reply-To: <20040403173444.GC32655@calvados>
References: <406E9DE4.2000604@simplistix.co.uk>
	<406EDE94.9000701@simplistix.co.uk> <406EEE33.9050901@simplistix.co.uk>
	<20040403171804.GA32655@calvados> <406EF43D.5040309@simplistix.co.uk>
	<20040403173444.GC32655@calvados>
Message-ID: <1081652851.2911.2.camel@chef.neosouth.net>

On Sat, 2004-04-03 at 12:34, Michal Kurowski wrote:
> Chris Withers [lists at simplistix.co.uk] wrote:
> > 
> > This is NOT a good fix. All you're doing is ignoring the server's 
> > capabilities, so if the server supports transactions and the client 
> > doesn't, or vice versa, you end up in a mess.
> 
> You're right but I think it is not that severe.
> Generally you use MyIsam tables and if you choose InnoDB you know your
> own reasons for it.
> 
> > I think the idea is that you're supposed to use mysql-python 0.9.3b2 with 
> > Python 2.3, but there's no Windows binary for that.
> > Well, ZMySQLDA is Andy's code, so perhaps he could comment? ;-)
> 
> Well, I'd be curious to hear Andy Dustman in here too ;-)))

Chris is correct. For Python 2.2 and up, you need one of the
MySQLdb-0.9.3 betas.
-- 
Andy Dustman         PGP: 0x930B8AB6
    @       .net     http://dustman.net/andy
Freedom isn't free. It's sold to the highest bidder.



From ramen at lackingtalent.com  Sat Apr 10 04:14:22 2004
From: ramen at lackingtalent.com (Dave Benjamin)
Date: Sat, 10 Apr 2004 08:14:22 -0000
Subject: Code blocks and top posting
Message-ID: <slrnc7fbrc.1ek.ramen@lackingtalent.com>

def answer(question):
    return 'For pretty much the same reason top posting is.'
    
if __name__ == '__main__':
    question = 'Why is Python not having code blocks annoying?'
    print answer(question)

# HaHaOnlySerious

-- 
.:[ dave benjamin: ramen/[sp00] -:- spoomusic.com -:- ramenfest.com ]:.
:  please talk to your son or daughter about parametric polymorphism. :


From lbates at swamisoft.com  Mon Apr 26 17:46:42 2004
From: lbates at swamisoft.com (Larry Bates)
Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2004 16:46:42 -0500
Subject: Is there a Python library that packs binary data into one file?
References: <85b54e91.0404261301.69d5c1e9@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <vsednYPvz4bdHhDd4p2dnA@comcast.com>

zipfile.py works pretty well and you get compression
as well.

Larry Bates
Syscon, Inc.

"Jacob H" <jacobsmail at postmark.net> wrote in message
news:85b54e91.0404261301.69d5c1e9 at posting.google.com...
> Hello all,
>
> Today I began writing a utility script that takes given binary files
> and puts them all into one datafile. My idea is to be able to access
> any binary data I want by indexing the datafile, e.g.
> wanted_image_data = datafileobj[IMAGE_DATA]. The purpose is to hide
> external image files from the user in a simple game I'm writing.
>
> Though I have a good idea of how to implement this, before I begin I
> am curious to know if some Python master out there has already come
> out with a library that does the same. Anyone? :)




From heikowu at ceosg.de  Tue Apr 27 13:58:21 2004
From: heikowu at ceosg.de (Heiko Wundram)
Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2004 19:58:21 +0200
Subject: Could someone explain this to a newbie
In-Reply-To: <a%wjc.197$ph.161@fed1read07>
References: <a%wjc.197$ph.161@fed1read07>
Message-ID: <200404271958.21328.heikowu@ceosg.de>

Am Dienstag, 27. April 2004 19:45 schrieb Sean Berry:
> >>> text = 'zone "newsouthpine.com" {'
> >>> text.lstrip("zone \"")
>
> 'wsouthpine.com" {'
>

From the Python Manual:

""
lstrip([chars])

 Return a copy of the string with leading characters removed. If chars is 
omitted or None, whitespace characters are removed. If given and not None, 
chars must be a string; the characters in the string will be stripped from 
the beginning of the string this method is called on. Changed in version 
2.2.2: Support for the chars argument. 
""

Thus, it does exactly as it sais. The first few characters after the "zone \"" 
in the string are contained in the chars array which you pass in (namely 
"ne"), and thus they are also stripped from the string.

What you might want to do is something like the following:

x = x.strip()
if x.startswith("zone \""): x = x[6:]

HTH!

Heiko.



From listas at grahal.net  Fri Apr  2 22:07:11 2004
From: listas at grahal.net (Gustavo Rahal)
Date: Sat, 03 Apr 2004 00:07:11 -0300
Subject: first python program.. lyrics search
Message-ID: <406E2A5F.9060209@grahal.net>

Hi

I'm trying to learn python by doing something that I think it would be 
nice; Search lyrics using some websites like www.musicsonglyrics.com, 
http://www.sing365.com
I am trying to parse the html code and get the information that i need. 
Since I am not very good with programing I am stuck on this part.
Let's take the www.musicsonglyrics.com website as an example. So let's 
say Metallica lyrics would be on www.musicsonglyrics.com/M.htm. Getting 
the first letter, requesting the M.htm page and checking if Metallica is 
in the html code is easy. Here is what I did up to now:

artist = raw_input("Name of the artist: ")
music = raw_input("Name of the music: ")
                                                                                                                        

url = "http://www.musicsonglyrics.com/" + artist[0].capitalize() + ".htm"
f = 
urllib2.urlopen(url)                                                                                                                    

found = 0
lines = f.readlines()
f.close()
for x in lines:
        if x.find(artist) != -1:
                found = 1
                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                       

if found:
        print "OK"
else:
        print "No"


The problem is once I have the M.htm page I don't now how to get from 
the html code the "http://www.musicsonglyrics.com/M/Metallica/Metallica 
lyrics.htm" link to proceed with the search. I tried to read about 
Regular Expressions but I think I'm to dumb for it.

Any ideas? Maybe my approach is completely wrong....

Appreciate any help
Gustavo




From stevenbee at removethis.att.net  Sun Apr 25 14:22:30 2004
From: stevenbee at removethis.att.net (Steven Brent)
Date: Sun, 25 Apr 2004 14:22:30 -0400
Subject: List operator overloading snag
References: <8TCdnQn1OKieaRbdRWPC-w@speakeasy.net>
Message-ID: <gy2dnU31ANN7nBHdRWPC-w@speakeasy.net>

Crikey, is *that* all it was!?
Thanks so much to all who responded so quickly.
Y'all made my day :-)

--SB


From michael at foord.net  Fri Apr  9 10:33:46 2004
From: michael at foord.net (Fuzzyman)
Date: 9 Apr 2004 07:33:46 -0700
Subject: CGI Problems With Xitami
References: <8089854e.0404072356.7f33f440@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.451.1081430027.20120.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <8089854e.0404090633.7c8541ea@posting.google.com>

Andrew MacIntyre <andymac at bullseye.apana.org.au> wrote in message news:<mailman.451.1081430027.20120.python-list at python.org>...
> On Thu, 8 Apr 2004, Fuzzyman wrote:
> 
> > All of a sudden the 'POST' method has stopped working - when I specify
> > 'POST' as the method in forms... the CGI gets no data... and I really
> > don't want to use 'GET' as it makes the password visible in the URL...
> 
> Are you using "python -u" when invoking your CGI script?  Unbuffered I/O
> saves lots of headaches with CGI, especially on Windows.

Hmmm... I'm not, I'll try it.
I might have fun working out how with Xitami.... and then with
whatever server we have at work :-)

I haven't managed to try tidy yet (the windows binary I have doesn't
appear to do anything and we have a censoring proxy at work which
makes getting to most sites 'difficult').

Regards,


Fuzzy

http://www.atlantibots.org.uk/pythonutils.html


From gerrit at nl.linux.org  Thu Apr 22 04:56:02 2004
From: gerrit at nl.linux.org (Gerrit)
Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2004 10:56:02 +0200
Subject: saving interpreter source?
In-Reply-To: <pan.2004.04.21.16.36.47.928286@asdf.asdf>
References: <pan.2004.04.21.16.36.47.928286@asdf.asdf>
Message-ID: <20040422085602.GA19868@nl.linux.org>

Garett wrote:
> Hello, I would like to be able to save source typed into the interpreter
> to a file. Kind of like marshal, but I would like to have the file contain
> the source so I can edit it later. Something like inspect.getsource() but
> for source typed into the interpreter, not imported from a module. Is this
> possible? Any ideas are greatly appreciated. -Garett

Skip has once written something like that:

http://manatee.mojam.com/~skip/python/save_session.py

It won't work on Windows, however.

Gerrit.

-- 
Weather in Twenthe, Netherlands 22/04 10:25:
	15.0?C Few clouds mostly cloudy wind 1.3 m/s SW (57 m above NAP)
-- 
Experiences with Asperger's Syndrome:
	EN http://topjaklont.student.utwente.nl/english/
	NL http://topjaklont.student.utwente.nl/



From project2501 at project2501.cor  Thu Apr 22 12:09:35 2004
From: project2501 at project2501.cor (project2501)
Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2004 17:09:35 +0100
Subject: alternative python compilers/vms? (like java)
Message-ID: <pan.2004.04.22.16.09.35.766000@project2501.cor>


are there alternative compilers for python? or different VMs to run the
bytecode?

similar to IBM java jvm and sun jvm, and other jvms? jikes, gcj?




From tstegen at cis.strath.ac.uk  Mon Apr 12 18:06:48 2004
From: tstegen at cis.strath.ac.uk (Thomas stegen)
Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2004 23:06:48 +0100
Subject: String + number split
In-Reply-To: <WSBec.70431$Id.61446@news-binary.blueyonder.co.uk>
References: <2SAec.70005$Id.6002@news-binary.blueyonder.co.uk>
	<YjBec.70215$Id.61871@news-binary.blueyonder.co.uk>
	<WSBec.70431$Id.61446@news-binary.blueyonder.co.uk>
Message-ID: <c5f437$vh0g$1@ID-228872.news.uni-berlin.de>

Stevie_mac wrote:

> now thats what im talking about!
> note to self, learn reg exp!

While you are at it I would recommend looking at finite state
automatons since give a very simple theoretical viewpoint
at what regular expressions are capable/incapable of
doing. After that it is just syntax :) (It is also give
a good hint at how you can implement reg exes yourself.)

-- 
Thomas.



From HughMacdonald at brokenpipefilms.com  Tue Apr 20 06:19:02 2004
From: HughMacdonald at brokenpipefilms.com (Hugh Macdonald)
Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 11:19:02 +0100
Subject: Dollar sign ($) on foriegn keyboards? (prothon)
In-Reply-To: <mk3hc.13895$dZ1.10823@fed1read04>
References: <mk3hc.13895$dZ1.10823@fed1read04>
Message-ID: <20040420111902.0764d2dc.HughMacdonald@brokenpipefilms.com>

On Mon, 19 Apr 2004 23:22:10 -0700
"Mark Hahn" <mark at prothon.org> wrote:

> Can people from outside the U.S. tell me if typing the dollar sign
> often would be a problem in writing code?  Is it available and
> somewhat easy to type on international 

Anyone who writes a language like Perl or PHP would use it a lot anyway (all variables start with a symbol, usually $)

-- 
Hugh Macdonald
The Moving Picture Company



From mwh at python.net  Thu Apr 22 10:23:52 2004
From: mwh at python.net (Michael Hudson)
Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2004 14:23:52 GMT
Subject: Deleting objects
References: <b4a8ffb6.0404220608.43177f7d@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <m34qrcozuv.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk>

tkpmep at hotmail.com (Thomas Philips) writes:

[snip]

> Villain dies and executes its destructor (__del__). The game then
> ends. However, when I execute the program in IDLE, IT FINISHES BY
> EXECUTING THE DESTRUCTOR FOR BOTH HERO AND VILLAIN.

Err, __del__ isn't a destructor, it's a finalizer.  It's called by the
Python runtime when it has determined that the object is garbage,
which is usually immediately after the last reference to it is
dropped.

Cheers,
mwh

-- 
  Good? Bad? Strap him into the IETF-approved witch-dunking
  apparatus immediately!                        -- NTK now, 21/07/2000


From roy at panix.com  Mon Apr 19 12:05:13 2004
From: roy at panix.com (Roy Smith)
Date: Mon, 19 Apr 2004 12:05:13 -0400
Subject: equivalent to Java's toString()?
References: <mailman.762.1082385711.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<1087t9hc5vl833b@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <roy-41FC18.12051319042004@reader2.panix.com>

In article <1087t9hc5vl833b at corp.supernews.com>,
 "Michael Geary" <Mike at DeleteThis.Geary.com> wrote:

> Gabriel Cooper wrote:
> > What is the python equivalent to java's toString()?
> >
> > When debugging I want to be able to basically be able to do this:
> >
> >     print MyObjectInstance
> >
> > or
> >     print str(MyObjectInstance)
> >
> > and have it print out formatted output along the lines of:
> >
> >     Object properties: Red=0 Yellow=0 Blue=255
> 
> Define a __str__ method in your class. It works just like toString() in Java
> and JavaScript:
> 
> >>> class MyTest( object ):
> ...     def __str__( self ):
> ...         return 'My Test!'
> ...
> >>> test = MyTest()
> >>> print test
> My Test!
> >>>
> 
> Also see __repr__ for a related method.
> 
> -Mike

Also, you might want to look at the pprint module.  It's not quite what 
you were asking for, but it's worth knowing about if you're doing this 
kind of stuff.


From stefnin at alussinan.org  Thu Apr  8 06:05:28 2004
From: stefnin at alussinan.org (Stéphane Ninin)
Date: 08 Apr 2004 10:05:28 GMT
Subject: shutil.move, permission denied, why ?
References: <Xns94C3B42DA41DEstefninalussinanorg@212.27.42.68>
	<40746c0a$1@news.iconz.co.nz>
Message-ID: <Xns94C57B6DE18B0stefninalussinanorg@212.27.42.71>

Also sprach Colin Brown :

> 
> Some time ago I had a "permission denied" problem on Windows that I
> finally tracked down to os.system duplicating open handles at the
> creation instance! The method I used to locate the problem area was by
> having python fire off an instance of handle.exe (freely available from
> www.sysinternals.com) when the permission error occurred to see what
> else had the file open. 
> 

  Thanks for the idea. It helps.

On this part of the code:
(see <Xns94C49F78550F2stefninalussinanorg at 212.27.42.71> for full test 
script) 

    def read(self,filename):

        from _xmlplus.sax.sax2exts import XMLValParserFactory
        parser = XMLValParserFactory.make_parser()

        dh = DefaultHandler()
        
        parser.setContentHandler(dh)
        parser.setErrorHandler(dh)
        
        f = file(filename,'r')

        
        print 'TestReader B'
        system('handle.exe xml')
        r=raw_input('Press\n')

        
        try:
            parser.parse(f)
        finally:
            print 'CLOSE FILE'
            parser.close()
            parser.reset()
            f.close()
            print 'TestReader C'
            system('handle.exe xml')
            r=raw_input('Press\n')
            print f.closed
            
            
        return 1


I have the following output for a "bad file"
(parser throws exception during parsing):
 

TestReader B

Handle v2.2
Copyright (C) 1997-2004 Mark Russinovich
Sysinternals - www.sysinternals.com

python.exe         pid: 1776   path to test3.xml
CMD.EXE            pid: 1304   path to test3.xml
handle.exe         pid: 1072   path to test3.xml
Press

CLOSE FILE
B1

Handle v2.2
Copyright (C) 1997-2004 Mark Russinovich
Sysinternals - www.sysinternals.com

python.exe         pid: 1776   path to test3.xml
CMD.EXE            pid: 1020   path to test3.xml
handle.exe         pid: 1724   path to test3.xml
Press


... while, for a file which is correctly parsed I have this output:

TestReader B

Handle v2.2
Copyright (C) 1997-2004 Mark Russinovich
Sysinternals - www.sysinternals.com

python.exe         pid: 1324   path to test3.xml
CMD.EXE            pid: 1020   path to test3.xml
handle.exe         pid: 1776   path to test3.xml
Press

CLOSE FILE
TestReader C

Handle v2.2
Copyright (C) 1997-2004 Mark Russinovich
Sysinternals - www.sysinternals.com

No matching handles found.
Press

  ~~~

I am not sure I am interpreting this correctly... 
Even if file is closed (as say f.closed),
handles are still there ?

And if problem comes from the parser (PyXML), I guess I will somehow 
workaround the problem, as I dont want to dig into PyXML code. :) 
(Unless you have some other idea.)
Well, I will also test this week-end if problem also happens on Linux.
(as this code is supposed to run only on Linux,
I will just skip this problem if it works fine on linux)

Thanks for your suggestion.


  Regards,

-- 
Stephane Ninin

   





From rogerb at rogerbinns.com  Wed Apr 28 03:33:17 2004
From: rogerb at rogerbinns.com (Roger Binns)
Date: Wed, 28 Apr 2004 00:33:17 -0700
Subject: Don't understand wxPython ids
References: <408ed938$0$17263$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
	<BOEjc.12559$eZ5.4366@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <1a34m1-fml.ln1@home.rogerbinns.com>

Greg Krohn wrote:
> I can only think of one reasn why they chose to use ids in the first
> place.

Don't forget how old wxWidgets is, and that it has to interoperate
with the underlying toolkits.

> Assigning many objects the same id allows you to use one EVT_*
> call for those objects. But is that really a useful feature? Who knows?

Here is how I use the same id in multiple locations.  I can have a
menu entry, a toolbar button, and a button inside some HTML all
invoke the same function.  The only coupling between them is
the id number.

You can also use id ranges in wxPython 2.5 which makes it easy to
send a whole bunch of different items to the same handler.

  class FooFrame(wx.Frame):
      ID_FILE_DELETE=wx.NewId()

      def _init_(...):
          ...
          menu.Append(self.ID_FILE_DELETE, "&Delete", "Delete the file")
          ....
          toolbar.AddLabelTool(self.ID_FILE_DELETE, "Delete", ....)
          ....
          wx.EVT_MENU(self, self.ID_FILE_DELETE, self.OnFileDelete)
          ....
          wx.EVT_BUTTON(self, self.ID_FILE_DELETE, self.OnFileDelete)
          ....

       def OnStateChange(...):
          ....
          self.GetToolBar().EnableTool(self.ID_FILE_DELETE, True)
          ....

In my HTML:

   <wxp class="Button" module="wx">
   <param name="label"   value="Delete ..."/>
   <param name="id"      value="gui.FooFrame.ID_FILE_DELETE"/>
   </wxp>

Roger




From peter.maas at mplusr.de  Wed Apr 14 06:04:47 2004
From: peter.maas at mplusr.de (Peter Maas)
Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2004 12:04:47 +0200
Subject: spherical coordinates
In-Reply-To: <20040414111334.34b5d225@pistache.sara.nl>
References: <20040414111334.34b5d225@pistache.sara.nl>
Message-ID: <c5j28h$j3m$1@swifty.westend.com>

Bram Stolk wrote:
> Which module could I use if I want to do spherical coordinates in Python?

math. Formulas:

--- 2D

r = sqrt(x**2 + y**2)
phi = atan(y/x)

x = r*cos(phi)
y = r*sin(phi)

--- 3D

r = sqrt(x**2 + y**2 + z**2)
phi = atan(y/x)
theta = atan(z/sqrt(x**2+y**2)

x = r*cos(phi)*cos(theta)
y = r*sin(phi)*cos(theta)
z = r*sin(theta)

Mit freundlichen Gruessen,

Peter Maas

-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Peter Maas, M+R Infosysteme, D-52070 Aachen, Hubert-Wienen-Str. 24
Tel +49-241-93878-0 Fax +49-241-93878-20 eMail peter.maas at mplusr.de
-------------------------------------------------------------------


From peter.maas at mplusr.de  Fri Apr  2 06:34:37 2004
From: peter.maas at mplusr.de (Peter Maas)
Date: Fri, 02 Apr 2004 13:34:37 +0200
Subject: Python conference slogan
In-Reply-To: <mailman.259.1080890435.20120.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.189.1080759511.20120.python-list@python.org>	<kmjsj1-89u.ln1@snout.lairds.org>	<c4glmq$j1i$1@swifty.westend.com>	<30260531.0404010833.1b834032@posting.google.com>	<406C4DDF.5000907@zope.com>
	<mailman.259.1080890435.20120.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <c4jj1i$f6g$1@swifty.westend.com>

Neil Benn wrote:
> 'We are the coders who say nee' - from the knight in the holy grail
> 'Good god man, I've thrown you an exception  It's nothing a mere 
> NoneType' holy grail again
> 
>    The joy of being English is you grow up with this stuff!

These slogans are meaningless to (Monty) Python outsiders. As I
understand this thread there is a need for a slogan that is short,
not too hard to understand and unforgettable (probably a definition
of the word slogan). Python insiders don't need a slogan at all.

Mit freundlichen Gruessen,

Peter Maas

-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Peter Maas, M+R Infosysteme, D-52070 Aachen, Hubert-Wienen-Str. 24
Tel +49-241-93878-0 Fax +49-241-93878-20 eMail peter.maas at mplusr.de
-------------------------------------------------------------------


From peter at engcorp.com  Thu Apr 29 10:06:54 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Thu, 29 Apr 2004 10:06:54 -0400
Subject: reading and removing first x bytes of a file
In-Reply-To: <c6r1rc$kl5$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu>
References: <c6r1rc$kl5$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu>
Message-ID: <XPCdncN34ahjlgzdRVn-tw@powergate.ca>

bart_nessux wrote:

> I have some Macbinary files on a PC. I want to recursively read these 
> files and remove the first 128 bytes of the files if they contain the 
> macbinary header info. I know how to read directories recursively, but 
> how would I read the first 128 bytes of each file in the path?

os.listdir() can return a list of the names in the path.  You
can use os.path.isfile() to check that a given name doesn't
refer to a subdirectory.

Once you've opened one of the files for reading, just use .read(128)
to get a string containing the first 128 bytes from the file.

-Peter


From bram at nospam.sara.nl  Wed Apr 14 09:51:00 2004
From: bram at nospam.sara.nl (Bram Stolk)
Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2004 15:51:00 +0200
Subject: Pygame
References: <c5jdv2$s4$1@orkan.itea.ntnu.no>
Message-ID: <20040414155100.6c56e1e3@pistache.sara.nl>

On Wed, 14 Apr 2004 15:22:42 +0200
"Alexander R?dseth" <alexanro at stud.ntnu.no> wrote:

> Hi!
> 
> Why isn't Pygame a part of Python?

Because PyGame has too many dependencies.
Adding it to Python itself would make Python less portable.

> 
> Cheers,
>    Alexander R_dseth
> 
> 


-- 
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 Bram Stolk, VR Engineer.
 SARA Academic Computing Services Amsterdam, PO Box 94613, 1090 GP  AMSTERDAM
 email: bram at nospam.sara.nl   Phone +31-20-5923059  Fax +31-20-6683167

"For the costs of subsidized agriculture in the EU, we can have all 56 million
 European cows fly around the world. First Class." - J. Norberg
------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From anton at vredegoor.doge.nl  Mon Apr  5 05:29:14 2004
From: anton at vredegoor.doge.nl (Anton Vredegoor)
Date: Mon, 05 Apr 2004 11:29:14 +0200
Subject: Working with bytes.
References: <406EE606.4000604@yahoo.com>
	<mailman.308.1081013778.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<406f33b6$0$30963$3a628fcd@reader1.nntp.hccnet.nl>
	<wzk70vrbnv.fsf@Ordesa.local>
Message-ID: <4071273d$0$132$3a628fcd@reader1.nntp.hccnet.nl>

Piet van Oostrum <piet at cs.uu.nl> wrote:

>AV>  

[snip]

>Which includes quite a few NON-ASCII characters. 
>So what is ASCII-compliant about it?
>You can't store 7 bits per byte and still be ASCII-compliant. At least if
>you don't want to include control characters.

Thanks, and yes you are right. I thought that getting rid of control
codes just meant switching to the high bit codes, but of course
control codes are part of the lower bit population and can't be
removed that way. Worse than that: high bit codes are not
ASCII-compliant at all!

However the code below has the 8'th and 7'th bit always set to 0 and 1
respectively, so it should produce ASCII-compliant output using 6 bits
per byte.

I wonder whether it would be possible to use more than six bits per
byte but less than seven? There seem to be some character codes left
and these could be used too?

Anton

from itertools import islice

def _bits(i):
    return [('01'[i>>j & 1]) for j in range(8)][::-1] 

_table = dict([(chr(i),_bits(i)) for i in range(256)])

def _bitstream(bytes):
    for byte in bytes:
        for bit in _table[byte]:
            yield bit

def _drop_first_two(gen):
    while 1:
        gen.next()
        gen.next()
        for x in islice(gen,6):
            yield x

def sixes(bytes):
    """ stream normal bytes to bytes where bits 8,7  are 0,1 """
    gen = _bitstream(bytes)
    while 1:
        R = list(islice(gen,6))
        if not R:  break
        s = '01'+ "".join(R) + '0' * (6-len(R))
        yield chr(int(s,2))

def eights(bytes,n):
    """ the reverse of the sixes function :-| """
    gen = _bitstream(bytes)
    df = _drop_first_two(gen)
    for i in xrange(n):
        s =  ''.join(islice(df,8))
        yield chr(int(s,2))
        
def test():
    from random import randint
    size = 20
    R = [chr(randint(0,255)) for i in xrange(size)]
    bytes = ''.join(R)
    sx =  ''.join(sixes(bytes))
    check = ''.join(eights(sx,size))
    assert  check == bytes
    print sx

if __name__ == '__main__': 
    test()

output:
   
VMtdh[LII~Qexdyg}xFRhXRIVx



From grante at visi.com  Fri Apr  9 10:10:06 2004
From: grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards)
Date: 09 Apr 2004 14:10:06 GMT
Subject: surface fitting library for Python?
References: <40748902$0$17253$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
	<60dfb6f6.0404081300.78bbe0f9@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <4076aebe$0$17266$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>

On 2004-04-08, Carl Banks <imbosol at aerojockey.com> wrote:
> Grant Edwards <grante at visi.com> wrote in message news:<40748902$0$17253$a1866201 at newsreader.visi.com>...
>> I'm looking for a surface fitting library for Python. 
>> 
>> Something like the least-squares module in scientific python,
>> except I want to fit a surface (z = f(x,y)) instead of a curve
>> (y = f(x)).
>
>
> Idea: see if you can use the versatility of Python to fool SciPy into
> fitting a surface when it thinks it's fitting a curve.

Cool -- that's the plan for now...

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow!  Did you move a lot
                                  at               of KOREAN STEAK KNIVES this
                               visi.com            trip, Dingy?


From __peter__ at web.de  Thu Apr 29 12:54:54 2004
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Thu, 29 Apr 2004 18:54:54 +0200
Subject: Generic constructors and duplication of internal Python logic
References: <87ekqq41ya.fsf@pobox.com> <c5lfi6$cit$00$1@news.t-online.com>
	<87oepnzlbp.fsf@pobox.com> <c62kqc$glm$07$1@news.t-online.com>
	<87k707elth.fsf@pobox.com> <c6ai7t$o2c$03$1@news.t-online.com>
	<c6alei$hv4$05$1@news.t-online.com> <87smetxjjj.fsf@pobox.com>
	<c6rak5$ptf$04$2@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <c6rc0u$koe$03$1@news.t-online.com>

Turns out it has already been done with more magic (no explicit locals()
call) in http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Cookbook/Python/Recipe/157572

Peter




From OlafMeding at compuserve.com  Thu Apr 29 09:56:48 2004
From: OlafMeding at compuserve.com (Olaf Meding)
Date: 29 Apr 2004 06:56:48 -0700
Subject: makepy generating a file versus a directory
Message-ID: <9e5ea2c4.0404290556.35c51c64@posting.google.com>

When does the makepy utility generate a .py file and when a directory?
 And what decided if a directory or a file is generated?

What is the difference between a file and a directory (both named
after the uuid in the IDL file)?

Most of the time the code below generates a file called
BF79B6C5-47BE-11D2-BACD-006008060A3A.py.  But one time it generated a
directory with that same name.  This directory contained several .py
files.

Both the .py file and the directory are generated at:
"C:\Python23\Lib\site-packages\win32com\gen_py".

Here is the Python code:
  from win32com.client import gencache        
  gencache.EnsureModule('{BF79B6C5-47BE-11D2-BACD-006008060A3A}', 0,
1, 0)

Thanks so much for your help.

Olaf


From jcarlson at uci.edu  Thu Apr  1 14:37:47 2004
From: jcarlson at uci.edu (Josiah Carlson)
Date: Thu, 01 Apr 2004 11:37:47 -0800
Subject: From python-dev, space vs. tab controversy finally settled
In-Reply-To: <ibSac.2883$qP2.9917@news.indigo.ie>
References: <BrPac.5729$xw6.2105@fe1.columbus.rr.com>
	<c4ggrj$ri6$1@news.service.uci.edu>
	<ibSac.2883$qP2.9917@news.indigo.ie>
Message-ID: <c4hr8g$7td$1@news.service.uci.edu>

> Spoil-sport!
> 
> You could have at least given it a few *minutes* to get some traction!

It was right at the top for the last message I read last night.  It was 
unlucky.  Sorry to the original poster for ruining the joke so early.

  - Josiah


From pedietz at west.com  Fri Apr 16 10:39:11 2004
From: pedietz at west.com (Phil Dietz)
Date: 16 Apr 2004 07:39:11 -0700
Subject: Goodbye TCL
References: <0LudnSads6NmpuPdRVn-vw@centurytel.net>
Message-ID: <21ccedf1.0404160639.14c2d852@posting.google.com>

Forget OO...
TCL still doesn't have a standard database API in the core yet....


From johnc_tan at hotmail.com  Fri Apr 16 14:34:28 2004
From: johnc_tan at hotmail.com (JT)
Date: 16 Apr 2004 11:34:28 -0700
Subject: Initializing Python in Optimized mode from C++
Message-ID: <dd7b0c71.0404161034.3173e132@posting.google.com>

Hi,

When embedding Python in C++, is there anyway to initialize the
interpreter so that it runs in optimized mode, equivalent to
specifying the -O flag when running the interpreter from the command
line?

Thanks,
John


From wallacethinmintr at eircom.net  Wed Apr  7 16:18:04 2004
From: wallacethinmintr at eircom.net (Russell Wallace)
Date: Wed, 07 Apr 2004 20:18:04 GMT
Subject: Are line continuations needed?
References: <407409ef.82801353@news.eircom.net>
	<mff8701c2v16qd36e4sqs1uasfbhr3e7np@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <407461ac.105265095@news.eircom.net>

On Wed, 07 Apr 2004 17:53:00 GMT, Christopher Koppler
<klapotec at chello.at> wrote:

>On Wed, 07 Apr 2004 14:05:29 GMT, wallacethinmintr at eircom.net (Russell
>Wallace) wrote:
>
>>Python lets you continue a single logical line across more than one
>>physical line, either by putting a \ at the end or letting it happen
>>automatically with an incomplete infix operator.
>
>I don't have any ready examples, but I do occasionally need it, if
>only for readability porpoises, or more often to fit a line to a
>certain length limit. If a parenthetical expression will work, and
>doesn't look stranger (really can't think of a case), I'll use that.

Okay, thanks.

>But problems there'll surely be - with legacy code compatibility.

*nod* I was more asking whether it was a good idea to include it
originally than whether it could be removed now, though I suppose
since 3.0 is supposed to be breaking with backward compatibility,
there's the question of whether it should be retained there.

>Not really it isn't ;-)

^.^

-- 
"Sore wa himitsu desu."
To reply by email, remove
the small snack from address.
http://www.esatclear.ie/~rwallace


From osv at javad.ru  Wed Apr 21 09:53:43 2004
From: osv at javad.ru (Sergei Organov)
Date: 21 Apr 2004 17:53:43 +0400
Subject: CamelCase versus wide_names (Prothon)
References: <UHxfc.9323$dZ1.3740@fed1read04>
	<6ee58e07.0404192141.2229efd6@posting.google.com>
	<c62e05$6oraj$1@ID-99293.news.uni-berlin.de>
	<i93hc.13733$dZ1.8818@fed1read04>
	<mailman.789.1082458674.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<1082549174.163233@ns.topconrd.ru>
	<cPGdnXbI_Y458Rvd4p2dnA@powergate.ca>
Message-ID: <1082555623.345996@ns.topconrd.ru>

Peter Hansen <peter at engcorp.com> writes:
> Sergei Organov wrote:
> > Yet nobody mentioned that we don't have lower-case digits ;)
> 
> > usb201_driver <-> usb201Driver <-> usb2??Driver
> 
> usbTwoOhOneDriver ?  ;-)

Who would call underscored version "wide names" then? :)


From tjreedy at udel.edu  Mon Apr 19 14:36:01 2004
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Mon, 19 Apr 2004 14:36:01 -0400
Subject: outline-style sorting algorithm
References: <71650A6F73F1D411BE8000805F65E3CB3B3A4D@SRV-03>
Message-ID: <c6166b$hg3$1@sea.gmane.org>


<jwsacksteder at ramprecision.com> wrote in message
news:71650A6F73F1D411BE8000805F65E3CB3B3A4D at SRV-03...
> I have a need to sort a list of elements that represent sections of a
> document in dot-separated notation. The built in sort does the wrong
thing.

Which is to say, the standard alphabetical thing ;-).

> Obviously 1.20.1 should be after 1.9 if we look at this as dot-delimited
> integers, not as decimal numbers.

It it a well known problem that left-justified variable-length number
representations in strings do not sort well when the strings are sorted in
the standard manner.  Even without dots, directory listings will give you

file1
file10
...
file19
file2
file20
...
file29
file3
etc.

One solution is a custom compare or sort algorithm as others have
suggested.  The other is adjustment of the strings by left padding numbers
with spaces or 0s so that they end up right justified to the same column.
Then the standard alphabetical sort does what you want.  For instance,
Windows scandisk, when it recovers fragments, labels them

file001
file002
etc

so that they sort correctly.  In your case, 1.09 would sort before 1.10,
let alone 1.20.  Your choice.

Terry J. Reedy






From peter at engcorp.com  Sat Apr 24 10:54:07 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Sat, 24 Apr 2004 10:54:07 -0400
Subject: command-line args
In-Reply-To: <408A7B35.7040702@mlug.missouri.edu>
Message-ID: <E1BHOXh-00004r-AL@mail.python.org>

Michael [mailto:mogmios at mlug.missouri.edu] wrote:
> Peter Hansen wrote:
> > Create an empty module called "globals" and import that wherever 
> > needed.  Populate it with settings from the command-line parsing 
> > stage.  Get fancier and put defaults in there to begin with, and 
> > override them only if specified in the command-line parsing area.  
> > Flavour as needed...
> 
> What do you do about multiple processes (of the same program) 
> running at once? Save to /tmp/<pid>/globals.py or something like that?

Why would you save anything?  If you're just parsing command-line
arguments, the settings are not persistent, are they?  Just
kept in memory for the duration of the current program.  If you
have multiple processes, each gets its own command line arguments
and thus its own in-memory values from globals.py. 

If you are actually interested in persistent, you'll need to 
expand on your original question, I think, because talking 
about "command line argument parsing" generally doesn't 
involve persistence, for most people.

-Peter




From __peter__ at web.de  Wed Apr  7 12:55:52 2004
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Wed, 07 Apr 2004 18:55:52 +0200
Subject: Are line continuations needed?
References: <407409ef.82801353@news.eircom.net>
	<c518tu$k4b$1@swifty.westend.com>
Message-ID: <c51bqt$v1p$04$1@news.t-online.com>

Peter Maas wrote:

> Russell Wallace wrote:
>> Python lets you continue a single logical line across more than one
>> physical line, either by putting a \ at the end or letting it happen
>> automatically with an incomplete infix operator.
>> 
>> I'm wondering how often is this feature needed? Would there be any
>> problems if it weren't part of the language?
> 
> Just had this example:
> 
> d = { 'key1' : 'A very very long string of several hundred '\
>            'characters. I could use a multi-line string but '\
>            'then either left white space would be part of the '\
>            'string or I would have to align it at column 0 '\
>            '(ugly). I could embed it into a pair of brackets '\
>            'but I see no advantage over \\. Finally I could '\
>            'put this string on a single line (also ugly and hard '\
>            'to read).'
>        ...
>      }

>>> d = {1: "Hi Peter, "
...         "what do you "
...         "think of this?"}

Peter



From martin at v.loewis.de  Thu Apr  8 14:51:18 2004
From: martin at v.loewis.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?=22Martin_v=2E_L=F6wis=22?=)
Date: Thu, 08 Apr 2004 20:51:18 +0200
Subject: print u"\u0432": why is this so hard? UnciodeEncodeError
In-Reply-To: <eppstein-55126D.00202008042004@news.service.uci.edu>
References: <cpa4qrvb529.fsf@cabernet.nelson.monkey.org>
	<c52lu9$j8c$03$1@news.t-online.com>
	<eppstein-55126D.00202008042004@news.service.uci.edu>
Message-ID: <c546v4$bi5$02$1@news.t-online.com>

David Eppstein wrote:
> Py2.3 sure doesn't discover the encoding of my terminal automatically:
> 
> hyperbolic ~: python
> Python 2.3 (#1, Sep 13 2003, 00:49:11) 
> [GCC 3.3 20030304 (Apple Computer, Inc. build 1495)] on darwin

Ah, Darwin. You lose.

If anybody can tell me how to programmatically discover the encoding
of Terminal.App, I'll happily incorporate a change into a 2.3.x release.

Regards,
Martin



From peter at engcorp.com  Wed Apr 28 08:56:08 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Wed, 28 Apr 2004 08:56:08 -0400
Subject: Is Perl *that* good?
In-Reply-To: <mailman.68.1083126869.25742.python-list@python.org>
References: <DE1CF2B4FEC4A342BF62B6B2B334601E56206C@opus.amorhq.net>
	<mailman.68.1083126869.25742.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <cM-dndBYm-x0NBLd4p2dnA@powergate.ca>

Michael wrote:

>> I wish Python had won, as well. But time is linear (in my mind). I now
>> wish only that we could leverage the similarity of JS and Python
>> (execution and binding models) into more Python users. Marketing needs
>> to run with the line, "So you know Javascript? Then you know Python!"
>>
> I wish Python could be ran inside a browser as a client-side scripting 
> language. I've seen it done but it'd be awesome to seen done properly 
> and intergrated into something like Mozilla.

Although at that point we would unfortunately run smack into
the security flaws Python has in this area.  If the "I've
seen it done" above refers to the existing support for
this in pywin32 (formerly win32all), you probably know how
it was disabled since it is inherently (with current Python)
unsafe.

-Peter


From ngps at netmemetic.com  Mon Apr 12 10:17:11 2004
From: ngps at netmemetic.com (Ng Pheng Siong)
Date: 12 Apr 2004 14:17:11 GMT
Subject: solaris install of python
References: <c5b8nr+t2jj@eGroups.com>
	<mailman.524.1081686493.20120.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <c5e8d7$bqk$1@mawar.singnet.com.sg>

According to Skip Montanaro  <skip at pobox.com>:
> 
>     gotcha> has anyone installed pythong on solaris 8 before, 
> 
> Yes, plenty of times.

I received a query in the mail about a Solaris installation of M2Crypto:

bash-2.03$ ldd *.so
        libssl.so.0.9.7 =>       /esdev/ssl/lib/libssl.so.0.9.7
        libcrypto.so.0.9.7 =>    /esdev/ssl/lib/libcrypto.so.0.9.7
        libgcc_s.so.1 =>         /usr/local/lib/libgcc_s.so.1
        libsocket.so.1 =>        /usr/lib/libsocket.so.1
        libnsl.so.1 =>   /usr/lib/libnsl.so.1
        libdl.so.1 =>    /usr/lib/libdl.so.1
        libc.so.1 =>     /usr/lib/libc.so.1
        libmp.so.2 =>    /usr/lib/libmp.so.2
        /usr/platform/SUNW,UltraAX-i2/lib/libc_psr.so.1

On my FreeBSD boxen, I get

./__m2crypto.so:
        libssl.so.3 => /usr/lib/libssl.so.3 (0x28134000)
        libcrypto.so.3 => /usr/lib/libcrypto.so.3 (0x28163000)

The sender (hi!, if you're reading this ;-), is wondering if the output is
typical for a Python extension on a Solaris box, and if the presence of the
libgcc_s.so line is "normal"? 

Any idea? 

TIA. Cheers.


-- 
Ng Pheng Siong <ngps at netmemetic.com> 

http://firewall.rulemaker.net -+- Firewall Change Management & Version Control
http://sandbox.rulemaker.net/ngps -+- ZServerSSL/Zope Windows Installers


From noah at noah.org  Mon Apr  5 17:51:54 2004
From: noah at noah.org (Noah)
Date: 5 Apr 2004 14:51:54 -0700
Subject: What is the correct method for installing modules on old Python
	1.5.2?
Message-ID: <c9d82136.0404051351.220dd9ca@posting.google.com>

I have a module that I currently install using the distutils module, but
I also need to document how to install the module on old Python 1.5.2.
I used to know how to do this, but now I've forgotten and I can't seem to
find any documentation on the process anymore. I know that I have to copy
my module to site-packages, but I think I also need to add a line to a
text file in the python home directory. Can someone list the steps for me?

Yours,
Noah


From mogmios at mlug.missouri.edu  Wed Apr 28 13:14:29 2004
From: mogmios at mlug.missouri.edu (Michael)
Date: Wed, 28 Apr 2004 10:14:29 -0700
Subject: Is Perl *that* good?
In-Reply-To: <du7k700w7k5.fsf@mozart.cc.tut.fi>
References: <c6ich0$c5mee$1@ID-205437.news.uni-berlin.de>	<ECCjc.30580$Vp5.25085@fe2.columbus.rr.com>	<roy-15912E.20355127042004@reader2.panix.com>	<XwEjc.31513$Vp5.16074@fe2.columbus.rr.com>	<108v74768o9sb9f@corp.supernews.com>
	<du7k700w7k5.fsf@mozart.cc.tut.fi>
Message-ID: <408FE675.1050605@mlug.missouri.edu>


>BTW, nobody seems to miss Perl libs and CPAN anymore. A few years ago
>most of the complaints regarding python were that perl has more
>libraries. This is a good sign :-).
>
IMO, CPAN is still the biggest benefit to using Python. It'd be great to 
see a project to port all of CPAN functionality into standard Python 
modules.




From mhammond at keypoint.com.au  Thu Apr 29 01:08:42 2004
From: mhammond at keypoint.com.au (Mark Hammond)
Date: Thu, 29 Apr 2004 15:08:42 +1000
Subject: asp script engine registrition
In-Reply-To: <mailman.97.1083183109.25742.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.97.1083183109.25742.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <c6q2l5$1gc9$1@arachne.labyrinth.net.au>

jianchiwei wrote:
> question:
> I run 
> c:\python23\Lib\site-packages\win32comext\axscript\client\pyscript.py
> and it told me
> Registered: Python
> Registration of Python ActiveX Scripting Engine complete.
> 
> But, when I run a asp script
> 
> <%@LANGUAGE=Python%>
> <HTML>
> <head></head>
> <body>
> <h1>Python - Test</h1>
> 
> </body>
> </html>
> 
> I still get
>     HTTP/1.1 500 Server Error
> caused by the first line of code "<%@LANGUAGE=Python%>".
> It seems to me that python script engine is not correctly registered.
> Could someone help me on this please?

Do the sample .asp files work?  If so, then you should be able to work 
out what is wrong by comparing them.  If not, try registering the engine 
with "--debug" on the command-line, then use Pythonwin's "Tools->Remote 
Trace Collector" - hopefully you will see a traceback with the specific 
problem.

Mark.


From http  Fri Apr  2 14:40:04 2004
From: http (Paul Rubin)
Date: 02 Apr 2004 11:40:04 -0800
Subject: Simple text markup (-> HTML)
References: <tyf3c7m1zic.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
Message-ID: <7x7jwy5fu3.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

Please don't invent yet another markup language.  It gets incredibly
difficult to keep them all straight.  There's some standard being
developed for Wiki markup.  Why don't you use that.  The stuff in your
example already looks pretty similar to wikipedia markup.  Another
idea is use Texinfo.


From mwh at python.net  Mon Apr 26 08:37:04 2004
From: mwh at python.net (Michael Hudson)
Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2004 12:37:04 GMT
Subject: Magic methods in extension types
References: <tyfisfnt2zd.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
	<m3isfnm1bg.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk>
	<tyfekqbt02c.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
Message-ID: <m3ekqanceo.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk>

Jacek Generowicz <jacek.generowicz at cern.ch> writes:

> Michael Hudson <mwh at python.net> writes:
> 
> > Not finding the tp_as_number->nb_inplace_add field?
> 
> ( ... or tp_as_sequence ... )
> 
> I was afraid you (someone) was going to say that.

Why?

> > I think *all* magic methods correspond to slots in (or near) the type
> > object -- it's practically the definition of "magic method"!
> 
> Hmmm
> 
>     >>> class foo:
>     ...     def __iadd__(self,other):
>     ...         print "__iadd__ running"
>     ...         return self
>     ... 
>     >>> f = foo()
>     >>> f += 2
>     __iadd__ running
> 
> I'd be surprised if I've added __iadd__ to a type object here, yet it
> seems to work.

Well, the type of old-style classes has something in it's
tp_as_number->nb_inplace_add slot that looks in the class dictionary
for an __iadd__ method.

If you'd made that a new-style class, you would be surprised!

> Python manages to map "+=" to the method called "__iadd__" in
> user-defined classes, but not for extension types. What is the
> essential difference that makes that mapping work in one case but
> not in the other?

Well, for old-style classes a whole bunch of code like:

BINARY_INPLACE(instance_ior, "or", PyNumber_InPlaceOr)
BINARY_INPLACE(instance_ixor, "xor", PyNumber_InPlaceXor)
BINARY_INPLACE(instance_iand, "and", PyNumber_InPlaceAnd)
BINARY_INPLACE(instance_ilshift, "lshift", PyNumber_InPlaceLshift)
BINARY_INPLACE(instance_irshift, "rshift", PyNumber_InPlaceRshift)
BINARY_INPLACE(instance_iadd, "add", PyNumber_InPlaceAdd)
BINARY_INPLACE(instance_isub, "sub", PyNumber_InPlaceSubtract)
BINARY_INPLACE(instance_imul, "mul", PyNumber_InPlaceMultiply)
BINARY_INPLACE(instance_idiv, "div", PyNumber_InPlaceDivide)
BINARY_INPLACE(instance_imod, "mod", PyNumber_InPlaceRemainder)
BINARY_INPLACE(instance_ifloordiv, "floordiv", PyNumber_InPlaceFloorDivide)
BINARY_INPLACE(instance_itruediv, "truediv", PyNumber_InPlaceTrueDivide)

and for new-style classes much hair in typeobject.c:type_new and
therein called functions.  Extension types don't go through type_new
and are expected to go the other way round, in a sense: define
something in tp_as_number->nb_inplace_add and a wrapper called
__iadd__ will be created for you.

Cheers,
mwh

-- 
  Windows installation day one.  Getting rid of the old windows 
  was easy - they fell apart quite happily, and certainly wont 
  be re-installable anywhere else.   -- http://www.linux.org.uk/diary/
                                       (not *that* sort of windows...)


From belred1 at yahoo.com  Thu Apr 22 10:27:48 2004
From: belred1 at yahoo.com (Bryan)
Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2004 14:27:48 GMT
Subject: AOP use cases
In-Reply-To: <c68fj5$7bt$1@news1.wdf.sap-ag.de>
References: <84fc4588.0404140106.3fa0c55@posting.google.com>
	<slrnc7q1ss.1aa.alf@largo.fayauffre.org>
	<cb035744.0404141130.170f51c4@posting.google.com>
	<slrnc7sgat.vp.alf@largo.fayauffre.org>
	<cb035744.0404160442.2f0b1661@posting.google.com>
	<0pydnSB4WYuieuLdRVn-hQ@powergate.ca>
	<tyfbrlkv3ae.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
	<XYmdnVLB9rjbARrdRVn-vg@powergate.ca>
	<tyf7jw8utoo.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
	<c68fj5$7bt$1@news1.wdf.sap-ag.de>
Message-ID: <4087D662.6010209@yahoo.com>

> 
> Those of you using XML might want to visualize the program as a DOM tree and
> AOP as applying a XSLT stylesheet. (Now visualize applying several different
> stylesheets in arbitrary order)
> 
> 
> Daniel
> 


thank you for this explanation... it's the best explanation i've heard yet and now i have a grasp and can visualize what 
AOP is.

bryan


From tim.golden at viacom-outdoor.co.uk  Wed Apr 28 09:44:30 2004
From: tim.golden at viacom-outdoor.co.uk (Tim Golden)
Date: Wed, 28 Apr 2004 14:44:30 +0100
Subject: Path ... where is my application's home dir?
Message-ID: <F1921F85572CB04D9F55B14BDC76B3E443485A@tdi_nt9.internal.viacom-outdoor.co.uk>

>I want to store a file in the application directory. What is 
>the easiest 
>way to figure out, where my application is situated?
>
>sys.argv[0] does not work for my purposes... do you have any 
>other ideas.

a) Why doesn't argv[0] work?

b) What O/S are you running?

TJG


________________________________________________________________________
This e-mail has been scanned for all viruses by Star Internet. The
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From roy at panix.com  Mon Apr 19 18:56:21 2004
From: roy at panix.com (Roy Smith)
Date: Mon, 19 Apr 2004 18:56:21 -0400
Subject: Difficulty Finding Python Developers
References: <65cbc3dd.0404140641.3501fde8@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <roy-A69D29.18562119042004@reader2.panix.com>

pm_mon at yahoo.com (Paul Morrow) wrote:
> We've worked hard to convince our company to migrate our core
> applications to Python, and now we're looking for a Python developer
> in Atlanta to handle a short-term (approx. 3 month) project.  But our
> initial searches have been fairly unsuccessful.  We haven't actually
> posted a job on Monster, but we have been talking with various
> headhunters in our area and they don't have many resumes that show
> Python experience.  An so now, of course, mgt is wondering whether
> selecting Python was a mistake.
> 
> As anyone had a similar experience?  Suggestions?

I'm guessing this is your ad:

Company: Loyaltyworks, Inc.
Location: Atlanta, GA 30305
Salary/Wage: 45.00 - 55.00 USD /year
Status: Per Diem, Temporary/Contract/Project

I think you'd do better if you were willing to pay a bit more.  Most 
developers find it difficult to pay the rent on $55 a year. :-)


From versy59 at yandex.ru  Thu Apr 29 15:51:15 2004
From: versy59 at yandex.ru (Alex Yakovlev)
Date: Thu, 29 Apr 2004 23:51:15 +0400
Subject: MATLAB2Python
References: <D2Xjc.28117$Qc.1080799@twister1.libero.it>
Message-ID: <opr68hfpjsffkx48@news.yandex.ru>

> I'm a moderately experienced programmer in Matlab, and looking for a
> free computational language (Matlab is *REALLY* expensive for an
> individual, like me).
> I came across Python (actually Scipy) and immediately felt
> comfortable with the interface and syntax.

May be SciLab ? It's not Python, it's free Mathlab-compatible pakage.
http://scilabsoft.inria.fr/


From pedronis at bluewin.ch  Mon Apr 19 10:45:37 2004
From: pedronis at bluewin.ch (Samuele Pedroni)
Date: Mon, 19 Apr 2004 16:45:37 +0200
Subject: [Python-Dev] PEP 329: Treating Builtins as Constants in
 the Standard Library
In-Reply-To: <200404191456.14865.gmccaughan@synaptics-uk.com>
References: <5.2.1.1.0.20040419154633.02d12be8@pop.bluewin.ch>
	<5.2.1.1.0.20040419154633.02d12be8@pop.bluewin.ch>
Message-ID: <5.2.1.1.0.20040419161441.02d12688@pop.bluewin.ch>

At 13:56 19.04.2004 +0000, Gareth McCaughan wrote:
>On Monday 2004-04-19 14:49, Samuele Pedroni wrote:
>
> > Raymond, could you  please try to tame your speed obsession without
> > devising even more hacks and pissing in other people's pool.
>
>What a gratuitously obnoxious and pointless reply. If you have
>reason to think Raymond's proposal, if implemented, will cause
>trouble, then show it. If not, then why shouldn't he work on
>making Python faster if he wants to?

he's proposing an hack that would speed up CPython and slow down Jython
(because it would result in a no-op but OTOH he would like to remove the code
when some globals are bound to locals for speed reason. Of course that's 
not nice too
but replacing a hack with another is just sort of a win. Honestly there are 
probably
very convoluted ways to make this, in this form, a non no-op on Jython too, 
not that I would like to
implement them or that Raymond cared).

if he has an elegant proposal that works for all of Python that would be a 
proposal, this
seems just a hack.

[Not that I particularly like this kind of semi-overt mud slinging] Other 
people do not completely share Raymond's design taste, so to say, in fact 
they have politely responded to single proposals, OTOH although it was a 
bit over-rudely formulated, I think it was the case to bring to the day-light
that that is creating some real tension.

PS: I'm starting to be really annoyed by the fact that Jython is often 
cited good PR
but a 2nd class citizen for all the rest. I'm aware of the practical 
circumstances of why that's the case  in some occassions, OTOH we are 
mostly all investing our free time on Python activities, it would be nice 
if we showed respect beyond just the forms and politeness. I'm back from 
the ACCU which was fun but tiring and also an occasion of some related heat 
taking. All I was looking forward is restarting
to finish the new-style class work (started in December and January) in 
Jython,after the stop because of working on the negotations for the PyPy EU 
proposal together with the others PyPy people, which we hope will conclude 
positively for the people working on it and looking forward to restart 
making PyPy a real concrete contribution to Python future. 




From t2wu at ucsd.edu  Thu Apr  8 06:30:54 2004
From: t2wu at ucsd.edu (Timothy Wu)
Date: Thu, 08 Apr 2004 18:30:54 +0800
Subject: A beginner's question on thread
In-Reply-To: <1081316259.664569@yasure>
References: <mailman.382.1081232119.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<1081316259.664569@yasure>
Message-ID: <407529DE.6050101@ucsd.edu>

Donn Cave wrote:
> Well, that's the deal.  Use threads to solve a problem, and now
> you have two problems.  
> 
> I'd probably do it the way Aurelio Martin proposed, with I/O to
> the socket thread.  It's much neater than whacking the thread,
> which is the alternative.
> 
> I wouldn't necessarily use threads in the first place, though.
> I think it really depends on the user interface - usually that
> has to be the dispatch core of the application, and if it's
> built for threads, then there you go.  Typically there will be
> some provision for dispatch on an I/O channel like a socket.
> If you're writing your own user interface, probably just reading
> and writing to the tty, and the socket thread is going to be
> the one and lonely extra thread - then don't do it, I'd say.
> Use select.select, or a package like asyncore or twisted or
> whatever (not very familiar with that territory, I just use select.)

I think Roger Binns's setDaemon() suggestion works for me. =)
Thanks for suggestion the other options. I'll take a look at asnycore or 
twisted when I have time or perhaps for other projects. Since from what 
I read somewhere else, it doesn't seem like Python thread's performance 
is exceptional.

Timothy



From mwh at python.net  Wed Apr 14 12:34:46 2004
From: mwh at python.net (Michael Hudson)
Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2004 16:34:46 GMT
Subject: Wrapper round x86 Assembler
References: <8089854e.0404082353.7bf163a2@posting.google.com>
	<4dKdnQlIXMIXIevdRVn-gg@powergate.ca>
	<8089854e.0404100204.504186a0@posting.google.com>
	<kcWdnaFpw_PvdurdRVn-sA@powergate.ca>
	<8089854e.0404122329.5dfe5ce1@posting.google.com>
	<R9-dnUYH8r32f-bd4p2dnA@powergate.ca>
	<8089854e.0404132323.3283390@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <m3ad1esel6.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk>

michael at foord.net (Fuzzyman) writes:

> In summary - I'm better off learning C and how to write Python
> extensions !!

I'm a bit lost on where this thread is at, but I've written Python
extensions in PPC assembly (more to see if I could than for any real
reason...).

Cheers,
mwh

-- 
  In short, just business as usual in the wacky world of floating
  point <wink>.                        -- Tim Peters, comp.lang.python


From lbates at swamisoft.com  Thu Apr  1 11:56:07 2004
From: lbates at swamisoft.com (Larry Bates)
Date: Thu, 1 Apr 2004 10:56:07 -0600
Subject: splitting one dictionary into two
References: <20040401153103.GC4577@jsaul.de>
Message-ID: <tr6dnawG3fU01PHd4p2dnA@comcast.com>

There a quite a few different ways to do this, but
I might suggest something like:

    dict1={"a":1, "b":3, "c":5, "d":4, "e":2}
    dict2={}
    dict3={}
    [dict2.setdefault(k,v) for k,v in dict1.items() if v > 3]
    [dict3.setdefault(k,v) for k,v in dict1.items() if not v > 3]
    dict1=dict3.copy()

Very "Pythonic" but is 2 times slower than your original code.

Another suggestion is:

    dict1 = { "a":1, "b":3, "c":5, "d":4, "e":2 }
    dict2 = {}

    keys=dict1.keys()
    for key in keys:
        if dict1[key] > 3: # some criterion
            dict2[key] = dict1[key]
            del dict1[key]

This is a "little" faster (100000 iterations of your method
time=1.13 seconds, my method=0.94 seconds and I find easier
to read (eliminates the unneeded klist variable and second
loop).

Larry Bates
Syscon, Inc.

"jsaul" <use_reply-to at empty.invalid> wrote in message
news:20040401153103.GC4577 at jsaul.de...
> Hello all,
>
> I have to split a dict into two dicts. Depending on their values,
> the items shall remain in the original dict or be moved to another
> one and at the same time be removed from the original dict.
>
> OK, this is how I do it right now:
>
>     dict1 = { "a":1, "b":3, "c":5, "d":4, "e":2 }
>     dict2 = {}
>     klist = []
>
>     for key in dict1:
>         if dict1[key] > 3: # some criterion
>             dict2[key] = dict1[key]
>             klist.append(key)
>
>     for key in klist:
>         del dict1[key]
>
>     print dict1
>     print dict2
>
> That means that I store the keys of the items to be removed from
> the original dict in a list (klist) and subsequently remove the
> items using these keys.
>
> Is there an "even more pythonic" way?
>
> Cheers, jsaul




From langspam at yahoo.com  Fri Apr 16 01:58:21 2004
From: langspam at yahoo.com (AndrewL)
Date: 15 Apr 2004 22:58:21 -0700
Subject: CamelCase versus wide_names (Prothon)
References: <UHxfc.9323$dZ1.3740@fed1read04>
Message-ID: <75ad240a.0404152158.1530ab4b@posting.google.com>

I most prefer Lisp style, which uses dashes, as in

(with-open-file (do-foo-bar))

but that's not an option. Note that I don't yet find Lisp more readable
than Python. It's just that I like the dashes.

Next would be wide_names. I think it looks less elegant than camel case, but
it's more readable for me. It's what I use in my Python (and the Perl they
force me to write at work). And I don't know why I find Lisp's dash less
jarring than underscores. It just flows better for me.

A professor in a programming class told us of a study that found
wide names are easier for non-native speakers to read. I can see that.
Compare trying to make sense of these two:

genusIrritabileVatumDel versus genus_irritabile_vatum_del, especially
if you're getting pages of it.

The ease of typing is much less of an issue for me than readability.
I have a macro in jEdit that inserts an underscore, and it's mapped
to alt-spacebar. Plus I use auto-complete. So go for (what I personally
consider) readability.

Andrew Langman


From eppstein at ics.uci.edu  Sun Apr  4 18:09:23 2004
From: eppstein at ics.uci.edu (David Eppstein)
Date: Sun, 04 Apr 2004 14:09:23 -0800
Subject: Working with a list in a more "pythonic" way
References: <20040404124833458+0200@news.rhrz.uni-bonn.de>
	<mailman.338.1081108625.20120.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <eppstein-78D3D6.14092304042004@news.service.uci.edu>

In article <mailman.338.1081108625.20120.python-list at python.org>,
 "Terry Reedy" <tjreedy at udel.edu> wrote:

> Rewritten, your code is
> 
> score = 0
> for i in range(len(phrase)-1):
>     score += soundScoreMatrix[ord(x[i]) - 65][ord(x[i + 1]) - 65]
> 
> Once written thusly, the reduce form is obvious (but obviously not tested):
> 
> reduce(lambda score, i: score + soundScoreMatrix[ord(x[i]) - 65][ord(x[i +
> 1]) - 65],
>              range(len(phrase)-1), 0)
> 
> but aside from any didactic value this has, I prefer, in this case, the
> written-out loop.

I prefer the sum form -- if sum() isn't good for this example, what is 
it there for at all?  I also don't like seeing the magic number 65 
without some sort of explanation.  And how come you're using x in one 
place and phrase in another?

ords = [ord(c) - ord('A') for c in phrase.upper()]
score = sum([soundScoreMatrix[ords[i]][ords[i+1]]
             for i in range(len(phrase)-1)
             if 0 <= ords[i] < 26 and 0 <= ords[i+1] < 26])

-- 
David Eppstein                      http://www.ics.uci.edu/~eppstein/
Univ. of California, Irvine, School of Information & Computer Science


From nc-jantzegu at netcologne.de  Fri Apr  2 16:09:55 2004
From: nc-jantzegu at netcologne.de (Günter Jantzen)
Date: Fri, 2 Apr 2004 23:09:55 +0200
Subject: Travelling salesman variation in python
References: <slrnc6on9h.spl.erlendga@tva.ifi.uio.no><c4htj1$os1$1@newsreader2.netcologne.de>
	<mailman.248.1080852947.20120.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <c4kkr5$ldc$1@newsreader2.netcologne.de>


"Jeff Epler" <jepler at unpythonic.net> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:mailman.248.1080852947.20120.python-list at python.org...
> Can't TSP be converted to your problem?
>
> If you have TSP with distance(Xi, Xj)=Dij, then convert it to your
> problem by letting distance(X'i, X'j)=distance(X'j, X'i)=-Dij.
> or if only positive weights are allowed then use max(D)-Dij.
>
> Jeff
>
Of course, Jeff you are right!

There is a lot of pointers at the ACM portal

http://portal.acm.org/results.cfm?coll=Portal&dl=Portal&CFID=19701367&CFTOKE
N=66344476

G?nter




From josh.reeves at gmail.com  Thu Apr 15 19:13:06 2004
From: josh.reeves at gmail.com (josh R)
Date: 15 Apr 2004 16:13:06 -0700
Subject: Newbie question: matching
Message-ID: <fc49c257.0404151513.8ea0ad1@posting.google.com>

Hi all,

I am trying to write some python to parse html code.  I find it easier
to do in perl, but would like to learn some basic python.  My code
looks like this:

line = "<tr>eat at joe's</tr><tr>or else</tr><tr>you'll starve</tr>"
so = re.compile("(\<tr\>.*?\<\\tr\>)")
foo=so.match(line)
print foo.groups()

I'd like to get an array of elements that looks like this:

array(0)= <tr>eat at joe's</tr>
array(1)= <tr>or else</tr>
array(2)= <tr>you'll starve</tr>

Could you please tell me the correct way to do the matching?

also, is there something similiar to perl's s/foo/bar/g?

Thanks!!!
Josh


From ny_r_marquez at yahoo.com  Mon Apr 19 15:14:51 2004
From: ny_r_marquez at yahoo.com (R.Marquez)
Date: 19 Apr 2004 12:14:51 -0700
Subject: Does Python compete with Java?
References: <8b336527.0404051337.51bb4a1b@posting.google.com>
	<c4taac$2lg0bc$1@ID-169208.news.uni-berlin.de>
	<e838aa6e.0404071426.7192e8e4@posting.google.com>
	<slrnc79idf.hij.ramen@lackingtalent.com>
	<e838aa6e.0404130748.1d8e1ddf@posting.google.com>
	<407deb56$1@news.unimelb.edu.au>
	<KbydnZd2qY7uyuPdRVn-uw@powergate.ca>
	<8b336527.0404151019.14b93502@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <8a27e309.0404191114.4a6328da@posting.google.com>

> I would hope that someday Python would be a "tool" that "most"
> developers would want to have in their "tool box".

The day "most" developers use Python is the day it stops being a
competitive advantage. ;)

Seriously, if you are starting a company with a good product idea in
mind, Python would be an excelent choice to get you going.  (Wasn't a
certain search engine company started that way?)

-Ruben


From bdesth.quelquechose at free.quelquepart.fr  Thu Apr  1 04:12:51 2004
From: bdesth.quelquechose at free.quelquepart.fr (Bruno Desthuilliers)
Date: Thu, 01 Apr 2004 11:12:51 +0200
Subject: ANNOUNCE: 'goto' for Python
In-Reply-To: <mailman.210.1080803438.20120.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.210.1080803438.20120.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <406bd703$0$14074$626a14ce@news.free.fr>

Richie Hindle wrote:
> Entrian Solutions is pleased to announce version 1.0 of the 'goto' module.
> 
> This adds the 'goto' and 'comefrom' keywords to Python 2.3, adding
> flexibility to Python's control flow mechanisms and allowing Python
> programmers to use many common control flow idioms that were previously
> denied to them.
> 
Trop gros, passera pas... !-)



From roy at panix.com  Sat Apr 17 08:54:26 2004
From: roy at panix.com (Roy Smith)
Date: Sat, 17 Apr 2004 08:54:26 -0400
Subject: Difficulty Finding Python Developers
References: <65cbc3dd.0404140641.3501fde8@posting.google.com>
	<407D6269.3090909@engcorp.com> <40808FF1.7060204@cs.com>
	<4080AE97.C4CF0755@alcyone.com> <408110CE.7030402@cs.com>
Message-ID: <roy-7CD80E.08542617042004@reader2.panix.com>

"Robert M. Emmons" <RobMEmmons at cs.com> wrote:
> I think I would be more worried about the non-python language things -- 
> they are harder to learn and take more time, and are where depth is 
> important.  Python itself is easy to learn.  Learning to write CGI 
> scripts, using Zope, doing database work, making a web site, using 
> wxWindows, etc.  These are more than just Python.  Because of that -- 
> the person that's going to do the job is going to need to be an expert 
> in some of these areas...otherwise long learning curve.

That's an excellent point.  I think most programmers underestimate the 
importance (and difficulty) of all the non-coding activities that go 
into making a successful business.

Web development is a perfect example.  A good website is more about 
content and usability (and often, databases) than it is about coding the 
dynamic page generation engine.

Likewise, in any project involving more than about 2 people, software 
process engineering starts to become as critical as programming.  Things 
like poor configuration management, quality control, requirements 
gathering and documentation are more likely to sink a big project than 
bad coding.


From mwh at python.net  Thu Apr  8 07:55:27 2004
From: mwh at python.net (Michael Hudson)
Date: 08 Apr 2004 12:55:27 +0100
Subject: getting from code object to class/function
In-Reply-To: <16500.50009.267575.290860@montanaro.dyndns.org>
References: <mailman.425.1081355834.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<m365cbtzqu.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk>
	<16500.50009.267575.290860@montanaro.dyndns.org>
Message-ID: <m3n05msmz4.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk>

Skip Montanaro <skip at pobox.com> writes:

>     >> There is, however, no direct way back from the code object to (for
>     >> example) the class and method which "own" that object.  I didn't see
>     >> anything obvious in the inspect module that would allow me to worm
>     >> around this problem.
> 
>     mwh> gc.get_referrers?
> 
> Interesting idea.

I'm not sure it'll work though: I don't think code objects participate
in GC, so I don't know if function's traverse function call the
callback on the code object.

That said, I've just tried it, and it does work :-)

Cheers,
mwh

-- 
  We've had a lot of problems going from glibc 2.0 to glibc 2.1.
  People claim binary compatibility.  Except for functions they
  don't like.                       -- Peter Van Eynde, comp.lang.lisp



From fredrik at pythonware.com  Wed Apr 21 12:55:24 2004
From: fredrik at pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2004 18:55:24 +0200
Subject: python shutting down sloooooooowly/tuning dictionaries
References: <20040421153923.GA13234%till@score.is.tsukuba.ac.jp>
	<c668j8$9iu$1@sea.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <c66915$aou$1@sea.gmane.org>

> have you tried using
>
>     os._exit()
>
> instead of sys.exit()

better make that

    os._exit(0)

</F>






From no.email at please.com  Mon Apr 12 15:07:43 2004
From: no.email at please.com (Stevie_mac)
Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2004 20:07:43 +0100
Subject: String + number split
References: <2SAec.70005$Id.6002@news-binary.blueyonder.co.uk>
	<mfydnfKTtqtWRufdRVn-uQ@powergate.ca>
Message-ID: <c5epc8$1scu$1@news.wplus.net>

> It's impossible to say if it's more elegant, since you didn't
> post your attempt.
    Yeh, sorry bout tha!

>  (Homework?  I'll assume not.)
    Only a student of life!

Heres my solution...

import string
def makefont(sFontName):
    num = []
    nam = []
    acnt = 0
    #reverse it
    l = list(sFontName); l.reverse(); ''.join(l)
    sFontName = string.join(l,'')
     #now loop it while isdigit(), store number, then store alphas
    for c in sFontName:
        if c.isdigit() and acnt == 0:
            num.append(c)
        elif c.isalpha() or acnt > 1:
            acnt += 1
            nam.append(c)
    nam.reverse()
    num.reverse()
    return (string.join( nam, '' ), int(string.join( num, '' )))

Now you see why i was asking for a more elegant solution!

PS, the number on the end may vary  &  the _ could be any non alpha char!

 font12        becomes         ('font',12)
 arial_14      becomes        ('arial',14)
 arial__8      becomes        ('arial',8)
 times 6      becomes        ('times',6)



"Peter Hansen" <peter at engcorp.com> wrote in message news:mfydnfKTtqtWRufdRVn-uQ at powergate.ca...
> Stevie_mac wrote:
> > Hello again, I can do this, but I'm sure there is a much more elegant way...
> >
> > A string, with a number on the end, strip off the number & discard any underscores
> >
> > eg...
> >
> > font12        becomes         ('font',12)
> > arial_14      becomes        ('arial',14)
>
  (Homework?  I'll assume not.)
>
>  >>> import re
>  >>> def fsplit(fs):
> ...   return tuple(re.split('(\d+)', fs.replace('_', ''))[:2])
> ...
>  >>> fsplit('font12')
> ('font', '12')
>  >>> fsplit('arial_14')
> ('arial', '14')
>
> I wouldn't actually code it this way myself, but it meets
> your requirements as stated.
>
> -Peter





From gerrit at nl.linux.org  Thu Apr 15 05:47:15 2004
From: gerrit at nl.linux.org (Gerrit)
Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2004 11:47:15 +0200
Subject: Pygame
In-Reply-To: <107rlp0in3r1k76@news.supernews.com>
References: <c5jdv2$s4$1@orkan.itea.ntnu.no>
	<107qkrbhnjpmh9b@news.supernews.com>
	<c5jpkb$6th$1@orkan.itea.ntnu.no>
	<107rlp0in3r1k76@news.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <20040415094715.GA29865@nl.linux.org>

John Roth wrote:
> What I don't find is support for specialty application areas.
> Games are a specialty application area.

The name pygame is IMHO misleading. It's applicable beyond games.

> > Python is supposed to be "batteries included", but still hasn't got native
> > support for fullscreen graphics.
> 
> Pygame is layered on top of SDL, which in turn is layered on
> top of Open GL.

SDL is not layered on top of OpenGL. I think it's exactly the other way
around. I use Pygame a lot and I don't have OpenGL installed.

Gerrit.

-- 
Weather in Twenthe, Netherlands 15/04 11:25:
	16.0?C Clear sky clear wind 3.1 m/s SSE (57 m above NAP)
-- 
Experiences with Asperger's Syndrome:
	EN http://topjaklont.student.utwente.nl/english/
	NL http://topjaklont.student.utwente.nl/



From nuffsaid at phreaker.net  Fri Apr 30 21:54:40 2004
From: nuffsaid at phreaker.net (Nuff Said)
Date: Sat, 01 May 2004 03:54:40 +0200
Subject: IDE for Python
References: <mailman.164.1083359859.25742.python-list@python.org>
	<pan.2004.05.01.00.55.19.899197@phreaker.net>
	<vOCkc.5406$rK7.2986@newssvr23.news.prodigy.com>
Message-ID: <pan.2004.05.01.01.54.39.742455@phreaker.net>

On Sat, 01 May 2004 01:10:51 +0000, Venkatesh Prasad Ranganath wrote:

> Nuff Said wrote:
>> Why an IDE? Python is - IMO - (one of) THE languages, where
>> a good editor (tabs2spaces, comment blocks, select encoding, 
>> syntax highlighting, auto-indentation, scriptable ...) is all 
>> you really need. 
>> 
>> (Bluefish ain't the editor of your choice here; write your own 
>> from scrap or write one using Scintilla; resp. use SciTE with 
>> a good customization file; or go for (X)Emacs resp. Vim.)

> Try eric3 at http://www.die-offenbachs.de/detlev/eric3.html

Why? If you are into Qt, it might be a good choice (but if you
are not,  eric3 is a little bit *too* Qt-centric, IMHO). There
are a lot of solutions for special Python/GUI combinations, but
none of them seems to be the *editor of your choice* if you are
not yet restricted to one GUI solution.

Nuff.



From gmuller at worldonline.nl  Sun Apr 25 16:46:48 2004
From: gmuller at worldonline.nl (GerritM)
Date: Sun, 25 Apr 2004 22:46:48 +0200
Subject: Andreas' practical language comparison
References: <c6glig$phm$07$4@news.t-online.com>
	<TrGdnVUrJdjsahbdRVn-iQ@powergate.ca>
	<c6gu81$pk6$05$2@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <408c23b8$0$41746$5fc3050@dreader2.news.tiscali.nl>

"Andreas Koch" <nospam at kochandreas.com> schreef in bericht
news:c6gu81$pk6$05$2 at news.t-online.com...
<..snip...>
> > I sent bubble sort, based on the algorithm, but I'm not going
> > to bother with more if this is simply a fewest-lines competition,
> > since the first person to post some Perl will win (although K
> > appears to be ready to give tight competition in that area,
> > if the current list is any indication).
>
> It is on no way a fewest-lines competiton, especially considering
> that my favourite language (Delphi) had the most lines in nearly
> every test case :-)
>
> I removed the line counts from the overview matrix until we find
> a better solution.
>
I really would like to see the linecount. I do belive that it is one of the
indicators of the power of the language and its batteries. Somehow it would
be nice to have a figure for "readability", but I don't have a clue how to
generate such a figure in an automatic way. Maybe you need some panel of
experts that gives a readability figure?

kind regards, Gerrit
--
www.extra.research.philips.com/natlab/sysarch/





From eppstein at ics.uci.edu  Fri Apr 30 01:29:21 2004
From: eppstein at ics.uci.edu (David Eppstein)
Date: Thu, 29 Apr 2004 22:29:21 -0700
Subject: Feedback on Sets, and Partitions
References: <mailman.136.1083282936.25742.python-list@python.org>
	<eppstein-A8F4BF.22001829042004@news.service.uci.edu>
Message-ID: <eppstein-8D7B2C.22292129042004@news.service.uci.edu>

In article <eppstein-A8F4BF.22001829042004 at news.service.uci.edu>,
 David Eppstein <eppstein at ics.uci.edu> wrote:

> In article <mailman.136.1083282936.25742.python-list at python.org>,
>  "Steve" <humean at fea.st> wrote:
> 
> > For my current project, I need to generate partitions of sets up to size
> > 25. I am rather hopeless it will ever be feasible, and I have begun
> > looking for a different approach. Thanks for any replies!
> 
> There are 4638590332229999353 partitions of an 25 item set.
> <http://www.research.att.com/projects/OEIS?Anum=A000110>
> 
> So, I think generating them all is a little out of the question.

BTW, here is some code for generating these numbers.  I think it's a 
little interesting that one can write the obvious one-line definition 
for factorials, forgetting the base case, and then make it work anyway 
via the magic of memoization.  Something to think about in connection 
with PEP 318...


def memoize(recurrence, base_case={}):
    memo = {}
    for k,rk in base_case.items():
        if not isinstance(k,tuple):
            k = (k,)
        memo[k] = rk

    def memoized(*args):
        if args not in memo:
            memo[args] = recurrence(*args)
        return memo[args]

    return memoized

def factorial(n):
    return factorial(n-1)*n

factorial = memoize(factorial, base_case={0:1})

def choose(n,k):
    return factorial(n) // factorial(k) // factorial(n-k)

def bell(n):
    return sum([choose(n-1,k)*bell(n-1-k) for k in range(n)])

bell = memoize(bell, base_case={0:1})

print "There are",bell(25),"partitions of a 25 item set."

-- 
David Eppstein                      http://www.ics.uci.edu/~eppstein/
Univ. of California, Irvine, School of Information & Computer Science


From mwh at python.net  Mon Apr 12 06:08:30 2004
From: mwh at python.net (Michael Hudson)
Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2004 10:08:30 GMT
Subject: new-style class instance check
References: <mailman.516.1081639807.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<c5a23h$geb$1@apollon.grec.isp.9tel.net>
	<mailman.518.1081644036.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<c5b7f6$sdb$1@apollon.grec.isp.9tel.net>
Message-ID: <m3ptadfqzm.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk>

"Richard Gruet" <rjgruet at yahoo.com> writes:

> Right, you are perfectly right.
> As Robert (Brewer) guessed, I was actually naively trying to detect
> whether an object was an instance of a *user-defined* new-style
> class in an attempt to find and equivalent to type(o) is
> InstanceType for new-style classes - so my function could be more
> appropriately named e;G.  isUserDefinedNewStyleClassInstance(o).

You could check the tp_flags member for the TP_HEAPTYPE bit -- but
this is C talk and doesn't translate into Python that cleanly
(o.__class__.__flags__ & (1<<9) or similar) and isn't 100%
reliable. Of course, type(o) is InstanceType isn't reliable either --
it's true for e.g. Exception.

Why do you want to know?

Cheers,
mwh

-- 
  Windows XP: Big cow. Stands there, not especially malevolent
  but constantly crapping on your carpet. Eventually you have to
  open a window to let the crap out or you die.
                           -- Jim's pedigree of operating systems, asr


From python at simon.vc  Mon Apr 19 09:42:20 2004
From: python at simon.vc (SimonVC)
Date: 19 Apr 2004 06:42:20 -0700
Subject: imitating user input
References: <ebd4b44c.0404181137.6ec29ba8@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.749.1082327867.20120.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <fa156589.0404190542.212f4c22@posting.google.com>

Try This:

Rob Marchetti: Pamie [Pamie allows you to write Python scripts in
order to drive Internet Explorer. Pamie is a lite Python port of SAMIE
written in Perl by Henry Wasserman. This is a "free" open-source tool
written for QA engineers or developers as a means to simulate users
exploring a web site. ]

http://pamie.sourceforge.net/


From peter at engcorp.com  Fri Apr  9 22:42:27 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Fri, 09 Apr 2004 22:42:27 -0400
Subject: automatically generating file dependency information from python
 tools
In-Reply-To: <bhFdc.50011$bE2.25447@newssvr25.news.prodigy.com>
References: <bhFdc.50011$bE2.25447@newssvr25.news.prodigy.com>
Message-ID: <i7idnZtjAp2JwurdRVn-vA@powergate.ca>

Moosebumps wrote:

> Say you have a group of 20 programmers, and they're all writing python
> scripts that are simple data crunchers -- i.e. command line tools that read
> from one or more files and output one or more files.

Shall we read into this the implication that there is no
coding standard of any kind being used for these tools?  So
no hope of saying something as simple as "use constants for
all filenames, using the following conventions..."?

> I want to set up some sort of system that would automatically generate
> makefile type information from the source code of these tools.  Can anyone
> think of a good way of doing it?  You could make everyone call a special
> function that wraps the file() and detects whether they are opening the file
> for read or write.  

I think you've mixed up your two ideas in the above.  You don't really
mean "source code" here, do you?  You mean catching the information
dynamically from the running program, I think.  That is something
that is probably quite easy to do with Python.  For example, just
have everyone import a particular magic module that you create for
this purpose at the top of their scripts.  That module installs a
replacement open() (or file()) function in the builtins module, and
then any file that is opened for reading or writing can be noticed
and relevant notes about it recorded in your repository.

> The other thing I could think of is statically analyzing the source code -- 
> but what if the filenames are generated dynamically?  

As you've guessed, much harder to do.  Especially with a language
that is not statically typed... (dare I say? ;-)

-Peter


From simon at brunningonline.net  Wed Apr 28 05:08:18 2004
From: simon at brunningonline.net (Simon Brunning)
Date: 28 Apr 2004 02:08:18 -0700
Subject: MS COM early and late binding
References: <9e5ea2c4.0404271039.2da829b5@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.57.1083092797.25742.python-list@python.org>
	<408ed8e5$1_1@newspeer2.tds.net>
Message-ID: <314b29e9.0404280108.65fbf9b@posting.google.com>

"Olaf Meding" <OlafMeding at noSpam.compuserve.com> wrote in message news:<408ed8e5$1_1 at newspeer2.tds.net>...
> What you suggest might work, but does not look to elegant.  Can anyone else
> perhaps suggest a more elegant solution?  Thanks.

Not elegant? This is COM, you know!

Anyway, I do this:

excel = win32com.client.gencache.EnsureDispatch('Excel.Application')

Then I know I'm using early binding.

Cheers,
Simon B.


From davidb at mcs.st-and.ac.uk  Thu Apr 15 07:04:13 2004
From: davidb at mcs.st-and.ac.uk (David Boddie)
Date: 15 Apr 2004 04:04:13 -0700
Subject: Pygame
References: <c5jdv2$s4$1@orkan.itea.ntnu.no>
	<107qkrbhnjpmh9b@news.supernews.com>
	<c5jpkb$6th$1@orkan.itea.ntnu.no>
	<107rksn9nosm78a@news.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <4de76ee2.0404150304.3048ee44@posting.google.com>

"John Roth" <newsgroups at jhrothjr.com> wrote in message news:<107rksn9nosm78a at news.supernews.com>...

> If you look at PyGame, you'll find that it's based on SDL, which seems
> to be a very good library for doing graphics. That, in turn, is based on
> OpenGL.

Correct me if I'm wrong but, as far as I'm aware, SDL isn't based on OpenGL
at all. If you're only creating 2D content, you don't need a working OpenGL
implementation on your target platform.

> It also (optionally) uses Numeric, which hasn't been included with Python
> because the developers don't want to wait for major Python updates.

That's a more important issue, I'll admit.

Personally, I'm not in favour of sweeping all the most popular third
party libraries into the standard library, although I can understand the
motivation of the original poster for wanting to include Pygame.

David


From bkelley at wi.mit.edu  Tue Apr 27 10:29:21 2004
From: bkelley at wi.mit.edu (Brian Kelley)
Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2004 10:29:21 -0400
Subject: how to add new print %b format to python?
In-Reply-To: <108qjne9jqtit4c@news.supernews.com>
References: <slrnc8q9qp.htc.rs@frank.overlook.homelinux.net>
	<108qjne9jqtit4c@news.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <408e6e71$0$561$b45e6eb0@senator-bedfellow.mit.edu>

John Roth wrote:

> "Rusty Shackleford" <rs at overlook.homelinux.net> wrote in message
> news:slrnc8q9qp.htc.rs at frank.overlook.homelinux.net...
> 
>>I have a Summer in front of me without any school, and I'd like to add a
>>new format for python print strings that will show any number in a
>>binary representation.  For example:
>>
>>
>>>>>'%b' % 3
>>
>>11
>>
>>>>>'%b' % 5
>>
>>101

For some implementation PEP discussion ideas, I like this format, but 
there are additional complexities such as what is

'%b' % -1 ?

This might just be a binary string equivalent to the current machine 
bits.  But what about long integers?

'%b' % (-1L)

This is technically an infinite string of ones.

Perhaps a useful solution is when printing out negative numbers, the 
user must supply the padding.

so
 >> '%b' % (-1)

raise a ValueError or some such and

Traceback (most recent call last):
   File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
ValueError: Binary format %b for negative numbers must have bit length
             specified

and

 >> '%32b' % (-1L)
11111111111111111111111111111111

Now for the source, you want to look at stringobject.c and in particular 
the PyString_Format function.  You can find the cvs version here:

http://cvs.sourceforge.net/viewcvs.py/python/python/dist/src/Objects/stringobject.c?view=markup

Note that you can make a test case by subclass string and the __mod__ 
function.  This might actually be harder though since you will have to 
figure out which argument is supposed to belong to the %b formatter.

from types import StringType

class mystring(StringType):
     def __mod__(self, *k, **kw):
         return StringType.__mod__(self, *k, **kw)

Good Luck







From greg at cosc.canterbury.ac.nz  Fri Apr 16 00:19:23 2004
From: greg at cosc.canterbury.ac.nz (Greg Ewing)
Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2004 16:19:23 +1200
Subject: Wrapper round x86 Assembler
In-Reply-To: <107g0m9sg8h85b3@news.supernews.com>
References: <8089854e.0404082353.7bf163a2@posting.google.com>
	<107g0m9sg8h85b3@news.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <c5nmsd$3t671$1@ID-169208.news.uni-berlin.de>

John Roth wrote:
> Intel
> CPU's are going to a model where dynamically generated code won't
> work unless you provide the correct incantation. This is to eliminate a
> large class of viri.

As long as Microsoft continue to do things like providing
a nice cross-platform virus environment in their word
processors and mail handlers, I can't see this helping much...

-- 
Greg Ewing, Computer Science Dept,
University of Canterbury,	
Christchurch, New Zealand
http://www.cosc.canterbury.ac.nz/~greg



From michael at foord.net  Wed Apr 14 03:16:35 2004
From: michael at foord.net (Fuzzyman)
Date: 14 Apr 2004 00:16:35 -0700
Subject: Wrapper round x86 Assembler
References: <8089854e.0404082353.7bf163a2@posting.google.com>
	<2ae25c6b.0404100840.10668dca@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <8089854e.0404132316.365e099b@posting.google.com>

paddy3118 at netscape.net (Paddy McCarthy) wrote in message news:<2ae25c6b.0404100840.10668dca at posting.google.com>...
> michael at foord.net (Fuzzyman) wrote in message news:<8089854e.0404082353.7bf163a2 at posting.google.com>...
> > There might be a really good reason why this hasn't been done *or*
> > someone might have done it and I just can't find it..... *but*
> > 
> > what about a wrapper to an assembler (presumably for x86 assembly !)
> > !!
> > I just wrote some code doing binary operations which would have been
> > about a zillion times faster in a few lines of assembly code.
> > 
> > I also have fond memories of programming in BBC Basic which had an
> > inline assembler - so you could wrap your assembly program in Basic.
> > It meant some commercial games started with Basic !
> > 
> > Anyway - it would be easy to reserve some memory with a string like
> > object to pass to an 'assembly object' and allow some really nifty
> > (and fast) stuff ?? For simple algorithms it would be very neat.
> > Avoiding memory overflow etc would be up to the assembly code 'chunk'
> > of course.
> > 
> > Regards,
> > 
> > 
> > Fuzzy
> > 
> > http://www.voidspace.org.uk/atlantibots/pythonutils.html
> I.m sure that what I am about to suggest isn't as high tech as you
> were expecting ,
> but I thought that Python already has a way of accessing functions in
> a Unix
> shared library, or Windows DLL.
> If you cancompile Python on the platform than you no doubt have an
> assembler handy too.
> So, you could put your assemble language in a string; write the string
> to a file;
> assemble the file to create a shered library or DLL, then call the
> function from Python!
> 
> I don't think I'd do it that way though :-)
> 
> Cheers, Pad.



Ha - in someways this is more like what I envisioned. What would have
been nice would have been to have kept the string in memory and called
it directly....(a nice dynamic solution - for a nice dynamic language)
-  but if modern OS / processor combinations have real issues with
jumping directly into 'unoptimized' code - then it may remain a
pipe-dream... *sigh*

Regards,


Fuzzy


From agriff at tin.it  Sun Apr 25 13:36:43 2004
From: agriff at tin.it (Andrea Griffini)
Date: Sun, 25 Apr 2004 17:36:43 GMT
Subject: iterating over collection, deleting entries
References: <c6gop3$5p7$03$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <a7rn80t490vcsam80j39vs6dg9nr5bvb50@4ax.com>

On Sun, 25 Apr 2004 18:25:08 +0200, "Patrick von Harsdorf"
<patrick at harsdorf.de> wrote:

>Please tell me, what?s the best way to do this?

I'm pretty new to python, but normally this is done
by a simple read-write approach. You iterate over
the elements using a "read" pointer, and every time
you find one you want to keep you just write it
and increment the write pointer.
In code...

   wrp = 0

   for x in container:
     if is_good(x):
       container[wrp] = x
       wrp += 1

   del container[wrp:]

This is O(n) and doesn't require any additional memory

I suppose however that it's not so common finding
cases in which this is much better than...

   a = [x for x in a if is_good(x)]

The latter will allocate a list for the result
(instead of reusing the same), but can free the
original (and this may be *better* than just
resizing it - it may be better in C++, for example).

HTH
Andrea


From psXdaXsilva at esotericaX.ptX  Fri Apr  9 20:09:55 2004
From: psXdaXsilva at esotericaX.ptX (Paulo da Silva)
Date: Sat, 10 Apr 2004 01:09:55 +0100
Subject: Parsing cmd line args problem
Message-ID: <1081555827.877735@jubilee.esoterica.pt>

Hi.

I am writing my 1st. python program and I have the following problem:

I need to build a list of lists (or tuples) for every -i option.
Example:
	prog -i xxx -i yyy
	and get a list like [[xxx,1],[yyy,1]]

I have tried this (callback) without any success:

...
def ixOpt(option,opt,value,parser):
	if getattr(parser.values,option.dest)=="None":
		#setattr(parser.values,option.dest,[[value,1]])
		parser.values.ix=[[value,1]]
	else:
	 
#setattr(parser.values,option.dest,getattr(parser.values,option.dest)+[value,1])
		parser.values.ix.append([[value,1]])

def parseArgs():
...
	add_option("-i", "--include",
				action="callback",callback=ixOpt,
				type="string",dest="ix",
				help="Include file PATTERN",metavar="PATTERN")

Any help please?
Thanks


From chatralias at aol.com  Mon Apr 12 13:48:45 2004
From: chatralias at aol.com (Chatralias)
Date: 12 Apr 2004 17:48:45 GMT
Subject: Newbie Prob Installing Pythonwin23
Message-ID: <20040412134845.12763.00000096@mb-m24.aol.com>

Hello, all
Installed Python2.3.3.exe seams to be working okay.
Installed pywin32-200.win32-py2.3.exe and it can't find a file.
Here is the traceback

Python Traceback when executing Initinstance handler.
  File "C:\PYTHON23\Lib\site-packages\Pythonwin\pywin\framework\intpyapp.py",
line 163, in InitInstance
    import interact
  File "C:\PYTHON23\Lib\site-packages\Pythonwin\pywin\framework\interact.py",
line 26, in ?
    import winout
  File "C:\PYTHON23\Lib\site-packages\Pythonwin\pywin\framework\winout.py",
line 26, in ?
    from pywintypes import UnicodeType
  File "C:\PYTHON23\Lib\site-packages\win32\lib\pywintypes.py", line 55, in ?
    __import_pywin32_system_module__("pywintypes", globals())
  File "C:\PYTHON23\Lib\site-packages\win32\lib\pywintypes.py", line 48, in
__import_pywin32_system_module__
    raise ImportError, "Can not locate " + filename
exceptions.ImportError: Can not locate pywintypes23.dll


I thonght maybe it was a conflict with a previously installed version of python
so I've cleaned all the python of my computer and redownloaded and reintalled
Python2.3.3.exe and pywin32-200.win32-py2.3.exe.
I can't seem to get pywin23-200 to start.

Any Ideas?

running on Pentium1 win98

Thanks Ray St. Marie
Rastm2 at aol.com


From pascal.parent at free.fr  Wed Apr 28 04:35:11 2004
From: pascal.parent at free.fr (Pascal)
Date: 28 Apr 2004 01:35:11 -0700
Subject: String formatting (%)
Message-ID: <e567c03a.0404280035.79d0d973@posting.google.com>

Hello,
I've a float number 123456789.01 and, I'de like to format it like this
"123 456 789.01".
Is this possible with % character?


From cedmunds at spamless.rochester.rr.com  Wed Apr 28 23:10:40 2004
From: cedmunds at spamless.rochester.rr.com (Cy Edmunds)
Date: Thu, 29 Apr 2004 03:10:40 GMT
Subject: GUI thread and Python IDLE
References: <f3acdcef.0404281348.157acfe7@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <Qm_jc.123188$M3.119432@twister.nyroc.rr.com>

"huwind" <hulan at bu.edu> wrote in message
news:f3acdcef.0404281348.157acfe7 at posting.google.com...
> Hi,
>
> I got a problem with Python IDLE to run Tkinter application. I use
> thread to start a Tkinter application. It works fine on Linux when I
> invoke the program from command line. But when I try to use IDLE, the
> GUI doesn't show up until I close the IDLE edit window and the Python
> shell window. Does anybody have any idea?
>
> - huwind

Have a look at:

http://www.ferg.org/thinking_in_tkinter/index.html

Evidently IDLE is itself a TKinter program.

-- 
Cy
http://home.rochester.rr.com/cyhome/




From hat at se-126.se.wtb.tue.nl  Mon Apr 19 03:37:44 2004
From: hat at se-126.se.wtb.tue.nl (Albert Hofkamp)
Date: Mon, 19 Apr 2004 07:37:44 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Python - matlab interface help!! Urgent
References: <ca305c70.0403311357.3d436b2b@posting.google.com>
	<ca305c70.0404160642.37583028@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <slrnc8707r.bbk.hat@se-126.se.wtb.tue.nl>

On 16 Apr 2004 07:42:04 -0700, Leeny <leens_chacko at hotmail.com> wrote:
> leens_chacko at hotmail.com (Leeny) wrote in message news:<ca305c70.0403311357.3d436b2b at posting.google.com>...
>> Hi Group,
>> 
>> Hope someone can help me with this problem. I am a new user to python
>> and am currently working with pymat module of python (for coursework).
>> 
> 
>> I tried to create plots thru pymat using pymat.eval(h, 'plot(x,y)')
>> This is working fine. However, i dont know how to print or save this
>> plot as a .tif image something like
>> 
>> print(gcf, '-dtiff', 'test')
>> 
>> using pymat.
> One suggestion I got was to use mathplotlib, but since i have done
> some work uisng pymat, I would like to know if there is some way it
> can be done using Pymat.

The last parameter of eval is the literal matlab command as a string (ie
quotes before and after it).

In other words if you type XYZ to do it in matlab, then the pymat
equivalent is pymat.eval(h,'XYZ')

If you have ' inside XYZ, use " instead, like pymat.eval(h,"XYZ") .



So, if the print command is how to print something, do

pymat.eval(h,"print(gcf, '-dtiff', 'test')")


Albert
-- 
Unlike popular belief, the .doc format is not an open publically available format.


From tjreedy at udel.edu  Wed Apr 14 19:10:31 2004
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2004 19:10:31 -0400
Subject: Pygame
References: <c5jdv2$s4$1@orkan.itea.ntnu.no><xZydnfgqeaiK3ODdRVn-tw@powergate.ca>
	<c5jgvh$2m5$1@orkan.itea.ntnu.no>
Message-ID: <c5kgd3$688$1@sea.gmane.org>


"Alexander R?dseth" <alexanro at stud.ntnu.no> wrote in message
news:c5jgvh$2m5$1 at orkan.itea.ntnu.no...
> > What do you think should be the criteria for deciding whether
> > something "is part of Python" or isn't?
>
> I agree that my question was a bit vague, so here's a clarification:
> In that connection I meant "included in the standard installation
procedure
> for the average inexperienced user".


Things do not just get 'included in the standard installation procedure'
without someone doing the work to get it in and keep it working.  Python is
an all-volunteer operation.

For anything new to get added to the distribution, someone (usually the
project leader) must volunteer to write a PEP (if deemed necessary) or
otherwise lead and participate in a discussion of features, interface, and
implementation.  This may result in changes required for acceptance.  Then
the documentation and code must meet current standards.  Then there must be
a commitment to respond to bug reports for at least a few years.  And yes,
the package should be 'generally' useful and the best available.


Many package authors prefer to keep control of their own work.

Terry J. Reedy






From teiffel at attglobal.net  Thu Apr 29 00:22:35 2004
From: teiffel at attglobal.net (Marcello Pietrobon)
Date: Thu, 29 Apr 2004 00:22:35 -0400
Subject: uuid generator
In-Reply-To: <408DE4F3.7080804@magma-da.com>
References: <71djc.147368$Kc3.4878757@twister2.libero.it>
	<408DE4F3.7080804@magma-da.com>
Message-ID: <4090830B.8010903@attglobal.net>

( sending it again )

Hello,
I need to read newly generated uuid from Python
but I am not sure if
http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Cookbook/Python/Recipe/163604

is the right code

Maybe there is already the library in Python 2.3

Maybe I can use the one generated with
uuidgen
under cygwin
but this would not be portable

In this last case I would like to know how can I capture the output of 
uuidgen
so I can use it in my script

Thank you if you know the answer !

Cheers,
Marcello





From frenchsk8 at hotmail.com  Wed Apr 14 13:40:22 2004
From: frenchsk8 at hotmail.com (Thibault)
Date: 14 Apr 2004 10:40:22 -0700
Subject: lauching Spambayes on Mac OS 9
Message-ID: <104977dd.0404140940.1a4505d9@posting.google.com>

Hi, i tried to use SpamBayes, a well known antispam on this
group...but i cant't even launch it.

I've installed the latest version of python for mac os 9.
But now the spambayes indicates that i have to run python setup.py and
then run python scripts/sb_server.py...and that's the problem! i can't
figure out how to run these commands!

I need your help!! please

Thibault


From ramen at lackingtalent.com  Wed Apr  7 23:29:41 2004
From: ramen at lackingtalent.com (Dave Benjamin)
Date: Thu, 08 Apr 2004 03:29:41 -0000
Subject: Does Python compete with Java?
References: <8b336527.0404051337.51bb4a1b@posting.google.com>
	<c4taac$2lg0bc$1@ID-169208.news.uni-berlin.de>
	<e838aa6e.0404071426.7192e8e4@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <slrnc79idf.hij.ramen@lackingtalent.com>

In article <e838aa6e.0404071426.7192e8e4 at posting.google.com>, A. Lloyd Flanagan wrote:
> Greg Ewing <greg at cosc.canterbury.ac.nz> wrote in message news:<c4taac$2lg0bc$1 at ID-169208.news.uni-berlin.de>...
>> 
>> I think it's a *good* thing. Python is succeeding very well
>> by just existing and actually being well designed and useful,
>> as opposed to having a large company's marketing machine trying
>> to tell everyone that it is.
> 
> Very true.  In addition, I think python will gain a lot of
> "mind-share" as more and more popular applications are written in
> python.

Over the long term, I think Python's biggest key to success will be that we
will still be able to read the programs that we are writing now.

-- 
.:[ dave benjamin: ramen/[sp00] -:- spoomusic.com -:- ramenfest.com ]:.
:  please talk to your son or daughter about parametric polymorphism. :


From tundra at tundraware.com  Fri Apr  9 01:40:11 2004
From: tundra at tundraware.com (Tim Daneliuk)
Date: 09 Apr 2004 01:40:11 EDT
Subject: why is python better than eg. smalltalk?? no one has any solid
 arguments! you should all go to church with all that religious talk!
In-Reply-To: <1081487366.538219@yasure>
References: <20031028061245.12451.00000133@mb-m01.aol.com>
	<mailman.237.1067515722.702.python-list@python.org>
	<opr53783cbmyya52@news.kadnet.dom>
	<n26gk1-09e1.ln1@eskimo.tundraware.com> <1081487366.538219@yasure>
Message-ID: <n2phk1-3nt1.ln1@eskimo.tundraware.com>

Donn Cave wrote:

> Quoth Tim Daneliuk <tundra at tundraware.com>:
> ...
> | My view on Python's real virtue from several years ago:
> |
> | http://www.tundraware.com/Technology/Python-Is-Middleware/
> 
> What do you think now, several years later, about `A Little Warning'
> at the end of that page?
> 
> 	Donn Cave, donn at drizzle.com

I think that the community has mostly managed to keep this under control.
The additions to the language in the past several years, IMHO, have been
restrained, appropriate, and reasonable.

-- 
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Tim Daneliuk     tundra at tundraware.com
PGP Key:         http://www.tundraware.com/PGP/


From PeterAbel at gmx.net  Tue Apr 13 12:02:54 2004
From: PeterAbel at gmx.net (Peter Abel)
Date: 13 Apr 2004 09:02:54 -0700
Subject: how to break tuple to separate variables
References: <mailman.572.1081846104.20120.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <21064255.0404130802.60930588@posting.google.com>

Stano Paska <Stanislav.Paska at kios.sk> wrote in message news:<mailman.572.1081846104.20120.python-list at python.org>...
> Hi.
> 
> I need pass variables to function like tuple, but function accepts 
> separate variables.
> 
> Is there some elegant solution?
> 
> My example:
> 
> # -------------------------------
> import datetime
> 
> def date2tuple(aaa):
>      try:
>          y = int(aaa[:4])
>          m = int(aaa[5:7])
>          d = int(aaa[8:10])
>      except:
>          y = m = d = 0
>      return (y, m, d)
> 
> # i need some like this
> bbb = datetime.date(date2tuple('2004-11-03'))
> 
> # but date requires
> bbb = datetime.date(2004, 11, 03)
> 
> # -------------------------------
> 
> Thanks.
> 
> Stano Paska


try:
>>> tuple('2004-11-03'.split('-'))
('2004', '11', '03')
>>> 

Regards
Peter


From jcm at FreeBSD-uk.eu.org  Mon Apr 26 12:02:26 2004
From: jcm at FreeBSD-uk.eu.org (Jonathon McKitrick)
Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2004 17:02:26 +0100
Subject: Best way to add attributes to shelved objects?
In-Reply-To: <16525.12113.839367.623697@montanaro.dyndns.org>
References: <20040423193951.GC27351@dogma.freebsd-uk.eu.org>
	<16521.29527.356495.151656@montanaro.dyndns.org>
	<20040426150535.GA63648@dogma.freebsd-uk.eu.org>
	<16525.12113.839367.623697@montanaro.dyndns.org>
Message-ID: <20040426160226.GA65172@dogma.freebsd-uk.eu.org>

On Mon, Apr 26, 2004 at 10:48:33AM -0500, Skip Montanaro wrote:
:     skip> Why not check for those attributes in your __getstate__ method and
:     skip> add default (or computed) values for any missing attributes?
: 
:     jm> I tried experimenting with these, and could not get them to work.
:     ...
:     jm> Are there any examples on how to do this?
: 
: How about:
: 
:     class Foo:
:         def __init__(self):
:             self.a = 1
: 
:         def __setstate__(self, d):
:             if 'b' not in d:
:                 d['b'] = 2
:             self.__dict__ = d

Perfect!  Just what I was looking for.  I was just doing the wrong thing in
setstate.  Thanks!


jm
-- 
My other computer is your Windows box.



From greg at cosc.canterbury.ac.nz  Mon Apr 26 00:35:00 2004
From: greg at cosc.canterbury.ac.nz (Greg Ewing)
Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2004 16:35:00 +1200
Subject: CamelCase versus wide_names (Prothon)
In-Reply-To: <pan.2004.04.24.03.42.47.981@hotmail.com>
References: <UHxfc.9323$dZ1.3740@fed1read04>
	<6e0680ac.0404211252.7f7b4358@posting.google.com>
	<4086DFA7.9736E7D3@alcyone.com>
	<roy-15454C.18080121042004@reader2.panix.com>
	<PdEhc.19536$dZ1.11964@fed1read04>
	<slrnc8hluh.s60.apardon@trout.vub.ac.be>
	<nkcic.28282$dZ1.27269@fed1read04>
	<pan.2004.04.24.03.42.47.981@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <c6i3hk$c9108$1@ID-169208.news.uni-berlin.de>

Paramjit Oberoi wrote:
> If the language 'knew' that identifiers potentially consisted of
> multiple words, maybe it could detect a few different kinds of
> styles and automatically do the right thing?

That could be achieved by making it case-insensitive and
underscore-ignoring.

-- 
Greg Ewing, Computer Science Dept,
University of Canterbury,	
Christchurch, New Zealand
http://www.cosc.canterbury.ac.nz/~greg



From alloydflanagan at comcast.net  Thu Apr 15 13:36:47 2004
From: alloydflanagan at comcast.net (A. Lloyd Flanagan)
Date: 15 Apr 2004 10:36:47 -0700
Subject: Best IDE?
References: <c5bg1k$25vq$1@news.wplus.net>
Message-ID: <e838aa6e.0404150936.7cc61083@posting.google.com>

"Stevie_mac" <no.email at please.com> wrote in message news:<c5bg1k$25vq$1 at news.wplus.net>...
> This has prolly been asked 100 times - so please refrain from flaming if you can...
> 
> What's the best MSwindows editor for python?  I'm currently using PythonWin 

I use Emacs.  I keep trying new editors because emacs is hard to learn
and I'd like to use Python as a scripting language.  Then I find that
one feature or another I depend on in emacs can't be done, or not
easily, and I'm back to emacs.
Emacs is an extremely powerful editor which is able to integrate well
with the python interpreter and debugger.  There used to be a separate
version for Windows, but you can now get it from the same site as the
other versions:
http://www.gnu.org/directory/devel/editors/emacs.html


From claird at lairds.com  Sun Apr  4 20:22:37 2004
From: claird at lairds.com (Cameron Laird)
Date: Mon, 05 Apr 2004 00:22:37 -0000
Subject: Advocacy opportunity
Message-ID: <10719mdp83juif4@corp.supernews.com>

I've been advised that
<URL: http://www.smallscript.com/Language%20Comparison%20Chart.asp >
is open to correction in its Python column.  Who wants to tackle
this?  Python certainly supports interaction, we have plenty to boast
about in regard to foreign functions, we offer GUIs in abundance, ...

They seem rather liberal.  If Python supports private methods and 
variables (and JavaScript does native threads!?!) (but somebody seems
to have it in for C++), we might as well argue it gives root classes,
too.

I think if I had friends who were salesmen, they'd advise me, "You
just mark, 'Yes', everywhere, and deal with it if someone argues."
-- 

Cameron Laird <claird at phaseit.net>
Business:  http://www.Phaseit.net


From timr at probo.com  Sun Apr 11 00:19:36 2004
From: timr at probo.com (Tim Roberts)
Date: Sat, 10 Apr 2004 21:19:36 -0700
Subject: maximum length of a list & tuple
References: <c54lq3$2pe1sf$1@ID-202776.news.uni-berlin.de>
	<bvednZaKK7OybejdRVn-iQ@centurytel.net>
	<c55okv$2o3eql$1@ID-202776.news.uni-berlin.de>
	<c59igu$hto$1@news.service.uci.edu>
Message-ID: <hlhh70drqg7fhvn9e3keosdvdp01ulok7r@4ax.com>

Josiah Carlson <jcarlson at uci.edu> wrote:

>> I just would like to know if there is any limit to a list or tuple.
>
>It depends on how much memory you have.
>
>Run the following and the last thing it prints out is your limit...
>
>     c = 1
>     while c < 2**32:
>         try:
>             d = [1]*c
>             print c
>             c *= 2
>         except:
>             break

Interesting experiment.  I get 64M on my 384MB machine, which suggests 4
bytes per list entry.  Of course, now my swap file is packed full, and all
my apps are running slowly while they page themselves back in...
-- 
- Tim Roberts, timr at probo.com
  Providenza & Boekelheide, Inc.


From spamtrap at nowhere.net  Mon Apr 26 18:38:53 2004
From: spamtrap at nowhere.net (Steven)
Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2004 23:38:53 +0100
Subject: Compiler
Message-ID: <q6gjc.1945$VA1.1741@doctor.cableinet.net>

Hi folks,

Just curious, is there a python compiler?
Or something that creates bytecode, like java?

Regards,

Steven


From buzzard at urubu.freeserve.co.uk  Fri Apr  2 08:16:57 2004
From: buzzard at urubu.freeserve.co.uk (Duncan Smith)
Date: Fri, 2 Apr 2004 14:16:57 +0100
Subject: Travelling salesman variation in python
References: <slrnc6on9h.spl.erlendga@tva.ifi.uio.no>
	<slrnc6qdum.8l0.ncw@irishsea.home.craig-wood.com>
	<c4jikc$eq4$1@swifty.westend.com>
Message-ID: <c4jp26$jko$1@newsg4.svr.pol.co.uk>


"Peter Maas" <peter.maas at mplusr.de> wrote in message
news:c4jikc$eq4$1 at swifty.westend.com...
> Nick Craig-Wood wrote:
> > I used Simulated Annealing - have a search for the term and you'll see
> > plenty of references.  Its good at finding a (local) minimum.
>
> I used to think that Simulated Annealing avoids local traps and
> is good at finding a global minimum, at least with a certain
> probability that depends on some temperature function. Am I wrong?
>
> Mit freundlichen Gruessen,
>
> Peter Maas

No, you're not.  I think simulated annealing is a decent candidate for this
problem.  The difficulty (in my experience) is in finding decent parameters
for the cooling schedule, so you can find good solutions in reasonable time.

Duncan




From mcfletch at rogers.com  Tue Apr 20 12:20:36 2004
From: mcfletch at rogers.com (Mike C. Fletcher)
Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 12:20:36 -0400
Subject: Difficulty Finding Python Developers
In-Reply-To: <c63blu$96i$1@sea.gmane.org>
References: <65cbc3dd.0404140641.3501fde8@posting.google.com>	<roy-A69D29.18562119042004@reader2.panix.com>
	<c63blu$96i$1@sea.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <40854DD4.60301@rogers.com>

Paul Morrow wrote:

> Yes, that's our ad.  I guess hr wasn't as careful as they should've 
> been when they authored it (there's also a mispelled word)... :-(
>
> You probably already realized this, but that should've been $45 to $55 
> per hour.

*I* didn't realise that, I assumed $45,000/year to $55,000/year annual 
rate, which would be a reasonable rate in Canada (in Canadian dollars 
even) for a programmer with 1 or 2 years of experience.  I'd forgotten 
just how well Americans get paid for having fun... but at least our 
taxes are higher :) .

Enjoy,
Mike

_______________________________________
  Mike C. Fletcher
  Designer, VR Plumber, Coder
  http://members.rogers.com/mcfletch/





From mark at prothon.org  Fri Apr 30 01:32:35 2004
From: mark at prothon.org (Mark Hahn)
Date: Thu, 29 Apr 2004 22:32:35 -0700
Subject: What is good about Prothon?
References: <bniq80hiib0gauiltuntk9jvia2getbnj4@4ax.com>
	<nxdjc.400$Qy.363@fed1read04>
	<m0ps8092jss5mhpopkbj0a4hg0m0rlppqh@4ax.com>
	<vDvjc.5555$Qy.2995@fed1read04>
	<108t2tlo06j8vb9@corp.supernews.com>
	<hzwjc.6087$Qy.2366@fed1read04>
	<69cbbef2.0404281446.4e0ab52e@posting.google.com>
	<ZHXjc.17225$Qy.13377@fed1read04>
	<69cbbef2.0404291609.72d391db@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <Awlkc.36778$Qy.19874@fed1read04>

has wrote:

> In AS, a, b, and c are all equivalent and independent; any changes
> made to one do not affect the others. It's a no-brainer to use, and
> quite safe. In Prothon, b and c derive state and behaviour from a
> unless/until it's modified locally (ie on b or c). Changes made to one
> may or may not show up in another depending on the derived
> relationship and subsequent changes*,

I told you before that we had a Self-like copy and asked you then if using
that would make you happy.  You never answered that question.  Now you've
posted an example that ignores the Prothon copy (yes, it is spelled exactly
like the AS copy :)

Will you only be happy with Prothon if I rip out everything that is not like
AS or Self?  Isn't having Prothon capable of doing everything AS and Self
can do, in the same way they do it, good enough for you?  I know for a fact
that it can do everything they can do because there are months left in the
design and if you just got rid of that chip on your shoulder and pitched in
and helped, it could work well for people who want to use it like you do.

You should be aware that we are discussing right now the possibility of
putting the whole "class-mimicing" structure on an object that is a
descendent of a pure Self-like root object.  Lenard is doing a pretty good
job of explaing to me why we sometimes need objects without the "class-like"
methods __new__ and __init__.  Here is his response to my question about
that ("Object" is the "pure" object and "buildable" would have __new__ and
__init__):

------ Beginning of Lenard Lindstrom's post ------

> This is all very logical and I have no problem with it, but can you give
me
> a usage example of an object that would inherit directly from Object
instead
> of Buildable?

I do not know about a specific usage example, but knowledge bases in
artificial
intelligence comes to mind as a general case:

object ClydeLike(Object):
    $colour = "grey"
    $legcount = 4
    $mass = 2500

object Clyde(ClydeLike):  # Lieberman got it wrong. I can explain in a
separate posting.
    pass

object Fred(ClydeLike):
    $mass = 2400

Probably anything whose attributes are initialized to contants, that is, no
calculations
are required. Then specific initial attribute values for an extension object
are  set
with the object statement.

If descriptors are implemented in Prothon then value checks and special
computations
can be done on a per attribute bases, removing one more need for an _init_
function.
The Buildable prototype would come into play for immutables and objects that
convert
several input values into a different internal representation at creation
time.

---------- End of Lenard Lindstrom's post ------------

Lenard even said "Lieberman got it wrong."  See!  If you come over and help
out there are other like-minded people to work with you

By the way, the above code samples are from current builds of Prothon.  The
object keyword was added recently.






From max at alcyone.com  Sat Apr  3 23:58:52 2004
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Sat, 03 Apr 2004 20:58:52 -0800
Subject: minor bug in cmath.asin?
References: <m3y8pcr8u9.fsf@localhost.localdomain>
	<406F3EDA.970F953A@alcyone.com>
	<m34qs0ikm0.fsf@localhost.localdomain>
Message-ID: <406F960C.8FD57D46@alcyone.com>

Edwin Young wrote:

> It's not clear if the leading - sign affects the entire expression or
> indicates that i is negative. Python's implementation uses the former
> - I argue that the latter is more correct.

What's the difference?  Multiplication on complex numbers is
commutative.

> I've also noticed that cmath.acos has the same issue, and that the
> formula used for cmath.asinh is not quite accurate around 0 :
> cmath.asinh(0) gives 4.44089e-16+0j, rather than 0 as expected.

Remember that these transcendental functions are usually computed by
approxmation.  So it's not all that surprising that sin(0) isn't exactly
0.

-- 
 __ Erik Max Francis && max at alcyone.com && http://www.alcyone.com/max/
/  \ San Jose, CA, USA && 37 20 N 121 53 W && AIM erikmaxfrancis
\__/ Sit loosely in the saddle of life.
    -- Robert Louis Stevenson


From cleso at hotmail.com  Tue Apr 13 20:50:36 2004
From: cleso at hotmail.com (Dave)
Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2004 17:50:36 -0700
Subject: Looking for Python Definition
Message-ID: <ZvSdnbu-i7FDF-Hd4p2dnA@comcast.com>

Greetings!
Python22 is installed on my WINXP Home PC.
I have no idea what is does, or why it is installed.
I am not a programmer and do not know what purpose this program provides to
me.

Any and all information and suggestions are welcome.

Thanks!

-- Dave




From helge at hefre.com  Thu Apr 29 15:09:51 2004
From: helge at hefre.com (Helge)
Date: 29 Apr 2004 12:09:51 -0700
Subject: Create object for item in list
Message-ID: <39885b3c.0404291109.1ec58db2@posting.google.com>

I wonder how this can be accomplished:

I've got a list, containing several strings. The strings look like
this:

[ "Name1/N1/N2/N3" , "Name2/N1/N2/N3" , "..." ]

I would like to create one object for each item in the list, and the
name of the object should be "str(item.split("/")[0])".

I've tried this, but it won't work:

for item in list:
    str(item.split("/")[0]) = class(item)

...


From gianluca.trombetta at tin.it  Tue Apr 13 11:23:10 2004
From: gianluca.trombetta at tin.it (Gianluca Trombetta)
Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2004 17:23:10 +0200
Subject: Processes list under Windows and Linux: How?
References: <N7Tec.66715$rM4.2704780@news4.tin.it>
Message-ID: <c5h0l5$sd5$1@sea.gmane.org>

Take a look at os module. There are some methods like geteuid() and other.

Regards
Gianluca

"Carmine Moleti" <guess at askme.com> ha scritto nel messaggio
news:N7Tec.66715$rM4.2704780 at news4.tin.it...
> Hi to everyone,
>
> I was thinking of a way to get the list of processes running on a machine
> both with Windows and Linux.
>
> Is there anything I could search for in the standard library?
>
> Thanks in advance for your help
> Regards,
> Carmine
>
>
> -- 
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>






From loic at fejoz.net  Thu Apr  8 07:49:15 2004
From: loic at fejoz.net (Yermat)
Date: Thu, 08 Apr 2004 13:49:15 +0200
Subject: getattr() in default namespace.
In-Reply-To: <fa156589.0404080247.6557408e@posting.google.com>
References: <fa156589.0404080247.6557408e@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <c53e92$nqd$1@arcturus.ciril.fr>

SimonVC wrote:
> Hi group, long time reader first time poster (ive always wanted to say
> that).
> 
> How do you use getattr() to get a refernce to a function defined in
> the default namespace..
> 
> eg:
> 
> 
>>>>dir()
> 
> ['__doc__', '__name__', 'b1', 'b2', 'b3', 'rd']
> 
> 
>>>>b1
> 
> <function b1 at 1876939>
> 
>>>>getattr(self, "b1")
> 
> 
> Traceback (innermost last):
>   File "<console>", line 1, in ?
> NameError: self
> 
> 
>>>>getattr("b1")
> 
> Traceback (innermost last):
>   File "<console>", line 1, in ?
> TypeError: getattr(): expected 2-3 args; got 1


 >>> def b1(a):
...     return a
...
 >>> dir()
['__builtins__', '__doc__', '__name__', 'b1']
 >>> globals().keys()
['__builtins__', '__name__', '__doc__', 'b1']
 >>>
 >>> globals()['b1']
<function b1 at 0x402e241c>


 >>> globals()
{'__builtins__': <module '__builtin__' (built-in)>, '__name__': 
'__main__', '__doc__': None, 'b1': <function b1 at 0x402e241c>}


I can't see what you can do with getattr here...
but :
 >>> len
<built-in function len>
 >>> getattr(__builtins__,"len")
<built-in function len>
 >>> getattr(__builtins__,"len") is len
True

Yermat



From Scott.Daniels at Acm.Org  Sun Apr  4 09:02:59 2004
From: Scott.Daniels at Acm.Org (Scott David Daniels)
Date: Sun, 04 Apr 2004 06:02:59 -0700
Subject: Working with a list in a more =?utf-8?b?4oCecHl0aG9uaWPigJwg?=
 =?utf-8?q?way?=
In-Reply-To: <20040404124833458+0200@news.rhrz.uni-bonn.de>
References: <20040404124833458+0200@news.rhrz.uni-bonn.de>
Message-ID: <40700e82$1@nntp0.pdx.net>

Nickolay Kolev wrote:
> ...The sum of transition scores between the characters in a string.
 > The transition scores are stored in a 26 x 26 matrix. I.e. the
 > transition A -> F would have the score soundScoreMatrix[0][5].

This is the part I'd change:

     # Setup: transitionScore['AF'] = soundScoreMatrix[0][5].
     transitionScore = {}
     for i in range(26):
         first = chr(65+i)
         row = soundScoreMatrix[i]
         for j in range(26):
             transitionScore[first + chr(65+j)] = row[j]

> n = 0           # the final score of the string
> for i in range(len(phrase)):
> 	try:
> 		n += soundScoreMatrix[ord(x[i]) - 65][ord(x[i + 1]) - 65]
> 	except IndexError:
> 		pass

     def scoreit(phrase):
         score = 0
         for i in range(len(phrase) - 1):
             score += transitionScore.get(phrase[i : i+2], 0)
         return score

But if you insist on a more functional style:

     def scoreterse(phrase):
         return sum([transitionScore.get(phrase[i : i+2], 0)
                     for i in range(len(phrase) - 1)])

which doesn't really look clearer to me.  I'd be tempted to insert
a line:
         phrase = phrase.upper()

at the top of the function (scoreit or scoreterse) you use, depending,
of course, on the reliability of the source of your data.

-- 
-Scott David Daniels
Scott.Daniels at Acm.Org


From wweston at att.net  Sat Apr 17 09:40:16 2004
From: wweston at att.net (wes weston)
Date: Sat, 17 Apr 2004 13:40:16 GMT
Subject: MySQLdb error for sql >64K
In-Reply-To: <11vs3qm7platj$.e7an576g31z5.dlg@40tude.net>
References: <11vs3qm7platj$.e7an576g31z5.dlg@40tude.net>
Message-ID: <4tagc.40626$i74.996398@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>

JZ wrote:
> I cannot execute insert data into TEXT field if that data is bigger than
> 64KB. :(
> 
> 
>>>>cursor.execute("INSERT INTO table (field) VALUES(%s) WHERE id=1", myValue)
> 
> 
> Traceback (most recent call last):
> File "<interactive input>", line 1, in ?
> File "C:\opt\PYTHON~1\lib\site-packages\MySQLdb\cursors.py", line 95, in
> execute
>     return self._execute(query, args)
> File "C:\opt\PYTHON~1\lib\site-packages\MySQLdb\cursors.py", line 114, in
> _execute
>    self.errorhandler(self, exc, value)
> File "C:\opt\PYTHON~1\lib\site-packages\MySQLdb\connections.py", line 33,
> in defaulterrorhandler
>    raise errorclass, errorvalue
> Warning: Rows matched: 1  Changed: 0  Warnings: 1
> 
> The same sql query executed using MySQLFront client works without any
> problems. So, I think the problem must be with MySQLdb 0.9.2 module.
> 
> Any suggestions?
> 
> --
> JZ

jz,
    A MYSQL "text" type can be 0 to 65535 bytes; a "mediumtext"
type 2**8 times as big. Just a guess but maybe the failing
insert checks the sizes and the 'working' one just chops off
the excess. You could alter the column and try it fairly
easily.
wes



From newsgroups at jhrothjr.com  Tue Apr 13 09:40:03 2004
From: newsgroups at jhrothjr.com (John Roth)
Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2004 09:40:03 -0400
Subject: FutureWarning question
References: <16mnetilcmds6.1apnyu46tbjpw.dlg@40tude.net>
Message-ID: <107nretba0fikbd@news.supernews.com>


"Mike" <mike at nospam.com> wrote in message
news:16mnetilcmds6.1apnyu46tbjpw.dlg at 40tude.net...
> I ran across the message below in 2.3.2 today. These are the lines of
code:
>
>    402: if m1_hi >> 15 & 0x0001 == 1:
>    403:    m1_hi = m1_hi | 0xFFFF0000
>    404: if m1_lo >> 15 & 0x0001 == 1:
>    405:    m1_lo = m1_lo | 0xFFFF0000
>
> This is the warning message:
>
>    pwg.py:403: FutureWarning: hex/oct constants > sys.maxint will return
>    positive values in Python 2.4 and up
>       m1_hi = m1_hi | 0xFFFF0000
>    pwg.py:405: FutureWarning: hex/oct constants > sys.maxint will return
>    positive values in Python 2.4 and up
>       m1_lo = m1_lo | 0xFFFF0000
>
> m1_hi and m1_lo are 32 bit values read from a file. It's not clear to me
> what the warning message means. The only constant is 0xffff0000; does the
> message mean that the result of the OR operation won't be what I think it
> is? Can anyone elucidate?

It doesn't have anything to do with bitwise operations. What it has to
do with is that 0xFFFF0000 is a negative number today, and it
will be a positive number in 2.4 As far as I can tell, the bitwise
operations are not affected. See PEP 237
(http://www.python.org/peps/pep-0237.html) for the explanation.

John Roth

>
> Thanks,
>
> -- Mike --




From nico-NoSp at m-tekNico.net  Fri Apr 16 12:20:28 2004
From: nico-NoSp at m-tekNico.net (Nicola Larosa)
Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2004 18:20:28 +0200
Subject: List vs tuples
In-Reply-To: <7illl3dxcf.fsf@enark.csis.hku.hk>
References: <c54cjb$5fs$1@planja.arnes.si> <107bf8q8fhsmg5e@news.supernews.com>
	<7in05lfpqt.fsf@enark.csis.hku.hk>
	<107d52rib5bfrd7@news.supernews.com>
	<7illl3dxcf.fsf@enark.csis.hku.hk>
Message-ID: <c5p13a$17m$1@newsreader.mailgate.org>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

> So I don't buy that line of thoughts.  Lists is something that can change,
> and tuples is something that can't change

Amen to that, my thoughts exactly. The fact that our beloved BDFL follows the
other line of thought does not change matters, except for the unfortunate
detail that tuples do not have the "index" and "count" methods that lists
have, and that tuples definitely *should* have, too.


- --
Nicola Larosa - nico-NoSp at m-tekNico.net

Aki:  "I don't know how much time I have left."
Gary: "Who does?"
 -- "Final Fantasy: The Spirits Within" movie

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Version: GnuPG v1.2.4 (GNU/Linux)

iD8DBQFAgAfKXv0hgDImBm4RAu5yAJ4ywoypS2HfvJ3BOhrPUVYia6H8IQCfd0w/
hAviP3pdzNcOKRLrJXne26c=
=lKzF
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From bkc at Murkworks.com  Tue Apr 13 13:33:56 2004
From: bkc at Murkworks.com (Brad Clements)
Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2004 13:33:56 -0400
Subject: embedding python
References: <fg6qk1-jac.ln1@netzen.intra.faino.org><mailman.552.1081794955.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<f5drk1-g6j.ln1@netzen.intra.faino.org>
Message-ID: <c5h8a7$pki$1@sea.gmane.org>

"Andrea Fino" <af at faino.org> wrote in message
news:f5drk1-g6j.ln1 at netzen.intra.faino.org...
> Brad Clements wrote:

> > You didn't mention which OS you want.
> >
> Yeah, you right sorry about that. It's linux in 2.4 version with the
> normal glibc (i don't remenber which version).
> Thanks.

I used uClibc and had problems with Posix threads. This was .. about 11
months ago.

If you're using standard glibc than I think you won't have any problems.






From donn at u.washington.edu  Fri Apr 23 18:34:57 2004
From: donn at u.washington.edu (Donn Cave)
Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2004 15:34:57 -0700
Subject: Why we will use obj$func() often
References: <d2Uhc.22272$dZ1.1600@fed1read04> <84Uhc.22278$dZ1.5087@fed1read04>
	<mailman.927.1082665370.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<8AWhc.23114$dZ1.11070@fed1read04> <40883BFE.B381518A@alcyone.com>
	<27_hc.23801$dZ1.2716@fed1read04> <40887145.789A2FE8@alcyone.com>
	<7cki80hj976bia36lhf9er97v073o1pqvm@4ax.com>
	<w8dic.28710$dZ1.11206@fed1read04> <ulXiAls/KH1K089yn@the-wire.com>
	<lkfic.29767$dZ1.17301@fed1read04>
Message-ID: <donn-66132E.15345723042004@nntp3.u.washington.edu>

In article <lkfic.29767$dZ1.17301 at fed1read04>,
 "Mark Hahn" <mark at prothon.org> wrote:

> "Mel Wilson" <mwilson at the-wire.com> wrote in message
> news:ulXiAls/KH1K089yn at the-wire.com...
> 
> > It can, if you spell '&' differently:
> >
> > def getfunc():
> >     def count (n=[0]):
> >         n[0] += 1
> >         print n[0]
> >     return count
> >
> > c = getfunc()
> > c()
> > c()
> > c()
> 
> True.  A bit inelegant, but then so is &.
> 
> Would you trade the "mutable integer" and "count(n=[0])" kludges for a
> solution like &count ?  Does anyone agree with me that a "closure variable
> prefix" is more explicit and readable?
> 
> Let's seperate the aesthetic issues of using "Perl-like" symbols from the
> "closure variable prefix" functionality for a moment.  I'd like feedback on
> both issues, but try to keep them sep~rate.

I don't think a closure variable prefix sounds very good.

What you're doing there looks to me a bit like Objective
CAML's ref type.  "a = ref 0" is a mutable container for an
immutable integer.  It's just syntactic sugar for a mutable
record;  the sugar is the assignment a := 1, and then there's
some special dereference notation -- a := !a + 1, something
like that, I forget.

There could be a case for a mutable-container-of-one-item
type in Python, with or without special syntax.  Without
the syntax, it's still mildly interesting because it expresses
intent - both to the human reader, and to other software
components which should not be invited to delete or add
items etc.

class Ref:
        def __init__(self, a):
                self.value = a
        def __setattr__(self, a, v):
                if a == 'value':
                        self.__dict__['value'] = v
                else:
                        raise AttributeError, a

var = Ref(0)

var.value = var.value + 1


I personally think syntactic sugar wouldn't add any real
value to that, but that just seems to be one of those
matters of taste, where some people like languages like
Pe... oops.

   Donn Cave, donn at u.washingtno.edu


From skip at pobox.com  Wed Apr 28 07:48:07 2004
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Wed, 28 Apr 2004 06:48:07 -0500
Subject: Is Perl *that* good?
In-Reply-To: <noydnQuaxutgNxPdRVn-hw@powergate.ca>
References: <c6ich0$c5mee$1@ID-205437.news.uni-berlin.de>
	<iL3jc.232$Yc.2330@news4.e.nsc.no>
	<108q51j4dscn7dc@corp.supernews.com>
	<knbjc.267$id.3998@news2.e.nsc.no>
	<pan.2004.04.26.20.50.19.843510@hotmail.com>
	<87fzaqmm8t.fsf@strauser.com>
	<38ec68a6.0404262308.50029919@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.49.1083084698.25742.python-list@python.org>
	<pan.2004.04.27.18.15.56.169064@hotmail.com>
	<noydnQuaxutgNxPdRVn-hw@powergate.ca>
Message-ID: <16527.39415.518927.299648@montanaro.dyndns.org>


    > If only compiled regular expression objects allowed easy access to the
    > last match object, python regxes would become significantly more
    > convenient.  For example, today you have to write:
    > 
    > m = myregex.match(line)
    > if (m):
    >   xyz = m.group('xyz')
    > 
    > It would be much easier to do:
    > 
    > if myregex.match(line):
    >   xyz = myregex.lastm.group('xyz')
    > 
    > Having to introduce a new variable name for a match object just
    > muddles the code unnecessarily in common regex usage scenarios.

Sure, it's more convenient but it's not thread-safe.  The old regex package
used to do this.  When Perl-compatible regular expressions were introduced
into Python it was removed precisely because of that limitation.  As Peter
Hansen pointed out, if you want that behavior you can write it on a
per-application basis.

Skip



From tjreedy at udel.edu  Thu Apr 22 19:54:47 2004
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2004 19:54:47 -0400
Subject: Deleting objects - my earler post got garbled
References: <b4a8ffb6.0404221209.d612c6@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <c69m01$9rj$1@sea.gmane.org>

Your original post may have been garbled, but our answers were not.






From tezt at email.si  Thu Apr  8 12:51:21 2004
From: tezt at email.si (Mitja)
Date: Thu, 8 Apr 2004 18:51:21 +0200
Subject: OT: making queues in DB
Message-ID: <c54cjc$5fs$2@planja.arnes.si>

I just posted a more theoretical question here, and since this is of more
practical nature, I decided to make a new post. It doesn't have much to do
with Python, it's just a thing I came across when making a CGI-driven
webpage.

I have a games page, on which I would like to display a list of 10 last
downloaded games. Therefore, I'd need a kind of queue in the database. What
is the best way to go about this? Extending each game's entry with a
"timelastdownloaded"-like column is of course an option, but I don't favor
it too much.




From theller at python.net  Fri Apr 30 15:10:33 2004
From: theller at python.net (Thomas Heller)
Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2004 21:10:33 +0200
Subject: uuid generator
References: <mailman.91.1083177468.25742.python-list@python.org>
	<wzoep9l6uq.fsf@Ordesa.local>
Message-ID: <wu3x9t92.fsf@python.net>

Piet van Oostrum <piet at cs.uu.nl> writes:

>>>>>> Marcello Pietrobon <teiffel at attglobal.net> (MP) wrote:
>
> MP> Hello,
> MP> I need to read newly generated uuid from Python
> MP> but I am not sure if
> MP> http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Cookbook/Python/Recipe/163604
>
> MP> is the right code
>
> There's another one at http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Cookbook/Python/Recipe/213761

I posted ctypes code which wraps libuuid.so on linux, a while ago.
And someone else in the same thread posted a C wrapper.

<http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=isv9eomw.fsf%40python.net>

Thomas




From claird at lairds.com  Sat Apr 24 18:32:09 2004
From: claird at lairds.com (Cameron Laird)
Date: Sat, 24 Apr 2004 22:32:09 -0000
Subject: command-line args
References: <mailman.5.1082827225.27400.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <108lqn9mdimaq1a@corp.supernews.com>

In article <mailman.5.1082827225.27400.python-list at python.org>,
Peter Hansen <peter at engcorp.com> wrote:
			.
			.
			.
>What I mean is this.
>
>You create globals.py ahead of time, the usual way with a text
>editor.  It can contain defaults if you wish, or be empty. E.g.:
>
>(globals.py)
>logging = False
>userName = None
>timeout = 5.0
>
>Then you simply import this where you are doing the command-line
>argument parsing:
>
>import globals, getopt
>opts, args = getopt.getopt(sys.argv[1:], 'at:fse:')  # or whatever
>for opt, val in opts:
>    if opt = '-t':
>        globals.timeout = float(val)
>    # etc etc
>
>
>Then, elsewhere where you need to use the values, just do another
>import.
>
>(some code that needs to know the timeout)
>
>import globals, time
>time.sleep(globals.timeout)
># or whatever
>
>
>There is no reason to create the .py file on the fly...
>
>(This works because after the first import of a module inside an
>application, subsequent imports do *not* re-read the .py file,
>but simply get a reference to the already-imported module object
>from the sys.modules dictionary.)
			.
			.
			.
You seem to have given Michael everything he needed.  I don't
get it, though.  Why must "some code that needs to know the
timeout" import globals?  In what context would it not already
be present?
-- 

Cameron Laird <claird at phaseit.net>
Business:  http://www.Phaseit.net


From project5 at redrival.net  Fri Apr 16 13:52:42 2004
From: project5 at redrival.net (Andrei)
Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2004 19:52:42 +0200
Subject: Learning about dictionaries
References: <b4a8ffb6.0404160850.42c0ccf@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <40801d6a$0$64604$4a441750@news.euronet.nl>

Thomas Philips wrote on Friday 16 April 2004 18:50:

> I'm teaching myself python and in the course of playing around with
> dictionaries, I tried to create the following trivial dictionary
> 
> {1:'one', 2:'two'}
> 
> So I entered
>>>> dict(1='one',2='two')
> SyntaxError: keyword can't be an expression

Try doing 1 = 'one' in the interactive interpreter. Does it work? Nope. Did
you expect it to work? (Hopefully not :).) So obviously it doesn't work
inside a function call neither.

> Out of curiosity, I tried
>>>> dict(one=1,two=2)
> {'two': 2, 'one': 1}

Bingo :). Python has a special construct for functions which accept any
numbers of keyword arguments (these are arguments which have the form of
<name>=<object>, as opposed to non-keyword arguments which are just
<object>). This means that you don't have to specify the parameters in
advance like this:

>>> def myfunc(a, b):
...     pass

Instead, you allow any number of parameters to be passed to the function
using '**'

>>> def myfunc(**kwds):
...     print kwds 
...     # kwds is a dictionary containing all parametername-value pairs
...
>>> myfunc(a='5', b=6, c=True)
{'a': '5', 'c': True, 'b': 6}

You can modify myfunc now very easily to behave like dict() in this
particular case:

>>> def myfunc(**kwds):
...     return kwds
...
>>> mydict =  myfunc(a='5', b=6, c=True)
>>> print mydict
{'a': '5', 'c': True, 'b': 6}

The method Wes specified for creating dictionaries is more useful and usable
IMO than dict() with keyword parameters.

-- 
Yours,

Andrei

=====
Real contact info (decode with rot13):
cebwrpg5 at jnanqbb.ay. Fcnz-serr! Cyrnfr qb abg hfr va choyvp cbfgf. V ernq
gur yvfg, fb gurer'f ab arrq gb PP.


From python-url at phaseit.net  Wed Apr 28 10:34:19 2004
From: python-url at phaseit.net (John J Lee)
Date: Wed, 28 Apr 2004 14:34:19 -0000
Subject: Dr. Dobb's Python-URL! - weekly Python news and links (Apr 28)
Message-ID: <108vg7br1jpggf1@corp.supernews.com>

QOTW:  "The site that I worked on spent TWO MILLION U.S. DOLLARS on its web
server hardware.  OK, it used Java servlets that are even slower than Python,
but you have to understand that there's a point after which you can no longer
pretend that hardware is free."  -- Paul Rubin

"Monte Carlo sampling is no way to understand code." -- Gordon McMillan


    Martin v. Loewis clarifies what entities might "compete" with Python
	http://www.google.com/groups?selm=c4sqle%24ds%2403%241%40news.t-online.com

    Peter Otten determines to find the simplest way of automatically
    assigning instance attributes from an argument list
        http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=c6alei$hv4$05$1 at news.t-online.com
        http://groups.google.com/groups?threadm=c6alei%24hv4%2405%241%40news.t-online.com

    Is application-level configuration worth its own "advanced ... parser
    and validator"?  Is working with*out* tconfpy any more sensible?  Give
    thanks to Tim Daneliuk
	http://www.tundraware.com/Software/tconfpy/
    
    A question from a Delphi user about getters and setters in Python
    elicits a good set of URLs on properties
        http://groups.google.com/groups?&threadm=407e402c%241%40newsflash.abo.fi
    
    The long-awaited SciPy 0.3 arrives
        http://groups.google.com/groups?&selm=mailman.880.1082583661.20120.python-list at python.org
    
    Alan Kennedy bravely works through a concrete example of management
    of Word-as-XML
        http://groups.google.com/groups?frame=left&th=fa888d67a6991cfd

    Python 2.4 is on its way
        http://python.org/peps/pep-0320.html
    
    Francois Pinard believes he improves on Guido's main() model
	http://groups.google.com/groups?frame=left&th=f94d0e366becbbca

    Michael Hudson Thinks Like a Pythonista about stacklessness,
    bytecodehacks, and more
	http://starship.python.net/crew/mwh/hacks/

    Ero Carrera's pydot interface to the graphviz graph visualization
    library (the "nodes and edges" kind of graph) is addictive
        http://dkbza.org/pydot.html


========================================================================
Everything Python-related you want is probably one or two clicks away in
these pages:

    Python.org's Python Language Website is the traditional
    center of Pythonia
        http://www.python.org
    Notice especially the master FAQ
        http://www.python.org/doc/FAQ.html

    PythonWare complements the digest you're reading with the
    marvelous daily python url
         http://www.pythonware.com/daily  
    Mygale is a news-gathering webcrawler that specializes in (new)
    World-Wide Web articles related to Python.
         http://www.awaretek.com/nowak/mygale.html 
    While cosmetically similar, Mygale and the Daily Python-URL
    are utterly different in their technologies and generally in
    their results.

    comp.lang.python.announce announces new Python software.  Be
    sure to scan this newsgroup weekly.
        http://groups.google.com/groups?oi=djq&as_ugroup=comp.lang.python.announce

    Brett Cannon continues the marvelous tradition established by 
    Andrew Kuchling and Michael Hudson of intelligently summarizing
    action on the python-dev mailing list once every other week.
	http://www.python.org/dev/summary/

    The Python Package Index catalogues packages.
        http://www.python.org/pypi/

    The somewhat older Vaults of Parnassus ambitiously collects references
    to all sorts of Python resources.
        http://www.vex.net/~x/parnassus/   

    Much of Python's real work takes place on Special-Interest Group
    mailing lists
        http://www.python.org/sigs/

    The Python Business Forum "further[s] the interests of companies
    that base their business on ... Python."
	http://www.python-in-business.org

    The Python Software Foundation (PSF) has replaced the Python
    Consortium as an independent nexus of activity.  It has official
    responsibility for Python's development and maintenance. 
        http://www.python.org/psf/
    Among the ways you can support PSF is with a donation.
        http://www.python.org/psf/donate.html

    Cetus collects Python hyperlinks.
        http://www.cetus-links.org/oo_python.html

    Python FAQTS
        http://python.faqts.com/

    The Cookbook is a collaborative effort to capture useful and
    interesting recipes.
	http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Cookbook/Python

    Among several Python-oriented RSS/RDF feeds available are
	http://www.python.org/channews.rdf
	http://bootleg-rss.g-blog.net/pythonware_com_daily.pcgi
	http://python.de/backend.php
    For more, see
	http://www.syndic8.com/feedlist.php?ShowMatch=python&ShowStatus=all
    The old Python "To-Do List" now lives principally in a
    SourceForge reincarnation.
        http://sourceforge.net/tracker/?atid=355470&group_id=5470&func=browse
        http://python.sourceforge.net/peps/pep-0042.html
     
    The online Python Journal is posted at pythonjournal.cognizor.com.
    editor at pythonjournal.com and editor at pythonjournal.cognizor.com
    welcome submission of material that helps people's understanding
    of Python use, and offer Web presentation of your work.

    *Py: the Journal of the Python Language*
        http://www.pyzine.com

    Archive probing tricks of the trade:
        http://groups.google.com/groups?oi=djq&as_ugroup=comp.lang.python&num=100
        http://groups.google.com/groups?meta=site%3Dgroups%26group%3Dcomp.lang.python.*

Previous - (U)se the (R)esource, (L)uke! - messages are listed here:
  http://www.ddj.com/topics/pythonurl/         
  http://purl.org/thecliff/python/url.html (dormant)
or
  http://groups.google.com/groups?oi=djq&as_q=+Python-URL!&as_ugroup=comp.lang.python


Suggestions/corrections for next week's posting are always welcome.
E-mail to <Python-URL at phaseit.net> should get through.

To receive a new issue of this posting in e-mail each Monday morning
(approximately), ask <claird at phaseit.net> to subscribe.  Mention
"Python-URL!".


-- The Python-URL! Team--

Dr. Dobb's Journal (http://www.ddj.com) is pleased to participate in and
sponsor the "Python-URL!" project.



From peter at engcorp.com  Wed Apr 14 09:48:07 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2004 09:48:07 -0400
Subject: Pygame
In-Reply-To: <c5jdv2$s4$1@orkan.itea.ntnu.no>
References: <c5jdv2$s4$1@orkan.itea.ntnu.no>
Message-ID: <xZydnfgqeaiK3ODdRVn-tw@powergate.ca>

Alexander R?dseth wrote:
> Why isn't Pygame a part of Python?

What do you think should be the criteria for deciding whether
something "is part of Python" or isn't?

Keep in mind that your guidelines should be applied somewhat
consistently to all packages that might be possibly be included.

And keep in mind that no one wants Python to be a 150MB download...

-Peter


From dwelch91 at comcast.net  Fri Apr  9 13:07:05 2004
From: dwelch91 at comcast.net (djw)
Date: Fri, 09 Apr 2004 17:07:05 GMT
Subject: module not callable - why not?
In-Reply-To: <c56jph$rrk$05$1@news.t-online.com>
References: <c56jph$rrk$05$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <VKAdc.360$rC3.22993@attbi_s53>

Diez B. Roggisch wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> I just thought about creating a module for quaternions (as an personal
> exercise, so I'm not after pointers to classlibs here).
> 
> Now usually I'd create a file called "quaternion.py", define my quaternion
> class in there and then import and create an instance like this:
> 
> import quaternion
> 
> q = quaternion.quaternion()
> 
> Thats a lot to type. doing a 
> 
> from quaternion import quaternion 
> 
> would solve that - but AFAIK thats considered bad for some reasons.

I think what people consider dangerous is 'from <module> import *'. The 
form you give here is OK, as far as I know.

> 
> Now I thought about defining a __call__ operator at module level to allow
> this:
> 
> import quaternion
> 
> q = quaternion()
> 
> 
> where the call looks like this:
> 
> def __call__(*a, *kw):
>     return quaternion()
> 
> But that doesn't work. 
> 
> Now my question is: Is there a way to make a module callable that way? And
> wouldn't it make sense to allow the implementation of a call operator on
> module level?

I know this has been discussed before (using __main__() instead). Try 
googling for some discussions.

-Don



From harry.g.george at boeing.com  Thu Apr  1 11:54:58 2004
From: harry.g.george at boeing.com (Harry George)
Date: Thu, 1 Apr 2004 16:54:58 GMT
Subject: ftpmirror.py in reverse?
Message-ID: <xqxwu4zk599.fsf@cola2.ca.boeing.com>

I maintain a website on a local machine, and want to maintain a clone
of it on a www-visible remote machine via ftp.  I.e., local to remote.

Going remote to local, ftpmirror.py would (I understand) do the job.

Is there some tool available (or even a parameter for ftpmirror.py)
which can do local-->remote?



-- 
harry.g.george at boeing.com
6-6M21 BCA CompArch Design Engineering
Phone: (425) 342-0007


From thefirstofnovember at yahoo.com  Thu Apr 22 14:50:32 2004
From: thefirstofnovember at yahoo.com (Kim)
Date: 22 Apr 2004 11:50:32 -0700
Subject: Getting output from embedded python program
References: <2aa196bb.0404190554.74631058@posting.google.com>
	<4084B179.6020807@magma-da.com>
Message-ID: <2aa196bb.0404221050.38f806@posting.google.com>

Hi Rich, 
You post is extremely useful. However when I tried to run the
expression in My Module's context, instead of __main__ module. It
always retunns NULL. How can I do that? I tried PyRun_String().. but
didn't work. i don't really understand global and local arguments in
PyRun_String(), token is set to 0?

THanks very much !
Kim

> ...
> PyObject* evalModule;
> PyObject* evalDict;
> PyObject* evalVal;
> char* retString;
> 
> PyRun_SimpleString( "result = 'foo' + 'bar'" )
> 
> evalModule = PyImport_AddModule( (char*)"__main__" );
> evalDict = PyModule_GetDict( evalModule );
> evalVal = PyDict_GetItemString( evalDict, "result" );
> 
> if( evalVal == NULL ) {
>      PyErr_Print();
>      exit( 1 );
> 
> } else {
>      /*
>       * PyString_AsString returns char* repr of PyObject, which should
>       * not be modified in any way...this should probably be copied for
>       * safety
>       */
>      retString = PyString_AsString( evalVal );
> }
> ...
> 
>     In this case, you need to know that the expression will evaluate to 
> a string result in order to call PyString_AsString().  If you don't know 
> this, you will have to check the type of the PyObject first.


From deetsNOSPAM at web.de  Thu Apr 29 09:01:38 2004
From: deetsNOSPAM at web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Thu, 29 Apr 2004 15:01:38 +0200
Subject: How to find the length of an iterator?
References: <1a6oinf1xl5ui$.dlg@thorstenkampe.de>
Message-ID: <c6qusl$fbu8a$1@ID-111250.news.uni-berlin.de>

Thorsten Kampe wrote:

> What is the best way to find out the length of an iterator? len()
> doesn't work. In the above code snippet[1] I am only interested in the
> index (= length of the iterator), so I'm using len(list(iterator))...
> 
> Anything better?

Its the nature of an iterator that it doesn't support anything beyond access
to the current item and signaling when its finished. So if you need the
length, try to get a hold on the underlying connection.

-- 
Regards,

Diez B. Roggisch


From tor.iver.wilhelmsen at broadpark.no  Sat Apr 24 15:26:54 2004
From: tor.iver.wilhelmsen at broadpark.no (Tor Iver Wilhelmsen)
Date: 24 Apr 2004 21:26:54 +0200
Subject: 3D Graphics Engine
References: <8089854e.0404130639.3eb0db62@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <u7jw5jhxd.fsf@broadpark.no>

michael at foord.net (Fuzzyman) writes:

> Platform for development (!) is win32 - so I would like an engine with
> precompiled binaries and a documented python binding available. A
> freeware object modeller

IRRLicht has a Python binding, you could try that.

IRRLicht: http://irrlicht.sourceforge.net/downloads.html

Venom: http://stenhard.net/download.php?list.6


From http  Wed Apr 14 06:25:27 2004
From: http (Paul Rubin)
Date: 14 Apr 2004 03:25:27 -0700
Subject: spherical coordinates
References: <20040414111334.34b5d225@pistache.sara.nl>
	<c5j28h$j3m$1@swifty.westend.com>
Message-ID: <7x1xmqua94.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

Peter Maas <peter.maas at mplusr.de> writes:
> r = sqrt(x**2 + y**2)
> phi = atan(y/x)

Better use phi=atan2(y,x) in case x=0.  Similarly for the other atan calls.


From harry.g.george at boeing.com  Tue Apr 27 09:36:46 2004
From: harry.g.george at boeing.com (Harry George)
Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2004 13:36:46 GMT
Subject: python under subversion (svn)
Message-ID: <xqxvfjlzgnl.fsf@cola2.ca.boeing.com>

I'm experimenting with svn.  What is the best way to set up the
original project, anticipating "importing" to a truck-and-branch
world? 

When I start I have:
  myproject/
    doc/
    mypackage/
      stable.py
      changing.py
    test/
      go_test

To do branches, I think I'm supposed to get to end up with:

myproject/
  trunk/
    doc/
    mypackage/
      stable.py
    test/
      go_test
  branches/
    branch1/
      mypackage/
        changing.py
      test/
        go_test

But a simple "import" of the starting project doesn't get me to the
endpoint, and the "go_test" scripts have to be tweaked to point to the
right PYTHONPATH's to pickup both stable and changing modules. 

Am I correctly understanding the problem?  Are there clean solutions?
Should I be totally replicating the whole project under trunk and each
branch, instead of trying to keep some items on the trunk?



-- 
harry.g.george at boeing.com
6-6M21 BCA CompArch Design Engineering
Phone: (425) 342-0007


From kfast at poczta.onet.pl  Wed Apr 14 17:04:36 2004
From: kfast at poczta.onet.pl (Jakub Fast)
Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2004 23:04:36 +0200
Subject: Pygame
In-Reply-To: <hmvj5c.pv1.ln@nemesis.homeinvalid>
References: <c5jdv2$s4$1@orkan.itea.ntnu.no>	<xZydnfgqeaiK3ODdRVn-tw@powergate.ca>	<c5jgvh$2m5$1@orkan.itea.ntnu.no>	<mailman.620.1081958099.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<hmvj5c.pv1.ln@nemesis.homeinvalid>
Message-ID: <407DA764.9080806@poczta.onet.pl>

> 
> the lgpl license _is_ commercial-friendly.
> 

AFAIK, you're required to provide the ability to re-link the application 
with newer version of the lgpl'd library. this involoves the obligation 
to at least provide the source code of the library -- which doesn't seem 
like something you'd always want to expose your end users too.

note that many projects specifically modify the lgpl for it to be what i 
consider commercial-friendly -- vide wxwidgets, for example.


kuba



From fumanchu at amor.org  Thu Apr  8 11:34:03 2004
From: fumanchu at amor.org (Robert Brewer)
Date: Thu, 8 Apr 2004 08:34:03 -0700
Subject: getattr() in default namespace.
Message-ID: <DE1CF2B4FEC4A342BF62B6B2B334601E561FCF@opus.amorhq.net>

SimonVC wrote:
> How do you use getattr() to get a refernce to a function defined in
> the default namespace..

If you must use getattr, and you're doing this in a module, try:

import sys

def b():
    pass

print getattr(sys.modules[__name__], 'b')



FuManChu



From theller at python.net  Wed Apr 14 09:22:27 2004
From: theller at python.net (Thomas Heller)
Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2004 15:22:27 +0200
Subject: Unable to create com object - need help
References: <2D89F6C4A80FA547BF5D5B8FDDD04523060C63@exchange.adrembi.com>
Message-ID: <isg2u224.fsf@python.net>

"Roman Yakovenko" <roman.yakovenko at actimize.com> writes:

> I tried your module. It seems that you generate code right :-)
> but IEnumUnknown doesn't defined in any file. 

There is still the problem that sometimes the order of the definitions
is wrong.
You have to move the definition of IEnumUnknown *before* the definition
of IDiaTable (where IEnumUnknown is used).

A patch I just cooked up myself would be to replace these lines:
            interfaces.sort(self.depends)
            for itf in interfaces:
                print >> ofi
                print >> ofi, itf.declaration()
with these:
            done = ["IUnknown", "IDispatch", "dispinterface"]
            while interfaces:
                interfaces = [i for i in interfaces if i.name not in done]
                for itf in interfaces:
                    for b in itf._uses:
                        if b not in done:
                            break
                    else:
                        print >> ofi
                        print >> ofi, itf.declaration()
                        done.append(itf.name)

This is near line 740 in readtlb.py.

Thomas




From deetsNOSPAM at web.de  Mon Apr 26 09:38:04 2004
From: deetsNOSPAM at web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2004 15:38:04 +0200
Subject: Regular Expressions
References: <c6j0ht$ed0$1@atlantis.news.tpi.pl>
Message-ID: <c6j3sc$br0hn$1@ID-111250.news.uni-berlin.de>

> <FONT COLOR="#FF0000">A - TYPE1: any_text<BR>
> B - TYPE2: any_text_2<BR>
> C - TYPE2: any_text_3<BR>
> w - any_text_15<BR>
> </FONT>
> html code
> </BODY></HTML>
> 
> I need to have only following data:
> (B, any_text_2)
> (C, any_text_3)
> that is, these data TYPE2 in which.

you should utilize the htmlparser class to extract the text first. Then this
regular expression might help:

r"(.) TYPE. : (.*)"

 
-- 
Regards,

Diez B. Roggisch


From jepler at unpythonic.net  Fri Apr 23 07:30:12 2004
From: jepler at unpythonic.net (Jeff Epler)
Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2004 06:30:12 -0500
Subject: Why we will use obj$func() often
In-Reply-To: <no4ic.26268$dZ1.11413@fed1read04>
References: <mailman.939.1082697809.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<no4ic.26268$dZ1.11413@fed1read04>
Message-ID: <20040423113011.GA2150@unpythonic.net>

On Fri, Apr 23, 2004 at 01:24:42AM -0700, Mark Hahn wrote:
> My biggest problem right now is stupid aesthetics.  I have to decide where
> to place Prothon on the continuum between lisp and perl.  When I crossed the
> line and added $ for self people screamed bloody murder that it looked like
> Perl.  Before when I had a period for self they thought it looked great.  I
> can't believe how much they care about something so silly.

I didn't know about your ^ syntax either.

In Python, there is one way[*] to get an attribute on an object.  This
works whether it's a data attribute on the instance, a data attribute on
the class or a superclass, an instancemethod, classmethod, or
staticmethod:

    obj.attr

Having all of obj.attr, obj$attr and obj^attr *does* reek of perl's
$var, @var, %var distinction (which I have never bothered to
understand).

To me it looks like you've eliminated/combined one thing (instances +
classes become objects) but as a result you've had to invent two new
kinds of complication.

What may have made people jump to a conclusion about $ is that you wrote
something like "$ will remind users of $elf".  This reeks of Perl's bad
explanations of why all their internal variables with punctuation names
are really mnemonic for something:
       $/      The input record separator, newline by default.
               (Mnemonic: / delimits line boundaries when quoting poetry.)
       $.      Current line number for the last filehandle accessed.
               (Mnemonic: many programs use "." to mean the current line
               number.)
Yeah, right.

Jeff
[*] Yes, I know full well there are other ways you can do it
getattr(obj, "attr"), obj.__dict__['attr'], etc, etc.  My point is,
then, that everything can be done with a single "dotted name" syntax.



From nf2 at scheinwelt.at  Mon Apr 19 05:18:08 2004
From: nf2 at scheinwelt.at (n.o.)
Date: Mon, 19 Apr 2004 11:18:08 +0200
Subject: problem with commands.getstatusoutput/os.popen and pygtk
Message-ID: <pan.2004.04.19.09.18.07.625849@scheinwelt.at>

Hi!

Can you please help me with the following problem?

My application calls 

(rval, outp) = commands.getstatusoutput("...") 

inside a pygtk timer.

when i start the application from a terminal window, everything works.
when i use GNOME/"Run application" or a desktop launcher, i get
errorcode 35584 for rval.

i tried the thing with os.popen also - same problem.

thanks in advance,

norbert





From robin at SPAMREMOVEjessikat.fsnet.co.uk  Tue Apr 20 17:32:14 2004
From: robin at SPAMREMOVEjessikat.fsnet.co.uk (Robin Becker)
Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 22:32:14 +0100
Subject: here document as script and read from stdin
Message-ID: <408596DE.10004@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk>

Is it possible to use python with a shell HERE document as the script 
and read the standard input? In other words make python usable as a 
filter with a side input?

It doesn't seem to be obvous unless I can somehow use the -c option.
-- 
Robin Becker


From alan_salmoni at yahoo.com  Sun Apr  4 18:45:35 2004
From: alan_salmoni at yahoo.com (Alan James Salmoni)
Date: 4 Apr 2004 15:45:35 -0700
Subject: ANNOUNCE: 'goto' for Python
References: <mailman.210.1080803438.20120.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <b68f71a7.0404041445.78d95621@posting.google.com>

Wow! Thanks very much! Just what I've been looking for.

Umm, would it be possible to discuss a few other possibilities, like
in-line assembly language, GOSUB's, PEEK's, POKE's and file operations
only possible through direct access to the hard disk? I reckon with
these in place, we could out-obfuscate any Perl code in no time! ;^)

Oh damn, it's April 4th - jokes on me... =:/

Alan James Salmoni

Richie Hindle <richie at entrian.com> wrote in message news:<mailman.210.1080803438.20120.python-list at python.org>...
> Entrian Solutions is pleased to announce version 1.0 of the 'goto' module.
> 
> This adds the 'goto' and 'comefrom' keywords to Python 2.3, adding
> flexibility to Python's control flow mechanisms and allowing Python
> programmers to use many common control flow idioms that were previously
> denied to them.
> 
> 'goto' example: breaking out from a deeply nested loop:
> 
>     from goto import goto, label
>     for i in range(1, 10):
>         for j in range(1, 20):
>             for k in range(1, 30):
>                 print i, j, k
>                 if k == 3:
>                     goto .end
>     label .end
>     print "Finished\n"
> 
> 
> 'comefrom' example: letting cleanup code take control after an error.
> 
>     from goto import comefrom, label
>     def bigFunction():
>         setUp()
>         if not doFirstTask():
>             label .failed
>         if not doSecondTask():
>             label .failed
>         if not doThirdTask():
>             label .failed
>     
>         comefrom .failed
>         cleanUp()
> 
> Computed 'goto's are also supported - see the documentation for details.
> Computed 'comefrom's are planned for a future release.
> 
> Documentation and further examples:
>     http://entrian.com/goto/index.html
> 
> Downloads:
>     http://entrian.com/goto/download.html
> 
> The 'goto' module is released under the Python Software Foundation
> license, and requires Python 2.3 or later.
> 
> Please note that this version does not work at the interactive Python
> prompt - code importing 'goto' must be in a .py file.  This restriction
> will hopefully be lifted in a future release.


From cleso at hotmail.com  Tue Apr 13 22:47:17 2004
From: cleso at hotmail.com (Dave)
Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2004 19:47:17 -0700
Subject: Looking for Python Definition
References: <ZvSdnbu-i7FDF-Hd4p2dnA@comcast.com>
	<c5i35l$2274t$1@ID-203388.news.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <ze6dnco1h96qO-HdRVn-ug@comcast.com>

Andres,
Yes, my PC is a Compaq.
Thank you for the information.

-- Dave

"Andres Rosado-Sepulveda" <arosado at softhome.net> wrote in message
news:c5i35l$2274t$1 at ID-203388.news.uni-berlin.de...
> Dave wrote:
> > Greetings!
> > Python22 is installed on my WINXP Home PC.
> > I have no idea what is does, or why it is installed.
> > I am not a programmer and do not know what purpose this program provides
to
> > me.
> >
> > Any and all information and suggestions are welcome.
>
> Is your computer an HP or Compaq model? HP/Compaq's utilities are
> written in Python.
>
> -- 
> Andres Rosado
> Email: andresr at despammed.com
> Homepage: http://andres980.tripod.com/
>
> A man wrapped up in himself is a very small bundle.
>          -- Benjamin Franklin




From ml at dynkin.com  Wed Apr 21 23:56:54 2004
From: ml at dynkin.com (George Yoshida)
Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2004 12:56:54 +0900
Subject: zip 2 sequences into 1
In-Reply-To: <mailman.892.1082599859.20120.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.892.1082599859.20120.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <c67fq1$1pij$1@dojima-n0.hi-ho.ne.jp>

Neal Becker wrote:
> What's an easy/efficient way to zip together 2 (or more) sequences into a
> single sequence?
> 
How about

   itertools.chain(*zip(seq1, seq2, seq3, ...))

For example:

 >>> a = 'abcde'
 >>> b = range(5)
 >>> c = 'python'
 >>> from itertools import chain
 >>> list(chain(*zip(a,b,c)))
['a', 0, 'p', 'b', 1, 'y', 'c', 2, 't', 'd', 3, 'h', 'e', 4, 'o']

-- 
George


From adalke at mindspring.com  Sun Apr 11 18:55:02 2004
From: adalke at mindspring.com (Andrew Dalke)
Date: Sun, 11 Apr 2004 22:55:02 GMT
Subject: Compact Python library for math statistics
References: <E1B9LoV-0005OQ-00@fatlady.ukr.net>
	<mailman.267.1080904644.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<3064b51d.0404061038.4d69fd89@posting.google.com>
	<5d83790c.0404090024.5cefb2ea@posting.google.com>
	<3064b51d.0404091308.472dfb78@posting.google.com>
	<c59k27$jbi$1@news.service.uci.edu>
	<3064b51d.0404111025.646d4223@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <a1kec.6052$A_4.594@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>

<beliavsky at aol.com>
> My original code, the code with range replaced by xrange, and the code
> with the further replacement of "float(i)" with "i" take 22.0, 20.5,
> and 14.4 seconds. So it looks like removing unnecessary casts can save
> substantial time. Thanks.

The following should be even faster

def sum_sqrt(n):
  sum = 0.0
  for i in xrange(1, n):
    sum = sum + i ** 0.5
  return sum

print sum_sqrt(10000000 + 1)

Local variables have a fast lookup while module variables (that is,
ones outside a function) have to look up the variable in the
module dictionary.

Your code (in module scope) takes 24.5 seconds on my box
while my function version takes 17.5 seconds.

                    Andrew
                    dalke at dalkescientific.com




From ae  Sun Apr 11 20:54:18 2004
From: ae (A Evans)
Date: Sun, 11 Apr 2004 17:54:18 -0700
Subject: Python OS
References: <107j4eu6ffn2c68@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <107jq68ao58o7ff@corp.supernews.com>

Hey thanks everyone for the replies I guess it would be quite the task to
embark on I would like to do it and I think I will over the next couple of
years as my skills improve and I start saving some cash to get it off the
ground and to get other programmers and planners involved.

Cool the Open Source operating system of the future is going to happen I am
going to make it happen

Its a long road from here

Cheers

Andrew





From mark at prothon.org  Thu Apr 29 01:41:49 2004
From: mark at prothon.org (Mark Hahn)
Date: Wed, 28 Apr 2004 22:41:49 -0700
Subject: Why we will use obj$func() often
References: <d2Uhc.22272$dZ1.1600@fed1read04> <84Uhc.22278$dZ1.5087@fed1read04>
	<mailman.927.1082665370.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<8AWhc.23114$dZ1.11070@fed1read04> <40883BFE.B381518A@alcyone.com>
	<27_hc.23801$dZ1.2716@fed1read04> <40887145.789A2FE8@alcyone.com>
	<7cki80hj976bia36lhf9er97v073o1pqvm@4ax.com>
	<w8dic.28710$dZ1.11206@fed1read04> <ulXiAls/KH1K089yn@the-wire.com>
	<lkfic.29767$dZ1.17301@fed1read04>
	<donn-66132E.15345723042004@nntp3.u.washington.edu>
	<PLhic.30493$dZ1.22063@fed1read04>
	<c6huj3$c3s3f$1@ID-169208.news.uni-berlin.de>
	<u8zjc.7394$Qy.127@fed1read04>
	<c6ni3j$e0vbb$1@ID-169208.news.uni-berlin.de>
	<5vJjc.13116$Qy.1954@fed1read04>
	<donn-FB76CA.11024928042004@nntp3.u.washington.edu>
	<52Ujc.16275$Qy.3111@fed1read04>
	<c6q10s$esn2d$1@ID-169208.news.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <hz0kc.19931$Qy.10323@fed1read04>

Greg Ewing wrote:
> Mark Hahn wrote:
>> It turns out that Greg and I were mistaken.  The &var syntax can
>> easily handle unlimited nested scopes and not even slow up my
>> one-pass compiler.
>
> It does incur the expense of a run-time lookup for
> intermediate-scoped variables, however.

Prototype-based systems incur a prototype chain lookup expense on every
single attribute lookup.  This is a disadvantage compared to class-based
systems.  See the Lieberman paper linked near the top of the Prothon home
page.

That same paper also discusses a cache method that effectively eliminates
that expense.  That same expense and cache fix will apply without change to
the closure lookup.

So the bottom line is there will effectively be no expense.  We won't be
working on performance in Prothon until July or August though, so you'll
have to take my word on that until then.




From http  Mon Apr 19 21:40:41 2004
From: http (Paul Rubin)
Date: 19 Apr 2004 18:40:41 -0700
Subject: block ciphers
References: <7L_gc.53134$Gn6.49963@newssvr25.news.prodigy.com>
Message-ID: <7x3c6zqvdy.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

Trevor Perrin <trevp_spam at trevp.net> writes:
> Q: How about adding block ciphers to Python 2.4?
> 
> PEP 272 defines an API, and there's an excellent library that
> implements it [1].  It would be very little work to copy the AES and
> DES3 modules into stdlib (perhaps in a 'ciphers' package).

PEP 272 has an API for both block and stream ciphers, and the block
cipher API is kind of cumbersome.  I did some work a while back on
defining a new block cipher API and posted some about it back then.
I've been meaning to get that code out of mothballs and propose a new
PEP.  A sample implementation is at 

  http://www.nightsong.com/phr/crypto/blockcipher.tgz

but there are some things about it that I want to change.  I recently
used it to write a pure-Python script that decrypts PGP files, if
that's of any interest too.

> So is this totally out of the question?  Or would it be worth
> pursuing, through a PEP, or patch, or discussion on python-dev?

I'm not sure exactly what you're asking.


From maschio_77 at hotmail.com  Sun Apr  4 17:00:28 2004
From: maschio_77 at hotmail.com (Federico)
Date: Sun, 04 Apr 2004 23:00:28 +0200
Subject: where download mcmillan installer
Message-ID: <c4pt1j$hbk$1@lacerta.tiscalinet.it>

Hi, Where can I download the mcmillan installer utility? 
http://www.mcmillan-inc.com/ doesn't exist anymore?
Thanks



From tjreedy at udel.edu  Fri Apr 23 13:39:06 2004
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2004 13:39:06 -0400
Subject: AOP use cases
References: <84fc4588.0404140106.3fa0c55@posting.google.com><slrnc7q1ss.1aa.alf@largo.fayauffre.org><cb035744.0404141130.170f51c4@posting.google.com><slrnc7sgat.vp.alf@largo.fayauffre.org><cb035744.0404160442.2f0b1661@posting.google.com><0pydnSB4WYuieuLdRVn-hQ@powergate.ca><tyfbrlkv3ae.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch><XYmdnVLB9rjbARrdRVn-vg@powergate.ca><tyf7jw8utoo.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch><c68fj5$7bt$1@news1.wdf.sap-ag.de><tyfvfjst2k9.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch><tyffzav62ux.fsf@lxplus054.cern.ch><mailman.934.1082681832.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<tyfvfjrp2at.fsf@lxplus026.cern.ch>
Message-ID: <c6bkbj$4kv$1@sea.gmane.org>


"Jacek Generowicz" <jacek.generowicz at cern.ch> wrote in message
news:tyfvfjrp2at.fsf at lxplus026.cern.ch...
> "Terry Reedy" <tjreedy at udel.edu> writes:
>
> > The funny thing about this example is that its success critically
depends
> > on fib *not* being 'optimized' by having the recursive calls being
either
> > compiled as or replaced by (as with Hettinger's recent proposal)
efficient
> > local calls.

To be more precise, the example depends on dynamic lookup not being
disabled *before* the wrapping.  But I believe *after* would be ok.

> Please remember that the _point_ of the example is to show what
> separation of concerns is, in the context of the claim that C moving
> IO from language to library constitutes separation of concerns.

That may have been *your* point in writing it, but given that I never
seriously considered the claim you refuted as being worth much attention, I
had a different point in reading your example ;-)

> Picking nits in the implementation details is completely missing the
point.

Given that I expect to someday make use of Hettinger's recipe, it is not
nitpicking for me to notice the interaction between the two patterns and
how to mix them and get the intended result.

Terry J. Reedy






From dmq at gain.com  Wed Apr 28 14:35:32 2004
From: dmq at gain.com (David MacQuigg)
Date: Wed, 28 Apr 2004 11:35:32 -0700
Subject: Ideas for Python 3
References: <s1pt80h988ucqd8vbrd3occhpagtpssigg@4ax.com>
	<c6nj7m$e4nr8$1@ID-169208.news.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <botv80pm8boep0rpe95s747e1v0onkv8pa@4ax.com>

On Wed, 28 Apr 2004 18:33:24 +1200, Greg Ewing
<greg at cosc.canterbury.ac.nz> wrote:

>David MacQuigg wrote:
>> Explanation of Simplified Instance Variables
>> --------------------------------------------
>> """ Some of the variables inside the functions in a prototype have a
>> leading dot.  This is to distinguish local variables in the function
>> from "instance variables".  When a function is called from an instance
>> ( cat1.talk() ) a special global variable __self__ is automatically
>> assigned to that instance ( __self__ = cat1 )  Then when the function
>> needs an instance variable ( .sound ) it uses __self__ just as if you
>> had typed it in front of the dot ( __self__.sound )  The leading dot
>> is just an abbreviation to avoid typing __self__ everywhere.  """
>
>Explanation of Python Instance Variables, Omitting Unnecessary Words
>--------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>When a function is called from an instance (e.g. cat1.talk()),
>the instance is passed in as an extra parameter at the beginning
>of the parameter list, conventionally named 'self'. This allows
>you to refer to attributes of the instance as 'self.attrname'
>(e.g. self.sound).
>
>========== END ==============
>
>(I've left out mention of the difference between classes and
>instances, as you did in your explanation even though it's just
>as important in your scheme. Including it still wouldn't make
>my explanation significantly longer than yours.)

This seems much too brief for my taste.  I think some of the
"unnecessary words" will be very helpful for students.  I need other
opinions on this.

The distinction between calling from classes and calling from
instances is not necessary with the new syntax, because we don't have
the problem of needing a different calling sequence.  i.e. the student
doesn't have to remember cat1.talk() in one case and Mammal.talk(cat1)
in another.

With the new syntax, the distinction becomes important when we get to
bound and unbound functions (same as in Python), but that is later in
the chapter, not part of the introductory explanation.

I've started a new thread "Explanation of Instance Variables in
Python" so we can explore this topic more fully.

Thanks for your help.

-- Dave



From Mike at DeleteThis.Geary.com  Mon Apr 12 13:03:43 2004
From: Mike at DeleteThis.Geary.com (Michael Geary)
Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2004 10:03:43 -0700
Subject: Best IDE?
References: <c5bg1k$25vq$1@news.wplus.net>
Message-ID: <107livg4brum9af@corp.supernews.com>

> What's the best MSwindows editor for python?  I'm currently
> using PythonWin (ActiveState) at the moment, its a bit buggy -
> but not too bad. I mean, its got autocomplete & tips & help &
> autoindentaion (not always good tho).
>
> Thing is, I'm sure there is something better. Is there?
>
> (is there a VS.NET addin?)

Someone mentioned ActiveState's Visual Python addin for VS.NET. ActiveState
also has Komodo which I like quite a lot. I tried both Visual Python and
Komodo and found that I liked them about equally well. I ended up buying
Komodo because I can use it on Linux as well as Windows, and it supports
other languages in addition to Python.

For a VS.NET user like me, the nice thing about Komodo is that it feels just
like VS.NET. I can switch back and forth between VS.NET and Komodo without
having to switch mental gears.

I tried many other editors, including most of the ones mentioned in this
thread, and despite their good points I couldn't get comfortable with them.
One thing in particular that I found in many editors was poor typeface
support. For example, JEdit is a very powerful editor, but it doesn't
support ClearType! It has its own font anti-aliasing which is fairly pitiful
by comparison. I find that ClearType makes such a huge difference in eye
comfort for me that I won't consider an editor that doesn't support it. (I
use a ThinkPad with a high-density 1600 x 1200 15" display, and the Lucida
Console typeface with ClearType looks great on this display.)

Of course, YMMV, so the best thing is to download and try out a number of
editors and IDEs and see what fits your needs and style the best.

-Mike




From claird at lairds.com  Sat Apr  3 18:43:28 2004
From: claird at lairds.com (Cameron Laird)
Date: Sat, 03 Apr 2004 23:43:28 -0000
Subject: emergent/swarm/evolutionary systems etc
References: <c4aeq8$92a$1@hercules.btinternet.com>
	<c4jehj$6eh$1@titan.btinternet.com>
	<b58bdd20aeb4b31cdcfc2a4fc1054a3a@news.teranews.com>
	<c4k63o$bss$1@hercules.btinternet.com>
Message-ID: <106uj10g611v0f5@corp.supernews.com>

In article <c4k63o$bss$1 at hercules.btinternet.com>,
Peter MacKenzie <peter9547 at btinternet.com> wrote:
>Spreadsheets do seem to be an attractive option, but the benefits are not
>without their detractors:
>
>+Easy to work with
>+Require no/limited skill acquisition
>+Flexible
>
>-Cells can only hold single items of data (which can be worked around by
>using arrays of cells to hold multiple attributes for each location)
>-Require no/limited skill acquisition (being familiar and honest with my own
>psychological composition, I know that the only way I'm likely to develop a
>fair degree of programming competence is if there's a driving pressure to do
>so.  It's something I'd like to learn, and this gives me the excuse/leverage
>to do so.)
>
>Unknowns:  Time series graphical output would be necessary, even if it's
>very primitive.  Do you know if the spreadsheet could be set up in such a
>way that cells would change colour depending on their values, or if the
>graph making facilities would be able to create reasonable representations
>of said values so that a series of graphs would be capable of showing up
>phenomena with fluidic (wavelike, turbulent, etc) characteristics?
>
>I'm afraid the temptation to take the hard route my prove too great
>(psychological paradoxes: I always feel good about feeling so terrible about
>these things after I've passed the point of no return in the undertaking,
>and the enormity of the task at hand sinks in - it's a whole adrenalin
>thing), but I'd still like to make a comprehensive assessment of my options
>before I commit to anything.
>
>

Spreadsheets can do anything.  Python can do anything.

To first approximation, at least.  They both have developed
enough to have far more capabilities than you'll exhaust in
a couple of months.

The key questions are:  which better suit your psychology?
Which will get in the way less?  Which support "libraries"
of related material in your "domain" (geography)?

You're not experienced enough with software yet to judge
the first of these questions well.  Whatever first impres-
sions Python or Excel make on you are likely to dwindle to
insignicance after a few more weeks of software exploration.

One of the dimensions your comparison of the two approaches
doesn't cover is robustness of expression and abstraction. 
You aren't in a position to appreciate this yet, but Python
beats spreadsheets all to pieces in these regards.  Crudely,
you can hand a Python solution to someone else, two years
from now, and he'll understand what you've done, and how to
modify or validate or ... it.  I argue strongly that that is
*not* true for spreadsheet solutions.  I therefore regard
spreadsheet approaches, except in specialized circumstances,
as anti-scientific, because they don't promote the free
exchange of ideas.

There's a rich literature on simulation done with computers,
some of it specifically by those coming from geography.  It
would be no particular problem to dissipate the entire two
months just reading up on what you plan to do.  You need to
figure out a very circumscribed goal, and ask experts on what
you should do to achieve it.

Reading through *Thinking ... with Python* certainly can be
part of that path.
-- 

Cameron Laird <claird at phaseit.net>
Business:  http://www.Phaseit.net


From python at holdenweb.com  Tue Apr 13 10:33:55 2004
From: python at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2004 10:33:55 -0400
Subject: Simple discussion of python cgi approaches?
In-Reply-To: <153fa67.0404121727.45b23c30@posting.google.com>
References: <153fa67.0404121727.45b23c30@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <UZSec.630$2e6.71@lakeread01>

Kylotan wrote:

> [Apologies if anyone sees this twice - at first I attempted to post it
> via my ISP's news server, but my ISP is notorious for poor news
> handling and I don't see it on Google Groups as having got through
> yet.]
> 
> I've been writing a CGI app with Python 2.3 and Apache. It's ok, but a
> bit slow, and I assume a significant part of this is the process
> start-up time, among other things. So I'm interested in alternatives
> or optimisations. The problem is, there doesn't seem to be the kind of
> information out there that I want. There seem to be plenty of places
> that throw a list of URLs at you (eg.
> http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/moinmoin/WebProgramming,
> http://phaseit.net/claird/comp.lang.python/web_python.html), and a few
> sites that will give the absolute basics of CGI programming itself
> (which I don't need).
> 
There are many differeing opinions on this subject, so maybe you'll just 
have to accept that c.l.py responses reflect the prejudices of their 
authors. They will at least usually be better-informed than random web 
sites, one might hope.

> I'm particularly confused by a few people advocating things like
> Xitami + LRWP for being very simple, yet it can't possibly be simpler
> than just dropping a cgi script into a directory, as I do with Apache,
> and the docs on LRWP
> (http://www.imatix.com/html/xitami/index12.htm#TOC114) make it look
> like I'd have to do significant rewriting of the scripts. It describes
> itself as being like FastCGI which, if true, doesn't exactly endear
> FastCGI to me either.
> 
Well, you said you are looking for "alternatives or optimaizations", so 
it would appear that you feel you are approaching the limits of your 
simple approach. It's a very unsual solution that will be simpler, 
faster and cheaper than the "obvious" one, though such solutions aren't 
unheard of, even in the web world.

> All I want is a short description on the technologies that very
> closely resemble standard CGI, what they have to offer me, and what
> sort of alterations I would have to make to my installation or code in
> order to use these. Does such a comparison exist already? If not, is
> anybody able to comment on their own experiences with Python CGI apps?
> 
Well, let me briefly summaries the advantages of Xitami/LRWP and 
mod_python, two approaches with which I am familiar, as compared with 
good 'ole vanilla CGI.

Both of these systems have the advantage that once your web 
functionality is stable (i.e. the programs aren't changing each time you 
want the run) you avoid the overhead of reloading both the interpreter 
and the source code of your page generators (CGI scripts) for each page.

mod_python effectively works by integrating the interpreter into Apache 
in such a way that each directory can, if necessary, have a separate 
interpreter instance (to avoid namespace clashes between different 
applications). Modules are loaded on-demand, and stay resident in the 
Apache process unless changed. Sometimes there are problems if an 
indirectly-imported module changes, since mod_python only checks those 
it imports itself.

The intergration is very tight, and you can write Apache handlers of all 
kinds in Python. I have experimented myself with writing request 
handlers, with results briefly reported at PyCON this year. It's a good 
general-purpose approach for uni-processor solutions.

Xitami is slightly different: the server is deliberately written as a 
lightweight asynchronous request handler which is capable of queueing 
requests until a service routine becomes available. The LRWP linkage 
isn't actually as complicated as it might seem, and the only major 
difference is that a service process must register with the server to 
handle a class of URLs before it receives requests.

This gives you two immediate benefits: firstly, since network sockets 
are used to communicate between the web server and the service process, 
the web server can act as a conduit to external functionality very 
easily - it's trivial to build a remote LRWP, since the only difference 
between a local and a remote LRWP is the fact that the remote one will 
use an external IP address for the web server rather than "localhost". 
Second, since the web server is perfectly happy to accept multiple 
registrations for a given class of URLs, and since each registration can 
come from a different host, the asynchronous nature of the Xitami system 
allows you to achieve potentially great scalability.

I described this approach in "Python Web Programming", since it seemed 
to me to offer the easiest way to build web-based Python applications 
which could potentially scale to hundreds of processors. The really nice 
part is that you can add more LRWPs to any URL class that needs more 
power, dynamically and without trauma.

I even built a system on Windows that had a URL to start up LRWPs on 
demand, and to shut them down, under client control. It's very flexible.

Clearly anything that has performance benefits over CGI is likely to be 
a little more difficult to get running but believe me, the extra effort 
isn't that great when you consider the rewards.

HTH

regards
  Steve



From pinard at iro.umontreal.ca  Thu Apr 15 17:32:30 2004
From: pinard at iro.umontreal.ca (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Fran=E7ois?= Pinard)
Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2004 17:32:30 -0400
Subject: CamelCase versus wide_names (Prothon)
In-Reply-To: <UHxfc.9323$dZ1.3740@fed1read04>
References: <UHxfc.9323$dZ1.3740@fed1read04>
Message-ID: <20040415213230.GA26163@alcyon.progiciels-bpi.ca>

[Mark Hahn]

> 1) CamelCase is more elegant, modern, more readable, and more efficient in
> character usage.

> 2) Wide_names is cleaner, more readable, compatible with C, which is the
> standard module language for Python and Prothon.  Wide_names is also the
> Python standard.

Both cannot be "more readable" simultaneously! :-)

For Python, I think legibility should be the premium concern.  I wish
Prothon shares that priority.

Efficiency on character usage may not be that much: there was once an
habit of removing all vowels, and a few consonants at random, from
variable names, to spare typing; this resulted in poor legibility and
harder maintenance.  Compatibility with C should not be a concern
either.  Whatever a capital or an underscore causes the highest strain
on the typist may not be more important than legibility either: editors
rather than languages should address editing difficulties.

The problem here is that legibility is not defined the same way by all
people.  People develop habits, find more legible what they saw a lot,
and are likely to fight to protect what they learn to find good.  (This
is like smoking: children gag the first time they try it, then they get
used to it, but the habit does not make smoking a good thing, even if
they much like it.)  My own opinion is that identifiers are better clean
than elegant, because legibility lies on the clean side.  This is why I
prefer wide_names.  But maybe wide_names are my drug and I'm wrong.  I
do know that others prefer CamelCase.  I do not fully understand their
preference, they do not really understand mine! :-)

Given full power and choice, what I would prefer is that identifiers be
allowed to contain spaces -- would they have to be unbreakable spaces.
That would be the most legible avenue, especially given that my editors
and enscripters would then bold or colour Python/Prothon keywords, making
it clear the extent of each identifier.  Take this very message, save
it in two files, then edit the first copy to replace all spaces within
a sentence with underlines, and edit the second copy to replace all
spaces within a sentence with the empty string, but capitalising the
next character.  My guess, which some might challenge, is that there
will almost be a concensus that the first copy is easier to decipher.

Legibility should be the overwhelming concern.

-- 
Fran?ois Pinard   http://www.iro.umontreal.ca/~pinard



From drs at remove-to-send-mail-ecpsoftware.com  Sun Apr 11 12:55:15 2004
From: drs at remove-to-send-mail-ecpsoftware.com (drs)
Date: Sun, 11 Apr 2004 16:55:15 GMT
Subject: Best IDE?
References: <c5bg1k$25vq$1@news.wplus.net>
Message-ID: <TLeec.27616$M3.21020@twister.nyroc.rr.com>


"Stevie_mac" <no.email at please.com> wrote in message
news:c5bg1k$25vq$1 at news.wplus.net...

> (is there a VS.NET addin?)

http://www.activestate.com/Products/Visual_Python/





From mwh at python.net  Wed Apr  7 14:22:02 2004
From: mwh at python.net (Michael Hudson)
Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2004 18:22:02 GMT
Subject: getting from code object to class/function
References: <mailman.425.1081355834.20120.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <m365cbtzqu.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk>

Skip Montanaro <skip at pobox.com> writes:

> The trace module allows you to print all functions which were called at
> least once during a program's run.  I just checked in a change to also track
> caller/callee relationships and display then at program exit.
> 
> Both types of output suffer from the fact that all the trace function gets
> is the current frame.  From there it can find the code object and then the
> source filename and function name.  There is, however, no direct way back
> from the code object to (for example) the class and method which "own" that
> object.  I didn't see anything obvious in the inspect module that would
> allow me to worm around this problem.

gc.get_referrers?

It's impossible in general, of course, because you can using the 'new'
module construct multiple functions that refer to the same code
object.

Cheers,
mwh

-- 
[1] If you're lost in the woods, just bury some fibre in the ground
    carrying data. Fairly soon a JCB will be along to cut it for you
    - follow the JCB back to civilsation/hitch a lift.
                                               -- Simon Burr, cam.misc


From perky at i18n.org  Sun Apr  4 01:41:35 2004
From: perky at i18n.org (Hye-Shik Chang)
Date: Sun, 4 Apr 2004 15:41:35 +0900
Subject: Python is faster than C
In-Reply-To: <5d83790c.0404032144.482787bd@posting.google.com>
References: <406F0907.96F37EA1@tunes.org>
	<5d83790c.0404032144.482787bd@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <20040404064135.GA59716@i18n.org>

On Sat, Apr 03, 2004 at 09:44:38PM -0800, Raymond Hettinger wrote:
> [Armin Rigo] 
> > >>> enumerate([6,7,8,9])         # uh ?
> > <enumerate object at 0x401a102c>
> 
> This got me thinking about how much I would like to see the contents
> of an iterator at the interactive prompt.
> 
> I wonder if the read-eval-print loop could be trained to make a better
> display:
[snip]
> 
> # intended result
> >>> enumerate('abcdefgh')
> <enumerate object at 0x401a102c:  (0, 'a') (1, 'b') (2, 'c') ...>
> >>> list(_)
> [(0, 'a'), (1, 'b'), (2, 'c'), (3, 'd'), (4, 'e'), (5, 'f'), (6, 'g'),
> (7, 'h'), (8, 'i'), (9, 'j'), (10, 'k'), (11, 'l'), (12, 'm'), (13,
> 'n')]
> 

Yeah!  I love this idea.  It may make not only enumerate() but also
reverse() and itertools internal objects more interactive-friendly.


Hye-Shik



From ykingma at accessforall.nl  Mon Apr 19 13:17:02 2004
From: ykingma at accessforall.nl (Ype Kingma)
Date: Mon, 19 Apr 2004 19:17:02 +0200
Subject: equivalent to Java's toString()?
References: <mailman.762.1082385711.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<1087t9hc5vl833b@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <4084098e$0$562$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>

Michael Geary wrote:

> Gabriel Cooper wrote:
>> What is the python equivalent to java's toString()?
>>
>> When debugging I want to be able to basically be able to do this:
>>
>>     print MyObjectInstance
>>
>> or
>>     print str(MyObjectInstance)
>>
>> and have it print out formatted output along the lines of:
>>
>>     Object properties: Red=0 Yellow=0 Blue=255
> 
> Define a __str__ method in your class. It works just like toString() in
Java
> and JavaScript:
> 
>>>> class MyTest( object ):
> ...     def __str__( self ):
> ...         return 'My Test!'
> ...
>>>> test = MyTest()
>>>> print test
> My Test!
>>>>
> 
> Also see __repr__ for a related method.
> 
> -Mike

Closing the circle, just for info, from the java docs of jython:

http://www.jython.org/docs/javadoc/org/python/core/PyObject.html#__str__()

"""Equivalent to the standard Python __str__ method. This method should not
typically need to be overridden. The easiest way to configure the string
representation of a PyObject is to override the standard Java toString
method."""

Regards,
Ype





From nuffsaid at phreaker.net  Mon Apr 26 19:23:57 2004
From: nuffsaid at phreaker.net (Nuff Said)
Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2004 01:23:57 +0200
Subject: locale.CODESET / different in python shell and scripts
Message-ID: <pan.2004.04.26.23.23.56.718739@phreaker.net>

When I type the following code in the interactive python shell,
I get 'UTF-8'; but if I put the code into a Python script and
run the script - in the same terminal on my Linux box in which
I opened the python shell before -, I get 'ANSI_X3.4-1968'.

How does that come?

Thanks in advance for your answers! Nuff.


The Code:

  import locale
  print locale.nl_langinfo(locale.CODESET)



From tony at deletethis.thoward.plus.net  Tue Apr 20 11:32:28 2004
From: tony at deletethis.thoward.plus.net (Tony of Judicious)
Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 16:32:28 +0100
Subject: Rekall configure probs
Message-ID: <kobhc.34911$Y%6.4526040@wards.force9.net>

Not sure if this is right ng but i'm trying to install Rekall on Suse 9 prof

During ./configure i get the msg:

checking for X... configure: error: Can't find X includes. Please check your
installation and add the correct paths!

Any idea what it is looking for?


From theller at python.net  Wed Apr 14 07:57:05 2004
From: theller at python.net (Thomas Heller)
Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2004 13:57:05 +0200
Subject: Unable to create com object - need help
References: <2D89F6C4A80FA547BF5D5B8FDDD04523060C60@exchange.adrembi.com>
Message-ID: <wu4iu60e.fsf@python.net>

"Roman Yakovenko" <roman.yakovenko at actimize.com> writes:

> 	Hi. I need some help. 
> Here is my situation. It is a little bit difficult to explain and/or understand.
> I'd like to use msdia71.dll. This dll gives you access to program database files
> created during a build. I register this dll. This is pure com dll. 
> This dll contains 3 top classes. I'd like to create one of them - DiaSource. 
> This class implements IDiaDataSource interface. This fact I can see in dia2.idl. 
>
>  importlib("stdole2.tlb");
>     [
>         uuid(e60afbee-502d-46ae-858f-8272a09bd707),
>         helpstring("DiaSource Class")
>     ]
>     coclass DiaSource
>     {
>         [default] interface IDiaDataSource;
>     };
>
> after using makepy I get 
>
> class DiaSource(CoClassBaseClass): # A CoClass
> 	# DiaSource Class
> 	CLSID = IID('{E60AFBEE-502D-46AE-858F-8272A09BD707}')
> 	coclass_sources = [
> 	]
> 	coclass_interfaces = [
> 	]
> If I understand right DiaSource doesn't implements IDiaDataSource interface at all. 
> May be this is a bug, may be I don't understand something. Clarifying this point will be great.

I think this has to do with the fact that with pywin32 you cannot access
arbitrary com interfaces - only interfaces that either have been wrapped
in pythoncom.dll or that derive from IDispatch.  The DIA interfaces all
derive from IUnknown, so it seems you cannot call them.

There is ongoing work in pywin32 named 'universal' or something like
that, but I don't know how far it is.

Another possibility is to use ctypes com layer, it has a tool somewhat
similar to makepy - it's called readtlb.py, and creates python wrappers
for com interfaces.  ctypes.com has some samples demonstrating all this.

HTH,

Thomas




From peter at engcorp.com  Fri Apr 23 18:01:36 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2004 18:01:36 -0400
Subject: Richards bench benchmark
In-Reply-To: <6748553f.0404211342.7591cd8e@posting.google.com>
References: <6748553f.0403291446.27fb7b93@posting.google.com>
	<jLCdnW28-PB6cfXdRVn-iQ@powergate.ca>
	<6748553f.0403300836.744e3e22@posting.google.com>
	<Etqdnd8EeYGjM_TdRVn-jA@powergate.ca>
	<6748553f.0403302317.4595844@posting.google.com>
	<RuKdnc0lmsZFTfHdRVn-ug@powergate.ca>
	<6748553f.0404060802.6e0d708c@posting.google.com>
	<nrKdnaEeNcXAYu_dRVn-vw@powergate.ca>
	<6748553f.0404211342.7591cd8e@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <40899240.7020508@engcorp.com>

Duncan Lissett wrote:

> Peter Hansen <peter at engcorp.com> wrote in message news:<nrKdnaEeNcXAYu_dRVn-vw at powergate.ca>...
> 
> Done some interpreter implementations, so Python won't look out of place ;-)
> 
> http://www.lissett.com/ben/bench1.htm

Okay, first working version is available by going to 
http://www.engcorp.com/main/projects/PyBench .

That's about all the time I can spare on this for now.
Feel free to download, hack, improve, or ignore.

If nothing else, it would be of some interest to have
someone run one of the other versions on a common machine
and post the results.  The above page is a wiki, so feel
free to add results there, expand the page, whatever...

-Peter


From mark at prothon.org  Tue Apr 20 02:22:10 2004
From: mark at prothon.org (Mark Hahn)
Date: Mon, 19 Apr 2004 23:22:10 -0700
Subject: Dollar sign ($) on foriegn keyboards? (prothon)
Message-ID: <mk3hc.13895$dZ1.10823@fed1read04>

We are considering switching to the dollar sign ($) for self, instead of the
period ( . ) we are using now in Prothon.  Ruby uses the at-sign (@) for
self, but our new usage of self also includes replacing the period for some
attribute references, as in obj$func() versus obj.func(), and too many
programs treat that as an email address and screw it up.  Also the S in the
symbol $ reminds one of the S in $elf.

Can people from outside the U.S. tell me if typing the dollar sign often
would be a problem in writing code?  Is it available and somewhat easy to
type on international keyboards?




From roy at panix.com  Thu Apr 15 10:18:03 2004
From: roy at panix.com (Roy Smith)
Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2004 10:18:03 -0400
Subject: warnings
References: <mailman.648.1082034837.20120.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <roy-6DD319.10180315042004@reader2.panix.com>

Slightly off-topic, but what's the long-term future of the warnings 
module?  It seems the new logging module pretty much subsumes the 
functionality of warning.


From tzot at sil-tec.gr  Fri Apr  2 09:24:06 2004
From: tzot at sil-tec.gr (Christos TZOTZIOY Georgiou)
Date: Fri, 02 Apr 2004 17:24:06 +0300
Subject: An attempt at guessing the encoding of a (non-unicode) string
Message-ID: <c1sq60t7af0lgs1ovilg6ds220dkc0inpd@4ax.com>

This is a subject that comes up fairly often.  Last night, I had the
following idea, for which I would like feedback from you.

This could be implemented as a function in codecs.py (let's call it
"wild_guess"), that is based on some pre-calculated data.  These
pre-calculated data would be produced as follows:

1. Create a dictionary (key: encoding, value: set of valid bytes for the
encoding)

1a. the sets can be constructed by trial and error:

def valid_bytes(encoding):
    result= set()
    for byte in xrange(256):
        char= chr(byte)
        try:
            char.decode(encoding)
        except UnicodeDecodeError:
            pass
        else:
            result.add(char)
    return result

2. for every 8-bit encoding, some "representative" text is given (the
longer, the better)

2a. the following function is a quick generator of all two-char
sequences from its string argument.  can be used both for the production
of the pre-calculated data and for the analysis of a given string in the
'wild_guess' function.

def str_window(text):
    return itertools.imap(
        text.__getslice__, xrange(0, len(s)-1), xrange(2, len(s)+1)
    )

So for every encoding and 'representative' text, a bag of two-char
sequences and their frequencies is calculated. {frequencies[encoding] =
dict(key: two-chars, value: count)}

2b. do a lengthy comparison of the bags in order to find the most common
two-char sequences that, as a set, can be considered unique for the
specific encoding.

2c. For every encoding, keep only a set of the (chosen in step 2b)
two-char sequences that were judged as 'representative'.  Store these
calculated sets plus those from step 1a as python code in a helper
module to be imported from codecs.py for the wild_guess function
(reproduce the helper module every time some 'representative' text is
added or modified).

3. write the wild_guess function

3a.  the function 'wild_guess' would first construct a set from its
argument:

sample_set= set(argument)

and by set operations against the sets from step 1a, we can exclude
codecs where the sample set is not a subset of the encoding valid set.
I don't expect that this step would exclude many encodings, but I think
it should not be skipped.

3b. pass the argument through the str_window function, and construct a
set of all two-char sequencies

3c. from all sets from step 2c, find the one whose intersection with set
from 3b is longest as a ratio of len(intersection)/len(encoding_set),
and suggest the relevant encoding.

What do you think?  I can't test whether that would work unless I have
'representative' texts for various encodings.  Please feel free to help
or bash :)

PS I know how generic 'representative' is, and how hard it is to qualify
some text as such, therefore the quotes.  That is why I said 'the
longer, the better'.
-- 
TZOTZIOY, I speak England very best,
Ils sont fous ces Redmontains! --Harddix


From bjg at network-theory.co.uk  Mon Apr 19 12:12:20 2004
From: bjg at network-theory.co.uk (Brian Gough)
Date: 19 Apr 2004 17:12:20 +0100
Subject: Problems using modulo
References: <d698d3e7.0404190731.3dcb89d2@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <87hdvgx7yz.fsf@network-theory.co.uk>

griffph at aol.com (Griff) writes:

> Results:
> 5.9 mod 2.0 = 1.9
> 6.0 mod 2.0 = 2.0 !!!!!!
> 6.1 mod 2.0 = 0.1
> 
> I don't know much about how Python does its floating point, but it
> seems like a bug to me ?

This is a common "feature" of floating-point arithmetic.  0.1 does not
have an exact machine representation in binary, so the numbers
displayed are not exact (e.g. 6.0 is actually 5.9999999... with a
difference O(10^-15)).  There is an appendix in the Python tutorial
which discusses this, with more examples.

> What is the best workaround so that I can get my code working as
> desired ?
> (ie I just want to tell whether my time "t" is an exact multiple of
> the time interval, 2.0 seconds in this case).

For exact arithmetic, work with integers (e.g. in this case multiply
everything 10) or compute the difference from zero in the modulus, d,

  s = t % interval
  d = min (s, interval-s)

and compare it with a small tolerance, e.g. 1e-10 or something
appropriate to your problem. HTH.

-- 
Brian Gough

Network Theory Ltd,
Publishing Python Manuals --- http://www.network-theory.co.uk/


From loic at fejoz.net  Fri Apr 16 03:31:50 2004
From: loic at fejoz.net (Yermat)
Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2004 09:31:50 +0200
Subject: Aspect Programming Module
In-Reply-To: <slrnc7shnn.vp.alf@largo.fayauffre.org>
References: <84fc4588.0404140106.3fa0c55@posting.google.com>
	<slrnc7q1ss.1aa.alf@largo.fayauffre.org>
	<cb035744.0404141130.170f51c4@posting.google.com>
	<8ef9bea6.0404142155.90b41ef@posting.google.com>
	<407E394B.2050709@mxm.dk> <slrnc7shnn.vp.alf@largo.fayauffre.org>
Message-ID: <c5o27l$298$1@arcturus.ciril.fr>

Alexandre Fayolle wrote:
> Le 15-04-2004, Max M <maxm at mxm.dk> a ?crit :
> 
>>Hung Jung Lu wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Python does not even have codeblocks. So how can you say AOP is not
>>>needed for Python programmers?
>>
>>I am probably rather dense, but I have not seen aspect oriented examples 
>>  that could not have been done with simple mixins.
> 
> 
> Hi Max,
> 
> I'm probably rather dense too :-) 
> How do you implement the logging aspect with a simple mixin?
> 
> (the logging aspect prints a statement before and after each method call
> of a class instance)
> 

Does it help ?

class LoggerAOP(object):
     def __init__(self, f, name):
         self.f = f
         self.name = name

     def __call__(self, *args, **keywords):
         if callable(self.f):
             print "calling %s" % self.name
             result = self.f(*args, **keywords)
             print "end of call %s" % self.name
             return result
         raise TypeError, "%s not callable" % self.name

class MyClass(object):
     def __init__(self, name):
         self.name = name

     def foo(self, a):
         return "%s say hello to %s" % (self.name, a)

m = MyClass("Yermat")
print 'm.name:', m.name
print 'm.foo:', m.foo("world")

m.foo = LoggerAOP(m.foo, 'foo')

print 'm.name:', m.name
print 'm.foo:', m.foo("world")

-- 
Yermat



From grante at visi.com  Fri Apr  9 10:08:25 2004
From: grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards)
Date: 09 Apr 2004 14:08:25 GMT
Subject: surface fitting library for Python?
References: <40748902$0$17253$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
	<qnkfzbe1bee.fsf@arbutus.physics.mcmaster.ca>
Message-ID: <4076ae59$0$17266$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>

On 2004-04-08, David M. Cooke <cookedm+news at physics.mcmaster.ca> wrote:

>> I'm looking for a surface fitting library for Python. 
>>
>> Something like the least-squares module in scientific python,
>> except I want to fit a surface (z = f(x,y)) instead of a curve
>> (y = f(x)).
>
> You mean Konrad Hinsen's ScientificPython?

That's the one.

> Scientific.Functions.LeastSquares.leastSquaresFit should still
> work for you. You just need to make your data a list of tuples
> of (x,y) and z.
>
> Example:

[...]

Well, that's entirely too easy. For some reason I convinced
myself that wouldn't work (though I hadn't tried it).

> If your model isn't amiable to having derivatives taken,

That I don't know yet.  We haven't chosen a model, since we're
still working on gather the data.

> you might check out the wrapping by Robert Kern of ODRPACK:
> http://starship.python.net/crew/kernr/Projects.html I've used
> this successfully.

I will.  Thanks!

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow!  YOW!! Now I
                                  at               understand advanced
                               visi.com            MICROBIOLOGY and th' new
                                                   TAX REFORM laws!!


From bokr at oz.net  Mon Apr 12 17:30:27 2004
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 12 Apr 2004 21:30:27 GMT
Subject: I am puzled about numbers
References: <107lvs6mree8pee@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <c5f1pj$ddb$0@216.39.172.122>

On Mon, 12 Apr 2004 13:43:42 -0700, "A Evans" <ae> wrote:

>Hello I came across an interesting loop in math today
>To me its interesting anyway I don't know if it will interest you
>
>var = 999 % 333
>
>print var
>>>> 0
>
>var = 9999 % 333
>print var
>>>> 9
>
>var = 99999 % 333
>print var
>>>> 99
>
>var = 999999 % 333
>print var
>>>> 0
>
>
>var = 9999999 % 333
>print var
>>>> 9
>
>
>var = 99999999 % 333
>print var
>>>> 99
>
>
>var = 999999999 % 333
>print var
>>>> 0
>
>and so on
>
>I guess that just goes to show nine is a universal number
>or am I just completely insane and everyone knows this already
>
>
 >>> for digit in '97':
 ...     for digits in xrange(1,10):
 ...         num = eval(digit*digits)
 ...         mod = eval(digit*3)
 ...         var = num % mod
 ...         print '%s: %s %% %s => %s' % (digits, num, mod, var)
 ...
 1: 9 % 999 => 9
 2: 99 % 999 => 99
 3: 999 % 999 => 0
 4: 9999 % 999 => 9
 5: 99999 % 999 => 99
 6: 999999 % 999 => 0
 7: 9999999 % 999 => 9
 8: 99999999 % 999 => 99
 9: 999999999 % 999 => 0
 1: 7 % 777 => 7
 2: 77 % 777 => 77
 3: 777 % 777 => 0
 4: 7777 % 777 => 7
 5: 77777 % 777 => 77
 6: 777777 % 777 => 0
 7: 7777777 % 777 => 7
 8: 77777777 % 777 => 77
 9: 777777777 % 777 => 0

Careful not to jump to conclusions ;-)

Regards,
Bengt Richter


From dmq at gain.com  Fri Apr  9 20:35:43 2004
From: dmq at gain.com (David MacQuigg)
Date: Fri, 09 Apr 2004 17:35:43 -0700
Subject: Intro Chapter on OOP using Prothon
Message-ID: <97ee70p2g40a060sef7nlg1lerf16rtpdi@4ax.com>

I've been working with the folks at www.prothon.org trying to come up
with a variation on Prothon that will preserve the ability to
automatically translate Python to Prothon, while not limiting their
wonderful creativity in developing all kinds of useful extensions to
Python.  My motiviation is having a language I can teach to electronic
design engineers in two days.  Currently that is Python without
classes.  I'm intriqued by the idea of adding OOP with only a few more
hours of instruction.

I've written a draft of a chapter as a replacement for the OOP
chapters in Learning Python, 2nd ed. See
ece.arizona.edu/~edatools/Prothon/Prototypes.doc (or .htm if you can't
read teh MS Word .doc format).  This chapter makes some assumptions
about Prothon syntax that are not consistent with the current
implementation, but I felt it better to keep things simple and
self-consistent for now, and add the complexities later when the
language is stable.

Comments on the chapter are welcome.  I am also interested in any
comments on the question -- Can we do this with Python?  Prothon is a
real breakthrough in simplification (elimination?) of classes.  If
"prototypes" are done right, we can enjoy the new simpler style
without having to re-write all our old programs or give up anything we
now have in Python.

-- Dave



From arigo at tunes.org  Sat Apr  3 16:04:35 2004
From: arigo at tunes.org (Armin Rigo)
Date: Sat, 3 Apr 2004 21:04:35 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: popen2 trouble
References: <c4k0i1$2is7im$1@ID-111250.news.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <406F2905.C685715F@tunes.org>

Hello Diez,

"Diez B. Roggisch" wrote:
> When performing this in my console window, everything works as expected. I
> can paste several blocks of text that look like the above one, and the
> crm114 constantly outputs classification results.

Try using the 'bufsize' optional argument in the call to popen2.  Set it
to 0 to disable all buffering, if you are writing in large chunks (e.g.
calling inn.write(bigstring)).


Armin


From shalabh at cafepy.com  Sun Apr 25 13:51:37 2004
From: shalabh at cafepy.com (Shalabh Chaturvedi)
Date: Sun, 25 Apr 2004 10:51:37 -0700
Subject: List operator overloading snag
In-Reply-To: <8TCdnQn1OKieaRbdRWPC-w@speakeasy.net>
References: <8TCdnQn1OKieaRbdRWPC-w@speakeasy.net>
Message-ID: <c6gtlk$3si$1@sea.gmane.org>

Steven Brent wrote:
> Dear Group:
> 
> I am a little perplexed by a basic example from the O'Reilly book, 2nd ed.,
> which demonstrates overloading some builtin list operators by embedding
> lists in a wrapper class.
> 
> Below is a snippet which shows the wrapper class and the overloaded
> operator definition within (in this case, '__or__')
> 
  <code for class Set with __or__() method snipped>
> 
> 
> The problem is that I can't seem to get my wrapped lists to use the
> overloaded versions of the operators without calling the customize
> instance method directly, as shown below:
> 
>>>>import setwrapper; from setwrapper import *
> 
> 
>>>>S1 = Set(['s','p','a','m'])
>>>>S2 = Set(['s','c','a','t'])
> 
> 
>>>>print S1 or S2
> 
> Set: ['s', 'p', 'a', 'm'] # custom __repr__ used but still default
>                           # __or__ behavior, returns first true operand
> 
> 
>>>>print S1.__or__(S2)
> 
> using Set.__or__
> Set: ['s', 'p', 'a', 'm', 'c', 't'] # now all the custom behaviors
> 
> This happens regardless of whether the module is imported into IDLE, or run
> standalone. Obviously I'm missing something very basic namespace issue, and
> I don't want to gloss over any bumps in my learning curve.
> 
> Many thanks.
> 

Try S1 | S2. The '|' operator (commonly known as the bitwise 'or' 
operator for integers) is what gets customized. You cannot change the 
meaning of the Python boolean 'or' which returns the left side value if 
it is true, else it returns the right side value. So what you're seeing 
is normal behavior, you always get the left side value since it's truth 
value is true. See also __nonzero__() in the Python docs.

Btw, if you really want sets, you can use builtin module sets (new in 2.3).

--
Shalabh




From Bill.Scherer at VerizonWireless.com  Thu Apr  1 07:08:39 2004
From: Bill.Scherer at VerizonWireless.com (Bill Scherer)
Date: Thu, 01 Apr 2004 07:08:39 -0500
Subject: Unsung Modules, rev 3
Message-ID: <406C0647.30307@VerizonWireless.com>


Soory I missed the anniversary by a few months, but here I am again 
taking up the unsung modules torch.  For a review see:

http://www.google.com/groups?as_q=unsung%20modules&safe=images&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&as_ugroup=comp.lang.python&lr=&hl=en

Spread is still unsung, I think. And there has been a fair bit of 
bickering about threads latey, so maybe Queue needs to be sung about more.

For this year's installment, I nominate VPython, aka visual. No, I'm not 
related (AFAIK!) to it's creator David Scherer.  What amazes me most 
about it is this: this 3D graphical environment is easier to use than 
most, if not all, of the 2D gui toolkits. And that's not an April Fool's 
joke!

So, what's your favorite unsung module today?


-- Bill Scherer

When Python's all you've got,
Every problem looks like a mouse.







From mark at prothon.org  Thu Apr 15 19:30:38 2004
From: mark at prothon.org (Mark Hahn)
Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2004 16:30:38 -0700
Subject: CamelCase versus wide_names (Prothon)
References: <UHxfc.9323$dZ1.3740@fed1read04>
	<slrnc7tpc4.9b5.joe@gate.notcharles.ca>
Message-ID: <%VEfc.9387$dZ1.177@fed1read04>

Joe Mason wrote:

> Wasn't one of the Prothon design goals "when in doubt, follow Python"?

Yes, and that was why I was voting for wide_names.  Buit the logic was to
make conversion from Python to Prothon easy and to make ex-Pythoners (like
myself) happy.  That logic falls apart if it is easy to convert names and
Pythoners want camelCase.  After posting this question and seeing that the
majority want camelCase, I switched my vote (and have already switched
Prothon's var names; it only took 10 minutes to switch).




From sc0rp at hot.pl  Fri Apr 30 22:57:52 2004
From: sc0rp at hot.pl (Jacek Trzmiel)
Date: Sat, 01 May 2004 04:57:52 +0200
Subject: Urllib2/threading errors under Cygwin
Message-ID: <40931230.84EECF31@hot.pl>


Hi,

I have a problem with using urllib2 with threading module under Cygwin.

$ cygcheck -cd cygwin python
Cygwin Package Information
Package              Version        
cygwin               1.5.5-1        
python               2.3.2-1 

Here is minimal app where I can reproduce errors:

--- MtUrllib2Test.py -------------------------------------------------
#!/usr/bin/env python

import urllib2
import threading
import sys
import time


def FetchPage():
#    time.sleep(3)
#    return
    opener = urllib2.build_opener()
    urlFile = opener.open( 'http://google.com/' )
    pageData = urlFile.read()


def IncCounterAndPrint( count=[0] ):
    count[0] += 1
    print count[0]
#    sys.stdout.flush()


def Main():
    noOfThreads = 1
    for unused in range(noOfThreads):
        thread = threading.Thread( target=FetchPage, args=() )
        thread.start()
#        time.sleep(0.2)
        IncCounterAndPrint()

    while(threading.activeCount()>1):
        IncCounterAndPrint()
        time.sleep(0.5)
    IncCounterAndPrint()


if __name__ == "__main__":
    Main()
--- MtUrllib2Test.py -------------------------------------------------

0. Simple case.  Here everything looks ok:

$ python MtUrllib2Test.py
1
2
3
4
5


1. First error.

$ python MtUrllib2Test.py | tee out.txt 
3
4
5

Leading prints has been eaten somewhere.  Uncommenting disabled code in
ANY of the functions does make output correct, but none of the solutions
looks good for me:

a) IncCounterAndPrint() - sys.stdout.flush()
As I understand if stdout is not console then output gets buffered (i.e.
it's not flushed automatically).  Adding a flush call does make output
good, but this looks like a kludge for me, not a real fix.  I am writing
to stdout from only one thread, so everything should be fine without
calling flush, shouldn't it?

b) Main() - time.sleep(0.2)
Adding a little sleep after starting thread does make output correct
too.  For me it looks like race condition either in urllib2 or in
cygwin.  Or am I completely off here?

c) FetchPage() - time.sleep(3), return
Disabling calls to urllib2 does make problem go away, too.


2. Second error.

If I increase number of threads:
   noOfThreads = 20
and run this prog (you may need to run it several times, or rise number
of threads more to reproduce), then sometimes it does fail this way :

$ python MtUrllib2Test.py | tee out.txt 
      4 [win] python 1744 Winmain: Cannot register window class
C:\cygwin\bin\python2.3.exe: *** WFSO failed, Win32 error 6

or hangs this way:

$ python MtUrllib2Test.py | tee out.txt 
    243 [win] python 1696 Winmain: Cannot register window class
    520 [win] python 1696 Winmain: Cannot register window class



Can anyone help me on those two?

Best regards,
Jacek.



From moosebumps at moosebumps.com  Sat Apr 17 17:18:05 2004
From: moosebumps at moosebumps.com (Moosebumps)
Date: Sat, 17 Apr 2004 21:18:05 GMT
Subject: python module for interactive web charts
Message-ID: <hahgc.23618$zk1.8252@newssvr27.news.prodigy.com>

Is there anything that is made to generate web pages which have charts
similar to the yahoo finance stock charts?  Not looking to graph stocks
specifically, but anything.  I like how you can zoom on each axis, and maybe
click to see numerical values and such.

If there isn't anything in Python, what do people typically use for that
kind of stuff, or is it all hand-rolled?

thanks,
MB




From thorsten at thorstenkampe.de  Wed Apr 28 18:55:29 2004
From: thorsten at thorstenkampe.de (Thorsten Kampe)
Date: Thu, 29 Apr 2004 00:55:29 +0200
Subject: maximum element?
References: <c284v2$ibn$1@bagan.srce.hr>
Message-ID: <2sf86pbtw35m$.dlg@thorstenkampe.de>

Catching up...

* Ivan Voras (2004-03-04 22:52 +0100)
> What is the 'most pythonic' way of searching the largest element in a 
> list/tuple?
> 
> My 'standard' idea is:
> 
> max = list[0]   # or -infinity, or whatever...
> for i in list:
>      if i > max:
>          max = i
> 
> While this is ok, I somehow 'feel' there could be a more concise 
> solution... :)

max(seq)

In a real world example you wouldn't be interested in "the" maximum
but in the extrema/maxima according to function f (in your case the
identity f(x)=x), which could be more than just one item.

Thorsten


From wweston at att.net  Fri Apr 16 13:23:59 2004
From: wweston at att.net (wes weston)
Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2004 17:23:59 GMT
Subject: Learning about dictionaries
In-Reply-To: <b4a8ffb6.0404160850.42c0ccf@posting.google.com>
References: <b4a8ffb6.0404160850.42c0ccf@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <PEUfc.35687$K_.865812@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>

Thomas Philips wrote:
> I'm teaching myself python and in the course of playing around with
> dictionaries, I tried to create the following trivial dictionary
> 
> {1:'one', 2:'two'}
> 
> So I entered
> 
>>>>dict(1='one',2='two')
> 
> SyntaxError: keyword can't be an expression
> 
> As this did not work, I tried
> 
>>>>dict(1=one,2=two)
> 
> SyntaxError: keyword can't be an expression
> 
> and
> 
>>>>dict('1'='one','2'='two')
> 
> SyntaxError: keyword can't be an expression
> 
> as well as
> 
>>>>dict('1'=one,'2'=two)
> 
> SyntaxError: keyword can't be an expression
> 
> Out of curiosity, I tried
> 
>>>>dict(one=1,two=2)
> 
> {'two': 2, 'one': 1}
> 
> Why does this last attempt work, and more importantly, why did my four
> earlier attempts fail? I might add that I have no trouble getting what
> I want with
> 
>>>>dict(zip((1,2),('one','two')))
> 
> {1: 'one', 2: 'two'}
> or
> 
>>>>dict(((1,'one'),(2,'two')))
> 
> {1: 'one', 2: 'two'}
> 
> Sincerely
> 
> Thomas Philips

 >>> d={1:'one',2:'two'}
 >>> d
{1: 'one', 2: 'two'}
 >>> dd=dict(d)
 >>> dd
{1: 'one', 2: 'two'}




From wweston at att.net  Mon Apr 26 12:34:00 2004
From: wweston at att.net (wes weston)
Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2004 16:34:00 GMT
Subject: askstring => grab failes
Message-ID: <YRajc.24437$_o3.804189@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>

Guys/Gals,
    Does anyone know why a call to tkSimpleDialog.askstring
would result in a grab fail error. The call is from a toplevel
window. The error happens about two thirds of the time! It
doesn't happen at all in other apps. Is it a build issue?

Redhat 9.0
Python 2.3.3

Thanks,
wes



From jacek.generowicz at cern.ch  Fri Apr  2 03:31:35 2004
From: jacek.generowicz at cern.ch (Jacek Generowicz)
Date: 02 Apr 2004 10:31:35 +0200
Subject: [OT] Top posting is a PITA
References: <569c605ld1cj8fc1emolk08ete0s1prls1@4ax.com>
	<v0r9c.38988$cx5.22021@fed1read04>
	<106di86neu1qh4d@news.supernews.com>
	<AHF9c.49048$cx5.33872@fed1read04> <c4akqh$gml$1@panix2.panix.com>
	<Sz8ac.68272$cx5.62681@fed1read04>
	<mailman.115.1080652873.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<4069a001$0$4237$afc38c87@news.easynet.co.uk>
	<4069e9d9$0$8915$636a15ce@news.free.fr>
	<406a98ee$0$290$edfadb0f@dread12.news.tele.dk>
	<c4e6jv$10te$1@biggoron.nerim.net>
	<106lh64rda8t9d4@news.supernews.com>
	<tyfn05w1358.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
	<roy-E8B6F4.08412101042004@reader1.panix.com>
Message-ID: <tyf7jwy232w.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>

Roy Smith <roy at panix.com> writes:

> What makes you think people who top post don't also put a lot of effort 
> into carefully organizing their replies and trimming the original post 
> down to the most relevant points?

Over a decade of observation of usenet and mailing lists.


From kfast at poczta.onet.pl  Wed Apr 14 10:41:37 2004
From: kfast at poczta.onet.pl (Jakub Fast)
Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2004 16:41:37 +0200
Subject: Pygame
In-Reply-To: <c5jgvh$2m5$1@orkan.itea.ntnu.no>
References: <c5jdv2$s4$1@orkan.itea.ntnu.no>	<xZydnfgqeaiK3ODdRVn-tw@powergate.ca>
	<c5jgvh$2m5$1@orkan.itea.ntnu.no>
Message-ID: <407D4DA1.1000607@poczta.onet.pl>

pygame (and sdl) are lgpl licensed and as such they are not 
commercial-friendly.

kuba



From fumanchu at amor.org  Thu Apr 22 16:48:16 2004
From: fumanchu at amor.org (Robert Brewer)
Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2004 13:48:16 -0700
Subject: bytecode JUMP_IF_* always followed by POP_TOP?
Message-ID: <DE1CF2B4FEC4A342BF62B6B2B334601E562047@opus.amorhq.net>

Playing around with bytecodes some more:

>>> def g(x):
... 	if x:
... 		y
... 	else:
... 		z
... 		
>>> dis.dis(g)
  2           0 LOAD_FAST                0 (x)
              3 JUMP_IF_FALSE            8 (to 14)
              6 POP_TOP             

  3           7 LOAD_GLOBAL              1 (y)
             10 POP_TOP             
             11 JUMP_FORWARD             5 (to 19)
        >>   14 POP_TOP             

  5          15 LOAD_GLOBAL              2 (z)
             18 POP_TOP             
        >>   19 LOAD_CONST               0 (None)
             22 RETURN_VALUE        

I notice that, whether JUMP_IF_FALSE jumps or not, the next instruction
it executes is POP_TOP (in the above, instruction numbers 6 and 14). Are
there any constructions whereby this does not happen for JUMP_IF_FALSE
and JUMP_IF_TRUE? If there aren't, is it just explicitness that kept
JUMP_IF_* from doing the POP on its own, before the jump (which would
thereby save two instructions)?


Robert Brewer
MIS
Amor Ministries
fumanchu at amor.org



From maxm at mxm.dk  Mon Apr 26 18:22:50 2004
From: maxm at mxm.dk (Max M)
Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2004 00:22:50 +0200
Subject: Is there a Python library that packs binary data into one file?
In-Reply-To: <85b54e91.0404261301.69d5c1e9@posting.google.com>
References: <85b54e91.0404261301.69d5c1e9@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <408d8ba4$0$255$edfadb0f@dread12.news.tele.dk>

Jacob H wrote:

> Hello all,
> 
> Today I began writing a utility script that takes given binary files
> and puts them all into one datafile. My idea is to be able to access
> any binary data I want by indexing the datafile, e.g.
> wanted_image_data = datafileobj[IMAGE_DATA]. The purpose is to hide
> external image files from the user in a simple game I'm writing.


What you need, is a simple pickle of a dictionary save to disk.

It's dead easy, and does exactly what you want.

import cPickle

some_dict = {'my':'name','is':'norman','bates':'!'}
file_name = 'some.dict'

f = open(file_name, 'wb')
cPickle.dump(some_dict, f, -1)
f.close()

f = open(file_name, 'rb')
c = cPickle.load(f)
f.close()

print c

 >>{'my': 'name', 'is': 'norman', 'bates': '!'}


"
3.14 pickle -- Python object serialization

The pickle module implements a fundamental, but powerful algorithm for 
serializing and de-serializing a Python object structure. ``Pickling'' 
is the process whereby a Python object hierarchy is converted into a 
byte stream, and ``unpickling'' is the inverse operation, whereby a byte 
stream is converted back into an object hierarchy. Pickling (and 
unpickling) is alternatively known as ``serialization'', 
``marshalling,''3.2 or ``flattening'', however, to avoid confusion, the 
terms used here are ``pickling'' and ``unpickling''.

This documentation describes both the pickle module and the cPickle module.
"



regards Max M


From rzantow at ntelos.net  Sat Apr  3 16:51:01 2004
From: rzantow at ntelos.net (rzed)
Date: Sat, 03 Apr 2004 21:51:01 GMT
Subject: Indent testers needed (Prothon)
References: <Unqbc.131025$cx5.57643@fed1read04>
	<noOdnTqctOE3pPPdRVn-tw@powergate.ca>
	<Oerbc.133153$cx5.81711@fed1read04>
	<du7r7v5lb5n.fsf@lehtori.cc.tut.fi>
	<KFDbc.148020$cx5.28330@fed1read04>
Message-ID: <Xns94C0ABBEF19C7rzed@63.223.5.95>

"Mark Hahn" <mark at prothon.org> wrote in
news:KFDbc.148020$cx5.28330 at fed1read04: 

> 
> "Ville Vainio" <ville at spammers.com> wrote
> 
>> Just allow both spaces and tabs, but not in the same block.
> 
> This is a good idea.  I could reset the flag for the indent type
> whenever the indentation goes to zero.  I'll pitch this on the
> Prothon list. 
> 
> "rezed" wrote ...
> 
>> I don't show visible tab marks in my editors, and I don't want
>> to have to, but if I don't, I haven't any good way to know
>> whether a piece of code contains tabs or spaces. Until I run
>> it, at least. 
> 
> I agree this is a problem, but the whole problem we are trying
> to solve, that of mixed spaces and tabs, would cause you the
> same grief, or worse, right?
> 
> 
> 

Not necessarily, at least in Python. I can paste a  function in its 
entirety and not need to know whether it uses tabs or spaces. In 
Prothon (at the moment), a mixture would give me a parse error. 

But in the more general case, yes it could cause the same grief. If 
I made wholesale cut and paste changes to a file, scattering many 
tab-indented statements in among my space-indented ones, it would 
take at least a little while to straighten it out. In any case, it 
is more an annoyance than a showstopper, I'd say. If I got into the 
habit of bringing all external code into a file and saving it, my 
editor would convert the tabs to my default and the code would be 
usable without difficulty. I can live with that little thing.

-- 
rzed



From Felix.Wiemann at gmx.net  Wed Apr  7 08:35:13 2004
From: Felix.Wiemann at gmx.net (Felix Wiemann)
Date: Wed, 07 Apr 2004 14:35:13 +0200
Subject: min() with custom compare.
References: <20040407114407.0a07d143@pistache.sara.nl>
	<m2n05oxdiv.fsf@unique.phony.fqdn>
Message-ID: <87fzbgge4e.fsf@news2.ososo.de>

Heather Coppersmith schrieb:

> Use reduce:
>
>     def absolulte_minimum_function( x, y ):
>         x, y = abs( x ), abs( y )
>         if x < y:
>             return x
>         else:
>             return y
>
>     minimum = reduce( absolute_minimum_function, l )

That doesn't work if the "minimum" element is negative, e.g.

l = [5, -4, -1, 9, -9].
#           ^^


def absolute_minimum_function(x, y):
    if abs(x) < abs(y):
        return x
    else:
        return y
minimum = reduce(absolute_minimum_function, l)

-- 
http://www.ososo.de/


From lbates at swamisoft.com  Thu Apr 15 09:55:36 2004
From: lbates at swamisoft.com (Larry Bates)
Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2004 08:55:36 -0500
Subject: [Newbie Q on String & List Manipulation]
References: <567a7c35.0404150247.7809bef5@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <wJidnftAtfbFCePdRVn-tw@comcast.com>

If you want to join all the items in a list together
try:

mycookies="".join(thecookies)

Secondly, your append to the cookies list is not
inside your loop.  In your code it will only
get executed a single time (after exiting the
loop) which is most likely why you only see the
LAST item.  Remember that indention in Python
has meaning!

Something more like this:

for item in thecookies:
    if re.compile("^SID").search(item):
        foundsessionid = 1
        break

    if not foundsessionid:
        print '> Failed to retrieve the "SID" cookie'
        sys.exit()

    #
    # grep the GV cookie from the HTTP response or die
    #
    matches = re.compile('^\s*var cookieVal= "(.*)";.*',
re.M).search(response)
    if matches:
        thecookies.append("GV=" + matches.group(1))
    else:
        print '> Failed to retrieve the "GV" cookie'
        sys.exit()

    print thecookies

mycookies = "".join(thecookies)

Regards,
Larry Bates
Syscon, Inc.

"Matthew" <matthew at coredumps.net> wrote in message
news:567a7c35.0404150247.7809bef5 at posting.google.com...
> Hello All,
>
>     today is the first day i try to programming in Python,
>     my assignment is, write a silly script that probably
>     will run a few times a day to check if the Gmail services
>     is ready or not. ;)
>
>     however, i encountered some problem when playing with the
>     list and string.
>
>     i'm using Python 2.2.2 on Redhat. if i write something like:
>
>         a = "one"
>         b = "two"
>         a += b
>         print a
>
>     i will get:
>
>         onetwo
>
>     ok, seems quite ok, however, not sure why it doesn't work on
>     my silly Gmail script (pls refer to my script belows):
>
>         for item in thecookies:
>             mycookies += item
>
>         print mycookies
>
>     i have exactly 4 items in the "thecookies" list, however, when
>     printing out "mycookies", it just show the last item (in fact,
>     seems the 4 items have been overlapped each others).
>
>     could somebody pls kindly take a look at my silly script and
>     gimme some advise?
>
>     thanks very much in advance! :)
>
> ---
> matthew
>
>
>
>
> import re
> import string
> import sys
> import urllib
>
> user = "da at email.address"
> pswd = "dapassword"
>
> schm = "https://"
> host = "www.google.com"
> path = "/accounts/ServiceLoginBoxAuth"
> qstr = {"service"  : "mail",                     \
>         "continue" : "http://gmail.google.com/", \
>         "Email"    : user,                       \
>         "Passwd"   : pswd}
>
> qstr = urllib.urlencode(qstr)
>
> url  = schm + host + path + "?" + qstr
>
> conn = urllib.urlopen(url)
>
> headers  = conn.info().headers
> response = conn.read()
>
> thecookies = []
>
> #
> # extract all the Set-Cookie from the HTTP response header and put it in
thecookies
> #
>
> for header in headers:
>         matches = re.compile("^Set-Cookie: (.*)$").search(header)
>         if matches:
>                 thecookies.append(matches.group(1))
>
> #
> # make sure we've grep the SID or die
> #
>
> foundsessionid = 0
>
> for item in thecookies:
>         if re.compile("^SID").search(item):
>                 foundsessionid = 1
>                 break
>
> if not foundsessionid:
>         print "> Failded to retrieve the \"SID\" cookie"
>         sys.exit()
>
> #
> # grep the GV cookie from the HTTP response or die
> #
>
> matches = re.compile("^\s*var cookieVal= \"(.*)\";.*",
re.M).search(response)
>
> if matches:
>         thecookies.append("GV=" + matches.group(1))
> else:
>         print "> Failed to retrieve the \"GV\" cookie"
>         sys.exit()
>
> print thecookies
>
> mycookies = ""
>
> for item in thecookies:
>         mycookies += item
>
> print mycookies
>
> #
> # still got many things to do right here...
> #
>
> sys.exit()




From fumanchu at amor.org  Wed Apr 21 18:58:06 2004
From: fumanchu at amor.org (Robert Brewer)
Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2004 15:58:06 -0700
Subject: PEP 329 and bytecode hacking
Message-ID: <DE1CF2B4FEC4A342BF62B6B2B334601E562038@opus.amorhq.net>

Phillip J. Eby wrote:
> At 03:07 PM 4/21/04 -0700, Robert Brewer wrote:
> >Raymond's cookbook recipe inspired me to write a generic Visitor for
> >inspecting and rewriting bytecode. Maybe it'll help someone out there
> >with prototyping bytecode hacks.
> 
> For more sophisticated bytecode modifications, you'll want to 
> keep track of 
> things like source line number, the nth instruction and its 
> operand if any 
> (so you can scan *backwards*), the list of locations of a 
> given opcode, 
> etc.  This Pyrex module:
> 
>
http://cvs.eby-sarna.com/PEAK/src/peak/util/_Code.pyx?rev=1.2&content-ty
pe=text/vnd.viewcvs-markup
> provides high-speed dynamic access to bytecode metadata, and is
suitable 
> for use in runtime bytecode hacks, since it does not require Python 
> function call overhead for each instruction.

Good idea! I'll work on including that. It's not as context-sensitive as
visiting each opcode in turn, but sometimes no context is good context.
:) Since it's already available from Pyrex, I'll adapt the functionality
into a codewalk.Visitor subclass.


Robert Brewer
MIS
Amor Ministries
fumanchu at amor.org



From harry.g.george at boeing.com  Mon Apr 26 10:56:25 2004
From: harry.g.george at boeing.com (Harry George)
Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2004 14:56:25 GMT
Subject: interfacing to a remote excel app
References: <20040426150428.69010a3c@pistache.sara.nl>
Message-ID: <xqxad0yvld2.fsf@cola2.ca.boeing.com>

Bram Stolk <bram at nospam.sara.nl> writes:

> pyHello,
> 
> 
> Google helped me find a nice package to interface python with MS Excel.
> "win32all", or sometimes called by the name "pywin32".
> 
> http://starship.python.net/crew/mhammond/
> 
> However, this win32all extension seems to be specifically built for the
> windows platform only.
> 
> What could I use if I want to interface to excel from a python interpreter
> running on a remote UNIX machine?
> 
> The specific task I want to accomplish is as follows:
> I want python on UNIX to be able to make selections in excel (highlight rows).
> Also, I want to have changes in the selected (highlighted) items in excel
> to be communicated to the python running on UNIX.
> 
> What would be the best way to do this?
> 
> Thanks,
> 
>   Bram
> 
> PS: A possible approach would be to run two interpreters, one on both
> platforms, and have the MS python talk to excel. However, I would like a
> solution with low-impact to the MS platform, and want to get away without
> having to install python and win32all on the MS machine.
> 
> -- 
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>  Bram Stolk, VR Engineer.
>  SARA Academic Computing Services Amsterdam, PO Box 94613, 1090 GP  AMSTERDAM
>  email: bram at nospam.sara.nl   Phone +31-20-5923059  Fax +31-20-6683167
> 
> "For the costs of subsidized agriculture in the EU, we can have all
> 56 million European cows fly around the world. First Class." -
> J. Norberg
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------

You are going to have to do *something* on the MS Excel box.
Otherwise you have a security nightmare (I'm now accessing your Excel
spreadsheet, and I don't even have to tell you about it.)

So it is a matter of how much work you are willing to do on the MS
box.  Installing a py2exe bundle is pretty straightforward, so I'm not
sure this is a stumbling block.  You could do a proxy with
Python-and-pywin32 talking to Excel via COM, and to the LAN via Pyro
or XMLRPC or SOAP.

Other than that, you could try to setup remote access to Excel.NET via
.NET remoting, and try to reach that from Mono or DotGNU.  But .NET
and its clones are not very Python-friendly, so the bindings may not
be available.  Even if you got it to work, you would be in a Microsoft
lockin situation, subject to changing protocols as .NET evolved (and
as patent fights perhaps made non-MS implementaitons difficult.)



-- 
harry.g.george at boeing.com
6-6M21 BCA CompArch Design Engineering
Phone: (425) 342-0007


From mwilson at the-wire.com  Thu Apr  1 14:42:55 2004
From: mwilson at the-wire.com (Mel Wilson)
Date: Thu, 01 Apr 2004 14:42:55 -0500
Subject: ESR's fortune.pl redone in python - request for critique
References: <mailman.155.1080705831.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<c4eflk$l9e$07$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: </CHbAls/K/3a089yn@the-wire.com>

In article <c4eflk$l9e$07$1 at news.t-online.com>,
Peter Otten <__peter__ at web.de> wrote:
>Yes, Mel's approach is the least scalable (it keeps the whole file),

   I have even more sympathy now (I had quite a bit before)
for the poster who asked whether Python had a built-in way
to read a file up to an arbitrarily-chosen delimiter.
(Subject: Can python read up to where a certain pattern is matched?)

        Regards.        Mel.


From nospam at nopes  Tue Apr  6 21:40:16 2004
From: nospam at nopes (Steve)
Date: Wed, 07 Apr 2004 11:40:16 +1000
Subject: Python and postgres
Message-ID: <40735c00$1@clarion.carno.net.au>

Hi,

I have postgres 7.4.1 running on my server and I've been trying to find 
a good python-postgres interface module. I installed Pygres on another 
machine running Linux using a RPM release and it works. However, I need 
to do the same for an alpha server and I can't find source files for 
PyGres that would compile with 7.4.1 anywhere. Can someone please help 
me out? I need a good postgres python interface to work with.

Cheers,

Steve



From sdahlbac at abo.fi  Wed Apr 28 07:46:13 2004
From: sdahlbac at abo.fi (Simon Dahlbacka)
Date: 28 Apr 2004 04:46:13 -0700
Subject: wxpython + py2exe + innosetup
References: <408eca0c$1@newsflash.abo.fi>
	<30260531.0404272030.3fe52362@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <ab4c5633.0404280346.19520bbc@posting.google.com>

simoninusa2001 at yahoo.co.uk (simo) wrote in message news:<30260531.0404272030.3fe52362 at posting.google.com>...
> "Simon Dahlbacka" <sdahlbacSPAMSUX at abo.fi> wrote:
> 
> > I'm "exefying" an application that uses wxpython, some com to control excel
> > and word and want to distribute this application.
> > 
> > after creating the executable with py2exe, it still works fine (at least on
> > my development machine), however, if I create an installer package with
> > innosetup, install it and try to run it, I get a busy cursor for a split
> > second and then.. nothing. no errors no traceback no nothing.. viewing
> > dependencies does not reveal anything strange, and running the installed
> > program in a debugger just tells that the application has exited with code
> > 0.
> 
> Does the program rely on any paths to files - i.e. does it open your
> Excel/Word file from the current directory?

it _should_ not, I had a problem with this earlier regarding icons,
but switched over to resourcepackage now. And both Excel and Word
doesn't do any filehandling until I explicitely "hit the button"

> This is the only problem I've ever found with Inno - it's an FAQ too,
> there's an option to set the "Run From" property in the shortcuts. The
> sympton is that it won't work from the shortcut in Start/Desktop but
> will work from the program directory.
>
> What about permissions - if you installed it as non-Admin and it needs
> to write something Admin-only.....

..hmm, I'm just doing a default install, there is however registry
settings involved, but since I've installed it being admin and running
it being admin, I doubt this is the problem.

> ISTool can make the InnoSetup options a bit easier to deal with -
> maybe you're accepting a default that needs to be changed?

hmm, never heard of that, I have to check it out later..

another strange thing is that I tried to sprinkle "print I got here
statements" all over the place, but didn't see any of those, even
running from a console.


/Simon


From colin.blackburn at durham.ac.uk  Tue Apr  6 06:20:46 2004
From: colin.blackburn at durham.ac.uk (Colin Blackburn)
Date: Tue, 06 Apr 2004 11:20:46 +0100
Subject: slightly OT: BUT NEEDs to be said
References: <lvOdnRJzZ9244ezdRVn-uQ@powergate.ca>
	<8b42d1998c978c8c1cddf15c52a1c57b@dizum.com>
Message-ID: <opr505owpmyxrafp@nntphost.dur.ac.uk>

On Mon,  5 Apr 2004 21:50:07 +0200 (CEST), Nomen Nescio <nobody at dizum.com>  
wrote:


> People have very real reason to fear MPFC: Highly educated/wealthy  
> family background/private
> school/Oxford/Cambridge people jumping about and acting 'zany' and  
> coming up
> with all sorts of useless sketches designed to appeal strictly to the  
> liberal-elite
> is a fairly repulsive artistic concept especially if you do not find the  
> style
> of MPFC even remotely amusing.
>
> Unfortunately this formula (hiring these sorts of people) was to become  
> the
> bed rock of BBC alternative comedy for years to come (Ben Elton, Steven  
> Fry
> etc etc) and remember people in the UK did not have the choice about  
> this crap
> as it came out of their licence fee (that is another subject)

Ben Elton went to Manchester Uni, in a northern industrial city, a far cry  
 from Oxbridge.

We did have a choice we could watch commercial ITV, unfortunately it's  
crap.

Colin
--


From news at bolognini.net  Fri Apr 30 20:50:49 2004
From: news at bolognini.net (Lorenzo Bolognini)
Date: Sat, 1 May 2004 02:50:49 +0200
Subject: Web development class
References: <c6uum1$gf4ul$1@ID-233256.news.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <c6uvof$ggq24$1@ID-233256.news.uni-berlin.de>

I wrote:

> h1.red (assigning properties to html entities)

Sorry,

h1.color("red")

Lorenzo Bolognini




From no.mail at available.net  Sun Apr 25 14:30:44 2004
From: no.mail at available.net (Georgy)
Date: Sun, 25 Apr 2004 18:30:44 GMT
Subject: Andreas' practical language comparison
References: <c6glig$phm$07$4@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <otTic.56285$yv.1871035@twister.southeast.rr.com>


"Andreas Koch" <nospam at kochandreas.com> wrote in message news:c6glig$phm$07$4 at news.t-online.com...
| Hi all,
|
| i started a little "practical language comparison" - practical
| in the sense that i compare how actual distributions and versions
| and their libraries (not abstract language specifications) solve small
| test cases like the 8 queens problem.
|
| Currently there are contributions for 17 different languages, and
| none for Phyton (and Lisp. And Forth. And many others ).
| If someone is interested in contributing a few implementations,
| please have a look at:
|
| http://www.kochandreas.com/home/language/lang.htm
|
| and mail me your code snippets (or critics) or post them here.
|
|                         thanks a lot,
| -- 
|                                    Andreas
| He screamed: THIS IS SIG!




From loic at fejoz.net  Fri Apr  2 02:12:44 2004
From: loic at fejoz.net (Yermat)
Date: Fri, 02 Apr 2004 09:12:44 +0200
Subject: Pyrex gets a perfect score.
In-Reply-To: <qrruj1-n75.ln1@snout.lairds.org>
References: <lhntj1-u62.ln1@snout.lairds.org>
	<905fcd91.0404011433.6681abd9@posting.google.com>
	<qrruj1-n75.ln1@snout.lairds.org>
Message-ID: <c4j3pk$5j3$1@arcturus.ciril.fr>

Kyler Laird wrote:
> rlratzel at siliconmetrics.com (Rick Ratzel) writes:
> 
> 
>>...just curious...did you look at Elmer
>>(http://elmer.sourceforge.net)? 
> 
> 
> I hadn't.  (I'm partial to Debian packages.)
> 
> The description "Elmer is not a Python-to-C or Python-to-Tcl
> translator" makes me think that it's not appropriate for what I need
> right now - the ability to submit only C code.
> 
> It does look like it would be useful for later work though.  I think
> it's likely to provide cleaner interfaces than what I was able to
> generate using Pyrex.
> 
> Thank you.
> 
> --kyler

Does it help ?

http://sourceforge.net/projects/py2cmod

Yermat



From No.Spam.mc at No.Spam.mclaveau.No.Spam.com  Sun Apr  4 08:27:16 2004
From: No.Spam.mc at No.Spam.mclaveau.No.Spam.com (Michel Claveau/Hamster)
Date: Sun, 4 Apr 2004 14:27:16 +0200
Subject: Python is faster than C
References: <406F0907.96F37EA1@tunes.org>
	<c4n9qf$jgq$1@news-reader4.wanadoo.fr>
	<c4nctk$pp3$3@news.service.uci.edu>
Message-ID: <c4ouri$9kf$1@news-reader2.wanadoo.fr>

Hi !

Yes, but Psyco is writted in C & Python, and it use an C module.
Said "Psyco is faster than C", it's like said "Psyco is faster than Psyco".

@-salutations  (and sorry for my *bad english*)
--
Michel Claveau





From greg at cosc.canterbury.ac.nz  Tue Apr 27 00:56:33 2004
From: greg at cosc.canterbury.ac.nz (Greg Ewing)
Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2004 16:56:33 +1200
Subject: Magic methods in extension types
In-Reply-To: <tyfad0yu6ma.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
References: <tyfisfnt2zd.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
	<m3isfnm1bg.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk>
	<tyfekqbt02c.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
	<m3ekqanceo.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk>
	<tyfad0yu6ma.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
Message-ID: <c6kp64$cjma4$1@ID-169208.news.uni-berlin.de>

Jacek Generowicz wrote:
> You are, in summary, saying that by _far_ the simplest way of adding
> __iadd__ to an extenion type is via tp_as_number->nb_inplace_add,
> aren't you.

It's the *only* way to do it.

<plug shamelevel="0">

Unless you use Pyrex, of course:

http://www.cosc.canterbury.ac.nz/~greg/python/Pyrex/

</plug>

-- 
Greg Ewing, Computer Science Dept,
University of Canterbury,	
Christchurch, New Zealand
http://www.cosc.canterbury.ac.nz/~greg



From rick.ratzel at austin.rr.com  Wed Apr  7 23:33:54 2004
From: rick.ratzel at austin.rr.com (Rick L. Ratzel)
Date: Thu, 08 Apr 2004 03:33:54 GMT
Subject: query regarding embeding python in C
References: <mailman.410.1081329123.20120.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <4074C562.1020707@austin.rr.com>


    Looks like you may have forgotton to link with libpython.a...for 
example, if your system has Python 2.3 installed, add this to your 
compile/link line: -L/usr/lib/python2.3/config -lpython2.3


Vardhman Jain wrote:
> Hi,
> 	I am trying out the concept of python code being executed from a C 
> program. I got a peice of code from the tutorial but I don't know how to 
> compile/use it
> 
> The code is
> #include <Python.h>
> 
> int
> main(int argc, char *argv[])
> {
>       Py_Initialize();
>         PyRun_SimpleString("from time import time,ctime\n"
>                                      "print 'Today is',ctime(time())\n");
>           Py_Finalize();
>             return 0;
> }
> ~
> ~
> 
> 
> Now If I do "c++ temp.c -I /usr/include/python2.2/" I get the errors
> [vardhman at linuxAddict TA]$ c++ temp.c  -I /usr/include/python2.2/
> /tmp/ccnpr9em.o(.text+0x11): In function `main':
> : undefined reference to `Py_Initialize'
> /tmp/ccnpr9em.o(.text+0x1e): In function `main':
> : undefined reference to `PyRun_SimpleString'
> /tmp/ccnpr9em.o(.text+0x26): In function `main':
> : undefined reference to `Py_Finalize'
> collect2: ld returned 1 exit status
> 
> Can some one tell me how to compile and use this code.
> 
> 
> Vardhman
> 
> 
>  -- 
> Vardhman Jain
> III Year B.Tech. CSE
> IIIT-Hyderabad
> Address:
> Room No 27, NBH, IIIT-Hyderabad,Hyderabad 500019
> 
> presence on net:
>     http://students.iiit.net/~vardhman
> 
> 
> 



From __peter__ at web.de  Fri Apr 30 07:42:22 2004
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2004 13:42:22 +0200
Subject: Where to put the HTMLgen files
References: <mailman.148.1083321354.25742.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <c6te2v$ho8$02$1@news.t-online.com>

dont bother wrote:

> It does not work. When I write a python program and
> include :
> 
> import HTMLgen
> 
> it does not finds this module. Can anyone tell me
> where should I place this HTMLgen directory? and how
> to make it work?

Put HTMLgen.py directly into the site-packages directory of your python
installation, e. g. /usr/local/lib/python2.3/site-packages/ 
or include the directory containing HTMLgen.py in the python search path by
defining an environment variable

PYTHONPATH=/dir/containing/my/module/

or put a text file dontbother.pth (only the suffix is important) containing

/dir/containing/my/module/

into a folder already in the python module search path, e. g. the
site-packages mentioned above.

Peter



From peter at engcorp.com  Fri Apr 30 07:52:04 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2004 07:52:04 -0400
Subject: Is classless worth consideration
In-Reply-To: <8ef9bea6.0404292307.66b78b83@posting.google.com>
References: <g9k090lhocd1nbd7g230br6ooub113hjt6@4ax.com>
	<69cbbef2.0404290259.fd8d71c@posting.google.com>
	<MbWdnTRxROYvZg3dRVn-uw@powergate.ca>
	<69cbbef2.0404291209.7a98a799@posting.google.com>
	<boydnb9qfrqWJQzdRVn-gw@powergate.ca>
	<8ef9bea6.0404292307.66b78b83@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <84Kdnfu3OoN4oA_dRVn-vg@powergate.ca>

Hung Jung Lu wrote:

> I have also pointed out previously that
> Python uses 5 devices where prototype-based needs only one: (a) class,
> (b) instance, (c) module, (d) metaclass, (e) scope. If this is not
> hideously baroque, then, Houston, we've got a problem. If you can
> really think outside the box, you'd pitch in also: (f) aspect.

Well, (c) module is merely a packaging technique, not anything
to do specifically with OOP, so it shouldn't appear in a list
of "what do you think makes Python's OO model hideously baroque".

As for class and instance, unless all other languages that
have class and instance are also considered baroque, it
hardly seems fair to separate them.

Scope doesn't quite seem to fit in this either, but not
being a theoretician I'll just leave the discussion at
this point and point out that for the purposes of a *large*
majority of the people using Python, these issues do not
arise and Python OO is very much a breath of fresh air
compared to anything else they've used.  Which still makes
it hard for me to see a claim of "hideous baroqueness" as
anything other than deliberately inflammatory, but wrong.

-Peter


From irmen at -NOSPAM-REMOVETHIS-xs4all.nl  Fri Apr 30 16:44:22 2004
From: irmen at -NOSPAM-REMOVETHIS-xs4all.nl (Irmen de Jong)
Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2004 22:44:22 +0200
Subject: Tkinter: focus/text selection problem with tkFileDialog
In-Reply-To: <c6tojf$fld$04$1@news.t-online.com>
References: <409259ed$0$574$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>
	<c6tojf$fld$04$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <4092baaa$0$559$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>

Peter Otten wrote:

> Irmen de Jong wrote:
> 
> 
>>Hi,
>>I'm having trouble with the code below.
>>It's just a regular Tk text widget in which you can type and
>>select text as expected, however the call to
>>tkFileDialog.askopenfilename() seems to screw things up. After the file
>>dialog, I can no longer use the Text widget (typing, selecting, it doesn't
>>work anymore!) What am I doing wrong?
> 
> 
> No sure, but opening the dialog before entering the main loop could be the
> problem. The following modification seems to work:
> 
> import Tkinter, tkFileDialog
> 
> window = Tkinter.Tk()
> txt = Tkinter.Text(window)
> txt.insert(Tkinter.END, "Choose a file, then try to select me")
> txt.pack()
> 
> def openFile(event=None):
>     name = tkFileDialog.askopenfilename()
>     txt.insert(Tkinter.END, "\nFile chosen: " + name)
> 
> txt.focus_set()
> window.after_idle(openFile)
> window.mainloop()
> 
> Peter
> 

Okay, I didn't know about the after_idle, and still don't understand why
my first attempt resulted in the weird behavior I described. But hey,
with a bit of tweaking, it works now :-)

Also another weird thing: I found out (using my original code
without the after_idle) that if I inserted a tkMessageBox before the
mainloop(), that the 'correct' behavior of the Text box is restored!
...confused...

--Irmen.

P.S. I have now also discovered Fredrik Lundh's page:
  http://www.effbot.org/zone/tkinter-threads.htm   Interesting.


From fgeiger at datec.at  Thu Apr  1 10:24:45 2004
From: fgeiger at datec.at (F. GEIGER)
Date: Thu, 1 Apr 2004 17:24:45 +0200
Subject: [Twisted] Cookbook?
Message-ID: <c4hc7v$r9a$1@newshispeed.ch>

Does anybody know of a cookbook for Twisted? It's not that helpful for me to
see how an echo server is written (can do this with std sockets) and success
stories are too little concrete.

What I actually want to try is using Twisted in factory automation. So I'm
thinking of cookbook topics like "If you want to capture data from an OPC
server and put them into a database, then go this way..." or "If you want to
notify the production manager of troubles found in production data, then go
for chapter..." etc.

Probably the way to answer such questions is to try it myself - no problem
with that, I'm working thru the examples right now. But if there are
shortcuts, I'd like to take them (who wouldn't do so?).

BTW, the dox itself seem to be extensive (the book in pdf format has 380+
pages), which is really pleasing.

Many thanks in advance and best regards
Franz GEIGER





From Mike at DeleteThis.Geary.com  Sat Apr  3 11:50:09 2004
From: Mike at DeleteThis.Geary.com (Michael Geary)
Date: Sat, 3 Apr 2004 08:50:09 -0800
Subject: Indent testers needed (Prothon)
References: <Unqbc.131025$cx5.57643@fed1read04>
	<b5rbc.132699$cx5.63133@fed1read04>
	<Xns94C0217D6BF1rzed@63.223.5.95>
	<2Msbc.136673$cx5.2385@fed1read04>
	<c4lsa1$ai6$1@news.service.uci.edu>
Message-ID: <106tqq5e6gn8aaf@corp.supernews.com>

Josiah Carlson wrote:
> >>/* loop 2 */
> >>ix = 2
> >>for
> >>  item
> >>    in
> >>      blist
> >>        :
> >>          alist[ix] =
> >>               alist[
> >>          ix
> >>          ]
> >
> ...
> The above code shows how you can make Prothon code
> extraordinarily ugly by exploting the continuation rules.
> Certainly most people don't see such ugly continuations
> in Python, but I think rule #3 is begging for trouble.

That's a strawman. The fact that you *could* write strange code like that
doesn't mean that there is anything wrong with Mark's continuation rules.

I could write a long Python program that uses no functions, classes, or
anything else to break it into smaller understandable pieces. Just one big
long piece of code that is indented to twenty levels. While I'm at it, I'll
use variable names that obscure what the code does.

Does that imply that there should be a maximum length to a Python source
file, a limit on the level of indenting, and restrictions on what variable
names I can use? Of course not.

-Mike




From peter at engcorp.com  Tue Apr 27 07:33:23 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2004 07:33:23 -0400
Subject: CPU usage of Python interpreter doing empty while loop under XP
In-Reply-To: <c6l61u$d0o8n$1@ID-180326.news.uni-berlin.de>
References: <c6kogu$cvgah$1@ID-180326.news.uni-berlin.de>
	<7kpr805ou6g8ucm9rok4nodkolcp02viig@4ax.com>
	<c6l61u$d0o8n$1@ID-180326.news.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <sZSdne1DBrSe2BPdRVn-sQ@powergate.ca>

Jon Perez wrote:

> Dennis Lee Bieber wrote:
> 
>>Stick a sleep(0) inside it, and no doubt you will see performance 
>>return to "normal". Even though the 0 means no actual delay is wanted, 
>>the task swap will occur, giving the OS a chance to respond to events.
> 
> 
> Great, it worked.
> 
> So 
> 
> while 1: sleep(0)
> 
> is a better alternative to
> 
> while 1: pass
> 
> (I'm using this for debugging purposes...)

How does that help your debugging?  That will tell us whether
sleep(0) is a better alternative, or whether there is really
something else you should be doing instead.

(I have never had occasion to use "while 1: pass" in Python, ever.)

-Peter


From faassen at infrae.com  Tue Apr 27 14:32:29 2004
From: faassen at infrae.com (Martijn Faassen)
Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2004 20:32:29 +0200
Subject: Is Perl *that* good?
In-Reply-To: <108t1tlhnhi46ee@corp.supernews.com>
References: <mailman.44.1083079272.25742.python-list@python.org>
	<108t1tlhnhi46ee@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <408EA73D.5000507@infrae.com>

Michael Geary wrote:
> Robert Brewer wrote:
> 
>>I wish Python had won, as well. But time is linear (in
>>my mind). I now wish only that we could leverage the
>>similarity of JS and Python (execution and binding
>>models) into more Python users. Marketing needs
>>to run with the line, "So you know Javascript? Then
>>you know Python!"
> 
> That was my impression of Python when I started using it after some
> extensive JavaScript work: "Cool! It's just like JavaScript but with a lot
> more goodies!" The two languages struck me as very similar. Even though
> JavaScript *looks* like C, it *works* much more like Python.

When I played with JavaScript it felt like a badly broken Python. That's 
still not bad for a language. :)

Playing with JavaScript really quickly makes you realize how many 
details Python got right.

Regards,

Martijn


From ramen at lackingtalent.com  Mon Apr  5 02:44:48 2004
From: ramen at lackingtalent.com (Dave Benjamin)
Date: Mon, 05 Apr 2004 06:44:48 -0000
Subject: Python conference slogan
References: <mailman.189.1080759511.20120.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <slrnc720n6.sf.ramen@lackingtalent.com>

Python: It starts with "P" and runs on Linux.
;)


From richie at entrian.com  Thu Apr  1 12:09:34 2004
From: richie at entrian.com (Richie Hindle)
Date: Thu, 01 Apr 2004 18:09:34 +0100
Subject: PLEASE STOP!!!
In-Reply-To: <406C40E8.10209@prescod.net>
References: <mailman.210.1080803438.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<95aa1afa.0404010352.80de14e@posting.google.com>
	<406C40E8.10209@prescod.net>
Message-ID: <3uio60lcna2ivhejcgtjqus40tj1n5ne1n@4ax.com>


[Paul]
> PLEASE STOP!!! ...ruining April Fools!
> 
> Camilo Olarte wrote:
>  >
>  > OOUCH ! I Almost believe it!

You can't count Camilo in with the spoilers - Camilo obviously believes
that my 'goto' module is some kind of prank fiction, when in fact it's a
working module ready to be downloaded and used.  There's probably a word
for this but I've no idea what it is...

-- 
Richie Hindle
richie at entrian.com




From mark at prothon.org  Thu Apr 22 14:20:57 2004
From: mark at prothon.org (Mark Hahn)
Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2004 11:20:57 -0700
Subject: Why we will use obj$func() often
Message-ID: <d2Uhc.22272$dZ1.1600@fed1read04>

"Michael Geary" <Mike at Geary.com> wrote ...

>Does anyone have some sample code where obj$func() would be used?
> (Apologies if I missed it.)

There have been so many messages about delegation and binding since Greg
originally posted his meowing cat message that it's hard to remember what
the original problem was that Greg pointed out.  At that time Prothon had no
solution for the problem.  Now there is a released solution but it is
incomplete and has broken the xor operator ( ^ ) (don't tell anyone <grin>).
I'll restate it here in my own way (this is copied from something I posted
on comp.lang.py).

Statement of problem (These are tested programs from released Python and
Prothon:):

# Python

class klass:
    def __init__(self):
        self.me = 1
    def func(self):
        print "func1,self"+str(self.me),

class klass2(klass):
    def __init__(self):
        self.me = 2
    def func(self):
        klass.func(self)        # delegation
        print "func2,self"+str(self.me),

inst = klass2()
inst.func()    # prints  func1,self2   func2,self2

# Directly translated to Prothon

Klass = Object()
with Klass:
    .me = 0            # extra line
    def .__init__():
        .me = 1
    def .func():
        print "func1,self"+.me,

Klass2 = Klass()
with Klass2:
    def .__init__():
        .me = 2
    def .func():
        Klass.func()    # does not do what python does
        print "func2,self"+.me,

inst = Klass2()
inst.func()    # prints  func1,self0  func2,self2

As you can see, the call Klass.func() got the function func from the object
Klass and then called it on Klass using Klass as the target "self" instead
of the instance "inst".  This is not what Python did and this is the
problem.

In Python the call klass.func() was different because Python knows that
klass is a class and therefore obviously cannot be the target of call (an
instance), so it made the programmer pass the instance self to use as a
parameter.

To fix this, we need to be able to specify in general, what the self object
is going to be during the execution of a function in Prothon (I call this
choice of self "binding self to function" even though it's temporary during
execution).

Greg's solution was to replace the period before the function name in
klass.func() with a different symbol to indicate that the func is not
supposed to be bound to klass as the syntax normally suggests (as in
list.sort!()), but instead defaults to the current self.  My final scheme is
almost the same but instead of just defaulting to self, it specifically
forces it to self (this may seem like a semantic difference, but don't say
that to Greg <grin>).

So now we have this solution.  Note that delegation to an ancestor prototype
(class in Python), is a common operation, especially in the __init__
function:

Klass = Object()
with Klass:
    def $__init__():
        $me = 1
    def $func():
        print "func1,self"+$me,

Klass2 = Klass()
with Klass2:
    def $__init__():
        $me = 2
    def $func():
        Klass$func()        # voila!  problem fixed
        print "func2,self"+$me,

inst = Klass2()
inst.func()    # prints  func1,self2   func2,self2







From http  Fri Apr 16 01:06:04 2004
From: http (Paul Rubin)
Date: 15 Apr 2004 22:06:04 -0700
Subject: Automatic, portable optimization of global access
References: <5d83790c.0404150721.46a3b5d0@posting.google.com>
	<7xvfk17zeg.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<5d83790c.0404151803.598c1807@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <7xbrlseclf.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

python at rcn.com (Raymond Hettinger) writes:
> """ Binding should be applied selectively to those functions where
> speed is important and dynamic updates are not desired (i.e. the
> globals do not change). In more dynamic environments, a more
> conservative approach is to set builtin_only to True so that only the
> builtins get optimized (this includes functions like len(), exceptions
> like IndexError, and constants like True or False).
> """

Well, it's possible that builtins get changed too.  I've used "len" as
a variable a few times without realizing that I was clobbering a builtin.

Maybe the compiler could detect when it's ok to run the optimizer, and
automatically run it when it can.


From russelllear at earthlink.net  Tue Apr  6 23:49:56 2004
From: russelllear at earthlink.net (Russell Lear)
Date: Wed, 07 Apr 2004 03:49:56 GMT
Subject: OFF-TOPIC:: Why Lisp is not my favorite programming language
References: <165b3efa.0403030443.4d591f04@posting.google.com>
	<40460dd5$0$5916$7a628cd7@news.club-internet.fr>
	<d771b842.0403040735.3b5200ae@posting.google.com>
	<e87fc4b0.0403221114.254b7ee5@posting.google.com>
	<d771b842.0404061258.655b8e56@posting.google.com>
	<6in670lrldbjkuujle68a526293j57a7mn@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <ETKcc.18012$Dv2.4985@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net>

Stephen Horne wrote:

> On 6 Apr 2004 13:58:45 -0700, nish20 at netzero.net (Mike Nishizawa)
> wrote:
> 
>>mintiSPAMBLOCK at yahoo.com (Minti) wrote in message
>>news:<e87fc4b0.0403221114.254b7ee5 at posting.google.com>...
> 
>>> However when some one says that the code might be 31.?
>>> times slower as compared to C, kinda of scares me. Could assert such
>>> figures. I know speed is not the one and only goal but just wondering
>>> if these figures are correct.
> 
> It wouldn't surprise me. LISP is normally interpreted - maybe always,
> though I'm not certain of that. The interpreter would be written in C.
> And, depending on the implementation, the built-in list operations may
> well be much more basic than those in Python, for instance, meaning
> that more of the relatively sophisticated operations will be handled
> using interpreted library code.

I'm not sure what version of LISP you're talking about here, but modern LISP
implementations are actually quite efficient.  I've run a web server
implemented in Scheme (a Lisp varient) with the equivalent of JSP pages -
and I believe performance would compare favorably with the equivalent Java
or Python.  Not that I'd take on IIS or Apache, but they suffice for many
situations.  (I know that FranzLisp offers an Enterprise version.  But
there's too many digits in the price tag for me to bring one home.)

I've also written some graphics programs and they performed as well as Java. 
(again, I wouldn't try to re-implement a 3D video game in it, but it did ok
for menus, card games or turtle graphics).

Certainly LISP started out as a list processing language, but it's grown up
in the last 40 years.  The Lisp programmer has access to hashtables, trees
and the usual OO tools of inheritance, polymorphism, macros, etc.  And, if
specialized or high-performance libraries are needed, most Lisp
implementations provide for extensions similar in concept to Python's.

I'm not pushing a Lisp agenda here - I actually prefer Python - but I don't
think people should dismiss Lisp as being a language suitable only (or
mainly) for list processing.  

Russell.



From flupke at nonexistingdomain.com  Thu Apr 22 17:39:17 2004
From: flupke at nonexistingdomain.com (flupke)
Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2004 21:39:17 GMT
Subject: python web programming / CMS
References: <EOOhc.82192$A9.5538906@phobos.telenet-ops.be>
	<mailman.910.1082637637.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<XnQhc.82310$X%7.5425202@phobos.telenet-ops.be>
	<0kVhc.54316$eB7.29255@newssvr25.news.prodigy.com>
Message-ID: <9YWhc.82882$%l7.5377160@phobos.telenet-ops.be>

asdf sdf wrote:
>
> i've only played a bit with Spyce.
>
> you can use it as plain CGI, or you can use FastCGI or modpython.
> your choice.
>
> you can invoke python scripts which can make database connections.
>
> database support isn't built into Spyce.  you get the python-wrapper
> for whatever database you want.  a bunch are available.  certainly
> all the major databases.
>
> modpython has recently greatly expanded its scope.  now it includes
> PSP style functionality.  also session support.  seems to overlap
> pretty heavily/maybe subsume what Spyce does.
>
> i tried asking on the modpython group for a comparison of modpython
> PSP v. Spyce PSP, especially  in terms on completeness, stability,
> scope, etc.
>
> i triggered an interesting discussion of PSP-style templates, but no
> one directly answered my question.
>
> Be advised also there are other python PSP-style projects out there,
> including one named PSP.
>
> Also I hope you realize none of these projects are a CMS framework of
> any sort.  They are tools with which you could write your own.
>
> I assume your CMS requirements are very minimal or you would avoid
> trying to reinvent the wheel.

Well, i'm assigned a project where i have to choose a intranet sollution
and a platform for future webbased tools development.
I'm trying to get a clear idea of what is possible.
For the moment 2 kinds of setup are considered
OpenCMS - JBoss - Apache - Tomcat
or
Plone - Zope - Apache - Spyce / modpython

A have worked with jsp's before so i pretty much know what i could
except from the first environment. But python triggered my interest
because it's faster to develop code (and clean code) and Plone
seems like one of the best opensource CMS around.

I know that with OpenCMS, i could make html pages with jsp
code inside. Is that also possible in Plone/Zope? I mean having plone
process pages with embedded Python through modpython or Spyce?
Or is plone going to send the pages to Zope? That's a part that's not
yet clear for me.

Also, can one use his own python objects in those PSP pages?

flupke




From has.temp2 at virgin.net  Fri Apr 30 10:55:24 2004
From: has.temp2 at virgin.net (has)
Date: 30 Apr 2004 07:55:24 -0700
Subject: Is classless worth consideration
References: <g9k090lhocd1nbd7g230br6ooub113hjt6@4ax.com>
	<69cbbef2.0404290259.fd8d71c@posting.google.com>
	<MbWdnTRxROYvZg3dRVn-uw@powergate.ca>
	<69cbbef2.0404291209.7a98a799@posting.google.com>
	<boydnb9qfrqWJQzdRVn-gw@powergate.ca>
Message-ID: <69cbbef2.0404300655.4cc51bbf@posting.google.com>

Peter Hansen <peter at engcorp.com> wrote in message news:<boydnb9qfrqWJQzdRVn-gw at powergate.ca>...

> > Compared to C++, I expect it's a real breath of fresh air. But
> > compared to how something like Self does OO, it is indeed hideously
> > baroque.
> 
> Oh, now you're qualifying the statement.  In comparison to
> something less baroque, it's baroque.  Fair enough...

Merely posting you some meaningful reference points, as I take it by
your adjectives you're more from the C++ end of the spectrum.


> But at least you say what you think.  That counts for
> something. :-)
> 
> -Peter
> 
> P.S. You've got an art background, I've got an engineering
> background, neither of us has a CS background.  Maybe that
> ought to tell us how well we're likely to communicate about
> software and we can just stop here. ;-)

The day that scientists, engineers, programmers and artists start
talking to one another, instead of constructing vast impenetrable
fortresses to hide behind, is one I _greatly_ look forward to. Where
such rampant self-serving cliquery and deeply reactionary
conservativism sprung from I don't know, but I do wish it'd hurry up
and bog off again. Poor Leonardo must be spinning in his grave. :(


From deetsNOSPAM at web.de  Thu Apr 29 09:32:02 2004
From: deetsNOSPAM at web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Thu, 29 Apr 2004 15:32:02 +0200
Subject: How to find the length of an iterator?
References: <1a6oinf1xl5ui$.dlg@thorstenkampe.de>
	<c6qusl$fbu8a$1@ID-111250.news.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <c6r0ll$e7vj3$1@ID-111250.news.uni-berlin.de>

Diez B. Roggisch wrote:

> Its the nature of an iterator that it doesn't support anything beyond
> access to the current item and signaling when its finished. So if you need
> the length, try to get a hold on the underlying connection.

s/connection/collection/

Got confused on my new touchstream dvorak keyboard :)
-- 
Regards,

Diez B. Roggisch


From pythongnome at hotmail.com  Tue Apr 20 08:12:00 2004
From: pythongnome at hotmail.com (Lucas Raab)
Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 12:12:00 GMT
Subject: Good Python Tk overview
References: <J13hc.186320$oR5.5397@pd7tw3no>
Message-ID: <ks8hc.2746$gH6.1177@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net>


"News User" <newsuser at itgoesclick.com> wrote in message
news:J13hc.186320$oR5.5397 at pd7tw3no...
> I'm comming from the background of being primarily a data processing
> programmer (Python) and I'd like to do some GUI stuff for a comercial
> project but I have quite a bit of time, nothing too complex but it has
> to work on Windows98+ OSX and Solaris so I was thinking Tkinter. I was
> wondering if there were some sites with a good overview of the whole
> Python +Tk shpeal, I've got some code examples and "Programming Python
> 2nd Edition" but that's more of a learn by example, rather than an
> overview of concepts. Anyone have a good recommendation?

An Introduction to Tkinter by Fredrik Lundh is an excellent place to start.
You can find it at: http://www.pythonware.com.library/tkinter/introduction.
There's a link to download the file as a PDF for later viewing.




From python at rcn.com  Sat Apr 17 19:57:44 2004
From: python at rcn.com (Raymond Hettinger)
Date: 17 Apr 2004 16:57:44 -0700
Subject: Proposed PEP: Treating Builtins as Constants in the Standard Library
Message-ID: <5d83790c.0404171557.3db69f48@posting.google.com>

Comments are invited on the following proposed PEP.


Raymond Hettinger

-------------------------------------------------------



PEP: 329
Title: Treating Builtins as Constants in the Standard Library
Author: Raymond Hettinger <python at rcn.com>
Status: Pre-PEP


Abstract
========

This proposal is to add a private function for treating builtin
references as constants and to apply that function throughout
the standard library.


Motivation
==========

The library contains code such as _len=len which is intended to create
fast local references instead of a slower global lookups.  Though
necessary for performance, these constructions clutter the code and
are usually incomplete (missing many opportunities).

If the proposal is adopted, those constructions could be eliminated
from the code base and at the same time improve upon their results
in terms of performance.

There are currently over a hundred instances of ``while 1`` in the
library.  They were not replaced with the more readable ``while True``
because of performance reasons (the compiler cannot eliminate the
test because True is not known to always be a constant).  Conversion
of True to a constant will clarify the code while retaining performance.

Many other basic Python operations run much slower because of global
lookups.  In a try/except statement, the matching exception must be
re-looked up on every call (whether or not the exception is raised).
Similarly, simple identity tests such as ``while input is not None``
require the None variable to be re-looked up on every pass.
Builtin lookups are especially egregious because the enclosing
global scope must be checked first.  These lookup chains devour cache
space that is best used elsewhere.

In short, if the proposal is adopted, the code will become cleaner
and performance will improve across the board.


Proposal
========

Add an internal module called _bind.py which contains two functions,
bind_builtins() and bind_builtins_and_globals().

For each module in the standard library, add a pair of lines near
the near of the code::

    import _bind, sys
    _bind.bind_builtins(sys.modules[__name__])

In a few select cases (such as sre_compile) where the module variables
are just a collection of constants, the globals will also be converted 
to constants using bind_builtins_and_globals().  This will not be
applied anywhere there would be cause for a user to externally
change the value of one of the module variables.


Question and Answers
====================

Q. Will this make everyone divert their attention to optimization issues?

A. No, it is internal only (not user visible).  Also, it reduces the need
   to think about optimization because it is done automatically.


Q. What if the module defines a variable shadowing a builtin?

A. This does happen.  For instance, True can be redefined at the module
   level as `True = (1==1)`.  The sample implementation below detects the
   shadowing and leaves the global lookup unchanged.


Q. How do you know this works?

A. I implemented it, applied it to every module in library, and ran the
   test suite without exception.


Q. Are you the first person to recognize that most global lookups are for
   values that never change?

A. No, this has long been known.  Skip provides an especially eloquent
   explanation in [1]_.


Q. Why not make this a public module so that users can optimize builtins
   or builtins and globals in their own code?

A. The ASPN recipe [2]_ is provided for this purpose.  It takes a modicum
   of skill to use correctly and not inadvertently tranform a non-constant.


Q. What if I have an overpowering urge to import a library module,
   write a new shadowing builtin, and insert it into the module's namespace?

A. Your problems are less acute than with a module written in C
   because you can always comment out the automatic binding.


Q. More realistically, what if I want to replace the builtins module and
   supply my own implementations?

A. Either do this before importing a module, or just reload the module,
   or disable _bind.py.


Q. How susceptible is this module to changes in Python's byte coding?

A. It imports opcode.py to protect against renumbering.  Also, it uses
   LOAD_CONST and LOAD_GLOBAL which are fundamental and have been around
   forever.  That notwithstanding, the coding scheme could change
   dramatically and this implementation would have to change along with
   modules like `dis` which also rely on the current coding scheme.
  


Sample Implementation
=====================

Here is a sample implementation for _bind.py::

    from types import ClassType, FunctionType
    from opcode import opmap, HAVE_ARGUMENT, EXTENDED_ARG
    LOAD_GLOBAL, LOAD_CONST = opmap['LOAD_GLOBAL'], opmap['LOAD_CONST']

    __all__ = ['bind_builtins', 'bind_builtins_and_globals']

    def bind(f, builtin_only=True):
        """ Return a new function with global references converted to constants.

        If builtin_only is True (the default), will convert all builtin
        references unless they have been overridden in the function's globals.
        If builtin_only is False, will also convert other module variable
        references into constants.

        """
        import __builtin__
        env = vars(__builtin__).copy()
        if builtin_only:
            stoplist = f.func_globals   # do not replace overridden builtins
        else:
            stoplist = {}
            env.update(f.func_globals)

        co = f.func_code
        newcode = map(ord, co.co_code)
        newconsts = list(co.co_consts)
        codelen = len(newcode)

        i = 0
        while i < codelen:
            opcode = newcode[i]
            if opcode == EXTENDED_ARG:
                return f    # handle only the simple cases        
            if opcode == LOAD_GLOBAL:            
                oparg = newcode[i+1] + (newcode[i+2] << 8)            
                name = co.co_names[oparg]
                if name in env and name not in stoplist:
                    value = env[name]
                    try:
                        pos = newconsts.index(value)
                    except ValueError:
                        pos = len(newconsts)
                        newconsts.append(value)
                    newcode[i] = LOAD_CONST
                    newcode[i+1] = pos & 0xFF
                    newcode[i+2] = pos >> 8
            i += 1
            if opcode >= HAVE_ARGUMENT:
                i += 2

        codestr = ''.join(map(chr, newcode))
        if codestr == co.co_code:
            return f    # no changes were found
        codeobj = type(co)(co.co_argcount, co.co_nlocals, co.co_stacksize,
                        co.co_flags, codestr, tuple(newconsts), co.co_names,
                        co.co_varnames, co.co_filename, co.co_name,
                        co.co_firstlineno, co.co_lnotab, co.co_freevars,
                        co.co_cellvars)
        return type(f)(codeobj, f.func_globals, f.func_name, f.func_defaults,
                        f.func_closure)

    def bind_all(module_or_class, builtin_only=True):
        """Recursively apply bind() to functions in a module or class.

        Use as the last line of the module (after everything is defined, but
        before test code or lines defining shorthand references to functions.

        If builtin_only is True (the default), will convert all builtin
        references unless they have been overridden in the function's globals.

        If builtin_only is False, will also convert other module variable
        references into constants.  This should only be used in modules
        where the values of the module variables are truly constant.

        """
        for k, v in vars(module_or_class).items():
            if type(v) is FunctionType:
                newv = bind(v)
                setattr(module_or_class, k, newv)
            elif type(v) in (type, ClassType):
                bind_all(v, builtin_only)

    import sys
    bind_all(sys.modules[__name__], False)         # Binder, bind thyself!

    # Self-documenting API (eliminates the builtin_only switch)
    bind_builtins = bind_all
    bind_builtins_and_globals = lambda m: bind_all(m, False)


The final code should have some minor embellishments:

* Automatic detection of a non-CPython environment that does not have
  bytecodes.  In that situation, the bind functions would simply
  return the original function unchanged.  This assures that the two
  line additions to library modules do not impact other implementations.

* Add a few lines to handle reading and writing of EXTENDED_ARG.  While
  this almost never arises in practice, it is best to have the code as
  adaptable as possible.


References
==========

.. [1] Optimizing Global Variable/Attribute Access
       http://www.python.org/peps/pep-0266.html

.. [2] ASPN Recipe for a non-private implementation
       http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Cookbook/Python/Recipe/277940

Copyright
=========

This document has been placed in the public domain.



..
   Local Variables:
   mode: indented-text
   indent-tabs-mode: nil
   sentence-end-double-space: t
   fill-column: 70
   End:


From rook_5150 at yahoo.com  Mon Apr 12 23:11:30 2004
From: rook_5150 at yahoo.com (Bryan Castillo)
Date: 12 Apr 2004 20:11:30 -0700
Subject: Escaping characters in MySQLdb query
References: <AkEec.271$U83.155@fed1read03> <QAEec.319$U83.296@fed1read03>
Message-ID: <1bff1830.0404121911.1dc9a9dc@posting.google.com>

"Sean Berry" <sean_berry at cox.net> wrote in message 
> > I wrote a little script that is inserting thousands of records into a
>  mysql
> > database.
> >
> > How do I escape characters like ' in my insert statements?
> >
> > I have something like the following (much shorter) example:
> >
> > c.execute("INSERT INTO records (var1, var2) values ('%s', '%s')"
>  %(value1,
> > value2))
> >
> > My problem is when value1 is something like "Tom's auto supply".  The ' in
> > Tom's needs to be escaped.  How can I do this?


Python 2.3.3 (#51, Dec 18 2003, 20:22:39) [MSC v.1200 32 bit (Intel)] on win32
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> import MySQLdb
>>> print MySQLdb.escape_string.__doc__
escape_string(s) -- quote any SQL-interpreted characters in string s.

Use connection.escape_string(s), if you use it at all.
_mysql.escape_string(s) cannot handle character sets. You are
probably better off using connection.escape(o) instead, since
it will escape entire sequences as well as strings.
>>>



> >
> > Thanks.
> >
> >


From deetsNOSPAM at web.de  Tue Apr 27 09:27:58 2004
From: deetsNOSPAM at web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2004 15:27:58 +0200
Subject: Regular Expressions
References: <c6j0ht$ed0$1@atlantis.news.tpi.pl>
	<c6j3sc$br0hn$1@ID-111250.news.uni-berlin.de>
	<c6lhh8$dsi$1@nemesis.news.tpi.pl>
	<c6ljdv$db9kl$1@ID-111250.news.uni-berlin.de>
	<c6lmml$2ne$1@nemesis.news.tpi.pl>
Message-ID: <c6lnlq$cpi4d$1@ID-111250.news.uni-berlin.de>

..:: sjf ::.. wrote:

> it works as long as any_text_2 and any_text_3 _not_ contains spaces, but
> in my files these contain spaces and then this regexp cuts any_text_2 (and
> any_text_3) after first space :((

As long as you don't provide better examples, I can't come up with a better
solution. I suggest a read:

http://catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html

And while I don't have a problem helping you, people (including me)
generally prefer that someone shows that he tries for himself and not only
tries to benefit from the helpfulness of other people. So how about trying
to figure out how regexes work fer yourself?

-- 
Regards,

Diez B. Roggisch


From sarah_wang23 at hotmail.com  Sat Apr  3 21:52:04 2004
From: sarah_wang23 at hotmail.com (Sarah Wang)
Date: 3 Apr 2004 18:52:04 -0800
Subject: Siginificant figures calculating zprob
Message-ID: <9405c70f.0404031852.155d17d5@posting.google.com>

Hello everyone!

I want to calculate zprob(the area under the normal curve)
with python and I managed to find a function from the
internet.

But the problem is that the function calculates the result
with only a few significant figures. If I want to get the 
20th number of the result(z-prob) what should I do? I want
to get the confidence level of "6sigma" and all I get at the
moment is "1".

I remember that Python's long type has unlimited number of
significant figures as long as the memory allows. What about
floating point numbers?

BTW, I don't have enough knowledge in numerical analysis.

Thanks in advance,

Sarah Wang

p.s. Apologize me if I have made any mistake writing in the
posting -- I am not very goot at both English and mathematics. :)


From nmkolev at uni-bonn.de  Wed Apr 21 10:51:56 2004
From: nmkolev at uni-bonn.de (Nickolay Kolev)
Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2004 16:51:56 +0200
Subject: Optimizing a text statistics function
Message-ID: <c661pe$tie$1@f1node01.rhrz.uni-bonn.de>

Hi all,

I am currently writing some simple functions in the process of learning 
Python. I have a task where the program has to read in a text file and 
display some statistics about the tokens in that file.

The text I have been feeding it is Dickens' David Copperfield.

It is really simple - it reads the file in memory, splits it on 
whitespace, strips punctuation characters and transforms all remaining 
elements to lowercase. It then looks through what has been left and 
creates a list of tuples (count, word) which contain each unique word 
and the number of time it appears in the text.

The code (~30 lines and easy to read :-) can be found at 
http://www.uni-bonn.de/~nmkolev/python/textStats.py

I am now looking for a way to make the whole thing run faster. I have 
already made many changes since the initial version, realising many 
mistakes. As I do not think of anything else, I thought I would ask the 
more knowledgeable.

I find the two loops through the initial list a bit troubling. Could 
this be avoided?

Any other remarks and suggestions will also be greatly appreciated.

Many thanks in advance,
Nicky


From fredrik at pythonware.com  Fri Apr 16 06:28:48 2004
From: fredrik at pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2004 12:28:48 +0200
Subject: tear-off buttons for Tkinter Text objects?
References: <c4t7mo$n2g$1@proxy1.wright.edu>
Message-ID: <c5ocge$4fa$1@sea.gmane.org>

Deacon Sweeney wrote:

> Hi. I've embedded some buttons in a Text object, and I would like these
> buttons to perform a 'tear-off' of that line when clicked. That is, when
the
> button is clicked, I would like a new Toplevel to appear with a new Text
> object which contains the text. Creating a 'pop-off' button, where the
> Toplevel appears at some predetermined (or calculatable) point would be
> easy, I'd just create the Toplevel, position it, and pass the info to it.
> The difference would be that the 'tear-off' button would automatically
> 'grab' the new Toplevel so that it could be easily repositioned in the
same
> motion of the mouse.

this approach should work:

- add custom event handlers for button press, mouse motion, and button
  release.

- in the button press handler, register the current mouse coordinates
(relative to
  the root window), create the toplevel, and position it in a suitable
location.  also
  grab the mouse pointer (to make sure you get all mouse events)
(autograbbing
  may take care of that, but a little explicitness never hurts)

- in the mouse motion handler, calculate the difference between the current
  mouse position and the last registered position, and move the toplevel
accordingly

- in the mouse release handler, release the grab (if necessary)

</F>






From simoninusa2001 at yahoo.co.uk  Tue Apr 13 18:54:31 2004
From: simoninusa2001 at yahoo.co.uk (simo)
Date: 13 Apr 2004 15:54:31 -0700
Subject: Making urllib2 work with proxy urls
References: <84fc4588.0404130351.77a1faf0@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <30260531.0404131454.49adec6d@posting.google.com>

pythonguy at Hotpop.com (Anand Pillai) wrote:

> My company uses an automatic proxy configuration url of the form
> http://server.company.com/department/proxy.pac .
> 
> I have made urllib2 work with normal proxies/firewalls, even the ones
> requiring authentication, but I am stuck with this problem.
> 
> I tried getting the actual proxy server IP and configuring urllib2
> with the normal way it works with proxies, but it has not worked
> for me.

The pac file is usually just a script with the config data for
browsers, it will return something like "PROXY
http-proxy.mydomain.com:80"

I very much doubt urllib2 can actually proces the .pac file.

You should be able to open that file and figure out what you need to
set the proxy variable to in urllib2 (or your ENVironment).

urllib just "automagically" works through proxies, not sure about
2....


From NAVMSE-KAOMAL-HQ01 at kao.com.my  Fri Apr 30 04:31:29 2004
From: NAVMSE-KAOMAL-HQ01 at kao.com.my (NAV for Microsoft Exchange-KAOMAL-HQ01)
Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2004 16:31:29 +0800
Subject: Norton AntiVirus detected a virus in a message you sent.
Message-ID: <DEF112D0BF8AD811AFF10006295024701B67D5@KAOMAL-HQ01>

Norton AntiVirus found the "W32.Netsky.D at mm" virus in the attachment
"your_details.pif".
The file was Quarantined.

Recipient of the infected attachment:  Yew, Siak Heng\Inbox
Subject of the message:  Re: Your details
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From fumanchu at amor.org  Sun Apr  4 13:21:20 2004
From: fumanchu at amor.org (Robert Brewer)
Date: Sun, 4 Apr 2004 10:21:20 -0700
Subject: __import__() with packages
Message-ID: <DE1CF2B4FEC4A342BF62B6B2B334601E561FAE@opus.amorhq.net>

Marco Herrn wrote:
> On 2004-04-04, John Roth <newsgroups at jhrothjr.com> wrote:
> > m = __import__("spam.eggs")
> > eggs = spam.eggs
> >
> > This will probably also work:
> >
> > eggs = __import__("spam.eggs").eggs
> 
> Thanks,
> but in my application I read the names of the modules from a file,
> so I do not know them when writing (in this case I wouldn't know the
> name 'eggs'). Since the solution from Paul works for me, I will use
> that.

Feel free to use my xray tool:

http://www.aminus.org/rbre/python/xray.py


Robert Brewer
MIS
Amor Ministries
fumanchu at amor.org



From peter at engcorp.com  Mon Apr  5 08:33:49 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Mon, 05 Apr 2004 08:33:49 -0400
Subject: Newbie need help
In-Reply-To: <Xns94C26A85EAAC4Help..recipe.4.9.in.@130.139.56.200>
References: <Xns94C26A85EAAC4Help..recipe.4.9.in.@130.139.56.200>
Message-ID: <QuidneeDLtmzz-zdRVn-iQ@powergate.ca>

Tony Ha wrote:

> Question from a newbie. 
> 
> In the interactive Python shell.
> 
> 1. How do I find out where I am in the file system under WindowXP?
> 
>    I try os.curdir, which only give '.' back, I would like a full path
> like the Unix 'pwd' give.

Cameron answered that.  Note that os.curdir isn't even a function
call, so it is really just returning "the symbol which represents
the current directory in paths".

> 2. How do I change directory under WindowXp?
> 
>    I try os.chdir('C:\Downloads\Python\SOAPpy-0.11.3\fpconst-0.6.0')
> but I get the following Error message:

Learn about escape sequences in strings.  You have a \f in the
above, which translates into an ASCII formfeed character.  The
other three are all (I believe) "safe" since there is no
corresponding escape sequence but that's just luck.

Use either a "raw string" (exactly what you wrote above, but with
a lowercase r in front of the string as in r'C:\Downloads .....)
or switch to using forward slashes as much as possible, since they
will work as long as the shell is not going to see your path
(which is the case with a simple chdir among many other things).

-Peter


From spamtrap at nowhere.net  Thu Apr 15 08:53:22 2004
From: spamtrap at nowhere.net (Steven)
Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2004 13:53:22 +0100
Subject: pyKDE won't build
References: <dRafc.246$Z07.240@news-binary.blueyonder.co.uk>
	<4de76ee2.0404150405.6ac2f50d@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <Yvvfc.10599$Z07.5777@news-binary.blueyonder.co.uk>

David Boddie wrote:

> Steven <spamtrap at nowhere.net> wrote in message
> news:<dRafc.246$Z07.240 at news-binary.blueyonder.co.uk>...
> Unfortunately, PyKDE 3.8 isn't guaranteed to work with versions of SIP or
> PyQt later than SIP 3.8 and PyQt 3.8. A later version of PyKDE which works
> with both KDE 3.2 and more recent versions of PyQt and SIP is scheduled
> for release in the near future. Meanwhile, you might want to try getting
> hold of compatible versions of PyQt and SIP.

> This all sounds familiar. You may want to take a look at the PyKDE mailing
> list archives at
> 
>     http://mats.imk.fraunhofer.de/pipermail/pykde/
> 
> or even subscribe and repost details of your problem there.
> 
> Hopefully, you won't need to understand Python to get it all working,
> although you may wish to look at it more closely once you see what can be
> achieved with Python, PyQt and PyKDE.
> 
> David

I've now got earlier versions of pyQt and sip, which I'll use until a new
version of pyKDE becomes available.

Thanks for the info

Steven


From rjt-usenet at thegrindstone.me.uk  Wed Apr 21 05:36:53 2004
From: rjt-usenet at thegrindstone.me.uk (Richard Taylor)
Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2004 09:36:53 +0000
Subject: Passing argument to setsockopt(socket.SOL_SOCKET, IN.SO_BINDTODEVICE,
	intr)
Message-ID: <408640b7$0$31671$fa0fcedb@lovejoy.zen.co.uk>


Hi

Does anyone know the correct way to pass the 'device' argument to setsockopt
with the SO_BINDTODEVICE flag?

I have tried various methods:

setsockopt(socket.SOL_SOCKET,IN.SO_BINDTODEVICE,"eth0")
setsockopt(socket.SOL_SOCKET,IN.SO_BINDTODEVICE,inet_aton("eth0"))
setsockopt(socket.SOL_SOCKET,IN.SO_BINDTODEVICE,struct.pack("s","eth0"))
setsockopt(socket.SOL_SOCKET,IN.SO_BINDTODEVICE,struct.pack("p","eth0"))

None of these work. I just get a "socket.error: (19, 'No such device')".

I do have an "eth0" device :-)

Many thanks

Richard







From shalabh at cafepy.com  Fri Apr  9 20:18:42 2004
From: shalabh at cafepy.com (Shalabh Chaturvedi)
Date: Fri, 09 Apr 2004 17:18:42 -0700
Subject: Special Method and Class
References: <c544a4$2gnk$1@biggoron.nerim.net>	<20040408184749.GA5285@performancedrivers.com>
	<mailman.467.1081452388.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<c55l7u$oet$1@arcturus.ciril.fr>
Message-ID: <c57ec8$o51$1@sea.gmane.org>

Yermat wrote:

> Jack Diederich wrote:
>> On Thu, Apr 08, 2004 at 02:47:49PM -0400, Jack Diederich wrote:
>> 
>>>On Thu, Apr 08, 2004 at 08:07:01PM +0200, Yermat wrote:
>>>
>>>>Hi all,
>>>>
>>>>Why does special methods not work on class ? Or how to make them work ?

<example snipped>

<useful response snipped>

> I thought that those special method were bounded methods but they are
> not...
> 
>  >>> class toto(object):
> ...     def __init__(self, name):
> ...             self.name = name
> ...     def __repr__(self):
> ...             return "toto('%s')" % self.name
> ...
>  >>>
>  >>> t = toto('titi')
>  >>> repr(t)
> "toto('titi')"
>  >>> t.__repr__
> <function anotherRepr at 0x402dc454>
>  >>> t.__init__
> <bound method toto.__init__ of toto('titi')>

Are you sure you haven't left anything out (like a t.__repr__ = anotherRepr
line somewhere ;) ? On my machine I get:

>>> class C(object):
...     def __repr__(self):
...             return 'C inst'
... 
>>> c = C()
>>> c.__repr__
<bound method C.__repr__ of C inst>
>>>

Yup it's a bound method for sure.

> That also mean that I can't change the __repr__ for only one instance :
>  >>> def anotherRepr(self):
> ...     return "anotherRepr('%s')" % self.name
> ...
>  >>>
>  >>> t.__repr__ = anotherRepr
>  >>>
>  >>> repr(t)
> "toto('titi')"
> 
> 
> Is it really consistent ?
> Should'nt it be also bounded methods even for clas instead of using
> MetaClass ?

Actually this has less to do with bound methods and more to do with how
repr() works. Simple formula for new-style objects:

repr(x) calls x.__class__.__repr__(x)

so repr(C) will call C.__class__.__repr__(C) which is really
type.__repr__(C). 

Also, repr(c) will call c.__class__.__repr__(c), which is really
C.__repr__(c).

If both repr(C) and repr(c) called C.__repr__(), *that* would be
inconsistent (how would one implement C.__repr__()? for the instance or the
class?). A simple solution to be able to override special methods on
instances might be to do (not tested):

class C(object):
    def __repr__(self):
        instrepr = getattr(self, '_instrepr', None)
        if instrepr:
            return instrepr(self)
        else:
            return "default repr"

and then define a function (like anotherRepr above) and assign it to
c._instrepr.

> Yermat

HTH,
Shalabh




From fma at doe.carleton.ca  Tue Apr 13 16:49:36 2004
From: fma at doe.carleton.ca (Fred Ma)
Date: 13 Apr 2004 20:49:36 GMT
Subject: Once-only evaluation of default parameter values function 
 definitions
References: <407B79D7.424F65A1@doe.carleton.ca>
Message-ID: <407C5259.E04E87C0@doe.carleton.ca>


Brian, Sean,

Thanks for the clarification and example.  I'll need a bit more
time to get my head around the example, but I'm pretty clear about
what's happening in the situation of default values for function
arguments, as well as the idiom to avoid sharing default values
across function calls.

Fred
-- 
Fred Ma
Dept. of Electronics, Carleton University
1125 Colonel By Drive, Ottawa, Ontario
Canada, K1S 5B6


From nicksjacobson at yahoo.com  Thu Apr 29 18:03:24 2004
From: nicksjacobson at yahoo.com (Nick Jacobson)
Date: 29 Apr 2004 15:03:24 -0700
Subject: static keyword
References: <mailman.113.1083254129.25742.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <f8097096.0404291403.400304ee@posting.google.com>

Yes, that is excellent.  Thank you very much. :)

The good news: you can reset all your "static" data whenever you want,
by calling foo().  Can't do that in C.

The bad news: I just hope I don't forget and call foo() instead of
g.next().
I would rather the command foo() by default call the next iteration,
and, say, foo().reset() would recall the function from scratch.  But
that's neither here nor there..

"Robert Brewer" <fumanchu at amor.org> wrote in message news:<mailman.113.1083254129.25742.python-list at python.org>...
> Nick Jacobson wrote:
> > I believe the following "static" command would be useful in Python.
> > 
> > def foo():
> >     static i = [10, 11]
> >     static firstcall = True
> >     if firstcall:
> >         print "First pass"
> >         firstcall = False
> >     i[0] += 1
> >     print i[0]
> > foo()
> > foo()
> > 
> > 
> > This would output:
> > 
> > First pass
> > 11
> > 12
> 
> Bah. All these old fogies with their default arg hacks, when Nick
> *clearly* wants a generator:
> 
> >>> def foo():
> ... 	i = 10
> ... 	print "First pass"
> ... 	while True:
> ... 		i += 1
> ... 		yield i
> ... 		
> >>> g = foo()
> >>> g.next()
> First pass
> 11
> >>> g.next()
> 12
> 
> 
> Robert Brewer
> MIS
> Amor Ministries
> fumanchu at amor.org


From agriff at tin.it  Sun Apr 25 19:12:40 2004
From: agriff at tin.it (Andrea Griffini)
Date: Sun, 25 Apr 2004 23:12:40 GMT
Subject: Andreas' practical language comparison
References: <c6glig$phm$07$4@news.t-online.com>
	<TrGdnVUrJdjsahbdRVn-iQ@powergate.ca>
	<c6gu81$pk6$05$2@news.t-online.com>
	<408c23b8$0$41746$5fc3050@dreader2.news.tiscali.nl>
Message-ID: <5ago80thlgfrsrapol1lldi2cq0uulto4n@4ax.com>

On Sun, 25 Apr 2004 22:46:48 +0200, "GerritM" <gmuller at worldonline.nl>
wrote:

>I really would like to see the linecount. I do belive that it is one of the
>indicators of the power of the language and its batteries.

Then at least you should be talking of the same problem and
of the same solution to the problem. For example the Delphi
solution for the 8 queens problem is completely different
from the ALGOL one (and I must say IMO the Delphi solution
is quite terrible from an algorithm point of view), comparing
a linecount for that that with a linecount for a totally
different solution is just nonsense.

However this create problems for very different approaches;
implementing a certain algorithm in prolog and comparing it
with the same algorithm in C has any meaning ? If say one
solution uses generators (may be heavily and with backtracking,
for example in Icon) how can you implement the same solution
on a language that has no generator concept at all ?
Even if you manage to do that, what's the point in finding
that you needed a lot of lines of code to do it ?

>Somehow it would be nice to have a figure for "readability", but I
>don't have a clue how to generate such a figure in an automatic way.
>Maybe you need some panel of experts that gives a readability figure?

I'm very new to python, but anyway this is my solution to 8
queen's problem:

------------------------ PYTHON --------------------------
import sets

def solve(base,        # starting position, as a list of cols
          free_cols,   # list of columns not yet taken
          free_diag1,  # list of diagonals not yet taken
          free_diag2): # list of counter diagonals not yet taken
  if free_cols:
    row = len(base)
    for i,col in enumerate(free_cols):
      d1 = row + col
      d2 = row - col
      if d1 in free_diag1 and d2 in free_diag2:
        solve(base+[col],
              free_cols[0:i]+free_cols[i+1:],
              free_diag1.difference([d1]),
              free_diag2.difference([d2]))
  else:
    print base

n = 8
solve([],
      range(1,n+1),
      sets.Set(range(1+1,n+n+1)),
      sets.Set(range(1-n,n-1+1)))
-----------------------------------------------------------

and this is a solution to the same problem I wrote in C
some time ago while having fun in trying to use as few
characters as possible...

----------------------- C -------------------------------
char n[39],q=7;void s(){char*x=n+7,*e,*d;while((*x+*(
e=x+9+q)+*(d=x+31-q)?0:(*x=*e=*d='1'+q,q--?s(),1:puts
(n),q++,*x=*e=*d=0))|x--!=n);}main(){s();return 0;}
---------------------------------------------------------

Does this mean that Python is less expressive ? that
C is less clear ? Or just means one program has been
written trying to be expressive and the other trying
to be compact ?

If I run that Delphi solution for the 8 queens problem
should I conclude that Python is faster than Delphi ?


Andrea


From theller at python.net  Tue Apr  6 10:08:40 2004
From: theller at python.net (Thomas Heller)
Date: Tue, 06 Apr 2004 16:08:40 +0200
Subject: GUI Frameworks in Python?
References: <mailman.102.1080629227.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<930ba99a.0404030246.786455f5@posting.google.com>
	<8ef9bea6.0404041009.26ae2683@posting.google.com>
	<c4tddj$2mjvdq$1@ID-169208.news.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <oeq542s7.fsf@python.net>

> Hung Jung Lu wrote:
>> Can someone outline some differences/advantages of PyGTK vs. wxPython?
>

Greg Ewing <greg at cosc.canterbury.ac.nz>:
> Having had an intensive experience with both recently, I
> can give you some of my impressions.
>
> I started a project using wxPython, having heard good things
> about it. At first it seemed all right, but as things progressed
> I found myself becoming more and more frustrated with it.
> Everything seemed to be just a little more complicated than
> it needed to be, and I kept on running into bugs, limitations and
> strange behaviours that I had to work around.
>
> As an experiment, I tried re-writing it to use PyGtk, to find
> out what it would be like. It turned out to be a much more
> pleasant experience. The wrapping is very straightforward and
> Pythonic, and everything Just Works the way I expect. I've
> yet to encounter a single bug or unreasonable limitation.
>
>> A first look at PyGTK shows me a more Unix-like look-and-feel. On the
>> other hand, wxPython on Windows does look very much like any other
>> Windows applications.
>
> It doesn't look quite the same as native apps on Windows, but
> for my purposes it's close enough. If precise Windows authenticity
> is important to you, you might have to use wxPython or something else
> that uses native Windows widgets.

I still think that a native windows toolkit written in pure Python,
based on venster, maybe, with a 'pythonic' api on top would be a killer.

Thomas




From edcogburn at hotpop.com  Thu Apr  1 07:22:04 2004
From: edcogburn at hotpop.com (Ed Cogburn)
Date: Thu, 01 Apr 2004 07:22:04 -0500
Subject: Python Documentation Blows!
In-Reply-To: <de6dnW6CZuRCa_fdRVn-jg@powergate.ca>
References: <mailman.135.1080674367.20120.python-list@python.org>	<20040330181802.04141.00000304@mb-m17.aol.com>	<mailman.150.1080693147.20120.python-list@python.org>	<c4eq0e$2g6ov4$1@ID-217427.news.uni-berlin.de>
	<de6dnW6CZuRCa_fdRVn-jg@powergate.ca>
Message-ID: <c4h1gk$fe$1@sea.gmane.org>

Peter Hansen wrote:
> anton muhin wrote:
> 
>> Maybe just start a wiki based on the current documentation? It 
>> shouldn't be too difficult, should it?
> 
> 
> What part of http://wiki.wxpython.org/ is not adequate?  ;-)


The poster is referring to Python, not wxPython.  I like the idea myself very 
much.  My biggest problem with the official Python docs, is that there is too 
much space wasted on formal definitions and not enough space on actual 
examples using valid code.  To anyone without a complete and formal CS 
education, the use of the formal syntax to specify Python's syntax amounts to 
describing one new language using another new language - not exactly helpful. 
  :) An 8 to 10 line example is worth a page of BNF (or whatever), IMO, and 
the difference is that the simple but real-world example works just as well 
for the CS graduate as it does for the hobbyist programmer.  A wiki site for 
this would have meant I could have provided some example code for the things I 
had trouble with, once I figured them out myself, it would at least make it 
easier for a lot more people to participate on the creation of Python's docs. 
  I like Python very much, but the truth is, had it not been for the 2 
third-party books on Python that I have (Bible and Complete Reference), I 
might not be using Python now.




From herrn at gmx.net  Sun Apr  4 10:04:29 2004
From: herrn at gmx.net (Marco Herrn)
Date: 4 Apr 2004 14:04:29 GMT
Subject: Difference between default arguments and keyword arguments
References: <UmTbc.9904$NL4.4809@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net>
	<406FFEAF.3080400@netscape.net>
Message-ID: <c4p4ld$2j1tnb$2@ID-165840.news.uni-berlin.de>

On 2004-04-04, DoubleM <DoublemPI at netscape.net> wrote:
> All arguments are keyword arguments.  They may or may not have a default 
> value.  In your example, voltage is a keyword argument, but it has no 
> default.

But what does this mean?:

    >>> __import__(name="eggs")
    Traceback (most recent call last):
      File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
    TypeError: __import__() takes no keyword arguments


Is it because the other arguments are optional? The function is defined
as follows:

    __import__( name[, globals[, locals[, fromlist]]])

Marco
-- 
Marco Herrn             herrn at gmx.net
(GnuPG/PGP-signed and crypted mail preferred)
Key ID: 0x94620736



From FBatista at uniFON.com.ar  Mon Apr 26 11:27:30 2004
From: FBatista at uniFON.com.ar (Batista, Facundo)
Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2004 12:27:30 -0300
Subject: how to add new print %b format to python?
Message-ID: <A128D751272CD411BC9200508BC2194D033838FF@escpl.tcp.com.ar>

[Rusty Shackleford]

#- part is done, but where do I go to tinker with the python 
#- interpreter to
#- add this new format?

You can download the source code from SourceForge with anonymous CVS or
browse it at: http://cvs.sourceforge.net/viewcvs.py/python/python/dist/src/


#- Please don't argue with me about whether this is an advisable goal in
#- itself -- I'm using it as a method to learn about the 
#- internals of the
#- python language.

I think this would be a nice thing to have. The best you can do is write a
PEP to propose the change. If a lot like it, this will be in the language in
the future.

.	Facundo





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From maxm at mxm.dk  Thu Apr 15 03:27:07 2004
From: maxm at mxm.dk (Max M)
Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2004 09:27:07 +0200
Subject: Aspect Programming Module
In-Reply-To: <8ef9bea6.0404142155.90b41ef@posting.google.com>
References: <84fc4588.0404140106.3fa0c55@posting.google.com>
	<slrnc7q1ss.1aa.alf@largo.fayauffre.org>
	<cb035744.0404141130.170f51c4@posting.google.com>
	<8ef9bea6.0404142155.90b41ef@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <407E394B.2050709@mxm.dk>

Hung Jung Lu wrote:

> Python does not even have codeblocks. So how can you say AOP is not
> needed for Python programmers?

I am probably rather dense, but I have not seen aspect oriented examples 
  that could not have been done with simple mixins.

Isn't it needed in Java because it doesn't have multiple inheritance?


regards Max M


From ramagnus at t-online.de  Sat Apr 24 19:57:32 2004
From: ramagnus at t-online.de (Rolf Magnus)
Date: Sun, 25 Apr 2004 01:57:32 +0200
Subject: python extension, -pthreads and speed
References: <4fd1aa5e.0404222336.2a1347a8@posting.google.com>
	<c6ap4q$c95$1@s1.read.news.oleane.net>
Message-ID: <c6euqn$in7$04$3@news.t-online.com>

Pedro Rodriguez wrote:

> If your extension use IOs (fgets, sprintf...) or others standard
> library calls, they may be affected by the fact that Python is build
> with multithreading enabled, on so all those API start using mutexes
> to be thread safe, thus the extract cost.

Another candidate for such slowdowns is malloc.



From chrish at cryptocard.com  Tue Apr  6 08:40:18 2004
From: chrish at cryptocard.com (Chris Herborth)
Date: Tue, 06 Apr 2004 08:40:18 -0400
Subject: Does Python compete with Java?
In-Reply-To: <Xns94C322B5A34ECcpl19ghumspamgourmet@62.153.159.134>
References: <8b336527.0404051337.51bb4a1b@posting.google.com>
	<1073su4etm95p35@news.supernews.com>
	<roy-094613.21022405042004@reader1.panix.com>
	<Xns94C322B5A34ECcpl19ghumspamgourmet@62.153.159.134>
Message-ID: <osxcc.2748$BF2.522847@news20.bellglobal.com>

Harald Massa wrote:

> Roy Smith <roy at panix.com> wrote in news:roy-094613.21022405042004
> @reader1.panix.com:
> 
>>http://www-users.cs.york.ac.uk/~susan/joke/foot.htm
> 
>>They don't have one for Python, but I expect it would be something like 
>>this:
> 
> I think the most common solution is:
> 
>>How to Shoot Yourself In the Foot
> 
> Python
> you discover that Guido used his time machine to shoot you in the foot 
> years ago

My experience:

Post to comp.lang.python:

"I'm looking for a good scripting language, and Python's got some great 
features, but that syntactically-relevant whitespace thing just seems wrong..."

Replies:

"Don't worry about it, in practice you'll see that you write code that way 
anyway and it's very natural..."

Me:

"I don't know..."

[Wanders off for a few months.  Returns.]

"Python rules!  Best scripting language EVAR!"

-- 
Chris Herborth                                     chrish at cryptocard.com
Documentation Overlord, CRYPTOCard Corp.      http://www.cryptocard.com/
Never send a monster to do the work of an evil scientist.
Postatem obscuri lateris nescitis.


From aku at europe.com  Wed Apr  7 05:26:33 2004
From: aku at europe.com (aku)
Date: 07 Apr 2004 09:26:33 GMT
Subject: design by contract versus doctest
References: <407174ea$0$5066$4d4ebb8e@news.nl.uu.net>
	<4072977b$0$1699$afc38c87@news.easynet.co.uk>
	<opr51bkaaeyxrafp@nntphost.dur.ac.uk>
	<4072a7d3$0$23314$afc38c87@news.easynet.co.uk>
	<opr51ffat9yxrafp@nntphost.dur.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <4073c949$0$5066$4d4ebb8e@news.nl.uu.net>

On 2004-04-06, Colin Blackburn <colin.blackburn at durham.ac.uk> wrote:

> > Getting the require section to pass is no guarantee that the  
> > post-conditions (ensure section) will be met, the do section is code  
> > like anything else and may get things wrong.
> 
>  In correctly developed DbC that is precisely what is guaranteed. The  
>  post-condition is *guaranteed* if the pre-condition is met. 

Exactly! postcondition is guaranteed if precondition is true.
And in addition to that - and that was part of what I was trying
to say in the original post - in 
www.python.org/doc/current/lib/module-doctest.html, the 3 tests after
the line "import math" shouldn't be necessary because they should be
part of the precondition in the doc string if DBC was applied.




From ed-no at spam-eepatents.com  Sat Apr 24 13:29:28 2004
From: ed-no at spam-eepatents.com (Ed Suominen)
Date: Sat, 24 Apr 2004 10:29:28 -0700
Subject: [ANN] XPN 0.2.6
References: <7kbd6c.fu1.ln@nemesis.homeinvalid>
Message-ID: <luidndEPdYphPhfdRVn-tA@centurytel.net>

I was very impressed by this application. It's a great testimony to the
power of Python.

-Ed Suominen

Nemesis wrote:

> XPN is a newsreader written in Python+GTK with unicode support.
> 
> Major Changes in this release:
> 
> *Added Import/Export newsrc file.
> *Added autoencode feature. Now XPN automatically chooses the best
> encodig for outgoing articles.
> *Fixed another bug in threads building
> 
> Links:
> http://sf.net/projects/xpn
> http://xpn.altervista.org  (italian)
> 



From arigo at tunes.org  Sat Apr  3 19:59:40 2004
From: arigo at tunes.org (Armin Rigo)
Date: Sun, 4 Apr 2004 00:59:40 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Python is faster than C
References: <406F0907.96F37EA1@tunes.org>
	<slrnc6ud7b.4u7.joe@gate.notcharles.ca>
Message-ID: <406F6020.F1361B55@tunes.org>

Hi,

Joe Mason wrote:
> > The reason is that the C implementation must use a generic '<' operator
> > to compare elements, while the Psyco version quickly figures out that it
> > can expect to find ints in the list; it still has to check this
> > assumption, but this is cheap and then the comparison is done with a
> > single machine instruction.
> 
> Why can't the C implementation do the same thing?

You could, if you wanted to optimize specifically lists of integers.  If
you did the result would probably be really fast.  The problem is that
you can only really special-case so many types: the C code has to deal
with all cases without knowing which cases are likely.  The Psyco
version quickly figures out that for this list it pays off to make a
special case for integers; with another list, the machine code would be
different, special-cased differently.

However, in most real examples, you are not sorting a list of integers
but of something more complex anyway, where the built-in sort wins
easily.  My message was intended as a long-term hint that maybe, at some
point, the built-in sort will actually be more often faster than the C
one if rewritten in Python.  The advantage would then be that (as Psyco
does in a limited fashion) you can specialize the code for the
particular kind of list you are dealing with.


Armin


From pxlpluker at cfl.rr.com  Fri Apr 30 16:58:30 2004
From: pxlpluker at cfl.rr.com (pxlpluker)
Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2004 16:58:30 -0400
Subject: ms compiler
Message-ID: <4092BDF6.6040008@cfl.rr.com>

sense M$ has just realesed there C++ compiler as a free download is 
python compilable with it.
I am just C stupid.

fred





From rnichol_rrc at yahoo.com  Sun Apr 18 00:32:01 2004
From: rnichol_rrc at yahoo.com (Reid Nichol)
Date: Sat, 17 Apr 2004 23:32:01 -0500
Subject: os.system help
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0404172009580.3096-100000@e5-05.ee.ualberta.ca>
References: <78lgc.3445$AL1.7744@news1.mts.net>
	<Pine.LNX.4.44.0404172009580.3096-100000@e5-05.ee.ualberta.ca>
Message-ID: <Ywngc.3629$AL1.8293@news1.mts.net>

Unfortunately PIL only writes .eps files.  I was going to get the users 
to install gs but of course it's install directory is variable.  I've 
tried using shortcuts but that didn't work.

Since most of my intended users use windows only...



Grzegorz Dostatni wrote:
> Cheers.
> 
> In short ghostscript is not installed by default on windows. You can
> install it yourself (http://www.cs.wisc.edu/~ghost/doc/AFPL/get814.htm)
> and install. You could also try to package it in your program somehow (for
> example including the binary in your program directory). I'm not sure if
> it will work properly though.
> 
> I don't think there is anything installed by default on windows that can
> read .ps files.
> 
> You could also try another approach. I am not entirely sure, but I think
> that Python Imaging Library supports writing/reading .ps files.
> 
> Greg
> 
> 
> 
> Advice is what we ask for when we already know the answer but wish we
> didn't.
>           -- Erica Jong (How to Save Your Own Life, 1977)
> 
> 
> On Sat, 17 Apr 2004, Reid Nichol wrote:
> 
> 
>>Hello,
>>   I have made a program that works wonderfully on OpenBSD but it uses
>>os.system to get ghostscript to convert ps to jpeg.  But, I wish this
>>program to run on Windows as well.  Is there any way I can snag where
>>the gs executable is on Windows?  What it is named?  And so forth.
>>
>>
> 
> 



From rjgruet at yahoo.com  Sat Apr 10 20:04:41 2004
From: rjgruet at yahoo.com (Richard Gruet)
Date: Sun, 11 Apr 2004 02:04:41 +0200
Subject: new-style class instance check
References: <mailman.516.1081639807.20120.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <c5a23h$geb$1@apollon.grec.isp.9tel.net>

Robert

Thank you for your suggestion.
But unfortunately, isNewStyleClassInstance(o) must return False for
*everything but* an instance of a new-style class. If o is e.g. a function:
def foo(): pass
foo.__class__.rmo
<built-in method mro of type object at 0x1E0BA9E0>

so isNewStyleClassInstance(foo) would return True !

Richard

"Robert Brewer" <fumanchu at amor.org> wrote in message
news:mailman.516.1081639807.20120.python-list at python.org...
Richard Gruet wrote:
> How to determine that an object o is for sure an instance of
> a new-style
> class, without knowing of which specific class ?
> That is, if I define a function:
>
> def isNewStyleClassInstance(o):
>     pass    ## to be completed
>
> .. I want to pass the following test:
>
> def C: pass
> def CNew(object): pass

I assume you meant "class C" instead of "def C" ;) If it's new-style,
it'll have an "mro" attribute:

>>> class OldStyle: pass
...
>>> class NewStyle(object): pass
...
>>> NewStyle.mro
<built-in method mro of type object at 0x00E88F38>
>>> NewStyle.mro()
[<class '__main__.NewStyle'>, <type 'object'>]
>>> OldStyle.mro()
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<interactive input>", line 1, in ?
AttributeError: class OldStyle has no attribute 'mro'


Hope that helps,

Robert Brewer
MIS
Amor Ministries
fumanchu at amor.org




From eric_brunel at despammed.com  Tue Apr 27 03:59:17 2004
From: eric_brunel at despammed.com (Eric Brunel)
Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2004 09:59:17 +0200
Subject: Question on creating Tkinter Widgets
References: <jcijc.3852$g31.1644@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <c6l3ds$h0i$1@news-reader2.wanadoo.fr>

Adonis wrote:
> I am creating some widgets by inheriting from Tkinter.Frame and populating
> the frame with whatever the widget will be then creating certain
> attributes/methods to be accessed later. My question is, is this a poper way
> to create widgets or should I take a different approach?
> 
> Any help is greatly appreciated.
> 
> Adonis

Most Tkinter "megawidgets" are created by either specializing Tkinter.Frame or 
Tkinter.Canvas, so it seems to be the way to go. It has at least a major 
advantage: the widgets you create directly inherit the basic behaviour of all 
Tkinter widgets, so you can directly pack them, grid them, or whatever else, 
without having a single line of code to write. I made some Tkinter widgets 
myself and always used this approach; up to this time, it worked pretty well.

HTH
-- 
- Eric Brunel <eric (underscore) brunel (at) despammed (dot) com> -
PragmaDev : Real Time Software Development Tools - http://www.pragmadev.com



From fumanchu at amor.org  Tue Apr 13 23:23:09 2004
From: fumanchu at amor.org (Robert Brewer)
Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2004 20:23:09 -0700
Subject: Simple discussion of python cgi approaches?
Message-ID: <DE1CF2B4FEC4A342BF62B6B2B334601E561FF5@opus.amorhq.net>

Kylotan wrote about mod_python:
> Yet I'm guessing it requires a significant amount of special-case code
> to
> use its own API? Looking at the manual it seems non-trivial to get it
> to work with scripts that were originally written to consume stdin and
> emit to stdout.

Then later...
> The main problem I face is that I don't know what platform my scripts
> will
> eventually run on. I may not have the ability to install extra
> software so I
> need to keep my scripts close to the CGI standard. That is, one file
> per script,
> using the cgi module for form processing and print for output. I don't
> mind
> having to redirect stdout or call these scripts indirectly instead of
> via
> their __main__ functions, but writing to specific APIs (beyond a small
> wrapper
> layer, of course) is not an option at the moment.

The wrappers can be quite small. Have a look at my small wrappers for
ASP/IIS and mod_python/Apache (which I just dicovered is the first
Google hit for "IIS mod_python" ;)

http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Cookbook/Python/Recipe/225299

I write apps that drop in on either platform. I often test by turning on
Apache, running the site for a while, then turn off Apache, turn on IIS,
and keep going. Total downtime--about 15 seconds.


Robert Brewer
MIS
Amor Ministries
fumanchu at amor.org



From ramen at lackingtalent.com  Fri Apr 30 13:52:03 2004
From: ramen at lackingtalent.com (Dave Benjamin)
Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2004 17:52:03 -0000
Subject: Simple prototyping in Python
References: <slrnc938vm.1v0.ramen@lackingtalent.com>
	<69cbbef2.0404300855.20dd436b@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <slrnc9557e.beh.ramen@lackingtalent.com>

In article <69cbbef2.0404300855.20dd436b at posting.google.com>, has wrote:
> Dave Benjamin <ramen at lackingtalent.com> wrote in message news:<slrnc938vm.1v0.ramen at lackingtalent.com>...
>> The recent conversation on prototype-based OOP and the Prothon project has
>> been interesting. I've been playing around with the idea for awhile now,
>> actually, since I do a lot of programming in JavaScript/ActionScript. I feel
>> like people are focusing too much on the "prototype chain", which to me is
>> mainly an attempt at reintroducing inheritance. 
> 
> It doesn't even do that; at least not in the sense that class-based OO
> defines it, where inheritance merely describes the initial state for
> every object created from a class.

But that is how it is used, anyway. See any textbook describing OO
programming in JavaScript. The caveats are also typically described, and
other hacks like the "__proto__" attribute (which is the object's prototype
object, not to be confused with the constructor's prototype object,
"prototype") are used to exercise more control (or confusion) over the matter.

> In a proto-OO system all objects are _completely_ anonymous*, having
> no 'class' and all being of the same type, 'object'. In this respect,
> they're just like strings, lists, dicts, or any other 'anonymous'
> type; a list is a list is a list, for example, regardless of how it is
> used.

Not necessarily. In JavaScript, you can still do "instanceof", for example.

>> JavaScript has a syntax
>> for this:
>> 
>> var o = {a: 5, b: 6}
> 
> Looks on the surface like AppleScript's record type, which is roughly
> analogous to C structs... and useless for anything more than
> struct-style usage. While I did read about JS programming in the
> dim-n-distant past - it was one of a number of languages I looked at
> when learning proto-OO on AS, which lacked any decent learning
> material on the topic - I've pretty much forgotten everything since.
> So can I ask: is the JS structure more flexible; e.g. can one add
> functions to it to operate like methods on the other data in the
> structure? Or does it have to provide a second structure for proto-OO
> use, as AS does?

Sure! JavaScript supports function literals that are true closures. In fact,
this feature can be used to support private data, which has been described
in some detail by Douglas Crockford, here:

http://www.crockford.com/javascript/private.html

The same technique can be accomplished by Python, though it'd be really nice
to have code blocks or function literals that accept statements.

-- 
.:[ dave benjamin: ramen/[sp00] -:- spoomusic.com -:- ramenfest.com ]:.
:  please talk to your son or daughter about parametric polymorphism. :


From roy at panix.com  Thu Apr 15 17:32:59 2004
From: roy at panix.com (Roy Smith)
Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2004 17:32:59 -0400
Subject: CamelCase versus wide_names (Prothon)
References: <UHxfc.9323$dZ1.3740@fed1read04>
	<407ec022$0$54153$1b2cd167@news.wanadoo.nl>
	<roy-C4FD90.13444715042004@reader2.panix.com>
	<b9Afc.9345$dZ1.7703@fed1read04>
	<mailman.660.1082061118.20120.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <roy-D60ACC.17325915042004@reader2.panix.com>

Jan Dries <jan.dries at dcube-resource.be> wrote:
> But when someone claims 100% of Python users 
> want camelCase, I cannot but speak up.

I hope this doesn't turn into a flame war, but I agree with Jan.  One of 
my pet peeves is expressing a minority opinion ("I want X") and then 
hearing my opinion dismissed with a statement like "Everybody wants Y".  
I'm willing to be outvoted, but I sure won't stand for being ignored.

I happen to be one of the people who expressed the majority opinion, 
i.e. in favor of DromiDaryOrthoGraphy, but it's still unfair to say that 
100% of Python users agree with me.


From imbosol at aerojockey.com  Wed Apr 28 21:54:13 2004
From: imbosol at aerojockey.com (Carl Banks)
Date: 28 Apr 2004 18:54:13 -0700
Subject: Is Perl *that* good?
References: <c6ich0$c5mee$1@ID-205437.news.uni-berlin.de>
	<ECCjc.30580$Vp5.25085@fe2.columbus.rr.com>
	<roy-15912E.20355127042004@reader2.panix.com>
	<XwEjc.31513$Vp5.16074@fe2.columbus.rr.com>
	<108v74768o9sb9f@corp.supernews.com>
	<60dfb6f6.0404281459.21675af4@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <60dfb6f6.0404281754.473deae9@posting.google.com>

imbosol at aerojockey.com (Carl Banks) wrote in message news:<60dfb6f6.0404281459.21675af4 at posting.google.com>...
> In file x.pl:
> 
>     sub muck() {
>       $_ = "sucker\n";
>     }
> 
>     while(<>) {
>       if (/^abc/) {
>         muck();
>         print $_;
>       }
>     }
> 
> Command line:
> 
>     echo abcdefg | perl x.pl
> 
> Output:
> 
>     sucker
> 
> 
> I had actually thought it restored $_.
> It never ceases to amaze me how bad Perl is.

Wait a minute, Perl does restore the regexp implicits.

In file x.pl:

    sub muck() {
      $_ = sucker;
      /sucker/;
    }

    while(<>) {
      if (/^abc/) {
        muck();
        print $&;
        print "\n";
      }
    }

Command line:

    echo abcdefg | perl x.pl

Output:

    abc


Perl has failed to amaze me at just how bad
it is this one time.  :)


-- 
CARL BANKS


From deetsNOSPAM at web.de  Wed Apr 28 12:34:35 2004
From: deetsNOSPAM at web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Wed, 28 Apr 2004 18:34:35 +0200
Subject: PyChecker does STATIC analysis?
References: <3064b51d.0404280728.5fb7539e@posting.google.com>
	<c6olur$v13$00$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <c6om98$v13$00$2@news.t-online.com>

Diez B. Roggisch wrote:

>>> xrange = lambda x: [1,2,3,4,5]

Oops - that was supposed to be

range = lambda x: [1,2,3,4,5]

of course... I'm so used to prefering xrange over range, I confused
myself...

-- 
Regards,

Diez B. Roggisch


From NAIGIMSESRIMAIL at gims.com  Wed Apr  7 04:46:59 2004
From: NAIGIMSESRIMAIL at gims.com (GroupShield for Exchange (ESRIMAIL))
Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2004 10:46:59 +0200 
Subject: ALERT -  GroupShield ticket number OB87_1081327614_ESRIMAIL_3 was
	generated
Message-ID: <B06B8FEF47ACD7119E720040F428459102124EA0@ESRIMAIL>

Action Taken:
The message was blocked because of its subject.

To:
python-list at python.org <python-list at python.org>

From:
jason willows <apocalypznow at yahoo.com>

Sent:
-499706240,29629564

Subject:
test

Attachment Details:-

Attachment Name: N/A
File: Infected.msg
Infected? No
Repaired? No
Blocked? Yes
Deleted? No
Virus Name: 



	
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From solution88pro at hotmail.com  Mon Apr  5 04:34:34 2004
From: solution88pro at hotmail.com (Senthoorkumaran Punniamoorthy)
Date: Mon, 05 Apr 2004 14:34:34 +0600
Subject: Can someone give me a short explanation?
Message-ID: <BAY8-F112GNfi0JrIwb0002b662@hotmail.com>

I found this code in the book text processing with Python. But having little 
difficulty understanding how exactly it works and what should be passed as 
argument? Can someone decode this for me please?

apply_each = lambda fns, args=[]: map(apply, fns, [args]*len(fns))

Senthoor

_________________________________________________________________
STOP MORE SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* 
http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail




From amk at amk.ca  Fri Apr 23 09:20:59 2004
From: amk at amk.ca (A.M. Kuchling)
Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2004 08:20:59 -0500
Subject: Why we will use obj$func() often
References: <d2Uhc.22272$dZ1.1600@fed1read04> <84Uhc.22278$dZ1.5087@fed1read04>
	<mailman.927.1082665370.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<8AWhc.23114$dZ1.11070@fed1read04> <40883BFE.B381518A@alcyone.com>
	<27_hc.23801$dZ1.2716@fed1read04> <40887145.789A2FE8@alcyone.com>
Message-ID: <WqWdnfW7RpSmhRTdRVn-uw@speakeasy.net>

On Thu, 22 Apr 2004 18:28:37 -0700, 
	Erik Max Francis <max at alcyone.com> wrote:
> Being a fan of Io, I think prototype-languages are interesting.  Even so
> far, I lost interest in looking at the actual main feature of Prothon,
> after seeing all the extra baggage that was brought on in unecessary
> stylistic changes.

There's a rule in experiments that you should only change one thing at a
time, trying to answer a single question with each change. Prothon started
out asking two questions:

* Does implementing an interpreter on top of the Apache Portable Runtime 
  for the sake of free threading work?  (Presumably the answer is yes, since
  Prothon does run.  I haven't seen performance numbers on Prothon, though.)
* Is prototyping a workable replacement for a class-based object system?
  Unclear, since I don't know that anyone has written sizable systems
  in Prothon yet.
  
The problem is that if you then make a whole bunch of additional changes --
a 'with' statement, changing the rules for indenting, changing the names of
various built-in methods -- it becomes harder for Python users to try out
the new language for a while because there are more changes they have to
cope with.  After a certain point the number of crossover users dwindles to
near-zero.  None of these changes is critical or results in a 100% 
improvement in functionality (or even a 10% one), but their collective 
effect is to make the distance too great to cross conveniently; you might as
well start a new language with a blank sheet of paper at that point.  

--amk


From herrn at gmx.net  Sun Apr  4 07:30:17 2004
From: herrn at gmx.net (Marco Herrn)
Date: 4 Apr 2004 11:30:17 GMT
Subject: user authentication via /etc/passwd|/etc/shadow
Message-ID: <c4ork9$2kssti$1@ID-165840.news.uni-berlin.de>

Hi,

I want to write a program where I authenticate users via the standard
unix system accounts. I didn't find a module providing this
functionality. Is there such a module available? If not, how can I
achieve this?

Marco

-- 
Marco Herrn             herrn at gmx.net
(GnuPG/PGP-signed and crypted mail preferred)
Key ID: 0x94620736



From deetsNOSPAM at web.de  Tue Apr 27 14:31:19 2004
From: deetsNOSPAM at web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2004 20:31:19 +0200
Subject: Implement new editing format/through-the-web site management?
References: <997a06e0.0404270805.72b15909@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <c6m8ob$so$01$2@news.t-online.com>

pugnatio2 at yahoo.com wrote:

> Hi,
> 
> I'm a Zope newbie but an experienced Python programmer. Could someone
> suggest a general approach for the two parts below?
> 
> 1) I'd like to build a system that stores XML documents in the ZODB
> and allows them to be edited through the web in a new text format. The
> format is similar to StructuredText and can be translated to XML and
> vice versa, using Python methods.
> 
> 2) The second part of system would be to maintain the site map as an
> XML document, also in the ZODB, and allow it to be edited using a
> tree-like HTML form or javascript interface, so that the structure of
> the entire site could be managed interactively from a single page.
> Elements in the site map XML would point to the IDs of XML objects
> stored in the ZODB. These pointers could be moved around by editing
> the site map. The Zope folder hierarchy would not drive the structure
> of the site, the XML document would.
> 

afaik zope has a xml-export/import facility that might you help on this. The
zms publishing system abstracts from this and offers a even simpler format.
Thus the objects aren't stored as xml itself, but you can access it that
way in both directions.

Then your second point is more or less zope standard - you can use the zope
management interface to cut and paste objects to rearange them. 
-- 
Regards,

Diez B. Roggisch


From walter at livinglogic.de  Tue Apr 20 09:03:07 2004
From: walter at livinglogic.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Walter_D=F6rwald?=)
Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 15:03:07 +0200
Subject: when does issubclass fail?
In-Reply-To: <m2n05by4fq.fsf@catbert.dok.org>
References: <m2n05by4fq.fsf@catbert.dok.org>
Message-ID: <1082466101.191546@homer.tmt.de>

Chris Green wrote:

> Heyas folks,
> 
> When does issubclass fail?  That's a loaded question so here's my test
> case (also available at http://cmg.dok.org/code/classimports.tar.gz):
> 
> directory structure:
> 
> ./test.py
> ./d/__init__.py
> ./d/b.py
> ./c/__init__.py
> ./c/a.py
> 
> #--------[a.py]---------
> class A(object):
>     pass
> #------[end a.py]-------
> 
> #--------[b.py]---------
> import sys
> sys.path.append("/home/cmg/src/python/classtest/a")
> class B(a.A):
>     pass
> #------[end b.py]-------
> 
> #--------[test.py]------
> import c.a
> import d.b
> print issubclass(d.b.B,c.a.A)
> #--------[end test.py]--
> 
> issubclass(d.b.B,c.a.A)  => False
> 
> I'm trying to figure out why this is failing. My guess is that there
> are two distinct imports of a.A in memory though I can't come up with
> a simple test case that makes this happen without manipulating
> sys.path.

The simplest demo for this problem is importing the __main__ script
a second time as a module:
-----[foo.py]-----
class A:
    pass

import foo

print issubclass(A, foo.A)
------------------

executing "python foo.py" prints
True
False

 > [...]

Bye,
    Walter D?rwald



From andymac at bullseye.apana.org.au  Thu Apr  8 06:38:48 2004
From: andymac at bullseye.apana.org.au (Andrew MacIntyre)
Date: Thu, 8 Apr 2004 20:38:48 +1000 (EST)
Subject: Intermittant slow startup
In-Reply-To: <9badaf0.0404071113.6cdcee6b@posting.google.com>
References: <9badaf0.0404051033.9fec2db@posting.google.com>
	<4071A86D.97CA6CAE@alcyone.com>
	<9badaf0.0404051445.5b26b945@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.391.1081257204.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<9badaf0.0404071113.6cdcee6b@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <20040408203219.H9951@bullseye.apana.org.au>

On Thu, 7 Apr 2004, Michael Mossey wrote:

> I double-checked that and asked the sysadmin to check if the python
> build was using any network source.  I do have AFS and NFS drives
> mounted on this machine, but I'm not reading any python code from them
> as nearly as I can tell.  PYTHONPATH points only to local disk.

All I can think of is to try using "python -v" and see where in the
startup process the delay appears to be occurring.  If the same module is
involved in every stumble, then at least you have a module to investigate.

--
Andrew I MacIntyre                     "These thoughts are mine alone..."
E-mail: andymac at bullseye.apana.org.au  (pref) | Snail: PO Box 370
        andymac at pcug.org.au             (alt) |        Belconnen  ACT  2616
Web:    http://www.andymac.org/               |        Australia



From jonas at jonasgalvez.com  Wed Apr 21 15:40:56 2004
From: jonas at jonasgalvez.com (Jonas Galvez)
Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2004 16:40:56 -0300
Subject: Time
References: <mailman.871.1082573147.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<GpmdnUrULu5EVxvdRVn-sw@powergate.ca>
Message-ID: <c66iro$66f$1@sea.gmane.org>

Thanks all.

> [Mike Fletcher]
> That format is the ISO standard date-time format.  The modern way
> to work with date-times in Python is to use the datetime module,
> so:
>
>  >>> import datetime
>  >>> d = datetime.datetime( 2004, 4, 21, 15, 05)
>  >>> d.isoformat()
> '2004-04-21T15:05:00'
>
> You can use datetime.datetime( * mytuple ) to auto-unpack your
> tuple, btw.

Cool, that's what I was looking for.

> [Peter Hansen]
> You want to read about the "time" module:
>
>  >>> t = (2004, 4, 21, 15, 33)
>  >>> import time
>  >>> time.strftime('%Y-%m-%dT%H:%M:00', t+(0,0,0,0))
> '2004-04-21T15:33:00'
>
> I left the "T" in there as a literal because I don't know what you
> meant it to be and there's no obvious single-character
> substitution.

The "T" is from the W3C format:
http://www.w3.org/TR/NOTE-datetime

I need it to generate valid RSS/ATOM feeds.



=-
Jonas Galvez
jonasgalvez.com/blog
macromedia.com/go/team







From mark at prothon.org  Sat Apr  3 01:29:03 2004
From: mark at prothon.org (Mark Hahn)
Date: Fri, 2 Apr 2004 22:29:03 -0800
Subject: Indent testers needed (Prothon)
References: <Unqbc.131025$cx5.57643@fed1read04>
Message-ID: <PQsbc.136720$cx5.106797@fed1read04>

I have a newer better-working version to download and test:

 http://prothon.org/pub/prothon/prothon-unstable-b266-win32.zip

The instructions are the same except the folder name will be Prothon:

Unzip the file which will make a folder called Prothon.  Drop your .pr file
into the folder.  Open a dos command window. CD to the win32 folder and run
the prothon.exe file with the .pr file name:

prothon.exe code.pr

Features:

1) You must use only tabs or only spaces for indents in any one file. You
cannot mix them.

2) Each indent level can have any number of characters more than the
previous level, whether you are using tabs or spaces.  If you drop back to
the left to dedent, and your column position does not match any level above,
you will get a lexer error.

3) If you  increase the indentation level above the previous line by even
one space, and that previous line does not end in a colon, then the new line
will be considered a continuation of the previous line.

4) If a line contains an active (not quoted or commented)  (, {, or [
without a matching end character, then the following line is always a
continuation, no matter what that following line contains.

5) There is still support for using the trailing backslash ( \ ) to indicate
that the next line is a continuation.  This may be removed in the future if
everyone agrees to do so.

6) A continuation line is effectively added to the end of the previous line
so any line following a continuation line uses the last non-continuation
line for the "previous line" in all the rules above.





From sross at connectmail.carleton.ca  Tue Apr 13 11:59:28 2004
From: sross at connectmail.carleton.ca (Sean Ross)
Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2004 11:59:28 -0400
Subject: Once-only evaluation of default parameter values function
	definitions
References: <407B79D7.424F65A1@doe.carleton.ca>
Message-ID: <n7Uec.5155$vF3.919140@news20.bellglobal.com>

"Fred Ma" <fma at doe.carleton.ca> wrote in message
news:407B79D7.424F65A1 at doe.carleton.ca...
> From the python tutorial, it's clear that to avoid sharing default
> values between function calls, one has to avoid:
>
>    Example#1
>    ---------
>    def f(a, L=[]):
>        L.append(a)
>        return L
>
> Instead, one should use:
>
>    Example#2
>    ---------
>    def f(a, L=None):
>        if L is None:
>            L = []
>        L.append(a)
>        return L
>


For fun, here's a little hack to work around that:

from copy import deepcopy

def fresh_defaults(f):
   fdefaults = f.func_defaults                         # get f's defaults
   def freshener(*args, **kwds):
      f.func_defaults = deepcopy(fdefaults)  # and keep fresh
      return f(*args, **kwds)                            # between calls
   return freshener

def f(a, L=[]):
    L.append(a)
    return L
f = fresh_defaults(f)   # <= transform f


[snip]
>    print f(1)
>    print f(2)
>    print f(3)
>
> prints
>
>    [1]
>    [1, 2]
>    [1, 2, 3]
>

now prints

[1]
[2]
[3]


Neat.

Of course, it adds indirection and slows down the code... oh well ;)

Welcome to Python,
Sean




From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Fri Apr  2 15:10:28 2004
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 2 Apr 2004 15:10:28 -0500
Subject: Python conference slogan
References: <mailman.189.1080759511.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<mailman.259.1080890435.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<c4jj1i$f6g$1@swifty.westend.com>
	<tyflllez9hw.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
Message-ID: <c4khbk$6k0$1@panix3.panix.com>

In article <tyflllez9hw.fsf at pcepsft001.cern.ch>,
Jacek Generowicz  <jacek.generowicz at cern.ch> wrote:
>
>A previous slogan was:
>
>   Python: Programming the way Guido indented it.
>
>Pretty meaningless to Python outsiders, I'd say.

Close, but no cigar:

    Python:
        Programming the way
        Guido indented it
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

"usenet imitates usenet"  --Darkhawk


From peter at engcorp.com  Wed Apr 14 12:06:08 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2004 12:06:08 -0400
Subject: interpreter limits
In-Reply-To: <vKcfc.141399$K91.354742@attbi_s02>
References: <m3zn9f95xm.fsf@union.tjtech.com>
	<407c23bf$0$570$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>
	<m3u0zn93sg.fsf@union.tjtech.com>
	<407c2ecc$0$574$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>
	<7xisg3vfat.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<vKcfc.141399$K91.354742@attbi_s02>
Message-ID: <YYqdnf44H6ft_ODdRVn-uQ@powergate.ca>

djw wrote:

> Paul Rubin wrote:
> 
>> Irmen de Jong <irmen at -nospam-remove-this-xs4all.nl> writes:
>>
>>> Can't you do something smart with signals, threads, alarm() and kill() ?
>>> Like running the code in a worker thread, where the main thread
>>> keeps track of how long it has been running and if not finished
>>> within a certain time, kill() it.
>>
>>
>>
>> How do you kill a thread from another thread?  I don't know of any way
>> to do that.
>>
>> Maybe it's safest to run the user script in a separate process and
>> communicate through a socket or through shm.  That allows using the
>> normal OS features for resource limits, file protection, etc.
> 
> My exploration into threads indicated that you can't kill one thread 
> from another.

http://www.strakt.com/docs/os03_threads_interrupt.pdf has some info
about an approach (via a C extension only) which can be used in 2.3
to do it.


From rob at robdijkshoorn.com  Mon Apr  5 08:59:33 2004
From: rob at robdijkshoorn.com (Rob Dijkshoorn)
Date: Mon, 5 Apr 2004 14:59:33 +0200
Subject: Building 2.3.3 on AIX, term.h complaint
References: <406f537f$1_1@themost.net>
Message-ID: <1081169983.528012@blaat.sara.nl>


"Paul Watson" <pwatson at redlinepy.com> wrote in message
news:406f537f$1_1 at themost.net...
>
> checking term.h usability... no
> checking term.h presence... yes
> configure: WARNING: term.h: present but cannot be compiled
> configure: WARNING: term.h: check for missing prerequisite headers?
> configure: WARNING: term.h: proceeding with the preprocessor's result
> configure: WARNING:     ## ------------------------------------ ##
> configure: WARNING:     ## Report this to bug-autoconf at gnu.org. ##
> configure: WARNING:     ## ------------------------------------ ##
> checking for term.h... yes
>
Hi Paul,

I got the same message (AIX 5.1, xlC) but the compile went fine. I have seen
this warning on Linux a lot as well, when compiling various oss packages
(Samba comes to mind). Does your compile fail?

On a side note, I am unable to compile the modules, it fails with the
following error:

building '_tkinter' extension
./Modules/ld_so_aix cc_r -bI:Modules/python.exp
build/temp.aix-5.1-2.3/_tkinter.o
build/temp.aix-5.1-2.3/tkappinit.o -L/usr/X11R6/lib -L/usr/local/lib -ltk8.2
 -ltcl8.2 -lX11 -o build/lib.aix-5.1-2.3/_tkinter.so
ld: 0706-006 Cannot find or open library file: -l tk8.2
        ld:open(): A file or directory in the path name does not exist.
ld: 0706-006 Cannot find or open library file: -l tcl8.2
        ld:open(): A file or directory in the path name does not exist.
*** WARNING: renaming "_tkinter" since importing it failed: A file or
directory in the path name does not exist.
error: A file or directory in the path name does not exist.
make: 1254-004 The error code from the last command is 1.

Something you have come across?

Regards,
Rob




From jbenson at sextans.lowell.edu  Fri Apr 30 21:01:58 2004
From: jbenson at sextans.lowell.edu (Jim Benson)
Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2004 18:01:58 -0700 (MST)
Subject: IDE for Python
In-Reply-To: <20040430211732.38504.qmail@web60802.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0404301751310.14847-100000@sextans.mesa.lowellnet>

On Fri, 30 Apr 2004, dont bother wrote:

> Hi Guys:
> Is there any good IDE for Python. I checked on
> www.python.org and found some. Installed bluefish but

I asked a similar question a while back on this list.
I received a number of very helpful replies.

here is the link to that thread:

http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&threadm=
mailman.142.1078798509.19534.python-list%40python.org&rnum=4&prev=
/groups%3Fsafe%3Dimages%26ie%3DUTF-8%26oe%3DUTF-8%26as_ugroup%3D
comp.lang.python%26as_uauthors%3DJim%2520Benson%26lr%3D%26hl%3Den

If this link didn't copy correctly the subject was:

"a desired python editor"

Jim






From kier at sdf1.net  Tue Apr 13 09:52:44 2004
From: kier at sdf1.net (Ray Slakinski)
Date: 13 Apr 2004 06:52:44 -0700
Subject: Parsing string array for differences
References: <7598e160.0404120856.217bc8d5@posting.google.com>
	<10vqk1-lcb1.ln1@eskimo.tundraware.com>
Message-ID: <7598e160.0404130552.299fcca0@posting.google.com>

Yup, someone on IRC introduced me to sets, and I love it :)

Thanks for the help guys.

Ray

Tim Daneliuk <tundra at tundraware.com> wrote in message news:<10vqk1-lcb1.ln1 at eskimo.tundraware.com>...
> 
> http://pydoc.org/2.3/sets.html


From jcarlson at uci.edu  Sun Apr 18 04:28:59 2004
From: jcarlson at uci.edu (Josiah Carlson)
Date: Sun, 18 Apr 2004 01:28:59 -0700
Subject: module not callable - why not?
In-Reply-To: <8ef9bea6.0404122025.36efc84e@posting.google.com>
References: <c56jph$rrk$05$1@news.t-online.com>	<107dras2heahcb6@news.supernews.com>
	<mailman.491.1081538569.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<8ef9bea6.0404122025.36efc84e@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <c5tef0$5hf$1@news.service.uci.edu>

>>- Don't name the module and a class in it the same thing
>>  import Queue # Queue is a module
>>  from Queue import Queue # Queue is a class
>>  ...  
> 
> To be frank, this problem is just one of the symptoms of a sickened
> programming language. Python runs into this problem (like
> SimpleXMLRPCServer.SimpleXMLRPCServer) because:
> 
> (a) By historical accident, Python modules differ significantly from
> regular classes. (Modules are like singleton without constructor for
> multiple instantiation, and without property getters/setters.)
> 
> (b) Python uses class-based OOP, instead of prototype-based OOP.
> 
> Class-based OOP is a historical mistake. If time could be turned back,
> I think people would rather start with prototype-based OOP, instead.
> 
> Because of this mistake of using class-based OOP, you have incomplete
> objects like modules and classes: you usually can't use them directly,
> at least not as comfortably/powerfully. Therefore, you find yourself
> dealing with names like SimpleXMLPRCServer.SimpleXMLRPCServer, without
> being able to collapse instance/class/module into one single object
> and one single name.

I think of modules as a namespace.  Why?  Because that is what they are. 
  They contain a space of names, some of which may be useful to you, 
otherwise you wouldn't have imported the module.  One really nifty thing 
about modules is that you can rename them if you want to, or even rebind 
names within them.  The user is allowed to do anything they want, even 
foolish things like "from module_blah import *".

In my opinion, modules are an explicit (and correct) solution to the 
namespace problem.  You don't like them?  Fine, write your own custom 
import command and stick it in site.py.  If you're good, you can enable 
it per-module (so that you can still use the standard library), and only 
have to deal with the "mistake" every once and a while.

  - Josiah


From bkelley at wi.mit.edu  Tue Apr 13 17:29:09 2004
From: bkelley at wi.mit.edu (Brian Kelley)
Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2004 17:29:09 -0400
Subject: Python crashes - cannot pin it down!
In-Reply-To: <c5h7cf$8td$1@news3.tilbu1.nb.home.nl>
References: <qDUec.75076$Id.1355@news-binary.blueyonder.co.uk>
	<c5h7cf$8td$1@news3.tilbu1.nb.home.nl>
Message-ID: <407c5bd5$0$559$b45e6eb0@senator-bedfellow.mit.edu>

> from wxPython.wx import *
> app = wxPySimpleApp()
> app.MainLoop()
> wxMessageBox("Hello")

Actually, you don't need the app.MainLoop() here.  Dialog boxes 
essentially start their own main loops.  The reason your application was 
crashing was because wxPython needs to have an application created 
before you can create windows and such, you can think of this as an 
initialization step.  It's not quite smart enough to know that an 
application hasn't been created though, hence the crash.

Brian


From jfabiani at yolo.com  Thu Apr 22 09:52:21 2004
From: jfabiani at yolo.com (John Fabiani)
Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2004 13:52:21 GMT
Subject: Newbie to client/server
Message-ID: <p6Qhc.39822$on5.30998@newssvr29.news.prodigy.com>

I don't understand how to get data from multi tables for my forms/windows. 
I have been reading how to connect and get data (using a SQL statement)
from MySQL.  I think I understand.  
Now the question if I have a form (i.e. AR invoice) that requires data from
more than one table (or I need multi SQL statements) where do I put it.  It
appears that I can have only one cursor.  This must be wrong. I can
understand that I can reuse the connect object but the returning
information ends up into the same cursor.  I don't want code (just how to
do it right) but when I do something like the following it does not work:
Con=myconnection_string
Cursor=con.cursor()
Cursor.execute(somestatement)
newCursor=con.cursor()
newCursor.execute(somestatement)  #does not work
John
-- 
John Fabiani


From grante at visi.com  Thu Apr 29 17:36:27 2004
From: grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards)
Date: 29 Apr 2004 21:36:27 GMT
Subject: Don't understand wxPython ids
References: <408ed938$0$17263$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
	<fef78025.0404291310.65efff30@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <4091755b$0$30295$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>

On 2004-04-29, Matt Brubeck <mbrubeck at cs.hmc.edu> wrote:

> "Wax" is a wxPython wrapper under development at:
>
>     http://zephyrfalcon.org/labs/
>     http://zephyrfalcon.org/weblog/arch_Wax.html
>
> Wax has a much more Pythonic API than wxPython, and gets rid of the
> numeric IDs completely.

I like it!  I'm currently downloading a set of Mandrake 10 CDs
so I can run wxPython 2.5.  Hopefully the upgrade won't kill
more than a few days.  Once the system upgrade is done, I'll
give Wax a try.

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow!  ... I want FORTY-TWO
                                  at               TRYNEL FLOATATION SYSTEMS
                               visi.com            installed withinSIX AND A
                                                   HALF HOURS!!!


From Stanislav.Paska at kios.sk  Thu Apr 29 00:23:45 2004
From: Stanislav.Paska at kios.sk (Stano Paska)
Date: Thu, 29 Apr 2004 06:23:45 +0200
Subject: Path ... where is my application's home dir?
In-Reply-To: <opr655rvsx35jo5o@news.gmane.org>
References: <opr655rvsx35jo5o@news.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <40908351.8040204@kios.sk>

Marco Aschwanden wrote:

> I want to store a file in the application directory. What is the easiest 
> way to figure out, where my application is situated?
> 
> sys.argv[0] does not work for my purposes... do you have any other ideas.
> 
> Thanks for any hint,
> Marco
> 
> 

I use this piece of code (on WinNT, WinXP):

import os, os.path
aaa = os.path.dirname(sys.argv[0])
if aaa == '':
     aaa = os.getcwd()
print "homedir is: " % aaa

Stano.





From tim.golden at viacom-outdoor.co.uk  Mon Apr 26 03:16:52 2004
From: tim.golden at viacom-outdoor.co.uk (Tim Golden)
Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2004 08:16:52 +0100
Subject: my first program- List Box help?
Message-ID: <F1921F85572CB04D9F55B14BDC76B3E443483D@tdi_nt9.internal.viacom-outdoor.co.uk>

>I am new to python and am trying to make a front end for an emulator.
>I am using python, livewires and pygame. I am able to do everything I
>want except createa list box.
>
>So I think all I need to learn how to do is draw a text box that
>imports a xml file and with every click of an arrow key it updates a
>variable. I also do not know how to start the bat file. But I think I
>might be able to figure out on my own.

It's quite difficult to know where to start: you've obviously
already got the pygame and livewires documentation, and equally
obviously you already know that once you're into pygame-style
development you're rolling your own all the way. Which means that
there is no one canonical way to produce a list box and to
trigger a set of images on each movement within it, so it's
difficult to post a code fragment.

Having said that I have produced some small widgets for use in 
a pygame-based application here, including a listbox which I 
use for selecting a printer from the available list. 
If this would be of use to you I'm happy to send it. 
Let me know.

And/Or give a clearer idea of what you're up to. And post
some code that you've already done so we can see what
approach you're taking.

TJG


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From aku at europe.com  Mon Apr  5 12:48:27 2004
From: aku at europe.com (aku)
Date: 05 Apr 2004 16:48:27 GMT
Subject: design by contract versus doctest
References: <407174ea$0$5066$4d4ebb8e@news.nl.uu.net>
	<T7Sdnf23r-IZGOzdRVn-sA@powergate.ca>
Message-ID: <40718ddb$0$5071$4d4ebb8e@news.nl.uu.net>

On 2004-04-05, Peter Hansen <peter at engcorp.com> wrote:
>  aku wrote:
> 
> > Isn't it so, that by applying DBC, a lot of unittests can be
> > made redundant?
> 
>  How would you propose verifying that your code will work if you
>  don't run tests before you ship?

in debugging mode you obviously have to ensure that the caller
makes sure that all preconditions are met...then - by contract - 
the postconditions are met on returning from the function.
A very very simple example, but just to make the point:

n = 1
# at this point we are sure that n is an integer and n>=0
result = sort(n)

> 
>  Don't say "manual testing"...
> 
>  -Peter


From junkmail at solumslekt.org  Thu Apr  1 17:35:58 2004
From: junkmail at solumslekt.org (Leif B. Kristensen)
Date: Fri, 02 Apr 2004 00:35:58 +0200
Subject: [OT] Top posting is a PITA
References: <569c605ld1cj8fc1emolk08ete0s1prls1@4ax.com>
	<v0r9c.38988$cx5.22021@fed1read04>
	<106di86neu1qh4d@news.supernews.com>
	<AHF9c.49048$cx5.33872@fed1read04> <c4akqh$gml$1@panix2.panix.com>
	<Sz8ac.68272$cx5.62681@fed1read04>
	<mailman.115.1080652873.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<4069a001$0$4237$afc38c87@news.easynet.co.uk>
	<4069e9d9$0$8915$636a15ce@news.free.fr>
	<406a98ee$0$290$edfadb0f@dread12.news.tele.dk>
	<c4e6jv$10te$1@biggoron.nerim.net>
	<106lh64rda8t9d4@news.supernews.com>
	<tyfn05w1358.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
	<roy-E8B6F4.08412101042004@reader1.panix.com>
	<3YXac.5683$406.5360@newssvr15.news.prodigy.com>
Message-ID: <bN0bc.4345$px6.63589@news2.e.nsc.no>

Robin Munn wrote:

> Another problem that occurs when some people top-post and some do not
> is that the conversation thread quickly becomes unreadable unless
> someone takes the time to rearrange it into a consistent form (as I
> did in composing this reply).
 
And more often than not, that's perceived as really not worth the
effort. So, a lot of people that might have provided useful answers,
doesn't care to reply to top-postings because it involves too much work
to rearrange the text to respond in a sensible way.

Top-posting *is* shitting in your pants.

regards,
-- 
Leif Biberg Kristensen
http://solumslekt.org/
Validare necesse est


From roy at panix.com  Thu Apr 15 10:38:16 2004
From: roy at panix.com (Roy Smith)
Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2004 10:38:16 -0400
Subject: Newbie question: Returning mutable vs. immutable
References: <997a06e0.0404150627.5fb95d9b@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <roy-B1CADE.10381615042004@reader2.panix.com>

In article <997a06e0.0404150627.5fb95d9b at posting.google.com>,
 pugnatio2 at yahoo.com wrote:

> Hi, Does anyone have an opinion as to whether functions/methods should
> return mutable or immutable objects? In some circumstances, I could
> see that mutable objects might be more convenient, but if the function
> is to be reused, it might be a good idea to return only immutables.
> 
> Or is this question moot, since the function returns control to the
> caller and is out of the picture at that point?
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> --p

I don't think there's any general rule for this.  Return what makes 
sense to return and don't worry about the mutability unless there's some 
specific reason it needs to be mutable (i.e. you're going to change it) 
or immutable (i.e. you're going to use it as a dictionary key).


From cm at leetspeak.org  Mon Apr 12 21:31:25 2004
From: cm at leetspeak.org (Michael Walter)
Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2004 03:31:25 +0200
Subject: Escaping characters in MySQLdb query
In-Reply-To: <nGGec.836$U83.14@fed1read03>
References: <AkEec.271$U83.155@fed1read03>
	<c5fb0o$131c4$1@ID-88904.news.uni-berlin.de>
	<nGGec.836$U83.14@fed1read03>
Message-ID: <c5fftd$11g32$1@ID-88904.news.uni-berlin.de>

Sean Berry wrote:
> It doesn't work.  If I have a value with a ', it creates an error.
> 
> 
> "Michael Walter" <cm at leetspeak.org> wrote in message
> news:c5fb0o$131c4$1 at ID-88904.news.uni-berlin.de...
> 
>>Sean Berry wrote:
>>
>>>I wrote a little script that is inserting thousands of records into a
> 
> mysql
> 
>>>database.
>>>
>>>How do I escape characters like ' in my insert statements?
>>>
>>>I have something like the following (much shorter) example:
>>>
>>>c.execute("INSERT INTO records (var1, var2) values ('%s', '%s')"
> 
> %(value1,
> 
>>>value2))
>>>
>>>My problem is when value1 is something like "Tom's auto supply".  The '
> 
> in
> 
>>>Tom's needs to be escaped.  How can I do this?
>>>
>>>Thanks.
>>>
>>>
>>
>>I suppose you do like:
>>
>>c.execute("INSERT INTO records (var1, var2) values ('%s', '%s')",
>>(value1,value2))
>>
>>and have all magic done for you.
>>
>>Cheers,
>>Michael
> 
> 
> 

It should obviously be without the quotations marks inside the SQL 
string, but besides it does work.

   c.execute("INSERT INTO records (var1, var2) values (%s, %s)",
(value1,value2))

Cheers,
Michael


From michele.simionato at poste.it  Thu Apr  1 03:17:45 2004
From: michele.simionato at poste.it (Michele Simionato)
Date: 1 Apr 2004 00:17:45 -0800
Subject: Prothon, metaclasses, Zope [Was: A 'Python like' language]
References: <95aa1afa.0403272243.78d60724@posting.google.com>
	<slrnc6crti.dit.joe@gate.notcharles.ca>
	<eAF9c.48978$cx5.17895@fed1read04> <c4fq68$mk7$1@panix3.panix.com>
	<S7Lac.87628$cx5.10253@fed1read04>
Message-ID: <95aa1afa.0404010017.2f1683b8@posting.google.com>

"Mark Hahn" <mark at prothon.org> wrote in message news:<S7Lac.87628$cx5.10253 at fed1read04>...

Original top posting maintained on purpose:

> Does anyone get anything done around here with all the bitching?  I've been
> communicating via email for 30 years and never have I seen such complaining
> about something so silly.  If you have anything to contribute to Prothon
> I'll be over in the Prothon lists.  We are too busy creating to have
> conversations like this over there.
> 
> You may not be able to tell it, but I'm a nice guy who would really like
> feedback from intelligent knowledgable people like yourself.  I just can't
> take this anymore.
> 
> Aahz wrote:
> > In article <eAF9c.48978$cx5.17895 at fed1read04>,
> > Mark Hahn <mark at prothon.org> wrote:
> >>
> >> Self defines having the same attribute in two different prototypes
> >> illegal.  That seemed extremely constraining to me so I went with the
> >> Python 2.2 mro solution in Prothon.
> >
> > Bad idea.  But I won't tell you why until you stop top-posting and
> > over-quoting.

Aahz is probably referring to the fact that Python 2.3 has changed the
MRO since the 2.2 one was a bad idea. See
http://www.python.org/2.3/mro.html
for more. A part for this, Aahz is right in pointing out that you
cannot get
the attention of a lot of intelligent knowledgable people on c.l.py
because
of your postings habits. Actually this is the reason why I have
downloaded Prothon yet. It is kinda of a pity, since maybe the idea is
worth, but it is difficult to give credit to people liking tabs and
top posting. Those are not
stupid things IMNSHO.

             Michele Simionato


From peter at engcorp.com  Wed Apr 14 08:36:37 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2004 08:36:37 -0400
Subject: Wrapper round x86 Assembler
In-Reply-To: <8089854e.0404132323.3283390@posting.google.com>
References: <8089854e.0404082353.7bf163a2@posting.google.com>
	<4dKdnQlIXMIXIevdRVn-gg@powergate.ca>
	<8089854e.0404100204.504186a0@posting.google.com>
	<kcWdnaFpw_PvdurdRVn-sA@powergate.ca>
	<8089854e.0404122329.5dfe5ce1@posting.google.com>
	<R9-dnUYH8r32f-bd4p2dnA@powergate.ca>
	<8089854e.0404132323.3283390@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <C72dnV4KRqbJreDdRVn-jA@powergate.ca>

Fuzzyman wrote:

> In summary - I'm better off learning C and how to write Python
> extensions !!
> It's just a very 'undynamic solution'.
> 
> Ho hum.... I've been trying to avoid delving into the arcane
> makefile/linker/compiler chain mysteries... probably be more useful
> anyway.

That is where Pyrex comes in.  You aren't supposed to have to know
all those gory details then.  Just some of them. :-)

> I'm 'aware' of the concepts of memory allocation, garbage collection
> etc - but I'm sure there's plenty more to learn..........

I doubt you'll need to encounter those if you're just trying to
squeeze performance out of some bit-twiddling code.

-Peter


From chrish at cryptocard.com  Wed Apr 14 08:34:02 2004
From: chrish at cryptocard.com (Chris Herborth)
Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2004 08:34:02 -0400
Subject: Simple pyhon-based CMS
In-Reply-To: <Oaafc.12562$vF3.1221694@news20.bellglobal.com>
References: <9396ba6f.0404131817.1219c695@posting.google.com>
	<Oaafc.12562$vF3.1221694@news20.bellglobal.com>
Message-ID: <Xcafc.12590$vF3.1222262@news20.bellglobal.com>

Chris Herborth wrote:

> Stewart Midwinter wrote:
> 
>> I'm looking for a simple python-based CMS (content management system),
>> maybe with some blog-like features, ability to add articles - nothing
>> too fancy.  Do you have any suggestions?
> 
> A friend of mine is working on one called MangoBery 
> (http://sourceforge.net/projects/mangobery/), which is in use at several 
> sites... not sure if it meets your needs, but take a look.

Oh, wait, I just checked... it's written in PHP, which may or may not be a 
problem for you.  Sorry about that!

-- 
Chris Herborth                                     chrish at cryptocard.com
Documentation Overlord, CRYPTOCard Corp.      http://www.cryptocard.com/
Never send a monster to do the work of an evil scientist.
Postatem obscuri lateris nescitis.


From len-1 at telus.net  Tue Apr  6 01:35:46 2004
From: len-1 at telus.net (Lenard Lindstrom)
Date: Tue, 06 Apr 2004 05:35:46 GMT
Subject: Using function parameters to determine method kind
References: <4qrzym6e.fsf@telus.net>
	<95aa1afa.0404050417.2d11b369@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <8yh9r7p2.fsf@telus.net>

Michele Simionato <michele.simionato at poste.it> wrote:
>Lenard Lindstrom <len-1 at telus.net> wrote in message
> news:<4qrzym6e.fsf at telus.net>...
>> I was wondering if anyone has suggested having Python determine
>> a method's kind from its first parameter.
...
>I find relaying on tbe parameter name to specify the kind of method
>to be rather fragile. It works most times but not always. What about
>inner classes for instance?
Do you mean:
  from dparams import Object
  class A(Object):
      class B(Object):
          def __init__(self, x): self.x = x
  b=A.B(x)
 ?
Class A.B is not affected. Parameter checking only happens for
instances of type function. Other callables have to be or
use descriptors to be anything other than static. As for B's
methods, parameter checking works just fine. My module is
more of a demonstration than a practical solution anyway.
I would suggest a different approach for implementing
parameter checking in the python interpreter.

> Also, there are situations where you want
>a method to work both with instances and classes, so do you want to
>use self or cls?
I can only imagine one way to do this now, wrap the function in a
descriptor.

>>> from dparams import Object
>>> from types import MethodType
>>> class bimethod(Object):
... 	def __init__(self, f): self.f=f
... 	def __get__(self, o, t):
... 		if o is None: return MethodType(self.f, t, type(t))
... 		return MethodType(self.f, o, t)
... 	
>>> class A(Object):
... 	def bi(x): return x
... 	bi=bimethod(bi)
... 	
>>> A.bi()
<class '__main__.A'>
>>> A().bi()
<__main__.A object at 0x0119C1B0>

Descriptors are unaffected by the function's parameters, so the first
parameter can be anything you want. If I am not mistaken, the only
methods other that __new__  that currently work without descriptors
are instance methods. Is it not good form for instance methods to
start with 'self' anyways? (except maybe for a metaclass's __init__,
but this is a special case)

>I support PEP 318 also because this will kill home grown hacks (including
>my own) to provide this kind of functionality.
This is a good PEP. It would complement the use of parameters.

>I am also waiting for a better "super" but it seems nobody is talking 
>about it.
I gave it a try by changing the type argument passed to a descriptor's
__get__ method, but it required a rewritten classmethod of course.

Lenard Lindstrom
<len-l at telus.net>




From donn at u.washington.edu  Tue Apr 13 12:29:16 2004
From: donn at u.washington.edu (Donn Cave)
Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2004 09:29:16 -0700
Subject: How to kill a SocketServer?
References: <c5e6k3$jf4$1@newshispeed.ch> <c5epfl$67h$1@news.service.uci.edu>
	<c5esrr$ii$1@newshispeed.ch> <c5g4qc$hru$1@news.service.uci.edu>
Message-ID: <donn-3172D0.09291613042004@nntp6.u.washington.edu>

In article <c5g4qc$hru$1 at news.service.uci.edu>,
 Josiah Carlson <jcarlson at uci.edu> wrote:

> > Since the whole application uses much CPU power, the performance (esp. the
> > reaction time) of an asynchronous server is too low.
> > 
> > We found out that a threading server is much the better choise for this, but
> > we'd need a way to stop a server and start it again (wich new parameters).
> 
> That is very interesting.
> 
> After doing some research into heavily multi-threaded servers in Python 
> a few years back, I discovered that for raw throughput, a properly 
> written async server could do far better than a threaded one.
> 
> If your request processing takes the most time, you may consider a 
> communication thread and a processing thread.
> 
> If your processing thread does a lot of waiting on a database or 
> something else, it may make sense to have one communication thread, and 
> a handful of database query threads.
> 
> What part of a request takes up the most time?

I wonder if you're making it more complicated than necessary.

The application uses a lot of CPU as it handles multiple
concurrent client connections.  That makes a pretty clear
case for some kind of parallel thread architecture, not
only to dispatch inputs promptly but also to take advantage
of commonly available SMP hardware.  As you acknowledge
above, the details of that architecture depend a lot on
what exactly they're doing - how many connections over
time, the nature of the request processing, etc.  But at
any rate, now they have a thread waiting in accept, and they
need to shake it loose.  My answer is `define a shutdown
request as part of the service protocol', but maybe you
would have a better idea.

   Donn Cave, donn at u.washington.edu


From peter at engcorp.com  Mon Apr 26 19:53:33 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2004 19:53:33 -0400
Subject: Uploading files from a server
In-Reply-To: <m1gjc.3688$g31.2919@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net>
References: <m1gjc.3688$g31.2919@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <hs-dnaK4VPpgPRDdRVn-hQ@powergate.ca>

Edward Diener wrote:

> What is the easiest way in Python in a web server 
                           ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
What does this mean?  Are you asking about a specific situation
you have already, such as Python CGI scripts running behind
an Apache server, or are you asking for suggestions for a web
framework which can handle this task, where the web server
itself is written in Python?  Or something else?

> to upload a client file,
> once the file name on the client's machine has been entered, to a directory
> on the server ?

That is done using the usual means laid out by the HTTP and HTML
standards, same with Python as with any other language.  Are
you actually asking how this is done?  (That is, using POST,
and an input type of "file", and so forth...)

Please clarify what you really want.

-Peter


From fumanchu at amor.org  Fri Apr 16 13:42:12 2004
From: fumanchu at amor.org (Robert Brewer)
Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2004 10:42:12 -0700
Subject: datetimes, tzinfo and gmtime epoch
Message-ID: <DE1CF2B4FEC4A342BF62B6B2B334601E562005@opus.amorhq.net>

John Hunter wrote:
> I have a python2.3 datetime instance and a tzinfo instance (eg Eastern
> from the python library reference).
> 
> What is the best way to convert that datetime instance to seconds
> since the epoch, gmtime?

You might try time.mktime(t), where t is a 9-tuple as desribed at:

http://docs.python.org/lib/module-time.html


FuManChu



From jdhunter at ace.bsd.uchicago.edu  Thu Apr 29 14:05:16 2004
From: jdhunter at ace.bsd.uchicago.edu (John Hunter)
Date: Thu, 29 Apr 2004 13:05:16 -0500
Subject: MATLAB2Python
In-Reply-To: <A4bkc.41287$OU.965595@news20.bellglobal.com> ("Colin J.
	Williams"'s message of "Thu, 29 Apr 2004 13:38:45 -0400")
References: <D2Xjc.28117$Qc.1080799@twister1.libero.it>
	<A4bkc.41287$OU.965595@news20.bellglobal.com>
Message-ID: <m27jvyoe1v.fsf@mother.paradise.lost>

>>>>> "Colin" == Colin J Williams <cjw at sympatico.ca> writes:

    Colin> You might like to take a look at PyMatrix.  It is still
    Colin> very much a development project, but I would appreciate
    Colin> your thoughts on the areas where it is deficient, as
    Colin> compared with MatLab.
    Colin> http://www3.sympatico.ca/cjw/PyMatrix

I looked over your site and examples, but didn't see any explanation
of what PyMatrix provides over the required numarray and all the
helpful linear algebra and summary functions it provides in
numarray.linear_algebra and numarray.linear_algebra.mlab.  With the
exception of Hilbert, most of the code seems like a wrapper of
numarray functionality.  

Is the main difference how you define the default behavior of
operators?  Or is this just a starting point for a much larger
package?

Thanks,
JDH



From Mike at DeleteThis.Geary.com  Sat Apr 17 02:07:52 2004
From: Mike at DeleteThis.Geary.com (Michael Geary)
Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2004 23:07:52 -0700
Subject: CamelCase versus wide_names (Prothon)
References: <UHxfc.9323$dZ1.3740@fed1read04><407ec022$0$54153$1b2cd167@news.wanadoo.nl><roy-C4FD90.13444715042004@reader2.panix.com><b9Afc.9345$dZ1.7703@fed1read04><mailman.714.1082153054.20120.python-list@python.org><69KdndtPUZT-5h3dRVn-uw@powergate.ca>
	<mailman.722.1082168811.20120.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1081idpaib8q2e9@corp.supernews.com>

Jack Diederich wrote:
> Strength of the belief that you have found the one true way is
> inversely proportional to the number of things you have tried.
> Java and VB folks are more likely to have an N of one and a
> belief approaching unity.  They are also more likely to be
> mixedCase people. That is my opinion.

I'll volunteer to be the exception that proves the rule. :-)

I'm 52, have been programming since 1968, and have coded in at least 30
different languages, using all of the naming conventions that have been
discussed here along with a few more.

I spent many years coding using names with underscores, but now I'm a big
fan of mixed case names and use them in all of my code. In fact, you can
blame me for talking Mark into changing Prothon to use mixed case names.

So, it ain't just the young'uns with limited experience. :-)

-Mike




From mark at prothon.org  Sat Apr 24 02:07:47 2004
From: mark at prothon.org (Mark Hahn)
Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2004 23:07:47 -0700
Subject: Why we will use obj$func() often
References: <d2Uhc.22272$dZ1.1600@fed1read04> <84Uhc.22278$dZ1.5087@fed1read04>
	<mailman.927.1082665370.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<8AWhc.23114$dZ1.11070@fed1read04> <40883BFE.B381518A@alcyone.com>
	<27_hc.23801$dZ1.2716@fed1read04> <40887145.789A2FE8@alcyone.com>
	<7cki80hj976bia36lhf9er97v073o1pqvm@4ax.com>
	<w8dic.28710$dZ1.11206@fed1read04> <ulXiAls/KH1K089yn@the-wire.com>
	<lkfic.29767$dZ1.17301@fed1read04>
	<donn-66132E.15345723042004@nntp3.u.washington.edu>
	<PLhic.30493$dZ1.22063@fed1read04> <1082783076.585831@yasure>
Message-ID: <Tunic.32387$dZ1.12932@fed1read04>


"Donn Cave" <donn at drizzle.com> wrote ...

> When I want
> a thing with persistent data, I'm thinking of an object.  One
> must keep things simple.

You aren't the only one who thinks that closures are unnecessary.  Dave
McQuigg has posted several messages today making that argument.  I also have
several people saying they couldn't live without them.  One javascript
programmer says he uses instance variables for access outside of objects
(properties) and closure variables for storage variables inside objects.  He
has posted a lengthy messge about it on the Prothon lists.  Go figure.

I personally think the complications of adding one '&' prefix to give all
the benefits of closures is a good trade-off.  No matter how much people
rant and rave about Prothon heading down the path to the Perl-y gates of
hell (sorry about that pun) I refuse to believe that some ugly punctuation
is going to ruin an otherwise good language.

> I might seriously
> consider what I believe we call lexical scoping, and a declaration -
> not assigning a type, but an initial value, like "let x = 0".
> Namespaces like Python's would be for objects - modules, classes,
> class instances, whatever - not functions - and would be purely
> explicit, not implicit like a scope (I think that would most
> conspicuously require some alternative for "def" statements,
> for example.)

I'm not following you exactly, but I think what you are asking for is the
declaration of variables with "let x = 0", or what some languages use is
just "var x" that specify that the variable belongs in the scope of that
declaration.  This resolves the ambiguity of local versus global variables
and even gives a nice solution for closures.

That is an interesting idea.  It turns out to be a little harder for the
compiler and program reader to use because both have to still scan the code
to find that declaration and discover what scope a variable belongs in,
although it is much easier than the current Python scheme where there are
complex rules and more code scanning involved, but less typing.  The Python
intrpreter requires three scans to parse the source and generate bytecodes.

The advantage of prefix symbols that Ruby and Prothon use right now is that
the compiler and the program reader don't have to scan the code at all to
see what scope the var belongs to.  When you see the & you know it's in the
surrounding function, when you see a capital letter you know it's global to
the module, when you see a lower-case letter you know it's local, etc.  Once
you get used to it the code is much more readable.  The Prothon compiler
parses source and generates code in one fast pass.

I'm sorry, I got into sales pitch mode again.  I'll let you go.  It's been
interesting chatting...




From fadelorme at free.fr  Fri Apr 30 13:38:53 2004
From: fadelorme at free.fr (Famille Delorme)
Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2004 19:38:53 +0200
Subject: Dictionnary vs Class for configuration
Message-ID: <40929016$0$8635$626a14ce@news.free.fr>

Sorry if this discussion are already submited, but I don't find anything
really interresting for me.
And sorry for my bad english, it is not my native language.

I wrote a program in Python for a school project and I am in trouble.
I have make a Python script called conf.py. This file contains  dictionnarys
for configuration like this:
config_sql = {
                "DATABASE" : "nanana",
                "USERDB" : "bob",
                "PASSWORD" : "********"
                    }
config_script = {
                "TIMETOSLEEP" : 100
                "PATH" : "/home/script"
                }
The config_section variable is included in each modules (script python) used
in my program
(with from config.py import config_section)
And the use is like this
    from conf.py import config_sql
    print config["DATABASE"]

But my master say it's better to do a class like this
class config :
    def __init__(self, part=="") :
        if (part=="SQL") :
            self.database="nanana"
            self.userdb="bob"
            self.password="*******"
        elif (part=="SCRIPT") :
            self.timetosleep=10
            self.path="/home/script"
        ....

and the use like this
    from conf.py import config
    cfg=config("SQL")
    print cfg.database

We have do only a file for configuration because the administrator is no
searching for configuration.
I want know :
 - what is more faster, dictionnary method or class method?
 - what use more ram memory ?
 - if you are administrator, what method you like for configure program ?

Note:
    *  the class will not have methods, it is not necessary.
    * the program is composed of several modules which import
config_section.


Thank you for futures answers,
3Zen








From peter at engcorp.com  Thu Apr 22 22:16:20 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2004 22:16:20 -0400
Subject: AOP use cases
In-Reply-To: <tyffzav62ux.fsf@lxplus054.cern.ch>
References: <84fc4588.0404140106.3fa0c55@posting.google.com>
	<slrnc7q1ss.1aa.alf@largo.fayauffre.org>
	<cb035744.0404141130.170f51c4@posting.google.com>
	<slrnc7sgat.vp.alf@largo.fayauffre.org>
	<cb035744.0404160442.2f0b1661@posting.google.com>
	<0pydnSB4WYuieuLdRVn-hQ@powergate.ca>
	<tyfbrlkv3ae.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
	<XYmdnVLB9rjbARrdRVn-vg@powergate.ca>
	<tyf7jw8utoo.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
	<c68fj5$7bt$1@news1.wdf.sap-ag.de>
	<tyfvfjst2k9.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
	<tyffzav62ux.fsf@lxplus054.cern.ch>
Message-ID: <ZIqdna8YaN3p4RXd4p2dnA@powergate.ca>

Jacek Generowicz wrote:

> Jacek Generowicz <jacek.generowicz at cern.ch> writes:
>>Stupid example:
> 
> Let's give a better one, which is still short
> 
> # Mix concerns of calculating Fibonnaci numbers, and avoiding
> # recalculating the same answer repeatedly

<chuckle>  There's a large contingent of folks in the world,
not trained as computer scientists, who would question the
claim that anything involving Fibonnaci sequences makes
a good "real world" example.  ;-)

-Peter


From alf at calvin.fayauffre.org  Fri Apr 16 04:21:02 2004
From: alf at calvin.fayauffre.org (Alexandre Fayolle)
Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2004 08:21:02 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Aspect Programming Module
References: <84fc4588.0404140106.3fa0c55@posting.google.com>
	<slrnc7q1ss.1aa.alf@largo.fayauffre.org>
	<cb035744.0404141130.170f51c4@posting.google.com>
	<8ef9bea6.0404142155.90b41ef@posting.google.com>
	<407E394B.2050709@mxm.dk> <slrnc7shnn.vp.alf@largo.fayauffre.org>
	<c5o27l$298$1@arcturus.ciril.fr>
Message-ID: <slrnc7v5re.3vo.alf@largo.fayauffre.org>

Le 16-04-2004, Yermat <loic at fejoz.net> a ?crit?:

> Does it help ?

Well, yes and no. I agree that this is how AOP can be made to work in
Python (aand your implementation is not conceptually very different from
logilab.aspect (except that the module has some entry points for
choosing which methods are tied to the aspect)

However, I would not call this a "mixin" (which was the key word in my
question). My vision of a mixin implies (maybe wrongly) some
responsibilities to be added or customized through multiple inheritance 
to a given class by a mixin class. This supposes that the originial
class was designed with the mixin in mind. 

-- 
Alexandre Fayolle                              LOGILAB, Paris (France)
http://www.logilab.com   http://www.logilab.fr  http://www.logilab.org


From deetsNOSPAM at web.de  Thu Apr 22 12:29:10 2004
From: deetsNOSPAM at web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2004 18:29:10 +0200
Subject: alternative python compilers/vms? (like java)
References: <pan.2004.04.22.16.09.35.766000@project2501.cor>
Message-ID: <c68rnr$2br$03$1@news.t-online.com>

project2501 wrote:

> 
> are there alternative compilers for python? or different VMs to run the
> bytecode?
> 
> similar to IBM java jvm and sun jvm, and other jvms? jikes, gcj?

there is jython, a very popular python 2.1 implementation on top of the java
vm.

Apart from that, AFAIX python is not specified in terms of a vm, as jva is.
The bytecode might actually change between versions.

-- 
Regards,

Diez B. Roggisch


From jacek.generowicz at cern.ch  Wed Apr  7 07:43:26 2004
From: jacek.generowicz at cern.ch (Jacek Generowicz)
Date: 07 Apr 2004 13:43:26 +0200
Subject: OFF-TOPIC:: Why Lisp is not my favorite programming language
References: <165b3efa.0403030443.4d591f04@posting.google.com>
	<40460dd5$0$5916$7a628cd7@news.club-internet.fr>
	<d771b842.0403040735.3b5200ae@posting.google.com>
	<e87fc4b0.0403221114.254b7ee5@posting.google.com>
	<d771b842.0404061258.655b8e56@posting.google.com>
	<6in670lrldbjkuujle68a526293j57a7mn@4ax.com>
	<95aa1afa.0404070205.94b32e4@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <tyfptakvwrl.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>

michele.simionato at poste.it (Michele Simionato) writes:

> Stephen Horne <steve at ninereeds.fsnet.co.uk> wrote in message news:<6in670lrldbjkuujle68a526293j57a7mn at 4ax.com>...
> 
> > LISP is normally interpreted - maybe always, <snip>
> 
> I think you will be crucified for that affirmation.

Yes, maybe crucifiction is a more appropriate reaction :-)

> Anyway, here is an interesting thread talking about Lisp
> optimizations:
> 
> http://groups.google.it/groups?hl=it&lr=&ie=UTF-8&threadm=95aa1afa.0402262158.5b33de79%40posting.google.com&rnum=1&prev=/groups%3Fhl%3Dit%26lr%3D%26ie%3DISO-8859-1%26q%3Dsimionato%2Bfeature%2Brequest%26btnG%3DCerca%2Bcon%2BGoogle%26meta%3Dgroup%253Dcomp.lang.python.*

Eh, methinks you posted the wrong link.

Did you mean to point to this thread containing this post:

http://www.google.ch/groups?as_umsgid=ad2vzxoq.fsf%40ccs.neu.edu

?

[Summary: Troll comes to c.l.l claiming that Lisp is slow. Challenges
Lispniks to try to beat C++ on speed on a program that was designed to
test speed of C++ compilers. Lispniks beat C++ for speed in both
Common Lisp and Scheme.]


From zhristov at enchant.com.au  Wed Apr 14 18:58:40 2004
From: zhristov at enchant.com.au (Zlatko Hristov)
Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2004 08:58:40 +1000
Subject: Python script to grep squid logs
Message-ID: <1081983520.1417.17.camel@easynote>

Hello guys, 

I am a newby python user, I want to create a script which will go
through the squid log file and return me all the URL's accessed(i.e
www.bbc.com). Is RE the way to go?

Thank you,

Regards, 

Zlatko.




From n3613 at klaff.org  Fri Apr  2 12:49:02 2004
From: n3613 at klaff.org (Dave)
Date: Fri,  2 Apr 2004 09:49:02 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Making the Zen of Python more useful
Message-ID: <20040402174902.906E23FE4C@omta10.mta.everyone.net>


from this import s
s.decode('rot13')



From peter at engcorp.com  Tue Apr 27 07:25:35 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2004 07:25:35 -0400
Subject: Is Perl *that* good? (was: How's ruby compare to it older bro
In-Reply-To: <c6l5ja$o9$1@swifty.westend.com>
References: <mailman.18.1082989111.25742.python-list@python.org>
	<lNadndrvs_FarRDdRVn-vA@powergate.ca>
	<c6l5ja$o9$1@swifty.westend.com>
Message-ID: <sZSdnfJDBrSy3hPdRVn-sQ@powergate.ca>

Peter Maas wrote:

> Peter Hansen wrote:
> 
>> I guess it would be interesting to pose the question back to
>> them "If you could not use regexes in Perl, would you still
>> like to program in it?" or "If you couldn't use mysql in PHP
>> would you still use it?"
>>
>> What similar question, if any, would be a difficult one for
>> us Python types?
> 
> If you could not use block indentation in Python, would you
> still like to program in it? :-)

The way I indent my braces (the One True Way ;-), I wouldn't
really mind, I suppose:

def install(name)
     {
     if os.path.exists(name)
         {
         path, ext = os.path.splitext(name)
         if ext == '.zip'
             {
             try
                 {
                 x = Extractor(name)
                 path = os.path.join(x.extract(), path.replace('_', '.'))
                 }
             finally
                 {
                 x.close()
                 }
             }
         else
             {
             path = name
             }
         }
     }

-Peter


From imbosol at aerojockey.invalid  Tue Apr 27 19:26:49 2004
From: imbosol at aerojockey.invalid (Carl Banks)
Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2004 23:26:49 GMT
Subject: Is Perl *that* good?
References: <c6ich0$c5mee$1@ID-205437.news.uni-berlin.de>
	<iL3jc.232$Yc.2330@news4.e.nsc.no>
	<108q51j4dscn7dc@corp.supernews.com>
	<knbjc.267$id.3998@news2.e.nsc.no>
	<pan.2004.04.26.20.50.19.843510@hotmail.com>
	<87fzaqmm8t.fsf@strauser.com>
	<38ec68a6.0404262308.50029919@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.49.1083084698.25742.python-list@python.org>
	<pan.2004.04.27.18.15.56.169064@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <Z_Bjc.1397$ZD3.139@fe1.columbus.rr.com>

Paramjit Oberoi wrote:
> 
> 
>>     Asun> Regex is much more 'immediate' in Perl.  
>> 
>> Sure, it's syntactically bound into the language.  There will always be an
>> extra constant overhead to enable regular expressions in Python.  That
> 
> If only compiled regular expression objects allowed easy access to the
> last match object, python regxes would become significantly more
> convenient.  For example, today you have to write:
> 
> m = myregex.match(line)
> if (m):
>    xyz = m.group('xyz')
> 
> It would be much easier to do:
> 
> if myregex.match(line):
>    xyz = myregex.lastm.group('xyz')
> 
> Having to introduce a new variable name for a match object just
> muddles the code unnecessarily in common regex usage scenarios.


Hmm.  The reason this hasn't been done is that it makes the match
method non-reentrant.  For example, suppose you call some functions in
between the matching and use of the matched object, like this:

    if myregex.match(line):
        xyz = (subprocess(line[myregex.lastm.end():]) 
               + myregex.lastm.group(1))

And suppose subprocess goes on to use the same regexp.  By the time
subprocess returns, myregex.lastm could have been overwritten.  This
is not a far-fetched example at all; one could easily encounter this
problem when writing, say, a recursive descent parser.

Murphy's law says that if anything bad can happen, sooner or later it
will, and this is why non-reentrant functions like your proposed
myregex.match are so heinous.  So, I can't agree that this is a good
idea as it stands.



-- 
CARL BANKS                      http://www.aerojockey.com/software
"If you believe in yourself, drink your school, stay on drugs, and
don't do milk, you can get work." 
          -- Parody of Mr. T from a Robert Smigel Cartoon


From tjreedy at udel.edu  Mon Apr  5 02:44:55 2004
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Mon, 5 Apr 2004 02:44:55 -0400
Subject: Working with a list in a more "pythonic" way
References: <20040404124833458+0200@news.rhrz.uni-bonn.de><mailman.338.1081108625.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<eppstein-78D3D6.14092304042004@news.service.uci.edu>
Message-ID: <c4qv97$tgo$1@sea.gmane.org>


"David Eppstein" <eppstein at ics.uci.edu> wrote in message
news:eppstein-78D3D6.14092304042004 at news.service.uci.edu...
> In article <mailman.338.1081108625.20120.python-list at python.org>,
>  "Terry Reedy" <tjreedy at udel.edu> wrote:
>
> > Rewritten, your code is
> >
> > score = 0
> > for i in range(len(phrase)-1):
> >     score += soundScoreMatrix[ord(x[i]) - 65][ord(x[i + 1]) - 65]
> >
> > Once written thusly, the reduce form is obvious (but obviously not
tested):
> >
> > reduce(lambda score, i: score + soundScoreMatrix[ord(x[i]) -
65][ord(x[i +
> > 1]) - 65],
> >              range(len(phrase)-1), 0)
> >
> > but aside from any didactic value this has, I prefer, in this case, the
> > written-out loop.
>
> I prefer the sum form -- if sum() isn't good for this example, what is
> it there for at all?

In order to use sum(), one must have the items to be summed.  The OP does
not have them but must generate them in a explicit loop.  At that point, it
seems sensible to me to directly add them instead of yielding or collecting
them to be summed in a second (or third) loop in the sum function.

> I also don't like seeing the magic number 65
> without some sort of explanation.

Agreed.  Something for the OP to add.

>  And how come you're using x in one place and phrase in another?

I cut and  pasted.  Obvious, OP needs to use one or the other.

> ords = [ord(c) - ord('A') for c in phrase.upper()]
> score = sum([soundScoreMatrix[ords[i]][ords[i+1]]
>              for i in range(len(phrase)-1)
>              if 0 <= ords[i] < 26 and 0 <= ords[i+1] < 26])

Terry J. Reedy







From adam_gautier at yahoo.com  Sat Apr  3 12:35:19 2004
From: adam_gautier at yahoo.com (Adam T. Gautier)
Date: Sat, 03 Apr 2004 12:35:19 -0500
Subject: Working with bytes.
In-Reply-To: <406EE606.4000604@yahoo.com>
References: <406EE606.4000604@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <406EF5D7.6070508@yahoo.com>

I came up with a solution using the binascii module's hexlify method.  
Thanks

Adam T. Gautier wrote:

> I have been unable to solve a problem.  I am working with MD5 
> signatures trying to put these in a database.  The MD5 signatures are 
> not generated using the python md5 module but an external application 
> that is producing the valid 16 byte signature formats.  Anyway, these 
> 16 byte signatures are not nescarrally valid strings.  How do I 
> manipulate the bytes?  I need to concatenate the bytes with a SQL 
> statement which is a string.  This works fine for most of the md5 
> signatures but some blow up with a TypeError.  Because there is a NULL 
> byte or something else.  So I guess my ultimate question is how do I 
> get a prepared SQL statement to accept a series of bytes?  How do I 
> convert the bytes to a valid string like:
>
> 'x%L9d\340\316\262\363\037\311\345<\262\357\215'
>
> that can be concatenated?
>
> Thanks
>




From richie at entrian.com  Sun Apr  4 17:21:43 2004
From: richie at entrian.com (Richie Hindle)
Date: Sun, 04 Apr 2004 22:21:43 +0100
Subject: ANNOUNCE: 'goto' for Python
In-Reply-To: <40705B5E.5010709@cfl.rr.com>
References: <ip1t60pm9gu1ou8r0atn63en2iom91hg7r@4ax.com>
	<LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCAEOAJPAB.tim.one@comcast.net>
	<dka070lq7er483d0cuv1fn2gvhst4ec3ff@4ax.com>
	<40705B5E.5010709@cfl.rr.com>
Message-ID: <o8p0705ftjhgebl9uoqqohfcjehqcg75jg@4ax.com>


[pxlpluker]
> If i am right i sure could have used 
> this 2 weeks ago. I am a python noob and I eventually just set a "skip 
> this" flag with an if statement.

Oh dear... I think it's time to knock this one on the head (unless
pxlpluker is cleverly continuing the joke, in which case hats off to you
because you were very convincing 8-)

To all the Python newbies: the 'goto' module was an April Fool's joke.
Yes, it has a working implementation, but it was a joke nevertheless.
No-one would suggest that goto or comefrom are good ideas for Python.
Please don't use them in real code!

I think the module may have one legitimate use: as the basis for test
implementations of *sensible* new control flow structures for Python.
Every couple of months there's a thread here about how the 'while'
construct isn't powerful enough - maybe next time we can have a working
implementation of the latest suggested alternative, based on the
techniques used by goto.py.

I've enjoyed this thread immensely, and I hope others have too, but let's
call a halt to it before it does some real damage.  8-)

-- 
Richie Hindle
richie at entrian.com




From mh at pixar.com  Thu Apr 22 13:42:37 2004
From: mh at pixar.com (Mark Harrison)
Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2004 17:42:37 GMT
Subject: equivalent to Tcl 'after' command?
Message-ID: <huThc.54272$9V6.15414@newssvr25.news.prodigy.com>

I'm writing some event-driven programs, and I would like
to do the equivalent of the Tcl 'after' command, e.g.:

	after 1000 {puts "one second has elapsed"}

1.  What's the most canonical way of doing this?

2.  What's the best reference that talks about non-gui event loop
    programming in Python?

Many TIA!
Mark

-- 
Mark Harrison
Pixar Animation Studios


From premshree_python at yahoo.co.in  Mon Apr 12 05:38:16 2004
From: premshree_python at yahoo.co.in (=?iso-8859-1?q?Premshree=20Pillai?=)
Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2004 10:38:16 +0100 (BST)
Subject: pyAlbum.py: EXIF support added
Message-ID: <20040412093816.57899.qmail@web8308.mail.in.yahoo.com>

Hello,

I've now added an optional EXIF support to pyAlbum.py
(http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Cookbook/Python/Recipe/271246)

A sample album is available at
http://premshree.seacrow.com/temp/pics/2004-04-11/index.htm

-Premshree Pillai

=====
-Premshree
[http://www.qiksearch.com/]

________________________________________________________________________
Yahoo! India Matrimony: Find your partner online. http://yahoo.shaadi.com/india-matrimony/



From mark at prothon.org  Fri Apr 23 14:21:16 2004
From: mark at prothon.org (Mark Hahn)
Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2004 11:21:16 -0700
Subject: Why we will use obj$func() often
References: <d2Uhc.22272$dZ1.1600@fed1read04> <84Uhc.22278$dZ1.5087@fed1read04>
	<mailman.927.1082665370.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<8AWhc.23114$dZ1.11070@fed1read04> <40883BFE.B381518A@alcyone.com>
	<27_hc.23801$dZ1.2716@fed1read04> <40887145.789A2FE8@alcyone.com>
	<7cki80hj976bia36lhf9er97v073o1pqvm@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <w8dic.28710$dZ1.11206@fed1read04>

"David MacQuigg" <dmq at gain.com> wrote

> I would take this as constructive criticism, not an ad-hominem attack.

Yes, I admitted I was mistaken.  I was upset when I read the message and I
misread it as a slur.

> Adding syntax or making changes just because it allows you to do
> something that can't be done in Python is not good. We have to look at
> *use cases* for these features and compare them to a well-written
> Python equivalent.  Then, we can see if the benefit is worth the extra
> syntax.  We spend far to much time debating syntax without a clear
> benefit in mind.  Show us a nice closure.

The benefits of closures are well known.  I'll give you the canonical
example, but I'm sure textbooks can give you many more (by the way, Python
cannot do this):

# tested example
def getFunc():
    counter = 0
    def count():
            &counter += 1
            print &counter
    return count

c = getFunc()
c()     # prints 1
c()     # prints 2
c()     # prints 3





From jacek.generowicz at cern.ch  Mon Apr  5 05:30:53 2004
From: jacek.generowicz at cern.ch (Jacek Generowicz)
Date: 05 Apr 2004 11:30:53 +0200
Subject: Can someone give me a short explanation?
References: <mailman.353.1081154081.20120.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <tyf3c7izs8i.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>

"Senthoorkumaran Punniamoorthy" <solution88pro at hotmail.com> writes:

> I found this code in the book text processing with Python. But having
> little difficulty understanding how exactly it works and what should
> be passed as argument? Can someone decode this for me please?
> 
> 
> apply_each = lambda fns, args=[]: map(apply, fns, [args]*len(fns))


"map" is a builtin which applies its first argument (which should be a
function[*]) to the elements coming out of the sequences which are passed
to it as arguments 2,3, ... N, and collects all the results in a list,
which it returns.

[*] Where I say "function" in any of this, I should really be saying
    "callable". If you don't know what this means, ignore it. Not
    important.

In this case, the first argument of "map" is "apply". "apply" is a
builtin which takes a function as its first argument, and applies it
to whatever is in the sequence that is its second argument. (It also
has the ability to deal with keyword args, but forget those for now.)

Take in for granted, for now, that "args" in "[args]*len(fns)" refers
to an empty list. In which case "[args]*len(fns)" creates a list of
empty lists, whose length is equal to the length of the sequence
"fns".

Take it for granted, for now, that "fns" is a sequence of
functions. So, "map(apply, fns, [args]*len(fns))" calls the first
function in the "fns" (giving it no arguments) and remembers the
result, then it calls the next function in "fns" (with no args), and
so on ... then it returns all the results.

Now, "lambda" is a way of creating anonymous functions. You could
created "apply_each" like this:

   def apply_each(fns, args=[]):
       return map(apply, fns, [args]*len(fns))

So, "apply_each" is basically a function, which takes a sequence of
functions, calls them all, and returns all the results in a list.

Let's define a few simple functions, which take no arguments and
return something ... and pass them to apply_each

>>> apply_each = lambda fns, args=[]: map(apply, fns, [args]*len(fns))
>>> def one(): return "one"
... 
>>> def two(): return "two"
... 
>>> def three(): return "three"
... 
>>> apply_each([one,two,three])
['one', 'two', 'three']
>>> 

Now, you could pass a second argument to "apply_args", in which case
it should be a sequence, and the elements of the sequence would be
used as the arguments in each of the calls to the functions you pass.


Without seeing the broader context in which the original appears, it's
difficult to say why it was defined the way it was. Nowadays, I
suspect that many Pythoneers would prefer something like

   def apply_each(fns, args=[]):
       return [ fn(*args) for fn in fns ]

- The stuff appearing after "return" is a List Comprehension.

- The "*" in "fn(*args") means "args is a sequence: pass its contents as
  separate arguments to 'fn'".


From shane at zope.com  Fri Apr  2 14:00:18 2004
From: shane at zope.com (Shane Hathaway)
Date: Fri, 02 Apr 2004 14:00:18 -0500
Subject: GUI Frameworks in Python?
In-Reply-To: <45228044.0404021040.3860a027@posting.google.com>
References: <mailman.102.1080629227.20120.python-list@python.org>	<b5idnd8_MLmQg_Td4p2dnA@powergate.ca>	<cm9ac.8115$lt2.6537@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>	<FJGdnUG9P87T4fTdRVn-uQ@powergate.ca>	<mailman.117.1080656311.20120.python-list@python.org>	<qYCdna1kjd3fBPTdRVn-tw@powergate.ca>	<mailman.125.1080662935.20120.python-list@python.org>	<XbGdnfXcwoMmNvTdRVn-tA@powergate.ca>
	<45228044.0404021040.3860a027@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <406DB842.6090106@zope.com>

Chris Perkins wrote:
> I just upgraded from 2.4.2.4 to 2.5.1.5, and the start-up time for the
> demo app went from about 5 seconds to less than a second.

Wow!  I'd really like to know how this was accomplished.  Do you know? 
(Robin?)

Shane



From RobMEmmons at cs.com  Fri Apr 16 22:01:21 2004
From: RobMEmmons at cs.com (Robert M. Emmons)
Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2004 21:01:21 -0500
Subject: Difficulty Finding Python Developers
In-Reply-To: <407D6269.3090909@engcorp.com>
References: <65cbc3dd.0404140641.3501fde8@posting.google.com>
	<407D6269.3090909@engcorp.com>
Message-ID: <40808FF1.7060204@cs.com>

> I would actually suggest, however, that instead of hiring someone
> new for the position, take one of your talented existing programmers
> and have him or her learn Python while starting on this project.
> If the project goes well, you can more easily make the case for
> doing other projects with Python, and you might in the meantime
> have found some actual "Python programmers".  I still wouldn't
> hire them, however, if they didn't fit the afore-mentioned criteria...

I agree with Peter.  I learned python in an afternoon.  I'm not saying I 
was highly productive after 4 hours, but I could program and start 
working immediately.  Any good programmer should be able to do this.

For reference:  On the scale of programmers -- I'm not on the expert 
high end -- just someone that has many years of experience in a variety 
of languagues for a variety of small projects.   The ease and power of 
using python is what sold me immediately.  Very Cool...

Rob


From cmg at dok.org  Fri Apr 16 17:54:17 2004
From: cmg at dok.org (Chris Green)
Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2004 17:54:17 -0400
Subject: when does issubclass fail?
Message-ID: <m2n05by4fq.fsf@catbert.dok.org>

Heyas folks,

When does issubclass fail?  That's a loaded question so here's my test
case (also available at http://cmg.dok.org/code/classimports.tar.gz):

directory structure:

./test.py
./d/__init__.py
./d/b.py
./c/__init__.py
./c/a.py

#--------[a.py]---------
class A(object):
    pass
#------[end a.py]-------

#--------[b.py]---------
import sys
sys.path.append("/home/cmg/src/python/classtest/a")
class B(a.A):
    pass
#------[end b.py]-------

#--------[test.py]------
import c.a
import d.b
print issubclass(d.b.B,c.a.A)
#--------[end test.py]--

issubclass(d.b.B,c.a.A)  => False

I'm trying to figure out why this is failing. My guess is that there
are two distinct imports of a.A in memory though I can't come up with
a simple test case that makes this happen without manipulating
sys.path.

My goal is to define a baseclass BasePoller and then have user
configured directories searched for that baseclass so I can load
modules at run time.  Since I can't do absolute imports, I treat that
directory as a suitable spot to import from and do some fancy dir()
walking to find instances of my subclass.

This work fine as long as the path I search is contained within an
original element of the main init script.  I'm trying to handle the
case where the directory is specified as an absolute path and can't
come up with a way to make issubclass work.

Is there anyway out of this other than defining a special attribute I
can check for the presense of? 
-- 
Chris Green <cmg at dok.org>
A watched process never cores.


From mark at prothon.org  Tue Apr 20 17:31:20 2004
From: mark at prothon.org (Mark Hahn)
Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 14:31:20 -0700
Subject: Dollar sign ($) on foriegn keyboards? (prothon)
References: <mk3hc.13895$dZ1.10823@fed1read04>
	<mailman.793.1082468190.20120.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <IEghc.17557$dZ1.1035@fed1read04>

"Fredrik Lundh" <fredrik at pythonware.com> wrote ...

> any reason you cannot set up a mailing list for your little pet
> project?  you're generating tons of off-topic traffic, and frankly,
> I don't think I'm the only one who couldn't care less about your
> pre-alpha hack with minimum capabilities.
>
> (if I posted hundreds of messages for every pre-alpha hack I've
> ever made, people would quickly label me as an annoying crack-
> pot.)

Sorry if I annoy, but I've only posted a total of about 4 thread-starting
messages.  The hundreds of messages have been replies.

We do have active Prothon mailing lists, but no international members yet,
which is why I asked this particular question here.

When I posted my first Prothon messages, I asked if I should stay away from
c.l.p. out of courtesy.  I was specifically told to hang around here by
several of the top Pythoneers, because they view Prothon as a potential
learning ground, or sandbox, for Python.  So I will do so until those same
top Pythoneers tell me I have worn out my welcome, thank you very much.




From adalke at mindspring.com  Mon Apr  5 16:00:00 2004
From: adalke at mindspring.com (Andrew Dalke)
Date: Mon, 05 Apr 2004 20:00:00 GMT
Subject: allocate TWO interpreters in a C program?
References: <c4phk7$77o$1@schleim.qwe.de>
Message-ID: <4Vicc.16932$lt2.13201@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>

Torsten Mohr:
> i can embed Perl into a C program and allocate MORE THAN ONE
> interpreter if i want to.  They are independent from each other.
>
> Is this also possible in Python?

As no one else has answered, I'll take a stab at it, on the assumption
that a wrong answer will be corrected.

No, it isn't possible.  Various bits of state, like exceptions, are stored
in global variable (actually thread global I think).  I think there is other
global state, like sys.modules which contains all of the imported modules.

There are experimental systems like PyPy which can provide
independent interpreters but I know little about them.

                    Andrew
                    dalke at dalkescientific.com




From Joseph.V.Laughlin at boeing.com  Wed Apr 28 15:27:43 2004
From: Joseph.V.Laughlin at boeing.com (Laughlin, Joseph V)
Date: Wed, 28 Apr 2004 12:27:43 -0700
Subject: Using C libraries
Message-ID: <67B3A7DA6591BE439001F2736233351202876CE9@xch-nw-28.nw.nos.boeing.com>

I was thinking more along the lines of unix C libraries, not windows
DLL.

Also, has anyone had any success getting Python to use Ada data
structures?

Joe Laughlin

-----Original Message-----
From: Larry Bates [mailto:lbates at swamisoft.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, April 28, 2004 12:18 PM
To: python-list at python.org
Subject: Re: Using C libraries

Depends on what you mean by "difficulties".  I've interfaced
Python with lots of different .DLL libraries.  The "tricky"
part is getting enough information about the proper data
structures for calling the external functions.  Much study
of struct module is normally required.  And you need either
my DLLInterface code:

http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Cookbook/Python/Recipe/146847

or you can use Thomas Heller's ctypes module:

http://starship.python.net/crew/theller/ctypes/

Or you can roll your own...

Larry Bates
Syscon, Inc.

"Laughlin, Joseph V" <Joseph.V.Laughlin at boeing.com> wrote in message
news:mailman.92.1083177600.25742.python-list at python.org...
Has anyone had any difficulties using C libraries / data structures with
python?  Are there any things I need to be aware of?

Joe Laughlin
Phantom Works - Integrated Technology Development Labs
The Boeing Company





-- 
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list



From apardon at forel.vub.ac.be  Mon Apr 26 05:14:37 2004
From: apardon at forel.vub.ac.be (Antoon Pardon)
Date: 26 Apr 2004 09:14:37 GMT
Subject: CamelCase versus wide_names (Prothon)
References: <UHxfc.9323$dZ1.3740@fed1read04>
	<6e0680ac.0404211252.7f7b4358@posting.google.com>
	<4086DFA7.9736E7D3@alcyone.com>
	<roy-15454C.18080121042004@reader2.panix.com>
	<PdEhc.19536$dZ1.11964@fed1read04>
	<slrnc8hluh.s60.apardon@trout.vub.ac.be>
	<nkcic.28282$dZ1.27269@fed1read04>
Message-ID: <slrnc8pknt.s60.apardon@trout.vub.ac.be>

Op 2004-04-23, Mark Hahn schreef <mark at prothon.org>:
>
> "Antoon Pardon" <apardon at forel.vub.ac.be> wrote in message
> news:slrnc8hluh.s60.apardon at trout.vub.ac.be...
>
>>   copy(a)to(b)
>
> That's cool looking but I'm pretty sure impossible to parse the way you want
>:)

What is so hard to parse? It is just a sequence of components and
argumentlists. You just string the components together to form
an identifier and combine all the argumentlists into one.

> Although, out angle brackets are free in Prothon right now.  We could
> reserve them for that:
>
>     copy<a>to<b>.
>
> Interesting.  That would drive newbies to the language crazy :)  It sure is
> readable.  It kind of lets you design you own syntax inside the symbols.
>
> I must hand it to you.  That's one of the most creative crazy ideas I've
> seen lately.  It is refreshing to see fun creative feedback instead of the
> "your language is just Perl" type of feedback.
>
> Maybe you could hang out on Prothon-user ?

Where do I subscribe?

-- 
Antoon Pardon


From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Sat Apr 10 22:43:02 2004
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 10 Apr 2004 22:43:02 -0400
Subject: why is python better than eg. smalltalk?? no one has any solid
	arguments! you should all go to church with all that religious talk!
References: <mailman.440.1081414295.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<c59l5o$2faa0i$1@ID-180326.news.uni-berlin.de>
	<c59lvb$mtm$1@nemesis.news.tpi.pl>
Message-ID: <c5abbm$ko8$1@panix2.panix.com>

In article <c59lvb$mtm$1 at nemesis.news.tpi.pl>,
Jarek Zgoda  <jzgoda at gazeta.usun.pl> wrote:
>Jon Perez <jbperez808 at wahoo.com> pisze:
>>
>> For the past 10 years, I have been in search for a 'holy grail' of
>> a text editor and a language.  Something I could absolutely devote
>> myself to using.  After the dozens and dozens I've tried and looked
>> at, I can now say to myself that I have found what I've been looking
>> for with SciTE and Python.
>
>I didn't found *the editor* yet (although Eric3 looks very promising),
>but my opinion on Python is very similar.

I found my editor fifteen years ago.  Guess which it is.  (The point
being that there are only two editors still in regular use that were
available fifteen years ago -- and those two editors are still ubiquitous
now.  Doesn't matter much which you pick, they'll still be available
fifteen years in the future.)
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

Why is this newsgroup different from all other newsgroups?


From roy at panix.com  Sun Apr  4 19:23:24 2004
From: roy at panix.com (Roy Smith)
Date: Sun, 04 Apr 2004 19:23:24 -0400
Subject: Difference between default arguments and keyword arguments
References: <UmTbc.9904$NL4.4809@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net>
	<10713rf4bjl1bab@news.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <roy-98D913.19232404042004@reader1.panix.com>

"John Roth" <newsgroups at jhrothjr.com> wrote:
> In going through the tutorial I also noticed that it explained
> the * notation, but not the ** notation. I think this also needs
> to be repaired - if one is in the tutorial, both should be.

I suspect this will be an unpopular opinion, but I don't think either 
belong in the tutorial.

I think the function of a tutorial is to introduce somebody to the main 
features of the language, not cover every nook and cranny of the syntax.  
The * and ** syntaxes (synti?), while certainly useful, are also 
somewhat advanced topics.  I think their appearance in an introductory 
document is misplaced.


From ville at spammers.com  Sat Apr  3 03:22:12 2004
From: ville at spammers.com (Ville Vainio)
Date: 03 Apr 2004 11:22:12 +0300
Subject: Indent testers needed (Prothon)
References: <Unqbc.131025$cx5.57643@fed1read04>
	<noOdnTqctOE3pPPdRVn-tw@powergate.ca>
Message-ID: <du7wu4xlbd7.fsf@lehtori.cc.tut.fi>

>>>>> "Peter" == Peter Hansen <peter at engcorp.com> writes:

    Peter> I heard a rumour Python is heading for "no tabs", period.
    Peter> Why not just

I find this rumor hard to believe - there would have been some more
official announcement, and the resulting code breakage would be
major. Not all legacy code can be run through reindent.py either...

I think the most sensible thing would be to give warnings on mixed
indenting by default, not by some command line switch nobody
uses. Newbies get burned by it all the time. 

Alternatively, change the tab size as interpreted by Python to 321
spaces. The current assumption of 8 violates "explicit is better than
implicit".

-- 
Ville Vainio   http://tinyurl.com/2prnb


From premshree_python at yahoo.co.in  Fri Apr  9 05:12:42 2004
From: premshree_python at yahoo.co.in (=?iso-8859-1?q?Premshree=20Pillai?=)
Date: Fri, 9 Apr 2004 10:12:42 +0100 (BST)
Subject: pyAlbum.py - Python Album Generator
In-Reply-To: <c52lql$2ng6aj$1@ID-130333.news.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <20040409091242.50066.qmail@web8311.mail.in.yahoo.com>

 --- Cousin Stanley <CousinStanley at hotmail.com> wrote:
> Premshree ....
> 
>   Thanks for making your  pyAlbum.py  program
> available ....

Welcome!

> 
> A glimpse of what the Arizona desert east of Phoenix
> 
> toward  Globe  on  highway  US 60  looked like 
> last Sunday  April 04, 2004 ....
> 
>     http://fastq.com/~sckitching/Album_01 
> 
>     Photography by .... John C. Schluterbusch
> 
> The slide show was generated using 
> a locally edited version of your Python program
> pyAlbum  .... 

They are good.

> 
>    
>
http://premshree.resource-locator.com/python/pyAlbum.py
> 
> 
> It took about  100 Seconds  on  this machine 
> to generate the SlideShow for 31 images, 
> which includes ....  
> 
>     Generating ThumbNails  
>     Re-Sizing Images
>     Writing a CSS Style Sheet 
>     Writing the Index HTML Page 
>     Generating the Individual HTML Pages
> 
>  This machine .... 
> 
>       Compaq ...... 250 MHz
>       Memory ...... 192 MB
>       System ...... Win98_SE
>       Python ...... 2.3 Enthought Edition
>       PIL ......... 1.1.4
> 
>   So, for a  S L O W  machine,
>   100 Seconds  ain't too bad ....
> 

So you're happy with the script, eh? I'm glad to hear
that!

>   The edited version that I used ....
>  
>       http://fastq.com/~sckitching/Python/pyAlbum.py
> 
>       o Re-coded some of the  l o n g  string
> concatenations
>         and ''' Triple Quoted String  ''' % ( w , x
> , y , z ... ) substitutions
>         into  join( list_xxx )  function calls 
>         which seemed a bit more readble/editable 
> 
>       o Added a prompt and code for
> Including/Excluding  links
>         to Full-Size images
> 
>       o All other changes are basically coding style
> cosmetics .... 
> 
> 
>   Thanks again for a useful Python program ....

Welcome...again!

> 
> -- 
> Cousin Stanley
> Human Being
> Phoenix, Arizona
> 
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list 

=====
-Premshree
[http://www.qiksearch.com/]

________________________________________________________________________
Yahoo! India Matrimony: Find your partner online. http://yahoo.shaadi.com/india-matrimony/



From tdelaney at avaya.com  Wed Apr 28 20:52:48 2004
From: tdelaney at avaya.com (Delaney, Timothy C (Timothy))
Date: Thu, 29 Apr 2004 10:52:48 +1000
Subject: outline-style sorting algorithm
Message-ID: <338366A6D2E2CA4C9DAEAE652E12A1DE016BCAAF@au3010avexu1.global.avaya.com>

Thorsten Kampe wrote:

>>>>> foo
>> ['1.0', '1.0.1', '1.1.1', '1.2', '1.9', '1.10', '1.11', '1.20',
>> '1.20.1', '1.30']
>>>>> foo.sort()
>>>>> foo
>> ['1.0', '1.0.1', '1.1.1', '1.10', '1.11', '1.2', '1.20', '1.20.1',
>> '1.30', '1.9'] 
>> 
>> Obviously 1.20.1 should be after 1.9 if we look at this as
>> dot-delimited integers, not as decimal numbers.
> 
> You need some general approach to avoid the DSU thing:
> 
> def funcsort(seq, func):
>     """ sort seq by func(item) """
>     seq = seq[:]
>     seq.sort(lambda x, y: cmp(func(x), func(y)))
>     return seq
> 
> funcsort(foo, lambda x: map(int, x.split('.')))

I've seen you give this advice several times, today, and IMO it's
completely wrong.

DSU is *exactly* what you want to do. If you want to wrap it inside a
general function, that's fine, but DSU is in almost all cases preferred
to passing a comparison function - it's much faster.

    def sorted (seq, cmp=None, key=None):
        """ sort seq by func(item) """
        if key is None:
            seq = seq[:]
        else:
            seq = [(key(e), i, e) for i, e in enumerate(seq)]

        seq.sort(cmp)

        if key is None:
            return seq
        else:
            return [i[-1] for i in seq]

    foo = ['1.0', '1.0.1', '1.1.1', '1.2', '1.9', '1.10', '1.11',
'1.20', '1.20.1', '1.30']

    foo = sorted(foo, key=lambda x: map(int, x.split('.')))
    print foo

Note that Python 2.4 will have DSU as a built-in idiom to `list.sort`
i.e. `list.sort(key=func)` but will be somewhat more efficient than the
above. Likewise there will be a new builtin `sorted` which has exactly
the same semantics as the above - it is stable, and it does not ever
compare the actual value if a key function is supplied - only the key
value (the above also compares the position, but that's an
implementation detail and has no visible effect).

Tim Delaney



From maney at pobox.com  Thu Apr 29 14:17:52 2004
From: maney at pobox.com (Martin Maney)
Date: Thu, 29 Apr 2004 18:17:52 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: CamelCase versus wide_names (Prothon)
References: <UHxfc.9323$dZ1.3740@fed1read04>
	<407ec022$0$54153$1b2cd167@news.wanadoo.nl>
	<roy-C4FD90.13444715042004@reader2.panix.com>
	<b9Afc.9345$dZ1.7703@fed1read04>
	<geoc80tveo7uja595bti95q0dlslsjmcq5@4ax.com>
	<M0zhc.19121$dZ1.13729@fed1read04>
	<c67aqt$8pb4n$1@ID-169208.news.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <c6rgsg$7bb$1@wheel2.two14.net>

Greg Ewing <greg at cosc.canterbury.ac.nz> wrote:
> Mark Hahn wrote:
>> When I first started I thought everyone's opnion mattered and that I had the
>> job of merging eveyone's ideas into a grand scheme that made everyone happy
>> <hearty laugh>.

> That's the kind of process that gave us COBOL, Algol68 and Ada...

Sounds like there's something to be said for it, then.  One that's
still the underpinning for a scary portion of the heavy lifting behind
large corporations, one that died while leaving its influence all over
the next generation, and one that... well, two out of three is still
'way above average.

-- 
I look on the events of November and December 2000 in my own country,
and I reflect on what a truly science-fictional experience it is
to be living under an authentically illegitimate American government,
born of force and fraud.  -- Patrick Nielsen Hayden (in Starlight 3)


From fumanchu at amor.org  Sat Apr 10 20:22:40 2004
From: fumanchu at amor.org (Robert Brewer)
Date: Sat, 10 Apr 2004 17:22:40 -0700
Subject: new-style class instance check
Message-ID: <DE1CF2B4FEC4A342BF62B6B2B334601E561FE1@opus.amorhq.net>

Richard Gruet wrote:
> Robert
> 
> Thank you for your suggestion.
> But unfortunately, isNewStyleClassInstance(o) must return False for
> *everything but* an instance of a new-style class. If o is 
> e.g. a function:
> def foo(): pass
> foo.__class__.rmo
> <built-in method mro of type object at 0x1E0BA9E0>
> 
> so isNewStyleClassInstance(foo) would return True !

Yes, function() is new-style. So is int. I think what you're asking for
is not whether a given object is new-style or not, but whether it is a
*user-defined* new-style object (correct me if I'm wrong). The problem
with that approach occurs with, e.g.:

class RangedInt(int):
    def __init__(self, value, lower, upper):
        int.__init__(self, value)
        self.lower = lower
        self.upper = upper

Now, since int() creates new-style objects, should RangedInt pass your
test or not? If not, then you could simply check the mro to see that
there are only two values: the target class and "object":

>>> class C(object): pass
... 
>>> C.mro()
[<class '__main__.C'>, <type 'object'>]

...but if you want RangedInt(3) to pass when int(3) doesn't, you've got
more inspection to do:

>>> RangedInt.mro()
[<class '__main__.RangedInt'>, <type 'int'>, <type 'object'>]


Robert Brewer
MIS
Amor Ministries
fumanchu at amor.org



From claird at lairds.com  Wed Apr 21 13:21:37 2004
From: claird at lairds.com (Cameron Laird)
Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2004 17:21:37 -0000
Subject: This is very simple question
References: <b0457a31.0404210754.2a34b6be@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.840.1082563771.20120.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <108dbd1aftmkc48@corp.supernews.com>

In article <mailman.840.1082563771.20120.python-list at python.org>,
Brian Quinlan  <brian at sweetapp.com> wrote:
>
>> I would want to obtain a list of factors (multiples of 2) given a
>> prime number in python.
>> 
>> For example 13=[8,4,1], 5=[4,1], 7=[4,2,1], 15=[8,4,2,1]
>> 
>> I would appreciate a fuction which would do this.
>
>If we told you it wouldn't be fair to the other students in your class :-)
			.
			.
			.
I'm surprised only one of the responses I've seen so far has 
objected to what sure seems like an inappropriate response to
classwork.  I'm astonished that no one is reading this question
as I do.  I leave as an exercise for readers this generalization
of what *I* think is going on:

  def positional_addends(positive_integer, base = 2):
      result = []
      current = 1
      while positive_integer:
  	remainder = positive_integer % (base * current)
          if remainder:
              result.append(remainder)
              positive_integer -= remainder
          current *= base
      result.reverse()
      return result
  
  print positional_addends(13)
  print positional_addends(5)
  print positional_addends(7)
  print positional_addends(15)
  print positional_addends(78904, 10)

The real exercise is to convert this to a readable one-liner,
at least for the binary case.
-- 

Cameron Laird <claird at phaseit.net>
Business:  http://www.Phaseit.net


From richie at entrian.com  Thu Apr  1 15:46:06 2004
From: richie at entrian.com (Richie Hindle)
Date: Thu, 01 Apr 2004 21:46:06 +0100
Subject: ANNOUNCE: 'goto' for Python
In-Reply-To: <20040401193109.GA6475@nl.linux.org>
References: <n98m60drsk5ep9ugq6rh6uvg4jdnjtkihh@4ax.com>
	<20040401193109.GA6475@nl.linux.org>
Message-ID: <dmvo6099de7vppmjclbmf0tkrvt7tqvevm@4ax.com>


[Gerrit]
> Why don't we call goto '$@' and comefrom '@$'?

A bit verbose don't you think?  How about ">label" and "<label"?  "<" and
">" aren't currently used as unary operators.  Mind you, at least your
suggestion would confuse the perlistas.

-- 
Richie Hindle
richie at entrian.com




From peter at engcorp.com  Tue Apr 13 08:37:32 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2004 08:37:32 -0400
Subject: A new OS
In-Reply-To: <mailman.573.1081854506.20120.python-list@python.org>
References: <107k441hitt2ld9@corp.supernews.com>	<a8623416.0404120955.520215f2@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.573.1081854506.20120.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <6tadnVL-4_mRQubdRVn-tw@powergate.ca>

Gerrit wrote:
> http://sourceforge.net/projects/cleese
> http://cleese.sourceforge.net/
> 
> I don't believe in it.

Apparently no one else really does either, to judge from
http://cleese.sourceforge.net/cgi-bin/moin.cgi/RecentChanges

-Peter


From roy at panix.com  Thu Apr 22 23:14:51 2004
From: roy at panix.com (Roy Smith)
Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2004 23:14:51 -0400
Subject: Subclasses in Python
References: <b4a8ffb6.0404221855.7239bb82@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <roy-2F8A66.23145122042004@reader2.panix.com>

tkpmep at hotmail.com (Thomas Philips) wrote:
> I'm teaching myself programming using Python

I'm not sure how to parse that.  Do you mean, "I'm teaching myself 
programming, and I'm using Python", or do you mean, "I already know how 
to program, and now I'm teaching myself Python"?

> and have a question about subclasses. My game has two classes, Player 
> and Alien, with identical functions, and I want to make Player a base 
> class and Alien a derived class.
> [...]
> The two classes are almost identical, except that:
> 1. When a new player is instantiated or destroyed, Player.n is
> incremented/decremented, while when a new alien is instantiated,
> Alien.n is incremented/decremented.

It sounds from your description that you really want Player and Alien to 
both be subclasses of a common base class.  The reason I say that is 
because Player.n doesn't get incremented when you create an Alien.

> 2. When hit by an energy blast, the player and the alien have
> different thresholds below which they die.

Again, this sounds like two subclasses of a common base class; let's 
call it Humanoid.  It sounds like hit() and blast() belong in Humanoid, 
and the "n" attribute should be a class variable of Alien and Player, 
each of which have their own __init__().

It's not clear what to do with "self.strength = 100" which currently 
you've got in each Player.__init__() and Alien.__init__().  One 
possibility is that you could factor this out into Humanoid.__init__(), 
and have each of the subclass's __init__() call Humanoid.__init__ 
(self).  The other possibility is to just leave it in each subclass's 
__init__() and not have a base class __init__() at all.  The XP folks 
would yell "refactor mercilessly", but in this case I'm not sure it's 
justified.

BTW, there's nothing in the above that's specific to Python.  The same 
arguments would work in pretty much any OOPL.


From abingham at sfu.ca  Tue Apr  6 07:26:13 2004
From: abingham at sfu.ca (Aaron Bingham)
Date: Tue, 6 Apr 2004 13:26:13 +0200
Subject: Programatically Building MS Access DB
Message-ID: <20040406112613.GE11912@nomad>

Hello,

I am working on a Python app that has to output to an Access DB to keep
the customer happy.  If possible, I would like to construct the entire
database, including tables, querys, and forms, and also the odd simple
VM macro, programatically from Python.

I've successfully constructed the tables and queries, but I'm having
trouble building the forms.  In particular, I can set form properties
and create controls, but control properties are not saved when I save
the form, even if I open the form in design view from my code.

Attached is a little program that creates a DB with a table, 
and a form based on the table.  However, the fields on the form are not
placed correctly, nor are they bound to the source data.  Any ideas?

Thanks,

-- 

Aaron Bingham
abingham at sfu.ca
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From project5 at redrival.net  Fri Apr 30 18:04:00 2004
From: project5 at redrival.net (Andrei)
Date: Sat, 1 May 2004 00:04:00 +0200
Subject: Dictionnary vs Class for configuration
References: <40929016$0$8635$626a14ce@news.free.fr>
Message-ID: <1w1bel01epeem.yr92r722m4ok.dlg@40tude.net>

Famille Delorme wrote on Fri, 30 Apr 2004 19:38:53 +0200:

> The config_section variable is included in each modules (script python) used
> in my program
> (with from config.py import config_section)

I agree with the other posters that unless you know the end users know
Python, you shouldn't configure in Python code (well, unless you have a
system (e.g. GUI) to change it for people who don't know Python). 

> And the use is like this
>     from conf.py import config_sql
>     print config["DATABASE"]
> 
> But my master say it's better to do a class like this
> class config :
>     def __init__(self, part=="") :
>         if (part=="SQL") :
>             self.database="nanana"
>             self.userdb="bob"
>             self.password="*******"
>         elif (part=="SCRIPT") :
>             self.timetosleep=10
>             self.path="/home/script"
>         ....

Given the choice between dictionary and class, I would probably take the
dictionary, because it just has more of a "storage" feel to it. OTOH, the
class requires less typing of quotes, which slightly decreases the amount
of time spent on writing the program :).

> We have do only a file for configuration because the administrator is no
> searching for configuration.
> I want know :
>  - what is more faster, dictionnary method or class method?

Speed in this case is completely irrelevant.

>  - what use more ram memory ?

As long as you don't plan to have dozens of megabytes of configuration, I
don't really see why this would make any difference in your choice neither.

>  - if you are administrator, what method you like for configure program ?

GUI, INI file or, if constrained to your two options, the dictionary
approach. Dictionary is probably easier to understand and less intimidating
for non-programmers than the class. With the class being modified by
non-programmers I'd be very afraid they'd break indentation even if they
get the rest of the syntax right.

-- 
Yours,

Andrei

=====
Real contact info (decode with rot13):
cebwrpg5 at jnanqbb.ay. Fcnz-serr! Cyrnfr qb abg hfr va choyvp cbfgf. V ernq
gur yvfg, fb gurer'f ab arrq gb PP.


From me at privacy.net  Fri Apr  9 04:42:01 2004
From: me at privacy.net (Duncan Booth)
Date: 9 Apr 2004 08:42:01 GMT
Subject: Are line continuations needed?
References: <mailman.418.1081348606.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<1078dq6i93pc12d@news.supernews.com>
	<1078skqn9hgdd19@corp.supernews.com>
	<1079015hfg56i28@news.supernews.com>
	<Xns94C5601A46236duncanrcpcouk@127.0.0.1>
	<tAadc.41947$Id.13441@news-binary.blueyonder.co.uk>
	<c55811$4be$1@news.service.uci.edu>
Message-ID: <Xns94C662845863Dduncanrcpcouk@127.0.0.1>

Josiah Carlson <jcarlson at uci.edu> wrote in 
news:c55811$4be$1 at news.service.uci.edu:

> Graham Breed wrote:
> 
>>> I think that you might find there wasn't any indentation to lose. Read 
>>> the point more carefully and you might see he has a valid concern. 
>>> Consider this (none of the lines are indented):
>>>
>>> mystring = """\
>>> +---------------+
>>> |    '"         |
>>> +---------------+
>>> """
>>>
>>> Without a line continuation there simply isn't any way to write this 
>>> string and still have the box characters line up neatly.
>> 
>> 
>> mystring = """
>> +---------------+
>> |    '"         |
>> +---------------+
>> """[1:]
>> 
> 
> What about Windows?  You'd need to use [2:].

No, [1:] will work fine for windows. Windows stores files on disc with 
'\r\n' as line terminators, but Python (and most other programming 
languages) use '\n' internally as the line terminator.

> 
> I would also say that the trailing string slice is ugly.
> 
Agreed. Also it wouldn't work if you wanted the string as a docstring.


From richie at entrian.com  Thu Apr  1 10:25:54 2004
From: richie at entrian.com (Richie Hindle)
Date: Thu, 01 Apr 2004 16:25:54 +0100
Subject: Python as natural language (was Re: ANNOUNCE: 'goto' for Python
In-Reply-To: <du7ptarkbtb.fsf@mozart.cc.tut.fi>
References: <mailman.210.1080803438.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<du7ptarkbtb.fsf@mozart.cc.tut.fi>
Message-ID: <vcco60lahsmhbdkaah72ia45mludt16bbt@4ax.com>


[Richie]
> This adds the 'goto' and 'comefrom' keywords to Python

[Ville]
> I like it! I especially like the way comefrom maps to how we
> speak. You know, "come here when you are done with the first
> file". Programming is hard for the beginners because there really is
> no direct mapping of many everyday speech idioms, and comefrom goes a
> long way to redeem this for Python. 

Absolutely.

I should have referred to the definitive reference the 'comefrom' statement,
"A Linguistic Contribution to GOTO-less Programming" by R. Lawrence Clark in
Comm. ACM, Vol 27 Nr. 4 (pp. 349-350) (reprint from Datamation, Dec 1973).
[Thanks to Sjoerd Mullender for the full reference.]

I confess that although I've implemented the statement, I've never read this
seminal paper because I couldn't find a free-to-view copy on the web - I don't
suppose anyone knows where such a thing can be found?  I'd be interested to
see whether Mr Clark discusses the English-idiomatic nature of 'comefrom'.

> err = foo()
>     dostuff()
>     domorestuff()
> :if not err

Nice idea, though an 'unless' keyword would make for more idiomatic English
Python - we rarely say "if not".  Also, you probably want to write 'foo()'
*after* 'dostuff' even though it is executed before - consider this example:
"Go and buy some more lubricant, unless you find some in the fridge."

-- 
Richie Hindle
richie at entrian.com




From phil at riverbankcomputing.co.uk  Sat Apr  3 18:03:17 2004
From: phil at riverbankcomputing.co.uk (Phil Thompson)
Date: Sun, 4 Apr 2004 00:03:17 +0100
Subject: PyQt & PyKDE current snapshot
In-Reply-To: <9sb3k1-s7s.ln1@mcgonnagal.hogwarts.net>
References: <9sb3k1-s7s.ln1@mcgonnagal.hogwarts.net>
Message-ID: <200404040003.17691.phil@riverbankcomputing.co.uk>

On Saturday 03 April 2004 8:07 pm, Markus Zimmermann wrote:
> Hi,
> does anybody of you know, where to get a current snapshot of PyQt and
> PyKDE ?
> Thanx, Markus

http://www.river-bank.demon.co.uk/download/snaphots/PyQt/

...for PyQt. There are no snapshots of PyKDE, but expect a new release soon.

Phil



From project5 at redrival.net  Thu Apr 15 13:02:25 2004
From: project5 at redrival.net (Andrei)
Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2004 19:02:25 +0200
Subject: CamelCase versus wide_names (Prothon)
References: <UHxfc.9323$dZ1.3740@fed1read04>
Message-ID: <407ec022$0$54153$1b2cd167@news.wanadoo.nl>

Mark Hahn wrote on Thursday 15 April 2004 17:17:

> We have agreed in Prothon that unlike Python we are going to be 100%
> consistant in our var and method naming.  We will not have run-together
> words like iteritems, we are going to always have seperated words like
> has_key.

I don't like underscores in variable names for the same reason as
Brendan/OKB: they're hard to type and they slow me down because: a) it's
one extra keypress compared to MixedCase (or CamelCase - depending on who
you ask) and b) even at same word length, it takes longer for me to type
the underscore than any alphanumeric character. 

Personally I also find MixedCase easier to read than under_scores
(especially in code and especially when more than two words are
concatenated, e.g. AskUserPermission vs. ask_user_permission - the first is
immediateyl obvious as being one word, the second might fool me at first
(quick) glance into thinking it's three words). I'm not sure if this
universally true or just a matter of what I'm used to.

-- 
Yours,

Andrei

=====
Real contact info (decode with rot13):
cebwrpg5 at jnanqbb.ay. Fcnz-serr! Cyrnfr qb abg hfr va choyvp cbfgf. V ernq
gur yvfg, fb gurer'f ab arrq gb PP.


From lubowiecka at go2.pl  Tue Apr 13 03:10:57 2004
From: lubowiecka at go2.pl (Sylwia)
Date: 13 Apr 2004 00:10:57 -0700
Subject: how to force a python service to reconfigure itself after
	updating?
References: <c548h3$8gh$1@nemesis.news.tpi.pl>
	<bdGdnceh5fdMKOvd4p2dnA@comcast.com>
Message-ID: <f6554b84.0404122310.44603323@posting.google.com>

Thanks for help!

Best wishes,

Farraige

"Larry Bates" <lbates at swamisoft.com> wrote in message news:<bdGdnceh5fdMKOvd4p2dnA at comcast.com>...
> You could move the reading of the configuration
> file inside the loop so it is read each time
> the service wakes up.  Unless your configuration
> file is huge (10,000+ lines), the overhead is
> negligible.
> 
> The other alternative is to put a socket server
> inside the service and have a small external
> program to send something to it when it needs
> to reread the config file.


From mark at prothon.org  Thu Apr 22 21:15:42 2004
From: mark at prothon.org (Mark Hahn)
Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2004 18:15:42 -0700
Subject: Why we will use obj$func() often
References: <d2Uhc.22272$dZ1.1600@fed1read04> <84Uhc.22278$dZ1.5087@fed1read04>
	<mailman.927.1082665370.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<8AWhc.23114$dZ1.11070@fed1read04> <40883BFE.B381518A@alcyone.com>
Message-ID: <27_hc.23801$dZ1.2716@fed1read04>


"Erik Max Francis" <max at alcyone.com> wrote ...

> Says the guy who's introducing a new operator to his language before
> even understanding the behavior of the original one, by his own
> admission ...

Well, I do tend to exaggerate a bit.  I can understand it when I study it,
but in everyday coding it does not roll off my fingers.  Also, it is
possible to design something new without understanding the old.  It might
even be an advantage in some circumstances to not be tainted by old
concepts.

I am serious when I say I think that Python has headed off into egghead land
a bit and I feel that keeps a lot of people from switching to it.  I think
that this heady stuff scares them off.  I really am trying to make things
simpler in Prothon.  Now, whether I can succeed or not is another question.
Only time will tell.




From donn at drizzle.com  Sat Apr 24 01:04:38 2004
From: donn at drizzle.com (Donn Cave)
Date: Sat, 24 Apr 2004 05:04:38 -0000
Subject: Why we will use obj$func() often
References: <d2Uhc.22272$dZ1.1600@fed1read04> <84Uhc.22278$dZ1.5087@fed1read04>
	<mailman.927.1082665370.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<8AWhc.23114$dZ1.11070@fed1read04> <40883BFE.B381518A@alcyone.com>
	<27_hc.23801$dZ1.2716@fed1read04> <40887145.789A2FE8@alcyone.com>
	<7cki80hj976bia36lhf9er97v073o1pqvm@4ax.com>
	<w8dic.28710$dZ1.11206@fed1read04> <ulXiAls/KH1K089yn@the-wire.com>
	<lkfic.29767$dZ1.17301@fed1read04>
	<donn-66132E.15345723042004@nntp3.u.washington.edu>
	<PLhic.30493$dZ1.22063@fed1read04>
Message-ID: <1082783076.585831@yasure>

Quoth "Mark Hahn" <mark at prothon.org>:
...
| ...  & just
| tells the compiler where to find the variable, just like capitalized
| variables in Prothon say to find them in the global space and .var says to
| find var in self.
...
| The whole point is to make things simpler, more readable, and more
| efficient, but when people see the & symbol they somehow automatically think
| it's complex.  Maybe my mind doesn't work like everyone else's.

It may be one the language inventor's perils - hard to communicate
with people in a language you just invented for the purpose!

To me, if you want simple - this counter closure thing is done
better with an object.  It's weird, unnatural and sounds like
an implementation headache to support persistence in a function
local variable namespace.  I don't know if Python does that
already, but that wouldn't make it any better.  When I want
a thing with persistent data, I'm thinking of an object.  One
must keep things simple.

I think if I were writing a language from scratch, one that's
vaguely similar to Python but not especially, I might seriously
consider what I believe we call lexical scoping, and a declaration -
not assigning a type, but an initial value, like "let x = 0".
Namespaces like Python's would be for objects - modules, classes,
class instances, whatever - not functions - and would be purely
explicit, not implicit like a scope (I think that would most
conspicuously require some alternative for "def" statements,
for example.)

	Donn Cave, donn at drizzle.com


From "Charles Krug" at cdksystems.com  Tue Apr 13 09:34:09 2004
From: "Charles Krug" at cdksystems.com (U-CDK_CHARLES\Charles)
Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2004 13:34:09 GMT
Subject: Starting a Python COM server from vb?
References: <fQAec.12308$d8.1258@nwrdny01.gnilink.net>
	<407B3592.7010508@cs.com>
Message-ID: <l%Rec.48962$1y1.14543@nwrdny03.gnilink.net>

On Mon, 12 Apr 2004 19:34:26 -0500, Robert M. Emmons <RobMEmmons at cs.com> wrote:
>
>> Pretty much what it says.
>> 
>> I've a number of Python services that I'd like to use from vb.  The
>> hitch is ensuring the services are started before the VB program tries
>> to use them.
>> 
>> Startup folder isn't a good solution, as folks sometimes putter with
>> their startup folder options.
>> 
>> Is it as simple as exec()-ing the service script?  That IS workable,
>> provided VB's exec() function plays nice and allows the service to run.
>
> Maybe I missunderstand -- but as far as I know there are NO reasons to 
> RUN anything before you use it.  Only thing you need to do is to 
> register your Python COM servers.
>
> When you use them in VB, just instantiate them like any other COM 
> object.  Python is not special in any way.
>
> Rob

How do I ensure that the service is registered?  Does this need to
happen after every bootup?

Yes, I AM confused about Win32 services, thank you for noticing :-)


Charles



From jacek.generowicz at cern.ch  Thu Apr 22 12:11:50 2004
From: jacek.generowicz at cern.ch (Jacek Generowicz)
Date: 22 Apr 2004 18:11:50 +0200
Subject: AOP use cases
References: <84fc4588.0404140106.3fa0c55@posting.google.com>
	<slrnc7q1ss.1aa.alf@largo.fayauffre.org>
	<cb035744.0404141130.170f51c4@posting.google.com>
	<slrnc7sgat.vp.alf@largo.fayauffre.org>
	<cb035744.0404160442.2f0b1661@posting.google.com>
	<0pydnSB4WYuieuLdRVn-hQ@powergate.ca>
	<tyfbrlkv3ae.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
	<XYmdnVLB9rjbARrdRVn-vg@powergate.ca>
	<tyf7jw8utoo.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
	<c68fj5$7bt$1@news1.wdf.sap-ag.de>
Message-ID: <tyfvfjst2k9.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>

"Daniel Dittmar" <daniel.dittmar at sap.com> writes:

> Jacek Generowicz wrote:
> >>>           SEPARATION OF CONCERNS. [snip]
> 
> C moved the I/O from the language to a library. This is separation of
> concerns

Not really. By separation of concerns I mean:

  Where previously you had to keep two orthogonal goals in mind in a
  single chunk of code, you now deal with each goal separately.

Stupid example:

  def foo(a):
      print "before", a
      a.sort()
      print "after", a
      ...
      print "before", a
      a.reverse()
      print "after", a

  foo(bar)

In the above you are manually mixing the concern of modifying an
object, with the concern of tracking its changes. In the following you
separate them.

  # Worry about the modifications you want to make
  def foo(a):
      a.sort()
      ...
      a.reverse()

  # Worry about tracking changes to an object
  class mutation_reporter:
      def __init__(self, obj):
          self.obj = obj
      def __getattr__(self, name):
          if name in mutating_methods:
              print "before", self
              self.blah(name)
              print "after", self
      def __setattr__(...):
          ...

  # Weave together the separate concerns.
  foo(mutation_reporter(bar))


Is this AOP? Should I care?

Is it useful? Should I care?

(I guess the way one answers questions 2 and 4, is ... err
... interesting.)


From jzgoda at gazeta.usun.pl  Wed Apr  7 16:53:54 2004
From: jzgoda at gazeta.usun.pl (Jarek Zgoda)
Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2004 20:53:54 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [OT] The Cracker's Guide To Python
References: <04g770lqpbhdgr3n3b9mnu9o8f08fdkgk0@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <c51pp0$a1k$2@atlantis.news.tpi.pl>

Christos TZOTZIOY Georgiou <tzot at sil-tec.gr> pisze:

> yesterday afternoon I happened to be in the company of youngsters, and I
> overheard them talking about the whereabouts of the crack of the latest
> version of some famous video editing software... instead of preaching
> about legalities at first etc, I asked:
> 
> "What exactly do you need this software for?"
> 
> "I have two avi files and I want to join them..."
> 
> "Why don't you download VirtualDub and do your job then?  Google for it,
> it's open source and you can download it freely."
> 
> "So I don't need a crack for it?"
> 
> ... (!)

This reminds me some guy that downloaded his copy of MDK9.2 CD images by
Kazaa arguing that "something of any commercial value can not be
downloaded freely".

> It's a crazy world...

Indeed!

-- 
Jarek Zgoda
http://jpa.berlios.de/
NP: Nick Cave & the Bad Seeds - Sweetheart Come



From michele.simionato at poste.it  Mon Apr  5 10:50:57 2004
From: michele.simionato at poste.it (Michele Simionato)
Date: 5 Apr 2004 07:50:57 -0700
Subject: [maybe OT] Making posters
References: <95aa1afa.0404030143.58c32975@posting.google.com>
	<tyfhdvyzway.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
Message-ID: <95aa1afa.0404050650.2d39b1a5@posting.google.com>

Jacek Generowicz <jacek.generowicz at cern.ch> wrote in message news:<tyfhdvyzway.fsf at pcepsft001.cern.ch>...
> michele.simionato at poste.it (Michele Simionato) writes:
> 
> > I am looking for a tool taking a postscript file and enlarging it to
> > make a poster.
> 
> It's called "Postscript".
> 
> You could start by looking here:
> 
> http://www.cs.indiana.edu/docproject/programming/postscript/operators.html#scale

What I do not understand is if the "scale" operator automatically splits
the graph in many pages if it becomes too large. Anyway, I have found a way
to get what I want from GraphViz, but I cannot check it since the printer
died just today! :-(


    Michele Simionato


From anton at vredegoor.doge.nl  Tue Apr 13 10:29:56 2004
From: anton at vredegoor.doge.nl (Anton Vredegoor)
Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2004 16:29:56 +0200
Subject: A new OS
References: <107k441hitt2ld9@corp.supernews.com>
	<107lskfjvqvc3e5@corp.supernews.com>
	<Xns94CA81F21FC80cpl19ghumspamgourmet@62.153.159.134>
Message-ID: <407bf968$0$119$3a628fcd@reader3.nntp.hccnet.nl>

Harald Massa <cpl.19.ghum at spamgourmet.com> wrote:

>I propose you should take a look at PyPy first.
>
>PyPy is an attempt to realise Python in Python. Because "IN THE END" your 
>Operating System must run on existing hardware. And there is a step between 
>Python and Assembler... 
>
>With standard CPython it is C-language, with Jython it is Java.
>
>But there can be C-Errors in Python and C-Errors within Java ... so to get 
>"only Python", you need a PythonPython first.
>
>Am I wrong?

Yes I think so. PyPy is a nice project, but it is a kind of all or
nothing project. What is needed is something like Prothon, but even
smaller. 

Prothon is using a set of separate dlls (f.e. dict.dll, list.dll etc.)
to provide the basic objects. This is a lot better than what Python is
doing at the moment, because Python depends on one megadll
(pythonxx.dll) for these objects.

The problem with this approach is that all objects have to be compiled
using the same compiler, while it would theoretically be possible to
write one dll using C, another using Lisp another using assembler and
another using something else.

Prothon theoretically could do that, but it loads the basic dlls the
moment the interpreter is started, which makes it dependent on having
all these dlls available (and possibly all dlls need to be compiled
using the same compiler, I don't know about that).

What is needed for Python to come closer to the OS and to enable it to
advance faster is a bootstrapping interpreter which basically only
provides a ctypes alike functionality that enables it to import a set
of basic Python object dlls in the same way as if it were standard
operating system dlls. It would make no difference for the interpreter
if it imported dict.dll or for example kernel32.dll, but of course
this strategy would introduce needing to have *some* dlls imported
before all others in order to provide basic functionality. This is
currently necessary for the __future__ extension too so there is a
precedent already. I expect such a beast to have a footprint of about
100k.

There would be no problems with Python extensions needing to be
compiled with a certain C-compiler since all dlls would be required to
conform to the dlls of the operating system. 

This would bring Python a lot closer to seamless interaction with the
operating system and enable it to eventually turn into not a
completely separate operating system but into something akin to Cygwin
(which is a kind of Linux running under Windows).

Another advantage would be that it would be possible to update Python
in smaller steps, for example only a newer dict.dll, this time a dll
written in assembler or even in Lisp. For systems that don't have this
compilers older dict.dll files would still be available.

Some Python scripts could have a really small footprint as if it were
Lua scripts because we only need to provide those dlls that the script
uses, sometimes only dlls that the operating system already has, or
dlls that are in Cygwin, Visual Basic or C# and which are freely
available on the net. In the latter case probably some flexible dll
loader functionality would be necessary, hence the need for ctypes.

Or we could compile the necessary dlls on the fly using a Python
compile-to-os-specific-dll script that only needed a few standard
Python dlls itself.

Since I'm not an OS-guru or even know a lot about the lower level
details (though I have been able to write and compile extensions in C)
I might be wrong about the feasibility of such a project (maybe it can
be done but the standardization of dll interfaces would be
prohibitively difficult given Pythons dynamic and platform independent
development cycle) but I remain confident that this is the way to go. 

(I'm Dutch you know, so I can't be proven wrong unless you've got a
timemachine, I have used mine to post the same kind of idea about half
a year ago and I *will* use it to retroactively fix *this* post in
case there are problems with it :-))

Anton






From greg at cosc.canterbury.ac.nz  Wed Apr 28 02:33:24 2004
From: greg at cosc.canterbury.ac.nz (Greg Ewing)
Date: Wed, 28 Apr 2004 18:33:24 +1200
Subject: Ideas for Python 3
In-Reply-To: <s1pt80h988ucqd8vbrd3occhpagtpssigg@4ax.com>
References: <s1pt80h988ucqd8vbrd3occhpagtpssigg@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <c6nj7m$e4nr8$1@ID-169208.news.uni-berlin.de>

David MacQuigg wrote:
> Explanation of Simplified Instance Variables
> --------------------------------------------
> """ Some of the variables inside the functions in a prototype have a
> leading dot.  This is to distinguish local variables in the function
> from "instance variables".  When a function is called from an instance
> ( cat1.talk() ) a special global variable __self__ is automatically
> assigned to that instance ( __self__ = cat1 )  Then when the function
> needs an instance variable ( .sound ) it uses __self__ just as if you
> had typed it in front of the dot ( __self__.sound )  The leading dot
> is just an abbreviation to avoid typing __self__ everywhere.  """

Explanation of Python Instance Variables, Omitting Unnecessary Words
--------------------------------------------------------------------

When a function is called from an instance (e.g. cat1.talk()),
the instance is passed in as an extra parameter at the beginning
of the parameter list, conventionally named 'self'. This allows
you to refer to attributes of the instance as 'self.attrname'
(e.g. self.sound).

========== END ==============

(I've left out mention of the difference between classes and
instances, as you did in your explanation even though it's just
as important in your scheme. Including it still wouldn't make
my explanation significantly longer than yours.)

-- 
Greg Ewing, Computer Science Dept,
University of Canterbury,	
Christchurch, New Zealand
http://www.cosc.canterbury.ac.nz/~greg



From FBatista at uniFON.com.ar  Tue Apr 27 15:21:02 2004
From: FBatista at uniFON.com.ar (Batista, Facundo)
Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2004 16:21:02 -0300
Subject: Tkinter vs. wxPython?
Message-ID: <A128D751272CD411BC9200508BC2194D0338390A@escpl.tcp.com.ar>

[claird at lairds.com]
			.
#- And then you'll write up the experience so the rest of us
#- can benefit from your experiment?

My plan was not to document the experience: I'm writing this code at lunch
time at work, so it's kinda distributed in weeks. And, it's my first code in
Tkinter, so it won't represent what anyone can do with experience.

But, I was planning to write an essay about the differences between both
finished codes. I'll post the link to the list!

.	Facundo



From CousinStanley at hotmail.com  Thu Apr  1 18:16:17 2004
From: CousinStanley at hotmail.com (Cousin Stanley)
Date: Thu, 1 Apr 2004 16:16:17 -0700
Subject: ANNOUNCE: 'goto' for Python
References: <n98m60drsk5ep9ugq6rh6uvg4jdnjtkihh@4ax.com><20040401193109.GA6475@nl.linux.org>
	<mailman.247.1080852374.20120.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <c4i7qs$2ip3m3$1@ID-130333.news.uni-berlin.de>

| ....
| How about ">label" and "<label"?  "<" and ">" 
| aren't currently used as unary operators
| ....

  The Multics OS used the  >  and  <  characters for paths 
  with  >  indicating a move deeper into the hierarchy
  and   <  indicating a move higher in   the hierarchy
  and used for relative paths .... 

      http://www.multicians.org 

  I liked it ....

-- 
Cousin Stanley
Human Being
Phoenix, Arizona



From peter at engcorp.com  Thu Apr 15 06:11:02 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2004 06:11:02 -0400
Subject: Getters and setters in python, common practise
In-Reply-To: <407e402c$1@newsflash.abo.fi>
References: <407e402c$1@newsflash.abo.fi>
Message-ID: <xfydnUmny4UrwuPd4p2dnA@powergate.ca>

Petter Holmstr?m wrote:

> Having a Delphi/Object Pascal-background, I'm very used to using getters 
> and setters when designing my classes. What is the common practise in 
> the Python world? Should one use them or not?

Max described the common practice (don't use them until you actually
need them) but forgot to mention that in recent versions of Python
you can use "properties", in pretty much the same manner as Delphi
uses them.

Again though it's common, unless you are still tied to experience
in another language (such as Java), not to use even properties
until you actually have a case where it's really necessary.  Most
Python code just directly accesses the attributes and winds up
much cleaner as a result.

Even historically you could implement the equivalent of get/set
under the covers after the fact, using __getattr__ and its ilk,
but that's now been made mostly obsolete with properties.

-Peter


From john at spock.fcs.uga.edu  Mon Apr 12 11:15:19 2004
From: john at spock.fcs.uga.edu (John Taylor)
Date: 12 Apr 2004 15:15:19 GMT
Subject: Problem with dates and daylight savings...
Message-ID: <c5ebq7$nls$1@cronkite.cc.uga.edu>

I was wondering if some one could explain this anomaly.  I wrote a program to add/subtract
dates.  For example,

./ComputeDay.py 2004/04/12 -7 %Y/%m/%d
2004/04/05

Here is the anomaly....
./ComputeDay.py 2004/04/12 -8 %Y/%m/%d
2004/04/03

I would have thought this would have returned the 4th.  I have a feeling that daylight savings
has something to do with this, as the time changed on the 3rd.
Can someone explain this?  How can I correct this problem?

./ComputeDay.py 2004/04/12 -9 %Y/%m/%d
2004/04/02



Thanks,
-John


Here is the code:

#!/usr/bin/env python2

##
## ComputeDay.py
## John Taylor, Apr 12, 2004
##

import time
import sys

############################################################################

def Usage():
	print
	print "Usage: %s [ t1 ] [ n ] [ format string ]" % sys.argv[0]
	print "Given arguments t1 and n, where n is a positvie or negative number,"
	print "return the date +/- t1"
	print """format should be a date format string, such as: %Y/%m/%d"""
	print "See the man page for strptime for formatting options"
	print
	print "Example:", sys.argv[0], "2004/03/01 -1 %Y/%m/%d"
	print
	sys.exit()


############################################################################

def main():
	if len(sys.argv) != 4:
		Usage()

	fmt = sys.argv[3]

	try:
		t1 = time.strptime(sys.argv[1], fmt)
	except ValueError, e:
		print "Error for t1: ", e
		return

	try:
		n = int(sys.argv[2])
	except ValueError, e:
		print "Error for n: ", e
		return

	oneday = 60 * 60 * 24 * 1.0
	diff = time.mktime(t1) + (n * oneday)
	diff = time.localtime(diff)

	try:
		result = time.strftime(fmt, diff)
	except ValueError, e:
		print "Error for result: ", e
		return

	print "%s" % ( result )

############################################################################

main()


-- end of code



From mark at prothon.org  Thu Apr 22 23:31:41 2004
From: mark at prothon.org (Mark Hahn)
Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2004 20:31:41 -0700
Subject: Why we will use obj$func() often
References: <d2Uhc.22272$dZ1.1600@fed1read04> <84Uhc.22278$dZ1.5087@fed1read04>
	<mailman.927.1082665370.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<8AWhc.23114$dZ1.11070@fed1read04> <40883BFE.B381518A@alcyone.com>
	<27_hc.23801$dZ1.2716@fed1read04> <40887145.789A2FE8@alcyone.com>
Message-ID: <x60ic.23986$dZ1.13511@fed1read04>


"Erik Max Francis" <max at alcyone.com> wrote in message
news:40887145.789A2FE8 at alcyone.com...

> Seriously considering every single possible proposal is not constructive.

I could see one making an argument about efficiency, but to say it's not
constructive is ludicrous.

> Without a strong sense of what the language should look
> like, Prothon is going to continue to look more and more like Perl.
> It's already most of the way there.

You haven't seen the final product.  My design process is (and always has
been) to go through an expansion phase where more and more gets added or at
least considered and then through a contraction phase where the fat gets cut
out.  I find this process works very well.

Please hold off your ad hominem attacks until the product is designed, thank
you very much.




From chrisl_ak at hotmail.com  Wed Apr 14 14:22:25 2004
From: chrisl_ak at hotmail.com (Chris)
Date: 14 Apr 2004 11:22:25 -0700
Subject: Python for Presentations
Message-ID: <b62b39cb.0404141022.2a5c61ec@posting.google.com>

Is anyone aware of Python packages/software for generating
"presentations"-- something that can generate a nice XHTML/CSS or PDF
presentation would be cool. I am looking for a better alternative to
PowerPoint for building presentation slides, and if that alternative
used Python, that would be even better.

Otherwise I could use LaTeX or something, I suppose.


From mwh at python.net  Fri Apr  2 05:15:59 2004
From: mwh at python.net (Michael Hudson)
Date: Fri, 2 Apr 2004 10:15:59 GMT
Subject: IPC share queue
References: <mailman.262.1080899212.20120.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <m3ptaqvg69.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk>

"Joe Wong" <joewong at mango.cc> writes:

> Hi, the buildin Queue() class is good to use among multiple threads
> in the program. Is there anything similar to this across process
> boundary?

I don't believe so.  There's POSH: http://poshmodule.sourceforge.net/,
which could probably be used to build something similar.  I believe
POSH is x86 only at the moment, but that's probably fixable by someone
with sufficient knowledge and energy...

Cheers,
mwh

-- 
  The Internet is full.  Go away.
                      -- http://www.disobey.com/devilshat/ds011101.htm


From eeide at cs.utah.edu  Mon Apr 26 12:32:20 2004
From: eeide at cs.utah.edu (Eric Eide)
Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2004 10:32:20 -0600 (MDT)
Subject: AOP use cases
References: <84fc4588.0404140106.3fa0c55@posting.google.com>
	<slrnc7q1ss.1aa.alf@largo.fayauffre.org>
	<cb035744.0404141130.170f51c4@posting.google.com>
	<slrnc7sgat.vp.alf@largo.fayauffre.org>
	<cb035744.0404160442.2f0b1661@posting.google.com>
	<0pydnSB4WYuieuLdRVn-hQ@powergate.ca> <uekqdjn7k.fsf@broadpark.no>
	<TYqdnZRX9Og5OBfdRVn-sA@powergate.ca>
	<ywrbrle211o.fsf@ioka.flux.utah.edu>
	<7NudnQB0EdLerxDdRVn_iw@powergate.ca>
Message-ID: <ywrzn8yzomj.fsf@ioka.flux.utah.edu>

"Peter" == Peter Hansen <peter at engcorp.com> writes:

	>> <http://doi.acm.org/10.1145/976270.976279>

	Peter> Thanks, but """Full-Text is a controlled feature.
	Peter>    To access this feature:
	Peter>      * Please login with your ACM Web Account.
	Peter>      * Please review the requirements below.
	Peter> """
	Peter> 
	Peter> And it appears memberships must be purchased.

Yes, it is true that some sort of ACM membership (individual or institutional)
is required in order to access the ACM Digital Library.

Those of you who are interested in the paper that I mentioned can probably get
a copy by sending email to the authors (who are listed on the cited Web page).
Most authors of conference papers are happy to send copies to interested
parties; just ask them :-)!

I won't post the authors' email addresses here, for fear of increasing their
spam load --- but their addresses are easy to find via Google.

Eric.

-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Eric Eide <eeide at cs.utah.edu>  .         University of Utah School of Computing
http://www.cs.utah.edu/~eeide/ . +1 (801) 585-5512 voice, +1 (801) 581-5843 FAX


From Kyler at news.Lairds.org  Wed Apr 28 14:08:31 2004
From: Kyler at news.Lairds.org (Kyler Laird)
Date: Wed, 28 Apr 2004 18:08:31 GMT
Subject: sending an object - twisted or what?
References: <c6llh1$1k8$1@sparta.btinternet.com>
	<20040427152051.50234c65.mutah@NOSPAM-libertysurf.fr>
	<c6nr1j$g8$1@hercules.btinternet.com>
	<ucj4m1-5a5.ln1@snout.lairds.org>
	<c6oiui$huh$1@sparta.btinternet.com>
Message-ID: <s875m1-rbb.ln1@snout.lairds.org>

"Paul Sweeney" <reverse.ku.oc.issolok at nothypgnal.delrest.co.uk> writes:

>> SSH is typically available (and already running as a daemon) on most
>> computers I touch these days.  It would provide for the secure
>> transport needed.  Any reason not to use it?

>It's quite likely this is going the way of xml-rpc over ssh.

That seems like a bit of overhead for something that might be simpler.
(I'm making guesses about your situation.)  Both sides are running
Python so it could just be a matter of pickling the object, pushing it
to the other side, and unpickling it, right?

--kyler


From wouter at voti.nl  Mon Apr 19 04:12:56 2004
From: wouter at voti.nl (Wouter van Ooijen www.voti.nl)
Date: Mon, 19 Apr 2004 08:12:56 GMT
Subject: using a USB HID device
References: <40827ce3.1151345337@news.xs4all.nl>	<c5ufh6$rok$02$1@news.t-online.com>	<4082e29d.1177387563@news.xs4all.nl>
	<mailman.746.1082320568.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<c5vo2p$ed6$02$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <4083899d.1220139618@news.xs4all.nl>

>OTOH, it may well be that USB devices, on Windows, cannot be
>accessed purely from user mode, and that you always need some
>sort of kernel driver.

But I can live with something that appears to be pure python, like one
which only requires a win-specific addition. after all win32all is
windows-specific too, but I regard it as part of the windows-python
installation. One more dll is no problem, as long as I don't have to
write (and maintain!) it :)



Wouter van Ooijen

-- ------------------------------------
http://www.voti.nl
PICmicro chips, programmers, consulting


From edwin at localhost.localdomain  Sat Apr  3 17:32:30 2004
From: edwin at localhost.localdomain (Edwin Young)
Date: 03 Apr 2004 14:32:30 -0800
Subject: minor bug in cmath.asin?
Message-ID: <m3y8pcr8u9.fsf@localhost.localdomain>


Hi,

I think there might (emphasize might) be a minor bug in Python's cmath library.

Basically, Python says cmath.asin(0) = 0-0j (+0 real part, -0 imaginary part). 

I think it should be 0+0j (+0 for both parts). The official formula is at

http://functions.wolfram.com/ElementaryFunctions/ArcSin/02/

and is asin(z) = -i * log(i*z + sqrt(1 - z*z))

Which is slightly ambiguous. I read it as:

(+0 - 1i) * log(i*z + sqrt(1 - z*z))

But Python's implementation in cmathmodule.c is essentially:

-(i * log(i*z + sqrt(1 - z*z)))

Which is basically the same as = (-0 - 1i) * log(i*z + sqrt(1 - z*z))

The only difference is +0 vs -0, which not many people will care
about, but I thought I'd mention it.

Regards,
--
Edwin


From nhodgson at bigpond.net.au  Tue Apr 27 08:15:11 2004
From: nhodgson at bigpond.net.au (Neil Hodgson)
Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2004 12:15:11 GMT
Subject: How to map python's unicode stuff to a wchar_t based api?
References: <mailman.27.1083004112.25742.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <j9sjc.535$TT.232@news-server.bigpond.net.au>

Ames Andreas:

> Therefore I have a default argument useUnicode and
> if possible I want to get rid of the
>
> if (PyObject_IsTrue(useUnicode)) {
>    doTheUnicodeStuff();
>    ...
> }
> else {
>    doTheAnsiThingWhichLooksAlmostIdenticalToTheAboveButJustAlmost();
>    ...
> }
>
> annoyance in almost any function.


   To support Unicode file names on Win32, the convention described in PEP
277 is to call the wide API when the argument was Unicode, otherwise call
the ANSI API. From src/Modules/posixmodule.c this looks like

#ifdef Py_WIN_WIDE_FILENAMES
 if (unicode_file_names()) {
  PyUnicodeObject *po;
  if (PyArg_ParseTuple(args, "Ui:access", &po, &mode)) {
   Py_BEGIN_ALLOW_THREADS
   /* PyUnicode_AS_UNICODE OK without thread lock as
      it is a simple dereference. */
   res = _waccess(PyUnicode_AS_UNICODE(po), mode);
   Py_END_ALLOW_THREADS
   return(PyBool_FromLong(res == 0));
  }
  /* Drop the argument parsing error as narrow strings
     are also valid. */
  PyErr_Clear();
 }
#endif

   This code then falls through to the ANSI API.

   Py_WIN_WIDE_FILENAMES is only defined (in src/PC/pyconfig.h) when Python
is using 2 byte wide Unicode characters (Py_UNICODE_SIZE == 2), thus
ensuring that the result on Win32 of PyUnicode_AS_UNICODE is equivalent to
wchar_t*.

   Whether PY_UNICODE_TYPE is wchar_t depends on platform and other
definitions.

   The extra code required for PEP 277 adds to size and obscures intent.
Various code reduction techniques can be alleviate this such as posix_1str
in posixmodule or using some preprocessor cleverness.

   Neil





From PeterAbel at gmx.net  Thu Apr 22 12:14:04 2004
From: PeterAbel at gmx.net (Peter Abel)
Date: 22 Apr 2004 09:14:04 -0700
Subject: This is very simple question
References: <b0457a31.0404210754.2a34b6be@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.840.1082563771.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<108dbd1aftmkc48@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <21064255.0404220814.102f42a4@posting.google.com>

claird at lairds.com (Cameron Laird) wrote in message news:<108dbd1aftmkc48 at corp.supernews.com>...
> In article <mailman.840.1082563771.20120.python-list at python.org>,
> Brian Quinlan  <brian at sweetapp.com> wrote:
> >
> >> I would want to obtain a list of factors (multiples of 2) given a
> >> prime number in python.
> >> 
> >> For example 13=[8,4,1], 5=[4,1], 7=[4,2,1], 15=[8,4,2,1]
> >> 
> >> I would appreciate a fuction which would do this.
> >
> >If we told you it wouldn't be fair to the other students in your class :-)
> 			.
> 			.
> 			.
> I'm surprised only one of the responses I've seen so far has 
> objected to what sure seems like an inappropriate response to
> classwork.  I'm astonished that no one is reading this question
> as I do.  I leave as an exercise for readers this generalization
> of what *I* think is going on:
> 
>   def positional_addends(positive_integer, base = 2):
>       result = []
>       current = 1
>       while positive_integer:
>   	remainder = positive_integer % (base * current)
>           if remainder:
>               result.append(remainder)
>               positive_integer -= remainder
>           current *= base
>       result.reverse()
>       return result
>   
>   print positional_addends(13)
>   print positional_addends(5)
>   print positional_addends(7)
>   print positional_addends(15)
>   print positional_addends(78904, 10)
> 
> The real exercise is to convert this to a readable one-liner,
> at least for the binary case.

I'm not quite sure, if I understood, what you mean.
One-liners ... OK.
Readable ??? Mmmhm ??
i2b=lambda num,s=[],i=1:num and i2b(num>>1,(num &1) and [(num &1)*i]+s
or s,i<<1) or s

>>> i2b(13)
[8, 4, 1]
>>> i2b(15)
[8, 4, 2, 1]

Let's test it in general:
>>> sum=lambda l:reduce(lambda x,y:x+y,l,0)
>>> sum([8, 4, 2, 1])
15
>>> for i in range(1,100000):
... 	if sum(i2b(i))!=i:
... 		print 'i=%d: sum(i2b(i))=%d' % (i,sum(i2b(i)))
... 		break
... else:
... 	print 'OK'
... 	
OK
>>>

Regards
Peter


From opengeometry at yahoo.ca  Fri Apr 23 21:24:33 2004
From: opengeometry at yahoo.ca (William Park)
Date: 24 Apr 2004 01:24:33 GMT
Subject: Regexp optimization question
References: <slrnc8gal3.9da.mlh@furu.idi.ntnu.no>
	<c69b42$9f6eq$1@ID-99293.news.uni-berlin.de>
	<slrnc8iejt.7j7.mlh@furu.idi.ntnu.no>
	<c6brgc$a70l0$1@ID-99293.news.uni-berlin.de>
	<slrnc8j7p6.s9i.mlh@furu.idi.ntnu.no>
Message-ID: <c6cfkg$ahknr$1@ID-99293.news.uni-berlin.de>

Magnus Lie Hetland <mlh at furu.idi.ntnu.no> wrote:
> In article <c6brgc$a70l0$1 at ID-99293.news.uni-berlin.de>, William Park wrote:
> [snip]
> >
> >Since you want both the matched strings and their locations in file, you
> >pretty much have to this manually, one by one.
> 
> Well -- that's more or less what I'm doing. (Or -- I can get the match
> objects all at once, of course, using finditer.)
> 
> I guess I'll have to look elsewhere for performance improvements. Hm.

You can write up something in C, as standalone or as patch to Bash
shell.  Essentially, 
    - locate start of string match
    - print location (and the string)
    - move pointer past the end of string.
    - repeat.

Closest you can do using standary tools is strings and byte-offset of
the lines the strings occurs.

-- 
William Park, Open Geometry Consulting, <opengeometry at yahoo.ca>
Linux solution/training/migration, Thin-client


From RobMEmmons at cs.com  Sun Apr 18 06:38:32 2004
From: RobMEmmons at cs.com (Robert M. Emmons)
Date: Sun, 18 Apr 2004 05:38:32 -0500
Subject: help with str()
In-Reply-To: <See_my-763698.04154818042004@news.verizon.net>
References: <See_my-763698.04154818042004@news.verizon.net>
Message-ID: <40825AA8.8050404@cs.com>


> 
> No dice. In every case, I get the following error:
> 
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "headhunter.py", line 317, in ?
>     response, poster = n.xhdr("from", 
> first_available_message+"-"+str(last_message))
> TypeError: 'str' object is not callable
> 
> I have tried everything I could think of and there is only one 
> possibility still left that I can think of. My theory is this: by using 
> the int() function, I am typing the numbers in the last_message 
> assignment to type integer, and str() is expecting type float, or 
> something.

str() will work on ints.  str() will even work on classes if you have 
the right special method handler defined.

You might want to verify that displaying the value of "str" gives you 
something like <built-in fucntion str>.  You can do this by using "print 
str".  Might be fun to try also "print str(str)" and print "repr(str)". 
  You should get the same thing for these others.

Why I say that is that it is possible to assign something in your code 
to str then it's no-longer associated with the built-in function you 
want, then it might not be callable.  You could have done this in your 
function, or in the global scope for example.

Rob

Rob


From has.temp2 at virgin.net  Fri Apr 16 18:06:44 2004
From: has.temp2 at virgin.net (has)
Date: 16 Apr 2004 15:06:44 -0700
Subject: (For gurus) Embed functions in webpages like in PHP?
References: <5eq4l1-9vm.ln1@pilz.hasos.com>
Message-ID: <69cbbef2.0404161406.23a2d3b5@posting.google.com>

Robert Ferber <rob at nospam.net> wrote in message news:<5eq4l1-9vm.ln1 at pilz.hasos.com>...

> As far as I've seen, there is no way to embed Python-code in a webpage with
> "<? ?>" or anything equivalent and I don't see any other way to solve this
> problem.

If you're open to alternatives, there's also several simplified-DOM
templating engines:

http://www.entrian.com/PyMeld/

http://www.divmod.org/Home/Projects/Nevow/

http://freespace.virgin.net/hamish.sanderson/htmltemplate.html

I think Nevow's maybe still a work in progress, but the other two have
been around awhile. (I recommend HTMLTemplate myself, though may be
biased as it's one of mine.:)

These systems are much simpler and more flexible than traditional
'code-in-markup' systems, compiling an HTML template into a simple
object model that can be manipulated directly from Python code. Bit
different to what you're used to, but you really should give 'em a
look. Simple APIs, low cruft/bloat, and total separation between
presentation logic (in Python) and HTML markup. Can be used on their
own, or in conjunction with a web framework like Quixote.

Not sure of the others, but HTMLTemplate certainly allows you template
both full pages and HTML chunks so you can easily compose a page from
multiple parts, so implementing selective caching and reuse of
semi-static page areas should be straightforward.


From peter at engcorp.com  Thu Apr 15 07:58:42 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2004 07:58:42 -0400
Subject: Threading question
In-Reply-To: <c5lp7u$2fd$1@newsserv.zdv.uni-tuebingen.de>
References: <c5ljtf$qlt$1@newsserv.zdv.uni-tuebingen.de>
	<xfydnUiny4W3_ePd4p2dnA@powergate.ca>
	<c5lp7u$2fd$1@newsserv.zdv.uni-tuebingen.de>
Message-ID: <FbudnXWEy9ds5ePdRVn-hA@powergate.ca>

Torsten Marek wrote:

> Peter Hansen schrieb:
>> The other threads are running in, well, other threads, so you
>> won't see any effect on the above thread when they end.  Therefore
>> you can't get much mileage out of a finally clause.  A .join()
>> is definitely the way to go here.

> I found another way to go for now, which works fine for me.
> Since the threading module sets sys.exitfunc, I just do:
> 
> def my_exitfunc():
>     global thread_wait
>     thread_wait()
>     # own stuff follows here...
> 
> thread_wait = sys.exitfunc
> sys.exitfunc = my_exitfunc
> 
> That's maybe not very clean, but it's just a minor script I wrote, so I 
> don't want to waste to much time on it;-)

Good solution.  You're actually taking advantage of the fact that
the main thread does a join() on all non-daemon threads automatically
as it exits.  The source in threading.py for the "main thread"
can make illuminating reading...

-Peter


From therve at neocles.com  Wed Apr 28 05:30:08 2004
From: therve at neocles.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Thomas_Herv=E9?=)
Date: Wed, 28 Apr 2004 11:30:08 +0200
Subject: Problem with socket
Message-ID: <408f7917$0$27016$626a14ce@news.free.fr>

My problem is not really python specific but as I do my implementation 
in python I hope someone here can help me.

I have two programs that talk through a socket. Here is the code :

<server>
sock = socket.socket(socket.AF_INET, socket.SOCK_STREAM)
sock.setsockopt(socket.SOL_SOCKET, socket.SO_REUSEADDR, 1)

sock.settimeout(5.0)

sock.bind(("", port)
# We only handle one connection
sock.listen(1)

while 1:
     newsock, address = sock.accept()
     handle(newsock, address)

def handle(sock, address) :
     print "Connection from", address
     dataReceived = newsock.recv(1024)
     while 1:
         try:
             newsock.send(data)
         except socket.timeout, err:
             print "Connection timeout %s" % err
             break
         except socket.error, err:
             print "Connection broken %s" % err
             break

</server>

<client>
sock = socket.socket(socket.AF_INET, socket.SOCK_STREAM)
sock.settimeout(5.0)
sock.connect((host, port))
sock.send("Gimme a piece of information, please\r\n")

while 1:
     r, w, e = select.select([s], [], [], 1.0)
     if r != []:
	handle_connection(s)


def handle_connection(sock):
     try:
         response_data = sock.recv(1024)
     except socket.timeout:
         print "Socket timeout"
         return
     manage(response_data)

</client>

Ok I hope it's clear. My problem is that "select" only tests if there's 
data on the socket, and not the state of the socket. I want to be able 
to know if socket is "alive" or something like that. But I don't want 
to make "send" in the client (stay passive). Then, if I know that my 
socket is closed or my link down, I can try to reconnect periodically.

I would rewrite the while in the client like that :
<client>
while 1:
     if not test_connect(s) :
	reconnect(s)
     # else continue normally
     r, w, e = select.select([s], [], [], 1.0)
     if r != []:
	handle_connection(s)
</client

My env: python2.3, linux/win32.

Thanks in advance,

-- 
Thomas Herve <sorry for my english>


From jcarlson at uci.edu  Sun Apr 18 13:56:20 2004
From: jcarlson at uci.edu (Josiah Carlson)
Date: Sun, 18 Apr 2004 10:56:20 -0700
Subject: Does Python compete with Java?
In-Reply-To: <mailman.585.1081876373.20120.python-list@python.org>
References: <8b336527.0404051337.51bb4a1b@posting.google.com>	<c4taac$2lg0bc$1@ID-169208.news.uni-berlin.de>	<e838aa6e.0404071426.7192e8e4@posting.google.com>	<slrnc79idf.hij.ramen@lackingtalent.com>	<e838aa6e.0404130748.1d8e1ddf@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.585.1081876373.20120.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <c5ufmp$6um$1@news.service.uci.edu>

> instance. Also, can "and", "or", "not" etc. be overloaded?

No one has said it yet, so here's my advice, check the operator module 
for names you should call your 'overloaded' operators, the ones with 
__name__ are ones that can be 'overloaded'.
http://www.python.org/doc/current/lib/module-operator.html

  - Josiah


From john.abel at pa.press.net  Fri Apr  2 04:10:21 2004
From: john.abel at pa.press.net (John Abel)
Date: Fri, 02 Apr 2004 10:10:21 +0100
Subject: HTML writer
In-Reply-To: <yL9bc.45202$wH3.33614@newssvr25.news.prodigy.com>
References: <yL9bc.45202$wH3.33614@newssvr25.news.prodigy.com>
Message-ID: <406D2DFD.8040509@pa.press.net>

You could always try HTMLgen, though I don't know how much CSS it supports.

HTH

J

Moosebumps wrote:

>Is there a standard solution for writing HTML web pages with Python?  I
>don't know that much about web programming, but basically I want to generate
>some internal reports on a web page.
>
>It doesn't need to be fancy, just basic tables and linking, maybe indexing
>and navigation, but I want it to all look nice and I want to be able to
>change the formatting easily without combing through source code (hence my
>next question about CSS).
>
>I know there newer things like CSS and XHTML -- are these more or less
>effort to generate?  i.e. are they more complicated, or do they have more
>uniform syntax?  What do they necessarily buy you?
>
>I searched the python website and I have seen HTML parsers, but no examples
>of generators.  I searched for "Python HTML" and "Python CSS" and found some
>stuff -- but it doesn't seem like there is a "standard" solution that is
>EASY for non-expert web programmers to use.  I am an experienced
>programming, but I don't know that much about all the alphabet soup that is
>web programming.
>
>thanks,
>MB
>
>
>  
>



From peter at engcorp.com  Fri Apr 16 20:33:39 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2004 20:33:39 -0400
Subject: CamelCase versus wide_names (Prothon)
In-Reply-To: <mailman.714.1082153054.20120.python-list@python.org>
References: <UHxfc.9323$dZ1.3740@fed1read04>	<407ec022$0$54153$1b2cd167@news.wanadoo.nl>	<roy-C4FD90.13444715042004@reader2.panix.com>	<b9Afc.9345$dZ1.7703@fed1read04>
	<mailman.714.1082153054.20120.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <69KdndtPUZT-5h3dRVn-uw@powergate.ca>

Jack Diederich wrote:
> I'm a wide_case_fanboy, having done mixedCase and wide_names over the last
> fifteen years.  It all comes down to personal preference, of course.  IMO
> mixedCase people tend to be younger, and younger people tend to be more
> zealous on newsgroups.

Define "younger".


From martin at v.loewis.de  Sun Apr  4 13:47:16 2004
From: martin at v.loewis.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?=22Martin_v=2E_L=F6wis=22?=)
Date: Sun, 04 Apr 2004 19:47:16 +0200
Subject: user authentication via /etc/passwd|/etc/shadow
In-Reply-To: <c4ork9$2kssti$1@ID-165840.news.uni-berlin.de>
References: <c4ork9$2kssti$1@ID-165840.news.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <c4phmr$k6i$04$1@news.t-online.com>

Marco Herrn wrote:
> I want to write a program where I authenticate users via the standard
> unix system accounts. I didn't find a module providing this
> functionality. Is there such a module available? If not, how can I
> achieve this?

You need a combination of the pwd and crypt modules. Lookup the name
of the user using the pwd module, and fetch the encrypted password.
Then use crypt.crypt for encryption; use the first two letters of
the encrypted password as the salt.

Be aware that some installations use MD5 passwords, which can be
recognized by starting with $1$ (or some such).

Regards,
Martin



From root at mbtricot.it  Sun Apr 25 10:41:43 2004
From: root at mbtricot.it (root at mbtricot.it)
Date: Sun, 25 Apr 2004 16:41:43 +0200
Subject: Virus Alert
Message-ID: <200404251441.i3PEfhU20330@linuxbox.mbtricot.it>

The mail message (file: message.scr) you sent to mbtfederico contains a virus. (InterScan on linuxbox.mbtricot.it)



From heikowu at ceosg.de  Thu Apr 22 03:23:27 2004
From: heikowu at ceosg.de (Heiko Wundram)
Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2004 09:23:27 +0200
Subject: String/source code analysis tools
In-Reply-To: <j0Khc.25133$Q%5.6444@newssvr27.news.prodigy.com>
References: <j0Khc.25133$Q%5.6444@newssvr27.news.prodigy.com>
Message-ID: <200404220923.27647.heikowu@ceosg.de>

Am Donnerstag 22 April 2004 08:56 schrieb Moosebumps:
> It is actually sort of like a diff algorithm maybe, but it wouldn't go line
> by line.  How would I do a diff, token by token?  I don't know anything
> about what algorithms diffs use.

What about difflib? (part of the standard library) You'd have to write your 
own tokenization function, but that shouldn't be hard...

Heiko.



From mwilson at the-wire.com  Fri Apr 23 16:15:42 2004
From: mwilson at the-wire.com (Mel Wilson)
Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2004 16:15:42 -0400
Subject: Why we will use obj$func() often
References: <d2Uhc.22272$dZ1.1600@fed1read04> <84Uhc.22278$dZ1.5087@fed1read04>
	<mailman.927.1082665370.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<8AWhc.23114$dZ1.11070@fed1read04> <40883BFE.B381518A@alcyone.com>
	<27_hc.23801$dZ1.2716@fed1read04> <40887145.789A2FE8@alcyone.com>
	<7cki80hj976bia36lhf9er97v073o1pqvm@4ax.com>
	<w8dic.28710$dZ1.11206@fed1read04>
Message-ID: <ulXiAls/KH1K089yn@the-wire.com>

In article <w8dic.28710$dZ1.11206 at fed1read04>,
"Mark Hahn" <mark at prothon.org> wrote:
>The benefits of closures are well known.  I'll give you the canonical
>example, but I'm sure textbooks can give you many more (by the way, Python
>cannot do this):
>
># tested example
>def getFunc():
>    counter = 0
>    def count():
>            &counter += 1
>            print &counter
>    return count
>
>c = getFunc()
>c()     # prints 1
>c()     # prints 2
>c()     # prints 3


It can, if you spell '&' differently:

def getfunc():
    def count (n=[0]):
        n[0] += 1
        print n[0]
    return count

c = getfunc()
c()
c()
c()


        Regards.    Mel.


From __peter__ at web.de  Sat Apr  3 04:48:16 2004
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Sat, 03 Apr 2004 11:48:16 +0200
Subject: String concatenation
References: <wS8bc.4382$px6.64058@news2.e.nsc.no>
	<7xisgi24fm.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<Rz9bc.4514$zf6.60676@news4.e.nsc.no>
	<406D27A7.6550A00B@alcyone.com>
	<ZW9bc.4389$px6.64242@news2.e.nsc.no>
	<406D2CD5.878EBD4E@alcyone.com>
	<d9abc.4519$zf6.60744@news4.e.nsc.no>
	<406D2FA2.6E5118CC@alcyone.com>
	<YZhbc.4488$px6.65517@news2.e.nsc.no>
	<i7mbc.4659$zf6.61729@news4.e.nsc.no>
	<c4ls3u$ipm$06$1@news.t-online.com>
	<Rsvbc.4578$px6.66707@news2.e.nsc.no>
Message-ID: <c4m190$7r0$00$1@news.t-online.com>

Leif B. Kristensen wrote:

> It was of course full of \xa0's. But now that I know about the bug, a
> search/replace takes only seconds.

I copied it back from the newsgroup with no problems, using only KNode and
Kate. This is really strange.

Peter



From suporte at grad.icmc.usp.br  Fri Apr 23 08:19:18 2004
From: suporte at grad.icmc.usp.br (suporte at grad.icmc.usp.br)
Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2004 09:19:18 -0300 (EST)
Subject: [blockmail] E-mail bloqueado - blocked e-mail
Message-ID: <20040423121918.87B23FF544@mail.grad.icmc.usp.br>

O e-mail abaixo indicado foi bloqueado por este servidor, pois cont?m 
um anexo execut?vel. Arquivos execut?veis s?o potencialmente perigosos
por constituir meio de propaga??o de v?rus e worms de e-mail.

The following e-mail was blocked by this server because it contains an
executable attachment. Executable files are potentially dangerous, as 
they are used for e-mail virus and worms propagation.

Mail headers:
  Date       : Fri, 23 Apr 2004 09:27:30 -0300
  Subject    : Mail Delivery failure (gabicr at grad.icmc.usp.br)
  From       : python-list at python.org
  Return-Path: <python-list at python.org>
  Received   : from grad.icmc.usp.br (200-158-32-206.dsl.telesp.net.br [200.158.32.206])
  To (system): gabicr
  To (header): gabicr at grad.icmc.usp.br
  Cc         : 
  Bcc        : 

  Executables: data12551.pif

Mensagem autom?tica - automatic message

Blockmail: http://www.icmc.usp.br/~sti/Tutoriais/MainTutoriais.html




From ZZZ-ialbert-ZZZ at mailblocks-ZZZ.com-ZZZ  Mon Apr 19 13:33:48 2004
From: ZZZ-ialbert-ZZZ at mailblocks-ZZZ.com-ZZZ (Istvan Albert)
Date: Mon, 19 Apr 2004 13:33:48 -0400
Subject: Threats to the: Daily Python URL!
In-Reply-To: <mailman.767.1082387435.20120.python-list@python.org>
References: <2ae25c6b.0404182250.4c5bc870@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.767.1082387435.20120.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <K8ydnZqp7sLmkBndRVn-ug@giganews.com>

Fredrik Lundh wrote:


> the daily URL won't go away.  we'll continue to provide fresh links to
> potentially interesting stuff for as long as we possibly can (if you want
> old links, use google or gigablast).

Great! I'm a big fan of the Daily Python URL.

But I wish there was an archive.

Many times  I remembered something that I read there
but could not find it again. Regardless of that, thanks
for the excellent work

Istvan.



From klappnase at web.de  Thu Apr 22 14:35:37 2004
From: klappnase at web.de (klappnase)
Date: 22 Apr 2004 11:35:37 -0700
Subject: tkinter widget collection project
References: <mailman.850.1082566436.20120.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <a7a67196.0404221035.1d9e8165@posting.google.com>

rick.lawson at rbc.com wrote in message news:<mailman.850.1082566436.20120.python-list at python.org>...
> I, like a lot of developers, have collected a homegrown set of widgets for
> Tkinter.
> 
> Any thoughts on a central repository for Tkinter widgets or widget
> extensions? Stuff that's not in Tkinter or standard extensions like Pmw.
> 
> It would be nice if you could go to sourceforge and download a package
> instead of hunting the Vaults, the Activestate cookbook, googling, etc.
> 
> If there's enough interest I'd be willing to set the project up on
> sourceforge and provide some (limited) manpower towards packaging submitted
> widgets.
> 

Great idea!

Maybe it might be even nicer if it was not necessary to download the
whole package; I was thinking of a page where you could directly copy
and paste the code of a widget into your application.
I'm not sure about that, but maybe the Tkinter wiki Cameron Laird
mentioned might be a good place for that, it might make it easier for
other people to extend existing widgets (or maybe fix bugs in more
complex ones).


> Thanks,
> Rick Lawson 
> 

Thanks to you!

Michael


From tjreedy at udel.edu  Fri Apr  2 12:32:14 2004
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Fri, 2 Apr 2004 12:32:14 -0500
Subject: Python conference slogan
References: <mailman.189.1080759511.20120.python-list@python.org><kmjsj1-89u.ln1@snout.lairds.org>
	<c4glmq$j1i$1@swifty.westend.com><30260531.0404010833.1b834032@posting.google.com><mailman.242.1080839651.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<du7ptara46v.fsf@lehtori.cc.tut.fi>
Message-ID: <c4k82v$jgk$1@sea.gmane.org>


"Ville Vainio" <ville at spammers.com> wrote in message
news:du7ptara46v.fsf at lehtori.cc.tut.fi...
> >>>>> "Shane" == Shane Hathaway <shane at zope.com> writes:
>
>     >>> I surrender immediately and have to admit that I don't get it
(One
>     >>> Nation Under Under Python). Google was no help. I couldn't find
the
>
>     Shane> Ok, it's definitely not good.  It's a cross between the
>     Shane> U.S. Pledge of Allegience and Python's use of
>     Shane> double-underscores.  It was *not* intended to suggest that
>     Shane> Python replaces deity. ;-)
>
> Actually, it seems to bring up mostly fascistic connotations, esp. if
> you are not American. Throw in the fact that we like to refer to Guido
> as BDFL, and you are conveying a very unfortunate image ;-).

I originally read this as "One Nation Under Python".  As an American
somewhat amused by the current court case and concurrent fuss, I thought
this a bit funny (but not as a serious proposal).  The double under version
doesn't do anything for me, but that is perhaps because I do not mentally
sound out __.

I'll bypass discussion of the socialist/fascist aspects.

Terry J. Reedy






From whisper at oz.net  Fri Apr 16 16:16:22 2004
From: whisper at oz.net (David LeBlanc)
Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2004 13:16:22 -0700
Subject: Python CPU? (Re: Python OS)
In-Reply-To: <c5nsct$3o9i6$1@ID-169208.news.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <LAEHLEAOBBLKAALGAPAFEEBMEPAA.whisper@oz.net>


> -----Original Message-----
> From: python-list-bounces+whisper=oz.net at python.org
> [mailto:python-list-bounces+whisper=oz.net at python.org]On Behalf Of Greg
> Ewing
> Sent: Thursday, April 15, 2004 22:54
> To: python-list at python.org
> Subject: Python CPU? (Re: Python OS)
>
>
> Peter Maas wrote:
> > The first step would probably be to define a Python OS. Surely no
> > CPU speaks Python :)
>
> Currently, no, but... *could* there be one?
>
> In one of my wilder daydreaming moments recently, I got
> to wondering what a machine designed from the ground up
> to run Python code might be like. I got a vision of a
> Python interpreter implemented in microcode, with a few
> extra bytecodes for low-level hardware access, with an
> OS written in Python running on top of it.
>
> Would it run Python code any faster than an interpreter
> running on an off-the-shelf CPU? Possibly not, but it's
> not clear that it couldn't, either. In any case, it
> would be a fun thing to design, and maybe even to build,
> perhaps using an FPGA.
>
> Anyone want to help?
>
> --
> Greg Ewing, Computer Science Dept,
> University of Canterbury,
> Christchurch, New Zealand
> http://www.cosc.canterbury.ac.nz/~greg

There's a project on sourceforge to develop a Lua microprocessor. Don't know
how active it is, but it could suggest some ideas.

David LeBlanc
Seattle, WA USA




From rzantow at ntelos.net  Sat Apr  3 08:52:05 2004
From: rzantow at ntelos.net (rzed)
Date: Sat, 03 Apr 2004 13:52:05 GMT
Subject: Indent testers needed (Prothon)
References: <Unqbc.131025$cx5.57643@fed1read04>
	<b5rbc.132699$cx5.63133@fed1read04>
	<Xns94C0217D6BF1rzed@63.223.5.95>
	<2Msbc.136673$cx5.2385@fed1read04>
Message-ID: <Xns94C05A8C5AD89rzed@63.223.5.95>

"Mark Hahn" <mark at prothon.org> wrote in
news:2Msbc.136673$cx5.2385 at fed1read04: 

> "rzed" <rzantow at ntelos.net> wrote
> 
>> /* loop 2 */
>> ix = 2
>> for
>>   item
>>     in
>>       blist
>>         :
>>           alist[ix] =
>>                alist[
>>           ix
>>           ]
> 
> Do you think this is a good thing or a bad thing?  You could do
> the same thing or worse in C or Java.
> 
> 

My first reaction was negative, but in fact I don't think it makes 
as much difference as it appears to. I'm not going to code like 
that, and I don't know anyone who will. But the absurdist approach 
to coding won't necessarily be used just because is possible. The 
continuation lines in general are more convenient than Python's 
stricter rule, though I liked the first version of Prothon's rule 
(a double indent implies continuation) as well. The open-bracket 
rule in particular seems intuitive. I think either Prothon rule is 
handier than \
continuations.

But I agree with Josiah, in that cut and paste will become 
problematic if the mixture is not allowed. I tried to make the 
point to Michael earlier (though apparently in a muddled way). I 
don't show visible tab marks in my editors, and I don't want to 
have to, but if I don't, I haven't any good way to know whether a 
piece of code contains tabs or spaces. Until I run it, at least. 

-- 
rzed



From project5 at redrival.net  Fri Apr  9 09:10:47 2004
From: project5 at redrival.net (Andrei)
Date: Fri, 9 Apr 2004 15:10:47 +0200
Subject: improve a Python error message
References: <3064b51d.0404081113.58aa1838@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <1vctq85ss4ztd.qh6l6b34xqgu$.dlg@40tude.net>

beliavsky at aol.com wrote on 8 Apr 2004 12:13:07 -0700:

> x = (1,2
> print x
> 
> gives an error message 
> 
>   File "err.py", line 2
>     print x
>         ^
> SyntaxError: invalid syntax
> 
> The real error is on line 1, but I guess the error is attributed to
> line 2 because the code would be legal if the 2nd line were (for
> example) a closing parenthesis. I wonder if the error message Python
> produces could be improved. It is technically correct but could
> confuse a beginner. Perhaps the message could be
> 
> SyntaxError: invalid syntax (missing closing parenthesis on previous
> line?)

I think that generally speaking you're right and this type of error does
tend to come from forgetting to close parens. But Python doesn't know if
you forgot to close the paren or forgot a comma inside a tuple. E.g. it's
legal to not close a tuple on the same line where you begin it:

  >>> x = (1, 2
  ... ,3
  ... )
  >>> x
  (1, 2, 3)

But:

  >>> x = (1,2
  ... 3)
    File "<input>", line 2
      3)
      ^
  SyntaxError: invalid syntax

In this case I didn't forget the parenthesis, I forgot the comma.

It's also illegal to put a print inside the tuple, regardless of comma and
parens:

  >>> x = (1, 2, print 3)
    File "<input>", line 1
      x = (1, 2, print 3)
                     ^
  SyntaxError: invalid syntax

Your example is a mix of all three possible errors: you might have
forgotten the paren, you might have forgotten a comma and you might have
accidentally put a print inside a tuple. Python can't really know what you
meant to write there. 
Imagine you have a variable called Print which you wanted to put inside a
tuple, but mistyped it as "print". Python tells you to close your
parentheses on line 1, but the mistake is really in line 2, where you
should have put a comma, uppercased 'print' and closed the parens.

-- 
Yours,

Andrei

=====
Real contact info (decode with rot13):
cebwrpg5 at jnanqbb.ay. Fcnz-serr! Cyrnfr qb abg hfr va choyvp cbfgf. V ernq
gur yvfg, fb gurer'f ab arrq gb PP.


From jbperez808 at yahoo.com  Fri Apr  9 20:09:20 2004
From: jbperez808 at yahoo.com (Jon Perez)
Date: Sat, 10 Apr 2004 08:09:20 +0800
Subject: Indent testers needed (Prothon)
In-Reply-To: <60dfb6f6.0404091317.4875c203@posting.google.com>
References: <Unqbc.131025$cx5.57643@fed1read04>
	<c51rpj$2nk5rd$1@ID-180326.news.uni-berlin.de>
	<tyf3c7ewvlz.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
	<c55era$2p4mnp$1@ID-180326.news.uni-berlin.de>
	<60dfb6f6.0404091317.4875c203@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <c57djc$2ng7qn$1@ID-180326.news.uni-berlin.de>

Carl Banks wrote:

>>Asking people to stop switch away from their favorite editors
> 
> He wasn't doing that, bub.

So what was he doing... bub?


From beliavsky at aol.com  Sun Apr 11 14:25:55 2004
From: beliavsky at aol.com (beliavsky at aol.com)
Date: 11 Apr 2004 11:25:55 -0700
Subject: Compact Python library for math statistics
References: <E1B9LoV-0005OQ-00@fatlady.ukr.net>
	<mailman.267.1080904644.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<3064b51d.0404061038.4d69fd89@posting.google.com>
	<5d83790c.0404090024.5cefb2ea@posting.google.com>
	<3064b51d.0404091308.472dfb78@posting.google.com>
	<c59k27$jbi$1@news.service.uci.edu>
Message-ID: <3064b51d.0404111025.646d4223@posting.google.com>

Josiah Carlson <jcarlson at uci.edu> wrote in message news:<c59k27$jbi$1 at news.service.uci.edu>...
> > Overall, the Python code below is about 100 times slower than the
> > Fortran equivalent. This is a typical ratio I have found for code
> > involving loops.
> > 
> > from math import sqrt
> > n = 10000000 + 1
> > sum_sqrt = 0.0
> > for i in range(1,n):
> >     sum_sqrt = sum_sqrt + (float(i))**0.5
> > print sum_sqrt
> 
> Yeah...you may want to consider doing some optimizations to the above 
> code.  Using 'xrange' instead of 'range' is significantly faster 
> (especially when your machine can't hold 'n' integers in a Python list 
> in memory), as is the removal of the 'float(i)' cast (which is unnecessary).

My original code, the code with range replaced by xrange, and the code
with the further replacement of "float(i)" with "i" take 22.0, 20.5,
and 14.4 seconds. So it looks like removing unnecessary casts can save
substantial time. Thanks.


From __peter__ at web.de  Sat Apr  3 12:50:19 2004
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Sat, 03 Apr 2004 19:50:19 +0200
Subject: Subclassing file and getting around the file.__init__ rigidity
References: <807692de.0404012244.53b476dc@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <c4mtgs$j6t$07$1@news.t-online.com>

Jan Burgy wrote:

> Hi all y'all,
> 
> Consider the class down below. I've implemented it just because I
> needed the pushback method. Now of course the third line in __init__
> doesn't work and I even understand why. My question is: is there any
> way to make it work? Somebody proposed a patch for fileobject.c to
> allow stuff like fp = file(fp1.fileno()) but it looks like it's been
> rejected. I won't so bold as to request a change in Python. Should I
> try to re-write this class in C? Although I know C I'm much to lazy to
> take on the entire python API, not that it doesn't look nice.
> 
> Thanks for your help
> 
> Jan Burgy
> 
> class BufferedFile(file):
> 
>     def __init__(self, name):
>         if type(name) == file:
>             self = name                   # DOESN'T WORK!
>         else:
>             file.__init__(self, name)
>         self.buffer = None
>         
>     def readline(self):
>         if self.buffer:
>             i = self.buffer.find("\n")
>             line, self.buffer = self.buffer[:i], self.buffer[:i+1]
>         else:
>             line = file.readline(self)
>         return line
> 
>     def pushback(self, line):
>         self.buffer = line + self.buffer

Here's a way to force it by using a wrapper instead of a subclass:

class BufferedFile(object):
    def __init__(self, name, *more):
        if isinstance(name, basestring):
            self.fo = file(name, *more)
        else:
            self.fo = name
            assert len(more) == 0
        self.buffer = []

    def readline(self):
        if self.buffer:
            return self.buffer.pop()
        return self.fo.readline()

    def __iter__(self):
        return self

    def next(self):
        result = self.readline()
        if not result:
            raise StopIteration
        return result

    def pushback(self, line):
        self.buffer.append(line)

    def __getattr__(self, name):
        return getattr(self.fo, name)

Unfortunately it grew clumsier than I originaly expected because of the
duplicated interface (next() and readline() for essentially the same
thing). Personally, I would recommend using the subclass approach and drop
the requirement of accepting a file object as an __init__() parameter.
Still the above has the advantage of working with "real files" and StringIO
objects alike (not tested, so don't blame me).


Peter



From llothar at web.de  Thu Apr 15 17:29:16 2004
From: llothar at web.de (Lothar Scholz)
Date: 15 Apr 2004 14:29:16 -0700
Subject: Difficulty Finding Python Developers
References: <65cbc3dd.0404140641.3501fde8@posting.google.com>
	<5d83790c.0404150701.605782a7@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <6ee58e07.0404151329.5ad3b61b@posting.google.com>

python at rcn.com (Raymond Hettinger) wrote in message news:<5d83790c.0404150701.605782a7 at posting.google.com>...
> [Paul Morrow]
> > posted a job on Monster, but we have been talking with various
> > headhunters in our area and they don't have many resumes that show
> > Python experience.  An so now, of course, mgt is wondering whether
> > selecting Python was a mistake.
> 
> With a C++ code, it is critical for your programmers to have years of
> C++ experience.  However, with Python, experienced programmers can get
> up to speed over a weekend.
> 

But thats only true for the pure language. You still need a lot of
idioms and knowledge of the libraries to become really productive with
python. And this can increase the time you need. For example if you
want to use webware you can get something up within 2 weeks, but you
need 2 more weeks to really understand whats going on (at this level
you know what is defined in each module and where it is used).


From Mike at DeleteThis.Geary.com  Wed Apr 28 18:04:23 2004
From: Mike at DeleteThis.Geary.com (Michael Geary)
Date: Wed, 28 Apr 2004 15:04:23 -0700
Subject: Path ... where is my application's home dir?
References: <mailman.76.1083159752.25742.python-list@python.org><408fbc0a$0$17256$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
	<mailman.80.1083163424.25742.python-list@python.org>
	<s2e5m1-gpp.ln1@home.rogerbinns.com>
Message-ID: <1090aj86bk47k02@corp.supernews.com>

Roger Binns wrote:
> from win32com.shell import shell, shellcon
> path=shell.SHGetFolderPath(0, shellcon.CSIDL_PERSONAL, None, 0)

CSIDL_PERSONAL is the user's "My Documents" folder, which is not the right
place for configuration files. It's for documents that the user explicitly
creates and saves.

Configuration files generally belong in a subdirectory under CSIDL_APPDATA.
Large data files that shouldn't be uploaded and downloaded when roaming
profiles are used belong in a subdirectory under CSIDL_LOCAL_APPDATA. On
systems that don't support CSIDL_LOCAL_APPDATA, fall back to CSIDL_APPDATA
instead.

-Mike




From tim.golden at viacom-outdoor.co.uk  Wed Apr 21 04:33:00 2004
From: tim.golden at viacom-outdoor.co.uk (Tim Golden)
Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2004 09:33:00 +0100
Subject: Opening MS Word files via Python
Message-ID: <F1921F85572CB04D9F55B14BDC76B3E4434835@tdi_nt9.internal.viacom-outdoor.co.uk>

>I am curious as to how I should approach this issue.  I would just
>want to parse simple text and maybe perhaps tables in the future. 
>Would I have to save the word file and open it in a text editor?  That
>would kind of....suck...  Has anyone else tackled this issue?

Have a look at antiword: http://www.winfield.demon.nl/

It's not written in Python (afaik) but it writes to stdout.
Example:

<code>
import os

ANTIWORD = "c:/antiword/antiword.exe"
filename = raw_input ("Enter name of word doc: ")
text = os.popen ("%s %s" % (ANTIWORD, filename)).read ()

print text
</code>

TJG


________________________________________________________________________
This e-mail has been scanned for all viruses by Star Internet. The
service is powered by MessageLabs. For more information on a proactive
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http://www.star.net.uk
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From steve at ferg.org  Wed Apr 21 11:42:50 2004
From: steve at ferg.org (Stephen Ferg)
Date: 21 Apr 2004 08:42:50 -0700
Subject: I'm looking for a good overview of Tk concepts.
References: <_23hc.186323$oR5.125527@pd7tw3no>
Message-ID: <b16e4ef7.0404210742.5cbadf64@posting.google.com>

Look at:
http://www.ferg.org/thinking_in_tkinter/index.html

It may be useful, and it has links to other places that may be useful.


From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Fri Apr  2 15:07:28 2004
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 2 Apr 2004 15:07:28 -0500
Subject: Prothon, metaclasses, Zope [Was: A 'Python like' language]
References: <95aa1afa.0403272243.78d60724@posting.google.com>
	<95aa1afa.0404010017.2f1683b8@posting.google.com>
	<m%1bc.100747$cx5.75670@fed1read04>
	<406d55c6$0$206$edfadb0f@dread12.news.tele.dk>
Message-ID: <c4kh60$5ni$1@panix3.panix.com>

In article <406d55c6$0$206$edfadb0f at dread12.news.tele.dk>,
Max M  <maxm at mxm.dk> wrote:
>Mark Hahn wrote:
>> 
>> As far as top-posting, I am trying to improve, it's just hard to change my
>> reply style after using it for 30 years without getting any complaints
>> before. I feel like I'm in a twilight-zone episode.
>
>Actually I am too. There is some interresting dynamics going on here.
>
>Appart from that Brandon guy, I have never experienced such a reaction 
>before in this group. I hope it is just a fluke.

Mark's the first person I recall seeing who was trying to participate in
a serious discussion and also using top-posting.  Also, there are a fair
number of netiquette snobs here, and when Mark actively rejected the
arguments against top-posting, people got annoyed.  It was similar to
the reaction you might expect from the following exchange:

A: <spam>
B: Please don't post spam, it's not appropriate
A: Why not?  Spam has a number of beneficial qualities....

I'm always surprised when I find someone who's been active on the Net for
more than a few years who isn't even aware of how much a hot-button
top-posting is in some communities.
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

"usenet imitates usenet"  --Darkhawk


From sarge at arena.invalid  Thu Apr 29 16:13:40 2004
From: sarge at arena.invalid (Sarge)
Date: Thu, 29 Apr 2004 20:13:40 GMT
Subject: Newbe-books
Message-ID: <Uldkc.29554$Qc.1128956@twister1.libero.it>

Hi,
I'm newbe of python, but not of programming (a lot of Matlab, some 
C, a bit of C++), I want a *good* book on python for self-study.
I'm short of money, I don't want to make any mistakes, so does 
anybody have any suggestions (buy this-don't buy that)?

Thanx,
Sarge


From fredrik at pythonware.com  Fri Apr 16 06:49:33 2004
From: fredrik at pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2004 12:49:33 +0200
Subject: Tkinter: cut'n'paste from DISABLED window?
References: <c4vm3g$b2d$1@news.Stanford.EDU>
	<1076oovf3jd9b28@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <c5odna$74g$1@sea.gmane.org>

Michael Geary wrote:


> I don't know if this will help, but maybe it will provide a hint...
>
> In a native Windows app, the way you do this is to make the edit control
> read-only instead of disabled. For example, if you right-click a file in
> Windows and select Properties, you'll notice that you can select and copy
> text from any of the text fields in the General tab of the property sheet.
>
> The way this is done is by making those text fields Edit controls with the
> ES_READONLY style (and without the WS_DISABLED style).

Tk's Text widget is a custom widget, which doesn't rely on Windows native
widgets.

however, in recent versions, many Tk entry widgets supports both
state="disabled"
and state="readonly", but I don't think this is yet available for the Text
widget.


as for the original poster, the best way to solve this is probably to add
custom
mouse bindings for this widget.  here's a start (needs a bit of tweaking,
but you
get the idea):

    w.tag_config("mysel", background="blue", foreground="white")

    def start(event):
        index = w.index("@%d,%d" % (event.x, event.y))
        w.mark_set("myanchor", index)

    def drag(event):
        index = w.index("@%d,%d" % (event.x, event.y))
        w.tag_remove("mysel", 1.0, END)
        w.tag_add("mysel", "myanchor", index)

    def copy(event):
        text = w.get("mysel.first", "mysel.last")
        if text: add to clipboard

    w.bind("<Button-1>", start)
    w.bind("<B1-Motion>", drag)
    w.bind("<Control-C>", copy)

</F>






From jwsacksteder at ramprecision.com  Thu Apr 22 10:24:05 2004
From: jwsacksteder at ramprecision.com (jwsacksteder at ramprecision.com)
Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2004 10:24:05 -0400
Subject: python web programming / CMS
Message-ID: <71650A6F73F1D411BE8000805F65E3CB3B3A6B@SRV-03>

You should look at Webware for python, possible in conjunction with
SQLObject.

-----Original Message-----
From: flupke [mailto:flupke at nonexistingdomain.com]
Sent: Thursday, April 22, 2004 10:11 AM
To: python-list at python.org
Subject: Re: python web programming / CMS


"Arcane" <arcane at deepfort.com> schreef in bericht
news:mailman.910.1082637637.20120.python-list at python.org...
> news.telenet.be wrote:
>
> >Hi,
> >
> >i'm looking at python to do programming for the new intranet
> >here at the company. I'm looking at plone/zope also.
> >Before, I've used jsp for webprogramming but i'm considering
> >python for this.
> >One thing that isn't clear to me is if it's possible to include python
> >code in a html page like you would do with jsp and then have zope
> >"translate" that to html. With jsp, one could use an apache/tomcat
> >combo to accomplish this.
> >If one can't include python in html, is Zope the only alternative and
> >how does code look like then?
> >
> >Thanks
> >
> >
> >
> >
> There are various ways to implement a "PSP (Python Server Pages)"-type
> setup.
>
> I don't know how well regarded it is amongst other python users - in
> fact, I'd be interested to know, but I use the
> very lightweight Spyce : http://spyce.sourceforge.net.
>
> I use Spyce-flavoured apache, in combination with python cgi stuff to
> great effect on our intranet.
>
> Hope this helps.

(saw name was misconfigured as news.telenet.be)

This seems to be doing what i want. However i have some more
questions :)

1. Am i correct in thinking i would have to add for instance FastCGI to
the Spyce install in order to get it working?

2. In jsp, i often used my own java objects in the code. Can you also do
this with Spyce? For instance, if i would have to get data from a db, i
would
make an object that implements code to do this and then create an instance
of that object in a PSP. Is this doable?

3. What databases can be accessed from Python?

Flupke



-- 
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list



From peter at engcorp.com  Thu Apr  1 09:40:33 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Thu, 01 Apr 2004 09:40:33 -0500
Subject: Python Documentation Blows!
In-Reply-To: <or6sj1-8eh.ln1@wintermute.g2ctech>
References: <40699A31.8000708@yahoo.com>	<20040330161531.GA17112@vulcan.cprogrammer.org>	<4069C839.6020109@mlug.missouri.edu>	<mailman.136.1080674682.20120.python-list@python.org><c4djdd$sir$1@news.service.uci.edu>
	<mailman.158.1080711320.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<406a753b$0$12020$79c14f64@nan-newsreader-02.noos.net>
	<mMSdnZyBVPKoW_fdRVn-tw@powergate.ca>
	<or6sj1-8eh.ln1@wintermute.g2ctech>
Message-ID: <e7ydnQCOXLR9tPHdRVn-tA@powergate.ca>

Jorge Godoy wrote:

> On Qua 31 Mar 2004 10:23, Peter Hansen wrote:
>>francois lepoutre wrote:
>>>As was mentioned in a recent thread python is definitively
>>>the tool for applications with complex code and no or little UI.
>>>For UI-intense apps, win32 C# and delphi are still hard to beat
>>
>>Do you say this because of the design tools, or for some
>>other reason?
> 
> One thing my partner always complain about is the lack of database classes
> and navigators such as the ones available in Delphi. Specially the ones
> that allow you going forward and back in a table with the records without
> having to code that by hand. And no, ODBC isn't a good solution according
> to him due to several variations of ODBC libraries and changes between
> versions. 
> 
> I don't know Delphi... 

I do know Delphi, well, and your partner is right.  On the other hand,
many of us build GUIs without the least bit of database attached, and
would not require such things.  That's why I asked francois for his
input.  For me, wxPython GUIs are plenty fast even with what I would
call "complex code", and I know Delphi wouldn't be significantly better
for my kinds of GUI.

-Peter


From hungjunglu at yahoo.com  Sun Apr 18 13:56:59 2004
From: hungjunglu at yahoo.com (Hung Jung Lu)
Date: 18 Apr 2004 10:56:59 -0700
Subject: module not callable - why not?
References: <c56jph$rrk$05$1@news.t-online.com>
	<107dras2heahcb6@news.supernews.com>
	<mailman.491.1081538569.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<8ef9bea6.0404122025.36efc84e@posting.google.com>
	<c5tef0$5hf$1@news.service.uci.edu>
	<7xsmf1fxd9.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <8ef9bea6.0404180956.cd1a152@posting.google.com>

One more, I promise I'll stop.

(i) For getting attributes by string names, for attributes of
instances you do getattr(self, 'name'), for module attributes you do
globals()['name']. I mention this because every once a month or so a
newbie would ask how to get module level attributes by name.

I'm not saying Python made the mistake alone: everyone else in
C++/Java, etc. made the same mistakes and a lot more. I'm saying that
in hindsight, prototype-based OOP would have saved a lot of troubles.
Why split things into 3 or 4 concepts (instance, class, module,
metaclass, etc.), when you could just have one (object)??? When you
have 3 or 4 different concepts, you are bound to have to duplicate
your effort. That's why people asked for staticmethod/classmethod in
Python (and they were done.) That's why metaclass came to be. That's
why people ask to make modules callable, that's why people ask about
properties for modules. It's tiring and complicated to implement
duplicated features: too much work, too many syntax conflicts. But if
one has started with prototype-based OOP, it only needs to be done
once, instead of 2 or 3 times.

Why do I think it's a good idea to compile a list of these "symptoms"?
Because many people are unfamiliar with prototype-based OOP, and they
think there is nothing (or not much) wrong with class-based OOP like
Python. When they see a list like what I am showing, they will
hopefully understand they have been coping with these
redundancies/inconsistencies for a long long time. Problems that
needed not to be there, in the first place. It's just a way to help
people think "out of the box." :)

regards,

Hung Jung


From ptmcg at austin.rr._bogus_.com  Fri Apr 23 23:30:24 2004
From: ptmcg at austin.rr._bogus_.com (Paul McGuire)
Date: Sat, 24 Apr 2004 03:30:24 GMT
Subject: Regexp optimization question
References: <slrnc8gal3.9da.mlh@furu.idi.ntnu.no>
	<c6a8ku$jga$1@newsreader2.netcologne.de>
	<slrnc8ieul.7j7.mlh@furu.idi.ntnu.no>
Message-ID: <kblic.15952$hR1.8421@fe2.texas.rr.com>

> One of the reasons I've avoided existing lexers is that I don't do
> standard tokenization -- I don't partition all of the text into regexp
> tokens. I allow the lexer to skip over text -- somewhat like how
> whitespace is normally handled, except that this can be *any* text --
> and to return the next token that is of any use to the current parsing
> rule.

pyparsing supports this kind of text skipping, using scanString() instead of
parseString().  scanString() is actually a generator, yielding for each
match a tuple consisting of:
- matched tokens (returned as a ParseResults object - sort of super-list,
supporting simple list semantics, but some tokens can be named and accessed
as in a dictionary or as attributes)
- start location in source string
- end location in source string

Download pyparsing at http://pyparsing.sourceforge.net .

-- Paul




From rick.ratzel at magma-da.com  Wed Apr 21 10:10:03 2004
From: rick.ratzel at magma-da.com (Rick L. Ratzel)
Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2004 14:10:03 GMT
Subject: Py_ParseTuple  Problem
References: <4039221c.0404202256.3f21d817@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <40867D57.3050705@magma-da.com>

I'm assuming you mean PyArg_Parse and PyArg_ParseTuple?  I couldn't find 
any docs on Py_Parse or Py_ParseTuple...

Anyway, maybe something like this might work for you (portions taken 
from example in http://elmer.sourceforge.net/PyCon04/elmer_pycon04.html):

...
PyObject* evalModule;
PyObject* evalDict;
PyObject* evalVal;
PyObject* tupleItem;
unsigned char* my_c_array;
int i;
int tupleSize;

PyRun_SimpleString( "result = pyFuncWhichReadsDevice()" )

evalModule = PyImport_AddModule( (char*)"__main__" );
evalDict = PyModule_GetDict( evalModule );
evalVal = PyDict_GetItemString( evalDict, "result" );

if( evalVal == NULL ) {
    PyErr_Print();
    exit( 1 );

} else {
    if( !PyTuple_Check( evalVal ) ) {
       printf( "Error: pyFuncWhichReadsDevice() did not return a tuple" );
       exit( 1 );
    }

    my_c_array = (unsigned char*) malloc( sizeof( unsigned char ) * 
PyTuple_Size( evalVal ) );

    tupleSize = PyTuple_Size( evalVal );

    for( i=0; i < tupleSize; i++ ) {
       tupleItem = PyTuple_GetItem( evalVal, i );

       if( !PyInt_Check( tupleItem ) ) {
          printf( "Error: pyFuncWhichReadsDevice() returned tuple with 
non-int value" );
          exit( 1 );
       }
       my_c_array[i] = (unsigned char) PyInt_AsLong( tupleItem );
    }
}
...

    I have no idea if this will work for you since I haven't even tried 
to compile it...consider it pseudo-code.

-Rick.

youngdubliner at hotmail.com wrote:
> Hi All , 
> 
> Bit of a problem with Py_Parse or Py_ParseTuple ? 
> 
> I have a python script that reads a sector of flash in an embedded device. 
> it returns the value of each byte within the sector as a tuple. 
> 
> i.e. [255,255,255,255,255,255,255, .......etc etc for the whole sector ! 
> 
> We are using this script to read whats currently in any sector. 
> No problems there.  
> 
> Now I need to call our script from C. 
> 
> I want to copy each of the bytes within the sector into an C unsigned char *array
> 
> Is there any way to do this using Py_ParseTuple or Py_Parse ???
> 
> something like this for instance ??? ...... 
> 
> Py_ParseTuple[pres,"??",&my_c_array]
> 
> so now my_c_array[0] = 255 ,my_c_array[1] = 255 ,my_c_array[2] = 255 , etc etc 
> 
> 
> Thanks for the help !



From eppstein at ics.uci.edu  Sun Apr 11 22:35:20 2004
From: eppstein at ics.uci.edu (David Eppstein)
Date: Sun, 11 Apr 2004 19:35:20 -0700
Subject: print u"\u0432": why is this so hard? UnciodeEncodeError
References: <cpa4qrvb529.fsf@cabernet.nelson.monkey.org>
	<c52lu9$j8c$03$1@news.t-online.com>
	<eppstein-55126D.00202008042004@news.service.uci.edu>
	<c546v4$bi5$02$1@news.t-online.com>
	<m38yh3hhxv.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk>
	<c5cgq3$tps$00$1@news.t-online.com>
	<eppstein-2EEC95.17502411042004@news.service.uci.edu>
Message-ID: <eppstein-73BC2C.19352011042004@news.service.uci.edu>

In article <eppstein-2EEC95.17502411042004 at news.service.uci.edu>,
 David Eppstein <eppstein at ics.uci.edu> wrote:

> > I wonder how much would break if Python would assume the terminal
> > encoding is UTF-8 on Darwin. Do people use different terminal
> > encodings?
> 
> Now I'm curious -- how do you even find out it's a Terminal window 
> you're looking at, rather than say an xterm?

Never mind, I just did a printenv and saw
TERM_PROGRAM=Apple_Terminal

But I also saw
__CF_USER_TEXT_ENCODING=0x1F5:0:0
...I wonder who's putting that there?

-- 
David Eppstein                      http://www.ics.uci.edu/~eppstein/
Univ. of California, Irvine, School of Information & Computer Science


From martin at v.loewis.de  Tue Apr 13 17:02:36 2004
From: martin at v.loewis.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?=22Martin_v=2E_L=F6wis=22?=)
Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2004 23:02:36 +0200
Subject: print u"\u0432": why is this so hard? UnciodeEncodeError
In-Reply-To: <16507.22215.60324.63839@montanaro.dyndns.org>
References: <cpa4qrvb529.fsf@cabernet.nelson.monkey.org>
	<c52lu9$j8c$03$1@news.t-online.com>
	<eppstein-55126D.00202008042004@news.service.uci.edu>
	<c546v4$bi5$02$1@news.t-online.com>
	<m38yh3hhxv.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk>
	<c5cgq3$tps$00$1@news.t-online.com>
	<16505.58626.39783.581506@montanaro.dyndns.org>
	<c5en2q$mjl$01$1@news.t-online.com>
	<16507.22215.60324.63839@montanaro.dyndns.org>
Message-ID: <407C556C.5000305@v.loewis.de>

Skip Montanaro wrote:
>     Skip> I generally use xterm instead of Terminal.app.  I think it's
>     Skip> encoding is latin-1.
> 
>     Martin> Not on OS X.
> 
> I run xterms under XDarwin.  

Sorry, I completely misunderstood.

My apologies,
Martin



From newsgroups at jhrothjr.com  Wed Apr  7 10:33:30 2004
From: newsgroups at jhrothjr.com (John Roth)
Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2004 10:33:30 -0400
Subject: Are line continuations needed?
References: <407409ef.82801353@news.eircom.net>
	<40740f99@duster.adelaide.on.net>
Message-ID: <10784c8ps1vsu34@news.supernews.com>


"Derek Thomson" <derek at hiredgoons.org> wrote in message
news:40740f99 at duster.adelaide.on.net...
> Russell Wallace wrote:
> > Hi all,
> >
> > Python lets you continue a single logical line across more than one
> > physical line, either by putting a \ at the end or letting it happen
> > automatically with an incomplete infix operator.
> >
> > I'm wondering how often is this feature needed? Would there be any
> > problems if it weren't part of the language?
> >
>
> I just needed to use this a few minutes ago, in a class declaration ...
>
> class ParticleDistributionBehaviorServer \
>            (Microphysics__POA.ParticleDistributionBehavior):
>
> I had to split the line to fit within 80 columns, and without the '\'
> character I get the following error:
>
> =====
> $ python scoping_server.py --POA
>    File "scoping_server.py", line 8
>      class ParticleDistributionBehaviorServer
>                                              ^
> SyntaxError: invalid syntax
> =====
>
> So the fact that you don't need it in the case of incomplete expressions
> eliminates *most* of the need for it, but there are still a few cases
> where it is required.

Technically, you could have split it at the period, but that
might be even worse in terms of readability.

BTW - why did it have to fit in 80 columns?

John Roth
>
> Regards,
> Derek.




From rick.ratzel at magma-da.com  Wed Apr 28 13:12:33 2004
From: rick.ratzel at magma-da.com (Rick Ratzel)
Date: Wed, 28 Apr 2004 12:12:33 -0500
Subject: debugging code
In-Reply-To: <3064b51d.0404280658.ccf1894@posting.google.com>
References: <3064b51d.0404271139.6ec7057@posting.google.com>
	<408ee541$0$46510$39cecf19@news.twtelecom.net>
	<3064b51d.0404280658.ccf1894@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <408fe602$0$3708$39cecf19@news.twtelecom.net>

beliavsky at aol.com wrote:
> 
> <SNIP>
> 
> Thanks -- I will take your suggestion. Where are the Python command
> line options like -O and -OO documented? Typing 'python -h' just gives
> me
> 
> -O     : optimize generated bytecode (a tad; also PYTHONOPTIMIZE=x)
> -OO    : remove doc-strings in addition to the -O optimizations

    Thats strange.  Here they are for Python 2.3.3 as built on my system 
(should be the same for you):

[rlratzel at gt6 ~] python -h
usage: python [option] ... [-c cmd | file | -] [arg] ...
Options and arguments (and corresponding environment variables):
-c cmd : program passed in as string (terminates option list)
-d     : debug output from parser (also PYTHONDEBUG=x)
-E     : ignore environment variables (such as PYTHONPATH)
-h     : print this help message and exit
-i     : inspect interactively after running script, (also PYTHONINSPECT=x)
          and force prompts, even if stdin does not appear to be a terminal
-O     : optimize generated bytecode (a tad; also PYTHONOPTIMIZE=x)
-OO    : remove doc-strings in addition to the -O optimizations
-Q arg : division options: -Qold (default), -Qwarn, -Qwarnall, -Qnew
-S     : don't imply 'import site' on initialization
-t     : issue warnings about inconsistent tab usage (-tt: issue errors)
-u     : unbuffered binary stdout and stderr (also PYTHONUNBUFFERED=x)
          see man page for details on internal buffering relating to '-u'
-v     : verbose (trace import statements) (also PYTHONVERBOSE=x)
-V     : print the Python version number and exit
-W arg : warning control (arg is action:message:category:module:lineno)
-x     : skip first line of source, allowing use of non-Unix forms of #!cmd
file   : program read from script file
-      : program read from stdin (default; interactive mode if a tty)
arg ...: arguments passed to program in sys.argv[1:]
Other environment variables:
PYTHONSTARTUP: file executed on interactive startup (no default)
PYTHONPATH   : ':'-separated list of directories prefixed to the
                default module search path.  The result is sys.path.
PYTHONHOME   : alternate <prefix> directory (or <prefix>:<exec_prefix>).
                The default module search path uses <prefix>/pythonX.X.
PYTHONCASEOK : ignore case in 'import' statements (Windows).




From Joseph.V.Laughlin at boeing.com  Wed Apr 28 17:40:39 2004
From: Joseph.V.Laughlin at boeing.com (Laughlin, Joseph V)
Date: Wed, 28 Apr 2004 14:40:39 -0700
Subject: Kiwi
Message-ID: <67B3A7DA6591BE439001F2736233351202876D0E@xch-nw-28.nw.nos.boeing.com>

Is anyone using the Kiwi wrappers for pygtk?  Is there an updated
version of it?  The one I can find is from 2002 and it doesn't seem to
work too well (for starters, it's trying to import libglade and not
gtk.glade)...

Joe Laughlin
Phantom Works - Integrated Technology Development Labs 
The Boeing Company






From fumanchu at amor.org  Thu Apr 15 12:35:09 2004
From: fumanchu at amor.org (Robert Brewer)
Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2004 09:35:09 -0700
Subject: CamelCase versus wide_names (Prothon)
Message-ID: <DE1CF2B4FEC4A342BF62B6B2B334601E561FFA@opus.amorhq.net>

Mark Hahn wrote:
> We have agreed in Prothon that unlike Python we are going to be 100%
> consistant in our var and method naming.

Until the unforeseen happens, of course. ;)

> Now we are in the midst of a discussion of camelCase versus 
> wide_names...of course in the Python world you already have
> wide_names as your standard, but could you for the moment
> pretend you were picking your standard from scratch (as we
> are doing in the Prothon world) and give your vote for which
> you'd prefer?

Not a vote, just an observation: if you use file names for object names
(as in Python, one file per module), you're probably going to want to
specify all_lowercase_wide_names to avoid case-sensitivity issues on
various platforms.


FuManChu



From simoninusa2001 at yahoo.co.uk  Fri Apr  9 15:53:39 2004
From: simoninusa2001 at yahoo.co.uk (simo)
Date: 9 Apr 2004 12:53:39 -0700
Subject: Why Activestate Python ?
References: <8089854e.0404090025.141f090c@posting.google.com>
	<1afv95dy6164y.1a9l3etptcw8w.dlg@40tude.net>
Message-ID: <30260531.0404091153.57b571c0@posting.google.com>

It's a bloody site easier to install on Solaris if you don't have root
access.

Unfortunately, the same doesn't seem to go for Windows - the official
one seems easier to install without Admin access.


From has.temp2 at virgin.net  Wed Apr 28 11:22:40 2004
From: has.temp2 at virgin.net (has)
Date: 28 Apr 2004 08:22:40 -0700
Subject: What is good about Prothon?
References: <bniq80hiib0gauiltuntk9jvia2getbnj4@4ax.com>
	<69cbbef2.0404271534.6a7c90e6@posting.google.com>
	<oiCjc.9622$Qy.6230@fed1read04>
Message-ID: <69cbbef2.0404280722.704c7c97@posting.google.com>

"Mark Hahn" <mark at prothon.org> wrote in message news:<oiCjc.9622$Qy.6230 at fed1read04>...
> has wrote:
> 
> > (Note: scripts are compiled, so you'll need a Mac to view source.)
> 
> Can you at least make a screen snapshot available or something for the "rest
> of us"?

Eh, I'll see what I can do. Here's a short example to get you started:


on makeStack()
    script
        property class : "Stack"
        property _linkedList : missing value
        -------
        on push(val)
            script node
                property nval : val
                property chain : _linkedList
            end script
            set _linkedList to node
            return
        end push
        --
        on top()
            if _linkedList is missing value then error "Can't get top:
stack is empty." number -1728
            return _linkedList's nval
        end top
        --
        on pop()
            if _linkedList is missing value then error "Can't pop:
stack is empty." number -1728
            set val to get _linkedList's nval
            set _linkedList to get _linkedList's chain
            return val
        end pop
        --
        on isEmpty()
            return (_linkedList is missing value)
        end isEmpty
    end script
end makeStack

-- TEST

set foo to makeStack()
foo's push(3)
foo's push(5)
log foo's pop() --> 5
log foo's pop() --> 3



In AS, every compiled script is itself a script object. Scripts can be
loaded into other scripts using the 'load script' command; this
provides the foundation for library-based design. Script objects can
also be declared within other script objects and handlers (aka
procedures) using the 'script [identifier]...end script' block. This,
along with their support for delegation via the 'parent' property,
allows you to do prototype-based OOP. Incidentally, because script
objects have first-class syntactic support, they also support modular
design within a single file, sectioning off parts as separate
namespaces without having to move code off into separate files as
you'd do in Python; e.g.:

----- begin script (global namespace) -----

property foo : 0

script Sub_Namespace1
   -- properties and handlers here
end

script Sub_Namespace2
   -- properties and handlers here
end

on bar()
    ...
end bar

----- end script -----

(e.g. This ability makes for a very handy halfway stage when
refactoring one file into several or vice-versa.)

Thus a single, very generic type (script) can perform all the roles
that it takes Python several specialised and largely
non-interchangeable types (classobj, instance, module) to do. It's
such a clean, simple and extremely flexible way to do encapsulation
that, though I can understand why more static languages might require
the extra layers and complexity, I've never understood why languages
like Python, Smalltalk, etc. feel such need to erect all these extra
hurdles for themselves. Maybe they just like making work for
themselves? Of course, greater freedom also implies greater
responsibility and a better understanding of what you're trying to
achieve, which might freak some folk from the BDSM school of
programming, but that's their problem - and loss.



Other nice stuff: while AS allows only a single delegate per object,
the ability to compose object behaviour at runtime makes it much more
powerful than class-based single inheritance, and less of a PITA to
use than MI. Just create and delegate-chain together the objects you
want as and when you need them.

e.g. I used this approach in my original HTMLTemplate library to
construct the various template objects - see
<http://freespace.virgin.net/hamish.sanderson/TemplateConstructors.rtf>
for the relevant module (forgive the nasty source code-munging bit in
the middle, but one of AS's limitations is an inability to add/remove
slots once an object is created*). Compare this with the Python port
where I had to use MI to compose behaviour
<http://freespace.virgin.net/hamish.sanderson/htmltemplate.html> -
particularly the older 0.3.2 release where I managed to spaghetti the
inheritance tree something awful on my first attempt (I had no such
problems designing the AS version where composing objects was a
no-brainer).

[* Python shouldn't feel too smug, however, seeing as I had no better
luck trying to dynamically attach property objects to class instances,
and had to resort to sticking nodes into a private dict accessed via
__getattr__ and __setattr__.]



Obviously, there's some things about the AS implementation that don't
translate well to a more Python-like language design: e.g. its use of
object-centric Smalltalk/Obj-C-style message passing instead of
Python-style bound functions make callbacks a bit of a chore (you have
to pass the entire script object around rather than just a function
object/pointer), and its lexical/dynamic variable scoping is a bit of
a disaster area (though that may simply be down to poor implementation
than fundamental design limitation).

What's important is just to note the extreme simplicity and total lack
of "sophistication" in its script object system; it may be a little
_too_ simple for an industrial-size language, but it's a heck of a lot
easier to start with an overly simple but clean and coherent model and
build upward than begin with something that's over-complex and muddled
and try to clean it up. Good programmers know how to add features;
great ones know how NOT to.


From fredrik at pythonware.com  Wed Apr 21 12:03:40 2004
From: fredrik at pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2004 18:03:40 +0200
Subject: from newbie: how specify # of times to invoke a regex;
	conv tuple to string
References: <40866ae1$1@news.bezeqint.net>
Message-ID: <c66604$1qq$1@sea.gmane.org>

Avraham Makeler wrote:

>       Summary of Question: How do you specify the number of times to run a
> reg ex search using a complex reg ex?
>
>        The reg _expression I wrote goes like this:
>
>                    MyRE =
> re.compile('([k-z])(?:\'{6,9})(64|32|16|8|4|2|1)(\.)?')
>
>        I ran it using this:
>
>                    tplstFound = MyRE.findall(InputStr)
>
>       The problem is that this solution processes the whole input string. I
> only need the first matches notes. (I don't know if this is going to make
> any practical difference, since the name generation is a one-time thing, and
> anyway PCs are very fast these days.)
>
>       I could not see a way of writing the reg ex so that it specifies only
> the first 25 matches. I tried putting the {m,n} construct (ie {0,25}) at the
> end of the re ex but it did not work.

{m,n} binds to the last expression element, not the entire expression.
use (?:re){m,n} to repeat the entire re:

    "(?:([k-z])(?:\'{6,9})(64|32|16|8|4|2|1)(\.)?){0,25}"

</F>






From mark at prothon.org  Fri Apr 23 14:27:59 2004
From: mark at prothon.org (Mark Hahn)
Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2004 11:27:59 -0700
Subject: Why we will use obj$func() often
References: <d2Uhc.22272$dZ1.1600@fed1read04>	<84Uhc.22278$dZ1.5087@fed1read04>	<mailman.927.1082665370.20120.python-list@python.org>	<8AWhc.23114$dZ1.11070@fed1read04>
	<mailman.939.1082697809.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<EradnVFq3IILkBTdRVn-vA@powergate.ca>
Message-ID: <Pedic.28731$dZ1.11479@fed1read04>


"Peter Hansen" <peter at engcorp.com> wrote ...

> Mike, you haven't been keeping up with the other thread.  I think the
> decision is now:
>
>    fish_height$some_where()

That is like SO two-hours-ago.  Marcia like, told me that Biff like, said
that Trish like, said camelCase was SO out, can you BELIEVE IT????




From michael at foord.net  Tue Apr  6 11:21:25 2004
From: michael at foord.net (Fuzzyman)
Date: 6 Apr 2004 08:21:25 -0700
Subject: ANNOUNCE : dataenc.py and Pythonutils
References: <8089854e.0404052348.15e3a04e@posting.google.com>
	<XbWdnW_pzooxEe_dRVn-ug@powergate.ca>
Message-ID: <8089854e.0404060721.1aa998c4@posting.google.com>

Peter Hansen <peter at engcorp.com> wrote in message news:<XbWdnW_pzooxEe_dRVn-ug at powergate.ca>...
> Fuzzyman wrote:
> 
> > http://www.voidspace.org.uk/atlantibots/pythonutils.html
> > 
> > Various Python Resources
> > 
> > Dateutils :
> > Version 1.0.2 
> > 
> > This is a set of functions for dealing with dates - written for a
> > little tool called 'Victory Days'. They are particularly useful for
> > dealing with appointments - e.g. the second Tuesday in March etc...
> > 
> > The functions will tell you what day of the week a date is, work out
> > the 'Julian day number' of a date is, correctly add numbers of days
> > (weeks, months etc) to a date and tell you the number of days between
> > a date, format a datestring etc. Full correction for leap years and
> > much more.

> 
> No tests?  :-(  How do you know it works?
> 
> -Peter

I use it in various applications... particularly the application
'victorydays' on the same page. (also a Customer Contact database I am
writing for our company intranet).

In fact there are a couple of tests in the module - but not many...
still - I use it regularly and haven't made any changes for quite some
time - I consider it stable now.... :-)

Regards,


Fuzzy


http://www.voidspace.org.uk/atlantibots/pythonutils.html


From peter at engcorp.com  Wed Apr 21 16:15:41 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2004 16:15:41 -0400
Subject: Python editors for Windows question
In-Reply-To: <D6Ahc.2737911$iA2.315963@news.easynews.com>
References: <D6Ahc.2737911$iA2.315963@news.easynews.com>
Message-ID: <idCdnRW309PzSxvdRVn-gQ@powergate.ca>

Dustin wrote:

> I just started programming in Python last night, and I've really enjoyed my
> experience so far. I would like to know if there is a Windows editor that
> recognizes Python and will support a module syntax/definition lists For
> instance, let's say that I set form = cgi and then when I hit the period
> (".") on the keyboard, a list of objects shows up, such as FieldStorage(),
> etc.. Any suggestions are appreciated. Thank you!

SciTE can handle that: http://scintilla.sourceforge.net/SciTE.html
So can practically every other halfway decent editor these days,
most likely.

-Peter


From jack at performancedrivers.com  Wed Apr 21 11:34:21 2004
From: jack at performancedrivers.com (Jack Diederich)
Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2004 11:34:21 -0400
Subject: Optimizing a text statistics function
In-Reply-To: <c661pe$tie$1@f1node01.rhrz.uni-bonn.de>
References: <c661pe$tie$1@f1node01.rhrz.uni-bonn.de>
Message-ID: <20040421153421.GA9062@performancedrivers.com>

On Wed, Apr 21, 2004 at 04:51:56PM +0200, Nickolay Kolev wrote:
> It is really simple - it reads the file in memory, splits it on 
> whitespace, strips punctuation characters and transforms all remaining 
> elements to lowercase. It then looks through what has been left and 
> creates a list of tuples (count, word) which contain each unique word 
> and the number of time it appears in the text.
> 
> The code (~30 lines and easy to read :-) can be found at 
> http://www.uni-bonn.de/~nmkolev/python/textStats.py
> 
> I am now looking for a way to make the whole thing run faster.

Do you actually need it to be faster?  If the answer is "no, but
it would be nice." then you are already done *wink*.

A good profiling strategy is to wrap each part in a function
so you can see which lines consume the most CPU.  Just make sure
to wrap big pieces so the function call overhead doesn't get
added ten thousand times and distort the picture.

You will get a bunch of suggestions on how to make the code faster,
so I'll skip those.  What you want to do is only do the expensive
parsing once and not every time you run your program.  Try pickle.
[untested code follows]

import pickle

def proc(txt_filename): # txt_filename like 'dickens.txt'
  ... exiting code ...
  reutrn wordCountList

def procWrap(txt_filename):
  cache_filename = tst_filename.replace('.txt', '.pickle')
  try:
    fob = open(cache_filename)
    wordCountList = pickle.load(fob)
  except IOError:
    wordCountList = proc(txt_filename)
    fob = open(cache_filename, 'w+')
    pickle.dump(wordCountList, fob, -1) # see the docs about the '-1'
  return wordCountList

Use procWrap() instead of proc() to get the list.  You'll need
to delete the .pickle file every time you change proc() so the
pickle gets refreshed.  This way you never have to care about how
effecient the parsing loop is, because you only have to call it once.

-jackdied



From imbosol at aerojockey.invalid  Sun Apr  4 20:14:58 2004
From: imbosol at aerojockey.invalid (Carl Banks)
Date: Mon, 05 Apr 2004 00:14:58 GMT
Subject: Python is faster than C
References: <406F0907.96F37EA1@tunes.org> <7xy8pcogaa.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<406F454B.C4CC8063@tunes.org> <7xekr4vdek.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<406F5E95.EBE6D3E8@tunes.org>
Message-ID: <6y1cc.1345$Qv6.328@fe2.columbus.rr.com>

Armin Rigo wrote:
> Paul Rubin wrote:
>> I think you're saying that instead of having xrange return a special
>> object, range should return that special object instead.  I'm not too
>> clear on the distinction.
> 
> No, range should return an object that is a list, as far as you can tell
> from Python, but which is represented more efficiently than an array of
> objects internally.  The distinction is between the language level (it
> would be a list, with all operations, etc.) and the implementation
> (there is no reason why all lists should be arrays of PyObjects
> internally).
> 
> Another example would be 'a'*999999999: the result is a string, but
> there is no reason that it takes 100MB of memory.  Instead, store it
> into a C structure that contains a pointer to the original string object
> 'a' and the repetition counter, but still give this C structure the
> Python type str, so that the difference doesn't show up and the Python
> language remains simple.  (This is a bit difficult to implement
> currently in CPython, but not impossible.)

Hmm.  What would be really cool is an abstract sequence type with all
kinds of knobs to specify the operations you want to support.  In
other words, rather than saying "I want a vector" or "I want a linked
list," you say, "I want fast indexing, fast sorting, no insertion, and
no resizing," or "I want no indexing, no sorting, fast insertion, fast
appending on both ends".  Then, let the computer choose the actual
implementation.

Better yet, if the compilation is highly optimized, the compiler could
trace the path of the object (best as it can) through the program, and
maybe use profiling data too, to see for itself the how the object is
used, thus freeing the programmer from even specifying the operations.
The programmer could say, "I want a sequence," use it, and the
compiler could choose the best implementation.

The only thing is, I think that would be prohibitively difficult in an
on-the-fly compiled language like Python.  Even having a list with one
or two optimized forms would have drawbacks: it would be hard to
optimize the fast parts with the interpretter second-guessing you all
the time, and it would be hard to write extension modules, since
they'd have to be aware of all the different layouts, or have to
always use an API.

And, frankly, I think having a simple implementation is important,
too.  Complex implementations are more likely to have lots of bugs
that could burden users more than some distinct optimized types would.
In my opinion, Python is doing the right thing by having one internal
form per type.

Given that, and keeping in mind that some of these optimizations
really do help, the question to ask is: do the extra power and
efficiency the optimized version gives you justify the extra burden of
complexity on the programmer?  I believe that the answer is
occasionally yes.

Consider tuples.  Tuples are for the most part an optimized version
of list, but with a few powers list doesn't have, and without a few
powers list has.  It's the same with iterators.

IMO, the the benefit an iterator gives you is far more than the
benefit a tuple gives you.  I would say 'yes' for an iterator, it's
worth a bit of complexity; and probably 'no' for a tuple (although
it's close).


my-two-cents-ly y'rs,

-- 
CARL BANKS                      http://www.aerojockey.com/software
"If you believe in yourself, drink your school, stay on drugs, and
don't do milk, you can get work." 
          -- Parody of Mr. T from a Robert Smigel Cartoon


From wilkSPAM at OUTflibuste.net  Tue Apr 27 09:45:02 2004
From: wilkSPAM at OUTflibuste.net (Wilk)
Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2004 15:45:02 +0200
Subject: Is Perl *that* good?
References: <c6ich0$c5mee$1@ID-205437.news.uni-berlin.de>
	<iL3jc.232$Yc.2330@news4.e.nsc.no>
	<108q51j4dscn7dc@corp.supernews.com> <knbjc.267$id.3998@news2.e.nsc.no>
	<pan.2004.04.26.20.50.19.843510@hotmail.com>
	<87fzaqmm8t.fsf@strauser.com>
	<38ec68a6.0404262308.50029919@posting.google.com>
	<du765bles9i.fsf@lehtori.cc.tut.fi>
	<roy-830B7D.08351627042004@reader2.panix.com>
Message-ID: <87u0z55ych.fsf@blakie.riol>

Roy Smith <roy at panix.com> writes:

> Ville Vainio <ville at spammers.com> wrote:
>
>> >>>>> "Asun" == Asun Friere <afriere at yahoo.co.uk> writes:
>> 
>>     Asun> Wouldn't you need to import the re module and compile the
>>     Asun> pattern first?  (And wouldn't you use 'search' rather than
>>     Asun> 'match'?)  And
>> 
>> I rarely compile regexps, just pass the string to the re functions.
>
> For the occasional ad-hoc match, this is fine.  The advantage of 
> pre-compiling is that it's faster, since it doesn't have to recompile 
> the regex each time.
>
> I don't see anything in the reference manual which says re.match() 
> caches compilations, but I suspect it does.  Even a trivial check for 
> "thisRegEx is lastRegEx" would be sufficient to negate the speed 
> advantage of pre-compiling in most cases.  Anybody know if it does this?


Looking at the source code of sre.py, it seems that regexp are
auto-cached anyway...

def match(pattern, string, flags=0):
    """Try to apply the pattern at the start of the string, returning
    a match object, or None if no match was found."""
    return _compile(pattern, flags).match(string)

def compile(pattern, flags=0):
    "Compile a regular expression pattern, returning a pattern object."
    return _compile(pattern, flags)

def _compile(*key):
    # internal: compile pattern
    p = _cache.get(key)
    if p is not None:
        return p

I think the advantage of re.compile is just to don't have to repeat the
string everytimes...

-- 
Wilk - http://flibuste.net


From tim.one at comcast.net  Sat Apr  3 22:07:55 2004
From: tim.one at comcast.net (Tim Peters)
Date: Sat, 3 Apr 2004 22:07:55 -0500
Subject: minor bug in cmath.asin?
In-Reply-To: <m34qs0ikm0.fsf@localhost.localdomain>
Message-ID: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCGEAEKAAB.tim.one@comcast.net>

[Edwin Young]
> ...
> Does anyone know the history of the cmath implementation? There are
> some interesting formulas used for some of the trig functions and I'm
> curious to know where they came from.

You can browse the entire CVS history of any part of Python online at
SourceForge.  What that won't tell you in this case is that Guido originally
checked in the module as contributed by a scientist, who copied the formulas
out of some forgotten book -- and it wasn't a book about numerical analysis.
IOW, the formulas were numerically naive.  A few of those have been improved
over time, but nobody has cared enough about this module to maintain it
seriously.




From junkmail at solumslekt.org  Fri Apr  2 05:26:58 2004
From: junkmail at solumslekt.org (Leif B. Kristensen)
Date: Fri, 02 Apr 2004 12:26:58 +0200
Subject: HTML writer
References: <yL9bc.45202$wH3.33614@newssvr25.news.prodigy.com>
Message-ID: <Kbbbc.4529$zf6.60969@news4.e.nsc.no>

Moosebumps wrote:

> I know there newer things like CSS and XHTML -- are these more or less
> effort to generate?  i.e. are they more complicated, or do they have
> more uniform syntax?  What do they necessarily buy you?

I don't know anything about Python in relation to dynamic web pages, but
I've worked quite a lot with PHP in this respect. XHTML is a very clean
implementation of HTML, and should, at least in principle, be much more
easily rendered by any browser than ninetyish tag soup. From a coder's
point of view, it also of course has a lot of aesthetic appeal.

The nicest thing about the XHTML/CSS combination, is the clean division
between structure and presentation. The <FONT> tag should go the same
way as the GOTO.

I would recommend to read up the specs of XHTML 1.0 on
<url:http://www.w3c.org/>, write some experimental markup, and then try
to validate it on <url:http://validator.w3.org/>. You'll get the hang
of it after some iterations. 

There are many good tutorials on the net for writing XHTML and CSS; do a
search on Google. You can of course also learn an awful lot by viewing
the source of other people's validating pages. 

regards,
-- 
Leif Biberg Kristensen
http://solumslekt.org/
Validare necesse est


From tjreedy at udel.edu  Wed Apr 21 14:01:07 2004
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2004 14:01:07 -0400
Subject: Generator inside a class prevent __del__ ??
References: <4085BA96.651D2E4A@free.fr><mailman.819.1082507351.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<40866ECD.A45758B9@free.fr>
Message-ID: <c66css$lku$1@sea.gmane.org>


"Emmanuel" <eastier at free.fr> wrote in message
news:40866ECD.A45758B9 at free.fr...
>
>
> Terry Reedy a ?crit :
> > > >>> class toto:
> > >             def __init__(self):
> > >                 print "init"
> > >                 self.Coroutine = self.Gen()
> >
> > This creates a reference loop.  Delete this (and correct typo below)
and
> > 'problem' will disappear.

To amplify: the usual idiom for an instance-associated generator is to name
the generator function (method) __iter__ (with one param,  self) and to
create and get a reference to the generator via iter() or let the for loop
mechanism do so for you.

c = C(*args)
cgen =iter(c)

Then there is no reference loop.  And you can pass around the cgen object
just like any other.  If you only need the instance after initialization to
get the generator and you only need one generator for the instance, then
combine the two lines into

cgen = iter(C(*args))

and the *only* reference to the instance is the one in the generator, which
will disappear at the end of a for loop or with an explicit 'del cgen'.

There is also the question whether you actually *need* to get rid of the
object while the program is still running instead of just letting the
program finish and clean up.

Terry J. Reedy







From rajarshi at presidency.com  Mon Apr  5 20:55:00 2004
From: rajarshi at presidency.com (Rajarshi Guha)
Date: Mon, 05 Apr 2004 20:55:00 -0400
Subject: regex question
Message-ID: <pan.2004.04.06.00.54.58.864209@presidency.com>

Hi,
  this is not specifically a Python question but since I'm doing it in
Python I thought I'd ask here.

I have a BibTeX file with entries of the form

@Article{dkapp3,
  author = 	 {Kier, L.B},
  title = 	 {Distinguishing Atom Differences in a Molecular Graph Index},
  journal = 	 {Quant. Struct.-Act. Relat. Pharmacol.,Chem. Bio},
  year = 	 {1986},
  OPTkey = 	 {},
  volume = 	 {5},
  OPTnumber = 	 {},
  pages = 	 {7-12},
  OPTmonth = 	 {},
  OPTnote = 	 {},
  OPTannote = 	 {}
}

(it also has entries for Book and InBook)

I have an re that is able to get each bibitem: @Article{(.*?)}\n
>From the result I can easily get the key using: @.+?\{(.+?),

I was wondering if it would be possible to do the two things in one re.
That is, first get the string of 1 bibitem and then within that get the
key from the matched bibitem. 

I think I should be using a lookbehind(?) but I'm not sure.

Any pointers would be appreicated

Thanks


-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Rajarshi Guha  <rajarshi at presidency.com> <http://jijo.cjb.net>
GPG Fingerprint: 0CCA 8EE2 2EEB 25E2 AB04  06F7 1BB9 E634 9B87 56EE
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Q:  What's purple and commutes?
A:  An abelian grape.



From csad7 at yahoo.com  Fri Apr  9 17:16:57 2004
From: csad7 at yahoo.com (chris)
Date: Fri, 09 Apr 2004 23:16:57 +0200
Subject: raise Exception Syntax question
Message-ID: <c573s4$oqi$03$1@news.t-online.com>

hi,
i am wondering if there is a difference between the following 
possibilities to raise an exception, the first seems to be in all the 
books about python i have but the second gives the same result at least 
under Python 2.3.3:

 >>> import exceptions
 >>> e = exceptions.Exception


 >>> raise e, "MESSAGE"
Traceback (most recent call last):
   File "<interactive input>", line 1, in ?
Exception: MESSAGE


 >>> raise e("MESSAGE")
Traceback (most recent call last):
   File "<interactive input>", line 1, in ?
Exception: MESSAGE


is there a preferable way?

thanks
chris



From fgeiger at datec.at  Tue Apr 13 13:48:02 2004
From: fgeiger at datec.at (F. GEIGER)
Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2004 19:48:02 +0200
Subject: [wxPython] wxListCtrl_virtual crashes and I can't find what I'm
	doing wrong
References: <c5h3to$8uk$1@newshispeed.ch> <407C1D34.8000205@alldunn.com>
Message-ID: <c5h94q$cba$1@newshispeed.ch>

Thank you, Robin, for answering that quick!

"Robin Dunn" <robin at alldunn.com> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:407C1D34.8000205 at alldunn.com...
> F. GEIGER wrote:
> [...]
>
> > And now I have problems:
> >
> > This control is named VipAPSpooler. It first used a wxTimer, to update
> > itself periodically: If the underlying model had changed in the number
of
> > items, it exec'ed a DeleteAllItems() and a SetItemCount().
>
> Since it's virtual just a SetItemCount should be enough.

Okay, I'll try that.


>
> >
> > This did not work: The debugger halted in the MainFrame's(!)
on-idle-method
> > in line
> >
> > currentTitle = self.GetTitle()
> >
> > saying "Inappropriate argument type: an integer is required".
>
> If an exception happens in some of the C++ wrapper code (such as after
> returning from an event handler or a callback), then the next time
> control enters Python code the exception is detected and raised from
> that point.  Normally the C++ code will detect the situation and print
> the traceback and then clear the error, but it's possible that this is a
> case that it is missed.
>
> Does the same thing happen if you run outside of WinIDE?  Try running it

Yes, but see below.


> from a command-line window using python.exe so you can see any warning
> log messages that wxWidgets is issuing.  I seem to recall that WinIDE
> has a setting that causes it to stop on all exceptions, even if they are
> caught or cleared, perhaps changing that will help.
>
>
> >
> > I thought, that using too many wxTimer-s could cause this problem (other
> > controls used timers too to update themselves).
>
> Doubtful, unless you have dozens of timers.

Glad to here that. I'll unroll all my changes regarding timers. They are
really handy for having controls updating themselves.

>
> >
> > So I decided to eliminate all timers and to write an update method for
all
> > controls that should be able to update themselves. This update-method
were
> > then called from the MainFrames's on-idle-method. The rationale: No more
> > timers and only one on-idle-method.
> >
> > But that did not solve the problem. The same and sometimes other weired
> > errors popped up now in code called by OnGetItemAttr() ans
OnGetItemText()
> > of the virtual wxListCtrl.
> >
> > Example:
> >
> >    def __str__(self):
> >       if self._value: # <- "Inappropriate argument type: an integer is
> > required".
> >          return str(self._value)
> >       return ''
> >
> > Or this:
> >
> >    def OnGetItemAttr(self, item):
> >       if item == self.model().currentLineNbr(): # <- "Inappropriate
argument
> > type: an integer is
> >          return self._attr
> >       return None
> >
> >
> > Executing the offending line in the Debug Probe (yes, it's WingIDE) in
each
> > case passes w/o problems - weird. Looking at the stack data doesn't show
any
> > data corruption, everything seems okay.
>
> Because it probably happened in whatever weas executed before the error
> was detected.
>
> >
> > I commented out this and that and seem to have found out, that as soon
> > SetItemCount() is called, the control is no more able to do its job.
>
>
> Do you also implement OnGetItemImage?  Does it always return an integer?
>   (If you don't use an ImageList for this control then just return -1.)
>

That's it <face flushed red/>.

I had written:

def OnGetItemImage(self, item):
#    if item % 3 == 0:
#        return self.idx1
#    else:
#        return -1
    pass

Oh god, how embarrassing!

When I deleted the whole method, wxPython 2.5 threw a wxAssert stating, that
OnGetItemImage() shouldn't be called or something like that (can reproduce
that if there's interest on it). Anyway, overriding this method seems to be
a must. But with the right return value, of course...

So, writing

def OnGetItemImage(self, item):
    return -1

did it. Small cause, big effect.

Again, thanks a lot, Robin!

Kind regards
Franz GEIGER



> --
> Robin Dunn
> Software Craftsman
> http://wxPython.org  Java give you jitters?  Relax with wxPython!
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: wx-users-unsubscribe at lists.wxwidgets.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: wx-users-help at lists.wxwidgets.org
>




From jcarlson at uci.edu  Thu Apr  8 23:28:29 2004
From: jcarlson at uci.edu (Josiah Carlson)
Date: Thu, 08 Apr 2004 20:28:29 -0700
Subject: GUI Frameworks in Python?
In-Reply-To: <4073C495.2050106@cosc.canterbury.ac.nz>
References: <mailman.102.1080629227.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<930ba99a.0404030246.786455f5@posting.google.com>
	<8ef9bea6.0404041009.26ae2683@posting.google.com>
	<c4tddj$2mjvdq$1@ID-169208.news.uni-berlin.de>
	<d86dnW_ktOblWu_dRVn-sQ@comcast.com>
	<c502p8$qh3$1@news.service.uci.edu>
	<4073C495.2050106@cosc.canterbury.ac.nz>
Message-ID: <c555f9$2rq$1@news.service.uci.edu>

>> Simpler?  According to Greg, passing ids of the widget was a 
>> pain...well, in 2.5 you can pass the widget.  Apparently that is 
>> significant enough to warrant Greg complaining about it, and Robin 
>> Dunn to fix it.
> 
> 
> Like I said, it's not a big deal on its own, just something
> that seemed needlessly awkward, among many others. Some
> other examples: You can't create a widget until there's a
> parent for it, forcing you to create widgets in a certain
> order. When you create a widget, you have to either specify
> an ID number, or -1 to say you don't care what its ID number
> is (I didn't, mostly), instead of just letting it default.
> Most widget constructors seem to take about half a dozen
> parameters that you have to get in the right order because
> you can't specify them using keywords. And so on.

You know, the vast majority of widgets are created in the exact same way...
widget(parent, id,...)

Where everything in the '...' part /can/ be a keyword, unless that has 
changed for 2.5 (it works in 2.4 just fine).

In terms of ordering, requiring a parent to be present before you create 
the child, I believe, is pretty standard.  Conceptually it seems to be 
so that you can hook the child up to the parent event handlers during 
initialization, so you don't have to do multi-part initialization.


> All these small things added up to an experience that I
> didn't enjoy much overall.

That is unfortunate, but I suppose as long as you found a toolkit that 
works and that you like using, it's all good.

  - Josiah


From roy at panix.com  Thu Apr 15 13:44:47 2004
From: roy at panix.com (Roy Smith)
Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2004 13:44:47 -0400
Subject: CamelCase versus wide_names (Prothon)
References: <UHxfc.9323$dZ1.3740@fed1read04>
	<407ec022$0$54153$1b2cd167@news.wanadoo.nl>
Message-ID: <roy-C4FD90.13444715042004@reader2.panix.com>

Here's my entirely non-scientific two cents on this.

I stated out programming on teletypes and card punches which only had a 
single case, so I got used to underscores.  When bumpyCase started 
showing up 10 or 15 years ago, I thought it was froofy and ugly and 
hated it.  Gradually, I've come around and now find mixed upper/lower 
very natural (including the initial cap for class names) and despise 
underscores.  If an old goat like me can change, I figure everybody else 
can too.

It's entirely unclear how any of the above should influence your 
decisions on language design :-)


From mcfletch at rogers.com  Fri Apr 23 01:22:44 2004
From: mcfletch at rogers.com (Mike C. Fletcher)
Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2004 01:22:44 -0400
Subject: Why we will use obj$func() often
In-Reply-To: <8AWhc.23114$dZ1.11070@fed1read04>
References: <d2Uhc.22272$dZ1.1600@fed1read04>
	<84Uhc.22278$dZ1.5087@fed1read04>	<mailman.927.1082665370.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<8AWhc.23114$dZ1.11070@fed1read04>
Message-ID: <4088A824.4030009@rogers.com>

Mark Hahn wrote:

>Mike C. Fletcher wrote:
>
>  
>
>>This isn't really a very clear description of what's going on in
>>Python.  It won't matter to the Prothon users, but don't want any
>>Python users to get confused...
>>    
>>
>
>My inability to understand this stuff is what drove me to do Prothon <grin>.
>All the hidden wrapped this and wrapped that confused me to no end.
>  
>
Fascinating.  Most users never even notice this stuff, let alone getting 
so worked up about it that they start a whole separate language ;) .  
After all, they don't generally even know that metaclasses *exist* and 
just know that it all works exactly as they would expect.  You for 
instance, were describing how the interpreter just knows that a class 
can't be the target of an unbound class method.  Sure, *maybe* it's all 
a hideously complex mess that has people running screaming from Python 
in horror, but from where I sit it is an extremely elegant system that 
most people use without any impedance mismatch at all.

>>    By the way, the modern Python idiom is:
>>
>>        super( klass2, self ).func( )
>>
>>    
>>
>
>You're kidding.  That seems like a big leap backwards in friendliness.  Kind
>of a syntax castor oil.
>  
>
Explicit is better than implicit.  You are attempting to call the 
superclass' method; using:

    klass.func( self )

is actually a far less maintainable and composable idiom.  Here you are 
saying "call this *particular* superclass' method", introducing a 
dependency on the class' current superclass inside the method call.  The 
super() version does introduce a dependency on the *current* class 
inside the call, but that's generally far less likely to mess up as code 
gets revised.

super(), in other words, is a practical solution to avoiding the 
explicit dependencies that crop up when you directly reference a 
super-class.  It solves problems *for large-systems developers* who need 
robust, cooperative, composable functionality (e.g. via mix-in 
classes).  klass.func() might seem prettier and shorter in small 
systems, but it's something that Python's user community has outgrown 
over the years (if you can troll so can I ;) ).

>That's explains why Joe Mason did his proposal for Prothon delegation using
>that same idiom for Prothon.  I thought he was somewhat crazy wanting us to
>type all that each time.
>  
>
It's not the most elegant spelling of the idiom, that's true, but it was 
added without introducing any new magic.  When creating a new language 
you can decide to add new magic to the system solely as a question of 
"what is right".  When evolving a highly successful system, introducing 
new magic is a serious concern:

    super.func()

with super as a key-word would be fine in Prothon, as there's no code 
that depends on using the name super.

    super().func()

would work just as well, with the interpreter figuring out which class 
super() is being called from within but what happens when it's defined 
outside a class and injected later? After all, it's the class where it's 
*defined* that matters, not the one where it's being used.  So Guido 
went for the minimum of magic.  There's no special restriction on a 
function that uses super that the function must be defined in a class, 
there's no rules to figure out whether it affects inner or outer 
classes, there's, in short, no magic required to learn the idiom, it's a 
simple class instantiation like just about everything else.

    Special cases aren't special enough to break the rules.
    Although practicality beats purity.

super is used primarily by large-systems developers (meta-programmers), 
so having the functionality require the introduction of special magic 
and rules for regular users (every time they see an instance of "magic" 
they need to learn what it does) seems unnecessarily "special".  
Implementing super as a simple class means that, should someone be 
interested, they can simply look up the implementation and go "ah, I see 
what it does", but until then they can understand it as a simple call 
that returns a wrapper which gives the superclass of the passed class in 
the passed instance' mro... i.e. it's a black box that follows all the 
regular rules of functions/callables in Python.

Language design is about balancing the minimal set of ideas needed to 
give full generality and power with the need for expressivity and 
practicality.  So far Guido's decisions have been, IMO, a fairly good 
balance.  There are warts, but every language will have warts.  Python 
is a *small* language where, particularly in the later incarnations the 
special cases are going away and the same basic mechanisms are getting 
used in more and more places (e.g. with descriptors).  The reduction of 
special cases is an important design tool.

>What problem caused Python to want to switch to such a general operation?
>What is the usage case that is so important that it is making eveyone wear
>out their keyboards typing that monstrosity?
>  
>
Remember, this is the Python list, we tend to find hugely rhetorical 
arguments somewhat off-putting ;) .  On the other hand, we've 
extinguished more potential flamewars than I can count over the years, 
so it's not like the universe is going to collapse because of a few 
overblown statements :) .  If it did I would have doomed us all ages ago 
:) .

>Oh well, I guess it gives me one more argument to pitch for Prothon...
>  
>
Sure, the magic you sprinkle through your system is part of its flavour 
and character, that character is how languages sell themselves.  Though 
honestly, if someone seriously came up to me and said:

    "Switch to Frobnaz, it has explicit syntax for referencing a
    superclass rather than that archaic explicit invocation stuff in Python"

I'd probably dismiss them out of hand as being so totally out of touch 
with reality as to be not worth the effort of listening (well, not 
really, I *try* not to dismiss people out of hand no matter how crazy 
they are).  Addressing a few of Python's warts is *not* going to make 
the world beat a path to your door.  If you are going to get people to 
make a clean leap to your language (i.e. it's not source-code compatible 
with their current language, and doesn't have some compelling 
feature/niche) you need to design something that's about two times 
better, and you don't design something twice as good by copying and 
tweaking.  You do it by making intelligent design decisions that create 
a coherent language that fits well with people's expectations, that fits 
in their mind without a lot of magic and arbitrary rules to remember 
(PERL, of course being the exception that proves the rule, where the 
attempt is to simply guess everything the user might want to do and 
create an explicit syntax for that ;) ).

Your language *will* have it's own warts, that's a simple reality, 
pointing out that you don't have the same warts *in the same places* as 
another language is not a compelling argument for switching.  For 
instance, I would almost certainly consider the fishHeight$Somewhere() 
syntax to be a wart ;) , so being told that I can save 20 characters or 
so in typing super (which I've only done maybe one or two hundred times 
since it was introduced) by introducing something that my end-developers 
are going to have to be trained on doesn't really make me wet my pants 
in anticipation and joy :) .  After all, I've probably typed almost that 
much in this email alone.

Oops, dang keyboard wore out again ;) ,
Mike

_______________________________________
  Mike C. Fletcher
  Designer, VR Plumber, Coder
  http://members.rogers.com/mcfletch/





From miki.tebeka at zoran.com  Mon Apr 19 08:51:25 2004
From: miki.tebeka at zoran.com (Miki Tebeka)
Date: Mon, 19 Apr 2004 14:51:25 +0200
Subject: imitating user input
In-Reply-To: <ebd4b44c.0404181137.6ec29ba8@posting.google.com>
References: <ebd4b44c.0404181137.6ec29ba8@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <4083CB4D.7050101@zoran.com>

Hello Greg,

> I need to imitate keyboard strokes in an active window inside of
> internet explorer, specifically I need my program to log on to a
> chatroom without me actually sitting in front of my computer. Also,
> once it has logged on to the program I need my program to "read"
> (search for strings, etc.) the text that's entered by other users in
> this "chatroom". The problem I have is actually logging in to the
> chatroom since I have not found a way to duplicate keyboard strokes.
I agree with the other response, however if you're interested in 
generating key strokes anyhow have a look at AutoIt 
(http://www.hiddensoft.com/AutoIt/). You can use either the executable 
by generating scripts or the ActiveX component (or even the dll with 
ctypes).

HTH.
Miki


From elainejackson7355 at home.com  Sat Apr 10 23:47:16 2004
From: elainejackson7355 at home.com (Elaine Jackson)
Date: Sun, 11 Apr 2004 03:47:16 GMT
Subject: Tkinter Button image option
Message-ID: <8d3ec.74988$Ig.46341@pd7tw2no>

When I try to put an image onto a Tkinter button, I get a message that says the
image in question "doesn't exist" (it does, though). One of the references I
looked at said that Tkinter has to be "configured for" the Python Imaging
Library in order for the 'image' option to work. I've got the PIL, but as for
"configuration", I don't know. Maybe I need to reinstall Tcl/Tk? If anyone can
point me to the appropriate resource, I'd be very much obliged.
Peace




From me at privacy.net  Tue Apr  6 07:52:32 2004
From: me at privacy.net (Duncan Booth)
Date: 6 Apr 2004 11:52:32 GMT
Subject: int('2.1') does not work while int(float('2.1')) does
References: <mailman.376.1081213637.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<40722555.66C70D40@alcyone.com>
	<slrnc74a1l.bqf.joe@gate.notcharles.ca>
	<40722E98.253B5FF2@alcyone.com>
	<slrnc74t4i.ccv.joe@gate.notcharles.ca>
Message-ID: <Xns94C381EB722E0duncanrcpcouk@127.0.0.1>

Joe Mason <joe at notcharles.ca> wrote in 
news:slrnc74t4i.ccv.joe at gate.notcharles.ca:

> In article <40722E98.253B5FF2 at alcyone.com>, Erik Max Francis wrote:
>> Joe Mason wrote:
>> 
>>> Why can it make this guess for "int(2.1)", then?  It's got a rule for
>>> converting floats to ints - why not use it here?
>> 
>> Because int(aFloat) means round toward zero.  int(aString) means make an
>> int out of this string.
> 
> So why can't int(string) mean round toward zero?
> 

If you want to round towards zero then you have an easy way to do it:

   int(float(string))

If int(string) was changed to have this behaviour as well, then those of 
who don't want any rounding wouldn't have any way to get the current 
behaviour. Users may be surprised when they enter 2.1 and find the program 
accepted it but didn't use the value they entered; I don't like suprising 
users.

Or in more concise terms:

    Explicit is better than implicit.



From joe at notcharles.ca  Fri Apr 16 00:25:16 2004
From: joe at notcharles.ca (Joe Mason)
Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2004 04:25:16 GMT
Subject: CamelCase versus wide_names (Prothon)
References: <UHxfc.9323$dZ1.3740@fed1read04>
	<1XIfc.246$GN6.122@fe2.columbus.rr.com>
Message-ID: <slrnc7uo0d.ajs.joe@gate.notcharles.ca>

In article <1XIfc.246$GN6.122 at fe2.columbus.rr.com>, Carl Banks wrote:
> but avoid the wide names when they're uber-ugly and unreadable in
> operator-laden code like this:
> 
>     pitch_rate_coefficient = pitch_rate*mean_aerodynamic_chord/total_airspeed

Spaces are a much better way to fix this than camelCase.

  pitch_rate_coefficient = pitch_rate * mean_aerodynamic_chord /
                           total_airspeed

> It would not surprise me if the people who prefer wide names tend to
> be applications-type programmers, whereas those who prefer camel case
> naming tend to be numerical-type programmers.

I'm somewhat surprised numerical-type programmers don't just use 
ubershort variable names.  Using _ for subscript:

  P_r_c = P_r * ADC_m / A_t

(I'm not advocating this style, but seems like direct translations from
math or engineering algorithms would encourage it.)

Joe


From tundra at tundraware.com  Sat Apr 24 20:30:08 2004
From: tundra at tundraware.com (Tim Daneliuk)
Date: 24 Apr 2004 20:30:08 EDT
Subject: command-line args
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1.1082805753.27400.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.1.1082805753.27400.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <23drl1-d592.ln1@eskimo.tundraware.com>

Michael wrote:

> What's the perfered method of passing command-line args throughout a 
> Python program given that globals don't seem to really exist? I thought 
> of writing them out to a python file and then importing them when 
> needed.. but that seems like it'd only work for a single process.. not 
> in instances where more than one user is running the program. There 
> isn't anything like a virtual file space that could be used for this? 
> Anyway to set a global variable?
> 

If I may be so immodest, I have just released this as another way
to set program options:

    http://www.tundraware.com/Software/tconfpy/

Keep your options in a text file with each option in the form:

option = value

Call tconfpy.ParseConfig("myconfigfile") and you'll get back
(among other things) a populated symbol table with each option as
one of the keys...

-- 
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Tim Daneliuk     tundra at tundraware.com
PGP Key:         http://www.tundraware.com/PGP/


From bkelley at wi.mit.edu  Tue Apr 27 10:37:42 2004
From: bkelley at wi.mit.edu (Brian Kelley)
Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2004 10:37:42 -0400
Subject: interfacing to a remote excel app
In-Reply-To: <20040426150428.69010a3c@pistache.sara.nl>
References: <20040426150428.69010a3c@pistache.sara.nl>
Message-ID: <408e7066$0$561$b45e6eb0@senator-bedfellow.mit.edu>

One solution that I have used is a COM/CORBA bridge.  A fairly decent 
one is here:

http://www.octatec.co.uk/CB_sum.htm

But it still requires installation on the windows box.  Your goal is 
pretty easy actually if you can install python on the windows box.

Now for a completely off the wall suggestion.  Have you tried win32all 
and DCOM running under wine (linux win32 api)?  That might supply enough 
of the framework for you to get things running.  I'd be very interested 
if you can get this to work :)

Brian Kelley


From asdf at asdf.asdf  Wed Apr 21 12:36:48 2004
From: asdf at asdf.asdf (Garett)
Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2004 10:36:48 -0600
Subject: saving interpreter source?
Message-ID: <pan.2004.04.21.16.36.47.928286@asdf.asdf>

Hello, I would like to be able to save source typed into the interpreter
to a file. Kind of like marshal, but I would like to have the file contain
the source so I can edit it later. Something like inspect.getsource() but
for source typed into the interpreter, not imported from a module. Is this
possible? Any ideas are greatly appreciated. -Garett


From bokr at oz.net  Thu Apr 29 12:02:49 2004
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 29 Apr 2004 16:02:49 GMT
Subject: String formatting (%)
References: <e567c03a.0404280035.79d0d973@posting.google.com>
	<gcGdnd7hn7_LMxLd4p2dnA@powergate.ca>
Message-ID: <c6r8v9$qhe$0@216.39.172.122>

On Wed, 28 Apr 2004 09:15:02 -0400, Peter Hansen <peter at engcorp.com> wrote:

>Pascal wrote:
>
>> Hello,
>> I've a float number 123456789.01 and, I'de like to format it like this
>> "123 456 789.01".
>> Is this possible with % character?
>
>No, as shown by http://docs.python.org/lib/typesseq-strings.html
>but you could probably use the 'locale' module instead.
>
>I suspect there's also a regular expression that could deal with
>that, but I don't want to know what it is. ;-)
>

If you are willing to use a special name mod (you can choose it), you
can get there with % and a commafy that stuffs spaces instead of commas ;-)

 >>> class Doit(dict):
 ...     def __init__(self, d): dict.__init__(self, d)
 ...     def __getitem__(self, name):
 ...         if name.startswith('cfy_'):
 ...             return commafy(self.get(name[4:],'??'))
 ...         else: return self.get(name,'??')
 ...
 >>> def commafy(val):
 ...     sign, val = '-'[:val<0], str(abs(val))
 ...     val, dec =  (val.split('.')+[''])[:2]
 ...     if dec: dec = '.'+dec
 ...     rest = ''
 ...     while val: val, rest = val[:-3], '%s %s'%(val[-3:], rest)
 ...     return '%s%s%s' %(sign, rest[:-1], dec)
 ...
 >>> x=1234
 >>> 'x: %(x)s cfy_x: %(cfy_x)s' % Doit(vars())
 'x: 1234 cfy_x: 1 234'
 >>> x=12345.678
 >>> 'x: %(x)s cfy_x: %(cfy_x)s' % Doit(vars())
 'x: 12345.678 cfy_x: 12 345.678'
 >>> x = -12345.678
 >>> 'x: %(x)s cfy_x: %(cfy_x)s' % Doit(vars())
 'x: -12345.678 cfy_x: -12 345.678'

And the OP's example:

 >>> x = 123456789.01
 >>> 'x: %(x)s cfy_x: %(cfy_x)s' % Doit(vars())
 'x: 123456789.01 cfy_x: 123 456 789.01'

Regards,
Bengt Richter


From p_s_oberoi at hotmail.com  Thu Apr 15 21:04:04 2004
From: p_s_oberoi at hotmail.com (Paramjit Oberoi)
Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2004 20:04:04 -0500
Subject: CamelCase versus wide_names (Prothon)
References: <UHxfc.9323$dZ1.3740@fed1read04>
Message-ID: <pan.2004.04.16.01.04.02.124611@hotmail.com>

> 1) CamelCase is more elegant, modern, more readable, and more efficient in
> character usage.
> 
> 2) Wide_names is cleaner, more readable, compatible with C, which is the
> standard module language for Python and Prothon.  Wide_names is also the
> Python standard.

wide_names please.  I have tried both and this is what I think:

* wide_names is clearer & easier to read.
    - particularly with one and two letter words
    - ideally I would like to be able to use hyphens
      like-this, but that unfortunately clashes with
      subtraction (this is the only positive thing I
      remember about COBOL: variables with hyphens)

* wide_names is easier to type.
    - camelCase requires the set [a-zA-Z], wide_names
      only requires [a-z_].  *MY* fingers find it easier
      to get used to one shift-key combination rather
      than 26.  I propose that the underscore key be added
      to all keyboards to make things even easier (I should
      remap my windows key...).

* the real problem is the absence of a character for
  indicating non-breaking spaces---that's why we have
  to use all these damn_WorkArounds.

* I am of the opinion that identifiers/filenames/reserved words
  should be case insensitive.  Or alternatively, case should be
  enforced but no two should be allowed to differ only in their
  case.  Pascal got this right...

-param


From nelson at monkey.org  Sat Apr 24 13:24:46 2004
From: nelson at monkey.org (Nelson Minar)
Date: Sat, 24 Apr 2004 17:24:46 GMT
Subject: python for console game development, memory tracking
References: <6soic.40551$c77.17448@newssvr29.news.prodigy.com>
Message-ID: <cpafzat1e7b.fsf@cabernet.nelson.monkey.org>

"Moosebumps" <moosebumps at moosebumps.com> writes:
> When I have time, I am planning to evaluate Python for console game
> development (on Playstation 2, GameCube, and Xbox).  Does anyone have any
> experience with this?

Nope. But in addition to the PS2 and GC Python builds you found:
  http://asbahr.com/python.html

There's Python for the XBox. Xbox Media Center, the unauthorized
software, includes Python embedded in the XBMC builds. You'll need a
modified / hacked XBox to run it. If you want to learn more, I just
wrote an intro on my blog:
  http://www.nelson.monkey.org/~nelson/weblog/tech/xboxPython.html


From nospam at kochandreas.com  Mon Apr 26 15:50:41 2004
From: nospam at kochandreas.com (Andreas Koch)
Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2004 21:50:41 +0200
Subject: Andreas' practical language comparison
In-Reply-To: <ad052e5c.0404251612.1ac969c4@posting.google.com>
References: <c6glig$phm$07$4@news.t-online.com>
	<ad052e5c.0404251612.1ac969c4@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <c6josk$uv8$04$2@news.t-online.com>

Dan Bishop wrote:


thanks, but all cases but "spread sheet" got
solved in this nights mail rush :-)

-- 
                                   Andreas
He screamed: THIS IS SIG!


From claird at lairds.com  Tue Apr 27 15:04:34 2004
From: claird at lairds.com (Cameron Laird)
Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2004 19:04:34 -0000
Subject: Tkinter vs. wxPython?
References: <mailman.53.1083089176.25742.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <108tbm2ltnf7o37@corp.supernews.com>

In article <mailman.53.1083089176.25742.python-list at python.org>,
Batista, Facundo <FBatista at uniFON.com.ar> wrote:
			.
			.
			.
>So, I'm writing a small (but professional) application in Tkinter. And then
>I'll write it in wxPython. Then I'll decide in what I'll wrote a bigger
>application I'm building.
			.
			.
			.
And then you'll write up the experience so the rest of us
can benefit from your experiment?
-- 

Cameron Laird <claird at phaseit.net>
Business:  http://www.Phaseit.net


From wilkSPAM at OUTflibuste.net  Fri Apr 16 06:07:48 2004
From: wilkSPAM at OUTflibuste.net (Wilk)
Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2004 12:07:48 +0200
Subject: CamelCase versus wide_names (Prothon)
References: <UHxfc.9323$dZ1.3740@fed1read04> <87hdvl2dny.fsf@blakie.riol>
	<c5mr6h$jkn$1@atlantis.news.tpi.pl> <87d6692ar8.fsf@blakie.riol>
	<mailman.674.1082103786.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<FCNfc.25592$zf6.94057@news4.e.nsc.no>
Message-ID: <87wu4gjkwb.fsf@blakie.riol>

"Leif B. Kristensen" <junkmail at solumslekt.org> writes:

> Hugh Macdonald rose and spake:
>
>> On a qwerty keyboard, _ is SHIFT+- (to the right of 0)
>  
> In my part of the world, _ is also Shift+-, but it's to the right of
> the . (period). In OO programming in general that's a bit awkward as I
> frequently type a dot where I want an underscore and vice versa. This
> is an error that often can be very hard to spot. So, this may be an
> argument for camelCasing, - which I actually haven't used much since my
> TurboPascal days.

Why not - instead of _ ?

def my-function()

it doesn't need shift on azerty and qwerty isn'it ?

and we already use it in natural langage...

-- 
Wilk - http://flibuste.net


From peter at engcorp.com  Fri Apr  9 10:58:53 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Fri, 09 Apr 2004 10:58:53 -0400
Subject: Customizing the python search path depending on source directory
In-Reply-To: <5cf809e9.0404081306.5d8a81cb@posting.google.com>
References: <5cf809e9.0404061853.41cd3c85@posting.google.com>
	<BbudnT8dYIUS8u7dRVn-vw@powergate.ca>
	<5cf809e9.0404070452.643b7053@posting.google.com>
	<hsWdncv_b86aY-7d4p2dnA@powergate.ca>
	<5cf809e9.0404071734.26f1078a@posting.google.com>
	<4dudnVzbRvwbyOjdRVn-sw@powergate.ca>
	<5cf809e9.0404081306.5d8a81cb@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <4dKdnQ9IXMKzJ-vdRVn-gg@powergate.ca>

Peter Schwalm wrote:
> Peter Hansen <peter at engcorp.com> wrote in message news:<4dudnVzbRvwbyOjdRVn-sw at powergate.ca>...
> 
> I have run the programs with "python <scriptname>.py" now. For my
> purposes the results look identical - the source directory is still
> not accessible during the processing of sitecustomize.py.

Thanks for your persistence, Peter.  I've confirmed what you have
observed here: during site.py processing (including near the end
when "import sitecustomize" is tried) the directory containing the
main script is not included in sys.path.  Immediately after site.py
is imported, sys.path does contain the proper script at the start.

My guess is that recent changes to the import mechanism have broken
this behaviour.

Note that this change would also break sitecustomize processing in
some installations, since it should (I believe) be possible to
have a sitecustomize.py in the directory where the main script
resides, but in Python 2.3.3 it is not imported at all.

If anyone who knows about such things more than we do can confirm
that this should in fact be considered a bug, I will add it to
SourceForge.

-Peter


From irmen at -NOSPAM-REMOVETHIS-xs4all.nl  Fri Apr  2 11:17:28 2004
From: irmen at -NOSPAM-REMOVETHIS-xs4all.nl (Irmen de Jong)
Date: Fri, 02 Apr 2004 18:17:28 +0200
Subject: IPC share queue
In-Reply-To: <mailman.262.1080899212.20120.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.262.1080899212.20120.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <406d9219$0$560$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>

Joe Wong wrote:

> 
> Hi, the buildin Queue() class is good to use among multiple threads in 
> the program. Is there anything similar to this across process boundary?

Check out Pyro's Event Server (http://pyro.sourceforge.net)
It might suit your needs...

--Irmen


From ncw at axis.demon.co.uk  Fri Apr  2 08:30:02 2004
From: ncw at axis.demon.co.uk (Nick Craig-Wood)
Date: 02 Apr 2004 13:30:02 GMT
Subject: Travelling salesman variation in python
References: <slrnc6on9h.spl.erlendga@tva.ifi.uio.no>
	<slrnc6qdum.8l0.ncw@irishsea.home.craig-wood.com>
	<c4jikc$eq4$1@swifty.westend.com>
Message-ID: <slrnc6qo7k.bg8.ncw@irishsea.home.craig-wood.com>

Peter Maas <peter.maas at mplusr.de> wrote:
>  Nick Craig-Wood wrote:
> > I used Simulated Annealing - have a search for the term and you'll see
> > plenty of references.  Its good at finding a (local) minimum.
> 
>  I used to think that Simulated Annealing avoids local traps and
>  is good at finding a global minimum, at least with a certain
>  probability that depends on some temperature function. Am I wrong?

You aren't wrong...  It does avoid local traps - that is what the
simulated annealing bit is for - but it isn't guaranteed to find the
global minimum otherwise you'd have solved an NP-complete problem in
polynomial time...

In practice it works extrememly well!

-- 
Nick Craig-Wood
ncw at axis.demon.co.uk


From jcm at FreeBSD-uk.eu.org  Fri Apr 23 15:39:51 2004
From: jcm at FreeBSD-uk.eu.org (Jonathon McKitrick)
Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2004 20:39:51 +0100
Subject: Best way to add attributes to shelved objects?
Message-ID: <20040423193951.GC27351@dogma.freebsd-uk.eu.org>


I'm working on an app that persists a few classes with shelve.  But if I
load older saved classes, I get an exception in code that uses the new
attributes, of course.

What is the best way to load these older classes, check for the new
attributes, and add them so they will work with the new code?

jm
-- 
My other computer is your Windows box.



From fumanchu at amor.org  Fri Apr 23 11:06:16 2004
From: fumanchu at amor.org (Robert Brewer)
Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2004 08:06:16 -0700
Subject: Why we will use obj$func() often
Message-ID: <DE1CF2B4FEC4A342BF62B6B2B334601E56204D@opus.amorhq.net>

Mike C. Fletcher wrote:
> Mark Hahn wrote:
> ...
> >My biggest problem right now is stupid aesthetics.  I have 
> to decide where
> >to place Prothon on the continuum between lisp and perl.  
> >
> *poke* surely you see the humour that a Python user will derive from 
> that statement :) ;) .
> 
> >When I crossed the
> >line and added $ for self people screamed bloody murder that 
> it looked like
> >Perl.  Before when I had a period for self they thought it 
> looked great.  I
> >can't believe how much they care about something so silly.
> >  
> >
> Comparatively, instance-attribute access is used three or 
> four times a 
> minute when coding, while super is used once or twice a month for 
> non-framework-programmers, so yes, I can see someone screaming bloody 
> murder if they suddenly are looking at a screen full of $This 
> and $that 
> variables.  $ is basically a character as far as glyphs go, it's a 
> full-height glyph with ascenders and descenders, is very similar to a 
> capital S, and generally makes reading code much harder as it 
> obscures 
> word-shape; .this or even self.this is much easier to read 
> because you 
> can pick out the words using your learned vocabulary of word-shapes.
> 
>     Readability counts
> 
> BTW, I'm a professional designer, so "stupid aesthetics" are 
> what I care 
> about whenever I get a chance ;) .
> 
> ...
> 
> That's why I never post to newsgroups,

Well, I for one have greatly enjoyed your contribution here. Most comp.
newsgroups could use a professional designer once in a while. ;)


Robert Brewer
MIS (moving slowly to requirements analyst and designer :)
Amor Ministries
fumanchu at amor.org



From fumanchu at amor.org  Mon Apr 12 00:27:41 2004
From: fumanchu at amor.org (Robert Brewer)
Date: Sun, 11 Apr 2004 21:27:41 -0700
Subject: Is there a boolean(somestring) equivalent of
	int(somestring).bool('false') -> True
Message-ID: <DE1CF2B4FEC4A342BF62B6B2B334601E561FE5@opus.amorhq.net>

Vineet Jain wrote:
> How can anyone argue that
> 
> bool('false') = True
> 
> is more natural (and what you would expect) than
> 
> bool('false') = False

In exactly the same way that I expect:

bool("Ce n'est pas une bool") = True


FuManChu



From ajsiegel at optonline.com  Mon Apr 26 20:38:14 2004
From: ajsiegel at optonline.com (Arthur)
Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2004 00:38:14 GMT
Subject: Problem with PY2EXE and VPython
References: <sXgjc.43843$_L6.2802892@attbi_s53>
Message-ID: <7mar8057sjdqh5h54ojb4et2bd3p10teug@4ax.com>

On Mon, 26 Apr 2004 23:29:28 GMT, "bap" <no_spam at terastat.com> wrote:

>When I try to run a program on a clean machine using the VPython extensions
>after compiling with PY2EXE I get the following error message: "The
>procedure entry point IsWow64Process could not be located in the dynamic
>link library KERNEL32.dll" . The compiled version runs fine on the original
>machine (win NT OS) but gives this error message on a machine without
>VPython installed (Win 2K OS). Is this anything that can be fixed with
>appropriate parameters in PY2EXE or does it require that VPython be tweaked?
>Any help appriciated.

At:

http://www.dstoys.com/content/education/index_html/Visual%20Arts/Interactive

I have the VPython Tower of Hanoi demo as a Windows executable.

It is an older version of VPython and of Python.

I would be curious to know if there are problems running this on your
machine without VPython installed.

If it runs OK, we can see from there what I might have done
differently from you in building the executable.

Art


From irmen at -nospam-remove-this-xs4all.nl  Tue Apr 13 14:17:49 2004
From: irmen at -nospam-remove-this-xs4all.nl (Irmen de Jong)
Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2004 20:17:49 +0200
Subject: interpreter limits
In-Reply-To: <m3u0zn93sg.fsf@union.tjtech.com>
References: <m3zn9f95xm.fsf@union.tjtech.com>
	<407c23bf$0$570$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>
	<m3u0zn93sg.fsf@union.tjtech.com>
Message-ID: <407c2ecc$0$574$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>

Joseph T. Bore wrote:

> Any idea if it's possible?  should I write a PEP?

Can't you do something smart with signals, threads, alarm() and kill() ?
Like running the code in a worker thread, where the main thread
keeps track of how long it has been running and if not finished
within a certain time, kill() it.
Or use alarm() to get signaled after some time, then kill it in
the signal handler.

--Irmen


From rmanx at gmx.de  Thu Apr  1 07:00:19 2004
From: rmanx at gmx.de (Robert)
Date: Thu, 1 Apr 2004 14:00:19 +0200
Subject: Don't understand wxPython event handling
Message-ID: <c4h08g$fok$1@news.mch.sbs.de>

Hello list,

could somebody point me to a good reference about wxPython event handling?
I have seen many examples but which one is the best. Waht are the advantages
and disadvantages?

Can you also have a short look at the example below and give me some
comments, please?

Example:
I have implemented (or copied from somewhere) one event in two flavours.
Both work, but which one is the best? Or does anybody have a better
implementation.

EVT_NEXT_PAGE_ID = wxNewId()

def EVT_NEXT_PAGE( win, func ):
    """Your documentation here"""
    win.Connect( -1, -1, EVT_NEXT_PAGE_ID, func )

class showNextPageEvent(wxPyEvent):
    def __init__(self, windowID):
        wxPyEvent.__init__(self)
        self.SetEventType(EVT_NEXT_PAGE_ID)


or

EVT_NEXT_PAGE_TYPE = wxNewEventType()

def EVT_NEXT_PAGE( window, function ):
    """Your documentation here"""
    window.Connect( -1, -1, EVT_NEXT_PAGE_TYPE, function )

class showNextPageEvent(wxPyCommandEvent):
    eventType = EVT_NEXT_PAGE_TYPE
    def __init__(self, windowID):
        wxPyCommandEvent.__init__(self, self.eventType, windowID)
    def Clone( self ):
        self.__class__( self.GetId() )


Thank you

Robert




From gabriel.cooper at mediapulse.com  Thu Apr 15 09:15:20 2004
From: gabriel.cooper at mediapulse.com (Gabriel Cooper)
Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2004 09:15:20 -0400
Subject: [Newbie Q on String & List Manipulation]
In-Reply-To: <567a7c35.0404150247.7809bef5@posting.google.com>
References: <567a7c35.0404150247.7809bef5@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <407E8AE8.1010709@mediapulse.com>



Matthew wrote:

>Hello All,
>
>    today is the first day i try to programming in Python,
>    my assignment is, write a silly script that probably
>    will run a few times a day to check if the Gmail services
>    is ready or not. ;)
>
>    however, i encountered some problem when playing with the
>    list and string.
>
>[...]
>
>        for item in thecookies:
>            mycookies += item
>[...]
>  
>
Try:

mycookies = string.join(thecookies, "")



From jcarlson at uci.edu  Mon Apr 19 11:24:59 2004
From: jcarlson at uci.edu (Josiah Carlson)
Date: Mon, 19 Apr 2004 08:24:59 -0700
Subject: how to calculate correctly the cluster size
In-Reply-To: <omv680lm095eqagvpi4g1s0i5tn7a3r5sp@4ax.com>
References: <f6554b84.0404130415.547f2a06@posting.google.com>
	<c5vr8o$jql$1@news.service.uci.edu>
	<omv680lm095eqagvpi4g1s0i5tn7a3r5sp@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <c60r71$ivi$1@news.service.uci.edu>

Dennis Lee Bieber wrote:
> On Sun, 18 Apr 2004 23:19:46 -0700, Josiah Carlson <jcarlson at uci.edu>
> declaimed the following in comp.lang.python:
> 
> 
>>in order to fix that, thank god for partitionmagic).  I don't think you 
>>would be out of line to assume 4k clusters on installations using FAT32 
>>or NTFS.
>>
> 
> 	Heh... Checking just two of my 10 partitions (spread over two
> internal drives, and an external FireWire) I'm running 8K clusters, and
> likely much larger on the FireWire (which has four 40GB partitions!).
> 
> 	W98se/FAT32

Can you defrag your disks?  If so, then perhaps my not being able to 
find a software to defragment disks was a 'feature' of using Windows 
2000, NTFS and non-4k clusters.

I'm curious; did you set the cluster size yourself, or were those 
automatic sizes generated by 98SE?

  - Josiah


From peter at engcorp.com  Sat Apr 17 10:47:25 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Sat, 17 Apr 2004 10:47:25 -0400
Subject: AOP use cases
In-Reply-To: <slrnc82ej1.gji.joe@gate.notcharles.ca>
References: <84fc4588.0404140106.3fa0c55@posting.google.com>
	<slrnc7q1ss.1aa.alf@largo.fayauffre.org>
	<cb035744.0404141130.170f51c4@posting.google.com>
	<slrnc7sgat.vp.alf@largo.fayauffre.org>
	<cb035744.0404160442.2f0b1661@posting.google.com>
	<0pydnSB4WYuieuLdRVn-hQ@powergate.ca>
	<35qdnT4kNsX1kB3dRVn-gg@powergate.ca>
	<slrnc81i28.fm2.joe@gate.notcharles.ca>
	<AZ-dnUNqC9-oUh3dRVn-jw@powergate.ca>
	<slrnc82ej1.gji.joe@gate.notcharles.ca>
Message-ID: <rLudnRivPvvj3hzdRVn-ig@powergate.ca>

Joe Mason wrote:

> In article <AZ-dnUNqC9-oUh3dRVn-jw at powergate.ca>, Peter Hansen wrote:
>>Sorry, but that doesn't fly.  That's a clearly separate function
>>that should have a simple, single call somewhere in the application.
> 
> Not at all.  You'll want to log when calls start and end, when features
> are turned on and off, when specific services (voice mail, call
> forwarding) are accessed.  If your app is for a call center, you want to
> log when people go on and off hold and when they enter specific service
> queues.  

Okay, even given that we're talking about something hypothetical
(I'm _quite_ interested in evidence that AOP for such things is
more than just someone's cool theory), why wouldn't I just do this
as a series of calls in the appropriate places?  If I'm going to
specify which methods of which classes/objects are getting this
"logging" functionality, it seems to me that I can do that as
easily (i.e. one line of code) by just making it explicit in
the code that does the call.

And if I had to do this in such a variety of "arbitrary" places
that it would appear to be a maintenance issue or something, I
would turn to data-driven programming and just have the appropriate
logging calls inserted using wrappers around the methods of
interest as the application configures itself.

So where does AOP fit in?  I realize I'm basically asking the
same question some others have, as in what good does AOP provide
if it's so easy to do this using traditional techniques.  Or is
anyone arguing that what I'm actually doing is AOP even though
I don't call it that?  (In which case AOP should be relegated to
being a simple Software Pattern I guess.)

I think one problem I have with the logging example, even
modified from the contrived "log calls to all methods" case,
is that I've done such things, without the slightest feeling that
what I was doing was complicated or awkward or needed "a better way".
So what does AOP buy for such things?

(But I'm _really_ much more interested in real-world examples,
since we can discuss the theory of AOP all you like and still
not convince me or anyone that it's worth any change in our
way of doing things.  What's a *compelling* example?)

-Peter


From jcarlson at uci.edu  Mon Apr 19 02:19:46 2004
From: jcarlson at uci.edu (Josiah Carlson)
Date: Sun, 18 Apr 2004 23:19:46 -0700
Subject: how to calculate correctly the cluster size
In-Reply-To: <f6554b84.0404130415.547f2a06@posting.google.com>
References: <f6554b84.0404130415.547f2a06@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <c5vr8o$jql$1@news.service.uci.edu>

> I am trying to find a way to calculate the cluster size for a drive. I
> looked at the GetDiskFreeSpaceEx function in Win32 and it turned out
> that it didn't provide the information I was looking for.
> Using the old GetDiskFreeSpace function I could just multiply the
> Bytes per
> Sector by the Sector per Cluster and get the cluster size.  I heard
> that the old GetDiskFreeSpace function may report not proper values
> for volume sizes that are greater than 2 gigabytes. The new version of
> that function (GetDiskFreeSpaceEx) returns the final disk free size
> without the ability to calculate the cluster size - and the old
> version does not work correctly with FAT 32... what can I do? Is there
> another function I can use?

Generally, I believe sectors are consistantly 512 bytes, and depending 
on the format of your drive, cluster size can vary.  Both NTFS and FAT32 
generally run with 4k clusters, and at least until mid-2002, there 
didn't exist a commercial defragmenter that could handle non-4k clusters 
in Windows (I had a drive with 16k clusters that I needed to repartition 
in order to fix that, thank god for partitionmagic).  I don't think you 
would be out of line to assume 4k clusters on installations using FAT32 
or NTFS.

In terms of volume sizes > 2 gigs, that sounds like the old cluster size 
and addressing limit for FAT 16, but considering how rare FAT 16 is 
nowadays (perhaps pre Win95 OSR2 installations still use it), I wouldn't 
worry too much (unless you are specifically writing for old operating 
systems).

  - Josiah


From Kyler at news.Lairds.org  Thu Apr  1 10:08:06 2004
From: Kyler at news.Lairds.org (Kyler Laird)
Date: Thu, 01 Apr 2004 15:08:06 GMT
Subject: Pyrex gets a perfect score.
Message-ID: <lhntj1-u62.ln1@snout.lairds.org>

I mentioned earlier that I started using Pyrex because I'm taking a
computer vision course that requires all assignments to be submitted
as C(++).  While I could write C it would hurt me to do so and
certainly distract me from the computer vision aspects.  I like
using Python these days and Pyrex looked like a good solution.

(BTW, on the last assignment I saw several messages from someone
having difficulty with segfaults due to memory allocation problems.
Grrr...  Time spent messing with pointers is not advancing one's
understanding of computer vision.)

Here's one reaction I got on the subject:
>  1. How is your teacher going to react when you hand in obfuscated-ish
>  C code that depends on the whole Python interpreter _and_ PIL?

The bottom line is that I got a perfect score on all (seven) of my
homework assignments.  At first, I spent way too much time on them -
figuring out how to use Pyrex and also just having fun exploring
possibilities that I wouldn't have considered if I'd used C.  Later,
however, I found that I could start on the assignment the night
before it's due and complete it in time.  In terms of time, it was
still a good investment over this short period.

Most important, I had fun doing these assignments and I learned a
lot from them.  I am confident that I would not have accomplished
as much with C (from scratch).

Our project is going to require fast decoding of an image.  My
homework solutions have been agonizingly slow.  There's a lot of
room for optimizations and I'm looking forward to using Pyrex to
prototype in Python and then replace pieces with C as needed.

I can certainly see how Pyrex could serve nicely beyond academic
settings.  Is it a way to sneak Python into projects that are
"strictly C"?  Sure, it can work.  Can it free the developer to
quickly experiment with new concepts without spending excessive
effort on programming?  Definitely.  Is speed and ease of
development sometimes more important than execution speed.  Yup.
Can Pyrex be used effectively as a path to a native C solution?
We'll see, but I'm confident that it can.

Thank you, Pyrex!

--kyler


From kfast at poczta.onet.pl  Wed Apr 28 05:50:45 2004
From: kfast at poczta.onet.pl (Jakub Fast)
Date: Wed, 28 Apr 2004 11:50:45 +0200
Subject: Embedding OCaml within Python
In-Reply-To: <37aad18.0404280019.500e2841@posting.google.com>
References: <37aad18.0404280019.500e2841@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <408F7E75.7050907@poczta.onet.pl>

Max Powers wrote:
> The situation is this; I've got a large legacy program that is written
> in ocaml, within which there's a parser. I'd like to be able to call
> that parser from my python program 

Doesn't the O'Caml compiler translate the code into C first?

If you got it to generate C code for your your library, chances are you 
could dig into it and wrap whatever you got there with SWIG or BPL, and 
then compile both the wrapper and the lib in C.

Then,

 > Python -> C extension -> OCaml -> callback to C -> callback to Python

becomes

Python -> C extension (O'Caml translation + callback to Python)


Of course, it might be the case that the O'Caml C code is too 
complicated or too far removed from the O'Caml object interface...

hth

kuba



From bdash at gmx.net  Wed Apr 14 23:44:19 2004
From: bdash at gmx.net (Mark Rowe)
Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2004 15:44:19 +1200
Subject: 7bit to 8bit
In-Reply-To: <c5ku5l$kgd$1@eol.dd.chalmers.se>
References: <c5ku5l$kgd$1@eol.dd.chalmers.se>
Message-ID: <2CF1A5CA-8E8F-11D8-BBCE-000A95D05654@gmx.net>


On 15/04/2004, at 15:05, Daniel Roth wrote:

> how do one easy convert a 8bit-text, which by python seems to be in 
> 7bit, to 8bit? I want to convert '=F6' to '?', '=E4' to '?' and so on.
> of course without doing a replace for all those characters.

Strings containing sequences like '=F6' appear to have be latin-1 
strings that have been encoding using the "quoted printable" encoding.  
The following snippet shows one method of decoding the data:

 >>> print "=F6=E4".decode('quopri').decode('latin-1')
??

Alternatively, you should look into the quopri module and it's 
decodestring function.

Hope this helps,

Mark Rowe
http://bdash.bluewire.net.nz
  



From mogmios at mlug.missouri.edu  Fri Apr 23 23:51:46 2004
From: mogmios at mlug.missouri.edu (Michael)
Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2004 20:51:46 -0700
Subject: command-line args
Message-ID: <4089E452.3080102@mlug.missouri.edu>

What's the perfered method of passing command-line args throughout a 
Python program given that globals don't seem to really exist? I thought 
of writing them out to a python file and then importing them when 
needed.. but that seems like it'd only work for a single process.. not 
in instances where more than one user is running the program. There 
isn't anything like a virtual file space that could be used for this? 
Anyway to set a global variable?



From lutz at rmi.net  Mon Apr 26 11:49:46 2004
From: lutz at rmi.net (Mark Lutz)
Date: 26 Apr 2004 08:49:46 -0700
Subject: Trouble Understanding O'Reilly Example
References: <108p21f7asq1cc8@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <ec0babcc.0404260749.47f9b88c@posting.google.com>

Congratulations -- you've found what is probably 
the worst typo in the first printing of the 2nd
Edition of this book.  As others have pointed 
out, it should say arg < res, not arg < args.

For future reference, O'Reilly maintains the full
list of errata for the book, including this one,
here:

http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/lpython2/errata/

Typos happen, of course, and this edition has a 
relatively low number of them.  But this one is 
made all the more maddening by the fact that I've
coded this example correctly at least one hundred
times during classes.  Despite this, testing, and 
a formal technical review process, typos always 
manage to sneak in.  Alas, writing computer books
is no place for a perfectionist to be.

--Mark Lutz  (http://www.rmi.net/~lutz)


slyraymond <sly_raymond at charter.net> wrote in message news:<108p21f7asq1cc8 at corp.supernews.com>...
> On page 214 of _Learning Python_, the following function is described as one
> that will return the smallest item in a group of arguments:
> 
> def min1(*args):
>   res = args[0]
>   for arg in args[1:]:
>     if arg < args:
>       res = arg
>   return res
> 
> However, when the function called with...
> 
> print min1(3,4,1,2)
> 
> ...it returns:
> 
> 2
> 
> Why?


From db3l at fitlinxx.com  Wed Apr  7 11:38:47 2004
From: db3l at fitlinxx.com (David Bolen)
Date: 07 Apr 2004 11:38:47 -0400
Subject: Capturing stdout incrementally
References: <dHFbc.17935$656.789@newssvr27.news.prodigy.com>
	<c4nci9$pp3$1@news.service.uci.edu> <uwu4szuga.fsf@fitlinxx.com>
	<c50138$op7$1@news.service.uci.edu>
Message-ID: <u3c7f94s8.fsf@fitlinxx.com>

Josiah Carlson <jcarlson at uci.edu> writes:

> Your experience in unix has colored your impression of popen on
> Windows. The trick with Windows is that pipes going to/from apps are
> not real file handles, nor do they support select calls (Windows
> select comes from Windows' underlying socket library).  If they did,
> then the Python 2.4 module Popen5 would not be required.

Pipes under Windows (at least for the built-in os.popen* calls) are
true OS file handles (in terms of Windows OS system handles), created
via a CreatePipe call which are connected to a child process created
with CreateProcess.  You are correct that you can't select on them,
but that's not because they aren't real file handles, but because
Winsock under Windows is the odd man out.  Sockets in Winsock aren't
equivalent to other native OS handles (they aren't the "real" file
handles), and select was only written to work with sockets.  That's
also why sockets can't directly play in all of the other Windows
synchronization mechanisms (such as WaitFor[Multiple]Object[s]) but
you have to tie a socket to a different OS handle first, and then use
that handle in the sychronization call.

> Popen5 is supposed to allow the combination of os.popen and os.system
> on all platforms.  You get pollable pipes and the signal that the
> program ended with.  As for how they did it on Windows, I believe they
> are using pywin32 or ctypes.

I'm certainly all for additional portability for child process
management - although the internal os.popen* calls under Windows
already give you the exit code of the child process (which does get
some unique values when the process terminates abruptly), just without
any simulated signal bits.

But implementing popen5 under Windows will still run into the same
problem (that of select simply not working for other OS system handles
other than sockets), so I agree that will be a challenge, since
presumably they'll want to return a handle that looks like a Python
file and thus does have to have the underlying OS handle for basic I/O
to work.

Last I saw about the module was in January with a PEP announcement on
python-dev, but the PEP still indicates no Windows support (the
example was built on top of the popen2 module), and the python-dev
discussion led to proposing a start with a pure Python module.  I
can't find any code in the current CVS tree related to popen5, so I'm
not sure of the status.

Of course, none of this changes the original question in this thread
in that if the child process is going to select output buffering based
on the "tty" or "console" aspect of the pipe to which its output is
connected, you can't override that from the calling program, but have
to deal with the program being executed (or more properly fake it out
so that the controlling pipe appears more tty/console like).  I doubt
any popen* changes will affect that.

-- David



From tjreedy at udel.edu  Tue Apr 20 20:29:07 2004
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 20:29:07 -0400
Subject: Generator inside a class prevent __del__ ??
References: <4085BA96.651D2E4A@free.fr>
Message-ID: <c64f8d$616$1@sea.gmane.org>


"Emmanuel" <eastier at free.fr> wrote in message
news:4085BA96.651D2E4A at free.fr...
> I run across this problem, and couldn't find any solution (python 2.2.2)
...
> Here, everything is normal...
> But creating a generator :

You both defined generator function and called it to create generator
iterator.

>
> Code :
> ===========
>
> >>> class toto:
>             def __init__(self):
>                 print "init"
>                 self.Coroutine = self.Gen()

This creates a reference loop.  Delete this (and correct typo below) and
'problem' will disappear.

>             def __del__(self):
>                 print "del"
>             def Gen(self):

If you do not really use self in the resulting iterator, define this
outside of the class without self as a parameter, and problem will
disappear.

>                 yield 1
>
> >>> a = toto()

did you mean 'c = toto()'?

> init
> >>> c = []
>                 <--- Nothing there !!!
> ==============
>
> I can't understand why the destructor is not called when a generator is
> created, and what I should do to have a "correct" behavior.

Either do not create reference loop or break it with del c.Coroutine.

Terry J. Reedy







From grante at visi.com  Wed Apr 28 10:13:30 2004
From: grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards)
Date: 28 Apr 2004 14:13:30 GMT
Subject: Path ... where is my application's home dir?
References: <mailman.76.1083159752.25742.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <408fbc0a$0$17256$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>

On 2004-04-28, Marco Aschwanden <PPNTWIMBXFFC at spammotel.com> wrote:

> I want to store a file in the application directory.

1) Don't

2) Why?

> What is the easiest way to figure out, where my application is situated?

3) Under Unix in general there is no reliable, portable way to
   do that.

> sys.argv[0] does not work for my purposes... do you have any
> other ideas.

Yes.

It sounds like you're trying to do a bad thing in the Unix
world.  Firstly, some smart admins have entire filesystems
mounted read-only.  Your application may live in one of those.

Secondly, global configuration files go in /etc.  Per-user
configuration files go in the user's home directory in
.<appname>-conf .<appname>rc or under the .<appname>/
directory.  If you want them preserved across reboots, then
caches of stuff go in /var/cache/<appname>.  Files that don't
need to survive a reboot go in /tmp.

What are you trying to do?

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow!  After THIS, let's go
                                  at               to PHILADELPHIA and have
                               visi.com            TRIPLETS!!


From peter at engcorp.com  Sun Apr 11 22:17:57 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Sun, 11 Apr 2004 22:17:57 -0400
Subject: OT: history of discussion forums
In-Reply-To: <1081728319.76650.2@doris.uk.clara.net>
References: <mailman.407.1081323836.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<4079215A.3010606@cs.com> <sfOdndnwedXPXOTdRVn-sw@powergate.ca>
	<1081728319.76650.2@doris.uk.clara.net>
Message-ID: <LKWdnSu0Fq7JYeTdRVn-ug@powergate.ca>

Garry Knight wrote:

> In message <sfOdndnwedXPXOTdRVn-sw at powergate.ca>, Peter Hansen wrote:
> 
> 
>>Robert M. Emmons wrote:
>>
>>>USENET or Network News is the second oldest discussion forum
>>>group around. 
>>
>>What, in your opinion, was the first?
> 
> 
> You snipped it from his post. He said:
> 
> 
>>Incidently, the first 
>>discussion forum network was "mailing lists".

Oops, <blush>.  :-)


From lbates at swamisoft.com  Sat Apr 17 12:07:11 2004
From: lbates at swamisoft.com (Larry Bates)
Date: Sat, 17 Apr 2004 11:07:11 -0500
Subject: text storage: shelve vs anydbm vs ?
References: <1081kgpq4qrsa79@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <zNGdnajTIJGtyxzdRVn-hw@comcast.com>

If MySQL is available on your website it is both
fast and stable.  It is also very easy to call
from Python.  Lots of ISPs also have admin
interfaces that make it easy to make ad-hoc
changes via web interface.  Normally it is free.
If you are self hosted, the same is true.

Larry Bates
Syscon, Inc.

"Anton Sherwood" <news at ogre.nu> wrote in message
news:1081kgpq4qrsa79 at corp.supernews.com...
> Rather newbie question here.
>
> My current project will build a database of solutions to a topology
> problem, which I'll eventually put (readonly) on my website.  The
> entries are text of varying length.  The keys are likewise of varying
> length.
>
> Is anydbm the way to go?  Is shelve anything more than a wrapper for it?
> Should I be looking at something else?
>
> -- 
> Anton Sherwood (prepend "1" to address)
> http://www.ogre.nu/




From peter at engcorp.com  Fri Apr 23 16:58:45 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2004 16:58:45 -0400
Subject: Why we will use obj$func() often
In-Reply-To: <sXcic.28630$dZ1.20194@fed1read04>
References: <d2Uhc.22272$dZ1.1600@fed1read04><84Uhc.22278$dZ1.5087@fed1read04>	<mailman.927.1082665370.20120.python-list@python.org><8AWhc.23114$dZ1.11070@fed1read04>	<mailman.939.1082697809.20120.python-list@python.org><no4ic.26268$dZ1.11413@fed1read04>
	<mailman.948.1082710758.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<sXcic.28630$dZ1.20194@fed1read04>
Message-ID: <gfednZsaJf0YHhTd4p2dnA@powergate.ca>

Mark Hahn wrote:

> "Mike C. Fletcher" <mcfletch at rogers.com> wrote ...
> 
> 
>>$ is basically a character as far as glyphs go, it's a
>>full-height glyph with ascenders and descenders, is very similar to a
>>capital S, and generally makes reading code much harder as it obscures
>>word-shape; .this or even self.this is much easier to read because you
>>can pick out the words using your learned vocabulary of word-shapes.
> 
> 
> Well I have a problem now.  I gave people on my mailing list a choice
> between $var, `var, ~var,  and ^var.  The current tally is four votes for
> $var and none for any of the others.  According to your criteria, $var is
> the worst and ~var should be the best.  Am I correct?

If I recall correctly, ObjectRexx uses ~ the way Python uses . (dot).
I wasn't really partial to it, but it didn't really stand in the way
of writing or reading the code.

I have to go with Mike on the problem with $ however...


From fraser at fake_email.cx  Fri Apr  9 13:48:58 2004
From: fraser at fake_email.cx (Fraser Hanson)
Date: Fri, 09 Apr 2004 17:48:58 GMT
Subject: Function args
In-Reply-To: <sdqdc.37060$zm5.15866@nntpserver.swip.net>
References: <sdqdc.37060$zm5.15866@nntpserver.swip.net>
Message-ID: <emBdc.25746$J56.20346@edtnps89>

Jean-Michel Caricand wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> I'm new in Python. I have a problem with function args. I want to pass 
> args by reference because the function must modify this arg. How I do 
> that in Python.
> 
> I didn't found documentation !

The short answer is, you can modify mutable types(lists and 
dictionaries) by passing them to a function.  You cannot modify 
immutable types (strings, numbers, tuples) in this way.  If you want to 
modify a variable pointing to an immutable type, then you must have your 
function return the modified value or values, and assign your value to 
the result of your function.  Like this:

	def func(s):
		return s + " shop"

	a = "cheese"
	a = func(a)
	print a                         # prints "cheese shop"

Python allows you to return multiple variables from a function call, so 
you can modify any number of variables with this method.  (Technically, 
when you use a statement like "return a,b,c" you are not returning three 
variables, you are returning one tuple.  Still it looks and acts like 
three variables, it's just good to be aware of these things.)

	def func(x,y,z):
		x = x + 5
		y = y + 10
		z = z + 15
		return x, y, z

	a, b, c = 1, 2, 3
	a, b, c = func(a,b,c)
	print a, b, c               # prints "6, 12, 18"


The reason for this is as follows.

All variables in Python are just names that point to the "real" object, 
sort of like C pointers.  When you pass an immutable type argument to a 
function, the function receives a new variable that happens to be 
pointing to the same object.  When you assign to that variable, you are 
making it point to a different object.  Thus when your function exits, 
your old variable in the original scope still points to the same object 
it did before the function call.  By assigning the original variable to 
something returned by your function, your are achieving the intended 
effect in a more explicit way.

Some of this is discussed in the documentation here:

	Mutable and immutable types:
	http://www.python.org/doc/2.3.3/ref/objects.html

	What happens during assignment:
	http://www.python.org/doc/2.3.3/ref/assignment.html

--Fraser Hanson

ps. Are you aware that your message was posted 12 times in a row?


From anton at vredegoor.doge.nl  Thu Apr 15 04:36:55 2004
From: anton at vredegoor.doge.nl (Anton Vredegoor)
Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2004 10:36:55 +0200
Subject: Method for providing a trail period on a program
References: <L8idnY07QbRfNPHdRVn-hw@comcast.com>
	<slrnc6pcmh.1f2.bignose-hates-spam@rose.localdomain.fake>
	<407CF4F0.4020604@yahoo.com.au>
	<avOdnevBfd4kPODdRVn-gg@comcast.com>
Message-ID: <407e49b9$0$148$3a628fcd@reader2.nntp.hccnet.nl>

"Larry Bates" <lbates at swamisoft.com> wrote:

>I find the idea that you can give the software
>away and charge for support an interesting one.
>If you write REALLY good software with REALLY
>good documentation that provides REALLY good
>tracing and debugging support (so users can
>track down their own problems), what are you
>going to charge for?

Maybe give away the previous version of the software but ask some
money if they want to upgrade to the next version? 

If there is yet another new version start giving away the previous
version for free. This way customers are motivated to stimulate
software development processes by their desire to own the latest
upgrade. 

The distinction between support and development of the code is made a
bit less strict and you can use that to provide specialized versions
of the code to those who are willing to pay some more. The
understanding should be that everything they pay for could possibly
end up in the free version after some time. 

I don't know if it would be wise to negotiate about how much time it
would take before other customers will profit from the new features
for free with some paying customer. Maybe some credit messages in the
documentation like "this feature was added thanks to financial support
by customer x" would be a way to appease feelings of injustice.

Anton



From loic at fejoz.net  Mon Apr  5 03:13:19 2004
From: loic at fejoz.net (Yermat)
Date: Mon, 05 Apr 2004 09:13:19 +0200
Subject: write data file
In-Reply-To: <337e6cd5.0404042146.6e39153c@posting.google.com>
References: <337e6cd5.0404042146.6e39153c@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <c4r0v6$f65$1@arcturus.ciril.fr>

SunX wrote:
> Question from a newbie.  How do you write out a data file of floating
> point numbers? file.write only takes strings.
> Many thanks.

Have a look at struct http://www.python.org/doc/2.3.3/lib/module-struct.html


Yermat



From theller at python.net  Thu Apr 29 10:29:55 2004
From: theller at python.net (Thomas Heller)
Date: Thu, 29 Apr 2004 16:29:55 +0200
Subject: debugging code
References: <3064b51d.0404271139.6ec7057@posting.google.com>
	<408ee541$0$46510$39cecf19@news.twtelecom.net>
	<3064b51d.0404280658.ccf1894@posting.google.com>
	<408fe602$0$3708$39cecf19@news.twtelecom.net>
	<3064b51d.0404290606.1fe669aa@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <k6zy7t7g.fsf@python.net>

beliavsky at aol.com writes:

> Rick Ratzel <rick.ratzel at magma-da.com> wrote in message news:<408fe602$0$3708$39cecf19 at news.twtelecom.net>...
>> beliavsky at aol.com wrote:
>> > 
>> > <SNIP>
>> > 
>> > Thanks -- I will take your suggestion. Where are the Python command
>> > line options like -O and -OO documented? Typing 'python -h' just gives
>> > me
>> > 
>> > -O     : optimize generated bytecode (a tad; also PYTHONOPTIMIZE=x)
>> > -OO    : remove doc-strings in addition to the -O optimizations
>> 
>>     Thats strange.  Here they are for Python 2.3.3 as built on my system 
>> (should be the same for you):
>
> <SNIP>
>
> I get the same output from 'python -h'. What I meant to say is that I
> am looking for more detailed documentation of the Python interpreter
> options. I looked briefly on python.org and did not find it.

http://www.python.org/doc/current/ref/assert.html#l2h-460

Thomas




From db3l at fitlinxx.com  Wed Apr  7 12:20:37 2004
From: db3l at fitlinxx.com (David Bolen)
Date: 07 Apr 2004 12:20:37 -0400
Subject: painful debugging: techniques?
References: <WqKcc.5327$BF2.680616@news20.bellglobal.com>
Message-ID: <uy8p77oa2.fsf@fitlinxx.com>

"Humpty Dumpty" <oliver.schoenborn at utoronto.ca> writes:

> I'm wondering if there are tricks people use to track down problems like
> this.

Perhaps not so much a trick as much as experience, but after working
with Python a bit, you'll find that any time you see something like
'NoneType not a callable' (or really any type) it pretty much says
that some object in your program should be a callable (function,
method, etc..) but is None (or the other type) instead.  So in general
I'd immediately start looking for uses of None in my code (or ways in
which my code could generate None at runtime).

Now, depending on how much new code you had written before the error
started happening could help bound your search, and/or depending on
the complexity of the code being tested you might be able to insert
judicious prints at various points to check the value of objects.  As
someone else pointed out, if you were proceeding in a test first
fashion you'd be at an advantage here since you would have high
confidence in existing code and that the error was introduced (or at
least tickled) specifically by whatever small amount of new code you
wrote since the last test execution.

Also, since the error was occurring on cleanup, it's related to
objects still alive at that time.  So that would help indicate that
you should focus your search on objects that live throughout the
duration of the test, as opposed to more transient code.

Not sure how much that would have streamlined this case (it is fairly
tricky given the gap between source of error and eventual failure),
but it sounds like just focusing on your uses of None would have at
least selected the weakref.ref call as a potential issue fairly
quickly.

-- David


From no.email at please.com  Sat Apr 10 06:33:37 2004
From: no.email at please.com (Stevie_mac)
Date: Sat, 10 Apr 2004 11:33:37 +0100
Subject: Simple Class Question - need clarity please
References: <EYFdc.51749$Id.27192@news-binary.blueyonder.co.uk>
	<2tce701vv505395hcr6dqtvc8ot0fdmkrk@4ax.com>
	<c57d1q$1euk$1@news.wplus.net>
	<CaKdc.4701$I83.74460@twister.tampabay.rr.com>
Message-ID: <c58iha$gsf$1@news.wplus.net>

very odd. Works for my now too. Is there some sort of cache that holds onto old (bad) code?

I was definitely getting an error when I ran test.py, but not when I ran mywindow directly!

"Patrick Ellis" <pellis.nospam at tampabay.rr.com> wrote in message news:CaKdc.4701$I83.74460 at twister.tampabay.rr.com...
> Stevie_mac wrote:
> >
> ><snipped code for mywindow.py and test.py>
> >
> ><snipped error message from running test.py>
>
> I cut and pasted from your post into mywindow.py and test.py. When I ran
> test.py I got a window with a cancel button, that went away when I clicked
> the button. There were no error messages.
>
>




From zunbeltz at wm.lc.ehu.es.XXX  Wed Apr 21 05:56:43 2004
From: zunbeltz at wm.lc.ehu.es.XXX (Zunbeltz Izaola)
Date: 21 Apr 2004 11:56:43 +0200
Subject: fmod and %
Message-ID: <cthbrlllkmc.fsf@lcpxdf.wm.lc.ehu.es>


Hi,

I have a problem with % operation. It returns a incorrect value in
this case:

>>> -2.77555756156e-17%1
1.0

where the returned value should be -2.77555756156e-17.

The documentation says that there is same errors due to roundoff and
suggest to use fmod from math module.

>>> fmod( -2.77555756156e-17,1)
-2.77555756156e-17

Ok, but when i try the following:

>>> fmod(-0.32768000000000003,1)
-0.32768000000000003

but i want to get the result % gives

>>> -0.32768000000000003%1
0.67232000000000003

what is going wrong? Any suggestions

Thanks in advance

--
Zunbeltz Izaola


From eldiener at earthlink.net  Mon Apr 26 18:58:13 2004
From: eldiener at earthlink.net (Edward Diener)
Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2004 22:58:13 GMT
Subject: How to read a file from another server?  Newbie
References: <%Oejc.16$ph.9@fed1read07>
Message-ID: <9ugjc.3709$g31.1370@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net>

Sean Berry wrote:
> I am trying to read in a file from another server.
>
> If I try
> x = open("servername:/path/to/file", "r")

x = open("servername://path/to/file", "r")

>
> I get the following error:
> IOError: [Errno 2] No such file or directory:
> 'servername:/path/to/file'




From invalide at courriel.com  Sat Apr  3 19:02:21 2004
From: invalide at courriel.com (Askari)
Date: Sun, 04 Apr 2004 00:02:21 GMT
Subject: Spinbox (Tkinter module)
Message-ID: <Xns94C0C1ACAEF929974331cvmqcca@207.35.177.135>

Hi,
   I search on google a example for Spinbox (with Tkinter module). Can't 
find!   If someone have a basic example for with a Spinbox, send me him!
Because? I don't know how use this widget! :-(   I can put a Spinbox on my 
canvas, I see it but can't change the "value" with up/down button. How I 
must do for that the "value" change?

Askari

N.B. My public e-mail adresse is invalid.


From gandreas at no.reply  Wed Apr 14 13:16:53 2004
From: gandreas at no.reply (Glenn Andreas)
Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2004 12:16:53 -0500
Subject: Pygame
References: <c5jdv2$s4$1@orkan.itea.ntnu.no>
	<xZydnfgqeaiK3ODdRVn-tw@powergate.ca>
	<c5jgvh$2m5$1@orkan.itea.ntnu.no>
	<mailman.620.1081958099.20120.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <gandreas-33F0F9.12165314042004@news.mpls.visi.com>

In article <mailman.620.1081958099.20120.python-list at python.org>,
 Jakub Fast <kfast at poczta.onet.pl> wrote:

> pygame (and sdl) are lgpl licensed and as such they are not 
> commercial-friendly.
> 
> kuba
> 

sdl is used in a number of commercial settings including a bunch of 
ports done by Loki Games and even ThQ's "Nemo's Underwater World of Fun" 
(and it's hard to be more commercial than "Finding Nemo").


From bnetNOSPAM at ifrance.com  Fri Apr 30 02:02:12 2004
From: bnetNOSPAM at ifrance.com (=?iso-8859-1?q?Beno=EEt_Dejean?=)
Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2004 08:02:12 +0200
Subject: Why cannot jump out the loop?
References: <mailman.141.1083291706.25742.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <pan.2004.04.30.06.02.09.553921@ifrance.com>

Le Thu, 29 Apr 2004 21:21:41 -0500, Jinming Xu a ?crit?:

> Hi Everyone,
> 
> I have a very simple python program, which includes a while loop. But to my 
> surprise,  it cannot jump out the while loop. Does anyone know why?
> 
> Here is the program:
> ___________________________
> #!/usr/bin/env python
> import sys

> n=sys.argv[1]

n = int(sys.argv[1])

> i=0
> while i<n:
>   print "i=",i," n=",n
>   i+=1

ugly C style, better use range

for i in range(int(sys.argv[1])):
	print i


From jean-michel.caricand at laposte.net  Fri Apr  9 03:58:13 2004
From: jean-michel.caricand at laposte.net (Jean-Michel Caricand)
Date: Fri, 9 Apr 2004 09:58:13 +0200
Subject: Function args
References: <sdqdc.37060$zm5.15866@nntpserver.swip.net>
	<c55f5r$f2l$1@news-reader4.wanadoo.fr>
	<c55g8u$vvg$1@s1.read.news.oleane.net>
	<c55joj$q5f$1@news-reader1.wanadoo.fr>
Message-ID: <c55l79$2ik$1@s1.read.news.oleane.net>

J'ai bien compris la le?on.

Mer?i pour tout !

"Michel Claveau/Hamster" <No.Spam.mc at No.Spam.mclaveau.No.Spam.com> a ?crit
dans le message de news: c55joj$q5f$1 at news-reader1.wanadoo.fr...
> Re
>
> Je redis : en Python, les objets ne sont pas modifiables (sauf listes et
> dictionnaires).
>
> En faisant :
>   c = b
>   b = a
>   a = c
>
> Cela veut dire :
>  - c=b  cr?ation d'un objet auquel on affecte la valeur b, avec une
variable
> c qui pointe dessus
>  - b=a  cr?ation d'un objet auquel on affecte la valeur a, avec une
variable
> b qui pointe dessus
>  - a=c  cr?ation d'un objet auquel on affecte la valeur c, avec une
variable
> a qui pointe dessus
>
> Donc, au r?sultat, on aura bien eu un ?change des valeurs, mais avec
> cr?ation d'objets.
>
> D'ailleurs, on peut suivre ce qui se passe, avec  id() qui donne
> l'identifiant unique d'un objet.
>
> a=2
> print id (a)
> a=3
> print id(a)
> a+=1
> print id(a)
>
> On voit bien qu'il y a cr?ation d'un nouvel objet 'a'  ? chaque
affectation.
>
> Il faut comprendre qu'il y a deux notions :
>     - en Python, une variable est toujours une r?f?rence (? un objet)
>     - les objets ne sont pas modifiables (sauf listes et dictionnaires)
>
>
>
>
> Si tu veux vraiment utiliser des objets modifiables, passe par une liste,
ou
> un dictionnaire.
> Exemple avec un dictionnaire :
>     def permut(x,y):
>         d[x],d[y]=d[y],d[x]
>
>     d={'a':2, 'b':3}
>     print d['a'],d['b']
>     print id(d['a']),id(d['b'])
>
>     permut('a','b')
>     print d['a'],d['b']
>     print id(d['a']),id(d['b'])
>
>
> On voit bien, ici, gr?ce a "id()", qu'ici, il y a eu ?change des adresses
> (r?f?rence) des ?l?ments internes du dictionnaire.
>
>
> Ce syst?me de gestion des objets par r?f?rence, dans Python, est assez
> fabuleux, car une variable peut r?f?rencer n'importe quel objet : un
nombre,
> une fonction, un dictionnaire, une liste de liste de liste, une classe,
etc.
> Les possibilit?s deviennent inou?es. Mais il faut bien ma?triser les
notions
> d'abord.
>
>
>
> @-salutations
>
> Michel Claveau
>
>
>
>
>
>
>




From lbates at swamisoft.com  Thu Apr 22 10:15:42 2004
From: lbates at swamisoft.com (Larry Bates)
Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2004 09:15:42 -0500
Subject: Python use large scale projects
References: <47fc6058.0404212327.24163290@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <aKydnV3AIssWThrdRVn-gg@comcast.com>

I mostly work on Windows platform, but about 20% of
my work is on Linux so my answer will be slanted
towards Windows development, but I think the same is
true of a pure Linux development environment also.

I commonly use Python on projects that exceed 10000 lines
which would require 4x-5x times that much C.  I just
completed a project that included over 13,000 lines of
Python code frozen by py2exe into a Windows NT service
(this didn't count the many thousands of lines of code
that is housed in external calls to Python Imaging
Library, ReportLab .PDf generation library, wxPython
and API .dll's that are called from my Python application).
Total application size probably exceeds 70K lines of code.

Maintainability of such code is outstanding.  I have
come back to projects written years ago and can quickly
pick up where I left off.  This is something I cannot
seem to do with legacy PHP code that I've written.

My choice of Python came down to this: If I want to
write scripts, console apps, GUI apps, services/daemons,
web apps, develop for Windows, Linux, Palm, etc. without
Python I'm forced into several different languages (e.g.
C++, VB, ASP, etc.).  It is difficult enough to learn one
language well, I found it impossible to learn ASP, C++,
and VB well enough to be productive in all 3.  With
updates to 3 languages it was impossible to keep up.
If you wish to develop on different platforms, the
problem is even more severe (without Python).

With Python I can do all this (and more) but can
actually develop in one language that I'm learning very
well.  It also allows me to leverage off of libraries
of debugged code that I've developed for prior
applications, which accelerates application development
greatly.  Example: I have a single logging class that I
use in ALL my applications (BTW-my logging class predates
the new logging class built into Python 2.3).  I include
the logging class, instantiate it and go.  It is 400+
lines of Python that I've debugged/enhanced over several
years.

The ONLY knock I have against Python is in developing
pure GUI applications.  My business partner is a
PowerBuilder developer.  For pure GUI applications he
finds PowerBuilder superior to Python (actually this
is something that I cannot argue against), but he
still gets me to write COM objects, NT Services,
console applications and data conversion/manipulation
"pieces" for him when needed.  Some day Python will
have a GUI development environment that makes GUI/database
applications as easy to develop as PowerBuilder apps.
Of course he is limited to Widows and Web apps (while
possible in PowerBuilder) are difficult and expensive
(due to licensing).

While I'm certain there are developers out there that
can manage this juggling act, I couldn't.  Even if you
choose a "front end" language like PowerBuilder, VB, etc.
you find that you still need "back end" pieces.  I don't
think there is a better choice than Python.

I should point out that I have 30+ years of experience
and have learned many languages over the years, so I'm
not a language bigot.  I just want something that makes
me productive and that produces reliable programs that
are HIGHLY maintainable.  Maintenance becomes 80% of the
problem after an application is developed. Python fits
that bill for me.

I hope this information is of some assistance.

Regards,
Larry Bates
Syscon, Inc.

"limor" <limorh at Spediant.com> wrote in message
news:47fc6058.0404212327.24163290 at posting.google.com...
> Hi,
> I am considering using Python in a new testing tool application we
> intend to build for out product.
> I must get references before starting develope in this language ,
> since although lots of good things are said about this language , I
> still have my doubts how can it compete with languages like C++ and
> Java.
> I have found te sytax and some features if the language not as
> problematic in maintenance prospective (although I keep reading the
> contrary everywhere I read somthing about python) . For people who are
> used to write in C and C++ I think the python being typless makes the
> code hard to maintain.
>
> But still, In many prespective the language seems to really suit my
> needs and I would really like to talk with people who are using Python
> in their company to medium-large scale project.
>
> I'd really like to talk with someone who is using this language in his
> work for large scale projects.
> 10x allot for whoe ever reply me on that.
> With Regards,
> limor.
> Spediant Systems Ltd.
> Igal Alon 126 TA, Israel.




From eltronic at juno.com  Sat Apr  3 17:51:47 2004
From: eltronic at juno.com (eltronic at juno.com)
Date: Sat, 3 Apr 2004 17:51:47 -0500
Subject: emergent/swarm/evolutionary systems etc
Message-ID: <20040403.175310.-478629.2.eltronic@juno.com>

On Sat, 3 Apr 2004 18:19:05 +0000 (UTC) "Peter MacKenzie" <peter9547
btinternet.com> writes:
> I think then that I might stick with spreadsheets as far a possible.  
its easy to under estimate the time it takes to get fluent in
a spreadsheet while over estimating the time it takes to get fluent
with python based on familiarity alone.
don't neglect the paper and pencil flowchart, 
clean data and apples to apples comparisons.

> Do you
> know of any simulation programs that might be more suited?  
Simpy  http://simpy.sourceforge.net/  is one.
see recent pycon one page presentation
http://www.python.org/pycon/dc2004/papers/16/

> how would
> you extract data from a spreadsheet for use in another program? 
export csv, saveas csv,
Comma Delimited or Comma Separated Value
python can parse that file, help(csv) .


e
please forward all spam to  uce at ftc.gov


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From simon at brunningonline.net  Wed Apr 21 09:31:58 2004
From: simon at brunningonline.net (Simon Brunning)
Date: 21 Apr 2004 06:31:58 -0700
Subject: Opening MS Word files via Python
References: <7b454334.0404201628.371b9e8@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <314b29e9.0404210531.3be418ee@posting.google.com>

faizan at jaredweb.com (Fazer) wrote in message 
> I am curious as to how I should approach this issue.  I would just
> want to parse simple text and maybe perhaps tables in the future. 
> Would I have to save the word file and open it in a text editor?  That
> would kind of....suck...  Has anyone else tackled this issue?

See http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Cookbook/Python/Recipe/279003

Cheers,
Simon B.


From oliver.schoenborn at utoronto.ca  Tue Apr  6 23:18:29 2004
From: oliver.schoenborn at utoronto.ca (Humpty Dumpty)
Date: Tue, 6 Apr 2004 23:18:29 -0400
Subject: painful debugging: techniques?
Message-ID: <WqKcc.5327$BF2.680616@news20.bellglobal.com>

Hello, I've been using python for about 3 months now. Prior to that I did
C++ for over 5 years. I'm wondering if my debugging techniques are too C++
oriented.

E.g., it took me about 9 hrs of debugging to figure out that the second
parameter to weakref.ref() was being passed as None. This is odd because the
second parameter is optional, yet its default value is not documented, so I
assumed that passing None would be fine, and then I forgot that I was doing
that. It took that long mostly because the exception message was "Exception
TypeError: 'NoneType not a callable' in None being ignored", ie it was being
ignored and function from which it was being raised was unknown to Python
(somehow), *and* it was only being raised upon exit of the test (cleanup).
So I had no way of knowing where this was being raised. It was nasty.

I'm wondering if there are tricks people use to track down problems like
this.

Thanks,

Oliver




From junkmail at solumslekt.org  Tue Apr 27 17:52:50 2004
From: junkmail at solumslekt.org (Leif B. Kristensen)
Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2004 23:52:50 +0200
Subject: Tkinter vs. wxPython?
References: <mailman.53.1083089176.25742.python-list@python.org>
	<05gt801pbp6jmprrcbr78npbp2j2q0i94p@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <4DAjc.532$id.8014@news2.e.nsc.no>

Alan Gauld rose and spake:

[Tkinter, wxPython]
> I've played with both but my GUI needs are simple - usually
> putting a nice front end on a CLI script. (Fancy GUI stuff I tend
> to do in Delphi - oh the shame of it...)
> 
> But my experience suggests similar findings, Tkinter is dead easy
> to build small GUIs but it has a limited widget set (even
> including PMW) and has no currently maintained graphical GUI
> builder so far as I know (SpecPython is long discontnued!)
> 
> And there is no doubt that wxPython looks more natural, on
> windows at least, although the differences aren't enough to make
> me switch. BUt my needs are, as I said, very simple.

Right now I'm trying to build a GUI frontend to my genealogy database.
I've settled on Tkinter for the present. I've tried PyQT, wxPython, and
Tkinter sofar, and have settled with Tkinter for the time being because
of the superior documentation. This being my first serious attempt of
building a GUI ever, I need to rely heavily on tutorials and sample
code. There's nothing that beats Tkinter in this respect.

What I really miss in the Libre Software world is a kind of integrated
GUI data representation / entry interface like in the old DBase II
days. I don't want to write thousands of lines of code just to throw
pixels on the screen. What I want is a simple way to design forms, and
spend my main effort on the interface to the backend database.

I've had a good look on Knoda <url:http://www.knoda.org/> to this
effect. It is very promising, but it isn't quite there yet.

regards,
-- 
Leif Biberg Kristensen
http://solumslekt.org/
Validare necesse est


From pm_mon at yahoo.com  Wed Apr 21 13:54:28 2004
From: pm_mon at yahoo.com (Paul Morrow)
Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2004 13:54:28 -0400
Subject: Difficulty Finding Python Developers
In-Reply-To: <65cbc3dd.0404140641.3501fde8@posting.google.com>
References: <65cbc3dd.0404140641.3501fde8@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <c66cgm$khv$1@sea.gmane.org>

Thanks to everyone for their suggestions and ideas on this.  Our HR 
department placed an ad on monster.com, which currently is mostly being 
answered by recuiters and spammers, but we're hopeful we'll get more 
actual applicants soon.

If anyone is interested in this short gig, and can work in Atlanta, you 
can find our ad by searching on loyaltyworks as the keyword.

Thanks again!




From mlh at furu.idi.ntnu.no  Fri Apr 23 18:56:38 2004
From: mlh at furu.idi.ntnu.no (Magnus Lie Hetland)
Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2004 22:56:38 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Regexp optimization question
References: <slrnc8gal3.9da.mlh@furu.idi.ntnu.no>
	<c69b42$9f6eq$1@ID-99293.news.uni-berlin.de>
	<slrnc8iejt.7j7.mlh@furu.idi.ntnu.no>
	<c6brgc$a70l0$1@ID-99293.news.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <slrnc8j7p6.s9i.mlh@furu.idi.ntnu.no>

In article <c6brgc$a70l0$1 at ID-99293.news.uni-berlin.de>, William Park wrote:
[snip]
>
>Since you want both the matched strings and their locations in file, you
>pretty much have to this manually, one by one.

Well -- that's more or less what I'm doing. (Or -- I can get the match
objects all at once, of course, using finditer.)

I guess I'll have to look elsewhere for performance improvements. Hm.

-- 
Magnus Lie Hetland              "Wake up!"  - Rage Against The Machine
http://hetland.org              "Shut up!"  - Linkin Park


From newsgroups at jhrothjr.com  Wed Apr  7 13:14:19 2004
From: newsgroups at jhrothjr.com (John Roth)
Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2004 13:14:19 -0400
Subject: Are line continuations needed?
References: <mailman.418.1081348606.20120.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1078dq6i93pc12d@news.supernews.com>

RE: Are line continuations needed?
"Batista, Facundo" <FBatista at uniFON.com.ar> wrote in message
news:mailman.418.1081348606.20120.python-list at python.org...
[wallacethinmintr at eircom.net]
#- Python lets you continue a single logical line across more than one
#- physical line, either by putting a \ at the end or letting it happen
#- automatically with an incomplete infix operator.
#-
#- I'm wondering how often is this feature needed? Would there be any
#- problems if it weren't part of the language?
The issue is:
  How important is to remove this feature, considering that it'll break
zillions of lines of code around the world?
.       Facundo

[John Roth]

It is, I believe, planned for removal in 3.0. Remember that
3.0 will break everything anyway: it's the release for incompatible
changes.

re someone else's comment about imports. The
ability to put parentheses around lists of modules
or elements in imports will be in 2.4.

John Roth





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From skip at pobox.com  Tue Apr 20 10:45:40 2004
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 09:45:40 -0500
Subject: emacs for OS X
In-Reply-To: <See_my-BB1217.02175320042004@news.verizon.net>
References: <See_my-BB1217.02175320042004@news.verizon.net>
Message-ID: <16517.14228.600379.15438@montanaro.dyndns.org>


    Tuxtrax> I found python-mode.el in the python distribution folder, but
    Tuxtrax> not only do I have no clue as to what to do with it, I can't
    Tuxtrax> find an emacs folder or a .emac file. Just the emac
    Tuxtrax> program. Any help with this would be greatly appreciated. If
    Tuxtrax> you have overcome this yourself I especially want to hear from
    Tuxtrax> you.

Stick it in a directory in your Emacs load-path and byte-compile it.  C-h v
load-path RET will show you what your load-path is. M-x byte-compile-file
RET will prompt you for a file to compile.  Respond with the full path to
your copy of python-mode.el.  Finally, associate .py files with python-mode
by adding something like

    (setq auto-mode-alist (cons '("\\.py$" . python-mode) auto-mode-alist))
    
to your ~/.xemacs (or ~/.xemacs/init.el, depending on XEmacs version) file.

Skip



From lbates at swamisoft.com  Wed Apr 14 16:40:25 2004
From: lbates at swamisoft.com (Larry Bates)
Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2004 15:40:25 -0500
Subject: Method for providing a trail period on a program
References: <L8idnY07QbRfNPHdRVn-hw@comcast.com>
	<slrnc6pcmh.1f2.bignose-hates-spam@rose.localdomain.fake>
	<407CF4F0.4020604@yahoo.com.au>
Message-ID: <avOdnevBfd4kPODdRVn-gg@comcast.com>

My post has gotten some really varied responses.
I've been writing software for over 30 years
so I know that there is no "fool-proof" way
of doing what I want.  But I thought someone
may have come up with an "acceptable" solution.
I contribute to this newsgroup on a regular
basis and thought I would at least ask.

I find the idea that you can give the software
away and charge for support an interesting one.
If you write REALLY good software with REALLY
good documentation that provides REALLY good
tracing and debugging support (so users can
track down their own problems), what are you
going to charge for?

The reason I wanted to put a trial period on
my software was that I may have the opportunity
to place it on the CDROM with a hardware device
that is being sold.  I would like every end
user to have the opportunity of trying out my
add-on package.  I am however, not prepared to
let them run it forever for free.  If it provides
value to them, I believe they should purchase a
license.  This may put me in the minority on
a Python site, but that's the way I feel.

Regards,
Larry Bates
Syscon, Inc.


"Steve" <dippyd at yahoo.com.au> wrote in message
news:407CF4F0.4020604 at yahoo.com.au...
> Ben Finney wrote:
> > On Thu, 1 Apr 2004 17:46:12 -0600, Larry Bates wrote:
> >
> >>I'm searching for a good way to provide a "trail period" (something
> >>like 90 days) for a commercial application that I'm writing.  I'd like
> >>something that can easily stop working 90 days after installation.
> >
> >
> > Why do you want to break your user's programs to gain money?  Will they
> > not pay for your work without their programs breaking?  What does that
> > say about the value of your work?
>
> In fairness, it might not be Larry's work that he isn't
> confident about, but the honesty of his customers.
>
> Larry, how foolproof do you want this trial period to
> be? How sophisticated are your clients? How motivated
> are they to crack it? What are your motives for wanting
> to disable the program? Are you sure your business
> model is the best way?
>
> For example, perhaps you would be better off
> distributing a free version with reduced functionality,
> with the additional functionality only in the non-free
> version.
>
> If you want a foolproof mechanism for disabling the
> program after the trial period, then Python is probably
> not the language for you. Actually, a sufficiently
> motivated hacker will find some way to crack your
> protection no matter what you do.
>
> Besides, there is one other thing you should consider.
> You're not Microsoft. Your biggest problem isn't people
> ripping you off by not paying for your software, it is
> that people don't even know your software exists.
> Perhaps it is worth letting people make free copies in
> order to spread the word. Don't think of it as being
> ripped off, think of it as advertising.
>
> Just a few thoughts for you to consider.
>
>
> -- 
> Steven D'Aprano
>
>
>
>
>
>
>




From fumanchu at amor.org  Thu Apr  1 23:23:39 2004
From: fumanchu at amor.org (Robert Brewer)
Date: Thu, 1 Apr 2004 20:23:39 -0800
Subject: Stackless Website down, Project gone, I'm dead.
Message-ID: <DE1CF2B4FEC4A342BF62B6B2B334601E561F9E@opus.amorhq.net>

Christian Tismer wrote:
> On Mach 31st, some bad intruder has broken into our CVS
> server. (S)he has replaced all of our files by some
> dummy entries. This was quite bad, since the new Stackless
> developer group was happily hacking on after the sprint,
> March 10-14, and we were updating CVS on a very frequent basis.
> 
> As a result, all sources of Stackless Python are totally lost, now.

I'm very sorry to hear that, Christian.

> Since I always was a very emotion driven guy, I thought this
> was the right situation to say good-bye to you all. My life
> is ending, soon, and so is my project. We could try to find some
> backups, but I do say NO!, Please, do appropriate cleanup!
> 
> The evil truth of real life has told me where my path is headed
> to. Please make no attempt to revive Stackless. It is completely
> dead, and I'm going to take it with me into my cold, lonely grave.
> 
> I have spent the rest of my time on it, and now I want to rest
> on it, since my time is over. So please avoid to mention it
> any longer, not in news, not in interviews, and *please*
> absolutely don't use it!!!
> Stackless is gone, Tismer is gone, and this is good, since I
> already have told you all the lies that I could tell you in a
> lifetime.
> 
> Rest In Peace forever with   -- Stackfull Python --

Christian,

I hope I'm hearing your words as worse than you mean them. I haven't
been on this list for long, but I've quickly learned to appreciate your
ingenuity, experience, and determination. I was going to tell you today
I ended up using your solution to my recent deduping problem
(sufficiently molded to my existing code, of course ;)--I really
appreciate your help with that!

If Stackless is truly gone, I pray you are able to find a new project or
group where you feel truly useful.

Hang in there,


Robert Brewer
MIS
Amor Ministries
fumanchu at amor.org



From usenet_spam at janc.invalid  Sat Apr 10 18:44:56 2004
From: usenet_spam at janc.invalid (JanC)
Date: Sat, 10 Apr 2004 22:44:56 GMT
Subject: [OT] The Cracker's Guide To Python
References: <04g770lqpbhdgr3n3b9mnu9o8f08fdkgk0@4ax.com>
	<b68f71a7.0404080351.381fe1fe@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <Xns94C879EE1426JanC@213.119.4.35>

alan_salmoni at yahoo.com (Alan James Salmoni) schreef:

> Maybe the idea could be added to by laying emphasis on certain
> modules. Bundle up Python and advertise it on Kazaa like:
> 
> "Python - l334 5(r1pt1n9 t001z - crypt, encodings.idna, getpass, and
> pwd [password] modules h4x0r3d and included as a bonus." :)

You know, BitTorrent & IRC are more "in" than Kazaa these days...

-- 
JanC

"Be strict when sending and tolerant when receiving."
RFC 1958 - Architectural Principles of the Internet - section 3.9


From tjreedy at udel.edu  Thu Apr 22 12:17:36 2004
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2004 12:17:36 -0400
Subject: Deleting objects
References: <b4a8ffb6.0404220608.56bf3d63@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <c68r6q$3sb$1@sea.gmane.org>


"Thomas Philips" <tkpmep at hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:b4a8ffb6.0404220608.56bf3d63 at posting.google.com...
> I'm teaching myself OOP using Michael Dawson's "Python Programming For
> The Absolute Beginner" and have a question about deleting objects. My
> game has two classes: Player and Alien, essentially identical,
> instances of which can shoot at each other. Player is described below
>
> class Player(object):
>     #Class attributes for class Player
>     n=0 #n is the number of players
>
>     #Private methods for class Player
>     def __init__(self,name):
> self.name = name

You appear to have use a tab here and spaces below.  Never mix, and stick
with spaces for posted code.

>         self.strength = 100
>         Player.n +=1
>
>     def __del__(self):
>         Player.n -=1
>         print "I guess I lost this battle"
>
>     #Public methods for class Player
>     def blast(self,enemy,energy):
>         enemy.hit(energy)
>
>     def hit(self,energy):
>         self.strength -= energy
>         if(self.strength <= 50):
>             self.__del__()
>
> I instantiate one instance of each class:
> Hero = Player("Me")
> Villain = Alien("Not Me")
>
> If Hero hits Villain with
> Hero.blast(Villain, 100),
>
> Villain dies and executes its destructor (__del__).

However, the name 'Villain' is still bound to the corresponding object in
globals().  Executing the __del__ method of an object does *NOT* delete the
object.  This *only* thing special about that method is that it is called
'behind the scenes' when an objects refcount goes to 0.

> The game then
> ends. However, when I execute the program in IDLE, IT FINISHES BY
> EXECUTING THE DESTRUCTOR FOR BOTH HERO AND VILLAIN.

__del__ methods are not destructors.  There are merely called be the
interpreter's internal destructor function.

> How can this be? As one of the two objects was destroyed prior to the
> end of the game,

As explained above, it was not destroyed.  You merely called a method that
happened to be named __del__.

Getting rid of *all* references to an object, in order to allow destruction
(but not guarantee it), can be difficult.

> how can it be re-destroyed when the program ends?

Terry J. Reedy






From soeren_kunst at hotmail.NOSPAM.com  Tue Apr 20 08:22:05 2004
From: soeren_kunst at hotmail.NOSPAM.com (Sören Kunst)
Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 14:22:05 +0200
Subject: Tutorial
Message-ID: <c634jv$mp9$1@hermes.p4.net>

hello, i need a good tutorial for Python, nothing for beginners

wfw S?ren




From claird at lairds.com  Mon Apr  5 07:24:48 2004
From: claird at lairds.com (Cameron Laird)
Date: Mon, 05 Apr 2004 11:24:48 -0000
Subject: python processes names
References: <f6554b84.0404050308.7980080@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <1072gg0ru281n48@corp.supernews.com>

In article <f6554b84.0404050308.7980080 at posting.google.com>,
Sylwia <lubowiecka at go2.pl> wrote:
>Hi!
>
>How to make python programs show up by name is ps (e.g ps -e). By
>default if  we have many different python processes running
>simultaneously, then we can only see python python python for three
>different python processes. I would much rather see
>first_python_program_name.py, second_python_program_name.py and
>third_python_program_name.py listed by ps. Is that possible without
>downloading and installing any non-standard modules?
			.
			.
			.
There are MANY ways to go about this.  I presume Linux is
your host.  Does "ps -F" bring you closer to what you're 
after?
-- 

Cameron Laird <claird at phaseit.net>
Business:  http://www.Phaseit.net


From ny_r_marquez at yahoo.com  Thu Apr  8 10:02:01 2004
From: ny_r_marquez at yahoo.com (R.Marquez)
Date: 8 Apr 2004 07:02:01 -0700
Subject: unc paths in os.path.walk on win2000?
References: <c52ulo$1heb$1@otis.netspace.net.au>
Message-ID: <8a27e309.0404080602.294ebf34@posting.google.com>

I'm not sure if this is the problem but from the little info you give...

You may have to escape the backlash like this:

"\\\\server\\path"

Or, you may want to use raw strings like this:

r"\\server\path"

-Ruben

"leo" <halloleo at noospaam.myrealbox.com> wrote in message news:<c52ulo$1heb$1 at otis.netspace.net.au>...
> how can i use unc paths in os.path.walk on win2000?
> 
> i tried the \\server\path representation in python 2.3 and it didn't work...
> 
> thanks, leo


From jacek.generowicz at cern.ch  Thu Apr 22 07:40:39 2004
From: jacek.generowicz at cern.ch (Jacek Generowicz)
Date: 22 Apr 2004 13:40:39 +0200
Subject: AOP use cases
References: <84fc4588.0404140106.3fa0c55@posting.google.com>
	<slrnc7q1ss.1aa.alf@largo.fayauffre.org>
	<cb035744.0404141130.170f51c4@posting.google.com>
	<slrnc7sgat.vp.alf@largo.fayauffre.org>
	<cb035744.0404160442.2f0b1661@posting.google.com>
	<0pydnSB4WYuieuLdRVn-hQ@powergate.ca>
	<tyfbrlkv3ae.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
	<XYmdnVLB9rjbARrdRVn-vg@powergate.ca>
Message-ID: <tyf7jw8utoo.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>

Peter Hansen <peter at engcorp.com> writes:

> Jacek Generowicz wrote:
> (a lengthy reply, and thank you for taking the time!)
> > Peter Hansen <peter at engcorp.com> writes:
> >>I would be very interested to hear some real-world and real useful
> >>use cases for AOP as well.
> > AOP is about separation of concerns. Let me repeat that: AOP is about
> 
> >           SEPARATION OF CONCERNS.
> [snip]
> > As for real world examples ... if you think of AOP as separation of
> > concerns which you want to be weaved together, then I am sure that you
> > will be able to come up with plenty of excellent real world examples
> > yourself.
> 
> Unfortunately, that's just my point.  So far I haven't been able
> to do that, it seems.

> The example posted previously with the "synchronization wrapper"
> approach is, however, quite understandable and comes from real-world
> experience that many of us share.  Is that AOP?  Is it not AOP?

Well, that depends on what you think AOP is. If you think that AOP is
Kiczales' work in Java, then clearly the synchronization wrapper isn't
AOP. If you think of AOP as separation of concerns, then the
synchornization wrapper is AOP ... but then so are optimizing
compilers. I am partial to a view somewhere in between those two
extremes ... maybe viewing AOP as a pattern.

But "AOP" is a buzzphrase and it's probably best not to get too hung
up on buzzphrases. I would prefer to see the ideas behind it and to
try to apply any that have merit where they may help me. "Separation
of concerns" summarizes something towards which I've been striving,
even unconciously, before I ever heard of AOP, but seeing it as an
active field of study encourages me to believe that it might become
easier to separate concerns in my programs, either through language
support, or people discovering neat ways of achieving it in various
languages.

> If it's an application of AOP principles, then is AOP anything other
> than a good practice which some of us have been doing for years,
> prettied up with a nice name.  In other words, Just Another Pattern?

Yes, I think that you are justified, to some extent, to view it as
just another pattern. Of course, some languages make it easier to do
AOP as a pattern, while others require external help, while in others
still it's so trivial that it doesn't even merit being called a
pattern:

   Consider multiple dispatch in Common Lisp, C++ and C; in C++ it's a
   pattern (Visitor), in CL it just is, and in C ... ?
   
   How about the State Pattern? "foo.__class__ = bar" is how you do it
   in Python, is that a pattern?
   
   How about OOP in C++ and C? in C++ it just is, and in C it's a
   pattern (or requires external help: ie somebody coming along and
   implementing C++ or Objective C).

So, maybe AOP is a technology in Java, a pattern in Python, and just
is in the CLOS MOP ?

(Hmm, I recall a pertinent anecdote about this ... let's see if I can
find it ... here it is

Message id: <quCac.12983$1C1.5962031 at twister.nyc.rr.com> :

   I am reminded of Gregor Kiczales (sp?) at ILC 2003 displaying some
   AspectJ to a silent crowd, pausing, then plaintively adding, "When
   I show that to Java programmers they stand up and cheer."
)

> You seem to be someone who understands AOP well:

Oh lawd, I never intended to create such an illision !

I like to think that one of my merits is trying (and sometimes even
succeeding) to see past all the noise and hype surrounding something
and understaing, in as simple terms as possible, what the essence of
it is. It is from this perspective that I offered my article: I know
essentially bugger all about AOP in Java, but I believe that AOP is
about separation of concerns. If you look at it that way, next time
you are come across the need to separate concerns, a little bell might
ring and you might think of AOP. How you go about separating those
concerns is strongly dependent on the language you happen to be using.

> do you use it?

Certainly not in the Java sense.

Unfortunately I'm stuck mostly in C++ hell, but I suspect that
separation of concerns creeps into my Python code (when I get to write
some), probably even without me explicitly identifying it a such.

> Could you please provide an example from your own uses which
> demonstrates the effectiveness of AOP versus "not AOP" in the same
> way that the synchronization example posted earlier is clearly
> better when done as a wrapper than with the code duplicated
> everywhere (i.e. with the "concerns" not separated)?

Not offhand. If I notice some neat separation of concerns in my work
I'll try to remember to post it.


Sorry, this ended up much longer than it should have been.


From peter at engcorp.com  Mon Apr  5 15:12:33 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Mon, 05 Apr 2004 15:12:33 -0400
Subject: design by contract versus doctest
In-Reply-To: <4071a6d4$0$5064$4d4ebb8e@news.nl.uu.net>
References: <407174ea$0$5066$4d4ebb8e@news.nl.uu.net>
	<T7Sdnf23r-IZGOzdRVn-sA@powergate.ca>
	<40718ddb$0$5071$4d4ebb8e@news.nl.uu.net>
	<IdadnapeW8YCCOzdRVn-jw@powergate.ca>
	<4071a6d4$0$5064$4d4ebb8e@news.nl.uu.net>
Message-ID: <feKdnaUMq6w_MuzdRVn-jw@powergate.ca>

aku wrote:
> A nr of unittests will
> still be necessary to ensure preconditions, but in
> the (oversimplified) example I gave (n = 1), the test
> "if n < 0: ..." isn't necessary anymore and certainly not *in*
> the called function itself.
> 
> The "downside" with DBC I see is: when the caller *cannot*
> ensure a precondition, then the behavior in the called
> function becomes unpredictable. 

I agree that that appears to be a downside.  Furthermore,
if you have to verify in calling code that preconditions
are met, don't you end up with duplication outside of the
function that would otherwise have the check in it?

Well written code will have less duplication, not more,
so I'm still unclear how moving the check out of the
function (from your original example from doctest)
will actually improve things...

And if the code that checks this is in the function,
then a single unit test can verify that the check is
in place and working properly.  It sounds like moving
the check out of that function will lead to more
tests and/or more checks in other places, neither of
which is a good idea.

But I'm certainly no expert in (or proponent of) DBC...

-Peter


From tezt at email.si  Thu Apr  8 12:47:07 2004
From: tezt at email.si (Mitja)
Date: Thu, 8 Apr 2004 18:47:07 +0200
Subject: List vs tuples
Message-ID: <c54cjb$5fs$1@planja.arnes.si>

A neewbie's question here, probably discussed before:
what's the purpose of having both lists AND tuples?
At the first (and second and third, to be honest) glance lists are just
tuples with extended functionality, so why have tuples around?
I've been working with Python for a few months now but haven't yet come
across a problem that would really require tuples.

Thanks in advance,
Mitja




From samschul at pacbell.net  Tue Apr 27 21:16:34 2004
From: samschul at pacbell.net (Samuel Schulenburg)
Date: 27 Apr 2004 18:16:34 -0700
Subject: [ANN] USB mass storage support added to SCSIPython
Message-ID: <d7fcf8b4.0404271716.55163218@posting.google.com>

I have added SCSITOOLS23USBBeta.zip USB mass storage support to my
SCSIPython scsi diagnostic tools that I have been maintaining. This is
being released as a Beta as I expect to add some more features
shortly. This release supports all the functionality as the previous
release's and will allow you to test SCSI,ATA,USB, and PCMCIA storage
devices using the SCSIPASSTHROUGH layer in WindowsXX. These routines
can be found at http://starship.python.net/crew/samschul/

Sam Schulenburg
samschul at pacbell.net


From nuffsaid at phreaker.net  Fri Apr 30 05:56:19 2004
From: nuffsaid at phreaker.net (Nuff Said)
Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2004 11:56:19 +0200
Subject: locale.CODESET / different in python shell and scripts
References: <pan.2004.04.26.23.23.56.718739@phreaker.net>
	<c6mfs1$99j$01$1@news.t-online.com>
	<pan.2004.04.28.22.37.39.159529@phreaker.net>
	<4091621F.5060307@v.loewis.de>
	<pan.2004.04.29.21.44.21.815390@phreaker.net>
	<4091BA4A.4000608@v.loewis.de>
Message-ID: <pan.2004.04.30.09.56.18.389441@phreaker.net>

On Fri, 30 Apr 2004 04:30:34 +0200, Martin v. L?wis wrote:

> Nuff Said wrote:
>> When I add the following line to the above script
>> 
>>   print u"sch?nes M?dchen".encode(encoding)
>> 
>> the result is:
>> 
>>   sch?nes M?dchen    (with my self-compiled Python 2.3)
>>   sch??nes M??dchen  (with Fedora's Python 2.2)
>> 
>> I observed, that my Python gives me (the correct value) 15 for
>> len(u"sch?nes M?dchen") whereas Fedora's Python says 17 (one more
>> for each German umlaut, i.e. the len of the UTF-8 representation of
>> the string; observe, that the file uses the coding cookie for UTF-8).
>> Maybe Fedora's Python was compiled without Unicode support?
> 
> Certainly not: It would not support u"" literals without Unicode.

That's what I thought.

 
> Please understand that you can use non-ASCII characters in source
> code unless you also use the facilities described in
> 
> http://www.python.org/peps/pep-0263.html
> 
> So instead of "?", you should write "\xf6".

But *I do use* the line 

  # -*- coding: UTF-8 -*- 

from your PEP (directly after the shebang-line; s. the full source
code in my earlier posting). I thought, that allows me to write u"?"
(which - as described above - works in one of my two Pythons).  

??? Nuff.




From peter.maas at mplusr.de  Fri Apr  2 10:25:06 2004
From: peter.maas at mplusr.de (Peter Maas)
Date: Fri, 02 Apr 2004 17:25:06 +0200
Subject: Creating a matrix?
In-Reply-To: <c4jve7$5vr$1@bagan.srce.hr>
References: <c4jve7$5vr$1@bagan.srce.hr>
Message-ID: <c4k0ho$r73$1@swifty.westend.com>

Ivan Voras wrote:
> Is there a nice(r) way of creating a list of uniform values? I'm 
> currently using: list('0'*N), which makes a string and then chops it up 
> into a list. I need it to create a NxN matrix:
> 
 > matrix = [list('0'*N) for i in range(N)]

matrix = [['0']*N]*N

Mit freundlichen Gruessen,

Peter Maas

-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Peter Maas, M+R Infosysteme, D-52070 Aachen, Hubert-Wienen-Str. 24
Tel +49-241-93878-0 Fax +49-241-93878-20 eMail peter.maas at mplusr.de
-------------------------------------------------------------------


From jbperez808 at yahoo.com  Tue Apr  6 15:00:12 2004
From: jbperez808 at yahoo.com (Jon Perez)
Date: Wed, 07 Apr 2004 03:00:12 +0800
Subject: Type checking inside a C extension... mystery solved
In-Reply-To: <k1f5705ub212b5mk8dkhp764e5h6vn8had@4ax.com>
References: <c4qdfh$2l5b73$1@ID-180326.news.uni-berlin.de>
	<40712D9E.3050802@prescod.net> <407229F6.6080809@yahoo.com>
	<k1f5705ub212b5mk8dkhp764e5h6vn8had@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <c4uubp$2nlinc$1@ID-180326.news.uni-berlin.de>

Stephen Horne wrote:

> Python exceptions aren't converted to C exceptions, and the Python C
> API doesn't use C exceptions at all. There is a good reason for this.
> C doesn't have exceptions - C++ does, but this is a C API.

Ah... now I get this seemingly mysterious behaviour.

If PyString_AsString() attempts to convert a non-string Python object to a
C string, the exception is not thrown from within it, it only sets a flag
indicating that such an exception should eventually be thrown.

While the C extension function itself does need to return a NULL for said
exception occur, it does need to to return to Python runtime first to
trigger the exception.


> Python C API functions often return zero for error IIRC, so...
> 
>   if (PyString_AsString(strobj) == 0)  {  return 0;  }
> 
> Should ensure that the Python exception raised by PyString_AsString is
> propogated correctly.

This also answers my earlier question.  So there is no need to do a
PyString_Check() before feeding a value to PyString_AsString(), just
check the return value of PyString_AsString()...

Thanks everyone.


From godoy at ieee.org  Mon Apr 26 12:15:40 2004
From: godoy at ieee.org (Jorge Godoy)
Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2004 13:15:40 -0300
Subject: Parallel port interface
References: <ln9ul1-9h4.ln1@wintermute.g2ctech>
	<deidnRXEhdeC4RHdRVn-jA@powergate.ca>
Message-ID: <b9pvl1-04b.ln1@wintermute.g2ctech>

On Seg 26 Abr 2004 00:03, Peter Hansen wrote:

> http://pyserial.sourceforge.net/pyparallel.html might work.  Says
> "This module is still under developement. But it may be useful for
> developers."

You see... I must be blind or something like that :-) 

I was at the pyserial website but didn't see this. 


Thanks! 

-- 
Godoy.      <godoy at ieee.org>


From paddy3118 at netscape.net  Sat Apr 10 12:40:15 2004
From: paddy3118 at netscape.net (Paddy McCarthy)
Date: 10 Apr 2004 09:40:15 -0700
Subject: Wrapper round x86 Assembler
References: <8089854e.0404082353.7bf163a2@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <2ae25c6b.0404100840.10668dca@posting.google.com>

michael at foord.net (Fuzzyman) wrote in message news:<8089854e.0404082353.7bf163a2 at posting.google.com>...
> There might be a really good reason why this hasn't been done *or*
> someone might have done it and I just can't find it..... *but*
> 
> what about a wrapper to an assembler (presumably for x86 assembly !)
> !!
> I just wrote some code doing binary operations which would have been
> about a zillion times faster in a few lines of assembly code.
> 
> I also have fond memories of programming in BBC Basic which had an
> inline assembler - so you could wrap your assembly program in Basic.
> It meant some commercial games started with Basic !
> 
> Anyway - it would be easy to reserve some memory with a string like
> object to pass to an 'assembly object' and allow some really nifty
> (and fast) stuff ?? For simple algorithms it would be very neat.
> Avoiding memory overflow etc would be up to the assembly code 'chunk'
> of course.
> 
> Regards,
> 
> 
> Fuzzy
> 
> http://www.voidspace.org.uk/atlantibots/pythonutils.html
I.m sure that what I am about to suggest isn't as high tech as you
were expecting ,
but I thought that Python already has a way of accessing functions in
a Unix
shared library, or Windows DLL.
If you cancompile Python on the platform than you no doubt have an
assembler handy too.
So, you could put your assemble language in a string; write the string
to a file;
assemble the file to create a shered library or DLL, then call the
function from Python!

I don't think I'd do it that way though :-)

Cheers, Pad.


From claird at lairds.com  Thu Apr  1 08:58:15 2004
From: claird at lairds.com (Cameron Laird)
Date: Thu, 01 Apr 2004 13:58:15 -0000
Subject: But it still doesn't explain the joke (was: Python conference
	slogan)
References: <mailman.189.1080759511.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<kmjsj1-89u.ln1@snout.lairds.org> <c4glmq$j1i$1@swifty.westend.com>
	<c4h6ad$lu0$1@panix1.panix.com>
Message-ID: <106o7vn56fgmt85@corp.supernews.com>

In article <c4h6ad$lu0$1 at panix1.panix.com>, Aahz <aahz at pythoncraft.com> wrote:
			.
			.
			.
>IIRC, there's currently a court case to remove the "under God" part.
			.
			.
			.
In the litigious US, court cases for everything are unceasing.  What
I suspect you have in mind is a Supreme Court hearing for a father
who, if I understand correctly, claims his religious freedom as an 
atheist unconstitutionally impaired because of a requirement imposed
by the public school his daughter attends that she recite The Pledge
<URL: http://slate.msn.com/id/2097737/ >.

More background appears at <URL: http://slate.msn.com/id/2067499/ >.
-- 

Cameron Laird <claird at phaseit.net>
Business:  http://www.Phaseit.net


From bik.mido at tiscalinet.it  Tue Apr 27 17:12:41 2004
From: bik.mido at tiscalinet.it (Michele Dondi)
Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2004 23:12:41 +0200
Subject: Is Perl *that* good? (was: How's ruby compare to it older
	brother python)
References: <c6ich0$c5mee$1@ID-205437.news.uni-berlin.de>
	<iL3jc.232$Yc.2330@news4.e.nsc.no>
	<108q51j4dscn7dc@corp.supernews.com>
	<knbjc.267$id.3998@news2.e.nsc.no>
	<c6jsvd$cspf4$1@ID-205437.news.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <v1gt80pdise5mk0b261a7b5gd1pj6vvbsl@4ax.com>

?On Mon, 26 Apr 2004 16:55:02 -0400, "Ruby Tuesdays"
<NoSpamPlease_rubytuzdaiz at yahoo.com> wrote:

>Would this super perl program of yours can convert the massive amount of
>perl script to ruby or python?
>
>If it could, it would be great so ruby/python programmers does not have to
>learn those cryptic perl-ish syntax and the non-OOish scripting language.

Huh?!?


Michele
-- 
# This prints: Just another Perl hacker,
seek DATA,15,0 and  print   q... <DATA>;
__END__


From shalabh at cafepy.com  Wed Apr 14 20:34:47 2004
From: shalabh at cafepy.com (Shalabh Chaturvedi)
Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2004 17:34:47 -0700
Subject: Bug in eval function?
In-Reply-To: <e567c03a.0404140635.95a208b@posting.google.com>
References: <e567c03a.0404140635.95a208b@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <c5kl5s$ei4$1@sea.gmane.org>

Pascal wrote:
>>>>eval('88200')
> 
> 88200
> 
>>>>eval('00088200')
> 
> 
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "<pyshell#11>", line 1, in -toplevel-
>     eval('00088200')
>   File "<string>", line 1
>     00088200
>            ^
> SyntaxError: invalid token
> 

As Graham answered, you're writing octal. And as you see here, it is not 
just eval:

 >>> print 08
   File "<stdin>", line 1
     print 08
            ^

Shalabh




From rick.ratzel at magma-da.com  Wed Apr 21 03:04:55 2004
From: rick.ratzel at magma-da.com (Rick L. Ratzel)
Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2004 07:04:55 GMT
Subject: Embedding Python in C
References: <4039221c.0404201624.119476e9@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <408619B6.4010502@magma-da.com>

I'm assuming you mean PyArg_Parse and PyArg_ParseTuple?  I couldn't find 
any docs on Py_Parse or Py_ParseTuple...

Anyway, maybe something like this might work for you (portions taken 
from example in http://elmer.sourceforge.net/PyCon04/elmer_pycon04.html):

...
PyObject* evalModule;
PyObject* evalDict;
PyObject* evalVal;
PyObject* tupleItem;
unsigned char* my_c_array;
int i;
int tupleSize;

PyRun_SimpleString( "result = pyFuncWhichReadsDevice()" )

evalModule = PyImport_AddModule( (char*)"__main__" );
evalDict = PyModule_GetDict( evalModule );
evalVal = PyDict_GetItemString( evalDict, "result" );

if( evalVal == NULL ) {
    PyErr_Print();
    exit( 1 );

} else {
    if( !PyTuple_Check( evalVal ) ) {
       printf( "Error: pyFuncWhichReadsDevice() did not return a tuple" );
       exit( 1 );
    }

    my_c_array = (unsigned char*) malloc( sizeof( unsigned char ) * 
PyTuple_Size( evalVal ) );

    tupleSize = PyTuple_Size( evalVal );

    for( i=0; i < tupleSize; i++ ) {
       tupleItem = PyTuple_GetItem( evalVal, i );

       if( !PyInt_Check( tupleItem ) ) {
          printf( "Error: pyFuncWhichReadsDevice() returned tuple with 
non-int value" );
          exit( 1 );
       }
       my_c_array[i] = (unsigned char) PyInt_AsLong( tupleItem );
    }
}
...

    I have no idea if this will work for you since I haven't even tried 
to compile it...consider it pseudo-code.

-Rick.


youngdubliner at hotmail.com wrote:
> Hi All , 
> 
> Bit of a problem with Py_Parse or Py_ParseTuple ? 
> 
> I have a python script that reads a sector of flash in an embedded device. 
> it returns the value of each byte within the sector as a tuple. 
> 
> i.e. [255,255,255,255,255,255,255, .......etc etc for the whole sector ! 
> 
> We are using this script to read whats currently in any sector. 
> No problems there.  
> 
> Now I need to call our script from C. 
> 
> I want to copy each of the bytes within the sector into an C unsigned char *array
> 
> Is there any way to do this using Py_ParseTuple or Py_Parse ???
> 
> something like this for instance ??? ...... 
> 
> Py_ParseTuple[pres,"??",&my_c_array]
> 
> so now my_c_array[0] = 255 ,my_c_array[1] = 255 ,my_c_array[2] = 255 , etc etc 
> 
> 
> Thanks for the help !



From elainejackson7355 at home.com  Wed Apr  7 16:15:26 2004
From: elainejackson7355 at home.com (Elaine Jackson)
Date: Wed, 07 Apr 2004 20:15:26 GMT
Subject: list comprehensions
Message-ID: <yjZcc.42823$Pk3.9547@pd7tw1no>


List comprehensions don't work the way you intuitively expect them to work. I
realize many people have no intuitions about how list comprehensions 'should'
work, so if you recognize yourself in this description, feel free to go back to
whatever you were doing before. If you're still here, though, I invite you to
consider the following definition:

partitions = lambda n: [[n]]+[[k]+x for x in partitions(n-k) for k in
range(1,n)]

As defined above, the function raises an exception when you call it ('k'
referenced before assignment). For the sake of clarity, here is workable code
expressing the same intention:

def partitions(n):
    reVal=[[n]]
    for k in range(1,n):
        for x in partitions(n-k):
            reVal.append([k]+x)
    return reVal

So I guess what I want to ask is: Can somebody explain the semantics of list
comprehensions to me? Or even better: Can somebody tell me where to look in the
documentation to find out about list comprehensions? All donations gratefully
received.

Peace




From bokr at oz.net  Thu Apr 22 14:42:58 2004
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 22 Apr 2004 18:42:58 GMT
Subject: Convert hexadecimal string to binary
References: <b0457a31.0404220706.65a7735c@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <c693ni$pd6$0@216.39.172.122>

On 22 Apr 2004 08:06:26 -0700, ekoome at yahoo.com (Eric) wrote:

>Guys,
>I have the following hexadecimal string - '\xff\xff\xff' which i need
>to convert to binary.
>
>How would i go about doing this?
>
Assuming that string is the representation of a string of bytes whose binary
values are 255 (or hex 0xff), and you want to view it like a big-endian
number representation, and convert it to an integer (or long, if it gets big),

 >>> def s2i(s): return sum([ord(c)*256**i for i,c in enumerate(s[::-1])])
 ...
 >>> s2i('\xff\xff\xff')
 16777215
 >>> hex(s2i('\xff\xff\xff'))
 '0xffffff'
 >>> hex(s2i('\x01\x02\x03'))
 '0x10203'
 >>> hex(s2i('\x01\x02\x03\x04'))
 '0x1020304'
 >>> hex(s2i('\x01\x02\x03\x04\x05'))
'0x102030405L'
 >>> hex(s2i('\x01\x02'))
 '0x102'
 >>> s2i('\x01\x02')
 258

Note that this is unsigned --

 >>> hex(s2i('\xff\xff\xff\xff'))
 '0xFFFFFFFFL'
 >>> hex(s2i('\x80\x00\x00\x00'))
 '0x80000000L'

You could do it other and faster ways...

Regards,
Bengt Richter


From lbates at swamisoft.com  Thu Apr 15 17:44:07 2004
From: lbates at swamisoft.com (Larry Bates)
Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2004 16:44:07 -0500
Subject: newbie question
References: <Xns94CCA389D3DA0plasticnospamplsxsin@216.77.188.18>
	<c5mtsl$dns$2@absinth.dialog.net.pl>
	<Xns94CCA82D89C84plasticnospamplsxsin@216.77.188.18>
Message-ID: <0JWdnRgNsdm7n-Ld4p2dnA@comcast.com>

sdata may have additional characters in it.  If so,
there is no way it will ever equal "kill".  You
might want something like:

if sdata.startswith("kill"): s.close()

assuming that kill will be at the front of the data
stream of 1024 characters.

Larry Bates
Syscon, Inc.

"jeff" <plastic"no-spam-pls"@xsintrk.net> wrote in message
news:Xns94CCA82D89C84plasticnospamplsxsin at 216.77.188.18...
> Krzysztof Stachlewski <stach at fr.USUN.pl> wrote in
> news:c5mtsl$dns$2 at absinth.dialog.net.pl:
>
> > jeff wrote:
> >
> >> ex:
> >>
> >> a = "text str"
> >> if a == "text str": print a
> >>
> >> why doesn't that work?  i couldn't find much help about variable
> >> types in the manual, does it need a property like a.text?
> >
> > It works - at least on my computer.
> > That is: it prints "text str" to the console.
> > What did you expect it to do?
> >
> ok this is the bit i'm working with, i'm tinkering with sockets.
> when the recieved text == kill, i want the socket to close.  actually, the
> example i posted worked for me too, but i don't understand why this
> doesn't.
>
> while 1:
> sdata = s.recv(1024)
> if not sdata: break
> if sdata == "kill": s.close()
> print "Recieved:", sdata




From theller at python.net  Wed Apr 28 15:12:44 2004
From: theller at python.net (Thomas Heller)
Date: Wed, 28 Apr 2004 21:12:44 +0200
Subject: wxpython + py2exe + innosetup
References: <408eca0c$1@newsflash.abo.fi>
	<30260531.0404272030.3fe52362@posting.google.com>
	<ab4c5633.0404280346.19520bbc@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3c6nor0z.fsf@python.net>

sdahlbac at abo.fi (Simon Dahlbacka) writes:

> simoninusa2001 at yahoo.co.uk (simo) wrote in message news:<30260531.0404272030.3fe52362 at posting.google.com>...
>> "Simon Dahlbacka" <sdahlbacSPAMSUX at abo.fi> wrote:
>> 
>> > I'm "exefying" an application that uses wxpython, some com to control excel
>> > and word and want to distribute this application.
>> > 
>> > after creating the executable with py2exe, it still works fine (at least on
>> > my development machine), however, if I create an installer package with
>> > innosetup, install it and try to run it, I get a busy cursor for a split
>> > second and then.. nothing. no errors no traceback no nothing.. viewing
>> > dependencies does not reveal anything strange, and running the installed
>> > program in a debugger just tells that the application has exited with code
>> > 0.

> another strange thing is that I tried to sprinkle "print I got here
> statements" all over the place, but didn't see any of those, even
> running from a console.

If you build it as windows program (not console), sys.stderr is
redirected to a logfile, and sys.stdout is redirected into the eternal
bitsink.  This is to prevent IO errors in your debug print statements,
or when tracebacks are printed.  The code which does this is in
py2exe/boot_common.py for your inspection and/or improvements.

You can also override this default behaviour by assigning your own
objects to sys.stdout and sys.stderr.

Unfortunately, this very code in py2exe 0.5.0 has a bug, which will be
triggered when the sys module is *not* imported in your main script (the
'sys' symbol is deleted too early in boot_common.py).

So, it could be that your program tries to report something, and then
'crashes' (meaning: fails to initialize).

I will release py2exe 0.5.1 later this week, which should have fixed
this and other bugs ;-).


What I usually do to find out why a program behaves strange, is to build
both a console *and* a windows version (with different names, say
app_c.exe and app.exe).  Then, you can (even on the target machine) run
the console version to see the debug prints, and after you have found
and fixed potential problems, run the windows version and delete the
console version again.  Or you simply don't create a shortcut for the
console version.

Hope that helps,

Thomas





From duncan-news at grisby.org  Wed Apr 28 10:47:03 2004
From: duncan-news at grisby.org (Duncan Grisby)
Date: Wed, 28 Apr 2004 16:47:03 +0200
Subject: omniorb, python and callbacks
References: <108qul5he6cn1ba@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <42b2$408fc3e7$51604868$16406@nf3.news-service-com>

In article <108qul5he6cn1ba at corp.supernews.com>,
 Melissa Wallis <mwallis at swri.org> wrote:

>I have a class with 5 callbacks.  Two of the callbacks work fine but the
>others don't.  The main difference is that the callbacks that don't work are
>composed of a sequence of structs.  I noticed a comment about this same
>problem on the web but no solution was noted. What makes the callbacks with
>the sequences so different?  It seems that when one of the callbacks with a
>sequence  is called it just hangs.  I am talking to a TAO orb from omniORB.

I suggest you subscribe and post to the omniORB mailing list rather
than here. When you post, please give some details about what exactly
you are doing, and what exactly goes wrong. Have you tried running
omniORB with some tracing turned on?

Cheers,

Duncan.

-- 
 -- Duncan Grisby         --
  -- duncan at grisby.org     --
   -- http://www.grisby.org --


From claird at lairds.com  Sat Apr  3 05:39:41 2004
From: claird at lairds.com (Cameron Laird)
Date: Sat, 03 Apr 2004 10:39:41 -0000
Subject: simple popen question
References: <mailman.294.1080958697.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<1080965541.46978@yasure>
Message-ID: <106t53d7spbgr3d@corp.supernews.com>

In article <1080965541.46978 at yasure>, Donn Cave <donn at drizzle.com> wrote:
>Quoth Jim Benson <jbenson at sextans.lowell.edu>:
>| On Fri, 2 Apr 2004, Cameron Laird wrote:
>...
>|> In general, no; the reader doesn't control the buffering, the writer does.
>|
>| The reason i suspect popen is that when i run
>| the executable from the unix shell...i see every
>| output line ~ when expected. 
>
>Well, the writer knows.  When you run it "from the shell", that
>really means its output device is /dev/tty.  When you run it from
>popen(), its output device is a pipe.  C library I/O, and hence
>most application I/O, automatically treats these two devices
>differently.  Or rather, it treats the tty specially, and treats
>a pipe like any other file.  For the tty it uses line buffering,
>for everything else block buffering.
>
>There's a function that changes the policy - setbuffer I think may
>be the contemporary standard, I think setbuf and setvbuf are historical
>but don't count on me to get that straight.
>
>	Donn Cave, donn at drizzle.com

All true--and Python even has an answer, Pexpect, for those stuck
with such subtleties.  I repeat my advice, though, that Mr. Benson
will likeliest find quick satisfaction simply by having his writer
flush on newline.

Also, Mr. Benson, are you *sure* you want to treat blank lines as
end-of-message markers?
-- 

Cameron Laird <claird at phaseit.net>
Business:  http://www.Phaseit.net


From hans at zephyrfalcon.org  Fri Apr  9 15:54:48 2004
From: hans at zephyrfalcon.org (Hans Nowak)
Date: Fri, 09 Apr 2004 15:54:48 -0400
Subject: module not callable - why not?
In-Reply-To: <c56jph$rrk$05$1@news.t-online.com>
References: <c56jph$rrk$05$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <4076FF88.70504@zephyrfalcon.org>

Diez B. Roggisch wrote:

> Now I thought about defining a __call__ operator at module level to allow
> this:
> 
> import quaternion
> 
> q = quaternion()
> 
> 
> where the call looks like this:
> 
> def __call__(*a, *kw):
>     return quaternion()
> 
> But that doesn't work. 
> 
> Now my question is: Is there a way to make a module callable that way? And
> wouldn't it make sense to allow the implementation of a call operator on
> module level?

Is is possible, if you use packages, and are willing to use some evil hackery. 
:-)  Here's what to do:

1. Create a package 'quaternion'.

2. Create quaternion/__init__.py:

# quaternion/__init__.py

from types import ModuleType
import os, sys

class QuaternionModule(ModuleType):
     def __init__(self):
         import _quaternion
         self.__name__ = "_quaternion proxy"
         self.__file__ = __file__
         self.__base = os.path.dirname(__file__)
         self.__module = sys.modules['quaternion']

     def __call__(self):
         return _quaternion.quaternion()

sys.modules['quaternion'] = QuaternionModule()
del sys, os, ModuleType, QuaternionModule

3. Create quaternion/_quaternion.py:

# _quaternion.py

class quaternion:
     def foo(self, x):
         return x*2

(obviously a dummy implementation, but you get the idea)

4. Test it:

Python 2.3.3 (#51, Dec 18 2003, 20:22:39) [MSC v.1200 32 bit (Intel)] on win32
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
 >>> import quaternion
 >>> q = quaternion()
 >>> q.foo(42)
84
 >>>

To be fair, this is an adaptation of some code sent to me by Olivier Poyen.  It 
was originally a construct to add dynamic import to my Wax library (which 
currently imports a bunch of modules in its __init__.py, taking up time and 
space, whether you use them or not).

Now, whether this good coding practice is something else entirely... :-)

Cheers,

-- 
Hans (hans at zephyrfalcon.org)
http://zephyrfalcon.org/





From jbperez808 at wahoo.com  Tue Apr 27 04:36:18 2004
From: jbperez808 at wahoo.com (Jon Perez)
Date: 27 Apr 2004 08:36:18 GMT
Subject: CPU usage of Python interpreter doing empty while loop under XP
References: <c6kogu$cvgah$1@ID-180326.news.uni-berlin.de>
	<7kpr805ou6g8ucm9rok4nodkolcp02viig@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <c6l61u$d0o8n$1@ID-180326.news.uni-berlin.de>

Dennis Lee Bieber wrote:

> Stick a sleep(0) inside it, and no doubt you will see performance 
> return to "normal". Even though the 0 means no actual delay is wanted, 
> the task swap will occur, giving the OS a chance to respond to events.

Great, it worked.

So 

while 1: sleep(0)

is a better alternative to

while 1: pass


(I'm using this for debugging purposes...)


From nicolas.lehuen at thecrmcompany.com  Wed Apr 21 06:36:22 2004
From: nicolas.lehuen at thecrmcompany.com (Nicolas Lehuen)
Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2004 12:36:22 +0200
Subject: Python 2.3.3 super() behaviour
References: <40863bd7$0$25528$afc38c87@news.easynet.fr>
	<c65fbo$1q4$05$1@news.t-online.com>
	<40864674$0$24834$afc38c87@news.easynet.fr>
Message-ID: <40864ea6$0$25528$afc38c87@news.easynet.fr>

The only problem I have is that I want to build a multiple inheritance
involving an object which does not cooperate, namely :

class T(object):
    def __init__(self):
        super(T,self).__init__()

class  TL(list,object):
    def __init__(self)
        super(TL,self).__init__()

In this case, T.__init__ is not called, because list.__init__ does not use
super(). The only clean way to proceed is to change the inheritance order :
TL(T,list). This way, both constructors are called.

Here is another example which exhibits the behaviour :

class A(object):
    def __init__(self):
        super(A,self).__init__()
        print 'A'

class B(object):
    def __init__(self):
        print 'B'

class C(B,A):
    def __init__(self):
        super(C,self).__init__()
        print 'C'

class D(A,B):
    def __init__(self):
        super(D,self).__init__()
        print 'D'

>>> C()
B
C
<__main__.C object at 0x008F3D70>
>>> D()
B
A
D
<__main__.D object at 0x008F39F0>

The problem is that if you go further down the inheritance, the behaviour is
even more complicated :

class E(object):
    def __init__(self):
        super(E,self).__init__()
        print 'E'

class F(C,E):
    def __init__(self):
        super(F,self).__init__()
        print 'F'

class G(D,E):
    def __init__(self):
        super(G,self).__init__()
        print 'G'

>>> F()
B
C
F
<__main__.F object at 0x008F3D70>
>>> G()
B
A
D
G
<__main__.G object at 0x008F3EF0>

class H(E,C):
    def __init__(self):
        super(H,self).__init__()
        print 'H'

class I(E,D):
    def __init__(self):
        super(I,self).__init__()
        print 'I'

>>> H()
B
C
E
H
<__main__.H object at 0x008F3E30>
>>> I()
B
A
D
E
I
<__main__.I object at 0x008F3FD0>

So the conclusion is : never do that :). Another more constructive
conclusion would be : always put the most cooperative classes first in the
inheritance declaration, provided that it doesn't interfere with your needs.
A class which has an uncooperative ancestor is less cooperative than a class
which has only cooperative ancestors.

Regards,
Nicolas

"Nicolas Lehuen" <nicolas.lehuen at thecrmcompany.com> a ?crit dans le message
de news:40864674$0$24834$afc38c87 at news.easynet.fr...
> OK, I get it now, thanks.
>
> super() method calls should only be used for method involved in
> diamond-shaped inheritance. This is logical since in this case the base
> classe (from which the diamond-shaped inheritance starts) defines the
> interface of the method.
>
> This solves another question I was asking myself about super() : "how can
it
> work when the method signature differ between B and C ?". Answer : the
> method signature should not change because polymorphic calls would be
> greatly endangered. The base class defines the signature of the method
which
> must be followed by all its children, this way super() can work properly.
>
> The base method signature is not enforced by Python, of course, but you'd
> better respect it unless you get weird result in polymorphic calls.
>
> Regards,
> Nicolas
>
> "Peter Otten" <__peter__ at web.de> a ?crit dans le message de
> news:c65fbo$1q4$05$1 at news.t-online.com...
> > Nicolas Lehuen wrote:
> >
> > > Hi,
> > >
> > > I hope this is not a FAQ, but I have trouble understanding the
behaviour
> > > of the super() built-in function. I've read the excellent book 'Python
> in
> > > a Nutshell' which explains this built-in function on pages 89-90.
Based
> on
> > > the example on page 90, I wrote this test code :
> > >
> > > class A(object):
> > >     def test(self):
> > >         print 'A'
> > >
> > > class B(object):
> > >     def test(self):
> > >         print 'B'
> > >
> > > class C(A,B):
> > >     def test(self):
> > >         super(C,self).test()
> > >         print 'C'
> > >
> > > print C.__mro__
> > > c=C()
> > > c.test()
> > >
> > > The output is :
> > > (<class '__main__.C'>, <class '__main__.A'>, <class '__main__.B'>,
<type
> > > 'object'>)
> > > A
> > > C
> > >
> > > Whereas I was expecting :
> > > (<class '__main__.C'>, <class '__main__.A'>, <class '__main__.B'>,
<type
> > > 'object'>)
> > > A
> > > B
> > > C
> > >
> > > Was I wrong to expect this (based on what I've read ?)
> >
> > As soon as a test() method without the super(...).test() is reached, no
> > further test methods will be invoked. Only the first in the list of base
> > classes will be invoked. If I'm getting it right you have to do
something
> > like:
> >
> > class Base(object):
> >     def test(self):
> >         print "base"
> >
> > class D1(Base):
> >     def test(self):
> >         super(D1, self).test()
> >         print "derived 1"
> >
> > class D2(Base):
> >     def test(self):
> >         super(D2, self).test()
> >         print "derived 2"
> >
> > class All(D1, D2):
> >     pass
> >
> > All().test()
> >
> > Here all cooperating methods have a super() call, and the base class
acts
> as
> > a showstopper to prevent that Python tries to invoke the non-existent
> > object.test().
> >
> > Peter
> >
> >
> >
>
>




From rmanx at gmx.de  Thu Apr  1 08:13:04 2004
From: rmanx at gmx.de (Robert)
Date: Thu, 1 Apr 2004 15:13:04 +0200
Subject: Don't understand wxPython event handling
References: <c4h08g$fok$1@news.mch.sbs.de>
Message-ID: <c4h4gv$1g5$1@news.mch.sbs.de>

I also have anouther question:

which is the better way to register to events:
eventManager.Register(self.OnPageDone,EVT_PAGE_DONE,self.pageContainer)

or

EVT_PAGE_DONE(self, self.OnPageDone)




From grzegorz at ee.ualberta.ca  Sat Apr 17 13:59:16 2004
From: grzegorz at ee.ualberta.ca (Grzegorz Dostatni)
Date: Sat, 17 Apr 2004 13:59:16 -0400
Subject: Static Modules...
In-Reply-To: <FqqdncyMu53JHBzdRVn-vg@powergate.ca>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0404171006210.27811-100000@e5-05.ee.ualberta.ca>
	<Xns94CECB9B070C3cliechtigmxnet@62.2.16.4>
	<Pine.LNX.4.44.0404171238540.29550-100000@e5-05.ee.ualberta.ca>
	<FqqdncyMu53JHBzdRVn-vg@powergate.ca>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0404171341340.29550-100000@e5-05.ee.ualberta.ca>


On Sat, 17 Apr 2004, Peter Hansen wrote:

> That's not entirely accurate, I think.  With static typing, you
> can't even use a variable if you don't predefine it, but predefining
> it doesn't necessarily give it a value (or it gives it a benign
> default value).  With dynamic typing, just asking for a variable
> doesn't (normally) magically create one with an appropriate value.

Consider this imaginary python code:

asdf.hello()

The problem is that we don't know what asdf is. It could be a module, an
object or even a function (eg.

>>> def asdf(a="Hello", b="World"):
...     print (a,b)
...
>>> asdf.hello = asdf

) # closing the (eg.
My claim here is that we don't "magically" create the variable. You are
still required to explicitly ask for it (as in sys.setrecursionlimit -
you're asking for sys), BUT that statement is based on a fact that I KNOW
what sys is - a module. I think that is the root of this discussion. And
no, I don't like the idea of changing syntax to accomodate it ;-)

> This hack is a cool idea for interactive prompts, but in real
> code and even at the prompt it could actually be quite "dangerous".
> Importing a module can cause arbitrary code to execute, so it
> makes some sense to _require_ the import statement.

I somewhat agree with this. It is definitely a good idea to require
imports of custom modules. It is quite easy to add that check into the
code. This is a great hack for the interactive mode.

> After all, what if I had a module called, perhaps inappropriately,
> "launch" and it triggered the launch of my personal anti-aircraft
> missile when imported?  (Yes, bad style too, but I wrote this
> control code long ago before I learned good style. ;-)  Now in
> one of my other modules, I have a subtle bug** which involves an
> object named, perhaps unsurprisingly for this example, "launch".
>
> The code looks like this actually (pulled right out of the source
> tree!), slightly edited to preserve national security:
>
> def checkLaunchPermission(self):
>      lunch = self.findLaunchController()
>      if launch.inhibited:
>          # code that doesn't launch anything...
>
> Now if I understand it properly, when your hack is in place
> this would actually import the launch module and cause all hell
> to break loose.

Hmm.. In the interest of continual survival of human race I could include
a warning whenever including a module.  Or perhaps make the binding to
sys.excepthook explicit (an extra statement), but extra statements is what
I want to avoid. Another options would be to make this work *ONLY* for
system libraries (sys,os,os.path,popen, etc.).

One thing I can't get out of my head is that if your launch module is
installed in PYTHONPATH, we're all in danger and should probably seek
cover. Isn't it more likely that launch.py is somewhere deep under
"NSA/development/python/missile" directory? So it should not be imported
automatically. Generally only the system library and custom modules to the
project you're working on are available to be imported.


> Did I just make a case for static typing with Python?  Well,
> perhaps, but only in the relatively dangerous area of module
> imports and there, unlike with simple variable names, Python
> already requires explicit (i.e. static) definitions...
>
> -Peter
>

Greg



From david at rebirthing.co.nz  Fri Apr 23 02:48:49 2004
From: david at rebirthing.co.nz (David McNab)
Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2004 18:48:49 +1200
Subject: ANN: PyBison - high-performance Python Parser
Message-ID: <4088BC51.40208@rebirthing.co.nz>

Hi,

Announcing PyBison, a framework for writing high-performance, full 
LALR(1) parsers in Python, which automatically create and hook in to 
Bison/Yacc-generated C parser code.

http://www.freenet.org.nz/python/pybison

Same genre as packages like PLY, YAPPS etc.

Users write a Parser class in Python. Upon instantiation of that class, 
the parent class loads (or generates) a shared library file containing 
the parser-specific C yyparse() code for the parser. The generation 
process automatically introspects the user's class, extracting 
grammar/lexer definitions from docstrings and attributes, creating .y 
and .l files, compiling these and linking these to the shared lib. All 
done automagically in the background.

At the price of depending on the presence of a C compiler/linker, Python 
development libs/headers, Pyrex, plus bison and flex, PyBison delivers a 
parser framework offering the ease and comfort of Python, with the raw 
power and (most of) the speed of the raw C parser tools.

Release status: Alpha, version 0.1.1

Distribution includes examples, walkthrough document and API reference.

Bug reports, requests, patches etc, please send to me.

Enjoy

Cheers
David



From sadplanet at MAPS.chello.be  Sat Apr 24 07:11:22 2004
From: sadplanet at MAPS.chello.be (mr.happy)
Date: Sat, 24 Apr 2004 11:11:22 GMT
Subject: walking a list
References: <pan.2004.04.23.18.10.31.541085@MAPS.chello.be>
	<mailman.972.1082744511.20120.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <pan.2004.04.24.11.10.36.865424@MAPS.chello.be>

On Fri, 23 Apr 2004 13:21:43 -0500, Jeff Epler wrote:

>         if isinstance(i, list): print_or_recurse(i)

great! thanks, i didn't know 'isinstance' existed.
what i did was the following:

	if 'list' in str(type(list)):

it worked as well :)

-- 
One monk said to the other, "The fish has flopped out of the net! How will it
live?" The other said, "When you have gotten out of the net, I'll tell you."



From OlafMeding at compuserve.com  Wed Apr 28 16:15:02 2004
From: OlafMeding at compuserve.com (Olaf Meding)
Date: 28 Apr 2004 13:15:02 -0700
Subject: COM, IDL, and enum
Message-ID: <9e5ea2c4.0404281215.25a0f9b3@posting.google.com>

How do I access the values of the enum "ERLockStatus" specified in the
(abreviated IDL) file below?

This code works fine and lets me call the methods of the user
interface.
  import win32com.client
  ui = win32com.client.Dispatch('ERFile.User')
  ui.someMethod()


Here is the (abreviated) IDL file:
// This file will be processed by the MIDL tool to
// produce the type library (ERFile.tlb) and marshalling code.

import "oaidl.idl";
import "ocidl.idl";

[
  uuid(bf79b6c5-47be-11d2-bacd-006008060a3a),
  version(1.0),
  helpstring("ERFile 1.0 Type Library")
]
library ERFile
{
  importlib("stdole32.tlb");
  importlib("stdole2.tlb");

  [
    object,
    uuid(bf79b6c7-47be-11d2-bacd-006008060a3a),
    dual,
    helpstring("IERecord Interface"),
    pointer_default(unique),
    nonextensible,
    hidden
  ]
  interface IUser : IDispatch { code deleted here };


  [helpstring("ER Lock Status")]
  enum ERLockStatus { 
    ls_unlocked, ls_by_caller, ls_by_another, ls_not_locked
  };

  more code deleted here

};


Thanks much in advance for your help.

Olaf


From jonas at jonasgalvez.com  Wed Apr 21 12:31:38 2004
From: jonas at jonasgalvez.com (Jonas Galvez)
Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2004 13:31:38 -0300
Subject: Regex'ing null bytes
References: <c64nve$kut$1@sea.gmane.org> <c665ct$vkl$2@sea.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <c667or$77e$1@sea.gmane.org>

> [Fredrik Lundh]
> the "pre" (pcre) engine doesn't support null bytes in pattern
> strings, but it does understand octal escapes.
>
> in other words, use double backslashes, or an "r" string:
>
>     "\\000"
>     r"\0"
>
> </F>


As I said, I'm not going to use regexes anymore, but... good to know!

Thanks a lot for the info.





=-
Jonas Galvez
jonasgalvez.com/blog
macromedia.com/go/team







From xiaohua_sun at yahoo.com  Mon Apr  5 01:46:05 2004
From: xiaohua_sun at yahoo.com (SunX)
Date: 4 Apr 2004 22:46:05 -0700
Subject: write data file
Message-ID: <337e6cd5.0404042146.6e39153c@posting.google.com>

Question from a newbie.  How do you write out a data file of floating
point numbers? file.write only takes strings.
Many thanks.


From paul at prescod.net  Sat Apr  3 18:07:55 2004
From: paul at prescod.net (Paul Prescod)
Date: Sat, 03 Apr 2004 15:07:55 -0800
Subject: Pyrex list is down
Message-ID: <406F43CB.9030505@prescod.net>

It seems like nothing has gone in or out for days:

http://lists.copyleft.no/pipermail/pyrex/2004-April/thread.html

  Paul Prescod





From skip at pobox.com  Fri Apr 23 15:49:43 2004
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2004 14:49:43 -0500
Subject: Best way to add attributes to shelved objects?
In-Reply-To: <20040423193951.GC27351@dogma.freebsd-uk.eu.org>
References: <20040423193951.GC27351@dogma.freebsd-uk.eu.org>
Message-ID: <16521.29527.356495.151656@montanaro.dyndns.org>


    jm> I'm working on an app that persists a few classes with shelve.  But
    jm> if I load older saved classes, I get an exception in code that uses
    jm> the new attributes, of course.

    jm> What is the best way to load these older classes, check for the new
    jm> attributes, and add them so they will work with the new code?

Why not check for those attributes in your __getstate__ method and add
default (or computed) values for any missing attributes?

Skip



From nmkolev at uni-bonn.de  Wed Apr 21 15:19:45 2004
From: nmkolev at uni-bonn.de (Nickolay Kolev)
Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2004 21:19:45 +0200
Subject: Optimizing a text statistics function
In-Reply-To: <c669k5$c52$07$1@news.t-online.com>
References: <c661pe$tie$1@f1node01.rhrz.uni-bonn.de>
	<c669k5$c52$07$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <c66hfj$uum$1@f1node01.rhrz.uni-bonn.de>

Peter Otten wrote:

Thanks for taking the time to rewrite the whole thing. I will try to 
work through it as I do not understand what you are doing most of the 
time there.

> Speed is not that important most of the time.

Agreed. I am not looking for a magical solution that will shave some 
time off at the price of using things I do not understand and/or are not 
readable.

> You might consider switching to 4-space indent.

Not wanting to start a flame here (this is probably a much discussed 
topic): why? I write in VIM and use tabs. The default representation 
width of the tab char there is 8 spaces. If I do get many, many nested 
blocks, I could just set it to a lower width, no?

Nicky


From mwh at python.net  Fri Apr 23 06:32:35 2004
From: mwh at python.net (Michael Hudson)
Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2004 10:32:35 GMT
Subject: bytecode JUMP_IF_* always followed by POP_TOP?
References: <mailman.931.1082668771.20120.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <m3brljnfwc.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk>

"Robert Brewer" <fumanchu at amor.org> writes:

> Tim Peters wrote:
> > [Robert Brewer]
> > > Playing around with bytecodes some more:
> > > ...
> > > I notice that, whether JUMP_IF_FALSE jumps or not, the next
> > > instruction it executes is POP_TOP
> > > ...
> > > Are there any constructions whereby this does not happen for
> > > JUMP_IF_FALSE and JUMP_IF_TRUE?
> > 
> > Try
> > 
> >     x and y
> > 
> > and
> > 
> >     x or y
> > 
> > When those jump, they want to retain the tested value, so 
> > there's no POP_TOP
> > at the branch target then.
> 
> Ah. They only POP_TOP if they *don't* jump. Got it. Thanks!

I think you may want to play around with chained comparisons, too,
IIRC.  We Have Been Here Before :-)

Cheers,
mwh

-- 
  The above comment may be extremely inflamatory. For your
  protection, it has been rot13'd twice.
                           -- the signature of "JWhitlock" on slashdot


From alloydflanagan at comcast.net  Fri Apr 23 09:32:23 2004
From: alloydflanagan at comcast.net (A. Lloyd Flanagan)
Date: 23 Apr 2004 06:32:23 -0700
Subject: Python use large scale projects
References: <47fc6058.0404212327.24163290@posting.google.com>
	<aKydnV3AIssWThrdRVn-gg@comcast.com>
Message-ID: <e838aa6e.0404230532.27baf940@posting.google.com>

"Larry Bates" <lbates at swamisoft.com> wrote in message news:<aKydnV3AIssWThrdRVn-gg at comcast.com>...
> 
> The ONLY knock I have against Python is in developing
> pure GUI applications.  My business partner is a
> PowerBuilder developer.  For pure GUI applications he
> finds PowerBuilder superior to Python (actually this
> is something that I cannot argue against), but he

For what it's worth, I've had pretty good results so far with
wxPython.  There's a visual development environment called Boa
Constructor that I'm not completely sold on, but then it's still in
development.


From mcfletch at rogers.com  Sat Apr 10 20:40:01 2004
From: mcfletch at rogers.com (Mike C. Fletcher)
Date: Sat, 10 Apr 2004 20:40:01 -0400
Subject: new-style class instance check
In-Reply-To: <c5a23h$geb$1@apollon.grec.isp.9tel.net>
References: <mailman.516.1081639807.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<c5a23h$geb$1@apollon.grec.isp.9tel.net>
Message-ID: <407893E1.5030408@rogers.com>

Richard Gruet wrote:

>Robert
>
>Thank you for your suggestion.
>But unfortunately, isNewStyleClassInstance(o) must return False for
>*everything but* an instance of a new-style class. If o is e.g. a function:
>def foo(): pass
>foo.__class__.rmo
><built-in method mro of type object at 0x1E0BA9E0>
>
>so isNewStyleClassInstance(foo) would return True !
>  
>
Your problem is that you are using "new style class" to describe what 
you want, and "new style classes" are all over Python, with methods, 
strings, lists, etceteras all being new-style classes in the "proper" 
sense of the term.  So, the canonical "is it a new style class instance" 
function:

def isNewStyleClassInstance( obj ):
    try:
        return isNewStyleClass( obj.__class__ )
    except AttributeError:
        return False
def isNewStyleClass( cls ):
    return isinstance( cls, type )

is going to fail your test because all sorts of things that *you* don't 
consider classes are going to be considered new-style classes (e.g. 
list, tuple, str, and functions) even though they really *are* new-style 
classes.

So, your challenge is to define what *you* mean by new-style classes (as 
distinct from what everyone else means), possibly "new-style but not in 
the built-in module":

def isRichardsNewStyle( obj ):
    return isNewStyleClassInstance( obj ) and type(obj).__module__ != 
'__builtin__'

but that wouldn't catch array.ArrayType and the like which are coded in 
C but not stored in the builtins module.

I'm guessing what you're looking for is "everything that would have had 
a type InstanceType in Python 2.1 and before", but I don't have time to 
track down all the little corner cases for how to implement that, and 
I'd guess you'll find that there's better ways to accomplish what you 
want than using it anyway.  Type-class unification has forever blurred 
the line between class and type, and coding as if it hadn't is just 
going to cause pain IMO.

Good luck,
Mike

_______________________________________
  Mike C. Fletcher
  Designer, VR Plumber, Coder
  http://members.rogers.com/mcfletch/





From hungjunglu at yahoo.com  Mon Apr 19 13:08:41 2004
From: hungjunglu at yahoo.com (Hung Jung Lu)
Date: 19 Apr 2004 10:08:41 -0700
Subject: module not callable - why not?
References: <c56jph$rrk$05$1@news.t-online.com>
	<c5tef0$5hf$1@news.service.uci.edu>
	<7xsmf1fxd9.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<8ef9bea6.0404180956.cd1a152@posting.google.com>
	<c5ultg$ss9$1@panix2.panix.com>
Message-ID: <8ef9bea6.0404190908.4b130d57@posting.google.com>

aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz) wrote in message news:<c5ultg$ss9$1 at panix2.panix.com>...
> In article <8ef9bea6.0404180956.cd1a152 at posting.google.com>,
> Hung Jung Lu <hungjunglu at yahoo.com> wrote:
> >
> >(i) For getting attributes by string names, for attributes of
> >instances you do getattr(self, 'name'), for module attributes you do
> >globals()['name']. I mention this because every once a month or so a
> >newbie would ask how to get module level attributes by name.
> 
> That's not the only answer, and it's not the one I use:
> 
>     import foo
>     getattr(foo, 'name')

You can't do this when you are inside the module itself. Similarly,
unless I am inside a class, I wouldn't use getattr(self, 'name'). I
was comparing apple to apple. You gave me an orange. :)

Hung Jung


From SeeBelow at SeeBelow.Nut  Tue Apr 27 13:52:09 2004
From: SeeBelow at SeeBelow.Nut (SeeBelow at SeeBelow.Nut)
Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2004 17:52:09 GMT
Subject: Tkinter vs. wxPython?
Message-ID: <408E9DCA.EC753FE6@shaw.ca>

Do many people think that wxPython should replace Tkinter?  Is this
likely to happen?

I ask because I have just started learning Tkinter, and I wonder if I
should abandon it in favor of wxPython.  

Mitchell Timin

-- 
"Many are stubborn in pursuit of the path they have chosen, few in
pursuit of the goal." - Friedrich Nietzsche

http://annevolve.sourceforge.net is what I'm into nowadays.
Humans may write to me at this address: zenguy at shaw dot ca


From project5 at redrival.net  Tue Apr 27 14:37:34 2004
From: project5 at redrival.net (Andrei)
Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2004 20:37:34 +0200
Subject: Tkinter vs. wxPython?
References: <408E9DCA.EC753FE6@shaw.ca>
Message-ID: <71thmlf6m3tv.fk5ufa40nrow.dlg@40tude.net>

SeeBelow at SeeBelow.Nut wrote on Tue, 27 Apr 2004 17:52:09 GMT:

> Do many people think that wxPython should replace Tkinter?  Is this
> likely to happen?

>From my POV it would be a good idea since I don't use Tkinter/Tkinter apps
but I do use wxPython. However, I don't think it will happen because things
out of the standard distro don't get phased out that easily; programs count
on Tkinter being there. Plus Idle would have to be removed as well, which
is not very likely to happen since it's the standard Python IDE :).

> I ask because I have just started learning Tkinter, and I wonder if I
> should abandon it in favor of wxPython.  

If you like Tkinter, use it. If you like wxPython, use that - neither of
them shows any signs of going away in the near or not so near future. BTW,
there are several nice GUI builders for wxPython available which might be
of assistance in using wxPython. Personally I prefer wxPython and I avoid
Tk-based apps whenever I have an alternative, which is basically always :).

-- 
Yours,

Andrei

=====
Real contact info (decode with rot13):
cebwrpg5 at jnanqbb.ay. Fcnz-serr! Cyrnfr qb abg hfr va choyvp cbfgf. V ernq
gur yvfg, fb gurer'f ab arrq gb PP.


From peholmst at abo.fi  Thu Apr 15 07:07:25 2004
From: peholmst at abo.fi (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Petter_Holmstr=F6m?=)
Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2004 14:07:25 +0300
Subject: Getters and setters in python, common practise
In-Reply-To: <xfydnUmny4UrwuPd4p2dnA@powergate.ca>
References: <407e402c$1@newsflash.abo.fi> <xfydnUmny4UrwuPd4p2dnA@powergate.ca>
Message-ID: <407e6cf9@newsflash.abo.fi>

Peter Hansen wrote:
>> Having a Delphi/Object Pascal-background, I'm very used to using 
>> getters and setters when designing my classes. What is the common 
>> practise in the Python world? Should one use them or not?
> 
> Max described the common practice (don't use them until you actually
> need them) but forgot to mention that in recent versions of Python
> you can use "properties", in pretty much the same manner as Delphi
> uses them.

I have not found any documentation on this topic. Could you please point 
me to some?

-Petter-


From alloydflanagan at comcast.net  Fri Apr 23 09:28:04 2004
From: alloydflanagan at comcast.net (A. Lloyd Flanagan)
Date: 23 Apr 2004 06:28:04 -0700
Subject: Python-list, Exotic sex is urgently necessary for you!
References: <E5E3A37F16I0JC42@python.org>
	<mailman.935.1082683672.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<EY1ic.31$Ah4.7@read3.inet.fi>
Message-ID: <e838aa6e.0404230528.3f538eb9@posting.google.com>

Timo Virkkala <a at a.invalid> wrote in message news:<EY1ic.31$Ah4.7 at read3.inet.fi>...
> [disgusting content snipped]
> 
> I've heard of sex with lots of kinds of animals, but Pythons? Wouldn't 
> that be a) difficult b) VERY dangerous?
> 
> *grin*

I should think so.
Perhaps they were proposing something involving the whole list of
subscribers.  The logistics boggle the mind...


From maxm at mxm.dk  Tue Apr 20 08:01:44 2004
From: maxm at mxm.dk (Max M)
Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 14:01:44 +0200
Subject: CamelCase versus wide_names (Prothon)
In-Reply-To: <mailman.789.1082458674.20120.python-list@python.org>
References: <UHxfc.9323$dZ1.3740@fed1read04>	<6ee58e07.0404192141.2229efd6@posting.google.com>	<c62e05$6oraj$1@ID-99293.news.uni-berlin.de>	<i93hc.13733$dZ1.8818@fed1read04>
	<mailman.789.1082458674.20120.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <40851128.8000400@mxm.dk>

Gerrit wrote:

> Mark Hahn wrote:
> 
> I haven't followed the Prothon capitalization naming convention in
> detail. But in my opinion, a multi-word name should read as a multi word
> name. Underscores serve better to do so than capitalization does.

I think you should go against the tide.

Make . a normal letter.

And make _ have the function that . has in Python, so that _ and . sort 
of switches meaning.

Anybody in hteir right mind can see that, that is a good idea:


From mwh at python.net  Tue Apr 27 04:50:52 2004
From: mwh at python.net (Michael Hudson)
Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2004 08:50:52 GMT
Subject: Magic methods in extension types
References: <tyfisfnt2zd.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
	<m3isfnm1bg.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk>
	<tyfekqbt02c.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
	<m3ekqanceo.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk>
	<tyfad0yu6ma.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
Message-ID: <m3wu41x0r8.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk>

Jacek Generowicz <jacek.generowicz at cern.ch> writes:

> Michael Hudson <mwh at python.net> writes:
> 
> > Jacek Generowicz <jacek.generowicz at cern.ch> writes:
> > 
> > > Michael Hudson <mwh at python.net> writes:
> > > 
> > > > Not finding the tp_as_number->nb_inplace_add field?
> > > 
> > > ( ... or tp_as_sequence ... )
> > > 
> > > I was afraid you (someone) was going to say that.
> > 
> > Why?
> 
> Because I'm too lazy to pollute my tiny extension type with a whole
> thingy_as_number sturucture for the sake of just one maginc method :-)

If __iadd__ is the *only* magic method you're adding, you deserve to
lose...

> > Well, the type of old-style classes has something in it's
> > tp_as_number->nb_inplace_add slot that looks in the class dictionary
> > for an __iadd__ method.
> > 
> > If you'd made that a new-style class, you would be surprised!
> 
> Don't follow ... you mean if I had done this:
> 
>     >>> class foo(object):
>     ...     def __iadd__(self,other):
>     ...         print "__iadd__ running"
>     ...         return self
>     ... 
>     >>> f = foo()
>     >>> f += 2
>     __iadd__ running
> 
> ?

Yup: you've added something to a type object, something you'd said
you'd be surprised to hear.

> > > Python manages to map "+=" to the method called "__iadd__" in
> > > user-defined classes, but not for extension types. What is the
> > > essential difference that makes that mapping work in one case but
> > > not in the other?
> > 
> > Well, for old-style classes a whole bunch of code like:

[...]

> > and for new-style classes much hair in typeobject.c:type_new and
> > therein called functions.  Extension types don't go through type_new
> > and are expected to go the other way round, in a sense: define
> > something in tp_as_number->nb_inplace_add and a wrapper called
> > __iadd__ will be created for you.
> 
> Yuk.

Why?

> You are, in summary, saying that by _far_ the simplest way of adding
> __iadd__ to an extenion type is via tp_as_number->nb_inplace_add,
> aren't you.

Yes.  I'm surprised at your apparent surprise, but then I've had my
head in the guts of Python's implementation for quite some time
now... implementing types in C is really quite different from
implementing them in Python, something which has only become
surprising since 2.2...

Cheers,
mwh

-- 
  Gullible editorial staff continues to post links to any and all
  articles that vaguely criticize Linux in any way.
         -- Reason #4 for quitting slashdot today, from
            http://www.cs.washington.edu/homes/klee/misc/slashdot.html


From fredrik at pythonware.com  Fri Apr 16 06:12:16 2004
From: fredrik at pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2004 12:12:16 +0200
Subject: int('2.1') does not work while int(float('2.1')) does
References: <mailman.376.1081213637.20120.python-list@python.org><40722555.66C70D40@alcyone.com><slrnc74a1l.bqf.joe@gate.notcharles.ca><40722E98.253B5FF2@alcyone.com>
	<slrnc74t4i.ccv.joe@gate.notcharles.ca>
Message-ID: <c5obhd$2c0$1@sea.gmane.org>

Joe Mason wrote:int out of this string.
>
> So why can't int(string) mean round toward zero?

because it isn't what it means.

why so obsessed with breaking existing code?  don't you have
anything better to do with your life?

</F>






From hwlgw at hotmail.com  Thu Apr 22 12:02:04 2004
From: hwlgw at hotmail.com (Will Stuyvesant)
Date: 22 Apr 2004 09:02:04 -0700
Subject: AOP use cases
References: <84fc4588.0404140106.3fa0c55@posting.google.com>
	<slrnc7q1ss.1aa.alf@largo.fayauffre.org>
	<cb035744.0404141130.170f51c4@posting.google.com>
	<slrnc7sgat.vp.alf@largo.fayauffre.org>
	<cb035744.0404160442.2f0b1661@posting.google.com>
	<0pydnSB4WYuieuLdRVn-hQ@powergate.ca>
	<tyfbrlkv3ae.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
	<XYmdnVLB9rjbARrdRVn-vg@powergate.ca>
Message-ID: <cb035744.0404220802.5adc5a5a@posting.google.com>

> [Peter Hansen ]
>    ... I appreciate the attempt to clarify, but so far it seems to
> me that *everyone* who talks about AOP just talks in abstract terms
> and isn't willing (or able?) to pin it down with *real* real-world
> examples ...

You got it.

AOP somehow did get scientific impact in computing
science.  I had to read scientific papers about AOP and
I had to listen to AOP conference presentations.  It's
all abstract chitchat about the benefits, and then they
usually introduce yet another formalism or even
mini-language to reason about.  Formulas in ad-hoc
formalisms.  Forget about *real* real-world examples,
these people just want to get papers published.
Usability is considered of minor impportance.  They are,
with very few very rare exceptions, NOT able to show
useful code in a high level language like Python.  What
they DO show is code in Java that solves Java problems,
usually to do with the limitations imposed by the static
typing system.  It is a bad sign that so much crappy AOP
papers get accepted.  I have come to the conclusion that
AOP is nothing more than what I expect from a decent
programmer: a good, or at least reasonable, design of
software in the first place.


From fumanchu at amor.org  Thu Apr 29 11:57:12 2004
From: fumanchu at amor.org (Robert Brewer)
Date: Thu, 29 Apr 2004 08:57:12 -0700
Subject: Subclasses in Python
Message-ID: <DE1CF2B4FEC4A342BF62B6B2B334601E56207D@opus.amorhq.net>

Thomas Philips wrote:
> I ... used self.__Class__.<whatever I need to access> to access
> the class attributes in the class and subclass. Works like a charm,
> but I'm having some difficulty printing class names. I want
> self.__class__ to return just the name of the class without some
> ancillary stuff thrown in.

Try self.__class__.__name__


FuManChu



From peter at engcorp.com  Mon Apr 26 19:47:27 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2004 19:47:27 -0400
Subject: About generators
In-Reply-To: <7eoq80ph28cbjj06hp2llab8acnsh2fmnc@4ax.com>
References: <peap80pkk0c5a7d9rliq159sbaof2mu5kr@4ax.com>
	<L-6dnRq_ZvsmjBDdRVn_iw@powergate.ca>
	<7eoq80ph28cbjj06hp2llab8acnsh2fmnc@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <hs-dnaO4VPoNAhDdRVn-hQ@powergate.ca>

Andrea Griffini wrote:

> On Mon, 26 Apr 2004 09:42:18 -0400, Peter Hansen <peter at engcorp.com>
> wrote:
>>Google Groups is always helpful for such questions:
>>http://groups.google.com/groups?q=integer+range+syntax&meta=group%3Dcomp.lang.python.*
>>
>>This leads to various threads, such as the "Re: Thoughts on PEP284"
>>which had the same proposal as yours and what is, I believe, an
>>adequate reason for rejecting it.
> 
> Thanx for the pointer, but I wasn't able to find a discussion
> about the use of a "normal" range binary operator; 

You didn't read far enough.  The one I mentioned above is item
number 8 in the results from Google.  In it, Sean Ross had asked
about "for i in 0...10" and David Eppstein replies and points
out the key problem with it.

> Sure this would leave open a few problems, like how to specify
> the step (how about the BASIC "step" ? 

Yes, exactly the problem he pointed out.  He goes on to say
"If that's all the loop syntax can do, why not just keep the
current "for i in range(10):" syntax?
"Explicit is better than implicit."

And I agree with him.  Don't introduce extra syntax for trivial
gain...

-Peter


From fumanchu at amor.org  Thu Apr 22 13:37:15 2004
From: fumanchu at amor.org (Robert Brewer)
Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2004 10:37:15 -0700
Subject: Proper Way of checking for a collections class
Message-ID: <DE1CF2B4FEC4A342BF62B6B2B334601E562043@opus.amorhq.net>

Gary Coulbourne wrote:
> I've been trying to find a good idiom for testing if the input to a
> function is one of the collections classes... the best I 
> could do is this:
> 
> if hasattr(thing_to_test, '__iter__'):
>     ...

The best way depends upon (and mirrors) exactly what you want to do with
those classes. If you're going to call iter(thing), then the above is
fine. If instead you want sequences, try operator.isSequenceType,
etcetera.


FuManChu



From andrewm at object-craft.com.au  Fri Apr  2 07:51:14 2004
From: andrewm at object-craft.com.au (Andrew McNamara)
Date: Fri, 02 Apr 2004 22:51:14 +1000
Subject: Stackless Website down, Project gone, I'm dead. 
In-Reply-To: Message from Max M <maxm@mxm.dk> of "Fri,
	02 Apr 2004 14:09:54 +0200."
	<406d5800$0$206$edfadb0f@dread12.news.tele.dk> 
References: <mailman.253.1080872984.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<406d5800$0$206$edfadb0f@dread12.news.tele.dk> 
Message-ID: <20040402125114.A76893C027@coffee.object-craft.com.au>

>Christian Tismer wrote:
>> p.s.: I've taken the capsule, short time ago.
>> p.p.s.: This message was sent to you on April 2, to make
>> sure that it is not misinterpreted as a bad April 1 joke.
>> The bad joke was about that bad intruder. See you soon,
>> in heaven or somehwere else :-)
>
>If this is a joke, it is in poor taste.

And if it isn't? 

The message headers are a good match with Christian's recent postings.

I hope someone who knows Christian has been able to get in contact with
him.

-- 
Andrew McNamara, Senior Developer, Object Craft
http://www.object-craft.com.au/



From tadmc at augustmail.com  Tue Apr 27 17:52:07 2004
From: tadmc at augustmail.com (Tad McClellan)
Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2004 16:52:07 -0500
Subject: Is Perl *that* good? (was: How's ruby compare to it older
	brother python)
References: <c6ich0$c5mee$1@ID-205437.news.uni-berlin.de>
	<iL3jc.232$Yc.2330@news4.e.nsc.no>
	<108q51j4dscn7dc@corp.supernews.com>
	<knbjc.267$id.3998@news2.e.nsc.no>
	<c6jsvd$cspf4$1@ID-205437.news.uni-berlin.de>
	<v1gt80pdise5mk0b261a7b5gd1pj6vvbsl@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <slrnc8tlg7.v22.tadmc@magna.augustmail.com>

Michele Dondi <bik.mido at tiscalinet.it> wrote:
> ?On Mon, 26 Apr 2004 16:55:02 -0400, "Ruby Tuesdays"
><NoSpamPlease_rubytuzdaiz at yahoo.com> wrote:
> 
>>Would this super perl program of yours can convert the massive amount of
>>perl script to ruby or python?
>>
>>If it could, it would be great so ruby/python programmers does not have to
>>learn those cryptic perl-ish syntax and the non-OOish scripting language.
> 
> Huh?!?


Simply make a killfile entry and move on.


-- 
    Tad McClellan                          SGML consulting
    tadmc at augustmail.com                   Perl programming
    Fort Worth, Texas


From mark at prothon.org  Fri Apr 30 14:33:27 2004
From: mark at prothon.org (Mark Hahn)
Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2004 11:33:27 -0700
Subject: What is good about Prothon?
References: <bniq80hiib0gauiltuntk9jvia2getbnj4@4ax.com>
	<nxdjc.400$Qy.363@fed1read04>
	<m0ps8092jss5mhpopkbj0a4hg0m0rlppqh@4ax.com>
	<vDvjc.5555$Qy.2995@fed1read04>
	<108t2tlo06j8vb9@corp.supernews.com>
	<hzwjc.6087$Qy.2366@fed1read04>
	<69cbbef2.0404281446.4e0ab52e@posting.google.com>
	<ZHXjc.17225$Qy.13377@fed1read04>
	<69cbbef2.0404291609.72d391db@posting.google.com>
	<Awlkc.36778$Qy.19874@fed1read04>
	<69cbbef2.0404300855.4dce5e5@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <CYwkc.44066$Qy.9803@fed1read04>

has wrote:

> But to answer your question directly: no, simply adding a copy()
> operation (the "trying to please everybody, and ultimately pleasing
> no-one" strategy) won't make me happy; I have no use for another C++.

You have a very warped mind.  To say that having Python two-tier object
construction and Self-like constructs in the same language is C++ is
ludicrous.

You have finally answered a question I have asked several times.  Having
anything but AS or Self in the language will keep you from being happy.  Now
that I know where you stand I can quit wasting my time trying to get you to
help out.

You keep pitching that you are such a creative artist, but if you were you'd
be helping find a way to solve the conundrum of merging the Python and Self
worlds and making positive contributions instead of just throwing stones.




From usenet_spam at janc.invalid  Sun Apr 18 20:13:13 2004
From: usenet_spam at janc.invalid (JanC)
Date: Mon, 19 Apr 2004 00:13:13 GMT
Subject: Pygame
References: <c5jdv2$s4$1@orkan.itea.ntnu.no>
	<xZydnfgqeaiK3ODdRVn-tw@powergate.ca>
	<c5jgvh$2m5$1@orkan.itea.ntnu.no>
	<mailman.620.1081958099.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<gandreas-33F0F9.12165314042004@news.mpls.visi.com>
	<c5jt79$8m6$1@orkan.itea.ntnu.no>
	<z4GdnXzhXbzZGuDdRVn-vg@powergate.ca>
	<pan.2004.04.18.22.02.19.625997@stud.ntnu.no>
	<Xns94D0B00218E1JanC@213.119.4.35>
	<pan.2004.04.18.23.31.45.70115@stud.ntnu.no>
Message-ID: <Xns94D0169635728JanC@213.119.4.35>

Alexander R?dseth <alexanro at stud.ntnu.no> schreef:

> Besides, a huge amount of the power of Python-scripts
> comes from knowing what other people has installed already.

For most Windows users that would be: nothing, not even Python itself.

-- 
JanC

"Be strict when sending and tolerant when receiving."
RFC 1958 - Architectural Principles of the Internet - section 3.9


From grigri9 at yahoo.com  Sun Apr 18 15:37:51 2004
From: grigri9 at yahoo.com (Greg Grin)
Date: 18 Apr 2004 12:37:51 -0700
Subject: imitating user input
Message-ID: <ebd4b44c.0404181137.6ec29ba8@posting.google.com>

I need to imitate keyboard strokes in an active window inside of
internet explorer, specifically I need my program to log on to a
chatroom without me actually sitting in front of my computer. Also,
once it has logged on to the program I need my program to "read"
(search for strings, etc.) the text that's entered by other users in
this "chatroom". The problem I have is actually logging in to the
chatroom since I have not found a way to duplicate keyboard strokes.


If someone could point me in the right direction on tutorials about
this or show me a sample program that does this I would really
appreciate it.


--grigri9

P.S. I am a first semester programming student at my high school and
Python is the only language I know.


From rnikaREMOVEnder at adelphia.net  Thu Apr 22 00:37:44 2004
From: rnikaREMOVEnder at adelphia.net (Rob Nikander)
Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2004 21:37:44 -0700
Subject: How to get the ip addresses of a nic
In-Reply-To: <2e262238.0404211825.2f6231b@posting.google.com>
References: <LEfhc.146586$jf4.7761132@news000.worldonline.dk>
	<2e262238.0404211825.2f6231b@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <gvGdnVrg-OyO0RrdRVn-sw@adelphia.com>

Justin Dubs wrote:
>>>>socket.gethostbyname(socket.gethostname())
> 
> '192.168.0.18'
> 
> Justin Dubs


That always gives me this:

 >>> import socket
 >>> socket.gethostbyname(socket.gethostname())
'127.0.0.1'



From jcarlson at uci.edu  Sat Apr  3 20:22:04 2004
From: jcarlson at uci.edu (Josiah Carlson)
Date: Sat, 03 Apr 2004 17:22:04 -0800
Subject: recursive file editing
In-Reply-To: <pan.2004.04.03.22.42.10.659781@interfree.it>
References: <pan.2004.04.03.20.25.28.565809@interfree.it>
	<ccFbc.4784$zf6.64753@news4.e.nsc.no>
	<pan.2004.04.03.22.42.10.659781@interfree.it>
Message-ID: <c4no62$6so$1@news.service.uci.edu>

> for thing in os.walk('mydir'):
> 	file(thing,mode=r+)

for thing in os.walk('mydir'):
     filehandle = file(thing, 'r+')


  - Josiah


From richie at entrian.com  Wed Apr  7 10:47:22 2004
From: richie at entrian.com (Richie Hindle)
Date: Wed, 07 Apr 2004 15:47:22 +0100
Subject: painful debugging: techniques?
In-Reply-To: <8ef9bea6.0404070621.342c3b5d@posting.google.com>
References: <WqKcc.5327$BF2.680616@news20.bellglobal.com>
	<a3fck1-s7k.ln1@home.rogerbinns.com>
	<8ef9bea6.0404070621.342c3b5d@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <7l4870tl7cchahdfsqjjaflt4kik86btnc@4ax.com>


[Hung Jung]
> The question now is: how can we stop this from happening to other people?
> [...] So far, I think Peter Otten's approach (search through the source
> code) may be the most practical way.

Make weakref.ref() check that its second argument is a callable?

(I know, "patches welcome" 8-)

-- 
Richie Hindle
richie at entrian.com




From has.temp2 at virgin.net  Wed Apr 28 18:46:00 2004
From: has.temp2 at virgin.net (has)
Date: 28 Apr 2004 15:46:00 -0700
Subject: What is good about Prothon?
References: <bniq80hiib0gauiltuntk9jvia2getbnj4@4ax.com>
	<nxdjc.400$Qy.363@fed1read04>
	<m0ps8092jss5mhpopkbj0a4hg0m0rlppqh@4ax.com>
	<vDvjc.5555$Qy.2995@fed1read04>
	<108t2tlo06j8vb9@corp.supernews.com>
	<hzwjc.6087$Qy.2366@fed1read04>
Message-ID: <69cbbef2.0404281446.4e0ab52e@posting.google.com>

"Mark Hahn" <mark at prothon.org> wrote in message news:<hzwjc.6087$Qy.2366 at fed1read04>...

> I've got Has on one side of me who says that having prototype references
> instead of copies makes it too much like Python and therefore it isn't
> prototype-based

Not so. I've been saying it's not a proto-OO language because proto-OO
behaves according to a single tier model where all objects are equal,
whereas Prothon, like class-based OO languages, follows a two-tier
model where some objects (classes/"prototypes") are more equal than
others ("object" objects).

I may not know much about programming, but I've a pretty damn good eye
on me and can well tell the difference between stuff that's genuinely
simple and stuff that merely thinks it is. I know how high to set the
bar and, unlike some "real" programmers who think "simplicity" is
something you can get from slapping an extra abstraction layer on top
of the current complexity, I'm not afraid to rip everything down and
start right over again if something fails to reach it; and keep doing
so till it does. (Something a fair few professionals have yet to
learn, IMHO.)

You've asked for input on Prothon and FWIW I've given it. And while
it's no skin off my nose whether you want/need/like it or not, I'd
rather you didn't make it sound like the above is the best argument I
could muster as it's a little embarrassing. (Yeah, I realise that
sifting the wheat of my posts from the plentiful chaff can take some
work, but hey, nothing in life worth doing is easy...)


From alan.gauld at btinternet.com  Fri Apr  9 19:42:47 2004
From: alan.gauld at btinternet.com (Alan Gauld)
Date: Sat, 10 Apr 2004 00:42:47 +0100
Subject: Simple Class Question - need clarity please
References: <EYFdc.51749$Id.27192@news-binary.blueyonder.co.uk>
Message-ID: <2tce701vv505395hcr6dqtvc8ot0fdmkrk@4ax.com>

On Sat, 10 Apr 2004 00:03:07 +0100, "Stevie_mac"
<no.email at please.com> wrote:

> What is wrong with this?...
> 
> import win32con, win32ui
> from pywin.mfc import dialog #, window
> class Window:
>     def MakeDlgTemplate(self):
...
>     def DoModal(self):
>         mw = win32ui.CreateDialogIndirect( self.MakeDlgTemplate() )
>         mw.DoModal()
> 
> # file test.py #
> import mywindow
> class MyClass(mywindow.Window):
>     def Show(self):
>         self.DoModal()
> 
> t = MyClass()
> t.Show()
> 
> . . . I get
> NameError: global name 'MakeDlgTemplate' is not defined  ???

Its a good idea to post the entire error traceback so we see the
actual line of code the error refers to. This error usually means
you accessed a name from a module without prefixing it with the
module name. But so far as I can see you haven't done that here.

> another 1 I managed to clear up was . . .
> TypeError: Show() takes no arguments (1 given)
> . . . until I added 'self' to the Show function  ???

Yes, every method of a class must have a parameter that refers to
the instance at call time, usually called self (or maybe "this"
if you come from Java or C++)

At runtime Python effectively calls

class.method(instance)

> I'm also struggling with other things like...
> Where do I save .py files?

Anywhere you like! I have a folder called Projects\Python where I
keep mine :-)

So long as Python knows where to find them - either by modifying
the sys.path value (explicitly or via the registry setting) or
the PYTHONPATH environment variable...

> Will 'import' find my files where ever they are? 

Yes if one of the two locations above are set.

HTH,

Alan G.
Author of the Learn to Program website
http://www.freenetpages.co.uk/hp/alan.gauld


From opengeometry at yahoo.ca  Wed Apr 21 15:21:08 2004
From: opengeometry at yahoo.ca (William Park)
Date: 21 Apr 2004 19:21:08 GMT
Subject: Time
References: <mailman.871.1082573147.20120.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <c66hj4$8o6pa$1@ID-99293.news.uni-berlin.de>

Jonas Galvez <jonas at jonasgalvez.com> wrote:
> If I have a tuple like this:
> 
>     (year, month, day, hour, minute)
> 
> Is there a way to automatically generate a string like this?
> 
>     "YYYY-MM-DDTHH:MM:00"
> 
> I remember seeing something about it somewhere... wanted to be sure.

Hint:
    '%02d' % 4

-- 
William Park, Open Geometry Consulting, <opengeometry at yahoo.ca>
Linux solution/training/migration, Thin-client


From junkmail at solumslekt.org  Fri Apr  2 13:10:08 2004
From: junkmail at solumslekt.org (Leif B. Kristensen)
Date: Fri, 02 Apr 2004 20:10:08 +0200
Subject: String concatenation
References: <wS8bc.4382$px6.64058@news2.e.nsc.no>
	<7xisgi24fm.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<Rz9bc.4514$zf6.60676@news4.e.nsc.no>
	<406D27A7.6550A00B@alcyone.com>
	<ZW9bc.4389$px6.64242@news2.e.nsc.no>
	<406D2CD5.878EBD4E@alcyone.com>
	<d9abc.4519$zf6.60744@news4.e.nsc.no>
	<406D2FA2.6E5118CC@alcyone.com>
Message-ID: <YZhbc.4488$px6.65517@news2.e.nsc.no>

Erik Max Francis wrote:

> Maybe it's grabbing tabs, or obscure unprintable whitespace you can't
> see.  Certainly what you're pasting in to these posts is intended,
> whether or not you did that manually.

The problem is recognised and confirmed. I posted a description of the
situation on comp.windows.x.kde, and received essentially this answer:

"you will notice that the "space" is an ASCII space (20 hex) in the
working version and ASCII space + 128 (A0 hex) in the non-working
version. Just because the display looks the same does not mean it is
the same."

regards,
-- 
Leif Biberg Kristensen
http://solumslekt.org/
Validare necesse est


From address at is.invalid  Fri Apr  2 12:32:08 2004
From: address at is.invalid (Bill)
Date: Fri, 2 Apr 2004 09:32:08 -0800
Subject: ANNOUNCE: 'goto' for Python
References: <mailman.210.1080803438.20120.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <c4k82q02qp8@enews2.newsguy.com>


"Richie Hindle" <richie at entrian.com> wrote in message
news:mailman.210.1080803438.20120.python-list at python.org...
--snip--
> 'comefrom' example: letting cleanup code take control after an error.
>
>     from goto import comefrom, label
>     def bigFunction():
>         setUp()
>         if not doFirstTask():
>             label .failed
>         if not doSecondTask():
>             label .failed
>         if not doThirdTask():
>             label .failed
>
>         comefrom .failed
>         cleanUp()
Hello,
Can you explain to me why you need comefrom? Couldn't you replace
"label.failed" with "goto cleanup"? Thanks.
Louis




From faheem at email.unc.edu  Thu Apr  8 11:52:31 2004
From: faheem at email.unc.edu (Faheem Mitha)
Date: Thu, 8 Apr 2004 11:52:31 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: problems with compiling and loading C++ extension
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0404081151590.8108@Chrestomanci>


Dear People,

I have been having an odd problem with compiling and loading a simple
C++ extension to python (as a .so file in Linux). Unfortunately, I'll
need to include my files in here so I apologize in advance for the
length of this message.

You can download also the files below from
http://www.stat.unc.edu/students/faheem/python/python.tar.gz in case
that is more convenient.

This needs blitz++ and python's distutils and numarray to compile.

When I try to load arrmod.so into python I get

In [1]: import arrmod
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
ImportError                               Traceback (most recent call
last)

/tmp/wc/corrmodel/ex/<console>

ImportError: ./arrmod.so: undefined symbol:
_Z11py_to_blitzIdLi2EEN5blitz5ArrayIT_XT0_EEEP13PyArrayObject

If I move the py_to_blitz routine from conv.cc back into arrmod.cc,
the error disappears, arrmod loads in python, and everything works
correctly. I'm not sure what is going on here. Can someone enlighten
me? At first I thought it might have to do with the need for C
linkage, but I tried that, and it does not appear to be the case.

I also got the following compilation warning, which I don't
understand. I don't know if that is relevant.

---------------------------------------------------------------------
gcc -pthread -fno-strict-aliasing -DNDEBUG -g -O3 -Wall
-Wstrict-prototypes -fPIC -I/usr/include/python2.3 -c conv.cc -o
/tmp/temp.linux-i686-2.3/conv.o -Wall
/usr/include/python2.3/Numeric/arrayobject.h:286: warning:
`void**PyArray_API'
   defined but not used
---------------------------------------------------------------------

Thanks in advance for any enlightenment.

                                                 Faheem.

**********************************************************************
Makefile
**********************************************************************
arrmod.so: arrmod.cc common.hh conv.cc
	python setup.py build --build-base=/tmp --build-lib=.
# may not do the right thing for everyone
clean:
	rm arrmod.so
	rm -r /tmp/temp.linux-i686-2.3
**********************************************************************

**********************************************************************
setup.py
**********************************************************************
from distutils.core import setup, Extension

module4 = Extension('arrmod',
                    sources = ['arrmod.cc','conv.cc'],libraries=["blitz","m"],
                    extra_compile_args = ['-Wall'])

setup (name = 'arrmod',
       version = '1.0',
       description = 'This module performs different operations on arrays',
       ext_modules = [module4]
       )
**********************************************************************

**********************************************************************
common.hh
**********************************************************************
#include "Python.h"
#include "Numeric/arrayobject.h"
#include <blitz/array.h>

using namespace std;
using namespace blitz;

template<class T, int N>
static Array<T,N> py_to_blitz(PyArrayObject* arr_obj);
**********************************************************************

**********************************************************************
conv.cc
**********************************************************************
#include "common.hh"

// Convert a Numpy array to a blitz one, using the original's data (no
// copy)
template<class T, int N>
static Array<T,N> py_to_blitz(PyArrayObject* arr_obj)
{
  int T_size = sizeof(T);
  TinyVector<int,N> shape(0);
  TinyVector<int,N> strides(0);
  int *arr_dimensions = arr_obj->dimensions;
  int *arr_strides = arr_obj->strides;

  for (int i=0;i<N;++i)
    {
      shape[i]   = arr_dimensions[i];
      strides[i] = arr_strides[i]/T_size;
    }
  return Array<T,N>((T*) arr_obj->data,shape,strides,neverDeleteData);
}
************************************************************************

************************************************************************
arrmod.cc
************************************************************************
#include "common.hh"

template<class T, int N>
static Array<T,N> py_to_blitz(PyArrayObject* arr_obj);

static PyObject * arrmod_elem(PyObject *self, PyObject *args);

static PyMethodDef arrmod_methods[] =
  {
    {"elem", (PyCFunction)arrmod_elem, METH_VARARGS, "Returns the trace of a two-dimensional array.\n"},
    {NULL, NULL, 0, NULL}
  };

PyMODINIT_FUNC initarrmod(void)
{
  (void) Py_InitModule3("arrmod", arrmod_methods, "Returns the Trace of a two-dimensional array.\n");
  import_array();
}

static PyObject * arrmod_elem(PyObject *self, PyObject *args)
{
  PyObject *input, *result;
  PyArrayObject *array;
  double el;
  int i, j;

  if (!PyArg_ParseTuple(args, "Oii", &input, &i, &j))
    return NULL;
  array = (PyArrayObject *)
    PyArray_ContiguousFromObject(input, PyArray_DOUBLE, 2, 2);
  if (array == NULL)
    return NULL;

  Array<double,2> arr = py_to_blitz<double,2>(array);

  el = arr(i,j);
  result = Py_BuildValue("d",el);
  return result;
}
********************************************************************************



From fredrik at pythonware.com  Tue Apr 20 09:31:03 2004
From: fredrik at pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 15:31:03 +0200
Subject: Good Python Tk overview
References: <J13hc.186320$oR5.5397@pd7tw3no>
Message-ID: <c638m1$eo$1@sea.gmane.org>

"News User" wrote:

> I'm comming from the background of being primarily a data processing
> programmer (Python) and I'd like to do some GUI stuff for a comercial
> project but I have quite a bit of time, nothing too complex but it has
> to work on Windows98+ OSX and Solaris so I was thinking Tkinter. I was
> wondering if there were some sites with a good overview of the whole
> Python +Tk shpeal, I've got some code examples and "Programming Python
> 2nd Edition" but that's more of a learn by example, rather than an
> overview of concepts. Anyone have a good recommendation?

start here:

    http://www.python.org/topics/tkinter/doc.html

</F>






From smallbee at rediffmail.com  Tue Apr  6 03:43:56 2004
From: smallbee at rediffmail.com (Somesh Bartakkay)
Date: 6 Apr 2004 00:43:56 -0700
Subject: more Slow - gan  !
Message-ID: <8f198e47.0404052343.4c5e4d77@posting.google.com>

More Creativity evry Lines,
thats why Python Shines !


From nospam at nospam.com  Wed Apr 28 10:12:57 2004
From: nospam at nospam.com (Mark)
Date: Wed, 28 Apr 2004 14:12:57 GMT
Subject: A python telnet entry level question
References: <mailman.893.1082600095.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<c67vo4$go4gt$1@fido.engr.sgi.com>
Message-ID: <JZOjc.48479$GR.6894914@attbi_s01>

"Andrew Jones" <ajones at sgi.com> wrote in message
news:c67vo4$go4gt$1 at fido.engr.sgi.com...
> It might be getting stuck on the Password part.
>
> Try this:
>
> tn.read_until("Password: ", 1)
>
>
> Ethereal can be very helpful. Use it to see what is happening on the
> wire. It has a "follow TCP stream" function. Obviously this will not
> work for telneting to localhost so you will need to telnet to a remote
host.

I just discovered telnetlib yesterday and found "set_debuglevel" to be very
useful to figure out what to read_until.

-Mark

>
> Good luck.
> Andy
>
> Jinming Xu wrote:
> > Hello Everyone,
> >
> > I am trying to write a python script to telnet to a server and then do
> > something there. As the first step, I practiced the python example in
> > Lib Reference 11.13.2. But I am finding the script stops after I
> > supplied the password.  Does anyone know why?
> >
> >
> > Thanks in advance!
> >
> > Jinming Xu
> >
> > PS: Here is the script:
> >
> > import getpass
> > import sys
> > import telnetlib
> >
> > HOST = "localhost"
> > user = raw_input("Enter your remote account: ")
> > password = getpass.getpass()
> >
> > tn = telnetlib.Telnet(HOST)
> >
> > tn.read_until("login: ")
> > tn.write(user + "\n")
> > if password:
> >    tn.read_until("Password: ")
> >    tn.write(password + "\n")
> >
> > tn.write("ls\n")
> > tn.write("exit\n")
> >
> > print tn.read_all()
> >
> > _________________________________________________________________
> > MSN Toolbar provides one-click access to Hotmail from any Web page ?
> > FREE download! http://toolbar.msn.com/go/onm00200413ave/direct/01/
> >
> >
>




From michele.simionato at poste.it  Sat Apr  3 03:03:17 2004
From: michele.simionato at poste.it (Michele Simionato)
Date: 3 Apr 2004 00:03:17 -0800
Subject: Simple text markup (-> HTML)
References: <tyf3c7m1zic.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
Message-ID: <95aa1afa.0404030003.2b5b1b1f@posting.google.com>

Jacek Generowicz <jacek.generowicz at cern.ch> wrote in message news:<tyf3c7m1zic.fsf at pcepsft001.cern.ch>...
<snip>

I write everything in rst format and then convert to HTML,Latex,PS, PDF, etc.
For what concerns the documentation, I write snippets and examples inside
it, then I execute the text file using (a minor hack to) doctest and I
get (additional) tests for free. Finally, I write the documentation (call
it implementation proposal if you wish) before writing the actual code,
so I get Documentation Driven Development ;)

Way cool: it is something between literate programming and TDD. Most
importantly it works. I have yet to implement the second step: the idea 
is to convert the documentation in HTML, put it on the Web and let 
the customer run the tests with a click on the browser as soon as he reads 
the documentation (or proposal of implementation) and see if he/she likes it.
It is not difficult to implement though.

I think you get the picture. doctest is still largely unexplored but it
has enourmous potentiality in terms of easy of use and convenience.
Think only to the fact that you get always updated documentation by definition.


      Michele Simionato


From jjl at pobox.com  Tue Apr  6 16:43:58 2004
From: jjl at pobox.com (John J. Lee)
Date: 06 Apr 2004 21:43:58 +0100
Subject: shutil.move, permission denied, why ?
References: <Xns94C3B42DA41DEstefninalussinanorg@212.27.42.68>
Message-ID: <87wu4s25wx.fsf@pobox.com>

"St?phane Ninin" <stefnin at alussinan.org> writes:
[...]
> (I have removed most of the logic of the code here, so I am not sure 
> it's going to be helpful)
[...]

Post a short snippet of code that runs and demonstrates the problem.


John


From mlh at furu.idi.ntnu.no  Wed Apr 14 16:43:16 2004
From: mlh at furu.idi.ntnu.no (Magnus Lie Hetland)
Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2004 20:43:16 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: ANN: Atox 0.4 released
Message-ID: <slrnc7r8j4.4pp.mlh@furu.idi.ntnu.no>



What is it?
===========

Atox is a framework for automated markup. With it one can quite easily
write custom scripts for converting plain text into XML in any way one
wishes. Atox is normally used as a command-line script, using a simple
XML language to specify the desired transformation from text to
markup, but it is also possible to build custom parsers using the Atox
library. The name (short for ASCII-to-XML) is inspired by such UNIX
tools and system functions as atops and atoi.


What can it do?
===============

The examples in the distribution demonstrate how you can use Atox to:

  - Mark up a (relatively simple) technical document (the Atox
    manual);

  - Mark up code blocks only through indentation;

  - Nest lists through indentation
  
  - Discern between different indentation "shapes" (e.g. a block quote
    versus a description list item);

  - Transform simple LaTeX into XML;

  - Add XML "syntax highlighting" to Python code;

  - Mark up screenplays or stageplays, largely based on indentation;

  - Mark up simple fictional prose;

  - Mark up simple tables.


What's new in 0.4?
==================

These are the changes I've made:

  - Made the error handling slightly more user-friendly.

  - Added some basic improvements to the command-line interface (the
    '-e', '-f' and '-o' switches, as well the ability to use multiple
    input files or standard input). Note that the new calling
    convention is incompatible with the previous version, in that the
    format file is no longer supplied as an argument.

  - Normalized newline-handling.
  
  - Added the utility tags 'ax:block', 'ax:sob' (start-of-block) and
    'ax:eob' (end-of-block).

  - Fixed an important bug in the indentation code, which affected
    'ax:indented'.
    
  - Made empty sequences legal.
  
  - Added support for config files.


Where can I get it?
===================

Atox is hosted at SourceForge (http://atox.sf.net) and the current
release (0.4) is available for download via its project page
(http://sf.net/projects/atox).


The Small Print
===============

Atox is released under the MIT license. It comes with no warranty of
any kind. Also, even though the current version works well, and the
project is currently (as per early 2004) being actively developed,
there is no guarantee of continued support. What you see is what you
get.


-- 
Magnus Lie Hetland  "Oppression and harassment is a small price to pay
http://hetland.org   to live in the land of the free."  -- C. M. Burns


From Mike at DeleteThis.Geary.com  Wed Apr  7 00:49:58 2004
From: Mike at DeleteThis.Geary.com (Michael Geary)
Date: Tue, 6 Apr 2004 21:49:58 -0700
Subject: Cookies
References: <40737a05$0$20085$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au>
Message-ID: <107723mjkvkee9e@corp.supernews.com>

> Trying to write a python script that does the same thing my browser
> does when posting a form.(cgi)
>
> All works except for this.  My browser has a cookie which it also sends,
> and the server insists on getting.
>
> So how can I replicate this under python? I've looked at cookie
> module but can't see how to use it to achieve this.  Please help.

That's right, the cookie module is for use on a server, not a client.

Try the ClientCookie module:

http://wwwsearch.sourceforge.net/ClientCookie/

I've used this successfully to do client-side things such as logging into
Yahoo as a browser would.

-Mike




From james at ractive.ch  Mon Apr 12 09:27:02 2004
From: james at ractive.ch (Jean-Pierre Bergamin)
Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2004 15:27:02 +0200
Subject: How to get value of parent class
Message-ID: <c5e5fb$irm$1@newshispeed.ch>

Hello

I have the following class structure:


class MyServer:

    x= 0

    class MyHandler(SocketServer.StreamRequestHandler):
        def handle(self):
            if x: # <---- How to get the X from the parent class?
                  # Or how to pass a value to this class anyway?
                do_something()
            else:
                do_something_else()

    def start_server(self):
        s = SocketServer.TCPServer(('', 1234), self.MyHandler)
        s.server_forevert()

server = MyServer
server.x = 10
server.start_server()



How is it possible to get the value of x from the class MyServer within the
MyHandler class?
The object of self.MyHandler is instantiated everytine the
SocketServer.TCPServer calls handle, so it's not possible to create an
instance of MyHandler an pass it the value.

Or ist there any other possibility to pass the class MyHandler some values?


Thanks in advance.


James




From mcfletch at rogers.com  Wed Apr 14 11:33:21 2004
From: mcfletch at rogers.com (Mike C. Fletcher)
Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2004 11:33:21 -0400
Subject: Difficulty Finding Python Developers
In-Reply-To: <65cbc3dd.0404140641.3501fde8@posting.google.com>
References: <65cbc3dd.0404140641.3501fde8@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <407D59C1.1090303@rogers.com>

Paul Morrow wrote:

>We've worked hard to convince our company to migrate our core
>applications to Python, and now we're looking for a Python developer
>in Atlanta to handle a short-term (approx. 3 month) project.  But our
>initial searches have been fairly unsuccessful.  We haven't actually
>posted a job on Monster, but we have been talking with various
>headhunters in our area and they don't have many resumes that show
>Python experience.  An so now, of course, mgt is wondering whether
>selecting Python was a mistake.
>
>As anyone had a similar experience?  Suggestions?
>  
>
Suggestions:

    * Post on the python.org job-board, though honestly, I don't know
      how many of us contractor types actually check it regularly, since
      most postings there are for jobs as distinct from short-term contracts
    * Post here. Noisy is often a good strategy in advertising
    * Look up any Python Open Source project your respect and ask if the
      developer is available for contract work (they often are)
    * Convert any senior programmer to a Pythonista, approximately 2-3
      weeks training
    * If looking for junior programmers (doesn't seem likely in this
      particular case, but just in case), advertise at a university,
      such as the University of Waterloo (in Canada), which has a lot of
      Python activity either for graduates or co-op students (caveat,
      I'm an alumni, so UofW is obviously not all it's cracked up to be ;) )
    * Import from Canada, we've got dozens of Python coders in Toronto
      alone, of course, then you may have visa issues (particularly for
      such a short stint)
    * There are a number of firms around and about (ours (Vex) included)
      which offer contract Python programmers, I think Engenuity is also
      up for contract work these days... both of those are
      Toronto-based, so likely visa issues again.  I think Michael
      Bernstein would likely be open to contract work, and he's down in
      the states and willing to travel, think he mostly focuses of
      web-site/app development.
    * There's at least one Python-specific job board the URL for which I
      haven't been able to put my finger on at the moment, owner of that
      will probably pipe up with the name
    * I think there's a Python/Zope group in the research triangle area,
      they might very well have (moderately (never took US geography in
      school, so my recollection of relative distance may be off)) local
      people interested in contract work

Good luck,
Mike

_______________________________________
  Mike C. Fletcher
  Designer, VR Plumber, Coder
  http://members.rogers.com/mcfletch/





From alejandro.sanchez at municipia.com  Thu Apr  1 08:09:21 2004
From: alejandro.sanchez at municipia.com (Alejandro =?iso-8859-1?b?U+FuY2hleg==?= Acosta)
Date: Thu,  1 Apr 2004 15:09:21 +0200
Subject: Blocking mouse/keyboard input.
Message-ID: <1080824961.406c1481296c1@www.gobernalia.com>

Hello,

I have done a little aplication that does a remote connection to other machine
and opens a vncclient to connect to the VNC in other machine (it's just for a
network monitorization).

Now I need that I can enable/disable the input of the keyboard/mouse both
windows and Linux, any good idea about how to block the keyboard/mouse in
python? any ioctl and win dll to do it?

Thanks in advance,
Alejandro.



From grante at visi.com  Thu Apr 29 12:46:08 2004
From: grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards)
Date: 29 Apr 2004 16:46:08 GMT
Subject: Don't understand wxPython ids
References: <408ed938$0$17263$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
	<BOEjc.12559$eZ5.4366@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>
	<408f3061$0$17258$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
	<zCJjc.12791$eZ5.2682@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>
	<408fb665$0$17264$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
	<yoTjc.13255$eZ5.1700@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>
	<mfWjc.16567$e4.16098@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <40913150$0$17257$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>

On 2004-04-28, Greg Krohn <greg at invalid.invalid> wrote:

> Here we go. Use the attached module like this:
>
> #yourmodule.py
> import wx
> from event_kwargs import *

Hmm. I guess it's time to upgrade to 2.5.

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow!  I'm in a twist
                                  at               contest!! I'm in a
                               visi.com            bathtub! It's on Mars!! I'm
                                                   in tip-top condition!


From andrew-pythonlist at puzzling.org  Wed Apr 21 20:27:22 2004
From: andrew-pythonlist at puzzling.org (Andrew Bennetts)
Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2004 10:27:22 +1000
Subject: Generator inside a class prevent __del__ ??
In-Reply-To: <4087031A.AEB67C72@free.fr>
References: <4085BA96.651D2E4A@free.fr>
	<mailman.819.1082507351.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<40866ECD.A45758B9@free.fr>
	<mailman.885.1082588262.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<4087031A.AEB67C72@free.fr>
Message-ID: <20040422002722.GA1929@frobozz>

On Thu, Apr 22, 2004 at 01:26:18AM +0200, Emmanuel wrote:
> 
> 
> Andrew Bennetts a ?crit :
> 
> > On Wed, Apr 21, 2004 at 02:53:33PM +0200, Emmanuel wrote:
> > >
> > > Trouble is, I _would_ like not to care about the lifetime of the object, and I
> > > don't know where it will be destroyed.
> >
> > Then don't use __del__.  Python can and will automatically collect cycles
> > when the objects *don't* define __del__ methods.
> >
> > Out of curiousity, why are you defining __del__ anyway?
> >
> > -Andrew.
> 
> I don't want to use __del__, but I suspected I had an issue with the destruction of
> my objects, and used a log in __del__ to monitor the destruction.

Except that __del__ affects how they are destructed :)

Weakrefs are probably a better choice for this, as they don't interfere with
the lifecycle of the object you're interested in, unlike __del__.

> But defining __del__ has also a lot of valuable utilisation, or so I think...

It's only very very rarely useful, in my experience.  Again, weakrefs are
probably more useful for what you have in mind.

-Andrew.




From molitar at hotmail.com  Thu Apr 15 14:11:41 2004
From: molitar at hotmail.com (molitar at hotmail.com)
Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2004 18:11:41 GMT
Subject: Help with combobox being invisible after upgrading python
Message-ID: <imjt701j229ahb4q8ir0sik13mv07otjtu@4ax.com>

I have a problem with combobox not showing after updating to latest Python.    Part of code below that worked fine until I updated.  The combobox is there and you can click on the invisible combobox and see 
the dropdown but the combobox itself is invisible.

import wx
from wxPython.wx import *
from wxPython import *
from webbrowser import open_new
from threading import Thread
from filemanager import *
from os import path
from os.path import join
from variable import *

class GlobalUploadDialog(wxDialog):
    def __init__(self, parent, ID, title,
                 pos=wxDefaultPosition, size=wxDefaultSize,
                 style=wxDEFAULT_DIALOG_STYLE):
        pre = wxPreDialog()
        pre.Create(parent, ID, title, pos, size, style)
        self.this = pre.this
        self.parent = parent


        # GUI dialog for Global upload setting
        ########################################
        loc_maxupload           = self.parent.abcparams['maxupload']
        loc_maxuploadrate       = self.parent.abcparams['maxuploadrate']
        loc_maxseeduploadrate   = self.parent.abcparams['maxseeduploadrate']
        loc_uploadopt           = self.parent.abcparams['uploadoption']
        loc_uploadtimeh         = self.parent.abcparams['uploadtimeh']
        loc_uploadtimem         = self.parent.abcparams['uploadtimem']
        loc_uploadratio         = self.parent.abcparams['uploadratio']

        ID_COMBOBOX_HTIME = wxNewId()
        ID_COMBOBOX_MTIME = wxNewId()
        ID_COMBOBOX_RATIO = wxNewId()

        self.cbhtime = wx.ComboBox(self,ID_COMBOBOX_HTIME, loc_uploadtimeh, wx.Point(150, 149),                                  
                                  wx.Size(37, -1), htimeval, wx.CB_DROPDOWN|wx.CB_READONLY)
        self.cbmtime = wxComboBox(self, ID_COMBOBOX_MTIME, loc_uploadtimem, wxPoint(198, 149),
                                  wxSize(37, -1), mtimeval, wxCB_DROPDOWN|wxCB_READONLY)
        self.cbhtime.SetValue(loc_uploadtimeh)
        self.cbmtime.SetValue(loc_uploadtimem)

        ratioval = ['50', '75', '100', '125', '150','175','200','300', '400', '500']
        self.cbratio = wxComboBox(self, ID_COMBOBOX_RATIO, loc_uploadratio,
                                  wxPoint(150, 173), wxSize(45, -1), ratioval, wxCB_DROPDOWN|wxCB_READONLY)
        self.cbratio.SetValue(loc_uploadratio)


Before updating to the latest version the comboboxes showed up fine.


From chris at simplistix.co.uk  Sat Apr  3 12:02:43 2004
From: chris at simplistix.co.uk (Chris Withers)
Date: Sat, 03 Apr 2004 18:02:43 +0100
Subject: Weird Python 2.3 subclassing thing with _mysql and MySQLdb
In-Reply-To: <406EDE94.9000701@simplistix.co.uk>
References: <406E9DE4.2000604@simplistix.co.uk>
	<406EDE94.9000701@simplistix.co.uk>
Message-ID: <406EEE33.9050901@simplistix.co.uk>

(cross posting to python list in case someone there can explain this bizarre 
behaviour...)

Python 2.3.3 (#51, Dec 18 2003, 20:22:39) [MSC v.1200 32 bit (Intel)] on win32
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
 >>> import _mysql

...define kwargs...

 >>> c = _mysql.connection(**kwargs)
 >>> c
<_mysql.connection open to 'localhost' at 7b8858>
 >>> c.server_capabilities
Traceback (most recent call last):
   File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
AttributeError: server_capabilities

...hmmm, okay, so no server_capabilties attribute...

 >>> class test(_mysql.connection): pass
...
 >>> c = test(**kwargs)
 >>> c
<_mysql.connection open to 'localhost' at 82c2a0>
 >>> c.server_capabilities
8236

...BWAGGGHH?!

Chris

-- 
Simplistix - Content Management, Zope & Python Consulting
            - http://www.simplistix.co.uk




From hungjunglu at yahoo.com  Sat Apr 17 11:58:27 2004
From: hungjunglu at yahoo.com (Hung Jung Lu)
Date: 17 Apr 2004 08:58:27 -0700
Subject: AOP use cases
References: <84fc4588.0404140106.3fa0c55@posting.google.com>	<slrnc7q1ss.1aa.alf@largo.fayauffre.org>	<cb035744.0404141130.170f51c4@posting.google.com>	<slrnc7sgat.vp.alf@largo.fayauffre.org>	<cb035744.0404160442.2f0b1661@posting.google.com>	<0pydnSB4WYuieuLdRVn-hQ@powergate.ca>	<c5otn0$44o$1@news1.wdf.sap-ag.de>
	<mailman.726.1082181389.20120.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <8ef9bea6.0404170758.49a69f43@posting.google.com>

Shane Hathaway <shane at zope.com> wrote in message news:<mailman.726.1082181389.20120.python-list at python.org>...
> 
> This discussion makes me wonder if Zope has been dabbling in AOP 
> concepts for years without knowing it.  In addition to ZODB, Zope lets 
> you declare permissions for methods, wraps objects with proxies to give 
> them an environment, and inspects method signatures to make them 
> directly callable by URL.  The AOP folks talk about very similar things. 
>   Surely there is some common thread.

You are right on there. :) Zope has plenty of places where it could
use AOP or is using AOP-like techniques. I remember the days when I
was using SiteAccess. SiteAcess is a perfect example of AOP. In that
sense, Apache's ModRewrite is another prefect example.

ZODB is transactional. But Zope < 3.0 is not enterprise-transactional
a la MTS or EJB/J2EE. I am not experienced in the details of
implementation of transactional architecture, but I would guess part
of the difficulty in converting an existing application into a
fully-transactional application is because you have to modify code all
over too many places. This is the type of problems that AOP addresses.

regards,

Hung Jung


From bror.johansson at saabtech.se  Thu Apr 29 03:00:04 2004
From: bror.johansson at saabtech.se (Bror Johansson)
Date: Thu, 29 Apr 2004 09:00:04 +0200
Subject: Arachno Python IDE
References: <c6q8tb$6q3$1@newstree.wise.edt.ericsson.se>
Message-ID: <c6q92c$6s0$1@newstree.wise.edt.ericsson.se>


"Bror Johansson" <bror.johansson at saabtech.se> wrote in message
news:c6q8tb$6q3$1 at newstree.wise.edt.ericsson.se...
> I can't remember having seen anything in this forum about Arachno Python
> IDE. (http://www.python-ide.com/arachno_python.php)
>
> Anyone tried it? Impressions?
>
> /BJ
>
>

Follow up to myself.
I just noticed that the trial version was for Ruby only.




From lbates at swamisoft.com  Tue Apr 13 10:07:19 2004
From: lbates at swamisoft.com (Larry Bates)
Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2004 09:07:19 -0500
Subject: how to break tuple to separate variables
References: <mailman.572.1081846104.20120.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <DaqdnR5dBL-LaebdRVn-uA@comcast.com>

Take a look at the built-in apply function:

apply(datetime.date, date2tuple('2004-11-03'))

Larry Bates
Syscon, Inc.


"Stano Paska" <Stanislav.Paska at kios.sk> wrote in message
news:mailman.572.1081846104.20120.python-list at python.org...
> Hi.
>
> I need pass variables to function like tuple, but function accepts
> separate variables.
>
> Is there some elegant solution?
>
> My example:
>
> # -------------------------------
> import datetime
>
> def date2tuple(aaa):
>      try:
>          y = int(aaa[:4])
>          m = int(aaa[5:7])
>          d = int(aaa[8:10])
>      except:
>          y = m = d = 0
>      return (y, m, d)
>
> # i need some like this
> bbb = datetime.date(date2tuple('2004-11-03'))
>
> # but date requires
> bbb = datetime.date(2004, 11, 03)
>
> # -------------------------------
>
> Thanks.
>
> Stano Paska
>
>
>




From jepler at unpythonic.net  Wed Apr 21 08:33:21 2004
From: jepler at unpythonic.net (Jeff Epler)
Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2004 07:33:21 -0500
Subject: Passing argument to setsockopt(socket.SOL_SOCKET,
	IN.SO_BINDTODEVICE, intr)
In-Reply-To: <40866792$0$31708$fa0fcedb@lovejoy.zen.co.uk>
References: <408640b7$0$31671$fa0fcedb@lovejoy.zen.co.uk>
	<40866792$0$31708$fa0fcedb@lovejoy.zen.co.uk>
Message-ID: <20040421123320.GB9864@unpythonic.net>

On Wed, Apr 21, 2004 at 12:22:41PM +0000, Richard Taylor wrote:
> The answer is:
> 
> s.setsockopt(socket.SOL_SOCKET,IN.SO_BINDTODEVICE,struct.pack("%ds" %
> (len("eth0")+1,), "eth0"))
> Richard Taylor wrote:

Maybe this is simpler:
    #dev = "eth0"
    s.setsockopt(..., dev + '\0')
I think it has the same effect as your code, but it is a little clearer
to me that the setsockopt call needs a zero-terminated C string as its
argument.

Jeff



From shane at zope.com  Sat Apr 17 01:56:03 2004
From: shane at zope.com (Shane Hathaway)
Date: Sat, 17 Apr 2004 01:56:03 -0400
Subject: AOP use cases
In-Reply-To: <c5otn0$44o$1@news1.wdf.sap-ag.de>
References: <84fc4588.0404140106.3fa0c55@posting.google.com>	<slrnc7q1ss.1aa.alf@largo.fayauffre.org>	<cb035744.0404141130.170f51c4@posting.google.com>	<slrnc7sgat.vp.alf@largo.fayauffre.org>	<cb035744.0404160442.2f0b1661@posting.google.com>	<0pydnSB4WYuieuLdRVn-hQ@powergate.ca>
	<c5otn0$44o$1@news1.wdf.sap-ag.de>
Message-ID: <4080C6F3.5020309@zope.com>

On 04/16/04 11:22, Daniel Dittmar wrote:
> - persistence
> - transactions: pass a transaction context through a call hierarchy spanning
> several objects and let the transaction fail if certain methods fail

Interesting you should mention these, since ZODB provides transactional, 
transparent object persistence.

> It may very well be that these can be implemented in current Python, but
> this only means that Python already has good support for AOP.

This discussion makes me wonder if Zope has been dabbling in AOP 
concepts for years without knowing it.  In addition to ZODB, Zope lets 
you declare permissions for methods, wraps objects with proxies to give 
them an environment, and inspects method signatures to make them 
directly callable by URL.  The AOP folks talk about very similar things. 
  Surely there is some common thread.

Shane



From jack at performancedrivers.com  Fri Apr 30 13:59:44 2004
From: jack at performancedrivers.com (Jack Diederich)
Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2004 13:59:44 -0400
Subject: Unification of Methods and Functions
In-Reply-To: <ies4909uhi4okgfao9frqnnmsarqqjcpsg@4ax.com>
References: <ies4909uhi4okgfao9frqnnmsarqqjcpsg@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <20040430175944.GA22080@performancedrivers.com>

On Fri, Apr 30, 2004 at 09:47:05AM -0700, David MacQuigg wrote:
> I'm not getting any feedback on the most important benefit in my
> proposed "Ideas for Python 3" thread - the unification of methods and
> functions.  Perhaps it was buried among too many other less important
> changes, so in this thread I would like to focus on that issue alone.
> ======= Syntax Examples =============
> 
> ## Proposed Syntax:
> class Cat(Feline):
>     numCats = 0
>     def __init__( n = "unknown", s = "Meow" ):
>         Feline.__init__()
>         Cat.numCats += 1
>         .name  = n           # Set instance variables.
>         .sound = s
>     def show():              # Define a "static method".
>         Feline.show()
>         print "    Cats:", Cat.numCats
>     def talk():
>         print "My name is ...", .name
>         print "I am a %s from %s" % (.genus, .home)
>         Mammal.talk()      # Call an unbound function.
>         print __self__     ### Diagnostic check.
>       
> cat1 = Cat()            # Create instance.
> bf = cat1.talk          # Make a bound function.
> 
> 
> ## Equivalent Python:
> class Cat(Feline):
>     numCats = 0
>     def __init__(self, n = "unknown", s = "Meow" ):
>         Feline.__init__(self)
>         Cat.numCats += 1
>         self.name  = n
>         self.sound = s
>     def show():
>         Feline.show()
>         print "    Cats:", Cat.numCats
>     show = staticmethod(show)
>     def talk(self):
>         print "My name is ...", self.name
>         print "I am a %s from %s" % (self.genus, self.home)
>         Mammal.talk(self)
>         print self
> 
> cat1 = Cat()            # Create instance.
> bf = cat1.talk          # Make a bound function.
> 
> ========= End of Examples =======
> 

Explicit is better than implicit.
or
Magic BAAAAAAAAD [Phil Hartman as Frankenstein]

I suggest you check out perl to see mixing instance/class/static methods
in practice.  Becuase perl is weakly typed this 'makes sense' in perl, even if
it causes problems[1].  What happens in practice is bad, people write functions
that can be used in two or more ways.  This makes type checking hard, and
makes code unreadable.  Functions frequently do slightly different things when
called one way or another.

For a python version you could do type checking on the function by doing
static analysis of the code, but that would be unpythonic.  I like it when
a static function breaks badly when some yahoo tries to use self -- it breaks
early and loudly.  Your way might only break on a certain code path that
tries to access '.name' and turns the method from static to instance.
If you re-added staticmethod/classmethod to clear up the distinction then
the above example just becomes a new syntax for implicit 'self'.

A version of the ':vars: expression' lambda replacement gets suggested every
so often (and that exact syntax once by me).  It ain't going to happnen, labmda
is more likely to be dropped than enhanced.

-jackdied

[1] standard perl interview question, what is the difference between these
calls?  All of these end up calling meow() with one argument, but they all 
behave differently - sometimes very subtly.

$ob = new Cat;
$ob->meow(); # intsance method
Cat->meow(); # class method
Cat::meow($ob); # static method with first argument a Cat instance



From fumanchu at amor.org  Wed Apr 21 03:10:29 2004
From: fumanchu at amor.org (Robert Brewer)
Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2004 00:10:29 -0700
Subject: No built-in swap function?
Message-ID: <DE1CF2B4FEC4A342BF62B6B2B334601E562033@opus.amorhq.net>

Simon Wittber wrote:
> import time
> def tupleSwap(a,b):a,b = b,a
> def tempSwap(a,b):
>     t = a
>     a = b
>     b = t
> def xorSwap(a,b):
>     a ^= b
>     b ^= a
>     a ^= b
> 1 million tuple swaps in 1.78324228359 seconds.
> 1 million temp swaps in 1.53032270861 seconds.
> 1 million xor swaps in 2.17933312753 seconds.
> 
> Interestingly, using psyco.full() produced these results:
> 1 million tuple swaps in 3.06005958858 seconds.
> 1 million temp swaps in 3.01621882111 seconds.
> 1 million xor swaps in 3.03376686143 seconds.
> 
> The xorswap function is not much use for anything other than numbers,
> however, I would have expected a psyco'ed xorSwap to much faster than
> the alternatives!

Well, the xorswap does the same work as the tempswap, plus the xoring:

>>> def ts(a, b):
... 	t = a
... 	a = b
... 	b = t
... 	
>>> dis.dis(ts)
  2           0 LOAD_FAST                0 (a)
              3 STORE_FAST               2 (t)

  3           6 LOAD_FAST                1 (b)
              9 STORE_FAST               0 (a)

  4          12 LOAD_FAST                2 (t)
             15 STORE_FAST               1 (b)
             18 LOAD_CONST               0 (None)
             21 RETURN_VALUE        


That's 3 LOAD_FAST, and 3 STORE_FAST operations.

>>> def xs(a, b):
... 	a ^= b
... 	b ^= a
... 	a ^= b
... 	
>>> dis.dis(xs)
  2           0 LOAD_FAST                0 (a)
              3 LOAD_FAST                1 (b)
              6 INPLACE_XOR         
              7 STORE_FAST               0 (a)

  3          10 LOAD_FAST                1 (b)
             13 LOAD_FAST                0 (a)
             16 INPLACE_XOR         
             17 STORE_FAST               1 (b)

  4          20 LOAD_FAST                0 (a)
             23 LOAD_FAST                1 (b)
             26 INPLACE_XOR         
             27 STORE_FAST               0 (a)
             30 LOAD_CONST               0 (None)
             33 RETURN_VALUE        

That's 6 LOAD_FAST, and 3 STORE_FAST operations, plus XOR'ing.


Robert Brewer
MIS
Amor Ministries
fumanchu at amor.org



From des.small at bristol.ac.uk  Tue Apr 20 10:15:39 2004
From: des.small at bristol.ac.uk (Des Small)
Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 14:15:39 GMT
Subject: Dollar sign ($) on foriegn keyboards? (prothon)
References: <mk3hc.13895$dZ1.10823@fed1read04>
Message-ID: <yyrjpta2d9bx.fsf@pc156.maths.bris.ac.uk>

"Mark Hahn" <mark at prothon.org> writes:

> Can people from outside the U.S. tell me if typing the dollar sign often
> would be a problem in writing code?  Is it available and somewhat easy to
> type on international keyboards?

The dollar sign is used in extensively in Unix shells and Perl, which
are both widely used (Perl also on Windows).  It seems unlikely that
any keyboard with a latin alphabet wouldn't include it.

Des
types in a wide variety of dollar-equipped iso encodings.
-- 
"[T]he structural trend in linguistics which took root with the
International Congresses of the twenties and early thirties [...] had
close and effective connections with phenomenology in its Husserlian
and Hegelian versions." -- Roman Jakobson


From paul at prescod.net  Sun Apr 11 11:38:04 2004
From: paul at prescod.net (Paul Prescod)
Date: Sun, 11 Apr 2004 08:38:04 -0700
Subject: Python is the best and most popular general purpose scripting
 language; the universal scripting language
In-Reply-To: <20040410232500.GB17123@vulcan.cprogrammer.org>
References: <a5415304.0404101350.271088f2@posting.google.com>	<roy-22B4DA.18282210042004@reader1.panix.com>	<20040410225019.GA16891@vulcan.cprogrammer.org>	<40788033.3030209@prescod.net>
	<20040410232500.GB17123@vulcan.cprogrammer.org>
Message-ID: <4079665C.6010006@prescod.net>

Jonathan Daugherty wrote:

> # So which is Lisp? Prolog? Smalltalk? ML?
> 
> I didn't claim that it necessarily holds for every language. :)

But you didn't really answer the question. Is Lisp a scripting language 
or not? If not, why?

> # A scripting language is a language that makes scripting (gluing together 
> # components) easy.
> 
> You're defining it in terms of itself; what is scripting?  The use of
> scripting languages, or the accomplishment of tasks quickly and
> easily?  Some would argue the latter can be done with programming
> languages.

Scripting is the gluing together of components potentially written in a 
variety of languages.

> # A programming language is a language that makes programming (including 
> # the creation of components) easy.
> 
> By this metric many languages are both, since the definition is
> subjective.

Yes. The term is both historical and subjective. If you try to draw any 
line in the sand you will find outliers like Lisp and even Java (which 
is bytecode interpreted just as Python is) will cause you problems. 
There are compilers for Python and interpreters for C.

  Paul Prescod





From jcarlson at uci.edu  Wed Apr 21 11:36:01 2004
From: jcarlson at uci.edu (Josiah Carlson)
Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2004 08:36:01 -0700
Subject: No built-in swap function?
In-Reply-To: <mailman.827.1082537634.20120.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.822.1082526479.20120.python-list@python.org>	<c656c7$7nq$1@news.service.uci.edu>
	<mailman.827.1082537634.20120.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <c664jq$6bq$1@news.service.uci.edu>

>>> The xorswap function is not much use for anything other than numbers,
>>> however, I would have expected a psyco'ed xorSwap to much faster than
>>> the alternatives!
>>
>>
>>
>> You are testing function calling overhead.  Try the below...
>>
>> import time
>>
>> def tupleswap(a,b):
>>     t = time.time()
>>     for i in xrange(100000):
>>         a,b=b,a;a,b=b,a;a,b=b,a;a,b=b,a;a,b=b,a;
>>         a,b=b,a;a,b=b,a;a,b=b,a;a,b=b,a;a,b=b,a;
>>     print "1 million tuple swaps in", time.time()-t, "seconds."
> 
> 
> AFAIK, this seems to be 10 thousand instead of 1 million (and 10 mil 
> instead of 100 mil for
> the psyco test).

You need to check your eyes.  In tupleswap, the xrange is 100,000, and 
the body of the for loop contains 10 tuple swaps, where 'a,b=b,a;' is 
one tuple swap.

Similarly for tempswap, the xrange is 100,000, and the body of the for 
loop contains 10 'swaps using a temporary variable', where 
't=a;a=b;b=a;' is considered a single 'swap' of the a and b values, 
using 't' as a temporary value.

This is also equivalent to the xor swap, where 'a^=b;b^=a;a^=b;' is a 
single xor swap, 10 in the body, etc.


It should be trivial (by simple multiplication) that each conceptual 
swap is done 1 million times.  For the big psyco test, I used a bigger 
xrange (100 times bigger in fact), which puts it at 100 million.

Again, check your eyes.

  - Josiah


From jason at tishler.net  Fri Apr 30 16:54:47 2004
From: jason at tishler.net (Jason Tishler)
Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2004 16:54:47 -0400
Subject: Python Image Library (PIL) build error on Cygwin
In-Reply-To: <4092AB1C.8050101@holdenweb.com>
References: <tBdkc.8799$f_5.5103@lakeread01>
	<mailman.127.1083272332.25742.python-list@python.org>
	<40928190.5060004@holdenweb.com>
	<20040430193031.GA1728@tishler.net>
	<4092AB1C.8050101@holdenweb.com>
Message-ID: <20040430205447.GA1620@tishler.net>

Steve,

On Fri, Apr 30, 2004 at 03:38:04PM -0400, Steve Holden wrote:
> Unfortunately that doesn't seem to help:

The following may be helpful:

    http://www.cygwin.com/ml/cygwin/2003-06/msg01121.html

Jason

-- 
PGP/GPG Key: http://www.tishler.net/jason/pubkey.asc or key servers
Fingerprint: 7A73 1405 7F2B E669 C19D  8784 1AFD E4CC ECF4 8EF6



From sdahlbac at abo.fi  Fri Apr 23 03:25:35 2004
From: sdahlbac at abo.fi (Simon Dahlbacka)
Date: 23 Apr 2004 00:25:35 -0700
Subject: from vh3 import virthost / AddVirtDomain / Ensim / Apache
References: <c520nj$2ndag2$1@ID-59554.news.uni-berlin.de>
	<2a9bf4b4.0404221415.4313d267@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <ab4c5633.0404222325.16e62d32@posting.google.com>

arch at spyre.net (A. Y. Chen) wrote in message news:<2a9bf4b4.0404221415.4313d267 at posting.google.com>...
> Hi, I'm trying to do the same thing and getting the exact same problem
> as you. Have you had any luck? Part of the difficulty is that the
> files virthost.py and virtutil.py are probably compiles (in .pyc
> form), and not located in those directories shown in the trace.
> However, I still get the same error after I chmod those files.
> 
> 
> 
> "Dan Messenger" <NO-SPAM-PLEASEdanmessenga at hotmail.com> wrote in message news:<c520nj$2ndag2$1 at ID-59554.news.uni-berlin.de>...
> > Hi,
> > 
> > I'm new to python, and am trying to use some premade scripts on RedHat 7,
> > but its giving me errors.
> > 
> > The scripts are part of the Ensim hosting software, and when I run the
> > command "AddVirtDomain" from a root shell, it works fine.
> > 
> > However when I call it from my php page, and thus running under the apache
> > user, I get the following error:
> > 
> > Traceback (most recent call last):
> > File "/usr/local/bin/AddVirtDomain", line 26, in ?
> > from vh3 import virthost
> > File "virtualhosting/virthost.py", line 46, in ?
> > File
> > "/home/build/qa/webppliance/3.1.11/2/lwp/vaishali2/WebGui/base/services/vh3/
> > virtualhosting/virtutil.py", line 14, in ?
> > ImportError: No module named logging

..are you sure that php is running the same version of python as you
from the command line. the logging module is a standard one, BUT it is
only available in python >= 2.3

/Simon


From project2501 at project2501.cor  Thu Apr  8 04:21:44 2004
From: project2501 at project2501.cor (project2501)
Date: Thu, 08 Apr 2004 09:21:44 +0100
Subject: python thread scheduler?
References: <mailman.424.1081354825.20120.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <pan.2004.04.08.08.21.40.469000@project2501.cor>


at the bottom is a reply i got on the comp.prgramming.threads group... it
sufggests there is no programmatic way to improve client request rate ona
uni-processor machine... do you agree? i think i agree with the person
suggesting the only solutionis more horsepower. 

will twisted help even after this consideration? i had a look at twisted a
while back (re: asyncore) and it seemed overly complex...


On Wed, 07 Apr 2004 16:20:19 +0000, exarkun wrote:

>  utilizes a global lock which prevents more than one Python thread from running at any particular time.  You will not see performance scale well with large numbers of threads (indeed, performance will probably be worse).

Subject:      Re: threads not switching fast enough one a 1-cpu system?
From:         steve at nospam.Watt.COM (Steve Watt)
Newsgroups:   comp.programming.threads
Date:         Wed, 7 Apr 2004 19:31:31 GMT

In article <pan.2004.04.07.15.10.17.891000 at project2501.cor>,
  project2501  <project2501 at project2501.cor> wrote:
>i'm trying to becnhmark a server software. simply throwing requests at it
>sequentially, however small the interval, is not stressing the server.

That means your server is able to serve whatever you're using as a test
client.  Probably good news.

>forking() children to throw requests quickly fills up the memory and swap
>until the client machine breaks.

Why do you think making more processes will make more requests per
unit time?

>threading (using python and also stackless python for now) lets me have
>plenty of threads (i've tried up to 100). however my responce time graphs
>are flat (although more threads means higher flat graph)... 

Why do you think making more threads will make more requests per
unit time?

>... which indicates the that the bottleneck being measured is the thread
>swicthing... and that not enough threads are actually running "parallel"
>enough. 

No, it indicates that it takes no longer to service a request than it
does to generate it.  If you've got one client machine and one server
machine, your server is probably faster than your client, or your
requests are easy for the server.

You need more client horsepower.  It is not uncommon, when doing big
load testing, to use a dozen or more machines against a single server to
really exercise the overload behavior.

Creating threads or processes does not create computing power.  In fact,
it ALWAYS* reduces the amount of CPU available to user code, because
of the increased state maintenance.

So you need to procure more CPU cycles from somewhere, or make requests
that take the server longer to complete.

* OK, SMP machines are allowed a thread/process per CPU.
-- 
Steve Watt KD6GGD  PP-ASEL-IA          ICBM: 121W 56' 57.8" / 37N 20' 14.9"
 Internet: steve @ Watt.COM                         Whois: SW32
   Free time?  There's no such thing.  It just comes in varying prices...



From mwilson at the-wire.com  Tue Apr 13 12:47:34 2004
From: mwilson at the-wire.com (Mel Wilson)
Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2004 12:47:34 -0400
Subject: Random Numbers and a thought
References: <107m6f0t4i0gnff@corp.supernews.com>
	<ctednRIVbfzSgObdRVn-gQ@powergate.ca>
	<107m8qvphrjd303@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <mmBfAls/KjjO089yn@the-wire.com>

In article <107m8qvphrjd303 at corp.supernews.com>, "A Evans" <ae> wrote:
>Basically I would like to create an application that takes a series of
>random numbers generated by a computer and searches for the pattern inside
>those numbers [ ... ]
>I guess if the numbers were between say 1 and 1000 it would take 1000 inputs
>to understand the pattern if not more I would like to solve it before that

   The canonical reference is Donald E. Knuth, _The Art of
Computer Programming_, vol.II "Seminumerical Algorithms",
probably from page 38.  If you have the time and
inclination, it should be fun, at least at the start.

        Good Luck.      Mel.


From jonas at jonasgalvez.com  Wed Apr 21 14:22:50 2004
From: jonas at jonasgalvez.com (Jonas Galvez)
Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2004 15:22:50 -0300
Subject: Stupid Regex Question
References: <DE1CF2B4FEC4A342BF62B6B2B334601E562035@opus.amorhq.net><c66d3k$m80$1@sea.gmane.org>
	<c66do6$nud$1@sea.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <c66e9a$paj$1@sea.gmane.org>

> [Fredrik Lundh]
> a few posts back, you "top-posted" a followup to your own post.

Oh... saw that now. Sorry :-)




Jonas







From harry.g.george at boeing.com  Tue Apr 20 12:51:09 2004
From: harry.g.george at boeing.com (Harry George)
Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 16:51:09 GMT
Subject: report generators
References: <425cc8d1.0404200505.4bce8dc2@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <xqxbrlmioea.fsf@cola2.ca.boeing.com>

mir4uu at yahoo.com (mir nazim) writes:

> hi,
> i wanted 2 know if there is any report generator for python/linux that
> produces reports in variety of formats e.g html/images/jpeg/png etc.
> i  know about report lab but output is pdf. pdf is ok for printing but
> u need a pdf viewer for viewing it. there should be some thing that
> cen viewed from directly from application e.g gtkhtml for gtk, khtml
> for kde etc.

"directly from application" seems odd, since both pdf and html rely on
viewers to get the text onto the display.  

I think most python-to-xyz-format tools go through some neutral format
such as docbook or latex.  The python tool is used to generate those
neutral formats more easily from simpler markups.

My Pdx (http://www.seanet.com/~hgg9140/comp/index.html) does that.  It
goes directly to html, goes via latex to ps, pdf, and html, and goes
via docbook to ps, pdf, html, rtf.  It is from the era of Perl POD.

These days, I'd look at OpenOffice, which can directly generate many
formats, and can be manipulated in xml format.  Python could do that
manipulation.  Or, work with the UDK via python bindings
http://udk.openoffice.org/

-- 
harry.g.george at boeing.com
6-6M21 BCA CompArch Design Engineering
Phone: (425) 342-0007


From http  Tue Apr 20 15:09:09 2004
From: http (Paul Rubin)
Date: 20 Apr 2004 12:09:09 -0700
Subject: Difficulty Finding Python Developers
References: <65cbc3dd.0404140641.3501fde8@posting.google.com>
	<roy-A69D29.18562119042004@reader2.panix.com>
	<c63blu$96i$1@sea.gmane.org>
	<mailman.808.1082478057.20120.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <7xekqi31re.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

"Mike C. Fletcher" <mcfletch at rogers.com> writes:
> > You probably already realized this, but that should've been $45 to
> > $55 per hour.
> 
> *I* didn't realise that, I assumed $45,000/year to $55,000/year annual
> rate, which would be a reasonable rate in Canada (in Canadian dollars
> even) for a programmer with 1 or 2 years of experience.  I'd forgotten
> just how well Americans get paid for having fun... but at least our
> taxes are higher :) .

If you're a contractor, you get no employee benefits like health
insurance, no paid vacation or paid time off if you get sick, and no
expectation of having a steady job (the job is just for 3 months and
then you expect to be looking for work again).  Plus you pay more
taxes (there's a FICA tax of about 14% that you and your employer each
pay 50% of if you're an employee, but you pay 100% of it if you're a
contractor), plus you have to file tax returns every 3 months instead
of once a year.  Because of all that, it's normal for the hourly rate
for contract programmers to be about 2x the equivalent hourly rate for
staff programmers, i.e. a $50/hour 3-month contract job is equivalent
to about a $50k/year staff job.  In the current economy where there's
lots of unemployment, contract work is quite hard to find (contractors
are usually the first to get chopped when a company needs to cut
expenses, since it's much easier to just not renew a contract than to
actually lay off an employee), so the contracting market is worse than
usual, which means that $50/hour is pretty good, especially for an
area like Atlanta, which has lower expenses (and lower wages) than an
area like Silicon Valley.


From mhammond at keypoint.com.au  Thu Apr 29 01:02:42 2004
From: mhammond at keypoint.com.au (Mark Hammond)
Date: Thu, 29 Apr 2004 15:02:42 +1000
Subject: COM, IDL, and enum
In-Reply-To: <9e5ea2c4.0404281215.25a0f9b3@posting.google.com>
References: <9e5ea2c4.0404281215.25a0f9b3@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <c6q29s$1eqh$1@arachne.labyrinth.net.au>

Olaf Meding wrote:

> How do I access the values of the enum "ERLockStatus" specified in the
> (abreviated IDL) file below?

You must ensure that makepy has been run for your object - this 
generally just means calling gencache.EnsureDispatch() to create your 
object.  Once the makepy'd file for the IDL has been loaded, the 
constants will be available as "win32com.client.constants.constant_name"

Mark


From mikalzetTogli at interfree.it  Tue Apr  6 07:58:00 2004
From: mikalzetTogli at interfree.it (TaeKyon)
Date: Tue, 06 Apr 2004 11:58:00 GMT
Subject: recursive file editing
References: <pan.2004.04.03.20.25.28.565809@interfree.it>
	<c4on0d$frb$02$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <pan.2004.04.06.11.57.59.82978@interfree.it>

Il Sun, 04 Apr 2004 12:11:25 +0200, Peter Otten ha scritto:

> The following code comes with no warranties. Be sure to backup valuable data
> before trying it. You may need to edit the regular expressions. Call the
> script with the directory you want to process.

Seems to work all right ! 
I have a question:

> class Path(object):
# multiple function definitions follow, amongst which:     

> def files(rootfolder):
>     for folder, folders, files in os.walk(rootfolder):
>         for name in files:
>             yield Path(folder, name)

So 'Path' is the name of a class and _contemporaneously_ the 
result of one of the functions the class contains ?
Or are there really two separate 'Path' things which don't interfere
because each has its own namepace ?  

I'm sorry for the repeated questions, maybe I should take this discussion
over to the tutor mailing list !

--  
Michele Alzetta



From mab at iee  Fri Apr  9 05:46:59 2004
From: mab at iee (Marco Bartel)
Date: Fri, 09 Apr 2004 11:46:59 +0200
Subject: connection with MySQL with Python interface
In-Reply-To: <mailman.478.1081485549.20120.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.478.1081485549.20120.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <407671d0$1@news.vo.lu>

pengz1 at netzero.com wrote:
> Hi! All
> When I tried to connect with MySQL database which run on XP from shell. I got following error message. Has anyone get similar error message and provide any suggestion? Thanks in advance. 
> 
> Zhiyong
> 
> 
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "C:\Python22\databaseAccess.py", line 4, in ?
>     con=MySQLdb.connect(host="127.0.0.1",port=3306,user="pengz",passwd="zhiy4318",db="e_retail_store")
>   File "C:\PYTHON22\Lib\site-packages\MySQLdb\__init__.py", line 63, in Connect
>     return apply(Connection, args, kwargs)
>   File "C:\PYTHON22\Lib\site-packages\MySQLdb\connections.py", line 115, in __init__
>     self._make_connection(args, kwargs2)
>   File "C:\PYTHON22\Lib\site-packages\MySQLdb\connections.py", line 41, in _make_connection
>     apply(super(ConnectionBase, self).__init__, args, kwargs)
> OperationalError: (2003, "Can't connect to MySQL server on '127.0.0.1' (10061)")
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "C:\Python22\databaseAccess.py", line 4, in ?
>     con=MySQLdb.connect(host="127.0.0.1",port=3306,user="pengz",passwd="zhiy4318",db="e_retail_store")
>   File "C:\PYTHON22\Lib\site-packages\MySQLdb\__init__.py", line 63, in Connect
>     return apply(Connection, args, kwargs)
>   File "C:\PYTHON22\Lib\site-packages\MySQLdb\connections.py", line 115, in __init__
>     self._make_connection(args, kwargs2)
>   File "C:\PYTHON22\Lib\site-packages\MySQLdb\connections.py", line 41, in _make_connection
>     apply(super(ConnectionBase, self).__init__, args, kwargs)
> OperationalError: (1250, 'Client does not support authentication protocol requested by server; consider upgrading MySQL client')
> 
> ________________________________________________________________
> The best thing to hit the Internet in years - NetZero HiSpeed!
> Surf the Web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER!
> Only $14.95/ month -visit www.netzero.com to sign up today!
> 

Hi Zhiyong,
I think this error is raised by an incompatible clientlibrary shipped 
with mysql. You have to know that a client needs to have a mysql-client 
library and a mysql-shared library, for accessing a mysql-database. 
Under windows I only used mysql with win2000 not with XP, but when i 
remember right, the client, and the shared-library are not part of the 
main mysql-package, and have to be downloaded and installed seperatly.

Maybe I helped you a little bit, becaus e the code of your program looks 
fine.

CU
Marco



From arigo at tunes.org  Sat Apr  3 17:17:53 2004
From: arigo at tunes.org (Armin Rigo)
Date: Sat, 3 Apr 2004 22:17:53 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Python is faster than C
References: <406F0907.96F37EA1@tunes.org>
	<c4n9qf$jgq$1@news-reader4.wanadoo.fr>
Message-ID: <406F3A33.70FB70CC@tunes.org>

Michel Claveau/Hamster wrote:
> For the 1st April, it's finish.

Check it for yourself.  Find yourself an Intel machine and grab Psyco
from http://psyco.sf.net.  Here is the source of my test:

# Python Quicksort Written by Magnus Lie Hetland
# http://www.hetland.org/python/quicksort.html

def _partition(list, start, end):
    pivot = list[end]
    bottom = start-1
    top = end

    done = 0
    while not done:

        while not done:
            bottom = bottom+1

            if bottom == top:
                done = 1
                break

            if pivot < list[bottom]:
                list[top] = list[bottom]
                break

        while not done:
            top = top-1
            
            if top == bottom:
                done = 1
                break

            if list[top] < pivot:
                list[bottom] = list[top]
                break

    list[top] = pivot
    return top


def _quicksort(list, start, end):
    if start < end:
        split = _partition(list, start, end)
        _quicksort(list, start, split-1)
        _quicksort(list, split+1, end)

def quicksort(list):
    if len(list) > 1:
        _quicksort(list, 0, len(list)-1)

# ____________________________________________________________

import random, time, psyco
l = range(100000)
random.shuffle(l)

#TIMEIT = "l.sort()"
#TIMEIT = "quicksort(l)"
TIMEIT = "psyco.proxy(quicksort)(l)"


print TIMEIT, ':',
t = time.time()
exec TIMEIT
print time.time() - t

assert l == range(100000)


From greg at cosc.canterbury.ac.nz  Wed Apr 21 03:59:11 2004
From: greg at cosc.canterbury.ac.nz (greg)
Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2004 19:59:11 +1200
Subject: Dollar sign ($) on foriegn keyboards? (prothon)
References: <mk3hc.13895$dZ1.10823@fed1read04>
	<c62m70$2hu$06$1@news.t-online.com>
	<slrnc89q11.pnv.joe@gate.notcharles.ca>
	<c631kk$9j9$04$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <408629CF.30004@cosc.canterbury.ac.nz>

Peter Otten wrote:
> This starts with the name, by the way - it evokes the
> association of prothotype, which looks quite, er, ungreek :-)

Indeed. It sounds more like an alien race that's
escaped from an upcoming StarCraft expansion pack...

Greg



From moosebumps at moosebumps.com  Fri Apr  2 03:46:22 2004
From: moosebumps at moosebumps.com (Moosebumps)
Date: Fri, 02 Apr 2004 08:46:22 GMT
Subject: HTML writer
Message-ID: <yL9bc.45202$wH3.33614@newssvr25.news.prodigy.com>

Is there a standard solution for writing HTML web pages with Python?  I
don't know that much about web programming, but basically I want to generate
some internal reports on a web page.

It doesn't need to be fancy, just basic tables and linking, maybe indexing
and navigation, but I want it to all look nice and I want to be able to
change the formatting easily without combing through source code (hence my
next question about CSS).

I know there newer things like CSS and XHTML -- are these more or less
effort to generate?  i.e. are they more complicated, or do they have more
uniform syntax?  What do they necessarily buy you?

I searched the python website and I have seen HTML parsers, but no examples
of generators.  I searched for "Python HTML" and "Python CSS" and found some
stuff -- but it doesn't seem like there is a "standard" solution that is
EASY for non-expert web programmers to use.  I am an experienced
programming, but I don't know that much about all the alphabet soup that is
web programming.

thanks,
MB




From goodger at python.org  Tue Apr 27 19:58:03 2004
From: goodger at python.org (David Goodger)
Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2004 19:58:03 -0400
Subject: Backticks: What up?
In-Reply-To: <PZCcnT7qvI2rchPdRWPC-w@speakeasy.net>
References: <PZCcnT7qvI2rchPdRWPC-w@speakeasy.net>
Message-ID: <408EF38B.1040108@python.org>

Backticks are equivalent to repr().  For any x:

     `x` == repr(x)

Nothing to do with the return statement.

-- David Goodger




From lbates at swamisoft.com  Tue Apr  6 21:18:00 2004
From: lbates at swamisoft.com (Larry Bates)
Date: Tue, 6 Apr 2004 20:18:00 -0500
Subject: jpg, jpeg metadata
References: <8a560941.0403301948.146d251@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <s9mdnQz3BbxWy-7dRVn-uw@comcast.com>

Take a look a jhead.exe.  You can easily use os.system
to call it from python.

http://www.sentex.net/~mwandel/jhead/usage.html

Regards,
Larry Bates
Syscon, Inc.


"helmi03" <helmi03 at yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:8a560941.0403301948.146d251 at posting.google.com...
> does anyone know how to get/set jpg or other image types metadata using
Python.
> I had search in vault of parnassus and PIL, but only can read the EXIF.
>
> Long live Python!




From JimJJewett at yahoo.com  Thu Apr  1 00:34:10 2004
From: JimJJewett at yahoo.com (Jim Jewett)
Date: 31 Mar 2004 21:34:10 -0800
Subject: easylog alpha
Message-ID: <mailman.1080823022.15066.clpa-moderators@python.org>

The standard library's logging package is very powerful, but it doesn't scale 
*down* well.  easylog is an attempt to better serve one-liner and midweight 
usage.

easylog is available from http://sourceforge.net/projects/easylog/ 
under the Python Software Foundation license.

easylog relies on an underlying logging package, so it will benefit from future 
improvements to the core logging package.  (Unfortunately, treating another 
module as a black box to inherit from left some of the internals ... ugly.)

I would particularly appreciate feedback on what should be cleaned up before 
it leaves alpha/beta status.

-jJ



From faassen at infrae.com  Fri Apr 23 11:34:08 2004
From: faassen at infrae.com (Martijn Faassen)
Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2004 17:34:08 +0200
Subject: EuroPython update april 23
Message-ID: <mailman.1082735345.13151.clpa-moderators@python.org>

EuroPython news update
======================

EuroPython is the European Python and Zope Conference. This year in
its third edition, we are holding the conference in the beautiful
locale of G?teborg, Sweden. Hundreds of Python users and Zope users
are expected.

- If you still want to submit a talk, note that the talk submission
   deadline is approaching very rapidly. You have until monday the 26th
   of april to submit your talk proposal. As an extra incentive, note
   that speakers participate at a reduced fee.

- The early bird registration deadline is also very near now; after
   may 1st the rate will go up by 60 euros from 160 to 220. We also
   still have (very) cheap accomodation available, but this is running
   out quickly. So please register now!

- The conference program is really shaping up nicely! We'll have
   tracks on topics ranging from core python hacking to social skills,
   and of course Zope. There will be tutorials, BoFs, lightning talks
   and panel discussions. Many of us are arriving early and/or staying
   on after the conference for a couple of days for sprints or other
   activities.

- Our keynote speakers will be Mark Shuttleworth and Guido van
   Rossum.

   Mark Shuttleworth was among other things what we think is the first
   Python programmer in space. He is also is the sponsor of
   the schooltool project to develop an open source school
   administration system in Python. More about about him can be found at
   http://www.markshuttleworth.com/

   If you don't know who Guido van Rossum is, you really need to come
   to EuroPython to find out and meet him.

More information can be found at http://www.europython.org. See you at
EuroPython 2004!



From deetsNOSPAM at web.de  Tue Apr 13 11:12:12 2004
From: deetsNOSPAM at web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2004 17:12:12 +0200
Subject: 3D Graphics Engine
References: <8089854e.0404130639.3eb0db62@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <c5h0ce$1hhgk$1@ID-111250.news.uni-berlin.de>

> Can anyone reccomend a 3d engine for me to 'muck around with'.

Didn't check it myself, but blender migth be what you are looking for....
-- 
Regards,

Diez B. Roggisch


From daniel.dittmar at sap.com  Thu Apr  8 06:09:01 2004
From: daniel.dittmar at sap.com (Daniel Dittmar)
Date: Thu, 8 Apr 2004 12:09:01 +0200
Subject: why is python better than eg. smalltalk?? no one has any solid
	arguments! you should all go to church with all that religious talk!
References: <20031028061245.12451.00000133@mb-m01.aol.com>
	<mailman.237.1067515722.702.python-list@python.org>
	<opr53783cbmyya52@news.kadnet.dom>
Message-ID: <c538bu$qok$1@news1.wdf.sap-ag.de>

Carlo v. Dango wrote:
> OK, I'm on the python wagon as well, but I do not really se much
> improvement over JAVA... especially when it comes to maintaining and
> reusing code (e.g. API's)... here the types are really helpful. So

If you name a post with a subject about 'python and smalltalk' and then
start about 'python and java', then bondage and discipline languages are
definitely the right thing for you ;-)

The topic of static vs. dynamic types been discussed a lot here and
elsewhere.

> Also, I see all this advocacy of python which to me seems more like
> religion.. there is no concretenes in it, and I completely fail to
> see how python beats any of the other dynamically typed languages
> such as smalltalk or self... what is it with you guys? :)

When I started using Python, there were two reasons:
- no good free eimplementation of Smalltalk
- Smalltalk doesn't scale well to small tasks

Point 1 has probably changed with Squeak. But I'd really have to use it for
a while to be confident enough to inflict it upon others.

Don't know about point 2: When I had a new version of some small 'script', I
had only the alternatives
* to distribute full images
* to distribute source which the users had to integrate into their images
Maybe this has changed as well.


Daniel





From peter at engcorp.com  Mon Apr 19 08:07:57 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Mon, 19 Apr 2004 08:07:57 -0400
Subject: AOP use cases
In-Reply-To: <m3n058ql93.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk>
References: <84fc4588.0404140106.3fa0c55@posting.google.com>
	<slrnc7q1ss.1aa.alf@largo.fayauffre.org>
	<cb035744.0404141130.170f51c4@posting.google.com>
	<slrnc7sgat.vp.alf@largo.fayauffre.org>
	<cb035744.0404160442.2f0b1661@posting.google.com>
	<0pydnSB4WYuieuLdRVn-hQ@powergate.ca>
	<35qdnT4kNsX1kB3dRVn-gg@powergate.ca>
	<m3n058ql93.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <Eb-dnX5hDMWAXB7dRVn-iQ@powergate.ca>

Michael Hudson wrote:
> Peter Hansen <peter at engcorp.com> writes:
>>Peter Hansen wrote:
>>
>>>I would be very interested to hear some real-world and real useful
>>>use cases for AOP as well.  So far, the logging example seems to
>>>be put forth so often that I'm starting to suspect that's the
>>>*only* "useful" thing people are doing with it. :-)
>>> From direct personal experience, could some AOP folks please
>>>point out some compelling use cases so that the doubting
>>>Thomases (and Wills, and Peters) can better understand and
>>>accept the idea of AOP as being more than just a few fringe
>>>cases?
>>
>>Thanks for the replies so far, but what concerns me is that
>>almost no one seems to have actually used AOP in their code.
> 
> What do you understand "AOP" to mean?  One meaning of "AOP" seems to
> be a collection of techniques and tools to make programming in the
> Java environment a pleasanter experience.  This meaning hardly applies
> to programming in Python...

I have no predefined meaning.  I'm not about to run out and
spend a lot of time researching something for which I have
no reason (yet) to believe there is a practical use which would
solve any problems I have.  I'm hoping that someone here can
point out such uses and help define the meaning for Python folks
such as me.

Yours is at least the second comment suggesting that AOP is a
somewhat Java-specific, or at least shows more obvious use in the
Java world (of heavy static typing) than in the Python world.

-Peter


From junkmail at solumslekt.org  Fri Apr  2 04:30:28 2004
From: junkmail at solumslekt.org (Leif B. Kristensen)
Date: Fri, 02 Apr 2004 11:30:28 +0200
Subject: String concatenation
References: <wS8bc.4382$px6.64058@news2.e.nsc.no>
	<7xisgi24fm.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<Rz9bc.4514$zf6.60676@news4.e.nsc.no>
	<406D27A7.6550A00B@alcyone.com>
	<ZW9bc.4389$px6.64242@news2.e.nsc.no>
	<406D2CD5.878EBD4E@alcyone.com>
	<d9abc.4519$zf6.60744@news4.e.nsc.no>
	<406D2FA2.6E5118CC@alcyone.com>
Message-ID: <Nmabc.4393$px6.64291@news2.e.nsc.no>

Erik Max Francis wrote:

> Maybe it's grabbing tabs, or obscure unprintable whitespace you can't
> see.  Certainly what you're pasting in to these posts is intended,
> whether or not you did that manually.
 
It may be a bug in KWrite. As I entered it manually, I noticed that the
pasted text wasn't syntax highlighted.

Yeah, I know -- I should use a real editor, like vi or emacs ;-)

regards,
-- 
Leif Biberg Kristensen
http://solumslekt.org/
Validare necesse est


From lbates at swamisoft.com  Tue Apr  6 21:13:37 2004
From: lbates at swamisoft.com (Larry Bates)
Date: Tue, 6 Apr 2004 20:13:37 -0500
Subject: Reading binary using a struct - behavour not as expected? 
References: <40712544$1@mail.hmgcc.gov.uk>
Message-ID: <4cudnTewUMQjyO7dRVn-ig@comcast.com>

Rich,

Ok, your problem is this:

When you define attributes immediately after
the class definition they are SHARED among
all instances of the class. Basically they are
global (actually this can come in handy if you
want to keep counters across class instances).
You were copying into lastcopy, but everytime
you unpacked, you overwrote your shared attributes.

Try this instead:

class PCAPPacketHdr:
    #
    # Attributes defined here are global across
    # instances of this class.
    #
    FormatString = "LLLL"

    def __init__(self):
        #
        # Attributes defined here are local to
        # the class instance.
        #
        self.TSSec = None
        self.TSUSec = None
        self.InclclLen = None
        self.OrigLen = None
        return

This will share FormatString (it doesn't change),
but have individual attributes for the other
values you wish to be unique between two different
instances of the class.

Regards,
Larry Bates
Syscon, Inc.

"richardd" <richardd at hmgcc.gov.uk> wrote in message
news:40712544$1 at mail.hmgcc.gov.uk...
> Hi,
> I am writing code to deal with PCAP files. I have a PCAP dump and I am
> looking at the timestamps in the PCAP packet headers to see if they are in
> the correct order in the file. To do this I have a class called
> PCAPPacketHdr as follows
>
> import struct
>
> class PCAPPacketHdr:
>     FormatString = "LLLL"
>     TSSec = None
>     TSUSec = None
>     InclLen = None
>     OrigLen = None
>
>     def Pack(self):
>         return struct.pack( self.FormatString, self.TSSec, self.TSUSec,
> self.InclLen, self.OrigLen )
>
>     def Unpack(self, buffer):
>         self.TSSec, self.TSUSec, self.InclLen, self.OrigLen =
> struct.unpack( self.FormatString, buffer )
>
>     def Size(self):
>         return struct.calcsize (self.FormatString)
>
>
> I then have code which opens up the file (skipping the PCAP file magic
> number and PCAP file header), and reads in each packet header as follows:
>
> while not eof:
>      #read in PCAPPacketHdr
>      buf = curFile.read(packetHdr.Size())
>      if len(buf) == packetHdr.Size():
>          packetHdr.Unpack(buf)
>          if lastPacketHdr != None:
>              if lastPacketHdr.TSSec > packetHdr.TSSec:
>                  outputFile.write("ERROR: Packet TSSec earlier than last
> one: \n")
>                  outputFile.write("       Last Packet
> "+repr(lastPacketHdr.TSSec)+"."+repr(lastPacketHdr.TSUSec)+"\n")
>              elif lastPacketHdr.TSSec == packetHdr.TSSec:
>                  if lastPacketHdr.TSUSec > packetHdr.TSUSec:
>                      outputFile.write("ERROR: Packet TSUSec earlier than
> last one\n")
>                      outputFile.write("       Last Packet
> "+repr(lastPacketHdr.TSSec)+"."+repr(lastPacketHdr.TSUSec)+"\n")
>          outputFile.write("       Packet
> "+repr(packetHdr.TSSec)+"."+repr(packetHdr.TSUSec)+"\n")
>          lastPacketHdr = copy.deepcopy(packetHdr)
>          #skip packet payload
>          packetPayload = curFile.read(packetHdr.InclLen)
>      else:
>          eof = True
>
>
> This code appears to work fine for extracting the timestamps from the
file,
> the repr( ) calls on the timestamps allow me to write them to the output
> file correctly, it's just the comparison operators don't appear to be
> working as I would expect. It appears than when the TSUSec timestamp is
the
> same as the previous one in the data I input, it reports "ERROR: Packet
> TSUSec earlier than last one".
>
> This makes me think that the comparison operators aren't acting on the
data
> as longs as I expected.
>
> Can anyone shed some light on what I'm doing wrong, I'm still very new to
> Python.
>
> Thanks in advance,
>
> Rich
>
>




From bignose-hates-spam at and-benfinney-does-too.id.au  Sun Apr  4 23:19:18 2004
From: bignose-hates-spam at and-benfinney-does-too.id.au (Ben Finney)
Date: 5 Apr 2004 13:09:18 +0950
Subject: How to assign a default constant value in a function declaration
References: <mailman.341.1081121191.20120.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <slrnc71l76.g1j.bignose-hates-spam@iris.polar.local>

On Sun, 4 Apr 2004 19:26:30 -0400, Vineet Jain wrote:
> The following does not work although it seems like something you
> should be able to do.
> 
> def someFunction(option=Constants.DEFAULT_VALUE):

That's not a question.

Is there something that isn't behaving as you expect?  If so, please
explain what you expect, and what you're actually experiencing.

-- 
 \        "I took a course in speed waiting. Now I can wait an hour in |
  `\                              only ten minutes."  -- Steven Wright |
_o__)                                                                  |
Ben Finney <http://bignose.squidly.org/>


From grante at visi.com  Wed Apr 28 21:04:05 2004
From: grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards)
Date: 29 Apr 2004 01:04:05 GMT
Subject: Don't understand wxPython ids
References: <408ed938$0$17263$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
	<BOEjc.12559$eZ5.4366@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>
	<408f3061$0$17258$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
	<zCJjc.12791$eZ5.2682@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>
	<408fb665$0$17264$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
	<yoTjc.13255$eZ5.1700@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>
	<mfWjc.16567$e4.16098@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <40905485$0$17251$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>

On 2004-04-28, Greg Krohn <greg at invalid.invalid> wrote:

> Here we go. Use the attached module like this:
>
> #yourmodule.py
> import wx
> from event_kwargs import *
>
> ... your code ...
>
> self.ok_button = wx.Button(self, -1, "Ok", EVT_BUTTON=self.OnOk)
>
> ...more code...

I _like_ it.  Very clever!

> The only testing I've done is in the "if __name__ == '__main__'" part of 
> the module. I *haven't* tested all the widgets and events, but they 
> should theoretically work.

I'll certainly give it a try. Thanks!

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow!  I'm in LOVE with
                                  at               DON KNOTTS!!
                               visi.com            


From m.boeren at guidance.nl  Fri Apr  2 05:39:40 2004
From: m.boeren at guidance.nl (Marc Boeren)
Date: Fri, 2 Apr 2004 12:39:40 +0200
Subject: Simple text markup (-> HTML)
Message-ID: <0C77C7530EA52A4EBD1C47C80D1D291E07F849@sbs.GuidanceBV.local>


> :::Title::: A simple text markup utility :::/Title:::

or:

A simple text markup utility
============================

Compare this:
http://docutils.sourceforge.net/docs/rst/quickstart.txt

with this:
http://docutils.sourceforge.net/docs/rst/quickstart.html

and start thinking about reStructuredText...

Cheerio, Marc.



From a at a.invalid  Fri Apr 23 01:37:40 2004
From: a at a.invalid (Timo Virkkala)
Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2004 05:37:40 GMT
Subject: Python-list, Exotic sex is urgently necessary for you!
In-Reply-To: <mailman.935.1082683672.20120.python-list@python.org>
References: <E5E3A37F16I0JC42@python.org>
	<mailman.935.1082683672.20120.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <EY1ic.31$Ah4.7@read3.inet.fi>

[disgusting content snipped]

I've heard of sex with lots of kinds of animals, but Pythons? Wouldn't 
that be a) difficult b) VERY dangerous?

*grin*

--
WT


From justin at justinclarke.com  Mon Apr 12 11:40:22 2004
From: justin at justinclarke.com (Justin Clarke)
Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2004 11:40:22 -0400
Subject: Internet Explorer extensions in Python
Message-ID: <BCA030A6.342%justin@justinclarke.com>

Has anyone got any example Internet Explorer browser help objects or
extensions?  I have several examples in C++ and C#, but I would like to find
out how to do this in Python if possible.

Also, I know I need to implement a COM server with IObjectWithSite (GetSite
and SetSite).  I'm planning on using the universal interface as per the
excel and outlook plugins, but does anyone have any idea where I can find
this object with makepy?  I'm wondering what the data it passes will look
like in Python.

Thanks

Justin  




From donn at drizzle.com  Wed Apr  7 01:37:41 2004
From: donn at drizzle.com (Donn Cave)
Date: Wed, 07 Apr 2004 05:37:41 -0000
Subject: A beginner's question on thread
References: <mailman.382.1081232119.20120.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1081316259.664569@yasure>

Quoth Timothy Wu <huggiepython at graffiti.idv.tw>:
| I'm writing a small utility that listens for socket connections, and 
| also repond to user inputs via a text menu selection.
|
| In order to respond to both the user and the incoming connections I 
| figure I need to use thread.
|
| I think I would use the main thread to handle the menu and spawn a 
| thread which listens on a socket.
|
| Now my question is, how do I terminate the server thread if user wants 
| to exit the application? If the server just sit there and listen the 
| thread would never terminate by itself. What kind of inter-thread 
| communications are available and where would I find info/tutorial on that?

Well, that's the deal.  Use threads to solve a problem, and now
you have two problems.  

I'd probably do it the way Aurelio Martin proposed, with I/O to
the socket thread.  It's much neater than whacking the thread,
which is the alternative.

I wouldn't necessarily use threads in the first place, though.
I think it really depends on the user interface - usually that
has to be the dispatch core of the application, and if it's
built for threads, then there you go.  Typically there will be
some provision for dispatch on an I/O channel like a socket.
If you're writing your own user interface, probably just reading
and writing to the tty, and the socket thread is going to be
the one and lonely extra thread - then don't do it, I'd say.
Use select.select, or a package like asyncore or twisted or
whatever (not very familiar with that territory, I just use select.)

	Donn Cave, donn at drizzle.com


From bokr at oz.net  Sat Apr 24 18:10:51 2004
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 24 Apr 2004 22:10:51 GMT
Subject: Why we will use obj$func() often
References: <8AWhc.23114$dZ1.11070@fed1read04> <40883BFE.B381518A@alcyone.com>
	<27_hc.23801$dZ1.2716@fed1read04> <40887145.789A2FE8@alcyone.com>
	<7cki80hj976bia36lhf9er97v073o1pqvm@4ax.com>
	<w8dic.28710$dZ1.11206@fed1read04> <ulXiAls/KH1K089yn@the-wire.com>
	<lkfic.29767$dZ1.17301@fed1read04>
	<donn-66132E.15345723042004@nntp3.u.washington.edu>
	<PLhic.30493$dZ1.22063@fed1read04> <1082783076.585831@yasure>
	<Tunic.32387$dZ1.12932@fed1read04>
	<bipk80pio4qjk9rl0ucfmk4g4h6s3bkkuu@4ax.com>
	<108l6fvhl7fq29c@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <c6eolb$ira$0@216.39.172.122>

On Sat, 24 Apr 2004 09:46:54 -0700, "Michael Geary" <Mike at DeleteThis.Geary.com> wrote:

>David MacQuigg wrote:
>> How about instead of decorating variables with special
>> symbols or capitalization, we have a rule that says any
>> variables with unusual scope must be declared in a
>> statement at the top of the function where they are used.
>> So for example
>>
>> def func( x, y ):
>>    global   a, b, c    ### module level
>>    external d, e, f    ### one level up
>>    ...
>>
>> This would avoid the need for new and unique symbols,
>> would unclutter the code in the body of the function, would
>> provide a single place where you could see the scope of any
>> unusual variable, and would answer the question "What
>> external dependencies does this function have?"  Does it
>> satisfy the need you are seeing for & variables?
>
>Hey, that is a great idea, David. I definitely like it better than the &
>notation. It would work in Python as well as Prothon, and give me clean and
>readable closures like I have in JavaScript.
>
>I would want it to mean:
>
>    external d, e, f   # # # search up the scope chain

external has been suggested before ;-)
http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=bmdelc%24rsf%240%40216.39.172.122&rnum=25
>
>because I often want to use variables from scopes more than one level up.
>And maybe another word would be better than 'external' (although I don't
>have one in mind). But the idea is terrific.
>
>> Python added "read access" to external variables, so they
>> must have considered "write access" as well.  I don't know
>> the history, but I would guess the reason they didn't allow
>> this is the same as the reason they don't allow GOTO.  Yes
>> it is powerful, but it might encourage bad programming.
>
>We're both speculating, of course, but my guess is simply that automatic
>creation of variables by assignment conflicts with writing to variables from
>outer scopes. The global statement solves this for global variables, but no
>one thought it important enough to do something for nested scopes as well.
>Just my guess.
>
I think if we break down the uses of names, separating the determination of what
namespace they belong to from lookup and binding operations, we can identify some
simple possibilities. I.e., for
    a = b
the current rules (which can't change w/o code breakage) are first of all different
for the left and right side of the '=':

On the left, it always means the local namespace, unless declared global. And it
always means bind, whether a current binding exists or not.

On the right, unless declared global, it means search the chain of scopes[1]
and find the existing binding (or raise an exception if none).

The problem is binding and rebinding in external scopes. IMO limiting that just
to _re_binding would not be a serious limitation, and then we would only
need a simple spelling for find-in-the-chain-of-scopes-and-rebind. I would suggest
   a := b
to mean that. I.e., find b as usual, then find a as if it were on the right
(raising an exception if not found), and rebind it in the namespace where it was found.

Then Mark's example would be written simply as

   def getFunc():
       counter = 0
       def count():
               counter := counter + 1  # or perhaps counter +:= 1
               print counter
       return count

[1] BTW, "external" scopes could be defined in more general ways than only lexical scoping.
E.g., IIRC postscript lets you push (and pop) dictionaries on a stack, and bare names are
searched for through that. It might be interesting to be able to push a dictionary to work
like a new local namespace without the control stack being changed. To get really general,
you could dynamically define an explicit sequence of name spaces in some kind of ns path
analogous to sys.path. ... just BF'ing ;-)

Hm ... more: what about applying find-and-rebind to an mro path? Thus
    self.classvar_or_instvar := 123
could rebind a class variable unless shadowed by an instance variable.
This would be a concise way of getting to a class variable without using
the global class name, and an easy way to share a variable amongst instances.

Regards,
Bengt Richter


From erlendga at tva.ifi.uio.no  Thu Apr  1 14:12:32 2004
From: erlendga at tva.ifi.uio.no (Erlend Andreas Garberg)
Date: Thu, 1 Apr 2004 19:12:32 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Travelling salesman variation in python
References: <slrnc6on9h.spl.erlendga@tva.ifi.uio.no>
	<c4ho3l$4he$1@news.service.uci.edu>
	<slrnc6op8l.spl.erlendga@tva.ifi.uio.no>
	<7xhdw3zfb2.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <slrnc6oqcv.spl.erlendga@tva.ifi.uio.no>

In article <7xhdw3zfb2.fsf at ruckus.brouhaha.com>, Paul Rubin wrote:
> Erlend Andreas Garberg <erlendga at tva.ifi.uio.no> writes:
>> An approximate solution would be good enough, do you have any 
>> suggestions about how do do that?
> 
> Is it just an arbitrary graph?  Most TSP approximation algorithms
> depend e.g. on the triangle inequality, i.e. d(A,C) <= d(A,B) + d(B,C).
> 
> Papadimitriou and Stieglitz, "Combinatorial Optimization" was a
> standard textbook on this stuff, though is pretty old by now.


The graph is arbitrary, yes..

-- 

mvh
Erlend Garberg
erlendga at ifi.uio.no



From manpreet_nehra at hotmail.com  Wed Apr  7 06:14:53 2004
From: manpreet_nehra at hotmail.com (Manpreet)
Date: 7 Apr 2004 03:14:53 -0700
Subject: Conflux
Message-ID: <a4df2450.0404070214.38decb01@posting.google.com>

I am not a python programmer and could not decide where to post this
so this seemed to be the best place. I have trying to use conflux lite
groupware and I have been through the documentation a couple of
times....I am able to open the index page but as soon as I try to
login I get the following error I don't know what to do with this

Mod_python error: "PythonHandler _Publisher"

Traceback (most recent call last):

  File "/usr/lib/python2.3/site-packages/mod_python/apache.py", line
338, in HandlerDispatch
    result = object(req)

  File "/var/www/html/conflux/lib/_Publisher.py", line 217, in handler
    module = apache.import_module(module_name, req.get_config(),
[path])

  File "/usr/lib/python2.3/site-packages/mod_python/apache.py", line
493, in import_module
    f, p, d = imp.find_module(parts[i], path)

ImportError: No module named index


From peter9547 at btinternet.com  Sun Apr  4 16:07:25 2004
From: peter9547 at btinternet.com (Peter MacKenzie)
Date: Sun, 4 Apr 2004 20:07:25 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: emergent/swarm/evolutionary systems etc
References: <c4aeq8$92a$1@hercules.btinternet.com>
	<106um6hcr363u14@corp.supernews.com>
	<c4pbri$afg$1@hercules.btinternet.com>
	<dqednXF6-IRI3e3dRVn-ug@powergate.ca>
	<1070gv5586u8mc2@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <c4pptt$6e3$1@hercules.btinternet.com>

Looking at it, I don't think it's for me.  I'll keep it in mind for future
tasks, but this dissertation would be better served by text coding and a
raster display.  The flow chart code and vector graphics output of LabVIEW
might be useful if I was doing sociological work, as that uses a lot of flow
chart stuff to model the inter-linkages between people, but I'm not really a
people person.  Another minute, another thing I've learned.  It's not quite
as exciting as following the 'thinking' tutorial though.

>>> fruit = "bannana"
>>> bakedfood = " nut bread"
>>> fruit + bakedfood
'bannana nut bread'

>>>message = "What's up, doc?"

>>> fruit *len(fruit)
'bannanabannanabannanabannanabannanabannanabannana'
>>> fruit *len(message)
'bannanabannanabannanabannanabannanabannanabannanabannanabannanabannanabanna
nabannanabannanabannanabannana'

It took me a bit to figure out this one:

>>>fruit * pow(len(message),1)
'bannanabannanabannanabannanabannanabannanabannanabannanabannanabannanabanna
nabannanabannanabannanabannana'

(I won't take it to >>>fruit * pow(len(message),2))  There's such a thing a
too much fibre. :-)

Cameron Laird <claird at lairds.com> wrote in message
news:1070gv5586u8mc2 at corp.supernews.com...
> In article <dqednXF6-IRI3e3dRVn-ug at powergate.ca>,
> Peter Hansen  <peter at engcorp.com> wrote:
> .
> .
> .
> >> LISP brought it to mind.  Although LISP doesn't look that much better
than
> >> Python code, are there any programs out there that let you program, um,
> >> programs, using various shapes, colours etc?  Just thinking about it
brings
> >> up all manner of difficulties that would be encountered if you tried to
> >> create such a thing, but it would be nice if there was some immediately
> >> obvious graphical connection between pieces of code [...]
> >
> >Using the "G" graphical language of LabVIEW, all code ends up
> >_literally_ looking like spaghetti...  would that help?  ;-)
> >
> >-Peter
>
> LabVIEW's the first example that came to my mind, although
> perhaps Prograph or JavaBeans (!) could be argued as more
> commercially successful.
>
> I've worked on VPLs a couple of cycles in my career already,
> in process-control contexts.  My enthusiasm is tepid--but
> then I've exceedingly text-oriented.
> --
>
> Cameron Laird <claird at phaseit.net>
> Business:  http://www.Phaseit.net




From ahaas at airmail.net  Wed Apr 28 14:52:45 2004
From: ahaas at airmail.net (Art Haas)
Date: Wed, 28 Apr 2004 13:52:45 -0500
Subject: ANNOUCE: Thirteenth release of PythonCAD now available
Message-ID: <20040428185245.GH20535@artsapartment.org>

I'd like to announce the thirteenth development release of PythonCAD,
a CAD package for open-source software users. As the name implies,
PythonCAD is written entirely in Python. The goal of this project is
to create a fully scriptable drafting program that will match and eventually
exceed features found in commercial CAD software. PythonCAD is released
under the GNU Public License (GPL).

PythonCAD requires Python 2.2 or Python 2.3. The interface is GTK 2.0
based, and uses the PyGTK module for interfacing to GTK. The design of
PythonCAD is built around the idea of separating the interface
from the back end as much as possible. By doing this, it is hoped
that both GNOME and KDE interfaces can be added to PythonCAD through
usage of the appropriate Python module. Addition of other interfaces
will depend on the availability of a Python module for that particular
interface and developer interest and action.

The thirteenth release of PythonCAD is the first release to offer
undo/redo abilities. The undo/redo work is in its initial stage,
and upcoming releases will enhance the robustness of the code. The
long term goal with undo/redo work is to make both as unlimited
as possible, but for the first release the functionality works
best if only the last action is undone or redone. Undoing and redoing
multiple operations works in certain cases, but not not in others.
Development efforts for the next release will concentrate on enhancing
the undo/redo abilities of the program.

This release also has the ability to save the current background
and foreground colors, and offers the user the ability to specify
the color for boxes drawn around points. As for code cleanups, a
number of deprecated methods have been removed, and several existing
methods are now deprecated. An assortment of bug fixes and code
improvements have been added as well.

The mailing list for the development and use of PythonCAD is available.
Visit the following page for information about subscribing and viewing
the mailing list archive:

http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pythoncad

Visit the PythonCAD web site for more information about what PythonCAD
does and aims to be:

http://www.pythoncad.org/

Come and join me in developing PythonCAD into a world class drafting
program, and Happy New Year to everyone!

Art Haas
-- 
Man once surrendering his reason, has no remaining guard against absurdities
the most monstrous, and like a ship without rudder, is the sport of every wind.

-Thomas Jefferson to James Smith, 1822



From peter at engcorp.com  Fri Apr  2 10:13:07 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Fri, 02 Apr 2004 10:13:07 -0500
Subject: Making the Zen of Python more useful
In-Reply-To: <c4jvc3$b0b$1@news-int.gatech.edu>
References: <106qp0uivlefo40@corp.supernews.com>
	<BPWdnVtfl7ma5PDdRVn-sw@powergate.ca>
	<c4jvc3$b0b$1@news-int.gatech.edu>
Message-ID: <-5ydnTEmxfuZHvDdRVn-iQ@powergate.ca>

Andrew Henshaw wrote:

> In article <BPWdnVtfl7ma5PDdRVn-sw at powergate.ca>, peter at engcorp.com says...
>>I'm not sure why you had to do quite all that.  The following is 
>>sufficient, and you don't need a custom ROT-13 thingie:
>>
>>>>>import StringIO, sys
>>>>>s = StringIO.StringIO()
>>>>>sys.stdout = s
>>>>>import this
>>>>>sys.stdout = sys.__stdout__
>>>>>s.getvalue()
>>
>>"The Zen of Python, by Tim Peters\n\nBeautiful is ...
> 
> Much better.  Still pretty awkward for the purpose I described.  Perhaps, the 
> best solution, overall.

Okay then, how about this one?  :-)

 >>> import this
The Zen of Python, by Tim Peters\n\nBeautiful is ...
 >>> this.s.decode('rot-13')
u"The Zen of Python, by Tim Peters\n\nBeautiful is ...

-Peter


From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Mon Apr 19 20:55:03 2004
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 19 Apr 2004 20:55:03 -0400
Subject: unexpected performance from threads and network client
	benchmarking
References: <pan.2004.04.12.23.24.25.608986@project2501.cor>
Message-ID: <c61sd7$8dd$1@panix1.panix.com>

In article <pan.2004.04.12.23.24.25.608986 at project2501.cor>,
Project2501  <project2501 at project2501.cor> wrote:
>
>the wisdom says that you will not see any performance increase from the
>use of threads on the client side trying to it a server (high request rate).
>
>this is explained in terms of the GIL..

Huh?  Where did you see this "wisdom"?  This is precisely one of the
prime use cases for threading.  See
http://pythoncraft.com/OSCON2001/index.html
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

"I used to have a .sig but I found it impossible to please everyone..."  --SFJ


From mark at prothon.org  Thu Apr  1 01:23:41 2004
From: mark at prothon.org (Mark Hahn)
Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 22:23:41 -0800
Subject: Prothon, metaclasses, Zope [Was: A 'Python like' language]
References: <95aa1afa.0403272243.78d60724@posting.google.com>
	<slrnc6crti.dit.joe@gate.notcharles.ca>
	<95aa1afa.0403280258.41dc5cd9@posting.google.com>
	<slrnc6ddi6.e5c.joe@gate.notcharles.ca>
	<c4aia1$2d44ll$1@ID-169208.news.uni-berlin.de>
	<8y8ac.68250$cx5.51296@fed1read04>
	<c4dkg2$2gsuda$1@ID-169208.news.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <mzOac.90680$cx5.25736@fed1read04>


"Greg Ewing (using news.cis.dfn.de)" <ieyf4fu02 at sneakemail.com> wrote in
message news:c4dkg2$2gsuda$1 at ID-169208.news.uni-berlin.de...
> Mark Hahn wrote:
> > > But presumably he wants the check done only once, when a subclass is
> > > defined, *not* every time said subclass is instantiated.
> >
> > You can have a different __init__ for an object and it's prototpe.So the
> > Prothon equivalent of a subclass can easily have different __init__
> > behaviour than it's child (what you call instance).
>
> Can you post some code illustrating how you would do this
> in Prothon? I still can't see how, at the point where you
> do
>
>    X = Base()
>
> anything can tell whether you're intending to use X as
> an instance of Base or whether you're going to go on to
> say
>
>    with X:
>      def ...
>
> and use X as a prototype which inherits behaviour from
> Base. In both cases, Base.__init__ is going to get invoked
> before you have a chance to define any other __init__ that
> might override it.

You don't have to use the obj = proto() technique to create an object.  The
following code is identical to saying subproto = topproto() except no
__init__() will be called:

   subproto = Object()
   subproto.set_proto(topproto)  # switch prototype on the fly

Does this give you the missing piece you need or is there something else
missing in Prothon?  If you explain the overall goal better I'll write the
complete code for you.

>
> -- 
> Greg Ewing, Computer Science Dept,
> University of Canterbury,
> Christchurch, New Zealand
> http://www.cosc.canterbury.ac.nz/~greg
>




From grzegorz at ee.ualberta.ca  Sat Apr 17 12:38:43 2004
From: grzegorz at ee.ualberta.ca (Grzegorz Dostatni)
Date: Sat, 17 Apr 2004 12:38:43 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Static Modules...
In-Reply-To: <mailman.730.1082221828.20120.python-list@python.org>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0404171006210.27811-100000@e5-05.ee.ualberta.ca>
	<mailman.730.1082221828.20120.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0404171235310.29550-200000@e5-05.ee.ualberta.ca>


Please don't use that snippet. It has some problems, the chief of which is
that it does not differentiate between different types of exceptions. This
one behaves in a lot more sane way.

There are still a few problems, like:
1. If an exception occurs inside the module (either of the exec
statements) : the original exception is executed. This *could* be a
feature - as in: "I tried, now you fix your own bugs!".

2. Multiple module NameError exceptions inside the same code object will
not work.

Greg

Advice is what we ask for when we already know the answer but wish we
didn't.
          -- Erica Jong (How to Save Your Own Life, 1977)


On Sat, 17 Apr 2004, Jeff Epler wrote:

> I tossed this in my PYTHONSTARTUP file, to see how I like it.
> No complaints so far, and it might make the interactive prompt even
> easier to use.
>
> Jeff
>
>
-------------- next part --------------
#
# Autoload - v. 0.2 
# Dynamically load modules as they are referenced.
# 
# by Grzegorz Dostatni on April 17, 2003
#

import sys

def autoload_exc(type, value, traceback):
	if type == NameError:
		modulename = value.args[0].split()[1][1:-1]
		f_locals = traceback.tb_frame.f_locals
		f_globals = traceback.tb_frame.f_globals

		# simple way of handling errors for now:
		# If this fails in any way - display the original exception
		
		try:
			exec "import " + modulename in f_locals, f_globals
			exec traceback.tb_frame.f_code in f_locals, f_globals
		except:
			sys.__excepthook__(type, value, traceback)
	else: 
		sys.__excepthook__(type, value, traceback)

sys.excepthook = autoload_exc



From ed-no at spam-eepatents.com  Thu Apr 15 03:38:31 2004
From: ed-no at spam-eepatents.com (Ed Suominen)
Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2004 00:38:31 -0700
Subject: Goodbye TCL
Message-ID: <0LudnSads6NmpuPdRVn-vw@centurytel.net>

I have debated about the wisdom of posting this message, knowing that a lot
of people whom I respect may not like what I have to say. On the other
hand, I wish that the person who told me "TCL is dead, try Python" two
weeks ago had somehow been able to get that message through to me much
earlier. As a longtime member of comp.lang.tcl who reluctantly considered
that advice but wound up finding its results incredibly illuminating and
productive, it seems only fair to pass it on.

I am dictating this posting into a Linux application window using speech
recognition software that is running under Windows in a VMware virtual
machine. Every time I dictate a bit of text into a Tk text widget on the
Windows side, that text is transmitted via a (virtual) TCP connection to a
daemon on the Linux side that generates fake keystrokes via X events. I
wrote the software that accomplishes this [1] over the course of the last
week or so, one week after beginning my study of object-oriented and
test-driven programming in general, more specifically of Python, and even
more specifically of the Twisted network application framework for Python
[2]. There was a lot of reading and head-scratching involved, but it was a
fascinating experience.

I have had extensive experience doing network application development with
TCL, most visibly with Privaria [3]. That experience involved a great deal
of low-level programming using the socket built-in function and its
companions. In both cases, I searched far and wide for suitable TCL
packages to do what I wanted but wound up just writing the stuff at a low
level because the packages seemed inactive, demonstrated buggy behavior, or
just didn't seem to do what I wanted. I spent many interesting but
frustrating hours sniffing packets and working out the details of TCP-level
communications -- buffer flushing, newline inconsistencies, blocking vs.
non-blocking reads, etc.

With this latest project, I was determined to see if Python was as widely
supported and powerful as its advocates claimed. I was not disappointed.
After quite a few hours of intense study (my first real exposure to
object-oriented programming, see above) I found the language itself
incredibly powerful, without the need for any external packages (which do
you choose, itcl, snit, or what?) to tack OOP capability onto a language
that is as procedural as the name of its function construct ("proc")
implies.

Namespaces in Python just happen; they don't need definition. If you
"import" a "module," all of its "attributes," which are classes, methods
(few), and variables (fewer) live in that module's name space unless you
indicate otherwise (which you can easily do). The number of globals
floating around is truly minimal, because defining classes that instantiate
objects making things happen in methods of objects is the default in the
way the language and its documentation (current and extensive) encourage
you to program.

But most significantly, I found, is that trying to reuse code that others
have written is no longer a frustrating exercise in skipping past "Error
404: Page Not Found" messages, pages that are found but haven't been
updated in three years and feature code that only links to tclsh8.1, and
packages that are TCL-only or manage to link but seem dangerously inactive,
buggy, and unused. For my first Python application (written just before the
one I'm using to dictate this) I needed to generate highly structured,
highly specialized HTML from various bits of data in text files here and
there. I found the HTML generation package in Python's standard library
(yes, there is one, is extensive, and it comes with the interpreter) to be
intuitive and powerful, in contrast to the tcllib tool that I wound up
having to extend with my own hacks on too many occasions. (There's a more
powerful TCL tool, but it doesn't seem to be active or widely used...)

For this dictation application, I used the twisted application framework,
which turns Python into an incredibly powerful networking and multitasking
machine. It was very difficult to learn because its documentation does not
keep up with its depth, and I wound up having to print and pore over a lot
of source files to understand how it works. But once I overcame that
learning curve I found that I could do amazing things with a few lines of
highly modular code. I never even got close to the TCP packets. I just
invoked a method of the "reactor" object that runs the whole show to listen
for TCP connections on one side and make connections on the other and
implemented various methods to send the data I needed. When new text
materializes in the text widget, a periodically-polled method senses it and
sends it to the other side. The other side tells its keystroke-typing
object about the new text and lets that object take care of calling its own
objects. All those objects' classes and method were unit tested
concurrently with their development, based on a testing framework someone
else wrote and is supporting. The whole things takes up about 800 lines of
code, including extensive "docstrings" (essentially
documentation-generating comments).

I'm not writing all of this to rub it in, to thumb my noses at those left
behind. But I think at some point people (like me, two weeks ago) should
question why their particular programming language, operating system kernel
(see, e.g., the Hurd), editor, etc. does not seem to be receiving as much
attention as they would like. Sure, such people can tout the benefits of
their particular choice and shake their heads in wonder at why others
haven't discovered it or have left it behind, but they might well take an
honest look at the question "why"? Perhaps there is a reason why Python has
several dozen books with recent publication dates and nothing new seems to
have been written about TCL for years. Perhaps there is a reason why the
comp.lang.python newsgroup has several times the volume of this one and the
typical Linux distribution has many times more Python-based applications
than TCL-based ones. The reason may be that many people are finding one
choice superior to the other.

Finally, let me add that some of my observations may be inaccurate. Any such
inaccuracies are unintentional and open to correction here. Hopefully this
lengthy message will be received in the constructive spirit in which it was
written.

Ed Suominen

[1] Very much in pre-release state, but available at
http://www.ossri.org/projects.php
[2] http://www.twistedmatrix.com/
[3] http://www.privaria.org


From noemail at noemail4u.com  Thu Apr 22 13:14:51 2004
From: noemail at noemail4u.com (Daniel 'Dang' Griffith)
Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2004 17:14:51 GMT
Subject: This is very simple question
References: <b0457a31.0404210754.2a34b6be@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.840.1082563771.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<108dbd1aftmkc48@corp.supernews.com>
	<4087a0f6$0$25552$afc38c87@news.easynet.fr>
	<108fl7h8oocmm5c@corp.supernews.com>
	<4087dc83$0$24703$afc38c87@news.easynet.fr>
Message-ID: <921e8fdcd6a79c676abcf213410c9d85@news.teranews.com>

On Thu, 22 Apr 2004 16:53:55 +0200, "Nicolas Lehuen"
<nicolas.lehuen at thecrmcompany.com> wrote:

>> >    return result.reverse() # if you really want it reversed
>>
>> I agree that divmod() improves the algorithm, and thank
>> you for pointing that out.
>> 
>> I'm reasonably certain that the return value of reverse()
>> is not what you believe it to be.
>> -- 
>> 
>> Cameron Laird <claird at phaseit.net>
>> Business:  http://www.Phaseit.net
>
>Ooops indeed, reverse() always returns None, because the reverse is made in place. I did test the program without the reverse, so I missed this mistake. Thanks !
>
>BTW, I've been bitten by this behaviour a lot since I've switched to Python a year ago (coming from C++ and Java)... I would feel much better if reverse(), sort() and so on returned the list itself ; but then maybe other people would think the reversing/sorting etc. would not be done in place...
>
>Regards,
>Nicolas
You probably already do this, but in case someone else wants an easy
workaround:

def reversed(lst):
    lst2 = lst[:]
    lst2.reverse()
    return lst2

def sorted(lst):
    lst2 = lst[:]
    lst2.sort()
    return lst2

Then you can do things like:
    mylst = reversed(mylst)

Which is not as pretty as 
    mylst = mylist.reversed()

But it is less punctuation!  ;-)

There's been talk about adding this type of method to the builtin list
object.
    --dang


From greg at cosc.canterbury.ac.nz  Fri Apr 16 00:42:25 2004
From: greg at cosc.canterbury.ac.nz (Greg Ewing)
Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2004 16:42:25 +1200
Subject: Mac: How to receive AppleEvents with creator IDs
In-Reply-To: <c56plh$hbs$1@newshispeed.ch>
References: <c56plh$hbs$1@newshispeed.ch>
Message-ID: <c5no7h$3nujm$1@ID-169208.news.uni-berlin.de>

Jean-Pierre Bergamin wrote:
> I'm wondering if it's possible to receive AppleEvents with python that are
> addressed only by the creator ID (= application signature) which is a usual
> OSType four character code.

You need to build an applet from your Python code
(a utility for doing this is provided with MacPython).
Then give the applet a unique creator code, and other
applications will be able to address AppleEvents to
it.

-- 
Greg Ewing, Computer Science Dept,
University of Canterbury,	
Christchurch, New Zealand
http://www.cosc.canterbury.ac.nz/~greg



From nicksjacobson at yahoo.com  Thu Apr 29 15:20:36 2004
From: nicksjacobson at yahoo.com (Nick Jacobson)
Date: 29 Apr 2004 12:20:36 -0700
Subject: static keyword
References: <f8097096.0404290607.78aa9ce3@posting.google.com>
	<LeydnWxdT6atjgzdRVn-sA@powergate.ca>
	<c6r59t$9mm$1@arcturus.ciril.fr>
Message-ID: <f8097096.0404291120.6b1377e2@posting.google.com>

>  >>> i = [10 ,11]
>  >>> firstcall = True
>  >>>
>  >>> def foo():
> ...     global i
> ...     global firstcall
> ...     if firstcall:
> ...             print "First pass"
> ...             firstcall = False
> ...     i[0] += 1
> ...     print i[0]
> ...
>  >>> foo()
> First pass
> 11
>  >>> foo()
> 12

Hmm.  I would like it, but it pollutes the global namespace.  Two
functions might want to use firstcall, for example (if they want to
just do something on the first pass).  That's an error at most, and
renaming issues at the least.

Thanks for the idea, though..


From avera at coes.org.pe  Mon Apr  5 11:35:22 2004
From: avera at coes.org.pe (Alberto Vera)
Date: Mon, 5 Apr 2004 10:35:22 -0500
Subject: accented chars make an error
Message-ID: <001a01c41b23$9bf1d8e0$1603a8c0@pc22>

Hello

I'm using win32com.client to get information from a database.

The problem occurs with accented chars like ?,?,?,?,?.
when a program get a string containing these accented chars from the database, Python shows an error like : UnicodeEncodeError: 'ascii' codec can't encode character u'\xc1' in position 22: ordinal not in range(128)


Could you tell me How I can avoid this error?

Thanks
-------------- next part --------------
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From jwsacksteder at ramprecision.com  Mon Apr 19 11:10:31 2004
From: jwsacksteder at ramprecision.com (jwsacksteder at ramprecision.com)
Date: Mon, 19 Apr 2004 11:10:31 -0400
Subject: outline-style sorting algorithm
Message-ID: <71650A6F73F1D411BE8000805F65E3CB3B3A51@SRV-03>

Am I understanding correctly that python has an implict notion that position
in a list denotes order of magnitude? Batteries included- Big Win!


-----Original Message-----
From: Max M [mailto:maxm at mxm.dk]
Sent: Monday, April 19, 2004 10:58 AM
To: Jeff Sacksteder
Cc: python-list at python.org
Subject: Re: outline-style sorting algorithm


jwsacksteder at ramprecision.com wrote:
 > I have a need to sort a list of elements that represent sections of a
 > document in dot-separated notation. The built in sort does the wrong 
thing.

Not really. You are giving it a list of strings, and it sort those 
alphabetically. That seems like the right thing to me ;-)

 > This seems a rather complex problem and I was hoping someone smarter 
than me
 > had already worked out the best way to approach this. For example, 
consider
 > the following list-

 >>>>foo
 >
 > ['1.0', '1.0.1', '1.1.1', '1.2', '1.9', '1.10', '1.11', '1.20', '1.20.1',
 > '1.30']

You need to convert them to another datatype first. Your best bet here 
would be a list or a tuple, as they can map directly to your data.

'1.0.1'.split('.') == [1,0,1]

But list are a bit easier here.

foo_as_tuples = [f.split('.') for f in foo]
foo_as_tuples.sort()

Then you must convert it back to strings again.

foo = ['.'.join(f) for f in foo_as_tuples]

There is a standard way of sorting quickly in python, called 
decorate-sort-undecorate. It is allmost the same example as before:


decorated = [(itm.split('.'),itm) for itm in foo]
decorated.sort()
foo = [d[-1] for d in decorated]

regards Max M



From osv at javad.ru  Wed Apr 21 08:06:12 2004
From: osv at javad.ru (Sergei Organov)
Date: 21 Apr 2004 16:06:12 +0400
Subject: CamelCase versus wide_names (Prothon)
References: <UHxfc.9323$dZ1.3740@fed1read04>
	<6ee58e07.0404192141.2229efd6@posting.google.com>
	<c62e05$6oraj$1@ID-99293.news.uni-berlin.de>
	<i93hc.13733$dZ1.8818@fed1read04>
	<mailman.789.1082458674.20120.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1082549174.163233@ns.topconrd.ru>

Gerrit <gerrit at nl.linux.org> writes:

> Mark Hahn wrote:
> > "William Park" <opengeometry at yahoo.ca> wrote ...
> > 
> > Someone else already mentioned this
> > > > problem:
> > > >
> > > >    smtp_message <-> SMTPMessage <-> SmtpMessage
> > 
> > If you consider the capital letter as just a replacement for the underbar,
> > then the answer is definitely smtpMessage.  I don't see any problem.
> 
> SMTP is an acronym. Because it's an acronym, it's most often spelled in
> allcaps.

Yet nobody mentioned that we don't have lower-case digits ;)

usb201_driver <-> usb201Driver <-> usb2??Driver


-- 
Sergei.


From dippyd at yahoo.com.au  Wed Apr 14 03:34:58 2004
From: dippyd at yahoo.com.au (Steve)
Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2004 17:34:58 +1000
Subject: maximum length of a list & tuple
References: <c54lq3$2pe1sf$1@ID-202776.news.uni-berlin.de>
	<bvednZaKK7OybejdRVn-iQ@centurytel.net>
	<c55okv$2o3eql$1@ID-202776.news.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <407CE9A2.2040209@yahoo.com.au>

Lupe wrote:

> I just would like to know if there is any limit to a list or tuple.

Yes. Since the universe only contains something like 
10**85 particles of matter, the upper limit to a list 
is roughly 2**(10**85) bits.

Sorry, I couldn't resist :-D

You can store as many things in a list as you have 
memory for. I suppose there is probably some 
fundamental limit due to 32 bit addressing issues, but 
are you sure you are really storing so many items you 
are hitting that limit? I'd guess you aren't.

For example, the other day I was playing around with 
Python, and just for a lark I created a list with 
300,000,000 instances of None. It took about five 
minutes, but it worked :-)

Going back to your original problem:

 > Each time the function is called, it compares an
 > element of a list (which is a list too) to other
 > elements, which all amounts to millions of
 > comparisons.

Are you sure there isn't a more efficient algorithm for 
what you are trying to do?

 > The program is working for short lists but not for
 > longer ones.

What do you mean it is working? It doesn't finish? It 
is too slow? Or it gives the wrong answer?

If it is giving a wrong answer, there is a bug in your 
code. If it is running too slowly, chances are there is 
a better algorithm that will fix it.

-- 
Steven D'Aprano




From peter at engcorp.com  Sun Apr  4 22:46:41 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Sun, 04 Apr 2004 22:46:41 -0400
Subject: How to assign a default constant value in a function declaration
In-Reply-To: <mailman.341.1081121191.20120.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.341.1081121191.20120.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <DJWdnQZYSrEMVe3dRVn-tw@powergate.ca>

Vineet Jain wrote:

> The following does not work although it seems like something you should be
> able to do.
> 
> def someFunction(option=Constants.DEFAULT_VALUE):

Please post the actual error traceback you are getting, and a
better description of "does not work".  Your problem could be
just about anything at this point...

-Peter


From jbperez808 at wahoo.com  Tue Apr 27 00:45:21 2004
From: jbperez808 at wahoo.com (Jon Perez)
Date: 27 Apr 2004 04:45:21 GMT
Subject: CPU usage of Python interpreter doing empty while loop under XP
Message-ID: <c6kogu$cvgah$1@ID-180326.news.uni-berlin.de>

When you run an empty while loop under Python [with the 
interpreter at its default Normal Priority], it slows 
down the rest of the system.  Is this normal?  And should
it be something that needs to be corrected?


[Note: I'm using ActiveState Python 2.3.2 Build 232]


From no.mail at available.net  Sun Apr 25 14:33:24 2004
From: no.mail at available.net (Georgy)
Date: Sun, 25 Apr 2004 18:33:24 GMT
Subject: Andreas' practical language comparison
References: <c6glig$phm$07$4@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <UvTic.56286$yv.1871246@twister.southeast.rr.com>

Quick'n'dirty translation of Algol-68 solution:


# N queens task * translation from Algol-68 (C) 2004 Georgy
# Algol-68; http://www.kochandreas.com/home/language/cases/8QUEENS_A68G.HTM
# All: http://www.kochandreas.com/home/language/matrix.htm

def solve( n, all_solutions=False ): # solve n-queens problem

  class Done(Exception): pass

  n1 = n-1 # some optimization :-)

  column = [True]*n      # available columns
  diaga  = [True]*(n+n1) # available tr-bl diags (c+r)
  diagb  = [True]*(n+n1) # available tl-br diags (c-r) + n-1
  position = [0] * n

  def print_row( q ): # print a row
    stars = ['*']*n
    stars[q] = 'Q'
    for s in stars: print s,
    print

  def try_row(r):
    """try_row(r) -- the first r-1 queens have been placed in the top rows,
    #  column/diaga/diagb record which columns and diagonals are still available.
    """
    for c in range(n):
      if r >= n:
        print_row( position[c] )
        if c == n1:
          if all_solutions:
            print '-'*(n+n1)
            return
          else:
            raise Done
      elif column[c] and diaga[c+r] and diagb[c-r + n-1]:
        column[c] = diaga[c+r] = diagb[c-r + n1] = False
        position[r] = c
        try_row( r+1 )
        column[c] = diaga[c+r] = diagb[c-r + n1] = True

  try:
    try_row(0)
  except Done:
    pass

solve( 8 ) # find one solution; for all solutions: solve( 8, True )


"Andreas Koch" <nospam at kochandreas.com> wrote in message news:c6glig$phm$07$4 at news.t-online.com...
| Hi all,
|
| i started a little "practical language comparison" - practical
| in the sense that i compare how actual distributions and versions
| and their libraries (not abstract language specifications) solve small
| test cases like the 8 queens problem.
|
| Currently there are contributions for 17 different languages, and
| none for Phyton (and Lisp. And Forth. And many others ).
| If someone is interested in contributing a few implementations,
| please have a look at:
|
| http://www.kochandreas.com/home/language/lang.htm
|
| and mail me your code snippets (or critics) or post them here.
|
|                         thanks a lot,
| -- 
|                                    Andreas
| He screamed: THIS IS SIG!




From roy at panix.com  Fri Apr  9 09:42:01 2004
From: roy at panix.com (Roy Smith)
Date: Fri, 09 Apr 2004 09:42:01 -0400
Subject: List vs tuples
References: <c54cjb$5fs$1@planja.arnes.si> <107bf8q8fhsmg5e@news.supernews.com>
	<7in05lfpqt.fsf@enark.csis.hku.hk>
Message-ID: <roy-B64F4E.09420109042004@reader1.panix.com>

Isaac To <kkto at csis.hku.hk> wrote:
> And you can use a list here as well.  Indeed, if you want to emulate C
> struct, you probably will use list instead of tuples, since in C, structs
> are mutable.

It's a bit of a misnomer to say that tuples (or lists) emulate C 
structs.  You access the elements of a struct by name, but you access 
the elements of a tuple by index.  A much better emulation of a C struct 
is a degenerate class with no methods.  If I wanted to emulate:

struct myData {
   int x;
   int y;
} datum = {1, 42};

I'd do something like:

class myData:
   pass

datum = myData()
datum.x = 1
datum.y = 42

The reason people sometimes think of tuples as struct-like is because 
they are often used to return multiple values from functions.  To use 
the example often cited, you might do:

x, y = getCoordinates()

where getCoordinates() returns a tuple of two numbers.  It sort of looks 
like a struct because it's got x an y "members", but the x and y names 
are assigned in the unpacking operation, they're not inherent in the 
object returned.  A more "struct-like" way of doing it would be to have 
getCoordinates() return something like the myData object shown above.  
Then you'd have:

point = getCoordinates()

and you could make use of point.x and point.y in your code.

I'm not saying that the idea of returning a tuple and immediately 
unpacking it isn't handy.  It certainly is, and I use it often in the 
code that I write.  But, I think saying that it emulates a C struct 
gives people the wrong idea of what's going on.


From http  Sat Apr  3 21:23:11 2004
From: http (Paul Rubin)
Date: 03 Apr 2004 18:23:11 -0800
Subject: Python is faster than C
References: <406F0907.96F37EA1@tunes.org> <7xy8pcogaa.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<406F454B.C4CC8063@tunes.org> <7xekr4vdek.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<406F5E95.EBE6D3E8@tunes.org>
Message-ID: <7x65cgqy5s.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

Armin Rigo <arigo at tunes.org> writes:
> Ideally: If you do  x=range(100); x[50]='hi'  then the interpreter first
> builds this optimized range representation and assigns it to x; and when
> in the next statement you modify this list x it says 'oops! i cannot do
> that with this representation', so it reverts to an array-like
> representation (i.e. it creates all 100 elements) and then changes the
> 50th.  No gain here.  If on the other hand you only ever do 'easy'
> things with your list, like iterate over it or read elements, then it
> can all be done with the range representation, without falling back to
> the array representation.

Maybe there is something to this.  


From fredrik at pythonware.com  Mon Apr 19 11:10:44 2004
From: fredrik at pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Mon, 19 Apr 2004 17:10:44 +0200
Subject: Threats to the: Daily Python URL!
References: <2ae25c6b.0404182250.4c5bc870@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <c60q4u$eci$1@sea.gmane.org>

Paddy McCarthy wrote:

> Please don't stop the excellent work that you do.
> I don't know what threats and insults you suffered but I would like to
> ensure you that I for one read the column and value it.

the daily URL won't go away.  we'll continue to provide fresh links to
potentially interesting stuff for as long as we possibly can (if you want
old links, use google or gigablast).

and in the future, we'll just redirect abusive posts to /dev/null (and it's
up to us to decide what's abusive).  no need to upset our readers just
because we got upset...

thanks /F






From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Fri Apr  2 15:09:37 2004
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 2 Apr 2004 15:09:37 -0500
Subject: Python conference slogan
References: <mailman.189.1080759511.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<c4jj1i$f6g$1@swifty.westend.com> <406D57FF.4040601@mplusr.de>
	<c4jm1k$hs1$1@swifty.westend.com>
Message-ID: <c4kha1$698$1@panix3.panix.com>

In article <c4jm1k$hs1$1 at swifty.westend.com>,
Peter Maas  <peter.maas at mplusr.de> wrote:
>
>- Unbrace yourself with Python.
>
>- Python - think without braces

Someone (ESR? -- I know I've seen him wear it) made a t-shirt that says,
"Life's better without braces".
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

"usenet imitates usenet"  --Darkhawk


From alloydflanagan at comcast.net  Fri Apr 23 09:26:50 2004
From: alloydflanagan at comcast.net (A. Lloyd Flanagan)
Date: 23 Apr 2004 06:26:50 -0700
Subject: Why we will use obj$func() often
References: <d2Uhc.22272$dZ1.1600@fed1read04> <84Uhc.22278$dZ1.5087@fed1read04>
	<mailman.927.1082665370.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<8AWhc.23114$dZ1.11070@fed1read04> <40883BFE.B381518A@alcyone.com>
	<27_hc.23801$dZ1.2716@fed1read04> <40887145.789A2FE8@alcyone.com>
	<x60ic.23986$dZ1.13511@fed1read04>
	<slrnc8h667.ahh.bignose-hates-spam@iris.polar.local>
	<lS1ic.25535$dZ1.24380@fed1read04>
Message-ID: <e838aa6e.0404230526.387d3204@posting.google.com>

"Mark Hahn" <mark at prothon.org> wrote in message news:<lS1ic.25535$dZ1.24380 at fed1read04>...
> I guess I'll go back to the Prothon mailing lists with my tail between my
> legs....

Don't do that.  It appears that this list is currently hosting even
more really grumpy people than usual.  :P
Don't pay them any attention, maybe they'll go away.


From cygnus at cprogrammer.org  Sat Apr 10 19:25:00 2004
From: cygnus at cprogrammer.org (Jonathan Daugherty)
Date: Sat, 10 Apr 2004 19:25:00 -0400
Subject: Python is the best and most popular general purpose scripting
	language; the universal scripting language
In-Reply-To: <40788033.3030209@prescod.net>
References: <a5415304.0404101350.271088f2@posting.google.com>
	<roy-22B4DA.18282210042004@reader1.panix.com>
	<20040410225019.GA16891@vulcan.cprogrammer.org>
	<40788033.3030209@prescod.net>
Message-ID: <20040410232500.GB17123@vulcan.cprogrammer.org>

# So which is Lisp? Prolog? Smalltalk? ML?

I didn't claim that it necessarily holds for every language. :)

# A scripting language is a language that makes scripting (gluing together 
# components) easy.

You're defining it in terms of itself; what is scripting?  The use of
scripting languages, or the accomplishment of tasks quickly and
easily?  Some would argue the latter can be done with programming
languages.

# A programming language is a language that makes programming (including 
# the creation of components) easy.

By this metric many languages are both, since the definition is
subjective.

-- 
    _  ,^.  _    
  ,'/ -' '- \`.  
 / |   \ /   | \   Jonathan Daugherty
|  |   | |   |  |
|   \_,' `._/   |  http://www.cprogrammer.org
|               |
 \             / 
  `.         .'  
    `--._.--'



From max_powers280 at hotmail.com  Wed Apr 28 04:19:53 2004
From: max_powers280 at hotmail.com (Max Powers)
Date: 28 Apr 2004 01:19:53 -0700
Subject: Embedding OCaml within Python
Message-ID: <37aad18.0404280019.500e2841@posting.google.com>

I've spent an interesting day searching the web for help with calling
OCaml functions from a python program and have come to the newsgroup
for some advice (unfortunately I'm learning both languages at the same
time, so maybe I've missed something obvious!)

The situation is this; I've got a large legacy program that is written
in ocaml, within which there's a parser. I'd like to be able to call
that parser from my python program (actually it's really a GUI using
wxPython), rather than reimplement it (and then have to maintain two
parsers into the future).

I've come across Viper, which looks like a python compiler/interpreter
implemented in OCaml, so I imagine that I could get it to do some
magic tricks to call a ocaml library from python, but I think that's
doomed to failure because of the C extensions of wxPython.

I've stumbled across Pycaml, but don't quite understand how to use it
to call ocaml from python. Alternatively I think I can wrap the ocaml
library in a C wrapper and then call that from python.

Can anyone give advice/share experiences? Is combining OCaml with
python relatively straightforward with a bit more effort, or am I in
for a world of pain?

Thanks,
Max


From simoninusa2001 at yahoo.co.uk  Wed Apr 14 14:31:43 2004
From: simoninusa2001 at yahoo.co.uk (simo)
Date: 14 Apr 2004 11:31:43 -0700
Subject: Difficulty Finding Python Developers
References: <65cbc3dd.0404140641.3501fde8@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <30260531.0404141031.3415b975@posting.google.com>

pm_mon at yahoo.com (Paul Morrow) wrote:

> We've worked hard to convince our company to migrate our core
> applications to Python, and now we're looking for a Python developer
> in Atlanta to handle a short-term (approx. 3 month) project.  But our
> initial searches have been fairly unsuccessful.  We haven't actually
> posted a job on Monster, but we have been talking with various
> headhunters in our area and they don't have many resumes that show
> Python experience.  An so now, of course, mgt is wondering whether
> selecting Python was a mistake.

Yes, I'm beginning to think Python isn't as accepted as we think ;o)

I'm actually looking for a Python job now (in CA, not Atlanta) and it
seems that there's only a few out there, mostly at Google doing
SysAdmin stuff! Barely anyone actually lists Python as a main
requirement, more like a "nice to have" alongside Perl or C++.

I've seen no web development positions or prototyping/testing at all,
which seems strange to me, as I mainly use Python for RAD, prototyping
C++/Qt apps etc.

Guess I'm stuck with the old Perl/PHP etc....


From jacek.generowicz at cern.ch  Thu Apr  8 07:35:20 2004
From: jacek.generowicz at cern.ch (Jacek Generowicz)
Date: 08 Apr 2004 13:35:20 +0200
Subject: Indent testers needed (Prothon)
References: <Unqbc.131025$cx5.57643@fed1read04>
	<c51rpj$2nk5rd$1@ID-180326.news.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <tyf3c7ewvlz.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>

Jon Perez <jbperez808 at yahoo.com> writes:

> Perhaps the pro-spaces people can explain how they deal
> with it.

Emacs


From piotrus at sympatico.ca  Sun Apr 11 16:30:08 2004
From: piotrus at sympatico.ca (peter)
Date: Sun, 11 Apr 2004 20:30:08 GMT
Subject: Best IDE?
References: <c5bg1k$25vq$1@news.wplus.net>
Message-ID: <kVhec.2883$162.1981@twister.socal.rr.com>

i like eric3



"Stevie_mac" <no.email at please.com> wrote in message
news:c5bg1k$25vq$1 at news.wplus.net...
> This has prolly been asked 100 times - so please refrain from flaming if
you can...
>
> What's the best MSwindows editor for python?  I'm currently using
PythonWin (ActiveState) at the moment, its a bit
> buggy - but not too bad. I mean, its got autocomplete & tips & help &
autoindentaion (not always good tho).
>
> Thing is, I'm sure there is something better. Is there?
>
> (is there a VS.NET addin?)
>
>




From guettli at thomas-guettler.de  Fri Apr 16 09:09:40 2004
From: guettli at thomas-guettler.de (Thomas Guettler)
Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2004 15:09:40 +0200
Subject: (For gurus) Embed functions in webpages like in PHP?
References: <5eq4l1-9vm.ln1@pilz.hasos.com>
Message-ID: <pan.2004.04.16.13.09.40.28527@thomas-guettler.de>

Am Fri, 16 Apr 2004 12:38:16 +0200 schrieb Robert Ferber:

> Hi,
> 
> I'm  a PHP-programmer who evaluates Python for a new project.
> I really like a lot of concepts of Python, especially the shell, but there
> is one great feature of PHP which I don't know how to replace in Python:
> 
> For database-intensive webpages, I like to cache the HTML-output on the fly
> in the filesystem and put out the file later whenever the same URL is
> requested again, for example:

The problem with caching: When is
the data outdate?

You could use this approach:
Run a cron-job every hour which does the complicated
query which needs long to compute. Dump
the result into a file (Look for "pickle"
in the module index of the docs).

Load this file for every request
and insert this into the template.

HTH,
 Thomas



From rkern at ucsd.edu  Thu Apr 29 17:30:57 2004
From: rkern at ucsd.edu (Robert Kern)
Date: Thu, 29 Apr 2004 14:30:57 -0700
Subject: MATLAB2Python
In-Reply-To: <Kldkc.29551$Qc.1128987@twister1.libero.it>
References: <D2Xjc.28117$Qc.1080799@twister1.libero.it>
	<3064b51d.0404290654.58e59124@posting.google.com>
	<Kldkc.29551$Qc.1128987@twister1.libero.it>
Message-ID: <c6rs6i$5ua$1@news1.ucsd.edu>

Sarge wrote:

>>I have found numerous cases where Python programs run 10-100
>>times slower or more than a comparable Fortran 95 program. 
> 
> 
> Uh-oh. This is not fine.
> I want to switch to py in order to achieve more flexibility 
> especially in the areas of GUIs, distributed computing, and oo-
> programming. But I don't want my programs run 100 times slower!
> Is it possible to integrate some fortran compiled routines in order 
> to speed up the more time-consuming steps?

Why, yes! http://cens.ioc.ee/projects/f2py2e/

In my experience, the 10-100 factor only arises when you are doing all 
the looping in Python. If you can utilize Numeric arrays sufficiently, 
most of the looping goes down into fast C. So be wary of premature 
optimization: sometimes the Python code will run just as fast or fast 
enough (or faster!) than calling out to FORTRAN or C or C++.

> Thanx,
> Sarge
> 
> P.S. I have already tried Fortran95 for a while, but I found it's a 
> very old-fashioned language, more than Matlab itself, I didn't like 
> it very much.

-- 
Robert Kern
rkern at ucsd.edu

"In the fields of hell where the grass grows high
  Are the graves of dreams allowed to die."
   -- Richard Harter


From usenet at datahansa.com  Tue Apr 20 23:02:27 2004
From: usenet at datahansa.com (Oleg Paraschenko)
Date: 20 Apr 2004 20:02:27 -0700
Subject: Python GUI wrapper for a long operation
References: <de21d442.0404142156.2b9f7ef0@posting.google.com>
	<9396ba6f.0404160520.364699c4@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <de21d442.0404201902.429a6b22@posting.google.com>

Hello Stewart,

stewart at midwinter.ca (Stewart Midwinter) wrote in message
news:<9396ba6f.0404160520.364699c4 at posting.google.com>...
> good stuff!
> 
> I'll study your app for some clues for my own situation. I want to
> continually get data from a remote server, and then graph values that
> I have received, probably using Tkinter canvas widget.  Understanding
> threads will be helpful for me, so I'll study how you used threads in
> your app.

  I hope that the app will help you. Please beware that
documentation describes how things are done, but does not explain
why. It is so because some advanceed knowledge is assumed:

* threads,
* master-view-controller pattern (it is partially used in the code),
* logging in a log4j style.

> You may want to post your idea on the tkinter mailing list

  Thanks for the suggestion.

  Regards, Oleg


From newsgroups at jhrothjr.com  Fri Apr  9 08:16:24 2004
From: newsgroups at jhrothjr.com (John Roth)
Date: Fri, 9 Apr 2004 08:16:24 -0400
Subject: List vs tuples
References: <c54cjb$5fs$1@planja.arnes.si> <107bf8q8fhsmg5e@news.supernews.com>
	<7in05lfpqt.fsf@enark.csis.hku.hk>
Message-ID: <107d52rib5bfrd7@news.supernews.com>


"Isaac To" <kkto at csis.hku.hk> wrote in message
news:7in05lfpqt.fsf at enark.csis.hku.hk...
> >>>>> "John" == John Roth <newsgroups at jhrothjr.com> writes:
>
>     John> It's a common question. A list is a data structure that is
>     John> intended to be used with homogenous members; that is, with
members
>     John> of the same type.
>
> I feel you argument very strange.  Even that it might be the original
> intention, I see nothing in the language that support your argument.

Python is an extremely flexible and dynamic language. There's very
little specialized support for a lot of things. That doesn't mean that
the language designers didn't have that usage in mind.

> In particular, nothing says that tuples cannot be used (or is troublesome
to
> use) when members are of the same type.  And nothing says that lists
cannot
> be used (or is troublesome to use) when members are of different types.

Quite true. So what? Python, by design, does not get in your
way when you try to do strange and absurd things. For some
people in some situations, those things are undoubtedly going
to be the most obvious and reasonable way to approach their
problem.

> If getTime() give you a list instead, then [hours, minute, second] =
> getTime() would still give you the hours, minute and second variables
> assigned.

True. Again, so what? The basic conceptual issue, which
Don Cave explained much better than I did, is that any
subsequence of a list is of the same *conceptual* type as the
list itself. A subset of the fields of a struct is not of the same
conceptual type as the original struct. You cannot take the
third element of that time tuple and claim it is the same type
(a time of day) as the original.

> And you can use a list here as well.  Indeed, if you want to emulate C
> struct, you probably will use list instead of tuples, since in C, structs
> are mutable.

By the time I want to actually change the elements, I'm going
to want a full fledged object where I can refer to the various
elements by name.

As far as I'm concerned, tuples serve a fairly well defined niche.
I don't think they're all that successful a language feature for a
number of reasons, among which are that I much prefer to deal
with struct-like constructs by name, not by index position, and
growing a tuple into an object is a rather messy proposition for
exactly that reason.

The other major issue here is that you seem to be trying
to argue that tuples are unnecessary because lists can do
everything that tuples can, and more (except be used as
keys in dicts, besides they take up more memory and
they're slower.)

I don't buy that line of arguement. A large part of programming
is finding ways of expressing intent in the program so you
don't wonder what you did six months later. Tuples and lists
serve such different conceptual issues that they help expressiveness.

John Roth


>
> Regards,
> Isaac.




From newsgroups at jhrothjr.com  Sun Apr  4 18:41:16 2004
From: newsgroups at jhrothjr.com (John Roth)
Date: Sun, 4 Apr 2004 18:41:16 -0400
Subject: Difference between default arguments and keyword arguments
References: <UmTbc.9904$NL4.4809@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <10713rf4bjl1bab@news.supernews.com>


"Edward Diener" <eldiener at earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:UmTbc.9904$NL4.4809 at newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net...
> In the tutorial on functions there are sections on default arguments and
> keyword arguments, yet I don't see the syntactic difference between them.
> For default arguments the tutorial shows:
>
> def ask_ok(prompt, retries=4, complaint='Yes or no, please!'):
>
> while for keyword arguments the tutorial shows:
>
> def parrot(voltage, state='a stiff', action='voom', type='Norwegian
Blue'):
>
> The syntax 'keyword = value' is used for both as far as I can see. How
does
> one distinguish between them or are they both part of the same combined
> concept, which is: if one calls the function with less than the required
> number of arguments but does specify keyword values, those values are
used,
> else the defaults are supplied. Or is there really a syntactic difference
> between default arguments and keyword arguments which I have missed above
?

The difference (from the tutorial) is that default arguements apply to
the function *definition*, while keyword arguements apply to the
function *call*. It's a subtle difference that does seem to be quite
easy to miss.

In going through the tutorial I also noticed that it explained
the * notation, but not the ** notation. I think this also needs
to be repaired - if one is in the tutorial, both should be.

John Roth




From ramen at lackingtalent.com  Sat Apr 17 18:43:43 2004
From: ramen at lackingtalent.com (Dave Benjamin)
Date: Sat, 17 Apr 2004 22:43:43 -0000
Subject: CamelCase versus wide_names (Prothon)
References: <UHxfc.9323$dZ1.3740@fed1read04>
	<pan.2004.04.16.01.04.02.124611@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <slrnc83ddn.ijn.ramen@lackingtalent.com>

In article <pan.2004.04.16.01.04.02.124611 at hotmail.com>, Paramjit Oberoi wrote:
> * the real problem is the absence of a character for
>   indicating non-breaking spaces---that's why we have
>   to use all these damn_WorkArounds.

That's so funny; I was just thinking the same thing myself. After all these
years, they couldn't just make it easier to press? That's the only problem
here, IMHO; I *much* prefer reading lowercase_with_underscores. I never
noticed how much until I read this thread, because I have a slight hangover
and all these capWordsAreLiterallyGivingMeAHeadache. ;)

Out of curiosity, do most of us prefer CamelCaps for class names, regardless
of our opinions on variables, functions, methods, etc.? I almost never see
class names defined in lowercase unless they're built-in or user-defined
types meant to look like they're built-in.

-- 
.:[ dave benjamin: ramen/[sp00] -:- spoomusic.com -:- ramenfest.com ]:.
:  please talk to your son or daughter about parametric polymorphism. :


From missive at frontiernet.net  Wed Apr  7 16:40:56 2004
From: missive at frontiernet.net (Lee Harr)
Date: Wed, 07 Apr 2004 20:40:56 GMT
Subject: Zope - how to import whole folder at once?
References: <c51m68$ok4$1@flis.man.torun.pl>
Message-ID: <sHZcc.961$oQ.819@news01.roc.ny>

On 2004-04-07, Lukasz Indyk <dyzma at mat.uni.torun.pl> wrote:
> im's sorry if it's wrong group to ask this question, but i could not 
> find any that seems to be better ...
>
> i have existing web site (written in html and javascript only, no php 
> etc.), and i want to integrate it with zope. i can add every page, image 
> etc. one by one using import, but i would like to add it at once.
>


You might try ZipFolder. Requires you to zip first, but it would work.

Or, you could use FTP or WebDAV to do the import.

Either way, you may have trouble getting methods to be methods and
not just plain files. You can fix that with customized import filters.

You are probably best off asking this question on the zope at zope.org
mailing list.



From Vincent.Raaijmakers at ge.com  Mon Apr  5 10:09:28 2004
From: Vincent.Raaijmakers at ge.com (Raaijmakers, Vincent (GE Infrastructure))
Date: Mon, 5 Apr 2004 09:09:28 -0500
Subject: Looking for cookbook/recipe generating multipart web data
Message-ID: <971323274247EB44B9A01D0A3B424C8507F5AFA3@FTWMLVEM02.e2k.ad.ge.com>

My web server (apache+mod_python) needs to reply on some session with a multipart connection. 
My idea is to use the content-type of multipart/mixed; boundary=--myboundary

The data that I would like to send is a continuous stream of data, divided by that boundary.
Well, there are tons of examples on the web how to encode such a stream on the client side, but I can't find an example how to generate this data using mod_python.

So for now in the very simple example, my code looks like:

req.content_type("multipart/mixed; boundary=--myboundary")
while forever:
	data = "--myboudary\r\n%s" % getData()
	req.write(data)

However, for every req.write,  len(data) + lfcr + boundary/data + lfcr is send out and I just want to send boudary/data like I see in existing applications on the web and described in the w3 norms of multipart.

What is the correct way of doing this? Where can I find the proper cookbook?

Thanks, 
Vincent



From fumanchu at amor.org  Wed Apr  7 16:41:38 2004
From: fumanchu at amor.org (Robert Brewer)
Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2004 13:41:38 -0700
Subject: list comprehensions
Message-ID: <DE1CF2B4FEC4A342BF62B6B2B334601E561FCC@opus.amorhq.net>

Elaine Jackson wrote:
> List comprehensions don't work the way you intuitively expect 
> them to work.
>
> partitions = lambda n: [[n]]+[[k]+x for x in partitions(n-k) for k in
> range(1,n)]
> 
> As defined above, the function raises an exception when you 
> call it ('k'
> referenced before assignment). For the sake of clarity, here 
> is workable code
> expressing the same intention:
> 
> def partitions(n):
>     reVal=[[n]]
>     for k in range(1,n):
>         for x in partitions(n-k):
>             reVal.append([k]+x)
>     return reVal
> 
> So I guess what I want to ask is: Can somebody explain the 
> semantics of list comprehensions to me?

Try reversing the loops:

>>> partitions = lambda n: [[n]]+[[k]+x for k in range(1,n) for x in
partitions(n-k)]
>>> partitions(3)
[[3], [1, 2], [1, 1, 1], [2, 1]]

When writing combined comprehensions, you write the "for" elements in
the same order they would be in the expanded code.


Robert Brewer
MIS
Amor Ministries
fumanchu at amor.org



From no.mail at available.net  Thu Apr 29 11:26:07 2004
From: no.mail at available.net (Georgy)
Date: Thu, 29 Apr 2004 15:26:07 GMT
Subject: static keyword
References: <f8097096.0404290607.78aa9ce3@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <j89kc.47568$6m4.4154983@twister.southeast.rr.com>


"Nick Jacobson" <nicksjacobson at yahoo.com> wrote in message news:f8097096.0404290607.78aa9ce3 at posting.google.com...
| I believe the following "static" command would be useful in Python.
|
| def foo():
|     static i = [10, 11]
|     static firstcall = True
|     if firstcall:
|         print "First pass"
|         firstcall = False
|     i[0] += 1
|     print i[0]
| foo()
| foo()
|
|
| This would output:
|
| First pass
| 11
| 12
|
| Just like in C, the variables i and firstcall are only assigned the
| first time foo() is called.  To get this effect currently, one could
| use default arguments or wrapping the whole thing in a class.  Both of
| these solutions seem like hacks, the above method IMO is more
| Pythonic. :)

"Pythonic" way is to use the oddity of default arguments:

def foo( static_vars = {'i':[10, 11],'firstcall':True} ):
    if static_vars['firstcall']:
        print "First pass"
        static_vars['firstcall'] = False
    static_vars['i'][0] += 1
    print static_vars['i'][0]
foo()
foo()

--
Georgy




From michele.simionato at poste.it  Tue Apr  6 07:14:52 2004
From: michele.simionato at poste.it (Michele Simionato)
Date: 6 Apr 2004 04:14:52 -0700
Subject: Using function parameters to determine method kind
References: <4qrzym6e.fsf@telus.net>
	<95aa1afa.0404050417.2d11b369@posting.google.com>
	<knu270d99b9b1i9pcsj1vkchp86gemje6k@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <95aa1afa.0404060314.7bc4541b@posting.google.com>

Gon?alo Rodrigues <op73418 at mail.telepac.pt> wrote in message news:<knu270d99b9b1i9pcsj1vkchp86gemje6k at 4ax.com>...
> On 5 Apr 2004 05:17:39 -0700, michele.simionato at poste.it (Michele
> Simionato) wrote:
> 
> [text snipped]
> 
> >I am also waiting for a better "super" but it seems nobody is talking 
> >about it.
> 
> Well then, here is your chance: what are the problems of super? I also
> found that it has a couple of glitches, but I'd like to know more.
> 
> With my best regards,
> G. Rodrigues

I wrote once an essay collecting all the shortcomings of "super" I found in my
explorations; maybe one day or another I will finish it and post it somewhere. 
But it requires a good amount of work, so do not expect it too soon.

          Michele Simionato


From joe at notcharles.ca  Tue Apr 20 17:09:42 2004
From: joe at notcharles.ca (Joe Mason)
Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 21:09:42 GMT
Subject: Dollar sign ($) on foriegn keyboards? (prothon)
References: <mk3hc.13895$dZ1.10823@fed1read04>
	<mailman.793.1082468190.20120.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <slrnc8b4b7.rg4.joe@gate.notcharles.ca>

In article <mailman.793.1082468190.20120.python-list at python.org>, Fredrik Lundh wrote:
> Mark Hahn wrote:?
> 
>> We are considering switching to the dollar sign ($) for self, instead of the
>> period ( . ) we are using now in Prothon.
> 
> any reason you cannot set up a mailing list for your little pet
> project?  you're generating tons of off-topic traffic, and frankly,
> I don't think I'm the only one who couldn't care less about your
> pre-alpha hack with minimum capabilities.

There is a mailing list, it's got tons of traffic, and I think Mark's
being pretty judicious in what he posts here.

Joe


From aku at europe.com  Wed Apr  7 05:26:34 2004
From: aku at europe.com (aku)
Date: 07 Apr 2004 09:26:34 GMT
Subject: design by contract versus doctest
References: <407174ea$0$5066$4d4ebb8e@news.nl.uu.net>
	<4072977b$0$1699$afc38c87@news.easynet.co.uk>
	<opr51bkaaeyxrafp@nntphost.dur.ac.uk>
	<4072a7d3$0$23314$afc38c87@news.easynet.co.uk>
	<opr51ffat9yxrafp@nntphost.dur.ac.uk>
	<4072c7f0$0$23294$afc38c87@news.easynet.co.uk>
Message-ID: <4073c94a$1$5066$4d4ebb8e@news.nl.uu.net>

On 2004-04-06, Peter Hickman <peter at semantico.com> wrote:
>  Colin Blackburn wrote:
> > Aku is correct, no checks are (necessarily) made by the function in  
> > installed code. It is the caller's responsibility to satisfy the  
> > pre-conditions.
> 
>  True but the caller does not check the pre-conditions, that is done in 
>  the called. The called does not trust the caller to get things right, 
>  hence the contract.
> 
> > In the installed code the pre-conditions are not necessarily 
> > implemented  therefore the function cannot refuse to run since it does 
> > not know its  pre-condition at this stage.
> 
>  I can think of no good reason to turn off checking of the pre and post 
>  conditions unless you can guarantee that the live system will never 
>  encounter a combination of inputs and states that have not already been 
>  tested for. You hardly need DbC for such hubris.

Isn't that where doc/unit tests can serve a purpose? In other words: 
These tests will test many combinations of states and inputs , so that
in the live system the DBC can be turned off.

> >> Getting the require section to pass is no guarantee that the  
> >> post-conditions (ensure section) will be met, the do section is code  
> >> like anything else and may get things wrong.
> > 
> > In correctly developed DbC that is precisely what is guaranteed. The  
> > post-condition is *guaranteed* if the pre-condition is met. It is a 
> > design  tool.
> 
>  Not sure I would want to state that, or rely on it. I would only go as 
>  far as saying what I have tested is guaranteed. But then I am paranoid.

"program testing can best show the presence of errors 
but never their absence" -- E. Dijkstra
His formal methods indeed *proved* and *guaranteed* that the
postcondition(s) are met IF the precondition(s) were true.




From ptmcg at austin.rr._bogus_.com  Mon Apr 12 19:12:15 2004
From: ptmcg at austin.rr._bogus_.com (Paul McGuire)
Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2004 23:12:15 GMT
Subject: String + number split
References: <2SAec.70005$Id.6002@news-binary.blueyonder.co.uk>
	<mfydnfKTtqtWRufdRVn-uQ@powergate.ca>
	<c5epc8$1scu$1@news.wplus.net>
Message-ID: <jnFec.27901$Y45.23834@fe2.texas.rr.com>

"Stevie_mac" <no.email at please.com> wrote in message
news:c5epc8$1scu$1 at news.wplus.net...
> > It's impossible to say if it's more elegant, since you didn't
> > post your attempt.
>     Yeh, sorry bout tha!
>
> >  (Homework?  I'll assume not.)
>     Only a student of life!
>
> Heres my solution...
>
> import string
> def makefont(sFontName):
>     num = []
>     nam = []
>     acnt = 0
>     #reverse it
>     l = list(sFontName); l.reverse(); ''.join(l)
>     sFontName = string.join(l,'')
>      #now loop it while isdigit(), store number, then store alphas
>     for c in sFontName:
>         if c.isdigit() and acnt == 0:
>             num.append(c)
>         elif c.isalpha() or acnt > 1:
>             acnt += 1
>             nam.append(c)
>     nam.reverse()
>     num.reverse()
>     return (string.join( nam, '' ), int(string.join( num, '' )))
>
> Now you see why i was asking for a more elegant solution!
>
> PS, the number on the end may vary  &  the _ could be any non alpha char!
>
>  font12        becomes         ('font',12)
>  arial_14      becomes        ('arial',14)
>  arial__8      becomes        ('arial',8)
>  times 6      becomes        ('times',6)
>

(You might find using pyparsing a little more readable than regexp...)

-------------------------------------------
# download pyparsing at http://pyparsing.sourceforge.net
from pyparsing import Word, alphas, CharsNotIn, nums, Optional

str2int = lambda s,l,t: [int(t[0])]
fontNameSpec = ( Word(alphas).setResultsName("font") +
                 Optional( CharsNotIn(alphas+nums).suppress() ) +
                 Word(nums).setParseAction(str2int).setResultsName("size") )

testdata = [ "font12", "arial_14", "arial__8", "times 6" ]

for fname in testdata:
    results = fontNameSpec.parseString( fname )
    print results
    for k in results.keys():
        print "-", "results."+k, ":", results[k]
    print

-------------------------------------------

prints:
['font', 12]
- results.font : font
- results.size : 12

['arial', 14]
- results.font : arial
- results.size : 14

['arial', 8]
- results.font : arial
- results.size : 8

['times', 6]
- results.font : times
- results.size : 6




From arigo at tunes.org  Sat Apr  3 17:31:59 2004
From: arigo at tunes.org (Armin Rigo)
Date: Sat, 3 Apr 2004 23:31:59 +0100
Subject: Python is faster than C
In-Reply-To: <DE1CF2B4FEC4A342BF62B6B2B334601E561FAC@opus.amorhq.net>
References: <DE1CF2B4FEC4A342BF62B6B2B334601E561FAC@opus.amorhq.net>
Message-ID: <20040403223159.GA7715@vicky.ecs.soton.ac.uk>

Hello Robert,

On Sat, Apr 03, 2004 at 12:30:38PM -0800, Robert Brewer wrote:
> > enumerate() should return a normal list, and
> > it should be someone else's job to ensure that it is 
> > correctly optimized away if possible
> 
> I'd like to think I'm not understanding your point, but you made it so
> danged *clear*.
> 
> Enumerate should absolutely *not* return a normal list.

You missed my point indeed.  There are two levels here: one is the language
specification (the programmer's experience), and one is the CPython
implementation.  My point is that with some more cleverness in the
implementation, iterators would be much less needed at the language
specification level (I'm not saying never, I think generators are great, for
example).

> The use case I think you're missing is when I do not want the enumeration
> optimized at all; I want it performed on-the-fly on purpose:

This is what I mean by "optimized": done lazily, on-the-fly.  I want better
implementations of lists, callbacks-on-changes, static bytecode analysis, and
more.  I don't want another notion than lists at the language level.  Your
example:

> for i, line in enumerate(file('40GB.csv')):

is among the easiest to optimize, even if the language specification said that
enumerate returns a list.  I can think of several ways to do that.  For
example, because the result of enumerate() is only ever used in a for loop, it
knows it can internally return an iterator instead of the whole list.  There
are some difficulties, but nothing critical.  Another option which is harder
in CPython but which we are experimenting with in PyPy would be to return a
Python object of type 'list' but with a different, lazy implementation.

> Forcing enumerate to return a list would drag not only the entire
> 40GB.csv into memory, but also the entire set of i. Using an iterator in
> this case instead of a list *is* the optimization.

Yes, and I'm ranting against the idea that the programmer should be bothered
about it, when it could be as efficient automatically.  From the programmer's
perspective, iterators are mostly like a sequence that you can only access
once and in order.  A better implementation can figure out for itself when you
are only accessing this sequence once and in order.  I mean, it is just like
range(1000000) which is a list all right, but there is just no reason why this
list should consume 4MB of CPython's memory when the same information can be
encoded in a couple of ints as long as you don't change the list.  The
language doesn't need xrange() -- it is an implementation issue that shows up
in the Python language.


Armin




From anton at vredegoor.doge.nl  Thu Apr  8 16:59:46 2004
From: anton at vredegoor.doge.nl (Anton Vredegoor)
Date: Thu, 08 Apr 2004 22:59:46 +0200
Subject: Working with bytes.
References: <406EE606.4000604@yahoo.com>
	<mailman.308.1081013778.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<406f33b6$0$30963$3a628fcd@reader1.nntp.hccnet.nl>
	<wzk70vrbnv.fsf@Ordesa.local>
	<4071273d$0$132$3a628fcd@reader1.nntp.hccnet.nl>
	<4071539F.718DBD1A@pobox.com>
	<40759a1c$0$140$3a628fcd@reader1.nntp.hccnet.nl>
Message-ID: <4075bd7d$0$137$3a628fcd@reader2.nntp.hccnet.nl>

anton at vredegoor.doge.nl (Anton Vredegoor) wrote:

> http://www.faqs.org/rfcs/rfc1924.html 

Replying to my own post. I was using lowercase letters before
uppercase and did some other non compliant things. Because I was using
random data I didn't notice. The code below should reproduce the
rfc1924 example. 

Anton

from binascii import hexlify
from string import digits, ascii_lowercase, ascii_uppercase

_rfc1924_letters =  ascii_uppercase + ascii_lowercase
_rfc1924_chars = digits+_rfc1924_letters+'!#$%&()*+-;<=>?@^_`{|}~'
_rfc1924_table = dict([(c,i) for i,c in enumerate(_rfc1924_chars)])
_rfc1924_bases = [85L**i for i in range(19,-1,-1)]

def bytes_to_rfc1924(sixteen):
    res = []
    i = 0L
    for byte in sixteen:
        i <<= 8
        i |= ord(byte)
    for j in range(20):
        i,k = divmod(i,85)
        res.append(_rfc1924_chars[k])
    res.reverse()
    return "".join(res)

def rfc1924_to_bytes(twenty):
    res = []
    i = 0L
    for b,byte in zip(_rfc1924_bases,twenty):
        i +=  b * _rfc1924_table[byte]
    for j in range(16):
        i,k = divmod(i,256)
        res.append(chr(k))
    res.reverse()
    return "".join(res)

def bytes_as_ipv6(bytes):
    addr = [bytes[i:i+2] for i in range(0,16,2)]
    return ":".join(map(hexlify,addr))
    
def test():
    s = "4)+k&C#VzJ4br>0wv%Yp"
    bytes = rfc1924_to_bytes(s)
    check = bytes_to_rfc1924(bytes)
    assert s == check
    addr = bytes_as_ipv6(bytes)
    print addr
    
if __name__=='__main__':
    test()

output:

1080:0000:0000:0000:0008:0800:200c:417a






From paddy3118 at netscape.net  Wed Apr 21 19:23:50 2004
From: paddy3118 at netscape.net (Paddy McCarthy)
Date: 21 Apr 2004 16:23:50 -0700
Subject: [PROTHON] Subject groupings
Message-ID: <2ae25c6b.0404211523.4d153393@posting.google.com>

Hi,
I have noticed the use of '['<subheading>']' in the far left of the
subject field to denote a grouping of threads in other newsgroups and
I propose that starters of threads on prothon might start the subject
with [PROTHON] ...

Over time, other newsgroups have collected a few such group headings
and publish them in their FAQ.

P.S. it is a *suggestion* .

Cheers, Pad.


From FBatista at uniFON.com.ar  Mon Apr 19 12:27:44 2004
From: FBatista at uniFON.com.ar (Batista, Facundo)
Date: Mon, 19 Apr 2004 13:27:44 -0300
Subject: Problems using modulo
Message-ID: <A128D751272CD411BC9200508BC2194D033838B3@escpl.tcp.com.ar>

[Brian Gough]

#- > Results:
#- > 5.9 mod 2.0 = 1.9
#- > 6.0 mod 2.0 = 2.0 !!!!!!
#- > 6.1 mod 2.0 = 0.1
#- > 
#- > I don't know much about how Python does its floating point, but it
#- > seems like a bug to me ?
#- 
#- This is a common "feature" of floating-point arithmetic.  
#- 0.1 does not
#- have an exact machine representation in binary, so the numbers
#- displayed are not exact (e.g. 6.0 is actually 5.9999999... with a
#- difference O(10^-15)).  There is an appendix in the Python tutorial
#- which discusses this, with more examples.

You can read also PEP 327 where I propose the Decimal data type, a decimal
floating point.


#- > What is the best workaround so that I can get my code working as
#- > desired ?
#- > (ie I just want to tell whether my time "t" is an exact multiple of
#- > the time interval, 2.0 seconds in this case).
#- 
#- For exact arithmetic, work with integers (e.g. in this case multiply
#- everything 10) or compute the difference from zero in the modulus, d,
#- 
#-   s = t % interval
#-   d = min (s, interval-s)
#- 
#- and compare it with a small tolerance, e.g. 1e-10 or something
#- appropriate to your problem. HTH.

...or work with Decimal.

.	Facundo





. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
ADVERTENCIA  

La informaci?n contenida en este mensaje y cualquier archivo anexo al mismo,
son para uso exclusivo del destinatario y pueden contener informaci?n
confidencial o propietaria, cuya divulgaci?n es sancionada por la ley. 

Si Ud. No es uno de los destinatarios consignados o la persona responsable
de hacer llegar este mensaje a los destinatarios consignados, no est?
autorizado a divulgar, copiar, distribuir o retener informaci?n (o parte de
ella) contenida en este mensaje. Por favor notif?quenos respondiendo al
remitente, borre el mensaje original y borre las copias (impresas o grabadas
en cualquier medio magn?tico) que pueda haber realizado del mismo. 

Todas las opiniones contenidas en este mail son propias del autor del
mensaje y no necesariamente coinciden con las de Telef?nica Comunicaciones
Personales S.A. o alguna empresa asociada. 

Los mensajes electr?nicos pueden ser alterados, motivo por el cual
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From matthew at coredumps.net  Thu Apr 15 06:47:06 2004
From: matthew at coredumps.net (Matthew)
Date: 15 Apr 2004 03:47:06 -0700
Subject: [Newbie Q on String & List Manipulation]
Message-ID: <567a7c35.0404150247.7809bef5@posting.google.com>

Hello All,

    today is the first day i try to programming in Python,
    my assignment is, write a silly script that probably
    will run a few times a day to check if the Gmail services
    is ready or not. ;)

    however, i encountered some problem when playing with the
    list and string.

    i'm using Python 2.2.2 on Redhat. if i write something like:

        a = "one"
        b = "two"
        a += b
        print a

    i will get:

        onetwo

    ok, seems quite ok, however, not sure why it doesn't work on
    my silly Gmail script (pls refer to my script belows):

        for item in thecookies:
            mycookies += item

        print mycookies

    i have exactly 4 items in the "thecookies" list, however, when
    printing out "mycookies", it just show the last item (in fact,
    seems the 4 items have been overlapped each others).

    could somebody pls kindly take a look at my silly script and
    gimme some advise?

    thanks very much in advance! :)

---
matthew




import re
import string
import sys
import urllib

user = "da at email.address"
pswd = "dapassword"

schm = "https://"
host = "www.google.com"
path = "/accounts/ServiceLoginBoxAuth"
qstr = {"service"  : "mail",                     \
        "continue" : "http://gmail.google.com/", \
        "Email"    : user,                       \
        "Passwd"   : pswd}

qstr = urllib.urlencode(qstr)

url  = schm + host + path + "?" + qstr

conn = urllib.urlopen(url)

headers  = conn.info().headers
response = conn.read()

thecookies = []

#
# extract all the Set-Cookie from the HTTP response header and put it in thecookies
#

for header in headers:
        matches = re.compile("^Set-Cookie: (.*)$").search(header)
        if matches:
                thecookies.append(matches.group(1))

#
# make sure we've grep the SID or die
#

foundsessionid = 0

for item in thecookies:
        if re.compile("^SID").search(item):
                foundsessionid = 1
                break

if not foundsessionid:
        print "> Failded to retrieve the \"SID\" cookie"
        sys.exit()

#
# grep the GV cookie from the HTTP response or die
#

matches = re.compile("^\s*var cookieVal= \"(.*)\";.*", re.M).search(response)

if matches:
        thecookies.append("GV=" + matches.group(1))
else:
        print "> Failed to retrieve the \"GV\" cookie"
        sys.exit()

print thecookies

mycookies = ""

for item in thecookies:
        mycookies += item

print mycookies

#
# still got many things to do right here...
#

sys.exit()


From ep at epoz.org  Fri Apr  9 05:29:48 2004
From: ep at epoz.org (Etienne Posthumus)
Date: Fri, 9 Apr 2004 11:29:48 +0200
Subject: xmlrpc, httplib and SSL (HTTP 1.1 XMLRPC client)
In-Reply-To: <56vtj1-2rp.ln1@home.rogerbinns.com>
References: <f1bfj1-3s.ln1@home.rogerbinns.com>
	<mailman.221.1080820488.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<56vtj1-2rp.ln1@home.rogerbinns.com>
Message-ID: <71CA9CAF-8A08-11D8-8D68-0003935458F6@epoz.org>


On Apr 1, 2004, at 7:13 PM, Roger Binns wrote:
> Are you sure you are actually getting persistent connections?  The
> code will auto-close and auto-open the connection even just keeping
> the same HTTP connection object.

Yes, I definitely get persistent connections. I sat staring at the 
server logs, the requests kept coming from the same source-port.
Which code do you refer to that auto-closes, and auto-opens the 
connection?
If you use that Persistent transport it skips the .close() after each 
request part.

> In order for the connection to not be auto-closed, the remote end
> must return a HTTP/1.1 response (see 
> httplib.HTTPResponse._check_close).

Also remember to include a Content-Length header.
That one bit me before, in some of my replies I had forgotten to 
include it in my server. You can then very clearly see the clients 
dropping the connection, and rightly so.

> If your server end is Python, then it will always close the connection
> unless the request was HTTP/1.1 *and* a 'Connection: keep-alive' header
> was sent, which the Python client does not do.

Which Python client do you refer to? I presume you mean the standard 
xmlrpclib client, and then yes, it explicitly does HTTP 1.0.

BTW, in HTTP 1.1 keeping connections open is the default, so you do NOT 
have to specify Connection: keep-alive in the header.
Although it is the default to keep the connections open, the client or 
the server can close them at any time.


---
Etienne Posthumus
Amsterdam, Nederland
Python, Zope, Quixote -
programmer for hire... but not for sale.




From dek at pabst.lbl.gov  Mon Apr  5 16:28:38 2004
From: dek at pabst.lbl.gov (David E. Konerding DSD staff)
Date: Mon, 5 Apr 2004 20:28:38 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: allocate TWO interpreters in a C program?
References: <c4phk7$77o$1@schleim.qwe.de>
	<4Vicc.16932$lt2.13201@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <slrnc73gbm.2tp.dek@pabst.lbl.gov>

In article <4Vicc.16932$lt2.13201 at newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>, Andrew Dalke wrote:
> Torsten Mohr:
>> i can embed Perl into a C program and allocate MORE THAN ONE
>> interpreter if i want to.  They are independent from each other.
>>
>> Is this also possible in Python?
> 
> As no one else has answered, I'll take a stab at it, on the assumption
> that a wrong answer will be corrected.
> 
> No, it isn't possible.  Various bits of state, like exceptions, are stored
> in global variable (actually thread global I think).  I think there is other
> global state, like sys.modules which contains all of the imported modules.
> 
> There are experimental systems like PyPy which can provide
> independent interpreters but I know little about them.
> 
>                     Andrew
>                     dalke at dalkescientific.com
> 
> 

Actually, more than one *sub*-interpreter can be instantiated in a single C program.

http://python.org/doc/current/api/initialization.html

However, upon close reading, it's hardly as independent as you might hope.

But for fun also read:

http://www.python.org/peps/pep-0311.html

since it seems to imply that multiple subinterpreters are not a frequently used feature.

Dave


From ramen at lackingtalent.com  Mon Apr 19 12:55:23 2004
From: ramen at lackingtalent.com (Dave Benjamin)
Date: Mon, 19 Apr 2004 16:55:23 -0000
Subject: Difficulty finding Python employer
References: <407e9164$0$122$3a628fcd@reader3.nntp.hccnet.nl>
	<slrnc83p3k.tdb.ramen@lackingtalent.com>
	<40824dca$0$136$3a628fcd@reader1.nntp.hccnet.nl>
Message-ID: <slrnc881ol.jua.ramen@lackingtalent.com>

In article <40824dca$0$136$3a628fcd at reader1.nntp.hccnet.nl>, Anton Vredegoor wrote:
> Dave Benjamin:
> 
>>> Will send no resume. Can't stand hype. Must telecommute.
>>
>>That could explain your difficulty...
> 
> Yes, my resume is less than useless. An academic education as a social
> scientist, a few years work at a university followed by a lot of years
> of unemployment, very lightly sprinkled by short term programming
> jobs. 

You could always invent a programming language; it seems to have helped
Guido segue into the commercial work force. =) The light sprinkling of
temporary work will probably hurt you. I got a hard time from employers for
that, even though a) I was in school, b) short-term job-hopping was
practically the norm for the tech industry until a few years ago.

But in any case, I didn't mean to mock you, I honestly thought you were
either joking or that I was misreading or misunderstanding your message.

> The other conditions I also can't do much about except switching
> identity and relocating. 

Well, if you truly must telecommute, I can't say that you picked a
particularly bad field. =) Also, keep in mind that an open source project
can make a nice resume builder, and give you experience, and give you the
opportunity to network (in the social sense) and meet people that just might
be instrumental to your future.

Best wishes,
Dave

-- 
.:[ dave benjamin: ramen/[sp00] -:- spoomusic.com -:- ramenfest.com ]:.
:  please talk to your son or daughter about parametric polymorphism. :


From JimJJewett at yahoo.com  Mon Apr  5 20:36:21 2004
From: JimJJewett at yahoo.com (Jim Jewett)
Date: 5 Apr 2004 17:36:21 -0700
Subject: ANN:  easylog
Message-ID: <mailman.1081212122.18779.clpa-moderators@python.org>

The standard library logging package is very powerful, but 
does not scale *down* well.  

Any configuration -- even just saving messages to a file 
rather than the console -- requires a fair amount of setup 
or glue code.  

easylog wraps the standard library, to minimize the amount 
of logging-specific code in your own script or application.

    >>> from easylog import critical, error, warning, debug, info
    >>> debug("getFoo requesting %d %s", 42, "answers")
    >>> error("getFoo says %d of those %s are lousy!", 19, "answers")
    ERROR:easylog.easylog:getFoo says 19 of those answers are lousy!

Both messages are captured in the logfile, but only the error 
is shown onscreen.

If you want to change the logfile name/which messages are 
captured/the output format, etc, you can do that with a single call.

Alpha version 0.2.0 is available under the Python Software Foundation 
License at http://sourceforge.net/projects/easylog/

Please send comments to JimJJewett at yahoo.com.





<P><A HREF="http://sourceforge.net/projects/easylog/">easylog 0.2.0</A> 
works with the standard logging package to minimize logging-specific 
code in your application..  (05-04-04)



From j.ezequiel at spitech.com  Wed Apr 28 01:41:32 2004
From: j.ezequiel at spitech.com (Ezequiel, Justin)
Date: Wed, 28 Apr 2004 13:41:32 +0800
Subject: wxpython + py2exe + innosetup
Message-ID: <2484E6467140254CB22A328F5E18A23501574C11@SPI-MAIL2003.SPITECH.COM>

FWIW, I had a similar problem but was not using INNO; just py2exe, COM,
anygui, and easygui.
My problem was fixed when I included PythonCOM22.dll in the
distribution.

Python 2.2.2 (#37, Oct 14 2002, 17:02:34) [MSC 32 bit (Intel)] on win32
py2exe version 0.4.0



From __peter__ at web.de  Wed Apr 21 13:05:08 2004
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2004 19:05:08 +0200
Subject: Optimizing a text statistics function
References: <c661pe$tie$1@f1node01.rhrz.uni-bonn.de>
Message-ID: <c669k5$c52$07$1@news.t-online.com>

Nickolay Kolev wrote:

> I am currently writing some simple functions in the process of learning
> Python. I have a task where the program has to read in a text file and
> display some statistics about the tokens in that file.
> 
> The text I have been feeding it is Dickens' David Copperfield.
> 
> It is really simple - it reads the file in memory, splits it on
> whitespace, strips punctuation characters and transforms all remaining
> elements to lowercase. It then looks through what has been left and
> creates a list of tuples (count, word) which contain each unique word
> and the number of time it appears in the text.
> 
> The code (~30 lines and easy to read :-) can be found at
> http://www.uni-bonn.de/~nmkolev/python/textStats.py
> 
> I am now looking for a way to make the whole thing run faster. I have
> already made many changes since the initial version, realising many
> mistakes. As I do not think of anything else, I thought I would ask the
> more knowledgeable.
> 
> I find the two loops through the initial list a bit troubling. Could
> this be avoided?
> 
> Any other remarks and suggestions will also be greatly appreciated.

I'd probably do this with regular expressions, either with r.split() where r
matches the spaces between the words or r.finditer() where r matches the
words.

But since you were asking for speed, another approach might be faster. First
I normalize all non-word characters to space and all alpha-chars to
lowercase. Note that this may yield different word frequencies as e.g.
"two.words" will be 2 words with my and one word with your approach.

from __future__ import division
import string, sys

def main(filename):
    # caveat: assumes one byte per character
    repl = string.whitespace + string.punctuation
    tr = string.maketrans(repl, len(repl)*" ").lower()
    assert len(tr) == 256

    words = file(filename).read().translate(tr).split()
    histogram = {}
    wordCount = len(words)
    for word in words:
        histogram[word] = histogram.get(word, 0) + 1

    wordCountList = [(c, w) for w, c in histogram.items()]
    wordCountList.sort()
    wordCountList.reverse()

    print
    for freq, word in wordCountList[:10]:
        print '%15r %5d     %5.2f%%' % (word, freq, freq / wordCount * 100)
    print

if __name__ == "__main__":
    main(sys.argv[1])

Other remarks: 
Speed is not that important most of the time.
Psyco offers speed for free.
You might consider switching to 4-space indent.

Peter



From cliechti at gmx.net  Wed Apr 28 17:16:41 2004
From: cliechti at gmx.net (Chris Liechti)
Date: Wed, 28 Apr 2004 21:16:41 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Parallel port interface
References: <ln9ul1-9h4.ln1@wintermute.g2ctech>
	<m31xm8vy96.fsf@hare.demon.co.uk>
Message-ID: <Xns94D9ECCB89954cliechtigmxnet@62.2.16.4>

Les Smithson <lsmithso at NOhare.SPAM.demon.co.uk> wrote in 
news:m31xm8vy96.fsf at hare.demon.co.uk:

> Would ioport.py help? See:
> http://www.hare.demon.co.uk/ioport/ioport.html.
> 
> Its Linux only atm, but it wouldn't be hard to port to Windows. I
> might even do it myself!

you need to make a compiled extension with the inb and outb functions. i 
have done that for pyparallel. thats the easy part, then you have to find a 
driver that allows io port access on win NT/2k/XP. i used giveio.sys and 
you'll find it on the page below too.

http://pyserial.sf.net/pyparallel.html

chris

-- 
Chris <cliechti at gmx.net>
http://pyserial.sf.net


From jbore at tjtech.com  Tue Apr 13 12:52:08 2004
From: jbore at tjtech.com (Joseph T. Bore)
Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2004 16:52:08 GMT
Subject: interpreter limits
Message-ID: <m3zn9f95xm.fsf@union.tjtech.com>


I'm embedding python in my app, and I'm using it as a scripting
language for it, everything works great.  

My only concern is how to handle the possibility that a user
accidentally puts an infinite loop in the code that gets called by the
app.

Something as simple as a function that has as it's body:

          while 1:
                pass

would require the application to be killed.  Hopefully this will
rarely happen, but it's a *real* and unacceptable possibility.

Looking around, it seems that this has occasionally been brought up by
others, but no solution has been arrived at.  I even looked at grail,
figuring that perhaps there were some controls put in for the python
applets it would load, but no luck there either it seems.

I dont know a heck of a lot about the implementation of the
interpreter/vm but would it be possible to implement exec or eval with
an optional argument, that argument would be a maximum number of byte
codes the interpreter would execute before throwing an exception.

this would eliminate the out of control case where a function  runs
the above code and never returns.  you could make the value large
enough to handle just about everything except for infinite loops.

something like:

          try:
                exec(codeToExecute, maxTicks = 100000)
          except InterpreterLimitReached:
                print "your code ran too long"

Anyone have any idea if this is at all implementable?

jbore



From cookedm+news at physics.mcmaster.ca  Thu Apr  8 16:07:37 2004
From: cookedm+news at physics.mcmaster.ca (David M. Cooke)
Date: Thu, 08 Apr 2004 16:07:37 -0400
Subject: surface fitting library for Python?
References: <40748902$0$17253$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
Message-ID: <qnkfzbe1bee.fsf@arbutus.physics.mcmaster.ca>

At some point, Grant Edwards <grante at visi.com> wrote:

> I'm looking for a surface fitting library for Python. 
>
> Something like the least-squares module in scientific python,
> except I want to fit a surface (z = f(x,y)) instead of a curve
> (y = f(x)).

You mean Konrad Hinsen's ScientificPython?
Scientific.Functions.LeastSquares.leastSquaresFit should still work
for you. You just need to make your data a list of tuples of (x,y) and z.

Example:

from Scientific.Functions.LeastSquares import leastSquaresFit

data = [ ((x1,y1), z1), ((x2,y2), z2), ...]

parameters = [initialc0, initialc1, initialc2]
def model(params, xy):
    c0, c1, c2 = params
    x, y = xy
    return c0*x + c1*sin(c2*y)

params, chisquared = leastSquaresFit(model, parameters, data)

If your model isn't amiable to having derivatives taken, you might
check out the wrapping by Robert Kern of ODRPACK:
http://starship.python.net/crew/kernr/Projects.html
I've used this successfully.

-- 
|>|\/|<
/--------------------------------------------------------------------------\
|David M. Cooke
|cookedm(at)physics(dot)mcmaster(dot)ca


From grey at despair.dmiyu.org  Mon Apr 26 16:22:26 2004
From: grey at despair.dmiyu.org (Steve Lamb)
Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2004 20:22:26 GMT
Subject: How's ruby compare to it older brother python
References: <c6ich0$c5mee$1@ID-205437.news.uni-berlin.de>
	<108pvmgl0h7m3ea@news.supernews.com> <c6jg7404m@enews4.newsguy.com>
Message-ID: <slrnc8qru4.frh.grey@dmiyu.org>

On 2004-04-26, Phil Tomson <ptkwt at aracnet.com> wrote:
> Well, there is one big difference syntactically: Python uses indentation 
> as syntax and Ruby doesn't.  Personally I don't prefer Python's 
> 'indentation-as-syntax' since it means that syntactically significant 
> pieces of my code are invisible and if the tab settings in my editor are 
> not the same as yours it can make it difficult to share code (or even 

    Why is this trotted out every time?  I guarentee that my code will look
perfectly fine in your editor.  I cannot guarentee the reverse as while you
might have a penchant for tabs I do not.  I am not alone in that regard.
Here's a snippet from the Python style guide:

Tabs or Spaces?
Never mix tabs and spaces. The most popular way of indenting Python is with
spaces only. The second-most popular way is with tabs only. Code indented with
a mixture of tabs and spaces should be converted to using spaces exclusively.
(In Emacs, select the whole buffer and hit ESC-x untabify.) When invoking the
python command line interpreter with the -t option, it issues warnings about
code that illegally mixes tabs and spaces. When using -tt these warnings
become errors. These options are highly recommended!

    So unless your tab setting is 0 syntactically significant pieces of code
should always have a different indention level.  Furthermore if the
program(mers) follow the style guide then that is a non-issue.

-- 
         Steve C. Lamb         | I'm your priest, I'm your shrink, I'm your
       PGP Key: 8B6E99C5       | main connection to the switchboard of souls.
-------------------------------+---------------------------------------------


From solution88pro at hotmail.com  Mon Apr  5 21:48:06 2004
From: solution88pro at hotmail.com (88Pro)
Date: 5 Apr 2004 18:48:06 -0700
Subject: Can someone give me a short explanation?
References: <mailman.353.1081154081.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<c4r8vb$rrj$1@news1.wdf.sap-ag.de>
Message-ID: <98cb6fab.0404051748.465489da@posting.google.com>

Thanks all of you explained me. Now I understand more clearly than every before.

Regards
Senthoor

"Daniel Dittmar" <daniel.dittmar at sap.com> wrote in message news:<c4r8vb$rrj$1 at news1.wdf.sap-ag.de>...
> Senthoorkumaran Punniamoorthy wrote:
> > I found this code in the book text processing with Python. But having
> > little difficulty understanding how exactly it works and what should
> > be passed as argument? Can someone decode this for me please?
> >
> > apply_each = lambda fns, args=[]: map(apply, fns, [args]*len(fns))
> 
> def apply_each (fns, args = []):
>     return map (apply, fns, [args]*len(fns))
> 
> map(...)
>     map(function, sequence[, sequence, ...]) -> list
> 
>     Return a list of the results of applying the function to the items of
>     the argument sequence(s).  If more than one sequence is given, the
>     function is called with an argument list consisting of the corresponding
>     item of each sequence, substituting None for missing values when not all
>     sequences have the same length.  If the function is None, return a list
> of
>     the items of the sequence (or a list of tuples if more than one
> sequence).
> 
> so apply_each ([func1, func2, func3], [arg1, arg2])
> is the same as
> [func1 (arg1, arg2), func2 (arg1, arg2), func3 (arg1, arg)]
> 
> or using list comprehension
> [func (arg1, arg2) for func in [func1, func2, func3])
> 
> Daniel


From grante at visi.com  Wed Apr 28 00:17:37 2004
From: grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards)
Date: 28 Apr 2004 04:17:37 GMT
Subject: Don't understand wxPython ids
References: <408ed938$0$17263$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
	<BOEjc.12559$eZ5.4366@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <408f3061$0$17258$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>

In article <BOEjc.12559$eZ5.4366 at newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>, Greg Krohn wrote:

> AFAIK, yes. But then again, I don't know much. Note that you can use -1 
> as the id and the button will create it's own unique id for you. Then 
> all you have to do is call button.GetId() whenever you need it.

Ya know, now that you mention it, I think I actually new that
once a couple years back.

>> Can somebody clue me in on the advantages of the
>> progrmmer-generated integer id numbers for objects?
> 
> In the new wxPython (2.5.1.5) there's an easier way to bind events 
> without using ids at all using widget.Bind, like this:
>
> import wx
> 
> class MyFrame(wx.Frame):
>      def __init__(self, *args, **kwargs):
>          wx.Frame.__init__(self, *args, **kwargs)
> 
>          self.button = wx.Button(self, -1, "What's my id?")
>          self.button.Bind(wx.EVT_BUTTON, self.OnButtonPress)

That's definitely getting closer to what I would expect in
something designed in the last 15-20 years, though passing the
binding as a parameter to wx.Button() sure seems like the
obvious solution for 90% of the cases I run into. Perhaps I'm
too used to Tk.

> I can only think of one reasn why they chose to use ids in the first 
> place. Assigning many objects the same id allows you to use one EVT_* 
> call for those objects. But is that really a useful feature? Who knows?

That's about the only thing I could think of. The few
situations where I'd have wanted to do someting like that I'd
gladly put a for-loop iterating over a list of objects in
exchange for being able to use single-line of code the other
90% of the time.

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow!  I'm young... I'm
                                  at               HEALTHY... I can HIKE
                               visi.com            THRU CAPT GROGAN'S LUMBAR
                                                   REGIONS!


From jjl at pobox.com  Thu Apr 29 16:30:33 2004
From: jjl at pobox.com (John J. Lee)
Date: 29 Apr 2004 21:30:33 +0100
Subject: 404 errors
References: <408dcc25$0$16577$5a62ac22@freenews.iinet.net.au>
	<pan.2004.04.27.08.46.46.977704@o2.pl.bez.tego>
	<pan.2004.04.29.07.03.54.528586@myrealbox.com>
Message-ID: <87fzam5xxy.fsf@pobox.com>

Ivan Karajas <my_full_name_concatenated at myrealbox.com> writes:

> On Tue, 27 Apr 2004 10:46:47 +0200, Tut wrote:
> 
> > Tue, 27 Apr 2004 11:00:57 +0800, Derek Fountain wrote:
> > 
> >> Some servers respond with a nicely formatted bit of HTML explaining the
> >> problem, which is fine for a human, but not for a script. Is there some
> >> flag or something definitive on the response which says "this is a 404
> >> error"?
> > 
> > Maybe catch the urllib2.HTTPError?
> 
> This kind of answers the question. urllib will let you read whatever it
> receives, regardless of the HTTP status; you need to use urllib2 if you
> want to find out the status code when a request results in an error (any
> HTTP status beginning with a 4 or 5). This can be done like so:

FWIW, note that urllib2's own idea of an error (ie. something for
which it throws a response object as an HTTPError exception rather
than returning it) is: 'anything other than 200 is an error'.  The
only exceptions are where some responses happen to be handled by
urllib2 handlers (eg. 302), or at a lower level by httplib (eg. 100).


> import urllib2
> try:
>     asock = urllib2.urlopen("http://www.foo.com/qwerty.html")
> except urllib2.HTTPError, e:
>     print e.code
> 
> The value in urllib2.HTTPError.code comes from the first line of the web
> server's HTTP response, just before the headers begin, e.g. "HTTP/1.1 200
> OK", or "HTTP/1.1 404 Not Found".
> 
> One thing you need to be aware of is that some web sites don't behave as
> you would expect them to; e.g. responding with a redirection rather than a
> 404 error when you when you request a page that doesn't exist. In these
> cases you might still have to rely on some clever scripting.

The following kind of functionality is in urllib2 in Python 2.4 (there
are some loose ends, which I will tie up soon).  It's slightly simpler
in 2.4 than in my ClientCookie clone of that module, but (UNTESTED):

import ClientCookie
from ClientCookie._Util import response_seek_wrapper

class BadResponseProcessor(ClientCookie.BaseProcessor):
    # Convert apparently-successful 200 OK or 30x redirection responses to 404s
    # iff they contain tell-tale text that indicates failure.

    def __init__(self, diagnostic_text):
        self.diagnostic_text = diagnostic_text

    def http_response(self, request, response):
        if not hasattr(response, "seek"):
            response = response_seek_wrapper(response)

        if response.code in [200, 301, 302, 303, 307]:
            ct = response.info().getheaders("content-type")
            if ct and ct[0].startswith("text/html"):
                try:
                    data = response.read(4096)
                    if self.diagnostic_text in data:
                        response.code = 404
                finally:
                    response.seek(0)
        return response

    https_response = http_response

brp = BadResponseProcessor("Whoops, an error occurred.")
opener = ClientCookie.build_opener(brp)

r = opener.open("http://nonstandard.com/bad/url")
assert r.code == 404


Hmm, looking at that, I suppose it would be better done *after*
redirection (which is quite possible, with the modifications I've
made, without needing any heavy subclassing or other hacks -- use the
processor_order attribute).  You'd then just check for 200 rather than
200 or 30x in the code above.

A similar problem: as I mention above, by default, urllib2 only
returns 200 responses, and always raises an exception for other HTTP
response codes.  Occasionally, it's much more convenient to have an
OpenerDirector that behaves differently:

class HTTPErrorProcessor(ClientCookie.HTTPErrorProcessor):
    # return most error responses rather than raising an exception

    def http_response(self, request, response):
        code, msg, hdrs = response.code, response.msg, response.info()

        category = divmod(code, 100)[0]  # eg. 200 --> 2
        if category not in [2, 4, 5] or code in [401, 407]:
            response = self.parent.error(
                'http', request, response, code, msg, hdrs)

        return response

    https_response = http_response


John


From python at simon.vc  Fri Apr  9 06:54:46 2004
From: python at simon.vc (SimonVC)
Date: 9 Apr 2004 03:54:46 -0700
Subject: getattr() in default namespace.
References: <fa156589.0404080247.6557408e@posting.google.com>
	<60dfb6f6.0404081110.5218466b@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <fa156589.0404090254.62a4d41c@posting.google.com>

That worked nicely. Cheers Carl. (and everyone else who replied.)


>  >>> a = 1
>  >>> namespace = __import__(__name__)
>  >>> getattr(namespace,'a')
>  1


From premshree_python at yahoo.co.in  Fri Apr  2 14:32:00 2004
From: premshree_python at yahoo.co.in (=?iso-8859-1?q?Premshree=20Pillai?=)
Date: Fri, 2 Apr 2004 20:32:00 +0100 (BST)
Subject: makeExe.bat - An explanation
Message-ID: <20040402193200.3055.qmail@web8312.mail.in.yahoo.com>

Hello,

An explanation of makeExe.bat
(http://premshree.resource-locator.com/j/post.php?id=152)
has been appended to
(http://www.devx.com/opensource/Article/20247/0/page/3)
"Create Python Executables Automatically"
(http://www.devx.com/opensource/Article/20247/).

-Premshree Pillai

=====
-Premshree
[http://www.qiksearch.com/]

________________________________________________________________________
Yahoo! India Insurance Special: Be informed on the best policies, services, tools and more. 
Go to: http://in.insurance.yahoo.com/licspecial/index.html



From peter at engcorp.com  Tue Apr 27 14:40:57 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2004 14:40:57 -0400
Subject: Is Perl *that* good?
In-Reply-To: <108t1tlhnhi46ee@corp.supernews.com>
References: <mailman.44.1083079272.25742.python-list@python.org>
	<108t1tlhnhi46ee@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <FoCdnQYuQaakNBPdRVn-vA@powergate.ca>

Michael Geary wrote:

> Robert Brewer wrote:
> 
>>I wish Python had won, as well. But time is linear (in
>>my mind). I now wish only that we could leverage the
>>similarity of JS and Python (execution and binding
>>models) into more Python users. Marketing needs
>>to run with the line, "So you know Javascript? Then
>>you know Python!"
> 
> That was my impression of Python when I started using it after some
> extensive JavaScript work: "Cool! It's just like JavaScript but with a lot
> more goodies!" The two languages struck me as very similar. Even though
> JavaScript *looks* like C, it *works* much more like Python.

I learned Javascript after learning Python. (That is, up until that
point, I coded Javascript like a script kiddie, copying and tweaking
without understanding.)  It was the similarities with Python that
actually let me start to respect it somewhat.  I thought "Cool!  It's
just like Python but with less power and an uglier syntax!"  :-)

-Peter


From hwlgw at hotmail.com  Tue Apr 20 04:38:36 2004
From: hwlgw at hotmail.com (Will Stuyvesant)
Date: 20 Apr 2004 01:38:36 -0700
Subject: AOP use cases
References: <84fc4588.0404140106.3fa0c55@posting.google.com>
	<slrnc7q1ss.1aa.alf@largo.fayauffre.org>
	<cb035744.0404141130.170f51c4@posting.google.com>
	<slrnc7sgat.vp.alf@largo.fayauffre.org>
	<cb035744.0404160442.2f0b1661@posting.google.com>
	<0pydnSB4WYuieuLdRVn-hQ@powergate.ca>
	<1082n594lndh27f@news.supernews.com> <87pta6qnw4.fsf@pobox.com>
	<1083nja30c9s2a4@news.supernews.com>
	<c5ul9s$rpf$1@news.eusc.inter.net>
	<1087i9rgum1g2cb@news.supernews.com>
	<c60qpa$bhr$1@news1.wdf.sap-ag.de>
Message-ID: <cb035744.0404200038.10a9eb7b@posting.google.com>

> [Daniel Dittmar]
> class SynchronizedCall:
>     def __init__ (self, lock, method):
>         self.lock = lock
>         self.method = method
> 
>     def __call__ (self, *args, **keywargs):
>         self.lock.acquire ()
>         try:
>             self.method (*args, *keywargs)
>         finally:
>             self.lock.release ()
> 
> obj.append = SynchronizedCall (obj.lock, obj.append)
> # the following calls to obj.append () will be synchronized

That is a nice example.  People (Peter Hansen, me, ...) asked earlier
in this and the previous thread for AOP usage examples/patterns/...
and this is one.

The academic AOP examples I saw could not convince me, but perhaps
somebody who uses AOP-like techniques a lot in practice (not me) can
collect such code examples like the above for something like a Python
aop-module?  I think that would be interesting and possibly highly
useful.

the-size-of-the-python-aop-module-would-convert-more-java-peeps-ly
y'rs  - will


From reverse.ku.oc.issolok at nothypgnal.delrest.co.uk  Tue Apr 27 09:00:17 2004
From: reverse.ku.oc.issolok at nothypgnal.delrest.co.uk (Paul Sweeney)
Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2004 13:00:17 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: sending an object - twisted or what?
Message-ID: <c6llh1$1k8$1@sparta.btinternet.com>

I wish to send an object (only one class, but many objects)
from python running on one computer to python on another.
It will be over the internet, so needs to be 'secure'.

Is twisted the only way to go, or is there something
simpler for my app?  The code for twisted is fairly simple (I found
http://twistedmatrix.com/documents/current/howto/pb-copyable)
but the library is a bit heavy and I don't want to go through the
hassle of dependencies/compiling etc if there's a simpler way.

thx in advance

Paul




From miki.tebeka at zoran.com  Sun Apr 18 04:43:18 2004
From: miki.tebeka at zoran.com (Miki Tebeka)
Date: Sun, 18 Apr 2004 10:43:18 +0200
Subject: Catching console output interactively
In-Reply-To: <mailman.688.1082120189.20120.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.688.1082120189.20120.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <40823FA6.2040502@zoran.com>

Hello Rob,

> I'd like to be able to trap console output as the user writes interactively.
> For example if the user press the up or down keys I'd like to be able to
> catch this and return the last executed command (a bit like the bash_history
> idea). Can anyone point me in the right direction?
Depending on what you'd like to do you can try:
"curses" module (available only on unix like systems)
wxPython
PyGame

HTH.
Miki



From stuff at allthingswriting.com  Wed Apr 14 15:38:27 2004
From: stuff at allthingswriting.com (Zanke)
Date: 14 Apr 2004 12:38:27 -0700
Subject: Very Interesting Project for Python Person
Message-ID: <854e9e55.0404141138.416c9ab1@posting.google.com>

This is part of an open source project at SourceForge.  The Python
program would have to call some methods that were compiled from C
source code.

We need someone to add 2D graphics & GUI to an existing C program. The
main program, graphics, & GUI would be python/tKinter.  The graphics
would show the path of a virtual sailboat, which has a robot at the
helm. The robot is actually an Artificial Neural Network (ANN). We use
neuroevolution to discover a competent ANN yachtsman.

Visit http://annevolve.sourceforge.net to learn more; especially the
sourceforge link.

Mitchell Timin


From adalke at mindspring.com  Thu Apr  1 10:48:16 2004
From: adalke at mindspring.com (Andrew Dalke)
Date: Thu, 01 Apr 2004 15:48:16 GMT
Subject: From python-dev, space vs. tab controversy finally settled
References: <BrPac.5729$xw6.2105@fe1.columbus.rr.com>
	<c4ggrj$ri6$1@news.service.uci.edu>
Message-ID: <4RWac.11136$lt2.2060@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>

Josiah Carlson:
> Great april fools joke, but no such conversation has gone on in
> Python-Dev in the last 3 months.

You're right, there was a typo.  It should have been python-internals.
That started last fall because there was too much noise and riff-raff
on python-dev.

                    Andrew
                    dalke at dalkescientific.com




From nemesis at nowhere.invalid  Sun Apr 25 11:14:06 2004
From: nemesis at nowhere.invalid (Nemesis)
Date: Sun, 25 Apr 2004 15:14:06 GMT
Subject: [ANN] XPN 0.2.6
References: <7kbd6c.fu1.ln@nemesis.homeinvalid>
	<luidndEPdYphPhfdRVn-tA@centurytel.net>
Message-ID: <13jg6c.pv1.ln@nemesis.homeinvalid>

Mentre io pensavo ad una intro simpatica "Ed Suominen" scriveva:

>> XPN is a newsreader written in Python+GTK with unicode support.
> I was very impressed by this application. It's a great testimony to the
> power of Python.

Thank you very much. :-)
Python is a GREAT tool.

-- 
Im not as think as you drunk i am.

 |\ |       |HomePage   : http://nem01.altervista.org
 | \|emesis |XPN (my nr): http://xpn.altervista.org



From "schwartz+ at usenet " at bio.cse.psu.edu  Tue Apr 13 23:22:06 2004
From: "schwartz+ at usenet " at bio.cse.psu.edu (Scott Schwartz)
Date: 13 Apr 2004 23:22:06 -0400
Subject: print u"\u0432": why is this so hard? UnciodeEncodeError
References: <cpa4qrvb529.fsf@cabernet.nelson.monkey.org>
	<c52lu9$j8c$03$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <8gbrlvz1k1.fsf@galapagos.bx.psu.edu>

=?ISO-8859-1?Q?=22Martin_v=2E_L=F6wis=22?= <martin at v.loewis.de> writes:
> > Why is Python not respecting my locale?
> 
> It is: however, your locale only tells Python the encoding of your
> terminal, not the encoding of an arbitrary file you may write to.

That's not the usual interpretation of locale.  It's not about
terminals, it's about everything, especially files.



From adwser at hotmail.com  Wed Apr 28 10:42:25 2004
From: adwser at hotmail.com (jtd)
Date: 28 Apr 2004 07:42:25 -0700
Subject: Non-blocking connect BLOCKS
References: <c57c103.0404270854.48c2f8be@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.50.1083086460.25742.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <c57c103.0404280642.7cb96ce4@posting.google.com>

"Dave Brueck" <dave at pythonapocrypha.com> wrote in message news:<mailman.50.1083086460.25742.python-list at python.org>...
> > I'm using asyncore to download a large list of web pages, and I've
> > noticed dispatcher.connect blocks for some hosts. I was under the
> > impression that non-blocking sockets do not block on connects, in
> > addition to reads and writes. My connect code is essentially the same
> > as the asyncore example:
> >
> > http://docs.python.org/lib/asyncore-example.html
> >
> > It seems unlikely that I am the first to encounter this problem, can
> > someone explain what's wrong and suggest a remedy?
> 
> Most likely the connect call is doing a DNS lookup, which means your execution
> pauses while some other (non-Python) code goes and talks to the DNS server. 

Thank you, that was exactly the problem. Instead of messing around
with DNS lookup protocols, I rewrote the program using threads. Now
the lookups take O(1) rather than O(number of threads/user threads)
time :)


From apocalypznow at yahoo.com  Wed Apr  7 04:16:46 2004
From: apocalypznow at yahoo.com (jason willows)
Date: Wed, 07 Apr 2004 08:16:46 GMT
Subject: test
Message-ID: <ONOcc.42653$Ig.32402@pd7tw2no>

this is a test.



From jcarlson at uci.edu  Sat Apr  3 17:07:42 2004
From: jcarlson at uci.edu (Josiah Carlson)
Date: Sat, 03 Apr 2004 14:07:42 -0800
Subject: recursive file editing
In-Reply-To: <pan.2004.04.03.20.25.28.565809@interfree.it>
References: <pan.2004.04.03.20.25.28.565809@interfree.it>
Message-ID: <c4ncpk$pp3$2@news.service.uci.edu>

> I'm a python newbie; here are a few questions relative to a
> problem I'm trying to solve; I'm wandering if python is the best
> instrument or if awk or a mix of bash and sed would be better:
> 
> 1) how would I get recursively descend
> through all files in all subdirectories of 
> the one in which my script is called ?

Check out os.path.walk.


> 2) each file examined should be edited; IF a string of this type is found
> 
> foo.asp=dev?bar (where bar can be a digit or an empty space)
> 
> it should always be substituted with this string
> 
> foo-bar.html (if bar is an empty space the new string is foo-.html)

Check out the re module.


> 3) the names of files read may themselves be of the sort foo.asp=dev?bar;
> the edited output file should also be renamed according to the same rule
> as above ... or would this be better handled by a bash script ?

Do it however you feel more comfortable, Python can do it.


  - Josiah


From tjreedy at udel.edu  Thu Apr  8 09:51:08 2004
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Thu, 8 Apr 2004 09:51:08 -0400
Subject: list comprehensions
References: <yjZcc.42823$Pk3.9547@pd7tw1no><mailman.434.1081374131.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<i56dc.46224$Pk3.1562@pd7tw1no>
Message-ID: <c53lc9$e0v$1@sea.gmane.org>


"Elaine Jackson" <elainejackson7355 at home.com> wrote in message
news:i56dc.46224$Pk3.1562 at pd7tw1no...
> But I stand by my complaint about unintuitiveness,

Which I already agreed with, which I why I said, "Don't try to intuit!";-)

> because I've discovered that you get an error from
>
> x = [(i,j) for i in range(7-j) for j in range(3)]

because the i loop is outside/before the j loop.  The problem with trying
to intuit is that list comps move the appended expression from inside to
outtermost while otherwise leaving the order outside-in.  You were
expecting the order to be uniformly reversed, and it is not.  If the syntax
had specified the above to be written as

[for i in range(7-j): for j in range(3): (i,j)]

which more obviously abbreviates the corresponding statements, the error
would be more obvious.  Moving the expression to the front was, of course,
intentional -- to make it stand out more -- but I can be somewhat confusing
at first until one gets used to it.

 > while
>
> y = [[(i,j) for i in range(7-j)] for j in range(3)]
>
> works fine.

because now the i-loop, as part of the appended expression, gets executed
inside the j loop.

y=[]
for j in range(3):
  y.append([(i,j) for i in range(7-j)])

Terry J. Reedy






From __peter__ at web.de  Tue Apr 27 05:53:14 2004
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2004 11:53:14 +0200
Subject: Default Argument Inconsistency?
References: <c6l8sr$5sm$2@titan.btinternet.com>
Message-ID: <c6laib$nra$05$1@news.t-online.com>

Paul Sweeney wrote:

> The python tutorial gives the following example to demonstrate the fact
> that default args are only evaluated once:
> 
> def f(a,L=[]):
>     L.append(a)
>     return L
> 
> print f(1),f(2),f(3)
> [1] [1,2] [1,2,3]
> 
> now I'm confident I understand this, but I do not understand how changing
> to the following (whatever the merits of so doing, it was an accidental
> typo)
> results in the output displayed:
> 
> def f(a,L=[]):
>     if not L: L=[]

The first thing in f() is to check if L evaluates to False, i. e. is empty.
If L is empty the L "the object" is left alone, but L "the identifier" is
bound to a new empty list. So

>     L.append(a)

will never operate on the empty list that was provided as default parameter.

>     return L
> 
>>>> print f(1),f(2),f(3)
> [1] [2] [3]
> 
> surely on second entry to f, L == [1], so the "if not L:" should not
> fire?!

While the above works, there is one pitfall that will sooner or later bite
you:

>>> def f(a, L=[]):
...     if not L: L = []
...     L.append(a)
...     return L
...
>>> l1 = ["old"]
>>> f("new", l1)
['old', 'new']
>>> l1
['old', 'new']
>>> l2 = []
>>> f("new", l2)
['new']
>>> l2
[]
>>>

Did you predict the values of l1 and l2 correctly? Congratulations.

I recommend that you adopt the common practice and initialize mutable
parameters with None as the default, which gives you consistent behaviour:

>>> def f(a, L=None):
...     if L is None: L = []
...     L.append(a)
...     return L
...
>>> l1 = ["old"]
>>> f("new", l1)
['old', 'new']
>>> l1
['old', 'new']
>>> l2 = []
>>> f("new", l2)
['new']
>>> l2
['new']
>>>

Peter


From skchim0 at engr.uky.edu  Thu Apr  8 10:28:52 2004
From: skchim0 at engr.uky.edu (Satish Chimakurthi)
Date: Thu, 8 Apr 2004 10:28:52 -0400
Subject: Embedding python in ANSYS: Anyone tried it?
References: <ECHMHHNOPOPGGLAA@mailcity.com>
Message-ID: <007401c41d75$d112dcf0$559ea380@D4XN6B41>

Hi Anand,

I am interested to know the details of your Python-FE coupling application.
Would you please let me know ?


Thanks

Regards,
Satish

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "anand k Rayudu" <ashiyana at lycos.com>
To: <hoel at gl-group.com>
Cc: <python-list at python.org>
Sent: Thursday, April 08, 2004 9:54 AM
Subject: Re: Embedding python in ANSYS: Anyone tried it?


> Hi Berthold,
>
>    You can embed python into any application very easily.
>    Also you have to extend python to understand your applications APIs and
objects.
>    There are so many tools [Eg: SWIG, Boost ]  to do this.
>
>    Also python allows you to have 2 way communication between c/c++ &
python,
>    using that you can have   call back mechanism,
>    By embedding  your application will have rich set of utilities. [
Remember python has very big list of modules ]
>    To deploy your application you need not have to have python as pre
installed at your customer location.
>    You may supply python with your application. [ Some thing similar to
JRE for JAVA]
>
>    I hope this information  helps you.
>    Recently I embedded python into one  FE application,
>    if you want to know some specific details I can try to help you out.
>    Please let me know.
>
> Best Wishes,
>
> Anand
>
>
>
>
> ____________________________________________________________
> Find what you are looking for with the Lycos Yellow Pages
>
http://r.lycos.com/r/yp_emailfooter/http://yellowpages.lycos.com/default.asp?SRC=lycos10
>
> -- 
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list




From hungjunglu at yahoo.com  Sun Apr 18 12:23:33 2004
From: hungjunglu at yahoo.com (Hung Jung Lu)
Date: 18 Apr 2004 09:23:33 -0700
Subject: module not callable - why not?
References: <c56jph$rrk$05$1@news.t-online.com>
	<107dras2heahcb6@news.supernews.com>
	<mailman.491.1081538569.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<8ef9bea6.0404122025.36efc84e@posting.google.com>
	<c5tef0$5hf$1@news.service.uci.edu>
	<7xsmf1fxd9.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <8ef9bea6.0404180823.7a3bc189@posting.google.com>

Paul Rubin <http://phr.cx at NOSPAM.invalid> wrote in message news:<7xsmf1fxd9.fsf at ruckus.brouhaha.com>...
> Josiah Carlson <jcarlson at uci.edu> writes:
> > I think of modules as a namespace.  Why?  Because that is what they
> > are. They contain a space of names, some of which may be useful to
> > you, otherwise you wouldn't have imported the module.
> 
> Is a class instance not also a namespace?  After all, it contains a
> space of names, some of which you must have wanted or else you
> wouldn't have instantiated it.
> 
> And yet, you can call a class instance if it has a __call__ operation
> defined.  I don't see why modules shouldn't be the same.

Exactly. Another thing people have complained about is the lack of
getters/setters for module properties. For classes, you can have
properties. For modules, you can't.

Look, here is a partial list of the symptoms of the illness of using
class-and-module-based OOP:

(a) You need metaclasses. You have special syntax for usage of
metaclasses: you need to use the __metaclass__ name tag, in specific
places.

(b) Singletons become a "design pattern", since classes usually cannot
be used as instances directly.

(c) You have to create staticmethod and/or classmethod to make a class
functional.

(d) Modules can't have properties, nor are callable.

(e) You often need to create three objects: module, class, instance,
to do the job of one single object. Hence you often see usage of the
same name for all three of them, weird as it may seem.

(f) Module inheritance ('import' for containment, 'from ... import'
for inheritance) differs in syntax with class inheritance ('class
A(B):')

(g) Module functions and class methods become two distinct types of
objects.

In prototype-based OOP, you don't have any of these problems. You can
see that the usage of modules and classes introduces a whole lot of
repeated/redundant concepts and/or inconsistencies. That's the price
you pay. It's just an unfortunate historical development that lead us
to where we are today.

regards,

Hung Jung


From segphault at sbcglobal.net  Sat Apr 10 13:00:47 2004
From: segphault at sbcglobal.net (Ryan Paul)
Date: Sat, 10 Apr 2004 10:00:47 -0700
Subject: Changing the default string object used by the interpreter
Message-ID: <1081616447.15063.92.camel@atrus>



> I'm wondering if anyone can suggest a way, short of directly hacking
> the
> python interpreter, to change the default str class to a different
> one. 
>   ie. So that every time a str instance is created, it uses *my* class
> instead of the built-in python string.  Is there anything hidden away 
> that can be overloaded that might make this possible to do?

I would also like to be able to overwrite built-in classes, and alter
them at run time, but Guido clearly doesnt like the idea. If you want to
do it, you will have to modify the interpreter to allow it. If you end
up doing that, I'd love to see how. FYI, this is what Guido says about
it:

"For the curious: there are two reasons why changing built-in classes is
disallowed. First, it would be too easy to break an invariant of a
built-in type that is relied upon elsewhere, either by the standard
library, or by the run-time code. Second, when Python is embedded in
another application that creates multiple Python interpreters, the
built-in class objects (being statically allocated data structures) are
shared between all interpreters; thus, code running in one interpreter
might wreak havoc on another interpreter, which is a no-no."
(from http://python.org/2.2/descrintro.html)




From R.E.Jones at kent.ac.uk  Thu Apr 29 12:02:13 2004
From: R.E.Jones at kent.ac.uk (Richard Jones)
Date: 29 Apr 2004 12:02:13 -0400
Subject: Summer School on Garbage Collection & Memory Management
Message-ID: <04-04-096@comp.compilers>

		Garbage Collection & Memory Management
			    Summer School
		    20-21 July 2004, Canterbury, UK

The performance of today's memory-hungry applications depends on
efficient dynamic memory management, whether managed explicitly through
new/delete or automatically by a garbage collector. With the increasing
use of managed code, whether Java Virtual Machines or Microsoft's
Common Language Runtime, the economic importance of automatic memory
management has never been greater.

The Summer Schoool provides participants with an opportunity to hear
leading practitioners from both industry and universities. The school
is directed at postgraduate research students, academics who wish to
get involved in this field and industrial researchers and developers
who want to apply state of the art memory management techniques to real
problems. The presenters include

	David Bacon (IBM TJ Watson Research Center),
	Emery Berger (U. Massachusetts),
	Robert Berry (IBM Hursley),
	Hans Boehm (HP),
	Dave Detlefs (Sun Microsystems),
	Rick Hudson (Intel),
	Richard Jones (U. Kent, Canterbury),
	Eliot Moss (U. Massachusetts).

The registration fee for the 2 day Summer School is 130 GBP (free of
VAT) and includes all workshop materials, lunches and refreshments,
and the Summer School Dinner on 20th July. Bed and breakfast
accommodation is also available in en-suite accommodation on campus
at a rate of 30 GBP per night.

For more details, see
	http://www.mm-net.org.uk/school/
or mail school at mm-net.org.uk

The Summer School is organised by the UK Memory Management Network
(http://www.mm-net.org.uk). We are grrateful for the kind support of
the Engineering and Physical Sciences Research Council
(http://www.epsrc.ac.uk).
--
Richard Jones



From irmen at -nospam-remove-this-xs4all.nl  Fri Apr 30 09:51:40 2004
From: irmen at -nospam-remove-this-xs4all.nl (Irmen de Jong)
Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2004 15:51:40 +0200
Subject: Tkinter: focus/text selection problem with tkFileDialog
Message-ID: <409259ed$0$574$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>

Hi,
I'm having trouble with the code below.
It's just a regular Tk text widget in which you can type and
select text as expected, however the call to tkFileDialog.askopenfilename()
seems to screw things up. After the file dialog, I can no longer use
the Text widget (typing, selecting, it doesn't work anymore!)
What am I doing wrong?

TIA,
--Irmen de Jong


-----test.py----
import Tkinter, tkFileDialog

window=Tkinter.Tk()
txt=Tkinter.Text(window)
txt.insert(Tkinter.END,"Choose a file, then try to select me")
txt.pack()

name=tkFileDialog.askopenfilename()
txt.insert(Tkinter.END,"\nFile chosen: "+name)
window.mainloop()


From mcfletch at rogers.com  Mon Apr 26 13:04:43 2004
From: mcfletch at rogers.com (Mike C. Fletcher)
Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2004 13:04:43 -0400
Subject: Zip with sequences of diffrent length
In-Reply-To: <c6jelh$13e6$1@f1node01.rhrz.uni-bonn.de>
References: <c6jelh$13e6$1@f1node01.rhrz.uni-bonn.de>
Message-ID: <408D412B.7090901@rogers.com>

Use map( None, l, l[1:] )

HTH,
Mike

Nickolay Kolev wrote:
...

> Wanted tuples:
>
> (1, 2)
> (2, 3)
> (3, None)
>
> I can get the first two tuples using zip(l, l[1:]). How do I get the 
> last one?

...
_______________________________________
  Mike C. Fletcher
  Designer, VR Plumber, Coder
  http://members.rogers.com/mcfletch/





From dontbotherworld at yahoo.com  Fri Apr 30 06:35:51 2004
From: dontbotherworld at yahoo.com (dont bother)
Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2004 03:35:51 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Where to put the HTMLgen files
Message-ID: <20040430103551.66564.qmail@web60803.mail.yahoo.com>

Hi,
I have downloaded the HTMLgen for generating web pages
with python. However I untared and unzipped it. I
tried to link it with my path like this:

Heres my .bashrc file
--------------------------------------

GAIM=/usr/bin/
YAHOO=/usr/bin/
PYTHON=/usr/bin
HTMLgenPYTHON=/usr/local/HTMLgen
PATH=$PATH:$GAIM/gaim:$YAHOO/ymessenger:$PYTHON/python:$HTMLgenPYTHON
                                                      
                         
export PATH GAIM YAHOO PYTHON HTMLgenPYTHON
                                                      
                         
---------------------------------------

It does not work. When I write a python program and
include :

import HTMLgen 

it does not finds this module. Can anyone tell me
where should I place this HTMLgen directory? and how
to make it work?

Thanks
Dont



	
		
__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! HotJobs  
http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/careermakeover 



From irmen at -nospam-remove-this-xs4all.nl  Wed Apr 28 14:00:42 2004
From: irmen at -nospam-remove-this-xs4all.nl (Irmen de Jong)
Date: Wed, 28 Apr 2004 20:00:42 +0200
Subject: sending an object - twisted or what?
In-Reply-To: <c6oiui$huh$1@sparta.btinternet.com>
References: <c6llh1$1k8$1@sparta.btinternet.com>
	<20040427152051.50234c65.mutah@NOSPAM-libertysurf.fr>
	<c6nr1j$g8$1@hercules.btinternet.com>
	<ucj4m1-5a5.ln1@snout.lairds.org>
	<c6oiui$huh$1@sparta.btinternet.com>
Message-ID: <408ff14b$0$571$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>

Paul Sweeney wrote:

> It's quite likely this is going the way of xml-rpc over ssh.

I'm sorry I forgot to mention in my other reply, that Pyro
supports SSL by itself (using the m2crypto module). No SSH
needed to set up a secure shell session.

--Irmen de JOng


From tkpmep at hotmail.com  Thu Apr 29 10:39:53 2004
From: tkpmep at hotmail.com (Thomas Philips)
Date: 29 Apr 2004 07:39:53 -0700
Subject: Subclasses in Python
References: <b4a8ffb6.0404221855.7239bb82@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.945.1082708460.20120.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <b4a8ffb6.0404290639.635aeca5@posting.google.com>

I followed Shalabh's suggestion and rewrote Alien as a subclass of
Player, and used self.__Class__.<whatever I need to access> to access
the class attributes in the class and subclass. Works like a charm,
but I'm having some difficulty printing class names. I want
self.__class__ to return just the name of the class without some
ancillary stuff thrown in. A snippet of code follows:

class Player(object):
    #Class attributes for class Player
    threshold = 50
    initial_strength=100
    n=0

    #Private methods for class Player
    def __init__(self,name):
        self.name = name
        self.strength = self.__class__.initial_strength
        self.__class__.n +=1
        print self.__class__

            
class Alien(Player):
    #Class attributes for subclass Alien
    threshold = 30
    initial_strength=150
    n=0

When a new object is instantiated, the print statement in __init__
gives me
<class '__main__.Player'>
or
<class '__main__.Alien'>
How can I just get it to return

Player
or
Alien

Interestingly, if I do a class comparison of the form

if self.__class__== Alien:
    foo
elif self.__class__== Player
    bar

The comparison proceeds correctly. How can I get it to print the class
name cleanly? Do I have to convert <class '__main__.Alien'> to a
string and then use one or more string functions to clean it up?

Thomas Philips


From ptmcg at austin.rr._bogus_.com  Tue Apr 27 08:36:09 2004
From: ptmcg at austin.rr._bogus_.com (Paul McGuire)
Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2004 12:36:09 GMT
Subject: How Would You Do: Parsing and Expression Evaluation
References: <108rren1js1hn71@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <Zssjc.30110$NR5.2277@fe1.texas.rr.com>

"Al Christians" <achrist at easystreet.com> wrote in message
news:108rren1js1hn71 at corp.supernews.com...
> I've got an idea for an application, and I wonder how much of what it
> takes to create it is available in open source python components.
>
> My plan is this -- I want to do a simple spreadsheet-like application:
> I've used a wxGrid, so I expect that wxPython will do fine for the user
> interface.   The spreadsheet can be organized vertically, one item per
> line.  It might need no more than 100 rows or so.  On each line, the
> user will enter in one column an item (variable) name and, in another
> column, a formula or  expression for computing the item's value.  A
> third column will show the computed value.   There will usually be some
> circular references between the items, but their values will converge
> quickly with repeated evaluation.
>
> The final feature is a button that the user can click when they have the
> sheet set up correctly -- it will translate the formulas into simple C
> and python code to perform the same calculations as the spreadsheet.
>
> The formulas should be pretty easy -- add, subtract, multiply, divide,
> log, exponential,  and perhaps some user-defined functions.
>
> Are there any off-the-shelf python libraries that would make this kind
> of app much easier?  I don't have any special experience related to such
> things, so I surely don't want to re-invent the wheel out of pure
> ignorance -- should I try the parsing tools in the standard python
> library, or will something else work better for me?
>
> TIA for any advice,
>
>
> Al

One of the examples that comes with pyparsing is a simple 4-function
expression parser and evaluator, that is easily extendable to add
exponentiation and user-defined functions.

Download pyparsing at http://pyparsing.sourceforge.net .

-- Paul




From me at privacy.net  Fri Apr 30 23:13:23 2004
From: me at privacy.net (Heather Coppersmith)
Date: 30 Apr 2004 23:13:23 -0400
Subject: silent raw_input for passwords
References: <B36dncCgsNfVkQ7d3cwC-g@speakeasy.net>
Message-ID: <m2k6zwvnzg.fsf@unique.phony.fqdn>

On Fri, 30 Apr 2004 21:26:40 -0500,
Stephen Boulet <stephen.no at spam.theboulets.net.please> wrote:

> I need a password for a script and I would like to not have it
> stored in a file or shown in a terminal.

> "passphrase = raw_input()" still lets you see the input on the
> screen. Is there a way to have it be hidden? It's my gpg
> passphrase, so I don't want it anywhere except in my head.

See the getpass module; it's part of the standard library.

Most GUI's have similar functionality.

HTH,,
Heather

-- 
Heather Coppersmith
That's not right; that's not even wrong. -- Wolfgang Pauli


From erlendga at tva.ifi.uio.no  Thu Apr  1 13:19:30 2004
From: erlendga at tva.ifi.uio.no (Erlend Andreas Garberg)
Date: Thu, 1 Apr 2004 18:19:30 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Travelling salesman variation in python
Message-ID: <slrnc6on9h.spl.erlendga@tva.ifi.uio.no>

Hi!

I'm trying to code a implementation of a variation of the travelling 
salesman problem.

The problem is the following.

I have X nodes.
Each node has a number assosiated with each of the other nodes.

The problem is then:
Construct a ring of the nodes so that the sum of the numbers is the 
highest possible.

Example:
Nodes: 
A with numbers B->1200, C->2000
B with numbers A->3000, C->4000
C with numbers A->9000, B->5000

The optimal ring is in this case can f.ex. be:
A->1200->B->4000->C->9000->A with sum 14200.

I have implemented this in python in the following way:

hash is a dictionary with node-name as key and node-object as value.
Each node-object has a dictionary speeds with node-name as key and a 
number as value. this dict stores the numbers associated with the other 
nodes.

-------------------------------------------------------------------
# method xcombinations
def xcombinations(items, n):
    if n==0: yield []
    else:
        for i in xrange(len(items)):
            for cc in xcombinations(items[:i]+items[i+1:],n-1):
                yield [items[i]]+cc

# help function
func = lambda x,y: int(hash[x].speeds[y])


# code starts here:
	bestcomb = []
	bestspeed = 0

        for comb in xcombinations(hash.keys(),len(hash)):
            speed = sum(map(func,comb,comb[1:] + comb[:1]))
            if speed > bestspeed:
                bestcomb = comb
                bestspeed = speed

-----------------------------------------------------------------

My implementation generate all combinations, and check which gives the 
highest result.

My problem is that when the number of nodes is higher than 8, the 
algorithm slows to a crawl (because of O(n!) complexity). I wonder if 
there is some way I can optimize my algorithm to make it run faster? 
Currently it takes 20 seconds to compute the best combination with 9 
nodes on my hardware.


I would appreciate some comments on this :)
 
--
Regards
Erlend Garberg



From peter.maas at mplusr.de  Fri Apr  2 07:10:58 2004
From: peter.maas at mplusr.de (Peter Maas)
Date: Fri, 02 Apr 2004 14:10:58 +0200
Subject: Python conference slogan
In-Reply-To: <406D57FF.4040601@mplusr.de>
References: <mailman.189.1080759511.20120.python-list@python.org>	<kmjsj1-89u.ln1@snout.lairds.org>	<c4glmq$j1i$1@swifty.westend.com>	<30260531.0404010833.1b834032@posting.google.com>	<406C4DDF.5000907@zope.com>
	<mailman.259.1080890435.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<c4jj1i$f6g$1@swifty.westend.com> <406D57FF.4040601@mplusr.de>
Message-ID: <c4jl5m$gud$1@swifty.westend.com>

Peter Maas wrote:
 >   [stolen from: Your cat would by Whiskas :)]
correction: [stolen from: Your cat would BUY Whiskas :)] :)

Mit freundlichen Gruessen,

Peter Maas

-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Peter Maas, M+R Infosysteme, D-52070 Aachen, Hubert-Wienen-Str. 24
Tel +49-241-93878-0 Fax +49-241-93878-20 eMail peter.maas at mplusr.de
-------------------------------------------------------------------


From peter at engcorp.com  Thu Apr 15 08:02:19 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2004 08:02:19 -0400
Subject: Getters and setters in python, common practise
In-Reply-To: <c5lssm$kov$1@arcturus.ciril.fr>
References: <407e402c$1@newsflash.abo.fi> <xfydnUmny4UrwuPd4p2dnA@powergate.ca>
	<407e6cf9@newsflash.abo.fi> <c5lssm$kov$1@arcturus.ciril.fr>
Message-ID: <BbudnV_BesJW5OPdRVn-ig@powergate.ca>

Yermat wrote:

> Petter Holmstr?m wrote:
>> I have not found any documentation on this topic. Could you please 
>> point me to some?
> 
> see "property" at http://www.python.org/doc/2.3.3/lib/built-in-funcs.html
> 
> You could also look at 
> http://users.rcn.com/python/download/Descriptor.htm to understand how it 
> does really work.

Also helpful: http://www.python.org/2.2/descrintro.html#property


From nospam at kochandreas.com  Sun Apr 25 14:01:05 2004
From: nospam at kochandreas.com (Andreas Koch)
Date: Sun, 25 Apr 2004 20:01:05 +0200
Subject: Andreas' practical language comparison
In-Reply-To: <408BF601.30004@engcorp.com>
References: <c6glig$phm$07$4@news.t-online.com> <408BF601.30004@engcorp.com>
Message-ID: <c6gu3l$pk6$05$1@news.t-online.com>

Peter Hansen wrote:


> The Java implementation of Bubble Sort doesn't follow the
> specification for the algorithm.  It fails to use a "swapped"
> flag to determine when to terminate the loop.

Thanks Peter - for a quick solution i corrected the problem
myself (and corrected sort order, too), and added your
python examples.


-- 
                                   Andreas
He screamed: THIS IS SIG!


From mrchameleon at hotmail.com  Sun Apr  4 07:09:55 2004
From: mrchameleon at hotmail.com (Chris Reay)
Date: 4 Apr 2004 04:09:55 -0700
Subject: OT (was Re: But it still doesn't explain the joke)
References: <mailman.189.1080759511.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<kmjsj1-89u.ln1@snout.lairds.org> <c4glmq$j1i$1@swifty.westend.com>
	<c4h6ad$lu0$1@panix1.panix.com>
	<106o7vn56fgmt85@corp.supernews.com>
	<XoWdnevUOvXsu_HdRVn-tA@powergate.ca>
	<406F3C29.6030504@freedom.place>
	<c4nrgo$a98$1@news.service.uci.edu>
Message-ID: <7652139e.0404040309.50a1055d@posting.google.com>

Josiah Carlson <jcarlson at uci.edu> wrote in message news:<c4nrgo$a98$1 at news.service.uci.edu>...
> 
> You tell me, who'se the traitor?
> 
>   - Josiah

I can't; but I can tell who's grammatically confused, and whose
opinions may also be so.


From jepler at unpythonic.net  Tue Apr 20 11:32:12 2004
From: jepler at unpythonic.net (Jeff Epler)
Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 10:32:12 -0500
Subject: closing file
In-Reply-To: <4085366B.2020407@attglobal.net>
References: <4085366B.2020407@attglobal.net>
Message-ID: <20040420153211.GB2937@unpythonic.net>

A file object is automatically closed by its destructor.  In CPython,
an object's destructor (a method called __del__) is called when its
refcount equals zero.  This rule is a little different in Jython, and
the rule I just gave also doesn't explain what happens when there is a
cycle (A holds a reference to B holds a reference to A).

In both examples below, there is a single reference to the recently
created Marcello object, which has the single reference to a Noisy
object.  So when m is deleted (explicitly or implicitly), the refcount
of the Noisy instance m.o also drops to zero and its __del__ is called.

The opened file in your original example would be closed at the same
times as Noisy prints "del".

Jeff

class Noisy:
    def __del__(self):
        print "del"

class Marcello:
    def f(self):
        self.o = Noisy()

print "Example 1: using del to collect objects"
m = Marcello()
m.f()
del m

print "Example 2: the locals of a function are implicitly deleted at return"
def g():
    m = Marcello()
    m.f()
g()



From bo at systemhouse.dk  Wed Apr 21 18:18:34 2004
From: bo at systemhouse.dk (Bo Jacobsen)
Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2004 00:18:34 +0200
Subject: How to get the ip addresses of a nic
References: <LEfhc.146586$jf4.7761132@news000.worldonline.dk>
	<2sKdnSP1MpnEaRjd4p2dnA@adelphia.com>
Message-ID: <arChc.147922$jf4.7800368@news000.worldonline.dk>

> > Is there a simple way to get all the ip addresses of a nic, beyound
parsing
> > /etc/sysconfig/.....
> >
> > -------------------------------------------------
> > Bo Jacobsen
> >
> >
>
> I just had to do deal with this BS a couple days ago.  I couldn't get
> the socket module to give it to me.  The only ways I found were parsing
> the output of ifconfig (or equivalent on other platforms) or connecting
> to server and then looking at your socket.  I don't like either one.
>
> Rob
>
> # Method 1
>
> s = socket.socket(socket.AF_INET, socket.SOCK_STREAM)
> s.connect(('somewebserver', 80))
> return s.getsockname()[0]
>
> # Method 2
>
> if sys.platform == 'linux2':
>      out = commands.getoutput('/sbin/ifconfig')
>      return re.search('inet addr:(.+?)\s', out).group(1)
> elif sys.platform == 'win32':
>      si, so = os.popen4('route print')
>      out = so.read()
>      ipPatt = r'\d+\.\d+\.\d+.\d+'
>      return re.search(r'0\.0\.0\.0\s+0\.0\.0\.0\s+' + ipPatt + r'\s+(' +
> ipPatt + ')', out).group(1)
> elif sys.platform == 'freebsd5':
>      out = commands.getoutput('/sbin/ifconfig')
>      return re.search('inet (\S+)\s', out).group(1)
> else:
>      raise Exception('unsupported platform: %s' % sys.platform)

And the parsing gets much more difficult with multiple nics and aliases.

Bo




From skip at pobox.com  Sun Apr 11 08:28:09 2004
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Sun, 11 Apr 2004 07:28:09 -0500
Subject: solaris install of python
In-Reply-To: <c5b8nr+t2jj@eGroups.com>
References: <c5b8nr+t2jj@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <16505.14809.376948.850935@montanaro.dyndns.org>


    gotcha> has anyone installed pythong on solaris 8 before, 

Yes, plenty of times.

    gotcha> i am getting erors when i do a ./configure any ideas why ?

Perhaps you have an incomplete GCC installation or don't have /usr/ccs/bin
in your PATH.

Skip



From xslt-admin at gnome.org  Sat Apr 10 02:24:01 2004
From: xslt-admin at gnome.org (xslt-admin at gnome.org)
Date: Sat, 10 Apr 2004 02:24:01 -0400
Subject: Your message to xslt awaits moderator approval
Message-ID: <20040410062401.3830.33987.Mailman@moniker.gnome.org>

Your mail to 'xslt' with the subject

    Re: Excel file

Is being held until the list moderator can review it for approval.

The reason it is being held:

    Post by non-member to a members-only list

Either the message will get posted to the list, or you will receive
notification of the moderator's decision.



From tzot at sil-tec.gr  Mon Apr  5 05:46:58 2004
From: tzot at sil-tec.gr (Christos TZOTZIOY Georgiou)
Date: Mon, 05 Apr 2004 12:46:58 +0300
Subject: An attempt at guessing the encoding of a (non-unicode) string
References: <c1sq60t7af0lgs1ovilg6ds220dkc0inpd@4ax.com>
	<80j3k1-ijc.ln1@home.rogerbinns.com>
Message-ID: <pda270ljmgm8fa941f4uen2fggiouomnlc@4ax.com>

On Sat, 3 Apr 2004 12:22:05 -0800, rumours say that "Roger Binns"
<rogerb at rogerbinns.com> might have written:

>Christos TZOTZIOY Georgiou wrote:
>> This could be implemented as a function in codecs.py (let's call it
>> "wild_guess"), that is based on some pre-calculated data.

>Windows already has a related function:
>
>http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/default.asp?url=/library/en-us/intl/unicode_81np.asp

As far as I understand, this function tests whether its argument is a
valid Unicode text, so it has little to do with the issue I brought up:
take a python string (8-bit bytes) and try to guess its encoding (eg,
iso8859-1, iso8859-7 etc).

There must be a similar function used for the "auto guess encoding"
function of the MS Internet Explorer, however:

1. even if it is exported and usable under windows, it is not platform
independent

2. its guessing success rate (until IE 5.5 which I happen to use) is not
very high

<snip>

Thanks for your reply, anyway.
-- 
TZOTZIOY, I speak England very best,
Ils sont fous ces Redmontains! --Harddix


From davidw at dedasys.com  Fri Apr 16 11:01:51 2004
From: davidw at dedasys.com (David N. Welton)
Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2004 15:01:51 GMT
Subject: Goodbye TCL
References: <0LudnSads6NmpuPdRVn-vw@centurytel.net>
	<21ccedf1.0404160639.14c2d852@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <87n05cge7o.fsf@dedasys.com>

pedietz at west.com (Phil Dietz) writes:

> Forget OO...  TCL still doesn't have a standard database API in the
> core yet....

That could go in this lib too.  nstcl and DIO are probably the
contenders here.

-- 
David N. Welton
   Consulting: http://www.dedasys.com/
     Personal: http://www.dedasys.com/davidw/
Free Software: http://www.dedasys.com/freesoftware/
   Apache Tcl: http://tcl.apache.org/


From has.temp2 at virgin.net  Thu Apr 29 16:09:13 2004
From: has.temp2 at virgin.net (has)
Date: 29 Apr 2004 13:09:13 -0700
Subject: Is classless worth consideration
References: <g9k090lhocd1nbd7g230br6ooub113hjt6@4ax.com>
	<69cbbef2.0404290259.fd8d71c@posting.google.com>
	<MbWdnTRxROYvZg3dRVn-uw@powergate.ca>
Message-ID: <69cbbef2.0404291209.7a98a799@posting.google.com>

Peter Hansen <peter at engcorp.com> wrote in message news:<MbWdnTRxROYvZg3dRVn-uw at powergate.ca>...
> has wrote:
> 
> > Well, as far as Python itself is concerned, it'd go a long way in
> > eliminating the hideously baroque and increasingly brittle OO model it
> 
> I find it especially hard to find the enthusiasm to read past
> the highly inflammatory phrase "hideously baroque".  I had to
> do a double-take just to confirm that the poster is indeed
> talking about Python.

Compared to C++, I expect it's a real breath of fresh air. But
compared to how something like Self does OO, it is indeed hideously
baroque.


> If you think it's baroque**, say so.  Adding "hideous" just tells us
> you are already highly biased against Python and poisons anything
> else you were about to say...

Oh, puh-leez. Now I'll not take you to task for such a dopey comment
this time around 'cos I'm not a regular here and I'm a right bugger to
Google for by my initials, so it's hard to figure out exactly who I
am. But let me remedy this by providing my web address so you can go
check my credentials:

http://freespace.virgin.net/hamish.sanderson/

If you still want to accuse me of such childish nonsense afterwards,
bring barbeque sauce. :)


> ** Please double-check the definition of "baroque" that you are
> using as well.  

"Feature-encrusted; complex; gaudy; verging on excessive."


> Terms more like "elegant" and "simple" have come to mind, however,
> which is quite at odds with your perception.  Strange, that.

Yes it is. However, I got my observation skills from several years'
art school training, so I don't think the fault lies there. I may not
have the formal CS training and deep programming knowledge and
experience that many folks here have, but neither am I burdened by the
religous and political baggage that all too often seems to accompany
it.

Oh, and another skill I've learn is saying exactly what I think, and
being none too shy about how I say it. Just so you know.  :)


From sean_berry at cox.net  Mon Apr 12 20:40:45 2004
From: sean_berry at cox.net (Sean Berry)
Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2004 17:40:45 -0700
Subject: Escaping characters in MySQLdb query
References: <AkEec.271$U83.155@fed1read03>
	<c5fb0o$131c4$1@ID-88904.news.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <nGGec.836$U83.14@fed1read03>

It doesn't work.  If I have a value with a ', it creates an error.


"Michael Walter" <cm at leetspeak.org> wrote in message
news:c5fb0o$131c4$1 at ID-88904.news.uni-berlin.de...
> Sean Berry wrote:
> > I wrote a little script that is inserting thousands of records into a
mysql
> > database.
> >
> > How do I escape characters like ' in my insert statements?
> >
> > I have something like the following (much shorter) example:
> >
> > c.execute("INSERT INTO records (var1, var2) values ('%s', '%s')"
%(value1,
> > value2))
> >
> > My problem is when value1 is something like "Tom's auto supply".  The '
in
> > Tom's needs to be escaped.  How can I do this?
> >
> > Thanks.
> >
> >
> I suppose you do like:
>
> c.execute("INSERT INTO records (var1, var2) values ('%s', '%s')",
> (value1,value2))
>
> and have all magic done for you.
>
> Cheers,
> Michael




From theller at python.net  Wed Apr 14 11:04:13 2004
From: theller at python.net (Thomas Heller)
Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2004 17:04:13 +0200
Subject: ctypes.com - unable to call function, read property
References: <2D89F6C4A80FA547BF5D5B8FDDD04523060C65@exchange.adrembi.com>
Message-ID: <brlutxci.fsf@python.net>

"Roman Yakovenko" <roman.yakovenko at actimize.com> writes:

> Hi. I am trying for the first time to use ctypes.com module. 
> I have question: I have reference to object that implements IDiaSession interface.
>
> IDiaSession._methods_ = IUnknown._methods_ + [
>     STDMETHOD(HRESULT, "_get_loadAddress", POINTER(c_ulonglong)),
>     STDMETHOD(HRESULT, "getEnumDebugStreams", POINTER(POINTER(IDiaEnumDebugStreams))),
>
> I can't find out how I call _get_loadAddress and getEnumDebugStreams methods.
> I know that in com "get_" is a prefix for property. What should I do ? 
> Also "_get_loadAddress" defined as property.
>

So far, ctypes.com does not try to expose a higher level interface.  So
properties are exposed as getter and setter methods, with _get_ and
_set_ prepended to the property name.

You call the methods exactly as you would do in C (or raw C++, maybe):


from ctypes import c_ulonglong, byref

load_address = c_ulonglong()
obj._get_loadAddress(byref(load_address))
# now access load_address.value to get the numerical value

Calling getEnumDebugStreams is only slightly more complicated:

enum_streams = POINTER(IDiaEnumDebugStreams)()
obj.getEnumDebugStreams(byref(enum_streams))

Now you can call methods on the enum_streams object in the same way:

retval = c_long()
enum_streams.count(byref(retval))
print retval.value

I hope you get the idea - most of the time you can literally convert C
code to Python code.

Thomas

PS: I would like to clarify two additional things:

1. POINTER(IDiaEnumDebugStreams) creates a *class*.

POINTER(IDiaEnumDebugStreams)() creates an instance of this class, which
is actually a NULL pointer to a IDiaEnum... interface.

This latter corresponds to this C code:

IDiaEnumDebugStreams *p;

2. COM refcounting is automatic for probably 95% of the cases, although
the rules are pretty complicated.  The largest sample program for client
dies com is probably the readtlb.py tool itself.

PPS: There is a ctypes mailing list, which is the best place to answer
questions like these ;-)  Also available via nntp through gmane.org.




From peter at engcorp.com  Tue Apr  6 11:38:36 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Tue, 06 Apr 2004 11:38:36 -0400
Subject: Does Python compete with Java?
In-Reply-To: <roy-B8C1A2.11291006042004@reader1.panix.com>
References: <8b336527.0404051337.51bb4a1b@posting.google.com>
	<1073su4etm95p35@news.supernews.com>
	<roy-094613.21022405042004@reader1.panix.com>
	<cpxcc.2747$BF2.522023@news20.bellglobal.com>
	<tyfhdvxxkih.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
	<roy-B8C1A2.11291006042004@reader1.panix.com>
Message-ID: <_r6dnUARpa5hU-_dRVn-tw@powergate.ca>

Roy Smith wrote:
> The difference is that Java exposes the compilation step to the user 
> while Python hides it.  If you really wanted to, you could hack up a 
> "Python compiler" which takes .py files, imports them to force 
> generation of the corresponding .pyc files, and then exits without 
> executing anything.  You could then execute the .pyc files in a distinct 
> "execute phase".  Not sure why you would want to do that, though :-)

python -c "import py_compile as p; p.compile('mymodule.py')"


From kirk at strauser.com  Mon Apr 12 20:25:16 2004
From: kirk at strauser.com (Kirk Strauser)
Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2004 00:25:16 GMT
Subject: Random Numbers and a thought
References: <107m6f0t4i0gnff@corp.supernews.com>
	<ctednRIVbfzSgObdRVn-gQ@powergate.ca>
	<107m8qvphrjd303@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <87fzb84tf4.fsf@strauser.com>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

At 2004-04-12T23:16:39Z, "A Evans" <ae> writes:

> Well from what I understand about my last post numbers computers generate
> aren't truly random

That is absolutely true.  However, the periodicity will be measured in
values like "2^128".

> it may be a bit of work for us to actually sit down and do the figuring,
> but it is always possible.

Not true.  First, although computers aren't truly random, a good
cryptographic pseudorandom number generator (PRNG) collects "entropy pools"
to mix the results of the output sequence.  The unmixed sequence is more
scattered than you could ever possibly hope to crack with a computer built
by civilians.

> Basically I would like to create an application that takes a series of
> random numbers generated by a computer and searches for the pattern inside
> those numbers

So would the National Security Agency.

> I guess if the numbers were between say 1 and 1000 it would take 1000
> inputs to understand the pattern if not more I would like to solve it
> before that

Not enough close.  Sorry.
- -- 
Kirk Strauser
The Strauser Group
Open. Solutions. Simple.
http://www.strausergroup.com/
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Version: GnuPG v1.2.4 (GNU/Linux)

iD8DBQFAezMS5sRg+Y0CpvERAoi2AJ970RCE1F/GT+Doz4c5+yjKWLjKEgCbBaNk
+hEcC27+5d92pILUN8XPVzg=
=CKAa
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----


From ed-no at spam-eepatents.com  Tue Apr 20 15:21:02 2004
From: ed-no at spam-eepatents.com (Ed Suominen)
Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 12:21:02 -0700
Subject: block ciphers
References: <7L_gc.53134$Gn6.49963@newssvr25.news.prodigy.com>
	<7x3c6zqvdy.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<W50hc.24380$NH7.24058@newssvr27.news.prodigy.com>
	<pan.2004.04.20.10.37.22.865654@no.spam.org>
Message-ID: <KLGdnXiMBdyB5RjdRVn-jg@centurytel.net>

Nick Efford wrote:

> On Tue, 20 Apr 2004 02:41:58 +0000, Trevor Perrin wrote:
> 
>> Me neither, exactly... ;-)  I'm just trying to gauge the interest or
>> resistance to this, and see if there's any way I could help.
> 
> I would definitely like to see better crypto in the standard library.
> 
> 
> N.

Agreed. See http://privaria.org for an example of what I might do with it.



From no_spam at terastat.com  Tue Apr 27 13:48:33 2004
From: no_spam at terastat.com (bap)
Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2004 17:48:33 GMT
Subject: help: py2exe and com server
References: <408a78f5$0$41761$5fc3050@dreader2.news.tiscali.nl>
	<mailman.14.1082966096.25742.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <R1xjc.52219$aQ6.3932152@attbi_s51>

I had the sample problem -- using the lastest version of pywin32 (version
201 -- they've changed the numbering system) allows the com server to work
fine

Bruce Peterson
"Thomas Heller" <theller at python.net> wrote in message
news:mailman.14.1082966096.25742.python-list at python.org...
> "Paul Mayal" <mayal at tiscali.be> writes:
>
> > Hi,
> >
> > I have written a com server in python 2.3 (ActiveState distribution). I
have
> > build the dll with py2exe.
> > First of all, py2exe complain he can't find pythoncom module.
> > I can register the dll with regsvr32 on my development workstation. But
when
> > I try to register the com dll on an another workstation, the
registration
> > fail.
>
> I think you have to use a newer build of pywin32 (formerly called
> win32all) than that included with ActiveState python.
>
> Thomas
>
>




From eldiener at earthlink.net  Mon Apr 26 18:27:30 2004
From: eldiener at earthlink.net (Edward Diener)
Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2004 22:27:30 GMT
Subject: Uploading files from a server
Message-ID: <m1gjc.3688$g31.2919@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net>

What is the easiest way in Python in a web server to upload a client file,
once the file name on the client's machine has been entered, to a directory
on the server ?




From mwh at python.net  Mon Apr 19 06:48:13 2004
From: mwh at python.net (Michael Hudson)
Date: Mon, 19 Apr 2004 10:48:13 GMT
Subject: Automatic, portable optimization of global access
References: <5d83790c.0404150721.46a3b5d0@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <m3vfjwqm4y.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk>

python at rcn.com (Raymond Hettinger) writes:

> FWIW, I've posted a brief, but powerful recipe for a bytecode
> optimization that saves known globals as constants:
> 
>     http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Cookbook/Python/Recipe/277940

You seem to have reimplemented:

http://bytecodehacks.sourceforge.net/bch-docs/bch/module-bytecodehacks.closure.html

:-)

Indeed the first "bytecodehack" was very similar to this.

Cheers,
mwh

-- 
  ZAPHOD:  Listen three eyes, don't try to outwierd me, I get stranger
           things than you free with my breakfast cereal.
                    -- The Hitch-Hikers Guide to the Galaxy, Episode 7


From andrew-pythonlist at puzzling.org  Thu Apr  1 06:33:19 2004
From: andrew-pythonlist at puzzling.org (Andrew Bennetts)
Date: Thu, 1 Apr 2004 21:33:19 +1000
Subject: Fetching websites with Python
In-Reply-To: <c4eve2$f50$04$1@news.t-online.com>
References: <c4eve2$f50$04$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <20040401113319.GA14703@frobozz>

On Wed, Mar 31, 2004 at 07:33:45PM +0200, Markus Franz wrote:
> Hi.
> 
> How can I grab websites with a command-line python script? I want to start
> the script like this:
> 
> ./script.py ---xxx--- http://www.address1.com http://www.address2.com
> http://www.address3.com
> 
> The script should load these 3 websites (or more if specified) in parallel
> (may be processes? threads?) and show their contents seperated by ---xxx---.
> The whole output should be print on the command-line. Each website should
> only have 15 seconds to return the contents (maximum) in order to avoid a
> never-ending script.
> 
> How can I do this?

You could use Twisted <http://twistedmatrix.com>:

    from twisted.internet import reactor
    from twisted.web.client import getPage
    import sys
    
    def gotPage(page):
        print seperator
        print page
    
    def failed(failure):
        print seperator + ' FAILED'
        failure.printTraceback()
    
    def decrement(ignored):
        global count
        count -= 1
        if count == 0:
            reactor.stop()
    
    seperator = sys.argv[1]
    urlList = sys.argv[2:]
    count = len(urlList)
    for url in urlList:
        getPage(url, timeout=15).addCallbacks(gotPage, failed).addBoth(decrement)
    
    reactor.run()

It will grab the sites in parallel, printing them in the order they arrive,
and doesn't use multiple processes, or multiple threads :)

-Andrew.




From jcarlson at uci.edu  Thu Apr  1 19:25:50 2004
From: jcarlson at uci.edu (Josiah Carlson)
Date: Thu, 01 Apr 2004 16:25:50 -0800
Subject: Method for providing a trail period on a program
In-Reply-To: <L8idnY07QbRfNPHdRVn-hw@comcast.com>
References: <L8idnY07QbRfNPHdRVn-hw@comcast.com>
Message-ID: <c4ic4j$nra$1@news.service.uci.edu>

> I'm searching for a good way to provide a "trail
> period" (something like 90 days) for a commercial
> application that I'm writing.  I'd like something
> that can easily stop working 90 days after
> installation.  Can anyone point me to something
> that exists already?

Using windows registry pseudo-code

if stoptime_not_in_registry:
     stoptime = time.time() + 90*24*3600
     store_stoptime_in_registry(stoptime)
if time.time() < stoptime:
     continue working
else:
     give registration warning and quit


FYI: most (if not all) methods for restricting users to some limited 
trial period are flawed in some major way; users can take a snapshot of 
their machine before installation and after installation and single run, 
and determine what has changed to determine exactly what is necessary to 
remove such protections.

  - Josiah


From jdhunter at ace.bsd.uchicago.edu  Mon Apr 19 10:47:47 2004
From: jdhunter at ace.bsd.uchicago.edu (John Hunter)
Date: Mon, 19 Apr 2004 09:47:47 -0500
Subject: datetimes, tzinfo and gmtime epoch
In-Reply-To: <m21xmn7js2.fsf@mother.paradise.lost> (John Hunter's message of
	"Fri, 16 Apr 2004 15:25:01 -0500")
References: <DE1CF2B4FEC4A342BF62B6B2B334601E562005@opus.amorhq.net>
	<m2d6677lv1.fsf@mother.paradise.lost>
	<m21xmn7js2.fsf@mother.paradise.lost>
Message-ID: <m21xmkkorw.fsf@mother.paradise.lost>

>>>>> "John" == John Hunter <jdhunter at ace.bsd.uchicago.edu> writes:

    John> No goddawgy, I'm still off by an hour.  Basically, I need to
    John> go from datetime -> gm epoch time -> and back while properly
    John> accounting for dst.

Ok, for future generations of google-groupers looking for a free ride,
I think I finally got this one figured out.  The problem arose from
the fact that I wanted to be able to support dates in any timezone but
obviously the mktime offset needs to be in localtime.  In my example,
the tz was Eastern but my localtime is Central which accounts for the
1 hour discrepancy.  The key is to use the arbitrary tzinfo in the
datetime constructor but the Local tzinfo instance in computing the
mktime offset.  Obvious once you realize it.

Thanks Tim Peters for defining all these nice tzinfo classes!  Why
aren't these part of the standard datetime module, or are they lurking
somewhere in there?

from your_timezone_module import Eastern, Pacific, Central, Local
import time
from datetime import datetime

SEC_PER_DAY = 24*3600
class PyDatetimeConverter:
    """
    Convert python2.3 datetime instances to/from epoch gmtime
    """

    def __init__(self, tz=Eastern):
        self.tz = tz
        self.local = Local
        
    def epoch(self, x):
        'convert userland datetime instance x to epoch'        
        offset = self.local.utcoffset(x).days*SEC_PER_DAY + \
                 self.local.utcoffset(x).seconds
        return time.mktime( x.timetuple() ) + offset

    def from_epoch(self, e):
        'return a datetime  from the epoch'
        y,month,d,h,m,s,wd,jd,ds = time.gmtime(e)
        return datetime(y,month,d,h,m,s, tzinfo=self.tz)

tz = Pacific
dt1 = datetime(2004, 03, 01, tzinfo=tz)  # before dst
dt2 = datetime(2004, 04, 15, tzinfo=tz)  # after dst

dtc = PyDatetimeConverter(tz)

assert( dtc.from_epoch( dtc.epoch(dt1) ) == dt1 )
assert( dtc.from_epoch( dtc.epoch(dt2) ) == dt2 )




From fumanchu at amor.org  Sat Apr 10 19:27:52 2004
From: fumanchu at amor.org (Robert Brewer)
Date: Sat, 10 Apr 2004 16:27:52 -0700
Subject: new-style class instance check
Message-ID: <DE1CF2B4FEC4A342BF62B6B2B334601E561FE0@opus.amorhq.net>

Richard Gruet wrote:
> How to determine that an object o is for sure an instance of 
> a new-style
> class, without knowing of which specific class ?
> That is, if I define a function:
> 
> def isNewStyleClassInstance(o):
>     pass    ## to be completed
> 
> .. I want to pass the following test:
> 
> def C: pass
> def CNew(object): pass

I assume you meant "class C" instead of "def C" ;) If it's new-style,
it'll have an "mro" attribute:

>>> class OldStyle: pass
... 
>>> class NewStyle(object): pass
... 
>>> NewStyle.mro
<built-in method mro of type object at 0x00E88F38>
>>> NewStyle.mro()
[<class '__main__.NewStyle'>, <type 'object'>]
>>> OldStyle.mro()
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<interactive input>", line 1, in ?
AttributeError: class OldStyle has no attribute 'mro'


Hope that helps,

Robert Brewer
MIS
Amor Ministries
fumanchu at amor.org



From mwh at python.net  Thu Apr 22 06:34:13 2004
From: mwh at python.net (Michael Hudson)
Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2004 10:34:13 GMT
Subject: Cell objects and their values
References: <mailman.898.1082612009.20120.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <m38ygopahn.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk>

"Robert Brewer" <fumanchu at amor.org> writes:

> Jeff Epler wrote:
> > This seems to work, but it's undocumented (specifically, 
> > func_closure as
> > an argument to new.function is undocumented) and makes my tummy feel
> > funny when I think about it.
> > 
> > >>> import new
> > >>> def cell_get(cell):
> > ...    def f(): return cell
> > ...    return new.function(f.func_code, {}, "f", (), (cell,))()
> > ...    
> 
> Rock. On.
> 
> That is frickin' brilliant in at least three ways I never would have
> thought of. :) Thanks! Looking back over Raymond's bytecode hack in PEP
> 329, I notice he also used func_closure as an arg to function(). In
> addition, he avoided importing the "new" module by just calling
> type(f)().

That wouldn't work in Python 2.2, I don't know what Jeff is using
these days...

Cheers,
mwh

-- 
  On the other hand, the following areas are subject to boycott
  in reaction to the rampant impurity of design or execution, as
  determined after a period of study, in no particular order:
    ...                              http://www.naggum.no/profile.html


From NO-SPAM-PLEASEdanmessenga at hotmail.com  Wed Apr  7 18:52:35 2004
From: NO-SPAM-PLEASEdanmessenga at hotmail.com (Dan Messenger)
Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2004 23:52:35 +0100
Subject: from vh3 import virthost / AddVirtDomain / Ensim / Apache
Message-ID: <c520nj$2ndag2$1@ID-59554.news.uni-berlin.de>

Hi,

I'm new to python, and am trying to use some premade scripts on RedHat 7,
but its giving me errors.

The scripts are part of the Ensim hosting software, and when I run the
command "AddVirtDomain" from a root shell, it works fine.

However when I call it from my php page, and thus running under the apache
user, I get the following error:

Traceback (most recent call last):
File "/usr/local/bin/AddVirtDomain", line 26, in ?
from vh3 import virthost
File "virtualhosting/virthost.py", line 46, in ?
File
"/home/build/qa/webppliance/3.1.11/2/lwp/vaishali2/WebGui/base/services/vh3/
virtualhosting/virtutil.py", line 14, in ?
ImportError: No module named logging

The first file mentioned is the one I am running, and 2nd two dont even
exist - tho the script runs fine under a root shell.

To me this indicates a permissions problem - but permissions to what? The
files mentioned dont exist !

Anybody got any ideas ?
Thanks in advance
-Dan




From jepler at unpythonic.net  Fri Apr 23 14:21:43 2004
From: jepler at unpythonic.net (Jeff Epler)
Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2004 13:21:43 -0500
Subject: walking a list
In-Reply-To: <pan.2004.04.23.18.10.31.541085@MAPS.chello.be>
References: <pan.2004.04.23.18.10.31.541085@MAPS.chello.be>
Message-ID: <20040423182143.GD2150@unpythonic.net>

def print_or_recurse(l):
    for i in l:
        if isinstance(i, list): print_or_recurse(i)
        else: print i

print_or_recurse([1,2,[3,2],5,[6,5,4]])

Jeff



From gulliver at atr.co.jp  Fri Apr  9 01:21:25 2004
From: gulliver at atr.co.jp (Roberto Lopez-Gulliver)
Date: 8 Apr 2004 22:21:25 -0700
Subject: New PIL user : How to merge images
References: <4075b940$0$1963$ba620e4c@news.skynet.be>
Message-ID: <26b7aa41.0404082121.50a27a03@posting.google.com>

try this,

import Image

RED   = (255, 0, 0)
GREEN = (0, 255, 0)
BLUE  = (0, 0, 255)
# create/read your images
bg  = Image.new('RGB', (800, 600), RED)
img = Image.new('RGB', (400, 400), GREEN)
## paste it
W, H = bg.size
w, h = img.size
xo, yo = (W-w)/2, (H-h)/2
bg.paste(img, (xo, yo, xo+w, yo+h))
## voila!
bg.show()

you may also consider using ImageMagick (www.imagemagick.org) for this special case.

hope this helps.

--r


From peter at engcorp.com  Sun Apr 25 18:15:38 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Sun, 25 Apr 2004 18:15:38 -0400
Subject: DDE using the Windows version of Python
In-Reply-To: <MPG.1af620767e3961259898a7@NEWS.INDIVIDUAL.NET>
References: <MPG.1af620767e3961259898a7@NEWS.INDIVIDUAL.NET>
Message-ID: <B8-dnfvQWJMXpRHdRVn-uw@powergate.ca>

Chaos Master wrote:

> Is there any "module" to do communication between a Python program and other 
> software, using DDE protocol?

Google is your friend, leading to this:

http://www.faqts.com/knowledge_base/view.phtml/aid/5111

-Peter


From jepler at unpythonic.net  Wed Apr 21 11:31:03 2004
From: jepler at unpythonic.net (Jeff Epler)
Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2004 10:31:03 -0500
Subject: Python GUI wrapper for a long operation
In-Reply-To: <E1BGJ3v-0000La-00@ns.purdue.org>
References: <de21d442.0404142156.2b9f7ef0@posting.google.com>
	<de21d442.0404201902.429a6b22@posting.google.com>
	<108cnp89aedqp82@corp.supernews.com>
	<mailman.831.1082550203.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<E1BGJ3v-0000La-00@ns.purdue.org>
Message-ID: <20040421153103.GA10591@unpythonic.net>

Cameron is right.  In my other life, I frequently curse at places in
code where a programmer has added a call to "update" for the wrong
reason--usually, the code I run into needs to know the size of a newly
created widget, and "update" followed by "wm geometry" or "winfo" was
regarded as the way to get it.  It doesn't happen so much any more,
over the past few *years* I've rooted out most of the bad calls, or more
frequently converted them to "update idletasks" because it's easier than
completely fixing the code.

Using the word "simply" does a disservice to the potential subtleties
of this approach, which include race conditions (they're not just for
threaded programs!) or a growing stack. (where "update" calls a binding
which calls "update" to arbitrary levels of nesting).

In my example program, I made sure that the "start calculation" button
was always disabled after it was pressed and before a call to "update",
so there's no race condition there.  The "interrupt calculation" button is
only disabled during calculation (and it's the only thing enabled during
that time), and it doesn't call "update", so there's no arbitrary nesting.

For any non-trivial program, you'll get this thought process wrong.
Heck, I wouldn't be surprised to hear that I got it wrong in this case,
despite the apparent simplicity.  However, even if you make the
calculation run in an event-driven way, or using threads (or abusing
generators to act as coroutines), there's still something modal about
"a long-running calculation is happening now", and it takes care to
make sure the user can never do something inappropriate for the program
in its current state.

Jeff



From no.email at please.com  Mon Apr 12 05:54:23 2004
From: no.email at please.com (Stevie_Mac)
Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2004 10:54:23 +0100
Subject: pythonwin crash (used to work) - please help quick.
References: <5Reec.62668$Id.61067@news-binary.blueyonder.co.uk>
	<mailman.537.1081743469.20120.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <c5dp0a$2ebl$1@news.wplus.net>

I think seen somthing like this on net somewhere when i was searching.

So if I understand this, a python GUI can't debug a script that uses code
from any other GUI implementation (like wx for example)?

If so, dang! Whats my options - different IDE - or - no debug!

wait, im sure when I tried to run the script direct (through python and
pythonw) it still bombed - but in pyShell it didn't - hows that?

Stevie_Mac :confused:


"Paul Prescod" <paul at prescod.net> wrote in message
news:mailman.537.1081743469.20120.python-list at python.org...
> Stevie_mac wrote:
>
> > OS=XP, Python 2.3, wx2.5.1.5u
> > Not sure what's to blame here - or to be more precise, how to fix it!...
> >
> > If I do this in PythonWin...
> > import wx
> > d = wx.Dialog(None, -1, 'title')
> > BANG - IDE crashes
>
> It typically doesn't work to have two GUIs in one process. PythonWin
> uses MFC. Wx is a totally different GUI.
>
>   Paul Prescod
>
>
>




From xpythonist at yahoo.com.br  Fri Apr  2 20:18:59 2004
From: xpythonist at yahoo.com.br (=?iso-8859-1?q?Aloysio=20Figueiredo?=)
Date: Fri, 2 Apr 2004 22:18:59 -0300 (ART)
Subject: Making the Zen of Python more useful
In-Reply-To: <ndKdnawyUZURd_DdRVn-hw@powergate.ca>
Message-ID: <20040403011859.1088.qmail@web61008.mail.yahoo.com>

 --- Peter Hansen <peter at engcorp.com> escreveu: 

 
> Aloysio, it's often helpful that sys.__stdout__ preserves a reference
> to the original sys.stdout (similarly with sys.__stdin__ and
> sys.__stderr__) so you don't have to preserve it manually like
> that.
>

I didn't know that! Thank you very much for the information.
 
> -Peter
> -- 
Aloysio

> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list 

______________________________________________________________________

Yahoo! Mail - O melhor e-mail do Brasil! Abra sua conta agora:
http://br.yahoo.com/info/mail.html



From cpl.19.ghum at spamgourmet.com  Sat Apr 17 03:57:05 2004
From: cpl.19.ghum at spamgourmet.com (Harald Massa)
Date: Sat, 17 Apr 2004 09:57:05 +0200
Subject: Initializing Python in Optimized mode from C++
References: <dd7b0c71.0404161034.3173e132@posting.google.com>
	<4080635b$0$46515$39cecf19@news.twtelecom.net>
	<kS_fc.35827$vF3.2064041@news20.bellglobal.com>
Message-ID: <Xns94CE6547C1C35cpl19ghumspamgourmet@62.153.159.134>

> I was viewing this thread from Google groups and didn't see your
> response before I replied.  This is exactly what I was looking
> for...thanks!  Out of curiosity, what does the -OO flag do on top of
> the normal optimizations? 

Strip """
Doc-Strings 
"""

Harald


From asdf at asdf.com  Fri Apr 30 22:31:59 2004
From: asdf at asdf.com (asdf sdf)
Date: Sat, 01 May 2004 02:31:59 GMT
Subject: calling functions at the same time
In-Reply-To: <c6udda$qpv$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu>
References: <c6udda$qpv$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu>
Message-ID: <z_Dkc.43311$_Y4.15306@newssvr29.news.prodigy.com>

bart_nessux wrote:
> I need a script to call several functions at the same time. How does one 
> call more than one function simultaneously?
> 
> 
> 
i just added my first thread to a wxpython program today.  simple. in 
fact my first threaded program of any kind.

as indicated, threads might help you.  you didn't mention your platform 
but probably it has real thread support.  nevertheless, this might not 
be for you if you are running in a Unix environment with a 
multiprocessing (forking) program.

you launch your threads:

import thread

# create a lock you can use to block the threads until you are ready
mymutex = thread.allocate_lock()

def MyConcurrentFunction():
	# important concurrent stuff
	pass

def ThreadThing():
	# thread will hang on 'acquire' until mutex is released
	mymutex.acquire()
	# release lock for the next thread
	mymutex.release()
	# now do your stuff
	MyConcurrentFunction()

mymutex.acquire()
# launch your threads
thread.start_new_thread(ThreadThing, ())
thread.start_new_thread(ThreadThing, ())
thread.start_new_thread(ThreadThing, ())...
# your threads are all hung on the 'acquire' statement
# release the lock, unblocking the threads
mymutex.release()
# now all your threads are grabbing and releasing the mutex

# all done

I just made that whole thing up.  But i think that's more or less how 
you launch threads.

you have to consider that the thread may run as soon as you launch it. 
each thread could complete your special function before the rest of the 
threads get launched.

i think you address that problem by creating a mutex or semaphore that 
each thread must acquire before it can proceed.  That is, the thread 
will block (hang) waiting for the mutex to become available.  (think of 
a mutex as an abstract lock resource).  when all your threads are 
launched, the main program can release the mutex(es), unblocking the 
threads.  The threads will unhang, and do your concurrent thing, more or 
less concurrently.

Understand that concurrency is not guaranteed (as i understand it).  the 
   OS controls which thread runs when, and it is not deterministic.

you could use an list of mutexes, to get an iota more concurrency.

all this i learned this very day from Programming Python, pg 104. so 
take my advice with a shovel of salt.

but it sounds like the way to go to me.




From jjl at pobox.com  Sat Apr 17 18:30:48 2004
From: jjl at pobox.com (John J. Lee)
Date: 17 Apr 2004 23:30:48 +0100
Subject: Difficulty Finding Python Developers
References: <65cbc3dd.0404140641.3501fde8@posting.google.com>
	<5d83790c.0404150701.605782a7@posting.google.com>
	<roy-A17A1C.12565615042004@reader2.panix.com>
	<7xpta8hqe7.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<roy-A844BA.18263715042004@reader2.panix.com>
	<7xsmf4kbac.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<roy-B8AA1E.21270915042004@reader2.panix.com>
	<7x7jwg7ipn.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<GfSdnRKGHIm2_-LdRVn-gg@powergate.ca>
	<mailman.686.1082115401.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<D6idncWvro52euLdRVn-hg@powergate.ca>
Message-ID: <87vfjy5jaf.fsf@pobox.com>

Peter Hansen <peter at engcorp.com> writes:

> Fredrik Lundh wrote:
> 
> > Peter Hansen wrote.
> >
> >>>They're not, but the discussion was serious production projects.
> >>
> >>I thought the discussion was a 3-month project.  To me, that's
> >>definitely not something I would classify as a "serious production
> >>project".  I know, I know, the length alone shouldn't be enough
> >>to call it serious or production or not.  It's just not the term
> >>I would apply to something that short.  "Experiment", maybe, or
> >>"quickie", or "co-op student project" or something...
> 
> > hmm.  have I been posting to the wrong newsgroup?
> 
> Maybe, but not in this thread, so far, unless my news providers
> is dropping messages.
> 
> (I'm sure there's a subtle point you're making, but it's too
> subtle for my simple brain; forgive me.)
[...]

I assume Fredrik's point was that one can get a lot done in 3 months
with Python.


John


From sweeney.2 at wright.edu  Mon Apr  5 23:20:55 2004
From: sweeney.2 at wright.edu (Deacon Sweeney)
Date: Mon, 5 Apr 2004 23:20:55 -0400
Subject: tear-off buttons for Tkinter Text objects?
Message-ID: <c4t7mo$n2g$1@proxy1.wright.edu>

Hi. I've embedded some buttons in a Text object, and I would like these
buttons to perform a 'tear-off' of that line when clicked. That is, when the
button is clicked, I would like a new Toplevel to appear with a new Text
object which contains the text. Creating a 'pop-off' button, where the
Toplevel appears at some predetermined (or calculatable) point would be
easy, I'd just create the Toplevel, position it, and pass the info to it.
The difference would be that the 'tear-off' button would automatically
'grab' the new Toplevel so that it could be easily repositioned in the same
motion of the mouse.

There are three benefits to this that make it worthwhile. One, obviously
repositioning is one mouse click easier. Two, I'll also add code to dock the
lines, so re-docking a mistaken tear-off would be easier as well. Three, its
just cool.

So is there maybe some way to trick the window manager into thinking there's
been a mouse click? It would be easy enough to position the title bar of the
new Toplevel under the cursor. Or can the new window just be (magically)
bound to the cursor until the button-pressing click is released? Any help
would be appreciated.

Thanks,

Deacon Sweeney




From eltronic at juno.com  Tue Apr 13 11:50:33 2004
From: eltronic at juno.com (eltronic at juno.com)
Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2004 11:50:33 -0400
Subject: Making urllib2 work with proxy urls
Message-ID: <20040413.144604.-204255.0.eltronic@juno.com>

On 13 Apr 2004 04:51:56 -0700 pythonguy at Hotpop.com (Anand Pillai) writes:
> My company uses an automatic proxy configuration url of the form
> http://server.company.com/department/proxy.pac .
> 
I don't have a solution, but thanks for adding spaces after the url at
the end of a sentance.
why this convention is taking so long to catch on is a real puzzler.

could you not use another proxy to log & monitor the progress of your
connection?

e

________________________________________________________________
The best thing to hit the Internet in years - Juno SpeedBand!
Surf the Web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER!
Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today!



From has.temp2 at virgin.net  Fri Apr 30 05:15:27 2004
From: has.temp2 at virgin.net (has)
Date: 30 Apr 2004 02:15:27 -0700
Subject: What is good about Prothon?
References: <bniq80hiib0gauiltuntk9jvia2getbnj4@4ax.com>
	<nxdjc.400$Qy.363@fed1read04>
	<m0ps8092jss5mhpopkbj0a4hg0m0rlppqh@4ax.com>
	<vDvjc.5555$Qy.2995@fed1read04>
	<108t2tlo06j8vb9@corp.supernews.com>
	<hzwjc.6087$Qy.2366@fed1read04>
	<69cbbef2.0404281446.4e0ab52e@posting.google.com>
	<ZHXjc.17225$Qy.13377@fed1read04>
	<69cbbef2.0404291609.72d391db@posting.google.com>
	<c6sf29$fvhns$1@ID-169208.news.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <69cbbef2.0404300115.574d93e7@posting.google.com>

Greg Ewing <greg at cosc.canterbury.ac.nz> wrote in message news:<c6sf29$fvhns$1 at ID-169208.news.uni-berlin.de>...

> > # Create objects 'b' and 'c'
> > b = a()
> > c = a()
> 
> You've mistranslated your example. 

Not at all. I was arguing these issues long before Prothon got its
copy() method.  I'm aware of its recent addition, but it doesn't
really change anything: the canonical Prothon way to create new
objects is still b = a(), not b = a.copy().

[FWIW, at least Prothon's not as confusing as Io, whose misleadingly
named "clone()" doesn't in fact clone at all, but does the
make-new-empty-object-that-delegates-to-the-existing-one thing that
Prothon's __call__ does.]


Anyway, this leads me to my next question: how many ways should one
need to create new objects? I now count three in Prothon, which is
certainly one too many. And what's it going to do about it?

The art of great software design isn't adding features, it's getting
rid of them.


From rogerb at rogerbinns.com  Fri Apr 23 05:34:55 2004
From: rogerb at rogerbinns.com (Roger Binns)
Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2004 02:34:55 -0700
Subject: Multi-threaded printing and IOErrors in Windows
References: <10nll1-rt5.ln1@home.rogerbinns.com>
	<c6acl7$7u8$1@ctb-nnrp2.saix.net>
Message-ID: <ri4nl1-n9d.ln1@home.rogerbinns.com>

David Fraser wrote:
> sys.stdout is not threadsafe - try wrapping each call with a mutext and
> see if that fixes it...

Having to wrap hundreds of random print statements just using for
debugging seems really silly.  Note that I don't care if the
output gets garbled.  (It doesn't on Mac or Linux ever).

And I am only hitting this problem on Windows when wrapped
with py2exe.  If running outside of py2exe there is never
any problem.

When using py2exe, the stdout doesn't go anywhere anyway
(it is gui app not a console app).

The bizarre thing is that the IOError is very infrequent,
but very annoying when it happens.

Roger




From bram at nospam.sara.nl  Wed Apr 14 07:49:10 2004
From: bram at nospam.sara.nl (Bram Stolk)
Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2004 13:49:10 +0200
Subject: spherical coordinates
References: <20040414111334.34b5d225@pistache.sara.nl>
	<c5j28h$j3m$1@swifty.westend.com>
	<7x1xmqua94.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<dX8fc.587$lp3.280@fe2.texas.rr.com>
Message-ID: <20040414134910.5c4d9ec7@pistache.sara.nl>

On Wed, 14 Apr 2004 11:06:49 GMT
"Paul McGuire" <ptmcg at austin.rr._bogus_.com> wrote:


> 
> I can imagine that all these conversions could be a performance killer if
> done entirely in Python, and could stand to be done as a C extension.  This
> is probably why the OP was asking if such a package already exists.
> 

Well, performance is not my first concern.
I just want encapsulated classes for convenience, that handle all
sorts of spherical coordinate specifics.

For instance... interpolation between spherical coordinates. You can avoid
going to/from cartesian if you properly handle the wrap-around at 180 and 360
degrees.

Also, I want to be able to recursively subdivide the theta,phy space, and
do stratification in theta,phy space, and al sorts of other operations, on 
the surface of a given sphere.

An encapsulating class for these kind of coordinates would be a help, I
thought.

  Bram

-- 
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 Bram Stolk, VR Engineer.
 SARA Academic Computing Services Amsterdam, PO Box 94613, 1090 GP  AMSTERDAM
 email: bram at nospam.sara.nl   Phone +31-20-5923059  Fax +31-20-6683167

"For the costs of subsidized agriculture in the EU, we can have all 56 million
 European cows fly around the world. First Class." - J. Norberg
------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From dude at fastchevy.com  Wed Apr 21 16:52:33 2004
From: dude at fastchevy.com (Mike)
Date: 21 Apr 2004 13:52:33 -0700
Subject: CamelCase versus wide_names (Prothon)
References: <UHxfc.9323$dZ1.3740@fed1read04>
Message-ID: <6e0680ac.0404211252.7f7b4358@posting.google.com>

"Mark Hahn" <mark at prothon.org> wrote in message news:<UHxfc.9323$dZ1.3740 at fed1read04>...
> Of course in the Python world you alread have wide_names as your standard,
> but could you for the moment pretend you were picking your standard from
> scratch (as we are doing in the Prothon world) and give your vote for which
> you'd prefer?

Since Python has removed the need for the ';' character, how about
using that as a word separator? It's very easy to type, as it is right
next to the 'L' key on a qwerty keyboard.

Here;is;a;test;paragraph.;What;do;you;think?;Is;it;the;greatest;programming;language;invention;since;the
;curly;brace?

- Mike


From junkmail at solumslekt.org  Fri Apr  2 07:54:13 2004
From: junkmail at solumslekt.org (Leif B. Kristensen)
Date: Fri, 02 Apr 2004 14:54:13 +0200
Subject: Python conference slogan
References: <mailman.189.1080759511.20120.python-list@python.org>	<kmjsj1-89u.ln1@snout.lairds.org>	<c4glmq$j1i$1@swifty.westend.com>	<30260531.0404010833.1b834032@posting.google.com>	<406C4DDF.5000907@zope.com>
	<mailman.259.1080890435.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<c4jj1i$f6g$1@swifty.westend.com> <406D57FF.4040601@mplusr.de>
Message-ID: <Nldbc.4435$px6.64688@news2.e.nsc.no>

"Python - where whitespace matters"
"Python - king of the snake pit"

regards,
-- 
Leif Biberg Kristensen
http://solumslekt.org/
Validare necesse est


From reverse.ku.oc.issolok at nothypgnal.delrest.co.uk  Tue Apr 27 06:31:12 2004
From: reverse.ku.oc.issolok at nothypgnal.delrest.co.uk (Paul Sweeney)
Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2004 10:31:12 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Default Argument Inconsistency?
References: <c6l8sr$5sm$2@titan.btinternet.com>
	<c6laib$nra$05$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <c6lcpg$bvm$1@titan.btinternet.com>

That's a great gotcha!

The typo I knew about was that I should have had
    def f(a, L=None):

but as you point out also the 'if' should be more explicitly
    if L is None: L = []

As I said in reply to Diez, I'm new to Python and had switched
in general from my initial style of

  if L is None or L==[]:
to
  if not L:

which was clearly wrong here.  As always, "a little knowledge
is a dangerous thing" :-)


Thanks, (to me ;-) an interesting problem and explanations

Paul


"Peter Otten" <__peter__ at web.de> wrote...

> ... there is one pitfall that will sooner or later bite
> you:
>
> >>> def f(a, L=[]):
> ...     if not L: L = []
> ...     L.append(a)
> ...     return L
> ...
> >>> l1 = ["old"]
> >>> f("new", l1)
> ['old', 'new']
> >>> l1
> ['old', 'new']
> >>> l2 = []
> >>> f("new", l2)
> ['new']
> >>> l2
> []
> >>>
>
> Did you predict the values of l1 and l2 correctly? Congratulations.
> ...




From joe at notcharles.ca  Fri Apr 16 02:45:45 2004
From: joe at notcharles.ca (Joe Mason)
Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2004 06:45:45 GMT
Subject: [Newbie Q on String & List Manipulation]
References: <567a7c35.0404150247.7809bef5@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <slrnc7v07r.ark.joe@gate.notcharles.ca>

In article <567a7c35.0404150247.7809bef5 at posting.google.com>, Matthew wrote:
>     ok, seems quite ok, however, not sure why it doesn't work on
>     my silly Gmail script (pls refer to my script belows):
> 
>         for item in thecookies:
>             mycookies += item
> 
>         print mycookies
> 
>     i have exactly 4 items in the "thecookies" list, however, when
>     printing out "mycookies", it just show the last item (in fact,
>     seems the 4 items have been overlapped each others).

I had to comment out the SID and GV tests, because they kept failing,
but then I got:

['=en_CA; Expires=Sat, 16-Apr-05 06:35:14 GMT; Path=/\r',
'Session=en_CA\r']
Session=en_CAes=Sat, 16-Apr-05 06:35:14 GMT; Path=/

Note the "\r" at the end of each cookie.  That's carriage return, which
moves the cursor back to the beginning of the line.  mycookies actually
contains all the data you want, but the print statement interprets the
control character so they overwrite each other.

Tip for future debugging: you don't need to do "sys.exit" at the end.
It will automatically exit for you.  And if you don't do that, you can
run your script with "python -i" and get an interactive prompt when the
script is finished, so you can examine the variables directly instead of
going through print:

  >>> mycookies
  '=en_CA; Expires=Sat, 16-Apr-05 06:44:23 GMT; Path=/\rSession=en_CA\r'

Joe


From lbates at swamisoft.com  Tue Apr 20 16:37:59 2004
From: lbates at swamisoft.com (Larry Bates)
Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 15:37:59 -0500
Subject: Easily convert unicode tuple to python string tuple???
References: <mailman.802.1082474513.20120.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <5dmdnW0bd_C5FxjdRVn-vw@comcast.com>

I always just used:

myuTuple=(u'USER', u'NODE', u'HASH', u'IDNBR')

mysTuple=[str(x) for x in myuTuple]

Larry Bates
Syscon, Inc.

"Michal Mikolajczyk" <michal65 at hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:mailman.802.1082474513.20120.python-list at python.org...
> Is there a quick way to convert a unicode tuple to a tuple containing
python
> strings?
>
> (u'USER', u'NODE', u'HASH', u'IDNBR')
>
> to this:
>
> ('USER', 'NODE', 'HASH', 'IDNBR')
>
> I need to be able to do this for a lot of tuples, not just one.
>
> Thanks,
> Michael
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Watch LIVE baseball games on your computer with MLB.TV, included with MSN
> Premium!
>
http://join.msn.com/?page=features/mlb&pgmarket=en-us/go/onm00200439ave/direct/01/
>
>




From Mike at DeleteThis.Geary.com  Fri Apr  9 13:28:00 2004
From: Mike at DeleteThis.Geary.com (Michael Geary)
Date: Fri, 9 Apr 2004 10:28:00 -0700
Subject: Debugging extensions under VS .NET 2003
References: <c42b7031.0404090827.177bec2@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <107dn91j2908rce@corp.supernews.com>

Gus Tabares wrote:
> If you want to be able to debug your extensions, you will
> [need] to build a debug version of the Python interpreter.

I'm very curious about this: Can anyone explain why it is necessary? (And is
it *really* necessary?)

It's a very unusual requirement. In ordinary Windows coding, one DLL is
independent from another. You can mix and match debug and nondebug DLLs with
no problem.

For example, suppose you are developing an Adobe Acrobat plug-in. You don't
have a debug version of Acrobat nor debug versions of the other plug-ins and
DLLs that Acrobat uses. But that doesn't matter. You can still build a debug
version of your own plug-in.

For that matter, consider any ordinary Windows application or DLL. You don't
have debug versions of the numerous standard Windows DLLs that will be
loaded alongside your code. But that has no effect on whether you can debug
your own code or not.

So what's going on with Python that it would require a debug version of
pythonxx.dll in order to debug your own extension DLL?

Obviously, if you want to trace through the pythonxx.dll code, you'd want a
debug version of that code. Is that the reason?

Other than that, the only possible reason would be if there are #if's in the
Python headers that compile different and incompatible data structures or
APIs depending on whether DEBUG is defined. If that is the problem, you
could easily work around it by building a *release* version of your DLL, and
in your project settings turn off optimization and turn on symbols.

-Mike




From hoel at gl-group.com  Mon Apr  5 08:33:40 2004
From: hoel at gl-group.com (Berthold =?iso-8859-15?q?H=F6llmann?=)
Date: Mon, 05 Apr 2004 14:33:40 +0200
Subject: Embedding python in ANSYS: Anyone tried it?
Message-ID: <se1xn2sixn.fsf@pc020549.dhcp.germanlloyd.org>

Hello,

We are thinking about embedding python in ANSYS. We have lots of tools
written for howngrown FE programs which we woule like to see in
python. Is there anyone who has experience to share?

Kind regards
Berthold H?llmann
-- 
Dipl.-Ing. Berthold H?llmann   __   Address:
hoel at GL-Group.com           G /  \ L Germanischer Lloyd
phone: +49-40-36149-7374    -+----+- Vorsetzen 32/35    P.O.Box 111606
fax  : +49-40-36149-7320      \__/   D-20459 Hamburg    D-20416 Hamburg


From eppstein at ics.uci.edu  Fri Apr 30 01:00:18 2004
From: eppstein at ics.uci.edu (David Eppstein)
Date: Thu, 29 Apr 2004 22:00:18 -0700
Subject: Feedback on Sets, and Partitions
References: <mailman.136.1083282936.25742.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <eppstein-A8F4BF.22001829042004@news.service.uci.edu>

In article <mailman.136.1083282936.25742.python-list at python.org>,
 "Steve" <humean at fea.st> wrote:

> For my current project, I need to generate partitions of sets up to size
> 25. I am rather hopeless it will ever be feasible, and I have begun
> looking for a different approach. Thanks for any replies!

There are 4638590332229999353 partitions of an 25 item set.
<http://www.research.att.com/projects/OEIS?Anum=A000110>

So, I think generating them all is a little out of the question.

-- 
David Eppstein                      http://www.ics.uci.edu/~eppstein/
Univ. of California, Irvine, School of Information & Computer Science


From matthew at coredumps.net  Sat Apr 24 00:51:02 2004
From: matthew at coredumps.net (Matthew)
Date: 23 Apr 2004 21:51:02 -0700
Subject: [Newbie Q on String & List Manipulation]
References: <567a7c35.0404150247.7809bef5@posting.google.com>
	<slrnc7v07r.ark.joe@gate.notcharles.ca>
Message-ID: <567a7c35.0404232051.733c645d@posting.google.com>

Hello David &Joe,

   thanks very much for David's information about
   the "newline" and thanks very much for Joe's tips
   on sys.exit() and the "-i" parameter for debugging.

   =)

---
matthew


From OlafMeding at noSpam.compuserve.com  Tue Apr 13 20:39:40 2004
From: OlafMeding at noSpam.compuserve.com (Olaf Meding)
Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2004 19:39:40 -0500
Subject: Logging Stacktrace To File
References: <407bcbca$1_2@newspeer2.tds.net> <dxSec.627$2e6.217@lakeread01>
Message-ID: <407c8856$1_1@newspeer2.tds.net>

Thanks to all of you.

Olaf




From rogerb at rogerbinns.com  Sun Apr 18 00:31:07 2004
From: rogerb at rogerbinns.com (Roger Binns)
Date: Sat, 17 Apr 2004 21:31:07 -0700
Subject: Python Documentation Blows!
References: <40699A31.8000708@yahoo.com>
	<20040330161531.GA17112@vulcan.cprogrammer.org>
	<mailman.135.1080674367.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<86uu70phciv8arhieh3gv51dbf0i33f9ir@4ax.com>
	<cb035744.0404160616.b78f7c6@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <8tc9l1-4eb.ln1@home.rogerbinns.com>

Will Stuyvesant wrote:
> > [Terry Carroll]
> > The state of wxPython's documentation is the major factor that's kept
> > me from trying it.
>
> Short and elegant code examples.  Preferably about what you want to
> do.  That is always the kind of documentation I am looking for.

And the wxPython core ships with one which everyone seems to be
ignoring.  Run the demo!  It includes code that sets up every
control type, demonstrates threads, printing etc.  It hooks
into almost event type, and prints what you get.  The tabs
take you between a description of what is being shown, the
actual code, and it running.  I far prefer this over some
trivial examples in the doc.

Roger




From sean_berry at cox.net  Thu Apr 29 22:24:44 2004
From: sean_berry at cox.net (Sean Berry)
Date: Thu, 29 Apr 2004 19:24:44 -0700
Subject: How to read a file from another server?  Newbie
References: <%Oejc.16$ph.9@fed1read07>
	<9ugjc.3709$g31.1370@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net>
	<c6k9fh$3t9$1@bagan.srce.hr> <Yyjjc.2071$Jy3.1146@fed1read03>
	<v4hkc.4707$wY.813@nwrdny03.gnilink.net>
Message-ID: <BNikc.33253$Jy3.2239@fed1read03>

I have resolved the issue.  I am just going to run the cgi script from the
server the file is on.  If anyone out there is interested I am getting close
to finishing a script that does recursive digs for MX, A, and NS records for
a given domain, or list of domains.

Sean

"bobb" <rawbobb at hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:v4hkc.4707$wY.813 at nwrdny03.gnilink.net...
> Sean, what kind of server are you trying to get at  where the file exists?
>
> bobb
>
> "Sean Berry" <sean_berry at cox.net> wrote in message
> news:Yyjjc.2071$Jy3.1146 at fed1read03...
> > ssh I think.
> >
> >
> > "Ivan Voras" <ivoras at __geri.cc.fer.hr> wrote in message
> > news:c6k9fh$3t9$1 at bagan.srce.hr...
> > > Edward Diener wrote:
> > >
> > > > Sean Berry wrote:
> > > >
> > > >>I am trying to read in a file from another server.
> > > >>
> > > >>If I try
> > > >>x = open("servername:/path/to/file", "r")
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > x = open("servername://path/to/file", "r")
> > >
> > > Um, what does this to? What protocol does it use?
> >
> >
>
>




From aku at europe.com  Wed Apr  7 09:33:21 2004
From: aku at europe.com (aku)
Date: 07 Apr 2004 13:33:21 GMT
Subject: design by contract versus doctest
References: <407174ea$0$5066$4d4ebb8e@news.nl.uu.net>
	<4072977b$0$1699$afc38c87@news.easynet.co.uk>
	<4073c94a$0$5066$4d4ebb8e@news.nl.uu.net>
	<4073cf1b$0$18217$afc38c87@news.easynet.co.uk>
Message-ID: <40740321$0$5063$4d4ebb8e@news.nl.uu.net>

On 2004-04-07, Peter Hickman <peter at semantico.com> wrote:
>  aku wrote:
> > If someone deserves the title "father of DBC" it surely must
> > be E. W. Dijkstra, the one who teached me in college;)
> 
>  How come? This is obviously some bit of CS history I have missed, do tell.

Well, probably anyone back in those who also studied mathematics and 
computer science and took classes in mr Dijkstra's "programming 1" 
and "programming 2" will remember it. When I read "OO software construction" 
from B. Meyer years later - an excellent book btw - I think that, when 
I recall correctly, the author himself mention's  that DBC is squarely 
based on dijkstra's earlier theoretical basis.....
The funny thing is that in those times most students were wondering: 
How can this proof-that-a-program-does-what-it's-supposed-to-do thing 
ever be practically applied?  The real usefullness however only became 
clear to me more and more as the years went by.


From eastier at free.fr  Tue Apr 20 20:04:38 2004
From: eastier at free.fr (Emmanuel)
Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2004 02:04:38 +0200
Subject: Generator inside a class prevent __del__ ??
Message-ID: <4085BA96.651D2E4A@free.fr>

Hi,

I run across this problem, and couldn't find any solution (python 2.2.2)
:

Code :
===========
from __future__ import generators

>>> class titi:
            def __init__(self):
                print "init"
            def __del__(self):
                print "del"
            def Gen(self):
                yield 1

>>> c = titi()
init
>>> c = []
del
==============
Here, everything is normal...
But creating a generator :

Code :
===========

>>> class toto:
            def __init__(self):
                print "init"
                self.Coroutine = self.Gen()
            def __del__(self):
                print "del"
            def Gen(self):
                yield 1

>>> a = toto()
init
>>> c = []
                <--- Nothing there !!!
==============

I can't understand why the destructor is not called when a generator is
created, and what I should do to have a "correct" behavior.
(perhaps I missed something obvious, but I can't find it )
Thank you for any help,

Emmanuel






From tjreedy at udel.edu  Fri Apr  9 14:10:25 2004
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Fri, 9 Apr 2004 14:10:25 -0400
Subject: module not callable - why not?
References: <c56jph$rrk$05$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <c56ouf$o0u$1@sea.gmane.org>


"Diez B. Roggisch" <deetsNOSPAM at web.de> wrote in message
news:c56jph$rrk$05$1 at news.t-online.com...
> Hi,
>
> I just thought about creating a module for quaternions (as an personal
> exercise, so I'm not after pointers to classlibs here).
>
> Now usually I'd create a file called "quaternion.py", define my
quaternion
> class in there and then import and create an instance like this:
>
> import quaternion
> q = quaternion.quaternion()
>
> Thats a lot to type. doing a

which is why I might add 'as q' to the import

> from quaternion import quaternion
> would solve that - but AFAIK thats considered bad for some reasons.

By who?  and why would you let whoever override your preference ;-)
I have only read suggestions that one be careful with from x import *.

> Now my question is: Is there a way to make a module callable that way?

No.  And I believe Guido has said he doesn't want modules to be classes, or
more classlike.

 >And wouldn't it make sense to allow the implementation
> of a call operator on module level?

To you it seems to ;-)

Terry J. Reedy






From cgsex68 at hotmail.com  Fri Apr  2 06:15:34 2004
From: cgsex68 at hotmail.com (test test)
Date: Fri, 02 Apr 2004 11:15:34 +0000
Subject: configuring ODBC DSN with a python script
Message-ID: <BAY9-F64z1WndU0082Q0006a2ad@hotmail.com>

An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/attachments/20040402/6bc60d68/attachment.html>

From Mike at DeleteThis.Geary.com  Fri Apr 30 17:26:53 2004
From: Mike at DeleteThis.Geary.com (Michael Geary)
Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2004 14:26:53 -0700
Subject: Simple prototyping in Python
References: <slrnc938vm.1v0.ramen@lackingtalent.com>
	<69cbbef2.0404300855.20dd436b@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <1095h4vc89hmcf@corp.supernews.com>

> Dave Benjamin wrote:
> > JavaScript has a syntax for this:
> >
> > var o = {a: 5, b: 6}

has wrote:
> Looks on the surface like AppleScript's record type, which
> is roughly analogous to C structs... and useless for anything
> more than struct-style usage. While I did read about JS
> programming in the dim-n-distant past - it was one of a
> number of languages I looked at when learning proto-OO
> on AS, which lacked any decent learning material on the
> topic - I've pretty much forgotten everything since. So can
> I ask: is the JS structure more flexible; e.g. can one add
> functions to it to operate like methods on the other data in
> the structure? Or does it have to provide a second structure
> for proto-OO use, as AS does?

A JavaScript object literal is simply a convenient way to construct an
object. You can put anything in that object that you can put in any other
object.

This object literal:

var o = { a: 5, b: 6 }

is just a shorthand for:

var o = new Object
o.a = 5
o.b = 6

In fact, if you do o.toSource() after either of those, you'll get the same
result:

({a:5, b:6})

As with any other object, you can put functions as well as data in an object
literal, e.g.:

var o =
{
    a: 5,
    incr: function() { return ++this.a },
}

o.incr() will return 6, 7, 8, etc. if you call it repeatedly.

As Dave mentioned, you can also use closures, as in this example which uses
both a closure and a property in the object literal:

function F()
{
    var c = 105;

    return {
        a: 5,
        incr: function() { return [ ++this.a, ++c ] },
    }
}

var x = new F
var y = new F
x.incr()
y.incr()

-Mike




From beliavsky at 127.0.0.1  Fri Apr 30 15:45:41 2004
From: beliavsky at 127.0.0.1 (beliavsky@aol.com)
Date: 30 Apr 2004 14:45:41 -0500
Subject: Numeric speed
Message-ID: <4092ace5_1@news.binaries.net>


I have been looking at the speed of Python with the Numeric module by simulating
some random numbers and computing some statistics. Here is the code. Line
(1) is replaced as shown
in the table.

from RandomArray import random
from Numeric     import sum
n  = 1000000
m  = 10
for i in range(m):
    xx = random(n)
    print xx[n-1]  # (1) 

The times shown are in seconds and are the lowest values from several runs.

line (1)             Python  Fortran    
xx[n-1]                 1.33   0.52     
sum(xx)                 1.43   0.54     
sum(xx**1)              3.76   0.54     
sum(xx**2)              3.71   0.54     
sum with explicit loop 11.79   0.54    

My conclusions are that
(1) Using the sum function of Numeric is much faster than an explicit loop.
(2) Python with Numeric does not recognize that sum(xx**1) reduces
to sum(xx), and this should be fixed. Obviously one would not write xx**1
explicitly in code, but it is possible that a variable exponent could equal
1.
(3) The range of Fortran/Python speeds here is 2.5 to 7.0, when the Numeric
module is used.

The Fortran code is below. Line (1) is replaced as appropriate. The Python

version is 2.3.3 , the Fortran compiler is Compaq Visual Fortran 6.6c, and
the platform is an Intel Pentium 4 2.80 GHz on Windows XP.
 
program xran_sum
integer, parameter :: n = 1000000, m = 10
real               :: xx(n)
integer            :: i
call random_seed()
do i=1,m
   call random_number(xx)
   print*,xx(n) ! (1)
end do
end program xran_sum



From mark at prothon.org  Fri Apr 30 14:46:25 2004
From: mark at prothon.org (Mark Hahn)
Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2004 11:46:25 -0700
Subject: Why we will use obj$func() often
References: <d2Uhc.22272$dZ1.1600@fed1read04> <40887145.789A2FE8@alcyone.com>
	<7cki80hj976bia36lhf9er97v073o1pqvm@4ax.com>
	<w8dic.28710$dZ1.11206@fed1read04> <ulXiAls/KH1K089yn@the-wire.com>
	<lkfic.29767$dZ1.17301@fed1read04>
	<donn-66132E.15345723042004@nntp3.u.washington.edu>
	<PLhic.30493$dZ1.22063@fed1read04> <1082783076.585831@yasure>
	<Tunic.32387$dZ1.12932@fed1read04>
	<c6hvdk$bs63j$1@ID-169208.news.uni-berlin.de>
	<SN%ic.37580$dZ1.14964@fed1read04>
	<c6kajs$cgj7g$1@ID-169208.news.uni-berlin.de>
	<e838aa6e.0404300558.2db11196@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <M8xkc.44103$Qy.17351@fed1read04>

A. Lloyd Flanagan wrote:

> Actually, when I tried the code I got a NameError.  I don't see why I
> would want to access a variable defined in an inner scope from an
> outer scope; this seems like a great way to clutter up the namespace
> and confuse the issue of what the variable actually refers to.

I assume you are talking about running that code in Python after removing
the & from &x?

That was supposed to be Prothon code that somehow defined x in function f
from the statement &x = 42, even though that statement was in the inner
function h.  The equivalent python code would have the statement x = 42
inside the function f.  Greg was asking if I was claiming that Prothon could
do this "magic" somehow from function h (which Prothon cannot).

We were always talking about an x local to f being referred to in h.




From newsgroups at jhrothjr.com  Tue Apr  6 18:49:23 2004
From: newsgroups at jhrothjr.com (John Roth)
Date: Tue, 6 Apr 2004 18:49:23 -0400
Subject: what is happening here?
References: <c4vaum$q39$1@nntp.ece.cmu.edu>
Message-ID: <1076d2psj7qde2f@news.supernews.com>


"dan miller (moderator, s.p.d)" <danbmil at cmu.edu> wrote in message
news:c4vaum$q39$1 at nntp.ece.cmu.edu...
> trying to figure out scoping of 'globals' in modules.  So I have test.py:
>
> glob = 1
>
> def setglob(v):
>    global glob
>    glob = v
>
> def getglob():
>    return glob
>
>
> and I do this:
>
>  >>> from test import *
>  >>> glob
> 1
>  >>> getglob()
> 1
>  >>> glob=2
>  >>> glob
> 2
>  >>> getglob()
> 1
>  >>> setglob(3)
>  >>> getglob()
> 3
>  >>> glob
> 2
>
>
> Seems to me like the first time I invoke glob, it creates a new global
> in my namespace, and initializes it to the value of the glob in test.py.
>     Seems counterintuitive!

Sure seems wierd. What it looks like to me is that
your import is binding three objects, but the actual
functions are still refering to whatever object is bound
in the "test" module, not in the interpreter's namespace.
In other words, they are using the global dictionary
they were compiled with, not their caller's global
dictionary.

Make sense?

John Roth
>




From mcfletch at rogers.com  Fri Apr 23 14:50:15 2004
From: mcfletch at rogers.com (Mike C. Fletcher)
Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2004 14:50:15 -0400
Subject: Why we will use obj$func() often
In-Reply-To: <sXcic.28630$dZ1.20194@fed1read04>
References: <d2Uhc.22272$dZ1.1600@fed1read04><84Uhc.22278$dZ1.5087@fed1read04>	<mailman.927.1082665370.20120.python-list@python.org><8AWhc.23114$dZ1.11070@fed1read04>	<mailman.939.1082697809.20120.python-list@python.org><no4ic.26268$dZ1.11413@fed1read04>	<mailman.948.1082710758.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<sXcic.28630$dZ1.20194@fed1read04>
Message-ID: <40896567.6060806@rogers.com>

Mark Hahn wrote:

>"Mike C. Fletcher" <mcfletch at rogers.com> wrote ...
>
>  
>
>>$ is basically a character as far as glyphs go, it's a
>>full-height glyph with ascenders and descenders, is very similar to a
>>capital S, and generally makes reading code much harder as it obscures
>>word-shape; .this or even self.this is much easier to read because you
>>can pick out the words using your learned vocabulary of word-shapes.
>>    
>>
>
>Well I have a problem now.  I gave people on my mailing list a choice
>between $var, `var, ~var,  and ^var.  The current tally is four votes for
>$var and none for any of the others.  According to your criteria, $var is
>the worst and ~var should be the best.  Am I correct?
>  
>
Depends on the font ;) .  Certainly $ is going to have the most 
(negative) impact on readability, but the other three are all basically 
lightweight enough that they don't read as characters (basically any 
glyph that fills the same space as a lower-case o is going to markedly 
change the shape of a word.  ` is the least likely to be read as a 
character, but is really hard to distinguish from ', so likely not a 
great choice.  ^ doesn't occupy the middle space, so doesn't get read as 
a character either.  ~ doesn't read as one either because it doesn't 
touch the baseline.

$, however, is going to be familiar to your PERL aficionados, and 
familiarity counts a lot for those who are familiar with it, regardless 
of whether it's technically easier to read.  The other three are 
basically just arbitrary punctuation, so people don't have any 
associations built up with them (they don't look at them and 
automatically think "attribute access").  The dot character does have 
lots of attribute-access associations; hence a leading dot (which 
doesn't read as a character) will tend to test favourably on both scales 
(practical and familiar).

Have fun,
Mike

_______________________________________
  Mike C. Fletcher
  Designer, VR Plumber, Coder
  http://members.rogers.com/mcfletch/





From siggy2 at supereva.it  Fri Apr  2 05:04:01 2004
From: siggy2 at supereva.it (PiErre)
Date: 2 Apr 2004 02:04:01 -0800
Subject: win32all 162 installation error [dr watson]
Message-ID: <33a15593.0404020204.688b85df@posting.google.com>

Hi All,
   I am trying to install win32 extension 162 on python 2.2.3 on a
virtual
(vmware) machine with win2k server sp3 (but I tested that the same
happens
on either win2k sp2 or win2ksp3 on a real biprocessor). I keep getting
the drwatson error reported below during win32all 162 installation 
(during the compiling step, near the end of the progression bar - it
can pass unnotice, but some symptoms are that you don't 
have a finish button - just the installation window abruptly
disappears
and if you try to uninstall win32all you get an error about 
missing INSTALL.LOG).
I read somewhere that it could be related with a windows error 
registering the activex script engine (that actually is also the 
last info message that appears above the compiling progression bar
before
the crash). Anyway since we don't care for activex script and I had to
ship the win32all installer in a big installshield setup kit for our 
clients I am not looking for a workaround: my main concern is how to 
avoid this error to show up in the event viewer or on drwtsn32...
TIA!
bye,
   PiErre






Application exception occurred:
        App:  (pid=1236)
        When: 4/2/2004 @ 10:49:17.900
        Exception number: c0000005 (access violation)

*----> System Information <----*
        Computer Name: NVS
        User Name: Administrator
        Number of Processors: 1
        Processor Type: x86 Family 15 Model 2 Stepping 9
        Windows 2000 Version: 5.0
        Current Build: 2195
        Service Pack: 3
        Current Type: Uniprocessor Free
        Registered Organization: our company
        Registered Owner: our owner

*----> Task List <----*
   0 Idle.exe
   8 System.exe
 172 SMSS.exe
 200 CSRSS.exe
 224 WINLOGON.exe
 252 SERVICES.exe
 264 LSASS.exe
 376 termsrv.exe
 480 svchost.exe
 504 spoolsv.exe
 532 msdtc.exe
 636 svchost.exe
 656 LLSSRV.exe
 700 regsvc.exe
 708 mstask.exe
 792 VMwareService.e.exe
 824 WinMgmt.exe
 856 svchost.exe
 876 dfssvc.exe
 896 inetinfo.exe
1244 svchost.exe
 844 explorer.exe
1224 VMwareTray.exe
1100 wuauclt.exe
1312 mmc.exe
1236 win32all-162.ex.exe
 516 DRWTSN32.exe
   0 _Total.exe

(00400000 - 00407000) 
(77F80000 - 77FFB000) 
(77E80000 - 77F36000) 
(77E10000 - 77E75000) 
(77F40000 - 77F7C000) 
(77DB0000 - 77E0D000) 
(77D30000 - 77DA1000) 
(10000000 - 1002B000) 
(76B30000 - 76B6D000) 
(77C70000 - 77CBA000) 
(77B50000 - 77BD9000) 
(782F0000 - 78536000) 
(78000000 - 78046000) 
(77820000 - 77827000) 
(759B0000 - 759B6000) 
(76620000 - 76630000) 
(77570000 - 775A0000) 
(76B20000 - 76B25000) 
(772B0000 - 7731C000) 
(77A50000 - 77B45000) 
(779B0000 - 77A4B000) 
(775A0000 - 77625000) 
(75A00000 - 75A13000) 
(76710000 - 76719000) 
(76FA0000 - 76FAF000) 
(773E0000 - 773F5000) 
(75170000 - 751BF000) 
(77BE0000 - 77BEF000) 
(751C0000 - 751C6000) 
(75150000 - 75160000) 
(75030000 - 75043000) 
(75020000 - 75028000) 
(77950000 - 7797A000) 
(77980000 - 779A4000) 
(75050000 - 75058000) 
(00F60000 - 00F67000) 
(1E000000 - 1E0D1000) 
(1E200000 - 1E211000) 
(1E600000 - 1E613000) 
(1E340000 - 1E396000) 
(1E790000 - 1E7A3000) 
(1E1E0000 - 1E1ED000) 

State Dump for Thread Id 0x270

eax=00000000 ebx=00000000 ecx=1e0a4660 edx=00000000 esi=1e0a4660
edi=00000000
eip=1e03a73a esp=0012cc2c ebp=018def90 iopl=0         nv up ei ng nz
na po cy
cs=001b  ss=0023  ds=0023  es=0023  fs=0038  gs=0000            
efl=00000287


function: PyNode_Future
        1e03a72a 90               nop
        1e03a72b 90               nop
        1e03a72c 90               nop
        1e03a72d 90               nop
        1e03a72e 90               nop
        1e03a72f 90               nop
        1e03a730 8b4c2404         mov     ecx,[esp+0x4]         
ss:0094a1ff=????????
        1e03a734 8b01             mov     eax,[ecx]             
ds:1e0a4660=014f0d60
        1e03a736 3bc1             cmp     eax,ecx
        1e03a738 740c             jz      PyInt_FromUnicode+0x1d6
(1e043246)
FAULT ->1e03a73a 8b5010           mov     edx,[eax+0x10]        
ds:0081d5d2=326e6f68
        1e03a73d 895008           mov     [eax+0x8],edx         
ds:0081d5d2=326e6f68
        1e03a740 8b00             mov     eax,[eax]             
ds:00000000=????????
        1e03a742 3bc1             cmp     eax,ecx
        1e03a744 75f4             jnz     PyLong_AsUnsignedLong+0x4a
(1e046b3a)
        1e03a746 c3               ret
        1e03a747 90               nop
        1e03a748 90               nop
        1e03a749 90               nop
        1e03a74a 90               nop
        1e03a74b 90               nop
        1e03a74c 90               nop

*----> Stack Back Trace <----*

FramePtr ReturnAd Param#1  Param#2  Param#3  Param#4  Function Name
018DEF90 0012D044 01400E48 011E9CF8 01826198 011E9D90 !PyNode_Future 
00000001 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 <nosymbols> 

*----> Raw Stack Dump <----*
0012cc2c  5b a5 03 1e 60 46 0a 1e - 00 00 00 00 90 ef 8d 01 
[...`F..........
0012cc3c  00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 - 00 00 00 00 ec da 81 00 
................
0012cc4c  10 fb 09 1e 00 00 00 00 - d2 96 27 01 e0 ff 12 00 
..........'.....
0012cc5c  b8 ff 00 78 38 32 03 78 - ff ff ff ff 90 ef 8d 01 
...x82.x........
0012cc6c  45 10 00 78 20 00 00 00 - f7 b0 03 1e 60 46 0a 1e  E..x
.......`F..
0012cc7c  70 46 0a 1e a8 68 37 01 - d9 af 03 1e f0 b0 0a 1e 
pF...h7.........
0012cc8c  0d b1 03 1e f0 b0 0a 1e - 00 00 00 00 d0 68 37 01 
.............h7.
0012cc9c  73 47 04 1e f0 b0 0a 1e - ec da 81 00 d0 68 37 01 
sG...........h7.
0012ccac  00 00 00 00 e3 21 07 1e - 00 00 00 00 c8 96 27 01 
.....!........'.
0012ccbc  c8 65 8c 01 90 ef 8d 01 - c8 96 27 01 e0 32 02 1e 
.e........'..2..
0012cccc  90 ef 8d 01 c8 96 27 01 - 03 01 00 00 53 00 00 00 
......'.....S...
0012ccdc  90 ef 8d 01 03 00 00 00 - 48 0e 40 01 95 37 02 1e 
........H. at ..7..
0012ccec  90 ef 8d 01 c8 96 27 01 - 03 01 00 00 53 00 00 00 
......'.....S...
0012ccfc  90 ef 8d 01 c0 06 4f 01 - 90 ef 8d 01 c8 96 27 01 
......O.......'.
0012cd0c  02 00 00 00 90 ef 8d 01 - f8 28 1b 01 03 00 00 00 
.........(......
0012cd1c  3c 00 00 00 4c 39 02 1e - 90 ef 8d 01 ac 3c 04 01 
<...L9.......<..
0012cd2c  90 ef 8d 01 d8 4e f9 00 - 10 68 37 01 00 00 00 00 
.....N...h7.....
0012cd3c  6a 38 02 1e 90 ef 8d 01 - f8 28 1b 01 90 ef 8d 01 
j8.......(......
0012cd4c  10 68 37 01 3c 01 00 00 - 40 00 00 00 90 ef 8d 01 
.h7.<... at .......
0012cd5c  18 8a 1c 01 0b 00 00 00 - dc 00 00 00 4c 39 02 1e 
............L9..


From no.email at please.com  Mon Apr 12 15:13:09 2004
From: no.email at please.com (Stevie_mac)
Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2004 20:13:09 +0100
Subject: String + number split
References: <2SAec.70005$Id.6002@news-binary.blueyonder.co.uk>
	<YjBec.70215$Id.61871@news-binary.blueyonder.co.uk>
Message-ID: <WSBec.70431$Id.61446@news-binary.blueyonder.co.uk>

now thats what im talking about!
note to self, learn reg exp!

Thing is, dont understand it one bit! any chance you comment it!  (tell me where to go if you want!) I'd appreciate it
if you could - ta.

"Graham Breed" <usenet at microtonal.co.uk> wrote in message news:YjBec.70215$Id.61871 at news-binary.blueyonder.co.uk...
> Stevie_mac wrote:
>
> > Hello again, I can do this, but I'm sure there is a much more elegant way...
> >
> > A string, with a number on the end, strip off the number & discard any underscores
> >
> > eg...
> >
> > font12        becomes         ('font',12)
> > arial_14      becomes        ('arial',14)
>
> Hmm, well, there's always
>
>  >>> import re
>  >>> def fsplit(s):
> matcher = re.compile('\d+$|_')
> return matcher.sub('', s), int(matcher.findall(s)[-1])
>
>  >>> fsplit('font12')
> ('font', 12)
>  >>> fsplit('arial14')
> ('arial', 14)
>  >>> fsplit('__arial__bold_1_14')
> ('arialbold1', 14)
>
> I'm scary enough that I probably would do it this way.
>
>
>                 Graham




From derek at hiredgoons.org  Wed Apr  7 11:12:47 2004
From: derek at hiredgoons.org (Derek Thomson)
Date: Thu, 08 Apr 2004 01:12:47 +1000
Subject: Are line continuations needed?
In-Reply-To: <c514ft$bno$1@news.wrc.xerox.com>
References: <407409ef.82801353@news.eircom.net>
	<40740f99@duster.adelaide.on.net> <c514ft$bno$1@news.wrc.xerox.com>
Message-ID: <40741b6e$1@duster.adelaide.on.net>

Mark Jackson wrote:
> 
> This ought to work:
> 
> class ParticleDistributionBehaviorServer(
>            Microphysics__POA.ParticleDistributionBehavior):
> 

In fact it does work - I should have thought of that. I've just checked 
in the change to CVS. Thanks!

Now I'll have to think of another case ... I'm sure there was another ...

Regards,
Derek.


From claird at lairds.com  Wed Apr 28 07:59:03 2004
From: claird at lairds.com (Cameron Laird)
Date: Wed, 28 Apr 2004 11:59:03 -0000
Subject: Is Perl *that* good?
References: <c6ich0$c5mee$1@ID-205437.news.uni-berlin.de>
	<ECCjc.30580$Vp5.25085@fe2.columbus.rr.com>
	<roy-15912E.20355127042004@reader2.panix.com>
	<XwEjc.31513$Vp5.16074@fe2.columbus.rr.com>
Message-ID: <108v74768o9sb9f@corp.supernews.com>

In article <XwEjc.31513$Vp5.16074 at fe2.columbus.rr.com>,
Carl Banks  <imbosol at aerojockey.invalid> wrote:
			.
			.
			.
>If you do stuff recursively (as I often do) or break up code into
>smaller functions (as I often do) so that the functions with these
>regexps get called numerous times, it can help performance to move the
>compile step out of the functions.
>
>The point is, the existence re.compile encourages people to make
>regexp objects global so they only need to be compiled once, when the
>module is loaded.  Because of this, and especially because regexps are
>prone to being used in recursive functions and such, it's dangerous to
>allow them to have state.
			.
			.
			.
I wrote the subject line for this subthread.  Here's
my provisional conclusion:  my past attempts to track
down claims of the "Perl is tops for string-handling"
sort generally reinforced the proposition that the
speaker simply meant, "Perl privileges REs" (and that
the speaker had no familiarity with Python, let alone
Icon or Prolog).  Now I see there's a likelihood of
definite attraction to the hidden-variable, dangerous
implicitness goop so characteristic of Perl.  That's
good to understand.  Thanks, Carl; good analysis.
-- 

Cameron Laird <claird at phaseit.net>
Business:  http://www.Phaseit.net


From johnbunderwood at yahoo.ca  Mon Apr  5 16:38:08 2004
From: johnbunderwood at yahoo.ca (John Underwood)
Date: Mon, 05 Apr 2004 16:38:08 -0400
Subject: Using python23 to develop an extension for an application that
	has python22 embedded
References: <aoa370h2r58lgb00jn9o1nfpg2titdgoss@4ax.com>
	<1073eeubflmchd5@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <o2g3709fpgp50sn561h0vf5e2dd6hcuo7g@4ax.com>

On Mon, 5 Apr 2004 12:56:14 -0700, "Michael Geary"
<Mike at DeleteThis.Geary.com> wrote:

>John Underwood wrote:
>> Can I use python23_d and python23 to develop an extension for a
>> commercial application uses python22.dll? (Providing that I do not use
>> any new features found only in 2.3.)
>>
>> I would bulld version 2.2 but I am having trouble doing this with
>> Visual Studio .NET Standard. (There is a well documented problem with
>> version 2.2 (involving largeint.h) and VS.NET but none of the
>> solutions that I found have worked.)
>>
>> On the other hand, I have successfully built release and debug
>> versions of pythoncore with VS.NET.
>
>Why don't you just install the binary version of 2.2? That would be easier.
>You can have 2.2 and 2.3 installed on the same machine with no problem.
>
>http://www.python.org/2.2.3/
>
>If 2.3 is the version you use most often, you may want to reinstall it after
>installing 2.2, so that your Windows file associations point to it. You can
>just reinstall 2.3 on top of your previous 2.3 installation. (Or maybe
>there's an easier way to do this.)
>
>-Mike
>

I have both 2.2 and 2.3 installed on my computer. My problem has to do
with Visual Studio .NET which will build 2.3 but will not build 2.2.
(MS removed largeint.h which is required by pythoncore in 2.2 when
they went from Visual C++ 6 to VS.NET. I tried supplying largeint.h to
VS.NET but that did not work.)

Since I cannot build 2.2, I do not have python22.dll or python22_d.dll
(the debug version). (They are not shipped with python you have to
produce them yourself.)

The commercial application to which I need to add an extension has
python22.dll in its runtime folder. I have no control over this
application and have to use whichever version they have chosen.

Since I do have python23.dll and python23_d.dll (from a successful
build of 2.3), can I use these to develop an extension for the
aforementioned commercial application if I stay away from any new
features in 2.3 (but not in 2.2)?

-John



From garryknight at gmx.net  Wed Apr 14 16:36:50 2004
From: garryknight at gmx.net (Garry Knight)
Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2004 21:36:50 +0100
Subject: Difficulty Finding Python Developers
References: <65cbc3dd.0404140641.3501fde8@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.619.1081956829.20120.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1081975009.10988.2@ersa.uk.clara.net>

In message <mailman.619.1081956829.20120.python-list at python.org>, Mike C.
Fletcher wrote:

>       I'm an alumni, so UofW is obviously not all it's cracked up to be ;)

Apparently not. 'Alumni' is the plural form. You're an alumnus.  :o)

-- 
Garry Knight
garryknight at gmx.net  ICQ 126351135
Linux registered user 182025


From FBatista at uniFON.com.ar  Tue Apr 27 14:03:19 2004
From: FBatista at uniFON.com.ar (Batista, Facundo)
Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2004 15:03:19 -0300
Subject: Tkinter vs. wxPython?
Message-ID: <A128D751272CD411BC9200508BC2194D03383908@escpl.tcp.com.ar>

[SeeBelow at SeeBelow.Nut]

#- I ask because I have just started learning Tkinter, and I wonder if I
#- should abandon it in favor of wxPython.  

I'm in the self dilemma.

I wrote a small application in wxPython, then I searched something more
"natural". I found Tkinter, and I'm pleased with it.

But, I read somewhere that Tkinter is simpler, but difficult so make big
complicated stuff. wxPython is more difficult at start, but more scalable.

And I read Alex Martelli saying that Tkinter is easier and simpler, but if
you want to write "big commercial" applications, you'll prefer wxPython
(well, actually don't remember if those are his words, but I got that idea).

So, I'm writing a small (but professional) application in Tkinter. And then
I'll write it in wxPython. Then I'll decide in what I'll wrote a bigger
application I'm building.

.	Facundo





. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
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Todas las opiniones contenidas en este mail son propias del autor del
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From piedmontbiz at aol.com  Sun Apr 11 17:07:07 2004
From: piedmontbiz at aol.com (PiedmontBiz)
Date: 11 Apr 2004 21:07:07 GMT
Subject: Python is the best and most popular general purpose scripting
References: <mailman.525.1081698252.20120.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <20040411170707.13360.00000139@mb-m18.aol.com>

> You're defining it in terms of itself; what is scripting?  The use of
>> scripting languages, or the accomplishment of tasks quickly and
>> easily?  Some would argue the latter can be done with programming
>> languages.
>
>Scripting is the gluing together of components potentially written in a 
>variety of languages.
>
>> # A programming language is a language that makes programming (including 
>> # the creation of components) easy.
>> 
>> By this metric many languages are both, since the definition is
>> subjective.
>
>Yes. The term is both historical and subjective. If you try to draw any 
>line in the sand you will find outliers like Lisp and even Java (which 
>is bytecode interpreted just as Python is) will cause you problems. 
>There are compilers for Python and interpreters for C.
>
>  Paul Prescod
>

I have the answer. Scripts are concatenated sequences of instructions to the
computer operating system to perfom a certain task. The script I create for my
own purposes and my own personal use (or my work group) will always be known as
a script.
If my script is needed and used by others (outside my workgroup), it will now
be called an application. The source code of applications is not changed by the
user.
My script is subject to refinements as required to suit my needs. If the user
of an application needs the app to be modified, he must go to a programmer who
then makes the changes to the script. The modified script is then given back to
the user as an modified application.

I am working on the chicken and egg thing also.


Here is an overview of JCL.
This is the archetypical scripting language perhaps.
=====================
http://www.okstate.edu/cis_info/cis_manual/jcl_over.html

What is JCL?
Job Control Language (JCL) is a means of communicating with the IBM 3090 MVS
Operating System. JCL statements provide information that the operating system
needs to execute a job. 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
------
A job is something that you want to accomplish with the aid of a mainframe
computer, e.g. copy a data set, execute a program, or process multiple job
steps. You need to supply the information that the job requires and instruct
the computer what to do with this information. You do this with JCL statements.
A job step consists of statements that control the execution of a program or
procedure, request resources, and define input and/or output. 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
------
This includes information about:

the program or procedure to be executed 
input data 
output data 
output reports 
A JCL statement also provides information about who the job belongs to and
which account to charge for the job. 
========


allen


From OlafMeding at noSpam.compuserve.com  Tue Apr 27 18:05:25 2004
From: OlafMeding at noSpam.compuserve.com (Olaf Meding)
Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2004 17:05:25 -0500
Subject: MS COM early and late binding
References: <9e5ea2c4.0404271039.2da829b5@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.57.1083092797.25742.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <408ed8e5$1_1@newspeer2.tds.net>

Thomas

What you suggest might work, but does not look to elegant.  Can anyone else
perhaps suggest a more elegant solution?  Thanks.

Olaf


try:
    excel.visible
except AttributeError:
    print "late bound"
else:
    print "early bound"

Hint: Attributes are case sensitive when early bound ;-)







From me at privacy.net  Thu Apr  8 04:42:07 2004
From: me at privacy.net (Duncan Booth)
Date: 8 Apr 2004 08:42:07 GMT
Subject: Pyrex list is down
References: <mailman.316.1081033683.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<74jek1-3qs.ln1@snout.lairds.org>
Message-ID: <Xns94C5612F230B4duncanrcpcouk@127.0.0.1>

Kyler Laird <Kyler at news.Lairds.org> wrote in news:74jek1-
3qs.ln1 at snout.lairds.org:

> Paul Prescod <paul at prescod.net> writes:
> 
>>It seems like nothing has gone in or out for days:
> 
>>http://lists.copyleft.no/pipermail/pyrex/2004-April/thread.html
> 
> I hate mailing lists anyway.  I'd much rather use Usenet.

So why don't you just run a local news-server and filter any mailing list 
messages through to locally generated newsgroups? That's what I do: I'm a 
windows user so I use Hamster to amalgamate several external news servers 
and all my mailing lists into a single local news server.


From edwardt_tril at yahoo.com  Mon Apr  5 13:27:32 2004
From: edwardt_tril at yahoo.com (ed)
Date: 5 Apr 2004 10:27:32 -0700
Subject: Registry Key extraction and migration
Message-ID: <7d7e723a.0404050927.12611c86@posting.google.com>

Hi I want to write a tool to do the following:
1. extract and display registry keys under abritrary starting point,
for example:
source are: HKey_Local_machine\software\old_lcoation or
HKey_current_user\software\XXX\YYY

a) then, I can specify where the Keys can be copied and compare the
new location to the new location. For example: destination are:
HKEY_local_mahcine\software\New_location.

b) if the keys are not there flags error message

how canI do that?


From uzairaqeel at yahoo.com  Thu Apr 22 02:23:13 2004
From: uzairaqeel at yahoo.com (Uzair)
Date: 21 Apr 2004 23:23:13 -0700
Subject: Naming conventions
Message-ID: <5a88ee0a.0404212223.15f50fe9@posting.google.com>

Why aren't the names of the modules in the standard library fixed so
that they follow some actual naming convention? That is probably the
biggest deterrent for new users -- having to dig through several
sources to find the module they're interested in. And, as with urllib
and urllib2, it isn't even clear at first glance which is more useful
and when it should be used...

Just curious...I've read a lot about the Python community's collective
determination to maintain the purity of the language and ease-of-use,
and their willingness to fix 'broken' elements rather than gloss over
them in the name of backward compatibility, as Sun often does with
Java :)

Best,

Uzair


From mark at prothon.org  Fri Apr  2 22:41:40 2004
From: mark at prothon.org (Mark Hahn)
Date: Fri, 2 Apr 2004 19:41:40 -0800
Subject: Indent testers needed (Prothon)
Message-ID: <Unqbc.131025$cx5.57643@fed1read04>

We're  proud to say that Prothon has grown out of the indent space/tab flame
war stage and has moved on to more serious discussions.

We've decided to allow space-based indents and tab-based indents but not in
the same file.  We are also adding some improvements in the area of line
continuations (see the algorithm at the end of the message).

Since there were zillions of messages here on c.l.py about spaces vs. tabs
and Guido has said he wants to remove tab support, I thought maybe some of
you might help us test our implementation of this indentation algorithm.

Can I get a few space lovers and tab lovers to download this windows
executable and tell us if this makes them happy?  If you keep your Python
code simple and free of class statements, you don't have to learn Prothon to
try it.  You can't use the interactive console to evaluate the algorithm,
you will need to write *.pr code files and run them.  Note:  This is not a
real Prothon release.  It has not been through normal testing.  Use it only
for indent testing.

The zip file (350K) is at:

http://prothon.org/pub/prothon/Prothon-unstable-b255-win32.zip

Unzip the file which will make a folder called win32.  Drop your .pr file
into the folder.  Open a dos command window. CD to the win32 folder and run
the prothon.exe file with the .pr file name:

prothon.exe code.pr

Features:

1) You must use only tabs or only spaces for indents in any one file. You
cannot mix them.

2) Each indent level can have any number of characters more than the
previous level, whether you are using tabs or spaces.  If you drop back to
the left to dedent, and your column position does not match any level above,
you will get a lexer error.

3) If you  increase the indentation level above the previous line by even
one space, and that previous line does not end in a colon, then the new line
will be considered a continuation of the previous line.

4) If a line contains an active (not quoted or commented)  (, {, or [
without a matching end character, then the following line is always a
continuation, no matter what that following line contains.

5) There is still support for using the trailing backslash ( \ ) to indicate
that the next line is a continuation.  This may be removed in the future if
everyone agrees to do so.





From loic at fejoz.net  Fri Apr  2 09:00:25 2004
From: loic at fejoz.net (Yermat)
Date: Fri, 02 Apr 2004 16:00:25 +0200
Subject: Verifying temporal properties. Need problems.
In-Reply-To: <68771ca.0404010839.39b0c24f@posting.google.com>
References: <68771ca.0404010839.39b0c24f@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <c4jrm2$7n7$1@arcturus.ciril.fr>

Bjorn Heimir Bjornsson wrote:
> Hello all
> 
> As part of a thesis, I am model checking Python programs (a limited
> subset anyway).
> 
> I have a very rough prototype that can deal with temporal properties
> (LTL), that is statically prove properties of the kind: "if A happens,
> then B should follow" or "if A happens, then B must not follow unless
> C happens first". A,B,C here being function calls (system or other
> library). The idea is that this might complement testing or manual
> auditing during development.
> 
> So the solution now requires a problem.
> Basically I'm trying to find interesting areas where a programmer is
> supposed to call specific functions in a particular order, but where
> coding errors might prevent this.
> I would be most happy with distinctively Python-related problems, like
> some tricky-to-use system calls or something from Zope or
> security-related issues, etc.
> 
> So if any of you have ideas (specific function calls) where this kind
> of tool would be useful, I would welcome feedback.
> If replying privately, use bjornhb2_hotmail.com (more or less).
> 
> Thanks a lot :)
> Bjorn

Hi,

I do not have any python program to check but I'm interested in 
publications you might already have writen or pointers to python related 
problem.
I'm working as engineer in a research team in formal methods area 
(http://www.loria.fr/equipes/model/).

Did you look at similar project with Java (like 
http://bandera.projects.cis.ksu.edu/) ? I think you will find similar 
problem, no ?

Did your prototype recognize use of the thread standard library (lock, 
etc) ?

If you look at mailman (http://www.list.org/), you can check security 
property like "a non-members cannot send messages to the list", etc.

Do you look at rather small or big project ?

Sorry if I ask more question than I answer... ;-)
The last one : When will you finish your Phd ?

Lo?c



From deetsNOSPAM at web.de  Tue Apr 27 05:36:46 2004
From: deetsNOSPAM at web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2004 11:36:46 +0200
Subject: Default Argument Inconsistency?
References: <c6l8sr$5sm$2@titan.btinternet.com>
Message-ID: <c6la48$cnptg$1@ID-111250.news.uni-berlin.de>

Paul Sweeney wrote:

> The python tutorial gives the following example to demonstrate the fact
> that default args are only evaluated once:
> 
> def f(a,L=[]):
>     L.append(a)
>     return L
> 
> print f(1),f(2),f(3)
> [1] [1,2] [1,2,3]
> 
> now I'm confident I understand this, but I do not understand how changing
> to the following (whatever the merits of so doing, it was an accidental
> typo)
> results in the output displayed:
> 
> def f(a,L=[]):
>     if not L: L=[]
>     L.append(a)
>     return L
> 
>>>> print f(1),f(2),f(3)
> [1] [2] [3]
> 
> surely on second entry to f, L == [1], so the "if not L:" should not
> fire?!

No, its not. As [] is logically false, the 

if not L: L = []

rebinds L with a fresh list. So the append is made to that list, not to the
one L is bound to as default argument.


-- 
Regards,

Diez B. Roggisch


From nospam at nopes  Sun Apr  4 21:47:16 2004
From: nospam at nopes (Steve)
Date: Mon, 05 Apr 2004 11:47:16 +1000
Subject: Session variables?
Message-ID: <4070bad0$1@clarion.carno.net.au>

Hi,

I'm trying to find a clean way of sharing variables across different 
python webpages and scripts and I need something like a session variable 
for each user. Is this possible in Python? I've been "pickling" stuff 
and this doesn't work at all with mutliple users as things get mixed up. 
Is there any clean way of doing this? Thanks,


Steve



From fperez528 at yahoo.com  Tue Apr 13 20:33:56 2004
From: fperez528 at yahoo.com (Fernando Perez)
Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2004 18:33:56 -0600
Subject: plot+interaction
References: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0404121715550.2090@bucky.wustl.edu>
	<mailman.563.1081824861.20120.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <c5i0tk$j8o$1@peabody.colorado.edu>

John Hunter wrote:

>>>>>> "Mark" == Mark Alford <alford at wuphys.wustl.edu> writes:
> 
>     Mark> I have been using the gnuplot.py package for simple 2D
>     Mark> plots.  Works great. But I would like to have a tiny bit of
>     Mark> interactivity:
> 
>     Mark> I would like the program to know where (in terms of the plot
>     Mark> variables x and y) the user has mouse-clicked on the plot
>     Mark> window.
> 
>     Mark> Is there any other plotting package that offers this
>     Mark> functionality?

With CVS gnuplot, I have code around (written by Arnd Baecker) which does this. 
Mail me directly if you are interested.

Cheers,

f


From Use-Author-Supplied-Address at [127.1]  Mon Apr  5 11:06:18 2004
From: Use-Author-Supplied-Address at [127.1] (Anonymous)
Date: 5 Apr 2004 15:06:18 -0000
Subject: slightly OT: BUT NEEDs to be said
Message-ID: <491Z9C8Y38082.4210416667@anonymous.poster>


Hi I downloaded this document about Python recently:

http://datamining.anu.edu.au/~ole/publications/python.pdf

I loved the cute little Snake graphic.

I think it would be great for Python.org/people behind Python to adopt this
as an official mascot and DROP the god awful references to Monty Pythons's
Flying Circus. It is the later which is causing a slow take up and reluctance
of many individuals using Python. MPFC is a very very dated concept and because
of it's strange whacky 'humour' has dubious extreme and loony left wing allegiences
is not a good backdrop for Python. You should never bring politics into your
product. Understand that in the UK a lot of people don't find MPFC amusing,
and many of the 'comedians' have become extremely dispised (like Michael Palin
who is universally recognised as a figure of great nauseum) and have become
objects of ridicule.

Let me put it this way Python as a languge and product is *damaged* by the
references littered everywhere to MPFC. It colours the experience of it and
when I think what scripting language shall I use to get x task done I think
Python could do that and then oh no I'm not paying homage to the ghastly awful
MPFC shit which I hate and will use Perl or PHP instead which are considerably
more artistically 'neutral'

I quite like Python as a language (apart from the tabbing replacing curly brackets
which I'm not sure about) and think it stands up well to Perl and PHP but I
cannot abide the nauseating, puke enducing, gut-wrenching, toe-curling references
to Monty Python's shitty flying circus which is very much part of the *past*
of an era in British comedy and should not be part of any software package's
image.

Please adopt the cute Python graphic as your official logo and mascot which
works much better because it conjures up a *much more* positive metaphor of
a powerfully slippery creature wrapping itself round numbers and strings etc.

regards






From grante at visi.com  Wed Apr 28 09:42:02 2004
From: grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards)
Date: 28 Apr 2004 13:42:02 GMT
Subject: Don't understand wxPython ids
References: <408ed938$0$17263$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
	<BOEjc.12559$eZ5.4366@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>
	<408f3061$0$17258$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
	<JdGdnRJTy4CBoxLdRVn-iQ@comcast.com>
Message-ID: <408fb4aa$0$17264$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>

On 2004-04-28, Doug Holton <insert at spam.here> wrote:

>>>I can only think of one reasn why they chose to use ids in the
>>>first place. Assigning many objects the same id allows you to
>>>use one EVT_* call for those objects. But is that really a
>>>useful feature? Who knows?
>> 
>> That's about the only thing I could think of. The few
>> situations where I'd have wanted to do someting like that I'd
>> gladly put a for-loop iterating over a list of objects in
>> exchange for being able to use single-line of code the other
>> 90% of the time.
>
> Right, there a couple of special cases to think of when
> designing event bindings for a gui toolkit.  One is where you
> want multiple controls to share the same event handler (like a
> button and a menu item that do the same thing).

Just pass the same function to both of them when you create
them?

> Another case is allowing people to change event bindings "on
> the fly", after a window constructor has already been called
> and the window set up.

Provide a method to set the action for an object instance after
it's been created.

Both of these have been SOP in other GUI toolkits for a dog's
age, and I can't figure out any benefit to the ID scheme.
Using an outside function to reach in and torque on the
object's internals seems so un-Pythonesque. But, all sorts of
smart people rave about wxPython, so I thought there must be
some benefit to the ID scheme that I'm missing.

> I proposed some changes similar to you, see this thread:
> http://lists.wxwidgets.org/cgi-bin/ezmlm-cgi?11:sss:23979:200311:dcgnanikkojpgmpdpmio#b
> but nothing came out of it.  I did code up an implementation
> for Wax (http://wiki.wxpython.org/index.cgi/Wax ), but I don't
> know if it was included.


-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow!  Nice decor!
                                  at               
                               visi.com            


From claird at lairds.com  Mon Apr 26 14:47:37 2004
From: claird at lairds.com (Cameron Laird)
Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2004 18:47:37 -0000
Subject: Is Perl *that* good? (was: How's ruby compare to it older
	brother python)
References: <c6ich0$c5mee$1@ID-205437.news.uni-berlin.de>
	<knbjc.267$id.3998@news2.e.nsc.no>
	<108qi5opkrfnv56@corp.supernews.com>
	<gxcjc.321$Yc.3829@news4.e.nsc.no>
Message-ID: <108qma9385hvg27@corp.supernews.com>

In article <gxcjc.321$Yc.3829 at news4.e.nsc.no>,
Leif B. Kristensen <junkmail at solumslekt.org> wrote:
>Cameron Laird rose and spake:
			.
			.
			.
>> I continue to conclude that all these languages are
>> roughtly equally competent at managing strings.
>
>Perhaps, but right now I think that I'm in love with Python. Consider
>these two equivalent routines in PHP and Python:
			.
		[marvelous, if
		slightly unfair,
		example]
			.
			.
>My PHP coding may be suboptimal, but in terms both of codability and
>readability as well as in sheer elegance, I find the Python version
>superior in any way.
			.
			.
			.
I consider infatuation with Python entirely healthy.  In
fact, I often *do* argue just the same position as you 
take here:  that Python is strongly and demonstrably superior
to PHP.  I just want to be as precise as I can about what the
differences are.
-- 

Cameron Laird <claird at phaseit.net>
Business:  http://www.Phaseit.net


From nospam at brasnet.org  Sun Apr 25 17:23:12 2004
From: nospam at brasnet.org (Chaos Master)
Date: Sun, 25 Apr 2004 18:23:12 -0300
Subject: DDE using the Windows version of Python
Message-ID: <MPG.1af620767e3961259898a7@NEWS.INDIVIDUAL.NET>

Hello people

Is there any "module" to do communication between a Python program and other 
software, using DDE protocol?

Thanks.


-- 
Chaos Master? - Posting from Brazil
MSN: wizard_of_yendor at hotmail.com
BRASNET: wizard_of_yendor  
"A Elbereth Gilthoniel, silivren penna miriel o menel aglar elenath!"


From fumanchu at amor.org  Fri Apr 23 13:00:02 2004
From: fumanchu at amor.org (Robert Brewer)
Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2004 10:00:02 -0700
Subject: Generic constructors and duplication of internal Python logic
Message-ID: <DE1CF2B4FEC4A342BF62B6B2B334601E562051@opus.amorhq.net>

Peter Otten wrote:
> def setLocals(d, selfName="self"):
>     self = d.pop(selfName)
>     for n, v in d.iteritems():
>         setattr(self, n, v)
> 
> class Demo(object):
>     def __init__(self, foo, bar, baz=2, bang=3):
>         setLocals(locals())

*Very* nice and clean.

John, if you still want the mixin (to avoid have to call setLocals in
every __init__, you could try a mixin like this (tested just enough to
post without egg on my face):

class ArgMixin(object):
    def __new__(cls, *args, **kwargs):
        inst = object.__new__(cls, *args, **kwargs)
        initargs = list(cls.__init__.func_code.co_varnames)
        # Remove 'self' from initargs
        initargs.pop(0)
        defaults = list(cls.__init__.func_defaults)
        
        # Set provided positional arguments as attributes of instance
        for arg in args:
            name = initargs.pop(0)
            setattr(inst, name, arg)
        
        # Set keyword arguments as attributes of instance,
        # using defaults if no value was passed.
        while initargs:
            name = initargs.pop(0)
            default = defaults.pop(0)
            setattr(inst, name, kwargs.get(name, default))
        
        return inst

class Demo(ArgMixin):
    def __init__(self, foo, bar, baz=2, bang=3):
        pass


...you would have to be careful when/if overriding __new__ in a
subclass. Also, __init__ can still change those attributes. I'm sure
someone will find something wrong with it* ;) but the idea is sound, and
uses some of Python's "internal logic" that you mentioned.


Robert Brewer
MIS
Amor Ministries
fumanchu at amor.org

* For example, I didn't chase down funky calls like Demo(bar=3,
foo="d'oh!"), which exhaust the defaults list.



From elainejackson7355 at home.com  Sun Apr  4 15:34:50 2004
From: elainejackson7355 at home.com (Elaine Jackson)
Date: Sun, 04 Apr 2004 19:34:50 GMT
Subject: splitting a long token across lines
References: <ef0c9173.0404032349.742f59e6@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <urZbc.24758$Ig.12486@pd7tw2no>

why can't you just write it like this:

MODULUS = A*pow(10,a) + \
                        B*pow(10,b) + \
                        C

"Nakamura" <lambajan at yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:ef0c9173.0404032349.742f59e6 at posting.google.com...
| Hi all,
|
| Say, I have a very long integer constant , how can
| I split across lines ?
| I tried something like
| MODULUS = 7567567567567567567567567567567\
|           7567507546546986094860986094860\
|           2345646986598695869548498698989\
|           ...
| but it doesn't compile.
| Is there another way to write a long numeric constant besides writing
| it as a string and then converting to long? I also wouldn't like to put
| it all on one very long line.
|
| Thanks!




From jcarlson at uci.edu  Mon Apr  5 18:50:29 2004
From: jcarlson at uci.edu (Josiah Carlson)
Date: Mon, 05 Apr 2004 15:50:29 -0700
Subject: query regarding OOP functionality in python
In-Reply-To: <mailman.364.1081189449.20120.python-list@python.org>
References: <407153BD.9080203@students.iiit.net>
	<mailman.364.1081189449.20120.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <c4so1u$9dg$1@news.service.uci.edu>

> If you absolutely must have these features, stick to C++ or Java.

Or do something crazy like this...

Error = '''\
Received signature of: %s
Expected one of: %s'''

class polymorpher(object):
     def __init__(self):
         self._dict = {}
     def add_funct(self, funct, *argtypes):
         self._dict[argtypes] = funct
     def __call__(self, *args, **kwargs):
         t = tuple(map(type, args))
         try:
             f = self._dict[(t,)]
         except KeyError:
             raise TypeError(Error%(t, self._dict.keys()))
         return f(*args, **kwargs)


 >>> funct = polymorpher()
 >>> funct.add_funct(lambda *args:str(args), (int, int))
 >>> funct.add_funct(lambda *args:str(args), (float, int))
 >>> funct(1,2)
(<type 'int'>, <type 'int'>)
'(1, 2)'
 >>> funct(1.5, 6)
(<type 'float'>, <type 'int'>)
'(1.5, 6)'
 >>> funct(1, 1.5)
(<type 'int'>, <type 'float'>)
Traceback (most recent call last):
   File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
   File "<stdin>", line 12, in __call__
TypeError: Received signature of: [<type 'int'>, <type 'float'>]
Expected one of: [((<type 'float'>, <type 'int'>),), ((<type 'int'>, 
<type 'int'>),)]
 >>>


Ahh, polymorphism.

  - Josiah


From mwh at python.net  Sat Apr 10 13:16:28 2004
From: mwh at python.net (Michael Hudson)
Date: Sat, 10 Apr 2004 17:16:28 GMT
Subject: print u"\u0432": why is this so hard? UnciodeEncodeError
References: <cpa4qrvb529.fsf@cabernet.nelson.monkey.org>
	<c52lu9$j8c$03$1@news.t-online.com>
	<eppstein-55126D.00202008042004@news.service.uci.edu>
	<c546v4$bi5$02$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <m38yh3hhxv.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk>

"Martin v. L?wis" <martin at v.loewis.de> writes:

> David Eppstein wrote:
> > Py2.3 sure doesn't discover the encoding of my terminal automatically:
> > hyperbolic ~: python
> > Python 2.3 (#1, Sep 13 2003, 00:49:11) [GCC 3.3 20030304 (Apple
> > Computer, Inc. build 1495)] on darwin
> 
> Ah, Darwin. You lose.
> 
> If anybody can tell me how to programmatically discover the encoding
> of Terminal.App, I'll happily incorporate a change into a 2.3.x release.

The user can set it per-terminal, at runtime, with no notification to
the running process that it has done so!

You can't even find out the encoding in use via apple events, which is
a bit of surprise.  Filing a bug with apple might get that changed for
10.4...

Cheers,
mwh

-- 
  Reading Slashdot can [...] often be worse than useless, especially
  to young and budding programmers: it can give you exactly the wrong
  idea about the technical issues it raises.
 -- http://www.cs.washington.edu/homes/klee/misc/slashdot.html#reasons


From peter at engcorp.com  Tue Apr 13 08:51:54 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2004 08:51:54 -0400
Subject: Wrapper round x86 Assembler
In-Reply-To: <8089854e.0404122329.5dfe5ce1@posting.google.com>
References: <8089854e.0404082353.7bf163a2@posting.google.com>
	<4dKdnQlIXMIXIevdRVn-gg@powergate.ca>
	<8089854e.0404100204.504186a0@posting.google.com>
	<kcWdnaFpw_PvdurdRVn-sA@powergate.ca>
	<8089854e.0404122329.5dfe5ce1@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <R9-dnUYH8r32f-bd4p2dnA@powergate.ca>

Fuzzyman wrote:

> Right ? I got confused by the mention that they could handle inline
> assembler.... so many of the compilers include an assembler as well...
> purely for 'inline assembly'.... ??

That's correct.  Of course, many also do the CC+AS thing, but
I think that's no longer the most common approach.

> My past experience of assembly was using an operating system that
> handled multitasking 'behind the scenes' (pre-emptive multitasking) -
> so there was no performance hit on the rest of your system from
> writing crappy assembly - and the internal architecture of the
> processor was useful enough to make coding fun.....

The 68K was certainly assembly-friendly, compared to anything
yet produced by Intel. :-)

> It does occur to me that for a certain subset of a 'pseudo assembly
> language' a 'cross-platform assembler' could work 

I really think that in most ways that matter (not quite all, but most)
this is exactly what C was designed to be and is.  It is only a very
thin layer on top of assembly, really.  You can think of it is a
pseudo-high-level language designed to allow assembly programmers to
write code roughly the way they would if they were not just hacking.
The Amiga's huge variety of STRUCT macros, for example, are
practically field-for-field identical to how C structs work, mostly
just providing an efficient method for specifying the offsets of
each field.  Pointers are nothing more than a more concise way of
expressing the "indirect" addressing mode.  Heck, C even has (or had)
the "goto" statement and labels!  And the for loop syntax is basically
just how assembly loops are done, but again in a more concise and
readable fashion.

I think anyone who attempted to do a "cross-platform assembler"
would quickly find themselves heading in the direction of something
like C.  (I know such things have actually been attempted, and even
exist, by the way.  They just aren't mainstream and clearly C has
greater success.)  Any attempt to stay at the level of hardware
registers would immediately prevent the term "cross-platform" from
applying.

-Peter


From cmkleffner at gmx.de  Thu Apr 15 15:31:32 2004
From: cmkleffner at gmx.de (cmkl)
Date: 15 Apr 2004 12:31:32 -0700
Subject: Python for Presentations
References: <b62b39cb.0404141022.2a5c61ec@posting.google.com>
	<2322284.zRWg8i6zR0@id-216798.user.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <3b091a1c.0404151131.4454912a@posting.google.com>

Karsten Heymann <kheymann-news03 at ecology.uni-kiel.de> wrote in message news:<2322284.zRWg8i6zR0 at id-216798.user.uni-berlin.de>...
> Chris wrote:
> 
> > Is anyone aware of Python packages/software for generating
> > "presentations"-- something that can generate a nice XHTML/CSS or PDF
> > presentation would be cool. I am looking for a better alternative to
> > PowerPoint for building presentation slides, and if that alternative
> > used Python, that would be even better.
> > 
> > Otherwise I could use LaTeX or something, I suppose.
> 
> honestly, use latex! especially latex-beamer is awesome
> (latex-beamer.sf.net) if you have at least a little knowledge of latex. I
> use python for nearly all programming tasks, but presentations are another
> are.
> 
> Karsten

If you want to impress your auditorium and program your presentation
in python take a look at slithy  http://isotropic.org/uw/slithy/

Regards

Carl


From imbosol at aerojockey.invalid  Wed Apr 28 01:29:06 2004
From: imbosol at aerojockey.invalid (Carl Banks)
Date: Wed, 28 Apr 2004 05:29:06 GMT
Subject: Is Perl *that* good?
References: <c6ich0$c5mee$1@ID-205437.news.uni-berlin.de>
	<87fzaqmm8t.fsf@strauser.com>
	<38ec68a6.0404262308.50029919@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.49.1083084698.25742.python-list@python.org>
	<pan.2004.04.27.18.15.56.169064@hotmail.com>
	<Z_Bjc.1397$ZD3.139@fe1.columbus.rr.com>
	<roy-C1F2BF.19434527042004@reader2.panix.com>
	<ECCjc.30580$Vp5.25085@fe2.columbus.rr.com>
	<roy-15912E.20355127042004@reader2.panix.com>
	<XwEjc.31513$Vp5.16074@fe2.columbus.rr.com>
	<roy-A4B407.22370827042004@reader2.panix.com>
Message-ID: <CiHjc.31598$Vp5.31404@fe2.columbus.rr.com>

Roy Smith wrote:
> Carl Banks <imbosol at aerojockey.invalid> wrote:
>> especially because regexps are
>> prone to being used in recursive functions and such
> 
> Why are regexps prone to being used in recursive functions?

Prone was probably a bit too strong a word, but using regexps inside a
recursive function is far from an obscure use.  It can show up in
functions that parse arbitrarily nested text, which typically use
recursion to handle the arbitrarily nested part.


-- 
CARL BANKS                      http://www.aerojockey.com/software
"If you believe in yourself, drink your school, stay on drugs, and
don't do milk, you can get work." 
          -- Parody of Mr. T from a Robert Smigel Cartoon


From nc-jantzegu at netcologne.de  Fri Apr 23 01:12:58 2004
From: nc-jantzegu at netcologne.de (Günter Jantzen)
Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2004 07:12:58 +0200
Subject: Regexp optimization question
References: <slrnc8gal3.9da.mlh@furu.idi.ntnu.no>
Message-ID: <c6a8ku$jga$1@newsreader2.netcologne.de>


"Magnus Lie Hetland" <mlh at furu.idi.ntnu.no> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:slrnc8gal3.9da.mlh at furu.idi.ntnu.no...
>
> Any ideas?
>

Maybe Plex is helpful. I did not use it already, but it seems to adress your
problem
The author of Plex is Greg Ewing. He build Pyrex on top of Plex

The documentation
http://www.cosc.canterbury.ac.nz/~greg/python/Plex/version/doc/index.html
contains

"""
Plex is designed to fill a need that is left wanting by the existing Python
regular expression modules. If you've ever tried to use one of them for
implementing a scanner, you will have found that they're not really suited
to the task. You can define a bunch of regular expressions which match your
tokens all right, but you can only match one of them at a time against your
input. To match all of them at once, you have to join them all together into
one big r.e., but then you've got no easy way to tell which one matched.
This is the problem that Plex is designed to solve.
"""

Hope I could help you
Guenter




From sarge at arena.invalid  Thu Apr 29 16:13:30 2004
From: sarge at arena.invalid (Sarge)
Date: Thu, 29 Apr 2004 20:13:30 GMT
Subject: MATLAB2Python
References: <D2Xjc.28117$Qc.1080799@twister1.libero.it>
	<3064b51d.0404290654.58e59124@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <Kldkc.29551$Qc.1128987@twister1.libero.it>

> I have found numerous cases where Python programs run 10-100
> times slower or more than a comparable Fortran 95 program. 

Uh-oh. This is not fine.
I want to switch to py in order to achieve more flexibility 
especially in the areas of GUIs, distributed computing, and oo-
programming. But I don't want my programs run 100 times slower!
Is it possible to integrate some fortran compiled routines in order 
to speed up the more time-consuming steps?

Thanx,
Sarge

P.S. I have already tried Fortran95 for a while, but I found it's a 
very old-fashioned language, more than Matlab itself, I didn't like 
it very much.


From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Sat Apr 10 10:10:17 2004
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 10 Apr 2004 10:10:17 -0400
Subject: Function args
References: <sdqdc.37060$zm5.15866@nntpserver.swip.net>
Message-ID: <c58v89$o1h$1@panix1.panix.com>

In article <sdqdc.37060$zm5.15866 at nntpserver.swip.net>,
Jean-Michel Caricand  <jean-michel.caricand at laposte.net> wrote:
>
>I'm new in Python. I have a problem with function args. I want to pass 
>args by reference because the function must modify this arg. How I do 
>that in Python.

Here's something else that should help:

http://starship.python.net/crew/mwh/hacks/objectthink.html
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

Why is this newsgroup different from all other newsgroups?


From rmunn at pobox.com  Thu Apr  1 12:03:59 2004
From: rmunn at pobox.com (Robin Munn)
Date: Thu, 01 Apr 2004 17:03:59 GMT
Subject: [OT] Top posting is a PITA
References: <569c605ld1cj8fc1emolk08ete0s1prls1@4ax.com>
	<v0r9c.38988$cx5.22021@fed1read04>
	<106di86neu1qh4d@news.supernews.com>
	<AHF9c.49048$cx5.33872@fed1read04> <c4akqh$gml$1@panix2.panix.com>
	<Sz8ac.68272$cx5.62681@fed1read04>
	<mailman.115.1080652873.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<4069a001$0$4237$afc38c87@news.easynet.co.uk>
	<4069e9d9$0$8915$636a15ce@news.free.fr>
	<406a98ee$0$290$edfadb0f@dread12.news.tele.dk>
	<c4e6jv$10te$1@biggoron.nerim.net>
	<106lh64rda8t9d4@news.supernews.com>
	<tyfn05w1358.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
	<roy-E8B6F4.08412101042004@reader1.panix.com>
Message-ID: <3YXac.5683$406.5360@newssvr15.news.prodigy.com>

Roy Smith <roy at panix.com> wrote:
> Jacek Generowicz <jacek.generowicz at cern.ch> wrote:
>> top-posters tend to write codswallop more often that those who trim 
>> and organize their replies carefully.
>> 
>> This is partly because the process of trimming the original post,
>> forces you to identfy the relevant points being made
> 
> What makes you think people who top post don't also put a lot of effort 
> into carefully organizing their replies and trimming the original post 
> down to the most relevant points?

Bitter, hard-earned experience. Some people do so, as you demonstrated,
but IMB,H-EE the vast majority do not.

Another problem that occurs when some people top-post and some do not is
that the conversation thread quickly becomes unreadable unless someone
takes the time to rearrange it into a consistent form (as I did in
composing this reply).

-- 
Robin Munn
rmunn at pobox.com


From vineet at eswap.com  Sun Apr 11 23:00:28 2004
From: vineet at eswap.com (Vineet Jain)
Date: Sun, 11 Apr 2004 23:00:28 -0400
Subject: Is there a boolean(somestring) equivalent of int(somestring).
	bool('false') -> True
In-Reply-To: <20040411223514.GA30373@unpythonic.net>
Message-ID: <KPENJIMKHJPNKOLFIHBNIEKLCGAA.vineet@eswap.com>

Thanks for the code suggestion.

>From what I've read, most people (including me) are attracted to Python
because of how natural it is. Give that is a high priority for the language
designers:

How can anyone argue that

bool('false') = True

is more natural (and what you would expect) than

bool('false') = False

Having just got over the surprise that int('2.1') fails while
int(float('2.1')) works the above surprises me even more. If the int case
was rejected because it is 'better to be explicit than not' then how can you
bool('false') be allowed??

I still think int('2.1') should return 2. If the programmer is using int
then he should know that what he will get out of the result is an int
regardless of what comes in. Especially since int accepts a float object in
any case. It seems a waste of resources to have to first convert a string to
a float object and then convert it to an int object.

Booleans are associated with (True, on, 1 and yes) and bool() on any them
should return True.

VJ

-----Original Message-----
From: Jeff Epler [mailto:jepler at unpythonic.net]
Sent: Sunday, April 11, 2004 5:35 PM
To: Vineet Jain
Cc: python-list at python.org
Subject: Re: Is there a boolean(somestring) equivalent of
int(somestring). bool('false') -> True


The reason that
>>> bool('false')
returns True is the same reason that
>>> not 'false'
is False:  A non-empty string, when treated as a boolean, is true.

Changing the meaning of bool() is not likely to happen.

Here's one piece of code you might try to get the behavior you desire:

true_values = '1 yes true on'.split()
false_values = '0 no false off'.split()
def parse_boolean_value(s):
    if s in true_values: return True
    if s in false_values: return False
    raise ValueError

'i in seq' is just like checking whether any item in seq is equal to i.
If seq is a dictionary or a set (or defines __contains__), this test can
be a little more efficient, but the efficiency is unlikely to matter
when there are only 4 items.

Jeff




From skip at pobox.com  Thu Apr 29 22:34:55 2004
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Thu, 29 Apr 2004 21:34:55 -0500
Subject: Why cannot jump out the loop?
In-Reply-To: <BAY9-F307gJrKLYALw800045e2b@hotmail.com>
References: <BAY9-F307gJrKLYALw800045e2b@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <16529.47951.692940.903411@montanaro.dyndns.org>


    Jinming> I have a very simple python program, which includes a while
    Jinming> loop. But to my surprise, it cannot jump out the while
    Jinming> loop. Does anyone know why?

    Jinming> Here is the program:
    Jinming> ___________________________
    Jinming> #!/usr/bin/env python
    Jinming> import sys
    Jinming> n=sys.argv[1]
    Jinming> i=0
    Jinming> while i<n:
    Jinming>   print "i=",i," n=",n
    Jinming>   i+=1
    Jinming> -----------------------------------------------------

You need to convert sys.argv[1] to an integer.  Try this instead:

    #!/usr/bin/env python
    import sys
    n = int(sys.argv[1])
    i = 0
    while i < n:
        print "i=", i, " n=", n
        i += 1

Comparisons between any two objects generally always succeed (this
facilitates sorting of heterogenous lists), but doesn't always sort in
useful ways:

    >>> "1" > 1000
    True

Skip



From p_s_oberoi at hotmail.com  Mon Apr 26 01:03:41 2004
From: p_s_oberoi at hotmail.com (Paramjit Oberoi)
Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2004 00:03:41 -0500
Subject: CamelCase versus wide_names (Prothon)
References: <UHxfc.9323$dZ1.3740@fed1read04>
	<6e0680ac.0404211252.7f7b4358@posting.google.com>
	<4086DFA7.9736E7D3@alcyone.com>
	<roy-15454C.18080121042004@reader2.panix.com>
	<PdEhc.19536$dZ1.11964@fed1read04>
	<slrnc8hluh.s60.apardon@trout.vub.ac.be>
	<nkcic.28282$dZ1.27269@fed1read04>
	<pan.2004.04.24.03.42.47.981@hotmail.com>
	<c6i3hk$c9108$1@ID-169208.news.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <pan.2004.04.26.05.03.38.936852@hotmail.com>

>> If the language 'knew' that identifiers potentially consisted of
>> multiple words, maybe it could detect a few different kinds of
>> styles and automatically do the right thing?
> 
> That could be achieved by making it case-insensitive and
> underscore-ignoring.

That would cause aliasing if the two words that form the
identifier also form a third word when put together.
For example:

if sys.platform = 'Windows CE':
	win_ce = True

if feeling_pain:
	wince()


From iv at an.voras.fer  Mon Apr 19 15:34:48 2004
From: iv at an.voras.fer (Ivan Voras)
Date: Mon, 19 Apr 2004 21:34:48 +0200
Subject: Processes with timeout
In-Reply-To: <c614u6$ekq$04$1@news.t-online.com>
References: <c614u6$ekq$04$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <c619re$unc$1@bagan.srce.hr>

Markus Franz wrote:
> How can I make it sure that every child-process terminates after x senconds
> (wether it has finished or not)?

You can toy around with signals. From outside the child process, you can 
send it SIGTERM after some time has passed (and catch it in the process). 
 From inside the process, you can use SIGALARM to track when the time has 
expired. Or you can combine the two.

Or, you can start a "watchdog thread" (a thread that mostly sleep()-s, but 
now and then checks the time)



From fredrik at pythonware.com  Tue Apr 20 09:36:46 2004
From: fredrik at pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 15:36:46 +0200
Subject: Dollar sign ($) on foriegn keyboards? (prothon)
References: <mk3hc.13895$dZ1.10823@fed1read04>
Message-ID: <c6390o$1as$1@sea.gmane.org>

Mark Hahn wrote:?

> We are considering switching to the dollar sign ($) for self, instead of the
> period ( . ) we are using now in Prothon.

any reason you cannot set up a mailing list for your little pet
project?  you're generating tons of off-topic traffic, and frankly,
I don't think I'm the only one who couldn't care less about your
pre-alpha hack with minimum capabilities.

(if I posted hundreds of messages for every pre-alpha hack I've
ever made, people would quickly label me as an annoying crack-
pot.)

</F>






From usenet at -OBFUSCATION-joefrancia.com  Tue Apr 27 11:41:57 2004
From: usenet at -OBFUSCATION-joefrancia.com (Joe Francia)
Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2004 15:41:57 GMT
Subject: creating an python function with DCoracle2 module
References: <46a86393.0404270242.60fe9b35@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <41679251.UDvaYHOLQI@joefrancia.com>

pepericou wrote:

> I'm trying to developp an application which use Zope and DCOracle2
> module to access Oracle database. I've install the DCOracle2 product
> on Windows XP, but when I create a python function to access my
> database, I' have the following error when I test it :
>  import DCOracle2 is unauthorized
> Can You help me ?
> Thank you

I'm assuming you're creating a Python Script in Zope via the ZMI.  Zope
forbids the importing of all but a few modules in the ZMI, for security
reasons.  You will need to use an External Method or, even better, find a
Zope Oracle Product that will allow you to create a connection in one of
your folders and allow you to use Z SQL Methods.

BTW:  You should probably post further questions about Zope to either the
Zope-General or Zope-Database list.

-- 
Soraia: http://www.soraia.com


From colin.blackburn at durham.ac.uk  Tue Apr  6 09:51:00 2004
From: colin.blackburn at durham.ac.uk (Colin Blackburn)
Date: Tue, 06 Apr 2004 14:51:00 +0100
Subject: design by contract versus doctest
References: <407174ea$0$5066$4d4ebb8e@news.nl.uu.net>
	<4072977b$0$1699$afc38c87@news.easynet.co.uk>
	<opr51bkaaeyxrafp@nntphost.dur.ac.uk>
	<4072a7d3$0$23314$afc38c87@news.easynet.co.uk>
Message-ID: <opr51ffat9yxrafp@nntphost.dur.ac.uk>

On Tue, 06 Apr 2004 13:51:29 +0100, Peter Hickman <peter at semantico.com>  
wrote:

> Colin Blackburn wrote:
>
>>  Only while checking is turned on. It is a design philosophy. You  
>> specify  the pre and post-conditions before code is even thought of, it  
>> is part of  the design.
>
> Sure but the checks are still made by the function that is called not by  
> the caller of the function. Which was my point and contrary to what aku  
> said.
>
> aku wrote:
>  > But in "design by contract" this responsibility is squarely
>  > on the shoulders  of the caller, and is *not* checked in
>  > the function.

Aku is correct, no checks are (necessarily) made by the function in  
installed code. It is the caller's responsibility to satisfy the  
pre-conditions.

>>   This says that *if* the pre-conditions are met (by the caller) *then*  
>> the  post-conditions will be guaranteed to be met (by the called  
>> method.)
>
> No this is not entirely true, the require and ensure and both parts of  
> the contract. The function will not be called if the require section is  
> found to be false (such as count being greater than capacity).

In the installed code the pre-conditions are not necessarily implemented  
therefore the function cannot refuse to run since it does not know its  
pre-condition at this stage.

> Then after the function is executed (the do portion) then second half of  
> the contract is checked, the ensure section. If these conditions fail  
> then the contract is broken and the call fail just as if the require had  
> failed.

Again, not necessarily in the installed code since the post-conditions are  
not known. However, the result will be guaranteed if the preconditions are  
met even in the installed code since the code wil have been designed  
properly.

> Take this as an example (hacked at the keyboard, probably wont work)
>
> double (x: ELEMENT) is
> 	require
> 		x > 0
> 	do
> 		x = x * -2
> 	ensure
> 		x > 0
> 	end
>
> If you call it with double(-12) then the require section fails. If you  
> call it with double(12) then the require section passes but the do  
> section is creating a negative number and so the ensure section fails.

Your post-condition is incorrect. The method must ensure that the result  
is double the input parameter if that parameter is greater than zero.  
Howver, yes in this case the ensure will barf but this is at the design  
stage and is there to ensure you get the method right in the first place.  
When you deliver this routine the ensure will not be implement but by then  
you will have corrected your typo.

> Getting the require section to pass is no guarantee that the  
> post-conditions (ensure section) will be met, the do section is code  
> like anything else and may get things wrong.

In correctly developed DbC that is precisely what is guaranteed. The  
post-condition is *guaranteed* if the pre-condition is met. It is a design  
tool.

Colin
--


From jbperez808 at yahoo.com  Tue Apr  6 23:50:05 2004
From: jbperez808 at yahoo.com (Jon Perez)
Date: Wed, 07 Apr 2004 11:50:05 +0800
Subject: Type checking inside a C extension... doesn't throw exception
 on failure
In-Reply-To: <mailman.392.1081257204.20120.python-list@python.org>
References: <c4qdfh$2l5b73$1@ID-180326.news.uni-berlin.de>	<40712D9E.3050802@prescod.net>
	<407229F6.6080809@yahoo.com>
	<mailman.392.1081257204.20120.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <c4vtcd$2nifhm$1@ID-180326.news.uni-berlin.de>

Andrew MacIntyre wrote:

> First rule of using the Python C API: _always_ check the return value of
> API functions.

This only applies to API functions which return PyObject*, right?


From p_s_oberoi at hotmail.com  Tue Apr 27 14:15:58 2004
From: p_s_oberoi at hotmail.com (Paramjit Oberoi)
Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2004 13:15:58 -0500
Subject: Is Perl *that* good?
References: <c6ich0$c5mee$1@ID-205437.news.uni-berlin.de>
	<iL3jc.232$Yc.2330@news4.e.nsc.no>
	<108q51j4dscn7dc@corp.supernews.com>
	<knbjc.267$id.3998@news2.e.nsc.no>
	<pan.2004.04.26.20.50.19.843510@hotmail.com>
	<87fzaqmm8t.fsf@strauser.com>
	<38ec68a6.0404262308.50029919@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.49.1083084698.25742.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <pan.2004.04.27.18.15.56.169064@hotmail.com>

>     Asun> Regex is much more 'immediate' in Perl.  
> 
> Sure, it's syntactically bound into the language.  There will always be an
> extra constant overhead to enable regular expressions in Python.  That

If only compiled regular expression objects allowed easy access to the
last match object, python regxes would become significantly more
convenient.  For example, today you have to write:

m = myregex.match(line)
if (m):
    xyz = m.group('xyz')

It would be much easier to do:

if myregex.match(line):
    xyz = myregex.lastm.group('xyz')

Having to introduce a new variable name for a match object just
muddles the code unnecessarily in common regex usage scenarios.

-param


From jepler at unpythonic.net  Wed Apr 14 20:06:05 2004
From: jepler at unpythonic.net (Jeff Epler)
Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2004 19:06:05 -0500
Subject: Python 2.2.x core dumping
In-Reply-To: <c0221b65.0404141523.3b67f24@posting.google.com>
References: <c0221b65.0404141523.3b67f24@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <20040415000605.GA13706@unpythonic.net>


You could use sys.setrecursionlimit() to lower the recursion limit
(if it's recursion in Python code).  That's the only Python-specific
thing that comes to mind as easily tweakable which might turn the segv
into a debuggable backtrace.

When I ran a simple recursive C program under gdb, the stack was intact
when the program stopped.  Have you tried this?  If you can return to
most any Python API call in the stack trace and return NULL, you may be
able to get a Python exception as a result.

just a few ideas,
Jeff



From cm at leetspeak.org  Fri Apr 30 08:30:22 2004
From: cm at leetspeak.org (Michael Walter)
Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2004 14:30:22 +0200
Subject: Ideas for Python 3
In-Reply-To: <du765bkhaum.fsf@mozart.cc.tut.fi>
References: <s1pt80h988ucqd8vbrd3occhpagtpssigg@4ax.com>
	<onrt805i8q1qv5amhk06pqpe8umm9i7mhc@4ax.com>
	<c6mtgm$e09bj$1@ID-88904.news.uni-berlin.de>
	<du765bkhaum.fsf@mozart.cc.tut.fi>
Message-ID: <c6tgsn$fe8h8$2@ID-88904.news.uni-berlin.de>

Ville Vainio wrote:

>>>>>>"Michael" == Michael Walter <cm at leetspeak.org> writes:
> 
> 
>     Michael> Almost. Or write mapc ("map currying") and have:
> 
> Note - the name mapc is very misleading, because it looks too much
> like Lisp mapc (mapcar, equicalent to normal python map).
> 
True.

L = map(curry(pow),range(2,6))

might be more intelligent, anyway, what do you think?

Cheers,
Michael


From jacobsmail at postmark.net  Mon Apr 26 17:01:33 2004
From: jacobsmail at postmark.net (Jacob H)
Date: 26 Apr 2004 14:01:33 -0700
Subject: Is there a Python library that packs binary data into one file?
Message-ID: <85b54e91.0404261301.69d5c1e9@posting.google.com>

Hello all,

Today I began writing a utility script that takes given binary files
and puts them all into one datafile. My idea is to be able to access
any binary data I want by indexing the datafile, e.g.
wanted_image_data = datafileobj[IMAGE_DATA]. The purpose is to hide
external image files from the user in a simple game I'm writing.

Though I have a good idea of how to implement this, before I begin I
am curious to know if some Python master out there has already come
out with a library that does the same. Anyone? :)


From tdelaney at avaya.com  Thu Apr 29 19:33:05 2004
From: tdelaney at avaya.com (Delaney, Timothy C (Timothy))
Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2004 09:33:05 +1000
Subject: outline-style sorting algorithm
Message-ID: <338366A6D2E2CA4C9DAEAE652E12A1DE016BCCC9@au3010avexu1.global.avaya.com>

Thorsten Kampe wrote:

> You DSU approach took about 43 s and mine took about 86 s.
> Than I tested range(1000000) in reverse order:
> Your sorted program took about 24 s and mine about 5!

I've taken the code that you posted in response to Terry, fixed it
(there were some extra parentheses and I don't have the `colour`
module). I didn't modify any of the functions.

Windows XP SP1
P4 3GHz (HT enabled)
Python 2.3.3

a = range(1000000); a.reverse()
b = randseq(1, 1000000, 1000000, 'repeat')

cpu: 3.610, total: 3.609    # timer(funcsort, a, lambda x: x, 'dsu')
cpu: 1.387, total: 1.390    # timer(funcsort, a, lambda x: x, 'pass')
cpu: 9.050, total: 9.047    # timer(funcsort, b, lambda x: x, 'dsu')
cpu: 26.459, total: 26.469  # timer(funcsort, b, lambda x: x, 'pass')

These results are in stark contrast to yours. What version of Python
were you using?

> So you cannot simply state that DSU is faster than passing a function
> if the structure of the input you want to sort is unknown...

That's why I said "almost all cases preferred". In the first run above,
it's obvious that the additional overhead of generating the keys, etc
exceeds the time spent comparing. Most likely because the 2.3 sort is
very efficient for partially-ordered lists (like a reversed list) and
therefore the comparison function doesn't get called many times.

Now, when randomness is introduced the comparison function ends up being
called a lot more and it's overhead is far greater than with DSU.

Tim Delaney



From paul at prescod.net  Sun Apr  4 22:52:09 2004
From: paul at prescod.net (Paul Prescod)
Date: Sun, 04 Apr 2004 19:52:09 -0700
Subject: Advocacy opportunity
In-Reply-To: <1071eiaddi7mo95@news.supernews.com>
References: <10719mdp83juif4@corp.supernews.com>
	<1071eiaddi7mo95@news.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <4070C9D9.4080704@prescod.net>

John Roth wrote:

> 
> I wouldn't. To me, a root class is a common class that is **the**
> root of the object hierarchy, in some useful sense such as
> contributing numerous common methods. Granted, new style
> classes are rooted in object, but object doesn't seem to
> contribute much except for __getattribute__.

 >>> isinstance(5, object)
True
 >>> dir(object)
['__class__', '__delattr__', '__doc__', '__getattribute__', '__hash__', 
'__init__', '__new__', '__reduce__', '__reduce_ex__', '__repr__', 
'__setattr__', '__str__']
 >>> dir(5)
['__abs__', '__add__', '__and__', '__class__', '__cmp__', '__coerce__', 
'__delattr__', '__div__', '__divmod__', '__doc__', '__float__', 
'__floordiv__', '__getattribute__', '__getnewargs__', '__hash__', 
'__hex__', '__init__', '__int__', '__invert__', '__long__', 
'__lshift__', '__mod__', '__mul__', '__neg__', '__new__', '__nonzero__', 
'__oct__', '__or__', '__pos__', '__pow__', '__radd__', '__rand__', 
'__rdiv__', '__rdivmod__', '__reduce__', '__reduce_ex__', '__repr__', 
'__rfloordiv__', '__rlshift__', '__rmod__', '__rmul__', '__ror__', 
'__rpow__', '__rrshift__', '__rshift__', '__rsub__', '__rtruediv__', 
'__rxor__', '__setattr__', '__str__', '__sub__', '__truediv__', '__xor__']

  Paul Prescod





From peter at engcorp.com  Sat Apr 17 15:11:16 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Sat, 17 Apr 2004 15:11:16 -0400
Subject: Static Modules...
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0404171238540.29550-100000@e5-05.ee.ualberta.ca>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0404171006210.27811-100000@e5-05.ee.ualberta.ca>
	<Xns94CECB9B070C3cliechtigmxnet@62.2.16.4>
	<Pine.LNX.4.44.0404171238540.29550-100000@e5-05.ee.ualberta.ca>
Message-ID: <FqqdncyMu53JHBzdRVn-vg@powergate.ca>

Grzegorz Dostatni wrote:
>>"import this" -> "Explicit is better than implicit."
> 
> This is exactly my point. My way will only work when you reference the
> name explicitly, as in:
> 
> sys.setrecursionlimit(500)
> 
> You're referencing the sys module explicitly. Other than that this
> "problem" exactly parallels the discussion between static and dynamic
> typing. And we know which way python chooses to go.

That's not entirely accurate, I think.  With static typing, you
can't even use a variable if you don't predefine it, but predefining
it doesn't necessarily give it a value (or it gives it a benign
default value).  With dynamic typing, just asking for a variable
doesn't (normally) magically create one with an appropriate value.

This hack is a cool idea for interactive prompts, but in real
code and even at the prompt it could actually be quite "dangerous".
Importing a module can cause arbitrary code to execute, so it
makes some sense to _require_ the import statement.

After all, what if I had a module called, perhaps inappropriately,
"launch" and it triggered the launch of my personal anti-aircraft
missile when imported?  (Yes, bad style too, but I wrote this
control code long ago before I learned good style. ;-)  Now in
one of my other modules, I have a subtle bug** which involves an
object named, perhaps unsurprisingly for this example, "launch".

The code looks like this actually (pulled right out of the source
tree!), slightly edited to preserve national security:

def checkLaunchPermission(self):
     lunch = self.findLaunchController()
     if launch.inhibited:
         # code that doesn't launch anything...

Now if I understand it properly, when your hack is in place
this would actually import the launch module and cause all hell
to break loose.

Did I just make a case for static typing with Python?  Well,
perhaps, but only in the relatively dangerous area of module
imports and there, unlike with simple variable names, Python
already requires explicit (i.e. static) definitions...

-Peter

** Thanks to Greg for starting this discussion as otherwise I
would not have discovered this bug in time to save you all...


From fxn at hashref.com  Thu Apr  1 11:25:10 2004
From: fxn at hashref.com (Xavier Noria)
Date: 1 Apr 2004 08:25:10 -0800
Subject: outline.el usage?
References: <31a13074.0404010226.6aba9509@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <31a13074.0404010825.fb379e7@posting.google.com>

fxn at hashref.com (Xavier Noria) wrote in message news:<31a13074.0404010226.6aba9509 at posting.google.com>...
> A Google search here for folding Python code in Emacs pointed to
> outline.el

I am sorry, I meant the question to be about outdent.el, not outline.el.

-- fxn


From jjl at pobox.com  Thu Apr 22 17:37:14 2004
From: jjl at pobox.com (John J. Lee)
Date: 22 Apr 2004 22:37:14 +0100
Subject: Generic constructors and duplication of internal Python logic
References: <87ekqq41ya.fsf@pobox.com> <c5lfi6$cit$00$1@news.t-online.com>
	<87oepnzlbp.fsf@pobox.com> <c62kqc$glm$07$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <87k707elth.fsf@pobox.com>

Peter Otten <__peter__ at web.de> writes:

> John J. Lee wrote:
> 
> > Peter Otten <__peter__ at web.de> writes:
> > 
> >> John J. Lee wrote:
> > [...]
> >> You could use a noop method check_attrs() to define the argspec.
> >> check_attrs() is then called from the mixin's __init__() just to check
> >> that the parameters comply.
> >> 
> >> import inspect
> >> 
> >> def make_attrspec(f):
> >>     a = inspect.getargspec(f)
> >>     names = a[0]
> >>     if names[0] in ["self", "cls"]:
> >>         # XXX for now relies on naming convention
> >>         del names[0]
> >>     defaults = a[3]
> >>     for i in range(-1, -len(defaults)-1, -1):
> >>         names[i] = names[i], defaults[i]
> >>     return names
> >> 
> >> class ArgsMixin:
> >>     def __init__(self, *args, **kwds):
> >>         self.check_attrs(*args, **kwds)
> >> 
> >> class Blah(ArgsMixin):
> >>     def check_attrs(self, foo, bar, baz, optional1="first",
> >> optional2="second"):
> >>         pass
> >>     attr_spec = make_attrspec(check_attrs)
> > 
> > Clever.  But how to get __init__ to assign the arguments to the
> > instance?
> > 
> > b = Blah(foo=1, bar=2, optional1=4)
> > assert b.foo, b.bar, b.optional1 = 1, 2, 4
> > 
> > 
> > That half of the problem is missing in your solution.
> 
> I'll give it a try (untested):
> 
> class ArgsMixin:
>     def __init__(self, *args, **kwds):
>         self.check_attrs(*args, **kwds)
>         # positionals provided
>         for n, v in zip(self.attr_spec, args):
>             setattr(self, n, v)

But the actual args may (quite legally) be longer than the args part
of attr_spec, and then:

>>> attr_spec = ["foo", "bar", ("a", "b")]
>>> args = [1, 2]
>>> zip(attr_spec, args)
[('foo', 1), ('bar', 2)]
>>> args = [1, 2, 3]
>>> zip(attr_spec, args)
[('foo', 1), ('bar', 2), (('a', 'b'), 3)]  # wrong, can't do setattr!
>>> 

This can be fixed, but then we move towards my clumsy-but-correct (I
hope) implementation.  I'm disappointed there's no simple solution
that makes better use of Python's own knowledge of argument
specifications.


>         # positionals using defaults
>         for nv in self.attr_spec[len(args):]:
>             if not isinstance(nv, basestring):
>                 n, v = nv
>                 if not n in kwds:
>                     setattr(self, n, v)
>         # keyword args
>         for n, v in kwds.iteritems():
>             setattr(self, n, v)
[...]


John


From loic at fejoz.net  Thu Apr 29 03:10:42 2004
From: loic at fejoz.net (Yermat)
Date: Thu, 29 Apr 2004 09:10:42 +0200
Subject: Is classless worth consideration
In-Reply-To: <mailman.104.1083210274.25742.python-list@python.org>
References: <g9k090lhocd1nbd7g230br6ooub113hjt6@4ax.com>	<1090r77d97k0tb1@news.supernews.com>
	<mailman.104.1083210274.25742.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <c6q9u3$i8q$1@arcturus.ciril.fr>

Michael wrote:
> 
>> It's just occured to me that backing into that particular
>> issue might work: use class methods and never bother
>> with instantiating the classes at all. I'm not sure what
>> we'd lose. (possibly descriptors?)
>>
> You can already use:
> 
> class test:
>     x = 1
> 
> t = test
> print t.x
> 
> 
> Is there any way to to call a class method without making an instance of 
> that class? To me that would be useful because you could mimic modules 
> without having to create a sepperate file. Or is there already a way to 
> do that?
> 

this way ? ! ?

 >>> class Test(object):
...     x = 1
...     def incX(cls, inc):
...             cls.x += inc
...     incX = classmethod(incX)
...
 >>>
 >>>
 >>> t = Test
 >>> t.x
1
 >>> t.incX(2)
 >>> t.x
3

But is it really usefull ? If you really want something per instance 
look at the following code...

 >>> def attach(inst, fct, attrName):
...     setattr(inst, attrName, fct.__get__(inst, inst.__class__))
...
 >>>
 >>> class Test(object):
...     pass
...
 >>>
 >>> t = Test()
 >>> t.x = 2
 >>>
 >>> def incX(self, inc):
...     self.x += inc
...
 >>>
 >>> attach(t, incX, 'incX')
 >>>
 >>> t.x
2
 >>> t.incX(3)
 >>> t.x
5
 >>>
 >>> t1 = Test()
 >>> hasattr(t1, 'x')
False
 >>> hasattr(t1, 'incX')
False



From jdhunter at ace.bsd.uchicago.edu  Fri Apr 16 11:54:29 2004
From: jdhunter at ace.bsd.uchicago.edu (John Hunter)
Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2004 10:54:29 -0500
Subject: a little math problem
Message-ID: <m2pta7c40a.fsf@mother.paradise.lost>


I have a number base, float or int.  I need routines that return the
largest multiple of base < x, largest multiple of base <=x, smallest
multiple of base > x and smallest multiple of base >= x.

For integer base, I have been doing

def nearest_geq(base, x):        
    if x%base!=0:    
        return nearest_gt(base, x)
    else:
        return x

def nearest_leq(base, x):
    return int(x)//base * base

def nearest_gt(base, x):
    return int(x+base)//base * base

def nearest_lt(base, x):
    return int(x-base)//base * base

Is there a more elegant solution that works well for floats too?

JDH




From michaelmossey at yahoo.com  Thu Apr  8 21:22:43 2004
From: michaelmossey at yahoo.com (Michael Mossey)
Date: 8 Apr 2004 18:22:43 -0700
Subject: Intermittant slow startup
References: <9badaf0.0404051033.9fec2db@posting.google.com>
	<4071A86D.97CA6CAE@alcyone.com>
	<9badaf0.0404051445.5b26b945@posting.google.com>
	<m3fzbesmcx.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk>
	<9badaf0.0404081413.5cc83413@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <9badaf0.0404081722.69cd11c0@posting.google.com>

michaelmossey at yahoo.com (Michael Mossey) wrote in message news:<9badaf0.0404081413.5cc83413 at posting.google.com>...
> Michael Hudson <mwh at python.net> wrote in message news:<m3fzbesmcx.fsf at pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk>...
> > michaelmossey at yahoo.com (Michael Mossey) writes:
> > 
> > > Erik Max Francis <max at alcyone.com> wrote in message news:<4071A86D.97CA6CAE at alcyone.com>...
> > > > Michael Mossey wrote:
> > > > 
> > > > > Runnng python 2.2 on HP-UX, I get intermittant slow startup.
> > > > > Sometimes python starts up in a small fraction of a second, and
> > > > > sometimes takes 3-5 seconds.  This applies to any script I run, or
> > > > > just typing 'python' at the prompt.
> > > > > 
> > > > > I also observed something similar on Linux.
> > > > > 
> > > > > Any ideas what would cause *intermittant* slow startup?
> > > > 
> > > > Caching?  Is it a long time between invocations that it takes a long
> > > > time to start up?
> > > 
> > > It is quite intermittant without much of a pattern I can see.  One
> > > thing that is definitely true is that if I start up python several
> > > times in a row one right after the other, some can be slow and some
> > > fast.  I just observed it start fast twice, then start slow.  I don't
> > > remember if it ever does the other way around but I think it does.
> > 
> > Does HP-UX have a version of strace/truss/ktrace?
> > 
> > Cheers,
> > mwh
> 
> Yes, it has strace.  What do I do with that?
> 
> -Mike


Okay, the thousands of people who have dropped everything to work on
this for me, you can go back to what you were doing. ;)  My shared
library load path included an AFS directory that wasn't necessary. 
When I took that out, it worked fine.

Thanks everyone,
Mike


From peter at engcorp.com  Wed Apr 28 08:42:27 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Wed, 28 Apr 2004 08:42:27 -0400
Subject: Is Perl *that* good?
In-Reply-To: <roy-55BC22.15022827042004@reader2.panix.com>
References: <c6ich0$c5mee$1@ID-205437.news.uni-berlin.de>
	<iL3jc.232$Yc.2330@news4.e.nsc.no>
	<108q51j4dscn7dc@corp.supernews.com>
	<knbjc.267$id.3998@news2.e.nsc.no>
	<pan.2004.04.26.20.50.19.843510@hotmail.com>
	<87fzaqmm8t.fsf@strauser.com>
	<38ec68a6.0404262308.50029919@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.49.1083084698.25742.python-list@python.org>
	<pan.2004.04.27.18.15.56.169064@hotmail.com>
	<noydnQuaxutgNxPdRVn-hw@powergate.ca>
	<roy-55BC22.15022827042004@reader2.panix.com>
Message-ID: <yuqdnUy5QZcuOxLdRVn-vg@powergate.ca>

Roy Smith wrote:

> In article <noydnQuaxutgNxPdRVn-hw at powergate.ca>,
>  Peter Hansen <peter at engcorp.com> wrote:
>>Wouldn't that be a fairly trivial class to write, and use
>>in your own code?
> 
> It would be.  And everybody would invent their own flavor.  Putting it 
> into the core means everybody does it the same way, so everybody's code 
> is easier to understand and maintain.

Which is the same tired argument that people always seem to use,
thinking it somehow justifies putting something into the core.

The "to keep people from inventing their own flavor" argument
is only useful if lots of folks are already doing this!

This is actually the first time in recent years that I can recall
that someone has complained about having to make up a new variable
(which is as good as free) to hold the result of a match.  If
lots more people do it and we start getting a situation where
there are a half dozen ways to spell the same thing, *then* it's
time to consider a PEP or something, or standardizing one of
the approaches and putting it in the core.

-Peter


From adalke at mindspring.com  Thu Apr  8 17:58:22 2004
From: adalke at mindspring.com (Andrew Dalke)
Date: Thu, 08 Apr 2004 21:58:22 GMT
Subject: ANN: Bioinformatics Open Source Conference
Message-ID: <2Wjdc.2095$A_4.580@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>

I know there's many people here using Python for bioinformatics
(including people who don't use Biopython :)

If you're planning to be at ISMB this summer you might want
to check out BOSC, the Bioinformatics Open Source Conference
  http://www.open-bio.org/bosc2004/
which takes place two days before ISMB starts.  It's a great
time to talk about your software project either a full talk
(up to 30 minutes), a lighting talk (about 5 minutes) or during
one of our demo sessions.

The deadline for full-talk proposals is next week, but we
will accept lighting talks and demos until we run out of
space, even during the conference itself.

I hope to have a good showing by Python people!

                    Andrew
                    dalke at dalkescientific.com




From peter at luciak.org  Tue Apr 20 04:04:20 2004
From: peter at luciak.org (Peter Luciak)
Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 10:04:20 +0200
Subject: eval() and local variables
Message-ID: <20040420080420.GA2178@avalon>

Hi,
I need to do something like this:

def my():
        a,b=1,2
        func = "lambda x: a*x+b"
        map(eval(func),[1,2,3])

my()

NameError: global name 'a' is not defined

Why do I have to make a,b global for this to work?

Thanks,
P.
-- 
Peter `cuco' Luciak 		jabber://cuc0 at jabber.sk
peter at luciak.org 		http://www.luciak.org/



From kkto at csis.hku.hk  Fri Apr  9 05:46:18 2004
From: kkto at csis.hku.hk (Isaac To)
Date: Fri, 09 Apr 2004 17:46:18 +0800
Subject: List vs tuples
References: <c54cjb$5fs$1@planja.arnes.si> <107bf8q8fhsmg5e@news.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <7in05lfpqt.fsf@enark.csis.hku.hk>

>>>>> "John" == John Roth <newsgroups at jhrothjr.com> writes:

    John> It's a common question. A list is a data structure that is
    John> intended to be used with homogenous members; that is, with members
    John> of the same type.

I feel you argument very strange.  Even that it might be the original
intention, I see nothing in the language that support your argument.

In particular, nothing says that tuples cannot be used (or is troublesome to
use) when members are of the same type.  And nothing says that lists cannot
be used (or is troublesome to use) when members are of different types.

    John> You've probably used tuples without realizing it. For example, the
    John> following idiom involves a tuple:

    John> hours, minute, second = getTime()

    John> where

    John> def getTime(.....)  #some calc return hour, minute, second

    John> While it looks like return is returning multiple objects, it
    John> actually isn't. It's returning one object: a tuple of three
    John> elements which is then being unpacked on the receiving end.

If getTime() give you a list instead, then [hours, minute, second] =
getTime() would still give you the hours, minute and second variables
assigned.

    John> You could call the same routine this way as well:

    John> result = getTime()

    John> and result would be a tuple of three elements.

And if getTime() give you a list of course result would be a list instead.
Nothing magic.

    John> Another way of thinking about it is that you would use a tuple the
    John> same way you would use a struct in a language like C, if you
    John> didn't want to go to the trouble of creating a full-fledged object
    John> for it.

And you can use a list here as well.  Indeed, if you want to emulate C
struct, you probably will use list instead of tuples, since in C, structs
are mutable.

Regards,
Isaac.


From jacek.generowicz at cern.ch  Tue Apr 27 05:49:27 2004
From: jacek.generowicz at cern.ch (Jacek Generowicz)
Date: 27 Apr 2004 11:49:27 +0200
Subject: Magic methods in extension types
References: <tyfisfnt2zd.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
	<m3isfnm1bg.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk>
	<tyfekqbt02c.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
	<m3ekqanceo.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk>
	<tyfad0yu6ma.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
	<m3wu41x0r8.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <tyfvfjlsqc8.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>

Michael Hudson <mwh at python.net> writes:

> Jacek Generowicz <jacek.generowicz at cern.ch> writes:
> 
> > Michael Hudson <mwh at python.net> writes:
> > 
> > > Jacek Generowicz <jacek.generowicz at cern.ch> writes:
> > > 
> > > > Michael Hudson <mwh at python.net> writes:

> > > and for new-style classes much hair in typeobject.c:type_new and
> > > therein called functions.  Extension types don't go through type_new
> > > and are expected to go the other way round, in a sense: define
> > > something in tp_as_number->nb_inplace_add and a wrapper called
> > > __iadd__ will be created for you.
> > 
> > Yuk.
> 
> Why?

Partly because I misread (thinking that *I* had to write hairy stuff
for it to work), and partly because the dichotomy offends my sense of
symmetry, beauty, coherence, cleanlyness etc.

> > You are, in summary, saying that by _far_ the simplest way of adding
> > __iadd__ to an extenion type is via tp_as_number->nb_inplace_add,
> > aren't you.
> 
> Yes.  I'm surprised at your apparent surprise, but then I've had my
> head in the guts of Python's implementation for quite some time
> now...

... while I try to keep out of there. (I appreciate Python for its
ability to hide unimportant low-level details, not for it being a C
program; if I wanted to program in a low-level language, I wouldn't
need Python ... unless it would be to play with implementation details
of Python itself: you realize that I'm eagerly waiting for PyPy to
deliver :-)

> implementing types in C is really quite different from
> implementing them in Python, something which has only become
> surprising since 2.2...

Yes, I was blindly hoping that type-class unification would have made
implementing extension types look more like implementing Python types.

Anyway, it's clear what I have to do. Thanks.


From roy at panix.com  Thu Apr 15 18:26:37 2004
From: roy at panix.com (Roy Smith)
Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2004 18:26:37 -0400
Subject: Difficulty Finding Python Developers
References: <65cbc3dd.0404140641.3501fde8@posting.google.com>
	<5d83790c.0404150701.605782a7@posting.google.com>
	<roy-A17A1C.12565615042004@reader2.panix.com>
	<7xpta8hqe7.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <roy-A844BA.18263715042004@reader2.panix.com>

In article <7xpta8hqe7.fsf at ruckus.brouhaha.com>,
 Paul Rubin <http://phr.cx at NOSPAM.invalid> wrote:

> Roy Smith <roy at panix.com> writes:
> > I would put it slightly differently.
> > 
> > With Python, you can learn a useful subset of the language in a weekend.  
> > Control flow, statement syntax, and how to define and use functions.  
> > Assuming you're already familiar with the concepts of classes and 
> > exceptions (and just need to learn how python implements them), those 
> > are probably another weekend.
> 
> I think anyone using Python in a serious production project has to be
> ready to extend or debug the library modules and/or write new C
> extensions.

I guess it depends on what you mean by "serious production project".  
I've played with several of the extension APIs just to get a feel for 
what they're like, but I've never actually used any of them in anger.

Of course, I've used plenty of add-on modules (DB, LDAP, SNMP, etc), but 
I just downloaded them and started using them.  Certainly, *somebody* 
had to muck about in the C API (or SWIG, or Boost, or whatever) to get 
that done, but I've never felt the need.

Of course, I learned C in the days when it was assumed that anybody 
doing any "serious production project" in C would have to be able to 
dive into assembler once in a while :-)

> There are just too many surprising little gaps in the
> standard library and you run into them when you least expect it.

I'm sure there are, but can you give some examples of ones you've run up 
against?

> And the C API is quite cumbersome and not something a typical 
> programmer can really come up to speed on in a weekend.

No debate about that, but the C API is (IMHO) a very advanced topic and 
something that only a small fraction of Python programmers would ever 
need even know exists.  You certainly don't need to know about it to get 
useful work done with a basic subset of the language.


From deetsNOSPAM at web.de  Tue Apr 20 08:20:38 2004
From: deetsNOSPAM at web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 14:20:38 +0200
Subject: Problems using modulo
References: <d698d3e7.0404190731.3dcb89d2@posting.google.com>
	<c60t0u$6pbai$1@ID-111250.news.uni-berlin.de>
	<pan.2004.04.19.21.29.44.619082@datafull.com>
Message-ID: <c63516$764qn$1@ID-111250.news.uni-berlin.de>

Gonzalo Sainz-Tr?paga (GomoX) wrote:

> On Mon, 19 Apr 2004 17:51:53 +0200, Diez B. Roggisch wrote:
>> AFAIK modulo is mathematically only properly defined on
>> integers - so you should stick to them.
> 
> Modulo is fine for any number (even irrational ones). For example,
> acos(sqrt(3)/2) is congruent to pi/6 mod 2*pi. Technically, two numbers
> are congruent mod n when the rest of the division by n is the same, it
> doesn't matter whether n is an integer or not.

Hum - usually, division in fields like Q or R doesn't yield a rest, doesn't
it? Thats what I meant. Of course if you define division as 

a / b := subtract b from a until a is < b

and count the iterations, you can have modulo. So I stand corrected that the
modulo op in python then makes sense (even if numerical problems arise, but
thats a different topic).


-- 
Regards,

Diez B. Roggisch


From matthew at coredumps.net  Fri Apr 16 01:02:45 2004
From: matthew at coredumps.net (Matthew)
Date: 15 Apr 2004 22:02:45 -0700
Subject: [Newbie Q on String & List Manipulation]
References: <567a7c35.0404150247.7809bef5@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <567a7c35.0404152102.66fae5a2@posting.google.com>

hello all,

thanks very much for you guys' replies. :)

i guess i already have properly indented the code,
and i also tried the string.join() method.

i changed the script a bit to test both the a+=b
and the string.join().

pls kindly take a look at the output and the script
below.

thanks in advance.

---
matthew


##########
# OUTPUT #
##########

=== the content of the "thecookies" list ===
['=zh_HK; Expires=Sat, 16-Apr-05 04:57:58 GMT; Path=/\r',
'Session=zh_HK\r', 'SID=AejhWhifAlWLXGi3lnBd3PiLeNUkoasZRP9kKXc0Es_o;Domain=.google.com;Path=/\r',
'GV=fbf1ad9eb8-4bbb676189c513f10bfa42556f57c6ac']

=== the content of the string: "mycookies" ===
GV=fbf1ad9eb8-4bbb676189c513f10bfa42556f57c6ac_o;Domain=.google.com;Path=/

=== use the string.join(): "".join(thecookies) ===
GV=fbf1ad9eb8-4bbb676189c513f10bfa42556f57c6ac_o;Domain=.google.com;Path=/

############
# Gmail.py #
############

#
# A Python script that would logging into the Gmail services and check
# if the message is still the "Sorry, Gmail is in limited test
mode..."
#
# Matthew Wong <matthew at coredumps.net> 2004-04-15
#

import re
import string
import sys
import urllib

user = "matthew at coredumps.net"
pswd = "maddog4096"

schm = "https://"
host = "www.google.com"
path = "/accounts/ServiceLoginBoxAuth"
qstr = {"service"  : "mail",                     \
	"continue" : "http://gmail.google.com/", \
	"Email"    : user,                       \
	"Passwd"   : pswd}

qstr = urllib.urlencode(qstr)

url  = schm + host + path + "?" + qstr

conn = urllib.urlopen(url)

headers  = conn.info().headers
response = conn.read()

thecookies = []

#
# extract all the Set-Cookie from the HTTP response header and put it
in thecookies
#

for header in headers:
	matches = re.compile("^Set-Cookie: (.*)$").search(header)
	if matches:
		thecookies.append(matches.group(1))

#
# make sure we've grep the SID or die
#

foundsessionid = 0

for item in thecookies:
	if re.compile("^SID").search(item):
		foundsessionid = 1
		break

if not foundsessionid:
	print "> Failded to retrieve the \"SID\" cookie"
	sys.exit()

#
# grep the GV cookie from the HTTP response or die
#

matches = re.compile("^\s*var cookieVal= \"(.*)\";.*",
re.M).search(response)

if matches:
	thecookies.append("GV=" + matches.group(1))
else:
	print "> Failed to retrieve the \"GV\" cookie"
	sys.exit()

#
# dump the content of the list: thecookies 
#

print "=== the content of the \"thecookies\" list ==="
print thecookies
print "\n"

#
# join the items in the "thecookies" list to
# the "mycookies" string by using the a += b
#

mycookies = ""

for item in thecookies:
	mycookies += item

print "=== the content of the string: \"mycookies\" ==="
print mycookies
print "\n"

#
# join the items in the "thecookies" list to
# the "mycookies" string by using the string.join()
#

print "=== use the string.join(): \"\".join(thecookies) ==="
print "".join(thecookies)
print "\n"

#
# still got many things to do right here...
#

sys.exit()


From meyer at acm.org  Wed Apr  7 10:56:39 2004
From: meyer at acm.org (Andre Meyer)
Date: 7 Apr 2004 07:56:39 -0700
Subject: Dynamic creation of an object instance of a class by name
Message-ID: <10f99b0f.0404070656.5960e2c8@posting.google.com>

Hi all

I have been searching everywhere for this, but have not found a
solution, yet.

What I need is to create an object that is an instance of a class (NOT a
class instance!) of which I only know the name as a string. This what I
tried:

class A:
    def __init__(self, id):
       self.id = id
    def getID(self):
      print self.id

ca = new.classobj('A', (), {})
oa1 = ca()
oa2 = new.instance(ca)

oa1
<__main__.A instance at 0x007E8AF8>

oa1.getID()
Traceback (most recent call last):
   File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
AttributeError: A instance has no attribute 'getID'

oa2
<__main__.A instance at 0x007E8AF8>

oa2.getID()
Traceback (most recent call last):
   File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
AttributeError: A instance has no attribute 'getID'


Thus, both ways only produce a class instance, but NOT an object of that
class!!! How can I get a new object instance???
What else needs to be filled in for base_classes and __dict__ in
new.classobj?


Any help is appreciated, this is driving me nuts!

kind regards
Andre


From __peter__ at web.de  Wed Apr  7 11:41:48 2004
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Wed, 07 Apr 2004 17:41:48 +0200
Subject: Dynamic creation of an object instance of a class by name
References: <10f99b0f.0404070656.5960e2c8@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <c517fs$jk3$01$1@news.t-online.com>

Andre Meyer wrote:

> I have been searching everywhere for this, but have not found a
> solution, yet.
> 
> What I need is to create an object that is an instance of a class (NOT a
> class instance!) of which I only know the name as a string. This what I
> tried:
> 
> class A:
>     def __init__(self, id):
>        self.id = id
>     def getID(self):
>       print self.id
> 
> ca = new.classobj('A', (), {})
> oa1 = ca()
> oa2 = new.instance(ca)
> 
> oa1
> <__main__.A instance at 0x007E8AF8>
> 
> oa1.getID()
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>    File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
> AttributeError: A instance has no attribute 'getID'
> 
> oa2
> <__main__.A instance at 0x007E8AF8>
> 
> oa2.getID()
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>    File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
> AttributeError: A instance has no attribute 'getID'
> 
> 
> Thus, both ways only produce a class instance, but NOT an object of that
> class!!! How can I get a new object instance???
> What else needs to be filled in for base_classes and __dict__ in
> new.classobj?
> 
> 
> Any help is appreciated, this is driving me nuts!
> 
> kind regards
> Andre

Don't listen to the voices whispering "Use eval()" or "globals() are the way
to go", make it clean and explicit with a dictionary containing all classes
you want to expose:

>>> class A: pass
...
>>> class B: pass
...
>>> class C: pass
...
>>> exposed = dict(A=A, B=B, C=C)
>>> exposed["A"]()

:-)

Peter



From python at rcn.com  Sun Apr  4 00:44:38 2004
From: python at rcn.com (Raymond Hettinger)
Date: 3 Apr 2004 21:44:38 -0800
Subject: Python is faster than C
References: <406F0907.96F37EA1@tunes.org>
Message-ID: <5d83790c.0404032144.482787bd@posting.google.com>

[Armin Rigo] 
> >>> enumerate([6,7,8,9])         # uh ?
> <enumerate object at 0x401a102c>

This got me thinking about how much I would like to see the contents
of an iterator at the interactive prompt.

I wonder if the read-eval-print loop could be trained to make a better
display:

# rough pseudo-code sketch
while 1:
    command = raw_input()
    result = eval(command)
    if result is None:
        continue
    if is_iterator(result):
        result, copy = itertools.tee(result)
        print "<%s object at 0x%8x:" % 
                (type(result).__name__, id(result)),
        for elem in itertools.islice(copy, 3):
            print repr(elem), 
        else:
            print '...',
        print '>'
    else:
        print repr(result)
    _ = result


# intended result
>>> enumerate('abcdefgh')
<enumerate object at 0x401a102c:  (0, 'a') (1, 'b') (2, 'c') ...>
>>> list(_)
[(0, 'a'), (1, 'b'), (2, 'c'), (3, 'd'), (4, 'e'), (5, 'f'), (6, 'g'),
(7, 'h'), (8, 'i'), (9, 'j'), (10, 'k'), (11, 'l'), (12, 'm'), (13,
'n')]


Raymond Hettinger


From http  Fri Apr 16 01:57:48 2004
From: http (Paul Rubin)
Date: 15 Apr 2004 22:57:48 -0700
Subject: Python CPU? (Re: Python OS)
References: <107j4eu6ffn2c68@corp.supernews.com>
	<c5gc4n$s5q$1@swifty.westend.com>
	<c5nsct$3o9i6$1@ID-169208.news.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <7xisg0a2hv.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

Greg Ewing <greg at cosc.canterbury.ac.nz> writes:
> In one of my wilder daydreaming moments recently, I got to wondering
> what a machine designed from the ground up to run Python code might
> be like. I got a vision of a Python interpreter implemented in
> microcode, with a few extra bytecodes for low-level hardware access,
> with an OS written in Python running on top of it.

Been done already, more or less.

http://www.faqs.org/faqs/lisp-faq/part2/section-20.html

http://fare.tunes.org/LispM.html


From mhammond at keypoint.com.au  Thu Apr 29 20:17:48 2004
From: mhammond at keypoint.com.au (Mark Hammond)
Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2004 10:17:48 +1000
Subject: COM Interface Question
In-Reply-To: <9e5ea2c4.0404291130.72e81c2e@posting.google.com>
References: <9e5ea2c4.0404291130.72e81c2e@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <c6s5vn$1lv9$1@arachne.labyrinth.net.au>

Olaf Meding wrote:

> I am having trouble with the 'User' property (get and put), found near
> the bottom of the IDL file listed below.  The user get call seems to
> return None, not sure why.

Possibly as the property has no value yet.  After a successful set, you 
may find it works.

> More importantly, is there another way to get the 'IUser' value
> required for the user put call?  (Perhaps I need to make the put call
> before the get call).

It depends on the application - there will generally be either a progid 
(so Dispatch() can create one), or some technique in the object model 
for creating one.  The last alternative is that they expect you to 
implement this interface, but with the limited information available 
here, that sounds unlikely.

Mark.


From skip at pobox.com  Thu Apr 15 13:09:27 2004
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2004 12:09:27 -0500
Subject: Error with trace.py
In-Reply-To: <9396ba6f.0404131907.bc6280@posting.google.com>
References: <87brlvcwvv.fsf@news2.ososo.de>
	<9396ba6f.0404131907.bc6280@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <16510.49607.371438.753284@montanaro.dyndns.org>


    Stewart> I tried the example under Windows, since under Linux I only
    Stewart> have Python 2.2 which doesn't have trace.py.

I believe it's there, just under Tools/scripts.

Skip



From claird at lairds.com  Mon Apr 26 14:55:25 2004
From: claird at lairds.com (Cameron Laird)
Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2004 18:55:25 -0000
Subject: A python telnet entry level question
References: <mailman.893.1082600095.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<c685ob$da5$1@scotsman.ed.ac.uk>
	<108lr8jmr2u1202@corp.supernews.com>
	<c6j2ds$8jc$1@scotsman.ed.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <108qmotbhcauu84@corp.supernews.com>

In article <c6j2ds$8jc$1 at scotsman.ed.ac.uk>,
Eddie Corns <eddie at holyrood.ed.ac.uk> wrote:
			.
			.
			.
>And then you get unhelpful router manufacturers that put code in to check
>whether passwords are typed too fast (or regularly spaced) and ignore them
>because they're obviously not dealing with a human!  Took me ages to figure
>out why my scripts were failing (then about 10 seconds to defeat it).
>
>Yes, using telnet is more art than science but it's a lot better now than
>before we had expect (for heavy duty jobs) and telnetlib (for simpler jobs).
>
>Eddie

I entirely agree.  Expect and telnetlib definitely *do*
ease life's burdens.

The examples you cite are common enough that Don Libes,
creator and maintainer of the original Expect, became 
sufficiently expert in timing issues to make development
of "drunken typist" applications simple <URL:
http://expect.nist.gov/example/beer.exp >.
-- 

Cameron Laird <claird at phaseit.net>
Business:  http://www.Phaseit.net


From pepster at users.sourceforge.net  Fri Apr 23 03:36:08 2004
From: pepster at users.sourceforge.net (Joseph Heled)
Date: 23 Apr 2004 00:36:08 -0700
Subject: python extension, -pthreads and speed
Message-ID: <4fd1aa5e.0404222336.2a1347a8@posting.google.com>

Hi,

My python module is built using the recommended distutils.core, which
uses the -pthread flag. To my amazement this slows down the (-O3) code
by a factor of two (!2)

My gcc documentation says pthread is a PowerPC flag, but I guess this
is wrong.

Would my code fail if I drop this flag (Assuming I don't use threads
at all)?

Why would there be such a speed penalty?

Anyone can shed some light on that?

Thanks, Joseph

>python -V
Python 2.3

>gcc -v
Reading specs from /usr/local/lib/gcc-lib/i686-pc-linux-gnu/3.3/specs
Configured with: ../gcc-3.3/configure  : (reconfigured)
../gcc-3.3/configure --enable-languages=c,c++
Thread model: posix
gcc version 3.3


From stewart at midwinter.ca  Tue Apr 13 23:15:51 2004
From: stewart at midwinter.ca (Stewart Midwinter)
Date: 13 Apr 2004 20:15:51 -0700
Subject: ANN: Snakelets 1.24 (simple-to-use web app server with dynamic
	pages)
References: <407c6d15$0$562$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>
Message-ID: <9396ba6f.0404131915.7cef8607@posting.google.com>

Interesting! There is definitely a niche for an app server that is
simpler to use than Zope.  Could this be used for a simple CMS, i.e.
simpler than Plone?  If so, are you aware of any examples of such a
use?

thanks
Stewart


From sean_berry at cox.net  Mon Apr 12 14:20:27 2004
From: sean_berry at cox.net (Sean Berry)
Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2004 11:20:27 -0700
Subject: Easy question on error catching
Message-ID: <Syqec.51062$Vo.646@fed1read03>

I am still relativly new to python.

I have written a pretty extensive program that works like a charm, doing a
lot of operations on all incomming email.

My problem is this:
I have a portion of code that does some stuff with the date of the email.
However, beacause so many people forge things like dates in spam emails I am
getting an error when the program gets to the following line.

x = int(t)

In a couple of cases, people have forged the date to include words that have
nothing to do with the date.
I get a:
ValueError: invalid literal for int(): <stuff that is forged>

So, how do I catch this error so that I can do something else with it?

Is it as simple as
try:
    x = int(t)
except:
    something else

or do I need to catch a ValueError specifically?

Sorry about the easy question.  Thanks in advance.




From flgr at ccan.de  Mon Apr 26 15:58:07 2004
From: flgr at ccan.de (Florian Gross)
Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2004 21:58:07 +0200
Subject: How's ruby compare to it older brother python
In-Reply-To: <c6ich0$c5mee$1@ID-205437.news.uni-berlin.de>
References: <c6ich0$c5mee$1@ID-205437.news.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <c6jpju$d2t5d$1@ID-7468.news.uni-berlin.de>

Hunn E. Balsiche wrote:

> [Ruby, Python]
> I've given up on Perl for its ugly syntax and it is not the easiest language
> to learn. How about PHP?

All these suck. You guys should grow up and start programming in *real* 
programming languages like Befunge.

Oh, and you forgot to cross post to all the other 54 comp.lang groups.

And now: Can we please never have threads like this one ever again? 
We're getting them on a twice-per-month base right now which makes these 
topics get old and very uninteresting quickly.

PS: Don't take this too personal, but all this wouldn't have happened if 
you had searched in other resources before posting here.

Regards,
Florian Gross


From thorsten at thorstenkampe.de  Thu Apr 29 08:38:37 2004
From: thorsten at thorstenkampe.de (Thorsten Kampe)
Date: Thu, 29 Apr 2004 14:38:37 +0200
Subject: How to find the length of an iterator?
Message-ID: <1a6oinf1xl5ui$.dlg@thorstenkampe.de>

What is the best way to find out the length of an iterator? len()
doesn't work. In the above code snippet[1] I am only interested in the
index (= length of the iterator), so I'm using len(list(iterator))...

Anything better?

Thanks, Thorsten

[2]
def part(seq, func):
    from itertools import takewhile
    index = len(list(takewhile(func, seq)))
    return [seq[:index], seq[index:]]


From wweston at att.net  Thu Apr 29 11:14:49 2004
From: wweston at att.net (wes weston)
Date: Thu, 29 Apr 2004 15:14:49 GMT
Subject: why an exception
Message-ID: <JZ8kc.852$Ut1.21954@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>

Group,
    When I run the example, do File/New, and double click a line in the
list box; I get:

Exception in Tkinter callback
Traceback (most recent call last):
   File "/usr/local/Python/lib/python2.3/lib-tk/Tkinter.py", line 1345, in __call__
     return self.func(*args)
   File "/home/wes/jbproject/python/bowling/test.py", line 60, in EditSimpleText
     str = tkSimpleDialog.askstring('','enter str')
   File "/usr/local/Python/lib/python2.3/lib-tk/tkSimpleDialog.py", line 303, in askstring
     d = _QueryString(title, prompt, **kw)
   File "/usr/local/Python/lib/python2.3/lib-tk/tkSimpleDialog.py", line 281, in __init__
     _QueryDialog.__init__(self, *args, **kw)
   File "/usr/local/Python/lib/python2.3/lib-tk/tkSimpleDialog.py", line 179, in __init__
     Dialog.__init__(self, parent, title)
   File "/usr/local/Python/lib/python2.3/lib-tk/tkSimpleDialog.py", line 64, in __init__
     self.grab_set()
   File "/usr/local/Python/lib/python2.3/lib-tk/Tkinter.py", line 521, in grab_set
     self.tk.call('grab', 'set', self._w)
TclError: grab failed: window not viewable


I'm running redhat 9.0 and Python 2.3.3

Another user had a similar problem.
Any ideas?
#-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
from Tkinter import *
import time
import tkSimpleDialog

class MainWindowClass:
     def __init__(self):
         self.Top = Tk()
         self.Top.minsize( 200,200 )

         mainmenu = Menu(self.Top)

         submenu = Menu( mainmenu, tearoff=0 )

         submenu.add_command( label = "New"    , command = self.NewB )
         mainmenu.add_cascade( label = "File",menu = submenu )

         self.Top.config( menu=mainmenu )
         self.Top.mainloop()
     #--------------------------------------------------------------------
     def NewB(self):
         ball = Ball(self.Top)
#----------------------------------------------------------
class Ball:
     def __init__(self,top,ball=None):
         self.Top = Toplevel(top)
         self.Top.columnconfigure(0,weight=1)
         self.Top.rowconfigure(1   ,weight=1)

         self.vscrol = Scrollbar(self.Top,orient="vertical")
         self.vscrol.grid(row=1,column=1,sticky="ns")

         self.hscrol = Scrollbar(self.Top,orient="horizontal")
         self.hscrol.grid(row=2,column=0,sticky="ew")
         self.listbox = Listbox( self.Top,
                                 font='system.fixed 12',
                                 width=60,
                                 height=20,
                                 xscrollcommand=self.hscrol.set,
                                 yscrollcommand=self.vscrol.set,
                                 exportselection=0,
                                 selectmode=SINGLE
                                 )
         self.listbox.grid(row=1,column=0,sticky="nesw")

         self.vscrol.config(command=self.listbox.yview)
         self.hscrol.config(command=self.listbox.xview )

         label = Label(self.Top,anchor='w',font='system.fixed 12',text='heading')
         label.grid(row=0,column=0,sticky="ew")

         self.listbox.bind( "<Double-Button-1>",self.EditSimpleText )
         self.LabelList = [
         ( "Last Name                :","",self.EditSimpleText),
         ( "First Name               :","",self.EditSimpleText),
             ]
         for x in self.LabelList:
             self.listbox.insert(END,x[0]+ " " + x[1])
     #--------------------------------------------------------------------
     def EditSimpleText( self, event ):
         str = tkSimpleDialog.askstring('','enter str')
#----------------------------------------------------------
if __name__ == '__main__':
   w = MainWindowClass()



From jepler at unpythonic.net  Wed Apr 21 07:22:24 2004
From: jepler at unpythonic.net (Jeff Epler)
Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2004 06:22:24 -0500
Subject: Still trying to compile Ming (Flash) for windows :(
In-Reply-To: <3d06fae9.0404201243.92f176@posting.google.com>
References: <3d06fae9.0404201243.92f176@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <20040421112224.GD5589@unpythonic.net>

If you type simply
    gcc
at the command prompt, do you get an error that it's not found, or a
message like
    gcc: no input files
?  If you get a "not found" error, then you need to set your "PATH"
variable to include the directory where gcc.exe and other mingw
executables reside.

Jeff



From rnichol_rrc at yahoo.com  Thu Apr 15 01:50:11 2004
From: rnichol_rrc at yahoo.com (Reid Nichol)
Date: 14 Apr 2004 22:50:11 -0700
Subject: Saving a Canvas as other than PS
Message-ID: <cc2508e6.0404142150.2b9c90d0@posting.google.com>

Hello,
  I have been looking for a way to save a Canvas as a jpeg.  I know
that there is PIL but I need to draw polygons and the ImageDraw module
doesn't have the smooth option for its draw.polygon method and I need
that.  I'm on OpenBSD 3.4 with Python 2.2.1.

  Please help!


From afriere at yahoo.co.uk  Tue Apr 27 03:08:19 2004
From: afriere at yahoo.co.uk (Asun Friere)
Date: 27 Apr 2004 00:08:19 -0700
Subject: Is Perl *that* good?
References: <c6ich0$c5mee$1@ID-205437.news.uni-berlin.de>
	<iL3jc.232$Yc.2330@news4.e.nsc.no>
	<108q51j4dscn7dc@corp.supernews.com>
	<knbjc.267$id.3998@news2.e.nsc.no>
	<pan.2004.04.26.20.50.19.843510@hotmail.com>
	<87fzaqmm8t.fsf@strauser.com>
Message-ID: <38ec68a6.0404262308.50029919@posting.google.com>

Kirk Strauser <kirk at strauser.com> wrote in message news:<87fzaqmm8t.fsf at strauser.com>...

> I haven't noticed much of a different between Perl's regex and Python's
> re.py module, other than I'm now typing:
> 
>     pattern.match(string)
> 
> instead of
> 
>     string ~= pattern

How does pattern (in the python example) come to have a 'match'
method?

Wouldn't you need to import the re module and compile the pattern
first?  (And wouldn't you use 'search' rather than 'match'?)  And
other steps, depending on what you want to do with the resulting match
object.

Regex is much more 'immediate' in Perl.  Probably the only time I
would reach for Perl rather than for python is when I knew a task
involved a lot of regex (and no object orientation).


From anton at vredegoor.doge.nl  Thu Apr 22 22:46:05 2004
From: anton at vredegoor.doge.nl (Anton Vredegoor)
Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2004 04:46:05 +0200
Subject: AOP use cases
References: <cb035744.0404141130.170f51c4@posting.google.com><slrnc7sgat.vp.alf@largo.fayauffre.org><cb035744.0404160442.2f0b1661@posting.google.com><0pydnSB4WYuieuLdRVn-hQ@powergate.ca><tyfbrlkv3ae.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch><XYmdnVLB9rjbARrdRVn-vg@powergate.ca><tyf7jw8utoo.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch><c68fj5$7bt$1@news1.wdf.sap-ag.de><tyfvfjst2k9.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
	<tyffzav62ux.fsf@lxplus054.cern.ch>
	<mailman.934.1082681832.20120.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <40888443$0$126$3a628fcd@reader3.nntp.hccnet.nl>

"Terry Reedy" <tjreedy at udel.edu> wrote:

>Hmmm.  When I started this reply, I was going to emphasize that 'separating
>concerns' is much less efficient than more directly writing

The problem is *which* concerns are to be separated.

def fgen():
    #generate fibonacci sequence
    a,b = 0,1
    while 1:
        a,b = b,a+b
        yield a

def fib(n, L = [], g = fgen()):
    #interface with fibonacci generator
    if n < 0 :
        return 1
    while len(L) <= n:
        L.append(g.next())
    return L[n]

def test():
    print fib(500)

if __name__=='__main__':
    test()

Anton



From asdf at asdf.com  Thu Apr 22 18:05:39 2004
From: asdf at asdf.com (asdf sdf)
Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2004 22:05:39 GMT
Subject: python web programming / CMS
In-Reply-To: <9YWhc.82882$%l7.5377160@phobos.telenet-ops.be>
References: <EOOhc.82192$A9.5538906@phobos.telenet-ops.be>
	<mailman.910.1082637637.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<XnQhc.82310$X%7.5425202@phobos.telenet-ops.be>
	<0kVhc.54316$eB7.29255@newssvr25.news.prodigy.com>
	<9YWhc.82882$%l7.5377160@phobos.telenet-ops.be>
Message-ID: <TkXhc.54353$wn.10631@newssvr25.news.prodigy.com>

> Well, i'm assigned a project where i have to choose a intranet sollution
> and a platform for future webbased tools development.
> I'm trying to get a clear idea of what is possible.
> For the moment 2 kinds of setup are considered
> OpenCMS - JBoss - Apache - Tomcat
> or
> Plone - Zope - Apache - Spyce / modpython
> 

with modpython/spyce you can use your own python objects.

There's been a lot of discussion of Plone and Zope.  Check Slashdot. 
Both have a lot of rapid fans, but naysayers say they are too 
complicated and too slow.  Some say you're buy end user ease-of-use at 
the cost of administrative complexity.  you'll have to let me know what 
you find out.



From max at alcyone.com  Sun Apr 11 23:29:23 2004
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Sun, 11 Apr 2004 20:29:23 -0700
Subject: Is there a boolean(somestring) equivalent of 
 int(somestring).bool('false') -> True
References: <mailman.533.1081738820.20120.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <407A0D13.38FF952E@alcyone.com>

Vineet Jain wrote:

> How can anyone argue that
> 
> bool('false') = True
> 
> is more natural (and what you would expect) than
> 
> bool('false') = False

Because at some point in programming you (I mean the general "you," not
you specifically) actually have to hit the books and learn what
functions do.  A natural language that works simply and reasonably is
always a good thing, but that's not a _substitute_ for learning, it's an
assistant.

> Booleans are associated with (True, on, 1 and yes) and bool() on any
> them
> should return True.

No, because bool doesn't do this.  bool tests whether or not the
argument passed in is true according to the Python language, and returns
True if so; otherwise it returns False.  This is not the behavior you
want; you want to test whether or not the argument is a string which
looks like it might represent the concept of true.  That's for a
function you might call doesStringLookTrue, but not the bool
function/type.

After all, are you disturbed by this:

	if 'false':
	    print "This should never happen since the test is false"

executes the "then" statement?  If you are, then you don't understand
Python's concept of Booleans.  If you aren't, then you're trying to
_introduce_ an inconsistency, not solve one, because

	if x: ...

should always behave the same as

	if bool(x): ...

-- 
 __ Erik Max Francis && max at alcyone.com && http://www.alcyone.com/max/
/  \ San Jose, CA, USA && 37 20 N 121 53 W && AIM erikmaxfrancis
\__/ Whoever named it necking was a poor judge of anatomy.
    -- Groucho Marx


From jcarlson at uci.edu  Wed Apr  7 00:43:10 2004
From: jcarlson at uci.edu (Josiah Carlson)
Date: Tue, 06 Apr 2004 21:43:10 -0700
Subject: Capturing stdout incrementally
In-Reply-To: <uwu4szuga.fsf@fitlinxx.com>
References: <dHFbc.17935$656.789@newssvr27.news.prodigy.com>
	<c4nci9$pp3$1@news.service.uci.edu> <uwu4szuga.fsf@fitlinxx.com>
Message-ID: <c50138$op7$1@news.service.uci.edu>

>>>I am on Windows by the way, so the utilities are printing to the windows
>>>command shell.
>>
>>By default, popen in Windows buffers everything coming from the called
>>app.  I believe you can use various Windows system calls in pywin32 in
>>order to get line buffered output, but I've never done it, so have
>>little additional advice other than "check out pywin32".
> 
> 
> Typically this behavior on Windows (and at least in my experience on
> Unix) comes not from popen buffering its input from the called
> program, but the called program buffering its output when it isn't a
> normal console.  I'm not sure if this is default behavior from the C
> library, but it's particularly true of cross-platform code that often
> uses isatty() to check.

Your experience in unix has colored your impression of popen on Windows. 
  The trick with Windows is that pipes going to/from apps are not real 
file handles, nor do they support select calls (Windows select comes 
from Windows' underlying socket library).  If they did, then the Python 
2.4 module Popen5 would not be required.

Popen5 is supposed to allow the combination of os.popen and os.system on 
all platforms.  You get pollable pipes and the signal that the program 
ended with.  As for how they did it on Windows, I believe they are using 
pywin32 or ctypes.

  - Josiah


From peholmst at abo.fi  Thu Apr 15 03:56:17 2004
From: peholmst at abo.fi (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Petter_Holmstr=F6m?=)
Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2004 10:56:17 +0300
Subject: Getters and setters in python, common practise
Message-ID: <407e402c$1@newsflash.abo.fi>

Hello,

Having a Delphi/Object Pascal-background, I'm very used to using getters 
and setters when designing my classes. What is the common practise in 
the Python world? Should one use them or not?

Thanks in advance,

-Petter-



From joe at notcharles.ca  Wed Apr 14 20:26:42 2004
From: joe at notcharles.ca (Joe Mason)
Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2004 00:26:42 GMT
Subject: Aspect Programming Module
References: <84fc4588.0404140106.3fa0c55@posting.google.com>
	<slrnc7q1ss.1aa.alf@largo.fayauffre.org>
	<cb035744.0404141130.170f51c4@posting.google.com>
	<slrnc7rh3n.6oq.joe@gate.notcharles.ca>
	<donn-2EE58A.17041214042004@nntp1.u.washington.edu>
Message-ID: <slrnc7rll6.6v3.joe@gate.notcharles.ca>

In article <donn-2EE58A.17041214042004 at nntp1.u.washington.edu>, Donn Cave wrote:
> Have you been through the materials referred to there?
> [http://www.logilab.org/projects/aspects/] I didn't spend much time on
> it, but I didn't immediately recognize anything from the last time I
> heard about AOP, so I was led to wonder if it's a different notion
> going by the same name.

No - I don't have any particular need or interest in AOP at the moment,
so I haven't really looked at it.

> The one I remember allows objects to inherit from containers,
> more or less.  Your widget for example might inherit some
> drawing parameters from the window it belongs to.  I'm probably
> getting it mostly wrong, but then I wasn't very excited about
> the idea.  OOP is scary enough without compounding it this way.

The only example I've read was an intro using AspectJ
(http://www-106.ibm.com/developerworks/library/j-aspectj/) which logs
every function call.  That doesn't seem too scary.

Joe


From ptmcg at austin.rr._bogus_.com  Wed Apr  7 19:51:44 2004
From: ptmcg at austin.rr._bogus_.com (Paul McGuire)
Date: Wed, 07 Apr 2004 23:51:44 GMT
Subject: list comprehensions
References: <yjZcc.42823$Pk3.9547@pd7tw1no>
Message-ID: <ku0dc.74742$o_.33729@fe1.texas.rr.com>

"Elaine Jackson" <elainejackson7355 at home.com> wrote in message
news:yjZcc.42823$Pk3.9547 at pd7tw1no...
>
> List comprehensions don't work the way you intuitively expect them to
work. I
> realize many people have no intuitions about how list comprehensions
'should'
> work, so if you recognize yourself in this description, feel free to go
back to
> whatever you were doing before. If you're still here, though, I invite you
to
> consider the following definition:
>
> partitions = lambda n: [[n]]+[[k]+x for x in partitions(n-k) for k in
> range(1,n)]
>
> As defined above, the function raises an exception when you call it ('k'
> referenced before assignment). For the sake of clarity, here is workable
code
> expressing the same intention:
>
> def partitions(n):
>     reVal=[[n]]
>     for k in range(1,n):
>         for x in partitions(n-k):
>             reVal.append([k]+x)
>     return reVal
>
> So I guess what I want to ask is: Can somebody explain the semantics of
list
> comprehensions to me? Or even better: Can somebody tell me where to look
in the
> documentation to find out about list comprehensions? All donations
gratefully
> received.
>
> Peace
>
>
Elaine -

I suspect you wrote your listcomp by thinking this is an inversion of the
nested for loops.  That is, if you think of some arbitrary nesting of loops
as:

    for i in firstRange:
        for j in secondRange:
            for k in thirdRange:
                ...<as many more fors as you like>...
                    <build up list using i,j,k,...>

then you looked at the list comp as working its way inside out, since it
starts with the <build up list> part.

But as the other posters have already stated, even though the listcomp
starts with the most deeply nested body, the remaining 'for... for ...
for... ' clauses match the nested loops, as if you had just removed the
colons and copied them all onto one line.  So the listcomp ends up looking
like:

     [<build up list using i,j,k,...> for i in firstRange for j in
secondRange for k in thirdRange...]

If you want some kind of model for how to conceptualize this, then  I'd say
that a listcomp starts with its most important part being the actual list
element assembly/definition, followed by the iteration specifiers in
successive outer-to-inner order, that will get the loop variables to the
necessary values to satisfy the list assembly code.

You also asked for doc references.  The Python Tutorial includes an obscure
example (you have do a bit of in-your-head multiplication to get it), but
try these other articles describing listcomps when they were a new feature:
http://www-106.ibm.com/developerworks/linux/library/l-py20.html
http://python.org/2.0/new-python.html#SECTION000600000000000000000
Perhaps the tutorial could lift some of the examples from these other pages,
as I'm sure people don't necessarily go back to the "What's New" pages for
version x-2, x-3, etc.

HTH,
-- Paul






From kraus at hagen-partner.de  Thu Apr  1 03:44:48 2004
From: kraus at hagen-partner.de (Wolfram Kraus)
Date: Thu, 01 Apr 2004 10:44:48 +0200
Subject: From python-dev, space vs. tab controversy finally settled
In-Reply-To: <BrPac.5729$xw6.2105@fe1.columbus.rr.com>
References: <BrPac.5729$xw6.2105@fe1.columbus.rr.com>
Message-ID: <c4gkpi$4fg$1@ork.noris.net>

Heyho!

Carl Banks wrote:
> Here's a summary of the final decision Guido made concerning how
> Python will indent code in the future, from python-dev:
> 
> Guido had been planning to deprecate tabs in favor of spaces for
> awhile, although there have been good arguments for both tabs and
> spaces.  But he was never really comfortable pulling the rug out from
> half the user base.  However, today he finally decided on a compromise
> that has all the benefits of both spaces and tabs.
> 
[...]

> So, you should start using Unicode character 0009 to indent right
> away.  Python 2.4 will deprecate all indentation not using the new
> indent character, and Python 3.0 will not support any other
> indentation.
> 

Nah, this sucks! This will be the death of Python! I'm switching to 
Whitespace: http://compsoc.dur.ac.uk/whitespace/

Stay Rude!
Wolfram



From jepler at unpythonic.net  Sat Apr 10 11:10:37 2004
From: jepler at unpythonic.net (Jeff Epler)
Date: Sat, 10 Apr 2004 10:10:37 -0500
Subject: Static Data?
In-Reply-To: <2FTdc.56817$Id.5813@news-binary.blueyonder.co.uk>
References: <2FTdc.56817$Id.5813@news-binary.blueyonder.co.uk>
Message-ID: <20040410151036.GA22719@unpythonic.net>

class Counted:
    _ID = 0

    def __init__(self):
        Counted._ID += 1
        self._ID = Counted._ID

>>> o1, o2, o3 = [Counted() for i in range(3)]
>>> [o._ID for o in (o1, o2, o3)]
[1, 2, 3]

Jeff



From opengeometry at yahoo.ca  Mon Apr 26 14:11:10 2004
From: opengeometry at yahoo.ca (William Park)
Date: 26 Apr 2004 18:11:10 GMT
Subject: How to debug CGI scripts with simulated variables from server?
References: <670jc.100949$U83.74356@fed1read03>
Message-ID: <c6jjbu$c7s2n$2@ID-99293.news.uni-berlin.de>

Sean Berry <sean_berry at cox.net> wrote:
> I want to debug a script that has a line like the following:
> if len(os.environ["QUERY_STRING"]) > 0:
> 
> How do I debug this from the command line.  I tried
> QUERY_STRING='sized=72&shaped=3' ./aqua_getShapes
> 
> But that returns:
> QUERY_STRING=sized=72&shaped=3: Command not found.

Works fine here (Slackware-9.1 Linux, bash-2.05b).  Try
    export QUERY_STRING=...
    ./aqua_getShapes

-- 
William Park, Open Geometry Consulting, <opengeometry at yahoo.ca>
Linux solution/training/migration, Thin-client


From db3l at fitlinxx.com  Fri Apr 23 15:16:50 2004
From: db3l at fitlinxx.com (David Bolen)
Date: 23 Apr 2004 15:16:50 -0400
Subject: Multi-threaded printing and IOErrors in Windows
References: <10nll1-rt5.ln1@home.rogerbinns.com>
	<c6acl7$7u8$1@ctb-nnrp2.saix.net>
	<ri4nl1-n9d.ln1@home.rogerbinns.com>
Message-ID: <uad12y065.fsf@fitlinxx.com>

"Roger Binns" <rogerb at rogerbinns.com> writes:

> David Fraser wrote:
> > sys.stdout is not threadsafe - try wrapping each call with a mutext and
> > see if that fixes it...
> 
> Having to wrap hundreds of random print statements just using for
> debugging seems really silly.  Note that I don't care if the
> output gets garbled.  (It doesn't on Mac or Linux ever).

To follow up on this point to my previous reply - I've never found
sys.stdout not to be threadsafe, at least in terms of how I mean
"threadsafe" - that is generating exceptions or crashes.

If instead, threadsafe is meant to imply atomic I/O (guaranteed output
of entire I/O as a unit) which is a broader definition, then yes, it
is definitely true that multiple threads all using sys.stdout may have
their output interleaved, particularly when you are using the 'print'
statement, since a single print statement generates multiple
individual writes to sys.stdout, generally for each argument, as well
as the trailing newline.

-- David


From Kuser-admin at kde.gr.jp  Wed Apr  7 01:32:43 2004
From: Kuser-admin at kde.gr.jp (Kuser-admin at kde.gr.jp)
Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2004 14:32:43 +0900
Subject: Fml status report (Kuser ML)
References: <20040407053233.4E9611F8035@mail.kde.gr.jp>
Message-ID: <200404071432.FMLAAB30905.Kuser@kde.gr.jp>

ATTENTION! Your mail is too big, so not processed!!!
This ML <Kuser at kde.gr.jp> restricts the maximum mail size,
so pay attention to the mail with e.g. attachments.

--Kuser at kde.gr.jp, Be Seeing You!    

************************************************************

       Help: <mailto:Kuser-ctl at kde.gr.jp?body=help>
Unsubscribe: <mailto:Kuser-ctl at kde.gr.jp?body=unsubscribe>

If you have any questions or problems,
   please contact Kuser-admin at kde.gr.jp
       or 
   send e-mail with the body "help"(without quotes) to
      Kuser-ctl at kde.gr.jp
      (here is the automatic reply, so more preferable)

e.g. on a Unix Machine
(shell prompt)% echo "help" |Mail Kuser-ctl at kde.gr.jp

************************************************************




From peter at engcorp.com  Thu Apr 15 05:52:18 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2004 05:52:18 -0400
Subject: Difficulty Finding Python Developers
In-Reply-To: <1081975009.10988.2@ersa.uk.clara.net>
References: <65cbc3dd.0404140641.3501fde8@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.619.1081956829.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<1081975009.10988.2@ersa.uk.clara.net>
Message-ID: <KaWdnfJQEY7PxuPdRVn-sA@powergate.ca>

Garry Knight wrote:

> In message <mailman.619.1081956829.20120.python-list at python.org>, Mike C.
> Fletcher wrote:
> 
>> I'm an alumni, so UofW is obviously not all it's cracked up to be ;)
> 
> Apparently not. 'Alumni' is the plural form. You're an alumnus.  :o)

(He was using the _royal_ "alumnus", as they say... ;-)

Actually the Fletcher-bot combines experimental technologies (note
the plural ;-) of the PSU which simulate combining the programming
patterns of the other extent bots.  The Fletch-bot is still in
beta form since it has not managed to produce the sheer verbosity
required from a bot, though it does successfully emulate managing
a large number of open source projects simultaneously.  The PSU
has plans to use the time machine to incorporate the Fletch-bot into


From mwh at python.net  Wed Apr 28 07:50:45 2004
From: mwh at python.net (Michael Hudson)
Date: Wed, 28 Apr 2004 11:50:45 GMT
Subject: Embedding OCaml within Python
References: <37aad18.0404280019.500e2841@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <m3oepcwcbu.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk>

max_powers280 at hotmail.com (Max Powers) writes:

> Alternatively I think I can wrap the ocaml library in a C wrapper
> and then call that from python.

Not knowing much about the situation, this is probably the simplest
thing to do... depends on how complicated the data you want to pass
between the two parts of the program is.

Cheers,
mwh

-- 
  ... Windows proponents tell you that it will solve things that
  your Unix system people keep telling you are hard.  The Unix 
  people are right: they are hard, and Windows does not solve 
  them, ...                            -- Tim Bradshaw, comp.lang.lisp


From peter at engcorp.com  Mon Apr 26 11:56:28 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2004 11:56:28 -0400
Subject: AOP use cases
In-Reply-To: <ywrfzaq21r6.fsf@ioka.flux.utah.edu>
References: <84fc4588.0404140106.3fa0c55@posting.google.com>
	<slrnc7q1ss.1aa.alf@largo.fayauffre.org>
	<cb035744.0404141130.170f51c4@posting.google.com>
	<slrnc7sgat.vp.alf@largo.fayauffre.org>
	<cb035744.0404160442.2f0b1661@posting.google.com>
	<0pydnSB4WYuieuLdRVn-hQ@powergate.ca>
	<tyfbrlkv3ae.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
	<XYmdnVLB9rjbARrdRVn-vg@powergate.ca>
	<cb035744.0404220802.5adc5a5a@posting.google.com>
	<ywrekqebp7m.fsf@ioka.flux.utah.edu>
	<cb035744.0404252356.167b4f75@posting.google.com>
	<ywrfzaq21r6.fsf@ioka.flux.utah.edu>
Message-ID: <lNadndXvs_GxrBDdRVn-vA@powergate.ca>

Eric Eide wrote:

> Should we
> consider Python's support for OOP evidence that Python is defective in some way
> with respect to Scheme, and that Scheme is therefore "a better designed
> programming language" because it "needs" neither AOP nor OOP?

But isn't that exactly true?  <0.1 wink only>

-Peter


From rnikaREMOVEnder at adelphia.net  Tue Apr 20 23:54:12 2004
From: rnikaREMOVEnder at adelphia.net (Rob Nikander)
Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 20:54:12 -0700
Subject: Dealing with multiple versions of packages...
In-Reply-To: <62c819a5.0404201235.c1649c5@posting.google.com>
References: <62c819a5.0404201235.c1649c5@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <t6udnTZ9wZDCbRjdRVn-gQ@adelphia.com>

I haven't heard of a standard way to do it.

I downloaded PyGTK 2.0.x a while back and I remember looking at a 
package structure that looked like it was designed to do this.  You 
might want to check that for ideas.  (I don't have it on my machine now.)

Also I was using a python module today that behaved differently upon 
import, depending on a property of "sys".  Like:

import sys
sys.coinit_flags = 0
import pythoncom # initializes COM with sys.coinit_flags

In your case wx could be a package with an __init__.py that imported 
subpackages depending on what version was set (with a default of 
course).  To import packages based on a string variable you have to use 
__import__.

You could also set PYTHONPATH to the version you want. ?

Rob



From maxm at mxm.dk  Tue Apr 20 03:44:56 2004
From: maxm at mxm.dk (Max M)
Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 09:44:56 +0200
Subject: CamelCase versus wide_names (Prothon)
In-Reply-To: <6ee58e07.0404192141.2229efd6@posting.google.com>
References: <UHxfc.9323$dZ1.3740@fed1read04>
	<6ee58e07.0404192141.2229efd6@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <4084d50a$0$209$edfadb0f@dread12.news.tele.dk>

Lothar Scholz wrote:

> "Mark Hahn" <mark at prothon.org> wrote in message news:<UHxfc.9323$dZ1.3740 at fed1read04>...

> After writing a few hundert thousands lines of code in Eiffel and a
> few ten thousands lines in Java i must say that lowercase wide_names
> are much much better to read. Someone else already mentioned this
> problem:
> 
>    smtp_message <-> SMTPMessage <-> SmtpMessage


I would like to add that while I started out being enthisiastic about 
camelcase I have switched to using wide names for variable and attributes.

So my code mostly looks like

class ThisIsAClass

     thisIsAMethod()

         this_is_a_variable

         self.and_a_paramater

But lately I have noticed that i am switching to wide names for methods too.

This has not been a concious choice, just the way I have come to like 
it. So I guess that my favourite is wide names.


regards Max M


From piet at cs.uu.nl  Sat Apr  3 12:53:09 2004
From: piet at cs.uu.nl (Piet van Oostrum)
Date: 03 Apr 2004 19:53:09 +0200
Subject: Working with bytes.
References: <mailman.301.1081009879.20120.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <wz1xn5rlru.fsf@Ordesa.local>

>>>>> "Adam T. Gautier" <adam_gautier at yahoo.com> (ATG) wrote:

ATG> I have been unable to solve a problem.  I am working with MD5 signatures
ATG> trying to put these in a database.  The MD5 signatures are not generated
ATG> using the python md5 module but an external application that is producing
ATG> the valid 16 byte signature formats.  Anyway, these 16 byte signatures are
ATG> not nescarrally valid strings.  How do I manipulate the bytes?  I need to
ATG> concatenate the bytes with a SQL statement which is a string.  This works
ATG> fine for most of the md5 signatures but some blow up with a TypeError.
ATG> Because there is a NULL byte or something else.  So I guess my ultimate
ATG> question is how do I get a prepared SQL statement to accept a series of
ATG> bytes?  How do I convert the bytes to a valid string like:

ATG> 'x%L9d\340\316\262\363\037\311\345<\262\357\215'

ATG> that can be concatenated?

Depends what the database accepts. If it supports BLOBs you could use
that. Otherwise convert them to hex, or base64.
See for example the the codecs module or the binascii module.

-- 
Piet van Oostrum <piet at cs.uu.nl>
URL: http://www.cs.uu.nl/~piet [PGP]
Private email: P.van.Oostrum at hccnet.nl


From ivoras at __geri.cc.fer.hr  Mon Apr 26 20:28:32 2004
From: ivoras at __geri.cc.fer.hr (Ivan Voras)
Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2004 02:28:32 +0200
Subject: How to read a file from another server?  Newbie
In-Reply-To: <9ugjc.3709$g31.1370@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net>
References: <%Oejc.16$ph.9@fed1read07>
	<9ugjc.3709$g31.1370@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <c6k9fh$3t9$1@bagan.srce.hr>

Edward Diener wrote:

> Sean Berry wrote:
> 
>>I am trying to read in a file from another server.
>>
>>If I try
>>x = open("servername:/path/to/file", "r")
> 
> 
> x = open("servername://path/to/file", "r")

Um, what does this to? What protocol does it use?


From jdhunter at ace.bsd.uchicago.edu  Mon Apr 12 22:32:02 2004
From: jdhunter at ace.bsd.uchicago.edu (John Hunter)
Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2004 21:32:02 -0500
Subject: plot+interaction
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0404121715550.2090@bucky.wustl.edu> (Mark
	Alford's message of "Mon, 12 Apr 2004 17:17:27 -0500 (CDT)")
References: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0404121715550.2090@bucky.wustl.edu>
Message-ID: <m24qrofw0t.fsf@mother.paradise.lost>

>>>>> "Mark" == Mark Alford <alford at wuphys.wustl.edu> writes:

    Mark> I have been using the gnuplot.py package for simple 2D
    Mark> plots.  Works great. But I would like to have a tiny bit of
    Mark> interactivity:

    Mark> I would like the program to know where (in terms of the plot
    Mark> variables x and y) the user has mouse-clicked on the plot
    Mark> window.

    Mark> Is there any other plotting package that offers this
    Mark> functionality?

You can do this in matplotlib, albeit with a little extra work.
matplotlib has different backends, and the way you do this is
dependent on the backend.  Ie, if you are using Tk versus GTK versus
WX the approach is somewhat different, but this will probably be
unified in the near future.

Here is an example showing how to connect mouse move or mouse click to
return the data coordinates of the mouse location using the GTK
backend.


"""
An example of how to interact with the plotting canvas by connecting
to move and click events
"""
import matplotlib
matplotlib.use('GTK')
from matplotlib.matlab import *

t = arange(0.0, 1.0, 0.01)
s = sin(2*pi*t)
ax = subplot(111)
ax.plot(t,s)

canvas = get_current_fig_manager().canvas

def on_move(widget, event):
    # get the x and y coords, flip y from top to bottom
    height = canvas.figure.bbox.y.interval()
    x, y = event.x, height-event.y

    if ax.in_axes(x, y):
        # transData transforms data coords to display coords.  Use the
        # inverse method to transform back
        t = ax.xaxis.transData.inverse_positions(x)
        val = ax.yaxis.transData.inverse_positions(y)
        print t, val

def on_click(widget, event):
    # get the x and y coords, flip y from top to bottom
    height = canvas.figure.bbox.y.interval()
    x, y = event.x, height-event.y
    if event.button==1:
        if ax.in_axes(x, y):
            # transData transforms data coords to display coords.  Use the
            # inverse method to transform back
            t = ax.xaxis.transData.inverse_positions(x)
            val = ax.yaxis.transData.inverse_positions(y)
        
            print t, val


canvas.connect('motion_notify_event', on_move)
canvas.connect('button_press_event', on_click)



show()




From news at woody.datatailors.com  Thu Apr 22 09:35:24 2004
From: news at woody.datatailors.com (Peter van Kampen)
Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2004 15:35:24 +0200
Subject: python web programming / CMS
References: <EOOhc.82192$A9.5538906@phobos.telenet-ops.be>
Message-ID: <slrnc8figs.hq6.news@woody.datatailors.com>

In article <EOOhc.82192$A9.5538906 at phobos.telenet-ops.be>, news.telenet.be wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> i'm looking at python to do programming for the new intranet
> here at the company. I'm looking at plone/zope also.
> Before, I've used jsp for webprogramming but i'm considering
> python for this.
> One thing that isn't clear to me is if it's possible to include python
> code in a html page like you would do with jsp and then have zope
> "translate" that to html. With jsp, one could use an apache/tomcat
> combo to accomplish this.

Look at PSP. See www.modpython.org for mor information.

> If one can't include python in html, is Zope the only alternative and
> how does code look like then?

By no means. For more info start here: http://www.python.org/sigs/web-sig/

Hth,

PterK


-- 
Peter van Kampen
pterk -- at -- datatailors.com


From jcarlson at uci.edu  Wed Apr 21 02:59:59 2004
From: jcarlson at uci.edu (Josiah Carlson)
Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 23:59:59 -0700
Subject: No built-in swap function?
In-Reply-To: <mailman.822.1082526479.20120.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.822.1082526479.20120.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <c656c7$7nq$1@news.service.uci.edu>

> The xorswap function is not much use for anything other than numbers,
> however, I would have expected a psyco'ed xorSwap to much faster than
> the alternatives!

You are testing function calling overhead.  Try the below...

import time

def tupleswap(a,b):
     t = time.time()
     for i in xrange(100000):
         a,b=b,a;a,b=b,a;a,b=b,a;a,b=b,a;a,b=b,a;
         a,b=b,a;a,b=b,a;a,b=b,a;a,b=b,a;a,b=b,a;
     print "1 million tuple swaps in", time.time()-t, "seconds."

def tempswap(a,b):
     s = time.time()
     for i in xrange(100000):
         t=a;a=b;b=a;t=a;a=b;b=a;t=a;a=b;b=a;t=a;a=b;b=a;t=a;a=b;b=a;
         t=a;a=b;b=a;t=a;a=b;b=a;t=a;a=b;b=a;t=a;a=b;b=a;t=a;a=b;b=a;
     print "1 million temp swaps in", time.time()-s, "seconds."

def xorswap(a,b):
     t = time.time()
     for i in xrange(100000):
         a^=b;b^=a;a^=b;a^=b;b^=a;a^=b;a^=b;b^=a;a^=b;a^=b;b^=a;a^=b;
         a^=b;b^=a;a^=b;a^=b;b^=a;a^=b;a^=b;b^=a;a^=b;a^=b;b^=a;a^=b;
         a^=b;b^=a;a^=b;a^=b;b^=a;a^=b;
     print "1 million xor swaps in", time.time()-t, "seconds."

a = 2**30-1
b = 2**16-1
tupleswap(a,b)
tempswap(a,b)
xorswap(a,b)

Without Psyco (on a celeron 400):
1 million tuple swaps in 1.10899996758 seconds.
1 million temp swaps in 0.703000068665 seconds.
1 million xor swaps in 2.14099979401 seconds.

With Psyco (on a celeron 400):
1 million tuple swaps in 0.0 seconds.
1 million temp swaps in 0.0 seconds.
1 million xor swaps in 0.0 seconds.

Having 100 times as many loops for the Psyco run (xrange(10000000))...
1 million tuple swaps in 0.125 seconds.
1 million temp swaps in 0.125 seconds.
1 million xor swaps in 1.04699993134 seconds.


Looks like a big win for Psyco to me.

  - Josiah


From kfast at poczta.onet.pl  Wed Apr 14 17:11:41 2004
From: kfast at poczta.onet.pl (Jakub Fast)
Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2004 23:11:41 +0200
Subject: Does Python compete with Java?
In-Reply-To: <c5k72f$hod$06$1@news.t-online.com>
References: <8b336527.0404051337.51bb4a1b@posting.google.com>	<c4taac$2lg0bc$1@ID-169208.news.uni-berlin.de>	<e838aa6e.0404071426.7192e8e4@posting.google.com>	<slrnc79idf.hij.ramen@lackingtalent.com>	<e838aa6e.0404130748.1d8e1ddf@posting.google.com>	<mailman.585.1081876373.20120.python-list@python.org>	<c5hmtq$6eh$06$1@news.t-online.com>	<mailman.597.1081904808.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<c5k72f$hod$06$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <407DA90D.3000307@poczta.onet.pl>

> Certainly. Write a PEP, and an implementation.

I cosider myself silenced :).

[but then, i'd have trouble filling the "Disadvantages" section in the 
PEP...]

> Alternatively, write a different parser front end that converts your
> enriched language into standard Python.

i did think of that :).

kuba



From loic at fejoz.net  Fri Apr  9 05:10:57 2004
From: loic at fejoz.net (Yermat)
Date: Fri, 09 Apr 2004 11:10:57 +0200
Subject: Function args
In-Reply-To: <c55nvm$hks$1@news-reader4.wanadoo.fr>
References: <sdqdc.37060$zm5.15866@nntpserver.swip.net>
	<c55f5r$f2l$1@news-reader4.wanadoo.fr>
	<c55g8u$vvg$1@s1.read.news.oleane.net>
	<c55li7$oet$2@arcturus.ciril.fr>
	<c55nvm$hks$1@news-reader4.wanadoo.fr>
Message-ID: <c55pcd$f0e$1@arcturus.ciril.fr>

Michel Claveau/Hamster wrote:
> Bonjour !
> 
> 
>>>>En gros, tous les types primitifs de python sont "expans?s", autrement
> 
> dit quand on les affecte ? une autre variable, c'est une copie. Tous les
> types complexes sont des r?f?rences.
> 
> Je comprend, mais, dans mon esprit, je pr?f?re me dire qu'il y a copie de ce
> qui est point?. Pour une variable simple (e.g.  a=2)  c'est l'objet '2' qui
> est point?, et donc, copi?. Dans le cas d'une liste, la liste pointe sur un
> ensemble de pointeurs vers diff?rents objets, et donc, on copie ces
> pointeurs (qui sont point?s).
> 
> Malheureusement, mon point de vue accroche sur les tuples (non modifiables).
> Je me dis alors que les tuples sont non modifiables par exception...
> 
> 
> Cela revient un peu au m?me que ce que tu as exprim?, avec une image mentale
> un peu diff?rente.
> 
> 
> @-salutations
> --
> Michel Claveau
> 
> 

Oui je comprends bien mais si j'ai bien compris votre repr?sentation que 
devrait faire ceci :
 >>> l = ['a','b','c']
 >>>
 >>> d = l
 >>> d.append('d')
 >>> d
['a', 'b', 'c', 'd']

Que devrait valoir l maintenant ? Python fait :
 >>> l
['a', 'b', 'c', 'd']

votre repr?sentation ferait :
['a','b','c']

Mais bon. L'important est d'avoir compris ;-)

Yermat



From limorh at Spediant.com  Thu Apr 22 03:27:02 2004
From: limorh at Spediant.com (limor)
Date: 22 Apr 2004 00:27:02 -0700
Subject: Python use large scale projects
Message-ID: <47fc6058.0404212327.24163290@posting.google.com>

Hi,
I am considering using Python in a new testing tool application we
intend to build for out product.
I must get references before starting develope in this language ,
since although lots of good things are said about this language , I
still have my doubts how can it compete with languages like C++ and
Java.
I have found te sytax and some features if the language not as
problematic in maintenance prospective (although I keep reading the
contrary everywhere I read somthing about python) . For people who are
used to write in C and C++ I think the python being typless makes the
code hard to maintain.

But still, In many prespective the language seems to really suit my
needs and I would really like to talk with people who are using Python
in their company to medium-large scale project.

I'd really like to talk with someone who is using this language in his
work for large scale projects.
10x allot for whoe ever reply me on that.
With Regards,
limor.
Spediant Systems Ltd.
Igal Alon 126 TA, Israel.


From max at alcyone.com  Fri Apr 16 07:02:53 2004
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2004 04:02:53 -0700
Subject: (For gurus) Embed functions in webpages like in PHP?
References: <5eq4l1-9vm.ln1@pilz.hasos.com>
Message-ID: <407FBD5D.7BC197F@alcyone.com>

Robert Ferber wrote:

> As far as I've seen, there is no way to embed Python-code in a webpage
> with
> "<? ?>" or anything equivalent and I don't see any other way to solve
> this
> problem.

There are a number of templating systems available in Python.  EmPy is
one of them:

	http://www.alcyone.com/software/empy/

-- 
 __ Erik Max Francis && max at alcyone.com && http://www.alcyone.com/max/
/  \ San Jose, CA, USA && 37 20 N 121 53 W && AIM erikmaxfrancis
\__/ A wise man never loses anything if he have himself.
    -- Montaigne


From maredudd at tiscali.co.uk  Wed Apr 14 12:25:53 2004
From: maredudd at tiscali.co.uk (John)
Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2004 17:25:53 +0100
Subject: Unable to find libraries after installing with RPM and then with
	source code
Message-ID: <407d6b22_2@mk-nntp-2.news.uk.tiscali.com>

I'm using RedHat Fedora and installed Python 2.2 using an RPM.  I then built
and installed Python 2.3 using "./configure", "make" and "make install".  A
lot of programs won't run now and give me the following error message:

Could not find platform independent libraries <prefix>
Could not find platform dependent libraries <exec-prefix>
Consider settint $PYTHONHOME to <prefix[:<exec_prefix>]
.....
ImportError: No module named getopt (or some other module name)

The reason for this is that it is trying to import from /usr/lib/python2.2
but these modules are now in /usr/local/lib/python2.3.  Is there any way of
getting these programs to look in the right place for these modules?  Did I
install the latest version incorrectly?  Do I perhaps need to uninstall all
the packages that use python2.2 and reinstall them?

Thanks for any help




From asldfkjasldfj at asldfkjasldkfjasdf.com  Sat Apr 17 12:53:03 2004
From: asldfkjasldfj at asldfkjasldkfjasdf.com (Jason)
Date: Sat, 17 Apr 2004 16:53:03 GMT
Subject: os.path.dirname adds unremoveable spaces?
Message-ID: <Xns94CE7B19D78E7nonenonecom@24.93.43.119>

Here's the code I'm using:

####################################
import os, string
for root, dirs, files in os.walk('/home/_Comedy'):
        for file in files:
                str = os.path.dirname(file)
                print root, str.strip(), "/", file.strip()

####################################
The problem is that even after using strip(), it still prints a list like 
this:


/home/_Comedy/ISIRTA  / ISIRTA - 1966.03.28 - s02e03 - Ali Baba.mp3
/home/_Comedy/ISIRTA  / ISIRTA - 1966.04.04 - s02e04 - Nelson.mp3
/home/_Comedy/ISIRTA  / ISIRTA - 1966.04.18 - s02e06 - Angus Prune.mp3  
	    	         ^^^^^
    	    	    	    ^^^^^
I can't remove these mystery spaces that I'm pointing to no matter what I 
try.  Neither the directories or filenames have spaces before or after 
them.  Even if they did, they should've been removed when I used the strip 
command.

Any ideas?


From sean_berry at cox.net  Wed Apr 28 20:50:27 2004
From: sean_berry at cox.net (Sean Berry)
Date: Wed, 28 Apr 2004 17:50:27 -0700
Subject: sorting a list
References: <f046efac.0403091513.3b392074@posting.google.com>
	<17i4tmtsfvae9$.dlg@thorstenkampe.de>
Message-ID: <kjYjc.18326$Jy3.17150@fed1read03>

>>> a = ['A', 'D', 'F', 'a', 'f']
>>> a.sort(lambda x, y: cmp(string.lower(x), string.lower(y)))
>>> a
['a', 'A', 'D', 'f', 'F']

this will work too, if lower can come before upper.



But Thor
"Thorsten Kampe" <thorsten at thorstenkampe.de> wrote in message
news:17i4tmtsfvae9$.dlg at thorstenkampe.de...
> * ketulp_baroda at yahoo.com (2004-03-10 01:13 +0100)
> > I want to sort a list.
> > My problem is:
> >
> >>>> a=['a','f','F','A','D']
> >>>> a.sort()
> >>>> a
> > ['A','D', 'F', 'a', 'f']
> >
> > But I am actually looking for an output:
> > ['A','a','D','F','f']
> >
> > Is there any module to sort a list this way?
>
> You need a general approach:
>
> def funcsort(seq, func):
>     """ sort seq by func(item) """
>     seq = seq[:]
>     seq.sort(lambda x, y: cmp(func(x), func(y)))
>     return seq
>
> funcsort(a, lambda x: ord(x.upper()) + x.islower()/2.0)
>
>
> Thorsten




From donn at drizzle.com  Fri Apr  2 23:12:22 2004
From: donn at drizzle.com (Donn Cave)
Date: Sat, 03 Apr 2004 04:12:22 -0000
Subject: simple popen question
References: None <mailman.294.1080958697.20120.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1080965541.46978@yasure>

Quoth Jim Benson <jbenson at sextans.lowell.edu>:
| On Fri, 2 Apr 2004, Cameron Laird wrote:
...
|> In general, no; the reader doesn't control the buffering, the writer does.
|
| The reason i suspect popen is that when i run
| the executable from the unix shell...i see every
| output line ~ when expected. 

Well, the writer knows.  When you run it "from the shell", that
really means its output device is /dev/tty.  When you run it from
popen(), its output device is a pipe.  C library I/O, and hence
most application I/O, automatically treats these two devices
differently.  Or rather, it treats the tty specially, and treats
a pipe like any other file.  For the tty it uses line buffering,
for everything else block buffering.

There's a function that changes the policy - setbuffer I think may
be the contemporary standard, I think setbuf and setvbuf are historical
but don't count on me to get that straight.

	Donn Cave, donn at drizzle.com


From jacek.generowicz at cern.ch  Fri Apr  2 10:15:24 2004
From: jacek.generowicz at cern.ch (Jacek Generowicz)
Date: 02 Apr 2004 17:15:24 +0200
Subject: [OT] Top posting is a PITA [was : Prothon Prototypes vs Python
	Classes]
References: <569c605ld1cj8fc1emolk08ete0s1prls1@4ax.com>
	<v0r9c.38988$cx5.22021@fed1read04>
	<106di86neu1qh4d@news.supernews.com>
	<AHF9c.49048$cx5.33872@fed1read04> <c4akqh$gml$1@panix2.panix.com>
	<Sz8ac.68272$cx5.62681@fed1read04>
	<mailman.115.1080652873.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<4069a001$0$4237$afc38c87@news.easynet.co.uk>
	<4069e9d9$0$8915$636a15ce@news.free.fr>
	<406a98ee$0$290$edfadb0f@dread12.news.tele.dk>
	<mailman.166.1080729074.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<mpjl60hsp95qo5evu620t6kj1u0auplb68@4ax.com>
	<zyFac.57608$1A6.1296027@news20.bellglobal.com>
	<tyfr7v814ah.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
	<_QUac.63300$1A6.1594640@news20.bellglobal.com>
	<tyfbrma23js.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
	<1Vdbc.20271$j57.1135407@news20.bellglobal.com>
Message-ID: <tyfptaqza0j.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>

Markus Wankus <markus_wankusGETRIDOFALLCAPS at hotmail.com> writes:

> Let's all sit in our sensory deprivation tanks!  That sounds like fun! 
> Who here can construct metaclasses in the dark, in their head?

No problem. That's easy. It's typing them into an editor after I get
out where it always goes wrong :-)


From vineet at eswap.com  Mon Apr  5 20:44:52 2004
From: vineet at eswap.com (Vineet Jain)
Date: Mon, 5 Apr 2004 20:44:52 -0400
Subject: How to assign a default constant value in a function declaration
In-Reply-To: <Xns94C2ABE8727B7rzed@63.223.5.95>
Message-ID: <KPENJIMKHJPNKOLFIHBNOECFCGAA.vineet@eswap.com>

Thanks for all the repsonses. It turns out that the following actually
works:

def someFunction(option=Constants.DEFAULT_VALUE):

I did want the evaluate "Constants.DEFAULT_VALUE" function definition time.
If that changes at function call time then it should not be in Constants.

So all in all it works as expected and I have changed all hard coded default
arguments in my functions to Constant.* values.

Thanks for all your help.


VJ

-----Original Message-----
From: python-list-bounces+vineet=eswap.com at python.org
[mailto:python-list-bounces+vineet=eswap.com at python.org]On Behalf Of
rzed
Sent: Monday, April 05, 2004 3:52 PM
To: python-list at python.org
Subject: Re: How to assign a default constant value in a function
declaration


Scott David Daniels <Scott.Daniels at Acm.Org> wrote in
news:4071a362 at nntp0.pdx.net:

> Marco Bartel wrote:
>
>> rzed wrote:
>>
[...]
>>> Do you mean in a context like this?
>>>    class Const:
>>>        someVal=255
>>>        otherVal=0
>>>
>>>    def blip(Const.someVal):
> Should be:
>        def blip(test=Const.someVal):
>>
>> i checked this out, and i think its the name you were using:
>> Const
> Nope, it is the missing arg name.
>

Well, not so much that as an incorrectly formed parameter name. I
can legally do this:
    	def blip( someVal ):
    	    	...

but not this:
    	def blip( x.someVal ):
=> SyntaxError aimed at the dot.

Since there is no argname to assign a value to, "Const.someVal" is
taken as an identifier for a passed-in parameter. But it seems
(sensibly enough) that an identifier can't contain a '.' character,
which evidently is reserved for a qualifier separator (or some such
term) in that context.

--
rzed

--
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list




From michaelmossey at yahoo.com  Mon Apr  5 14:33:19 2004
From: michaelmossey at yahoo.com (Michael Mossey)
Date: 5 Apr 2004 11:33:19 -0700
Subject: Intermittant slow startup
Message-ID: <9badaf0.0404051033.9fec2db@posting.google.com>

Runnng python 2.2 on HP-UX, I get intermittant slow startup. 
Sometimes python starts up in a small fraction of a second, and
sometimes takes 3-5 seconds.  This applies to any script I run, or
just typing 'python' at the prompt.

I also observed something similar on Linux.

Any ideas what would cause *intermittant* slow startup?

-Mike


From garry at sage.att.com  Thu Apr  8 10:26:34 2004
From: garry at sage.att.com (Garry Hodgson)
Date: Thu, 8 Apr 2004 14:26:34 GMT
Subject: does commands.getoutput() use nice()?
Message-ID: <2004040810261081434393@k2.sage.att.com>


a friend is trying to track down the source of a mysterious
slowdown that's happening in a webware app he's doing.

he's got an external precompiled application that he invokes
from python using commands.getoutput().  usually it runs quickly
(1-2 secs), but sometimes it take much longer (80-90 secs).
he's instrumented the program to verify that it's the query invocation
that's spending all the time.  he's run the query in a test rig outside 
of python, and it seems to run normally all the time.  but when run
from python, via webware, he gets this wide performance variations.

his current hypothesis is that when python runs his command, it
"nices" it down in priority, so it's more susceptible to other load
on the machine.  i searched the python source, and don't see anyplace
that appears to do this.  but i thought i'd check here anyway.

can anyone support or reject his theory?

thanks

----
Garry Hodgson, Technology Consultant, AT&T Labs

Be happy for this moment.
This moment is your life.



From eric at zomething.com  Sun Apr  4 14:55:05 2004
From: eric at zomething.com (Eric @ Zomething)
Date: Sun, 4 Apr 2004 10:55:05 -0800
Subject: OT:  e-mail filter failed on "python"
Message-ID: <20040404105505.1845488747.eric@zomething.com>

Bloomba misfiled a DICE Job Alert into my Python e-mail folder... why, why, why?

Could it be?  

Someone mentioning "Python" in a job listing?

'''
Senior SW Engineer-Front End

COMPANY: Tablus 
SKILLS REQUIRED: Linux, apache, python, C, C++, Web Interface 
LOCATION: San Mateo, CA 
RATE: Market 
AREA: 650 
LENGTH: Regular Full Time 
TERM: FULLTIME 
SUMMARY: Tablus, Inc. is an exciting, stable, 2-year old company that is quickly becoming a force to be reckoned with in the area of content security products. Our flagship product, Content Alarm 1.0, is a security appliance designed to protect intellectual propert
'''

And ahead of C & C++.  :-)



Eric Pederson
http://www.songzilla.blogspot.com



From vineet at eswap.com  Mon Apr 12 00:47:14 2004
From: vineet at eswap.com (Vineet Jain)
Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2004 00:47:14 -0400
Subject: Is there a boolean(somestring) equivalent of int(somestring).
	bool('false') -> True
In-Reply-To: <407A14B7.2030603@prescod.net>
Message-ID: <KPENJIMKHJPNKOLFIHBNKEKOCGAA.vineet@eswap.com>

> For most (all?) built-in types there is one and only one false value.
> If you start to accept multiple false values then you run into the
> types of problems Perl programmers run into. You write code like this:

That makes sense (even though bool('false') == True is counter-intuitive).
I'll stick with my checkStringForBoolean function.

VJ





From __peter__ at web.de  Wed Apr 21 05:36:56 2004
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2004 11:36:56 +0200
Subject: Python 2.3.3 super() behaviour
References: <40863bd7$0$25528$afc38c87@news.easynet.fr>
Message-ID: <c65fbo$1q4$05$1@news.t-online.com>

Nicolas Lehuen wrote:

> Hi,
> 
> I hope this is not a FAQ, but I have trouble understanding the behaviour
> of the super() built-in function. I've read the excellent book 'Python in
> a Nutshell' which explains this built-in function on pages 89-90. Based on
> the example on page 90, I wrote this test code :
> 
> class A(object):
>     def test(self):
>         print 'A'
> 
> class B(object):
>     def test(self):
>         print 'B'
> 
> class C(A,B):
>     def test(self):
>         super(C,self).test()
>         print 'C'
> 
> print C.__mro__
> c=C()
> c.test()
> 
> The output is :
> (<class '__main__.C'>, <class '__main__.A'>, <class '__main__.B'>, <type
> 'object'>)
> A
> C
> 
> Whereas I was expecting :
> (<class '__main__.C'>, <class '__main__.A'>, <class '__main__.B'>, <type
> 'object'>)
> A
> B
> C
> 
> Was I wrong to expect this (based on what I've read ?)

As soon as a test() method without the super(...).test() is reached, no
further test methods will be invoked. Only the first in the list of base
classes will be invoked. If I'm getting it right you have to do something
like:

class Base(object):
    def test(self):
        print "base"

class D1(Base):
    def test(self):
        super(D1, self).test()
        print "derived 1"

class D2(Base):
    def test(self):
        super(D2, self).test()
        print "derived 2"

class All(D1, D2):
    pass

All().test()

Here all cooperating methods have a super() call, and the base class acts as
a showstopper to prevent that Python tries to invoke the non-existent
object.test().

Peter





From newsgroups at jhrothjr.com  Thu Apr  8 16:57:25 2004
From: newsgroups at jhrothjr.com (John Roth)
Date: Thu, 8 Apr 2004 16:57:25 -0400
Subject: List vs tuples
References: <c54cjb$5fs$1@planja.arnes.si>
Message-ID: <107bf8q8fhsmg5e@news.supernews.com>

"Mitja" <tezt at email.si> wrote in message
news:c54cjb$5fs$1 at planja.arnes.si...
> A neewbie's question here, probably discussed before:
> what's the purpose of having both lists AND tuples?
> At the first (and second and third, to be honest) glance lists are just
> tuples with extended functionality, so why have tuples around?
> I've been working with Python for a few months now but haven't yet come
> across a problem that would really require tuples.

It's a common question. A list is a data structure that is
intended to be used with homogenous members; that is,
with members of the same type.

You've probably used tuples without realizing it. For
example, the following idiom involves a tuple:

hours, minute, second = getTime()

where

def getTime(.....)
    #some calc
    return hour, minute, second

While it looks like return is returning multiple
objects, it actually isn't. It's returning one object:
a tuple of three elements which is then being
unpacked on the receiving end.

You could call the same routine this way as well:

result = getTime()

and result would be a tuple of three elements.

Another way of thinking about it is that you would
use a tuple the same way you would use a struct in
a language like C, if you didn't want to go to the trouble
of creating a full-fledged object for it.

John Roth

>
> Thanks in advance,
> Mitja
>
>




From crap1234 at hotmail.com  Sat Apr 17 07:27:57 2004
From: crap1234 at hotmail.com (Stefan Axelsson)
Date: Sat, 17 Apr 2004 13:27:57 +0200
Subject: Kuhlman's tutorials pretty good
In-Reply-To: <c5pa6i$4apir$1@ID-139865.news.uni-berlin.de>
References: <407E1E20.D0216E92@doe.carleton.ca>
	<200404150710.i3F7A0Hw010978@locutus.doe.carleton.ca>
	<407E40CC.C06FA9E3@doe.carleton.ca>
	<c5mmpu$3h1d4$1@ID-139865.news.uni-berlin.de>
	<mailman.675.1082104520.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<c5pa6i$4apir$1@ID-139865.news.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <c5r4bu$4tn8a$1@ID-224243.news.uni-berlin.de>

Dave Kuhlman wrote:

> The fonts in the ps files are not so good, and the fonts in the pdf
> files are terrible.  Maybe they will appear better on your system.
> If you look at them, please let me know.

Well, that's a known problem with LaTeX/dvips (they'll print out nicely 
though). Try pdflatex instead, and you'll get beautiful pdf files with 
nice embedded fonts. There's some incompatibility (but I've honestly 
never run into it) and everybody I know have made the switch.

Stefan,
-- 
Stefan Axelsson  (email at http://www.cs.chalmers.se/~sax)


From mlh at furu.idi.ntnu.no  Fri Apr  9 15:04:55 2004
From: mlh at furu.idi.ntnu.no (Magnus Lie Hetland)
Date: Fri, 9 Apr 2004 19:04:55 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: ANN: Atox 0.3 released
Message-ID: <slrnc7dsun.fbc.mlh@furu.idi.ntnu.no>



What is it?
===========

Atox is a framework for automated markup. With it one can quite easily
write custom scripts for converting plain text into XML in any way one
wishes. Atox is normally used as a command-line script, using a simple
XML language to specify the desired transformation from text to
markup, but it is also possible to build custom parsers using the Atox
library. The name (short for ASCII-to-XML) is inspired by such UNIX
tools and system functions as atops and atoi.


What can it do?
===============

The examples in the distribution demonstrate how you can use Atox to:

  - Mark up a (relatively simple) technical document (the Atox manual)

  - Mark up code blocks only through indentation;

  - Nest lists through indentation
  
  - Discern between different indentation "shapes" (e.g. a block quote
    versus a description list item);

  - Transform simple LaTeX into XML;

  - Add XML "syntax highlighting" to Python code;

  - Mark up screenplays or stageplays, largely based on indentation;

  - Mark up simple fictional prose;

  - Mark up simple tables.


What's new in 0.3?
==================

Some examples were added to the demo directory, highlighting the new
features:

  The 'ax:indented' tag
      This tag allows you to match an indent and a dedent easily, even
      if there is a lot of indentation between the two.

  The 'ax:try' tag
      You can indicate that a portion of the format is to be parsed
      with backtracking by wrapping it in a 'try' tag. This can be
      very useful for the places were a single-token lookahead just
      won't cut it.

  The 'ax:glue' attribute
      This replaces the experimental 'glued' attribute. The 'glue'
      attribute can contain a regular expression that much then match
      the skipped text before a glued element. Using an empty string
      makes it equivalent to 'glued="yes"'.


Where can I get it?
===================

Atox is hosted at SourceForge (http://atox.sf.net) and the current
release (0.3) is available for download via its project page
(http://sf.net/projects/atox).


The Small Print
===============

Atox is released under the MIT license. It comes with no warranty of
any kind. Also, even though the current version works well, and the
project is currently (as per early 2004) being actively developed,
there is no guarantee of continued support. What you see is what you
get.


-- 
Magnus Lie Hetland  "Oppression and harassment is a small price to pay
http://hetland.org   to live in the land of the free."  -- C. M. Burns


From http  Tue Apr 13 05:10:52 2004
From: http (Paul Rubin)
Date: 13 Apr 2004 02:10:52 -0700
Subject: how to break tuple to separate variables
References: <mailman.572.1081846104.20120.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <7xzn9gw8df.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

Stano Paska <Stanislav.Paska at kios.sk> writes:
> # i need some like this
> bbb = datetime.date(date2tuple('2004-11-03'))
> 
> # but date requires
> bbb = datetime.date(2004, 11, 03)

use: 

   bbb = datetime.date(*date2tuple('2004-11-03'))

the '*' before the arg means convert the tuple to an arg list.


From peter at engcorp.com  Tue Apr  6 18:37:49 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Tue, 06 Apr 2004 18:37:49 -0400
Subject: shutil.move, permission denied, why ?
In-Reply-To: <Xns94C3B42DA41DEstefninalussinanorg@212.27.42.68>
References: <Xns94C3B42DA41DEstefninalussinanorg@212.27.42.68>
Message-ID: <IKKdnYP8ZrujrO7d4p2dnA@powergate.ca>

St?phane Ninin wrote:

> I just do not understand what could cause this "permissions denied" for this 
> file. Any idea of what stupid thing I could have done somewhere in the code 
> that could cause that ?

Can you do exactly the same thing successfully from the command
line?  That is, do a "move a b" with the same paths that you
are trying to use in your code?


From lesstif-admin at lesstif.org  Wed Apr  7 02:34:56 2004
From: lesstif-admin at lesstif.org (lesstif-admin at lesstif.org)
Date: Wed, 07 Apr 2004 02:34:56 -0400
Subject: Request to mailing list Lesstif rejected
Message-ID: <E1BB6eG-0000BQ-MB@mail.python.org>

Your request to the Lesstif mailing list

    Posting of your message titled "Mail Delivery (failure
lesstif at hungry.com)"

has been rejected by the list moderator.  The moderator gave the
following reason for rejecting your request:

"Non-members are not allowed to post messages to this list."

Any questions or comments should be directed to the list administrator
at:

    lesstif-admin at lesstif.org



From joe at notcharles.ca  Fri Apr 16 00:26:14 2004
From: joe at notcharles.ca (Joe Mason)
Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2004 04:26:14 GMT
Subject: CamelCase versus wide_names (Prothon)
References: <UHxfc.9323$dZ1.3740@fed1read04>
	<mailman.666.1082064823.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<roy-04D784.18524315042004@reader2.panix.com>
	<1XIfc.245$GN6.197@fe2.columbus.rr.com>
Message-ID: <slrnc7uo28.ajs.joe@gate.notcharles.ca>

In article <1XIfc.245$GN6.197 at fe2.columbus.rr.com>, Carl Banks wrote:
> I'm not so sure.  All this markup has got to take a lot longer to type
> than plain text to input.  It would take a pretty slick interface just
> to match the ease of typing plain text, and then the programmer would
> have to spend a lot of time learning the slick interface.

ISTR LyX making this really easy.

Joe


From adim at nospam.com  Fri Apr 16 12:20:16 2004
From: adim at nospam.com (Adrien Di Mascio)
Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2004 18:20:16 +0200
Subject: AOP use cases
References: <84fc4588.0404140106.3fa0c55@posting.google.com>
	<slrnc7q1ss.1aa.alf@largo.fayauffre.org>
	<cb035744.0404141130.170f51c4@posting.google.com>
	<slrnc7sgat.vp.alf@largo.fayauffre.org>
	<cb035744.0404160442.2f0b1661@posting.google.com>
	<0pydnSB4WYuieuLdRVn-hQ@powergate.ca>
	<c5otn0$44o$1@news1.wdf.sap-ag.de>
Message-ID: <pan.2004.04.16.16.20.15.932593@nospam.com>

Le Fri, 16 Apr 2004 17:22:08 +0200, Daniel Dittmar a ?crit?:

> Not from personal experience, but these have been mentioned:
> - multithreading
> - persistence
> - transactions
> It may very well be that these can be implemented in current Python,but
> this only means that Python already has good support for AOP.
All the examples you mentioned can be implemented in Python.
Maybe we could also add "profiling", "security" ...

IMHO, what's great (in this context) with Python is that it's possible
to weave code (or adapt code) dynamically wherever you want quite
easily. And that's (*only*) a part of AOP. Doing this by using
metaclasses, PEAK aspects, Pythius aspects, Logilab aspects, etc. this
does not really matter.

I think, and I might be wrong since I'm still a bit new to AOP, that
there is nothing that you can do with AOP that you could not do with a
plain OO program. (And any OO program could also be written in a non
object-oriented way). But AOP is here to let you improve reusability by
giving some new ways to factorize code. Someone in this thread (I think
it is Hung Jung Lu) defined AOP as being a kind of Fourier Transform of
OOP, and I like this way of defining it.

Cheers,
Adrien.



From __peter__ at web.de  Sat Apr  3 03:20:14 2004
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Sat, 03 Apr 2004 10:20:14 +0200
Subject: String concatenation
References: <wS8bc.4382$px6.64058@news2.e.nsc.no>
	<7xisgi24fm.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<Rz9bc.4514$zf6.60676@news4.e.nsc.no>
	<406D27A7.6550A00B@alcyone.com>
	<ZW9bc.4389$px6.64242@news2.e.nsc.no>
	<406D2CD5.878EBD4E@alcyone.com>
	<d9abc.4519$zf6.60744@news4.e.nsc.no>
	<406D2FA2.6E5118CC@alcyone.com>
	<YZhbc.4488$px6.65517@news2.e.nsc.no>
	<i7mbc.4659$zf6.61729@news4.e.nsc.no>
Message-ID: <c4ls3u$ipm$06$1@news.t-online.com>

Leif B. Kristensen wrote:

> The "feature" is also submitted to the KDE bugtrack, see
> <url:http://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=60971>.
> 
> Apparently, "real programmers" don't cut and paste code samples from
> KNode. Go figure.

I doubt that KNode is to blame. The problem you encountered occured
to me only sporadically. Therefore I guess that the culprit is elsewhere in
the toolchain.

In the meantime, whenever an apparent whitespace generates a syntax error:

<clean160.py>
#!/usr/bin/env python
import string, sys, os

transTable = string.maketrans(chr(160), " ")

if __name__ == "__main__":
    for filename in sys.argv[1:]:
        s = file(filename).read()
        if chr(160) in s:
            print "cleaning", filename
            os.rename(filename, filename + ".160")
            file(filename, "w").write(s.translate(transTable))
        else:
            print "skipping", filename
<clean160.py>

Peter

PS: I'm not sure if the above reaches you without those vicious blanks, but
I'm confident :-)


From mark at prothon.org  Wed Apr 28 20:09:44 2004
From: mark at prothon.org (Mark Hahn)
Date: Wed, 28 Apr 2004 17:09:44 -0700
Subject: What is good about Prothon?
References: <bniq80hiib0gauiltuntk9jvia2getbnj4@4ax.com>
	<nxdjc.400$Qy.363@fed1read04>
	<m0ps8092jss5mhpopkbj0a4hg0m0rlppqh@4ax.com>
	<vDvjc.5555$Qy.2995@fed1read04>
	<108t2tlo06j8vb9@corp.supernews.com>
	<hzwjc.6087$Qy.2366@fed1read04>
	<69cbbef2.0404281446.4e0ab52e@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <ZHXjc.17225$Qy.13377@fed1read04>

has wrote:
> "Mark Hahn" <mark at prothon.org> wrote in message
> news:<hzwjc.6087$Qy.2366 at fed1read04>...
>
>> I've got Has on one side of me who says that having prototype
>> references instead of copies makes it too much like Python and
>> therefore it isn't prototype-based
>
> Not so. I've been saying it's not a proto-OO language because proto-OO
> behaves according to a single tier model where all objects are equal,
> whereas Prothon, like class-based OO languages, follows a two-tier
> model where some objects (classes/"prototypes") are more equal than
> others ("object" objects).

I apologize.  I accidently stated what I once thought you were claiming.  I
do know now that you are claiming that it's not prototype based if it is
two-tiered with templates and instances.

My position (which is basicly in agreement with Lieberman's paper) is that
having multiple tiers is inherent in all programming and is a natural result
of factoring the problem of making many copies of the same thing.

We will continue to agree to disagree.  I have learned a lot in my arguing
with you though and do appreciate the time you've spent wearing out your
keyboard.

You might be interested to know that the first benefits of classlesness are
starting to appear in Prothon, however minor.  A small example is that in my
Pickle replacement (called Prosist) instead of having a Prototype called DB
that you load with the Prosist module to instantiatate your db, you can use
the module object itself as the prototype:

# typical Python setup
import Pickle
db = Pickle.DB("filename.db")

# Prothon
import Prosist
db = Prosist("filename.db")

I know it's tiny, but it's a beginning to show how things can be simpler
when you don't have to have classes.  Maybe you could show how your one-tier
approach would make this even simpler?




From moosebumps at moosebumps.com  Sat Apr  3 03:49:21 2004
From: moosebumps at moosebumps.com (Moosebumps)
Date: Sat, 03 Apr 2004 08:49:21 GMT
Subject: HTML writer
References: <yL9bc.45202$wH3.33614@newssvr25.news.prodigy.com>
	<406D3C97.7020006@livinglogic.de>
Message-ID: <lUubc.17806$pq2.8384@newssvr27.news.prodigy.com>

"Walter D?rwald" <walter at livinglogic.de> wrote in message
news:406D3C97.7020006 at livinglogic.de...
> Moosebumps wrote:
>
> > Is there a standard solution for writing HTML web pages with Python?  I
> > don't know that much about web programming, but basically I want to
generate
> > some internal reports on a web page.
>
> There are several possible HTML generators for Python:
> HTMLgen http://starship.python.net/crew/friedrich/HTMLgen/html/main.html
> HyperText http://dustman.net/andy/python/HyperText/
> XIST http://www.livinglogic.de/Python/xist/

Thanks for those links, they look like what I'm looking for.  Does anyone
have any comment on which one of these requires you to have the least amount
specific web programming knowledge?  i.e. I know basic HTML, and I am an
experienced C programmer, but haven't really delved into the specifics of
it... never really wanted to clutter up my mind with the alphabet soup of
web programming  : ).  I was thinking that there was some Python library
that would wrap the functionality of these languages in some nice consistent
OO python interface.  It looks like all of these are exactly that, from what
I gather, which is great.

That is, I would not like any specific HTML tags anywhere in my own code,
and it seems like that is what they will allow me to do.  But I would be
interested to hear opinions/experiences with these packages.

thanks,
MB




From http  Sun Apr 18 05:28:50 2004
From: http (Paul Rubin)
Date: 18 Apr 2004 02:28:50 -0700
Subject: module not callable - why not?
References: <c56jph$rrk$05$1@news.t-online.com>
	<107dras2heahcb6@news.supernews.com>
	<mailman.491.1081538569.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<8ef9bea6.0404122025.36efc84e@posting.google.com>
	<c5tef0$5hf$1@news.service.uci.edu>
Message-ID: <7xsmf1fxd9.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

Josiah Carlson <jcarlson at uci.edu> writes:
> I think of modules as a namespace.  Why?  Because that is what they
> are. They contain a space of names, some of which may be useful to
> you, otherwise you wouldn't have imported the module.

Is a class instance not also a namespace?  After all, it contains a
space of names, some of which you must have wanted or else you
wouldn't have instantiated it.

And yet, you can call a class instance if it has a __call__ operation
defined.  I don't see why modules shouldn't be the same.


From gumuz at NO_looze_SPAM.net  Mon Apr 26 10:39:54 2004
From: gumuz at NO_looze_SPAM.net (Guyon Morée)
Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2004 16:39:54 +0200
Subject: interfacing to a remote excel app
References: <20040426150428.69010a3c@pistache.sara.nl>
Message-ID: <408d1f29$0$5065$4d4ebb8e@news.nl.uu.net>

Let me start by saying, that I don't have a 'solution-to-go' on this, but
I'll give it a go anyway.

An idea would be to investigate on DCOM (Distributed COM) and accessing that
from Unix. I have no clue on how to do this, so I leave that as an exercise
for yourself.

Otherwise...

If you have no problem having 2 seperate interpeters, It's fairly easy to
come up with a small xml-rpc interface and acces it through that.

just my 2 cents,

ps. de groeten aan Gijs en Bas :)

"Bram Stolk" <bram at nospam.sara.nl> wrote in message
news:20040426150428.69010a3c at pistache.sara.nl...
> pyHello,
>
>
> Google helped me find a nice package to interface python with MS Excel.
> "win32all", or sometimes called by the name "pywin32".
>
> http://starship.python.net/crew/mhammond/
>
> However, this win32all extension seems to be specifically built for the
> windows platform only.
>
> What could I use if I want to interface to excel from a python interpreter
> running on a remote UNIX machine?
>
> The specific task I want to accomplish is as follows:
> I want python on UNIX to be able to make selections in excel (highlight
rows).
> Also, I want to have changes in the selected (highlighted) items in excel
> to be communicated to the python running on UNIX.
>
> What would be the best way to do this?
>
> Thanks,
>
>   Bram
>
> PS: A possible approach would be to run two interpreters, one on both
> platforms, and have the MS python talk to excel. However, I would like a
> solution with low-impact to the MS platform, and want to get away without
> having to install python and win32all on the MS machine.
>
> -- 
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
----
>  Bram Stolk, VR Engineer.
>  SARA Academic Computing Services Amsterdam, PO Box 94613, 1090 GP
AMSTERDAM
>  email: bram at nospam.sara.nl   Phone +31-20-5923059  Fax +31-20-6683167
>
> "For the costs of subsidized agriculture in the EU, we can have all 56
million
>  European cows fly around the world. First Class." - J. Norberg
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
----




From peter at engcorp.com  Fri Apr 23 16:55:33 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2004 16:55:33 -0400
Subject: Why we will use obj$func() often
In-Reply-To: <mailman.981.1082749752.20120.python-list@python.org>
References: <d2Uhc.22272$dZ1.1600@fed1read04>	<84Uhc.22278$dZ1.5087@fed1read04>	<mailman.927.1082665370.20120.python-list@python.org>	<8AWhc.23114$dZ1.11070@fed1read04>	<mailman.939.1082697809.20120.python-list@python.org>	<EradnVFq3IILkBTdRVn-vA@powergate.ca>	<Pedic.28731$dZ1.11479@fed1read04>	<sUdic.28908$dZ1.19791@fed1read04>
	<mailman.981.1082749752.20120.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <gfednZgaJf1bHxTd4p2dnA@powergate.ca>

Mike C. Fletcher wrote:

> Mark Hahn wrote:
> ...
>> Peter:   You were making fun of how of fast I'm changing things in Prothon,
>> right?  I was going along with that humour in my message.  Someone in a
>> private message accused me of making fun of you, which I was 
>> definitely not doing.
>>
> Ah, too bad, you might have fit in if you did ;) .  He's just *so* much 
> fun to poke fun at. For crimminy's sake, he's from Canada, and you know 
> how ridiculous they all are... blubber-eating igloo-wardens every last 
> one of them.  It's practically impossible to take one of them seriously 
> as a computer programmer, I mean, really, a modern computer would just 
> melt the igloo down around their heads.

See you downtown at the PyGTA meeting on Tuesday, Mike.  And remember
your snowshoes this time, for heaven's sake.  It's still *April*, for
cryin' out loud!

-Peter


From amireallyfat at yahoo.com.au  Thu Apr  8 21:01:12 2004
From: amireallyfat at yahoo.com.au (mr_vocab)
Date: Fri, 9 Apr 2004 11:01:12 +1000
Subject: program distribution
Message-ID: <4075f5bb_1@news.iprimus.com.au>

Hi im new to  python but have made a few applications how can i save them
and get the to run sort of like an application

thanks

Nathan




From nelson at monkey.org  Wed Apr  7 22:02:07 2004
From: nelson at monkey.org (Nelson Minar)
Date: Thu, 08 Apr 2004 02:02:07 GMT
Subject: print u"\u0432": why is this so hard? UnciodeEncodeError
Message-ID: <cpa4qrvb529.fsf@cabernet.nelson.monkey.org>

I have a simple goal. I want the following Python program to work:
  print u"\u0432"

This program fails on my US Debian machine:
  UnicodeEncodeError: 'ascii' codec can't encode character u'\u0432' in position 0: ordinal not in range(128)

Actually, I have a complex goal: I want my SOAPpy program to work when
SOAPpy is in debug mode and is printing XML messages out to stdout.
Solving the simple problem will solve the complex one. Since I'm using
third party code, I can't go modify every print statement to call
encode() explictly.


The simplest solution I've come up with is this:
  $ LANG=en_US.UTF-8 python2.3 -c 'print u"\u0432"'

That seems to work reasonably well in Python 2.3 (but not 2.2!). But
then for some obscure reason if I redirect stdout in my shell it fails.
  $ LANG=en_US.UTF-8 python2.3 -c 'print u"\u0432"' > /dev/null

Why is that?


The only solution I've found that really works is reassigning
sys.stdout at the top of the script. That's an awful lot of work, but
it's the best I can do for now.

Why is Python not respecting my locale?


Here's my test program:

----------------------------------------------------------------------

#!/bin/bash -x

# Obliterate locale
for e in LANG LC_CTYPE LC_NUMERIC LC_TIME LC_COLLATE LC_MONETARY LC_MESSAGES LC_PAPER LC_NAME LC_ADDRESS LC_TELEPHONE LC_MEASUREMENT LC_IDENTIFICATION LC_ALL; do
  unset $e
done

# Doing the obvious thing has nonobvious effects
python2.3 -c 'print u"\u0432"'                               # fails, OK.
LC_ALL=en_US.utf8 python2.3 -c 'print u"\u0432"'             # works!
LC_ALL=en_US.utf8 python2.3 -c 'print u"\u0432"' > /dev/null # fails, huh?

# These both work, but what a pain!
python2.3 -c 'import sys, codecs; sys.stdout = codecs.getwriter("utf-8")(sys.__stdout__); print u"\u0432"'
python2.3 -c 'import sys, codecs; sys.stdout = codecs.getwriter("utf-8")(sys.__stdout__); print u"\u0432"' > /dev/null

----------------------------------------------------------------------

And sample output:

----------------------------------------------------------------------

~/src/python/testUnicode.sh           
+ unset LANG
+ unset LC_CTYPE
+ unset LC_NUMERIC
+ unset LC_TIME
+ unset LC_COLLATE
+ unset LC_MONETARY
+ unset LC_MESSAGES
+ unset LC_PAPER
+ unset LC_NAME
+ unset LC_ADDRESS
+ unset LC_TELEPHONE
+ unset LC_MEASUREMENT
+ unset LC_IDENTIFICATION
+ unset LC_ALL
+ python2.3 -c 'print u"\u0432"'
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<string>", line 1, in ?
UnicodeEncodeError: 'ascii' codec can't encode character u'\u0432' in position 0: ordinal not in range(128)
+ LC_ALL=en_US.utf8
+ python2.3 -c 'print u"\u0432"'
??
+ LC_ALL=en_US.utf8
+ python2.3 -c 'print u"\u0432"'
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<string>", line 1, in ?
UnicodeEncodeError: 'ascii' codec can't encode character u'\u0432' in position 0: ordinal not in range(128)
+ python2.3 -c 'import sys, codecs; sys.stdout = codecs.getwriter("utf-8")(sys.__stdout__); print u"\u0432"'
??
+ python2.3 -c 'import sys, codecs; sys.stdout = codecs.getwriter("utf-8")(sys.__stdout__); print u"\u0432"'


From nc-jantzegu at netcologne.de  Thu Apr  1 15:20:46 2004
From: nc-jantzegu at netcologne.de (Günter Jantzen)
Date: Thu, 1 Apr 2004 22:20:46 +0200
Subject: Travelling salesman variation in python
References: <slrnc6on9h.spl.erlendga@tva.ifi.uio.no>
Message-ID: <c4htj1$os1$1@newsreader2.netcologne.de>

Hello Erlend,

in my opinion its not a TSP. In TSP problems a minimum is searched, you
search the maximum
And TSP is usually formulated for undirected graphs. So (for me) its not so
clear if the problem is NP

Did you think about trying a greedy algorithm. Start at some point and go
always the way with the highest value and eliminate the previous note

If you want better results, try it with more combinations. For example
choose the three highest values from  every  node and follow this ways if
possible

Use backtracking with recursive calls
(explained in many textbooks about discrete mathematics. Typical example -
the 8 queens problem)

Of course I have no idea if this approch will be helpful

G?nter

"Erlend Andreas Garberg" <erlendga at tva.ifi.uio.no> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:slrnc6on9h.spl.erlendga at tva.ifi.uio.no...
> Hi!
>
> I'm trying to code a implementation of a variation of the travelling
> salesman problem.
>
> The problem is the following.
>
> I have X nodes.
> Each node has a number assosiated with each of the other nodes.
>
> The problem is then:
> Construct a ring of the nodes so that the sum of the numbers is the
> highest possible.
>
> Example:
> Nodes:
> A with numbers B->1200, C->2000
> B with numbers A->3000, C->4000
> C with numbers A->9000, B->5000
>
> The optimal ring is in this case can f.ex. be:
> A->1200->B->4000->C->9000->A with sum 14200.
>
> I have implemented this in python in the following way:
>
> hash is a dictionary with node-name as key and node-object as value.
> Each node-object has a dictionary speeds with node-name as key and a
> number as value. this dict stores the numbers associated with the other
> nodes.
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------
> # method xcombinations
> def xcombinations(items, n):
>     if n==0: yield []
>     else:
>         for i in xrange(len(items)):
>             for cc in xcombinations(items[:i]+items[i+1:],n-1):
>                 yield [items[i]]+cc
>
> # help function
> func = lambda x,y: int(hash[x].speeds[y])
>
>
> # code starts here:
> bestcomb = []
> bestspeed = 0
>
>         for comb in xcombinations(hash.keys(),len(hash)):
>             speed = sum(map(func,comb,comb[1:] + comb[:1]))
>             if speed > bestspeed:
>                 bestcomb = comb
>                 bestspeed = speed
>
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
>
> My implementation generate all combinations, and check which gives the
> highest result.
>
> My problem is that when the number of nodes is higher than 8, the
> algorithm slows to a crawl (because of O(n!) complexity). I wonder if
> there is some way I can optimize my algorithm to make it run faster?
> Currently it takes 20 seconds to compute the best combination with 9
> nodes on my hardware.
>
>
> I would appreciate some comments on this :)
>
> --
> Regards
> Erlend Garberg
>




From mhammond at keypoint.com.au  Thu Apr 29 10:30:28 2004
From: mhammond at keypoint.com.au (Mark Hammond)
Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2004 00:30:28 +1000
Subject: makepy generating a file versus a directory
In-Reply-To: <9e5ea2c4.0404290556.35c51c64@posting.google.com>
References: <9e5ea2c4.0404290556.35c51c64@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <c6r3if$2np$1@arachne.labyrinth.net.au>

Olaf Meding wrote:
> When does the makepy utility generate a .py file and when a directory?
>  And what decided if a directory or a file is generated?

Whenever 'bForDemand' is passed to the gencache/makepy functions. 
Currently EnsureDispatch passes True here.

> What is the difference between a file and a directory (both named
> after the uuid in the IDL file)?

I am moving towards the directory version.  In this case, only the 
package itself (with the __init__.py) is generated when the tlb is 
loaded.  Interfaces etc referenced in the typelib are then generated 'on 
demand', as they are referenced.

The benefit is for huge type-libraries, when only one or 2 interfaces 
are used.  A good example is Excel - often you just use 2 or 3 
interfaces, but the .tlb, and generated .py file, is huge.  The cost of 
bringing in the .pyc can be quite high for these typelibs, let alone the 
generation of it first time around.

Mark.


From moughanj at tcd.ie  Sat Apr 24 04:06:26 2004
From: moughanj at tcd.ie (James Moughan)
Date: 24 Apr 2004 01:06:26 -0700
Subject: deleting items within a for loop - mutable indices
References: <4089cb21$1_2@mk-nntp-2.news.uk.tiscali.com>
Message-ID: <16752bcc.0404240006.491ec7e3@posting.google.com>

SnuSnu <snusnu at tiscali.co.uk> wrote in message news:<4089cb21$1_2 at mk-nntp-2.news.uk.tiscali.com>...
> Okay - here's a (probably) really easy question:
> 
> I can't do the following, so what's the best way to handle this
> case of wanting to delete within a loop?
> 
> x = [0,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8]
> deletion_list = [2,7,8]
> 
> for i in deletion_list:
>   del x[i]
> 
> This obviously doesn't work because the list keeps changing
> each time I delete something, so the indices are no longer valid
> after the first delete (so I get an IndexError on teh last delete).
> 
> My hack is to do this first (which makes sure that the higher indices 
> are deleted first), but this is not very elegant or quick:
> 
> deletion_list.sort()
> deletion_list.reverse()
> # BTW: It's a shame I can't do deletion_list.sort().reverse()
> 
> Is there a simple solution?
> 
> (It would be nice to do something like
>   del x[2,7,8]           # or..
>   del [*deletion_list]
> )
> 
> Thanks.

Eh, do you want to delete the elements in the deletion list from x, or
delete the elements in x which are at the location indicated in the
deletion list?  Your example doesn't differentiate.

Anyhow, this is advice from a newbie :-) but in the first case

x = [y for y in x if not y in deletion_list]

works well enough.

otherwise

tmp = [x[i] for i in range(len(x)) if not i in deletion_list]
x = tmp

you could speed either up for largish lists with hashing;

dict = {}
for d in deletion_list:
    dict[d] = 1
tmp = [x[i] for i in range(len(x)) if not dict.has_key(i)]
x = tmp

alternatively you could make it linear in time for the number of
deletion elements, but the performance hit from creating a bunch of
lists hurts a bit too much, unless you don't care about order.  Which
I'm guessing you do.

Jam


From peter at engcorp.com  Mon Apr 12 17:29:35 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2004 17:29:35 -0400
Subject: How to kill a SocketServer?
In-Reply-To: <c5esmh$h8$1@newshispeed.ch>
References: <c5e6k3$jf4$1@newshispeed.ch> <c5ed3b$drg$06$1@news.t-online.com>
	<c5esmh$h8$1@newshispeed.ch>
Message-ID: <86GdndxCWrGil-bdRVn-gw@powergate.ca>

Jean-Pierre Bergamin wrote:
> The accept() call still won't get interrupted. :-(
> 
> Other ideas?

You have three choices.

1. Run your server as a separate process, communicating with it
via some kind of RPC, and just kill it when desired.

2. Use non-blocking sockets.  This is the standard and
simplest approach in many ways.

3. Arrange to have one thread open a socket connection to the
application, waking up your accept()ing thread.  Then check
a flag which tells the server thread to exit.

By definition, blocking calls block, and you can't safely kill
a thread in Python so pick one from the above and run with it...

-Peter


From newsuser at itgoesclick.com  Wed Apr 21 16:15:53 2004
From: newsuser at itgoesclick.com (Noah from IT Goes Click)
Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2004 20:15:53 GMT
Subject: Maybe Komodo might do it
In-Reply-To: <D6Ahc.2737911$iA2.315963@news.easynews.com>
References: <D6Ahc.2737911$iA2.315963@news.easynews.com>
Message-ID: <ZDAhc.186612$Pk3.110802@pd7tw1no>

I haven't actually checked if it does it for PHP but it says it has 
autocomplete, weather it explores your classes or not I don't know.


http://www.activestate.com/Products/Komodo/index.plex


From greg at cosc.canterbury.ac.nz  Thu Apr 15 02:03:48 2004
From: greg at cosc.canterbury.ac.nz (Greg Ewing)
Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2004 18:03:48 +1200
Subject: Does Python compete with Java?
In-Reply-To: <mailman.586.1081877484.20120.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.586.1081877484.20120.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <c5l8k5$2vd3e$1@ID-169208.news.uni-berlin.de>

Robert Brewer wrote:
> Greg Ewing was thinking specifically on getting "and", "or" and "not" to
> be overridable:
> http://groups.google.com/groups?group=comp.lang.python.*&selm=c1bobu%241
> g1p9e%241%40ID-169208.news.uni-berlin.de&rnum=1 
> I'm not sure how far he got, but I'd still appreciate it myself (Greg?
> <:)

I haven't found time to do anything on it yet, but
I still intend to.

-- 
Greg Ewing, Computer Science Dept,
University of Canterbury,	
Christchurch, New Zealand
http://www.cosc.canterbury.ac.nz/~greg



From tjreedy at udel.edu  Tue Apr 13 02:10:16 2004
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2004 02:10:16 -0400
Subject: Once-only evaluation of default parameter values
	functiondefinitions
References: <407B79D7.424F65A1@doe.carleton.ca>
Message-ID: <c5g084$c70$1@sea.gmane.org>


"Fred Ma" <fma at doe.carleton.ca> wrote in message
news:407B79D7.424F65A1 at doe.carleton.ca...
> Hello,
>    Example#1
>    ---------
>    def f(a, L=[]):
>        L.append(a)
>        return L
>
> Instead, one should use:
>
>    Example#2
>    ---------
>    def f(a, L=None):
>        if L is None:
>            L = []
>        L.append(a)
>        return L
>
>    print f(1)
>    print f(2)
>    print f(3)
>
> prints
>
>    [1]
>    [1, 2]
>    [1, 2, 3]
>=
> The alternative explanation that I could think of is that L is bound
> to the unnamed object [], and the object itself changes values to
> reflect changes to L i.e. L is now a persistent variable, retaining
> its value between function calls unless a value is provided for L in
> the function call's argument list.

More or less correct except that it is the object that you should think of
as persistent.  The variable L only exists during the function call.

  In the latter case, one can
> imagine L simply being overwritten with the value provided.

When one is provided.

> The problem with this picture is that Example#2 should fail for the
> same reasons as Example#1.  That is, L will not get the value of None
> on the 2nd call to f() without a value specified for L.

L gets bound to None whenever not overriden, on a per call basis.

> Hence, L will  not be reset to [].

Hence L *will* be reset to []






From mark at prothon.org  Thu Apr 22 17:14:39 2004
From: mark at prothon.org (Mark Hahn)
Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2004 14:14:39 -0700
Subject: Why we will use obj$func() often
References: <d2Uhc.22272$dZ1.1600@fed1read04> <84Uhc.22278$dZ1.5087@fed1read04>
	<mailman.927.1082665370.20120.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <8AWhc.23114$dZ1.11070@fed1read04>

Mike C. Fletcher wrote:

> This isn't really a very clear description of what's going on in
> Python.  It won't matter to the Prothon users, but don't want any
> Python users to get confused...

My inability to understand this stuff is what drove me to do Prothon <grin>.
All the hidden wrapped this and wrapped that confused me to no end.

>     By the way, the modern Python idiom is:
>
>         super( klass2, self ).func( )
>

You're kidding.  That seems like a big leap backwards in friendliness.  Kind
of a syntax castor oil.

That's explains why Joe Mason did his proposal for Prothon delegation using
that same idiom for Prothon.  I thought he was somewhat crazy wanting us to
type all that each time.

What problem caused Python to want to switch to such a general operation?
What is the usage case that is so important that it is making eveyone wear
out their keyboards typing that monstrosity?

Oh well, I guess it gives me one more argument to pitch for Prothon...




From pirx at python.net  Sun Apr  4 22:54:20 2004
From: pirx at python.net (Christian Tismer)
Date: Mon, 05 Apr 2004 04:54:20 +0200
Subject: Python is faster than C
In-Reply-To: <loom.20040404T034309-437@post.gmane.org>
References: <406F0907.96F37EA1@tunes.org>
	<7xy8pcogaa.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>	<406F454B.C4CC8063@tunes.org>
	<7xekr4vdek.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>	<406F5E95.EBE6D3E8@tunes.org>
	<loom.20040404T034309-437@post.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <c4qhmu$9h1$1@sea.gmane.org>

Christian Tismer wrote:

> Armin Rigo <arigo <at> tunes.org> writes:
> 
> 
>>Again I'm not saying it is trivial to implement it, but that not having
>>to expose for optimization purposes 'xrange' and the whole 'iterator'
>>part of the language would be worth it, in my opinion.

Responding to myself, after chatting with Armin:

> In general, I share Armin's impression, that iterators are nothing else
> but an explicit way to spell optimizations.
> While explicit is better than implicit, in the case of optimizations,
> I believe it is an over-specification, and almost completely in the false
> direction. We have to prove this in a known project, still.

...

> instead you can do it this way:
> 
> it = iter(sequence)
> can_continue = 1
> while can_continue:
>   try:
>     for each in it:
>       do_something_with(each)
>   exceptSomeThingWrongWithThis
>     can_continue = some_recovery(each)
>     continue

Well, I agree that this is no excuse for the need for iterators.
Under the assumption that iterators are almost for speed,
which could be gathered otherwise, then my use case is
also a hack for speed.
It would not be needed if exceptions in tight loop weren't
expensive. Actually, with a different layout of exceptions,
they could come at no cost if they are not thrown and slightly
more cost if they are thrown.
This is not exactly my idea but came from Armin.
Maybe the blcok stack is going to be optimized away.

cheers - chris





From Andreas.Ames at tenovis.com  Fri Apr 23 09:29:30 2004
From: Andreas.Ames at tenovis.com (Ames Andreas (MPA/DF))
Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2004 15:29:30 +0200
Subject: [Q] C-api: string|int|... construction
Message-ID: <788E231C269961418F38D3E360D165259B408F@tndefr-ws00021.tenovis.corp.lan>

Duncan Booth <me at privacy.net> writes:

> Why are you wrapping the ODBC api instead of using one of the
> existing wrappings?

I just know about mxODBC and pyodbc (from pywin32, but it's easily
ported to posix as it seems, there's something on Gnu's savannah I
think).  Please tell me if there are others, I'd be glad to use
existing ones to save time.

Both of the above don't fit my needs both license-wise and technically
(easy access to meta-data/schema, thread-safety etc.).  I actually
like the idea of a low-level python wrapper around ODBC.  A dbi
wrapper might be easier to write in python itself.

> Sorry, I thought you said large. 1024 bytes isn't large.

My first job was programming some embedded system where 1024 bytes was
(and I think still is although I'm no longer there) huuuuge, but as
usual YMMV ;-).  In python's context you are right, it's tiny and the
time to copy it may be meaningless, but I'm not sure that's one of the
things I really like about python.  Anyway, I didn't want to say the
strings I expect are only 1024 bytes long but that's the threshold I
may chose for my first attempt to call the said api.

> Use PyString_FromStringAndSize(NULL, size) to create a new Python
> string with an empty buffer, then PyString_AsString(s) to get a
> pointer to the buffer. Pass that to your C api, then call
> _PyString_Resize to set the length correctly.

That's just great advise, thanks very much.

> Python has to control the lifetime of the buffer. By copying into
> its own buffer it avoids issues over ownership.

To be able to use the C api I need to learn to get the reference
counting straight, so I will certainly be able to learn about the
ownership of buffers that are used to construct python objects.


Thank you very much,

andreas




From peter at engcorp.com  Fri Apr 23 16:52:30 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2004 16:52:30 -0400
Subject: Why we will use obj$func() often
In-Reply-To: <sUdic.28908$dZ1.19791@fed1read04>
References: <d2Uhc.22272$dZ1.1600@fed1read04>	<84Uhc.22278$dZ1.5087@fed1read04>	<mailman.927.1082665370.20120.python-list@python.org>	<8AWhc.23114$dZ1.11070@fed1read04>
	<mailman.939.1082697809.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<EradnVFq3IILkBTdRVn-vA@powergate.ca>
	<Pedic.28731$dZ1.11479@fed1read04>
	<sUdic.28908$dZ1.19791@fed1read04>
Message-ID: <FJOdnTidgseTHxTdRVn-iQ@powergate.ca>

Mark Hahn wrote:

> "Mark Hahn" <mark at prothon.org> wrote in message
> news:Pedic.28731$dZ1.11479 at fed1read04...
> 
>>"Peter Hansen" <peter at engcorp.com> wrote ...
>>>Mike, you haven't been keeping up with the other thread.  I think the
>>>decision is now:
>>>
>>>   fish_height$some_where()
>>
>>That is like SO two-hours-ago.  Marcia like, told me that Biff like, said
>>that Trish like, said camelCase was SO out, can you BELIEVE IT????
> 
> Peter:   You were making fun of how of fast I'm changing things in Prothon,
> right?  I was going along with that humour in my message.  Someone in a
> private message accused me of making fun of you, which I was definitely not
> doing.

No offense taken, nor thought to be intended.  (Best to include
a smiley next time, however, just in case.  I think the newsgroup
needs more of those right now.  I think it's those damn crows outside
my window that are getting everyone on edge.  You can hear them,
right?  They're very loud... where's a kid with a BB gun when you
need him?)

-Peter


From peter9547 at btinternet.com  Sun Apr  4 12:05:14 2004
From: peter9547 at btinternet.com (Peter MacKenzie)
Date: Sun, 4 Apr 2004 16:05:14 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: emergent/swarm/evolutionary systems etc
References: <c4aeq8$92a$1@hercules.btinternet.com>
	<c4ccs2$l9j$1@news.service.uci.edu>
	<c4hjp4$dg6$1@sparta.btinternet.com>
	<c4ibr0$ngm$1@news.service.uci.edu>
	<106ugk2brruis3a@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <c4pbnp$c8j$1@sparta.btinternet.com>

Von Thunen?  I had to look that one up, but I realised upon finding it that
I'd been taught it way back in first year geography in high school.  It's
not something they refer to anymore, except as an absolute first step to
understanding settlement structure and distribution.  Looking over it again,
it's easy to see why.  The criteria required for it to work are almost
impossible in the real world, so the models that are taught after it are
generally refinements and novel applications of the basic Von Thunen
concepts.

To take a couple of examples, the bid/rent model of land use is a modern
version that incorporates lines of communication (roads, rails, etc) when
considering land uses, which convert the concentric structure of the Von
Thunen model into something more reminiscent of a spider web.

Models that address sociological phenomenon bring in another layer of
refinement.  Particularly notable are those models that focus on 'quartered'
cities, with self-contained micro-cities serving distinct groups.  These
structures were commonplace during the colonial era, when trade cities were
often a multi-nucleated patchwork of white, indigenous and 'miscellaneous'
societies.

It's common, when addressing any location, to apply a Von Thunen framework
to the layout of the area and use any discrepancies with the idealised
theory as a focus of the study.  Generally though, it's something so
ingrained in the geographer's conscious that it never really gets much
thought.

Cameron Laird <claird at lairds.com> wrote in message
news:106ugk2brruis3a at corp.supernews.com...
> In article <c4ibr0$ngm$1 at news.service.uci.edu>,
> Josiah Carlson  <jcarlson at uci.edu> wrote:
> >> rules.  Given that I have only a basic foothold on the language, does
> >> anybody foresee difficulties for me learning enough to impliment simple
and
> >> experimentally flexible sim-city style simulations (minus fancy
graphics and
> >> llamas) in no more than 2 months (to allow for time to conduct actual
> >> experiments + field observations etc)?  I would be able to engender aid
from
> >> various staff, and the university library should carry titles on the
> >> subject.  Failing that, I could do it the old fashioned way and buy a
how-to
> >> book, but I'd like some opinions on the difficulty of the goal from
people
> >> who've already trancended the non-programmer/programmer barrier.
> >
> >
> >Two months is a pretty tight schedule.  If you're on your toes, I would
> >bet you could learn enough of the langauge to support your ideas in 2
> >months.  Actually programming the thing in 2 months; I wouldn't be able
> >to make that kind of judgement about your abilities.
> .
> .
> .
> Bluntly, I'd bet against it.  There's a daunting amount
> of new material you'll need to learn.  My advice:  we can
> help you refine your project so that the computing part is
> less overwhelming.
>
> 'You read von Thunen, by the way?
> --
>
> Cameron Laird <claird at phaseit.net>
> Business:  http://www.Phaseit.net




From a_salnikov at yahoo.com  Thu Apr  1 20:47:54 2004
From: a_salnikov at yahoo.com (Andy Salnikov)
Date: Thu, 1 Apr 2004 17:47:54 -0800
Subject: Timeline plots with Python
Message-ID: <c4igoa$2tr$1@news.Stanford.EDU>

Hi all,

does anybody knows any plotting library which can do nice timeline plots?
Python is preffered, but not strictly necessary. Standalone utility might
also
be OK if one can feed some data from a script into it. I feel that I will
have
to do it myself using some low-level plottin library, but I have no time now
to spend on this thing. And I hate this low-level stuff, scaling, date/time
formatting, etc.

Cheers,
Andy.




From peter9547 at btinternet.com  Fri Apr  2 11:21:08 2004
From: peter9547 at btinternet.com (Peter MacKenzie)
Date: Fri, 2 Apr 2004 16:21:08 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: emergent/swarm/evolutionary systems etc
References: <c4aeq8$92a$1@hercules.btinternet.com><c4btjr$8il$1@titan.btinternet.com><c4ccs2$l9j$1@news.service.uci.edu><c4hjp4$dg6$1@sparta.btinternet.com><c4ibr0$ngm$1@news.service.uci.edu>
	<c4jehj$6eh$1@titan.btinternet.com><c4jjad$ce4$1@titan.btinternet.com>
	<mailman.268.1080907791.20120.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <c4k3tj$6dd$1@titan.btinternet.com>

Peter Hansen + Mickel Gr?nroos, (unsure of a more suitable intro protocol
for this environment + situation)

Oh the joy!  It makes life worth living when things click into place and
make sense.  My style of learning seems ill suited to the material available
on the subject, so although I had indeed read all that I could find on
making files, it was presented in a manner that I couldn't quite comprehend.
To elaborate, I process linguistic information in a holistic, intuitive
manner; a quality that requires for me to develop a 'feel' for the language
in question, rather than a literal understanding of the rules.

Because of this, I need full-yet-simple working examples to deconstruct and
process.  Most of the examples I've come across have been fragmented and
incomplete, which leaves me grasping at loose ends and the countless
possibilities therein.  It's as though somebody had handed me at birth a
dictionary and a set of grammatical rules, with the expectation that I would
be able to piece it all together and learn to communicate.

Conversely, my search for the working examples I craved only turned up
applications of the process that were too bound up in more complex matters
to be decipherable, the analogy this time being that of getting handed a
copy of 'Moby Dick' from which to start my education.

Being presented with an isolated, sterilised 'specimen' has helped me to
form a better understanding of the language, being of the right mix of
information bandwidth vs. complexity to allow me to capture the 'flavour' in
the code.

If there are any teachers reading this, I hope it might engender you to
consider the varying needs of students in your classes.  By being an outlier
on the mental demographic, I've long suffered from problems arising from my
minority neurology.  The cause, however, has generally been from
communicative frictions, rather than from the relative merits and demerits
of that mental architecture.

Thank you both for your help (spreadsheets in the next message).




From bjornhb3 at yahoo.se  Thu Apr  1 11:39:08 2004
From: bjornhb3 at yahoo.se (Bjorn Heimir Bjornsson)
Date: 1 Apr 2004 08:39:08 -0800
Subject: Verifying temporal properties. Need problems.
Message-ID: <68771ca.0404010839.39b0c24f@posting.google.com>

Hello all

As part of a thesis, I am model checking Python programs (a limited
subset anyway).

I have a very rough prototype that can deal with temporal properties
(LTL), that is statically prove properties of the kind: "if A happens,
then B should follow" or "if A happens, then B must not follow unless
C happens first". A,B,C here being function calls (system or other
library). The idea is that this might complement testing or manual
auditing during development.

So the solution now requires a problem.
Basically I'm trying to find interesting areas where a programmer is
supposed to call specific functions in a particular order, but where
coding errors might prevent this.
I would be most happy with distinctively Python-related problems, like
some tricky-to-use system calls or something from Zope or
security-related issues, etc.

So if any of you have ideas (specific function calls) where this kind
of tool would be useful, I would welcome feedback.
If replying privately, use bjornhb2_hotmail.com (more or less).

Thanks a lot :)
Bjorn


From tkpmep at hotmail.com  Thu Apr 29 20:02:58 2004
From: tkpmep at hotmail.com (Thomas Philips)
Date: 29 Apr 2004 17:02:58 -0700
Subject: Subclasses in Python
References: <mailman.114.1083254390.25742.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <b4a8ffb6.0404291602.4b112acf@posting.google.com>

Perfect! But tell me, how did you know to use __name__? I typed
dir(object) and dir(Player) in IDLE, and in neither case did __name__
show up.

>>> dir(object) gives me
['__class__', '__delattr__', '__doc__', '__getattribute__',
'__hash__', '__init__', '__new__', '__reduce__', '__reduce_ex__',
'__repr__', '__setattr__', '__str__']

dir(Player)  gives me a few more things - the object's methods and
class variables, and some additional stuff: __dict__, __hash__,
__module__ and __weakref__. Neither sight nor sound of __name__ -
__module__is as close as I get to the magical __name__. What gives?

And, before I forget, thanks for all the help - I wouldn't have solved
it without you.

Thomas Philips


From newsgroups at jhrothjr.com  Sat Apr 17 12:34:39 2004
From: newsgroups at jhrothjr.com (John Roth)
Date: Sat, 17 Apr 2004 12:34:39 -0400
Subject: AOP use cases
References: <84fc4588.0404140106.3fa0c55@posting.google.com>
	<slrnc7q1ss.1aa.alf@largo.fayauffre.org>
	<cb035744.0404141130.170f51c4@posting.google.com>
	<slrnc7sgat.vp.alf@largo.fayauffre.org>
	<cb035744.0404160442.2f0b1661@posting.google.com>
	<0pydnSB4WYuieuLdRVn-hQ@powergate.ca>
Message-ID: <1082n594lndh27f@news.supernews.com>

"Peter Hansen" <peter at engcorp.com> wrote in message
news:0pydnSB4WYuieuLdRVn-hQ at powergate.ca...
> Will Stuyvesant wrote:
>
> > What are good usage examples?
>
> I would be very interested to hear some real-world and real useful
> use cases for AOP as well.  So far, the logging example seems to
> be put forth so often that I'm starting to suspect that's the
> *only* "useful" thing people are doing with it. :-)
>
>  From direct personal experience, could some AOP folks please
> point out some compelling use cases so that the doubting
> Thomases (and Wills, and Peters) can better understand and
> accept the idea of AOP as being more than just a few fringe
> cases?
>
> (The logging one actually annoys me: the only time I've ever
> wanted such logging was when debugging very complicated problems,
> and since switching to TDD I have never encountered anything
> that even remotely made me consider writing such logging wrappers
> again.)
>
> -Peter

I suspect you're not going to get any really compelling ones.
The reason I say this is a lot of experience I had about 30
years ago, when I was supporting an installation with IBM
mainframes, using MFT and MVT (the predecessors to MVS.)
One of my favorite methods of installing patches and modifications
was to insert code in the call paths between modules, using
patches and link editor gyrations.

Why? Because I couldn't get the source code to change it,
and even if I could have done so, changing it would have
exposed me to horrendous integration problems with
upgrades (something I had to learn the hard way.)

When you're supporting a monolithic proprietary application,
sometimes you have to do what you have to do, but today
the entire idea simply smells of a high-tech way to do
ad-hoc patching where a really well designed application
would not need it (and I don't really care if the design is
up front or emergent.)

John Roth




From cy.fbp.eryvtvne at ncbybtrglxn.pbz  Fri Apr 16 08:14:19 2004
From: cy.fbp.eryvtvne at ncbybtrglxn.pbz (JZ)
Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2004 14:14:19 +0200
Subject: MySQLdb error for sql >64K
Message-ID: <11vs3qm7platj$.e7an576g31z5.dlg@40tude.net>

I cannot execute insert data into TEXT field if that data is bigger than
64KB. :(

>>> cursor.execute("INSERT INTO table (field) VALUES(%s) WHERE id=1", myValue)

Traceback (most recent call last):
File "<interactive input>", line 1, in ?
File "C:\opt\PYTHON~1\lib\site-packages\MySQLdb\cursors.py", line 95, in
execute
    return self._execute(query, args)
File "C:\opt\PYTHON~1\lib\site-packages\MySQLdb\cursors.py", line 114, in
_execute
   self.errorhandler(self, exc, value)
File "C:\opt\PYTHON~1\lib\site-packages\MySQLdb\connections.py", line 33,
in defaulterrorhandler
   raise errorclass, errorvalue
Warning: Rows matched: 1  Changed: 0  Warnings: 1

The same sql query executed using MySQLFront client works without any
problems. So, I think the problem must be with MySQLdb 0.9.2 module.

Any suggestions?

--
JZ


From beliavsky at aol.com  Thu Apr 29 10:54:01 2004
From: beliavsky at aol.com (beliavsky at aol.com)
Date: 29 Apr 2004 07:54:01 -0700
Subject: MATLAB2Python
References: <D2Xjc.28117$Qc.1080799@twister1.libero.it>
Message-ID: <3064b51d.0404290654.58e59124@posting.google.com>

Sarge <sarge at arena.invalid> wrote in message news:<D2Xjc.28117$Qc.1080799 at twister1.libero.it>...
> Hi, everybody!
> I'm a moderately experienced programmer in Matlab, and looking for a 
> free computational language (Matlab is *REALLY* expensive for an 
> individual, like me).

You should consider the (compiled) F programming language, which is a
free subset of Fortran 95 -- see http://www.fortran.com/F/index.html.
F and F95 both have array operations comparable to Matlab. You can get
a syntax comparison of Matlab and Fortran at
http://www.owlnet.rice.edu/~mech517/F90_Overview.html . Fortran 95
compilers are not in general free but much are less expensive than
Matlab. The Intel Fortran 95 compiler is free on Linux for
noncommercial use, and the open-source G95 compiler on Linux is usable
(but not yet mature) -- see http://g95.sourceforge.net/ .

> I came across Python (actually Scipy) and immediately felt 
> comfortable with the interface and syntax.
> I'm still a newbe, so, before attempting a serious work on it, I'd 
> like to hear any opinion about migration from Matlab to Python, and 
> also a rough comparison between these two languages.

I have found numerous cases where Python programs run 10-100 times
slower or more than a comparable Fortran 95 program. Look up my
previous posts here. Although both Matlab and Python are scripting
languages, much more effort has gone into optimizing the former for
speed. If execution time is more important than scripting convenience,
I recommend Fortran over Python.

An indication that Python takes the interests of beginning programmers
more seriously than those of experienced scientific programmers is
that integer division is going to be redefined in future versions of
the language -- 2/3 = 1 now but will equal 1.5 in the future. (I think
you are supposed to use 2//3). The Fortran standards committee takes
backwards compatibility much more seriously, so that code you write
now will not take on a new meaning in future versions of the language.


From chrish at cryptocard.com  Tue Apr  6 08:36:53 2004
From: chrish at cryptocard.com (Chris Herborth)
Date: Tue, 06 Apr 2004 08:36:53 -0400
Subject: Does Python compete with Java?
In-Reply-To: <roy-094613.21022405042004@reader1.panix.com>
References: <8b336527.0404051337.51bb4a1b@posting.google.com>
	<1073su4etm95p35@news.supernews.com>
	<roy-094613.21022405042004@reader1.panix.com>
Message-ID: <cpxcc.2747$BF2.522023@news20.bellglobal.com>

Roy Smith wrote:
[... JSP example ...]

> 13 lines of code instead of the original 26!  This 2:1 ratio seems to be 
> pretty typical in my experience.  It's not that I'm cramming more 
> application logic onto each line in the Python version, it's that I'm 
> getting rid of the fluff that takes up lines without adding anything 
> useful.

I've experienced the same thing with the XML applications I tend to write at 
work; the Python version is much smaller than the Java version, much easier 
to read, and it was much easier to write.  And tends to run about as quickly.

Strangely enough, I've had the same results with C# and .NET XML apps; 
smaller, with less extraneous text in the code.  And very fast.  If Mono 
and/or GNU Portable.NET were further along, I'd port my XML apps to C# (I 
need to run on OS X and, eventually, Linux as well as Windows)...

> The end result is that it's harder to write, and the effort that goes 
> into making the compiler happy is that much less effort that I can put 
> into making sure I really understand how my application should be 
> designed, and testing it.  It's a seeing the forest for the trees kind 
> of issue.

One of Python's most awesome features (IMHO at least) is that you can fire 
up an interactive interpreter while you're writing your code, and try things 
out as you go... using this technique, I've unit tested methods and 
algorithms interactively and ended up with useful, non-trivial applications 
that run and work properly the first time.

With compiled languages (Java, C#, C++), I find I'm writing a bit of code, 
taking a break to compile it, figuring out how to unit test the method... 
Python saves me a huge amount of time in the prototype and development cycles.

-- 
Chris Herborth                                     chrish at cryptocard.com
Documentation Overlord, CRYPTOCard Corp.      http://www.cryptocard.com/
Never send a monster to do the work of an evil scientist.
Postatem obscuri lateris nescitis.


From beatboxx83 at aol.com  Fri Apr 16 01:15:20 2004
From: beatboxx83 at aol.com (BeatBoxx83)
Date: 16 Apr 2004 05:15:20 GMT
Subject: Aspect Programming Module
References: <84fc4588.0404140106.3fa0c55@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <20040416011520.14072.00000420@mb-m05.aol.com>

please, give me some pointers on begenning. I would love to learn how to start.
thank you 


From roy at panix.com  Tue Apr  6 11:29:10 2004
From: roy at panix.com (Roy Smith)
Date: Tue, 06 Apr 2004 11:29:10 -0400
Subject: Does Python compete with Java?
References: <8b336527.0404051337.51bb4a1b@posting.google.com>
	<1073su4etm95p35@news.supernews.com>
	<roy-094613.21022405042004@reader1.panix.com>
	<cpxcc.2747$BF2.522023@news20.bellglobal.com>
	<tyfhdvxxkih.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
Message-ID: <roy-B8C1A2.11291006042004@reader1.panix.com>

Chris Herborth <chrish at cryptocard.com> writes:
>> With compiled languages (Java, C#, C++), I find I'm writing a bit of
>> code, taking a break to compile it, figuring out how to unit test the
>> method... Python saves me a huge amount of time in the prototype and
>> development cycles.

Jacek Generowicz <jacek.generowicz at cern.ch> wrote:
> Please note that this has nothing to do with compilation per-se. There
> are languages with to-native-binary compilers which give you all the
> instant turnaround flexibility that Python does.

Even more interesting is the fact that Java and Python both have very 
similar architectures (similar enough, in fact, that things like Jython 
are possible).  Both compile your source code text into an intermediate 
"byte code" form, and both then run this intermediate form on a virtual 
machine.

The difference is that Java exposes the compilation step to the user 
while Python hides it.  If you really wanted to, you could hack up a 
"Python compiler" which takes .py files, imports them to force 
generation of the corresponding .pyc files, and then exits without 
executing anything.  You could then execute the .pyc files in a distinct 
"execute phase".  Not sure why you would want to do that, though :-)


From jcarlson at uci.edu  Wed Apr  7 00:54:56 2004
From: jcarlson at uci.edu (Josiah Carlson)
Date: Tue, 06 Apr 2004 21:54:56 -0700
Subject: A beginner's question on thread
In-Reply-To: <mailman.382.1081232119.20120.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.382.1081232119.20120.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <c501pb$pc6$1@news.service.uci.edu>

Timothy Wu wrote:

> I'm writing a small utility that listens for socket connections, and 
> also repond to user inputs via a text menu selection.
> 
> In order to respond to both the user and the incoming connections I 
> figure I need to use thread.
> 
> I think I would use the main thread to handle the menu and spawn a 
> thread which listens on a socket.
> 
> Now my question is, how do I terminate the server thread if user wants 
> to exit the application? If the server just sit there and listen the 
> thread would never terminate by itself. What kind of inter-thread 
> communications are available and where would I find info/tutorial on that?


No need for threads.

If you have your server set up properly with asyncore, the below link 
will give you an example using wxPython that will just work...

http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&c2coff=1&safe=off&threadm=c35daa%24ka7%241%40news.service.uci.edu&rnum=1&prev=/groups%3Fhl%3Den%26lr%3D%26ie%3DISO-8859-1%26safe%3Doff%26c2coff%3D1%26q%3Djosiah%2Bsocket%2Bwxpython%26btnG%3DSearch%26meta%3Dgroup%253Dcomp.lang.python.*

Enjoy.

  - Josiah


From mark at prothon.org  Fri Apr 23 17:03:05 2004
From: mark at prothon.org (Mark Hahn)
Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2004 14:03:05 -0700
Subject: Why we will use obj$func() often
References: <d2Uhc.22272$dZ1.1600@fed1read04><84Uhc.22278$dZ1.5087@fed1read04>	<mailman.927.1082665370.20120.python-list@python.org><8AWhc.23114$dZ1.11070@fed1read04>	<mailman.939.1082697809.20120.python-list@python.org><no4ic.26268$dZ1.11413@fed1read04>
	<mailman.948.1082710758.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<sXcic.28630$dZ1.20194@fed1read04>
	<gfednZsaJf0YHhTd4p2dnA@powergate.ca>
Message-ID: <dwfic.29912$dZ1.17963@fed1read04>


"Peter Hansen" <peter at engcorp.com> wrote ...

> I have to go with Mike on the problem with $ however...

I think he makes sense also, which means my democracy is in trouble.  I put
it out for a vote and everyone is voting for $.  I should have figured this
would happen.  More people use Perl than Python also :)  (Just kidding -- no
flames please -- just kidding).




From heikowu at ceosg.de  Tue Apr 27 05:55:33 2004
From: heikowu at ceosg.de (Heiko Wundram)
Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2004 11:55:33 +0200
Subject: Default Argument Inconsistency?
In-Reply-To: <c6l8sr$5sm$2@titan.btinternet.com>
References: <c6l8sr$5sm$2@titan.btinternet.com>
Message-ID: <200404271155.34205.heikowu@ceosg.de>

I guess I'll best describe this behavior when commenting directly in the code.

Am Dienstag, 27. April 2004 11:24 schrieb Paul Sweeney:
> def f(a,L=[]):
>     if not L: L=[]

It checks whether not L (in this context, meaning that the list is empty). The 
list is (initialized with []), so the action is triggered. The action creates 
a new empty list, whose reference is now stored in L. The list which is 
constructed as the default argument is unbound from L, but still referenced 
in the function object for f (as the default argument for L, if it isn't 
present).

>     L.append(a)

The append appends an item to the newly created empty list.

>     return L

The append returns the new list.

Hope this sheds light on this behavior. When calling in for the second time, 
the default argument is still empty, a new list is created, etc. The default 
argument thus never changes from being the empty list.

Heiko.



From hwlgw at hotmail.com  Sat Apr 10 04:25:44 2004
From: hwlgw at hotmail.com (Will Stuyvesant)
Date: 10 Apr 2004 01:25:44 -0700
Subject: Python for MPG
Message-ID: <cb035744.0404100025.35f3f652@posting.google.com>

Is there Python software for dealing with MPG movies?  I am not
interested in visual effects etc. but in cutting scenes from big MGP
files and creating new files with those scenes.


From jdhunter at ace.bsd.uchicago.edu  Fri Apr 16 15:05:46 2004
From: jdhunter at ace.bsd.uchicago.edu (John Hunter)
Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2004 14:05:46 -0500
Subject: a little math problem
In-Reply-To: <20040416164439.GD26865@unpythonic.net> (Jeff Epler's message
	of "Fri, 16 Apr 2004 11:44:39 -0500")
References: <m2pta7c40a.fsf@mother.paradise.lost>
	<20040416164439.GD26865@unpythonic.net>
Message-ID: <m2n05b7ng5.fsf@mother.paradise.lost>

>>>>> "Jeff" == Jeff Epler <jepler at unpythonic.net> writes:

    Jeff> math.fmod might help Jeff

Doesn't seem to. Eg, 

    >>> 25.2%.2
    0.1999999999999979
    >>> math.fmod(25.2,2)
    1.1999999999999993
    >>> math.fmod(25.2,.2)
    0.1999999999999979

Here is what I have so far - hasn't solved the floating point problem
though


class Base:
    'this solution has floating point inaccuracies'
    def __init__(self, base):
        assert(base>0)
        self.base = base

    def lt(self, x):
        'return the largest multiple of base < x'
        d,m = divmod(x, self.base)
        if m==0: return (d-1)*self.base
        else: return d*self.base

    def le(self, x):
        'return the largest multiple of base <= x'
        d,m = divmod(x, self.base)
        return d*self.base

    def gt(self, x):
        'return the largest multiple of base > x'
        d,m = divmod(x, self.base)
        return (d+1)*self.base


    def ge(self, x):
        'return the largest multiple of base >= x'
        d,m = divmod(x, self.base)
        if m==0: return x
        return (d+1)*self.base

    def get_base(self):
        return self.base


def closeto(x,y):
    print x,y,abs(x-y), abs(x-y) < 1e-12

b = Base(.2)

closeto(b.lt(25.3), 25.2)
closeto(b.lt(25.2), 25.0)
closeto(b.le(25.3), 25.2)
closeto(b.le(25.2), 25.2)

print
closeto(b.gt(25.3), 25.4)
closeto(b.gt(25.2), 25.4)
closeto(b.ge(25.3), 25.4)
closeto(b.ge(25.2), 25.2)

print
print

b = Base(4)

closeto(b.lt(12), 8)
closeto(b.lt(13), 12)
closeto(b.le(12), 12)
closeto(b.le(13), 12)

print

closeto(b.gt(12), 16)
closeto(b.gt(13), 16)
closeto(b.ge(12), 12)
closeto(b.ge(13), 16)


        

        




From newsgroups at jhrothjr.com  Thu Apr 22 12:19:29 2004
From: newsgroups at jhrothjr.com (John Roth)
Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2004 12:19:29 -0400
Subject: AOP use cases
References: <84fc4588.0404140106.3fa0c55@posting.google.com>
	<slrnc7q1ss.1aa.alf@largo.fayauffre.org>
	<cb035744.0404141130.170f51c4@posting.google.com>
	<slrnc7sgat.vp.alf@largo.fayauffre.org>
	<cb035744.0404160442.2f0b1661@posting.google.com>
	<0pydnSB4WYuieuLdRVn-hQ@powergate.ca>
	<tyfbrlkv3ae.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
	<XYmdnVLB9rjbARrdRVn-vg@powergate.ca>
	<108f99vgg6ub501@news.supernews.com>
	<tyf3c6wusc8.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
Message-ID: <108fs4skm6qud8b@news.supernews.com>


"Jacek Generowicz" <jacek.generowicz at cern.ch> wrote in message
news:tyf3c6wusc8.fsf at pcepsft001.cern.ch...
> "John Roth" <newsgroups at jhrothjr.com> writes:
>
> > there are no, and I mean no, examples of composable programs where
> > there was no planning on making it happen.
>
> Aaah, yes, Proof by Ignorance[*], one of my favourite logical tools :-)
>
>
> [*] I don't know a programming language whose name starts with "P" and
>     ends with "n", therefore none exist. QED[+]
>
>
> [+] Best used in conjunction with Proof by Projection: None exist now,
>     therefore none have existed in the past, and none will exist in
>     the future. Ignorance is a powreful tool.

Thus sayeth the Zealot, who, when he no longer has a leg
to stand on, resorts to cutsi-poo mindreading. If you will
come up with an example, I will stand by to show you exactly
where the planning happened that allowed it to be composed.

John Roth




From claird at lairds.com  Fri Apr 16 18:13:52 2004
From: claird at lairds.com (Cameron Laird)
Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2004 22:13:52 -0000
Subject: Goodbye TCL
References: <0LudnSads6NmpuPdRVn-vw@centurytel.net>
	<21ccedf1.0404160639.14c2d852@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <1080ml0hdpp6tdf@corp.supernews.com>

In article <21ccedf1.0404160639.14c2d852 at posting.google.com>,
Phil Dietz <pedietz at west.com> wrote:
>Forget OO...
>TCL still doesn't have a standard database API in the core yet....

Was this intended as a contrast with Python?

'Different way to say this:  "database", in this sense, 
is a dirty subject, in that it's far more tied to grungy
details of specific implementations than the masses 
generally realize, or than either Python or Tcl, both of
which prize purity in their own ways, generally support.
A general database abstraction is about as rarefied as a
general GUI abstraction.
-- 

Cameron Laird <claird at phaseit.net>
Business:  http://www.Phaseit.net


From moosebumps at moosebumps.com  Sat Apr  3 16:06:17 2004
From: moosebumps at moosebumps.com (Moosebumps)
Date: Sat, 03 Apr 2004 21:06:17 GMT
Subject: Capturing stdout incrementally
Message-ID: <dHFbc.17935$656.789@newssvr27.news.prodigy.com>

I have a large set of Python scripts that interface with command line
utilities (primarily Perforce).  I am currently capturing ALL the text
output in order to get results and such.  I am using the popen functions to
get the stdout, stderr streams.

However, some of the operations take a really long time (copying large files
over the network).  If you run Perforce directly (or through os.system,
which doesn't return text output), it shows which files are getting copied,
one at a time.  However, if I'm calling it through Python's popen, it
appears to hang while it copies all the files, then suddenly all the text
output appears at once after the operation is done.

Does anyone know a way around this?  It is problematic because people think
that the program has hung, when it is really just taking a long time.  I
would like the normal stdout to be printed on the screen as it is normally
(but also captured by my Python script simultaneously).

I am on Windows by the way, so the utilities are printing to the windows
command shell.

thanks for any advice,
MB




From fumanchu at amor.org  Tue Apr 27 15:41:19 2004
From: fumanchu at amor.org (Robert Brewer)
Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2004 12:41:19 -0700
Subject: Is Perl *that* good?
Message-ID: <DE1CF2B4FEC4A342BF62B6B2B334601E56206F@opus.amorhq.net>

I wrote:
> >>I wish Python had won, as well. But time is linear (in
> >>my mind). I now wish only that we could leverage the
> >>similarity of JS and Python (execution and binding
> >>models) into more Python users. Marketing needs
> >>to run with the line, "So you know Javascript? Then
> >>you know Python!"

and Peter Hansen replied:
> I learned Javascript after learning Python. (That is, up until that
> point, I coded Javascript like a script kiddie, copying and tweaking
> without understanding.)  It was the similarities with Python that
> actually let me start to respect it somewhat.  I thought "Cool!  It's
> just like Python but with less power and an uglier syntax!"  :-)

I had a similar experience. I was just starting to appreciate Javascript
and write some more powerful applications (here and there, not
exclusively ;) when I found Python. I agree that Python has improved my
appreciation for JS: I just finished a much nicer 2.0 version of Lyrica
(a web slideshow tool*), and although I miss some of Python's clarity in
JS, I've learned a lot about how to make JS cleaner and better by
learning Python.


Robert Brewer
MIS
Amor Ministries
fumanchu at amor.org

* IE only: http://www.aminus.org/rbre/music/lyrica It's mostly a way to
get the fun of stylesheets out to the average user, without making them
learn XHTML, CSS, JS, and the DOM in all their powerful, confusing
expressiveness. I use it at church for song lyrics, but it can be used
for almost any content.



From eldiener at earthlink.net  Sat Apr  3 21:47:13 2004
From: eldiener at earthlink.net (Edward Diener)
Date: Sun, 04 Apr 2004 02:47:13 GMT
Subject: Typing \n in strings
Message-ID: <RGKbc.11130$yN6.10939@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net>

Python 2.3.3 on Win2K. In the Python tutorial it says that typing \n in
string literals is the new-line character. I open the interpreter and type a
string with a \n in it but instead of outputting a string with a new line,
it outputs the \n as literal characters of the string. Is the tutorial
wrong, is the interpreter broken, or what is happening ?




From adalke at mindspring.com  Mon Apr  5 15:49:43 2004
From: adalke at mindspring.com (Andrew Dalke)
Date: Mon, 05 Apr 2004 19:49:43 GMT
Subject: Python is faster than C
References: <406F0907.96F37EA1@tunes.org>
	<5d83790c.0404032144.482787bd@posting.google.com>
	<6y1cc.1346$Qv6.482@fe2.columbus.rr.com>
	<5d83790c.0404042306.497e0384@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <rLicc.16924$lt2.7821@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>

Raymond Hettinger:
> Likewise, I program in a less hostile world than Andrew Dalke who has
> to contend with pandora's box iterators which ruin the lives of mortal
> men who think they can call .next() with impunity ;-)

I did say "Should be rare though." :)

                    Andrew
                    dalke at dalkescientific.com

(And now you've got me thinking about the Tomb Raider II movie.
Not a bad thing.)




From youngdubliner at hotmail.com  Tue Apr 20 20:24:00 2004
From: youngdubliner at hotmail.com (youngdubliner at hotmail.com)
Date: 20 Apr 2004 17:24:00 -0700
Subject: Embedding Python in C
Message-ID: <4039221c.0404201624.119476e9@posting.google.com>

Hi All , 

Bit of a problem with Py_Parse or Py_ParseTuple ? 

I have a python script that reads a sector of flash in an embedded device. 
it returns the value of each byte within the sector as a tuple. 

i.e. [255,255,255,255,255,255,255, .......etc etc for the whole sector ! 

We are using this script to read whats currently in any sector. 
No problems there.  

Now I need to call our script from C. 

I want to copy each of the bytes within the sector into an C unsigned char *array

Is there any way to do this using Py_ParseTuple or Py_Parse ???

something like this for instance ??? ...... 

Py_ParseTuple[pres,"??",&my_c_array]

so now my_c_array[0] = 255 ,my_c_array[1] = 255 ,my_c_array[2] = 255 , etc etc 


Thanks for the help !


From none at none.com  Mon Apr 26 22:31:08 2004
From: none at none.com (JDR)
Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2004 02:31:08 GMT
Subject: Using a single module of Pygame
Message-ID: <Xns94D7DD1EEAB44nonenonecom@24.93.43.121>

Would anyone happen to know of a way to strip out the joystick module of 
Pygame?  I've written a console based application that doesn't need X, 
mixer, fonts, etc. and I can't get my application to run without X11 libs 
installed.

I've been searching google for the past hour without luck.  If anyone knows 
of any good informational sites, please let me know.  I'll keep digging 
through Python's docs.

Thanks!


From simoninusa2001 at yahoo.co.uk  Fri Apr  9 01:54:44 2004
From: simoninusa2001 at yahoo.co.uk (simo)
Date: 8 Apr 2004 22:54:44 -0700
Subject: wx.SystemSettings - GTK/Win32/Python variances
References: <30260531.0404081003.136f8759@posting.google.com>
	<xsWdnW6bO93qAejd4p2dnA@powergate.ca>
	<30260531.0404081529.195b033e@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <30260531.0404082154.1befc57a@posting.google.com>

[snip]
> > On my machine (WinXP) it contains:
> > 
> >  >>> wx.PlatformInfo
> > ('__WXMSW__', 'wxMSW', 'ascii')

Same as my Windows 2000 machine.

My RedHat9 (with Unicode) box returns ('__WXGTK__', 'wxGTK', 'ascii',
'gtk1')

[...]
> wx.SystemSettings_GetMetric(wx.SYS_VSCROLL_X) across all platforms as
> they're deprecating the other forms - which seem to be aliases for
> backwards compatibility.

Just tested this, and it works on Linux using 2.4.2.4 and 2.5.1.5 and
WinXP/2K running 2.5.1.5


From skjj at earthlink.net  Thu Apr 15 17:25:07 2004
From: skjj at earthlink.net (John Smith)
Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2004 14:25:07 -0700 (GMT-07:00)
Subject: Arbitary VTABLE/Python
Message-ID: <31031138.1082064308101.JavaMail.root@kermit.psp.pas.earthlink.net>

Sorry if these question has been answered
already, our Web searches/FAQs left us
with more questions than answers.

Few of us at a very large corporation 
are struggling to figure out if Python
stable & scalable for our needs.
(Sorry if this question has been answered
already, our Web searches/FAQs left us
with more questions than answers)


We have very,very large C++ applications
that talk to third part COM based server(s),
both in-proc & out-of-proc 

- For large arbitary vtable based interfaces, 
what is the best approach from Python?

We looked at FAQs, DOCs (including ActiveState), WEB
searches, and saw references to SWIG, PythonCOM extensions
BOOST.Python etc, and some problems people have reported using arbitary
vtable interfaces from PythonCOM (BTW: where is are DOCs on
one using/creating PythonCOM extensions? From our
WEB searhces, it looks like 'makepy' may not
work under all situations?)

What combinations of tools/modules does one recommend
for transitioning to Python based environment
where large third party COM+ based infrastructure (C++)
already exists? How stable/scalable/fast are these solutions?

Our existing C++ code base runs both on Windows & Unix
and we don't have to worry about supporting .NET right now.

Thanks.



From peter.maas at mplusr.de  Tue Apr 13 05:35:00 2004
From: peter.maas at mplusr.de (Peter Maas)
Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2004 11:35:00 +0200
Subject: Python OS
In-Reply-To: <107j4eu6ffn2c68@corp.supernews.com>
References: <107j4eu6ffn2c68@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <c5gc4n$s5q$1@swifty.westend.com>

A Evans wrote:
> I have a question concerning the development of Python Based Operating
> System. You see I have had sort of a dream to develop an Open Source
> Operating System that would revolutionize the OS market and Since I started
> using Python I have fallen in love with the language.

The first step would probably be to define a Python OS. Surely no
CPU speaks Python :) so this is a level where you have to use
machine language. A viable definition could be an OS whose high
level functions are provided by Python scripts.

You could start with e.g. www.linuxfromscratch.org and write all
scripts in Python. Twisted (www.twistedmatrix.com) would probably
fit well to such a project because it provides a lot of network
services. I have no idea how deep you can go but I think that a
lot of C in between is necessary.

Mit freundlichen Gruessen,

Peter Maas

-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Peter Maas, M+R Infosysteme, D-52070 Aachen, Hubert-Wienen-Str. 24
Tel +49-241-93878-0 Fax +49-241-93878-20 eMail peter.maas at mplusr.de
-------------------------------------------------------------------


From amakeler at bezeqint.net  Wed Apr 21 18:37:30 2004
From: amakeler at bezeqint.net (Avraham Makeler)
Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2004 15:37:30 -0700
Subject: from newbie: how specify # of times to invoke a regex;
	conv tuple to string
Message-ID: <40866ae1$1@news.bezeqint.net>


      Hi all,

      Question 1:

      Summary of Question: How do you specify the number of times to run a
reg ex search using a complex reg ex?

       The reg _expression I wrote goes like this:

                   MyRE =
re.compile('([k-z])(?:\'{6,9})(64|32|16|8|4|2|1)(\.)?')

       I ran it using this:

                   tplstFound = MyRE.findall(InputStr)

      The problem is that this solution processes the whole input string. I
only need the first matches notes. (I don't know if this is going to make
any practical difference, since the name generation is a one-time thing, and
anyway PCs are very fast these days.)

      I could not see a way of writing the reg ex so that it specifies only
the first 25 matches. I tried putting the {m,n} construct (ie {0,25}) at the
end of the re ex but it did not work.

      Alternatively, realizing that reg exs are probably not supposed to be
used that way anyway, the responsibility for the number of executions should
probably rather be put on some method of the MyRE object. However, I could
not find a method that specifies the number of times that the reg ex search
should be performed on the input file.

      Question 2:

      Summary of Question: How do you convert a tuple to a string?

      When I get the list of notes returned from the MyRE.findall()
function, it is returned as a list of tuples, where each musical note is
represented by one tuple. The tuple contains a set of strings where each
string is the result of the reg ex match per group.

      For example: the raw input is matched and returned as the following
tuple:

                  ('e', '', '8', '.')

      I could not find a function that converts a tuple to a string. Please
tell me where it is and in which module it is. Yes, I can loop through the
tuples, and then loop through the string components of the tuple to build
the result string, but isn't there a single function that does it?

      Thanks.

      Avraham Makeler.






From claird at lairds.com  Sun Apr  4 17:38:39 2004
From: claird at lairds.com (Cameron Laird)
Date: Sun, 04 Apr 2004 21:38:39 -0000
Subject: What's missing from python?
References: <405ee0d0$0$63627$5a6aecb4@news.aaisp.net.uk>
	<405ff7f4$0$63620$5a6aecb4@news.aaisp.net.uk>
	<899f842.0403230845.70e26735@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <107102vh15c8380@corp.supernews.com>

In article <899f842.0403230845.70e26735 at posting.google.com>,
Anthony_Barker <anthony_barker at hotmail.com> wrote:
>> > Encryption - AES and 3DES. Possibly RSA and Certificate processing.
>> > DNS - Something better than gethostbyaddr for looking up other record 
>> > types.
>> > Database - Something suitable for small projects / prototypes like 
>> > pysqlite or something in pure python even.
>> > SSL/TLS - Some useful support...
>
>I agree and would add the ldap module.
>
>My feeling is that once a module is included in the standard library
>the level of documentation and testing improves significantly. I've
>always prefered the python way of including libraries over perl.
>
>If the distro is too large you could always modify the installer to
>allow users to choose which modules to include(like ms office does
>with apps).

Heh-heh:  "you could always ..."  Installers can be
bigger investments than whole collections of modules.

I am fond of LDAP, by the way.
-- 

Cameron Laird <claird at phaseit.net>
Business:  http://www.Phaseit.net


From No.Spam.mc at No.Spam.mclaveau.No.Spam.com  Fri Apr  9 02:17:40 2004
From: No.Spam.mc at No.Spam.mclaveau.No.Spam.com (Michel Claveau/Hamster)
Date: Fri, 9 Apr 2004 08:17:40 +0200
Subject: Function args
References: <sdqdc.37060$zm5.15866@nntpserver.swip.net>
Message-ID: <c55f5r$f2l$1@news-reader4.wanadoo.fr>

Bonjour !

En Python, les variables sont des sortes de pointeurs sur des objets. Tout
passage de variable comme param?tres se fait forc?ment par r?f?rence (en
fait, on passe la r?f?rence ? l'objet).
De plus l'affectation d'une variable cr?e un autre objet, car la plupart des
objets ne sont pas modifiables.

Seuls le sont les listes et les dictionnaires sont modifiables. Une cha?ne
de caract?res n'est pas modifiable non plus.

Cependant, il existe des modules contenant d'autres types ayant des
comportement diff?rents. Il est ?galement possible de d?finir ses propres
classes, dont on (re)-d?finira le comportement.



PS : il existe aussi un newsgroup   fr.comp.lang.python



@-salutations
--
Michel Claveau
m?l : http://cerbermail.com/?6J1TthIa8B
site : http://mclaveau.com




From steve at ferg.org  Tue Apr 20 13:17:59 2004
From: steve at ferg.org (Stephen Ferg)
Date: 20 Apr 2004 10:17:59 -0700
Subject: Threats to the: Daily Python URL!
References: <2ae25c6b.0404182250.4c5bc870@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.767.1082387435.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<MPG.1aee4f691dd37f89989684@news.wowway.com>
Message-ID: <b16e4ef7.0404200917.660e29e0@posting.google.com>

> 'Daily Python' is the first
> thing I read each morning.

Me too!


From jacek.generowicz at cern.ch  Mon Apr  5 04:03:01 2004
From: jacek.generowicz at cern.ch (Jacek Generowicz)
Date: 05 Apr 2004 10:03:01 +0200
Subject: [maybe OT] Making posters
References: <95aa1afa.0404030143.58c32975@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <tyfhdvyzway.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>

michele.simionato at poste.it (Michele Simionato) writes:

> I am looking for a tool taking a postscript file and enlarging it to
> make a poster.

It's called "Postscript".

You could start by looking here:

http://www.cs.indiana.edu/docproject/programming/postscript/operators.html#scale


From huggiepython at graffiti.idv.tw  Sun Apr 11 12:03:59 2004
From: huggiepython at graffiti.idv.tw (Timothy Wu)
Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2004 00:03:59 +0800
Subject: GUI Frameworks in Python?
In-Reply-To: <c4tddj$2mjvdq$1@ID-169208.news.uni-berlin.de>
References: <mailman.102.1080629227.20120.python-list@python.org>	<930ba99a.0404030246.786455f5@posting.google.com>	<8ef9bea6.0404041009.26ae2683@posting.google.com>
	<c4tddj$2mjvdq$1@ID-169208.news.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <40796C6F.2030104@graffiti.idv.tw>

Greg Ewing wrote:
> The basic idea is fairly similar in both, but event handlers
> ("signal handlers" in Gtk terminology) seem more straightforward
> to set up in PyGtk. In wxPython, for example, you have to get the
> ID number of the widget and pass that to an event-binding function;
> in PyGtk, you just pass the widget itself.

I don't know wxPython really well and know nothing on other toolkit for 
any language. But doesn't calling wxWindow::GetId() on a widget quite 
similar to passing in the widget itself?

Timothy



From f29 at gazeta.pl  Thu Apr  1 07:24:59 2004
From: f29 at gazeta.pl (f29)
Date: 1 Apr 2004 04:24:59 -0800
Subject: Fetching websites with Python
References: <c4eve2$f50$04$1@news.t-online.com>
	<_6Fac.9377$He5.187843@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>
	<30260531.0403311608.6cda48c5@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <aeaacf65.0404010424.3933a786@posting.google.com>

> > Markus,
> >     I think there's a timeout in urllib; not sure.
> 
> No there isn't, bit of a shame that. There is in httplib.

Sure there is, use urllib or urllib2 as usual, but also import socket
module and call "socket.setdefaulttimeout(secs)" before requesting any
pages with urlopen.

f29


From opengeometry at yahoo.ca  Mon Apr 12 18:05:05 2004
From: opengeometry at yahoo.ca (William Park)
Date: 12 Apr 2004 22:05:05 GMT
Subject: String + number split
References: <2SAec.70005$Id.6002@news-binary.blueyonder.co.uk>
	<mfydnfKTtqtWRufdRVn-uQ@powergate.ca>
	<c5epc8$1scu$1@news.wplus.net>
Message-ID: <c5f3qh$va0m$1@ID-99293.news.uni-berlin.de>

Stevie_mac <no.email at please.com> wrote:
> Heres my solution...
> 
> import string
> def makefont(sFontName):
>     num = []
>     nam = []
>     acnt = 0
>     #reverse it
>     l = list(sFontName); l.reverse(); ''.join(l)
>     sFontName = string.join(l,'')
>      #now loop it while isdigit(), store number, then store alphas
>     for c in sFontName:
>         if c.isdigit() and acnt == 0:
>             num.append(c)
>         elif c.isalpha() or acnt > 1:
>             acnt += 1
>             nam.append(c)
>     nam.reverse()
>     num.reverse()
>     return (string.join( nam, '' ), int(string.join( num, '' )))
> 
> Now you see why i was asking for a more elegant solution!
> 
> PS, the number on the end may vary  &  the _ could be any non alpha char!
> 
>  font12        becomes         ('font',12)
>  arial_14      becomes        ('arial',14)
>  arial__8      becomes        ('arial',8)
>  times 6      becomes        ('times',6)

Assuming you only have 2 fields to worry about, play around with
    1. re.split('[^a-z0-9]+', '...')
    2. re.findall('[a-z]+|[0-9]+', '...')

Essentially, you want to pickout '[a-z]+' first and then '[0-9]+', ie.
    ([a-z]+)[^0-9]+([0-9]+)

-- 
William Park, Open Geometry Consulting, <opengeometry at yahoo.ca>
Linux solution/training/migration, Thin-client


From a-steinhoff at web.de  Fri Apr  2 14:54:34 2004
From: a-steinhoff at web.de (Armin Steinhoff)
Date: Fri, 02 Apr 2004 21:54:34 +0200
Subject: Just magic ...
In-Reply-To: <c4jfh6$6pa$07$1@news.t-online.com>
References: <ddc19db7.0404011238.e6c2db9@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.249.1080853115.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<c4jfh6$6pa$07$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <c4kjrl$8jp$05$1@news.t-online.com>

root wrote:
> Jeff Epler wrote:
> 
>> I don't know, and since the code you posted doesn't run I can't find
>> out.
> 
> 
> #it's only a subset of the code ...
> 
> class SlaveParSet(QDialog):
>     def __init__(self,parent = None, name=None, modal = 0, fl = 0,
>                  Conf='PROFIBUS', saddr= 0):
> 
>         if name == None:
>             self.setName('SlaveParSet')
> 
>         self.config_name=conf
>         self.slave_addr = saddr
> 
>         self.gsd_connect = sqlite.connect("gsd_db")
>         self.gsd_curs    = self.gsd_connect.cursor()
> 
>         # open project data base
>         self.prj_connect = sqlite.connect("proj_db")
>         self.prj_curs    = self.prj_connect.cursor()
> 
>         self.ID = ''
>         self.IMpos = 0
> 
> 
>     # insert selected module into installed modules
>     def ModuleSelectionval(self, nr):
>         module = str(self.ModuleSelection.text(nr))
> 
>         #rebuild pos/module relationship
>         Sel = str("""select mod_pos, mod_name, proj, saddr,
>                      mod_config_data, mod_prm_data
>                      from INSTMODULE where proj= %s and saddr = %s""")
>         Key = (self.config_name, self.slave_addr)
>         self.prj_curs.execute(Sel, Key)
>         ins_list = self.prj_curs.fetchall()
> 
> #ins_list is a list and contains now one tuple
> 
>         if len(ins_list):
>            self.IMpos +=1
>            InsPos = self.IMpos
> 
>            Ins = str("""insert into INSTMODULE(mod_pos, mod_name, proj,
>                         saddr, mod_config_data, mod_prm_data)
>                         values (%s, %s, %s, %s, %s, %s)""")
> 
>            self.IMpos =0
>            for set in ins_list:
>               setdata = (self.IMpos,) +  set[1:]
> 
> # set should reference a tuple but it refers to class instance .. WHY??


However ... my work around looks like:

            for set in ins_list:
               lset = ()
               for i,val in enumerate(set):
                   lset = lset+ (val,)

               self.setdata = (self.IMpos,) +  lset[1:]
               self.prj_curs.execute(Ins, self.setdata)
               self.InstModules.insertItem(lset[1], self.IMpos)

Is there a better solution ??

Armin

> 
>               self.prj_curs.execute(Ins, setdata)
>               self.InstModules.insertItem(set[1], self.IMpos)
>               self.IMpos +=1
>               if InsPos == self.IMpos:
>                  self.InstModules.insertItem(new_item[1], self.IMpos)
>                  self.prj_curs.execute(self.Ins, new_item)
>                  self.IMpos +=1
>            if self.IMpos > 0:
>               self.IMpos -= 1
> 
>            self.InstModules.setCurrentItem(self.IMpos)
>            self.prj_connect.commit()
>         else:
>            self.IMpos = 0
>            self.InstModules.clear()
>            self.InstModules.insertItem(module, self.IMpos)
>            self.InstModules.setCurrentItem(self.IMpos)
> 
> 
> 
>>
>>
>>>>> self.IMpos =0
>>
>>
>> Traceback (most recent call last):
>>   File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
>> NameError: name 'self' is not defined
>>
>> Jeff
>>


From mark at prothon.org  Wed Apr 21 14:14:00 2004
From: mark at prothon.org (Mark Hahn)
Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2004 11:14:00 -0700
Subject: Dollar sign ($) on foriegn keyboards? (prothon)
References: <mk3hc.13895$dZ1.10823@fed1read04>
	<c62m70$2hu$06$1@news.t-online.com>
	<slrnc89q11.pnv.joe@gate.notcharles.ca>
	<c631kk$9j9$04$1@news.t-online.com>
	<oBhhc.17591$dZ1.14065@fed1read04>
	<c1qhc.18439$dZ1.2680@fed1read04>
	<c65fkf$1q4$05$2@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <IRyhc.19116$dZ1.15323@fed1read04>


"Peter Otten" <__peter__ at web.de> wrote in message
news:c65fkf$1q4$05$2 at news.t-online.com...


> You seem to be both determined and open to critique - a good combination
> IMHO.

Well, thank you very much.  Why don't you come over and help?  (Always
pitching the cause... :)




From jjl at pobox.com  Thu Apr 29 17:06:14 2004
From: jjl at pobox.com (John J. Lee)
Date: 29 Apr 2004 22:06:14 +0100
Subject: urllib2 timeout??
References: <mailman.6.1082950115.25742.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <877jvy5wah.fsf@pobox.com>

"Doug Gray" <dgray at coldstorage.com> writes:
[...]
>             request =
> urllib2.Request("http://fantasygames.sportingnews.com/crs/home_check_reg.htm
> l",data='username=penngray1&password=testpwd')
> 
>             response = ClientCookie.urlopen(request)
> 
>             #return response.info()
> 
>             request2
> =urllib2.Request("http://fantasygames.sportingnews.com/baseball/fullseason/u
> ltimate/game/frozen_roster.html?user_id=6208")
> 
>             resp2 = ClientCookie.urlopen(request2)
> 
>             return resp2.read()

Looks fine.  No need to have an explicit Request object every time,
though: just pass the URL to urlopen.


> The ClientCookie is a 3rd party software that handles the Set-cookie stuff
> on the client for me. This allows me to login into a site then access other
> webpages from that site that need cookies set. The problem is that 50% of
> the time it works and 50% of the time it fails. I assume this problem is a
> time out problem

As they used to say in Parliament: I refer the Honourable Gentleman to
the answer I gave some moments ago (in a thread with subject "urllib2
request blocks").  I'm not sure it's a timeout problem, though.


> Is there a time out problem here, why is the connection so slow in the first
> place. Is it my unix server?

Looks like some relatively low-level problem (some socket error that
httplib's not catching).  Not sure precisely what, though.

[...]
> Traceback (most recent call last):
[...]
>   File "/usr/lib/python2.3/site-packages/ClientCookie/_urllib2_support.py",
> line 612, in do_open
>     raise URLError(err)
>  
> URLError: 

I'm not sure why you're not getting a more informative error message
here.  URLError here is wrapping a socket.error.  Try catching it and
printing the socket error directly:

try:
    response = urllib2.OpenerDirector.open(self, req, data)
except urllib2.URLError, e:
    print "e.reason", e.reason


John


From grzegorz at ee.ualberta.ca  Sat Apr 17 12:50:56 2004
From: grzegorz at ee.ualberta.ca (Grzegorz Dostatni)
Date: Sat, 17 Apr 2004 12:50:56 -0400
Subject: Static Modules...
In-Reply-To: <Xns94CECB9B070C3cliechtigmxnet@62.2.16.4>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0404171006210.27811-100000@e5-05.ee.ualberta.ca>
	<Xns94CECB9B070C3cliechtigmxnet@62.2.16.4>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0404171238540.29550-100000@e5-05.ee.ualberta.ca>


> "import this" -> "Explicit is better than implicit."

This is exactly my point. My way will only work when you reference the
name explicitly, as in:

sys.setrecursionlimit(500)

You're referencing the sys module explicitly. Other than that this
"problem" exactly parallels the discussion between static and dynamic
typing. And we know which way python chooses to go.

> you dont easily see what exetrnal modules a program uses. that makes it
> more difficult to debug, and it makes neat things like py2exe/installer
> impossible.

Alright. I haven't even though of py2exe/installer problem. Still a
solution to that is not outside the realm of possibility. The easiest hack
would be for the autoload to save the "imports" file in the same
directory or display a warning (which is trivially done with the warning
module).


> a slight missconception is also there, as variables dont exist out of
> nothing, they start apearing when you assign something to them. (appart
> from that i dont like to say "variable" in python, more like binding names
> to objects.)

Here I would argue that the variables did not get created out of nothing.
It's equivalent to this code:

--- BEGIN HERE ---
import Tkinter, sys
Tkinter.Button(text="Quit", command=sys.exit).pack()
--- END HERE ---

Which is representative of another python philosophy. Don't specify things
you don't need. If you can resonably figure out (without ambiguity) what
the user wants do to - just do it. Don't pester him/her with unnecessary
questions.


> so something similar to using "variables" would be:
>
> sys = __import__("sys")
>
> which is already possible without any hack ;-)
>
> however, it could be a nice little hack for interactive sessions when
> playing around in the interpreter. but i'd like to see a message when it
> imports something, so that later when copy&pasting something to a file, i
> dont forget the imports.

That's a good idea.

Greg




From dave at pythonapocrypha.com  Mon Apr  5 11:46:11 2004
From: dave at pythonapocrypha.com (Dave Brueck)
Date: Mon, 5 Apr 2004 09:46:11 -0600
Subject: slightly OT: BUT NEEDs to be said
References: <4078daf265c69e9353e8af72542da703@dizum.com>
Message-ID: <01f901c41b25$1f0dbb30$6700a8c0@YODA>

Nomen wrote:
> I think it would be great for Python.org/people behind Python to adopt this
> as an official mascot and DROP the god awful references to Monty Pythons's
> Flying Circus. It is the later which is causing a slow take up and reluctance
> of many individuals using Python.
[snip]
> Let me put it this way Python as a languge and product is *damaged* by the
> references littered everywhere to MPFC.

Well, I'll probably get in big trouble for revealing this, but the references
to Monty Python are the result of a very conscious decision on the part of
Python's authors, and they make up but a small part of an elaborate set of user
filters that ensure that only a certain subset of programmers will ever use the
language.

For example, the real reason flame wars on c.l.py are quite tame by Usenet
standards isn't because programming in Python makes you a happier, and in turn
a nicer person, but it's because the group / mailing list regulars are more or
less ALL THE SAME TYPE OF PEOPLE - they are all people who were not removed by
the user filters, and therefore make up a more or less homogeneous bunch. To
hide this fact occasionally someone will get a private email instructing them
to bring up American politics or some other topic sure to incite controversy.
Sure, they obey and bring it up in a thread, but it dies off so quickly because
it's hard to put one's heart into it.

I remember that one time the user filters were suspected by some outsiders, and
Guido privately threatened to introduce mandatory curly braces around code
blocks if we as a group didn't convince people "on the outside" that the
filters didn't exist - hence the big conditional operator debate of '03. We
actually got assigned sides in that debate - didn't even get to pick them
ourselves.

Anyway, the Monty Python references filter out people that are too uptight
humor-wise, but there are many others. For example, if you ask about
significant whitespace you'll get a hand-waving answer about some mysterious
usability study in the ABC language, but nobody's actually ever seen it. In
reality, it's just the filter that gets rid of people who fall apart upon
learning that tedious work they diligently performed in the past was
detrimental to their health (this filter does not work 100% of the time, thus
the more reliable no-variable-type-declarations filter).

The whole "Guido is Dutch" thing is another one - this time used to eliminate
those who fear the unknown. He was born and raised in Quebec, and the accent is
actually French, but so few of us Americans know the difference that it never
gets him in trouble.

There are more filters in place, all of them organized and perpetuated by the
Python Secret Underground - a dark, time-machine wielding organization about
which little is known. Occasionally some details of its work slip through to
the public
(http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&selm=9jah18%24fqu%
241%40newshost.accu.uu.nl), but often I can't tell if such snafus are honest
mistakes, bait to throw us off-track, or encrypted recruitment messages.

Somebody's at my door - better send this off quick. Before I do though, I do
want to shed light on the all-time greatest user filter put in place by the
PSU - the autocoding project by Ti.*%^ NO CARRIER




From vardhman at students.iiit.net  Mon Apr  5 08:40:29 2004
From: vardhman at students.iiit.net (Vardhman Jain)
Date: Mon, 05 Apr 2004 18:10:29 +0530
Subject: query regarding OOP functionality in python
Message-ID: <407153BD.9080203@students.iiit.net>

Hi,
    I tried searching a bit about this on the net, but couldn't get much 
help, so I am posting it here.
Could someone tell me, what kind of polymorphisms does python allows?  
Does it allow multiple functions with same name and different 
arguments?  Does it allow multiple functions with same name but 
different return types. I have tried this with constructors and failed, 
So I suppose I might need to compile the code or something like that to 
gain this feature if it exists.

I know it allows default values to function arguments but that is not 
sufficient for my purpose.



From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Fri Apr  9 13:30:56 2004
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 9 Apr 2004 13:30:56 -0400
Subject: Zope + Python thread safety
References: <mailman.440.1080288470.742.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <c56mkg$840$1@panix1.panix.com>

In article <mailman.440.1080288470.742.python-list at python.org>,
 <fowlertrainer at anonym.hu> wrote:
>
>In Delphi, or C, with threaded application I must acquire/release a
>lock, when I check/set/read any variable (except integer), like this
>(pseudo):
>
>lock=Lock
>func ReadVar():string;
> lock.Enter;
> try
>  Result:=GlobalVar;
> finally
>  lock.Leave;
>end;
>
>proc WriteVar(val:string);
> lock.Enter;
> try
>  GlobalVar:=val;
> finally
>  lock.Leave;
>end;

Python is wonderful: readable and usable pseudocode is almost exactly
the same as real Python code:

import threading
lock = threading.RLock()
def ReadVar():
    lock.acquire()
    Result = GlobalVar
    lock.release()
    return Result

Note that I'm doing this just to show you how similar it is -- this is
*NOT* how I'd recommend doing it (e.g. poor practice to use a global
variable like that).
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

Why is this newsgroup different from all other newsgroups?


From __peter__ at web.de  Thu Apr  1 06:41:01 2004
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Thu, 01 Apr 2004 13:41:01 +0200
Subject: test for nan
References: <mailman.138.1080679635.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<c4gjfj$gt4$1@swifty.westend.com>
	<c4gp0s$av1$07$1@news.t-online.com>
	<c4gqnb$oaf$1@swifty.westend.com>
Message-ID: <c4gv4d$k94$07$1@news.t-online.com>

Peter Maas wrote:

> def isNaN(x):
>      return (x == 0) and (x == 1)

This works here. Do you have an idea what the rationale behind this
behaviour (i. e. any number == nan) is?

Peter


From fumanchu at amor.org  Thu Apr  1 12:41:03 2004
From: fumanchu at amor.org (Robert Brewer)
Date: Thu, 1 Apr 2004 09:41:03 -0800
Subject: splitting one dictionary into two
Message-ID: <DE1CF2B4FEC4A342BF62B6B2B334601E561F98@opus.amorhq.net>

[jsaul]
> > I have to split a dict into two dicts. Depending on their values,
> > the items shall remain in the original dict or be moved to another
> > one and at the same time be removed from the original dict.
> > 
> >     dict1 = { "a":1, "b":3, "c":5, "d":4, "e":2 }
> >     dict2 = {}
> >     klist = []
> > 
> >     for key in dict1:
> >         if dict1[key] > 3: # some criterion
> >             dict2[key] = dict1[key]
> >             klist.append(key)
> > 
> >     for key in klist:
> >         del dict1[key]
> > 
> >     print dict1
> >     print dict2
> > 
> > That means that I store the keys of the items to be removed from
> > the original dict in a list (klist) and subsequently remove the
> > items using these keys.
> > 
> > Is there an "even more pythonic" way?

---- cleave.py ----

def cleave(mapping, truthfunc):
    """Solution by Robert Brewer."""
    dict1, dict2 = {}, {}
    while mapping:
        key, value = mapping.popitem()
        if truthfunc(key, value):
            dict2[key] = value
        else:
            dict1[key] = value
    return dict1, dict2

def extractbykey(mapping, truthfunc):
    """Solution by Peter Otten."""
    dict2 = {}
    for key in mapping:
        if truthfunc(key, mapping[key]):
            dict2[key] = mapping[key]
    
    for key in dict2:
        del mapping[key]
    
    return mapping, dict2

def inplace(mapping, truthfunc):
    """Solution by wes weston."""
    dict2 = {}
    for key, value in mapping.items():
         if truthfunc(key, value): # some criterion
             dict2[key] = value
             del mapping[key]

--- end cleave.py ---

>>> t1 = timeit.Timer("cleave.cleave(m, lambda k, v: v % 2)", "import
cleave\nm = {}\nfor i in xrange(100):\n    m[i] = i")
>>> t2 = timeit.Timer("cleave.extractbykey(m, lambda k, v: v % 2)",
"import cleave\nm = {}\nfor i in xrange(100):\n    m[i] = i")
>>> t3 = timeit.Timer("cleave.inplace(m, lambda k, v: v % 2)", "import
cleave\nm = {}\nfor i in xrange(100):\n    m[i] = i")

>>> t1.timeit(100000)
0.28098654996654204
>>> t2.timeit(100000)
5.6455228248282765
>>> t3.timeit(100000)
6.3886250906189161

...this also holds for larger dicts:

>>> t1 = timeit.Timer("cleave.cleave(m, lambda k, v: v % 2)", "import
cleave\nm = {}\nfor i in xrange(1000000):\n    m[i] = i")
>>> t2 = timeit.Timer("cleave.extractbykey(m, lambda k, v: v % 2)",
"import cleave\nm = {}\nfor i in xrange(1000000):\n    m[i] = i")
>>> t3 = timeit.Timer("cleave.inplace(m, lambda k, v: v % 2)", "import
cleave\nm = {}\nfor i in xrange(1000000):\n    m[i] = i")

>>> t1.timeit(10)
2.1568995500824828
>>> t2.timeit(10)
7.0625512460382538
>>> t3.timeit(10)
34.820299227974488


[wes weston]
>     I'll have a hack with small code. Nice that you can
> iterate while removing.

...yes, but you quickly pay a price by using .items(), which IIRC
creates an intermediate dict to hold the k/v pairs.

I'm not a master on the internal workings of dict, but I *believe*
cleave() will scale better, since it neither introduces an intermediary
structure, nor is a key/value pair ever present in more than one dict at
the same time. Someone correct me if I'm wrong.


Robert Brewer
MIS
Amor Ministries
fumanchu at amor.org



From parker at gol.com  Thu Apr 15 04:28:36 2004
From: parker at gol.com (Ian Parker)
Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2004 09:28:36 +0100
Subject: Method for providing a trail period on a program
References: <L8idnY07QbRfNPHdRVn-hw@comcast.com>
	<slrnc6pcmh.1f2.bignose-hates-spam@rose.localdomain.fake>
	<407CF4F0.4020604@yahoo.com.au> <avOdnevBfd4kPODdRVn-gg@comcast.com>
	<pqs0l1-6og.ln1@home.rogerbinns.com>
Message-ID: <M5Gx8hE0ekfAFwAN@hiredata.gol.com>

In article <pqs0l1-6og.ln1 at home.rogerbinns.com>, Roger Binns 
<rogerb at rogerbinns.com> writes
>> I am however, not prepared to
>> let them run it forever for free.  If it provides
>> value to them, I believe they should purchase a
>> license.  This may put me in the minority on
>> a Python site, but that's the way I feel.
>
>Keep a counter of how many times the program has been
>run, and how long a time period it has been used for.
>Start whining once they get past a reasonable trial
>period.
>
>I would store the counters in the registry or somewhere
>similar.  The user could go in and edit them back down
>to zero, but at that point they are trying to immorally
>alter the software function to get around the period.
>There is no real point trying to deal with people who
>are absolutely determined to steal.  They will always
>succeed.  People who have to make minor changes
>to circumvent stuff know they are doing wrong.
>
>You can also add in a weekly check for updates (with
>the users permission).  That will remind people that
>they get to pay for the software's continued improvement
>(unless 1.0 happens to be perfect and user requirements
>never change :-)
>
>Roger
>
>

I second this.  People may accept a copy of software from an associate, 
or be pleasantly surprised that a visiting engineer has installed some 
software on one of their computers.  They may gloss over the fact that 
it is not licensed.

However, if the only way they can keep the software working is to reset 
the date on the PC or to clear some registry entries, they tend to 
recognise that this is at least immoral and perhaps criminal abuse.

So give the potential user fully functioning trial software but include 
a timed expiry.  If it is useful to them, they may well buy it.

Regards

-- 
Ian Parker


From krehbiel3 at comcast.net  Sun Apr 11 07:16:47 2004
From: krehbiel3 at comcast.net (Richard Krehbiel)
Date: Sun, 11 Apr 2004 07:16:47 -0400
Subject: Python is the best and most popular general purpose scripting
 language; the universal scripting language
In-Reply-To: <roy-22B4DA.18282210042004@reader1.panix.com>
References: <a5415304.0404101350.271088f2@posting.google.com>
	<roy-22B4DA.18282210042004@reader1.panix.com>
Message-ID: <YoudnXzNoZf3teTdRVn-tA@comcast.com>

Roy Smith wrote:
> rstephens at vectron.com (Ron Stephens) wrote:
> 
>>Python is the best and most popular general purpose scripting
>>language.
> 
> 
> Which raises the question, exactly what makes something a "scripting" 
> langauge?  When I tell people I do Python, they often say something 
> like, "that's a scripting language, right?".  My usual response is 
> something along the lines of "Well, I suppose that depends on who you 
> ask" and I'm not sure what to say after that.
> 
> So, what makes something a "scripting language" as opposed to a 
> "programming language"?

There isn't one big thing that makes the distinction, but there are "clues:"

Scripting Languages are "interpreted", not compiled to machine code. 
(Having a JIT engine like Psyco doesn't change my opinion on this; the 
code deployed is the source, or an intermediate form like .pyc.)

Scripting languages do not have variable type declaration statements. 
Variables in scripting languages are dynamically-typed, and hold 
whatever type you assign to them.

Scripting languages put a lot of emphasis on string manipulation, and 
usually have regular-expression support built in.  They usually have a 
"big raw string literal" syntax, by which a string literal spanning 
multiple lines and containing most of the usual escape characters can be 
expressed simply.


From jcarlson at uci.edu  Fri Apr  2 15:44:44 2004
From: jcarlson at uci.edu (Josiah Carlson)
Date: Fri, 02 Apr 2004 12:44:44 -0800
Subject: emergent/swarm/evolutionary systems etc
In-Reply-To: <mailman.268.1080907791.20120.python-list@python.org>
References: <c4aeq8$92a$1@hercules.btinternet.com>	<c4btjr$8il$1@titan.btinternet.com>	<c4ccs2$l9j$1@news.service.uci.edu>	<c4hjp4$dg6$1@sparta.btinternet.com>	<c4ibr0$ngm$1@news.service.uci.edu>
	<c4jehj$6eh$1@titan.btinternet.com>	<c4jjad$ce4$1@titan.btinternet.com>
	<mailman.268.1080907791.20120.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <c4kji1$1ej$1@news.service.uci.edu>

> fh = open(file, "r+") ## Do you need "b" (binary) for a text file?

Of course not, but keeping that binary flag allows you to get all the 
information from a file when you are on windows.  Depending on the 
contents, this is not always the case.

Inserting the binary flag in *nix doesn't hurt anything.

  - Josiah


From peter at engcorp.com  Fri Apr 16 15:22:51 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2004 15:22:51 -0400
Subject: Error copying a file
In-Reply-To: <c5p9ph$7h9$1@newshost.mot.com>
References: <c5ka45$c8v$1@newshost.mot.com>
	<c5mbfv$qc4$1@absinth.dialog.net.pl>
	<c5p9ph$7h9$1@newshost.mot.com>
Message-ID: <OPydnXBP97gWrx3dRVn-hw@powergate.ca>

Stephen Boulet wrote:

> Krzysztof Stachlewski wrote:
>> Stephen Boulet wrote:
>>>  >>> print myfile
>>> E:\Fritz Reiner\Rimsky-Korsakov--Scheherazade.Debussy--La Mer\01 
>>> Symphonic Suite after "A Thousand and One Nights" - The Sea and 
>>> Sinbad's Ship.ogg
>>
>> It seems you are on Windows box.
>> What filesystem do you use?
>> I have just tried to create such a file, but the filesystem (NTFS)
>> refuses to use " as part of the name.
> 
> I'm on win2000. The file is on a CD I burned, and I wanted to copy it to 
>  a file name that doesn't have any quotation marks in it. The problem is 
> that I can't reference the file to begin with. The command:
> 
>    shutil.copy2(myfile,r'D:\foo.ogg')

Krzysztof's idea was excellent, because the quotation marks *are* the
source of the problem.  I don't know why, and maybe it should be
considered a bug on Windows (note I don't say *in* Windows or *in*
Python, because it could be either), but I can get the same behaviour
by creating a file manually on Linux and then trying to access it
through a file share from Windows.  In the following, drive G: is
my Samba-shared drive:

G:\>python
 >>> import os
 >>> os.path.isfile('This is a "test" file')
True
 >>> os.path.isfile('This is a "test" filex')   # just testing
False
 >>> import shutil
 >>> shutil.copy('This is a "test" file', r'c:\test.txt')
Traceback (most recent call last):
   File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
   File "c:\a\python23\lib\shutil.py", line 71, in copy
     copyfile(src, dst)
   File "c:\a\python23\lib\shutil.py", line 37, in copyfile
     fsrc = open(src, 'rb')
IOError: [Errno 2] No such file or directory: 'This is a "test" file'


Perhaps your only option for now, since it seems shutil.copy
uses the underlying OS copy and that barfs on Windows, is to
open the file and copy it the hard way:

 >>> data = file('This is a "test" file').read()
Traceback (most recent call last):
   File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
IOError: [Errno 2] No such file or directory: 'This is a "test" file'


Ouch!  That doesn't work either. ;-)

Okay, any reason not to call this a bug in the Windows version of
Python, when os.path.isfile can handle the name but Python can't
open or copy the file?


Note that os.listdir() on my machine shows the 8.3 format name
even though apparently on Stephen's CD it does not:

 >>> os.listdir('.')
['peter', 'im', 'THISI~LT', 'quicken.old']

(Stephen, I think therein lies your solution for now though, which
is to find the 8.3 format name with, say, "DIR /x" or maybe
win32api.GetShortPathName (if that even works) and copy it that
way.)

-Peter


From ChrisSorisio at PeakTechnical.com  Fri Apr 23 14:40:36 2004
From: ChrisSorisio at PeakTechnical.com (Sorisio, Chris)
Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2004 14:40:36 -0400
Subject: mx.DateTime.Error: cannot convert value to a time value
Message-ID: <C2D012DB5BE7D51197010002A53F0E1701258E27@sinet001.peaktechnical.com>

Ladies and gentlemen,

I've imported some data from a MySQL database into a Python dictionary.  I'm
attempting to tidy up the date fields, but I'm receiving a
'mx.DateTime.Error: cannot convert value to a time value' error.  It's
related to glibc returning an error to a pre-1970 date, I think.

My question:  /how/ do I go through the Python direction I've created to
remove the pre-1970 date objects?  Ideally, I would be able to iterate
through the dict and remove any DateTime objects that cause int() to fail.
Unfortunately, the DateTime error causes my script to abort entirely.

Ex:

>>> report["COMPANY X"][1][2]
<DateTime object for '1969-12-31 00:00:00.00' at a1e1548>
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From skip at pobox.com  Tue Apr 27 12:44:26 2004
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2004 11:44:26 -0500
Subject: Is Perl *that* good? (was: How's ruby compare to it older bro
In-Reply-To: <c6kps2$cnung$1@ID-169208.news.uni-berlin.de>
References: <mailman.18.1082989111.25742.python-list@python.org>
	<lNadndrvs_FarRDdRVn-vA@powergate.ca>
	<108qcobc4m8g972@corp.supernews.com>
	<roy-AEA452.13121026042004@reader2.panix.com>
	<c6kps2$cnung$1@ID-169208.news.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <16526.36330.478942.860629@montanaro.dyndns.org>


    Greg> I suspect that, 20 years from now, there will still be a language
    Greg> called Python, and it will still be quietly and unobtrusively
    Greg> kicking all its competitors' backsides.

    Greg> Whether it will bear any resemblance to the Python of today is
    Greg> another matter...

Perhaps look back ten years to see what's happened since then.  Does Python
more-or-less look the same as it did in 1994 (or even earlier)?  I suspect
the answer is "yes".  There has been some new syntax (*args/**kwds,
listcomps, complex numbers, raw strings, packages, assert statement, loss of
access statement) and a whole lot of new library functionality, but the core
language is pretty much the same.

Skip



From gordonisnz at yahoo.co.nz  Sat Apr 10 12:04:30 2004
From: gordonisnz at yahoo.co.nz (gordonisnz)
Date: Sat, 10 Apr 2004 16:04:30 -0000
Subject: New user - Now what ?
Message-ID: <c595ue+m1lk@eGroups.com>


Hi there

Im a new user to python

(although not new to CGI (Perl) / PHP )

Ive installed Python on my home server (testing)...

Now what ?

Any tutorials I can use to utilise Python on my web-pages ?

G





From matt at themattfella.zzzz.com  Sun Apr 11 15:16:13 2004
From: matt at themattfella.zzzz.com (Matt)
Date: Sun, 11 Apr 2004 19:16:13 GMT
Subject: Python OS
In-Reply-To: <107j4eu6ffn2c68@corp.supernews.com>
References: <107j4eu6ffn2c68@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <1Qgec.287$cW3.171@news02.roc.ny>

A Evans wrote:
> I have a question concerning the development of Python Based Operating
> System. You see I have had sort of a dream to develop an Open Source
> Operating System that would revolutionize the OS market

I can't say that it is impossible.  I can say that you won't be able to 
do it alone.

Get started.  You will learn a lot of useful stuff before you are 
disillusioned.



From vineet at eswap.com  Thu Apr  8 19:52:36 2004
From: vineet at eswap.com (Vineet Jain)
Date: Thu, 8 Apr 2004 19:52:36 -0400
Subject: Problem with using singleton receip in python
Message-ID: <KPENJIMKHJPNKOLFIHBNKEGLCGAA.vineet@eswap.com>

I started off doing the following:


Class someClass(Singleton):

This worked fine but was not elegant. I'm using a large number of Singleton
classes. And Having to create a new object and discard it millions of times
added up. My functions get called many many times.

So I decided to use a GlobalMadules class which has all my global classes
and resources. I initialize this at the begining of my program.

The problem is that in the main program I have to do:

from GlobalModules import initGlobalModule
from GlobalModules.someGlobalClass import someGlobalClass

def someFunction:
	initGlobalModule()
	someGlobalClass.conn(qry)

does not work since someGlobalClass has not been initialized, so I have to
do the following:

def someFunction:
	initGlobalModule()

	from GlobalModules.someGlobalClass import someGlobalClass
someGlobalClass.conn(qry)

Somehow I like all my import at the top of the file and this does not seem
right. Is there some other way to do this?

Thanks,





From __peter__ at web.de  Tue Apr 20 08:01:52 2004
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 14:01:52 +0200
Subject: eval() and local variables
References: <mailman.786.1082448333.20120.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <c633fg$ujs$00$1@news.t-online.com>

Peter Luciak wrote:

> Hi,
> I need to do something like this:
> 
> def my():
>         a,b=1,2
>         func = "lambda x: a*x+b"
>         map(eval(func),[1,2,3])
> 
> my()
> 
> NameError: global name 'a' is not defined
> 
> Why do I have to make a,b global for this to work?

You don't: 

>>> def my():
...     a, b = 1, 2
...     return map(eval("lambda x: a*x+b", locals()), [1,2,3])
...
>>> my()
[3, 4, 5]

That makes my's local variables eval's globals. 
However, it's not clear to me why you need eval() at all:

>>> def my():
...     a, b = 1, 2
...     func = lambda x: a*x+b
...     return map(func, [1,2,3])
...
>>> my()
[3, 4, 5]

Peter



From http  Fri Apr 16 02:58:08 2004
From: http (Paul Rubin)
Date: 15 Apr 2004 23:58:08 -0700
Subject: CamelCase versus wide_names (Prothon)
References: <UHxfc.9323$dZ1.3740@fed1read04>
	<7xekqo36ia.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<107v08mopdgr9e9@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <7x1xmo76kf.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

"Michael Geary" <Mike at DeleteThis.Geary.com> writes:

> I edit my Python code with Slick_edit and Active_state Komodo. I use an IBM
> Think_pad, largely because I like its Track_point pointing device. I enjoy
> taking pictures with my Canon Power_shot camera, and I use a Pre_sonus
> Blue_tube preamp when I play harmonica. Today I drove by Office_max, and I
> saw ads for the Double_tree hotel and Lufthansa's Private_beds and Fly_net.
> 
> Is that easier to read?

Except for Private_beds, those are all basically single words that some
marketroid put capital letters in the middle of.  They'd be better off
written as single words, which is how must people write them outside
of advertising copy: Slickedit, Activestate, Thinkpad, Powershot.


From iamlevis3 at hotmail.com  Fri Apr  2 10:39:38 2004
From: iamlevis3 at hotmail.com (Chris)
Date: 2 Apr 2004 07:39:38 -0800
Subject: Using ST_ATIME to watch for files being read
Message-ID: <939f49f8.0404020739.70a7750a@posting.google.com>

I need to monitor a bunch of files to see what is being opened, read,
and closed, with no modifications being made.  This is being done
first on Windows machines, and later on Solaris.

Looking through Python Programming on Win32, I saw the ST_ATIME (page
311) which looked promising, but when I did a little test, the results
weren't good (read: sucked):

# from the i.shell.  st_atime date is inside >>><<<
>>> os.stat("c:\\devtemp\\python\\1.txt")
(33206, 0L, 2, 1, 0, 0, 3L, >>>1080919329<<<, 1080919329, 1080918583)

# now i open c:\devtemp\python\1.txt, close it, and rerun
>>> os.stat("c:\\devtemp\\python\\1.txt")
(33206, 0L, 2, 1, 0, 0, 3L, >>>1080919329<<<, 1080919329, 1080918583)

The Win32 books states that stat.ST_ATIME is "the time the file was
last accessed or zero if the filesystem doesn't support this
information".  Obviously I'm missing something, or maybe atime isn't
the best thing for me to use in this situation.  Hoping someone can
provide guidance.

TIA
-cjl


From joewong at mango.cc  Fri Apr  2 04:47:04 2004
From: joewong at mango.cc (Joe Wong)
Date: Fri, 2 Apr 2004 17:47:04 +0800
Subject: IPC share queue
Message-ID: <01c801c41897$75468260$7f00a8c0@scl01.siliconcreation.com>

Hi, the buildin Queue() class is good to use among multiple threads in the program. Is there anything similar to this across process boundary?

Regards,

-- Wong
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From franck.lepoutre at caramail.com  Thu Apr 22 13:17:57 2004
From: franck.lepoutre at caramail.com (francois lepoutre)
Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2004 19:17:57 +0200
Subject: Paris python user group?
References: <408795ee$0$25893$79c14f64@nan-newsreader-02.noos.net>
	<slrn4c8favg.f9ld.pbouige@electre.pasteur.fr>
Message-ID: <4087fd81$0$635$79c14f64@nan-newsreader-02.noos.net>

>     Il y a longtemps que j'attendais qu'une personne se propose
>     de monter une assoc autour de python, d'autant que ?a existe
>     d?ja sur d'autres continents...
>       Tous mes encouragements

Merci

>     Habitant la banlieue Nord je suis pas certain d'etre
>     disponible pour la 'taverne' mais en tout cas je trouve
>     l'id?e ? creuser :-)))

R?publique est en effet un peu excentr?. On doit
pouvoir trouver un ?quivalent sur les Halles ? deux
pas du RER.

A+




From beliavsky at aol.com  Mon Apr  5 12:10:37 2004
From: beliavsky at aol.com (beliavsky at aol.com)
Date: 5 Apr 2004 09:10:37 -0700
Subject: array of class attributes
Message-ID: <3064b51d.0404050810.62617907@posting.google.com>

Suppose I define a trivial class composed of x and y coordinates and
create a Numeric array of instances of that class.

class xy:
    def __init__(self,x=0.0,y=0.0):
        self.x = x
        self.y = y
    def __repr__(self):
        return ("%6.2f" % self.x) + (",%6.2f" % self.y)

from xy import xy
from Numeric import zeros,array,PyObject
n = 3
aa = array([xy() for i in xrange(n)], PyObject)
aa[1] = xy(5.0,25.0)
print aa
# not legal -- print aa.x

The output of this program is 
[  0.00,  0.00    5.00, 25.00    0.00,  0.00 ] . 

I would like to be able to get an array [0.00 5.00 0.00] corresponding
to the x component of array aa using the syntax aa.x, but this is not
correct Python.  Array slices of components would also be nice. I
could write a function to return such an array, but I doubt that this
would be efficient in CPU time or memory. I wonder if this capability
could be added to Numarray, the successor of Numeric. Otherwise, it
may be better to write numerical codes using parallel arrays (one for
x, one for y) instead of classes, and the benefits of classes are
lost.

Below is a program showing how this is done in Fortran 95.

module xy_mod
implicit none
type, public :: xy
   real :: x = 0.0, y = 0.0
end type xy
end module xy_mod

program xxy
use xy_mod, only: xy
implicit none
integer, parameter :: n = 3
type(xy)           :: aa(n)
character (len=*), parameter :: fmt_r="(100(2f6.2,4x))"
aa(2) = xy(5.0,25.0)
print fmt_r,aa
print fmt_r,aa%x
print fmt_r,aa(1:2)%x
end program xxy

The output is 

  0.00  0.00      5.00 25.00      0.00  0.00
  0.00  5.00      0.00
  0.00  5.00


From newsuser at itgoesclick.com  Tue Apr 20 02:02:17 2004
From: newsuser at itgoesclick.com (News User)
Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 06:02:17 GMT
Subject: Good Python Tk overview
Message-ID: <J13hc.186320$oR5.5397@pd7tw3no>

I'm comming from the background of being primarily a data processing 
programmer (Python) and I'd like to do some GUI stuff for a comercial 
project but I have quite a bit of time, nothing too complex but it has 
to work on Windows98+ OSX and Solaris so I was thinking Tkinter. I was 
wondering if there were some sites with a good overview of the whole 
Python +Tk shpeal, I've got some code examples and "Programming Python 
2nd Edition" but that's more of a learn by example, rather than an 
overview of concepts. Anyone have a good recommendation?


From mwh at python.net  Thu Apr  1 09:38:29 2004
From: mwh at python.net (Michael Hudson)
Date: Thu, 1 Apr 2004 14:38:29 GMT
Subject: From python-dev, space vs. tab controversy finally settled
References: <BrPac.5729$xw6.2105@fe1.columbus.rr.com>
	<c4ggrj$ri6$1@news.service.uci.edu>
Message-ID: <m33c7nwyor.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk>

Josiah Carlson <jcarlson at uci.edu> writes:

> Great april fools joke, but no such conversation has gone on in
> Python-Dev in the last 3 months.

You just didn't get those mails.

Cheers,
mwh

-- 
  > It might get my attention if you'd spin around in your chair,
  > spoke in tongues, and puked jets of green goblin goo.
  I can arrange for this.  ;-)            -- Barry Warsaw & Fred Drake


From andymac at bullseye.apana.org.au  Tue Apr 27 19:47:57 2004
From: andymac at bullseye.apana.org.au (Andrew MacIntyre)
Date: Wed, 28 Apr 2004 09:47:57 +1000 (EST)
Subject: What is good about Prothon?
In-Reply-To: <hzwjc.6087$Qy.2366@fed1read04>
References: <bniq80hiib0gauiltuntk9jvia2getbnj4@4ax.com>
	<nxdjc.400$Qy.363@fed1read04>
	<m0ps8092jss5mhpopkbj0a4hg0m0rlppqh@4ax.com>
	<vDvjc.5555$Qy.2995@fed1read04>
	<108t2tlo06j8vb9@corp.supernews.com> <hzwjc.6087$Qy.2366@fed1read04>
Message-ID: <20040428094446.M64229@bullseye.apana.org.au>

On Tue, 27 Apr 2004, Mark Hahn wrote:

> I knew I couldn't please them all, but I thought I'd be able to please
> one or two :)

Big mistake!  Set out only to please yourself!  After all, this is your
itch...

--
Andrew I MacIntyre                     "These thoughts are mine alone..."
E-mail: andymac at bullseye.apana.org.au  (pref) | Snail: PO Box 370
        andymac at pcug.org.au             (alt) |        Belconnen  ACT  2616
Web:    http://www.andymac.org/               |        Australia



From me at privacy.net  Fri Apr 23 08:45:18 2004
From: me at privacy.net (Duncan Booth)
Date: 23 Apr 2004 12:45:18 GMT
Subject: [Q] C-api: string|int|... construction
References: <mailman.955.1082720706.20120.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <Xns94D48BE695047duncanrcpcouk@127.0.0.1>

"Ames Andreas (MPA/DF)" <Andreas.Ames at tenovis.com> wrote in 
news:mailman.955.1082720706.20120.python-list at python.org:

> "Fredrik Lundh" <fredrik at pythonware.com> writes:
> 
>> (but note that unless you're talking about strings in the 100+
>> megabyte range, or run on relatively old hardware, chances are that
>> you're wasting your time.  modern computers can copy things really,
>> really fast).
> 
> I'm currently wrapping some low-level C-api (FWIW, it's the ODBC api)
> and what I'm concerned about is that some api functions require a
> buffer to output (i.e. copy) a string into.  I present those buffers
> to the python users as strings created by PyString_FromString and
> friends.  So that's two copies for each call.

Why are you wrapping the ODBC api instead of using one of the existing 
wrappings?

> 
> As this is a database access api looong strings are quite possible.
> 
> To make things worse there are many microsoftisms in the api (which
> isn't surprising as ODBC was specified by MS).  One such microsoftism
> is that the caller is responsible to prepare a buffer for string
> output from api functions without being able to determine the required
> length of that buffer ahead of the api call.  My strategy of
> mitigation is here to always specify a fixed length buffer which is
> relatively large (say like 1024 bytes or something) in the

Sorry, I thought you said large. 1024 bytes isn't large.

> first call.  Only if this buffer is too short (and the api function
> has returned the required length) I dynamically allocate a second
> buffer and call the api again.  Together with the final
> PyString_FromString these are three copies of a long string in the
> worst case which is sort of ugly, as far as I am concerned.
> 
Use PyString_FromStringAndSize(NULL, size) to create a new Python string 
with an empty buffer, then PyString_AsString(s) to get a pointer to the 
buffer. Pass that to your C api, then call _PyString_Resize to set the 
length correctly.

> How is the lack of a PyString_FROM_STRING (i.e. construction of a
> python string object from a C string or a char pointer plus size
> without copy) motivated?
> 
Python has to control the lifetime of the buffer. By copying into its own 
buffer it avoids issues over ownership.



From jason at tishler.net  Thu Apr 29 17:02:57 2004
From: jason at tishler.net (Jason Tishler)
Date: Thu, 29 Apr 2004 17:02:57 -0400
Subject: Python Image Library (PIL) build error on Cygwin
In-Reply-To: <tBdkc.8799$f_5.5103@lakeread01>
References: <tBdkc.8799$f_5.5103@lakeread01>
Message-ID: <20040429210257.GA1636@tishler.net>

Steve,

On Thu, Apr 29, 2004 at 04:31:54PM -0400, Steve Holden wrote:
> Does anyone know the workaround for this error, encountered when
> trying to build PIL 1.1.4 from source under cygwin (Python 2.3.3)?

Rebasing your system should fix the problem.  See the following:

    http://www.tishler.net/jason/software/rebase/rebase-2.3.README

Jason

-- 
PGP/GPG Key: http://www.tishler.net/jason/pubkey.asc or key servers
Fingerprint: 7A73 1405 7F2B E669 C19D  8784 1AFD E4CC ECF4 8EF6



From jcarlson at uci.edu  Mon Apr  5 18:33:47 2004
From: jcarlson at uci.edu (Josiah Carlson)
Date: Mon, 05 Apr 2004 15:33:47 -0700
Subject: import question
In-Reply-To: <mailman.368.1081197584.20120.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.368.1081197584.20120.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <c4sn2l$8nv$1@news.service.uci.edu>

> So, how to avoid this? How can I refer back to a module higher in the "hierarchical" path.
> Up is so easy.. just say import foo.foo2.foo3. But up, what is the correct way of doing that?
> Something to put in __init__.py, like sys.path.apppend('..')? Looks ugly to me....

PEP 328, Relative imports should take care of your issue.

In the meantime...

#in main.py
import lib

#in foo1.py and foo2.py
import sys
lib = sys.modules['lib']


Now both of them will refer to the same 'lib' that main.py imported.

  - Josiah


From eder at tttech.com  Thu Apr  1 03:30:10 2004
From: eder at tttech.com (Christian Eder)
Date: Thu, 01 Apr 2004 10:30:10 +0200
Subject: __nonzero__ of iterators
Message-ID: <c4gjup$615$1@ttt14.vie.at.tttech.ttt>

Hi,

I just discovered the following pitfall in Python 2.3.
Consider the following code :

 >>> a = {}
 >>> bool (a.keys ())
False
 >>> bool (a.iterkeys ())
True

So, an "empty" iterator evaluates to True in boolean context.
At a first glance, this is not what one would expect. This causes 
several problems, e.g. if you operate on something expected to be 
sequence, and you guard your code with "if seq :" to avoid crashing into 
an empty sequence, you still crash if you get an empty iterator, even if 
the rest of your code is able to deal with an iterator as well as with 
any other sequence type.

At a second glance, the behaviour is clear, since the iterator object 
does not know wheter it is able to provide the next element, before 
having done so.

Anyway, although I don't know how the iterator protocol is implemented 
in Python 2.3, I suppose the __nonzero__ could be changed to check 
whether a next element can be provided without actually consuming it.

I would like to read some comments on this topic as I'm sure that I'm 
not the first one wondering whether the current behaviour should be that 
way.

thanks
chris



From rawbobb at hotmail.com  Sun Apr 18 22:57:54 2004
From: rawbobb at hotmail.com (bobb)
Date: Mon, 19 Apr 2004 02:57:54 GMT
Subject: os.system help
References: <78lgc.3445$AL1.7744@news1.mts.net>
Message-ID: <SeHgc.17221$635.9354@nwrdny03.gnilink.net>


"Reid Nichol" <rnichol_rrc at yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:78lgc.3445$AL1.7744 at news1.mts.net...
> Hello,
>    I have made a program that works wonderfully on OpenBSD but it uses
> os.system to get ghostscript to convert ps to jpeg.  But, I wish this
> program to run on Windows as well.  Is there any way I can snag where
> the gs executable is on Windows?  What it is named?  And so forth.
>
I test my gs things through cygwin on my windows box.
hth

bobb





From webmaven at lvcm.com  Fri Apr  2 20:11:43 2004
From: webmaven at lvcm.com (Michael Bernstein)
Date: 2 Apr 2004 17:11:43 -0800
Subject: Python conference slogan
References: <mailman.189.1080759511.20120.python-list@python.org>	<kmjsj1-89u.ln1@snout.lairds.org>	<c4glmq$j1i$1@swifty.westend.com>	<30260531.0404010833.1b834032@posting.google.com>	<406C4DDF.5000907@zope.com>
	<mailman.259.1080890435.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<c4jj1i$f6g$1@swifty.westend.com>
Message-ID: <a5814370.0404021711.2dddbf55@posting.google.com>

Peter Maas <peter.maas at mplusr.de> wrote in message news:<c4jj1i$f6g$1 at swifty.westend.com>...
> 
> [snip] As I understand this thread there is a need for a slogan
> that is short, not too hard to understand and unforgettable
> (probably a definition of the word slogan). Python insiders
> don't need a slogan at all.

Well, this is a bit more than just a slogan, I'm envisioning this on a
t-shirt (where the last line is significantly bigger than the rest):

     Beautiful is better than ugly.
      Explicit is better than implicit.
        Simple is better than complex.
       Complex is better than complicated.
          Flat is better than nested.
        Sparse is better than dense.

        Python is BETTER.

(with thanks and/or apologies to Tim Peters)

- Michael R. Bernstein


From mogmios at mlug.missouri.edu  Thu Apr  1 06:37:00 2004
From: mogmios at mlug.missouri.edu (Michael)
Date: Thu, 01 Apr 2004 03:37:00 -0800
Subject: [OT] Top posting is a PITA
In-Reply-To: <tyfisgk12vc.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
References: <569c605ld1cj8fc1emolk08ete0s1prls1@4ax.com>	<v0r9c.38988$cx5.22021@fed1read04>	<106di86neu1qh4d@news.supernews.com>	<AHF9c.49048$cx5.33872@fed1read04>
	<c4akqh$gml$1@panix2.panix.com>	<Sz8ac.68272$cx5.62681@fed1read04>	<mailman.115.1080652873.20120.python-list@python.org>	<4069a001$0$4237$afc38c87@news.easynet.co.uk>	<4069e9d9$0$8915$636a15ce@news.free.fr>	<406a98ee$0$290$edfadb0f@dread12.news.tele.dk>	<c4e6jv$10te$1@biggoron.nerim.net>	<868yhhhv1u.fsf@igor.home.mkp.ca>	<mailman.202.1080775541.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<tyfisgk12vc.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
Message-ID: <406BFEDC.3000106@mlug.missouri.edu>


>Given the time this must leave you to read, understand, and
>thoughtfully reply to any given article ... I'll let you draw your own
>conclusions about what effect this might have on the quality of your
>contributions.
>  
>
Actually I'm a major contributor to many lists. Obviously I just watch 
most. Or decide a thread interests me at random points in whichI decide 
to follow a list more closely for a few days. Also obvious, it's not 
always the threads that have actual value that interest me.. since I've 
participated in this one. I'm just amused to see this same argument 
repeated pointlessly year after year.

>... yup, if you are really not interested in _understanding_ what is
>going on, then top-posting is for you.
>  
>
I understand by having read the thread and remembered it. If I need a 
context hint I can peek below but that is usually only needed with 
complex interwoven threads. Which isn't the majority.. which is why I 
think top-posting is good for a majority of messages but inline 
bottom-posting is good other times. Use what is best for the given message.



From __peter__ at web.de  Fri Apr 23 04:51:29 2004
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2004 10:51:29 +0200
Subject: Generic constructors and duplication of internal Python logic
References: <87ekqq41ya.fsf@pobox.com> <c5lfi6$cit$00$1@news.t-online.com>
	<87oepnzlbp.fsf@pobox.com> <c62kqc$glm$07$1@news.t-online.com>
	<87k707elth.fsf@pobox.com> <c6ai7t$o2c$03$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <c6alei$hv4$05$1@news.t-online.com>

Peter Otten wrote:

> But will I stop trying to come up with something better? no way. Here's my
> next try, and I'm likely to present something completely different again
> if you don't like it - not sure if that's a promise or a threat :-)

A threat.

def setLocals(d, selfName="self"):
    self = d.pop(selfName)
    for n, v in d.iteritems():
        setattr(self, n, v)

class Demo(object):
    def __init__(self, foo, bar, baz=2, bang=3):
        setLocals(locals())


Peter


From jtdubs at eos.ncsu.edu  Wed Apr 21 22:25:08 2004
From: jtdubs at eos.ncsu.edu (Justin Dubs)
Date: 21 Apr 2004 19:25:08 -0700
Subject: How to get the ip addresses of a nic
References: <LEfhc.146586$jf4.7761132@news000.worldonline.dk>
Message-ID: <2e262238.0404211825.2f6231b@posting.google.com>

"Bo Jacobsen" <bo at systemhouse.dk> wrote in message news:<LEfhc.146586$jf4.7761132 at news000.worldonline.dk>...
> Is there a simple way to get all the ip addresses of a nic, beyound parsing
> /etc/sysconfig/.....

Depending on your needs:

>>> socket.gethostbyname(socket.gethostname())
'192.168.0.18'

Justin Dubs


From Pieter.Claerhout at Creo.com  Sun Apr  4 12:01:37 2004
From: Pieter.Claerhout at Creo.com (Pieter Claerhout)
Date: Sun, 4 Apr 2004 18:01:37 +0200 
Subject: PIL and windows ico files
Message-ID: <490316A24CC5D411ACD700B0D078F7F0069659E2@cseexch01.cse.creoscitex.com>

Hi all,

I'm trying to use PIL to convert windows icon files to PNG. This mostly
works, but it doesn't preserve the transparancy. Any tips or tricks on how
to preserve the transparancy?

Currently, my code looks as follows:

from PIL import Image
from PIL import IcoImagePlugin
from PIL import GifImagePlugin
Image._initialized = 1
im = Image.open( 'xplane.ico' )
im.save( 'xplane.gif' )

thanks in advance,


pieter




From mikalzetTogli at interfree.it  Sat Apr  3 17:42:11 2004
From: mikalzetTogli at interfree.it (TaeKyon)
Date: Sat, 03 Apr 2004 22:42:11 GMT
Subject: recursive file editing
References: <pan.2004.04.03.20.25.28.565809@interfree.it>
	<ccFbc.4784$zf6.64753@news4.e.nsc.no>
Message-ID: <pan.2004.04.03.22.42.10.659781@interfree.it>

Il Sat, 03 Apr 2004 22:35:30 +0200, Leif B. Kristensen ha scritto:

> This is a Perl one-liner:
> 
> perl -p -i -e 's/foo/bar/gi' `find ./`

Didn't work; however I realized I could just repeatedly run variations of

sed -i s/foo/bar/g *

and then rename the files with a bash script called renna.

I'm sure python could do it but I got stuck -

for file in os.walk('mydir'):
	print file[2]

gives me the names of all files 

but how do I open each with r+ mode ? 

for thing in os.walk('mydir'):
	file(thing,mode=r+)

is invalid syntax 

-- 
Michele Alzetta



From fredrik at pythonware.com  Fri Apr 16 08:07:58 2004
From: fredrik at pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2004 14:07:58 +0200
Subject: md5.hexdigest() converting unicode string to ascii
References: <77b925de.0404151450.5c1f720a@posting.google.com>
	<c5ohp8$fqf$1@absinth.dialog.net.pl>
Message-ID: <c5oiab$i4m$1@sea.gmane.org>

Krzysztof Stachlewski wrote:

> The md5() function is defined on character strings
> not on unicode strings. An unicode string is a sequence
> of integers. Such sequence may be converted to a character
> string

message.replace("character", "byte")

(unicode characters are characters too, you know...)

</F>






From cookedm+news at physics.mcmaster.ca  Thu Apr 15 17:25:15 2004
From: cookedm+news at physics.mcmaster.ca (David M. Cooke)
Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2004 17:25:15 -0400
Subject: curses and unicode
References: <mailman.641.1082011774.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<oI2dnatHA9DvSePdRVn-uQ@speakeasy.net>
Message-ID: <qnkhdvlszlw.fsf@arbutus.physics.mcmaster.ca>

At some point, "A.M. Kuchling" <amk at amk.ca> wrote:

> On Thu, 15 Apr 2004 08:46:55 +0200, 
> 	Gandalf <gandalf at geochemsource.com> wrote:
>> But I do not know how to do this from Python. I only have the curses 
>> module and the addstr method. The addstr method does not support unicode.
>
> There's a separate set of interfaces for wide-character curses support, with
> functions such as addwstr().  Unfortunately the Python curses module doesn't
> support these functions, and they may or may not be available on your
> platform.  (For example, they don't seem to be available in the version of
> ncurses in Debian unstable.)

You want the libncursesw5 library (ncurses compiled with wide
character support). I suppose there's two libraries as
ncurses-with-wide-chars is API but not ABI compatible with
ncurses-w/o-wide-chars. But, no Python interface with wide characters.

-- 
|>|\/|<
/--------------------------------------------------------------------------\
|David M. Cooke
|cookedm(at)physics(dot)mcmaster(dot)ca


From mikalzetTogli at interfree.it  Wed Apr  7 18:45:15 2004
From: mikalzetTogli at interfree.it (TaeKyon)
Date: Wed, 07 Apr 2004 22:45:15 GMT
Subject: recursive file editing
References: <pan.2004.04.03.20.25.28.565809@interfree.it>
	<c4on0d$frb$02$1@news.t-online.com>
	<pan.2004.04.06.11.57.59.82978@interfree.it>
	<c4ua4l$mm1$05$1@news.t-online.com>
	<pan.2004.04.07.19.49.30.308033@interfree.it>
	<c51qdj$s9g$07$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <pan.2004.04.07.22.45.14.564860@interfree.it>

Il Wed, 07 Apr 2004 23:04:51 +0200, Peter Otten ha scritto:

> # using your variable names
> for folders, folder, filelist in os.walk(target_folder):
>     os.chdir(folders)
>     for line in fileinput.input(filelist, inplace=1):
>         print re.sub(original_pattern,result_pattern,line),

I thought it might not work on files contained in subdirectories
but it does. The comma solved the problem with newlines too.

If we leave out the exception checking that's 5 lines of code:

import os, sys, re, fileinput
targetf, original, result = (sys.argv[1]), (sys.argv[2]), (sys.argv[3]) 
for folders, folder, filelist in os.walk(targetf):
    os.chdir(folders)
    for line in fileinput.input(filelist,inplace=1):
        print re.sub(original,result,line),

Compact and elegant !
Tomorrow I'll go about adding the change filename stuff.

--  
Michele Alzetta



From roy at panix.com  Tue Apr 27 13:06:16 2004
From: roy at panix.com (Roy Smith)
Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2004 13:06:16 -0400
Subject: Is Perl *that* good?
References: <c6ich0$c5mee$1@ID-205437.news.uni-berlin.de>
	<iL3jc.232$Yc.2330@news4.e.nsc.no>
	<108q51j4dscn7dc@corp.supernews.com>
	<knbjc.267$id.3998@news2.e.nsc.no>
	<pan.2004.04.26.20.50.19.843510@hotmail.com>
	<87fzaqmm8t.fsf@strauser.com>
	<38ec68a6.0404262308.50029919@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.49.1083084698.25742.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <roy-C34A59.13061627042004@reader2.panix.com>

Skip Montanaro <skip at pobox.com> wrote:
> In addition, as Jamie Zawinski suggests, regular expressions
> are not always the best choice.

Regular expressions are like duct tape.  They may not be the best tool 
for everything, but they usually get the job done.


From alf at calvin.fayauffre.org  Fri Apr 16 11:23:01 2004
From: alf at calvin.fayauffre.org (Alexandre Fayolle)
Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2004 15:23:01 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: AOP use cases
References: <84fc4588.0404140106.3fa0c55@posting.google.com>
	<slrnc7q1ss.1aa.alf@largo.fayauffre.org>
	<cb035744.0404141130.170f51c4@posting.google.com>
	<slrnc7sgat.vp.alf@largo.fayauffre.org>
	<cb035744.0404160442.2f0b1661@posting.google.com>
	<0pydnSB4WYuieuLdRVn-hQ@powergate.ca>
Message-ID: <slrnc7vuil.4eo.alf@largo.fayauffre.org>

Le 16-04-2004, Peter Hansen <peter at engcorp.com> a ?crit?:
> Will Stuyvesant wrote:
>
>> What are good usage examples?
>
> I would be very interested to hear some real-world and real useful
> use cases for AOP as well.


> (The logging one actually annoys me: the only time I've ever
> wanted such logging was when debugging very complicated problems,
> and since switching to TDD I have never encountered anything
> that even remotely made me consider writing such logging wrappers
> again.)

I agree that TDD helps a lot. However, the logging module can be useful
when 
 * debugging a legacy/3rd party application or library
 * trying to understand the data flow of a 3rd party library

Another "common" use of logilab.aspect is the contract aspect which
enables to specify pre and post conditions for methods as well as class
invariants. Of course, you generally don't need contracts when using TDD,
but when working with a distributed team on complex projects, it can be
a great time saver when diagnosing weird crashes. Especially if some
partners have not yet been test infected. :-)
It is easy to disable contract checking once the project is said to 
be stable enough and goes into production, or to re-enable the checks on 
one offensive module or class if something weird happens. 

Of course, it is possible to do this without AOP, and the flexibility
and introspection abilities of Python make it very easy to achieve, on an 
ad hoc basis. It's just that using an AOP framework can save some typing, 
as well as facilitate non invasive changes to existing code. 

-- 
Alexandre Fayolle                              LOGILAB, Paris (France)
http://www.logilab.com   http://www.logilab.fr  http://www.logilab.org


From hellprout at yahoo.com  Thu Apr  1 09:07:48 2004
From: hellprout at yahoo.com (hellprout)
Date: 1 Apr 2004 06:07:48 -0800
Subject: problem with wxtextctrl
References: <5b8834c2.0403302358.2698f8f3@posting.google.com>
	<sTCac.685$JX6.468@fe07.usenetserver.com>
Message-ID: <5b8834c2.0404010607.10c72ccb@posting.google.com>

Thanks the option wxTE_RICH is the solution

thanks a lot 

and let's go python 

sylvain 

Robin Dunn <robin at alldunn.NOSPAM.com> wrote in message news:<sTCac.685$JX6.468 at fe07.usenetserver.com>...
> hellprout wrote:
> > hi , i have a problem with a wxtextctrl with multiline option.
> > i want to write a file , line after line , in my wxtextctrl .
> > But my file is too longer , and the wxtextctrl can't write the end of
> > the file , i miss 100 lines of my file ...
> > What can i do to have all data file ?
> > 
> 
> If you are on Windows then add the wxTE_RICH style when constructing the 
> wxTextCtrl.  This will switch to a native control that can handle more 
> than 64k of text.


From bror.johansson at saabtech.se  Thu Apr 29 02:57:25 2004
From: bror.johansson at saabtech.se (Bror Johansson)
Date: Thu, 29 Apr 2004 08:57:25 +0200
Subject: Arachno Python IDE
Message-ID: <c6q8tb$6q3$1@newstree.wise.edt.ericsson.se>

I can't remember having seen anything in this forum about Arachno Python
IDE. (http://www.python-ide.com/arachno_python.php)

Anyone tried it? Impressions?

/BJ




From tzot at sil-tec.gr  Fri Apr  2 10:39:35 2004
From: tzot at sil-tec.gr (Christos TZOTZIOY Georgiou)
Date: Fri, 02 Apr 2004 18:39:35 +0300
Subject: OT: FTP sync program?
References: <c493c0$a6i$1@news2.netvision.net.il>
Message-ID: <7v1r60dq2sdiieouuc53nikj0u10lgv9ej@4ax.com>

On Mon, 29 Mar 2004 14:03:13 +0200, rumours say that Miki Tebeka
<miki.tebeka at zoran.com> might have written:

>Hello All,
>
>I'm looking for a *free* program to synchronize files over ftp (like rsync).
>
>Any suggestions?

Take a look at this script which I use for linux package downloads
during the night:

http://www.sil-tec.gr/~tzot/python/sync_ftp.py

You want to edit the ftp_sites tuple (it works on a
directory-per-directory basis, so you might want to make it recursive),
and then you might need the TupleStruct.py, which you can take from
http://www.sil-tec.gr/~tzot/python/
-- 
TZOTZIOY, I speak England very best,
Ils sont fous ces Redmontains! --Harddix


From michaelmossey at yahoo.com  Mon Apr  5 18:45:40 2004
From: michaelmossey at yahoo.com (Michael Mossey)
Date: 5 Apr 2004 15:45:40 -0700
Subject: Intermittant slow startup
References: <9badaf0.0404051033.9fec2db@posting.google.com>
	<4071A86D.97CA6CAE@alcyone.com>
Message-ID: <9badaf0.0404051445.5b26b945@posting.google.com>

Erik Max Francis <max at alcyone.com> wrote in message news:<4071A86D.97CA6CAE at alcyone.com>...
> Michael Mossey wrote:
> 
> > Runnng python 2.2 on HP-UX, I get intermittant slow startup.
> > Sometimes python starts up in a small fraction of a second, and
> > sometimes takes 3-5 seconds.  This applies to any script I run, or
> > just typing 'python' at the prompt.
> > 
> > I also observed something similar on Linux.
> > 
> > Any ideas what would cause *intermittant* slow startup?
> 
> Caching?  Is it a long time between invocations that it takes a long
> time to start up?

It is quite intermittant without much of a pattern I can see.  One
thing that is definitely true is that if I start up python several
times in a row one right after the other, some can be slow and some
fast.  I just observed it start fast twice, then start slow.  I don't
remember if it ever does the other way around but I think it does.

-Mike


From mcfletch at rogers.com  Fri Apr  2 10:27:52 2004
From: mcfletch at rogers.com (Mike C. Fletcher)
Date: Fri, 02 Apr 2004 10:27:52 -0500
Subject: Creating a matrix?
In-Reply-To: <c4jve7$5vr$1@bagan.srce.hr>
References: <c4jve7$5vr$1@bagan.srce.hr>
Message-ID: <406D8678.2080307@rogers.com>

N*N matrix of lists...

    [ [0]*N for i in range( N ) ]

Seems clearer to me, anyway (and stores actual 0 values, not '0' in the 
result).  Have fun,
Mike

Ivan Voras wrote:

> Is there a nice(r) way of creating a list of uniform values? I'm 
> currently using: list('0'*N), which makes a string and then chops it 
> up into a list. I need it to create a NxN matrix:
>
> matrix = [list('0'*N) for i in range(N)]
>
> (elements need to be mutable afterwards, a shallow copy is bad)
>
> While this is short and concise, it also feels odd :)

_______________________________________
  Mike C. Fletcher
  Designer, VR Plumber, Coder
  http://members.rogers.com/mcfletch/





From sandeep182 at hotmail.com  Fri Apr 30 13:42:29 2004
From: sandeep182 at hotmail.com (Sandeep Gupta)
Date: 30 Apr 2004 10:42:29 -0700
Subject: Building python on Linux with no X
Message-ID: <d71cc7f6.0404300942.7db80801@posting.google.com>

I have tried using the source rpm and the tarball to build python on
RH9.  In both cases I get a build failure on tkinter because I don't
have X installed.

Since I only care about the core python and the devel rpms, is there
any way to only have those two rpms built from the source rpm?

Thanks

Sandeep


From peter at engcorp.com  Fri Apr  2 10:42:40 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Fri, 02 Apr 2004 10:42:40 -0500
Subject: Creating a matrix?
In-Reply-To: <c4k0ho$r73$1@swifty.westend.com>
References: <c4jve7$5vr$1@bagan.srce.hr> <c4k0ho$r73$1@swifty.westend.com>
Message-ID: <fcSdnaOLcexsFPDdRVn-jg@powergate.ca>

Peter Maas wrote:

> Ivan Voras wrote:
> 
>> Is there a nice(r) way of creating a list of uniform values? I'm 
>> currently using: list('0'*N), which makes a string and then chops it 
>> up into a list. I need it to create a NxN matrix:
>>
>  > matrix = [list('0'*N) for i in range(N)]
> 
> matrix = [['0']*N]*N

Sorry, Peter, but that's a rookie mistake:

 >>> matrix = [['0'] * 4] * 4
 >>> matrix
[['0', '0', '0', '0'], ['0', '0', '0', '0'], ['0', '0', '0', '0'], ['0', 
'0', '0
', '0']]
 >>> matrix[1][2] = '1'
 >>> matrix
[['0', '0', '1', '0'], ['0', '0', '1', '0'], ['0', '0', '1', '0'], ['0', 
'0', '1
', '0']]

Notice that each of the inner lists contains four seperate references
to the string '0', but the outer repetition simply copies the inner
list four times, resulting in four references to the same inner list!
Changing any one element affects the same entry in each of the other
three lists...

-Peter


From http  Tue Apr 20 17:48:45 2004
From: http (Paul Rubin)
Date: 20 Apr 2004 14:48:45 -0700
Subject: Difficulty Finding Python Developers
References: <65cbc3dd.0404140641.3501fde8@posting.google.com>
	<roy-A69D29.18562119042004@reader2.panix.com>
	<mailman.799.1082470919.20120.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <7xekqigw1u.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

Paul Morrow <pm_mon at yahoo.com> writes:
> Yes, that's our ad.  I guess hr wasn't as careful as they should've
> been when they authored it (there's also a mispelled word)... :-(
> 
> You probably already realized this, but that should've been $45 to $55
> per hour.

I don't remember if anyone's mentioned this in the thread yet, but you
might also list the job on the Python jobs board:

  http://python.org/Jobs.html


From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Fri Apr  2 01:15:03 2004
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 2 Apr 2004 01:15:03 -0500
Subject: From python-dev, space vs. tab controversy finally settled
References: <BrPac.5729$xw6.2105@fe1.columbus.rr.com>
	<c4gkpi$4fg$1@ork.noris.net>
	<ag6bc.4177$bQ3.1044@fe2.columbus.rr.com>
Message-ID: <c4j0d7$6at$1@panix2.panix.com>

In article <ag6bc.4177$bQ3.1044 at fe2.columbus.rr.com>,
Carl Banks  <imbosol at aerojockey.invalid> wrote:
>Wolfram Kraus wrote:
>> Carl Banks wrote:
>>>
>>> So, you should start using Unicode character 0009 to indent right
>>> away.  Python 2.4 will deprecate all indentation not using the new
>>> indent character, and Python 3.0 will not support any other
>>> indentation.
>> 
>> Nah, this sucks! This will be the death of Python! I'm switching to 
>> Whitespace: http://compsoc.dur.ac.uk/whitespace/
>
>You people are missing it.  Look at what the new indent character is.
>(It's always funnier when you have to explain it.)

You didn't check Wolfram's URL, did you?
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

"usenet imitates usenet"  --Darkhawk


From kkto at csis.hku.hk  Mon Apr 26 00:08:05 2004
From: kkto at csis.hku.hk (Isaac To)
Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2004 12:08:05 +0800
Subject: Trouble Understanding O'Reilly Example
References: <108p21f7asq1cc8@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <7iad0z4c0q.fsf@enark.csis.hku.hk>

>>>>> "slyraymond" == slyraymond  <sly_raymond at charter.net> writes:

    slyraymond> On page 214 of _Learning Python_, the following function is
    slyraymond> described as one that will return the smallest item in a
    slyraymond> group of arguments:

    slyraymond> def min1(*args): res = args[0] for arg in args[1:]: if arg <
    slyraymond> args: res = arg return res

Should be, if arg < res.

Regards,
Isaac.


From jluc_yvr at yahoo.com  Fri Apr  2 14:01:00 2004
From: jluc_yvr at yahoo.com (Jean-Luc)
Date: 2 Apr 2004 11:01:00 -0800
Subject: Troubleshooting pickle errors
Message-ID: <6eb6da99.0404021101.1f755f19@posting.google.com>

Hi

I am grafing pickling functionality on a big dictionary of object
instances and I am having numerous problems.  I think understand the
notion of what can/can't be pickled and I know how to use __getstate__
/ __setstate__ to weed out offending references.  But I am finding it
very hard to identify _which_ reference is causing exceptions like:

File "C:\UserApps\Python23\Lib\copy_reg.py", line 69, in _reduce_ex
raise TypeError, "can't pickle %s objects" % base.__name__
TypeError: can't pickle function objects

PrettyPrinting the exception gets me:

{'args': ("can't pickle function objects",)}.

The exception includes no references to the guilty party!  How do I
know _which_ object caused the issue?  Though my current objects (i.e.
the stuff I am trying to pickle) are new, its instances hold
references to a lot of instances of existing utility classes of mine
that are database aware.  I would not like to modify those utility
classes any more than I _have_ to since I use them elsewhere.  I have
already stripped out database Connection references, as well as File
references.  Those were obvious.

How do I identify the remaining issues?  If I work with a smaller data
set, I often miss problems entirely, so reducing the pickling scope is
not an easy option to implement.  The best I have managed so far is to
open the pickle file and look near the end, where the exception
presumably occurred.  But I would expect there to be a more obvious
way to troubleshoot this stuff.

Cheers

JLuc


From sean_berry at cox.net  Fri Apr 23 01:31:50 2004
From: sean_berry at cox.net (Sean Berry)
Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2004 22:31:50 -0700
Subject: Python CGI: how to retrieve variables passed by URL
Message-ID: <hU1ic.86730$U83.37750@fed1read03>

If I go to my cgi python script with
localhost/cgi-bin/script-name.cgi?variable=value

How do I gather this value?

Thanks in advance.




From lbates at swamisoft.com  Fri Apr  9 10:50:58 2004
From: lbates at swamisoft.com (Larry Bates)
Date: Fri, 9 Apr 2004 09:50:58 -0500
Subject: program distribution
References: <4075f5bb_1@news.iprimus.com.au>
Message-ID: <RoqdnaFM0KTPJevdRVn-gQ@comcast.com>

Nathan,

You didn't mention your platform.  So
I'm going to give you instructions for
Windows.

You will need to additional programs.

1) py2exe - This will run your program
through a process that gathers up all you
imported modules and creates a .EXE file
and supporting .pyd and .dll files.  This
can be distributed to computers that do
NOT have Python installed.

http://starship.python.net/crew/theller/py2exe/

2) Some installer.  I personally like
Inno.  You provide Inno with a list of
files that should be installed (both
program and data files) and it creates
one big "setup.exe" file that can be
distributed.

http://www.jrsoftware.org/isinfo.php

If your platform is Linux take a look at
McMillan Installer.  This page seems to
be down at this time:

http://www.mcmillan-inc.com/install1.html


Regards,
Larry Bates
Syscon, Inc.

"mr_vocab" <amireallyfat at yahoo.com.au> wrote in message
news:4075f5bb_1 at news.iprimus.com.au...
> Hi im new to  python but have made a few applications how can i save them
> and get the to run sort of like an application
>
> thanks
>
> Nathan
>
>




From rob02omni at vodafone.it  Tue Apr 20 12:16:30 2004
From: rob02omni at vodafone.it (Roberto)
Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 18:16:30 +0200
Subject: Getting output from embedded python program
References: <2aa196bb.0404190554.74631058@posting.google.com>
	<4084B179.6020807@magma-da.com>
Message-ID: <c63i77$kfq$1@balena.cs.interbusiness.it>

With more try i can run "PyRun_SimpleFile" !

Anyway cant do the same with "PyRun_File" because it will crash my app :

           PyRun_File(fpIn,"temp.py",Py_file_input,evalModule ,evalDict);

           evalModule = PyImport_AddModule( (char*)"__main__" );
           evalDict = PyModule_GetDict( evalModule );
           evalVal = PyDict_GetItemString( evalDict, "result" );

This will crash the app :(
Bye
-- 
Roberto

"Rick L. Ratzel" <rick.ratzel at magma-da.com> ha scritto nel messaggio
news:4084B179.6020807 at magma-da.com...
> Kim wrote:
> > Hi everyone,
> > I'm writing a embeded python program, and I want to evaluate some
> > expression by calling function:
> >
> > PyRun_SimpleString("print 'hello'")
> >
> > I don't want to output it to stdout but putting it into string somehow
> > sothat I can process it.
> >
>
>     Here is a way to get the result of a Python expression eval from C
> (derived from example at
> http://elmer.sourceforge.net/PyCon04/elmer_pycon04.html ) ...obviously,
> if you evaluate a print statement, you will still get output on stdout
> though:
>
> ...
> PyObject* evalModule;
> PyObject* evalDict;
> PyObject* evalVal;
> char* retString;
>
> PyRun_SimpleString( "result = 'foo' + 'bar'" )
>
> evalModule = PyImport_AddModule( (char*)"__main__" );
> evalDict = PyModule_GetDict( evalModule );
> evalVal = PyDict_GetItemString( evalDict, "result" );
>
> if( evalVal == NULL ) {
>      PyErr_Print();
>      exit( 1 );
>
> } else {
>      /*
>       * PyString_AsString returns char* repr of PyObject, which should
>       * not be modified in any way...this should probably be copied for
>       * safety
>       */
>      retString = PyString_AsString( evalVal );
> }
> ...
>
>     In this case, you need to know that the expression will evaluate to
> a string result in order to call PyString_AsString().  If you don't know
> this, you will have to check the type of the PyObject first.
>
>
>




From dave at graniteweb.com  Sun Apr 25 02:05:58 2004
From: dave at graniteweb.com (David Rock)
Date: Sun, 25 Apr 2004 01:05:58 -0500
Subject: compiling Python 2.3.3 Solaris 9 x86 question 
In-Reply-To: <7Axec.931$_B6.234@reader1.news.jippii.net>
References: <7Axec.931$_B6.234@reader1.news.jippii.net>
Message-ID: <DeGdnffYxs_byBbdRVn-sA@comcast.com>

Stefan wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> I am trying to build Python 2.3.3 on Solaris 9 x86. Everything goes fine
> except that I have some issues with curses module ...

Is compiling necessary? I have found the packages for python 2.3.3 and 
ncurses on www.sunfreeware.com for Solaris 9 to work very well. The 
Solaris 8 packages were horribly wrecked for curses-based apps, but the 
Solaris 9 ones seem to work.

-- 
David


From jepler at unpythonic.net  Fri Apr 23 13:53:13 2004
From: jepler at unpythonic.net (Jeff Epler)
Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2004 12:53:13 -0500
Subject: CamelCase versus wide_names (Prothon)
In-Reply-To: <nkcic.28282$dZ1.27269@fed1read04>
References: <UHxfc.9323$dZ1.3740@fed1read04>
	<6e0680ac.0404211252.7f7b4358@posting.google.com>
	<4086DFA7.9736E7D3@alcyone.com>
	<roy-15454C.18080121042004@reader2.panix.com>
	<PdEhc.19536$dZ1.11964@fed1read04>
	<slrnc8hluh.s60.apardon@trout.vub.ac.be>
	<nkcic.28282$dZ1.27269@fed1read04>
Message-ID: <20040423175313.GC2150@unpythonic.net>

Do you have a use picked out for '@', '!' or '?'?  A new use for ``?
I think those are all either meaningless in Python, or tagged for
eventual deprecation in Python 3.0 in the case of ``.

Python already allows comments and strings to be in unicode or other
encodings, and may allow unicode names in the future.  Unicode defines a
lot of mathematical symbols.  Perhaps both languages should reserve the
special __uNNNN__ and __ruNNNN__ (where NNNN is the unicode character
value in hex), with __u0043__ being an alias for __add__ (etc) during a
transitional period.  I think that __u2261__ will be particularly useful
to those who wanted to express "is substitutable for", without breaking
the meaning of "==" or "is" operators to do it. (if you recall that
recent thread)

One possible problem with this approach is that you have to know at
parse time whether an operator is a unary prefix operator (like
__u222b__) or a binary operator (like __u2261__).  On the other hand,
this is already solved for + and -, so it must be OK.

Is it possible for Prothon to innovate here?

Unfortunately I'll have little internet access for the next two weeks,
but it'll be interesting to see how prothon evolves over this time.

Jeff



From james at ractive.ch  Thu Apr 15 13:06:12 2004
From: james at ractive.ch (Jean-Pierre Bergamin)
Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2004 19:06:12 +0200
Subject: Socket error: 10053 software caused connection abort
References: <c5kc37$kco$1@newshispeed.ch>
Message-ID: <c5mfe3$1bm$1@newshispeed.ch>

Jean-Pierre Bergamin wrote:

> I'd be glad if someone could test theses scripts to see if this error
> also occurs on other coputers and systems.
>
> Or is there anything wrong with the code?

Could anyone reproduce this error?


Regards

James




From skip at pobox.com  Wed Apr  7 12:37:03 2004
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2004 11:37:03 -0500
Subject: getting from code object to class/function
Message-ID: <16500.11823.670207.707497@montanaro.dyndns.org>

The trace module allows you to print all functions which were called at
least once during a program's run.  I just checked in a change to also track
caller/callee relationships and display then at program exit.

Both types of output suffer from the fact that all the trace function gets
is the current frame.  From there it can find the code object and then the
source filename and function name.  There is, however, no direct way back
from the code object to (for example) the class and method which "own" that
object.  I didn't see anything obvious in the inspect module that would
allow me to worm around this problem.

A not perfect solution would seem to be: if the first element of the code's
co_varnames attribute is "self" and the object in question is an instance,
work back to the class and grab the class name (which is only available
indirectly via str()), then use it to embellish the function name found in
the code object.

I'm open to other suggestions.

Thx,

Skip



From piet at cs.uu.nl  Wed Apr  7 05:10:27 2004
From: piet at cs.uu.nl (Piet van Oostrum)
Date: 07 Apr 2004 11:10:27 +0200
Subject: OFF-TOPIC:: Why Lisp is not my favorite programming language
References: <165b3efa.0403030443.4d591f04@posting.google.com>
	<40460dd5$0$5916$7a628cd7@news.club-internet.fr>
	<d771b842.0403040735.3b5200ae@posting.google.com>
	<e87fc4b0.0403221114.254b7ee5@posting.google.com>
	<d771b842.0404061258.655b8e56@posting.google.com>
	<6in670lrldbjkuujle68a526293j57a7mn@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <wzu0zwkvb0.fsf@ordesa.cs.uu.nl>

>>>>> Stephen Horne <steve at ninereeds.fsnet.co.uk> (SH) wrote:

SH> It wouldn't surprise me. LISP is normally interpreted - maybe always,
SH> though I'm not certain of that. 

This is one of the misconceptions about Lisp. Many Lisp systems do have an
interpreter on board, for interactive use but also most do have
compilation. There are some that don't even have an interpreter, nand even
for interactive use compile things without the user being aware of it. The
speed of compiled Lisp programs can approximate the speed of equivalent C
programs.
-- 
Piet van Oostrum <piet at cs.uu.nl>
URL: http://www.cs.uu.nl/~piet [PGP]
Private email: P.van.Oostrum at hccnet.nl


From jzgoda at gazeta.usun.pl  Sat Apr 10 16:38:04 2004
From: jzgoda at gazeta.usun.pl (Jarek Zgoda)
Date: Sat, 10 Apr 2004 20:38:04 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: why is python better than eg. smalltalk?? no one has any solid
	arguments! you should all go to church with all that religious talk!
References: <mailman.440.1081414295.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<c59l5o$2faa0i$1@ID-180326.news.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <c59lvb$mtm$1@nemesis.news.tpi.pl>

Jon Perez <jbperez808 at wahoo.com> pisze:

> For the past 10 years, I have been in search for a 'holy grail' of a text 
> editor and a language.  Something I could absolutely devote myself to using.  
> After the dozens and dozens I've tried and looked at, I can now say to 
> myself that I have found what I've been looking for with SciTE and Python.

I didn't found *the editor* yet (although Eric3 looks very promising),
but my opinion on Python is very similar.

-- 
Jarek Zgoda
http://jpa.berlios.de/


From fredrik at pythonware.com  Wed Apr 21 16:22:14 2004
From: fredrik at pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2004 22:22:14 +0200
Subject: Dollar sign ($) on foriegn keyboards? (prothon)
References: <mk3hc.13895$dZ1.10823@fed1read04><mailman.793.1082468190.20120.python-list@python.org><IEghc.17557$dZ1.1035@fed1read04><mailman.837.1082562788.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<vrAhc.19132$dZ1.2086@fed1read04>
Message-ID: <c66l4u$c6n$1@sea.gmane.org>

Mark Hahn wrote:

> In my defense, who would have thought that asking if international keyboards
> had trouble typing a dollar sign would be a troll question?

I'd say it's more of a bike shed question, not a troll.

(if you don't know what I mean, google for "bike shed effect").

</F>







From jwsacksteder at ramprecision.com  Mon Apr 26 10:18:18 2004
From: jwsacksteder at ramprecision.com (jwsacksteder at ramprecision.com)
Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2004 10:18:18 -0400
Subject: Is Perl *that* good? (was: How's ruby compare to it older bro
	ther python)
Message-ID: <71650A6F73F1D411BE8000805F65E3CB3B3A7D@SRV-03>

>>getting dynamic HTML pages up and running quickly. Perl is great for
>>its string-handling abilities. (On my Web pages, I actually call a Perl
>>script from PHP precisely for this reason.)

>I hear this more often than I understand it.  Perl certainly
>does support many string-oriented operations.  What's a speci-
>fic example, though, of an action you feel more comfortable 
>coding in external Perl?  I suspect there's something I need
>to learn about PHP's deficiencies, or Perl's power.

I suspect the perl is the first place many people get exposed
to regexes and when they understand the utility of that, some 
of the glow rubs off on perl. Someone actually said to me 
once "I program in perl because I can't live without regex."
Now when someone says "perl text-processing", I hear "regex".
(If I was motivated, I would include the above substitution in
 regex notation here...)

The php/mysql crowd gives me this feeling as well, but that's
a discussion for another day and another list.




From skip at pobox.com  Tue Apr 27 12:51:29 2004
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2004 11:51:29 -0500
Subject: Is Perl *that* good?
In-Reply-To: <38ec68a6.0404262308.50029919@posting.google.com>
References: <c6ich0$c5mee$1@ID-205437.news.uni-berlin.de>
	<iL3jc.232$Yc.2330@news4.e.nsc.no>
	<108q51j4dscn7dc@corp.supernews.com>
	<knbjc.267$id.3998@news2.e.nsc.no>
	<pan.2004.04.26.20.50.19.843510@hotmail.com>
	<87fzaqmm8t.fsf@strauser.com>
	<38ec68a6.0404262308.50029919@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <16526.36753.13192.577823@montanaro.dyndns.org>


    Asun> Regex is much more 'immediate' in Perl.  

Sure, it's syntactically bound into the language.  There will always be an
extra constant overhead to enable regular expressions in Python.  That
doesn't make them any less powerful than the Perl variety.  It's simply a
pair of different design decisions Guido and Larry made (along with a few
others).

    Asun> Probably the only time I would reach for Perl rather than for
    Asun> python is when I knew a task involved a lot of regex (and no
    Asun> object orientation).

Why?  I write non-object-oriented Python code all the time.  To make the
Python/Perl switch you'd still have to shift your mental gears to deal with
a different syntax, different way of getting at and using functionality that
isn't builtin, etc.  Even with lots of regex fiddling to do, I think the
extra overhead of using regexes in Python would be swamped by the other
differences.  In addition, as Jamie Zawinski suggests, regular expressions
are not always the best choice.

Skip



From hungjunglu at yahoo.com  Tue Apr  6 14:51:03 2004
From: hungjunglu at yahoo.com (Hung Jung Lu)
Date: 6 Apr 2004 11:51:03 -0700
Subject: GUI Frameworks in Python?
References: <mailman.102.1080629227.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<930ba99a.0404030246.786455f5@posting.google.com>
	<8ef9bea6.0404041009.26ae2683@posting.google.com>
	<930ba99a.0404060104.fdf2605@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <8ef9bea6.0404061051.1a167b37@posting.google.com>

sridharinfinity at yahoo.com (Sridhar R) wrote in message news:<930ba99a.0404060104.fdf2605 at posting.google.com>...
>   Wrong.  GTK apps do look with native look and feel.  For Windows,
> look at the screenshots from the wimp project

First of all, thanks for all the pointers. But from GTK-Wimp I read:

News:
GTK-Wimp 0.5.4 released (Thursday, 11 March 2004)
GTK-Wimp 0.5.3 released (Sunday, 25 January 2004)
GTK-Wimp 0.5.2 released (Wednesday, 19 November 2003)

>   But, those people wouldn't have used PyGTK (or GTK) before.   Don't
> get a mind-shift just bcoz of some famous personality has said it. 
> Usually I will try out the possiblities and then choose from the
> domain.

If you have time, sure. Being guinea pig is a great way to learn. :) I
did that with Java. After that, I swore I would never be another
guinea pig again. :) I've done my share.

Jokes aside. The easiest way of being taller than giants is to stand
on their shoulders. The problem nowadays is there are all too many
things to learn in life, and life unfortunately is short. Who you
spend time talking to, and whose opinion you rely on, makes a big
difference. Nowadays I realize I must relying on words of expert
friends that have been there, done that. It's much more effective.
Anyway, these are lessons that people learn, sooner or later.

See also:

http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&selm=axa6b.64498%240u4.46413%40news1.central.cox.net

"I have to concur with Cameron on the immaturity of Gtk under
win32..."
"Unless running on win32 is of secondary importance, I don't think Gtk
would
is a good choice until some of the Gtk/win32 bugs and other issues are
worked out..."

Your opinion, and opinions like the above, are the types of comments
that I take into account. So, I have nothing against GTK in Windows
per se, but it just seems to need a bit more time. Python did not
start this good either.

regards,

Hung Jung


From Mike at DeleteThis.Geary.com  Sun Apr 11 03:43:08 2004
From: Mike at DeleteThis.Geary.com (Michael Geary)
Date: Sun, 11 Apr 2004 00:43:08 -0700
Subject: Python is the best and most popular general purpose scripting
	language; the universal scripting language
References: <a5415304.0404101350.271088f2@posting.google.com>
	<roy-22B4DA.18282210042004@reader1.panix.com>
	<107gttk8j6or775@news.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <107htodblk16s83@corp.supernews.com>

John Roth wrote:
> The distinction isn't "scripting" versus "programming"
> language, it's "scripting" versus something that doesn't
> really have a name. Scripts are executed from the top
> down once. In other languages (such as Java and C++)
> there's a designated starting point (main()) that the
> compiler locates.
>
> Python is a scripting language because each module
> is executed from the top down as its loaded.

By that definition, these would be scripting languages:

Algol 60
Algol 68
APL
Basic (traditional)
BCPL
Focal
Forth
Fortran
Intel 8086 assembly in a "com" format executable
Lisp
Pascal
PostScript
Simula
Snobol
Turing (language)
Turing (machine)

I may have one or two of those wrong, but you get the idea... ;-)

Wikipedia has a pretty good article on scripting languages:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scripting_language

Even as informative as the article is, in the end it nearly gives up on the
idea of distinguishing between scripting and other languages: "However, the
boundary between scripting languages and regular programming languages tends
to be vague, and is blurring ever more with the emergence of new languages
and integrations in this fast-changing area."

-Mike




From paul at prescod.net  Tue Apr 27 03:15:47 2004
From: paul at prescod.net (Paul Prescod)
Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2004 00:15:47 -0700
Subject: Is Perl *that* good?
In-Reply-To: <i5m0m1-tbo.ln1@home.rogerbinns.com>
References: <mailman.18.1082989111.25742.python-list@python.org>	<lNadndrvs_FarRDdRVn-vA@powergate.ca>	<108qcobc4m8g972@corp.supernews.com>	<roy-AEA452.13121026042004@reader2.panix.com>
	<i5m0m1-tbo.ln1@home.rogerbinns.com>
Message-ID: <408E08A3.6070609@prescod.net>

Roger Binns wrote:
> 
> Tcl also had a shot at stardom.  I added it to the Mosaic browser where
> it was used in a similar capacity to JavaScript today.  Details are in
> the proceedings of the 2nd WWW conference.  (The audience were in awe
> of a demo that printed an entire book based on following the rel links
> in web page headers, got everything in the right order, loaded the pages
> and printed).

Python had a shot too:

http://ksi.cpsc.ucalgary.ca/archives/WWW-TALK/www-talk-1994q3/1066.html

And I think Python has a claim to the first Web robot:

http://www.webhistory.org/www.lists/www-talk.1993q1/0060.html

> To solve the same problems, Netscape invented yet another language and
> put "marketing flavour of the day" in front, blessing us with Javascript.
> I really wish Tcl had won that one.

I wish Python had won. ;)

  Paul





From ville at spammers.com  Sat Apr  3 03:26:44 2004
From: ville at spammers.com (Ville Vainio)
Date: 03 Apr 2004 11:26:44 +0300
Subject: Indent testers needed (Prothon)
References: <Unqbc.131025$cx5.57643@fed1read04>
	<noOdnTqctOE3pPPdRVn-tw@powergate.ca>
	<Oerbc.133153$cx5.81711@fed1read04>
Message-ID: <du7r7v5lb5n.fsf@lehtori.cc.tut.fi>

>>>>> "Mark" == Mark Hahn <mark at prothon.org> writes:

    Mark> I first said tabs-only since I'm a tabs lover and the
    Mark> tabs-haters came out and crucified me. Because of that and
    Mark> the fact that I found out that Guido wants to pull tabs from
    Mark> Python, I said we were going to spaces-only and then the
    Mark> space-haters did the same. I don't think Guido has a chance
    Mark> in hell of ever pulling tab support from Python.

Just allow both spaces and tabs, but not in the same block. If someone
with a crippled editor (e.g. non-programmers which might default to
notepad, or someone not on his own computer) tries to create a new
function in a spaces-only file, he's going to be so pissed because he
has to hit spacebar 4 times instead of one tab to make the code look
the same.

-- 
Ville Vainio   http://tinyurl.com/2prnb


From alloydflanagan at comcast.net  Fri Apr 30 10:14:54 2004
From: alloydflanagan at comcast.net (A. Lloyd Flanagan)
Date: 30 Apr 2004 07:14:54 -0700
Subject: Possible problem with popen2 module
Message-ID: <e838aa6e.0404300614.57c13c8a@posting.google.com>

OK, I've got a weird one I haven't been able to figure out yet. 
Admittedly I haven't had time to dig into the library source, but this
behavior certainly doesn't seem right.  Here's a test case:

"""Test program to demonstrate problem with popen2 module."""
import popen2

def main (argv):
    mycmd = 'python2.3 -c "for i in range(100000):\n   print i"'
    p = popen2.Popen3(mycmd)
    print 'result code is %d' % p.wait()
    for line in p.fromchild.xreadlines():
        print line,

if __name__ == '__main__':
    import sys
    main(sys.argv)

As you can see I'm using the popen2.Popen3 class to run a process
which prints a lot of output.

Here's the problem: for small values of the constant in the range()
call, e.g. 1000, this works as expected.  For larger values, e.g.
100,000, the program never returns from the p.wait() call after the
child process completes.  It appears tbe waiting forever on the
waitpid() call.

This is occuring on a Sun server:
> uname -a
SunOS fred 5.8 Generic_108528-29 sun4u sparc SUNW,Sun-Fire-880

and I've seen the exact same behavior under HP-UX:
> uname -a
HP-UX hpserver B.11.11 U 9000/800 2243344530 unlimited-user license

I don't see this behavior with calling os.popen().  I DO see it with
the current implementation of popen5() from the PEP.

Does anyone know why this is occurring?  Is this a bona-fide bug?  Or
am I just being stupid somehow?
Thanks!

A. Lloyd Flanagan
Contract Programmer
Richmond, VA


From Mike at DeleteThis.Geary.com  Mon Apr  5 13:18:48 2004
From: Mike at DeleteThis.Geary.com (Michael Geary)
Date: Mon, 5 Apr 2004 10:18:48 -0700
Subject: recursive file editing
References: <pan.2004.04.03.20.25.28.565809@interfree.it>
	<ccFbc.4784$zf6.64753@news4.e.nsc.no>
	<pan.2004.04.03.22.42.10.659781@interfree.it>
	<c4no62$6so$1@news.service.uci.edu>
	<pan.2004.04.05.16.40.22.824776@interfree.it>
Message-ID: <10735882vsuk1ca@corp.supernews.com>

> for filetuple in os.walk('foo'):
> ...     for filename in filetuple[2]:
> ...         fileopen = file(filename, 'r+')
>             fileopen.write("This works !")
>             fileopen.close()
>
> which seems a bit of a clumsy way to do it.

You have the right idea, although this would be a bit cleaner:

for root, dirs, files in os.walk( 'foo' ):
    for name in files:
        etc...

You might want to take a look at the documentation for os.walk. It explains
all this and has a couple of good code samples.

> And besides it only works if I run python from directory foo,
> otherwise it tells me "no such file or directory".

You mean if you run Python from the *parent* directory of foo, right?

'foo' is a relative path, not an absolute one, so it gets appended to the
current directory.

-Mike




From imbosol at aerojockey.invalid  Wed Apr 28 23:20:16 2004
From: imbosol at aerojockey.invalid (Carl Banks)
Date: Thu, 29 Apr 2004 03:20:16 GMT
Subject: Is Perl *that* good?
References: <c6ich0$c5mee$1@ID-205437.news.uni-berlin.de>
	<iL3jc.232$Yc.2330@news4.e.nsc.no>
	<108q51j4dscn7dc@corp.supernews.com>
	<knbjc.267$id.3998@news2.e.nsc.no>
	<pan.2004.04.26.20.50.19.843510@hotmail.com>
	<87fzaqmm8t.fsf@strauser.com>
	<38ec68a6.0404262308.50029919@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.49.1083084698.25742.python-list@python.org>
	<cbfb92ae.0404272203.2ff42c98@posting.google.com>
	<c6nks0$l3i$02$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <Qv_jc.1385$Gq1.831@fe2.columbus.rr.com>

Peter Otten wrote:
> Wallclimber wrote:
> 
>> I have to agree with the original poster. My *only* complaint about
>> Python are not regex search, but regex search and replace operations.
>> Perl   : s =~ s/(\w+)\s*=\s*(\d+)/$2 <= $1/g;
>> Python : regex.sub(s, "(\w+)\s*=\s*)\d+)", (lambda m: m.group(2)+" <=
>> "+m.group(1)))
>> 
>> I didn't try this out so there might be some syntax problems in there,
>> but you get the idea. Is there a 'nicer' way to do this in python?
> 
> Your example suggests that the Python equivalent for $1 is \1:
> 
>>>> re.sub(r"(\w+)\s*=\s*(\d+)", r"\2 <= \1", "a=1 b = 3 c = d")
> '1 <= a 3 <= b c = d'

You can do that?  LSNED.


-- 
CARL BANKS                      http://www.aerojockey.com/software
"If you believe in yourself, drink your school, stay on drugs, and
don't do milk, you can get work." 
          -- Parody of Mr. T from a Robert Smigel Cartoon


From mwh at python.net  Sun Apr 11 12:12:22 2004
From: mwh at python.net (Michael Hudson)
Date: Sun, 11 Apr 2004 16:12:22 GMT
Subject: painful debugging: techniques?
References: <WqKcc.5327$BF2.680616@news20.bellglobal.com>
	<a3fck1-s7k.ln1@home.rogerbinns.com>
	<8ef9bea6.0404070621.342c3b5d@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.420.1081349208.20120.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <m33c7ah4t5.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk>

Richie Hindle <richie at entrian.com> writes:

> [Hung Jung]
> > The question now is: how can we stop this from happening to other people?
> > [...] So far, I think Peter Otten's approach (search through the source
> > code) may be the most practical way.
> 
> Make weakref.ref() check that its second argument is a callable?
> 
> (I know, "patches welcome" 8-)

I *believe* that in current CVS python, a None second argument to
weakref.ref() is treated as if there was no argument (i.e. how the OP
expected).

Someone who's not behind a modem and several layers of terminal
emulation (none of which agree on the encoding being used) should
check :-)

Cheers,
mwh

-- 
34. The string is a stark data structure and everywhere it is
    passed there is much duplication of process.  It is a perfect
    vehicle for hiding information.
  -- Alan Perlis, http://www.cs.yale.edu/homes/perlis-alan/quotes.html


From has.temp2 at virgin.net  Thu Apr 29 06:59:32 2004
From: has.temp2 at virgin.net (has)
Date: 29 Apr 2004 03:59:32 -0700
Subject: Is classless worth consideration
References: <g9k090lhocd1nbd7g230br6ooub113hjt6@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <69cbbef2.0404290259.fd8d71c@posting.google.com>

David MacQuigg <dmq at gain.com> wrote in message news:<g9k090lhocd1nbd7g230br6ooub113hjt6 at 4ax.com>...

> >> Example of Simplified Classes ( Prototypes )
> >> ============================================
> >
> >[SNIP]
> >
> >Class-based OOP by any other name. But then, I've pointed this out
> >already. See Emperor, clothes; lack of.
> >
> >Here; while I don't claim them to be paragons of programming, I
> >suggest taking a look at my old AppleScript libraries [...] Might lend
> >some useful perspective.
> 
> The problem we Python programmers are having is understanding the
> fundamental advantage of eliminating classes and working only with
> instances.

Well, as far as Python itself is concerned, it'd go a long way in
eliminating the hideously baroque and increasingly brittle OO model it
currently has. But that's by-the-by; the real problem isn't with
Python itself but in the "we Python programmers".

And here one might as well argue the benefits of untyped variables
with a C/C++/Java-head, or the advantages of a strong functional type
inference system with a Perl/Python user. If they are curious, open to
new ideas, keen to explore, challenge and change their existing ones,
they will seek out and find these questions and answers themselves. If
they aren't, then no amount of outside argument is ever going to shake
them from their current position; if anything, it'll only be used to
strengthen those defences against change.

So I'm sorry, but the fact you've already mastered Python means that -
short of investigating the alternatives out of your own desire for
learning, or being forced into it by unavoidable circumstance - of
course you can't see what the advantages might be. Having familiarised
and mastered its complexities, where's the advantage in throwing away
those skills and knowledge for something unfamiliar? Just as a big cat
born and raised on a safari park can have no notion of what it's like
to run the Serengeti. You're so comfortable where you are, why
would/should you want/need to change?


> The theoretical discussions put me to sleep.  I can't see
> the point of the examples above.  What we need is a simple use case.

Ah, you mean a clever party trick to dazzle and astound and thereby
prove its superiority, yes? Sorry, no will do. I mean, sure, yes,
prototype OO lets you do some very cool and clever things. But then,
so does something like metaclass programming - and you won't ever find
me claiming this means MCP is a good thing.

I'm sorry that my trivial proto-OO stack object example is too
mundane, but, you know, that's kinda like the _whole_point_. Boring is
GOOD. Deadly dull is GREAT. Too often, programmers and complexity are
like crack addicts and cocaine - they just can't help themselves, I
guess.

So, let's look at it again:

begin procedure(initialstate)
    begin object
        _state = initialstate

        begin method(params)
            ...
        end method
    end object
end procedure

and compare to:


begin class
    specialmethod  init(initialstate)
        newinstance._state = initialstate
   end specialmethod

    begin method(params)
        ...
    end method
end class


In the first, I call the procedure and it executes the statement[s]
contained within and returns the result.

In the second, I call the behind-the-scenes class constructor, which
creates a new instance, calls the special init() method to initialise
the instance's state, and returns it.

Now, in both examples the source code itself is approximately the same
length and density:

1. Which of these was easier for me to explain?

2. Which of these was less "magical"? (And what has your Uncle Guido
taught you about "Explicit [being] better than Implicit" again?)

3. Which is more linear, spending less time looping in and around
itself while creating a new object?

4. Which requires fewer special/unique constructs added to the
language?

5. Which maps to more easily and directly from simple procedural
thinking?

6. Which should scale further without need for additional support
features?

7.. Ah hell, why don't you write some questions for yourself here and
try answering than make me do all the work?



> Here is what I have so far in the Pros and Cons on this feature:
> 
> Pro:  Allows "on-the-fly" programming style with no classes.
> Con:  Can lead to more undisciplined programming.
> 
> Perhaps you can help us here.

Seriously, I don't think I can help anyone if their idea of an
argument against Arbitrary Feature X is "Can lead to more
undisciplined programming"... except by taking away their keyboard,
along with all electrical appliances, sharp objects, plastic bags and
anything else they might potentially hurt themselves on if they really
have a mind [or not] to. But, you know, I simply don't think it's my
business, or problem, to be saving folks from themselves. Like the old
adage: Never try to teach a pig a sing. It wastes your time and annoys
the pig.

Better for me to say: why not do as I did, and look for the answers
yourself? If you truly want to find them, you will. If you don't, then
don't worry, you won't.


From paul at prescod.net  Sun Apr  4 14:00:54 2004
From: paul at prescod.net (Paul Prescod)
Date: Sun, 04 Apr 2004 11:00:54 -0700
Subject: Difference between default arguments and keyword arguments
In-Reply-To: <c4p4ld$2j1tnb$2@ID-165840.news.uni-berlin.de>
References: <UmTbc.9904$NL4.4809@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net>
	<406FFEAF.3080400@netscape.net>
	<c4p4ld$2j1tnb$2@ID-165840.news.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <40704D56.9070206@prescod.net>

Marco Herrn wrote:

> On 2004-04-04, DoubleM <DoublemPI at netscape.net> wrote:
> 
>>All arguments are keyword arguments.  They may or may not have a default 
>>value.  In your example, voltage is a keyword argument, but it has no 
>>default.
> 
> 
> But what does this mean?:
> 
>     >>> __import__(name="eggs")
>     Traceback (most recent call last):
>       File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
>     TypeError: __import__() takes no keyword arguments

Functions implemented in C do not always have the property that every 
argument is a keyword argument. Functions implemented in Python do have 
that property. It's an implementation quirk.

  Paul Prescod





From alloydflanagan at comcast.net  Fri Apr 30 09:51:39 2004
From: alloydflanagan at comcast.net (A. Lloyd Flanagan)
Date: 30 Apr 2004 06:51:39 -0700
Subject: String formatting (%)
References: <e567c03a.0404280035.79d0d973@posting.google.com>
	<e838aa6e.0404290629.364bddc5@posting.google.com>
	<3281a460.0404291301.3c3c647d@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <e838aa6e.0404300551.34378e9b@posting.google.com>

padhia at yahoo.com (P Adhia) wrote in message news:<3281a460.0404291301.3c3c647d at posting.google.com>...
> Another version of a more compact function would be,
> 
> def commafy(s):
>     return len(s) > 3 and "%s,%s" % (commafy(s[:-3]), s[-3:]) or s
> 
> Note that this function accepts string representation of an integer
> (without checks of course).
> 
> P Adhia

And it seeems to work beautifully.  Thanks, that's a great improvement.


From peter at engcorp.com  Wed Apr 28 09:05:23 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Wed, 28 Apr 2004 09:05:23 -0400
Subject: Backticks: What up?
In-Reply-To: <PZCcnT7qvI2rchPdRWPC-w@speakeasy.net>
References: <PZCcnT7qvI2rchPdRWPC-w@speakeasy.net>
Message-ID: <cM-dndNYm-yOMRLd4p2dnA@powergate.ca>

Steven Brent wrote:

> I was wondering why the backticks in the following fragment:
> 
>         return 'Here's the result: ' + `self.data`
> 
> My guess is that in a return statement (as opposed to a print statement)
> it's necessary to do this in order to get the self.data instance attribute
> as a string, so it can be concatenated with the 'Here's the result: '
> string.
> 
> What exactly do the backticks do, then? Just return the result of an
> expression as a string? Does my guess make sense and / or is it correct?
> Elucidations and gentle ridicule welcome.

The above is equivalent to

   return "Here's the result: %r" % self.data

Note that someone doing the `self.data` thing might really
have wanted to do the string representation instead (though
the two are often the same), so

   return "Here's the result: %s" % self.data

would be more appropriate.

-Peter


From Kyler at news.Lairds.org  Wed Apr 28 08:08:31 2004
From: Kyler at news.Lairds.org (Kyler Laird)
Date: Wed, 28 Apr 2004 12:08:31 GMT
Subject: sending an object - twisted or what?
References: <c6llh1$1k8$1@sparta.btinternet.com>
	<20040427152051.50234c65.mutah@NOSPAM-libertysurf.fr>
	<c6nr1j$g8$1@hercules.btinternet.com>
Message-ID: <ucj4m1-5a5.ln1@snout.lairds.org>

SSH is typically available (and already running as a daemon) on most
computers I touch these days.  It would provide for the secure
transport needed.  Any reason not to use it?

--kyler


From mark at prothon.org  Tue Apr 27 13:15:57 2004
From: mark at prothon.org (Mark Hahn)
Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2004 10:15:57 -0700
Subject: What is good about Prothon?
References: <bniq80hiib0gauiltuntk9jvia2getbnj4@4ax.com>
	<nxdjc.400$Qy.363@fed1read04>
	<m0ps8092jss5mhpopkbj0a4hg0m0rlppqh@4ax.com>
	<vDvjc.5555$Qy.2995@fed1read04>
	<108t2tlo06j8vb9@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <hzwjc.6087$Qy.2366@fed1read04>


"Michael Geary" <Mike at DeleteThis.Geary.com> wrote ...

> I thought you'd already solved the problem anyway?

David has been insisting for weeks that we don't need the obj$func() form if
the interpreter just recognizes that obj is a prototype as Python does with
classes.  This is a never-ending argument that I am trying to end,
especially since he has been using his argument to make claims about Prothon
being too complex.

I've got Has on one side of me who says that having prototype references
instead of copies makes it too much like Python and therefore it isn't
prototype-based and then David who thinks prototypes should be handled
internally like classes (which would actually make them classes) and an
occasional Lisper who thinks Prothon should be like Lisp.  I knew I couldn't
please them all, but I thought I'd be able to please one or two :)




From peter at engcorp.com  Sat Apr 24 08:50:47 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Sat, 24 Apr 2004 08:50:47 -0400
Subject: [OT] Plone
In-Reply-To: <408a2351$1@news.highway1.com.au>
References: <6ukic.84257$cd.5573763@phobos.telenet-ops.be>
	<408a2351$1@news.highway1.com.au>
Message-ID: <pqidnaK4pqI1_xfdRVn-gQ@powergate.ca>

Tim Hoffman wrote:

> Really  I don't understand a lot of peoples complaints about Zopes 
> complexity. 

I'd be interested to hear what products you have written on
Zope, and which of the available techniques (e.g. Python scripts,
Python products, DTML, TAL, or whatever else there is now)
you used to write them.

This might also tell us something about why you don't understand
the complaints of those of us who have struggled greatly with
such things in the past...

-Peter


From peter at engcorp.com  Sun Apr 25 23:03:59 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Sun, 25 Apr 2004 23:03:59 -0400
Subject: Parallel port interface
In-Reply-To: <ln9ul1-9h4.ln1@wintermute.g2ctech>
References: <ln9ul1-9h4.ln1@wintermute.g2ctech>
Message-ID: <deidnRXEhdeC4RHdRVn-jA@powergate.ca>

Jorge Godoy wrote:

> We're doing a research project that involves controlling mini-windtrap
> speeds and we're reading/writing data from the parallel port. 
> 
> What I've found so far on a fast Google search for "python parallel port"
> showed me some stuff that I'd have to interface with Python through SWIG. 
> 
> If the program could be portable in Windows and Linux it would be a big
> plus. We're thinking --- if it can't be written entirely in Python or with
> modules that already have binaries for Windows --- in using a Linux only
> approach (we, the programmers, use Linux only).
> 
> Any hints for modules I should take a look at? 

http://pyserial.sourceforge.net/pyparallel.html might work.  Says
"This module is still under developement. But it may be useful for
developers."

-Peter


From officers-bounces at satlug.org  Thu Apr 15 16:50:45 2004
From: officers-bounces at satlug.org (officers-bounces at satlug.org)
Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2004 15:50:45 -0500
Subject: Your message to Officers awaits moderator approval
Message-ID: <mailman.1598.1082062245.7413.officers@satlug.org>

Your mail to 'Officers' with the subject

    REGISTRATION CONFIRMATION

Is being held until the list moderator can review it for approval.

The reason it is being held:

    Post by non-member to a members-only list

Either the message will get posted to the list, or you will receive
notification of the moderator's decision.  If you would like to cancel
this posting, please visit the following URL:

    http://www.satlug.org/mailman/confirm/officers/6a9c3afb14d5b53e4479a4f87e2b2f1d8c4859e3




From claird at lairds.com  Wed Apr 28 20:27:41 2004
From: claird at lairds.com (Cameron Laird)
Date: Thu, 29 Apr 2004 00:27:41 -0000
Subject: MATLAB2Python
References: <D2Xjc.28117$Qc.1080799@twister1.libero.it>
Message-ID: <1090ivtaa0b2e26@corp.supernews.com>

In article <D2Xjc.28117$Qc.1080799 at twister1.libero.it>,
Sarge  <sarge at arena.invalid> wrote:
>Hi, everybody!
>I'm a moderately experienced programmer in Matlab, and looking for a 
>free computational language (Matlab is *REALLY* expensive for an 
>individual, like me).
>I came across Python (actually Scipy) and immediately felt 
>comfortable with the interface and syntax.
>I'm still a newbe, so, before attempting a serious work on it, I'd 
>like to hear any opinion about migration from Matlab to Python, and 
>also a rough comparison between these two languages.
			.
			.
			.
1.  I run into quite a few people making a transition
    from Matlab to Python; invariably they say that
    the change is working out better than they expected.
    Very roughly speaking, Python allows for more
    abstraction and expressive power that expands their
    horizons beyond what they achieved with Matlab.
2.  They're different, though, and Matlab certainly
    boasts a massive collection of special-purpose
    add-ons that will take a while to replace.  Also,
    for some functions, Matlab is much faster (and for
    others, Python is much faster).
3.  For the most conservative transition, you'll want
    to learn about Octave.

A reference to Octave and more appear at <URL:
http://phaseit.net/claird/comp.programming/open_source_science.html >.
-- 

Cameron Laird <claird at phaseit.net>
Business:  http://www.Phaseit.net


From sp at sunguru.com  Mon Apr 12 10:21:42 2004
From: sp at sunguru.com (Stefan)
Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2004 17:21:42 +0300
Subject: compiling Python 2.3.3 Solaris 9 x86 question 
Message-ID: <7Axec.931$_B6.234@reader1.news.jippii.net>

Hi,

I am trying to build Python 2.3.3 on Solaris 9 x86. Everything goes fine
except that I have some issues with curses module ...



I had to fix configure script in order to get it running by changing

SunOS/5.6 in SunOS/5.*

eg.
"
case $ac_sys_system/$ac_sys_release in
   # On OpenBSD, select(2) is not available if _XOPEN_SOURCE is defined,
   # even though select is a POSIX function. Reported by J. Ribbens.
   # Reconfirmed for OpenBSD 3.3 by Zachary Hamm, for 3.4 by Jason Ish.
   OpenBSD/2.* | OpenBSD/3.[01234])
     define_xopen_source=no;;
   # On Solaris 2.6, sys/wait.h is inconsistent in the usage
   # of union __?sigval. Reported by Stuart Bishop.
   SunOS/5.6)
"


Im building python using 2.95 the GNU compiler.
The configure command was something like:

./configure --prefix=/usr/local --with-threads --enable-shared

My LD_LIBRARY_PATH is defined as:

/opt/sfw/lib:/usr/sfw/lib


---

I have found that after compilation there are some warnings about curses 
module ...


*** WARNING: renaming "_curses" since importing it failed: ld.so.1: 
./python: fatal: relocation error: file 
build/lib.solaris-2.9-i86pc-2.3/_curses.so: symbol newscr: referenced 
symbol not found
building '_curses_panel' extension

*** WARNING: renaming "_curses_panel" since importing it failed: No 
module named _curses

... which, I think, will end by having no curses module available.

 From help() found out these:



help> modules

Please wait a moment while I gather a list of all available modules...


...
_curses_failed      getpass             py_compile
_curses_panel_failed

...


Anyone any ideas about this error? Do I have to instruct configure 
script to pick up some libcurses at the first run ... or my 
LD_LIBRARY_PATH is not correct ?

thanks
stefan



From nick.carter at roke.co.uk  Thu Apr 29 06:45:22 2004
From: nick.carter at roke.co.uk (Nick Carter)
Date: Thu, 29 Apr 2004 11:45:22 +0100
Subject: MATLAB2Python
References: <D2Xjc.28117$Qc.1080799@twister1.libero.it>
	<1090ivtaa0b2e26@corp.supernews.com> <40904EDE.9060407@erols.com>
Message-ID: <715kc.3$i6.251@psinet-eu-nl>

Also look at Matplotlib for Matlab-like plotting:
http://matplotlib.sourceforge.net/

Nick

"Edward C. Jones" <edcjones at erols.com> wrote in message
news:40904EDE.9060407 at erols.com...
> Cameron Laird wrote:
> > In article <D2Xjc.28117$Qc.1080799 at twister1.libero.it>,
> > Sarge  <sarge at arena.invalid> wrote:
> >
> >>Hi, everybody!
> >>I'm a moderately experienced programmer in Matlab, and looking for a
> >>free computational language (Matlab is *REALLY* expensive for an
> >>individual, like me).
> >>I came across Python (actually Scipy) and immediately felt
> >>comfortable with the interface and syntax.
> >>I'm still a newbe, so, before attempting a serious work on it, I'd
> >>like to hear any opinion about migration from Matlab to Python, and
> >>also a rough comparison between these two languages.
> >
> > .
> > .
> > .
> > 1.  I run into quite a few people making a transition
> >     from Matlab to Python; invariably they say that
> >     the change is working out better than they expected.
> >     Very roughly speaking, Python allows for more
> >     abstraction and expressive power that expands their
> >     horizons beyond what they achieved with Matlab.
> > 2.  They're different, though, and Matlab certainly
> >     boasts a massive collection of special-purpose
> >     add-ons that will take a while to replace.  Also,
> >     for some functions, Matlab is much faster (and for
> >     others, Python is much faster).
> > 3.  For the most conservative transition, you'll want
> >     to learn about Octave.
> >
> > A reference to Octave and more appear at <URL:
> > http://phaseit.net/claird/comp.programming/open_source_science.html >.
>
> Also check out numarray and PIL.




From richie at entrian.com  Fri Apr  2 10:02:12 2004
From: richie at entrian.com (Richie Hindle)
Date: Fri, 02 Apr 2004 16:02:12 +0100
Subject: Nonsense (was: Stackless Website down, Project gone, I'm dead.)
In-Reply-To: <406D6AF5.1060809@stackless.com>
References: <406CD030.5010506@stackless.com> <406D6AF5.1060809@stackless.com>
Message-ID: <otvq609l0s9enefml2bk3blsgfpr71he8t@4ax.com>


[Chris]
> No idea which fool tried to make fun of me.

But it was in very bad taste, and we're glad to know you're still around!

> I'd like to know how they faked my emails.

I'm no expert, but it looks like a very good forgery to me.  Perhaps when
they said "some bad intruder has broken into our [...] server" they weren't
kidding?

-- 
Richie Hindle
richie at entrian.com




From roy at panix.com  Thu Apr 22 14:17:14 2004
From: roy at panix.com (Roy Smith)
Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2004 14:17:14 -0400
Subject: equivalent to Tcl 'after' command?
References: <huThc.54272$9V6.15414@newssvr25.news.prodigy.com>
Message-ID: <roy-5B277C.14171322042004@reader2.panix.com>

In article <huThc.54272$9V6.15414 at newssvr25.news.prodigy.com>,
 Mark Harrison <mh at pixar.com> wrote:

> I'm writing some event-driven programs, and I would like
> to do the equivalent of the Tcl 'after' command, e.g.:
> 
> 	after 1000 {puts "one second has elapsed"}

You want to took at the Timer objects that are part of the threading 
module

http://www.python.org/doc/current/lib/timer-objects.html


From nmkolev at uni-bonn.de  Wed Apr 21 12:18:16 2004
From: nmkolev at uni-bonn.de (Nickolay Kolev)
Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2004 18:18:16 +0200
Subject: Optimizing a text statistics function
In-Reply-To: <mb4d80lu4jakcqlq7bkel0f5jm6913vosh@4ax.com>
References: <c661pe$tie$1@f1node01.rhrz.uni-bonn.de>
	<mb4d80lu4jakcqlq7bkel0f5jm6913vosh@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <c666ra$usg$1@f1node01.rhrz.uni-bonn.de>

Dennis Lee Bieber wrote:

> ##	for x in strippedWords:
> ##		unique[x] = 0
> ##
> ##	for x in strippedWords:
> ##		unique[x] += 1
> 
> 	for x in strippedWords:
> 		unique[x] = unique.get(x, 0) + 1


Just the thing I was looking for. :-)

To clarify:

unique.get(x, 0)

This says *give me the value of unique[x] if it exists, else give me 0*. 
Correct?


From mikalzetTogli at interfree.it  Mon Apr  5 12:40:25 2004
From: mikalzetTogli at interfree.it (TaeKyon)
Date: Mon, 05 Apr 2004 16:40:25 GMT
Subject: recursive file editing
References: <pan.2004.04.03.20.25.28.565809@interfree.it>
	<ccFbc.4784$zf6.64753@news4.e.nsc.no>
	<pan.2004.04.03.22.42.10.659781@interfree.it>
	<c4no62$6so$1@news.service.uci.edu>
Message-ID: <pan.2004.04.05.16.40.22.824776@interfree.it>

Il Sat, 03 Apr 2004 17:22:04 -0800, Josiah Carlson ha scritto:

> for thing in os.walk('mydir'):
>      filehandle = file(thing, 'r+')

I'm such a newbe I can't get it to work. Here is an example:

in empty directory foo I touch a b c d;
suppose I want to write "This works !" in each of these files.

I run python
>>> import os
>>> for thing in os.walk('foo'):
...     thingopen = file(thing,'r+')
...     thingopen.write("This works !")
...     thingopen.close()
...
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 2, in ?
TypeError: coercing to Unicode: need string or buffer, tuple found

And in fact:

>>> for thing in os.walk('foo'):
...     print thing
...
('foo', [], ['a', 'b', 'c', 'd'])

which is a tuple, I suppose.

Selecting thing[2] doesn't help, because it now complains of it being a
list.

In the end I get this to work:

for filetuple in os.walk('foo'):
...     for filename in filetuple[2]:
...         fileopen = file(filename, 'r+')
            fileopen.write("This works !")
            fileopen.close()

which seems a bit of a clumsy way to do it.
And besides it only works if I run python from directory foo,
otherwise it tells me "no such file or directory".

--  
Michele Alzetta



From mogmios at mlug.missouri.edu  Sat Apr 24 17:29:52 2004
From: mogmios at mlug.missouri.edu (Michael)
Date: Sat, 24 Apr 2004 14:29:52 -0700
Subject: command-line args
In-Reply-To: <200404242040.i3OKeKjj032092@mlug.missouri.edu>
References: <200404242040.i3OKeKjj032092@mlug.missouri.edu>
Message-ID: <408ADC50.404@mlug.missouri.edu>


>It's definitely always worked that way, at least since 
>long before either of us started using Python.  The problem
>must have been between the keyboard and the chair.  :-)
>  
>
Thanks for the help. I might suggest, if anyone is listening, that this 
would be a good tidbit to include in the docs somewhere obvious. Surely 
I'm not the only person that has gotten this messed up. I am left with a 
useless but pretty nifty lil module for creating temp files, named by 
the process id, that remove themselves when Python exits. Maybe I'll 
find another use for it. Sounds like the type of thing that should have 
been in tempfile. :)



From peter at engcorp.com  Thu Apr 15 14:39:21 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2004 14:39:21 -0400
Subject: Does Python compete with Java?
In-Reply-To: <8b336527.0404151019.14b93502@posting.google.com>
References: <8b336527.0404051337.51bb4a1b@posting.google.com>
	<c4taac$2lg0bc$1@ID-169208.news.uni-berlin.de>
	<e838aa6e.0404071426.7192e8e4@posting.google.com>
	<slrnc79idf.hij.ramen@lackingtalent.com>
	<e838aa6e.0404130748.1d8e1ddf@posting.google.com>
	<407deb56$1@news.unimelb.edu.au>
	<KbydnZd2qY7uyuPdRVn-uw@powergate.ca>
	<8b336527.0404151019.14b93502@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <5KydnYqkwP1ES-PdRVn-vA@powergate.ca>

kk wrote:

> That is exactly my point!  

Uh, sorry, but what point?  The email address and initials you
are using here (kkennedy65 at yahoo.com and kk) have not posted
before in this thread, as far as I can see.  So who are you? :-)

-Peter


From fgeiger at datec.at  Tue Apr 13 12:18:49 2004
From: fgeiger at datec.at (F. GEIGER)
Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2004 18:18:49 +0200
Subject: [wxPython] wxListCtrl_virtual crashes and I can't find what I'm
	doing wrong
Message-ID: <c5h3to$8uk$1@newshispeed.ch>

[Posted to comp.soft-sys.wxwindows and comp.lang.python]


Hi all,

in my MainFrame class I have def'ed a method which is called on idle. There
I retrieve the frame's title for further processing:

currentTitle = self.GetTitle().

No problem so far.

I have a wxNotebook containing several pages. Those pages contain controls
updating themselves, using a wxTimer for that.

No problem so far.

I have added another page containing a control derived from wxListCtrl,
virtual style.

And now I have problems:

This control is named VipAPSpooler. It first used a wxTimer, to update
itself periodically: If the underlying model had changed in the number of
items, it exec'ed a DeleteAllItems() and a SetItemCount().

This did not work: The debugger halted in the MainFrame's(!) on-idle-method
in line

currentTitle = self.GetTitle()

saying "Inappropriate argument type: an integer is required".

I thought, that using too many wxTimer-s could cause this problem (other
controls used timers too to update themselves).

So I decided to eliminate all timers and to write an update method for all
controls that should be able to update themselves. This update-method were
then called from the MainFrames's on-idle-method. The rationale: No more
timers and only one on-idle-method.

But that did not solve the problem. The same and sometimes other weired
errors popped up now in code called by OnGetItemAttr() ans OnGetItemText()
of the virtual wxListCtrl.

Example:

   def __str__(self):
      if self._value: # <- "Inappropriate argument type: an integer is
required".
         return str(self._value)
      return ''

Or this:

   def OnGetItemAttr(self, item):
      if item == self.model().currentLineNbr(): # <- "Inappropriate argument
type: an integer is
         return self._attr
      return None


Executing the offending line in the Debug Probe (yes, it's WingIDE) in each
case passes w/o problems - weird. Looking at the stack data doesn't show any
data corruption, everything seems okay.

I commented out this and that and seem to have found out, that as soon
SetItemCount() is called, the control is no more able to do its job.

I'm stuck in the middle. Despite the fact that my code is cut & pasted from
the demo I am sure to overlook something.

Any idea?

Kind regards
Franz GEIGER

P.S.:
Python 2.3.2 and wxPython 2.4.2.4u on Win2k.
and
Python 2.3.2 and wxPython 2.5.1.5u on WinXP.




From cm at leetspeak.org  Fri Apr 23 07:54:25 2004
From: cm at leetspeak.org (Michael Walter)
Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2004 13:54:25 +0200
Subject: AOP use cases
In-Reply-To: <4087D662.6010209@yahoo.com>
References: <84fc4588.0404140106.3fa0c55@posting.google.com>
	<slrnc7q1ss.1aa.alf@largo.fayauffre.org>
	<cb035744.0404141130.170f51c4@posting.google.com>
	<slrnc7sgat.vp.alf@largo.fayauffre.org>
	<cb035744.0404160442.2f0b1661@posting.google.com>
	<0pydnSB4WYuieuLdRVn-hQ@powergate.ca>
	<tyfbrlkv3ae.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
	<XYmdnVLB9rjbARrdRVn-vg@powergate.ca>
	<tyf7jw8utoo.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
	<c68fj5$7bt$1@news1.wdf.sap-ag.de> <4087D662.6010209@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <c6b05h$9om7g$1@ID-88904.news.uni-berlin.de>

Bryan wrote:
>>
>> Those of you using XML might want to visualize the program as a DOM 
>> tree and
>> AOP as applying a XSLT stylesheet. (Now visualize applying several 
>> different
>> stylesheets in arbitrary order)
>>
>>
>> Daniel
>>
> 
> 
> thank you for this explanation... it's the best explanation i've heard 
> yet and now i have a grasp and can visualize what AOP is.
> 
> bryan

That sounds like a description of (CL/Scheme-style) macros :)

Cheers,
Michael


From jcarlson at uci.edu  Wed Apr 21 11:46:31 2004
From: jcarlson at uci.edu (Josiah Carlson)
Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2004 08:46:31 -0700
Subject: how to calculate correctly the cluster size
In-Reply-To: <mailman.824.1082535251.20120.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.824.1082535251.20120.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <c6657f$6uf$1@news.service.uci.edu>

> Josiah> The Windows 2k "Disk Administrator" software for 
> Josiah> 2K always uses 4k cluster sizes by default.  
> Josiah> I believe your varied cluster sizes are the 
> Josiah> result of using Partition Magic to create them.
> 
> FWIW, the FORMAT command does offer the possibility of selecting
> different cluster sizes. I've never used it personally (and I'm
> not about to try it on this machine, either!)

Indeed, you can change the cluster sizes using the command-line format 
command.  However, when formatting a fresh drive using the format 
command at the command line, I would expect that it would do the same 
thing as the Disk Administrator, user cluster sizes of 4k if possible. 
For a FAT 32 drive, that range is 256 megabytes ... 8 terabytes.

Why 4k?  I don't know, maybe it strikes a nice balance between not 
having enough and having too many clusters, or maybe it is to mirror the 
4k/page size of many paging schemes in modern operating systems.  A 
filesystem designer would probably be quite helpful at this moment.

  - Josiah


From eastier at free.fr  Wed Apr 21 08:53:33 2004
From: eastier at free.fr (Emmanuel)
Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2004 14:53:33 +0200
Subject: Generator inside a class prevent __del__ ??
References: <4085BA96.651D2E4A@free.fr>
	<mailman.819.1082507351.20120.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <40866ECD.A45758B9@free.fr>



Terry Reedy a ?crit :

> "Emmanuel" <eastier at free.fr> wrote in message
> news:4085BA96.651D2E4A at free.fr...
> > I run across this problem, and couldn't find any solution (python 2.2.2)
> ...
> > Here, everything is normal...
> > But creating a generator :
>
> You both defined generator function and called it to create generator
> iterator.

Yes, I don't have all the generators vocabulary yet...

>
>
> >
> > Code :
> > ===========
> >
> > >>> class toto:
> >             def __init__(self):
> >                 print "init"
> >                 self.Coroutine = self.Gen()
>
> This creates a reference loop.  Delete this (and correct typo below) and
> 'problem' will disappear.

>
> >             def __del__(self):
> >                 print "del"
> >             def Gen(self):
>
> If you do not really use self in the resulting iterator, define this
> outside of the class without self as a parameter, and problem will
> disappear.

I didn't use self in order to provide a simple example. In my real class, self
is used...

>
>
> >                 yield 1
> >
> > >>> a = toto()
>
> did you mean 'c = toto()'?

Yes, sorry for that...

>
>
> > init
> > >>> c = []
> >                 <--- Nothing there !!!
> > ==============
> >
> > I can't understand why the destructor is not called when a generator is
> > created, and what I should do to have a "correct" behavior.
>
> Either do not create reference loop or break it with del c.Coroutine.
>
> Terry J. Reedy

Thank you very much for your answer, but I'm still not sure I understand it.
If I understand your words right, creating self.Coroutine as an iterator on
the generator function will create a reference on self, so if I want to use a
generator in a class ( and I really want to ), I must delete explicitly the
iterator before I destroy the object.

Trouble is, I _would_ like not to care about the lifetime of the object, and I
don't know where it will be destroyed.
Should I encapsulate this object in another one, like this :

import toto

class TotoCapsule:
    def __init__( self ):
        self.toto = toto.toto()
    def __del__(self):
        del self.toto.Coroutine
        self.toto = None

And use TotoCapsule ?
But it means I have to write a lot of more code to access toto's method.
Is there a pattern I missed to dea l with that ?

Thanks a lot,

Emmanuel



From nhodgson at bigpond.net.au  Mon Apr 12 08:24:53 2004
From: nhodgson at bigpond.net.au (Neil Hodgson)
Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2004 12:24:53 GMT
Subject: pythonwin crash (used to work) - please help quick.
References: <5Reec.62668$Id.61067@news-binary.blueyonder.co.uk>
	<mailman.537.1081743469.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<c5dp0a$2ebl$1@news.wplus.net>
Message-ID: <pUvec.5849$ED.1843@news-server.bigpond.net.au>

Stevie_Mac:

> So if I understand this, a python GUI can't debug a script that uses code
> from any other GUI implementation (like wx for example)?

   The problems often occur when a GUI debugger is trying to run in the same
process as the target and there are clashes.

> If so, dang! Whats my options - different IDE - or - no debug!

   Running the target in another process as is done by some debuggers is
often more robust. IIRC, the current version of Idle, HAP Debugger, Wing
IDE, and Komodo can work in this manner. I'd recommend having a look at HAP
Debugger which works on Windows, is free and fairly simple. Then if you need
something more comprehensive look at the commercial products.

   Neil




From db3l at fitlinxx.com  Tue Apr  6 17:07:33 2004
From: db3l at fitlinxx.com (David Bolen)
Date: 06 Apr 2004 17:07:33 -0400
Subject: Capturing stdout incrementally
References: <dHFbc.17935$656.789@newssvr27.news.prodigy.com>
	<c4nci9$pp3$1@news.service.uci.edu>
Message-ID: <uwu4szuga.fsf@fitlinxx.com>

Josiah Carlson <jcarlson at uci.edu> writes:

> > I am on Windows by the way, so the utilities are printing to the windows
> > command shell.
> 
> By default, popen in Windows buffers everything coming from the called
> app.  I believe you can use various Windows system calls in pywin32 in
> order to get line buffered output, but I've never done it, so have
> little additional advice other than "check out pywin32".

Typically this behavior on Windows (and at least in my experience on
Unix) comes not from popen buffering its input from the called
program, but the called program buffering its output when it isn't a
normal console.  I'm not sure if this is default behavior from the C
library, but it's particularly true of cross-platform code that often
uses isatty() to check.

You can even see this behavior with Python itself (e.g., if you pipe a
copy of python to run a script).

In general, the only way to fix this is through the program being
called, and not the program doing the calling.  In some cases, the
problem may have a way to disable buffering (for example, the "-u"
command line option with Python), or if it's something you have source
for you can explicitly disable output buffering.  For example, Perl
has no command line option, but you can add code to the script to
disable output buffering.

On Unix, a classic way around code for which you have no source is to
run it under expect or some other pty-simulating code rather than a
simple pipe with popen.  I'm not sure if there's a good pty/expectish
module that works well under Windows (where simulating what a
"console" is can be tougher).

I've only got an evaluation copy of perforce lying around, but I don't
immediately see any way to control its buffering via command line
options.

-- David


From nid_oizo at yahoo.com_remove_the_  Fri Apr 30 13:50:08 2004
From: nid_oizo at yahoo.com_remove_the_ (Nicolas Fleury)
Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2004 13:50:08 -0400
Subject: Unification of Methods and Functions
In-Reply-To: <ies4909uhi4okgfao9frqnnmsarqqjcpsg@4ax.com>
References: <ies4909uhi4okgfao9frqnnmsarqqjcpsg@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <ilwkc.38272$k%.722653@news20.bellglobal.com>

David MacQuigg wrote:
> I'm especially interested in feedback from users who are now learning
> or have recently learned Python.  I already know these changes seem
> trivial to many experts.  I've also heard plenty from the people who
> think Python is so complex that we need to start a whole new language
> ( www.prothon.org ).  I'm looking for a middle ground.  I believe it
> is possible to adopt what is good about Prothon, and not lose ten
> years of software and community development.

I don't think Python is too complex and to me your suggestion adds more 
complexity rather than simplying.  Your proposal is also not 
backward-compatible at all, so I don't see it can ever be accepted.  I 
agree that avoiding self make code lighter, but I don't think it unify 
things or simplify them.  It adds a magic and hidden parameter.  The 
good thing about the current syntax is that it shows what is really 
happening.  Actually, I find the statu quo more unified.

I would prefer self to be a keyword and be used to determine if the 
function is static, but I guess we have to live with things like that. 
I have given some python courses and the self parameter seems to be 
clear for everybody.  I think it even helps comprehension.

Regards,

Nicolas


From rzantow at ntelos.net  Sat Apr  3 00:10:23 2004
From: rzantow at ntelos.net (rzed)
Date: Sat, 03 Apr 2004 05:10:23 GMT
Subject: Indent testers needed (Prothon)
References: <Unqbc.131025$cx5.57643@fed1read04>
	<b5rbc.132699$cx5.63133@fed1read04>
Message-ID: <Xns94C0217D6BF1rzed@63.223.5.95>

"Mark Hahn" <mark at prothon.org> wrote in
news:b5rbc.132699$cx5.63133 at fed1read04: 

> This was a bit premature. Some of our test cases give
> indentation errors. I'll post another file when it is really
> ready for testing. 
> 
> Meanwhile comments on our intended solution would be greatly
> appreciated. 
> 
> 
> 

Some odd-looking things can happen, as it stands. These two
loops parse correctly:

alist = [3,7,11]
blist = [1,2,
  3]

# loop 1
ix = 2
for item in blist:
  alist[ix] = alist[ix] + item
  print alist[ix]
  ix = ix - 1

/* loop 2 */
ix = 2
for
  item
    in
      blist
        :
          alist[ix] =
               alist[
          ix
          ]
                            +
           item
          print alist[ix]
          ix =
           ix
           -
           1

-- 
rzed



From bkc at Murkworks.com  Mon Apr 12 14:35:43 2004
From: bkc at Murkworks.com (Brad Clements)
Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2004 14:35:43 -0400
Subject: embedding python
References: <fg6qk1-jac.ln1@netzen.intra.faino.org>
Message-ID: <c5eni4$6kp$1@sea.gmane.org>

I compiled Python 2.3.2(alpha2) on uClinux and linked it with libxml2 and
libxslt. This ran on a Arcturus 68K board with 2meg flash and 8meg ram.
Barely fit, was very slow. We abandoned the platform. I've been promised an
ARM board with 64 meg ram (uh, that was 6 months ago). Haven't seen it
arrive yet.

Anyway, it works.. I just cross compiled as part of the uClinux dev chain.
You didn't mention which OS you want.


-- 
Novell DeveloperNet Sysop #5

_
"Andrea Fino" <af at faino.org> wrote in message
news:fg6qk1-jac.ln1 at netzen.intra.faino.org...
> Hi,
>
> I am studying how to get a python 2.3 interpreter running in a small
> embedded system ie. 8MB flash ans 32MB ram,
>
> after some search with google on thiw newgroup looks like others already
> did this kind of stuff,
>
> Could I have some hints how to proceed, and/or url to read about it?
>
> there is any doc?
>
> Thanks,
> Andrea
>
> -- 
> Andrea Fino 8-) - "Sistemi su misura di qualita' industriale"
>                    "Handcrafted systems with industrial quality"
>
> [Phone: +39 071 2070104]+[Fax: +39 071 2077919]+[iaxtel:17002876594]
> [Web: http://www.faino.org]+[Email: af at faino.org]
>
> -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
> Version: 3.1
> GCS: d- s: a+ C+++ UL++++ P++ L++++ E--- W++ N++ o? K w--- O M V
> PS++ PE+ Y+ PGP t+ 5? X-- R* tv- b-- DI+++ D G++ e* h r y+
> ------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------
> -- 
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>






From piet at cs.uu.nl  Fri Apr 30 13:21:17 2004
From: piet at cs.uu.nl (Piet van Oostrum)
Date: 30 Apr 2004 19:21:17 +0200
Subject: uuid generator
References: <mailman.91.1083177468.25742.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <wzoep9l6uq.fsf@Ordesa.local>

>>>>> Marcello Pietrobon <teiffel at attglobal.net> (MP) wrote:

MP> Hello,
MP> I need to read newly generated uuid from Python
MP> but I am not sure if
MP> http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Cookbook/Python/Recipe/163604

MP> is the right code

There's another one at http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Cookbook/Python/Recipe/213761
-- 
Piet van Oostrum <piet at cs.uu.nl>
URL: http://www.cs.uu.nl/~piet [PGP]
Private email: P.van.Oostrum at hccnet.nl


From sean at sands.beach.net  Wed Apr 28 16:22:32 2004
From: sean at sands.beach.net (Sean Berry)
Date: Wed, 28 Apr 2004 20:22:32 GMT
Subject: How to add an attachment with smtplib module
Message-ID: <coUjc.920$ph.527@fed1read07>

I have the sample script that uses the smtplib module
that is available at python.org.

How can I use this to send an attachment?

Help is greatly appreciated.

Thanks.

-- 


From pbaldanta at yahoo.com  Thu Apr  1 03:01:21 2004
From: pbaldanta at yahoo.com (Pedro Baldanta)
Date: 1 Apr 2004 00:01:21 -0800
Subject: Python conference slogan
References: <mailman.189.1080759511.20120.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <caa7c394.0403312329.288eb813@posting.google.com>

Shane Hathaway <shane at zope.com> wrote in message news:<mailman.189.1080759511.20120.python-list at python.org>...
> Here's a Python slogan suggestion by Ken Manheimer.
> 
> One Nation Under Under Python
> 
> I thought it was pretty funny.  I don't know if international folks will 
> get it, though. :-)
> 
> Shane

Bite the python.


From junkmail at solumslekt.org  Fri Apr  2 03:36:09 2004
From: junkmail at solumslekt.org (Leif B. Kristensen)
Date: Fri, 02 Apr 2004 10:36:09 +0200
Subject: String concatenation
References: <wS8bc.4382$px6.64058@news2.e.nsc.no>
	<7xisgi24fm.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <Rz9bc.4514$zf6.60676@news4.e.nsc.no>

Paul Rubin wrote:

> Not tested:
> 
>   tmp = [x for x in res if x and x[0] != '-']
>   return ', '.join(tmp)

Paul,
that looks a lot more like the examples in "Dive Into Python" which I'm
reading at the moment. But the snake won't swallow:

    tmp?=?[x?for?x?in?res?if?x?and?x[0]?!=?'-']
    ^
SyntaxError: invalid syntax

I wonder what it's really trying to tell me?

regards,
-- 
Leif Biberg Kristensen
http://solumslekt.org/
Validare necesse est


From a at a.invalid  Tue Apr 20 14:54:19 2004
From: a at a.invalid (Timo Virkkala)
Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 18:54:19 GMT
Subject: Pygame book
In-Reply-To: <vA8hc.2788$gH6.118@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net>
References: <vA8hc.2788$gH6.118@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <vlehc.375$uz.125@read3.inet.fi>

Lucas Raab wrote:

> I was at the bookstore the other day and I noticed a book that dealt with
> making games with Pygame. As I recall the book title was "Game Programming
> with Python." I have an interest in making games, so I was wondering if any
> of you have this book and if you do, could you please give me a nice
> overview and whether I should buy the book or not.

I own the book, and I liked it a lot. During the book the author 
develops a game framework. Sure, there's some things I'd like to do 
differently, but overall it seemed like solid work. There are also 
chapters on extending and embedding Python.

I'd suggest you take a closer look at the book, and if you like it, buy 
it. I haven't regretted spending my money on it =)

--
Timo Virkkala


From ajsiegel at optonline.com  Thu Apr  8 21:11:41 2004
From: ajsiegel at optonline.com (Arthur)
Date: Fri, 09 Apr 2004 01:11:41 GMT
Subject: List vs tuples
References: <c54cjb$5fs$1@planja.arnes.si> <107bf8q8fhsmg5e@news.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <bstb709etput4t6njitncmhl8bhaqqbgb3@4ax.com>

On Thu, 8 Apr 2004 16:57:25 -0400, "John Roth"
<newsgroups at jhrothjr.com> wrote:

>It's a common question. A list is a data structure that is
>intended to be used with homogenous members; that is,
>with members of the same type.

As succeint and comforting as the explanation is....

I have consulted the Python Desgin Manual: Occult Edition, and if my
search of the list archives is true, the statement:

"""

A list is a data structure that is intended to be used with homogenous
members; that is,with members of the same type.

"""

is still 6 incantaions shy of becoming meaningful.

5 now actually.

Art


From tuure at laurinolli.net  Sat Apr  3 09:27:08 2004
From: tuure at laurinolli.net (Tuure Laurinolli)
Date: Sat, 03 Apr 2004 17:27:08 +0300
Subject: HTML writer
In-Reply-To: <lUubc.17806$pq2.8384@newssvr27.news.prodigy.com>
References: <yL9bc.45202$wH3.33614@newssvr25.news.prodigy.com>
	<406D3C97.7020006@livinglogic.de>
	<lUubc.17806$pq2.8384@newssvr27.news.prodigy.com>
Message-ID: <c4mh8n$bmv$1@plaza.suomi.net>

Moosebumps wrote:

> That is, I would not like any specific HTML tags anywhere in my own code,
> and it seems like that is what they will allow me to do.  But I would be
> interested to hear opinions/experiences with these packages.

I spent a couple of days last week getting to know each of these. I 
found HTMLgen as I was getting desperate with the tag soup in my code 
and quickly converted the code to use it. Then I found out it only does 
HTML 3.2, missing end tags of elements and such. Some parts of the model 
also weren't as generic as they should have been.

Next I stumbled upon HyperText, which seemed to fix all the 
incosistencies of HTMLgen, and also output XHTML 1.0. THe problem was 
that I found no way to use web forms with it. The 'name'-attribute of an 
input tag seemed to be impossible to set(ie. foo.name didn't do the 
right thing, foo['name'] was illegal and there weren't any obvious false 
names like klass <-> class). Fixing this would have been easy, but I 
decided to look for alternatives.

The final option seemed to be XIST, of which HTML seems to be only small 
part. It seems to implement HTML in a consistent fashion, allowing all 
the necessary tag attributes to be set and otherwise providing a nice 
interface to the horrible world of web :)

-- Tuure Laurinolli


From knight at baldmt.com  Sat Apr 10 01:48:19 2004
From: knight at baldmt.com (Steven Knight)
Date: 9 Apr 2004 22:48:19 -0700
Subject: automatically generating file dependency information from
	python tools
References: <bhFdc.50011$bE2.25447@newssvr25.news.prodigy.com>
	<107eag4pnl2ar35@news.supernews.com>
	<KlHdc.50050$ll3.36515@newssvr25.news.prodigy.com>
Message-ID: <e940d504.0404092148.32636010@posting.google.com>

> > I'm not entirely clear on what the purpose of this is. I normally
> > think of "makefile" type information as something needed to compile
> > a program. This is something that isn't usually needed for Python
> > unless you're dealing with C extensions. Then I'd suggest looking at
> > SCons (www.scons.org).
> 
> Well sorry for being so abstract, let me be a little more concrete.  I am
> working at a video game company, and I have had some success using Python
> for tools.  I am just thinking about ways to convince other people to use
> it.  One way would be to improve the build processes, and be able to do
> incremental builds of art assets without any additional effort from
> programmers.  Basically I'm trying to find a way to do some work for free
> with python.
> 
> The idea is that there are many different types of assets, e.g. 3D models,
> textures/other images, animations, audio, spreadsheet data, etc.  Each of
> these generally has some tool that converts it from the source format to the
> format that is stored in the game on disk / in memory.  Hence they are
> usually simple command line data crunchers.  They take some files as input
> and just produce other files as output.

Check out SCons; it's specifically designed to be extensible in just
this way to handle different utilities for building different file types,
as well as allowing you to write scanners to return dependencies based on
any mechanism you can code up in Python.  SCons is already in use by a
number of gaming companies to speed up and improve their builds.

        --SK


From rick.lawson at rbc.com  Wed Apr 21 12:53:26 2004
From: rick.lawson at rbc.com (rick.lawson at rbc.com)
Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2004 12:53:26 -0400
Subject: tkinter widget collection project
Message-ID: <12C2B8E4DF512A408A4D0BA223AF032F0C6DAD51@SEW80008.palm.fg.rbc.com>

I, like a lot of developers, have collected a homegrown set of widgets for
Tkinter.

Any thoughts on a central repository for Tkinter widgets or widget
extensions? Stuff that's not in Tkinter or standard extensions like Pmw.

It would be nice if you could go to sourceforge and download a package
instead of hunting the Vaults, the Activestate cookbook, googling, etc.

If there's enough interest I'd be willing to set the project up on
sourceforge and provide some (limited) manpower towards packaging submitted
widgets.

Thanks,
Rick Lawson 

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From newsgroups at jhrothjr.com  Mon Apr 26 14:22:45 2004
From: newsgroups at jhrothjr.com (John Roth)
Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2004 14:22:45 -0400
Subject: How's ruby compare to it older brother python
References: <c6ich0$c5mee$1@ID-205437.news.uni-berlin.de>
	<108pvmgl0h7m3ea@news.supernews.com> <c6jg7404m@enews4.newsguy.com>
Message-ID: <108qksd83igmn6f@news.supernews.com>

"Phil Tomson" <ptkwt at aracnet.com> wrote in message
news:c6jg7404m at enews4.newsguy.com...
> In article <108pvmgl0h7m3ea at news.supernews.com>,
> John Roth <newsgroups at jhrothjr.com> wrote:
> >
> >"Hunn E. Balsiche" <hunnebal at yahoo.com> wrote in message
> >news:c6ich0$c5mee$1 at ID-205437.news.uni-berlin.de...
> >> in term of its OO features, syntax consistencies, ease of use, and
their
> >> development progress. I have not use python but heard about it quite
> >often;
> >> and ruby, is it mature enough to be use for developing serious
> >application,
> >> e.g web application as it has not many features in it yet.
> >
> >As another poster has mentioned, Ruby is more closely related
> >to Perl than to Python. While I don't use it, people I respect who
> >have moved to Ruby say it has a couple of real killer features;
> >in particular the way blocks and the pervasive use of the visitor
> >pattern come together change the way one writes programs for
> >the better.
> >
> >As far as syntax is concerned, there doesn't seem to be a
> >huge amount of difference. Syntax is syntax, and every language
> >has it's little pecularities.
>
> Well, there is one big difference syntactically: Python uses indentation
> as syntax and Ruby doesn't.  Personally I don't prefer Python's
> 'indentation-as-syntax' since it means that syntactically significant
> pieces of my code are invisible and if the tab settings in my editor are
> not the same as yours it can make it difficult to share code (or even
> worse, it might look like everything is OK when we share code, but the
> code which looks exactly the same to each of us, might not be depending
> on how tabs are or are not expanded). It would also seem to be a pain for
> cutting & pasting code as well.

As I said in another post, indentation is the reason I learned
Python in the first place, but it's not the reason I stay with
the language. In fact, I've come to the very heretical view
that the indentation sensitivity is a language design mistake.
It should be the editor's job to handle that level of detail in
a manner that the developer finds workable.

One reason I think it's a language design mistake is that
it's not recursive. That is, it's not possible to shift from
expression level indentation back to statement level
indentation without major disruptions. This is needed for
embedded blocks.

I think Ruby has a reasonable middle ground here: its use of
'end' is fairly unobtrusive compared to, for example, C, C++,
C# or Java. Even so, I think that a reasonable programming
editor would get them out of my face while I was programming.

The tab issue is one of those relatively inconsequential things
that people seem to love to argue about: I'd rather be able to
tell the editor how I want the program formatted, and have done
with it.

> Phil




From junkmail at solumslekt.org  Mon Apr 26 14:28:13 2004
From: junkmail at solumslekt.org (Leif B. Kristensen)
Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2004 20:28:13 +0200
Subject: Is Perl *that* good? (was: How's ruby compare to it older
	brother python)
References: <c6ich0$c5mee$1@ID-205437.news.uni-berlin.de>
	<iL3jc.232$Yc.2330@news4.e.nsc.no>
	<108q51j4dscn7dc@corp.supernews.com>
	<knbjc.267$id.3998@news2.e.nsc.no>
	<108qi5opkrfnv56@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <gxcjc.321$Yc.3829@news4.e.nsc.no>

Cameron Laird rose and spake:

> Long ago, I was myself involved in a tiny way with
> parish records for Finnmark and Troms.  I wish I'd
> been able to do more ...

That's very interesting from my point of view. Starting this autumn, by
the way, the Norwegian National Archive will begin to publish scanned
images of parish records on the Web. They plan to finish this job in a
couple of years, and then go on to other popular sources for
genealogists, such as probates, court records, and land transactions.

> I'm glad things are working for you.  I'm all for
> not-duplicating effort.  Do you realize you can use
> PHP from the command line?  As I understand your
> explanation, it doesn't reflect AT ALL on a defici-
> ency in PHP string-handling; to my eye, PHP can do
> the operation just about as well as Perl.

It probably could, but at the time I wrote my FoxPro extraction script I
was very much into Perl. I was very happy to find the XBase module, and
besides, I have been unable to find something similar in any other
language that I have more than a nodding aquaintance with.

> I continue to conclude that all these languages are
> roughtly equally competent at managing strings.

Perhaps, but right now I think that I'm in love with Python. Consider
these two equivalent routines in PHP and Python:

PHP:
function get_place($x) {
    $query = "select pl1, pl2, pl3, pl4, pl5 
              from places where place_id = $x";
    $handle = mysql_query($query);
    $row = mysql_fetch_row($handle);
    $pl_string = '';
    if ($p_num == 1) return '';
    $i = 0;
    for ($j = 0; $j<5; $j++) {
        if ($row[$j] != '' && substr($row[$j], 0, 1) != '-') {
            $pl[$i] = $row[$j];
            $i++;
        }
    }
    for ($j = 0; $j < ($i-1); $j++)
        $pl_string .= $pl[$j].', ';
    $pl_string .= $pl[$i-1];
    return ltrim(rtrim($pl_string));
}

Python:
def get_place(x):
    c=db.cursor()
    c.execute("select pl1, pl2, pl3, pl4, pl5 
                from place where place_id = %d" % (x))
    result=c.fetchone()
    return ', '.join([p for p in result if p and p[0] != '-'])

Consider that my entire Web site is written in PHP. I stumbled across
Python just a few weeks ago, and got substantial help with the latter
version of the routine from Paul Rubin on this list.

My PHP coding may be suboptimal, but in terms both of codability and
readability as well as in sheer elegance, I find the Python version
superior in any way.

regards,
-- 
Leif Biberg Kristensen
http://solumslekt.org/
Validare necesse est


From no.email at please.com  Sun Apr 11 13:01:01 2004
From: no.email at please.com (Stevie_mac)
Date: Sun, 11 Apr 2004 18:01:01 +0100
Subject: pythonwin crash (used to work) - please help quick.
Message-ID: <5Reec.62668$Id.61067@news-binary.blueyonder.co.uk>

OS=XP, Python 2.3, wx2.5.1.5u
Not sure what's to blame here - or to be more precise, how to fix it!...

If I do this in PythonWin...
import wx
d = wx.Dialog(None, -1, 'title')
BANG - IDE crashes


If I do this in PyShell...
import wx
d = wx.Dialog(None, -1, 'title')
d.ShowModal()
# Excellent - no problem!


Thing is, it used to work! So I reinstalled PythonWin & wxPython - but still No Good.



'******************* Errors when PythonWin crashes *************************
Faulting application pythonwin.exe, version 2.3.2.163, faulting module wxbase251uh_vc.dll, version 0.0.0.0, fault
address 0x0003560a.

Faulting application pythonwin.exe, version 2.3.2.163, faulting module mfc42.dll, version 6.0.8665.0, fault address
0x00001c65.




From wweston at att.net  Wed Apr 21 13:31:21 2004
From: wweston at att.net (wes weston)
Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2004 17:31:21 GMT
Subject: This is very simple question
In-Reply-To: <b0457a31.0404210754.2a34b6be@posting.google.com>
References: <b0457a31.0404210754.2a34b6be@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <Jdyhc.15586$um3.345362@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>

Eric wrote:
> I would want to obtain a list of factors (multiples of 2) given a
> prime number in python.
> 
> For example 13=[8,4,1], 5=[4,1], 7=[4,2,1], 15=[8,4,2,1]
> 
> I would appreciate a fuction which would do this.
> 
> Eric

Eric,
    To be less illustrative and somewhat more efficient.
wes

import math

def ListOfPowersLessThan(n):
     list = []
     i    = 0
     while True:
         x = int(math.pow(2,i))
         if x <= n:
             list.append(x)
         else:
             break
         i += 1
     return list

TEST   = [13,5,7,15,17,33]
powers = ListOfPowersLessThan( max(TEST) )
powers.reverse()

for x in TEST:
     sum = 0
     list = []
     for s in powers:
         if (sum + s) <= x:
             sum += s
             list.append(s)
         if sum >= x:
             break
     print x,list

 >>>
13 [8, 4, 1]
5 [4, 1]
7 [4, 2, 1]
15 [8, 4, 2, 1]
17 [16, 1]
33 [32, 1]
 >>>



From d00roth at dtek.chalmers.se  Wed Apr 14 23:05:05 2004
From: d00roth at dtek.chalmers.se (Daniel Roth)
Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2004 05:05:05 +0200
Subject: 7bit to 8bit
Message-ID: <c5ku5l$kgd$1@eol.dd.chalmers.se>

Hi all!

seems like I've searched the whole net but still not found an answer to 
this question:
how do one easy convert a 8bit-text, which by python seems to be in 
7bit, to 8bit? I want to convert '=F6' to '?', '=E4' to '?' and so on.
of course without doing a replace for all those characters.

Daniel


From peter at engcorp.com  Tue Apr  6 15:05:01 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Tue, 06 Apr 2004 15:05:01 -0400
Subject: Richards bench benchmark
In-Reply-To: <6748553f.0404060802.6e0d708c@posting.google.com>
References: <6748553f.0403291446.27fb7b93@posting.google.com>
	<jLCdnW28-PB6cfXdRVn-iQ@powergate.ca>
	<6748553f.0403300836.744e3e22@posting.google.com>
	<Etqdnd8EeYGjM_TdRVn-jA@powergate.ca>
	<6748553f.0403302317.4595844@posting.google.com>
	<RuKdnc0lmsZFTfHdRVn-ug@powergate.ca>
	<6748553f.0404060802.6e0d708c@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <nrKdnaEeNcXAYu_dRVn-vw@powergate.ca>

Duncan Lissett wrote:
> Peter Hansen <peter at engcorp.com> wrote in message news:<RuKdnc0lmsZFTfHdRVn-ug at powergate.ca>...
> 
> 
>>The code should be available with
>>
>>   svn co svn://fortress.engcorp.com/public/bench
>>
>>I don't really expect anyone to check it out at this stage, but if you
>>happen to have a free moment, I wouldn't mind knowing if subversion
>>is properly visible through my firewall.
> 
> 
> What do we use to browse that?

Subversion, the replacement for CVS.  See http://subversion.tigris.org/
for a start, and grab the command line version for whatever OS
you are using and after an appropriate installation, the above command
should grab the source into the "public/bench" folder under your current
directory.  There's also TortoiseSVN (integrated with Win Explorer 
shell) or RapidSVN from the same place.

-Peter


From sholden at holdenweb.com  Thu Apr 29 15:42:20 2004
From: sholden at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Thu, 29 Apr 2004 15:42:20 -0400
Subject: PYTHONSTARTUP and Cygwin
In-Reply-To: <9c1c646f.0404291107.5a6137dc@posting.google.com>
References: <9c1c646f.0404291107.5a6137dc@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <%Sckc.8205$f_5.1627@lakeread01>

Dwi Sianto Mansjur wrote:
> I tried to set up PYTHONPATH in cygwin but it doesn't work.
> Any clue why ?
> The following is my session.
> 
> $ echo $PYTHONPATH
> /home/Cherna/86_DevelopingTools:/home/Cherna/87_TestingCorpus
> 
> $ echo $PYTHONSTARTUP
> /home/Cherna/86_DevelopingTools:/home/Cherna/87_TestingCorpus
> 
> $ python
> Python 2.3.3 (#1, Dec 30 2003, 08:29:25) 
> [GCC 3.3.1 (cygming special)] on cygwin
> Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
> 
>>>>import sys
>>>>sys.path
> 
> ['', '/usr/lib/python23.zip', '/usr/lib/python2.3',
> '/usr/lib/python2.3/plat-cygwin', '/usr/lib/python2.3/lib-tk',
> '/usr/lib/python2.3/lib-dynload', '/usr/lib/python2.3/site-packages',
> '/usr/lib/python2.3/site-packages/Numeric']
> 
> thanks.

You probably forgot to export them to put them in the environment?

$ export PYTHONPATH=/c/testwebapp:/c/Steve

sholden at DELLBOY /c/testwebapp/views
$ echo $PYTHONPATH
/c/testwebapp:/c/Steve

sholden at DELLBOY /c/testwebapp/views
$ python
Python 2.3.3 (#1, Dec 30 2003, 08:29:25)
[GCC 3.3.1 (cygming special)] on cygwin
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
 >>> import sys
 >>> sys.path
['', '/c/testwebapp', '/c/Steve', '/usr/lib/python23.zip',
'/usr/lib/python2.3',  '/usr/lib/python2.3/plat-cygwin',
'/usr/lib/python2.3/lib-tk', '/usr/lib/python
2.3/lib-dynload',
'/usr/lib/python2.3/site-packages']
 >>>

Certainly works for me, anyhow ...

regards
  Steve


From gabriel.cooper at mediapulse.com  Mon Apr 19 10:41:46 2004
From: gabriel.cooper at mediapulse.com (Gabriel Cooper)
Date: Mon, 19 Apr 2004 10:41:46 -0400
Subject: equivalent to Java's toString()?
Message-ID: <4083E52A.3030207@mediapulse.com>

What is the python equivalent to java's toString()?

When debugging I want to be able to basically be able to do this:

    print MyObjectInstance

or
    print str(MyObjectInstance)

and have it print out formatted output along the lines of:

    Object properties: Red=0 Yellow=0 Blue=255

currently I get something like this:

    <Some Object at 0xff32ffca3>

In java it would look like this:

class SomeClass {
    [...]
    String toString() {
       return new String("Object properties: Red=" + red + " Yellow: " + 
yellow + " Blue: " + blue);
    }
}



From mark at prothon.org  Sat Apr  3 13:48:10 2004
From: mark at prothon.org (Mark Hahn)
Date: Sat, 3 Apr 2004 10:48:10 -0800
Subject: Indent testers needed (Prothon)
References: <Unqbc.131025$cx5.57643@fed1read04>
	<noOdnTqctOE3pPPdRVn-tw@powergate.ca>
	<Oerbc.133153$cx5.81711@fed1read04>
	<du7r7v5lb5n.fsf@lehtori.cc.tut.fi>
Message-ID: <KFDbc.148020$cx5.28330@fed1read04>


"Ville Vainio" <ville at spammers.com> wrote

> Just allow both spaces and tabs, but not in the same block.

This is a good idea.  I could reset the flag for the indent type whenever
the indentation goes to zero.  I'll pitch this on the Prothon list.

"rezed" wrote ...

> I don't show visible tab marks in my editors, and I don't want to
> have to, but if I don't, I haven't any good way to know whether a
> piece of code contains tabs or spaces. Until I run it, at least.

I agree this is a problem, but the whole problem we are trying to solve,
that of mixed spaces and tabs, would cause you the same grief, or worse,
right?





From ods at strana.ru  Fri Apr 16 11:24:48 2004
From: ods at strana.ru (Denis S. Otkidach)
Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2004 19:24:48 +0400 (MSD)
Subject: (For gurus) Embed functions in webpages like in PHP?
In-Reply-To: <pan.2004.04.16.13.09.40.28527@thomas-guettler.de>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44L.0404161912020.22940-100000@ods.pravda.rfn.ru>

On Fri, 16 Apr 2004, Thomas Guettler wrote:

TG> The problem with caching: When is
TG> the data outdate?
TG>
TG> You could use this approach:
TG> Run a cron-job every hour which does the complicated
TG> query which needs long to compute. Dump
TG> the result into a file (Look for "pickle"
TG> in the module index of the docs).
TG>
TG> Load this file for every request
TG> and insert this into the template.

Similar approach is used in QPS (http://ppa.sf.net/#qps), where
static and semi-static pages are generated with cron job and/or
on data update events.  It is successfully used for several large
(>2Gb of HTML files) heavy loaded (millions of requests/day)
frequently udated (thousands of updates/day).  Unfortunately it
lacks documentation (at least in English) so you need to read
source and ask for support in mail list.

-- 
Denis S. Otkidach
http://www.python.ru/      [ru]




From claird at lairds.com  Sat Apr  3 20:59:06 2004
From: claird at lairds.com (Cameron Laird)
Date: Sun, 04 Apr 2004 01:59:06 -0000
Subject: simple popen question
References: <mailman.302.1081010146.20120.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <106uqvaodeemo7a@corp.supernews.com>

In article <mailman.302.1081010146.20120.python-list at python.org>,
Jim Benson  <jbenson at sextans.lowell.edu> wrote:
			.
			.
			.
>> Also, Mr. Benson, are you *sure* you want to treat blank lines as
>> end-of-message markers?
>> 
>
>Perhaps not...but it seems to work. It doesn't stop on
>lines that contain only a '\n\0' for example. Hence
>on the write side i can print out apparently blank lines..
>to make the reading of the output easier....and the 
>readline loop keeps piping them and only stops when the
>executable stops. 
			.
			.
			.
You're right, I was wrong; I thought I'd spotted
a common error, and didn't make the time to think
carefully.  Your usage *is*, in fact, consistent.
I apologize for the confusion.
-- 

Cameron Laird <claird at phaseit.net>
Business:  http://www.Phaseit.net


From reverse.ku.oc.issolok at nothypgnal.delrest.co.uk  Wed Apr 28 11:34:42 2004
From: reverse.ku.oc.issolok at nothypgnal.delrest.co.uk (Paul Sweeney)
Date: Wed, 28 Apr 2004 15:34:42 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: sending an object - twisted or what?
References: <c6llh1$1k8$1@sparta.btinternet.com>
	<20040427152051.50234c65.mutah@NOSPAM-libertysurf.fr>
	<c6nr1j$g8$1@hercules.btinternet.com>
	<ucj4m1-5a5.ln1@snout.lairds.org>
Message-ID: <c6oiui$huh$1@sparta.btinternet.com>

"Kyler Laird" <Kyler at news.Lairds.org> wrote in message
news:ucj4m1-5a5.ln1 at snout.lairds.org...
> SSH is typically available (and already running as a daemon) on most
> computers I touch these days.  It would provide for the secure
> transport needed.  Any reason not to use it?
>
> --kyler

It's quite likely this is going the way of xml-rpc over ssh.

Good call, thx

Paul




From donn at u.washington.edu  Mon Apr 12 17:15:58 2004
From: donn at u.washington.edu (Donn Cave)
Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2004 14:15:58 -0700
Subject: How to kill a SocketServer?
References: <c5e6k3$jf4$1@newshispeed.ch> <c5ed3b$drg$06$1@news.t-online.com>
	<c5esmh$h8$1@newshispeed.ch>
Message-ID: <donn-09C96F.14155812042004@nntp4.u.washington.edu>

In article <c5esmh$h8$1 at newshispeed.ch>,
 "Jean-Pierre Bergamin" <james at ractive.ch> wrote:

> ... The problem is the following:
> The server waits for a connection and it calls in
> SocketServer.TCPServer.handle_request() the function self.socket.accept().
> This call blocks until a connections is made.
> 
> I have no chance to interrupt this call. I also tried:
> 
> def stop_server:
>     self.socket.shutdown(2)
>     self.socket.close()
>     self.run_me = False
> 
> The accept() call still won't get interrupted. :-(
> 
> Other ideas?

I seem to recall a very similar question last week, so you
might look around to see what answers that one got.  There
was at least one that proposed a connection to the service.
That makes a lot of sense to me, especially if you're in a
position to change the service protocol if necessary.

   Donn Cave, donn at u.washington.edu


From get at bent.com  Mon Apr 12 19:29:33 2004
From: get at bent.com (nobody)
Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2004 09:29:33 +1000
Subject: Non-math-geek needs help with CRCs (binascii.crc32)
References: <4073c865$0$27642$61ce578d@news.syd.swiftdsl.com.au>
	<slrnc7820b.o9j.ncw@irishsea.home.craig-wood.com>
	<40751603$0$27643$61ce578d@news.syd.swiftdsl.com.au>
	<g5dc705l6q9sa0pf9do4sab0bn7kuepajs@4ax.com>
	<4076ff3d$0$27642$61ce578d@news.syd.swiftdsl.com.au>
	<f6hh701faip5ghl910co517i7on0eloij1@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <407b2461$0$27644$61ce578d@news.syd.swiftdsl.com.au>

> >> >Somehow, depending on how the numbers are massaged, the old code based
on
> >> >$EDB88320 is compatible with what the above site documents as
$04C11DB7.
> >> Did you notice that those two numbers are mirror images of each other?
> >> Could just be a difference in interpretation.
> >
> >How does one get the same result with a reflected and non-reflected
> >algorithm using the exact same input?
>
> Well, what I was saying was that perhaps the two algorithms are doing
their
> computations in the opposite order.  It's just suspicious that they are
> reflections of each other.

Errr... according to the document referenced earlier, the reflected
algorithm is due to hardware UARTs supplying the bits in reverse order, so
hardware CRC implementations started doing their calculations in reverse,
hence the back-arsewards $EDB88320 poly.  However, pretty much every
software based algorithm I've seen up to recently has been the reversed
one.. with normal data.. so no need for the backwards poly.. so I dunno WTF
is going on there.





From reneaguirre at yahoo.com  Fri Apr 30 14:48:03 2004
From: reneaguirre at yahoo.com (Rene Aguirre)
Date: 30 Apr 2004 11:48:03 -0700
Subject: sending email notification
Message-ID: <18e22d94.0404301048.35e0e701@posting.google.com>

Hello,

I'd like to make a sort of web tracking system for internal stuff at
my office.
But I'm having problems about how to add email notification to my
script.

I already tried to send email by using the 'email' module, with no
success (the connection can't be stablished). I think my case is a
very specific enviroment (may be very common):
  * Local /corporate intranet controlled through NTFS proxy.
  * I don't have access to a regular SMTP mail server, regular email
access is through outlook email server, so, I'll have to send emai
messages to the corporate outlook server.
  * Desktop / server enviroment is windows (if I make a cgi script the
server where it'll run is a regular Windows XP machine here in the
office running Apache).

Any ideas, is it possible?

Rene


From remi at cherrypy.org  Tue Apr 27 13:22:41 2004
From: remi at cherrypy.org (Remi Delon)
Date: 27 Apr 2004 10:22:41 -0700
Subject: CherryPy-0.10 released
Message-ID: <585c0de9.0404270922.16d849b8@posting.google.com>

Hello everyone,

I am pleased to announce the release of CherryPy-10.

It's been a while since I last announced a CherryPy release on this
newsgroup but a lot has happened since then:

- The cherrypy.org site now has a nice forum and a wiki
- Sessions are now fully thread-safe and they work great in production
environments with the thread-pool HTTP-server
- Jython compatibility has been restored
- Lots of new HowTos have been added to the documentation, including
one HowTo about best practices for deploying a demanding production
website.
- Plus many bugfixes and improvements ...


------------------------------------------
About CherryPy:

CherryPy is a Python based web development toolkit. It provides all
the features of an enterprise-class application server while remaining
light, fast and easy to learn.
CherryPy allows developers to build web applications in much the same
way they would build any other object-oriented Python program. This
usually results in smaller source code developed in less time.

Remi.

http://www.cherrypy.org


From alexanro at stud.ntnu.no  Wed Apr 14 09:22:42 2004
From: alexanro at stud.ntnu.no (Alexander Rødseth)
Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2004 15:22:42 +0200
Subject: Pygame
Message-ID: <c5jdv2$s4$1@orkan.itea.ntnu.no>

Hi!

Why isn't Pygame a part of Python?

Cheers,
   Alexander R?dseth




From timr at probo.com  Fri Apr  2 18:36:29 2004
From: timr at probo.com (Tim Roberts)
Date: Fri, 02 Apr 2004 15:36:29 -0800
Subject: address a port
References: <9eabe547.0403232100.501b8bbe@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.327.1080119662.742.python-list@python.org>
	<9eabe547.0403242038.4e453ae3@posting.google.com>
	<lqm760lu7m8jh9277s4l49ch2h78ksansb@4ax.com>
	<k7p760lrq00hugiebrob70a8c77843ukg3@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <2ptr6098oj0kih7b215lfrs8hng2177oqd@4ax.com>

Dennis Lee Bieber <wlfraed at ix.netcom.com> wrote:

>On Thu, 25 Mar 2004 23:34:08 -0800, Tim Roberts <timr at probo.com>
>declaimed the following in comp.lang.python:
>
>
>> For the 16-bit systems (Win98 and Win95), you can use the VERY handy
>> ctypes.py module to call the inp/inpw/inpd/outp/outpw/outpd APIs in
>> MSVCRT.DLL.
>>
>	Pardon? W9x /is/ 32-bit... The last 16-bit was WfW3.11

You have been seduced by Microsoft's marketing.

I put it the way I did partly to be a smart-aleck, but what I said is
largely true.  The core of Windows 98 is not substantially different from
Windows for Workgroups plus Win32s.  USER and GDI (and GDI drivers, like
displays and printers) are still 16-bit DLLs.  When a 32-bit process calls
a USER or GDI API, it thunks to the 16-bit side to execute.

> Oh, and ME is also a W9x variant.

Yes, a very slightly modified version of Win98SE, and not necessarily
improved: in my opinion, Win98SE was the best of that product line.

>	But yes, the NON-NT systems, to support old MS-DOS programs and
>games, did allow applications to do direct hardware port addressing.

There's more to it than that.  Display drivers in 95/98/ME are plain,
ordinary, user-mode, 16-bit DLLs.  In order to allow display drivers to
work, the system MUST allow user-mode processes to touch I/O ports.

>There are a number of library/driver utilities around that allow NT
>systems to access the ports -- with the overhead, usually, of DLL calls.

Yes, PLUS a transition to kernel-mode and back for each transfer.  It is
painful.  There are also a couple of slimy drivers that alter the I/O port
permissions mask, thereby eliminating the kernel-mode transition, but they
rely on undocumented structures.
-- 
- Tim Roberts, timr at probo.com
  Providenza & Boekelheide, Inc.


From nospam at nospam.com  Mon Apr 12 13:31:19 2004
From: nospam at nospam.com (Mark Tolonen)
Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2004 10:31:19 -0700
Subject: Problem with dates and daylight savings...
References: <c5ebq7$nls$1@cronkite.cc.uga.edu>
Message-ID: <c5ejpa$vh6$1@news01.intel.com>

"John Taylor" <john at spock.fcs.uga.edu> wrote in message
news:c5ebq7$nls$1 at cronkite.cc.uga.edu...
> I was wondering if some one could explain this anomaly.  I wrote a program
to add/subtract
> dates.  For example,
>
> ./ComputeDay.py 2004/04/12 -7 %Y/%m/%d
> 2004/04/05
>
> Here is the anomaly....
> ./ComputeDay.py 2004/04/12 -8 %Y/%m/%d
> 2004/04/03
>
> I would have thought this would have returned the 4th.  I have a feeling
that daylight savings
> has something to do with this, as the time changed on the 3rd.
> Can someone explain this?  How can I correct this problem?
>
> ./ComputeDay.py 2004/04/12 -9 %Y/%m/%d
> 2004/04/02
>
>
>
> Thanks,
> -John
>
>
> Here is the code:
>
> #!/usr/bin/env python2
>
> ##
> ## ComputeDay.py
> ## John Taylor, Apr 12, 2004
> ##
>
> import time
> import sys
>
>
############################################################################
>
> def Usage():
> print
> print "Usage: %s [ t1 ] [ n ] [ format string ]" % sys.argv[0]
> print "Given arguments t1 and n, where n is a positvie or negative
number,"
> print "return the date +/- t1"
> print """format should be a date format string, such as: %Y/%m/%d"""
> print "See the man page for strptime for formatting options"
> print
> print "Example:", sys.argv[0], "2004/03/01 -1 %Y/%m/%d"
> print
> sys.exit()
>
>
>
############################################################################
>
> def main():
> if len(sys.argv) != 4:
> Usage()
>
> fmt = sys.argv[3]
>
> try:
> t1 = time.strptime(sys.argv[1], fmt)
> except ValueError, e:
> print "Error for t1: ", e
> return
>
> try:
> n = int(sys.argv[2])
> except ValueError, e:
> print "Error for n: ", e
> return
>
> oneday = 60 * 60 * 24 * 1.0
> diff = time.mktime(t1) + (n * oneday)
> diff = time.localtime(diff)

When crossing a daylight savings boundary an hour is added or subtracted.
If you display diff at this point, you can see the error:

>>> diff
(2004, 4, 3, 23, 0, 0, 5, 94, 0)

It is 2004/4/3 11:00pm instead of 2004/4/4 12:00am.

One thing the time.mktime() will do is normalize an invalid date/time
specification.  In C it will correct the structure passed to it, but in
Python you have to call time.localtime() to see the correction.  If you
subtract the number of days directly from the date field the time will be
corrected for you.  Example:

>>> t1 = list(time.strptime("2004/4/12","%Y/%m/%d"))
>>> t1
[2004, 4, 12, 0, 0, 0, 0, 103, -1]        # 2004/4/12, 103rd day of year,
DST unknown
>>> t1[2] -= 8
>>> t1
[2004, 4, 4, 0, 0, 0, 0, 103, -1]         # 2004/4/4, invalid weekday and
yearday, DST unknown
>>> time.localtime(time.mktime(t1))  # mktime normalizes values
(2004, 4, 4, 0, 0, 0, 6, 95, 0)            # 95th day of year, standard time

>>> t1[2] -= 8      # another 8 days earlier
>>> t1
[2004, 4, -4, 0, 0, 0, 0, 103, -1]        # date, weekday, yearday invalid.
DST unknown
>>> time.localtime(time.mktime(t1))   # normalize
(2004, 3, 27, 0, 0, 0, 5, 87, 0)          # 2004/3/27, 87th day of year,
standard time.

Mark

>
> try:
> result = time.strftime(fmt, diff)
> except ValueError, e:
> print "Error for result: ", e
> return
>
> print "%s" % ( result )
>
>
############################################################################
>
> main()
>
>
> -- end of code
>




From kfast at poczta.onet.pl  Thu Apr 29 04:36:30 2004
From: kfast at poczta.onet.pl (Jakub Fast)
Date: Thu, 29 Apr 2004 10:36:30 +0200
Subject: sorting a list
In-Reply-To: <kjYjc.18326$Jy3.17150@fed1read03>
References: <f046efac.0403091513.3b392074@posting.google.com>	<17i4tmtsfvae9$.dlg@thorstenkampe.de>
	<kjYjc.18326$Jy3.17150@fed1read03>
Message-ID: <4090BE8E.7090300@poczta.onet.pl>

>>>I want to sort a list.
[...]
>>>But I am actually looking for an output:
>>>['A','a','D','F','f']
>>>
>>>Is there any module to sort a list this way?

Sean Berry wrote:
 >>>>a = ['A', 'D', 'F', 'a', 'f']
 >>>>a.sort(lambda x, y: cmp(string.lower(x), string.lower(y)))
 >>>>a
 >
 > ['a', 'A', 'D', 'f', 'F']
 >
 > this will work too, if lower can come before upper.
 >
 >
 >


If you feel adventurous, try the new sort() in Python 2.4.

Here's the doc:

http://www.python.org/dev/doc/devel/whatsnew/node5.html

Also note that the DSU way will probably be faster than the "general" 
solution (?).

Kuba



From toby at rcsreg.com  Fri Apr  9 11:14:36 2004
From: toby at rcsreg.com (Tobiah)
Date: Fri, 09 Apr 2004 15:14:36 GMT
Subject: regex help for a newbie
In-Reply-To: <c4rkh6$2kr4f5$2@ID-165840.news.uni-berlin.de>
References: <c4rkh6$2kr4f5$2@ID-165840.news.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <add692e4c16a22f87a90f4041468bc73@news.teranews.com>

> 
> I have the following string in my program:
> 
>   string= "aaa%(BBB%(CCC)BBB)aaa%(DDD)aaa"
> 
> Now I need to extract the parts that are enclosed in %().


#!/usr/bin/python

### I realize that this will not serve you in all of the cases
### that you are likely to need to handle, but just to show
### that the case that you mention can be handled with regular
### expressions, I submit the following:

import re

string = "aaa%(BBB%(CCC)BBB)aaa%(DDD)aaa"

m = re.search('([^%]*)%\(([^%]*)%\(([^)]*)\)([^)]*)\)([^)]+)%\(([^)]*)\)(.*)', string)

print (m.groups())


### This yields:
###
### ('aaa', 'BBB', 'CCC', 'BBB', 'aaa', 'DDD', 'aaa')
###
###
###
### Tobiah




From jcarlson at uci.edu  Mon Apr  5 19:23:13 2004
From: jcarlson at uci.edu (Josiah Carlson)
Date: Mon, 05 Apr 2004 16:23:13 -0700
Subject: Module import problems
In-Reply-To: <30260531.0404051335.27cabd5d@posting.google.com>
References: <30260531.0404041725.746befa0@posting.google.com>
	<DJWdnQdYSrHdVe3dRVn-tw@powergate.ca>
	<30260531.0404051335.27cabd5d@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <c4spvb$ba4$1@news.service.uci.edu>

> I had to resort to "from login import *" in main.py and then "import
> wx" (and other modules like urllib/webbrowser etc) in login.py and it
> all seems to work.

Sounds ugly.  I would stick with...

#in main.py
import login
import wx

#in login.py and others...
import wx


> I didn't occur to me that I'd have to import the modules used in each
> module file, I thought it would work just from the parent (main.py)
> file.

You were misunderstanding modules, namespaces, etc.


> I've also stopped myself from calling classes instead of defs (I had
> the whole class in the __init__ def previously) and removed most of my
> global variables.

What do you mean "calling classes"?  Show an example of what you were 
doing before, and what you are doing now, and I'm sure someone will tell 
you which is more "Pythonic" and/or which is a better design.


> Now I have twelve 1-6Kb files like login.py, plus an 18Kb main.py,
> instead of one 38Kb main.py to grep through!
> 
> So it was worth the struggle to clean up a bit....

Congrats.

  - Josiah


From rmb25612 at yahoo.com  Mon Apr 12 15:58:06 2004
From: rmb25612 at yahoo.com (Richard James)
Date: 12 Apr 2004 12:58:06 -0700
Subject: pythonwin crash (used to work) - please help quick.
References: <5Reec.62668$Id.61067@news-binary.blueyonder.co.uk>
	<mailman.537.1081743469.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<c5dp0j$2egt$1@news.wplus.net>
Message-ID: <2c60f0e0.0404121158.1b79a3fc@posting.google.com>

"Stevie_Mac" <no.email at please.com> wrote in message news:<c5dp0j$2egt$1 at news.wplus.net>...
> I think seen somthing like this on net somewhere when i was searching.
> 
> So if I understand this, a python GUI can't debug a script that uses code
> from any other GUI implementation (like wx for example)?
> 
> If so, dang! Whats my options - different IDE - or - no debug!
> 
> wait, im sure when I tried to run the script direct (through python and
> pythonw) it still bombed - but in pyShell it didn't - hows that?
> 
> Stevie_Mac :confused:
> 

If you are still desperate and can't find something and if you don't
mind using old fashioned print statements to debug your code. I like
to use the SciTE editor.

http://www.scintilla.org/SciTE.html

A nice version by Bruce Dodson with Windows Installer and extra tools.
http://gisdeveloper.tripod.com/scite.html

You enter your code in one panel, press F5 to run, and Scite captures
the program's print statement output and Python errors in a second
panel.
Edit code errors and repeat. Note: Press Shift F5 to clear output
panel.

-- R.J.


From python at rcn.com  Thu Apr 15 22:03:36 2004
From: python at rcn.com (Raymond Hettinger)
Date: 15 Apr 2004 19:03:36 -0700
Subject: Automatic, portable optimization of global access
References: <5d83790c.0404150721.46a3b5d0@posting.google.com>
	<7xvfk17zeg.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <5d83790c.0404151803.598c1807@posting.google.com>

[Raymond Hettinger]
> > FWIW, I've posted a brief, but powerful recipe for a bytecode
> > optimization that saves known globals as constants


[Paul]
> This looks important and will clean up a lot of code, but what happens
> if the function calls exec or eval, or assigns something into
> globals(), or whatever?

Quoth the recipe:

""" Binding should be applied selectively to those functions where
speed is important and dynamic updates are not desired (i.e. the
globals do not change). In more dynamic environments, a more
conservative approach is to set builtin_only to True so that only the
builtins get optimized (this includes functions like len(), exceptions
like IndexError, and constants like True or False).
"""


Raymond


From luis_ at iname.com  Thu Apr  8 19:05:40 2004
From: luis_ at iname.com (Lupe)
Date: Fri, 09 Apr 2004 00:05:40 +0100
Subject: maximum length of a list & tuple
Message-ID: <c54lq3$2pe1sf$1@ID-202776.news.uni-berlin.de>

hi,

I'm finishing a small program which uses recursion for less than 100 levels.

Each time the function is called, it compares an element of a list (which is
a list too) to other elements, which all amounts to millions of
comparisons.

The program is working for short lists but not for longer ones.  I think
there are two possible problems:  either disk space is not enough to save
lists as the program is executed or there is a finite manageable list
lenght that is reached by the program.

hence my question:

is there a limit? which one? I'm using list.append()
what about for tuples?

I'll rewrite that part of the code and will overcome the problem, since I
only need a few elements of the list generated, but I'm still curious about
the answers

Thanks in advanve

Lupe


From james at ractive.ch  Thu Apr 15 15:12:15 2004
From: james at ractive.ch (Jean-Pierre Bergamin)
Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2004 21:12:15 +0200
Subject: Socket error: 10053 software caused connection abort
References: <c5kc37$kco$1@newshispeed.ch>
	<407eda4e$0$576$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>
Message-ID: <c5mmqf$6mg$1@newshispeed.ch>

Hi Irmen

>> I'm getting an error on Windows XP when I send big data chunks over
>> a socket connection. The exception I get is: "socket.error: (10053,
>> 'Software caused connection abort')"
>> This happens in the socket.recv function.
>
> I have the same error here, and it is NOT because of a bug in
> Windows' TCP stack. (even though the problem does not occur on Linux).
>
> The problem is in your code.
>
> You are receiving chunks of data like this:

> [....]

> But this code is flawed: recv() CAN return less than block_size,
> *even* if there is more data to be read on the socket.
>
> So, you should not check if the length of the received chunk
> is less than the length argument passed to recv().
>
> Instead, you should count the total number of bytes you
> received and check that with the expected total amount.

But how can I know the amout of data I will receive? There's no way to do
that, since it's totally random how large the sent data will be.

Could you show me how you did it?


Thanks

James




From tzot at sil-tec.gr  Wed Apr 21 08:05:00 2004
From: tzot at sil-tec.gr (Christos TZOTZIOY Georgiou)
Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2004 15:05:00 +0300
Subject: CamelCase versus wide_names (Prothon)
References: <UHxfc.9323$dZ1.3740@fed1read04>
	<407ec022$0$54153$1b2cd167@news.wanadoo.nl>
	<roy-C4FD90.13444715042004@reader2.panix.com>
	<b9Afc.9345$dZ1.7703@fed1read04>
Message-ID: <geoc80tveo7uja595bti95q0dlslsjmcq5@4ax.com>

On Thu, 15 Apr 2004 11:05:29 -0700, rumours say that "Mark Hahn"
<mark at prothon.org> might have written:

>Users on the Prothon mailing list were asking me (I'm the BDFL there)

If I may add a humourous note: you're the BCPFL of Prothon (Benevolent
Council President For Life), since, in the few months that Prothon
exists, you probably have asked the opinion of your current and
potential users more times than Guido did in the whole Python's
existence... Prothon is not a dictatorship for sure :)

Seriously: It's good that you want to please as many as you can, and I
am sure --without checking-- that initially Guido did that too for
Python; I'm also sure that this process led him to many decisions that
he later regretted.  I can guess that there are matters over which you
don't bother deciding (eg identifier case), but you'll have to be more
firm and decisive, I hope you know that...
-- 
TZOTZIOY, I speak England very best,
Ils sont fous ces Redmontains! --Harddix


From andymac at bullseye.apana.org.au  Wed Apr  7 09:52:18 2004
From: andymac at bullseye.apana.org.au (Andrew MacIntyre)
Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2004 23:52:18 +1000 (EST)
Subject: python thread scheduler?
In-Reply-To: <pan.2004.04.07.10.19.01.609000@project2501.cor>
References: <pan.2004.04.07.10.19.01.609000@project2501.cor>
Message-ID: <20040407234459.F4163@bullseye.apana.org.au>

On Wed, 7 Apr 2004, project2501 wrote:

> this suggests to me that the barrier i'm hitting is the python thread
> schedular, not the server software being tested.

As Python uses native OS threads, it doesn't have its own thread
scheduler.

What you might be seeing is an effect of the number of bytecode
instructions executed between the Global Interpreter Lock (GIL) being
released/reacquired by a particular thread - see sys.setcheckinterval().

--
Andrew I MacIntyre                     "These thoughts are mine alone..."
E-mail: andymac at bullseye.apana.org.au  (pref) | Snail: PO Box 370
        andymac at pcug.org.au             (alt) |        Belconnen  ACT  2616
Web:    http://www.andymac.org/               |        Australia



From noemail at noemail4u.com  Wed Apr 14 07:36:18 2004
From: noemail at noemail4u.com (Dang Griffith)
Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2004 11:36:18 GMT
Subject: Best IDE?
References: <c5bg1k$25vq$1@news.wplus.net>	<4ace7f9f.0404111147.3120288a@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.543.1081755983.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<Z2Wec.22209$8V.18569@newssvr27.news.prodigy.com>
Message-ID: <ad2a0ff0939b8226ed28f707af136431@news.teranews.com>

On Tue, 13 Apr 2004 18:11:05 GMT, asdf sdf <asdf at asdf.com> wrote:

...
>Check out Visual SlickEdit from Slickedit.com.
>
>I would say this is an editor rather than an IDE.  But it is certainly 
>an IDE if vi is one.
>
>It emulates several other editors, including vi.  It can generate tag 
>libraries, supporting autocomplete and function help for numerous 
>languages with syntax coloring.  It can run build scripts.  Available on 
>multiple platforms.  It is scriptable and extensible.
>
>Too many features to mention.  If anyone can suggest a tool that is as 
>powerful, that is not specific to a single language, please mention it.
>
>Python, Javascript, HTML, C, C++, Perl, Java, TCL, ksh, bsh, COBOL, 
>CFML, PL/SQL, PHP, Fortran, ADA ...
>
>It must have support for 50 languages.

CodeWright, now available from Borland.  AFAIK, it's feature
compatible with Visual SlickEdit, though I think it's available 
only on multiple Windows platforms.  ;-)
    --dang


From lbates at swamisoft.com  Tue Apr 27 10:16:13 2004
From: lbates at swamisoft.com (Larry Bates)
Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2004 09:16:13 -0500
Subject: How Would You Do: Parsing and Expression Evaluation
References: <108rren1js1hn71@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <YeadndiAMLu29hPdRVn-hA@comcast.com>

I may not be understanding what you want to do but
here goes:

You might just want to use eval() function and have
the expression evaluated by Python.  That way your
expression could be any Python expression and you
don't have to parse the expression at all (e.g eval
parses and executes it and returns the value).  You
also don't have to "translate" the formulas.  They
are already Python expressions.  Python expression
syntax is pretty much like what you would want.

Larry Bates
Syscon, Inc.

"Al Christians" <achrist at easystreet.com> wrote in message
news:108rren1js1hn71 at corp.supernews.com...
> I've got an idea for an application, and I wonder how much of what it
> takes to create it is available in open source python components.
>
> My plan is this -- I want to do a simple spreadsheet-like application:
> I've used a wxGrid, so I expect that wxPython will do fine for the user
> interface.   The spreadsheet can be organized vertically, one item per
> line.  It might need no more than 100 rows or so.  On each line, the
> user will enter in one column an item (variable) name and, in another
> column, a formula or  expression for computing the item's value.  A
> third column will show the computed value.   There will usually be some
> circular references between the items, but their values will converge
> quickly with repeated evaluation.
>
> The final feature is a button that the user can click when they have the
> sheet set up correctly -- it will translate the formulas into simple C
> and python code to perform the same calculations as the spreadsheet.
>
> The formulas should be pretty easy -- add, subtract, multiply, divide,
> log, exponential,  and perhaps some user-defined functions.
>
> Are there any off-the-shelf python libraries that would make this kind
> of app much easier?  I don't have any special experience related to such
> things, so I surely don't want to re-invent the wheel out of pure
> ignorance -- should I try the parsing tools in the standard python
> library, or will something else work better for me?
>
> TIA for any advice,
>
>
> Al




From peter at engcorp.com  Sat Apr 17 12:39:22 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Sat, 17 Apr 2004 12:39:22 -0400
Subject: Creating function object from text
In-Reply-To: <40815ab3$0$16479$61fed72c@news.rcn.com>
References: <40815ab3$0$16479$61fed72c@news.rcn.com>
Message-ID: <LcydnR-zNskkwBzd4p2dnA@powergate.ca>

Edward C. Jones wrote:

> Suppose I have a piece of text that defines a function:
> 
> text ="""\
> def fun(i):
>     return i + 2
> """
> 
> How do I turn this into a function object, f, which can be called or 
> passed around?

exec text

If you need to do this other than in the global namespace of the
module, read up on the exec statement and how you can pass in a
dictionary of your own.

-Peter


From t-meyer at ihug.co.nz  Mon Apr  5 21:10:31 2004
From: t-meyer at ihug.co.nz (Tony Meyer)
Date: Tue, 6 Apr 2004 13:10:31 +1200
Subject: How to do [1]*4 for a tuple
In-Reply-To: <1ED4ECF91CDED24C8D012BCF2B034F1305CE43B2@its-xchg4.massey.ac.nz>
Message-ID: <1ED4ECF91CDED24C8D012BCF2B034F1304677BD5@its-xchg4.massey.ac.nz>

> I'm not sure I understand why [1]*4 and (1)*4 work differently? [1]*4
> results in [1, 1, 1, 1] while (1)*4 results in 4.

(1) isn't a tuple, it's a 1 in parentheses.

>>> (1) * 4
4
>>> (1,) * 4
(1, 1, 1, 1)

=Tony Meyer




From goodger at python.org  Mon Apr  5 14:23:57 2004
From: goodger at python.org (David Goodger)
Date: Mon, 05 Apr 2004 14:23:57 -0400
Subject: query regarding OOP functionality in python
In-Reply-To: <407153BD.9080203@students.iiit.net>
References: <407153BD.9080203@students.iiit.net>
Message-ID: <4071A43D.6050607@python.org>

Vardhman Jain wrote:
 > Could someone tell me, what kind of polymorphisms does python
 > allows?

According to FOLDOC (http://foldoc.doc.ic.ac.uk):

     In object-oriented programming, the term [polymorphism] is used to
     describe a variable that may refer to objects whose class is not
     known at compile time and which respond at run time according to
     the actual class of the object to which they refer.

Python fully supports this definition of polymorphism.  Python also
supports "ad-hoc polymorphism" (a.k.a. operator overloading), and
parametric polymorphism, as described on the FOLDOC page for
"polymorphism".

 > Does it allow multiple functions with same name and different
 > arguments?

No, Python does not support "function overloading".

 > Does it allow multiple functions with same name but
 > different return types.

No.  Python only allows one object to be bound to a name at a time.  A
single function may return multiple different types if it wishes
though.

 > I have tried this with constructors and failed,
 > So I suppose I might need to compile the code or something like
 > that to gain this feature if it exists.

Won't help.  Python is a simple language, with little implicit magic.
There is no support for what you are describing in the language, no
matter how you compile it.

 > I know it allows default values to function arguments but that is
 > not sufficient for my purpose.

You're approaching Python with a C++/Java mindset.  Don't do that.  If
you try Python seriously, you'll find that you don't really need these
features.

If you absolutely must have these features, stick to C++ or Java.

-- David Goodger




From Mike at DeleteThis.Geary.com  Sat Apr  3 18:27:25 2004
From: Mike at DeleteThis.Geary.com (Michael Geary)
Date: Sat, 3 Apr 2004 15:27:25 -0800
Subject: Indent testers needed (Prothon)
References: <Unqbc.131025$cx5.57643@fed1read04>
	<b5rbc.132699$cx5.63133@fed1read04>
	<Xns94C0217D6BF1rzed@63.223.5.95>
	<2Msbc.136673$cx5.2385@fed1read04>
	<c4lsa1$ai6$1@news.service.uci.edu>
	<106tqq5e6gn8aaf@corp.supernews.com>
	<c4nbvg$p6f$1@news.service.uci.edu>
Message-ID: <106ui2vl86a617@corp.supernews.com>

> > I could write a long Python program that uses no functions, classes, or
> > anything else to break it into smaller understandable pieces. Just one
big
> > long piece of code that is indented to twenty levels. While I'm at it,
I'll
> > use variable names that obscure what the code does.
> >
> > Does that imply that there should be a maximum length to a Python source
> > file, a limit on the level of indenting, and restrictions on what
variable
> > names I can use? Of course not.

> You're going a few steps beyond what I was saying.  I stated that it
> makes sense to discourage ugly code.  The code that you are describing
> is functionally impossible to maintain (unless it was generated by
> inlining all module-level function calls, something that you, I, or
> anyone else could technically do, or even write a program to do).  I
> think that by people using Python (or in this case Prothon), by
> definition it is implied that we should be writing maintainable code.

Oh man, you caught me there: I used a strawman to argue against your
strawman! :-0

> Personally, I don't find implicitly continued lines to be more
> maintainable than explicitly continued lines, and because explicit
> continuations (with '\') do the job already, if this were Python, it
> would violate both the "flat is better than nested" and "there should be
> one-- and preferably only one --obvious way to do it" zens.

I don't see how automatic continuation violates "flat is better than
nested". When I use \ continuation in Python, I indent the continuation
lines anyway--I don't usually put them at the same level as the first line.

    foo = \
        bar()

not

    foo = \
    bar()

(Obviously, I wouldn't use line continuation at all in that specific
code--it's just an illustration.)

Python has already broken the "one way to do it" and "explicit is better
than implicit" zens on this anyway, by allowing both explicit (\) and
implicit (parens, brackets, braces) continuation.

> As for whether Mark wants to follow the Zen of Python, that is up to
> him.  However, considering that he's using the c.l.py newsgroup to
> discuss Prothon, using a very large portion of the syntax of Python, and
> has talked about translating a large portion of the standard library of
> Python to Prothon via some sort of automatic method, I would say that
> violating the Zen is a foolish "early optimization".

Mark has talked about dropping \ continuation from Prothon, but your point
about converting Python libraries may convince him not to--or to make sure
that any automatic translator handles this conversion.

Anyway, I rather like the automatic line continuation. It doesn't seem to me
that it would encourage people to write unreadable code when they would
otherwise write readable code, and it seems cleaner than \ continuation. But
I'd be happy enough with either, especially considering that I don't
continue lines that often anyway--I'm more inclined to split up a long
statement when I can.

Thank goodness Python doesn't use curly braces like C and C++. That way we
can argue about spaces and tabs and line continuation instead! ;-)

-Mike




From __peter__ at web.de  Mon Apr 19 10:07:20 2004
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Mon, 19 Apr 2004 16:07:20 +0200
Subject: Tkinter Button command query
References: <bef436e6.0404190527.3d4b2cf6@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <c60meo$c7s$05$1@news.t-online.com>

Paul A. Wilson wrote:

> I'm new to Tkinter programming and am having trouble creating a
> reusable button bar... I want to be able to feed my class a dictionary
> of button names and function names, which the class will make.
> 
> My button bar is implemented a Frame subclass, which takes the button
> dictionary as an argument and displays the buttons on the screen:
> 
> class OptionsBar(Frame):
>    def __init__(self, buttonDict, parent=None)
>       Frame.__init__(self, parent)
>       parent.someFunction()    # This works fine
>       for (name, command) in buttonDict.items():
>          Button(self, text=name, command=command).pack(side=TOP,
> fill=BOTH)
> 
> and then another Frame subclass, e.g. MyWindow, uses the bar as
> follows:
> 
>    self.buttonDict = {'Button1':'someFunction',
>                       'Button2':'otherFunction'}
>    ...
>    myBar = OptionsBar(parent=self, buttonDict=self.buttonDict)
>    myBar.pack(side=RIGHT)
>    ...
> 
>    def someFunction():
>      do button stuff
> 
> My problem is that the Button instances aren't calling the correct
> functions when pressed. Is there anyway I get Button to call its
> parent frame's parent frame's functions? I've tried using
> 
>    self.buttonDict = {'Button1':'parent.someFunction',
>                       'Button2':'parent.otherFunction'}
> 
> but to no avail. Hope my explanations make sense.
> 
> Any suggestions?

Use the function identifier directly instead of a string to identify the
commands, e. g:

import Tkinter
class OptionsBar(Tkinter.Frame):
    def __init__(self, buttonDict, parent=None):
        Tkinter.Frame.__init__(self, parent)
        parent.someMethod()    # This works fine only if parent is not None
        for (name, command) in buttonDict.items():
            Tkinter.Button(self, text=name,
command=command).pack(side=Tkinter.TOP,
            fill=Tkinter.BOTH)

def aFunction():
    print "a function"

class MyWindow(Tkinter.Frame):
    def __init__(self, parent):
        Tkinter.Frame.__init__(self, parent)
        self.buttonDict = {'Button1': self.someMethod,
                          'Button2': aFunction}
        #...
        myBar = OptionsBar(parent=self, buttonDict=self.buttonDict)
        myBar.pack(side=Tkinter.RIGHT)
        #...

    def someMethod(self):
        print "some method"

root = Tkinter.Tk()
MyWindow(root).pack()
root.mainloop()

You can pass self.someMethod around as if it were a function. Python will
take care that the method is invoked with the instance denoted by self.

Note how I changed e. g. Button to Tkinter.Button. As you are already
creating reusable components you should also start to care about namespace
cluttering. If you are too lazy to type Tkinter in full beauty, use an
alias

import Tkinter as tk

and then tk.Button() etc.


Peter

PS: Do us - and yourself - the favour of using *4*-space indents. The more
people use it as a standard, the better you can tuck pieces of code from
different sources together.



From michael at foord.net  Fri Apr  9 10:34:44 2004
From: michael at foord.net (Fuzzyman)
Date: 9 Apr 2004 07:34:44 -0700
Subject: CGI Problems With Xitami
References: <8089854e.0404072356.7f33f440@posting.google.com>
	<bbd8e91077326cb7c368fdc4e47a6909@news.teranews.com>
Message-ID: <8089854e.0404090634.34d3f2b7@posting.google.com>

Dang Griffith <noemail at noemail4u.com> wrote in message news:<bbd8e91077326cb7c368fdc4e47a6909 at news.teranews.com>...
> On 8 Apr 2004 00:56:59 -0700, michael at foord.net (Fuzzyman) wrote:
> 
> >All of a sudden the 'POST' method has stopped working - when I specify
> >'POST' as the method in forms... the CGI gets no data... and I really
> >don't want to use 'GET' as it makes the password visible in the URL...
> >
> >I've looked in the CGI options of the Xitami config and I can't find
> >anything amiss, or even especially relevant. The Xitami docs say
> >'POST' should work fine (of course they don't mention python).
> >
> >Anyone any suggestions or experience.
> >(Yes I've checked the form construction in the hTML templates - it's
> >fine. The values don't even make it to Fieldstorage...)
> 
> Try capturing the generated HTML source and run it through TidyHTML.
> 
> http://tidy.sourceforge.net/
> http://www.w3.org/People/Raggett/tidy/
> 
> It could be something in that page is causing the browser not to post
> the data.
> 
>     --dang

Will try it - Thanks

Regards,


Fuzzy

http://www.atlantibots.org.uk/pythonutils.html


From peter at engcorp.com  Tue Apr  6 06:55:40 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Tue, 06 Apr 2004 06:55:40 -0400
Subject: ANNOUNCE : dataenc.py and Pythonutils
In-Reply-To: <8089854e.0404052348.15e3a04e@posting.google.com>
References: <8089854e.0404052348.15e3a04e@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <XbWdnW_pzooxEe_dRVn-ug@powergate.ca>

Fuzzyman wrote:

> http://www.voidspace.org.uk/atlantibots/pythonutils.html
> 
> Various Python Resources
> 
> Dateutils :
> Version 1.0.2 
> 
> This is a set of functions for dealing with dates - written for a
> little tool called 'Victory Days'. They are particularly useful for
> dealing with appointments - e.g. the second Tuesday in March etc...
> 
> The functions will tell you what day of the week a date is, work out
> the 'Julian day number' of a date is, correctly add numbers of days
> (weeks, months etc) to a date and tell you the number of days between
> a date, format a datestring etc. Full correction for leap years and
> much more.

No tests?  :-(  How do you know it works?

-Peter


From wroozee at hotmail.com  Tue Apr  6 11:05:47 2004
From: wroozee at hotmail.com (Wroozee)
Date: 6 Apr 2004 08:05:47 -0700
Subject: Calling  python module in cgi script
Message-ID: <77516416.0404060705.1f671d90@posting.google.com>

hi,

I am pretty new to python and i came up with this problem. What i'm
trying to do is call a python module from my cgi script, which is
inovked by a html form.

 First the cgi script gets a value from the form and sends it to the
python module which takes that value and processes it and sends the
result back to the cgi script which again processes it and show the
result.How do i do that? Any suggestion is greatly appreciated.

Thanks,
Wroozee

PS: I can post my code if anyone wants to see it.


From project5 at redrival.net  Tue Apr 27 14:47:42 2004
From: project5 at redrival.net (Andrei)
Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2004 20:47:42 +0200
Subject: Trying to write comments after escaping newline
References: <c6m9aq$pd5$1@news8.svr.pol.co.uk>
Message-ID: <25x8uhesk1iz$.1n7qy34n2fdhy.dlg@40tude.net>

p brian wrote on Tue, 27 Apr 2004 19:38:14 +0100:

> Weirdly enough i do not think I have come across this before. Perhaps I do
> not use enough comments....
> 
> mystring = "hello " + someVariable + \
>                  "multiple lines 4 clarity" + \
>                  someothervariable

Concatenating strings is not very efficient, you should avoid it.

> The above works , but if I add comments
> 
> mystring = "hello " + someVariable + \     #comment
>                  "multiple lines 4 clarity" + \      #comment
>                  someothervariable                    #comment
> 
> it stops working because instead of escaping a newline I am now just
> escaping a space or tab.

'\' is not an escape char if it's not inside a string - and it isn't in
this case, since there's no quotes around it. Plus you can't escape
spaces/tabs anyway, since "\ " simply means "backslash followed by space",
which when printed shows up as '\\ '.

In this case it's a line continuation character, meaning that you're saying
"this line ends here, but pretend it continues on the next one"... and then
you try to fool the parser by not making that line end there after all.

A different way to do this could be:

mystring = "hello %s multiple lines 4 clarity %s" % \
           (somevariable, someothervariable)

-- 
Yours,

Andrei

=====
Real contact info (decode with rot13):
cebwrpg5 at jnanqbb.ay. Fcnz-serr! Cyrnfr qb abg hfr va choyvp cbfgf. V ernq
gur yvfg, fb gurer'f ab arrq gb PP.


From ryanlowe0 at msn.com  Tue Apr 27 18:09:00 2004
From: ryanlowe0 at msn.com (Ryan Lowe)
Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2004 22:09:00 GMT
Subject: parallel for loops
Message-ID: <0SAjc.12421$Gd3.3093654@news4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net>

maybe its just me, but the behavior of parallel lists in for loops seems
backwards. why doesnt it mirror parallel assignment? i think tuple-unpacking
should take precedence, but instead iteration happens along the first
dimension and unpacking comes second, forcing the use of zip.

>>> a, b = [1,2,3], [4,5,6]     # a = [1,2,3], b = [4,5,6]
>>> for a, b in zip([1,2,3], [4,5,6]): print a, b

instead of:
>>> for a, b in [1,2,3], [4,5,6]: print a, b     # illegal

im sure there is a good reason why the former was chosen, and i know its way
too late to switch, but i cant think of many examples of when you would use
parallel iteration *without* zip. not even dictionaries since you have to
use .items() anyway (another thing that should be default in my mind). of
course, using zip is no big deal but im just curious, from a design
perspective why the choice was made.




From imbosol at aerojockey.com  Wed Apr 28 18:59:45 2004
From: imbosol at aerojockey.com (Carl Banks)
Date: 28 Apr 2004 15:59:45 -0700
Subject: Is Perl *that* good?
References: <c6ich0$c5mee$1@ID-205437.news.uni-berlin.de>
	<ECCjc.30580$Vp5.25085@fe2.columbus.rr.com>
	<roy-15912E.20355127042004@reader2.panix.com>
	<XwEjc.31513$Vp5.16074@fe2.columbus.rr.com>
	<108v74768o9sb9f@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <60dfb6f6.0404281459.21675af4@posting.google.com>

claird at lairds.com (Cameron Laird) wrote in message news:<108v74768o9sb9f at corp.supernews.com>...
> In article <XwEjc.31513$Vp5.16074 at fe2.columbus.rr.com>,
> Carl Banks  <imbosol at aerojockey.invalid> wrote:
> 			.
> 			.
> 			.
> >If you do stuff recursively (as I often do) or break up code into
> >smaller functions (as I often do) so that the functions with these
> >regexps get called numerous times, it can help performance to move the
> >compile step out of the functions.
> >
> >The point is, the existence re.compile encourages people to make
> >regexp objects global so they only need to be compiled once, when the
> >module is loaded.  Because of this, and especially because regexps are
> >prone to being used in recursive functions and such, it's dangerous to
> >allow them to have state.
> 			.
> 			.
> 			.
> I wrote the subject line for this subthread.  Here's
> my provisional conclusion:  my past attempts to track
> down claims of the "Perl is tops for string-handling"
> sort generally reinforced the proposition that the
> speaker simply meant, "Perl privileges REs" (and that
> the speaker had no familiarity with Python, let alone
> Icon or Prolog).  Now I see there's a likelihood of
> definite attraction to the hidden-variable, dangerous
> implicitness goop so characteristic of Perl.  That's
> good to understand.  Thanks, Carl; good analysis.

In file x.pl:

    sub muck() {
      $_ = "sucker\n";
    }

    while(<>) {
      if (/^abc/) {
        muck();
        print $_;
      }
    }

Command line:

    echo abcdefg | perl x.pl

Output:

    sucker


I had actually thought it restored $_.
It never ceases to amaze me how bad Perl is.


-- 
CARL BANKS


From pedronis at bluewin.ch  Mon Apr 19 09:49:25 2004
From: pedronis at bluewin.ch (Samuele Pedroni)
Date: Mon, 19 Apr 2004 15:49:25 +0200
Subject: [Python-Dev] PEP 329: Treating Builtins as Constants in
 the Standard Library
In-Reply-To: <00cb01c4260d$80b9b120$e841fea9@oemcomputer>
Message-ID: <5.2.1.1.0.20040419154633.02d12be8@pop.bluewin.ch>

At 08:54 19.04.2004 -0400, Raymond Hettinger wrote:
>Comments are invited on a new pep:
>
>         http://www.python.org/peps/pep-0329.html
>
>
>
>Based on feedback received so far, there were several changes to the
>original draft:
>
>* The module is public
>
>* The module name reflects its nature as a bytecode hack
>
>* There is a flag to disable binding
>
>* Added summaries of how it works, when it is called, and the effect on
>startup time (near zero).
>
>* Included a reference to Jython FAQs supporting the means for
>automatically doing nothing in environments without bytecodes.

Raymond, could you  please try to tame your speed obsession without 
devising even more hacks
and pissing in other people's pool.

Thanks. 




From agriff at tin.it  Mon Apr 26 16:17:37 2004
From: agriff at tin.it (Andrea Griffini)
Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2004 20:17:37 GMT
Subject: About generators
References: <peap80pkk0c5a7d9rliq159sbaof2mu5kr@4ax.com>
	<L-6dnRq_ZvsmjBDdRVn_iw@powergate.ca>
Message-ID: <7eoq80ph28cbjj06hp2llab8acnsh2fmnc@4ax.com>

On Mon, 26 Apr 2004 09:42:18 -0400, Peter Hansen <peter at engcorp.com>
wrote:

>Google Groups is always helpful for such questions:
>
>http://groups.google.com/groups?q=integer+range+syntax&meta=group%3Dcomp.lang.python.*
>
>This leads to various threads, such as the "Re: Thoughts on PEP284"
>which had the same proposal as yours and what is, I believe, an
>adequate reason for rejecting it.

Thanx for the pointer, but I wasn't able to find a discussion
about the use of a "normal" range binary operator; I found
things like

    for x in 0<= x < 10:
    for x in 10:
    for x in integers[0,1,...,10]:
    for x in integers[0:10]:

I personally find all those forms not better than (x)range; the
first one looks a test, not a definition of an iteration and in
math it doesn't imply any order, the others are at least as
obscure to me as (x)range.

Something that would be very similar to what is used in math
is probably

    for x in 1...10:

May be it's my math background, but I find things like

    squares = [x*x for x in 1...100]

quite readable

And yes, I also used to write a lot of Pascal code so the ".."
is more natural to me (I've also to confess that I use PERL,
even if this probably means I'll be mailbombed from readers
of this NG ;-) ).

But in math three are used, and the three-dot ellipsis is
already present in Python (even if I've still to understand
what's used for); so asking by using the three-dot one
seemed more correct to me.

To me it's very strange that the "range operator" approach
hasn't been discussed at least as much as those other (IMO)
much more exotic ones. Is this because it would be like
admitting that there is something good in PERL too ? :-DDD

Sure this would leave open a few problems, like how to specify
the step (how about the BASIC "step" ? it shouldn't create
any syntax ambiguity, I suppose) but those using increments
different from +1 are already less "natural", and a more
convolute syntax (range ?) or an explicit "while" could be
acceptable anyway; looping using +1 and accessing by "[-i]"
or "[i*3]" may be is more readable (and is used often in math).

Ok... too much talking for a newbie, I'm back to reading :-)

Andrea


PS: Oh, by the way. Very funny the idea of allowing ++x
    with the meaning it has in Python :-)


From cartermark46 at ukmail.com  Sat Apr 10 08:42:13 2004
From: cartermark46 at ukmail.com (Mark Carter)
Date: 10 Apr 2004 05:42:13 -0700
Subject: Is boa-constructor dead?
Message-ID: <d3c9c04.0404100442.2c1248a3@posting.google.com>

I noticed that boa-constructor has been stuck at 0.2.3 for a long time
now. Is it dead?


From deetsNOSPAM at web.de  Fri Apr  9 13:05:35 2004
From: deetsNOSPAM at web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Fri, 09 Apr 2004 19:05:35 +0200
Subject: regex help for a newbie
References: <c4rkh6$2kr4f5$2@ID-165840.news.uni-berlin.de>
	<yibn05p4oi3.fsf@coxeter.math.toronto.edu>
	<c4v3jk$2nn12a$1@ID-165840.news.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <c56l1g$8he$03$1@news.t-online.com>

> I need to do this by real parsing. In fact the solution from Diez isn't
> enough. I will have to write a much more flexible parser, as I realized.

Why not? If all you need is to extract that parenthesized structure, a
self-written parser should be the easiest. Consider this:

import re

def parse(sg):
    res = []
    for c in sg:
        if c == "%(":
            res.append(parse(sg))
        elif c == ")":
            return res
        else:
            res.append(c)
    return res


def sgen(s):
    rex = re.compile(r"(%\(|\))") 
    for token in rex.split(s):
        yield token


print parse(sgen("%(BBB%(CCC)BBB)"))

> 
> Diez mentioned spark as a parser. I also found yappy, which is a parser
> generator. I have not much experience with parsers. What is the
> difference between these two? When should one use the one, when the
> other?

yappy is a lr(1) parser, and spark is a earley parser. Bont of them are
suited for your problem. 

I personally found spark easy to use, as its very declarative - but I don't
know yappy, maybe thats cool, to.

-- 
Regards,

Diez B. Roggisch


From 7z6fp9202 at sneakemail.com  Tue Apr  6 15:05:58 2004
From: 7z6fp9202 at sneakemail.com (John Houston)
Date: 6 Apr 2004 12:05:58 -0700
Subject: "GLIBC_2.3" problem
Message-ID: <103d4f03.0404061105.2100c38b@posting.google.com>

I freezed a python script "hello.py" on a linux box with GLIBC_2.3.
The frozen
"hello" works good on the same linux PC. But when I tried to run it on
another
linux PC, it said:

"ImportError: /lib/i686/libc.so.6: version `GLIBC_2.3' not found
(required by ./struct.so)"

I checked and found the GLIBC on the 2nd PC is version 2.2.5.
I copied the /lib/i686/* from teh 1st PC to the 2nd, and it didn't
work

Is it possible to solve this problem? Or can I install a GLIB_2.3 on
the personal folder of the 2nd PC (since I don't have the root access
on the 2nd)

Thanks


From alan_salmoni at yahoo.com  Thu Apr  8 07:56:09 2004
From: alan_salmoni at yahoo.com (Alan James Salmoni)
Date: 8 Apr 2004 04:56:09 -0700
Subject: Compact Python library for math statistics
References: <E1B9LoV-0005OQ-00@fatlady.ukr.net>
	<mailman.267.1080904644.20120.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <b68f71a7.0404080356.78027a2f@posting.google.com>

Hi Gerrit,

If you want an object-oriented version, try the SalStat stats module
(salstat_stats.py). Features the descriptives you discussed plus a
range of inferential tests (currently up to and including anova and
nonparametric equivilents). Addy is http://salstat.sourceforge.net for
the entire package. The CVS stats module is a little borked right now
though as I've been making lots of changes, so get the stable
downloadable one.

Alan.

Gerrit <gerrit at nl.linux.org> wrote in message news:<mailman.267.1080904644.20120.python-list at python.org>...
> wrote:
> > I'm looking for a Python library for math statistics. This must be a cl
> ear set of general statistics functions like 'average', 'variance', 'cova
> riance' etc.
> 
> The next version of Python will have a 'statistics' module. It is
> probably usable in Python 2.3 as well. You can find it in CVS:
> 
> http://cvs.sourceforge.net/viewcvs.py/*checkout*/python/python/nondist/sa
> ndbox/statistics/statistics.py
> 
> I'm not sure whether it's usable in current CVS, though. You may have to
> tweak it a little.
> 
> Gerrit.
> 
> -- 
> Weather in Twenthe, Netherlands 02/04 11:55 UTC:
> 	16.0?C Broken clouds mostly cloudy wind 4.5 m/s ESE (57 m above NAP
> )


From peter at engcorp.com  Sun Apr  4 18:55:58 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Sun, 04 Apr 2004 18:55:58 -0400
Subject: where download mcmillan installer
In-Reply-To: <c4pt1j$hbk$1@lacerta.tiscalinet.it>
References: <c4pt1j$hbk$1@lacerta.tiscalinet.it>
Message-ID: <qeKdnZrDUPviD-3dRVn-gw@powergate.ca>

Federico wrote:

> Hi, Where can I download the mcmillan installer utility? 
> http://www.mcmillan-inc.com/ doesn't exist anymore?
> Thanks

I'm not sure of the best place, but a Google search led
me to Mark Hammond's page on the starship:

http://starship.python.net/crew/mhammond/spambayes/

Check down at the very end, where he indicates he has a
modified installer which he's "working with Gordon on
rolling these into the official Installer builds, but
for now, you can download my older hacks here" and
there's a link with a download of some kind.  I hope
it has what you need.

-Peter


From imbosol at aerojockey.invalid  Sun Apr  4 20:14:58 2004
From: imbosol at aerojockey.invalid (Carl Banks)
Date: Mon, 05 Apr 2004 00:14:58 GMT
Subject: Python is faster than C
References: <406F0907.96F37EA1@tunes.org>
	<5d83790c.0404032144.482787bd@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <6y1cc.1346$Qv6.482@fe2.columbus.rr.com>

Raymond Hettinger wrote:
> 
> 
> [Armin Rigo] 
>> >>> enumerate([6,7,8,9])         # uh ?
>> <enumerate object at 0x401a102c>
> 
> This got me thinking about how much I would like to see the contents
> of an iterator at the interactive prompt.
> 
> I wonder if the read-eval-print loop could be trained to make a better
> display:
> 
> # rough pseudo-code sketch
> while 1:
>    command = raw_input()
>    result = eval(command)
>    if result is None:
>        continue
>    if is_iterator(result):
>        result, copy = itertools.tee(result)
>        print "<%s object at 0x%8x:" % 
>                (type(result).__name__, id(result)),
>        for elem in itertools.islice(copy, 3):
>            print repr(elem), 
>        else:
>            print '...',
>        print '>'
>    else:
>        print repr(result)
>    _ = result
> 
> 
> # intended result
>>>> enumerate('abcdefgh')
> <enumerate object at 0x401a102c:  (0, 'a') (1, 'b') (2, 'c') ...>
>>>> list(_)
> [(0, 'a'), (1, 'b'), (2, 'c'), (3, 'd'), (4, 'e'), (5, 'f'), (6, 'g'),
> (7, 'h'), (8, 'i'), (9, 'j'), (10, 'k'), (11, 'l'), (12, 'm'), (13,
> 'n')]


I thought this myself, but what if the iterator is computationally
intensive?


-- 
CARL BANKS                      http://www.aerojockey.com/software
"If you believe in yourself, drink your school, stay on drugs, and
don't do milk, you can get work." 
          -- Parody of Mr. T from a Robert Smigel Cartoon


From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Sat Apr  3 14:26:34 2004
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 3 Apr 2004 14:26:34 -0500
Subject: Prothon, metaclasses, Zope [Was: A 'Python like' language]
References: <95aa1afa.0403272243.78d60724@posting.google.com>
	<95aa1afa.0404011933.5cc5e959@posting.google.com>
	<c4j08n$62h$1@panix2.panix.com>
	<95aa1afa.0404022235.3962343@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <c4n35a$7c3$1@panix3.panix.com>

In article <95aa1afa.0404022235.3962343 at posting.google.com>,
Michele Simionato <michele.simionato at poste.it> wrote:
>aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz) wrote in message news:<c4j08n$62h$1 at panix2.panix.com>...
>> In article <95aa1afa.0404011933.5cc5e959 at posting.google.com>,
>> Michele Simionato <michele.simionato at poste.it> wrote:
>>>
>>>My address michele.simionato at poste.it is mostly
>>>a span recipient I don't check often. Rea addresses I check every day are 
>>>michelesimionato at libero.it and michele.simionato at partecs.com
>> 
>> Then please make those addresses readily available by sticking them in
>> your .sig or something.  Having a non-replyable address is about as rude
>> as top-posting.  ;-)
>
>BTW, I tried to send you a message and got this:
>
>- These recipients of your message have been processed by the mail
>server:
>aahz at pythoncraft.com; Failed; 5.1.1 (bad destination mailbox address)
>
>Remote MTA iris2.directnic.com: SMTP diagnostic: 550 5.7.1 Mail from
>smtp1.libero.it (193.70.192.51) refused (blackholed by
>bl.spamcop.net); Blocked - see
>http://www.spamcop.net/bl.shtml?193.70.192.51
>
>So it looks like spam is taking control of our lifes and making both
>of us to appear rude :-/

Ick.  That's odd -- I thought my DNS provider didn't do that kind of
thing, but I'm guessing they've been under such overload that they had
to.  <sigh>  Please forward that message with full headers to
aahzpy at panix.com -- my local spam filters shouldn't trap it.
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

"usenet imitates usenet"  --Darkhawk


From tjreedy at udel.edu  Sun Apr  4 15:57:00 2004
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Sun, 4 Apr 2004 15:57:00 -0400
Subject: Working with a list in a more "pythonic" way
References: <20040404124833458+0200@news.rhrz.uni-bonn.de>
Message-ID: <c4ppab$9c$1@sea.gmane.org>


"Nickolay Kolev" <nmkolev at uni-bonn.de> wrote in message
news:20040404124833458+0200 at news.rhrz.uni-bonn.de...
> I would like to find a more pythonic way of solving the following:
...
> I have come up with the following solution, but I hope some of you might
> suggest a more _functional_ (reduce and map) way of diong it.

For anti-reduce Pythoneers, those two desires are contradictory;-)  My
take: Pythonic is first correct, then about as clear as possible what is
being done and why that gives the correct answer.  Both your table lookup
and Daniels dict lookup are immediately obvious and thus qualify to me.
Both handle the switch between chars and pairs of chars about as smoothly
as possible (except for your unnecessary try: except: as a substitute for
subtracting 1 from the length).

Rewritten, your code is

score = 0
for i in range(len(phrase)-1):
    score += soundScoreMatrix[ord(x[i]) - 65][ord(x[i + 1]) - 65]

Once written thusly, the reduce form is obvious (but obviously not tested):

reduce(lambda score, i: score + soundScoreMatrix[ord(x[i]) - 65][ord(x[i +
1]) - 65],
             range(len(phrase)-1), 0)

but aside from any didactic value this has, I prefer, in this case, the
written-out loop.

Terry J. Reedy






From Mike at DeleteThis.Geary.com  Wed Apr 28 15:52:42 2004
From: Mike at DeleteThis.Geary.com (Michael Geary)
Date: Wed, 28 Apr 2004 12:52:42 -0700
Subject: Path ... where is my application's home dir?
References: <mailman.81.1083164606.25742.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <10902sbs668i57@corp.supernews.com>

Tim Golden wrote:
> The usual way to [get the application data folder] on Windows
> is to use the winshell functions from pywin32:
>
> <code>
> from win32com.shell import shell, shellcon
> print shell.SHGetPathFromIDList (
>   shell.SHGetSpecialFolderLocation (0, shellcon.CSIDL_APPDATA)
> )
> </code>
>
> which, on my machine, gives:
>
> C:\Documents and Settings\goldent\Application Data
>
> Conventionally, one creates a subdirectory of that
> directory, named after your application, and puts
> .ini files and so on in there. This seems to be the way
> Microsoft has gone (thank goodness) and away from
> the registry.

Yes, that is the right place for a Windows application to store its data,
with one caveat. On a system that uses a "roaming profile" as used in some
corporate settings, the entire Application Data folder gets copied down from
a server when the user logs in, and copied back up to the server when the
user logs out. So, this folder is the right place for small things like
settings files, but not for large amounts of data that should be kept on the
local machine.

There is another folder, the local application data folder, where large
files should be kept. For example, Outlook and Outlook Express keep their
databases in the local application data folder. You can get the path to this
folder with the same code as above by changing CSIDL_APPDATA to
CSIDL_LOCAL_APPDATA.

However, Win98/Me/NT4 do not support CSIDL_LOCAL_APPDATA, so you'll need to
check for an error return and fall back to CSIDL_APPDATA on those system. (I
don't know how SHGetSpecialFolderLocation indicates an error--the docs don't
say--maybe it raises an exception or returns an error value?)

-Mike




From booyah at ix.netcom.com  Thu Apr  8 20:07:10 2004
From: booyah at ix.netcom.com (Boo Yah)
Date: Thu, 8 Apr 2004 17:07:10 -0700 (GMT-07:00)
Subject: How to define an Interface in Python 2.2.2?
Message-ID: <27085941.1081469230393.JavaMail.root@statler.psp.pas.earthlink.net>

Does Python 2.2.2 support Interface (as PHP 5 does) ?

If so, how can i define it in Py 2.2.2?

Regards,
Booyah



From joewong at mango.cc  Wed Apr 14 23:22:05 2004
From: joewong at mango.cc (Joe Wong)
Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2004 11:22:05 +0800
Subject: charset conversion routine?
Message-ID: <0a9001c42298$d4445d40$7f00a8c0@scl01.siliconcreation.com>

Hi, I am trying to use python to convert UTF8->BIG5 and GB->BIG5 charset. Is it possible and how to do it? From the manual I read something about unicode and locale, but I couldn't get a clear direction on how to make it work.

Thanks in advance,

-- Wong
-------------- next part --------------
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From rick.ratzel at magma-da.com  Tue Apr 13 17:01:21 2004
From: rick.ratzel at magma-da.com (Rick Ratzel)
Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2004 16:01:21 -0500
Subject: Import / export values to/from C program
In-Reply-To: <a5f85bbf.0404131247.1047a7d2@posting.google.com>
References: <a5f85bbf.0404131247.1047a7d2@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <407c5522$0$46509$39cecf19@news.twtelecom.net>

Steffen Jahn wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> I stumbled across Python when trying to invoke *scripts* from C programs. The 
> idea is to set up some variables in the C program, export them, run a Python 
> script, and, after completion, import some variables back into the C program.
> This way, I can keep the C program very flexible for certain types of changes.
> 
> Unfortunately, I can't see an API to export/import an PyObject directly. 
> I see currently only an indirect way: Implement import and export functions
> in C which have to be called in the Python script (import function at 
> beginning and export function at end). Though I would prefer a *direct* access.
> 
> At the moment, I start thinking whether direct access is really better since
> the script needs anyways to *know* of the variables which are available (makes
> not much difference whether variable or function...)
> 
> Anyways, maybe somebody can tell me if such direct access is possible. A kick 
> in the right direction would be highly appreciated.
> 

    Not sure if this will help, but Elmer lets you run your Python code 
from C, where you can pass values back and forth between the languages 
without having to know the Python/C API.  You do have to define an Elmer 
interface file for your Python module though, but its pretty easy. 
There are some examples on the website:

http://elmer.sourceforge.net

    You did touch upon one of the main motivations for writing Elmer, 
and that is to keep the calling C/C++ program flexible for changes and 
prototyping new functionality...which is something Python is ideal for. 
  Since Elmer generates an interface that looks "native" to C, you can 
easily replace the underlying Python code with C/C++ once you are 
through prototyping...if you think it's necessary.


From Mike at DeleteThis.Geary.com  Tue Apr  6 17:14:40 2004
From: Mike at DeleteThis.Geary.com (Michael Geary)
Date: Tue, 6 Apr 2004 14:14:40 -0700
Subject: Missing Win32con
References: <mailman.399.1081284477.20120.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <10767e2faahc3dd@corp.supernews.com>

> I have installed Python and it appears to work. Trying it out on
> some scripts gives me the error, "cannot find win32con"
>
> Can anyone suggest where I can get this file? I am running
> Windows 2000.

Install Mark Hammond's Windows extensions:

http://starship.python.net/crew/mhammond/

-Mike




From richie at entrian.com  Sat Apr  3 04:50:39 2004
From: richie at entrian.com (Richie Hindle)
Date: Sat, 03 Apr 2004 10:50:39 +0100
Subject: ANNOUNCE: 'goto' for Python
In-Reply-To: <rm32k1-nu9.ln1@home.rogerbinns.com>
References: <mailman.210.1080803438.20120.python-list@python.org><c4k82q02qp8@enews2.newsguy.com>
	<mailman.290.1080938442.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<rm32k1-nu9.ln1@home.rogerbinns.com>
Message-ID: <ip1t60pm9gu1ou8r0atn63en2iom91hg7r@4ax.com>


[Roger]
> http://www.fortran.com/come_from.html
> http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?ComeFrom
> http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/CodeDoc/Acme-ComeFrom/ComeFrom.html

Thanks for the references!  It's a bit of an embarrassment for the Python
community that it's taken us so long to catch up.

And it's a bit of an embarrassment for me that I didn't implement "goto
<linenumber>" or "comefrom <linenumber>" - I'll implement those in the
next release.

(Computed and conditional comefroms are already on the list, as are
computed labels, which I'm surprised to se missing from Clark's paper.
His "assigned COME FROM" is almost the same thing, but I found it
confusing - computed labels seem like a much clearer way of achieving the
same thing.)

-- 
Richie Hindle
richie at entrian.com
(I know it's two days since April 1st, but I can't help myself)




From greg at cosc.canterbury.ac.nz  Mon Apr 26 00:46:26 2004
From: greg at cosc.canterbury.ac.nz (Greg Ewing)
Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2004 16:46:26 +1200
Subject: Regexp optimization question
In-Reply-To: <slrnc8ieul.7j7.mlh@furu.idi.ntnu.no>
References: <slrnc8gal3.9da.mlh@furu.idi.ntnu.no>
	<c6a8ku$jga$1@newsreader2.netcologne.de>
	<slrnc8ieul.7j7.mlh@furu.idi.ntnu.no>
Message-ID: <c6i478$c2m4u$1@ID-169208.news.uni-berlin.de>

Magnus Lie Hetland wrote:
> One of the reasons I've avoided existing lexers is that I don't do
> standard tokenization -- I don't partition all of the text into regexp
> tokens. I allow the lexer to skip over text -- somewhat like how
> whitespace is normally handled, except that this can be *any* text --
> and to return the next token that is of any use to the current parsing
> rule.
> 
> But who knows -- I may be able to use Plex anyway.

You should be able to do this with Plex by defining a
fall-back rule that matches any single character and
ignores it.

If you make it the last rule, and make sure it only
matches one character, any other rule that also matches
will take precedence over it.

If you need to match different sets of tokens in
different circumstances, you can do this with states,
and have the parser switch states according to what
it's currently doing.

-- 
Greg Ewing, Computer Science Dept,
University of Canterbury,	
Christchurch, New Zealand
http://www.cosc.canterbury.ac.nz/~greg



From donn at drizzle.com  Thu Apr 22 02:43:08 2004
From: donn at drizzle.com (Donn Cave)
Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2004 06:43:08 -0000
Subject: How to get the ip addresses of a nic
References: <LEfhc.146586$jf4.7761132@news000.worldonline.dk>
	<2e262238.0404211825.2f6231b@posting.google.com>
	<gvGdnVrg-OyO0RrdRVn-sw@adelphia.com>
Message-ID: <1082616185.980821@yasure>

Quoth Rob Nikander <rnikaREMOVEnder at adelphia.net>:
| Justin Dubs wrote:
| >>>>socket.gethostbyname(socket.gethostname())
|> 
|> '192.168.0.18'
|
|
| That always gives me this:
|
|  >>> import socket
|  >>> socket.gethostbyname(socket.gethostname())
| '127.0.0.1'

That isn't your address?

Try something like this -
  t = socket.socket(socket.AF_INET, socket.SOCK_STREAM)
  t.connect(('my.dns.server', 53))
  print t.getsockname()

	Donn Cave, donn at drizzle.com


From usenet at microtonal.co.uk  Mon Apr 12 16:23:58 2004
From: usenet at microtonal.co.uk (Graham Breed)
Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2004 21:23:58 +0100
Subject: String + number split
In-Reply-To: <WSBec.70431$Id.61446@news-binary.blueyonder.co.uk>
References: <2SAec.70005$Id.6002@news-binary.blueyonder.co.uk>
	<YjBec.70215$Id.61871@news-binary.blueyonder.co.uk>
	<WSBec.70431$Id.61446@news-binary.blueyonder.co.uk>
Message-ID: <hIDec.71030$Id.69750@news-binary.blueyonder.co.uk>

Stevie_mac wrote:
> now thats what im talking about!
> note to self, learn reg exp!
> 
> Thing is, dont understand it one bit! any chance you comment it!  (tell me where to go if you want!) I'd appreciate it
> if you could - ta.

Yes, certainly.  Well, where to go would be the standard documentation, 
which you can now get from the command line:

 >>> import sre
 >>> help(sre)
Help on module sre:
...

but in this case, the expression is

\d+$|_

\d matches a digit
+ means match more than 1 digit
$ ensures the number is at the end of the string

| means either \d+$ or _ can match

_ is a literal underscore

All I did then is substitute any matches with an empty string, which is 
the same as deleting all matches.  Then (on the original string) return 
the last match, which will be the number at the end, and convert it to 
an integer.  If the string isn't in the format you said it would be, 
you'll get either an IndexError or a ValueError.

What your code was actually doing is subtly different -- assuming an 
uninterrupted string of letters exists at the front of the string, and 
anything that isn't alphabetic before the number starts.  The other 
things people are suggesting are better tailored for this problem.  The 
expression(s) you should use depend on the exact problem you're trying 
to solve.


                 Graham


From hjwidmaier at web.de  Sat Apr  3 15:32:17 2004
From: hjwidmaier at web.de (Hans-Joachim Widmaier)
Date: Sat, 03 Apr 2004 22:32:17 +0200
Subject: gettext and the interpreter
Message-ID: <pan.2004.04.03.20.32.16.832647@web.de>

Recently I wanted to do some debugging using one module of my first
Python program using the gettext module. I just didn't find a way to
disable the interpreter binding the last result to _, which ought to
be (and stay) a function.

Anybody got an idea how to do it?

Hans-Joachim


From simoninusa2001 at yahoo.co.uk  Tue Apr 13 14:21:04 2004
From: simoninusa2001 at yahoo.co.uk (simo)
Date: 13 Apr 2004 11:21:04 -0700
Subject: mcmillan installer
References: <mailman.575.1081855698.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<KzSec.628$2e6.535@lakeread01>
Message-ID: <30260531.0404131021.7eb68543@posting.google.com>

I've mirrored the last 3 versions I could find at home (5beta5 for
Win/UNIX and 5b4 for Win) at http://www.the-jedi.co.uk/comps/downloads

I'd really like to know what happened, I heard that Gordon had some
problems with his hosts being taken over, but now his domain seems to
have expired too. I hope he's OK.

I don't know if he's thought of using Sourceforge.net or even
BitTorrent, I think my bandwidth quota can cope for now.

Personally I prefer Installer to py2exe, mainly because of --onefile
and --upx and of course, it works with Linux too!


From peter at engcorp.com  Mon Apr 12 17:33:04 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2004 17:33:04 -0400
Subject: I am puzled about numbers
In-Reply-To: <c5f1pj$ddb$0@216.39.172.122>
References: <107lvs6mree8pee@corp.supernews.com> <c5f1pj$ddb$0@216.39.172.122>
Message-ID: <86Gdnd9CWrGNlubdRVn-gw@powergate.ca>

Bengt Richter wrote:

> On Mon, 12 Apr 2004 13:43:42 -0700, "A Evans" <ae> wrote:
> 
>>Hello I came across an interesting loop in math today
>>To me its interesting anyway I don't know if it will interest you
[snip]
>>I guess that just goes to show nine is a universal number
>>or am I just completely insane and everyone knows this already
> 
>  1: 7 % 777 => 7
>  2: 77 % 777 => 77
>  3: 777 % 777 => 0
>  4: 7777 % 777 => 7
>  5: 77777 % 777 => 77
>  6: 777777 % 777 => 0
>  7: 7777777 % 777 => 7
>  8: 77777777 % 777 => 77
>  9: 777777777 % 777 => 0
> 
> Careful not to jump to conclusions ;-)

So what?  Everyone knows that 7 is also a universal number!  ;-)

-Peter


From plastic"no-spam-pls" at xsintrk.net  Thu Apr 15 17:29:29 2004
From: plastic"no-spam-pls" at xsintrk.net (jeff)
Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2004 21:29:29 GMT
Subject: newbie question
References: <Xns94CCA389D3DA0plasticnospamplsxsin@216.77.188.18>
	<c5mtsl$dns$2@absinth.dialog.net.pl>
Message-ID: <Xns94CCA82D89C84plasticnospamplsxsin@216.77.188.18>

Krzysztof Stachlewski <stach at fr.USUN.pl> wrote in
news:c5mtsl$dns$2 at absinth.dialog.net.pl: 

> jeff wrote:
> 
>> ex:
>> 
>> a = "text str"
>> if a == "text str": print a
>> 
>> why doesn't that work?  i couldn't find much help about variable
>> types in the manual, does it need a property like a.text?
> 
> It works - at least on my computer.
> That is: it prints "text str" to the console.
> What did you expect it to do?
> 
ok this is the bit i'm working with, i'm tinkering with sockets.
when the recieved text == kill, i want the socket to close.  actually, the 
example i posted worked for me too, but i don't understand why this 
doesn't.

while 1:
	sdata = s.recv(1024)
	if not sdata: break
	if sdata == "kill": s.close()
	print "Recieved:", sdata


From jepler at unpythonic.net  Fri Apr 16 16:27:33 2004
From: jepler at unpythonic.net (Jeff Epler)
Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2004 15:27:33 -0500
Subject: a little math problem
In-Reply-To: <m2n05b7ng5.fsf@mother.paradise.lost>
References: <m2pta7c40a.fsf@mother.paradise.lost>
	<20040416164439.GD26865@unpythonic.net>
	<m2n05b7ng5.fsf@mother.paradise.lost>
Message-ID: <20040416202733.GD3078@unpythonic.net>

25.2 isn't a multiple of .2.  In fact, (126 * .2) appears not to be
(126 * .2) % .2 != 0).  Floating-point sucks.  I'm really sorry about that.

I'm also sorry about getting my answer wrong.  I had it in my head that
divmod() took integer arguments, not floating-point ones.

Perhaps you should use the Decimal package
(http://cvs.sourceforge.net/viewcvs.py/python/python/nondist/sandbox/decimal/),
rational numbers, or scaled integers.  The two problems with any such
approach is that you can't use literal syntax for nonintegers anymore,
and it's slower than floating-point.

Jeff



From martin at v.loewis.de  Tue Apr 20 01:22:50 2004
From: martin at v.loewis.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?=22Martin_v=2E_L=F6wis=22?=)
Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 07:22:50 +0200
Subject: Embedding Python in C
In-Reply-To: <4039221c.0404191921.1384cb9c@posting.google.com>
References: <4039221c.0404191921.1384cb9c@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <c62c33$a93$02$1@news.t-online.com>

youngdubliner at hotmail.com wrote:
> I'm attempting to embedded Python23 in C. 
> However , I  seem to be missing some header files from my PC. 
> Any idea where on the web I could locate the files below ? 
> 
> io.h
> 
> sys/stat.h
> 
> wchar.h

They are provided with Visual C.

Regards,
Martin



From roy at panix.com  Tue Apr 27 20:35:51 2004
From: roy at panix.com (Roy Smith)
Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2004 20:35:51 -0400
Subject: Is Perl *that* good?
References: <c6ich0$c5mee$1@ID-205437.news.uni-berlin.de>
	<iL3jc.232$Yc.2330@news4.e.nsc.no>
	<108q51j4dscn7dc@corp.supernews.com>
	<knbjc.267$id.3998@news2.e.nsc.no>
	<pan.2004.04.26.20.50.19.843510@hotmail.com>
	<87fzaqmm8t.fsf@strauser.com>
	<38ec68a6.0404262308.50029919@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.49.1083084698.25742.python-list@python.org>
	<pan.2004.04.27.18.15.56.169064@hotmail.com>
	<Z_Bjc.1397$ZD3.139@fe1.columbus.rr.com>
	<roy-C1F2BF.19434527042004@reader2.panix.com>
	<ECCjc.30580$Vp5.25085@fe2.columbus.rr.com>
Message-ID: <roy-15912E.20355127042004@reader2.panix.com>

In article <ECCjc.30580$Vp5.25085 at fe2.columbus.rr.com>,
 Carl Banks <imbosol at aerojockey.invalid> wrote:

> It's worse because, unlike most objects, regexp objects are usually
> global (at least they are when I use them).  Moreover, the library
> encourages us to make regexp objects global by exposing the regexp
> compiler.  So even if you personally use local regexps (and accept the
> resulting performance hit), many will declare them global.

I don't see why regexps are usually global.  Nor do I see why exposing 
the compiler encourages them to be global, or why making them local 
should result in a performance hit.

I do a lot of regex work.   I just looked over a bunch of scripts I 
happen to have handy and only found one where I used global regexp 
objects.  In that script, the regexps were only used in a single 
routine, so moving them down in scope to be local to that routine would 
have made more sense anyway.  Looking back at the code, which I wrote 
several years ago, I have no idea why I decided to make them global.


From andrew.henshaw at gtri.gatech.edu  Fri Apr  9 07:29:33 2004
From: andrew.henshaw at gtri.gatech.edu (Andrew Henshaw)
Date: Fri, 09 Apr 2004 07:29:33 -0400
Subject: Bug in struct.calcsize() ?
References: <mailman.471.1081468374.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<107d1efk77l1v3a@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <107d28uc3go6687@corp.supernews.com>

Andrew Henshaw wrote:

...snip...

I see you followed up to yourself with the solution! Now I just need to fix
the bug in my newsreader (knode) that allows these followups to be
scattered about the list, even though threading is turned on and sorting by
subject is specified!

-- 
Andy


From fredrik at pythonware.com  Fri Apr 16 07:10:16 2004
From: fredrik at pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2004 13:10:16 +0200
Subject: Documentation tool for python source code
References: <930ba99a.0404120201.65203953@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <c5oeu5$9sj$1@sea.gmane.org>

"Sridhar R" wrote:

> I am just wondering why epydoc isn't mentioned (or atleast in main
> page) in the docsig section of www.python.org.

the doc-sig page seems to list tools developed by doc-sig members.  you
can find a more comprehesive list of tools over at:

    http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/moinmoin/DocumentationTools

(but that one's not complete either; http://effbot.org/zone/pythondoc.htm
isn't included, for example... hrm.)

</F>






From "Charles Krug" at cdksystems.com  Fri Apr 16 09:19:27 2004
From: "Charles Krug" at cdksystems.com (U-CDK_CHARLES\Charles)
Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2004 13:19:27 GMT
Subject: Passing COM VB6 strings weirdness
Message-ID: <z3Rfc.66372$QQ6.4420@nwrdny02.gnilink.net>

List:

I've a Python COM server that keeps an event logs.

I've been using it from VB6:

logEvent "Message"

The Python side of things looks like:

def logEntry(self, caller = u'Unknown Caller', \
                 message = u'Unknown Message'):
        if self.fileOpen == True:
            return self.__Logger(str(caller), str(message))
        else:
            return -1
        

The which refers back to the base logger class method:

def __call__(self, caller = 'Unknown Caller', \
                 message = 'Unknown Message'):
        self.logFile.write(ctime(time()) + ', <' + caller \
                                       + '>, -- ' + message + '\n')
        return 0
    
When I log certain events from VB, I also display a message box for the
user or for me, depending on the specific message.

If I call messageBox BEFORE I invoke logEntry, all is well.

BUT if I invoke logEntry first, the passed string becomes a literal
zero.

Any thoughts on this?  I'm not certain why I'm getting the returned
value from this at all, let alone why it's being assigned to the
argument string.

Is my code telling Python to alter the value or is this a VB oddity?

Thanks


Charles






From af at faino.org  Mon Apr 12 17:09:38 2004
From: af at faino.org (Andrea Fino)
Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2004 23:09:38 +0200
Subject: embedding python
In-Reply-To: <mailman.552.1081794955.20120.python-list@python.org>
References: <fg6qk1-jac.ln1@netzen.intra.faino.org>
	<mailman.552.1081794955.20120.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <f5drk1-g6j.ln1@netzen.intra.faino.org>

Brad Clements wrote:
> I compiled Python 2.3.2(alpha2) on uClinux and linked it with libxml2 and
> libxslt. This ran on a Arcturus 68K board with 2meg flash and 8meg ram.
> Barely fit, was very slow. We abandoned the platform. I've been promised an
> ARM board with 64 meg ram (uh, that was 6 months ago). Haven't seen it
> arrive yet.
> 
> Anyway, it works.. I just cross compiled as part of the uClinux dev chain.
> You didn't mention which OS you want.
> 
> 
Yeah, you right sorry about that. It's linux in 2.4 version with the 
normal glibc (i don't remenber which version).
Thanks.


-- 
Andrea Fino 8-) - "Sistemi su misura di qualita' industriale"
                   "Handcrafted systems with industrial quality"

[Phone: +39 071 2070104]+[Fax: +39 071 2077919]+[iaxtel:17002876594]
[Web: http://www.faino.org]+[Email: af at faino.org]

-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
Version: 3.1
GCS: d- s: a+ C+++ UL++++ P++ L++++ E--- W++ N++ o? K w--- O M V
PS++ PE+ Y+ PGP t+ 5? X-- R* tv- b-- DI+++ D G++ e* h r y+
------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------


From francis.moore at shaws.co.uk  Thu Apr  1 05:17:51 2004
From: francis.moore at shaws.co.uk (Francis Moore)
Date: 1 Apr 2004 02:17:51 -0800
Subject: Newbie TypeError problem
Message-ID: <cbcc74f8.0404010217.fb4d7a2@posting.google.com>

Hi,

Getting the following traceback from parsing an xml file:

Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "D:\Python23\lib\site-packages\Pythonwin\pywin\framework\scriptutils.py",
line 310, in RunScript
    exec codeObject in __main__.__dict__
  File "D:\Development\OmniForm Converter\OFML to SHF\ListFile.py",
line 74, in ?
    try:
  File "D:\Python23\lib\xml\sax\expatreader.py", line 107, in parse
    xmlreader.IncrementalParser.parse(self, source)
  File "D:\Python23\lib\xml\sax\xmlreader.py", line 119, in parse
    self.prepareParser(source)
  File "D:\Python23\lib\xml\sax\expatreader.py", line 111, in
prepareParser
    self._parser.SetBase(source.getSystemId())
TypeError: SetBase() argument 1 must be string, not member_descriptor

Seems to be failing on the line:

parser.parse(file)

But I can't see what the problem is. The program worked successfully
and I don't remember changing anything major, so I can't understand
what it's complaining about. Looking at expatreader.py hasn't really
helped as my Python knowledge isn't that great yet.

Any help much appreciated.

Thanks,
Francis.


From ae  Mon Apr 12 18:36:08 2004
From: ae (A Evans)
Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2004 15:36:08 -0700
Subject: Random Numbers and a thought
Message-ID: <107m6f0t4i0gnff@corp.supernews.com>

I am looking at building a program in python that takes  computer generated
random sets of numbers and tries to solve the pattern I would like it to
extend into complex math as many random numbers as possible

I guess this is similiar to a key generator but thats not what I am going
for I am not trying to hack software

What complex functions and programming would I need to understand in python
before building something like this

Thank You




From peter at engcorp.com  Sun Apr  4 13:07:33 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Sun, 04 Apr 2004 13:07:33 -0400
Subject: emergent/swarm/evolutionary systems etc
In-Reply-To: <c4pbri$afg$1@hercules.btinternet.com>
References: <c4aeq8$92a$1@hercules.btinternet.com>
	<c4btjr$8il$1@titan.btinternet.com>
	<106um6hcr363u14@corp.supernews.com>
	<c4pbri$afg$1@hercules.btinternet.com>
Message-ID: <dqednXF6-IRI3e3dRVn-ug@powergate.ca>

Peter MacKenzie wrote:

>>You might like "The Outsider's Guide to Artificial Intelligence"
>><URL: http://robotwisdom.com/ai/index.html >.
> 
> Yes. It is interesting.  I've been playing with the idea of graphical
> representations for programming 'phrases' for a while, and the reference to
> LISP brought it to mind.  Although LISP doesn't look that much better than
> Python code, are there any programs out there that let you program, um,
> programs, using various shapes, colours etc?  Just thinking about it brings
> up all manner of difficulties that would be encountered if you tried to
> create such a thing, but it would be nice if there was some immediately
> obvious graphical connection between pieces of code [...]

Using the "G" graphical language of LabVIEW, all code ends up
_literally_ looking like spaghetti...  would that help?  ;-)

-Peter


From wilkSPAM at OUTflibuste.net  Thu Apr 15 16:23:45 2004
From: wilkSPAM at OUTflibuste.net (Wilk)
Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2004 22:23:45 +0200
Subject: CamelCase versus wide_names (Prothon)
References: <UHxfc.9323$dZ1.3740@fed1read04>
Message-ID: <87hdvl2dny.fsf@blakie.riol>

"Mark Hahn" <mark at prothon.org> writes:

> We have agreed in Prothon that unlike Python we are going to be 100%
> consistant in our var and method naming.  We will not have run-together
> words like iteritems, we are going to always have seperated words like
> has_key.
>
> Now we are in the midst of a discussion of camelCase versus wide_names.  So
> far our arguments are:
>
> 1) CamelCase is more elegant, modern, more readable, and more efficient in
> character usage.
>
> 2) Wide_names is cleaner, more readable, compatible with C, which is the
> standard module language for Python and Prothon.  Wide_names is also the
> Python standard.

Before, i used CamelCase, but now i use only wide_name because i find
that capitals letters are a pain for the finger and the wrist.  For
example when you whant to write Q (on querty or azerty keyboard), with
one hand you must make a gymnastic, or you will need two hands.

The best is to try the two very quickly... I've replaced thousand of
lines after it ! But maybe it depends how we use the keyboard...

>
> Of course in the Python world you alread have wide_names as your standard,

Not everytime and i regret...

-- 
Wilk - http://flibuste.net


From lbates at swamisoft.com  Fri Apr  9 10:35:55 2004
From: lbates at swamisoft.com (Larry Bates)
Date: Fri, 9 Apr 2004 09:35:55 -0500
Subject: maximum length of a list & tuple
References: <c54lq3$2pe1sf$1@ID-202776.news.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <nvCdnR2sGtFSKevdRVn-tA@comcast.com>

I've constructed lists with 100,000+ elements and
they have worked flawlessly.

FYI,
Larry Bates
Syscon, Inc.

"Lupe" <luis_ at iname.com> wrote in message
news:c54lq3$2pe1sf$1 at ID-202776.news.uni-berlin.de...
> hi,
>
> I'm finishing a small program which uses recursion for less than 100
levels.
>
> Each time the function is called, it compares an element of a list (which
is
> a list too) to other elements, which all amounts to millions of
> comparisons.
>
> The program is working for short lists but not for longer ones.  I think
> there are two possible problems:  either disk space is not enough to save
> lists as the program is executed or there is a finite manageable list
> lenght that is reached by the program.
>
> hence my question:
>
> is there a limit? which one? I'm using list.append()
> what about for tuples?
>
> I'll rewrite that part of the code and will overcome the problem, since I
> only need a few elements of the list generated, but I'm still curious
about
> the answers
>
> Thanks in advanve
>
> Lupe




From tezt at email.si  Mon Apr 12 16:27:03 2004
From: tezt at email.si (Mitja)
Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2004 22:27:03 +0200
Subject: getting as global as __builtin__
Message-ID: <c5euuf$sg$1@planja.arnes.si>

How to make a variable visible from __main__ as well as all other imported
modules? I.e., how to make it share the scope with __builtin__? Saying
__builtin__.foo='bar' works, but seems messy - foo is far from a built-in
thingy.

Background:
---------------------
I'm writing a web application with a central module and a few peripheral
ones, which provide the content of the web page to the main module. The only
script ever called is main.py, which then makes use of others via import.

All of these modules have to have access to some variables (e.g. HTTP GET
parameters), which are all gathered in a module common.py. Therefore, all
modules "import common".

Thing is, some of these variables are a result of database queries, so the
can take some time to get. I would like to have them computed only once (at
a specific function call) and then keep them somewhere where they are
visible to all the modules throughout the execution of the program. This
way, we come to the problem from the first paragraph
-------------------

Are there better ways of doing it than __builtin__? Or is the entire
approach wrong? Thanks for answers/suggestions,

Mitja




From gerrit at nl.linux.org  Fri Apr  2 06:17:16 2004
From: gerrit at nl.linux.org (Gerrit)
Date: Fri, 2 Apr 2004 13:17:16 +0200
Subject: Compact Python library for math statistics
In-Reply-To: <E1B9LoV-0005OQ-00@fatlady.ukr.net>
References: <E1B9LoV-0005OQ-00@fatlady.ukr.net>
Message-ID: <20040402111716.GA12396@nl.linux.org>

??????? ??????? wrote:
> I'm looking for a Python library for math statistics. This must be a clear set of general statistics functions like 'average', 'variance', 'covariance' etc.

The next version of Python will have a 'statistics' module. It is
probably usable in Python 2.3 as well. You can find it in CVS:

http://cvs.sourceforge.net/viewcvs.py/*checkout*/python/python/nondist/sandbox/statistics/statistics.py

I'm not sure whether it's usable in current CVS, though. You may have to
tweak it a little.

Gerrit.

-- 
Weather in Twenthe, Netherlands 02/04 11:55 UTC:
	16.0?C Broken clouds mostly cloudy wind 4.5 m/s ESE (57 m above NAP)
-- 
Experiences with Asperger's Syndrome:
	http://topjaklont.student.utwente.nl/english/



From shagshag13 at yahoo.fr  Thu Apr  1 06:46:15 2004
From: shagshag13 at yahoo.fr (Shagshag)
Date: 1 Apr 2004 03:46:15 -0800
Subject: Handle multiple cookies with httplib
Message-ID: <409a56e2.0404010346.6da1c2cf@posting.google.com>

hello,

how can i set multiple cookies like :

Set-Cookie: cookiename1=value1; expires=Tue, 31-Mar-09 11:17:43 GMT;
path=/; domain=www.domain.com
Set-Cookie: cookiename2=value2; expires=Tue, 31-Mar-09 11:17:43 GMT;
path=/; domain=www.domain.com

to a httplib.HTTPConnection ?

i used to do : 

  connection = httplib.HTTPConnection(host)
  connection.putrequest('GET', pathn)
  connection.putheader('Cookie', cookie)

also is there any way to view 'connection' in a readable format to
understand how it is build after using many 'putheader' ?

regards


From rmunn at pobox.com  Tue Apr 20 09:19:47 2004
From: rmunn at pobox.com (Robin Munn)
Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 13:19:47 GMT
Subject: Tutorial
References: <c634jv$mp9$1@hermes.p4.net>
Message-ID: <slrnc8a8ri.q72.rmunn@rmunnlfs.dyndns.org>

S?ren Kunst <soeren_kunst at hotmail.NOSPAM.com> wrote:
> hello, i need a good tutorial for Python, nothing for beginners

Beginners at what? Beginners at Python? Beginners at programming?

The official Python tutorial at http://docs.python.org/tut/tut.html is a
good one to start with if you've programmed in other languages before
and want a jump-start into Python.

Other tutorials can be found at:

    http://www.python.org/topics/learn/

Note especially the division into tutorials for programmers:

    http://www.python.org/topics/learn/prog.html

and tutorials for non-programmers:

    http://www.python.org/topics/learn/non-prog.html

-- 
Robin Munn
rmunn at pobox.com


From max at alcyone.com  Mon Apr  5 23:34:45 2004
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Mon, 05 Apr 2004 20:34:45 -0700
Subject: int('2.1') does not work while int(float('2.1')) does
References: <mailman.376.1081213637.20120.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <40722555.66C70D40@alcyone.com>

Vineet Jain wrote:

> int('2.1') does not work while int(float('2.1')) does. If int can
> covert a
> float object then there is no reason why a float string should not be
> converted too.
> 
> When I do int('2.1') I get the following error:
> 
> >>> a = int('2.0')
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
> ValueError: invalid literal for int(): 2.0
> 
> This does not seem very pythonic

There's a fundamental difference between an int and a float.  If the
string you're trying to convert looks like a float, that means it
doesn't look like an int.

With your first example of '2.1', what should it mean?  Should it
truncate, round to negative infinity round to positive infinity, round
to zero, what?  Python can't guess for you, so it shouldn't try.  Thus
it's an error.

-- 
 __ Erik Max Francis && max at alcyone.com && http://www.alcyone.com/max/
/  \ San Jose, CA, USA && 37 20 N 121 53 W && AIM erikmaxfrancis
\__/ If I had another face, do you think I'd wear this one?
    -- Abraham Lincoln


From tismer at stackless.com  Mon Apr  5 17:54:50 2004
From: tismer at stackless.com (Christian Tismer)
Date: Mon, 05 Apr 2004 23:54:50 +0200
Subject: Python is faster than C
In-Reply-To: <c4ouri$9kf$1@news-reader2.wanadoo.fr>
References: <406F0907.96F37EA1@tunes.org>	<c4n9qf$jgq$1@news-reader4.wanadoo.fr>	<c4nctk$pp3$3@news.service.uci.edu>
	<c4ouri$9kf$1@news-reader2.wanadoo.fr>
Message-ID: <4071D5AA.4080200@stackless.com>

Michel Claveau/Hamster wrote:

> Hi !
> 
> Yes, but Psyco is writted in C & Python, and it use an C module.
> Said "Psyco is faster than C", it's like said "Psyco is faster than Psyco".

This is not so much of a contradiction.

First of all, Psyco creates assembly code. Not the fastest,
but it enters an area where Python has no entrance, yet.
So what it does is to produce faster code, although not as fast
as C could, but faster than the existing C implementation
of Python.

Seconde, depending on the algorithm you use, even Python can be
faster than C. For example, a few years ago, I implemented
a fast long integer multiplication in Python. At that time,
CPython still had asymptotic behavior of O(n**2), while
the Karatsuba algorithm I used hat something like O(2**1.53).
The difference showed up with several thousands of digits, but
it was remarkable.

Later on, Karatsuba was built into the core, and it became clear
to me that *I* caused this mess, because I had the chance to
get that algorithm into the core, long time ago. I just missed it.

What I'm trying to say: Finally it is always the algorithm.

ciao - chris

-- 
Christian Tismer             :^)   <mailto:tismer at stackless.com>
Mission Impossible 5oftware  :     Have a break! Take a ride on Python's
Johannes-Niemeyer-Weg 9a     :    *Starship* http://starship.python.net/
14109 Berlin                 :     PGP key -> http://wwwkeys.pgp.net/
work +49 30 89 09 53 34  home +49 30 802 86 56  mobile +49 173 24 18 776
PGP 0x57F3BF04       9064 F4E1 D754 C2FF 1619  305B C09C 5A3B 57F3 BF04
      whom do you want to sponsor today?   http://www.stackless.com/




From fredrik at pythonware.com  Fri Apr 16 13:18:47 2004
From: fredrik at pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2004 19:18:47 +0200
Subject: Learning about dictionaries
References: <b4a8ffb6.0404160850.42c0ccf@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <c5p4h3$aoa$1@sea.gmane.org>

Thomas Philips wrote:
> I'm teaching myself python and in the course of playing around with
> dictionaries, I tried to create the following trivial dictionary
>
> {1:'one', 2:'two'}

that's a dictionary, right.

(to be precise, it's a "dictionary display" which is how you enter
"dictionary values" in Python source code)

> So I entered
> >>> dict(1='one',2='two')

that's not a dictionary, that's a function call.

you're trying to call a function called "dict" with two keyword arguments,
but your keywords doesn't match Python's identifier syntax.

more here:

    http://docs.python.org/ref/calls.html
    http://docs.python.org/ref/dict.html

</F>






From jack at performancedrivers.com  Thu Apr  1 23:50:19 2004
From: jack at performancedrivers.com (Jack Diederich)
Date: Thu, 1 Apr 2004 23:50:19 -0500
Subject: __nonzero__ of iterators
In-Reply-To: <c4gjup$615$1@ttt14.vie.at.tttech.ttt>
References: <c4gjup$615$1@ttt14.vie.at.tttech.ttt>
Message-ID: <20040402045019.GF26450@performancedrivers.com>

On Thu, Apr 01, 2004 at 10:30:10AM +0200, Christian Eder wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> I just discovered the following pitfall in Python 2.3.
> Consider the following code :
> 
> >>> a = {}
> >>> bool (a.keys ())
> False
> >>> bool (a.iterkeys ())
> True
> 

>>> a = {}
>>> a.keys()
[]
>>> a.iterkeys()
<dictionary-iterator object at 0x401973c8>
>>> list(a.iterkeys())
[]

a.iterkeys() is returning an iterator.
list(a.iterkeys()) is returning all of the elements in the iterator (empty)

If you want to test the boolean just use
if (a):
  blah = 1

-jackdied



From tim.one at comcast.net  Wed Apr 21 12:54:14 2004
From: tim.one at comcast.net (Tim Peters)
Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2004 12:54:14 -0400
Subject: python shutting down sloooooooowly/tuning dictionaries
In-Reply-To: <20040421163801.GA13623%till@score.is.tsukuba.ac.jp>
Message-ID: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCIELMKGAB.tim.one@comcast.net>

[Till]
> Thanks for the suggestions but unfortunately I already tried disabling
> gc. It did not have any noticable effect (not that I was patient
> enough to time it) nor did using sys.exit().

sys.exit() doesn't skip cleanup.  os._exit() does, but you use that at your
own risk (it's probably fine, but you've been warned).

> ...
> To give an example of the actual time spans involved: 2-10 minutes for
> running the program and > 30 minutes for shutdown. During that time
> the amount of memory used by python does not seem to vary.

This sounds like the platform C free() falling into quadratic-time behavior.
You didn't say which version of Python you're using, or which OS + C
runtime, and "stuff like that" varies according to both.  This kind of
behavior is generally much rarer under Python 2.3 than under earlier
Pythons -- but if your platform C malloc/free suck, there's not much more
Python can do about that than 2.3 already does.




From rogerb at rogerbinns.com  Sat Apr  3 01:54:55 2004
From: rogerb at rogerbinns.com (Roger Binns)
Date: Fri, 2 Apr 2004 22:54:55 -0800
Subject: ANNOUNCE: 'goto' for Python
References: <mailman.210.1080803438.20120.python-list@python.org><c4k82q02qp8@enews2.newsguy.com>
	<mailman.290.1080938442.20120.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <rm32k1-nu9.ln1@home.rogerbinns.com>

Richie Hindle wrote:
> [Bill]
> > Can you explain to me why you need comefrom? Couldn't you replace
> > "label.failed" with "goto cleanup"? Thanks.
>
> You don't strictly need comefrom, but then you don't strictly need goto
> either.  Use whatever control flow construct fits the problem you're
> trying to solve.

http://www.fortran.com/come_from.html
http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?ComeFrom

Needless to say, Perl has already been there :-)

http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/CodeDoc/Acme-ComeFrom/ComeFrom.html

Roger




From mark at prothon.org  Wed Apr 28 20:47:19 2004
From: mark at prothon.org (Mark Hahn)
Date: Wed, 28 Apr 2004 17:47:19 -0700
Subject: Why we will use obj$func() often
References: <d2Uhc.22272$dZ1.1600@fed1read04> <84Uhc.22278$dZ1.5087@fed1read04>
	<mailman.927.1082665370.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<8AWhc.23114$dZ1.11070@fed1read04> <40883BFE.B381518A@alcyone.com>
	<27_hc.23801$dZ1.2716@fed1read04> <40887145.789A2FE8@alcyone.com>
	<7cki80hj976bia36lhf9er97v073o1pqvm@4ax.com>
	<w8dic.28710$dZ1.11206@fed1read04> <ulXiAls/KH1K089yn@the-wire.com>
	<lkfic.29767$dZ1.17301@fed1read04>
	<donn-66132E.15345723042004@nntp3.u.washington.edu>
	<PLhic.30493$dZ1.22063@fed1read04>
	<c6huj3$c3s3f$1@ID-169208.news.uni-berlin.de>
	<u8zjc.7394$Qy.127@fed1read04>
	<c6ni3j$e0vbb$1@ID-169208.news.uni-berlin.de>
	<5vJjc.13116$Qy.1954@fed1read04>
	<donn-FB76CA.11024928042004@nntp3.u.washington.edu>
	<52Ujc.16275$Qy.3111@fed1read04>
	<donn-CF90D7.14211828042004@nntp3.u.washington.edu>
Message-ID: <cfYjc.17360$Qy.5220@fed1read04>

Donn Cave wrote:

>  When I dream of a better language, it's not pasting new
> gimmicks on Python, it's really a radically different direction.

I've daydreamed the same thing and I've thought a classless language was
radical.  If it turns out to only be a gimmick in the end and not reap the
payoffs I've been daydreaming about then I'll be quite dissapointed.

If you focus on the closure &var then you are missing the exciting parts of
the language picture.  I don't need to ask questions about the exciting
parts.

Can you share some of your daydream ideas?




From rawbobb at hotmail.com  Mon Apr 12 09:26:28 2004
From: rawbobb at hotmail.com (bobb)
Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2004 13:26:28 GMT
Subject: connect with MySQL question
References: <mailman.477.1081484212.20120.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <8Owec.16842$QQ6.8203@nwrdny02.gnilink.net>

This was just recently asked, I believe.
google for mysql client.

<pengz1 at netzero.com> wrote in message
news:mailman.477.1081484212.20120.python-list at python.org...
>
> Hi! All
> I download MySQL to Python interface software and get MySQLdb module etc
installed. But when I start mysqld on XP from c:\mysql\bin (all in windows)
and use following code to connect MySQL it fails
>
> # Database access
> import MySQLdb
>
con=MySQLdb.connect(host="127.0.0.1",port=3306,user="root",passwd="mypasswd"
,db="smalldb")
> Cursor=con.cursor()
> sql_cmd="select * from customers"
> Cursor.execute(sql_cmd)
> results=Cursor.fetachall()
> con.close()
>
>
> It asked for client upgrade. What that mean? MySQL is 4.0
> Anyone can help?
> Thanks in advance.
>
> Regards
> Zhiyong
>
> ________________________________________________________________
> The best thing to hit the Internet in years - NetZero HiSpeed!
> Surf the Web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER!
> Only $14.95/ month -visit www.netzero.com to sign up today!
>




From pythongnome at hotmail.com  Wed Apr 28 08:11:16 2004
From: pythongnome at hotmail.com (Lucas Raab)
Date: Wed, 28 Apr 2004 12:11:16 GMT
Subject: PY2EXE - Strange Things a-Happenin
References: <7490e644.0404271717.28a4c7b4@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <EbNjc.13527$gH6.5933@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net>


"Funduk" <fun.duk at rogers.com> wrote in message
news:7490e644.0404271717.28a4c7b4 at posting.google.com...
> Hello,
>
> So I've been playing with Python and Pygame for a while and I decided
> I wanted to make a real executable so I could send that stuff over to
> my friends to show off my <sarcasm>maad skillz</sarcasm>.
>
> Everything was going great I went and got all the newest software
> (including Distutils and PY2EXE) and read the docs on making a setup
> py.
>
> Following is my setup.py: Sorry if It's a little long:
> ---------------------------------------------------------
> #make standalone, needs at least pygame-1.5.3 and py2exe-0.3.1
>
> from distutils.core import setup
> import sys, os, pygame, shutil
> import py2exe
>
> #setup the project variables here.
> #i can't claim these will cover all the cases
> #you need, but they seem to work for all my
> #projects, just change as neeeded.
>
> script = "cards.py"     #name of starting .PY
> icon_file = ""         #ICO file for the .EXE (not working well)
> optimize = 2         #0, 1, or 2; like -O and -OO
> dos_console = 0         #set to 0 for no dos shell when run
> extra_data = ['readme.txt'] #extra files/dirs copied to game
> extra_modules = ['pygame.locals']   #extra python modules not auto
> found
>
> #use the default pygame icon, if none given
> if not icon_file:
>     path = os.path.split(pygame.__file__)[0]
>     icon_file = '"' + os.path.join(path, 'pygame.ico') + '"'
> #unfortunately, this cool icon stuff doesn't work in current py2exe :(
> #icon_file = ''
>
>
> #create the proper commandline args
> args = ['py2exe', '--force', '-O'+`optimize`]
> args.append(dos_console and '--console' or '--windows')
> if icon_file:
>     args.append('--icon')
>     args.append(icon_file)
> args.append('--force-imports')
> args.append(','.join(extra_modules))
> #args.append(','.join(pygame_modules + extra_modules))
> sys.argv[1:] = args + sys.argv[1:]
>
> project_name = os.path.splitext(os.path.split(script)[1])[0]
>
>
> #this will create the executable and all dependencies
> setup(name=project_name, scripts=[script])
>
> #also need to hand copy the extra files here
> def installfile(name):
>     dst = os.path.join('dist', project_name)
>     print 'copying', name, '->', dst
>     if os.path.isdir(name):
>         dst = os.path.join(dst, name)
>         if os.path.isdir(dst):
>             shutil.rmtree(dst)
>         shutil.copytree(name, dst)
>     elif os.path.isfile(name):
>         shutil.copy(name, dst)
>     else:
>         print 'Warning, %s not found' % name
>
> pygamedir = os.path.split(pygame.base.__file__)[0]
> installfile(os.path.join(pygamedir, pygame.font.get_default_font()))
> installfile(os.path.join(pygamedir, 'pygame_icon.bmp'))
> for data in extra_data:
>     installfile(data)
> ---------------------------------------------------------
>
> I got this from some 'here's how to make a setupfile site'. I started
> using this one after the one I made caused me errors... Unfortunately
> this one does the same.
>
> I'm using IDLE (but I did also try this in the cmd prompt) so I got
> ahead and F5 this setup file and it goes ahead and haks away for a few
> seconds (on my pos pII 450). Shortly I recieve this block of
> statements and errors:
>
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "C:\Documents and Settings\Administrator\My
> Documents\Projects\Pygame Projects\Cards\pygame2exe.py", line 48, in
> -toplevel-
>     setup(name=project_name, scripts=[script])
>   File "C:\DOCUME~1\ADMINI~1\MYDOCU~1\Projects\Python\distutils\core.py",
> line 101, in setup
>     _setup_distribution = dist = klass(attrs)
>   File
"C:\DOCUME~1\ADMINI~1\MYDOCU~1\Projects\Python\Lib\site-packages\py2exe\__in
it__.py",
> line 75, in __init__
>     distutils.dist.Distribution.__init__(self, attrs)
>   File "C:\DOCUME~1\ADMINI~1\MYDOCU~1\Projects\Python\distutils\dist.py",
> line 130, in __init__
>     setattr(self, method_name, getattr(self.metadata, method_name))
> AttributeError: DistributionMetadata instance has no attribute
> 'get___doc__'
>
>
> I looked up the last line in google and found a few posts noting the
> same difficulties and I was led to believe that it was some kind of
> 'mistake'...
>
> ...
>
> needless to say I was confused. I decided I could write a pretty good
> cry for help (including lots of info etc) so I am now asking you for
> help.
>
> All I want to do is make my stupid little program an executable! :)
> HELP!!!
>
> Extra Info:
> Python Version:2.3.3
> Pygame Version:1.6
> Distutils Version:1.0.2
> PY2EXE Version:0.5.0
> OS: Windows 2000 Pro
>
> Thanks in advance!!!

You say you used the command prompt, but in what way?? Did you type in
"python setup.py py2exe"?? Adding the "py2exe" is what tells python to use
py2exe along with importing it into your setup script. You can't run your
setup script using IDLE or the interactive interpreter. It has to be run
from the command line.




From michael at foord.net  Fri Apr  9 04:25:45 2004
From: michael at foord.net (Fuzzyman)
Date: 9 Apr 2004 01:25:45 -0700
Subject: Why Activestate Python ?
Message-ID: <8089854e.0404090025.141f090c@posting.google.com>

Again... a silly newbie question which might have an obvious
answer.... but *why* is their an alternative distribution of python by
activestate ?

Apart fromt he fact that they bundle Mark Hammond's Windows Extensions
with it (in the windows version) - what is to be gained from using
their distributio instead of the 'normal' one ?

Regards,


Fuzzy

http://www.voidspace.org.uk/atlantibots/pythonutils.html


From mark at prothon.org  Wed Apr 21 04:11:52 2004
From: mark at prothon.org (Mark Hahn)
Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2004 01:11:52 -0700
Subject: Dollar sign ($) on foriegn keyboards? (prothon)
References: <mk3hc.13895$dZ1.10823@fed1read04>
	<c62m70$2hu$06$1@news.t-online.com>
	<slrnc89q11.pnv.joe@gate.notcharles.ca>
	<c631kk$9j9$04$1@news.t-online.com>
	<oBhhc.17591$dZ1.14065@fed1read04>
Message-ID: <c1qhc.18439$dZ1.2680@fed1read04>


"Mark Hahn" <mark at prothon.org> wrote ...

> bm = obj..func  # get func from obj and make bound method from obj and
func
> bm = obj$$func # get func from obj and make bound method from self and
func

Don't look to close at the details of the proposal.  People over at the
Prothon mailing list are shooting holes in it as I type.  For example, the
brain-melting double periods and double dollar-signs are already history.




From stach at fr.USUN.pl  Fri Apr 16 15:43:44 2004
From: stach at fr.USUN.pl (Krzysztof Stachlewski)
Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2004 21:43:44 +0200
Subject: Error copying a file
In-Reply-To: <c5p9ph$7h9$1@newshost.mot.com>
References: <c5ka45$c8v$1@newshost.mot.com>
	<c5mbfv$qc4$1@absinth.dialog.net.pl>
	<c5p9ph$7h9$1@newshost.mot.com>
Message-ID: <c5pd2k$bg1$1@absinth.dialog.net.pl>

Stephen Boulet wrote:

  > I'm on win2000. The file is on a CD I burned, and I wanted to copy it to
>  a file name that doesn't have any quotation marks in it. The problem is 
> that I can't reference the file to begin with. The command:
> 
>    shutil.copy2(myfile,r'D:\foo.ogg')
> 
> can't use the string held in myfile, although os.listdir('directory on 
> CD') contains it as the first entry.
> 
> It would be nice if I could referene the file in a way that would not 
> cause the copy command to fail.

Its not a problem with Python, but with the CD-burning software
which allowed for the illegal char in the filename.
Can you open the file using Explorer? Or move it to disk and rename?
That's the best thing you can do about it.

-- 
Stach  Tlen: stachobywatelpl, GG: 1811474
        Jabber: stach at jabber atman pl


From tezt at email.si  Fri Apr  2 08:19:42 2004
From: tezt at email.si (Mitja)
Date: Fri, 2 Apr 2004 15:19:42 +0200
Subject: Travelling salesman variation in python
References: <slrnc6on9h.spl.erlendga@tva.ifi.uio.no>
	<c4jk1t$2k9keu$1@ID-111250.news.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <c4kdj7$nt7$1@planja.arnes.si>

"Diez B. Roggisch" <deetsNOSPAM at web.de> wrote in message
news:c4jk1t$2k9keu$1 at ID-111250.news.uni-berlin.de...
> You could go for local search. First, create a randow tour. Then select a
> neighborhood. Find the local minimum for that neighborhood. Do this as
> often as you like.
>
> A typical neighborhood for tsps are four nodes where two of them are
> adjacent in your tour. Then  exchange the nodes so that they still form a
> tours. If that has less costs, keep it that way.
>
> --n1--n2--
> --n3--n4--
>
> becomes
>
> --n1\/n2--
> --n3/\n4--
>


This is more or less just one of the things you'd do with simulated
annealing. And with such a "randomized" problem, this is certainly the one
and only way to go. If there are no rules defining the structure of the
graph, you can't write an optimized code which takes these rules into
account. Anyway, SA is what you want. Google for it, use it.

Mitja




From michele.simionato at poste.it  Wed Apr  7 13:57:24 2004
From: michele.simionato at poste.it (Michele Simionato)
Date: 7 Apr 2004 10:57:24 -0700
Subject: OFF-TOPIC:: Why Lisp is not my favorite programming language
References: <165b3efa.0403030443.4d591f04@posting.google.com>
	<40460dd5$0$5916$7a628cd7@news.club-internet.fr>
	<d771b842.0403040735.3b5200ae@posting.google.com>
	<e87fc4b0.0403221114.254b7ee5@posting.google.com>
	<d771b842.0404061258.655b8e56@posting.google.com>
	<6in670lrldbjkuujle68a526293j57a7mn@4ax.com>
	<95aa1afa.0404070205.94b32e4@posting.google.com>
	<tyfptakvwrl.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
Message-ID: <95aa1afa.0404070957.5c370a05@posting.google.com>

Jacek Generowicz <jacek.generowicz at cern.ch> wrote in message news:<tyfptakvwrl.fsf at pcepsft001.cern.ch>...> 
> Eh, methinks you posted the wrong link.
> 
> Did you mean to point to this thread containing this post:
> 
> http://www.google.ch/groups?as_umsgid=ad2vzxoq.fsf%40ccs.neu.edu
> 
> ?
> 
> [Summary: Troll comes to c.l.l claiming that Lisp is slow. Challenges
> Lispniks to try to beat C++ on speed on a program that was designed to
> test speed of C++ compilers. Lispniks beat C++ for speed in both
> Common Lisp and Scheme.]

Ick! I had the wrong link in the clipboard! I am using a new machine at
work and sometimes the clipboard surprises me. Anyway yes, I was 
referring to the thread you mention. Sorry about the mistake.

             Michele Simionato


From RobMEmmons at cs.com  Sat Apr 17 07:11:10 2004
From: RobMEmmons at cs.com (Robert M. Emmons)
Date: Sat, 17 Apr 2004 06:11:10 -0500
Subject: Difficulty Finding Python Developers
In-Reply-To: <4080AE97.C4CF0755@alcyone.com>
References: <65cbc3dd.0404140641.3501fde8@posting.google.com>
	<407D6269.3090909@engcorp.com> <40808FF1.7060204@cs.com>
	<4080AE97.C4CF0755@alcyone.com>
Message-ID: <408110CE.7030402@cs.com>


> Note that doesn't mean it's a bad idea to hire a Python expert in order
> to lead a team or make sure that everyone's learning Python properly.

Being an expert is a good thing.  No doubt about that.  As in many 
things however, motivation is a good subsititute -- and possible with 
python itself.

I think I would be more worried about the non-python language things -- 
they are harder to learn and take more time, and are where depth is 
important.  Python itself is easy to learn.  Learning to write CGI 
scripts, using Zope, doing database work, making a web site, using 
wxWindows, etc.  These are more than just Python.  Because of that -- 
the person that's going to do the job is going to need to be an expert 
in some of these areas...otherwise long learning curve.

Rob




From alexanro at stud.ntnu.no  Wed Apr 14 10:14:04 2004
From: alexanro at stud.ntnu.no (Alexander Rødseth)
Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2004 16:14:04 +0200
Subject: Pygame
References: <c5jdv2$s4$1@orkan.itea.ntnu.no>
	<xZydnfgqeaiK3ODdRVn-tw@powergate.ca>
Message-ID: <c5jgvh$2m5$1@orkan.itea.ntnu.no>

> What do you think should be the criteria for deciding whether
> something "is part of Python" or isn't?

I agree that my question was a bit vague, so here's a clarification:
In that connection I meant "included in the standard installation procedure
for the average inexperienced user".


> Keep in mind that your guidelines should be applied somewhat
> consistently to all packages that might be possibly be included.

That's true, but still, there are several other modules, like email,
sound, xml, databases, that could've been separate packages,
but isn't. Why isn't fullscreen graphics considered that important?
This is a riddle to me.


> And keep in mind that no one wants Python to be a 150MB download...

I totally agree with you on that one. :)


- Alexander




From jmdeschamps at cvm.qc.ca  Wed Apr 21 09:36:24 2004
From: jmdeschamps at cvm.qc.ca (jmdeschamps)
Date: 21 Apr 2004 06:36:24 -0700
Subject: Opening MS Word files via Python
References: <7b454334.0404201628.371b9e8@posting.google.com>
	<i7-dnZNwpJ8TfhjdRVn-jg@adelphia.com>
Message-ID: <3d06fae9.0404210536.3f277a37@posting.google.com>

Rob Nikander <rnikaREMOVEnder at adelphia.net> wrote in message news:<i7-dnZNwpJ8TfhjdRVn-jg at adelphia.com>...
> Fazer wrote:
> > I am curious as to how I should approach this issue.  I would just
> > want to parse simple text and maybe perhaps tables in the future. 
> > Would I have to save the word file and open it in a text editor?  That
> > would kind of....suck...  Has anyone else tackled this issue?
> 
> The win32 extensions for python allow you to get at the COM objects for 
> applications like Word, and that would let you get the text and tables. 
>   google: win32 python.
> 
> word = win32com.client.Dispatch('Word.Application')
> word.Documents.Open('C:\\myfile.doc')
> 
> But I don't know the best way to find out the methods and properties of 
> the "word" object.
> 
> Rob

You can use VBA documentation for Word, and using dot notation and
normal Pythonesque way of calling functions, play with its diverses
objects, methods and attributes...
Here's some pretty straightforward code along these lines:
#************************
import win32com.client
import tkFileDialog

# Launch Word
MSWord = win32com.client.Dispatch("Word.Application")
MSWord.Visible = 0 
# Open a specific file
myWordDoc = tkFileDialog.askopenfilename()
MSWord.Documents.Open(myWordDoc)
#Get the textual content
docText = MSWord.Documents[0].Content
# Get a list of tables
listTables= MSWord.Documents[0].Tables
#************************

Happy parsing,

Jean-Marc


From apardon at forel.vub.ac.be  Fri Apr 23 04:46:09 2004
From: apardon at forel.vub.ac.be (Antoon Pardon)
Date: 23 Apr 2004 08:46:09 GMT
Subject: CamelCase versus wide_names (Prothon)
References: <UHxfc.9323$dZ1.3740@fed1read04>
	<6e0680ac.0404211252.7f7b4358@posting.google.com>
	<4086DFA7.9736E7D3@alcyone.com>
	<roy-15454C.18080121042004@reader2.panix.com>
	<PdEhc.19536$dZ1.11964@fed1read04>
Message-ID: <slrnc8hluh.s60.apardon@trout.vub.ac.be>

Op 2004-04-22, Mark Hahn schreef <mark at prothon.org>:
> "Roy Smith" <roy at panix.com> wrote ...
>
>
>> Well, we could always try something like...
>>
>> <variable>
>>  <name>
>>   <component>long</component>
>>   <component>variable</component>
>>   <component>name</component>
>>  <name>
>> </variable>
>
> That's it!  We'll do the whole Prothon language in XML!  (The one idea that
> hasn't been proposed over in Prothon lists yet :)

How about this idea, which is about something different but may be
related. Allow your argument list to be divided among the identifier.

If you would define a component as something like an identifier but
without an underscore and then define an identifier as a number
of components attached to each other with underscores you then could
allow a function to have part of its arguments between components.

Something like:

  copy_to(a,b)

  could then also be written as:

  copy(a)to(b)


-- 
Antoon Pardon


From ashiyana at lycos.com  Thu Apr  8 09:54:52 2004
From: ashiyana at lycos.com (anand k Rayudu)
Date: Thu, 08 Apr 2004 09:54:52 -0400
Subject: Embedding python in ANSYS: Anyone tried it?
Message-ID: <ECHMHHNOPOPGGLAA@mailcity.com>

Hi Berthold,

   You can embed python into any application very easily.
   Also you have to extend python to understand your applications APIs and objects.
   There are so many tools [Eg: SWIG, Boost ]  to do this.
 
   Also python allows you to have 2 way communication between c/c++ & python,
   using that you can have   call back mechanism,
   By embedding  your application will have rich set of utilities. [ Remember python has very big list of modules ]
   To deploy your application you need not have to have python as pre installed at your customer location.
   You may supply python with your application. [ Some thing similar to JRE for JAVA]
  
   I hope this information  helps you.
   Recently I embedded python into one  FE application,
   if you want to know some specific details I can try to help you out.
   Please let me know.

Best Wishes,

Anand




____________________________________________________________
Find what you are looking for with the Lycos Yellow Pages
http://r.lycos.com/r/yp_emailfooter/http://yellowpages.lycos.com/default.asp?SRC=lycos10



From http  Tue Apr 20 21:49:05 2004
From: http (Paul Rubin)
Date: 20 Apr 2004 18:49:05 -0700
Subject: PDF library?
References: <7xad1631j8.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<pan.2004.04.21.09.49.28.891429@NOTTHISBIT.webone.com.au>
Message-ID: <7xzn96drse.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

Simon Burton <simonb at NOTTHISBIT.webone.com.au> writes:
> http://www.reportlab.org/
> 
> handles pdf files.

Reportlab generates reports in pdf format, but I want to do the
opposite, namely read in pdf files that have already been generated by
a different program, and crunch on them.  Any more ideas?  Thanks.


From johnbunderwood at yahoo.ca  Tue Apr  6 15:24:26 2004
From: johnbunderwood at yahoo.ca (John Underwood)
Date: Tue, 06 Apr 2004 15:24:26 -0400
Subject: Using python23 to develop an extension for an application that
	has python22 embedded
References: <aoa370h2r58lgb00jn9o1nfpg2titdgoss@4ax.com>
	<1073eeubflmchd5@corp.supernews.com>
	<o2g3709fpgp50sn561h0vf5e2dd6hcuo7g@4ax.com>
	<1073vcag51uufe9@corp.supernews.com>
	<ilb5701am2r6eej1riudbaolj1aphie6nb@4ax.com>
	<1075js9on4our07@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <dhv57054mo69d1v4a1pee4fdrbe9vf7oj7@4ax.com>

On Tue, 6 Apr 2004 08:40:57 -0700, "Michael Geary"
<Mike at DeleteThis.Geary.com> wrote:

>> Michael Geary wrote:
>> > Anyway, I must be missing something here, because I would think
>> > you could simply develop with your installed Python 2.2 and run
>> > the code under your target application. You shouldn't have to be
>> > worrying about any of the stuff you're dealing with.
>
>John Underwood wrote:
>> May be it comes down to the approach taken to debug an extension.
>> (I'm new to Python - as you've probably guessed - and debugging
>> mixed language situations.)
>>
>> To use the dubugging features of Visual Studio to debug my extension
>> code, I thought I needed to use python22_d.dll (the debug version fo
>> python22.dll). Is this correct? If so, I have not been able to produce
>> it with Visual Studio .NET because of the problems VS has with 2.2.
>>
>> On the other hand, would it be better to debug the extension without
>> the Python interface (in other words, debug the internals of the
>> extension that are not dependent on Python) before attempting to test
>> the Python interface (which could be performed with python22.dll)?
>
>Oh! I think I just realized what I was missing. Is your Poser extension part
>Python and part C/C++? I was assuming it was pure Python.

There is a Python front-end (using tkinter). This is not implemented
as an extension but is simply a script that runs in Poser. It imports
the extension part (which is coded in C/C++). 

>
>If it was pure Python, then of course it wouldn't matter if you had the
>debug version of python22.dll. You'd use the debugging facilities that the
>Python interpreter provides for Python code, which don't depend on having
>the debug version of the interpreter.
>
>If you were debugging code in the Python interpreter itself, then you would
>certainly need the debug version of python22.dll.
>
>But are you are developing both some Python code and an extension DLL
>written in C/C++? In that case, it still wouldn't be necessary to have the
>debug version of python22.dll, any more than you need a debug version of the
>Windows DLLs such as kernel32.dll and user32.dll. You would just build a
>debug version of *your* DLL. Set the Debugging options in your VS.NET
>project properties to run Poser, and you'll be good to go. You can set
>breakpoints in your DLL, trace through the code, etc. The only limitation
>will be that you can't trace through the code inside python22.dll. Only if
>you need to do that would you need a debug version of that DLL.
>

I tried a small extension DLL as a test using your suggestion. I could
debug in VS.NET without the need of python22_d.dll which is all I
need.

Many thanks for the help.

Regards,
-John






From dlissett0 at yahoo.com  Sat Apr 24 21:59:56 2004
From: dlissett0 at yahoo.com (Duncan Lissett)
Date: 24 Apr 2004 18:59:56 -0700
Subject: Richards bench benchmark
References: <6748553f.0403291446.27fb7b93@posting.google.com>
	<jLCdnW28-PB6cfXdRVn-iQ@powergate.ca>
	<6748553f.0403300836.744e3e22@posting.google.com>
	<Etqdnd8EeYGjM_TdRVn-jA@powergate.ca>
	<6748553f.0403302317.4595844@posting.google.com>
	<RuKdnc0lmsZFTfHdRVn-ug@powergate.ca>
	<6748553f.0404060802.6e0d708c@posting.google.com>
	<nrKdnaEeNcXAYu_dRVn-vw@powergate.ca>
	<6748553f.0404211342.7591cd8e@posting.google.com>
	<40899240.7020508@engcorp.com>
Message-ID: <6748553f.0404241759.1f98a441@posting.google.com>

Peter Hansen <peter at engcorp.com> wrote in message news:<40899240.7020508 at engcorp.com>...

> Okay, first working version is available by going to 
> http://www.engcorp.com/main/projects/PyBench .
> 
> That's about all the time I can spare on this for now.
> Feel free to download, hack, improve, or ignore.

Excellent! 

I've added the Python implementation timings:
http://www.lissett.com/ben/bench1.htm

I've no prior experience of Python to judge from, but for some reason
I expected it to be faster than the interpreted implementation of
Smalltalk designed for mobile devices.


From tjreedy at udel.edu  Thu Apr  8 20:50:05 2004
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Thu, 8 Apr 2004 20:50:05 -0400
Subject: Pyrex list is down
References: <mailman.316.1081033683.20120.python-list@python.org><74jek1-3qs.ln1@snout.lairds.org><Xns94C5612F230B4duncanrcpcouk@127.0.0.1>
	<074gk1-8u1.ln1@snout.lairds.org>
Message-ID: <c54rvq$35t$1@sea.gmane.org>


> Duncan Booth <me at privacy.net> writes:
>
> >> I hate mailing lists anyway.  I'd much rather use Usenet.

Give your newsreader an account for news.gmane.org and subscribe to
gmane.comp.python.pyrex.  There are news-gated versions of about 50 python
related mailing lists.

TJR







From peter at engcorp.com  Thu Apr  1 21:28:39 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Thu, 01 Apr 2004 21:28:39 -0500
Subject: Richards bench benchmark
In-Reply-To: <6748553f.0403302317.4595844@posting.google.com>
References: <6748553f.0403291446.27fb7b93@posting.google.com>
	<jLCdnW28-PB6cfXdRVn-iQ@powergate.ca>
	<6748553f.0403300836.744e3e22@posting.google.com>
	<Etqdnd8EeYGjM_TdRVn-jA@powergate.ca>
	<6748553f.0403302317.4595844@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <406CCFD7.40108@engcorp.com>

Duncan Lissett wrote:
> Peter Hansen wrote:
>>I'd implement it in Python for kicks, but I'm not sure how I'd know
>>whether my version was doing the right thing.  Are there any tests
>>for it?  Ways of ensuring the output is correct?
> 
> Martin Richards original spec and debug/trace information is reposted
> here:
> http://www.lissett.com/ben/com/benchspec.htm

Okay, as a starting point I've turned the "gold output" part of that
spec into a first acceptance test, and have a shell bench.py which
runs but fails ('pass' statements tend to do that a lot during TDD).

The code should be available with

   svn co svn://fortress.engcorp.com/public/bench

I don't really expect anyone to check it out at this stage, but if you
happen to have a free moment, I wouldn't mind knowing if subversion
is properly visible through my firewall.

-Peter


From peter at engcorp.com  Fri Apr  2 17:34:52 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Fri, 02 Apr 2004 17:34:52 -0500
Subject: Making the Zen of Python more useful
In-Reply-To: <mailman.291.1080941756.20120.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.291.1080941756.20120.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <ndKdnawyUZURd_DdRVn-hw@powergate.ca>

Aloysio Figueiredo wrote:

>>>>import sys
>>>>t,sys.stdout = sys.stdout, file('/dev/null', 'w')
>>>>from this import s
>>>>sys.stdout = t
>>>>s.decode('rot-13')

Aloysio, it's often helpful that sys.__stdout__ preserves a reference
to the original sys.stdout (similarly with sys.__stdin__ and
sys.__stderr__) so you don't have to preserve it manually like
that.

-Peter


From ville at spammers.com  Thu Apr  1 09:33:20 2004
From: ville at spammers.com (Ville Vainio)
Date: 01 Apr 2004 17:33:20 +0300
Subject: Python as natural language (was Re: ANNOUNCE: 'goto' for Python
References: <mailman.210.1080803438.20120.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <du7ptarkbtb.fsf@mozart.cc.tut.fi>

>>>>> "Richie" == Richie Hindle <richie at entrian.com> writes:

    Richie> Entrian Solutions is pleased to announce version 1.0 of
    Richie> the 'goto' module.

    Richie> This adds the 'goto' and 'comefrom' keywords to Python
    Richie> 2.3, adding flexibility to Python's control flow
    Richie> mechanisms and allowing Python programmers to use many
    Richie> common control flow idioms that were previously denied to
    Richie> them.

I like it! I especially like the way comefrom maps to how we
speak. You know, "come here when you are done with the first
file". Programming is hard for the beginners because there really is
no direct mapping of many everyday speech idioms, and comefrom goes a
long way to redeem this for Python. 

There is still a long way to go, though. I have some problems telling
nouns apart from verbs. Python could innovate here by prefixing all
the function names with !. This ought to make the parser faster also,
considering that Python startup time has gone up in recent versions.

Another gripe of mine is the if-statement. Often what is done is more
important than the condition that determines what we are to do in the
first place, esp. in situations where the condition is of the form "if
the previous command succeeded". This could be easily redeemed by a
postfix-if statement:


err = foo()
    dostuff()
    domorestuff()
:if not err

This seems pretty elegant, considering that exceptions are a hackish
and unnatural way to solve this problem. Python parser would cope with
this just fine.

-- 
Ville Vainio   http://tinyurl.com/2prnb


From tundra at tundraware.com  Mon Apr  5 21:20:10 2004
From: tundra at tundraware.com (Tim Daneliuk)
Date: 05 Apr 2004 21:20:10 EDT
Subject: For Those Who Offered To Beta Test A New Python Configuration File
 Processor ...
Message-ID: <nlc9k1-lpa2.ln1@eskimo.tundraware.com>

Please contact me privately - we are going to Beta pretty quickly and
I managed to fatfinger the list of people who offered to help.
If you are interested, you can get a look at what's going on here at:

       http://www.tundraware.com/Software/tconfpy/

TIA,
-- 
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Tim Daneliuk     tundra at tundraware.com
PGP Key:         http://www.tundraware.com/PGP/



From vincent_delft at yahoo.com  Thu Apr  8 16:43:23 2004
From: vincent_delft at yahoo.com (vincent_delft at yahoo.com)
Date: Thu, 08 Apr 2004 22:43:23 +0200
Subject: New PIL user : How to merge images
Message-ID: <4075b940$0$1963$ba620e4c@news.skynet.be>


Does any one can give me sample of PIL code that merge 2 pictures.

To "normalize" pictures size, I would like to superpose pictures on a "fixed
size" background.

Thanks




I've tried : 

import Image
bg=Image.open('back.jpg') # size 800,600
img=Image.open('test.jpg') # size 400,400

But the both following command return an error
img.paste(bg)
bg.paste(img) 



From cmg at dok.org  Thu Apr 15 11:18:01 2004
From: cmg at dok.org (Chris Green)
Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2004 11:18:01 -0400
Subject: Difficulty Finding Python Developers
References: <65cbc3dd.0404140641.3501fde8@posting.google.com>
	<30260531.0404141031.3415b975@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <m2hdvlnuc6.fsf@catbert.dok.org>

simoninusa2001 at yahoo.co.uk (simo) writes:

> Yes, I'm beginning to think Python isn't as accepted as we think ;o)

I've run into a few people that have used python in jobs but not very
many.  It seems to leave a bad taste for many people that don't have a
text editor that does the right thing out of the box.  

It's amazing how much software development is done with people that
don't place enough emphasis on making their tools make their job
easy. I've seen a really good algorithms person run vmware on linux to
get notepad.exe in win32...  

> I'm actually looking for a Python job now (in CA, not Atlanta) and
> it seems that there's only a few out there, mostly at Google doing
> SysAdmin stuff!  Barely anyone actually lists Python as a main
> requirement, more like a "nice to have" alongside Perl or C++.

When I've gone into places, I've often sold them on having good luck
teaching other people python and ending up with something more
maintainable as everyone is forced to write about the same kind of
python code as long as you don't get trigger happy with speciality
methods. 
>
> I've seen no web development positions or prototyping/testing at all,
> which seems strange to me, as I mainly use Python for RAD, prototyping
> C++/Qt apps etc.

I've definately not seen webdev in python.  Lots of asp, perl and php
and lots of "where do we go from here".

Often it takes doing something quickly in python and seeing some good
results to get people to wake up to python.  

One example I was sharing at pycon was using the unittest framework to
test other apps. Take an existing project that doens't have a test
suite but does have a command line interface and generate test cases
based off causing the prgram to perform actions.  I first saw this in
ghostscript and I wrote a preliminary one for an IDS.

When searching for jobs I try to feel out how open the company is to
new solutions and when a need that python fulfills comes up, use it.
-- 
Chris Green <cmg at dok.org>
Eschew obfuscation.


From mark at prothon.org  Thu Apr 15 14:05:29 2004
From: mark at prothon.org (Mark Hahn)
Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2004 11:05:29 -0700
Subject: CamelCase versus wide_names (Prothon)
References: <UHxfc.9323$dZ1.3740@fed1read04>
	<407ec022$0$54153$1b2cd167@news.wanadoo.nl>
	<roy-C4FD90.13444715042004@reader2.panix.com>
Message-ID: <b9Afc.9345$dZ1.7703@fed1read04>


"Roy Smith" <roy at panix.com> wrote...

> It's entirely unclear how any of the above should influence your
> decisions on language design :-)

It may not technically be part of the language design, but aesthic issues
like this need to be decided up front or they will be decided randomly.
Users on the Prothon mailing list were asking me (I'm the BDFL there) to
change from wide_names to camelCase and I wasn't letting them, because
Python used wide_names and I have a rule about following Python unless there
is a good reason to change.

Then I came here and asked and to my surprise I'm finding out that 100% of
python users want camelCase.  This kind of blows away my argument against
it.  So camelCase it will be.

Now I'll go through all the Python method and var names and convert them all
to camelCase for Prothon.  It shouldn't be a problem for users since the
conversion is mechanical.




From ndbecker2 at verizon.net  Thu Apr 22 09:48:14 2004
From: ndbecker2 at verizon.net (Neal D. Becker)
Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2004 09:48:14 -0400
Subject: Simple question about mutable container iterator
Message-ID: <c68iet$8qd$1@sea.gmane.org>

x = [1,2,3]

for i in x:
  i = 2

This doesn't change x.  2 questions:

1) Why not?  Why doesn't assign to an iterator of a mutable type change the
underlying object?

2) What is the preferred way to do this?




From till at score.is.tsukuba.ac.jp  Wed Apr 21 12:38:01 2004
From: till at score.is.tsukuba.ac.jp (Till Plewe)
Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2004 01:38:01 +0900
Subject: python shutting down sloooooooowly/tuning dictionaries
In-Reply-To: <40869D5F.9010408@sweetapp.com>
References: <20040421153923.GA13234%till@score.is.tsukuba.ac.jp>
	<40869D5F.9010408@sweetapp.com>
Message-ID: <20040421163801.GA13623%till@score.is.tsukuba.ac.jp>

On Wed, Apr 21, 2004 at 06:12:15PM +0200, Brian Quinlan wrote:
> >Since the entire database is too large I typically run the same
> >program 10-100 times on smaller parts. The annoying bit is that the
> >time for finishing one instance of a program before starting the next
> >instance can take a lot of time.  ...
> 
> You might try disabling garbage collection using the gc module when you 
> your application is done. Explicitly closing any files bound to globals 
> might then be a good idea.
> 
> Cheers,
> Brian
> 

Thanks for the suggestions but unfortunately I already tried disabling
gc. It did not have any noticable effect (not that I was patient
enough to time it) nor did using sys.exit(). Also, I am not using
threads which excludes another possible explanation. 

To give an example of the actual time spans involved: 2-10 minutes for
running the program and > 30 minutes for shutdown. During that time
the amount of memory used by python does not seem to vary.

A far as closing files is concerned, I am using cdb for writing 
read-only databases and I am using cdb.finish() (there is no explicit
method for closing(); finish writes all key/value pairs to a temporary
file and then moves that file to wherever you want it. But as far as I can see
as soon as that file is written/has been moved no more I/O should take place.
There is no data loss if I simply kill the python program. 
 
- Till




From patrick at harsdorf.de  Sun Apr 25 12:28:32 2004
From: patrick at harsdorf.de (Patrick von Harsdorf)
Date: Sun, 25 Apr 2004 18:28:32 +0200
Subject: iterating over collection, deleting entries => PLEASE IGNORE
References: <c6gop3$5p7$03$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <c6govf$j0n$06$1@news.t-online.com>

Sorry, I missed that SnuSnu just posed a very similar question.
Please ignore my post...




From richie at entrian.com  Fri Apr  2 15:40:34 2004
From: richie at entrian.com (Richie Hindle)
Date: Fri, 02 Apr 2004 21:40:34 +0100
Subject: ANNOUNCE: 'goto' for Python
In-Reply-To: <c4k82q02qp8@enews2.newsguy.com>
References: <mailman.210.1080803438.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<c4k82q02qp8@enews2.newsguy.com>
Message-ID: <emjr60dkpj2ru2lmovehqrl00u0nffh2d1@4ax.com>


[Bill]
> Can you explain to me why you need comefrom? Couldn't you replace
> "label.failed" with "goto cleanup"? Thanks.

You don't strictly need comefrom, but then you don't strictly need goto
either.  Use whatever control flow construct fits the problem you're
trying to solve.

-- 
Richie Hindle
richie at entrian.com




From martin at v.loewis.de  Fri Apr 30 18:48:46 2004
From: martin at v.loewis.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?=22Martin_v=2E_L=F6wis=22?=)
Date: Sat, 01 May 2004 00:48:46 +0200
Subject: _socket module missing solaris 7 build python 2.3.3
In-Reply-To: <409275CC.1D6D080@csr.utexas.edu>
References: <409275CC.1D6D080@csr.utexas.edu>
Message-ID: <4092D7CE.1050605@v.loewis.de>

Stephen Williams wrote:
> anyone out there know of a way around this?  compiler flags or
> something?

Around what? That sunfreeware does not ship the socket module?

Contact Sun.

If you want to work around contacting Sun, you have these
alternatives:
- build Python yourself.
- just build the socket module.

Regards,
Martin



From alford at wuphys.wustl.edu  Mon Apr 12 18:17:27 2004
From: alford at wuphys.wustl.edu (Mark Alford)
Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2004 17:17:27 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: plot+interaction
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0404121715550.2090@bucky.wustl.edu>


I have been using the gnuplot.py package for simple 2D plots.
Works great. But I would like to have a tiny bit of interactivity:

I would like the program to know where (in terms of the
plot variables x and y) the user has mouse-clicked on the plot window.

Is there any other plotting package that offers this functionality?

Mark



From usenet_spam at janc.invalid  Thu Apr 29 23:49:34 2004
From: usenet_spam at janc.invalid (JanC)
Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2004 03:49:34 GMT
Subject: Path ... where is my application's home dir?
References: <mailman.81.1083164606.25742.python-list@python.org>
	<Xns94D9B0A6BEE74duncanrcpcouk@127.0.0.1>
	<c6ovte$5im$1@biggoron.nerim.net>
	<p8WdnYsB5t5PmQ3dRVn-hw@powergate.ca>
Message-ID: <Xns94DB3B44C6806JanC@213.118.38.102>

Peter Hansen <peter at engcorp.com> schreef:

> Also works on WinXP. (And the last statistic I saw showed Win98
> users at something like 2% of the Windows-using population,
> so perhaps we can almost forget about it...  ?)

I guess Win9x users are more like 15-30% of the Windows-using population...

-- 
JanC

"Be strict when sending and tolerant when receiving."
RFC 1958 - Architectural Principles of the Internet - section 3.9


From mghsm at hotpop.com  Sun Apr 18 09:15:08 2004
From: mghsm at hotpop.com (Richie Adler (ROT13))
Date: Sun, 18 Apr 2004 10:15:08 -0300
Subject: Any known bitmap/resource/image collection for a Spanish card
	deck?
References: <qdtjbp67wpnl.dlg@kilroysoft.com>
	<c35frm$nar$1@news.service.uci.edu> <wz8yi117l9.fsf@Ordesa.local>
	<c3b2on$cds$1@news.service.uci.edu>
	<qnk1xnqacpx.fsf@arbutus.physics.mcmaster.ca>
Message-ID: <928hgke7jazi.dlg@kilroysoft.com>

On Thu, 18 Mar 2004 01:30:50 -0500, David M. Cooke wrote:

> Have you checked pysol? (http://www.pysol.org/) It has a lot of card
> decks (no Spanish ones at first glance, but lots of French, for instance).

The poker deck is French in origin. All decks in pysol (including the 
optional additional ones) are variants of the same deck.

-- 
     o-=< Kilroy >=-o


From mikalzetTogli at interfree.it  Sat Apr  3 15:25:29 2004
From: mikalzetTogli at interfree.it (TaeKyon)
Date: Sat, 03 Apr 2004 20:25:29 GMT
Subject: recursive file editing
Message-ID: <pan.2004.04.03.20.25.28.565809@interfree.it>

I'm a python newbie; here are a few questions relative to a
problem I'm trying to solve; I'm wandering if python is the best
instrument or if awk or a mix of bash and sed would be better:

1) how would I get recursively descend
through all files in all subdirectories of 
the one in which my script is called ?

2) each file examined should be edited; IF a string of this type is found

foo.asp=dev?bar (where bar can be a digit or an empty space)

it should always be substituted with this string

foo-bar.html (if bar is an empty space the new string is foo-.html)

3) the names of files read may themselves be of the sort foo.asp=dev?bar;
the edited output file should also be renamed according to the same rule
as above ... or would this be better handled by a bash script ?

Any hints appreciated

-- 
Michele Alzetta



From sross at connectmail.carleton.ca  Mon Apr 26 08:43:47 2004
From: sross at connectmail.carleton.ca (Sean Ross)
Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2004 08:43:47 -0400
Subject: Using descriptors to wrap methods
References: <408cfa5a$0$28920$61fed72c@news.rcn.com>
Message-ID: <Dt7jc.11101$iX1.423237@news20.bellglobal.com>


"Edward C. Jones" <edcjones at erols.com> wrote in message
news:408cfa5a$0$28920$61fed72c at news.rcn.com...
> Here is a stripped-down version of a Python Cookbook recipe. Is there a
> simpler, more Pythonical, natural way of doing this?
>

def wrap(f):
    def wrapped(*args, **kwds):
        print 'pre'
        result = f(*args, **kwds)
        print 'post'
        return result
    return wrapped




From ville at spammers.com  Sun Apr  4 04:18:16 2004
From: ville at spammers.com (Ville Vainio)
Date: 04 Apr 2004 11:18:16 +0300
Subject: Python is faster than C
References: <406F0907.96F37EA1@tunes.org>
Message-ID: <du7y8pcupfb.fsf@mozart.cc.tut.fi>

>>>>> "Armin" == Armin Rigo <arigo at tunes.org> writes:

    Armin> Worse, and more importantly, the optimization starts to
    Armin> become visible to the programmer.  Iterators, for example,
    Armin> are great in limited cases but I consider their
    Armin> introduction a significant complication in the language;
    Armin> before, you could expect that some function from which you
    Armin> would expect a sequence returned a list.  Python was all
    Armin> lists and

Iterators are an optimization? I always considered them just a more
clean and elegant way to do the same thing :-).

-- 
Ville Vainio   http://tinyurl.com/2prnb


From cm at leetspeak.org  Fri Apr 30 08:28:03 2004
From: cm at leetspeak.org (Michael Walter)
Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2004 14:28:03 +0200
Subject: static keyword
In-Reply-To: <LeydnWxdT6atjgzdRVn-sA@powergate.ca>
References: <f8097096.0404290607.78aa9ce3@posting.google.com>
	<LeydnWxdT6atjgzdRVn-sA@powergate.ca>
Message-ID: <c6tgoc$fe8h8$1@ID-88904.news.uni-berlin.de>

Peter Hansen wrote:
> Nick Jacobson wrote:
> 
>> I believe the following "static" command would be useful in Python.
> 
> [snip]
> 
>> Just like in C, the variables i and firstcall are only assigned the
>> first time foo() is called.  To get this effect currently, one could
>> use default arguments or wrapping the whole thing in a class.  Both of
>> these solutions seem like hacks, the above method IMO is more
>> Pythonic. :)
> 
> 
> I'm not sure how to interpret the smiley, but I'll take it
> you weren't actually joking...
> 
> Why do you call using OO ("wrapping it in a class", as you say)
> a "hack"?  Generally speaking, using objects to contain state
> information such as this is exactly what most people would call
> the cleanest, best approach.
 > [...]
There's also a bunch of people who would consider this (modulo my 
obvious mistakes ;) the cleanest, best approach:

(let ((first-call #t)
       (i '(10 11)))
   (define (foo)
     (when (first-call)
           (begin (display "first pass") (set! first-call #f))
     (set! (array-ref i 0) (+ (array-ref i 0) 1))
     (display (array-ref i 0))))

I.e. capture the state in a normal lexical variable.

Cheers,
Michael


From michele.simionato at poste.it  Wed Apr 28 10:19:56 2004
From: michele.simionato at poste.it (Michele Simionato)
Date: 28 Apr 2004 07:19:56 -0700
Subject: Generic constructors and duplication of internal Python logic
References: <87ekqq41ya.fsf@pobox.com>
	<8dad5312.0404280217.21c2cfd1@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <95aa1afa.0404280619.778bd323@posting.google.com>

sdementen at hotmail.com (Sebastien de Menten) wrote in message news:<8dad5312.0404280217.21c2cfd1 at posting.google.com>...
> Here is a metaclass for uber-lazy user :-)
> 
> Concretely, at the creation of the class it takes the source of the
> __init__ function and add, at the first line of __init__, the line
> that sets the attributes :
> >         self.foo, self.bar, self.baz, self.optional1, self.optional2 = 
> >                    foo, bar, baz, optional1, optional2
> 

Unfortunately this approach does not work if the source is not available
(this happens when you are in the interpreter, or when you only have a .pyc 
file). I was playing this kind of tricks some time ago, then I decided that
it was best to switch to Lisp/Scheme for this kind of stuff ;)


  Michele Simionato


From wilkSPAM at OUTflibuste.net  Fri Apr 16 07:00:29 2004
From: wilkSPAM at OUTflibuste.net (Wilk)
Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2004 13:00:29 +0200
Subject: (For gurus) Embed functions in webpages like in PHP?
References: <5eq4l1-9vm.ln1@pilz.hasos.com>
Message-ID: <87llkwjigi.fsf@blakie.riol>


Hi,

Look at http://cheetahtemplate.org, you'll have the possibility to put
python code into the template and have automatic and elegant cache...

This page describe it and show very clear examples
http://cheetahtemplate.org/docs/users_guide_html_multipage/output.caching.regions.html

It's just an example, there are others possibility, with many web
frameworks.
http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/moinmoin/WebProgramming


Robert Ferber <rob at nospam.net> writes:

> Hi,
>
> I'm  a PHP-programmer who evaluates Python for a new project.
> I really like a lot of concepts of Python, especially the shell, but there
> is one great feature of PHP which I don't know how to replace in Python:
>
> For database-intensive webpages, I like to cache the HTML-output on the fly
> in the filesystem and put out the file later whenever the same URL is
> requested again, for example:
>
> /cache/some_url:
> <html>
> important database result that took 20 minutes to generate
> </html>
>
> and:
> /www/master_script.php:
> <?
> if (is_file("/cache/$URL")) include("/cache/$URL");
> else include("/scripts/soo_long_and_complicated.php");
> ?>
>
> So far so good, shouldn't be too much of problem to do something similar in
> Python.
>
> However, it's sometimes necessary to still access the database, for example
> to rotate banners, show user-specified style-sheets, change output
> depending on the used browser, etc.
> In PHP it's trivial to do this, instead of caching the output of a function,
> I just cache "<? function(); ?>", so the example looks like this:
>
> <html>
> <? echo random_banner(); ?>
> important database result that took 20 minutes to generate
> </html>
>
> I've used this technique for about a year now and it works great for
> semi-static pages (which are manually changed) or some not too fast
> changing dynamic pages, in some cases I reduced the database-load to 20%.
> The beauty of it is that I can use the same "random_banner_()" function for
> the cache and on the fly.
>
> As far as I've seen, there is no way to embed Python-code in a webpage with
> "<? ?>" or anything equivalent and I don't see any other way to solve this
> problem.
>
> But maybe somebody else does, I'd apreceate all ideas,
>
> Thanks a lot
>
> -- 
> "I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it" 
>  - Calvin
>

-- 
Wilk - http://flibuste.net


From balaji at email.arizona.edu  Fri Apr 23 17:34:18 2004
From: balaji at email.arizona.edu (Balaji)
Date: 23 Apr 2004 14:34:18 -0700
Subject: How to get the refernces Stored.
Message-ID: <494182a9.0404231334.1f6b2dad@posting.google.com>

import __main__

tempbuffer= None

permbuffer={}

class E:
	def __init__(self):
#		print id(self)
		self.hasVar = False
		
        
	def doOperation(self,op,rightOperand):
		e = E()
		if self.__class__ == E:
			e.hasVar = self.hasVar
		elif self.__class__ == V or rightOperand.__class__ == V or \
			(rightOperand.__class__ == E and rightOperand.hasVar == True):
			e.hasVar = True
		e.operator = op
		e.left = self
		e.right = rightOperand
		global tempbuffer
		global permbuffer
		print "bll"
		f = copy.copy(e)
		print f
		r =findNonTempBufferRef(tempbuffer)
		print r
		if r != 'tempbuffer':
			print "hello"
			permbuffer[r] =tempbuffer
		tempbuffer = f
		return e
		

	def relationalOperators(self,op,rightOperand):
		print self,rightOperand
		e=E()
		e.operator =op
		e.left=self
		e.right=rightOperand
		return e
		
	def __neg__(self):
		return self    
	
	def __radd__(self,e2):
		return self.doOperation('+',e2)
	
	def __add__(self,e2):
		return self.doOperation('+',e2) 

class V(E):
	""" This is a variable for MPY"""
	def __init__(self):
		print "V",
		E.__init__(self)
		self.hasVar = True
		self.val = None
    
	def __str__(self):
		if self.val:
#			print "self.val *****"
			return str(self.val)
		else:
			return findRefTo(self) or "MPY Error! Printing unnamed variable."



def findRefTo(obj):
	import expression # Needed to get access to main.
	vnames = vars(__main__)
	for name in vnames.keys():
		if vnames[name] == obj:
			return name
	return None

def findNonTempBufferRef(obj):
	import expression # Needed to get access to main.
	vnames = vars(__main__)
	print vnames
	for name in vnames.keys():
		if  vnames[name] == obj:
			return name
	return None





**************************************************

This my code...

On interpretor if i

create x=V() and y=V() creates two instances of class variable which
inherits from expression class E.

now if i say

x+y

and then c=x+y

and ce=x+y

i think i loose the original one...

i want to store  in a permbuffer all asignments made..

after assigning c and ce i want a copy of both in a permbuffer..

Iam at my witends .. Please help...

Balaji


From boblancaster at zxmail.com  Tue Apr 27 10:20:13 2004
From: boblancaster at zxmail.com (Bob Lancaster)
Date: 27 Apr 2004 07:20:13 -0700
Subject: creating an python function with DCoracle2 module
References: <46a86393.0404270242.60fe9b35@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <b470cb58.0404270620.54c15cbe@posting.google.com>

shmolduk at free.fr (pepericou) wrote in message news:<46a86393.0404270242.60fe9b35 at posting.google.com>...
> I'm trying to developp an application which use Zope and DCOracle2
> module to access Oracle database. I've install the DCOracle2 product
> on Windows XP, but when I create a python function to access my
> database, I' have the following error when I test it :
>  import DCOracle2 is unauthorized
> Can You help me ?
> Thank you

Sounds like the problem is on your machine, and not with DCOracle2. 
I've imported it quite nicely (on Windows 2000), and so have many
others.  I would check the permissions on your DCOracle files.

Also, is that an English or French version of Windows XP?  Many of our
customers use non-English versions of XP, and those versions are often
not as robust as the English version.

Bob Lancaster

rlancasterATbruker-axsDOTcom


From simoninusa2001 at yahoo.co.uk  Wed Apr 28 00:30:56 2004
From: simoninusa2001 at yahoo.co.uk (simo)
Date: 27 Apr 2004 21:30:56 -0700
Subject: wxpython + py2exe + innosetup
References: <408eca0c$1@newsflash.abo.fi>
Message-ID: <30260531.0404272030.3fe52362@posting.google.com>

"Simon Dahlbacka" <sdahlbacSPAMSUX at abo.fi> wrote:

> I'm "exefying" an application that uses wxpython, some com to control excel
> and word and want to distribute this application.
> 
> after creating the executable with py2exe, it still works fine (at least on
> my development machine), however, if I create an installer package with
> innosetup, install it and try to run it, I get a busy cursor for a split
> second and then.. nothing. no errors no traceback no nothing.. viewing
> dependencies does not reveal anything strange, and running the installed
> program in a debugger just tells that the application has exited with code
> 0.

Does the program rely on any paths to files - i.e. does it open your
Excel/Word file from the current directory?

This is the only problem I've ever found with Inno - it's an FAQ too,
there's an option to set the "Run From" property in the shortcuts. The
sympton is that it won't work from the shortcut in Start/Desktop but
will work from the program directory.

What about permissions - if you installed it as non-Admin and it needs
to write something Admin-only.....

ISTool can make the InnoSetup options a bit easier to deal with -
maybe you're accepting a default that needs to be changed?

Some useful tips here:
http://starship.python.net/crew/theller/moin.cgi/BetterCompression


From joe at notcharles.ca  Tue Apr 20 05:07:21 2004
From: joe at notcharles.ca (Joe Mason)
Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 09:07:21 GMT
Subject: Dollar sign ($) on foriegn keyboards? (prothon)
References: <mk3hc.13895$dZ1.10823@fed1read04>
	<c62m70$2hu$06$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <slrnc89q11.pnv.joe@gate.notcharles.ca>

In article <c62m70$2hu$06$1 at news.t-online.com>, Peter Otten wrote:
> Mark Hahn wrote:
> 
>> We are considering switching to the dollar sign ($) for self, instead of
>> the
>> period ( . ) we are using now in Prothon.  Ruby uses the at-sign (@) for

<snip>

> Apart from that obj$func() hurts my eye more than obj->func() and
> obj!func(). As always, Python shines here with its obj.func() :-)

I believe the suggestion is "$.func()" instead of "self.func()" (the
Python way) or just ".func()" (the earlier Prothon way).  Or possibly
the suggestion is for "$func()", although I like $.func() much better.

(I like this better than the ., though I still have no problem with
writing self all the time, so I prefer sticking to the Python way.  It
solves my main problem with ., which is when you do have to pass self
explicitly.  "function_call(param1, ., parm2)" is much more confusing
than "function_call(param1, $, param2)".)

Joe


From cpl.19.ghum at spamgourmet.com  Sat Apr 10 04:23:53 2004
From: cpl.19.ghum at spamgourmet.com (Harald Massa)
Date: Sat, 10 Apr 2004 10:23:53 +0200
Subject: wxListCtrl with CheckBox?
References: <30260531.0404092256.6b58e3a1@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <Xns94C769C7240B3cpl19ghumspamgourmet@62.153.159.134>

> I've got a report list and want to have a checkbox in the last column
> of each row.

Get the checkbos in the first column of each row and use a wx.checklistbox 
???

Harald


From grante at visi.com  Wed Apr 28 14:52:06 2004
From: grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards)
Date: 28 Apr 2004 18:52:06 GMT
Subject: Problem with socket
References: <408f7917$0$27016$626a14ce@news.free.fr>
Message-ID: <408ffd56$0$17252$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>

On 2004-04-28, Thomas Herv? <therve at neocles.com> wrote:

> Ok I hope it's clear. My problem is that "select" only tests
> if there's data on the socket, and not the state of the
> socket.

That's not true.  If the socket is closed, it will return from
select as readable.

> I want to be able to know if socket is "alive" or something
> like that. But I don't want to make "send" in the client (stay
> passive). Then, if I know that my socket is closed or my link
> down, I can try to reconnect periodically.

You'll know if the socket is closed because select will mark it
as readable, and you'll get 0 bytes when you read it.

If you want to know if the network or the other host has "gone
away", set the SO_KEEPALIVE option on the socket.  That will
generate an error if the link is down. IIRC, it takes 75
minutes (or is it 150?) to time out after the other end goes
away.

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow!  I wonder if there's
                                  at               anything GOOD on tonight?
                               visi.com            


From bkc at Murkworks.com  Mon Apr 19 10:54:32 2004
From: bkc at Murkworks.com (Brad Clements)
Date: Mon, 19 Apr 2004 10:54:32 -0400
Subject: Getting output from embedded python program
References: <2aa196bb.0404190554.74631058@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <c60p79$be4$1@sea.gmane.org>

_
"Kim" <thefirstofnovember at yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:2aa196bb.0404190554.74631058 at posting.google.com...
> Hi everyone,
> I'm writing a embeded python program, and I want to evaluate some
> expression by calling function:
>
> PyRun_SimpleString("print 'hello'")
>
> I don't want to output it to stdout but putting it into string somehow
> sothat I can process it.
>
> Do anybody know how I can do that?
> Thanks very much
> Kim


Sure.

You can create a StringIO object and assign it sys.stdout

Or, you can create C "object" with a write method and assign an instance of
that object to sys.stdout.

-- 
Novell DeveloperNet Sysop #5






From drconrad at metaplay.com.au  Wed Apr 21 04:33:27 2004
From: drconrad at metaplay.com.au (Simon Wittber)
Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2004 16:33:27 +0800
Subject: No built-in swap function?
In-Reply-To: <DE1CF2B4FEC4A342BF62B6B2B334601E562033@opus.amorhq.net>
Message-ID: <000a01c4277b$52563aa0$0000fea9@simonxp>

>That's 6 LOAD_FAST, and 3 STORE_FAST operations, plus XOR'ing.

NB. I do not fully understand how psyco works.

The point I was trying to make, is that I expected a psyco optimised xor
swap to optimise down to ~3 CPU instructions, much like my old C
compiler once did.

AFAIK, psyco generates machine code, not python byte code?

Sw.




From alanmk at hotmail.com  Thu Apr  1 05:30:24 2004
From: alanmk at hotmail.com (Alan Kennedy)
Date: Thu, 01 Apr 2004 11:30:24 +0100
Subject: From python-dev, space vs. tab controversy finally settled
In-Reply-To: <c4ggrj$ri6$1@news.service.uci.edu>
References: <BrPac.5729$xw6.2105@fe1.columbus.rr.com>
	<c4ggrj$ri6$1@news.service.uci.edu>
Message-ID: <ibSac.2883$qP2.9917@news.indigo.ie>

[Carl Banks]
>> Here's a summary of the final decision Guido made concerning how
>> Python will indent code in the future, from python-dev:
 >>
 >> [Nice April Fool spoof :-) elided]

[Josiah Carlson]
> Great april fools joke, but no such conversation has gone on in 
> Python-Dev in the last 3 months.
> 
> Better luck next time.

Spoil-sport!

You could have at least given it a few *minutes* to get some traction!

-- 
alan kennedy
------------------------------------------------------
check http headers here: http://xhaus.com/headers
email alan:              http://xhaus.com/contact/alan


From fpnews at fencepost.net  Tue Apr 20 18:49:22 2004
From: fpnews at fencepost.net (Alan Miller)
Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 22:49:22 GMT
Subject: mcmillan installer (domain not expired)
References: <mailman.575.1081855698.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<KzSec.628$2e6.535@lakeread01>
Message-ID: <MPG.1aef42952679dacc989b4e@localhost>

Steve Holden (python at holdenweb.com) wrote:
>Unfortunately Gordon Macmillan seems to have disappeared without trace, 
>which is a great pity. The macmillan-inc domain registration appears to 
>have expired without renewal:

Actually, you typo'd that - mcmillan-inc.com is registered until April 
of 2005.

Still, I'm on the mailing list (which survived the apparent 
disappearance of mcmillan-inc.com) and haven't heard anything. There was 
one query a few weeks ago, but no responses.

ajm


From bignose-hates-spam at and-benfinney-does-too.id.au  Wed Apr 14 18:59:43 2004
From: bignose-hates-spam at and-benfinney-does-too.id.au (Ben Finney)
Date: 15 Apr 2004 08:49:43 +0950
Subject: Method for providing a trail period on a program
References: <L8idnY07QbRfNPHdRVn-hw@comcast.com>
	<slrnc6pcmh.1f2.bignose-hates-spam@rose.localdomain.fake>
	<407CF4F0.4020604@yahoo.com.au>
	<avOdnevBfd4kPODdRVn-gg@comcast.com>
Message-ID: <slrnc7rhoe.b04.bignose-hates-spam@iris.polar.local>

On Wed, 14 Apr 2004 15:40:25 -0500, Larry Bates wrote:
> I find the idea that you can give the software away and charge for
> support an interesting one.

So interesting that many 21st-century companies are doing just that.

> If you write REALLY good software with REALLY good documentation that
> provides REALLY good tracing and debugging support (so users can track
> down their own problems), what are you going to charge for?

That is indeed your dilemma.  What are you going to provide to the user
that they will want to pay for?  They will *not* want to pay for "usage
license", despite the current copyright law.  To expect that they will
is to treat them as fools or slaves.

When someone already has the software in their hands, what value are you
going to add that they should pay for?  Some existing suggestions:
installation assistance, customisation, integration with other systems,
printed documentation and so on.  You can probably think of others.

> The reason I wanted to put a trial period on
> my software was that I may have the opportunity
> to place it on the CDROM with a hardware device
> that is being sold.

You may want to treat the hardware as a value add for your software, and
charge a royalty for each bundle sold.

> I would like every end user to have the opportunity of trying out my
> add-on package.  I am however, not prepared to let them run it forever
> for free.

You wish, in short, to tell them what they can do with what they have
legally purchased.  Would you want others to do this to you?

> If it provides value to them, I believe they should purchase a
> license.

If you legally mandate this, you will simply motivate them to find a
replacement, or crack whatever protection you put in place, or not
purchase in the first place, depending on their technical ability or
respect for copyright law.  Why not allow those who want to pay, do so,
without demanding it?

The principle here is: think of things users would *want* to pay for as a
user of that software, and find a way to provide that.  If they can see
the value of paying for something, they'll be much more motivated to do
so than being forced by some intentional flaw in the software.

-- 
 \          "I don't like country music, but I don't mean to denigrate |
  `\          those who do. And for the people who like country music, |
_o__)                     denigrate means 'put down'."  -- Bob Newhart |
Ben Finney <http://bignose.squidly.org/>


From eppstein at ics.uci.edu  Sun Apr 11 20:50:24 2004
From: eppstein at ics.uci.edu (David Eppstein)
Date: Sun, 11 Apr 2004 17:50:24 -0700
Subject: print u"\u0432": why is this so hard? UnciodeEncodeError
References: <cpa4qrvb529.fsf@cabernet.nelson.monkey.org>
	<c52lu9$j8c$03$1@news.t-online.com>
	<eppstein-55126D.00202008042004@news.service.uci.edu>
	<c546v4$bi5$02$1@news.t-online.com>
	<m38yh3hhxv.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk>
	<c5cgq3$tps$00$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <eppstein-2EEC95.17502411042004@news.service.uci.edu>

In article <c5cgq3$tps$00$1 at news.t-online.com>,
 "Martin v. Lowis" <martin at v.loewis.de> wrote:

> Michael Hudson wrote:
> > The user can set it per-terminal, at runtime, with no notification to
> > the running process that it has done so!
> 
> I would find it acceptable to say "don't do that, then", here. However,
> changing the encoding should be visible to new programs running in the
> terminal.
> 
> I wonder how much would break if Python would assume the terminal
> encoding is UTF-8 on Darwin. Do people use different terminal
> encodings?

Now I'm curious -- how do you even find out it's a Terminal window 
you're looking at, rather than say an xterm?

-- 
David Eppstein                      http://www.ics.uci.edu/~eppstein/
Univ. of California, Irvine, School of Information & Computer Science


From hi at there.com  Sat Apr 17 00:34:00 2004
From: hi at there.com (marvin)
Date: Sat, 17 Apr 2004 04:34:00 GMT
Subject: editing a wxGrid
Message-ID: <Xns94CE5C2AC0F5leavemealone@24.24.2.165>

hi-

i worked on a project in TCL/TK found at j_m_mc.tripod.com.  I want to 
allow the user to edit the table using wxGrid and python.

I'm just looking for some tips.  For i.e. in sqlite and TCL most data is
represented as a string.  When do data types become an issue in this 
instance?  If I allow the user to edit directly in a cell it seems it 
doesnt really matter because you can only enforce data validation if i 
use a form anyways as far as the data types go.  I mean with sqlite the 
primary reason for using data types is in case i want to ever switch 
dbs.  I cant remember off the top of my head but I think access or 
paradox would complain if you used a string for instance in a date 
field.  So without some checking be in forced maybe it is not a good 
idea to directly allow editing in the table anyways.

Is a better way stepping through or searching the array that populates 
the TkTable query result and tying it to a form that validates somehow?

bottom line...i'm looking to extend my program a little and wondered
if anything along these lines is feasible.

thanks,
marvin



From hugh-m at moving-picture.com  Fri Apr 16 04:22:58 2004
From: hugh-m at moving-picture.com (Hugh Macdonald)
Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2004 09:22:58 +0100
Subject: CamelCase versus wide_names (Prothon)
In-Reply-To: <87d6692ar8.fsf@blakie.riol>
References: <UHxfc.9323$dZ1.3740@fed1read04> <87hdvl2dny.fsf@blakie.riol>
	<c5mr6h$jkn$1@atlantis.news.tpi.pl> <87d6692ar8.fsf@blakie.riol>
Message-ID: <20040416092258.3d4f831a.hugh-m@moving-picture.com>

On Thu, 15 Apr 2004 23:26:35 +0200
Wilk <wilkSPAM at OUTflibuste.net> wrote:

> On azerty keyboard _ is under 8 and does'nt need to press shift... I
> did'nt remember that it's diffent on qwerty.

On a qwerty keyboard, _ is SHIFT+- (to the right of 0)

-- 
Hugh Macdonald
The Moving Picture Company



From fredrik at pythonware.com  Fri Apr 23 05:01:56 2004
From: fredrik at pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2004 11:01:56 +0200
Subject: Regexp optimization question
References: <slrnc8gal3.9da.mlh@furu.idi.ntnu.no>
Message-ID: <c6am1b$esj$1@sea.gmane.org>

Magnus Lie Hetland wrote:
> but now I have to find out which one of them matched at a
> certain location.

the techniques discussed in this article may be helpful:

    http://effbot.org/zone/xml-scanner.htm

</F>






From bkelley at wi.mit.edu  Wed Apr 14 13:09:20 2004
From: bkelley at wi.mit.edu (Brian Kelley)
Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2004 13:09:20 -0400
Subject: [wxPython] MVC example?
In-Reply-To: <407d7000$0$579$b45e6eb0@senator-bedfellow.mit.edu>
References: <h6cfc.29378$I83.535807@twister.tampabay.rr.com>
	<407d7000$0$579$b45e6eb0@senator-bedfellow.mit.edu>
Message-ID: <407D7040.5000104@wi.mit.edu>

Small typo...

Brian Kelley wrote:

> The cool thing is that anything modifying the model will notify the 
> model.  In this case it is the controller modifying the model, but it 
> could be anything else, even another controller off in the distance 
> looking at something else.

The cool thing is that anything modifying the model will notify the
controller.


From ville at spammers.com  Tue Apr 27 02:46:45 2004
From: ville at spammers.com (Ville Vainio)
Date: 27 Apr 2004 09:46:45 +0300
Subject: Is Perl *that* good? (was: How's ruby compare to it older
	brother python)
References: <c6ich0$c5mee$1@ID-205437.news.uni-berlin.de>
	<iL3jc.232$Yc.2330@news4.e.nsc.no>
	<108q51j4dscn7dc@corp.supernews.com>
	<knbjc.267$id.3998@news2.e.nsc.no>
Message-ID: <du7ad0xex4a.fsf@lehtori.cc.tut.fi>

>>>>> "Leif" == Leif B Kristensen <junkmail at solumslekt.org> writes:

    Leif> Here's a small sample:

    Leif> $str =~ s/HN/N/g;        # John --> JON
    Leif> $str =~ s/TH/T/g;        # Thor --> TOR
    Leif> $str =~ s/CHI/KJ/g;      # Torchild --> TORKJL

...

Isn't that trivial in all languages that support regexps?

All too often Perl gets too much credit for doing things that are
every bit as easy/easier in other languages.

As a bonus, this python snippet returns the changes done for every
individual regex pair:


-------------
import re

repls = [
 ('NH','N'),
 ('TH','T'),
 ('CHI','KJ'),
 ('hel.*o','ll')  # one regex just for show

]

def subst_many(pairs, s):
    res = []
    for pat,repl in pairs:
        s, n = re.subn(pat, repl, s)
        res.append(n)
    return s,res

result, changes_done = subst_many(repls, my_text_file)








-- 
Ville Vainio   http://tinyurl.com/2prnb


From claird at lairds.com  Thu Apr 15 07:03:01 2004
From: claird at lairds.com (Cameron Laird)
Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2004 11:03:01 -0000
Subject: Why Activestate Python ?
References: <8089854e.0404090025.141f090c@posting.google.com>
	<1afv95dy6164y.1a9l3etptcw8w.dlg@40tude.net>
Message-ID: <107sqv5o109su9f@corp.supernews.com>

In article <1afv95dy6164y.1a9l3etptcw8w.dlg at 40tude.net>,
Andrei  <project5 at redrival.net> wrote:
>Fuzzyman wrote on 9 Apr 2004 01:25:45 -0700:
>
>> Again... a silly newbie question which might have an obvious
>> answer.... but *why* is their an alternative distribution of python by
>> activestate ?
>> 
>> Apart fromt he fact that they bundle Mark Hammond's Windows Extensions
>> with it (in the windows version) - what is to be gained from using
>> their distributio instead of the 'normal' one ?
>
>You also get PythonWin and nice docs. Python might have good HTMLHelp
>format docs by now as well, but last time I tried, there were many broken
>things in it. At some point I was running an official Py2.3<something>
>because ActiveState was a bit slow in releasing a 2.3 version, but I
>continued to use the docs from ActiveState Py 2.2.X. Now I have their 2.3.2
>distribution installed.
>
>Apart from that, it's Python. Depending on what your usage pattern is, you
>might not even notice what you have on your HD.
			.
			.
			.
I'm not sure what kind of an answer the original questioner is
after.  It's a fact, though, that some organizations (still!)
only understand "commercial" products.  Developers and admini-
strators in such organizations simply are allowed no access to
standard Python; they're able to get on with their work only 
because of the availability of ActiveState Python.
-- 

Cameron Laird <claird at phaseit.net>
Business:  http://www.Phaseit.net


From alloydflanagan at comcast.net  Tue Apr 13 11:46:41 2004
From: alloydflanagan at comcast.net (A. Lloyd Flanagan)
Date: 13 Apr 2004 08:46:41 -0700
Subject: FutureWarning question
References: <16mnetilcmds6.1apnyu46tbjpw.dlg@40tude.net>
Message-ID: <e838aa6e.0404130746.62860bf6@posting.google.com>

Mike <mike at nospam.com> wrote in message news:<16mnetilcmds6.1apnyu46tbjpw.dlg at 40tude.net>...
> I ran across the message below in 2.3.2 today. These are the lines of code:
> 
>    402: if m1_hi >> 15 & 0x0001 == 1:
>    403:    m1_hi = m1_hi | 0xFFFF0000
>    404: if m1_lo >> 15 & 0x0001 == 1:
>    405:    m1_lo = m1_lo | 0xFFFF0000
> 
> This is the warning message:
> 
>    pwg.py:403: FutureWarning: hex/oct constants > sys.maxint will return 
>    positive values in Python 2.4 and up
>       m1_hi = m1_hi | 0xFFFF0000

sys.maxint is the largest number that will fit into an int data type. 
Although your constant is 32 bits, the high bit is set, so it gets
interpreted as a negative number.

>>> x = 0xFFFF0000
>>> x
-65536

In future versions of python, constants which are larger than
sys.maxint will not be interpreted as negative, but will automatically
be promoted to a long integer.  The distinction between the two
integer types will pretty much disappear.

So, your constant will evaluate to a positive long integer
(4294901760L).  Since you're using it as a bit mask, and not a number,
I don't think it will make a difference for your application.  But the
compiler can't tell for sure, so it warns you anyway.


From mcfletch at rogers.com  Wed Apr 21 15:11:43 2004
From: mcfletch at rogers.com (Mike C. Fletcher)
Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2004 15:11:43 -0400
Subject: Time
In-Reply-To: <c66fgl$sn4$1@sea.gmane.org>
References: <c66fgl$sn4$1@sea.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <4086C76F.5060505@rogers.com>

That format is the ISO standard date-time format.  The modern way to 
work with date-times in Python is to use the datetime module, so:

 >>> import datetime
 >>> d = datetime.datetime( 2004, 4, 21, 15, 05)
 >>> d.isoformat()
'2004-04-21T15:05:00'

You can use datetime.datetime( * mytuple ) to auto-unpack your tuple, btw.

HTH,
Mike

Jonas Galvez wrote:

>If I have a tuple like this:
>
>    (year, month, day, hour, minute)
>
>Is there a way to automatically generate a string like this?
>
>    "YYYY-MM-DDTHH:MM:00"
>
>I remember seeing something about it somewhere... wanted to be sure.
>  
>
...
_______________________________________
  Mike C. Fletcher
  Designer, VR Plumber, Coder
  http://members.rogers.com/mcfletch/





From Mike at DeleteThis.Geary.com  Sat Apr 24 12:46:54 2004
From: Mike at DeleteThis.Geary.com (Michael Geary)
Date: Sat, 24 Apr 2004 09:46:54 -0700
Subject: Why we will use obj$func() often
References: <8AWhc.23114$dZ1.11070@fed1read04> <40883BFE.B381518A@alcyone.com>
	<27_hc.23801$dZ1.2716@fed1read04> <40887145.789A2FE8@alcyone.com>
	<7cki80hj976bia36lhf9er97v073o1pqvm@4ax.com>
	<w8dic.28710$dZ1.11206@fed1read04> <ulXiAls/KH1K089yn@the-wire.com>
	<lkfic.29767$dZ1.17301@fed1read04>
	<donn-66132E.15345723042004@nntp3.u.washington.edu>
	<PLhic.30493$dZ1.22063@fed1read04> <1082783076.585831@yasure>
	<Tunic.32387$dZ1.12932@fed1read04>
	<bipk80pio4qjk9rl0ucfmk4g4h6s3bkkuu@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <108l6fvhl7fq29c@corp.supernews.com>

David MacQuigg wrote:
> How about instead of decorating variables with special
> symbols or capitalization, we have a rule that says any
> variables with unusual scope must be declared in a
> statement at the top of the function where they are used.
> So for example
>
> def func( x, y ):
>    global   a, b, c    ### module level
>    external d, e, f    ### one level up
>    ...
>
> This would avoid the need for new and unique symbols,
> would unclutter the code in the body of the function, would
> provide a single place where you could see the scope of any
> unusual variable, and would answer the question "What
> external dependencies does this function have?"  Does it
> satisfy the need you are seeing for & variables?

Hey, that is a great idea, David. I definitely like it better than the &
notation. It would work in Python as well as Prothon, and give me clean and
readable closures like I have in JavaScript.

I would want it to mean:

    external d, e, f   # # # search up the scope chain

because I often want to use variables from scopes more than one level up.
And maybe another word would be better than 'external' (although I don't
have one in mind). But the idea is terrific.

> Python added "read access" to external variables, so they
> must have considered "write access" as well.  I don't know
> the history, but I would guess the reason they didn't allow
> this is the same as the reason they don't allow GOTO.  Yes
> it is powerful, but it might encourage bad programming.

We're both speculating, of course, but my guess is simply that automatic
creation of variables by assignment conflicts with writing to variables from
outer scopes. The global statement solves this for global variables, but no
one thought it important enough to do something for nested scopes as well.
Just my guess.

> Can you imagine having to debug a large program where
> none of the functions have any arguments, just &vars buried
> in the bodies of the functions?  That is the kind of code that
> might be written by someone who does not want to think
> ahead.  You can write the call() first, then use & variables
> whenever you need an argument.  These are the kind of
> things that must be considered when looking at a new
> feature for a language.

In JavaScript, I often use nested functions to factor out common operations
within a function--things that are done repeatedly inside that function but
aren't of interest outside the function. Lexical scoping lets me do that
without the nuisance of passing in the same arguments to all these nested
functions, or creating some little object for that purpose. I could post
some sample code if anyone wants, but I fear I may have posted too much
JavaScript code here already. :-) But the point is that I use this very
thing to make my code simpler and more readable.

-Mike




From greg at cosc.canterbury.ac.nz  Thu Apr 22 22:39:19 2004
From: greg at cosc.canterbury.ac.nz (Greg Ewing)
Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2004 14:39:19 +1200
Subject: Why we will use obj$func() often
In-Reply-To: <8AWhc.23114$dZ1.11070@fed1read04>
References: <d2Uhc.22272$dZ1.1600@fed1read04> <84Uhc.22278$dZ1.5087@fed1read04>
	<mailman.927.1082665370.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<8AWhc.23114$dZ1.11070@fed1read04>
Message-ID: <c69vkp$9ul07$1@ID-169208.news.uni-berlin.de>

Mark Hahn wrote:
> Mike C. Fletcher wrote:
>>    By the way, the modern Python idiom is:
>>
>>        super( klass2, self ).func( )
> 
> You're kidding.  That seems like a big leap backwards in friendliness.

Don't worry, the traditional form of super call in Python
isn't going away any time soon. It's not replaced by this;
they do different things.

The new form is occasionally needed, but not very often.
I haven't found a use for it myself yet. (I *thought* I
had found one the other day, but it turned out I hadn't.)

-- 
Greg Ewing, Computer Science Dept,
University of Canterbury,	
Christchurch, New Zealand
http://www.cosc.canterbury.ac.nz/~greg



From danb_83 at yahoo.com  Fri Apr 16 01:26:08 2004
From: danb_83 at yahoo.com (Dan Bishop)
Date: 15 Apr 2004 22:26:08 -0700
Subject: CamelCase versus wide_names (Prothon)
References: <UHxfc.9323$dZ1.3740@fed1read04>
	<Qeyfc.360$kb.30229@news.uswest.net>
	<107tjp2qvgof4b0@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <ad052e5c.0404152126.59ca749e@posting.google.com>

"Michael Geary" <Mike at DeleteThis.Geary.com> wrote in message news:<107tjp2qvgof4b0 at corp.supernews.com>...
> Kevin Altis wrote:
> > If you're using PEP 8 terminology then CamelCase is different
> > than mixedCase. CamelCase is often used for class names and
> > mixedCase for everything else.
> 
> Just to add to the confusing terminology, in some circles mixed case with an
> initial lowercase letter is called camelCase, while mixed case with initial
> uppercase is called PascalCase. :-)

Is there really a standard case convention for Pascal?  What's the
point of having one for a case-insensitive language?
 
> The initial capital letter actually has significance in Prothon (I
> think--unless that has changed). So the question is whether to use
> NamesLikeThis and namesLikeThis, or Names_like_this and names_like_this.

I prefer [Nn]amesLikeThis.  Except for module_names.


From paul at prescod.net  Mon Apr  5 06:09:36 2004
From: paul at prescod.net (Paul Prescod)
Date: Mon, 05 Apr 2004 03:09:36 -0700
Subject: Python is faster than C
In-Reply-To: <36wn05qkeyk.fsf@hundertwasser.ti.uni-mannheim.de>
References: <DE1CF2B4FEC4A342BF62B6B2B334601E561FAC@opus.amorhq.net>
	<mailman.311.1081031736.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<c4qnom$p6j$1@panix1.panix.com>
	<36wn05qkeyk.fsf@hundertwasser.ti.uni-mannheim.de>
Message-ID: <40713060.7080305@prescod.net>

Matthias wrote:

>...
> 
> Isn't the whole idea of very high level languages to shift complexity
> from the user code to the language implementation?  

Shift code, yes. Shift complexity? Not necessarily. Ideally both the 
language implementation and the programs that use the implementation are 
both simple. Unoptimized code tends to be simpler than heavily optimized 
code. If you can get away without optimizing either then you win.

> That's not a rhetorical question: Why is it that "simplicity of the
> Python VM is an important goal"? 



> ... I would guess that overall it pays
> to have a more complex language implementation and be rewarded by
> simpler user code: For any decent language there's much more user code
> out there than language implementation code.

It pays whom? The relatively tiny team of volunteer maintaining the 
Python interpreter? The team at Nokia porting it to cell phones? Jim 
Hugunin porting it to the .NET platform? The Jython guys?

"C is a programming language designed for writing Unix, and it was 
designed using the New Jersey approach. C is therefore a language for 
which it is easy to write a decent compiler, and it requires the 
programmer to write text that is easy for the compiler to interpret. 
Some have called C a fancy assembly language. Both early Unix and C 
compilers had simple structures, are easy to port, require few machine 
resources to run, and provide about 50%--80% of what you want from an 
operating system and programming language.

  Half the computers that exist at any point are worse than median 
(smaller or slower). Unix and C work fine on them. The worse-is-better 
philosophy means that implementation simplicity has highest priority, 
which means Unix and C are easy to port on such machines. Therefore, one 
expects that if the 50% functionality Unix and C support is 
satisfactory, they will start to appear everywhere. And they have, 
haven't they?

  Unix and C are the ultimate computer viruses."

  * http://www.jwz.org/doc/worse-is-better.html

Python is the next viral tchnology.

> One example where Python in the past made (in my opinion, for my
> particular projects) the wrong choice is speed: People argued that
> "simplicity of the Python VM" is more important than speed gains.  The
> result (for my code) was that after profiling, etc., I was coding
> significant parts of my programs in C.  No productivity gain
> observed. With JIT compilation (psyco) this step might become
> unnecessary: More complex VM, greatly simplified user code.

That's why it is great that there are things like Pyrex and Pysco for 
you to use. The fact that you can benefit from them without making 
Guido's life harder (or that of Nokia or ...) is even better!

  Paul Prescod





From thefirstofnovember at yahoo.com  Mon Apr 19 09:54:12 2004
From: thefirstofnovember at yahoo.com (Kim)
Date: 19 Apr 2004 06:54:12 -0700
Subject: Getting output from embedded python program
Message-ID: <2aa196bb.0404190554.74631058@posting.google.com>

Hi everyone,
I'm writing a embeded python program, and I want to evaluate some
expression by calling function:

PyRun_SimpleString("print 'hello'")

I don't want to output it to stdout but putting it into string somehow
sothat I can process it.

Do anybody know how I can do that?
Thanks very much
Kim


From Mike at DeleteThis.Geary.com  Tue Apr 13 12:53:29 2004
From: Mike at DeleteThis.Geary.com (Michael Geary)
Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2004 09:53:29 -0700
Subject: Once-only evaluation of default parameter values function
	definitions
References: <407B79D7.424F65A1@doe.carleton.ca>
	<107n2g6q9an672b@corp.supernews.com>
	<407BB8F5.E694AA49@doe.carleton.ca>
Message-ID: <107o6ob2lhppnbd@corp.supernews.com>

Fred Ma wrote:
> Thanks, Mike.  That's alot clearer.  The default value looks like it's
> a persistent object.  It is similar to a static local variable in C++.
> In Example#1, that object actually got changed.  In contrast, in
> Example#2, the code prevents L from remaining bound to None
> beyond the first line, so the None object never gets changed.  In
> fact, my 2nd explanation was close: that there is an unnamed
> persistent object that holds the default value to be bound to L for
> invocations that don't explicity supply an argument for L. The
> place I went wrong was to say that L never gets bound to None
> again, after it has been bound to a caller supplied object on a
> previous invocation of the function.

That's just about right, Fred. More precisely, the default value is as
persistent as the function definition itself (as opposed to a particular
invocation of the function).

Shalabh's message has some more details and tips.

BTW, I'd say you're doing great for one day with the language!

-Mike




From joe at notcharles.ca  Mon Apr 12 10:58:46 2004
From: joe at notcharles.ca (Joe Mason)
Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2004 14:58:46 GMT
Subject: How to get value of parent class
References: <c5e5fb$irm$1@newshispeed.ch>
Message-ID: <slrnc7lbkh.vrk.joe@gate.notcharles.ca>

In article <c5e5fb$irm$1 at newshispeed.ch>, Jean-Pierre Bergamin wrote:
> Hello
> 
> I have the following class structure:
> 
> 
> class MyServer:
> 
>     x= 0
> 
>     class MyHandler(SocketServer.StreamRequestHandler):
>         def handle(self):
>             if x: # <---- How to get the X from the parent class?
>                   # Or how to pass a value to this class anyway?
>                 do_something()

Just say "MyServer.x".

Joe


From hwlgw at hotmail.com  Wed Apr 14 15:30:22 2004
From: hwlgw at hotmail.com (Will Stuyvesant)
Date: 14 Apr 2004 12:30:22 -0700
Subject: Aspect Programming Module
References: <84fc4588.0404140106.3fa0c55@posting.google.com>
	<slrnc7q1ss.1aa.alf@largo.fayauffre.org>
Message-ID: <cb035744.0404141130.170f51c4@posting.google.com>

> [Alexandre Fayolle, being a good employee]
> You may want to try the logilab.aspects package, available at
> http://www.logilab.org/projects/aspects/

I am afraid you are serious.

AOP is *not needed* for Python programmers.  Plain and simple.

Don't understand?  Try this:

"AOP is a contrived way to get around the limitations of a statically
typed language."

Put that on the logilab website.  And hire somebody to repair the
broken English over there, it looks really, um...oh well I am not a
native English speaker myself either.

-- 
"For the costs of subsidized agriculture in the
EU, we can have all 56 million European cows fly
around the world. First Class."
                -- J. Norberg


From jjl at pobox.com  Mon Apr 19 17:53:55 2004
From: jjl at pobox.com (John J. Lee)
Date: 19 Apr 2004 22:53:55 +0100
Subject: Generic constructors and duplication of internal Python logic
References: <87ekqq41ya.fsf@pobox.com>
	<95aa1afa.0404150033.79a53e1a@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <87k70bzlak.fsf@pobox.com>

michele.simionato at poste.it (Michele Simionato) writes:

> jjl at pobox.com (John J. Lee) wrote in message news:<87ekqq41ya.fsf at pobox.com>...
> > I have to check things like:
> > 
> >  -are there too many positional arguments?
> >  -any unexpected keyword arguments?
> >  -multiple keyword arguments?
> >  -any duplication between positional and keyword arguments?
> > 
> > etc.
> > 
> > Surely there's some easy way of making use of Python's internal logic
> > here?  For some reason, I can't see how.  Can anybody see a way?
> > 
> > 
> > John
> 
> Have you thought of performing the checks in the __call__ method
> of a custom metaclass?

No.  How would that help?


John


From jeremy+plusnews at jeremysanders.net  Sun Apr 18 08:39:41 2004
From: jeremy+plusnews at jeremysanders.net (Jeremy Sanders)
Date: Sun, 18 Apr 2004 13:39:41 +0100
Subject: os.system help
References: <78lgc.3445$AL1.7744@news1.mts.net>
	<Pine.LNX.4.44.0404172009580.3096-100000@e5-05.ee.ualberta.ca>
	<Ywngc.3629$AL1.8293@news1.mts.net>
Message-ID: <pan.2004.04.18.12.39.41.82175@jeremysanders.net>

On Sat, 17 Apr 2004 23:32:01 -0500, Reid Nichol wrote:

> Unfortunately PIL only writes .eps files.  I was going to get the users 
> to install gs but of course it's install directory is variable.  I've 
> tried using shortcuts but that didn't work.
> 
> Since most of my intended users use windows only...

I'm not familiar with GS on Windows, but it may be worth searching the
registry to see whether the install path is written there.

Jeremy
 


From newsuser at itgoesclick.com  Wed Apr 21 16:15:11 2004
From: newsuser at itgoesclick.com (Noah from IT Goes Click)
Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2004 20:15:11 GMT
Subject: Stupid Regex Question
In-Reply-To: <mailman.844.1082565137.20120.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.844.1082565137.20120.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <jDAhc.201084$oR5.105940@pd7tw3no>

small loop problem?

Jonas Galvez wrote:

> I'm feeling dumb:
> 
> str = "<tag>text<innertag>moretext</innertag></tag><tag>text</tag>"
> 
> How can I get a list like ["text<innertag>moretext</innertag>",
> "text"] using regexes? I'm starting to believe it's not possible.
> 
> Yeah, I know about the terror stories about using regexes to parse
> HTML, but in this particular case, using a SAX parser would be an
> horrendous overhead (I mean, it's a ridiculously simple string).
> 
> 
> 
> =-
> Jonas Galvez
> jonasgalvez.com/blog
> macromedia.com/go/team
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 


From joe at notcharles.ca  Wed Apr 14 19:09:07 2004
From: joe at notcharles.ca (Joe Mason)
Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2004 23:09:07 GMT
Subject: Aspect Programming Module
References: <84fc4588.0404140106.3fa0c55@posting.google.com>
	<slrnc7q1ss.1aa.alf@largo.fayauffre.org>
	<cb035744.0404141130.170f51c4@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <slrnc7rh3n.6oq.joe@gate.notcharles.ca>

In article <cb035744.0404141130.170f51c4 at posting.google.com>, Will Stuyvesant wrote:
>> [Alexandre Fayolle, being a good employee]
>> You may want to try the logilab.aspects package, available at
>> http://www.logilab.org/projects/aspects/
> 
> I am afraid you are serious.
> 
> AOP is *not needed* for Python programmers.  Plain and simple.
> 
> Don't understand?  Try this:
> 
> "AOP is a contrived way to get around the limitations of a statically
> typed language."

Care to explain that?  What I've seen of AOP seems like a very dynamic
design philosophy.

Joe


From no.spam at no.spam.com  Tue Apr 20 06:40:04 2004
From: no.spam at no.spam.com (Maciej Sobczak)
Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 12:40:04 +0200
Subject: How to check if a path *could* be a legal path?
Message-ID: <c62ums$b3b$1@atlantis.news.tpi.pl>

Hi,

I have a string.
This string is to be used as a path for a new file.
I would like to check if this string *could be* a valid file name, 
*before* I try to create the file itself.
In other words, I would like to know whether some string violates the 
underlying OS's policies (or maybe some more restriced policies, but 
portable) considering file paths.

Example:

1.
s = 'C:\file.txt'

the above is potentially a valid path on my system.

2.
s = 'cc:/^- =#jk\kj+.+?! :-)'

the above is rather invalid and I would like to check it somehow before 
I even try to create the file.

Does the Python library contain a functionality that allows to achieve 
this goal?

-- 
Maciej Sobczak : http://www.msobczak.com/
Programming    : http://www.msobczak.com/prog/



From newsgroups at jhrothjr.com  Wed Apr 21 06:31:09 2004
From: newsgroups at jhrothjr.com (John Roth)
Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2004 06:31:09 -0400
Subject: When is a __dict__ not a __dict__?
References: <4085f2a4$0$16601$5a62ac22@freenews.iinet.net.au>
Message-ID: <108cjb4qmlsk050@news.supernews.com>


"Derek Fountain" <devnull at example.com> wrote in message
news:4085f2a4$0$16601$5a62ac22 at freenews.iinet.net.au...
> Am I correct in thinking that a Python object which comes from a bit of C
> code doesn't have a __dict__ attribute? I'm trying to poke around inside
> the objects which control the expat XML parser, but they don't seem to
have
> __dict__s.

It depends on the object. Some do, many don't.

John Roth




From nospam at kochandreas.com  Sun Apr 25 14:03:25 2004
From: nospam at kochandreas.com (Andreas Koch)
Date: Sun, 25 Apr 2004 20:03:25 +0200
Subject: Andreas' practical language comparison
In-Reply-To: <TrGdnVUrJdjsahbdRVn-iQ@powergate.ca>
References: <c6glig$phm$07$4@news.t-online.com>
	<TrGdnVUrJdjsahbdRVn-iQ@powergate.ca>
Message-ID: <c6gu81$pk6$05$2@news.t-online.com>

Peter Hansen wrote:


> You might want to put a little more thought into the way you
> present the information there.  As it stands, it appears likely
> to heavily influence people to produce the shortest possible
> programs, rather than the most readable or even most typical for
> a given language.

A valid point. We currently have a discussion about this top
on c.l.misc, where i made my first proposals for my site. Feel
free to join in.


> I sent bubble sort, based on the algorithm, but I'm not going
> to bother with more if this is simply a fewest-lines competition,
> since the first person to post some Perl will win (although K
> appears to be ready to give tight competition in that area,
> if the current list is any indication).

It is on no way a fewest-lines competiton, especially considering
that my favourite language (Delphi) had the most lines in nearly
every test case :-)

I removed the line counts from the overview matrix until we find
a better solution.


-- 
                                   Andreas
He screamed: THIS IS SIG!


From sjf at autograf.pl  Mon Apr 26 08:49:38 2004
From: sjf at autograf.pl (..:: sjf ::..)
Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2004 14:49:38 +0200
Subject: Regular Expressions
Message-ID: <c6j0ht$ed0$1@atlantis.news.tpi.pl>

Hello,

I would like to please to help me with build a regular expression.
There are following piece of html code in my files:

<FONT COLOR="#FF0000">A - TYPE1: any_text<BR>
B - TYPE2: any_text_2<BR>
C - TYPE2: any_text_3<BR>
w - any_text_15<BR>
</FONT>
html code
</BODY></HTML>

I need to have only following data:
(B, any_text_2)
(C, any_text_3)
that is, these data TYPE2 in which.

Thanks in advance

-- 
.:: sjf ::..
"Linux is like Wigwam. No gates, no windows... Apache inside ;-)"


From Kyler at news.Lairds.org  Thu Apr  1 21:08:07 2004
From: Kyler at news.Lairds.org (Kyler Laird)
Date: Fri, 02 Apr 2004 02:08:07 GMT
Subject: Pyrex gets a perfect score.
References: <lhntj1-u62.ln1@snout.lairds.org>
	<905fcd91.0404011433.6681abd9@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <qrruj1-n75.ln1@snout.lairds.org>

rlratzel at siliconmetrics.com (Rick Ratzel) writes:

>...just curious...did you look at Elmer
>(http://elmer.sourceforge.net)? 

I hadn't.  (I'm partial to Debian packages.)

The description "Elmer is not a Python-to-C or Python-to-Tcl
translator" makes me think that it's not appropriate for what I need
right now - the ability to submit only C code.

It does look like it would be useful for later work though.  I think
it's likely to provide cleaner interfaces than what I was able to
generate using Pyrex.

Thank you.

--kyler


From peter at engcorp.com  Sat Apr 10 08:31:01 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Sat, 10 Apr 2004 08:31:01 -0400
Subject: Python for MPG
In-Reply-To: <cb035744.0404100025.35f3f652@posting.google.com>
References: <cb035744.0404100025.35f3f652@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <NqadneQPjuSYdOrdRVn-ug@powergate.ca>

Will Stuyvesant wrote:

> Is there Python software for dealing with MPG movies?  I am not
> interested in visual effects etc. but in cutting scenes from big MGP
> files and creating new files with those scenes.

Found via Google: http://www.mpgedit.org/mpgedit/



From root at mbtricot.it  Sun Apr 25 10:41:43 2004
From: root at mbtricot.it (root at mbtricot.it)
Date: Sun, 25 Apr 2004 16:41:43 +0200
Subject: Virus Alert
Message-ID: <200404251441.i3PEfhV20325@linuxbox.mbtricot.it>

The mail message (file: email-body) you sent to mbtfederico contains a virus. (InterScan on linuxbox.mbtricot.it)



From fumanchu at amor.org  Fri Apr 23 01:24:19 2004
From: fumanchu at amor.org (Robert Brewer)
Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2004 22:24:19 -0700
Subject: Deleting objects - my earler post got garbled
Message-ID: <DE1CF2B4FEC4A342BF62B6B2B334601E56204B@opus.amorhq.net>

Asun Friere wrote:
> "Martin v. L?wis" <martin at v.loewis.de> wrote in message 
> news:<40883067.4000702 at v.loewis.de>...
> 
> > There is no way to explicitly delete an object in Python.
> 
> So what does "del <object>" actually do then?

There is no "del <object>", only "del <name>". Therefore:

"Deletion of a name removes the binding of that name from the local or global namespace, depending on whether the name occurs in a global statement in the same code block."

as written at: http://docs.python.org/ref/del.html


Robert Brewer
MIS
Amor Ministries
fumanchu at amor.org



From mcfletch at rogers.com  Mon Apr  5 16:43:23 2004
From: mcfletch at rogers.com (Mike C. Fletcher)
Date: Mon, 05 Apr 2004 16:43:23 -0400
Subject: slightly OT: BUT NEEDs to be said
In-Reply-To: <8b42d1998c978c8c1cddf15c52a1c57b@dizum.com>
References: <lvOdnRJzZ9244ezdRVn-uQ@powergate.ca>
	<8b42d1998c978c8c1cddf15c52a1c57b@dizum.com>
Message-ID: <4071C4EB.9070404@rogers.com>

Oh, I *so* have more important things to do :) , but okay, I'll play 
along for a few seconds...

Nomen Nescio wrote:

>In article <lvOdnRJzZ9244ezdRVn-uQ at powergate.ca>, Peter Hansen <peter at engcorp.com>
>wrote:
>  
>
...

>Cuddly cartoon characters like the Snake, or various BSD creatures = highly
>acceptable and good.
>  
>
In terms of "acceptable and good" I think you'll find that Snakes and 
Devils/Daemons aren't really high on many people's lists, but then you 
know that and are just yanking the chain ;) .

>MPFC = too aristically/politically/socially 'loaded' to be acceptable.
>  
>
Here's the thing, you object to the use of MPFC because you see the 
particular show as a *silly* waste of money.  It's *not taking yourself 
so seriously that you lose your sense of humour* that makes MPFC a fine 
choice.

The commercial-tower Oak runs around telling the world that it's the 
second coming of computer science, the caffeinated solution to all your 
problems if you'll just sit down and drink the acorn tea.  It knows that 
if it can just scream loud enough then people will overlook it's poor 
character and weird obsessions and maybe pronounce it king.

Python hasn't developed that level of insecurity, it's perfectly willing 
to admit its failings, it's happy to poke fun at itself and admit that 
it needs C to be successful; sure, it's better and more privileged than 
all of the other programming languages; sure, it's had the best 
education and derived huge benefit from it; sure, it's received 
patronage from the programming elite; sure, it has metaclasses, list 
comprehensions and descriptors like any decent ivory-tower language; but 
in the end, all that means nothing if it can't find the humanity in the 
situation of explaining things to computers, if you can't make 
programming just a little easier for the regular folks.

And if you are taking all *that* seriously, then really, go do a funny 
walk somewhere and relax about it. We all pay taxes, and sometimes it 
funds things we don't like, it's part of modern life.  Sometimes other 
people like TV shows we think are insipid or offensive, this too is part 
of life, and if you realise and accept that (within reason) you'll be 
happier and more content.

Oh, and I like the snake more than the TV show too ;) .

Good luck with coming to terms with all this,
Mike

_______________________________________
  Mike C. Fletcher
  Designer, VR Plumber, Coder
  http://members.rogers.com/mcfletch/





From dwelch91 at comcast.net  Sun Apr  4 18:15:49 2004
From: dwelch91 at comcast.net (djw)
Date: Sun, 04 Apr 2004 22:15:49 GMT
Subject: splitting a long token across lines
In-Reply-To: <ef0c9173.0404032349.742f59e6@posting.google.com>
References: <ef0c9173.0404032349.742f59e6@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <oO%bc.184199$Cb.1704047@attbi_s51>

Nakamura wrote:
> Hi all,
> 
> Say, I have a very long integer constant , how can
> I split across lines ?
> I tried something like
> MODULUS = 7567567567567567567567567567567\
>           7567507546546986094860986094860\
>           2345646986598695869548498698989\
>           ...
> but it doesn't compile.
> Is there another way to write a long numeric constant besides writing
> it as a string and then converting to long? I also wouldn't like to put
> it all on one very long line.
> 
> Thanks!

Well, I _suppose_ you could do this:


MODULUS = "7567567567567567567567567567567"\
            7567507546546986094860986094860"\
            2345646986598695869548498698989"\
            ...

MODULUS = int(MODULUS)

I'm sure I'm going to have to take some flak for this, though. I 
wouldn't do it. What's wrong with really long lines? Anything you do 
that I can see is going to obscure your code.

-D


From nmkolev at uni-bonn.de  Sun Apr  4 10:25:44 2004
From: nmkolev at uni-bonn.de (Nickolay Kolev)
Date: 4 Apr 2004 14:25:44 GMT
Subject: =?utf-8?q?Re=3A_Working_with_a_list_in_a_more_=C2=84pythonic?=
	=?utf-8?b?wpMgd2F5?=
References: <20040404124833458+0200@news.rhrz.uni-bonn.de> 
	<ld5070hrs9d9hf2h0v3535l4ho51pqlsr5@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <20040404162551445+0200@news.rhrz.uni-bonn.de>

> def get_val(x):
>   # gets the value from SSMatrix, now dumb
>   return ord(x)

The point is to sum the transitions *between* the characters and the 
matrix only contains those scores. So "getting the value from SSMatrix" 
for a single character makes no sense (and is impossible).

Nicky


From bwglitch at hotpop.com  Tue Apr 13 09:47:17 2004
From: bwglitch at hotpop.com (BW Glitch)
Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2004 08:47:17 -0500
Subject: Logging Stacktrace To File
In-Reply-To: <407bdce5$1_1@newspeer2.tds.net>
References: <407bcbca$1_2@newspeer2.tds.net>
	<eovsk1-e02.ln1@wintermute.g2ctech>
	<407bdce5$1_1@newspeer2.tds.net>
Message-ID: <c5gne9$1f9to$1@ID-203388.news.uni-berlin.de>

Olaf Meding wrote:

>>... have to catch the exception and then log it to the file.
> 
> 
> Right.  I do also know how to open a file and write to it.
> 
> But how do I get at the stack trace?  I would like to have it look the same
> in the file as what gets printed to the screen.

The traceback module provides you with that hook. The function is 
traceback.print_exc and you can pass a file-like object in the second 
parameter.

-- 
Glitch

http://andres980.tripod.com/tf.html

"... You WIN, you depraved wad a' stinkin' slag."
"Cultivated as always, even in defeat."
         -- Rattrap and Megatron, "Fallen Comrades"


From no.email at please.com  Mon Apr 12 05:54:53 2004
From: no.email at please.com (Stevie_Mac)
Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2004 10:54:53 +0100
Subject: pythonwin crash (used to work) - please help quick.
References: <5Reec.62668$Id.61067@news-binary.blueyonder.co.uk>
	<mailman.537.1081743469.20120.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <c5dp0d$2ebl$2@news.wplus.net>

I think seen somthing like this on net somewhere when i was searching.

So if I understand this, a python GUI can't debug a script that uses code
from any other GUI implementation (like wx for example)?

If so, dang! Whats my options - different IDE - or - no debug!

wait, im sure when I tried to run the script direct (through python and
pythonw) it still bombed - but in pyShell it didn't - hows that?

Stevie_Mac :confused:


"Paul Prescod" <paul at prescod.net> wrote in message
news:mailman.537.1081743469.20120.python-list at python.org...
> Stevie_mac wrote:
>
> > OS=XP, Python 2.3, wx2.5.1.5u
> > Not sure what's to blame here - or to be more precise, how to fix it!...
> >
> > If I do this in PythonWin...
> > import wx
> > d = wx.Dialog(None, -1, 'title')
> > BANG - IDE crashes
>
> It typically doesn't work to have two GUIs in one process. PythonWin
> uses MFC. Wx is a totally different GUI.
>
>   Paul Prescod
>
>
>





From ae  Mon Apr 12 18:05:16 2004
From: ae (A Evans)
Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2004 15:05:16 -0700
Subject: I am puzled about numbers
References: <107lvs6mree8pee@corp.supernews.com>
	<107m446tlvs9u01@corp.supernews.com>
	<4NqdnV5ZNrU-jObdRVn-hA@powergate.ca>
Message-ID: <107m4l5bl2kq759@corp.supernews.com>

Hey Sorry about that I will remember to search google next time before
asking questions on the forum

Thanks for the link

Cheers





From beliavsky at aol.com  Thu Apr 29 10:06:59 2004
From: beliavsky at aol.com (beliavsky at aol.com)
Date: 29 Apr 2004 07:06:59 -0700
Subject: debugging code
References: <3064b51d.0404271139.6ec7057@posting.google.com>
	<408ee541$0$46510$39cecf19@news.twtelecom.net>
	<3064b51d.0404280658.ccf1894@posting.google.com>
	<408fe602$0$3708$39cecf19@news.twtelecom.net>
Message-ID: <3064b51d.0404290606.1fe669aa@posting.google.com>

Rick Ratzel <rick.ratzel at magma-da.com> wrote in message news:<408fe602$0$3708$39cecf19 at news.twtelecom.net>...
> beliavsky at aol.com wrote:
> > 
> > <SNIP>
> > 
> > Thanks -- I will take your suggestion. Where are the Python command
> > line options like -O and -OO documented? Typing 'python -h' just gives
> > me
> > 
> > -O     : optimize generated bytecode (a tad; also PYTHONOPTIMIZE=x)
> > -OO    : remove doc-strings in addition to the -O optimizations
> 
>     Thats strange.  Here they are for Python 2.3.3 as built on my system 
> (should be the same for you):

<SNIP>

I get the same output from 'python -h'. What I meant to say is that I
am looking for more detailed documentation of the Python interpreter
options. I looked briefly on python.org and did not find it.


From mark at prothon.org  Fri Apr 23 17:00:03 2004
From: mark at prothon.org (Mark Hahn)
Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2004 14:00:03 -0700
Subject: Why we will use obj$func() often
References: <d2Uhc.22272$dZ1.1600@fed1read04> <84Uhc.22278$dZ1.5087@fed1read04>
	<mailman.927.1082665370.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<8AWhc.23114$dZ1.11070@fed1read04>
	<mailman.939.1082697809.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<+PXiAls/Kj/Q089yn@the-wire.com>
Message-ID: <otfic.29880$dZ1.2347@fed1read04>


"Mel Wilson" <mwilson at the-wire.com> wrote ...

>     connection = serial.Serial ( ... )
>         # connection is a file-like object,
>         # having the usual `write` method
>
>     engine = MyFiniteStateMachine ()
>         # engine happens to have a `writer` method that
>         # funnels out the machines products
>         # The default is effectively `def writer (self, s): print s`
>
>     engine.writer = connection.write
>         # we channel engine's output through the serial connection
>
>    Plugged together, it just works, as Mike says.  No
> trouble when engine's internal calls to `self.writer` end up
> accessing a completely different object's method.  It's only
> lately that I've stopped to gawp at it, and wonder.

That is a powerful testimonial to the "walks like a duck" principal which
has nothing to do with classes or prototypes.  Thankfully that works in a
simple classless language like the current Prothon.




From greg at cosc.canterbury.ac.nz  Mon Apr 26 20:47:56 2004
From: greg at cosc.canterbury.ac.nz (Greg Ewing)
Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2004 12:47:56 +1200
Subject: Why we will use obj$func() often
In-Reply-To: <SN%ic.37580$dZ1.14964@fed1read04>
References: <d2Uhc.22272$dZ1.1600@fed1read04> <84Uhc.22278$dZ1.5087@fed1read04>
	<mailman.927.1082665370.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<8AWhc.23114$dZ1.11070@fed1read04> <40883BFE.B381518A@alcyone.com>
	<27_hc.23801$dZ1.2716@fed1read04> <40887145.789A2FE8@alcyone.com>
	<7cki80hj976bia36lhf9er97v073o1pqvm@4ax.com>
	<w8dic.28710$dZ1.11206@fed1read04> <ulXiAls/KH1K089yn@the-wire.com>
	<lkfic.29767$dZ1.17301@fed1read04>
	<donn-66132E.15345723042004@nntp3.u.washington.edu>
	<PLhic.30493$dZ1.22063@fed1read04> <1082783076.585831@yasure>
	<Tunic.32387$dZ1.12932@fed1read04>
	<c6hvdk$bs63j$1@ID-169208.news.uni-berlin.de>
	<SN%ic.37580$dZ1.14964@fed1read04>
Message-ID: <c6kajs$cgj7g$1@ID-169208.news.uni-berlin.de>

Mark Hahn wrote:
> You cannot.  Yes it literally means the immediately surrounding function.
> In your example, I can't think of any scheme we've discussed that accesses x
> in function f.  Python surely cannot.

Python can't write to it, but at least it can read it.
Prothon apparently can't even read it.

 > As always, I'm open to suggestions...

I can't think of any way to fix this that preserves the
single-pass requirement, short of introducing some kind
of declaration in the scope where the variable is defined.

-- 
Greg Ewing, Computer Science Dept,
University of Canterbury,	
Christchurch, New Zealand
http://www.cosc.canterbury.ac.nz/~greg



From simoninusa2001 at yahoo.co.uk  Sat Apr 10 02:56:42 2004
From: simoninusa2001 at yahoo.co.uk (simo)
Date: 9 Apr 2004 23:56:42 -0700
Subject: wxListCtrl with CheckBox?
Message-ID: <30260531.0404092256.6b58e3a1@posting.google.com>

I've got a report list and want to have a checkbox in the last column
of each row.

I can't use SetItem to put the control there, not even a ToggleBox,
and I haven't been able to superimpose the checkbox on top of the
ListCtrl either (that was a desperate attempt, which would have
involved lots of nasty looping to get the position for each row!)

The only way to do it I've seen is to have an image that switches when
you click:

   http://wiki.wxwindows.org/wiki.pl?WxListCtrl

But then I don't think you will get the right event (you only get the
row click event, not neccesarily the image click) and I already have a
row click event, plus I'm pretty sure images are only for the first
column.

Is there a better way? I was hoping wxWidgets 2.5 was going to have
this widget, or better still, the ability to put any [reasonable]
control into a list cell....

On a side note, I've just installed wxPython and Python 2.3 onto a
friend's LindowsOS box using a single apt-get command, it was a much
nicer experience than compiling everything in RedHat9 and then
rebuilding an RPM to upgrade to 2.5.1.5


From NAIGIMSESRIMAIL at gims.com  Thu Apr  1 05:53:55 2004
From: NAIGIMSESRIMAIL at gims.com (GroupShield for Exchange (ESRIMAIL))
Date: Thu, 1 Apr 2004 12:53:55 +0200 
Subject: ALERT -  GroupShield ticket number OB70_1080816829_ESRIMAIL_3 was
	generated
Message-ID: <B06B8FEF47ACD7119E720040F428459102124D15@ESRIMAIL>

Action Taken:
The message was blocked because of its subject.

To:
python-list at python.org <python-list at python.org>

From:
Peter Otten <__peter__ at web.de>

Sent:
-1653591296,29628375

Subject:
Re: test for nan

Attachment Details:-

Attachment Name: N/A
File: Infected.msg
Infected? No
Repaired? No
Blocked? Yes
Deleted? No
Virus Name: 



	
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From dmq at gain.com  Fri Apr  9 18:09:32 2004
From: dmq at gain.com (David MacQuigg)
Date: Fri, 09 Apr 2004 15:09:32 -0700
Subject: A 'Python like' language
References: <40645d8f$0$10775$afc38c87@news.easynet.co.uk>
	<roy-C66405.13534526032004@reader1.panix.com>
	<pan.2004.03.26.19.25.10.846910@virgilio.it>
	<1f9c60dtvj2alu8lk522l29nerqrv0trv3@4ax.com>
	<c482r3$8hp$1@panix1.panix.com>
	<v2fg60l6oi786vcu18622ebn8nttqrotv5@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <jk7e701p1b9bbdq56eco26g0hsh612a5en@4ax.com>

On Mon, 29 Mar 2004 16:19:09 +0100, Stephen Horne
<steve at ninereeds.fsnet.co.uk> wrote:

>On 28 Mar 2004 21:49:07 -0500, aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz) wrote:
>
>>In article <1f9c60dtvj2alu8lk522l29nerqrv0trv3 at 4ax.com>,
>>Stephen Horne  <steve at ninereeds.fsnet.co.uk> wrote:
>>>
>>>I missed that. There's good precedent - it's the Pascal 'with' block,
>>>but better (the leading dot tells you that you're dealing with a
>>>'with' item rather than normal scoping rules). But - well - just
>>>recently, people keep telling me that indented blocks are purely about
>>>control flow. I keep disagreeing, but no-one has bothered agreeing
>>>with me so I was feeling rather lonely and miserable in this crusade
>>>:-(
>>
>>Huh?  Where were they telling you that?  (I don't read all of c.l.py by
>>a long shot, 'specially when I've just gotten back from PyCon.)  From my
>>POV, indented blocks are about program structure and namespaces.  Saying
>>that ``class`` refers purely to control flow definitely misses the point.
>
>My replies were...
>
>Message-ID: <euc160tp0l8hsts9l8rjvhgv3n6nhk0d81 at 4ax.com>
>
>Message-ID: <j69b601d6m5uhjp7jc43fbcsu3jdj62pdb at 4ax.com>
>
>I'm sure google can give you the full threads.

I guess I'm the culprit here.  I made the erroneous statement in a
post a while back.  Stephen corrected it.  I failed to acknowledge.
Got too busy with the Prothon mailing list, I guess.  Anyway, I'm
back.

-- Dave



From peter at engcorp.com  Thu Apr  8 09:43:12 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Thu, 08 Apr 2004 09:43:12 -0400
Subject: OT: Esperanto again (was Re: why is python better than eg.
 smalltalk?? )
In-Reply-To: <407524df$0$5066$4d4ebb8e@news.nl.uu.net>
References: <20031028061245.12451.00000133@mb-m01.aol.com>
	<mailman.237.1067515722.702.python-list@python.org>
	<opr53783cbmyya52@news.kadnet.dom>
	<4074f954$0$5802$79c14f64@nan-newsreader-02.noos.net>
	<407524df$0$5066$4d4ebb8e@news.nl.uu.net>
Message-ID: <2dydnWcBufhsy-jdRVn-hA@powergate.ca>

aku wrote:

> On 2004-04-08, francois lepoutre <franck.lepoutre at caramail.com> wrote:
> 
>> http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&selm=3A2DD2CA.14A5D7E2%40engcorp.com&prev=/groups%3Fq%3Dpython%2520%2522van%2520rossum%2522%2520esperanto%26hl%3Den%26lr%3D%26ie%3DUTF-8%26oe%3DUTF-8%26sa%3DN%26tab%3Dwg
> 
> The article talks about Esperanto and says:
> "Still widely spoken in that country"
> 
> This is humor people. there's as many people speaking Esperanto
> here as that are walking on the moon right now.

As the author of that, I have to object slightly.  Yes, it was
humor, but there are most definitely more people in the
Netherlands who speak Esperanto than there are people walking
on the moon, unless my lack of television has led to me missing
a few key events in the world of space exploration in the last
few years...

(Neither, however, is it really fair to say it's "widely
spoken", in the Netherlands, if one equates that to a large
number of speakers instead of merely to diversity of geographic
location...)

-Peter


From __peter__ at web.de  Mon Apr  5 13:15:01 2004
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Mon, 05 Apr 2004 19:15:01 +0200
Subject: recursive file editing
References: <pan.2004.04.03.20.25.28.565809@interfree.it>
	<ccFbc.4784$zf6.64753@news4.e.nsc.no>
	<pan.2004.04.03.22.42.10.659781@interfree.it>
	<c4no62$6so$1@news.service.uci.edu>
	<pan.2004.04.05.16.40.22.824776@interfree.it>
Message-ID: <c4s46m$5s0$03$1@news.t-online.com>

TaeKyon wrote:

> Il Sat, 03 Apr 2004 17:22:04 -0800, Josiah Carlson ha scritto:
> 
>> for thing in os.walk('mydir'):
>>      filehandle = file(thing, 'r+')
> 
> I'm such a newbe I can't get it to work. Here is an example:
> 
> in empty directory foo I touch a b c d;
> suppose I want to write "This works !" in each of these files.
> 
> I run python
>>>> import os
>>>> for thing in os.walk('foo'):
> ...     thingopen = file(thing,'r+')
> ...     thingopen.write("This works !")
> ...     thingopen.close()
> ...
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "<stdin>", line 2, in ?
> TypeError: coercing to Unicode: need string or buffer, tuple found
> 
> And in fact:
> 
>>>> for thing in os.walk('foo'):
> ...     print thing
> ...
> ('foo', [], ['a', 'b', 'c', 'd'])
> 
> which is a tuple, I suppose.
> 
> Selecting thing[2] doesn't help, because it now complains of it being a
> list.
> 
> In the end I get this to work:
> 
> for filetuple in os.walk('foo'):
> ...     for filename in filetuple[2]:
> ...         fileopen = file(filename, 'r+')
>             fileopen.write("This works !")
>             fileopen.close()
> 
> which seems a bit of a clumsy way to do it.
> And besides it only works if I run python from directory foo,
> otherwise it tells me "no such file or directory".

A minimal working example is:

import os
for path, folders, files in os.walk("/path/to/folder"):
    for name in files:
        filepath = os.path.join(path, name)
        fileopen = file(filepath, 'r+')
        fileopen.write("This works !")
        fileopen.close()

You need to compose the filepath, and, yes, it's a bit clumsy.
I've written a little generator function to hide some of the clumsiness:

def files(folder):
    for path, folders, files in os.walk(folder):
        for name in files:
            yield os.path.join(path, name)

With that the code is simplified to:

for filepath in files("/path/to/folder"):
    fileopen = file(filepath, 'r+')
    fileopen.write("This works !")
    fileopen.close()

HTH,
Peter




From loic at fejoz.net  Fri Apr  9 04:05:48 2004
From: loic at fejoz.net (Yermat)
Date: Fri, 09 Apr 2004 10:05:48 +0200
Subject: Function args
In-Reply-To: <c55g8u$vvg$1@s1.read.news.oleane.net>
References: <sdqdc.37060$zm5.15866@nntpserver.swip.net>
	<c55f5r$f2l$1@news-reader4.wanadoo.fr>
	<c55g8u$vvg$1@s1.read.news.oleane.net>
Message-ID: <c55li7$oet$2@arcturus.ciril.fr>



Jean-Michel Caricand wrote:
> Bonjour Michel et mer?i pour la r?ponse tr?s rapide. Je tiens ? pr?ciser que
> nous d?veloppons en interne
> en langage Perl. Ma question peut donc sembler b?te pour des programmeurs
> Python.
> 
> Apr?s maintes recherches, je n'ai pas trouv? d'exemples me permettant de
> comprendre le m?canisme employ?
> par Python pour passer un simple nombre ? une fonction et le modifier
> r?ellement.
> 
> Imaginons que je veuille ?crire une fonction qui permute deux variables,
> j'?cris :
> 
> def permuter(a,b):
>   c = b
>   b = a
>   a = c
> 
> Si tout est objet, donc pass? par r?f?rence a et b devraient ?tre r?ellement
> modifier ? Pourtant ce n'est pas le cas.
> 
> [...]

En plus "permuter" est un mauvais exemple psuique l'on peut faire :
 >>> a = 1
 >>> b = 2
 >>> print a, b
1 2
 >>> (a, b) = (b, a)
 >>> print a, b
2 1

En gros, tous les types primitifs de python sont "expans?s", autrement 
dit quand on les affecte ? une autre variable, c'est une copie.
Tous les types complexes sont des r?f?rences.

Yermat



From mwh at python.net  Mon Apr  5 09:11:33 2004
From: mwh at python.net (Michael Hudson)
Date: Mon, 5 Apr 2004 13:11:33 GMT
Subject: Python is faster than C
References: <DE1CF2B4FEC4A342BF62B6B2B334601E561FAC@opus.amorhq.net>
	<mailman.311.1081031736.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<c4qnom$p6j$1@panix1.panix.com>
	<36wn05qkeyk.fsf@hundertwasser.ti.uni-mannheim.de>
Message-ID: <m3n05qtvqz.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk>

Matthias <no at spam.pls> writes:

> aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz) writes:
> > While I'm generally in favor of what you're talking about, it seems to a
> > certain extent that you're simply shifting complexity.  Maintaining the
> > simplicity of the Python VM is an important goal, I think, and some of
> > your suggestions run counter to that goal.
> 
> Isn't the whole idea of very high level languages to shift complexity
> from the user code to the language implementation?  
> 
> That's not a rhetorical question: Why is it that "simplicity of the
> Python VM is an important goal"?  

Well, possibly because it's easier to predict what a simple
implementation is up to.

Cheers,
mwh

-- 
  You sound surprised.  We're talking about a government department
  here - they have procedures, not intelligence.
                                            -- Ben Hutchings, cam.misc


From mark at prothon.org  Fri Apr 30 01:53:43 2004
From: mark at prothon.org (Mark Hahn)
Date: Thu, 29 Apr 2004 22:53:43 -0700
Subject: What is good about Prothon?
References: <bniq80hiib0gauiltuntk9jvia2getbnj4@4ax.com>
	<69cbbef2.0404271534.6a7c90e6@posting.google.com>
	<oiCjc.9622$Qy.6230@fed1read04>
	<69cbbef2.0404280722.704c7c97@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <dTlkc.36941$Qy.19071@fed1read04>

has wrote:

> Eh, I'll see what I can do. Here's a short example to get you started:

This is plenty.  I'm getting a good idea of what is going on here.

> In AS, every compiled script is itself a script object. Scripts can be
> loaded into other scripts using the 'load script' command; this
> provides the foundation for library-based design.

I see no difference from a Prothon module so far (which is good).

> Script objects can
> also be declared within other script objects and handlers (aka
> procedures) using the 'script [identifier]...end script' block. This,
> along with their support for delegation via the 'parent' property,
> allows you to do prototype-based OOP.

Oh, so the script is also the function.  That is a bit limiting, not having
functions within a script.

>  Incidentally, because script
> objects have first-class syntactic support, they also support modular
> design within a single file, sectioning off parts as separate
> namespaces without having to move code off into separate files as
> you'd do in Python;

This I REALLY like.  I'll put this on the list of ideas to "steal" for
Prothon.

> Thus a single, very generic type (script) can perform all the roles
> that it takes Python several specialised and largely
> non-interchangeable types (classobj, instance, module) to do.

Prothon is the same.  Using a module as a prototype is a trick that recently
paid off.  We have no structure or rules making one object unable to play
the role of another.  As we slowly unwind our brains from class-thinking
(not an easy task) I expect the benefits to pour forth.

> Other nice stuff: while AS allows only a single delegate per object,
> the ability to compose object behaviour at runtime makes it much more
> powerful than class-based single inheritance, and less of a PITA to
> use than MI. Just create and delegate-chain together the objects you
> want as and when you need them.

You don't have to convince me that dynamic delegation is good.

> [* Python shouldn't feel too smug, however, seeing as I had no better
> luck trying to dynamically attach property objects to class instances,
> and had to resort to sticking nodes into a private dict accessed via
> __getattr__ and __setattr__.]

We'll make sure Prothon can feel smug in this regard.

> Good programmers know how to add features;
> great ones know how NOT to.

I will be sure to remember that after Prothon is designed.  Right now we are
not adding features to Prothon, we are designing version 0.1.  You have to
add features when you start with zero features.  Even you must admit a
language with zero features is unintresting :)




From martin at v.loewis.de  Sun Apr 18 13:56:56 2004
From: martin at v.loewis.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?=22Martin_v=2E_L=F6wis=22?=)
Date: Sun, 18 Apr 2004 19:56:56 +0200
Subject: using a USB HID device
In-Reply-To: <40827ce3.1151345337@news.xs4all.nl>
References: <40827ce3.1151345337@news.xs4all.nl>
Message-ID: <c5ufh6$rok$02$1@news.t-online.com>

Wouter van Ooijen (www.voti.nl) wrote:
> I want to use Python to interface with an USB HID device (not a
> keyboard or mouse, just something that uses the HID driver to avoid
> the need for a specific driver). Is this possible in pure Python on
> Windows, or even better, in a portable way?

What is the Win32 API for such devices? If it is plain
CreateFile/ReadFile/WriteFile/DeviceIoControl, you should be
able to do it in pure Python, using the PythonWin extensions.

Likewise, on Unix, you can use device nodes, and the fcntl module.

I don't think there is a platform-independent Python module for
such devices, yet, but you could write your own abstraction layer
using those building blocks.

HTH,
Martin



From peter at engcorp.com  Fri Apr 16 12:44:24 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2004 12:44:24 -0400
Subject: AOP use cases
In-Reply-To: <0pydnSB4WYuieuLdRVn-hQ@powergate.ca>
References: <84fc4588.0404140106.3fa0c55@posting.google.com>
	<slrnc7q1ss.1aa.alf@largo.fayauffre.org>
	<cb035744.0404141130.170f51c4@posting.google.com>
	<slrnc7sgat.vp.alf@largo.fayauffre.org>
	<cb035744.0404160442.2f0b1661@posting.google.com>
	<0pydnSB4WYuieuLdRVn-hQ@powergate.ca>
Message-ID: <35qdnT4kNsX1kB3dRVn-gg@powergate.ca>

Peter Hansen wrote:
> I would be very interested to hear some real-world and real useful
> use cases for AOP as well.  So far, the logging example seems to
> be put forth so often that I'm starting to suspect that's the
> *only* "useful" thing people are doing with it. :-)
> 
>  From direct personal experience, could some AOP folks please
> point out some compelling use cases so that the doubting
> Thomases (and Wills, and Peters) can better understand and
> accept the idea of AOP as being more than just a few fringe
> cases?

Thanks for the replies so far, but what concerns me is that
almost no one seems to have actually used AOP in their code.

Okay, I realize this is not the best forum to find a bunch of
AOPers, probably, so I'd like to expand the request to include
pointers to clear descriptions of *others'* compelling uses
of AOP.  Not just cool or theoretical ideas, but actual
cases of AOP having been used for things where non-AOP
would have been much more awkward or involved or something.

The logging example is okay, yes, but another problem I have
with it is that it's very development-oriented.  It doesn't
do anything directly for the user in terms of helping implement
user functionality.  Same goes for the contract aspect, which
while probably very helpful for doing dBc in some cases, appears
just to make a particular development style go easier.

I'm not sure I'm asking this in the right way, but does AOP
provide one with the ability to do anything useful in terms
of actual end-user functionality, and if so please point me
to a description of a real-world case where it did so.

I'm not actually anti-AOP, just completely on the fence about
the possible benefits.  I like the Fourier Transform way of
viewing it, but it's possible to relate FTs back to the real
world in a pretty direct manner as they just allow an easy
way to work in the frequency domain.  What, in the AOP world,
is the equivalent to "frequency"?

-Peter


From fredrik at pythonware.com  Fri Apr 16 07:05:38 2004
From: fredrik at pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2004 13:05:38 +0200
Subject: Tkinter Button image option
References: <8d3ec.74988$Ig.46341@pd7tw2no>
Message-ID: <c5oele$990$1@sea.gmane.org>

Elaine Jackson wrote:

> When I try to put an image onto a Tkinter button, I get a message that
says the
> image in question "doesn't exist" (it does, though). One of the references
I
> looked at said that Tkinter has to be "configured for" the Python Imaging
> Library in order for the 'image' option to work. I've got the PIL, but as
for
> "configuration", I don't know. Maybe I need to reinstall Tcl/Tk? If anyone
can
> point me to the appropriate resource, I'd be very much obliged.

did you get an error similar to this:

    TclError: image "pyimage1" doesn't exist

a common reason for this is that you have multiple Tk instances in
your application.

if you create a PhotoImage under one Tk instance, you cannot access
it from other instances.

to fix this, make sure you only use one Tk instance (use Toplevel to create
new toplevel windows), or make sure that you create the image under the
same instance as the widget you're going to use it in.  the easiest way to
do
this is to pass in a master keyword argument to the PhotoImage constructor:

    photo = PhotoImage(..., master=myroot)
    button = Button(myroot, ...)
    button.photo = photo # keep a reference

(if the file you're trying to load doesn't exist,

</F>






From moosebumps at moosebumps.com  Sat Apr 24 03:13:06 2004
From: moosebumps at moosebumps.com (Moosebumps)
Date: Sat, 24 Apr 2004 07:13:06 GMT
Subject: python for console game development, memory tracking
Message-ID: <6soic.40551$c77.17448@newssvr29.news.prodigy.com>

When I have time, I am planning to evaluate Python for console game
development (on Playstation 2, GameCube, and Xbox).  Does anyone have any
experience with this?

Pretty much the only resource I have found, and the only thing that makes me
think it might be possible is this:

http://asbahr.com/python.html

I would be interested to hear anybody's experience with Python on consoles.

Before I even begin investigating though, there is a major question I have:
How can you track the memory usage of Python?  I would like to be able to
track allocations by function / class, etc.  I have googled and seen a bunch
of threads with 1 guy asking the same exact question that I am, and no
responses, which leads me to believe it's very easy or not possible.  This
would be dealbreaker unfortunately.  But I am optimistic that Python is well
designed so there must be some solution.

thanks,
MB




From tzot at sil-tec.gr  Wed Apr  7 05:20:38 2004
From: tzot at sil-tec.gr (Christos TZOTZIOY Georgiou)
Date: Wed, 07 Apr 2004 12:20:38 +0300
Subject: An attempt at guessing the encoding of a (non-unicode) string
References: <c1sq60t7af0lgs1ovilg6ds220dkc0inpd@4ax.com>
	<eppstein-8C467F.14490702042004@news.service.uci.edu>
	<6pa270h031thgleo4a31itktb95n9e4rvm@4ax.com>
	<eppstein-B02D89.13373405042004@news.service.uci.edu>
Message-ID: <3rh770p37kuop578tsj8kkcnubbg9ed47h@4ax.com>

On Mon, 05 Apr 2004 13:37:34 -0700, rumours say that David Eppstein
<eppstein at ics.uci.edu> might have written:

>BTW, if you're going to implement the single-char version, at least for 
>encodings that translate one byte -> one unicode position (e.g., not 
>utf8), and your texts are large enough, it will be faster to precompute 
>a table of byte frequencies in the text and then compute the score by 
>summing the frequencies of alphabetic bytes.

Thanks for the pointer, David.  However, as it often happens, I came
second (or, probably, n-th :).  Seo Sanghyeon sent a URL that includes a
two-char proposal, and it provides an algorithm in section 4.7.1 that I
find appropriate for this matter:

http://www.mozilla.org/projects/intl/UniversalCharsetDetection.html
-- 
TZOTZIOY, I speak England very best,
Ils sont fous ces Redmontains! --Harddix


From bart_nessux at hotmail.com  Thu Apr 29 11:13:09 2004
From: bart_nessux at hotmail.com (bart_nessux)
Date: Thu, 29 Apr 2004 11:13:09 -0400
Subject: reading and removing first x bytes of a file
In-Reply-To: <XPCdncN34ahjlgzdRVn-tw@powergate.ca>
References: <c6r1rc$kl5$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu>
	<XPCdncN34ahjlgzdRVn-tw@powergate.ca>
Message-ID: <40911B85.5080107@hotmail.com>

Peter Hansen wrote:
> bart_nessux wrote:
> 
>> I have some Macbinary files on a PC. I want to recursively read these 
>> files and remove the first 128 bytes of the files if they contain the 
>> macbinary header info. I know how to read directories recursively, but 
>> how would I read the first 128 bytes of each file in the path?
> 
> 
> os.listdir() can return a list of the names in the path.  You
> can use os.path.isfile() to check that a given name doesn't
> refer to a subdirectory.
> 
> Once you've opened one of the files for reading, just use .read(128)
> to get a string containing the first 128 bytes from the file.
> 
> -Peter

Thanks Peter, the below code recursively read the first 128B... am I 
right in saying that? If so, now that I can read these bytes from all 
.bin files in a directory, what would be the safest and fastest way of 
removing them?

Bart

import os

def pc_macbinary_fix(path):
    for root, dirs, files in os.walk(path):
       for fname in files:
          bin = os.path.splitext(fname)
	 if bin[1] == '.bin':
             macbinary = file(os.path.join(root,fname), 'rb').read(128)
	    print "The file named:", fname, "contains: ", macbinary, "\n."

path = raw_input("Absolute path to the directory that contains the bin 
files: ")
pc_macbinary_fix(path)



From OlafMeding at noSpam.compuserve.com  Tue Apr 13 07:15:35 2004
From: OlafMeding at noSpam.compuserve.com (Olaf Meding)
Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2004 06:15:35 -0500
Subject: Logging Stacktrace To File
Message-ID: <407bcbca$1_2@newspeer2.tds.net>


In case of an exception, how could I log an exception to a file on disk?

Much appreciate your help, thank you.

Olaf




From reverse.ku.oc.issolok at nothypgnal.delrest.co.uk  Tue Apr 27 06:25:17 2004
From: reverse.ku.oc.issolok at nothypgnal.delrest.co.uk (Paul Sweeney)
Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2004 10:25:17 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Default Argument Inconsistency?
References: <c6l8sr$5sm$2@titan.btinternet.com>
	<c6la48$cnptg$1@ID-111250.news.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <c6lcec$fd7$1@sparta.btinternet.com>

Ah, yes, got it :-)

I'm new to Python (4 months) and thought I'd figured the whole
immutable/mutable thang,
and this was bothering me.

Many thanks

Paul



"Diez B. Roggisch"  wrote ...

>
> No, its not. As [] is logically false, the
>
> if not L: L = []
>
> rebinds L with a fresh list. So the append is made to that list, not to
the
> one L is bound to as default argument.
>
>
> -- 




From dmq at gain.com  Fri Apr 30 11:25:19 2004
From: dmq at gain.com (David MacQuigg)
Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2004 08:25:19 -0700
Subject: Explanation of Instance Variables in Python
References: <pssv80dmliqnmlihb0eokkgkqhvoji3l7t@4ax.com>
	<c6pklt$eo6$0@216.39.172.122> <c6plsf$h2i$0@216.39.172.122>
Message-ID: <2tr4901hjbus6kvml7d0qd9t0k64gtld9u@4ax.com>

On 29 Apr 2004 01:30:55 GMT, bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter) wrote:

>On 29 Apr 2004 01:10:21 GMT, bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter) wrote:

>>I find well-annotated examples best for understanding something new.
>>It also gives me working code to play with, to explore variations.
>>How things break is often as instructive as how they work.
>>
>>I would suggest you encourage your students to experiment interactively.
>>E.g., ask who can explain the following, and see what you get, and then
>>collaborate with them to write sufficient comments to where they feel
>>they "get it."
>>
>Actually, looking at my previous example, maybe this would give more hints,
>in case they don't discover for themselves (strongly urge teaching how to
>fish, not serving fish, though ;-):
>
> >>> class C(object): pass
> ...
> >>> def f(*args): print 'f was called with', args
> ...
> >>> f
> <function f at 0x008FDEB0>
> >>> C
> <class '__main__.C'>
> >>> f('hello')
> f was called with ('hello',)
> >>> c=C()
> >>> c
> <__main__.C object at 0x00901370>
> >>> c.f('hello')
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
> AttributeError: 'C' object has no attribute 'f'
> >>> c.f = f
> >>> c.f
> <function f at 0x008FDEB0>
> >>> c.f('hello')
> f was called with ('hello',)
> >>> C.f = f
> >>> c.f
> <function f at 0x008FDEB0>
> >>> c.f('hello')
> f was called with ('hello',)
> >>> del c.f
> >>> c.f
> <bound method C.f of <__main__.C object at 0x00901370>>
> >>> c.f('hello')
> f was called with (<__main__.C object at 0x00901370>, 'hello')

I like this example.  It shows clearly how the first argument is
inserted in the calling sequence for a normal method call.  I remember
that seemed very strange when I was learning Python.

-- Dave



From rogerb at rogerbinns.com  Tue Apr  6 03:56:26 2004
From: rogerb at rogerbinns.com (Roger Binns)
Date: Tue, 6 Apr 2004 00:56:26 -0700
Subject: A beginner's question on thread
References: <mailman.382.1081232119.20120.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <fd4ak1-v6a.ln1@home.rogerbinns.com>

> Now my question is, how do I terminate the server thread if user wants
> to exit the application?

The easiest way is to setDaemon(True) on the thread.  See the doc for
exactly what it does.

If you want to do it in a more "proper" fashion, then you have to
make the thread do a polling loop, such as by putting a short
timeout on the sockets, and then check a variable which indicates
if you should continue, looping back if not.

It would be really nice if Python supported interrupting a thread
like Java does.

Roger




From me at privacy.net  Sun Apr 18 09:08:37 2004
From: me at privacy.net (Heather Coppersmith)
Date: 18 Apr 2004 09:08:37 -0400
Subject: module not callable - why not?
References: <c56jph$rrk$05$1@news.t-online.com>
	<107dras2heahcb6@news.supernews.com>
	<mailman.491.1081538569.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<8ef9bea6.0404122025.36efc84e@posting.google.com>
	<c5tef0$5hf$1@news.service.uci.edu>
	<7xsmf1fxd9.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <m265bxh1re.fsf@unique.phony.fqdn>

On 18 Apr 2004 02:28:50 -0700,
Paul Rubin <http://phr.cx at NOSPAM.invalid> wrote:

> Josiah Carlson <jcarlson at uci.edu> writes:

>> I think of modules as a namespace.  Why?  Because that is what
>> they are. They contain a space of names, some of which may be
>> useful to you, otherwise you wouldn't have imported the module.

> Is a class instance not also a namespace?  After all, it
> contains a space of names, some of which you must have wanted or
> else you wouldn't have instantiated it.

> And yet, you can call a class instance if it has a __call__
> operation defined.  I don't see why modules shouldn't be the
> same.

In that light, IMO, __call__ methods are the kluge.  This argument
seems to go back to (1) the old programs vs. data debate, and (2)
the meaning of "functions are first class objects."  Note that
modules are neither functions nor objects.

If I really want to call (the top-level code in) a module, I can
always reload it:

Regards,
Heather

-- 
Heather Coppersmith
That's not right; that's not even wrong. -- Wolfgang Pauli


From mongiaamit at yahoo.com  Fri Apr 23 07:19:12 2004
From: mongiaamit at yahoo.com (Amit Mongia)
Date: 23 Apr 2004 04:19:12 -0700
Subject: utf in Reportlab
Message-ID: <cf43c01d.0404230319.600ab366@posting.google.com>

Hi,
I have some text that contains url links as well as unicode
characters. I am encoding the whole text into utf-8 and trying to
render it using Reportlab.
For that i am trying to use some True type fonts that support
rendering utf8. For example Times New Roman on windows is able to
render some german text that i have.
The default Paragraph implementation with Platypus does not support
url links at the moment while the experimental Paragraph
implementation in para.py does. So i used the one in para.py. Now the
implementation in para.py is not supporting the ttf fonts that i
register with pdfmetrics. It still tries to render that text using
some other font. Any suggestions on how to get around this problem.
Anyone knows if a better version of para.py is available anytime soon.
Regards,
Amit Mongia


From stauffer at swarthmore.edu  Tue Apr 13 08:04:05 2004
From: stauffer at swarthmore.edu (Glenn Stauffer)
Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2004 08:04:05 -0400
Subject: Escaping characters in MySQLdb query
In-Reply-To: <QAEec.319$U83.296@fed1read03>
References: <AkEec.271$U83.155@fed1read03> <QAEec.319$U83.296@fed1read03>
Message-ID: <407BD735.704@swarthmore.edu>

There is a function in the MySQLdb module, string_literal(), that
returns a properly escaped string.

I do something like this when processing html form data that is being
inserted in mysql:

def dbescape(val):
    if val:
       return MySQLdb.string_literal(val)
    else:
       return "NULL"

cursor.execute(insertsql % dbescape(formdict['address'].value)

Until I figured this out, I was using the replace(...) method that
you've been using.

--Glenn

Sean Berry wrote:

>I was doing something like this:
>
>for item in values:
>    item = item.replace("'", "//'")
>
>But I am looking for something a lot nicer.
>
>Sorry about my first post date... 12 hours off.
>
>
>"Sean Berry" <sean_berry at cox.net> wrote in message
>news:AkEec.271$U83.155 at fed1read03...
>  
>
>>I wrote a little script that is inserting thousands of records into a
>>    
>>
>mysql
>  
>
>>database.
>>
>>How do I escape characters like ' in my insert statements?
>>
>>I have something like the following (much shorter) example:
>>
>>c.execute("INSERT INTO records (var1, var2) values ('%s', '%s')"
>>    
>>
>%(value1,
>  
>
>>value2))
>>
>>My problem is when value1 is something like "Tom's auto supply".  The ' in
>>Tom's needs to be escaped.  How can I do this?
>>
>>Thanks.
>>
>>
>>    
>>
>
>
>  
>





From tzot at sil-tec.gr  Sat Apr 10 12:27:37 2004
From: tzot at sil-tec.gr (Christos TZOTZIOY Georgiou)
Date: Sat, 10 Apr 2004 19:27:37 +0300
Subject: Python for MPG
References: <cb035744.0404100025.35f3f652@posting.google.com>
	<NqadneQPjuSYdOrdRVn-ug@powergate.ca>
Message-ID: <lv7g70hnbbl769vh53kvf3uk0hltsfnbku@4ax.com>

On Sat, 10 Apr 2004 08:31:01 -0400, rumours say that Peter Hansen
<peter at engcorp.com> might have written:

>Will Stuyvesant wrote:
>
>> Is there Python software for dealing with MPG movies?  I am not
>> interested in visual effects etc. but in cutting scenes from big MGP
>> files and creating new files with those scenes.
>
>Found via Google: http://www.mpgedit.org/mpgedit/

MPGEdit is for audio files only (MPEG 1 Layer I, II, III, MPEG 2, MPEG
2.5).

Unfortunately I have no knowledge of a library for MPEG video editing
with Python bindings, but TMPGEnc is a free tool that might help,
providing cutting and merging tools.
-- 
TZOTZIOY, I speak England very best,
Ils sont fous ces Redmontains! --Harddix


From tjreedy at udel.edu  Mon Apr 12 16:39:04 2004
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2004 16:39:04 -0400
Subject: Is there a boolean(somestring) equivalent of int(somestring).
References: <mailman.533.1081738820.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<U8qeAls/KnuB089yn@the-wire.com>
Message-ID: <c5eup4$oji$1@sea.gmane.org>


> In article <mailman.533.1081738820.20120.python-list at python.org>,
> "Vineet Jain" <vineet at eswap.com> wrote:
> >Thanks for the code suggestion.
> >
> >>From what I've read, most people (including me) are attracted to Python
> >because of how natural it is. Give that is a high priority for the
language
> >designers:
> >
> >How can anyone argue that
> >
> >bool('false') = True
> >
> >is more natural (and what you would expect) than
> >
> >bool('false') = False

I would not argue about what *you* would or should expect, since I know
nothing of your background and thought processes, but as for myself:

1. I am aware that the Boolean values, in themselves, are abstractions.  In
applications, they can represent the two possible answers to *any* forced
dichotomy: nothing/something, 0/1, open/closed, up/down, inside/outside,
dead/alive, passive/active, off/on, default/marked, wrong/right,
isolated/connected, and so on, and, oh yes, when interpreted for logic,
false/true.

2. I know Python to be a global algorithm language, and not just for
English speakers, even though the keywords and builtin names are English or
English-based.  So I would not expect operators to be English-biased in
their operations on values (as opposed to names).

3. I know that the dichotomy chosen for bool(sequence/collection) is
empty/something, and that strings are a sequence of bytes.

Terry J. Reedy






From joe at notcharles.ca  Thu Apr 15 15:41:13 2004
From: joe at notcharles.ca (Joe Mason)
Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2004 19:41:13 GMT
Subject: Aspect Programming Module
References: <84fc4588.0404140106.3fa0c55@posting.google.com>
	<slrnc7q1ss.1aa.alf@largo.fayauffre.org>
	<cb035744.0404141130.170f51c4@posting.google.com>
	<slrnc7rh3n.6oq.joe@gate.notcharles.ca>
	<cb035744.0404150110.71e4ac2a@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <slrnc7tp9r.9b5.joe@gate.notcharles.ca>

In article <cb035744.0404150110.71e4ac2a at posting.google.com>, Will Stuyvesant wrote:
>> [Joe Mason]
>> > "AOP is a contrived way to get around the limitations of a statically
>> > typed language."
>> 
>> Care to explain that?  What I've seen of AOP seems like a very dynamic
>> design philosophy.
> 
> Dynamic indeed.  And that is a problem for statically types
> programming languages like Java.
> 
> To add logging capabilities to an instance object of a Python class
> you simply add a function/method that does the job.  Add it as an
> attribute to the object itself, or to the object's __class__, or to
> anything else you can get at via the object and its attributes.

But that doesn't address the calling of the new function.  You still
have to either manually insert calls everywhere, or set up a system
which notices when new functions are added and inserts calls to them as
needed.  Once you've done that - poof!  Aspect Oriented Programing!

Joe


From dmq at gain.com  Fri Apr 23 17:38:20 2004
From: dmq at gain.com (David MacQuigg)
Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2004 14:38:20 -0700
Subject: Why we will use obj$func() often
References: <d2Uhc.22272$dZ1.1600@fed1read04> <84Uhc.22278$dZ1.5087@fed1read04>
	<mailman.927.1082665370.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<8AWhc.23114$dZ1.11070@fed1read04> <40883BFE.B381518A@alcyone.com>
	<27_hc.23801$dZ1.2716@fed1read04> <40887145.789A2FE8@alcyone.com>
	<7cki80hj976bia36lhf9er97v073o1pqvm@4ax.com>
	<w8dic.28710$dZ1.11206@fed1read04>
	<qrsi80padudj0snprkk3l1kko5hb4p8m0o@4ax.com>
	<rbfic.29689$dZ1.6986@fed1read04>
Message-ID: <1q0j809vuirbsddmje23jt5d29jjvveosn@4ax.com>

On Fri, 23 Apr 2004 13:40:55 -0700, "Mark Hahn" <mark at prothon.org>
wrote:
>"David MacQuigg" <dmq at gain.com> wrote ...
>> >def getFunc():
>> >    counter = 0
>> >    def count():
>> >            &counter += 1
>> >            print &counter
>> >    return count
>
>> Here is how I would do it in Python:
>>
>> class Accumulator:
>>     def __init__(self):
>>         self.count = 0
>>     def bump(self):
>>         self.count += 1
>>         print self.count
>
>> It took me a few minutes to understand what the "closure" was doing.
>> The Python code is more clear ( at least for anyone who will have to
>> be working with classes anyway).  There is nothing new to learn.
>>
>> Functionality       = same
>> Size of Source Code = same
>> Transparency        = Python wins
>
>Yes, it's a tie in this example.  There are many cases however where you are
>already in a situation where you have a function and the closure is
>beneficial and creating a "class" would be unneeded overhead.  I don't
>really have the time to create something large enough here to demonstrate
>it.  You'll just have to take my word for it (or not).
>
>It's a tool for your toolchest and it's the kind of thing that if your not
>familiar with it you'll never miss it, but once you learn it and use it a
>few times you'll wonder how you ever lived without it.  Also I can drag out
>the old tired argument that if the closure bothers you "you don't have to
>use it".

I appreciate that I may be missing something important because it can
only be seen in a larger example.  For many years I scoffed at C++
thinking I could do anything I needed without OOP.

Still, the question of whether we should include special syntax for
closures is an important question that deserves some time on a
use-case before even putting it into Prothon, let alone expecting
Python users to learn it.  

I'm not seeing the "overhead" of classes that you refer to.  To me, a
class is very lightweight thing.  I use nested classes, for example to
store hierarchies of variables, like
window1.plot2.xaxis.label.font.size = 12

It is quite alright to show a small example and expect us to
extrapolate to something 100 times larger.  Even if we extrapolate the
example above, however, Python still wins.

I don't like the "toolchest -- don't have to use it" argument, because
that could be used to justify *any* added syntax, and I really like
the compactness of Python.  The more overlapping features we have, the
more confusion there will be in reading someone else's programs, for
example.

I don't like the "once I learn it argument" either.  An equally valid
argument is that people who have developed a *habit* in other
languages of using closures, are now unnecessarily dependent on them,
and will have to learn simpler techiques to get by in Python.

By the way, if we work on the example a little, Python wins on
transparency *and* codesize.

class A:
    count = 0
    def bump(self):
        A.count += 1
        print A.count

c = A().bump
c(); c(); c()

-- Dave



From andrew.henshaw at gtri.gatech.edu  Fri Apr  2 08:01:07 2004
From: andrew.henshaw at gtri.gatech.edu (Andrew Henshaw)
Date: Fri, 02 Apr 2004 08:01:07 -0500
Subject: Making the Zen of Python more useful
Message-ID: <106qp0uivlefo40@corp.supernews.com>

Yesterday, I was writing some test code for a module and I wanted some
line-oriented text to use as a data source.  I thought about using a
docstring from one of the standard modules; but, it occurred to me that the
Zen of Python text from the 'this' module would be *much* better, as it is
more readable and would be a nice thing for our students to see.

Unfortunately, the actual text is difficult to use:
  o the text is ROT-13 encoded and the module's translation routine is
inline
  o the text is printed to stdout on import.  I understand why Tim did this,
but it did interfere with my purpose.

So, in order to use the module for my test code, I had to implement a short
ROT-13 translator, import the sys module, redirect stdout to a simple
object that provided a null write method, import this, restore stdout, and
then rot13(this.s).

I suggest that the 'this' module could be used to provide a standard,
line-oriented, test text.  I would like to see the unencoded text made
available directly, e.g. this.zen().

Unfortunately, my suggestion has a snag.  I can't think of a convenient way
to provide the 'import this' functionality for which the module was
oringinally created, without forcing the test programmer to go through the
gyrations of redirecting stdout. We could do an indirect import from
another module that provides the desired behavior; but, this seems like
overkill.  Any thoughts?

-- 
Andy


From mwilson at the-wire.com  Mon Apr  5 12:05:54 2004
From: mwilson at the-wire.com (Mel Wilson)
Date: Mon, 05 Apr 2004 12:05:54 -0400
Subject: slightly OT: BUT NEEDs to be said
References: <4078daf265c69e9353e8af72542da703@dizum.com>
Message-ID: <iPYcAls/KfIQ089yn@the-wire.com>

In article <4078daf265c69e9353e8af72542da703 at dizum.com>,
Nomen Nescio <nobody at dizum.com> wrote:
>
>Hi I downloaded this document about Python recently:
>
>http://datamining.anu.edu.au/~ole/publications/python.pdf
>
>I loved the cute little Snake graphic.
>
>I think it would be great for Python.org/people behind Python to adopt this
>as an official mascot and DROP the god awful references to Monty Pythons's
>Flying Circus. [ ... ]

   The link with Monty Python's Flying Circus is the only
thing that lets us logically use the cute little snake as
our mascot.  Ask yourself, "Could a language named after a
snake have a pet comedy troupe?"

        Regards.        Mel.


From tjreedy at udel.edu  Wed Apr 21 13:33:43 2004
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2004 13:33:43 -0400
Subject: Py_ParseTuple  Problem
References: <4039221c.0404202256.3f21d817@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <c66b9h$h3l$1@sea.gmane.org>


<youngdubliner at hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:4039221c.0404202256.3f21d817 at posting.google.com...
> Hi All ,
>
> Bit of a problem with Py_Parse or Py_ParseTuple ?
>
> I have a python script that reads a sector of flash in an embedded
device.
> it returns the value of each byte within the sector as a tuple.
>
> i.e. [255,255,255,255,255,255,255, .......etc etc for the whole sector !

As written, above is a list instead of a tuple.

> We are using this script to read whats currently in any sector.
> No problems there.
>
> Now I need to call our script from C.
>
> I want to copy each of the bytes within the sector into an C unsigned
char *array

Without knowing the C API, I would try to generate byte string from within
Python.  Three possibilities:

1. turn list into string - secstring = ''.join(map(chr, seclist)).  Then
use C API to get the cstring from string object.

2. turn list/tuple into array (of unsigned chars) or built that directly
instead of list or tuple.  See array module.  I presume you can get at the
buffer itself from C API.

3. look into ctypes module.

> Is there any way to do this using Py_ParseTuple or Py_Parse ???

If you mean PyArg.... stuff, I believe these are meant for parsing
argu;ments passed as heterogeneous Python tuple, which is quite different
from what you want to do.

Terry J. Reedy






From edwin at localhost.localdomain  Sat Apr  3 20:43:03 2004
From: edwin at localhost.localdomain (Edwin Young)
Date: 03 Apr 2004 17:43:03 -0800
Subject: minor bug in cmath.asin?
References: <m3y8pcr8u9.fsf@localhost.localdomain>
	<406F3EDA.970F953A@alcyone.com>
Message-ID: <m34qs0ikm0.fsf@localhost.localdomain>

Erik Max Francis <max at alcyone.com> writes:

> Edwin Young wrote:
> 
> > I think it should be 0+0j (+0 for both parts). The official formula is
> > at
> > 
> > http://functions.wolfram.com/ElementaryFunctions/ArcSin/02/
> 
> Well this is Mathematica's official formula ... :-).

Mathworld doesn't document how Mathematica works, it's a repository of
generic mathetical info. "Official" is the wrong word, but I don't
have a more authoritative reference to hand.

> 
> > and is asin(z) = -i * log(i*z + sqrt(1 - z*z))
> > 
> > Which is slightly ambiguous. I read it as:
> > 
> > (+0 - 1i) * log(i*z + sqrt(1 - z*z))
> 
> How is the original equation amiguous?

It's not clear if the leading - sign affects the entire expression or
indicates that i is negative. Python's implementation uses the former
- I argue that the latter is more correct. The difference in result is
just whether you get +0 or -0.

I've also noticed that cmath.acos has the same issue, and that the
formula used for cmath.asinh is not quite accurate around 0 :
cmath.asinh(0) gives 4.44089e-16+0j, rather than 0 as expected.

Does anyone know the history of the cmath implementation? There are
some interesting formulas used for some of the trig functions and I'm
curious to know where they came from.

--
Edwin


From peter.maas at mplusr.de  Wed Apr  7 06:45:28 2004
From: peter.maas at mplusr.de (Peter Maas)
Date: Wed, 07 Apr 2004 12:45:28 +0200
Subject: Conflux
In-Reply-To: <a4df2450.0404070214.38decb01@posting.google.com>
References: <a4df2450.0404070214.38decb01@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <c50m15$29c$1@swifty.westend.com>

Manpreet wrote:
> Mod_python error: "PythonHandler _Publisher"
> 
> Traceback (most recent call last):
> 
>   File "/usr/lib/python2.3/site-packages/mod_python/apache.py", line
> 338, in HandlerDispatch
>     result = object(req)
> 
>   File "/var/www/html/conflux/lib/_Publisher.py", line 217, in handler
>     module = apache.import_module(module_name, req.get_config(),
> [path])
> 
>   File "/usr/lib/python2.3/site-packages/mod_python/apache.py", line
> 493, in import_module
>     f, p, d = imp.find_module(parts[i], path)
> 
> ImportError: No module named index

Just guessing, but I think, a file named index.py is missing or in
the wrong place. What about contacting Conflux about this issue?

Mit freundlichen Gruessen,

Peter Maas

-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Peter Maas, M+R Infosysteme, D-52070 Aachen, Hubert-Wienen-Str. 24
Tel +49-241-93878-0 Fax +49-241-93878-20 eMail peter.maas at mplusr.de
-------------------------------------------------------------------


From soeren_kunst at hotmail.NOSPAM.com  Tue Apr 20 09:32:56 2004
From: soeren_kunst at hotmail.NOSPAM.com (Sören Kunst)
Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 15:32:56 +0200
Subject: Re
Message-ID: <c638ov$nul$1@hermes.p4.net>

for Python Beginners, thx for the links




From peter at engcorp.com  Thu Apr  1 09:25:53 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Thu, 01 Apr 2004 09:25:53 -0500
Subject: OT (was Re: But it still doesn't explain the joke)
In-Reply-To: <106o7vn56fgmt85@corp.supernews.com>
References: <mailman.189.1080759511.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<kmjsj1-89u.ln1@snout.lairds.org> <c4glmq$j1i$1@swifty.westend.com>
	<c4h6ad$lu0$1@panix1.panix.com>
	<106o7vn56fgmt85@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <XoWdnevUOvXsu_HdRVn-tA@powergate.ca>

Cameron Laird wrote:
> In the litigious US, court cases for everything are unceasing.  What
> I suspect you have in mind is a Supreme Court hearing for a father
> who, if I understand correctly, claims his religious freedom as an 
> atheist unconstitutionally impaired because of a requirement imposed
> by the public school his daughter attends that she recite The Pledge
> <URL: http://slate.msn.com/id/2097737/ >.
> 
> More background appears at <URL: http://slate.msn.com/id/2067499/ >.

Without following the links to verify, I'll just note (since I
was reading this on the subway while heading for the PyCon venue)
that the recitation is apparently not even mandatory (for the girl)
but the father was objecting that she would even have to stand
there and listen to it.  (I don't know what the "rules" say, but
the school representative said the girl didn't even have to say
the pledge.)

-Peter


From jcarlson at uci.edu  Sat Apr  3 02:46:26 2004
From: jcarlson at uci.edu (Josiah Carlson)
Date: Fri, 02 Apr 2004 23:46:26 -0800
Subject: Translate escaped characters in a string
In-Reply-To: <fef0a228.0404021557.57f86921@posting.google.com>
References: <fef0a228.0404021557.57f86921@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <c4lqan$95o$1@news.service.uci.edu>

> I have an application that reads the arguments sent to the script. If
> an user enters a text like "Line 1\nLine2" (\n is slash+n, and not
> LF), I would like to use \n and other supported escape sequences when
> I write the text to a file.
> 
> Is there a way to do this, other than writing my own parser?

I know there's an easier way to do it, but the below works...
 >>> import encodings
 >>> print encodings.codecs.escape_decode('hello\\nworld')[0]
hello
world
 >>>

If the stings are escaped normally, the above will produce what you want.

  - Josiah


From ngeti at optonline.net  Tue Apr  6 16:47:52 2004
From: ngeti at optonline.net (NGETI)
Date: Tue, 06 Apr 2004 20:47:52 -0000
Subject: Missing Win32con
Message-ID: <c4v51o+s36f@eGroups.com>

I have installed Python and it appears to work. Trying it out on some 
scripts gives me the error, "cannot find win32con"

Can anyone suggest where I can get this file? I am running Windows 
2000.





From bignose-hates-spam at and-benfinney-does-too.id.au  Thu Apr 15 22:56:30 2004
From: bignose-hates-spam at and-benfinney-does-too.id.au (Ben Finney)
Date: 16 Apr 2004 12:46:30 +0950
Subject: CamelCase versus wide_names (Prothon)
References: <UHxfc.9323$dZ1.3740@fed1read04>
	<mailman.666.1082064823.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<N_Efc.9389$dZ1.7955@fed1read04>
	<mailman.670.1082084117.20120.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <slrnc7uk0d.tgh.bignose-hates-spam@iris.polar.local>

On Thu, 15 Apr 2004 22:54:03 -0400, Fran?ois Pinard wrote:
> [Mark Hahn]
>> P.S.  Has anyone noticed that I have finally taught myself how to not
>> top-post?
> 
> Even more, to quote parsimoniously.  Congratulations! :-)

Seconded.  Thanks, Mark!  It's not often I get to reduce my kill file
because the person's posting style improved.

Note that this will only encourage us to continue educating others :-)

-- 
 \         "I may disagree with what you say, but I will defend to the |
  `\    death your right to mis-attribute this quote to Voltaire."  -- |
_o__)                      Avram Grumer, rec.arts.sf.written, May 2000 |
Ben Finney <http://bignose.squidly.org/>


From skchim0 at engr.uky.edu  Thu Apr  8 15:03:15 2004
From: skchim0 at engr.uky.edu (Satish Chimakurthi)
Date: Thu, 8 Apr 2004 15:03:15 -0400
Subject: Embedding python in ANSYS: Anyone tried it?
References: <mailman.457.1081434228.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<m2ptai9v0o.fsf@pchoel.psh>
Message-ID: <017901c41d9c$25eb5560$559ea380@D4XN6B41>

Hello Mr.Bernard,

> I now started wrapping ANSYS UPF routines using
>f2py and am already able to call some basic python examples from
>ANSYS. I mainly asked because wrapping a sufficiant amout of the ANSYS
>interface routines is a lot of stupid typing work, and if sombody else
>did it before, it would be nice to share the work :-)

If you have a ready example about how exactly F2PY was used with a
particular UPF routine like "dspget" say, would you mind to send that to me.
I would like to see how it works from Python.
So, with your interface, you are able to invoke Python scripts from ANSYS or
is it the other way round ? Would you please let me know in more detail ?


Best Regards,
Satish





From robin at reportlab.com  Thu Apr 29 12:20:13 2004
From: robin at reportlab.com (Robin Becker)
Date: Thu, 29 Apr 2004 17:20:13 +0100
Subject: sys.modules strangeness
In-Reply-To: <e838aa6e.0404290622.1bdb8116@posting.google.com>
References: <408FF0B1.5090505@chamonix.reportlab.co.uk>
	<e838aa6e.0404290622.1bdb8116@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <40912B3D.60708@chamonix.reportlab.co.uk>

A. Lloyd Flanagan wrote:
> Robin Becker <robin at reportlab.com> wrote in message news:<408FF0B1.5090505 at chamonix.reportlab.co.uk>...
> 
>>We had some legacy applications that used import to get parts of documents in.
>>When run separately these worked fine, but failed when run as a single process
>>because they both imported ch1 (after jumping to their home dirs and placing
>>these on the path). Clearly the first to run used up ch1.
> 
> 
> Have you tried reload(ch1)?  (see section 2.1, "Built-in Functions",
> in the Python Library Reference.

I know that reload works. I was trying to restore the modules state to a 
specific point as in general I didn't know where or which modules the apps could 
import.

The original problem has gone away as I decided to exec the code files in a 
specific namespace rather than import them. I am still curious why replacing the 
current version of sys.modules with an earlier copy doesn't reset the modules list.
-- 
Robin Becker


From daniel.dittmar at sap.com  Thu Apr  8 09:31:02 2004
From: daniel.dittmar at sap.com (Daniel Dittmar)
Date: Thu, 8 Apr 2004 15:31:02 +0200
Subject: A second __builtins__- or globals()-like namespace.
References: <tyfy8p6vdrk.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
Message-ID: <c53k6m$60h$1@news1.wdf.sap-ag.de>

Jacek Generowicz wrote:
> Python looks up names firstly in the nested function namespaces, then
> the global namespace, and finally in builtins, raising NameError if it
> fails to find a binding in any of those.
>
> Would it be possible (without hacking the interpreter) to add in
> another namespace somewhere into this search hierarchy?

You could try to replace the __builtins__ module with an object of your own
liking.

class IntermediateScope:
    def __init__ (self, outerscope, **kwargs):
        for name, value in kwargs.items ():
            setattr (self, name, value)
        self.outerscope = outerscope

    def __getattr__ (self, name):
        return getattr (self.outerscope, name)

sys.modules ['__builtins__'] = IntermediateScope (__builtins__, myvar =
myvalue)

I haven't tested whether this works at all and what the effect on error
messages could be.

Daniel





From SeeBelow at SeeBelow.Nut  Fri Apr 23 21:52:30 2004
From: SeeBelow at SeeBelow.Nut (SeeBelow at SeeBelow.Nut)
Date: Sat, 24 Apr 2004 01:52:30 GMT
Subject: Difficulty Finding Python Developers (me too!)
References: <65cbc3dd.0404140641.3501fde8@posting.google.com>
	<4084AB85.15E9BAE2@shaw.ca> <dbdgl1-1de.ln1@home.rogerbinns.com>
	<84fc4588.0404220406.3ec8b50f@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <4089C85C.2C40FC4D@shaw.ca>

Anand Pillai wrote:
> 
> Me! Me!
> 
> Outsource it to India and I can help to do it for you :-)
> 
> -Anand

I have no preferences concerning the geographical location of the
programmer.

Did you read my original post?  The job is for someone who does it for
the fun and satisfaction and to participate in the progress of computer
science.  (i.e., there is no money involved.)

Mitchell Timin

<snip>
-- 
"Many are stubborn in pursuit of the path they have chosen, few in
pursuit of the goal." - Friedrich Nietzsche

http://annevolve.sourceforge.net is what I'm into nowadays.
Humans may write to me at this address: zenguy at shaw dot ca


From ekoome at yahoo.com  Thu Apr 22 11:06:26 2004
From: ekoome at yahoo.com (Eric)
Date: 22 Apr 2004 08:06:26 -0700
Subject: Convert hexadecimal string to binary
Message-ID: <b0457a31.0404220706.65a7735c@posting.google.com>

Guys,
I have the following hexadecimal string - '\xff\xff\xff' which i need
to convert to binary.

How would i go about doing this?

Eric


From Stanislav.Paska at kios.sk  Tue Apr 13 04:48:00 2004
From: Stanislav.Paska at kios.sk (Stano Paska)
Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2004 10:48:00 +0200
Subject: how to break tuple to separate variables
Message-ID: <407BA940.8000405@kios.sk>

Hi.

I need pass variables to function like tuple, but function accepts 
separate variables.

Is there some elegant solution?

My example:

# -------------------------------
import datetime

def date2tuple(aaa):
     try:
         y = int(aaa[:4])
         m = int(aaa[5:7])
         d = int(aaa[8:10])
     except:
         y = m = d = 0
     return (y, m, d)

# i need some like this
bbb = datetime.date(date2tuple('2004-11-03'))

# but date requires
bbb = datetime.date(2004, 11, 03)

# -------------------------------

Thanks.

Stano Paska





From __peter__ at web.de  Mon Apr  5 03:22:52 2004
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Mon, 05 Apr 2004 09:22:52 +0200
Subject: write data file
References: <337e6cd5.0404042146.6e39153c@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <c4r1gc$4g7$01$1@news.t-online.com>

SunX wrote:

> Question from a newbie.  How do you write out a data file of floating
> point numbers? file.write only takes strings.
> Many thanks.

The easiest way is to write them in a text file, one float per line.
You can use repr() or str() to convert them to a string:

>>> somefloats = [1.2, 3.4, 5.7]
>>> f = file("tmp.txt", "w")
>>> for n in somefloats:
...     f.write(repr(n)) 
...     f.write("\n")
...

Here's how to read them back into Python:

>>> f = file("tmp.txt")
>>> readfloats = []
>>> for line in f:
...     readfloats.append(float(line))
...
>>> readfloats
[1.2, 3.3999999999999999, 5.7000000000000002]

The trailing digits are nothing to worry about (see the Python FAQ), for a
nicer appearance do

>>> str(readfloats[1])
'3.4'
>>> print readfloats[1] # uses str() for string conversion
3.4

When you are not interested in a human-readable file and have more complex
data to store, have a look at the pickle module.

Peter



From jepler at unpythonic.net  Thu Apr 22 10:11:41 2004
From: jepler at unpythonic.net (Jeff Epler)
Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2004 09:11:41 -0500
Subject: Tkinter: how to fill values in OptionMenu dynamically
In-Reply-To: <c67fbe$qks$1@sea.gmane.org>
References: <c67fbe$qks$1@sea.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <20040422141131.GA17776@unpythonic.net>

You can't do it using OptionMenu, but you can use a Menubutton plus a
menu with a postcommand.

import Tkinter
import time

def create_menu():
    menu.delete(0, Tkinter.END)
    menu.add_command(label=time.asctime())
    menu.add_command(label="Does anybody even care?")

but = Tkinter.Menubutton(text="Does anyobdy really know what time it is?")
menu = Tkinter.Menu(but, postcommand=create_menu, tearoff=0)
but.configure(menu=menu)
but.pack()
but.mainloop()

Jeff



From nicolas.lehuen at thecrmcompany.com  Wed Apr 21 06:01:21 2004
From: nicolas.lehuen at thecrmcompany.com (Nicolas Lehuen)
Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2004 12:01:21 +0200
Subject: Python 2.3.3 super() behaviour
References: <40863bd7$0$25528$afc38c87@news.easynet.fr>
	<c65fbo$1q4$05$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <40864674$0$24834$afc38c87@news.easynet.fr>

OK, I get it now, thanks.

super() method calls should only be used for method involved in
diamond-shaped inheritance. This is logical since in this case the base
classe (from which the diamond-shaped inheritance starts) defines the
interface of the method.

This solves another question I was asking myself about super() : "how can it
work when the method signature differ between B and C ?". Answer : the
method signature should not change because polymorphic calls would be
greatly endangered. The base class defines the signature of the method which
must be followed by all its children, this way super() can work properly.

The base method signature is not enforced by Python, of course, but you'd
better respect it unless you get weird result in polymorphic calls.

Regards,
Nicolas

"Peter Otten" <__peter__ at web.de> a ?crit dans le message de
news:c65fbo$1q4$05$1 at news.t-online.com...
> Nicolas Lehuen wrote:
>
> > Hi,
> >
> > I hope this is not a FAQ, but I have trouble understanding the behaviour
> > of the super() built-in function. I've read the excellent book 'Python
in
> > a Nutshell' which explains this built-in function on pages 89-90. Based
on
> > the example on page 90, I wrote this test code :
> >
> > class A(object):
> >     def test(self):
> >         print 'A'
> >
> > class B(object):
> >     def test(self):
> >         print 'B'
> >
> > class C(A,B):
> >     def test(self):
> >         super(C,self).test()
> >         print 'C'
> >
> > print C.__mro__
> > c=C()
> > c.test()
> >
> > The output is :
> > (<class '__main__.C'>, <class '__main__.A'>, <class '__main__.B'>, <type
> > 'object'>)
> > A
> > C
> >
> > Whereas I was expecting :
> > (<class '__main__.C'>, <class '__main__.A'>, <class '__main__.B'>, <type
> > 'object'>)
> > A
> > B
> > C
> >
> > Was I wrong to expect this (based on what I've read ?)
>
> As soon as a test() method without the super(...).test() is reached, no
> further test methods will be invoked. Only the first in the list of base
> classes will be invoked. If I'm getting it right you have to do something
> like:
>
> class Base(object):
>     def test(self):
>         print "base"
>
> class D1(Base):
>     def test(self):
>         super(D1, self).test()
>         print "derived 1"
>
> class D2(Base):
>     def test(self):
>         super(D2, self).test()
>         print "derived 2"
>
> class All(D1, D2):
>     pass
>
> All().test()
>
> Here all cooperating methods have a super() call, and the base class acts
as
> a showstopper to prevent that Python tries to invoke the non-existent
> object.test().
>
> Peter
>
>
>




From rob at nospam.net  Sat Apr 17 06:37:11 2004
From: rob at nospam.net (Robert Ferber)
Date: Sat, 17 Apr 2004 12:37:11 +0200
Subject: (For gurus) Embed functions in webpages like in PHP?
References: <5eq4l1-9vm.ln1@pilz.hasos.com> <du7fzb4rter.fsf@lehtori.cc.tut.fi>
Message-ID: <noe7l1-fns.ln1@pilz.hasos.com>

Ville Vainio wrote:

>>>>>> "rob" == Robert Ferber <rob at nospam.net> writes:
> 
>     rob> Hi, I'm a PHP-programmer who evaluates Python for a new
>     rob> project.  I really like a lot of concepts of Python,
>     rob> especially the shell, but there is one great feature of PHP
>     rob> which I don't know how to replace in Python:
> 
>     rob> <html>
>     rob> <? echo random_banner(); ?>
>     rob> important database result that took 20 minutes to generate
>     rob> </html>
> 
> Check out the new mod_python, it offers exactly the functionality you
> need. Some discussion is here:
> 
> http://www.onlamp.com/pub/a/python/2004/02/26/python_server_pages.html

This looks very promising, thanks a lot.


-- 
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, 
              but what they conceal is vital" - Aaron Levenstein



From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Tue Apr 27 15:19:33 2004
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 27 Apr 2004 15:19:33 -0400
Subject: Is Perl *that* good? (was: How's ruby compare to it older bro
References: <mailman.18.1082989111.25742.python-list@python.org>
	<108qcobc4m8g972@corp.supernews.com>
	<roy-AEA452.13121026042004@reader2.panix.com>
	<c6kps2$cnung$1@ID-169208.news.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <c6mbo5$t19$1@panix3.panix.com>

In article <c6kps2$cnung$1 at ID-169208.news.uni-berlin.de>,
Greg Ewing  <greg at cosc.canterbury.ac.nz> wrote:
>
>I suspect that, 20 years from now, there will still be a language
>called Python, and it will still be quietly and unobtrusively kicking
>all its competitors' backsides.
>
>Whether it will bear any resemblance to the Python of today is another
>matter...

Heh.  Something like twenty years ago, a family friend pontificated that
in the year 2000, there would be a computer language.  He didn't know
what it would look like, but he did know that it would be called FORTRAN.
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

"I used to have a .sig but I found it impossible to please everyone..."  --SFJ


From usenet_spam at janc.invalid  Thu Apr  1 22:29:52 2004
From: usenet_spam at janc.invalid (JanC)
Date: Fri, 02 Apr 2004 03:29:52 GMT
Subject: Prothon, metaclasses, Zope [Was: A 'Python like' language]
References: <95aa1afa.0403272243.78d60724@posting.google.com>
	<slrnc6crti.dit.joe@gate.notcharles.ca>
	<eAF9c.48978$cx5.17895@fed1read04> <c4fq68$mk7$1@panix3.panix.com>
	<S7Lac.87628$cx5.10253@fed1read04>
	<95aa1afa.0404010017.2f1683b8@posting.google.com>
	<m%1bc.100747$cx5.75670@fed1read04>
Message-ID: <Xns94BF37EC922A4JanC@213.119.4.35>

"Mark Hahn" <mark at prothon.org> schreef:

> As far as top-posting, I am trying to improve, it's just hard to
> change my reply style after using it for 30 years without getting any
> complaints before. I feel like I'm in a twilight-zone episode.

You're still not using OE-QuoteFix...  ;-)

-- 
JanC

"Be strict when sending and tolerant when receiving."
RFC 1958 - Architectural Principles of the Internet - section 3.9


From fumanchu at amor.org  Thu Apr 22 12:24:45 2004
From: fumanchu at amor.org (Robert Brewer)
Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2004 09:24:45 -0700
Subject: Deleting objects
Message-ID: <DE1CF2B4FEC4A342BF62B6B2B334601E56203B@opus.amorhq.net>

Thomas Philips wrote:
> I'm teaching myself OOP using Michael Dawson's "Python Programming For
> The Absolute Beginner" and have a question about deleting objects. My
> game has two classes: Player and Alien, essentially identical,
> instances of which can shoot at each other. Player is described below
> 
> class Player(object):
>     #Class attributes for class Player
>     n=0	#n is the number of players
> 
>     #Private methods for class Player
>     def __init__(self,name):
> 	self.name = name
>         self.strength = 100
>         Player.n +=1
> 
>     def __del__(self):
>         Player.n -=1
>         print "I guess I lost this battle"
>     
>     #Public methods for class Player
>     def blast(self,enemy,energy):
>         enemy.hit(energy)
> 
>     def hit(self,energy):
>         self.strength -= energy
>         if(self.strength <= 50):
>             self.__del__()
> 
> I instantiate one instance of each class: 
> Hero = Player("Me")
> Villain = Alien("Not Me")
> 
> If Hero hits Villain with 
> Hero.blast(Villain, 100) 
> 
> Villain dies and executes its destructor (__del__). The game then
> ends. However, when I execute the program in IDLE, IT FINISHES BY
> EXECUTING THE DESTRUCTOR FOR BOTH HERO AND VILLAIN.
> 
> How can this be? As one of the two objects was destroyed prior to the
> end of the game, how can it be re-destroyed when the program ends?

A couple points:

1. Forget what you know about 'private' and 'public' members. For now,
create every attribute and method as if it were public. You can add back
in concepts of 'private' members in a couple weeks, if you still feel
you need them.

2. __del__ is not a destructor; that is, when you call:

        if(self.strength <= 50):
            self.__del__()

self is not destroyed. Read
http://docs.python.org/ref/customization.html for the spec on __del__.
Instead, you might try a container (like a list) which holds Player
instances:

players = []

class Player(object):
    def __init__(self,name):
        self.name = name
        self.strength = 100
     
    def blast(self,enemy,energy):
        enemy.hit(energy)
 
    def hit(self,energy):
        self.strength -= energy
        if(self.strength <= 50):
            print "I guess I lost this battle"
            players.remove(self)


Hero = Player("Me")
players.append(Hero)

Villain = Player("Not Me")
players.append(Villain)

Hero.blast(Villain, 100)

print players


Robert Brewer
MIS
Amor Ministries
fumanchu at amor.org



From peter at engcorp.com  Thu Apr 29 10:50:51 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Thu, 29 Apr 2004 10:50:51 -0400
Subject: String formatting (%)
In-Reply-To: <NNGdnfrYFPd1YQ3dRVn-jA@powergate.ca>
References: <e567c03a.0404280035.79d0d973@posting.google.com>
	<gcGdnd7hn7_LMxLd4p2dnA@powergate.ca>
	<0fc7c423f6c71f60bc863e72b0765f6c@news.teranews.com>
	<NNGdnfrYFPd1YQ3dRVn-jA@powergate.ca>
Message-ID: <u-qdnY5Adp7RiwzdRVn-jw@powergate.ca>

Peter Hansen wrote:

>  >>> import re
>  >>> s = '21421906.12'
>  >>>
>  >>> re.sub(r'(?<=\d)(?=(\d\d\d)+\.)', ',', s)
> '21,421,906.12'
> 
>>     Of course, the OP would substitute spaces for the commas.
> 
>  >>> _.replace(',', ' ')
> '21 421 906.12'

And in case the OP is entirely unfamiliar with regular
expressions, you wouldn't actually do a separate "replace"
operation like the above, so

   re.sub(r'(?<=\d)(?=(\d\d\d)+\.)', ' ', s)

should work nicely, at least with any floating that *always*
has a decimal point present.  If the numbers might sometimes
not have a decimal point, I think this will do the job, so
it's a more general solution:

   re.sub(r'(?<=\d)(?=(\d\d\d)+(\.|$))', ' ', s)

Note that addition of an alternate for \. at the end of the pattern.

-Peter


From a at a.invalid  Tue Apr 20 12:24:35 2004
From: a at a.invalid (Timo Virkkala)
Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 16:24:35 GMT
Subject: Threats to the: Daily Python URL!
In-Reply-To: <vNSgc.497803$Po1.249255@twister.tampabay.rr.com>
References: <2ae25c6b.0404182250.4c5bc870@posting.google.com>
	<vNSgc.497803$Po1.249255@twister.tampabay.rr.com>
Message-ID: <79chc.279$uz.274@read3.inet.fi>

Nobody wrote:
>>Please don't stop the excellent work that you do.
>>I don't know what threats and insults you suffered but I would like to
>>ensure you that I for one read the column and value it.
> 
> The people who would do that (threats and insults) should have their jobs
> offshored.

...preferably to the middle of the Pacific Ocean, with the employee with 
the job. =)

--
Timo Virkkala


From jcarlson at uci.edu  Sun Apr 11 14:11:03 2004
From: jcarlson at uci.edu (Josiah Carlson)
Date: Sun, 11 Apr 2004 11:11:03 -0700
Subject: Newbie Q: Extra spaces after conversion from utf-8 to utf-16-le
 ?
In-Reply-To: <915dc3ae.0404102233.4248dc9a@posting.google.com>
References: <915dc3ae.0404102233.4248dc9a@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <c5c1u5$j09$1@news.service.uci.edu>

> I am an absolute Newbie who has done a good amount of googling with
> the keywords utf-8, utf-16, python, convert and has reasoned that the
> following code could be used to convert a utf-8 text file to a
> utf-16-le (I believe this is what Windows uses for Unicode):
> 
> s1 = open("utf8_file_generated_with_perl.txt", "r").read()
> s2 = unicode(s1, "utf-8")
> s3 = s2.encode("utf-16-le")
> open ("new_file_supposedly_in_utf16le", "w").write(s3)
> 
> Well, this code kind of works (meaning I do not get any errors), but
> the produced file contains an extra space after every character (l i k
> e  t h i s) and Windows believes this is an ANSI (i.e. non-unicode
> file). Clearly, what I think is working is actually not.

For standard /ASCII/ characters, when encoded with utf-16-le, there 
exists a 'null' character trailing every input character that exists in 
standard ASCII...
    >>> s = unicode("hello", "ascii")
    >>> s
    u'hello'
    >>> s2 = s.encode("utf-16-le")
    >>> s2
    'h\x00e\x00l\x00l\x00o\x00'

Generally, "Windows" makes no assumption about encoding and always 
assumes ASCII.  What many (not all) systems do to tell the app what 
encoding is being used, is place what is known as a 'BOM' at the 
beginning of the file.  Check unicode.org for more information.

You will also likely find opening files as 'binary' in Windows, when 
working with unicode, goes a long ways towards making correct output.

  - Josiah


From irmen at -nospam-remove-this-xs4all.nl  Thu Apr 15 14:54:06 2004
From: irmen at -nospam-remove-this-xs4all.nl (Irmen de Jong)
Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2004 20:54:06 +0200
Subject: Socket error: 10053 software caused connection abort
In-Reply-To: <c5kc37$kco$1@newshispeed.ch>
References: <c5kc37$kco$1@newshispeed.ch>
Message-ID: <407eda4e$0$576$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>

Jean-Pierre Bergamin wrote:
> Hello there
> 
> I'm getting an error on Windows XP when I send big data chunks over a socket
> connection. The exception I get is: "socket.error: (10053, 'Software caused
> connection abort')"
> This happens in the socket.recv function.

I have the same error here, and it is NOT because of a bug in Windows' TCP
stack. (even though the problem does not occur on Linux).

The problem is in your code.

You are receiving chunks of data like this:

>   # Get data as long as there's something on the line
>   data = ''
>   block_size = 1024
>   while(1):
>    chunk = self.connection.recv(block_size)
>    if not chunk:
>     break
> 
>    data += chunk
> 
>    if (len(chunk) < block_size):
>     # We got all the data
>     break
> 
>   return data

But this code is flawed: recv() CAN return less than block_size,
*even* if there is more data to be read on the socket.

So, you should not check if the length of the received chunk
is less than the length argument passed to recv().

Instead, you should count the total number of bytes you
received and check that with the expected total amount.

Also, string appending is slow. Better append to a list and when
the loop is complete, return ''.join(alist).

I fixed your client and server receive loops in the mentioned way,
and they work fine even on windows :-)

However there is one more thing, when your block_size (the argument
to recv) is "too large" there are certain OSes that show problems
(VMS, Windows XP). MemoryErrors and such. I have been using:

	chunk=sock.recv(min(60000,block_size))

quite successfully.

--Irmen de Jong



From jzgoda at gazeta.usun.pl  Thu Apr 15 15:29:14 2004
From: jzgoda at gazeta.usun.pl (Jarek Zgoda)
Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2004 19:29:14 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: CamelCase versus wide_names (Prothon)
References: <UHxfc.9323$dZ1.3740@fed1read04>
Message-ID: <c5mnq5$f23$1@nemesis.news.tpi.pl>

Mark Hahn <mark at prothon.org> pisze:

> 1) CamelCase is more elegant, modern, more readable, and more efficient in
> character usage.

I use CamelCase in my ObjectPascal (Delphi, FP) code. Looks really good,
but it's Pascal.

> 2) Wide_names is cleaner, more readable, compatible with C, which is the
> standard module language for Python and Prothon.  Wide_names is also the
> Python standard.

I don't like underscores. I know, it's my problem. ;)

> Of course in the Python world you alread have wide_names as your standard,
> but could you for the moment pretend you were picking your standard from
> scratch (as we are doing in the Prothon world) and give your vote for which
> you'd prefer?

mixedCase, like in Java (sorry). This convention makes clean distinction
between objects and classes. I like it. Am I crazy? Yes, I am. ;)

-- 
Jarek Zgoda
http://jpa.berlios.de/


From tungwaiyip at yahoo.com  Tue Apr  6 13:50:14 2004
From: tungwaiyip at yahoo.com (Tung Wai Yip)
Date: Tue, 06 Apr 2004 10:50:14 -0700
Subject: unpack tuple of wrong size
Message-ID: <c7r57095assq7p777q2ugudnh72qud8kgb@4ax.com>

I want to do 

t = (1,2)
a,b = t  # get a=1 and b=2

However when
t = (1,)
a,b=t

I got a "ValueError: unpack tuple of wrong size"

What I want is for a=1 and b=None. Is there a good way to do this?


Wai Yip Tung


From greg at cosc.canterbury.ac.nz  Wed Apr  7 20:52:47 2004
From: greg at cosc.canterbury.ac.nz (Greg Ewing)
Date: Thu, 08 Apr 2004 12:52:47 +1200
Subject: [OT] The Cracker's Guide To Python
In-Reply-To: <04g770lqpbhdgr3n3b9mnu9o8f08fdkgk0@4ax.com>
References: <04g770lqpbhdgr3n3b9mnu9o8f08fdkgk0@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <c527ov$2ofp9u$1@ID-169208.news.uni-berlin.de>

Christos TZOTZIOY Georgiou wrote:
> The only problem would be that if the crack is written in
> Python, it won't be able to open the dll as read-write...

That's no problem -- use py2exe to wrap it up with its
own private version of the interpreter.

For bonus points, compile it with Pyrex, so the kiddies
can have fun reverse engineering it to find out how
it works.

-- 
Greg Ewing, Computer Science Dept,
University of Canterbury,	
Christchurch, New Zealand
http://www.cosc.canterbury.ac.nz/~greg



From meyer at acm.org  Wed Apr  7 18:56:07 2004
From: meyer at acm.org (Andre Meyer)
Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2004 22:56:07 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Dynamic creation of an object instance of a class by name
References: <10f99b0f.0404070656.5960e2c8@posting.google.com>
	<tyfk70rx044.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
Message-ID: <loom.20040408T004857-934@post.gmane.org>

Right, ok, well, I do not assume to know what classes can be instantiated, thus
anything like accessing globals() is not likely to help, sorry. The eval()
version works pretty ok so far. I am develpoing a module of which other people
can make use of by developing their own subclasses, but they need to be
instantiated by my code. Eval() does the trick for me or is there a better way,
assuming you do not need to know which class it might be beforehand?
btw I LOVE dynamicity... ;-)

kind regards
Andre




From rajarshi at presidency.com  Wed Apr  7 12:10:04 2004
From: rajarshi at presidency.com (Rajarshi Guha)
Date: Wed, 07 Apr 2004 12:10:04 -0400
Subject: how to read data from a socket given a file descriptor
Message-ID: <pan.2004.04.07.16.10.02.34880@presidency.com>

Hi,
  I'm writing some code using PyGTK2 that uses inpu_add_full() to watch a 
socket. I've included the code below. I have two questions:

1) What does a condition == 16 mean? It does match any of the
gtk.gdk.INPUT_* values. What is the use of the condition variable in the
callback?

2) The source variable in the call back is an fd. I have some trivial code
that is able to read from a socket:

    while 1:
        sock.listen(1)
        conn = sock.accept()[0]
        got = conn.recv(20)
        if (got == 'close'): break
        conn.send('hello there %d' % (c))
        c += 1
        
But how can I make this work when I get an fd?

Thanks,

--%<-------------------------------------------------------

def process_socket_message(source, condition):

    if condition == gtk.gdk.INPUT_READ:
        print 'something to read'
    elif condition == gtk.gdk.INPUT_WRITE:
        print 'ok to write'
    elif condition == gtk.gdk.INPUT_EXCEPTION:
        print 'an exception occured on the socket'
    else:
        print 'I dont know what the condition means'

    conn = sock.accept()[0]
    got = conn.recv(20)
    print got
    return gtk.TRUE

if __name__ == '__main__':
    
    gnome.init('xxx','xxx')
    widgets = WidgetsWrapper('gui.glade','toplevel', TopLevelHandlers)
    
    # set up the socket to get messages from a client
    sock = socket.socket(socket.AF_UNIX, socket.SOCK_STREAM)
    sock.bind('/tmp/mysocket')

    # setup and input_add
    socket_handler_id = gtk.input_add_full(sock, gtk.gdk.INPUT_READ, process_socket_message)

    gtk.mainloop ()


From alf at calvin.fayauffre.org  Thu Apr 15 04:25:27 2004
From: alf at calvin.fayauffre.org (Alexandre Fayolle)
Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2004 08:25:27 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Aspect Programming Module
References: <84fc4588.0404140106.3fa0c55@posting.google.com>
	<slrnc7q1ss.1aa.alf@largo.fayauffre.org>
	<cb035744.0404141130.170f51c4@posting.google.com>
	<8ef9bea6.0404142155.90b41ef@posting.google.com>
	<407E394B.2050709@mxm.dk>
Message-ID: <slrnc7shnn.vp.alf@largo.fayauffre.org>

Le 15-04-2004, Max M <maxm at mxm.dk> a ?crit?:
> Hung Jung Lu wrote:
>
>> Python does not even have codeblocks. So how can you say AOP is not
>> needed for Python programmers?
>
> I am probably rather dense, but I have not seen aspect oriented examples 
>   that could not have been done with simple mixins.

Hi Max,

I'm probably rather dense too :-) 
How do you implement the logging aspect with a simple mixin?

(the logging aspect prints a statement before and after each method call
of a class instance)

-- 
Alexandre Fayolle                              LOGILAB, Paris (France)
http://www.logilab.com   http://www.logilab.fr  http://www.logilab.org


From manian at dishnetdsl.net  Tue Apr 13 02:19:45 2004
From: manian at dishnetdsl.net (Shiva Kumar)
Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2004 11:49:45 +0530
Subject: [Csv]PEP 305
Message-ID: <002b01c4211f$51f4ff90$0701a8c0@advaita>

hi,

        following code will be giving namespace error,plz find out what is the wrong in this & plz  send meback to correct code.


import System.Xml; 
importMicrosoft.Xml;

public class Test {
    
      public static void Main(){
   
   XmlDocument doc = new XmlDocument(); 
   XmlCsvReader reader = new XmlCsvReader("c:\customers.csv"), doc.NameTable); 
   reader.FirstRowHasColumnNames = true; 
   reader.RootName = "customers"; 
   reader.RowName  = "customer"; 

   doc.Load(reader); 
   Console.WriteLine(doc.OuterXml);
   doc.Save("output.xml"); 
     }

thanks 
regards
shivakumar

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From jcarlson at uci.edu  Sat Apr  3 17:09:50 2004
From: jcarlson at uci.edu (Josiah Carlson)
Date: Sat, 03 Apr 2004 14:09:50 -0800
Subject: Python is faster than C
In-Reply-To: <c4n9qf$jgq$1@news-reader4.wanadoo.fr>
References: <406F0907.96F37EA1@tunes.org>
	<c4n9qf$jgq$1@news-reader4.wanadoo.fr>
Message-ID: <c4nctk$pp3$3@news.service.uci.edu>

> For the 1st April, it's finish.

That wasn't a joke, psyco does in fact work /really/ well for some things.

  - Josiah


From jepler at unpythonic.net  Thu Apr 22 07:23:15 2004
From: jepler at unpythonic.net (Jeff Epler)
Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2004 06:23:15 -0500
Subject: Cell objects and their values
In-Reply-To: <m38ygopahn.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk>
References: <mailman.898.1082612009.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<m38ygopahn.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <20040422112314.GA19189@unpythonic.net>

On Thu, Apr 22, 2004 at 10:34:13AM +0000, Michael Hudson wrote:
> That wouldn't work in Python 2.2, I don't know what Jeff is using
> these days...

2.4 CVS .. what, doesn't everybody?

Jeff



From peter at engcorp.com  Fri Apr  2 17:40:31 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Fri, 02 Apr 2004 17:40:31 -0500
Subject: GUI Frameworks in Python?
In-Reply-To: <XbGdnfXcwoMmNvTdRVn-tA@powergate.ca>
References: <mailman.102.1080629227.20120.python-list@python.org>	<b5idnd8_MLmQg_Td4p2dnA@powergate.ca>	<cm9ac.8115$lt2.6537@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>	<FJGdnUG9P87T4fTdRVn-uQ@powergate.ca>	<mailman.117.1080656311.20120.python-list@python.org>	<qYCdna1kjd3fBPTdRVn-tw@powergate.ca>
	<mailman.125.1080662935.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<XbGdnfXcwoMmNvTdRVn-tA@powergate.ca>
Message-ID: <ndKdna8yUZVCdvDdRVn-hw@powergate.ca>

Peter Hansen wrote:

> Hugh Macdonald wrote:
> 
>> I just wrote the following simple script:
>>
>> -------------------------------------------------
>> #!/software/python/python2.2.2/linux/bin/python
>> import time
>> startTime = time.time()
>> from wxPython.wx import *
>> print "Time:",time.time()-startTime
>> -------------------------------------------------
>>
>> On running multiple times, I get the following outputs:
>>
>> Time: 4.60863804817
>> Time: 3.26165890694
>> Time: 3.24744296074
>> Time: 3.26767706871
>> Time: 3.25304102898
> 
> Running that repeatedly (sorry, can't reboot conveniently
> right now, so can't get the first time) it takes 0.125 s
> on my machine.

Just upgraded to the newly released (thank you so very much
for all your work Robin Dunn... now get back to that book! ;-)
2.5.1.5 to compare, sort of, with Chris Perkins' results.

Now it consistently takes 0.20 seconds to run the above on
my machine...  how very odd.

-Peter


From michael at foord.net  Wed Apr 14 03:23:09 2004
From: michael at foord.net (Fuzzyman)
Date: 14 Apr 2004 00:23:09 -0700
Subject: Wrapper round x86 Assembler
References: <8089854e.0404082353.7bf163a2@posting.google.com>
	<4dKdnQlIXMIXIevdRVn-gg@powergate.ca>
	<8089854e.0404100204.504186a0@posting.google.com>
	<kcWdnaFpw_PvdurdRVn-sA@powergate.ca>
	<8089854e.0404122329.5dfe5ce1@posting.google.com>
	<R9-dnUYH8r32f-bd4p2dnA@powergate.ca>
Message-ID: <8089854e.0404132323.3283390@posting.google.com>

Peter Hansen <peter at engcorp.com> wrote in message news:<R9-dnUYH8r32f-bd4p2dnA at powergate.ca>...
> Fuzzyman wrote:
> 
> > Right ? I got confused by the mention that they could handle inline
> > assembler.... so many of the compilers include an assembler as well...
> > purely for 'inline assembly'.... ??
> 
> That's correct.  Of course, many also do the CC+AS thing, but
> I think that's no longer the most common approach.
> 
> > My past experience of assembly was using an operating system that
> > handled multitasking 'behind the scenes' (pre-emptive multitasking) -
> > so there was no performance hit on the rest of your system from
> > writing crappy assembly - and the internal architecture of the
> > processor was useful enough to make coding fun.....
> 
> The 68K was certainly assembly-friendly, compared to anything
> yet produced by Intel. :-)
> 
> > It does occur to me that for a certain subset of a 'pseudo assembly
> > language' a 'cross-platform assembler' could work 
> 
> I really think that in most ways that matter (not quite all, but most)
> this is exactly what C was designed to be and is.  It is only a very
> thin layer on top of assembly, really.  You can think of it is a
> pseudo-high-level language designed to allow assembly programmers to
> write code roughly the way they would if they were not just hacking.
> The Amiga's huge variety of STRUCT macros, for example, are
> practically field-for-field identical to how C structs work, mostly
> just providing an efficient method for specifying the offsets of
> each field.  Pointers are nothing more than a more concise way of
> expressing the "indirect" addressing mode.  Heck, C even has (or had)
> the "goto" statement and labels!  And the for loop syntax is basically
> just how assembly loops are done, but again in a more concise and
> readable fashion.
> 
> I think anyone who attempted to do a "cross-platform assembler"
> would quickly find themselves heading in the direction of something
> like C.  (I know such things have actually been attempted, and even
> exist, by the way.  They just aren't mainstream and clearly C has
> greater success.)  Any attempt to stay at the level of hardware
> registers would immediately prevent the term "cross-platform" from
> applying.
> 
> -Peter

In summary - I'm better off learning C and how to write Python
extensions !!
It's just a very 'undynamic solution'.

Ho hum.... I've been trying to avoid delving into the arcane
makefile/linker/compiler chain mysteries... probably be more useful
anyway.

I will be using MinGw and gcc I think.... great fun - any suggestions
of good resources to start learning :
a) The mechanics and plumbing of using MinGw to compile for the win32
platform (building makefiles, system configuration etc)
b) learning C

I'm 'aware' of the concepts of memory allocation, garbage collection
etc - but I'm sure there's plenty more to learn..........

Regards,


Fuzzy

http://www.voidspace.org.uk/atlantibots/pythonutils.html


From rjt-usenet at thegrindstone.me.uk  Wed Apr 21 08:22:41 2004
From: rjt-usenet at thegrindstone.me.uk (Richard Taylor)
Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2004 12:22:41 +0000
Subject: Passing argument to setsockopt(socket.SOL_SOCKET,
	IN.SO_BINDTODEVICE, intr)
References: <408640b7$0$31671$fa0fcedb@lovejoy.zen.co.uk>
Message-ID: <40866792$0$31708$fa0fcedb@lovejoy.zen.co.uk>

Richard Taylor wrote:

> 
> Hi
> 
> Does anyone know the correct way to pass the 'device' argument to
> setsockopt with the SO_BINDTODEVICE flag?
> 
> I have tried various methods:
> 
> setsockopt(socket.SOL_SOCKET,IN.SO_BINDTODEVICE,"eth0")
> setsockopt(socket.SOL_SOCKET,IN.SO_BINDTODEVICE,inet_aton("eth0"))
> setsockopt(socket.SOL_SOCKET,IN.SO_BINDTODEVICE,struct.pack("s","eth0"))
> setsockopt(socket.SOL_SOCKET,IN.SO_BINDTODEVICE,struct.pack("p","eth0"))
> 
> None of these work. I just get a "socket.error: (19, 'No such device')".
> 
> I do have an "eth0" device :-)
> 
> Many thanks
> 
> Richard

Solved it!

So for others that find this in the news archive...

The answer is:

s.setsockopt(socket.SOL_SOCKET,IN.SO_BINDTODEVICE,struct.pack("%ds" %
(len("eth0")+1,), "eth0"))

Richard




From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Fri Apr  2 01:12:39 2004
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 2 Apr 2004 01:12:39 -0500
Subject: Prothon, metaclasses, Zope [Was: A 'Python like' language]
References: <95aa1afa.0403272243.78d60724@posting.google.com>
	<95aa1afa.0404010017.2f1683b8@posting.google.com>
	<c4h6jh$n9f$1@panix1.panix.com>
	<95aa1afa.0404011933.5cc5e959@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <c4j08n$62h$1@panix2.panix.com>

In article <95aa1afa.0404011933.5cc5e959 at posting.google.com>,
Michele Simionato <michele.simionato at poste.it> wrote:
>aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz) wrote in message news:<c4h6jh$n9f$1 at panix1.panix.com>...
>> 
>> Michele, I just got a mailbox full error when I tried sending you
>> e-mail.  Please fix.
>
>It should work now. My address michele.simionato at poste.it is mostly
>a span recipient I don't check often. Rea addresses I check every day are 
>michelesimionato at libero.it and michele.simionato at partecs.com

Then please make those addresses readily available by sticking them in
your .sig or something.  Having a non-replyable address is about as rude
as top-posting.  ;-)
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

"usenet imitates usenet"  --Darkhawk


From peter.maas at mplusr.de  Thu Apr 22 05:25:42 2004
From: peter.maas at mplusr.de (Peter Maas)
Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2004 11:25:42 +0200
Subject: Problem with xml.dom parser and xmlns attribute
Message-ID: <c682uu$sco$1@swifty.westend.com>

Hi,

I have a problem parsing html text with xmldom. The following code
runs well:

--------------------------------------------
from xml.dom.ext.reader import HtmlLib
from xml.dom.ext import PrettyPrint

r = HtmlLib.Reader()
doc = r.fromString(
'''
<html>
<head>
</head>
<body>
<p>hallo welt
</body>
</html>
''')
PrettyPrint(doc)
--------------------------------------------

but if I replace <html> by <html xmlns="http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml">
I get the error

Traceback (most recent call last):
   File "xhtml.py", line 5, in ?
     doc = r.fromString(
   File "C:\PROGRA~1\Python23\lib\site-packages\_xmlplus\dom\ext\reader\HtmlLib.py", line 69, in fromString
     return self.fromStream(stream, ownerDoc, charset)
   File "C:\PROGRA~1\Python23\lib\site-packages\_xmlplus\dom\ext\reader\HtmlLib.py", line 27, in fromStream
     self.parser.parse(stream)
   File "C:\PROGRA~1\Python23\lib\site-packages\_xmlplus\dom\ext\reader\Sgmlop.py", line 57, in parse
     self._parser.parse(stream.read())
   File "C:\PROGRA~1\Python23\lib\site-packages\_xmlplus\dom\ext\reader\Sgmlop.py", line 160, in finish_starttag
     unicode(value, self._charset))
   File "C:\PROGRA~1\Python23\lib\site-packages\_xmlplus\dom\Element.py", line 177, in setAttributeNS
     attr = self.ownerDocument.createAttributeNS(namespaceURI, qualifiedName)
   File "C:\PROGRA~1\Python23\lib\site-packages\_xmlplus\dom\Document.py", line 139, in createAttributeNS
     raise NamespaceErr()
xml.dom.NamespaceErr: Invalid or illegal namespace operation
 >Exit code: 1

A lot of HTML documents on Internet have this xmlns=.... Are
they wrong or is this a PyXML bug?

Mit freundlichen Gruessen,

Peter Maas

-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Peter Maas, M+R Infosysteme, D-52070 Aachen, Hubert-Wienen-Str. 24
Tel +49-241-93878-0 Fax +49-241-93878-20 eMail peter.maas at mplusr.de
-------------------------------------------------------------------



From OlafMeding at compuserve.com  Tue Apr 27 14:39:32 2004
From: OlafMeding at compuserve.com (Olaf Meding)
Date: 27 Apr 2004 11:39:32 -0700
Subject: MS COM early and late binding
Message-ID: <9e5ea2c4.0404271039.2da829b5@posting.google.com>

Is there a way to find out if I am using early or late binding given
the reference ("excel" in the example below) returned by Dispatch()?

>>> import win32com.client
>>> excel = win32com.client.Dispatch('Excel.Application')

Thanks much for your help.

Olaf


From agriff at tin.it  Mon Apr 26 02:30:10 2004
From: agriff at tin.it (Andrea Griffini)
Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2004 06:30:10 GMT
Subject: About generators
Message-ID: <peap80pkk0c5a7d9rliq159sbaof2mu5kr@4ax.com>


I'm new to python and I really like what I've seen so far
with just one exception; the absence of a nice syntax
for ranges of integers. I've read PEPs about allowing

   for i in 10:
     print i

and I must say I don't like it very much, but I didn't
find a discussion about what looks more natural

   for i in 0...9:
     print i

or

   squares = [x*x for x in 1...100]

that is having "expr1 ... expr2" returning an iterator
from expr1 to expr2 (second limit included).

Has this been considered ? If yes (as I suppose) where
can I find and explanation about it ? So far python
seems very logical, and an explanation of this seemingly
illogical absence would help me (I hope) in better
understanding this language.

TIA
Andrea


From akgul at infovillage.net  Thu Apr 22 21:24:34 2004
From: akgul at infovillage.net (akgul at infovillage.net)
Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2004 01:24:34 +0000
Subject: Python-list, Exotic sex is urgently necessary for you!
In-Reply-To: <E5E3A37F16I0JC42@python.org>
References: <E5E3A37F16I0JC42@python.org>
Message-ID: <D68IADH9I0F8H69A@infovillage.net>

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From irmen at -nospam-remove-this-xs4all.nl  Wed Apr 14 03:01:01 2004
From: irmen at -nospam-remove-this-xs4all.nl (Irmen de Jong)
Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2004 09:01:01 +0200
Subject: ANN: Snakelets 1.24 (simple-to-use web app server with dynamic
 pages)
In-Reply-To: <9396ba6f.0404131915.7cef8607@posting.google.com>
References: <407c6d15$0$562$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>
	<9396ba6f.0404131915.7cef8607@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <407ce1ab$0$566$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>

Stewart Midwinter wrote:

> Interesting! There is definitely a niche for an app server that is
> simpler to use than Zope.  Could this be used for a simple CMS, i.e.
> simpler than Plone?  If so, are you aware of any examples of such a
> use?

Snakelets is a bare bone web app server (modeled after Java's
JSP/Servlets). It provides the necessary foundation to build a dynamic
web site/application, but not much more.
A CMS is a (possibly quite complex) piece of software that must be
built on top of it.  What did you have in mind?


Bye
--Irmen de Jong.


From fumanchu at amor.org  Fri Apr 30 14:02:38 2004
From: fumanchu at amor.org (Robert Brewer)
Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2004 11:02:38 -0700
Subject: Dictionnary vs Class for configuration
Message-ID: <DE1CF2B4FEC4A342BF62B6B2B334601E562087@opus.amorhq.net>

Famille Delorme wrote:
> I wrote a program in Python for a school project and I am in trouble.
> I have make a Python script called conf.py. This file 
> contains  dictionnarys
> for configuration like this:
> config_sql = {
>                 "DATABASE" : "nanana",
>                 "USERDB" : "bob",
>                 "PASSWORD" : "********"
>                     }
> config_script = {
>                 "TIMETOSLEEP" : 100
>                 "PATH" : "/home/script"
>                 }
> The config_section variable is included in each modules 
> (script python) used
> in my program
> (with from config.py import config_section)
> And the use is like this
>     from conf.py import config_sql
>     print config["DATABASE"]
> 
> But my master say it's better to do a class like this
> class config :
>     def __init__(self, part=="") :
>         if (part=="SQL") :
>             self.database="nanana"
>             self.userdb="bob"
>             self.password="*******"
>         elif (part=="SCRIPT") :
>             self.timetosleep=10
>             self.path="/home/script"
>         ....
> 
> and the use like this
>     from conf.py import config
>     cfg=config("SQL")
>     print cfg.database
> 
> We have do only a file for configuration because the 
> administrator is no
> searching for configuration.
> I want know :
>  - what is more faster, dictionnary method or class method?
>  - what use more ram memory ?
>  - if you are administrator, what method you like for 
> configure program ?
> 
> Note:
>     *  the class will not have methods, it is not necessary.
>     * the program is composed of several modules which import
> config_section.

People who install your code are 'deployers' of that code. When you use
'import' to load configuration data from a Python module, you force your
deployers to learn Python. This is a bad choice, in my opinion.
Therefore, both methods are insufficient.

Look at the ConfigParser module for a better way to maintain data which
is provided by your deployers.


Robert Brewer
MIS
Amor Ministries
fumanchu at amor.org



From jjl at pobox.com  Sat Apr 17 17:45:47 2004
From: jjl at pobox.com (John J. Lee)
Date: 17 Apr 2004 22:45:47 +0100
Subject: AOP use cases
References: <84fc4588.0404140106.3fa0c55@posting.google.com>
	<slrnc7q1ss.1aa.alf@largo.fayauffre.org>
	<cb035744.0404141130.170f51c4@posting.google.com>
	<slrnc7sgat.vp.alf@largo.fayauffre.org>
	<cb035744.0404160442.2f0b1661@posting.google.com>
	<0pydnSB4WYuieuLdRVn-hQ@powergate.ca>
	<1082n594lndh27f@news.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <87pta6qnw4.fsf@pobox.com>

"John Roth" <newsgroups at jhrothjr.com> writes:
[...]
> When you're supporting a monolithic proprietary application,
> sometimes you have to do what you have to do, but today
> the entire idea simply smells of a high-tech way to do
> ad-hoc patching where a really well designed application
> would not need it (and I don't really care if the design is
> up front or emergent.)

That's unfair.

Regardless of your view of its importance, AOP is clearly sufficiently
well-motivated purely in terms of separation of concerns.  That it's
also useful as a hack to patch badly-designed software written in
inflexible languages doesn't change that in the least.


John


From mcfletch at rogers.com  Thu Apr  8 13:35:52 2004
From: mcfletch at rogers.com (Mike C. Fletcher)
Date: Thu, 08 Apr 2004 13:35:52 -0400
Subject: Tcl/Tk extension access from python under windows
In-Reply-To: <HFfdc.657$AT3.293@charlie.risq.qc.ca>
References: <HFfdc.657$AT3.293@charlie.risq.qc.ca>
Message-ID: <40758D78.8060103@rogers.com>

The default search path for tcl packages from the Python Tcl/Tk is 
Python23\tcl\* so create a directory there with the name of the package, 
and put a pkgInfo.tcl and your dll into the directory.  pkgInfo.tcl 
should look something like:

if {![package vsatisfies [package provide Tcl] 8]} {return}
package ifneeded Togl 1.6.0 \
    [list load [file join $dir Togl.dll] Togl]

You can use the tcl dde1.2 package you'll find there as a template.

HTH,
Mike

Marcel Achim wrote:

>Hi,
>
>I found a tcl extension that does exactly what I need to access a DLL
>and it would require a large amount of SWIG glue to generate an
>equivalent python extension. I want to access it via
>root.tk.call("eval", "package require extension").
>
...
_______________________________________
  Mike C. Fletcher
  Designer, VR Plumber, Coder
  http://members.rogers.com/mcfletch/





From jack at performancedrivers.com  Mon Apr 19 10:15:28 2004
From: jack at performancedrivers.com (Jack Diederich)
Date: Mon, 19 Apr 2004 10:15:28 -0400
Subject: [Python-Dev] PEP 329: Treating Builtins as Constants in the
	Standard Library
In-Reply-To: <00cb01c4260d$80b9b120$e841fea9@oemcomputer>
References: <00cb01c4260d$80b9b120$e841fea9@oemcomputer>
Message-ID: <20040419141528.GA23507@performancedrivers.com>

On Mon, Apr 19, 2004 at 08:54:41AM -0400, Raymond Hettinger wrote:
> Comments are invited on a new pep:
> 
> 	http://www.python.org/peps/pep-0329.html
> 
> Based on feedback received so far, there were several changes to the
> original draft:
> 
> * The module is public
> 
> * The module name reflects its nature as a bytecode hack
> 
I dread saying it, but is 'pragma.py' a better name than 'codetweaks.py'?
They both rhyme with magic but pragma is more familiar (I think?).

-jackdied




From youngdubliner at hotmail.com  Wed Apr 21 02:56:15 2004
From: youngdubliner at hotmail.com (youngdubliner at hotmail.com)
Date: 20 Apr 2004 23:56:15 -0700
Subject: Py_ParseTuple  Problem
Message-ID: <4039221c.0404202256.3f21d817@posting.google.com>

Hi All , 

Bit of a problem with Py_Parse or Py_ParseTuple ? 

I have a python script that reads a sector of flash in an embedded device. 
it returns the value of each byte within the sector as a tuple. 

i.e. [255,255,255,255,255,255,255, .......etc etc for the whole sector ! 

We are using this script to read whats currently in any sector. 
No problems there.  

Now I need to call our script from C. 

I want to copy each of the bytes within the sector into an C unsigned char *array

Is there any way to do this using Py_ParseTuple or Py_Parse ???

something like this for instance ??? ...... 

Py_ParseTuple[pres,"??",&my_c_array]

so now my_c_array[0] = 255 ,my_c_array[1] = 255 ,my_c_array[2] = 255 , etc etc 


Thanks for the help !


From Joseph.V.Laughlin at boeing.com  Wed Apr 28 14:39:53 2004
From: Joseph.V.Laughlin at boeing.com (Laughlin, Joseph V)
Date: Wed, 28 Apr 2004 11:39:53 -0700
Subject: Using C libraries
Message-ID: <67B3A7DA6591BE439001F2736233351202876CE0@xch-nw-28.nw.nos.boeing.com>

Has anyone had any difficulties using C libraries / data structures with
python?  Are there any things I need to be aware of?

Joe Laughlin
Phantom Works - Integrated Technology Development Labs 
The Boeing Company






From dippyd at yahoo.com.au  Wed Apr 14 03:38:23 2004
From: dippyd at yahoo.com.au (Steve)
Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2004 17:38:23 +1000
Subject: maximum length of a list & tuple
References: <c54lq3$2pe1sf$1@ID-202776.news.uni-berlin.de>
	<bvednZaKK7OybejdRVn-iQ@centurytel.net>
	<c55okv$2o3eql$1@ID-202776.news.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <407CEA6F.6000601@yahoo.com.au>

Lupe wrote:

> I just would like to know if there is any limit to a list or tuple.

Yes. Since the universe only contains something like 
10**85 particles of matter, the upper limit to a list 
is roughly 2**(10**85) bits.

Sorry, I couldn't resist :-D

You can store as many things in a list as you have 
memory for. I suppose there is probably some 
fundamental limit due to 32 bit addressing issues, but 
are you sure you are really storing so many items you 
are hitting that limit? I'd guess you aren't.

For example, the other day I was playing around with 
Python, and just for a lark I created a list with 
300,000,000 instances of None. It took about five 
minutes, but it worked :-)

Going back to your original problem:

 > Each time the function is called, it compares an
 > element of a list (which is a list too) to other
 > elements, which all amounts to millions of
 > comparisons.

Are you sure there isn't a more efficient algorithm for 
what you are trying to do?

 > The program is working for short lists but not for
 > longer ones.

What do you mean it is working? It doesn't finish? It 
is too slow? Or it gives the wrong answer?

If it is giving a wrong answer, there is a bug in your 
code. If it is running too slowly, chances are there is 
a better algorithm that will fix it.

-- 
Steven D'Aprano




From skip at pobox.com  Mon Apr 12 22:46:23 2004
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2004 21:46:23 -0500
Subject: print u"\u0432": why is this so hard? UnciodeEncodeError
In-Reply-To: <eppstein-2EEC95.17502411042004@news.service.uci.edu>
References: <cpa4qrvb529.fsf@cabernet.nelson.monkey.org>
	<c52lu9$j8c$03$1@news.t-online.com>
	<eppstein-55126D.00202008042004@news.service.uci.edu>
	<c546v4$bi5$02$1@news.t-online.com>
	<m38yh3hhxv.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk>
	<c5cgq3$tps$00$1@news.t-online.com>
	<eppstein-2EEC95.17502411042004@news.service.uci.edu>
Message-ID: <16507.21631.794319.612353@montanaro.dyndns.org>


    David> Now I'm curious -- how do you even find out it's a Terminal
    David> window you're looking at, rather than say an xterm?

I just compared the output of "env" in both xterm and Terminal windows and
came up with these clues:

    * TERM in an xterm is "xterm".  In Terminal it's "vt100".

    * In Terminal a TERM_PROGRAM environment variable is defined with a
      value of "Apple_Terminal".

    * The xterm also defines DISPLAY for obvious reasons.

Skip



From jbperez808 at wahoo.com  Sat Apr 10 23:01:56 2004
From: jbperez808 at wahoo.com (Jon Perez)
Date: 11 Apr 2004 03:01:56 GMT
Subject: why is python better than eg. smalltalk?? no one has any solid
	arguments! you should all go to church with all that religious talk!
References: <mailman.440.1081414295.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<c59l5o$2faa0i$1@ID-180326.news.uni-berlin.de>
	<c59lvb$mtm$1@nemesis.news.tpi.pl> <c5abbm$ko8$1@panix2.panix.com>
Message-ID: <c5acf1$2nlp5a$1@ID-180326.news.uni-berlin.de>

Aahz wrote:

> I found my editor fifteen years ago.  Guess which it is.  (The point
> being that there are only two editors still in regular use that were
> available fifteen years ago -- and those two editors are still ubiquitous
> now.  Doesn't matter much which you pick, they'll still be available
> fifteen years in the future.)

YEAAARRGGGHHH!!! An Emacs user... stay away from me, you satanist!!!!

;-)  hehe j/k...


From alban at magproductions.nl  Wed Apr 28 06:26:07 2004
From: alban at magproductions.nl (Alban Hertroys)
Date: Wed, 28 Apr 2004 12:26:07 +0200
Subject: Problem importing packages
Message-ID: <c6o0s0$4je$1@netlx020.civ.utwente.nl>

I'm trying to create a package containing a number of classes I made, 
but I can't get it to work...

My package is structured like this:

	X/
		__init__.py
		A.py
		B.py

When I try:
  >>> import X.A

python says:
  Traceback (most recent call last):
    File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
  ImportError: No module named X.A


As far as I can see, I do it exactly like the 'documentation' says, but 
it obviously doesn't work this way. What am I missing? (clear 
documentation, obviously...)

For the record, I believe my paths are right. If I do the following, I 
can at least import class A:

 >>> import sys
 >>> sys.path.append('X')
 >>> import A

Python version is 2.3.3 on Debian Linux.


From martin at tv-animation.com  Wed Apr 14 04:22:04 2004
From: martin at tv-animation.com (Martin)
Date: 14 Apr 2004 01:22:04 -0700
Subject: Deleting objects with method reference
Message-ID: <eb7d4731.0404140022.4536ed8d@posting.google.com>

I can't delete this object after I call the Set() function.

Why is this so special, and are there any way around it besides removing the ref ?

class B:
   def __del__(self):
      print "del"
   def F(self):
      print "f"
   def Set(self):
      self.v = self.F


o1 = B()
o1.Set()
del o1


o2 = B()
o2.Set()
o2.v = None
del o2
>>> "del"


-Martin


From sympa at ens.fr  Tue Apr 20 16:17:49 2004
From: sympa at ens.fr (SYMPA)
Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 22:17:49 +0200 (CEST)
Subject: Results of your commands
Message-ID: <200404202017.i3KKHn3G060827@nef.ens.fr>

> <Failed message available>

Command not understood: ignoring end of message.
No command found in message



From NAIGIMSESRIMAIL at gims.com  Thu Apr  1 09:44:55 2004
From: NAIGIMSESRIMAIL at gims.com (GroupShield for Exchange (ESRIMAIL))
Date: Thu, 1 Apr 2004 16:44:55 +0200 
Subject: ALERT -  GroupShield ticket number OB76_1080830688_ESRIMAIL_3 was
	generated
Message-ID: <B06B8FEF47ACD7119E720040F428459102124D28@ESRIMAIL>

Action Taken:
The message was blocked because of its subject.

To:
python-list at python.org <python-list at python.org>

From:
Roel Schroeven <rschroev_nospam_ml at fastmail.fm>

Sent:
-492544768,29628407

Subject:
Re: test for nan

Attachment Details:-

Attachment Name: N/A
File: Infected.msg
Infected? No
Repaired? No
Blocked? Yes
Deleted? No
Virus Name: 



	
-------------- next part --------------
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URL: <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/attachments/20040401/a77dce44/attachment.bin>

From oliver.schoenborn at utoronto.ca  Wed Apr 14 21:01:39 2004
From: oliver.schoenborn at utoronto.ca (Humpty Dumpty)
Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2004 21:01:39 -0400
Subject: audio input?
References: <3fa378e7.0404141117.5e9f0428@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <S9lfc.12164$2Z6.839431@news20.bellglobal.com>

Have you checked out http://www.fmod.org/? It's a C library and there is a
Python extension that uses it. However, I haven't tried it yet, I'm hoping
to use it to read audio from mic and show the music notes that are played.

Oliver

"Tally" <taliesin at ananzi.co.za> wrote in message >
> anyone know of a clean, simple audio library or wrapper for Python
> that is friendly to capturing low-latency audio to memory? It would be
> nice if it had functions like RMS power and that kind of thing but I
> can always write that myself in C...




From trevp_spam at trevp.net  Mon Apr 19 21:09:23 2004
From: trevp_spam at trevp.net (Trevor Perrin)
Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 01:09:23 GMT
Subject: block ciphers
Message-ID: <7L_gc.53134$Gn6.49963@newssvr25.news.prodigy.com>


(I know this has come up before, but the previous discussions I could 
find seemed inconclusive, so I hope people don't mind...)


Q: How about adding block ciphers to Python 2.4?

PEP 272 defines an API, and there's an excellent library that implements 
it [1].  It would be very little work to copy the AES and DES3 modules 
into stdlib (perhaps in a 'ciphers' package).

As far as legal issues, US Export is no problem - you just email in a 
notice [2].  A few countries have import issues, though I believe 
they're widely disregarded (the windows installer comes with SSL; has 
anyone complained?).  Furthermore, it would be easy to provide a 
no-crypto distribution.

It's hard to distribute pure-python crypto software without this.  You 
have to include or reference 3rd-party extension modules, which some 
users won't want to install, some will have trouble installing (like 
Windows users without a compiler), and some won't be able to install 
(Jython or IronPython users, for example).

So is this totally out of the question?  Or would it be worth pursuing, 
through a PEP, or patch, or discussion on python-dev?


Trevor


[1] http://www.amk.ca/python/code/crypto.html
[2] http://www.bxa.doc.gov/Encryption/PubAvailEncSourceCodeNofify.html


From herrn at gmx.net  Mon Apr  5 08:47:34 2004
From: herrn at gmx.net (Marco Herrn)
Date: 5 Apr 2004 12:47:34 GMT
Subject: regex help for a newbie
Message-ID: <c4rkh6$2kr4f5$2@ID-165840.news.uni-berlin.de>

Hi,

I am not very familiar with regular expressions. So I hope someone can
help me to achieve what I want.

I have the following string in my program:

  string= "aaa%(BBB%(CCC)BBB)aaa%(DDD)aaa"

Now I need to extract the parts that are enclosed in %().
There are 3 levels of nesting. The first level is named 
'aaa', the second 'BBB' and 'DDD' and the third 'CCC'.
I do not need to extract the third level at this moment, since I extract
the parts in a recursive function. So the thing I want to achieve here
is to extract %(BBB%(CCC)BBB) and %(DDD).

I tried it with the following:

  re.search("%\(.*\)", string).group()

But that returns:
  
  %(BBB%(CCC)BBB)aaa%(DDD)'

which is, of course, not what I want.
So how must the regex look like that I get the two strings I need?


Marco


-- 
Marco Herrn             herrn at gmx.net
(GnuPG/PGP-signed and crypted mail preferred)
Key ID: 0x94620736



From fredrik at pythonware.com  Fri Apr 16 13:26:45 2004
From: fredrik at pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2004 19:26:45 +0200
Subject: Passing a parameter to filter
References: <b4a8ffb6.0404160853.58c4ec6@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <c5p501$ceg$1@sea.gmane.org>

Thomas Philips wrote:

> Now, I try to filter a range using
> >>> filter(f(k=3),range(20))

f(k=3) calls the function, so you're passing the return value to filter,
not the function itself.  that's obviously not what you want.

some alternatives:

    filter(lambda x: f(x, 3), range(20))

    [x for x in range(20) if f(x, 3)]

the lambda form creates an "anonymous function" that takes one
argument, and calls your f() function with the right arguments.

the second form is a "list comprehesion", which is a compact way
to write for-in loops.

</F>

(this reply will be followed by 20 replies pointing you to 150-line scripts
that lets you do what you want by a combination of metaclasses, byte-
code rewriting, and iterators...)






From martin at v.loewis.de  Fri Apr 23 02:02:08 2004
From: martin at v.loewis.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?=22Martin_v=2E_L=F6wis=22?=)
Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2004 08:02:08 +0200
Subject: Deleting objects - my earler post got garbled
In-Reply-To: <38ec68a6.0404222110.43416e1d@posting.google.com>
References: <b4a8ffb6.0404221209.d612c6@posting.google.com>
	<40883067.4000702@v.loewis.de>
	<38ec68a6.0404222110.43416e1d@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <c6abh1$9k6$01$1@news.t-online.com>

Asun Friere wrote:
>>There is no way to explicitly delete an object in Python.
> 
> 
> So what does "del <object>" actually do then?

The syntax is not "del <object>", but "del <variable>".

It unbinds <variable> so that <variable> does no longer
refer to the object it used to refer to, very similar to
saying

<variable> = None

Whether that causes deletion of the object depends on
whether there are other reference to the same object,
in different variables.

Regards,
Martin



From tor.iver.wilhelmsen at broadpark.no  Wed Apr 28 15:48:18 2004
From: tor.iver.wilhelmsen at broadpark.no (Tor Iver Wilhelmsen)
Date: 28 Apr 2004 21:48:18 +0200
Subject: Could someone explain this to a newbie
References: <a%wjc.197$ph.161@fed1read07>
	<mailman.52.1083088698.25742.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <uu0z3994t.fsf@broadpark.no>

Heiko Wundram <heikowu at ceosg.de> writes:

> in the string are contained in the chars array which you pass in (namely 
> "ne"), and thus they are also stripped from the string.

Maybe the docs ought to state that the method stops once it hits a
char not in the *set* the passed string represents.


From Mike at DeleteThis.Geary.com  Wed Apr  7 11:35:13 2004
From: Mike at DeleteThis.Geary.com (Michael Geary)
Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2004 08:35:13 -0700
Subject: Using python23 to develop an extension for an application that
	has python22 embedded
References: <aoa370h2r58lgb00jn9o1nfpg2titdgoss@4ax.com><1073eeubflmchd5@corp.supernews.com><o2g3709fpgp50sn561h0vf5e2dd6hcuo7g@4ax.com>
	<mailman.390.1081257203.20120.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <10787tl9fmth0cd@corp.supernews.com>

Andrew MacIntyre wrote:
> You can then use another compiler supported by the
> Distutils (MS CL non-optimising compiler, MinGW,
> Borland etc) to build the distributable extension in
> either a Python 2.2 or 2.3 installation, without risking
> mixing C runtime library mismatches (VS.NET uses a
> different CRT than VS6 I understand).  If using a 2.3
> installation, you'll need to substitute a 2.2 import
> library when building the final distributable version.

Do I understand you correctly? It sounds like you are saying there is a
problem using a DLL built with VC6 and another DLL built with VS.NET in the
same application, but if you were to use a Borland or other compiler, then
you would avoid this problem.

That's not right at all. It's commonplace to have multiple DLLs loaded into
a Windows application, all built with different compilers and all using
different C runtimes. You can have one built with VC6, another with VS.NET,
and another with Borland or any other compiler. You certainly don't need to
build a DLL with Borland instead of VS.NET to avoid conflicts with another
DLL that was built with VC6.

If python22.dll has some incompatibility with other DLLs that are built with
VS.NET, then there is something seriously wrong with python22.dll.

If I misunderstood you, let me know what it was that you were getting at
here.

BTW, if you're distributing a DLL or application built with VS.NET, you do
need to make sure that the appropriate C runtime is available on the target
system. In many cases, the best way to do this is to compile and link with
the static C runtime instead of the DLL C runtime. If you use the DLL
version of the C runtime, you need to distribute it with your app or DLL.

To be sure of what other DLLs (C runtimes or whatever) your DLL or app
depends on, the best tool is Dependency Walker:

www.dependencywalker.com

-Mike




From mark at prothon.org  Tue Apr 27 12:12:11 2004
From: mark at prothon.org (Mark Hahn)
Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2004 09:12:11 -0700
Subject: What is good about Prothon?
References: <bniq80hiib0gauiltuntk9jvia2getbnj4@4ax.com>
	<nxdjc.400$Qy.363@fed1read04>
	<m0ps8092jss5mhpopkbj0a4hg0m0rlppqh@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <vDvjc.5555$Qy.2995@fed1read04>


"David MacQuigg" <dmq at gain.com> wrote ...

>         Mammal.talk()      # Call an unbound function. <== <== !!!

This works great in Python, but in Prothon there is no such thing as a class
to tell the difference in the binding. The concept of a prototype is in the
programmer's mind, not the interpreter's, since every object can be a
prototype.

Feel free to make this an argument for Python 3, but quit comparing your
proposal to Prothon since it is not Prothon compatible.

You have argued this in the Prothon mailing lists for almost a month with
Greg and me.  Please don't just start it up again here (about Prothon I
mean).




From michael at foord.net  Wed Apr 14 03:10:47 2004
From: michael at foord.net (Fuzzyman)
Date: 14 Apr 2004 00:10:47 -0700
Subject: 3D Graphics Engine
References: <8089854e.0404130639.3eb0db62@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.582.1081872602.20120.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <8089854e.0404132310.17cd290a@posting.google.com>

[snip..]
> 
> If you find more/better options, please update this wiki page:
>     http://www.py3d.org/py3d_zwiki/Python3dLinks
> 
> Have fun,
> Mike
> 
> _______________________________________
>   Mike C. Fletcher
>   Designer, VR Plumber, Coder
>   http://members.rogers.com/mcfletch/



Hmmm... There's lots of interesting things to explore here... too many in fact ;-)

Rats... have to do some 'research'.

Regards,


Fuzzy

http://www.voidspace.org.uk/atlantibots/pythonutils.html


From andymac at bullseye.apana.org.au  Tue Apr  6 07:32:36 2004
From: andymac at bullseye.apana.org.au (Andrew MacIntyre)
Date: Tue, 6 Apr 2004 21:32:36 +1000 (EST)
Subject: Intermittant slow startup
In-Reply-To: <9badaf0.0404051445.5b26b945@posting.google.com>
References: <9badaf0.0404051033.9fec2db@posting.google.com>
	<4071A86D.97CA6CAE@alcyone.com>
	<9badaf0.0404051445.5b26b945@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <20040406213052.Y97937@bullseye.apana.org.au>

On Tue, 5 Apr 2004, Michael Mossey wrote:

> Erik Max Francis <max at alcyone.com> wrote in message news:<4071A86D.97CA6CAE at alcyone.com>...
> > Michael Mossey wrote:
> >
> > > Runnng python 2.2 on HP-UX, I get intermittant slow startup.
> > > Sometimes python starts up in a small fraction of a second, and
> > > sometimes takes 3-5 seconds.  This applies to any script I run, or
> > > just typing 'python' at the prompt.
> > >
> > > I also observed something similar on Linux.
> > >
> > > Any ideas what would cause *intermittant* slow startup?
> >
> > Caching?  Is it a long time between invocations that it takes a long
> > time to start up?
>
> It is quite intermittant without much of a pattern I can see.  One
> thing that is definitely true is that if I start up python several
> times in a row one right after the other, some can be slow and some
> fast.  I just observed it start fast twice, then start slow.  I don't
> remember if it ever does the other way around but I think it does.

is any resource coming from an NFS mount? or other network source?

--
Andrew I MacIntyre                     "These thoughts are mine alone..."
E-mail: andymac at bullseye.apana.org.au  (pref) | Snail: PO Box 370
        andymac at pcug.org.au             (alt) |        Belconnen  ACT  2616
Web:    http://www.andymac.org/               |        Australia



From sdahlbac at abo.fi  Wed Apr 14 02:09:03 2004
From: sdahlbac at abo.fi (Simon Dahlbacka)
Date: 13 Apr 2004 23:09:03 -0700
Subject: refcounting
References: <407c25ca$1@newsflash.abo.fi> <c5ho92$89a$06$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <ab4c5633.0404132209.71047607@posting.google.com>

"Martin v. L?wis" <martin at v.loewis.de> wrote in message news:<c5ho92$89a$06$1 at news.t-online.com>...
> Simon Dahlbacka wrote:
> 
> > I'm a little confused about the reference counting..
> > 
> > static PyObject* MyFunction(PyObject * /*self*/, PyObject *args) {
> > 
> > PyObject *list;
> > PyArg_ParseTuple(args, &PyList_Type, &list);
> > 
> > //do stuff with list elements
> > 
> > // XXX do I need Py_INCREF(list); here ???
> > return list;
> 
> Yes. PyArg_ParseTuple returns a borrowed reference to the list; the
> reference is originally help by the argument tuple (which is immutable,
> so the reference is guaranteed to stay while you hold on to the argument
> tuple, which is only decrefed in the caller of MyFunction).
> 
> The result must be a new reference, so you must incref.
> 
> > PS. are there any documentation explaining the reference counting issues in
> > more detail than the docs @ python.org ?
> 
> No. For the specific issue, the documentation says it all:
> 
> http://docs.python.org/api/arg-parsing.html
> 
> says
> 
> "O" (object) [PyObject *] ... The object's reference count is not increased.
> 
> http://docs.python.org/api/common-structs.html#l2h-821
> 
> says
> 
> PyCFunction ... The function must return a new reference.

thanks for clarifying. Now I think that I understand (a bit more at
least)
Somehow I had managed to miss the common structs page (and especially
the part about "the function must return a new reference")

/Simon


From pinard at iro.umontreal.ca  Fri Apr 23 11:50:26 2004
From: pinard at iro.umontreal.ca (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Fran=E7ois?= Pinard)
Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2004 11:50:26 -0400
Subject: if (__name__ == '__main__'): main(sys.argv[1:])
In-Reply-To: <m3hdvcpb9s.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk>
References: <01c601c4271b$7f7300a0$b401010a@sparta>
	<4085A445.1050303@heneryd.com>
	<mailman.833.1082551131.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<m3hdvcpb9s.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <20040423155026.GB5587@alcyon.progiciels-bpi.ca>

[Michael Hudson]
> Fran?ois Pinard <pinard at iro.umontreal.ca> writes:

> > A word about the `__metaclass__' line.  My intent is to forget all about
> > classic classes and go with the new type system as quickly as possible.
> > I do not want to derive each and every of my classes from `object',
> > and later edit all those `(object)' out when the classic classes will
> > effectively get deprecated.

> Why would you do that?

Your question is surprising, after you just quoted the answer.  I guess
I miss the real meaning of your question.

> I don't like using a __metaclass__ global because it's a non-local
> effect.

That's exactly why it is useful.  You don't like it to be useful? :-)

-- 
Fran?ois Pinard   http://www.iro.umontreal.ca/~pinard



From __peter__ at web.de  Wed Apr 21 14:54:49 2004
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2004 20:54:49 +0200
Subject: Python 2.3.3 super() behaviour
References: <40863bd7$0$25528$afc38c87@news.easynet.fr>
	<c65fbo$1q4$05$1@news.t-online.com> <4086bdfc$1@pfaff2.ethz.ch>
Message-ID: <c66g1p$r0t$02$1@news.t-online.com>

Josef Meile wrote:

> Peter Otten wrote:
>  > As soon as a test() method without the super(...).test() is reached, no
>  > further test methods will be invoked. Only the first in the list of
>  > base classes will be invoked. If I'm getting it right you have to do
>  > something like:
>  >
>  > class Base(object):
>  >     def test(self):
>  >         print "base"
>  >
>  > class D1(Base):
>  >     def test(self):
>  >         super(D1, self).test()
>  >         print "derived 1"
>  >
>  > class D2(Base):
>  >     def test(self):
>  >         super(D2, self).test()
>  >         print "derived 2"
>  >
>  > class All(D1, D2):
>  >     pass
>  >
>  > All().test()
> Ok, this produces almost what the original poster wanted. You
> just have to invert the order of the base classes in All:
> 
>  >>>class All(D2, D1):
> ...   pass
> ...
> 
> then you will get:
>  >>> All().test()
> base
> derived 1
> derived 2
> 
> However, I don't understand jet why this doesn't print:
> 
> base
> derived 1
> base
> derived 2
> 
> The method test of Base is called just once? Why?
> I taught it was something like:
> 
> All.test() -> D1.test() + D2.test()
> 
> which is the same as:
> 
> (Base.test() + print "derived 1") + (Base.test() + print derived 2")
> 
> Thanks in advanced,
> Josef

Every instance has just one __dict__, so calling the same Base method twice
would at best be redundant. The Python designers are a bit smarter than
that and implemented "cooperative" methods for newstyle classes. See
http://www.python.org/2.2/descrintro.html#cooperation for the details.

Peter



From ramen at lackingtalent.com  Sat Apr 10 12:31:58 2004
From: ramen at lackingtalent.com (Dave Benjamin)
Date: Sat, 10 Apr 2004 16:31:58 -0000
Subject: Code blocks and top posting
References: <slrnc7fbrc.1ek.ramen@lackingtalent.com>
	<8ef9bea6.0404100720.65ffd2c9@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <slrnc7g909.1ek.ramen@lackingtalent.com>

In article <8ef9bea6.0404100720.65ffd2c9 at posting.google.com>, Hung Jung Lu wrote:
> Dave Benjamin <ramen at lackingtalent.com> wrote in message news:<slrnc7fbrc.1ek.ramen at lackingtalent.com>...
>> def answer(question):
>>     return 'For pretty much the same reason top posting is.'
>>     
>> if __name__ == '__main__':
>>     question = 'Why is Python not having code blocks annoying?'
>>     print answer(question)
>> 
>> # HaHaOnlySerious
> 
> def f(x):
>     print x
> 
> if __name__ == '__main__':
>     f('Functions are annoying, by the same token?')

for a_better_example in illustration_of_my_point:

    def you_now_see_why_they_are_there():
        print 'At this point, you lack sufficient context to'
        print 'understand why this function is necessary.'
        
    after(you_read_the_above_lines, you_now_see_why_they_are_there)
    
    # ie. by requiring the programmer to declare a named function before
    # passing a closure containing statements, you force the order of
    # declaration to be the reverse of the order of operation.
    
    after(supporting_codeblocks,
          [ you |
            you.dont_have_to_read_things_backwards_anymore()
          ])

# Also, consider an asynchronous chain of events:

def async_chain():

    def do_step_3():
        print 'Step 3.'
    
    def do_step_2():
        print 'Step 2'.
        after_idle(do_step_3)

    def do_step_1():
        print 'Step 1'.
        after_idle(do_step_2)

    # Do everything I said, but in the opposite order:
    after_idle(do_step_1)

if only(we_could_find_a_nice_syntax_for_codeblocks):
    print 'We could again forward talking start.'

# all in good fun,
ramen()

-- 
.:[ dave benjamin: ramen/[sp00] -:- spoomusic.com -:- ramenfest.com ]:.
:  please talk to your son or daughter about parametric polymorphism. :


From martin at tv-animation.com  Thu Apr 15 05:59:27 2004
From: martin at tv-animation.com (Martin)
Date: 15 Apr 2004 02:59:27 -0700
Subject: Deleting objects with method reference
References: <eb7d4731.0404140022.4536ed8d@posting.google.com>
	<c5iusn$v32$03$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <eb7d4731.0404150159.9ec64b3@posting.google.com>

Peter Otten <__peter__ at web.de> wrote in message news:<c5iusn$v32$03$1 at news.t-online.com>...
> ...
> You can verify this with a weakref.ref object with an appropriate callback:
> 
> import weakref
> def ondel(o):
>     print "del"
> 
> class B:
>    def F(self):
>       print "f"
>    def Set(self):
>       self.v = self.F
> 
> 
> o1 = B()
> o1.Set()
> w = weakref.ref(o1, ondel)
> del o1
> 
> Peter

Hi Peter and thanks for your reply!

However your example doesn't seem to work.

import weakref
import gc

def ondel(o):
   print "del"

class B:
   def F(self):
      print "f"
   def Set(self):
      self.v = self.F

o1 = B()
w1 = weakref.ref(o1, ondel)
del o1
>>> del

o2 = B()
o2.Set()
w2 = weakref.ref(o2, ondel)
del o2

When I delete o2 I get no output. And gc.garbage is still empty!

gc.garbage
>>> []

I have tried it in both python 2.1 and 2.3.3. Why doesn't it work?

-Martin


From griffph at aol.com  Mon Apr 19 11:31:20 2004
From: griffph at aol.com (Griff)
Date: 19 Apr 2004 08:31:20 -0700
Subject: Problems using modulo
Message-ID: <d698d3e7.0404190731.3dcb89d2@posting.google.com>

Test program:
===============================================================
t = 5.8
interval = 2.0

while t < 6.1:
    print "%s mod %s = %s " % (t, interval, t % interval )
    t += 0.1
================================================================
Results:
5.8 mod 2.0 = 1.8
5.9 mod 2.0 = 1.9
6.0 mod 2.0 = 2.0 !!!!!!
6.1 mod 2.0 = 0.1

=================================================================

if we change t to initialise at 5.9 and run the program again,

=================================================================

t = 5.9
interval = 2.0

while t < 6.1:
    print "%s mod %s = %s " % (t, interval, t % interval )
    t += 0.1
=================================================================
Results:

C:\Python22>python modprob.py
5.9 mod 2.0 = 1.9
6.0 mod 2.0 = 0.0   # that's better

====================================================

I have tried this on Windows and Unix for Python versions between 1.52
and 2.3.

I don't know much about how Python does its floating point, but it
seems like a bug to me ?

What is the best workaround so that I can get my code working as
desired ?
(ie I just want to tell whether my time "t" is an exact multiple of
the time interval, 2.0 seconds in this case).

Would be grateful for any suggestions 

cheers

- Griff


From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Mon Apr  5 00:36:38 2004
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 5 Apr 2004 00:36:38 -0400
Subject: Python is faster than C
References: <DE1CF2B4FEC4A342BF62B6B2B334601E561FAC@opus.amorhq.net>
	<mailman.311.1081031736.20120.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <c4qnom$p6j$1@panix1.panix.com>

In article <mailman.311.1081031736.20120.python-list at python.org>,
Armin Rigo  <arigo at tunes.org> wrote:
>
>You missed my point indeed.  There are two levels here: one is the
>language specification (the programmer's experience), and one is the
>CPython implementation.  My point is that with some more cleverness in
>the implementation, iterators would be much less needed at the language
>specification level (I'm not saying never, I think generators are
>great, for example).

Yes, exactly.  Without generators, I'm not sure iterators would have
taken off to the extent they have.

>Yes, and I'm ranting against the idea that the programmer should be
>bothered about it, when it could be as efficient automatically.  From
>the programmer's perspective, iterators are mostly like a sequence that
>you can only access once and in order.  A better implementation can
>figure out for itself when you are only accessing this sequence once
>and in order.  I mean, it is just like range(1000000) which is a list
>all right, but there is just no reason why this list should consume
>4MB of CPython's memory when the same information can be encoded in
>a couple of ints as long as you don't change the list.  The language
>doesn't need xrange() -- it is an implementation issue that shows up in
>the Python language.

While I'm generally in favor of what you're talking about, it seems to a
certain extent that you're simply shifting complexity.  Maintaining the
simplicity of the Python VM is an important goal, I think, and some of
your suggestions run counter to that goal.
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

"usenet imitates usenet"  --Darkhawk


From tim.golden at viacom-outdoor.co.uk  Wed Apr 14 12:24:57 2004
From: tim.golden at viacom-outdoor.co.uk (Tim Golden)
Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2004 17:24:57 +0100
Subject: [Win32] HEEEEEEELLLLPPPP! I need to determine the cluster siz
	e on WinXP/NT/2k
Message-ID: <F1921F85572CB04D9F55B14BDC76B3E4434821@tdi_nt9.internal.viacom-outdoor.co.uk>

>Hi!
>
>I need Your help. I implement a Python NT service and I need to
>determine (on WinXP/2k/XP) a cluster size of the particular partition
>(to find out how much space a file will occupy on that partition).

To make the obvious point, this is really a Win32 question
rather than (or at least as well as) a Python one. So, if
you haven't already, post to some suitable MS programming
groups.

Having said that, I've done pretty much the same research
as you seem to have done and have reached the (frankly
surprising) conclusion that there's no reliable way to
do this in software, even using WMI (which is often a
handy standby for these sorts of things). The only article
I can find that comes close to helping, suggests parsing
the output of chkdsk! (Well, it seems to work, but on my
Win2k machine you have to wait a while for it to get there).

Can you not determine the overall size of the disk, use
GetFreeDiskSpace if it's less than 2Gb and then use some
more desperate technique if it's over?

Good luck, and sorry I can't be any more use.

TJG


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From No.Spam.mc at No.Spam.mclaveau.No.Spam.com  Fri Apr  9 04:30:51 2004
From: No.Spam.mc at No.Spam.mclaveau.No.Spam.com (Michel Claveau/Hamster)
Date: Fri, 9 Apr 2004 10:30:51 +0200
Subject: Function args
References: <sdqdc.37060$zm5.15866@nntpserver.swip.net>
	<c55f5r$f2l$1@news-reader4.wanadoo.fr>
	<c55g8u$vvg$1@s1.read.news.oleane.net>
	<c55li7$oet$2@arcturus.ciril.fr>
Message-ID: <c55nvm$hks$1@news-reader4.wanadoo.fr>

Bonjour !

>>> En gros, tous les types primitifs de python sont "expans?s", autrement
dit quand on les affecte ? une autre variable, c'est une copie. Tous les
types complexes sont des r?f?rences.

Je comprend, mais, dans mon esprit, je pr?f?re me dire qu'il y a copie de ce
qui est point?. Pour une variable simple (e.g.  a=2)  c'est l'objet '2' qui
est point?, et donc, copi?. Dans le cas d'une liste, la liste pointe sur un
ensemble de pointeurs vers diff?rents objets, et donc, on copie ces
pointeurs (qui sont point?s).

Malheureusement, mon point de vue accroche sur les tuples (non modifiables).
Je me dis alors que les tuples sont non modifiables par exception...


Cela revient un peu au m?me que ce que tu as exprim?, avec une image mentale
un peu diff?rente.


@-salutations
--
Michel Claveau




From pje at telecommunity.com  Wed Apr 21 18:51:15 2004
From: pje at telecommunity.com (Phillip J. Eby)
Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2004 18:51:15 -0400
Subject: PEP 329 and bytecode hacking
In-Reply-To: <DE1CF2B4FEC4A342BF62B6B2B334601E562037@opus.amorhq.net>
Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.0.20040421183807.020405e0@telecommunity.com>

At 03:07 PM 4/21/04 -0700, Robert Brewer wrote:
>Phillip J. Eby wrote (on python-dev):
> > ...builtins can potentially be optimized away
> > altogether (e.g. 'while True:') or converted to fast
> > LOAD_CONST, or perhaps even a new CALL_BUILTIN opcode...
>
>Raymond's cookbook recipe inspired me to write a generic Visitor for
>inspecting and rewriting bytecode. Maybe it'll help someone out there
>with prototyping bytecode hacks.

For more sophisticated bytecode modifications, you'll want to keep track of 
things like source line number, the nth instruction and its operand if any 
(so you can scan *backwards*), the list of locations of a given opcode, 
etc.  This Pyrex module:

http://cvs.eby-sarna.com/PEAK/src/peak/util/_Code.pyx?rev=1.2&content-type=text/vnd.viewcvs-markup

provides high-speed dynamic access to bytecode metadata, and is suitable 
for use in runtime bytecode hacks, since it does not require Python 
function call overhead for each instruction.  E.g. instead of defing a 
'visit_OPNAME' method that then gets called numerous times, you simply do 
something like:

     from peak.util._Code import codeIndex

     idx = codeIndex(someCodeObject)

     for op in (DELETE_NAME, DELETE_GLOBAL):
         for i in idx.opcodeLocations(op):
             warn_explicit(
                 "Deletion of global during initialization",
                 ModuleInheritanceWarning,
                 someCodeObject.co_filename,
                 idx.byteLine(idx.offset(i)),
             )

which demos the use of the byteLine (line number for a given offset in the 
code) and offset (offset of the nth instruction) methods.




From biner.sebastien at ouranos.ca  Wed Apr 14 14:27:18 2004
From: biner.sebastien at ouranos.ca (biner)
Date: 14 Apr 2004 11:27:18 -0700
Subject: saving a tkinter canvas to gif
Message-ID: <b82e5469.0404141027.2ba8896d@posting.google.com>

Hello,

  Is there any way to save a canvas created with tkinter to a gif (or
any other graphic) without using PIL (I cannot build it on our unix
machine)? For example with this simple code :
>>>
from Tkinter import *

root=Tk()
base=Canvas(root,width=50,height=50)
base.create_rectangle(0,0,50,25,fill='red')
base.create_rectangle(0,25,50,50,fill='blue')

base.pack()
root.mainloop()
<<<
How can I save the image with the two colored rectangle onto a graphic
file?
I looked on google and in the documentation but I didn't find how to
do it. Thanks for any help.

Sebastien.
biner.sebastien at ouranos.ca


From edcogburn at hotpop.com  Thu Apr  1 07:32:53 2004
From: edcogburn at hotpop.com (Ed Cogburn)
Date: Thu, 01 Apr 2004 07:32:53 -0500
Subject: Python compiler -> py to C, py to ELF
In-Reply-To: <c4e4ut$4fn$1@swifty.westend.com>
References: <mailman.160.1080716941.20120.python-list@python.org>	<c4dvrh$kgh$1@arcturus.ciril.fr>
	<c4e4ut$4fn$1@swifty.westend.com>
Message-ID: <c4h24t$22b$1@sea.gmane.org>

Peter Maas wrote:
> Yermat wrote:
> 
>> If you just want an exe file, also see py2exe 
>> (http://starship.python.net/crew/theller/py2exe/)
>>
>> If what you want is something faster than python but not an ELF file 
>> then also look at pyrex.
> 
> 
> If the goal is fast code dont' forget psyco. It is an extremely
> simple to use JIT compiler and can speed up Python scripts
> dramatically


It would be nice if Psycho were ported to the Mac as well so that all of the 
major platforms that have Python could use Psycho too.  Then we could make 
Psycho a standard part of Python with it automatically used by default, just 
like the JIT compiler in Java.  I figure at least half of these threads we 
constantly see about speeding up Python code would go away with a 
used-by-default JIT compiler.  Its a nice dream anyway.  :)




From a-steinhoff at web.de  Thu Apr  1 15:38:43 2004
From: a-steinhoff at web.de (Armin Steinhoff)
Date: 1 Apr 2004 12:38:43 -0800
Subject: Just magic ...
Message-ID: <ddc19db7.0404011238.e6c2db9@posting.google.com>

Hi all,

I'm just porting a piece of python code for using a different
database.
When I run the original version .. the type of 'set' is a tuple ...
and is magically in the new version a 'class instance'. The code is
the same in both versions:

ins_list = [(0,1,2,3),]
self.IMpos =0
for set in ins_list:
    setdata = (self.IMpos,) +  set[1:]

Any ideas why set is treated as a 'tuple' and in the other case as a
'class instance' ??  (Python 2.3.3 )


Regards

    Armin


From tinuviel at sparcs.kaist.ac.kr  Thu Apr 29 01:12:13 2004
From: tinuviel at sparcs.kaist.ac.kr (Seo Sanghyeon)
Date: 29 Apr 2004 05:12:13 GMT
Subject: How to add an attachment with smtplib module
References: <coUjc.920$ph.527@fed1read07>
Message-ID: <40908ead$0$97288$7a214f24@news.kaist.ac.kr>

Sean Berry <sean at sands.beach.net> wrote:
> I have the sample script that uses the smtplib module
> that is available at python.org.
> 
> How can I use this to send an attachment?

You don't. smtplib is a transport for an already formatted email
message. You create a message with email package, like this:

from email.MIMEMultipart import MIMEMultipart
from email.MIMEText import MIMEText
from email.MIMEImage import MIMEImage
msg = MIMEMultipart()
msg.attach(MIMEText(file("text.txt").read())
msg.attach(MIMEImage(file("image.png").read())

And then send it:

import smtplib
mailer = smtplib.SMTP()
mailer.connect()
mailer.sendmail(from_, to, msg.as_string())
mailer.close()

Read email package documentation for more details.


From patrick at fraley.de  Mon Apr  5 08:22:00 2004
From: patrick at fraley.de (Patrick W. Fraley)
Date: Mon, 05 Apr 2004 14:22:00 +0200
Subject: Python NPTL Sockets
Message-ID: <pan.2004.04.05.12.21.59.476937@fraley.de>

Hi all,

I had a problem not to long ago when I switched from RedHat 9 to Fedora
Core 1.  The problem seemed to have to do with the new nptl and the usage
of the python socket module. It seemed that socket communication got
interrupted and not all data was transfered, this seemed to especially
hold true the larger the amount of data became.

has anybody else experienced this?  How about the new Version of Fedora
using Kernel 2.6, can I expect the same problem there?

Thanx in advance
patrick w. fraley


From max at alcyone.com  Mon Apr 12 02:23:36 2004
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Sun, 11 Apr 2004 23:23:36 -0700
Subject: Easy question on error catching
References: <Syqec.51062$Vo.646@fed1read03>
Message-ID: <407A35E8.C669206D@alcyone.com>

Sean Berry wrote:

> So, how do I catch this error so that I can do something else with it?
> 
> Is it as simple as
> try:
>     x = int(t)
> except:
>     something else
> 
> or do I need to catch a ValueError specifically?

What you wrote will work, but catching a ValueError (except ValueError:
...) is a better solution.  Especially in dynamically typed languages
like Python, it's a good idea to catch the most restrictive error you
think you need, and then expand the net if it's required.  This way only
what needs to get caught gets caught, and the rest gets passed up the
appropriate caller if necessary.

Granted, this is a special case since what you're trying to do is so
simple, but it's a good practice to follow in the future.

-- 
 __ Erik Max Francis && max at alcyone.com && http://www.alcyone.com/max/
/  \ San Jose, CA, USA && 37 20 N 121 53 W && AIM erikmaxfrancis
\__/ Don't overestimate the decency of the human race.
    -- H.L. Mencken


From __peter__ at web.de  Thu Apr  1 02:38:20 2004
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Thu, 01 Apr 2004 09:38:20 +0200
Subject: ESR's fortune.pl redone in python - request for critique
References: <mailman.195.1080764259.20120.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <c4ggtc$h9r$01$1@news.t-online.com>

Adelein and Jeremy wrote:

> (PO)> The operating system and Python may both perform some caching
> as
> (PO)> they see fit, but conceptually (and practically at least for
> (PO)> large files - they can still be larger than your RAM after all)
> (PO)> they are *not* read into memory.
> 
> So ``creating a file object'' is not the best terminology (? -
> because creating other objects puts all of their attributes in a
> defined memory space) - instead, I am creating an object with access
> to a specific file (and of course, with methods to work on that
> file)?

There are other examples for objects not loading their entire data into
memory - e. g. PIL images which you can safely ask for their size without
having to fear that they load each and every pixel, or database tables. The
__getattr__() method and properties further blur the difference between
static data and lazily loaded or calculated data. In short - I think the
term object is appropriate for all of these; the internal representation is
an implementation detail.

Peter



From me at privacy.net  Wed Apr  7 19:03:16 2004
From: me at privacy.net (Heather Coppersmith)
Date: 07 Apr 2004 19:03:16 -0400
Subject: Are line continuations needed?
References: <407409ef.82801353@news.eircom.net>
Message-ID: <m2hdvvxuff.fsf@unique.phony.fqdn>

On Wed, 07 Apr 2004 14:05:29 GMT,
wallacethinmintr at eircom.net (Russell Wallace) wrote:

> Python lets you continue a single logical line across more than
> one physical line, either by putting a \ at the end or letting
> it happen automatically with an incomplete infix operator.

> I'm wondering how often is this feature needed? Would there be
> any problems if it weren't part of the language?

Completely contrived:

    if a == b or b == c or c == d or d == e or e == f or f == g ....

No, I can't imagine this sort of thing actually coming up, and
yes, it's "fixable" with some extra parenthesese:

    if (a == b or b == c or c == d) or (d == e or e == f
        or f == g ....

Regards,
Heather

-- 
Heather Coppersmith
That's not right; that's not even wrong. -- Wolfgang Pauli


From donn at u.washington.edu  Thu Apr  8 20:11:41 2004
From: donn at u.washington.edu (Donn Cave)
Date: Thu, 08 Apr 2004 17:11:41 -0700
Subject: List vs tuples
References: <c54cjb$5fs$1@planja.arnes.si> <107bf8q8fhsmg5e@news.supernews.com>
	<roy-BDDD71.17205008042004@reader1.panix.com>
Message-ID: <donn-33F341.17114108042004@nntp6.u.washington.edu>

In article <roy-BDDD71.17205008042004 at reader1.panix.com>,
 Roy Smith <roy at panix.com> wrote:
> "John Roth" <newsgroups at jhrothjr.com> wrote:
>> A list is a data structure that is intended to be used with 
>> homogenous members; that is, with members of the same type.
> 
> There's really nothing about a list which makes it more suitable for 
> homogeneous elements than a tuple.  It's true that people do tend to 
> think tuple when they want a mixed collection of objects, but there's 
> nothing in the language semantics which makes that so.
> 
> I've written lots of code which parses data files.  If you've got a 
> sequence of arbitrary type objects, the easiest way to process them is 
> often to read them sequentially and append them to a list.  I don't see 
> anything wrong with that.  For example, I once had to write some code 
> which parsed SQL statements that looked something like:
> 
> insert into foo values (1, 2, 'foo', 3.14, 'bar', 4, 5, 'baz', ...);
> 
> There were a total of about 30 items of mixed type (strings, integers, 
> and floats) in the ()'s. 
> 
> One of the really nice things about Python (vs. C++ or Java) is that 
> you're not bound by the tyranny of static typing.  This is a perfect 
> example of how this makes life so simple.

Oh no, here we go again.

In the hope that we can all get along, here's how
both of these arguments can be true.  And I'm sure
Guido would agree if he were reading this, unless
he was in an unusually obtuse frame of mind.

Lists are indeed homogeneous by nature, but that
doesn't mean that each element has the same type
as the next.  It means that any slice of the list
has the same "type" as any other slice.

When we are dealing with a record type, an ordered
collection of items where an item's meaning is
determined by its position, this obviously should
be a tuple.  For example, the tm struct returned
from time.localtime():  each member is an integer,
but it's not homogeneous in the list sense - the
only valid slice of a tm value is [:], any other
slice is not a tm value, its type is different
even if it is still a tuple.

When we are dealing with a regular list, its type
is the same before and after you append() a new
element.  That doesn't mean that the new element
is the same type as its predecessor, it just means
that the list isn't itself a new type now that it
has that last element.

   Donn Cave, donn at u.washington.edu


From erik at heneryd.com  Tue Apr 20 18:29:25 2004
From: erik at heneryd.com (Erik Heneryd)
Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2004 00:29:25 +0200
Subject: if (__name__ == '__main__'): main(sys.argv[1:])
In-Reply-To: <01c601c4271b$7f7300a0$b401010a@sparta>
References: <01c601c4271b$7f7300a0$b401010a@sparta>
Message-ID: <4085A445.1050303@heneryd.com>

Eli Stevens (WG.c) wrote:
> I have a question about proper Python style when it comes to having a main
> function in a module.  I'm fairly new to Python - a few months of
> very-part-time tinkering (lots'o'Java at work, shrug); my apologies if this
> has been hashed out before.  Random Googling didn't enlighten me, so instead
> I'll ask here.  :)
> 

Guido wrote an article on the subject: 
http://www.artima.com/weblogs/viewpost.jsp?thread=4829


Erik Heneryd



From rstephens at vectron.com  Sun Apr 11 10:43:06 2004
From: rstephens at vectron.com (Ron Stephens)
Date: 11 Apr 2004 07:43:06 -0700
Subject: Python is the best and most popular general purpose scripting
	language; the universal scripting language
References: <a5415304.0404101350.271088f2@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <a5415304.0404110643.21b99aef@posting.google.com>

Ok, "scripting language" is perhaps an extremely imprecise term. But,
some folks will still use it in describing Python; and I'm not sure
that is a bad thing.

I still think that Python can be meaningfully described as being the
best general purpose scripting language, sort of the Swiss Army Knife
of programming languages. No matter how many programming languages you
might already know, Python will give you a wide range of advantages in
an awful lot of problem domains. On the other hand, if you are a
business analyst or program manager and you are only going to learn
one language, Python would be the best choice for you also.

Ron Stephens
<a href = "http://www.awaretek.com/plf.html">Python Learning
Foundation</a>


From rnichol_rrc at yahoo.com  Sat Apr 17 21:49:01 2004
From: rnichol_rrc at yahoo.com (Reid Nichol)
Date: Sat, 17 Apr 2004 20:49:01 -0500
Subject: os.system help
Message-ID: <78lgc.3445$AL1.7744@news1.mts.net>

Hello,
   I have made a program that works wonderfully on OpenBSD but it uses 
os.system to get ghostscript to convert ps to jpeg.  But, I wish this 
program to run on Windows as well.  Is there any way I can snag where 
the gs executable is on Windows?  What it is named?  And so forth.



From gustabares at verizon.net  Fri Apr  9 12:27:07 2004
From: gustabares at verizon.net (Gus Tabares)
Date: 9 Apr 2004 09:27:07 -0700
Subject: Debugging extensions under VS .NET 2003
Message-ID: <c42b7031.0404090827.177bec2@posting.google.com>

This purpose of this post is to give a mini how-to on debugging Python
extensions written in C under Visual Studio .NET 2003. Please feel
free to correct any mistakes I may have made. Please realize that this
is not a comprehensive guide to debugging Python extensions; this is
only knowledge from what I have experienced. I hope that these
instructions will be handy to anyone who is having trouble debugging
Python extensions in a .NET 2003 environment.

If you want to be able to debug your extensions, you will to build a
debug version of the Python interpreter. The Python sources are freely
available on python.org.

You shouldn't need to build the entire Python environment, which
includes downloading openssl (and other) sources. Your main concern is
with the python project file.

After you compile the python project file, you should have the
following sets of files: python_d.exe (the debug interpreter),
python23_d.dll, python23_d.lib. You will need the .lib to link against
your debug extension.

Compile and link a debug version of your extension, making sure to
link against python23_d.lib. Also make sure that your extension is
named in the following format: pydname_d.pyd.  The _d is necessary
when importing from the debug interpreter.

Set your breakpoints in your extension code from within .NET. Make
sure the debug command is the full path to debug version of the Python
interpreter.

It should bring up the debug interpreter when you start debugging.
>From there you should be able to import your debug extension and
step-through your code from within .NET.

For more information and some examples, check out the readme file
located in the PC\example_nt directory of the Python sources. Note
that those instructions were written for Visual Studio 6 and not
specifically for .NET 2003.

Good luck,
Gus Tabares


From haim at babysnakes.org  Tue Apr 13 12:33:47 2004
From: haim at babysnakes.org (Haim Ashkenazi)
Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2004 19:33:47 +0300
Subject: mcmillan installer
References: <mailman.575.1081855698.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<BMmdnUQEpNTsb-bdRVn-iQ@comcast.com> <c5gvcg$ngb$1@sea.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <c5h4pb$anm$1@sea.gmane.org>

Gianluca Trombetta wrote:

> thank you Larry,
> 
> but I need to compile for linux platform and py2exe only work on windows
> :-(
you can use freeze. search for freeze.py in your python installation. 

Bye
--
Haim





From vincent at visualtrans.de  Fri Apr 16 05:09:02 2004
From: vincent at visualtrans.de (vincent wehren)
Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2004 11:09:02 +0200
Subject: Breakpoint in IDLE's debugger
In-Reply-To: <mailman.661.1082061409.20120.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.661.1082061409.20120.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <c5o7rd$su8$1@news1.tilbu1.nb.home.nl>

Batista, Facundo wrote:
> I want to start my program under the IDLE's debugger, click "Go", and let
> the program run.
> 
> But also want that if the program goes through a specific line of code, to
> stop and let me advance with "Step" or "Over" buttons.

IDLE lets you set/clear breakpoints via the right-mouse-button context 
menu when you're in the source file.

If you press "GO" the debugger will execute the code until a breakpoint 
is reached.

HTH,
Vincent Wehren


From mcfletch at rogers.com  Fri Apr 23 04:57:53 2004
From: mcfletch at rogers.com (Mike C. Fletcher)
Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2004 04:57:53 -0400
Subject: Why we will use obj$func() often
In-Reply-To: <no4ic.26268$dZ1.11413@fed1read04>
References: <d2Uhc.22272$dZ1.1600@fed1read04><84Uhc.22278$dZ1.5087@fed1read04>	<mailman.927.1082665370.20120.python-list@python.org><8AWhc.23114$dZ1.11070@fed1read04>	<mailman.939.1082697809.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<no4ic.26268$dZ1.11413@fed1read04>
Message-ID: <4088DA91.5010402@rogers.com>

Mark Hahn wrote:

>Mike C. Fletcher wrote:
>  
>
...

>Internally in the interpreter I have the full Python super function almost
>exactly.  It's no coincidence.  You need that to make inheritance work.  I
>can bring it out for the Prothon user, but I originally designed prothon
>with keywords and symbols, not functions, something I'm taking a lot of heat
>for now.
>  
>
Heat is a good way to bake ideas and remove impurities.

>You've stretched my "one more thing to pitch" statement to the extreme
>statement of "switch to this because of this one thing".   Of course one
>isn't going to care about one thing.
>  
>
Well, as I said, if you're going to have fun trolling I get to have fun 
trolling back ;) .  Basically, I'm saying this particular detail is not 
an argument worth making on its own.  The argument is going to be "it's 
a clean, simple, balanced and elegant syntax" and this level of detail 
is just part of that picture.  Artwork is judged as a whole, and one 
might critique a particular facet if it's horrible, but perfection is 
assumed otherwise.

>You may very well be right.  
>
Never happened before, why assume it'd start now :) .

>My biggest problem right now is stupid aesthetics.  I have to decide where
>to place Prothon on the continuum between lisp and perl.  
>
*poke* surely you see the humour that a Python user will derive from 
that statement :) ;) .

>When I crossed the
>line and added $ for self people screamed bloody murder that it looked like
>Perl.  Before when I had a period for self they thought it looked great.  I
>can't believe how much they care about something so silly.
>  
>
Comparatively, instance-attribute access is used three or four times a 
minute when coding, while super is used once or twice a month for 
non-framework-programmers, so yes, I can see someone screaming bloody 
murder if they suddenly are looking at a screen full of $This and $that 
variables.  $ is basically a character as far as glyphs go, it's a 
full-height glyph with ascenders and descenders, is very similar to a 
capital S, and generally makes reading code much harder as it obscures 
word-shape; .this or even self.this is much easier to read because you 
can pick out the words using your learned vocabulary of word-shapes.

    Readability counts

BTW, I'm a professional designer, so "stupid aesthetics" are what I care 
about whenever I get a chance ;) .

>Anyway, thanks very much for your input.  I'm sorry if you wore out your
>keyboard.  Luckily the prices have really come down :)
>  
>
Unfortunately, MS doesn't make the classic Natural Keyboard any more 
(they just make that darned Natural Elite and the 
egads-it's-covered-in-pointless-extra-buttons USB Natural), so I have to 
savour every keystroke ;) .

That's why I never post to newsgroups,
Mike

_______________________________________
  Mike C. Fletcher
  Designer, VR Plumber, Coder
  http://members.rogers.com/mcfletch/





From pedro_rodriguez at club-internet.fr  Fri Apr 23 05:54:24 2004
From: pedro_rodriguez at club-internet.fr (Pedro Rodriguez)
Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2004 11:54:24 +0200
Subject: python extension, -pthreads and speed
References: <4fd1aa5e.0404222336.2a1347a8@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <c6ap4q$c95$1@s1.read.news.oleane.net>

On Fri, 23 Apr 2004 09:36:08 +0200, Joseph Heled wrote:

> Hi,
> 
> My python module is built using the recommended distutils.core, which
> uses the -pthread flag. To my amazement this slows down the (-O3) code
> by a factor of two (!2)
> 
> My gcc documentation says pthread is a PowerPC flag, but I guess this is
> wrong.
> 
> Would my code fail if I drop this flag (Assuming I don't use threads at
> all)?
> 
> Why would there be such a speed penalty?
> 
> Anyone can shed some light on that?
> 
> Thanks, Joseph
> 
>>python -V
> Python 2.3
> 
>>gcc -v
> Reading specs from /usr/local/lib/gcc-lib/i686-pc-linux-gnu/3.3/specs
> Configured with: ../gcc-3.3/configure  : (reconfigured)
> ../gcc-3.3/configure --enable-languages=c,c++ Thread model: posix gcc
> version 3.3
 
My understanding of your question is : my C extension module works slower
when used through Python. If my guess is right, this isa  possible hint
on the subject.

If your extension use IOs (fgets, sprintf...) or others standard library calls,
they may be affected by the fact that Python is build with multithreading
enabled, on so all those API start using mutexes to be thread safe, thus the
extract cost. This simple C example exhibit the problem :

#include <stdio.h>

int main(int argc, char *argv[])
{
    int i;
    FILE *in;

    in = fopen("/dev/null", "r");

    for (i=0; i< 10000000; i++) {
        fgetc(in);
    }

    close(in);
}

$ gcc z.c -O3 -o z
$ time ./z

real    0m12.355s
user    0m5.810s
sys     0m6.550s

$ gcc z.c -O3 -o z -pthread
$ time ./z

real    0m16.055s
user    0m10.610s
sys     0m5.440s

Cheers,
Pedro


From No.Spam.mc at No.Spam.mclaveau.No.Spam.com  Mon Apr 26 15:27:40 2004
From: No.Spam.mc at No.Spam.mclaveau.No.Spam.com (Michel Claveau/Hamster)
Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2004 21:27:40 +0200
Subject: interfacing to a remote excel app
References: <20040426150428.69010a3c@pistache.sara.nl>
Message-ID: <c6jns2$s3g$1@news-reader3.wanadoo.fr>

Bonjour !

Pour un probl?me similaire, j'ai fais :

- sur la machine Windows/Excel : un script Python, petit serveur TCP, qui
pilote Excel par COM
- sur la machine distante un autre script Python envoie ses instructions
"Excel", via TCP, et re?oit la r?ponse en retour.

R?sultat : ?a marche bien, m?me ? travers Internet.


In english (try) :

Hi !

For a similar problem, I have make:
- on the Windows/Excel machine:  a script Python, little server TCP, which
controls Excel by COM
- on the distant machine another Python script sends its instructions
"Excel", via TCP, and receive the response in return.

Result:  it goes well, even through Internet.




@-salutations
-- 
Michel Claveau
m?l : http://cerbermail.com/?6J1TthIa8B
site : http://mclaveau.com








From nmkolev at uni-bonn.de  Thu Apr 22 01:20:42 2004
From: nmkolev at uni-bonn.de (Nickolay Kolev)
Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2004 07:20:42 +0200
Subject: Optimizing a text statistics function
In-Reply-To: <4086efbc$1@nntp0.pdx.net>
References: <c661pe$tie$1@f1node01.rhrz.uni-bonn.de>
	<c669k5$c52$07$1@news.t-online.com> <4086efbc$1@nntp0.pdx.net>
Message-ID: <c67kmc$utu$1@f1node01.rhrz.uni-bonn.de>

Scott David Daniels wrote:

> Better not to do several huge string allocs above (I suspect).
> This method lets you to work on files too large to read into memory:

... code ...

Now this is something I was thinking about when I started considering 
options for this task.

 From my understanding, for line in file('...'): is only useful if I 
want to make checks on the lines and then do something with them:

for line in file('...'):
	if line.startswith('XXX'):
		myDesiredLines.append(line)

This avoids creating a huge list of all lines and then filtering it to 
another list with only the desired ones.

In my case I want to get all the lines regardless of any condition. I 
also do not even need them as a list of lines, a single huge string is 
completely sufficient. It will be split on whitespace later anyway.

Both methods should produce the same amount of memory usage as all words 
are stored in a list. Reading a file line by line should be slower, as 
Python would have to check where the newline characters are. Please 
comment and correct, I am making assumptions here. Clarification from 
someone who know how these things are internally implemented would be nice.

Nicky


From mcfletch at rogers.com  Sat Apr 24 19:24:27 2004
From: mcfletch at rogers.com (Mike C. Fletcher)
Date: Sat, 24 Apr 2004 19:24:27 -0400
Subject: Why we will use obj$func() often
In-Reply-To: <408AECC7.7020601@prescod.net>
References: <d2Uhc.22272$dZ1.1600@fed1read04><84Uhc.22278$dZ1.5087@fed1read04>	<mailman.927.1082665370.20120.python-list@python.org><8AWhc.23114$dZ1.11070@fed1read04>	<mailman.939.1082697809.20120.python-list@python.org>	<no4ic.26268$dZ1.11413@fed1read04>
	<408AECC7.7020601@prescod.net>
Message-ID: <408AF72B.5090404@rogers.com>

Paul Prescod wrote:
...

> Yes, people are irrational. But if you care about language popularity 
> you have to take that into account. Else you end up with a language 
> that never goes mainstream like Lisp.

Oooh, lovely double entendre there... ;)

You get a smiley for that one :) .
Mike

_______________________________________
  Mike C. Fletcher
  Designer, VR Plumber, Coder
  http://members.rogers.com/mcfletch/





From noemail at noemail4u.com  Thu Apr 15 08:00:19 2004
From: noemail at noemail4u.com (Dang Griffith)
Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2004 12:00:19 GMT
Subject: Getters and setters in python, common practise
References: <407e402c$1@newsflash.abo.fi> <xfydnUmny4UrwuPd4p2dnA@powergate.ca>
	<407e6cf9@newsflash.abo.fi>
Message-ID: <08acb243aa2046aa5ba35b21e1d71fc6@news.teranews.com>

On Thu, 15 Apr 2004 14:07:25 +0300, Petter Holmstr?m <peholmst at abo.fi>
wrote:

>Peter Hansen wrote:
>>> Having a Delphi/Object Pascal-background, I'm very used to using 
>>> getters and setters when designing my classes. What is the common 
>>> practise in the Python world? Should one use them or not?
>> 
>> Max described the common practice (don't use them until you actually
>> need them) but forgot to mention that in recent versions of Python
>> you can use "properties", in pretty much the same manner as Delphi
>> uses them.
>
>I have not found any documentation on this topic. Could you please point 
>me to some?

Food for a day:
    http://www.python.org/2.2/descrintro.html#property
Teach you to fish:
    http://www.python.org/search/
    --dang


From mark at prothon.org  Wed Apr 21 04:08:47 2004
From: mark at prothon.org (Mark Hahn)
Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2004 01:08:47 -0700
Subject: Dollar sign ($) on foriegn keyboards? (prothon)
References: <mk3hc.13895$dZ1.10823@fed1read04>
	<c62m70$2hu$06$1@news.t-online.com>
	<slrnc89q11.pnv.joe@gate.notcharles.ca>
	<c631kk$9j9$04$1@news.t-online.com>
	<408629CF.30004@cosc.canterbury.ac.nz>
Message-ID: <j_phc.18414$dZ1.1460@fed1read04>

"greg" <greg at cosc.canterbury.ac.nz> wrote ...

> Indeed. It sounds more like an alien race that's
> escaped from an upcoming StarCraft expansion pack...

Yes, but a very advanced alien race :)




From spam at fisher.forestry.uga.edu  Mon Apr  5 22:41:52 2004
From: spam at fisher.forestry.uga.edu (Chris Fonnesbeck)
Date: 5 Apr 2004 19:41:52 -0700
Subject: Compact Python library for math statistics
References: <E1B9LoV-0005OQ-00@fatlady.ukr.net>
	<mailman.267.1080904644.20120.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <c3835e5f.0404051841.2812a40d@posting.google.com>

Gerrit <gerrit at nl.linux.org> wrote in message news:<mailman.267.1080904644.20120.python-list at python.org>...
> wrote:
> > I'm looking for a Python library for math statistics. This must be a cl
> ear set of general statistics functions like 'average', 'variance', 'cova
> riance' etc.
> 
> The next version of Python will have a 'statistics' module. It is
> probably usable in Python 2.3 as well. You can find it in CVS:
> 
> http://cvs.sourceforge.net/viewcvs.py/*checkout*/python/python/nondist/sa
> ndbox/statistics/statistics.py
> 
> I'm not sure whether it's usable in current CVS, though. You may have to
> tweak it a little.
> 
> Gerrit.


I'm hoping there will be more functions added to this module (e.g.
median, quantiles, skewness, kurtosis). It wouldnt take much to
include at least the basic summary stats. I would be more than happy
to contribute.

cjf


From garryknight at gmx.net  Wed Apr 14 16:31:19 2004
From: garryknight at gmx.net (Garry Knight)
Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2004 21:31:19 +0100
Subject: Looking for Python Definition
References: <ZvSdnbu-i7FDF-Hd4p2dnA@comcast.com>
Message-ID: <1081974678.10988.1@ersa.uk.clara.net>

In message <ZvSdnbu-i7FDF-Hd4p2dnA at comcast.com>, Dave wrote:

> Python22 is installed on my WINXP Home PC.
> I have no idea what is does, or why it is installed.

You posted this to comp.lang.python. The 'comp.lang' bit stands for
'computer language'.

-- 
Garry Knight
garryknight at gmx.net  ICQ 126351135
Linux registered user 182025


From kaz30 at adelphia.net  Thu Apr 29 18:28:51 2004
From: kaz30 at adelphia.net (ron)
Date: Thu, 29 Apr 2004 18:28:51 -0400
Subject: WARNING! Virus or unsafe content was found in message from
Message-ID: <000001c42e3b$fb31a760$6402a8c0@compaq7598>

How do I remove details.scr from my computer ?
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/attachments/20040429/ab9c89d4/attachment.html>

From semarketing-request at go.listdeliver.com  Sun Apr 18 16:56:09 2004
From: semarketing-request at go.listdeliver.com (semarketing-request at go.listdeliver.com)
Date: Sun, 18 Apr 2004 16:56:09 -0400
Subject: List Manager response
Message-ID: <20040418205609408.AAA228@go.listdeliver.com>

>>>> This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
**** Command 'this' not recognized.
**** No valid commands found.
**** Commands must be in message BODY, not in HEADER.

**** Help for semarketing-request at go.listdeliver.com:

Introduction to the List Manager
--------------------------------
  This is the Mailing List Manager for Post.Office version v3.5.3.
  The interface is similar to Brent Chapman's "Majordomo".  


How to Access the List Manager
------------------------------
  You can interact with the List Manager by sending commands in the body of 
  an E-mail message addressed to "semarketing-request at go.listdeliver.com".

    (Important Note:  Commands in the "Subject:" line are NOT processed.)


Available List Manager Commands
-------------------------------
  The Post.Office Mailing List Manager understands the following commands:

    (Note:  In the descriptions below items contained in []'s are optional. 
             When providing the item, do not include the []'s around it.)


    subscribe <list> [<address>]
        Subscribe yourself (or <address> if specified) to the named <list>.

    unsubscribe <list> [<address>]
        Unsubscribe yourself (or <address> if specified) from the named <list>.

    which
        Find out which lists you are on.

    who <list>
        Find out who is on the named <list>.

    info <list>
        Retrieve the general introductory information for the named <list>.

    lists
        Show the lists served by this List Manager server.

    help
        Retrieve this message.

    end
        Stop processing commands (useful if your mailer adds a signature).





From plastic"no-spam-pls" at xsintrk.net  Fri Apr 16 17:06:12 2004
From: plastic"no-spam-pls" at xsintrk.net (jeff)
Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2004 21:06:12 GMT
Subject: newbie question
References: <Xns94CCA389D3DA0plasticnospamplsxsin@216.77.188.18>
	<c5mtsl$dns$2@absinth.dialog.net.pl>
	<Xns94CCA82D89C84plasticnospamplsxsin@216.77.188.18>
	<c5mvrg$fda$1@absinth.dialog.net.pl>
	<Xns94CCAEBD1A18Eplasticnospamplsxsin@216.77.188.18>
	<c5occn$ijq@newton.cc.rl.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <Xns94CDA4FFA4F1Dplasticnospamplsxsin@216.77.188.18>

"Richard Brodie" <R.Brodie at rl.ac.uk> wrote in 
news:c5occn$ijq at newton.cc.rl.ac.uk:

> You are missing Krzysztof's point. Even if the string 'kill' is sent,
> TCP does not guarantee that is what you will receive. It is a pure
> stream system and has no concept of records or lines; that isn't likely
> the problem here but sooner or later, you *will* get burnt if you start
> thinking that if 4 characters are sent, then 4 will be received.

how can i be sure i have received the entire string?


From jamesl at appliedminds.com  Thu Apr  8 20:02:23 2004
From: jamesl at appliedminds.com (James Lamanna)
Date: Thu, 08 Apr 2004 17:02:23 -0700
Subject: Bug in struct.calcsize()
Message-ID: <4075E80F.5010602@appliedminds.com>

Nevermind.
I see that I need to make sure I turn alignment off .

-- 
James Lamanna




From try_vanevery_at_mycompanyname at yahoo.com  Mon Apr 26 11:53:59 2004
From: try_vanevery_at_mycompanyname at yahoo.com (Brandon J. Van Every)
Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2004 08:53:59 -0700
Subject: Maya API with Python?
References: <c6i321$cbgu4$1@ID-207230.news.uni-berlin.de>
	<Xns94D75A4FA74E6cpl19ghumspamgourmet@62.153.159.134>
Message-ID: <c6japm$cjnf3$1@ID-207230.news.uni-berlin.de>

Harald Massa wrote:
>> Anybody tried that?  Progress or horror stories to tell?
>
> "Industrial Light & Magic Runs on Python"
> http://www.pythonology.com/success&story=ilm
>
>
> I am sure, they also use maya.

Hmm yes but that doesn't provide specific useful information.  Also, just
because they use Python for process control of rendering farms doesn't mean
they use it for everything they do.  Now, if only ILM had a public forum, or
if some group had enough ILM people in it....

-- 
Cheers,                     www.indiegamedesign.com
Brandon Van Every           Seattle, WA

20% of the world is real.
80% is gobbledygook we make up inside our own heads.




From max at alcyone.com  Tue Apr  6 00:14:16 2004
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Mon, 05 Apr 2004 21:14:16 -0700
Subject: int('2.1') does not work while int(float('2.1')) does
References: <mailman.376.1081213637.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<40722555.66C70D40@alcyone.com>
	<slrnc74a1l.bqf.joe@gate.notcharles.ca>
Message-ID: <40722E98.253B5FF2@alcyone.com>

Joe Mason wrote:

> Why can it make this guess for "int(2.1)", then?  It's got a rule for
> converting floats to ints - why not use it here?

Because int(aFloat) means round toward zero.  int(aString) means make an
int out of this string.

-- 
 __ Erik Max Francis && max at alcyone.com && http://www.alcyone.com/max/
/  \ San Jose, CA, USA && 37 20 N 121 53 W && AIM erikmaxfrancis
\__/ Convictions are more dangerous enemies of truth than lies.
    -- Friedrich Nietzsche


From hungjunglu at yahoo.com  Tue Apr 13 00:25:47 2004
From: hungjunglu at yahoo.com (Hung Jung Lu)
Date: 12 Apr 2004 21:25:47 -0700
Subject: module not callable - why not?
References: <c56jph$rrk$05$1@news.t-online.com>	<107dras2heahcb6@news.supernews.com>
	<mailman.491.1081538569.20120.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <8ef9bea6.0404122025.36efc84e@posting.google.com>

Jack Diederich <jack at performancedrivers.com> wrote in message news:<mailman.491.1081538569.20120.python-list at python.org>...
> 
> - Don't name the module and a class in it the same thing
>   import Queue # Queue is a module
>   from Queue import Queue # Queue is a class
>   ...  

To be frank, this problem is just one of the symptoms of a sickened
programming language. Python runs into this problem (like
SimpleXMLRPCServer.SimpleXMLRPCServer) because:

(a) By historical accident, Python modules differ significantly from
regular classes. (Modules are like singleton without constructor for
multiple instantiation, and without property getters/setters.)

(b) Python uses class-based OOP, instead of prototype-based OOP.

Class-based OOP is a historical mistake. If time could be turned back,
I think people would rather start with prototype-based OOP, instead.

Because of this mistake of using class-based OOP, you have incomplete
objects like modules and classes: you usually can't use them directly,
at least not as comfortably/powerfully. Therefore, you find yourself
dealing with names like SimpleXMLPRCServer.SimpleXMLRPCServer, without
being able to collapse instance/class/module into one single object
and one single name.

regards,

Hung Jung


From skip at pobox.com  Sun Apr 18 10:20:16 2004
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Sun, 18 Apr 2004 09:20:16 -0500
Subject: Proposed PEP: Treating Builtins as Constants in the Standard
	Library
In-Reply-To: <5d83790c.0404171557.3db69f48@posting.google.com>
References: <5d83790c.0404171557.3db69f48@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <16514.36512.538734.642971@montanaro.dyndns.org>

    rh> Q. Why not make this a public module so that users can optimize
    rh>    builtins or builtins and globals in their own code?

    rh> A. The ASPN recipe [2]_ is provided for this purpose.  It takes a
    rh>    modicum of skill to use correctly and not inadvertently tranform
    rh>    a non-constant.

I thought one of the basic tenets of Python was "we're all adults here".
Programmers have unfettered access to the new module with which they can
wreak havoc.  I don't see this proposal as somehow any more dangerous.

Skip




From kkennedy65 at yahoo.com  Mon Apr 19 12:31:28 2004
From: kkennedy65 at yahoo.com (kk)
Date: 19 Apr 2004 09:31:28 -0700
Subject: Does Python compete with Java?
References: <8b336527.0404051337.51bb4a1b@posting.google.com>
	<c4taac$2lg0bc$1@ID-169208.news.uni-berlin.de>
	<e838aa6e.0404071426.7192e8e4@posting.google.com>
	<slrnc79idf.hij.ramen@lackingtalent.com>
	<e838aa6e.0404130748.1d8e1ddf@posting.google.com>
	<407deb56$1@news.unimelb.edu.au>
	<KbydnZd2qY7uyuPdRVn-uw@powergate.ca>
	<8b336527.0404151019.14b93502@posting.google.com>
	<5KydnYqkwP1ES-PdRVn-vA@powergate.ca>
Message-ID: <8b336527.0404190831.65f7f7e2@posting.google.com>

I was responding to your point made earlier.

I was the one that started the thread, look again.

Peter Hansen <peter at engcorp.com> wrote in message news:<5KydnYqkwP1ES-PdRVn-vA at powergate.ca>...
> kk wrote:
> 
> > That is exactly my point!  
> 
> Uh, sorry, but what point?  The email address and initials you
> are using here (kkennedy65 at yahoo.com and kk) have not posted
> before in this thread, as far as I can see.  So who are you? :-)
> 
> -Peter


From http  Fri Apr 16 16:10:21 2004
From: http (Paul Rubin)
Date: 16 Apr 2004 13:10:21 -0700
Subject: Difficulty Finding Python Developers
References: <65cbc3dd.0404140641.3501fde8@posting.google.com>
	<5d83790c.0404150701.605782a7@posting.google.com>
	<roy-A17A1C.12565615042004@reader2.panix.com>
	<7xpta8hqe7.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<roy-A844BA.18263715042004@reader2.panix.com>
	<7xsmf4kbac.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<roy-B8AA1E.21270915042004@reader2.panix.com>
	<7x7jwg7ipn.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<GfSdnRKGHIm2_-LdRVn-gg@powergate.ca>
	<7xwu4gzff2.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<Z66dnbE4JdrZX-LdRVn-tA@powergate.ca>
Message-ID: <7xwu4fu1jm.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

Peter Hansen <peter at engcorp.com> writes:
>    We've worked hard to convince our company to migrate our core
>    applications to Python, and now we're looking for a Python developer
>    in Atlanta to handle a short-term (approx. 3 month) project.
> 
> That's not a good way to describe either of your scenarios,
> I believe.  I think it's more of an initial foray without the
> company's future on the line type of thing...

That sounds like a sales presentation where the 3-month project is the
demo, and normally in those situations, it's important that the demo
not hit any snags.  So all the same issues apply.

The way I had read it, though, management had already been persuaded
to commit to Python, and now they had some project that they had to
get finished.


From peter at engcorp.com  Fri Apr  2 09:30:31 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Fri, 02 Apr 2004 09:30:31 -0500
Subject: Making the Zen of Python more useful
In-Reply-To: <106qp0uivlefo40@corp.supernews.com>
References: <106qp0uivlefo40@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <BPWdnVtfl7ma5PDdRVn-sw@powergate.ca>

Andrew Henshaw wrote:
> Yesterday, I was writing some test code for a module and I wanted some
> line-oriented text to use as a data source.  I thought about using a
> docstring from one of the standard modules; but, it occurred to me that the
> Zen of Python text from the 'this' module would be *much* better, as it is
> more readable and would be a nice thing for our students to see.
> 
> Unfortunately, the actual text is difficult to use:
>   o the text is ROT-13 encoded and the module's translation routine is
> inline
>   o the text is printed to stdout on import.  I understand why Tim did this,
> but it did interfere with my purpose.
> 
> So, in order to use the module for my test code, I had to implement a short
> ROT-13 translator, import the sys module, redirect stdout to a simple
> object that provided a null write method, import this, restore stdout, and
> then rot13(this.s).

I'm not sure why you had to do quite all that.  The following is 
sufficient, and you don't need a custom ROT-13 thingie:

 >>> import StringIO, sys
 >>> s = StringIO.StringIO()
 >>> sys.stdout = s
 >>> import this
 >>> sys.stdout = sys.__stdout__
 >>> s.getvalue()
"The Zen of Python, by Tim Peters\n\nBeautiful is ...

-Peter


From jjl at pobox.com  Sat Apr 24 15:28:16 2004
From: jjl at pobox.com (John J. Lee)
Date: 24 Apr 2004 20:28:16 +0100
Subject: Generic constructors and duplication of internal Python logic
References: <87ekqq41ya.fsf@pobox.com> <c5lfi6$cit$00$1@news.t-online.com>
	<87oepnzlbp.fsf@pobox.com> <c62kqc$glm$07$1@news.t-online.com>
	<87k707elth.fsf@pobox.com> <c6ai7t$o2c$03$1@news.t-online.com>
	<c6alei$hv4$05$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <87smetxjjj.fsf@pobox.com>

Peter Otten <__peter__ at web.de> writes:

> Peter Otten wrote:
> 
> > But will I stop trying to come up with something better? no way. Here's my
> > next try, and I'm likely to present something completely different again
> > if you don't like it - not sure if that's a promise or a threat :-)
> 
> A threat.
> 
> def setLocals(d, selfName="self"):
>     self = d.pop(selfName)
>     for n, v in d.iteritems():
>         setattr(self, n, v)
> 
> class Demo(object):
>     def __init__(self, foo, bar, baz=2, bang=3):
>         setLocals(locals())

Perfect!  About a hundred times better than my solution.  Maybe this
should be a Python Cookbook entry?


John


From __peter__ at web.de  Tue Apr 20 04:26:40 2004
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 10:26:40 +0200
Subject: outline-style sorting algorithm
References: <71650A6F73F1D411BE8000805F65E3CB3B3A4D@SRV-03>
	<mailman.776.1082399762.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<1088ehljpqq4195@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <c62ms1$dh4$00$1@news.t-online.com>

Michael Geary wrote:

> Interestingly enough, in Windows XP, Windows Explorer lists these files in
> numerical order:
> 
> file1
> file2
> ...
> file9
> file10
> file11

Seems they special-cased this. Can they deal with

fi1le
fi2le
fi10le

and

1file
2file
10file

too?

> It would be nice if more OS shells sorted filenames like this.

D'accord.

Peter



From simonb at NOTTHISBIT.webone.com.au  Wed Apr 14 02:49:16 2004
From: simonb at NOTTHISBIT.webone.com.au (Simon Burton)
Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2004 07:49:16 +0100
Subject: Import / export values to/from C program
References: <a5f85bbf.0404131247.1047a7d2@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <pan.2004.04.14.06.49.16.874644@NOTTHISBIT.webone.com.au>

On Tue, 13 Apr 2004 13:47:51 -0700, Steffen Jahn wrote:

> Hi,
> 
> I stumbled across Python when trying to invoke *scripts* from C programs.
> The idea is to set up some variables in the C program, export them, run a
> Python script, and, after completion, import some variables back into the
> C program. This way, I can keep the C program very flexible for certain
> types of changes.

Check out Pyrex. It can probably do what you want (whatever that is - i'm
not quite sure.)

Simon.




From arker at newton.astro.ca  Wed Apr 28 14:16:16 2004
From: arker at newton.astro.ca (Dennis Craven)
Date: Wed, 28 Apr 2004 18:16:16 GMT
Subject: Polling eth0?
Message-ID: <3cdce0bb529198fa30efae192faeea7a@news.teranews.com>

Hello,

I intend on writing a small application that monitors incoming/outgoing
traffic on eth0, and recording the bandwidth usage with monthly
totals etc..

Where would be a good place to start in regards to connecting to 
eth0 and reading such data? I am somewhat familiar with Python, and
its simple constructs, but I'm not so familiar with this network 
aspect.

Any particular modules/examples/documentation/tutorials that I should
start out reading?

Thanks,
~djc


From newsuser at itgoesclick.com  Wed Apr 21 16:14:12 2004
From: newsuser at itgoesclick.com (Noah from IT Goes Click)
Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2004 20:14:12 GMT
Subject: Active State Komodo might do it
Message-ID: <oCAhc.201082$oR5.116851@pd7tw3no>

I haven't actually checked if it does it for PHP but it says it has 
autocomplete, weather it explores your classes or not I don't know.


http://www.activestate.com/Products/Komodo/index.plex


From mark at prothon.org  Tue Apr 27 03:17:53 2004
From: mark at prothon.org (Mark Hahn)
Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2004 00:17:53 -0700
Subject: What is good about Prothon?
References: <bniq80hiib0gauiltuntk9jvia2getbnj4@4ax.com>	<mailman.31.1083031283.25742.python-list@python.org><hWkjc.635$Qy.192@fed1read04>
	<mailman.34.1083043300.25742.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <AOnjc.2555$Qy.482@fed1read04>


"Mike C. Fletcher" <mcfletch at rogers.com> wrote ...

> Maybe I should add designing languages to my list of projects starved
> for time :) .

We'd love to have you...




From kylotan at hotmail.com  Mon Apr 12 21:27:58 2004
From: kylotan at hotmail.com (Kylotan)
Date: 12 Apr 2004 18:27:58 -0700
Subject: Simple discussion of python cgi approaches?
Message-ID: <153fa67.0404121727.45b23c30@posting.google.com>

[Apologies if anyone sees this twice - at first I attempted to post it
via my ISP's news server, but my ISP is notorious for poor news
handling and I don't see it on Google Groups as having got through
yet.]

I've been writing a CGI app with Python 2.3 and Apache. It's ok, but a
bit slow, and I assume a significant part of this is the process
start-up time, among other things. So I'm interested in alternatives
or optimisations. The problem is, there doesn't seem to be the kind of
information out there that I want. There seem to be plenty of places
that throw a list of URLs at you (eg.
http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/moinmoin/WebProgramming,
http://phaseit.net/claird/comp.lang.python/web_python.html), and a few
sites that will give the absolute basics of CGI programming itself
(which I don't need).

I'm particularly confused by a few people advocating things like
Xitami + LRWP for being very simple, yet it can't possibly be simpler
than just dropping a cgi script into a directory, as I do with Apache,
and the docs on LRWP
(http://www.imatix.com/html/xitami/index12.htm#TOC114) make it look
like I'd have to do significant rewriting of the scripts. It describes
itself as being like FastCGI which, if true, doesn't exactly endear
FastCGI to me either.

All I want is a short description on the technologies that very
closely resemble standard CGI, what they have to offer me, and what
sort of alterations I would have to make to my installation or code in
order to use these. Does such a comparison exist already? If not, is
anybody able to comment on their own experiences with Python CGI apps?

-- 
Ben Sizer


From jcarlson at uci.edu  Mon Apr 12 00:50:57 2004
From: jcarlson at uci.edu (Josiah Carlson)
Date: Sun, 11 Apr 2004 21:50:57 -0700
Subject: maximum length of a list & tuple
In-Reply-To: <LKWdnSm0Fq4VZuTdRVn-ug@powergate.ca>
References: <c54lq3$2pe1sf$1@ID-202776.news.uni-berlin.de>
	<bvednZaKK7OybejdRVn-iQ@centurytel.net>
	<c55okv$2o3eql$1@ID-202776.news.uni-berlin.de>
	<c59igu$hto$1@news.service.uci.edu>
	<hlhh70drqg7fhvn9e3keosdvdp01ulok7r@4ax.com>
	<c5avps$qh$1@news.service.uci.edu>
	<LKWdnSm0Fq4VZuTdRVn-ug@powergate.ca>
Message-ID: <c5d7e1$iib$1@news.service.uci.edu>

> Actually, unless I'm mistaken that stores only one integer, and a whole
> lot of references to it...  which are just pointers (4 bytes each).
> 
> The technique is probably flawed in other ways, however, as it
> is likely subject to memory fragmentation and other problems.

You can't just store the integer.  How would you differentiate between 
an integer in a list and a pointer?  Answer: you must use PyIntObjects. 
  Use the source.

According to intobject.c, intobject.h and object.h, the structure of 
every intobject (after the macros have been expanded) is as follows:

typedef struct {
     int ob_refcnt;
     _typeobject *ob_type;
     long ob_ival;
} PyIntObject;

The size of each of those on a 32 bit machine is 4 bytes, plus the 
pointer from the list (another 4 bytes), which leaves us with a total of 
16 bytes per integer object in the list.

Checking the memory usage of Python before and after the creation of 1 
million integer list, I get a /very/ consistant ~16 bytes per.  That 
would be 12 bytes for the object, and 4 bytes for each pointer in the 
list.  There is some additional overhead that you'd notice in 
intobject.c and/or intobject.h, but yeah.  Generally 16 bytes per integer.

As for memory fragmentation, considering how memory paging and 
segmentation works, that's all underlying stuff that the OS deals with. 
  I could go on as to why it doesn't matter in this case (considering 
the large mallocs necessary for the creation of large lists), but I'll 
leave that as an exercise to the reader.


Again, from the source, 12 bytes for the object, 4 bytes for the pointer 
in the list, total of 16 bytes per intobject in a list.

  - Josiah


From anton at vredegoor.doge.nl  Thu Apr  8 14:29:26 2004
From: anton at vredegoor.doge.nl (Anton Vredegoor)
Date: Thu, 08 Apr 2004 20:29:26 +0200
Subject: Working with bytes.
References: <406EE606.4000604@yahoo.com>
	<mailman.308.1081013778.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<406f33b6$0$30963$3a628fcd@reader1.nntp.hccnet.nl>
	<wzk70vrbnv.fsf@Ordesa.local>
	<4071273d$0$132$3a628fcd@reader1.nntp.hccnet.nl>
	<4071539F.718DBD1A@pobox.com>
Message-ID: <40759a1c$0$140$3a628fcd@reader1.nntp.hccnet.nl>

Jason Harper <JasonHarper at pobox.com> wrote:

>Anton Vredegoor wrote:
>> I wonder whether it would be possible to use more than six bits per
>> byte but less than seven? There seem to be some character codes left
>> and these could be used too?
>
>Look up Base85 coding (a standard part of PostScript) for an example of
>how this can be done - 4 bytes encoded per 5 characters of printable ASCII.

Thanks to you and Piet for mentioning this. I found some other
interesting application of Base85 encoding. It's used for a scheme to
encode ipv6 addresses (which use 128 bits). Since a md5 digest is 16
bytes (== 128 bits) there's a possibility to use this scheme. See 

http://www.faqs.org/rfcs/rfc1924.html 

for the details. 

Anton

from string import digits, ascii_letters

_rfc1924_chars = digits+ascii_letters+'!#$%&()*+-;<=>?@^_`{|}~'
_rfc1924_table = dict([(c,i) for i,c in enumerate(_rfc1924_chars)])
_rfc1924_bases = [85L**i for i in range(20)]

def bytes_to_rfc1924(sixteen):
    res = []
    i = 0L
    for byte in sixteen:
        i <<= 8
        i |= ord(byte)
    for j in range(20):
        i,k = divmod(i,85)
        res.append(_rfc1924_chars[k])
    return "".join(res)

def rfc1924_to_bytes(twenty):
    res = []
    i = 0L
    for b,byte in zip(_rfc1924_bases,twenty):
        i +=  b*_rfc1924_table[byte]
    for j in range(16):
        k = i & 255
        res.append(chr(k))
        i >>= 8
    res.reverse()
    return "".join(res)

def test():
    import md5
    
    #md5.digest returns 16 bytes == 128 bits, an ipv6 address
    #also uses 128 bits (I don't know which format so I'm using md5
    #as a dummy placeholder to get 16 bytes of 'random' data)
    
    bytes = md5.new('9034572345asdf').digest()
    r = bytes_to_rfc1924(bytes)
    print r
    check = rfc1924_to_bytes(r)
    assert bytes == check
    
if __name__=='__main__':
    test()

output:

k#llNFNo4sYFxKn*J<lB



From greg at cosc.canterbury.ac.nz  Mon Apr 26 01:13:58 2004
From: greg at cosc.canterbury.ac.nz (Greg Ewing)
Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2004 17:13:58 +1200
Subject: Regexp optimization question
In-Reply-To: <698f09f8.0404240819.1d3c6001@posting.google.com>
References: <slrnc8gal3.9da.mlh@furu.idi.ntnu.no>
	<c6a8ku$jga$1@newsreader2.netcologne.de>
	<slrnc8ieul.7j7.mlh@furu.idi.ntnu.no>
	<698f09f8.0404240819.1d3c6001@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <c6i5qm$c88qv$2@ID-169208.news.uni-berlin.de>

Jeremy Fincher wrote:
> It's important to note that many of these features turn the
> expressions that represent their use into decidedly non-regular
> expressions, regardless of what Pythoneers and Perlers call them :)

Indeed, which is one reason Plex doesn't do them. Plex
converts all the REs into a big DFA, which means that
Plex REs must truly be regular.

This is the price you pay for scanning time independent
of the complexity of the REs.

-- 
Greg Ewing, Computer Science Dept,
University of Canterbury,	
Christchurch, New Zealand
http://www.cosc.canterbury.ac.nz/~greg



From jepler at unpythonic.net  Fri Apr 23 07:37:19 2004
From: jepler at unpythonic.net (Jeff Epler)
Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2004 06:37:19 -0500
Subject: Help: Fatal Python error: deletion of interned string failed
In-Reply-To: <C8AA3BBE6E9DFB47A809842248F876E20814B8@pitagoras.xgs-spain.com>
References: <C8AA3BBE6E9DFB47A809842248F876E20814B8@pitagoras.xgs-spain.com>
Message-ID: <20040423113719.GB2150@unpythonic.net>

This indicates some kind of refcounting problem with interned strings.
(string_dealloc was called for a mortal interned string, but removal of
that string from the dict of interned strings failed for some reason)

If you can find a case where this happens without using third-party
modules like db2, you should file it as a bug on
    http://sourceforge.net/projects/python

I have never heard of this error before, so it must be uncommon/hard to
trigger or due to a module that few in the community use.

Interned strings were made mortal in Python 2.3, so this could be a 2.2
vs 2.3 incompatibility in some third-party module.

Jeff



From claird at lairds.com  Sat Apr  3 10:16:49 2004
From: claird at lairds.com (Cameron Laird)
Date: Sat, 03 Apr 2004 15:16:49 -0000
Subject: Principles of documentation (was: Python Documentation Blows!)
References: <40699A31.8000708@yahoo.com> <c4djdd$sir$1@news.service.uci.edu>
	<406A5892.7030809@mlug.missouri.edu>
	<c4dpro$5vg$1@news.service.uci.edu>
Message-ID: <106tlb1co98gb0d@corp.supernews.com>

In article <c4dpro$5vg$1 at news.service.uci.edu>,
Josiah Carlson  <jcarlson at uci.edu> wrote:
			.
			.
			.
>better.  Maybe it was that year of only really knowing C and C++ that 
>makes the difference, but I've never had issue with the wxWidgets 
>documentation.
>
>While I prefer Python's name with description later, having the type of 
>input and output from the function call given in the function definition 
>is convenient.  Programming with a language that is static typed may be 
>a pain in the ass, but it is damn convenient when you are looking at 
>documentation.  Even though wxWidgets class definitions can have huge 
>initialization argument lists, generally you can be sure of what you are 
>supposed to pass into something, and what you can expect in return.
>
>
>  - Josiah

We're different--always interesting.  As a heavy consumer and
producer of documentation, "having the type .. in the function
definition is convenient" intrigues me.  Clouding my thoughts
a bit is C's wimpy type system ('love the language, 'recognize
its limits).  Your proposition sounds to me much like what we
used to believe about compile-time syntax checking, versus
more robust and application-specific unit tests.

My preliminary reaction, therefore:  yes, indeed, type declar-
ations are important, Python documenters should be particularly
careful always to specify them explicitly, and, if anything,
Python has the chance to improve on the standards C and C++ set,
as its typing is stronger.
-- 

Cameron Laird <claird at phaseit.net>
Business:  http://www.Phaseit.net


From flupke at nonexistingdomain.com  Fri Apr 23 22:42:10 2004
From: flupke at nonexistingdomain.com (flupke)
Date: Sat, 24 Apr 2004 02:42:10 GMT
Subject: [OT] Plone
Message-ID: <6ukic.84257$cd.5573763@phobos.telenet-ops.be>

Hi,

i've read some user comments on Zope. As was to be expected some say
it's cool, others says it's difficult and not easy to debug.
I would use Plone as CMS for our intranet which will also be a platform
for our tools. Does plone make it even more difficult to get going or does
it
hide some of the difficulties of Zope?
I'm kind of in a dillema here, the more i read about Python, the more i like
it. As it seems mod_python/FCGI is a good combo to bring Python power
to the web but since they want a CMS and i don't have time to write one
from the ground up, i'm thinking of using Plone.
I have my doubts about Zope especially from the viewpoint
of administration. I will have to maitain the systems where it runs on also.

Any comments?
flupke





From newsgroups at jhrothjr.com  Wed Apr  7 18:25:03 2004
From: newsgroups at jhrothjr.com (John Roth)
Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2004 18:25:03 -0400
Subject: Are line continuations needed?
References: <mailman.418.1081348606.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<1078dq6i93pc12d@news.supernews.com>
	<1078skqn9hgdd19@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <1079015hfg56i28@news.supernews.com>


"Michael Geary" <Mike at DeleteThis.Geary.com> wrote in message
news:1078skqn9hgdd19 at corp.supernews.com...
> John Roth wrote:
> > [Backslash line continuations are], I believe, planned for
> > removal in 3.0. Remember that 3.0 will break everything
> > anyway: it's the release for incompatible changes.
>
> If this is true, it will put Python at a disadvantage compared to Perl
with
> regard to multiline strings. I thought David Bolen's example was pretty
> compelling.
>
> Without the backslash continuation, you're forced to write multiline
strings
> with the first line indented differently from the rest of the lines:
>
> mystring = """first line
> second line
> third line"""
>
> Yuck.
>
> Backslash continuation fixes this, as David showed:
>
> mystring = """\
> first line
> second line
> third line"""
>
> Maybe there will be some other way to do clean multiline strings in Python
> 3.0?

Since you aparently used tab indentation, your examples came
through with no indentation, so I can't tell what you're talking about.

I've seen a number of ways of handling pretty-printing multi line
strings while still making them come out the way you want.

For example, as someone else mentioned, you could do this:

mystring = ("first line"
                  "second line"
                  "Third line")

The parenthesis handle the continuations, and automatic concatination
of adjacent strings take care of the rest.

Or if you want to use a multi-line string, then you could split it on
whitespace and then join it again with a single space separator.

There are a number of other things you can do, and some of them
would be rather difficult to support syntactical.

John Roth
>
> -Mike
>
>




From benn at cenix-bioscience.com  Wed Apr 21 12:18:09 2004
From: benn at cenix-bioscience.com (Neil Benn)
Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2004 18:18:09 +0200
Subject: Optimizing a text statistics function
In-Reply-To: <mb4d80lu4jakcqlq7bkel0f5jm6913vosh@4ax.com>
References: <c661pe$tie$1@f1node01.rhrz.uni-bonn.de>
	<mb4d80lu4jakcqlq7bkel0f5jm6913vosh@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <40869EC1.8030504@cenix-bioscience.com>

Hello,

             I don't know python as well as most people on this list so 
this is a leading question. 

    In other languages I've used (mainly java although some C, C# VB 
<wash out your mouth>), the way I woud look at speeding this up is to 
avoid loading all the words into memory in one go and then working upon 
them.  I'd create one stream which reads through the file, then passes 
onto a listener each word it finds from the lexing (making the input 
into tokens) and then another stream listening to this which will then 
sort out the detail from these tokens (parsing), finally an output 
stream which put this data wherever it needs to be (DB, screen, file, 
etc).  This means that the program would scale better (if you pass the 
European voting register through your system it would take exponentially 
much longer as you must scan the information twice).

    However as more experienced python programmers have not suggested 
this is this because there is :

a.  Something I'm not getting about python text handling
b. Not easy/possible in python

    I ask this because I've been looking at (C)StringIO and it is OK for 
this kind of behaviour using strings (reading from a serial port and 
passing onto middleware) but it doesn't seem to have the ability to 
remove characters from the buffer once they have been read, therefore 
the buffer will grow and grow as the process runs.  For now I'm having 
to use strings which is less than ideal because they are immutable (I 
was think of writing my own StringBuffer class will will discard 
characters once they have been read from the StringBuffer) and therefore 
my program scales badly.

    However I do agree with the earlier poster - don't optimise for 
speed unless you need to (I'm assuming this is an academic exercise and 
I'm waiting to go to the pub)!!!  Simplicity of design is usually a 
better win.

Cheers,

Neil

Dennis Lee Bieber wrote:

>On Wed, 21 Apr 2004 16:51:56 +0200, Nickolay Kolev <nmkolev at uni-bonn.de>
>declaimed the following in comp.lang.python:
>
>  
>
>>It is really simple - it reads the file in memory, splits it on 
>>whitespace, strips punctuation characters and transforms all remaining 
>>elements to lowercase. It then looks through what has been left and 
>>creates a list of tuples (count, word) which contain each unique word 
>>and the number of time it appears in the text.
>>
>>    
>>
>	Without looking at the code, I'd probably drop the use of the
>tuples for a dictionary keyed by the word, with the data being the
>count. Granted, the output would not be easily sorted...
>
>	Okay, you do have a dictionary...
>
>	I suggest dropping the initialization pass -- for common words
>it's going to be redundant... Dictionaries have a method for supplying a
>default value if a key doesn't exist. See the following:
>
>
>##	for x in strippedWords:
>##		unique[x] = 0
>##
>##	for x in strippedWords:
>##		unique[x] += 1
>
>	for x in strippedWords:
>		unique[x] = unique.get(x, 0) + 1
>
>
>--  
> > ============================================================== <
> >   wlfraed at ix.netcom.com  | Wulfraed  Dennis Lee Bieber  KD6MOG <
> >      wulfraed at dm.net     |       Bestiaria Support Staff       <
> > ============================================================== <
> >           Home Page: <http://www.dm.net/~wulfraed/>            <
> >        Overflow Page: <http://wlfraed.home.netcom.com/>        <
>  
>

-- 

Neil Benn
Senior Automation Engineer
Cenix BioScience
PfotenhauerStrasse 108
D-01307
Dresden
Germany

Tel : +49 (351) 210 1300
e-mail : benn at cenix-bioscience.com
Cenix Website : http://www.cenix-bioscience.com




From mab at iee  Mon Apr  5 10:06:34 2004
From: mab at iee (Marco Bartel)
Date: Mon, 05 Apr 2004 16:06:34 +0200
Subject: How to assign a default constant value in a function declaration
In-Reply-To: <Xns94C252B3C74BBrzed@63.223.5.95>
References: <mailman.341.1081121191.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<Xns94C252B3C74BBrzed@63.223.5.95>
Message-ID: <40716899$1@news.vo.lu>

rzed wrote:
> "Vineet Jain" <vineet at eswap.com> wrote in
> news:mailman.341.1081121191.20120.python-list at python.org: 
> 
> 
>>The following does not work although it seems like something you
>>should be able to do.
>>
>>def someFunction(option=Constants.DEFAULT_VALUE):
>>
> 
> Do you mean in a context like this?
> 
> 
>>>>class Const:
> 
> ...    someVal=255
> ...    otherVal=0
> ...
> 
>>>>Const.someVal
> 
> 255
> 
>>>>someVal=255
>>>>someVal
> 
> 255
> 
>>>>def blip(Const.someVal):
> 
>   File "<stdin>", line 1
>     def blip(Const.someVal):
>                   ^
> SyntaxError: invalid syntax
> 
>>>>def blip(someVal):
> 
> ...    (no syntax error)
> 
> 
> I've wondered about that, too. 
> 
> 

i checked this out, and i think its the name you were using:

Const

i tried this, and it works fine

 >class mconst:
 >	testval = 255

 >def testme(test = mconst.testval)
 >	print test

 >print testme()

255


if this is what you wanted dont use the word const for the class

CU
Marco



From claird at lairds.com  Fri Apr 30 22:43:32 2004
From: claird at lairds.com (Cameron Laird)
Date: Sat, 01 May 2004 02:43:32 -0000
Subject: calling functions at the same time
References: <c6udda$qpv$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu>
	<1095ijdb5jotvf1@corp.supernews.com>
	<c6unuq$d0f$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu>
Message-ID: <10963mkpkdpn3fa@corp.supernews.com>

In article <c6unuq$d0f$1 at solaris.cc.vt.edu>,
Bart Nessux  <bart_nessux at hotmail.com> wrote:
			.
			.
			.
>I need to ping 4 hosts at exactly the same time from the  same machine (I
>plan to timestamp the pings) to test and measure network conditions over
>different routes to different hosts. Putting all the ping hosts in a list
>and looping through it is not a fair or balanced way to do this because of
>the time differences. 
>
>
>
>> It turns 
>> out "simultaneously" has a plethora of meanings, and you're the
>> only one in a position to get others to understand which you
>> have in mind.
>
>I mean it to mean: at the *exact* same time... concurrently. Like runners
>starting a race together.
>
>> 
>> It'll also help to know whether you mean "function" as specific
>> to the Python language, or more abstractly, as a unit of useful
>> accomplishment.
>
>Specific to Python.

Good description!  We're definitely getting somewhere.

How serious are you about this??  More specifically, do
you have in mind a conventional desktop host, or are you
investing in specialized hardware and firmware?  On a 
conventional rig, your network traffic will be sequenced;
a single networking interface, say, can't emit four signals
simultaneously, but *must* do first one packet, then the
next, then ...  Are you OK with that?

What does "ping" mean to you?  Do you have in mind the
command-line executable, or are you planning to shape your
own ICMP traffic?
-- 

Cameron Laird <claird at phaseit.net>
Business:  http://www.Phaseit.net


From hungjunglu at yahoo.com  Sun Apr  4 11:51:20 2004
From: hungjunglu at yahoo.com (Hung Jung Lu)
Date: 4 Apr 2004 08:51:20 -0700
Subject: Working with a list in a more ?pythonic? way
References: <20040404124833458+0200@news.rhrz.uni-bonn.de>
Message-ID: <8ef9bea6.0404040751.192a9c64@posting.google.com>

Nickolay Kolev <nmkolev at uni-bonn.de> wrote in message news:<20040404124833458+0200 at news.rhrz.uni-bonn.de>...
> 
> Having a string consisting of letters only, find out the total sound 
> score of the string. The sound score is calculated as the sum of the 
> transition scores between the characters in that string. The transition 
> scores are stored in a 26 x 26 matrix. I.e. the transition A -> F would 
> have the score soundScoreMatrix[0][5].

My attempt here:

import operator
soundScoreMatrix = [[.1,]*26]*26 # sample score matrix
phrase = 'abracadabra'
cap_phrase = phrase.upper()
indices = [ord(c)-65 for c in cap_phrase]
scores = [soundScoreMatrix[indices[i-1]][indices[i]] 
          for i in range(1, len(indices))]
sum = reduce(operator.add, scores)
print sum

regards,

Hung Jung


From ajsiegel at optonline.com  Tue Apr  6 12:04:44 2004
From: ajsiegel at optonline.com (Arthur)
Date: 6 Apr 2004 09:04:44 -0700
Subject: slightly OT: BUT NEEDs to be said
References: <lvOdnRJzZ9244ezdRVn-uQ@powergate.ca>	<8b42d1998c978c8c1cddf15c52a1c57b@dizum.com>
	<mailman.369.1081197825.20120.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <213df9a1.0404060804.33d68297@posting.google.com>

"Mike C. Fletcher" <mcfletch at rogers.com> wrote in message news:<mailman.369.1081197825.20120.python-list at python.org>...

> Sometimes other 
> people like TV shows we think are insipid or offensive, this too is part 
> of life, and if you realise and accept that (within reason) you'll be 
> happier and more content.

Despite having loud issues about community conformity and peer
pressures (isolated issues, but loud ones) I must say that the fact
that the Holy Grail movie was one of only 3 I ever walked out on,
hasn't seemed to brand me. I was feeling particularly fragile, I
remember, and looking for comic relief.  The dismembering stuff - as a
comic notion - didn't work for me, at the moment. Wuss.

For those on the edge of their seats:

2. Problem Child: "If he pees in the lemonade" , I told my son, "we're
out of here".  He pees in the lemonade.

3. Priscilla Queen of the Desert: There were options, it seemed to me.
Take off the dress in the Outback, being one. There has to be a way to
promote a message of tolerance, it seems to me, without making putzes
out of guys living on their brawn and wits in the Outback.

Art


From cybermanxu at hotmail.com  Wed Apr 21 22:14:48 2004
From: cybermanxu at hotmail.com (Jinming Xu)
Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2004 21:14:48 -0500
Subject: A python telnet entry level question
Message-ID: <BAY9-F37szaiarN4spL00070ed5@hotmail.com>

Hello Everyone,

I am trying to write a python script to telnet to a server and then do 
something there. As the first step, I practiced the python example in Lib 
Reference 11.13.2. But I am finding the script stops after I supplied the 
password.  Does anyone know why?


Thanks in advance!

Jinming Xu

PS: Here is the script:

import getpass
import sys
import telnetlib

HOST = "localhost"
user = raw_input("Enter your remote account: ")
password = getpass.getpass()

tn = telnetlib.Telnet(HOST)

tn.read_until("login: ")
tn.write(user + "\n")
if password:
    tn.read_until("Password: ")
    tn.write(password + "\n")

tn.write("ls\n")
tn.write("exit\n")

print tn.read_all()

_________________________________________________________________
MSN Toolbar provides one-click access to Hotmail from any Web page ? FREE 
download! http://toolbar.msn.com/go/onm00200413ave/direct/01/




From jcarlson at uci.edu  Sun Apr  4 14:18:16 2004
From: jcarlson at uci.edu (Josiah Carlson)
Date: Sun, 04 Apr 2004 11:18:16 -0700
Subject: Python is faster than C
In-Reply-To: <c4ouri$9kf$1@news-reader2.wanadoo.fr>
References: <406F0907.96F37EA1@tunes.org>
	<c4n9qf$jgq$1@news-reader4.wanadoo.fr>
	<c4nctk$pp3$3@news.service.uci.edu>
	<c4ouri$9kf$1@news-reader2.wanadoo.fr>
Message-ID: <c4pjng$39t$1@news.service.uci.edu>

> Yes, but Psyco is writted in C & Python, and it use an C module.
> Said "Psyco is faster than C", it's like said "Psyco is faster than Psyco".

You probably meant "C is faster than C".  That is a reasonable 
statement, but users of Psyco don't need to write anything special 
beyond a handful of extra statements in Python.

To the user, Psyco is a module that makes things fast.  They wrote 
everything in Python, so to them, "Python with Psyco is faster than C" 
is far more accurate.

  - Josiah


From __peter__ at web.de  Sun Apr 25 13:54:16 2004
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Sun, 25 Apr 2004 19:54:16 +0200
Subject: List operator overloading snag
References: <8TCdnQn1OKieaRbdRWPC-w@speakeasy.net>
Message-ID: <c6gu08$p7f$05$1@news.t-online.com>

Steven Brent wrote:

>>>> print S1 or S2
> Set: ['s', 'p', 'a', 'm'] # custom __repr__ used but still default
>                           # __or__ behavior, returns first true operand
> 
>>>> print S1.__or__(S2)
> using Set.__or__
> Set: ['s', 'p', 'a', 'm', 'c', 't'] # now all the custom behaviors

Try S1 | S2 instead, __or__() somewhat misleadingly implements the | aka
"bitwise or" operator.

Peter


From loic at yermat.net1.nerim.net  Sat Apr  3 13:04:40 2004
From: loic at yermat.net1.nerim.net (Yermat)
Date: Sat, 03 Apr 2004 20:04:40 +0200
Subject: Verifying temporal properties. Need problems.
In-Reply-To: <Xns94C0A74C3C673bjornhb3yahoose@193.10.250.152>
References: <68771ca.0404010839.39b0c24f@posting.google.com>
	<c4jrm2$7n7$1@arcturus.ciril.fr>
	<Xns94C0A74C3C673bjornhb3yahoose@193.10.250.152>
Message-ID: <c4mu9p$29us$1@biggoron.nerim.net>

Bjorn Heimir Bjornsson a ?crit :

> Hello Loic
> I'm working with control flow only, generating pushdown systems from the
> AST that are then checked with the model checker Moped (using LTL
> properties).
> A similar approach was taken for JavaCard
> (http://www.sics.se/fdt/vericode/jcave.html). 
> I chose Python for fun, but at the moment support just a limited subset.
> I'm unsure how far I will/can go. E.g. some dynamic stuff can't be analysed 
> statically. I also just ignore all data flow, which simplifies everything but 
> means I will not recognise all control flow correctly. 
> I checked some small non-python-specific problems, but experience of others 
> suggest that the aproach scales quite well. 
> This is an MSc thesis, I haven't published anything else. 
> Bjorn

Hi,
Ok I see.
Instead of searching the workflow yourself you might look at PyPY. There 
is a class (see translator.py) that construct such a flow. I have also 
construct a simple data flow to check if a variable used was previously 
defined.

On monday, I will show you a kind of workflow I'm creating in case mine 
is more complete than yours...

Anyway, you're right that with dinamic stuff, analysis is difficult. But 
with research like StarKiller (Type Inference) it should become more and 
more easier...

I will wait for your publication ;-)

Lo?c



From usenet_spam at janc.invalid  Fri Apr 30 23:02:24 2004
From: usenet_spam at janc.invalid (JanC)
Date: Sat, 01 May 2004 03:02:24 GMT
Subject: Modules to create XML for OpenOffice
References: <mailman.117.1083258426.25742.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <Xns94DC33437939DJanC@213.118.38.102>

"Ellinghaus, Lance" <lance.ellinghaus at eds.com> schreef:

> Has anyone created a set of modules to facilitate creation of XM Document
> files for OpenOffice?

There is some stuff in the docutils "sandbox":
<http://docutils.sf.net/>

And on systems that have OOo 1.1.0 or higher installed, you can use the 
Python-UNO bridge:
<http://udk.openoffice.org/python/python-bridge.html>

-- 
JanC

"Be strict when sending and tolerant when receiving."
RFC 1958 - Architectural Principles of the Internet - section 3.9


From merv at spidernet.com.cy  Mon Apr 12 16:50:15 2004
From: merv at spidernet.com.cy (merv hammer)
Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2004 23:50:15 +0300
Subject: A new OS
In-Reply-To: <a8623416.0404120955.520215f2@posting.google.com>
References: <107k441hitt2ld9@corp.supernews.com>
	<a8623416.0404120955.520215f2@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <20040412205015.GA4746@spidernet.com.cy>

On Mon, Apr 12, 2004 at 10:55:55AM -0700, Corey Coughlin wrote:
> I think it sounds like a great idea.  I'd ultimately like to go a
> direction like that at some point.  One of the biggest problems with
> existing operating systems (like Windows or Linux) is that they are
> for the most part built on C, which then dictates what the low level
> calls look like, the memory architecture, and so on.  Writing an OS in
> Python could give you a new perspective on mapping a high level
> architecture onto a machine.  Imagine, for instance, an OS
> architecture with a genuine object hierarchy, where low level details
> get abstracted into a machine level that can be swapped out to conform
> to different processor architectures, where garbage collection is an
> OS service, and maybe the filesystem is actually an object persistance
> system, so every file is actually an object with type instead of a bag
> of bytes, and then imagine how easy it would be to add advanced
> indexing a la Chandler to it.  Could we then distribute programs as
> only python bytecode, getting platform independence?  Would it be
> easier adding security using higher levels of abstraction?  How about
> creating a complete network OS?  Would that be easier in python?  In
> general, as you abstract complex os services into simpler python code,
> would it be easier to expand the capabilities of your os?  I can't
> imagine that it would be harder.  It could be quite an interesting
> project, if conducted with the aim of not just making yet another
> generic operating system, but with the aim of creating a truly
> pythonic OS.  That would be great.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "A Evans" <ae> wrote in message news:<107k441hitt2ld9 at corp.supernews.com>...
> > Hello Everyone I am working towards starting a project developing a new
> > Operating System using the Python language (or a derivative thereof). As
> > recommended on this forum I am asking if people are interested in something
> > like this and ask who would be willing to support a project this large.
> > 
> > Any and all ideas are welcome this message is just to see what kind of
> > support this project would recieve
> > 
> > Cheers
> > 
> > Andrew
> -- 
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

Hi there,

just to let you know, perhaps as encouragement, that I am working on the 
foundations of an extensible shell (not surprisingly referred to as an xshell) 
which is really a BASH shell with all its functionality intact but which could 
be used interactively (at the command line) and via scripts using Python. This
idea was born in discussions on a Gentoo list while contemplating the pros and
cons of the Gentoo Portage Tree being written in Python.  I know the idea is notreally new, but it has intrigued me ever since,to the point where I succumbed 
and decided to start thrashing out how it might be done.

I just want to stress that xshell, as it is now, is not a Python shell per se, 
so to speak, but an e(x)tensible BASH shell in which Python language support can
be compiled-in at compile/install time, after which one may be able to switch
interactively between the sh dialect and Python at the command line and in 
BASH scripts. I am barely at Base One with the whole thing yet, with work and a
motley crew of four young babies, I get only a few hours a night at it at best.
I am at the stage of sketching a Python syntax for the prompt that will 
enable piping, backgrounding etc etc interatively. 

This little pet project of mine has generated quite some debate, among 
colleagues at work and developers and users on lists.  The debate ranges from anunderstandable incredulity such as the "Why bother - learn sh!" to concerns over
performance, file handling dynamics, and the thin-end-of-the-wedge syndrome 
("if you build-in support for Python language syntax at the BASH shell 
environment, next people will be scripting the BASH shell in Ruby, or even 
Javascript!", by which no offense is meant to Ruby or JS coders, but rather 
that the BASH environment will become fragmented and less usable [consider, how
would someone who has learned sh but does not know Python edit a BASH script written in Python? clearly a valid issue]).  I am fully aware, as a developer and 
sometime-sysadmin that the power of BASH/SH is not just in its builtins but alsoin the fact that wherever one goes, its the same, give or take a bug fix across
releases or a syntactical nuance across platforms. And this is before we even 
come to the issue of having a Python interpreter or some slimline version of onerunning in such as way as to catch instances of "live" interactive Python code
from the commandline without having to fire up the whole Python engine 
everytime a single command is issued at the prompt.

Anyway, without dismissing these and the whole stack of other issues related to it, here's my position:

as an experienced C coder, I'm not looking to supplant the C-code base of *nix
environments with Python because I don't like C.  However, I do believe that 
there may be something to be said for the "tool-for-the-job" concept and there 
certainly are everyday tasks, sh routines and BASH scripts out there that might be well-served by a Python make-over. 

I believe there is much to be said for the conceptually clean development that 
can (in the best of worlds) emerge from the kind of programming involved in the
use of syntactically clean high-levellers such as Python.  I "hack" C-code for aliving and it seems to me that the very structure of C itself lends itself to 
be "hacked" (in the *nix sense) since the code can easily and quickly become
obtuse, highly stylised (in an review-inefficient way, according to the nuances
and stylistic habits of each C coder) and does not lend itself well to a living
and changing development process, however modular and OO the C code may itself
be.  However, with such a clean, well-designed and expansive language as Python, one almost naturally (this is my feeling at least) begins to think in terms of extensibility and the future. For this reason, I am working on the hunch (I may
well be very very wrong, of course) that Python may well turn out to be a 
useful and versatile BASH environment language.  Using standard Python 
functionality, one may be able to extend dramatically the range of builtins
available in the BASH shell by simply coding them and importing them as modules,for example.

Thirdly, I believe that Linux, the free Unix flavours and the Open Source/Free Software world is about choice.  Is there a way to build on the tools that are 
at our fingertips to offer more choice and possibilities to the user without at
the same time running the risk of fragmenting existing and effective user practices?

OK. that's enough from me. A python OS would be a very interesting project and
perhaps an important experiment in finding new ways to look at and interpret what we do as developers and users.

Lastly,  I for one would be very enthused at the idea of being able to offer my meagre skills and experience to assist in such a project.

kind regards

m
-- 
Merv Hammer	
-------------------------------------------------------------
mail:merv at spidernet.com.cy    	
GPG PK: 7BC2A589                



From michael at foord.net  Wed Apr 14 04:01:04 2004
From: michael at foord.net (Fuzzyman)
Date: 14 Apr 2004 01:01:04 -0700
Subject: CGI Problems With Xitami
References: <8089854e.0404072356.7f33f440@posting.google.com>	<mailman.451.1081430027.20120.python-list@python.org>	<8089854e.0404090633.7c8541ea@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.501.1081559641.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<8089854e.0404130413.6dae0102@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <8089854e.0404132304.33c68820@posting.google.com>

If in doubt.... reinstall....

Simply uninstalling and re-installing Xitami solved the problem.
As far as *I* can see the settings the same as they were - but now it works....

Odd but good... :-)

Regards,


Fuzzy

http://www.voidspace.org.uk/atlantibots/pythonutils.html


From fredrik at pythonware.com  Tue Apr 20 02:28:54 2004
From: fredrik at pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 08:28:54 +0200
Subject: module not callable - why not?
References: <c56jph$rrk$05$1@news.t-online.com><c5tef0$5hf$1@news.service.uci.edu><7xsmf1fxd9.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com><8ef9bea6.0404180956.cd1a152@posting.google.com><c5ultg$ss9$1@panix2.panix.com>	<8ef9bea6.0404190908.4b130d57@posting.google.com><mailman.773.1082397637.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<8ef9bea6.0404191535.cd7f9e6@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <c62fuh$6nn$1@sea.gmane.org>

Hung Jung Lu wrote:

> > inside the module, it's spelled
> >
> >     name
> >
> > </F>
>
> Can't believe I have to reply to all these silly bursts. :)
>
> This is a frequently asked question, Fredrik. I don't make it up. Now,
> think again why newbies and oldies alike at times need to access
> variables by name strings. Next time, digest first before you post.

it's a common question from people who know certain other scripting languages
but not Python, and don't know how to use dictionaries and other data structures
to get the result they're after.  globals() is hardly ever the right answer.

frankly, are you sure *you* know Python well enough to write *Python* pro-
grams in Python?  given the things you complain about, I'm not so sure.

</F>






From andymac at bullseye.apana.org.au  Thu Apr  1 18:10:36 2004
From: andymac at bullseye.apana.org.au (Andrew MacIntyre)
Date: Fri, 2 Apr 2004 09:10:36 +1000 (EST)
Subject: Reliability of venster+ctypes on win32
In-Reply-To: <01df01c417f2$27883960$6600a8c0@YODA>
References: <8f198e47.0404010335.6045400e@posting.google.com>
	<01df01c417f2$27883960$6600a8c0@YODA>
Message-ID: <20040402090904.P50485@bullseye.apana.org.au>

On Thu, 1 Apr 2004, Dave Brueck wrote:

> Somesh wrote:
> > I downloaded and tried a small dialog-dll's application with
> > venster+ctypes+python 2.3
> > its working very well, but is it reliable to use in big projects ? or
> > part of big projects ?
>
> You'll have to make that determination yourself, but IMO they are both very
> stable. We started using them both in production applications sooner than the
> authors probably would have advised, but didn't encounter problems (we've
> certainly never had any crashes due to either library, for example).

Amen.

--
Andrew I MacIntyre                     "These thoughts are mine alone..."
E-mail: andymac at bullseye.apana.org.au  (pref) | Snail: PO Box 370
        andymac at pcug.org.au             (alt) |        Belconnen  ACT  2616
Web:    http://www.andymac.org/               |        Australia



From michael at foord.net  Tue Apr 13 08:13:28 2004
From: michael at foord.net (Fuzzyman)
Date: 13 Apr 2004 05:13:28 -0700
Subject: CGI Problems With Xitami
References: <8089854e.0404072356.7f33f440@posting.google.com>	<mailman.451.1081430027.20120.python-list@python.org>	<8089854e.0404090633.7c8541ea@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.501.1081559641.20120.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <8089854e.0404130413.6dae0102@posting.google.com>

Andrew MacIntyre <andymac at bullseye.apana.org.au> wrote in message news:<mailman.501.1081559641.20120.python-list at python.org>...
> On Sat, 9 Apr 2004, Fuzzyman wrote:
> 
> > Andrew MacIntyre <andymac at bullseye.apana.org.au> wrote in message news:<mailman.451.1081430027.20120.python-list at python.org>...
>  
> > > Are you using "python -u" when invoking your CGI script?  Unbuffered I/O
> > > saves lots of headaches with CGI, especially on Windows.
> >
> > Hmmm... I'm not, I'll try it.
> > I might have fun working out how with Xitami.... and then with
> > whatever server we have at work :-)
> 
> I vaguely recall that Xitami might honour the "#!" convention, so try
> heading your scripts with
> 
>   #!<path\to\>python -u

Hmm.. tried that.
It doesn't trip Xitami up - so I'm assuming it works :-)
On the other hand it doesn't help.

Weird - the same setup works at work... but not at home.... At work
POST behaves fine, whilst at home I have to switch it to using GET..
most frustrating. Obviously *something* is causing this - but I can't
track it down.

Regards,


Fuzzy

http://www.voidspace.org.uk/atlantibots/pythonutils.html


From premshree_python at yahoo.co.in  Wed Apr 14 05:22:35 2004
From: premshree_python at yahoo.co.in (=?iso-8859-1?q?Premshree=20Pillai?=)
Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2004 10:22:35 +0100 (BST)
Subject: pyAlbum.py is now PyAC
Message-ID: <20040414092235.39139.qmail@web8312.mail.in.yahoo.com>

Hello,

pyAlbum.py is now called PyAC - Python Album Creator.
The project has been moved to SourceForge. It's at
http://pyac.sourceforge.net

If you have created an album using pyAlbum.py (NOT
pyAlbum) or PyAC, and are interested in having your
album's link placed at the development website, drop a
line to pyalbum[AT]rediffmail[DOT]com

-Premshree Pillai

=====
-Premshree
[http://www.qiksearch.com/]

________________________________________________________________________
Yahoo! India Matrimony: Find your partner online. http://yahoo.shaadi.com/india-matrimony/



From lubowiecka at go2.pl  Mon Apr  5 07:08:35 2004
From: lubowiecka at go2.pl (Sylwia)
Date: 5 Apr 2004 04:08:35 -0700
Subject: python processes names
Message-ID: <f6554b84.0404050308.7980080@posting.google.com>

Hi!

How to make python programs show up by name is ps (e.g ps -e). By
default if  we have many different python processes running
simultaneously, then we can only see python python python for three
different python processes. I would much rather see
first_python_program_name.py, second_python_program_name.py and
third_python_program_name.py listed by ps. Is that possible without
downloading and installing any non-standard modules?

Thank you in advance,

Best wishes,

Sylwia


From huggiepython at graffiti.idv.tw  Tue Apr  6 02:15:06 2004
From: huggiepython at graffiti.idv.tw (Timothy Wu)
Date: Tue, 06 Apr 2004 14:15:06 +0800
Subject: A beginner's question on thread
Message-ID: <40724AEA.8060709@graffiti.idv.tw>

I'm writing a small utility that listens for socket connections, and 
also repond to user inputs via a text menu selection.

In order to respond to both the user and the incoming connections I 
figure I need to use thread.

I think I would use the main thread to handle the menu and spawn a 
thread which listens on a socket.

Now my question is, how do I terminate the server thread if user wants 
to exit the application? If the server just sit there and listen the 
thread would never terminate by itself. What kind of inter-thread 
communications are available and where would I find info/tutorial on that?

Timothy



From shalabh at cafepy.com  Fri Apr 23 04:23:51 2004
From: shalabh at cafepy.com (Shalabh Chaturvedi)
Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2004 01:23:51 -0700
Subject: Subclasses in Python
References: <b4a8ffb6.0404221855.7239bb82@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <c6ajku$96j$1@sea.gmane.org>

Thomas Philips wrote:

> I'm teaching myself programming using Python, and have a question
> about subclasses. My game has two classes, Player and Alien, with
> identical functions, and I want to make Player a base class and Alien
> a derived class. The two classes are described below

<code defining classes Player and Alient snipped, but op's descrition
follows>

> The two classes are almost identical, except that:
> 1. When a new player is instantiated or destroyed, Player.n is
> incremented/decremented, while when a new alien is instantiated,
> Alien.n is incremented/decremented.
> 2. When hit by an energy blast, the player and the alien have
> different thresholds below which they die.
> 
> How can I base the Alien's __init__(), __del__() and hit() methods on
> the Player's methods, while ensuring that the appropriate class
> variables are incremented/decremented when a new object is
> instantiated and that the appropriate threshold is used when the
> player/alien is hit by an energy bolt?
> 
> Thomas Philips

One easy solution is to use self.__class__.n and self.__class__.threshold
instead of explicit Player.n and Player.threshold. Then derive Alien from
Player and only keep the two class attributes in it. Get rid of all methods
in Alien.

If you haven't already guessed how this works: when you call any method on
an Alient object, self.__class__ will be Alien, and if you call a method on
a Player object, self.__class__ will be Player.

--
Shalabh




From jacek.generowicz at cern.ch  Fri Apr  2 06:53:59 2004
From: jacek.generowicz at cern.ch (Jacek Generowicz)
Date: 02 Apr 2004 13:53:59 +0200
Subject: Simple text markup (-> HTML)
References: <tyf3c7m1zic.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
	<406D3EAA.16466030@alcyone.com>
Message-ID: <tyfy8pezjc8.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>

Erik Max Francis <max at alcyone.com> writes:

> Jacek Generowicz wrote:
> 
> > I'm looking for something to help developers wirte documentation for
> > bits of software they are writing.
> 
> reStructredText.  Bigtime.

Way cool !

I am rather shocked that this (or its ancestors) has not registered on
my radar before now.

Thanks !


From newsgroups at jhrothjr.com  Sun Apr 11 15:51:03 2004
From: newsgroups at jhrothjr.com (John Roth)
Date: Sun, 11 Apr 2004 15:51:03 -0400
Subject: Python OS
References: <107j4eu6ffn2c68@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <107j8elr1m3tc65@news.supernews.com>

"A Evans" <ae> wrote in message news:107j4eu6ffn2c68 at corp.supernews.com...
> I have a question concerning the development of Python Based Operating
> System. You see I have had sort of a dream to develop an Open Source
> Operating System that would revolutionize the OS market and Since I
started
> using Python I have fallen in love with the language. Reading articles
here
> and there I have read that Python is a more secure language than C. I also
> read another article (I can't remember which) saying Python would not be
> able to develop an OS. I don't believe its true however. I am by no means
a
> programmer at this stage. But as I learn more and more I see Python as the
> Holy Grail of programming languages
>
> My questions would then be, is Python capable of creating an OS from
scratch
> and if so would it be plausible if possible

It depends on what you call "Python." The current Python
implementations (CPython, Jython and the so far incomplete
IronPython, PyPy and the unnamed version on Parrot)
all depend on an operating system and interpreter that provides
lots of services. (That's not quite true of PyPy, which is
well worth looking at.)

The central core of an operating system has to get down
and dirty with the hardware. Modern operating systems
are written in a very feature impoverished version of C
with occasional excursions into Assembler either for performance
or to get access to hardware that applications are prevented
from accessing.

You could undoubtedly create a language that would
compile efficiently and would still have many (if not all)
of the conveniences that Python provides, but it would
be a different language.

John Roth


>
> Cheers
>
> A python NewBie - Man I hate that term does anyone else

Likewise. I prefer novice. I consider Newbie to be patronizing.

JR.
>
> See Ya
>
>




From hungjunglu at yahoo.com  Mon Apr 19 19:35:39 2004
From: hungjunglu at yahoo.com (Hung Jung Lu)
Date: 19 Apr 2004 16:35:39 -0700
Subject: module not callable - why not?
References: <c56jph$rrk$05$1@news.t-online.com><c5tef0$5hf$1@news.service.uci.edu><7xsmf1fxd9.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com><8ef9bea6.0404180956.cd1a152@posting.google.com><c5ultg$ss9$1@panix2.panix.com>	<8ef9bea6.0404190908.4b130d57@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.773.1082397637.20120.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <8ef9bea6.0404191535.cd7f9e6@posting.google.com>

"Fredrik Lundh" <fredrik at pythonware.com> wrote in message news:<mailman.773.1082397637.20120.python-list at python.org>...
> Hung Jung Lu wrote:
> 
> > > That's not the only answer, and it's not the one I use:
> > >
> > >     import foo
> > >     getattr(foo, 'name')
> >
> > You can't do this when you are inside the module itself.
> 
> inside the module, it's spelled
> 
>     name
> 
> </F>

Can't believe I have to reply to all these silly bursts. :)

This is a frequently asked question, Fredrik. I don't make it up. Now,
think again why newbies and oldies alike at times need to access
variables by name strings. Next time, digest first before you post.
Don't disappoint me. :)

regards,

Hung Jung


From maxm at mxm.dk  Tue Apr 20 08:11:14 2004
From: maxm at mxm.dk (Max M)
Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 14:11:14 +0200
Subject: CamelCase versus wide_names (Prothon)
In-Reply-To: <40851128.8000400@mxm.dk>
References: <UHxfc.9323$dZ1.3740@fed1read04>	<6ee58e07.0404192141.2229efd6@posting.google.com>	<c62e05$6oraj$1@ID-99293.news.uni-berlin.de>	<i93hc.13733$dZ1.8818@fed1read04>
	<mailman.789.1082458674.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<40851128.8000400@mxm.dk>
Message-ID: <40851379$0$290$edfadb0f@dread12.news.tele.dk>

Max M wrote:

> Make . a normal letter.
> 
> And make _ have the function that . has in Python, so that _ and . sort 
> of switches meaning.
> 
> Anybody in hteir right mind can see that, that is a good idea:

Oh I forgot to include a good example:


def install.sub.skin(self, out, skin.folder):
     """Install a subskin"""

     skins.tool = get.tool.by.name(self, 'portal.skins')

     for skin in skins.tool_get.skin.selections():
         path = skins.tool_get.skin.path(skin)
         path = map(string_strip, string_split(path,','))
         if not skin.folder in path:
             try:
                 path_insert(path_index('custom')+1, skin.folder)
             except value.error:
                 path_append(skin.folder)
             path = string_join(path, ', ')
             skins.tool_add.skin.selection(skin, path)
             out_write('Subskin successfully installed into %s\n' % 
skin)
         else:
             out_write('*** Subskin was already installed into %s\n' % 
skin)


It is allmost freakish how hard that is to read.

On a more serious not though, what about a special notation for variables:

_this is a variable_ = 'Some string'
`Or this is a variable` = 'Some other string'

Is that to hard to read? I guess that the backtick is. It is certainly 
easier to type on my Danish keyboard.


regards Max M


From stevenbee at removethis.att.net  Sun Apr 25 13:23:13 2004
From: stevenbee at removethis.att.net (Steven Brent)
Date: Sun, 25 Apr 2004 13:23:13 -0400
Subject: List operator overloading snag
Message-ID: <8TCdnQn1OKieaRbdRWPC-w@speakeasy.net>

Dear Group:

I am a little perplexed by a basic example from the O'Reilly book, 2nd ed.,
which demonstrates overloading some builtin list operators by embedding
lists in a wrapper class.

Below is a snippet which shows the wrapper class and the overloaded
operator definition within (in this case, '__or__')

## BEGIN SNIPPET (from setwrapper.py)

class Set:
    def __init__(self, value = []):
        self.data = []
        self.concat(value)
    
    def union(self, other):
        res = self.data[:]
        for x in other:
            if not x in res:
                res.append(x)
        print 'using Set.__or__' #for debugging
        return Set(res)
   
    def __repr__(self):
        return 'Set: ' + `self.data` #for debugging

    def __or__(self, other):
        return self.union(other)

## END SNIPPET

The problem is that I can't seem to get my wrapped lists to use the
overloaded versions of the operators without calling the customize
instance method directly, as shown below:
>>> import setwrapper; from setwrapper import *

>>> S1 = Set(['s','p','a','m'])
>>> S2 = Set(['s','c','a','t'])

>>> print S1 or S2
Set: ['s', 'p', 'a', 'm'] # custom __repr__ used but still default
                          # __or__ behavior, returns first true operand

>>> print S1.__or__(S2)
using Set.__or__
Set: ['s', 'p', 'a', 'm', 'c', 't'] # now all the custom behaviors

This happens regardless of whether the module is imported into IDLE, or run
standalone. Obviously I'm missing something very basic namespace issue, and
I don't want to gloss over any bumps in my learning curve.

Many thanks.

-- 
**********************
www.emptydrum.com
...like a think tank
without the thinking
or the tank
**********************


From tundra at tundraware.com  Mon Apr 12 13:10:07 2004
From: tundra at tundraware.com (Tim Daneliuk)
Date: 12 Apr 2004 13:10:07 EDT
Subject: Parsing string array for differences
In-Reply-To: <7598e160.0404120856.217bc8d5@posting.google.com>
References: <7598e160.0404120856.217bc8d5@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <10vqk1-lcb1.ln1@eskimo.tundraware.com>

Ray Slakinski wrote:
> My below code doesn't do what I need it to do.  What I want is to
> capture the differences between two arrays of data into a new list. 
> So if list A has {Fred, Bob, Jim} and List B has {Jim, George, Fred} I
> want to capture in list C just {Fred, Jim}
> 
> y = 0        
> z = 0
> data = {}
> for element in listB:                
>    x = 0                
>    for element in listA:                        
>       if listA[x] != listB[y]:                                
>          listC[z] = listB[y]
>          z = z + 1                      
>       x = x +1                
> y = y + 1
> 
> Any and all help would be /greatly/ appreciated!
> 
> Ray

http://pydoc.org/2.3/sets.html

-- 
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Tim Daneliuk     tundra at tundraware.com
PGP Key:         http://www.tundraware.com/PGP/


From python at rcn.com  Mon Apr  5 02:49:56 2004
From: python at rcn.com (Raymond Hettinger)
Date: 4 Apr 2004 23:49:56 -0700
Subject: Python is faster than C
References: <406F0907.96F37EA1@tunes.org>	<5d83790c.0404032144.482787bd@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.325.1081086545.20120.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <5d83790c.0404042249.5ff4e354@posting.google.com>

[Jeff Epler]
> from pprint import *
> def install_hook():
>     def displayhook(v):
>         import __main__
>         if v is not None:
>             if isiterator(v):
>                 print "<%s object at 0x%8x:" % (
>                     type(v).__name__, id(v)),
>                 v, copy = itertools.tee(v)
>                 for elem in itertools.islice(copy, 3):
>                     print saferepr(elem),
>                 try:
>                     copy.next()
>                 except StopIteration:
>                     pass
>                 else:
>                     print '...',
>                 sys.stdout.softspace=0
>                 print ">" 
>             else:
>                 pprint(v)
>         __main__._ = v
> 
>     sys.displayhook = displayhook

This is very nice.

In my sketch, I used Py2.4's itertools.tee() to handle non-restartable
iterators.  For Py2.3, a good alternative is:

copy = list(itertools.islice(v, 3))
v = itertools.chain(copy, v)

Now, copy can be used in the display and "v" produces the same values
as the original iterator.


Cheers,

Raymond Hettinger


P.S.  If some experimentation shows your code to be useful at the
interactive prompt, please submit a patch on SF so it won't be lost.


From claird at lairds.com  Thu Apr  1 00:03:15 2004
From: claird at lairds.com (Cameron Laird)
Date: Thu, 01 Apr 2004 05:03:15 -0000
Subject: Python from the command line (was: Choosing Perl/Python for my
	particular niche)
References: <40652B0D.7C313F77@doe.carleton.ca>
	<406532F7.D56DC671@doe.carleton.ca>
	<406934a9$0$7564$afc38c87@news.easynet.co.uk>
	<4069F1FD.601C9079@doe.carleton.ca>
Message-ID: <106n8kj2t5n7m11@corp.supernews.com>

In article <4069F1FD.601C9079 at doe.carleton.ca>,
Fred Ma  <fma at doe.carleton.ca> wrote:
			.
			.
			.
>Perl/sed.  About invoking Perl as part of a simple command in a
>pipeline, I mean that one doesn't even have to write a script for it,
>similar to sed
>
>	Command1 | sed -e Expression1 -e Expression2 ... | Command_N
>
>This might also be possible in Python, in which case so much the better. 
>I'll find out (or someone might answer in a follow-up post).  Thanks
			.
			.
			.
  # python -c "print 3 + 5"
  8
-- 

Cameron Laird <claird at phaseit.net>
Business:  http://www.Phaseit.net


From vincent at visualtrans.de  Mon Apr  5 02:16:24 2004
From: vincent at visualtrans.de (vincent wehren)
Date: Mon, 05 Apr 2004 08:16:24 +0200
Subject: Why is there no PyInt_AsInt() ?
In-Reply-To: <c4qrls$2l99nd$1@ID-180326.news.uni-berlin.de>
References: <c4qrls$2l99nd$1@ID-180326.news.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <c4qtk7$mvk$1@news1.tilbu1.nb.home.nl>

Jon Perez wrote:
> ...and instead down-cast the result of PyInt_AsLong() when
> the PyObject was an integer in the first place??
Yes, but a Python integer is "not the same" as a C integer. Python 
integers are implemented using a C long.

Vincent Wehren


From alloydflanagan at comcast.net  Wed Apr  7 18:09:45 2004
From: alloydflanagan at comcast.net (A. Lloyd Flanagan)
Date: 7 Apr 2004 15:09:45 -0700
Subject: slightly OT: BUT NEEDs to be said
References: <4078daf265c69e9353e8af72542da703@dizum.com>
	<mailman.362.1081179965.20120.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <e838aa6e.0404071409.4c1af5cb@posting.google.com>

"Dave Brueck" <dave at pythonapocrypha.com> wrote in message news:<mailman.362.1081179965.20120.python-list at python.org>...
> I remember that one time the user filters were suspected by some outsiders, and
> Guido privately threatened to introduce mandatory curly braces around code
> blocks if we as a group didn't convince people "on the outside" that the
> filters didn't exist - hence the big conditional operator debate of '03. We
> actually got assigned sides in that debate - didn't even get to pick them
> ourselves.
> 

OK, Dave, which side am I supposed to take on this one?  I seem to
have missed the memo...


From jcarlson at uci.edu  Sat Apr 10 16:19:53 2004
From: jcarlson at uci.edu (Josiah Carlson)
Date: Sat, 10 Apr 2004 13:19:53 -0700
Subject: Code blocks and top posting
In-Reply-To: <c59hfm$gru$1@news.service.uci.edu>
References: <slrnc7fbrc.1ek.ramen@lackingtalent.com>
	<8ef9bea6.0404100720.65ffd2c9@posting.google.com>
	<slrnc7g909.1ek.ramen@lackingtalent.com>
	<c59hfm$gru$1@news.service.uci.edu>
Message-ID: <c59l3m$k08$2@news.service.uci.edu>

Clarification of my post necessary.

> I understand your point, however...
> 
>     >>> def async_chain():
>     ...     def do_step_1():
>     ...         print 'Step 1.'
>     ...         after_idle(do_step_2)
>     ...     def do_step_2():
>     ...         print 'Step 2.'
>     ...         after_idle(do_step_3)
>     ...     def do_step_3():
>     ...         print 'Step 3.'
>     ...     after_idle(do_step_1)
>     ...
>     >>> def after_idle(funct):
>     ...     funct()
>     ...
>     >>> async_chain()
>     Step 1.
>     Step 2.
>     Step 3.

I should clarify.  The above works, but the below...

> And what you seem to want...
> 
>     if condition:
>         funct()
> 
>     def funct():
>         #body
> 
> .... is not available in any modern programming language.  It is also 
> not possible to handle syntactically in the Python interactive shell.

Is not available.

  - Josiah



From goodger at python.org  Thu Apr 15 08:42:42 2004
From: goodger at python.org (David Goodger)
Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2004 08:42:42 -0400
Subject: Is this an OK design?
In-Reply-To: <Vhpfc.240$V02.92192@news.uswest.net>
References: <Vhpfc.240$V02.92192@news.uswest.net>
Message-ID: <407E8342.3000900@python.org>

urnerk at qwest.net wrote:
> ---- pv1.py ----
> 
>   class P(object):
>      def __init__(self, amap)
>          self.amap = amap
>          self.P = self.__class__ # <-- store type of instance
> 
> --- pv2.py ---
> 
>   import pv1
>   class P(pv1.P):
> 
>     def __invert__(self):
>        # newmap = inverted self.amap
>        return self.P(newmap)  # <--- class is now object attribute
...
> What I'd like to know is:  is my solution perverse or Pythonic? 
> Is there a better way?

Whenever I've had to do the same thing, I'd just say:

          return self.__class__(newmap)

Or make a specialized method, like:

      def new(self, *args):
          return self.__class__(*args)

In other words, say it directly without the indirection of a class
attribute.

Unless, of course, you want to modify the attribute for some
reason.  Even then, I'd change the name to be more
self-documenting.

-- David Goodger




From python at holdenweb.com  Wed Apr 14 22:16:45 2004
From: python at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2004 22:16:45 -0400
Subject: Does Python compete with Java?
In-Reply-To: <mailman.588.1081879006.20120.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.588.1081879006.20120.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <407DF08D.90407@holdenweb.com>

Jakub Fast wrote:

> 
> Thanks for a quick reply!
> 
>> "LISP is over there ==>"
>>
>> Saying, in effect, that it isn't Pythonic.
> 
> 
> Ok, maybe i'm asking for it :), but -- why?
> 
> [i am willing to cease-and-desist asking any further if this is not a
> welcome topic (like: we've discussed it fifty times by now, get a grip)]
> 
Well, we are deep into the philosophical meaning of "pythonicity" here. 
If you haven't yet typed "import this" into an interactive interpreter 
session you should do so, but pythonicity is a little like the pattern 
gang's "quality without a name".

It has been discussed, so a determined enough Googling will get you the 
details. I will confine myself to adding only that

     a) Python is intended to be easy to learn, and
     b) Any language construct that requires the lexical
	analyzer to be dynamically modified certainly will
	prove confusing to newcomers.

The spirit of your contribution is entirely Pythonic, it's just that 
"practicality beats purity", and your ideas are a little impractical for 
a dynamic language like Python (remember, there's little distinction 
between "compile time" and "run time"). Try to treat these limitations 
as small challenges ;-)

regards
  Steve






From claird at lairds.com  Sat Apr  3 19:37:37 2004
From: claird at lairds.com (Cameron Laird)
Date: Sun, 04 Apr 2004 00:37:37 -0000
Subject: emergent/swarm/evolutionary systems etc
References: <c4aeq8$92a$1@hercules.btinternet.com>
	<c4btjr$8il$1@titan.btinternet.com>
Message-ID: <106um6hcr363u14@corp.supernews.com>

In article <c4btjr$8il$1 at titan.btinternet.com>,
Peter MacKenzie <peter9547 at btinternet.com> wrote:
>(Hmm, this might appear as a double posting, but I don't think my last one
>made it through.)
>
>Thanks, but.
>
>("One approach to discussing and comparing AI
>problem solving strategies is to categorize them using the
>terms ''strong'' and ''weak'' methods. Generally, a weak
			.
		[much more]
			.
			.
You might like "The Outsider's Guide to Artificial Intelligence"
<URL: http://robotwisdom.com/ai/index.html >.
-- 

Cameron Laird <claird at phaseit.net>
Business:  http://www.Phaseit.net


From me at privacy.net  Wed Apr 21 04:31:40 2004
From: me at privacy.net (Duncan Booth)
Date: 21 Apr 2004 08:31:40 GMT
Subject: Generator inside a class prevent __del__ ??
References: <4085BA96.651D2E4A@free.fr> <200420041800310664%mday@apple.com>
	<kNKdnYsIEuHbdRjdRVn-uA@adelphia.com>
Message-ID: <Xns94D260E9735C4duncanrcpcouk@127.0.0.1>

Rob Nikander <rnikaREMOVEnder at adelphia.net> wrote in 
news:kNKdnYsIEuHbdRjdRVn-uA at adelphia.com:

> I checked out the documentation for that gc.garbage list and it says 
> that the collector can't free objects in cycles if the cyles have 
> objects that have __del__ methods.  So it puts them in this list.
> 
> I wonder what other garbage collectors do in this situation?  Anyone 
> know?  Java?
> 

Most garbage collectors will do peculiar things if you have destructors or 
finalizers in the objects. The problem is that if two objects with 
finalizers reference each other there is no correct order to release the 
objects that will guarantee that the other object still exists, so the 
system either has to choose an arbitrary order, or refuse to call the 
finalizers.

The .Net garbage collector is typical. Objects may have finalizers, and 
these finalizers are called as part of the garbage collection. The system 
guarantees that any finalizer is called exactly 0 or more times --- usually 
it is called once when the object is garbage collected, but if the object 
is never collected it may not be called at all, and if the object 
resurrects itself (e.g. during the finalizer it assigns itself to a global 
variable) the finalizer could be called more than once.

A separate thread pool is used for finalizers, so your finalizer could be 
called while a user thread is executing a method on the object, and two 
objects which refer to each other could have their finalizers called in any 
order, or even simultaneously on separate threads. Effectively, this makes 
finalizers useless in all but the most obscure situations.

When resources need to be released you should try to do it explicitly. In 
.Net this is handled by the Dispose() method, and the finalizer can then 
either try calling Dispose() if it has not yet been called, or could try 
logging an error although even that may be problematic from a finalizer.


From peter9547 at btinternet.com  Fri Apr  2 11:58:32 2004
From: peter9547 at btinternet.com (Peter MacKenzie)
Date: Fri, 2 Apr 2004 16:58:32 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: emergent/swarm/evolutionary systems etc
References: <c4aeq8$92a$1@hercules.btinternet.com>
	<c4btjr$8il$1@titan.btinternet.com>
	<c4ccs2$l9j$1@news.service.uci.edu>
	<c4hjp4$dg6$1@sparta.btinternet.com>
	<c4ibr0$ngm$1@news.service.uci.edu>
	<c4jehj$6eh$1@titan.btinternet.com>
	<b58bdd20aeb4b31cdcfc2a4fc1054a3a@news.teranews.com>
Message-ID: <c4k63o$bss$1@hercules.btinternet.com>

Spreadsheets do seem to be an attractive option, but the benefits are not
without their detractors:

+Easy to work with
+Require no/limited skill acquisition
+Flexible

-Cells can only hold single items of data (which can be worked around by
using arrays of cells to hold multiple attributes for each location)
-Require no/limited skill acquisition (being familiar and honest with my own
psychological composition, I know that the only way I'm likely to develop a
fair degree of programming competence is if there's a driving pressure to do
so.  It's something I'd like to learn, and this gives me the excuse/leverage
to do so.)

Unknowns:  Time series graphical output would be necessary, even if it's
very primitive.  Do you know if the spreadsheet could be set up in such a
way that cells would change colour depending on their values, or if the
graph making facilities would be able to create reasonable representations
of said values so that a series of graphs would be capable of showing up
phenomena with fluidic (wavelike, turbulent, etc) characteristics?

I'm afraid the temptation to take the hard route my prove too great
(psychological paradoxes: I always feel good about feeling so terrible about
these things after I've passed the point of no return in the undertaking,
and the enormity of the task at hand sinks in - it's a whole adrenalin
thing), but I'd still like to make a comprehensive assessment of my options
before I commit to anything.




From rawbobb at hotmail.com  Mon Apr 12 11:13:07 2004
From: rawbobb at hotmail.com (bobb)
Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2004 15:13:07 GMT
Subject: connect with MySQL question
References: <mailman.477.1081484212.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<8Owec.16842$QQ6.8203@nwrdny02.gnilink.net>
Message-ID: <7myec.41100$1y1.9195@nwrdny03.gnilink.net>

perhaps it was on the mailing.database.mysql group, though :)

"bobb" <rawbobb at hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:8Owec.16842$QQ6.8203 at nwrdny02.gnilink.net...
> This was just recently asked, I believe.
> google for mysql client.
>
> <pengz1 at netzero.com> wrote in message
> news:mailman.477.1081484212.20120.python-list at python.org...
> >
> > Hi! All
> > I download MySQL to Python interface software and get MySQLdb module etc
> installed. But when I start mysqld on XP from c:\mysql\bin (all in
windows)
> and use following code to connect MySQL it fails
> >
> > # Database access
> > import MySQLdb
> >
>
con=MySQLdb.connect(host="127.0.0.1",port=3306,user="root",passwd="mypasswd"
> ,db="smalldb")
> > Cursor=con.cursor()
> > sql_cmd="select * from customers"
> > Cursor.execute(sql_cmd)
> > results=Cursor.fetachall()
> > con.close()
> >
> >
> > It asked for client upgrade. What that mean? MySQL is 4.0
> > Anyone can help?
> > Thanks in advance.
> >
> > Regards
> > Zhiyong
> >
> > ________________________________________________________________
> > The best thing to hit the Internet in years - NetZero HiSpeed!
> > Surf the Web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER!
> > Only $14.95/ month -visit www.netzero.com to sign up today!
> >
>
>




From mcfletch at rogers.com  Thu Apr 15 21:12:34 2004
From: mcfletch at rogers.com (Mike C. Fletcher)
Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2004 21:12:34 -0400
Subject: Simple pyhon-based CMS
In-Reply-To: <c5n93s$p5g$1@news-reader4.wanadoo.fr>
References: <9396ba6f.0404131817.1219c695@posting.google.com>
	<c5n93s$p5g$1@news-reader4.wanadoo.fr>
Message-ID: <407F3302.5080604@rogers.com>

I use CoreBlog (http://coreblog.org/) for my blog 
(http://zope.vex.net/~mcfletch/plumbing/), it's very easy to use.  Just 
a product sitting in Zope, no CMS facilities (i.e. no workflow 
mechanisms) that I've seen, but then you probably wouldn't want that for 
something simple and blog-like.

Have fun,
Mike

>"Stewart Midwinter" <stewart at midwinter.ca> wrote in message
>news:9396ba6f.0404131817.1219c695 at posting.google.com...
>  
>
>>I'm looking for a simple python-based CMS (content management system),
>>maybe with some blog-like features, ability to add articles - nothing
>>too fancy.  Do you have any suggestions?
>>
>>I've looked at Zope / Plone: very easy to install using the rpm I
>>found.  But it's obviously quite complex and powerful, which is no
>>doubt of benefit on a site that has many users. But I'm just one
>>person.  All I want is a pythonic replacement for my current tool,
>>postNuke.
>>    
>>
...

_______________________________________
  Mike C. Fletcher
  Designer, VR Plumber, Coder
  http://members.rogers.com/mcfletch/





From tor.iver.wilhelmsen at broadpark.no  Sat Apr 24 16:18:27 2004
From: tor.iver.wilhelmsen at broadpark.no (Tor Iver Wilhelmsen)
Date: 24 Apr 2004 22:18:27 +0200
Subject: AOP use cases
References: <84fc4588.0404140106.3fa0c55@posting.google.com>
	<slrnc7q1ss.1aa.alf@largo.fayauffre.org>
	<cb035744.0404141130.170f51c4@posting.google.com>
	<slrnc7sgat.vp.alf@largo.fayauffre.org>
	<cb035744.0404160442.2f0b1661@posting.google.com>
	<0pydnSB4WYuieuLdRVn-hQ@powergate.ca> <uekqdjn7k.fsf@broadpark.no>
Message-ID: <uy8oli0z0.fsf@broadpark.no>

Tor Iver Wilhelmsen <tor.iver.wilhelmsen at broadpark.no> writes:

> - Implementing Singleton as an aspect which states that calling

Argh, I meant Immutable, og course.


From heikki_salo at nobulkmailplease.sci.fi  Mon Apr 26 16:03:11 2004
From: heikki_salo at nobulkmailplease.sci.fi (Heikki Salo)
Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2004 23:03:11 +0300
Subject: C api: how to create objects?
Message-ID: <ffojc.224$H%3.153@reader1.news.jippii.net>

I bumbed into a seemingly trivial problem: in my C extension I want to
create some very basic Python objects (no methods or attributes) and then
add all the needed attributes according to given information.

How can I do this!? I have tried to make new instances from PyObject with
PyObject_New() and with some other functions as well, but the only result is
that the application comes crashing down. I guess that I am doing something
very wrong.

This Python-code explains what I am trying to do:

class Generic:
    pass

data = getData()
new_generic = Generic()

if "color" in data:
    new_generic.color_value = data["color"]
elif "position" in data:
    ...





From jcarlson at uci.edu  Sat Apr 10 15:35:43 2004
From: jcarlson at uci.edu (Josiah Carlson)
Date: Sat, 10 Apr 2004 12:35:43 -0700
Subject: maximum length of a list & tuple
In-Reply-To: <c55okv$2o3eql$1@ID-202776.news.uni-berlin.de>
References: <c54lq3$2pe1sf$1@ID-202776.news.uni-berlin.de>
	<bvednZaKK7OybejdRVn-iQ@centurytel.net>
	<c55okv$2o3eql$1@ID-202776.news.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <c59igu$hto$1@news.service.uci.edu>

> I just would like to know if there is any limit to a list or tuple.

It depends on how much memory you have.

Run the following and the last thing it prints out is your limit...

     c = 1
     while c < 2**32:
         try:
             d = [1]*c
             print c
             c *= 2
         except:
             break


  - Josiah


From robin at alldunn.NOSPAM.com  Thu Apr  1 17:46:33 2004
From: robin at alldunn.NOSPAM.com (Robin Dunn)
Date: Thu, 01 Apr 2004 14:46:33 -0800
Subject: Don't understand wxPython event handling
In-Reply-To: <c4h4gv$1g5$1@news.mch.sbs.de>
References: <c4h08g$fok$1@news.mch.sbs.de> <c4h4gv$1g5$1@news.mch.sbs.de>
Message-ID: <eZ0bc.544$P45.98@fe07.usenetserver.com>

Robert wrote:
> I also have anouther question:
> 
> which is the better way to register to events:
> eventManager.Register(self.OnPageDone,EVT_PAGE_DONE,self.pageContainer)
> 
> or
> 
> EVT_PAGE_DONE(self, self.OnPageDone)
> 
> 

Short answer: It depends.

Long answer:  The eventManager sits on top of a Publish/Subscribe 
framework (Observer design pattern) so it is useful if you want to have 
lots of handlers for a specific event and/or if you want your handlers 
to be loosly coupled with the windows where the event was generated.  If 
you put your handlers in the same class as the window that generated the 
event (or a parent window) then using the simpler form is just fine.

-- 
Robin Dunn
Software Craftsman
http://wxPython.org  Java give you jitters?  Relax with wxPython!



From sridharinfinity at yahoo.com  Tue Apr  6 05:04:19 2004
From: sridharinfinity at yahoo.com (Sridhar R)
Date: 6 Apr 2004 02:04:19 -0700
Subject: GUI Frameworks in Python?
References: <mailman.102.1080629227.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<930ba99a.0404030246.786455f5@posting.google.com>
	<8ef9bea6.0404041009.26ae2683@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <930ba99a.0404060104.fdf2605@posting.google.com>

hungjunglu at yahoo.com (Hung Jung Lu) wrote in message news:<8ef9bea6.0404041009.26ae2683 at posting.google.com>...
> sridharinfinity at yahoo.com (Sridhar R) wrote in message news:<930ba99a.0404030246.786455f5 at posting.google.com>...
> > 
> > Man, you better use PyGTK (http://pygtk.org). It's portable (See pygtk
> > faq for windows port). It's neet (API).
> > Try also `glade`, `libglade`.
> > http://glade.gnome.org , I think?
> 
> Can someone outline some differences/advantages of PyGTK vs. wxPython?

  Sure.

> 
> A first look at PyGTK shows me a more Unix-like look-and-feel. On the
> other hand, wxPython on Windows does look very much like any other
> Windows applications.

  Wrong.  GTK apps do look with native look and feel.  For Windows,
look at the screenshots from the wimp project

http://gtk-wimp.sourceforge.net

  I am sure about Mac too, as I have seen screenshots before (probably
linked from GTK homepage)

[You may better download download pygtk from windows from the link
given the pygtk faq page]

> 
> Is the event handling in PyGTK cleaner/better than wxPython? Does

  Of course.  Have looked at libglade ( is availble as glade module in
pygtk).  You can even write a small function to autoconnect functions
to events.  Say you can write function in a format like
  def on_button1__clicked(self,button):
      "This function is called when button1 emits 'clicked' signal"

  ... stilll many more functions like this ...

  and you can even write your own function that autoconnects functions
with their object/events.

  Instrospection in Event Handling!

> PyGTK have more widgets? 

   Sure.  Also have a look at the GtkExtra (also pygtkextra) project.
Writing new widgets is also pretty neat in PyGTK.

> e FAQ of PyGTK does not have a comparison
> section regarding other GUI toolkits, I think it would be useful if

  If not, you can try them yourself

> one were included. (If you go to wxPython's mainpage, you read "Why
> the hell hasn't wxPython become the standard GUI for Python yet?", and
> also "BTW, great work! I've definitively switched from Tk. I work on
> Win32, anybody who works on Win32 should switch!". Comments like that.
> Readers can immediately know the relationship to Tk, and wxPython's
> platform friendliness for Win32.) 

  But, those people wouldn't have used PyGTK (or GTK) before.   Don't
get a mind-shift just bcoz of some famous personality has said it. 
Usually I will try out the possiblities and then choose from the
domain.

> Given the lack of comparison, I
> would guess that GTK is unix-friendly, since Unix people usually would
> mention little or nothing about Windows. :) 

  As I said before, look at the screenshots. Or see this,
http://gtk-wimp.sourceforge.net/screenshots/

Gimp in WinXP
http://gtk-wimp.sourceforge.net/screenshots/gfx/gimp-winxp.png

> Continuing with my guess:
> are there any caveats for using PyGTK for Windows programmers?

  PyGTK apps were little slow in Windows.  But since the Wimp theme
(http://gtk-wimp.sourceforge.net) uses native win32 api calls to draw
widgets it should be pretty fair when compared to normal win32 apps.

  Also try the tutorial at pygtk site

  Also see http://developer.gnome.org
  And very important try Glade, the GUI builder which generates XML
files which can be given to the `glade` module of pygtk to build GUI
dynamically.

> 
> ---------------------------
> 
> Given my observations, is it fair to say:
> 
> (a) wxPython is widely used for Windows Python programmers, and

     May be.  But you can't say that as the best, without looking at
other toolkits.  I found PyGTK great.

> (b) PyGTK is widely used for Unix Python programmers?

    GTK is widely used in the UNIX world!  That's true.

> regards,
> 
> Hung Jung

   Happy programming.


From lbates at swamisoft.com  Thu Apr  1 18:46:12 2004
From: lbates at swamisoft.com (Larry Bates)
Date: Thu, 1 Apr 2004 17:46:12 -0600
Subject: Method for providing a trail period on a program
Message-ID: <L8idnY07QbRfNPHdRVn-hw@comcast.com>

I'm searching for a good way to provide a "trail
period" (something like 90 days) for a commercial
application that I'm writing.  I'd like something
that can easily stop working 90 days after
installation.  Can anyone point me to something
that exists already?

Thanks in advance,
Larry Bates
Syscon, Inc.




From fredrik at pythonware.com  Tue Apr 20 11:41:04 2004
From: fredrik at pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 17:41:04 +0200
Subject: Pygame book
References: <vA8hc.2788$gH6.118@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <c63g9q$mmt$1@sea.gmane.org>

Lucas Raab wrote:

> I was at the bookstore the other day and I noticed a book that dealt with
> making games with Pygame. As I recall the book title was "Game Programming
> with Python." I have an interest in making games, so I was wondering if any
> of you have this book and if you do, could you please give me a nice
> overview and whether I should buy the book or not.

here's a very brief review (or rather, a "first impressions"):

    http://dev.r.tucows.com/blog/_archives/2004/4/19/36769.html

</F>






From franck.lepoutre at caramail.com  Thu Apr  8 03:17:02 2004
From: franck.lepoutre at caramail.com (francois lepoutre)
Date: Thu, 8 Apr 2004 09:17:02 +0200
Subject: why is python better than eg. smalltalk?? no one has any solid
	arguments! you should all go to church with all that religious talk!
References: <20031028061245.12451.00000133@mb-m01.aol.com>
	<mailman.237.1067515722.702.python-list@python.org>
	<opr53783cbmyya52@news.kadnet.dom>
Message-ID: <4074f954$0$5802$79c14f64@nan-newsreader-02.noos.net>

> Maybe what people like is all the extra software which has
> been and is being written for python, which you do not have in smalltalk?
> or what is it?

Pleasantly surprised to find a smalltalk user
here. Smart people:)

My .0002 cents on python success:

1989 - I spent a couple of intellectually rewarding
weeks  (holiday ones ...)  with the great Park's
books  and a version of smalltalk:)

Was no computer science by education, just
basically a professional and a geek looking
for a practical tool to solve problems.

Tried to develop something useful. Was unable
to do so. The MVC model broke my brain.
But I discovered object orientation. It was a
great, unique and tasty experience.

2001 - my IIS module (an ISAPI-based servlet)
sometimes breaks. Will never know why...
Needed something a stable and simple way out
of this nightmare.

Enters python, no training, no book, just a couple
of hours reading online and off we go. I spat out
the code code for this reasonably complex app
in a couple of days, forgetting i was coding an
alien syntax. But was it alien?

Apache got in the way, sql engines as well, html
and javascript syntax too. Python never did.
Last time it happened was with visicalc back in
the beginning of the eighties...

My inner feeling is that python is the Esperanto,
not the Latin, of computer languages. Cleaner,
leaner, simpler.

If you can talk a few computer languages, you're
fluent in python as well.  Ain't no religious matter
here. Just a compelling and enduring advantage.

By the way:

http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&selm=3A2DD2CA.14A5D7E2%40engcorp.com&prev=/groups%3Fq%3Dpython%2520%2522van%2520rossum%2522%2520esperanto%26hl%3Den%26lr%3D%26ie%3DUTF-8%26oe%3DUTF-8%26sa%3DN%26tab%3Dwg





From colin.blackburn at durham.ac.uk  Wed Apr  7 04:34:49 2004
From: colin.blackburn at durham.ac.uk (Colin Blackburn)
Date: Wed, 07 Apr 2004 09:34:49 +0100
Subject: design by contract versus doctest
References: <407174ea$0$5066$4d4ebb8e@news.nl.uu.net>
	<4072977b$0$1699$afc38c87@news.easynet.co.uk>
	<opr51bkaaeyxrafp@nntphost.dur.ac.uk>
	<4072a7d3$0$23314$afc38c87@news.easynet.co.uk>
	<opr51ffat9yxrafp@nntphost.dur.ac.uk>
	<4072c7f0$0$23294$afc38c87@news.easynet.co.uk>
Message-ID: <opr52vgbv0yxrafp@nntphost.dur.ac.uk>

On Tue, 06 Apr 2004 16:08:30 +0100, Peter Hickman <peter at semantico.com>  
wrote:

> Colin Blackburn wrote:
>> Aku is correct, no checks are (necessarily) made by the function in   
>> installed code. It is the caller's responsibility to satisfy the   
>> pre-conditions.
>
> True but the caller does not check the pre-conditions, that is done in  
> the called. The called does not trust the caller to get things right,  
> hence the contract.

You have DbC completely wrong. The contract is there to be trusted. As far  
as I can tell you are seeing what looks like a parameter check at the  
start of a method and assuming that that is a defensive check against the  
caller providing incorrect parameters. That is not what the preconditions  
are.

The preconditions (and other constraints) were developed early in the  
design process. In fact, they guided the design process.

The preconditions are ultimately coded (in Eiffel) but they are not part  
of the implementation of the method. They are not there to check for  
errors in production code. They are there to specify the contract, to  
specify what the caller must provide for the outcome to be guaranteed.

They form part of the documentation whereas the implementation code  
(following do in Eiffel) does not. Writers of calling code can examine the  
pre and post-condition to know what they must do and what they can expect  
if the do things right.

In fact some pre-conditions cannot be expressed computationally, there are  
put in as comments, and so cannot be checked by the called method.

It is entirely the responsibility of the caller to check that the  
preconditions are satisfied, by providing correct parameters, say. It  
might do this explicitely, or implicitely but it is the caller that must  
satisfy those conditions. The called routine has no responsibility to  
check the preconditions, in fact it has every reason to expect those  
preconditions to be satisfied by the caller because that *is* the contract.

Colin
--


From jbperez808 at wahoo.com  Sun Apr 11 19:59:34 2004
From: jbperez808 at wahoo.com (Jon Perez)
Date: 11 Apr 2004 23:59:34 GMT
Subject: why is python better than eg. smalltalk?? no one has any solid
	arguments! you should all go to church with all that religious talk!
References: <mailman.440.1081414295.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<c59lvb$mtm$1@nemesis.news.tpi.pl> <c5abbm$ko8$1@panix2.panix.com>
	<roy-5C8DA0.23052910042004@reader1.panix.com>
	<c5alj7$afu$1@panix2.panix.com>
Message-ID: <c5cm53$8g5v$1@ID-180326.news.uni-berlin.de>

Aahz wrote:

> Funny that two people made the same guess, when y'all could have gotten
> the correct answer by going to my personal web page.  ;-)
> 
> http://rule6.info/

Whew...!  Hail and well met, friend.  :-D


From has.temp2 at virgin.net  Wed Apr 28 14:50:52 2004
From: has.temp2 at virgin.net (has)
Date: 28 Apr 2004 11:50:52 -0700
Subject: prototypes in Python [was: what is good in Prothon]
References: <95aa1afa.0404280120.30176ca9@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <69cbbef2.0404281050.4dc3380e@posting.google.com>

michele.simionato at poste.it (Michele Simionato) wrote in message news:<95aa1afa.0404280120.30176ca9 at posting.google.com>...
> So far, I have not installed Prothon, nor I have experience with Io, Self
> or other prototype-based languages. Still, from the discussion on the 
> mailing list, I have got the strong impression that you do not actually
> need to fork Python in order to implement prototypes. It seems to me
> that Python metaclasses + descriptors are more than powerful enough to 
> implementing prototypes in pure Python.

"Metaclasses" and "prototypes"... <ouch> Now there's two words that
should NEVER appear in the same sentence (or even on the same planet,
for that matter). Metaclasses may be Manna for complexity junkies, but
they're nothing but a viciously bad joke imposed by those who ought to
have known better and perpetuated by those who never will.

One of the great advantages of proto-OO is it shows up metaclasses for
the ludicrous code masturbation they are. As to why they're still
here, lingering like the stench of long-dead rat from under the floor
when they should've been shitcanned years ago... well, draw your own
conclusions. (Two words of my own: "politics" and "religion".)

[BTW, this is a totally generic rant; please don't think it was meant
personally! It's just that, well... if there's two words guaranteed to
push ALL my wrong buttons, those two are it.<g> Anyway, <Rant Off> -
and let's get back to our scheduled program...]

--

As far as doing proto-OOP in Python is concerned, you can, but it'd be
a bit like doing OOP [of any flavour] in C. i.e. Not much fun. You
basically have to roll your own structures and runtime support, and
provide syntactic sugar via some kind of pre-processor or compiler
extension if you want it to be halfway decent for users to code in.

Here's a very simple, incomplete and very naive example to give you an
idea of how you might start attacking it:

#############################

class _DelegateStub:
    """Terminates the delegate chain."""
	
    delegate = None
    copy = staticmethod(lambda:_DelegateStub)


class Object:
    """This class defines the generic proto-OO object 'type' used to
create all objects."""
	
    delegate = None # kludge
    _dict = None # kludge
	
    def __init__(self):
        self.delegate = _DelegateStub
        self._dict = {}
	
    def __getattr__(self, name):
        if self._dict.has_key(name):
            return self._dict[name]
        else:
            return getattr(self.delegate, name)
	
    def __setattr__(self, name, value):
        if name in ['delegate', '_dict']:
            self.__dict__[name] = value
        else:
            self._dict[name] = value

    def copy(self):
        """Clone this object."""
        new = Object()
        new.delegate = self.delegate.copy()
        new._dict = self._dict.copy()
        return new


# Creating a new object from scratch:

# Define object 'foo'
foo = Object()
foo.a = 3
foo.b = 3
foo.multiply = lambda target:target.a*target.b


# Do stuff with object (note: due to lack of runtime magic, user  
# must pass the target object to an object's 'method' themselves):

print foo.a, foo.b # --> 3 3
print foo.multiply(foo) # --> 9


# Creating a new object by cloning an existing one:

# Create object 'bar' by duplicating object 'foo'
bar = foo.copy()

print bar.multiply(bar) # --> 9

# Object 'bar' can be modified at will:

bar.a = -5
bar.c = 'hello world'

print bar.c # --> 'hello world'

print foo.multiply(foo) # --> 9
print bar.multiply(bar) # --> -15


# Behavioural composition through delegation:

# Create object 'zib' containing method 'power' with 'bar' as its
delegate
zib = Object()
zib.power = lambda target:target.a**target.b
zib.delegate = bar

print zib.c # --> 'hello world'
print zib.power(zib) # --> -125

#############################

Obviously, implementing a complete proto-OO system in and atop
Python's native class-OO system is going to be both tedious to use
(due to lack of syntactic sugar) and slow to execute (as it's all
interpreted Python code). Which is why it makes sense to start from
scratch as Mark is doing, or at least fork an existing language and
seriously strip down and rebuild it (which is a thought that's
previously crossed my own mind, though I lack the time, patience and C
skills to tacke such a project myself).


From kylotan at hotmail.com  Tue Apr 13 22:57:55 2004
From: kylotan at hotmail.com (Kylotan)
Date: 13 Apr 2004 19:57:55 -0700
Subject: Simple discussion of python cgi approaches?
References: <153fa67.0404121727.45b23c30@posting.google.com>
	<UZSec.630$2e6.71@lakeread01>
Message-ID: <153fa67.0404131857.7956595e@posting.google.com>

Steve Holden <python at holdenweb.com> wrote in message news:<UZSec.630$2e6.71 at lakeread01>...
> Kylotan wrote:
> 
> > I'm particularly confused by a few people advocating things like
> > Xitami + LRWP for being very simple, yet it can't possibly be simpler
> > than just dropping a cgi script into a directory, as I do with Apache,
> > and the docs on LRWP
> > (http://www.imatix.com/html/xitami/index12.htm#TOC114) make it look
> > like I'd have to do significant rewriting of the scripts. It describes
> > itself as being like FastCGI which, if true, doesn't exactly endear
> > FastCGI to me either.
> > 
> Well, you said you are looking for "alternatives or optimaizations", so 
> it would appear that you feel you are approaching the limits of your 
> simple approach. It's a very unsual solution that will be simpler, 
> faster and cheaper than the "obvious" one, though such solutions aren't 
> unheard of, even in the web world.

I know. I guess I am just spoiled by the simplicity of using things
like Psyco
that I sometimes forget that not everything comes for free!

> mod_python [...]
> 
> The intergration is very tight, and you can write Apache handlers of all 
> kinds in Python. I have experimented myself with writing request 
> handlers, with results briefly reported at PyCON this year. It's a good 
> general-purpose approach for uni-processor solutions.

Yet I'm guessing it requires a significant amount of special-case code
to
use its own API? Looking at the manual it seems non-trivial to get it
to work with scripts that were originally written to consume stdin and
emit to stdout.

> Clearly anything that has performance benefits over CGI is likely to be 
> a little more difficult to get running but believe me, the extra effort 
> isn't that great when you consider the rewards.

The main problem I face is that I don't know what platform my scripts
will
eventually run on. I may not have the ability to install extra
software so I
need to keep my scripts close to the CGI standard. That is, one file
per script,
using the cgi module for form processing and print for output. I don't
mind
having to redirect stdout or call these scripts indirectly instead of
via
their __main__ functions, but writing to specific APIs (beyond a small
wrapper
layer, of course) is not an option at the moment.

So I'm hoping for simple solutions that will involve no more than a
few changes
to each script, whereas most of the solutions that seem to be
available require
me to use their own request objects, or to treat pages as callable
functions within an overall page as mod_python seems to require.

-- 
Ben Sizer


From peter at engcorp.com  Mon Apr  5 22:01:31 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Mon, 05 Apr 2004 22:01:31 -0400
Subject: Does Python compete with Java?
In-Reply-To: <msKdnRYsav07k-_dRVn-jw@powergate.ca>
References: <8b336527.0404051337.51bb4a1b@posting.google.com>
	<1073su4etm95p35@news.supernews.com>
	<roy-094613.21022405042004@reader1.panix.com>
	<msKdnRYsav07k-_dRVn-jw@powergate.ca>
Message-ID: <msKdnREsav3mku_dRVn-jw@powergate.ca>

Peter Hansen wrote:

> Roy Smith wrote:
> 
>> They don't have one for Python, but I expect it would be something 
>> like this:
>>
>> You create a Foot object and call its shoot() method.  The bullet 
>> makes a hole in your foot, but by that time you've gotten dragged into 
>> a huge flamewar about the relative merits of spaces vs. tabs for 
>> indentation and barely notice the pain.
> 
> 
> See Laura's excellent
> 
> http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=slrna0f23p.511.QnickQm%40h00104b6bfa23.ne.mediaone.net 

Oops!  My apologies to Nick Mathewson, who actually wrote that.
I have a distinct, and clearly wrong, memory of it having been
authored by Laura Creighton. :-(

> and also a whole thread from late 2001
> 
> http://groups.google.ca/groups?threadm=fPBN7.961%24zX1.1625310%40typhoon.ne.mediaone.net 
> 
> -Peter


From imbosol at aerojockey.invalid  Sat Apr 17 22:01:57 2004
From: imbosol at aerojockey.invalid (Carl Banks)
Date: Sun, 18 Apr 2004 02:01:57 GMT
Subject: Proposed PEP: Treating Builtins as Constants in the Standard
	Library
References: <5d83790c.0404171557.3db69f48@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <pklgc.3683$8k.2447@fe1.columbus.rr.com>

Raymond Hettinger wrote:
> PEP: 329
> Title: Treating Builtins as Constants in the Standard Library
> Author: Raymond Hettinger <python at rcn.com>
> Status: Pre-PEP
> 
> 
> Abstract
> ========
> 
> This proposal is to add a private function for treating builtin
> references as constants and to apply that function throughout
> the standard library.




Two things:

1. The new _bind module needs to have a more specific (and
   appropriate) name than _bind.  The function in the module could
   still be named bind, but the module itself should be named
   something like

   _optimize_globals_as_consts_very_unsafe

   (Ok, but you get the idea.)

2. The module being optimized should have a special attribute, say
   __variable__, that identifies any globals that should not be
   optimized in this way:

   __variable__ = ['global_that_might_change']


Other than that, +1.  I'm definitely in favor of optimization hacks
whenever it doesn't intrude too much on the code.  It would be nice if
it were safer.


-- 
CARL BANKS                      http://www.aerojockey.com/software
"If you believe in yourself, drink your school, stay on drugs, and
don't do milk, you can get work." 
          -- Parody of Mr. T from a Robert Smigel Cartoon


From daniel at dittmar.net  Thu Apr 22 15:17:37 2004
From: daniel at dittmar.net (Daniel Dittmar)
Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2004 21:17:37 +0200
Subject: AOP use cases
In-Reply-To: <tyfvfjst2k9.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
References: <84fc4588.0404140106.3fa0c55@posting.google.com>
	<slrnc7q1ss.1aa.alf@largo.fayauffre.org>
	<cb035744.0404141130.170f51c4@posting.google.com>
	<slrnc7sgat.vp.alf@largo.fayauffre.org>
	<cb035744.0404160442.2f0b1661@posting.google.com>
	<0pydnSB4WYuieuLdRVn-hQ@powergate.ca>
	<tyfbrlkv3ae.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
	<XYmdnVLB9rjbARrdRVn-vg@powergate.ca>
	<tyf7jw8utoo.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
	<c68fj5$7bt$1@news1.wdf.sap-ag.de>
	<tyfvfjst2k9.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
Message-ID: <c695on$p0f$1@news.eusc.inter.net>

Jacek Generowicz wrote:
> Not really. By separation of concerns I mean:

I know you meant 'separation of concers as defined by AOP'. But saying 
'AOP allows separation of concerns as defined by AOP' is somewhat circular.

> Stupid example:

Why not use an intelligent example instead? LISP had before and after 
methods for ages, so there should be plenty of examples.

Daniel


From peter at engcorp.com  Thu Apr 22 11:37:35 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2004 11:37:35 -0400
Subject: Python use large scale projects
In-Reply-To: <aKydnV3AIssWThrdRVn-gg@comcast.com>
References: <47fc6058.0404212327.24163290@posting.google.com>
	<aKydnV3AIssWThrdRVn-gg@comcast.com>
Message-ID: <asCdnTLM14wiexrdRVn-uQ@powergate.ca>

Larry Bates wrote:

> I should point out that I have 30+ years of experience
> and have learned many languages over the years, so I'm
> not a language bigot.  I just want something that makes
> me productive and that produces reliable programs that
> are HIGHLY maintainable.  Maintenance becomes 80% of the
> problem after an application is developed. Python fits
> that bill for me.

Beautiful post, Larry.  You're speaking for many of us...


From alloydflanagan at comcast.net  Thu Apr 29 10:01:30 2004
From: alloydflanagan at comcast.net (A. Lloyd Flanagan)
Date: 29 Apr 2004 07:01:30 -0700
Subject: Is classless worth consideration
References: <g9k090lhocd1nbd7g230br6ooub113hjt6@4ax.com>
	<69cbbef2.0404290259.fd8d71c@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <e838aa6e.0404290601.37f6017c@posting.google.com>

has.temp2 at virgin.net (has) wrote in message news:<69cbbef2.0404290259.fd8d71c at posting.google.com>...
> 
> Well, as far as Python itself is concerned, it'd go a long way in
> eliminating the hideously baroque and increasingly brittle OO model it
> currently has. But that's by-the-by; the real problem isn't with
> Python itself but in the "we Python programmers".
> 

I wouldn't call it "hideously baroque", myself.  Yes, there are some
details that need to be cleaned up (and when do we get a target date
for Python 3?).  On the other hand, for most programming most of the
time, it's pretty straightforward.

Of course, I'm a C++ expert, so my standard of what qualifies as
"baroque" is probably pretty high. :)

None of which means I don't think your approach isn't interesting and
worth pursuing.  I look forward to seeing how it goes.


From noemail at noemail4u.com  Wed Apr 21 07:31:15 2004
From: noemail at noemail4u.com (Daniel 'Dang' Griffith)
Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2004 11:31:15 GMT
Subject: AOP use case? (was Re: Proposed PEP: Treating Builtins as
	Constants in the Standard)
References: <5d83790c.0404171557.3db69f48@posting.google.com>
	<c600af$22s$3@arcturus.ciril.fr>
	<Eb-dnXlhDMUJXB7dRVn-iQ@powergate.ca>
	<097808fe24c7cc9771e446d5bddfe91d@news.teranews.com>
	<lZudnVhUQrJdqRjdRVn_iw@powergate.ca>
Message-ID: <c4fbcb0c3ca5244b9fa2394ed25db843@news.teranews.com>

On Tue, 20 Apr 2004 10:33:36 -0400, Peter Hansen <peter at engcorp.com>
wrote:

>Daniel 'Dang' Griffith wrote:
>
>> On Mon, 19 Apr 2004 08:09:56 -0400, Peter Hansen <peter at engcorp.com>
>> wrote:
>> ...
>>>automated testing.  The most easily demonstrated one is where
>>>the builtin open/file calls are replaced with a simulated ("mock")
>>>file system which applies to *all* modules, not just a single
>>>module under test.  This functionality is critical to some people
>>>using Python with the Test-Driven Development approach to software.
>> 
>> Isn't this the use case for AOP you were looking for?
>>     --dang
>
>As you might imagine from my previous postings, I have no idea.
>I don't understand well enough what AOP really is to say,
>obviously (given my requests for compelling use cases so I can
>understand why I would even want to investigate it).
>
>Can you describe how AOP would solve this problem?  As I
>understand it so far, it has nothing to do with mock objects...

Probably not.
I'm not an "AOP person", but from what I understand, you could use
an AOP-enabled language to replace the real file system (or whatever)
objects with the mock objects.  This is roughly analagous to the
standard logging or auditing examples, wherein a program is doing what
it needs to do, meanwhile a cross-cutting aspect intercepts certain
operations and performing additional, or different, operations.
    --dang


From hwlgw at hotmail.com  Thu Apr 15 05:10:37 2004
From: hwlgw at hotmail.com (Will Stuyvesant)
Date: 15 Apr 2004 02:10:37 -0700
Subject: Aspect Programming Module
References: <84fc4588.0404140106.3fa0c55@posting.google.com>
	<slrnc7q1ss.1aa.alf@largo.fayauffre.org>
	<cb035744.0404141130.170f51c4@posting.google.com>
	<slrnc7rh3n.6oq.joe@gate.notcharles.ca>
Message-ID: <cb035744.0404150110.71e4ac2a@posting.google.com>

> [Joe Mason]
> > "AOP is a contrived way to get around the limitations of a statically
> > typed language."
> 
> Care to explain that?  What I've seen of AOP seems like a very dynamic
> design philosophy.

Dynamic indeed.  And that is a problem for statically types
programming languages like Java.

To add logging capabilities to an instance object of a Python class
you simply add a function/method that does the job.  Add it as an
attribute to the object itself, or to the object's __class__, or to
anything else you can get at via the object and its attributes.

You can not do that in Java because the Java class definition is
"fixed", you can't change it.  But they still want to do it, so they
use a complex AOP framework to do it in.


From peter9547 at btinternet.com  Sat Apr  3 13:19:05 2004
From: peter9547 at btinternet.com (Peter MacKenzie)
Date: Sat, 3 Apr 2004 18:19:05 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: emergent/swarm/evolutionary systems etc
References: <c4aeq8$92a$1@hercules.btinternet.com>
	<c4btjr$8il$1@titan.btinternet.com>
	<c4ccs2$l9j$1@news.service.uci.edu>
	<c4hjp4$dg6$1@sparta.btinternet.com>
	<c4ibr0$ngm$1@news.service.uci.edu>
	<c4jehj$6eh$1@titan.btinternet.com>
	<b58bdd20aeb4b31cdcfc2a4fc1054a3a@news.teranews.com>
	<c4k63o$bss$1@hercules.btinternet.com>
	<2de080a12a9c6c488149f4b031bb46be@news.teranews.com>
Message-ID: <c4mv6o$c2m$1@hercules.btinternet.com>

I think then that I might stick with spreadsheets as far a possible.  Do you
know of any simulation programs that might be more suited?  Also, how would
you extract data from a spreadsheet for use in another program?  I'm not
familiar with means of linking spreadsheets to external applications, though
I don't doubt that it can be done.




From andymac at bullseye.apana.org.au  Sat Apr 10 20:27:18 2004
From: andymac at bullseye.apana.org.au (Andrew MacIntyre)
Date: Sun, 11 Apr 2004 10:27:18 +1000 (EST)
Subject: Wrapper round x86 Assembler
In-Reply-To: <8089854e.0404100204.504186a0@posting.google.com>
References: <8089854e.0404082353.7bf163a2@posting.google.com>
	<4dKdnQlIXMIXIevdRVn-gg@powergate.ca>
	<8089854e.0404100204.504186a0@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <20040411100719.D28686@bullseye.apana.org.au>

On Sat, 10 Apr 2004, Fuzzyman wrote:

> *However* it's not quite what I had in mind. What I'd like to be able
> to do is to access machine code subroutines from within normal python.
>
> Not that exploring pyrex is a bad idea - I probably should.
> I don't think my 'idea' would be hard to achieve, since effectively
> all that would be needed is a wrapper to an existing freeware
> assembler *and* an interface to the assembled 'objects'. Ho hum - a
> bit beyond me at the moment and until I have a real burning need for
> it will have to remain an idea......

At the moment you have several alternatives available that I can see:

- build your assembly routines into a DLL/.so and use Thomas Heller's
  excellent ctypes module.

- build your assembly routines into a library or DLL/.so and use Pyrex
  to call them.

- find a C compiler that understands how to build asm files to objects,
  then tweak the Distutils support to call the compiler when it an
  assembly source file is included in a Distutils'ified package.  On
  Windows MinGW should get the job done; gcc can do so for posix
  platforms.

- do it the old fashioned way: create a makefile that builds the
  components and links to the Python core.

If you want to avoid dealing with the necessary Python C API boilerplate
required to allow Python to call your routine, you'll find the ctypes
solution by far the easiest as your code only has to have a calling
interface compatible with a C compiler.  The Pyrex solution could work as
well, but introduces an extra language layer into the situation.

The other 2 approaches require that your code deals with the Python C API,
and you would have to create the necessary include files to replicate
"Python.h" appropriately.

The only downside to the ctypes approach may be performance, as each call
may have a high overhead cost compared to the other approaches.

--
Andrew I MacIntyre                     "These thoughts are mine alone..."
E-mail: andymac at bullseye.apana.org.au  (pref) | Snail: PO Box 370
        andymac at pcug.org.au             (alt) |        Belconnen  ACT  2616
Web:    http://www.andymac.org/               |        Australia



From herrn at gmx.net  Mon Apr  5 16:43:26 2004
From: herrn at gmx.net (Marco Herrn)
Date: 5 Apr 2004 20:43:26 GMT
Subject: regex help for a newbie
References: <c4rkh6$2kr4f5$2@ID-165840.news.uni-berlin.de>
	<c4rlno$2l6532$1@ID-111250.news.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <c4sgde$2lofjp$1@ID-165840.news.uni-berlin.de>

On 2004-04-05, Diez B. Roggisch <deetsNOSPAM at web.de> wrote:
> def parse(input):
>     res = ""
>     level = 0
>     for c in input:
>         if c == "(":
>             level += 1
>         elif c == ")":
>             level -= 1
>         if level > 0 and c != "(":
>             res += c
>     return res

Thanks, that helped a lot. I had to rewrite it a bit, but now it works.
Many Thanks.
Marco


-- 
Marco Herrn             herrn at gmx.net
(GnuPG/PGP-signed and crypted mail preferred)
Key ID: 0x94620736



From michael at foord.net  Fri Apr 16 09:30:25 2004
From: michael at foord.net (Fuzzyman)
Date: 16 Apr 2004 06:30:25 -0700
Subject: Wrapper round x86 Assembler
References: <8089854e.0404082353.7bf163a2@posting.google.com>
	<4dKdnQlIXMIXIevdRVn-gg@powergate.ca>
	<8089854e.0404100204.504186a0@posting.google.com>
	<kcWdnaFpw_PvdurdRVn-sA@powergate.ca>
	<8089854e.0404122329.5dfe5ce1@posting.google.com>
	<R9-dnUYH8r32f-bd4p2dnA@powergate.ca>
	<8089854e.0404132323.3283390@posting.google.com>
	<C72dnV4KRqbJreDdRVn-jA@powergate.ca>
	<8089854e.0404141105.37d09320@posting.google.com>
	<c5nn0n$312cv$1@ID-169208.news.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <8089854e.0404160530.5b7c23aa@posting.google.com>

Greg Ewing <greg at cosc.canterbury.ac.nz> wrote in message news:<c5nn0n$312cv$1 at ID-169208.news.uni-berlin.de>...
> Fuzzyman wrote:
> > The only compielr I have is gcc under mingw - and I'm not at all sure
> > it's set up right. Does pyrex still need a C-compiler or *is* pyrex a
> > compiler ?
> 
> It needs a C compiler. MinGW should be fine
> (once you get it set up properly, anyway:-).

Yeah - I'm having great fun getting it set up.
MinGW seems easy enough to install - I've even compiled example C
programs with gcc - but getting disutils to use it is another
matter...

Regards,


Fuzzy

http://www.voidspace.org.uk/atlantibots/pythonutils.html


From arigo at tunes.org  Sat Apr  3 19:53:05 2004
From: arigo at tunes.org (Armin Rigo)
Date: Sun, 4 Apr 2004 00:53:05 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Python is faster than C
References: <406F0907.96F37EA1@tunes.org> <7xy8pcogaa.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<406F454B.C4CC8063@tunes.org> <7xekr4vdek.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <406F5E95.EBE6D3E8@tunes.org>

Paul Rubin wrote:
> I think you're saying that instead of having xrange return a special
> object, range should return that special object instead.  I'm not too
> clear on the distinction.

No, range should return an object that is a list, as far as you can tell
from Python, but which is represented more efficiently than an array of
objects internally.  The distinction is between the language level (it
would be a list, with all operations, etc.) and the implementation
(there is no reason why all lists should be arrays of PyObjects
internally).

Another example would be 'a'*999999999: the result is a string, but
there is no reason that it takes 100MB of memory.  Instead, store it
into a C structure that contains a pointer to the original string object
'a' and the repetition counter, but still give this C structure the
Python type str, so that the difference doesn't show up and the Python
language remains simple.  (This is a bit difficult to implement
currently in CPython, but not impossible.)

> Also, how can the compiler or interpreter
> know whether the program will only access the object sequentially?
> It has to predict the behavior of the program, instead of being told
> explicitly.

Ideally: If you do  x=range(100); x[50]='hi'  then the interpreter first
builds this optimized range representation and assigns it to x; and when
in the next statement you modify this list x it says 'oops! i cannot do
that with this representation', so it reverts to an array-like
representation (i.e. it creates all 100 elements) and then changes the
50th.  No gain here.  If on the other hand you only ever do 'easy'
things with your list, like iterate over it or read elements, then it
can all be done with the range representation, without falling back to
the array representation.

Again I'm not saying it is trivial to implement it, but that not having
to expose for optimization purposes 'xrange' and the whole 'iterator'
part of the language would be worth it, in my opinion.


Armin


From grante at visi.com  Thu Apr 29 13:07:27 2004
From: grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards)
Date: 29 Apr 2004 17:07:27 GMT
Subject: Don't understand wxPython ids
References: <408ed938$0$17263$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
	<BOEjc.12559$eZ5.4366@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>
	<408f3061$0$17258$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
	<zCJjc.12791$eZ5.2682@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>
	<408fb665$0$17264$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
	<yoTjc.13255$eZ5.1700@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>
	<mfWjc.16567$e4.16098@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net>
	<40913150$0$17257$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
Message-ID: <4091364f$0$30295$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>

On 2004-04-29, Grant Edwards <grante at visi.com> wrote:

>> #yourmodule.py
>> import wx
>> from event_kwargs import *
>
> Hmm. I guess it's time to upgrade to 2.5.

I guess not.  It appears it would require upgrading so many
other things it would probably take at least a week or two. :(

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow!  I just heard the
                                  at               SEVENTIES were over!! And
                               visi.com            I was just getting in touch
                                                   with my LEISURE SUIT!!


From elainejackson7355 at home.com  Mon Apr 26 00:05:25 2004
From: elainejackson7355 at home.com (Elaine Jackson)
Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2004 04:05:25 GMT
Subject: Trouble Understanding O'Reilly Example
References: <108p21f7asq1cc8@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <9U%ic.260962$Ig.239971@pd7tw2no>

This is one of those "V8 bugs" that make you smack your forehead: line 4 of the
function definition should read " if arg < res: ". Fix that, and everything
works as expected.

"slyraymond" <sly_raymond at charter.net> wrote in message
news:108p21f7asq1cc8 at corp.supernews.com...
| On page 214 of _Learning Python_, the following function is described as one
| that will return the smallest item in a group of arguments:
|
| def min1(*args):
|   res = args[0]
|   for arg in args[1:]:
|     if arg < args:
|       res = arg
|   return res
|
| However, when the function called with...
|
| print min1(3,4,1,2)
|
| ...it returns:
|
| 2
|
| Why?




From lac at strakt.com  Tue Apr 13 02:20:07 2004
From: lac at strakt.com (Laura Creighton)
Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2004 08:20:07 +0200
Subject: Estimating the Airspeed Velocity of an Unladen Swallow
Message-ID: <200404130620.i3D6K7Ze009713@ratthing-b246.strakt.com>

Somebody has done it.
http://www.style.org/unladenswallow

Laura



From JasonHarper at pobox.com  Mon Apr  5 08:43:16 2004
From: JasonHarper at pobox.com (Jason Harper)
Date: Mon, 05 Apr 2004 05:43:16 -0700
Subject: Working with bytes.
References: <406EE606.4000604@yahoo.com>
	<mailman.308.1081013778.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<406f33b6$0$30963$3a628fcd@reader1.nntp.hccnet.nl>
	<wzk70vrbnv.fsf@Ordesa.local>
	<4071273d$0$132$3a628fcd@reader1.nntp.hccnet.nl>
Message-ID: <4071539F.718DBD1A@pobox.com>

Anton Vredegoor wrote:
> I wonder whether it would be possible to use more than six bits per
> byte but less than seven? There seem to be some character codes left
> and these could be used too?

Look up Base85 coding (a standard part of PostScript) for an example of
how this can be done - 4 bytes encoded per 5 characters of printable ASCII.
	Jason Harper


From fidtz at clara#spam#.co.uk  Thu Apr  8 07:11:02 2004
From: fidtz at clara#spam#.co.uk (DomF)
Date: Thu, 8 Apr 2004 12:11:02 +0100
Subject: what is happening here?
References: <c4vaum$q39$1@nntp.ece.cmu.edu>
Message-ID: <1081422537.1714.0@ersa.uk.clara.net>

"dan miller (moderator, s.p.d)" <danbmil at cmu.edu> wrote in message
news:c4vaum$q39$1 at nntp.ece.cmu.edu...
> trying to figure out scoping of 'globals' in modules.  So I have test.py:
>
> glob = 1
>
> def setglob(v):
>    global glob
>    glob = v
>
> def getglob():
>    return glob
>
>
> and I do this:
>
>  >>> from test import *
>  >>> glob
> 1
>  >>> getglob()
> 1
>  >>> glob=2
>  >>> glob
> 2
>  >>> getglob()
> 1
>  >>> setglob(3)
>  >>> getglob()
> 3
>  >>> glob
> 2
>
>
> Seems to me like the first time I invoke glob, it creates a new global
> in my namespace, and initializes it to the value of the glob in test.py.
>     Seems counterintuitive!

This is an instance of "from x import *" being harmful. Try this with just
"import test" in the shell and it doesn't look confusing at all:

>>> import test
>>> glob
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
NameError: name 'glob' is not defined
>>> test.glob
1
>>> test.getglob()
1
>>> glob=2
>>> glob
2
>>> test.getglob()
1
>>> test.setglob(3)
>>> test.getglob()
3
>>> glob
2

Dom




From nicolas.lehuen at thecrmcompany.com  Thu Apr 22 10:53:55 2004
From: nicolas.lehuen at thecrmcompany.com (Nicolas Lehuen)
Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2004 16:53:55 +0200
Subject: This is very simple question
References: <b0457a31.0404210754.2a34b6be@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.840.1082563771.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<108dbd1aftmkc48@corp.supernews.com>
	<4087a0f6$0$25552$afc38c87@news.easynet.fr>
	<108fl7h8oocmm5c@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <4087dc83$0$24703$afc38c87@news.easynet.fr>

> >    return result.reverse() # if you really want it reversed
>
> I agree that divmod() improves the algorithm, and thank
> you for pointing that out.
> 
> I'm reasonably certain that the return value of reverse()
> is not what you believe it to be.
> -- 
> 
> Cameron Laird <claird at phaseit.net>
> Business:  http://www.Phaseit.net

Ooops indeed, reverse() always returns None, because the reverse is made in place. I did test the program without the reverse, so I missed this mistake. Thanks !

BTW, I've been bitten by this behaviour a lot since I've switched to Python a year ago (coming from C++ and Java)... I would feel much better if reverse(), sort() and so on returned the list itself ; but then maybe other people would think the reversing/sorting etc. would not be done in place...

Regards,
Nicolas


From has.temp2 at virgin.net  Thu Apr 29 16:54:58 2004
From: has.temp2 at virgin.net (has)
Date: 29 Apr 2004 13:54:58 -0700
Subject: Is classless worth consideration
References: <g9k090lhocd1nbd7g230br6ooub113hjt6@4ax.com>
	<69cbbef2.0404290259.fd8d71c@posting.google.com>
	<e838aa6e.0404290601.37f6017c@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <69cbbef2.0404291254.166f5da@posting.google.com>

alloydflanagan at comcast.net (A. Lloyd Flanagan) wrote in message news:<e838aa6e.0404290601.37f6017c at posting.google.com>...

> > Well, as far as Python itself is concerned, it'd go a long way in
> > eliminating the hideously baroque and increasingly brittle OO model it
> > currently has. 
> 
> I wouldn't call it "hideously baroque", myself.  Yes, there are some
> details that need to be cleaned up (and when do we get a target date
> for Python 3?).  On the other hand, for most programming most of the
> time, it's pretty straightforward.
> 
> Of course, I'm a C++ expert, so my standard of what qualifies as
> "baroque" is probably pretty high. :)

:)

> None of which means I don't think your approach isn't interesting and
> worth pursuing.  I look forward to seeing how it goes.

Prothon isn't my baby but Mark Hahn's - see <www.prothon.org>. (FWIW,
I also consider Prothon's OO programming model unnecessarily complex
in its current state, but it's still early days so who knows.) As for
seeing any language projects of my own, well I do have an idea of two
I'm just getting started on. But I'd not hold my breath if I were you,
as I'm a rather slow worker. :)


From pje at telecommunity.com  Wed Apr 21 19:08:50 2004
From: pje at telecommunity.com (Phillip J. Eby)
Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2004 19:08:50 -0400
Subject: PEP 329 and bytecode hacking
In-Reply-To: <DE1CF2B4FEC4A342BF62B6B2B334601E562038@opus.amorhq.net>
Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.0.20040421190433.01fe20c0@telecommunity.com>

At 03:58 PM 4/21/04 -0700, Robert Brewer wrote:
>Phillip J. Eby wrote:
> > At 03:07 PM 4/21/04 -0700, Robert Brewer wrote:
> > >Raymond's cookbook recipe inspired me to write a generic Visitor for
> > >inspecting and rewriting bytecode. Maybe it'll help someone out there
> > >with prototyping bytecode hacks.
> >
> > For more sophisticated bytecode modifications, you'll want to
> > keep track of
> > things like source line number, the nth instruction and its
> > operand if any
> > (so you can scan *backwards*), the list of locations of a
> > given opcode,
> > etc.  This Pyrex module:
> >
> >
>http://cvs.eby-sarna.com/PEAK/src/peak/util/_Code.pyx?rev=1.2&content-ty
>pe=text/vnd.viewcvs-markup
> > provides high-speed dynamic access to bytecode metadata, and is
>suitable
> > for use in runtime bytecode hacks, since it does not require Python
> > function call overhead for each instruction.
>
>Good idea! I'll work on including that. It's not as context-sensitive as
>visiting each opcode in turn, but sometimes no context is good context.

You can visit items in turn using something like:

i = 0
while True:
    opcode,operand = idx.opcode(i), idx.operand(i)
    i+=1

Or, if you have a more recent version of Pyrex than the above code was 
built for, you can make the 'length' attribute public (i.e. 'cdef public 
length') and use:

for i in range(idx.length):
     opcode,operand  = idx.opcode(i), idx.operand(i)




From jepler at unpythonic.net  Wed Apr 21 08:22:59 2004
From: jepler at unpythonic.net (Jeff Epler)
Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2004 07:22:59 -0500
Subject: Python GUI wrapper for a long operation
In-Reply-To: <108cnp89aedqp82@corp.supernews.com>
References: <de21d442.0404142156.2b9f7ef0@posting.google.com>
	<9396ba6f.0404160520.364699c4@posting.google.com>
	<de21d442.0404201902.429a6b22@posting.google.com>
	<108cnp89aedqp82@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <20040421122259.GA9864@unpythonic.net>

To interleave calculation and GUI activity in the same thread, simply
call the "update_idletasks" or "update" method on any Tk widget at
intervals.

update_idletasks() will do things like repaint windows that have been
uncovered or resized, or when the information displayed on a widget has
changed.

update() will handle all events, just like mainloop(), but returns as soon
as there's no longer an event to handle.

Jeff

from Tkinter import *
import time

class StupidProgress(Label):
    def __init__(self, master):
        Label.__init__(self, master, text="0%")

    def progress(self, percent):
        self.configure(text="%s%%" % percent)
        self.update()

abort = 0
def calculation():
    b.configure(state=DISABLED)
    c.configure(state=NORMAL)
    for i in range(100):
        print "calculation"
        time.sleep(.1) # represents doing .1 second of calculation
        if check_abort():
            b.configure(state=NORMAL)
            c.configure(state=DISABLED)
            l.progress(0)
            return
        l.progress(i)
    l.progress(100)
    c.configure(state=DISABLED)
    m.configure(text="Result: 42")

def check_abort():
    global abort
    if not abort: return 0
    abort = 0
    return 1

def do_abort():
    global abort
    abort = 1

app = Tk()
l = StupidProgress(app)
m = Label(app, text="(No result)")
b = Button(app, command=calculation, text="Find answer")
c = Button(app, command=do_abort, text="Never mind", state=DISABLED)

l.pack()
m.pack()
b.pack()
c.pack()

app.mainloop();



From Bill.Scherer at VerizonWireless.com  Fri Apr 16 07:08:55 2004
From: Bill.Scherer at VerizonWireless.com (Bill Scherer)
Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2004 07:08:55 -0400
Subject: Python 2.3 on RedHat 9
In-Reply-To: <mailman.653.1082042823.20120.python-list@python.org> 
References: <mailman.653.1082042823.20120.python-list@python.org> 
Message-ID: <407FBEC7.6040103@VerizonWireless.com>

simo wrote:

>Bill Scherer <Bill.Scherer at VerizonWireless.com> wrote:
>
>  
>
>>>Did you install on top of Python 2.2 or did you install in a separate 
>>>directory (eg the default)? 
>>>      
>>>
>
>  
>
>>2.3 prefix is /usr/local, RedHat's installed python prefix is /usr
>>    
>>
>
>Yes, and that seems to be the root of all evil for me - everything I
>install wants to go into the /usr/<lib or bin>/python2.2 directories
>instead of /usr/local/<lib or bin>/python2.3!
>
>Forget the RPMs, 
>
Many RPM's are relocatable; from the rpm man page:

--prefix NEWPATH
For relocateable binary packages, translate all file paths that
start with the installation prefix in the package relocation
hint(s) to NEWPATH.

--relocate OLDPATH=NEWPATH
For relocatable binary packages, translate all file paths that
start with OLDPATH in the package relocation hint(s) to NEWPATH.
This option can be used repeatedly if several OLDPATH?s in the
package are to be relocated.


>compile everything from source is my advice (I
>installed 2.3.3, VPython, Installer, wxPython, PyQt, SIPs,
>wxGlade....)
>
>What annoyed me was when I was evaluating LindowsOS and "apt-get
>install libwxgtk24" installed everything for me (including Python
>2.3.3!) in about 3 minutes as apposed to about 8 hours of compilation
>time and hunting around for source tarballs! It was even easier that
>Windows I think!
>
I too compille most of the Python add-ons I use.
It's never taken 8 hours....it must be the 3Ghz cpu...;-)







From daniel at syrinx.net  Sat Apr 10 23:08:25 2004
From: daniel at syrinx.net (Daniel Ellison)
Date: Sat, 10 Apr 2004 23:08:25 -0400
Subject: why is python better than eg. smalltalk?? no one has any solid
	arguments! you should all go to church with all that religious talk!
References: <mailman.440.1081414295.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<c59l5o$2faa0i$1@ID-180326.news.uni-berlin.de>
	<c59lvb$mtm$1@nemesis.news.tpi.pl> <c5abbm$ko8$1@panix2.panix.com>
	<c5acf1$2nlp5a$1@ID-180326.news.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <c5acpj$2mk1c1$1@ID-227230.news.uni-berlin.de>

"Jon Perez" <jbperez808 at wahoo.com> wrote in message
news:c5acf1$2nlp5a$1 at ID-180326.news.uni-berlin.de...
> Aahz wrote:
>
> > I found my editor fifteen years ago.  Guess which it is.  (The point
> > being that there are only two editors still in regular use that were
> > available fifteen years ago -- and those two editors are still
ubiquitous
> > now.  Doesn't matter much which you pick, they'll still be available
> > fifteen years in the future.)
>
> YEAAARRGGGHHH!!! An Emacs user... stay away from me, you satanist!!!!
>
> ;-)  hehe j/k...

Yes, who in their right mind would use emacs when there's a perfectly good
alternative in vi?

<duck> <head for the hills>




From surrender_it at remove.yahoo.it  Tue Apr 27 02:34:55 2004
From: surrender_it at remove.yahoo.it (gabriele renzi)
Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2004 06:34:55 GMT
Subject: Is Perl *that* good?
References: <c6ich0$c5mee$1@ID-205437.news.uni-berlin.de>	<iL3jc.232$Yc.2330@news4.e.nsc.no>	<108q51j4dscn7dc@corp.supernews.com>
	<knbjc.267$id.3998@news2.e.nsc.no>
	<mailman.33.1083034378.25742.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <njvr805oi3r4mhe5ift8omh6qn0dukbpdr@4ax.com>

il Mon, 26 Apr 2004 19:52:28 -0700, Michael
<mogmios at mlug.missouri.edu> ha scritto::


>I've wondered if there is really a reason why a single language 
>processor couldn't be made that Perl, Python, PHP, etc could all be 
>compiled into.

that is the parrot, the perl6 VM I believe :)


From jepler at unpythonic.net  Wed Apr 21 08:44:16 2004
From: jepler at unpythonic.net (Jeff Epler)
Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2004 07:44:16 -0500
Subject: from newbie: how specify # of times to invoke a regex;
	conv tuple to string
In-Reply-To: <40866ae1$1@news.bezeqint.net>
References: <40866ae1$1@news.bezeqint.net>
Message-ID: <20040421124415.GC9864@unpythonic.net>

Instead of .findall(), you could use .finditer() and only consume a
few results.  Otherwise, you can write your own code to use the 2-arg
version of .search() to start at the first position after the end of
the previous match.

If you want to take the tuple
    t = ('e', '', '8', '.')
and get the string
    s = 'e8.'
you want
    s = ''.join(t)

Jeff



From rob at nospam.net  Sat Apr 17 06:42:49 2004
From: rob at nospam.net (Robert Ferber)
Date: Sat, 17 Apr 2004 12:42:49 +0200
Subject: (For gurus) Embed functions in webpages like in PHP?
References: <5eq4l1-9vm.ln1@pilz.hasos.com>
	<pan.2004.04.16.13.09.40.28527@thomas-guettler.de>
Message-ID: <93f7l1-hns.ln1@pilz.hasos.com>

Thomas Guettler wrote:

> Am Fri, 16 Apr 2004 12:38:16 +0200 schrieb Robert Ferber:
> 
>> Hi,
>> 
>> I'm  a PHP-programmer who evaluates Python for a new project.
>> I really like a lot of concepts of Python, especially the shell, but
>> there is one great feature of PHP which I don't know how to replace in
>> Python:
>> 
>> For database-intensive webpages, I like to cache the HTML-output on the
>> fly in the filesystem and put out the file later whenever the same URL is
>> requested again, for example:
> 
> The problem with caching: When is
> the data outdate?

Currently I just use the file creation date. I set it for example 2 weeks
into the future and whenever the creation date is in the past it is
assumend out of date.

> You could use this approach:
> Run a cron-job every hour which does the complicated
> query which needs long to compute. Dump
> the result into a file (Look for "pickle"
> in the module index of the docs).

That wouldn't work, in fact it would make matters worse.

First of all, I couldn't have different times for caches to get out of date,
then, more importantly, I'd have to run it for every possible combination
at once, for example for script.php?a=1&b=2&c=3, I'd have to do all
combinations for a, b and c which could lead to thousands, sometimes
millions of combinations.
Also, there is no way to know which values of a, b and c are even possible,
so I wouldn't even know what to generate.


-- 
Harte Arbeit zahlt sich sp?ter mal aus. Faulheit sofort!



From bo at systemhouse.dk  Tue Apr 20 16:22:51 2004
From: bo at systemhouse.dk (Bo Jacobsen)
Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 22:22:51 +0200
Subject: How to get the ip addresses of a nic
Message-ID: <LEfhc.146586$jf4.7761132@news000.worldonline.dk>

Is there a simple way to get all the ip addresses of a nic, beyound parsing
/etc/sysconfig/.....

-------------------------------------------------
Bo Jacobsen





From franck.lepoutre at caramail.com  Wed Apr 21 05:56:01 2004
From: franck.lepoutre at caramail.com (francois lepoutre)
Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2004 11:56:01 +0200
Subject: Paris python user group?
Message-ID: <408795ee$0$25893$79c14f64@nan-newsreader-02.noos.net>

Hi all french speaking, Paris-based python users,
Bonjour ? tous les utilisateurs parisiens de python,

How many are we to use python in the *Paris* Area?
Enough to build some community life?

Combien sommes nous ? utiliser python sur Paris?
Assez pour monter une assoc?

Two years ago i discovered perl and, by the way,
their cheerfull and welcoming Paris user community
http://paris.mongueurs.net/

Il y a deux ans, j'ai d?couvert perl et, par la m?me
occasion, la chaleureuse ambiance des perl mongueurs
de Paris

Informal meeting at "La Taverne R?publique"
5, place de la R?publique every month.
Socialising, a few drinks, some food (pizzas
available for die-hard... but most would stick
to moules-frites:)

Une r?union informelle ? la "Taverne R?publique"
5, place de la R?publique chaque mois.
Une ambiance decomplex?e, quelques boissons
et des moules-frites (pizzas pour les accros).

Great hours re-shaping IT late from 8pm into
the night... but I have since switched to python.

Des heures agr?ables ? refaire notre industrie
? partir de 8 heures du soir ... Mais depuis
je suis pass? ? python.

Anyone to join for a "Paris python user group"?
Des volontaires pour un groupe parisien ?

Same place, same programme, but there's
room for negociation, both for the drink
and the food :)

Nous proposons le m?me lieu et la m?me
formule mais nous sommes pr?ts ? discuter :)

Fran?ois et Jean




From mark at prothon.org  Fri Apr 23 16:50:24 2004
From: mark at prothon.org (Mark Hahn)
Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2004 13:50:24 -0700
Subject: Why we will use obj$func() often
References: <d2Uhc.22272$dZ1.1600@fed1read04> <84Uhc.22278$dZ1.5087@fed1read04>
	<mailman.927.1082665370.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<8AWhc.23114$dZ1.11070@fed1read04> <40883BFE.B381518A@alcyone.com>
	<27_hc.23801$dZ1.2716@fed1read04> <40887145.789A2FE8@alcyone.com>
	<7cki80hj976bia36lhf9er97v073o1pqvm@4ax.com>
	<w8dic.28710$dZ1.11206@fed1read04> <ulXiAls/KH1K089yn@the-wire.com>
Message-ID: <lkfic.29767$dZ1.17301@fed1read04>


"Mel Wilson" <mwilson at the-wire.com> wrote in message
news:ulXiAls/KH1K089yn at the-wire.com...

> It can, if you spell '&' differently:
>
> def getfunc():
>     def count (n=[0]):
>         n[0] += 1
>         print n[0]
>     return count
>
> c = getfunc()
> c()
> c()
> c()

True.  A bit inelegant, but then so is &.

Would you trade the "mutable integer" and "count(n=[0])" kludges for a
solution like &count ?  Does anyone agree with me that a "closure variable
prefix" is more explicit and readable?

Let's seperate the aesthetic issues of using "Perl-like" symbols from the
"closure variable prefix" functionality for a moment.  I'd like feedback on
both issues, but try to keep them seperate.




From db3l at fitlinxx.com  Wed Apr  7 13:04:25 2004
From: db3l at fitlinxx.com (David Bolen)
Date: 07 Apr 2004 13:04:25 -0400
Subject: Are line continuations needed?
References: <407409ef.82801353@news.eircom.net>
	<c518tu$k4b$1@swifty.westend.com>
Message-ID: <usmff7m92.fsf@fitlinxx.com>

Peter Maas <peter.maas at mplusr.de> writes:

> Just had this example:
> 
> d = { 'key1' : 'A very very long string of several hundred '\
>            'characters. I could use a multi-line string but '\
>            'then either left white space would be part of the '\
>            'string or I would have to align it at column 0 '\
>            '(ugly). I could embed it into a pair of brackets '\
>            'but I see no advantage over \\. Finally I could '\
>            'put this string on a single line (also ugly and hard '\
>            'to read).'
>        ...
>      }

Actually that's unnecessary since you are already in a braced
expression from the dictionary constructor.  So the lines are
implicitly continuation lines until you close the dictionary, and the
compilers combination of adjacent string constants still works.  You
can drop the continuation characters and it'll give the same
dictionary.

I tend to construct parenthetical expressions if I can to avoid the
explicit line continuation character - mostly since I think it looks
nicer, but there are some cases where I prefer the contination.
There's normally an alternative to the continuation, but one that I
don't consider as readable.

For example, one place where I've used line continuations was in
explicit from imports, such as:

    from some.package.exceptions import ExceptionName, OtherName, \
                                        AnotherName, AndAnotherName

where I find this more readable than repeating the "from <package>
import" portion of the line multiple times.

I also use it to suppress leading newlines in triple quoted strings,
while permitting me to write the entire string at the same indent
level, e.g.:

    MSG = """\
    blah blah blah

    and some more blah blah blah
    """

I'll also use it sometimes for string formatting operations (either
standalone or as part of print) where sometimes I think it looks nicer
than putting the entire expression in parenthesis), e.g.:

    some_variable = 'This is a formatting string args %s %s %s' % \
                    (argument1, argument2, argument3)


-- David


From jeffbarish at starband.net  Tue Apr  6 12:02:34 2004
From: jeffbarish at starband.net (Jeffrey Barish)
Date: Tue, 06 Apr 2004 10:02:34 -0600
Subject: CSV ignores lineterminator
References: <c4s8q9$5vc$1@sea.gmane.org>
	<16497.47126.723619.586429@montanaro.dyndns.org>
	<c4shfc$s6e$1@sea.gmane.org>
	<16497.52305.246261.519498@montanaro.dyndns.org>
Message-ID: <c4ukap$2lo$1@sea.gmane.org>

Skip Montanaro wrote:

> 
>     Jeffrey> Yes, I expect your example to work because each entry in
>     the Jeffrey> list defines a "line" regardless of csv:
>     ...
>     Jeffrey> In my example, the first "line" of the list is
>     Jeffrey> 'word1\tword2;word3\tword4'.  What I expect to happen is
>     that Jeffrey> the list passes the entire line to csv.reader(),
>     which then Jeffrey> splits off 'word1\tword2' as the first line by
>     virtue of the Jeffrey> presence of the lineterminator ';' and then
>     continues to scan Jeffrey> what remains.
> 
> I haven't the time to think deep thoughts about this problem at the
> moment. You might want to post to the csv mailing list
> (csv at mail.mojam.com) and see if one of the other csv folks can provide
> a more coherent/accurate answer.
> 
> Skip
> 
For the record, the answer that I got back from one of the developers is
that lineterminator is used only for output.
-- 
Jeffrey Barish




From bignose-hates-spam at and-benfinney-does-too.id.au  Thu Apr 22 23:57:13 2004
From: bignose-hates-spam at and-benfinney-does-too.id.au (Ben Finney)
Date: 23 Apr 2004 13:47:13 +0950
Subject: Why we will use obj$func() often
References: <d2Uhc.22272$dZ1.1600@fed1read04> <84Uhc.22278$dZ1.5087@fed1read04>
	<mailman.927.1082665370.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<8AWhc.23114$dZ1.11070@fed1read04> <40883BFE.B381518A@alcyone.com>
	<27_hc.23801$dZ1.2716@fed1read04> <40887145.789A2FE8@alcyone.com>
	<x60ic.23986$dZ1.13511@fed1read04>
Message-ID: <slrnc8h667.ahh.bignose-hates-spam@iris.polar.local>

On Thu, 22 Apr 2004 20:31:41 -0700, Mark Hahn wrote:
> "Erik Max Francis" <max at alcyone.com> wrote:
>> Seriously considering every single possible proposal is not
>> constructive.
>> [...]
>> Without a strong sense of what the language should look
>> like, Prothon is going to continue to look more and more like Perl.
>> It's already most of the way there.
> 
> Please hold off your ad hominem attacks until the product is designed,
> thank you very much.

Please understand what an ad hominem attack is before accusing others of
using it, thank you very much:

    <http://www.infidels.org/news/atheism/logic.html#hominem>

Erik's assertions were relating to the topic, not to your person or
circumstances.  They were not argumentum ad hominem.

-- 
 \        "If you go to a costume party at your boss's house, wouldn't |
  `\     you think a good costume would be to dress up like the boss's |
_o__)                       wife? Trust me, it's not."  -- Jack Handey |
Ben Finney <http://bignose.squidly.org/>


From Mike at DeleteThis.Geary.com  Wed Apr  7 17:28:57 2004
From: Mike at DeleteThis.Geary.com (Michael Geary)
Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2004 14:28:57 -0700
Subject: Are line continuations needed?
References: <mailman.418.1081348606.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<1078dq6i93pc12d@news.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <1078skqn9hgdd19@corp.supernews.com>

John Roth wrote:
> [Backslash line continuations are], I believe, planned for
> removal in 3.0. Remember that 3.0 will break everything
> anyway: it's the release for incompatible changes.

If this is true, it will put Python at a disadvantage compared to Perl with
regard to multiline strings. I thought David Bolen's example was pretty
compelling.

Without the backslash continuation, you're forced to write multiline strings
with the first line indented differently from the rest of the lines:

mystring = """first line
second line
third line"""

Yuck.

Backslash continuation fixes this, as David showed:

mystring = """\
first line
second line
third line"""

Maybe there will be some other way to do clean multiline strings in Python
3.0?

-Mike




From fd1 at gmx.org  Fri Apr  9 17:55:43 2004
From: fd1 at gmx.org (Frank Dieckmann)
Date: Fri, 09 Apr 2004 23:55:43 +0200
Subject: Python-2.3.3 install -> no "make"
References: <2278156.F9pO2Pa3OA@Lumina-verte.org>
	<3kEdc.3041$VE5.900@lakeread01>
Message-ID: <1619307.OB8hk4TKzy@Lumina-verte.org>

Steve Holden wrote:

> Frank Dieckmann wrote:
>> Unpacking was fine,
>> ./configure seems to be too,
> 
> If you don't have "make" then you need to install some development
> packages. "make" is the utility that uses the Makefile to build the
> software.
> 
>   Steve

Thank you, Steve and Jeff Epler!
I have shown that I am a newbe with Linux...
Your hint was right!
I installed 'make' and than insalled Python successfully.
Juchee, like we say in German (something like 'Yippee')

Frank


From peter at luciak.org  Sat Apr 24 14:54:03 2004
From: peter at luciak.org (Peter Luciak)
Date: Sat, 24 Apr 2004 20:54:03 +0200
Subject: ioctl(2) ?
Message-ID: <20040424185403.GA1383@avalon>

Hi,

is there any way to do a ioctl in python? I didn't find it in the os
module...

Thanks,
P.
-- 
Peter `cuco' Luciak 		jabber://cuc0 at jabber.sk
peter at luciak.org 		http://www.luciak.org/

Canadian: An unarmed American with health care.



From tkpmep at hotmail.com  Fri Apr 16 12:50:00 2004
From: tkpmep at hotmail.com (Thomas Philips)
Date: 16 Apr 2004 09:50:00 -0700
Subject: Learning about dictionaries
Message-ID: <b4a8ffb6.0404160850.42c0ccf@posting.google.com>

I'm teaching myself python and in the course of playing around with
dictionaries, I tried to create the following trivial dictionary

{1:'one', 2:'two'}

So I entered
>>> dict(1='one',2='two')
SyntaxError: keyword can't be an expression

As this did not work, I tried
>>> dict(1=one,2=two)
SyntaxError: keyword can't be an expression

and
>>> dict('1'='one','2'='two')
SyntaxError: keyword can't be an expression

as well as
>>> dict('1'=one,'2'=two)
SyntaxError: keyword can't be an expression

Out of curiosity, I tried
>>> dict(one=1,two=2)
{'two': 2, 'one': 1}

Why does this last attempt work, and more importantly, why did my four
earlier attempts fail? I might add that I have no trouble getting what
I want with
>>> dict(zip((1,2),('one','two')))
{1: 'one', 2: 'two'}
or
>>> dict(((1,'one'),(2,'two')))
{1: 'one', 2: 'two'}

Sincerely

Thomas Philips


From jcarlson at uci.edu  Mon Apr  5 19:26:56 2004
From: jcarlson at uci.edu (Josiah Carlson)
Date: Mon, 05 Apr 2004 16:26:56 -0700
Subject: Difference between default arguments and keyword arguments
In-Reply-To: <c4qo3b$qi6$1@panix1.panix.com>
References: <UmTbc.9904$NL4.4809@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net>
	<406FFEAF.3080400@netscape.net>
	<c4p4ld$2j1tnb$2@ID-165840.news.uni-berlin.de>
	<mailman.330.1081101671.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<c4qo3b$qi6$1@panix1.panix.com>
Message-ID: <c4sq68$ba4$2@news.service.uci.edu>

>>Functions implemented in C do not always have the property that every 
>>argument is a keyword argument. Functions implemented in Python do have 
>>that property. It's an implementation quirk.
> 
> Really?
> 
>     def foo(*args):
>         pass
> 
>     foo(x=1)
> 
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "x.py", line 4, in ?
>     foo(x=1)
> TypeError: foo() got an unexpected keyword argument 'x'


Really.  It just so happens that foo doesn't take any keyword arguments, 
nor does it have an argument named 'x'.

  - Josiah


From roy at panix.com  Fri Apr 16 11:32:38 2004
From: roy at panix.com (Roy Smith)
Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2004 11:32:38 -0400
Subject: Goodbye TCL
References: <0LudnSads6NmpuPdRVn-vw@centurytel.net>
	<f82c8ae7.0404151057.67333d4e@posting.google.com>
	<107u6ef5a2ise19@news.supernews.com>
	<f82c8ae7.0404160731.7473b61f@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <roy-02BF89.11323816042004@reader2.panix.com>

In article <f82c8ae7.0404160731.7473b61f at posting.google.com>,
 blacksqr at usa.net (Stephen Huntley) wrote:

> I would be curious to know what is the biggest-capacity Python network
> application in use?  How does it scale in comparison with AOLServer? 
> Any ideas?

How about the one you're using to post your articles -- Google.


From dmq at gain.com  Fri Apr 30 19:58:21 2004
From: dmq at gain.com (David MacQuigg)
Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2004 16:58:21 -0700
Subject: Python 4 - Was: Ideas for Python 3
References: <s1pt80h988ucqd8vbrd3occhpagtpssigg@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <m3p5905i35thbee59c23pjntq718auiaic@4ax.com>

I'm starting a new sub-thread. Warning: Don't venture into this one if
you can't stretch your imagination a little.  What I'm looking for
here is ideas for the ideal Python-like language that will make
less-experienced users happy.  To me, that means making Python
simpler, not necessarily more powerful.

I've got some ideas for how to handle the classes vs classless thing.
See the "Python4" document at http://ece.arizona.edu/~edatools/Python
Mainly, I want to keep classes, because I see them as very useful in
most programs, where a "two-tier" organization is helpful.  But I also
think I understand the needs of those who don't want a two-tier
organization.  Seems like the answer is to make classes optional.

Comments are welcome.  Suggestions are even better.

-- Dave

*************************************************************     *
* David MacQuigg, PhD              * email:  dmq at gain.com      *  *
* IC Design Engineer               * phone:  USA 520-721-4583  *  *  *
* Analog Design Methodologies                                  *  *  *
*                                  * 9320 East Mikelyn Lane     * * *
* VRS Consulting, P.C.             * Tucson, Arizona 85710        *
*************************************************************     *



From ajsiegel at optonline.com  Thu Apr  1 10:30:35 2004
From: ajsiegel at optonline.com (Arthur)
Date: Thu, 01 Apr 2004 15:30:35 GMT
Subject: Followup: big projects, games, reload
References: <mailman.192.1080761568.20120.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <8cco60967b3k1osmhq2642mdbr8ngaf2cj@4ax.com>

On Wed, 31 Mar 2004 14:32:47 -0500, "Terry Reedy" <tjreedy at udel.edu>
wrote:

>People fairly frequently ask about Python being used in big projects,
>commercial projects, commercial games, etc.  There was also a recent thread
>on the limitations of 'reload' and what one might do to get the reload
>behavior one wants...
>
>One of the PyCon talks that most surprised *me* is this:
>http://www.python.org/pycon/dc2004/papers/29/Panda3D.htm

It surprised me as well.  But for different reasons.

The Entertainment Technology Center at CMU seemed to have been (is?)
ground zero for Alice.  And Disney, is well, Disney.  And the Alan
Kay, Disney connection  - as to *educational* technology, disturbed me
- to put it mildly. I could say much on this.

So it was great to see that collaboration of Disney and CMU produce
something so clearly defined and powerful and - well - wholesome.

It was refreshing that:

   Panda3d - as opposed to, Alice -is and has been opened source and
crossplatform.

   It is and understands itself to be *entertainment* technology. No
ambiguity, and not depending on who the audience happens to be. 

  The students at CMU in the Building Virtual World class were given
the choice of Alice and Panda3d and 100% chose to work with Panda3d.

  The class project usingt Panda3d presented seemed to me, at least,
to be a clear swipe at the insipidness of Alice.

The Python community should feel good about Disney's choice of Python
as the scripting tools for Panda3d. And CMU support for the project
going forward.

Buy the community should intorspect a bit, IMO, about how so many
bright people seemed to have become enamored of Alice, simultaneously.
I will probably never get over the fact that a (let's say) overly
generous  view of Alice seemed to be almost of price of admission for
community acceptance for those of us interested in Python and
education.

Art

>
>It seems that Disney's rather successful ToonTown Online (
>http://toontown.com )
>is scripted in Python on top of their now open sourced Panda3D (C++)
>engine.
>( http://www.etc.cmu.edu/panda3d )
>This answers the first set of questions in the affirmative.
>
>One of their reasons for using Python is to be able to do the following:
>
>"Redefining methods:
>
>One of the truly powerful features of Panda3D is that you can stop a
>simulation, redefine a method, and start from that point again. This is
>done using Python features. Panda3D recursively digs through namespaces to
>find the definition of the class or methods and then swaps them for the
>new, thus rebinding the new version. There is also special code written to
>dig out all the stored function pointers, such as events and tasks, and
>replace those as well."
>
>I think this nicely illustrates what I saw as the conclusion of the reload
>thread: if one wants a reload function that does exactly what one wants in
>a particular application, one should write it oneself, and with effect, one
>can do so.
>
>Terry J. Reedy
>
>
>



From tundra at tundraware.com  Thu Apr  8 11:10:06 2004
From: tundra at tundraware.com (Tim Daneliuk)
Date: 08 Apr 2004 11:10:06 EDT
Subject: why is python better than eg. smalltalk?? no one has any solid
 arguments! you should all go to church with all that religious talk!
In-Reply-To: <opr53783cbmyya52@news.kadnet.dom>
References: <20031028061245.12451.00000133@mb-m01.aol.com>
	<mailman.237.1067515722.702.python-list@python.org>
	<opr53783cbmyya52@news.kadnet.dom>
Message-ID: <n26gk1-09e1.ln1@eskimo.tundraware.com>

Carlo v. Dango wrote:

> On Thu, 30 Oct 2003 13:08:02 +0100, Andy Jewell <andy at wild-flower.co.uk> 
> wrote:
> 
> OK, I'm on the python wagon as well, but I do not really se much 
> improvement over JAVA... especially when it comes to maintaining and 

<SNIP>

My view on Python's real virtue from several years ago:

http://www.tundraware.com/Technology/Python-Is-Middleware/
-- 
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Tim Daneliuk     tundra at tundraware.com
PGP Key:         http://www.tundraware.com/PGP/


From lubowiecka at go2.pl  Wed Apr 14 11:37:41 2004
From: lubowiecka at go2.pl (Sylwia)
Date: 14 Apr 2004 08:37:41 -0700
Subject: [Win32] HEEEEEEELLLLPPPP! I need to determine the cluster size on
	WinXP/NT/2k
Message-ID: <f6554b84.0404140737.2fe6a6cf@posting.google.com>

Hi!

I need Your help. I implement a Python NT service and I need to
determine (on WinXP/2k/XP) a cluster size of the particular partition
(to find out how much space a file will occupy on that partition).

Till now I faced the following problems:

- The GetDiskFreeSpace() function is reliable in deriving cluster size
if it is a FAT16 drive. If it is a FAT32 drive, the Win32
GetDiskFreeSpace  call is lying about cluster size.

-The newer GetDiskFreeSpaceEx call returns total and free space on the
drive, but does not provide a cluster size parameter at all!!!

-There's a small table that summarizes the default cluster size for 
every range of FAT32 volume sizes, but there's no guarantee that the 
user accepted the default when creating the partition :((((

- There is a DOS function, Int 21h Function 7303h Get_ExtFreeSpace
(FAT32),
but it exists only in Windows 95 SR 2 and later. This can be called 
through VWIN32.VXD using DeviceIoControl (unfortunately VWIN32 is
Win9x/Me specific driver and it's not available on Win2K/XP).

So is there any API that gets the FAT32 cluster size correctly in
WinNT/2k/XP?
Does anyone know of an API function that can tell me how much space a
file will occupy on the disk? It'll need to work with FAT, FAT32, and
NTFS.

Thank You in advance!

Farraige


From jzgoda at gazeta.usun.pl  Thu Apr 15 16:26:58 2004
From: jzgoda at gazeta.usun.pl (Jarek Zgoda)
Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2004 20:26:58 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: CamelCase versus wide_names (Prothon)
References: <UHxfc.9323$dZ1.3740@fed1read04> <87hdvl2dny.fsf@blakie.riol>
Message-ID: <c5mr6h$jkn$1@atlantis.news.tpi.pl>

Wilk <wilkSPAM at OUTflibuste.net> pisze:

>> 2) Wide_names is cleaner, more readable, compatible with C, which is the
>> standard module language for Python and Prothon.  Wide_names is also the
>> Python standard.
> 
> Before, i used CamelCase, but now i use only wide_name because i find
> that capitals letters are a pain for the finger and the wrist.  For
> example when you whant to write Q (on querty or azerty keyboard), with
> one hand you must make a gymnastic, or you will need two hands.

Underscore is such same pain. I cann't see any advantage.

-- 
Jarek Zgoda
http://jpa.berlios.de/


From heiko at hhenkelmann.de  Tue Apr 27 15:37:34 2004
From: heiko at hhenkelmann.de (Heiko Henkelmann)
Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2004 21:37:34 +0200
Subject: How to access outer class attribute from nested class
In-Reply-To: <mb-dnQC8B5rRMhPd4p2dnA@comcast.com>
References: <c6m9dg$die$1@online.de> <mb-dnQC8B5rRMhPd4p2dnA@comcast.com>
Message-ID: <c6mcs8$kel$1@online.de>

Sorry for not mentioning this in the first place. I don't want to 
instantiate the class. I much rather would to use it like:

SomeClass.SomeNestedClass.SomeNestedClassMethod()

Thanx


Larry Bates wrote:

> I use something like:
> 
> class SomeClass:
>     SomeAttribute = 1
> 
>     class SomeNestedClass:
>         SomeOtherAttribute = 2
>         def __init__(self, parent):
>             self.parent=parent
>             return
> 
>         def SomeNestedClassMethod(self):
>             print "%s-%s" % (
>                 self.parent.SomeAttribute,
>                 self.SomeOtherAttribute)
> 
>     def __init__(self):
>         self.SNC=self.SomeNestedClass(self)
>         return
> 
> if __name__=="__main__":
>     a=SomeClass()
>     a.SNC.SomeNestedClassMethod()
> 
> 
> I pretty much stole this idea from wxWindows.
> 
> Larry Bates
> Syscon, Inc.
> 
> 
> 
>>Please see the following example. Is there any other way to access
>>SomeAttribute from the nested class, without having to use the actual
>>name of the outer class?
>>
>>
>>class SomeClass:
>>     SomeAttribute = 1
>>
>>     class SomeNestedClass:
>>         SomeOtherAttribute = 2
>>
>>         def SomeNestedClassMethod(cls):
>>             print "%s%s" % (
>>                 SomeClass.SomeAttribute
>>                 cls.SomeOtherAttribute,
>>                 )
>>         SomeNestedClassMethod = classmethod(SomeNestedClassMethod)
>>
>>Thanx
> 
> 
> 


From NAIGIMSESRIMAIL at gims.com  Thu Apr  1 05:11:05 2004
From: NAIGIMSESRIMAIL at gims.com (GroupShield for Exchange (ESRIMAIL))
Date: Thu, 1 Apr 2004 12:11:05 +0200 
Subject: ALERT -  GroupShield ticket number OB69_1080814264_ESRIMAIL_3 was
	generated
Message-ID: <B06B8FEF47ACD7119E720040F428459102124D13@ESRIMAIL>

Action Taken:
The message was blocked because of its subject.

To:
python-list at python.org <python-list at python.org>

From:
Peter Maas <fpetermaas at netscape.net>

Sent:
-1543787520,29628369

Subject:
Re: test for nan

Attachment Details:-

Attachment Name: N/A
File: Infected.msg
Infected? No
Repaired? No
Blocked? Yes
Deleted? No
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From Mike at DeleteThis.Geary.com  Mon Apr  5 15:56:14 2004
From: Mike at DeleteThis.Geary.com (Michael Geary)
Date: Mon, 5 Apr 2004 12:56:14 -0700
Subject: Using python23 to develop an extension for an application that
	has python22 embedded
References: <aoa370h2r58lgb00jn9o1nfpg2titdgoss@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <1073eeubflmchd5@corp.supernews.com>

John Underwood wrote:
> Can I use python23_d and python23 to develop an extension for a
> commercial application uses python22.dll? (Providing that I do not use
> any new features found only in 2.3.)
>
> I would bulld version 2.2 but I am having trouble doing this with
> Visual Studio .NET Standard. (There is a well documented problem with
> version 2.2 (involving largeint.h) and VS.NET but none of the
> solutions that I found have worked.)
>
> On the other hand, I have successfully built release and debug
> versions of pythoncore with VS.NET.

Why don't you just install the binary version of 2.2? That would be easier.
You can have 2.2 and 2.3 installed on the same machine with no problem.

http://www.python.org/2.2.3/

If 2.3 is the version you use most often, you may want to reinstall it after
installing 2.2, so that your Windows file associations point to it. You can
just reinstall 2.3 on top of your previous 2.3 installation. (Or maybe
there's an easier way to do this.)

-Mike




From eriko at droakekwoakers.nl  Tue Apr  6 04:11:09 2004
From: eriko at droakekwoakers.nl (Erik Oomen)
Date: Tue, 06 Apr 2004 10:11:09 +0200
Subject: Does Python compete with Java?
References: <8b336527.0404051337.51bb4a1b@posting.google.com>
	<1073su4etm95p35@news.supernews.com>
	<roy-094613.21022405042004@reader1.panix.com>
Message-ID: <c4told$hv9$1@news5.tilbu1.nb.home.nl>

Roy Smith wrote:

> They don't have one for Python, but I expect it would be something like
> this:
> 
> You create a Foot object and call its shoot() method.  The bullet makes
> a hole in your foot, but by that time you've gotten dragged into a huge
> flamewar about the relative merits of spaces vs. tabs for indentation
> and barely notice the pain.

Found this one at news.admin.net-abuse.email

Python
You shoot yourself in the foot and everything goes so smoothly that you
go ahead to to shoot yourself in the other foot then your legs, then
your torso and then your head. Problem solved.



From newsgroups at jhrothjr.com  Wed Apr  7 19:57:26 2004
From: newsgroups at jhrothjr.com (John Roth)
Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2004 19:57:26 -0400
Subject: Dynamic creation of an object instance of a class by name
References: <10f99b0f.0404070656.5960e2c8@posting.google.com><tyfk70rx044.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
	<mailman.435.1081378579.20120.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <10795f3hoj37292@news.supernews.com>


"Andre Meyer" <meyer at acm.org> wrote in message
news:mailman.435.1081378579.20120.python-list at python.org...
> Right, ok, well, I do not assume to know what classes can be instantiated,
thus
> anything like accessing globals() is not likely to help, sorry. The eval()
> version works pretty ok so far. I am develpoing a module of which other
people
> can make use of by developing their own subclasses, but they need to be
> instantiated by my code. Eval() does the trick for me or is there a better
way,
> assuming you do not need to know which class it might be beforehand?
> btw I LOVE dynamicity... ;-)
>
> kind regards
> Andre

As long as you know where the class is (and I presume you do,
since eval() is working), you can use getattr() to find the class,
and then instantiate it the usual way. It's a good deal faster.

The thing to remember is that eval() is not magic: it still needs
to find the class you're referencing by the usual lookup path.

For example, if you know it's in the current module, you
could say:

obj = getattr(globals(), "theClass")()

If it's in another module, then the incantation
becomes:

obj = getattr(module, "theClass")()

The moral of the story is that you do have to know where
the class object resides.

John Roth
>
>




From hungjunglu at yahoo.com  Fri Apr 30 14:17:59 2004
From: hungjunglu at yahoo.com (Hung Jung Lu)
Date: 30 Apr 2004 11:17:59 -0700
Subject: Is classless worth consideration
References: <g9k090lhocd1nbd7g230br6ooub113hjt6@4ax.com>
	<69cbbef2.0404290259.fd8d71c@posting.google.com>
	<MbWdnTRxROYvZg3dRVn-uw@powergate.ca>
	<69cbbef2.0404291209.7a98a799@posting.google.com>
	<boydnb9qfrqWJQzdRVn-gw@powergate.ca>
	<8ef9bea6.0404292307.66b78b83@posting.google.com>
	<84Kdnfu3OoN4oA_dRVn-vg@powergate.ca>
Message-ID: <8ef9bea6.0404301017.575c91d7@posting.google.com>

Peter Hansen <peter at engcorp.com> wrote in message news:<84Kdnfu3OoN4oA_dRVn-vg at powergate.ca>...
> Hung Jung Lu wrote:
> > I have also pointed out previously that
> > Python uses 5 devices where prototype-based needs only one: (a) class,
> > (b) instance, (c) module, (d) metaclass, (e) scope. If this is not
> > hideously baroque, then, Houston, we've got a problem. If you can
> > really think outside the box, you'd pitch in also: (f) aspect.
> 
> Well, (c) module is merely a packaging technique, not anything
> to do specifically with OOP, so it shouldn't appear in a list
> of "what do you think makes Python's OO model hideously baroque".

Are you sure about that? Have you seen how people put an class
instance in sys.modules so they could use it as a module (an old trick
by now)? Have you seen people asking __call__() to make modules
callable, and/or property getters/setters for modules? "Merely a
packaging technique"? Have you seen people using modules as
singletons? Do you realize that "from ... import ..." is nothing but a
form of module inheritance? Think again. Let me say it again: think
outside the box. It's hard to do when you are inside the box. But try.
Try hard.

> Scope doesn't quite seem to fit in this either, but not
> being a theoretician I'll just leave the discussion at
> this point 

I am sorry, there is no theory to do here. Check out the Io language.

Code factorization is carried out not when two pieces of code are
identical, but when they are analogous enough. By tearing things apart
and claiming that they are different and should not be unified, it
only goes to show you are still inside a box. All the 6 devices I have
pointed out can be reduced to one single device: object. Matter of
fact, many of them are already unified in a prototype-based language
like Io, no theory there. Why have 6 devices and all kinds of
redundancies/inconsistencies/hacks, when you can do it all with just
one? As the other poster said: "hideously baroque" it is.

regards,

Hung Jung


From peter at engcorp.com  Mon Apr  5 13:21:34 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Mon, 05 Apr 2004 13:21:34 -0400
Subject: design by contract versus doctest
In-Reply-To: <40718ddb$0$5071$4d4ebb8e@news.nl.uu.net>
References: <407174ea$0$5066$4d4ebb8e@news.nl.uu.net>
	<T7Sdnf23r-IZGOzdRVn-sA@powergate.ca>
	<40718ddb$0$5071$4d4ebb8e@news.nl.uu.net>
Message-ID: <IdadnapeW8YCCOzdRVn-jw@powergate.ca>

aku wrote:

> On 2004-04-05, Peter Hansen <peter at engcorp.com> wrote:
> 
>> aku wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Isn't it so, that by applying DBC, a lot of unittests can be
>>>made redundant?
>>
>> How would you propose verifying that your code will work if you
>> don't run tests before you ship?
> 
> 
> in debugging mode you obviously have to ensure that the caller
> makes sure that all preconditions are met...then - by contract - 
> the postconditions are met on returning from the function.

What is "debugging mode"?

You aren't actually talking about _manual_ testing of some
kind, are you?  If not, I don't understand how you can be
talking about automated testing, yet claiming that unit
tests are redundant.  Or are you simply saying that proper
use of DBC can somewhat _reduce_ the number of unit tests
you have to write?  (In which case I ask how do you propose
to verify that your precondition contracts are written properly?)

-Peter


From Chuck at spears.com  Fri Apr 16 13:37:32 2004
From: Chuck at spears.com (Chuck Spears)
Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2004 13:37:32 -0400
Subject: Best IDE?
References: <c5bg1k$25vq$1@news.wplus.net>	<4ace7f9f.0404111147.3120288a@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.543.1081755983.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<Z2Wec.22209$8V.18569@newssvr27.news.prodigy.com>
	<ad2a0ff0939b8226ed28f707af136431@news.teranews.com>
Message-ID: <ce6080lqkp4t6d8i6vu7hq91k5didmgkck@4ax.com>

>CodeWright, now available from Borland.  AFAIK, it's feature
>compatible with Visual SlickEdit, though I think it's available 
>only on multiple Windows platforms.  ;-)
>    --dang

Borland is killing off this project.


From peter9547 at btinternet.com  Thu Apr  1 12:33:24 2004
From: peter9547 at btinternet.com (Peter MacKenzie)
Date: Thu, 1 Apr 2004 17:33:24 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: emergent/swarm/evolutionary systems etc
References: <c4aeq8$92a$1@hercules.btinternet.com>
	<c4btjr$8il$1@titan.btinternet.com>
	<c4ccs2$l9j$1@news.service.uci.edu>
Message-ID: <c4hjp4$dg6$1@sparta.btinternet.com>

Sorry for the long response time.  I've been busy, and my brain has been
clogged up with a cold and hayfever.

Although I'm sure your instructions on creating files etc are perfectly
valid, I lack the basic grammatical knowledge to make use of them (I really
am very new to programing).  I'll have to wait for my skills to catch up
with my ideas before I can move on, but that must wait until July, as I have
impending exams that demand much of my focus.

In addition to exams, I also must start a dissertation in July for my
geography hon B.Sc.  Although I should ideally have found a subject two
months ago, I've so far lacked any truly appealing project ideas (much to
the consternation of my advisor).  Since reading 'Emergence', by Steven
Johnson, and conducting prelimenary research on the matter, I've settled on
the dissertation title: "Emergence theory as an approach to city design".

To this goal, I'd like to use computer modeling to simulate ways in which
the spatial distribution of indicator phenomena in cities (land price/use,
crime, demographic composition etc) is affected by bottom-up, local area
rules.  Given that I have only a basic foothold on the language, does
anybody foresee difficulties for me learning enough to impliment simple and
experimentally flexible sim-city style simulations (minus fancy graphics and
llamas) in no more than 2 months (to allow for time to conduct actual
experiments + field observations etc)?  I would be able to engender aid from
various staff, and the university library should carry titles on the
subject.  Failing that, I could do it the old fashioned way and buy a how-to
book, but I'd like some opinions on the difficulty of the goal from people
who've already trancended the non-programmer/programmer barrier.




From doug at doug-.com  Thu Apr  8 22:38:11 2004
From: doug at doug-.com (Doug)
Date: Thu, 08 Apr 2004 21:38:11 -0500
Subject: How to define an Interface in Python 2.2.2?
In-Reply-To: <mailman.473.1081469236.20120.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.473.1081469236.20120.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <qbWdnYxdLqAIkevdRVn-jg@comcast.com>

Boo Yah wrote:
> Does Python 2.2.2 support Interface (as PHP 5 does) ?
> 
> If so, how can i define it in Py 2.2.2?

Python doesn't directly support interfaces.
What most people for an interface is to create a class where
the methods raise a NotImplementedError. For example:

class MyInterface:
     def method1():
         raise NotImplementedError
     def method2():
         raise NotImplementedError

class MyClass (MyInterface):
     "implements MyInterface"
     def method1():
         some code here...
     def method2():
         some code here...

But see this page for some attempts at creating interfaces
for Python: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/moinmoin/MetaClasses


From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Sun Apr 11 23:29:55 2004
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 11 Apr 2004 23:29:55 -0400
Subject: Python OS
References: <107j4eu6ffn2c68@corp.supernews.com>
	<107j8elr1m3tc65@news.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <c5d2fj$i0d$1@panix1.panix.com>

In article <107j8elr1m3tc65 at news.supernews.com>,
John Roth <newsgroups at jhrothjr.com> wrote:
>"A Evans" <ae> wrote in message news:107j4eu6ffn2c68 at corp.supernews.com...
>> 
>> A python NewBie - Man I hate that term does anyone else
>
>Likewise. I prefer novice. I consider Newbie to be patronizing.

We could call them penitents.
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

Why is this newsgroup different from all other newsgroups?


From herrn at gmx.net  Tue Apr  6 16:23:16 2004
From: herrn at gmx.net (Marco Herrn)
Date: 6 Apr 2004 20:23:16 GMT
Subject: regex help for a newbie
References: <c4rkh6$2kr4f5$2@ID-165840.news.uni-berlin.de>
	<yibn05p4oi3.fsf@coxeter.math.toronto.edu>
Message-ID: <c4v3jk$2nn12a$1@ID-165840.news.uni-berlin.de>

On 2004-04-06, marco <marco at reimeika.ca> wrote:
> Marco Herrn <herrn at gmx.net> writes:
>> the parts in a recursive function. So the thing I want to achieve here
>> is to extract %(BBB%(CCC)BBB) and %(DDD).
>
> p1, p2 = "aaa%(BBB%(CCC)BBB)aaa%(DDD)aaa".split("aaa")[1:-1]

Doesn't help, since I do not know that there is the string "aaa". It was
just an example. I do not know any of the strings/characters. The only
thing I know is that a percent sign indicates that the content inside
the following parentheses is an expression that has to be evaluated.

I need to do this by real parsing. In fact the solution from Diez isn't
enough. I will have to write a much more flexible parser, as I realized.

Diez mentioned spark as a parser. I also found yappy, which is a parser
generator. I have not much experience with parsers. What is the
difference between these two? When should one use the one, when the
other?

Marco
-- 
Marco Herrn             herrn at gmx.net
(GnuPG/PGP-signed and crypted mail preferred)
Key ID: 0x94620736



From imbosol at aerojockey.invalid  Wed Apr 28 02:18:41 2004
From: imbosol at aerojockey.invalid (Carl Banks)
Date: Wed, 28 Apr 2004 06:18:41 GMT
Subject: Is Perl *that* good?
References: <c6ich0$c5mee$1@ID-205437.news.uni-berlin.de>
	<iL3jc.232$Yc.2330@news4.e.nsc.no>
	<108q51j4dscn7dc@corp.supernews.com>
	<knbjc.267$id.3998@news2.e.nsc.no>
	<pan.2004.04.26.20.50.19.843510@hotmail.com>
	<87fzaqmm8t.fsf@strauser.com>
	<38ec68a6.0404262308.50029919@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.49.1083084698.25742.python-list@python.org>
	<cbfb92ae.0404272203.2ff42c98@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <51Ijc.2549$ZD3.1367@fe1.columbus.rr.com>

Wallclimber wrote:
> 
> 
>>     Asun> Probably the only time I would reach for Perl rather than for
>>     Asun> python is when I knew a task involved a lot of regex (and no
>>     Asun> object orientation).
>> 
>> Why?  I write non-object-oriented Python code all the time.  To make the
>> Python/Perl switch you'd still have to shift your mental gears to deal with
>> a different syntax, different way of getting at and using functionality that
>> isn't builtin, etc.  Even with lots of regex fiddling to do, I think the
>> extra overhead of using regexes in Python would be swamped by the other
>> differences.  In addition, as Jamie Zawinski suggests, regular expressions
>> are not always the best choice.
> 
> I have to agree with the original poster. My *only* complaint about
> Python are not regex search, but regex search and replace operations.
> Perl   : s =~ s/(\w+)\s*=\s*(\d+)/$2 <= $1/g;
> Python : regex.sub(s, "(\w+)\s*=\s*)\d+)", (lambda m: m.group(2)+" <=
> "+m.group(1)))
> 
> I didn't try this out so there might be some syntax problems in there,
> but you get the idea. Is there a 'nicer' way to do this in python?
> Using 'group' and lambda functions is really quite messy. (An,
> obviously, in real life usage, the replacemant function can be much
> bigger...)
> 
> I'd be most grateful if somebody could show me a cleaner way to do
> this.


Define the following helper function (mrd stands for match replace
dict, I wanted something small, call it what you want):

    def mrd(m):
        d = {}
        for i,g in enumerate(m.groups()):
            d[str(i+1)] = g
        return d


Then your regex becomes:

    regex.sub(s, "(\w+)\s*=\s*)\d+)", "%(2)s <= %(1)s" % mrd(m))


Were you aware that, when a dict appears on the right side of string
interpolation operator %, you can reference values in the dict by
name?  That's what the above trick does.  Not quite down to Perl
minimalism, but clean.


-- 
CARL BANKS                      http://www.aerojockey.com/software
"If you believe in yourself, drink your school, stay on drugs, and
don't do milk, you can get work." 
          -- Parody of Mr. T from a Robert Smigel Cartoon


From arifi at tnn.net  Tue Apr 13 04:43:28 2004
From: arifi at tnn.net (Arifi Koseoglu)
Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2004 11:43:28 +0300
Subject: Newbie Q: Extra spaces after conversion from utf-8 to utf-16-le
	?
References: <915dc3ae.0404102233.4248dc9a@posting.google.com>
	<c5c1u5$j09$1@news.service.uci.edu>
Message-ID: <c5g97h$19b5p$1@ID-213322.news.uni-berlin.de>

Many thanks Josiah,

Reading and writing in binary form did the trick.

Very much appreciated.
Cheers
-arifi

"Josiah Carlson" <jcarlson at uci.edu> wrote in message
news:c5c1u5$j09$1 at news.service.uci.edu...
> > I am an absolute Newbie who has done a good amount of googling with
> > the keywords utf-8, utf-16, python, convert and has reasoned that the
> > following code could be used to convert a utf-8 text file to a
> > utf-16-le (I believe this is what Windows uses for Unicode):
> >
> > s1 = open("utf8_file_generated_with_perl.txt", "r").read()
> > s2 = unicode(s1, "utf-8")
> > s3 = s2.encode("utf-16-le")
> > open ("new_file_supposedly_in_utf16le", "w").write(s3)
> >
> > Well, this code kind of works (meaning I do not get any errors), but
> > the produced file contains an extra space after every character (l i k
> > e  t h i s) and Windows believes this is an ANSI (i.e. non-unicode
> > file). Clearly, what I think is working is actually not.
>
> For standard /ASCII/ characters, when encoded with utf-16-le, there
> exists a 'null' character trailing every input character that exists in
> standard ASCII...
>     >>> s = unicode("hello", "ascii")
>     >>> s
>     u'hello'
>     >>> s2 = s.encode("utf-16-le")
>     >>> s2
>     'h\x00e\x00l\x00l\x00o\x00'
>
> Generally, "Windows" makes no assumption about encoding and always
> assumes ASCII.  What many (not all) systems do to tell the app what
> encoding is being used, is place what is known as a 'BOM' at the
> beginning of the file.  Check unicode.org for more information.
>
> You will also likely find opening files as 'binary' in Windows, when
> working with unicode, goes a long ways towards making correct output.
>
>   - Josiah




From mark at prothon.org  Tue Apr 27 00:01:17 2004
From: mark at prothon.org (Mark Hahn)
Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2004 21:01:17 -0700
Subject: What is good about Prothon?
References: <bniq80hiib0gauiltuntk9jvia2getbnj4@4ax.com>
	<mailman.31.1083031283.25742.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <hWkjc.635$Qy.192@fed1read04>


"Mike C. Fletcher" <mcfletch at rogers.com> wrote...

>             I'd want clarification of how to store a reference to
>             another object's (bound) method (which is *extremely* common
>             in Python code for storing, e.g. callbacks)
>     * I really dislike the :( ): function definition notation,
>       "Readability Counts".  Why clutter the proposal with that?
>     * I'm neutral on the with: stuff, I'd much prefer a real block
>       mechanism similar to Ruby with (if we're using implicit targets),
>       the ability to specify the .x target for the block

For what it's worth, you are basicly in agreement with the current proposals
for Prothon.




From mark at deverter.net  Thu Apr  8 15:11:01 2004
From: mark at deverter.net (Mark d.)
Date: Thu, 08 Apr 2004 19:11:01 GMT
Subject: killing process
Message-ID: <9thdc.4400$jR6.3088@fe2.texas.rr.com>


I have been trying to make this function run that is triggered from a 
button on a Python rendered webpage.  Clicking the button gets a 
processID, sends a kill command for the process and then generates a 
simple web page that displays the processID but the 'kill' command is 
not carried out.

def restart():
     pid =  os.popen('pidof myProcess').read().strip()
     os.popen('kill -9 %s' %pid, 'w').close()
     print CGI()
     print HTML(
         HEAD('restart', None),
         BODY(None,
             'process id:',
             pid
         ))
     return 1

This works just fine in the interpreter.
Anyone have any ideas what I am overlooking?

Cheers,
Mark d.



From junkmail at solumslekt.org  Mon Apr 26 04:28:46 2004
From: junkmail at solumslekt.org (Leif B. Kristensen)
Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2004 10:28:46 +0200
Subject: How's ruby compare to it older brother python
References: <c6ich0$c5mee$1@ID-205437.news.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <iL3jc.232$Yc.2330@news4.e.nsc.no>

Hunn E. Balsiche wrote:

> in term of its OO features, syntax consistencies, ease of use, and
> their development progress. I have not use python but heard about it
> quite often; and ruby, is it mature enough to be use for developing
> serious application, e.g web application as it has not many features
> in it yet.
> 
> I've given up on Perl for its ugly syntax and it is not the easiest
> language to learn. How about PHP?

It really depends on what you'll want to do. PHP is a great language for
getting dynamic HTML pages up and running quickly. Perl is great for
its string-handling abilities. (On my Web pages, I actually call a Perl
script from PHP precisely for this reason.)

However, both PHP and Perl can be very unwieldy for large projects. I'm
a newcomer to Python, but it seems to scale much better than the other
P-languages.

For a first tour of Python, I'll suggest that you read the excellent
tutorial by the language's author, Guido van Rossum:

http://www.python.org/doc/current/tut/

regards,
-- 
Leif Biberg Kristensen
http://solumslekt.org/
Validare necesse est


From ivan at yahoo.com  Fri Apr 23 14:24:08 2004
From: ivan at yahoo.com (Ivan Lima)
Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2004 18:24:08 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: NumPy argsort question
Message-ID: <slrnc8intj.bvb.ivan@moorea.whoi.edu>

  Hello,

  I have two 2-dimensional arrays A and B. I want to sort A along its
  columns (axis=1) and then sort B along its columns in the same order
  that A was sorted. 

  I tried:

        sorted_A = sort(A,1)
        sorted_B = take(B, argsort(A,1), 1)

  but my last statement returns an array with an extra dimension. If A
  is a 2x3 matrix I get a 2x2x3 matrix. What am I missing?

  Thanks a lot,
   
-- 
Ivan Lima - idl764 at yahoo dot com


From jcarlson at uci.edu  Sat Apr 10 16:13:25 2004
From: jcarlson at uci.edu (Josiah Carlson)
Date: Sat, 10 Apr 2004 13:13:25 -0700
Subject: Wrapper round x86 Assembler
In-Reply-To: <107g87b2k9cuoa7@corp.supernews.com>
References: <8089854e.0404082353.7bf163a2@posting.google.com>
	<4dKdnQlIXMIXIevdRVn-gg@powergate.ca>
	<8089854e.0404100204.504186a0@posting.google.com>
	<kcWdnaFpw_PvdurdRVn-sA@powergate.ca>
	<107g87b2k9cuoa7@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <c59knj$k08$1@news.service.uci.edu>

> On modern CPUs, unless you really know what you're doing, hand-written
> assembly code is likely to be slower than code generated by a good
> optimizing C/C++ compiler. If your assembly code is at all straightforward,
> it will definitely be slower than compiled code, because you'll be stalling
> the CPU all over the place when one instruction waits for the results of a
> previous one.

Yes and no.  With the existance of the Tomasulo algorithm for register 
renaming and out-of-order execution, you can pick up quite a bit of the 
ILP without even programming it that way.  Of course, there is only so 
much the Tomasulo algorithm can do for crappy assembly.

  - Josiah



From Mike at DeleteThis.Geary.com  Mon Apr 19 11:50:08 2004
From: Mike at DeleteThis.Geary.com (Michael Geary)
Date: Mon, 19 Apr 2004 08:50:08 -0700
Subject: equivalent to Java's toString()?
References: <mailman.762.1082385711.20120.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1087t9hc5vl833b@corp.supernews.com>

Gabriel Cooper wrote:
> What is the python equivalent to java's toString()?
>
> When debugging I want to be able to basically be able to do this:
>
>     print MyObjectInstance
>
> or
>     print str(MyObjectInstance)
>
> and have it print out formatted output along the lines of:
>
>     Object properties: Red=0 Yellow=0 Blue=255

Define a __str__ method in your class. It works just like toString() in Java
and JavaScript:

>>> class MyTest( object ):
...     def __str__( self ):
...         return 'My Test!'
...
>>> test = MyTest()
>>> print test
My Test!
>>>

Also see __repr__ for a related method.

-Mike




From peter.schwalm at epost.de  Wed Apr  7 21:34:07 2004
From: peter.schwalm at epost.de (Peter Schwalm)
Date: 7 Apr 2004 18:34:07 -0700
Subject: Customizing the python search path depending on source directory
References: <5cf809e9.0404061853.41cd3c85@posting.google.com>
	<BbudnT8dYIUS8u7dRVn-vw@powergate.ca>
	<5cf809e9.0404070452.643b7053@posting.google.com>
	<hsWdncv_b86aY-7d4p2dnA@powergate.ca>
Message-ID: <5cf809e9.0404071734.26f1078a@posting.google.com>

Peter Hansen <peter at engcorp.com> wrote in message news:<hsWdncv_b86aY-7d4p2dnA at powergate.ca>...
> Peter Schwalm wrote:
> 
> > Peter Hansen <peter at engcorp.com> wrote in message news:> >
> > Thank you for your answer. But I'm afraid it's not the source
> > directory but the current working directory. You can see the
> > difference if you copy the passage
> > 
> >     "for ix1, p1 in enumerate(sys.path): print "%02.02d: %s" % (ix1,
> > p1)"
> > 
> > to a "normal script". If you start that "normal script" from a
> > directory other than the source directory, you can see that both
> > directories are included in sys.path. If you run this code inside
> > sitecustomize.py this is not the case.
> 
> On the contrary.  When I start that from another directory which
> is *not* in the path, I do not see that directory in the sys.path
> at all, but merely the directory in which the script itself is
> stored.  This is the defined behaviour of the Python sys.path
> stuff and you must be misinterpreting something.
> 
> The current directory is *not* added to sys.path, unless it
> just happens that the main script is in the current directory.
> 
Again, thank you for your answer. 
This answer lets me suspect that you have a different version of
python installed. Mine is 2.3.2 for win32 (activepython).

To show you what I observe I have modified my "sitecustomize.py"
slightly and have copied the unmodified text do script "test1.py"

The source for both looks as follows:

#-------------------------------------------------------------------------
import sys
import os
print "--->", __file__, "..."
print 64 * "-"
print "python-version=", sys.version
try:
    print "argv=", sys.argv
except AttributeError:
    print ""
    print "sys.argv does still not exist!"

try:
    print "sys.modules[\"__main__\"]=",
sys.modules["__main__"].__file__
except AttributeError:
    print ""
    print "sys.modules[\"__main__\"].__file__ does still not exist"

# ... shows that source directory is still not in sys.path
print "sys.path="
for ix1, p1 in enumerate(sys.path):    print "%02.02d: %s" % (ix1, p1)

print 64 * "-"
print "<---", __file__, "..."
#-------------------------------------------------------------------------

Here is the output from test1.py when run it's own source directory:

E:\temp>test1.py
---> C:\Python23\lib\sitecustomize.pyc ...
----------------------------------------------------------------
python-version= 2.3.2 (#49, Oct 24 2003, 13:37:57) [MSC v.1200 32 bit
(Intel)]
argv=
sys.argv does still not exist!
sys.modules["__main__"]=
sys.modules["__main__"].__file__ does still not exist
sys.path=
00: E:\temp
01: d:\d\d8\AFP\r01\python
02: C:\WINNT\System32\python23.zip
03: C:\Python23\Lib\site-packages\Pythonwin
04: C:\Python23\Lib\site-packages\win32
05: C:\Python23\Lib\site-packages\win32\lib
06: C:\Python23\Lib\site-packages
07: C:\Python23\DLLs
08: C:\Python23\lib
09: C:\Python23\lib\plat-win
10: C:\Python23\lib\lib-tk
11: C:\Python23
12: C:\Python23\lib\site-packages\PIL
----------------------------------------------------------------
<--- C:\Python23\lib\sitecustomize.pyc ...
---> E:\temp\test1.py ...
----------------------------------------------------------------
python-version= 2.3.2 (#49, Oct 24 2003, 13:37:57) [MSC v.1200 32 bit
(Intel)]
argv= ['E:\\temp\\test1.py']
sys.modules["__main__"]= E:\temp\test1.py
sys.path=
00: E:\temp
01: E:\temp
02: d:\d\d8\AFP\r01\python
03: C:\WINNT\System32\python23.zip
04: C:\Python23\Lib\site-packages\Pythonwin
05: C:\Python23\Lib\site-packages\win32
06: C:\Python23\Lib\site-packages\win32\lib
07: C:\Python23\Lib\site-packages
08: C:\Python23\DLLs
09: C:\Python23\lib
10: C:\Python23\lib\plat-win
11: C:\Python23\lib\lib-tk
12: C:\Python23
13: C:\Python23\lib\site-packages\PIL
----------------------------------------------------------------
<--- E:\temp\test1.py ...

E:\temp>

And here is the output from test1.py when run from a different
directory (from subdirectory sub1):


E:\temp\sub1>..\test1.py
---> C:\Python23\lib\sitecustomize.pyc ...
----------------------------------------------------------------
python-version= 2.3.2 (#49, Oct 24 2003, 13:37:57) [MSC v.1200 32 bit
(Intel)]
argv=
sys.argv does still not exist!
sys.modules["__main__"]=
sys.modules["__main__"].__file__ does still not exist
sys.path=
00: E:\temp\sub1
01: d:\d\d8\AFP\r01\python
02: C:\WINNT\System32\python23.zip
03: C:\Python23\Lib\site-packages\Pythonwin
04: C:\Python23\Lib\site-packages\win32
05: C:\Python23\Lib\site-packages\win32\lib
06: C:\Python23\Lib\site-packages
07: C:\Python23\DLLs
08: C:\Python23\lib
09: C:\Python23\lib\plat-win
10: C:\Python23\lib\lib-tk
11: C:\Python23
12: C:\Python23\lib\site-packages\PIL
----------------------------------------------------------------
<--- C:\Python23\lib\sitecustomize.pyc ...
---> E:\temp\test1.py ...
----------------------------------------------------------------
python-version= 2.3.2 (#49, Oct 24 2003, 13:37:57) [MSC v.1200 32 bit
(Intel)]
argv= ['E:\\temp\\test1.py']
sys.modules["__main__"]= E:\temp\test1.py
sys.path=
00: E:\temp
01: E:\temp\sub1
02: d:\d\d8\AFP\r01\python
03: C:\WINNT\System32\python23.zip
04: C:\Python23\Lib\site-packages\Pythonwin
05: C:\Python23\Lib\site-packages\win32
06: C:\Python23\Lib\site-packages\win32\lib
07: C:\Python23\Lib\site-packages
08: C:\Python23\DLLs
09: C:\Python23\lib
10: C:\Python23\lib\plat-win
11: C:\Python23\lib\lib-tk
12: C:\Python23
13: C:\Python23\lib\site-packages\PIL
----------------------------------------------------------------
<--- E:\temp\test1.py ...

E:\temp\sub1>

As you can see in the second output, the source directory is *not*
included in sys.path during the processing of sitecustomize.py, but
only during the processing of the "normal script" test1.py.

Does the output look different if you run these programs in your
environment?

Thank you
Peter


From anton at vredegoor.doge.nl  Thu Apr 15 09:42:30 2004
From: anton at vredegoor.doge.nl (Anton Vredegoor)
Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2004 15:42:30 +0200
Subject: Difficulty finding Python employer
Message-ID: <407e9164$0$122$3a628fcd@reader3.nntp.hccnet.nl>

Will send no resume. Can't stand hype. Must telecommute.

Anton


From nicolas.lehuen at thecrmcompany.com  Wed Apr 21 05:16:07 2004
From: nicolas.lehuen at thecrmcompany.com (Nicolas Lehuen)
Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2004 11:16:07 +0200
Subject: Python 2.3.3 super() behaviour 
Message-ID: <40863bd7$0$25528$afc38c87@news.easynet.fr>

Hi,

I hope this is not a FAQ, but I have trouble understanding the behaviour of
the super() built-in function. I've read the excellent book 'Python in a
Nutshell' which explains this built-in function on pages 89-90. Based on the
example on page 90, I wrote this test code :

class A(object):
    def test(self):
        print 'A'

class B(object):
    def test(self):
        print 'B'

class C(A,B):
    def test(self):
        super(C,self).test()
        print 'C'

print C.__mro__
c=C()
c.test()

The output is :
(<class '__main__.C'>, <class '__main__.A'>, <class '__main__.B'>, <type
'object'>)
A
C

Whereas I was expecting :
(<class '__main__.C'>, <class '__main__.A'>, <class '__main__.B'>, <type
'object'>)
A
B
C

Was I wrong to expect this (based on what I've read ?)

Regards,
Nicolas






From arigo at tunes.org  Sat Apr  3 13:48:04 2004
From: arigo at tunes.org (Armin Rigo)
Date: Sat, 3 Apr 2004 18:48:04 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Python is faster than C
Message-ID: <406F0907.96F37EA1@tunes.org>

Hi!

This is a rant against the optimization trend of the Python interpreter.

Sorting a list of 100000 integers in random order takes:

* 0.75 seconds in Python 2.1
* 0.51 seconds in Python 2.2
* 0.46 seconds in Python 2.3

Tim Peters did a great job optimizing list.sort().  If I try with a
simple, non-stable pure Python quicksort implementation, in Python 2.3:

* 4.83 seconds
* 0.21 seconds with Psyco

First step towards world domination of high-level languages :-)

The reason that Psyco manages to outperform the C implementation is not
that gcc is a bad compiler (it is about 10 times better than Psyco's).
The reason is that the C implementation must use a generic '<' operator
to compare elements, while the Psyco version quickly figures out that it
can expect to find ints in the list; it still has to check this
assumption, but this is cheap and then the comparison is done with a
single machine instruction.

Similarily, here are some results about the heapq module, which is
rewritten in C in the CVS tree for Python 2.4:

    l = [random.random() for x in range(200000)]
    heapq.heapify(l)

This code executes on my laptop in:

* 1.96 seconds on Python 2.3 (pure Python)
* 0.18 seconds on Python 2.4cvs (rewritten in C)
* 0.16 seconds on Python 2.3 with Psyco

So this is not so much a plug for Psyco as a rant against the current
trend of rewriting standard modules in C.  Premature optimization and
all that.

Worse, and more importantly, the optimization starts to become visible
to the programmer.  Iterators, for example, are great in limited cases
but I consider their introduction a significant complication in the
language; before, you could expect that some function from which you
would expect a sequence returned a list.  Python was all lists and
dicts, with dicts used as namespaces here and there.  Nowadays you have
to be careful.  Moreover, it is harder to explain:

>>> zip([1,2,3], [4,5,6])     # easy to understand and explain
[(1, 4), (2, 5), (3, 6)]

>>> enumerate([6,7,8,9])         # uh ?
<enumerate object at 0x401a102c>

I know you can always do list(_).  My point is that this is a
user-visible optimization.  enumerate() should return a normal list, and
it should be someone else's job to ensure that it is correctly optimized
away if possible (and I'm not even talking about Psyco, it could be done
in the current Python implementation with a reasonable amount of
effort).


Protesting-ly yours,

Armin


From nmkolev at uni-bonn.de  Sun Apr  4 06:48:28 2004
From: nmkolev at uni-bonn.de (Nickolay Kolev)
Date: 4 Apr 2004 10:48:28 GMT
Subject: =?utf-8?q?Working_with_a_list_in_a_more_=E2=80=9Epythonic?=
	=?utf-8?b?4oCcIHdheQ==?=
Message-ID: <20040404124833458+0200@news.rhrz.uni-bonn.de>

Hi all,

I would like to find a more pythonic way of solving the following:

Having a string consisting of letters only, find out the total sound 
score of the string. The sound score is calculated as the sum of the 
transition scores between the characters in that string. The transition 
scores are stored in a 26 x 26 matrix. I.e. the transition A -> F would 
have the score soundScoreMatrix[0][5].

I have come up with the following solution, but I hope some of you might 
suggest a more _functional_ (reduce and map) way of diong it.

n = 0           # the final score of the string

for i in range(len(phrase)):
	try:
		n += soundScoreMatrix[ord(x[i]) - 65][ord(x[i + 1]) - 65]
	except IndexError:
		pass

I was thinking about using "reduce", but that would not work as the 
input and output of the function I would use are different (string input, 
integer output).

Many thanks in advance,
Nicky


From nospam at kochandreas.com  Sun Apr 25 11:35:39 2004
From: nospam at kochandreas.com (Andreas Koch)
Date: Sun, 25 Apr 2004 17:35:39 +0200
Subject: Andreas' practical language comparison
Message-ID: <c6glig$phm$07$4@news.t-online.com>

Hi all,

i started a little "practical language comparison" - practical
in the sense that i compare how actual distributions and versions
and their libraries (not abstract language specifications) solve small
test cases like the 8 queens problem.

Currently there are contributions for 17 different languages, and
none for Phyton (and Lisp. And Forth. And many others ).
If someone is interested in contributing a few implementations,
please have a look at:

http://www.kochandreas.com/home/language/lang.htm

and mail me your code snippets (or critics) or post them here.

                        thanks a lot,
-- 
                                   Andreas
He screamed: THIS IS SIG!


From kramakrishnan at novell.com  Thu Apr  8 12:07:13 2004
From: kramakrishnan at novell.com (Ramki)
Date: 8 Apr 2004 09:07:13 -0700
Subject: Distributing a Python based application on Linux
Message-ID: <98013c51.0404080807.6f08f1a3@posting.google.com>

Hi !!

I have written an install script to deploy some of my product rpms.
The install script does OS Version Check, OS Memory check, logging the
status of install into a log file amongst other things.

Now the size of my product rpms is around 3 MB. If I am to distribute
Python along with the install, it is taking around 12 MB totally (the
python gz tar is around 9 MB), which is not ideal.

Is there way I can avoid this by distributing only the bare minimum
Python related binary along with my rpms ?

Any help would be appreciated.

thanks,
Ram.


From Scott.Daniels at Acm.Org  Wed Apr 21 17:38:08 2004
From: Scott.Daniels at Acm.Org (Scott David Daniels)
Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2004 14:38:08 -0700
Subject: Optimizing a text statistics function
In-Reply-To: <c669k5$c52$07$1@news.t-online.com>
References: <c661pe$tie$1@f1node01.rhrz.uni-bonn.de>
	<c669k5$c52$07$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <4086efbc$1@nntp0.pdx.net>

Peter Otten wrote:
> Nickolay Kolev wrote:
Playing along, simply because it's fun.

> def main(filename):
>     ...

#>     words = file(filename).read().translate(tr).split()
#>     histogram = {}
#>     wordCount = len(words)
#>     for word in words:
#>         histogram[word] = histogram.get(word, 0) + 1

Better not to do several huge string allocs above (I suspect).
This method lets you to work on files too large to read into memory:

       wordCount = 0
       histogram = {}

       for line in file(filename):
           words = line.translate(tr).split()
           wordCount += len(words)
           for word in words:
               histogram[word] = histogram.get(word, 0) + 1

>     ...


- Scott David Daniels
Scott.Daniels at Acm.Org


From peter at engcorp.com  Thu Apr 29 09:08:25 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Thu, 29 Apr 2004 09:08:25 -0400
Subject: suggestions for using tuples instead of list (or vice versa)
In-Reply-To: <ylxi7lokk9ms$.dlg@thorstenkampe.de>
References: <ylxi7lokk9ms$.dlg@thorstenkampe.de>
Message-ID: <V9adnUkaFPnWYw3dRVn-gw@powergate.ca>

Thorsten Kampe wrote:

> I found out that I am rarely using tuples and almost always lists
> because of the more flexible usability of lists (methods, etc.)
> 
> To my knowledge, the only fundamental difference between tuples and
> lists is that tuples are immutable, so if this is correct, than list
> are a superset of tuples, meaning lists can do everything tuples can
> do and more.

Only tuples can be used as dictionary keys.

> Is there any advantage for using tuples? Are they "faster"? Consume
> less memory? 

Not appreciably so in most cases.  Certainly not enough to
be a factor in choosing which to use except perhaps in
very rare edge cases.

 > When is it better to use tuples instead of lists and when
> better to use lists instead of tuples?

The canonical answer (which some disagree with) is that you
should use tuples when you have a collection of different
types of items, such as a 'struct' in C would have.  Use
lists any other time you want a simple sequential collection
of items.

Use a list for effectively everything else, unless you need
an immutable (tuple) for a dictionary key.

One description of how to look at this that I've found helpful
is something along the lines of "if you can take a slice of
the data and consider it in the same way as the original,
then you should use a list".  For example, if you have a set
of fifteen objects over which you plan to iterate, you can
just as well iterate over the first five.  If, however, you
have a tuple of (year, month, day, hour, minute, second),
taking the first four items is quite a different thing than
taking all six of them.

-Peter


From johnbunderwood at yahoo.ca  Mon Apr  5 15:04:32 2004
From: johnbunderwood at yahoo.ca (John Underwood)
Date: Mon, 05 Apr 2004 15:04:32 -0400
Subject: Using python23 to develop an extension for an application that has
	python22 embedded
Message-ID: <aoa370h2r58lgb00jn9o1nfpg2titdgoss@4ax.com>

Can I use python23_d and python23 to develop an extension for a
commercial application uses python22.dll? (Providing that I do not use
any new features found only in 2.3.)

I would bulld version 2.2 but I am having trouble doing this with
Visual Studio .NET Standard. (There is a well documented problem with
version 2.2 (involving largeint.h) and VS.NET but none of the
solutions that I found have worked.)

On the other hand, I have successfully built release and debug
versions of pythoncore with VS.NET.

Thanks


From cjw at sympatico.ca  Sun Apr 11 22:44:45 2004
From: cjw at sympatico.ca (Colin J. Williams)
Date: Sun, 11 Apr 2004 22:44:45 -0400
Subject: Is boa-constructor dead?
In-Reply-To: <c58ugd$qar$1@online.de>
References: <d3c9c04.0404100442.2c1248a3@posting.google.com>
	<4077fa35$0$93590$cd19a363@news.wanadoo.nl>
	<c58ugd$qar$1@online.de>
Message-ID: <2onec.1722$2Z6.166963@news20.bellglobal.com>

Version 0.2.8 works well.  It is not completely bug free, but it is a 
powerful tool.

Colin W.

Uwe Grauer wrote:
> Andrei wrote:
> 
>> Mark Carter wrote on Saturday 10 April 2004 14:42:
>>
>>
>>> I noticed that boa-constructor has been stuck at 0.2.3 for a long time
>>> now. Is it dead?
>>
>>
>>
>> Nope, it just doesn't release very often on the front page, where one 
>> would
>> normally expect releases to appear :). There is activity on CVS. There is
>> also a - not very well publicized - 0.2.8 zip/tarball somewhere in the
>> forums if I'm not mistaken. I just can't find it right now.
>>
> 
> Here is a Message from Rijan from 15.12.03:
> Riaan Booysen wrote:
> 
>  > Hi everyone,
>  >
>  > 0.2.8 is available from CVS.
>  >
>  > Changes:
>  > * Improved EOL handling
>  >   * Converting (Edit->Convert...)
>  >   * Mode switching (Edit->STC settings...)
>  >   * Warning when mixed EOLs are detected
>  > * Added application todo view
>  >   * On app module, Views->Application todos
>  >   * Gives navigatible app wide todo list
>  > * Much improved support for maskededit family of controls
>  > * Added page about Sizers to the application help
>  >   * It's not linked to yet, but can be opened in a browser,
>  >     at Docs/boa/apphelp/Sizers.html
>  > * Many bug fixes
>  >   * Fixed process freezing if printing > 4k text
>  >   * Sizer, Designer and Editor bugs
>  >   * BicycleRepairMan plug-in bugs
>  >
>  > Updated versions of the maskededit controls needed by Boa can be
>  > found here:
>  > http://boa-constructor.sourceforge.net/files/maskededitctrls-0.2.8.zip
>  > Replace the ones in wxPython/lib/*
>  >
>  > A checkout of the 0.2.8 tree can be found here:
>  > 
> http://boa-constructor.sourceforge.net/files/boa-constructor-0.2.8-snapshot.tgz 
> 
>  >
>  > Enjoy,
>  > Riaan.
>  >
> 
> Hope this helps,
>     Uwe
> 



From deetsNOSPAM at web.de  Fri Apr 16 10:19:22 2004
From: deetsNOSPAM at web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2004 16:19:22 +0200
Subject: AOP use cases
References: <84fc4588.0404140106.3fa0c55@posting.google.com>
	<slrnc7q1ss.1aa.alf@largo.fayauffre.org>
	<cb035744.0404141130.170f51c4@posting.google.com>
	<slrnc7sgat.vp.alf@largo.fayauffre.org>
	<cb035744.0404160442.2f0b1661@posting.google.com>
	<0pydnSB4WYuieuLdRVn-hQ@powergate.ca>
Message-ID: <c5oqee$3a31q$1@ID-111250.news.uni-berlin.de>

Peter Hansen wrote:

> 
>> What are good usage examples?
> 
The other one that springs to my mind is the role rights/permissions
example. 



-- 
Regards,

Diez B. Roggisch


From mark at prothon.org  Thu Apr 15 19:27:07 2004
From: mark at prothon.org (Mark Hahn)
Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2004 16:27:07 -0700
Subject: CamelCase versus wide_names (Prothon)
References: <UHxfc.9323$dZ1.3740@fed1read04>	<407ec022$0$54153$1b2cd167@news.wanadoo.nl>	<roy-C4FD90.13444715042004@reader2.panix.com><b9Afc.9345$dZ1.7703@fed1read04>
	<mailman.660.1082061118.20120.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <ISEfc.9386$dZ1.5547@fed1read04>


"Jan Dries" <jan.dries at dcube-resource.be> wrote ...

> In all fairness, you are finding out that 6 of the 8 first people to
> respond to your post prefer CamelCase. The other two didn't voice a
> clear opinion in either direction. While I'm sure that might be
> indicative of some trend, it certainly does not mean 100% of Python
> users want camelCase.

Yes, I was definitely guilty of over-generalization.  I was just so
surprised that 100% of the first 6 who gave an opinion picked camelCase that
I got carried away.  Small sample sets like the first six can be deceptive,
but the odds of wide_names winning after this early response are near zero.
(Unless there is some correlation with camelCase-loving and quick-responding
:)




From jcarlson at uci.edu  Wed Apr  7 00:48:01 2004
From: jcarlson at uci.edu (Josiah Carlson)
Date: Tue, 06 Apr 2004 21:48:01 -0700
Subject: shutil.move, permission denied, why ?
In-Reply-To: <Xns94C3B42DA41DEstefninalussinanorg@212.27.42.68>
References: <Xns94C3B42DA41DEstefninalussinanorg@212.27.42.68>
Message-ID: <c501ca$op7$2@news.service.uci.edu>

>     def makeTree(self):
>         print 'HERE WE ARE'
>         f = file(self.__filename,'r')
>         f.close()
>         from shutil import move
>         from os.path import join
>         bakname = self.__filename + '.bak'
>         print bakname
>         print f.closed
>         f.close()
>         print 'TEST',f.closed
>         move(self.__filename,bakname)

Try...    os.rename(self.__filename, bakname)

  - Josiah


From dkuhlman at rexx.com  Fri Apr 16 14:55:26 2004
From: dkuhlman at rexx.com (Dave Kuhlman)
Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2004 11:55:26 -0700
Subject: Kuhlman's tutorials pretty good
References: <407E1E20.D0216E92@doe.carleton.ca>
	<200404150710.i3F7A0Hw010978@locutus.doe.carleton.ca>
	<407E40CC.C06FA9E3@doe.carleton.ca>
	<c5mmpu$3h1d4$1@ID-139865.news.uni-berlin.de>
	<mailman.675.1082104520.20120.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <c5pa6i$4apir$1@ID-139865.news.uni-berlin.de>

gabor wrote:

[snip]
> 
> hmmm..could you also put on the web the latex sources? (or a
> ps/pdf version?)...
> 
> or if it is already there, i can't find it :(

The TeX/LaTeX sources for these tutorials and postscript (.ps)
and PDF files are in:

    http://www.rexx.com/~dkuhlman/python_x01_training.zip

A few comments:

I was able, just now, to generate ps and pdf files.  Thanks for
asking this question.  You motivated me to try to generate them.  I
did not know that I could do that.

The fonts in the ps files are not so good, and the fonts in the pdf
files are terrible.  Maybe they will appear better on your system.
If you look at them, please let me know.

In both the ps and pdf files, example source code files that are
included into the LaTeX source do not show.  Only the file name
appears.  I don't know whether this is normal, or if it indicates
an error on my part.

There are a number of .tex files (the sources), a Makefile, and a
number of example files (which are sucked in when I build the HTML
files).  These sources are intended for use with the Python
documentation system.  You can find out about that at:

    http://docs.python.org/doc/doc.html

I don't know whether you are familiar with the Python documentation
system.  If you decide to generate ps or pdf files yourself, you
will need the Python source code distribution and other things
besides.  You will also need to modify my Makefile.  The Python
documentation system is great, by the way.

If I can be of help with your use of these files, please let me
know.

Dave

-- 
http://www.rexx.com/~dkuhlman
dkuhlman at rexx.com


From reverse.ku.oc.issolok at nothypgnal.delrest.co.uk  Tue Apr 27 05:24:44 2004
From: reverse.ku.oc.issolok at nothypgnal.delrest.co.uk (Paul Sweeney)
Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2004 09:24:44 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Default Argument Inconsistency?
Message-ID: <c6l8sr$5sm$2@titan.btinternet.com>

The python tutorial gives the following example to demonstrate the fact
that default args are only evaluated once:

def f(a,L=[]):
    L.append(a)
    return L

print f(1),f(2),f(3)
[1] [1,2] [1,2,3]

now I'm confident I understand this, but I do not understand how changing
to the following (whatever the merits of so doing, it was an accidental
typo)
results in the output displayed:

def f(a,L=[]):
    if not L: L=[]
    L.append(a)
    return L

>>> print f(1),f(2),f(3)
[1] [2] [3]

surely on second entry to f, L == [1], so the "if not L:" should not fire?!

I'm running v2.3.3 and have tried this on RH9.0 and W2K (just in case...)

any enlightenment gratefully recieved

THX





From wweston at att.net  Thu Apr 15 10:44:36 2004
From: wweston at att.net (wes weston)
Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2004 14:44:36 GMT
Subject: [Newbie Q on String & List Manipulation]
In-Reply-To: <567a7c35.0404150247.7809bef5@posting.google.com>
References: <567a7c35.0404150247.7809bef5@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <odxfc.33570$i74.758545@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>

Matthew wrote:
> Hello All,
> 
>     today is the first day i try to programming in Python,
>     my assignment is, write a silly script that probably
>     will run a few times a day to check if the Gmail services
>     is ready or not. ;)
> 
>     however, i encountered some problem when playing with the
>     list and string.
> 
>     i'm using Python 2.2.2 on Redhat. if i write something like:
> 
>         a = "one"
>         b = "two"
>         a += b
>         print a
> 
>     i will get:
> 
>         onetwo
> 
>     ok, seems quite ok, however, not sure why it doesn't work on
>     my silly Gmail script (pls refer to my script belows):
> 
>         for item in thecookies:
>             mycookies += item
> 
>         print mycookies
> 
>     i have exactly 4 items in the "thecookies" list, however, when
>     printing out "mycookies", it just show the last item (in fact,
>     seems the 4 items have been overlapped each others).
> 
>     could somebody pls kindly take a look at my silly script and
>     gimme some advise?
> 
>     thanks very much in advance! :)
> 
> ---
> matthew
> 
> 
> 
> 
> import re
> import string
> import sys
> import urllib
> 
> user = "da at email.address"
> pswd = "dapassword"
> 
> schm = "https://"
> host = "www.google.com"
> path = "/accounts/ServiceLoginBoxAuth"
> qstr = {"service"  : "mail",                     \
>         "continue" : "http://gmail.google.com/", \
>         "Email"    : user,                       \
>         "Passwd"   : pswd}
> 
> qstr = urllib.urlencode(qstr)
> 
> url  = schm + host + path + "?" + qstr
> 
> conn = urllib.urlopen(url)
> 
> headers  = conn.info().headers
> response = conn.read()
> 
> thecookies = []
> 
> #
> # extract all the Set-Cookie from the HTTP response header and put it in thecookies
> #
> 
> for header in headers:
>         matches = re.compile("^Set-Cookie: (.*)$").search(header)
>         if matches:
>                 thecookies.append(matches.group(1))
> 
> #
> # make sure we've grep the SID or die
> #
> 
> foundsessionid = 0
> 
> for item in thecookies:
>         if re.compile("^SID").search(item):
>                 foundsessionid = 1
>                 break
> 
> if not foundsessionid:
>         print "> Failded to retrieve the \"SID\" cookie"
>         sys.exit()
> 
> #
> # grep the GV cookie from the HTTP response or die
> #
> 
> matches = re.compile("^\s*var cookieVal= \"(.*)\";.*", re.M).search(response)
> 
> if matches:
>         thecookies.append("GV=" + matches.group(1))
> else:
>         print "> Failed to retrieve the \"GV\" cookie"
>         sys.exit()
> 
> print thecookies
> 
> mycookies = ""
> 
> for item in thecookies:
>         mycookies += item
> 
> print mycookies
> 
> #
> # still got many things to do right here...
> #
> 
> sys.exit()

 >>> sum=""
 >>> list=["a","b","c","d"]
 >>> for x in list:
...     sum+=x
...
 >>> sum
'abcd'



From adamc at linuxmail.org  Thu Apr 15 17:40:12 2004
From: adamc at linuxmail.org (Adam)
Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2004 22:40:12 +0100
Subject: newbie question
References: <Xns94CCA389D3DA0plasticnospamplsxsin@216.77.188.18>
Message-ID: <20040415224012.45c22a15@debian>

On Thu, 15 Apr 2004 20:55:11 GMT
jeff <plastic"no-spam-pls"@xsintrk.net> wrote:

> ex:
> 
> a = "text str"
> if a == "text str": print a
> 
> why doesn't that work?  i couldn't find much help about
> variable types in the manual, does it need a property like
> a.text?

What error are you getting?
adam


From rogerb at rogerbinns.com  Wed Apr 14 19:07:47 2004
From: rogerb at rogerbinns.com (Roger Binns)
Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2004 16:07:47 -0700
Subject: Method for providing a trail period on a program
References: <L8idnY07QbRfNPHdRVn-hw@comcast.com>
	<slrnc6pcmh.1f2.bignose-hates-spam@rose.localdomain.fake>
	<407CF4F0.4020604@yahoo.com.au>
	<avOdnevBfd4kPODdRVn-gg@comcast.com>
Message-ID: <pqs0l1-6og.ln1@home.rogerbinns.com>

> I am however, not prepared to
> let them run it forever for free.  If it provides
> value to them, I believe they should purchase a
> license.  This may put me in the minority on
> a Python site, but that's the way I feel.

Keep a counter of how many times the program has been
run, and how long a time period it has been used for.
Start whining once they get past a reasonable trial
period.

I would store the counters in the registry or somewhere
similar.  The user could go in and edit them back down
to zero, but at that point they are trying to immorally
alter the software function to get around the period.
There is no real point trying to deal with people who
are absolutely determined to steal.  They will always
succeed.  People who have to make minor changes
to circumvent stuff know they are doing wrong.

You can also add in a weekly check for updates (with
the users permission).  That will remind people that
they get to pay for the software's continued improvement
(unless 1.0 happens to be perfect and user requirements
never change :-)

Roger




From Michael.DeLaMaza at PETERSON.af.mil  Mon Apr 26 15:01:46 2004
From: Michael.DeLaMaza at PETERSON.af.mil (De La Maza Michael A GS-11 AFSPC/XPYS)
Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2004 19:01:46 -0000
Subject: Newbie question: Where is python23_bcpp.lib?
Message-ID: <200404261901.i3QJ1rcD007078@theseus.peterson.af.mil>

Under Windows, I'm trying to make a program (Gambit Python APIs) using
Borland (i.e., "make -f borland").
 
The Borland make file, shown below, wants python23_bcpp.lib in
$(PYTHONDIR)\libs\.
 
Unfortunately, there is no such file (error shown below).  There is a
python23.lib file but simply substituting python23_bcpp.lib with
python23.lib does not work.
 
Can anyone help?  Is this a problem with the borland.mak file or is it a
problem with my install of Python?  (I can run a "Hello World" program in
Python so Python is not completely broken).
 
Thanks,
Michael de la Maza
 
 
===Make file===
 
#
# $Source: /cvsroot/gambit/gambit/sources/python/borland.mak,v $
# $Date: 2004/04/09 18:25:47 $
# $Revision: 1.2 $
#
# DESCRIPTION:
# Makefile for Borland C++ 5.5 for Python interface
#
 
.AUTODEPEND
 
!include ..\makedef.bcc
 
PYTHONDIR = c:\python23
 
EXTRACPPFLAGS = -v -I$(PYTHONDIR)\include -I$(BCCDIR)\include -I..
-D__BCC55__
EXTRALINKFLAGS = 
 
CFG = ..\gambit32.cfg
 
OPT = -Od
 
.cxx.obj:
      bcc32 $(CPPFLAGS) -P -c {$< }
 
LIBS=gambit $(PYTHONDIR)\libs\python23_bcpp.lib import32 cw32mt
 
LINKFLAGS= /Tpd /Gn /q /x  /L$(BCCDIR)\lib;.. $(EXTRALINKFLAGS)
OPT = -Od
DEBUG_FLAGS=
 
CPPFLAGS= $(WXINC) $(EXTRACPPFLAGS) $(OPT) @$(CFG)
 
all:  gbt
 
gbt:    gbt_wrap.obj 
  ilink32 $(LINKFLAGS) @&&!
c0d32.obj gbt_wrap.obj
_gbt.pyd
nul
$(LIBS)
gbt.def
 
!
 
SWIGFILES = \
    behav.i \
    game.i \
    gbt.i \
    infoset.i \
    mixed.i \
    nash.i \
    node.i \
    outcome.i \
    player.i \
    rational.i
 
gbt_wrap.cxx:   $(SWIGFILES)
        swig -c++ -python gbt.i
 
 
clean:
        -erase *.obj
        -erase *.exe
        -erase *.res
        -erase *.map
        -erase *.rws
 
 
==Error=====
 
C:\Temp\Gambit 09712\gambit-0.97.1.2\sources\python>make -f borland
MAKE Version 5.2  Copyright (c) 1987, 2000 Borland
        ilink32 /Tpd /Gn /q /x /LC:\BORLAND\BCC55\lib;..  @MAKE0000.@@@
Fatal: Unable to open file 'PYTHON23_BCPP.LIB'
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From ark at acm.org  Fri Apr 30 13:52:44 2004
From: ark at acm.org (Andrew Koenig)
Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2004 17:52:44 GMT
Subject: Feedback on Sets, and Partitions
References: <mailman.136.1083282936.25742.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <Mnwkc.9241$Xj6.148183@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>

> I could live with only immutable sets, but it is nice
> being able to use:
>  myset.add(x)
>
> instead of:
>  newmyset = myset | Set([x])

What about

    myset |= Set([x])

Presumably that would work analogously to += for strings.

> Another unintutive feature is that there can be multiple sets with the
> same members. I.e., you can have sets A and B such that "A == B" is true
> and "A is B" is false.

Why is that any more unintuitive than the fact that there can be multiple
integers with the same value?
For example:

    x = 12345
    y = 12344+1

After these two statements, most Python implementations will evaluat "x is
y" as false, but of course 1==y is true.




From spam1 at omegis.com  Sun Apr 11 09:47:33 2004
From: spam1 at omegis.com (Omegis)
Date: Sun, 11 Apr 2004 15:47:33 +0200
Subject: string help ..
Message-ID: <newscache$6jb0wh$cjn$1@lnews.actcom.co.il>

Hello,
I'm a sustem admin on a linux box,
long time ago we got a new system panel to manage the apache 
configuration files,
from a nice guy that biuld it for us,
as time go by the "nice" guy gone and i need to update something very 
small in the script ...

today i have a check for php_value string in the httpd.conf file with 
this line:
self.phpvalues = self.phpvalues = re.compile("^\s*php_value\s+(.*)$", 
re.M).findall(string)

i need line to check also for "php_admin_value"
i really dont know a lot in python so its a problem for me to do this 
alone ...

thanks Alot for you help.
Rotem


From ae  Sun Apr 11 23:43:54 2004
From: ae (A Evans)
Date: Sun, 11 Apr 2004 20:43:54 -0700
Subject: A new OS
Message-ID: <107k441hitt2ld9@corp.supernews.com>

Hello Everyone I am working towards starting a project developing a new
Operating System using the Python language (or a derivative thereof). As
recommended on this forum I am asking if people are interested in something
like this and ask who would be willing to support a project this large.

Any and all ideas are welcome this message is just to see what kind of
support this project would recieve

Cheers

Andrew




From tjreedy at udel.edu  Thu Apr 29 13:27:00 2004
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Thu, 29 Apr 2004 13:27:00 -0400
Subject: static keyword
References: <mailman.113.1083254129.25742.python-list@python.org>
	<40912de6$0$46516$39cecf19@news.twtelecom.net>
Message-ID: <c6rdsr$qc5$1@sea.gmane.org>


"Rick Ratzel" <rick.ratzel at magma-da.com> wrote in message
news:40912de6$0$46516$39cecf19 at news.twtelecom.net...
>     Robert beat me to it...I was going to reply with a generator
> example!  Indeed...Nick *clearly* wants a generator.  By far the most
> elegant IMO.
> Robert Brewer wrote:
> > Nick Jacobson wrote:
> > Bah. All these old fogies with their default arg hacks, when Nick
> > *clearly* wants a generator:

> >>>>def foo():
> > ... i = 10
> > ... print "First pass"
> > ... while True:
> > ... i += 1
> > ... yield i
> >
> >>>>g = foo()
> >>>>g.next()
> >
> > First pass
> > 11

Unless, of course, Nick's foo is a simplified illustrative example and he
wants 'static' effect in functions with parameters.

TJR






From rogerb at rogerbinns.com  Wed Apr 28 14:50:41 2004
From: rogerb at rogerbinns.com (Roger Binns)
Date: Wed, 28 Apr 2004 11:50:41 -0700
Subject: Don't understand wxPython ids
References: <408ed938$0$17263$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
	<BOEjc.12559$eZ5.4366@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>
	<1a34m1-fml.ln1@home.rogerbinns.com>
	<408fb5fc$0$17264$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
Message-ID: <tva5m1-5ap.ln1@home.rogerbinns.com>

Grant Edwards wrote:
> I understand, but compare the above code with this:
>
> >           menu.Append("&Delete", "Delete the file", action=self.OnFileDelete)
> >           ....
> >           toolbar.AddLabelTool("Delete", action=self.OnFileDelete)
>
> Which is easier to understand at a glance?

If it is all in one place in one function then it is no big deal.
In reality if you have editable toolbars, menus loaded from definitions
elsewhere and stuff scattered across several modules then using
ids makes that easier.

Roger





From peholmst at abo.fi  Tue Apr 20 01:23:48 2004
From: peholmst at abo.fi (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Petter_Holmstr=F6m?=)
Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 08:23:48 +0300
Subject: File access and threads
Message-ID: <4084b3eb@newsflash.abo.fi>

Hello,

I have a problem with file access which I believe is caused by a 
thread-problem. I first noticed it while trying to get PSP/Mod_Python to 
work in the shape of an exception claiming that there are no usable 
temporary directories.

The second time I noticed it was when I was trying to dump an object to 
a file using pickle, and I got the "Bad file descriptor" error all the 
time, even though the file was created in the file system.

I googled around and found out that there have been similar problems 
before, and that these are due to threading, but I didn't manage to find 
a solution (except to recompile Python without threads, which in my case 
is not an option as I'm running Zope on the server).

Are there any tips you could give me?

I'm running Python 2.3.3 (from the Ports collection) on FreeBSD 5.2.1.

Thanks in advance,

-Petter-


From rick.ratzel at magma-da.com  Tue Apr 27 18:57:04 2004
From: rick.ratzel at magma-da.com (Rick Ratzel)
Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2004 17:57:04 -0500
Subject: debugging code
In-Reply-To: <3064b51d.0404271139.6ec7057@posting.google.com>
References: <3064b51d.0404271139.6ec7057@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <408ee541$0$46510$39cecf19@news.twtelecom.net>


Python defines __debug__ to True by default, and False when 
optimizations are enabled...meaning you can enable/disable code without 
having to define/undefine vars ahead of time and without having to 
change it prior to deployment.  This is how the "assert" statement 
works.  You can only set __debug__ through the use of -O or -OO.

For example, you can define a func like this:

def printDebugStmt( stmt ) :
    if __debug__ : print stmt


...and use it like this:

$ python
 >>> i=3
 >>> printDebugStmt( "Hello World...i = %s" % i )
Hello World...i = 3
 >>>

$ python -O
 >>> i=3
 >>> printDebugStmt( "Hello World...i = %s" % i )
 >>>

...just remember to "ship" your app so it runs Python with -O or -OO. 
BTW: you can use freeze.py with -O or -OO to get the same result for a 
"frozen" app.

-Rick


beliavsky at aol.com wrote:
> If I have some debugging code in a Python program (mostly print
> statements) and I want to turn it "off", two obvious methods are to
> (1) comment out the code 
> (2) set a logical 'debug' variable at the beginning and use it to
> conditionally run the debugging code.
> 
> Is there a better way? Some other languages have conditional
> compilation. (I don't know if that is better or worse). What is the
> "best" way to maintain "production" and "debugging" versions of a
> Python program at the same time, preferably in the same file?


From joe at notcharles.ca  Thu Apr 22 13:17:18 2004
From: joe at notcharles.ca (Joe Mason)
Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2004 17:17:18 GMT
Subject: CamelCase versus wide_names (Prothon)
References: <UHxfc.9323$dZ1.3740@fed1read04>
	<6ee58e07.0404192141.2229efd6@posting.google.com>
	<c62e05$6oraj$1@ID-99293.news.uni-berlin.de>
	<i93hc.13733$dZ1.8818@fed1read04>
	<mailman.789.1082458674.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<1082549174.163233@ns.topconrd.ru>
	<slrnc8d8u3.hsh.ramen@lackingtalent.com>
	<1082632248.524260@ns.topconrd.ru>
Message-ID: <slrnc8fvf4.2cs.joe@gate.notcharles.ca>

In article <1082632248.524260 at ns.topconrd.ru>, Sergei Organov wrote:
> Dave Benjamin <ramen at lackingtalent.com> writes:
>> In article <1082549174.163233 at ns.topconrd.ru>, Sergei Organov wrote:
> [...]
>> > Yet nobody mentioned that we don't have lower-case digits ;)
>> > 
>> > usb201_driver <-> usb201Driver <-> usb2??Driver
>> 
>> Hey, as long as Perl is adding French quotes to the language, why don't we
>> dig around in Unicode for some lower case numerals? I bet you could find
>> some if you looked hard enough, in between the Klingon alphabet and
>> Dingbats 47 perhaps... =)
> 
> Or we can use underscore in this case: 'usb201_Driver', where underscore
> means "camelize previous number" :)

Careful what you suggest - Perl 6 might add that as an operator!

Joe


From bart_nessux at hotmail.com  Fri Apr 30 19:43:37 2004
From: bart_nessux at hotmail.com (Bart Nessux)
Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2004 19:43:37 -0400
Subject: calling functions at the same time
References: <c6udda$qpv$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu>
	<1095ijdb5jotvf1@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <c6unuq$d0f$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu>

Cameron Laird wrote:

> In article <c6udda$qpv$1 at solaris.cc.vt.edu>,
> bart_nessux  <bart_nessux at hotmail.com> wrote:
>>I need a script to call several functions at the same time. How does one
>>call more than one function simultaneously?
>>
>>
>>
> 
> This has several smart-alecky answers, including "you don't",
> and "with co-routines".  The best way you can help yourself is
> to describe a concrete situation where your (Python?) script
> has a need to call even two functions simultaneously. 

I need to ping 4 hosts at exactly the same time from the  same machine (I
plan to timestamp the pings) to test and measure network conditions over
different routes to different hosts. Putting all the ping hosts in a list
and looping through it is not a fair or balanced way to do this because of
the time differences. 



> It turns 
> out "simultaneously" has a plethora of meanings, and you're the
> only one in a position to get others to understand which you
> have in mind.

I mean it to mean: at the *exact* same time... concurrently. Like runners
starting a race together.

> 
> It'll also help to know whether you mean "function" as specific
> to the Python language, or more abstractly, as a unit of useful
> accomplishment.

Specific to Python.


From deetsNOSPAM at web.de  Wed Apr 21 05:17:20 2004
From: deetsNOSPAM at web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2004 11:17:20 +0200
Subject: Can't spawn, or popen from daemon
References: <1082481539.1395.21.camel@localhost>
Message-ID: <c65eln$82i37$1@ID-111250.news.uni-berlin.de>

Not sure why its not working for you, but I have a similar situation where I
use daemonize and I can spawn using popen2.popen3:

out, inn, err = popen2.popen3(_.crm_executable % (path, program))

--
Regards,

Diez B. Roggisch


From gerrit at nl.linux.org  Fri Apr  9 07:46:51 2004
From: gerrit at nl.linux.org (Gerrit)
Date: Fri, 9 Apr 2004 13:46:51 +0200
Subject: List vs tuples
In-Reply-To: <107bn9jtoafb921@news.supernews.com>
References: <c54cjb$5fs$1@planja.arnes.si> <107bf8q8fhsmg5e@news.supernews.com>
	<roy-BDDD71.17205008042004@reader1.panix.com>
	<107bn9jtoafb921@news.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <20040409114651.GA6923@nl.linux.org>

John Roth wrote:
> This is perfectly true, but that's the intention. Guido says
> so himself. Lots of people either don't believe him, or
> don't understand him.

I belong to the second group.

I do understand the argument that for some kind of data, a subslice
doesn't make sense. But then I think, why is it a sequence at all? It's
easy to type 'return a,b,c'. But if the calling function only needs c,
it does not enhance readablilty if it does foo()[2]. So personally I
much prefer a function which then returns a dictionairy where the keys
are strings and the values a, b and c, so that the code is more readable.
Maybe it would be even better to have simple syntax for constructing an
object with attributes a, b an c.

For example timetuple. Why is timetuple a sequence at all? Until some
Python version, the weekday would me timetuple[i], which is not friendly
to the eye. Now you can fetch it through an attribute, which is much
better, but I still think the order of the "elements" of a time don't
make sense. Who thinks of time, coordinates, a database record or
similar as a sequence?

Does a high-level, object-oriented language need tuples at all?

yours,
Gerrit (who very rarely uses tuples).

-- 
Weather in Amsterdam Airport Schiphol, Netherlands 09/04 12:25:
	8.0?C Scattered clouds mostly cloudy wind 4.0 m/s N (-2 m above NAP)
-- 
Experiences with Asperger's Syndrome:
	EN http://topjaklont.student.utwente.nl/english/
	NL http://topjaklont.student.utwente.nl/



From hungjunglu at yahoo.com  Mon Apr  5 00:04:36 2004
From: hungjunglu at yahoo.com (Hung Jung Lu)
Date: 4 Apr 2004 21:04:36 -0700
Subject: Working with a list in a more ?pythonic? way
References: <20040404124833458+0200@news.rhrz.uni-bonn.de>
	<c4p5pc$4t0$04$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <8ef9bea6.0404042004.213adfb1@posting.google.com>

Peter Otten <__peter__ at web.de> wrote in message news:<c4p5pc$4t0$04$1 at news.t-online.com>...
> 
> def calcScore(phrase):
>     return reduce(
>         lambda (sigma, last), i: (sigma + soundScoreMatrix[last][i], i),
>         map(lambda c: ord(c)-65, phrase[1:]), (0, ord(phrase[0])-65))[0]

That's it! Great! "Tail call" in functional programming for emulating
loop variables in imperative programming (the "last" variable in this
case.) However, whenever functional languages get to the point of
using tail calls, I think they get into a sad state of affair. It's
basically using functional language to do imperative programming. In
imperative languages you would have a sequence of lines for the
assignments, and in functional language you pile them up as arguments
to the left in the tail call, effectively emulating states. It's like
writing a program horizontally. :)

Hung Jung


From jgrahn-nntq at algonet.se  Sat Apr 24 08:39:35 2004
From: jgrahn-nntq at algonet.se (Jorgen Grahn)
Date: Sat, 24 Apr 2004 12:39:35 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: How to check if a path *could* be a legal path?
References: <c62ums$b3b$1@atlantis.news.tpi.pl>
	<cYqdnauMDdsosxjd4p2dnA@comcast.com>
Message-ID: <slrnc8kntf.pk.jgrahn-nntq@frailea.sa.invalid>

[top-posting fixed]

On Tue, 20 Apr 2004 09:07:51 -0500, Larry Bates <lbates at swamisoft.com> wrote:
> "Maciej Sobczak" <no.spam at no.spam.com> wrote in message
> news:c62ums$b3b$1 at atlantis.news.tpi.pl...
>> Hi,
>>
>> I have a string.
>> This string is to be used as a path for a new file.
>> I would like to check if this string *could be* a valid file name,
>> *before* I try to create the file itself.
>> In other words, I would like to know whether some string violates the
>> underlying OS's policies (or maybe some more restriced policies, but
>> portable) considering file paths.

> It is much easier to put your code that would create the
> path inside a try block and just have an exception that
> handles the failure.  If most of the time the path is
> legal, it is faster also.

That strategy would fail in lots of situations where the path is actually
well-formed, i.e. permission flags, non-existing directories, files where
directories are expected ...

But I agree that it generally seems better to detect failures here. And I
think it's generally better to fail /hard/ here and let the user fix it,
than try to fix the situation yourself - doing that would be awfully tricky
in the general case.

By the way, for Unix the test is pretty easy. It's more or less
  def isValid(path): return path and not '\0' in path

/Jorgen

-- 
  // Jorgen Grahn <jgrahn@      ''If All Men Were Brothers,
\X/                algonet.se>    Would You Let One Marry Your Sister?''


From mgibson at tripwire.com  Tue Apr 20 19:16:33 2004
From: mgibson at tripwire.com (uebertester)
Date: 20 Apr 2004 16:16:33 -0700
Subject: md5.hexdigest() converting unicode string to ascii
References: <77b925de.0404151450.5c1f720a@posting.google.com><c5ohp8$fqf$1@absinth.dialog.net.pl><mailman.687.1082117438.20120.python-list@python.org><c5om3d$iu4$1@absinth.dialog.net.pl>	<77b925de.0404161337.3917ef56@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.727.1082181832.20120.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <77b925de.0404201516.7941cd83@posting.google.com>

"Fredrik Lundh" <fredrik at pythonware.com> wrote in message news:<mailman.727.1082181832.20120.python-list at python.org>...
> "uebertester" wrote:
> 
> > None of the suggestions seem to address the issue.  sValue =
> > _winreg.QueryValueEx(y,"") returns a tuple containing the following
> > (u'http://', 1).  The string u'http://' is added to the md5 object via
> > the update() and then hashed via hexdigest().  How do I keep the
> > unicode string from being converted to ascii with the md5 functions?
> 
> krzysztof already explained this:
> 
> - MD5 is calculated on bytes, not characters.
> - Unicode strings contain characters, not bytes.
> - if you pass in a Unicode string where Python expects a byte string,
>   Python converts the Unicode string to an 8-bit string using the default
>   rules (which simply creates 8-bit bytes with the same values as the
>   corresponding Unicode characters, as long as the Unicode string only
>   contains characters for which ord(ch) < 128).
> - if you're not happy with that rule, you have to convert the Unicode
>   string to a byte string yourself, using the "encode" method.
> 
>         m.update(u.encode(encoding))
> 
> - if you don't know what encoding you're supposed to use, you have
>   to guess.  if it doesn't matter, as long as you remember what you used,
>   I'd suggest "utf-8" or perhaps "utf-16-le".
> 
> > Or can I?
> 
> given how things work, the "how do I keep the string from being
> converted" doesn't really make sense.
> 
> </F>

Thanks for the clarification.  My confusion stemed from the Python
Library Reference which states, "Its use is quite straightforward: use
new() to create an md5 object. You can now feed this object with
arbitrary strings using the update() method, and at any point you can
ask it for the digest...".

I've attempted the suggested solution specifying different encodings,
however, the hash value that is returned does not match what I expect
based upon another utility I'm checking against.  Hash value returned
by python specifying utf16 encoding: 731f46dd88cb3a67a4ee1392aa84c6f4
.  Hash value returned by other utility:
0b0ebc769e2b89cf61a10a72d5a11dda .  Note:  I've tried other encoding
also.  As the utility I'm verifying against is extensively used, I'm
assuming it is returning the correct value.  I appreciate any help in
resolving this as I'm trying to enhance an automated test suite
written in python.

Thanks


From project5 at redrival.net  Thu Apr  8 16:59:08 2004
From: project5 at redrival.net (Andrei)
Date: Thu, 8 Apr 2004 22:59:08 +0200
Subject: List vs tuples
References: <c54cjb$5fs$1@planja.arnes.si>
Message-ID: <2cwtb2209b5b$.1tat8f32c6zi2.dlg@40tude.net>

Mitja wrote on Thu, 8 Apr 2004 18:47:07 +0200:

> A neewbie's question here, probably discussed before:
> what's the purpose of having both lists AND tuples?
> At the first (and second and third, to be honest) glance lists are just
> tuples with extended functionality, so why have tuples around?

You can use tuples as keys in a dictionary, but you can't use lists for
that purpose (because they're mutable).

> I've been working with Python for a few months now but haven't yet come
> across a problem that would really require tuples.

That's possible. Lists offer many more facilities than tuples (mainly due
to them being mutable), so it's easier to just use a list (even if a tuple
could do the job).

-- 
Yours,

Andrei

=====
Real contact info (decode with rot13):
cebwrpg5 at jnanqbb.ay. Fcnz-serr! Cyrnfr qb abg hfr va choyvp cbfgf. V ernq
gur yvfg, fb gurer'f ab arrq gb PP.


From stach at fr.USUN.pl  Fri Apr 16 17:06:12 2004
From: stach at fr.USUN.pl (Krzysztof Stachlewski)
Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2004 23:06:12 +0200
Subject: Error copying a file
In-Reply-To: <OPydnXBP97gWrx3dRVn-hw@powergate.ca>
References: <c5ka45$c8v$1@newshost.mot.com>
	<c5mbfv$qc4$1@absinth.dialog.net.pl>
	<c5p9ph$7h9$1@newshost.mot.com>
	<OPydnXBP97gWrx3dRVn-hw@powergate.ca>
Message-ID: <c5pht9$esj$1@absinth.dialog.net.pl>

Peter Hansen wrote:

> Okay, any reason not to call this a bug in the Windows version of
> Python, when os.path.isfile can handle the name but Python can't
> open or copy the file?

Hmmm... isfile() apparently uses some OS functions that don't
check for valid characters in filenames.
If it is a bug then it is a bug within Windows.
But from the Windows point of view, a " in filename
is simply some piece of corrupted data so it can do anything with it.
It's good it doesn't display BSOD. ;-)

-- 
Stach  Tlen: stachobywatelpl, GG: 1811474
        Jabber: stach at jabber atman pl


From steveb428pleaseremovethis at hotmail.com  Sat Apr  3 17:06:47 2004
From: steveb428pleaseremovethis at hotmail.com (DilbertFan)
Date: Sat, 03 Apr 2004 22:06:47 GMT
Subject: beginner import confusion
References: <SXEbc.45642$i63.42730@newssvr25.news.prodigy.com>
	<406f2fe7$1@nntp0.pdx.net>
Message-ID: <XzGbc.45658$vQ3.16621@newssvr25.news.prodigy.com>

packages, okay... , yes, thank you..  got it, back to one of my O'Reilly
books
"Scott David Daniels" <Scott.Daniels at Acm.Org> wrote in message
news:406f2fe7$1 at nntp0.pdx.net...
> DilbertFan wrote:
>
> > Hi,
> >  I really thought that I had this importing business down.
> > I recently downloaded and installed mx module for the DateTime class.
> >
> > In IDLE, I go:
> >    import mx
> >    mx.DateTime.DateTime(2004)
>  >    I get AttributeError: 'module' object has no attribute 'DateTime'
>
> mx is a package, mx.DateTime is a module; you need to import a module
> to get to its contents.
>
> >  but if you type:
> >     import mx.DateTime
> >     mx.DateTime.DateTime(2004)
> >    <DateTime object for '2004-01-01 00:00:00.00' at a979e0>
>  > If you "import mx", ... doesn't that get everything?
> If mx were a module, you would be right.  However, it is a "package,"
> a collection of modules and packages.  Packages are a way of keeping
> the names one provider of many python modules from conflicting with
> the module names of both you and python itself.
>
> > If you know, from the docs, that it contains a DateTime class
> > and then a DateTime object,
> mx.DateTime.DateTime is a class, not an object.
> You could do:
>      from mx.DateTime import DateTime
> to simply get the DateTime class and then use DateTime(2004).
>
> -- 
> -Scott David Daniels
> Scott.Daniels at Acm.Org




From newsgroups at jhrothjr.com  Mon Apr 26 14:03:00 2004
From: newsgroups at jhrothjr.com (John Roth)
Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2004 14:03:00 -0400
Subject: how to add new print %b format to python?
References: <slrnc8q9qp.htc.rs@frank.overlook.homelinux.net>
Message-ID: <108qjne9jqtit4c@news.supernews.com>

"Rusty Shackleford" <rs at overlook.homelinux.net> wrote in message
news:slrnc8q9qp.htc.rs at frank.overlook.homelinux.net...
> I have a Summer in front of me without any school, and I'd like to add a
> new format for python print strings that will show any number in a
> binary representation.  For example:
>
> >>> '%b' % 3
> 11
> >>> '%b' % 5
> 101
>
> You get the idea.  I've written functions that return strings, so that
> part is done, but where do I go to tinker with the python interpreter to
> add this new format?
>
> Please don't argue with me about whether this is an advisable goal in
> itself -- I'm using it as a method to learn about the internals of the
> python language.

Well, if I was familiar with the internals, I'd start with the code
that implements the string object, since it's simply an overload of
the '%' operator. Sorry I can't help you with a module name, though.

To actually get it added to the core, you need to write a PEP and
champion it through the process. Writing a reference implementation
and the documentation is also a necessity. There's a PEP that
explains the documentation standards for Python C language code;
if your patch follows that you've improved your chances by some
significant amount.

John Roth





From peter at engcorp.com  Thu Apr  1 09:38:45 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Thu, 01 Apr 2004 09:38:45 -0500
Subject: GUI Frameworks in Python?
In-Reply-To: <6ee58e07.0403311125.52f0acf0@posting.google.com>
References: <mailman.102.1080629227.20120.python-list@python.org>	<b5idnd8_MLmQg_Td4p2dnA@powergate.ca>	<cm9ac.8115$lt2.6537@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>	<FJGdnUG9P87T4fTdRVn-uQ@powergate.ca>
	<mailman.117.1080656311.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<qYCdna1kjd3fBPTdRVn-tw@powergate.ca>
	<6ee58e07.0403311125.52f0acf0@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <e7ydnQGOXLTotPHdRVn-tA@powergate.ca>

Lothar Scholz wrote:

> Peter Hansen <peter at engcorp.com> wrote in message news:<qYCdna1kjd3fBPTdRVn-tw at powergate.ca>...
> 
> 
>>Go figure.  (And as I said this is an AMD 2200 with 512MB RAM, XP Pro.)
> 
> 
> You and all others miss one important number: What a harddisk are you
> using ?
> A notebook with a 4200rpm has a much lower startup time then a
> 7200rpm. It is as strange as a 10 against 2 seconds for the same
> program on WinXP when compiled with Borland instead MS Visual C.

An excellent question...

My hard disk is a "lightning fast" Seagate 120GB 7200 RPM Serial-ATA 
drive with liquid bearings and an 8MB cache...

Clearly it's those liquid bearings that make it so fast. ;-)

-Peter


From huzhenghui37 at tom.com  Tue Apr  6 11:40:47 2004
From: huzhenghui37 at tom.com (huzhenghui37)
Date: Tue, 06 Apr 2004 23:40:47 +0800
Subject: about the path of extensive modules
Message-ID: <4072CF7F.5080603@tom.com>

with my experience 
when i install the wxPython  the installer put all things in the 
python\Lib\site-packages\
and from the source code "import wxpthon.wx" i know how import the modules
when i install the py2exe  the installer also put all things in the 
python\Lib\site-packages\

so i wonder the information about the method of  modules path management 
in python.
and if i write my own package of modules how to use (say, install) in python
thanks




From andrew-pythonlist at puzzling.org  Thu Apr  1 06:52:37 2004
From: andrew-pythonlist at puzzling.org (Andrew Bennetts)
Date: Thu, 1 Apr 2004 21:52:37 +1000
Subject: How to connect multiple class instances to 1 Twisted factory?
In-Reply-To: <TWJac.6124$Hs1.3165@fe03.usenetserver.com>
References: <TWJac.6124$Hs1.3165@fe03.usenetserver.com>
Message-ID: <20040401115237.GB14703@frobozz>

On Wed, Mar 31, 2004 at 08:07:00PM -0500, Qp wrote:
> Is this even possible?  I'm designing a simple chat and game client/server
> as an intro to Python, and it would be nice to represent the different
> interfaces (public chat room, private chat rooms, game instances) as totally
> seperate classes and show them in totally seperate windows.
> 
> Given my basic understanding of Twisted, I see no way of doing this, and my
> whole GUI is contained in one class.  The project is doable this way, it
> would just be much better with multiple class and multiple window
> seperation.
> 
> If anyone can give me any direction, I would appreciate it very much.

This sounds feasible to me, although I'm no Tk expert.  Try asking on the
Twisted mailing list (twisted-python at twistedmatrix.com).

-Andrew.




From ville at spammers.com  Wed Apr 28 09:33:46 2004
From: ville at spammers.com (Ville Vainio)
Date: 28 Apr 2004 16:33:46 +0300
Subject: Is Perl *that* good?
References: <c6ich0$c5mee$1@ID-205437.news.uni-berlin.de>
	<ECCjc.30580$Vp5.25085@fe2.columbus.rr.com>
	<roy-15912E.20355127042004@reader2.panix.com>
	<XwEjc.31513$Vp5.16074@fe2.columbus.rr.com>
	<108v74768o9sb9f@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <du7k700w7k5.fsf@mozart.cc.tut.fi>

>>>>> "Cameron" == Cameron Laird <claird at lairds.com> writes:

    Cameron> my provisional conclusion:  my past attempts to track
    Cameron> down claims of the "Perl is tops for string-handling"
    Cameron> sort generally reinforced the proposition that the
    Cameron> speaker simply meant, "Perl privileges REs" (and that
    Cameron> the speaker had no familiarity with Python, let alone
    Cameron> Icon or Prolog).  Now I see there's a likelihood of

I tend to see praises of perl string handling as an indication of just
not knowing Python. Somehow people acquire weird proconceptions (tcl
is best for quick uis, perl for string handling, ...) and refuse to
reconsider them even if the realities that originally created the
preconceptions have changed, rendering the original claim
categorically false.

BTW, nobody seems to miss Perl libs and CPAN anymore. A few years ago
most of the complaints regarding python were that perl has more
libraries. This is a good sign :-).

-- 
Ville Vainio   http://tinyurl.com/2prnb


From mcfletch at rogers.com  Tue Apr 27 01:21:08 2004
From: mcfletch at rogers.com (Mike C. Fletcher)
Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2004 01:21:08 -0400
Subject: What is good about Prothon?
In-Reply-To: <hWkjc.635$Qy.192@fed1read04>
References: <bniq80hiib0gauiltuntk9jvia2getbnj4@4ax.com>	<mailman.31.1083031283.25742.python-list@python.org>
	<hWkjc.635$Qy.192@fed1read04>
Message-ID: <408DEDC4.8030504@rogers.com>

Mark Hahn wrote:
...

>For what it's worth, you are basicly in agreement with the current proposals
>for Prothon.
>  
>
Maybe I should add designing languages to my list of projects starved 
for time :) .

Have fun,
Mike

_______________________________________
  Mike C. Fletcher
  Designer, VR Plumber, Coder
  http://members.rogers.com/mcfletch/





From simoninusa2001 at yahoo.co.uk  Mon Apr  5 17:35:21 2004
From: simoninusa2001 at yahoo.co.uk (simo)
Date: 5 Apr 2004 14:35:21 -0700
Subject: Module import problems
References: <30260531.0404041725.746befa0@posting.google.com>
	<DJWdnQdYSrHdVe3dRVn-tw@powergate.ca>
Message-ID: <30260531.0404051335.27cabd5d@posting.google.com>

Yay, I've done it!

I had to resort to "from login import *" in main.py and then "import
wx" (and other modules like urllib/webbrowser etc) in login.py and it
all seems to work.

I didn't occur to me that I'd have to import the modules used in each
module file, I thought it would work just from the parent (main.py)
file.

I've also stopped myself from calling classes instead of defs (I had
the whole class in the __init__ def previously) and removed most of my
global variables.

Now I have twelve 1-6Kb files like login.py, plus an 18Kb main.py,
instead of one 38Kb main.py to grep through!

So it was worth the struggle to clean up a bit....


From claird at lairds.com  Sun Apr  4 13:20:37 2004
From: claird at lairds.com (Cameron Laird)
Date: Sun, 04 Apr 2004 17:20:37 -0000
Subject: emergent/swarm/evolutionary systems etc
References: <c4aeq8$92a$1@hercules.btinternet.com>
	<106um6hcr363u14@corp.supernews.com>
	<c4pbri$afg$1@hercules.btinternet.com>
	<dqednXF6-IRI3e3dRVn-ug@powergate.ca>
Message-ID: <1070gv5586u8mc2@corp.supernews.com>

In article <dqednXF6-IRI3e3dRVn-ug at powergate.ca>,
Peter Hansen  <peter at engcorp.com> wrote:
			.
			.
			.
>> LISP brought it to mind.  Although LISP doesn't look that much better than
>> Python code, are there any programs out there that let you program, um,
>> programs, using various shapes, colours etc?  Just thinking about it brings
>> up all manner of difficulties that would be encountered if you tried to
>> create such a thing, but it would be nice if there was some immediately
>> obvious graphical connection between pieces of code [...]
>
>Using the "G" graphical language of LabVIEW, all code ends up
>_literally_ looking like spaghetti...  would that help?  ;-)
>
>-Peter

LabVIEW's the first example that came to my mind, although
perhaps Prograph or JavaBeans (!) could be argued as more
commercially successful.

I've worked on VPLs a couple of cycles in my career already,
in process-control contexts.  My enthusiasm is tepid--but
then I've exceedingly text-oriented.
-- 

Cameron Laird <claird at phaseit.net>
Business:  http://www.Phaseit.net


From rogerb at rogerbinns.com  Tue Apr 27 17:30:56 2004
From: rogerb at rogerbinns.com (Roger Binns)
Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2004 14:30:56 -0700
Subject: Tkinter vs. wxPython?
References: <408E9DCA.EC753FE6@shaw.ca>
Message-ID: <9103m1-v2i.ln1@home.rogerbinns.com>

SeeBelow at SeeBelow.Nut wrote:
> Do many people think that wxPython should replace Tkinter?  Is this
> likely to happen?
>
> I ask because I have just started learning Tkinter, and I wonder if I
> should abandon it in favor of wxPython.

wxPython comes with a demo which includes sample code for almost all
the different controls.  I would recommend looking at the demo (and
sample code) to see the scope of wxPython.  The sample code will
give you an idea of how readable the code is.

In the end I used wxPython because I wanted things like printer
support.

Roger




From peter at engcorp.com  Fri Apr  9 11:01:45 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Fri, 09 Apr 2004 11:01:45 -0400
Subject: program distribution
In-Reply-To: <4075f5bb_1@news.iprimus.com.au>
References: <4075f5bb_1@news.iprimus.com.au>
Message-ID: <4dKdnQ5IXMJEJ-vdRVn-gg@powergate.ca>

mr_vocab wrote:

> Hi im new to  python but have made a few applications how can i save them
> and get the to run sort of like an application

What operating system are you using?  Py2exe is the usual
solution for Windows machines.  Google can tell you more.

-Peter


From areafiftytwo at wanadoo.fr  Thu Apr 15 20:32:19 2004
From: areafiftytwo at wanadoo.fr (Derek)
Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2004 02:32:19 +0200
Subject: Simple pyhon-based CMS
References: <9396ba6f.0404131817.1219c695@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <c5n93s$p5g$1@news-reader4.wanadoo.fr>

what about squishdot? I believe that sits under plone.

"Stewart Midwinter" <stewart at midwinter.ca> wrote in message
news:9396ba6f.0404131817.1219c695 at posting.google.com...
> I'm looking for a simple python-based CMS (content management system),
> maybe with some blog-like features, ability to add articles - nothing
> too fancy.  Do you have any suggestions?
>
> I've looked at Zope / Plone: very easy to install using the rpm I
> found.  But it's obviously quite complex and powerful, which is no
> doubt of benefit on a site that has many users. But I'm just one
> person.  All I want is a pythonic replacement for my current tool,
> postNuke.
>
> I looked at NewzBruiser: this would probably be simple enough, maybe
> even too simple, but it requires that I enable SSI support on Apache,
> something I seem to be unable to accomplish (I run SME server from
> contribs.org and it uses a byzantine templating system for its
> configuring, which leaves me in the dark on how to modify httpd.conf
> there).
>
> Any other ideas?
>
> thanks
> Stewart in Calgary




From sridharinfinity at yahoo.com  Sat Apr  3 05:51:48 2004
From: sridharinfinity at yahoo.com (Sridhar R)
Date: 3 Apr 2004 02:51:48 -0800
Subject: Parrot for Python
Message-ID: <930ba99a.0404030251.c2d2107@posting.google.com>

Hi,

I come across the Parrot project.  Seems like it is a better
compromising alternative for .NET and Java.  That is, we can develop
applications in Python (for productivity) and still can interact with
components written in other languages, as they were compiled to the
parrot byte code.

But my concern is, how will Python interoperate with Parrot.  Since,
Python has strong interospection, won't it be difficult to generate
parrot code from python source file.

For doing a simple attribute reference,
a.b = 10

the parrot code will be bigger (dict find, get, assign ...)

Another question.

Why is Java so popular than Python.  Are the technologies for Java
available for Python (no ... no jython)?  We can implement them in
python if we want.  But the difference is speed.


From adonisv at REMTHISearthlink.net  Mon Apr 26 20:55:43 2004
From: adonisv at REMTHISearthlink.net (Adonis)
Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2004 00:55:43 GMT
Subject: Question on creating Tkinter Widgets
Message-ID: <jcijc.3852$g31.1644@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net>

I am creating some widgets by inheriting from Tkinter.Frame and populating
the frame with whatever the widget will be then creating certain
attributes/methods to be accessed later. My question is, is this a poper way
to create widgets or should I take a different approach?

Any help is greatly appreciated.

Adonis




From peter at engcorp.com  Fri Apr  2 08:00:50 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Fri, 02 Apr 2004 08:00:50 -0500
Subject: Simple text markup (-> HTML)
In-Reply-To: <tyfy8pezjc8.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
References: <tyf3c7m1zic.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
	<406D3EAA.16466030@alcyone.com>
	<tyfy8pezjc8.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
Message-ID: <Sb-dndqaVpec-fDdRVn-hw@powergate.ca>

Jacek Generowicz wrote:

> Erik Max Francis <max at alcyone.com> writes:
>>reStructredText.  Bigtime.
> 
> Way cool !
> 
> I am rather shocked that this (or its ancestors) has not registered on
> my radar before now.

It's ancestors, at least in the "Structured Text" world, weren't
up to the task.

But they didn't have David Goodger behind them...

-Peter


From michael at foord.net  Thu Apr  1 02:18:32 2004
From: michael at foord.net (Fuzzyman)
Date: 31 Mar 2004 23:18:32 -0800
Subject: Why '==' ??
References: <mailman.124.1080662765.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<8089854e.0403302319.1ab56af0@posting.google.com>
	<c4e4j9$dtp$1@news.service.uci.edu>
Message-ID: <8089854e.0403312318.77d465f@posting.google.com>

Josiah Carlson <jcarlson at uci.edu> wrote in message news:<c4e4j9$dtp$1 at news.service.uci.edu>...
> > if a = 3 
> >    print 'Yeah baby'
> > 
> > are still *unambiguous*.... yet the interpreter refuses to understand
> > you......
> 
> Oh, the CPython interpreter understands you, it just doesn't like what 
> you say.  I (and I'm sure the majority of other Python users) agree with 
> the interpreter, your modified syntax leaves something to be desired.
> 
> You syntax also /makes ambiguous/ the following currently valid Python 
> syntax...
> 
> if a == 3: \
>      print "hello"
> 
> If we converted that to /your/ syntax, it would read...
> 

Not at all...but there you go... you need to reread what I said :-)

> if a = 3 \
>      print "hello"
> 
> Which would get internally translated to...
> 
> if a = 3 print "hello"
> 
> I don't think it makes sense, and I wouldn't expect an interpreter to 
> think it makes sense of it either.
> 
> 
> > Theres no reason why a single '=' shouldn't be understood in a
> > conditional....
> 
> Except that it would be a 'special case' when two different syntactical 
> symbols mean the same thing.
> "Special cases aren't special enough to break the rules."
>   - The Zen of Python, by Tim Peters
> 

Not at all.
No need for a special case. Leave '==' with the same meaning as it
currently has... but give '=' a dual meaning (as it has in reality)
with the meaning obvious from context. In 'multi statements' (or
whatever the correct phrase is to pre-empt any more otiose comments)
require '==' so the syntax is clear.

Ie. If the meaning is obvious.... '=' can replace '=='... if it's
not.. it can't...



> > As for needing a ':' to allow statements after a 'def' or a
> > conditional.... python already has the ';' for that... why insist on a
> > ':'
> 
> Do you even read the docs?  

Sorry.. didn't realise memorising the entire python documentation was
a requirement before posting :p

> Python does not have ';' to allow statements 

Actually - *you've* completely misread the sense of what I've written
;-)

> after a def, Python has ';' because it allows you to place more than one 
> statement on a single line.  

Yup. 

> That is, it allows...
> a = 1;b = 2;c = 3;
> 
> /not/ because it allows the absolutely ugly:
> def fun(a,b): print a,; print b;
> 
> You should note that ':' is placed in syntactically different locations 
> than ';', because they have syntactically different meanings.  ':' means 
> "there is some scope that is being enclosed", 

Which is unnecessary *as far as I can see* - because it's always
obvious that some scope is being enclosed......... You've failed to
show any case where that's not true. (Although I wouldn't be surprised
if it was..).

The reason some people stated it was necessary was to allow another
statement on the same line... which is what I said ';' was for.

Sorry if you enjoy flaming newbies....... but in this case you'r a bit
off beam Josian old bean.............


Regards,



Fuzzy
(Recent python convert)
http://www.voidspace.org.uk/atlantibots/pythonutils.html


> while ';' means "that is 
> the end of the previous statement".
> 
> 
>   - Josiah


From skip at pobox.com  Mon Apr 26 11:48:33 2004
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2004 10:48:33 -0500
Subject: Best way to add attributes to shelved objects?
In-Reply-To: <20040426150535.GA63648@dogma.freebsd-uk.eu.org>
References: <20040423193951.GC27351@dogma.freebsd-uk.eu.org>
	<16521.29527.356495.151656@montanaro.dyndns.org>
	<20040426150535.GA63648@dogma.freebsd-uk.eu.org>
Message-ID: <16525.12113.839367.623697@montanaro.dyndns.org>

    skip> Why not check for those attributes in your __getstate__ method and
    skip> add default (or computed) values for any missing attributes?

    jm> I tried experimenting with these, and could not get them to work.
    ...
    jm> Are there any examples on how to do this?

How about:

    class Foo:
        def __init__(self):
            self.a = 1

        def __setstate__(self, d):
            if 'b' not in d:
                d['b'] = 2
            self.__dict__ = d

    f = Foo()
    print hasattr(f, "a"), hasattr(f, "b")

    import pickle
    pfile = file("test.pck", "wb")
    pickle.dump(f, pfile)
    pfile.close()

    f = pickle.load(file("test.pck", "rb"))
    print hasattr(f, "a"), hasattr(f, "b")

Skip



From mark at prothon.org  Sun Apr 25 23:58:42 2004
From: mark at prothon.org (Mark Hahn)
Date: Sun, 25 Apr 2004 20:58:42 -0700
Subject: Why we will use obj$func() often
References: <d2Uhc.22272$dZ1.1600@fed1read04> <84Uhc.22278$dZ1.5087@fed1read04>
	<mailman.927.1082665370.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<8AWhc.23114$dZ1.11070@fed1read04> <40883BFE.B381518A@alcyone.com>
	<27_hc.23801$dZ1.2716@fed1read04> <40887145.789A2FE8@alcyone.com>
	<7cki80hj976bia36lhf9er97v073o1pqvm@4ax.com>
	<w8dic.28710$dZ1.11206@fed1read04> <ulXiAls/KH1K089yn@the-wire.com>
	<lkfic.29767$dZ1.17301@fed1read04>
	<donn-66132E.15345723042004@nntp3.u.washington.edu>
	<PLhic.30493$dZ1.22063@fed1read04> <1082783076.585831@yasure>
	<Tunic.32387$dZ1.12932@fed1read04>
	<c6hvdk$bs63j$1@ID-169208.news.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <SN%ic.37580$dZ1.14964@fed1read04>

"Greg Ewing" <greg at cosc.canterbury.ac.nz> wrote in message
news:c6hvdk$bs63j$1 at ID-169208.news.uni-berlin.de...
> Mark Hahn wrote:
> > The advantage of prefix symbols that Ruby and Prothon use right now is
that
> > the compiler and the program reader don't have to scan the code at all
to
> > see what scope the var belongs to.  When you see the & you know it's in
the
> > surrounding function,
>
> Hang on a minute. Do you literally mean the immediately
> surrounding function, and not one further out? In
>
>    def f():
>      def g():
>        def h():
>          &x = 42
>        h()
>      g()
>      print x
>
> does the &x in h refer to the x in f? If it does, then I
> don't see how you can deduce that in a single pass. If it
> doesn't, then how do you refer to the x in f from h?

You cannot.  Yes it literally means the immediately surrounding function.
In your example, I can't think of any scheme we've discussed that accesses x
in function f.  Python surely cannot.

I understand this is quite limiting, but it's simple. As always, I'm open to
suggestions...




From andreas.lobinger at netsurf.de  Wed Apr 21 04:28:51 2004
From: andreas.lobinger at netsurf.de (Andreas Lobinger)
Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2004 10:28:51 +0200
Subject: PDF library?
References: <7xad1631j8.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<pan.2004.04.21.09.49.28.891429@NOTTHISBIT.webone.com.au>
	<7xzn96drse.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <408630C3.2BD8F7CE@netsurf.de>

Aloha,

Paul Rubin schrieb:
> Simon Burton <simonb at NOTTHISBIT.webone.com.au> writes:
> > http://www.reportlab.org/
> > handles pdf files.
> Reportlab generates reports in pdf format, but I want to do the
> opposite, namely read in pdf files that have already been generated by
> a different program, and crunch on them.  Any more ideas?  Thanks.

The commercial version (reportlab.com) mentions a tool named
PageCatcher, that seems to be able to extract pages and page descriptions
out of .pdf documents. There is not that many information on the web-page.

If you read comp.text.tex you will find various solutions for composing
and a few for extracting data/content from .pdf documents. Afaik there
is at the moment (read as: i'm working on it) no free-self-contained-
python solution. But as python is very interface-friendly you can use
general tools like gs easily. 

For your problem i would suggest to use gs als a .pdf to .ps filter
in the first place, work on the .ps and distill back with gs.

Wishing a happy day
		LOBI


From joe at notcharles.ca  Sun Apr  4 00:22:14 2004
From: joe at notcharles.ca (Joe Mason)
Date: Sun, 04 Apr 2004 05:22:14 GMT
Subject: Python is faster than C
References: <406F0907.96F37EA1@tunes.org> <7xy8pcogaa.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<406F454B.C4CC8063@tunes.org> <7xekr4vdek.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<406F5E95.EBE6D3E8@tunes.org>
Message-ID: <slrnc6v55t.5mq.joe@gate.notcharles.ca>

In article <406F5E95.EBE6D3E8 at tunes.org>, Armin Rigo wrote:
> Another example would be 'a'*999999999: the result is a string, but
> there is no reason that it takes 100MB of memory.  Instead, store it
> into a C structure that contains a pointer to the original string object
> 'a' and the repetition counter, but still give this C structure the
> Python type str, so that the difference doesn't show up and the Python
> language remains simple.  (This is a bit difficult to implement
> currently in CPython, but not impossible.)

What this does is makes the interpreter more complicated for features
that not all programs will use.  Only a very few programs will have long
strings of repeated characters, and it's reasonable to ask them to
implement their own stringlike class if they really want it.  

If this is built into the interpreter, then either it's an optional
feature, in which case all those programs that rely on it to be remotely
memory-efficient aren't portable, or it requires every single
implementation to include it, including the PalmOS port and the one
that's supposed to run on cell phones.

Joe


From stach at fr.pl  Fri Apr 16 09:13:48 2004
From: stach at fr.pl (Krzysztof Stachlewski)
Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2004 15:13:48 +0200
Subject: md5.hexdigest() converting unicode string to ascii
References: <77b925de.0404151450.5c1f720a@posting.google.com><c5ohp8$fqf$1@absinth.dialog.net.pl>
	<mailman.687.1082117438.20120.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <c5om3d$iu4$1@absinth.dialog.net.pl>

"Fredrik Lundh" <fredrik at pythonware.com> wrote in message
news:mailman.687.1082117438.20120.python-list at python.org...

> (unicode characters are characters too, you know...)

You're right. :-)

Stach



From osv at javad.ru  Thu Apr 22 07:10:48 2004
From: osv at javad.ru (Sergei Organov)
Date: 22 Apr 2004 15:10:48 +0400
Subject: CamelCase versus wide_names (Prothon)
References: <UHxfc.9323$dZ1.3740@fed1read04>
	<6ee58e07.0404192141.2229efd6@posting.google.com>
	<c62e05$6oraj$1@ID-99293.news.uni-berlin.de>
	<i93hc.13733$dZ1.8818@fed1read04>
	<mailman.789.1082458674.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<1082549174.163233@ns.topconrd.ru>
	<slrnc8d8u3.hsh.ramen@lackingtalent.com>
Message-ID: <1082632248.524260@ns.topconrd.ru>

Dave Benjamin <ramen at lackingtalent.com> writes:
> In article <1082549174.163233 at ns.topconrd.ru>, Sergei Organov wrote:
[...]
> > Yet nobody mentioned that we don't have lower-case digits ;)
> > 
> > usb201_driver <-> usb201Driver <-> usb2??Driver
> 
> Hey, as long as Perl is adding French quotes to the language, why don't we
> dig around in Unicode for some lower case numerals? I bet you could find
> some if you looked hard enough, in between the Klingon alphabet and
> Dingbats 47 perhaps... =)

Or we can use underscore in this case: 'usb201_Driver', where underscore
means "camelize previous number" :)


From peter.maas at mplusr.de  Fri Apr  2 11:08:51 2004
From: peter.maas at mplusr.de (Peter Maas)
Date: Fri, 02 Apr 2004 18:08:51 +0200
Subject: Python conference slogan
In-Reply-To: <tyflllez9hw.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
References: <mailman.189.1080759511.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<kmjsj1-89u.ln1@snout.lairds.org> <c4glmq$j1i$1@swifty.westend.com>
	<30260531.0404010833.1b834032@posting.google.com>
	<406C4DDF.5000907@zope.com>
	<mailman.259.1080890435.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<c4jj1i$f6g$1@swifty.westend.com>
	<tyflllez9hw.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
Message-ID: <c4k33o$dv$1@swifty.westend.com>

Jacek Generowicz wrote:
> Peter Maas <peter.maas at mplusr.de> writes:
> 
> 
>>These slogans are meaningless to (Monty) Python outsiders.
[..]
> A previous slogan was:
> 
>    Python: Programming the way Guido indented it.
> 
> Pretty meaningless to Python outsiders, I'd say.

No. Because an outsider will read 'intended it', at least I did.
And that's not wrong, either :) The first poster (at least in my
news reader) didn't tell anything about the purpose. For me a
slogan's purpose is advertising and it's useless to advertise
Python to people who like it already.

Mit freundlichen Gruessen,

Peter Maas

-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Peter Maas, M+R Infosysteme, D-52070 Aachen, Hubert-Wienen-Str. 24
Tel +49-241-93878-0 Fax +49-241-93878-20 eMail peter.maas at mplusr.de
-------------------------------------------------------------------


From loic at yermat.net1.nerim.net  Wed Apr 28 15:38:57 2004
From: loic at yermat.net1.nerim.net (Yermat)
Date: Wed, 28 Apr 2004 21:38:57 +0200
Subject: Path ... where is my application's home dir?
In-Reply-To: <p8WdnYsB5t5PmQ3dRVn-hw@powergate.ca>
References: <mailman.81.1083164606.25742.python-list@python.org>
	<Xns94D9B0A6BEE74duncanrcpcouk@127.0.0.1>
	<c6ovte$5im$1@biggoron.nerim.net>
	<p8WdnYsB5t5PmQ3dRVn-hw@powergate.ca>
Message-ID: <c6p162$6b1$1@biggoron.nerim.net>

Peter Hansen a ?crit :

> Yermat wrote:
> 
>> Duncan Booth a ?crit :
>> And for the user dir, you can do (at least on Win2000, not try 
>> elsewhere) :
>> os.getenv('HOMEDRIVE') + os.getenv('HOMEPATH')
> 
> 
> Also works on WinXP. (And the last statistic I saw showed Win98
> users at something like 2% of the Windows-using population,
> so perhaps we can almost forget about it...  ?)
> 
> -Peter

Good point !

Browsing old messages from clp in google. It seems the only way to do 
this on win98 is to read it in the registry...

-- 
Yermat



From Scott.Daniels at Acm.Org  Sun Apr  4 17:32:12 2004
From: Scott.Daniels at Acm.Org (Scott David Daniels)
Date: Sun, 04 Apr 2004 14:32:12 -0700
Subject: Difference between default arguments and keyword arguments
In-Reply-To: <7vUbc.11592$yN6.3751@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net>
References: <UmTbc.9904$NL4.4809@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net>
	<406FFEAF.3080400@netscape.net>
	<7vUbc.11592$yN6.3751@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <40707EDC.8090004@Acm.Org>

Edward Diener wrote:
> ... Makes sense. Thanks ! The tutorial should explain it more clearly.

Right now you know what is confusing about the tutorial.  _Please_ take
the time to propose a fix to the tutorial -- you have an "impertise" (as
opposed to "expertise") that tells you confusing interpretations of the
text of the tutorial.  Once you just know" this stuff, you won't be able
to know what is confusing.  So the time you spend, _right_now_ is the
most valuable contribution you can make to Python for a while.  Help
us improve our documents.

-- 
-Scott David Daniels
Scott.Daniels at Acm.Org


From devnull at example.com  Mon Apr 26 23:00:57 2004
From: devnull at example.com (Derek Fountain)
Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2004 11:00:57 +0800
Subject: 404 errors
Message-ID: <408dcc25$0$16577$5a62ac22@freenews.iinet.net.au>

I'm probably a bit off topic with this, but I'm not sure where else to ask.
Hopefully someone here will know the answer.

I'm writing a script (in Python) which reads a webpage from a user supplied
URL using urllib.urlopen. I want to detect an error from the server. If the
server doesn't exist, that's easy - catch the IOError. However, if the
server exists, but the path in the URL is wrong, how do I detect the error?
Some servers respond with a nicely formatted bit of HTML explaining the
problem, which is fine for a human, but not for a script. Is there some
flag or something definitive on the response which says "this is a 404
error"?


From mark at prothon.org  Wed Apr 21 14:25:48 2004
From: mark at prothon.org (Mark Hahn)
Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2004 11:25:48 -0700
Subject: CamelCase versus wide_names (Prothon)
References: <UHxfc.9323$dZ1.3740@fed1read04>
	<407ec022$0$54153$1b2cd167@news.wanadoo.nl>
	<roy-C4FD90.13444715042004@reader2.panix.com>
	<b9Afc.9345$dZ1.7703@fed1read04>
	<geoc80tveo7uja595bti95q0dlslsjmcq5@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <M0zhc.19121$dZ1.13729@fed1read04>


"Christos TZOTZIOY Georgiou" <tzot at sil-tec.gr> wrote ...

> you'll have to be more firm and decisive, I hope you know that...

You've chosen an interesting time to make that comment.  Before Prothon I've
had zero experience moderating anything, much less the barrage of opinions
that come into the language design process.

When I first started I thought everyone's opnion mattered and that I had the
job of merging eveyone's ideas into a grand scheme that made everyone happy
<hearty laugh>.  Now I am discovering that everyone has there own agenda and
that to a certain degree the more we discuss, the more people polarize
around their own agenda instead of converging on a shared solution.  We have
idea's that range from pure Self, to pure Python, to pure Lisp, to pure
original Prothon.

I think I have recently found a smattering of people who really do go with
the flow and we are starting to make some real progress (knock on wood).
The good news is that ultimately I have the BDFL powers and can use them
when needed.  Just having the power is what is important.  It is not the
using of them that is important.




From herrn at gmx.net  Tue Apr  6 16:52:54 2004
From: herrn at gmx.net (Marco Herrn)
Date: 6 Apr 2004 20:52:54 GMT
Subject: user authentication via /etc/passwd|/etc/shadow
References: <c4ork9$2kssti$1@ID-165840.news.uni-berlin.de>
	<c4phmr$k6i$04$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <c4v5b6$2lvqkn$1@ID-165840.news.uni-berlin.de>

On 2004-04-04, Martin v. L?wis <martin at v.loewis.de> wrote:
> You need a combination of the pwd and crypt modules. Lookup the name
> of the user using the pwd module, and fetch the encrypted password.
> Then use crypt.crypt for encryption; use the first two letters of
> the encrypted password as the salt.
>
> Be aware that some installations use MD5 passwords, which can be
> recognized by starting with $1$ (or some such).

A question to this md5 and sha1 hashed passwords. The python modules for
these are different to the crypt module. Especially there is no salt. So
how would I compare a given password to a given hash? Just rehash the
password? Would the hash always be the same? I thought the salt was
there to improve security.

And how can I distinguish a these hash methods? For example I have a
hash. How do I find out which hash method was used for this? As I have
seen md5 hashs are always 128 bit long. When I have such a hash in hex
form, can I say if that hash string has a length of 32 it is definitely
a md5 hash, a length of 40 indicating a sha hash and a length of 13
indicating a crypt() hash?
And what about the prefix $1$ for md5? When this is available just cut
it off the hash? Are there any other forms of such prefixes? 

Sorry for this lot of questions. ;-)
Marco


-- 
Marco Herrn             herrn at gmx.net
(GnuPG/PGP-signed and crypted mail preferred)
Key ID: 0x94620736



From michele.simionato at poste.it  Sun Apr  4 09:48:30 2004
From: michele.simionato at poste.it (Michele Simionato)
Date: 4 Apr 2004 06:48:30 -0700
Subject: emergent/swarm/evolutionary systems etc
References: <c4aeq8$92a$1@hercules.btinternet.com>
	<c4btjr$8il$1@titan.btinternet.com>
	<c4ccs2$l9j$1@news.service.uci.edu>
	<c4hjp4$dg6$1@sparta.btinternet.com>
Message-ID: <95aa1afa.0404040548.47e7967f@posting.google.com>

"Peter MacKenzie" <peter9547 at btinternet.com> wrote in message news:<c4hjp4$dg6$1 at sparta.btinternet.com>...
> In addition to exams, I also must start a dissertation in July for my
> geography hon B.Sc.  Although I should ideally have found a subject two
> months ago, I've so far lacked any truly appealing project ideas (much to
> the consternation of my advisor).  Since reading 'Emergence', by Steven
> Johnson, and conducting prelimenary research on the matter, I've settled on
> the dissertation title: "Emergence theory as an approach to city design".
> 
> To this goal, I'd like to use computer modeling to simulate ways in which
> the spatial distribution of indicator phenomena in cities (land price/use,
> crime, demographic composition etc) is affected by bottom-up, local area
> rules.  Given that I have only a basic foothold on the language, does
> anybody foresee difficulties for me learning enough to impliment simple and
> experimentally flexible sim-city style simulations (minus fancy graphics and
> llamas) in no more than 2 months (to allow for time to conduct actual
> experiments + field observations etc)?  I would be able to engender aid from
> various staff, and the university library should carry titles on the
> subject.  Failing that, I could do it the old fashioned way and buy a how-to
> book, but I'd like some opinions on the difficulty of the goal from people
> who've already trancended the non-programmer/programmer barrier.

I would suggest you to forget about this project and to spend those two
months in learning the basis of Python. IMO learning a programming language
will do to your mind a far better good than learning a spreadsheet.
Having said so, it is ok if you keep this project in the back of your mind 
while you learn programming, but do not expect you can finish it in a couple
of months starting from scratch, without guidance and not working on it full
time. OTOH, a couple of months is enough to get the basics of programming
(which is not the same as becoming a programmer). I would estimate the time 
to get a minimal understanding of modern programming in one year. Still,
notice that I estimate the time to write your first useful program in Python
in five minutes, so you will get back something from your effort immediately.
This is the nice thing about programming. The bad thing are bugs, that you
will get well before the first five minutes ;)

           Michele Simionato


From sholden at holdenweb.com  Fri Apr 30 12:40:48 2004
From: sholden at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2004 12:40:48 -0400
Subject: Python Image Library (PIL) build error on Cygwin
In-Reply-To: <mailman.127.1083272332.25742.python-list@python.org>
References: <tBdkc.8799$f_5.5103@lakeread01>
	<mailman.127.1083272332.25742.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <40928190.5060004@holdenweb.com>

Jason Tishler wrote:
> Steve,
> 
> On Thu, Apr 29, 2004 at 04:31:54PM -0400, Steve Holden wrote:
> 
>>Does anyone know the workaround for this error, encountered when
>>trying to build PIL 1.1.4 from source under cygwin (Python 2.3.3)?
> 
> 
> Rebasing your system should fix the problem.  See the following:
> 
>     http://www.tishler.net/jason/software/rebase/rebase-2.3.README
> 
> Jason
> 
Yup, now I can't find the Tk library, but the load errors are gone and 
the rest is fixable. This all seems very esoteric, I'm glad it's going 
away ...

regards
  Steve


From paddy3118 at netscape.net  Thu Apr 15 23:29:29 2004
From: paddy3118 at netscape.net (Paddy McCarthy)
Date: 15 Apr 2004 20:29:29 -0700
Subject: Simple db using list comprehensions
References: <246a4e07.0404050626.153ff525@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <2ae25c6b.0404151929.409f9be5@posting.google.com>

frank at chagford.com (Frank Millman) wrote in message news:<246a4e07.0404050626.153ff525 at posting.google.com>...
> Hi all
> 
> From time to time there is a request for a simple way of storing and
> accessing data without using a full SQL database.
> 
> I had this requirement recently, and I was pleasantly surprised by how
> much I could achieve with a simple Python list and list
> comprehensions.
> 
> Assume the need to store data consisting of first name, surname and
> phone number. To ensure uniqueness, I use an additional column to
> store a unique id, which can just be a 'next number'.
> 
> To create the table -
> 	table = []
> 
> To initialise it with a couple of rows -
> 	table.append([1,'Frank','Millman',12345])
> 	table.append([2,'John','Smith',54321])

I like the idea but think you should have a definition of something 
like - 
  INDEX,FIRSTNAME,SURNAME,PHONE = range(4)
You should use the names instead of all the 'magic' constants 
below when referring to fields in rows.

Cheers, Paddy.

> 
> To get the last id used -
> 	last_id = max([row[0] for row in table])
> 
> Alternatively, if you know the rows are in id sequence -
> 	last_id = table[-1][0]
> 
> To add a new row -
> 	firstname = 'Fred'
> 	surname = 'Jones'
> 	phone = 23456
> 
> First, ensure first name and surname are unique -
> 	rows = [row for row in table if row[1] == firstname and row[2] ==
> surname]
> 	if len(rows):
> 		errmsg = 'Already exists'
> 
> If ok, add the row -
> 	last_id += 1
> 	table.append([last_id,firstname,surname,phone])
> 
> To select all rows according to some criteria (eg surnames starting
> with 'M') -
> 	rows = [row for row in table if row[2][0] == 'M']
> 
> If you need a copy of the rows -
> 	rows = [row[:] for row in table if row[2][0] == 'M']
> 
> To sort the rows in surname sequence -
> 	rows = [[row[2],row] for row in rows]  # prepend surname to row for
> sorting
> 	rows.sort()
> 	rows = [row[1] for row in rows]  # remove prepended surname
> 
> To select and sort at the same time -
> 	rows = [[row[2],row] for row in table if row[2][0] == 'M']
> 	rows.sort()
> 	rows = [row[1] for row in rows]
> 
> To amend a phone number if you know the first name and surname -
> 	rows = [row for row in table if row[1] == 'Fred'  and row[2] ==
> 'Jones']
>       if not rows:
> 		errmsg = 'not found'
> 	elif len(rows) > 1:
> 		errmsg = 'more than one row found'
> 	else:
> 		rows[0][3] = phone
> 
> To delete a row if you know the first name and surname -
> 	rows = [row for row in table if row[1] == 'Fred'  and row[2] ==
> 'Jones']
>       if not rows:
> 		errmsg = 'not found'
> 	elif len(rows) > 1:
> 		errmsg = 'more than one row found'
> 	else:
> 		pos = [row[0] for row in table].index(rows[0][0])
> 		del table[pos]
> 
> To delete all rows with a phone number of 0 -
> 	ids = [row[0] for row in table]
> 	rows = [row[0] for row in table if row[3] == 0]
> 	for row in rows:
> 		pos = ids.index(row)
> 		del table[pos]
> 		del ids[pos]
> 
> I have not tested all of these, but you get the idea.
> 
> I did not have to save the data, but if you need to, I am sure you can
> pickle it.
> 
> Hope this is of interest.
> 
> Frank Millman


From walter at livinglogic.de  Sat Apr  3 04:30:02 2004
From: walter at livinglogic.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Walter_D=F6rwald?=)
Date: Sat, 03 Apr 2004 11:30:02 +0200
Subject: HTML writer
In-Reply-To: <lUubc.17806$pq2.8384@newssvr27.news.prodigy.com>
References: <yL9bc.45202$wH3.33614@newssvr25.news.prodigy.com>
	<406D3C97.7020006@livinglogic.de>
	<lUubc.17806$pq2.8384@newssvr27.news.prodigy.com>
Message-ID: <406E841A.2040700@livinglogic.de>

Moosebumps wrote:

> "Walter D?rwald" <walter at livinglogic.de> wrote in message
> news:406D3C97.7020006 at livinglogic.de...
>
 >> [...]
>>
>>There are several possible HTML generators for Python:
>>HTMLgen http://starship.python.net/crew/friedrich/HTMLgen/html/main.html
>>HyperText http://dustman.net/andy/python/HyperText/
>>XIST http://www.livinglogic.de/Python/xist/
> 
> 
> Thanks for those links, they look like what I'm looking for.  Does anyone
> have any comment on which one of these requires you to have the least amount
> specific web programming knowledge?

Each of them requires you to know what the HTML tags mean.

> i.e. I know basic HTML, and I am an
> experienced C programmer, but haven't really delved into the specifics of
> it... never really wanted to clutter up my mind with the alphabet soup of
> web programming  : ).  I was thinking that there was some Python library
> that would wrap the functionality of these languages in some nice consistent
> OO python interface.  It looks like all of these are exactly that, from what
> I gather, which is great.
> 
> That is, I would not like any specific HTML tags anywhere in my own code,
> and it seems like that is what they will allow me to do.  But I would be
> interested to hear opinions/experiences with these packages.

As the author of XIST I'm naturally biased, but one advantange of XIST
is that it's still actively maintained. HTMLgen and HyperText don't
seem to be.

To see an example take a look at
http://www.livinglogic.de/viewcvs/index.cgi/LivingLogic/xist/HOWTO.xml.
This XML file doesn't contain any HTML tags, but gets converted to
HTML (see http://www.livinglogic.de/Python/xist/Howto.html), to
XSL-FO (see http://www.livinglogic.de/Python/xist/Howto.fo) and
PDF (see http://www.livinglogic.de/Python/xist/Howto.pdf)

HTH,
    Walter D?rwald



From scs2paw at leeds.ac.uk  Mon Apr 19 09:27:37 2004
From: scs2paw at leeds.ac.uk (Paul A. Wilson)
Date: 19 Apr 2004 06:27:37 -0700
Subject: Tkinter Button command query
Message-ID: <bef436e6.0404190527.3d4b2cf6@posting.google.com>

I'm new to Tkinter programming and am having trouble creating a
reusable button bar... I want to be able to feed my class a dictionary
of button names and function names, which the class will make.

My button bar is implemented a Frame subclass, which takes the button
dictionary as an argument and displays the buttons on the screen:

class OptionsBar(Frame):
   def __init__(self, buttonDict, parent=None)
      Frame.__init__(self, parent)
      parent.someFunction()    # This works fine
      for (name, command) in buttonDict.items():
         Button(self, text=name, command=command).pack(side=TOP,
fill=BOTH)

and then another Frame subclass, e.g. MyWindow, uses the bar as
follows:

   self.buttonDict = {'Button1':'someFunction',
                      'Button2':'otherFunction'}
   ...
   myBar = OptionsBar(parent=self, buttonDict=self.buttonDict)
   myBar.pack(side=RIGHT)
   ...

   def someFunction():
     do button stuff

My problem is that the Button instances aren't calling the correct
functions when pressed. Is there anyway I get Button to call its
parent frame's parent frame's functions? I've tried using

   self.buttonDict = {'Button1':'parent.someFunction',
                      'Button2':'parent.otherFunction'}

but to no avail. Hope my explanations make sense.

Any suggestions? 

Cheers
PAW


From sarge at arena.invalid  Wed Apr 28 19:24:19 2004
From: sarge at arena.invalid (Sarge)
Date: Wed, 28 Apr 2004 23:24:19 GMT
Subject: MATLAB2Python
Message-ID: <D2Xjc.28117$Qc.1080799@twister1.libero.it>

Hi, everybody!
I'm a moderately experienced programmer in Matlab, and looking for a 
free computational language (Matlab is *REALLY* expensive for an 
individual, like me).
I came across Python (actually Scipy) and immediately felt 
comfortable with the interface and syntax.
I'm still a newbe, so, before attempting a serious work on it, I'd 
like to hear any opinion about migration from Matlab to Python, and 
also a rough comparison between these two languages.

Thanx in advance, and excuse me for my very bad English (I'm not a 
native English speaker),

Sarge


From mh at pixar.com  Fri Apr 23 15:01:12 2004
From: mh at pixar.com (Mark Harrison)
Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2004 19:01:12 GMT
Subject: Goodbye TCL
References: <0LudnSads6NmpuPdRVn-vw@centurytel.net>
	<21ccedf1.0404160639.14c2d852@posting.google.com>
	<1080ml0hdpp6tdf@corp.supernews.com>
	<c60i7t$2aff$1@godfrey.mcc.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <YJdic.55270$qP.2509@newssvr25.news.prodigy.com>

In comp.lang.tcl Donal K. Fellows <donal.k.fellows at man.ac.uk> wrote:
> Cameron Laird wrote:
> > 'Different way to say this:  "database", in this sense, is a dirty
> > subject, in that it's far more tied to grungy details of specific
> > implementations than the masses generally realize, or than either
> > Python or Tcl, both of which prize purity in their own ways,
> > generally support. A general database abstraction is about as
> > rarefied as a general GUI abstraction.
> 
> I had a quick look into general DB APIs in the past, and the response I
> got from the DB community at the time was "but this doesn't support this
> *vital* feature only implemented in one DB that 0.01% of users really
> need and therefore we could never ever use your proposal for a standard
> API".  It's kind of discouraging.
> 
> FWIW, I think some mostly-common subset of functionality is possible (if
> we assume SQL underneath; without that, you can't get anywhere) and it
> would be enough to get most of the low-end and casual users total
> satisfaction. And maybe this would encourage alteration in the high-end
> interfaces to be more like each other too.
> 
> Donal.
> 

Python has a nice relational database API standard, which
seems to be well implemented across several databases, although
I've only used the postgresql one myself.

http://www.python.org/peps/pep-0249.html

Cheers,
Mark

-- 
Mark Harrison
Pixar Animation Studios



From no_replies at fake_email_address.invalid  Thu Apr  1 13:32:12 2004
From: no_replies at fake_email_address.invalid (Robert Oschler)
Date: Thu, 1 Apr 2004 13:32:12 -0500
Subject: [OT] WARNING! - Dangerous new e-mail virus!
Message-ID: <vaZac.1712$ts4.1563@bignews3.bellsouth.net>

"A deadly new computer virus that is spreading rapidly by e-mail has already
caused massive damage to thousands of unprotected computers worldwide.  The
virus is rumored to be the deadly brainchild of renegade microbiology
scientists, who have figured out how to cross the barrier from the digital
world to the analog, and create a real biological virus on the victim's
computer.  For an actual photo of a ravaged computer, and further details on
this frightening new virus, visit http://www.robotsrule.com/ ".


-- sec.alert.





From skip at pobox.com  Mon Apr 12 22:56:07 2004
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2004 21:56:07 -0500
Subject: print u"\u0432": why is this so hard? UnciodeEncodeError
In-Reply-To: <c5en2q$mjl$01$1@news.t-online.com>
References: <cpa4qrvb529.fsf@cabernet.nelson.monkey.org>
	<c52lu9$j8c$03$1@news.t-online.com>
	<eppstein-55126D.00202008042004@news.service.uci.edu>
	<c546v4$bi5$02$1@news.t-online.com>
	<m38yh3hhxv.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk>
	<c5cgq3$tps$00$1@news.t-online.com>
	<16505.58626.39783.581506@montanaro.dyndns.org>
	<c5en2q$mjl$01$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <16507.22215.60324.63839@montanaro.dyndns.org>


    Skip> I generally use xterm instead of Terminal.app.  I think it's
    Skip> encoding is latin-1.

    Martin> Not on OS X.

I run xterms under XDarwin.  I don't think the default encoding is different
than xterms in any other X environment.  If I execute

    print u'\xed'.encode("latin-1")

in an xterm I get an accented "i".  If I execute

    print u'\xed'.encode("utf-8")

in a Terminal window I also get an accented "i".

Skip



From matthew at coredumps.net  Fri Apr 16 01:54:24 2004
From: matthew at coredumps.net (Matthew)
Date: 15 Apr 2004 22:54:24 -0700
Subject: [Newbie Q on String & List Manipulation]
References: <567a7c35.0404150247.7809bef5@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <567a7c35.0404152154.1645e79d@posting.google.com>

Hello all,

    finally, i found a way to make to a+=b works,
    but, i don't understand why it works... ;(

    i changed the script from:

        for item in thecookies:
            mycookies += item

    to:

        for item in thecookies:
            mycookies += repr(item)

    and thing works fine.

    i've also check the "type" of both the "item" &
    "mycookies" and they both are "str".

    i don't understand why i need to use the repr to
    make it work...

    sigh...

---
matthew


From tjreedy at udel.edu  Thu Apr 29 22:04:49 2004
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Thu, 29 Apr 2004 22:04:49 -0400
Subject: Andreas' practical language comparison
References: <c6glig$phm$07$4@news.t-online.com><TrGdnVUrJdjsahbdRVn-iQ@powergate.ca><c6gu81$pk6$05$2@news.t-online.com><408c23b8$0$41746$5fc3050@dreader2.news.tiscali.nl><5ago80thlgfrsrapol1lldi2cq0uulto4n@4ax.com>
	<873c6m5vrq.fsf@pobox.com>
Message-ID: <c6sc7p$m13$1@sea.gmane.org>

> I think there's an n-queens solution by Tim Peters somewhere, written
> as an example of Python simple generators (which is mostly 'his'
> language feature, IIRC).

It is in Lib/test/test_generators.py.   It also has other examples of fancy
footwork with generators .  Anyone interested in the topic should read it.

Terry J. Reedy






From lbates at swamisoft.com  Fri Apr 30 19:09:43 2004
From: lbates at swamisoft.com (Larry Bates)
Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2004 18:09:43 -0500
Subject: IDE for Python
References: <mailman.164.1083359859.25742.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <apudnUU9XMspQQ_dRVn-ig@comcast.com>


Take a look at www.activestate.com for their products.
Some are free, some are charge items.

Also take a look at:

http://www-106.ibm.com/developerworks/linux/library/l-pide/

many products reviewed/listed here.

Larry Bates
Syscon, Inc.


"dont bother" <dontbotherworld at yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:mailman.164.1083359859.25742.python-list at python.org...
> Hi Guys:
> Is there any good IDE for Python. I checked on
> www.python.org and found some. Installed bluefish but
> to my surprise its just an editor. I guess it cannot
> even compile my code in python or maybe I am wrong.
> Any ideas/recommendations for a free IDE for Python
> Thanks
> Dont
>
>
>
>
> __________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! HotJobs
> http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/careermakeover
>




From usenet_spam at janc.invalid  Tue Apr 13 21:43:36 2004
From: usenet_spam at janc.invalid (JanC)
Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2004 01:43:36 GMT
Subject: Making urllib2 work with proxy urls
References: <84fc4588.0404130351.77a1faf0@posting.google.com>
	<30260531.0404131454.49adec6d@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <Xns94CB25E909B56JanC@213.119.4.35>

simoninusa2001 at yahoo.co.uk (simo) schreef:

> The pac file is usually just a script with the config data for
> browsers, it will return something like "PROXY
> http-proxy.mydomain.com:80"
> 
> I very much doubt urllib2 can actually proces the .pac file.
> 
> You should be able to open that file and figure out what you need to
> set the proxy variable to in urllib2 (or your ENVironment).

A PAC file is a script that defines a JavaScript function:

function FindProxyForURL(url, host) {
    // based on url & host:
    // return "DIRECT" to use no proxy, or something like
    // return "PROXY proxy.example.com:8080" to use that proxy
}

This function can get quite complex, so to use it automaticly, you might 
need a JavaScript engine...

-- 
JanC

"Be strict when sending and tolerant when receiving."
RFC 1958 - Architectural Principles of the Internet - section 3.9


From project2501 at project2501.cor  Mon Apr 12 19:24:26 2004
From: project2501 at project2501.cor (Project2501)
Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2004 00:24:26 +0100
Subject: unexpected performance from threads and network client benchmarking
Message-ID: <pan.2004.04.12.23.24.25.608986@project2501.cor>

i'm a little puzzled by the received wisdom of python threads.

the wisdom says that you will not see any performance increase from the
use of threads on the client side trying to it a server (high request rate).

this is explained in terms of the GIL..

but i do see a difference... on python 2.3 on freebsd4.9 and linux 2.6

here is  the pseudocode:

loop:
	create a thread which will query a server and wait for response
	sleep(for interval)

that's it. the interval in the sleep does change in steps over time. the
threads themselves are passes the current time.time() and they themslves
take the difference between this time and the time.time at which the
response was received. (with a timeout). threads are created up to a given
maximum (finished threads decrement a global counter).

ok - now the interesting bit.

with a maximum of one client thread at a time, the graphs responce time
against the time.time() (at thread creation) are largely flat but with
random jumps... 

as more client threads are allowed, the graphs become smoother with
generally higher peak responce times ... and show:

  * initial flat response time - good, server is able to cope nicely
  * increase (almost linear) as the rate increases - server is queueing
    requests? or is taking longer to schedule more requests. whatever.
  * again, a flat rate at high request rates. possible client limit.
    perhaps reaching time/scheduler resolution of the python runtime?

there is higher responce time from the server as more client threads
attack it - why? if they can only execute one at a time? isi t because the
switching between them is quicker than the creation of a new attack thread
when there a max of 1 (sequential client)?

the target server is single threaded (radiator radius server, is well
known as single threaded and sequential)- it handles requests
sequentially! the client and server machines are also uni-processor.

Does this mean that there is a benefit to python threads? i'm puzzled! why
the benefit in responce times?


From jjl at pobox.com  Thu Apr 22 17:40:47 2004
From: jjl at pobox.com (John J. Lee)
Date: 22 Apr 2004 22:40:47 +0100
Subject: Generic constructors and duplication of internal Python logic
References: <87ekqq41ya.fsf@pobox.com>
	<95aa1afa.0404150033.79a53e1a@posting.google.com>
	<87k70bzlak.fsf@pobox.com>
	<95aa1afa.0404192008.3a9da567@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <87fzavelnk.fsf@pobox.com>

michele.simionato at poste.it (Michele Simionato) writes:

> jjl at pobox.com (John J. Lee) wrote in message news:<87k70bzlak.fsf at pobox.com>...
> > michele.simionato at poste.it (Michele Simionato) writes:
> > > Have you thought of performing the checks in the __call__ method
> > > of a custom metaclass?
> > 
> > No.  How would that help?
> 
> I had in mind something like that:
> 
> class _WithConstructorChecked(type): # helper metaclass
>     def __call__(cls, *args, **kw):
>         assert len(args)<=2, "%s called with more than 2 args" % cls
>         assert kw.has_key("kw"), "%s needs a 'kw=' argument" % cls 
>         return super(_WithConstructorChecked,cls).__call__(*args,**kw)
> 
> class WithConstructorChecked(object): # mixin class
>     __metaclass__ = _WithConstructorChecked
> 
> class C(WithConstructorChecked):   
>     def __init__(self, *args, **kw):
>         pass
> 
> c=C(1,2,kw=3) # ok; try different signatures to get assertion errors
> 
> In this example the mixin class WithConstructorChecked ensures that C is 
> called with at least two positional arguments and a keyword argument named 
> 'kw'. The code of class C is not touched at all, you just add 
> WithConstructorChecked to the list of its bases.
> 
> Is that what you are looking for?

No. :-)

See my replies to Peter: I'm trying to re-use Python's own knowledge
of to get attributes assigned, without repetition (see my original
post for the kind of repetition that motivated me), and without simply
liberally assigning as attributes any old arguments that get passed
in.  Seems like it's not possible, though.  I don't see how a
metaclass helps here.


John


From markus_wankusGETRIDOFALLCAPS at hotmail.com  Fri Apr  2 08:29:28 2004
From: markus_wankusGETRIDOFALLCAPS at hotmail.com (Markus Wankus)
Date: Fri, 02 Apr 2004 08:29:28 -0500
Subject: [OT] Top posting is a PITA [was : Prothon Prototypes vs Python
 Classes]
In-Reply-To: <tyfbrma23js.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
References: <569c605ld1cj8fc1emolk08ete0s1prls1@4ax.com>
	<v0r9c.38988$cx5.22021@fed1read04>
	<106di86neu1qh4d@news.supernews.com>
	<AHF9c.49048$cx5.33872@fed1read04> <c4akqh$gml$1@panix2.panix.com>
	<Sz8ac.68272$cx5.62681@fed1read04>
	<mailman.115.1080652873.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<4069a001$0$4237$afc38c87@news.easynet.co.uk>
	<4069e9d9$0$8915$636a15ce@news.free.fr>
	<406a98ee$0$290$edfadb0f@dread12.news.tele.dk>
	<mailman.166.1080729074.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<mpjl60hsp95qo5evu620t6kj1u0auplb68@4ax.com>
	<zyFac.57608$1A6.1296027@news20.bellglobal.com>
	<tyfr7v814ah.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
	<_QUac.63300$1A6.1594640@news20.bellglobal.com>
	<tyfbrma23js.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
Message-ID: <1Vdbc.20271$j57.1135407@news20.bellglobal.com>

Jacek Generowicz wrote:
> Markus Wankus <markus_wankusGETRIDOFALLCAPS at hotmail.com> writes:
> 
> 
>>Geez..you can't even joke about this apparently.  OK.  Whatever.  I'm
>>easy.  I *did* get the point BTW...
> 
> 
> Cool. Sorry ... I've been away for a few days ... and having to wade
> through a lot of top-posted crap on my return has made my tolerance
> of TPing come close to an all-time low ... which is accompanied by a
> sense of humour failure.
> 
> I'm off to sit in a sensory deprivation tank for a few hours.

Well - I guess I was being a bit of a dolt too...sorry.  ;o)

Let's all sit in our sensory deprivation tanks!  That sounds like fun! 
Who here can construct metaclasses in the dark, in their head?

Markus.


From jcarlson at uci.edu  Wed Apr  7 01:11:58 2004
From: jcarlson at uci.edu (Josiah Carlson)
Date: Tue, 06 Apr 2004 22:11:58 -0700
Subject: GUI Frameworks in Python?
In-Reply-To: <d86dnW_ktOblWu_dRVn-sQ@comcast.com>
References: <mailman.102.1080629227.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<930ba99a.0404030246.786455f5@posting.google.com>
	<8ef9bea6.0404041009.26ae2683@posting.google.com>
	<c4tddj$2mjvdq$1@ID-169208.news.uni-berlin.de>
	<d86dnW_ktOblWu_dRVn-sQ@comcast.com>
Message-ID: <c502p8$qh3$1@news.service.uci.edu>

>> The basic idea is fairly similar in both, but event handlers
>> ("signal handlers" in Gtk terminology) seem more straightforward
>> to set up in PyGtk. In wxPython, for example, you have to get the
>> ID number of the widget and pass that to an event-binding function;
>> in PyGtk, you just pass the widget itself.
>>
>> That's just one example of how the PyGtk API is simpler. It might
>> not sound like much, but lots of little things like that add up
>> to make me like PyGtk much better.
> 
> 
> I know, I can't believe wxPython doesn't use a simpler API for things 
> like event binding rather than just sticking to the C++ api so closely. 
>  That's why people are creating their own wrappers to wxPython now. It's 
> ridiculous.  And yes, I know event binding was made slightly simpler for 
> 2.5.  2.5 also takes some steps backwards, in the name of being more 
> like the C++ api.

Simpler?  According to Greg, passing ids of the widget was a 
pain...well, in 2.5 you can pass the widget.  Apparently that is 
significant enough to warrant Greg complaining about it, and Robin Dunn 
to fix it.

What parts of the 2.4 to 2.5 conversion are steps backward?

  - Josiah


From eastier at free.fr  Wed Apr 21 09:11:36 2004
From: eastier at free.fr (Emmanuel)
Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2004 15:11:36 +0200
Subject: Reload All
Message-ID: <40867308.26DD15BD@free.fr>

Hi,


I use a 'reload all' feature in my app, that allow to reload every
module.

I first try this version :

import sys
def Reload():
    for a in sys.modules.values():
        if ( type(a) == type(sys) ):            # I can't remember why
            if ( '__file__' in dir ( a ) ):        # to avoid reload of
extending C module
                try:
##                    print a.__name__
                    reload ( a )
                except ImportError:
                    Log ("Reload", "error importing module" +
a.__name__)


but there are some cases where the order of the reload is important.
I came into this one :

CODE :
===============
Base.py
----------
class Base:
    def __init__(self):
        print "Base Init"

Derived.py
------------
import Base
class Derived( Base.Base):
    def __init__(self):
        Base.Base.__init__(self)
        print "Derived additional init"

In order to reload all to work, Base _MUST_ be reloaded before Derived.

So I continue with this code, modified from something I get on the forum
:
----------------------------------------------------
import inspect

def reload_from_root(root):
    if(not inspect.ismodule(root)):
        print 'root is not a module!!  Failing.'
        print type(root)

    #Keeping lists of pairs where pairs are (parent, child)
    #to establish module relationships and prevent
    #circular reloads
    reload_me = [(None, root)]
    reloaded = []

    while(len(reload_me) > 0):
        tmp = reload_me.pop()

        for x in inspect.getmembers(tmp[1]):
          if(inspect.ismodule(x[1])):
              if ( '__file__' in dir ( x[1] ) ):
                  if((tmp[1], getattr(tmp[1], x[0])) not in reloaded):
                      reload_me.append((tmp[1], getattr(tmp[1], x[0])))


##        reload(tmp[1])            # If I use reload here, the child is
always reloaded before the parent
        reloaded.append((tmp[0], tmp[1]))

    reloaded.reverse()
    TheReloaded = []
    for pair in reloaded:
        if (pair[1] not in TheReloaded ):        # Don't reload twice
the Base, else it can reload in this order :
                                                                # Base -
Derived1 - Base- Derived2
                                                                # and
Derived1 init will fails
            reload (pair[1])
            TheReloaded.append( pair[1])
----------------------------------------------------


This code solves my current problems, but I can imagine some possible
issue with two levels hierarchies.

So is there a perfect solution ?

Thanks by advance,

Emmanuel



From gruel at astro.ufl.edu  Thu Apr 15 13:33:13 2004
From: gruel at astro.ufl.edu (Nicolas Gruel)
Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2004 13:33:13 -0400
Subject: plot+interaction
In-Reply-To: <mailman.557.1081808256.20120.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.557.1081808256.20120.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <407ec75a$0$488$636a15ce@news.free.fr>

with ppgplot that must be possible to do this.

http://efault.net/npat/hacks/ppgplot/

	Nicolas

Mark Alford wrote:
> I have been using the gnuplot.py package for simple 2D plots.
> Works great. But I would like to have a tiny bit of interactivity:
> 
> I would like the program to know where (in terms of the
> plot variables x and y) the user has mouse-clicked on the plot window.
> 
> Is there any other plotting package that offers this functionality?
> 
> Mark
> 


From project5 at redrival.net  Fri Apr  9 09:19:04 2004
From: project5 at redrival.net (Andrei)
Date: Fri, 9 Apr 2004 15:19:04 +0200
Subject: Why Activestate Python ?
References: <8089854e.0404090025.141f090c@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <1afv95dy6164y.1a9l3etptcw8w.dlg@40tude.net>

Fuzzyman wrote on 9 Apr 2004 01:25:45 -0700:

> Again... a silly newbie question which might have an obvious
> answer.... but *why* is their an alternative distribution of python by
> activestate ?
> 
> Apart fromt he fact that they bundle Mark Hammond's Windows Extensions
> with it (in the windows version) - what is to be gained from using
> their distributio instead of the 'normal' one ?

You also get PythonWin and nice docs. Python might have good HTMLHelp
format docs by now as well, but last time I tried, there were many broken
things in it. At some point I was running an official Py2.3<something>
because ActiveState was a bit slow in releasing a 2.3 version, but I
continued to use the docs from ActiveState Py 2.2.X. Now I have their 2.3.2
distribution installed.

Apart from that, it's Python. Depending on what your usage pattern is, you
might not even notice what you have on your HD.

-- 
Yours,

Andrei

=====
Real contact info (decode with rot13):
cebwrpg5 at jnanqbb.ay. Fcnz-serr! Cyrnfr qb abg hfr va choyvp cbfgf. V ernq
gur yvfg, fb gurer'f ab arrq gb PP.


From joe at notcharles.ca  Mon Apr  5 23:47:03 2004
From: joe at notcharles.ca (Joe Mason)
Date: Tue, 06 Apr 2004 03:47:03 GMT
Subject: int('2.1') does not work while int(float('2.1')) does
References: <mailman.376.1081213637.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<40722555.66C70D40@alcyone.com>
Message-ID: <slrnc74a1l.bqf.joe@gate.notcharles.ca>

In article <40722555.66C70D40 at alcyone.com>, Erik Max Francis wrote:
> There's a fundamental difference between an int and a float.  If the
> string you're trying to convert looks like a float, that means it
> doesn't look like an int.
> 
> With your first example of '2.1', what should it mean?  Should it
> truncate, round to negative infinity round to positive infinity, round
> to zero, what?  Python can't guess for you, so it shouldn't try.  Thus
> it's an error.

Why can it make this guess for "int(2.1)", then?  It's got a rule for
converting floats to ints - why not use it here?

Joe


From martin at v.loewis.de  Thu Apr 29 22:30:34 2004
From: martin at v.loewis.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?=22Martin_v=2E_L=F6wis=22?=)
Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2004 04:30:34 +0200
Subject: locale.CODESET / different in python shell and scripts
In-Reply-To: <pan.2004.04.29.21.44.21.815390@phreaker.net>
References: <pan.2004.04.26.23.23.56.718739@phreaker.net>
	<c6mfs1$99j$01$1@news.t-online.com>
	<pan.2004.04.28.22.37.39.159529@phreaker.net>
	<4091621F.5060307@v.loewis.de>
	<pan.2004.04.29.21.44.21.815390@phreaker.net>
Message-ID: <4091BA4A.4000608@v.loewis.de>

Nuff Said wrote:
> When I add the following line to the above script
> 
>   print u"sch?nes M?dchen".encode(encoding)
> 
> the result is:
> 
>   sch?nes M?dchen    (with my self-compiled Python 2.3)
>   sch??nes M??dchen  (with Fedora's Python 2.2)
> 
> I observed, that my Python gives me (the correct value) 15 for
> len(u"sch?nes M?dchen") whereas Fedora's Python says 17 (one more
> for each German umlaut, i.e. the len of the UTF-8 representation of
> the string; observe, that the file uses the coding cookie for UTF-8).
> Maybe Fedora's Python was compiled without Unicode support?

Certainly not: It would not support u"" literals without Unicode.

Please understand that you can use non-ASCII characters in source
code unless you also use the facilities described in

http://www.python.org/peps/pep-0263.html

So instead of "?", you should write "\xf6".

> Is there something I do utterly wrong here? 

Yes, you are.

> Python can't be that complicated?

Python is not. Encodings are.

Regards,
Martin



From Mike at DeleteThis.Geary.com  Tue Apr  6 16:13:33 2004
From: Mike at DeleteThis.Geary.com (Michael Geary)
Date: Tue, 6 Apr 2004 13:13:33 -0700
Subject: Using python23 to develop an extension for an application that
	has python22 embedded
References: <aoa370h2r58lgb00jn9o1nfpg2titdgoss@4ax.com>
	<1073eeubflmchd5@corp.supernews.com>
	<o2g3709fpgp50sn561h0vf5e2dd6hcuo7g@4ax.com>
	<1073vcag51uufe9@corp.supernews.com>
	<ilb5701am2r6eej1riudbaolj1aphie6nb@4ax.com>
	<1075js9on4our07@corp.supernews.com>
	<dhv57054mo69d1v4a1pee4fdrbe9vf7oj7@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <10763relbrppace@corp.supernews.com>

John Underwood wrote:
> I tried a small extension DLL as a test using your suggestion.
> I could debug in VS.NET without the need of python22_d.dll
> which is all I need.
>
> Many thanks for the help.

Great! Glad it worked out.

Talk with you later,

Mike




From peter at engcorp.com  Mon Apr 12 07:18:47 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2004 07:18:47 -0400
Subject: maximum length of a list & tuple
In-Reply-To: <c5d7e1$iib$1@news.service.uci.edu>
References: <c54lq3$2pe1sf$1@ID-202776.news.uni-berlin.de>
	<bvednZaKK7OybejdRVn-iQ@centurytel.net>
	<c55okv$2o3eql$1@ID-202776.news.uni-berlin.de>
	<c59igu$hto$1@news.service.uci.edu>
	<hlhh70drqg7fhvn9e3keosdvdp01ulok7r@4ax.com>
	<c5avps$qh$1@news.service.uci.edu>
	<LKWdnSm0Fq4VZuTdRVn-ug@powergate.ca>
	<c5d7e1$iib$1@news.service.uci.edu>
Message-ID: <AtKdnTLAMJ2K5ufdRVn-vw@powergate.ca>

Josiah Carlson wrote:

>> Actually, unless I'm mistaken that stores only one integer, and a whole
>> lot of references to it...  which are just pointers (4 bytes each).
>>
>> The technique is probably flawed in other ways, however, as it
>> is likely subject to memory fragmentation and other problems.
> 
> You can't just store the integer.  How would you differentiate between 
> an integer in a list and a pointer?  Answer: you must use PyIntObjects. 
>  Use the source.

Python does not recognize anything called "pointers" at the language
level, only internally.

What I was saying is that the only PyIntObject created was one with
the ob_ival of 1.  Then a list containing one pointer to it was
created.  Then it was replicated "c" times.  Only one integer.

Please refute that claim rather than just arguing a bunch of other
points, none of which I dispute but all of which I claim are irrelevant
to the question at hand.

> Checking the memory usage of Python before and after the creation of 1 
> million integer list, I get a /very/ consistant ~16 bytes per.  That 
> would be 12 bytes for the object, and 4 bytes for each pointer in the 
> list.  

Please post the expression you are using, for comparison.

>  I could go on as to why it doesn't matter in this case (considering the 
> large mallocs necessary for the creation of large lists), but I'll leave 
> that as an exercise to the reader.

Please go on about it.  I'd like to see where you discuss what happens
to the previously memory that was held in earlier lists, as it iterates
through the loop creating exponentially larger lists.

> Again, from the source, 12 bytes for the object, 4 bytes for the pointer 
> in the list, total of 16 bytes per intobject in a list.

Nice.  So each entry in the list is 4 bytes (as I indicated).  And if
they all point to a single instance of the integer 1, how many extra
bytes do you think that allocates?

-Peter


From peter at engcorp.com  Tue Apr 27 14:48:28 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2004 14:48:28 -0400
Subject: Is Perl *that* good?
In-Reply-To: <pan.2004.04.27.18.15.56.169064@hotmail.com>
References: <c6ich0$c5mee$1@ID-205437.news.uni-berlin.de>
	<iL3jc.232$Yc.2330@news4.e.nsc.no>
	<108q51j4dscn7dc@corp.supernews.com>
	<knbjc.267$id.3998@news2.e.nsc.no>
	<pan.2004.04.26.20.50.19.843510@hotmail.com>
	<87fzaqmm8t.fsf@strauser.com>
	<38ec68a6.0404262308.50029919@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.49.1083084698.25742.python-list@python.org>
	<pan.2004.04.27.18.15.56.169064@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <noydnQuaxutgNxPdRVn-hw@powergate.ca>

Paramjit Oberoi wrote:

>>    Asun> Regex is much more 'immediate' in Perl.  
>>
>>Sure, it's syntactically bound into the language.  There will always be an
>>extra constant overhead to enable regular expressions in Python.  That
> 
> 
> If only compiled regular expression objects allowed easy access to the
> last match object, python regxes would become significantly more
> convenient.  For example, today you have to write:
> 
> m = myregex.match(line)
> if (m):
>     xyz = m.group('xyz')
> 
> It would be much easier to do:
> 
> if myregex.match(line):
>     xyz = myregex.lastm.group('xyz')
> 
> Having to introduce a new variable name for a match object just
> muddles the code unnecessarily in common regex usage scenarios.

Wouldn't that be a fairly trivial class to write, and use
in your own code?  This is the kind of thing people tend
to whip up on the fly and add to their little bag of tools
if they really like it.

Something like (untested, not real code, just for the idea):

class myregex(re):
     def match(self, data):
         self.lastm = self.pattern.match(data)
         return self.lastm

-Peter


From tjreedy at udel.edu  Thu Apr 29 14:03:40 2004
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Thu, 29 Apr 2004 14:03:40 -0400
Subject: outline-style sorting algorithm
References: <mailman.102.1083199976.25742.python-list@python.org>
	<c2bdjg9l06p2.dlg@thorstenkampe.de>
Message-ID: <c6rg1j$vub$1@sea.gmane.org>


"Thorsten Kampe" <thorsten at thorstenkampe.de> wrote in message
news:c2bdjg9l06p2.dlg at thorstenkampe.de...
> If made some tests with lists of one million items:
>
> The first test was with a randomized sequence of numbers from 1 -
> 1000000. Duplicate numbers were allowed. The comparing function was
> the identity (lambda x: x).

I do not understand what you did, and therefore cannot judge results.  A
compare function takes two args (the objects to be compared) and
returns -1, 0, 1.  (I believe 0, 1 for <= or >t may be sufficient
currently).  How did you use the one-param identity?

Terry J. Reedy






From peter at engcorp.com  Thu Apr 15 06:12:59 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2004 06:12:59 -0400
Subject: Threading question
In-Reply-To: <c5ljtf$qlt$1@newsserv.zdv.uni-tuebingen.de>
References: <c5ljtf$qlt$1@newsserv.zdv.uni-tuebingen.de>
Message-ID: <xfydnUiny4W3_ePd4p2dnA@powergate.ca>

Torsten Marek wrote:

> I have a simple question about threads in Python. I am starting  a 
> number of threads in my program and I want print out the amount of time 
> needed after all threads stopped. Do I need to explictly join the 
> threads, set a condition or is it possible to somehow work with 
> try/finally like that:
> 
> try:
>     for i in range(0, num_threads):
>         s = MyThread()
>         s.start()
> finally:
>     print "all threads finished"

The other threads are running in, well, other threads, so you
won't see any effect on the above thread when they end.  Therefore
you can't get much mileage out of a finally clause.  A .join()
is definitely the way to go here.

-Peter


From jcarlson at uci.edu  Sun Apr  4 15:40:27 2004
From: jcarlson at uci.edu (Josiah Carlson)
Date: Sun, 04 Apr 2004 12:40:27 -0700
Subject: Siginificant figures calculating zprob
In-Reply-To: <9405c70f.0404031852.155d17d5@posting.google.com>
References: <9405c70f.0404031852.155d17d5@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <c4pohj$7nk$1@news.service.uci.edu>

> I want to calculate zprob(the area under the normal curve)
> with python and I managed to find a function from the
> internet.
> 
> But the problem is that the function calculates the result
> with only a few significant figures. If I want to get the 
> 20th number of the result(z-prob) what should I do? I want
> to get the confidence level of "6sigma" and all I get at the
> moment is "1".
> 
> I remember that Python's long type has unlimited number of
> significant figures as long as the memory allows. What about
> floating point numbers?

Python floats are normally IEEE 754 FP values, which generally have 53 
bits of precision.

It's been a while since I did this kind of stuff, but after doing a few 
tests, the summation using Simpson's rule for numerical integration 
converges fairly quickly for most znorm ranges.  I use 4096 divisions 
beacuse it seems to be fast and accurate to at least 10 decimal places 
for the ranges I've tested.

More divisions may or may not increase precision, but for most tasks, I 
would imagine the code given at the end would be sufficient.  There are 
various float casts, and floating point constants given in the code. 
With the tests that I did, it seems that some are necessary for higher 
precision.

Oh, I hope this is precise enough...
 >>> div = 1024
 >>> while div < 16*1024:
...     print div, repr(znorm_range(0, 1, div))
...     div *= 2
...
1024 0.3413447460685452
2048 0.3413447460685422
4096 0.34134474606854304
8192 0.34134474606854265
 >>>

  - Josiah



from math import sqrt, e, pi

def znorm_x(x,c=1.):
     return c/sqrt(2.*pi)*e**(-(x*x)/2.)

def znorm_range(low, high, divisions=4096):
     #divisions needs to be even, we'll increment it if necessary
     divisions += divisions%2
     #necessary if either low or high are integers
     low, high = float(low), float(high)
     inc = (high-low)/float(divisions)
     x = low+inc
     t = znorm_x(low) + znorm_x(high)
     c = 4.
     while x < high:
         t += znorm_x(x,c)
         x += inc
         c = 6.-c
     return (high-low)*t/3./divisions


From jonas at jonasgalvez.com  Wed Apr 21 14:43:49 2004
From: jonas at jonasgalvez.com (Jonas Galvez)
Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2004 15:43:49 -0300
Subject: Time
Message-ID: <c66fgl$sn4$1@sea.gmane.org>

If I have a tuple like this:

    (year, month, day, hour, minute)

Is there a way to automatically generate a string like this?

    "YYYY-MM-DDTHH:MM:00"

I remember seeing something about it somewhere... wanted to be sure.



Thanks in advance,



=-
Jonas Galvez
jonasgalvez.com/blog
macromedia.com/go/team







From erlendga at tva.ifi.uio.no  Thu Apr  1 13:53:09 2004
From: erlendga at tva.ifi.uio.no (Erlend Andreas Garberg)
Date: Thu, 1 Apr 2004 18:53:09 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Travelling salesman variation in python
References: <slrnc6on9h.spl.erlendga@tva.ifi.uio.no>
	<c4ho3l$4he$1@news.service.uci.edu>
Message-ID: <slrnc6op8l.spl.erlendga@tva.ifi.uio.no>

In article <c4ho3l$4he$1 at news.service.uci.edu>, Josiah Carlson wrote:
> Look at current TSP algorithms, and exchange their minimization rutines 
> for a maximization rutine.  TSP is an NP-hard problem, which means that 
> there is no currently known algorithm for solving it in polynomial time. 
>   You can approximate it or do a search on the solution space, but 
> solving it requires searching basically all of the solution space.
> 
>   - Josiah

An approximate solution would be good enough, do you have any 
suggestions about how do do that?


--
mvh
Erlend Garberg
erlendga at ifi.uio.no



From lubowiecka at go2.pl  Tue Apr 13 08:15:44 2004
From: lubowiecka at go2.pl (Sylwia)
Date: 13 Apr 2004 05:15:44 -0700
Subject: how to calculate correctly the cluster size
Message-ID: <f6554b84.0404130415.547f2a06@posting.google.com>

Hi!

I need Your help...

I am trying to find a way to calculate the cluster size for a drive. I
looked at the GetDiskFreeSpaceEx function in Win32 and it turned out
that it didn't provide the information I was looking for.
Using the old GetDiskFreeSpace function I could just multiply the
Bytes per
Sector by the Sector per Cluster and get the cluster size.  I heard
that the old GetDiskFreeSpace function may report not proper values
for volume sizes that are greater than 2 gigabytes. The new version of
that function (GetDiskFreeSpaceEx) returns the final disk free size
without the ability to calculate the cluster size - and the old
version does not work correctly with FAT 32... what can I do? Is there
another function I can use?

Thank You in advance,

Farraige


From missive at frontiernet.net  Thu Apr 15 11:04:19 2004
From: missive at frontiernet.net (Lee Harr)
Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2004 15:04:19 GMT
Subject: Pygame
References: <c5jdv2$s4$1@orkan.itea.ntnu.no>
	<107qkrbhnjpmh9b@news.supernews.com>
	<c5jpkb$6th$1@orkan.itea.ntnu.no>
	<107rksn9nosm78a@news.supernews.com>
	<4de76ee2.0404150304.3048ee44@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <Tvxfc.1764$sf3.756@news01.roc.ny>

> Personally, I'm not in favour of sweeping all the most popular third
> party libraries into the standard library, although I can understand the
> motivation of the original poster for wanting to include Pygame.
>


It might be interesting to see some kind of "stub" installer which
was quite small, but you could check different pieces you wanted
to use (Tkinter, Pygame, wxPython, etc) and have it download and
install only what you really want.

Implementation is left for someone who uses windows  ;o)



From shmolduk at free.fr  Tue Apr 27 06:42:49 2004
From: shmolduk at free.fr (pepericou)
Date: 27 Apr 2004 03:42:49 -0700
Subject: creating an python function with DCoracle2 module
Message-ID: <46a86393.0404270242.60fe9b35@posting.google.com>

I'm trying to developp an application which use Zope and DCOracle2
module to access Oracle database. I've install the DCOracle2 product
on Windows XP, but when I create a python function to access my
database, I' have the following error when I test it :
 import DCOracle2 is unauthorized
Can You help me ?
Thank you


From paddy3118 at netscape.net  Mon Apr 26 16:42:00 2004
From: paddy3118 at netscape.net (Paddy McCarthy)
Date: 26 Apr 2004 13:42:00 -0700
Subject: On: 'The Python CSV Module and Legacy Data'
Message-ID: <2ae25c6b.0404261242.c2a3358@posting.google.com>

Hi,
I read http://radio.weblogs.com/0124960/ which has a quoted number in
a csv file being interpreted as a string.
I checked it out with my csv2txt utility
(http://www.paddyx.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/)
And that does seem to be the case.

Should this action not be thought of as an error?
If the csv module reads a quoted string shouldn't it present it
internally as a string?

Since the csv reader is intelligent, maybe the correct proceedure
would be for it to:
 * If it only sniffs out numbers held in strings then change all
strings containing valid numbers to numbers.
 * If it initially sniffs out unquoted numbers, or no numbers at all,
or a mixture of quoted and unquoted numbers, then return un-quoted
numbers as numbers and quoted numbers as strings.

Or we could explicitely tell the CSV module what to do with quoted
number strings!

I haven't checked what the csv writer does with a string that could
also represent a number. Will it quote that on output? hmmm...

Cheers, Paddy.


From cygnus at cprogrammer.org  Thu Apr 15 09:23:24 2004
From: cygnus at cprogrammer.org (Jonathan Daugherty)
Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2004 09:23:24 -0400
Subject: Difficulty Finding Python Developers
In-Reply-To: <kKSdnSaWjO_rF-PdRVn-jg@powergate.ca>
References: <65cbc3dd.0404140641.3501fde8@posting.google.com>
	<65cbc3dd.0404141018.36d9d4ce@posting.google.com>
	<ca6d23f8.0404150426.5daf0b7d@posting.google.com>
	<kKSdnSaWjO_rF-PdRVn-jg@powergate.ca>
Message-ID: <20040415132324.GA28100@vulcan.cprogrammer.org>

# If I were his management, here I might say, "But I thought you
# said Python was older than Java!  If it's so good, why hasn't it
# caught on more than Java?" or "How can it build on the strengths
# of Java when it's older?"

The supposition that something is inherently good or better does not
imply that it will become popular.  Managerial mandate and hype
usually determine "popularity." :)

# or worse?  And wouldn't the best programmers be using the most
# popular languages, because they would make more money that way?"

Whether one is a good programmer and whether one is out to let
one's salary determine one's skill set are two totally different
qualities.  People who use 'popular' languages are rarely the best
programmers *because* they use popular languages; it's not that
deterministic.

-- 
    _  ,^.  _    
  ,'/ -' '- \`.  
 / |   \ /   | \   Jonathan Daugherty
|  |   | |   |  |
|   \_,' `._/   |  http://www.cprogrammer.org
|               |
 \             / 
  `.         .'  
    `--._.--'



From fumanchu at amor.org  Tue Apr 13 22:41:29 2004
From: fumanchu at amor.org (Robert Brewer)
Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2004 19:41:29 -0700
Subject: Does Python compete with Java?
Message-ID: <DE1CF2B4FEC4A342BF62B6B2B334601E561FF4@opus.amorhq.net>

Jakub Fast wrote:
> ...isn't the zen of python more along the way of:
> "the master hits the student repeatedly with a stick
> and the student experiences enlightenment" rather
> than "the master takes the toys away from the student".

Neither is even remotely true in my experience with Python. Perl and
Java (respectively) are over there ==> ;)

If the master has to hit the student at all, he's chosen the wrong way
to teach. If he has to do it repeatedly, he's a pretty poor judge of
sticks and students.

For the toy analogy, the master keeps the guns, tear gas, and nuclear
bombs locked up, not the toys.


FuManChu



From noemail at noemail4u.com  Thu Apr 29 07:59:45 2004
From: noemail at noemail4u.com (Daniel 'Dang' Griffith)
Date: Thu, 29 Apr 2004 11:59:45 GMT
Subject: String formatting (%)
References: <e567c03a.0404280035.79d0d973@posting.google.com>
	<gcGdnd7hn7_LMxLd4p2dnA@powergate.ca>
Message-ID: <0fc7c423f6c71f60bc863e72b0765f6c@news.teranews.com>

On Wed, 28 Apr 2004 09:15:02 -0400, Peter Hansen <peter at engcorp.com>
wrote:

>Pascal wrote:
>
>> Hello,
>> I've a float number 123456789.01 and, I'de like to format it like this
>> "123 456 789.01".
>> Is this possible with % character?
>
>No, as shown by http://docs.python.org/lib/typesseq-strings.html
>but you could probably use the 'locale' module instead.
>
>I suspect there's also a regular expression that could deal with
>that, but I don't want to know what it is. ;-)
>
>-Peter
    Since you don't want to know what it is, I'll at least tell you
where it is: In Mastering Regular Expressions by Jeffrey E. F. Friedl.
I don't have it front of me, but it's the "commafying" example.  A
quick search of the author's site looks like it's on pgs 64-65.  
    Of course, the OP would substitute spaces for the commas.
        --dang


From NAIGIMSESRIMAIL at gims.com  Thu Apr  1 03:54:37 2004
From: NAIGIMSESRIMAIL at gims.com (GroupShield for Exchange (ESRIMAIL))
Date: Thu, 1 Apr 2004 10:54:37 +0200 
Subject: ALERT -  GroupShield ticket number OB66_1080809672_ESRIMAIL_3 was
	generated
Message-ID: <B06B8FEF47ACD7119E720040F428459102124CFF@ESRIMAIL>

Action Taken:
The message was blocked because of its subject.

To:
python-list at python.org <python-list at python.org>

From:
Peter Maas <fpetermaas at netscape.net>

Sent:
-219147264,29628358

Subject:
Re: test for nan

Attachment Details:-

Attachment Name: N/A
File: Infected.msg
Infected? No
Repaired? No
Blocked? Yes
Deleted? No
Virus Name: 



	
-------------- next part --------------
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From Scott.Daniels at Acm.Org  Sat Apr  3 16:13:02 2004
From: Scott.Daniels at Acm.Org (Scott David Daniels)
Date: Sat, 03 Apr 2004 13:13:02 -0800
Subject: beginner import confusion
In-Reply-To: <SXEbc.45642$i63.42730@newssvr25.news.prodigy.com>
References: <SXEbc.45642$i63.42730@newssvr25.news.prodigy.com>
Message-ID: <406f2fe7$1@nntp0.pdx.net>

DilbertFan wrote:

> Hi,
>  I really thought that I had this importing business down.
> I recently downloaded and installed mx module for the DateTime class.
> 
> In IDLE, I go:
>    import mx
>    mx.DateTime.DateTime(2004)
 >    I get AttributeError: 'module' object has no attribute 'DateTime'

mx is a package, mx.DateTime is a module; you need to import a module
to get to its contents.

>  but if you type:
>     import mx.DateTime
>     mx.DateTime.DateTime(2004)
>    <DateTime object for '2004-01-01 00:00:00.00' at a979e0>
 > If you "import mx", ... doesn't that get everything?
If mx were a module, you would be right.  However, it is a "package,"
a collection of modules and packages.  Packages are a way of keeping
the names one provider of many python modules from conflicting with
the module names of both you and python itself.

> If you know, from the docs, that it contains a DateTime class
> and then a DateTime object, 
mx.DateTime.DateTime is a class, not an object.
You could do:
     from mx.DateTime import DateTime
to simply get the DateTime class and then use DateTime(2004).

-- 
-Scott David Daniels
Scott.Daniels at Acm.Org


From No.Spam.mc at No.Spam.mclaveau.No.Spam.com  Sun Apr  4 08:33:40 2004
From: No.Spam.mc at No.Spam.mclaveau.No.Spam.com (Michel Claveau/Hamster)
Date: Sun, 4 Apr 2004 14:33:40 +0200
Subject: Python is faster than C
References: <406F0907.96F37EA1@tunes.org>
	<c4n9qf$jgq$1@news-reader4.wanadoo.fr>
	<406F3A33.70FB70CC@tunes.org>
Message-ID: <c4p1n7$8r8$1@news-reader5.wanadoo.fr>

Hi !

Sorry, but i had let down C language. I can't compare.
See also my answer to Josiah Carlson.

And Psyco is sufficiently good not to need ambiguous arguments.

@-salutations
--
Michel Claveau






From davidf at sjsoft.com  Thu Apr 22 01:42:28 2004
From: davidf at sjsoft.com (David Fraser)
Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2004 07:42:28 +0200
Subject: Python 2.3.3 super() behaviour
In-Reply-To: <4086539d$0$24773$afc38c87@news.easynet.fr>
References: <40863bd7$0$25528$afc38c87@news.easynet.fr>
	<c65fbo$1q4$05$1@news.t-online.com>
	<40864674$0$24834$afc38c87@news.easynet.fr>
	<40864ea6$0$25528$afc38c87@news.easynet.fr>
	<c65j4o$3me$1@ctb-nnrp2.saix.net>
	<4086539d$0$24773$afc38c87@news.easynet.fr>
Message-ID: <c67ll4$f1o$1@ctb-nnrp2.saix.net>

Hi Nicolas

Another related idea:
Use template functions when you have enough control over the objects:

def A(base=object):
   class A(base):
     def __init__(self):
        print "A"
        super(A, self).__init__()
   return A

def B(base=object):
   class B(base):
     def __init__(self):
        print "B"
        super(B, self).__init__()
   return B

class C(B(A())):
   def __init__(self):
      print "C"
      super(C, self).__init__()

C()

This is a bit different to multiple inheritance, but can have nice 
effects...

David

Nicolas Lehuen wrote:
> Ah, so there *is* more than one way to do it, then ? ;)
> 
> What the example shows is that super(...).__init__ does make one call to
> each superclass' __init__, provided that those superclasses play nicely and
> use super() themselves (as Peter wrote). If one of the superclasses does not
> use super(), the 'magical' iteration over parent methods is interrupted,
> hence the need to put those bad guys at the end of the superclasses list in
> the class declaration.
> 
> But you're right, David, the simplest way to get what I want is to
> explicitely call the superclasses' __init__. However, this would mean that
> super() is not as useful as it seems. I'd rather find a way to *always* use
> super() than have special cases for certain inheritance trees. In other
> words, I'd rather have only one way to do it :).
> 
> Regards,
> Nicolas
> 
> "David Fraser" <davidf at sjsoft.com> a ?crit dans le message de
> news:c65j4o$3me$1 at ctb-nnrp2.saix.net...
> 
>>super is not going to be helpful here, so why not call the X.__init__
>>functions explicitly?
>>Since you *need* multiple __init__ calls from the multiply-inherited
>>class, super isn't going to work...
>>
>>Nicolas Lehuen wrote:
>>
>>>The only problem I have is that I want to build a multiple inheritance
>>>involving an object which does not cooperate, namely :
>>>
>>>class T(object):
>>>    def __init__(self):
>>>        super(T,self).__init__()
>>>
>>>class  TL(list,object):
>>>    def __init__(self)
>>>        super(TL,self).__init__()
>>>
>>>In this case, T.__init__ is not called, because list.__init__ does not
> 
> use
> 
>>>super(). The only clean way to proceed is to change the inheritance
> 
> order :
> 
>>>TL(T,list). This way, both constructors are called.
>>>
>>>Here is another example which exhibits the behaviour :
>>>
>>>class A(object):
>>>    def __init__(self):
>>>        super(A,self).__init__()
>>>        print 'A'
>>>
>>>class B(object):
>>>    def __init__(self):
>>>        print 'B'
>>>
>>>class C(B,A):
>>>    def __init__(self):
>>>        super(C,self).__init__()
>>>        print 'C'
>>>
>>>class D(A,B):
>>>    def __init__(self):
>>>        super(D,self).__init__()
>>>        print 'D'
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>>>C()
>>>
>>>B
>>>C
>>><__main__.C object at 0x008F3D70>
>>>
>>>>>>D()
>>>
>>>B
>>>A
>>>D
>>><__main__.D object at 0x008F39F0>
>>>
>>>The problem is that if you go further down the inheritance, the
> 
> behaviour is
> 
>>>even more complicated :
>>>
>>>class E(object):
>>>    def __init__(self):
>>>        super(E,self).__init__()
>>>        print 'E'
>>>
>>>class F(C,E):
>>>    def __init__(self):
>>>        super(F,self).__init__()
>>>        print 'F'
>>>
>>>class G(D,E):
>>>    def __init__(self):
>>>        super(G,self).__init__()
>>>        print 'G'
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>>>F()
>>>
>>>B
>>>C
>>>F
>>><__main__.F object at 0x008F3D70>
>>>
>>>>>>G()
>>>
>>>B
>>>A
>>>D
>>>G
>>><__main__.G object at 0x008F3EF0>
>>>
>>>class H(E,C):
>>>    def __init__(self):
>>>        super(H,self).__init__()
>>>        print 'H'
>>>
>>>class I(E,D):
>>>    def __init__(self):
>>>        super(I,self).__init__()
>>>        print 'I'
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>>>H()
>>>
>>>B
>>>C
>>>E
>>>H
>>><__main__.H object at 0x008F3E30>
>>>
>>>>>>I()
>>>
>>>B
>>>A
>>>D
>>>E
>>>I
>>><__main__.I object at 0x008F3FD0>
>>>
>>>So the conclusion is : never do that :). Another more constructive
>>>conclusion would be : always put the most cooperative classes first in
> 
> the
> 
>>>inheritance declaration, provided that it doesn't interfere with your
> 
> needs.
> 
>>>A class which has an uncooperative ancestor is less cooperative than a
> 
> class
> 
>>>which has only cooperative ancestors.
>>>
>>>Regards,
>>>Nicolas
>>>
>>>"Nicolas Lehuen" <nicolas.lehuen at thecrmcompany.com> a ?crit dans le
> 
> message
> 
>>>de news:40864674$0$24834$afc38c87 at news.easynet.fr...
>>>
>>>
>>>>OK, I get it now, thanks.
>>>>
>>>>super() method calls should only be used for method involved in
>>>>diamond-shaped inheritance. This is logical since in this case the base
>>>>classe (from which the diamond-shaped inheritance starts) defines the
>>>>interface of the method.
>>>>
>>>>This solves another question I was asking myself about super() : "how
> 
> can
> 
>>>it
>>>
>>>
>>>>work when the method signature differ between B and C ?". Answer : the
>>>>method signature should not change because polymorphic calls would be
>>>>greatly endangered. The base class defines the signature of the method
>>>
>>>which
>>>
>>>
>>>>must be followed by all its children, this way super() can work
> 
> properly.
> 
>>>>The base method signature is not enforced by Python, of course, but
> 
> you'd
> 
>>>>better respect it unless you get weird result in polymorphic calls.
>>>>
>>>>Regards,
>>>>Nicolas
>>>>
>>>>"Peter Otten" <__peter__ at web.de> a ?crit dans le message de
>>>>news:c65fbo$1q4$05$1 at news.t-online.com...
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>Nicolas Lehuen wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>Hi,
>>>>>>
>>>>>>I hope this is not a FAQ, but I have trouble understanding the
>>>
>>>behaviour
>>>
>>>
>>>>>>of the super() built-in function. I've read the excellent book 'Python
>>>>
>>>>in
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>a Nutshell' which explains this built-in function on pages 89-90.
>>>
>>>Based
>>>
>>>
>>>>on
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>the example on page 90, I wrote this test code :
>>>>>>
>>>>>>class A(object):
>>>>>>   def test(self):
>>>>>>       print 'A'
>>>>>>
>>>>>>class B(object):
>>>>>>   def test(self):
>>>>>>       print 'B'
>>>>>>
>>>>>>class C(A,B):
>>>>>>   def test(self):
>>>>>>       super(C,self).test()
>>>>>>       print 'C'
>>>>>>
>>>>>>print C.__mro__
>>>>>>c=C()
>>>>>>c.test()
>>>>>>
>>>>>>The output is :
>>>>>>(<class '__main__.C'>, <class '__main__.A'>, <class '__main__.B'>,
>>>
>>><type
>>>
>>>
>>>>>>'object'>)
>>>>>>A
>>>>>>C
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Whereas I was expecting :
>>>>>>(<class '__main__.C'>, <class '__main__.A'>, <class '__main__.B'>,
>>>
>>><type
>>>
>>>
>>>>>>'object'>)
>>>>>>A
>>>>>>B
>>>>>>C
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Was I wrong to expect this (based on what I've read ?)
>>>>>
>>>>>As soon as a test() method without the super(...).test() is reached, no
>>>>>further test methods will be invoked. Only the first in the list of
> 
> base
> 
>>>>>classes will be invoked. If I'm getting it right you have to do
>>>
>>>something
>>>
>>>
>>>>>like:
>>>>>
>>>>>class Base(object):
>>>>>   def test(self):
>>>>>       print "base"
>>>>>
>>>>>class D1(Base):
>>>>>   def test(self):
>>>>>       super(D1, self).test()
>>>>>       print "derived 1"
>>>>>
>>>>>class D2(Base):
>>>>>   def test(self):
>>>>>       super(D2, self).test()
>>>>>       print "derived 2"
>>>>>
>>>>>class All(D1, D2):
>>>>>   pass
>>>>>
>>>>>All().test()
>>>>>
>>>>>Here all cooperating methods have a super() call, and the base class
>>>
>>>acts
>>>
>>>
>>>>as
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>a showstopper to prevent that Python tries to invoke the non-existent
>>>>>object.test().
>>>>>
>>>>>Peter
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
> 
> 


From tony at deletethis.thoward.plus.net  Tue Apr 20 12:47:04 2004
From: tony at deletethis.thoward.plus.net (Tony of Judicious)
Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 17:47:04 +0100
Subject: Rekall configure probs
References: <kobhc.34911$Y%6.4526040@wards.force9.net>
	<c63gvt$7n4v4$1@ID-111250.news.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <huchc.34926$Y%6.4530305@wards.force9.net>

Diez B. Roggisch wrote:

> Tony of Judicious wrote:
> 
>> Not sure if this is right ng but i'm trying to install Rekall on Suse 9
>> prof
>> 
>> During ./configure i get the msg:
>> 
>> checking for X... configure: error: Can't find X includes. Please check
>> your installation and add the correct paths!
>> 
>> Any idea what it is looking for?
> 
> the x window include files? Whatever it needs them for - nstall the X
> devel packages.
> 

Ta, that did it
BUT has now come up with LOTS of other dependencies.........


From peter at engcorp.com  Mon Apr 26 11:54:47 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2004 11:54:47 -0400
Subject: Is Perl *that* good? (was: How's ruby compare to it older bro
In-Reply-To: <mailman.18.1082989111.25742.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.18.1082989111.25742.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <lNadndrvs_FarRDdRVn-vA@powergate.ca>

jwsacksteder at ramprecision.com wrote:

> I suspect the perl is the first place many people get exposed
> to regexes and when they understand the utility of that, some 
> of the glow rubs off on perl. Someone actually said to me 
> once "I program in perl because I can't live without regex."
> Now when someone says "perl text-processing", I hear "regex".
> (If I was motivated, I would include the above substitution in
>  regex notation here...)
> 
> The php/mysql crowd gives me this feeling as well, but that's
> a discussion for another day and another list.

I guess it would be interesting to pose the question back to
them "If you could not use regexes in Perl, would you still
like to program in it?" or "If you couldn't use mysql in PHP
would you still use it?"

What similar question, if any, would be a difficult one for
us Python types?

-Peter


From greg at cosc.canterbury.ac.nz  Thu Apr 29 22:52:55 2004
From: greg at cosc.canterbury.ac.nz (Greg Ewing)
Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2004 14:52:55 +1200
Subject: What is good about Prothon?
In-Reply-To: <69cbbef2.0404291609.72d391db@posting.google.com>
References: <bniq80hiib0gauiltuntk9jvia2getbnj4@4ax.com>
	<nxdjc.400$Qy.363@fed1read04>
	<m0ps8092jss5mhpopkbj0a4hg0m0rlppqh@4ax.com>
	<vDvjc.5555$Qy.2995@fed1read04>
	<108t2tlo06j8vb9@corp.supernews.com>
	<hzwjc.6087$Qy.2366@fed1read04>
	<69cbbef2.0404281446.4e0ab52e@posting.google.com>
	<ZHXjc.17225$Qy.13377@fed1read04>
	<69cbbef2.0404291609.72d391db@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <c6sf29$fvhns$1@ID-169208.news.uni-berlin.de>

has wrote:
> # Create object 'a'
> a = Object()
> a.x = 1
> 
> # Create objects 'b' and 'c'
> b = a()
> c = a()

You've mistranslated your example. The Prothon equivalent
would be more like

   b = a.copy()
   c = a.copy()

and then you have three independent objects, just as you
want.

The exactly equivalent thing can also be done in Python,
for what its' worth.

-- 
Greg Ewing, Computer Science Dept,
University of Canterbury,	
Christchurch, New Zealand
http://www.cosc.canterbury.ac.nz/~greg



From llothar at web.de  Thu Apr 22 12:03:34 2004
From: llothar at web.de (Lothar Scholz)
Date: 22 Apr 2004 09:03:34 -0700
Subject: Python editors for Windows question
References: <D6Ahc.2737911$iA2.315963@news.easynews.com>
	<mailman.902.1082618931.20120.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <6ee58e07.0404220803.24aeefe1@posting.google.com>

Marco Aschwanden <PPNTWIMBXFFC at spammotel.com> wrote in message news:<mailman.902.1082618931.20120.python-list at python.org>...
> The best auto-completion you can get for Python is: WingIde  
> http://wingide.com/
> 
> Normally WingIDE is quite good at auto-completion but sometimes it needs 
> some help:
> 
> if wingIde does not "recognize" a class you may add:
> 
> assert isinstance(btnHello, wxButton)
> 
> and after that point it will handle this for you too...

But keep in mind that auto-completion is by concepts miles away from
what you see in Java. The problem for us who try to implement this
feature is always that most people don't understand why this is
impossible in a dynamically typed language.


From hungjunglu at yahoo.com  Sun Apr  4 14:09:05 2004
From: hungjunglu at yahoo.com (Hung Jung Lu)
Date: 4 Apr 2004 11:09:05 -0700
Subject: GUI Frameworks in Python?
References: <mailman.102.1080629227.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<930ba99a.0404030246.786455f5@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <8ef9bea6.0404041009.26ae2683@posting.google.com>

sridharinfinity at yahoo.com (Sridhar R) wrote in message news:<930ba99a.0404030246.786455f5 at posting.google.com>...
> 
> Man, you better use PyGTK (http://pygtk.org). It's portable (See pygtk
> faq for windows port). It's neet (API).
> Try also `glade`, `libglade`.
> http://glade.gnome.org , I think?

Can someone outline some differences/advantages of PyGTK vs. wxPython?

A first look at PyGTK shows me a more Unix-like look-and-feel. On the
other hand, wxPython on Windows does look very much like any other
Windows applications.

Is the event handling in PyGTK cleaner/better than wxPython? Does
PyGTK have more widgets? The FAQ of PyGTK does not have a comparison
section regarding other GUI toolkits, I think it would be useful if
one were included. (If you go to wxPython's mainpage, you read "Why
the hell hasn't wxPython become the standard GUI for Python yet?", and
also "BTW, great work! I've definitively switched from Tk. I work on
Win32, anybody who works on Win32 should switch!". Comments like that.
Readers can immediately know the relationship to Tk, and wxPython's
platform friendliness for Win32.) Given the lack of comparison, I
would guess that GTK is unix-friendly, since Unix people usually would
mention little or nothing about Windows. :) Continuing with my guess:
are there any caveats for using PyGTK for Windows programmers?

---------------------------

Given my observations, is it fair to say:

(a) wxPython is widely used for Windows Python programmers, and
(b) PyGTK is widely used for Unix Python programmers?

regards,

Hung Jung


From python at holdenweb.com  Fri Apr  9 17:08:07 2004
From: python at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Fri, 09 Apr 2004 17:08:07 -0400
Subject: Python-2.3.3 install -> no "make"
In-Reply-To: <2278156.F9pO2Pa3OA@Lumina-verte.org>
References: <2278156.F9pO2Pa3OA@Lumina-verte.org>
Message-ID: <3kEdc.3041$VE5.900@lakeread01>

Frank Dieckmann wrote:
> Hi!
> 
> I 've tryed to install Python-2.3.3 under SuSE 8.0:
> Unpacking was fine,
> ../configure seems to be too,
> but there was no make-file (only "Makefile" but that seems to be something 
> else).
> What have I forgotten or which fault did I made?
> How can I handle this problem, what do I have to do to install Python?
> 
> Kind regards!
> 
> Frank

If you don't have "make" then you need to install some development 
packages. "make" is the utility that uses the Makefile to build the 
software.

regards
  Steve



From ramen at lackingtalent.com  Mon Apr  5 22:01:20 2004
From: ramen at lackingtalent.com (Dave Benjamin)
Date: Tue, 06 Apr 2004 02:01:20 -0000
Subject: Fake post alert(was: Stackless Website down, Project gone,
	I'm dead.)
References: <20040402195104.186481807.eric@zomething.com>
	<mailman.345.1081134064.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<slrnc721em.sf.ramen@lackingtalent.com>
	<mailman.372.1081201455.20120.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <slrnc744fn.e97.ramen@lackingtalent.com>

In article <mailman.372.1081201455.20120.python-list at python.org>, Christian Tismer wrote:
> Dave Benjamin wrote:
>> 
>> Christian Tismer doesn't lock his workstation! I'm telling!! =)
> 
> No, he didn't evict certain accounts, well, still not going
> into details.

If you ask me, it looks like you just did. But at least you lock your
workstation; I'd hate to think you're one of those people that doesn't lock
their workstation... <g>

> Btw, incidentially, the Stackless site really went down over
> the weeken, and I'm more than happy to announce that it is
> up and running, again, nothing lost at all.

An odd coincidence. Well, I'm glad to hear the site's back up.
Last year, I had a site get hacked and rooted, and I was up until 3am
installing Apache, mod_python, and a large handful of Python libraries.
It definitely enlightened me about the benefits of writing deployment
scripts... (since I did not write any)

Happy goto-ing,
Dave

-- 
.:[ dave benjamin: ramen/[sp00] -:- spoomusic.com -:- ramenfest.com ]:.
:  please talk to your son or daughter about parametric polymorphism. :


From admin at na.org  Wed Apr 28 03:20:17 2004
From: admin at na.org (admin at na.org)
Date: Wed, 28 Apr 2004 00:20:17 -0700
Subject: Symantec Mail Security detected a virus based on a message you sent
	(SYM:10517043161659824748)
Message-ID: <0aee01c42cf1$42048730$b0a8a8c0@na.org>

Subject of the message: something for you
Recipient of the message: Roberta Tolkan




From alban at magproductions.nl  Wed Apr 28 06:28:54 2004
From: alban at magproductions.nl (Alban Hertroys)
Date: Wed, 28 Apr 2004 12:28:54 +0200
Subject: Problem importing packages
In-Reply-To: <c6o0s0$4je$1@netlx020.civ.utwente.nl>
References: <c6o0s0$4je$1@netlx020.civ.utwente.nl>
Message-ID: <c6o117$4je$2@netlx020.civ.utwente.nl>

Alban Hertroys wrote:
> I'm trying to create a package containing a number of classes I made, 
> but I can't get it to work...
> 
> My package is structured like this:
> 
>     X/
>         __init__.py

Doh! I named it __init.py__ instead...
It DOES work using __init__.py.


From peter at engcorp.com  Thu Apr 29 22:14:50 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Thu, 29 Apr 2004 22:14:50 -0400
Subject: static keyword
In-Reply-To: <f8097096.0404291403.400304ee@posting.google.com>
References: <mailman.113.1083254129.25742.python-list@python.org>
	<f8097096.0404291403.400304ee@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <WeKdnUQ3hq4BKwzdRVn-hg@powergate.ca>

Nick Jacobson wrote:

> Yes, that is excellent.  Thank you very much. :)
> 
> The good news: you can reset all your "static" data whenever you want,
> by calling foo().  Can't do that in C.
> 
> The bad news: I just hope I don't forget and call foo() instead of
> g.next().
> I would rather the command foo() by default call the next iteration,
> and, say, foo().reset() would recall the function from scratch.  But
> that's neither here nor there..

Do this then (and this is, if not a hack, at least unusual style):

>>>def foo_reset():
      # same as previous foo was, just renamed

>>>foo = foo_reset().next
>>>foo()
First pass
11
>>>foo()
12

Happy now?  ;-)

-Peter


From tzot at sil-tec.gr  Mon Apr  5 05:55:25 2004
From: tzot at sil-tec.gr (Christos TZOTZIOY Georgiou)
Date: Mon, 05 Apr 2004 12:55:25 +0300
Subject: An attempt at guessing the encoding of a (non-unicode) string
References: <c1sq60t7af0lgs1ovilg6ds220dkc0inpd@4ax.com>
	<eppstein-8C467F.14490702042004@news.service.uci.edu>
Message-ID: <6pa270h031thgleo4a31itktb95n9e4rvm@4ax.com>

On Fri, 02 Apr 2004 14:49:07 -0800, rumours say that David Eppstein
<eppstein at ics.uci.edu> might have written:

>I've been getting decent results by a much simpler approach:
>count the number of characters for which the encoding produces a symbol 
>c for which c.isalpha() or c.isspace(), subtract a large penalty if 
>using the encoding leads to UnicodeDecodeError, and take the encoding 
>with the largest count.

Somebody (by email only so far) has suggested that spambayes could be
used to the task... perhaps they're right, however this is not as simple
and independent a solution I would like to deliver.

I would believe that your idea of a score is a good one; I feel that the
key should be two-char combinations, but I'll have to compare the
success rate of both one-char and two-char keys.

I'll try to search for "representative" texts on the web for as many
encodings as I can; any pointers, links from non-english speakers would
be welcome in the thread.
-- 
TZOTZIOY, I speak England very best,
Ils sont fous ces Redmontains! --Harddix


From llothar at web.de  Tue Apr 20 17:55:18 2004
From: llothar at web.de (Lothar Scholz)
Date: 20 Apr 2004 14:55:18 -0700
Subject: Difficulty Finding Python Developers
References: <65cbc3dd.0404140641.3501fde8@posting.google.com>	<roy-A69D29.18562119042004@reader2.panix.com>	<c63blu$96i$1@sea.gmane.org>
	<mailman.808.1082478057.20120.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <6ee58e07.0404201355.7465406@posting.google.com>

> *I* didn't realise that, I assumed $45,000/year to $55,000/year annual 
> rate, which would be a reasonable rate in Canada (in Canadian dollars 
> even) for a programmer with 1 or 2 years of experience.  I'd forgotten 
> just how well Americans get paid for having fun... 

You mean the lucky persons working at Wal-Mart ?


From paddy3118 at netscape.net  Sat Apr  3 06:08:36 2004
From: paddy3118 at netscape.net (Paddy McCarthy)
Date: 3 Apr 2004 03:08:36 -0800
Subject: [ANN] csv2txt.py csv file convertion script
Message-ID: <mailman.1081012683.16468.clpa-moderators@python.org>

csv2text is a program I wrote to illustrate a point I made on comp.lang.python
about not just creating great Python modules, or Python programs, but of doing 
both at the same time.
This program makes the CSV module of Python more accessible by creating a 
program 'filter' that guesses and parses a csv file type on standard input 
and generates different formats on standard output.

At the moment, output types are CSV, HTML (as an HTML table), and a text 
format that is written to be easily parsed by tools such as TCL or AWK 
that may not have such a powerful CSV reader module handy. The text format
has conversions to allow AWK to handle CSV files with fields that contain 
embedded newlines (XL can generate that type of CSV file).

Homepage: http://www.paddyx.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/csv2txt/README.html

Cheers, Paddy.



From claird at lairds.com  Mon Apr 26 12:04:27 2004
From: claird at lairds.com (Cameron Laird)
Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2004 16:04:27 -0000
Subject: Is Perl *that* good? (was: How's ruby compare to it older bro
References: <mailman.18.1082989111.25742.python-list@python.org>
	<lNadndrvs_FarRDdRVn-vA@powergate.ca>
Message-ID: <108qcobc4m8g972@corp.supernews.com>

In article <lNadndrvs_FarRDdRVn-vA at powergate.ca>,
Peter Hansen  <peter at engcorp.com> wrote:
			.
			.
			.
>I guess it would be interesting to pose the question back to
>them "If you could not use regexes in Perl, would you still
>like to program in it?" or "If you couldn't use mysql in PHP
>would you still use it?"
>
>What similar question, if any, would be a difficult one for
>us Python types?
>
>-Peter

Over in Perlmark, Randal "often" (his adverb) claims
no one'd use Tcl now if Expect and Tk hadn't kept it
alive.

I don't get it, though.  The questions just don't work
for me; I don't find them as illuminating as more pre-
cise and less inflammatory alternatives.  Moreover, 
I'm sure I could find abundant Perlites who'd still 
use it without its built-in REs.

If Python lacked the interactive shell ... well, 
someone would build it, immediately.
-- 

Cameron Laird <claird at phaseit.net>
Business:  http://www.Phaseit.net


From ykingma at accessforall.nl  Fri Apr 30 04:53:43 2004
From: ykingma at accessforall.nl (Ype Kingma)
Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2004 10:53:43 +0200
Subject: Cross-Language Encryption: Python/Java
References: <mailman.116.1083258236.25742.python-list@python.org>
	<87y8oe4g9l.fsf@pobox.com>
Message-ID: <40921418$0$61616$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>

John J. Lee wrote:

> Daniel Orner <cs993442 at cs.yorku.ca> writes:
> 
>>      I'm working on a project that consists of a Java application
>> on the desktop, and a server with Python CGI code. I'm trying to find
>> an encryption algorithm, which would let me send encrypted information
>> to the server, to work identically in both Python and
>> Java. (I.e. which would let me encrypt data in Java, send it to the
>> Python server, and decrypt it there.) For various reasons, I don't
>> want to use the built-in Java encryption suite.
> [...]
> 
> Use Jython.  Whether it makes sense to put Jython on server or client
> probably depends on details that only you know.

Another option is a ssh tunnel from each client to your server. If this
is feasible in your environment, it has the big advantage that your code
won't even now that the communication is encrypted, only the client
would have to connect to the tunnel.

Perhaps someone else can comment on secure sockets. Java has them,
and I'd expect your server to know how to deal with them, too.

I'd also ask on a Zope list.

Good luck,
Ype



From scott.b.drummonds.nospam at intel.com  Wed Apr 14 17:01:44 2004
From: scott.b.drummonds.nospam at intel.com (Scott Brady Drummonds)
Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2004 14:01:44 -0700
Subject: Fast Data Comparison (dict v. list. v string)
Message-ID: <c5k8rp$ql6$1@news01.intel.com>

Hi, everyone,

I'm a relative novice at Python and am working on some optimizations in my
first Python project.  At its core, this tool I'm writing needs to perform
many comparisons to fixed-size lists of fixed-length strings.

Currently, my implementation uses dictionaries to store each string.  I
maintain a separate "key-mapping" dictionary that maps keys from one
dictionary to the other.  Then, all I have to do to compare the two
dictionaries is as follows:
  for metaKey in keyMap.keys():
    if dict1[metaKey] != dict2[keyMap[metaKey]]:
      #  Do some processing

Since the sizes of the dictionaries never change, I tried implementing this
using lists.  The solution looks something like this (and assumes that a
pre-processing phase has sorted the contents of each list so their indexes
are the same):
  for i in len(list1):
    if list1[i] != list2[i]:
      #  Do some processing

As it turns out, this implementation appears to be about 33% faster than the
dictionary-based one.  Now, assuming that the datum being stored at each
index can fit into one character, I could do a string-based implementation
like this:
  for i in len(string1):
    if string1[i] != string[i]:
      #  Do some processing

This last solution actually runs about the same as the dictionary, which
takes 50% longer than the list implementation.

Now, my questions are:
1)  Does anyone have another suggestion as to how I can organize these data
so that I can compare many elements many times?
2)  Is there a string comparison operator that will return which indexes
have different values?  Maybe it would be faster than the iterative
comparison approach for the third implementation.
3)  Since my data are changing between the successive executions of the code
snippets above, I need a way of having the other parts of the program update
it.  But, it appears that strings are constant as I can't assign individual
characters with "string1[i] = '0'".  Is there any way around this?

Thanks!
Scott

-- 
Remove ".nospam" from the user ID in my e-mail to reply via e-mail.




From huggiepython at graffiti.idv.tw  Mon Apr 12 03:44:02 2004
From: huggiepython at graffiti.idv.tw (Timothy Wu)
Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2004 15:44:02 +0800
Subject: Best IDE?
In-Reply-To: <4ace7f9f.0404111147.3120288a@posting.google.com>
References: <c5bg1k$25vq$1@news.wplus.net>
	<4ace7f9f.0404111147.3120288a@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <407A48C2.7090500@graffiti.idv.tw>

rakanishu wrote:
> I don't know if I'd call 'em IDEs but it's worth taking the time to
> learn either emacs or vim. Both are very powerful editors that run on
> multiple platforms. I tried emacs three times, but couldn't get into
> it. I'm now getting hooked on vim. YMMV.

I love Vim. I really do. And it works wonderfully on both Linux and 
Windows with Exuberant ctags (http://ctags.sourceforge.net/) on Python 
code. However the only thing that's bugging me is once I'm used to using 
Vi(that's practically the only editor I've ever use), I'm forever stuck 
with using Vi. I wish all other real IDEs comes with Vi mode, or I can 
somehow embed Vim in there (or someone else doing it for me as I'm not 
that technical). I would love to be using an IDE if it doesn't slow me down.

Timothy



From xpythonist at yahoo.com.br  Fri Apr  2 16:35:51 2004
From: xpythonist at yahoo.com.br (=?iso-8859-1?q?Aloysio=20Figueiredo?=)
Date: Fri, 2 Apr 2004 18:35:51 -0300 (ART)
Subject: Making the Zen of Python more useful
In-Reply-To: <c4kkja$l7r$1@news-int.gatech.edu>
Message-ID: <20040402213551.14899.qmail@web61002.mail.yahoo.com>


>>> import sys
>>> t,sys.stdout = sys.stdout, file('/dev/null', 'w')
>>> from this import s
>>> sys.stdout = t
>>> s.decode('rot-13')
u"The Zen of Python..."
>>>

:) :)

Aloysio

 --- Andrew Henshaw <andrew.henshaw at gtri.gatech.edu> escreveu: > In
article <mailman.284.1080928147.20120.python-list at python.org>, 
> n3613 at klaff.org says...
> >
> >
> >from this import s
> >s.decode('rot13')
> >
> Thanks for the response.  Unfortunately, this still has the
> (generally 
> desired) behavior of the text being printed to stdout.  For the less
> general 
> case of using the text to feed some test code, I don't think that is
> best.  
> Unfortunately, I can't think of a way to accomplish both by simply
> modifying 
> the 'this' module (for future releases).  Adding another module would
> do it; 
> but, I was hoping someone could suggest a better way.  
> 
> -- 
> Andy
> 
> -- 
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list 

______________________________________________________________________

Yahoo! Mail - O melhor e-mail do Brasil! Abra sua conta agora:
http://br.yahoo.com/info/mail.html



From jacek.generowicz at cern.ch  Thu Apr  8 04:41:45 2004
From: jacek.generowicz at cern.ch (Jacek Generowicz)
Date: 08 Apr 2004 10:41:45 +0200
Subject: Dynamic creation of an object instance of a class by name
References: <10f99b0f.0404070656.5960e2c8@posting.google.com>
	<tyfk70rx044.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
	<mailman.435.1081378579.20120.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <tyf7jwqx3na.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>

Andre Meyer <meyer at acm.org> writes:

> Right, ok, well, I do not assume to know what classes can be
> instantiated,

But you are assuming that you have a string which knows, right ...

> thus anything like accessing globals() is not likely to help,
> sorry. The eval() version works pretty ok so far.

... thus I fail to see a fundamental difference between the eval and
globals approaches, in both cases you need the name of the class.

> I am develpoing a module of which other people can make use of by
> developing their own subclasses, but they need to be instantiated by
> my code. Eval() does the trick for me or is there a better way,
> assuming you do not need to know which class it might be beforehand?

Why don't you just get your users to pass whatever class object they
want, to your code ... which can then instantiate the class.

Something like:

# Your code
class your_base:
    foo = 1

def do_something_with_user_class_instance(user_class):
    uci = user_class()
    print uci
    print dir(uci)
    return uci

# User code
class user_derived(your_base):
    def __init__(self):
        self.bar = 2

do_something_with_user_class_instance(user_derived)


From jjl at pobox.com  Thu Apr 22 18:30:09 2004
From: jjl at pobox.com (John J. Lee)
Date: 22 Apr 2004 23:30:09 +0100
Subject: Book "Programming on Win32" still useful?
References: <39cbe663.0404192259.3e105972@posting.google.com>
	<GE4hc.60853$1U2.26722@twister.nyroc.rr.com>
Message-ID: <877jw7ejda.fsf@pobox.com>

"drs" <drs at remove-to-send-mail-ecpsoftware.com> writes:

> "Piet" <pit.grinja at gmx.de> wrote in message
> news:39cbe663.0404192259.3e105972 at posting.google.com...
[...]
> > still a good buy? I think it will surely be enough to get the basics,
> > but what if I want more?
> 
> It is still very useful.  While Python has changed, the parts that are
> covered in the book have not changed that much.  Further, aside from .NET,
> win32 is about the same -- particularly since you are using the version of
> windows that was current when the book was published.

New stuff not in the book: ctypes is very much worth looking at;
IronPython and other .NET efforts are worth keeping an eye on, at
least.


John


From newsgroups at jhrothjr.com  Thu Apr  8 19:14:58 2004
From: newsgroups at jhrothjr.com (John Roth)
Date: Thu, 8 Apr 2004 19:14:58 -0400
Subject: List vs tuples
References: <c54cjb$5fs$1@planja.arnes.si> <107bf8q8fhsmg5e@news.supernews.com>
	<roy-BDDD71.17205008042004@reader1.panix.com>
Message-ID: <107bn9jtoafb921@news.supernews.com>

"Roy Smith" <roy at panix.com> wrote in message
news:roy-BDDD71.17205008042004 at reader1.panix.com...
> "John Roth" <newsgroups at jhrothjr.com> wrote:
> > A list is a data structure that is intended to be used with
> > homogenous members; that is, with members of the same type.
>
> There's really nothing about a list which makes it more suitable for
> homogeneous elements than a tuple.  It's true that people do tend to
> think tuple when they want a mixed collection of objects, but there's
> nothing in the language semantics which makes that so.
>
> I've written lots of code which parses data files.  If you've got a
> sequence of arbitrary type objects, the easiest way to process them is
> often to read them sequentially and append them to a list.  I don't see
> anything wrong with that.  For example, I once had to write some code
> which parsed SQL statements that looked something like:
>
> insert into foo values (1, 2, 'foo', 3.14, 'bar', 4, 5, 'baz', ...);
>
> There were a total of about 30 items of mixed type (strings, integers,
> and floats) in the ()'s.
>
> One of the really nice things about Python (vs. C++ or Java) is that
> you're not bound by the tyranny of static typing.  This is a perfect
> example of how this makes life so simple.

This is perfectly true, but that's the intention. Guido says
so himself. Lots of people either don't believe him, or
don't understand him.

If you think of it this way, the "quirks" become understandable:
it makes no sense to append something to the end of a c type
struct, for example.

John Roth




From ny_r_marquez at yahoo.com  Fri Apr 23 16:37:26 2004
From: ny_r_marquez at yahoo.com (R.Marquez)
Date: 23 Apr 2004 13:37:26 -0700
Subject: CAD graphics with Python: Which lib, pack, tool?
References: <c6ahtq$7ig$1@newshispeed.ch>
Message-ID: <8a27e309.0404231237.6ce7c37f@posting.google.com>

"F. GEIGER" <fgeiger at datec.at> wrote in message news:<c6ahtq$7ig$1 at newshispeed.ch>...
> Hi all,
> 
> I'm dev'ing a control app, that has as a part of it a window showing
> CAD-drawings.
> 
> So I'd like to display drawings coming from DXF files. In the first place
> I'd start displaying rectangles and circles, i.e. simple shapes.
> Nevertheless, the goal is to scan DXF files for the shapes to be displayed.
> 
> PythonCAD comes to my mind. But, alas, yet I did not succeed in installing
> it on my Win2k box - the underlying graphics toolkit is missing DLLs.
> 
> But anyway, as I do not want to develop a full blown CAD program (I "simply"
> want to display, zoom an rotate them), there's probably somthing simpler out
> there for my purposes.
> 
> My app uses Python 2.3.x and wxPython (2nd latest release, upgrade any time
> soon). I dev it on Win2k which will be the first target platform. But I see
> Linux as a target already on the horizon.
> 
> So the lib should run on Win2k, but not prevent me from running on Linux.
> The lib should integrate somehow with wxPython.
> 
> OTH, there are graphic libs 'n' packs out there similar to wxPython (was it
> FOX?). So, if there are many more pros than cons, I'd consider changing from
> wxPython.
> 
> Any hint is welcome.
> 
> Best regards
> Franz GEIGER

I was going to suggest looking into embedding a drawing viewer such as
Volo View as an ActiveX component, until I realized that you want a
cross platform solution.  You may want to look at QCad which is GPLed
and cross platform (I think through GTK), but I have no idea what it
would take to embed it into your app.  I wonder if looking at the code
and/or talking with the developer you could come up with a simple DXF
reader.  (Of course you could study the DXF format on your own as
well, but I think that is what you are trying to avoid. :)

-Ruben


From jcarlson at uci.edu  Sat Apr 10 15:18:00 2004
From: jcarlson at uci.edu (Josiah Carlson)
Date: Sat, 10 Apr 2004 12:18:00 -0700
Subject: Code blocks and top posting
In-Reply-To: <slrnc7g909.1ek.ramen@lackingtalent.com>
References: <slrnc7fbrc.1ek.ramen@lackingtalent.com>
	<8ef9bea6.0404100720.65ffd2c9@posting.google.com>
	<slrnc7g909.1ek.ramen@lackingtalent.com>
Message-ID: <c59hfm$gru$1@news.service.uci.edu>

I understand your point, however...

     >>> def async_chain():
     ...     def do_step_1():
     ...         print 'Step 1.'
     ...         after_idle(do_step_2)
     ...     def do_step_2():
     ...         print 'Step 2.'
     ...         after_idle(do_step_3)
     ...     def do_step_3():
     ...         print 'Step 3.'
     ...     after_idle(do_step_1)
     ...
     >>> def after_idle(funct):
     ...     funct()
     ...
     >>> async_chain()
     Step 1.
     Step 2.
     Step 3.


And what you seem to want...

     if condition:
         funct()

     def funct():
         #body

... is not available in any modern programming language.  It is also not 
possible to handle syntactically in the Python interactive shell.

  - Josiah


From derek at hiredgoons.org  Wed Apr 14 13:19:22 2004
From: derek at hiredgoons.org (Derek Thomson)
Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2004 03:19:22 +1000
Subject: Difficulty Finding Python Developers
In-Reply-To: <65cbc3dd.0404140641.3501fde8@posting.google.com>
References: <65cbc3dd.0404140641.3501fde8@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <407d73b4@duster.adelaide.on.net>

Hi Paul,

Paul Morrow wrote:
> We haven't actually
> posted a job on Monster, but we have been talking with various
> headhunters in our area and they don't have many resumes that show
> Python experience.  An so now, of course, mgt is wondering whether
> selecting Python was a mistake.
> 

Management are wondering whether some technology selection was a mistake 
because "headhunters" with not a single clue about anything technical 
whatsoever have trouble attracting people with those skills?

These "recruitment" types are merely salespeople - if it isn't spoken 
about in glossy business magazines with lots of pictures and pie-charts 
then it doesn't exist as far as they are concerned. That is the space 
they operate in. Therefore they only *attract*, in the main, developers 
who fall into that area as well. Honestly, they probably do have more 
people than they think with Python skills in their set of clients (I 
don't know *any* professional developers who don't at least understand 
Python in a limited way), but it just doesn't register in either their 
consciousness or via their reporting tools.

Secondly, if the terminology hasn't been explained to them very 
carefully via power-point slides they just don't want to know, or at 
least find it very difficult to cope in general. I've had a couple of 
calls from "headhunters" supposedly wanting Python developers. They try 
to work through the same scripts but substituting "Python" for "Java" 
all the while. It just doesn't work - and they are doing both employers 
and potential employees a disservice by attempting to do this. No doubt 
they report back that they couldn't find anyone suitable - because 
everyone they contacted responded by asking variations of, "Do you have 
any idea what the hell you are talking about?"

So, I'd consider getting new management, fast! :) With that kind of 
logic, we would all be using COBOL to this day. Where would all the 
developers for anything else come from? How would all those poor 
"headhunters" find jobs for their clients who only know COBOL? That's 
what's in all the glossy magazines!

My advice is to use internet forums where you can recruit directly - in 
cutting edge areas like Python "headhunters" are definitely *worse* than 
useless. It will be faster, cheaper, and you'll get better people.

Regards,
Derek.


From tjreedy at udel.edu  Fri Apr  2 11:56:06 2004
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Fri, 2 Apr 2004 11:56:06 -0500
Subject: __nonzero__ of iterators
References: <c4gjup$615$1@ttt14.vie.at.tttech.ttt>
Message-ID: <c4k5v7$dnf$1@sea.gmane.org>


"Christian Eder" <eder at tttech.com> wrote in message
news:c4gjup$615$1 at ttt14.vie.at.tttech.ttt...
> I just discovered the following pitfall in Python 2.3.

It is only a pitfall for those who mistakenly think that iterator ==
(actual, in memory, Python) sequence.  They are related but quite different
in their Python meaning.  A sequence (array, actually) allows random
access.  An iterator only allows forward scanning.  A sequence, in general,
is accessed by indexing or slicing.  An iterator only returns values via a
.next method.  I don't know if the turorial emphasizes these differences
enough or not.

> Consider the following code :
>
>  >>> a = {}
>  >>> bool (a.keys ())
> False
>  >>> bool (a.iterkeys ())
> True
>
> So, an "empty" iterator evaluates to True in boolean context.

So what?  Why would you take bool() of an object known to be non-null?

> At a first glance, this is not what one would expect.

Depends on whether one mistakenly thinks iterator == sequence.

Consider: bool(0) == bool(0L) == bool(0.0) == False but bool('0') == True.
A pitfall?  Yes, for someone who thinks number representations can blindly
replace numbers (as, I have the impression, is true for some other
languages).  No, for someone who understands the difference in Python

> This causes
> several problems, e.g. if you operate on something expected to be
> sequence, and you guard your code with "if seq :" to avoid crashing into
> an empty sequence, you still crash if you get an empty iterator,

Passing an iterator to a sequence function is a bug that should cause a
crash.  So should passing a numberstring to a number function that does not
check and convert if necessary.  Consider:

if num: return hi//num

If num == '1', this will crash, as it should.  So will '''print "This
answer is " + numstring''' when numstring is an unconverted number.

> even if
> the rest of your code is able to deal with an iterator as well as with
> any other sequence type.

To repeat, an iterator is not a sequence type.  Not is a sequence and
iterator type.  But both are iterable types.

If 'the rest of your code' deals with the sequence *as a sequence*, by
using sequence access methods, then it cannot deal with the iterator 'as
well' unless you convert the iterator to a sequence with a sequence
constructor, as in 'seq = list(it)'.   (Yes, you may want to type-guard
this).  And you put that *before* your 'if seq:' guard.  But the current
idiom (see * note below) for new code is to only do this if you need random
access (to sort, for instance).

If you only need forward sequential access, the current idiom is to convert
the sequence to an iterator with 'it = iter(seq)'.  Or use a for loop which
does this for you.  Or call a function itself coded with an iter call or
for loop.  To avoid the need to test the type first, before the conversion,
iterators were defined as returning themselves in response to iter() so
that it = iter(it)' is innocuous in a way that mylist = list(mylist) may
not be.

For an explicit while loop (which is seldom needed), the idiom is

it = iter(input)
while 1:
  try:
    item = it.next
    <do something with item>
  except StopIteration:
    break

For iterators, the item-requiring code is guarded by try: except
StopIteration: instead of  if seq:.


* The reason to convert 'iterables' to iterator rather than list as the
common type is that the former scales better as one expands to serially
processing millions, billions, and even trillions of items.  In addition,
for statements convert to iterator anyway.  (The current exception for
old-iterator-protocol objects will, I am sure, disappear sometime in the
future.)

Also, in the (possibly mythical) future, Guido would like to change generic
list-returning functions and methods to return iterators instead.
('Generic' means no specific reason to do otherwise, as there obviously is
with tuple, list, list.sequence, list.sort, etc.)  So, for instance,
dict.iterkeys would be renamed dict.keys and the current dict.keys (which
effectively equals list(dict.iterkeys()) anyway) would disappear -- and
this post could no longer happen ;-)

Terry J. Reedy






From michele.simionato at poste.it  Sun Apr  4 00:45:32 2004
From: michele.simionato at poste.it (Michele Simionato)
Date: 3 Apr 2004 21:45:32 -0800
Subject: emergent/swarm/evolutionary systems etc
References: <c4aeq8$92a$1@hercules.btinternet.com>
	<c4btjr$8il$1@titan.btinternet.com>
	<c4ccs2$l9j$1@news.service.uci.edu>
Message-ID: <95aa1afa.0404032145.7b3b9466@posting.google.com>

Josiah Carlson <jcarlson at uci.edu> wrote in message news:<c4ccs2$l9j$1 at news.service.uci.edu>...
> Want to run a file?  (be careful though, executing the contents of a 
> file can be dangerous)...
>    fil = open('filename', 'rb')
>    contents = fil.read()
>    fil.close()
>    exec(contents)

or just use execfile('filename') or even import filename.


            Michele Simionato


From lance.ellinghaus at eds.com  Thu Apr 29 13:07:05 2004
From: lance.ellinghaus at eds.com (Ellinghaus, Lance)
Date: Thu, 29 Apr 2004 13:07:05 -0400
Subject: Modules to create XML for OpenOffice
Message-ID: <79D80D394197764997DC956801CABCEEA9A5AE@ushem204.exse01.exch.eds.com>

Has anyone created a set of modules to facilitate creation of XM Document
files for OpenOffice?

lance

Lance Ellinghaus
TWAI Operations Integration/Special Projects
Work Phone: 214-922-6458
Work Cell: 972-877-0409
Nextel: 142*52*5511
Home Phone: 940-271-1274
Email: lance.ellinghaus at eds.com





From shane at zope.com  Thu Apr  1 12:14:07 2004
From: shane at zope.com (Shane Hathaway)
Date: Thu, 01 Apr 2004 12:14:07 -0500
Subject: Python conference slogan
In-Reply-To: <30260531.0404010833.1b834032@posting.google.com>
References: <mailman.189.1080759511.20120.python-list@python.org>	<kmjsj1-89u.ln1@snout.lairds.org>
	<c4glmq$j1i$1@swifty.westend.com>
	<30260531.0404010833.1b834032@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <406C4DDF.5000907@zope.com>

simo wrote:
> Peter Maas <fpetermaas at netscape.net> wrote:
> 
> 
>>I surrender immediately and have to admit that I don't get it (One
>>Nation Under Under Python). Google was no help. I couldn't find the
>>source, only echoes (seems to be a wide spread joke pattern in the
>>US). Care to give us ignorants a hint?
> 
> 
> Yeah, as an Englishman, I don't get it either (despite living in the US).

Ok, it's definitely not good.  It's a cross between the U.S. Pledge of 
Allegience and Python's use of double-underscores.  It was *not* 
intended to suggest that Python replaces deity. ;-)

Any creative suggestions?

Shane



From pm_mon at yahoo.com  Tue Apr 20 10:21:46 2004
From: pm_mon at yahoo.com (Paul Morrow)
Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 10:21:46 -0400
Subject: Difficulty Finding Python Developers
In-Reply-To: <roy-A69D29.18562119042004@reader2.panix.com>
References: <65cbc3dd.0404140641.3501fde8@posting.google.com>
	<roy-A69D29.18562119042004@reader2.panix.com>
Message-ID: <c63blu$96i$1@sea.gmane.org>

Yes, that's our ad.  I guess hr wasn't as careful as they should've been 
when they authored it (there's also a mispelled word)... :-(

You probably already realized this, but that should've been $45 to $55 
per hour.

Roy Smith wrote:
> pm_mon at yahoo.com (Paul Morrow) wrote:
> 
>>We've worked hard to convince our company to migrate our core
>>applications to Python, and now we're looking for a Python developer
>>in Atlanta to handle a short-term (approx. 3 month) project.  But our
>>initial searches have been fairly unsuccessful.  We haven't actually
>>posted a job on Monster, but we have been talking with various
>>headhunters in our area and they don't have many resumes that show
>>Python experience.  An so now, of course, mgt is wondering whether
>>selecting Python was a mistake.
>>
>>As anyone had a similar experience?  Suggestions?
> 
> 
> I'm guessing this is your ad:
> 
> Company: Loyaltyworks, Inc.
> Location: Atlanta, GA 30305
> Salary/Wage: 45.00 - 55.00 USD /year
> Status: Per Diem, Temporary/Contract/Project
> 
> I think you'd do better if you were willing to pay a bit more.  Most 
> developers find it difficult to pay the rent on $55 a year. :-)




From atheist at pandora.be  Tue Apr  6 06:14:51 2004
From: atheist at pandora.be (Wouter Vanden Hove)
Date: Tue, 06 Apr 2004 12:14:51 +0200
Subject: error installing packages
Message-ID: <c4tqg4$v9n$1@gaudi2.UGent.be>

I'm trying to install Numeric on a mandrake-9.1 box
but I get following error:


[root at localhost numarray-0.9]# python setup.py install
'import site' failed; use -v for traceback
Using EXTRA_COMPILE_ARGS = []
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "setup.py", line 153, in ?
    main()
  File "setup.py", line 144, in main
    setup(**p)
  File "/usr/lib/python2.3/distutils/core.py", line 135, in setup
    ok = dist.parse_command_line()
  File "/usr/lib/python2.3/distutils/dist.py", line 422, in
parse_command_line
    args = self._parse_command_opts(parser, args)
  File "/usr/lib/python2.3/distutils/dist.py", line 469, in
_parse_command_opts
    cmd_class = self.get_command_class(command)
  File "/usr/lib/python2.3/distutils/dist.py", line 770, in
get_command_class
    __import__ (module_name)
  File "/usr/lib/python2.3/distutils/command/install.py", line 22, in ?
    libname = sys.lib
AttributeError: 'module' object has no attribute 'lib'


How is this to be solved?


Wouter


From peter at engcorp.com  Thu Apr 15 09:13:26 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2004 09:13:26 -0400
Subject: Difficulty Finding Python Developers
In-Reply-To: <ca6d23f8.0404150426.5daf0b7d@posting.google.com>
References: <65cbc3dd.0404140641.3501fde8@posting.google.com>
	<65cbc3dd.0404141018.36d9d4ce@posting.google.com>
	<ca6d23f8.0404150426.5daf0b7d@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <kKSdnSaWjO_rF-PdRVn-jg@powergate.ca>

A B Carter wrote:
> 2 - Start setting expectations with management. For example, explain
> that if there are not a lot of Python programmers it's because it's a
> new language that
> it builds on the strengths of langauges such as C++, Java and perl
> while avoiding their weaknesses. 

If I were his management, here I might say, "But I thought you
said Python was older than Java!  If it's so good, why hasn't it
caught on more than Java?" or "How can it build on the strengths
of Java when it's older?"

> Mention that when you do find a
> Python programmer he'll probably be better than your average perl or
> Java programmer. 

And here I would ask, "Why do you say that?  If there are so
few of them around, how could anyone know whether they're better
or worse?  And wouldn't the best programmers be using the most
popular languages, because they would make more money that way?"

 > Make the argument that you get what you pay for, and
> the extra expense of Python is worth it.

"I thought you said Python was free... now you're telling me it's
going to cost us more than the other languages because it's so hard
to hire anyone who knows it?"

> 3 - With 2 out of the way consider rethinking how this three month
> project should be done. If Python talent is scarce then it might make
> more sense to develop in-house talent. This may no longer be a three
> month project but down the road your in a more solid position, which
> ,if you think about it, is a basic part of what Python is all about.

Good advice here, IMHO. :-)  This is what we did when first considering
Python, by the way, and I had a co-op student learn the langauge and
develop a GPIB interface with a wrapper around a DLL using "calldll".
It took him about a week to learn Python, about a week to get a basic
calldll wrapper working, about a week to implement a simple RF test
for one of the devices the company made (controlling two signal
generators and a spectrum analyzer) and about a week to figure out how
to slap a simple GUI on it using Tkinter.

I wonder if this "three month project" has much more than that in it...

-Peter


From llothar at web.de  Wed Apr 14 18:40:35 2004
From: llothar at web.de (Lothar Scholz)
Date: 14 Apr 2004 15:40:35 -0700
Subject: Difficulty Finding Python Developers
References: <65cbc3dd.0404140641.3501fde8@posting.google.com>
	<407D6269.3090909@engcorp.com>
Message-ID: <6ee58e07.0404141440.4d8ab0f4@posting.google.com>

Peter Hansen <peter at engcorp.com> wrote in message news:<407D6269.3090909 at engcorp.com>...
> Paul Morrow wrote:


> Don't hire "Python programmers".  I successfully staffed a team
> with over twenty five developers over the last five years, without
> once hiring anyone who was a "Python programmer".  I did make an

There is a difference between a long term development team and a three
month milestone programm task. In the later case you must hire an
experienced python programmer - if possible.


From sean_berry at cox.net  Fri Apr 23 01:42:44 2004
From: sean_berry at cox.net (Sean Berry)
Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2004 22:42:44 -0700
Subject: Python CGI: how to retrieve variables passed by URL
References: <hU1ic.86730$U83.37750@fed1read03>
Message-ID: <w22ic.86731$U83.57026@fed1read03>

This may help, but not sure if there is a better, built in way.

print os.environ["QUERY_STRING"].split("=")[1]

prints value if I use localhost/cgi-bin/script-name.cgi?variable=value and
this will work... but is there a better way?



"Sean Berry" <sean_berry at cox.net> wrote in message
news:hU1ic.86730$U83.37750 at fed1read03...
> If I go to my cgi python script with
> localhost/cgi-bin/script-name.cgi?variable=value
>
> How do I gather this value?
>
> Thanks in advance.
>
>




From slurper1234 at hotmail.com  Sun Apr 11 19:28:59 2004
From: slurper1234 at hotmail.com (slurper)
Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2004 01:28:59 +0200
Subject: Python OS
References: <107j4eu6ffn2c68@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <4079d494$0$1355$ba620e4c@news.skynet.be>

"A Evans" <ae> wrote:

> I have a question concerning the development of Python Based Operating
> System. You see I have had sort of a dream to develop an Open Source
> Operating System that would revolutionize the OS market and Since I
> started using Python I have fallen in love with the language. Reading
> articles here and there I have read that Python is a more secure language
> than C. I also read another article (I can't remember which) saying Python
> would not be able to develop an OS. I don't believe its true however. I am
> by no means a programmer at this stage. But as I learn more and more I see
> Python as the Holy Grail of programming languages

entirely crazy for production os, spending lots of time as a hobby project
but you're right about python...

> 
> My questions would then be, is Python capable of creating an OS from
> scratch and if so would it be plausible if possible
> 
> Cheers
> 
> A python NewBie - Man I hate that term does anyone else
> 
> See Ya



From alexanro at stud.ntnu.no  Sun Apr 18 19:31:46 2004
From: alexanro at stud.ntnu.no (=?iso-8859-1?q?Alexander_R=F8dseth?=)
Date: Mon, 19 Apr 2004 01:31:46 +0200
Subject: Pygame
References: <c5jdv2$s4$1@orkan.itea.ntnu.no>
	<xZydnfgqeaiK3ODdRVn-tw@powergate.ca>
	<c5jgvh$2m5$1@orkan.itea.ntnu.no>
	<mailman.620.1081958099.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<gandreas-33F0F9.12165314042004@news.mpls.visi.com>
	<c5jt79$8m6$1@orkan.itea.ntnu.no>
	<z4GdnXzhXbzZGuDdRVn-vg@powergate.ca>
	<pan.2004.04.18.22.02.19.625997@stud.ntnu.no>
	<Xns94D0B00218E1JanC@213.119.4.35>
Message-ID: <pan.2004.04.18.23.31.45.70115@stud.ntnu.no>

Thanks for the link and the thought.
Enthought is probably an interesting project.

However, I just want to know why fullscreen graphics
is not included in Python by default.

Besides, a huge amount of the power of Python-scripts
comes from knowing what other people has installed already.

- Alexander



From rawbobb at hotmail.com  Thu Apr 29 20:28:11 2004
From: rawbobb at hotmail.com (bobb)
Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2004 00:28:11 GMT
Subject: How to read a file from another server?  Newbie
References: <%Oejc.16$ph.9@fed1read07>
	<9ugjc.3709$g31.1370@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net>
	<c6k9fh$3t9$1@bagan.srce.hr> <Yyjjc.2071$Jy3.1146@fed1read03>
Message-ID: <v4hkc.4707$wY.813@nwrdny03.gnilink.net>

Sean, what kind of server are you trying to get at  where the file exists?

bobb

"Sean Berry" <sean_berry at cox.net> wrote in message
news:Yyjjc.2071$Jy3.1146 at fed1read03...
> ssh I think.
>
>
> "Ivan Voras" <ivoras at __geri.cc.fer.hr> wrote in message
> news:c6k9fh$3t9$1 at bagan.srce.hr...
> > Edward Diener wrote:
> >
> > > Sean Berry wrote:
> > >
> > >>I am trying to read in a file from another server.
> > >>
> > >>If I try
> > >>x = open("servername:/path/to/file", "r")
> > >
> > >
> > > x = open("servername://path/to/file", "r")
> >
> > Um, what does this to? What protocol does it use?
>
>




From tkpmep at hotmail.com  Thu Apr 22 16:09:06 2004
From: tkpmep at hotmail.com (Thomas Philips)
Date: 22 Apr 2004 13:09:06 -0700
Subject: Deleting objects - my earler post got garbled
Message-ID: <b4a8ffb6.0404221209.d612c6@posting.google.com>

I have a question about deleting objects. My game has two classes,
Player and Alien, essentially identical, instances of which can shoot
at each other. Player is described below

class Player(object):
    #Class attributes for class Player
    n=0 #n is the number of players

    #Private methods for class Player
    def __init__(self,name):
        self.name = name
        self.strength = 100
        Player.n +=1

    def __del__(self):
        Player.n -=1
        print "I guess I lost this battle"
    
    #Public methods for class Player
    def blast(self,enemy,energy):
        enemy.hit(energy)

    def hit(self,energy):
        self.strength -= energy
        if(self.strength <= 50):
            self.__del__()

I instantiate one instance of each class: 
Hero = Player("Me")
Villain = Alien("Not Me")

If Hero hits Villain with 
Hero.blast(Villain, 100), 

Villain dies and executes its destructor (__del__). The game then
ends. However, 

1. When I execute the program in IDLE, IT FINISHES BY EXECUTING THE
DESTRUCTOR FOR BOTH HERO AND VILLAIN. How can this be? As one of the
two objects was destroyed prior to the end of the game, how can it be
re-destroyed when the program ends?

2. After Hero hits Villain with an energy of 100, Villain executes its
destructor, but I find I can then type
Villain.blast(Hero,100)
and have the alien (whose demise had me gloating) blast me right back!
Why is it that the blast() method works for an object whose destructor
has been executed?

Thomas Philips
Post a follow-up to this message


From cnoviello at hotmail.com  Sun Apr 25 12:16:24 2004
From: cnoviello at hotmail.com (Carmine Noviello)
Date: Sun, 25 Apr 2004 16:16:24 GMT
Subject: [ANN]PyCrash-0.4pre2 released
Message-ID: <mailman.1082983923.25181.clpa-moderators@python.org>

Hi,
a new version of PyCrash is released with new features and improvement.You
can
download it at:

http://sourceforge.net/project/showfiles.php?group_id=98026&package_id=111026&release_id=233776

What's new in this release:

* Added a new method to PyCrash class, forceDump(), that forces the creation
  of the crash dump, if an exception is raised. forceDump() can be very
useful
  when an exception hasn't reached the top-level, but the user wants the
same
  to make a dump of the application context.

* Starting from this release, by default, PyCrash doesn't start exception
tracing
  automatically. User must invoke the enable() method to start tracing, and
can
  use the disable() method to stop tracing in every moment.

* Now the getEncryptedCrashDump() method of utils.Encrypt.EncryptedPyCrash
class
  is deprecated, and it will be no longer supported starting from
PyCrash-0.4 release.
  Use instead the getCrashDump() method.

* Added a new class HTMLPyCrash, in the pycrash.util module, which converts
the crash
  dump in HTML format rather than XML. The generated HTML dump is based on
CSS, so
  the developer can define custom CSS to arrange the output. There is also a
new
  script in the util subdir, named pucrash2html.py, which converts PyCrash
file in
  HTML format. You can see an example of the output generated by the HTML
dumper here:

  http://pycrash.sourceforge.net/test-pycrash.html


Enjoy!

_______________________________________________________________________
About PyCrash Project:
PyCrash is a Run-Time Exception Dumper which handles uncaught exceptions
during the execution of Python programs and collects information about
the program context. PyCrash can be very useful in report bug information,
because the programmer can easily analyse the program execution context
of the crashed application.

Major information collected by PyCrash in the crash dump is:

- Information about operating system, Python and Python Standard
  Library version and general information about the program that is
  crashed (e.g., program name and version, time at witch program
  started and ended, and so on)

- Information about the uncaught exceptions, like the exception type,
  the context (namely method name) in which the exception occurred and
  the exception value

- General information about variables state

- Information about the stack of each thread, like the list of stack
  frames, the variables value in each stack frame, and so on

- General information about source code, like variable and function
  position in source file that can be useful for the programmer to find
  quickly bugs in source tree

The format of the crash dump file generated by PyCrash is XML, so the
programmer can easily read this file to understand why the program is
crashed.

Now, is also available a GUI browser, named PyCrash Viewer, which allows
developers to analyze quickly and easily PyCrash crash dump files in a
graphical manner.

* Starting from next version, we'll try to document all the PyCrash API

More information can be found at:

http://www.pycrash.org

Thanks!

<P><A HREF="http://www.pycrash.org";>PyCrash 0.4pre2</A> - a crash
handler for Python written applications. (25-04-04)</P>




From asdf at asdf.com  Tue Apr 27 06:34:11 2004
From: asdf at asdf.com (asdf sdf)
Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2004 10:34:11 GMT
Subject: python for MVS legacy access?
Message-ID: <DGqjc.41580$Mp3.29407@newssvr29.news.prodigy.com>

wondering what python resources might be available for python-based 
legacy system access, particularly to MVS, DB2 and Adabas.  What 
additional pieces might be needed to implement this access?

Python would be running on Unix and need to do Adabas and DB2 access.

Screen-scraping is a common technique.  Any screen scraping modules for 
python?  I assume this would require an SNA gateway on the unix system 
to enable 3270 emulation?  True?

How about telnet for 3270? Plenty of python support for telnet.  A 
hundred years ago, I used telnet for 3270 access over a dialup line.  Is 
telnet access likely to be available on a contemporary system?  Would it 
support some kind of database access?

How about python database interfaces for DB2 and Adabas?  I see the 
PyDB2 module mentioned at python.org.  Any know have any experience with 
it?  No mention of any Adabas support at python.org.

I assume that the pyDB2 module would require installation of some 
underlying DB2 proprietary libraries for Unix.   Similar to SQL*Net for 
Oracle.  True?

Does python to MVS access raise any special security issues?  Does 
support for any of these ideas create any special hardship on the MVS 
sysadmin/DBA side?





From titi2027 at netplus.ch  Mon Apr 26 14:56:21 2004
From: titi2027 at netplus.ch (titouille)
Date: 26 Apr 2004 11:56:21 -0700
Subject: How to pass the focus on python application
Message-ID: <ab77776f.0404261056.2e28d0c6@posting.google.com>

Hi everybody !

first, sorry for my poor english, I'm french mothertongue ;)

technologies :
--------------
Python 2.3
Twisted Matrix 1.2.0
wxPython 2.5.1

platform :
----------
winXP


I explain my problem : 

I try to build a multi-plateform python socket server to interact with
flash animations.
Animations send by xmlSocket xml string, server intercept string,
parse it, execute method and return result as xml string to the
FlashXmlSocket.

at beginning, xml sended string contains DOM document who describe one
or multiples operation(s) to execute. So final xml string (with return
results) contains already one or multiple return execution statements

When i use serveal methods like OpenFile or SaveFile, DialogBox
appears on the screen.

But it appear not on the top, because focus is on flash animation...
So if flash animation is for exemple in full-screen, user don't see
the opened dialog-box...

How to, on each platform (win, linux, mac), add a method to set the
focus on the server if it's required ??

for example, send xml contain method like this :

1. setFocusToServer ()
3. setNewWorkingDirectory (path)
2. OpenDialog (message, defaultDirectory, defaultFile, wildcard)

and add a --

setFocusToServer (self)

	if wx.Platform == '__WXMAC__':
		# code to focus server on mac when required

	elif wx.Platform == '__WXMSW__':
		# code to focus server on window when required

	elif wx.Platform == '__WXGTK__ || wx.Platform == '__WXMOTIF__ :
		# code to focus server on linux when required


-- method to focus application on each platform

many thanks in advance for your ideas, url and experience about this
subject


Thierry


From roy at panix.com  Tue Apr 27 22:37:08 2004
From: roy at panix.com (Roy Smith)
Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2004 22:37:08 -0400
Subject: Is Perl *that* good?
References: <c6ich0$c5mee$1@ID-205437.news.uni-berlin.de>
	<knbjc.267$id.3998@news2.e.nsc.no>
	<pan.2004.04.26.20.50.19.843510@hotmail.com>
	<87fzaqmm8t.fsf@strauser.com>
	<38ec68a6.0404262308.50029919@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.49.1083084698.25742.python-list@python.org>
	<pan.2004.04.27.18.15.56.169064@hotmail.com>
	<Z_Bjc.1397$ZD3.139@fe1.columbus.rr.com>
	<roy-C1F2BF.19434527042004@reader2.panix.com>
	<ECCjc.30580$Vp5.25085@fe2.columbus.rr.com>
	<roy-15912E.20355127042004@reader2.panix.com>
	<XwEjc.31513$Vp5.16074@fe2.columbus.rr.com>
Message-ID: <roy-A4B407.22370827042004@reader2.panix.com>

Carl Banks <imbosol at aerojockey.invalid> wrote:
> especially because regexps are
> prone to being used in recursive functions and such

Why are regexps prone to being used in recursive functions?


From jgentil at sebistar.net  Fri Apr  2 20:49:19 2004
From: jgentil at sebistar.net (Jon-Pierre Gentil)
Date: Fri, 02 Apr 2004 19:49:19 -0600
Subject: Major memory leak during embedding Python in C++
In-Reply-To: <ce7b3488.0404021027.fddab8a@posting.google.com>
References: <ce7b3488.0404021027.fddab8a@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <106s610hae92ldb@corp.supernews.com>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Ben Held wrote:
> Having recently upgraded to Python 2.4, I am having a large memory
> leak with the following code built with VC++ 6.0:

Your first mistake is that Python 2.3.3 is the latest version.
Wherever you got Python 2.4, I'd be scared.


- --
::  Jon-Pierre Gentil
::  PGP Key ID 0xA21BC30E
::  Jabber: jgentil at jabber.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.2.4 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://enigmail.mozdev.org

iEYEARECAAYFAkBuGB8ACgkQOrVFmaIbww7pBgCeNSQFcfLnAHVzEzXyxOZqZJfV
6D0Aniso/bD/iGxMtyqRhpF/QUoWTsu7
=JNV2
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----


From simoninusa2001 at yahoo.co.uk  Sat Apr 10 14:23:01 2004
From: simoninusa2001 at yahoo.co.uk (simo)
Date: 10 Apr 2004 11:23:01 -0700
Subject: wxListCtrl with CheckBox?
References: <30260531.0404092256.6b58e3a1@posting.google.com>
	<Xns94C769C7240B3cpl19ghumspamgourmet@62.153.159.134>
Message-ID: <30260531.0404101023.68179d59@posting.google.com>

Harald Massa <cpl.19.ghum at spamgourmet.com> wrote:

> > I've got a report list and want to have a checkbox in the last column
> > of each row.

> Get the checkbos in the first column of each row and use a wx.checklistbox 

No that won't work as you can't put any widgets in the first column of
a wxListCtrl, only a bitmap.

And a wxCheckListBox is entirely different from a list *with*
checkboxes - it's a list *of* checkboxes IYSWIM.

Plus, it really has to be in the last column for my app :-(

I fear I'm getting to the point I was when I gave up on PyQt - I've
run out of widgets, and am going to have to start looking at making my
own somehow.....


From lbates at swamisoft.com  Fri Apr  9 10:40:17 2004
From: lbates at swamisoft.com (Larry Bates)
Date: Fri, 9 Apr 2004 09:40:17 -0500
Subject: how to force a python service to reconfigure itself after
	updating?
References: <c548h3$8gh$1@nemesis.news.tpi.pl>
Message-ID: <bdGdnceh5fdMKOvd4p2dnA@comcast.com>

You could move the reading of the configuration
file inside the loop so it is read each time
the service wakes up.  Unless your configuration
file is huge (10,000+ lines), the overhead is
negligible.

The other alternative is to put a socket server
inside the service and have a small external
program to send something to it when it needs
to reread the config file.

Regards,
Larry Bates
Syscon, Inc.


"Farraige" <farraige at interia.pl> wrote in message
news:c548h3$8gh$1 at nemesis.news.tpi.pl...
> Hi!
>
> I hope you will help me. I have the following problem....
> I have implemented a Windows NT service using win32serviceutil. The
service
> runs a 'working loop' in another thread and waits for the stop event to be
> set. A working loop thread checks the space used by logfiles against the
> given upper limit and deletes the files, if the upper limit is reached.
> After each space analysis it sleeps for about 30 minutes. The service
> handles start/stop/restart/.../update parameters from the command line.
> Update command updates by default all the changes made in the service
python
> code without need to restart the service... What about the situation if my
> service reads some configuration datas from its config file? If I change
> some data in the configuration files, those changes "will not be seen"
after
> using update parameter due to none change was made in the service code. Do
> you have an idea how to overload the standard behaviour of using update
> command line parameter to force the service to reconfigure itself without
> restarting? I don't now how to implement communication between the main
> function that handles all command (thanks to
> win32serviceutil.HandleCommandLine) line parameters and the working thread
> that is started by the service in its SvcRun method?
>
> Thanks in advance for any hints!
>
> Best wishes,
>
> Niki
>
>




From peter at semantico.com  Wed Apr  7 10:20:28 2004
From: peter at semantico.com (Peter Hickman)
Date: Wed, 07 Apr 2004 15:20:28 +0100
Subject: design by contract versus doctest
In-Reply-To: <40740321$0$5063$4d4ebb8e@news.nl.uu.net>
References: <407174ea$0$5066$4d4ebb8e@news.nl.uu.net>
	<4072977b$0$1699$afc38c87@news.easynet.co.uk>
	<4073c94a$0$5066$4d4ebb8e@news.nl.uu.net>
	<4073cf1b$0$18217$afc38c87@news.easynet.co.uk>
	<40740321$0$5063$4d4ebb8e@news.nl.uu.net>
Message-ID: <40740e2e$0$27667$afc38c87@news.easynet.co.uk>

aku wrote:
> I recall correctly, the author himself mention's  that DBC is squarely 
> based on dijkstra's earlier theoretical basis.....

Oh god I'm going to have to read it all again!


From peter at engcorp.com  Tue Apr 13 21:31:46 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2004 21:31:46 -0400
Subject: Looking for Python Definition
In-Reply-To: <ZvSdnbu-i7FDF-Hd4p2dnA@comcast.com>
References: <ZvSdnbu-i7FDF-Hd4p2dnA@comcast.com>
Message-ID: <2Z-dnTP30LwfCeHd4p2dnA@powergate.ca>

Dave wrote:
> Greetings!
> Python22 is installed on my WINXP Home PC.
> I have no idea what is does, or why it is installed.
> I am not a programmer and do not know what purpose this program provides to
> me.
> 
> Any and all information and suggestions are welcome.

Read this:

http://www.python.org/doc/faq/installed.html

-Peter


From peter at engcorp.com  Fri Apr 30 07:56:07 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2004 07:56:07 -0400
Subject: urllib2/cookies - surely there's a better way ?
In-Reply-To: <282f826a.0404292248.7b71c7d6@posting.google.com>
References: <282f826a.0404292248.7b71c7d6@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <84KdnfW3OoNKow_dRVn-vg@powergate.ca>

Richard Shea wrote:

(about urllib2 and cookies)

Search for "ClientCookie"...


From R.Brodie at rl.ac.uk  Fri Apr  2 08:25:57 2004
From: R.Brodie at rl.ac.uk (Richard Brodie)
Date: Fri, 2 Apr 2004 14:25:57 +0100
Subject: Travelling salesman variation in python
References: <slrnc6on9h.spl.erlendga@tva.ifi.uio.no>
	<slrnc6qdum.8l0.ncw@irishsea.home.craig-wood.com>
	<c4jikc$eq4$1@swifty.westend.com>
	<c4jp26$jko$1@newsg4.svr.pol.co.uk>
Message-ID: <c4jpl6$hig@newton.cc.rl.ac.uk>


"Duncan Smith" <buzzard at urubu.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in message
news:c4jp26$jko$1 at newsg4.svr.pol.co.uk...

> No, you're not.  I think simulated annealing is a decent candidate for this
> problem.  The difficulty (in my experience) is in finding decent parameters
> for the cooling schedule, so you can find good solutions in reasonable time.

The book, "Numerical Recipes" contains a description of simulating annealing,
giving the travelling salesman problem as an example. Extracts available online.




From jcarlson at uci.edu  Wed Apr  7 02:01:47 2004
From: jcarlson at uci.edu (Josiah Carlson)
Date: Tue, 06 Apr 2004 23:01:47 -0700
Subject: slightly OT: BUT NEEDs to be said
In-Reply-To: <213df9a1.0404060804.33d68297@posting.google.com>
References: <lvOdnRJzZ9244ezdRVn-uQ@powergate.ca>	<8b42d1998c978c8c1cddf15c52a1c57b@dizum.com>
	<mailman.369.1081197825.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<213df9a1.0404060804.33d68297@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <c505ml$4p$1@news.service.uci.edu>

Arthur wrote:

> "Mike C. Fletcher" <mcfletch at rogers.com> wrote in message news:<mailman.369.1081197825.20120.python-list at python.org>...
> 
> 
>>Sometimes other 
>>people like TV shows we think are insipid or offensive, this too is part 
>>of life, and if you realise and accept that (within reason) you'll be 
>>happier and more content.
> 
> 
> Despite having loud issues about community conformity and peer
> pressures (isolated issues, but loud ones) I must say that the fact
> that the Holy Grail movie was one of only 3 I ever walked out on,
> hasn't seemed to brand me. I was feeling particularly fragile, I
> remember, and looking for comic relief.  The dismembering stuff - as a
> comic notion - didn't work for me, at the moment. Wuss.
> 
> For those on the edge of their seats:
> 
> 2. Problem Child: "If he pees in the lemonade" , I told my son, "we're
> out of here".  He pees in the lemonade.
> 
> 3. Priscilla Queen of the Desert: There were options, it seemed to me.
> Take off the dress in the Outback, being one. There has to be a way to
> promote a message of tolerance, it seems to me, without making putzes
> out of guys living on their brawn and wits in the Outback.
> 
> Art


You are lumping "Monty Python and the Holy Grail", "Problem Child" and 
"The Adventures of Priscilla, Queen of the Desert" together in one 
message saying, "they all suck" (to some degree or another).

If at any point you thought "Problem Child" was going to be good to 
watch, either for you or your son, then you need a /serious/ parental 
wakeup call.  Watching 30 seconds of trailer when I was 10, was enough 
to convince me that it was a worthless piece of crap, and I was part of 
the core demographic.

As an aside, have you bothered to see "...Holy Grail" since you walked 
out of it, or have you damned it based on your impression of it while 
you were "feeling particularly fragile"?  Just curious.

As for you not enjoying "Priscilla...", well, that is unfortunate. 
However, the message was not that of tolerance, tolerance carries one 
unfortunate meaning - you tolerate the kid on the airplane kicking your 
seat.  Perhaps you meant acceptance.  And yes, there have been many 
movies about non-heterosexual lifestyles made, some better, some worse. 
  The choices the writer/director made in regards to "Priscilla..." were 
his to make, and again, it is unfortunate that you didn't enjoy the movie.

  - Josiah


From no.email at please.com  Sat Apr 10 15:48:42 2004
From: no.email at please.com (Stevie_mac)
Date: Sat, 10 Apr 2004 20:48:42 +0100
Subject: Simple Class Question - need clarity please
References: <EYFdc.51749$Id.27192@news-binary.blueyonder.co.uk>
	<2tce701vv505395hcr6dqtvc8ot0fdmkrk@4ax.com>
	<c57d1q$1euk$1@news.wplus.net>
	<CaKdc.4701$I83.74460@twister.tampabay.rr.com>
	<c58iha$gsf$1@news.wplus.net>
	<urig70ppe9f6015e9vi73qht5esl2d4kiu@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <lcYdc.58496$Id.22732@news-binary.blueyonder.co.uk>

Yes, I've since found the to be the case (reload).  I realised it didn't like some formatting & held onto the old (bad)
code.

I had corrected some indentation ( a tab character was used in 1 line were all others were spaces ). Once corrected, I
reloaded & all was OK

PS, using activepython (pythonwin) in windows

"Alan Gauld" <alan.gauld at btinternet.com> wrote in message news:urig70ppe9f6015e9vi73qht5esl2d4kiu at 4ax.com...
> On Sat, 10 Apr 2004 11:33:37 +0100, "Stevie_mac"
> <no.email at please.com> wrote:
>
> > very odd. Works for my now too. Is there some sort of cache that
> > holds onto old (bad) code?
> >
>
> How were you running it? From an OS command prompt or from the
> IDLE shell (or any other python) prompt? If the latter maybe you
> needed to do a
>
> >>> (mywindow)
>
> But if from the OS prompt it should be fine.
>
> Alan g.
>
> Author of the Learn to Program website
> http://www.freenetpages.co.uk/hp/alan.gauld




From Holger.Joukl at LBBW.de  Tue Apr 20 11:28:15 2004
From: Holger.Joukl at LBBW.de (Holger Joukl)
Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 17:28:15 +0200
Subject: Tutorial
Message-ID: <OF62131233.28FE73F0-ONC1256E7C.00545DEA-C1256E7C.0054E6A3@lbbw.sko.de>


>>hello, i need a good tutorial for Python, nothing for beginners
>>wfw S?ren

If you want to buy a book, consider David Beazley?s "Python: Essential
Reference" (New Riders).
One of the best programming language books I have ever seen, but you should
have some programming
experience.
Otherwise you could stick to python?s own documentation - fine as well.
G
  H.

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From nuffsaid at phreaker.net  Thu Apr 29 17:44:22 2004
From: nuffsaid at phreaker.net (Nuff Said)
Date: Thu, 29 Apr 2004 23:44:22 +0200
Subject: locale.CODESET / different in python shell and scripts
References: <pan.2004.04.26.23.23.56.718739@phreaker.net>
	<c6mfs1$99j$01$1@news.t-online.com>
	<pan.2004.04.28.22.37.39.159529@phreaker.net>
	<4091621F.5060307@v.loewis.de>
Message-ID: <pan.2004.04.29.21.44.21.815390@phreaker.net>

On Thu, 29 Apr 2004 22:14:23 +0200, Martin v. L?wis wrote:
> PLEASE invoke
> 
> locale.setlocale(locale.LC_ALL, "")
> 
> before invoking nl_langinfo. Different C libraries behave differently
> in their nl_langinfo responses if setlocale hasn't been called.

Thanks a lot for your help! 

That solved (part of) the problem; now I get 'UTF-8' (which is correct) 
when running the following script (with either my self-compiled Python 
2.3 or Fedora's Python 2.2):
    
  #!/usr/bin/env python
  # -*- coding: UTF-8 -*-

  import locale

  locale.setlocale(locale.LC_ALL, "")
  encoding = locale.nl_langinfo(locale.CODESET)
  print encoding


Still, one problem remains: 

When I add the following line to the above script

  print u"sch?nes M?dchen".encode(encoding)

the result is:

  sch?nes M?dchen    (with my self-compiled Python 2.3)
  sch??nes M??dchen  (with Fedora's Python 2.2)

I observed, that my Python gives me (the correct value) 15 for
len(u"sch?nes M?dchen") whereas Fedora's Python says 17 (one more
for each German umlaut, i.e. the len of the UTF-8 representation of
the string; observe, that the file uses the coding cookie for UTF-8).
Maybe Fedora's Python was compiled without Unicode support?

  (Is that even possible? I recall something about a UCS2 resp.
  UCS4 switch when compiling Python; but without Unicode support?
  And if it would be possible, shouldn't a Python without Unicode
  support disallow strings of the form u"..." resp. show a warning???)


This really drives me nuts because I thought the above approach
should be the correct way to assure that Python scripts can print
non-ASCII characters on any terminal (which is able to display 
those characters in some encoding as UTF-8, ISO-8859-x, ...).

Is there something I do utterly wrong here? 
Python can't be that complicated?

Nuff.



From nuffsaid at phreaker.net  Wed Apr 28 18:37:39 2004
From: nuffsaid at phreaker.net (Nuff Said)
Date: Thu, 29 Apr 2004 00:37:39 +0200
Subject: locale.CODESET / different in python shell and scripts
References: <pan.2004.04.26.23.23.56.718739@phreaker.net>
	<c6mfs1$99j$01$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <pan.2004.04.28.22.37.39.159529@phreaker.net>

On Tue, 27 Apr 2004 22:29:59 +0200, Martin v. L?wis wrote:
> Because, for some reason, locale.setlocale() is called in your
> interactive startup, but not in the normal startup.
> 
> It is uncertain why this happens - setlocale is not normally
> called automatically; not even in interactive mode. Perhaps
> you have created your own startup file?

I use two Python versions on my Linux box (Fedora Core 1): 
the Python 2.2 which came with Fedora and a Python 2.3 which
I compiled myself. (I didn't tinker with the last one; 
Fedora's Python is a (well known) mess.)

Both Python versions give me 'ANSI_X3.4-1968' when I run a script
with 'print locale.nl_langinfo(locale.CODESET)'. 
  When I execute the same command in an interactive Python shell, 
I get the (correct) 'UTF-8'. 

(By 'correct', I mean that the bash command 'locale' gives me
'LANG=en_US.UTF-8, LC_CTYPE="en_US.UTF-8", ...'. This seems to
be correct, because e.g. the 'less ...' command shows files which
are UTF-8 encoded in the correct way; files which are e.g.
'ISO-8859-1' encoded are not shown in the correct way.)


Things are getting even worse:

I write a Python script which uses Unicode strings; now I want
to 'print ...' one of those strings (containing non-ASCII characters;
e.g. German umlauts). 
  With Fedora's Python 2.2 I have to use 'print s.encode('ISO-8859-1') 
or something similar.
  With my self-compiled Python 2.3, I have to use (the expected) 
'print s.encode('UTF-8')' (though it shows me 'ANSI_X3.4-1968' when
using 'print locale.nl_langinfo(locale.CODESET)' in the same file).

???

Any ideas what's going wrong here?

(I tried 'python -S ...'; doesn't make a difference.)



From reverse.ku.oc.issolok at nothypgnal.delrest.co.uk  Wed Apr 28 04:49:00 2004
From: reverse.ku.oc.issolok at nothypgnal.delrest.co.uk (Paul Sweeney)
Date: Wed, 28 Apr 2004 08:49:00 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: sending an object - twisted or what?
References: <c6llh1$1k8$1@sparta.btinternet.com>
	<mailman.45.1083079451.25742.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <c6nr5s$na$1@hercules.btinternet.com>

"Lars Heuer" <python at quixs.com> wrote in message
news:mailman.45.1083079451.25742.python-list at python.org...
> > I wish to send an object (only one class, but many objects)
> > from python running on one computer to python on another.
> > It will be over the internet, so needs to be 'secure'.
>
> > Is twisted the only way to go, or is there something
> > simpler for my app?  The code for twisted is fairly simple (I found
>
> I don't know if it's simpler, but there's PyRO:
> http://pyro.sourceforge.net/
>
I meant to say I had looked at that too, but I just want to operate a queue
of objects sent between systems, so the whole name server/URI approach is
quite a lot of unnecessary overhead.  Thanks for the post though. :-)

Paul




From SeeBelow at SeeBelow.Nut  Tue Apr 27 19:07:16 2004
From: SeeBelow at SeeBelow.Nut (SeeBelow at SeeBelow.Nut)
Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2004 23:07:16 GMT
Subject: Tkinter vs. wxPython?
References: <408E9DCA.EC753FE6@shaw.ca> <hLOdnf0DJ4o7PxPd4p2dnA@comcast.com>
Message-ID: <408EE7A6.321ED53A@shaw.ca>

Doug Holton wrote:
> 
> SeeBelow at SeeBelow.Nut wrote:
> 
> > Do many people think that wxPython should replace Tkinter?  Is this
> > likely to happen?
> >
> > I ask because I have just started learning Tkinter, and I wonder if I
> > should abandon it in favor of wxPython.
> 
> Could you share a little more info, like are you new to GUI programming,
> what platform do you develop on (windows, mac, linux), and what features
> do you need for your application.
> 
> If you this is your first time using a GUI toolkit I'd recommend
> sticking with Tkinter.  It is simpler to use and there is much more and
> better documentation since it has been a standard part of Python for a
> long time.
> 
> But myself I use wxPython because it has more features.

I'm mostly a C programmer, with a little Python experience.  I have only
basic needs for GUI and graphics.  The Tkinter set of widgets seems
adequate for my needs, although one never knows for sure what ones needs
might be.

Portability is important.  My audience is 50/50 linux and Windows
people.  I myself use Win 2000.

Ease of learning is important to me.  I have only a little experience
with GUI and graphics programming.  I keep using the phrase "GUI and
graphics" because I need graphical output from my programs, not just a
GUI to control them.

Mitchell Timin

-- 
"Many are stubborn in pursuit of the path they have chosen, few in
pursuit of the goal." - Friedrich Nietzsche

http://annevolve.sourceforge.net is what I'm into nowadays.
Humans may write to me at this address: zenguy at shaw dot ca


From gnupeaker at yahoo.com  Fri Apr 30 20:38:12 2004
From: gnupeaker at yahoo.com (Eyal Lotem)
Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2004 17:38:12 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Announcing PyInvoke
Message-ID: <20040501003812.46413.qmail@web50701.mail.yahoo.com>

I have not yet seen real transparent RPC for Python,
so I decided to implement one:
http://pybuild.sourceforge.net/pyinvoke.html

I find it really cool, as setting it up is very easy,
and using it requires writing little to none
rpc-related code.

This is not an invitation to "Transparent networking
is just wrong" flames, because there are many cases
where transparent networking is simply the quickest,
simplest and best solution.

Please try it out and give me some feedback! (If you
send it to the list, please CC it to me)

I would also appreciate ideas on easy ways to create
authenticated SSL connections automatically between
hosts in order to run PyInvoke on top of such a
connection to enable security.

Thanks!


	
		
__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! HotJobs  
http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/careermakeover 



From pythongnome at hotmail.com  Tue Apr 20 08:20:43 2004
From: pythongnome at hotmail.com (Lucas Raab)
Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 12:20:43 GMT
Subject: Pygame book
Message-ID: <vA8hc.2788$gH6.118@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net>

I was at the bookstore the other day and I noticed a book that dealt with
making games with Pygame. As I recall the book title was "Game Programming
with Python." I have an interest in making games, so I was wondering if any
of you have this book and if you do, could you please give me a nice
overview and whether I should buy the book or not.

TIA
Lucas




From newsgroups at jhrothjr.com  Thu Apr 15 19:20:01 2004
From: newsgroups at jhrothjr.com (John Roth)
Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2004 19:20:01 -0400
Subject: Goodbye TCL
References: <0LudnSads6NmpuPdRVn-vw@centurytel.net>
	<f82c8ae7.0404151057.67333d4e@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <107u6ef5a2ise19@news.supernews.com>


"Stephen Huntley" <blacksqr at usa.net> wrote in message
news:f82c8ae7.0404151057.67333d4e at posting.google.com...
> Ed:
>
> I think your post is valuable.  Instead of trying to invalidate your
> arguments, I will outline my reasons why I stick to Tcl.  Then we can
> perhaps glimpse how strengths and weaknesses counterbalance.
>
> The main reasons I stick with Tcl are:

What's amusing is that every one of your arguements in favor
of TCL are also arguements in favor of Python. This is, after
all, 2004, not 1994. Languages don't get widespread use
today unless either 1) some mega-mastodon is pushing them,
like Java or C#, or 2) they just work out of the box, and
solve real problems for the people using them.

John Roth

> 1. Rock-solid stability.  I'm too old to spare time wondering if
> frequent crashes in my software are my fault or the underlying
> technology's fault.  Tcl largely removes this consideration from the
> equation.  America Online's web server is written in Tcl.  It is
> highly unlikely I will ever need to scale a product of mine to that
> level, so there's a lot of headroom for me.
>
> I have occasionally looked into new technologies, like Python, PHP,
> Ruby, etc; but I've noticed that if you look beyond the FAQ's deep
> into the developer mailing lists, you'll generally find statements
> like: 'development of the core is going really really well, and within
> the next few releases we actually expect it to be stable!'  Hold me.
>
> I frequently use Tcl to write wrappers for other products to catch and
> compensate for their shortcomings.  This would be pointless if it
> weren't for the fact that Tcl is at least an order of magnitude more
> stable and reliable than any other technology I've tried.
>
> 2. Freedom from bugs.  For years after college I did almost no coding
> because I was sick of the fact that I would have to rewrite literally
> everything I wrote two or three times to find a syntactically correct
> version that didn't hit a deadly bug.  Imagine my surprise when my
> first Tcl scripts Just Worked.  And the docs were accurate and
> complete too, so I didn't have to spend half my time
> reverse-engineering (another new experience).  For this reason alone
> Tcl is almost single-handedly responsible for the fact that I am still
> working in the computer world.
>
> In ten years of Tcl scripting, I think I've encountered three bugs in
> the core.  I found upon reporting that each one was already fixed in
> the latest version.  I just don't bother to upgrade my core very often
> because of 1. and 2.
>
> 3. Platform agnosticism.  Since Tcl was originally designed to be
> embedded it play no favorites in terms of platform features.  It's
> available on a wide variety of platforms and I suspect will be there
> on the platforms of the future in equally reliable forms.  I started
> with computers on Unix as a student, as a professional worked first
> with Macintosh v 7, then on to Windows, and now a bit of everything
> (five *nix versions, four Win*s and handheld devices).  AS/400 was in
> there somewhere.  Tcl has been there every step of the way.  I'm too
> old to relearn my chops every time a new OS fad blows through, and I
> don't want to have to predict winners and losers.  I feel Tcl
> minimizes the likelihood I will have to.
>
> Here at work I suggested we use a free Tcl installer program rather
> than a for-pay Java one.  Management chose the Java option.  Why?
> Because the Java company officially supported all the platforms we
> needed to be on, and management felt they couldn't take the risk of
> going without assurances.  It's turned out that the installer has
> required special handling or patches for every OS (and almost every OS
> version) we've tried it on, resulting in numerous gotchas and
> release-note warnings for our customers.  And "official support" is a
> bulletin board where their engineers' response is always "we're
> working on it."  Meanwhile my build and test scripts run merrily and
> without alteration everywhere.
>
> Alternative technologies tend nakedly to favor *nix, and seem only to
> offer a subset of function on other OS's grudgingly.  Python and
> similar technologies treat platform-specific issues like pathnames and
> line terminators as special cases with their own commands or
> compensating strategies to handle them.  Tcl largely handles them
> tranparently.  It was years before I was even aware of some of these
> issues because Tcl handled them so well.  Python uses ASCII as a
> default string encoding, but recently managed to bolt on a Unicode
> library (same with PHP I think).  I haven't looked into its Shift-JIS
> suppport, which I need for work (and is included with Tcl).
>
> 4. Tk.  Other technologies say 'We don't have a native GUI interface,
> but there's a binding to the Tk library.'  For all intents and
> purposes, Tk is the only game in town for cross-platform GUI
> scripting.  When I'm using Tcl I know I have access to 100% of Tk's
> features and the latest Tk version.  Is that true with other
> languages' bindings?  I don't know, but if I had to bet money I'd say
> no.
>
> Tk follow's Tcl's logic, and it's a lot easier to program Tk
> interfaces when in the Tcl mindset then try to access Tk's features by
> switching gears from another language's mindset.  I don't do GUI
> programming very often, but when I have to, it's nice to know that I
> can do it as a trivial extension of my existing Tcl skills.
>
> Ed, your voice-recognition project looks very interesting, and I look
> forward to using it when it's ready for prime time.  I spend 90% of my
> time in front of a Windows computer (my boss's choice, not mine): how
> does it run on Windows?  How stable is it?  How does Twisted's event
> architecture compare to Tcl's?
>
>
> Steve Huntley




From jepler at unpythonic.net  Wed Apr  7 09:02:54 2004
From: jepler at unpythonic.net (Jeff Epler)
Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2004 08:02:54 -0500
Subject: String comparison problem
In-Reply-To: <BAY8-F98V8YHMOa1EXo00034f74@hotmail.com>
References: <BAY8-F98V8YHMOa1EXo00034f74@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <20040407130254.GD6139@unpythonic.net>

You should use "repr" to see the exact byte sequence contained in the
strings.

If the strings really contain the same sequence of bytes, then they are
equal.  There must be some difference between them that is
non-printable.

>>> s1 = "01b7ebfc27437a90cc421c50df8f9ac5"
>>> s2 = "01b7ebfc27437a90cc421c50df8f9ac5"
>>> s1 == s2
1

But what you'll actually find is that this statement
> 	print string.lower(md5sum(f_md5))
will print a different value the first and second times you execute it.

Jeff



From peter at engcorp.com  Mon Apr 26 13:21:54 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2004 13:21:54 -0400
Subject: Zip with sequences of diffrent length
In-Reply-To: <c6jelh$13e6$1@f1node01.rhrz.uni-bonn.de>
References: <c6jelh$13e6$1@f1node01.rhrz.uni-bonn.de>
Message-ID: <3-qdnWq1k_2v2BDd4p2dnA@powergate.ca>

Nickolay Kolev wrote:

> I want to make tuples of the elements of a list like this.
> 
> l = [1, 2, 3]
> 
> Wanted tuples:
> 
> (1, 2)
> (2, 3)
> (3, None)
> 
> I can get the first two tuples using zip(l, l[1:]). How do I get the 
> last one?

 >>> l = [1, 2, 3]
 >>> zip(l, l[1:]+[None])
[(1, 2), (2, 3), (3, None)]







From rogerb at rogerbinns.com  Thu Apr 22 16:37:01 2004
From: rogerb at rogerbinns.com (Roger Binns)
Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2004 13:37:01 -0700
Subject: Multi-threaded printing and UIErrors in Windows
Message-ID: <10nll1-rt5.ln1@home.rogerbinns.com>

My program has a random smattering of print statements
scattered throughout that are mainly a debugging aid.
They are typically things like this:

    print "entering key mode"

The code is multithreaded, and the printing typically
happens in both the main thread and a worker thread
doing serial port IO.  The problem I am experiencing
when the program is packaged up with py2exe is that
exceptions happen:

  IOError: [Errno 9] Bad file descriptor

This can happen in either thread.  Why is this
happening?  It doesn't happen on Linux or Mac,
and hasn't happened when not using py2exe.

Python 2.3, wxPython 2.4, py2exe 0.5 (and the
previous version).

Roger




From mikalzetTogli at interfree.it  Wed Apr  7 15:49:31 2004
From: mikalzetTogli at interfree.it (TaeKyon)
Date: Wed, 07 Apr 2004 19:49:31 GMT
Subject: recursive file editing
References: <pan.2004.04.03.20.25.28.565809@interfree.it>
	<c4on0d$frb$02$1@news.t-online.com>
	<pan.2004.04.06.11.57.59.82978@interfree.it>
	<c4ua4l$mm1$05$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <pan.2004.04.07.19.49.30.308033@interfree.it>

Il Tue, 06 Apr 2004 15:08:37 +0200, Peter Otten ha scritto:

> I suggest that you stick with with the simpler approach in my later post
> until you have a firm grip of classes. For the task at hand the Path class
> seems overkill, now I'm reconsidering it.

Here is a variation on the theme I came up with this afternoon:

#!/usr/bin/python
import os, sys, re, fileinput

try:
    target_folder = (sys.argv[1])
    original_pattern = (sys.argv[2])
    result_pattern = (sys.argv[3])
except:
    print "Substitutes a string with another in all files of a directory"
    print "		Use: ./MyScript.py directory string other_string"
    sys.exit()
for folders, folder, filelist in os.walk(target_folder):
    for filename in filelist:
        file = os.path.join(folders,filename)
        for line in fileinput.input(file,'inplace=1'):
            line = re.sub(original_pattern,result_pattern,line)
            print line   
#  Commented out because apparently useless, from the documentation I 
#  don't quite understand whether it ought to be here or not
#        fileinput.close()

This works - almost. 
1) It does substitute the pattern, however it seems to
add a newline for each newline present in the original file every time 
it is run (so files get longer and longer), and I don't understand why.
2) The final fileinput.close() seems to be useless; the program works
without, and bug 1) isn't affected.

--  
Michele Alzetta



From eric_brunel at despammed.com  Mon Apr 19 11:30:58 2004
From: eric_brunel at despammed.com (Eric Brunel)
Date: Mon, 19 Apr 2004 17:30:58 +0200
Subject: outline-style sorting algorithm
References: <mailman.755.1082380154.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<4083E8E7.8060503@mxm.dk>
Message-ID: <c60qsn$6hh$1@news-reader5.wanadoo.fr>

Max M wrote:
> jwsacksteder at ramprecision.com wrote:
>  > I have a need to sort a list of elements that represent sections of a
>  > document in dot-separated notation. The built in sort does the wrong 
> thing.
> 
> Not really. You are giving it a list of strings, and it sort those 
> alphabetically. That seems like the right thing to me ;-)
> 
>  > This seems a rather complex problem and I was hoping someone smarter 
> than me
>  > had already worked out the best way to approach this. For example, 
> consider
>  > the following list-
> 
>  >>>>foo
>  >
>  > ['1.0', '1.0.1', '1.1.1', '1.2', '1.9', '1.10', '1.11', '1.20', 
> '1.20.1',
>  > '1.30']
> 
> You need to convert them to another datatype first. Your best bet here 
> would be a list or a tuple, as they can map directly to your data.
> 
> '1.0.1'.split('.') == [1,0,1]
[snip]

Nope:
'1.0.1.split('.') == ['1', '0', '1']

So the int's are still represented as strings and it does not solve the OP's 
problem:

 >>> foo = ['1.0', '1.0.1', '1.1.1', '1.2', '1.9', '1.10', '1.11', '1.20',
'1.20.1', '1.30']
 >>> bar = [x.split('.') for x in foo]
 >>> bar
[['1', '0'], ['1', '0', '1'], ['1', '1', '1'], ['1', '2'], ['1', '9'], ['1', 
'10'], ['1', '11'], ['1', '20'], ['1', '20', '1'], ['1', '30']]
 >>> bar.sort()
 >>> bar
[['1', '0'], ['1', '0', '1'], ['1', '1', '1'], ['1', '10'], ['1', '11'], ['1', 
'2'], ['1', '20'], ['1', '20', '1'], ['1', '30'], ['1', '9']]

And the 1.20.something are still before 1.9

What you need to do is explicitely convert to integers the strings in the list 
resulting from the split. Here is the shortest way to do it

 >>> bar = [map(int, x.split('.')) for x in foo]
 >>> bar
[[1, 0], [1, 0, 1], [1, 1, 1], [1, 2], [1, 9], [1, 10], [1, 11], [1, 20], [1, 
20, 1], [1, 30]]

Now you can sort:

 >>> bar.sort()
 >>> bar
[[1, 0], [1, 0, 1], [1, 1, 1], [1, 2], [1, 9], [1, 10], [1, 11], [1, 20], [1, 
20, 1], [1, 30]]

Hooray! We've got the result we wanted. Now, convert integers back to string and 
re-join everything:

 >>> foo = ['.'.join(map(str, x)) for x in bar]
 >>> foo
['1.0', '1.0.1', '1.1.1', '1.2', '1.9', '1.10', '1.11', '1.20', '1.20.1', '1.30']

That's what we expected...

HTH
-- 
- Eric Brunel <eric (underscore) brunel (at) despammed (dot) com> -
PragmaDev : Real Time Software Development Tools - http://www.pragmadev.com



From mark at prothon.org  Sat Apr  3 16:11:03 2004
From: mark at prothon.org (Mark Hahn)
Date: Sat, 3 Apr 2004 13:11:03 -0800
Subject: "correct" tab/space rule? (prothon)
Message-ID: <HLFbc.148692$cx5.137179@fed1read04>

Ville Vainio came up an idea for one final tweak of the tab/space indent
algorithm we are using in Prothon, and the final result surprised me, in
that it directly addresses the problem of mixed tabs and spaces.  We have
been having flame wars about tabs vs. spaces and I was thinking this was an
opinion kind of thing and it never occured to me to look at it as a simple
bug that needed fixing.  Give me a second of your time to pitch it that way.

When you mix tabs and spaces in Python and you change the tab width in your
editor, the indents don't visually line up any more, even thought it
compiles fine.  This is the bug/problem.  If you just don't allow tabs and
spaces to be mixed in any one block, where you define a block to be a group
of matching indented lines, then this problem cannot occur and the bug
cannot occur.

Our new Prothon rules fix this problem while allowing maximum flexibilty to
use both tabs and spaces, and we've thrown in a new easier continuation
method just for good measure.

Prothon indentation rules:

1) You must use only tabs or only spaces for indents in any one indentation
block. You cannot mix tabs and spaces in a block.  A block is defined as a
group of consecutive indented lines.  Non-indented lines seperate blocks.

2) Each indent level can have any number of characters more than the
previous level, whether you are using tabs or spaces.  If you drop back to
the left to dedent, and your column position does not match any level above,
you will get a lexer error.

3) If you  increase the indentation level above the previous line by even
one character, and that previous line does not end in a colon, then the new
line will be considered a continuation of the previous line.

4) If a line contains an active (not quoted or commented)  (, {, or [
without a matching end character, then the following line is always a
continuation, no matter what that following line contains.

5) There is still support for using the trailing backslash ( \ ) to indicate
that the next line is a continuation.  This may be removed in the future if
everyone agrees to do so.

6) A continuation line is effectively added to the end of the previous line
so any line following a continuation line uses the last non-continuation
line for the "previous line" in all the rules above.




From blacksqr at usa.net  Fri Apr 16 11:31:03 2004
From: blacksqr at usa.net (Stephen Huntley)
Date: 16 Apr 2004 08:31:03 -0700
Subject: Goodbye TCL
References: <0LudnSads6NmpuPdRVn-vw@centurytel.net>
	<f82c8ae7.0404151057.67333d4e@posting.google.com>
	<107u6ef5a2ise19@news.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <f82c8ae7.0404160731.7473b61f@posting.google.com>

"John Roth" <newsgroups at jhrothjr.com> wrote in message news:<107u6ef5a2ise19 at news.supernews.com>...
> "Stephen Huntley" <blacksqr at usa.net> wrote in message
> news:f82c8ae7.0404151057.67333d4e at posting.google.com...
> > Ed:
> >
> > I think your post is valuable.  Instead of trying to invalidate your
> > arguments, I will outline my reasons why I stick to Tcl.  Then we can
> > perhaps glimpse how strengths and weaknesses counterbalance.
> >
> > The main reasons I stick with Tcl are:
> 
> What's amusing is that every one of your arguements in favor
> of TCL are also arguements in favor of Python. This is, after
> all, 2004, not 1994. Languages don't get widespread use
> today unless either 1) some mega-mastodon is pushing them,
> like Java or C#, or 2) they just work out of the box, and
> solve real problems for the people using them.
> 
> John Roth

I'm certain that Python is a lovely language with many uses.  You're
right saying that since 1994 many new technologies have just worked
out of the box.  The gotcha I have encountered is the problems you run
into a year or so down the line, when you want to move to a new
platform, or use an exotic character encoding, or scale up by an order
of magnitude.  This is where Tcl has shined for me.

I would be curious to know what is the biggest-capacity Python network
application in use?  How does it scale in comparison with AOLServer? 
Any ideas?


From rdsteph at earthlink.net  Mon Apr 12 13:32:41 2004
From: rdsteph at earthlink.net (Ron Stephens)
Date: 12 Apr 2004 10:32:41 -0700
Subject: Python is the best and most popular general purpose scripting
	language; the universal scripting language
References: <a5415304.0404101350.271088f2@posting.google.com>
	<slrnc7k50v.1jl.kirk@eyegor.jobsluder.net>
Message-ID: <8e6e8e5d.0404120932.1c10d305@posting.google.com>

Kirk Job-Sluder <kirk at eyegor.jobsluder.net> wrote in message news:<slrnc7k50v.1jl.kirk at eyegor.jobsluder.net>...> A nice Bourne one-liner that does useful work, but which I really don't
> feel is worth doing in python.  The two hours I spent learning awk has
> paid off whenever I need to pretty-print a character-delimited file.  

Kirk Job-Sluder <kirk at eyegor.jobsluder.net> wrote in message news:<slrnc7k50v.1jl.kirk at eyegor.jobsluder.net>...> A nice Bourne one-liner that does useful work, but which I really don't
> feel is worth doing in python.  The two hours I spent learning awk has
> paid off whenever I need to pretty-print a character-delimited file.  

I agree, shell scripts are great. But my main point is not whether or
not to classify Python as a scripting language, or how to define a
scripting language, nor do I mean the "universal solvent" phrase to
mean Python is the only tool for all (or even most ) jobs.

Rather, I mean that Python is perhaps the best tool for writing actual
code, beyond the simplest shell scripts (although Python can be good
for that too) and short of Windows-only GUI forms-based Microsoft
Office add-ins to Access databases (although Python can be used to do
that too.)

In other words, one of Python's greatest strength's is enabling the
efficient writing of actual code that is easy to read and maintain and
to interface effectively with a very wide range of tools and
environments.

Like it or not, but for the foreseeable future, most people and
organizations that want to create and deploy GUI software exclusively
for Windows desktops and using exclusively Windows applications are
going to use Visual Studio .Net. In the same way, most people who want
to create and deploy truly cross platform GUI software may find Java
to be there main tool.

Sure, Python can be used to write and deploy the same kind of programs
on Windows or across all major platforms. But the real strength of
Python even in these cases in the writing of the actual code; that's
where Python's simplicity, power, ease, readability, maintainability
and efficiency really shines. The creation of the GUI's and the actual
deployment can be down the tools like wxPython, PyGtk, PyQt, and there
associated IDE's and tools, and the deployment can be done with
py2exe, McMillan's installer, etc etc, or, by using the platform
specific tools form Microsoft, Apple, and for the various Unices. But,
it would be hard, I think to argue that the use of Python makes the
creation of GUI's and the actual deployment (cross platform or Windows
only) easier and more efficient than the other (currently more
popular) alternatives to Pythonic tools.

After all, for cross platform deployment, it's hard to beat Java .jar
files; and for creation and deployment of Windows-only GUI frontends,
its hard to beat Visual Studio.

But for the actual writing of the code, that's were it can be argued
that Python brings added programmer productivity, efficiencies and
other advantages.

See my point? Or is it as clear as mud now ;-)))

Ron Stephens
www.awaretek.com/weblog.html


From greg at cosc.canterbury.ac.nz  Thu Apr 29 00:41:00 2004
From: greg at cosc.canterbury.ac.nz (Greg Ewing)
Date: Thu, 29 Apr 2004 16:41:00 +1200
Subject: Why we will use obj$func() often
In-Reply-To: <52Ujc.16275$Qy.3111@fed1read04>
References: <d2Uhc.22272$dZ1.1600@fed1read04> <84Uhc.22278$dZ1.5087@fed1read04>
	<mailman.927.1082665370.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<8AWhc.23114$dZ1.11070@fed1read04> <40883BFE.B381518A@alcyone.com>
	<27_hc.23801$dZ1.2716@fed1read04> <40887145.789A2FE8@alcyone.com>
	<7cki80hj976bia36lhf9er97v073o1pqvm@4ax.com>
	<w8dic.28710$dZ1.11206@fed1read04> <ulXiAls/KH1K089yn@the-wire.com>
	<lkfic.29767$dZ1.17301@fed1read04>
	<donn-66132E.15345723042004@nntp3.u.washington.edu>
	<PLhic.30493$dZ1.22063@fed1read04>
	<c6huj3$c3s3f$1@ID-169208.news.uni-berlin.de>
	<u8zjc.7394$Qy.127@fed1read04>
	<c6ni3j$e0vbb$1@ID-169208.news.uni-berlin.de>
	<5vJjc.13116$Qy.1954@fed1read04>
	<donn-FB76CA.11024928042004@nntp3.u.washington.edu>
	<52Ujc.16275$Qy.3111@fed1read04>
Message-ID: <c6q10s$esn2d$1@ID-169208.news.uni-berlin.de>

Mark Hahn wrote:
> It turns out that Greg and I were mistaken.  The &var syntax can easily
> handle unlimited nested scopes and not even slow up my one-pass compiler.

It does incur the expense of a run-time lookup for
intermediate-scoped variables, however.

-- 
Greg Ewing, Computer Science Dept,
University of Canterbury,	
Christchurch, New Zealand
http://www.cosc.canterbury.ac.nz/~greg



From paul at prescod.net  Sun Apr 25 13:36:26 2004
From: paul at prescod.net (Paul Prescod)
Date: Sun, 25 Apr 2004 10:36:26 -0700
Subject: List operator overloading snag
In-Reply-To: <8TCdnQn1OKieaRbdRWPC-w@speakeasy.net>
References: <8TCdnQn1OKieaRbdRWPC-w@speakeasy.net>
Message-ID: <408BF71A.9070500@prescod.net>

Steven Brent wrote:

>...
> The problem is that I can't seem to get my wrapped lists to use the
> overloaded versions of the operators without calling the customize
> instance method directly, as shown below:
> 
>>>>import setwrapper; from setwrapper import *
> 
> 
>>>>S1 = Set(['s','p','a','m'])
>>>>S2 = Set(['s','c','a','t'])
> 
> 
>>>>print S1 or S2

Try this:

 >>> print S1 | S2

  Paul Prescod





From mark at prothon.org  Tue Apr 20 02:10:22 2004
From: mark at prothon.org (Mark Hahn)
Date: Mon, 19 Apr 2004 23:10:22 -0700
Subject: CamelCase versus wide_names (Prothon)
References: <UHxfc.9323$dZ1.3740@fed1read04>
	<6ee58e07.0404192141.2229efd6@posting.google.com>
	<c62e05$6oraj$1@ID-99293.news.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <i93hc.13733$dZ1.8818@fed1read04>

"William Park" <opengeometry at yahoo.ca> wrote ...

Someone else already mentioned this
> > problem:
> >
> >    smtp_message <-> SMTPMessage <-> SmtpMessage

If you consider the capital letter as just a replacement for the underbar,
then the answer is definitely smtpMessage.  I don't see any problem.





From alf at calvin.fayauffre.org  Thu Apr 15 04:01:33 2004
From: alf at calvin.fayauffre.org (Alexandre Fayolle)
Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2004 08:01:33 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Aspect Programming Module
References: <84fc4588.0404140106.3fa0c55@posting.google.com>
	<slrnc7q1ss.1aa.alf@largo.fayauffre.org>
	<cb035744.0404141130.170f51c4@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <slrnc7sgat.vp.alf@largo.fayauffre.org>

Will Stuyvesant feels like trolling:
>> [Alexandre Fayolle, being a good employee]

+1 point for ad hominem attack. 

>> You may want to try the logilab.aspects package, available at
>> http://www.logilab.org/projects/aspects/
>
> I am afraid you are serious.

I am. Deadly serious. I even took part in the implementation of the 
module. And I'll tell you a secret. Even though logilab.aspect was more
a proof of concept implementation, we actually use it, especially the
logging and contract aspects, in production code. 

> AOP is *not needed* for Python programmers.  Plain and simple.

Oh. And we're all supposed to take your word for it then. Such useless
comments are not needed by the Python community. Plain and simple. 

> Don't understand?  Try this:

+1 point for implying I'm an idiot. 

> "AOP is a contrived way to get around the limitations of a statically
> typed language."

Do you have anything to offer besides blunt dogmatic assertions? Could
you please quote your sources, or provide some supportive arguments. 

The goal of AOP is "separating crosscutting concerns". This has nothing
to do with static/dynamic typing. It is a design problem. I think you
should read a bit on the topic before making a fool of yourself. Here
are a few links, for your education:

The original idea: http://www.parc.xerox.com/csl/groups/sda/publications/papers/Kiczales-ECOOP97/for-web.pdf
Aspect home page: http://www.aosd.net
aspects links: http://www.volantec.biz/aspect.htm
AspectJ tutorial: http://www.eclipse.org/aspectj/
Crtitical analysis: http://citeseer.nj.nec.com/highley99aspect.html

Other projects provide AOP facilities for Python:
Pythius: http://pythius.sourceforge.net/
PEAK: http://peak.telecommunity.com/Articles/WhatisPEAK.html

> Put that on the logilab website.  And hire somebody to repair the
> broken English over there, it looks really, um...oh well I am not a
> native English speaker myself either.

Thank you for this very constructive remark. I hate to admit it, but
this is probably the most sensible thing you wrote in your post, though 
the Netiquette explicitely frowns on such remarks. 

-- 
Alexandre Fayolle                              LOGILAB, Paris (France)
http://www.logilab.com   http://www.logilab.fr  http://www.logilab.org


From shalabh at cafepy.com  Thu Apr 15 20:25:00 2004
From: shalabh at cafepy.com (Shalabh Chaturvedi)
Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2004 17:25:00 -0700
Subject: tutorials
In-Reply-To: <aada3d1a5a6b298d1ae607fceea91804@news.thenewsgroups.com>
References: <aada3d1a5a6b298d1ae607fceea91804@news.thenewsgroups.com>
Message-ID: <c5n8vf$s8$1@sea.gmane.org>

Deefex wrote:
> hey what's up, i've been looking for online tutorials to learn python on
> windows but i can't find anything. does anyone know a good site with
> good beginner's python information? thank you very much.

The Python site will tell you how to go about it:
http://www.python.org/topics/learn/

> --
> Deefex

--
Shalabh




From jacek.generowicz at cern.ch  Wed Apr  7 07:16:14 2004
From: jacek.generowicz at cern.ch (Jacek Generowicz)
Date: 07 Apr 2004 13:16:14 +0200
Subject: OFF-TOPIC:: Why Lisp is not my favorite programming language
References: <165b3efa.0403030443.4d591f04@posting.google.com>
	<40460dd5$0$5916$7a628cd7@news.club-internet.fr>
	<d771b842.0403040735.3b5200ae@posting.google.com>
	<e87fc4b0.0403221114.254b7ee5@posting.google.com>
	<d771b842.0404061258.655b8e56@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <tyfy8p8vy0x.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>

nish20 at netzero.net (Mike Nishizawa) writes:

> If it beats LISP at it's own game which is, list processing,

> an especially good application for a LISt Processing language.

[lots more uninformed garbage elided]

Please get a clue about what Lisp is in the 21st century (hell, even
what it was in the last 2 decades of the 20th century), before posting
any more of your drivel.

For example, you could look at http://franz.com/success/ for a little
insight into what is being done (mereyly by processing lists and
parsing files, according to your view of the world) in Lisp today.


From eppstein at ics.uci.edu  Thu Apr  8 03:20:20 2004
From: eppstein at ics.uci.edu (David Eppstein)
Date: Thu, 08 Apr 2004 00:20:20 -0700
Subject: print u"\u0432": why is this so hard? UnciodeEncodeError
References: <cpa4qrvb529.fsf@cabernet.nelson.monkey.org>
	<c52lu9$j8c$03$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <eppstein-55126D.00202008042004@news.service.uci.edu>

In article <c52lu9$j8c$03$1 at news.t-online.com>,
 "Martin v. Lowis" <martin at v.loewis.de> wrote:

> > That seems to work reasonably well in Python 2.3 (but not 2.2!). But
> > then for some obscure reason if I redirect stdout in my shell it fails.
> >   $ LANG=en_US.UTF-8 python2.3 -c 'print u"\u0432"' > /dev/null
> > 
> > Why is that?
> 
> Python 2.3 discovers the encoding of your terminal, and will display
> Unicode characters if the terminal supports them. Python 2.2 did not do
> that, and the new feature is mainly useful in interactive mode.

Py2.3 sure doesn't discover the encoding of my terminal automatically:

hyperbolic ~: python
Python 2.3 (#1, Sep 13 2003, 00:49:11) 
[GCC 3.3 20030304 (Apple Computer, Inc. build 1495)] on darwin
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> print u"\u0432".encode('utf8')
2
>>> print u"\u0432"
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
UnicodeEncodeError: 'ascii' codec can't encode character '\u432' in 
position 0: ordinal not in range(128)

(that 2 was something else looking like an angular capital B before I 
copied and pasted it into my newsreader...and yes, utf8 is the correct 
encoding.)

-- 
David Eppstein                      http://www.ics.uci.edu/~eppstein/
Univ. of California, Irvine, School of Information & Computer Science


From daniel.dittmar at sap.com  Fri Apr 16 11:22:08 2004
From: daniel.dittmar at sap.com (Daniel Dittmar)
Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2004 17:22:08 +0200
Subject: AOP use cases
References: <84fc4588.0404140106.3fa0c55@posting.google.com>
	<slrnc7q1ss.1aa.alf@largo.fayauffre.org>
	<cb035744.0404141130.170f51c4@posting.google.com>
	<slrnc7sgat.vp.alf@largo.fayauffre.org>
	<cb035744.0404160442.2f0b1661@posting.google.com>
	<0pydnSB4WYuieuLdRVn-hQ@powergate.ca>
Message-ID: <c5otn0$44o$1@news1.wdf.sap-ag.de>

Peter Hansen wrote:
>  From direct personal experience, could some AOP folks please
> point out some compelling use cases so that the doubting
> Thomases (and Wills, and Peters) can better understand and
> accept the idea of AOP as being more than just a few fringe
> cases?

Not from personal experience, but these have been mentioned:
- multithreading: create class A' like class A, but with specific methods
synchronized
- persistence
- transactions: pass a transaction context through a call hierarchy spanning
several objects and let the transaction fail if certain methods fail

It may very well be that these can be implemented in current Python, but
this only means that Python already has good support for AOP.

Daniel




From vald at dead.art.pl  Wed Apr 21 14:56:25 2004
From: vald at dead.art.pl (KN)
Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2004 20:56:25 +0200
Subject: inheritance and private attributes 
Message-ID: <20040421185625.GA26996@hell.art.pl>


I've run into such problem:

I have something like this:

class A(object):
	def __init__(self):
		self.__value = None

class B(A):
	def test(self):
		if self.__value:
			print "Ok."
		else:
			print "Empty."

>>> b = B()
>>> b.test()
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
  File "<stdin>", line 3, in test
AttributeError: 'B' object has no attribute '_B__value'

Why I have no access to private attribute from a class that
inherits other class? I just want to have access to the same
private variables but also to extend its functionality by
adding a method that operates on those private attributes and
I'm unable to do so. 

Is this normal behaviour? What should I do if I want to 
override method and use private attribute, or just add
some other method which changes this attribute?

/K



From hemanth_sethuram at yahoo.com  Fri Apr 16 04:49:43 2004
From: hemanth_sethuram at yahoo.com (Hemanth P.S.)
Date: 16 Apr 2004 01:49:43 -0700
Subject: Best IDE?
References: <c5bg1k$25vq$1@news.wplus.net> <c5c138$i91$1@news.service.uci.edu>
Message-ID: <9be5e130.0404160049.257ce8e1@posting.google.com>

If you are looking for an IDE only for Python development, take a look
at SPE.(http://spe.pycs.net). It looks quite cool with PyCrust
integrated.
Here is the blurb from the site:
"""
Spe is a python IDE with wxGlade GUI designer, auto-indentation, auto
completion, call tips, syntax coloring, syntax highlighting, class
explorer, source index, auto todo list, sticky notes, integrated
pycrust shell, python file browser, recent file browser, drag&drop,
context help, ... Special is its blender support with a blender 3d
object browser and its ability to run interactively inside blender.
Spe is extensible with boa.
"""

--Hemanth

Josiah Carlson <jcarlson at uci.edu> wrote in message news:<c5c138$i91$1 at news.service.uci.edu>...
> > This has prolly been asked 100 times - so please refrain from flaming if you can...
> > 
> > What's the best MSwindows editor for python?  I'm currently using PythonWin (ActiveState) at the moment, its a bit
> > buggy - but not too bad. I mean, its got autocomplete & tips & help & autoindentaion (not always good tho).
> > 
> > Thing is, I'm sure there is something better. Is there?
> 
> Many people stick with the standard Python-included Idle.
> 
> Others use their favored *nix editor on Windows (usually Emacs or VI(M))
> 
> Some have found they love SciTE.
> 
> If you could get Eric3 running on Windows, it'd probably be /very/ nice.
> 
> The editor component of Boa Constructor is pretty good (haven't used it 
> in a while), but is a bit sluggish.
> 
> SPE (Stani's Python Editor) is also pretty good, though can be slow at 
> times, and uses MDI, which people usually love or hate.
> 
> I use PyPE, find it to be a satisfactory replacement for Idle, and is 
> quite fast.  I wrote it, which is why I place it at the bottom.
> 
> 
> There are many other general text editors with some sort of Python 
> support, but I don't use any of them, so I'll not talk about them.
> 
>   - Josiah


From imbosol at aerojockey.com  Thu Apr  8 15:10:35 2004
From: imbosol at aerojockey.com (Carl Banks)
Date: 8 Apr 2004 12:10:35 -0700
Subject: getattr() in default namespace.
References: <fa156589.0404080247.6557408e@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <60dfb6f6.0404081110.5218466b@posting.google.com>

python at simon.vc (SimonVC) wrote in message news:<fa156589.0404080247.6557408e at posting.google.com>...
> Hi group, long time reader first time poster (ive always wanted to say
> that).
> 
> How do you use getattr() to get a refernce to a function defined in
> the default namespace..

It's not really possible to do this in general.  I know of no way, for
example, to access the current namespace with getattr inside a class
definition.

However, I'm assuming you're taking about a module's namespace (i.e.,
a so-called global namespace) and not a class or function namespace. 
You can do this very easily with "namespace = __import__(__name__)". 
It even works at top level.


 Python 2.3.2 (#2, Dec 17 2003, 13:21:01) [C] on hp-ux11
 Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more
information.
 >>> a = 1
 >>> namespace = __import__(__name__)
 >>> getattr(namespace,'a')
 1



-- 
CARL BANKS


From anand at easi.soft.net  Thu Apr 22 04:56:48 2004
From: anand at easi.soft.net (Anand K Rayudu)
Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2004 14:26:48 +0530
Subject: COM & Python
References: <mailman.752.1082375155.20120.python-list@python.org>	<l4CdnSThFfKwRB7dRVn-gw@comcast.com>	<mailman.900.1082615617.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<c67tir$smf$2@ctb-nnrp2.saix.net>
Message-ID: <408788D0.3090002@easi.soft.net>

Dear David,

Thanks a lot for the link, Actually that is same from the book.
 I am trying to provide a "Rapid Application Development Environment" 
for  the application I am developing through python.
The reason  I Want to stick on to pythonwin is , it comes as a default 
with python extension for windows.
Also that my application is based on MFC, it looks like pythonwin is a 
natural fit for me.
I can get same look & feel as  the other dialog boxes.
My  developers have good experience on MFC.

I will try out wxPython also & see.
For me it  looks like pythonwin is a preferred option.
Thanks again,
Anand





David Fraser wrote:

> What about 
> http://www.onlamp.com/pub/a/python/excerpts/chpt20/pythonwin.html
> (from that book)?
> Or have you tried wxPython (not COM but great)?
>
> David
>
> Anand K Rayudu wrote:
>
>> Hi Larry,
>>
>> Thanks for the suggestion, I have gone through the book, but 
>> unfortunately nothing much is discussed about this topic.
>> Being new to MFC i am finding it difficult to get started.
>> I want to just create a dialog box, with my own controls and get the 
>> python call backs for them.
>>  can some one please share some example source code or any experience 
>> regarding this.
>> Any help will be a great start point for me.
>>
>> Regards,
>> Anand
>>
>>
>> Larry Bates wrote:
>>
>>> Get a copy of
>>> Python Programming on Win32 By Mark Hammond, Andy Robinson
>>>
>>> This is the best starting point for you.
>>>
>>> Larry Bates
>>> Syscon, Inc.
>>>
>>> "Anand K Rayudu" <anand at easi.soft.net> wrote in message
>>> news:mailman.752.1082375155.20120.python-list at python.org...
>>>  
>>>
>>>> Hi all,
>>>>
>>>> I want to use python with COM extension. I am successful using 
>>>> python as
>>>> client.
>>>> I could interact to my application through COM interfaces from python.
>>>>
>>>> I also want to use the win32ui layer, which wrapped all MFC user
>>>> interface functionality.
>>>> I am just wondering if some on can guide me with some documentation on
>>>> using them.
>>>> I want to know how the call backs are handled in particular.
>>>> Any sample code will be a great start for me.
>>>> If this is possible I can create any dialog boxes with any controls 
>>>> from
>>>> python itself!! :-)
>>>> And take advantage of MFC's View , scroll view and so on. Just 
>>>> exciting!!
>>>>
>>>> Thanks in advance,
>>>> Anand
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>   
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>  
>>>
>>





From wilkSPAM at OUTflibuste.net  Mon Apr 19 03:43:50 2004
From: wilkSPAM at OUTflibuste.net (Wilk)
Date: Mon, 19 Apr 2004 09:43:50 +0200
Subject: Pygame
References: <c5jdv2$s4$1@orkan.itea.ntnu.no>
	<xZydnfgqeaiK3ODdRVn-tw@powergate.ca>
	<c5jgvh$2m5$1@orkan.itea.ntnu.no>
	<mailman.620.1081958099.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<gandreas-33F0F9.12165314042004@news.mpls.visi.com>
	<c5jt79$8m6$1@orkan.itea.ntnu.no> <z4GdnXzhXbzZGuDdRVn-vg@powergate.ca>
	<pan.2004.04.18.22.02.19.625997@stud.ntnu.no>
	<Xns94D0B00218E1JanC@213.119.4.35>
	<pan.2004.04.18.23.31.45.70115@stud.ntnu.no>
Message-ID: <87wu4c76q1.fsf@blakie.riol>

Alexander R?dseth <alexanro at stud.ntnu.no> writes:

> Thanks for the link and the thought.
> Enthought is probably an interesting project.
>
> However, I just want to know why fullscreen graphics
> is not included in Python by default.

For example if you whant python on a server you don't need any graphical
tools. And so you don't whant a lot of dependency (libsdl...)

Also when a module go in the core of python it will have to follow the
release of python. And so will be freezed for long time.

-- 
Wilk - http://flibuste.net


From __peter__ at web.de  Thu Apr  1 02:08:52 2004
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Thu, 01 Apr 2004 09:08:52 +0200
Subject: Using bound variables in Tkinter events
References: <4067a227$0$16577$5a62ac22@freenews.iinet.net.au>
	<c4en2v$uvm$07$1@news.t-online.com>
	<406b7c51$0$16594$5a62ac22@freenews.iinet.net.au>
Message-ID: <c4gf64$3df$04$1@news.t-online.com>

Derek Fountain wrote:

>> import Tkinter as tk
>> root = tk.Tk()
>> 
>> def check(action):
>>     print {"1":"inserting", "0": "deleting"}.get(action, "should never
>> happen")
>>     return True
>> checkId = root.register(check)
>> 
>> entry = tk.Entry(root, validate="key", validatecommand=checkId + " %d")
>> entry.pack()
>> root.mainloop()
>> 
>> The above was found by trial and error, so no warranties :-)
> 
> Awesome, thank you. I don't understand what's going on though. Can you
> explain a bit? I don't understand the mechanism which is expanding the %d.
> Is there some magic in the tk.Entry constructor which does it, or is that
> root.register() doing something clever?

register() wraps a python function into a tcl function and returns the new
tcl function's name (can they start with a number?). If you provide a
string instead of a python function reference as a callback for (e. g.)
validatecommand, it is passed unaltered to tcl. 
That's all there is to it - at least so my theory goes.

Peter



From oren-py-l at hishome.net  Fri Apr 23 04:02:21 2004
From: oren-py-l at hishome.net (Oren Tirosh)
Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2004 04:02:21 -0400
Subject: Proper Way of checking for a collections class
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.56.0404221321160.26411@instinct.bears.org>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.56.0404221321160.26411@instinct.bears.org>
Message-ID: <20040423080221.GA89638@hishome.net>

On Thu, Apr 22, 2004 at 01:23:00PM -0400, Gary Coulbourne wrote:
> Howdy,
> 
> I've been trying to find a good idiom for testing if the input to a
> function is one of the collections classes... the best I could do is this:
> 
> if hasattr(thing_to_test, '__iter__'):
>     ...
> 
> Is this right?  Or, is there a better way besides a cascade of type()
> tests?

Search for "look before you leap" (LBYL) in this newsgroup and you will
find lots of discussions about the issue. The recommended style is not to
LBYL - just try to do whatever you want to do with an object and catch
any resulting exceptions.

  Oren



From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Tue Apr 20 21:17:22 2004
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 20 Apr 2004 21:17:22 -0400
Subject: File access and threads
References: <4084b3eb@newsflash.abo.fi>
Message-ID: <c64i32$e02$1@panix3.panix.com>

In article <4084b3eb at newsflash.abo.fi>,
=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Petter_Holmstr=F6m?=  <peholmst at abo.fi> wrote:
>
>I have a problem with file access which I believe is caused by a 
>thread-problem. I first noticed it while trying to get PSP/Mod_Python to 
>work in the shape of an exception claiming that there are no usable 
>temporary directories.
>
>The second time I noticed it was when I was trying to dump an object to 
>a file using pickle, and I got the "Bad file descriptor" error all the 
>time, even though the file was created in the file system.

Could you at least post a full traceback?
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

"I used to have a .sig but I found it impossible to please everyone..."  --SFJ


From daniel.dittmar at sap.com  Mon Apr 19 11:21:13 2004
From: daniel.dittmar at sap.com (Daniel Dittmar)
Date: Mon, 19 Apr 2004 17:21:13 +0200
Subject: AOP use cases
References: <84fc4588.0404140106.3fa0c55@posting.google.com>
	<slrnc7q1ss.1aa.alf@largo.fayauffre.org>
	<cb035744.0404141130.170f51c4@posting.google.com>
	<slrnc7sgat.vp.alf@largo.fayauffre.org>
	<cb035744.0404160442.2f0b1661@posting.google.com>
	<0pydnSB4WYuieuLdRVn-hQ@powergate.ca>
	<1082n594lndh27f@news.supernews.com> <87pta6qnw4.fsf@pobox.com>
	<1083nja30c9s2a4@news.supernews.com>
	<c5ul9s$rpf$1@news.eusc.inter.net>
	<1087i9rgum1g2cb@news.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <c60qpa$bhr$1@news1.wdf.sap-ag.de>

John Roth wrote:
> "Daniel Dittmar" <daniel at dittmar.net> wrote in message
>> AOP grew out of the observation that an evergrowing percentage of the
>> code of the average method is taken over by parts that are not
>> related to the main purpose of the method, but by logging,
>> sychronization, transaction handling and other stuff.
>
> Bad design is bad design. Having methods with more
> than one responsibility is poor cohesion and high coupling.
> Spending a bit of time thinking about how to encapsulate
> this type of crud will pay big dividends. Unfortunately, it
> won't get academic publication credits.

So if you want a feature (= public method) that supports logging +
synchronization + transaction handling + 'the main feature', you'll write
four methods, each one doing it's own and then calling the next layer. This
is certainly doable, but if you do this to several methods in several
classes, you'll be probably asking yourself if there isn't a better way. AOP
tries to be such a way.

> Duplicated code is duplicated code, and should be ruthlessly
> eliminated wherever found. It doesn't matter whether it's
> generated by some tool or inserted by the developer.

It depends on your programming language if every kind of duplication can be
factored out. Assume that you want a variant of a class where several
methods are synchronized. The code for the methods in the new class will
always look like

lock.acquire ()
call_original_method (args)
lock.release ()

I do not see how the duplication in the structure can be factored out in
languages like Java or C++. In Python, I could do the following

class SynchronizedCall:
    def __init__ (self, lock, method):
        self.lock = lock
        self.method = method

    def __call__ (self, *args, **keywargs):
        self.lock.acquire ()
        try:
            self.method (*args, *keywargs)
        finally:
            self.lock.release ()

obj.append = SynchronizedCall (obj.lock, obj.append)
# the following calls to obj.append () will be synchronized

>> And the 'we do this through refactoring' argument ends where you use
>> external libraries unless you want to fork them.
>
> Now you're contradicting yourself. First you say that it's not
> about patching to get around stupid libraries, now you say it
> is about patching to get around stupid libraries.

It's not *only* about patching existing libraries, it's a different way to
structure the code. In addition, it has the potential advantage that you can
adapt existing libraries without having to change them.

Daniel





From michalw at trylogia.pl  Fri Apr 16 04:31:39 2004
From: michalw at trylogia.pl (Jacek Cz)
Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2004 10:31:39 +0200
Subject: Embeded python without filesystem
Message-ID: <c5o5em$bq$1@taurus.webcorp.pl>

Do you have some tips about making Python small (minimal list of 
modules) and isolated from filesystem. I have an idea

#define Py_WITHOUT_FILES
This switch should disable some function/modules from modules sys, 
fileobject, but also import from file, path resolving etd.


From pit.grinja at gmx.de  Tue Apr 20 02:59:26 2004
From: pit.grinja at gmx.de (Piet)
Date: 19 Apr 2004 23:59:26 -0700
Subject: Book "Programming on Win32" still useful?
Message-ID: <39cbe663.0404192259.3e105972@posting.google.com>

Hi all,
I started programming (or hacking) python some time ago. Since python
offers a lot of Win32 specific extensions and since my OS will
probably stay Win2k for the next time, I would like to know the
possibilities of Win32 programming with python a little better. In
this context I stumbled over the book mentioned in the title, which
really looks like what I?ve been looking for, but I am a little afraid
because it was published 4 years ago and covers only python 1.52. Both
Python and the Win32 interface have been continuously developped, and
I don?t know whether the things I can learn from this book are still
useful today. Can somebody give me some advice whether this book is
still a good buy? I think it will surely be enough to get the basics,
but what if I want more?
Best regards
Peter


From wweston at att.net  Wed Apr  7 11:42:30 2004
From: wweston at att.net (wes weston)
Date: Wed, 07 Apr 2004 15:42:30 GMT
Subject: String comparison problem
In-Reply-To: <mailman.414.1081339564.20120.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.414.1081339564.20120.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <GjVcc.31016$vo5.984291@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>

Senthoorkumaran Punniamoorthy wrote:
> I am printing these information.
> 
>     print string.lower(info_res[2])
>     print string.lower(md5sum(f_md5))
>     print len(string.lower(info_res[2]))
>     print len(string.lower(md5sum(f_md5)))
>     print str(string.lower(md5sum(f_md5)) == string.lower(info_res[2]))
> 
> and the output are
> 
> 01b7ebfc27437a90cc421c50df8f9ac5
> 01b7ebfc27437a90cc421c50df8f9ac5
> 32
> 32
> False
> 
> I was wondering why the last print statement is returning false when two 
> strings are identical?
> 
> Senthoor
> 
> _________________________________________________________________
> Tired of spam? Get advanced junk mail protection with MSN 8. 
> http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail
> import urllib2
> import sre
> import string
> import sys
> import md5
> import socket
> import logging
> import getopt
> import os
> from property import property
> 
> md5_bufsize=8096
> bufsize=8096
> '''
> Change History
> --------------
> 1.01g:
> i.  file close from file_writer() removed so that caller can close the file
> ii. exception handling introduced for mail sending to handle missing 
> SMTP config
> iii.file_Dled() method is replaced
> iv. The program doesn't exit if it can't find the logfile anymore. It 
> just downloads again.
> v.  small bug fixes
> vi. grab_info was made little less complicated by removing the 
> compilation of regex
> 
> 1.01h:
> i. If the MD5 check sum doesn't match, trying n number of times
> '''
> version="1.01h"
> 
> # MD5 checksum program taken from python_home/tools/scripts/md5sum.py
> # That was a stand alone script with many options
> # Just took the function which did the checksumming, and reduced it.
> 
> def md5sum(fp):
>     m = md5.new()
>     try:
>         while 1:
>             data = fp.read(md5_bufsize)
>             if not data:
>                 break
>             m.update(data)
>     except IOError, msg:
>         log.error('I/O error: '+ str(msg))
>         log.error('System Abort')
>         sys.exit(1)
> 
>     return m.hexdigest()
> 
> '''Reads the file from fp_in and writes it to fp_out. fp_in normally is 
> the file being
> downloaded and fp_out is the file being written to the local disk'''
> def file_writer(fp_in, fp_out):
>     try:
>         log.info('File Downloading in Progress.',)
>         while 1:
>             data = fp_in.read(bufsize)
>             if not data:
>                 break
>             fp_out.write(data)
>             fp_out.flush()
>         #fp_out.write('senthoor')
>         #fp_out.flush()
>     except IOError, msg:
>         log.error('Error resolving address: '+ str(msg))
>         log.error('System Abort')
>         sys.exit(1)
>     except socket.error, msg:
>         log.error('Soket error: '+ str(msg))
>         log.error('System Abort')
>         sys.exit(1)
> 
> def send_mail(mailserver,from_addr, to_addr, file_name):
>     msg = 'Greetings all, \n The lastest virus definition file' + 
> file_name + ' has been down loaded'
>     server = smtplib.SMTP(mailserver)
>     server.set_debuglevel(1)
>     server.sendmail(from_addr, to_addr, msg)
>     server.quit()
> 
> '''Takes a list of regular expressions and a Source(String) and searchs 
> source for
> match and returns a list with all the matches'''
> def grab_info(listRegEx,source):
>     #this needs improvement. The compilation is unnecessary and will be 
> removed
>     return map(lambda x:x.group(1),map(lambda x: sre.search(x, 
> source),listRegEx))
> 
> def show_usage():
>     print 'under construnction'
> 
> '''Processes the command line argument'''
> def process_args(a):
>     try:
>         args = getopt.getopt(a[1:],'dv')
>         for x in args[0]:
>             if x[0] == '-d':
>                 log.setLevel(logging.DEBUG)
>             if x[0] == '-v':
>                 print 'theRetriever '+ version +', MotleyPythons'
>                 sys.exit(0)
>     except getopt.GetoptError,msg:
>         show_usage()
>         sys.exit(1)
> 
> '''Checks the log file whether the file name exsits. If the file name
> exsits then no need to download the file since its been already 
> downloaded'''
> def file_Dled(file,fileName):
>     if os.path.exists(file):
>         return sre.search(fileName,open(file).read())
> 
> '''When the file is downloaded and written to the local disk the
> log file updated with the file name'''
> def file_DlOK(file,fileName):
>     exc = 0
>     try:
>         fp = open(file,'a')
>         fp.write(fileName + '\n')
>         fp.close
>     except IOError,msg:
>         log.error('I/O error: '+ str(msg))
>         log.error('System Abort')
>         sys.exit(1)
> 
> #Logging Initialised
> logging.basicConfig()
> log = logging.getLogger('Retriever')
> log.setLevel(logging.INFO)
> process_args(sys.argv)
> 
> 
> # Get information from config file
> config = property('config.cfg')
> log.debug('Config Loaded')
> dllog=config.get_safe('LOCATION','')+'dledfile.lst'
> no_of_trys = 0
> 
> #this is being introduced so that file be downloaded if the it was
> #not download failed and we are going to have a time testing this:-)
> md5_error=1 #at the begining no file so md5_error is true:-)
> log.debug('Retries :' + str(config.get_safe('RETRIES',0)))
> while md5_error and (no_of_trys<=int(config.get_safe('RETRIES',0))):
>     no_of_trys +=1
> 
>     #until its proven md5 mismatch exit we assume it doesn't
>     #this helps us only to repeat downloaing in the case of mismatch
>     #and if the downloading stops for other reasons
>     md5_error = 0
>     try:
>         f1 = urllib2.urlopen(config.get('URL'))
>         log.debug(config.get('URL') + 'has been read')
>     except urllib2.URLError, msg:
>         log.error('Error Reading ' + config.get('URL') + '\n' + str(msg))
>         log.error('System Abort')
>         sys.exit(1)
>     htmlsource = f1.read()
>     f1.close()
> 
>     info_regex = 
> ['href="(.*2\d{7}-\d{3}-i32.exe)"','href=".*(2\d{7}-\d{3}-i32.exe)"','MD5</a>:\s(.*)\s<a'] 
> 
>     info_res = grab_info(info_regex,htmlsource)
>     log.debug('retrieved info \n' + str(info_res))
>     # Exit if file already loaded
>     if file_Dled(dllog,info_res[1]):
>         log.info('File already downloaded. Process Stopping',)
>         sys.exit(0)
> 
>     #reading and writing to a local file
>     virusdeflocal=open(config.get_safe('LOCATION','')+info_res[1],'wb')
>     authinfo = urllib2.Request(config.get('URL'))
>     virusdefserver = 
> urllib2.urlopen('http://'+authinfo.get_host()+info_res[0])
>     file_writer(virusdefserver,virusdeflocal)
>     virusdeflocal.close()
>     virusdefserver.close()
> 
>     f_md5=open(config.get_safe('LOCATION','')+info_res[1],'rb')
>     if string.lower(md5sum(f_md5)) == string.lower(info_res[2]):
>         log.debug("Yipee !!!, it works!!")
>         # Have to copy the file to the common share
>         # Must have location in config file
> 
>         # Put entry in logfile
>         file_DlOK(dllog,info_res[1])
>         try:
>             
> send_mail(config.get('SMTP'),config.get('FROM_ADDR'),config.get('TO_ADDR'),filename) 
> 
>         except KeyError, msg:
>             log.error('Mail not sent: ' + str(msg))
> 
>     else:
>         log.debug("Bummer")
>         md5_error=1


Senthoorkumaran Punniamoorthy,

 >>> s1='01b7ebfc27437a90cc421c50df8f9ac5'
 >>> s2=s1
 >>> import string
 >>> print str(string.lower(s1))==string.lower(s2)
True

????????????????????????/
wes



From user_77 at hotmail.com  Mon Apr 19 12:05:47 2004
From: user_77 at hotmail.com (Nobody)
Date: Mon, 19 Apr 2004 16:05:47 GMT
Subject: Threats to the: Daily Python URL!
References: <2ae25c6b.0404182250.4c5bc870@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <vNSgc.497803$Po1.249255@twister.tampabay.rr.com>


"Paddy McCarthy" <paddy3118 at netscape.net> wrote in message
news:2ae25c6b.0404182250.4c5bc870 at posting.google.com...
> I sent the following this morning:
>
>
>
> -------- Original Message --------
> Subject: Threats to the: Daily Python URL!
> Date: Mon, 19 Apr 2004 07:50:04 +0100
> From: Donald 'Paddy' McCarthy <paddy3118 at netscape.net>
> To: daily at pythonware.com
>
>
> Hi,
> I read your 'Administrative note'  at http://www.pythonware.com/daily/
today
>
> Please don't stop the excellent work that you do.
> I don't know what threats and insults you suffered but I would like to
> ensure you that I for one read the column and value it.
>
> Thanks,  Paddy.
>



The people who would do that (threats and insults) should have their jobs
offshored.







From dkuhlman at rexx.com  Fri Apr 23 12:13:00 2004
From: dkuhlman at rexx.com (Dave Kuhlman)
Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2004 09:13:00 -0700
Subject: Setting variable values from dictionary
References: <Gmaic.35867$Yf6.11336@fed1read07>
Message-ID: <c6bfa5$9q128$1@ID-139865.news.uni-berlin.de>

Sean Berry wrote:

> If I have a dictionary like the following:
> 
> {'category' : 2, 'shape', 4}
> 
> How can I use this to make
> category = 2 and
> shape = 4.
> 
> I want to be able to do this regardless of the dict values type. 
> So:
> 
> {'cateogry' : 2, 'shape' : 'circle'}
> 
> will work as well.

    locals().update(mydict)

Oops.  I just actually read the docs:

    locals(     )
        Update and return a dictionary representing the current 
        local symbol table. *Warning*: The contents of this
        dictionary should not be modified; changes may not affect
        the values of local variables used by the interpreter.

[Emphasis added.]

So, perhaps, the following is to be preferred:

    for name, value in mydict.items():
        exec('%s = %s' % (name, value))

But, what do you want to do about name clashes?

Dave

-- 
Dave Kuhlman
http://www.rexx.com/~dkuhlman


From james at ractive.ch  Wed Apr 14 17:56:54 2004
From: james at ractive.ch (Jean-Pierre Bergamin)
Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2004 23:56:54 +0200
Subject: Socket error: 10053 software caused connection abort
Message-ID: <c5kc37$kco$1@newshispeed.ch>

Hello there

I'm getting an error on Windows XP when I send big data chunks over a socket
connection. The exception I get is: "socket.error: (10053, 'Software caused
connection abort')"
This happens in the socket.recv function.

What I found out is that such errors can occur if there's not enough buffer
for receiving data in the underlying hardware.
On Linux it works fine. I guess, that the socket-code on windows could be
buggy and tries to read from a buffer whithout checking the length.

The server.py script does not alway receive all the data that was sent by
the client.

I'd be glad if someone could test theses scripts to see if this error also
occurs on other coputers and systems.

Or is there anything wrong with the code?


Regards

James

======================================================
server.py
======================================================
import SocketServer

class MyHandler(SocketServer.StreamRequestHandler):
 def get_all(self):
  # Get data as long as there's something on the line
  data = ''
  block_size = 1024
  while(1):
   chunk = self.connection.recv(block_size)
   if not chunk:
    break

   data += chunk

   if (len(chunk) < block_size):
    # We got all the data
    break

  return data

 def handle(self):
  data = self.get_all()

  data_len = len(data)

  if (data_len == 0):
   return

  print "Received: %d" % data_len

  total_sent = 0
  while(total_sent < data_len):
   sent = self.connection.send(data)
   if not sent:
    break

   data = data[sent:]
   total_sent += sent

try:
 s = SocketServer.TCPServer(('', 12345), MyHandler)
 s.serve_forever()
except Error, msg:
 print msg


======================================================
client.py
======================================================
import sys
import socket
from time import sleep

port = 12345
host = 'localhost'
loops = 100
data_len = 12000
send_data = 'x' * data_len
to_send = len(send_data)

for _ in range(loops):
 s = socket.socket(socket.AF_INET, socket.SOCK_STREAM)
 s.connect(("localhost", port))
 total_sent = 0
 while(total_sent < to_send):
  sent = s.send(send_data)
  if not sent:
   break;
  print "Sent: %d" % sent
  total_sent += sent

 print "Total-sent: %d" % total_sent

 # Get data as long as there's something on the line
 data = ''

 block_size = 1024

 while(1):
  got = s.recv(block_size)

  if not got:
   print "Connection broken"
   break

  data += got

  if (len(got) < block_size):
   # We got all the data
   break

 data_len = len(data)
 s.close()
 print 'Received bytes: %d' % len(data)




From toby at rcsreg.com  Thu Apr 15 19:47:41 2004
From: toby at rcsreg.com (Tobiah)
Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2004 23:47:41 GMT
Subject: Newbie question: matching
In-Reply-To: <fc49c257.0404151513.8ea0ad1@posting.google.com>
References: <fc49c257.0404151513.8ea0ad1@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <cf1c80cc8d5001590dab0554c993d436@news.teranews.com>

This should really be done with the XML parsing
libraries.  I don't remember the libs now, but
I watched a co-worker translate HTML into XML,
and then use minidom, or sax or some other lib
to parse the XML.  It is very convenient once
you see how to do it. You either trigger an
event for each tag/text, or get handed an entire
object tree representing your HTML, which you can
traverse and examine at a much higher level than
you can trying to match tags with regular expressions.

Toby

josh R wrote:
> Hi all,
> 
> I am trying to write some python to parse html code.  I find it easier
> to do in perl, but would like to learn some basic python.  My code
> looks like this:
> 
> line = "<tr>eat at joe's</tr><tr>or else</tr><tr>you'll starve</tr>"
> so = re.compile("(\<tr\>.*?\<\\tr\>)")
> foo=so.match(line)
> print foo.groups()
> 
> I'd like to get an array of elements that looks like this:
> 
> array(0)= <tr>eat at joe's</tr>
> array(1)= <tr>or else</tr>
> array(2)= <tr>you'll starve</tr>
> 
> Could you please tell me the correct way to do the matching?
> 
> also, is there something similiar to perl's s/foo/bar/g?
> 
> Thanks!!!
> Josh



From ncw at axis.demon.co.uk  Fri Apr  2 05:30:05 2004
From: ncw at axis.demon.co.uk (Nick Craig-Wood)
Date: 02 Apr 2004 10:30:05 GMT
Subject: Travelling salesman variation in python
References: <slrnc6on9h.spl.erlendga@tva.ifi.uio.no>
Message-ID: <slrnc6qdum.8l0.ncw@irishsea.home.craig-wood.com>

Erlend Andreas Garberg <erlendga at tva.ifi.uio.no> wrote:
>  My problem is that when the number of nodes is higher than 8, the 
>  algorithm slows to a crawl (because of O(n!) complexity). I wonder if 
>  there is some way I can optimize my algorithm to make it run faster? 
>  Currently it takes 20 seconds to compute the best combination with 9 
>  nodes on my hardware.

I had to solve exactly this problem when I was at University (many
moons ago now ;-)

I used Simulated Annealing - have a search for the term and you'll see
plenty of references.  Its good at finding a (local) minimum.

Just be glad you don't have to write it in Fortran like I did!

-- 
Nick Craig-Wood
ncw at axis.demon.co.uk


From chad at sabinasp.com  Fri Apr 23 23:31:21 2004
From: chad at sabinasp.com (Chad Thompson)
Date: Sat, 24 Apr 2004 03:31:21 GMT
Subject: site.py
Message-ID: <dclic.13880183$Of.2311527@news.easynews.com>

I have a patch / feature enhancement for python that affects site.py.

Is there a moderator for this file?

>From what I have read, my code doesnt seem to fit into a PEP, its not a bug
fix either.  This is why I wanted to see if a moderator could answer some
questions.

Ideas?

Thanks
Chad




From jbperez808 at yahoo.com  Tue Apr  6 23:56:18 2004
From: jbperez808 at yahoo.com (Jon Perez)
Date: Wed, 07 Apr 2004 11:56:18 +0800
Subject: Type checking inside a C extension... doesn't throw exception
 on failure
In-Reply-To: <mailman.392.1081257204.20120.python-list@python.org> 
References: <c4qdfh$2l5b73$1@ID-180326.news.uni-berlin.de>	<40712D9E.3050802@prescod.net>
	<407229F6.6080809@yahoo.com>
	<mailman.392.1081257204.20120.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <c4vto8$2n51qf$1@ID-180326.news.uni-berlin.de>

Jon Perez wrote:

> Andrew MacIntyre wrote:
> 
>> First rule of using the Python C API: _always_ check the return value of
>> API functions.
> 
> This only applies to API functions which return PyObject*, right?

...because it is not hard to find instances in the source code for
the modules that come with Python where, for example, PyTuple_SetItem()'s
return value is not checked for.


From seibold at bartsch.de  Fri Apr 23 01:06:08 2004
From: seibold at bartsch.de (seibold at bartsch.de)
Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2004 07:06:08 +0200 (CEST)
Subject: Ich bin im Urlaub
Message-ID: <20040423050608.C635517F4EE@mars.bartsch.de>

Ich bin vom 16. April, 2004 (15 Uhr) bis zum 2. Mai, 2004 (23 Uhr) nicht da.

Ihre E-Mail-Betreffs "Re: Re: Thanks!" werde ich beantworten,

sobald ich wieder da bin.



From paul at prescod.net  Sat Apr  3 19:19:20 2004
From: paul at prescod.net (Paul Prescod)
Date: Sat, 03 Apr 2004 16:19:20 -0800
Subject: Parrot for Python
In-Reply-To: <106theugbjm8l30@news.supernews.com>
References: <930ba99a.0404030251.c2d2107@posting.google.com>
	<106theugbjm8l30@news.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <406F5488.5020801@prescod.net>

John Roth wrote:
>...
> 
> I believe there were some people working on a Python
> port to Parrot a while ago, but they lost interest when
> the then current Parrot implementation was insufficient
> to handle what they wanted to do.
> 
> It's all a volunteer effort; it'll get done if enough
> people want to get together to get it done.

The developers of Parrot are implementing Python on Parrot themselves.

http://www.hole.fi/jajvirta/weblog/20040108T2001.html

As of a month ago:

"Just in case anyone's keeping track, here are a few things that are 
working:
	? 	Bytecode loading
	? 	 Objects
	? 	 Method calls
	? 	 Operator Overloading

  oh, yeah, and all that pesky math stuff, subroutines, and strings. 
They work too, though Unicode needs some help. And variables. We can do 
variables.

Still need some work on nested namespaces, actual bytecode translation, 
and object performance, but..."





From beliavsky at aol.com  Wed Apr 28 11:28:48 2004
From: beliavsky at aol.com (beliavsky at aol.com)
Date: 28 Apr 2004 08:28:48 -0700
Subject: PyChecker does STATIC analysis?
Message-ID: <3064b51d.0404280728.5fb7539e@posting.google.com>

If I run PyChecker on the following program, stored in xtry.py, 

m = 10000000
k = 0
for i in xrange(m):
    k = k + i
print k
x = range(3)
print x[3]

the output is

49999995000000

Warnings...

xtry:1: NOT PROCESSED UNABLE TO IMPORT
Processing xtry...
  Caught exception importing module xtry:
    File "H:\Energy\rao\python\Lib\site-packages\pychecker\checker.py",
line 530, in setupMainCode()
      module = imp.load_module(self.moduleName, file, filename, smt)
    File "xtry.py", line 7
      print x[3]
  IndexError: list index out of range


I am surprised that PyChecker actually needs to execute the code block

for i in xrange(m):
    k = k + i
print k

before finding the out-of-bounds error. I have seen PyChecker
described as a "static analysis" tool, and it does find some problems
that such a tool ought to. But it seems that for the simple program I
have shown, it basically runs the program, and I could just run the
Python program to find the same errors. An aspect of Python
programming that sometimes frustrates me is that a program will run,
perhaps for a few minutes, before stopping because of a misspelled
variable or an out-of-bounds variable. It seems that currently,
PyChecker will not solve this problem. I wish there were a tool that
did (and would be willing to pay for it).

The Lahey/Fujitsu Fortran 95 compiler is able to catch the
out-of-bounds error at COMPILE time for an analogous Fortran program.


From martin at v.loewis.de  Fri Apr 16 15:52:16 2004
From: martin at v.loewis.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?=22Martin_v=2E_L=F6wis=22?=)
Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2004 21:52:16 +0200
Subject: Embeded python without filesystem
In-Reply-To: <c5o5em$bq$1@taurus.webcorp.pl>
References: <c5o5em$bq$1@taurus.webcorp.pl>
Message-ID: <c5pdhe$3uq$04$1@news.t-online.com>

Jacek Cz wrote:
> Do you have some tips about making Python small (minimal list of 
> modules) and isolated from filesystem. I have an idea
> 
> #define Py_WITHOUT_FILES
> This switch should disable some function/modules from modules sys, 
> fileobject, but also import from file, path resolving etd.

It would be good if you could try to develop such a patch, and would
volunteer to maintain it. If you do volunteer, there is a good chance
that it gets included with Python.

Regards,
Martin



From pyth78 at yahoo.com  Fri Apr 16 06:56:13 2004
From: pyth78 at yahoo.com (Ian Adams)
Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2004 03:56:13 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: QueryInterface -- NewB
Message-ID: <20040416105613.7569.qmail@web41409.mail.yahoo.com>

How do I do this in Python?
 
hres = pObj->QueryInterface(IID_MyIntf1, (void **) &piMyIntf1);
 
piMyIntf1->QueryInterface(IID_MyIntf2, (void **) &piMyIntf2);
 
piMyIntf2->SomeMthd(args);
 
Also, how do I call/manage smart pointer interfaces?
 
Thanks.
 
 
 

		
---------------------------------
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Tax Center - File online by April 15th
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From no_spam at terastat.com  Tue Apr 27 19:31:12 2004
From: no_spam at terastat.com (bap)
Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2004 23:31:12 GMT
Subject: Problem with PY2EXE and VPython
References: <sXgjc.43843$_L6.2802892@attbi_s53>
	<mailman.55.1083090463.25742.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <43Cjc.54834$aQ6.4096572@attbi_s51>

Thomas
   Thanks -- removing the OPENGL dlls did the trick. Turns out they are
included with Windows2k (and xp and Nt) -- which I once knew, but anyway
having another copy apparently greatly confused Windows.

Bruce


"Thomas Heller" <theller at python.net> wrote in message
news:mailman.55.1083090463.25742.python-list at python.org...
> Bruce, I could not reply to the private mail you sent me (some permanent
> error at the mail server), so here it goes:
>
> Bruce Peterson writes:
>
> > Thomas
> >    Thanks -- here are the files in the distribution directory created
> >    by PY2EXE for tower of Hanoi demo.
> > cvisual.dll
> > datetime.pyd
> > DDRAW.dll
> > dirlist.txt
> > GLU32.dll
> > hanoi.exe
> > library.zip
> > multiarray.pyd
> > OPENGL32.dll
> > python23.dll
> > umath.pyd
> > w9xpopen.exe
> > _numpy.pyd
> > _sre.pyd
> >
>
> Bruce, you should at least remove these files from the dist dir, and
> make sure in other ways that opengl and direct draw (is this directX, or
> how it's called?)  is installed on the target system:
>
> > DDRAW.dll
> > GLU32.dll
> > OPENGL32.dll
>
> I'm not sure where cvisual.dll comes from.  (10 seconds later, after
> googling around: ah, it's from VPython, so it must stay).
>
> The other files are Python extensions.
>
> Thomas
>
>




From opengeometry at yahoo.ca  Sat Apr 17 19:37:43 2004
From: opengeometry at yahoo.ca (William Park)
Date: 17 Apr 2004 23:37:43 GMT
Subject: Difficulty Finding Python Developers
References: <65cbc3dd.0404140641.3501fde8@posting.google.com>
	<65cbc3dd.0404141018.36d9d4ce@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <c5sf46$5aihl$1@ID-99293.news.uni-berlin.de>

Paul Morrow <pm_mon at yahoo.com> wrote:
> For those who've asked...
> 
> This particular project is essentially a web-based registration
> application.  We'll probably want to use mod_python to serve the
> pages, and Oracle for the database backend.  It will have things like
> a white-paper area that requires registration to access, an opt-in/out
> email component, and the like.
> 
> But we do want the developer to be physically here (in Atlanta).

"3-month" usually means "Summer student", because it indicates that you
want lots of staff turnover.  So, university, college, or high school
comes to mind.  In fact, go to your local High School, hire couple of
script kiddies, and teach them Python.  You'll probably get more result
out of them, and cheaper too.

Also, if you post some kind of "open competition", say
    1. $5000 for a script to get HTML form data, format them, and ...
    2. $2000 for ...
    3. $1000 for ...
you might get more response.  Here, you are concentrating on result, and
not on tools.  This is because your client pays you for getting the job
done, and not for using Python.

cc: OP

-- 
William Park, Open Geometry Consulting, <opengeometry at yahoo.ca>
Linux solution/training/migration, Thin-client


From roy at panix.com  Thu Apr 15 09:07:17 2004
From: roy at panix.com (Roy Smith)
Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2004 09:07:17 -0400
Subject: List vs tuples
References: <c54cjb$5fs$1@planja.arnes.si> <107bf8q8fhsmg5e@news.supernews.com>
	<7in05lfpqt.fsf@enark.csis.hku.hk>
	<hQofc.184$Lu2.74988@news.uswest.net>
Message-ID: <roy-4FC0FB.09071715042004@reader2.panix.com>

"urnerk at qwest.net" <urnerk at qwest.net> wrote:

> As for emulating C structs, I liked the suggestion of using a class with
> only data attributes.  That's a logical analogy, as in C++, it's the struct
> that morphs into the basic class, with the addition of methods to data.
> 
> However, if you really want to used a low level C struct, there's actually a
> struct in the standard library implemented using a C struct.  

That depends on what you're trying to do.  The struct module lets you 
get at (or generate) packed binary data.  Unless you're dealing with 
binary files or network protocols, you'll probably never have a reason 
to use it.  In C terms, the functionality the struct module implements 
is essentially a union of a struct and a char array.

The degenerate class I had suggested makes a lot more sense for the more 
common case of just wanted to build an aggregate data item and be able 
to refer to the members by name.


From pirx at python.net  Sat Apr  3 20:59:16 2004
From: pirx at python.net (Christian Tismer)
Date: Sun, 4 Apr 2004 01:59:16 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Python is faster than C
References: <406F0907.96F37EA1@tunes.org> <7xy8pcogaa.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<406F454B.C4CC8063@tunes.org> <7xekr4vdek.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<406F5E95.EBE6D3E8@tunes.org>
Message-ID: <loom.20040404T034309-437@post.gmane.org>

Armin Rigo <arigo <at> tunes.org> writes:

> Again I'm not saying it is trivial to implement it, but that not having
> to expose for optimization purposes 'xrange' and the whole 'iterator'
> part of the language would be worth it, in my opinion.

First of all, I'm trying to see whether I can write through this interface.
As you might have realized, sarcastically after they fooled me with that
April joke, my site was really lost, andthis is a tad.

Anyway, I'd like to add that Armin's idea can be extended (as he surely knows)
to special casing seldom assignments to and algorithmically given array.
That is, in the case of just a few assignments, a list could internally
aufment the expression. If the number of elements grows, it could be
turned into a preferred dictionary, after reaching some threshold.
And after another threshold, it could be turned into something like
a real list, or just a specialized, typed list, depending on the type.

In general, I share Armin's impression, that iterators are nothing else
but an explicit way to spell optimizations.
While explicit is better than implicit, in the case of optimizations,
I believe it is an over-specification, and almost completely in the false
direction. We have to prove this in a known project, still.

There is one thing where I think explicit iterator do make some sense,
in a way the reader might not expect.
Let me show:

if you do something like

for each in sequence:
  try:
    do_something_with(each)
  except SomeThingWrongWithThis:
    # handle exception somehow

In terms of iterators, we implicitly create an interator here and consume it.
The explicit notation of iterators gives us this advantage:

instead you can do it this way:

it = iter(sequence)
can_continue = 1
while can_continue:
  try:
    for each in it:
      do_something_with(each)
  exceptSomeThingWrongWithThis
    can_continue = some_recovery(each)
    continue

In words: By the help of iterators, it is possible to write exception
handlers for special cases *outside* the loop, repair the error, and
continue iterating in the loop.
I have used this pattern a lot of times now, and I'm quite happy ith it.

But I have to admit, that this is too a bad, explicit optimization, and
a compiler could be smart enough to do this for me, automatically.

cheers - chris





From fumanchu at amor.org  Wed Apr 14 17:22:50 2004
From: fumanchu at amor.org (Robert Brewer)
Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2004 14:22:50 -0700
Subject: Fast Data Comparison (dict v. list. v string)
Message-ID: <DE1CF2B4FEC4A342BF62B6B2B334601E561FF7@opus.amorhq.net>

Scott Brady Drummonds wrote:
> I'm a relative novice at Python and am working on some 
> optimizations in my
> first Python project.  At its core, this tool I'm writing 
> needs to perform
> many comparisons to fixed-size lists of fixed-length strings.
> 
> Currently, my implementation uses dictionaries to store each 
> string.  I
> maintain a separate "key-mapping" dictionary that maps keys from one
> dictionary to the other.  Then, all I have to do to compare the two
> dictionaries is as follows:
>   for metaKey in keyMap.keys():
>     if dict1[metaKey] != dict2[keyMap[metaKey]]:
>       #  Do some processing

Try writing that as:

for key, val in keyMap.itervalues():
    if dict1[key] != dict2[val]:
        #  Do some processing

...and see how much faster it is on your dataset. 33-50% faster would
not be uncommon on a large set.


FuManChu



From marco at reimeika.ca  Tue Apr  6 02:19:32 2004
From: marco at reimeika.ca (marco)
Date: 06 Apr 2004 02:19:32 -0400
Subject: regex help for a newbie
References: <c4rkh6$2kr4f5$2@ID-165840.news.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <yibn05p4oi3.fsf@coxeter.math.toronto.edu>

Marco Herrn <herrn at gmx.net> writes:

> I have the following string in my program:
> 
>   string= "aaa%(BBB%(CCC)BBB)aaa%(DDD)aaa"

[snip]

> the parts in a recursive function. So the thing I want to achieve here
> is to extract %(BBB%(CCC)BBB) and %(DDD).

p1, p2 = "aaa%(BBB%(CCC)BBB)aaa%(DDD)aaa".split("aaa")[1:-1]

Cheers,

--
marco at reimeika.ca
Gunnm: Broken Angel                      http://amv.reimeika.ca
http://reimeika.ca/                      http://photo.reimeika.ca


From vald at dead.art.pl  Fri Apr 16 18:50:06 2004
From: vald at dead.art.pl (KN)
Date: Sat, 17 Apr 2004 00:50:06 +0200
Subject: global variables extended to other objects/modules
Message-ID: <20040416225006.GY22646@hell.art.pl>


Hello, I'm new to this list, and I have an important
question at the beginning.

There is a matter that concerns me - it's the globales
implementation. I've read nearly everything I found 
about this and about problems people were having with
using it.

And now I'd like to ask here, because it seems to be
more than globales() matter, but an object-programming
one. I don't know any patterns for solving such problems.
Actually I'm working on an web application based on
mod_python, but this is not very important here. I use
MVC patterns for application flow, so I have one object
that works as handler and controller, and this object
creates Action-classes which run all necessary business
logic by creating other objects that for example fetch
information from database. You probably know what I need
to do here - I need a link to the database that will be
accessible from _every_ module and object that needs to
use it. 

I wanted it to be started and closed by main module -
controller.py. Main area where I will use it will be 
a bunch of small model-objects, like Person/Store etc.
classess that fetch data from db, saves them, return
them to Action object which passess them back to the
controller etc.

Now, when I cannot have a really global attributes that
will be accessible even for objects imported from 
different modules, only way I see is to pass it in
constructors, so:

  controller.py  -> Action.__init__(dblink)

  then in Action I need to use Person and Job classess
  that both need db access:

  action.py -> Person.__init__(dblink), Job.__init__(dblink)

and so on.

Is this a common way of solving this problem? What I 
don't want for sure is multiple connections per request
so I need a single object storing db_link. Is there 
any solution that will not force me to pass this reference
to every object I create, when I need db access?

I thought something about using globals() there and I
found that I can use sys.modules for getting the main
object (controller) from any other module. 

  when I define in controller.py which is __main__
  something like global db = DBlink()

  I can use in any module something like this, right?
  
  local_db_link = sys.modules['__main__'].db 

  and I will get reference to this link created on the
  beginning of application?

But this seems to be ugly and not very object-oriented?

The problem wouldn't be so big if I hadn't so many 
attributes I need to pass to most of my objects, like
request, session, configuration and other attribs that
should be 'application-wide'
It would be very bad to define in every object __init__
which will have so many arguments.

Best regards,
Kamil


  




From teiffel at attglobal.net  Tue Apr 20 10:40:43 2004
From: teiffel at attglobal.net (Marcello Pietrobon)
Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 10:40:43 -0400
Subject: closing file
Message-ID: <4085366B.2020407@attglobal.net>

Hello,

Once I open a file, for example as:
class MyClass:
    def logFileOpen( self ):
        self.fdFilenameLog = file( self.filenameLog, 'a' )
        return

I cannot find in hte documentation how to make sure the file are closed.

I guess that Python is closing all files at the end of the application 
or when an Exception is raised

Is this true ?
Is the file closed when the destructor is called ? ( Internally because 
I don't see a way to call a destructor in Python ).

Thank you very much,
Marcello




From mark at prothon.org  Wed Apr 21 16:02:35 2004
From: mark at prothon.org (Mark Hahn)
Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2004 13:02:35 -0700
Subject: Dollar sign ($) on foriegn keyboards? (prothon)
References: <mk3hc.13895$dZ1.10823@fed1read04><mailman.793.1082468190.20120.python-list@python.org><IEghc.17557$dZ1.1035@fed1read04>
	<mailman.837.1082562788.20120.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <vrAhc.19132$dZ1.2086@fed1read04>


"Fredrik Lundh" <fredrik at pythonware.com> wrote ...

> when I posted my message, 25 of 48 messages visible in my newsreader
> were Prothon-related.

In my defense, who would have thought that asking if international keyboards
had trouble typing a dollar sign would be a troll question?  I would never
had thought to make a web page questionaire for such an innocent sounding
question.

Do you think it's because I added "(prothon)" to the subject?  I do that as
a courtesy but maybe it causes trolling.




From mwallis at swri.org  Mon Apr 26 17:09:55 2004
From: mwallis at swri.org (Melissa Wallis)
Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2004 16:09:55 -0500
Subject: omniorb, python and callbacks
Message-ID: <108qul5he6cn1ba@corp.supernews.com>

I have a class with 5 callbacks.  Two of the callbacks work fine but the
others don't.  The main difference is that the callbacks that don't work are
composed of a sequence of structs.  I noticed a comment about this same
problem on the web but no solution was noted. What makes the callbacks with
the sequences so different?  It seems that when one of the callbacks with a
sequence  is called it just hangs.  I am talking to a TAO orb from omniORB.

Thanks for any help
Melissa




From klappnase at web.de  Tue Apr 27 05:50:57 2004
From: klappnase at web.de (klappnase)
Date: 27 Apr 2004 02:50:57 -0700
Subject: askstring => grab failes
References: <YRajc.24437$_o3.804189@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>
Message-ID: <a7a67196.0404270150.6a8875f7@posting.google.com>

wes weston <wweston at att.net> wrote in message news:<YRajc.24437$_o3.804189 at bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>...
> Guys/Gals,
>     Does anyone know why a call to tkSimpleDialog.askstring
> would result in a grab fail error. The call is from a toplevel
> window. The error happens about two thirds of the time! It
> doesn't happen at all in other apps. Is it a build issue?
> 
> Redhat 9.0
> Python 2.3.3
> 
> Thanks,
> wes

I had this same problem (Mandrake9.1, Python2.3.3/Tk8.4.5 as well as
Python2.2.3/Tk8.3.3) that I got error mesages on askstring() dialogs:

TclError: grab failed: window not viewable


Because it happens with both python/Tk versions I don't think it's a
build problem.
Maybe it's a Tk-bug?
It drove me nuts for a while until I wrote my own dialog widget.
Any hints here would be very appreciated.

Regards

Michael


From bdesth.quelquechose at free.quelquepart.fr  Wed Apr 28 05:12:11 2004
From: bdesth.quelquechose at free.quelquepart.fr (Bruno Desthuilliers)
Date: Wed, 28 Apr 2004 11:12:11 +0200
Subject: Embedding OCaml within Python
In-Reply-To: <37aad18.0404280019.500e2841@posting.google.com>
References: <37aad18.0404280019.500e2841@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <408f6ef2$0$17614$636a15ce@news.free.fr>

Max Powers wrote:
> I've spent an interesting day searching the web for help with calling
> OCaml functions from a python program and have come to the newsgroup
> for some advice (unfortunately I'm learning both languages at the same
> time, so maybe I've missed something obvious!)
> 
> The situation is this; I've got a large legacy program that is written
> in ocaml, within which there's a parser. I'd like to be able to call
> that parser from my python program (actually it's really a GUI using
> wxPython), rather than reimplement it (and then have to maintain two
> parsers into the future).

I may say something stupid but... I suppose this OCaml program has a CLI 
  ? If so, can't you just call the OCaml program from your wxPython GUI 
and get result back via a pipe ?
> 
> I've come across Viper, which looks like a python compiler/interpreter
> implemented in OCaml, so I imagine that I could get it to do some
> magic tricks to call a ocaml library from python, but I think that's
> doomed to failure because of the C extensions of wxPython.

AFAIK, wxWidget is C++, not C...

> I've stumbled across Pycaml, but don't quite understand how to use it
> to call ocaml from python. Alternatively I think I can wrap the ocaml
> library in a C wrapper and then call that from python.

For what I saw (30' fast scan of the Pycaml page), it seems you would 
need to write OCaml wrappers for your legacy OCaml code. But I dont have 
any working experience in this kind of stuff, so I may have it all wrong.

> Can anyone give advice/share experiences? Is combining OCaml with
> python relatively straightforward with a bit more effort, or am I in
> for a world of pain?

I guess you could ask help from the OCaml community too...

> Thanks,
Err... Not sure I'm really helpful here :(

Bruno



From mark at prothon.org  Thu Apr 22 23:19:10 2004
From: mark at prothon.org (Mark Hahn)
Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2004 20:19:10 -0700
Subject: Why we will use obj$func() often
References: <d2Uhc.22272$dZ1.1600@fed1read04> <84Uhc.22278$dZ1.5087@fed1read04>
	<mailman.927.1082665370.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<8AWhc.23114$dZ1.11070@fed1read04> <40883BFE.B381518A@alcyone.com>
	<27_hc.23801$dZ1.2716@fed1read04>
	<ZIqdna0YaN2M5hXd4p2dnA@powergate.ca>
Message-ID: <OW%hc.23919$dZ1.20166@fed1read04>


"Peter Hansen" <peter at engcorp.com> wrote ...

> It will be interesting to see whether
> Prothon manages to achieve similar success in either area.

I apologize if I got competitive.  As  I have said many times, I don't
expect Prothon to compete with Python.  It's hard to bust your butt on
something day in and out without getting carried away.




From john at hazen.net  Wed Apr 28 18:11:48 2004
From: john at hazen.net (John Hazen)
Date: Wed, 28 Apr 2004 15:11:48 -0700
Subject: Path ... where is my application's home dir?
In-Reply-To: <F1921F85572CB04D9F55B14BDC76B3E443485D@tdi_nt9.internal.viacom-outdoor.co.uk>
References: <F1921F85572CB04D9F55B14BDC76B3E443485D@tdi_nt9.internal.viacom-outdoor.co.uk>
Message-ID: <20040428221148.GB6584@gate2.hazen.net>

[Marco Aschwanden]
> >But I still wonder: Suppose sys.argv[0] wouldn't work. What 
> >would be the 
> >easiest way to find out where an application lies?
> >
> >Ideas:
> >1. going through sys.path and checking whether the application 
> >file is in 
> >a dir
> >2. or is there a module method, that tells you where it is stored?

[Tim Golden]
> As far as I know, it's effectively impossible: the "application" you're
> running is the Python executable, so even if you were do some fancy
> stuff with the win32 process/thread API and work out who you were
> and where you were running, that'd probably give you:
> c:/pythonxx/python.exe.

After poking around in the interactive python, I found __file__.

I wrote this test script, and created a dummy module "loc" in the same
directory:

--------- loc.py ----------
pass
--------- end loc.py ----------

--------- test.py ----------
#!/usr/bin/python

import loc,os

print __file__

print loc.__file__
print os.path.dirname(loc.__file__)
--------- end test.py ----------


Here's the output:  (MacOS)

lap:john$ ./test.py 
./test.py
/Users/john/loc.pyc
/Users/john
lap:john$ 

(output shows test.py path relative and loc path absolute invoked from
different directories, and by invoking with "python test.py")

Note that, for some reason, the file that was initially loaded by python
uses a relative pathname, but any modules loaded by that module seem to
use fully qualified path.

I'd be interested if there's a reason for this, and if it works in
windows as well.

If it does, and you can package another file with your application
(especially since you talked about having an "application directory"),
then it could be a solution that works without invoking any os-specific
commands.

-John



From jmdeschamps at cvm.qc.ca  Mon Apr 19 11:59:16 2004
From: jmdeschamps at cvm.qc.ca (jmdeschamps)
Date: 19 Apr 2004 08:59:16 -0700
Subject: Threats to the: Daily Python URL!
References: <2ae25c6b.0404182250.4c5bc870@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3d06fae9.0404190759.3096d492@posting.google.com>

paddy3118 at netscape.net (Paddy McCarthy) wrote in message 
...
> I sent the following this morning:
> ...
> To: 	daily at pythonware.com
> 
> 
> Hi,
> I read your 'Administrative note'  at http://www.pythonware.com/daily/ today
> 
> Please don't stop the excellent work that you do.
> I don't know what threats and insults you suffered but I would like to 
> ensure you that I for one read the column and value it.
> 
> Thanks,  Paddy.

I second the comment "Please don't stop the excellent work that you do."

My daily morning routine is such:
1- open e-mail
2- open Daily News (thanks again)
3- open comp.lang.python
4- open Dilbert... 
That and coffee and the day gets on a roll...!

Jean-Marc


From mwh at python.net  Mon Apr 19 07:07:20 2004
From: mwh at python.net (Michael Hudson)
Date: Mon, 19 Apr 2004 11:07:20 GMT
Subject: AOP use cases
References: <84fc4588.0404140106.3fa0c55@posting.google.com>
	<slrnc7q1ss.1aa.alf@largo.fayauffre.org>
	<cb035744.0404141130.170f51c4@posting.google.com>
	<slrnc7sgat.vp.alf@largo.fayauffre.org>
	<cb035744.0404160442.2f0b1661@posting.google.com>
	<0pydnSB4WYuieuLdRVn-hQ@powergate.ca>
	<35qdnT4kNsX1kB3dRVn-gg@powergate.ca>
Message-ID: <m3n058ql93.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk>

Peter Hansen <peter at engcorp.com> writes:

> Peter Hansen wrote:
> > I would be very interested to hear some real-world and real useful
> > use cases for AOP as well.  So far, the logging example seems to
> > be put forth so often that I'm starting to suspect that's the
> > *only* "useful" thing people are doing with it. :-)
> >  From direct personal experience, could some AOP folks please
> > point out some compelling use cases so that the doubting
> > Thomases (and Wills, and Peters) can better understand and
> > accept the idea of AOP as being more than just a few fringe
> > cases?
> 
> Thanks for the replies so far, but what concerns me is that
> almost no one seems to have actually used AOP in their code.

What do you understand "AOP" to mean?  One meaning of "AOP" seems to
be a collection of techniques and tools to make programming in the
Java environment a pleasanter experience.  This meaning hardly applies
to programming in Python...

Cheers,
mwh

-- 
  I think my standards have lowered enough that now I think ``good
  design'' is when the page doesn't irritate the living fuck out of 
  me.                        -- http://www.jwz.org/gruntle/design.html


From lesstif-admin at lesstif.org  Sat Apr  3 02:21:28 2004
From: lesstif-admin at lesstif.org (lesstif-admin at lesstif.org)
Date: Sat, 03 Apr 2004 02:21:28 -0500
Subject: Request to mailing list Lesstif rejected
Message-ID: <E1B9fT6-0007ax-6E@mail.python.org>

Your request to the Lesstif mailing list

    Posting of your message titled "Re: My details"

has been rejected by the list moderator.  The moderator gave the
following reason for rejecting your request:

"Non-members are not allowed to post messages to this list."

Any questions or comments should be directed to the list administrator
at:

    lesstif-admin at lesstif.org



From moosebumps at moosebumps.com  Thu Apr 22 03:16:51 2004
From: moosebumps at moosebumps.com (Moosebumps)
Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2004 07:16:51 GMT
Subject: String/source code analysis tools
References: <j0Khc.25133$Q%5.6444@newssvr27.news.prodigy.com>
Message-ID: <DjKhc.25136$O86.13061@newssvr27.news.prodigy.com>

Man, I love Python!  After writing this, with about 10 minutes of googling,
I found the difflib, which can do diffs token by token.  I can do what I
want with about 10 lines of code probably.  Wow.

I think the diff is pretty much the best solution -- but if anyone has any
other pointers I would appreciate it.  I would have to diff all pairs of
files and I can get a score of how similar they are to each other.  So if I
have 10 files I would have to run it 45 times to get all pairs of diffs.
That should be OK since they are small files in general.

MB


"Moosebumps" <moosebumps at moosebumps.com> wrote in message
news:j0Khc.25133$Q%5.6444 at newssvr27.news.prodigy.com...
> I have a whole bunch of script files in a custom scripting "language" that
> were basically copied and pasted all over the place -- a huge mess,
> basically.
>
> I want to clean this up using Python -- and I'm wondering if there is any
> sort of algorithm for detecting copied and pasted code with slight
> modifications.
>
> i.e. a simple example:
>
> If I have two pieces of code like this:
>
> func1( a, b, c, 13, d, e, f )
> func2( x, y, z, z )
>
> and
>
> func1( a, b, c, 55, d, e, f )
> func2( x, y, z, x )
>
> I would like to be able to detect the redundancies.  This is obviously a
> simple example, the real code is worlds messier -- say a 3 line script,
each
> line has 800 characters, copied 10 times over with slight modifications
> among the 800 characters.  I'm not exaggerating.  So I'm wondering if
there
> is any code out there that will assist me in refactoring this code.
>
> My feeling that a general solution this is very intractable, but I thought
> I'd ask.  I'd probably have to roll my own based on the specifics of the
> situation.
>
> It is actually sort of like a diff algorithm maybe, but it wouldn't go
line
> by line.  How would I do a diff, token by token?  I don't know anything
> about what algorithms diffs use.
>
> thanks,
> MB
>
>
>




From tim.one at comcast.net  Wed Apr 21 14:50:25 2004
From: tim.one at comcast.net (Tim Peters)
Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2004 14:50:25 -0400
Subject: Dollar sign ($) on foriegn keyboards? (prothon)
In-Reply-To: <c66eed$po2$1@sea.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCCEMNKGAB.tim.one@comcast.net>

[Tim]
>> Prothon is trying some design decisions that are very hard to try in
>> CPython now, and how they turn out is interesting to me.

[/F]
> design by self-selecting newsgroup subsets has been tried before, also
> for CPython.  it a great way to waste lots of time and get really
> lousy results (or no results at all, in CPython's case).

Have you followed these threads?  Prothon has different designs for object
layout, class semantics, threading, and garbage collection (among other
subsystems), and c.l.py has played little (if any) role in what Mark wants
to do about those.  The consequences of those decisions ("how they turn
out") should be of interest to everyone with at least a smidgen of knowledge
about CPython's and/or Jython's implementations.

Then again, you're just crabby today <0.7 wink>.




From jepler at unpythonic.net  Tue Apr  6 22:50:20 2004
From: jepler at unpythonic.net (Jeff Epler)
Date: Tue, 6 Apr 2004 21:50:20 -0500
Subject: Tkinter radiobutton border
In-Reply-To: <a6d1df44.0404061342.63d8ce60@posting.google.com>
References: <a6d1df44.0404061342.63d8ce60@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <20040407025020.GA30336@unpythonic.net>

Peter Otten's advice is correct, if all you want to do is get rid of
this 1-pixel area.  However, you may want to use highlightbackground to
set it to green, so that the visual cue for "this widget has keyboard
focus" is retained.

To explain a little more, every widget has a "highlight rectangle"
around it, which has a thickness of highlightthickness and a color of
either highlightcolor (if the widget or a child has focus), or
highlightbackground (otherwise).

A few widgets may actually behave differently (buttons on win32 display
a dotted rectangle between the border and the contents, for instance).
Widgets that don't normally take focus (such as frames and labels) have
a 0 highlightthickness by default, but can be given a highlightthickness.

Widgets that tend to take keyboard focus default to a highlight
thickness of 1, with back for highlightcolor and the system background
color for highlightbackground.  This is why I suggest that you consider
setting the highlightbackground to green.

If you create a scrolled area, you may want to set the
highlightthickness of the scrolled widget to 0, and that of the frame
that encloses it and the scrollbars to 1.  This will make the focus
rectangle surround the scrolled widget and the scrollbars together.

Jeff



From peter9547 at btinternet.com  Fri Apr  2 05:16:19 2004
From: peter9547 at btinternet.com (Peter MacKenzie)
Date: Fri, 2 Apr 2004 10:16:19 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: emergent/swarm/evolutionary systems etc
References: <c4aeq8$92a$1@hercules.btinternet.com>
	<c4btjr$8il$1@titan.btinternet.com>
	<c4ccs2$l9j$1@news.service.uci.edu>
	<c4hjp4$dg6$1@sparta.btinternet.com>
	<c4ibr0$ngm$1@news.service.uci.edu>
Message-ID: <c4jehj$6eh$1@titan.btinternet.com>

I'll take that to mean that my chances are slim.  Although this probability
is mediated my lack of a social life, I've conceived of a contingency
wherein a standard spreadsheet application could be used to facilitate at
least some limited degree of modelling.  Given your recommendation, I'll
ensure the feasibility of this option before I commit to the primary
methodology, thereby ensuring that a disappointing rate of progress doesn't
prove fatal for my dissertation.

Fortunately, I've found an online textbook at
http://www.ibiblio.org/obp/thinkCSpy/index.htm, which appears better suited
to my needs than the standard python documentation, and may alleviate some
of the conceptual and syntactical difficulties I've been experiencing.

I expect I may be back here for additional aid in the near-future.




From rlratzel at siliconmetrics.com  Thu Apr  1 17:33:37 2004
From: rlratzel at siliconmetrics.com (Rick Ratzel)
Date: 1 Apr 2004 14:33:37 -0800
Subject: Pyrex gets a perfect score.
References: <lhntj1-u62.ln1@snout.lairds.org>
Message-ID: <905fcd91.0404011433.6681abd9@posting.google.com>

...just curious...did you look at Elmer
(http://elmer.sourceforge.net)?  Elmer generates a C interface to a
Python module.  No knowledge of the Python/C API is necessary, and the
resulting C interface resembles (as close as possible) the underlying
Python interface.  Take a look at:

http://elmer.sourceforge.net/examples.html

   The Elmer examples in this presentation might be helpful too:

http://elmer.sourceforge.net/PyCon04/elmer_pycon04.html

   ...as well as the source code for the examples:

http://elmer.sourceforge.net/PyCon04/Elmer_PyCon04.tgz

   Like you mentioned, since the underlying code is Python, it will
not be as fast as C.  However, Elmer allows you to easily prototype
new functionality in Python and later re-write it in C for speed,
similar to what you said.  The C interface looks "native", and the
generated header file can even be re-used in most cases when/if you
re-write in C.

   The presentation & example code has a C++ example, showing how
Python classes and types can be used "seamlessly" in C++ too.


Kyler Laird <Kyler at news.Lairds.org> wrote in message news:<lhntj1-u62.ln1 at snout.lairds.org>...
> I mentioned earlier that I started using Pyrex because I'm taking a
> computer vision course that requires all assignments to be submitted
> as C(++).  While I could write C it would hurt me to do so and
> certainly distract me from the computer vision aspects.  I like
> using Python these days and Pyrex looked like a good solution.
> 
> (BTW, on the last assignment I saw several messages from someone
> having difficulty with segfaults due to memory allocation problems.
> Grrr...  Time spent messing with pointers is not advancing one's
> understanding of computer vision.)
> 
> Here's one reaction I got on the subject:
> >  1. How is your teacher going to react when you hand in obfuscated-ish
> >  C code that depends on the whole Python interpreter _and_ PIL?
> 
> The bottom line is that I got a perfect score on all (seven) of my
> homework assignments.  At first, I spent way too much time on them -
> figuring out how to use Pyrex and also just having fun exploring
> possibilities that I wouldn't have considered if I'd used C.  Later,
> however, I found that I could start on the assignment the night
> before it's due and complete it in time.  In terms of time, it was
> still a good investment over this short period.
> 
> Most important, I had fun doing these assignments and I learned a
> lot from them.  I am confident that I would not have accomplished
> as much with C (from scratch).
> 
> Our project is going to require fast decoding of an image.  My
> homework solutions have been agonizingly slow.  There's a lot of
> room for optimizations and I'm looking forward to using Pyrex to
> prototype in Python and then replace pieces with C as needed.
> 
> I can certainly see how Pyrex could serve nicely beyond academic
> settings.  Is it a way to sneak Python into projects that are
> "strictly C"?  Sure, it can work.  Can it free the developer to
> quickly experiment with new concepts without spending excessive
> effort on programming?  Definitely.  Is speed and ease of
> development sometimes more important than execution speed.  Yup.
> Can Pyrex be used effectively as a path to a native C solution?
> We'll see, but I'm confident that it can.
> 
> Thank you, Pyrex!
> 
> --kyler


From nhv at cape.com  Fri Apr 30 16:13:20 2004
From: nhv at cape.com (Norman Vine)
Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2004 16:13:20 -0400
Subject: Python Image Library (PIL) build error on Cygwin
References: <tBdkc.8799$f_5.5103@lakeread01><mailman.127.1083272332.25742.python-list@python.org><40928190.5060004@holdenweb.com><20040430193031.GA1728@tishler.net>
	<4092AB1C.8050101@holdenweb.com>
Message-ID: <c6ubvt$43c$1@sea.gmane.org>


"Steve Holden writes:
> 
> sholden at DELLBOY ~/install/Imaging-1.1.4
> $ python setup.py build
> running build
> running build_py
> running build_ext
> building '_imagingtk' extension
> gcc -shared -Wl,--enable-auto-image-base 
> build/temp.cygwin-1.5.9-i686-2.3/_imagingtk.o 
> build/temp.cygwin-1.5.9-i686-2.3/Tk/tkImaging.o -LlibImaging 
> -L/usr/lib/python2.3/config -lImaging -ltk8.4 -ltcl8.4 -lpython2.3 -o 
> build/lib.cygwin-1.5.9
> -i686-2.3/_imagingtk.dll
> /usr/lib/gcc-lib/i686-pc-cygwin/3.3.1/../../../../i686-pc-cygwin/bin/ld: 
> cannot find -ltk8.4
> collect2: ld returned 1 exit status
> error: command 'gcc' failed with exit status 1
> 
> I'm wondering if I might need to download extra libraries, but I can't 
> see anything appropriate.

Try 

  cd  /usr/lib
  ln -s libtk84.a libtk8.4.a
  ln -s libtcl84.a libtcl8.4.aHTHNorman




From peter at engcorp.com  Thu Apr 29 15:49:48 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Thu, 29 Apr 2004 15:49:48 -0400
Subject: static keyword
In-Reply-To: <f8097096.0404291109.5cdaa37b@posting.google.com>
References: <f8097096.0404290607.78aa9ce3@posting.google.com>
	<LeydnWxdT6atjgzdRVn-sA@powergate.ca>
	<f8097096.0404291109.5cdaa37b@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <-pydnU64kMXAwQzdRVn_iw@powergate.ca>

Nick Jacobson wrote:

> I don't know if "hack" is the right word.  What I meant is it seems
> like overkill to have to make (and name) a class, plus add a second
> function, every time you want a function to have a static variable.

I can't recall the last time I wanted a function to have
a static variable.  Years, it's been...

(That probably just says something about our approach to design
and coding.  I'm not criticizing you, just explaining why what
I showed seems natural and simple to mean, but not to you.)

-Peter


From edreamleo at charter.net  Mon Apr 12 20:53:56 2004
From: edreamleo at charter.net (Edward K. Ream)
Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2004 19:53:56 -0500
Subject: accept xml instead of plain Python text?
References: <107jc0h6r5c3g3d@corp.supernews.com>
	<c5chen$udk$00$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <107meh6l6j85id9@corp.supernews.com>

> 1. What advantage would you get?

Lately there has been discussion in Leo's forums about various different
ways of having Leo represent structure in source files.  At present Leo uses
so-called "sentinel" lines, comment lines of the form #@<data>.  An xml
format would make embedding structure very easy.  OTOH, xml is less readable
than sentinels, and some of Leo's users (or their managers) dislike
sentinels, so arguably xml is a step backwards.

As an alternative, there have been some proposals to separate structure from
content in two separate files.  The idea is to script cvs so that the two
files (the content and the structure) are always committed and updated in
synch.  All this is blue-sky musing at present.

> 2. How exactly should the XML look like?

A good question.  One thing I didn't say in my original post was that I
envision one would have all sorts of problems deciding on what pythonMl (or
leoPyMl) would be.  The situation is a similar to the discussions about
document formats.  I suppose one could propose an extensible format: the
Python compiler would ignore the extensions...

> The simplest approach I can think of is...

This might sometimes be useful because one could add "annotation" attributes
to the <python> element.  Like <python "font=">  (or use a style sheet).
However, Leo would probably need more complicated markup, and naturally that
isn't a general approach.

In short, I agree with you, Martin; my first and second responses to this
idea are "reserved".  Thanks for taking the time to reply :-)

Edward
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Edward K. Ream   email:  edreamleo at charter.net
Leo: Literate Editor with Outlines
Leo: http://webpages.charter.net/edreamleo/front.html
--------------------------------------------------------------------




From steveb428pleaseremovethis at hotmail.com  Sat Apr  3 15:15:46 2004
From: steveb428pleaseremovethis at hotmail.com (DilbertFan)
Date: Sat, 03 Apr 2004 20:15:46 GMT
Subject: beginner import confusion
Message-ID: <SXEbc.45642$i63.42730@newssvr25.news.prodigy.com>

Hi,
 I really thought that I had this importing business down.

I recently downloaded and installed mx module for the DateTime class.

In IDLE, I go:

   import mx
   mx.DateTime.DateTime(2004)

   I get AttributeError: 'module' object has no attribute 'DateTime'

 but if you type:
    import mx.DateTime
    mx.DateTime.DateTime(2004)
   <DateTime object for '2004-01-01 00:00:00.00' at a979e0>

If you "import mx", like the first example, doesn't that get everything?

If you know, from the docs, that it contains a DateTime class and then a
DateTime object, and you specify the whole thing, why shouldn't that work?
 thanks for your patience
 Steve







From daniel at dittmar.net  Fri Apr 23 15:56:33 2004
From: daniel at dittmar.net (Daniel Dittmar)
Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2004 21:56:33 +0200
Subject: AOP use cases
In-Reply-To: <c6bfl4$9vb1j$1@ID-139865.news.uni-berlin.de>
References: <84fc4588.0404140106.3fa0c55@posting.google.com>
	<slrnc7q1ss.1aa.alf@largo.fayauffre.org>
	<cb035744.0404141130.170f51c4@posting.google.com>
	<slrnc7sgat.vp.alf@largo.fayauffre.org>
	<cb035744.0404160442.2f0b1661@posting.google.com>
	<0pydnSB4WYuieuLdRVn-hQ@powergate.ca>
	<tyfbrlkv3ae.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
	<XYmdnVLB9rjbARrdRVn-vg@powergate.ca>
	<tyf7jw8utoo.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
	<c68fj5$7bt$1@news1.wdf.sap-ag.de> <4087D662.6010209@yahoo.com>
	<c6b05h$9om7g$1@ID-88904.news.uni-berlin.de>
	<c6bfl4$9vb1j$1@ID-139865.news.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <c6bsd9$f5l$1@news.eusc.inter.net>

Dave Kuhlman wrote:
> So, arbitrarily complex transformations on the source code with
> the intent of hiding the intension of the source code are good,
> right?

What do you think a C compiler is doing? "But it's still my code, the 
compiler simply allows to run it on a another processor." AOP tries to 
provide transformations so that it is still your code, but that it can 
run in a multitude of contextes (example: single user, servlet engine, 
transaction monitor).

There are other approaches like code generation. But chances are that 
that multiple code generators cannot be combined easily, as each 
precompiler will reject the syntax extensions of the others as syntax 
errors.

Daniel


From tjreedy at udel.edu  Fri Apr 30 01:19:51 2004
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2004 01:19:51 -0400
Subject: Subclasses in Python
References: <mailman.114.1083254390.25742.python-list@python.org><b4a8ffb6.0404291602.4b112acf@posting.google.com>
	<c6sdiq$fk1bl$1@ID-169208.news.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <c6snlf$7g4$1@sea.gmane.org>


"Greg Ewing" <greg at cosc.canterbury.ac.nz> wrote in message
news:c6sdiq$fk1bl$1 at ID-169208.news.uni-berlin.de...
> Thomas Philips wrote:
> > Perfect! But tell me, how did you know to use __name__? I typed
> > dir(object) and dir(Player) in IDLE, and in neither case did __name__
> > show up.
>
> Probably it's an oversight on the part of whoever implemented
> the dir() method for classes. I guess you just have to find
> out things like that by hanging out in c.l.py.:-)

And submit a bug report on sourceforge so some future person will find it
with dir().

tjr






From vincent at visualtrans.de  Tue Apr 13 13:18:07 2004
From: vincent at visualtrans.de (vincent wehren)
Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2004 19:18:07 +0200
Subject: Python crashes - cannot pin it down!
In-Reply-To: <qDUec.75076$Id.1355@news-binary.blueyonder.co.uk>
References: <qDUec.75076$Id.1355@news-binary.blueyonder.co.uk>
Message-ID: <c5h7cf$8td$1@news3.tilbu1.nb.home.nl>

Stevie_mac wrote:
> Figure this!
> 
> ###   Shell1    ###
> 
>>>>from wxPython.wx import *
>>>>mb = wxMessageBox('hello')
> 
> 
> ###   testmb.py ###
> from wxPython.wx import *
> mb = wxMessageBox('hello')
> 
<snipped>
Try changing that to:

from wxPython.wx import *
app = wxPySimpleApp()
app.MainLoop()
wxMessageBox("Hello")

HTH,

Vincent Wehren


From i2Postal2 at postal.i2.com  Fri Apr 16 13:32:53 2004
From: i2Postal2 at postal.i2.com (i2Postal2 at postal.i2.com)
Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2004 12:32:53 -0500
Subject: Report to Sender
Message-ID: <OFAF822891.595372F7-ON86256E78.00606528@postal.i2.com>





Incident Information:-

Database:   c:/lotus/domino/data/mail3.box
Originator: python-list at python.org
Recipients: ang at i2.com
Subject:    Mail Delivery (failure ang at i2.com)
Date/Time:  04/16/2004 12:32:42 PM

Message sent to ang at i2.com was quarantined because it contained content
that has the potential to put i2 at risk.  Please feel free to contact the
intended recipient for options.




From fredrik at pythonware.com  Mon Apr 19 10:59:32 2004
From: fredrik at pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Mon, 19 Apr 2004 16:59:32 +0200
Subject: Tkinter Button command query
References: <bef436e6.0404190527.3d4b2cf6@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <c60pfu$c4m$1@sea.gmane.org>

Paul A. Wilson wrote:

> I'm new to Tkinter programming and am having trouble creating a
> reusable button bar... I want to be able to feed my class a dictionary
> of button names and function names, which the class will make.
>
> My button bar is implemented a Frame subclass, which takes the button
> dictionary as an argument and displays the buttons on the screen:
>
> class OptionsBar(Frame):
>    def __init__(self, buttonDict, parent=None)
>       Frame.__init__(self, parent)
>       parent.someFunction()    # This works fine
>       for (name, command) in buttonDict.items():
>          Button(self, text=name, command=command).pack(side=TOP,
> fill=BOTH)

Tkinter wants the functions, not the names of the functions.  you can use
getattr() to get around this:

    for (name, command) in buttonDict.items():
        command = getattr(parent, command)
        Button(self, text=name, command=command)...

(getattr(obj, "name") is the same as obj.name)

</F>






From rogerb at rogerbinns.com  Sun Apr 18 16:30:57 2004
From: rogerb at rogerbinns.com (Roger Binns)
Date: Sun, 18 Apr 2004 13:30:57 -0700
Subject: using a USB HID device
References: <40827ce3.1151345337@news.xs4all.nl>
	<d7fcf8b4.0404181047.4c57db1c@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <s45bl1-6np.ln1@home.rogerbinns.com>

Samuel Schulenburg wrote:
> wouter at voti.nl (Wouter van Ooijen (www.voti.nl)) wrote in message news:<40827ce3.1151345337 at news.xs4all.nl>...
> > I want to use Python to interface with an USB HID device (not a
>
> I found that USB
> devices do not use this layer, and as a result I am also investigating
> using python to access USB devices. So far it looks like a seperate
> driver along with a interfaceing DLL will needed.

Here is one I made earlier:

http://cvs.sf.net/viewcvs.py/bitpim/bitpim/native/usb/

It is a Python wrapper (using SWIG) around libusb (including libusb-win32).
My BitPim project currently ships using it on Windows, Linux and Mac.

Roger




From jdhunter at ace.bsd.uchicago.edu  Thu Apr 15 08:45:16 2004
From: jdhunter at ace.bsd.uchicago.edu (John Hunter)
Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2004 07:45:16 -0500
Subject: warnings
Message-ID: <m27jwhv28z.fsf@mother.paradise.lost>


In the following

import warnings
warnings.warn('change me')

The warning is issued:

hunter:~/python/test> python test.py
test.py:3: UserWarning: change me
  warnings.warn('change me')


I want to supress the line echo.  Eg, I just want

hunter:~/python/test> python test.py
test.py:3: UserWarning: change me


How do I configure warnings to do this?

Thanks!
John Hunter



From crap1234 at hotmail.com  Mon Apr  5 16:05:10 2004
From: crap1234 at hotmail.com (Stefan Axelsson)
Date: Mon, 05 Apr 2004 22:05:10 +0200
Subject: slightly OT: BUT NEEDs to be said
In-Reply-To: <8b42d1998c978c8c1cddf15c52a1c57b@dizum.com>
References: <lvOdnRJzZ9244ezdRVn-uQ@powergate.ca>
	<8b42d1998c978c8c1cddf15c52a1c57b@dizum.com>
Message-ID: <c4se5n$2klrp3$1@ID-224243.news.uni-berlin.de>

Nomen Nescio wrote:
> Cuddly cartoon characters like the Snake, or various BSD creatures = highly
> acceptable and good.

Well, one shouldn't feed the trolls. (And kudos on a well done one at 
that.) BUT, on the subject of "highly acceptable and good" BSD creatures 
see: http://www.erenkrantz.com/Humor/BSDDaemon.shtml for an encounter 
with at least two people (and I use that term losely) who would beg to 
disagree. If you think "Oxford liberals" are scary... :-)

Stefan,
-- 
Stefan Axelsson  (email at http://www.cs.chalmers.se/~sax)


From sakesun at boonthavorn.com  Fri Apr  9 06:08:13 2004
From: sakesun at boonthavorn.com (Sakesun Roykiattisak)
Date: Fri, 09 Apr 2004 17:08:13 +0700
Subject: Why Activestate Python ?
In-Reply-To: <E1BBslZ-00042p-Cv@mail.python.org>
References: <E1BBslZ-00042p-Cv@mail.python.org>
Message-ID: <4076760D.1090509@boonthavorn.com>

>Apart fromt he fact that they bundle Mark Hammond's Windows Extensions
>with it (in the windows version) - what is to be gained from using
>their distributio instead of the 'normal' one ?

For me, Mostly documents.
Win-html-help, extra documents (PEPs, Dive Into Python, Python HOWTOs, Non-Programmers Tutorial)

It's great start point for newbie like me.





From rkern at ucsd.edu  Thu Apr 29 19:21:37 2004
From: rkern at ucsd.edu (Robert Kern)
Date: Thu, 29 Apr 2004 16:21:37 -0700
Subject: Closures
In-Reply-To: <mailman.130.1083276908.25742.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.130.1083276908.25742.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <c6s2m2$7op$1@news1.ucsd.edu>

Michael Sparks wrote:

> On Thu, 29 Apr 2004, Gustavo Niemeyer wrote:
> 
> 
>>class Closure:
>>    def __init__(self):
>>        self.__dict__ = sys._getframe().f_back.f_locals
> 
> 
> Out of interest how portable is this? Strikes me as extremely useful
> class to have lying around :) The only thing that makes me wonder is the
> access to _getframe...

Well, Guido considers "anything that uses sys._getframe() to be a danger 
to society unless proven innocent," but what does he know? ;-)

http://article.gmane.org/gmane.comp.python.devel/58837

> Michael

-- 
Robert Kern
rkern at ucsd.edu

"In the fields of hell where the grass grows high
  Are the graves of dreams allowed to die."
   -- Richard Harter


From mcfletch at rogers.com  Mon Apr 26 18:44:51 2004
From: mcfletch at rogers.com (Mike C. Fletcher)
Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2004 18:44:51 -0400
Subject: Is there a Python library that packs binary data into one file?
In-Reply-To: <85b54e91.0404261301.69d5c1e9@posting.google.com>
References: <85b54e91.0404261301.69d5c1e9@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <408D90E3.8040700@rogers.com>

Jacob H wrote:

>Hello all,
>
>Today I began writing a utility script that takes given binary files
>and puts them all into one datafile. My idea is to be able to access
>any binary data I want by indexing the datafile, e.g.
>wanted_image_data = datafileobj[IMAGE_DATA]. The purpose is to hide
>external image files from the user in a simple game I'm writing.
>
>Though I have a good idea of how to implement this, before I begin I
>am curious to know if some Python master out there has already come
>out with a library that does the same. Anyone? :)
>  
>
Not quite what you're asking for, but ResourcePackage embeds resources 
automatically in Python files.  If you are py2exe'ing your projects the 
result is that the images are invisible (they are part of the Python 
bytecode files py2exe packs into the exe).  The nice part is the 
automation; you just update the data-file (stored in a sub-package of 
your main game package) and the embedded version is automagically 
updated on next import of the resource package (run of the game).

http://resourcepackage.sf.net/

Have fun,
Mike

_______________________________________
  Mike C. Fletcher
  Designer, VR Plumber, Coder
  http://members.rogers.com/mcfletch/





From padhia at yahoo.com  Thu Apr 29 17:01:18 2004
From: padhia at yahoo.com (P Adhia)
Date: 29 Apr 2004 14:01:18 -0700
Subject: String formatting (%)
References: <e567c03a.0404280035.79d0d973@posting.google.com>
	<e838aa6e.0404290629.364bddc5@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3281a460.0404291301.3c3c647d@posting.google.com>

alloydflanagan at comcast.net (A. Lloyd Flanagan) wrote in message 

Another version of a more compact function would be,

def commafy(s):
    return len(s) > 3 and "%s,%s" % (commafy(s[:-3]), s[-3:]) or s

Note that this function accepts string representation of an integer
(without checks of course).

P Adhia


From roy at panix.com  Wed Apr 21 18:08:01 2004
From: roy at panix.com (Roy Smith)
Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2004 18:08:01 -0400
Subject: CamelCase versus wide_names (Prothon)
References: <UHxfc.9323$dZ1.3740@fed1read04>
	<6e0680ac.0404211252.7f7b4358@posting.google.com>
	<4086DFA7.9736E7D3@alcyone.com>
Message-ID: <roy-15454C.18080121042004@reader2.panix.com>

In article <4086DFA7.9736E7D3 at alcyone.com>,
 Erik Max Francis <max at alcyone.com> wrote:

> Mike wrote:
> 
> > Since Python has removed the need for the ';' character, how about
> > using that as a word separator? It's very easy to type, as it is right
> > next to the 'L' key on a qwerty keyboard.
> > 
> > Here;is;a;test;paragraph.;What;do;you;think?;Is;it;the;greatest;programming;
> > language;invention;since;the
> > ;curly;brace?
> 
> This is a really stellar example of why designing a language by
> committee doesn't work very well ...

Well, we could always try something like...

<variable>
 <name>
  <component>long</component>
  <component>variable</component>
  <component>name</component>
 <name>
</variable>


From rogerb at rogerbinns.com  Sat Apr  3 18:25:35 2004
From: rogerb at rogerbinns.com (Roger Binns)
Date: Sat, 3 Apr 2004 15:25:35 -0800
Subject: Another issue in xmlrpclib
Message-ID: <6ot3k1-12e.ln1@home.rogerbinns.com>

This was a fun problem to track down.  The xmlrpclib._Method
object should do something about __str__/__repr__.

I have some code that prints out variables when an exception
happens, and if anything references one of those _Method
objects, then str/repr is called, which it tries to remote.
The real problem arises when the original exception occurred
doining some XML-RPC, so an exception is printed which when
it hits the _Method object causes another XML-RPC connection
to be made, which has an exception which when printed hits
the _Method object causes another XML-RPC connection to be
made, which has an exception which when printed ... (you get
the idea :-)

I don't know what the exact right solution for this is.
Amongst the possible solutions:

  - Inherit from object, which causes many Python special
    methods (stuff begining with __) to be defined (I am
    using this as it is the easiest)

  - In getattr, refuse to work if the method name starts
    with one or two underlines

  - In ServerProxy.__request filter the methodname

  - Do nothing

This issue could hit in other ways.  For example, if
someone makes a list of XML-RPC methods (via ServerProxy)
and then sorts them, various __cmp__ like functions
would be called and sent to the remote end.

Roger




From contact.see.sig at localhost.localdomain  Fri Apr 16 07:17:48 2004
From: contact.see.sig at localhost.localdomain (Milan =?ISO-8859-15?Q?Holz=E4pfel?=)
Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2004 13:17:48 +0200
Subject: (For gurus) Embed functions in webpages like in PHP?
References: <5eq4l1-9vm.ln1@pilz.hasos.com>
Message-ID: <20040416131748.1c8a6eff.contact.see.sig@localhost.localdomain>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On Fri, 16 Apr 2004 12:38:16 +0200
Robert Ferber <rob at nospam.net> wrote:

[...]
> As far as I've seen, there is no way to embed Python-code in a webpage
> with"<? ?>" or anything equivalent and I don't see any other way to
> solve this problem.
> 
> But maybe somebody else does, I'd apreceate all ideas,
> 
> Thanks a lot

I'm sure you'll find something on the sites wilk posted, but I just
remembered that I recently read an article which is exactly this done
in: <URL:http://www-106.ibm.com/developerworks/web/library/us-gentoo/>
(scroll down to "Technology demo: pytext" if you don't want to read the
whole thing)

I think one should be able to use the "pytext interpreter" as
interpreter for a CGI script. (or use 
"#!/usr/bin/python /path/to/pytext" as first line of the CGI script...
or do whatever, just in case one doesn't know :-) ) 

(If anyone wants all four parts of the article nicely linked on one
page, here it is: <URL:http://www.gentoo.org/proj/en/site.xml>)

But I think you could also use a script which reads the database result
from a file and also does the banner rotation or whatever (so you don't
have your result in the script which is called, but you read the result
from a file nevertheless)

Regards,
Milan

- -- 


Milan Holz?pfel alias jagdfalke alias jag

?ff. GnuPG-Schl?ssel / GnuPG Publiy Key
<URL:http://con.mjh.name/>

GnuPG Fingerabdruck / GnuPG Fingerprint
4C8A 5FAF 5D32 6125 89D1  0CE5 DB0C AF4F 6583 7966


Hinweis:
  Die Domain jagdfalke.net geh?rt mir nicht mehr wirklich.
  Deshalb bitte keine jagdfalke.net-eMail-Adressen mehr
  benutzen. Neue Kontaktm?glichkeiten gibts auf
  <URL:http://con.mjh.name/>, meine neue Domain ist mjh.name.

NOTE:
  I don't really own the domain jagdfalke.net any logner.
  Therefore don't use any jagdfalke.net eMail-addresses
  any more. You can look at <URL:http://con.mjh.name/> for new
  adresses, my new domain is mjh.name.


Hinweis 2:
  Wenn sich hier nicht findet, was in der Absender-Zeile ver-
  sprochen wurde, dann schau mal ein paar Zeilen weiter oben ;-)

Note 2:
  If you can't find what I've promised in the From-line, then
  then have a look at some of the lines above ;-) 

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.2.4 (GNU/Linux)

iD8DBQFAf8Dc2wyvT2WDeWYRAnL4AJ9ZwW2VVNDwmliE5y2mZjOh1nayUgCgtezc
SaYvtxHSFSDSqb8H5goGpQM=
=ZOzo
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----


From bram at nospam.sara.nl  Mon Apr 26 09:04:28 2004
From: bram at nospam.sara.nl (Bram Stolk)
Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2004 15:04:28 +0200
Subject: interfacing to a remote excel app
Message-ID: <20040426150428.69010a3c@pistache.sara.nl>

pyHello,


Google helped me find a nice package to interface python with MS Excel.
"win32all", or sometimes called by the name "pywin32".

http://starship.python.net/crew/mhammond/

However, this win32all extension seems to be specifically built for the
windows platform only.

What could I use if I want to interface to excel from a python interpreter
running on a remote UNIX machine?

The specific task I want to accomplish is as follows:
I want python on UNIX to be able to make selections in excel (highlight rows).
Also, I want to have changes in the selected (highlighted) items in excel
to be communicated to the python running on UNIX.

What would be the best way to do this?

Thanks,

  Bram

PS: A possible approach would be to run two interpreters, one on both
platforms, and have the MS python talk to excel. However, I would like a
solution with low-impact to the MS platform, and want to get away without
having to install python and win32all on the MS machine.

-- 
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 Bram Stolk, VR Engineer.
 SARA Academic Computing Services Amsterdam, PO Box 94613, 1090 GP  AMSTERDAM
 email: bram at nospam.sara.nl   Phone +31-20-5923059  Fax +31-20-6683167

"For the costs of subsidized agriculture in the EU, we can have all 56 million
 European cows fly around the world. First Class." - J. Norberg
------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From edcogburn at hotpop.com  Thu Apr  1 06:46:13 2004
From: edcogburn at hotpop.com (Ed Cogburn)
Date: Thu, 01 Apr 2004 06:46:13 -0500
Subject: [OT] Top posting is a PITA [was : Prothon Prototypes vs Python
 Classes]
In-Reply-To: <106lrnu8g89iq75@corp.supernews.com>
References: <569c605ld1cj8fc1emolk08ete0s1prls1@4ax.com>	<v0r9c.38988$cx5.22021@fed1read04>	<106di86neu1qh4d@news.supernews.com>	<AHF9c.49048$cx5.33872@fed1read04>	<c4akqh$gml$1@panix2.panix.com>	<Sz8ac.68272$cx5.62681@fed1read04>	<mailman.115.1080652873.20120.python-list@python.org>	<4069a001$0$4237$afc38c87@news.easynet.co.uk>	<4069e9d9$0$8915$636a15ce@news.free.fr>
	<106lrnu8g89iq75@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <c4gvdd$r0j$1@sea.gmane.org>

R Baumann wrote:
> one follows the "standard" of the newsgroup one is participating in.


No such thing, since there is no way to enforce these "standards", and the 
bottom-posters will always bottom post, and the top-posters will always top 
post no matter where they are.


> Complaining whether one top posts or bottom posts is just a waste of
> time, and you, me, we, all know it.


Not always, sure there are the smart asses who top-post just to annoy people, 
but a lot of top-posters do that because they are newbies and don't know that 
it annoys so many people.  Often they just need to find out how to change 
their reader program's default, or simply discover that their reader does have 
such an option.


> this is more irritating than whether one is "posting in the approved manner".


No it isn't, as long as someone sticks "OT" in the subject line, I don't mind 
anyone talking about something else.  If its identified as off topic, I can 
always skip it.  Top-posting on the other hand, is annoying because its 
unnatural for most of us.  Most of us may not say anything, and most of the 
time its not "serious", but IMO, top-posting is far more irritating then OT posts.


> This thread was renamed to a different subject, but that was a
> half-dozen rants later in the thread than it needed to be.


Why complain about this when you're obviously still participating in this 
thread two *dozen* posts after "OT" was inserted?


> Get my point?  Naw, too much to expect.  I've wasted both your time and my
> time with my own rant against your rants. :-)


Yep, everyone has their pet peeve, but isn't it kinda obvious by now that 
there are a *lot* more people peeved about top-posting than there are peeved 
at OT posts.  :)


> A lot of you guys seem far more interested in starting arguments and keeping
> them running, than you are discussing the pros and cons of Python and
> providing helpful answers.  Rein in your egos, no one, and I include myself,
> has anything helpful to contribute in this kind of  "dust-up".


I've seen this complaint a thousand times too, and it never makes a 
difference.  You're basically asking people to stop being human, which is why 
we designated "OT" as a warning for others that the conversation has drifted 
far afield.  However, we never did adopt "TP" so top-posters could warn 
others, mainly because top-posting is not seen as inevitable, irresistible 
human behavior, it is of course simply an example of laziness (or ignorance), 
nothing more.  While laziness is inevitable in some humans, its still not 
accepted behavior.  People arguing with one another is perfectly natural, and 
has been going on for millenia, but for most of the world, its written 
conversations are done top-to-bottom, not bottom-to-top.




From harry.g.george at boeing.com  Thu Apr 22 12:46:14 2004
From: harry.g.george at boeing.com (Harry George)
Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2004 16:46:14 GMT
Subject: Convert hexadecimal string to binary
References: <b0457a31.0404220706.65a7735c@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <xqxwu486jvt.fsf@cola2.ca.boeing.com>

ekoome at yahoo.com (Eric) writes:

> Guys,
> I have the following hexadecimal string - '\xff\xff\xff' which i need
> to convert to binary.
> 
> How would i go about doing this?
> 
> Eric

Assuming you mean the result is a string of "1" and "0" chars, here is
a mechanism.  We use a lookup to avoid converting to and from internal
numbers.

#---x is the data---
x='\xff\xff\xff'
#---notice it is actually a sequence of 8-bit bytes--- 
#---generate a dictionary of all 256 values and their binary codings---
bits={'\x00':'00000000',
      '\x01':'00000001',
      ..........
      '\xff':'11111111'}

#---collect answer in buffer---
s=StringIO.StringIO()
for byte in x:
    s.write(bits[byte])

#---report result---
print s.getvalue()





-- 
harry.g.george at boeing.com
6-6M21 BCA CompArch Design Engineering
Phone: (425) 342-0007


From henkjan at xs4all.nl  Sat Apr 24 14:12:59 2004
From: henkjan at xs4all.nl (Henk-Jan de Jong)
Date: Sat, 24 Apr 2004 20:12:59 +0200
Subject: deleting items within a for loop - mutable indices
References: <4089cb21$1_2@mk-nntp-2.news.uk.tiscali.com>
Message-ID: <408aae2a$0$557$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>

Hello,

this should work:

for i in deletion_list:
    x.remove(i)

Matuka

"SnuSnu" <snusnu at tiscali.co.uk> wrote in message
news:4089cb21$1_2 at mk-nntp-2.news.uk.tiscali.com...
> Okay - here's a (probably) really easy question:
>
> I can't do the following, so what's the best way to handle this
> case of wanting to delete within a loop?
>
> x = [0,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8]
> deletion_list = [2,7,8]
>
> for i in deletion_list:
>   del x[i]
>
> This obviously doesn't work because the list keeps changing
> each time I delete something, so the indices are no longer valid
> after the first delete (so I get an IndexError on teh last delete).
>
> My hack is to do this first (which makes sure that the higher indices
> are deleted first), but this is not very elegant or quick:
>
> deletion_list.sort()
> deletion_list.reverse()
> # BTW: It's a shame I can't do deletion_list.sort().reverse()
>
> Is there a simple solution?
>
> (It would be nice to do something like
>   del x[2,7,8]           # or..
>   del [*deletion_list]
> )
>
> Thanks.
>




From rogerb at rogerbinns.com  Thu Apr 29 22:26:20 2004
From: rogerb at rogerbinns.com (Roger Binns)
Date: Thu, 29 Apr 2004 19:26:20 -0700
Subject: Don't understand wxPython ids
References: <408ed938$0$17263$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
	<BOEjc.12559$eZ5.4366@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>
	<1a34m1-fml.ln1@home.rogerbinns.com>
	<c6q1dp$et6ah$1@ID-169208.news.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <c3q8m1-fta.ln1@home.rogerbinns.com>

Greg Ewing wrote:
> Giving an identifier to a command so that it can be
> invoked in multiple ways is a good idea, but it would
> be much more Pythonic if a *name* could be used as the
> identifier rather than a number.

That is kinda what my code is doing :-)  The name just
happens to be a static class member mapped to an integer.

> Use of a number here seems to be entirely the result
> of blindly carrying over a feature of the C++-oriented
> API into Python.

There has been much debate about this on the wxPython lists.
One school of thought is to make wxPython as "Pythonic" as
possible, with its own set of documentation and own
community.  The fact that there is a C++ library underneath
would be a minor implementation detail.

A second school of thought (to which I belong) is that wxPython
should stick to the C++ API closely unless changes significantly
improve developer productivity.  The means that wxPython
remains a member of the wxWidgets community, the standard
wxWidgets documentation remains the same and appropriate,
and it is easy to translate C++/Perl/other language wxWidgets
programs into wxPython and vice versa even for the people
who do not know the languages.

Of course there is no "right answer" as to what is best,
and ultimately it is up to Robin and his good taste.  At
the moment wxPython is largely in the second camp, with
some amount of the former present.  Some people have
implemented stuff in the former camp on top of wxPython
(eg wax).

People are of course welcome to criticise wxWidgets, but
as someone who as actually done programs on multiple
different platforms and GUI toolkits, I am very impressed.
I'll listen to people who have actually written something
that runs on several platforms and operating systems first.

Roger




From lbates at swamisoft.com  Wed Apr 28 15:17:39 2004
From: lbates at swamisoft.com (Larry Bates)
Date: Wed, 28 Apr 2004 14:17:39 -0500
Subject: Using C libraries
References: <mailman.92.1083177600.25742.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <xdOdneT55ZTMng3dRVn-gw@comcast.com>

Depends on what you mean by "difficulties".  I've interfaced
Python with lots of different .DLL libraries.  The "tricky"
part is getting enough information about the proper data
structures for calling the external functions.  Much study
of struct module is normally required.  And you need either
my DLLInterface code:

http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Cookbook/Python/Recipe/146847

or you can use Thomas Heller's ctypes module:

http://starship.python.net/crew/theller/ctypes/

Or you can roll your own...

Larry Bates
Syscon, Inc.

"Laughlin, Joseph V" <Joseph.V.Laughlin at boeing.com> wrote in message
news:mailman.92.1083177600.25742.python-list at python.org...
Has anyone had any difficulties using C libraries / data structures with
python?  Are there any things I need to be aware of?

Joe Laughlin
Phantom Works - Integrated Technology Development Labs
The Boeing Company







From fredrik at pythonware.com  Tue Apr 20 02:21:32 2004
From: fredrik at pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 08:21:32 +0200
Subject: Tkinter: Selecting one item in each of two listboxes
References: <c61j4n$h7s$1@sea.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <c62fgm$5ub$1@sea.gmane.org>

Jeffrey Barish wrote:

> I have an application that produces two listboxes.  I would like to be
> able to select one of the items in the first listbox and one of the
> items in the second listbox.  However, when I make my selection in the
> second listbox, the selected item in the first listbox gets deselected.
> Is there a way to do this?  I tried setting selectmode to MULTIPLE, but
> that option only allows me to select multiple items in one of the
> listboxes (both of which get deselected when I make a selection in the
> second listbox).

see the discussion of "exportselection" on the listbox patterns page:

http://www.pythonware.com/library/tkinter/introduction/listbox.htm
=> patterns

</F>






From bug-gs at ghostscript.com  Tue Apr  6 01:43:49 2004
From: bug-gs at ghostscript.com (bug-gs at ghostscript.com)
Date: Tue, 6 Apr 2004 14:43:49 +0900
Subject: hi
Message-ID: <200404060539.OAA25306@tcimdv001.tonami.mec.mei.co.jp>

------------------  Virus Warning Message (on mail1)

Found virus WORM_LOVGATE.W in file body.scr
The uncleanable file is deleted.

---------------------------------------------------------
-------------- next part --------------
The message contains Unicode characters and has been sent as a binary attachment.

-------------- next part --------------

------------------  Virus Warning Message (on mail1)

body.scr is removed from here because it contains a virus.

---------------------------------------------------------

From gabriel.cooper at mediapulse.com  Tue Apr 13 15:33:22 2004
From: gabriel.cooper at mediapulse.com (Gabriel Cooper)
Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2004 15:33:22 -0400
Subject: Trouble installing Python on RedHat 9 
Message-ID: <407C4082.6040503@mediapulse.com>

I have this old PC I'm using as a development box to emulate my work 
environment, only I don't know much about the admin side of linux, so 
I'm having very newbie-type problems getting started. I have red hat 9 
on an old PC and I'm trying to install an updated version of python. 
Currently I think it has python 2.2 but I wanted to update to 2.3 for 
the sake of knowing I could do it, so I downloaded the tarball, 
uncompressed it, then ran ``./configure --prefix=/usr`` to compile it 
such that it would overwrite the 2.2 install.

Everything went OK with configure so I ran make, which died giving parse 
errors in some tk file. After some reading some I came across this:

"If you're compiling from source on Red Hat 9, RH9 compiles Tcl/Tk as 
UCS-4, but Python still defaults to UCS-2. You can either use

              ./configure --enable-unicode=ucs4

with Python, or you can try Anthony Baxter's patched version of Tcl/Tk"

So I tried that, along with my prefix= parameter but I still get the 
same error. I grabbed my red hat 9 disks and found an RPM labelled 
"tk-something" so I installed that and tried again, but got the same 
errors (or what appear to be the same errors).

Anyway, here's a small snippet of what ``make`` throws at me:

[...]
gcc -pthread -DNDEBUG -g -O3 -Wall -Wstrict-prototypes -fPIC 
-fno-strict-aliasing -DWITH_APPINIT=1 -I/usr/X11R6/include -I. 
-I/root/packages/Python-2.3.3/./Include -I/usr/local/include 
-I/root/packages/Python-2.3.3/Include -I/root/packages/Python-2.3.3 -c 
/root/packages/Python-2.3.3/Modules/_tkinter.c -o 
build/temp.linux-i686-2.3/_tkinter.o
In file included from /root/packages/Python-2.3.3/Modules/_tkinter.c:71:
/usr/include/tk.h:83:29: X11/Xlib.h: No such file or directory
In file included from /root/packages/Python-2.3.3/Modules/_tkinter.c:71:
/usr/include/tk.h:581: parse error before "Bool"
/usr/include/tk.h:583: parse error before "event"
/usr/include/tk.h:584: parse error before "root"
/usr/include/tk.h:585: parse error before "subwindow"
/usr/include/tk.h:586: parse error before "time"
/usr/include/tk.h:586: `time' redeclared as different kind of symbol
/usr/include/time.h:184: previous declaration of `time'
/usr/include/tk.h:591: parse error before "same_screen"
/usr/include/tk.h:597: parse error before "Bool"
[...]

Any ideas? If I just need to RTFM, let me know which "M"! ;)

Thanks!



From fredrik at pythonware.com  Wed Apr 21 12:43:40 2004
From: fredrik at pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2004 18:43:40 +0200
Subject: Stupid Regex Question
References: <c667m3$6up$1@sea.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <c668b5$8s9$1@sea.gmane.org>

Jonas Galvez wrote:

> I'm feeling dumb:
>
> str = "<tag>text<innertag>moretext</innertag></tag><tag>text</tag>"
>
> How can I get a list like ["text<innertag>moretext</innertag>",
> "text"] using regexes? I'm starting to believe it's not possible.

print re.findall("<tag>(.*?)</tag>", str)

</F>






From johnc_tan at hotmail.com  Fri Apr 16 20:28:00 2004
From: johnc_tan at hotmail.com (John)
Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2004 20:28:00 -0400
Subject: Initializing Python in Optimized mode from C++
References: <dd7b0c71.0404161034.3173e132@posting.google.com>
	<4080635b$0$46515$39cecf19@news.twtelecom.net>
Message-ID: <kS_fc.35827$vF3.2064041@news20.bellglobal.com>

"Rick Ratzel" <rick.ratzel at magma-da.com> wrote in message
news:4080635b$0$46515$39cecf19 at news.twtelecom.net...
>     set Py_OptimizeFlag to 1 for -O, and 2 for -OO.  Do this prior to
> calling Py_Initialize();
>
>     You can also improve your startup time by setting
> Py_NoSiteFlag = 1...assuming you don't need to load site.py
>
>     for example:
>
> extern int Py_OptimizeFlag;
> extern int Py_NoSiteFlag;
> ...
> if( !Py_IsInitialized() ) {
>     Py_OptimizeFlag = 2;
>     Py_NoSiteFlag = 1;
>     Py_Initialize();
> }

I was viewing this thread from Google groups and didn't see your response
before I replied.  This is exactly what I was looking for...thanks!  Out of
curiosity, what does the -OO flag do on top of the normal optimizations?




From loic at yermat.net1.nerim.net  Thu Apr 22 15:11:41 2004
From: loic at yermat.net1.nerim.net (Yermat)
Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2004 21:11:41 +0200
Subject: Proper Way of checking for a collections class
In-Reply-To: <mailman.924.1082655584.20120.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.924.1082655584.20120.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <c695b3$1kc8$1@biggoron.nerim.net>

Robert Brewer a ?crit :

> Gary Coulbourne wrote:
> 
>>I've been trying to find a good idiom for testing if the input to a
>>function is one of the collections classes... the best I 
>>could do is this:
>>
>>if hasattr(thing_to_test, '__iter__'):
>>    ...
> 
> 
> The best way depends upon (and mirrors) exactly what you want to do with
> those classes. If you're going to call iter(thing), then the above is
> fine. If instead you want sequences, try operator.isSequenceType,
> etcetera.
> 
> 
> FuManChu
> 

I don't think so ! For example, String has no __iter__ method but is 
iterable !
I would do :

try:
     it = iter(thing_to_test)
except TypeError:
     it = None

if it:
     for var in it:
         do stuff...

-- 
Yermat



From matt.warren at zoom.co.uk  Thu Apr  1 04:56:23 2004
From: matt.warren at zoom.co.uk (Matt Warren)
Date: 1 Apr 2004 01:56:23 -0800
Subject: win32com support (follow up to previous thread)
Message-ID: <500826d0.0404010156.737ab682@posting.google.com>

Does this mean that there isn't a way to put a button into Visual
Studio 6.0 and  then have it execute python code all purely done in
python.

I.e could I write a python program that puts a button in the msdev
toolbar like the outlook.py example and then when its pushed reformats
the current document, using the Application.Document.SelectAll() com
methods or something like that.

Cheers

Matt

>> Generally, you can do a QueryInterface for the object.  However, if
>> the object does not support IDispatch, you will haver trouble - we
>> don't support arbitrary interfaces when calling them, only
>> implementing them. 
>> 
>> ob = ob._obj_.QueryInterface(
>> 
>
>I take it the chances of this working are slim to none ?
>
>> 
>> The GUID must be for a type library.  If you run "makepy.py -i",
then
>> you will get a list of all valid typelibs you can use, and the
params
>> for it.
>> 
>
>Bum!
>
>Perhaps I should look at implementing the actual addin in C++ and
then
>embed python into it so that most the work can be done by that.  
>
>Thanks for your help anyway
>
>Rich


From maxm at mxm.dk  Fri Apr  2 07:00:24 2004
From: maxm at mxm.dk (Max M)
Date: Fri, 02 Apr 2004 14:00:24 +0200
Subject: Prothon, metaclasses, Zope [Was: A 'Python like' language]
In-Reply-To: <m%1bc.100747$cx5.75670@fed1read04>
References: <95aa1afa.0403272243.78d60724@posting.google.com>
	<slrnc6crti.dit.joe@gate.notcharles.ca>
	<eAF9c.48978$cx5.17895@fed1read04> <c4fq68$mk7$1@panix3.panix.com>
	<S7Lac.87628$cx5.10253@fed1read04>
	<95aa1afa.0404010017.2f1683b8@posting.google.com>
	<m%1bc.100747$cx5.75670@fed1read04>
Message-ID: <406d55c6$0$206$edfadb0f@dread12.news.tele.dk>

Mark Hahn wrote:

>>it is difficult to give credit to people liking tabs and
> 
> As far as top-posting, I am trying to improve, it's just hard to change my
> reply style after using it for 30 years without getting any complaints
> before. I feel like I'm in a twilight-zone episode.

Actually I am too. There is some interresting dynamics going on here.

Appart from that Brandon guy, I have never experienced such a reaction 
before in this group. I hope it is just a fluke.


regards Max M


From paul at prescod.net  Sun Apr  4 14:14:40 2004
From: paul at prescod.net (Paul Prescod)
Date: Sun, 04 Apr 2004 11:14:40 -0700
Subject: Newbie TypeError problem
In-Reply-To: <cbcc74f8.0404010217.fb4d7a2@posting.google.com>
References: <cbcc74f8.0404010217.fb4d7a2@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <40705090.7010100@prescod.net>

Francis Moore wrote:

>   File "D:\Python23\lib\xml\sax\expatreader.py", line 111, in
> prepareParser
>     self._parser.SetBase(source.getSystemId())
> TypeError: SetBase() argument 1 must be string, not member_descriptor
> 
> Seems to be failing on the line:
> 
> parser.parse(file)

Please insert this line into your program:

print type(file)

Perhaps the type is something other than you expect?

  Paul Prescod





From deetsNOSPAM at web.de  Fri Apr  2 06:45:57 2004
From: deetsNOSPAM at web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Fri, 02 Apr 2004 13:45:57 +0200
Subject: Travelling salesman variation in python
References: <slrnc6on9h.spl.erlendga@tva.ifi.uio.no>
Message-ID: <c4jk1t$2k9keu$1@ID-111250.news.uni-berlin.de>

You could go for local search. First, create a randow tour. Then select a
neighborhood. Find the local minimum for that neighborhood. Do this as
often as you like.

A typical neighborhood for tsps are four nodes where two of them are
adjacent in your tour. Then  exchange the nodes so that they still form a
tours. If that has less costs, keep it that way.

--n1--n2--
--n3--n4--

becomes

--n1\/n2--
--n3/\n4--

-- 
Regards,

Diez B. Roggisch


From peter at engcorp.com  Mon Apr  5 12:12:52 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Mon, 05 Apr 2004 12:12:52 -0400
Subject: design by contract versus doctest
In-Reply-To: <407174ea$0$5066$4d4ebb8e@news.nl.uu.net>
References: <407174ea$0$5066$4d4ebb8e@news.nl.uu.net>
Message-ID: <T7Sdnf23r-IZGOzdRVn-sA@powergate.ca>

aku wrote:

> Isn't it so, that by applying DBC, a lot of unittests can be
> made redundant?

How would you propose verifying that your code will work if you
don't run tests before you ship?

Don't say "manual testing"...

-Peter


From mlh at furu.idi.ntnu.no  Sat Apr 24 11:15:45 2004
From: mlh at furu.idi.ntnu.no (Magnus Lie Hetland)
Date: Sat, 24 Apr 2004 15:15:45 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Regexp optimization question
References: <slrnc8gal3.9da.mlh@furu.idi.ntnu.no>
	<c6a8ku$jga$1@newsreader2.netcologne.de>
	<slrnc8ieul.7j7.mlh@furu.idi.ntnu.no>
	<kblic.15952$hR1.8421@fe2.texas.rr.com>
Message-ID: <slrnc8l151.788.mlh@furu.idi.ntnu.no>

In article <kblic.15952$hR1.8421 at fe2.texas.rr.com>, Paul McGuire
wrote: [snip]
>
> pyparsing supports this kind of text skipping, using scanString()
> instead of parseString().

I already have a working implementation in Python -- if this isn't
more efficient (I'm just talking about the tokenization part) I don't
think there would be much gain in switching.

(IIRC, the pyparsing docs say that pyparsing is slow for complex
grammars, at least.)

BTW: I have not done some experiments with Plex with lots of regular
expressiosn; simply compiling a pattern with 500 alternatives took
forever, whereas re.compile was quite fast.

So... If I can somehow be content with only getting one match per
position, I guess re is the best solution.

Or I could implement something in C (Pyrex)... (Or use something like
pybison.)

-- 
Magnus Lie Hetland              "Wake up!"  - Rage Against The Machine
http://hetland.org              "Shut up!"  - Linkin Park


From jepler at unpythonic.net  Sun Apr  4 14:24:26 2004
From: jepler at unpythonic.net (Jeff Epler)
Date: Sun, 4 Apr 2004 13:24:26 -0500
Subject: Processes with strange behavoir
In-Reply-To: <c4pgp1$a51$06$1@news.t-online.com>
References: <c4pgp1$a51$06$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <20040404182426.GE3455@unpythonic.net>

"exit" -> doesn't do anything
"exit()" -> does something

Jeff



From See_my at Signature.com.invalid  Tue Apr 20 05:17:44 2004
From: See_my at Signature.com.invalid (Tuxtrax)
Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 09:17:44 GMT
Subject: emacs for OS X
Message-ID: <See_my-BB1217.02175320042004@news.verizon.net>

Hi all

My editor of choice on linux for python, bar none, is xemacs. I love the 
python mode that detects a python file and handles indentation and 
coloration for me automagically.

I have been using a powerbook for a while now, and I finally found emacs 
for aqua in OS X Jaguar (10.2.8). I downloaded it from porkrind.com. The 
version of emacs is 21.3 I believe. Anyway, not only does it *not* 
detect python files automatically, but it tries to use fundamental mode 
to handle them which is a pain in the ass. I want my coloring and 
indentation back, damn it all!

I found python-mode.el in the python distribution folder, but not only 
do I have no clue as to what to do with it, I can't find an emacs folder 
or a .emac file. Just the emac program. Any help with this would be 
greatly appreciated. If you have overcome this yourself I especially 
want to hear from you.

In other news.....

I have a code question for you all. This one is a real trip. I am trying 
to use NNTPLIB to download just the message numbers and "from" fields 
for any specified number of messages I want, from 1 to 10,000. So far so 
good. But when I play by the rules, I get unpredictable results. If I 
ask for 20 from headers I get one. If I ask for 500, I get a couple. If 
I ask for 6000, one time I might get 500, the next time I might get 
2,300. It is very frustrating. Here is the code soundbite:

response, number_of_messages, first_available_message, 
last_available_message, groupname = n.group(newsgroup)

###############
# Do we need to create run time files from server download?
# This section takes care of it if it needs to be done.

if dbuild_flag == 1 or fexist(database_shelve+".db") == 0:

# Retrieve and print From: information
# The NNTPlib xhdr routine returns a list of nested sublists. Each 
# sulist contains a pair - message number, requested header in string
# form.
    
    message_request = getinput("\nHow many posts should I be interested 
in? [max 10,000]")

    if int(message_request) > int(number_of_messages):
       print "\nRequest exceeds current available message count. 
Adjusting to %s posts" % number_of_messages
       message_request = number_of_messages
    elif int(message_request) > 10000:
       print "\nRequest exceeds program capacity. Assuming max of 10,000 
posts, and continuing ...."
       message_request = "10000"      
    
      
    last_message = str(int(first_available_message) + 
int(message_request))
    
    stringrequest = first_available_message+"-"+last_message
    
    print "\nRetrieving list of first %s newsgroup participants" % 
message_request
    print "\nI'm working ..............."
    
# This is what should work reliably and is not:

response, poster = n.xhdr("from", stringrequest)

##################

Now when I make my xhdr request using the full range of messages as told 
to me by:

response, number_of_messages, first_available_message, 
last_available_message, groupname = n.group(newsgroup)

by changing:

stringrequest = first_available_message+"-"+last_message

to:

stringrequest = first_available_message+"-"+last_available_message

I get reliable results every time. Anyone care to help me on this one? 
It simply makes no sense that I should be able to get reliable results 
only when I ask for all 48,000 "from" message headers available from my 
newsgroup of choice. I have verified, by the way, that last_message is a 
properly formed string in the format needed by xhdr.

thanks, and best regards,

Mathew

-- 
ROT 13 this address to mail me:

bar jbeq abg guerr; uvtu qrfreg zna, gura nqq - ng lnubb qbg pbz.


From bokr at oz.net  Tue Apr 27 16:09:42 2004
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 27 Apr 2004 20:09:42 GMT
Subject: Regexp optimization question
References: <slrnc8gal3.9da.mlh@furu.idi.ntnu.no>
	<c69b42$9f6eq$1@ID-99293.news.uni-berlin.de>
	<slrnc8iejt.7j7.mlh@furu.idi.ntnu.no>
	<c6brgc$a70l0$1@ID-99293.news.uni-berlin.de>
	<slrnc8j7p6.s9i.mlh@furu.idi.ntnu.no>
Message-ID: <c6mem6$ucp$0@216.39.172.122>

On Fri, 23 Apr 2004 22:56:38 +0000 (UTC), mlh at furu.idi.ntnu.no (Magnus Lie Hetland) wrote:

>In article <c6brgc$a70l0$1 at ID-99293.news.uni-berlin.de>, William Park wrote:
>[snip]
>>
>>Since you want both the matched strings and their locations in file, you
>>pretty much have to this manually, one by one.
>
>Well -- that's more or less what I'm doing. (Or -- I can get the match
>objects all at once, of course, using finditer.)
>
>I guess I'll have to look elsewhere for performance improvements. Hm.
>
Have you tried something like this?

 >>> s = 'asdad foobaz rhubarb pie'
 >>> import re
 >>> rxo = re.compile(r'(foo|bar|baz)')
 >>> rxo.split(s)[1::2]
 ['foo', 'baz', 'bar']

Regards,
Bengt Richter


From martin at v.loewis.de  Sat Apr 10 04:28:37 2004
From: martin at v.loewis.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?=22Martin_v=2E_L=F6wis=22?=)
Date: Sat, 10 Apr 2004 10:28:37 +0200
Subject: print u"\u0432": why is this so hard? UnciodeEncodeError
In-Reply-To: <eppstein-66505E.08524709042004@news.service.uci.edu>
References: <cpa4qrvb529.fsf@cabernet.nelson.monkey.org>
	<c52lu9$j8c$03$1@news.t-online.com>
	<eppstein-55126D.00202008042004@news.service.uci.edu>
	<c546v4$bi5$02$1@news.t-online.com>
	<mailman.474.1081470992.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<eppstein-E7E585.00091009042004@news.service.uci.edu>
	<c55tkv$3s4$05$2@news.t-online.com>
	<eppstein-66505E.08524709042004@news.service.uci.edu>
Message-ID: <c58b7h$i95$04$1@news.t-online.com>

David Eppstein wrote:
> A system that requires me to manually set the LANG environment variable 
> is no better than a system that requires me to manually define an 
> encoding once in Python.  

Perhaps: depending on your criteria to judge "no better".
It does demonstrate that Python can be made to determine the terminal's
encoding, without changing any kind of Python or C source code.

Regards,
Martin



From claird at lairds.com  Sat Apr  3 18:02:26 2004
From: claird at lairds.com (Cameron Laird)
Date: Sat, 03 Apr 2004 23:02:26 -0000
Subject: emergent/swarm/evolutionary systems etc
References: <c4aeq8$92a$1@hercules.btinternet.com>
	<c4ccs2$l9j$1@news.service.uci.edu>
	<c4hjp4$dg6$1@sparta.btinternet.com>
	<c4ibr0$ngm$1@news.service.uci.edu>
Message-ID: <106ugk2brruis3a@corp.supernews.com>

In article <c4ibr0$ngm$1 at news.service.uci.edu>,
Josiah Carlson  <jcarlson at uci.edu> wrote:
>> rules.  Given that I have only a basic foothold on the language, does
>> anybody foresee difficulties for me learning enough to impliment simple and
>> experimentally flexible sim-city style simulations (minus fancy graphics and
>> llamas) in no more than 2 months (to allow for time to conduct actual
>> experiments + field observations etc)?  I would be able to engender aid from
>> various staff, and the university library should carry titles on the
>> subject.  Failing that, I could do it the old fashioned way and buy a how-to
>> book, but I'd like some opinions on the difficulty of the goal from people
>> who've already trancended the non-programmer/programmer barrier.
>
>
>Two months is a pretty tight schedule.  If you're on your toes, I would 
>bet you could learn enough of the langauge to support your ideas in 2 
>months.  Actually programming the thing in 2 months; I wouldn't be able 
>to make that kind of judgement about your abilities.
			.
			.
			.
Bluntly, I'd bet against it.  There's a daunting amount
of new material you'll need to learn.  My advice:  we can
help you refine your project so that the computing part is
less overwhelming.

'You read von Thunen, by the way?
-- 

Cameron Laird <claird at phaseit.net>
Business:  http://www.Phaseit.net


From jcarlson at uci.edu  Sat Apr  3 21:18:57 2004
From: jcarlson at uci.edu (Josiah Carlson)
Date: Sat, 03 Apr 2004 18:18:57 -0800
Subject: OT (was Re: But it still doesn't explain the joke)
In-Reply-To: <406F3C29.6030504@freedom.place>
References: <mailman.189.1080759511.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<kmjsj1-89u.ln1@snout.lairds.org> <c4glmq$j1i$1@swifty.westend.com>
	<c4h6ad$lu0$1@panix1.panix.com>
	<106o7vn56fgmt85@corp.supernews.com>
	<XoWdnevUOvXsu_HdRVn-tA@powergate.ca>
	<406F3C29.6030504@freedom.place>
Message-ID: <c4nrgo$a98$1@news.service.uci.edu>

> The father is put in an awkward position of having to explain how he is 
> not a traitor to his country of birth.

Not necessarily, the whole "under god" clause, that has caused basically 
all of the legal issues in the last few decades, is the result of 
McCarthy-era foolishness.
http://www.religioustolerance.org/nat_pled1.htm
Really, he's standing up for his child's rights.  Had that clause not 
been there, this lawsuit (and other similar ones) would not have even 
been brought to court.

Bush invades Iraq (killing thousands of innocents), lies about his 
reasons for it, gets caught in his lie, and lies some more.  Oh, and 
he's currently up for reelection.

You tell me, who'se the traitor?

  - Josiah


From ajw140NO at SPAMyork.ac.uk  Thu Apr 29 13:01:22 2004
From: ajw140NO at SPAMyork.ac.uk (Andrew Wilkinson)
Date: Thu, 29 Apr 2004 18:01:22 +0100
Subject: ANN: PyLinda 0.1
Message-ID: <c6rcd0$3hv$2@pump1.york.ac.uk>

PyLinda 0.1

By Andrew Wilkinson <aw at cs dot york dot ac dot uk>

Contents
--------

1. Introduction
2. Installation
3. Using Linda
4. Known Problems
5. Contact
6. License

1. Introduction
---------------

Linda is an widely studied distributed computing environment, centered
around the notion of a tuple space. A tuple space is a bag (also called a
multi-set) of tuples. A tuple is an ordered, typed chunk of data. Tuple
spaces exist independently of processes in the system, and the data placed
into a tuple space also exist independently. See "Generative communication
in Linda" (1985) and "Multiple tuple spaces in Linda" both by David
Gelernter for more information on Linda.

PyLinda is a simple implementation of a linda system, however it also
includes several of the more recently proposed extensions to Linda in the
form of multiple tuple spaces, garbage collection, sane non-blocking
primitives and bulk tuple operations.

2. Installation
---------------

To install simply unpack the tarball, and execute 'python setup.py install'.

PyLinda requires a Python 2.3+ and has only been tested on Linux and
Solaris, however it should be possible for it to other operating systems.
It may be possible for the server and some client programs to run under
Windows, however since it does not support 'fork' several of the included
examples will not work.

3. Using Linda
--------------

First a server must be started - 'linda_server.py'.

Then a client program must be started, the simplest is just the python
interactive interpreter.

bash$ python
>>> import linda
>>> linda.connect()
>>> linda.universe._out((1,2,3))

Now quit that interpreter, and start a new one...

bash$ python
>>> import linda
>>> linda.connect()
>>> linda.universe._in((int, int, int))
(1, 2, 3)

If you want to add a new computer to the linda network simply run
'linda_server.p -c<ip address or dns name>' where the computer you supply
is already running a linda server.

4. Known Problems
-----------------

 * The actual implementation is quite slow. The process of storing tuples is
slow and uses a large amount of memory, this could probably be fixed by
rewriting that bit in C.
 * No support for the eval primitive.
 * Only built in types (and tuplespace references) can be included in
tuples. This will change in the future, and is the subject of my PhD.
 * Documentation is very thin and could do with improving. People with some
knowlege of Linda should not have a problem using PyLinda however.

5. Contact
----------

All the latest news and information about PyLinda can be found at
http://www-users.cs.york.ac.uk/~aw/pylinda.
Comments, suggestions and bug reports are all welcome at aw at cs dot york
dot ac dot uk

6. License
----------
For full details of the license see the file LICENSE.

Copyright 2004 Andrew Wilkinson <aw at cs.york.ac.uk>.

This file is part of PyLinda (http://www-users.cs.york.ac.uk/~aw/pylinda)

PyLinda is free software; you can redistribute it and/or modify
it under the terms of the GNU Lesser General Public License as published by
the Free Software Foundation; either version 2.1 of the License, or
(at your option) any later version.

PyLinda is distributed in the hope that it will be useful,
but WITHOUT ANY WARRANTY; without even the implied warranty of
MERCHANTABILITY or FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE.  See the
GNU Lesser General Public License for more details.

You should have received a copy of the GNU Lesser General Public License
along with PyLinda; if not, write to the Free Software
Foundation, Inc., 59 Temple Place, Suite 330, Boston, MA  02111-1307  USA



From peter.maas at mplusr.de  Fri Apr  2 07:09:35 2004
From: peter.maas at mplusr.de (Peter Maas)
Date: Fri, 02 Apr 2004 14:09:35 +0200
Subject: Python conference slogan
In-Reply-To: <c4jj1i$f6g$1@swifty.westend.com>
References: <mailman.189.1080759511.20120.python-list@python.org>	<kmjsj1-89u.ln1@snout.lairds.org>	<c4glmq$j1i$1@swifty.westend.com>	<30260531.0404010833.1b834032@posting.google.com>	<406C4DDF.5000907@zope.com>
	<mailman.259.1080890435.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<c4jj1i$f6g$1@swifty.westend.com>
Message-ID: <406D57FF.4040601@mplusr.de>

Peter Maas wrote:
> As Iunderstand this thread there is a need for a slogan that is short,
> not too hard to understand and unforgettable (probably a definition
> of the word slogan). Python insiders don't need a slogan at all.

Something like

- Python - there's no better way  to code.
   [stolen from: Lufthansa - there's no better way  to fly]

- Your brain would choose Python.
   [stolen from: Your cat would by Whiskas :)]

- Python fits your brain.

- Unleash your brain with Python.

- Python - the natural programming language

Mit freundlichen Gruessen,

Peter Maas

-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Peter Maas, M+R Infosysteme, D-52070 Aachen, Hubert-Wienen-Str. 24
Tel +49-241-93878-0 Fax +49-241-93878-20 eMail peter.maas at mplusr.de
-------------------------------------------------------------------


From __peter__ at web.de  Fri Apr 16 16:06:35 2004
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2004 22:06:35 +0200
Subject: empty window when using askopenfile
References: <ac259413.0404161054.3bcaeaa8@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <c5pecc$pvh$02$1@news.t-online.com>

Sorin Gherman wrote:

> Is there any way to minimize/hide the annoying default, empty Tk
> window that shows behind the native file opening dialog , when using
> askopenfile, etc, in tkCommonDialog?

import Tkinter, tkFileDialog
root  = Tkinter.Tk()
root.withdraw()
tkFileDialog.askopenfile()

Peter



From has.temp2 at virgin.net  Sat Apr  3 18:05:31 2004
From: has.temp2 at virgin.net (has)
Date: 3 Apr 2004 15:05:31 -0800
Subject: HTML writer
References: <yL9bc.45202$wH3.33614@newssvr25.news.prodigy.com>
Message-ID: <69cbbef2.0404031505.770b3716@posting.google.com>

"Moosebumps" <moosebumps at moosebumps.com> wrote in message news:<yL9bc.45202$wH3.33614 at newssvr25.news.prodigy.com>...
> Is there a standard solution for writing HTML web pages with Python?  I
> don't know that much about web programming, but basically I want to generate
> some internal reports on a web page.

First ask yourself if you need to generate pages dynamically, or is
pre-rendering and serving them up statically fine? The latter is much,
much simpler to code for. For what you describe this may be all you
need. There's no shortage of frameworks for doing the former though (I
believe Quixote is well regarded as a "programmer-friendly" solution,
for example).

For templating, as long as you're comfy with a modicum of OO
programming then I'd recommend my HTMLTemplate module:
<http://freespace.virgin.net/hamish.sanderson/htmltemplate.html>.
Compiles HTML templates to a simple Python object model than can be
manipulated programmatically. Small and simple with no external
dependencies, clean separation between code and markup, and a very
clean, compact API; easily outstrips the old-school bloatware
ASP/PSP-style systems with their horrible code-in-markup soup.

On the offchance you need to do arbitary markup generation (for
generating really irregular tables and stuff that can't easily be
templated), there's always HTMLgen but it's pretty old and hoary now.
Donovan Preston's Nevow.Stan module is much more modern; see
<http://www.python.org/pycon/dc2004/papers/60/Nevow2004Tutorial.html>
for an introduction.


> I know there newer things like CSS and XHTML -- are these more or less
> effort to generate?  i.e. are they more complicated, or do they have more
> uniform syntax?  What do they necessarily buy you?

CSS (cascading style sheets) are for styling (and - if you're brave -
page layout). Absolutely fine for styling text (waaay nicer than using
<font> tag crap). Many browsers still have problems with more complex
presentational stuff, but it doesn't sound like you'll be needing
that. Not something you should have to generate programmatically -
whole point of CSS being you just write it once and apply it to your
entire site.

XHTML is just a tidied up version of the HTML standard; enforces a few
things that were optional in HTML, e.g. correct closing of element
tags, the main advantage of this being it can be parsed, manipulated,
etc. as XML.


> I am an experienced
> programming, but I don't know that much about all the alphabet soup that is
> web programming.

Yeah, there's a lot o' crap to avoid out there. Still, a good start'd
be finding yourself a nice modern introduction to writing HTML and
CSS, and go from there. There's scads of stuff online for this - main
problem's knowing the good from the bad. Reckon you some find some
good links at <http://webstandards.org/learn/standards/> (though you
may have to sift through a bit of geeky buzzword evangelism waffle to
get to it:). You won't need the advanced stuff and the basics are
easy. (Honest.<g> Hint: if a tutorial makes it sound complicated, find
a better tutorial!)

HTH


From claird at lairds.com  Mon Apr 19 09:32:02 2004
From: claird at lairds.com (Cameron Laird)
Date: Mon, 19 Apr 2004 13:32:02 -0000
Subject: Goodbye TCL
References: <0LudnSads6NmpuPdRVn-vw@centurytel.net>
	<21ccedf1.0404160639.14c2d852@posting.google.com>
	<1080ml0hdpp6tdf@corp.supernews.com>
	<c60i7t$2aff$1@godfrey.mcc.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <1087l6i1a67ml31@corp.supernews.com>

In article <c60i7t$2aff$1 at godfrey.mcc.ac.uk>,
Donal K. Fellows <donal.k.fellows at man.ac.uk> wrote:
>Cameron Laird wrote:
>> 'Different way to say this:  "database", in this sense, is a dirty
>> subject, in that it's far more tied to grungy details of specific
>> implementations than the masses generally realize, or than either
>> Python or Tcl, both of which prize purity in their own ways,
>> generally support. A general database abstraction is about as
>> rarefied as a general GUI abstraction.
>
>I had a quick look into general DB APIs in the past, and the response I
>got from the DB community at the time was "but this doesn't support this
>*vital* feature only implemented in one DB that 0.01% of users really
>need and therefore we could never ever use your proposal for a standard
>API".  It's kind of discouraging.
>
>FWIW, I think some mostly-common subset of functionality is possible (if
>we assume SQL underneath; without that, you can't get anywhere) and it
>would be enough to get most of the low-end and casual users total
>satisfaction. And maybe this would encourage alteration in the high-end
>interfaces to be more like each other too.
>
>Donal.
>
Yeah; I've written database abstractions, going back to before
there was a Tcl.  *I* like them fine.  To me, though, they don't
feel like something that belongs in the core.

-- 

Cameron Laird <claird at phaseit.net>
Business:  http://www.Phaseit.net


From hemanth_sethuram at yahoo.com  Fri Apr 23 02:43:22 2004
From: hemanth_sethuram at yahoo.com (Hemanth P.S.)
Date: 22 Apr 2004 23:43:22 -0700
Subject: Python use large scale projects
References: <47fc6058.0404212327.24163290@posting.google.com>
	<aKydnV3AIssWThrdRVn-gg@comcast.com>
	<asCdnTLM14wiexrdRVn-uQ@powergate.ca>
Message-ID: <9be5e130.0404222243.7cbf1be4@posting.google.com>

And combine your use of Python with Leo (http://leo.sourceforge.net),
another excellent application developed in Python, and it should make
developing and maintaining a large scale project easier than other
programming languages/tools.

--Hemanth


From jbenson at sextans.lowell.edu  Tue Apr 13 15:56:38 2004
From: jbenson at sextans.lowell.edu (Jim Benson)
Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2004 12:56:38 -0700 (MST)
Subject: Trouble installing Python on RedHat 9 
In-Reply-To: <407C4082.6040503@mediapulse.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0404131250420.20911-100000@sextans.mesa.lowellnet>

On Tue, 13 Apr 2004, Gabriel Cooper wrote:

> Anyway, here's a small snippet of what ``make`` throws at me:
> 
> In file included from /root/packages/Python-2.3.3/Modules/_tkinter.c:71:
> /usr/include/tk.h:83:29: X11/Xlib.h: No such file or directory

You need to install XFree86-devel-4.3.0-2 to get Xlib.h

Hope that helps,

Jim




From scrutinizer at gmx.at  Sun Apr  4 11:37:55 2004
From: scrutinizer at gmx.at (Francesco)
Date: Sun, 04 Apr 2004 17:37:55 +0200
Subject: Python Filemanager and Shell Context Menu
Message-ID: <bta0705aci1h5apnkpqs7n1uhvmulcbo5s@4ax.com>

Hello Pythonnian's

(sorry for crossposting)

I have written on the base of Miro Rajic a (still) small filemanager
in wxPython.
Now I want to add (for Windows XP) a explorer shell context menu.

I have no idea, how to accomplish this.
For what I can imagine:
Either use ctypes and the kernel or shell dll, or win32 extensions.

Have someone done such a task before?
Can someone help me?

Who has interesest and want to join in my project "wxPyAtol"?

particulary for the next time:

- Testing
- support for linux
- maybe restructure the program. (it is not very pyhton like)
- drag and drop support
- leap to wxPython 2.5

latest sources:
http://berg.heim.at/anden/421194/wxpyatol.zip

SF Site:
https://sourceforge.net/projects/wxpyatol/

My Homepage:
http://my.heim.at/franciss/

Sorry for my english and thank you in advance.

-- 
Francesco


From jeffbarish at starband.net  Wed Apr 21 23:49:00 2004
From: jeffbarish at starband.net (Jeffrey Barish)
Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2004 21:49:00 -0600
Subject: Tkinter: how to fill values in OptionMenu dynamically
Message-ID: <c67fbe$qks$1@sea.gmane.org>

Is there a way to fill the values in an OptionMenu dynamically?  I need
something like the add_command method from Menu.  Is there a better way
to implement a pull-down list?
-- 
Jeffrey Barish




From tjreedy at udel.edu  Thu Apr 29 13:53:00 2004
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Thu, 29 Apr 2004 13:53:00 -0400
Subject: python 2.3's lambda behaves old fashioned
References: <c6r3qo$1574k$1@hades.rz.uni-saarland.de>
Message-ID: <c6rfdj$u98$1@sea.gmane.org>


"Uwe Schmitt" <uwe.schmitt at procoders.net> wrote in message
news:c6r3qo$1574k$1 at hades.rz.uni-saarland.de...
> I just tried (Python 2.3)

Which did not change anything in this regard...

>     li = [ lambda x: x*a for a in range(10) ]

which, except for function __name__ and func_name attributes, translates
(unabbreviates) to

li = []
for a in range(10):
    def tem(x): return x*a
    li.append(tem)
del tem

which is equivalent to

li = []
for a in range(10):
    def tem(x): return x*__multiplier
    li.append(tem)
__multiplier = a
del a, tem

> which results in
>
>     li[0](1) = 9
>     ...
>     li[9](1) = 9

As one would expect from second translation above if not the first.

Its funny how some people expect default parameter objects to be
re-calculated on every call instead of just once, while others sometimes
expect global vars to be evaluated just once instead of on every call ;-)

The question of whether free vars within lambdas within list comps should
get 'early binding' instead of the usual late binding was discussed on
Py-Dev list last fall and some this winter.  I believe Guido recently said
no change.

Terry J. Reedy







From PPNTWIMBXFFC at spammotel.com  Thu Apr 22 03:30:23 2004
From: PPNTWIMBXFFC at spammotel.com (Marco Aschwanden)
Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2004 09:30:23 +0200
Subject: Python editors for Windows question
References: <D6Ahc.2737911$iA2.315963@news.easynews.com>
Message-ID: <opr6ukgx1m35jo5o@news.gmane.org>

The best auto-completion you can get for Python is: WingIde  
http://wingide.com/

Normally WingIDE is quite good at auto-completion but sometimes it needs 
some help:

if wingIde does not "recognize" a class you may add:

assert isinstance(btnHello, wxButton)

and after that point it will handle this for you too...

Good luck,
Marco






From jcarlson at uci.edu  Thu Apr  1 13:44:01 2004
From: jcarlson at uci.edu (Josiah Carlson)
Date: Thu, 01 Apr 2004 10:44:01 -0800
Subject: Travelling salesman variation in python
In-Reply-To: <slrnc6on9h.spl.erlendga@tva.ifi.uio.no>
References: <slrnc6on9h.spl.erlendga@tva.ifi.uio.no>
Message-ID: <c4ho3l$4he$1@news.service.uci.edu>

> I would appreciate some comments on this :)

Look at current TSP algorithms, and exchange their minimization rutines 
for a maximization rutine.  TSP is an NP-hard problem, which means that 
there is no currently known algorithm for solving it in polynomial time. 
  You can approximate it or do a search on the solution space, but 
solving it requires searching basically all of the solution space.

  - Josiah


From donn at u.washington.edu  Fri Apr 23 16:21:30 2004
From: donn at u.washington.edu (Donn Cave)
Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2004 13:21:30 -0700
Subject: Why we will use obj$func() often
References: <d2Uhc.22272$dZ1.1600@fed1read04>
	<mailman.939.1082697809.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<no4ic.26268$dZ1.11413@fed1read04>
	<mailman.948.1082710758.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<sXcic.28630$dZ1.20194@fed1read04>
	<mailman.975.1082746267.20120.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <donn-270E17.13213023042004@nntp4.u.washington.edu>

In article <mailman.975.1082746267.20120.python-list at python.org>,
 "Mike C. Fletcher" <mcfletch at rogers.com> wrote:
> Mark Hahn wrote:
> >"Mike C. Fletcher" <mcfletch at rogers.com> wrote ...
> >
> >  
> >
> >>$ is basically a character as far as glyphs go, it's a
> >>full-height glyph with ascenders and descenders, is very similar to a
> >>capital S, and generally makes reading code much harder as it obscures
> >>word-shape; .this or even self.this is much easier to read because you
> >>can pick out the words using your learned vocabulary of word-shapes.
> >>    
> >>
> >
> >Well I have a problem now.  I gave people on my mailing list a choice
> >between $var, `var, ~var,  and ^var.  The current tally is four votes for
> >$var and none for any of the others.  According to your criteria, $var is
> >the worst and ~var should be the best.  Am I correct?
>  
>
> Depends on the font ;) .  Certainly $ is going to have the most 
> (negative) impact on readability, but the other three are all basically 
> lightweight enough that they don't read as characters (basically any 
> glyph that fills the same space as a lower-case o is going to markedly 
> change the shape of a word.  ` is the least likely to be read as a 
> character, but is really hard to distinguish from ', so likely not a 
> great choice.  ^ doesn't occupy the middle space, so doesn't get read as 
> a character either.  ~ doesn't read as one either because it doesn't 
> touch the baseline.
> 
> $, however, is going to be familiar to your PERL aficionados, and 
> familiarity counts a lot for those who are familiar with it, regardless 
> of whether it's technically easier to read.  The other three are 
> basically just arbitrary punctuation, so people don't have any 
> associations built up with them (they don't look at them and 
> automatically think "attribute access").  The dot character does have 
> lots of attribute-access associations; hence a leading dot (which 
> doesn't read as a character) will tend to test favourably on both scales 
> (practical and familiar).

Hm, I do have some associations with the other three, and
also with $ in an infix position.  Maybe I have more junk
than usual in my mental closet, but we are supposed to
venerate the aged so I will report without embarrassment
that I remember VMS library functions like RMS$PARSE etc.
This basically goes along with the argument above - it's
a single identifier, $ is not punctuation.  VMS is still
around, too.

The C use of ~ (bitwise negation operator) and ^ (bitwise
xor) should be a problem, but otherwise I guess ~ seems
like a character to me too.  In an infix position.  hi~ho
vs. hi_ho, same look to me.  They are also operators in
the Plan 9 rc shell, incidentally - glob match and distributive
concatenation, respectively.

Any of the four would be an unhappy choice, in my view.
Maybe there's some way to use :

   Donn Cave, donn at u.washington.edu


From mday at apple.com  Tue Apr 20 19:14:07 2004
From: mday at apple.com (Mark Day)
Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 16:14:07 -0700
Subject: closing file
References: <mailman.800.1082472051.20120.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <200420041614070129%mday@apple.com>

In article <mailman.800.1082472051.20120.python-list at python.org>,
Marcello Pietrobon <teiffel at attglobal.net> wrote:

> Once I open a file, for example as:
> class MyClass:
>     def logFileOpen( self ):
>         self.fdFilenameLog = file( self.filenameLog, 'a' )
>         return
> 
> I cannot find in hte documentation how to make sure the file are closed.

File objects have a close() method that you can call.  See
<http://docs.python.org/lib/bltin-file-objects.html>

-Mark


From alloydflanagan at comcast.net  Fri Apr 30 09:58:20 2004
From: alloydflanagan at comcast.net (A. Lloyd Flanagan)
Date: 30 Apr 2004 06:58:20 -0700
Subject: Why we will use obj$func() often
References: <d2Uhc.22272$dZ1.1600@fed1read04> <40887145.789A2FE8@alcyone.com>
	<7cki80hj976bia36lhf9er97v073o1pqvm@4ax.com>
	<w8dic.28710$dZ1.11206@fed1read04> <ulXiAls/KH1K089yn@the-wire.com>
	<lkfic.29767$dZ1.17301@fed1read04>
	<donn-66132E.15345723042004@nntp3.u.washington.edu>
	<PLhic.30493$dZ1.22063@fed1read04> <1082783076.585831@yasure>
	<Tunic.32387$dZ1.12932@fed1read04>
	<c6hvdk$bs63j$1@ID-169208.news.uni-berlin.de>
	<SN%ic.37580$dZ1.14964@fed1read04>
	<c6kajs$cgj7g$1@ID-169208.news.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <e838aa6e.0404300558.2db11196@posting.google.com>

Greg Ewing <greg at cosc.canterbury.ac.nz> wrote in message news:<c6kajs$cgj7g$1 at ID-169208.news.uni-berlin.de>...
> Mark Hahn wrote:
> > You cannot.  Yes it literally means the immediately surrounding function.
> > In your example, I can't think of any scheme we've discussed that accesses x
> > in function f.  Python surely cannot.
> 
> Python can't write to it, but at least it can read it.
> Prothon apparently can't even read it.
> 

Actually, when I tried the code I got a NameError.  I don't see why I
would want to access a variable defined in an inner scope from an
outer scope; this seems like a great way to clutter up the namespace
and confuse the issue of what the variable actually refers to.


From bjornhb3 at yahoo.se  Tue Apr  6 05:35:59 2004
From: bjornhb3 at yahoo.se (Bjorn Heimir Bjornsson)
Date: Tue, 6 Apr 2004 09:35:59 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Verifying temporal properties. Need problems.
References: <68771ca.0404010839.39b0c24f@posting.google.com>
	<c4jrm2$7n7$1@arcturus.ciril.fr>
	<Xns94C0A74C3C673bjornhb3yahoose@193.10.250.152>
	<c4mu9p$29us$1@biggoron.nerim.net>
Message-ID: <Xns94C374D1DEF9Cbjornhb3yahoose@193.10.250.152>

Yermat <loic at yermat.net1.nerim.net> wrote in
> Instead of searching the workflow yourself you might look at PyPY.
> There is a class (see translator.py) that construct such a flow.

Thanks Loic for pointing out pypy's controlflow. I will check if I can use 
it. I had searched for something like this for Python but never found 
anything.

> On monday, I will show you a kind of workflow I'm creating in case
> mine is more complete than yours...

It would be really interesting to see what can be done with pypy's 
controlflow.

Bjorn


From No.Spam.mc at No.Spam.mclaveau.No.Spam.com  Sat Apr  3 13:55:42 2004
From: No.Spam.mc at No.Spam.mclaveau.No.Spam.com (Michel Claveau/Hamster)
Date: Sat, 3 Apr 2004 20:55:42 +0200
Subject: Python is faster than C
References: <406F0907.96F37EA1@tunes.org>
Message-ID: <c4n9qf$jgq$1@news-reader4.wanadoo.fr>

Hi !

For the 1st April, it's finish.







From t at REMOVETHISbrowse.to  Wed Apr 28 18:17:10 2004
From: t at REMOVETHISbrowse.to (Tom)
Date: Wed, 28 Apr 2004 22:17:10 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: asp script engine registrition
In-Reply-To: <mailman.97.1083183109.25742.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.97.1083183109.25742.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <c6pah6$83u$1@hercules.btinternet.com>

jianchiwei wrote...

> question:
> I run 
> c:\python23\Lib\site-packages\win32comext\axscript\client\pyscript.py
> and it told me
> Registered: Python
> Registration of Python ActiveX Scripting Engine complete.
> 
> But, when I run a asp script
> 
> <%@LANGUAGE=Python%>
> <HTML>


<% @LANGUAGE="Python" %>

??



> I still get
>     HTTP/1.1 500 Server Error
> caused by the first line of code "<%@LANGUAGE=Python%>".
> It seems to me that python script engine is not correctly registered.
> Could someone help me on this please?
> Thanks
> J.W.
> 
> 
> 
> 


From fma at doe.carleton.ca  Thu Apr 15 01:31:19 2004
From: fma at doe.carleton.ca (Fred Ma)
Date: 15 Apr 2004 05:31:19 GMT
Subject: Kuhlman's tutorials pretty good
Message-ID: <407E1E20.D0216E92@doe.carleton.ca>

I find Dave Kuhlman's tutorials very good, and very complementary
to the stock tutorial that is part of the python download.  Even
when they cover the same thing, if it's not that clear in one
tutorial, reading the other makes it quite clear.   But one can
swim around the Python website for ages before rummaging into
Kulhman's tutorials (Python 101 and 201).  I thought it was easy
to run into a few days ago.  Has the website changed?  Aren't
Kuhlman's tutorials good enough to sit shoulder-to-shoulder with
the other links in "Python for Programmers"?  I thought that's
where it was before.  Granted, it's got a few sections (like
Using Regular Expressions and Match Objects, 2.3 & 2.4 of 201)
that need editting, but invaluable nevertheless.  From the point
of view of someone still waiting for Learning Python to come.

Fred
-- 
Fred Ma
Dept. of Electronics, Carleton University
1125 Colonel By Drive, Ottawa, Ontario
Canada, K1S 5B6


From dparsons at cuivre.freenix.fr  Tue Apr 27 03:15:59 2004
From: dparsons at cuivre.freenix.fr (dparsons at cuivre.freenix.fr)
Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2004 07:15:59 +0000
Subject: Python-list, do you want be better lover? VxoRHRAxRA
In-Reply-To: <DJHBE0I8GBE0EDED@python.org>
References: <DJHBE0I8GBE0EDED@python.org>
Message-ID: <F1A3DFH8B3K3H0L6@cuivre.freenix.fr>

An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/attachments/20040427/b008a483/attachment.html>

From Mike at DeleteThis.Geary.com  Tue Apr 20 12:20:48 2004
From: Mike at DeleteThis.Geary.com (Michael Geary)
Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 09:20:48 -0700
Subject: CamelCase versus wide_names (Prothon)
References: <UHxfc.9323$dZ1.3740@fed1read04>	<6ee58e07.0404192141.2229efd6@posting.google.com>	<c62e05$6oraj$1@ID-99293.news.uni-berlin.de>	<i93hc.13733$dZ1.8818@fed1read04>
	<mailman.789.1082458674.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<40851128.8000400@mxm.dk>
	<40851379$0$290$edfadb0f@dread12.news.tele.dk>
Message-ID: <108ajf1j55ul61@corp.supernews.com>

> Max M wrote:
> > Make . a normal letter.
> >
> > And make _ have the function that . has in Python, so that _ and . sort
> > of switches meaning.
>
> def install.sub.skin(self, out, skin.folder):
>      """Install a subskin"""
>
>      skins.tool = get.tool.by.name(self, 'portal.skins')
>
>      for skin in skins.tool_get.skin.selections():
>          path = skins.tool_get.skin.path(skin)
>          path = map(string_strip, string_split(path,','))
>          if not skin.folder in path:
>              try:
>                  path_insert(path_index('custom')+1, skin.folder)
>              except value.error:
>                  path_append(skin.folder)
>              path = string_join(path, ', ')
>              skins.tool_add.skin.selection(skin, path)
>              out_write('Subskin successfully installed into %s\n' %
> skin)
>          else:
>              out_write('*** Subskin was already installed into %s\n' %
> skin)
>
>
> It is allmost freakish how hard that is to read.

Interesting... I think you're kidding around, but I actually like that
notation quite a bit.

The problem I have with names_with_underscores is that the underscore adds
too much separation between the words, causing visual confusion over which
word belongs to which name. This is especially true in a proportional font.
Consider one of the function calls in your code, and for a moment forget
your expectations from Python, C, and similar languages:

      skins.tool_get.skin.selections()

If you view that in a proportional font, the visual grouping is vivid:
skins.tool is one unit, and get.skin.selections is a separate unit. That big
fat underscore is more than twice the width of the tiny little periods, so
that's where the visual break occurs.

Compare it with the traditional:

      skins_tool.get_skin_selections():

When I read that code in my mind (again viewing it in a proportional font),
I have to make an effort to prevent myself from pronouncing it this way:
"skins" (pause) "tool get" (pause) "skin" (pause) "selections". After all,
the words "tool" and "get" have only that tiny period in between, while
there is a much larger distance between the other words. (In the font I'm
viewing this in, underscore is 2.2 times the width of period, and 2.75 times
the width of an actual space character!)

Of course, in a monospaced font, period, underscore, and space are all the
same width, and so many languages use underscore as an "alphanumeric"
character and period as a separator that it would probably be confusing to
do otherwise.

But it's interesting how a proportional font stands all of this on its head,
with underscore being so much wider than the other punctuation marks.

-Mike




From andymac at bullseye.apana.org.au  Thu Apr  8 06:30:01 2004
From: andymac at bullseye.apana.org.au (Andrew MacIntyre)
Date: Thu, 8 Apr 2004 20:30:01 +1000 (EST)
Subject: CGI Problems With Xitami
In-Reply-To: <8089854e.0404072356.7f33f440@posting.google.com>
References: <8089854e.0404072356.7f33f440@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <20040408202708.Y9951@bullseye.apana.org.au>

On Thu, 8 Apr 2004, Fuzzyman wrote:

> All of a sudden the 'POST' method has stopped working - when I specify
> 'POST' as the method in forms... the CGI gets no data... and I really
> don't want to use 'GET' as it makes the password visible in the URL...

Are you using "python -u" when invoking your CGI script?  Unbuffered I/O
saves lots of headaches with CGI, especially on Windows.

--
Andrew I MacIntyre                     "These thoughts are mine alone..."
E-mail: andymac at bullseye.apana.org.au  (pref) | Snail: PO Box 370
        andymac at pcug.org.au             (alt) |        Belconnen  ACT  2616
Web:    http://www.andymac.org/               |        Australia



From RHORDON at uvcs.uvic.ca  Fri Apr 30 14:15:28 2004
From: RHORDON at uvcs.uvic.ca (Rhordon Wikkramatileke)
Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2004 11:15:28 -0700
Subject: Out of Office AutoReply: Deliver Mail (rhordon@uvcs.uvic.ca)
Message-ID: <B51DC5FDDF89AA46A5D423EF6BD0970002839705@optimus.uvcs.uvic.ca>

I will be away on business from April 22 to May 10, 2004. 
Messages will be returned on May 11. In the case of urgent matters, please contact Pat Webster at pwebster at uvcs.uvic.ca or (250) 721-6412

Regards.

Dr. Rhordon Wikkramatileke





From mauro.baraldi at bol.com.br  Fri Apr 23 17:49:20 2004
From: mauro.baraldi at bol.com.br (Mauro Baraldi)
Date: 23 Apr 2004 14:49:20 -0700
Subject: Change the color of partial text of a TextBox.
Message-ID: <daf62359.0404231349.5efde151@posting.google.com>

Hello,

Someone can post some example of how to change the color of text on
the TextBox.

I try to use the method bind to capture a event like <b> key press,
but I don' found a method to change the color of this letter pressed.

It's something like Color Delegator of IDLE, but more simple...

Thanks
Mauro


From me at privacy.net  Wed Apr  7 04:39:35 2004
From: me at privacy.net (Duncan Booth)
Date: 7 Apr 2004 08:39:35 GMT
Subject: unpack tuple of wrong size
References: <c7r57095assq7p777q2ugudnh72qud8kgb@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <Xns94C460B7EA891duncanrcpcouk@127.0.0.1>

Tung Wai Yip <tungwaiyip at yahoo.com> wrote in 
news:c7r57095assq7p777q2ugudnh72qud8kgb at 4ax.com:

> However when
> t = (1,)
> a,b=t
> 
> I got a "ValueError: unpack tuple of wrong size"
> 
> What I want is for a=1 and b=None. Is there a good way to do this?

Probably the simplest is:

a, b = (t + (None, None))[:2]



From jean-michel.caricand at laposte.net  Fri Apr  9 02:33:47 2004
From: jean-michel.caricand at laposte.net (Jean-Michel Caricand)
Date: Fri, 9 Apr 2004 08:33:47 +0200
Subject: Function args
References: <sdqdc.37060$zm5.15866@nntpserver.swip.net>
	<c55f5r$f2l$1@news-reader4.wanadoo.fr>
Message-ID: <c55g8u$vvg$1@s1.read.news.oleane.net>

Bonjour Michel et mer?i pour la r?ponse tr?s rapide. Je tiens ? pr?ciser que
nous d?veloppons en interne
en langage Perl. Ma question peut donc sembler b?te pour des programmeurs
Python.

Apr?s maintes recherches, je n'ai pas trouv? d'exemples me permettant de
comprendre le m?canisme employ?
par Python pour passer un simple nombre ? une fonction et le modifier
r?ellement.

Imaginons que je veuille ?crire une fonction qui permute deux variables,
j'?cris :

def permuter(a,b):
  c = b
  b = a
  a = c

Si tout est objet, donc pass? par r?f?rence a et b devraient ?tre r?ellement
modifier ? Pourtant ce n'est pas le cas.

Pourriez simplement me donner un exemple pour cette fonction. Encore mer?i

"Michel Claveau/Hamster" <No.Spam.mc at No.Spam.mclaveau.No.Spam.com> a ?crit
dans le message de news: c55f5r$f2l$1 at news-reader4.wanadoo.fr...
> Bonjour !
>
> En Python, les variables sont des sortes de pointeurs sur des objets. Tout
> passage de variable comme param?tres se fait forc?ment par r?f?rence (en
> fait, on passe la r?f?rence ? l'objet).
> De plus l'affectation d'une variable cr?e un autre objet, car la plupart
des
> objets ne sont pas modifiables.
>
> Seuls le sont les listes et les dictionnaires sont modifiables. Une cha?ne
> de caract?res n'est pas modifiable non plus.
>
> Cependant, il existe des modules contenant d'autres types ayant des
> comportement diff?rents. Il est ?galement possible de d?finir ses propres
> classes, dont on (re)-d?finira le comportement.
>
>
>
> PS : il existe aussi un newsgroup   fr.comp.lang.python
>
>
>
> @-salutations
> --
> Michel Claveau
> m?l : http://cerbermail.com/?6J1TthIa8B
> site : http://mclaveau.com
>
>




From paul at shiningrose.co.uk  Tue Apr 27 14:38:14 2004
From: paul at shiningrose.co.uk (p brian)
Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2004 19:38:14 +0100
Subject: Trying to write comments after escaping newline
Message-ID: <c6m9aq$pd5$1@news8.svr.pol.co.uk>

Dear all,

Weirdly enough i do not think I have come across this before. Perhaps I do
not use enough comments....

mystring = "hello " + someVariable + \
                 "multiple lines 4 clarity" + \
                 someothervariable

print mystring

The above works , but if I add comments

mystring = "hello " + someVariable + \     #comment
                 "multiple lines 4 clarity" + \      #comment
                 someothervariable                    #comment

it stops working because instead of escaping a newline I am now just
escaping a space or tab.
Is there some clever thing i have missed?

Thanks for any advice

paul




From bram at nospam.sara.nl  Wed Apr 14 11:01:18 2004
From: bram at nospam.sara.nl (Bram Stolk)
Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2004 17:01:18 +0200
Subject: spherical coordinates
References: <20040414111334.34b5d225@pistache.sara.nl>	<c5j28h$j3m$1@swifty.westend.com>
	<7x1xmqua94.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<dX8fc.587$lp3.280@fe2.texas.rr.com>
Message-ID: <20040414170118.0733e51f@pistache.sara.nl>

Organization: SARA
X-Newsreader: Sylpheed version 0.9.8claws (GTK+ 1.2.10; i686-pc-linux-gnu)
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

On Wed, 14 Apr 2004 11:06:49 GMT
"Paul McGuire" <ptmcg at austin.rr._bogus_.com> wrote:


> 
> I can imagine that all these conversions could be a performance killer if
> done entirely in Python, and could stand to be done as a C extension.  This
> is probably why the OP was asking if such a package already exists.
> 

Well, performance is not my first concern.
I just want encapsulated classes for convenience, that handle all
sorts of spherical coordinate specifics.

For instance... interpolation between spherical coordinates. You can avoid
going to/from cartesian if you properly handle the wrap-around at 180 and 360
degrees.

Also, I want to be able to recursively subdivide the theta,phy space, and
do stratification in theta,phy space, and al sorts of other operations, on 
the surface of a given sphere.

An encapsulating class for these kind of coordinates would be a help, I
thought.

  Bram

-- 
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 Bram Stolk, VR Engineer.
 SARA Academic Computing Services Amsterdam, PO Box 94613, 1090 GP  AMSTERDAM
 email: bram at nospam.sara.nl   Phone +31-20-5923059  Fax +31-20-6683167

"For the costs of subsidized agriculture in the EU, we can have all 56 million
 European cows fly around the world. First Class." - J. Norberg
------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From singleify_me_jjeesstteerr at mmccss.vvuuww.aacc.nnzz  Sat Apr 10 02:08:48 2004
From: singleify_me_jjeesstteerr at mmccss.vvuuww.aacc.nnzz (Mike McGavin)
Date: Sat, 10 Apr 2004 18:08:48 +1200
Subject: Changing the default string object used by the interpreter
Message-ID: <1081577328.739901@bats.mcs.vuw.ac.nz>

Hi everyone.

I'm wondering if anyone can suggest a way, short of directly hacking the 
python interpreter, to change the default str class to a different one. 
  ie. So that every time a str instance is created, it uses *my* class 
instead of the built-in python string.  Is there anything hidden away 
that can be overloaded that might make this possible to do?


For some context, I've been hacking away on an experimental pet project 
for a while.  I have a class that I call zstr, which inherits the 
standard python str class, adding some state information.  The idea is 
that strings can have several representations, such as different ways 
that they're currently escaped, even though all different 
representations are essentially the same string.  If the string contains 
information about its current state, it might be possible to make 
defensive coding in things like web scripting a bit easier.  eg. Any 
code that's unsure of the string's state can re-escape it to make sure, 
whilst the string instance itself can ensure that it doesn't 
accidentally get escaped several times in different parts of the code. 
My somewhat inefficient, buggy and badly documented prototype module is 
available at [ http://www.mcs.vuw.ac.nz/~jester/zstr/ ].

One problem I've discovered anecdotally, however, is that many of the 
strings I'd *like* to naturally treat as zstr objects are ones that are 
initially generated as ordinary strings from external code, such as the 
built-in libraries.  Explicitly wrapping every single string that my 
code receives into a zstr constructor is both ugly and somewhat 
unreliable, since they're so common that I often forget.  Therefore I'd 
like to experiment with ways to bypass this.

What I'd like to try, as mentioned above, is to override Python's string 
creation code, so that it automatically uses a zstr class instead of the 
str class for every string created in the system.  I guess the one 
exception would be where my zstr class inherits and (in some cases) uses 
the regular python str class internally, in which case the real str 
would need to be able to be referenced.

If anyone can suggest a way to do it, I'd love to hear it.


Thanks for any help.
Mike.


From williams at csr.utexas.edu  Fri Apr 30 11:50:36 2004
From: williams at csr.utexas.edu (Stephen Williams)
Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2004 10:50:36 -0500
Subject: _socket module missing solaris 7 build python 2.3.3
Message-ID: <409275CC.1D6D080@csr.utexas.edu>

after compiling python 2.3.3 on a solaris 7 system, one of our users
gets this error message now with a script he had previously written:

% python
>>> from ftplib import FTP
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
  File "/usr/local/lib/python2.3/ftplib.py", line 45, in ?
    import socket
  File "/usr/local/lib/python2.3/socket.py", line 44, in ?
    import _socket
ImportError: No module named _socket


this behavior is also apparent if you simply download the python 2.3.3
distribution from sunfreeware.com, so it makes me think there is a bug
somewhere in this distribution.  whatever the reason, the module _socket
just simply does not get made.  and no, it is not in any of the normal
paths that one would include for python libraries.

anyone out there know of a way around this?  compiler flags or
something?
-- 


                     '''
                    (O O)
 ,-------------- oOO-(_)-OOo -------------,
 |            Stephen Williams            |
 |      Manager of Computer Services      |
 |       Center for Space Research        |
 |     University of Texas at Austin      |
 |     3925 W. Braker Ln., Suite 200      |
 |          Austin, TX 78759-5321         |
 |    512.471.7235  512.471.3570 (fax)    |
 |       williams at csr.utexas.edu          |
 |____________________ Oooo ______________|
                oooO   (   )
               (   )    ) /
                \ (    (_/
                 \_)


From ajsiegel at optonline.com  Wed Apr  7 09:08:47 2004
From: ajsiegel at optonline.com (Arthur)
Date: Wed, 07 Apr 2004 13:08:47 GMT
Subject: slightly OT: BUT NEEDs to be said
References: <lvOdnRJzZ9244ezdRVn-uQ@powergate.ca>	<8b42d1998c978c8c1cddf15c52a1c57b@dizum.com>
	<mailman.369.1081197825.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<213df9a1.0404060804.33d68297@posting.google.com>
	<c505ml$4p$1@news.service.uci.edu>
Message-ID: <7nt7709s4emnjpov92tntdnb4sr1kcdar7@4ax.com>

On Tue, 06 Apr 2004 23:01:47 -0700, Josiah Carlson <jcarlson at uci.edu>
wrote:

>
>You are lumping "Monty Python and the Holy Grail", "Problem Child" and 
>"The Adventures of Priscilla, Queen of the Desert" together in one 
>message saying, "they all suck" (to some degree or another).


I lumped them together only saying I walked out on all three.  An
historical fact. 

>
>If at any point you thought "Problem Child" was going to be good to 
>watch, either for you or your son, then you need a /serious/ parental 
>wakeup call.  Watching 30 seconds of trailer when I was 10, was enough 
>to convince me that it was a worthless piece of crap, and I was part of 
>the core demographic.

One thing you, or at least I, learn as a parent is not to be too quick
to judge other people's parenting.

My son was not as perceptive as you.  It was not my style to impose my
will, generally, on such matters.  I did decide to make a stand on the
spot, and let him know I was offended enough to drag him out of there.

Good luck to you, as a parent.  If its something you choose to
undertake.

>
>As an aside, have you bothered to see "...Holy Grail" since you walked 
>out of it, or have you damned it based on your impression of it while 
>you were "feeling particularly fragile"?  Just curious.

No.

But if it's any consolation, Faulty Towers is on my list of favorite
TV shows.

>
>As for you not enjoying "Priscilla...", well, that is unfortunate. 
>However, the message was not that of tolerance, tolerance carries one 
>unfortunate meaning - you tolerate the kid on the airplane kicking your 
>seat.  Perhaps you meant acceptance.  And yes, there have been many 
>movies about non-heterosexual lifestyles made, some better, some worse. 
>  The choices the writer/director made in regards to "Priscilla..." were 
>his to make, and again, it is unfortunate that you didn't enjoy the movie.

My wife is a great fan of gay culture, if it is fair to say that such
a thing exists.  I was at Priscilla becasue she had already see it,
and insisted I go with her to see it. I guess I was protesting being
dragged there. It was not somehting I needed to see, was my
assessment, or my statement to her.

We survived the incident, you'll be happy to know.

Art

>
>  - Josiah



From peter.maas at mplusr.de  Mon Apr 26 04:14:21 2004
From: peter.maas at mplusr.de (Peter Maas)
Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2004 10:14:21 +0200
Subject: How's ruby compare to it older brother python
In-Reply-To: <c6ich0$c5mee$1@ID-205437.news.uni-berlin.de>
References: <c6ich0$c5mee$1@ID-205437.news.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <c6igel$3dk$1@swifty.westend.com>

Hunn E. Balsiche wrote:
> I've given up on Perl for its ugly syntax and it is not the easiest language
> to learn. How about PHP?

http://www.python.org/doc/Comparisons.html

Mit freundlichen Gruessen,

Peter Maas

-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Peter Maas, M+R Infosysteme, D-52070 Aachen, Hubert-Wienen-Str. 24
Tel +49-241-93878-0 Fax +49-241-93878-20 eMail peter.maas at mplusr.de
-------------------------------------------------------------------


From mark at prothon.org  Wed Apr 21 20:21:03 2004
From: mark at prothon.org (Mark Hahn)
Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2004 17:21:03 -0700
Subject: CamelCase versus wide_names (Prothon)
References: <UHxfc.9323$dZ1.3740@fed1read04>
	<6e0680ac.0404211252.7f7b4358@posting.google.com>
	<4086DFA7.9736E7D3@alcyone.com>
	<roy-15454C.18080121042004@reader2.panix.com>
Message-ID: <PdEhc.19536$dZ1.11964@fed1read04>

"Roy Smith" <roy at panix.com> wrote ...


> Well, we could always try something like...
>
> <variable>
>  <name>
>   <component>long</component>
>   <component>variable</component>
>   <component>name</component>
>  <name>
> </variable>

That's it!  We'll do the whole Prothon language in XML!  (The one idea that
hasn't been proposed over in Prothon lists yet :)




From plastic"no-spam-pls" at xsintrk.net  Fri Apr 16 03:34:41 2004
From: plastic"no-spam-pls" at xsintrk.net (jeff)
Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2004 07:34:41 GMT
Subject: newbie question
References: <Xns94CCA389D3DA0plasticnospamplsxsin@216.77.188.18>
	<c5mtsl$dns$2@absinth.dialog.net.pl>
	<Xns94CCA82D89C84plasticnospamplsxsin@216.77.188.18>
	<c5mvrg$fda$1@absinth.dialog.net.pl>
	<Xns94CCAEBD1A18Eplasticnospamplsxsin@216.77.188.18>
	<c5nuno$1mj$1@absinth.dialog.net.pl>
Message-ID: <Xns94CD1AEDEAAEEplasticnospamplsxsin@216.77.188.18>

"Krzysztof Stachlewski" <stach at fr.pl> wrote in
news:c5nuno$1mj$1 at absinth.dialog.net.pl: 

> This is because you are trying to use a socket that is already closed.
> You are calling s.close() but you are not break-ing out of the loop.
> In the next iteration s.recv() is called, but s is closed
> at that moment. Add a break after the call to s.close().

> Stach

*smacks forehead*
*hard*


From jacek.generowicz at cern.ch  Thu Apr  8 08:46:07 2004
From: jacek.generowicz at cern.ch (Jacek Generowicz)
Date: 08 Apr 2004 14:46:07 +0200
Subject: A second __builtins__- or globals()-like namespace.
Message-ID: <tyfy8p6vdrk.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>

Python looks up names firstly in the nested function namespaces, then
the global namespace, and finally in builtins, raising NameError if it
fails to find a binding in any of those.

Would it be possible (without hacking the interpreter) to add in
another namespace somewhere into this search hierarchy?






======================================================================

If you want more background ... 


I have an application which generates Python proxies for C++ objects,
automatically. For example, given

namespace foo {
  struct bar {
    void zot();
  };
}

the application automatically creates an object "foo" of type
Namespace, contaiting an attribute "bar" of type "Cclass", contaiting
an attribute "zot" of type "CMethod".

IOW, it's as if someone had written

class Namespace:
    pass

class

So far, I am storing the whole C++ scope tree (rooted at C++' global
namespace) in a variable, say "g", which makes the user refer to the
aforementioned "zot" as "g.foo.bar.zot". I would like to get rid of
the leading "g."  without polluting globals() or __builtins__ (and
providing a means of explicit disambiguation of any name
clashes). IOW, I would like an object (eg __cpp__), in which Python
tries to find the binding of a name after looking in globals() but
before looking in __builtins__ (or maybe after __builtins__, or even
before globals()).


From derek at hiredgoons.org  Wed Apr  7 11:00:01 2004
From: derek at hiredgoons.org (Derek Thomson)
Date: Thu, 08 Apr 2004 01:00:01 +1000
Subject: Are line continuations needed?
In-Reply-To: <10784c8ps1vsu34@news.supernews.com>
References: <407409ef.82801353@news.eircom.net>
	<40740f99@duster.adelaide.on.net>
	<10784c8ps1vsu34@news.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <40741771.8040909@hiredgoons.org>

John Roth wrote:

 >Derek Thomson wrote:
 >>
>>class ParticleDistributionBehaviorServer \
>>           (Microphysics__POA.ParticleDistributionBehavior):
>>
 >> [snip]
>>
>>So the fact that you don't need it in the case of incomplete expressions
>>eliminates *most* of the need for it, but there are still a few cases
>>where it is required.
> 
> 
> Technically, you could have split it at the period, but that
> might be even worse in terms of readability.

I didn't know that, but yes, it would be ugly.

> 
> BTW - why did it have to fit in 80 columns?

Because that's our coding standard. But it wouldn't matter if it was 120 
columns, or in fact any number you specify - I can still construct an 
example that won't work.

Regards,
Derek.


From jepler at unpythonic.net  Sat Apr  3 22:13:37 2004
From: jepler at unpythonic.net (Jeff Epler)
Date: Sat, 3 Apr 2004 21:13:37 -0600
Subject: Typing \n in strings
In-Reply-To: <RGKbc.11130$yN6.10939@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net>
References: <RGKbc.11130$yN6.10939@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <20040404031336.GA3455@unpythonic.net>

>>> a = "line1\nline2"
>>> a                  # This prints repr(a)
'line1\nline2'
>>> print a            # This prints a
line1
line2

When you enter an expression in the interactive interpreter, and its
result is not None, Python shows you the repr() of the value.  When you
use 'print expression', you are shown the str() of the value.
Skip ahead to 7.1, "Fancier Output Formatting", for some more details.

Jeff



From peter at engcorp.com  Mon Apr  5 21:31:20 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Mon, 05 Apr 2004 21:31:20 -0400
Subject: slightly OT: BUT NEEDs to be said
In-Reply-To: <8b42d1998c978c8c1cddf15c52a1c57b@dizum.com>
References: <lvOdnRJzZ9244ezdRVn-uQ@powergate.ca>
	<8b42d1998c978c8c1cddf15c52a1c57b@dizum.com>
Message-ID: <zaadnQilWYX1le_dRVn-hw@powergate.ca>

Nomen Nescio wrote:

> In article <lvOdnRJzZ9244ezdRVn-uQ at powergate.ca>, Peter Hansen <peter at engcorp.com>
> wrote:
> 
>>Some people despise snakes, and are terrified of them.
> 
> Everyone loves cute cuddly snakes and no one in their right mind is afraid
> of them. They don't carry any political baggage or meaning.

"Cuddly"?  I'd hate to meet your girlfriend...  and after reading
the first lines of your response I can see clearly you are just
trolling and don't really want a serious discussion.  If that's
not a true statement, at least back off this ludicrous claim
and let's try to carry on a rationale discussion.  Else: bye.

-Peter


From paul at prescod.net  Mon Apr  5 04:22:57 2004
From: paul at prescod.net (Paul Prescod)
Date: Mon, 05 Apr 2004 01:22:57 -0700
Subject: Python is faster than C
In-Reply-To: <5d83790c.0404042249.5ff4e354@posting.google.com>
References: <406F0907.96F37EA1@tunes.org>
	<5d83790c.0404032144.482787bd@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.325.1081086545.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<5d83790c.0404042249.5ff4e354@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <40711761.5090702@prescod.net>

Raymond Hettinger wrote:

> ...
> 
> P.S.  If some experimentation shows your code to be useful at the
> interactive prompt, please submit a patch on SF so it won't be lost.

Why put this behaviour in the interactive prompt rather than in repr()?

  Paul Prescod





From R.Brodie at rl.ac.uk  Fri Apr 23 05:03:42 2004
From: R.Brodie at rl.ac.uk (Richard Brodie)
Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2004 10:03:42 +0100
Subject: Problem with xml.dom parser and xmlns attribute
References: <c682uu$sco$1@swifty.westend.com> <c6856g$qt0@newton.cc.rl.ac.uk>
	<c68jai$g85$1@swifty.westend.com>
Message-ID: <c6am5f$16m4@newton.cc.rl.ac.uk>


"Peter Maas" <peter.maas at mplusr.de> wrote in message news:c68jai$g85$1 at swifty.westend.com...

> Thanks, Richard. But in the Internet most of the time I don't know
> what kind of document I'm dealing with when I start parsing. I guess
> I should use HTMLParser (?).

If you're dealing with a wide range of web pages, chances are they
will have all manner of rubbish in them. I would probably feed the
stuff through Tidy (or uTidyLib) first, to convert to cleanish XHTML,
then use an XML parser.




From john_bradbury at skipthistalk21.com  Mon Apr 26 06:09:20 2004
From: john_bradbury at skipthistalk21.com (John Bradbury)
Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2004 10:09:20 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Pytables
Message-ID: <c6in4g$j0o$1@sparta.btinternet.com>

Does anyone know how to get support for pytables.  I have tried posting to 
the forum & emailing the author - to no avail.

The question I have is, how do you update existing tables.  I see insert and 
delete functions, but no obvious way to update.

John Bradbury


From mauriceling at acm.org  Mon Apr 26 00:10:23 2004
From: mauriceling at acm.org (Maurice LING)
Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2004 04:10:23 GMT
Subject: A new OS
In-Reply-To: <107k441hitt2ld9@corp.supernews.com>
References: <107k441hitt2ld9@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <408c8baa$1@news.unimelb.edu.au>

A Evans wrote:
> Hello Everyone I am working towards starting a project developing a new
> Operating System using the Python language (or a derivative thereof). As
> recommended on this forum I am asking if people are interested in something
> like this and ask who would be willing to support a project this large.
> 
> Any and all ideas are welcome this message is just to see what kind of
> support this project would recieve
> 
> Cheers
> 
> Andrew
> 
> 
Is it possible to program a python virtual machine into an EEPROM 
(eletrically erasable programmable read-only memory) and then set the 
BIOS to access this VM as the bootloader? So in directly, we have a very 
low level python VM in the system when it boots up......

Maurice


From benn at cenix-bioscience.com  Tue Apr 27 09:38:28 2004
From: benn at cenix-bioscience.com (Neil Benn)
Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2004 15:38:28 +0200
Subject: xml.parsers.expat vs. xml.sax
In-Reply-To: <pan.2004.04.27.12.16.24.174430@thomas-guettler.de>
References: <pan.2004.04.27.12.16.24.174430@thomas-guettler.de>
Message-ID: <408E6254.2050901@cenix-bioscience.com>

Hello,

          I'm fairly new to Python but I've had a fair bit of experience 
in SAX. 

    Basically xml.sax.XMLReader is a simple implementation that doesn't 
do anything when you call parse, setFeature etc.  Expat is an 
implementation of the XMLReader, therefore in actual fact you will never 
know that you are using Expat as an SAX XMLReader implmentation and you 
never should need to know - it is simply returned from make_parser  The 
reason that SAX has this mechanism is that it easily allows you to 
switch implementations in and out.  Take a look at the source code and 
it immediatly becaomes clear!

    This makes more sense in other languages which have formal 
interfaces but Python doesn't have such a thing (although you can 
acheive the same effect in other ways if you so desire).

PS I'm new to Python so if that's wrong for the Python SAX 
implementation then please let me know!

Cheers,

Neil

Thomas Guettler wrote:

>Hi!
>
>What are the difference between xml.parsers.expat
>and xml.sax?
>
>Up to now I used xml.sax.make_parser and subclass
>from ContentHandler.
>
>I think xml.sax.make_parser uses expat as default.
>Why should I want to use xml.parsers.expat?
>
> Regards,
>  Thomas
>
>  
>

-- 

Neil Benn
Senior Automation Engineer
Cenix BioScience
PfotenhauerStrasse 108
D-01307
Dresden
Germany

Tel : +49 (351) 210 1300
e-mail : benn at cenix-bioscience.com
Cenix Website : http://www.cenix-bioscience.com




From python at holdenweb.com  Wed Apr 14 20:50:46 2004
From: python at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2004 20:50:46 -0400
Subject: Simple discussion of python cgi approaches?
In-Reply-To: <153fa67.0404131857.7956595e@posting.google.com>
References: <153fa67.0404121727.45b23c30@posting.google.com>
	<UZSec.630$2e6.71@lakeread01>
	<153fa67.0404131857.7956595e@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <K%kfc.1555$2e6.671@lakeread01>

Kylotan wrote:
[...]
> 
> The main problem I face is that I don't know what platform my scripts
> will
> eventually run on. I may not have the ability to install extra
> software so I
> need to keep my scripts close to the CGI standard. That is, one file
> per script,
> using the cgi module for form processing and print for output. I don't
> mind
> having to redirect stdout or call these scripts indirectly instead of
> via
> their __main__ functions, but writing to specific APIs (beyond a small
> wrapper
> layer, of course) is not an option at the moment.
> 
> So I'm hoping for simple solutions that will involve no more than a
> few changes
> to each script, whereas most of the solutions that seem to be
> available require
> me to use their own request objects, or to treat pages as callable
> functions within an overall page as mod_python seems to require.
> 

Well, what you've just said probably rules out both the approaches I 
chose to write about, but you've also defined your problem much more 
closely and so someone else migth be able to offer more helpful advice.

regards
  Steve



From hanzhupeng at kingsoft.net  Fri Apr  2 01:13:31 2004
From: hanzhupeng at kingsoft.net (cn99)
Date: Fri, 2 Apr 2004 14:13:31 +0800
Subject: newbie comes.
Message-ID: <c4j0ba$1e3o$1@mail.cn99.com>

Hi, all Highhands   :) this is a title for professors in China





From __peter__ at web.de  Sun Apr 11 03:05:48 2004
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Sun, 11 Apr 2004 09:05:48 +0200
Subject: about streamtoken
References: <mailman.521.1081654910.20120.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <c5aqoc$15f$00$1@news.t-online.com>

Lin Armis wrote:

> hi all:
> In java,there is streamtoken method to deal with input string.
> how does the python do this work?
> Supposed that input "aa/dd/as/23/a22",I wanna  the string "23" change to
> int('23'),but how can I tell the diffrent between '23'and 'aa' in the all
> strings?in java ,I can use streamtoken to recognize the number type and
> string type from input,but i dont know how is in Python.

Here is one simplistic way to do it:

>>> s = "aa/dd/as/23/a22"
>>> def convert(s, converters=[int, float]):
...     for c in converters:
...             try:
...                     return c(s)
...             except ValueError:
...                     pass
...     return s
...
>>> a = [convert(t) for t in s.split("/")]
>>> a
['aa', 'dd', 'as', 23, 'a22']

Use introspection to detect a token's type:
>>> isinstance(a[0], int)
False
>>> isinstance(a[3], int)
True

For more complicated input you could use regular expressions.

Peter



From peter at engcorp.com  Wed Apr 21 08:44:20 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2004 08:44:20 -0400
Subject: CamelCase versus wide_names (Prothon)
In-Reply-To: <1082549174.163233@ns.topconrd.ru>
References: <UHxfc.9323$dZ1.3740@fed1read04>
	<6ee58e07.0404192141.2229efd6@posting.google.com>
	<c62e05$6oraj$1@ID-99293.news.uni-berlin.de>
	<i93hc.13733$dZ1.8818@fed1read04>
	<mailman.789.1082458674.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<1082549174.163233@ns.topconrd.ru>
Message-ID: <cPGdnXbI_Y458Rvd4p2dnA@powergate.ca>

Sergei Organov wrote:

> Gerrit <gerrit at nl.linux.org> writes:
> 
> 
>>Mark Hahn wrote:
>>
>>>"William Park" <opengeometry at yahoo.ca> wrote ...
>>>
>>>Someone else already mentioned this
>>>
>>>>>problem:
>>>>>
>>>>>   smtp_message <-> SMTPMessage <-> SmtpMessage
>>>
>>>If you consider the capital letter as just a replacement for the underbar,
>>>then the answer is definitely smtpMessage.  I don't see any problem.
>>
>>SMTP is an acronym. Because it's an acronym, it's most often spelled in
>>allcaps.
> 
> 
> Yet nobody mentioned that we don't have lower-case digits ;)
> 
> usb201_driver <-> usb201Driver <-> usb2??Driver

usbTwoOhOneDriver ?  ;-)


From sly_raymond at charter.net  Mon Apr 26 04:44:57 2004
From: sly_raymond at charter.net (slyraymond)
Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2004 03:44:57 -0500
Subject: Trouble Understanding O'Reilly Example
References: <108p21f7asq1cc8@corp.supernews.com>
	<108p2o7j6lqqmc5@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <108piuodmckpd71@corp.supernews.com>

So the book contains a typo.

Hmm.  What's amusing about this particular typo is that on the very next
page the authors give the result of the function call, and the erroneous
result is consistent with the code:

(from p. 215):
"C:\Python22>python mins.py
 2"

...a double typo!

Chris wrote:

> slyraymond wrote:
> 
>> def min1(*args):
>> res = args[0]
>> for arg in args[1:]:
>> if arg < args:
>> res = arg
>> return res
> Apologizing for whatever damage knode did to the formatting, try:
> 
> if arg < res:
> 
> instead of
> 
> if arg < args
> 
> For debugging purposes, add the line
> 
> print args
> 
> just before the return statement to see exactly what is going on.
> 
> Chris



From ae  Sun Apr 11 14:43:36 2004
From: ae (A Evans)
Date: Sun, 11 Apr 2004 11:43:36 -0700
Subject: Python OS
Message-ID: <107j4eu6ffn2c68@corp.supernews.com>

I have a question concerning the development of Python Based Operating
System. You see I have had sort of a dream to develop an Open Source
Operating System that would revolutionize the OS market and Since I started
using Python I have fallen in love with the language. Reading articles here
and there I have read that Python is a more secure language than C. I also
read another article (I can't remember which) saying Python would not be
able to develop an OS. I don't believe its true however. I am by no means a
programmer at this stage. But as I learn more and more I see Python as the
Holy Grail of programming languages

My questions would then be, is Python capable of creating an OS from scratch
and if so would it be plausible if possible

Cheers

A python NewBie - Man I hate that term does anyone else

See Ya




From jepler at unpythonic.net  Mon Apr  5 12:08:05 2004
From: jepler at unpythonic.net (Jeff Epler)
Date: Mon, 5 Apr 2004 11:08:05 -0500
Subject: Python and USB
In-Reply-To: <407162b0$1@news.vo.lu>
References: <407162b0$1@news.vo.lu>
Message-ID: <20040405160805.GE11343@unpythonic.net>

Marco,
I have some custom USB hardware that I wanted to use from Python.
I wrote a C library that called libusb routines, then wrapped my library
with Pyrex.

I am very pleased with the results!  It even worked on Windows after a
little work, using libusb-win32.

Main page for this project:
    http://unpy.net/avr/usb/uavrp/
The Pyrex module:
    http://unpy.net/avr/usb/uavrp/uavrp-1.0/avr.pyx
The C library:
    http://unpy.net/avr/usb/uavrp/uavrp-1.0/hostlib.c

Jeff



From python at rcn.com  Mon Apr  5 02:16:24 2004
From: python at rcn.com (Raymond Hettinger)
Date: 4 Apr 2004 23:16:24 -0700
Subject: __nonzero__ of iterators
References: <c4gjup$615$1@ttt14.vie.at.tttech.ttt>
	<106qopdnqbd0164@news.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <5d83790c.0404042216.2478ecf8@posting.google.com>

[Christian Eder]
> > I just discovered the following pitfall in Python 2.3.
> > Consider the following code :
> >
> >  >>> a = {}
> >  >>> bool (a.keys ())
>  False
> >  >>> bool (a.iterkeys ())
> > True
> >
> > So, an "empty" iterator evaluates to True in boolean context.
> > At a first glance, this is not what one would expect. This causes
> > several problems, e.g. if you operate on something expected to be
> > sequence, and you guard your code with "if seq :" to avoid crashing into
> > an empty sequence, you still crash if you get an empty iterator, even if
> > the rest of your code is able to deal with an iterator as well as with
> > any other sequence type.

This was fixed in Py2.4:

Python 2.4a0 (#46, Apr  4 2004, 05:21:08) [MSC v.1200 32 bit (Intel)]
on win32
IDLE 1.1a0      
>>> d = dict(a=1, b=2, c=3)
>>> it = d.iterkeys()
>>> bool(it)
True
>>> list(it)
['a', 'c', 'b']
>>> bool(it)
False



[John Roth]
> One of the issues is that the iterator many not be able, even in
> principle, be able to figure out whether there is, in fact, a next
> element. Consider a pipe or an internet connection.
> 
> However, you're talking about the special iterator that the
> dictionary object returns. I'm not sure whether this behavior
> is a bug or a feature. It would clearly be possible for that
> iterator object to proxy the __nonzero__ call to the basic
> dictionary object, and from what you show, it doesn't do so.
> 
> I belive this is a quite different issue from a "has next" type
> of function.

Right.  So, the only iterators that provide knowledge of their length
are the ones like dictionaries that know what lies ahead.  For the
rest, the behavior is unchanged (i.e. they do not provide a __len__()
method).


Raymond Hettinger


From loic at fejoz.net  Fri Apr 16 05:38:42 2004
From: loic at fejoz.net (Yermat)
Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2004 11:38:42 +0200
Subject: Aspect Programming Module
In-Reply-To: <slrnc7v5re.3vo.alf@largo.fayauffre.org>
References: <84fc4588.0404140106.3fa0c55@posting.google.com>
	<slrnc7q1ss.1aa.alf@largo.fayauffre.org>
	<cb035744.0404141130.170f51c4@posting.google.com>
	<8ef9bea6.0404142155.90b41ef@posting.google.com>
	<407E394B.2050709@mxm.dk> <slrnc7shnn.vp.alf@largo.fayauffre.org>
	<c5o27l$298$1@arcturus.ciril.fr>
	<slrnc7v5re.3vo.alf@largo.fayauffre.org>
Message-ID: <c5o9lh$4gm$1@arcturus.ciril.fr>

Alexandre Fayolle wrote:
> Le 16-04-2004, Yermat <loic at fejoz.net> a ?crit :
> 
> 
>>Does it help ?
> 
> 
> Well, yes and no. I agree that this is how AOP can be made to work in
> Python (aand your implementation is not conceptually very different from
> logilab.aspect (except that the module has some entry points for
> choosing which methods are tied to the aspect)
> 
> However, I would not call this a "mixin" (which was the key word in my
> question). My vision of a mixin implies (maybe wrongly) some
> responsibilities to be added or customized through multiple inheritance 
> to a given class by a mixin class. This supposes that the originial
> class was designed with the mixin in mind. 
> 

Oups sorry !
So maybe something like the following.
In fact, I'm really wondering what is really AOP. It seems just like 
code factorization after all and use it only on some instance !

class LoggerAOP(object):
     def __init__(self, f, name):
         self.f = f
         self.name = name

     def __call__(self, *args, **keywords):
         if callable(self.f):
             print "calling %s" % self.name
             result = self.f(*args, **keywords)
             print "end of call %s" % self.name
             return result
         raise TypeError, "%s not callable" % self.name


class FunctionLoggerClass(object):

     def __getattribute__(self, attrName):
         realAttr = object.__getattribute__(self, attrName)
         if callable(realAttr):
             return LoggerAOP(realAttr, attrName)
         return realAttr

class MyClass(object):
     def __init__(self, name):
         self.name = name

     def foo(self, a):
         return "%s say hello to %s" % (self.name, a)


class SpecMyClass(FunctionLoggerClass, MyClass):
     pass

m = SpecMyClass("Yermat")
print m.name
print m.foo("world")

-- 
Yermat



From peter at engcorp.com  Wed Apr 28 15:24:02 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Wed, 28 Apr 2004 15:24:02 -0400
Subject: Path ... where is my application's home dir?
In-Reply-To: <c6ovte$5im$1@biggoron.nerim.net>
References: <mailman.81.1083164606.25742.python-list@python.org>
	<Xns94D9B0A6BEE74duncanrcpcouk@127.0.0.1>
	<c6ovte$5im$1@biggoron.nerim.net>
Message-ID: <p8WdnYsB5t5PmQ3dRVn-hw@powergate.ca>

Yermat wrote:

> Duncan Booth a ?crit :
> And for the user dir, you can do (at least on Win2000, not try elsewhere) :
> os.getenv('HOMEDRIVE') + os.getenv('HOMEPATH')

Also works on WinXP. (And the last statistic I saw showed Win98
users at something like 2% of the Windows-using population,
so perhaps we can almost forget about it...  ?)

-Peter


From piro at officine.it  Wed Apr 28 12:46:46 2004
From: piro at officine.it (Daniele Varrazzo)
Date: Wed, 28 Apr 2004 18:46:46 +0200
Subject: Formatting Currency According to Locale
Message-ID: <GKEBLAIAHOIHHOJGAOKJCEMHCCAA.piro@officine.it>

Hi everybody

Is there any way to make the most of locale.localeconv() in formatting currencies?

I can use many tricks as
>>> locale.setlocale(locale.LC_ALL, locale.getlocale())
>>> lc = locale.localeconv()
>>>
>>> cash = 1427.48
>>> print "%s%s" % (
	lc['currency_symbol'],
	locale.format('%.*f', (lc['frac_digits'],cash), 1))
?1.427,48

But that presumes many things, such as 
lc['mon_grouping'] == lc['grouping'] # format uses the latter value, doesn't he?
lc['p_sign_posn'] == 3 # else i must change the format string, 
	# maybe building a mapping to order the pieces, splitting + and - cases...

I'm using...
Python 2.3.2 (#49, Oct 24 2003, 13:37:57) [MSC v.1200 32 bit (Intel)] on win32
... and watching localeconv(), i also see many other not much documented details: 
n_cs_precedes, n_sep_by_space... 

Is it up to me to write a function to keep all these details into account?

Bye

Daniele




From jules at REMOVETHIS.op59.net  Mon Apr 12 18:18:40 2004
From: jules at REMOVETHIS.op59.net (Julian Smith)
Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2004 23:18:40 +0100
Subject: How to kill a SocketServer?
References: <c5e6k3$jf4$1@newshispeed.ch> <c5ed3b$drg$06$1@news.t-online.com>
	<c5esmh$h8$1@newshispeed.ch> <86GdndxCWrGil-bdRVn-gw@powergate.ca>
Message-ID: <20040412231840.630157e5.jules@REMOVETHIS.op59.net>

On Mon, 12 Apr 2004 17:29:35 -0400
Peter Hansen <peter at engcorp.com> wrote:

> Jean-Pierre Bergamin wrote:
> > The accept() call still won't get interrupted. :-(
> > 
> > Other ideas?
> 
> You have three choices.
> 
> 1. Run your server as a separate process, communicating with it
> via some kind of RPC, and just kill it when desired.
> 
> 2. Use non-blocking sockets.  This is the standard and
> simplest approach in many ways.
> 
> 3. Arrange to have one thread open a socket connection to the
> application, waking up your accept()ing thread.  Then check
> a flag which tells the server thread to exit.

I have a class that can be constructed from a socket and looks like a file
object, but whose blocking read() method can be interrupted by a different
thread. The read() method uses poll() to block on both the real underlying
file descriptor and an internal file descriptor created using os.pipe().

It works on OpenBSD and Cygwin, but I haven't tried it on anything else yet.
I'm a relative newcomer to Python, so I'm sure there are some subleties that
I've missed.

See http://www.op59.net/cancelable.py if you're interested.

> 
> By definition, blocking calls block, and you can't safely kill
> a thread in Python so pick one from the above and run with it...
> 
> -Peter


- Julian

-- 
http://www.op59.net


From maxm at mxm.dk  Mon Apr 19 10:57:43 2004
From: maxm at mxm.dk (Max M)
Date: Mon, 19 Apr 2004 16:57:43 +0200
Subject: outline-style sorting algorithm
In-Reply-To: <mailman.755.1082380154.20120.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.755.1082380154.20120.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <4083E8E7.8060503@mxm.dk>

jwsacksteder at ramprecision.com wrote:
 > I have a need to sort a list of elements that represent sections of a
 > document in dot-separated notation. The built in sort does the wrong 
thing.

Not really. You are giving it a list of strings, and it sort those 
alphabetically. That seems like the right thing to me ;-)

 > This seems a rather complex problem and I was hoping someone smarter 
than me
 > had already worked out the best way to approach this. For example, 
consider
 > the following list-

 >>>>foo
 >
 > ['1.0', '1.0.1', '1.1.1', '1.2', '1.9', '1.10', '1.11', '1.20', '1.20.1',
 > '1.30']

You need to convert them to another datatype first. Your best bet here 
would be a list or a tuple, as they can map directly to your data.

'1.0.1'.split('.') == [1,0,1]

But list are a bit easier here.

foo_as_tuples = [f.split('.') for f in foo]
foo_as_tuples.sort()

Then you must convert it back to strings again.

foo = ['.'.join(f) for f in foo_as_tuples]

There is a standard way of sorting quickly in python, called 
decorate-sort-undecorate. It is allmost the same example as before:


decorated = [(itm.split('.'),itm) for itm in foo]
decorated.sort()
foo = [d[-1] for d in decorated]

regards Max M



From usenet_spam at janc.invalid  Mon Apr 19 17:09:17 2004
From: usenet_spam at janc.invalid (JanC)
Date: Mon, 19 Apr 2004 21:09:17 GMT
Subject: os.system help
References: <78lgc.3445$AL1.7744@news1.mts.net>
	<Pine.LNX.4.44.0404172009580.3096-100000@e5-05.ee.ualberta.ca>
	<Ywngc.3629$AL1.8293@news1.mts.net>
	<pan.2004.04.18.12.39.41.82175@jeremysanders.net>
	<5Lzgc.4355$AL1.9508@news1.mts.net>
Message-ID: <Xns94D0EB8B1687AJanC@213.119.4.35>

Reid Nichol <rnichol_rrc at yahoo.com> schreef:

> The registry contains certain data but not *exactly* the data I need.  I 
> could construct from that but according to the docs it's quite new so 
> I'd rather not use it.

I did this 2 years ago (using a NSIS 1.x install script to change a batch 
file) and it worked for everyone who tested & used it then (at least 10 
people, maybe more).  I think most of them had a 7.x GS version.
(Maybe some 6.x versions too, but I don't remember exactly.)

Two years isn't that "quite new" anymore...

-- 
JanC

"Be strict when sending and tolerant when receiving."
RFC 1958 - Architectural Principles of the Internet - section 3.9


From peter at engcorp.com  Mon Apr 26 19:55:06 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2004 19:55:06 -0400
Subject: Compiler
In-Reply-To: <q6gjc.1945$VA1.1741@doctor.cableinet.net>
References: <q6gjc.1945$VA1.1741@doctor.cableinet.net>
Message-ID: <hs-dnd24VPrHPBDdRVn-hQ@powergate.ca>

Steven wrote:

> Just curious, is there a python compiler?
> Or something that creates bytecode, like java?

Yes.  They are the same thing.  Javac compiles Java source
to Java bytecode.  C compilers compile C source to
machine-specific bytecode (called machine code).  Python
compiles Python source to Python bytecode.  The main
difference is that Python does this transparently behind
your back whenever the source has change, while many other
languages that do it require a separate manual step...

-Peter


From no.email at please.com  Fri Apr  9 19:53:46 2004
From: no.email at please.com (Stevie_mac)
Date: Sat, 10 Apr 2004 00:53:46 +0100
Subject: Simple Class Question - need clarity please
References: <EYFdc.51749$Id.27192@news-binary.blueyonder.co.uk>
	<2tce701vv505395hcr6dqtvc8ot0fdmkrk@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <c57d1q$1euk$1@news.wplus.net>

> Its a good idea to post the entire error traceback so we see the
> actual line of code the error refers to. This error usually means
> you accessed a name from a module without prefixing it with the
> module name. But so far as I can see you haven't done that here.

# mywindow.py #
import win32con, win32ui
from pywin.mfc import dialog #, window
class Window:
    def MakeDlgTemplate(self):
        style = win32con.DS_MODALFRAME | win32con.WS_POPUP | win32con.WS_VISIBLE | win32con.WS_CAPTION |
win32con.WS_SYSMENU | win32con.DS_SETFONT
        dlg = [ ["My Dialog", (0, 0, 100, 100), style, None, (8, "MS Sans Serif")], ]
        s = win32con.BS_PUSHBUTTON | win32con.WS_CHILD | win32con.WS_VISIBLE
        dlg.append([128, "Cancel", win32con.IDCANCEL, (55, 80, 40, 16), s])
        return dlg
    def DoModal(self):
        mw = win32ui.CreateDialogIndirect( self.MakeDlgTemplate() )
        mw.DoModal()

import mywindow
class MyClass(mywindow.Window):
    def Show(self):
        self.DoModal()

t = MyClass()
t.Show()

#ERROR OUTPUT
File "C:\My Python Stuff\window\test.py", line 7, in ?
    t.Show()
  File "C:\My Python Stuff\window\test.py", line 4, in Show
    self.DoModal()
  File "C:\My Python Stuff\window\mywindow.py", line 12, in DoModal
    mw = win32ui.CreateDialogIndirect( self.MakeDlgTemplate() )
NameError: global name 'MakeDlgTemplate' is not defined





From peter at engcorp.com  Sat Apr 24 15:39:23 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Sat, 24 Apr 2004 15:39:23 -0400
Subject: ioctl(2) ?
In-Reply-To: <mailman.7.1082832894.27400.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.7.1082832894.27400.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <4qqdnSHVRZnxXxfd4p2dnA@powergate.ca>

Peter Luciak wrote:

> is there any way to do a ioctl in python? I didn't find it in the os
> module...

http://docs.python.org/lib/module-fcntl.html


From rick.ratzel at magma-da.com  Fri Apr 16 18:51:07 2004
From: rick.ratzel at magma-da.com (Rick Ratzel)
Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2004 17:51:07 -0500
Subject: Initializing Python in Optimized mode from C++
In-Reply-To: <dd7b0c71.0404161034.3173e132@posting.google.com>
References: <dd7b0c71.0404161034.3173e132@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <4080635b$0$46515$39cecf19@news.twtelecom.net>

JT wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> When embedding Python in C++, is there anyway to initialize the
> interpreter so that it runs in optimized mode, equivalent to
> specifying the -O flag when running the interpreter from the command
> line?
> 
> Thanks,
> John

    set Py_OptimizeFlag to 1 for -O, and 2 for -OO.  Do this prior to 
calling Py_Initialize();

    You can also improve your startup time by setting
Py_NoSiteFlag = 1...assuming you don't need to load site.py

    for example:

extern int Py_OptimizeFlag;
extern int Py_NoSiteFlag;
...
if( !Py_IsInitialized() ) {
    Py_OptimizeFlag = 2;
    Py_NoSiteFlag = 1;
    Py_Initialize();
}


From jdhunter at ace.bsd.uchicago.edu  Thu Apr 29 17:42:11 2004
From: jdhunter at ace.bsd.uchicago.edu (John Hunter)
Date: Thu, 29 Apr 2004 16:42:11 -0500
Subject: MATLAB2Python
In-Reply-To: <c6rr9b$5oa$1@news1.ucsd.edu> (Robert Kern's message of "Thu,
	29 Apr 2004 14:15:22 -0700")
References: <D2Xjc.28117$Qc.1080799@twister1.libero.it>
	<1090ivtaa0b2e26@corp.supernews.com> <40904EDE.9060407@erols.com>
	<715kc.3$i6.251@psinet-eu-nl>
	<mailman.111.1083249490.25742.python-list@python.org>
	<Nldkc.29552$Qc.1128825@twister1.libero.it>
	<c6rr9b$5oa$1@news1.ucsd.edu>
Message-ID: <m2smembgwc.fsf@mother.paradise.lost>

>>>>> "Robert" == Robert Kern <rkern at ucsd.edu> writes:

    Robert> Do you mind a hefty download? If not, then try Enthought's
    Robert> distribution of Python[1]. matplotlib seems to have an exe
    Robert> installer for Windows, so I assume it's straightforward.

    Robert> But, in short, that order is correct (the last three all
    Robert> depend on Numeric).

    Robert> [1] http://www.enthought.com/python/

Seconded - that is what I recommend on the matplotlib web site for
windows users - enthought then matplotlib.  See the windows section on
http://matplotlib.sourceforge.net/installing.html.  enthought will
give you numeric and scipy (and VTK which is awesome for 3D) and
almost all of matplotlib will work out of the box with enthought on
windows.

matplotlib supports different GUI environments.  On windows tkagg or
wxagg are the natural choices and they come with enthought.  On a
modern linux box, gtkagg is a natural choice, but may require you to
upgrade your pygtk (grkagg also runs great on windows but require a
couple of extra packages).  Switching between backends on different
platforms is mainly seamless - your matplotlib scripts are unchanged
and the navigation controls are the same.  The choice is made in a
configuration file
http://matplotlib.sourceforge.net/faq.html#MATPLOTLIBRC See
http://matplotlib.sourceforge.net/backends.html and
http://matplotlib.sourceforge.net/faq.html#WHICHBACKEND for details.

As for install order on linux, something like

  python2.2 or later
  a python GUI (wxpython, tkinter, or pygtk)
  numeric or numarray 
  scipy (optional)
  matplotlib   # set the numerix var to reflect your numarray/numpy choice

matplotlib provides a numeric/numarray compatibility interface
(written by Todd Miller, one of lead numarray developers) so you can
work with either numeric or numarray transparently.  Be forewarned
that scipy uses numeric so you may want to go with this if you plan on
using scipy heavily.

JDH



From jacek.generowicz at cern.ch  Tue Apr  6 10:12:54 2004
From: jacek.generowicz at cern.ch (Jacek Generowicz)
Date: 06 Apr 2004 16:12:54 +0200
Subject: Does Python compete with Java?
References: <8b336527.0404051337.51bb4a1b@posting.google.com>
	<1073su4etm95p35@news.supernews.com>
	<roy-094613.21022405042004@reader1.panix.com>
	<cpxcc.2747$BF2.522023@news20.bellglobal.com>
Message-ID: <tyfhdvxxkih.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>

Chris Herborth <chrish at cryptocard.com> writes:

> One of Python's most awesome features (IMHO at least) is that you can
> fire up an interactive interpreter while you're writing your code, and
> try things out as you go... using this technique, I've unit tested
> methods and algorithms interactively and ended up with useful,
> non-trivial applications that run and work properly the first time.
> 
> 
> With compiled languages (Java, C#, C++), I find I'm writing a bit of
  ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> code, taking a break to compile it, figuring out how to unit test the
> method... Python saves me a huge amount of time in the prototype and
> development cycles.

Please note that this has nothing to do with compilation per-se. There
are languages with to-native-binary compilers which give you all the
instant turnaround flexibility that Python does.

Indeed, there are even some development environments for the languages
you mention which try to provide a similar experience.


From armislin at hotmail.com  Sat Apr 10 23:41:46 2004
From: armislin at hotmail.com (Lin Armis)
Date: Sun, 11 Apr 2004 11:41:46 +0800
Subject: about streamtoken
Message-ID: <BAY12-F15MnDgh21qbM00026263@hotmail.com>

hi all:
In java,there is streamtoken method to deal with input string.
how does the python do this work?
Supposed that input "aa/dd/as/23/a22",I wanna  the string "23" change to 
int('23'),but how can I tell the diffrent between '23'and 'aa' in the all 
strings?in java ,I can use streamtoken to recognize the number type and 
string type from input,but i dont know how is in Python.

cheers,

Mian

_________________________________________________________________
???? MSN Explorer:   http://explorer.msn.com/lccn/  




From bjg at network-theory.co.uk  Thu Apr 29 10:27:40 2004
From: bjg at network-theory.co.uk (Brian Gough)
Date: 29 Apr 2004 15:27:40 +0100
Subject: reading and removing first x bytes of a file
References: <c6r1rc$kl5$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu>
Message-ID: <87isfihnab.fsf@network-theory.co.uk>

bart_nessux <bart_nessux at hotmail.com> writes:

> I have some Macbinary files on a PC. I want to recursively read these 
> files and remove the first 128 bytes of the files if they contain the 
> macbinary header info. I know how to read directories recursively, but 
> how would I read the first 128 bytes of each file in the path?

You can use the file object .seek() and .read() methods to move around
in the file and read parts of it.

There is an example in the "Input and Output" chapter of the Python
Tutorial.

-- 
Brian Gough

Network Theory Ltd,
Publishing the Python Manuals --- http://www.network-theory.co.uk/


From nospam at here.com  Sat Apr 10 13:44:24 2004
From: nospam at here.com (Richard Townsend)
Date: Sat, 10 Apr 2004 18:44:24 +0100
Subject: New user - Now what ?
References: <mailman.509.1081613077.20120.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3rWdc.31611$Y%6.3949707@wards.force9.net>

> Any tutorials I can use to utilise Python on my web-pages ?
>

http://www.python.org/
http://docs.python.org/tut/tut.html
http://www.python.org/doc/Intros.html
http://www.python.org/topics/web/





From adwser at hotmail.com  Tue Apr 27 12:54:26 2004
From: adwser at hotmail.com (jtd)
Date: 27 Apr 2004 09:54:26 -0700
Subject: Non-blocking connect BLOCKS
Message-ID: <c57c103.0404270854.48c2f8be@posting.google.com>

Hi all,

I'm using asyncore to download a large list of web pages, and I've
noticed dispatcher.connect blocks for some hosts. I was under the
impression that non-blocking sockets do not block on connects, in
addition to reads and writes. My connect code is essentially the same
as the asyncore example:

http://docs.python.org/lib/asyncore-example.html

It seems unlikely that I am the first to encounter this problem, can
someone explain what's wrong and suggest a remedy?

Rob


From peter at engcorp.com  Fri Apr  2 06:48:27 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Fri, 02 Apr 2004 06:48:27 -0500
Subject: Travelling salesman variation in python
In-Reply-To: <slrnc6op8l.spl.erlendga@tva.ifi.uio.no>
References: <slrnc6on9h.spl.erlendga@tva.ifi.uio.no>
	<c4ho3l$4he$1@news.service.uci.edu>
	<slrnc6op8l.spl.erlendga@tva.ifi.uio.no>
Message-ID: <W8GdnX-dQs2WzvDd4p2dnA@powergate.ca>

Erlend Andreas Garberg wrote:

> In article <c4ho3l$4he$1 at news.service.uci.edu>, Josiah Carlson wrote:
> 
>>Look at current TSP algorithms, and exchange their minimization rutines 
>>for a maximization rutine.  TSP is an NP-hard problem, which means that 
>>there is no currently known algorithm for solving it in polynomial time. 
>>  You can approximate it or do a search on the solution space, but 
>>solving it requires searching basically all of the solution space.
> 
> An approximate solution would be good enough, do you have any 
> suggestions about how do do that?

I haven't tried it for such a case, but have you considered a
genetic algorithm approach?  Since you say an approximate solution
is good enough, I would think a GA could vastly shrink the search
space that has to be covered to get "close", assuming that data is
not such that hidden somewhere in it is a single link which has
an associated number that is vastly higher than the others.  (That
would tend to make the GA search even worse than a brute force
approach.)

-Peter


From anton at vredegoor.doge.nl  Sat Apr  3 16:57:25 2004
From: anton at vredegoor.doge.nl (Anton Vredegoor)
Date: Sat, 03 Apr 2004 23:57:25 +0200
Subject: Working with bytes.
References: <406EE606.4000604@yahoo.com>
	<mailman.308.1081013778.20120.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <406f33b6$0$30963$3a628fcd@reader1.nntp.hccnet.nl>

"Adam T. Gautier" <adam_gautier at yahoo.com> wrote:

>I came up with a solution using the binascii module's hexlify method.

That is the most obvious method, I think. However, the code below
stores 7 bits per byte and still remains ascii-compliant (the
binascii.hexlify method stores 4 bits per byte).

Anton

from itertools import islice

def _bits(i):
    return [('01'[i>>j & 1]) for j in range(8)][::-1] 

_table = dict([(chr(i),_bits(i)) for i in range(256)])

def _bitstream(bytes):
    for byte in bytes:
        for bit in _table[byte]:
            yield bit

def _dropfirst(gen):
    while 1:
        gen.next()
        for x in islice(gen,7):
            yield x

def sevens(bytes):
    """ stream normal bytes to bytes where bit 8 is always 1"""
    gen = _bitstream(bytes)
    while 1:
        R = list(islice(gen,7))
        if not R:  break
        s = '1'+ "".join(R) + '0' * (7-len(R))
        yield chr(int(s,2))

def eights(bytes,n):
    """ the reverse of the sevens function :-) """
    gen = _bitstream(bytes)
    df = _dropfirst(gen)
    for i in xrange(n):
        s =  ''.join(islice(df,8))
        yield chr(int(s,2))
        
def test():
    from random import randint
    size = 40
    R = [chr(randint(0,255)) for i in xrange(size)]
    bytes = ''.join(R)
    sv =  ''.join(sevens(bytes))
    check = ''.join(eights(sv,size))
    assert  check == bytes
    print sv

if __name__ == '__main__': 
    test()

sample output:

 ??????????????????????????????????????????????

 



From jepler at unpythonic.net  Wed Apr 21 19:59:54 2004
From: jepler at unpythonic.net (Jeff Epler)
Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2004 18:59:54 -0500
Subject: Cell objects and their values
In-Reply-To: <DE1CF2B4FEC4A342BF62B6B2B334601E562039@opus.amorhq.net>
References: <DE1CF2B4FEC4A342BF62B6B2B334601E562039@opus.amorhq.net>
Message-ID: <20040421235954.GB13610@unpythonic.net>

This seems to work, but it's undocumented (specifically, func_closure as
an argument to new.function is undocumented) and makes my tummy feel
funny when I think about it.

>>> import new
>>> def cell_get(cell):
...    def f(): return cell
...    return new.function(f.func_code, {}, "f", (), (cell,))()
...    

cell_get's 'f' does LOAD_DEREF 0 / RETURN, new.function() chooses the
created function's func_closure, which is the called right away.

>>> def f():
...    x = 3
...    def g():
...        return x
...    return g.func_closure[0]
...
>>> c = f()
<cell at 0x943b704: int object at 0x93690dc>
>>> cell_get(c)
3

... it works!

Jeff



From gioco at nekhem.com  Mon Apr 19 09:24:18 2004
From: gioco at nekhem.com (Corrado Gioannini)
Date: Mon, 19 Apr 2004 15:24:18 +0200
Subject: outline-style sorting algorithm
In-Reply-To: <71650A6F73F1D411BE8000805F65E3CB3B3A4D@SRV-03>
References: <71650A6F73F1D411BE8000805F65E3CB3B3A4D@SRV-03>
Message-ID: <20040419132417.GA1476@zephyr>

On Mon, Apr 19, 2004 at 09:08:59AM -0400, jwsacksteder at ramprecision.com wrote:
> I have a need to sort a list of elements that represent sections of a
> document in dot-separated notation. The built in sort does the wrong thing.
> This seems a rather complex problem and I was hoping someone smarter than me
> had already worked out the best way to approach this. For example, consider
> the following list-
I think you should use a sort function built for this special case.
For example you can sort items comparing map(int, item.split('.'))

>>> cmp(map(int, '1.20.1'.split('.')), map(int, '1.9'.split('.')))
1

that is:

>>> cmp([1,20,1],[1,9])
1

hth,
C.
-- 
                       Thought is only a flash between two long nights,
                                          but this flash is everything.
                                                          (H. Poincar?)





From sean at sands.beach.net  Fri Apr 23 11:11:34 2004
From: sean at sands.beach.net (Sean Berry)
Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2004 15:11:34 GMT
Subject: Setting variable values from dictionary
Message-ID: <Gmaic.35867$Yf6.11336@fed1read07>

If I have a dictionary like the following:

{'category' : 2, 'shape', 4}

How can I use this to make
category = 2 and 
shape = 4.

I want to be able to do this regardless of the dict values type.  So:

{'cateogry' : 2, 'shape' : 'circle'}

will work as well.


Thanks in advance for any help.  You guys rock.

-- 


From loic at fejoz.net  Thu Apr  1 04:57:58 2004
From: loic at fejoz.net (Yermat)
Date: Thu, 01 Apr 2004 11:57:58 +0200
Subject: ANNOUNCE: 'goto' for Python
In-Reply-To: <406bd703$0$14074$626a14ce@news.free.fr>
References: <mailman.210.1080803438.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<406bd703$0$14074$626a14ce@news.free.fr>
Message-ID: <c4gp39$5t5$1@arcturus.ciril.fr>

Bruno Desthuilliers wrote:
> Richie Hindle wrote:
> 
>> Entrian Solutions is pleased to announce version 1.0 of the 'goto' 
>> module.
>>
>> This adds the 'goto' and 'comefrom' keywords to Python 2.3, adding
>> flexibility to Python's control flow mechanisms and allowing Python
>> programmers to use many common control flow idioms that were previously
>> denied to them.
>>
> Trop gros, passera pas... !-)
> 

What is the day today ? Oh yes the first of April !



From fgeiger at datec.at  Sat Apr 24 03:20:42 2004
From: fgeiger at datec.at (F. GEIGER)
Date: Sat, 24 Apr 2004 09:20:42 +0200
Subject: [OT] Plone
References: <6ukic.84257$cd.5573763@phobos.telenet-ops.be>
Message-ID: <c6d4go$k20$1@newshispeed.ch>

Plone is based on Zope, i.e. Plone := Zope + CMS-components.

Installation is easy (can speak only for Win2k) and I suggest that you
simply try it. I'm sure that after 2 or 3 hours you know whether or not
Plone is yours.

Cheers
Franz

"flupke" <flupke at nonexistingdomain.com> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:6ukic.84257$cd.5573763 at phobos.telenet-ops.be...
> Hi,
>
> i've read some user comments on Zope. As was to be expected some say
> it's cool, others says it's difficult and not easy to debug.
> I would use Plone as CMS for our intranet which will also be a platform
> for our tools. Does plone make it even more difficult to get going or does
> it
> hide some of the difficulties of Zope?
> I'm kind of in a dillema here, the more i read about Python, the more i
like
> it. As it seems mod_python/FCGI is a good combo to bring Python power
> to the web but since they want a CMS and i don't have time to write one
> from the ground up, i'm thinking of using Plone.
> I have my doubts about Zope especially from the viewpoint
> of administration. I will have to maitain the systems where it runs on
also.
>
> Any comments?
> flupke
>
>
>




From mail at markus-franz.de  Thu Apr 22 13:25:29 2004
From: mail at markus-franz.de (Markus Franz)
Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2004 19:25:29 +0200
Subject: Main-process doesn't wait for child-processes
Message-ID: <c68v6c$hcg$02$1@news.t-online.com>

Hi.

I created a little script:

for currenturl in sys.argv[1:]:
    pid = os.fork()
    if pid == 0:
            signal.alarm(10)
             do_something()  # placeholder for the download and print
routine
            break

This script  is started by ./script.py http://www.website1.com
http://www.website2.com
As you see it creates child-processes for loading all websites specified on
the command line. (So all websites are loaded in parallel.) Each
child-process simply load a websites and print the contents to STDOUT (above
replaced by do_something).
(With signal.alarm(10) I make sure that each child-process will not run
longer than 10 seconds.)


But now I have a difficult problem: This script is executed by a
comand-line-function (shell_exec) in PHP, the response of the Python-script
is used inside the PHP application. In the python script the main process
seem to stop immediately after starting the script, only the child-processes
seem to run. Because of this my PHP application will not wait untill the
child-processes have finised and so I can't use the contents of the
websites. (I think the solution should be that the main-process waits untill
the child-processes terminate.)

Now my question is: How can I force the main-process to wait untill every
child-process is finished?
I tried:

for currenturl in sys.argv[1:]:
    pid = os.fork()
    if pid == 0:
            signal.alarm(10)
             do_something()  # placeholder for the download and print
routine
            break
    else:
        os.wait()

The version above behaves like a script that loads all given websites in
sequence...
I also tried:

for currenturl in sys.argv[1:]:
    pid = os.fork()
    if pid == 0:
            signal.alarm(10)
             do_something()  # placeholder for the download and print
routine
            break
time.sleep(4)

That didn't help me, too.

The following is a PHP application that may help you to understand the bad
behavoir of my application (you will guess my problem if you execute both
the PHP and the Python script):

<?php
echo shell_exec('./script.py http://www.website1.com
http://www.website2.com');
?>


Thank you.


Best regards

Markus Franz




From imbosol at aerojockey.invalid  Thu Apr  1 23:48:06 2004
From: imbosol at aerojockey.invalid (Carl Banks)
Date: Fri, 02 Apr 2004 04:48:06 GMT
Subject: ftpmirror.py in reverse?
References: <xqxwu4zk599.fsf@cola2.ca.boeing.com>
Message-ID: <ag6bc.4176$bQ3.2741@fe2.columbus.rr.com>

Harry George wrote:
> I maintain a website on a local machine, and want to maintain a clone
> of it on a www-visible remote machine via ftp.  I.e., local to remote.
> 
> Going remote to local, ftpmirror.py would (I understand) do the job.
> 
> Is there some tool available (or even a parameter for ftpmirror.py)
> which can do local-->remote?


I've written such a script.

http://www.aerojockey.com/software/#ftpupsync

It's public domain, use at your own risk, n' at.  It probably doesn't
work on Windows, but wouldn't be hard to modify it to.  Sorry, no
documentation.  I really should document it, tie up loose ends and
package it.

Sorry about the tabs^H^H^H^H Unicode indent characters.


-- 
CARL BANKS                      http://www.aerojockey.com/software
"If you believe in yourself, drink your school, stay on drugs, and
don't do milk, you can get work." 
          -- Parody of Mr. T from a Robert Smigel Cartoon


From daniel.dittmar at sap.com  Mon Apr  5 05:52:54 2004
From: daniel.dittmar at sap.com (Daniel Dittmar)
Date: Mon, 5 Apr 2004 11:52:54 +0200
Subject: Python is faster than C
References: <DE1CF2B4FEC4A342BF62B6B2B334601E561FAC@opus.amorhq.net>
	<mailman.311.1081031736.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<c4qnom$p6j$1@panix1.panix.com>
	<36wn05qkeyk.fsf@hundertwasser.ti.uni-mannheim.de>
Message-ID: <c4ra9m$ski$1@news1.wdf.sap-ag.de>

Matthias wrote:
> That's not a rhetorical question: Why is it that "simplicity of the
> Python VM is an important goal"?

Replace 'simplicity' with 'portability'. This is especially true for JIT
compilers, which are not only complex, but are unportable by design.

> I would guess that overall it pays
> to have a more complex language implementation and be rewarded by
> simpler user code: For any decent language there's much more user code
> out there than language implementation code.

The question is not 'does it pay?', the question is 'who pays?'.

Daniel





From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Thu Apr  1 08:43:41 2004
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 1 Apr 2004 08:43:41 -0500
Subject: Python conference slogan
References: <mailman.189.1080759511.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<kmjsj1-89u.ln1@snout.lairds.org> <c4glmq$j1i$1@swifty.westend.com>
Message-ID: <c4h6ad$lu0$1@panix1.panix.com>

In article <c4glmq$j1i$1 at swifty.westend.com>,
Peter Maas  <fpetermaas at netscape.net> wrote:
>
>I surrender immediately and have to admit that I don't get it (One
>Nation Under Under Python). Google was no help. I couldn't find the
>source, only echoes (seems to be a wide spread joke pattern in the
>US). Care to give us ignorants a hint?

It's from the Pledge of Allegiance:

      I Pledge Allegiance to the flag of the United States of America
       and to the Republic for which it stands, one Nation under God,
               indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.

The "under under" part of course refers to Python's special methods.

See also http://history.vineyard.net/pledge.htm

IIRC, there's currently a court case to remove the "under God" part.
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

"usenet imitates usenet"  --Darkhawk


From paul at prescod.net  Fri Apr  9 20:03:28 2004
From: paul at prescod.net (Paul Prescod)
Date: Fri, 09 Apr 2004 17:03:28 -0700
Subject: Compact Python library for math statistics
In-Reply-To: <3064b51d.0404091308.472dfb78@posting.google.com>
References: <E1B9LoV-0005OQ-00@fatlady.ukr.net>	<mailman.267.1080904644.20120.python-list@python.org>	<3064b51d.0404061038.4d69fd89@posting.google.com>	<5d83790c.0404090024.5cefb2ea@posting.google.com>
	<3064b51d.0404091308.472dfb78@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <407739D0.40907@prescod.net>

beliavsky at aol.com wrote:

>...
> 
> Overall, the Python code below is about 100 times slower than the
> Fortran equivalent. This is a typical ratio I have found for code
> involving loops.
> 
> from math import sqrt
> n = 10000000 + 1
> sum_sqrt = 0.0
> for i in range(1,n):
>     sum_sqrt = sum_sqrt + (float(i))**0.5
> print sum_sqrt

If you rewrite it as Pyrex:

def func5(int n):
     cdef float sum_sqrt
     cdef long int i

     sum_sqrt = 0.0
     for i from 0 <= i < n:
         sum_sqrt = sum_sqrt + i**0.5
     return sum_sqrt

This generates:

   for (i = 0; i < n; ++i) {

     sum_sqrt = (sum_sqrt + pow(i, 0.5));
     __pyx_L2:;
    }

Except for the useless label, this is idiomatic C code and I doubt that 
Fortran is going to be much of any faster given most compilers.

Even so, on my computer, this code is nowhere near 100 times faster than 
the pure Python version. I think you are timing the allocation of a very 
large memory buffer with range(). Consider this alternative:

def func1(n):
         sum_sqrt = 0.0
         for i in xrange(1,n):
              sum_sqrt = sum_sqrt + sqrt(i)
         return sum_sqrt

or

def func2(n):
         return sum(itertools.imap(sqrt, xrange(1, n)))

  Paul Prescod





From RobMEmmons at cs.com  Mon Apr 12 20:34:26 2004
From: RobMEmmons at cs.com (Robert M. Emmons)
Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2004 19:34:26 -0500
Subject: Starting a Python COM server from vb?
In-Reply-To: <fQAec.12308$d8.1258@nwrdny01.gnilink.net>
References: <fQAec.12308$d8.1258@nwrdny01.gnilink.net>
Message-ID: <407B3592.7010508@cs.com>


> Pretty much what it says.
> 
> I've a number of Python services that I'd like to use from vb.  The
> hitch is ensuring the services are started before the VB program tries
> to use them.
> 
> Startup folder isn't a good solution, as folks sometimes putter with
> their startup folder options.
> 
> Is it as simple as exec()-ing the service script?  That IS workable,
> provided VB's exec() function plays nice and allows the service to run.

Maybe I missunderstand -- but as far as I know there are NO reasons to 
RUN anything before you use it.  Only thing you need to do is to 
register your Python COM servers.

When you use them in VB, just instantiate them like any other COM 
object.  Python is not special in any way.

Rob


From fredrik at pythonware.com  Mon Apr 19 13:54:12 2004
From: fredrik at pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Mon, 19 Apr 2004 19:54:12 +0200
Subject: module not callable - why not?
References: <c56jph$rrk$05$1@news.t-online.com><c5tef0$5hf$1@news.service.uci.edu><7xsmf1fxd9.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com><8ef9bea6.0404180956.cd1a152@posting.google.com><c5ultg$ss9$1@panix2.panix.com>
	<8ef9bea6.0404190908.4b130d57@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <c613ne$a03$1@sea.gmane.org>

Hung Jung Lu wrote:

> > That's not the only answer, and it's not the one I use:
> >
> >     import foo
> >     getattr(foo, 'name')
>
> You can't do this when you are inside the module itself.

inside the module, it's spelled

    name

</F>






From junkmail at solumslekt.org  Sat Apr  3 15:35:30 2004
From: junkmail at solumslekt.org (Leif B. Kristensen)
Date: Sat, 03 Apr 2004 22:35:30 +0200
Subject: recursive file editing
References: <pan.2004.04.03.20.25.28.565809@interfree.it>
Message-ID: <ccFbc.4784$zf6.64753@news4.e.nsc.no>

This is a Perl one-liner:

perl -p -i -e 's/foo/bar/gi' `find ./`

regards,
-- 
Leif Biberg Kristensen
http://solumslekt.org/
Validare necesse est


From no.email at please.com  Sun Apr 11 09:09:46 2004
From: no.email at please.com (Stevie_mac)
Date: Sun, 11 Apr 2004 14:09:46 +0100
Subject: Best IDE?
Message-ID: <c5bg1k$25vq$1@news.wplus.net>

This has prolly been asked 100 times - so please refrain from flaming if you can...

What's the best MSwindows editor for python?  I'm currently using PythonWin (ActiveState) at the moment, its a bit
buggy - but not too bad. I mean, its got autocomplete & tips & help & autoindentaion (not always good tho).

Thing is, I'm sure there is something better. Is there?

(is there a VS.NET addin?)




From wweston at att.net  Fri Apr  2 10:31:17 2004
From: wweston at att.net (wes weston)
Date: Fri, 02 Apr 2004 15:31:17 GMT
Subject: splitting one dictionary into two
In-Reply-To: <5d83790c.0404020042.41f4a576@posting.google.com>
References: <5d83790c.0404020042.41f4a576@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <9Hfbc.21085$He5.413767@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>

Raymond Hettinger wrote:
> [jsaul]
> 
>>I have to split a dict into two dicts. Depending on their values,
>>the items shall remain in the original dict or be moved to another
>>one and at the same time be removed from the original dict.
>>
>>OK, this is how I do it right now:
>>
>>    dict1 = { "a":1, "b":3, "c":5, "d":4, "e":2 }
>>    dict2 = {}
>>    klist = []
>>
>>    for key in dict1:
>>        if dict1[key] > 3: # some criterion
>>            dict2[key] = dict1[key]
>>            klist.append(key)
>>
>>    for key in klist:
>>        del dict1[key]
>>
>>    print dict1
>>    print dict2
>>
>>That means that I store the keys of the items to be removed from
>>the original dict in a list (klist) and subsequently remove the
>>items using these keys.
>>
>>Is there an "even more pythonic" way?
> 
> 
> Your way seems clean enough to me.
> 
> One other approach is to use items() so you can modify dict1 as you go:
> 
>     for key, value in dict1.items():
>         if value > 3:
>             dict2[key] = value
>             del dict1[key]
> 
> 
> 
> Raymond Hettinger

Raymond,
    I had the same approach seen above before the
originator added the fact that the starting
dictionaries would typically be "huge". Robert
Brewer timed this method as 5 times slower than
his method which showed me that my obsession with
simplicity needs to be looked at.
wes



From lbates at swamisoft.com  Tue Apr 20 10:07:51 2004
From: lbates at swamisoft.com (Larry Bates)
Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 09:07:51 -0500
Subject: How to check if a path *could* be a legal path?
References: <c62ums$b3b$1@atlantis.news.tpi.pl>
Message-ID: <cYqdnauMDdsosxjd4p2dnA@comcast.com>

It is much easier to put your code that would create the
path inside a try block and just have an exception that
handles the failure.  If most of the time the path is
legal, it is faster also.

Regards,
Larry Bates
Syscon, Inc.

"Maciej Sobczak" <no.spam at no.spam.com> wrote in message
news:c62ums$b3b$1 at atlantis.news.tpi.pl...
> Hi,
>
> I have a string.
> This string is to be used as a path for a new file.
> I would like to check if this string *could be* a valid file name,
> *before* I try to create the file itself.
> In other words, I would like to know whether some string violates the
> underlying OS's policies (or maybe some more restriced policies, but
> portable) considering file paths.
>
> Example:
>
> 1.
> s = 'C:\file.txt'
>
> the above is potentially a valid path on my system.
>
> 2.
> s = 'cc:/^- =#jk\kj+.+?! :-)'
>
> the above is rather invalid and I would like to check it somehow before
> I even try to create the file.
>
> Does the Python library contain a functionality that allows to achieve
> this goal?
>
> -- 
> Maciej Sobczak : http://www.msobczak.com/
> Programming    : http://www.msobczak.com/prog/
>




From reverse.ku.oc.issolok at nothypgnal.delrest.co.uk  Wed Apr 28 04:46:43 2004
From: reverse.ku.oc.issolok at nothypgnal.delrest.co.uk (Paul Sweeney)
Date: Wed, 28 Apr 2004 08:46:43 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: sending an object - twisted or what?
References: <c6llh1$1k8$1@sparta.btinternet.com>
	<20040427152051.50234c65.mutah@NOSPAM-libertysurf.fr>
Message-ID: <c6nr1j$g8$1@hercules.btinternet.com>

"Mutah" <mutah at NOSPAM-libertysurf.fr> wrote in message
news:20040427152051.50234c65.mutah at NOSPAM-libertysurf.fr...
> On Tue, 27 Apr 2004 13:00:17 +0000 (UTC)
> Paul Sweeney wrote:
>
> > Is twisted the only way to go, or is there something
> > simpler for my app?  The code for twisted is fairly simple (I found
> > http://twistedmatrix.com/documents/current/howto/pb-copyable)
> > but the library is a bit heavy and I don't want to go through the
> > hassle of dependencies/compiling etc if there's a simpler way.
> >
>
>
> Using only modules shipped with python, a simpler way (in term of
> dependencies only) would be to pickle the objects and
> then send the result throught a socket.
>
> On the other side, you may need to write more code to do that.
>

I was considering that but there is all the associated problems of knowing
when a complete object has been received, guarding against spoof data being
received from the internet etc.

It is a case of balancing "reinventing the wheel" vs getting a pre-built
wheel but with a huge road-train undesirably attached.

Paul




From peter at engcorp.com  Fri Apr  2 11:45:20 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Fri, 02 Apr 2004 11:45:20 -0500
Subject: emergent/swarm/evolutionary systems etc
In-Reply-To: <c4k3tj$6dd$1@titan.btinternet.com>
References: <c4aeq8$92a$1@hercules.btinternet.com><c4btjr$8il$1@titan.btinternet.com><c4ccs2$l9j$1@news.service.uci.edu><c4hjp4$dg6$1@sparta.btinternet.com><c4ibr0$ngm$1@news.service.uci.edu>
	<c4jehj$6eh$1@titan.btinternet.com><c4jjad$ce4$1@titan.btinternet.com>
	<mailman.268.1080907791.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<c4k3tj$6dd$1@titan.btinternet.com>
Message-ID: <QL6dnb-VQ9k8BfDdRVn-gQ@powergate.ca>

Peter MacKenzie wrote:

> Peter Hansen + Mickel Gr?nroos, (unsure of a more suitable intro protocol
> for this environment + situation)
> 
> Oh the joy!  It makes life worth living when things click into place and
> make sense.  My style of learning seems ill suited to the material available
> on the subject, so although I had indeed read all that I could find on
> making files, it was presented in a manner that I couldn't quite comprehend.
> To elaborate, I process linguistic information in a holistic, intuitive
> manner; a quality that requires for me to develop a 'feel' for the language
> in question, rather than a literal understanding of the rules.
> 
> Because of this, I need full-yet-simple working examples to deconstruct and
> process.  Most of the examples I've come across have been fragmented and
> incomplete, which leaves me grasping at loose ends and the countless
> possibilities therein.  It's as though somebody had handed me at birth a
> dictionary and a set of grammatical rules, with the expectation that I would
> be able to piece it all together and learn to communicate.

Sounds like you should check out www.diveintopython.org, which as I
recall has quite full examples.  If you haven't read it already do so.

The only other thing I can suggest is spend less time defending your
way of learning things :-) and more time just *doing* it.  Write code,
and when it doesn't work at first, experiment.  Python should be
learned with the interactive interpreter prompt right in front of
you, typing and watching and learning...

Anyway, keep at it.  Python is certainly one of the easiest if not
the easiest modern language to learn (IMHO) so you should find yourself
making relatively good progress, whatever your difficulties.

-Peter


From eppstein at ics.uci.edu  Fri Apr  9 11:52:47 2004
From: eppstein at ics.uci.edu (David Eppstein)
Date: Fri, 09 Apr 2004 08:52:47 -0700
Subject: print u"\u0432": why is this so hard? UnciodeEncodeError
References: <cpa4qrvb529.fsf@cabernet.nelson.monkey.org>
	<c52lu9$j8c$03$1@news.t-online.com>
	<eppstein-55126D.00202008042004@news.service.uci.edu>
	<c546v4$bi5$02$1@news.t-online.com>
	<mailman.474.1081470992.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<eppstein-E7E585.00091009042004@news.service.uci.edu>
	<c55tkv$3s4$05$2@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <eppstein-66505E.08524709042004@news.service.uci.edu>

In article <c55tkv$3s4$05$2 at news.t-online.com>,
 "Martin v. Lowis" <martin at v.loewis.de> wrote:

> David Eppstein wrote:
> > Well, no.
> > 
> > Python 2.3 (#1, Sep 13 2003, 00:49:11) 
> > [GCC 3.3 20030304 (Apple Computer, Inc. build 1495)] on darwin
> > Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
> > 
> >>>>import sys;sys.stdin.encoding
> > 
> > 'US-ASCII'
> 
> You did not follow Hye-Shik's instructions closely enough. You
> failed to set the LANG environment variable before starting Python.

A system that requires me to manually set the LANG environment variable 
is no better than a system that requires me to manually define an 
encoding once in Python.  It doesn't seem to answer your question about 
automatic determination of the Terminal's encoding.

-- 
David Eppstein                      http://www.ics.uci.edu/~eppstein/
Univ. of California, Irvine, School of Information & Computer Science


From johnbunderwood at yahoo.ca  Tue Apr  6 09:45:14 2004
From: johnbunderwood at yahoo.ca (John Underwood)
Date: Tue, 06 Apr 2004 09:45:14 -0400
Subject: Using python23 to develop an extension for an application that
	has python22 embedded
References: <aoa370h2r58lgb00jn9o1nfpg2titdgoss@4ax.com>
	<1073eeubflmchd5@corp.supernews.com>
	<o2g3709fpgp50sn561h0vf5e2dd6hcuo7g@4ax.com>
	<1073vcag51uufe9@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <ilb5701am2r6eej1riudbaolj1aphie6nb@4ax.com>

On Mon, 5 Apr 2004 17:44:55 -0700, "Michael Geary"
<Mike at DeleteThis.Geary.com> wrote:

>John Underwood wrote:
>> I have both 2.2 and 2.3 installed on my computer. My problem has to do
>> with Visual Studio .NET which will build 2.3 but will not build 2.2.
>> (MS removed largeint.h which is required by pythoncore in 2.2 when
>> they went from Visual C++ 6 to VS.NET. I tried supplying largeint.h to
>> VS.NET but that did not work.)
>>
>> Since I cannot build 2.2, I do not have python22.dll or python22_d.dll
>> (the debug version). (They are not shipped with python you have to
>> produce them yourself.)
>
>The executable Python installer for Windows does install pythonXX.dll. You
>should find python22.dll and python23.dll in your Windows system32
>directory.
>
>Do you need python22_d.dll at all? I would think you'd need it only if you
>were actually debugging the Python interpreter itself. I've never needed a
>debug version of the Python DLL to debug ordinary Python code.
>
>> The commercial application to which I need to add an extension has
>> python22.dll in its runtime folder. I have no control over this
>> application and have to use whichever version they have chosen.
>
>Paint Shop Pro?

Curious Labs - Poser 5

>
>> Since I do have python23.dll and python23_d.dll (from a successful
>> build of 2.3), can I use these to develop an extension for the
>> aforementioned commercial application if I stay away from any new
>> features in 2.3 (but not in 2.2)?
>
>Are you talking about source code compatibility only? Sure, as long as you
>use only language features available in both the old and new versions. You
>can't use .pyc bytecode files from one version with a different version.
>

Yes, although I'll have to check into the .pyc bytecode issue - which
I don't think is a problem.

>Anyway, I must be missing something here, because I would think you could
>simply develop with your installed Python 2.2 and run the code under your
>target application. You shouldn't have to be worrying about any of the stuff
>you're dealing with.
>

May be it comes down to the approach taken to debug an extension. (I'm
new to Python - as you've probably guessed - and debugging mixed
language situations.)

To use the dubugging features of Visual Studio to debug my extension
code, I thought I needed to use python22_d.dll (the debug version fo
python22.dll). Is this correct? If so, I have not been able to produce
it with Visual Studio .NET because of the problems VS has with 2.2.

On the other hand, would it be better to debug the extension without
the Python interface (in other words, debug the internals of the
extension that are not dependent on Python) before attempting to test
the Python interface (which could be performed with python22.dll)?

-John


From michele.simionato at poste.it  Wed Apr  7 06:05:33 2004
From: michele.simionato at poste.it (Michele Simionato)
Date: 7 Apr 2004 03:05:33 -0700
Subject: OFF-TOPIC:: Why Lisp is not my favorite programming language
References: <165b3efa.0403030443.4d591f04@posting.google.com>
	<40460dd5$0$5916$7a628cd7@news.club-internet.fr>
	<d771b842.0403040735.3b5200ae@posting.google.com>
	<e87fc4b0.0403221114.254b7ee5@posting.google.com>
	<d771b842.0404061258.655b8e56@posting.google.com>
	<6in670lrldbjkuujle68a526293j57a7mn@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <95aa1afa.0404070205.94b32e4@posting.google.com>

Stephen Horne <steve at ninereeds.fsnet.co.uk> wrote in message news:<6in670lrldbjkuujle68a526293j57a7mn at 4ax.com>...

> LISP is normally interpreted - maybe always, <snip>

I think you will be crucified for that affirmation. Anyway, here is an
interesting thread talking about Lisp optimizations:

http://groups.google.it/groups?hl=it&lr=&ie=UTF-8&threadm=95aa1afa.0402262158.5b33de79%40posting.google.com&rnum=1&prev=/groups%3Fhl%3Dit%26lr%3D%26ie%3DISO-8859-1%26q%3Dsimionato%2Bfeature%2Brequest%26btnG%3DCerca%2Bcon%2BGoogle%26meta%3Dgroup%253Dcomp.lang.python.*

The gist is "Lisp can be faster than C/C++".


   Michele Simionato


From http  Wed Apr 14 14:02:44 2004
From: http (Paul Rubin)
Date: 14 Apr 2004 11:02:44 -0700
Subject: Difficulty Finding Python Developers
References: <65cbc3dd.0404140641.3501fde8@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <7xd66aigjf.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

pm_mon at yahoo.com (Paul Morrow) writes:
> We've worked hard to convince our company to migrate our core
> applications to Python, and now we're looking for a Python developer
> in Atlanta to handle a short-term (approx. 3 month) project.  But our
> initial searches have been fairly unsuccessful.  We haven't actually
> posted a job on Monster, but we have been talking with various
> headhunters in our area and they don't have many resumes that show
> Python experience.  An so now, of course, mgt is wondering whether
> selecting Python was a mistake.
> 
> As anyone had a similar experience?  Suggestions?
 

I think nobody minds when people post Python jobs to this newsgroup.
In fact I bet you're getting queries already.  What's the project?


From alloydflanagan at comcast.net  Wed Apr 21 14:03:43 2004
From: alloydflanagan at comcast.net (A. Lloyd Flanagan)
Date: 21 Apr 2004 11:03:43 -0700
Subject: CamelCase versus wide_names (Prothon)
References: <UHxfc.9323$dZ1.3740@fed1read04> <407F3F20.DB8FA765@alcyone.com>
	<QHIfc.9902$dZ1.6634@fed1read04>
Message-ID: <e838aa6e.0404211003.4307fe64@posting.google.com>

"Mark Hahn" <mark at prothon.org> wrote in message news:<QHIfc.9902$dZ1.6634 at fed1read04>...
> "Erik Max Francis" <max at alcyone.com> wrote ...
> 
> > I'm surprised you're creating your own language and don't have enough
> > internal stylistic sense to make this choice yourself.
> 
FWIW, Mark, I'm with you on this one.  Standardizing variable names
isn't exactly what I'd call a "deep" design decision.  What's wrong
with asking experienced programmers what works best?

Speaking of which -- camelCase, definitely.  Unless you want to allow
spaces in your variable names... :)


From ptmcg at austin.rr._bogus_.com  Wed Apr 14 07:19:08 2004
From: ptmcg at austin.rr._bogus_.com (Paul McGuire)
Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2004 11:19:08 GMT
Subject: spherical coordinates
References: <20040414111334.34b5d225@pistache.sara.nl>
	<c5j28h$j3m$1@swifty.westend.com>
	<7x1xmqua94.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<dX8fc.587$lp3.280@fe2.texas.rr.com>
Message-ID: <M69fc.633$lp3.326@fe2.texas.rr.com>


"Paul McGuire" <ptmcg at austin.rr._bogus_.com> wrote in message
news:dX8fc.587$lp3.280 at fe2.texas.rr.com...
> "Paul Rubin" <http://phr.cx at NOSPAM.invalid> wrote in message
> news:7x1xmqua94.fsf at ruckus.brouhaha.com...
> > Peter Maas <peter.maas at mplusr.de> writes:
> > > r = sqrt(x**2 + y**2)
> > > phi = atan(y/x)
> >
> > Better use phi=atan2(y,x) in case x=0.  Similarly for the other atan
> calls.
>
> These are formulas for cylindrical coordinates.  The OP was asking for
> spherical coordinates rho, theta, and phi, where:
>
> rho = distance from origin (similar to r in cylindrical coords)
> theta = angle from the positive x axis of the xyz vector projection onto
the
> x-y plane (just like theta in cylindrical coords)
> phi = angle of the xyz vector from the x-y plane
>
> To convert from spherical to Cartesian:
>
>     x = rho * sin(phi) * cos(theta)
>     y = rho * sin(phi) * sin(theta)
>     z = rho * cos(phi)
>
> From Cartesian to spherical:
>
>     rho = sqrt(x**2 + y**2 + z**2)
>     theta = atan2(y, x)
>     if rho != 0.0:
>         phi = acos( z / rho )
>     else:
>         phi = pi / 2 * sgn(z)
>
> I can imagine that all these conversions could be a performance killer if
> done entirely in Python, and could stand to be done as a C extension.
This
> is probably why the OP was asking if such a package already exists.
>
> -- Paul
>
> (Hmm, the math module doesn't have a sgn() function.  Is this difficult to
> add?)
>
>
D'oh - that's what I get for pulling formulas off the web and not reviewing
the material!!!

    phi = angle of the xyz vector from the positive z-axis

    phi = acos( z / rho)

Sorry!

http://www.math.montana.edu/frankw/ccp/multiworld/multipleIVP/spherical/body.htm




From daniel at syrinx.net  Mon Apr  5 19:51:43 2004
From: daniel at syrinx.net (Daniel Ellison)
Date: Mon, 5 Apr 2004 19:51:43 -0400
Subject: [maybe OT] Making posters
References: <95aa1afa.0404030143.58c32975@posting.google.com>
	<tyfhdvyzway.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
	<95aa1afa.0404050650.2d39b1a5@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <QZSdnSozTIdJbezd4p2dnA@look.ca>

"Michele Simionato" <michele.simionato at poste.it> wrote:
> What I do not understand is if the "scale" operator automatically splits
> the graph in many pages if it becomes too large.

Probably not. As I said, it's been a few years, but I would suspect the
"scale" operator simply scales the user coordinate system by the proportions
given so that everything drawn after that command will be rendered
accordingly. It's most likely the host application or utility that splits
the image into multiple pages.

Dan




From rjt-usenet at thegrindstone.me.uk  Wed Apr 21 09:35:58 2004
From: rjt-usenet at thegrindstone.me.uk (Richard Taylor)
Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2004 13:35:58 +0000
Subject: Passing argument to setsockopt(socket.SOL_SOCKET,
	IN.SO_BINDTODEVICE, intr)
References: <408640b7$0$31671$fa0fcedb@lovejoy.zen.co.uk>
	<40866792$0$31708$fa0fcedb@lovejoy.zen.co.uk>
	<mailman.832.1082550811.20120.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <408678be$0$31680$fa0fcedb@lovejoy.zen.co.uk>

Jeff Epler wrote:

> On Wed, Apr 21, 2004 at 12:22:41PM +0000, Richard Taylor wrote:
>> The answer is:
>> 
>> s.setsockopt(socket.SOL_SOCKET,IN.SO_BINDTODEVICE,struct.pack("%ds" %
>> (len("eth0")+1,), "eth0"))
>> Richard Taylor wrote:
> 
> Maybe this is simpler:
>     #dev = "eth0"
>     s.setsockopt(..., dev + '\0')
> I think it has the same effect as your code, but it is a little clearer
> to me that the setsockopt call needs a zero-terminated C string as its
> argument.
> 
> Jeff

You are right. I did not realise that you could append a null in that way.

Thanks.

Richard



From hungjunglu at yahoo.com  Thu Apr  8 18:50:12 2004
From: hungjunglu at yahoo.com (Hung Jung Lu)
Date: 8 Apr 2004 15:50:12 -0700
Subject: Are line continuations needed?
References: <mailman.418.1081348606.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<1078dq6i93pc12d@news.supernews.com>
	<1078skqn9hgdd19@corp.supernews.com>
	<1079015hfg56i28@news.supernews.com>
	<Xns94C5601A46236duncanrcpcouk@127.0.0.1>
	<4596f01b3d76279a6c75379203735ded@news.teranews.com>
Message-ID: <8ef9bea6.0404081450.3b82e96f@posting.google.com>

Dang Griffith <noemail at noemail4u.com> wrote in message news:<4596f01b3d76279a6c75379203735ded at news.teranews.com>...
> On 8 Apr 2004 08:32:02 GMT, Duncan Booth <me at privacy.net> wrote:
> >
> >mystring = """\
> >+---------------+
> >|    '"         |
> >+---------------+
> >"""
> >
> mystring = (
> """+---------------+\n"""
> """|    '"         |\n"""
> """+---------------+"""
> )

mystring = """
+---------------+
|    '"         |
+---------------+
""" [1:]

Hung Jung


From fumanchu at amor.org  Thu Apr 29 18:59:52 2004
From: fumanchu at amor.org (Robert Brewer)
Date: Thu, 29 Apr 2004 15:59:52 -0700
Subject: static keyword
Message-ID: <DE1CF2B4FEC4A342BF62B6B2B334601E562081@opus.amorhq.net>

I wrote:
> > >>> def foo():
> > ... 	i = 10
> > ... 	print "First pass"
> > ... 	while True:
> > ... 		i += 1
> > ... 		yield i
> > ... 		
> > >>> g = foo()
> > >>> g.next()
> > First pass
> > 11
> > >>> g.next()
> > 12

and Nick Jacobson replied:
> Yes, that is excellent.  Thank you very much. :)
> 
> The good news: you can reset all your "static" data whenever you want,
> by calling foo().  Can't do that in C.
> 
> The bad news: I just hope I don't forget and call foo() instead of
> g.next().
> I would rather the command foo() by default call the next iteration,
> and, say, foo().reset() would recall the function from scratch.

It all comes down to naming, for me. When you make a generator, name it
as a generator, not as one of the produced items. That is, for the
above, you would never name it next_item(), because that gives the wrong
idea:

>>> g = next_item()
>>> next_item()
<generator object at ...>

...as you can see, the last line throws you because you didn't get what
you might expect from a functional perspective. However, if I name it
count_from_eleven, which would then read as:

>>> g = count_from_eleven()
>>> count_from_eleven()
<generator object at ...>

...that problem goes away, because the last call doesn't "read" right.
You'd never write it, because the name signals to you that you're doing
The Wrong Thing.


Robert Brewer
MIS
Amor Ministries
fumanchu at amor.org



From FBatista at uniFON.com.ar  Wed Apr 28 13:26:36 2004
From: FBatista at uniFON.com.ar (Batista, Facundo)
Date: Wed, 28 Apr 2004 14:26:36 -0300
Subject: Formatting Currency According to Locale
Message-ID: <A128D751272CD411BC9200508BC2194D0338391F@escpl.tcp.com.ar>

[Daniele Varrazzo]

#- Is it up to me to write a function to keep all these details 
#- into account?

These issues will be handled inside the Money module. Hey! I first need to
finish the Decimal module, ;)

If you want to help, can start with PEP 327 for the Decimal module. I posted
a pre-PEP for the Money module to the list, you can read those posts also
(in both standard and developers list, you can search them in google).

.	Facundo





. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
ADVERTENCIA  

La informaci?n contenida en este mensaje y cualquier archivo anexo al mismo,
son para uso exclusivo del destinatario y pueden contener informaci?n
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Si Ud. No es uno de los destinatarios consignados o la persona responsable
de hacer llegar este mensaje a los destinatarios consignados, no est?
autorizado a divulgar, copiar, distribuir o retener informaci?n (o parte de
ella) contenida en este mensaje. Por favor notif?quenos respondiendo al
remitente, borre el mensaje original y borre las copias (impresas o grabadas
en cualquier medio magn?tico) que pueda haber realizado del mismo. 

Todas las opiniones contenidas en este mail son propias del autor del
mensaje y no necesariamente coinciden con las de Telef?nica Comunicaciones
Personales S.A. o alguna empresa asociada. 

Los mensajes electr?nicos pueden ser alterados, motivo por el cual
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From david at rebirthing.co.nz  Thu Apr 15 05:27:44 2004
From: david at rebirthing.co.nz (David McNab)
Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2004 21:27:44 +1200
Subject: ANN: YahooQuote module
Message-ID: <407E5590.7060505@rebirthing.co.nz>

Announcing YahooQuote, probably the easiest and most convenient API for 
downloading (and caching) stockmarket prices off the internet.

http://www.freenet.org.nz/python/yahooquote

I know it's not the first python module for pulling yahoo stockmarket 
quotes.

It's not even original code - the fetching/caching/parsing engine is 
ripped verbatim (under the GPL) from Rimon Barr's 'pyq' utility. I've 
just wrapped it into some cushy high-level classes.

But I do believe it's the most natural, pythonic and easily learned API 
for accessing ticker prices, accumulating an historical database, and 
using in other python programs (eg your favourite neural net 
algorithm-du-jour for technical analysis).

Enjoy

Cheers
David



From theller at python.net  Tue Apr 27 02:48:38 2004
From: theller at python.net (Thomas Heller)
Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2004 08:48:38 +0200
Subject: Problem with PY2EXE and VPython
References: <sXgjc.43843$_L6.2802892@attbi_s53>
Message-ID: <zn8xvruh.fsf@python.net>

"bap" <no_spam at terastat.com> writes:

> When I try to run a program on a clean machine using the VPython extensions
> after compiling with PY2EXE I get the following error message: "The
> procedure entry point IsWow64Process could not be located in the dynamic
> link library KERNEL32.dll" . The compiled version runs fine on the original
> machine (win NT OS) but gives this error message on a machine without
> VPython installed (Win 2K OS). Is this anything that can be fixed with
> appropriate parameters in PY2EXE or does it require that VPython be tweaked?

This error looks like that py2exe is picking up some 'system dlls' into
the dist directory, which are (sometimes) system specific.

If you post the list of files that are in the dist directory, it might
be possible to name them.

Earlier versions of py2exe had a builtin list of dlls which should be
ignored, this list will again be in the next version.

Thomas




From newsgroups at jhrothjr.com  Sun Apr  4 21:44:01 2004
From: newsgroups at jhrothjr.com (John Roth)
Date: Sun, 4 Apr 2004 21:44:01 -0400
Subject: Advocacy opportunity
References: <10719mdp83juif4@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <1071eiaddi7mo95@news.supernews.com>


"Cameron Laird" <claird at lairds.com> wrote in message
news:10719mdp83juif4 at corp.supernews.com...
> I've been advised that
> <URL: http://www.smallscript.com/Language%20Comparison%20Chart.asp >
> is open to correction in its Python column.  Who wants to tackle
> this?  Python certainly supports interaction, we have plenty to boast
> about in regard to foreign functions, we offer GUIs in abundance, ...
>
> They seem rather liberal.  If Python supports private methods and
> variables (and JavaScript does native threads!?!) (but somebody seems
> to have it in for C++), we might as well argue it gives root classes,
> too.

I wouldn't. To me, a root class is a common class that is **the**
root of the object hierarchy, in some useful sense such as
contributing numerous common methods. Granted, new style
classes are rooted in object, but object doesn't seem to
contribute much except for __getattribute__.

> I think if I had friends who were salesmen, they'd advise me, "You
> just mark, 'Yes', everywhere, and deal with it if someone argues."

Jason Voegele's paper also needs some corrections. (Pixeldate's
seems to go to a porn site.)

I see your point: there are a huge number of question marks in
the Python column. Some of them I don't know how to fill out,
and a few of them I don't know what he's talking about, frankly.

John Roth
> -- 
>
> Cameron Laird <claird at phaseit.net>
> Business:  http://www.Phaseit.net




From get at bent.com  Thu Apr  8 05:14:32 2004
From: get at bent.com (nobody)
Date: Thu, 8 Apr 2004 19:14:32 +1000
Subject: Non-math-geek needs help with CRCs (binascii.crc32)
References: <4073c865$0$27642$61ce578d@news.syd.swiftdsl.com.au>
	<slrnc7820b.o9j.ncw@irishsea.home.craig-wood.com>
Message-ID: <40751603$0$27643$61ce578d@news.syd.swiftdsl.com.au>

>   http://www.ross.net/crc/

That doesn't seem to mention anything about poly $EDB88320, which is the
code I'm trying to a) be compatible with, b) define for future developers so
they don't have to go through this whole mess.  It appears whatever Python
uses is compatible, but stating the poly by itself doesn't mean anything.

Somehow, depending on how the numbers are massaged, the old code based on
$EDB88320 is compatible with what the above site documents as $04C11DB7.

This is all very confusing..





From elainejackson7355 at home.com  Thu Apr  8 02:14:38 2004
From: elainejackson7355 at home.com (Elaine Jackson)
Date: Thu, 08 Apr 2004 06:14:38 GMT
Subject: list comprehensions
References: <yjZcc.42823$Pk3.9547@pd7tw1no>
	<mailman.434.1081374131.20120.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <i56dc.46224$Pk3.1562@pd7tw1no>

OK, it's pretty embarassing that I gave up when it wasn't in the contents and
never even thought of the index. And so far everybody's been too polite to point
out that I left the base case out of my recursion. But I stand by my complaint
about unintuitiveness, because I've discovered that you get an error from

x = [(i,j) for i in range(7-j) for j in range(3)]

while

y = [[(i,j) for i in range(7-j)] for j in range(3)]

works fine. In other words, my intuition was that x would be
reduce(list.__add__,y). And in fact I'm still a little confused, because I would
describe the syntax of y as going, as you say, from left to right (ie: a
left-branching tree). I suppose I'm going from the inside out, and you're
talking about going from the outside inward. Or something like that. Anyway,
thanks for your help. Now that I know what to read, I'll read it.

Peace


"Terry Reedy" <tjreedy at udel.edu> wrote in message
news:mailman.434.1081374131.20120.python-list at python.org...
|
| "Elaine Jackson" <elainejackson7355 at home.com> wrote in message
| news:yjZcc.42823$Pk3.9547 at pd7tw1no...
| >
| > List comprehensions don't work the way you intuitively expect them to
| work.
|
| One of my pet posting peeves is when people ascribe their own
| characteristics to others, as when they write 'you' when they really mean,
| or should have meant, 'I'.  But nevermind.
|
| > I realize many people have no intuitions about how list comprehensions
| 'should'
| > work,
|
| List comprehensions are sufficiently 'artificial' that I would advise
| anyone to avoid the temptation to intuit how they work without consulting
| the manual, tutorials, or other written explanations.
|
| The Python Reference Manual Index, section L, entry List..comprehensions
| takes one to subsection 5.2.4 List displays.  The last two sentences
| therein read
|
|  "When a list comprehension is supplied, it consists of a single expression
| followed by at least one for clause and zero or more for or if clauses. In
| this case, the elements of the new list are those that would be produced by
| considering each of the for or if clauses a block, nesting from left to
| right, and evaluating the expression to produce a list element each time
| the innermost block is reached."
|
| OK, takes a couple of readings and maybe some working examples.
|
| > partitions = lambda n: [[n]]+[[k]+x for x in partitions(n-k) for k in
| > range(1,n)]
| >
| > As defined above, the function raises an exception when you call it ('k'
| > referenced before assignment).
|
| Of course, you have the two for clauses reversed, as the error message
| might suggest to an experienced Pythoneer.  As the manual specifies, for/if
| clauses nest *left to right*.  To match the double loop below, you want
| instead
|
| [[k]+x for k in range(1,n) for x in partitions(n-k)]
|
| > def partitions(n):
| >     reVal=[[n]]
| >     for k in range(1,n):
| >         for x in partitions(n-k):
| >             reVal.append([k]+x)
| >     return reVal
|
| Terry J. Reedy
|
|
|
|




From richardd at hmgcc.gov.uk  Mon Apr  5 05:22:11 2004
From: richardd at hmgcc.gov.uk (richardd)
Date: Mon, 5 Apr 2004 10:22:11 +0100
Subject: Reading binary using a struct - behavour not as expected? 
Message-ID: <40712544$1@mail.hmgcc.gov.uk>

Hi,
I am writing code to deal with PCAP files. I have a PCAP dump and I am
looking at the timestamps in the PCAP packet headers to see if they are in
the correct order in the file. To do this I have a class called
PCAPPacketHdr as follows

import struct

class PCAPPacketHdr:
    FormatString = "LLLL"
    TSSec = None
    TSUSec = None
    InclLen = None
    OrigLen = None

    def Pack(self):
        return struct.pack( self.FormatString, self.TSSec, self.TSUSec,
self.InclLen, self.OrigLen )

    def Unpack(self, buffer):
        self.TSSec, self.TSUSec, self.InclLen, self.OrigLen =
struct.unpack( self.FormatString, buffer )

    def Size(self):
        return struct.calcsize (self.FormatString)


I then have code which opens up the file (skipping the PCAP file magic
number and PCAP file header), and reads in each packet header as follows:

while not eof:
     #read in PCAPPacketHdr
     buf = curFile.read(packetHdr.Size())
     if len(buf) == packetHdr.Size():
         packetHdr.Unpack(buf)
         if lastPacketHdr != None:
             if lastPacketHdr.TSSec > packetHdr.TSSec:
                 outputFile.write("ERROR: Packet TSSec earlier than last
one: \n")
                 outputFile.write("       Last Packet
"+repr(lastPacketHdr.TSSec)+"."+repr(lastPacketHdr.TSUSec)+"\n")
             elif lastPacketHdr.TSSec == packetHdr.TSSec:
                 if lastPacketHdr.TSUSec > packetHdr.TSUSec:
                     outputFile.write("ERROR: Packet TSUSec earlier than
last one\n")
                     outputFile.write("       Last Packet
"+repr(lastPacketHdr.TSSec)+"."+repr(lastPacketHdr.TSUSec)+"\n")
         outputFile.write("       Packet
"+repr(packetHdr.TSSec)+"."+repr(packetHdr.TSUSec)+"\n")
         lastPacketHdr = copy.deepcopy(packetHdr)
         #skip packet payload
         packetPayload = curFile.read(packetHdr.InclLen)
     else:
         eof = True


This code appears to work fine for extracting the timestamps from the file,
the repr( ) calls on the timestamps allow me to write them to the output
file correctly, it's just the comparison operators don't appear to be
working as I would expect. It appears than when the TSUSec timestamp is the
same as the previous one in the data I input, it reports "ERROR: Packet
TSUSec earlier than last one".

This makes me think that the comparison operators aren't acting on the data
as longs as I expected.

Can anyone shed some light on what I'm doing wrong, I'm still very new to
Python.

Thanks in advance,

Rich




From martin at v.loewis.de  Mon Apr 12 14:27:45 2004
From: martin at v.loewis.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?=22Martin_v=2E_L=F6wis=22?=)
Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2004 20:27:45 +0200
Subject: print u"\u0432": why is this so hard? UnciodeEncodeError
In-Reply-To: <16505.58626.39783.581506@montanaro.dyndns.org>
References: <cpa4qrvb529.fsf@cabernet.nelson.monkey.org>
	<c52lu9$j8c$03$1@news.t-online.com>
	<eppstein-55126D.00202008042004@news.service.uci.edu>
	<c546v4$bi5$02$1@news.t-online.com>
	<m38yh3hhxv.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk>
	<c5cgq3$tps$00$1@news.t-online.com>
	<16505.58626.39783.581506@montanaro.dyndns.org>
Message-ID: <c5en2q$mjl$01$1@news.t-online.com>

Skip Montanaro wrote:
>     Martin> I wonder how much would break if Python would assume the
>     Martin> terminal encoding is UTF-8 on Darwin. Do people use different
>     Martin> terminal encodings?
> 
> I generally use xterm instead of Terminal.app.  I think it's encoding is
> latin-1.

Not on OS X. Terminal.App is a software package completely different
from xterm. For one thing, xterm is for X11, whereas Terminal.App is
for Window Server (or whatever the name of the Apple GUI is).

It may be that Apple has changed the defaults at some time, but
atleast on my installation, the default encoding of Terminal.App for
all users is UTF-8.

Regards,
Martin



From peter at engcorp.com  Thu Apr 22 06:19:49 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2004 06:19:49 -0400
Subject: AOP use cases
In-Reply-To: <tyfbrlkv3ae.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
References: <84fc4588.0404140106.3fa0c55@posting.google.com>
	<slrnc7q1ss.1aa.alf@largo.fayauffre.org>
	<cb035744.0404141130.170f51c4@posting.google.com>
	<slrnc7sgat.vp.alf@largo.fayauffre.org>
	<cb035744.0404160442.2f0b1661@posting.google.com>
	<0pydnSB4WYuieuLdRVn-hQ@powergate.ca>
	<tyfbrlkv3ae.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
Message-ID: <XYmdnVLB9rjbARrdRVn-vg@powergate.ca>

Jacek Generowicz wrote:
(a lengthy reply, and thank you for taking the time!)
> Peter Hansen <peter at engcorp.com> writes:
>>I would be very interested to hear some real-world and real useful
>>use cases for AOP as well.
> 
> AOP is about separation of concerns. Let me repeat that: AOP is about
>           SEPARATION OF CONCERNS.
[snip]
> As for real world examples ... if you think of AOP as separation of
> concerns which you want to be weaved together, then I am sure that you
> will be able to come up with plenty of excellent real world examples
> yourself.

Unfortunately, that's just my point.  So far I haven't been able
to do that, it seems.  The example posted previously with the
"synchronization wrapper" approach is, however, quite understandable
and comes from real-world experience that many of us share.  Is
that AOP?  Is it not AOP?  If it's an application of AOP principles,
then is AOP anything other than a good practice which some of us
have been doing for years, prettied up with a nice name.  In other
words, Just Another Pattern?

Jacek, I appreciate the attempt to clarify, but so far it seems to
me that *everyone* who talks about AOP just talks in abstract terms
and isn't willing (or able?) to pin it down with *real* real-world
examples, just "imagine this" or "wouldn't it be nice if".  You
seem to be someone who understands AOP well: do you use it?  Could
you please provide an example from your own uses which demonstrates
the effectiveness of AOP versus "not AOP" in the same way that the
synchronization example posted earlier is clearly better when done
as a wrapper than with the code duplicated everywhere (i.e. with
the "concerns" not separated)?

-Peter


From BrenBarn at aol.com  Thu Apr 15 11:50:01 2004
From: BrenBarn at aol.com (OKB (not okblacke))
Date: 15 Apr 2004 15:50:01 GMT
Subject: CamelCase versus wide_names (Prothon)
References: <UHxfc.9323$dZ1.3740@fed1read04>
Message-ID: <Xns94CC59DAC34CCOKB@130.133.1.4>

Mark Hahn wrote:

> Of course in the Python world you alread have wide_names as your
> standard, but could you for the moment pretend you were picking
> your standard from scratch (as we are doing in the Prothon world)
> and give your vote for which you'd prefer?

    	camelCase, hands down.  Underscores are much too difficult to type, 
and in my opinion should be avoided except when you WANT a hard-to-type 
identifier (as with private variables, etc.).

-- 
--OKB (not okblacke)
Brendan Barnwell
"Do not follow where the path may lead.  Go, instead, where there is
no path, and leave a trail."
	--author unknown


From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Fri Apr  2 15:13:50 2004
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 2 Apr 2004 15:13:50 -0500
Subject: Simple text markup (-> HTML)
References: <tyf3c7m1zic.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
	<406D3EAA.16466030@alcyone.com>
	<tyfy8pezjc8.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
Message-ID: <c4khhu$789$1@panix3.panix.com>

In article <tyfy8pezjc8.fsf at pcepsft001.cern.ch>,
Jacek Generowicz  <jacek.generowicz at cern.ch> wrote:
>Erik Max Francis <max at alcyone.com> writes:
>> Jacek Generowicz wrote:
>>> 
>>> I'm looking for something to help developers wirte documentation for
>>> bits of software they are writing.
>> 
>> reStructredText.  Bigtime.
>
>Way cool !
>
>I am rather shocked that this (or its ancestors) has not registered on
>my radar before now.

You should be shocked.  ;-)  It's been discussed lots.  The really neat
thing about reST is that it scales upward fairly well -- I'm writing a
book with it, and so is at least one other person.
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

"usenet imitates usenet"  --Darkhawk


From james at ractive.ch  Mon Apr 12 09:46:42 2004
From: james at ractive.ch (Jean-Pierre Bergamin)
Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2004 15:46:42 +0200
Subject: How to kill a SocketServer?
Message-ID: <c5e6k3$jf4$1@newshispeed.ch>

Me again... :-)

Is there any possibility to kill a SocketServer that was started like this:


class ServerThread(threading.Thread):

    class MyHandler(SocketServer.StreamRequestHandler):
        def handle(self):
            line = self.rfile.readline()
            self.wfile.write(line.upper())

    def run(self):
        s = SocketServer.TCPServer(('', 1234), self.MyHandler)
        s.server_forever()

    def stop_server()
        # Any chance to stop the server here???
        what_to_do() # ????????

server_thread = ServerThread()
server_thread.start()
# do other things
server_thread.stop_server()

The problem is, that I found no way to interrupt the blocking call to
self.rfile.readline(). Is there a way to do that?

Using an asynchronous server is not an option.


Thanks in advance

James




From jacek.generowicz at cern.ch  Fri Apr  2 10:26:35 2004
From: jacek.generowicz at cern.ch (Jacek Generowicz)
Date: 02 Apr 2004 17:26:35 +0200
Subject: Python conference slogan
References: <mailman.189.1080759511.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<kmjsj1-89u.ln1@snout.lairds.org> <c4glmq$j1i$1@swifty.westend.com>
	<30260531.0404010833.1b834032@posting.google.com>
	<406C4DDF.5000907@zope.com>
	<mailman.259.1080890435.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<c4jj1i$f6g$1@swifty.westend.com>
Message-ID: <tyflllez9hw.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>

Peter Maas <peter.maas at mplusr.de> writes:

> These slogans are meaningless to (Monty) Python outsiders. As I
> understand this thread there is a need for a slogan that is short,
> not too hard to understand and unforgettable (probably a definition
> of the word slogan). Python insiders don't need a slogan at all.

A previous slogan was:

   Python: Programming the way Guido indented it.

Pretty meaningless to Python outsiders, I'd say.


From no_replies at fake_email_address.invalid  Sun Apr 18 17:42:40 2004
From: no_replies at fake_email_address.invalid (Robert Oschler)
Date: Sun, 18 Apr 2004 17:42:40 -0400
Subject: Python/Win based report generator for MySQL databases
Message-ID: <%zCgc.59345$oj6.9111@bignews6.bellsouth.net>

Has anybody seen a nice Python 2.2+ compatible based module/package, running
on a Win2k box, that makes creating reports from a MySQL database easy?

I am both a Python programmer and MySQL programmer so it doesn't have to be
too simple, just useful.

Thanks

Robert




From grace-request at plasma-gate.weizmann.ac.il  Sun Apr 11 21:29:04 2004
From: grace-request at plasma-gate.weizmann.ac.il (grace-request at plasma-gate.weizmann.ac.il)
Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2004 04:29:04 +0300
Subject: **SPAM-W** *Your information
In-Reply-To: <200404120128.i3C1SwcZ011747@plasma-gate.weizmann.ac.il>
References: <200404120128.i3C1SwcZ011747@plasma-gate.weizmann.ac.il>
Message-ID: <200404120129.i3C1T4bs011776@plasma-gate.weizmann.ac.il>


Sorry, but submissions to this list is restricted to its
members. 
For bug reports and suggestions related to Grace please 
follow links found at
      http://plasma-gate.weizmann.ac.il/Grace/
You will also find there info on how to subscribe to the
mailing list.  
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

------=_NextPart_000_0016----=_NextPart_000_0016
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="Windows-1252"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

*** eSafe-W detected hostile content in this email and removed it. ***
\presentation_document4.pif   Infected with Win32.Netsky.s (Non-Removable), Blocked 

The presentation document.
Thank you

+++ X-Attachment-Type: document
+++ X-Attachment-Status: no virus found
+++ Powered by the new Norton OnlineAntiVirus
+++ Free trial: www.norton.com



------=_NextPart_000_0016----=_NextPart_000_0016--




From frank at chagford.com  Mon Apr  5 10:26:23 2004
From: frank at chagford.com (Frank Millman)
Date: 5 Apr 2004 07:26:23 -0700
Subject: Simple db using list comprehensions
Message-ID: <246a4e07.0404050626.153ff525@posting.google.com>

Hi all

>From time to time there is a request for a simple way of storing and
accessing data without using a full SQL database.

I had this requirement recently, and I was pleasantly surprised by how
much I could achieve with a simple Python list and list
comprehensions.

Assume the need to store data consisting of first name, surname and
phone number. To ensure uniqueness, I use an additional column to
store a unique id, which can just be a 'next number'.

To create the table -
	table = []

To initialise it with a couple of rows -
	table.append([1,'Frank','Millman',12345])
	table.append([2,'John','Smith',54321])

To get the last id used -
	last_id = max([row[0] for row in table])

Alternatively, if you know the rows are in id sequence -
	last_id = table[-1][0]

To add a new row -
	firstname = 'Fred'
	surname = 'Jones'
	phone = 23456

First, ensure first name and surname are unique -
	rows = [row for row in table if row[1] == firstname and row[2] ==
surname]
	if len(rows):
		errmsg = 'Already exists'

If ok, add the row -
	last_id += 1
	table.append([last_id,firstname,surname,phone])

To select all rows according to some criteria (eg surnames starting
with 'M') -
	rows = [row for row in table if row[2][0] == 'M']

If you need a copy of the rows -
	rows = [row[:] for row in table if row[2][0] == 'M']

To sort the rows in surname sequence -
	rows = [[row[2],row] for row in rows]  # prepend surname to row for
sorting
	rows.sort()
	rows = [row[1] for row in rows]  # remove prepended surname

To select and sort at the same time -
	rows = [[row[2],row] for row in table if row[2][0] == 'M']
	rows.sort()
	rows = [row[1] for row in rows]

To amend a phone number if you know the first name and surname -
	rows = [row for row in table if row[1] == 'Fred'  and row[2] ==
'Jones']
      if not rows:
		errmsg = 'not found'
	elif len(rows) > 1:
		errmsg = 'more than one row found'
	else:
		rows[0][3] = phone

To delete a row if you know the first name and surname -
	rows = [row for row in table if row[1] == 'Fred'  and row[2] ==
'Jones']
      if not rows:
		errmsg = 'not found'
	elif len(rows) > 1:
		errmsg = 'more than one row found'
	else:
		pos = [row[0] for row in table].index(rows[0][0])
		del table[pos]

To delete all rows with a phone number of 0 -
	ids = [row[0] for row in table]
	rows = [row[0] for row in table if row[3] == 0]
	for row in rows:
		pos = ids.index(row)
		del table[pos]
		del ids[pos]

I have not tested all of these, but you get the idea.

I did not have to save the data, but if you need to, I am sure you can
pickle it.

Hope this is of interest.

Frank Millman


From sholden at holdenweb.com  Wed Apr 21 19:58:10 2004
From: sholden at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2004 19:58:10 -0400
Subject: NVidia Gelato has Python binding
References: <mailman.881.1082583742.20120.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <KUDhc.38723$bl.30461@okepread03>

"Terry Reedy" <tjreedy at udel.edu> wrote in message
news:mailman.881.1082583742.20120.python-list at python.org...
> >From http://film.nvidia.com/page/gelato.html :
>
> Gelato is NVIDIA's new professional image rendering software, running on
> top of its new Quadro FX graphics hardware.  In addition to its C++ API,
>
> "A Python binding also ships with Gelato, allowing users to script input,
> automatically generating geometries and shading instead of explicitly
> specifying them in advance. "
>
> This is the only such binding mentioned.  They apparently feel that Python
> is well enough known that no explanatory phrase is needed.
>

It probably *is* well-known in the target market, since Industrial Light and
Magic are a very well-known Python user.

regards
--
Steve Holden                                  http://www.holdenweb.com/
Python Web Programming                 http://pydish.holdenweb.com/pwp/





From amk at amk.ca  Thu Apr 15 14:49:41 2004
From: amk at amk.ca (A.M. Kuchling)
Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2004 13:49:41 -0500
Subject: CamelCase versus wide_names (Prothon)
References: <UHxfc.9323$dZ1.3740@fed1read04>
Message-ID: <C5WdnebiQabYROPdRVn-iQ@speakeasy.net>

On Thu, 15 Apr 2004 08:17:08 -0700, 
	Mark Hahn <mark at prothon.org> wrote:
> Of course in the Python world you alread have wide_names as your standard,
> but could you for the moment pretend you were picking your standard from
> scratch (as we are doing in the Prothon world) and give your vote for which
> you'd prefer?

Wide_names: for a while I wrote code using mixedCase, but subsequently
switched back; the resulting method/function names are easier to read
and to talk about.

--amk



From hungjunglu at yahoo.com  Tue Apr 20 17:41:56 2004
From: hungjunglu at yahoo.com (Hung Jung Lu)
Date: 20 Apr 2004 14:41:56 -0700
Subject: Editing/Writing Word-Files from Python
References: <c63fgi$7esh7$1@ID-47444.news.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <8ef9bea6.0404201341.405beb5@posting.google.com>

Daniel Cloutier <danielcloutier at yahoo.com> wrote in message news:<c63fgi$7esh7$1 at ID-47444.news.uni-berlin.de>...
> 
> is it possible to edit or write Word-files out of a Python-Program?

Yes. 

(a) You need the win32all modules from Mark Hammond.

(b) To try out the object model of MS Word, press ALT+F11 to bring up
the VBA environment, then F2 to view the object browser. It's a
complicated subject.

-------------------------------------------
import pythoncom
from win32com.client import Dispatch

app = Dispatch('Word.Application')
app.Visible = 1
doc = app.Documents.Add()
s = doc.Sentences(1)
s.Text = 'This is a test.'
doc.SaveAs('C:\\mydoc2.doc')
app.Quit()

app = None
pythoncom.CoUninitialize()
--------------------------------------------

You may want to add better exception handling, otherwise, you may
often have danggling processes when exceptions happen. (You'll then
have to manually kill them from the task manager.)

regards,

Hung Jung


From dmq at gain.com  Tue Apr 27 19:35:36 2004
From: dmq at gain.com (David MacQuigg)
Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2004 16:35:36 -0700
Subject: Ideas for Python 3
Message-ID: <s1pt80h988ucqd8vbrd3occhpagtpssigg@4ax.com>

I am starting a new thread so we can avoid some of the non-productive
argument following my earlier post "What is good about Prothon".  At
Mr. Hahn's request, I will avoid using the name "Prothon" in the
subject of any post to this newsgroup.  Please ignore the old thread.

I've also updated my webpage http://ece.arizona.edu/~edatools/Python
Anyone with some good ideas for "Python 3" is welcome to contribute.
I hope GvR won't sue me for calling it "Python 3" :>)

Here is the original proposal:

< snip criticism of Prothon syntax >

 ... There are a number of
aspects to this simplification, but for me the unification of methods
and functions is the biggest benefit.

All methods look like functions (which students already understand).
Prototypes (classes) look like modules.  This will make teaching OOP
much simpler, especially for the students and professional engineers
(non-CIS) that I am most concerned about.  I teach electronic design
tools, not programming.  Current plans are to include some basic
Python, no OOP. If I could add OOP with another 4 hours, I would do
it.

I've written a proposal for a prototype syntax that I believe captures
the essense of what is good in Prothon, while not departing too
radically from Python. see PrototypeSyntax.htm at
http://ece.arizona.edu/~edatools/Python/  I would like to get
feedback from Python experts on the potential problems with this
syntax. The major question is automatic translation of existing Python
programs to the new syntax. I'm one of those users who would not give
up the existing libraries in Python, no matter how good some
alternative language may be.

I would also like to get feedback from users on what they like or
dislike about this proposal. I will summarize this feedback in the
"Pros and Cons" section of the proposal.

Below are some excerpts from the syntax proposal.  Please see the link
above for better formatting.

-- Dave

         Proposed Prototype Syntax
         =========================
< snip >

Example of Simplified Classes ( Prototypes )
============================================

Animal     -->    Mammal     -->    Feline     -->    Cat
-------           -------           -------           -------
numAnimals        numMammals        numFelines        numCats
home                                genus
__init__()        __init__()        __init__()        __init__()
                      .sound                              .sound
                                                          .name
show()            show()            show()            show()
                  talk()                              talk()


proto Animal(object):  # Inherit from the primitive object.
    numAnimals = 0
    home = "Earth"
... 
<see the "OOP Chapter" at http://ece.arizona.edu/~edatools/Python/
for the complete example.>
...
proto Cat(Feline):
    numCats = 0
    __init__ :( n = "unknown", s = "Meow" ):
        Feline.__init__()
        Cat.numCats += 1
        .name  = n         # Set instance variables.
        .sound = s
    show :():              # Define a "static method".
        Feline.show()
        print "    Cats:", Cat.numCats
    talk :():
        print "My name is ...", .name
        print "I am a %s from %s" % (.genus, .home)
        Mammal.talk()      # Call an unbound function.
        print __self__     ### Diagnostic check.
      
cat1 = Cat()            # Create instance.
with cat1:              # Modify instance variables.
    home  = "Tucson"
    genus = "feline"
    name  = "Garfield"

>>> cat1.talk()
My name is ... Garfield
I am a feline from Tucson
Mammal sound:  Meow
<__main__.Cat object at 0x00A894B0>
>>>

Changes from Current Python
===========================
-- Keyword class is changed to proto.
-- All methods have the same form, identical to a simple function.
-- Function header lines are re-arranged.  def --> :  Parentheses are
optional.
-- self is replaced with a leading dot, and eliminated from the arg
list.
-- Current instance is available if ever needed via __self__
-- Instances can have their attributes modified in a with block.

Benefits of Proposed Syntax
===========================
-- Unification of all function forms ( bound, unbound, static, class,
lambda ).  All will have the same form as a normal function
definition.  This will make it easier to teach OOP.  Students will
already understand functions and modules.  OOP is a small step up.  A
prototype will look just like a module ( except for the instance
variables ).  See Parallels between Prototypes and Modules below.

-- Using an explicit __self__ variable avoids the magic first
argument, and makes it easier to explain instance variables.  See the
sections below comparing a brief explanation of instance variables in
Python vs the simplified form.  A full presentation of OOP, like pages
295-390 in Learning Python, 2nd ed. will likely be 1/2 the number of
pages.  Not only is the basic presentation simpler, but we can
eliminate a lot of discussion of lambda functions, static methods,
etc.

-- All attributes of a prototype ( both data and functions ) will be
in a neat column, making it easier to find a particular attribute when
visually scanning a program.  Understanding the structure of a program
will be almost as quick as seeing a UML diagram.

-- Lambda keyword will be gone.  An anonymous function using normal
function syntax can be extremely compact. ( :x,y:x+y )

-- Method definitions will be less cluttered and less typing with
__self__ as a hidden variable.

-- Changing numerous attributes of an instance will be more
convenient. ( need use case )

-- Migration of Python programs to Python 3 will be automatic and
reliable.  ???

Pros and Cons of the Proposed Syntax
====================================
Classlessness

Con: The proposed syntax is not purely classless.  This is important
because ... ???

Unification of Methods and Functions

Pro1:  Less to learn.

Con1:  Experts don't care.  Beginners don't need advanced method
syntax.

Pro2:  Replace lambdas with standard function syntax.

Con2:  ???

Explicit __self__

Pro1:  Allows the unification of methods and functions.

Con1:  ???

Pro2:  Explanation of instance variables is simpler.

Con2:  Using __self__ instead of a special first argument is less
explicit.

Pro3:  Less typing and less clutter in method definitions.

Con3:  Can use "s" or "_" instead of "self" to minimize typing and
clutter.

"Assignment" Syntax for Function Definitions

Pro1:  See all the variables at a glance in one column.

Con1:  ???

Pro2:  Emphasize the similarity between data and functions as
attributes of an object.

Con2:  ???

Symbol instead of def Keyword

Pro:  Allows lambda functions to be included in the unification.

Con:  Symbols are never as clear as keywords.

With Block

Pro:  Saves typing the object name on each line.

Con:  Making it too easy to modify prototypes after they have been
created will lead to more undisciplined programming.

Issues relevant to teaching OOP
===============================
Parallels between Prototypes and Modules
----------------------------------------
Ninety percent of what students need to know about prototypes is
already understood from their study of functions and modules.  Even
some tricky issues are best explained by comparing to a parallel
situation with modules.
< snip >

Explanation of Instance Variables in Python
-------------------------------------------
"""  Some of the variables inside the functions in a class have a
self. prefix.  This is to distinguish local variables in the function
from "instance variables".  These instance variables will be found
when the function is called, by searching the instance which called
the function.  The way this works is that calling the function from an
instance causes that instance to be passed as the first argument to
the function call.  So if you call cat1.talk(), that is equivalent to
Cat.talk(cat1) If you call cat1.set_vars( "Garfield", "Meow"), that is
equivalent to Cat.set_vars(cat1, "Garfield", "Meow")

The "current instance" argument is auto-magically inserted as the
first argument, ahead of any other arguments that you may provide in
calling a method that is "bound" to an instance.  Note: The
distinction between instances and classes is important here.  If you
call a function from a class, that function is not bound to any
instance, and you have to supply the instance explicitly in the first
argument ( Cat.talk(cat1) )

The variable name self is just a convention.  As long as you put the
same name in the first argument as in the body of the definition, it
can be self or s or even _   The single underscore is handy if you
want to maximally suppress clutter.  """

Explanation of Simplified Instance Variables
--------------------------------------------
""" Some of the variables inside the functions in a prototype have a
leading dot.  This is to distinguish local variables in the function
from "instance variables".  When a function is called from an instance
( cat1.talk() ) a special global variable __self__ is automatically
assigned to that instance ( __self__ = cat1 )  Then when the function
needs an instance variable ( .sound ) it uses __self__ just as if you
had typed it in front of the dot ( __self__.sound )  The leading dot
is just an abbreviation to avoid typing __self__ everywhere.  """

========== END ==============



From peter at engcorp.com  Fri Apr 23 08:35:33 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2004 08:35:33 -0400
Subject: Why we will use obj$func() often
In-Reply-To: <mailman.939.1082697809.20120.python-list@python.org>
References: <d2Uhc.22272$dZ1.1600@fed1read04>	<84Uhc.22278$dZ1.5087@fed1read04>	<mailman.927.1082665370.20120.python-list@python.org>	<8AWhc.23114$dZ1.11070@fed1read04>
	<mailman.939.1082697809.20120.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <EradnVFq3IILkBTdRVn-vA@powergate.ca>

Mike C. Fletcher wrote:

> instance, I would almost certainly consider the fishHeight$Somewhere() 

Mike, you haven't been keeping up with the other thread.  I think the
decision is now:

   fish_height$some_where()

;-)  ;-)

-Peter


From madsurfer2000 at hotmail.com  Sun Apr 11 06:40:40 2004
From: madsurfer2000 at hotmail.com (-)
Date: 11 Apr 2004 03:40:40 -0700
Subject: a little problem
References: <mailman.504.1081584653.20120.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <fef0a228.0404110240.50c3c9b3@posting.google.com>

tru <trushe at tut.by> wrote in message news:<mailman.504.1081584653.20120.python-list at python.org>...
> Would you advise 
> me what should I start with, because I got known about Python only from 
> his words two weeks ago. Please,  do not advice me to read a lot of 
> books before bothering you , he gave me too little time to learn it and 
> to do it . One more thing-- I'm  a student. )
>   best wishes , Tru.

If you're a student, you probably have experience with other languages.

Try one of these:
http://www.python.org/topics/learn/prog.html


From __peter__ at web.de  Wed Apr  7 12:46:32 2004
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Wed, 07 Apr 2004 18:46:32 +0200
Subject: Dynamic creation of an object instance of a class by name
References: <10f99b0f.0404070656.5960e2c8@posting.google.com>
	<c517fs$jk3$01$1@news.t-online.com>
	<c518c9$2nrrm3$1@ID-111250.news.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <c51b98$onu$01$1@news.t-online.com>

Diez B. Roggisch wrote:

>> Don't listen to the voices whispering "Use eval()" or "globals() are the
>> way to go", make it clean and explicit with a dictionary containing all
>> classes you want to expose:
> 
> Out of curiosity - why not to use eval? having a dict like yours makes
> things look like your average java factory pattern - some explicit
> structure, to which access has to be guaranteed and that requires a
> registration.
> 
> Of course, if you know that you will always only select the class from a
> fixed num of classes, your approach ensures that no non-compliant classes
> can be selected - but hey, we're dynamic here ;) You never can be totally
> sure what you get....

It's probably a matter of taste, but most of the time the use of eval()
suggests more freedom than there actually is. Let's suppose there are 3
classes A, B, and C that will be used by your eval(), that limitation may
then be enforced in various parts of your code or in the documentation,
while I tend to see exposed = dict(...) as self-documenting. You can go to
the implementation of one class in the list to look up the interface.

To take an (almost) real-world example from the library, what would you
suppose the following to do?

klass = eval(klass, vars(logging))

What would you do to make the above accept your special-purpose handler
class? I think something like

availableHandlers = {...}

def registerHandler(name, klass, replace=False):
    if not replace and name in availableHandlers:
        raise NameClash    
   availableHandlers[name] = klass

formatterClass = availableHandlers[name]

is much clearer.

As a side note (not that I think this is important here), eval() is not the
fastest of functions:

$ timeit.py -s"class A: pass" -s"all=dict(A=A)" "all['A']"
10000000 loops, best of 3: 0.147 usec per loop
$ timeit.py -s"class A: pass" "eval('A')"
10000 loops, best of 3: 19.7 usec per loop


Peter



From martin at v.loewis.de  Fri Apr  9 06:24:34 2004
From: martin at v.loewis.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?=22Martin_v=2E_L=F6wis=22?=)
Date: Fri, 09 Apr 2004 12:24:34 +0200
Subject: print u"\u0432": why is this so hard? UnciodeEncodeError
In-Reply-To: <eppstein-E7E585.00091009042004@news.service.uci.edu>
References: <cpa4qrvb529.fsf@cabernet.nelson.monkey.org>
	<c52lu9$j8c$03$1@news.t-online.com>
	<eppstein-55126D.00202008042004@news.service.uci.edu>
	<c546v4$bi5$02$1@news.t-online.com>
	<mailman.474.1081470992.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<eppstein-E7E585.00091009042004@news.service.uci.edu>
Message-ID: <c55tkv$3s4$05$2@news.t-online.com>

David Eppstein wrote:
> Well, no.
> 
> Python 2.3 (#1, Sep 13 2003, 00:49:11) 
> [GCC 3.3 20030304 (Apple Computer, Inc. build 1495)] on darwin
> Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
> 
>>>>import sys;sys.stdin.encoding
> 
> 'US-ASCII'

You did not follow Hye-Shik's instructions closely enough. You
failed to set the LANG environment variable before starting Python.

Regards,
Martin



From deetsNOSPAM at web.de  Tue Apr 27 05:08:09 2004
From: deetsNOSPAM at web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2004 11:08:09 +0200
Subject: Regular Expressions
References: <c6j0ht$ed0$1@atlantis.news.tpi.pl>
	<c6j3sc$br0hn$1@ID-111250.news.uni-berlin.de>
	<mailman.23.1082995078.25742.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <c6l8ej$d7f1t$1@ID-111250.news.uni-berlin.de>

Benjamin Arai wrote:

> I would just use the re library because regular expressions will allow
> you to get right down to the data on the first try anyways without
> further parsing.  If you use the htmlparser library first it may cause
> some unneeded processing time.

That depends on how well the html is written. You often end up writing
complicated regexes to extract data from certain special cases, and
sometimes even with two passes. So in general, its better to use the right
tool for the job - if speed _is_ a concern you can still try to optimize.

-- 
Regards,

Diez B. Roggisch


From stephen.no at spam.theboulets.net.please  Fri Apr 30 22:26:40 2004
From: stephen.no at spam.theboulets.net.please (Stephen Boulet)
Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2004 21:26:40 -0500
Subject: silent raw_input for passwords
Message-ID: <B36dncCgsNfVkQ7d3cwC-g@speakeasy.net>

I need a password for a script and I would like to not have it stored in a
file or shown in a terminal.

"passphrase = raw_input()" still lets you see the input on the screen. Is
there a way to have it be hidden? It's my gpg passphrase, so I don't want
it anywhere except in my head.

If anyone's interested, I'm wrapping the command for the duplicity program
(incremental GPG encrypted backups to an FTP server;
http://www.nongnu.org/duplicity/):

===========================
#!/bin/env python

from ftplib import FTP
from os import popen

dirfile = '/usr/local/backups.txt'
dirs = file(dirfile).read().split('\n')

host = 'ftphost'
uname = 'ftpuname'
password = 'ftppass'

ftp = FTP(ftphost)
ftp.login(ftpuname,ftppass)
l=ftp.nlst()

for i,dir in enumerate(dirs):
    if str(i+1) not in l:
        print 'Directory "%s" is not on the FTP server.' % dir
        print "Creating directory %d on server..." % (i+1)
        ftp.mkd(str(i+1))
ftp.quit()

print "Starting duplicity synchronization ..."
print "Enter your passphrase:"
passphrase = raw_input()
passphrase = "PASSPHRASE=" + passphrase

for i in range(1,len(dirs)+1):
    command = passphrase + ' duplicity ftp://'
    command += ftpuname + '@' + ftphost + '/ "'
    command += dirs[i-1] + '" ' + str(i)
    print "Starting backup of directory %s" % dirs[i-1]
    popen(command).read()

print "Done!"


-- 
Stephen      
              From here to there
             and there to here,
           funny things are everywhere.  -- Dr Seuss



From i.dont.like.spam at spamfree.final.nospam.co.unspammed.il  Thu Apr 29 14:12:55 2004
From: i.dont.like.spam at spamfree.final.nospam.co.unspammed.il (Ori Berger)
Date: Thu, 29 Apr 2004 21:12:55 +0300
Subject: Automatic caching and dependency evaluation among variables?
Message-ID: <409145d1@news.bezeqint.net>

I *think* I saw a post some time ago enabling "spreadsheet" like 
computations, that allows something along the lines of:

 >>> vars.a = 10
 >>> vars.b = dependency("vars.a * 20")
 >>> print vars.b
200
 >>> vars.a = 50
 >>> print vars.b
1000

(Not sure what the actual syntax definitions were)
And vars.b was only re-computed if vars.a was changed - 
otherwise a cached value was returned.

I can write this myself, but the solution I'm thinking of is 
inelegant, and I remember the solution was extremely short and 
elegant; I can't find anything in the google archives, though.

Anyone perhaps have a link or other helpful info?

(My idea of how to do it: make vars a special dict that logs 
every __get__, and that can have callbacks when something is 
__set__. the dependency() code would evaluate the expression, 
see what __get__s were logged, and attach the same expression to 
be reevaluated when any of those were __set__.

It becomes complicated, though, if I wish to track changes to 
vars.subvar1.subvar2.subvar3 as well, though).


From shalabh at cafepy.com  Tue Apr 13 09:23:16 2004
From: shalabh at cafepy.com (Shalabh Chaturvedi)
Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2004 06:23:16 -0700
Subject: Once-only evaluation of default parameter values function   
 definitions
In-Reply-To: <407BB8F5.E694AA49@doe.carleton.ca>
References: <407B79D7.424F65A1@doe.carleton.ca>	<107n2g6q9an672b@corp.supernews.com>
	<407BB8F5.E694AA49@doe.carleton.ca>
Message-ID: <c5gpeq$39a$1@sea.gmane.org>

Fred Ma wrote:
> Michael Geary wrote:
> 
> 
>>>  Example#1
>>>  ---------
>>>  def f(a, L=[]):
>>>      L.append(a)
>>>      return L
>>>
>>>  Example#2
>>>  ---------
>>>  def f(a, L=None):
>>>      if L is None:
>>>          L = []
>>>      L.append(a)
>>>      return L
>>
>>Here's a simpler example:
>>
>>
>>>>>a = []
>>>>>b = a
>>>>>a
>>
>>[]
>>
>>>>>b
>>
>>[]
>>
>>>>>a.append(1)
>>>>>a
>>
>>[1]
>>
>>>>>b
>>
>>[1]
>>
>>See what happened? The statement 'b = a' didn't make a copy of a and
>>store it in b. Instead, it made the name b refer to the same object
>>as a. So, when I said b.append(1), it meant exactly the same thing
>>as if I'd said a.append(1).
> 
> 
> Thanks, Mike.  That's alot clearer.  The default value looks like it's
> a persistent object.  It is similar to a static local variable in C++.
> In Example#1, that object actually got changed.  In contrast, in
> Example#2, the code prevents L from remaining bound to None beyond the
> first line, so the None object never gets changed.  In fact, my 2nd
> explanation was close: that there is an unnamed persistent object that
> holds the default value to be bound to L for invocations that don't
> explicity supply an argument for L. The place I went wrong was to say
> that L never gets bound to None again, after it has been bound to a
> caller supplied object on a previous invocation of the function.
>
> Fred

That is correct, L will be bound to None whevever there is no argument 
supplied. Also note that the None object is immutable, and cannot be 
changed, so this mechanism is safe.

The default value is as 'persistent' as the function itself. Functions 
are objects and spring into existance only after Python encounters and 
executes the 'def' statement. Python also evaluates the default values 
at this point and keeps these objects around, along with the function 
definition.

If at a later point you do 'del f', you will delete the function and the 
default values (since there is no more use for them, the function cannot 
be called). Assuming, of course, that f was the only reference to the 
function.

Since the 'name-binding' concept in Python is not exactly the same as 
references in C++, I suggest you also read 'How to think like a Pythonista':

http://starship.python.net/crew/mwh/hacks/objectthink.html

for an excellent coverage of one of Python's basic concepts.

--
Shalabh




From OlafMeding at noSpam.compuserve.com  Tue Apr 13 08:28:35 2004
From: OlafMeding at noSpam.compuserve.com (Olaf Meding)
Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2004 07:28:35 -0500
Subject: Logging Stacktrace To File
References: <407bcbca$1_2@newspeer2.tds.net>
	<eovsk1-e02.ln1@wintermute.g2ctech>
Message-ID: <407bdce5$1_1@newspeer2.tds.net>

> ... have to catch the exception and then log it to the file.

Right.  I do also know how to open a file and write to it.

But how do I get at the stack trace?  I would like to have it look the same
in the file as what gets printed to the screen.

Thanks again.

Olaf





From use_reply-to at empty.invalid  Thu Apr  1 10:31:03 2004
From: use_reply-to at empty.invalid (jsaul)
Date: Thu, 1 Apr 2004 17:31:03 +0200
Subject: splitting one dictionary into two
Message-ID: <20040401153103.GC4577@jsaul.de>

Hello all,

I have to split a dict into two dicts. Depending on their values,
the items shall remain in the original dict or be moved to another
one and at the same time be removed from the original dict.

OK, this is how I do it right now:

    dict1 = { "a":1, "b":3, "c":5, "d":4, "e":2 }
    dict2 = {}
    klist = []

    for key in dict1:
        if dict1[key] > 3: # some criterion
            dict2[key] = dict1[key]
            klist.append(key)

    for key in klist:
        del dict1[key]

    print dict1
    print dict2

That means that I store the keys of the items to be removed from
the original dict in a list (klist) and subsequently remove the
items using these keys.

Is there an "even more pythonic" way?

Cheers, jsaul


From lbates at swamisoft.com  Tue Apr 27 16:04:03 2004
From: lbates at swamisoft.com (Larry Bates)
Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2004 15:04:03 -0500
Subject: debugging code
References: <3064b51d.0404271139.6ec7057@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <g6ednRjZKawsIRPd4p2dnA@comcast.com>

Since Python isn't "compiled", there is no such thing as
conditional compilation.  I always have _debug and _trace
variables and use simple if _debug: and if _trace: statements
to test them (actually I allow debug to have levels that
show additional detail as I need it).  I almost always read
these from the argument list on the processor call so I can
turn them on easily.  I also read them from .INI file for
those programs that have one.  Seems to work very well and
there is almost no overhead to them when turned off.

FYI,
Larry Bates
Syscon, Inc.

<beliavsky at aol.com> wrote in message
news:3064b51d.0404271139.6ec7057 at posting.google.com...
> If I have some debugging code in a Python program (mostly print
> statements) and I want to turn it "off", two obvious methods are to
> (1) comment out the code
> (2) set a logical 'debug' variable at the beginning and use it to
> conditionally run the debugging code.
>
> Is there a better way? Some other languages have conditional
> compilation. (I don't know if that is better or worse). What is the
> "best" way to maintain "production" and "debugging" versions of a
> Python program at the same time, preferably in the same file?




From jack at performancedrivers.com  Fri Apr 16 22:26:46 2004
From: jack at performancedrivers.com (Jack Diederich)
Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2004 22:26:46 -0400
Subject: CamelCase versus wide_names (Prothon)
In-Reply-To: <69KdndtPUZT-5h3dRVn-uw@powergate.ca>
References: <UHxfc.9323$dZ1.3740@fed1read04>
	<407ec022$0$54153$1b2cd167@news.wanadoo.nl>
	<roy-C4FD90.13444715042004@reader2.panix.com>
	<b9Afc.9345$dZ1.7703@fed1read04>
	<mailman.714.1082153054.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<69KdndtPUZT-5h3dRVn-uw@powergate.ca>
Message-ID: <20040417022646.GD794@performancedrivers.com>

On Fri, Apr 16, 2004 at 08:33:39PM -0400, Peter Hansen wrote:
> Jack Diederich wrote:
> >I'm a wide_case_fanboy, having done mixedCase and wide_names over the last
> >fifteen years.  It all comes down to personal preference, of course.  IMO
> >mixedCase people tend to be younger, and younger people tend to be more
> >zealous on newsgroups.
> 
> Define "younger".
.. than "me"
specifically people who know close to one language.

Generally I've been happier with each language I've ever programmed in,
and have been choosier at each junction.  By the time I got out of uni it 
was C++, branching out into Java and Perl and settling on Python for a few
years now.  With many more (Objective C, Lisp, Haskell) used along the way
for hobby projects.  You start with what you know and then get pickier
once you know more about what exists.

Strength of the belief that you have found the one true way is inversely
proportional to the number of things you have tried.  Java and VB folks
are more likely to have an N of one and a belief approaching unity.  They are
also more likely to be mixedCase people. That is my opinion.

Variable naming isn't high on my list of religious wars[*], I mentioned in 
my other post I do write both mixed and wide words depending on the codebase.

But when I get to pick, I pick wide words.

-jackdied

[*] for vi lovers, I've been know to order light beer 'by accident' when
buying a round.  Not really, but that is how tepid I am about my emacs
preference.



From no at spam.invalid  Fri Apr 16 19:56:00 2004
From: no at spam.invalid (Russell E. Owen)
Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2004 16:56:00 -0700
Subject: Tkinter: cut'n'paste from DISABLED window?
References: <c4vm3g$b2d$1@news.Stanford.EDU>
	<1076oovf3jd9b28@corp.supernews.com>
	<mailman.679.1082112559.20120.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <c5prqh$poq$1@nntp6.u.washington.edu>

In article <mailman.679.1082112559.20120.python-list at python.org>,
 "Fredrik Lundh" <fredrik at pythonware.com> wrote:

>...
>however, in recent versions, many Tk entry widgets supports both
>state="disabled"
>and state="readonly", but I don't think this is yet available for the Text
>widget.
>
>as for the original poster, the best way to solve this is probably to add
>custom
>mouse bindings for this widget.  here's a start...

Glad to hear about the new state="readonly". Looking forward to that 
making it into the Text widget. Meanwhile, here's the function I use. No 
gurantees, but it seems to work for me. Any bug reports would be most 
welcome.

-- Russell

def makeReadOnly(tkWdg):
    """Makes a Tk widget (typically an Entry or Text) read-only,
    in the sense that the user cannot modify the text (but it can
    still be set programmatically). The user can still select and copy 
text
    and key bindings for <<Copy>> and <<Select-All>> still work properly.
    
    Inputs:
    - tkWdg: a Tk widget
    """
    def killEvent(evt):
        return "break"
    
    def doCopy(evt):
        tkWdg.event_generate("<<Copy>>")

    def doSelectAll(evt):
        tkWdg.event_generate("<<Select-All>>")

    # kill all events that can change the text,
    # including all typing (even shortcuts for
    # copy and select all)
    tkWdg.bind("<<Cut>>", killEvent)
    tkWdg.bind("<<Paste>>", killEvent)
    tkWdg.bind("<<Paste-Selection>>", killEvent)
    tkWdg.bind("<<Clear>>", killEvent)
    tkWdg.bind("<Key>", killEvent)
    # restore copy and select all
    for evt in tkWdg.event_info("<<Copy>>"):
        tkWdg.bind(evt, doCopy)
    for evt in tkWdg.event_info("<<Select-All>>"):
        tkWdg.bind(evt, doSelectAll)


From mwh at python.net  Mon Apr 12 16:33:14 2004
From: mwh at python.net (Michael Hudson)
Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2004 20:33:14 GMT
Subject: print u"\u0432": why is this so hard? UnciodeEncodeError
References: <cpa4qrvb529.fsf@cabernet.nelson.monkey.org>
	<c52lu9$j8c$03$1@news.t-online.com>
	<eppstein-55126D.00202008042004@news.service.uci.edu>
	<c546v4$bi5$02$1@news.t-online.com>
	<m38yh3hhxv.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk>
	<c5cgq3$tps$00$1@news.t-online.com>
	<16505.58626.39783.581506@montanaro.dyndns.org>
	<c5en2q$mjl$01$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <m3lll1ey2d.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk>

"Martin v. L?wis" <martin at v.loewis.de> writes:

> Skip Montanaro wrote:
> >     Martin> I wonder how much would break if Python would assume the
> >     Martin> terminal encoding is UTF-8 on Darwin. Do people use different
> >     Martin> terminal encodings?
> > I generally use xterm instead of Terminal.app.  I think it's
> > encoding is
> > latin-1.
> 
> Not on OS X. Terminal.App is a software package completely different
> from xterm. For one thing, xterm is for X11, whereas Terminal.App is
> for Window Server (or whatever the name of the Apple GUI is).

I think Skip knows this :-)

Cheers,
mwh

-- 
  You can lead an idiot to knowledge but you cannot make him 
  think.  You can, however, rectally insert the information, 
  printed on stone tablets, using a sharpened poker.        -- Nicolai
               -- http://home.xnet.com/~raven/Sysadmin/ASR.Quotes.html


From noemail at noemail4u.com  Thu Apr 22 13:30:23 2004
From: noemail at noemail4u.com (Daniel 'Dang' Griffith)
Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2004 17:30:23 GMT
Subject: Simple question about mutable container iterator
References: <mailman.913.1082641708.20120.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <fa5e81206eea9e07e1e09e55fca6d01e@news.teranews.com>

On Thu, 22 Apr 2004 09:48:14 -0400, "Neal D. Becker"
<ndbecker2 at verizon.net> wrote:

>x = [1,2,3]
>
>for i in x:
>  i = 2
>
>This doesn't change x.  2 questions:
>
>1) Why not?  Why doesn't assign to an iterator of a mutable type change the
>underlying object?
>
>2) What is the preferred way to do this?

I'm not sure what you're trying to do, and others have given ideas.
If you're trying to make x a list of 2's having the same length
as x had when you started, you could do this, and avoid the iteration:

x = [1,2,3]
x = len(x) * [2]

Or, if you're trying to set all elements to the average:

x = [1,2,3]
x = len(x) * [1.0 * sum(x) / len(x)]

Or, if you're trying to set all elements to the middle element:
x = [1,2,3]
x = len(x) * [x[len(x) / 2)]]

    --dang


From stewart at midwinter.ca  Mon Apr 12 16:41:51 2004
From: stewart at midwinter.ca (Stewart Midwinter)
Date: 12 Apr 2004 13:41:51 -0700
Subject: Best IDE?
References: <c5bg1k$25vq$1@news.wplus.net> <c5c138$i91$1@news.service.uci.edu>
Message-ID: <9396ba6f.0404121241.2953ad84@posting.google.com>

Josiah Carlson <jcarlson at uci.edu> wrote in message news:<c5c138$i91$1 at news.service.uci.edu>...

> I use PyPE, find it to be a satisfactory replacement for Idle, and is 
> quite fast.  I wrote it, which is why I place it at the bottom.

Josiah, I've tried PyPE and quite like it. It has some useful features
beyond what SciTE, which I also use, has.

One thing that I'd like to see in PyPE is a way to remember the window
layout. Each time I open a file, I find myself dragging window margins
around until I can see my ToDo list, the class list, etc.  Or am I
missing something?

cheers
Stewart in Calgary


From humean at fea.st  Thu Apr 29 19:55:30 2004
From: humean at fea.st (Steve)
Date: Thu, 29 Apr 2004 19:55:30 -0400
Subject: Feedback on Sets, and Partitions
Message-ID: <1083282930.25734.185379975@webmail.messagingengine.com>

This post has two parts. First is my feedback on sets. (Hello? Last
summer called, they want their discussion thread back...) Second is some
questions about my implementation of a partition function for sets.

Part 1.
---
>From: Raymond Hettinger (vze4rx4y at verizon.net)
>Subject: Py2.3: Feedback on Sets
>Newsgroups: comp.lang.python
>Date: 2003-08-11 23:02:18 PST
>
>I've gotten lots of feedback on the itertools module
>but have not heard a peep about the new sets module.
>
>* Are you overjoyed/outraged by the choice of | and &
>   as set operators (instead of + and *)?

I like '|' and '&', because union and intersection are more like or and
and than they are like addition and multiplication.

>* Is the support for sets of sets necessary for your work
>   and, if so, then is the implementation sufficiently
>   powerful?

Sets would be far less interesting and useful if we could not have sets
of sets. The implementation is sufficient, but not entirely intuitive. Of
course, there is no distinction between immutable and mutable sets in
normal set theory. I could live with only immutable sets, but it is nice
being able to use:
 myset.add(x)

instead of:
 newmyset = myset | Set([x])

I would like (I think) syntactic support where curly-braces could replace
the class constructor.

Another unintutive feature is that there can be multiple sets with the
same members. I.e., you can have sets A and B such that "A == B" is true
and "A is B" is false. I would like more information on the reasons for
this choice and whether there would be anything to gain or lose by having
"A == B" entail "A is B".

>* Is there a compelling need for additional set methods like
>   Set.powerset() and Set.isdisjoint(s) or are the current
>   offerings sufficient?

I don't know if the need is compelling, but I consider the implementation
incomplete without powerset() and some other functions. However, please
see my discussion of a partition function below.

>* Does the performance meet your expectations?

I don't know. For memory usage, I did some tests and it looks like a set
that is the singleton of an integer takes about 200 bytes, maybe a little
less. On the one hand that isn't bad, on the other, it's kind of big. 50
bytes would be great. Does or could Set use __slots__?
As for speed, see below. 

>* Do you care that sets can only contain hashable elements?

Is this required for efficiently preventing duplicate elements or at
least for having lookups be O(1)? Then I can live with it. In general
though I would think that the more types of things that are eligible to
be elements, the better.

>* How about the design constraint that the argument to most
>   set methods must be another Set (as opposed to any iterable)?

Fine with me. It is not obvious in the first place what you should expect
the union of a set and a tuple to be (in set theory, not Python).

>* Are the docs clear?  Can you suggest improvements?

5.13.1 Set Objects. The table of operations could list proper subset as
well as subset.
Also, I would be happy to see as much information as possible about O()
properties of sets. (Explicit, not "same as a dictionary".) Maybe that
doesn't belong in the documentation proper.

>* Are sets helpful in your daily work or does the need arise
>   only rarely?

I am strongly in favor of moving sets into the core language with
supporting syntax and a C implementation.

Part 2
---
What is true of the performance of a partition function for the most part
should be true of a powerset, combination, and permutation (for ordered
subsets) function.

In general, I don't know if a partition function has much use when you're
dealing with sets with moderately large numbers of members. The problem
with these functions is that their size grows quickly. I have ruled out
making one giant set of all the partitions because it is too big (1
million sets uses 200MB memory). Instead I have a generator function that
yields a different partition on each iteration. The problem then is that
it takes too long. I fear that, despite what I said above about including
them in a complete implementation of sets for Python, there may not be
any practical use for these functions except in limited domains with
small numbers of elements. 

So my question is for advice on improving my implementation (by a
constant factor would be great, by a factor of n would be amazing,
although maybe impossible), and also general advice on the best
performance I could ever hope for with these sorts of functions. Below
are some numbers, and then the code.

For those who don't know, a partition P of a set A is a set of mutually
exclusive and jointly exhaustive subsets of A. In other words, every
member of A is a member of exactly one member of P.

As I learned when working on this implementation, the number of
partitions for a set of size n is the Bell Number of n. The formula for
computing the Bell Number isn't really relevant at the moment, but here
are the Bell Numbers for 0,...,14:
1, 1, 2, 5, 15, 52, 203, 877, 4140, 21147, 115975, 678570, 4213597,
27644437, 190899322

This means that a set with 3 elements has 5 partitions. Here is an
example:
Partitions({a,b,c}) =
{
 {
  {a,b,c}
 }
 {
  {a,b},{c}
 }
 {
  {a,c},{b}
 }
 {
  {b,c},{a}
 }
 {
  {a},{b},{c}
 }
}

This shows one big set of all the partitions, where each partition is a
set of sets of elements. The function below, being a generator, does not
return one big set of all partitions, but a different partition on each
iteration.

Now, my computer is a 1.8GHz Athlon with 512MB RAM (PC133 unfortunately).
I use Fedora Core 1 Linux and Python 2.3 RPM from python.org. For a
benchmark, the following code takes about 10 seconds to run:

i = 10000000 #ten million
while i > 0:
    i -= 1

So here are some times for generating the partitions of sets of
increasing sizes:

1, <1s
2, <1s
3, <1s
4, <1s
5, <1s
6, <1s
7, <1s
8, <1s
9, 1.6s
10, 9s 
11, 53s
12, 5m25s

For my current project, I need to generate partitions of sets up to size
25. I am rather hopeless it will ever be feasible, and I have begun
looking for a different approach. Thanks for any replies!

#begin code

from sets import Set, ImmutableSet

#def singleton(s):
#    return Set([s])

def partitions(s):
    if len(s) <= 1:
        yield Set([s])
    else:
        x = Set([iter(s).next()])
        for t in partitions(s - x):
            yield t | Set([x])
            for u in t:
                yield (t - Set([u])) | Set([u | x])


s = Set("abcdefghij") #10 elements, which is 9s runtime
count = 0
for p in partitions(s):
    count += 1

print count




From davecook at nowhere.net  Wed Apr 14 02:35:41 2004
From: davecook at nowhere.net (David M. Cook)
Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2004 06:35:41 GMT
Subject: Looking for Python Definition
References: <ZvSdnbu-i7FDF-Hd4p2dnA@comcast.com>
Message-ID: <slrnc7pmtt.57p.davecook@localhost.localdomain>

In article <ZvSdnbu-i7FDF-Hd4p2dnA at comcast.com>, Dave wrote:

> Python22 is installed on my WINXP Home PC.
> I have no idea what is does, or why it is installed.

You mean they didn't also install Perl, awk, sed, bash, grep, find, and gcc?*
Any modern computer will ship with at least 40GB of drive space, and those
things are free, so why not?

Python is an interpreted programming language.  You're vendor probably
needed a Python interpreter for some extra functionality.  Or maybe they are
just really thoughtful folks, because they have made it easier for you to
run Python programs written by other people (not that installing Python is
hard), and also easier for people who want to write Python programs for you.

*To remedy these crippling deficiencies, go to http://cygwin.com

Dave Cook


From NAIGIMSESRIMAIL at gims.com  Thu Apr  1 07:18:00 2004
From: NAIGIMSESRIMAIL at gims.com (GroupShield for Exchange (ESRIMAIL))
Date: Thu, 1 Apr 2004 14:18:00 +0200 
Subject: ALERT -  GroupShield ticket number OB72_1080821869_ESRIMAIL_3 was
	generated
Message-ID: <B06B8FEF47ACD7119E720040F428459102124D19@ESRIMAIL>

Action Taken:
The message was blocked because of its subject.

To:
python-list at python.org <python-list at python.org>

From:
Michael Hudson <mwh at python.net>

Sent:
1501768448,29628387

Subject:
Re: test for nan

Attachment Details:-

Attachment Name: N/A
File: Infected.msg
Infected? No
Repaired? No
Blocked? Yes
Deleted? No
Virus Name: 



	
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From cpl.19.ghum at spamgourmet.com  Mon Apr  5 21:13:52 2004
From: cpl.19.ghum at spamgourmet.com (Harald Massa)
Date: Tue, 6 Apr 2004 03:13:52 +0200
Subject: Does Python compete with Java?
References: <8b336527.0404051337.51bb4a1b@posting.google.com>
	<1073su4etm95p35@news.supernews.com>
	<roy-094613.21022405042004@reader1.panix.com>
Message-ID: <Xns94C322B5A34ECcpl19ghumspamgourmet@62.153.159.134>

Roy Smith <roy at panix.com> wrote in news:roy-094613.21022405042004
@reader1.panix.com:

> http://www-users.cs.york.ac.uk/~susan/joke/foot.htm

>They don't have one for Python, but I expect it would be something like 
>this:

I think the most common solution is:


> How to Shoot Yourself In the Foot

Python
you discover that Guido used his time machine to shoot you in the foot 
years ago





From hungjunglu at yahoo.com  Tue Apr  6 03:47:43 2004
From: hungjunglu at yahoo.com (Hung Jung Lu)
Date: 6 Apr 2004 00:47:43 -0700
Subject: __import__() with packages
References: <c4p3f2$2j1tnb$1@ID-165840.news.uni-berlin.de>
	<1070cph9hedq9ee@news.supernews.com>
	<c4pdjv$2lnh1i$1@ID-165840.news.uni-berlin.de>
	<c4pdmu$2lnh1i$2@ID-165840.news.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <8ef9bea6.0404052347.4ac7d911@posting.google.com>

Marco Herrn <herrn at gmx.net> wrote in message news:<c4pdmu$2lnh1i$2 at ID-165840.news.uni-berlin.de>...
> Thanks,
> but in my application I read the names of the modules from a file,
> so I do not know them when writing (in this case I wouldn't know the
> name 'eggs'). Since the solution from Paul works for me, I will use
> that.

There is an easier way: all imported modules are listed in the
sys.modules namespace dictionary. So,

import sys
__import__('spam.eggs')
my_module = sys.modules['spam.eggs']

regards,

Hung Jung


From python at holdenweb.com  Wed Apr 14 21:37:45 2004
From: python at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2004 21:37:45 -0400
Subject: Pygame
In-Reply-To: <c5jt79$8m6$1@orkan.itea.ntnu.no>
References: <c5jdv2$s4$1@orkan.itea.ntnu.no>
	<xZydnfgqeaiK3ODdRVn-tw@powergate.ca>
	<c5jgvh$2m5$1@orkan.itea.ntnu.no>
	<mailman.620.1081958099.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<gandreas-33F0F9.12165314042004@news.mpls.visi.com>
	<c5jt79$8m6$1@orkan.itea.ntnu.no>
Message-ID: <OHlfc.1557$2e6.832@lakeread01>

Alexander R?dseth wrote:

[...]> (Note: "ipv6" is just an example, for the sake of the name, I 
know that it's
> not a standard Python-module).
> 
In point of fact since Python 2.3 the socket module has handled IPv6.

But if you mean that geeks like, and therefore tend to include, geeky 
things in their langauge distributions, you could have a point.

Nothing in the license stops you from building and distributing 
"friendly Python", though, so you might consider putting your own 
distribution together. If that's too hard, you will at least begin to 
get the idea why PyGame (and this, that and the other) aren't in the 
standard distribution.

If you get it together I believe you would increase Python's popularity.

regards
  Steve



From eric at zomething.com  Sun Apr  4 23:27:46 2004
From: eric at zomething.com (Eric @ Zomething)
Date: Sun, 4 Apr 2004 19:27:46 -0800
Subject: OT (was Re: But it still doesn't explain the joke)
Message-ID: <20040404192746.669306216.eric@zomething.com>

"Terry Reedy" wrote

> discussion Python, and leave such political discussions to more appropriate
> fora.

still OT...

I agree and think, further, we should refrain from discussions of post grammar, such as if I had been to point out the apparent English impropriety of the string 'discussion Python' (I would have then queried, "Discussion: Python" or "discussing Python"?, but I will not stoop to highlighting such).

:-)

hey, we may all be guilty of the occassional grammatical typo, or of thinking for ourselves, from time to time.

Whatever other political opinions may hold sway, I think we all enjoy the open exchange of ideas and technology (code! porgramming languages! algorithms!) that is currently allowed.  It was a scant few years back we in the U.S. could not export (including discussions in a forum such as this) basic information technology, without risk (of being a traitor of losing our liberty?).  It requires (peace) a certain world (peace) situation (peace) to allow this (peace), and I do not think we (peace) should take it for granted (peace).  There are many who would like to wall up the world and I think that would be a shame for newsgroups like this.... hide your code away and never let anyone outside the building see it...

in Python brotherhood,

[insert here hands extended within and across all borders in friendship and comraderie... and with regards]



Eric Pederson
[http://www.songzilla.blogspot.com]



From peter at engcorp.com  Fri Apr 16 10:04:27 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2004 10:04:27 -0400
Subject: Difficulty Finding Python Developers
In-Reply-To: <mailman.686.1082115401.20120.python-list@python.org>
References: <65cbc3dd.0404140641.3501fde8@posting.google.com><5d83790c.0404150701.605782a7@posting.google.com><roy-A17A1C.12565615042004@reader2.panix.com><7xpta8hqe7.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com><roy-A844BA.18263715042004@reader2.panix.com><7xsmf4kbac.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com><roy-B8AA1E.21270915042004@reader2.panix.com><7x7jwg7ipn.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>	<GfSdnRKGHIm2_-LdRVn-gg@powergate.ca>
	<mailman.686.1082115401.20120.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <D6idncWvro52euLdRVn-hg@powergate.ca>

Fredrik Lundh wrote:

> Peter Hansen wrote.
> 
>>>They're not, but the discussion was serious production projects.
>>
>>I thought the discussion was a 3-month project.  To me, that's
>>definitely not something I would classify as a "serious production
>>project".  I know, I know, the length alone shouldn't be enough
>>to call it serious or production or not.  It's just not the term
>>I would apply to something that short.  "Experiment", maybe, or
>>"quickie", or "co-op student project" or something...
> 
> hmm.  have I been posting to the wrong newsgroup?

Maybe, but not in this thread, so far, unless my news providers
is dropping messages.

(I'm sure there's a subtle point you're making, but it's too
subtle for my simple brain; forgive me.)

(And in case my point was unclear: the OP asked about something
which seemed like a very simple experimental project to get their
feet wet with Python.  Others seemed to be justifying their points
by shifting it towards major software engineering efforts.  I
understand their point, but just don't believe it applies in the
OP's case, unless I misinterpreted the OP's situation in which case
we'll probably hear back soon...)

-Peter


From calfdog at yahoo.com  Tue Apr 20 14:40:57 2004
From: calfdog at yahoo.com (calfdog at yahoo.com)
Date: 20 Apr 2004 11:40:57 -0700
Subject: imitating user input
References: <ebd4b44c.0404181137.6ec29ba8@posting.google.com>
	<4083CB4D.7050101@zoran.com>
Message-ID: <be499977.0404201040.10df91c0@posting.google.com>

Greg,

There are lots of ways to do this. Pamie is just one method.
basically you want to set the value of a two textboxes and submit the
form.

If you have an instance of the browse you can access it's methods and
attributes.

In Python you could do it this way:  

#Instantiate a new instance of the IE browser:
ieBrowser = DispatchEx('InternetExplorer.Application')

Now you have access to the textboxes and it's buttons
Since you have and instance of the browser ieBrowser you can begin:

For example a simple login page with username textbox, password
textbox and submit button.

ieBrowser.Document.forms[0].elements.all[username].value =
"YourUsername"
ieBrowser.Document.forms[0].elements.all[password ].value =
"YourPassword"
ieBrowser.Document.forms[0].elements.all[SubmitButtonName].form.submit()

You can get the actual names for your username, password and
SubmitButtonName from viewing the source of the Webpage and doing a
find on the word "input"

You can do the above in Perl VB ruby etc.. although the syntax may be
a little different.

Hope this helps.

Enjoy

RLM
Pamie creator




For more information:
http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/default.asp?url=/workshop/author/dhtml/reference/dhtml_reference_entry.asp


From jf at ypsilon.net  Thu Apr  1 10:07:25 2004
From: jf at ypsilon.net (fu)
Date: Thu, 01 Apr 2004 17:07:25 +0200
Subject: Using python with C Library
In-Reply-To: <bfef2a62.0404010704.36c068d3@posting.google.com>
References: <bfef2a62.0404010704.36c068d3@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <c4hb6s$2iukrg$1@ID-221108.news.uni-berlin.de>

hi there,
i got the following problem: I have a set of compiled C files, providing 
a API for a special encryption / decrytion of messages to be exchanged 
over the internet, well documented and with a lot of programming 
examples of how to work with it and its functions (in this case the 
examples are all in C). Now i want to use it with twisted/python 
together, to have all the advantages of twisted (especially the reactor 
instead of threading, deferred and so on), but the C API to do the last 
step before messages are send out.

The C API should just play some kind of middleware between the tcp-ip 
protokoll and the twisted server. Is it possible to extending python / 
twisted with that library by "just import" them?

Any kind of advice / suggestions would help

thanks
J.F.


From jcarlson at uci.edu  Sat Apr  3 16:53:45 2004
From: jcarlson at uci.edu (Josiah Carlson)
Date: Sat, 03 Apr 2004 13:53:45 -0800
Subject: Indent testers needed (Prothon)
In-Reply-To: <106tqq5e6gn8aaf@corp.supernews.com>
References: <Unqbc.131025$cx5.57643@fed1read04>
	<b5rbc.132699$cx5.63133@fed1read04>
	<Xns94C0217D6BF1rzed@63.223.5.95>
	<2Msbc.136673$cx5.2385@fed1read04>
	<c4lsa1$ai6$1@news.service.uci.edu>
	<106tqq5e6gn8aaf@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <c4nbvg$p6f$1@news.service.uci.edu>

>>The above code shows how you can make Prothon code
>>extraordinarily ugly by exploting the continuation rules.
>>Certainly most people don't see such ugly continuations
>>in Python, but I think rule #3 is begging for trouble.
> 
> That's a strawman. The fact that you *could* write strange code like that
> doesn't mean that there is anything wrong with Mark's continuation rules.

I state almost as much, "most people don't see such ugly continuations 
in Python", which expresses that we don't see that kind of ugly code in 
Python.  I believe that the reason for it is because most people don't 
like to see such ugly code.  However, as I said, I think that #3 is 
begging for some schmuck to exploit it.


> I could write a long Python program that uses no functions, classes, or
> anything else to break it into smaller understandable pieces. Just one big
> long piece of code that is indented to twenty levels. While I'm at it, I'll
> use variable names that obscure what the code does.
> 
> Does that imply that there should be a maximum length to a Python source
> file, a limit on the level of indenting, and restrictions on what variable
> names I can use? Of course not.

You're going a few steps beyond what I was saying.  I stated that it 
makes sense to discourage ugly code.  The code that you are describing 
is functionally impossible to maintain (unless it was generated by 
inlining all module-level function calls, something that you, I, or 
anyone else could technically do, or even write a program to do).  I 
think that by people using Python (or in this case Prothon), by 
definition it is implied that we should be writing maintainable code.

Personally, I don't find implicitly continued lines to be more 
maintainable than explicitly continued lines, and because explicit 
continuations (with '\') do the job already, if this were Python, it 
would violate both the "flat is better than nested" and "there should be 
one-- and preferably only one --obvious way to do it" zens.

As for whether Mark wants to follow the Zen of Python, that is up to 
him.  However, considering that he's using the c.l.py newsgroup to 
discuss Prothon, using a very large portion of the syntax of Python, and 
has talked about translating a large portion of the standard library of 
Python to Prothon via some sort of automatic method, I would say that 
violating the Zen is a foolish "early optimization".

  - Josiah


From mickel at csc.fi  Fri Apr  2 07:09:45 2004
From: mickel at csc.fi (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Mickel_Gr=F6nroos?=)
Date: Fri, 2 Apr 2004 15:09:45 +0300 (EEST)
Subject: emergent/swarm/evolutionary systems etc
In-Reply-To: <c4jjad$ce4$1@titan.btinternet.com>
References: <c4aeq8$92a$1@hercules.btinternet.com>
	<c4btjr$8il$1@titan.btinternet.com>
	<c4ccs2$l9j$1@news.service.uci.edu>
	<c4hjp4$dg6$1@sparta.btinternet.com>
	<c4ibr0$ngm$1@news.service.uci.edu> <c4jehj$6eh$1@titan.btinternet.com>
	<c4jjad$ce4$1@titan.btinternet.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0404021503410.6291@sampo.csc.fi>

On Fri, 2 Apr 2004, Peter MacKenzie wrote:

> import sys

You don't need the sys module for file I/O.

> file = 'myfile.txt'
> open(file,'r+b')
> file.write("some string of what you want to write")
> file.close()

"file" is a str object containing the string "myfile.txt". What you need
to do is catch the return value (a file object) of the open() function and
use that for writing:

file = "myfile.txt"
fh = open(file, "r+") ## Do you need "b" (binary) for a text file?
fh.write("something")
fh.close()

Cheers,

/Mickel

--
Mickel Gr?nroos, application specialist, linguistics, Research support, CSC
PL 405 (Tekniikantie 15 a D), 02101 Espoo, Finland, phone +358-9-4572237
CSC is the Finnish IT center for science, www.csc.fi



From fumanchu at amor.org  Mon Apr 26 11:35:10 2004
From: fumanchu at amor.org (Robert Brewer)
Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2004 08:35:10 -0700
Subject: Regular Expressions
Message-ID: <DE1CF2B4FEC4A342BF62B6B2B334601E562056@opus.amorhq.net>

sjf wrote:
> I would like to please to help me with build a regular expression.
> There are following piece of html code in my files:
> 
> <FONT COLOR="#FF0000">A - TYPE1: any_text<BR>
> B - TYPE2: any_text_2<BR>
> C - TYPE2: any_text_3<BR>
> w - any_text_15<BR>
> </FONT>
> html code
> </BODY></HTML>
> 
> I need to have only following data:
> (B, any_text_2)
> (C, any_text_3)
> that is, these data TYPE2 in which.

If you can guarantee that every TYPE2 is on its own line with the same
formatting:

>>> s = '<FONT COLOR="#FF0000">A - TYPE1: any_text<BR>\nB - TYPE2:
any_text_2<BR>\nC - TYPE2: any_text_3<BR>\nw -
any_text_15<BR>\n</FONT>\nhtml code'
>>> import re
>>> re.findall(r'(?m)^(.) - TYPE2: (.*)<BR>$', s)
[('B', 'any_text_2'), ('C', 'any_text_3')]


Robert Brewer
MIS
Amor Ministries
fumanchu at amor.org



From michael at foord.net  Tue Apr 13 10:39:00 2004
From: michael at foord.net (Fuzzyman)
Date: 13 Apr 2004 07:39:00 -0700
Subject: 3D Graphics Engine
Message-ID: <8089854e.0404130639.3eb0db62@posting.google.com>

I've seen various references to 3D graphics engines - and it's a
little difficult to know where to look.

I would like (in the long run) to be able to create and explore 3d
worlds - so texture mapping, light sourcing or shading and mesh shapes
would be nice - but I *don't* need the quality of a commercial game
system. Collision detection etc would be nice too.

Platform for development (!) is win32 - so I would like an engine with
precompiled binaries and a documented python binding available. A
freeware object modeller

So far I've seen :

Crystal Spaces - undocumented python binding, no 'easily' available
installation package (I can't see it anyway !!)

panda 3d - only accepts 3d objects from a comemrcial app (?)

vpython - very basic !

soya 3d - still unstable (??)

Can anyone reccomend a 3d engine for me to 'muck around with'.

Regards,


Fuzzy

http://www.voidspace.org.uk/atlantibots/pythonutils.html


From peter at engcorp.com  Fri Apr  2 06:58:29 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Fri, 02 Apr 2004 06:58:29 -0500
Subject: Apologies
In-Reply-To: <mailman.260.1080893698.20120.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.260.1080893698.20120.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <W8GdnXmdQs34yPDd4p2dnA@powergate.ca>

Tim Golden wrote:

> Apologies to all on the last for my rampant out-of-office
> messages. I'm using Exchange (over which I have no control), 
> and I thought it did the right thing by list replies. 
> 
> I'll make sure next time.

Maybe to help others who have sometimes been or will be in the
same boat, you could explain exactly what didn't and then did
work...?

Thank you,
-Peter


From scott.b.drummonds.nospam at intel.com  Thu Apr 15 12:38:20 2004
From: scott.b.drummonds.nospam at intel.com (Scott Brady Drummonds)
Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2004 09:38:20 -0700
Subject: Fast Data Comparison (dict v. list. v string)
References: <c5k8rp$ql6$1@news01.intel.com>
	<hIWdnXU6rJ7fC-PdRVn-iQ@comcast.com>
Message-ID: <c5mdpu$s6f$1@news01.intel.com>


"Larry Bates" <lbates at swamisoft.com> wrote in message
news:hIWdnXU6rJ7fC-PdRVn-iQ at comcast.com...
> Scott,
>
> You should take a close look at list comprehensions
> and possibly sets (new in V2.3).  I'm not all that
> familiar with sets, but your problem sounds like
> they might come in handy.

Excellent suggestion!  Thanks so much for the idea.

Scott




From jepler at unpythonic.net  Wed Apr 21 07:20:33 2004
From: jepler at unpythonic.net (Jeff Epler)
Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2004 06:20:33 -0500
Subject: Can't spawn, or popen from daemon
In-Reply-To: <1082481539.1395.21.camel@localhost>
References: <1082481539.1395.21.camel@localhost>
Message-ID: <20040421112032.GC5589@unpythonic.net>

Imagine that /usr/bin/lp has something like the following Python code at
the top:
    sys.stderr.write("something\n")
sys.stderr (stdio's stderr in C) in the called program is closed, so
this will return an error.  Whatever the error was, lp may be trying to
print *that* to stderr, too.  If there's some sort of failure, you're
not going to see the message.

You could try:
     os.popen('/usr/bin/lp -d printer1 %s 2>&1' % (filename))
to capture both stdout and stderr, or you could use the popen2 module to
get multiple handles for I/O with the child, or you could try (in
daemonize):
    nullfd = os.open("/dev/null", os.O_RDWR)
    os.dup2(nullfd, 0)
    os.dup2(nullfd, 1)
    os.dup2(nullfd, 2)
    os.close(nullfd)
to make the standard C files point at /dev/null (writes succeed, but the
data is discarded), in case it's an error reading stdin or writing to
stderr that is killing lp.

Jeff



From alloydflanagan at comcast.net  Thu Apr 29 10:29:25 2004
From: alloydflanagan at comcast.net (A. Lloyd Flanagan)
Date: 29 Apr 2004 07:29:25 -0700
Subject: String formatting (%)
References: <e567c03a.0404280035.79d0d973@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <e838aa6e.0404290629.364bddc5@posting.google.com>

pascal.parent at free.fr (Pascal) wrote in message news:<e567c03a.0404280035.79d0d973 at posting.google.com>...
> Hello,
> I've a float number 123456789.01 and, I'de like to format it like this
> "123 456 789.01".
> Is this possible with % character?

No, but this works with integers.  Not sure how it compares to the
other approaches mentioned.  You could adapt it to do floats by
stopping at the decimal point:

def addCommas(aNumber):
    if len(aNumber) < 4: return aNumber
    #how many digits before first ,?
    prefix = len(aNumber) % 3
    #need special case if digits is multiple of 3
    if prefix == 0: prefix = 3
    result = [aNumber[:prefix]]
    for a in range(len(aNumber) / 3):
        #get next 'segment' of three digits
        segment = aNumber[prefix + 3*a: prefix + 3*a + 3]
        if segment:  #can be '' if len(aNumber) divisible by 3
            result.append(segment)
    return ','.join(result)

I'm sure this can be improved.


From asdf at asdf.com  Tue Apr 13 14:11:05 2004
From: asdf at asdf.com (asdf sdf)
Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2004 18:11:05 GMT
Subject: Best IDE?
In-Reply-To: <mailman.543.1081755983.20120.python-list@python.org>
References: <c5bg1k$25vq$1@news.wplus.net>	<4ace7f9f.0404111147.3120288a@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.543.1081755983.20120.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <Z2Wec.22209$8V.18569@newssvr27.news.prodigy.com>

Timothy Wu wrote:

> rakanishu wrote:
> 
>> I don't know if I'd call 'em IDEs but it's worth taking the time to
>> learn either emacs or vim. Both are very powerful editors that run on
>> multiple platforms. I tried emacs three times, but couldn't get into
>> it. I'm now getting hooked on vim. YMMV.
> 
> 
> I love Vim. I really do. And it works wonderfully on both Linux and 
> Windows with Exuberant ctags (http://ctags.sourceforge.net/) on Python 
> code. However the only thing that's bugging me is once I'm used to using 
> Vi(that's practically the only editor I've ever use), I'm forever stuck 
> with using Vi. I wish all other real IDEs comes with Vi mode, or I can 
> somehow embed Vim in there (or someone else doing it for me as I'm not 
> that technical). I would love to be using an IDE if it doesn't slow me 
> down.
> 
> Timothy
> 
Check out Visual SlickEdit from Slickedit.com.

I would say this is an editor rather than an IDE.  But it is certainly 
an IDE if vi is one.

It emulates several other editors, including vi.  It can generate tag 
libraries, supporting autocomplete and function help for numerous 
languages with syntax coloring.  It can run build scripts.  Available on 
multiple platforms.  It is scriptable and extensible.

Too many features to mention.  If anyone can suggest a tool that is as 
powerful, that is not specific to a single language, please mention it.

Python, Javascript, HTML, C, C++, Perl, Java, TCL, ksh, bsh, COBOL, 
CFML, PL/SQL, PHP, Fortran, ADA ...

It must have support for 50 languages.










From eddie at holyrood.ed.ac.uk  Thu Apr  8 12:24:42 2004
From: eddie at holyrood.ed.ac.uk (Eddie Corns)
Date: Thu, 8 Apr 2004 16:24:42 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Distributing a Python based application on Linux
References: <98013c51.0404080807.6f08f1a3@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <c53uca$gap$1@scotsman.ed.ac.uk>

kramakrishnan at novell.com (Ramki) writes:

>Hi !!

>I have written an install script to deploy some of my product rpms.
>The install script does OS Version Check, OS Memory check, logging the
>status of install into a log file amongst other things.

>Now the size of my product rpms is around 3 MB. If I am to distribute
>Python along with the install, it is taking around 12 MB totally (the
>python gz tar is around 9 MB), which is not ideal.

>Is there way I can avoid this by distributing only the bare minimum
>Python related binary along with my rpms ?

Many versions of Linux have Python already so it may not be a problem.  Maybe
someone could concoct a Perl script that checks if Python is on the machine
and if not downloads it from a suitable location (either to a local directory
or to the system depending on need/access).  That way, only people who aren't
hip enough to have Python installed get penalised!

Eddie


From me at privacy.net  Wed Apr  7 06:56:08 2004
From: me at privacy.net (Heather Coppersmith)
Date: 07 Apr 2004 06:56:08 -0400
Subject: min() with custom compare.
References: <20040407114407.0a07d143@pistache.sara.nl>
Message-ID: <m2n05oxdiv.fsf@unique.phony.fqdn>

On Wed, 7 Apr 2004 11:44:07 +0200,
Bram Stolk <bram at nospam.sara.nl> wrote:

[ example of sort with custom compare function snipped ]

> What if I need only a max, or min value, and not a complete
> sort, but I do want to have a custom compare func.  What could I
> do?

> min() and max() built-ins cannot take a compare func.

Use reduce:

    def absolulte_minimum_function( x, y ):
        x, y = abs( x ), abs( y )
        if x < y:
            return x
        else:
            return y

    minimum = reduce( absolute_minimum_function, l )

There's probably some (awfully horrible) lambda-embeddable
equivalent to absolute_minimum_function, but I'm not about to try
to figure it out right now, and even if I did, I'd probably end up
not using it anyway.

HTH,
Heather

-- 
Heather Coppersmith
That's not right; that's not even wrong. -- Wolfgang Pauli


From fumanchu at amor.org  Fri Apr 23 10:54:40 2004
From: fumanchu at amor.org (Robert Brewer)
Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2004 07:54:40 -0700
Subject: bytecode JUMP_IF_* always followed by POP_TOP?
Message-ID: <DE1CF2B4FEC4A342BF62B6B2B334601E56204C@opus.amorhq.net>

Christos "TZOTZIOY" Georgiou wrote:
> On Thu, 22 Apr 2004 13:48:16 -0700, rumours say that "Robert Brewer"
> <fumanchu at amor.org> might have written:
> 
> >I notice that, whether JUMP_IF_FALSE jumps or not, the next 
> instruction
> >it executes is POP_TOP (in the above, instruction numbers 6 and 14).
> 
> The following thread is relevant <long URL>:
> 
> <URL:http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF
> -8&threadm=bpr6musc14m74uqss78iehtl72h9qrmu7o%404ax.com&rnum=1
> &prev=/groups%3Fq%3Dgroup%253Acomp.lang.python%2BPOP_TOP%2Baut
> hor%253ATZOTZIOY%26ie%3DUTF-8%26oe%3DUTF-8%26hl%3Den>

It doesn't have to be *quite* that long:
http://groups.google.com/groups?threadm=bpr6musc14m74uqss78iehtl72h9qrmu
7o%404ax.com

;)


> Check also my next message in that thread.
> 
> I remember the results were not that impressive in pystone and some
> other benchmarks (1-2% or less).

Yes, as you noted, it's more of a purity issue than anything else. I
actually ran across it while writing a decompiler...wondering if I could
check "next instruction is POP_TOP" to tell me anything useful about the
current JUMP code. But I'm past that now. :)


Robert Brewer
MIS
Amor Ministries
fumanchu at amor.org



From nmkolev at uni-bonn.de  Sun Apr  4 10:42:22 2004
From: nmkolev at uni-bonn.de (Nickolay Kolev)
Date: 4 Apr 2004 14:42:22 GMT
Subject: =?utf-8?q?Re=3A_Working_with_a_list_in_a_more_=E2=80=9Epythonic?=
	=?utf-8?b?4oCcIHdheQ==?=
References: <20040404124833458+0200@news.rhrz.uni-bonn.de> 
	<40700e82$1@nntp0.pdx.net>
Message-ID: <20040404164229129+0200@news.rhrz.uni-bonn.de>

> This is the part I'd change:
> 
>      # Setup: transitionScore['AF'] = soundScoreMatrix[0][5].
>      transitionScore = {}
>      for i in range(26):
>          first = chr(65+i)
>          row = soundScoreMatrix[i]
>          for j in range(26):
>              transitionScore[first + chr(65+j)] = row[j]

That would create another list containing all possible transitions, 
right? Are you doing this just to avoid indexing the matrix later when 
going over the phrase letter by letter?
 
>      def scoreit(phrase):
>          score = 0
>          for i in range(len(phrase) - 1):
>              score += transitionScore.get(phrase[i : i+2], 0)
>          return score
> 
> But if you insist on a more functional style:
> 
>      def scoreterse(phrase):
>          return sum([transitionScore.get(phrase[i : i+2], 0)
>                      for i in range(len(phrase) - 1)])

It is just those *for i in range(len(x))* things I was hoping to get rid 
of.

As mentioned, I have a solution that works and produces the expected 
results. I wanted to see if there was a clearer way to write what I had 
in mind. You see, writing the factorial function using "reduce" was a 
breakthrough for me... :-)

Thanks for your reply!

Nicky


From fxn at hashref.com  Fri Apr  2 11:44:07 2004
From: fxn at hashref.com (Xavier Noria)
Date: 2 Apr 2004 08:44:07 -0800
Subject: outline.el usage?
References: <31a13074.0404010226.6aba9509@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <31a13074.0404020844.5020099@posting.google.com>

fxn at hashref.com (Xavier Noria) wrote in message news:<31a13074.0404010226.6aba9509 at posting.google.com>...
> A Google search here for folding Python code in Emacs pointed to
> outline.el, but when I try to use some *-hide-* commands I get "Wrong
> type argument: stringp, nil". The header of the file has no
> introduction. What is the basic configuration for Python and what's
> the basic usage?

I am sorry twice: on one hand I meant outdent.el, and on the other
hand the problem was that I had a compiled .emacs I had completely
forgotten.

Now is working.

-- fxn


From gianluca.trombetta at tin.it  Tue Apr 13 11:01:31 2004
From: gianluca.trombetta at tin.it (Gianluca Trombetta)
Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2004 17:01:31 +0200
Subject: mcmillan installer
References: <mailman.575.1081855698.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<BMmdnUQEpNTsb-bdRVn-iQ@comcast.com>
Message-ID: <c5gvcg$ngb$1@sea.gmane.org>

thank you Larry,

but I need to compile for linux platform and py2exe only work on windows :-(

Gianluca


"Larry Bates" <lbates at swamisoft.com> ha scritto nel messaggio
news:BMmdnUQEpNTsb-bdRVn-iQ at comcast.com...
> You might also want to take a look at py2exe.  It seems to
> be under active development and Thomas Heller (author)
> monitors this list frequently.
>
> http://starship.python.net/crew/theller/py2exe/
>
> Larry Bates
> Syscon, Inc.
>
>
> "Gianluca Trombetta" <gianluca.trombetta at tin.it> wrote in message
> news:mailman.575.1081855698.20120.python-list at python.org...
> > Hi all,
> >
> > I'm searching a tool that compile python script to an executable binary.
> > I found the mcmillan installer but i can't find a valid url to download
> it.
> >
> > Do someone know a valid url to download it or know another similar tool?
> >
> > Thanks.
> > Gianluca
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> -- 
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>






From dwelch91 at comcast.net  Wed Apr 14 11:26:19 2004
From: dwelch91 at comcast.net (djw)
Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2004 15:26:19 GMT
Subject: interpreter limits
In-Reply-To: <7xisg3vfat.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
References: <m3zn9f95xm.fsf@union.tjtech.com>
	<407c23bf$0$570$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>
	<m3u0zn93sg.fsf@union.tjtech.com>
	<407c2ecc$0$574$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>
	<7xisg3vfat.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <vKcfc.141399$K91.354742@attbi_s02>

Paul Rubin wrote:

> Irmen de Jong <irmen at -nospam-remove-this-xs4all.nl> writes:
> 
>>Can't you do something smart with signals, threads, alarm() and kill() ?
>>Like running the code in a worker thread, where the main thread
>>keeps track of how long it has been running and if not finished
>>within a certain time, kill() it.
> 
> 
> How do you kill a thread from another thread?  I don't know of any way
> to do that.
> 
> Maybe it's safest to run the user script in a separate process and
> communicate through a socket or through shm.  That allows using the
> normal OS features for resource limits, file protection, etc.
My exploration into threads indicated that you can't kill one thread 
from another.

-Don


From bo at systemhouse.dk  Thu Apr 22 12:52:48 2004
From: bo at systemhouse.dk (Bo Jacobsen)
Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2004 18:52:48 +0200
Subject: How to get the ip addresses of a nic
References: <LEfhc.146586$jf4.7761132@news000.worldonline.dk>
	<2e262238.0404211825.2f6231b@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <GLShc.148058$jf4.7829387@news000.worldonline.dk>

> > Is there a simple way to get all the ip addresses of a nic, beyound
parsing
> > /etc/sysconfig/.....
>
> Depending on your needs:
>
> >>> socket.gethostbyname(socket.gethostname())
> '192.168.0.18'
>
> Justin Dubs

I need to get addresses on hosts with mulitiple nics, and with multiple
aliases.

Trying to parse output from "$ip addr show" on those hosts are not easy.

Bo




From loic at fejoz.net  Fri Apr  9 04:00:18 2004
From: loic at fejoz.net (Yermat)
Date: Fri, 09 Apr 2004 10:00:18 +0200
Subject: Special Method and Class
In-Reply-To: <mailman.467.1081452388.20120.python-list@python.org>
References: <c544a4$2gnk$1@biggoron.nerim.net>	<20040408184749.GA5285@performancedrivers.com>
	<mailman.467.1081452388.20120.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <c55l7u$oet$1@arcturus.ciril.fr>

Jack Diederich wrote:
> On Thu, Apr 08, 2004 at 02:47:49PM -0400, Jack Diederich wrote:
> 
>>On Thu, Apr 08, 2004 at 08:07:01PM +0200, Yermat wrote:
>>
>>>Hi all,
>>>
>>>Why does special methods not work on class ? Or how to make them work ?
>>>Here a simple example :
>>>
>>>
>>>>>>class Test(object):
>>>
>>>...     def __repr__(cls):
>>>...         return "<special %s>" % cls.__name__
>>>...     __repr__ = classmethod(__repr__)
>>>...
>>>
>>>>>>print repr(Test)
>>>
>>><class '__main__.Test'>
>
>This is your clue, this didn't print <special Test>
>for the same reason the __iter__ does work below.
>The special __method__'s only work for instances of
>the class and not for the class itself.
>
>>
>>>>>print repr(Test)
>>
>><class '__main__.Test'>
>>
>>>>>print repr(Test())
>>
>><special Test>
> 
> 
> This deserves a better explanation,
> repr(some_instance) will call the __repr__ method of the thing that foo
> is an instance of. 
> 
> You normally think of objects as instances of a class, but classes are 
> also an instances of a type.  Now you're in metaclass territory which 
> is overkill for what you want to do.
> 
> illustration:
> 
> class MetaFoo(type):
>   """define our own type"""
>   def __repr__(self):
>     return 'this is an instance of MetaFoo'
> 
> class Foo(object):
>   """define a class which is an instance of our own type"""
>   __metaclass__ = MetaFoo
>   def __repr__(self):
>     return 'this is an instance of Foo'
> 
> 
>>>>repr(Foo)
> 
> 'this is an instance of MetaFoo'
> 
>>>>repr(Foo())
> 
> 'this is an instance of Foo'
> 
> I can't think of a reason that classmethod() would be useful or legal
> when applied to magic methods like __repr__.  Maybe it should throw
> an exception instead.  It is possible to do things with a classmethod
> __repr__ but it is a very obscure way to get the end effect.
> 
> def Foo(object):
>   which = 'class'
>   def __init__(self):
>     self.which = 'instance'
>   def __repr__(cls):
>     return "Foo with which of " + cls.which
>   __repr__ = classmethod(__repr__)
> 
> 
>>>>repr(Foo())
> 
> 'Foo with which of class'
> 
> 
> -jackdied
> 


Ok thanks, I see my mistake !
I thought that those special method were bounded methods but they are not...

 >>> class toto(object):
...     def __init__(self, name):
...             self.name = name
...     def __repr__(self):
...             return "toto('%s')" % self.name
...
 >>>
 >>> t = toto('titi')
 >>> repr(t)
"toto('titi')"
 >>> t.__repr__
<function anotherRepr at 0x402dc454>
 >>> t.__init__
<bound method toto.__init__ of toto('titi')>

That also mean that I can't change the __repr__ for only one instance :
 >>> def anotherRepr(self):
...     return "anotherRepr('%s')" % self.name
...
 >>>
 >>> t.__repr__ = anotherRepr
 >>>
 >>> repr(t)
"toto('titi')"


Is it really consistent ?
Should'nt it be also bounded methods even for clas instead of using 
MetaClass ?

Yermat



From newsgroups at jhrothjr.com  Wed Apr 28 22:48:12 2004
From: newsgroups at jhrothjr.com (John Roth)
Date: Wed, 28 Apr 2004 22:48:12 -0400
Subject: Is classless worth consideration
References: <g9k090lhocd1nbd7g230br6ooub113hjt6@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <1090r77d97k0tb1@news.supernews.com>


"David MacQuigg" <dmq at gain.com> wrote in message
news:g9k090lhocd1nbd7g230br6ooub113hjt6 at 4ax.com...
> On 27 Apr 2004 16:34:56 -0700, has.temp2 at virgin.net (has) wrote:
>
> >David MacQuigg <dmq at gain.com> wrote in message
news:<bniq80hiib0gauiltuntk9jvia2getbnj4 at 4ax.com>...
> >
> >> Example of Simplified Classes ( Prototypes )
> >> ============================================
> >
> >[SNIP]
> >
> >Class-based OOP by any other name. But then, I've pointed this out
> >already. See Emperor, clothes; lack of.
> >
> >Here; while I don't claim them to be paragons of programming, I
> >suggest taking a look at my old AppleScript libraries at
> ><http://applemods.sourceforge.net/>. (Note: scripts are compiled, so
> >you'll need a Mac to view source.) See Types, HTMLTemplate and ASTest
> >for examples of OO programming that isn't class-fixated. Might lend
> >some useful perspective.
>
> The problem we Python programmers are having is understanding the
> fundamental advantage of eliminating classes and working only with
> instances.  The theoretical discussions put me to sleep.  I can't see
> the point of the examples above.  What we need is a simple use case.
>
> I've included the ability to clone one instance from another in my
> "Python 3" proposal
> http://ece.arizona.edu/~edatools/Python/PrototypeSyntax.htm
> This will allow the user to completely ignore classes, and just make
> one instance from another, then another, and so on, modifying each
> instance along the way, whenever the urge is felt.
>
> Here is what I have so far in the Pros and Cons on this feature:
>
> Pro:  Allows "on-the-fly" programming style with no classes.
> Con:  Can lead to more undisciplined programming.
>
> Perhaps you can help us here.

So far, I have one use case: text adventure game programming.
Most of the objects in such games are one-off, and having to
create a class and an instance for each piece of scenery is more
than a bit much. This is one of the reasons that standard programming
languages have never gotten much traction in that domain.

It's just occured to me that backing into that particular
issue might work: use class methods and never bother
with instantiating the classes at all. I'm not sure what
we'd lose. (possibly descriptors?)

John Roth


>
> -- Dave
>




From jacek.generowicz at cern.ch  Mon Apr 26 08:07:07 2004
From: jacek.generowicz at cern.ch (Jacek Generowicz)
Date: 26 Apr 2004 14:07:07 +0200
Subject: Magic methods in extension types
References: <tyfisfnt2zd.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
	<m3isfnm1bg.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <tyfekqbt02c.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>

Michael Hudson <mwh at python.net> writes:

> Not finding the tp_as_number->nb_inplace_add field?

( ... or tp_as_sequence ... )

I was afraid you (someone) was going to say that.

> I think *all* magic methods correspond to slots in (or near) the type
> object -- it's practically the definition of "magic method"!

Hmmm

    >>> class foo:
    ...     def __iadd__(self,other):
    ...         print "__iadd__ running"
    ...         return self
    ... 
    >>> f = foo()
    >>> f += 2
    __iadd__ running

I'd be surprised if I've added __iadd__ to a type object here, yet it
seems to work.

Python manages to map "+=" to the method called "__iadd__" in
user-defined classes, but not for extension types. What is the
essential difference that makes that mapping work in one case but not
in the other?



From nicksjacobson at yahoo.com  Thu Apr 29 10:07:39 2004
From: nicksjacobson at yahoo.com (Nick Jacobson)
Date: 29 Apr 2004 07:07:39 -0700
Subject: static keyword
Message-ID: <f8097096.0404290607.78aa9ce3@posting.google.com>

I believe the following "static" command would be useful in Python.

def foo():
    static i = [10, 11]
    static firstcall = True
    if firstcall:
        print "First pass"
        firstcall = False
    i[0] += 1
    print i[0]
foo()
foo()


This would output:

First pass
11
12

Just like in C, the variables i and firstcall are only assigned the
first time foo() is called.  To get this effect currently, one could
use default arguments or wrapping the whole thing in a class.  Both of
these solutions seem like hacks, the above method IMO is more
Pythonic. :)

I have a feeling this has been discussed before, but I can't find
anything on it.  Thanks,

--Nick


From mcfletch at rogers.com  Wed Apr 14 17:02:47 2004
From: mcfletch at rogers.com (Mike C. Fletcher)
Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2004 17:02:47 -0400
Subject: Difficulty Finding Python Developers
In-Reply-To: <1081975009.10988.2@ersa.uk.clara.net>
References: <65cbc3dd.0404140641.3501fde8@posting.google.com>	<mailman.619.1081956829.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<1081975009.10988.2@ersa.uk.clara.net>
Message-ID: <407DA6F7.7000405@rogers.com>

Garry Knight wrote:

>In message <mailman.619.1081956829.20120.python-list at python.org>, Mike C.
>Fletcher wrote:
>
>  
>
>>      I'm an alumni, so UofW is obviously not all it's cracked up to be ;)
>>    
>>
>
>Apparently not. 'Alumni' is the plural form. You're an alumnus.  :o)
>  
>
Good thing I didn't take any English courses while there; you can blame 
that one on my high-school :) .

*poof*

_______________________________________
  Mike C. Fletcher
  Designer, VR Plumber, Coder
  http://members.rogers.com/mcfletch/





From imbosol at aerojockey.invalid  Sun Apr  4 20:14:58 2004
From: imbosol at aerojockey.invalid (Carl Banks)
Date: Mon, 05 Apr 2004 00:14:58 GMT
Subject: Working with a list in a more ?pythonic? way
References: <20040404124833458+0200@news.rhrz.uni-bonn.de>
Message-ID: <6y1cc.1344$Qv6.220@fe2.columbus.rr.com>

Nickolay Kolev wrote:
> I have come up with the following solution, but I hope some of you might 
> suggest a more _functional_ (reduce and map) way of diong it.
>
> n = 0           # the final score of the string
> 
> for i in range(len(phrase)):
>        try:
>                n += soundScoreMatrix[ord(x[i]) - 65][ord(x[i + 1]) - 65]
>        except IndexError:
>                pass
> 
> I was thinking about using "reduce", but that would not work as the 
> input and output of the function I would use are different (string input, 
> integer output).


IMO, the clearest functional way to do it (where, for the sake of
argument, we're defining functional not to include list comps) is to
use offset slices.  The idea is to use one slice of phrase to
represent the first index, and a second slice, offset by one, to
represent the second index in the matrix.  I'd also map the phrase
into integers beforehand.  Take a look:

   iphrase = map(lambda x:ord(x)-65,phrase)
   n = sum(map(lambda a,b: soundScoreMatrix[a][b], iphrase[:-1], iphrase[1:]))

If you want to use reduce instead of sum (say you're not yet at Python
2.3), then replace "sum(x)" with "reduce(operator.add,x)".


-- 
CARL BANKS                      http://www.aerojockey.com/software
"If you believe in yourself, drink your school, stay on drugs, and
don't do milk, you can get work." 
          -- Parody of Mr. T from a Robert Smigel Cartoon


From grey at despair.dmiyu.org  Wed Apr 28 19:32:18 2004
From: grey at despair.dmiyu.org (Steve Lamb)
Date: Wed, 28 Apr 2004 23:32:18 GMT
Subject: Is Perl *that* good?
References: <c6ich0$c5mee$1@ID-205437.news.uni-berlin.de>
	<knbjc.267$id.3998@news2.e.nsc.no>
	<pan.2004.04.26.20.50.19.843510@hotmail.com>
	<87fzaqmm8t.fsf@strauser.com>
	<38ec68a6.0404262308.50029919@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.49.1083084698.25742.python-list@python.org>
	<pan.2004.04.27.18.15.56.169064@hotmail.com>
	<Z_Bjc.1397$ZD3.139@fe1.columbus.rr.com>
	<roy-C1F2BF.19434527042004@reader2.panix.com>
	<ECCjc.30580$Vp5.25085@fe2.columbus.rr.com>
	<roy-15912E.20355127042004@reader2.panix.com>
	<XwEjc.31513$Vp5.16074@fe2.columbus.rr.com>
Message-ID: <slrnc90fqf.lov.grey@dmiyu.org>

On 2004-04-28, Carl Banks <imbosol at aerojockey.invalid> wrote:
> Because if regexp objects are local, they have to be recompiled every
> time you call the function.  If you're doing that, you could be taking
> a performance hit.  I guess it depends on your functional style,
> though.  If your scripts have only one or two functions where all the
> regexps are and it only gets called a few times, then it probably
> won't matter too much to you.

    Hrm, this gives me a hint on why one of my work scripts seems to be
running so slowly.  I think I might be compiling REs every pass and it
shouldn't be.  

-- 
         Steve C. Lamb         | I'm your priest, I'm your shrink, I'm your
       PGP Key: 8B6E99C5       | main connection to the switchboard of souls.
-------------------------------+---------------------------------------------


From jwsacksteder at ramprecision.com  Mon Apr 19 09:08:59 2004
From: jwsacksteder at ramprecision.com (jwsacksteder at ramprecision.com)
Date: Mon, 19 Apr 2004 09:08:59 -0400
Subject: outline-style sorting algorithm
Message-ID: <71650A6F73F1D411BE8000805F65E3CB3B3A4D@SRV-03>

I have a need to sort a list of elements that represent sections of a
document in dot-separated notation. The built in sort does the wrong thing.
This seems a rather complex problem and I was hoping someone smarter than me
had already worked out the best way to approach this. For example, consider
the following list-

>>> foo
['1.0', '1.0.1', '1.1.1', '1.2', '1.9', '1.10', '1.11', '1.20', '1.20.1',
'1.30']
>>> foo.sort()
>>> foo
['1.0', '1.0.1', '1.1.1', '1.10', '1.11', '1.2', '1.20', '1.20.1', '1.30',
'1.9']

Obviously 1.20.1 should be after 1.9 if we look at this as dot-delimited
integers, not as decimal numbers.

Does anyone have pointers to existing code?










From donn at u.washington.edu  Wed Apr 28 14:02:49 2004
From: donn at u.washington.edu (Donn Cave)
Date: Wed, 28 Apr 2004 11:02:49 -0700
Subject: Why we will use obj$func() often
References: <d2Uhc.22272$dZ1.1600@fed1read04> <84Uhc.22278$dZ1.5087@fed1read04>
	<mailman.927.1082665370.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<8AWhc.23114$dZ1.11070@fed1read04> <40883BFE.B381518A@alcyone.com>
	<27_hc.23801$dZ1.2716@fed1read04> <40887145.789A2FE8@alcyone.com>
	<7cki80hj976bia36lhf9er97v073o1pqvm@4ax.com>
	<w8dic.28710$dZ1.11206@fed1read04> <ulXiAls/KH1K089yn@the-wire.com>
	<lkfic.29767$dZ1.17301@fed1read04>
	<donn-66132E.15345723042004@nntp3.u.washington.edu>
	<PLhic.30493$dZ1.22063@fed1read04>
	<c6huj3$c3s3f$1@ID-169208.news.uni-berlin.de>
	<u8zjc.7394$Qy.127@fed1read04>
	<c6ni3j$e0vbb$1@ID-169208.news.uni-berlin.de>
	<5vJjc.13116$Qy.1954@fed1read04>
Message-ID: <donn-FB76CA.11024928042004@nntp3.u.washington.edu>

In article <5vJjc.13116$Qy.1954 at fed1read04>,
 "Mark Hahn" <mark at prothon.org> wrote:
...
> I guess the whole problem is my insistence on simple scope indentification
> by looking at the variable.  It causes the var to need to be tagged.

Well, in a sense this is a simplistic avoidance of scope.  Scope
is how unqualified identifiers are resolved.  You hope that actual
usage is simple enough that a relative qualifier will prop up the
weaknesses of Python's half-lexical, half-dynamic system;  Greg
points out that it doesn't handle more complex usage like nested
functions (and Simon's list comprehension / loop).  You can dismiss
those as uncommon problems, but then this whole feature addresses
a problem that bothers only those who choose to be afflicted.

> I feel strongly that the Python mixture of declaration (global), default
> (where assigned) and broken (closures) is broken overall and has to be fixed
> in Prothon.  I take this as a given.  So I see these possible solutions:
> 
> 1) My Ruby-like symbols, which I think are readable and fast-compilable.
> 
> 2) Word-like symbols, which are large, less readable (too me) and
> cluttering.
> 
> 3) Declarations, which cause the compiler and user to look around and are
> not Pythonic.
> 
> Am I missing any other solutions?

I've already talked about making scope purely lexical, only explicit
dynamic name space binding.
http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=1082827791.810981%40yasure&oe=UTF-8&
output=gplain

As I said there, declaration isn't an interesting part of that,
but the idea that declarations are "not Pythonic" strikes me as
particularly absurd (not to mention just seeing you, of all people,
offer this criticism.)  What is "class"?  What is "def"?

   Donn Cave, donn at u.washington.edu


From imbosol at aerojockey.com  Thu Apr  8 17:00:31 2004
From: imbosol at aerojockey.com (Carl Banks)
Date: 8 Apr 2004 14:00:31 -0700
Subject: surface fitting library for Python?
References: <40748902$0$17253$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
Message-ID: <60dfb6f6.0404081300.78bbe0f9@posting.google.com>

Grant Edwards <grante at visi.com> wrote in message news:<40748902$0$17253$a1866201 at newsreader.visi.com>...
> I'm looking for a surface fitting library for Python. 
> 
> Something like the least-squares module in scientific python,
> except I want to fit a surface (z = f(x,y)) instead of a curve
> (y = f(x)).


Idea: see if you can use the versatility of Python to fool SciPy into
fitting a surface when it thinks it's fitting a curve.  I don't know
the exact interface of the function you speak of, but I assume you
pass in a function taking two arguments (a paramter vector and an
independent variable), a data vector of x values, and a data vector of
f(x) values.  I wonder if these vectors can be Python vectors, or do
they have to be a Numeric vectors?  If a Python vector suffices, then
you can perhaps write your function to accept a tuple rather than a
single independent value:

    def f(paramters,(x,y)):
        whatever

Then, for your independent values vector, instead of [1,2,3,4] you'd
use with a 2-D curve, use [(1,1),(1,2),(2,1)].

Even if a Scipy requires Numeric vectors, I think there's a good
chance it can still do this.  Knowing what I know about Numeric, I
suspect SciPy might do the right thing if you pass in a rank 2 array
as the independent variable vector.  It might directly pass the an
element of your rank 2 array, which is a rank 1 array, to your
function (and it might not).


> I found a couple other curve fitting libraries (some are
> wrappers to C/Fortran libs I don't have), and I found a
> curve and surface-fitting web page (www.zuzun.com) that's
> written in Python -- I found a couple postings by James R.
> Phillips (zunzun's author) and I suspect he's calling a
> non-Python library of some sort.
> 
> What's the recommended method for doing surface fitting in
> Python?

If SciPy can't do it, it's not too hard to do it by hand, unless there
are bounds or unless you want to minimize a non-Euclidean distance. 
The setup is the hard part; Numeric can do solve a linear least
squares problem in one call.


-- 
CARL BANKS


From ramen at lackingtalent.com  Mon Apr 12 18:35:16 2004
From: ramen at lackingtalent.com (Dave Benjamin)
Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2004 22:35:16 -0000
Subject: list comprehensions
References: <yjZcc.42823$Pk3.9547@pd7tw1no> <c56n0j$9r8$1@panix1.panix.com>
Message-ID: <slrnc7m71l.2id.ramen@lackingtalent.com>

In article <c56n0j$9r8$1 at panix1.panix.com>, Aahz wrote:
> In article <yjZcc.42823$Pk3.9547 at pd7tw1no>,
> Elaine Jackson <elainejackson7355 at home.com> wrote:
>>
>>List comprehensions don't work the way you intuitively expect them
>>to work. I realize many people have no intuitions about how list
>>comprehensions 'should' work, so if you recognize yourself in this
>>description, feel free to go back to whatever you were doing before. If
>>you're still here, though, I invite you to consider the following
>>definition:
> 
> Short response: don't write complex listcomps.

Would you consider a 2D loop too complex for a listcomp?

-- 
.:[ dave benjamin: ramen/[sp00] -:- spoomusic.com -:- ramenfest.com ]:.
:  please talk to your son or daughter about parametric polymorphism. :


From newsgroups at jhrothjr.com  Wed Apr 14 11:05:34 2004
From: newsgroups at jhrothjr.com (John Roth)
Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2004 11:05:34 -0400
Subject: Pygame
References: <c5jdv2$s4$1@orkan.itea.ntnu.no>
Message-ID: <107qkrbhnjpmh9b@news.supernews.com>


"Alexander R?dseth" <alexanro at stud.ntnu.no> wrote in message
news:c5jdv2$s4$1 at orkan.itea.ntnu.no...
> Hi!
>
> Why isn't Pygame a part of Python?

Why should it be?

In looking thorough the libarary, I find that
everything there is a developer tool of some
sort. The few executables are things like
unittest which are standard parts of the
developer's tool chain.

John Roth


>
> Cheers,
>    Alexander R?dseth
>
>




From jdhunter at ace.bsd.uchicago.edu  Sun Apr 18 14:05:38 2004
From: jdhunter at ace.bsd.uchicago.edu (John Hunter)
Date: Sun, 18 Apr 2004 13:05:38 -0500
Subject: python module for interactive web charts
In-Reply-To: <hahgc.23618$zk1.8252@newssvr27.news.prodigy.com> ("Moosebumps"'s
	message of "Sat, 17 Apr 2004 21:18:05 GMT")
References: <hahgc.23618$zk1.8252@newssvr27.news.prodigy.com>
Message-ID: <m2y8otjh59.fsf@mother.paradise.lost>

>>>>> "Moosebumps" == Moosebumps  <moosebumps at moosebumps.com> writes:

    Moosebumps> Is there anything that is made to generate web pages
    Moosebumps> which have charts similar to the yahoo finance stock
    Moosebumps> charts?  Not looking to graph stocks specifically, but
    Moosebumps> anything.  I like how you can zoom on each axis, and
    Moosebumps> maybe click to see numerical values and such.

    Moosebumps> If there isn't anything in Python, what do people
    Moosebumps> typically use for that kind of stuff, or is it all
    Moosebumps> hand-rolled?

matplotlib is a 2D plotting library that supports a number of plot
types - http://matplotlib.sourceforge.net/screenshots.html.  The
library can generate plots either to GUIs or just generate images if
you want to use it in a web application server.  See this link
http://matplotlib.sourceforge.net/faq.html#APPSERVER for more
information about using matplotlib in a web server.  There are
interactive navigation tools for panning and zooming, etc.

The next release 0.53 due out early next week will have a lot of
support for making date plots, using python datetimes, mx.Datetime, or
other, with a hodge podge of minor and major date tick locators and
formatters.  There is also a financial module in the works which will
be finished soon for candlestick plots and the like.

If you're interested in getting announcements when these features are
ready, you may want to join the mailing list
http://lists.sourceforge.net/mailman/listinfo/matplotlib-users.

Cheers,
John Hunter




From nhodgson at bigpond.net.au  Sat Apr  3 17:37:29 2004
From: nhodgson at bigpond.net.au (Neil Hodgson)
Date: Sat, 03 Apr 2004 22:37:29 GMT
Subject: Indent testers needed (Prothon)
References: <Unqbc.131025$cx5.57643@fed1read04>
	<noOdnTqctOE3pPPdRVn-tw@powergate.ca>
	<du7wu4xlbd7.fsf@lehtori.cc.tut.fi> <c4n30f$6s3$1@panix3.panix.com>
Message-ID: <J0Hbc.138360$Wa.94796@news-server.bigpond.net.au>

Aahz:
> It's not precisely a rumor; Guido has stated that this is one of the
> things he's thinking seriously about for Python 3.0.  There will be
> enough incompatibilities that this one won't add much extra strain,
> given that the official rules for Python (PEP 8) have mandated only
> spaces for several years.

   PEP 8 is a 'style guide' which does not 'mandate' anything. It does not
deprecate tab usage, merely strongly recommends spaces-only for new
projects.

   Neil




From peter at engcorp.com  Sun Apr 11 22:14:33 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Sun, 11 Apr 2004 22:14:33 -0400
Subject: maximum length of a list & tuple
In-Reply-To: <c5avps$qh$1@news.service.uci.edu>
References: <c54lq3$2pe1sf$1@ID-202776.news.uni-berlin.de>
	<bvednZaKK7OybejdRVn-iQ@centurytel.net>
	<c55okv$2o3eql$1@ID-202776.news.uni-berlin.de>
	<c59igu$hto$1@news.service.uci.edu>
	<hlhh70drqg7fhvn9e3keosdvdp01ulok7r@4ax.com>
	<c5avps$qh$1@news.service.uci.edu>
Message-ID: <LKWdnSm0Fq4VZuTdRVn-ug@powergate.ca>

Josiah Carlson wrote:

>>> Run the following and the last thing it prints out is your limit...
>>>
>>>    c = 1
>>>    while c < 2**32:
>>>        try:
>>>            d = [1]*c
>>>            print c
>>>            c *= 2
>>>        except:
>>>            break
>>
>>
>>
>> Interesting experiment.  I get 64M on my 384MB machine, which suggests 4
>> bytes per list entry.  Of course, now my swap file is packed full, and 
>> all
>> my apps are running slowly while they page themselves back in...
> 
> 
> Far more than 4 bytes per list entry.  4 bytes to store the integers 
> themselves, but since integers are Python objects, and lists are arrays 
> of pointers to list objects, there is quite a bit of other extra stuff 
> attached.

Actually, unless I'm mistaken that stores only one integer, and a whole
lot of references to it...  which are just pointers (4 bytes each).

The technique is probably flawed in other ways, however, as it
is likely subject to memory fragmentation and other problems.

-Peter


From eric at zomething.com  Sun Apr 18 18:16:46 2004
From: eric at zomething.com (Eric @ Zomething)
Date: Sun, 18 Apr 2004 14:16:46 -0800
Subject: New scripts directory
Message-ID: <20040418141646.1249365013.eric@zomething.com>


Mikl?s wrote:
> 
> That's sorta funny. Or is it? You annouce a new website on comp.lang.python
> and there's no Python section on that site..


Python?  Who is Python?

[I am not sure who he is, but apparently he needs Vicodin and Viagra]



From RIACS at riacs.edu  Tue Apr  6 02:34:50 2004
From: RIACS at riacs.edu (RIACS at riacs.edu)
Date: Mon, 5 Apr 2004 23:34:50 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: (no subject)
Message-ID: <200404060634.i366Yoo17626@icarus.riacs.edu>

Barry Leiner passed away on April 2, 2003.  Please contact leiner_request at riacs.edu for all inquiries.



From no at spam.invalid  Wed Apr 21 15:54:59 2004
From: no at spam.invalid (Russell E. Owen)
Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2004 12:54:59 -0700
Subject: Easiest way to *add a column* to a 2d matrix/array in
	numarray???
References: <bf23f78f.0404200803.4b065887@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <c66jij$nps$1@nntp6.u.washington.edu>

In article <bf23f78f.0404200803.4b065887 at posting.google.com>,
 seberino at spawar.navy.mil (Christian Seberino) wrote:

>How add a column to a 2d array/matrix in numarray???
>
>The unelegant way I found was to:
>
>1. Create a new array with an extra column (e.g. using 'zeros' function).
>2. Copy original array into new array.
>3. Copy new column into last column.
>
>Is there a slicker way to do this?

Try numarray.resize

-- Russell


From opengeometry at yahoo.ca  Fri Apr 23 15:41:01 2004
From: opengeometry at yahoo.ca (William Park)
Date: 23 Apr 2004 19:41:01 GMT
Subject: Regexp optimization question
References: <slrnc8gal3.9da.mlh@furu.idi.ntnu.no>
	<c69b42$9f6eq$1@ID-99293.news.uni-berlin.de>
	<slrnc8iejt.7j7.mlh@furu.idi.ntnu.no>
Message-ID: <c6brgc$a70l0$1@ID-99293.news.uni-berlin.de>

Magnus Lie Hetland <mlh at furu.idi.ntnu.no> wrote:
> Now I can do something like this:
> 
>   hits = []
>   for pat in pats:
>       hits.extend(pat.finditer(text))
>   # Maybe sort them in order of occurrence
> 
> *Or* I can do something like this:
> 
>   bigPat = '(' + '|'.join(pats) + ')'
>   hits = list(bigPat.finditer(text))
> 
> The last one is *much* faster -- but only if I forego named groups.
> And without them, I can't find out which patterns matched at which
> locations. (I can, as suggested, use .lastindex to find *one* of them,
> but not all, as I need.)

Since you want both the matched strings and their locations in file, you
pretty much have to this manually, one by one.

-- 
William Park, Open Geometry Consulting, <opengeometry at yahoo.ca>
Linux solution/training/migration, Thin-client


From donn at drizzle.com  Sat Apr 24 13:29:53 2004
From: donn at drizzle.com (Donn Cave)
Date: Sat, 24 Apr 2004 17:29:53 -0000
Subject: Why we will use obj$func() often
References: <d2Uhc.22272$dZ1.1600@fed1read04> <84Uhc.22278$dZ1.5087@fed1read04>
	<mailman.927.1082665370.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<8AWhc.23114$dZ1.11070@fed1read04> <40883BFE.B381518A@alcyone.com>
	<27_hc.23801$dZ1.2716@fed1read04> <40887145.789A2FE8@alcyone.com>
	<7cki80hj976bia36lhf9er97v073o1pqvm@4ax.com>
	<w8dic.28710$dZ1.11206@fed1read04> <ulXiAls/KH1K089yn@the-wire.com>
	<lkfic.29767$dZ1.17301@fed1read04>
	<donn-66132E.15345723042004@nntp3.u.washington.edu>
	<PLhic.30493$dZ1.22063@fed1read04> <1082783076.585831@yasure>
	<Tunic.32387$dZ1.12932@fed1read04>
Message-ID: <1082827791.810981@yasure>

Quoth "Mark Hahn" <mark at prothon.org>:
| "Donn Cave" <donn at drizzle.com> wrote ...
...
|> I might seriously
|> consider what I believe we call lexical scoping, and a declaration -
|> not assigning a type, but an initial value, like "let x = 0".
|> Namespaces like Python's would be for objects - modules, classes,
|> class instances, whatever - not functions - and would be purely
|> explicit, not implicit like a scope (I think that would most
|> conspicuously require some alternative for "def" statements,
|> for example.)
|
| I'm not following you exactly, but I think what you are asking for is the
| declaration of variables with "let x = 0", or what some languages use is
| just "var x" that specify that the variable belongs in the scope of that
| declaration.  This resolves the ambiguity of local versus global variables
| and even gives a nice solution for closures.

The declaration is probably the most trivial part of it.  The notation
could be omitted - may as well, since "x = 0" would be implicitly the
the same as "let x = 0" anyway.  The point is that scope is purely
lexical, defined by source structure - top to bottom, left to right,
outside to inside.

My hunch is that this would be less confusing, especially multiple
nested scopes are no problem with lexical scoping.  It should also
make for more efficient execution, because compiler/interpreter is
looking at the complete story on what's what.  For example, you can
have true global constants, a common programming notion that Python
doesn't support.

It would be fatal for closures of the counter type, because that
takes a runtime binding somewhere.  This would be legal code -

   mkCounter = function ():
       i = 0
       countup = function ():
           i = i + 1
           print i
       return countup

... but the countup function would always print "1".  You'd need
an explicit function namespace, like -

   mkCounter = function ():
       countup = function ():
           .i = .i + 1
           print .i
       countup.i = 0
       return countup

... but maybe this is where we realize that this functionality
belongs to objects.

	Donn Cave, donn at drizzle.com


From fumanchu at amor.org  Sat Apr 17 00:28:18 2004
From: fumanchu at amor.org (Robert Brewer)
Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2004 21:28:18 -0700
Subject: Python OS
Message-ID: <DE1CF2B4FEC4A342BF62B6B2B334601E56200F@opus.amorhq.net>

Paul Watson wrote:
> What if we had a machine whose native instruction set was 
> Parrot bytecode?

That's been suggested before:

http://z.iwethey.org/forums/render/content/show?contentid=120862


FuManChu

(sorry for the double-post--$%^&* Outlook)



From Mike at DeleteThis.Geary.com  Fri Apr 16 02:45:42 2004
From: Mike at DeleteThis.Geary.com (Michael Geary)
Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2004 23:45:42 -0700
Subject: CamelCase versus wide_names (Prothon)
References: <UHxfc.9323$dZ1.3740@fed1read04>
	<7xekqo36ia.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <107v08mopdgr9e9@corp.supernews.com>

> Mark Hahn wrote:
> > 1) CamelCase is more elegant, modern, more readable, and more efficient
in
> > character usage.

Paul Rubin wrote:
> IfCamelCaseWereReallyMoreReadable, We'dWriteOrdinaryEnglishLikeUsingIt.
> SoThatClaimIsRidiculousAndNeedsToBeThrownOutTheWindowPostHaste.

> > 2) Wide_names is cleaner, more readable, compatible with C, which is the
> > standard module language for Python and Prothon.  Wide_names is also the
> > Python standard.

> Sounds_ok_with_me.
I_find_it_a_heck_of_a_lot_more_readable_than_camel_case.
> I_vote_for_wide_names.

If we were writing English sentences and for some reason were forced to
write an entire sentence as a single word in one of these two styles, then I
would be persuaded by your examples.

But, we're not writing English, and we're not writing an entire sentence as
a single word.

We are writing program code where we compose a single name out of multiple
words. That name is combined with several other names in a statement or
expression with much more punctuation than you'd use in English prose.

To me, names_with_underscores are easy to read in isolation. But when they
are combined with multiple other names_with_underscores and a lot of
punctuation, the result for me is visually confusing. I have a hard time
seeing where one name ends and another one begins. Underscore is a
punctuation mark too.

But since you're using English to make the point, let's run with it a bit.
However, instead of contrived examples that no one would ever write, we'll
use a real English paragraph with real names:

I edit my Python code with SlickEdit and ActiveState Komodo. I use an IBM
ThinkPad, largely because I like its TrackPoint pointing device. I enjoy
taking pictures with my Canon PowerShot camera, and I use a PreSonus
BlueTube preamp when I play harmonica. Today I drove by OfficeMax, and I saw
ads for the DoubleTree hotel and Lufthansa's PrivateBeds and FlyNet.

What if I wrote this instead:

I edit my Python code with Slick_edit and Active_state Komodo. I use an IBM
Think_pad, largely because I like its Track_point pointing device. I enjoy
taking pictures with my Canon Power_shot camera, and I use a Pre_sonus
Blue_tube preamp when I play harmonica. Today I drove by Office_max, and I
saw ads for the Double_tree hotel and Lufthansa's Private_beds and Fly_net.

Is that easier to read?

-Mike




From __peter__ at web.de  Sat Apr 10 11:24:41 2004
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Sat, 10 Apr 2004 17:24:41 +0200
Subject: Static Data?
References: <2FTdc.56817$Id.5813@news-binary.blueyonder.co.uk>
Message-ID: <c593jp$miu$02$1@news.t-online.com>

Stevie_mac wrote:

> I need to have a static class data member like c (see semi pseudo-like
> code below). How can I achieve this?

class Object:
    # Python already has a builtin object class;
    # use uppercase Object to avoid nameclash
    _ID = 1
    def __init__(self):
        self.ID = Object._ID
        Object._ID += 1

# An alternative implementation
# import itertools
# class Object:
#     IDGen = itertools.count(1)
#     def __init__(self):
#         self.ID = self.IDGen.next() # successive calls yield 1, 2, 3, ...

class Group(dict):
    # you could make this more dict-like
    def addObject(self, obj):
        self[obj.ID] = obj
    def getObject(self, iWhich):
        return self[iWhich]

g = Group()

o1 = Object()
o2 = Object()
o3 = Object()

g.addObject(o2)
g.addObject(o3)
g.addObject(o1)

print g.getObject(1).ID
print g.getObject(2).ID
print g.getObject(3).ID

The above works, but I've got a hunch that you are on the wrong track here.
Most likely you should pass o1, o2, ... around instead of the IDs.

Peter



From richie at entrian.com  Thu Apr  1 02:10:29 2004
From: richie at entrian.com (Richie Hindle)
Date: Thu, 01 Apr 2004 08:10:29 +0100
Subject: ANNOUNCE: 'goto' for Python
Message-ID: <n98m60drsk5ep9ugq6rh6uvg4jdnjtkihh@4ax.com>


Entrian Solutions is pleased to announce version 1.0 of the 'goto' module.

This adds the 'goto' and 'comefrom' keywords to Python 2.3, adding
flexibility to Python's control flow mechanisms and allowing Python
programmers to use many common control flow idioms that were previously
denied to them.

'goto' example: breaking out from a deeply nested loop:

    from goto import goto, label
    for i in range(1, 10):
        for j in range(1, 20):
            for k in range(1, 30):
                print i, j, k
                if k == 3:
                    goto .end
    label .end
    print "Finished\n"


'comefrom' example: letting cleanup code take control after an error.

    from goto import comefrom, label
    def bigFunction():
        setUp()
        if not doFirstTask():
            label .failed
        if not doSecondTask():
            label .failed
        if not doThirdTask():
            label .failed
    
        comefrom .failed
        cleanUp()

Computed 'goto's are also supported - see the documentation for details.
Computed 'comefrom's are planned for a future release.

Documentation and further examples:
    http://entrian.com/goto/index.html

Downloads:
    http://entrian.com/goto/download.html

The 'goto' module is released under the Python Software Foundation
license, and requires Python 2.3 or later.

Please note that this version does not work at the interactive Python
prompt - code importing 'goto' must be in a .py file.  This restriction
will hopefully be lifted in a future release.

-- 
Richie Hindle
richie at entrian.com




From fumanchu at amor.org  Fri Apr 16 19:31:37 2004
From: fumanchu at amor.org (Robert Brewer)
Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2004 16:31:37 -0700
Subject: datetimes, tzinfo and gmtime epoch
Message-ID: <DE1CF2B4FEC4A342BF62B6B2B334601E56200C@opus.amorhq.net>

John Hunter wrote:
>     Robert> John Hunter wrote:
>     >> I have a python2.3 datetime instance and a tzinfo instance (eg
>     >> Eastern from the python library reference).
>     >> 
>     >> What is the best way to convert that datetime instance to
>     >> seconds since the epoch, gmtime?
> 
>     Robert> You might try time.mktime(t), where t is a 9-tuple as
>     Robert> desribed at:
> 
> 
> Yes, but you still have to account for the offset to gmtime, which is
> dependent on daylight savings time.

Sometimes I settle for giving general directions, not free rides. :D


FuManChu



From achim.marcel at uqam.ca  Thu Apr  8 13:07:51 2004
From: achim.marcel at uqam.ca (Marcel Achim)
Date: Thu, 08 Apr 2004 17:07:51 GMT
Subject: Tcl/Tk extension access from python under windows
Message-ID: <HFfdc.657$AT3.293@charlie.risq.qc.ca>

Hi,

I found a tcl extension that does exactly what I need to access a DLL
and it would require a large amount of SWIG glue to generate an
equivalent python extension. I want to access it via
root.tk.call("eval", "package require extension"). I placed the
extension dll (as well as the target DLL) in my Python DLLs path at the
same place where the tcl/tk DLLs are. The eval fails because it doesn't
find the extension. Is there a special initialisation/registration/setup
change to be made to python ?

thanks
Marcel Achim




From littlejohn.75 at news.noos.fr  Thu Apr  8 05:01:44 2004
From: littlejohn.75 at news.noos.fr (F. Petitjean)
Date: 08 Apr 2004 09:01:44 GMT
Subject: regex help for a newbie
References: <c4rkh6$2kr4f5$2@ID-165840.news.uni-berlin.de>
	<yibn05p4oi3.fsf@coxeter.math.toronto.edu>
	<c4v3jk$2nn12a$1@ID-165840.news.uni-berlin.de>
	<yibd66k94x7.fsf@coxeter.math.toronto.edu>
	<c4vbh0$2nsefl$1@ID-165840.news.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <407514f8$0$22878$626a14ce@news.free.fr>

On 6 Apr 2004 22:38:24 GMT, Marco Herrn <herrn at gmx.net> wrote:
> On 2004-04-06, marco <marco at reimeika.ca> wrote:
>> Marco Herrn <herrn at gmx.net> writes:
>>
>>> On 2004-04-06, marco <marco at reimeika.ca> wrote:
>>> > Marco Herrn <herrn at gmx.net> writes:
>>> >> the parts in a recursive function. So the thing I want to achieve here
>>> >> is to extract %(BBB%(CCC)BBB) and %(DDD).
>>> >
>>
>> Does the "aaa"-type string really show up three times? Or is it actually:
>>
>> "maybeeggs%(BBB%(CCC)BBB)maybeham%(DDD)maybespam"
> 
> Yes, it is this. I just used the same strings to indicate the nesting
> levels. All strings in this expression are arbitrary strings.
> 
>> (but I doubt it -- I guess you'll need a real parser :)
> 
> Yes, I already realized that :-)
> 
> Marco
> 
A solution without any re nor parser :
the basic idea  is nesting, wrapping of parsplit as a true recursive
function is left as an exercice to the reader.

#! /usr/bin/env python
# -*- coding: iso-8859-1 -*-
#
#  parparse.py
#
class NestingParenError(Exception):
    """Parens %( ) do not match"""

def parsplit(s, begin='%(', end=')'):
    """returns before, inside, after  or s, None, None
    raises NestingParenError if begin, end pairs are not nested"""
    pbegin = s.find(begin)
    if pbegin == -1:
        return s, None, None
    before = s[:pbegin]
    pend = s.rfind(end)
    if pend == -1:
        raise NestingParenError("in '%s' '%s' found without matching '%s'" %\
            (s, begin, end))
    inside = s[pbegin+len(begin):pend]
    return before, inside, s[pend+len(end):]

def usage(s):
    """Typical use of parsplit"""
    before, inside, after = parsplit(s)
    if inside is None:
        print "'%s' has no %%( ) part" % (s,)
        return
    # process :
    print "before %s\ninside %s\nafter %s" % (before, inside, after)
    while inside:
        before, inside, after = parsplit(inside)
        # process :
        print "before %s\ninside %s\nafter %s" % (before, inside, after)

if __name__ == '__main__':
    """basic tests"""
    s1 = """aaaa a%(bbb bbb%(iiii) ccc)dddd"""
    print "nested case %s" % (s1,)
    usage(s1)
    print
    print
    usage("""0123before%()""")
    print
    usage("""%(inside)""")
    print
    usage("""%()after""")
    print
    s2 = """without closing %( paren"""
    s3 = """without opening ) paren"""
    try:
        usage(s2)
    except NestingParenError, e:
        print e
    print
    usage(s3)

Hope that helps
Regards


From opengeometry at yahoo.ca  Tue Apr 20 01:55:18 2004
From: opengeometry at yahoo.ca (William Park)
Date: 20 Apr 2004 05:55:18 GMT
Subject: CamelCase versus wide_names (Prothon)
References: <UHxfc.9323$dZ1.3740@fed1read04>
	<6ee58e07.0404192141.2229efd6@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <c62e05$6oraj$1@ID-99293.news.uni-berlin.de>

Lothar Scholz <llothar at web.de> wrote:
> After writing a few hundert thousands lines of code in Eiffel and a
> few ten thousands lines in Java i must say that lowercase wide_names
> are much much better to read. Someone else already mentioned this
> problem:
> 
>    smtp_message <-> SMTPMessage <-> SmtpMessage

Agreed.  2nd example illustrates the main problem, where the part of
word is all uppercase.  Likewise, 'smtpMESSAGE' is equally bad.

-- 
William Park, Open Geometry Consulting, <opengeometry at yahoo.ca>
Linux solution/training/migration, Thin-client


From andrew.henshaw at gtri.gatech.edu  Fri Apr 16 14:07:35 2004
From: andrew.henshaw at gtri.gatech.edu (Andrew Henshaw)
Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2004 14:07:35 -0400
Subject: CamelCase versus wide_names (Prothon)
References: <UHxfc.9323$dZ1.3740@fed1read04>
	<mailman.666.1082064823.20120.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1080877ckml9o70@corp.supernews.com>

Fran?ois Pinard wrote:
...snip...
> Given full power and choice, what I would prefer is that identifiers be
> allowed to contain spaces -- would they have to be unbreakable spaces.
> That would be the most legible avenue, especially given that my editors
> and enscripters would then bold or colour Python/Prothon keywords, making
> it clear the extent of each identifier.  Take this very message, save
> it in two files, then edit the first copy to replace all spaces within
> a sentence with underlines, and edit the second copy to replace all
> spaces within a sentence with the empty string, but capitalising the
> next character.  My guess, which some might challenge, is that there
> will almost be a concensus that the first copy is easier to decipher.
> 
> Legibility should be the overwhelming concern.
> 

Your comments bring to mind something that might be nice to see in an
editor:  black text with automatic light gray underscores.  This might
provide a less jarring alternative to the full underscore, but there would
be no confusion as to whether or not the separator was meant to be a space.  

postscript: just tried it in my word processor and it's a pretty good effect


-- 
Andy


From michael at foord.net  Tue Apr  6 03:48:40 2004
From: michael at foord.net (Fuzzyman)
Date: 6 Apr 2004 00:48:40 -0700
Subject: ANNOUNCE : dataenc.py and Pythonutils
Message-ID: <8089854e.0404052348.15e3a04e@posting.google.com>

http://www.voidspace.org.uk/atlantibots/pythonutils.html

Various Python Resources

Home of :

Nanagram - anagram finder. Tkinter GUI version and a CGI for including
in your own websites.
Voidspace Python Guestbook

Modules :
*NEW* dataenc.py   - a definable binary to ascii encoding with
timestamping and binary interleaving.
ConfigObj 2     - a simple config file parser that behaves like a
dictionary.
listparser      - parsing strings into lists, elements of lists can
themselves be lists
dateutils       - functions for handling dates, leap years, future
dates etc
csv_s           - simple and straightforward CSV file reading and
writing


Dataenc :
Version 1.1.0

This is a set of functions that provide a binary to ASCII encoding
(based on a user definable TABLE) and binary interleaving which can be
used for combining files or time/datestamping data.

The purpose of this is that an encrypted password can be timestamped
and then included as ASCII in a hidden form field - in the HTML output
of a CGI. This gives a convenient way of providing a 'user login' with
a CGI - but the password (or it's SHA hash) that is hidden in the HTML
is 'time stamped' so that even if is extracted from the HTML it can't
be used once it has expired. Conceivably, the binary interweave
functions could be used for combining, 'watermarking' or timestamping
any data. The binary to ascii function is no 'better' than the
binascii module - but the mapping is user definable. It can be used
for storing *any* binary data as ascii - e.g. an SHA hash in a
ConfigObj !


Dateutils :
Version 1.0.2 

This is a set of functions for dealing with dates - written for a
little tool called 'Victory Days'. They are particularly useful for
dealing with appointments - e.g. the second Tuesday in March etc...

The functions will tell you what day of the week a date is, work out
the 'Julian day number' of a date is, correctly add numbers of days
(weeks, months etc) to a date and tell you the number of days between
a date, format a datestring etc. Full correction for leap years and
much more.


ConfigObj :
Version 2.0.0 

ConfigObj is a lightweight and easy to use config file parser. It
allows you and your users to write simple text config files - and for
you to easily load, parse, change and save them. In practise, you hand
ConfigObj a filename and it parses the values from keywords in the
file. For adding, retreiving or changing values/keywords it then
behaves like a normal python dictionary. You can then write the edited
data back to file if you need to with a simple configobj.write()
command. You can give it a list of keywords to parse - or simply have
it find all the keywords in the file. Comments inline with keywords
are preserved.


Listparse :

Not only this, but each value can either be a single value *or* a list
of values. This now includes lists of lists !! In other words each
element of a list, can itself be a list. This is implemented using
listparser - a simple module with functions for reading lists from a
string and also turning lists back into strings. A useful way of
storing data in a readable format. This module is available seperately
if you want but included in the configobj2 zip.


csv_s :

Functions for reading, writing and comparing CSV files. Very simple to
use. Useful for places where you haven't got Python 2.3 installed or
don't need the complexity of the CSV module.


A few other 'simple' goodies that some may find useful............

*Also* :

YAPLP - Yet Another Python Links Page
http://www.voidspace.org.uk/coollinks/python_links.shtml


Regards,


Fuzzy


From skip at pobox.com  Tue Apr 20 18:05:07 2004
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 17:05:07 -0500
Subject: emacs for OS X
In-Reply-To: <1gckdxe.x3vsll1r5u4tfN%fabio.trezziCANCELLAMI@email.it>
References: <See_my-BB1217.02175320042004@news.verizon.net>
	<1gcjrc7.1s60i39g5q0kiN%fabio.trezziCANCELLAMI@email.it>
	<mailman.811.1082487278.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<1gckdxe.x3vsll1r5u4tfN%fabio.trezziCANCELLAMI@email.it>
Message-ID: <16517.40595.544466.38684@montanaro.dyndns.org>


    >> The current release of python-mode.el is no longer maintained on this
    >> website. Check the python-mode project on Sourceforge instead.

    Wezzy> Today when i post my message i've opened
    Wezzy> http://www.python.org/emacs/python-mode/ and followed the link to
    Wezzy> sf.net but the project hasn't released any file yet, so i've
    Wezzy> posted the url to the www.python.org version that is still
    Wezzy> online.

You've shamed me into releasing the single file which is part of the
project.  The new release is "barking-up-the-wrong-tree".  If we get more
formal with the releases perhaps I'll adopt a numeric release schedule.

    Wezzy> (Anyway the old one is still online)

I'll see about deleting it.

Skip



From peter at engcorp.com  Mon Apr 12 14:11:23 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2004 14:11:23 -0400
Subject: String + number split
In-Reply-To: <2SAec.70005$Id.6002@news-binary.blueyonder.co.uk>
References: <2SAec.70005$Id.6002@news-binary.blueyonder.co.uk>
Message-ID: <mfydnfKTtqtWRufdRVn-uQ@powergate.ca>

Stevie_mac wrote:
> Hello again, I can do this, but I'm sure there is a much more elegant way...
> 
> A string, with a number on the end, strip off the number & discard any underscores
> 
> eg...
> 
> font12        becomes         ('font',12)
> arial_14      becomes        ('arial',14)

It's impossible to say if it's more elegant, since you didn't
post your attempt.  (Homework?  I'll assume not.)

 >>> import re
 >>> def fsplit(fs):
...   return tuple(re.split('(\d+)', fs.replace('_', ''))[:2])
...
 >>> fsplit('font12')
('font', '12')
 >>> fsplit('arial_14')
('arial', '14')

I wouldn't actually code it this way myself, but it meets
your requirements as stated.

-Peter


From max at alcyone.com  Fri Apr 23 23:06:13 2004
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2004 20:06:13 -0700
Subject: deleting items within a for loop - mutable indices
References: <4089cb21$1_2@mk-nntp-2.news.uk.tiscali.com>
Message-ID: <4089D9A5.1A0C9C02@alcyone.com>

SnuSnu wrote:

> Okay - here's a (probably) really easy question:
> 
> I can't do the following, so what's the best way to handle this
> case of wanting to delete within a loop?
> 
> x = [0,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8]
> deletion_list = [2,7,8]
> 
> for i in deletion_list:
>   del x[i]
> 
> This obviously doesn't work because the list keeps changing
> each time I delete something, so the indices are no longer valid
> after the first delete (so I get an IndexError on teh last delete).

The solution is usually to either iterate over an explicit copy of the
list, or use functional means to build the final list up from the
original list without mutating it at all.

In this case it's probably best to just iterate backwards over the
indices, since you know what you're getting and can control the order in
which you delete the items.

> deletion_list.sort()
> deletion_list.reverse()
> # BTW: It's a shame I can't do deletion_list.sort().reverse()

This is a deliberate design decision.  These methods are made to return
None so you're explicitly aware that they mutate the object, rather than
return a duplicate.  You can always define your own functional version:

	def mySort(seq):
	    result = seq[:]
	    result.sort()
	    return result

-- 
 __ Erik Max Francis && max at alcyone.com && http://www.alcyone.com/max/
/  \ San Jose, CA, USA && 37 20 N 121 53 W && AIM erikmaxfrancis
\__/ Awards are merely the badges of mediocrity.
    -- Charles Ives


From roy at panix.com  Tue Apr 27 19:43:45 2004
From: roy at panix.com (Roy Smith)
Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2004 19:43:45 -0400
Subject: Is Perl *that* good?
References: <c6ich0$c5mee$1@ID-205437.news.uni-berlin.de>
	<iL3jc.232$Yc.2330@news4.e.nsc.no>
	<108q51j4dscn7dc@corp.supernews.com>
	<knbjc.267$id.3998@news2.e.nsc.no>
	<pan.2004.04.26.20.50.19.843510@hotmail.com>
	<87fzaqmm8t.fsf@strauser.com>
	<38ec68a6.0404262308.50029919@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.49.1083084698.25742.python-list@python.org>
	<pan.2004.04.27.18.15.56.169064@hotmail.com>
	<Z_Bjc.1397$ZD3.139@fe1.columbus.rr.com>
Message-ID: <roy-C1F2BF.19434527042004@reader2.panix.com>

Carl Banks <imbosol at aerojockey.invalid> wrote:
> Hmm.  The reason this hasn't been done is that it makes the match
> method non-reentrant.  For example, suppose you call some functions in
> between the matching and use of the matched object, like this:
> 
>     if myregex.match(line):
>         xyz = (subprocess(line[myregex.lastm.end():]) 
>                + myregex.lastm.group(1))
> 
> And suppose subprocess goes on to use the same regexp.  By the time
> subprocess returns, myregex.lastm could have been overwritten.  This
> is not a far-fetched example at all; one could easily encounter this
> problem when writing, say, a recursive descent parser.

I don't see that this is any worse than any other stateful object.  If 
you change the state of the object, you can't expect to get the same 
data from it as you did before.


From antiego at nospam.rocketmail.com  Thu Apr  1 09:56:37 2004
From: antiego at nospam.rocketmail.com (Greg)
Date: Thu, 01 Apr 2004 09:56:37 -0500
Subject: Microsoft making Python.NET
Message-ID: <mv6o6092r2k569f48ri26ef9j1h7fhjiak@4ax.com>

The following article from microsoft describes a workaroind for a bug
in hte beta version of VISUAL PYTHON DOT NET

http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/default.asp?url=/library/en-us/dnaskdr/html/askgui04032001.asp

When did microsoft put python into the visual studio beta? How did
this not make big news in developmnt circles?

A.E.



Here is the body of the article:

FIX: Memory Leak after pickling in Visual Python .NET Beta 1

View products that this article applies to.
This article was previously published under Q114345321
IMPORTANT: This article contains information about modifying the
registry. Before you modify the registry, make sure to back it up and
make sure that you understand how to restore the registry if a problem
occurs. For information about how to back up, restore, and edit the
registry, click the following article number to view the article in
the Microsoft Knowledge Base: 

114345321/8 Description of the Microsoft Windows Registry 

SYMPTOMS
When pickling an object containing a cyclic graph, the Visual Python
.NET Beta 1 can create references that will not be garbage collected. 

CAUSE
Visual Python .NET Beta 1 does not impose a recursion limit by
default. In this mode, an objects references are evaluated lazily
durring pickling. If the garbage collector runs durring this process,
some objects can be incorrectly referenced.
The failure is due to registry key data that was installed by Visual
Python .NET Beta 1. 

RESOLUTION
WARNING: If you use Registry Editor incorrectly, you may cause serious
problems that may require you to reinstall your operating system.
Microsoft cannot guarantee that you can solve problems that result
from using Registry Editor incorrectly. Use Registry Editor at your
own risk.

Open Regedit.exe and browse to
HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Software\Microsoft\VisualStudio\8.0\P++\RecursionLimit.
To be safe, back up this registry key: From the File menu, click
Export and save the key to an .reg file.
Set the RecusionLimit key from 0 to 1000.

STATUS
Microsoft has confirmed that this is a bug in the Microsoft products
that are listed at the beginning of this article. This bug will be
corrected in Visual Python .NET (2004). 

The information in this article applies to:
Microsoft Visual Studio .NET 8.0, Beta 1




From richie at entrian.com  Fri Apr  2 09:52:56 2004
From: richie at entrian.com (Richie Hindle)
Date: Fri, 02 Apr 2004 15:52:56 +0100
Subject: Making the Zen of Python more useful
In-Reply-To: <106qp0uivlefo40@corp.supernews.com>
References: <106qp0uivlefo40@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <8tuq60dlg9v5lkt3pu5q70a13nr9738gj0@4ax.com>


[Andrew]
> Any thoughts [on how to get the output of "import this" programmatically]?

Fresh from the "Well it works but you'd never use it" factory:

import os, tokenize, token
libDir = os.path.split(tokenize.__file__)[0]
thisPathname = os.path.join(libDir, 'this.py')
for tokenType, tokenString, (startRow, startCol), (endRow, endCol), line \
    in tokenize.generate_tokens(open(thisPathname, 'r').readline):
    if tokenType == token.STRING:  # It had better be the first string!
        print tokenString.decode('rot13')
        break
else:
    print "Someone edited this.py!"

-- 
Richie Hindle
richie at entrian.com




From cmg at dok.org  Mon Apr 12 22:52:02 2004
From: cmg at dok.org (Chris Green)
Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2004 22:52:02 -0400
Subject: pdb + unittest
Message-ID: <m23c784mjx.fsf@catbert.dok.org>

After forcing myself to start unittest each module I write from the
get go versus writing some simple apps to excercise some subset of
functionality, I realized it's pretty hard to use pdb + unittest.

The standard place is a test case is failing, aborting with an assert
and I want to debug the statement prior to find out what went wrong.

def test_method(self):
    res = self.obj.do_something()
    self.assertEqual(res, 42)
    res = foo(res)


Often I want to debug at the first do something so I replace it with:

 import pdb
 res = pdb.runcall(self.obj.do_something)

This work great but I don't want pdb to exit from interactive control
until perhaps after the foo(res) call.

Is there a simple way I could get pdb to shove itself higher up in the
flow control?  How about a mildly complex one? :)

Thanks,
Chris
-- 
Chris Green <cmg at dok.org>
A watched process never cores.


From simoninusa2001 at yahoo.co.uk  Sun Apr  4 22:58:52 2004
From: simoninusa2001 at yahoo.co.uk (simo)
Date: 4 Apr 2004 19:58:52 -0700
Subject: where download mcmillan installer
References: <c4pt1j$hbk$1@lacerta.tiscalinet.it>
	<qeKdnZrDUPviD-3dRVn-gw@powergate.ca>
Message-ID: <30260531.0404041858.91c5229@posting.google.com>

I've got a copy of 5 beta 5 too (same as the SpamBayes one I think):

  http://www.the-jedi.co.uk/comps/downloads/installer_5b5_5.zip

  http://www.the-jedi.co.uk/comps/downloads/installer_5b5_5.tar.gz

They both have the same files inside the archives.

I don't know what's happened with Installer, there was some talk of
Gordon having hosting problems, but that was weeks ago. Dunno why
Sourceforge couldn't be used instead....


From alloydflanagan at comcast.net  Wed Apr 21 17:50:42 2004
From: alloydflanagan at comcast.net (A. Lloyd Flanagan)
Date: 21 Apr 2004 14:50:42 -0700
Subject: inheritance and private attributes
References: <mailman.874.1082573632.20120.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <e838aa6e.0404211350.67c14b59@posting.google.com>

KN <vald at dead.art.pl> wrote in message news:<mailman.874.1082573632.20120.python-list at python.org>...
> I've run into such problem:
> 
> I have something like this:
> 
> class A(object):
> 	def __init__(self):
> 		self.__value = None
> 
> class B(A):
> 	def test(self):
> 		if self.__value:
> 			print "Ok."
> 		else:
> 			print "Empty."
> 
> >>> b = B()
> >>> b.test()
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
>   File "<stdin>", line 3, in test
> AttributeError: 'B' object has no attribute '_B__value'
> 
> Why I have no access to private attribute from a class that
> inherits other class? I just want to have access to the same
> private variables but also to extend its functionality by
> adding a method that operates on those private attributes and
> I'm unable to do so. 
> 
> Is this normal behaviour? What should I do if I want to 
> override method and use private attribute, or just add
> some other method which changes this attribute?
> 
> /K

This is normal behavior (by design).  In general a derived class has
no special access to the attributes defined in its parent; there is no
equivalent of C++'s "protected" variables.

I see two solutions:

1) Have the child use an accessor function (if class A above had a
getValue() method, you could call it with A.getValue(self)).

2) Cheat.  In class B, access self._A__value.  This duplicates the
"mangling" that python does to hide variables with double underscore
in front.

I'd recommend 1), unless you have some urgent performance problem.  2)
is probably a bit faster.

Fast example of 2):
>>> class a:
...   def __init__(self):
...     a.val = 3
...   def getValue(self):
...     return a.__val
...   def __init__(self):
...     a.__val = 3
>>> x = a()
>>> a.getValue()
3
>>> class b(a):
...   def __init__(self):
...     a.__init__(self)
...   def getValue(self):
...     return a._a__val + 2
...
>>> y = b()
>>> y.getValue()
5


From rogerb at rogerbinns.com  Sat Apr  3 15:40:04 2004
From: rogerb at rogerbinns.com (Roger Binns)
Date: Sat, 3 Apr 2004 12:40:04 -0800
Subject: [maybe OT] Making posters
References: <95aa1afa.0404030143.58c32975@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <02k3k1-1nc.ln1@home.rogerbinns.com>

Michele Simionato wrote:
> Perhaps this is a bit off topic, but I haven't had look browsing on the
> net, so I thought I will try my chance here. I am looking for a
> tool taking a postscript file and enlarging it to make a poster.

Well, it was on topic enough for PyCon :-)

http://www.python.org/pycon/dc2004/papers/52/main.html

Roger




From viruswall at heinz.vodafone-is.de  Wed Apr 14 04:24:31 2004
From: viruswall at heinz.vodafone-is.de (viruswall at heinz.vodafone-is.de)
Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2004 10:24:31 +0200 (MEST)
Subject: Virus Alert
Message-ID: <200404140824.i3E8OLm08524@heinz.vodafone-is.de>

The mail message (file: file.zip) you sent to <jmatysik at de.stabilus.com> contains a virus. (on heinz.vodafone-is.de)



From igouy at yahoo.com  Thu Apr  8 11:38:57 2004
From: igouy at yahoo.com (Isaac Gouy)
Date: 8 Apr 2004 08:38:57 -0700
Subject: why is python better than eg. smalltalk??
References: <20031028061245.12451.00000133@mb-m01.aol.com>
	<mailman.237.1067515722.702.python-list@python.org>
	<opr53783cbmyya52@news.kadnet.dom>
	<c538bu$qok$1@news1.wdf.sap-ag.de>
Message-ID: <ce7ef1c8.0404080738.5552f28b@posting.google.com>

"Daniel Dittmar" <daniel.dittmar at sap.com> wrote in message news:<c538bu$qok$1 at news1.wdf.sap-ag.de>...

> When I started using Python, there were two reasons:
> - no good free eimplementation of Smalltalk
> - Smalltalk doesn't scale well to small tasks
> 
> Point 1 has probably changed with Squeak. But I'd really have to use it for
> a while to be confident enough to inflict it upon others.

Yes Smalltalk has been around since the days when software was sold as
a product, so the main Smalltalk implementations are commercial - IBM,
VisualWorks (VisualWorks is available gratis for non-commercial use),
Dolphin.

GNU Smalltalk is a fine open-source implementation for POSIX.
Pocket Smalltalk is a fine open-source implementation for Palm.


> Don't know about point 2: When I had a new version of some small 'script', I
> had only the alternatives
> * to distribute full images

Most Smalltalks provide for distribution of a stripped compressed
image.
Several Smalltalks provide for distribution of an EXE on MSWin.

> * to distribute source which the users had to integrate into their images
> Maybe this has changed as well.

It was never true ;-)
The commonplace approach is to have the Smalltalk runtime check a
known location for source code patches, and then automatically update.


From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Thu Apr  1 08:48:33 2004
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 1 Apr 2004 08:48:33 -0500
Subject: Prothon, metaclasses, Zope [Was: A 'Python like' language]
References: <95aa1afa.0403272243.78d60724@posting.google.com>
	<c4fq68$mk7$1@panix3.panix.com> <S7Lac.87628$cx5.10253@fed1read04>
	<95aa1afa.0404010017.2f1683b8@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <c4h6jh$n9f$1@panix1.panix.com>

In article <95aa1afa.0404010017.2f1683b8 at posting.google.com>,
Michele Simionato <michele.simionato at poste.it> wrote:
>
> [...]

Michele, I just got a mailbox full error when I tried sending you
e-mail.  Please fix.
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

"usenet imitates usenet"  --Darkhawk


From joe at notcharles.ca  Thu Apr 15 15:42:26 2004
From: joe at notcharles.ca (Joe Mason)
Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2004 19:42:26 GMT
Subject: CamelCase versus wide_names (Prothon)
References: <UHxfc.9323$dZ1.3740@fed1read04>
Message-ID: <slrnc7tpc4.9b5.joe@gate.notcharles.ca>

In article <UHxfc.9323$dZ1.3740 at fed1read04>, Mark Hahn wrote:
> Of course in the Python world you alread have wide_names as your standard,
> but could you for the moment pretend you were picking your standard from
> scratch (as we are doing in the Prothon world) and give your vote for which
> you'd prefer?

Wasn't one of the Prothon design goals "when in doubt, follow Python"?

Joe


From moranar at daleclick.com  Fri Apr  2 11:09:19 2004
From: moranar at daleclick.com (Adriano Varoli Piazza)
Date: Fri, 2 Apr 2004 13:09:19 -0300
Subject: Python conference slogan
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.50.0403311355090.27562-100000@shane.zope.com>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.50.0403311355090.27562-100000@shane.zope.com>
Message-ID: <200404021309.19766.moranar@daleclick.com>

El Mi? 31 Mar 2004 15:58, Shane Hathaway escribi?:
> Here's a Python slogan suggestion by Ken Manheimer.
>
> One Nation Under Under Python
>
> I thought it was pretty funny.  I don't know if international folks
> will get it, though. :-)
>
> Shane

Another suggestion: "Python Programming Language: So clean it 
_squeaks_". (squeaks italicized).

Cheers
-- 
Adriano Varoli Piazza
The Inside Out: http://moranar.com.ar
ICQ: 4410132
MSN: adrianomd at hotmail.com
Claves gpg / pgp en hkp://subkeys.pgp.net



From ed-no at spam-eepatents.com  Thu Apr  8 20:37:04 2004
From: ed-no at spam-eepatents.com (Ed Suominen)
Date: Thu, 08 Apr 2004 17:37:04 -0700
Subject: maximum length of a list & tuple
References: <c54lq3$2pe1sf$1@ID-202776.news.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <bvednZaKK7OybejdRVn-iQ@centurytel.net>

I think the limit is 1000 recursion levels, but you shouldn't need to ever
get anywhere near that. Use generators to break up the iteration of your
list comparisons.

-Ed Suominen

Lupe wrote:

> hi,
> 
> I'm finishing a small program which uses recursion for less than 100
> levels.
> 
> Each time the function is called, it compares an element of a list (which
> is a list too) to other elements, which all amounts to millions of
> comparisons.
> 
> The program is working for short lists but not for longer ones.  I think
> there are two possible problems:  either disk space is not enough to save
> lists as the program is executed or there is a finite manageable list
> lenght that is reached by the program.
> 
> hence my question:
> 
> is there a limit? which one? I'm using list.append()
> what about for tuples?
> 
> I'll rewrite that part of the code and will overcome the problem, since I
> only need a few elements of the list generated, but I'm still curious
> about the answers
> 
> Thanks in advanve
> 
> Lupe



From griffph at aol.com  Mon Apr 19 13:45:07 2004
From: griffph at aol.com (Griff)
Date: 19 Apr 2004 10:45:07 -0700
Subject: Problems using modulo
Message-ID: <d698d3e7.0404190945.3b27bc6c@posting.google.com>

Mike,

Thanks for this. I haven't used %r before, in fact it doesn't even
seem to be mentioned in my "Python Essential Reference" book so I
probably wouldn't have come across it for ages.

I've since tried to run a similar piece of code on my 'C' compiler and
pretty quickly discovered/remembered that C doesn't allow you to do
modulo operations on floats full stop ... so I regard whatever Python
gives us as a bonus!

The quickest workaround I've found is to do 
( round(t,5) % round(interval,5)) which seems to give the results I
need.

cheers

- Griff


From des at DouganConsulting.com  Mon Apr 12 19:36:40 2004
From: des at DouganConsulting.com (Des Dougan)
Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2004 16:36:40 -0700
Subject: Problems compiling on a Red Hat 7.3 based system
In-Reply-To: <20040412143357.GO6139@unpythonic.net>
References: <1081750846.2069.80.camel@p133.douganconsulting.com>
	<20040412143357.GO6139@unpythonic.net>
Message-ID: <1081812999.2067.93.camel@p133.douganconsulting.com>

On Mon, 2004-04-12 at 07:33, Jeff Epler wrote:
> I have compiled Python 2.3.3 on a RedHat 7.2 machine, though I didn't
> use an RPM.  I'm not sure about the "/lib/cpp fails sanity check"
> message, but maybe the second problem is due to a missing package.
> I have a <linux/errno.h> on my system:
>     $ rpm -qf /usr/include/linux/errno.h
>     kernel-headers-2.4.7-10

The package wasn't actually missing - but I did find two missing
symlinks. Linking them:

ln -s /usr/src/linux-2.4/include/linux /usr/include/linux
ln -s /usr/src/linux-2.4/include/asm /usr/include/asm

fixed the problem.

Many thanks for your help.
-- 

Des Dougan





From mark at prothon.org  Sun Apr 18 00:07:30 2004
From: mark at prothon.org (Mark Hahn)
Date: Sat, 17 Apr 2004 21:07:30 -0700
Subject: CamelCase versus wide_names (Prothon)
References: <UHxfc.9323$dZ1.3740@fed1read04>
	<pan.2004.04.16.01.04.02.124611@hotmail.com>
	<slrnc83ddn.ijn.ramen@lackingtalent.com>
	<ad052e5c.0404171927.457f8cf7@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <s9ngc.12296$dZ1.9063@fed1read04>


"Dan Bishop" <danb_83 at yahoo.com> wrote...

> I'd prefer it if built-in types were uppercase too, so I wouldn't have
> to remember not to use "list" and "file" as variable names.
> Unforunately, that would break a lot of code.

Then switch to Prothon :)  That's the beauty of Prothon, getting to fix the
mistakes.

(I swore I'd never do that, but I just couldn't resist putting in a blatant
ad.  I won't do it again.  Please resume your normally scheduled
programming...).




From newsgroups at jhrothjr.com  Tue Apr 13 13:50:40 2004
From: newsgroups at jhrothjr.com (John Roth)
Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2004 13:50:40 -0400
Subject: Adding properties to objects
References: <3a8e83d2.0404130906.2ea796e9@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <107oa56g7n3un1c@news.supernews.com>


"Matthew Barnes" <matthew at barnes.net> wrote in message
news:3a8e83d2.0404130906.2ea796e9 at posting.google.com...
> Is it possible to add properties to objects dynamically?
>
> I have an instance (x) of some new-style class (Foo), and I would like
> to be able to do something like:
>
> >>> x = Foo()
> >>> x.myproperty = property(getsomething, setsomething, delsomething);
> >>> x.myproperty        # invokes getsomething
> >>> x.myproperty = 1    # invokes setsomething
> >>> del x.myproperty    # invokes delsomething
>
> However, when I evaluate x.myproperty I get back a property object
> (which makes sense).  I get the feeling I'm missing a step to "bind"
> the property object to the class instance.
>
> Is this possible (it's Python... of course it's possible, right?), and
> if so, how?

The property definition only lives in a class; you cannot add
a property to an instance by itself. Well, you can but it won't
be evaluated as a property by the default __getattribute__()
magic method.

To make a property work on an instance basis you'd have
to have a specialty __getattribute__() magic method in the
class. That's left as an exercise for the reader.

John Roth
>
> Matthew Barnes




From raymond.hettinger at verizon.net  Mon Apr 19 08:54:41 2004
From: raymond.hettinger at verizon.net (Raymond Hettinger)
Date: Mon, 19 Apr 2004 08:54:41 -0400
Subject: PEP 329:  Treating Builtins as Constants in the Standard Library
Message-ID: <00cb01c4260d$80b9b120$e841fea9@oemcomputer>

Comments are invited on a new pep:

	http://www.python.org/peps/pep-0329.html



Based on feedback received so far, there were several changes to the
original draft:

* The module is public

* The module name reflects its nature as a bytecode hack

* There is a flag to disable binding

* Added summaries of how it works, when it is called, and the effect on
startup time (near zero).

* Included a reference to Jython FAQs supporting the means for
automatically doing nothing in environments without bytecodes.




From deetsNOSPAM at web.de  Tue Apr 13 08:06:19 2004
From: deetsNOSPAM at web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2004 14:06:19 +0200
Subject: Reommended compiler toolkit
References: <c5g8uu$aak$1@news2.netvision.net.il>
Message-ID: <c5glft$1cugo$1@ID-111250.news.uni-berlin.de>

Miki Tebeka wrote:

> ply (which I like most)
> SPARK
> Yapps
> PyLR
> kwParsing
> Plex
> FlexModule
> 
> Which one do you recommend?

If you like ply - use it. I personally use spark, because its declarative
nature and the early parsing method - but thats just a matter of taste.
-- 
Regards,

Diez B. Roggisch


From junkmail at solumslekt.org  Fri Apr  2 04:24:04 2004
From: junkmail at solumslekt.org (Leif B. Kristensen)
Date: Fri, 02 Apr 2004 11:24:04 +0200
Subject: String concatenation
References: <wS8bc.4382$px6.64058@news2.e.nsc.no>
	<7xisgi24fm.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <Ngabc.4392$px6.64282@news2.e.nsc.no>

Paul Rubin wrote:

> "Leif B. Kristensen" <junkmail at solumslekt.org> writes:
>>     for i in range(5):
>>         tmp = res[i]
>>         if tmp[:1] != '-' and len(tmp) != 0:
>>             place = place + ', ' + (res[i])
>>     return place[2:]
> 
>   tmp = [x for x in res if x and x[0] != '-']
>   return ', '.join(tmp)

Now I got it working, and it's really neat! It's almost incredible that
you can do all this with just two lines of code.

Thank you very much.

regards,
-- 
Leif Biberg Kristensen
http://solumslekt.org/
Validare necesse est


From google at lelandwoodbury.com  Wed Apr 14 19:23:14 2004
From: google at lelandwoodbury.com (Leland Woodbury)
Date: 14 Apr 2004 16:23:14 -0700
Subject: Python 2.2.x core dumping
Message-ID: <c0221b65.0404141523.3b67f24@posting.google.com>

We have a stable Python app that's causing Python 2.2.1 and 2.2.3 (on
Solaris) to core dump with segmention violation on certain new inputs.
 The core files have their stack trashed, so we don't have a lot to go
on other than the obvious indication of a memory problem.  We moved
the app to Linux so we could run valgrind on it, that pretty much just
told us that we're getting a stack overflow, which is a clue, but I'm
not sure what to do with it.

One obvious alternative is to upgrade to Python 2.3.3, but this has
some local consequences that I'd rather avoid until I have some
assurance that it will solve the problem.

Anyone have any advice on next steps to track down the problem?

Thanks for whatever you know.

L


From vardhman at students.iiit.net  Wed Apr  7 11:48:21 2004
From: vardhman at students.iiit.net (Vardhman Jain)
Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2004 21:18:21 +0530 (IST)
Subject: query regarding embeding python in C
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0404071433570.4934-100000@students.iiit.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0404072117550.28375-100000@students.iiit.net>

Hi,
	No replies. I need it urgently please help!!!!


Vardhman

On Wed, 7 Apr 2004, Vardhman Jain wrote:

> Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2004 14:36:32 +0530 (IST)
> From: Vardhman Jain <vardhman at students.iiit.net>
> To: python-list at python.org
> Subject: query regarding embeding python in C
> 
> Hi,
> 	I am trying out the concept of python code being executed from a C 
> program. I got a peice of code from the tutorial but I don't know how to 
> compile/use it
> 
> The code is
> #include <Python.h>
> 
> int
> main(int argc, char *argv[])
> {
>       Py_Initialize();
>         PyRun_SimpleString("from time import time,ctime\n"
>                                      "print 'Today is',ctime(time())\n");
>           Py_Finalize();
>             return 0;
> }
> ~
> ~
> 
> 
> Now If I do "c++ temp.c -I /usr/include/python2.2/" I get the errors
> [vardhman at linuxAddict TA]$ c++ temp.c  -I /usr/include/python2.2/
> /tmp/ccnpr9em.o(.text+0x11): In function `main':
> : undefined reference to `Py_Initialize'
> /tmp/ccnpr9em.o(.text+0x1e): In function `main':
> : undefined reference to `PyRun_SimpleString'
> /tmp/ccnpr9em.o(.text+0x26): In function `main':
> : undefined reference to `Py_Finalize'
> collect2: ld returned 1 exit status
> 
> Can some one tell me how to compile and use this code.
> 
> 
> Vardhman
> 
> 
>  -- 
> Vardhman Jain
> III Year B.Tech. CSE
> IIIT-Hyderabad
> Address:
> Room No 27, NBH, IIIT-Hyderabad,Hyderabad 500019
> 
> presence on net:
>     http://students.iiit.net/~vardhman
> 
> 
> 
> 

-- 
Vardhman Jain
III Year B.Tech. CSE
IIIT-Hyderabad
Address:
Room No 27, NBH, IIIT-Hyderabad,Hyderabad 500019

presence on net:
    http://students.iiit.net/~vardhman





From k.robert at gmx.de  Tue Apr 13 04:29:33 2004
From: k.robert at gmx.de (Robert)
Date: 13 Apr 2004 01:29:33 -0700
Subject: How to read & write standard password encrypted ZIP files?
References: <19804fd8.0404120411.3497925d@posting.google.com>
	<c5ep74$5sl$1@news.service.uci.edu>
Message-ID: <19804fd8.0404130029.7b33d6f3@posting.google.com>

> > Is it possible to write & read standard password encrypted ZIP files
> > easily (using zipfile.ZipFile?)
> 
> It may be supported via some undocumented method.
> 

any more information on that?

> One thing you should be aware of, is that ZIP files have a known 
> cryptographic attack for >= 3 files encrypted with the same password in 
> a zip file.  When there are more than 3 files in a zip file, all 
> encrypted with the same password, only 15 bits of the password is 
> required to decrypt the archive, then (I believe) recover the original 
> password.
> 
> Generally, you would be better off using Python to create the original 
> archive (without encryption), then use some encryption method to secure 
> it.  I hear that mxCrypto is a very spiffy library for Python cryptography.
> 

is there a secure encrypted format, that could be read also by common
tools like WinZIP, WinRAR ?

Robert


From dwelch91 at comcast.net  Sun Apr  4 18:16:38 2004
From: dwelch91 at comcast.net (djw)
Date: Sun, 04 Apr 2004 22:16:38 GMT
Subject: splitting a long token across lines
In-Reply-To: <oO%bc.184199$Cb.1704047@attbi_s51>
References: <ef0c9173.0404032349.742f59e6@posting.google.com>
	<oO%bc.184199$Cb.1704047@attbi_s51>
Message-ID: <aP%bc.184210$Cb.1704363@attbi_s51>

djw wrote:

> Nakamura wrote:
> 
>> Hi all,
>>
>> Say, I have a very long integer constant , how can
>> I split across lines ?
>> I tried something like
>> MODULUS = 7567567567567567567567567567567\
>>           7567507546546986094860986094860\
>>           2345646986598695869548498698989\
>>           ...
>> but it doesn't compile.
>> Is there another way to write a long numeric constant besides writing
>> it as a string and then converting to long? I also wouldn't like to put
>> it all on one very long line.
>>
>> Thanks!
> 
> 
> Well, I _suppose_ you could do this:
> 
> 
> MODULUS = "7567567567567567567567567567567"\
>            7567507546546986094860986094860"\
>            2345646986598695869548498698989"\
>            ...
> 
> MODULUS = int(MODULUS)
> 
> I'm sure I'm going to have to take some flak for this, though. I 
> wouldn't do it. What's wrong with really long lines? Anything you do 
> that I can see is going to obscure your code.
> 
> -D

Oops, I forgot some quotation marks there, but you get the idea.

-D


From af at faino.org  Mon Apr 12 06:09:54 2004
From: af at faino.org (Andrea Fino)
Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2004 12:09:54 +0200
Subject: embedding python
Message-ID: <fg6qk1-jac.ln1@netzen.intra.faino.org>

Hi,

I am studying how to get a python 2.3 interpreter running in a small 
embedded system ie. 8MB flash ans 32MB ram,

after some search with google on thiw newgroup looks like others already 
did this kind of stuff,

Could I have some hints how to proceed, and/or url to read about it?

there is any doc?

Thanks,
Andrea

-- 
Andrea Fino 8-) - "Sistemi su misura di qualita' industriale"
                   "Handcrafted systems with industrial quality"

[Phone: +39 071 2070104]+[Fax: +39 071 2077919]+[iaxtel:17002876594]
[Web: http://www.faino.org]+[Email: af at faino.org]

-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
Version: 3.1
GCS: d- s: a+ C+++ UL++++ P++ L++++ E--- W++ N++ o? K w--- O M V
PS++ PE+ Y+ PGP t+ 5? X-- R* tv- b-- DI+++ D G++ e* h r y+
------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------


From me at privacy.net  Fri Apr  2 21:35:18 2004
From: me at privacy.net (Heather Coppersmith)
Date: 02 Apr 2004 21:35:18 -0500
Subject: Why '==' ?? (now veering OT)
References: <8089854e.0403300510.1971c24@posting.google.com>
	<1080653301.114229@master.nyc.kbcfp.com>
	<dv2s605c7ttq7p5jl2kj185kb64pql34r2@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <m2oeq9bxg9.fsf_-_@unique.phony.fqdn>

On Fri, 02 Apr 2004 17:14:23 -0800,
Tim Roberts <timr at probo.com> wrote:

> LISP uses -- well, no one really knows what the actual syntax is
> for LISP.

The syntax is simple:  (equality-operator comparand-1 comparand-2)

There are, howver, several equality-operators; some are more equal
than others.

HTH,
Heather

-- 
Heather Coppersmith
That's not right; that's not even wrong. -- Wolfgang Pauli


From des at DouganConsulting.com  Mon Apr 12 02:20:48 2004
From: des at DouganConsulting.com (Des Dougan)
Date: Sun, 11 Apr 2004 23:20:48 -0700
Subject: Problems compiling on a Red Hat 7.3 based system
Message-ID: <1081750846.2069.80.camel@p133.douganconsulting.com>

I'm very interested in using Plone; consequently, I downloaded the
source RPM for Python 2.3.3 and ran the rpm --rebuild process. The
compilation failed with:

checking for suffix of executables...
checking for suffix of object files... o
checking whether we are using the GNU C compiler... yes
checking whether gcc accepts -g... yes
checking for gcc option to accept ANSI C... none needed
checking how to run the C preprocessor... /lib/cpp
configure: error: C preprocessor "/lib/cpp" fails sanity check
See `config.log' for more details.
error: Bad exit status from /var/tmp/rpm-tmp.44328 (%build)


RPM build errors:
    Bad exit status from /var/tmp/rpm-tmp.44328 (%build)


I therefore thought I'd try 2.2.3; however, this also failed:

checking for build directories... done
updating cache ./config.cache
creating ./config.status
creating Makefile.pre
creating Modules/Setup.config
creating pyconfig.h
creating Setup
creating Setup.local
creating Makefile
+ make
gcc -c -DNDEBUG -g -O3 -Wall -Wstrict-prototypes -I. -I./Include -DHAVE_CONFIG_H  -o Modules/python.o Modules/python.c
In file included from /usr/include/errno.h:36,
                 from Include/Python.h:48,
                 from Modules/python.c:3:
/usr/include/bits/errno.h:25:26: linux/errno.h: No such file or directory
make: *** [Modules/python.o] Error 1
error: Bad exit status from /var/tmp/rpm-tmp.72880 (%build)


RPM build errors:
    Bad exit status from /var/tmp/rpm-tmp.72880 (%build)

My server runs Mitel SME Server v6.0, which is a Red Hat 7.3 derivative.
The kernel, and kernel sources, are version 2.4.18-5, and the current
python 2 version is python2-2.2.2-11.7.3.

Am I out of luck on this platform, or is there a straightforward way to
have either of these versions compile cleanly (for example, I'm running
glibc 2.2.5, and I'd rather not try to upgrade to 2.3.x)?

Thanks for any help you can provide.

-- 

Des Dougan




From gnosticray at aol.com  Fri Apr 16 03:46:18 2004
From: gnosticray at aol.com (A B Carter)
Date: 16 Apr 2004 00:46:18 -0700
Subject: Difficulty Finding Python Developers
References: <65cbc3dd.0404140641.3501fde8@posting.google.com>
	<65cbc3dd.0404141018.36d9d4ce@posting.google.com>
	<ca6d23f8.0404150426.5daf0b7d@posting.google.com>
	<kKSdnSaWjO_rF-PdRVn-jg@powergate.ca>
Message-ID: <ca6d23f8.0404152346.76970c8b@posting.google.com>

Peter Hansen <peter at engcorp.com> wrote in message news:<kKSdnSaWjO_rF-PdRVn-jg at powergate.ca>...
> A B Carter wrote:
> > 2 - Start setting expectations with management. For example, explain
> > that if there are not a lot of Python programmers it's because it's a
> > new language that
> > it builds on the strengths of langauges such as C++, Java and perl
> > while avoiding their weaknesses. 
> 
> If I were his management, here I might say, "But I thought you
> said Python was older than Java!  If it's so good, why hasn't it
> caught on more than Java?" or "How can it build on the strengths
> of Java when it's older?"
> 
First let me express embarrassment that I had no idea Python was as
old as it was. No doubt I'm biased by the fact that I've only begun to
use Python seriously this year. But damn, I still want to say that it
just seems really new and that yes, it builds on the strengths of
languages such as Java and Perl while avoiding their weaknesses.

So this changes the story you have to tell but certainly not the
reason your telling the story, which is to explain the lack of Python
programmers in a way that reveals a strength rather than a weakness.
You could talk about how Python was originally developed by a single
programmer for an in-house project which should have vanished in
obscurity except that it was so well designed that a kind of grass
roots campaign has made it the second most popular scripting language
in use. Think Guido=Linus and Python=Linux and so long as management
has read "Business Week", they'll be listening.

> > Mention that when you do find a
> > Python programmer he'll probably be better than your average perl or
> > Java programmer. 
> 
> And here I would ask, "Why do you say that?  If there are so
> few of them around, how could anyone know whether they're better
> or worse?  And wouldn't the best programmers be using the most
> popular languages, because they would make more money that way?"
> 
>  > Make the argument that you get what you pay for, and
> > the extra expense of Python is worth it.
> 
OK, this was contentious even for comp.lang.python. To this group I
can sum up the argument by saying the "Learn Python in 21 Days" and
"Python for Dummies" books are much better written than the ones for
Java and other languages. What you can tell management is that Python
is not an over-hyped language like Java (and yes if the manager was
once a Java developer then mention .NET instead) and that Python
programmers are people who really love the field and discovered Python
because of their dissatisfaction with other languages. If management
is willing to do a bit of reading have them read Eric Raymond's essay
on why he switched from Perl to Python.


> "I thought you said Python was free... now you're telling me it's
> going to cost us more than the other languages because it's so hard
> to hire anyone who knows it?"
> 
Sorry, but this I don't buy. If management thought they were getting
something for free then both parties are at fault. The choice of any
language is a matter of balancing trade-offs and management should
have been informed of both the benefits and the risks; and if
management didn't ask about the risks then they just weren't doing
their job.

> > 3 - With 2 out of the way consider rethinking how this three month
> > project should be done. If Python talent is scarce then it might make
> > more sense to develop in-house talent. This may no longer be a three
> > month project but down the road your in a more solid position, which
> > ,if you think about it, is a basic part of what Python is all about.
> 
> Good advice here, IMHO. :-)  This is what we did when first considering
> Python, by the way, and I had a co-op student learn the langauge and
> develop a GPIB interface with a wrapper around a DLL using "calldll".
> It took him about a week to learn Python, about a week to get a basic
> calldll wrapper working, about a week to implement a simple RF test
> for one of the devices the company made (controlling two signal
> generators and a spectrum analyzer) and about a week to figure out how
> to slap a simple GUI on it using Tkinter.
> 
Thank you, but if you accept point 3 then something along the lines of
point 2 is an absolute must because you've gone from asking money to
pay for three months of consulting to hiring a full-time programmer.
Strictly in terms of dollars spent that is, by my accounting, roughly
five times more expensive. You got some explaining to do.

Regards, A B


From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Mon Apr 12 22:18:10 2004
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 12 Apr 2004 22:18:10 -0400
Subject: why is python better than eg. smalltalk?? no one has any
	solid arguments! you should all go to church with all that
	religious talk!
References: <roy-5C8DA0.23052910042004@reader1.panix.com>
	<2004041209261081776382@k2.sage.att.com>
Message-ID: <c5fil2$gfu$1@panix3.panix.com>

In article <2004041209261081776382 at k2.sage.att.com>,
Garry Hodgson  <garry at sage.att.com> wrote:
>aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz) wrote:
>>
>> I found my editor fifteen years ago.  Guess which it is.
>
>i wrote my editor 15 years ago. still use it everyday. it's small,
>fast, minimalist, and does exactly what i want. i occasionally flirt
>with more powerful things, but always end up back with fred.

That's a good answer, but fred won't be available on random computer
systems.
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

Why is this newsgroup different from all other newsgroups?


From __peter__ at web.de  Wed Apr 14 05:05:26 2004
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2004 11:05:26 +0200
Subject: Deleting objects with method reference
References: <eb7d4731.0404140022.4536ed8d@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <c5iusn$v32$03$1@news.t-online.com>

Martin wrote:

> I can't delete this object after I call the Set() function.
> 
> Why is this so special, and are there any way around it besides removing
> the ref ?
> 
> class B:
>    def __del__(self):
>       print "del"
>    def F(self):
>       print "f"
>    def Set(self):
>       self.v = self.F
> 
> 
> o1 = B()
> o1.Set()
> del o1
> 
> 
> o2 = B()
> o2.Set()
> o2.v = None
> del o2
>>>> "del"

self.F consists of a function and an instance reference, so you are
introducing a cycle with o1 referring self.F and self.F referring to o1.
Cycles can only be garbage-collected if the objects involved do not have a
__del__() method. In your example o1 would be collected if you weren't
looking, i. e. B wouldn't attempt to trace the deletion with __del__().
See http://www.python.org/doc/current/lib/module-gc.html, especially the
"garbage" section for details.

You can verify this with a weakref.ref object with an appropriate callback:

import weakref
def ondel(o):
    print "del"

class B:
   def F(self):
      print "f"
   def Set(self):
      self.v = self.F


o1 = B()
o1.Set()
w = weakref.ref(o1, ondel)
del o1

Peter



From peter at engcorp.com  Thu Apr 15 11:32:29 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2004 11:32:29 -0400
Subject: CamelCase versus wide_names (Prothon)
In-Reply-To: <UHxfc.9323$dZ1.3740@fed1read04>
References: <UHxfc.9323$dZ1.3740@fed1read04>
Message-ID: <W_qdndiNLM6QNuPdRVn-vA@powergate.ca>

Mark Hahn wrote:

> We have agreed in Prothon that unlike Python we are going to be 100%
> consistant in our var and method naming.  We will not have run-together
> words like iteritems, we are going to always have seperated words like
> has_key.
> 
> Now we are in the midst of a discussion of camelCase versus wide_names.  So
> far our arguments are:
> 
> 1) CamelCase is more elegant, modern, more readable, and more efficient in
> character usage.
> 
> 2) Wide_names is cleaner, more readable, compatible with C, which is the
> standard module language for Python and Prothon.  Wide_names is also the
> Python standard.
> 
> Of course in the Python world you alread have wide_names as your standard,
> but could you for the moment pretend you were picking your standard from
> scratch (as we are doing in the Prothon world) and give your vote for which
> you'd prefer?

camelCase, provided acronyms (if any) are treated as words and
capitalized appropriate.  For example, updateGui() is preferred
to updateGUI() (or update_GUI or update_gui).  IBM did it right
with the OS/2 API (at some point, finally).

Of course, someone once said that a foolish consistency is the
hobgoblin of little minds...

-Peter


From vincent at visualtrans.de  Wed Apr 28 13:53:57 2004
From: vincent at visualtrans.de (vincent wehren)
Date: Wed, 28 Apr 2004 19:53:57 +0200
Subject: String formatting (%)
In-Reply-To: <e567c03a.0404280035.79d0d973@posting.google.com>
References: <e567c03a.0404280035.79d0d973@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <c6or3k$vhn$1@news3.tilbu1.nb.home.nl>

Pascal wrote:
> Hello,
> I've a float number 123456789.01 and, I'de like to format it like this
> "123 456 789.01".
> Is this possible with % character?

The following should do what you want, although the commafy_float I 
quickly added is probably a little naive:


def commafy(numstring, thousep=","):
     """
     Commafy the given numeric string numstring

     By default the thousands separator is a comma
     """
     numlist = list(numstring)
     numlist.reverse()
     tmp = []
     for i in range(0, len(numlist), 3):
         tmp.append("".join(numlist[i:i+3]))
     numlist = thousep.join(tmp)
     numlist = list(numlist)
     numlist.reverse()
     return "".join(numlist)

def commafy_float(flStr, thousep=","):
     whole, dec = flStr.split(".")
     return ".".join([commafy(whole, thousep=thousep)
                                   , dec])

if __name__ == "__main__":

     units = "56746781250450"
     unitsWithThouSeps = commafy(units)
     print unitsWithThouSeps
     aFloatAsString = "1128058.23"
     aFloatAsStringWithThouSeps = commafy_float(aFloatAsString
                                                ,thousep=" ")
     print aFloatAsStringWithThouSeps


Regards

-- Vincent Wehren




From stewart at midwinter.ca  Tue Apr 13 22:17:52 2004
From: stewart at midwinter.ca (Stewart Midwinter)
Date: 13 Apr 2004 19:17:52 -0700
Subject: Simple pyhon-based CMS
Message-ID: <9396ba6f.0404131817.1219c695@posting.google.com>

I'm looking for a simple python-based CMS (content management system),
maybe with some blog-like features, ability to add articles - nothing
too fancy.  Do you have any suggestions?

I've looked at Zope / Plone: very easy to install using the rpm I
found.  But it's obviously quite complex and powerful, which is no
doubt of benefit on a site that has many users. But I'm just one
person.  All I want is a pythonic replacement for my current tool,
postNuke.

I looked at NewzBruiser: this would probably be simple enough, maybe
even too simple, but it requires that I enable SSI support on Apache,
something I seem to be unable to accomplish (I run SME server from
contribs.org and it uses a byzantine templating system for its
configuring, which leaves me in the dark on how to modify httpd.conf
there).

Any other ideas?

thanks
Stewart in Calgary


From rschroev_nospam_ml at fastmail.fm  Tue Apr 20 03:21:51 2004
From: rschroev_nospam_ml at fastmail.fm (Roel Schroeven)
Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 07:21:51 GMT
Subject: Dollar sign ($) on foriegn keyboards? (prothon)
In-Reply-To: <mk3hc.13895$dZ1.10823@fed1read04>
References: <mk3hc.13895$dZ1.10823@fed1read04>
Message-ID: <jc4hc.78659$tR6.5352521@phobos.telenet-ops.be>

Mark Hahn wrote:
> Can people from outside the U.S. tell me if typing the dollar sign often
> would be a problem in writing code?  Is it available and somewhat easy to
> type on international keyboards?

Belgian azerty: no problem. Easier to type, in fact, than several other 
symbols that are frequently used while programming, e.g. []{}_.

-- 
"Codito ergo sum"
Roel Schroeven


From benjamin.golinvaux at euresys.com  Sun Apr 11 09:21:22 2004
From: benjamin.golinvaux at euresys.com (Benjamin Golinvaux)
Date: 11 Apr 2004 06:21:22 -0700
Subject: building Python extensions with XCode
Message-ID: <af4ebb36.0404110521.11c3f481@posting.google.com>

Dear list members,

I am experienced at building and debugging Python extension DLLs under
Windows, but I would like to do the same using my Mac.

I would like to know how i can create a library that is recognized as
as Python extension. I know i could use distutils with a setup.py
file, but i would like to exactly understand what's going on wrt
compiler flags, etc....

Also, i would like to be able to debug my extension using XCode. I
know that, under Windows, one needs to use a debug build of Python to
run debug extensions, and that the _d suffix needs to be appended to
the extension name for it to be loaded by python_d. Is it specific to
Window or is it the same under Mac OS X as well ?

Thanks so much for your help. I've googled quite hard for this answer
but couldn't find a simple tutorial.

Best

Benjamin Golinvaux


From rtw at freenet.REMOVE.co.uk  Tue Apr  6 09:23:45 2004
From: rtw at freenet.REMOVE.co.uk (Rob Williscroft)
Date: 06 Apr 2004 13:23:45 GMT
Subject: How to do [1]*4 for a tuple
References: <mailman.375.1081213535.20120.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <Xns94C39270D197CukcoREMOVEfreenetrtw@195.129.110.205>

Vineet Jain wrote in news:mailman.375.1081213535.20120.python-
list at python.org:

> I'm not sure I understand why [1]*4 and (1)*4 work differently? [1]*4
> results in [1, 1, 1, 1] while (1)*4 results in 4. There are times when 
> I have to do the following:
> 

>>> (1,) * 4
(1, 1, 1, 1)
>>> 


> '%s some value %s and some other text %s' % (a)*3
> 

>>> a = "<aaa>"
>>> '%s some value %s and some other text %s' % ((a,)*3)
'<aaa> some value <aaa> and some other text <aaa>'



> as apposed to
> 
> '%s some value %s and some other text %s' % (a, a, a)
> 
> In this case I always end up doing
> 
> '%s some value %s and some other text %s' % [a]*3
> 

tuples are comma seperated items, parenthesis just bracket:

>>> b = 1, 3
>>> b
(1, 3)
>>> type( b )
<type 'tuple'>
>>> c = 1,
>>> c
(1,)
>>> type( c )
<type 'tuple'>
>>> 

Rob.
-- 
http://www.victim-prime.dsl.pipex.com/


From marklists at mceahern.com  Thu Apr 29 22:44:33 2004
From: marklists at mceahern.com (Mark McEahern)
Date: Thu, 29 Apr 2004 21:44:33 -0500
Subject: Why cannot jump out the loop?
In-Reply-To: <16529.47951.692940.903411@montanaro.dyndns.org>
References: <BAY9-F307gJrKLYALw800045e2b@hotmail.com>
	<16529.47951.692940.903411@montanaro.dyndns.org>
Message-ID: <4091BD91.4050100@mceahern.com>

Sorry for top-posting:  I just wanted to add that in the OP's case, what 
he really needs is for not while.

import sys
n = int(sys.argv[1])
for i in range(n):
    print locals()

// m

p.s.  Others have already noted that sys.argv returns a sequence of strings.

>    Jinming> I have a very simple python program, which includes a while
>    Jinming> loop. But to my surprise, it cannot jump out the while
>    Jinming> loop. Does anyone know why?
>
>    Jinming> Here is the program:
>    Jinming> ___________________________
>    Jinming> #!/usr/bin/env python
>    Jinming> import sys
>    Jinming> n=sys.argv[1]
>    Jinming> i=0
>    Jinming> while i<n:
>    Jinming>   print "i=",i," n=",n
>    Jinming>   i+=1
>    Jinming> -----------------------------------------------------
>




From jack at performancedrivers.com  Fri Apr  9 15:22:44 2004
From: jack at performancedrivers.com (Jack Diederich)
Date: Fri, 9 Apr 2004 15:22:44 -0400
Subject: module not callable - why not?
In-Reply-To: <107dras2heahcb6@news.supernews.com>
References: <c56jph$rrk$05$1@news.t-online.com>
	<107dras2heahcb6@news.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <20040409192244.GA13415@performancedrivers.com>

On Fri, Apr 09, 2004 at 02:35:33PM -0400, John Roth wrote:
> 
> "Diez B. Roggisch" <deetsNOSPAM at web.de> wrote in message
> news:c56jph$rrk$05$1 at news.t-online.com...
> > Now usually I'd create a file called "quaternion.py", define my quaternion
> > class in there and then import and create an instance like this:
> >
> > import quaternion
> >
> > q = quaternion.quaternion()
> >
> > Thats a lot to type. doing a
> >
> > from quaternion import quaternion
> >
> > would solve that - but AFAIK thats considered bad for some reasons.
> 
> I don't know why that's bad. Its fairly common in fact.
> What's usually bad is "from foobar import *" which loads
> your module namespace with a bunch of identifiers that
> are not documented in the source of that module, and that
> may change if the imported module changes.
> 
> In fact, I'd probably do: "from quaternion import quaternion as q"
> to minimize typing later.
> 
Naming style and imports came up on python-dev recently.
There were some good suggestions to make life easier:

- Don't name the module and a class in it the same thing
  import Queue # Queue is a module
  from Queue import Queue # Queue is a class
 
  .. 50 lines later ...  

  ob = Queue() # do I want to do this?
  ob = Queue.Queue() # or this?

- Do name modules more generically than the first class you put in them.
  from your example a good name may be 'quatmath' because there will
  also be some methods to manipulate Quaternion instances in there too.
  import quatmath
  q1 = quatmath.Quaternion(a, bi, ck, dk)
  q2 = quatmath.Quaternion(a*2, bi, ck, dk*2)
  result = quatmath.concat(q1, q2)

As a personal preference I'd avoid overriding __add__ __mult__ and
other operators in the Quaternion class.  It is easy to forget what
'q1 * q2' is doing but hard to miss 'quatmath.product(q1, q2)'.

-jackdied
    



From fnord at u.washington.edu  Wed Apr 14 17:27:00 2004
From: fnord at u.washington.edu (Lonnie Princehouse)
Date: 14 Apr 2004 14:27:00 -0700
Subject: A solution to distutils' habit of installing data_files
	inconsistantly
Message-ID: <f70e3538.0404141327.6cea58ca@posting.google.com>

I've just spent an hour or so being frustrated at the way distutils
installs data files, and a quick search of c.l.py shows that I'm not
the first.  For posterity, here's an easy (albeit limited) solution.


The Problem:
    Distutils installs data files by default in sys.prefix or
sys.exec_prefix, and the installation location is not always
consistant between Win32 and Unix.  This means that you have to
duplicate distutils' logic in order to find out where your package's
data files got installed :(
    What you really want is to have your data files in the same place
as your Python code, so that you can find them easily.

The Solution: 
   More complicated packages like PyXML and OpenGLContext address this
by subclassing distutils.command.install_data and/or
distutils.command.install, and then using the cmdclass argument to
setup() to override distutils' built in command handlers.  This is
overkill if you only have a few data files and you just want them to
go into the same directories as your Python code.  Here's an easier
way.  Do this before you call setup():

from distutils.command.install import INSTALL_SCHEMES

for scheme in INSTALL_SCHEMES.values():
    scheme['data'] = scheme['purelib']

Alternately, that should read 'platlib' instead of 'purelib' if your
data files are platform specific.

This sets the default data directory to the default pure python
directory, lib/site-packages in most cases.



-ljp


From grante at visi.com  Wed Apr 28 11:24:35 2004
From: grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards)
Date: 28 Apr 2004 15:24:35 GMT
Subject: Path ... where is my application's home dir?
References: <mailman.76.1083159752.25742.python-list@python.org>
	<408fbc0a$0$17256$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
	<mailman.80.1083163424.25742.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <408fccb3$0$17264$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>

On 2004-04-28, Marco Aschwanden <PPNTWIMBXFFC at spammotel.com> wrote:

> - I want to store the current state of the application when leaving the 
>   application in an ini-file.
> - It is a "single-user" pc!
> - It is Windows.

I could tell you the right thing to do under Unix. In Windows,
I'm lost.  I sort of assumed you were writing for a Unix
system, since your question is asked constantly in various
newsgroups and it's almost always being asked by a Win32
programmer working on his first Unix application.

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow!  I just had a MAJOR
                                  at               CONTRACT DISPUTE with
                               visi.com            SUZANNE SOMERS!!


From fumanchu at amor.org  Sat Apr  3 15:30:38 2004
From: fumanchu at amor.org (Robert Brewer)
Date: Sat, 3 Apr 2004 12:30:38 -0800
Subject: Python is faster than C
Message-ID: <DE1CF2B4FEC4A342BF62B6B2B334601E561FAC@opus.amorhq.net>

Armin Rigo wrote:
> This is a rant against the optimization trend of the Python 
> interpreter.
> ...Iterators, for example, are great in limited cases
> but I consider their introduction a significant complication in the
> language; before, you could expect that some function from which you
> would expect a sequence returned a list.  Python was all lists and
> dicts, with dicts used as namespaces here and there.  
> 
> >>> enumerate([6,7,8,9])         # uh ?
> <enumerate object at 0x401a102c>
> 
> enumerate() should return a normal list, and
> it should be someone else's job to ensure that it is 
> correctly optimized
> away if possible (and I'm not even talking about Psyco, it 
> could be done
> in the current Python implementation with a reasonable amount of
> effort).

I'd like to think I'm not understanding your point, but you made it so
danged *clear*.

Enumerate should absolutely *not* return a normal list. The use case I
think you're missing is when I do not want the enumeration optimized at
all; I want it performed on-the-fly on purpose:

for i, line in enumerate(file('40GB.csv')):
    if i % 600000:
        do_special()
    else:
        do_normal()

Forcing enumerate to return a list would drag not only the entire
40GB.csv into memory, but also the entire set of i. Using an iterator in
this case instead of a list *is* the optimization.

> I know you can always do list(_).  My point is that this is a
> user-visible optimization.

Iterators are not lists and shouldn't be confused/substituted with them.
The use cases are by no means limited; I have thousands of lines of code
which use iterators, not lists, precisely for their differences. If you
want a list instead of an iterator, this _should be_ user-visible.


Robert Brewer
MIS
Amor Ministries
fumanchu at amor.org



From ravi_b_m at yahoo.com  Thu Apr  8 11:01:26 2004
From: ravi_b_m at yahoo.com (Ravi)
Date: 8 Apr 2004 08:01:26 -0700
Subject: Python thread problem
Message-ID: <117cce06.0404080701.2ed5ca1b@posting.google.com>

Hi all,
         I am running a python cgi which inturn calls a python thread.
This python thread executes some commands and sends an email to the
admin.
         I am facing a strange problem, in the cgi script when I set
the python
thread to run as Daemon, then it does not send the email, but when I
donot set the thread as daemon, it does send the email.
        Can somebody help me as to this behaviour ? 

I am running the cgi and python scripts on linux. The only problem I
can see is that the email module is present in python2.3 and I have
python 2.3 installed at /usr/local/lib/python2.3 and also have
python1.5 installed at /usr/lib/python1.5.

Is this the problem for such behaviour? Is there a way to fix ? Could
somebody help me out please?

Thank you in advance.

Ravi.


From mcfletch at rogers.com  Mon Apr 26 22:00:50 2004
From: mcfletch at rogers.com (Mike C. Fletcher)
Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2004 22:00:50 -0400
Subject: What is good about Prothon?
In-Reply-To: <bniq80hiib0gauiltuntk9jvia2getbnj4@4ax.com>
References: <bniq80hiib0gauiltuntk9jvia2getbnj4@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <408DBED2.3010600@rogers.com>

David MacQuigg wrote:
...

>All methods look like functions (which students already understand).
>  
>
I think it might be more proper to say that you've made all functions 
methods with an implicitly defined target, but I suppose the statement 
is still technically true.

>Benefits of Proposed Syntax
>===========================
>-- Unification of all function forms ( bound, unbound, static, class,
>lambda ).  All will have the same form as a normal function
>definition.  This will make it easier to teach OOP.  Students will
>already understand functions and modules.  OOP is a small step up.  A
>prototype will look just like a module ( except for the instance
>variables ).  See Parallels between Prototypes and Modules below.
>  
>
This is nice.  Not "I'm going to rush out to adopt a language because of 
it" nice, but nice enough.  I'm curious about one thing:

    proto x( object ):
        flog :( x, y ):
           .x = x
    a = x()
    b = x()
    a.flog = b.flog
    a.flog()
    print b.x

In other words, how do I hold a reference to a bound method/function if 
there are no such things and only the "last access" determines what the 
implicit target is?  Just to be clear, I'm assuming you're going to have 
storage *somewhere* so that:

    a = module.do
    a()

works.

>-- Using an explicit __self__ variable avoids the magic first
>argument, and makes it easier to explain instance variables.  See the
>sections below comparing a brief explanation of instance variables in
>Python vs the simplified form.  A full presentation of OOP, like pages
>295-390 in Learning Python, 2nd ed. will likely be 1/2 the number of
>pages.  Not only is the basic presentation simpler, but we can
>eliminate a lot of discussion of lambda functions, static methods,
>etc.
>  
>
This is a wash IMO, with the explicit "self" having a slight edge on 
"Explicit is better than Implicit" grounds.  You now have to explain 
where the magic __self__ comes from instead of how self is bound when 
you access the instance's method.  They're both magic, the Python stuff 
is just explicitly visible.  Still, since you're coding it deep into 
this new language, it'll be first nature to the Whateverthon programmer.

On a personal note, the moment where I "got" the concept of methods 
(Python was my first OO language) was seeing "self" in the argument list 
of a function and realising that it's just a parameter curried into the 
function by doing x.method lookup.  That is, it just looked like any 
other function, the parameter was just a parameter, nothing special, 
nothing requiring any extra knowledge save how it got bound (and that's 
pretty darn simple).  Coming from a structures+functions background it 
made complete sense.

>-- All attributes of a prototype ( both data and functions ) will be
>in a neat column, making it easier to find a particular attribute when
>visually scanning a program.  Understanding the structure of a program
>will be almost as quick as seeing a UML diagram.
>  
>
Can't say I find it particularly compelling as an argument, not if 
introducing punctuation-itis is the cost, anyway.  Most people I know 
use syntax colouring editors, after all.

>-- Lambda keyword will be gone.  An anonymous function using normal
>function syntax can be extremely compact. ( :x,y:x+y )
>  
>
That particular example almost screams "don't do this", doesn't it?  
:(x,y): x+y  I can see as an improvement, but yawn, really.  Making 
function definitions expressions rather than statements would have the 
same effect.  By the way, how do you know when your lambda is finished?  
I gather the ()s are required if using as an expression?

>-- Method definitions will be less cluttered and less typing with
>__self__ as a hidden variable.
>  
>
I personally prefer explicit to implicit, but I know there's lots of 
people who are big into saving a few keystrokes.

>-- Changing numerous attributes of an instance will be more
>convenient. ( need use case )
>  
>
That's nice, but honestly, if you're doing a lot of this in cases 
trivial enough to warrant the addition you should likely be refactoring 
with a domain-modelling system anyway.  Still, if you modify the with to 
work something like this:

    with x:
       .this = 32
       .that = 43
       temp = 'this'*repeat
       .something = temp[:55]

i.e. to just alter the implicit target of the block, not force all 
variables to be assigned to the object, it seems a nice enough feature.

>Pro2:  Replace lambdas with standard function syntax.
>
>Con2:  ???
>  
>
Fine, but no need to redefine the spelling for that save to make the 
definition itself an expression that returns the function as a value and 
allows one to drop the name.  i.e. a = def ( y,z ): y+z  would work just 
as well if you could assign the result to a variable and figured out how 
you wanted to handle the indentation-continuation thing to know when the 
function ended.

>Explicit __self__
>
>Pro1:  Allows the unification of methods and functions.
>
>Con1:  ???
>  
>
Is hidden (implicit) magic that requires the user to learn rules as to 
what the target is when treating functions/methods as first-class 
objects.  Not a big deal, really.

>Pro2:  Explanation of instance variables is simpler.
>
>Con2:  Using __self__ instead of a special first argument is less
>explicit.
>  
>
Um, can't say I see this as a huge pedagogical win.  A function either 
takes an argument self and can set attributes of the object, or a 
function has access to a magical "global" __self__ on which it can set 
attributes.  I'll agree that it's nice having the same concept for 
module and class variables, but seeing that as a huge win assumes, I 
think, that those being taught are coming from a "globals and functions" 
background rather than a structures and functions background.  One type 
is accustomed to altering their execution environment, the other to 
altering solely those things which are passed into the function as 
parameters.

>Pro3:  Less typing and less clutter in method definitions.
>
>Con3:  Can use "s" or "_" instead of "self" to minimize typing and
>clutter.
>  
>
That's a counter, not a con.  Similarly "Explicit is better than 
Implicit" is only a counter, not a con.  A con would be: "presence of 
variable of implicit origin" or "too much punctuation".  Don't think 
either is a huge concern.

>"Assignment" Syntax for Function Definitions
>
>Pro1:  See all the variables at a glance in one column.
>
>Con1:  ???
>  
>
Doesn't seem a particularly strong pro.  IOW seems pretty minimal in 
benefit.  As for a con, the eye, particularly in a syntax-colouring 
editor picks out keywords very well, while punctuation tends to blur 
into other punctuation.

>Pro2:  Emphasize the similarity between data and functions as
>attributes of an object.
>
>Con2:  ???
>  
>
I see the pro, seems approx. the same to me.

>With Block
>
>Pro:  Saves typing the object name on each line.
>
>Con:  Making it too easy to modify prototypes after they have been
>created will lead to more undisciplined programming.
>  
>
As specified, makes it only useful for trivial assignments.  If you're 
going to all the trouble of introducing .x notation to save keystrokes, 
why not simply have with alter __self__ for the block so you can still 
distinguish between temporary and instance variables?

In the final analysis, this really seems like about 3 separate proposals:

    * I like the .x notation's universal applicability, it does seem
      simple and elegant from a certain point of view
          o I don't like the implicit __self__, but that's an integral
            part of the proposal, so a wash
          o I'd want clarification of how to store a reference to
            another object's (bound) method (which is *extremely* common
            in Python code for storing, e.g. callbacks)
    * I really dislike the :( ): function definition notation,
      "Readability Counts".  Why clutter the proposal with that?
    * I'm neutral on the with: stuff, I'd much prefer a real block
      mechanism similar to Ruby with (if we're using implicit targets),
      the ability to specify the .x target for the block

So, the .x notation seems like it would be nice enough, but nothing else 
really makes me jump up and down for it...

That said, I'd probably be willing to use a language that was running on 
the PythonVM with a parser/compiler that supported the syntax.  I'd be 
totally uninterested in automated translation of Python code to the new 
form.  That's the kind of thing that can be handled by running on the 
same VM just as easily as anything else and you then avoid lots of 
migration headaches.

So, just as a marketing data-point; I'm not convinced that this is 
markedly superior, but I'd be willing to try a language that differed 
from Python in just the .x aspects to see whether it was worthwhile. 

Have fun,
Mike

_______________________________________
  Mike C. Fletcher
  Designer, VR Plumber, Coder
  http://members.rogers.com/mcfletch/





From google at evpopov.com  Wed Apr 14 04:17:34 2004
From: google at evpopov.com (popov)
Date: 14 Apr 2004 01:17:34 -0700
Subject: 3D Graphics Engine
References: <8089854e.0404130639.3eb0db62@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <7eecf173.0404140017.6d7b06a4@posting.google.com>

> Can anyone reccomend a 3d engine for me to 'muck around with'.

You can have a look to Ogre: www.ogre3d.org.
Python bindings may not be up to date, but they should be at the first
official release (which should now happen in a not so far future).


From fumanchu at amor.org  Tue Apr 27 11:18:35 2004
From: fumanchu at amor.org (Robert Brewer)
Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2004 08:18:35 -0700
Subject: Is Perl *that* good?
Message-ID: <DE1CF2B4FEC4A342BF62B6B2B334601E56206C@opus.amorhq.net>

[Roger Binns]
> To solve the same problems, Netscape invented yet another language and
> put "marketing flavour of the day" in front, blessing us with
Javascript.
> I really wish Tcl had won that one.

[Paul Prescod]
> I wish Python had won. ;)

I wish Python had won, as well. But time is linear (in my mind). I now
wish only that we could leverage the similarity of JS and Python
(execution and binding models) into more Python users. Marketing needs
to run with the line, "So you know Javascript? Then you know Python!"

Is anyone using AXScript extensively?


Robert Brewer
MIS
Amor Ministries
fumanchu at amor.org



From tuure at laurinolli.net  Mon Apr  5 18:17:14 2004
From: tuure at laurinolli.net (Tuure Laurinolli)
Date: Tue, 06 Apr 2004 01:17:14 +0300
Subject: Session variables?
In-Reply-To: <4070bad0$1@clarion.carno.net.au>
References: <4070bad0$1@clarion.carno.net.au>
Message-ID: <c4slgd$l1d$1@plaza.suomi.net>

Steve wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> I'm trying to find a clean way of sharing variables across different 
> python webpages and scripts and I need something like a session variable 
> for each user. Is this possible in Python? I've been "pickling" stuff 
> and this doesn't work at all with mutliple users as things get mixed up. 
> Is there any clean way of doing this? Thanks,

The session module in jonpy package seems to be a nice base for 
sessions, though it lacks some features like explicitly deleting a session.


From mark at prothon.org  Thu Apr 15 19:35:44 2004
From: mark at prothon.org (Mark Hahn)
Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2004 16:35:44 -0700
Subject: CamelCase versus wide_names (Prothon)
References: <UHxfc.9323$dZ1.3740@fed1read04>
	<mailman.666.1082064823.20120.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <N_Efc.9389$dZ1.7955@fed1read04>

Fran?ois Pinard wrote:

> Both cannot be "more readable" simultaneously! :-)

I was wondering if anyone would catch that :)  You win the prize!

I was giving each argument from the perspective of the  one who wants that
choice.

P.S.  Has anyone noticed that I have finally taught myself how to not
top-post?  I have been practicing the last few weeks on the Prothon list.  I
has NOT been easy to un-teach 30 years of email posting method.  I hope the
people that black-holed me can forgive me now and let me back in.




From mcherm at mcherm.com  Fri Apr 16 13:55:48 2004
From: mcherm at mcherm.com (Michael Chermside)
Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2004 10:55:48 -0700
Subject: Python OS
Message-ID: <1082138148.40801e2433478@mcherm.com>

A Evans writes:
> I am by no means a programmer at this stage.
> But as I learn more and more I see Python as the
> Holy Grail of programming languages

Then you have much to learn. Different languages have different
strengths, and a skilled programmer will realize that. Python
is an excellent language for expressing algorithms, doing rapid
prototyping, and a GREAT many other tasks. But it is poorly
suited to performing low-level register and bit manipulation.
If I wanted an inference engine, I might use prolog rather than
Python.

In the world of OSes, I think a core done in something like C
with the higher level kernel functionality in Python would make
an interesting system for experimenting with OS design. But
performance is likely to be unreasonable for a "production" OS.
Remember too, that much of what is nice about Python is that it
provides you with easy access to OS facilities (everything from
sockets (as a library) to memory management (in the language).
If you were developing an OS then that wouldn't be available
until you had built it.

-- Michael Chermside




From daniel at syrinx.net  Sat Apr  3 06:30:22 2004
From: daniel at syrinx.net (Daniel Ellison)
Date: Sat, 3 Apr 2004 06:30:22 -0500
Subject: [maybe OT] Making posters
References: <95aa1afa.0404030143.58c32975@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.300.1080987238.20120.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <c4m76h$2kffhs$1@ID-227230.news.uni-berlin.de>

"Richie Hindle" <richie at entrian.com> wrote in message
news:mailman.300.1080987238.20120.python-list at python.org...
>
> [Michele]
> > Perhaps this is a bit off topic, but I haven't had look browsing on the
> > net, so I thought I will try my chance here. I am looking for a
> > tool taking a postscript file and enlarging it to make a poster.
> > For instance I want to convert a picture taking a sheet in a poster
> > made by four sheet that I can compose. Any suggestion? A Python
> > suggestion would help me to stay on topic ;)
>
> You don't mention your platform, but my printer driver (WinXP driver for
> the Samsumg ML-1210 laser printer) will do this itself for any document -
> have you had a good dig though your printer driver options?
>
> -- 
> Richie Hindle
> richie at entrian.com
>
>

If you have the raw Postscript file, you can simply add a line near the
beginning that looks something like this:

    400 400 scale

which will scale the image by 400%. It's been quite a while since I did
Postscript programming so the example might not be 100% correct, but a bit
of research will get you on the right track.

It's not Python, but it'll work.

Dan




From roman.yakovenko at actimize.com  Wed Apr 14 09:05:33 2004
From: roman.yakovenko at actimize.com (Roman Yakovenko)
Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2004 16:05:33 +0300
Subject: Unable to create com object - need help
Message-ID: <2D89F6C4A80FA547BF5D5B8FDDD04523060C63@exchange.adrembi.com>

I tried your module. It seems that you generate code right :-)
but IEnumUnknown doesn't defined in any file. 
I can try to edit ctypes.com.__init__.py to get the desired result.
But before I do this I'd like to ask you do you have more recent version that fix it.
If so I'll be glad. If not I will try to write a patch.

Roman

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Roman Yakovenko 
> Sent: Wednesday, April 14, 2004 3:34 PM
> To: python-list at python.org
> Subject: RE: Unable to create com object - need help
> 
> 
> Thank you very much. I definitly will try your module.
> Also I still have to questions:
> 1. How does VB success to work with this dll?
> 2. Why after using makepy utility I don't get interface 
> registered in DiaSource class
> 
> I understand that the first question is generic one, and has 
> nothing to do with python.
> But any reference to this specifiec topic will be 
> appreciated. Also I'd like to know the answer
> to the second question. It will help me a lot in my future work
> 
> Roman.
> 
> 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Thomas Heller [mailto:theller at python.net]
> > Sent: Wednesday, April 14, 2004 2:57 PM
> > To: python-list at python.org
> > Subject: Re: Unable to create com object - need help
> > 
> > 
> > "Roman Yakovenko" <roman.yakovenko at actimize.com> writes:
> > 
> > > 	Hi. I need some help. 
> > > Here is my situation. It is a little bit difficult to 
> > explain and/or understand.
> > > I'd like to use msdia71.dll. This dll gives you access to 
> > program database files
> > > created during a build. I register this dll. This is pure 
> com dll. 
> > > This dll contains 3 top classes. I'd like to create one of 
> > them - DiaSource. 
> > > This class implements IDiaDataSource interface. This fact I 
> > can see in dia2.idl. 
> > >
> > >  importlib("stdole2.tlb");
> > >     [
> > >         uuid(e60afbee-502d-46ae-858f-8272a09bd707),
> > >         helpstring("DiaSource Class")
> > >     ]
> > >     coclass DiaSource
> > >     {
> > >         [default] interface IDiaDataSource;
> > >     };
> > >
> > > after using makepy I get 
> > >
> > > class DiaSource(CoClassBaseClass): # A CoClass
> > > 	# DiaSource Class
> > > 	CLSID = IID('{E60AFBEE-502D-46AE-858F-8272A09BD707}')
> > > 	coclass_sources = [
> > > 	]
> > > 	coclass_interfaces = [
> > > 	]
> > > If I understand right DiaSource doesn't implements 
> > IDiaDataSource interface at all. 
> > > May be this is a bug, may be I don't understand something. 
> > Clarifying this point will be great.
> > 
> > I think this has to do with the fact that with pywin32 you 
> > cannot access
> > arbitrary com interfaces - only interfaces that either have 
> > been wrapped
> > in pythoncom.dll or that derive from IDispatch.  The DIA 
> > interfaces all
> > derive from IUnknown, so it seems you cannot call them.
> > 
> > There is ongoing work in pywin32 named 'universal' or something like
> > that, but I don't know how far it is.
> > 
> > Another possibility is to use ctypes com layer, it has a 
> tool somewhat
> > similar to makepy - it's called readtlb.py, and creates 
> > python wrappers
> > for com interfaces.  ctypes.com has some samples 
> > demonstrating all this.
> > 
> > HTH,
> > 
> > Thomas
> > 
> > 
> > -- 
> > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
> > 
> 
> -- 
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
> 



From peter at engcorp.com  Sun Apr 25 18:17:57 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Sun, 25 Apr 2004 18:17:57 -0400
Subject: Andreas' practical language comparison
In-Reply-To: <408c23b8$0$41746$5fc3050@dreader2.news.tiscali.nl>
References: <c6glig$phm$07$4@news.t-online.com>
	<TrGdnVUrJdjsahbdRVn-iQ@powergate.ca>
	<c6gu81$pk6$05$2@news.t-online.com>
	<408c23b8$0$41746$5fc3050@dreader2.news.tiscali.nl>
Message-ID: <B8-dnfrQWJOLpBHdRVn-uw@powergate.ca>

GerritM wrote:

> I really would like to see the linecount. I do belive that it is one of the
> indicators of the power of the language and its batteries. Somehow it would
> be nice to have a figure for "readability", but I don't have a clue how to
> generate such a figure in an automatic way. Maybe you need some panel of
> experts that gives a readability figure?

I'd reply to this, but as there is already a discussion on
comp.lang.misc (as Andreas said) it would probably be
silly to continue one in parallel here...

-Peter


From blacksqr at usa.net  Thu Apr 15 14:57:38 2004
From: blacksqr at usa.net (Stephen Huntley)
Date: 15 Apr 2004 11:57:38 -0700
Subject: Goodbye TCL
References: <0LudnSads6NmpuPdRVn-vw@centurytel.net>
Message-ID: <f82c8ae7.0404151057.67333d4e@posting.google.com>

Ed:

I think your post is valuable.  Instead of trying to invalidate your
arguments, I will outline my reasons why I stick to Tcl.  Then we can
perhaps glimpse how strengths and weaknesses counterbalance.

The main reasons I stick with Tcl are:

1. Rock-solid stability.  I'm too old to spare time wondering if
frequent crashes in my software are my fault or the underlying
technology's fault.  Tcl largely removes this consideration from the
equation.  America Online's web server is written in Tcl.  It is
highly unlikely I will ever need to scale a product of mine to that
level, so there's a lot of headroom for me.

I have occasionally looked into new technologies, like Python, PHP,
Ruby, etc; but I've noticed that if you look beyond the FAQ's deep
into the developer mailing lists, you'll generally find statements
like: 'development of the core is going really really well, and within
the next few releases we actually expect it to be stable!'  Hold me.

I frequently use Tcl to write wrappers for other products to catch and
compensate for their shortcomings.  This would be pointless if it
weren't for the fact that Tcl is at least an order of magnitude more
stable and reliable than any other technology I've tried.

2. Freedom from bugs.  For years after college I did almost no coding
because I was sick of the fact that I would have to rewrite literally
everything I wrote two or three times to find a syntactically correct
version that didn't hit a deadly bug.  Imagine my surprise when my
first Tcl scripts Just Worked.  And the docs were accurate and
complete too, so I didn't have to spend half my time
reverse-engineering (another new experience).  For this reason alone
Tcl is almost single-handedly responsible for the fact that I am still
working in the computer world.

In ten years of Tcl scripting, I think I've encountered three bugs in
the core.  I found upon reporting that each one was already fixed in
the latest version.  I just don't bother to upgrade my core very often
because of 1. and 2.

3. Platform agnosticism.  Since Tcl was originally designed to be
embedded it play no favorites in terms of platform features.  It's
available on a wide variety of platforms and I suspect will be there
on the platforms of the future in equally reliable forms.  I started
with computers on Unix as a student, as a professional worked first
with Macintosh v 7, then on to Windows, and now a bit of everything
(five *nix versions, four Win*s and handheld devices).  AS/400 was in
there somewhere.  Tcl has been there every step of the way.  I'm too
old to relearn my chops every time a new OS fad blows through, and I
don't want to have to predict winners and losers.  I feel Tcl
minimizes the likelihood I will have to.

Here at work I suggested we use a free Tcl installer program rather
than a for-pay Java one.  Management chose the Java option.  Why? 
Because the Java company officially supported all the platforms we
needed to be on, and management felt they couldn't take the risk of
going without assurances.  It's turned out that the installer has
required special handling or patches for every OS (and almost every OS
version) we've tried it on, resulting in numerous gotchas and
release-note warnings for our customers.  And "official support" is a
bulletin board where their engineers' response is always "we're
working on it."  Meanwhile my build and test scripts run merrily and
without alteration everywhere.

Alternative technologies tend nakedly to favor *nix, and seem only to
offer a subset of function on other OS's grudgingly.  Python and
similar technologies treat platform-specific issues like pathnames and
line terminators as special cases with their own commands or
compensating strategies to handle them.  Tcl largely handles them
tranparently.  It was years before I was even aware of some of these
issues because Tcl handled them so well.  Python uses ASCII as a
default string encoding, but recently managed to bolt on a Unicode
library (same with PHP I think).  I haven't looked into its Shift-JIS
suppport, which I need for work (and is included with Tcl).

4. Tk.  Other technologies say 'We don't have a native GUI interface,
but there's a binding to the Tk library.'  For all intents and
purposes, Tk is the only game in town for cross-platform GUI
scripting.  When I'm using Tcl I know I have access to 100% of Tk's
features and the latest Tk version.  Is that true with other
languages' bindings?  I don't know, but if I had to bet money I'd say
no.

Tk follow's Tcl's logic, and it's a lot easier to program Tk
interfaces when in the Tcl mindset then try to access Tk's features by
switching gears from another language's mindset.  I don't do GUI
programming very often, but when I have to, it's nice to know that I
can do it as a trivial extension of my existing Tcl skills.

Ed, your voice-recognition project looks very interesting, and I look
forward to using it when it's ready for prime time.  I spend 90% of my
time in front of a Windows computer (my boss's choice, not mine): how
does it run on Windows?  How stable is it?  How does Twisted's event
architecture compare to Tcl's?


Steve Huntley


From jorg at neoplex.org  Sat Apr 10 09:13:11 2004
From: jorg at neoplex.org (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jorg_R=F8dsj=F8?=)
Date: Sat, 10 Apr 2004 15:13:11 +0200
Subject: recording sound from mic in Windows?
Message-ID: <4077f42a@news.broadpark.no>

I looking for a way to record a voice with a microphone and save the 
recording in wav format using python.

Does anybody know any module which would let me do this?

This is for a school project where we are going to use this recording to 
send voice-messages to cell-phones

regards
Jorg R?dsj?



From greg at cosc.canterbury.ac.nz  Tue Apr 20 02:25:23 2004
From: greg at cosc.canterbury.ac.nz (Greg Ewing)
Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 18:25:23 +1200
Subject: campaining for PEP 238 - integer division
In-Reply-To: <f445a2fe.0404171659.60992eff@posting.google.com>
References: <f445a2fe.0404171659.60992eff@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <c62foj$77ijp$1@ID-169208.news.uni-berlin.de>

Sebastian Haase wrote:
> The fact is that changing something as fundamental as the division
> operator WILL BRAKE LOTS OF CODE !!
                 ^^^^^

Ah, so *that's* why my code isn't running fast enough...

-- 
Greg Ewing, Computer Science Dept,
University of Canterbury,	
Christchurch, New Zealand
http://www.cosc.canterbury.ac.nz/~greg



From matt at themattfella.zzzz.com  Sun Apr 11 23:23:58 2004
From: matt at themattfella.zzzz.com (Matt)
Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2004 03:23:58 GMT
Subject: Python OS
In-Reply-To: <107jq68ao58o7ff@corp.supernews.com>
References: <107j4eu6ffn2c68@corp.supernews.com>
	<107jq68ao58o7ff@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <iZnec.312$uv1.110@news02.roc.ny>

> From:	    torvalds at klaava.Helsinki.FI (Linus Benedict Torvalds)
> Newsgroups: comp.os.minix
> Subject:    What would you like to see most in minix?
> Date:	    25 Aug 91 20:57:08 GMT
> 
> 
> Hello everybody out there using minix -
> 
> I'm doing a (free) operating system (just a hobby, won't be big and
> professional like gnu) for 386(486) AT clones.  This has been brewing
> since april, and is starting to get ready.  I'd like any feedback on
> things people like/dislike in minix, as my OS resembles it somewhat
> (same physical layout of the file-system (due to practical reasons)
> among other things).
> 
> I've currently ported bash(1.08) and gcc(1.40), and things seem to work.
> This implies that I'll get something practical within a few months, and
> I'd like to know what features most people would want.  Any suggestions
> are welcome, but I won't promise I'll implement them :-)
> 
>               Linus (torvalds at kruuna.helsinki.fi)
> 
> PS.  Yes - it's free of any minix code, and it has a multi-threaded fs.
> It is NOT protable (uses 386 task switching etc), and it probably never
> will support anything other than AT-harddisks, as that's all I have :-(.



From peter at engcorp.com  Fri Apr  9 13:17:09 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Fri, 09 Apr 2004 13:17:09 -0400
Subject: module not callable - why not?
In-Reply-To: <VKAdc.360$rC3.22993@attbi_s53>
References: <c56jph$rrk$05$1@news.t-online.com> <VKAdc.360$rC3.22993@attbi_s53>
Message-ID: <8Mqdnb5WObgLR-vd4p2dnA@powergate.ca>

djw wrote:
> Diez B. Roggisch wrote:
> 
>> import quaternion
>> q = quaternion.quaternion()
>>
>> Thats a lot to type. doing a
>> from quaternion import quaternion
>> would solve that - but AFAIK thats considered bad for some reasons.
> 
> I think what people consider dangerous is 'from <module> import *'. The 
> form you give here is OK, as far as I know.

Even "from xxx import yyy" can be dangerous if you don't know
what you're doing.  More specifically, any time the yyy thing
might be dynamic (i.e. replace in the original module with
something else at a later time), you will end up with a situation
in which everyone who did the "from xxx import yyy" before the
change has a binding to something other than what xxx.yyy is
currently bound to.

Generally speaking it's safe to do (and so is "from xxx import *")
but considered poor form, extremely so in the latter case.  And
it's not an arbitrary thing: doing this makes code less readable
and maintainable because it becomes unclear where names are
coming from without constant reference to the list of imports
at the top.

-Peter


From peter.maas at mplusr.de  Thu Apr 22 10:04:58 2004
From: peter.maas at mplusr.de (Peter Maas)
Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2004 16:04:58 +0200
Subject: Problem with xml.dom parser and xmlns attribute
In-Reply-To: <c6856g$qt0@newton.cc.rl.ac.uk>
References: <c682uu$sco$1@swifty.westend.com> <c6856g$qt0@newton.cc.rl.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <c68jai$g85$1@swifty.westend.com>

Richard Brodie wrote:
> "Peter Maas" <peter.maas at mplusr.de> wrote in message news:c682uu$sco$1 at swifty.westend.com...
[...]
>>but if I replace <html> by <html xmlns="http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml">
[...]
>>A lot of HTML documents on Internet have this xmlns=.... Are
>>they wrong or is this a PyXML bug?
> 
> 
> If they are genuine XHTML documents, they should be well-formed XML,
> so you should be able to use an XML rather than an SGML parser.
> 
> from  xml.dom.ext.reader import Sax2
> r = Sax2.Reader()

Thanks, Richard. But in the Internet most of the time I don't know
what kind of document I'm dealing with when I start parsing. I guess
I should use HTMLParser (?).

Mit freundlichen Gruessen,

Peter Maas

-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Peter Maas, M+R Infosysteme, D-52070 Aachen, Hubert-Wienen-Str. 24
Tel +49-241-93878-0 Fax +49-241-93878-20 eMail peter.maas at mplusr.de
-------------------------------------------------------------------


From newsgroups at jhrothjr.com  Fri Apr  9 14:35:33 2004
From: newsgroups at jhrothjr.com (John Roth)
Date: Fri, 9 Apr 2004 14:35:33 -0400
Subject: module not callable - why not?
References: <c56jph$rrk$05$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <107dras2heahcb6@news.supernews.com>


"Diez B. Roggisch" <deetsNOSPAM at web.de> wrote in message
news:c56jph$rrk$05$1 at news.t-online.com...
> Hi,
>
> I just thought about creating a module for quaternions (as an personal
> exercise, so I'm not after pointers to classlibs here).
>
> Now usually I'd create a file called "quaternion.py", define my quaternion
> class in there and then import and create an instance like this:
>
> import quaternion
>
> q = quaternion.quaternion()
>
> Thats a lot to type. doing a
>
> from quaternion import quaternion
>
> would solve that - but AFAIK thats considered bad for some reasons.

I don't know why that's bad. Its fairly common in fact.
What's usually bad is "from foobar import *" which loads
your module namespace with a bunch of identifiers that
are not documented in the source of that module, and that
may change if the imported module changes.

In fact, I'd probably do: "from quaternion import quaternion as q"
to minimize typing later.

> Now I thought about defining a __call__ operator at module level to allow
> this:
>
> import quaternion
>
> q = quaternion()
>
>
> where the call looks like this:
>
> def __call__(*a, *kw):
>     return quaternion()
>
> But that doesn't work.
>
> Now my question is: Is there a way to make a module callable that way? And
> wouldn't it make sense to allow the implementation of a call operator on
> module level?

No, and probably not.

There's no really earthshaking reason why a module object
couldn't be a callable, and I suspect it would be rather simple
to do. However, it would add some complexity to the model,
and IMO your use case isn't compelling enough.

Other people may disagree with me on that, though.

John Roth

> -- 
> Regards,
>
> Diez B. Roggisch




From greg at cosc.canterbury.ac.nz  Sun Apr 25 23:24:33 2004
From: greg at cosc.canterbury.ac.nz (Greg Ewing)
Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2004 15:24:33 +1200
Subject: Why we will use obj$func() often
In-Reply-To: <Tunic.32387$dZ1.12932@fed1read04>
References: <d2Uhc.22272$dZ1.1600@fed1read04> <84Uhc.22278$dZ1.5087@fed1read04>
	<mailman.927.1082665370.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<8AWhc.23114$dZ1.11070@fed1read04> <40883BFE.B381518A@alcyone.com>
	<27_hc.23801$dZ1.2716@fed1read04> <40887145.789A2FE8@alcyone.com>
	<7cki80hj976bia36lhf9er97v073o1pqvm@4ax.com>
	<w8dic.28710$dZ1.11206@fed1read04> <ulXiAls/KH1K089yn@the-wire.com>
	<lkfic.29767$dZ1.17301@fed1read04>
	<donn-66132E.15345723042004@nntp3.u.washington.edu>
	<PLhic.30493$dZ1.22063@fed1read04> <1082783076.585831@yasure>
	<Tunic.32387$dZ1.12932@fed1read04>
Message-ID: <c6hvdk$bs63j$1@ID-169208.news.uni-berlin.de>

Mark Hahn wrote:
> The advantage of prefix symbols that Ruby and Prothon use right now is that
> the compiler and the program reader don't have to scan the code at all to
> see what scope the var belongs to.  When you see the & you know it's in the
> surrounding function,

Hang on a minute. Do you literally mean the immediately
surrounding function, and not one further out? In

   def f():
     def g():
       def h():
         &x = 42
       h()
     g()
     print x

does the &x in h refer to the x in f? If it does, then I
don't see how you can deduce that in a single pass. If it
doesn't, then how do you refer to the x in f from h?

-- 
Greg Ewing, Computer Science Dept,
University of Canterbury,	
Christchurch, New Zealand
http://www.cosc.canterbury.ac.nz/~greg



From jacek.generowicz at cern.ch  Thu Apr  1 03:38:30 2004
From: jacek.generowicz at cern.ch (Jacek Generowicz)
Date: 01 Apr 2004 10:38:30 +0200
Subject: [OT] Top posting is a PITA [was : Prothon Prototypes vs Python
	Classes]
References: <569c605ld1cj8fc1emolk08ete0s1prls1@4ax.com>
	<v0r9c.38988$cx5.22021@fed1read04>
	<106di86neu1qh4d@news.supernews.com>
	<AHF9c.49048$cx5.33872@fed1read04> <c4akqh$gml$1@panix2.panix.com>
	<Sz8ac.68272$cx5.62681@fed1read04>
	<mailman.115.1080652873.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<4069a001$0$4237$afc38c87@news.easynet.co.uk>
	<4069e9d9$0$8915$636a15ce@news.free.fr>
	<406a98ee$0$290$edfadb0f@dread12.news.tele.dk>
	<mailman.166.1080729074.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<mpjl60hsp95qo5evu620t6kj1u0auplb68@4ax.com>
	<zyFac.57608$1A6.1296027@news20.bellglobal.com>
Message-ID: <tyfr7v814ah.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>

Markus Wankus <markus_wankusGETRIDOFALLCAPS at hotmail.com> writes:

> Right.  So if we'd all just settle on top-posting things wouldn't be
> so bad after all.  It's all you bottom-posters that are screwing
> things up for the rest of us. ;o)

Did you actually _understand_ what he wrote?  Yes, I did notice the
smiley, but I also noticed the apparent complete failure to get the
point. Complete failure to get the point, I find, is often strongly
correlated to top-posting.

Even if _everyone_ top-posts, then the reading direction is still
inconsisitent and requires the reader to jump back and-forth, to
understand what is going on.

Please _think_ about it. It really doesn't take very much thought to
understand that top-posting sucks, but it does require some. More than
top-posters seem to be able to muster, it seems.


From dmq at gain.com  Wed Apr 28 21:07:31 2004
From: dmq at gain.com (David MacQuigg)
Date: Wed, 28 Apr 2004 18:07:31 -0700
Subject: Is classless worth consideration
Message-ID: <g9k090lhocd1nbd7g230br6ooub113hjt6@4ax.com>

On 27 Apr 2004 16:34:56 -0700, has.temp2 at virgin.net (has) wrote:

>David MacQuigg <dmq at gain.com> wrote in message news:<bniq80hiib0gauiltuntk9jvia2getbnj4 at 4ax.com>...
>
>> Example of Simplified Classes ( Prototypes )
>> ============================================
>
>[SNIP]
>
>Class-based OOP by any other name. But then, I've pointed this out
>already. See Emperor, clothes; lack of.
>
>Here; while I don't claim them to be paragons of programming, I
>suggest taking a look at my old AppleScript libraries at
><http://applemods.sourceforge.net/>. (Note: scripts are compiled, so
>you'll need a Mac to view source.) See Types, HTMLTemplate and ASTest
>for examples of OO programming that isn't class-fixated. Might lend
>some useful perspective.

The problem we Python programmers are having is understanding the
fundamental advantage of eliminating classes and working only with
instances.  The theoretical discussions put me to sleep.  I can't see
the point of the examples above.  What we need is a simple use case.

I've included the ability to clone one instance from another in my
"Python 3" proposal
http://ece.arizona.edu/~edatools/Python/PrototypeSyntax.htm 
This will allow the user to completely ignore classes, and just make
one instance from another, then another, and so on, modifying each
instance along the way, whenever the urge is felt.

Here is what I have so far in the Pros and Cons on this feature:

Pro:  Allows "on-the-fly" programming style with no classes.
Con:  Can lead to more undisciplined programming.

Perhaps you can help us here.

-- Dave



From peter at engcorp.com  Tue Apr 13 08:39:02 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2004 08:39:02 -0400
Subject: How to kill a SocketServer?
In-Reply-To: <c5g4qc$hru$1@news.service.uci.edu>
References: <c5e6k3$jf4$1@newshispeed.ch> <c5epfl$67h$1@news.service.uci.edu>
	<c5esrr$ii$1@newshispeed.ch> <c5g4qc$hru$1@news.service.uci.edu>
Message-ID: <6tadnU3-4_n7QubdRVn-tw@powergate.ca>

Josiah Carlson wrote:

>> Since the whole application uses much CPU power, the performance (esp. 
>> the
>> reaction time) of an asynchronous server is too low.
>>
>> We found out that a threading server is much the better choise for 
>> this, but
>> we'd need a way to stop a server and start it again (wich new 
>> parameters).
> 
> 
> That is very interesting.
> 
> After doing some research into heavily multi-threaded servers in Python 
> a few years back, I discovered that for raw throughput, a properly 
> written async server could do far better than a threaded one.
> 
> If your request processing takes the most time, you may consider a 
> communication thread and a processing thread.
> 
> If your processing thread does a lot of waiting on a database or 
> something else, it may make sense to have one communication thread, and 
> a handful of database query threads.
> 
> What part of a request takes up the most time?

The OP indicated that "esp. the reaction time" was his concern, not
throughput.  If he's right about that, then in principal he could well
be right that an async server would not be the most appropriate.
(I don't really believe that either, though...)

-Peter


From erik at heneryd.com  Tue Apr  6 04:29:11 2004
From: erik at heneryd.com (Erik Heneryd)
Date: Tue, 06 Apr 2004 10:29:11 +0200
Subject: slightly OT: BUT NEEDs to be said
In-Reply-To: <4078daf265c69e9353e8af72542da703@dizum.com>
References: <4078daf265c69e9353e8af72542da703@dizum.com>
Message-ID: <40726A57.4040906@heneryd.com>

Nomen Nescio wrote:
> Hi I downloaded this document about Python recently:
> 
> http://datamining.anu.edu.au/~ole/publications/python.pdf
> 
> I loved the cute little Snake graphic.
> 

FYI: That's not a Python snake, but a Pythonware one (notice the white x 
on blue) and probably used without the artists (Joakim L?w) knowledge.

/Erik Heneryd
(formerly at Pythonware/Secret Labs)



From ville at spammers.com  Thu Apr  1 09:42:14 2004
From: ville at spammers.com (Ville Vainio)
Date: 01 Apr 2004 17:42:14 +0300
Subject: ANNOUNCE: 'goto' for Python
References: <mailman.210.1080803438.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<c4gk3c$hfb$1@swifty.westend.com>
Message-ID: <du7lllfkbeh.fsf@mozart.cc.tut.fi>


That's mostly true. I'm the first to admit that occasionally a
predictable and dull language is useful, but there is a lot of virtue
in being to express yourself with the language, and give a personal
touch to all the code you write. The code I write should scream that
"this is by Ville down the hall!". The idiosynchracies (sp?) in our
code leave a lasting mark for the generations to come, show off the
proficiency we have been able to acquire in the language (and thus
make the monthly salary easy to calculate), and make us who we are.

-- 
Ville Vainio   http://tinyurl.com/2prnb


>>>>> "Peter" == Peter Maas <fpetermaas at netscape.net> writes:

    Peter> Great!!! This will enhance Python's yet poor capabilities
    Peter> to write code with a behaviour hard to predict by
    Peter> programmers thereby adding a human touch to the sometimes
    Peter> too clean and dull Python language!























(Wow, this top posting seems like lots of fun!)


From __peter__ at web.de  Tue Apr 13 14:37:37 2004
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2004 20:37:37 +0200
Subject: Adding properties to objects
References: <3a8e83d2.0404130906.2ea796e9@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <c5hc1h$g4f$01$1@news.t-online.com>

Matthew Barnes wrote:

> Is it possible to add properties to objects dynamically?
> 
> I have an instance (x) of some new-style class (Foo), and I would like
> to be able to do something like:
> 
>>>> x = Foo()
>>>> x.myproperty = property(getsomething, setsomething, delsomething);
>>>> x.myproperty        # invokes getsomething
>>>> x.myproperty = 1    # invokes setsomething
>>>> del x.myproperty    # invokes delsomething
> 
> However, when I evaluate x.myproperty I get back a property object
> (which makes sense).  I get the feeling I'm missing a step to "bind"
> the property object to the class instance.
> 
> Is this possible (it's Python... of course it's possible, right?), and
> if so, how?

Fresh from the mad coders' department, here's how to dynamically change an
object's class to get the desired effect:

import new
class Foo(object):
    def __setattr__(self, name, value):
        if isinstance(value, property):
            klass = new.classobj(self.__class__.__name__, (self.__class__,),
{})
            setattr(klass, name, value)
            self.__class__ = klass
        else:
            object.__setattr__(self, name, value)


f1 = Foo()
f1.name = "first"

def set1(self, v):
    self.name = v[1:-1]
def get1(self):
    return "(%s)" % self.name
f1.prp = property(get1, set1)

f2 = Foo()
f2.name = "second"

def set2(self, v):
    self.name = v[2:-2]
def get2(self):
    return "<<%s>>" % self.name
f2.prp = property(get2, set2)

print f1.prp, f2.prp
f2.prp = "((was second))"
print f1.prp, f2.prp
f2.__class__.prp = f1.__class__.prp
print f1.prp, f2.prp


If you try the above approach, you will of course end up with more classes
than instances - if you only expect a limited number of dynamic properties
you could put all combinations into a class cache.

:-)

Peter



From gerrit at nl.linux.org  Tue Apr 20 06:57:47 2004
From: gerrit at nl.linux.org (Gerrit)
Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 12:57:47 +0200
Subject: CamelCase versus wide_names (Prothon)
In-Reply-To: <i93hc.13733$dZ1.8818@fed1read04>
References: <UHxfc.9323$dZ1.3740@fed1read04>
	<6ee58e07.0404192141.2229efd6@posting.google.com>
	<c62e05$6oraj$1@ID-99293.news.uni-berlin.de>
	<i93hc.13733$dZ1.8818@fed1read04>
Message-ID: <20040420105747.GA17588@nl.linux.org>

Mark Hahn wrote:
> "William Park" <opengeometry at yahoo.ca> wrote ...
> 
> Someone else already mentioned this
> > > problem:
> > >
> > >    smtp_message <-> SMTPMessage <-> SmtpMessage
> 
> If you consider the capital letter as just a replacement for the underbar,
> then the answer is definitely smtpMessage.  I don't see any problem.

SMTP is an acronym. Because it's an acronym, it's most often spelled in
allcaps. A problem with capitalizing names by default, is that
capitalization loses a function it has in written language. Further, I
like to use capitalization naming for giving different cased names to
instances, Classes, VeryLongClassNames or CONSTANTS. But I don't think
the language should fiddle with capitalization itself. Moreover, I like
a case-insensitive language.

I find smtpMessage quite ugly to read. I find every name with caps in
the middle but no caps at the start ugly to read - I think it's called
mixedCase. I prefer lower_case_with_underscores.

I haven't followed the Prothon capitalization naming convention in
detail. But in my opinion, a multi-word name should read as a multi word
name. Underscores serve better to do so than capitalization does.

Gerrit.

-- 
Weather in Twenthe, Netherlands 20/04 12:25:
	12.0?C Scattered clouds partly cloudy wind 4.0 m/s SSW (57 m above NAP)
-- 
Experiences with Asperger's Syndrome:
	EN http://topjaklont.student.utwente.nl/english/
	NL http://topjaklont.student.utwente.nl/



From jcarlson at uci.edu  Mon Apr 12 14:43:58 2004
From: jcarlson at uci.edu (Josiah Carlson)
Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2004 11:43:58 -0700
Subject: maximum length of a list & tuple
In-Reply-To: <AtKdnTLAMJ2K5ufdRVn-vw@powergate.ca>
References: <c54lq3$2pe1sf$1@ID-202776.news.uni-berlin.de>
	<bvednZaKK7OybejdRVn-iQ@centurytel.net>
	<c55okv$2o3eql$1@ID-202776.news.uni-berlin.de>
	<c59igu$hto$1@news.service.uci.edu>
	<hlhh70drqg7fhvn9e3keosdvdp01ulok7r@4ax.com>
	<c5avps$qh$1@news.service.uci.edu>
	<LKWdnSm0Fq4VZuTdRVn-ug@powergate.ca>
	<c5d7e1$iib$1@news.service.uci.edu>
	<AtKdnTLAMJ2K5ufdRVn-vw@powergate.ca>
Message-ID: <c5eo7u$51l$1@news.service.uci.edu>

>> You can't just store the integer.  How would you differentiate between 
>> an integer in a list and a pointer?  Answer: you must use 
>> PyIntObjects.  Use the source.
> 
> 
> Python does not recognize anything called "pointers" at the language
> level, only internally.
> 
> What I was saying is that the only PyIntObject created was one with
> the ob_ival of 1.  Then a list containing one pointer to it was
> created.  Then it was replicated "c" times.  Only one integer.

Yeah, I was thinking of the case in generating a sequence of integers 
via range.  In that case, range(N) produces 12-byte intobjects and 4 
byte pointers.  In the case of c*[1), indeed you are right, one object 
gets created, and some c pointers to that object are generated for the list.

Seems I got off topic and we are both right.

  - Josiah


From pwatson at redlinepy.com  Sat Apr  3 21:58:14 2004
From: pwatson at redlinepy.com (Paul Watson)
Date: Sat, 3 Apr 2004 20:58:14 -0600
Subject: Typing \n in strings
References: <RGKbc.11130$yN6.10939@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <406f79ca$1_1@themost.net>

"Edward Diener" <eldiener at earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:RGKbc.11130$yN6.10939 at newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net...
> Python 2.3.3 on Win2K. In the Python tutorial it says that typing \n in
> string literals is the new-line character. I open the interpreter and type
a
> string with a \n in it but instead of outputting a string with a new line,
> it outputs the \n as literal characters of the string. Is the tutorial
> wrong, is the interpreter broken, or what is happening ?
>

What exactly are you entering and what is output?

Python 2.3.3 (#51, Dec 18 2003, 20:22:39) [MSC v.1200 32 bit (Intel)] on
win32
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> "now\nis\nthe\ntime"
'now\nis\nthe\ntime'
>>> print "now\nis\nthe\ntime"
now
is
the
time
>>> s = 'now\nis\nthe\ntime'
>>> s
'now\nis\nthe\ntime'
>>> print s
now
is
the
time




From alexanro at stud.ntnu.no  Wed Apr 14 12:41:46 2004
From: alexanro at stud.ntnu.no (Alexander Rødseth)
Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2004 18:41:46 +0200
Subject: Pygame
References: <c5jdv2$s4$1@orkan.itea.ntnu.no>
	<107qkrbhnjpmh9b@news.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <c5jpkb$6th$1@orkan.itea.ntnu.no>

> Why should it be?

Because it's inconsistent that Python includes many platform-specific and
hardware-specific modules,
and even gui-modules like Tkinter, but, afaik, no way at all to create
fullscreen and/or hw-accelerated graphics.


> In looking thorough the libarary, I find that
> everything there is a developer tool of some
> sort. The few executables are things like
> unittest which are standard parts of the
> developer's tool chain.

I agree pretty much with Peter's reply.
How exactly did you "look through the library"?
Looking at http://docs.python.org/modindex.html, I find modules for sound,
xml, graphics, mail, a web-server and even the deprecated and insecure
"Enigma-like encryption and decryption". :-)

Python is supposed to be "batteries included", but still hasn't got native
support for fullscreen graphics.

Granted, Pygame might not be the optimal solution, due to licensing issues
(or whatever other reason might appeal to you), but IMHO, there should be a
module included that allowed for similar functionality.

- Alexander




From stjahn at gmx.de  Tue Apr 13 16:47:51 2004
From: stjahn at gmx.de (Steffen Jahn)
Date: 13 Apr 2004 13:47:51 -0700
Subject: Import / export values to/from C program
Message-ID: <a5f85bbf.0404131247.1047a7d2@posting.google.com>

Hi,

I stumbled across Python when trying to invoke *scripts* from C programs. The 
idea is to set up some variables in the C program, export them, run a Python 
script, and, after completion, import some variables back into the C program.
This way, I can keep the C program very flexible for certain types of changes.

Unfortunately, I can't see an API to export/import an PyObject directly. 
I see currently only an indirect way: Implement import and export functions
in C which have to be called in the Python script (import function at 
beginning and export function at end). Though I would prefer a *direct* access.

At the moment, I start thinking whether direct access is really better since
the script needs anyways to *know* of the variables which are available (makes
not much difference whether variable or function...)

Anyways, maybe somebody can tell me if such direct access is possible. A kick 
in the right direction would be highly appreciated.

Thx, Steffen


From usenet at datahansa.com  Thu Apr 15 01:56:37 2004
From: usenet at datahansa.com (Oleg Paraschenko)
Date: 14 Apr 2004 22:56:37 -0700
Subject: Python GUI wrapper for a long operation
Message-ID: <de21d442.0404142156.2b9f7ef0@posting.google.com>

Hello,

maybe of some interest:

A complete Python Tkinter sample application for a long operation
http://uucode.com/texts/pylongopgui/pyguiapp.html

A complete Python Tkinter application demonstrates one of the ways
to implement a GUI wrapper for a long operation. The long operation
works in a separated thread without frozing a GUI. A progress bar
visializes a progress in calculations. A notification widget displays
log messages. User can cancel the operation. Log messages are stored
in a viewable history buffer.

Regards, Oleg


From deetsNOSPAM at web.de  Mon Apr 19 11:51:53 2004
From: deetsNOSPAM at web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Mon, 19 Apr 2004 17:51:53 +0200
Subject: Problems using modulo
References: <d698d3e7.0404190731.3dcb89d2@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <c60t0u$6pbai$1@ID-111250.news.uni-berlin.de>

Griff wrote:

> 
> Would be grateful for any suggestions

Try this:

t = 5.9
interval = 2.0

while t < 6.1:
    print (t, interval, t % interval)
    t+=0.1

Then you see what actually gets divided.... 
I'm not sure what you actually try to do, but AFAIK modulo is mathematically
only properly defined on integers - so you should stick to them. If you
need fractions, it might be sufficient to use fixed-point arithmetics by
simply multiplying by 10 ar 100.

-- 
Regards,

Diez B. Roggisch


From no.email at please.com  Tue Apr 13 12:45:35 2004
From: no.email at please.com (Stevie_mac)
Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2004 17:45:35 +0100
Subject: Python crashes - cannot pin it down!
References: <qDUec.75076$Id.1355@news-binary.blueyonder.co.uk>
Message-ID: <wOUec.75097$Id.17610@news-binary.blueyonder.co.uk>

Nearly forgot...

PythonWin 2.3.3 (#51, Dec 18 2003, 20:22:39) [MSC v.1200 32 bit (Intel)] on win32.
wxPython 2.4.2.4
WINXP SP1
BOA 0.28




From mogmios at mlug.missouri.edu  Mon Apr 26 03:19:18 2004
From: mogmios at mlug.missouri.edu (Michael)
Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2004 00:19:18 -0700
Subject: How's ruby compare to it older brother python
In-Reply-To: <c6ich0$c5mee$1@ID-205437.news.uni-berlin.de>
References: <c6ich0$c5mee$1@ID-205437.news.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <408CB7F6.6070509@mlug.missouri.edu>


>in term of its OO features, syntax consistencies, ease of use, and their
>development progress. I have not use python but heard about it quite often;
>and ruby, is it mature enough to be use for developing serious application,
>e.g web application as it has not many features in it yet.
>
>I've given up on Perl for its ugly syntax and it is not the easiest language
>to learn. How about PHP?
>
IMO Ruby is closer to Perl than Python as far as clearness of it's 
syntax. I really like Python better. PHP isn't as garbled as Perl but it 
isn't as flexible either and it's still not nearly as clean as Python. 
Of the four languages (Perl, Python, PHP, and Ruby) I find Python the 
easiest to work in. I use Python for command-line programming, web 
programming (mod_python), and GUI programming (wxPython and Pygame) and 
find it a good general purpose language.



From claird at lairds.com  Thu Apr  1 07:50:08 2004
From: claird at lairds.com (Cameron Laird)
Date: Thu, 01 Apr 2004 12:50:08 -0000
Subject: Python from the command line (was: Choosing Perl/Python for my 
 particular niche)
References: <40652B0D.7C313F77@doe.carleton.ca>
	<4069F1FD.601C9079@doe.carleton.ca>
	<106n8kj2t5n7m11@corp.supernews.com>
	<406BB6C4.7F3ADD4@doe.carleton.ca>
Message-ID: <106o400l16eub3f@corp.supernews.com>

In article <406BB6C4.7F3ADD4 at doe.carleton.ca>,
Fred Ma  <fma at doe.carleton.ca> wrote:
			.
			.
			.
>I've put in a request to my sysadmin to install python.  The
>way to get hooked on it is to start small, with mundane tasks
>(same as with any new shell, I suppose).  If it doesn't get
>installed due to lack of priority, I can always get it
>bundled with my next cygwin update.  Cygwin is an absolute
>blessing.  Everything comes prebuilt (lots of stuff) and
>you have superuser priveleges, as well as simultaneous
>access to Windows.  Just as long as your HDD isn't FAT
>(that prevents chmod from working).
			.
			.
			.

Oh!  Apparently Win* is the platform of interest; that
hadn't occurred to me.

There's a LOT to say specifically on the topic of Python-
for-Windows-system-administration.  You might want to
start with Mark Hammond's book.

I'm no great fan of CYGWIN for my own use, although I
certainly recognize it's been historically important.
It occurs to me that perhaps we haven't made adequately
clear how easy it is to install native Python on Windows.
It should take less time doing it than talking about do-
ing it.  I'm not arguing with your approach; I just want
to ensure we've been clear about the alternatives.

Follow-ups narrowed.
-- 

Cameron Laird <claird at phaseit.net>
Business:  http://www.Phaseit.net


From scrutinizer at gmx.at  Wed Apr  7 04:39:07 2004
From: scrutinizer at gmx.at (Francesco)
Date: Wed, 07 Apr 2004 10:39:07 +0200
Subject: Python Filemanager and Shell Context Menu
References: <bta0705aci1h5apnkpqs7n1uhvmulcbo5s@4ax.com>
	<87oeq4211c.fsf@pobox.com>
Message-ID: <ldf770lq3in2nmh2lantn1dr9m8vld5orq@4ax.com>

On 06 Apr 2004 23:29:19 +0100, jjl at pobox.com (John J. Lee) wrote:

>Francesco <scrutinizer at gmx.at> writes:
>
>> Hello Pythonnian's
>> 
>[...]
>> I have no idea, how to accomplish this.
>> For what I can imagine:
>> Either use ctypes and the kernel or shell dll, or win32 extensions.
>> 
>> Have someone done such a task before?
>> Can someone help me?
>[...]
>
Hello John,

>There's a good O'Reilly book about this, which certainly covers what
>you want:
>
>"Visual Basic Shell Programming", J.P. Hamilton
>
>
>I used that book to write a trivial IE plugin that I posted to the
>ctypes mailing list -- not directly relevant, but may set you on the
>right track (it shows how to implement COM interfaces that aren't
>defined in any type library).

interesting, I will take a look.

>
>Generally, for all this Windows shell programming, you implement some
>COM interfaces, and then set up set up some registry keys to tell
>Windows what you've done.  The book tells you which interfaces and
>which keys you need, documents some bugs and oddities and gives some
>example code.  You just have to translate the VB code to Python+ctypes
>(which is not necessarily an entirely hitch-free process ;-).
>Obviously, there's no Python-specific info in the book.
>

thank you for your explanation.

best regards,
-- 
Francesco


From rogerb at rogerbinns.com  Thu Apr  1 12:13:11 2004
From: rogerb at rogerbinns.com (Roger Binns)
Date: Thu, 1 Apr 2004 09:13:11 -0800
Subject: xmlrpc, httplib and SSL (HTTP 1.1 XMLRPC client)
References: <f1bfj1-3s.ln1@home.rogerbinns.com>
	<mailman.221.1080820488.20120.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <56vtj1-2rp.ln1@home.rogerbinns.com>

> I wanted to do keep the connections on which my clients do XMLRPC calls
> open, and after staring at the xmlrpclib.py source for a while, came up
> with the class at the bottom of the message.

Are you sure you are actually getting persistent connections?  The
code will auto-close and auto-open the connection even just keeping
the same HTTP connection object.

In order for the connection to not be auto-closed, the remote end
must return a HTTP/1.1 response (see httplib.HTTPResponse._check_close).

If your server end is Python, then it will always close the connection
unless the request was HTTP/1.1 *and* a 'Connection: keep-alive' header
was sent, which the Python client does not do.

The above is all true for Python 2.3.  For 2.2 it does HTTP/1.0 IIRC
so you have no hope.

Roger




From Scott.Daniels at Acm.Org  Mon Apr  5 18:04:00 2004
From: Scott.Daniels at Acm.Org (Scott David Daniels)
Date: Mon, 05 Apr 2004 15:04:00 -0700
Subject: Newbie need help
In-Reply-To: <Xns94C28DD6E543AHelp..recipe.4.9.in.@130.139.56.200>
References: <Xns94C26A85EAAC4Help..recipe.4.9.in.@130.139.56.200>
	<1072gkc3e3oif19@corp.supernews.com>
	<Xns94C288EB67E9DHelp..recipe.4.9.in.@130.139.56.200>
	<Xns94C28DD6E543AHelp..recipe.4.9.in.@130.139.56.200>
Message-ID: <4071dec1$1@nntp0.pdx.net>

Tony Ha wrote:
> ... instead of
>os.chdir("C:\Python23\Lib\site-packages\PythonCardPrototype\tools")
>you need
>os.chdir("C:\\Python23\\Lib\\site-packages\\PythonCardPrototype\\tools\\codeEditor") 

> I also found out you can you u' raw string. i.e.
>  os.chdir(u'C:\Python23\Lib\site-packages\PythonCardPrototype')
> this also work.
Nope, you just lucked out by using a different string.

the problem with using a backslash is that it normally an instruction to
the source translator to construct special characters.  Because your
previous directory name included tools, you had a sequence with a
backslash followed by a lower case t.  That is shorthand for a tab
(ASCII 9).  As Peter Hansen tells you in another note, you can use
an r directly before the string to tell the source translator to
"treat backslashes as regular characters."  So, you'll notice that,
for example, 'abc\tex' != r'abc\tex', but 'abc\Tex' == r'abc\Tex', 
because '\t' is the tab character, not '\T'.



-- 
-Scott David Daniels
Scott.Daniels at Acm.Org


From andymac at bullseye.apana.org.au  Tue Apr  6 08:02:49 2004
From: andymac at bullseye.apana.org.au (Andrew MacIntyre)
Date: Tue, 6 Apr 2004 22:02:49 +1000 (EST)
Subject: Using python23 to develop an extension for an application that
 has python22 embedded
In-Reply-To: <o2g3709fpgp50sn561h0vf5e2dd6hcuo7g@4ax.com>
References: <aoa370h2r58lgb00jn9o1nfpg2titdgoss@4ax.com>
	<1073eeubflmchd5@corp.supernews.com>
	<o2g3709fpgp50sn561h0vf5e2dd6hcuo7g@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <20040406214820.L97937@bullseye.apana.org.au>

On Mon, 5 Apr 2004, John Underwood wrote:

> Since I do have python23.dll and python23_d.dll (from a successful
> build of 2.3), can I use these to develop an extension for the
> aforementioned commercial application if I stay away from any new
> features in 2.3 (but not in 2.2)?

You can do the development, but you won't be able to directly distribute
the resulting extension because it will have been linked with python23.dll
when it needs to be linked with python22.dll.

To make things easier to fudge later, you make sure that your extension is
Distutils'ified from the beginning.

You can then use another compiler supported by the Distutils (MS CL
non-optimising compiler, MinGW, Borland etc) to build the distributable
extension in either a Python 2.2 or 2.3 installation, without risking
mixing C runtime library mismatches (VS.NET uses a different CRT than
VS6 I understand).  If using a 2.3 installation, you'll need to substitute
a 2.2 import library when building the final distributable version.

The Distutils setup.py script can then provide the installation harness.

--
Andrew I MacIntyre                     "These thoughts are mine alone..."
E-mail: andymac at bullseye.apana.org.au  (pref) | Snail: PO Box 370
        andymac at pcug.org.au             (alt) |        Belconnen  ACT  2616
Web:    http://www.andymac.org/               |        Australia



From mwilson at the-wire.com  Fri Apr 23 15:52:30 2004
From: mwilson at the-wire.com (Mel Wilson)
Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2004 15:52:30 -0400
Subject: Why we will use obj$func() often
References: <d2Uhc.22272$dZ1.1600@fed1read04> <84Uhc.22278$dZ1.5087@fed1read04>
	<mailman.927.1082665370.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<8AWhc.23114$dZ1.11070@fed1read04>
	<mailman.939.1082697809.20120.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <+PXiAls/Kj/Q089yn@the-wire.com>

In article <mailman.939.1082697809.20120.python-list at python.org>,
"Mike C. Fletcher" <mcfletch at rogers.com> wrote:
>Mark Hahn wrote:
>>My inability to understand this stuff is what drove me to do Prothon <grin>.
>>All the hidden wrapped this and wrapped that confused me to no end.

>Fascinating.  Most users never even notice this stuff, let alone getting
>so worked up about it that they start a whole separate language ;) .
>After all, they don't generally even know that metaclasses *exist* and
>just know that it all works exactly as they would expect.  You for
>instance, were describing how the interpreter just knows that a class
>can't be the target of an unbound class method.  Sure, *maybe* it's all
>a hideously complex mess that has people running screaming from Python
>in horror, but from where I sit it is an extremely elegant system that
>most people use without any impedance mismatch at all.

I perhaps encountered this..

    connection = serial.Serial ( ... )
        # connection is a file-like object,
        # having the usual `write` method

    engine = MyFiniteStateMachine ()
        # engine happens to have a `writer` method that
        # funnels out the machines products
        # The default is effectively `def writer (self, s): print s`

    engine.writer = connection.write
        # we channel engine's output through the serial connection

   Plugged together, it just works, as Mike says.  No
trouble when engine's internal calls to `self.writer` end up
accessing a completely different object's method.  It's only
lately that I've stopped to gawp at it, and wonder.

        Regards.        Mel.


From apocalypznow at yahoo.com  Wed Apr  7 04:52:13 2004
From: apocalypznow at yahoo.com (jason willows)
Date: Wed, 07 Apr 2004 08:52:13 GMT
Subject: Obfuscator, EXE, etc. - a solution
Message-ID: <1jPcc.41986$oR5.1890@pd7tw3no>

There have been many many many many discussions about obfuscating 
python.  To my dismay, most who answer are those who frequently post, 
and they say things such as:
1) what's the point, in theory anything could eventually be decompiled
2) python is used for mostly internal stuff anyway, cuz its a "glue" 
language, so why bother
3) use licensing and a good lawyer, it's the ONLY way
4) many programmers seem comfortable releasing their java and .net and 
other interpreted code products into the market, so why not you?

I found most of these comments dismissive, and sometimes quite arrogant. 
  Frankly, the reasons why anyone would want to protect their code is 
simple and should be observed because we are all programmers: we want to 
protect our hard work.

Addressing the above points:
1) Anything could eventually be decompiled.... yes that's true.  In a 
perfect world.  Have you ever tried to decompile C code and make sense 
of it?  Try a large C program.  Good luck, you philosophers.
2) I don't see Python as merely a glue language.  I see it as a serious 
language for serious applications.  Indeed, there are many commercial 
examples of this, and Python works very well and is cost-efficient to 
use.  Incidentally, IBM and Microsoft have adopted Python for various 
applications.... not that in itself should necessarily mean anything.
3) Using licensing and a good lawyer.  I'm all for that!  Now your code 
has been stolen... and you are going to hire a lawyer to fight it out in 
  court.  Months go by, maybe into years.  The law offers no guarantees, 
except to law makers.  You've mortgaged your house to protect your 
investment.  If you win.
4) Others release their java and .net programs.  Many obfuscate their 
code before doing so, for the very same reasons a Python programmer 
would want to do so.

I'm sick and tired of intelligent people acting like idiots. 
Programmers should offer solutions, rather than anecdotal discussions 
based on obvious points.

Here's my solution, it's not perfect, but it works well:
Use Pyrex, which translates your python sources (virtually unchanged) to 
.c and then links them.  You get natively compiled .pyd files (ie: dll), 
just as though you had written a C program and compiled & linked it 
yourself.  I used this on all my source files except the one that starts 
my program.  I used py2exe (latest version) on the source file that 
starts my program to create an EXE, and it also puts all my .pyd files 
into the library.zip.  The result is a program that is as difficult to 
understand after decompile as a natively compiled C program, except for 
the beginning source file (which should contain only a very small 
fraction of your program logic anyway).  I have done this on a 
client-side python program that is composed of over 40 .py files and 
from between 200 to 500 lines each file.  It uses the wxPython widgets 
for the GUI, Twisted for client/server communication, Pyro for 
peer-to-peer communication, and the Crypto package for RSA public key 
encryption.  It runs without problems of any kind, especially ones that 
may be related to the GUI or Twisted or Pyro or Crypto, and the increase 
in speed of execution is very obvious.

Note on Pyrex: it can't handle "import *" and this addition construct "x 
+= 1".  So you may have to do a little bit of recoding, but that is all 
the recoding I found that I had to do.

If you would like to discuss this constructively, email me at 
apocalypznow at yahoo.com .  I welcome a good programmer's discussion.





From cedmunds at spamless.rochester.rr.com  Mon Apr 12 18:01:43 2004
From: cedmunds at spamless.rochester.rr.com (Cy Edmunds)
Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2004 22:01:43 GMT
Subject: Missing Console in Pythonwin
Message-ID: <blEec.32176$M3.9711@twister.nyroc.rr.com>

Here's a weird one for you. Running Pythonwin on a Win2000 machine the
console suddenly stopped showing. I can turn it on and off and the checkmark
comes and goes but nothing is visible. I can do a print preview and see it
but that's it.

I uninstalled and reinstalled (upgrading from 3.2.2 to 3.2.3) but still no
luck. Any ideas?

-- 
Cy
http://home.rochester.rr.com/cyhome/




From iv at an.voras.fer  Fri Apr  2 10:01:11 2004
From: iv at an.voras.fer (Ivan Voras)
Date: Fri, 02 Apr 2004 17:01:11 +0200
Subject: Creating a matrix?
Message-ID: <c4jve7$5vr$1@bagan.srce.hr>

Is there a nice(r) way of creating a list of uniform values? I'm currently 
using: list('0'*N), which makes a string and then chops it up into a list. I 
need it to create a NxN matrix:

matrix = [list('0'*N) for i in range(N)]

(elements need to be mutable afterwards, a shallow copy is bad)

While this is short and concise, it also feels odd :)


From richie at entrian.com  Wed Apr  7 05:33:53 2004
From: richie at entrian.com (Richie Hindle)
Date: Wed, 07 Apr 2004 10:33:53 +0100
Subject: what relationship between this mail list and the python group
	on Google? 
In-Reply-To: <4073B147.1010604@tom.com>
References: <4073B147.1010604@tom.com>
Message-ID: <mji770lp5lr1h1vrg2lgavi7otkjohr8g9@4ax.com>


[huzhenghui37]
> what relationship between this mail list and the python group on Google?
> i saw the same info on both

They are the same thing - messages posted to one are mirrored to the other.
You can choose to access the messages either via email or news (and hence
Google Groups) according to your preference.

-- 
Richie Hindle
richie at entrian.com




From FBatista at uniFON.com.ar  Wed Apr  7 10:35:27 2004
From: FBatista at uniFON.com.ar (Batista, Facundo)
Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2004 11:35:27 -0300 
Subject: Are line continuations needed?
Message-ID: <A128D751272CD411BC9200508BC2194D0338384E@escpl.tcp.com.ar>

[wallacethinmintr at eircom.net]
#- Python lets you continue a single logical line across more than one
#- physical line, either by putting a \ at the end or letting it happen
#- automatically with an incomplete infix operator.
#- 
#- I'm wondering how often is this feature needed? Would there be any
#- problems if it weren't part of the language?

The issue is: 

  How important is to remove this feature, considering that it'll break
zillions of lines of code around the world?

.	Facundo





. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
ADVERTENCIA  

La informaci?n contenida en este mensaje y cualquier archivo anexo al mismo,
son para uso exclusivo del destinatario y pueden contener informaci?n
confidencial o propietaria, cuya divulgaci?n es sancionada por la ley. 

Si Ud. No es uno de los destinatarios consignados o la persona responsable
de hacer llegar este mensaje a los destinatarios consignados, no est?
autorizado a divulgar, copiar, distribuir o retener informaci?n (o parte de
ella) contenida en este mensaje. Por favor notif?quenos respondiendo al
remitente, borre el mensaje original y borre las copias (impresas o grabadas
en cualquier medio magn?tico) que pueda haber realizado del mismo. 

Todas las opiniones contenidas en este mail son propias del autor del
mensaje y no necesariamente coinciden con las de Telef?nica Comunicaciones
Personales S.A. o alguna empresa asociada. 

Los mensajes electr?nicos pueden ser alterados, motivo por el cual
Telef?nica Comunicaciones Personales S.A. no aceptar? ninguna obligaci?n
cualquiera sea el resultante de este mensaje. 

Muchas Gracias.
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From andrew-pythonlist at puzzling.org  Wed Apr 21 18:57:33 2004
From: andrew-pythonlist at puzzling.org (Andrew Bennetts)
Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2004 08:57:33 +1000
Subject: Generator inside a class prevent __del__ ??
In-Reply-To: <40866ECD.A45758B9@free.fr>
References: <4085BA96.651D2E4A@free.fr>
	<mailman.819.1082507351.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<40866ECD.A45758B9@free.fr>
Message-ID: <20040421225733.GA10800@frobozz>

On Wed, Apr 21, 2004 at 02:53:33PM +0200, Emmanuel wrote:
> 
> Trouble is, I _would_ like not to care about the lifetime of the object, and I
> don't know where it will be destroyed.

Then don't use __del__.  Python can and will automatically collect cycles
when the objects *don't* define __del__ methods.

Out of curiousity, why are you defining __del__ anyway?

-Andrew.




From taliesin at ananzi.co.za  Wed Apr 14 15:17:46 2004
From: taliesin at ananzi.co.za (Tally)
Date: 14 Apr 2004 12:17:46 -0700
Subject: audio input?
Message-ID: <3fa378e7.0404141117.5e9f0428@posting.google.com>

I am writing a nifty app that plays a series of sinewaves at different
frequencies where they are fed into a simple circuit involving either
an inductor or capacitor of unknown value. Another waveform is read
back in via the Line In of the computer and through various little
tricks my Python program will calculate the inductance or capitance of
the part.

So... I've checked out PySnack, and it doesn't do what I want. Does
anyone know of a clean, simple audio library or wrapper for Python
that is friendly to capturing low-latency audio to memory? It would be
nice if it had functions like RMS power and that kind of thing but I
can always write that myself in C...

Thanks for your time,
Tally


From andymac at bullseye.apana.org.au  Fri Apr 16 19:26:09 2004
From: andymac at bullseye.apana.org.au (Andrew MacIntyre)
Date: Sat, 17 Apr 2004 09:26:09 +1000 (EST)
Subject: Wrapper round x86 Assembler
In-Reply-To: <8089854e.0404160530.5b7c23aa@posting.google.com>
References: <8089854e.0404082353.7bf163a2@posting.google.com>
	<4dKdnQlIXMIXIevdRVn-gg@powergate.ca>
	<8089854e.0404100204.504186a0@posting.google.com>
	<kcWdnaFpw_PvdurdRVn-sA@powergate.ca>
	<8089854e.0404122329.5dfe5ce1@posting.google.com>
	<R9-dnUYH8r32f-bd4p2dnA@powergate.ca>
	<8089854e.0404132323.3283390@posting.google.com>
	<C72dnV4KRqbJreDdRVn-jA@powergate.ca>
	<8089854e.0404141105.37d09320@posting.google.com>
	<c5nn0n$312cv$1@ID-169208.news.uni-berlin.de>
	<8089854e.0404160530.5b7c23aa@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <20040417092307.F89016@bullseye.apana.org.au>

On Fri, 16 Apr 2004, Fuzzyman wrote:

> MinGW seems easy enough to install - I've even compiled example C
> programs with gcc - but getting disutils to use it is another
> matter...

Distutils won't use MinGW by default, as VS6 is the "native" compiler.

You use MinGW by specifying the compiler on the command line with the
"-compiler=mingw" option to the setup script - note that this is from
memory, but there is a page on www.python.org that contains more
information about using MinGW to build extensions.

--
Andrew I MacIntyre                     "These thoughts are mine alone..."
E-mail: andymac at bullseye.apana.org.au  (pref) | Snail: PO Box 370
        andymac at pcug.org.au             (alt) |        Belconnen  ACT  2616
Web:    http://www.andymac.org/               |        Australia



From stach at fr.USUN.pl  Thu Apr 15 17:12:17 2004
From: stach at fr.USUN.pl (Krzysztof Stachlewski)
Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2004 23:12:17 +0200
Subject: newbie question
In-Reply-To: <Xns94CCA389D3DA0plasticnospamplsxsin@216.77.188.18>
References: <Xns94CCA389D3DA0plasticnospamplsxsin@216.77.188.18>
Message-ID: <c5mtsl$dns$2@absinth.dialog.net.pl>

jeff wrote:

> ex:
> 
> a = "text str"
> if a == "text str": print a
> 
> why doesn't that work?  i couldn't find much help about variable types in 
> the manual, does it need a property like a.text?

It works - at least on my computer.
That is: it prints "text str" to the console.
What did you expect it to do?

-- 
Stach   Jabber: stach at jabber atman pl


From bokr at oz.net  Wed Apr 28 21:10:21 2004
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 29 Apr 2004 01:10:21 GMT
Subject: Explanation of Instance Variables in Python
References: <pssv80dmliqnmlihb0eokkgkqhvoji3l7t@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <c6pklt$eo6$0@216.39.172.122>

On Wed, 28 Apr 2004 11:25:08 -0700, David MacQuigg <dmq at gain.com> wrote:

>
>I am writing a chapter for teaching OOP in Python.  This chapter is
>intended as a brief introduction to replace the more complete
>discussion in Learning Python, 2nd ed, pp. 295-390.  I need to explain
>instance variables.
>
>What I'm looking for is the best compromise between brevity and a full
>explanation.  The students are non-CIS technical professionals (
>engineers and scientists ).  At the point they need this explanation,
>they have covered functions and modules, but not classes.  They are
>new to object-oriented programming.  They have just been shown a class
>definition with some data attributes and methods.
>
>The non-CIS background is important, because I can't assume any
>experience with other computer languages.
>
>I would like to hear from users who have a similar background, or
>anyone who has taught such users.  What is your background?  Which of
>the alternatives below do you like or dislike?  Can you think back on
>your own learning experience, and write something better?
>
>Here are some alternatives I have collected:
>
[... snip ...]
>
>=====================================
>
>Thanks for your help on this project.
>
I find well-annotated examples best for understanding something new.
It also gives me working code to play with, to explore variations.
How things break is often as instructive as how they work.

I would suggest you encourage your students to experiment interactively.
E.g., ask who can explain the following, and see what you get, and then
collaborate with them to write sufficient comments to where they feel
they "get it."

 >>> class C(object): pass
 ...
 >>> def f(*args): print 'f was called with', args
 ...
 >>> f('hello')
 f was called with ('hello',)
 >>> c=C()
 >>> c.f('hi')
 Traceback (most recent call last):
   File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
 AttributeError: 'C' object has no attribute 'f'
 >>> c.f = f
 >>> c.f('hi')
 f was called with ('hi',)
 >>> C.f = f
 >>> c.f('greetings')
 f was called with ('greetings',)
 >>> del c.f
 >>> c.f('greetings')
 f was called with (<__main__.C object at 0x00901330>, 'greetings')

MRO can wait a little ;-)

Regards,
Bengt Richter


From HughMacdonald at brokenpipefilms.com  Thu Apr 15 11:34:30 2004
From: HughMacdonald at brokenpipefilms.com (Hugh Macdonald)
Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2004 16:34:30 +0100
Subject: CamelCase versus wide_names (Prothon)
In-Reply-To: <UHxfc.9323$dZ1.3740@fed1read04>
References: <UHxfc.9323$dZ1.3740@fed1read04>
Message-ID: <20040415163430.1ef4419a.HughMacdonald@brokenpipefilms.com>

On Thu, 15 Apr 2004 08:17:08 -0700
"Mark Hahn" <mark at prothon.org> wrote:

> pretend you were picking your standard from
> scratch (as we are doing in the Prothon world) and give your vote for
> which you'd prefer?

I've not really been following Prothon in general, but I'm happy to give my opinion on this....

I think most people use whatever they 'grew up with' (in the programming sense...). I started programming in UnrealScript (Unreal/UnrealTournament coding) and I still use the naming schemes that they used in their code...

camelCaseAllTheWay  (unless I'm extending someone else's code and they've used wide_names)

I also use kinda-hungarian notation, in that all of my boolean (or pseudo-boolean) variables are:

bVariable

(by pseudo-boolean I mean an int acting as a boolean, for example)

When I'm reading code, this makes sense, as I read:

if bTurnedOn:

as

If be turned on:

Anyway, I think the answer that you're looking for from me is camelCaps all the way....


-- 
Hugh Macdonald
The Moving Picture Company



From heikowu at ceosg.de  Tue Apr 27 17:35:05 2004
From: heikowu at ceosg.de (Heiko Wundram)
Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2004 23:35:05 +0200
Subject: Tkinter vs. wxPython?
In-Reply-To: <3Xzjc.459$6A2.9498@nnrp1.ozemail.com.au>
References: <408E9DCA.EC753FE6@shaw.ca>
	<3Xzjc.459$6A2.9498@nnrp1.ozemail.com.au>
Message-ID: <200404272335.05760.heikowu@ceosg.de>

Am Dienstag, 27. April 2004 23:06 schrieb Peter Milliken:
> I haven't remained in touch with
> the wxPython community, but last I heard, that book on wxPython was still
> in the "real soon now" category :-)

There's a german book on GUI Programming with Python, which covers Tkinter, 
wxPython, PyQT and PyGTK+ 2... I actually liked the read, the author creates 
a lightweight contact management program in each of the four, and discusses 
step by step how the functionality is implemented, showing the differences 
between the event handling code in each of the four, etc.

You might wonder how he achieves to go through all four different programming 
environments in a single book, but I think he manages quite well to keep it 
simple and short, and showing relevant links to the available documentation 
where it is needed as a starting-point for further projects.

Anyway, if anybody's interested:

Name: Python und GUI-Toolkits
Author: Michael Lauer
ISBN: 3-8266-0844-5
Publisher: mitp-Verlag
First published in 2002 (I have the first edition, IIRC there's a second 
edition out already)

I can only recommend to have a look at this book if you speak german,learn 
easily from example, and would like to get insight knowledge on 
GUI-Programming with Python...

Heiko.



From peter.maas at mplusr.de  Tue Apr 20 08:19:29 2004
From: peter.maas at mplusr.de (Peter Maas)
Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 14:19:29 +0200
Subject: Dollar sign ($) on foriegn keyboards? (prothon)
In-Reply-To: <c62m70$2hu$06$1@news.t-online.com>
References: <mk3hc.13895$dZ1.10823@fed1read04>
	<c62m70$2hu$06$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <c634cq$dbu$1@swifty.westend.com>

Peter Otten wrote:
> In Germany every serious programmer has to switch to the American
 > layout anyway because of {}[]@\~| (all odd AltGr combinations).

Oh, I didn't know that. Fortunately I'm not a serious programmer. ;)

Mit freundlichen Gruessen,

Peter Maas

-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Peter Maas, M+R Infosysteme, D-52070 Aachen, Hubert-Wienen-Str. 24
Tel +49-241-93878-0 Fax +49-241-93878-20 eMail peter.maas at mplusr.de
-------------------------------------------------------------------


From joe at notcharles.ca  Sat Apr 17 02:02:16 2004
From: joe at notcharles.ca (Joe Mason)
Date: Sat, 17 Apr 2004 06:02:16 GMT
Subject: AOP use cases
References: <84fc4588.0404140106.3fa0c55@posting.google.com>
	<slrnc7q1ss.1aa.alf@largo.fayauffre.org>
	<cb035744.0404141130.170f51c4@posting.google.com>
	<slrnc7sgat.vp.alf@largo.fayauffre.org>
	<cb035744.0404160442.2f0b1661@posting.google.com>
	<0pydnSB4WYuieuLdRVn-hQ@powergate.ca>
	<35qdnT4kNsX1kB3dRVn-gg@powergate.ca>
Message-ID: <slrnc81i28.fm2.joe@gate.notcharles.ca>

In article <35qdnT4kNsX1kB3dRVn-gg at powergate.ca>, Peter Hansen wrote:
> The logging example is okay, yes, but another problem I have
> with it is that it's very development-oriented.  It doesn't
> do anything directly for the user in terms of helping implement
> user functionality.  Same goes for the contract aspect, which

It does if generating usage reports is a user requirement.  Call logging
in a telephony app, for instance.

Joe


From andrew.henshaw at gtri.gatech.edu  Fri Apr  2 16:05:46 2004
From: andrew.henshaw at gtri.gatech.edu (Andrew Henshaw)
Date: Fri, 2 Apr 2004 21:05:46 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Making the Zen of Python more useful
References: <mailman.284.1080928147.20120.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <c4kkja$l7r$1@news-int.gatech.edu>

In article <mailman.284.1080928147.20120.python-list at python.org>, 
n3613 at klaff.org says...
>
>
>from this import s
>s.decode('rot13')
>
Thanks for the response.  Unfortunately, this still has the (generally 
desired) behavior of the text being printed to stdout.  For the less general 
case of using the text to feed some test code, I don't think that is best.  
Unfortunately, I can't think of a way to accomplish both by simply modifying 
the 'this' module (for future releases).  Adding another module would do it; 
but, I was hoping someone could suggest a better way.  

-- 
Andy



From try_vanevery_at_mycompanyname at yahoo.com  Mon Apr 26 18:02:16 2004
From: try_vanevery_at_mycompanyname at yahoo.com (Brandon J. Van Every)
Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2004 15:02:16 -0700
Subject: How's ruby compare to it older brother python
References: <c6ich0$c5mee$1@ID-205437.news.uni-berlin.de>
	<c6jg7404m@enews4.newsguy.com> <108qk9dft7h7o52@corp.supernews.com>
	<c6jmhh$cr0r2$1@ID-207230.news.uni-berlin.de>
	<c6jqtu02crp@enews2.newsguy.com>
Message-ID: <c6k0c7$cnk9v$1@ID-207230.news.uni-berlin.de>

Phil Tomson wrote:
> In article <c6jmhh$cr0r2$1 at ID-207230.news.uni-berlin.de>,
> Brandon J. Van Every wrote:
>>
>> You need a filter of some kind for cutting down the options.  I
>> suggest asking people, and seeing what languages actually got used
>> for jobs relevant to your software problem / industry.
>
> It seems as though he has already done this.

He may very well have... I'm late to the thread.  Consider it embedded
advice for anyone *other* than him who may be reading, now or in the future.

-- 
Cheers,                     www.indiegamedesign.com
Brandon Van Every           Seattle, WA

"Trollhunter" - (n.) A person who habitually accuses
people of being Trolls.



From jcarlson at uci.edu  Sun Apr  4 14:40:43 2004
From: jcarlson at uci.edu (Josiah Carlson)
Date: Sun, 04 Apr 2004 11:40:43 -0700
Subject: Recursively expand all branches ox wxTreeCtrl
In-Reply-To: <39cbe663.0404032353.6944c9fe@posting.google.com>
References: <39cbe663.0404032353.6944c9fe@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <c4pl1i$4nn$1@news.service.uci.edu>

Try the following modifications...

     def OnPopup1(self,event):
         item = self.Tree.GetSelection()
         self.parent.msgbox(self,self.Tree.GetItemText(item),"Kein 
Titel",wxOK)
         #self.Tree.Expand(item)
*       self.ExpandCompleteBranch(self.Tree,item,wxNewId())

     def ExpandCompleteBranch(self,tree,treeitem,cookie):
         self.parent.msgbox(self,"Durchlauf "+str(cookie),"Kein Titel",wxOK)
         if tree.ItemHasChildren(treeitem):
             lastchild = tree.GetLastChild(treeitem)
             tree.Expand(treeitem)
             (child,cookie) = tree.GetFirstChild(treeitem,cookie)
             self.ExpandCompleteBranch(tree,child,cookie+1)
             while child != lastchild:
*               #cookie = cookie + 1
                 (child,cookie) = tree.GetNextChild(treeitem,cookie)
*               self.ExpandCompleteBranch(tree,child,wxNewId())

I use wxNewId() for cookie ids so that all calls will have unique cookie 
ids.  I'm not sure this is technically necessary, but it can't hurt.

Also, by altering the cookie id during the while loop, you are 
destroying the cookie that is necessary to access the remainder of the 
branch.

Give the above (without the '*' at the beginning of the line) a try.

  - Josiah


From simoninusa2001 at yahoo.co.uk  Sun Apr 11 17:31:09 2004
From: simoninusa2001 at yahoo.co.uk (simo)
Date: 11 Apr 2004 14:31:09 -0700
Subject: solaris install of python
References: <mailman.522.1081681471.20120.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <30260531.0404111331.78b681d7@posting.google.com>

ActiveState have an "AS installer" for Solaris8 - it doesn't even need root access.


From jacek.generowicz at cern.ch  Mon Apr 26 07:04:06 2004
From: jacek.generowicz at cern.ch (Jacek Generowicz)
Date: 26 Apr 2004 13:04:06 +0200
Subject: Magic methods in extension types
Message-ID: <tyfisfnt2zd.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>

I am writing an extension type, and wish to add some magic methods
which are not catered for by the tp_<whatever> slots (eg tp_init ->
__init__) in PyTypeObject. My methods seem to work correctly when
invoked explicitly (eg obj.__iadd__(3)) but the method seems not to be
associated with the corresponding operator (ie obj += 3 does NOT
work).

What am I likely to be doing wrong ?


From jdhunter at ace.bsd.uchicago.edu  Fri Apr 16 10:33:15 2004
From: jdhunter at ace.bsd.uchicago.edu (John Hunter)
Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2004 09:33:15 -0500
Subject: datetimes, tzinfo and gmtime epoch
Message-ID: <m27jwgdmc4.fsf@mother.paradise.lost>


I have a python2.3 datetime instance and a tzinfo instance (eg Eastern
from the python library reference).

What is the best way to convert that datetime instance to seconds
since the epoch, gmtime?


    s1 = '2-Apr-04'  # before dst
    s2 = '5-Apr-04'  # after dst

    y,month,d,h,m,s,wd,jd,ds = time.strptime(s1, '%d-%b-%y')
    dt1 =  datetime.datetime(y,month,d,h,m,s,tzinfo=Eastern)

    y,month,d,h,m,s,wd,jd,ds = time.strptime(s2, '%d-%b-%y')
    dt2 =  datetime.datetime(y,month,d,h,m,s,tzinfo=Eastern)

    print dt1, Eastern.utcoffset(dt1)
    print dt2, Eastern.utcoffset(dt2)


But I'm not sure how to convert this to epoch gmtime ....

Thanks,
John Hunter



From cybermanxu at hotmail.com  Thu Apr 22 12:02:07 2004
From: cybermanxu at hotmail.com (Jinming Xu)
Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2004 11:02:07 -0500
Subject: A python telnet entry level question
Message-ID: <BAY9-F38KTG3WFeafWc0007f323@hotmail.com>

Eddie,

Thank you very much for your answer.  I checked the prompt of the server, 
findint its prompt is "login:", in stead of "login: ". That's all the 
problem I have.


Thanks again. Have a nice day!

Jinming


>From: eddie at holyrood.ed.ac.uk (Eddie Corns)
>To: python-list at python.org
>Subject: Re: A python telnet entry level question
>Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2004 10:11:23 +0000 (UTC)
>
>"Jinming Xu" <cybermanxu at hotmail.com> writes:
>
> >Hello Everyone,
>
> >I am trying to write a python script to telnet to a server and then do
> >something there. As the first step, I practiced the python example in Lib
> >Reference 11.13.2. But I am finding the script stops after I supplied the
> >password.  Does anyone know why?
>
>
> >Thanks in advance!
>
> >Jinming Xu
>
> >PS: Here is the script:
>
> >import getpass
> >import sys
> >import telnetlib
>
> >HOST = "localhost"
> >user = raw_input("Enter your remote account: ")
> >password = getpass.getpass()
>
> >tn = telnetlib.Telnet(HOST)
>
> >tn.read_until("login: ")
> >tn.write(user + "\n")
> >if password:
> >    tn.read_until("Password: ")
> >    tn.write(password + "\n")
>
> >tn.write("ls\n")
> >tn.write("exit\n")
>
> >print tn.read_all()
>
>You are maybe being too specific in what you match for.  At least one of my
>machines prompts:
>
>   Pasword for <username>:
>
>rather than just "Password: ".  I tend to match things like
>
>"ogin"  (in case of Login vs login)
>"assword" (will this get filtered out by censoring s/w?)
>
>Eddie
>--
>http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

_________________________________________________________________
MSN Toolbar provides one-click access to Hotmail from any Web page ? FREE 
download! http://toolbar.msn.com/go/onm00200413ave/direct/01/




From bignose-hates-spam at and-benfinney-does-too.id.au  Fri Apr  2 19:32:47 2004
From: bignose-hates-spam at and-benfinney-does-too.id.au (Ben Finney)
Date: 3 Apr 2004 10:22:47 +0950
Subject: Making the Zen of Python more useful
References: <mailman.284.1080928147.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<c4kkja$l7r$1@news-int.gatech.edu>
	<slrnc6rvad.26k.joe@gate.notcharles.ca>
Message-ID: <slrnc6s2mu.1lo.bignose-hates-spam@rose.localdomain.fake>

On Sat, 03 Apr 2004 00:23:45 GMT, Joe Mason wrote:
> I'm assuming that providing and printing the Zen of Python is the
> module's main purpose, BTW, since I'm not familiar with it.  What is
> the 'this' module, anyway?  It's a name that's pretty much impossible
> to Google for...

No need to assume or search Google.  It's part of the Python
distribution:

    >>> import this
    The Zen of Python, by Tim Peters
    [...]
    >>> this.s
    "Gur Mra bs Clguba, ol Gvz Crgref\n\nOrnhgvshy [...]

You're right that, if we're going to be separating the "make the Zen
available" functionality, then the "this" module should wrap the "make
Zen available" module, instead of some new module wrapping "this" and
disabling its output.

-- 
 \       "If you go flying back through time and you see somebody else |
  `\   flying forward into the future, it's probably best to avoid eye |
_o__)                                        contact."  -- Jack Handey |
Ben Finney <http://bignose.squidly.org/>


From http  Thu Apr 15 20:37:47 2004
From: http (Paul Rubin)
Date: 15 Apr 2004 17:37:47 -0700
Subject: Difficulty Finding Python Developers
References: <65cbc3dd.0404140641.3501fde8@posting.google.com>
	<5d83790c.0404150701.605782a7@posting.google.com>
	<roy-A17A1C.12565615042004@reader2.panix.com>
	<7xpta8hqe7.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<roy-A844BA.18263715042004@reader2.panix.com>
Message-ID: <7xsmf4kbac.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

Roy Smith <roy at panix.com> writes:
> > I think anyone using Python in a serious production project has to be
> > ready to extend or debug the library modules and/or write new C
> > extensions.
> 
> I guess it depends on what you mean by "serious production project".  
> I've played with several of the extension APIs just to get a feel for 
> what they're like, but I've never actually used any of them in anger.

Yes, the point is you never know when you're going to need to use it,
and having a deadline breathing down your neck isn't the right time to
learn about it.  Especially in a startup company, there are just too
many situations where the fate of the whole company depends on your
making something work RIGHT NOW, sometimes even with an investor or
customer looking over your shoulder.

> Of course, I've used plenty of add-on modules (DB, LDAP, SNMP, etc), but 
> I just downloaded them and started using them.  Certainly, *somebody* 
> had to muck about in the C API (or SWIG, or Boost, or whatever) to get 
> that done, but I've never felt the need.

Oh yes, that brings up another matter, there's tons of stuff that's
just plain *missing* from the library, like DB, LDAP, SNAP, web
templates, GUI components that look less crude than TKinter,
cryptography, etc.  Sure, that stuff is around in various third party
libraries, but you have to get a sense of what kind of stuff is out
there and know where to find it, and that takes more acclimation to
Python than you can get in a weekend.  And now, instead of just
deciding that Python is stable enough for your needs, you have to make
a similar decision about each of those third party projects (see below).

> Of course, I learned C in the days when it was assumed that anybody 
> doing any "serious production project" in C would have to be able to 
> dive into assembler once in a while :-)

I think this is still true.  It's certainly happened in projects that
I've worked on recently.

> > There are just too many surprising little gaps in the
> > standard library and you run into them when you least expect it.
> 
> I'm sure there are, but can you give some examples of ones you've
> run up against?

Here are a few, besides the missing modules described earlier:

1) Python's regexp module has no way to search backwards in a string
   for a regexp, i.e. find the last occurence of the regexp before
   location x.  This is useful for things like text editors and web
   robots (at one point I was writing a lot of web robots that wanted
   it). The underlying C library takes a direction flag, but the
   Python wrapper doesn't give any way to set the flag.  Python's string
   module has an rfind operation for substrings, but it doesn't do
   regexps.  I've had an SF bug open for this for at least a year.  I
   haven't bothered doing a patch, since I've been able to find kludgy
   workarounds for my specific requirements, but I if were trying to
   deliver a product to customers, then the kludges wouldn't be
   acceptable and I'd have to fix the library.

2) The socket module doesn't support ancillary messages for AF_UNIX
   sockets.  Ancillary messages are used to pass file descriptors
   between processes (e.g. you can have a daemon that gives
   unprivileged processes access to privileged network ports) and for
   passing credentials around (you can have a server check the login
   ID of a client process).  I opened an SF bug and was invited to
   submit a patch, which I might get around to doing sometime, but I
   instead just didn't bother implementing the feature I was thinking
   about that needed it.  In a project with more urgency, I would
   again have had to stop what I was doing and code that patch.  I
   will have to do it if I ever release that particular piece of code
   to the public, since without the feature, the code can only run in
   some constrained ways that I don't want to impose on users other
   than myself.

3) There's no access to the system random number generator
   (CryptGenRandom) in Windows, needed for all kinds of security
   purposes (not just cryptography).  There are no published or
   supported third party modules for it either, AFAIK.  There's a nice
   one that's been floating around informally, but I know about that
   only by having been on the right mailing lists at the right time.
   It does look like that may make it into the library soon; however,
   in a production environment you can't rely on such luck.  When
   things need to happen, you have to be able to *make* them happen.

4) There's no built-in cryptography module, for partly technical and
   partly political reasons.  I found and downloaded a third-party AES
   module and it seemed to work, so I put it in my program.  But of
   course, any assurances you (or your manager) might feel about
   Python based on its code stability and QA process don't apply to
   third party modules.  And sure enough, the AES module had a memory
   leak that made it unusable in a long-running server.  Finding and
   fixing the leak took something like a whole day of figuring out not
   only how the C API worked but also how the SWIG wrapper worked.  I
   don't blame the module developer, since he had coded it as a
   personal project and released it for free, and he never made any of
   the kind of marketing claims for it that are sometimes made for
   Python.  But there's a case where you can deploy code into
   production, see it seem to work fine until your site is getting a
   lot of traffic, and then your site starts crashing and you have to
   fix it immediately and there's NO way to fix it except by messing
   with the C API while you're under a lot of pressure.

There are also any number of missing things for which there's a
workaround, but you're not necessarily likely to discover that
workaround so easily.  For example, in cryptography you often have to
convert 1024 bit integers to 128-byte character strings and vice
versa.  How would you do it in Python?  It turns out there's a pretty
fast way (I'll let you figure it out for yourself) but at least in my
case, it took a fair amount of head scratching to hit on it.  I think
with just a weekend of Python exposure, it would have been quite hard
to spot something like that.

> > And the C API is quite cumbersome and not something a typical 
> > programmer can really come up to speed on in a weekend.
> 
> No debate about that, but the C API is (IMHO) a very advanced topic and 
> something that only a small fraction of Python programmers would ever 
> need even know exists.  You certainly don't need to know about it to get 
> useful work done with a basic subset of the language.

I have no doubt that you can get useful work done with a basic subset,
but being a solid developer calls for a much higher standard than "get
useful work done".  You're trying to do things that nobody else is
doing, which pretty often means you're trying to push something to its
limits, and you can't always wait around for answers from other people.


From http  Mon Apr  5 01:36:49 2004
From: http (Paul Rubin)
Date: 04 Apr 2004 22:36:49 -0700
Subject: Siginificant figures calculating zprob
References: <9405c70f.0404031852.155d17d5@posting.google.com>
	<c4p34l$ubt$1@newsg4.svr.pol.co.uk>
	<9405c70f.0404042109.55b9f827@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <7xad1r9ea6.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

sarah_wang23 at hotmail.com (Sarah Wang) writes:
> > > But the problem is that the function calculates the result
> > > with only a few significant figures. If I want to get the
> > > 20th number of the result(z-prob) what should I do?
> > 
> > Why would you need this degree of precision?
> 
> I'm doing some exploration into the statistical part of "Six Sigma"
> (as someone on the thread noted) with my most powerful exploratory
> tool "Python Interactive Shell". :)

The thing is you don't really need all that precision even still.
Math libraries usually implement the error function in two forms,
erf(x) which is basically what you call z, and erfc(x) which is 1-erf(x).
So when erf(x) is close to 1, erfc(x) is close to 0 and therefore has
an accurate floating point representation.  You don't get the precision
loss of subtracting two nearly equal floats, so you don't need so much
precision to start with.


From joe at notcharles.ca  Thu Apr 15 15:38:29 2004
From: joe at notcharles.ca (Joe Mason)
Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2004 19:38:29 GMT
Subject: Aspect Programming Module
References: <84fc4588.0404140106.3fa0c55@posting.google.com>
	<slrnc7q1ss.1aa.alf@largo.fayauffre.org>
	<cb035744.0404141130.170f51c4@posting.google.com>
	<8ef9bea6.0404142155.90b41ef@posting.google.com>
	<407E394B.2050709@mxm.dk>
Message-ID: <slrnc7tp4o.9b5.joe@gate.notcharles.ca>

In article <407E394B.2050709 at mxm.dk>, Max M wrote:
> Hung Jung Lu wrote:
> 
>> Python does not even have codeblocks. So how can you say AOP is not
>> needed for Python programmers?
> 
> I am probably rather dense, but I have not seen aspect oriented examples 
>   that could not have been done with simple mixins.
> 
> Isn't it needed in Java because it doesn't have multiple inheritance?

AOP is a design technique, not just a set of tools.  If it's true that
you can just use simple mixins in Python to get the same effect as
ApectJ, then you can say, "AOP is implemented on Python with mixins, but
Java requires language extensions such as AspectJ."  That doesn't mean
Python doesn't "need" AOP - nobody really "needs" it, they just find it
a useful way of approaching problems, and moving to Python doesn't make
it a less useful approach.  In fact, if it's easier on Python, it's more
useful.

Joe


From drs at remove-to-send-mail-ecpsoftware.com  Sat Apr 17 02:30:14 2004
From: drs at remove-to-send-mail-ecpsoftware.com (drs)
Date: Sat, 17 Apr 2004 06:30:14 GMT
Subject: Passing COM VB6 strings weirdness
References: <z3Rfc.66372$QQ6.4420@nwrdny02.gnilink.net>
Message-ID: <W94gc.61603$M3.25030@twister.nyroc.rr.com>

"U-CDK_CHARLES\Charles" <"Charles Krug"@cdksystems.com> wrote in message
news:z3Rfc.66372$QQ6.4420 at nwrdny02.gnilink.net...
> List:
>
> I've a Python COM server that keeps an event logs.
>
> I've been using it from VB6:
>
> * * *
>
> When I log certain events from VB, I also display a message box for the
> user or for me, depending on the specific message.
>
> If I call messageBox BEFORE I invoke logEntry, all is well.
>
> BUT if I invoke logEntry first, the passed string becomes a literal
> zero.
>
> Any thoughts on this?  I'm not certain why I'm getting the returned
> value from this at all, let alone why it's being assigned to the
> argument string.

I don't know if this is the same thing, but I have found that often passing
variables from VB to Python COM servers mucks up the variables on the VB
side.  I think I have posted this issue here (probably a few years back),
but I have never gotten a reason why -- i think. Also, I have never really
pinned down exectly what circumstances lead to it.  Instead, I have gotten
used to declaring two identicle variables in VB when I need to do what you
are doing.  It is an awful hack, but it works.

Sorry for such a lame answer.

-doug




From jmeile at hotmail.com  Wed Apr 21 14:31:52 2004
From: jmeile at hotmail.com (Josef Meile)
Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2004 20:31:52 +0200
Subject: Python 2.3.3 super() behaviour
In-Reply-To: <c65fbo$1q4$05$1@news.t-online.com>
References: <40863bd7$0$25528$afc38c87@news.easynet.fr>
	<c65fbo$1q4$05$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <4086bdfc$1@pfaff2.ethz.ch>

Peter Otten wrote:
 > As soon as a test() method without the super(...).test() is reached, no
 > further test methods will be invoked. Only the first in the list of base
 > classes will be invoked. If I'm getting it right you have to do something
 > like:
 >
 > class Base(object):
 >     def test(self):
 >         print "base"
 >
 > class D1(Base):
 >     def test(self):
 >         super(D1, self).test()
 >         print "derived 1"
 >
 > class D2(Base):
 >     def test(self):
 >         super(D2, self).test()
 >         print "derived 2"
 >
 > class All(D1, D2):
 >     pass
 >
 > All().test()
Ok, this produces almost what the original poster wanted. You
just have to invert the order of the base classes in All:

 >>>class All(D2, D1):
...   pass
...

then you will get:
 >>> All().test()
base
derived 1
derived 2

However, I don't understand jet why this doesn't print:

base
derived 1
base
derived 2

The method test of Base is called just once? Why?
I taught it was something like:

All.test() -> D1.test() + D2.test()

which is the same as:

(Base.test() + print "derived 1") + (Base.test() + print derived 2")

Thanks in advanced,
Josef


From jepler at unpythonic.net  Wed Apr 21 22:20:06 2004
From: jepler at unpythonic.net (Jeff Epler)
Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2004 21:20:06 -0500
Subject: zip 2 sequences into 1
In-Reply-To: <c671dc$2sc$1@sea.gmane.org>
References: <c671dc$2sc$1@sea.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <20040422022005.GA18172@unpythonic.net>

def flatten(s):
    for i in s:
        for j in i:
            yield j

flatten(zip([1,2,3], "abc"))

Jeff



From fredrik at pythonware.com  Fri Apr 23 07:17:25 2004
From: fredrik at pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2004 13:17:25 +0200
Subject: [Q] C-api: string|int|... construction
References: <788E231C269961418F38D3E360D165259B408C@tndefr-ws00021.tenovis.corp.lan>
Message-ID: <c6atvd$2mi$1@sea.gmane.org>

Ames Andreas wrote:

> is it possible (within a C extension) to create a python string (or
> integer or other type) from an existing C string *without* copying the
> string?

*you* don't need to copy the string; if you create an object that needs
a copy, the type constructor will copy it for you.

you cannot create Python string objects that point to your own strings.

if you want to create a string-like object that points to your own C strings,
create your own type and implement the buffer interface.  see the "extending
and embedding" and "c api" documents for details.

(but note that unless you're talking about strings in the 100+ megabyte range,
or run on relatively old hardware, chances are that you're wasting your time.
modern computers can copy things really, really fast).

</F>






From skip at pobox.com  Sun Apr 11 20:38:26 2004
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Sun, 11 Apr 2004 19:38:26 -0500
Subject: print u"\u0432": why is this so hard? UnciodeEncodeError
In-Reply-To: <c5cgq3$tps$00$1@news.t-online.com>
References: <cpa4qrvb529.fsf@cabernet.nelson.monkey.org>
	<c52lu9$j8c$03$1@news.t-online.com>
	<eppstein-55126D.00202008042004@news.service.uci.edu>
	<c546v4$bi5$02$1@news.t-online.com>
	<m38yh3hhxv.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk>
	<c5cgq3$tps$00$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <16505.58626.39783.581506@montanaro.dyndns.org>


    Martin> I wonder how much would break if Python would assume the
    Martin> terminal encoding is UTF-8 on Darwin. Do people use different
    Martin> terminal encodings?

I generally use xterm instead of Terminal.app.  I think it's encoding is
latin-1.

Skip




From jepler at unpythonic.net  Fri Apr  9 16:54:56 2004
From: jepler at unpythonic.net (Jeff Epler)
Date: Fri, 9 Apr 2004 15:54:56 -0500
Subject: Python-2.3.3 install -> no "make"
In-Reply-To: <2278156.F9pO2Pa3OA@Lumina-verte.org>
References: <2278156.F9pO2Pa3OA@Lumina-verte.org>
Message-ID: <20040409205456.GB19461@unpythonic.net>

"make" is a program that is installed on most Unix-type systems with the
compiler.  It maybe /usr/bin/make, /usr/local/bin/gmake, or somewhere
else.  If you don't have it, you'll need to install it.

"Makefile" is the file read by make, which contains rules for building
Python.

Jeff



From simoninusa2001 at yahoo.co.uk  Thu Apr  1 11:33:53 2004
From: simoninusa2001 at yahoo.co.uk (simo)
Date: 1 Apr 2004 08:33:53 -0800
Subject: Python conference slogan
References: <mailman.189.1080759511.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<kmjsj1-89u.ln1@snout.lairds.org> <c4glmq$j1i$1@swifty.westend.com>
Message-ID: <30260531.0404010833.1b834032@posting.google.com>

Peter Maas <fpetermaas at netscape.net> wrote:

> I surrender immediately and have to admit that I don't get it (One
> Nation Under Under Python). Google was no help. I couldn't find the
> source, only echoes (seems to be a wide spread joke pattern in the
> US). Care to give us ignorants a hint?

Yeah, as an Englishman, I don't get it either (despite living in the US).

Is it some sort of Bush/Iraq joke again (Americans are obsessed with them)?

What about, "Don't be constricted by Java, try Python"?


From mark at prothon.org  Wed Apr 21 14:31:30 2004
From: mark at prothon.org (Mark Hahn)
Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2004 11:31:30 -0700
Subject: Dollar sign ($) on foriegn keyboards? (prothon)
References: <mk3hc.13895$dZ1.10823@fed1read04><mailman.793.1082468190.20120.python-list@python.org><IEghc.17557$dZ1.1035@fed1read04>
	<mailman.837.1082562788.20120.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <66zhc.19122$dZ1.9432@fed1read04>


"Fredrik Lundh" <fredrik at pythonware.com> wrote in ...

> you can get a lot better results and generate a lot
> less noise by doing a web-based questionaire, and
> post a single invitation here
> and in other forums where Pythoneers gather.

That is a very good idea. I will do that in the future.  Of course, people
will still start babbling on the list about the question anyway, but that I
can't control.

> strangely enough, I don't see any top Pythoneers contributing to the
Prothon
> threads.  who are they?

Oh, you are calling my bluff, eh? <grin>  I remember Tim Peters off the top
of my head, I'd have to go back through the archives to find the others.  Do
you want urls of the archived messages <grin>?





From nish20 at netzero.net  Thu Apr 15 10:18:27 2004
From: nish20 at netzero.net (Mike Nishizawa)
Date: 15 Apr 2004 07:18:27 -0700
Subject: OFF-TOPIC:: Why Lisp is not my favorite programming language
References: <165b3efa.0403030443.4d591f04@posting.google.com>
	<40460dd5$0$5916$7a628cd7@news.club-internet.fr>
	<d771b842.0403040735.3b5200ae@posting.google.com>
	<e87fc4b0.0403221114.254b7ee5@posting.google.com>
	<d771b842.0404061258.655b8e56@posting.google.com>
	<tyfy8p8vy0x.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
Message-ID: <d771b842.0404150618.18535a9@posting.google.com>

Jacek Generowicz <jacek.generowicz at cern.ch> wrote in message news:<tyfy8p8vy0x.fsf at pcepsft001.cern.ch>...
> nish20 at netzero.net (Mike Nishizawa) writes:
> 
> > If it beats LISP at it's own game which is, list processing,
>  
> > an especially good application for a LISt Processing language.
> 
> [lots more uninformed garbage elided]
> 
> Please get a clue about what Lisp is in the 21st century (hell, even
> what it was in the last 2 decades of the 20th century), before posting
> any more of your drivel.
> 
> For example, you could look at http://franz.com/success/ for a little
> insight into what is being done (mereyly by processing lists and
> parsing files, according to your view of the world) in Lisp today.

2 words pal, settle down.  If you weren't such a fanatic you would
realize that we are not not saying anything that different. I have
simply used a different, more simple example.  I learned AI
development with LISP.  I have used it in web applications in the
past.  I realize that it is used for more advanced applications and I
am not limiting the functionality of it to a parser.  I am saying that
it's native functionality is list processing and had to defend my
earlier position that it makes it good for parsing files because you
seem to want to zealously attack me if I don't present LISP in it's
greatest possible light.

The original point of the post was simply to say one language is the
best for all applications is stupid.  If you plan to develop
something, choose the language that it is most suited to solving the
problem instead of trying to say that EVERYTHING from drivers to
enterprise applications should be developed in one language.  If I had
known you were out there ready to pounce on anyone who might give a
simple example of LISP and therefore, in your opinion, simplify the
language or what it can do, I would have said AI instead of parser and
saved myself the trouble of being persecuted by a zealot.


From rjgruet at yahoo.com  Sat Apr 10 19:11:16 2004
From: rjgruet at yahoo.com (Richard Gruet)
Date: Sun, 11 Apr 2004 01:11:16 +0200
Subject: new-style class instance check
Message-ID: <c59uvd$fgh$1@apollon.grec.isp.9tel.net>

Hi all,

How to determine that an object o is for sure an instance of a new-style
class, without knowing of which specific class ?
That is, if I define a function:

def isNewStyleClassInstance(o):
    pass    ## to be completed

.. I want to pass the following test:

def C: pass
def CNew(object): pass

assert not isNewStyleClassInstance(C()) # InstanceType
assert isNewStyleClassInstance(CNew())
assert not isNewStyleClassInstance(1)    # instance of type int
# and naturally for all other types of o the function should return False.

Richard




From rick.ratzel at magma-da.com  Wed Apr 28 14:16:02 2004
From: rick.ratzel at magma-da.com (Rick Ratzel)
Date: Wed, 28 Apr 2004 13:16:02 -0500
Subject: Good examples for Embedding python in C, C++
In-Reply-To: <mailman.74.1083153322.25742.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.74.1083153322.25742.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <408ff4e3$0$3714$39cecf19@news.twtelecom.net>


    I did a presentation on this very topic at PyCon this year:

http://elmer.sourceforge.net/PyCon04/elmer_pycon04.html

    ...and here is the complete example code:

http://elmer.sourceforge.net/PyCon04/Elmer_PyCon04.tgz

    You can use Elmer (http://elmer.sourceforge.net) to automatically 
generate the C equivalent to a Python API.  When run in "frozen" mode, 
the resulting application is self-contained...but when run in "warm" 
mode, a user can modify the python sources without any code 
recompilation, like you said.

-Rick Ratzel

Henko Gouws (H) wrote:
> Hallo
> 
> I am looking for good examples on how to call a python script from C,
> C++ and pass parameters (list of strings) to the python script.  The
> aim is to ultimately allow the end-user to modify the python script,
> without any code recompilation, to suit the needs of the end-user.
> The C, C++ part will remain intact.
> 
> I could not find good examples, that could help me with this, in the
> references from python.org.  I would appreciate your help.
> 
> thanks
> Henko
> 


From imbosol at aerojockey.invalid  Thu Apr  1 02:23:13 2004
From: imbosol at aerojockey.invalid (Carl Banks)
Date: Thu, 01 Apr 2004 07:23:13 GMT
Subject: From python-dev, space vs. tab controversy finally settled
Message-ID: <BrPac.5729$xw6.2105@fe1.columbus.rr.com>


Here's a summary of the final decision Guido made concerning how
Python will indent code in the future, from python-dev:

Guido had been planning to deprecate tabs in favor of spaces for
awhile, although there have been good arguments for both tabs and
spaces.  But he was never really comfortable pulling the rug out from
half the user base.  However, today he finally decided on a compromise
that has all the benefits of both spaces and tabs.

His decision was predicated by the recent decision of the Unicode
Consortium to allocate some new codes for special use in programming
languages.  The Consortium allocated codes for (among other things):
several sets of left and right braces, several sets of quote
characters, a couple universal comment markers, and several
metacharacters for use in regular expressions.

However, the code that influenced Guido was a special indent code.
Here's how it works: at the beginning of the line, you put in one
"indent character" for each level of indentation.  Because Python will
support Unicode fully by 3.0, Guido decided that this new Unicode
character will be the one and only way to indent Python code.

Now, I'm sure everyone's aware that Unicode is getting kind of full,
and so, rather than allocating precious ununsed slots to the new
programming characters, the Consortium decided reallocate some codes
that had been rarely used.  These codes fall in the range 0001 through
001F, excepting 000A and 001A (all codes in hexadecimal).  The new
indent character has code 0009.

So, you should start using Unicode character 0009 to indent right
away.  Python 2.4 will deprecate all indentation not using the new
indent character, and Python 3.0 will not support any other
indentation.


-- 
CARL BANKS                      http://www.aerojockey.com/software
"If you believe in yourself, drink your school, stay on drugs, and
don't do milk, you can get work." 
          -- Parody of Mr. T from a Robert Smigel Cartoon


From jcarlson at uci.edu  Thu Apr  1 19:20:43 2004
From: jcarlson at uci.edu (Josiah Carlson)
Date: Thu, 01 Apr 2004 16:20:43 -0800
Subject: emergent/swarm/evolutionary systems etc
In-Reply-To: <c4hjp4$dg6$1@sparta.btinternet.com>
References: <c4aeq8$92a$1@hercules.btinternet.com>
	<c4btjr$8il$1@titan.btinternet.com>
	<c4ccs2$l9j$1@news.service.uci.edu>
	<c4hjp4$dg6$1@sparta.btinternet.com>
Message-ID: <c4ibr0$ngm$1@news.service.uci.edu>

> rules.  Given that I have only a basic foothold on the language, does
> anybody foresee difficulties for me learning enough to impliment simple and
> experimentally flexible sim-city style simulations (minus fancy graphics and
> llamas) in no more than 2 months (to allow for time to conduct actual
> experiments + field observations etc)?  I would be able to engender aid from
> various staff, and the university library should carry titles on the
> subject.  Failing that, I could do it the old fashioned way and buy a how-to
> book, but I'd like some opinions on the difficulty of the goal from people
> who've already trancended the non-programmer/programmer barrier.


Two months is a pretty tight schedule.  If you're on your toes, I would 
bet you could learn enough of the langauge to support your ideas in 2 
months.  Actually programming the thing in 2 months; I wouldn't be able 
to make that kind of judgement about your abilities.

I wish you luck.
  - Josiah


From graham__fawcett at hotmail.com  Fri Apr 23 10:55:25 2004
From: graham__fawcett at hotmail.com (Graham Fawcett)
Date: 23 Apr 2004 07:55:25 -0700
Subject: Python-list, Exotic sex is urgently necessary for you!
References: <E5E3A37F16I0JC42@python.org>
	<mailman.935.1082683672.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<EY1ic.31$Ah4.7@read3.inet.fi>
Message-ID: <e9570f37.0404230655.15907007@posting.google.com>

Timo Virkkala <a at a.invalid> wrote in message news:<EY1ic.31$Ah4.7 at read3.inet.fi>...
> [disgusting content snipped]
> 
> I've heard of sex with lots of kinds of animals, but Pythons? Wouldn't 
> that be a) difficult b) VERY dangerous?

It's no surprise you're not into snakes, Timo. Everyone knows that
Finns have fixations for flightless, fat waterfowl.

BTW, I think that "Python-list, Exotic sex is urgently necessary for
you!" should be the slogan for the next PyCon conference. It would
definitely increase registrations.

-- Graham


From PeterAbel at gmx.net  Tue Apr 13 12:12:05 2004
From: PeterAbel at gmx.net (Peter Abel)
Date: 13 Apr 2004 09:12:05 -0700
Subject: how to break tuple to separate variables
References: <mailman.572.1081846104.20120.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <21064255.0404130812.529c98f8@posting.google.com>

Stano Paska <Stanislav.Paska at kios.sk> wrote in message news:<mailman.572.1081846104.20120.python-list at python.org>...
> Hi.
> 
> I need pass variables to function like tuple, but function accepts 
> separate variables.
> 
> Is there some elegant solution?
> 
> My example:
> 
> # -------------------------------
> import datetime
> 
> def date2tuple(aaa):
>      try:
>          y = int(aaa[:4])
>          m = int(aaa[5:7])
>          d = int(aaa[8:10])
>      except:
>          y = m = d = 0
>      return (y, m, d)
> 
> # i need some like this
> bbb = datetime.date(date2tuple('2004-11-03'))
> 
> # but date requires
> bbb = datetime.date(2004, 11, 03)
> 
> # -------------------------------
> 
> Thanks.
> 
> Stano Paska

Sorry, I didn't read your post seriously enough.
>> map(int,'2004-11-03'.split('-'))
[2004, 11, 3]

bbb = datetime.date(*map(int,'2004-11-03'.split('-')))
as Paul Rubin pointed out.

Regards
Peter


From python at rcn.com  Fri Apr 16 07:19:37 2004
From: python at rcn.com (Raymond Hettinger)
Date: 16 Apr 2004 04:19:37 -0700
Subject: Automatic, portable optimization of global access
References: <5d83790c.0404150721.46a3b5d0@posting.google.com>
	<7xvfk17zeg.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<5d83790c.0404151803.598c1807@posting.google.com>
	<7xbrlseclf.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <5d83790c.0404160319.f46f2f9@posting.google.com>

[Paul Rubin] 
> Well, it's possible that builtins get changed too.  I've used "len" as
> a variable a few times without realizing that I was clobbering a builtin.

Paul, I don't know how to say this more clearly.  Don't use constant
binding in places where the underlying values can change.


Raymond


From kfast at poczta.onet.pl  Tue Apr 13 18:59:59 2004
From: kfast at poczta.onet.pl (Jakub Fast)
Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2004 00:59:59 +0200
Subject: Does Python compete with Java?
In-Reply-To: <c5hmtq$6eh$06$1@news.t-online.com>
References: <8b336527.0404051337.51bb4a1b@posting.google.com>	<c4taac$2lg0bc$1@ID-169208.news.uni-berlin.de>	<e838aa6e.0404071426.7192e8e4@posting.google.com>	<slrnc79idf.hij.ramen@lackingtalent.com>	<e838aa6e.0404130748.1d8e1ddf@posting.google.com>	<mailman.585.1081876373.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<c5hmtq$6eh$06$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <407C70EF.7080100@poczta.onet.pl>

> No, it isn't. People would not like it because it looks like line noise.

I guess that qualifies as a definite answer. Shame, though, in my 
stubborn and incorrigible ways i still kind of think a well-constructed 
operator saves the day, especially when exposing your language in a 
"custom" environment, such as embedded scripting or a neatly defined 
collection of 'special' tasks. Of course you can always resort to 
getting the user to provide text files that you parse yourself according 
to some custom grammar (which is what i'll probably end up doing), but 
that has disadvantages in regards to a nice side effect of getting 
people to pick up some python on the way and actually feel like they're 
really programming.

and yes, i do think this is enough of a reason to look at other 
languages that do permit op overloading for you embedded scripting in 
some cases (like when you don't want to confuse the average user too 
much and make typical tasks as easy as possible while retaining the 
versatility of a full-fledged language).

of course custom operators (if they permit alphanumeric shapes for 
instance...) can make one major mess of your code, but then, isn't the 
zen of python more along the way of: "the master hits the student 
repeatedly with a stick and the student experiences enlightenment" 
rather than "the master takes the toys away from the student". Is just 
the inclusion of a feature like this into the language considered evil, 
especially taking into account that it does not intervene with whatever 
else there is in the language?

 >> S ==> (NP and VP) or VP
 >
> If it is the structure, you should be able to write this as
> 
>   S.implies(NP.and_(VP).or_(VP))
> 

This is completely fine and actually quite cool if you've had your OO 
practice, but the point is that the parts you actually felt missing and 
which made my formulation unreadable to you are absolutely obvious for 
anyone who has had anything to do with linguistics -- which definitely 
would be the case with whomever i'd show the module to :) -- and the 
sample form i give would require 0.5 degrees of learning effort, as 
opposed to 10.5 degrees or way more if you're completely new to programming.


Is there really no chance this goes into python on an "if you really 
have to do this, be warned, but here are the tools" basis?

Anyway, hope i'm not boring you to death and thank you for your answers

Kuba



From michael at foord.net  Mon Apr 19 03:14:02 2004
From: michael at foord.net (Fuzzyman)
Date: 19 Apr 2004 00:14:02 -0700
Subject: Wrapper round x86 Assembler
References: <8089854e.0404082353.7bf163a2@posting.google.com>
	<2ae25c6b.0404100840.10668dca@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <8089854e.0404182314.2c9b8dba@posting.google.com>

paddy3118 at netscape.net (Paddy McCarthy) wrote in message news:<2ae25c6b.0404100840.10668dca at posting.google.com>...
> michael at foord.net (Fuzzyman) wrote in message news:<8089854e.0404082353.7bf163a2 at posting.google.com>...
> > There might be a really good reason why this hasn't been done *or*
> > someone might have done it and I just can't find it..... *but*
> > 
> > what about a wrapper to an assembler (presumably for x86 assembly !)
> > !!
> > I just wrote some code doing binary operations which would have been
> > about a zillion times faster in a few lines of assembly code.
> > 
> > I also have fond memories of programming in BBC Basic which had an
> > inline assembler - so you could wrap your assembly program in Basic.
> > It meant some commercial games started with Basic !
> > 
> > Anyway - it would be easy to reserve some memory with a string like
> > object to pass to an 'assembly object' and allow some really nifty
> > (and fast) stuff ?? For simple algorithms it would be very neat.
> > Avoiding memory overflow etc would be up to the assembly code 'chunk'
> > of course.
> > 
> > Regards,
> > 
> > 
> > Fuzzy
> > 
> > http://www.voidspace.org.uk/atlantibots/pythonutils.html
> I.m sure that what I am about to suggest isn't as high tech as you
> were expecting ,
> but I thought that Python already has a way of accessing functions in
> a Unix
> shared library, or Windows DLL.
> If you cancompile Python on the platform than you no doubt have an
> assembler handy too.
> So, you could put your assemble language in a string; write the string
> to a file;
> assemble the file to create a shered library or DLL, then call the
> function from Python!
> 
> I don't think I'd do it that way though :-)
> 
> Cheers, Pad.


I've just discovered Weave - a package that is part of the SciPy
project and allows for (sort-of) inline C functions that can be
dynamically compiled at run-time.

So it effectively allows what you've suggested - but with C-functions
!!

As I'd like to learn Pyrex (and so need to learn C) - I think I'll
experiment with Weave.

Regards,


Fuzzy


http://www.voidspace.org.uk/atlantibots/pythonutils.html


From spam.trap.vrai.stacey at spam.trap.kbcfp.com  Thu Apr  8 09:56:54 2004
From: spam.trap.vrai.stacey at spam.trap.kbcfp.com (Vrai Stacey)
Date: Thu, 08 Apr 2004 14:56:54 +0100
Subject: if 'hallo' in ['hallooo','halloooooooo'] problem
In-Reply-To: <c53k55$mm2$1@news.mch.sbs.de>
References: <c53k55$mm2$1@news.mch.sbs.de>
Message-ID: <1081432643.152843@master.nyc.kbcfp.com>

Robert wrote:
> I have a little problem and mybe one of you has got the solution.
> I would like to check if a string is in a list of strings.
> The following returns true:
> if 'hallo' in ['halloooo','hallooooooooo']:
>     pass

What version of Python are you using? With 2.2.3 I get the behavior you 
want using your first example.

So ...
     > if 'hallo' in ['halloooo','hallooooooooo']: print "Hallo!";
     > if 'hallo' in ['halloooo','hallo' ]: print "Hallo!";
     Hallo!

vrai.


From leeg at teaching.physics.ox.ac.uk.valid  Mon Apr 26 12:36:04 2004
From: leeg at teaching.physics.ox.ac.uk.valid (leeg)
Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2004 17:36:04 +0100
Subject: Is Perl *that* good? (was: How's ruby compare to it older bro
References: <mailman.18.1082989111.25742.python-list@python.org>
	<lNadndrvs_FarRDdRVn-vA@powergate.ca> <c6jcf5$mfv$2@news.ox.ac.uk>
	<2tOdna6S8a4pqxDdRVn_iw@powergate.ca>
Message-ID: <c6jdsu$n1j$1@news.ox.ac.uk>

Peter Hansen wrote:

> leeg wrote:
> 
>> Peter Hansen wrote:
>> 
>>>I guess it would be interesting to pose the question back to
>>>them "If you could not use regexes in Perl, would you still
>>>like to program in it?" or "If you couldn't use mysql in PHP
>>>would you still use it?"
>>>
>>>What similar question, if any, would be a difficult one for
>>>us Python types?
>>>
>> 
>> "If you couldn't write any program your imagination came up with in
>> Python, or couldn't at least prototype it, or it took longer to write in
>> Python than it did in C or Objective-C, would you still use it?"
> 
> I guess it's pretty easy to come up with such questions if
> you leave it wide open.
> 
> Perhaps I should have said "limit yourself to questions involving
> key pieces of functionality, external libraries, or specific
> syntax" or something like that...
> 

OK, fair enough.  In that case, there is no reason for me to be using Python
(except that it's easy to write and easy to read, which is good enough for
me).  I use POSIX-ey stuff and interfaces to lumps of code written in other
languages, so Python could be Perl or Objective-C or C or Pascal or
anything as far as I care; I just happen to be able to write correct code
fairly quickly in Python.  I hope that makes sense :-)
-- 
Graham Lee
I am leeg, for we are many
"Computer Science is the only discipline in which we view adding a new wing
to a building as being maintenance." - Jim Horning
http://users.ox.ac.uk/~wadh1342



From claird at lairds.com  Mon Apr  5 10:11:29 2004
From: claird at lairds.com (Cameron Laird)
Date: Mon, 05 Apr 2004 14:11:29 -0000
Subject: Advocacy opportunity
References: <10719mdp83juif4@corp.supernews.com>
	<1071eiaddi7mo95@news.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <1072q8hdr0ustf7@corp.supernews.com>

In article <1071eiaddi7mo95 at news.supernews.com>,
John Roth <newsgroups at jhrothjr.com> wrote:
			.
			.
			.
>the Python column. Some of them I don't know how to fill out,
>and a few of them I don't know what he's talking about, frankly.
			.
			.
			.
And a few make me laugh, in the well-we-know-what-*you*-have-
on-your-mind vein (see how high on the list tail reduction is?).
-- 

Cameron Laird <claird at phaseit.net>
Business:  http://www.Phaseit.net


From rzantow at ntelos.net  Mon Apr  5 08:05:50 2004
From: rzantow at ntelos.net (rzed)
Date: Mon, 05 Apr 2004 12:05:50 GMT
Subject: How to assign a default constant value in a function declaration
References: <mailman.341.1081121191.20120.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <Xns94C252B3C74BBrzed@63.223.5.95>

"Vineet Jain" <vineet at eswap.com> wrote in
news:mailman.341.1081121191.20120.python-list at python.org: 

> The following does not work although it seems like something you
> should be able to do.
> 
> def someFunction(option=Constants.DEFAULT_VALUE):
> 
Do you mean in a context like this?

>>> class Const:
...    someVal=255
...    otherVal=0
...
>>> Const.someVal
255
>>> someVal=255
>>> someVal
255
>>> def blip(Const.someVal):
  File "<stdin>", line 1
    def blip(Const.someVal):
                  ^
SyntaxError: invalid syntax
>>> def blip(someVal):
...    (no syntax error)


I've wondered about that, too. 


-- 
rzed



From 2002 at weholt.org  Fri Apr 30 17:03:30 2004
From: 2002 at weholt.org (Thomas Weholt)
Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2004 23:03:30 +0200
Subject: Adding and modifying methods at run-time
Message-ID: <4092c014$1@news.broadpark.no>

Hi,

I want to add methods to a class instance at run-time based on a base
method, but modify one of the existing ( or add if possible ) params of the
base method. Say a class like this :


class A:
  def __init__(self):
    self.obj1() # some dummy object having a name attribute
    self.obj2() # some dummy object having a name attribute
  def __method1__(self, param1, param2, param3 = None):
        # use some property on param3 in some operations
  def addNewMethod(self, param1, new_obj):
       new_func = copy.copy(self.__method1__)
       # modify a copy of self.__method1__ and change the param3 to point
new_obj
       # and add the method
       setattr(self, 'method4%s' % new_obj.name, new_func)

use the class like so :

a = A()
a.addNewMethod(1, a.obj1)
# use new dynamically method
a.method4obj1(1,2) # now the third param with a default is set to point to
obj1 instead of None

I'm crashing at the copy-method in addNewMethod. It crashes with the
exception "TypeError: function() takes at least 2 arguments (0 given)". This
is deep inside the copy-module.

Any hints or clues?

Best regards,
Thomas




From peter at engcorp.com  Fri Apr 16 10:07:25 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2004 10:07:25 -0400
Subject: List code of function in interpreter
In-Reply-To: <407fe1aa$0$16036$3b214f66@usenet.univie.ac.at>
References: <407fe1aa$0$16036$3b214f66@usenet.univie.ac.at>
Message-ID: <D6idncSvro4AdeLdRVn-hg@powergate.ca>

a9605473 at unet.univie.ac.at wrote:

> A simple question.
> 
> Is it possible in the python (or ipython) interpreter to
> review the source code of a self defined function?

That depends.  The source is actually "lost" in at least
one sense, because Python is compiled to bytecode (similar
in some ways to how Java works) behind the scenes, and the
interpreter executes this bytecode and not the source.

On the other hand, the source file is still right there, usually,
and if you are looking for a programmatic way of finding it
and listing it, I believe the inspect module is what you are
looking for: http://docs.python.org/lib/module-inspect.html

Another and much less suitable (I suspect) option for you is to
disassemble the function using the dis module.

-Peter


From newsgroups at jhrothjr.com  Thu Apr 15 10:57:51 2004
From: newsgroups at jhrothjr.com (John Roth)
Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2004 10:57:51 -0400
Subject: Newbie question: Returning mutable vs. immutable
References: <997a06e0.0404150627.5fb95d9b@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <107t8opa3b6iia5@news.supernews.com>


<pugnatio2 at yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:997a06e0.0404150627.5fb95d9b at posting.google.com...
> Hi, Does anyone have an opinion as to whether functions/methods should
> return mutable or immutable objects? In some circumstances, I could
> see that mutable objects might be more convenient, but if the function
> is to be reused, it might be a good idea to return only immutables.
>
> Or is this question moot, since the function returns control to the
> caller and is out of the picture at that point?
>
> Thanks,
>
> --p

I'm not sure I understand the question. The entire reason (well, not
the *entire* reason, but close enough on the novice level) you write
functions is to use them again and again and again. So your function
should return whatever it needs to.

In thinking about this, it seems there is really only one place where
you would have a choice of mutable or immutable: a list or a tuple.
Think of a tuple as a packaging method for a number of distinct
values that you want to return. For example, if I say:

return spam, eggs, juice

the compiler builds a tuple. If I wanted to return a list, I'd have
to say:

return [spam, eggs, juice]

John Roth




From python at rcn.com  Mon Apr  5 04:01:14 2004
From: python at rcn.com (Raymond Hettinger)
Date: 5 Apr 2004 01:01:14 -0700
Subject: Python is faster than C
References: <406F0907.96F37EA1@tunes.org>
	<5d83790c.0404032144.482787bd@posting.google.com>
	<6y1cc.1346$Qv6.482@fe2.columbus.rr.com>
Message-ID: <5d83790c.0404042306.497e0384@posting.google.com>

> >>>> enumerate('abcdefgh')
>  <enumerate object at 0x401a102c:  (0, 'a') (1, 'b') (2, 'c') ...>
> >>>> list(_)
> > [(0, 'a'), (1, 'b'), (2, 'c'), (3, 'd'), (4, 'e'), (5, 'f'), (6, 'g'),
> > (7, 'h'), (8, 'i'), (9, 'j'), (10, 'k'), (11, 'l'), (12, 'm'), (13,
> > 'n')]
 
[Carl Banks] 
> I thought this myself, but what if the iterator is computationally
> intensive?

Since no more than three items are displayed, the interactive prompt
will still handle this much better than something like range(10000000)
which takes a while to compute and display.

Besides, everything you do in Python pays a little performance penalty
just to make sure you can break out of computationally intensive
tasks.

For me, these almost never arise at the interactive prompt.

Likewise, I program in a less hostile world than Andrew Dalke who has
to contend with pandora's box iterators which ruin the lives of mortal
men who think they can call .next() with impunity ;-)


Raymond Hettinger


From michael at foord.net  Thu Apr  8 03:52:05 2004
From: michael at foord.net (Fuzzyman)
Date: 8 Apr 2004 00:52:05 -0700
Subject: ANNOUNCE : dataenc.py and Pythonutils
References: <8089854e.0404052348.15e3a04e@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <8089854e.0404072352.764ae09d@posting.google.com>

Python Utils

http://www.voidspace.org.uk/atlantibots/pythonutils.html

Already a few updates :


*NEW* StandOut 2
Well, sort of new... actually an update - but a complete rewrite.
StandOut is a Flexible Output Object - it allows you to implement vary
degrees of 'verbosity' for command line programs *and* to allow
logging to a file (with the same or a different degree of verbosity) -
yet messages are printed just using the normal print command.

Messages can be given a general 'priority', a priority for individual
messages can be specified, an additional function can be passed in to
print with - to display output to a GUI window, or perhaps to format
ouput - plus a few other bits besides. Very easy to use and with full
docs.


dataenc Version 1.1.1
Fixes two bugs - one in interleaving files with a watermark file
bigger than 64k, the other when watermarking files with a watermark
less than 65536 times the size of the main file.
Made the ouput from the tests look a bit nicer.


ConfigObj Version 2.1.0
Made a couple of the parameters keywords, and added a couple of extra
keywords that affect the way it treats creating configobjs for config
files that don't yet exist. (Throw an error ? Create the file ?)

Regards,


Fuzzy


From junkmail at solumslekt.org  Fri Apr 16 05:23:23 2004
From: junkmail at solumslekt.org (Leif B. Kristensen)
Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2004 11:23:23 +0200
Subject: CamelCase versus wide_names (Prothon)
References: <UHxfc.9323$dZ1.3740@fed1read04> <87hdvl2dny.fsf@blakie.riol>
	<c5mr6h$jkn$1@atlantis.news.tpi.pl> <87d6692ar8.fsf@blakie.riol>
	<mailman.674.1082103786.20120.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <FCNfc.25592$zf6.94057@news4.e.nsc.no>

Hugh Macdonald rose and spake:

> On a qwerty keyboard, _ is SHIFT+- (to the right of 0)
 
In my part of the world, _ is also Shift+-, but it's to the right of
the . (period). In OO programming in general that's a bit awkward as I
frequently type a dot where I want an underscore and vice versa. This
is an error that often can be very hard to spot. So, this may be an
argument for camelCasing, - which I actually haven't used much since my
TurboPascal days.

regards,
-- 
Leif Biberg Kristensen
http://solumslekt.org/
Validare necesse est


From paul at prescod.net  Sat Apr 24 18:40:08 2004
From: paul at prescod.net (Paul Prescod)
Date: Sat, 24 Apr 2004 22:40:08 GMT
Subject: Why we will use obj$func() often
In-Reply-To: <no4ic.26268$dZ1.11413@fed1read04>
References: <d2Uhc.22272$dZ1.1600@fed1read04><84Uhc.22278$dZ1.5087@fed1read04>	<mailman.927.1082665370.20120.python-list@python.org><8AWhc.23114$dZ1.11070@fed1read04>	<mailman.939.1082697809.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<no4ic.26268$dZ1.11413@fed1read04>
Message-ID: <408AECC7.7020601@prescod.net>

Mark Hahn wrote:
>...
> 
> My biggest problem right now is stupid aesthetics.  I have to decide where
> to place Prothon on the continuum between lisp and perl.  When I crossed the
> line and added $ for self people screamed bloody murder that it looked like
> Perl.  Before when I had a period for self they thought it looked great.  I
> can't believe how much they care about something so silly.

Yes, people are irrational. But if you care about language popularity 
you have to take that into account. Else you end up with a language that 
never goes mainstream like Lisp.

  Paul Prescod



From skip at pobox.com  Sat Apr 24 12:55:40 2004
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Sat, 24 Apr 2004 11:55:40 -0500
Subject: site.py
In-Reply-To: <dclic.13880183$Of.2311527@news.easynews.com>
References: <dclic.13880183$Of.2311527@news.easynews.com>
Message-ID: <16522.39948.407186.498424@montanaro.dyndns.org>


    Chad> I have a patch / feature enhancement for python that affects
    Chad> site.py.  Is there a moderator for this file?

    Chad> From what I have read, my code doesnt seem to fit into a PEP, its
    Chad> not a bug fix either.  This is why I wanted to see if a moderator
    Chad> could answer some questions.

Submit a patch to the Python project on SourceForge.

Skip



From junkmail at solumslekt.org  Tue Apr 27 10:09:02 2004
From: junkmail at solumslekt.org (Leif B. Kristensen)
Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2004 16:09:02 +0200
Subject: Is it possible to choose a better way?
References: <uWsjc.266188$Pk3.103061@pd7tw1no>
Message-ID: <gQtjc.426$id.6246@news2.e.nsc.no>

Alpha wrote:

> Although there might not be anything wrong with simple honest work
> Ask yourself if you would prefer smarter work, that produces more, or
> simpler work, that produces less?

> To receive fast confidential delivery send 10* to:

Yeah, everyone who wants to know how to get money for nothing can just
send me 10 bucks in an envelope.

How it actually works is left as an exercise for the reader.

regards,
-- 
Leif Biberg Kristensen
http://solumslekt.org/
Validare necesse est


From rebirth at orcon.net.nz  Fri Apr  9 06:20:34 2004
From: rebirth at orcon.net.nz (David McNab)
Date: Fri, 09 Apr 2004 22:20:34 +1200
Subject: ANN: SPIRO - a cPython->Jython bridge (amongst other uses)
Message-ID: <407678F2.1000509@orcon.net.nz>

Hi,

Announcing SPIRO - an easy cPython to Java bridge.

Background:

I spent some time looking for ways to interface between python and java.

Jython is great - but it comes at a price where one must forego all 
python modules containing binaries.

Pyro is great too - but presently cannot support running servers under 
jython.

I tried JPE - but its brittleness rules it out for distributing code to 
others.

So I gave up and wrote a new ORB myself:
SPIRO - Simple Python Interface to Remote Objects
http://www.freenet.org.nz/python/spiro

SPIRO allows cPython programs to manipulate Java objects via jython.
While it's not exactly CORBA-compliant, it is an easy and simple way to 
bridge between cPython and Java, with the advantage that it doesn't 
require any binary compilation.

The server-side of SPIRO can be easily built into a standalone .jar 
file, which together with the cPython Spiro client class, will give your 
cPython programs access to the full catalogue of java software.

Please note - this is an early alpha release, so stability is not 
guaranteed. If you're a tinkerer, and you feel like joining the 
development effort, let me know and I'll open a sourceforge account.

Present limitations - no support for subclassing Java objects in 
cPython, no support for exceptions.

Cheers
David



From paul at prescod.net  Mon Apr  5 05:57:50 2004
From: paul at prescod.net (Paul Prescod)
Date: Mon, 05 Apr 2004 02:57:50 -0700
Subject: Type checking inside a C extension
In-Reply-To: <c4qdfh$2l5b73$1@ID-180326.news.uni-berlin.de>
References: <c4qdfh$2l5b73$1@ID-180326.news.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <40712D9E.3050802@prescod.net>

Jon Perez wrote:
> 
 > The problem is that neither PyLong_AsLong() nor
 > PyString_AsString() does any type checking so the
 > interpreter crashes when I try to use the values
 > returned by PyLong_AsLong() and PyString_AsString() if
 > they happen to be fed objects - the tuple elements in
 > this case - of the wrong type.

It isn't true that PyLong_AsLong does no type checking. It does. It 
reports problems through the standard Python exception system.

> I could certainly do a type check using PyLong_Check() and 
> PyString_Check() on the tuple items and raise a TypeError exception 
> to avoid leading to a crash, but I am concerned about the speed hit 
> as this is the innermost loop of a routine which gets called really
> often (I use it for text block transfers).


PyLong_Check is pretty cheap:

#define PyObject_TypeCheck(ob, tp) \
         ((ob)->ob_type == (tp) || PyType_IsSubtype((ob)->ob_type, (tp)))
#define PyLong_Check(op) PyObject_TypeCheck(op, &PyLong_Type)

Note that it is basically just a dereference and comparison check. I 
wouldn't worry about that even in an inner loop.

> Is there a less expensive way to check the type, or somehow
> avoid a crashing situation (i.e. an exception gets properly raised)
> without calling PyLong_Check() and PyString_Check() the elements
> of each and every tuple?

I would usually use Pyrex for a job like this. But barring that, I often 
use its output to remember how to do little Python/C things. Given this 
input program:

def foo(b):
         cdef int a
         a = b

it generates code like this:

   /* "/private/tmp/foo.pyx":3 */
   __pyx_1 = PyInt_AsLong(__pyx_v_b);
   if (PyErr_Occurred()) {error handling and return}

By PyErr_Occurred() is a real function call and is probably slower than 
PyLong_Check.

  Paul Prescod





From exarkun at divmod.com  Wed Apr  7 12:20:19 2004
From: exarkun at divmod.com (exarkun at divmod.com)
Date: Wed, 07 Apr 2004 16:20:19 GMT
Subject: python thread scheduler?
Message-ID: <20040407162019.28169.252570721.divmod.quotient.10@ohm>

On Wed, 07 Apr 2004 11:27:58 +0100, project2501 <project2501 at project2501.cor> wrote:

>

> to clarifgy, i'm seeing responec times as low as 0.3 seconds when the

> client has 5 worker threads... rising to an average of about 8 seconds

> with 50 threads... and more ith 100 threads.

> 



  The CPython interpreter utilizes a global lock which prevents more than one Python thread from running at any particular time.  You will not see performance scale well with large numbers of threads (indeed, performance will probably be worse).



  Threads which do not run Python code (for example, code in an extension module) can release the global interpreter lock to take advantage of multiple CPUs.  An alternative is to use concurrency without using threads.  It sounds like you are working on a network server, so I would recommend taking a look at Twisted:



    http://www.twistedmatrix.com/



  Jp






From peter at engcorp.com  Tue Apr 20 20:23:37 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 20:23:37 -0400
Subject: md5.hexdigest() converting unicode string to ascii
In-Reply-To: <77b925de.0404201516.7941cd83@posting.google.com>
References: <77b925de.0404151450.5c1f720a@posting.google.com><c5ohp8$fqf$1@absinth.dialog.net.pl><mailman.687.1082117438.20120.python-list@python.org><c5om3d$iu4$1@absinth.dialog.net.pl>	<77b925de.0404161337.3917ef56@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.727.1082181832.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<77b925de.0404201516.7941cd83@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <XLmdnefkb_yUIhjdRVn-sw@powergate.ca>

uebertester wrote:

> I've attempted the suggested solution specifying different encodings,
> however, the hash value that is returned does not match what I expect
> based upon another utility I'm checking against.  Hash value returned
> by python specifying utf16 encoding: 731f46dd88cb3a67a4ee1392aa84c6f4
> .  Hash value returned by other utility:
> 0b0ebc769e2b89cf61a10a72d5a11dda .  Note:  I've tried other encoding
> also.  As the utility I'm verifying against is extensively used, I'm
> assuming it is returning the correct value.  

If this utility is so extensively used, it's almost certain
that someone, somewhere, knows precisely what encoding scheme
was used for Unicode strings.  Isn't there documentation on
how it calculates the hash?  Source code?  An expert?  A
vendor?

This is not exactly something that is standardized or obvious,
so it seems very unlikely they just picked some weird scheme
and didn't note anywhere what they did.

It's not, however, a Python question at this point, so you've
probably got no choice but to search elsewhere.  (What is the
utility, by the way?)

-Peter


From ngps at netmemetic.com  Wed Apr  7 19:54:53 2004
From: ngps at netmemetic.com (Ng Pheng Siong)
Date: 7 Apr 2004 23:54:53 GMT
Subject: Zope - how to import whole folder at once?
References: <c51m68$ok4$1@flis.man.torun.pl>
Message-ID: <c524cd$hsb$1@reader01.singnet.com.sg>

According to Lukasz Indyk  <dyzma at mat.uni.torun.pl>:
> i have existing web site (written in html and javascript only, no php 
> etc.), and i want to integrate it with zope. i can add every page, image 
> etc. one by one using import, but i would like to add it at once.

LocalFS, a Zope product, lets Zope serve files directly from the
filesystem.

For bonus points you might want to then export the LocalFS folder to a
Zope zexp file for subsequent reimport into ZODB. (I haven't tried this.
Dunno if it works.)

Look for it on zope.org.

-- 
Ng Pheng Siong <ngps at netmemetic.com> 

http://firewall.rulemaker.net -+- Firewall Change Management & Version Control
http://sandbox.rulemaker.net/ngps -+- Open Source Python Crypto & SSL


From grante at visi.com  Tue Apr 27 18:05:44 2004
From: grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards)
Date: 27 Apr 2004 22:05:44 GMT
Subject: Don't understand wxPython ids
Message-ID: <408ed938$0$17263$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>

I've decided to learn wxPython, and I'm afraid I just don't
grok the whole "id" thing where you have to pull unique
integers out of your, er, the air and then use those to refer
to objects:

>From whe wxPython wiki examples:

  self.button =wxButton(self, 10, "Save", wxPoint(200, 325))
  EVT_BUTTON(self, 10, self.OnClick)

Does the 10 have any function other than as a handle that
allows you to refer to self.button in the EVT* call?

You're supposed to just make up unique id numbers for objects
when a) they've already got unique id numbers [at least the id
builtin thinks so] and b) they've got names that make things
even more readable? 

This feels very assmebly-level.  No, it's even worse than
assembly language, since even assembly language has labels and
symbols.

Why not this:

  self.button =wxButton(self, 10, "Save", wxPoint(200, 325))
  EVT_BUTTON(self, self.button, self.OnClick)

Or better yet this:  

  self.button =wxButton(self, 10, "Save", wxPoint(200, 325), action=self.OnClick)

This last way seems pretty intuitive...

Can somebody clue me in on the advantages of the
progrmmer-generated integer id numbers for objects?
  
-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow!  Now KEN and BARBIE
                                  at               are PERMANENTLY ADDICTED to
                               visi.com            MIND-ALTERING DRUGS...


From simoninusa2001 at yahoo.co.uk  Tue Apr 20 14:20:04 2004
From: simoninusa2001 at yahoo.co.uk (simo)
Date: 20 Apr 2004 11:20:04 -0700
Subject: wxListCtrl with CheckBox?
References: <30260531.0404092256.6b58e3a1@posting.google.com>
	<c59hmk$gru$2@news.service.uci.edu>
Message-ID: <30260531.0404201020.58660a46@posting.google.com>

Josiah Carlson <jcarlson at uci.edu> wrote:

> > I've got a report list and want to have a checkbox in the last column
> > of each row.

> Use wx.Grid, it can place checkboxes in cells.

I can't get that to work either, and I certainly can't get the grid
cells to line up with the listctrl rows anyway.

This is really holding up my program now, to move on any further I
really need some way of having a checkbox at the end of every row of a
few listctrl's.

I can't believe this hasn't already been written - someone must have
needed to have a "delete row" checkbox or button in a report
before.....

The only thing I can think of now is some sort of dynamic GridSizer
that works out the position of every row, but that's really nasty.


From jack at performancedrivers.com  Fri Apr 16 18:04:07 2004
From: jack at performancedrivers.com (Jack Diederich)
Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2004 18:04:07 -0400
Subject: CamelCase versus wide_names (Prothon)
In-Reply-To: <b9Afc.9345$dZ1.7703@fed1read04>
References: <UHxfc.9323$dZ1.3740@fed1read04>
	<407ec022$0$54153$1b2cd167@news.wanadoo.nl>
	<roy-C4FD90.13444715042004@reader2.panix.com>
	<b9Afc.9345$dZ1.7703@fed1read04>
Message-ID: <20040416220407.GB794@performancedrivers.com>

On Thu, Apr 15, 2004 at 11:05:29AM -0700, Mark Hahn wrote:
> 
> "Roy Smith" <roy at panix.com> wrote...
> 
> > It's entirely unclear how any of the above should influence your
> > decisions on language design :-)
> 
> It may not technically be part of the language design, but aesthic issues
> like this need to be decided up front or they will be decided randomly.
> Users on the Prothon mailing list were asking me (I'm the BDFL there) to
> change from wide_names to camelCase and I wasn't letting them, because
> Python used wide_names and I have a rule about following Python unless there
> is a good reason to change.
> 
> Then I came here and asked and to my surprise I'm finding out that 100% of
> python users want camelCase.  This kind of blows away my argument against
> it.  So camelCase it will be.
> 
> Now I'll go through all the Python method and var names and convert them all
> to camelCase for Prothon.  It shouldn't be a problem for users since the
> conversion is mechanical.
<blood curdling scream>Noooooo!</bcs>

As others have pointed out down the thread, don't just go on the first
several replies.

I'm a wide_case_fanboy, having done mixedCase and wide_names over the last
fifteen years.  It all comes down to personal preference, of course.  IMO
mixedCase people tend to be younger, and younger people tend to be more
zealous on newsgroups.

I'm also a native English speaker, so this_looks_like_words while
thisLooksAwkward.  I can read/write both and do depending on who is paying
for the project, but I much prefer the underscores.  I can also type 100+
words per minute (much faster than I can think) so I'm limited by figuring
out what I want to do and not by hitting shift-minus.

Mixed case works fine on two word variables because twoWords are as easy
to read as two_words.  But it gets painful forLongerVariableNames.
I'm a big fan of descriptive names and since mixed case seems to discourage them
when N > 2 that is enough reason to dislike it.

My assertion that mixed case fanboys are young and therefore loud while
at the same time being too inexperienced to know the difference is harsh and
I'm sure a 65 year old programmer will post as a counter example.  They
are called stereotypes because they work /most/ of the time, if they worked
/all/ of the time they would just call them truths. *wink*

-jackdied



From jcarlson at uci.edu  Mon Apr 26 03:33:46 2004
From: jcarlson at uci.edu (Josiah Carlson)
Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2004 00:33:46 -0700
Subject: Python editors for Windows question
In-Reply-To: <6ee58e07.0404220803.24aeefe1@posting.google.com>
References: <D6Ahc.2737911$iA2.315963@news.easynews.com>
	<mailman.902.1082618931.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<6ee58e07.0404220803.24aeefe1@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <c6ie7p$rt9$1@news.service.uci.edu>

> But keep in mind that auto-completion is by concepts miles away from
> what you see in Java. The problem for us who try to implement this
> feature is always that most people don't understand why this is
> impossible in a dynamically typed language.

Not quite impossible, but very difficult.  It is impossible in a 
practical sense for editors that don't use a parser capable of creating 
an abstract syntax tree (generally compiler.ast or the tokenizer module 
are used in editors written in Python).

Furthermore, it usually involves questions like "how many levels of 
imports should we deal with, and how much namespace emulation should be 
done", which involves potentially expensive namespace creation, 
modification, and later recreation ("from module import *" becoming 
"import module" being one of them) in more than a single level of 
namespace.  Quite an ugly problem that you're hard-pressed to find an 
editor (for dynamically typed languages) with a decent implementation.

WingIDE's method for getting past some inference checks is nifty, though 
I would be a bit irked if I used autocompletion (I don't) and needed to 
pepper my code with (unneeded) assert statements just to get it to work 
all the time.

  - Josiah


From a-steinhoff at web.de  Fri Apr  2 08:23:08 2004
From: a-steinhoff at web.de (Armin Steinhoff)
Date: Fri, 02 Apr 2004 15:23:08 +0200
Subject: Just magic ...
In-Reply-To: <c4jfh6$6pa$07$1@news.t-online.com>
References: <ddc19db7.0404011238.e6c2db9@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.249.1080853115.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<c4jfh6$6pa$07$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <c4jstp$3vq$00$1@news.t-online.com>

root wrote:
> Jeff Epler wrote:
> 
>> I don't know, and since the code you posted doesn't run I can't find
>> out.
> 
> 
> #it's only a subset of the code ...
> 
> class SlaveParSet(QDialog):
>     def __init__(self,parent = None, name=None, modal = 0, fl = 0,
>                  Conf='PROFIBUS', saddr= 0):
> 
>         if name == None:
>             self.setName('SlaveParSet')
> 
>         self.config_name=conf
>         self.slave_addr = saddr
> 
>         self.gsd_connect = sqlite.connect("gsd_db")
>         self.gsd_curs    = self.gsd_connect.cursor()
> 
>         # open project data base
>         self.prj_connect = sqlite.connect("proj_db")
>         self.prj_curs    = self.prj_connect.cursor()
> 
>         self.ID = ''
>         self.IMpos = 0
> 
> 
>     # insert selected module into installed modules
>     def ModuleSelectionval(self, nr):
>         module = str(self.ModuleSelection.text(nr))
> 
>         #rebuild pos/module relationship
>         Sel = str("""select mod_pos, mod_name, proj, saddr,
>                      mod_config_data, mod_prm_data
>                      from INSTMODULE where proj= %s and saddr = %s""")
>         Key = (self.config_name, self.slave_addr)
>         self.prj_curs.execute(Sel, Key)
>         ins_list = self.prj_curs.fetchall()
> 
> #ins_list is a list and contains now one tuple
> 
>         if len(ins_list):
>            self.IMpos +=1
>            InsPos = self.IMpos
> 
>            Ins = str("""insert into INSTMODULE(mod_pos, mod_name, proj,
>                         saddr, mod_config_data, mod_prm_data)
>                         values (%s, %s, %s, %s, %s, %s)""")
> 
>            self.IMpos =0
>            for set in ins_list:
>               setdata = (self.IMpos,) +  set[1:]
> 
> # set should reference a tuple but it refers to class instance .. WHY??

 >>> set.__class__
<class sqlite.main.PgResultSetConcreteClass at 0x4164914c>
 >>>

So why is 'set' ( a local var of a procedure defined in the class 
SetSlavePar ) now a 'class instance' of the class sqlite ??

Armin


> 
>               self.prj_curs.execute(Ins, setdata)
>               self.InstModules.insertItem(set[1], self.IMpos)
>               self.IMpos +=1
>               if InsPos == self.IMpos:
>                  self.InstModules.insertItem(new_item[1], self.IMpos)
>                  self.prj_curs.execute(self.Ins, new_item)
>                  self.IMpos +=1
>            if self.IMpos > 0:
>               self.IMpos -= 1
> 
>            self.InstModules.setCurrentItem(self.IMpos)
>            self.prj_connect.commit()
>         else:
>            self.IMpos = 0
>            self.InstModules.clear()
>            self.InstModules.insertItem(module, self.IMpos)
>            self.InstModules.setCurrentItem(self.IMpos)
> 
> 
> 
>>
>>
>>>>> self.IMpos =0
>>
>>
>> Traceback (most recent call last):
>>   File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
>> NameError: name 'self' is not defined
>>
>> Jeff
>>


From imbosol at aerojockey.com  Wed Apr 14 19:41:31 2004
From: imbosol at aerojockey.com (Carl Banks)
Date: 14 Apr 2004 16:41:31 -0700
Subject: Difficulty Finding Python Developers
References: <65cbc3dd.0404140641.3501fde8@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <60dfb6f6.0404141541.79cbb54f@posting.google.com>

pm_mon at yahoo.com (Paul Morrow) wrote in message news:<65cbc3dd.0404140641.3501fde8 at posting.google.com>...
> We've worked hard to convince our company to migrate our core
> applications to Python, and now we're looking for a Python developer
> in Atlanta to handle a short-term (approx. 3 month) project.  But our
> initial searches have been fairly unsuccessful.  We haven't actually
> posted a job on Monster, but we have been talking with various
> headhunters in our area and they don't have many resumes that show
> Python experience.  An so now, of course, mgt is wondering whether
> selecting Python was a mistake.
> 
> As anyone had a similar experience?  Suggestions?

Yeah, relocate.  :)

Seriously, it seems to me that headhunters are machines designed to
funnel in the drones colleges spit out.  I don't think they're all
that interested, or knowledgable, of less common skills.  I think
you'll have luck posting the job on Monster.

Also, I agree with Peter Hanson here.  I am very amazed (although not
surprised at all) that firms are often reluctant to switch to a
language like Python because there are relatively few people with
experience in it.  C and C++ are so bug-prone (buffer overruns,
anyone? segfaults?) I think it would be in a firm's best interests to
hire those C and C++ drones and train them for Python; the cost of
training someone in Python probably would more than offset the cost of
fixing all those bugs.


-- 
CARL BANKS


From jzgoda at gazeta.usun.pl  Sat Apr 10 18:57:25 2004
From: jzgoda at gazeta.usun.pl (Jarek Zgoda)
Date: Sat, 10 Apr 2004 22:57:25 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Python is the best and most popular general purpose scripting
	language; the universal scripting language
References: <a5415304.0404101350.271088f2@posting.google.com>
	<roy-22B4DA.18282210042004@reader1.panix.com>
Message-ID: <c59u4k$ki9$1@atlantis.news.tpi.pl>

Roy Smith <roy at panix.com> pisze:

> So, what makes something a "scripting language" as opposed to a 
> "programming language"?

I think the opposition of "scripting language" would be "general purpose
language", not "programming language".

-- 
Jarek Zgoda
http://jpa.berlios.de/


From pcaffrey at iel.ie  Thu Apr  1 10:04:13 2004
From: pcaffrey at iel.ie (Paul)
Date: 1 Apr 2004 07:04:13 -0800
Subject: recursive acquire of GIL
Message-ID: <bfef2a62.0404010704.36c068d3@posting.google.com>

Hi

I have seen this discussed already on the newgroup but 
have not seen if the problem is solved

Using embedded python in c++ we use
    PyEval_RestoreThread(context);
to acquire the GIL.

We then use swig to call back into c++ which again 
calls out to python
Essentially we have
c++ -> python -> c++ -> python

The second RestoreThread uses a different python context of course.
However it hangs

    PyEval_RestoreThread(context2);
is hanging.

We're using python 2.2.1

Has a solution to this been added to later versions?

Regards

Paul


From mcfletch at rogers.com  Thu Apr 22 16:21:59 2004
From: mcfletch at rogers.com (Mike C. Fletcher)
Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2004 16:21:59 -0400
Subject: Why we will use obj$func() often
In-Reply-To: <84Uhc.22278$dZ1.5087@fed1read04>
References: <d2Uhc.22272$dZ1.1600@fed1read04> <84Uhc.22278$dZ1.5087@fed1read04>
Message-ID: <40882967.3000209@rogers.com>

Mark Hahn wrote:

>My apologies.  I posted this to c.l.p. by accident.   I meant to post this
>to Prothon-users.
>  
>
Oh, no problem, there's some Python content (see below for some comments 
on it)...
...

>># Python
>>
>>class klass:
>>    def __init__(self):
>>        self.me = 1
>>    def func(self):
>>        print "func1,self"+str(self.me),
>>
>>class klass2(klass):
>>    def __init__(self):
>>        self.me = 2
>>    def func(self):
>>        klass.func(self)        # delegation
>>        print "func2,self"+str(self.me),
>>
>>inst = klass2()
>>inst.func()    # prints  func1,self2   func2,self2
>>
>>    
>>
...

>>In Python the call klass.func() was different because Python knows that
>>klass is a class and therefore obviously cannot be the target of call (an
>>instance), so it made the programmer pass the instance self to use as a
>>parameter.
>>    
>>
This isn't really a very clear description of what's going on in 
Python.  It won't matter to the Prothon users, but don't want any Python 
users to get confused...

    Looking up klass.func returns an unbound instance method, this is a
    function wrapper which basically just says "hey, you're a member
    function of a class, check to be sure that your first argument is a
    member of that class".  This is done by the function's descriptor
    hooks which allow it to return a wrapped object when the user
    attempts to retrieve the value from another object (such as a class
    or an instance).  So, in a sense, yes, the class cannot be the
    target of that *particular* call, as the unbound method object you
    retrieved will reject anything other than an instance of the class.

    Bound instance methods are a similar wrapper, but they say
    "curry/bind your first argument (normally self) to this value then
    call the underlying function".  They are created on object.method
    access by the same function descriptor hooks.

The point of all that being that classes most definitely *can* be the 
target of a call.  Python's classes are first-class objects.  In 
particular, they are instances of metaclasses, and can have meta-methods 
defined which take the class as their first parameter just like a normal 
method-call.

 >>> class k(type):
...     def r( cls ):
...         return 42
...    
 >>> class x:
...     __metaclass__ = k
...    
 >>> x.r()
42
 >>>

There's very little "special" about classes other than that they have 
some syntactic shortcuts for creating them and for looking up attributes 
of their instances within them.  Python isn't looking at every method 
call and saying "hey, that's a class, that can't be the first parameter 
to a function/method!", it (particularly the unbound instance object) is 
saying "hey, you're not an instance of my class, go to heck" and never 
thinks about whether the object is *particularly* a class or not.

Classes are special in Python, but not nearly as special as you might 
think from a class-less perspective :) ,
Mike

    By the way, the modern Python idiom is:

        super( klass2, self ).func( )

    but that wouldn't help in explaining the logic for the Prothon
    choice, so no biggie :) .

_______________________________________
  Mike C. Fletcher
  Designer, VR Plumber, Coder
  http://members.rogers.com/mcfletch/





From video at esfera.cl  Thu Apr  1 12:16:52 2004
From: video at esfera.cl (Cristian Hasbun from Chile)
Date: 1 Apr 2004 09:16:52 -0800
Subject: Another gen_py coclass_interfaces COM problem
References: <d4948d36.0403151615.229d6490@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <d4948d36.0404010916.273af225@posting.google.com>

Still Waiting

video at esfera.cl (Cristian Hasbun from Chile) wrote in message news:<d4948d36.0403151615.229d6490 at posting.google.com>...
> I need a win32com guru please...
> 
> i'm not python expert, but i understand mi trouble...
> 
> Requirements:
>  Hook EyesWeb 3.2.0 (http://www.eyesweb.org) COM Module with Python
> 2.0.1
>  i used win32com libraries and generate an early binding for module
> (using prog_id)
> 
> the problem is the file generated has a Class EyeswebSystem that is a
> CoClassBaseClass with coclass_interfaces Like IEywApplication that is
> a DispatchBaseClass...
> 
> after reading other post with similar problem i saw that the other
> problems are about coclass_interfaces with objects DispatchBaseClass
> only...
> 
> i try 
> 
> """
> import win32com.client
> Eyes=win32com.client.Dispatch('Eyesweb.Remotesystem')
> App=win32com.client.Dispatch(Eyes,resultCLSID='{clsid}')
> """
> 
> an have more accurate result
> 
> """
> >>> Eyes
>  <COMObject Eyesweb.Remotesystem>
> >>> App
> <win32com.gen_py.EyesWeb System.IEywApplication instance at
> 0x19740672>
> """
> 
> but i can't reach "EyesWeb System.IEywApplication.Methods()" yet
> 
> with diferents try and error, i get com_errors like:
> 'the server threw an exception'
> 'invalid access to memory location'
> 
> here is a link of my gen_py generated file, easy for understand class
> structure of the module with a browse class
> 
> http://www.kitesurf.cl/flash/0971C42C-F8CA-45F1-BC6B-A55F23EE2A40x0x1x0.py
> 
> Sorry my English... Mark Hammond if are you out there give me some
> light


From jepler at unpythonic.net  Mon Apr 12 10:33:58 2004
From: jepler at unpythonic.net (Jeff Epler)
Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2004 09:33:58 -0500
Subject: Problems compiling on a Red Hat 7.3 based system
In-Reply-To: <1081750846.2069.80.camel@p133.douganconsulting.com>
References: <1081750846.2069.80.camel@p133.douganconsulting.com>
Message-ID: <20040412143357.GO6139@unpythonic.net>

I have compiled Python 2.3.3 on a RedHat 7.2 machine, though I didn't
use an RPM.  I'm not sure about the "/lib/cpp fails sanity check"
message, but maybe the second problem is due to a missing package.
I have a <linux/errno.h> on my system:
    $ rpm -qf /usr/include/linux/errno.h
    kernel-headers-2.4.7-10

good luck

Jeff



From mark at prothon.org  Fri Apr 23 13:55:55 2004
From: mark at prothon.org (Mark Hahn)
Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2004 10:55:55 -0700
Subject: Why we will use obj$func() often
References: <d2Uhc.22272$dZ1.1600@fed1read04> <84Uhc.22278$dZ1.5087@fed1read04>
	<mailman.927.1082665370.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<8AWhc.23114$dZ1.11070@fed1read04> <40883BFE.B381518A@alcyone.com>
	<27_hc.23801$dZ1.2716@fed1read04> <40887145.789A2FE8@alcyone.com>
	<WqWdnfW7RpSmhRTdRVn-uw@speakeasy.net>
Message-ID: <MMcic.28546$dZ1.18087@fed1read04>


"A.M. Kuchling" <amk at amk.ca> wrote in message
news:WqWdnfW7RpSmhRTdRVn-uw at speakeasy.net...
> On Thu, 22 Apr 2004 18:28:37 -0700,
> Erik Max Francis <max at alcyone.com> wrote:
> > Being a fan of Io, I think prototype-languages are interesting.  Even so
> > far, I lost interest in looking at the actual main feature of Prothon,
> > after seeing all the extra baggage that was brought on in unecessary
> > stylistic changes.
>
> There's a rule in experiments that you should only change one thing at a
> time, trying to answer a single question with each change. Prothon started
> out asking two questions:

Well, we didn't really start out to ask questions.  We started out to design
a new language.  We happened to like Python so we stole most of the syntax
from Python.  Tim Peters and some other Pythoneers saw the existence of
Prothon as an opportunity to get some of these questions answered though for
Python.

> * Does implementing an interpreter on top of the Apache Portable Runtime
>   for the sake of free threading work?  (Presumably the answer is yes,
since
>   Prothon does run.  I haven't seen performance numbers on Prothon,
though.)
> * Is prototyping a workable replacement for a class-based object system?
>   Unclear, since I don't know that anyone has written sizable systems
>   in Prothon yet.
>
> The problem is that if you then make a whole bunch of additional
changes --

> a 'with' statement,

This was required.  Not having a class statement meant there was no way to
group the definition of functions and other attribute assignments together
when building a prototype or even a plain object.  When playing with early
versions of the language it was unusable without the "with".

> changing the rules for indenting

Actually no rules changed for indenting.  Well, we added a rule that you
couldn't mix tabs and spaces within a single block, but that is not an
unreasonable requirement.  We also added a new way to do continuations, but
that is optional.

> changing the names of various built-in methods

The names are totally unchanged. We just changed the style to camelCase and
added ! and ? for readability.  These are all mechanical changes and no
memorization is required.

> it becomes harder for Python users to try out
> the new language for a while because there are more changes they have to
> cope with.  After a certain point the number of crossover users dwindles
to
> near-zero.

Yes, many people are afraid to try new things.  That is a shame.  Of course
if it was identical to Python many people still wouldn't try it.

I think everyone here is operating under fear, uncertainty, and doubt.  Most
of the reports on the Prothon mailing list of people who have actually
picked up Prothon and played with it have been happy.  People look at the
surface and are prejudiced, just like looking at people with different skin
color.

The best example is the current suggestion that self be changed to the
dollar-sign.  Now anyone with any intelligence knows that changing the 4
letters "self" to the one symbol $ does nothing to change the language, but
several people here on c. l. p. claim that because you see dollar-signs
Prothon has now "become Perl".  That is narrow-minded prejudice.  What's
funny is that many people were happy with the current Prothon's use of
period for self but object to dollar-sign because now it looks like Perl.
Go figure.

> None of these changes is critical or results in a 100%
> improvement in functionality (or even a 10% one), but their collective
> effect is to make the distance too great to cross conveniently; you might
as
> well start a new language with a blank sheet of paper at that point.

Don't forget that we are not claiming to be Python.  We intended from the
beginning to be a new language.  We are using everything from Python that
isn't broken, and we get to define what is broken in Python :)

We are definitely fighting a battle to improve things while keeping the best
of Python.  There is no way to make everyone happy.  There have been people
who have come to our mailing list whose "suggestions" for Prothon were to
basicly keep Prothon exactly like Python and not change anything.  There are
also people who claim that any change from the Self language means that it
is not a real Prototype-based language.  And of course a smattering of
people who claim it must be like Lisp :)




From jjl at pobox.com  Sat Apr 17 20:15:00 2004
From: jjl at pobox.com (John J. Lee)
Date: 18 Apr 2004 01:15:00 +0100
Subject: Arbitary VTABLE/Python
References: <mailman.665.1082064333.20120.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <87isfy5egr.fsf@pobox.com>

John Smith <skjj at earthlink.net> writes:
[...]
> We have very,very large C++ applications
> that talk to third part COM based server(s),
> both in-proc & out-of-proc 
> 
> - For large arbitary vtable based interfaces, 
> what is the best approach from Python?
> 
> We looked at FAQs, DOCs (including ActiveState), WEB
> searches, and saw references to SWIG, PythonCOM extensions
> BOOST.Python etc, and some problems people have reported using arbitary
> vtable interfaces from PythonCOM (BTW: where is are DOCs on
> one using/creating PythonCOM extensions? From our
> WEB searhces, it looks like 'makepy' may not
> work under all situations?)
[...]

makepy applies only to IDispatch-based interfaces.  PythonCOM doesn't
call arbitrary vtable interfaces yet (unless it has very recently
grown that ability).  It has, only quite recently, acquired the
ability to implement arbitrary vtable interfaces.  Of course, you can
always write an extension in C or C++, and integrate that with
win32all, but that's a bore, and I'm not sure it's a well-documented
process.

(Just to clear up any possible confusion: PythonCOM is part of
win32all (which itself is also bundled with ActiveState's Python
distribution, if they're still doing that).  Mind you, I can never
remember whether PythonCOM is an internal part of win32all, or an
umbrella name for win32all's COM functionality, or what... so I always
just say 'win32all', or win32com, if I specifically mean that module
:-)

So, win32all is nice, but it doesn't do what you want (call arbitrary
vtable COM interfaces), at least without doing some wrapping and
knowing about win32com's / pythoncom's internals.

The most Pythonic route is ctypes.

ctypes is quite elegant, thin and small (in contrast to win32all).
It's still fairly new, but because it's relatively small, if you've
got highly experienced COM developers on board, I'd imagine you're not
going to struggle too much with any problems that do crop up.  I used
an earlier release and bumped into two bugs when I played with it, but
found they were already fixed in CVS.  It's more stable now (6 months
or more since the version I used was released).  Recent testimony:

http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/2004-April/214912.html


The other way is to write your client code in C++, then wrap it.
Boost Python is pretty much the standard way to do that for Python.
I've never used it.  I guess it's useful as an insurance policy if
ctypes fails at some task for you.  I think Mark Hammond (primary
win32all author) )has his own ways of wrapping COM interfaces, but
whether they're suitable for public consumption I don't know.

If my goal were at all related to C++, I wouldn't use SWIG, unless it
has advanced quite a bit since I last looked (a year or so ago).
Boost Python is generally agreed to be a better solution unless you
need to expose things to multiple scripting languages.


John


From timr at probo.com  Sun Apr 11 00:09:27 2004
From: timr at probo.com (Tim Roberts)
Date: Sat, 10 Apr 2004 21:09:27 -0700
Subject: Non-math-geek needs help with CRCs (binascii.crc32)
References: <4073c865$0$27642$61ce578d@news.syd.swiftdsl.com.au>
	<slrnc7820b.o9j.ncw@irishsea.home.craig-wood.com>
	<40751603$0$27643$61ce578d@news.syd.swiftdsl.com.au>
	<g5dc705l6q9sa0pf9do4sab0bn7kuepajs@4ax.com>
	<4076ff3d$0$27642$61ce578d@news.syd.swiftdsl.com.au>
Message-ID: <f6hh701faip5ghl910co517i7on0eloij1@4ax.com>

"nobody" <get at bent.com> wrote:

>> >Somehow, depending on how the numbers are massaged, the old code based on
>> >$EDB88320 is compatible with what the above site documents as $04C11DB7.
>> Did you notice that those two numbers are mirror images of each other?
>> Could just be a difference in interpretation.
>
>How does one get the same result with a reflected and non-reflected
>algorithm using the exact same input?

Well, what I was saying was that perhaps the two algorithms are doing their
computations in the opposite order.  It's just suspicious that they are
reflections of each other.
-- 
- Tim Roberts, timr at probo.com
  Providenza & Boekelheide, Inc.


From ed-no at spam-eepatents.com  Thu Apr  8 20:27:01 2004
From: ed-no at spam-eepatents.com (Ed Suominen)
Date: Thu, 08 Apr 2004 17:27:01 -0700
Subject: Tcl/Tk extension access from python under windows
References: <HFfdc.657$AT3.293@charlie.risq.qc.ca>
Message-ID: <kOednQvE6dtFcOjdRVn-uw@centurytel.net>

Marcel Achim wrote:
> I found a tcl extension that does exactly what I need to access a DLL
> and it would require a large amount of SWIG glue to generate an
> equivalent python extension.

Wow... in nearly three years of programming with TCL (something I now
regret), I've had the *opposite* experience too many times to count. That's
one of the reasons I recently switched to Python -- I got sick of searching
for TCL packages and finding mostly nothing but "Page Not Found" 404 Errors
or ancient, bit-rotted code.

Now that I've been learning Python and exploring the wonders of OOP, I am
kicking myself for learning a "simple" language to make things "easier."
HA!

-Ed Suominen


From newsuser at itgoesclick.com  Tue Apr 20 10:53:16 2004
From: newsuser at itgoesclick.com (Noah from IT Goes Click)
Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 14:53:16 GMT
Subject: initialization object
In-Reply-To: <cab22418.0404191922.30975961@posting.google.com>
References: <cab22418.0404191922.30975961@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <wPahc.189369$oR5.174903@pd7tw3no>

Have 2 modules a wrapper and then the foundation. The user can load the 
real module which basically just lets them create an initialization 
object which then sets a bunch of very oddly named globals and then 
loads your desired module which looks for those.. Sort of an icky way of 
doing it but it's not bad


From hungjunglu at yahoo.com  Mon Apr 19 13:02:51 2004
From: hungjunglu at yahoo.com (Hung Jung Lu)
Date: 19 Apr 2004 10:02:51 -0700
Subject: module not callable - why not?
References: <mailman.750.1082328613.20120.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <8ef9bea6.0404190902.78d2a95d@posting.google.com>

"Robert Brewer" <fumanchu at amor.org> wrote in message news:<mailman.750.1082328613.20120.python-list at python.org>...
> Josiah Carlson wrote:
> > Singletons aren't nearly as prevalent as you seem to believe.  
> > ... Truth be told, I've used singletons before, but only once.
> 
> I thought I had twice,
> But now I can see there was
> Only one instance.

Ha. As I have said, "singleton pattern" is symptom of a disease. But
the concept of "singleton" itself, that is, a unique instance of a
class, is ubiquitous. Just about any decent-size program that you
write will have lots of singletons: classes that have one single
instance. Therefore, you have used singletons tons of times. You just
have not followed recipes for "singleton pattern", which is good,
because it is symptom of a disease.

regards,

Hung Jung


From altis at semi-retired.com  Thu Apr 15 12:00:14 2004
From: altis at semi-retired.com (Kevin Altis)
Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2004 09:00:14 -0700
Subject: CamelCase versus wide_names (Prothon)
References: <UHxfc.9323$dZ1.3740@fed1read04>
Message-ID: <Qeyfc.360$kb.30229@news.uswest.net>

If you're using PEP 8 terminology then CamelCase is different than
mixedCase. CamelCase is often used for class names and mixedCase for
everything else.

"""
- CapitalizedWords (or CapWords, or CamelCase -- so named because
      of the bumpy look of its letters[4]).  This is also sometimes known as
      StudlyCaps.

    - mixedCase (differs from CapitalizedWords by initial lowercase
      character!)
"""

ka

"Mark Hahn" <mark at prothon.org> wrote in message
news:UHxfc.9323$dZ1.3740 at fed1read04...
> We have agreed in Prothon that unlike Python we are going to be 100%
> consistant in our var and method naming.  We will not have run-together
> words like iteritems, we are going to always have seperated words like
> has_key.
>
> Now we are in the midst of a discussion of camelCase versus wide_names.
So
> far our arguments are:
>
> 1) CamelCase is more elegant, modern, more readable, and more efficient in
> character usage.
>
> 2) Wide_names is cleaner, more readable, compatible with C, which is the
> standard module language for Python and Prothon.  Wide_names is also the
> Python standard.
>
> Of course in the Python world you alread have wide_names as your standard,
> but could you for the moment pretend you were picking your standard from
> scratch (as we are doing in the Prothon world) and give your vote for
which
> you'd prefer?
>
> Thanks in advance...
>
>




From eddie at holyrood.ed.ac.uk  Wed Apr 21 07:33:09 2004
From: eddie at holyrood.ed.ac.uk (Eddie Corns)
Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2004 11:33:09 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: here document as script and read from stdin
References: <408596DE.10004@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk>
Message-ID: <c65m5l$6ni$1@scotsman.ed.ac.uk>

Robin Becker <robin at SPAMREMOVEjessikat.fsnet.co.uk> writes:

>Is it possible to use python with a shell HERE document as the script 
>and read the standard input? In other words make python usable as a 
>filter with a side input?

>It doesn't seem to be obvous unless I can somehow use the -c option.
>-- 
>Robin Becker


python -c "`cat <<OOK
from sys import stdin
for line in stdin:
  print line.upper(),
  print 'ha ha', "ho ho"
OOK
`"

ie the value of -c can be a complete program as long as you keep the newlines
intact and don't mess up the quotes.  However it would probably be a lot
simpler to copy the script to a temp file and execute that (ignoring
pathological security issues).

(Only tested with bash!)

Eddie


From http  Fri Apr 16 00:59:29 2004
From: http (Paul Rubin)
Date: 15 Apr 2004 21:59:29 -0700
Subject: Difficulty Finding Python Developers
References: <65cbc3dd.0404140641.3501fde8@posting.google.com>
	<5d83790c.0404150701.605782a7@posting.google.com>
	<roy-A17A1C.12565615042004@reader2.panix.com>
	<7xpta8hqe7.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<roy-A844BA.18263715042004@reader2.panix.com>
	<7xsmf4kbac.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<roy-B8AA1E.21270915042004@reader2.panix.com>
	<7x7jwg7ipn.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<GfSdnRKGHIm2_-LdRVn-gg@powergate.ca>
Message-ID: <7xwu4gzff2.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

Peter Hansen <peter at engcorp.com> writes:
> I thought the discussion was a 3-month project.  To me, that's
> definitely not something I would classify as a "serious production
> project".  I know, I know, the length alone shouldn't be enough to
> call it serious or production or not.  It's just not the term I
> would apply to something that short.  "Experiment", maybe, or
> "quickie", or "co-op student project" or something...

It often means "we have a huge deadline in three months and are forced
to bring in contractors because the in-house staff is and
overstretched and not sufficiently up to speed on this stuff".  In
which case the contractor better need zero ramp-up time.


From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Fri Apr 30 20:20:43 2004
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 30 Apr 2004 20:20:43 -0400
Subject: File access and threads
References: <4084b3eb@newsflash.abo.fi> <c64i32$e02$1@panix3.panix.com>
	<40864030$1@newsflash.abo.fi>
Message-ID: <c6uqgr$hhf$1@panix1.panix.com>

In article <40864030$1 at newsflash.abo.fi>,
=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Petter_Holmstr=F6m?=  <peholmst at abo.fi> wrote:
>Aahz wrote:
>> 
>> Could you at least post a full traceback?
>
>Is this enough?

Looking at the code, I'd bet on a permissions problem of some kind.
It's pretty much either that or a bug in the underlying C libraries that
gets exposed by threads -- that's a dirt-simple piece of code, really.
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

"I used to have a .sig but I found it impossible to please everyone..."  --SFJ


From kkto at csis.hku.hk  Sun Apr  4 23:44:46 2004
From: kkto at csis.hku.hk (Isaac To)
Date: Mon, 05 Apr 2004 11:44:46 +0800
Subject: Python is faster than C
References: <mailman.328.1081098989.20120.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <7i3c7jrsup.fsf@enark.csis.hku.hk>

>>>>> "Robert" == Robert Brewer <fumanchu at amor.org> writes:

    Robert> This would not bring joy to not-repeatable iterators... :(

Perhaps the OP likes Haskell more than Python. :)

Regards,
Isaac.


From wweston at att.net  Wed Apr 21 12:21:22 2004
From: wweston at att.net (wes weston)
Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2004 16:21:22 GMT
Subject: This is very simple question
In-Reply-To: <b0457a31.0404210754.2a34b6be@posting.google.com>
References: <b0457a31.0404210754.2a34b6be@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <6cxhc.15285$um3.339900@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>

Eric wrote:
> I would want to obtain a list of factors (multiples of 2) given a
> prime number in python.
> 
> For example 13=[8,4,1], 5=[4,1], 7=[4,2,1], 15=[8,4,2,1]
> 
> I would appreciate a fuction which would do this.
> 
> Eric

Eric,
    Is the last test 17 vs 15?
    With not much checking:
 >>>
13 [8, 4, 1]
5 [4, 1]
7 [4, 2, 1]
17 [16, 1]
 >>>

#------------------------------------------------------------------


import math

#For example 13=[8,4,1], 5=[4,1], 7=[4,2,1], 15=[8,4,2,1]
#For example 13=[8,4,1], 5=[4,1], 7=[4,2,1], 17=[16,1]

def LargestPrimeLessThanOrEqualTo(n):
     i = 0
     while 1:
         x = int(math.pow(2,i))
         if x == n:
             return x
         if x > n:
             return prevx
         prevx = x
         i += 1

def foo(x):
     list = []
     temp = x
     while(temp > 0):
         z = LargestPrimeLessThanOrEqualTo(temp)
         temp -= z
         list.append(z)
     return list

for x in [13,5,7,17]:
     print x,foo(x)

wes





From anton at vredegoor.doge.nl  Sun Apr 18 06:39:49 2004
From: anton at vredegoor.doge.nl (Anton Vredegoor)
Date: Sun, 18 Apr 2004 12:39:49 +0200
Subject: Static Modules...
References: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0404171006210.27811-100000@e5-05.ee.ualberta.ca>
	<mailman.730.1082221828.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<Pine.LNX.4.44.0404171235310.29550-200000@e5-05.ee.ualberta.ca>
	<Pine.LNX.4.44.0404171454070.29550-200000@e5-05.ee.ualberta.ca>
Message-ID: <40825ae1$0$151$3a628fcd@reader2.nntp.hccnet.nl>

Grzegorz Dostatni:

>Here is another version of the autoload module. This is now at 0.3 and
>moving on.

Thanks. Seems to work here under Cygwin (my main Python interactive
shell). What's in a name anyway.

Anton



From peter at engcorp.com  Thu Apr 15 10:11:12 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2004 10:11:12 -0400
Subject: Python style of accessing bools?
In-Reply-To: <mailman.650.1082035141.20120.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.650.1082035141.20120.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <4I2dnfHLZq5iCuPdRVn-uw@powergate.ca>

Jonathon McKitrick wrote:

> I'm trying to avoid leftover C-style in my new Python programs.
> 
> If a class has a boolean property, and I am branching based on that
> property, which of these is preferred?
> 
> if MyClass.boolProp:
> 	<continue>

This is preferred.

> OR
> 
> if MyClass.IsTrueProp():
> 	<continue>
> 
> In other words, do you use accessors or just access the variable directly?

Go with direct access.  If you need to change that in the future
you can switch the attribute to a property and have the equivalent
of isTrueProp() called automatically without having to change any
calling code.

-Peter


From jonas at jonasgalvez.com  Wed Apr 21 12:30:10 2004
From: jonas at jonasgalvez.com (Jonas Galvez)
Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2004 13:30:10 -0300
Subject: Stupid Regex Question
Message-ID: <c667m3$6up$1@sea.gmane.org>

I'm feeling dumb:

str = "<tag>text<innertag>moretext</innertag></tag><tag>text</tag>"

How can I get a list like ["text<innertag>moretext</innertag>",
"text"] using regexes? I'm starting to believe it's not possible.

Yeah, I know about the terror stories about using regexes to parse
HTML, but in this particular case, using a SAX parser would be an
horrendous overhead (I mean, it's a ridiculously simple string).



=-
Jonas Galvez
jonasgalvez.com/blog
macromedia.com/go/team







From gerrit at nl.linux.org  Tue Apr 13 07:08:13 2004
From: gerrit at nl.linux.org (Gerrit)
Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2004 13:08:13 +0200
Subject: A new OS
In-Reply-To: <a8623416.0404120955.520215f2@posting.google.com>
References: <107k441hitt2ld9@corp.supernews.com>
	<a8623416.0404120955.520215f2@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <20040413110813.GA8877@nl.linux.org>

Corey Coughlin wrote:
> "A Evans" <ae> wrote in message news:<107k441hitt2ld9 at corp.supernews.com>...
> > Hello Everyone I am working towards starting a project developing a new
> > Operating System using the Python language (or a derivative thereof). As
> > recommended on this forum I am asking if people are interested in something
> > like this and ask who would be willing to support a project this large.
> > 
> > Any and all ideas are welcome this message is just to see what kind of
> > support this project would recieve

http://sourceforge.net/projects/cleese
http://cleese.sourceforge.net/

I don't believe in it.

Gerrit.

-- 
Weather in Amsterdam Airport Schiphol, Netherlands 13/04 12:25:
	11.0?C Few clouds mostly cloudy wind 3.6 m/s NE (-2 m above NAP)
-- 
Experiences with Asperger's Syndrome:
	EN http://topjaklont.student.utwente.nl/english/
	NL http://topjaklont.student.utwente.nl/



From irmen at -nospam-remove-this-xs4all.nl  Tue Apr 13 13:30:40 2004
From: irmen at -nospam-remove-this-xs4all.nl (Irmen de Jong)
Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2004 19:30:40 +0200
Subject: interpreter limits
In-Reply-To: <m3zn9f95xm.fsf@union.tjtech.com>
References: <m3zn9f95xm.fsf@union.tjtech.com>
Message-ID: <407c23bf$0$570$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>

Joseph T. Bore wrote:

> I dont know a heck of a lot about the implementation of the
> interpreter/vm but would it be possible to implement exec or eval with
> an optional argument, that argument would be a maximum number of byte
> codes the interpreter would execute before throwing an exception.

Interesting. I know it's not of any help but 'back then',
most MUD engines did exactly this (at least, LP and MudOS did).
When a user-written module ran too long, it was aborted, to
avoid hanging the mud :)

--Irmen


From claird at lairds.com  Wed Apr 28 09:58:10 2004
From: claird at lairds.com (Cameron Laird)
Date: Wed, 28 Apr 2004 13:58:10 -0000
Subject: Is Perl *that* good?
References: <c6ich0$c5mee$1@ID-205437.news.uni-berlin.de>
	<XwEjc.31513$Vp5.16074@fe2.columbus.rr.com>
	<108v74768o9sb9f@corp.supernews.com>
	<du7k700w7k5.fsf@mozart.cc.tut.fi>
Message-ID: <108ve3ig6ii5ec@corp.supernews.com>

In article <du7k700w7k5.fsf at mozart.cc.tut.fi>,
Ville Vainio  <ville at spammers.com> wrote:
			.
			.
			.
>not knowing Python. Somehow people acquire weird proconceptions (tcl
>is best for quick uis, perl for string handling, ...) and refuse to
>reconsider them even if the realities that originally created the
>preconceptions have changed, rendering the original claim
>categorically false.
			.
			.
			.
Oh, yes.  A particular concentration of this I know is in Unix
system administration.  People will sometimes stand on their
heads to do things in ways that made a lot of sense in 1994, 
say, but are multiply suboptimal in 2004 (construction of fragile
shell-coded if-file-appears-in-FTP-listing algorithms when any
sane sysad supports ssh and friends, and so on).  Some of the
best books are from the early '90s, and ... well, we get ourselves
into funny states.
-- 

Cameron Laird <claird at phaseit.net>
Business:  http://www.Phaseit.net


From kmmcdonald at wisc.edu  Sun Apr  4 20:10:39 2004
From: kmmcdonald at wisc.edu (Kenneth McDonald)
Date: Mon, 05 Apr 2004 00:10:39 GMT
Subject: So near and yet so far... (trying to install PyQt on OS X)
Message-ID: <slrnc719b7.g82.kmmcdonald@g4.gateway.2wire.net>

I'm trying to get QT, SIP, and PyQt installed so I can try
out the Python editor eric. Both sip and qt appear to have
compiled and installed properly. Unfortunately, PyQt,
after compiling most of the files and starting what I
suspect is the final link step, fails with the follwing
message (I've included a few lines above for context):
---------------
[Kenneth-McDonalds-Computer:~/Downloads/PyQt-mac-gpl-3.11] ken% make
c++ -prebind -dynamiclib -headerpad_max_install_names -install_name 
libqtcmodule.so -framework Python -o libqtcmodule.so qtcmodule.o 
sipqtQWorkspace.o sipqtQWMatrix.o sipqtQW ...
(lots more files)
...sipqtQPen.o sipqtQt.o moc_qtcmodule.o -L/System/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.3/lib/python2.3/site-packages 
-L/Developer/qt/lib -lqassistantclient -lsip -lqt
/usr/bin/libtool: can't locate file for: -lsip
/usr/bin/libtool: file: -lsip is not an object file (not allowed in a library)
make[1]: *** [libqtcmodule.so] Error 1
make: *** [all] Error 2
-------------
and, though I can do some fiddling with make files, I sure
as heck have no idea what to do about this. I would really
appreciate advice on this one, because I'll never solve it
on my own.

Thanks,
Ken



From p_s_oberoi at hotmail.com  Tue Apr 27 23:18:23 2004
From: p_s_oberoi at hotmail.com (Paramjit Oberoi)
Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2004 22:18:23 -0500
Subject: Is Perl *that* good?
References: <c6ich0$c5mee$1@ID-205437.news.uni-berlin.de>
	<iL3jc.232$Yc.2330@news4.e.nsc.no>
	<108q51j4dscn7dc@corp.supernews.com>
	<knbjc.267$id.3998@news2.e.nsc.no>
	<pan.2004.04.26.20.50.19.843510@hotmail.com>
	<87fzaqmm8t.fsf@strauser.com>
	<38ec68a6.0404262308.50029919@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.49.1083084698.25742.python-list@python.org>
	<pan.2004.04.27.18.15.56.169064@hotmail.com>
	<Z_Bjc.1397$ZD3.139@fe1.columbus.rr.com>
Message-ID: <pan.2004.04.28.03.18.20.850410@hotmail.com>

>> If only compiled regular expression objects allowed easy access to the
>> last match object, python regxes would become significantly more
>> convenient.  For example, today you have to write:
> 
> Hmm.  The reason this hasn't been done is that it makes the match
> method non-reentrant.  For example, suppose you call some functions in
> between the matching and use of the matched object, like this:

I agree that that's a good reason...

So: to make regular expressions convenient, it should be possible to use
them without necessarily declaring a variable for the regular expression
object or the match objects.  The former is fairly easy; the latter is
not.

The match object needs to have local scope; but, a function cannot access
the caller's locals without mucking around with sys._getframe().  Is there
any other way of injecting objects into the caller's namespace?  Are there
any objects that exist per-frame that could be co-opted for this purpose?

I suppose a convenience module that uses sys._getframe() could be written,
but I don't think it would be suitable for the standard library.  Of
course, once we get decorators, it would be possible to munge functions to
make them more amenable to regexes... but then, we don't want such hackery
in the standard library either.

Question about decorators: are they only going to be for methods, or for
all functions?


From rich_NOSPAM_ at _NOSPAM_holmteam.net  Mon Apr 19 23:05:32 2004
From: rich_NOSPAM_ at _NOSPAM_holmteam.net (RichH)
Date: Mon, 19 Apr 2004 22:05:32 -0500
Subject: Threats to the: Daily Python URL!
References: <2ae25c6b.0404182250.4c5bc870@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.767.1082387435.20120.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <MPG.1aee4f691dd37f89989684@news.wowway.com>


You are doing an excellent job.  'Daily Python' is the first
thing I read each morning.

Please keep up the great work!

Cheers,
Rich



In article <mailman.767.1082387435.20120.python-list at python.org>, 
fredrik at pythonware.com says...
> Paddy McCarthy wrote:
> 
> > Please don't stop the excellent work that you do.
> > I don't know what threats and insults you suffered but I would like to
> > ensure you that I for one read the column and value it.
> 
> the daily URL won't go away.  we'll continue to provide fresh links to
> potentially interesting stuff for as long as we possibly can (if you want
> old links, use google or gigablast).
> 
> and in the future, we'll just redirect abusive posts to /dev/null (and it's
> up to us to decide what's abusive).  no need to upset our readers just
> because we got upset...
> 
> thanks /F
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 


From teiffel at attglobal.net  Wed Apr 28 14:37:42 2004
From: teiffel at attglobal.net (Marcello Pietrobon)
Date: Wed, 28 Apr 2004 14:37:42 -0400
Subject: uuid generator
Message-ID: <408FF9F6.8020501@attglobal.net>

Hello,
I need to read newly generated uuid from Python
but I am not sure if
http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Cookbook/Python/Recipe/163604

is the right code

Maybe there is already the library in Python 2.3

Maybe I can use the one generated with
uuidgen
under cygwin
but this would not be portable

In this last case I would like to know how can I capture the output of 
uuidgen
so I can use it in my script

Thank you if you know the answer !

Cheers,
Marcello





From roy at panix.com  Thu Apr  1 08:41:21 2004
From: roy at panix.com (Roy Smith)
Date: Thu, 01 Apr 2004 08:41:21 -0500
Subject: [OT] Top posting is a PITA
References: <569c605ld1cj8fc1emolk08ete0s1prls1@4ax.com>
	<v0r9c.38988$cx5.22021@fed1read04>
	<106di86neu1qh4d@news.supernews.com>
	<AHF9c.49048$cx5.33872@fed1read04> <c4akqh$gml$1@panix2.panix.com>
	<Sz8ac.68272$cx5.62681@fed1read04>
	<mailman.115.1080652873.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<4069a001$0$4237$afc38c87@news.easynet.co.uk>
	<4069e9d9$0$8915$636a15ce@news.free.fr>
	<406a98ee$0$290$edfadb0f@dread12.news.tele.dk>
	<c4e6jv$10te$1@biggoron.nerim.net>
	<106lh64rda8t9d4@news.supernews.com>
	<tyfn05w1358.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
Message-ID: <roy-E8B6F4.08412101042004@reader1.panix.com>

What makes you think people who top post don't also put a lot of effort 
into carefully organizing their replies and trimming the original post 
down to the most relevant points?

Jacek Generowicz <jacek.generowicz at cern.ch> wrote:
> top-posters tend to write codswallop more often that those who trim 
> and organize their replies carefully.
> 
> This is partly because the process of trimming the original post,
> forces you to identfy the relevant points being made


From deetsNOSPAM at web.de  Tue Apr 27 14:26:03 2004
From: deetsNOSPAM at web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2004 20:26:03 +0200
Subject: Intercepting method calls
References: <c6m0nv$3ie$1@info4.fnal.gov>
Message-ID: <c6m8eg$so$01$1@news.t-online.com>

Matt Leslie wrote:

> I took a look at the language reference and it is not immediately clear
> to me how or if I could do this in Python, perhaps I need to override
> the __call__ methods for all the instancemethods in the class? I'm not
> even sure how I could do this... Any help or suggestions appreciated.

A way to accomplish this is the usage of metaclasses. A metaclass gives you
a sort of callback that gets invoked with the classname, the base classes
and the class dictionary before the actual class object is created. Here
you then can creat wrappers around all callables that implement your
desired behaviour.


See this reciepe:

http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Cookbook/Python/Recipe/198078


-- 
Regards,

Diez B. Roggisch


From bignose-hates-spam at and-benfinney-does-too.id.au  Fri Apr  2 18:49:08 2004
From: bignose-hates-spam at and-benfinney-does-too.id.au (Ben Finney)
Date: 3 Apr 2004 09:39:08 +0950
Subject: Translate escaped characters in a string
References: <fef0a228.0404021557.57f86921@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <slrnc6s053.1lo.bignose-hates-spam@rose.localdomain.fake>

On 2 Apr 2004 15:57:59 -0800, - wrote:
> (\n is slash+n, and not LF)

No, "\n" is backslash + n.  Slash + n would be "/n".

> I would like to use \n and other supported escape sequences when I
> write the text to a file.

Once you know the proper name for the character you're talking about,
you can find modules like this one:

    <http://www.crazy-compilers.com/py-lib/shellwords.html>

which may be helpful.

-- 
 \                   "The best is the enemy of the good."  -- Voltaire |
  `\                                                                   |
_o__)                                                                  |
Ben Finney <http://bignose.squidly.org/>


From mwh at python.net  Wed Apr 28 07:24:49 2004
From: mwh at python.net (Michael Hudson)
Date: Wed, 28 Apr 2004 11:24:49 GMT
Subject: locale.CODESET / different in python shell and scripts
References: <pan.2004.04.26.23.23.56.718739@phreaker.net>
	<c6mfs1$99j$01$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <m3smeowdj2.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk>

"Martin v. L?wis" <martin at v.loewis.de> writes:

> Nuff Said wrote:
> > When I type the following code in the interactive python shell,
> > I get 'UTF-8'; but if I put the code into a Python script and
> > run the script - in the same terminal on my Linux box in which
> > I opened the python shell before -, I get 'ANSI_X3.4-1968'.
> > How does that come?
> 
> Because, for some reason, locale.setlocale() is called in your
> interactive startup, but not in the normal startup.
> 
> It is uncertain why this happens - setlocale is not normally
> called automatically; not even in interactive mode. Perhaps
> you have created your own startup file?

readline calls setlocale() iirc.

Cheers,
mwh

-- 
  Not only does the English Language borrow words from other
  languages, it sometimes chases them down dark alleys, hits
  them over the head, and goes through their pockets.   -- Eddy Peters


From dialton3#NOSPAM#.despammed at virgilio.it  Sat Apr  3 06:44:58 2004
From: dialton3#NOSPAM#.despammed at virgilio.it (Valentino Volonghi aka Dialtone)
Date: Sat, 03 Apr 2004 11:44:58 GMT
Subject: Parrot for Python
References: <930ba99a.0404030251.c2d2107@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <871xn5i8xn.fsf@vercingetorix.caesar.org>

sridharinfinity at yahoo.com (Sridhar R) writes:

> Why is Java so popular than Python.  Are the technologies for Java
> available for Python (no ... no jython)?  We can implement them in
> python if we want.  But the difference is speed.

There is no reason... Sun is behind java, who is behind Python?  Java
has a very little library advantage IMHO. Python is growing everyday,
as Tim Bray says in his blog here:
http://www.tbray.org/ongoing/When/200x/2003/05/08/FutureLanguage

-- 
Valentino Volonghi aka Dialtone
Linux User #310274, Gentoo Proud User
X Python Newsreader developer
http://sourceforge.net/projects/xpn/


From elainejackson7355 at home.com  Fri Apr  9 15:32:22 2004
From: elainejackson7355 at home.com (Elaine Jackson)
Date: Fri, 09 Apr 2004 19:32:22 GMT
Subject: Function args
References: <sdqdc.37060$zm5.15866@nntpserver.swip.net>
	<c55f5r$f2l$1@news-reader4.wanadoo.fr>
	<c55g8u$vvg$1@s1.read.news.oleane.net>
Message-ID: <aTCdc.57596$Pk3.1028@pd7tw1no>

I see from further on in the discussion that you've got the picture, so I'll
just add a couple of things that may be useful for you to know:

The keyword 'is' compares actual identity instead of just equality. (In other
words, 'a is b' returns the same value as 'id(a)==id(b)')
The function call 'globals()' returns a dictionary representing the current
global namespace.

"Jean-Michel Caricand" <jean-michel.caricand at laposte.net> wrote in message
news:c55g8u$vvg$1 at s1.read.news.oleane.net...
| Bonjour Michel et mer?i pour la r?ponse tr?s rapide. Je tiens ? pr?ciser que
| nous d?veloppons en interne
| en langage Perl. Ma question peut donc sembler b?te pour des programmeurs
| Python.
|
| Apr?s maintes recherches, je n'ai pas trouv? d'exemples me permettant de
| comprendre le m?canisme employ?
| par Python pour passer un simple nombre ? une fonction et le modifier
| r?ellement.
|
| Imaginons que je veuille ?crire une fonction qui permute deux variables,
| j'?cris :
|
| def permuter(a,b):
|   c = b
|   b = a
|   a = c
|
| Si tout est objet, donc pass? par r?f?rence a et b devraient ?tre r?ellement
| modifier ? Pourtant ce n'est pas le cas.
|
| Pourriez simplement me donner un exemple pour cette fonction. Encore mer?i
|
| "Michel Claveau/Hamster" <No.Spam.mc at No.Spam.mclaveau.No.Spam.com> a ?crit
| dans le message de news: c55f5r$f2l$1 at news-reader4.wanadoo.fr...
| > Bonjour !
| >
| > En Python, les variables sont des sortes de pointeurs sur des objets. Tout
| > passage de variable comme param?tres se fait forc?ment par r?f?rence (en
| > fait, on passe la r?f?rence ? l'objet).
| > De plus l'affectation d'une variable cr?e un autre objet, car la plupart
| des
| > objets ne sont pas modifiables.
| >
| > Seuls le sont les listes et les dictionnaires sont modifiables. Une cha?ne
| > de caract?res n'est pas modifiable non plus.
| >
| > Cependant, il existe des modules contenant d'autres types ayant des
| > comportement diff?rents. Il est ?galement possible de d?finir ses propres
| > classes, dont on (re)-d?finira le comportement.
| >
| >
| >
| > PS : il existe aussi un newsgroup   fr.comp.lang.python
| >
| >
| >
| > @-salutations
| > --
| > Michel Claveau
| > m?l : http://cerbermail.com/?6J1TthIa8B
| > site : http://mclaveau.com
| >
| >
|
|




From urnerk at qwest.net  Wed Apr 14 22:11:40 2004
From: urnerk at qwest.net (urnerk at qwest.net)
Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2004 22:11:40 -0400
Subject: List vs tuples
References: <c54cjb$5fs$1@planja.arnes.si> <107bf8q8fhsmg5e@news.supernews.com>
	<7in05lfpqt.fsf@enark.csis.hku.hk>
Message-ID: <hQofc.184$Lu2.74988@news.uswest.net>

<posted & mailed>

Isaac To wrote:

>>>>>> "John" == John Roth <newsgroups at jhrothjr.com> writes:
> 
>     John> It's a common question. A list is a data structure that is
>     John> intended to be used with homogenous members; that is, with
>     members John> of the same type.
> 
> I feel you argument very strange.  Even that it might be the original
> intention, I see nothing in the language that support your argument.
> 

In Python, lists don't care about members being homogenous.  There's a
less-used array type for that, in the standard library.  The principle
distinction between lists and tuples is indeed in the mutability
department.

As for emulating C structs, I liked the suggestion of using a class with
only data attributes.  That's a logical analogy, as in C++, it's the struct
that morphs into the basic class, with the addition of methods to data.

However, if you really want to used a low level C struct, there's actually a
struct in the standard library implemented using a C struct.  

Check out:

 >>> import struct
 >>> help(struct)

etc.

Kirby



From mark at prothon.org  Fri Apr 23 16:29:36 2004
From: mark at prothon.org (Mark Hahn)
Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2004 13:29:36 -0700
Subject: Why we will use obj$func() often
References: <d2Uhc.22272$dZ1.1600@fed1read04><84Uhc.22278$dZ1.5087@fed1read04><mailman.927.1082665370.20120.python-list@python.org><8AWhc.23114$dZ1.11070@fed1read04><40883BFE.B381518A@alcyone.com><27_hc.23801$dZ1.2716@fed1read04><40887145.789A2FE8@alcyone.com><7cki80hj976bia36lhf9er97v073o1pqvm@4ax.com><w8dic.28710$dZ1.11206@fed1read04>
	<mailman.976.1082747030.20120.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <Q0fic.29626$dZ1.29049@fed1read04>


"Fredrik Lundh" <fredrik at pythonware.com> wrote ...

> > (by the way, Python cannot do this)
>
> sure can, if you use mutable integers.

That's interesting.  I've never heard of them.  Can you show me a code
example?




From loic at fejoz.net  Tue Apr  6 09:05:51 2004
From: loic at fejoz.net (Yermat)
Date: Tue, 06 Apr 2004 15:05:51 +0200
Subject: design by contract versus doctest
In-Reply-To: <opr51awsr9yxrafp@nntphost.dur.ac.uk>
References: <407174ea$0$5066$4d4ebb8e@news.nl.uu.net>
	<T7Sdnf23r-IZGOzdRVn-sA@powergate.ca>
	<40718ddb$0$5071$4d4ebb8e@news.nl.uu.net>
	<IdadnapeW8YCCOzdRVn-jw@powergate.ca>
	<4071a6d4$0$5064$4d4ebb8e@news.nl.uu.net>
	<feKdnaUMq6w_MuzdRVn-jw@powergate.ca>
	<c4tkie$b19$2@arcturus.ciril.fr>
	<XbWdnWzpzoo5Fu_dRVn-ug@powergate.ca>
	<opr507ogk8yxrafp@nntphost.dur.ac.uk>
	<c4u5i7$j87$1@arcturus.ciril.fr>
	<opr51awsr9yxrafp@nntphost.dur.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <c4ua0c$io9$1@arcturus.ciril.fr>

Colin Blackburn wrote:
> On Tue, 06 Apr 2004 13:50:02 +0200, Yermat <loic at fejoz.net> wrote:
> 
> 
>> Hi,
>> Not really each time !
>> As it uses "assert", it is turn off by using -O option of python or 
>> by  removing the metaclass ! So it work exactly as DBC implemented in 
>> Eiffel.
> 
> 
> It doesn't work exactly as in Eiffel. In Eiffel it is *part* of the  
> language. Some aspects of DbC can be implemented in other languages but  
> not all (invariants for instance are not straightforward.)

It does work exactly the same in effect even if the syntax is not the 
same. But we're both right.

>> His author is Bertrand Meyer (with an 'e').
>> So please re-read it again !
> 
> 
> I am so sorry that I typed his name incorrectly. Please don't make me 
> read  all 1000 pages again!!

Sometime my fingers are typing without my head. That make things funny.  ;-)

> Colin
> -- 

-- 
Yermat



From loic at fejoz.net  Tue Apr  6 09:07:30 2004
From: loic at fejoz.net (Yermat)
Date: Tue, 06 Apr 2004 15:07:30 +0200
Subject: design by contract versus doctest
In-Reply-To: <opr51awsr9yxrafp@nntphost.dur.ac.uk>
References: <407174ea$0$5066$4d4ebb8e@news.nl.uu.net>
	<T7Sdnf23r-IZGOzdRVn-sA@powergate.ca>
	<40718ddb$0$5071$4d4ebb8e@news.nl.uu.net>
	<IdadnapeW8YCCOzdRVn-jw@powergate.ca>
	<4071a6d4$0$5064$4d4ebb8e@news.nl.uu.net>
	<feKdnaUMq6w_MuzdRVn-jw@powergate.ca>
	<c4tkie$b19$2@arcturus.ciril.fr>
	<XbWdnWzpzoo5Fu_dRVn-ug@powergate.ca>
	<opr507ogk8yxrafp@nntphost.dur.ac.uk>
	<c4u5i7$j87$1@arcturus.ciril.fr>
	<opr51awsr9yxrafp@nntphost.dur.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <c4ua3f$io9$2@arcturus.ciril.fr>

Colin Blackburn wrote:
> On Tue, 06 Apr 2004 13:50:02 +0200, Yermat <loic at fejoz.net> wrote:
> 
> 
>> Hi,
>> Not really each time !
>> As it uses "assert", it is turn off by using -O option of python or 
>> by  removing the metaclass ! So it work exactly as DBC implemented in 
>> Eiffel.
> 
> 
> It doesn't work exactly as in Eiffel. In Eiffel it is *part* of the  
> language. Some aspects of DbC can be implemented in other languages but  
> not all (invariants for instance are not straightforward.)
> 
>> His author is Bertrand Meyer (with an 'e').
>> So please re-read it again !
> 
> 
> I am so sorry that I typed his name incorrectly. Please don't make me 
> read  all 1000 pages again!!
> 
> Colin
> -- 

I forgot to say that the invariant can be checked each time a function 
is called or ended...

Yermat



From jdhunter at ace.bsd.uchicago.edu  Mon Apr 26 17:27:30 2004
From: jdhunter at ace.bsd.uchicago.edu (John Hunter)
Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2004 16:27:30 -0500
Subject: Is there a Python library that packs binary data into one file?
In-Reply-To: <85b54e91.0404261301.69d5c1e9@posting.google.com>
	(jacobsmail@postmark.net's
	message of "26 Apr 2004 14:01:33 -0700")
References: <85b54e91.0404261301.69d5c1e9@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <m2k7028m65.fsf@mother.paradise.lost>

>>>>> "Jacob" == Jacob H <jacobsmail at postmark.net> writes:

    Jacob> Hello all, Today I began writing a utility script that
    Jacob> takes given binary files and puts them all into one
    Jacob> datafile. My idea is to be able to access any binary data I
    Jacob> want by indexing the datafile, e.g.  wanted_image_data =
    Jacob> datafileobj[IMAGE_DATA]. The purpose is to hide external
    Jacob> image files from the user in a simple game I'm writing.

    Jacob> Though I have a good idea of how to implement this, before
    Jacob> I begin I am curious to know if some Python master out
    Jacob> there has already come out with a library that does the
    Jacob> same. Anyone? :) --

How about putting it into a tar file?  There are many archive file
formats (ISO9960, tar, zip).  You could just reuse one of these and an
existing python interface to them, compressing and encrypting as
necessary if you need extra obscurity.

JDH




From arcane at deepfort.com  Thu Apr 22 07:39:16 2004
From: arcane at deepfort.com (Arcane)
Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2004 12:39:16 +0100
Subject: python web programming / CMS
In-Reply-To: <EOOhc.82192$A9.5538906@phobos.telenet-ops.be>
References: <EOOhc.82192$A9.5538906@phobos.telenet-ops.be>
Message-ID: <4087AEE4.2090703@deepfort.com>

news.telenet.be wrote:

>Hi,
>
>i'm looking at python to do programming for the new intranet
>here at the company. I'm looking at plone/zope also.
>Before, I've used jsp for webprogramming but i'm considering
>python for this.
>One thing that isn't clear to me is if it's possible to include python
>code in a html page like you would do with jsp and then have zope
>"translate" that to html. With jsp, one could use an apache/tomcat
>combo to accomplish this.
>If one can't include python in html, is Zope the only alternative and
>how does code look like then?
>
>Thanks
>
>
>  
>
There are various ways to implement a "PSP (Python Server Pages)"-type 
setup.

I don't know how well regarded it is amongst other python users - in 
fact, I'd be interested to know, but I use the
very lightweight Spyce : http://spyce.sourceforge.net.

I use Spyce-flavoured apache, in combination with python cgi stuff to 
great effect on our intranet.

Hope this helps.







From daniel.dittmar at sap.com  Tue Apr  6 11:00:04 2004
From: daniel.dittmar at sap.com (Daniel Dittmar)
Date: Tue, 6 Apr 2004 17:00:04 +0200
Subject: design by contract versus doctest
References: <407174ea$0$5066$4d4ebb8e@news.nl.uu.net>
	<T7Sdnf23r-IZGOzdRVn-sA@powergate.ca>
	<40718ddb$0$5071$4d4ebb8e@news.nl.uu.net>
	<IdadnapeW8YCCOzdRVn-jw@powergate.ca>
	<4071a6d4$0$5064$4d4ebb8e@news.nl.uu.net>
	<feKdnaUMq6w_MuzdRVn-jw@powergate.ca>
	<c4tkie$b19$2@arcturus.ciril.fr>
	<XbWdnWzpzoo5Fu_dRVn-ug@powergate.ca>
	<opr507ogk8yxrafp@nntphost.dur.ac.uk>
	<c4u5i7$j87$1@arcturus.ciril.fr>
	<opr51awsr9yxrafp@nntphost.dur.ac.uk>
	<c4ua0c$io9$1@arcturus.ciril.fr>
Message-ID: <c4ugll$2cl$1@news1.wdf.sap-ag.de>

Yermat wrote:
> Colin Blackburn wrote:
>> It doesn't work exactly as in Eiffel. In Eiffel it is *part* of the
>> language. Some aspects of DbC can be implemented in other languages
>> but not all (invariants for instance are not straightforward.)
>
> It does work exactly the same in effect even if the syntax is not the
> same. But we're both right.

- in Eiffel, postconditions of methods are inherited (because subclasses
must guarantee at least as much). This is difficult to implement with a
simple assert statement.

- postconditions have access to the values parameters and instance variables
had upon entry to the method. This is difficult to support even in a
compiler that knows about these things, at least for mutable objects.

Daniel




From junkmail at solumslekt.org  Fri Apr 16 05:23:23 2004
From: junkmail at solumslekt.org (Leif B. Kristensen)
Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2004 11:23:23 +0200
Subject: CamelCase versus wide_names (Prothon)
References: <UHxfc.9323$dZ1.3740@fed1read04> <87hdvl2dny.fsf@blakie.riol>
	<c5mr6h$jkn$1@atlantis.news.tpi.pl> <87d6692ar8.fsf@blakie.riol>
	<mailman.674.1082103786.20120.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <_CNfc.25593$zf6.94026@news4.e.nsc.no>

Hugh Macdonald rose and spake:

> On a qwerty keyboard, _ is SHIFT+- (to the right of 0)
 
In my part of the world, _ is also Shift+-, but it's to the right of
the . (period). In OO programming in general that's a bit awkward as I
frequently type a dot where I want an underscore and vice versa. This
is an error that often can be very hard to spot. So, this may be an
argument for camelCasing, - which I actually haven't used much since my
TurboPascal days.

regards,
-- 
Leif Biberg Kristensen
http://solumslekt.org/
Validare necesse est


From sholden at holdenweb.com  Wed Apr 28 14:52:34 2004
From: sholden at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Wed, 28 Apr 2004 14:52:34 -0400
Subject: MySQL Connectivity
In-Reply-To: <mailman.89.1083173215.25742.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.89.1083173215.25742.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <f2Tjc.3551$f_5.1798@lakeread01>

Gaz Oakley wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> I've looked through the mailing list archives trying to find the best ways
> of connecting to a MySQL database using Python. From what I've seen, people
> seem to be using http://sourceforge.net/projects/mysql-python/. First of
> all, is this the recommended method of connectivity? (I'm assuming it is).
> 
> If it is, I've experienced a problem here. I'd ideally like to have Python
> 2.3 installed with MySQLdb. Following the instructions on
> http://sourceforge.net/forum/forum.php?thread_id=948054&forum_id=70461 I
> tried to build an RPM that would work with Python 2.3. It appears to be
> using rpm -ba to build. I can fix that, but it would indicate that the build
> script is somewhat out of date (rpmbuild has been around for a long time
> now). Are there any newer RPM's for this anywhere or any newer build
> scripts? Is the testing version relatively stable? (although I havent
> checked this is fixing the build problem yet)
> 
If all you want is to *install* the software, why not just run "python 
setup.py install" instead of trying to create an RPM then install that?

regards
  Steve


From faassen at infrae.com  Tue Apr 13 07:29:25 2004
From: faassen at infrae.com (Martijn Faassen)
Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2004 13:29:25 +0200
Subject: EuroPython: Python Frameworks Track submission deadline approaching
Message-ID: <407bcd47$0$570$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>

Hi there,

The deadline for a talk submission for EuroPython is approaching fast 
(april 15). I'm the track chair for the Python frameworks track, and 
could use some more talk submissions!

Please see this overview for the place where you can submit talks:

http://www.europython.org/conferences/epc2004/info/

Do you have an interesting Python based framework or library you'd like 
others to know about? Please submit a talk proposal on the frameworks track!

Regards,

Martijn


From pclinch at internet-glue.co.uk  Sun Apr 18 10:49:41 2004
From: pclinch at internet-glue.co.uk (Paul Clinch)
Date: 18 Apr 2004 07:49:41 -0700
Subject: Cannot import cgi.py -- scripts broken
References: <rBUfc.32639$aD.32463@edtnps89>
Message-ID: <8cf2994e.0404180649.5b0eb071@posting.google.com>

yazzoo <yazzoo at null.net> wrote in message news:<rBUfc.32639$aD.32463 at edtnps89>...
> I've been banging my head over a long running script that has suddenly 
> stopped working when my ISP upgraded Apache and Suexec.  They didn't 
> specify what they did, but I presume it was the latest updates.
> 
> My problem is that any script that tries to import cgi.py breaks.
> 
> For example, the following script:
> 
> 	#!/usr/bin/python
> 	print """Content-type: text/html\n\n"""
> 	import cgi, sys, string, os
> 	print """<html>hi</html>"""
> 
> fails with the following message in apache's error log.
> 
> Traceback (innermost last):
>    File "hello.py.cgi", line 3, in ?
>      import cgi, sys, string, os
>    File "/usr/lib/python1.5/cgi.py", line 422, in ?
>      import urllib
>    File "/usr/lib/python1.5/urllib.py", line 25, in ?
>      import socket
> ImportError: libssl.so.2: cannot open shared object file: No such file 
> or directory
> 

looking for libssl.so.2,

> 
> My ISP's tech support confirms that the file is still available on the 
> server in the directory /usr/local/ssl/lib/libssl.so
> 

libssl.so not the same as libssl.so.2

> any clue's?
> 
> Thanks in advance,
> Lester

though functionaly they may be.

Regards, Paul Clinch


From jwsacksteder at ramprecision.com  Tue Apr 27 16:49:27 2004
From: jwsacksteder at ramprecision.com (jwsacksteder at ramprecision.com)
Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2004 16:49:27 -0400
Subject: Passing through keywork arguments
Message-ID: <71650A6F73F1D411BE8000805F65E3CB3B3A8E@SRV-03>

If I have a class method that accepts keywork arguments, how may I pass
those arguments into a method call of some other class? This is some
namespace thing I'm not understanding and I can't seem to find any examples.




From jdhunter at ace.bsd.uchicago.edu  Fri Apr 16 15:40:02 2004
From: jdhunter at ace.bsd.uchicago.edu (John Hunter)
Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2004 14:40:02 -0500
Subject: datetimes, tzinfo and gmtime epoch
In-Reply-To: <DE1CF2B4FEC4A342BF62B6B2B334601E562005@opus.amorhq.net> ("Robert
	Brewer"'s message of "Fri, 16 Apr 2004 10:42:12 -0700")
References: <DE1CF2B4FEC4A342BF62B6B2B334601E562005@opus.amorhq.net>
Message-ID: <m2d6677lv1.fsf@mother.paradise.lost>

>>>>> "Robert" == Robert Brewer <fumanchu at amor.org> writes:

    Robert> John Hunter wrote:
    >> I have a python2.3 datetime instance and a tzinfo instance (eg
    >> Eastern from the python library reference).
    >> 
    >> What is the best way to convert that datetime instance to
    >> seconds since the epoch, gmtime?

    Robert> You might try time.mktime(t), where t is a 9-tuple as
    Robert> desribed at:


Yes, but you still have to account for the offset to gmtime, which is
dependent on daylight savings time.

I *think* this is correct, where x is a datetime instance and tz is a
tzinfo instance.

 offset = self.tz.utcoffset(x).days*SEC_PER_DAY + self.tz.utcoffset(x).seconds
 gmepoch = time.mktime(x.timetuple())+offset

JDH



From kfast at poczta.onet.pl  Tue Apr 13 13:12:12 2004
From: kfast at poczta.onet.pl (Jakub Fast)
Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2004 19:12:12 +0200
Subject: Does Python compete with Java?
In-Reply-To: <e838aa6e.0404130748.1d8e1ddf@posting.google.com>
References: <8b336527.0404051337.51bb4a1b@posting.google.com>	<c4taac$2lg0bc$1@ID-169208.news.uni-berlin.de>	<e838aa6e.0404071426.7192e8e4@posting.google.com>	<slrnc79idf.hij.ramen@lackingtalent.com>
	<e838aa6e.0404130748.1d8e1ddf@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <407C1F6C.3010203@poczta.onet.pl>

>>Over the long term, I think Python's biggest key to success will be that we
>>will still be able to read the programs that we are writing now.
> 
> 
> No argument here :)

Hi,

I'm totally fresh to python, and i'm enjoying the language, and the 
readability a lot, but i just bumped into something that -- from my 
purely subjective perspective -- surprised me with pretty awful, 
not-very-readable syntax: operator overloads and static methods. is this 
an issue that is argued over? i just find these particular bits to be 
10x more intuitive the way they are implemented in c++...

would having the possibility of using

def static mymethod():

instead of the standard = staticmethod(...) do anything bad to python as 
it is? Same question goes for something along the lines  of 
__operator__['='] (self, etc).

On quite another note, is it possible to define your own operators in 
python? you could argue that this might actually make the code _less_ 
transparent, but then, at least for some cases, my experience shows that 
a few cleverly defined operators work magic in terms of bumping up the 
ease-of-use of a library. what i'm thiniking about, exactly, are the 
"--->"'s, "==>"'s, or "~~>"'s you'll see people using in prolog for 
instance. Also, can "and", "or", "not" etc. be overloaded?

I've been pondering using python+NLTK to teach a computational semantics 
class this summer (precisely because i think the basics of python would 
be easy for the students to learn quickly, and, class aside, that 
learning them actually might turn out useful for whatever they want to 
do in the future -- more useful than, say, prolog) and nothing can beat 
the intuitive appeal of

S ==> (NP and VP) or VP

over CFGProduction(S, NP, VP), CFGProduction(S, VP) for specifying your 
simple cfg, dcg or ebnf rules if you're completely new to programming 
and have just been given a programming assignment :)


Any comments, any answers?

Thanks in advance.

Kuba Fast





From daniel.dittmar at sap.com  Thu Apr 29 11:41:37 2004
From: daniel.dittmar at sap.com (Daniel Dittmar)
Date: Thu, 29 Apr 2004 17:41:37 +0200
Subject: static keyword
References: <f8097096.0404290607.78aa9ce3@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <c6r7ni$6r$1@news1.wdf.sap-ag.de>

Nick Jacobson wrote:
> I believe the following "static" command would be useful in Python.
[...]
> Just like in C, the variables i and firstcall are only assigned the
> first time foo() is called.  To get this effect currently, one could
> use default arguments or wrapping the whole thing in a class.  Both of
> these solutions seem like hacks, the above method IMO is more
> Pythonic. :)

You could also use funtion properties
>>> def statictest ():
...     statictest.counter += 1
...     print statictest.counter
...
>>> statictest.counter = 0
>>> statictest ()
1
>>> statictest ()
2

But this uses two lookups: one for the function in module scope and one for
the property. Three if you want to do this in a method
(class.method.property).

Just to describe all the possibilities, I probably wouldn't use this myself.

Daniel





From peter at engcorp.com  Fri Apr  2 07:59:17 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Fri, 02 Apr 2004 07:59:17 -0500
Subject: Python conference slogan
In-Reply-To: <406D57FF.4040601@mplusr.de>
References: <mailman.189.1080759511.20120.python-list@python.org>	<kmjsj1-89u.ln1@snout.lairds.org>	<c4glmq$j1i$1@swifty.westend.com>	<30260531.0404010833.1b834032@posting.google.com>	<406C4DDF.5000907@zope.com>
	<mailman.259.1080890435.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<c4jj1i$f6g$1@swifty.westend.com> <406D57FF.4040601@mplusr.de>
Message-ID: <Sb-dnduaVpc4_vDdRVn-hw@powergate.ca>

Peter Maas wrote:
[slogans]

- Wrap Python around your problem and crush it.


From rnichol_rrc at yahoo.com  Sun Apr 18 14:26:18 2004
From: rnichol_rrc at yahoo.com (Reid Nichol)
Date: Sun, 18 Apr 2004 13:26:18 -0500
Subject: os.system help
In-Reply-To: <pan.2004.04.18.12.39.41.82175@jeremysanders.net>
References: <78lgc.3445$AL1.7744@news1.mts.net>
	<Pine.LNX.4.44.0404172009580.3096-100000@e5-05.ee.ualberta.ca>
	<Ywngc.3629$AL1.8293@news1.mts.net>
	<pan.2004.04.18.12.39.41.82175@jeremysanders.net>
Message-ID: <5Lzgc.4355$AL1.9508@news1.mts.net>

The registry contains certain data but not *exactly* the data I need.  I 
could construct from that but according to the docs it's quite new so 
I'd rather not use it.

I know there has to be a way to tell if I'm on a certain platorm. 
Something like:
if __win32__:
	print 'on windows'

But, I can't find any docs on that.  I'm probably looking in the wrong 
place, so, could someone point me in the right direction or just give me 
that if statment.

Thanks


Jeremy Sanders wrote:
> On Sat, 17 Apr 2004 23:32:01 -0500, Reid Nichol wrote:
> 
> 
>>Unfortunately PIL only writes .eps files.  I was going to get the users 
>>to install gs but of course it's install directory is variable.  I've 
>>tried using shortcuts but that didn't work.
>>
>>Since most of my intended users use windows only...
> 
> 
> I'm not familiar with GS on Windows, but it may be worth searching the
> registry to see whether the install path is written there.
> 
> Jeremy
>  



From theller at python.net  Wed Apr 14 08:46:56 2004
From: theller at python.net (Thomas Heller)
Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2004 14:46:56 +0200
Subject: Unable to create com object - need help
References: <2D89F6C4A80FA547BF5D5B8FDDD04523060C62@exchange.adrembi.com>
Message-ID: <oepuu3pb.fsf@python.net>

"Roman Yakovenko" <roman.yakovenko at actimize.com> writes:

> Thank you very much. I definitly will try your module.
> Also I still have to questions:
> 1. How does VB success to work with this dll?
> 2. Why after using makepy utility I don't get interface registered in DiaSource class
>
> I understand that the first question is generic one, and has nothing
> to do with python.  But any reference to this specifiec topic will be
> appreciated. Also I'd like to know the answer to the second
> question. It will help me a lot in my future work
>

I'm afraid I'm not qualified to answer any of these questions.  You
might be able to gain further insights to the answer for the second by
examining the makepy sources.

Thomas




From user_77 at hotmail.com  Wed Apr 14 10:43:25 2004
From: user_77 at hotmail.com (Nobody)
Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2004 14:43:25 GMT
Subject: [wxPython] MVC example?
Message-ID: <h6cfc.29378$I83.535807@twister.tampabay.rr.com>

I'm trying to wrap my mind around MVC.  Does anyone have a _simple_ example
of using the MVC pattern with wxPython?  Maybe just a simple window with a
dialog box that allows one to update some data.

Please.


Thanks,
Wr





From junkmail at solumslekt.org  Wed Apr 28 03:00:19 2004
From: junkmail at solumslekt.org (Leif B. Kristensen)
Date: Wed, 28 Apr 2004 09:00:19 +0200
Subject: Is Perl *that* good?
References: <c6ich0$c5mee$1@ID-205437.news.uni-berlin.de>
	<iL3jc.232$Yc.2330@news4.e.nsc.no>
	<108q51j4dscn7dc@corp.supernews.com>
	<knbjc.267$id.3998@news2.e.nsc.no>
	<TAHjc.34088$cF6.1592539@attbi_s04>
Message-ID: <lEIjc.571$id.8865@news2.e.nsc.no>

S Koppelman wrote:

[Leif B. Kristensen]
>> In theory, the web routine for phonetic searches might have been
>> implemented in PHP. The trouble with that is that I would have to
>> maintain both a PHP and a Perl version of the same routine. I find it
>> much easier to just copy and paste the whole mess (at present about
>> 120 lines) between the encoding and the decoding routines in Perl,
>> and run an exec("perl norphon.pl $name") from PHP.
> 
> Well, that's not PHP's fault, especially with such straightforward
> regexps. The only reason to user perl over PHP in that case is the
> valid one you cite: you already wrote the damned code in perl. ;)
 
I actually did rewrite the routine once in PHP, but I usually find
regexps in any other language than Perl a PITA.

> Meanwhile, wouldn't it run more efficiently if you hosted your perl
> functions under mod_perl or some other persistent harness like a SOAP
> or XML-RPC daemon and had the PHP call accross to that? 

I don't run my own Web server, so I have limited opportunities for
configuration. Exec() seems to be the only viable alternative for now.

> Execing out  
> and having perl launch, compile and run your script each time is a
> waste of resources, not to mention needlessly slow. You might not
> notice it if you're the only person using it, but if there's a sudden
> uptick in traffic to your site from fellow Scandinavian diaspora
> genaologists, you will.

I had expected some penalty for running a Perl routine from PHP, but in
practice, the process is blazingly fast. You may verify this for
yourself if you visit http://solumslekt.org/slekta/innhold.php and
enter some common Norwegian name like "Berte" in the "Fornavn" (given)
field, and "Olsdatter" in the "Etternavn" (surname, or more likely a
patronym) field. The page is generated and served in a fraction of a
second, as you can see in the blue box at the bottom.

I wonder if Apache is smart enough to keep the compiled Perl code cached
in memory, even if mod_perl is not loaded?

regards,
-- 
Leif Biberg Kristensen
http://solumslekt.org/
Validare necesse est


From mikalzetTogli at interfree.it  Tue Apr  6 05:12:53 2004
From: mikalzetTogli at interfree.it (TaeKyon)
Date: Tue, 06 Apr 2004 09:12:53 GMT
Subject: Compact Python library for math statistics
References: <E1B9LoV-0005OQ-00@fatlady.ukr.net>
	<mailman.267.1080904644.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<c3835e5f.0404051841.2812a40d@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <pan.2004.04.06.09.12.52.450296@interfree.it>

Il Mon, 05 Apr 2004 19:41:52 -0700, Chris Fonnesbeck ha scritto:

>> > I'm looking for a Python library for math statistics. This must be a cl
>> ear set of general statistics functions like 'average', 'variance', 'cova
>> riance' etc.

You can also use R from within python; take a look at:

http://www.omegahat.org/RSPython/

--  
Michele Alzetta


From eldiener at earthlink.net  Sun Apr  4 08:40:20 2004
From: eldiener at earthlink.net (Edward Diener)
Date: Sun, 04 Apr 2004 12:40:20 GMT
Subject: Difference between default arguments and keyword arguments
Message-ID: <UmTbc.9904$NL4.4809@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net>

In the tutorial on functions there are sections on default arguments and
keyword arguments, yet I don't see the syntactic difference between them.
For default arguments the tutorial shows:

def ask_ok(prompt, retries=4, complaint='Yes or no, please!'):

while for keyword arguments the tutorial shows:

def parrot(voltage, state='a stiff', action='voom', type='Norwegian Blue'):

The syntax 'keyword = value' is used for both as far as I can see. How does
one distinguish between them or are they both part of the same combined
concept, which is: if one calls the function with less than the required
number of arguments but does specify keyword values, those values are used,
else the defaults are supplied. Or is there really a syntactic difference
between default arguments and keyword arguments which I have missed above ?




From loic at yermat.net1.nerim.net  Tue Apr 13 15:01:24 2004
From: loic at yermat.net1.nerim.net (Yermat)
Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2004 21:01:24 +0200
Subject: A new OS
In-Reply-To: <107k441hitt2ld9@corp.supernews.com>
References: <107k441hitt2ld9@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <c5hdbu$1ohs$1@biggoron.nerim.net>

A Evans a ?crit :
> Hello Everyone I am working towards starting a project developing a new
> Operating System using the Python language (or a derivative thereof). As
> recommended on this forum I am asking if people are interested in something
> like this and ask who would be willing to support a project this large.
> 
> Any and all ideas are welcome this message is just to see what kind of
> support this project would recieve
> 
> Cheers
> 
> Andrew
> 
> 

Taking a look at the Isaac Project may give you some hints...
http://www.isaacos.com/

It's based on an object-oriented and dynanism language named lisaac 
(even inheritage is dynamic).

-- 
Yermat



From faizan at jaredweb.com  Tue Apr 20 20:28:40 2004
From: faizan at jaredweb.com (Fazer)
Date: 20 Apr 2004 17:28:40 -0700
Subject: Opening MS Word files via Python
Message-ID: <7b454334.0404201628.371b9e8@posting.google.com>

Here comes another small question from me :-)

I am curious as to how I should approach this issue.  I would just
want to parse simple text and maybe perhaps tables in the future. 
Would I have to save the word file and open it in a text editor?  That
would kind of....suck...  Has anyone else tackled this issue?

Thanks,


From stewart at midtoad.homelinux.org  Sat Apr  3 11:09:21 2004
From: stewart at midtoad.homelinux.org (Stewart Midwinter)
Date: Sat, 03 Apr 2004 16:09:21 GMT
Subject: rlght click menu missing in most Tk apps
References: <mailman.208.1080789089.20120.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <pan.2004.04.03.16.09.20.669115@midtoad.homelinux.org>

On Wed, 31 Mar 2004 22:09:57 -0500, eltronic wrote:

> here is some code to add right click context menus.
> in the few apps I've edited sofar, it just works, once
> you run rCbinder with the root of the gui or bind B3
> all present and future widgets will have right click.

how about a little example app showing how it is used?

thanks
S



From sridharinfinity at yahoo.com  Mon Apr 12 06:01:05 2004
From: sridharinfinity at yahoo.com (Sridhar R)
Date: 12 Apr 2004 03:01:05 -0700
Subject: Documentation tool for python source code
Message-ID: <930ba99a.0404120201.65203953@posting.google.com>

Hi,

I am just wondering why epydoc isn't mentioned (or atleast in main
page) in the docsig section of www.python.org.

Or what python source code documentation system is prefered.  I feel I
should decide on this before starting my project, as I should be
formatting the docstrings acc. to the doc system.

Happydoc seems to generate `not-so-good` looking HTML documentation,
as epydoc does.

Any thoughts?


From nuffsaid at phreaker.net  Fri Apr 30 12:16:13 2004
From: nuffsaid at phreaker.net (Nuff Said)
Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2004 18:16:13 +0200
Subject: locale.CODESET / different in python shell and scripts
References: <pan.2004.04.26.23.23.56.718739@phreaker.net>
	<c6mfs1$99j$01$1@news.t-online.com>
	<pan.2004.04.28.22.37.39.159529@phreaker.net>
	<4091621F.5060307@v.loewis.de>
	<pan.2004.04.29.21.44.21.815390@phreaker.net>
	<4091BA4A.4000608@v.loewis.de>
	<pan.2004.04.30.09.56.18.389441@phreaker.net>
Message-ID: <pan.2004.04.30.16.16.12.956384@phreaker.net>

On Fri, 30 Apr 2004 11:56:19 +0200, Nuff Said wrote:
> But *I do use* the line 
> 
>   # -*- coding: UTF-8 -*- 
> 
> from your PEP (directly after the shebang-line; s. the full source
> code in my earlier posting). I thought, that allows me to write u"?"
> (which - as described above - works in one of my two Pythons).  

Follow up to myself:

Arrgh!!! Think I got it now. Your PEP 263: 'Source Code Encodings' was
incorporated into Python 2.3 (i.e. my self-compiled Python) but not
into Python 2.2 (Fedora's Python).

Thanks for your help!



From irmen at -nospam-remove-this-xs4all.nl  Thu Apr 15 17:13:38 2004
From: irmen at -nospam-remove-this-xs4all.nl (Irmen de Jong)
Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2004 23:13:38 +0200
Subject: Socket error: 10053 software caused connection abort
In-Reply-To: <c5mmqf$6mg$1@newshispeed.ch>
References: <c5kc37$kco$1@newshispeed.ch>
	<407eda4e$0$576$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>
	<c5mmqf$6mg$1@newshispeed.ch>
Message-ID: <407efb02$0$563$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>

Jean-Pierre Bergamin wrote:
> But how can I know the amout of data I will receive? There's no way to do
> that, since it's totally random how large the sent data will be.

Ah! You have to adapt your program. The usual pattern here is to encode
the length of the data that will be sent, send that size first (in a
fixed amount of bytes for instance) and after that, send the data.
The receiving side first grabs the encoded integer from the socket,
and then starts to recv() the given amount of bytes.

You can use the struct module to encode the length of the data stream
in a fixed amount of bytes (say, 4).
Send those 4 bytes first.
Then send your message.
The recipient first reads exactly 4 bytes, uses the struct module to
decode that back into an integer, then reads the specified length.

If you only use the socket connection for a single request/response,
you can also shutdown() the socket after sending is complete. The
recv() will notice this.

HTH,
--Irmen de Jong.

PS:
I once developed a low level socket protocol, that is used by Pyro.
It essentially does the same as described above (but more complex).
But since I now have Pyro, I usually don't have to think and bother
about the low level stuff anymore ;-)


From fumanchu at amor.org  Thu Apr 29 11:52:47 2004
From: fumanchu at amor.org (Robert Brewer)
Date: Thu, 29 Apr 2004 08:52:47 -0700
Subject: static keyword
Message-ID: <DE1CF2B4FEC4A342BF62B6B2B334601E56207C@opus.amorhq.net>

Nick Jacobson wrote:
> I believe the following "static" command would be useful in Python.
> 
> def foo():
>     static i = [10, 11]
>     static firstcall = True
>     if firstcall:
>         print "First pass"
>         firstcall = False
>     i[0] += 1
>     print i[0]
> foo()
> foo()
> 
> 
> This would output:
> 
> First pass
> 11
> 12

Bah. All these old fogies with their default arg hacks, when Nick
*clearly* wants a generator:

>>> def foo():
... 	i = 10
... 	print "First pass"
... 	while True:
... 		i += 1
... 		yield i
... 		
>>> g = foo()
>>> g.next()
First pass
11
>>> g.next()
12


Robert Brewer
MIS
Amor Ministries
fumanchu at amor.org



From arifi at turk.net  Sun Apr 11 02:33:25 2004
From: arifi at turk.net (Arifi Koseoglu)
Date: 10 Apr 2004 23:33:25 -0700
Subject: Newbie Q: Extra spaces after conversion from utf-8 to utf-16-le ?
Message-ID: <915dc3ae.0404102233.4248dc9a@posting.google.com>

Hello everyone.

I am an absolute Newbie who has done a good amount of googling with
the keywords utf-8, utf-16, python, convert and has reasoned that the
following code could be used to convert a utf-8 text file to a
utf-16-le (I believe this is what Windows uses for Unicode):

s1 = open("utf8_file_generated_with_perl.txt", "r").read()
s2 = unicode(s1, "utf-8")
s3 = s2.encode("utf-16-le")
open ("new_file_supposedly_in_utf16le", "w").write(s3)

Well, this code kind of works (meaning I do not get any errors), but
the produced file contains an extra space after every character (l i k
e  t h i s) and Windows believes this is an ANSI (i.e. non-unicode
file). Clearly, what I think is working is actually not.

What do I need to do?

Many thanks in advance,
-arifi


From deetsNOSPAM at web.de  Wed Apr 28 12:29:00 2004
From: deetsNOSPAM at web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Wed, 28 Apr 2004 18:29:00 +0200
Subject: PyChecker does STATIC analysis?
References: <3064b51d.0404280728.5fb7539e@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <c6olur$v13$00$1@news.t-online.com>

beliavsky at aol.com wrote:
> before finding the out-of-bounds error. I have seen PyChecker
> described as a "static analysis" tool, and it does find some problems
> that such a tool ought to. But it seems that for the simple program I
> have shown, it basically runs the program, and I could just run the
> Python program to find the same errors. An aspect of Python
> programming that sometimes frustrates me is that a program will run,
> perhaps for a few minutes, before stopping because of a misspelled
> variable or an out-of-bounds variable. It seems that currently,
> PyChecker will not solve this problem. I wish there were a tool that
> did (and would be willing to pay for it).
> 
> The Lahey/Fujitsu Fortran 95 compiler is able to catch the
> out-of-bounds error at COMPILE time for an analogous Fortran program.

while there might be not-so-obvious cases that can be found using static
analysis, the halting problem also applies here: There is no such thing as
a automated analysis that finds out if your prgram is going to die or not.

So automatically running a program as part of the analysis is as valid as
any other technique - as long as there are no permantent sideeffects (you
don't want your partitioning code accidentially ruin your hd while
developing...)

Given the fact that nobody prevents you from doing this:

>>> xrange = lambda x: [1,2,3,4,5]
>>> x = range(3)
>>> print x[3]
4

you can fool a static analysis, I wont blame Pychecker too much.


-- 
Regards,

Diez B. Roggisch


From claird at lairds.com  Sat Apr 24 18:41:23 2004
From: claird at lairds.com (Cameron Laird)
Date: Sat, 24 Apr 2004 22:41:23 -0000
Subject: A python telnet entry level question
References: <mailman.893.1082600095.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<c685ob$da5$1@scotsman.ed.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <108lr8jmr2u1202@corp.supernews.com>

In article <c685ob$da5$1 at scotsman.ed.ac.uk>,
Eddie Corns <eddie at holyrood.ed.ac.uk> wrote:
			.
			.
			.
>You are maybe being too specific in what you match for.  At least one of my
>machines prompts:
>
>  Pasword for <username>:
>
>rather than just "Password: ".  I tend to match things like
>
>"ogin"  (in case of Login vs login)
>"assword" (will this get filtered out by censoring s/w?)
>
>Eddie

This sort of tolerance can lead to its own problems (though
I entirely agree you're right to recommend it).  Some logins
are so sensitive to timing (in essence) that matching
"assword" rather than "assword:" results in the telnetd 
ignoring the first character or two of response.

So what to do?  At this level, there is *no* good answer.
The most enlightened thought is simply to recognize that
telnet forces one into a cascade of heuristic hacks.
-- 

Cameron Laird <claird at phaseit.net>
Business:  http://www.Phaseit.net


From phil at riverbankcomputing.co.uk  Mon Apr 19 14:14:55 2004
From: phil at riverbankcomputing.co.uk (Phil Thompson)
Date: Mon, 19 Apr 2004 19:14:55 +0100
Subject: using QFtp class in PyQT
In-Reply-To: <2aa196bb.0404190559.3c41485d@posting.google.com>
References: <2aa196bb.0404190559.3c41485d@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <200404191914.55928.phil@riverbankcomputing.co.uk>

On Monday 19 April 2004 2:59 pm, Kim wrote:
> Hi everybody,
> I tried to write simple FTP program using PyQt version 3.11. The
> document say that QFtp has been implemented, but i keep getting error
> message from my simple program :
>
> My Program:
>
> from qt import *
> from qtnetwork import *
>
> def gotSignalStart(*arg):
>     print "start ",arg
>
> def gotSignalState(*arg):
>     print "state ",arg
>
> def gotListInfo(*arg):
>     print "List info ",arg
>
> def doFTP():
>     fh = QFtp()
>     QObject.connect(fh,SIGNAL("start()"),gotSignalStart);
>     QObject.connect(fh,SIGNAL("stateChanged()"),gotSignalState);
>     QObject.connect(fh,SIGNAL("listInfo()"),gotListInfo);
>     fh.connectToHost("ftp.trolltech.com")
>     fh.login()
>     print fh.state()
>     if fh.state() != QFtp.Unconnected : fh.close()
>
> doFTP();
>
> Error messages:
>
> QObject::connect: No such signal QFtp::start()
> QObject::connect:  (sender name:   'unnamed')
> QObject::connect:  (receiver name: 'unnamed')
> QObject::connect: No such signal QFtp::stateChanged()
> QObject::connect:  (sender name:   'unnamed')
> QObject::connect:  (receiver name: 'unnamed')
> QObject::connect: No such signal QFtp::listInfo()
> QObject::connect:  (sender name:   'unnamed')
> QObject::connect:  (receiver name: 'unnamed')
> 0

You must give the full (C++) signature of the signal, eg...

SIGNAL("listInfo(const QUrlInfo &)")

> QSocket::writeBlock: Socket is not open

QFtp is asynchronous. You need an event loop to make sure things actually 
happen.

Phil



From fma at doe.carleton.ca  Tue Apr 13 05:55:10 2004
From: fma at doe.carleton.ca (Fred Ma)
Date: 13 Apr 2004 09:55:10 GMT
Subject: Once-only evaluation of default parameter values function 
 definitions
References: <407B79D7.424F65A1@doe.carleton.ca>
	<107n2g6q9an672b@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <407BB8F5.E694AA49@doe.carleton.ca>

Michael Geary wrote:

> >   Example#1
> >   ---------
> >   def f(a, L=[]):
> >       L.append(a)
> >       return L
> >
> >   Example#2
> >   ---------
> >   def f(a, L=None):
> >       if L is None:
> >           L = []
> >       L.append(a)
> >       return L
>
> Here's a simpler example:
> 
> >>> a = []
> >>> b = a
> >>> a
> []
> >>> b
> []
> >>> a.append(1)
> >>> a
> [1]
> >>> b
> [1]
> 
> See what happened? The statement 'b = a' didn't make a copy of a and
> store it in b. Instead, it made the name b refer to the same object
> as a. So, when I said b.append(1), it meant exactly the same thing
> as if I'd said a.append(1).

Thanks, Mike.  That's alot clearer.  The default value looks like it's
a persistent object.  It is similar to a static local variable in C++.
In Example#1, that object actually got changed.  In contrast, in
Example#2, the code prevents L from remaining bound to None beyond the
first line, so the None object never gets changed.  In fact, my 2nd
explanation was close: that there is an unnamed persistent object that
holds the default value to be bound to L for invocations that don't
explicity supply an argument for L. The place I went wrong was to say
that L never gets bound to None again, after it has been bound to a
caller supplied object on a previous invocation of the function.

Fred


From drs at remove-to-send-mail-ecpsoftware.com  Tue Apr 20 03:52:06 2004
From: drs at remove-to-send-mail-ecpsoftware.com (drs)
Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 07:52:06 GMT
Subject: Book "Programming on Win32" still useful?
References: <39cbe663.0404192259.3e105972@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <GE4hc.60853$1U2.26722@twister.nyroc.rr.com>

"Piet" <pit.grinja at gmx.de> wrote in message
news:39cbe663.0404192259.3e105972 at posting.google.com...
> Hi all,
> I started programming (or hacking) python some time ago. Since python
> offers a lot of Win32 specific extensions and since my OS will
> probably stay Win2k for the next time, I would like to know the
> possibilities of Win32 programming with python a little better. In
> this context I stumbled over the book mentioned in the title, which
> really looks like what I?ve been looking for, but I am a little afraid
> because it was published 4 years ago and covers only python 1.52. Both
> Python and the Win32 interface have been continuously developped, and
> I don?t know whether the things I can learn from this book are still
> useful today. Can somebody give me some advice whether this book is
> still a good buy? I think it will surely be enough to get the basics,
> but what if I want more?

It is still very useful.  While Python has changed, the parts that are
covered in the book have not changed that much.  Further, aside from .NET,
win32 is about the same -- particularly since you are using the version of
windows that was current when the book was published.

-d




From loic at fejoz.net  Thu Apr 29 11:04:41 2004
From: loic at fejoz.net (Yermat)
Date: Thu, 29 Apr 2004 17:04:41 +0200
Subject: python 2.3's lambda behaves old fashioned
In-Reply-To: <c6r3qo$1574k$1@hades.rz.uni-saarland.de>
References: <c6r3qo$1574k$1@hades.rz.uni-saarland.de>
Message-ID: <c6r5ms$fk7$1@arcturus.ciril.fr>

Uwe Schmitt wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> I just tried (Python 2.3)
> 
>     li = [ lambda x: x*a for a in range(10) ]
> 
> which results in 
> 
>     li[0](1) = 9
>     ...
>     li[9](1) = 9
> 
> In order to achieve the intended result I had to fall back on the
> following trick:
> 
>     li = [ lambda x,a=a: x*a for a in range(10)]
> 
> which leads to the expected result.
> 
> Any explanations ???
> 
> Greetings, Uwe.
>  
> 

exactly like this thread :
http://groups.google.fr/groups?hl=fr&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&threadm=tyfn0696x8w.fsf%40pcepsft001.cern.ch&rnum=2&prev=/groups%3Fq%3Dlambda%2Bdefault%2Bgroup:comp.lang.python%26hl%3Dfr%26lr%3D%26ie%3DUTF-8%26oe%3DUTF-8%26as_drrb%3Db%26as_mind%3D1%26as_minm%3D1%26as_miny%3D2004%26as_maxd%3D29%26as_maxm%3D4%26as_maxy%3D2004%26selm%3Dtyfn0696x8w.fsf%2540pcepsft001.cern.ch%26rnum%3D2
(search "lambda default group:comp.lang.python" on google, thread of the 
6 jan 2004)

or at :
http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&th=4bca1bec20119375&rnum=6

hint: this is a matter of scope...

-- 
Yermat



From mike at nospam.com  Tue Apr 13 01:39:44 2004
From: mike at nospam.com (Mike)
Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2004 22:39:44 -0700
Subject: FutureWarning question
Message-ID: <16mnetilcmds6.1apnyu46tbjpw.dlg@40tude.net>

I ran across the message below in 2.3.2 today. These are the lines of code:

   402: if m1_hi >> 15 & 0x0001 == 1:
   403:    m1_hi = m1_hi | 0xFFFF0000
   404: if m1_lo >> 15 & 0x0001 == 1:
   405:    m1_lo = m1_lo | 0xFFFF0000

This is the warning message:

   pwg.py:403: FutureWarning: hex/oct constants > sys.maxint will return 
   positive values in Python 2.4 and up
      m1_hi = m1_hi | 0xFFFF0000
   pwg.py:405: FutureWarning: hex/oct constants > sys.maxint will return 
   positive values in Python 2.4 and up
      m1_lo = m1_lo | 0xFFFF0000

m1_hi and m1_lo are 32 bit values read from a file. It's not clear to me
what the warning message means. The only constant is 0xffff0000; does the
message mean that the result of the OR operation won't be what I think it
is? Can anyone elucidate?

Thanks,

-- Mike --


From gerrit at nl.linux.org  Fri Apr  9 09:08:31 2004
From: gerrit at nl.linux.org (Gerrit)
Date: Fri, 9 Apr 2004 15:08:31 +0200
Subject: Indent testers needed (Prothon)
In-Reply-To: <tyf3c7ewvlz.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
References: <Unqbc.131025$cx5.57643@fed1read04>
	<c51rpj$2nk5rd$1@ID-180326.news.uni-berlin.de>
	<tyf3c7ewvlz.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
Message-ID: <20040409130831.GA7434@nl.linux.org>

Jacek Generowicz wrote:
> Jon Perez <jbperez808 at yahoo.com> writes:
> > Perhaps the pro-spaces people can explain how they deal
> > with it.
> 
> Emacs

Vim

-- 
Weather in Amsterdam Airport Schiphol, Netherlands 09/04 14:25:
	8.0?C Few clouds mostly cloudy wind 4.5 m/s NNW (-2 m above NAP)
-- 
Experiences with Asperger's Syndrome:
	EN http://topjaklont.student.utwente.nl/english/
	NL http://topjaklont.student.utwente.nl/



From tismer at stackless.com  Fri Apr  2 08:36:20 2004
From: tismer at stackless.com (Christian Tismer)
Date: Fri, 02 Apr 2004 15:36:20 +0200
Subject: Fake post alert(was: Stackless Website down, Project gone,
	I'm dead.)
In-Reply-To: <DE1CF2B4FEC4A342BF62B6B2B334601E561F9E@opus.amorhq.net>
References: <DE1CF2B4FEC4A342BF62B6B2B334601E561F9E@opus.amorhq.net>
Message-ID: <406D6C54.7070900@stackless.com>

Robert Brewer wrote:

...

> I hope I'm hearing your words as worse than you mean them. I haven't
> been on this list for long, but I've quickly learned to appreciate your
> ingenuity, experience, and determination. I was going to tell you today
> I ended up using your solution to my recent deduping problem
> (sufficiently molded to my existing code, of course ;)--I really
> appreciate your help with that!

That's nice to hear! I'm interested to know how you got
along with removing relationships between records.

> If Stackless is truly gone, I pray you are able to find a new project or
> group where you feel truly useful.

I don't deserver this honor, since I didn't write that nonsense.
But many thanks, anyway.

sincerely -- chris
-- 
Christian Tismer             :^)   <mailto:tismer at stackless.com>
Mission Impossible 5oftware  :     Have a break! Take a ride on Python's
Johannes-Niemeyer-Weg 9a     :    *Starship* http://starship.python.net/
14109 Berlin                 :     PGP key -> http://wwwkeys.pgp.net/
work +49 30 89 09 53 34  home +49 30 802 86 56  mobile +49 173 24 18 776
PGP 0x57F3BF04       9064 F4E1 D754 C2FF 1619  305B C09C 5A3B 57F3 BF04
      whom do you want to sponsor today?   http://www.stackless.com/




From tim.one at comcast.net  Mon Apr 19 22:48:48 2004
From: tim.one at comcast.net (Tim Peters)
Date: Mon, 19 Apr 2004 22:48:48 -0400
Subject: datetimes, tzinfo and gmtime epoch
In-Reply-To: <m21xmkkorw.fsf@mother.paradise.lost>
Message-ID: <E1BFlJe-0003cB-EL@mail.python.org>

[John Hunter]
> ...
> Thanks Tim Peters for defining all these nice tzinfo classes!  Why
> aren't these part of the standard datetime module, or are they lurking
> somewhere in there?

Guido & I wrote a handful of sample tzinfo classes, but none are in the
distribution outside of documentation.  People argued too much, and there
wasn't time to sort that all out.  The hope was that people who actually
*use* time zones (not necessarily the same set of people as like to argue
about them) would combine forces and contribute a comprehensive set of
tzinfo classes.  Alas, so far nobody has even contributed a PEP on the
topic.

supply-equals-supply-ly y'rs  - tim





From usenet at microtonal.co.uk  Wed Apr 14 09:56:20 2004
From: usenet at microtonal.co.uk (Graham Breed)
Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2004 14:56:20 +0100
Subject: Bug in eval function?
In-Reply-To: <e567c03a.0404140635.95a208b@posting.google.com>
References: <e567c03a.0404140635.95a208b@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <Pccfc.1723$Z07.300@news-binary.blueyonder.co.uk>

Pascal wrote:
>>>>eval('88200')
> 
> 88200
> 
>>>>eval('00088200')
> 
> 
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "<pyshell#11>", line 1, in -toplevel-
>     eval('00088200')
>   File "<string>", line 1
>     00088200
>            ^
> SyntaxError: invalid token

Yep!

 >>> eval('010')
8

A leading zero means an octal number.  You can't have digits larger than 
7 in octal.  The token it says is invalid is invalid.  It isn't invalid, 
unless you've spotted something more subtle being wrong.


                       Graham


From solution88pro at hotmail.com  Wed Apr  7 08:05:59 2004
From: solution88pro at hotmail.com (Senthoorkumaran Punniamoorthy)
Date: Wed, 07 Apr 2004 18:05:59 +0600
Subject: String comparison problem
Message-ID: <BAY8-F98V8YHMOa1EXo00034f74@hotmail.com>

I am printing these information.

	print string.lower(info_res[2])
	print string.lower(md5sum(f_md5))
	print len(string.lower(info_res[2]))
	print len(string.lower(md5sum(f_md5)))
	print str(string.lower(md5sum(f_md5)) == string.lower(info_res[2]))

and the output are

01b7ebfc27437a90cc421c50df8f9ac5
01b7ebfc27437a90cc421c50df8f9ac5
32
32
False

I was wondering why the last print statement is returning false when two 
strings are identical?

Senthoor

_________________________________________________________________
Tired of spam? Get advanced junk mail protection with MSN 8. 
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From pxlpluker at cfl.rr.com  Sun Apr  4 15:00:46 2004
From: pxlpluker at cfl.rr.com (pxlpluker)
Date: Sun, 04 Apr 2004 15:00:46 -0400
Subject: ANNOUNCE: 'goto' for Python
In-Reply-To: <dka070lq7er483d0cuv1fn2gvhst4ec3ff@4ax.com>
References: <ip1t60pm9gu1ou8r0atn63en2iom91hg7r@4ax.com>
	<LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCAEOAJPAB.tim.one@comcast.net>
	<dka070lq7er483d0cuv1fn2gvhst4ec3ff@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <40705B5E.5010709@cfl.rr.com>

Hi Richie,
If i am reading the docs right we can only goto/comefrom within the same 
"container" that goto is defined in. I see it as a way to skip sections 
of code based on earlier decisions. If i am right i sure could have used 
this 2 weeks ago. I am a python noob and I eventually just set a "skip 
this" flag with an if statement.

Richie Hindle wrote:

>[Tim]
>  
>
>>Guido has already accepted your module for inclusion in Python 2.4, and I
>>expect he'll use his time machine then to ensure that it's always been part
>>of Python.
>>    
>>
>
>Great!  That will have saved me a lot of work, once the new time-line
>comes into effect.  I can re-use the time for the next job - enhancing
>Python's parser to allow Duff's Device.
>
>  
>
>>[Explanation of numeric labels snipped]
>>Your introduction of alphanumeric labels to Python is already far advanced.
>>    
>>
>
>Ah, OK, good.  I won't have to re-learn anything when the new feature goes
>into Python 0.1.
>
>  
>
>>I must say, though, that the restriction to 5 digits in Fortran had the nice
>>Pythonic effect of discouraging a subroutine from containing more than a
>>hundred thousand branch targets
>>    
>>
>
>That's a good point, but not really applicable here.  I haven't limited
>the number of labels, partly because I don't want any B&D to the feature,
>and partly because alphanumeric labels ought to be more differentiable
>than numeric ones.
>
>  
>
>>Full speed ahead!
>>    
>>
>
>Or backwards, or in fact to pretty much anywhere!
>
>  
>





From opengeometry at yahoo.ca  Thu Apr 22 16:49:06 2004
From: opengeometry at yahoo.ca (William Park)
Date: 22 Apr 2004 20:49:06 GMT
Subject: Regexp optimization question
References: <slrnc8gal3.9da.mlh@furu.idi.ntnu.no>
Message-ID: <c69b42$9f6eq$1@ID-99293.news.uni-berlin.de>

Magnus Lie Hetland <mlh at furu.idi.ntnu.no> wrote:
> Any ideas?

Few concrete examples, perhaps?  Sadly, my telepathetic power is not
what it used to be...

-- 
William Park, Open Geometry Consulting, <opengeometry at yahoo.ca>
Linux solution/training/migration, Thin-client


From bokr at oz.net  Wed Apr 28 21:30:55 2004
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 29 Apr 2004 01:30:55 GMT
Subject: Explanation of Instance Variables in Python
References: <pssv80dmliqnmlihb0eokkgkqhvoji3l7t@4ax.com>
	<c6pklt$eo6$0@216.39.172.122>
Message-ID: <c6plsf$h2i$0@216.39.172.122>

On 29 Apr 2004 01:10:21 GMT, bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter) wrote:

>On Wed, 28 Apr 2004 11:25:08 -0700, David MacQuigg <dmq at gain.com> wrote:
>
>>
>>I am writing a chapter for teaching OOP in Python.  This chapter is
>>intended as a brief introduction to replace the more complete
>>discussion in Learning Python, 2nd ed, pp. 295-390.  I need to explain
>>instance variables.
You might want to mention early that they are a special subset
of object attributes, and that understanding the Python rules for accessing
attributes in general is critical to understanding its implementation of OOP.
>>
>>=====================================
>>
>>Thanks for your help on this project.
>>
>I find well-annotated examples best for understanding something new.
>It also gives me working code to play with, to explore variations.
>How things break is often as instructive as how they work.
>
>I would suggest you encourage your students to experiment interactively.
>E.g., ask who can explain the following, and see what you get, and then
>collaborate with them to write sufficient comments to where they feel
>they "get it."
>
Actually, looking at my previous example, maybe this would give more hints,
in case they don't discover for themselves (strongly urge teaching how to
fish, not serving fish, though ;-):

 >>> class C(object): pass
 ...
 >>> def f(*args): print 'f was called with', args
 ...
 >>> f
 <function f at 0x008FDEB0>
 >>> C
 <class '__main__.C'>
 >>> f('hello')
 f was called with ('hello',)
 >>> c=C()
 >>> c
 <__main__.C object at 0x00901370>
 >>> c.f('hello')
 Traceback (most recent call last):
   File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
 AttributeError: 'C' object has no attribute 'f'
 >>> c.f = f
 >>> c.f
 <function f at 0x008FDEB0>
 >>> c.f('hello')
 f was called with ('hello',)
 >>> C.f = f
 >>> c.f
 <function f at 0x008FDEB0>
 >>> c.f('hello')
 f was called with ('hello',)
 >>> del c.f
 >>> c.f
 <bound method C.f of <__main__.C object at 0x00901370>>
 >>> c.f('hello')
 f was called with (<__main__.C object at 0x00901370>, 'hello')

Regards,
Bengt Richter


From paul at prescod.net  Sat Apr 10 19:16:03 2004
From: paul at prescod.net (Paul Prescod)
Date: Sat, 10 Apr 2004 16:16:03 -0700
Subject: Python is the best and most popular general purpose scripting
 language; the universal scripting language
In-Reply-To: <20040410225019.GA16891@vulcan.cprogrammer.org>
References: <a5415304.0404101350.271088f2@posting.google.com>	<roy-22B4DA.18282210042004@reader1.panix.com>
	<20040410225019.GA16891@vulcan.cprogrammer.org>
Message-ID: <40788033.3030209@prescod.net>

Jonathan Daugherty wrote:

> # So, what makes something a "scripting language" as opposed to a 
> # "programming language"?
> 
> In a general sense I think "programming" languages are compiled and
> "scripting" languages are interpreted.  (If you want to go academic,
> you could say python is both, but the internals of the interpreter are
> irrelavant insofar as one might say it is an interpreted language.)
> 

So which is Lisp? Prolog? Smalltalk? ML?

What happens if I compile Python to a binary via Pyrex or to JVM 
bytecodes via Jython?

I propose:

A scripting language is a language that makes scripting (gluing together 
components) easy.

A programming language is a language that makes programming (including 
the creation of components) easy.

Python is both.

  Paul Prescod





From fabio.trezziCANCELLAMI at email.it  Tue Apr 20 17:20:28 2004
From: fabio.trezziCANCELLAMI at email.it (Wezzy)
Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 23:20:28 +0200
Subject: emacs for OS X
References: <See_my-BB1217.02175320042004@news.verizon.net>
	<1gcjrc7.1s60i39g5q0kiN%fabio.trezziCANCELLAMI@email.it>
	<mailman.811.1082487278.20120.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1gckdxe.x3vsll1r5u4tfN%fabio.trezziCANCELLAMI@email.it>

Skip Montanaro <skip at pobox.com> wrote:

>     Wezzy> Download python-mode from python.org:
>     Wezzy>  http://www.python.org/emacs/python-mode/python-mode.el
> 
> Ancient, ancient, ancient!
> 
> Pop up a level to 
> 
>     http://www.python.org/emacs/python-mode/
> 
> and you'll read:
> 
>     The current release of python-mode.el is no longer maintained on this
>     website. Check the python-mode project on Sourceforge instead.
> 

Today when i post my message i've opened
http://www.python.org/emacs/python-mode/ and followed the link to sf.net
but the project hasn't released any file yet, so i've posted the url to
the www.python.org version that is still online.

> The version you referred to (which I don't think is any longer linked to
> from the website) is 4.6.  The current version is 4.54.
> 

i've downloaded python-mode.el few time ago so i didn't know that there
are new versions, thanks for this info. (Anyway the old one is still
online)

-- 
Ciao
Fabio


From http  Thu Apr 22 02:30:00 2004
From: http (Paul Rubin)
Date: 21 Apr 2004 23:30:00 -0700
Subject: Naming conventions
References: <5a88ee0a.0404212223.15f50fe9@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <7xzn94sexj.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

uzairaqeel at yahoo.com (Uzair) writes:
> Why aren't the names of the modules in the standard library fixed so
> that they follow some actual naming convention? That is probably the
> biggest deterrent for new users -- having to dig through several
> sources to find the module they're interested in. And, as with urllib
> and urllib2, it isn't even clear at first glance which is more useful
> and when it should be used...

The usual convention with things like urllib/urllib2 is that someone
writes urllib, people use it and gain experience with it, and learn
that it would benefit from enhancements that would break existing code
that uses it.  So a new module gets implemented that has the
enhancements but is incompatible with the old module.  That way, new
code can use the new module but old code can keep using the old
module.


From Mike at DeleteThis.Geary.com  Thu Apr 15 14:06:22 2004
From: Mike at DeleteThis.Geary.com (Michael Geary)
Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2004 11:06:22 -0700
Subject: CamelCase versus wide_names (Prothon)
References: <UHxfc.9323$dZ1.3740@fed1read04>
	<Qeyfc.360$kb.30229@news.uswest.net>
Message-ID: <107tjp2qvgof4b0@corp.supernews.com>

Kevin Altis wrote:
> If you're using PEP 8 terminology then CamelCase is different
> than mixedCase. CamelCase is often used for class names and
> mixedCase for everything else.

Just to add to the confusing terminology, in some circles mixed case with an
initial lowercase letter is called camelCase, while mixed case with initial
uppercase is called PascalCase. :-)

http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?CamelCase
http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?PascalCase

In any case ;-) Mark is referring to both forms, WithInitialCapital and
withoutInitialCapital.

The initial capital letter actually has significance in Prothon (I
think--unless that has changed). So the question is whether to use
NamesLikeThis and namesLikeThis, or Names_like_this and names_like_this.

-Mike (instigator of the discussion and major fan of [Mm]ixedCaseNames,
whatever they are called)




From boblancaster at zxmail.com  Tue Apr 27 10:47:48 2004
From: boblancaster at zxmail.com (Bob Lancaster)
Date: 27 Apr 2004 07:47:48 -0700
Subject: Regular Expressions
References: <mailman.21.1082993871.25742.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <b470cb58.0404270647.6252ffe4@posting.google.com>

"Robert Brewer" <fumanchu at amor.org> wrote in message news:<mailman.21.1082993871.25742.python-list at python.org>...
> sjf wrote:
> > I would like to please to help me with build a regular expression.
> > There are following piece of html code in my files:
> > 
> > <FONT COLOR="#FF0000">A - TYPE1: any text<BR>
> > B - TYPE2: any text 2<BR>
> > C - TYPE2: any text 3<BR>
> > w - any text 15<BR>
> > </FONT>
> > html code
> > </BODY></HTML>
> > 
> > I need to have only following data:
> > (B, any text 2)
> > (C, any text 3)
> > that is, these data TYPE2 in which.
> 
> If you can guarantee that every TYPE2 is on its own line with the same
> formatting:
> 
> >>> s = '<FONT COLOR="#FF0000">A - TYPE1: any text<BR>\nB - TYPE2:
> any text 2<BR>\nC - TYPE2: any text 3<BR>\nw -
> any text 15<BR>\n</FONT>\nhtml code'
> >>> import re
> >>> re.findall(r'(?m)^(.) - TYPE2: (.*)<BR>$', s)
> [('B', 'any text 2'), ('C', 'any text 3')]
> 
> 
> Robert Brewer
> MIS
> Amor Ministries
> fumanchu at amor.org


Thank you for this post.  I am working on a completely different
project, and this information was quite helpful for me in dealing with
formatted output.

-Bob Lancaster

rlancasterATbruker-axsDOTcom


From max at alcyone.com  Fri Apr  2 04:05:25 2004
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Fri, 02 Apr 2004 01:05:25 -0800
Subject: String concatenation
References: <wS8bc.4382$px6.64058@news2.e.nsc.no>
	<7xisgi24fm.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<Rz9bc.4514$zf6.60676@news4.e.nsc.no>
	<406D27A7.6550A00B@alcyone.com>
	<ZW9bc.4389$px6.64242@news2.e.nsc.no>
Message-ID: <406D2CD5.878EBD4E@alcyone.com>

"Leif B. Kristensen" wrote:

> And here's what the interpreter says:
> 
>     tmp=[x for x in res if x and x[0] != '-']
>           ^
> SyntaxError: invalid syntax
> 
> The marker has moved to the right, maybe because I removed the spaces
> on
> both sides of the = sign?

At this point I don't know what's going on since there's a communication
problem; Python's exception specification is based on the code you
entered, not the code it thought you meant, so you're having a
cutting-and-pasting problem at least on one side here.

If indentation is not to blame, it's possible that the problem is that
you're not running a version of Python that understands list
comprehensions.

-- 
 __ Erik Max Francis && max at alcyone.com && http://www.alcyone.com/max/
/  \ San Jose, CA, USA && 37 20 N 121 53 W && AIM erikmaxfrancis
\__/ They love too much that die for love.
    -- (an English proverb)


From maxm at mxm.dk  Fri Apr  2 07:09:54 2004
From: maxm at mxm.dk (Max M)
Date: Fri, 02 Apr 2004 14:09:54 +0200
Subject: Stackless Website down, Project gone, I'm dead.
In-Reply-To: <mailman.253.1080872984.20120.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.253.1080872984.20120.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <406d5800$0$206$edfadb0f@dread12.news.tele.dk>

Christian Tismer wrote:

> p.s.: I've taken the capsule, short time ago.
> p.p.s.: This message was sent to you on April 2, to make
> sure that it is not misinterpreted as a bad April 1 joke.
> The bad joke was about that bad intruder. See you soon,
> in heaven or somehwere else :-)


If this is a joke, it is in poor taste.

Max M


From chrish at cryptocard.com  Wed Apr 14 08:31:45 2004
From: chrish at cryptocard.com (Chris Herborth)
Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2004 08:31:45 -0400
Subject: Simple pyhon-based CMS
In-Reply-To: <9396ba6f.0404131817.1219c695@posting.google.com>
References: <9396ba6f.0404131817.1219c695@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <Oaafc.12562$vF3.1221694@news20.bellglobal.com>

Stewart Midwinter wrote:
> I'm looking for a simple python-based CMS (content management system),
> maybe with some blog-like features, ability to add articles - nothing
> too fancy.  Do you have any suggestions?

A friend of mine is working on one called MangoBery 
(http://sourceforge.net/projects/mangobery/), which is in use at several 
sites... not sure if it meets your needs, but take a look.

> Stewart in Calgary

MangoBery's developer is in BC, so if you need to chat with him the time 
zones won't screw you up. ;-)

-- 
Chris Herborth                                     chrish at cryptocard.com
Documentation Overlord, CRYPTOCard Corp.      http://www.cryptocard.com/
Never send a monster to do the work of an evil scientist.
Postatem obscuri lateris nescitis.


From peter at engcorp.com  Tue Apr 27 10:03:16 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2004 10:03:16 -0400
Subject: Is Perl *that* good?
In-Reply-To: <roy-830B7D.08351627042004@reader2.panix.com>
References: <c6ich0$c5mee$1@ID-205437.news.uni-berlin.de>
	<iL3jc.232$Yc.2330@news4.e.nsc.no>
	<108q51j4dscn7dc@corp.supernews.com>
	<knbjc.267$id.3998@news2.e.nsc.no>
	<pan.2004.04.26.20.50.19.843510@hotmail.com>
	<87fzaqmm8t.fsf@strauser.com>
	<38ec68a6.0404262308.50029919@posting.google.com>
	<du765bles9i.fsf@lehtori.cc.tut.fi>
	<roy-830B7D.08351627042004@reader2.panix.com>
Message-ID: <D6-dnWDUSOG59RPdRVn-vA@powergate.ca>

Roy Smith wrote:

> I don't see anything in the reference manual which says re.match() 
> caches compilations, but I suspect it does.  Even a trivial check for 
> "thisRegEx is lastRegEx" would be sufficient to negate the speed 
> advantage of pre-compiling in most cases.  Anybody know if it does this?

Found after trying a half dozen different searches.  (Short answer: yes.)

http://groups.google.com/groups?q=comp.lang.python+cache+regular+match&selm=mailman.1058996747.17558.python-list%40python.org

-Peter


From nicksjacobson at yahoo.com  Thu Apr 29 15:09:03 2004
From: nicksjacobson at yahoo.com (Nick Jacobson)
Date: 29 Apr 2004 12:09:03 -0700
Subject: static keyword
References: <f8097096.0404290607.78aa9ce3@posting.google.com>
	<LeydnWxdT6atjgzdRVn-sA@powergate.ca>
Message-ID: <f8097096.0404291109.5cdaa37b@posting.google.com>

> 
> Why do you call using OO ("wrapping it in a class", as you say)
> a "hack"?  Generally speaking, using objects to contain state
> information such as this is exactly what most people would call
> the cleanest, best approach.
> 
> class HasState:
>      def __init__(self):
>          self.firstCall = True
>          self.i = [10, 11]
> 
>      def foo(self):
>          if self.firstCall:
>              print "First pass"
>              self.firstCall = False
>          self.i[0] += 1
>          print self.i[0]
> 
> obj = HasState()
> obj.foo()
> obj.foo()
> 
> Now, without arguing that it has 11 lines instead of 8 to do the
> same thing (because then I'd just point out that this was a contrived
> example anyway, and that it is more easily extended, and more obvious
> what was going on, etc. :-) ), can you describe why you call this is
> a "hack"?
> 
> -Peter

I don't know if "hack" is the right word.  What I meant is it seems
like overkill to have to make (and name) a class, plus add a second
function, every time you want a function to have a static variable.


From moosebumps at moosebumps.com  Sat Apr  3 16:01:07 2004
From: moosebumps at moosebumps.com (Moosebumps)
Date: Sat, 03 Apr 2004 21:01:07 GMT
Subject: HTML writer
References: <yL9bc.45202$wH3.33614@newssvr25.news.prodigy.com>
	<406D3C97.7020006@livinglogic.de>
	<lUubc.17806$pq2.8384@newssvr27.news.prodigy.com>
	<c4mh8n$bmv$1@plaza.suomi.net>
Message-ID: <nCFbc.17930$H26.12388@newssvr27.news.prodigy.com>

Thanks to all for the feedback -- that was very useful!  I think I will go
with XIST.

MB

"Tuure Laurinolli" <tuure at laurinolli.net> wrote in message
news:c4mh8n$bmv$1 at plaza.suomi.net...
> Moosebumps wrote:
>
> > That is, I would not like any specific HTML tags anywhere in my own
code,
> > and it seems like that is what they will allow me to do.  But I would be
> > interested to hear opinions/experiences with these packages.
>
> I spent a couple of days last week getting to know each of these. I
> found HTMLgen as I was getting desperate with the tag soup in my code
> and quickly converted the code to use it. Then I found out it only does
> HTML 3.2, missing end tags of elements and such. Some parts of the model
> also weren't as generic as they should have been.
>
> Next I stumbled upon HyperText, which seemed to fix all the
> incosistencies of HTMLgen, and also output XHTML 1.0. THe problem was
> that I found no way to use web forms with it. The 'name'-attribute of an
> input tag seemed to be impossible to set(ie. foo.name didn't do the
> right thing, foo['name'] was illegal and there weren't any obvious false
> names like klass <-> class). Fixing this would have been easy, but I
> decided to look for alternatives.
>
> The final option seemed to be XIST, of which HTML seems to be only small
> part. It seems to implement HTML in a consistent fashion, allowing all
> the necessary tag attributes to be set and otherwise providing a nice
> interface to the horrible world of web :)
>
> -- Tuure Laurinolli




From fnord at u.washington.edu  Fri Apr 16 17:46:00 2004
From: fnord at u.washington.edu (Lonnie Princehouse)
Date: 16 Apr 2004 14:46:00 -0700
Subject: empty window when using askopenfile
References: <ac259413.0404161054.3bcaeaa8@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <f70e3538.0404161346.4dc3877c@posting.google.com>

s_gherman at yahoo.com (Sorin Gherman) wrote in message news:<ac259413.0404161054.3bcaeaa8 at posting.google.com>...

> Is there any way to minimize/hide the annoying default, empty Tk
> window that shows behind the native file opening dialog , when using
> askopenfile, etc, in tkCommonDialog?


Ah, the pesky Tk root window.  You can minimize it, but I don't think
you can make it disappear completely (without nuking the rest of Tk).

Try this-

import Tkinter, tkFileDialog

tkroot = Tkinter.Tk()
tkroot.iconify()

tkFileDialog.askopenfile()

# If you're not doing anything with Tk besides prompting for the file,
# you'll want to get ride of the root window after askopenfile-
tkroot.destroy()


Alternately, you could just put a pretty picture in the root window
and call it a feature =)


From jepler at unpythonic.net  Tue Apr 20 14:55:38 2004
From: jepler at unpythonic.net (Jeff Epler)
Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 13:55:38 -0500
Subject: co_freevars question
In-Reply-To: <DE1CF2B4FEC4A342BF62B6B2B334601E56202B@opus.amorhq.net>
References: <DE1CF2B4FEC4A342BF62B6B2B334601E56202B@opus.amorhq.net>
Message-ID: <20040420185537.GG2937@unpythonic.net>

co_freevars names variables that come from an enclosing scope that is
not module scope.

def g():
    return y
print g.func_code.co_freevars       # ()

def f():
    y = 3
    def g(): 
        return y
    print g.func_code.co_freevars   # ('y',)
f()

Jeff



From temp1-nospam at nospam-hatless-nospam.com  Wed Apr 28 01:48:35 2004
From: temp1-nospam at nospam-hatless-nospam.com (S Koppelman)
Date: Wed, 28 Apr 2004 05:48:35 GMT
Subject: Is Perl *that* good?
In-Reply-To: <knbjc.267$id.3998@news2.e.nsc.no>
References: <c6ich0$c5mee$1@ID-205437.news.uni-berlin.de>
	<iL3jc.232$Yc.2330@news4.e.nsc.no>
	<108q51j4dscn7dc@corp.supernews.com>
	<knbjc.267$id.3998@news2.e.nsc.no>
Message-ID: <TAHjc.34088$cF6.1592539@attbi_s04>

Leif B. Kristensen wrote:
> Cameron Laird rose and spake:
>>In article <iL3jc.232$Yc.2330 at news4.e.nsc.no>,
>>Leif B. Kristensen <junkmail at solumslekt.org> wrote:
>>
>>>getting dynamic HTML pages up and running quickly. Perl is great for
>>>its string-handling abilities. (On my Web pages, I actually call a
>>>Perl script from PHP precisely for this reason.)
>>.
>>I hear this more often than I understand it.  Perl certainly
>>does support many string-oriented operations.  What's a speci-
>>fic example, though, of an action you feel more comfortable
>>coding in external Perl?  I suspect there's something I need
>>to learn about PHP's deficiencies, or Perl's power.
> 
> I'm glad that you asked :-)
> 
> The routine is for a phonetic search in Norwegian 18th century names,
> which can be spelled in an amazing number of different ways. As I found
> that the Soundex algorithm was useless for Norwegian spellings, I
> invented my own. It's not really an algorithm, but a series of
> substitutions that reduces names to a kind of primitives. Thus, eg.....
> 
> Here's a small sample:
> 
> $str =~ s/HN/N/g;        # John --> JON
> $str =~ s/TH/T/g;        # Thor --> TOR ....
 >
> [snip]
> 
> In theory, the web routine for phonetic searches might have been
> implemented in PHP. The trouble with that is that I would have to
> maintain both a PHP and a Perl version of the same routine. I find it
> much easier to just copy and paste the whole mess (at present about 120
> lines) between the encoding and the decoding routines in Perl, and run
> an exec("perl norphon.pl $name") from PHP.

Well, that's not PHP's fault, especially with such straightforward 
regexps. The only reason to user perl over PHP in that case is the valid 
one you cite: you already wrote the damned code in perl. ;)

Meanwhile, wouldn't it run more efficiently if you hosted your perl 
functions under mod_perl or some other persistent harness like a SOAP or 
XML-RPC daemon and had the PHP call accross to that? Execing out and 
having perl launch, compile and run your script each time is a waste of 
resources, not to mention needlessly slow. You might not notice it if 
you're the only person using it, but if there's a sudden uptick in 
traffic to your site from fellow Scandinavian diaspora genaologists, you 
will.

-sk


From chris.cavalaria at free.fr  Fri Apr 30 09:50:50 2004
From: chris.cavalaria at free.fr (Christophe Cavalaria)
Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2004 15:50:50 +0200
Subject: operator double() surprise in cxx
In-Reply-To: <mailman.150.1083326778.25742.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.145.1083293891.25742.python-list@python.org>	<pan.2004.04.30.05.54.47.953852@ifrance.com>
	<mailman.150.1083326778.25742.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <409259b9$0$20177$636a15ce@news.free.fr>

John Hunter wrote:
>>>>>>"Beno?t" == Beno?t Dejean <bnetNOSPAM at ifrance.com> writes:
> 
>     >> double l( Py::Float(rect[0]) ); double b( Py::Float(rect[1]) );
> 
>     Beno?t> everything that looks/tastes/sounds like a function
>     Beno?t> declaration is (even with parameters.
> 
>   double l( Py::Float(rect[0]) );
> 
> the compiler thinks I am declaring a function l that takes Py::Float*
> as an argument and returns a double? 

Exactly

> Hmm.  This line was inside a
> class method -- I didn't think you could declare functions in a class
> method....

Well, you can declare a function nearly everywhere in fact.

> Still confused, but perhaps on the road to enlightenment.

Try that :

double l(( Py::Float(rect[0]) ));


From python at holdenweb.com  Tue Apr 13 10:06:02 2004
From: python at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2004 10:06:02 -0400
Subject: mcmillan installer
In-Reply-To: <mailman.575.1081855698.20120.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.575.1081855698.20120.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <KzSec.628$2e6.535@lakeread01>

Gianluca Trombetta wrote:

> Hi all,
> 
> I'm searching a tool that compile python script to an executable binary.
> I found the mcmillan installer but i can't find a valid url to download it.
> 
> Do someone know a valid url to download it or know another similar tool?
> 
> Thanks.
> Gianluca
> 
> 
> 
> 
Unfortunately Gordon Macmillan seems to have disappeared without trace, 
which is a great pity. The macmillan-inc domain registration appears to 
have expired without renewal:

Whois Server Version 1.3

Domain names in the .com and .net domains can now be registered
with many different competing registrars. Go to http://www.internic.net
for detailed information.

No match for "MACMILLAN-INC.COM".

 >>> Last update of whois database: Tue, 13 Apr 2004 07:17:14 EDT <<<

If anybody has news of Gordon I'm sure many people would like to know 
he's OK. His work on the installer was much admired, and we should try 
to make sure it isn't lost.

regards
  Steve



From rstephens at vectron.com  Sat Apr 10 17:50:11 2004
From: rstephens at vectron.com (Ron Stephens)
Date: 10 Apr 2004 14:50:11 -0700
Subject: Python is the best and most popular general purpose scripting
	language; the universal scripting language
Message-ID: <a5415304.0404101350.271088f2@posting.google.com>

Python is the best and most popular general purpose scripting
language. That is, Python is the best and most popular general
purpose, dynamic, interpreted language. Sure, there are other
scripting languages that are more popular for specific application
domains, and there are big company backed systems languages that are
far more popular; but in its niche, Python is tops.

Being open source, and not backed by big companies' marketing dollars,
Python is not even in the same league as Java, and the .NET languages
C# and VB.Net. Those corporate backed entities have incredibly
powerful tools, IDE's and marketing dollars behind them.

And, among scripting languages PHP is tops for server side web
scripting, Perl is number one for text parsing and CGI, Ruby is
perhaps most popular with object oriented purists who don't mind the
Perl-like syntax, and Javascript is most popular for client side web
scripting, given its nearly universal support by web browsers. But for
general purpose scripting, Python is clearly number one and gaining in
strength.

That positions Python as the universal scripting language. Not only
does the Python virtual machine run on almost every platform, but
Jython is available for the JVM and IronPython is in the works for
.Net and Mono.

Let's face it, we could sit around and bemoan the fact that the big
commercial "systems" languages have such incredible tool support and
marketing muscle, such as the .Net juggernaut and the IBM, SUN, BEA
and other IDE's for Java.

But, better to take heart that for the pure writing of code, Python
has the opportunity to become the universal solvent. It just may be
that, twenty years from now, Python code will run everywhere, and will
be the scripting language of choice on all the big company IDE's as
well.

There may by then be a lot of application areas where subject
specialists create their own database front end's and customize real
applications, by using big company tools that require no code to be
written at all. But, computers will always need actual code, and
Python can be the lingua franca.

And on top of all that, while .NET, Eclipse, JBuilder etc. may
outclass any one Python tool, we do have a plethora of good choices
for almost any job requirement, including good access to about every
important GUI toolkit imaginable, and we even have easy point and
click GUI builders like PythonCard and the on-coming industrial
strength Boa Constructor.

So, Python is well on its way to world domination, just not in the
same manner as Java or C#. Python is more like an underground movement
that sneaks in around the edges and winds up playing a most
significant role for the long run.

Long live Python, the universal solvent!

Ron Stephens
www.awaretek.com/weblog/index.html


From paul at prescod.net  Mon Apr 12 00:13:03 2004
From: paul at prescod.net (Paul Prescod)
Date: Sun, 11 Apr 2004 21:13:03 -0700
Subject: pythonwin crash (used to work) - please help quick.
In-Reply-To: <5Reec.62668$Id.61067@news-binary.blueyonder.co.uk>
References: <5Reec.62668$Id.61067@news-binary.blueyonder.co.uk>
Message-ID: <407A174F.3000901@prescod.net>

Stevie_mac wrote:

> OS=XP, Python 2.3, wx2.5.1.5u
> Not sure what's to blame here - or to be more precise, how to fix it!...
> 
> If I do this in PythonWin...
> import wx
> d = wx.Dialog(None, -1, 'title')
> BANG - IDE crashes

It typically doesn't work to have two GUIs in one process. PythonWin 
uses MFC. Wx is a totally different GUI.

  Paul Prescod





From donn at u.washington.edu  Thu Apr 29 12:56:09 2004
From: donn at u.washington.edu (Donn Cave)
Date: Thu, 29 Apr 2004 09:56:09 -0700
Subject: Why we will use obj$func() often
References: <d2Uhc.22272$dZ1.1600@fed1read04> <84Uhc.22278$dZ1.5087@fed1read04>
	<mailman.927.1082665370.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<8AWhc.23114$dZ1.11070@fed1read04> <40883BFE.B381518A@alcyone.com>
	<27_hc.23801$dZ1.2716@fed1read04> <40887145.789A2FE8@alcyone.com>
	<7cki80hj976bia36lhf9er97v073o1pqvm@4ax.com>
	<w8dic.28710$dZ1.11206@fed1read04> <ulXiAls/KH1K089yn@the-wire.com>
	<lkfic.29767$dZ1.17301@fed1read04>
	<donn-66132E.15345723042004@nntp3.u.washington.edu>
	<PLhic.30493$dZ1.22063@fed1read04>
	<c6huj3$c3s3f$1@ID-169208.news.uni-berlin.de>
	<u8zjc.7394$Qy.127@fed1read04>
	<c6ni3j$e0vbb$1@ID-169208.news.uni-berlin.de>
	<5vJjc.13116$Qy.1954@fed1read04>
	<donn-FB76CA.11024928042004@nntp3.u.washington.edu>
	<52Ujc.16275$Qy.3111@fed1read04>
	<donn-CF90D7.14211828042004@nntp3.u.washington.edu>
	<cfYjc.17360$Qy.5220@fed1read04>
Message-ID: <donn-829377.09560929042004@nntp2.u.washington.edu>

In article <cfYjc.17360$Qy.5220 at fed1read04>,
 "Mark Hahn" <mark at prothon.org> wrote:
...
> Can you share some of your daydream ideas?

Not really my ideas, it's pretty much all there in Haskell
and Clean (though I have no experience with the latter.)
Pure functional, strong static typing with type inference,
compile to native.  It isn't clear that it's ideal - there
may be some inherent limitations to exception handling, the
execution model is often awkward (cf. Monad) at least for
the beginner programmer.  So there's probably room for yet
another variation on the theme, but I'd be using Haskell
now if I could (weakness of platform support, institutional
acceptance.)

Haskell is good for you, though, even if you can't put it
to use in practice.  It's a thoroughly different approach
that's at least good for perspective.  And it's white space
structured.

   Donn Cave, donn at u.washington.edu


From news at ogre.nu  Sat Apr 17 02:45:25 2004
From: news at ogre.nu (Anton Sherwood)
Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2004 23:45:25 -0700
Subject: text storage: shelve vs anydbm vs ?
Message-ID: <1081kgpq4qrsa79@corp.supernews.com>

Rather newbie question here.

My current project will build a database of solutions to a topology 
problem, which I'll eventually put (readonly) on my website.  The 
entries are text of varying length.  The keys are likewise of varying 
length.

Is anydbm the way to go?  Is shelve anything more than a wrapper for it?
Should I be looking at something else?

-- 
Anton Sherwood (prepend "1" to address)
http://www.ogre.nu/


From michael at foord.net  Sat Apr 10 05:57:30 2004
From: michael at foord.net (Fuzzyman)
Date: 10 Apr 2004 02:57:30 -0700
Subject: Why Activestate Python ?
References: <8089854e.0404090025.141f090c@posting.google.com>
	<w0Fdc.35102$uf5.19617@newssvr29.news.prodigy.com>
Message-ID: <8089854e.0404100157.2d253dac@posting.google.com>

[snip..]
> > Fuzzy
> > 
> > http://www.voidspace.org.uk/atlantibots/pythonutils.html
> 
> i think there is an impression generally that Win32 is a harder build 
> platform for OSS projects than Linux-Unix.  Very unscientifically, I 
> think my reading of message boards supports that, at least for Apache, 
> Python, and their related modules.
> 
> I've never tried to build it myself.
> 
> The activestate distribution includes Help files in compiled html 
> format.  Which I do not prefer.  I just download the doc of interest 
> from the python site.

The 'official' version also has docs in 'chm' format... which I
personally find fine (particularly not having internet at home).

Regards,


Fuzzy 

http://www.voidspace.org.uk/atlantibots/pythonutils.html


From pengz1 at netzero.com  Fri Apr  9 00:37:57 2004
From: pengz1 at netzero.com (pengz1 at netzero.com)
Date: Fri, 9 Apr 2004 04:37:57 GMT
Subject: connection with MySQL with Python interface
Message-ID: <20040408.213759.17969.265020@webmail21.nyc.untd.com>


Hi! All
When I tried to connect with MySQL database which run on XP from shell. I got following error message. Has anyone get similar error message and provide any suggestion? Thanks in advance. 

Zhiyong


Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "C:\Python22\databaseAccess.py", line 4, in ?
    con=MySQLdb.connect(host="127.0.0.1",port=3306,user="pengz",passwd="zhiy4318",db="e_retail_store")
  File "C:\PYTHON22\Lib\site-packages\MySQLdb\__init__.py", line 63, in Connect
    return apply(Connection, args, kwargs)
  File "C:\PYTHON22\Lib\site-packages\MySQLdb\connections.py", line 115, in __init__
    self._make_connection(args, kwargs2)
  File "C:\PYTHON22\Lib\site-packages\MySQLdb\connections.py", line 41, in _make_connection
    apply(super(ConnectionBase, self).__init__, args, kwargs)
OperationalError: (2003, "Can't connect to MySQL server on '127.0.0.1' (10061)")
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "C:\Python22\databaseAccess.py", line 4, in ?
    con=MySQLdb.connect(host="127.0.0.1",port=3306,user="pengz",passwd="zhiy4318",db="e_retail_store")
  File "C:\PYTHON22\Lib\site-packages\MySQLdb\__init__.py", line 63, in Connect
    return apply(Connection, args, kwargs)
  File "C:\PYTHON22\Lib\site-packages\MySQLdb\connections.py", line 115, in __init__
    self._make_connection(args, kwargs2)
  File "C:\PYTHON22\Lib\site-packages\MySQLdb\connections.py", line 41, in _make_connection
    apply(super(ConnectionBase, self).__init__, args, kwargs)
OperationalError: (1250, 'Client does not support authentication protocol requested by server; consider upgrading MySQL client')

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From peter.maas at mplusr.de  Mon Apr 26 04:25:47 2004
From: peter.maas at mplusr.de (Peter Maas)
Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2004 10:25:47 +0200
Subject: How's ruby compare to it older brother python
In-Reply-To: <c6ich0$c5mee$1@ID-205437.news.uni-berlin.de>
References: <c6ich0$c5mee$1@ID-205437.news.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <c6ih43$40b$1@swifty.westend.com>

Hunn E. Balsiche wrote:
> I've given up on Perl for its ugly syntax and it is not the easiest language
> to learn. How about PHP?

I forgot http://dada.perl.it/shootout, which is great for performance
comparisons. Source code of the tests can be viewed easily to get a
feeling for the strengths and weaknesses of the syntax as well.

Mit freundlichen Gruessen,

Peter Maas

-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Peter Maas, M+R Infosysteme, D-52070 Aachen, Hubert-Wienen-Str. 24
Tel +49-241-93878-0 Fax +49-241-93878-20 eMail peter.maas at mplusr.de
-------------------------------------------------------------------


From theller at python.net  Mon Apr 26 03:54:46 2004
From: theller at python.net (Thomas Heller)
Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2004 09:54:46 +0200
Subject: help: py2exe and com server
References: <408a78f5$0$41761$5fc3050@dreader2.news.tiscali.nl>
Message-ID: <vfjn6unt.fsf@python.net>

"Paul Mayal" <mayal at tiscali.be> writes:

> Hi,
>
> I have written a com server in python 2.3 (ActiveState distribution). I have
> build the dll with py2exe.
> First of all, py2exe complain he can't find pythoncom module.
> I can register the dll with regsvr32 on my development workstation. But when
> I try to register the com dll on an another workstation, the registration
> fail.

I think you have to use a newer build of pywin32 (formerly called
win32all) than that included with ActiveState python.

Thomas




From cookedm+news at physics.mcmaster.ca  Fri Apr  2 14:42:24 2004
From: cookedm+news at physics.mcmaster.ca (David M. Cooke)
Date: Fri, 02 Apr 2004 14:42:24 -0500
Subject: Travelling salesman variation in python
References: <slrnc6on9h.spl.erlendga@tva.ifi.uio.no>
	<slrnc6qdum.8l0.ncw@irishsea.home.craig-wood.com>
	<c4jikc$eq4$1@swifty.westend.com>
	<slrnc6qo7k.bg8.ncw@irishsea.home.craig-wood.com>
Message-ID: <qnkzn9uxj33.fsf@arbutus.physics.mcmaster.ca>

At some point, Nick Craig-Wood <ncw at axis.demon.co.uk> wrote:

> Peter Maas <peter.maas at mplusr.de> wrote:
>>  Nick Craig-Wood wrote:
>> > I used Simulated Annealing - have a search for the term and you'll see
>> > plenty of references.  Its good at finding a (local) minimum.
>> 
>>  I used to think that Simulated Annealing avoids local traps and
>>  is good at finding a global minimum, at least with a certain
>>  probability that depends on some temperature function. Am I wrong?
>
> You aren't wrong...  It does avoid local traps - that is what the
> simulated annealing bit is for - but it isn't guaranteed to find the
> global minimum otherwise you'd have solved an NP-complete problem in
> polynomial time...

With the right cooling schedule simulated annealing *is* guaranteed to
find the global minimum.

Mind you, that cooling schedule is very slow: the temperature of the
n'th step is T_n = T0/log(n). To get to 1% of your initial
temperature, you'll need about 1e10 steps... polynomial time it ain't.

Most SA cooling schedules you'll see use a quench (T_n = T0*a**n for
some a) or a Cauchy distribution (T_n = T0/n) which are faster, but
aren't guaranteed to give you a global minimum.

-- 
|>|\/|<
/--------------------------------------------------------------------------\
|David M. Cooke
|cookedm(at)physics(dot)mcmaster(dot)ca


From pellis.nospam at tampabay.rr.com  Fri Apr  9 23:50:58 2004
From: pellis.nospam at tampabay.rr.com (Patrick Ellis)
Date: Sat, 10 Apr 2004 03:50:58 GMT
Subject: Simple Class Question - need clarity please
References: <EYFdc.51749$Id.27192@news-binary.blueyonder.co.uk>
	<2tce701vv505395hcr6dqtvc8ot0fdmkrk@4ax.com>
	<c57d1q$1euk$1@news.wplus.net>
Message-ID: <CaKdc.4701$I83.74460@twister.tampabay.rr.com>

Stevie_mac wrote:
>
><snipped code for mywindow.py and test.py>
>
><snipped error message from running test.py>

I cut and pasted from your post into mywindow.py and test.py. When I ran
test.py I got a window with a cancel button, that went away when I clicked
the button. There were no error messages.




From max at alcyone.com  Sat Apr 17 00:12:07 2004
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2004 21:12:07 -0700
Subject: Difficulty Finding Python Developers
References: <65cbc3dd.0404140641.3501fde8@posting.google.com>
	<407D6269.3090909@engcorp.com> <40808FF1.7060204@cs.com>
Message-ID: <4080AE97.C4CF0755@alcyone.com>

"Robert M. Emmons" wrote:

> I agree with Peter.  I learned python in an afternoon.  I'm not saying
> I
> was highly productive after 4 hours, but I could program and start
> working immediately.  Any good programmer should be able to do this.

Note that doesn't mean it's a bad idea to hire a Python expert in order
to lead a team or make sure that everyone's learning Python properly.

-- 
 __ Erik Max Francis && max at alcyone.com && http://www.alcyone.com/max/
/  \ San Jose, CA, USA && 37 20 N 121 53 W && AIM erikmaxfrancis
\__/ Have you ever loved somebody / Who didn't know
    -- Zhane


From tjreedy at udel.edu  Sat Apr 17 04:13:35 2004
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Sat, 17 Apr 2004 04:13:35 -0400
Subject: AOP use cases
References: <84fc4588.0404140106.3fa0c55@posting.google.com>	<slrnc7q1ss.1aa.alf@largo.fayauffre.org>	<cb035744.0404141130.170f51c4@posting.google.com>	<slrnc7sgat.vp.alf@largo.fayauffre.org>	<cb035744.0404160442.2f0b1661@posting.google.com>	<0pydnSB4WYuieuLdRVn-hQ@powergate.ca><c5otn0$44o$1@news1.wdf.sap-ag.de>
	<4080C6F3.5020309@zope.com>
Message-ID: <c5qova$89k$1@sea.gmane.org>


"Shane Hathaway" <shane at zope.com> wrote in message
news:4080C6F3.5020309 at zope.com...
> This discussion makes me wonder if Zope has been dabbling in AOP
> concepts for years without knowing it.

I believe at least one person has posted about AOP in Zope.  Quite aware of
what doing ;-)

tjr






From viking_kiwi at yahoo.poofters.com  Sat Apr  3 17:57:02 2004
From: viking_kiwi at yahoo.poofters.com (Rod Stephenson)
Date: Sat, 03 Apr 2004 22:57:02 GMT
Subject: Embedding python with mingw compilers
Message-ID: <wk65cgy8bi.fsf@yahoo.poofters.com>

I'm successfully created python extensions on windows using the mingw
compiler (with swig), now I'm trying to embed python in a c-program. 

The simple example (included below) is from the manual. I compile it
with gcc 3.2.3:


gcc -o pytest -Ic:/python23/include -Lc:/python23/libs -lpython23 pytest.c

I then get error messages for the python calls, eg

C:\WINDOWS\TEMP/ccU2vhgb.o(.text+0x5b):pytest.c: 
undefined reference to `_imp__Py_Initialize'

I notice however that the .def file I used to create libpython23.a
does have references to _imp__Py_Initialize (as well as Py_Initialize)
and these also seem to be in the generated library file.

Any suggestions as to what else needs to be done to sort this out?



********************

#include <Python.h>
int
main(int argc, char *argv[])
{
  Py_Initialize();
  PyRun_SimpleString("from time import time,ctime\n"
                     "print 'Today is',ctime(time())\n");
  Py_Finalize();
  return 0;
}


 
-- 
Rule 1. 


From ptmcg at austin.rr._bogus_.com  Wed Apr 14 07:06:49 2004
From: ptmcg at austin.rr._bogus_.com (Paul McGuire)
Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2004 11:06:49 GMT
Subject: spherical coordinates
References: <20040414111334.34b5d225@pistache.sara.nl>
	<c5j28h$j3m$1@swifty.westend.com>
	<7x1xmqua94.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <dX8fc.587$lp3.280@fe2.texas.rr.com>

"Paul Rubin" <http://phr.cx at NOSPAM.invalid> wrote in message
news:7x1xmqua94.fsf at ruckus.brouhaha.com...
> Peter Maas <peter.maas at mplusr.de> writes:
> > r = sqrt(x**2 + y**2)
> > phi = atan(y/x)
>
> Better use phi=atan2(y,x) in case x=0.  Similarly for the other atan
calls.

These are formulas for cylindrical coordinates.  The OP was asking for
spherical coordinates rho, theta, and phi, where:

rho = distance from origin (similar to r in cylindrical coords)
theta = angle from the positive x axis of the xyz vector projection onto the
x-y plane (just like theta in cylindrical coords)
phi = angle of the xyz vector from the x-y plane

To convert from spherical to Cartesian:

    x = rho * sin(phi) * cos(theta)
    y = rho * sin(phi) * sin(theta)
    z = rho * cos(phi)

>From Cartesian to spherical:

    rho = sqrt(x**2 + y**2 + z**2)
    theta = atan2(y, x)
    if rho != 0.0:
        phi = acos( z / rho )
    else:
        phi = pi / 2 * sgn(z)

I can imagine that all these conversions could be a performance killer if
done entirely in Python, and could stand to be done as a C extension.  This
is probably why the OP was asking if such a package already exists.

-- Paul

(Hmm, the math module doesn't have a sgn() function.  Is this difficult to
add?)




From davidf at sjsoft.com  Thu Apr 22 01:44:11 2004
From: davidf at sjsoft.com (David Fraser)
Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2004 07:44:11 +0200
Subject: [wxPython] how to automatically resize a window?
In-Reply-To: <408659aa$1@maser.urz.unibas.ch>
References: <408659aa$1@maser.urz.unibas.ch>
Message-ID: <c67loa$f1o$2@ctb-nnrp2.saix.net>

Curzio Basso wrote:
> 
> Hi all,
> 
> I have a problem for which I wasn't able to find an answer anywhere 
> else, maybe someone can give me a hint...
> 
> I designed with XRCed a small GUI (the code is at the bottom of the 
> message) made up of a menu and a frame in which there are two panels, 
> placed by an horizontal sizer.
> 
> Now, what I would like to do is to be able to load an image and display 
> it on the left panel, automatically resizing the panel depending on the 
> image size (the code is at the end again). There are actually two problems:
> 
> 1) if I load an image the panel is not resized automatically
> 
> 2) if I resize the panel manually after having loaded the image, the DC 
> is not repainted. that is, the portion of the image which was invisible 
> is not painted
> 
> Is there anyone with a bit of time to explain me how to solve these 
> problems?
> 
> thanks, qrz

You probably want to go to the wxPython users mailing list for this (see 
the links on the wxpython home page)

David


From Mike at DeleteThis.Geary.com  Mon Apr 19 16:44:36 2004
From: Mike at DeleteThis.Geary.com (Michael Geary)
Date: Mon, 19 Apr 2004 13:44:36 -0700
Subject: outline-style sorting algorithm
References: <71650A6F73F1D411BE8000805F65E3CB3B3A4D@SRV-03>
	<mailman.776.1082399762.20120.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1088ehljpqq4195@corp.supernews.com>

Terry Reedy wrote:
> It it a well known problem that left-justified variable-length
> number representations in strings do not sort well when the
> strings are sorted in the standard manner.  Even without dots,
> directory listings will give you
>
> file1
> file10
> ...
> file19
> file2
> file20
> ...
> file29
> file3
> etc.

Interestingly enough, in Windows XP, Windows Explorer lists these files in
numerical order:

file1
file2
...
file9
file10
file11
...
file19
file20
file21
...
file29

The DIR command CMD.EXE still sorts alphabetically, but DIR in the 4NT
command shell from www.jpsoft.com displays the files in numerical order,
with a command line option to use alphabetical order instead.

It would be nice if more OS shells sorted filenames like this.

-Mike




From faizan at jaredweb.com  Sat Apr 24 00:43:04 2004
From: faizan at jaredweb.com (Fazer)
Date: 23 Apr 2004 21:43:04 -0700
Subject: Opening MS Word files via Python
References: <7b454334.0404201628.371b9e8@posting.google.com>
	<i7-dnZNwpJ8TfhjdRVn-jg@adelphia.com>
	<3d06fae9.0404210536.3f277a37@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <7b454334.0404232043.32e95cf1@posting.google.com>

jmdeschamps at cvm.qc.ca (jmdeschamps) wrote in message news:<3d06fae9.0404210536.3f277a37 at posting.google.com>...
> Rob Nikander <rnikaREMOVEnder at adelphia.net> wrote in message news:<i7-dnZNwpJ8TfhjdRVn-jg at adelphia.com>...
> > Fazer wrote:
> > > I am curious as to how I should approach this issue.  I would just
> > > want to parse simple text and maybe perhaps tables in the future. 
> > > Would I have to save the word file and open it in a text editor?  That
> > > would kind of....suck...  Has anyone else tackled this issue?
> > 
> > The win32 extensions for python allow you to get at the COM objects for 
> > applications like Word, and that would let you get the text and tables. 
> >   google: win32 python.
> > 
> > word = win32com.client.Dispatch('Word.Application')
> > word.Documents.Open('C:\\myfile.doc')
> > 
> > But I don't know the best way to find out the methods and properties of 
> > the "word" object.
> > 
> > Rob
> 
> You can use VBA documentation for Word, and using dot notation and
> normal Pythonesque way of calling functions, play with its diverses
> objects, methods and attributes...
> Here's some pretty straightforward code along these lines:
> #************************
> import win32com.client
> import tkFileDialog
> 
> # Launch Word
> MSWord = win32com.client.Dispatch("Word.Application")
> MSWord.Visible = 0 
> # Open a specific file
> myWordDoc = tkFileDialog.askopenfilename()
> MSWord.Documents.Open(myWordDoc)
> #Get the textual content
> docText = MSWord.Documents[0].Content
> # Get a list of tables
> listTables= MSWord.Documents[0].Tables
> #************************
> 
> Happy parsing,
> 
> Jean-Marc


That is Awesome!  Thanks!

How would I save something in word format? I am guessing
MSWord.Docments.Save(myWordDoc) or around those lines?  where can I
find more documentatin?  Thanks.


From jepler at unpythonic.net  Sun Apr 18 16:35:47 2004
From: jepler at unpythonic.net (Jeff Epler)
Date: Sun, 18 Apr 2004 15:35:47 -0500
Subject: using a USB HID device
In-Reply-To: <4082e29d.1177387563@news.xs4all.nl>
References: <40827ce3.1151345337@news.xs4all.nl>
	<c5ufh6$rok$02$1@news.t-online.com>
	<4082e29d.1177387563@news.xs4all.nl>
Message-ID: <20040418203547.GB3074@unpythonic.net>

libusb is portable to Linux, BSD including OS X, and Windows.
I don't know of a Python wrapper, however, and my experience using
libusb on windows is limited.

http://libusb.sf.net
http://libusb-win32.sf.net/

For my own application, I wrote my device's API in C and wrapped it
using Pyrex.

Jeff



From SeeBelow at SeeBelow.Nut  Fri Apr 16 14:21:49 2004
From: SeeBelow at SeeBelow.Nut (SeeBelow at SeeBelow.Nut)
Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2004 18:21:49 GMT
Subject: Python OS
References: <107j4eu6ffn2c68@corp.supernews.com>
	<7xy8p29wc4.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <4080245D.A29E494E@shaw.ca>

Paul Rubin wrote:
> 
> The idea is not completely insane, but you'd have to do a LOT of work,
> possibly including reimplementing the language.  You might look at
> some of the Lisp Machine publications for inspiration and an idea of
> what you'd be getting yourself into.

"not completely insane", but damn close to it!  (IMO, of course, but
it's an educated opinion.)

Mitchell Timin

-- 
"Many are stubborn in pursuit of the path they have chosen, few in
pursuit of the goal." - Friedrich Nietzsche

http://annevolve.sourceforge.net is what I'm into nowadays.
Humans may write to me at this address: zenguy at shaw dot ca


From joe at notcharles.ca  Mon Apr 12 16:47:04 2004
From: joe at notcharles.ca (Joe Mason)
Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2004 20:47:04 GMT
Subject: String + number split
References: <2SAec.70005$Id.6002@news-binary.blueyonder.co.uk>
	<mfydnfKTtqtWRufdRVn-uQ@powergate.ca>
	<c5epc8$1scu$1@news.wplus.net>
Message-ID: <slrnc7m01g.pf.joe@gate.notcharles.ca>

In article <c5epc8$1scu$1 at news.wplus.net>, Stevie_mac wrote:
> PS, the number on the end may vary  &  the _ could be any non alpha char!
> 
>  font12        becomes         ('font',12)
>  arial_14      becomes        ('arial',14)
>  arial__8      becomes        ('arial',8)
>  times 6      becomes        ('times',6)

>>> import re
>>> def fsplit(fs):
...     r = re.compile("""                            
...         ([A-Za-z]+) # group 1: 1 or more letters
...         [^0-9]*     # 0 or more non-digits; not a group because not in ()
...         ([0-9]+)    # group 2: 1 or more numbers
...         """, re.VERBOSE)
...     m = r.match(fs)
...     if m: return (m.group(1), m.group(2))
...     else: raise ValueError, "Badly formatted font string"
... 
>>> fsplit('font12')
('font', '12')
>>> fsplit('arial_14')
('arial', '14')
>>> fsplit('arial_8')
('arial', '8')
>>> fsplit('times 6')
('times', '6')

Joe


From nikolai.kirsebom.NOJUNK at siemens.no  Fri Apr 30 07:41:49 2004
From: nikolai.kirsebom.NOJUNK at siemens.no (Nikolai Kirsebom)
Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2004 13:41:49 +0200
Subject: Automated installation framework
References: <vgu3901i2q8nmqdhc6s9eph8bjl8cet159@4ax.com>
	<mailman.149.1083321388.25742.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <hbe490hkv9fbbs0tlssllbpmsd8f6odf5u@4ax.com>

On Fri, 30 Apr 2004 13:36:02 +0200, Thomas Heller <theller at python.net>
wrote:

>
>Is it this that you have in mind?
>
>Martin von L?wis, packing Python with Microsoft Installer:
>http://www.python.org/pycon/dc2004/papers/44/
>
>Thomas
>

Not really.  I'm looking for a system which can be used to install an
application in an environment.  As an example:

Machine #1:
Ensure Windows 2003 server SP3 installed.
Install SQL Server 2003
Add SQL Server Package X 
Install Server part of application A

Machine #2:
Ensure Windows 2000 with SP 2a installed
....
Install other part of application A

Machine #3:
Ensure Windows 2000 with SP 2a installed
Install IBM WebSphere
etc.

In principle, there is no Python involved except the managing of the
installation.  There should be no requirement that Python must be
installed on the target machines (if this is possible).  I do not
expect to have a system which will handle all the individual steps,
but a system which assists in the process would probably be of great
help.


Nikolai
 



From dwelch91 at comcast.net  Mon Apr  5 09:55:22 2004
From: dwelch91 at comcast.net (djw)
Date: Mon, 05 Apr 2004 13:55:22 GMT
Subject: python processes names
In-Reply-To: <f6554b84.0404050308.7980080@posting.google.com>
References: <f6554b84.0404050308.7980080@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <ezdcc.188803$_w.1870414@attbi_s53>

Sylwia wrote:
> Hi!
> 
> How to make python programs show up by name is ps (e.g ps -e). By
> default if  we have many different python processes running
> simultaneously, then we can only see python python python for three
> different python processes. I would much rather see
> first_python_program_name.py, second_python_program_name.py and
> third_python_program_name.py listed by ps. Is that possible without
> downloading and installing any non-standard modules?
> 
> Thank you in advance,
> 
> Best wishes,
> 
> Sylwia

You could use proctitle:

https://ftp.psychosis.com:4302/python/

-Don


From mwh at python.net  Tue Apr 20 08:42:44 2004
From: mwh at python.net (Michael Hudson)
Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 12:42:44 GMT
Subject: module not callable - why not?
References: <c56jph$rrk$05$1@news.t-online.com>
	<107dras2heahcb6@news.supernews.com>
	<mailman.491.1081538569.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<8ef9bea6.0404122025.36efc84e@posting.google.com>
	<c5tef0$5hf$1@news.service.uci.edu>
	<7xsmf1fxd9.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <m3ad16rfb0.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk>

Paul Rubin <http://phr.cx at NOSPAM.invalid> writes:

> And yet, you can call a class instance if it has a __call__
> operation defined.  I don't see why modules shouldn't be the same.

Well, for a possible counter argument, consider that you can only call
an instance of a new-style class if the CLASS defines the __call__
method...

Cheers,
mwh

-- 
  Premature optimization is the root of all evil.
       -- Donald E. Knuth, Structured Programming with goto Statements


From theller at python.net  Tue Apr 27 14:27:32 2004
From: theller at python.net (Thomas Heller)
Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2004 20:27:32 +0200
Subject: Problem with PY2EXE and VPython
References: <sXgjc.43843$_L6.2802892@attbi_s53>
Message-ID: <k701p97v.fsf@python.net>

Bruce, I could not reply to the private mail you sent me (some permanent
error at the mail server), so here it goes:

Bruce Peterson writes:

> Thomas
>    Thanks -- here are the files in the distribution directory created
>    by PY2EXE for tower of Hanoi demo.
> cvisual.dll
> datetime.pyd
> DDRAW.dll
> dirlist.txt
> GLU32.dll
> hanoi.exe
> library.zip
> multiarray.pyd
> OPENGL32.dll
> python23.dll
> umath.pyd
> w9xpopen.exe
> _numpy.pyd
> _sre.pyd
>

Bruce, you should at least remove these files from the dist dir, and
make sure in other ways that opengl and direct draw (is this directX, or
how it's called?)  is installed on the target system:

> DDRAW.dll
> GLU32.dll
> OPENGL32.dll

I'm not sure where cvisual.dll comes from.  (10 seconds later, after
googling around: ah, it's from VPython, so it must stay).

The other files are Python extensions.

Thomas




From dippyd at yahoo.com.au  Tue Apr  6 03:24:10 2004
From: dippyd at yahoo.com.au (Steve)
Date: Tue, 06 Apr 2004 17:24:10 +1000
Subject: slightly OT: BUT NEEDs to be said
References: <lvOdnRJzZ9244ezdRVn-uQ@powergate.ca>
	<8b42d1998c978c8c1cddf15c52a1c57b@dizum.com>
	<c4t9qn$2nb6vl$1@ID-169208.news.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <40725B1A.4080706@yahoo.com.au>

Greg Ewing wrote:
> 
> Aha! I've been trying to decide what to name the next language
> I invent, and now I know. It will be called:
> 
>    Buffy

Nice choice! But I think "buffy" would surely have to 
be some sort of command-line buffer tool, or better 
still, anti-buffer overflow security software. Buffy 
could save the world from security holes.

If you ask me, I think "xander" sounds more like a 
computer language, but "willow" would probably be more 
appropriate. And of course then when people write in to 
complain about how politically incorrect it is to name 
a programming language for a red-haired Jewish lesbian 
witch, we can deflect criticism by telling them it is 
named after the movie of the same name about the Little 
People.


-- 
Steven D'Aprano



From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Sat Apr 17 19:50:19 2004
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 17 Apr 2004 19:50:19 -0400
Subject: Getters and setters in python, common practise
References: <407e402c$1@newsflash.abo.fi> <407e6cf9@newsflash.abo.fi>
	<c5lssm$kov$1@arcturus.ciril.fr>
	<BbudnV_BesJW5OPdRVn-ig@powergate.ca>
Message-ID: <c5sfrr$b9l$1@panix1.panix.com>

In article <BbudnV_BesJW5OPdRVn-ig at powergate.ca>,
Peter Hansen  <peter at engcorp.com> wrote:
>Yermat wrote:
>> Petter Holmstr?m wrote:
>>>
>>> I have not found any documentation on this topic. Could you please 
>>> point me to some?
>> 
>> see "property" at http://www.python.org/doc/2.3.3/lib/built-in-funcs.html
>> 
>> You could also look at 
>> http://users.rcn.com/python/download/Descriptor.htm to understand how it 
>> does really work.
>
>Also helpful: http://www.python.org/2.2/descrintro.html#property

Even more helpful: http://www.python.org/doc/newstyle.html

(From "Documentation" | "New-style classes")
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

"I used to have a .sig but I found it impossible to please everyone..."  --SFJ


From fredrik at pythonware.com  Wed Apr 21 14:27:49 2004
From: fredrik at pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2004 20:27:49 +0200
Subject: Dollar sign ($) on foriegn keyboards? (prothon)
References: <c665ct$vkl$1@sea.gmane.org>
	<LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCKELIKGAB.tim.one@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <c66eed$po2$1@sea.gmane.org>

Tim Peters wrote:

> Prothon is trying some design decisions that are very hard to try in
> CPython now, and how they turn out is interesting to me.

design by self-selecting newsgroup subsets has been tried before, also
for CPython.  it a great way to waste lots of time and get really lousy
results (or no results at all, in CPython's case).

</F>






From fredrik at pythonware.com  Tue Apr 20 09:59:09 2004
From: fredrik at pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 15:59:09 +0200
Subject: outline-style sorting algorithm
References: <71650A6F73F1D411BE8000805F65E3CB3B3A4D@SRV-03><mailman.776.1082399762.20120.python-list@python.org><1088ehljpqq4195@corp.supernews.com><c62ms1$dh4$00$1@news.t-online.com>
	<1089sl7ebr47k2e@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <c63aan$50s$1@sea.gmane.org>

Michael Geary wrote:

> It seems like a simple enough algorithm: Split each filename into groups of
> numbers and non-numbers. When you do a sort comparison, take these character
> groups from left to right, comparing the non-numeric parts alphabetically
> and the numeric parts numerically.

import re

def split(name, findall=re.compile("(\d+)|(\D+)").findall):
    parts = []
    for d, s in findall(name):
        if d:
            s = int(d)
        parts.append(s)
    return parts

(preferrably combined with DSU, but if you don't have too many
files, you can use sort(lambda a, b: cmp(split(a), split(b))))

</F>






From sng2004x at netscape.net  Thu Apr 15 11:18:45 2004
From: sng2004x at netscape.net (Stephen Ng)
Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2004 23:18:45 +0800
Subject: Python 2.3 on RedHat 9
Message-ID: <407EA7D5.1040704@netscape.net>

Hi!

Has anyone installed Python 2.3 on RedHat 9? Did you install on top of 
Python 2.2 or did you install in a separate directory (eg the default)?

I'm trying to find out in advance if it's hassle free to install as I am 
planning to do it.

Thanks.

Stephen Ng




From jcarlson at uci.edu  Sun Apr  4 04:56:30 2004
From: jcarlson at uci.edu (Josiah Carlson)
Date: Sun, 04 Apr 2004 00:56:30 -0800
Subject: OT (was Re: But it still doesn't explain the joke)
In-Reply-To: <mailman.323.1081056558.20120.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.189.1080759511.20120.python-list@python.org><kmjsj1-89u.ln1@snout.lairds.org>	<c4glmq$j1i$1@swifty.westend.com><c4h6ad$lu0$1@panix1.panix.com><106o7vn56fgmt85@corp.supernews.com><XoWdnevUOvXsu_HdRVn-tA@powergate.ca><406F3C29.6030504@freedom.place>	<c4nrgo$a98$1@news.service.uci.edu>
	<mailman.323.1081056558.20120.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <c4oiq6$1hg$1@news.service.uci.edu>

> think it better that we, including you, maintain the political truce that
> currently prevails on this newsgroup, which is a unique forum for
> discussion Python, and leave such political discussions to more appropriate
> fora.

Sure, sounds good.  For someone who is advocating political truce, you 
sure loaded your post.  Practice what you preach my friend.

  - Josiah


From ny_r_marquez at yahoo.com  Fri Apr 16 14:54:20 2004
From: ny_r_marquez at yahoo.com (R.Marquez)
Date: 16 Apr 2004 11:54:20 -0700
Subject: Convert from PDF to raster format image
Message-ID: <8a27e309.0404161054.2a5c5ecc@posting.google.com>

Does any one know of a way to convert PDF documents into a raster
format, such as TIFF or JPEG?  Of course to do it in Python would be
my preference, but if you know of another way to do this
programatically I would also be interested.  Thanks.

-Ruben


From harry.g.george at boeing.com  Tue Apr 20 12:16:15 2004
From: harry.g.george at boeing.com (Harry George)
Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 16:16:15 GMT
Subject: Tutorial
References: <c634jv$mp9$1@hermes.p4.net>
Message-ID: <xqxfzayiq0g.fsf@cola2.ca.boeing.com>

"S?ren Kunst" <soeren_kunst at hotmail.NOSPAM.com> writes:

> hello, i need a good tutorial for Python, nothing for beginners
> 
> wfw S?ren
> 
> 

For non-beginners, I find "Python Essential Reference" by David
Beaszley to be a good tutorial.  In under 100 pages, you learn the
control structures, data types, builtin functions, and many of the
idioms.

This is appropriate for people who are comfortable with several
languages, and understand scripting from, e.g., perl experience.  If
you already know when and why you might use an exception handler or do
a qualified import or need to redirect stdin, then this book could be
for you.

-- 
harry.g.george at boeing.com
6-6M21 BCA CompArch Design Engineering
Phone: (425) 342-0007


From mwilson at the-wire.com  Thu Apr  1 14:33:24 2004
From: mwilson at the-wire.com (Mel Wilson)
Date: Thu, 01 Apr 2004 14:33:24 -0500
Subject: Why '==' ??
References: <mailman.124.1080662765.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<8089854e.0403302319.1ab56af0@posting.google.com>
	<c4e0d2$o4u$1@arcturus.ciril.fr>
	<8089854e.0403312324.7de8710c@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <E6GbAls/KTmB089yn@the-wire.com>

In article <8089854e.0403312324.7de8710c at posting.google.com>,
michael at foord.net (Fuzzyman) wrote:
>Having said that I *Still* think that :
>
>if a = 3:
>is unambiguous - so there's no real reason that the interpreter should
>wag it's finger and say ... "you forgot to put in one of the '=' and I
>refuse to continue until you do" :-)

It causes trouble in the larger language..

    if a == 0:
        some_thing()

works, and

    c = a == 0
    if c:
        some_thing()

works the same
but

    c = a = 0
    if c:
        some_thing()

has the opposite effect to your proposed

    if a = 0:           # (not real python syntax)
        some_thing()



        Regards.        Mel.


From dmq at gain.com  Wed Apr 28 10:15:32 2004
From: dmq at gain.com (David MacQuigg)
Date: Wed, 28 Apr 2004 07:15:32 -0700
Subject: What is good about Prothon?
References: <bniq80hiib0gauiltuntk9jvia2getbnj4@4ax.com>
	<mailman.31.1083031283.25742.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <r0fv80tk5al3cq0br7kvtthaspf191gf16@4ax.com>

Mike, 

Thanks for a very thorough and thoughtful review of this
proposal.  Please see my responses in the thread "Ideas for Python 3".

-- Dave


From leens_chacko at hotmail.com  Fri Apr 16 10:42:04 2004
From: leens_chacko at hotmail.com (Leeny)
Date: 16 Apr 2004 07:42:04 -0700
Subject: Python - matlab interface help!! Urgent
References: <ca305c70.0403311357.3d436b2b@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <ca305c70.0404160642.37583028@posting.google.com>

leens_chacko at hotmail.com (Leeny) wrote in message news:<ca305c70.0403311357.3d436b2b at posting.google.com>...
> Hi Group,
> 
> Hope someone can help me with this problem. I am a new user to python
> and am currently working with pymat module of python (for coursework).
> 

> I tried to create plots thru pymat using pymat.eval(h, 'plot(x,y)')
> This is working fine. However, i dont know how to print or save this
> plot as a .tif image something like
> 
> print(gcf, '-dtiff', 'test')
> 
> using pymat.
One suggestion I got was to use mathplotlib, but since i have done
some work uisng pymat, I would like to know if there is some way it
can be done using Pymat.
> 
> Please help me!!!!
> 
> Thanks 
> Leeny


From martin at v.loewis.de  Wed Apr 28 14:28:57 2004
From: martin at v.loewis.de (=?UTF-8?B?Ik1hcnRpbiB2LiBMw7Z3aXMi?=)
Date: Wed, 28 Apr 2004 20:28:57 +0200
Subject: locale.CODESET / different in python shell and scripts
In-Reply-To: <m3smeowdj2.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk>
References: <pan.2004.04.26.23.23.56.718739@phreaker.net>
	<c6mfs1$99j$01$1@news.t-online.com>
	<m3smeowdj2.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <408FF7E9.90001@v.loewis.de>

Michael Hudson wrote:
>>It is uncertain why this happens - setlocale is not normally
>>called automatically; not even in interactive mode. Perhaps
>>you have created your own startup file?
> 
> 
> readline calls setlocale() iirc.

Sure. However, we restore the locale to what it was before
readline initialization messes with the locale.

Regards,
Martin



From stewart at midwinter.ca  Fri Apr 16 09:20:01 2004
From: stewart at midwinter.ca (Stewart Midwinter)
Date: 16 Apr 2004 06:20:01 -0700
Subject: Python GUI wrapper for a long operation
References: <de21d442.0404142156.2b9f7ef0@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <9396ba6f.0404160520.364699c4@posting.google.com>

good stuff!

I'll study your app for some clues for my own situation. I want to
continually get data from a remote server, and then graph values that
I have received, probably using Tkinter canvas widget.  Understanding
threads will be helpful for me, so I'll study how you used threads in
your app.

You may want to post your idea on the tkinter mailing list, 
thanks,
Stewart in Calgary.


From eldiener at earthlink.net  Sat Apr  3 22:23:20 2004
From: eldiener at earthlink.net (Edward Diener)
Date: Sun, 04 Apr 2004 03:23:20 GMT
Subject: Typing \n in strings
References: <RGKbc.11130$yN6.10939@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net>
	<406f79ca$1_1@themost.net>
Message-ID: <IcLbc.11151$yN6.4920@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net>

Paul Watson wrote:
> "Edward Diener" <eldiener at earthlink.net> wrote in message
> news:RGKbc.11130$yN6.10939 at newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net...
>> Python 2.3.3 on Win2K. In the Python tutorial it says that typing \n
>> in string literals is the new-line character. I open the interpreter
>> and type a string with a \n in it but instead of outputting a string
>> with a new line, it outputs the \n as literal characters of the
>> string. Is the tutorial wrong, is the interpreter broken, or what is
>> happening ?
>>
>
> What exactly are you entering and what is output?
>
> Python 2.3.3 (#51, Dec 18 2003, 20:22:39) [MSC v.1200 32 bit (Intel)]
> on win32
> Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>>> "now\nis\nthe\ntime"
> 'now\nis\nthe\ntime'
>>>> print "now\nis\nthe\ntime"
> now
> is
> the
> time

Right you are and my faux pas. I didn't notice the print statement in the
tutorial.




From michael at foord.net  Wed Apr 14 11:25:26 2004
From: michael at foord.net (Fuzzyman)
Date: 14 Apr 2004 08:25:26 -0700
Subject: 3D Graphics Engine
References: <8089854e.0404130639.3eb0db62@posting.google.com>
	<7eecf173.0404140017.6d7b06a4@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <8089854e.0404140725.2434222d@posting.google.com>

google at evpopov.com (popov) wrote in message news:<7eecf173.0404140017.6d7b06a4 at posting.google.com>...
> > Can anyone reccomend a 3d engine for me to 'muck around with'.
> 
> You can have a look to Ogre: www.ogre3d.org.
> Python bindings may not be up to date, but they should be at the first
> official release (which should now happen in a not so far future).

On a brief inspection (bad, busy day) I couldn't see *either* python
binaries *or* prebuilt binaries at the site you pointed to.

On the other hand it looks interesting and so bears further
investigation.

Regards,


Fuzzy

http://www.voidspace.org.uk/atlantibots/pythonutils.html


From jack at performancedrivers.com  Fri Apr 23 14:34:51 2004
From: jack at performancedrivers.com (Jack Diederich)
Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2004 14:34:51 -0400
Subject: Why we will use obj$func() often
In-Reply-To: <MMcic.28546$dZ1.18087@fed1read04>
References: <d2Uhc.22272$dZ1.1600@fed1read04> <84Uhc.22278$dZ1.5087@fed1read04>
	<mailman.927.1082665370.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<8AWhc.23114$dZ1.11070@fed1read04> <40883BFE.B381518A@alcyone.com>
	<27_hc.23801$dZ1.2716@fed1read04> <40887145.789A2FE8@alcyone.com>
	<WqWdnfW7RpSmhRTdRVn-uw@speakeasy.net>
	<MMcic.28546$dZ1.18087@fed1read04>
Message-ID: <20040423183451.GC25755@performancedrivers.com>

On Fri, Apr 23, 2004 at 10:55:55AM -0700, Mark Hahn wrote:
> I think everyone here is operating under fear, uncertainty, and doubt.  Most
> of the reports on the Prothon mailing list of people who have actually
> picked up Prothon and played with it have been happy.  People look at the
> surface and are prejudiced, just like looking at people with different skin
> color.

Oh please, don't conflate irrational prejudice (racism) with rational 
prejudice (it looks perl-ish, and I don't like the way perl looks, therefore
I don't like the way Prothon looks).  Your accusation isn't up to the level 
of that fellow spewing Totalitarian rhetoric about the "mental sickness" of
people who wrote/use python, but it isn't far off.

-jack




From jsbenson at bensonsystems.com  Sat Apr  3 17:03:16 2004
From: jsbenson at bensonsystems.com (John Benson)
Date: Sat, 3 Apr 2004 14:03:16 -0800
Subject: browsing nuisance and a suggestion
Message-ID: <014601c419c7$793db510$3709500a@jsbwxp3>

Hi, I find myself plowing through much more collateral Pythonia trying to
keep up with my favorite topics appearing on the list, given the recent
explosion in activity. I'd like to suggest that the following boilerplate be
moved from before the topics to after the topics:

(begin quote)

Send Python-list mailing list submissions to
python-list at python.org

To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
python-list-request at python.org

You can reach the person managing the list at
python-list-owner at python.org

When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
than "Re: Contents of Python-list digest..."

(end quote)

The (admittedly slight) nuisance I experience is having to scroll down to
see the last few topics because the boilerplate crowds them off the first
screenful. By moving the boilerplate after the topics, I can easily see in
one glance whether I want to further examine the items below or just delete
the email and go on to the next.





From jerry at jerrysievers.com  Fri Apr 16 21:35:54 2004
From: jerry at jerrysievers.com (Jerry Sievers)
Date: 16 Apr 2004 21:35:54 -0400
Subject: global variables extended to other objects/modules
References: <mailman.716.1082155671.20120.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <m3vfjzmlms.fsf@prod01.jerrysievers.com>

KN <vald at dead.art.pl> writes:

> Hello, I'm new to this list, and I have an important
> question at the beginning.
> 
> There is a matter that concerns me - it's the globales
> implementation. I've read nearly everything I found 
> about this and about problems people were having with
> using it.

Another poster made several good and I would say "correct"
suggestions.

Here's another for you to consider.  At the risk of making your code
unreadable and possibly buggy;

Just "stick those pesky globals right down where you need em!

Suppose you have a module named A which imports B and B imports C...

>From A, it is possible to say B.C.var = something

This works but is a nasty hack that should be saved only for extreme
emergencies!

Peace



-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Jerry Sievers   305 854-3001 (home)     WWW ECommerce Consultant
                305 321-1144 (mobile	http://www.JerrySievers.com/


From jack at performancedrivers.com  Thu Apr 29 15:36:21 2004
From: jack at performancedrivers.com (Jack Diederich)
Date: Thu, 29 Apr 2004 15:36:21 -0400
Subject: static keyword
In-Reply-To: <f8097096.0404291109.5cdaa37b@posting.google.com>
References: <f8097096.0404290607.78aa9ce3@posting.google.com>
	<LeydnWxdT6atjgzdRVn-sA@powergate.ca>
	<f8097096.0404291109.5cdaa37b@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <20040429193621.GB21368@performancedrivers.com>

On Thu, Apr 29, 2004 at 12:09:03PM -0700, Nick Jacobson wrote:
> > 
> > Why do you call using OO ("wrapping it in a class", as you say)
> > a "hack"?  Generally speaking, using objects to contain state
> > information such as this is exactly what most people would call
> > the cleanest, best approach.
> > 
> > class HasState:
> >      def __init__(self):
> >          self.firstCall = True
> >          self.i = [10, 11]
> > 
> >      def foo(self):
> >          if self.firstCall:
> >              print "First pass"
> >              self.firstCall = False
> >          self.i[0] += 1
> >          print self.i[0]
> > 
> > obj = HasState()
> > obj.foo()
> > obj.foo()
> > 
> > Now, without arguing that it has 11 lines instead of 8 to do the
> > same thing (because then I'd just point out that this was a contrived
> > example anyway, and that it is more easily extended, and more obvious
> > what was going on, etc. :-) ), can you describe why you call this is
> > a "hack"?
> > 
> > -Peter
> 
> I don't know if "hack" is the right word.  What I meant is it seems
> like overkill to have to make (and name) a class, plus add a second
> function, every time you want a function to have a static variable.

Keeping state in functions is usually a "hack."  Class instances have
state, functions just do stuff.  That said you can get by just fine 
using default arguments for small amounts of state in functions.

def foo(i=[]):
  if (not i): # only true once
    print "First!"
    i.extend([10, 11])
  i[0] += 1
  print i[0]

But you really really don't want state in plain functions (as opposed
to member functions of objects).  I would consider any function that
does something different when called twice with the same arguments broken.
Unless the name of the function starts with 'random' *wink*.

-jackdied




From michael at foord.net  Thu Apr  8 03:56:59 2004
From: michael at foord.net (Fuzzyman)
Date: 8 Apr 2004 00:56:59 -0700
Subject: CGI Problems With Xitami
Message-ID: <8089854e.0404072356.7f33f440@posting.google.com>

OK, so this is n't strictly a Python problem *maybe*

I'm writing a Customer Contact database for our intranet at work. I'm
testing it using Xitami as a localhost server on my Windoze box.

All of a sudden the 'POST' method has stopped working - when I specify
'POST' as the method in forms... the CGI gets no data... and I really
don't want to use 'GET' as it makes the password visible in the URL...

I've looked in the CGI options of the Xitami config and I can't find
anything amiss, or even especially relevant. The Xitami docs say
'POST' should work fine (of course they don't mention python).

Anyone any suggestions or experience.
(Yes I've checked the form construction in the hTML templates - it's
fine. The values don't even make it to Fieldstorage...)

Regards,


Fuzzy

http://www.voidspace.org.uk/atlantibots/pythonutils.html


From __peter__ at web.de  Thu Apr  1 11:46:09 2004
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Thu, 01 Apr 2004 18:46:09 +0200
Subject: splitting one dictionary into two
References: <20040401153103.GC4577@jsaul.de>
Message-ID: <c4hh0i$uol$03$1@news.t-online.com>

jsaul wrote:

> I have to split a dict into two dicts. Depending on their values,
> the items shall remain in the original dict or be moved to another
> one and at the same time be removed from the original dict.
> 
> OK, this is how I do it right now:
> 
>     dict1 = { "a":1, "b":3, "c":5, "d":4, "e":2 }
>     dict2 = {}
>     klist = []
> 
>     for key in dict1:
>         if dict1[key] > 3: # some criterion
>             dict2[key] = dict1[key]
>             klist.append(key)
> 
>     for key in klist:
>         del dict1[key]
> 
>     print dict1
>     print dict2
> 
> That means that I store the keys of the items to be removed from
> the original dict in a list (klist) and subsequently remove the
> items using these keys.
> 
> Is there an "even more pythonic" way?

Only a minor change to do away with the temporary list:

    for key in dict1:
        if dict1[key] > 3: # some criterion
            dict2[key] = dict1[key]

    for key in dict2:
        del dict1[key]

Peter



From greg at cosc.canterbury.ac.nz  Thu Apr 29 00:47:51 2004
From: greg at cosc.canterbury.ac.nz (Greg Ewing)
Date: Thu, 29 Apr 2004 16:47:51 +1200
Subject: Don't understand wxPython ids
In-Reply-To: <1a34m1-fml.ln1@home.rogerbinns.com>
References: <408ed938$0$17263$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
	<BOEjc.12559$eZ5.4366@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>
	<1a34m1-fml.ln1@home.rogerbinns.com>
Message-ID: <c6q1dp$et6ah$1@ID-169208.news.uni-berlin.de>

Roger Binns wrote:
> Here is how I use the same id in multiple locations.  I can have a
> menu entry, a toolbar button, and a button inside some HTML all
> invoke the same function.  The only coupling between them is
> the id number.

Giving an identifier to a command so that it can be
invoked in multiple ways is a good idea, but it would
be much more Pythonic if a *name* could be used as the
identifier rather than a number.

Use of a number here seems to be entirely the result
of blindly carrying over a feature of the C++-oriented
API into Python.

-- 
Greg Ewing, Computer Science Dept,
University of Canterbury,	
Christchurch, New Zealand
http://www.cosc.canterbury.ac.nz/~greg



From jdhunter at ace.bsd.uchicago.edu  Thu Apr  8 12:28:17 2004
From: jdhunter at ace.bsd.uchicago.edu (John Hunter)
Date: Thu, 08 Apr 2004 11:28:17 -0500
Subject: problems with compiling and loading C++ extension
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0404081151590.8108@Chrestomanci> (Faheem Mitha's
	message of "Thu, 8 Apr 2004 11:52:31 -0400 (EDT)")
References: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0404081151590.8108@Chrestomanci>
Message-ID: <m23c7e304e.fsf@mother.paradise.lost>

>>>>> "Faheem" == Faheem Mitha <faheem at email.unc.edu> writes:

    Faheem> Dear People,

    Faheem> I have been having an odd problem with compiling and
    Faheem> loading a simple C++ extension to python (as a .so file in
    Faheem> Linux). Unfortunately, I'll need to include my files in
    Faheem> here so I apologize in advance for the length of this
    Faheem> message.


Try adding 'stdc++' to your module libraries.

Another possibility is that the blitz library was compiled with a
different version of g++ than you are using to compile your
extension.  You could try recompiling blitz with the same g++.

Hope this helps,
John Hunter 



From deetsNOSPAM at web.de  Wed Apr  7 11:10:03 2004
From: deetsNOSPAM at web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Wed, 07 Apr 2004 17:10:03 +0200
Subject: Dynamic creation of an object instance of a class by name
References: <10f99b0f.0404070656.5960e2c8@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <c515uc$2obrct$1@ID-111250.news.uni-berlin.de>

cn = 'A'
inst = eval('%s()' % cn)

-- 
Regards,

Diez B. Roggisch


From lists at simplistix.co.uk  Sat Apr  3 12:28:29 2004
From: lists at simplistix.co.uk (Chris Withers)
Date: Sat, 03 Apr 2004 18:28:29 +0100
Subject: ZMySQLDA/MySQLdb: DON'T fix like this for Zope 2.7.0!
In-Reply-To: <20040403171804.GA32655@calvados>
References: <406E9DE4.2000604@simplistix.co.uk>	<406EDE94.9000701@simplistix.co.uk>	<406EEE33.9050901@simplistix.co.uk>
	<20040403171804.GA32655@calvados>
Message-ID: <406EF43D.5040309@simplistix.co.uk>

Michal Kurowski wrote:

> transactional = self.db.server_capabilities & CLIENT.TRANSACTIONS
> 
> to:
> 
> transactional =  CLIENT.TRANSACTIONS 

This is NOT a good fix. All you're doing is ignoring the server's capabilities, 
so if the server supports transactions and the client doesn't, or vice versa, 
you end up in a mess.

I have a patch which I'm testing and will post soon.

> db.py file from ZmySQLDA is requirement for python 2.3.3 based 
> zope to work.

I think the idea is that you're supposed to use mysql-python 0.9.3b2 with Python 
2.3, but there's no Windows binary for that.

> Can anyone explain to me why "_mysql" (instead of "MySQLdb") is used
> here in the first place ?
> 
> Andy Dustman recommends against it for years now.

Well, ZMySQLDA is Andy's code, so perhaps he could comment? ;-)

Chris

-- 
Simplistix - Content Management, Zope & Python Consulting
            - http://www.simplistix.co.uk




From jcarlson at uci.edu  Sat Apr  3 17:03:46 2004
From: jcarlson at uci.edu (Josiah Carlson)
Date: Sat, 03 Apr 2004 14:03:46 -0800
Subject: Capturing stdout incrementally
In-Reply-To: <dHFbc.17935$656.789@newssvr27.news.prodigy.com>
References: <dHFbc.17935$656.789@newssvr27.news.prodigy.com>
Message-ID: <c4nci9$pp3$1@news.service.uci.edu>

> I am on Windows by the way, so the utilities are printing to the windows
> command shell.

By default, popen in Windows buffers everything coming from the called 
app.  I believe you can use various Windows system calls in pywin32 in 
order to get line buffered output, but I've never done it, so have 
little additional advice other than "check out pywin32".

  - Josiah


From seberino at spawar.navy.mil  Thu Apr 22 18:34:04 2004
From: seberino at spawar.navy.mil (Christian Seberino)
Date: 22 Apr 2004 15:34:04 -0700
Subject: Easiest way to *add a column* to a 2d matrix/array in
	numarray???
References: <bf23f78f.0404200803.4b065887@posting.google.com>
	<c66jij$nps$1@nntp6.u.washington.edu>
Message-ID: <bf23f78f.0404221434.5c1397be@posting.google.com>

Thanks for the reply.  I appreciate all the help I can get.  Your suggestion
of using resize is excellent for adding *rows* but does not seem
right for *columns*.  Here is an example:

>>> a
array([[ 0,  1,  2,  3,  4,  5],
           [ 6,  7,  8,  9, 10, 11],
           [12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17]])

>>> a.resize((4,6))
>>> a
array([[ 0,  1,  2,  3,  4,  5],
          [ 6,  7,  8,  9, 10, 11],
          [12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17],
          [ 0,  1,  2,  3,  4,  5]])

>>> a.resize((4,7))
>>> a
array([[ 0,  1,  2,  3,  4,  5,  6],
          [ 7,  8,  9, 10, 11, 12, 13],
          [14, 15, 16, 17,  0,  1,  2],
          [ 3,  4,  5,  0,  1,  2,  3]])

Do you see how adding an extra row left old rows intact but
adding an extra column messes up old columns? (i.e.
data in (1,1) position is not the same after adding a column)

Chris


"Russell E. Owen" <no at spam.invalid> wrote in message news:<c66jij$nps$1 at nntp6.u.washington.edu>...
> In article <bf23f78f.0404200803.4b065887 at posting.google.com>,
>  seberino at spawar.navy.mil (Christian Seberino) wrote:
> 
> >How add a column to a 2d array/matrix in numarray???
> >
> >The unelegant way I found was to:
> >
> >1. Create a new array with an extra column (e.g. using 'zeros' function).
> >2. Copy original array into new array.
> >3. Copy new column into last column.
> >
> >Is there a slicker way to do this?
> 
> Try numarray.resize
> 
> -- Russell


From alan.gauld at btinternet.com  Thu Apr 22 18:52:57 2004
From: alan.gauld at btinternet.com (Alan Gauld)
Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2004 23:52:57 +0100
Subject: equivalent to Tcl 'after' command?
References: <huThc.54272$9V6.15414@newssvr25.news.prodigy.com>
Message-ID: <ivig80hf5m119o1jl9d769vloocusc8imp@4ax.com>

On Thu, 22 Apr 2004 17:42:37 GMT, Mark Harrison <mh at pixar.com>
wrote:
> I'm writing some event-driven programs, and I would like
> to do the equivalent of the Tcl 'after' command, e.g.:
> 
> 	after 1000 {puts "one second has elapsed"}
> 
> 1.  What's the most canonical way of doing this?

I suspect its to start a thread that in turn starts with 
a sleep command. Not very pretty but approximately the same.

> 2.  What's the best reference that talks about non-gui event loop
>     programming in Python?

My book(paperversion only discusses them briefly but its hardly a
rference, more an intro to the convcept for beginners...

Its not quite the same as a pure event loop environment but you
could check out the cmd module for a text based command loop/menu
system. If you haven't already....

HTH,

Alan G.
Author of the Learn to Program website
http://www.freenetpages.co.uk/hp/alan.gauld


From thorsten at thorstenkampe.de  Wed Apr 28 20:27:33 2004
From: thorsten at thorstenkampe.de (Thorsten Kampe)
Date: Thu, 29 Apr 2004 02:27:33 +0200
Subject: outline-style sorting algorithm
References: <mailman.755.1082380154.20120.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <dou0u3vrkvds.dlg@thorstenkampe.de>

* jwsacksteder at ramprecision.com (2004-04-19 15:08 +0100)
> I have a need to sort a list of elements that represent sections of a
> document in dot-separated notation. The built in sort does the wrong thing.
> This seems a rather complex problem and I was hoping someone smarter than me
> had already worked out the best way to approach this. For example, consider
> the following list-
> 
>>>> foo
> ['1.0', '1.0.1', '1.1.1', '1.2', '1.9', '1.10', '1.11', '1.20', '1.20.1',
> '1.30']
>>>> foo.sort()
>>>> foo
> ['1.0', '1.0.1', '1.1.1', '1.10', '1.11', '1.2', '1.20', '1.20.1', '1.30',
> '1.9']
> 
> Obviously 1.20.1 should be after 1.9 if we look at this as dot-delimited
> integers, not as decimal numbers.

You need some general approach to avoid the DSU thing:

def funcsort(seq, func):
    """ sort seq by func(item) """
    seq = seq[:]
    seq.sort(lambda x, y: cmp(func(x), func(y)))
    return seq

funcsort(foo, lambda x: map(int, x.split('.')))


Thorsten


From pinard at iro.umontreal.ca  Thu Apr 15 22:54:03 2004
From: pinard at iro.umontreal.ca (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Fran=E7ois?= Pinard)
Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2004 22:54:03 -0400
Subject: CamelCase versus wide_names (Prothon)
In-Reply-To: <N_Efc.9389$dZ1.7955@fed1read04>
References: <UHxfc.9323$dZ1.3740@fed1read04>
	<mailman.666.1082064823.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<N_Efc.9389$dZ1.7955@fed1read04>
Message-ID: <20040416025403.GA29314@alcyon.progiciels-bpi.ca>

[Mark Hahn]

> P.S.  Has anyone noticed that I have finally taught myself how to not
> top-post?

Even more, to quote parsimoniously.  Congratulations! :-)

-- 
Fran?ois Pinard   http://www.iro.umontreal.ca/~pinard



From mogmios at mlug.missouri.edu  Sat Apr 24 10:35:33 2004
From: mogmios at mlug.missouri.edu (Michael)
Date: Sat, 24 Apr 2004 07:35:33 -0700
Subject: command-line args
In-Reply-To: <pqidndy4pqJB_hfdRVn-gQ@powergate.ca>
References: <mailman.1.1082805753.27400.python-list@python.org>
	<pqidndy4pqJB_hfdRVn-gQ@powergate.ca>
Message-ID: <408A7B35.7040702@mlug.missouri.edu>


> Create an empty module called "globals" and import that wherever
> needed.  Populate it with settings from the command-line parsing
> stage.  Get fancier and put defaults in there to begin with, and
> override them only if specified in the command-line parsing
> area.  Flavour as needed...

What do you do about multiple processes (of the same program) running at 
once? Save to /tmp/<pid>/globals.py or something like that?

> (That's just one option, but in many ways the simplest.  Some of
> us also use a simple "bag" type of object which we pass around
> as required, but that's more awkward with really large applications.)

I've done that before and yeh it is really a hassle with anything very 
large.



From asdf at asdf.com  Tue Apr 27 15:05:41 2004
From: asdf at asdf.com (asdf sdf)
Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2004 19:05:41 GMT
Subject: Python Documentation Blows!
In-Reply-To: <m2isgbvrm0.fsf@catbert.dok.org>
References: <mailman.135.1080674367.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<20040330181802.04141.00000304@mb-m17.aol.com>
	<mailman.150.1080693147.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<c4eq0e$2g6ov4$1@ID-217427.news.uni-berlin.de>
	<de6dnW6CZuRCa_fdRVn-jg@powergate.ca>
	<m2isgbvrm0.fsf@catbert.dok.org>
Message-ID: <9ayjc.56946$Lg7.7637@newssvr25.news.prodigy.com>

Chris Green wrote:

> Peter Hansen <peter at engcorp.com> writes:
> 
> 
>>anton muhin wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Maybe just start a wiki based on the current documentation? It
>>>shouldn't be too difficult, should it?
>>
>>What part of http://wiki.wxpython.org/ is not adequate?
> 
> 
> One problem wxpython's wiki seems to have is not enough time to
> refactor it (coupled with the namespace changing from wxEVENT =>
> wx.EVENT ) and lots of nodes being empty or partially duplicated.
> 

i'm trying out wxpython right now and trying to locate all the resources 
i can.  wxpython is cool but, to be fair, the documentation is not there 
for the junior programmer type.

i tried the 'obstacle course' tutorial, which looked promising, but most 
of it is just a table of contents waiting to be filled in.

right now, newbies have a special problem because wxpython is in the 
middle of a 'break the world' upgrade.  and some of the changes in the 
upgrade are being debated by the developers and might be changed again 
or rolled back.

so the newbie is at risk of running across samples that may be the old 
style and not realize it.

python documentation is great.

wxpython doc is at an early stage of development.

right now, wxpython offers the smoothest intro to someone who's 
comfortable using usenet for research (everyone here, but not everyone 
by any means), not dependent on rich IDEs, already familiar with python 
and python OOP, and is comfortable mentally mapping the documentation 
for the underlying C++ libraries into their wxPython counterparts.

Junior Programmer Joe out there in VB Land is not ready for wxpython.

OOT, the wxpython community and the mailing lists are an astonishing 
responsive and helpful group.  By far the most help group per capita, 
I've ever run across.  If you give wxpython a chance, the wxpython 
community will go more than the extra mile to help you out.










From LimorH at Spediant.com  Mon Apr 19 06:49:06 2004
From: LimorH at Spediant.com (Limor Hevroni)
Date: Mon, 19 Apr 2004 12:49:06 +0200
Subject: python 
Message-ID: <B3F2D0908E186F418439062E92622A570D1458@ormail1.orckit.com>


Hi , 
I consider using python as the programming language for an alpha testing
project.
I wonder whether any of you are using python in such a way, what is the best
development environment for python, is anyone used python for massive
project s with QA tendency ? is anyone used python with TestDirector ?
 
I would love to get answers on taht since I am running out if time,
development should start very soon.
The programming language I am considering is python and java, I would love
to get more info fro m people who use python in a working projects.
10x.
limor hevrony
Spediant Systems Ltd.
 


  _____  

 
<http://promos.hotbar.com/promos/promodll.dll?RunPromo&El=hotbar%5felement%3
bst%3b&SG=&RAND=70373&partner=hotbar> Upgrade Your Email - Click here! 

 


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From joe at notcharles.ca  Tue Apr 20 17:08:34 2004
From: joe at notcharles.ca (Joe Mason)
Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 21:08:34 GMT
Subject: Dollar sign ($) on foriegn keyboards? (prothon)
References: <mk3hc.13895$dZ1.10823@fed1read04>
	<c62m70$2hu$06$1@news.t-online.com>
	<slrnc89q11.pnv.joe@gate.notcharles.ca>
	<c631kk$9j9$04$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <slrnc8b493.rg4.joe@gate.notcharles.ca>

In article <c631kk$9j9$04$1 at news.t-online.com>, Peter Otten wrote:
>>> Apart from that obj$func() hurts my eye more than obj->func() and
>>> obj!func(). As always, Python shines here with its obj.func() :-)
>> 
>> I believe the suggestion is "$.func()" instead of "self.func()" (the
>> Python way) or just ".func()" (the earlier Prothon way).  Or possibly
>> the suggestion is for "$func()", although I like $.func() much better.
> 
> I skimmed too lightly over the first paragraph and missed that - but still
> there is the obj$func() example in Mark's post, and with my Python mindset
> (I didn't follow the Prothon discussion closely) I cannot figure out what
> that is supposed to mean.

Oops - I skimmed even more lightly than you did, cause I missed the
obj$func example entirely.

Joe


From google0 at lazytwinacres.net  Wed Apr 28 16:44:06 2004
From: google0 at lazytwinacres.net (Dan  Dang  Griffith)
Date: 28 Apr 2004 13:44:06 -0700
Subject: Proposed API change for pyparsing CaselessLiteral - could break
	existing code
References: <geDic.22772$hR1.20302@fe2.texas.rr.com>
Message-ID: <87274528.0404281244.3fde885f@posting.google.com>

"Paul McGuire" <ptmcg at austin.rr._bogus_.com> wrote in message news:<geDic.22772$hR1.20302 at fe2.texas.rr.com>...
> So for those of you who are still reading, and who use pyparsing, and have
> CaselessLiterals in your code, and test on the returned text, what choice
> would you prefer:
> 
> 1. Keep the current behavior, and just change the docs.
> 2. Fix the current behavior to match the docs, and fix up any code that uses
> it.
> 
> My personal preference is #2.  We are still early in pyparsing's code life -
> it has only been generally available for about 4 months - and I think it
> really is the preferred way to go.

I'm +1 on #2, i.e., change the code to match the docs.
I have a use case where the parser is acting as a "cleanup"
to the input, making it conform to a coding standard,
and CaselessLiteral working as described in the docs
would be perfect.  I suppose I could make a setParseAction
that would convert it to the appropriate case, but that
would slow it down, plus I'd have to keep track of the 
literal in two places (well, I suppose I could define 
a name for the value and import it from my grammar and
from the code that has the parse actions, but still...).

Thanks for pyparsing.
    --dang


From jbperez808 at yahoo.com  Thu Apr  1 18:08:30 2004
From: jbperez808 at yahoo.com (Jon Perez)
Date: Fri, 02 Apr 2004 07:08:30 +0800
Subject: Python passes the Turing test with a one-liner !
In-Reply-To: <406C7C1B.3080401@users.ch>
References: <406C7C1B.3080401@users.ch>
Message-ID: <c4i71i$2j3kuv$1@ID-180326.news.uni-berlin.de>

Morris Carr? wrote:

> 
> filter(lambda W : W not in 'ILLITERATE','BULLSHIT')
> 

The list comprehension version:

[p for p in 'BULLSHITTER' if p not in 'ILLITERATE']


From mickel at csc.fi  Thu Apr 15 01:57:43 2004
From: mickel at csc.fi (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Mickel_Gr=F6nroos?=)
Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2004 08:57:43 +0300 (EEST)
Subject: saving a tkinter canvas to gif
In-Reply-To: <b82e5469.0404141027.2ba8896d@posting.google.com>
References: <b82e5469.0404141027.2ba8896d@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0404150856340.12373@sampo.csc.fi>

On Wed, 14 Apr 2004, biner wrote:

>   Is there any way to save a canvas created with tkinter to a gif (or
> any other graphic) without using PIL (I cannot build it on our unix
> machine)?

Have you tried the postscript method of Tkinter.Canvas?

> base=Canvas(root,width=50,height=50)
> base.create_rectangle(0,0,50,25,fill='red')
> base.create_rectangle(0,25,50,50,fill='blue')
> base.pack()

base.postscript("file.ps")

/Mickel

--
Mickel Gr?nroos, application specialist, linguistics, Research support, CSC
PL 405 (Tekniikantie 15 a D), 02101 Espoo, Finland, phone +358-9-4572237
CSC is the Finnish IT center for science, www.csc.fi



From jepler at unpythonic.net  Sun Apr  4 14:04:03 2004
From: jepler at unpythonic.net (Jeff Epler)
Date: Sun, 4 Apr 2004 13:04:03 -0500
Subject: Working with a list in a more "pythonic" way
In-Reply-To: <20040404160940.GC3455@unpythonic.net>
References: <20040404124833458+0200@news.rhrz.uni-bonn.de>
	<20040404160940.GC3455@unpythonic.net>
Message-ID: <20040404180401.GD3455@unpythonic.net>

[second try, python.org refused the message when the header contained
non-ascii characters.  As an aside, does anyone know how to configure
mutt to quote non-ascii characters in headers?]

First, you might want to map the letters to numbers all at once:
    phrase = [ord(x) - 65 for x in phrase]
then you could use an iterator to give the pairs:
    def pairs(seq):
        seq = iter(seq)
        a = seq.next()
        for j in seq:
            yield a, j
            a = j
Example usage:
    >>> list(pairs(range(5)))
    [(0, 1), (1, 2), (2, 3), (3, 4)]

So now you can write
    n = 0
    for first, second in pairs(phrase):
        n += soundScore[first][second]
taking care of IndexError as above.  You could also make soundScore a
dictionary, which I think was discussed elsewhere.
    n = 0
    for p in pairs(phrase):
        n += soundScore.get(p, 0)
or
    n = sum([soundScore.get(p, 0) for p in pairs(phrase)])

Jeff



From newsgroups at jhrothjr.com  Mon Apr 26 13:56:45 2004
From: newsgroups at jhrothjr.com (John Roth)
Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2004 13:56:45 -0400
Subject: how to add new print %b format to python?
References: <slrnc8q9qp.htc.rs@frank.overlook.homelinux.net>
	<408D4480.8090104@draigBrady.com>
Message-ID: <108qjbm70ason04@news.supernews.com>


<P at draigBrady.com> wrote in message news:408D4480.8090104 at draigBrady.com...
> Rusty Shackleford wrote:
> > I have a Summer in front of me without any school, and I'd like to add a
> > new format for python print strings that will show any number in a
> > binary representation.  For example:
> >
> >
> >>>>'%b' % 3
> >
> > 11
> >
> >>>>'%b' % 5
> >
> > 101
> >
> > You get the idea.  I've written functions that return strings, so that
> > part is done, but where do I go to tinker with the python interpreter to
> > add this new format?
> >
> > Please don't argue with me about whether this is an advisable goal in
> > itself -- I'm using it as a method to learn about the internals of the
> > python language.
>
> I don't think this will be accepted as the
> format args are really a lowest common denominator
> across all systems. For e.g. on linux you can use
> the ' modifier to print numbers in locale format
> (and example for mine is 1,234).

I don't believe this is the case. I think the % operator
does not use the C library's sprintf function., but I could
be wrong.

[snip]

The rest of this is equally off base - he explicitly said he
was not interested in ***whether*** he should do it, but
only in *** where to look *** to find out how to do it
as a summer programming exercise in the python core.

John Roth
>
> P?draig.




From lbates at swamisoft.com  Thu Apr 22 10:24:57 2004
From: lbates at swamisoft.com (Larry Bates)
Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2004 09:24:57 -0500
Subject: Newbie to client/server
References: <p6Qhc.39822$on5.30998@newssvr29.news.prodigy.com>
Message-ID: <-KedncVZStMqSBrdRVn-jg@comcast.com>

Use SQL "joins" to create a single "logical" record from
as many different tables as you want resulting in a single
result record that contains all the fields on your form.
If there is a one-many relationship between tables, you
will loop over all the result records.

That way you only need a single cursor.

FYI,
Larry Bates
Syscon, Inc.

"John Fabiani" <jfabiani at yolo.com> wrote in message
news:p6Qhc.39822$on5.30998 at newssvr29.news.prodigy.com...
> I don't understand how to get data from multi tables for my forms/windows.
> I have been reading how to connect and get data (using a SQL statement)
> from MySQL.  I think I understand.
> Now the question if I have a form (i.e. AR invoice) that requires data
from
> more than one table (or I need multi SQL statements) where do I put it.
It
> appears that I can have only one cursor.  This must be wrong. I can
> understand that I can reuse the connect object but the returning
> information ends up into the same cursor.  I don't want code (just how to
> do it right) but when I do something like the following it does not work:
> Con=myconnection_string
> Cursor=con.cursor()
> Cursor.execute(somestatement)
> newCursor=con.cursor()
> newCursor.execute(somestatement)  #does not work
> John
> -- 
> John Fabiani




From tjreedy at udel.edu  Thu Apr  1 11:34:16 2004
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Thu, 1 Apr 2004 11:34:16 -0500
Subject: splitting one dictionary into two
References: <20040401153103.GC4577@jsaul.de>
Message-ID: <c4hga0$asj$1@sea.gmane.org>


"jsaul" <use_reply-to at empty.invalid> wrote in message
news:20040401153103.GC4577 at jsaul.de...
> Hello all,
>
> I have to split a dict into two dicts. Depending on their values,
> the items shall remain in the original dict or be moved to another
> one and at the same time be removed from the original dict.
>
> OK, this is how I do it right now:
>
>     dict1 = { "a":1, "b":3, "c":5, "d":4, "e":2 }
>     dict2 = {}
>     klist = []
>
>     for key in dict1:
>         if dict1[key] > 3: # some criterion
>             dict2[key] = dict1[key]
>             klist.append(key)
>
>     for key in klist:
>         del dict1[key]
>
>     print dict1
>     print dict2
>
> That means that I store the keys of the items to be removed from
> the original dict in a list (klist) and subsequently remove the
> items using these keys.
>
> Is there an "even more pythonic" way?

Delete klist stuff and do deletion with

for key in dict2: del dict1[key]

tjr






From skip at pobox.com  Wed Apr 28 12:36:29 2004
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Wed, 28 Apr 2004 11:36:29 -0500
Subject: PyChecker does STATIC analysis?
In-Reply-To: <3064b51d.0404280728.5fb7539e@posting.google.com>
References: <3064b51d.0404280728.5fb7539e@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <16527.56717.323963.457874@montanaro.dyndns.org>


    beliavsky> If I run PyChecker on the following program, stored in xtry.py, 

    beliavsky> m = 10000000
    beliavsky> k = 0
    beliavsky> for i in xrange(m):
    beliavsky>     k = k + i
    beliavsky> print k
    beliavsky> x = range(3)
    beliavsky> print x[3]

    beliavsky> the output is

    beliavsky> 49999995000000

    beliavsky> Warnings...

    beliavsky> xtry:1: NOT PROCESSED UNABLE TO IMPORT
    ...

    beliavsky> I am surprised that PyChecker actually needs to execute the
    beliavsky> code block

    beliavsky> for i in xrange(m):
    beliavsky>     k = k + i
    beliavsky> print k

    beliavsky> before finding the out-of-bounds error. 

Try modifying your code to this:

    if __name__ == "__main__":
        m = 10000000
        k = 0
        for i in xrange(m):
            k = k + i
        print k
        x = range(3)
        print x[3]

PyChecker simply imports your module.  Importing a module causes the code at
the top level to be executed.

    beliavsky> The Lahey/Fujitsu Fortran 95 compiler is able to catch the
    beliavsky> out-of-bounds error at COMPILE time for an analogous Fortran
    beliavsky> program.

Python is just slightly more dynamic than Fortran, and I'm sure the
Lahey/Fujitsu compiler has had a few more man-years of development put into
it than PyChecker.  As an example of the former point, note that PyChecker
can't assume that the output of range(3) is a list of 3 elements.  Another
module may have modified builtins before the code was executed.

Skip




From peter.maas at mplusr.de  Tue Apr 27 04:27:32 2004
From: peter.maas at mplusr.de (Peter Maas)
Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2004 10:27:32 +0200
Subject: Is Perl *that* good? (was: How's ruby compare to it older bro
In-Reply-To: <lNadndrvs_FarRDdRVn-vA@powergate.ca>
References: <mailman.18.1082989111.25742.python-list@python.org>
	<lNadndrvs_FarRDdRVn-vA@powergate.ca>
Message-ID: <c6l5ja$o9$1@swifty.westend.com>

Peter Hansen wrote:
> I guess it would be interesting to pose the question back to
> them "If you could not use regexes in Perl, would you still
> like to program in it?" or "If you couldn't use mysql in PHP
> would you still use it?"
> 
> What similar question, if any, would be a difficult one for
> us Python types?

If you could not use block indentation in Python, would you
still like to program in it? :-)

Mit freundlichen Gruessen,

Peter Maas

-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Peter Maas, M+R Infosysteme, D-52070 Aachen, Hubert-Wienen-Str. 24
Tel +49-241-93878-0 Fax +49-241-93878-20 eMail peter.maas at mplusr.de
-------------------------------------------------------------------


From peter at engcorp.com  Mon Apr 26 12:01:07 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2004 12:01:07 -0400
Subject: AOP use cases
In-Reply-To: <ywrbrle211o.fsf@ioka.flux.utah.edu>
References: <84fc4588.0404140106.3fa0c55@posting.google.com>
	<slrnc7q1ss.1aa.alf@largo.fayauffre.org>
	<cb035744.0404141130.170f51c4@posting.google.com>
	<slrnc7sgat.vp.alf@largo.fayauffre.org>
	<cb035744.0404160442.2f0b1661@posting.google.com>
	<0pydnSB4WYuieuLdRVn-hQ@powergate.ca> <uekqdjn7k.fsf@broadpark.no>
	<TYqdnZRX9Og5OBfdRVn-sA@powergate.ca>
	<ywrbrle211o.fsf@ioka.flux.utah.edu>
Message-ID: <7NudnQB0EdLerxDdRVn_iw@powergate.ca>

Eric Eide wrote:

> Perhaps you would be interested in IBM's recent paper, which was presented at
> the AOSD 2004 conference:
> 
> 	Adrian Colyer and Andrew Clement.  ``Large-Scale AOSD for Middleware.''
> 	In Proceedings of the 3rd International Conference on Aspect-Oriented
> 	Software Development, Lancaster, UK, March 2004, pages 56--65.
> 	<http://doi.acm.org/10.1145/976270.976279>

Thanks, but """Full-Text is a controlled feature.
   To access this feature:
     * Please login with your ACM Web Account.
     * Please review the requirements below.
"""

And it appears memberships must be purchased.

> Now you might discount this as primarily being "a project just to demonstrate
> AOP," but I think that that would be unfair.  

Perhaps, but I'll reserve judgment until I see significant signs of it
being used outside of such projects nevertheless.

-Peter


From snail at objmedia.demon.co.uk  Thu Apr  1 13:41:49 2004
From: snail at objmedia.demon.co.uk (Stephen Kellett)
Date: Thu, 1 Apr 2004 19:41:49 +0100
Subject: [OT] WARNING! - Dangerous new e-mail virus!
References: <vaZac.1712$ts4.1563@bignews3.bellsouth.net>
Message-ID: <COx6WgMtJGbAFwjD@objmedia.demon.co.uk>

In message <vaZac.1712$ts4.1563 at bignews3.bellsouth.net>, Robert Oschler 
<no_replies at fake_email_address.invalid> writes
>"A deadly new computer virus that is spreading rapidly by e-mail has already
>caused massive damage to thousands of unprotected computers worldwide.  The
>virus is rumored to be the deadly brainchild of renegade microbiology
>scientists, who have figured out how to cross the barrier from the digital
>world to the analog, and create a real biological virus on the victim's
>computer.  For an actual photo of a ravaged computer, and further details on
>this frightening new virus, visit http://www.robotsrule.com/ ".

Oh, look it is April 1st.
-- 
Stephen Kellett
Object Media Limited    http://www.objmedia.demon.co.uk
RSI Information:        http://www.objmedia.demon.co.uk/rsi.html


From newsgroups at jhrothjr.com  Fri Apr  9 14:42:15 2004
From: newsgroups at jhrothjr.com (John Roth)
Date: Fri, 9 Apr 2004 14:42:15 -0400
Subject: module not callable - why not?
References: <c56jph$rrk$05$1@news.t-online.com> <VKAdc.360$rC3.22993@attbi_s53>
Message-ID: <107drne5pm4sfd7@news.supernews.com>


"djw" <dwelch91 at comcast.net> wrote in message
news:VKAdc.360$rC3.22993 at attbi_s53...
> Diez B. Roggisch wrote:
> > Hi,
> >
> > I just thought about creating a module for quaternions (as an personal
> > exercise, so I'm not after pointers to classlibs here).
> >
> > Now usually I'd create a file called "quaternion.py", define my
quaternion
> > class in there and then import and create an instance like this:
> >
> > import quaternion
> >
> > q = quaternion.quaternion()
> >
> > Thats a lot to type. doing a
> >
> > from quaternion import quaternion
> >
> > would solve that - but AFAIK thats considered bad for some reasons.
>
> I think what people consider dangerous is 'from <module> import *'. The
> form you give here is OK, as far as I know.
>
> >
> > Now I thought about defining a __call__ operator at module level to
allow
> > this:
> >
> > import quaternion
> >
> > q = quaternion()
> >
> >
> > where the call looks like this:
> >
> > def __call__(*a, *kw):
> >     return quaternion()
> >
> > But that doesn't work.
> >
> > Now my question is: Is there a way to make a module callable that way?
And
> > wouldn't it make sense to allow the implementation of a call operator on
> > module level?
>
> I know this has been discussed before (using __main__() instead). Try
> googling for some discussions.

The discussion on __main__() isn't quite the same thing. If I remember
correctly, the use case for __main__ was to get rid of the two line suffix
to a script to make it executable. This is rather obscure to novices, while
__main__() would be a bit more understandable. At least, it's similar
to what other languages do for a startup function. There was no intention
that __main__() be called on an import, or that it be accessable via the
normal call syntax on the module object. At least, I don't remember such.

John Roth
>
> -Don
>




From michele.simionato at poste.it  Thu Apr 29 09:17:45 2004
From: michele.simionato at poste.it (Michele Simionato)
Date: 29 Apr 2004 06:17:45 -0700
Subject: Generic constructors and duplication of internal Python logic
References: <87ekqq41ya.fsf@pobox.com>
	<8dad5312.0404280217.21c2cfd1@posting.google.com>
	<95aa1afa.0404280619.778bd323@posting.google.com>
	<8dad5312.0404282313.8eb76b0@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <95aa1afa.0404290517.20cac261@posting.google.com>

sdementen at hotmail.com (Sebastien de Menten) wrote in message news:<8dad5312.0404282313.8eb76b0 at posting.google.com>...
> 2) I don't get the point about the .pyc

inspect.getsource look at the .py file; in some situations (i.e. trying to
obfuscate code) you may want to ship the .pyc file only; so inspect.getsource
cannot work (unless you decompile the .pyc file and restore .py).

For instance try

$ cat example.py
import inspect,sys

print inspect.getsource(sys.modules["__main__" ])

run it and  then remove example.py.

Also, the approach breaks down if the code is executed dynamically;
for instance C-c C-c in emacs would not work.


   Michele Simionato


From james at ractive.ch  Mon Apr 12 16:03:28 2004
From: james at ractive.ch (Jean-Pierre Bergamin)
Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2004 22:03:28 +0200
Subject: How to kill a SocketServer?
References: <c5e6k3$jf4$1@newshispeed.ch> <c5ed3b$drg$06$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <c5esmh$h8$1@newshispeed.ch>

Diez B. Roggisch wrote:

>> The problem is, that I found no way to interrupt the blocking call to
>> self.rfile.readline(). Is there a way to do that?
>
> From the SocketServerDocs:
>
> ---------------
> serve_forever()
>
>  Handle an infinite number of requests. This simply calls
> handle_request() inside an infinite loop.
>
> ---------------
>
> So simply call handle_request yourself, like this:
>
> while self.run_me:
>   s.server_forever()

I'm already having such a construct. The problem is the following:
The server waits for a connection and it calls in
SocketServer.TCPServer.handle_request() the function self.socket.accept().
This call blocks until a connections is made.

I have no chance to interrupt this call. I also tried:

def stop_server:
    self.socket.shutdown(2)
    self.socket.close()
    self.run_me = False

The accept() call still won't get interrupted. :-(

Other ideas?


James

-- 
http://www.p800.info




From jnfoster at cis.upenn.edu  Tue Apr 27 14:55:48 2004
From: jnfoster at cis.upenn.edu (Nate Foster)
Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2004 14:55:48 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Announcement: 2004 ICFP Programming Contest
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.58.0404271455190.21123@red.seas.upenn.edu>


We are pleased to announce

             The Seventh Annual

           ICFP PROGRAMMING CONTEST

             4 June - 7 June 2004

            http://icfpcontest.org/

Convinced your favorite programming language provides unbeatable
productivity?  Convinced you and your friends are world-class
programmers?

If so, we're providing you the opportunity to prove it!  We are
pleased to announce the Seventh ICFP Programming Contest to be held in
conjunction with the 2004 International Conference on Functional
Programming (ICFP 2004).  All programmers are invited to enter the
contest, either individually or in teams; we especially encourage
students to enter.  You may use any programming language (or
combination of languages) to show your skill.

On Friday, 4 June 2004 at 12:00 Noon (EDT), we will publish a
challenge task on the Web site and by e-mail to the contest mailing
list.  Teams will have 72 hours until Monday, 7 June 2004, 12:00 Noon
(EDT) to implement a program to perform this task and submit it to the
contest judges.  We have designed the contest for direct, head-to-head
comparison of language technology and programming skill.  We have a
range of prizes including cash awards and, of course, unlimited
bragging rights for the winners.

For more information about the contest, prizes, and registration,
point your browser to the contest website:

      http://icfpcontest.org

For more information about previous contests, see:

      http://icfpcontest.org/history.php

-- Contest Team




From rogerb at rogerbinns.com  Wed Apr 28 15:43:28 2004
From: rogerb at rogerbinns.com (Roger Binns)
Date: Wed, 28 Apr 2004 12:43:28 -0700
Subject: Path ... where is my application's home dir?
References: <mailman.76.1083159752.25742.python-list@python.org><408fbc0a$0$17256$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
	<mailman.80.1083163424.25742.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <s2e5m1-gpp.ln1@home.rogerbinns.com>

Marco Aschwanden wrote:
> - I want to store the current state of the application when leaving the
> application in an ini-file.
> - It is a "single-user" pc!

Note that since Windows 95, you can have multiple users, but only
one at a time could be logged in.  With XP you can actually have
multiple logged in at the same time (Press Windows Key + L)

> - I don't like (others would say hate) to use the registry.

Your users are going to be used to the registry being used.
But it is your app with your rules :-)

> - I prefer having ini-files in the application directory.

Many people install the apps as administrator and then run
as a ordinary user.  They won't be able to write to that
directory.  (Note this is a VERY common configuration
in a corporate environment).

> > > sys.argv[0] does not work for my purposes... do you have any
> > > other ideas.

This works on Windows, Linux and Mac, even when the application
has been frozen using py2exe, cx_Freeze and BundleBuilder respectively:

p=sys.path[0]
if p.lower().endswith(".zip"): # py2exe zip importer in action
    p=os.path.dirname(p)
appdirectory=os.path.abspath(p)

> And yes, the best place to store this information would be in the user's
> home dir, but then: Where is it? How to find it under Windows - every
> version of windows changes the place for home dirs. It would be nice to
> have something like this in a system/version independet way:

If the system is Windows 2000 or XP then os.path.expanduser("~") will
give their home directory.  (That also works on UNIX and Mac).

If you want to do things properly on Windows, you should use the
registry, or use this code to find the right folder.  You need
win32all installed.

from win32com.shell import shell, shellcon
path=shell.SHGetFolderPath(0, shellcon.CSIDL_PERSONAL, None, 0)


The list of CSIDL constants is at MSDN:

 http://tinyurl.com/7hei

Roger




From claird at lairds.com  Sun Apr  4 17:22:12 2004
From: claird at lairds.com (Cameron Laird)
Date: Sun, 04 Apr 2004 21:22:12 -0000
Subject: Extending Python Syntax with @
References: <105jorolc069r50@news.supernews.com>
	<m2u10mgeu3.fsf@unique.phony.fqdn>
Message-ID: <1070v44sjn9mmba@corp.supernews.com>

In article <m2u10mgeu3.fsf at unique.phony.fqdn>,
Heather Coppersmith  <me at privacy.net> wrote:
			.
			.
			.
>The typical SmallTalk or Lisp environment might come close, but
>their footprints are larger than Sasquatch's.  Also, those
			.
			.
			.
Squeak <URL: http://www.squeak.org/ > might interest
you as a lightweight Smalltalk.
-- 

Cameron Laird <claird at phaseit.net>
Business:  http://www.Phaseit.net


From mhuening at zedat.fu-berlin.de  Wed Apr  7 14:54:32 2004
From: mhuening at zedat.fu-berlin.de (Matthias Huening)
Date: 7 Apr 2004 18:54:32 GMT
Subject: Tkinter MultiListbox
Message-ID: <Xns94C4D4B44E0Bmhueningzedatfuberli@130.133.1.4>

Hello,

I have used Bob Haucks MultiListbox.py (http://www.haucks.org/) in my 
(hobby-)projects. Now I am looking for an enhanced version, which 
overcomes the limitations of MultiListbox:

#   Limitations:
#     o Only single selection.
#     o No horizontal scrolling or column resizing.
#     o Vertical scrollbar is always present.
#     o Doesn't sort when column labels are clicked.

Does somebody know of a MultiListbox with column resizing and sorting?

Thanks,
Matthias


From opengeometry at yahoo.ca  Sun Apr 11 15:16:03 2004
From: opengeometry at yahoo.ca (William Park)
Date: 11 Apr 2004 19:16:03 GMT
Subject: Python OS
References: <107j4eu6ffn2c68@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <c5c5hi$2sm7$1@ID-99293.news.uni-berlin.de>

A Evans <ae> wrote:
> I have a question concerning the development of Python Based Operating
> System. You see I have had sort of a dream to develop an Open Source
> Operating System that would revolutionize the OS market and Since I
> started using Python I have fallen in love with the language. Reading
> articles here and there I have read that Python is a more secure
> language than C. I also read another article (I can't remember which)
> saying Python would not be able to develop an OS. I don't believe its
> true however. I am by no means a programmer at this stage. But as I
> learn more and more I see Python as the Holy Grail of programming
> languages
> 
> My questions would then be, is Python capable of creating an OS from
> scratch and if so would it be plausible if possible

This would be interesting thesis material.  As someone else quoted,
    "In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice.
    But, in practice, there is."

-- 
William Park, Open Geometry Consulting, <opengeometry at yahoo.ca>
Linux solution/training/migration, Thin-client


From dmq at gain.com  Fri Apr 23 20:17:22 2004
From: dmq at gain.com (David MacQuigg)
Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2004 17:17:22 -0700
Subject: Why we will use obj$func() often
References: <d2Uhc.22272$dZ1.1600@fed1read04> <84Uhc.22278$dZ1.5087@fed1read04>
	<mailman.927.1082665370.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<8AWhc.23114$dZ1.11070@fed1read04> <40883BFE.B381518A@alcyone.com>
	<27_hc.23801$dZ1.2716@fed1read04> <40887145.789A2FE8@alcyone.com>
	<7cki80hj976bia36lhf9er97v073o1pqvm@4ax.com>
	<w8dic.28710$dZ1.11206@fed1read04> <ulXiAls/KH1K089yn@the-wire.com>
	<lkfic.29767$dZ1.17301@fed1read04>
Message-ID: <27cj80pq3lh4reaeois9snd2cbbiifv2qt@4ax.com>

On Fri, 23 Apr 2004 13:50:24 -0700, "Mark Hahn" <mark at prothon.org>
wrote:
>"Mel Wilson" <mwilson at the-wire.com> wrote in message
>news:ulXiAls/KH1K089yn at the-wire.com...
>
>> It can, if you spell '&' differently:
>>
>> def getfunc():
>>     def count (n=[0]):
>>         n[0] += 1
>>         print n[0]
>>     return count
>>
>> c = getfunc()
>> c()
>> c()
>> c()
>
>True.  A bit inelegant, but then so is &.
>
>Would you trade the "mutable integer" and "count(n=[0])" kludges for a
>solution like &count ?  Does anyone agree with me that a "closure variable
>prefix" is more explicit and readable?
>
>Let's seperate the aesthetic issues of using "Perl-like" symbols from the
>"closure variable prefix" functionality for a moment.  I'd like feedback on
>both issues, but try to keep them seperate.

We need to see what the problem is before we can judge a solution.
Just showing a code snippet and saying "do this" is not a good
statement of the problem.  As you have seen, there are simple elegant
solutions that don't follow your code line-for-line, and there are
inelegant solutions that are very close.  Both categories seem to
solve what we think the problem is, but you may have another problem
in mind.  A use-case would be helpful.

As an alternative, we could work with a clear statement of the
problem, something like:  The proposed syntax will allow assigning
values to (not just referencing) variables in a scope surrounding a
nested function.  This will be useful when the existing alternatives
are not appropriate:
1) Attach the variable to an instance.
2) Make the variable global.
3) Add the variable to the function argument list.
4) ...

I've probably mistated it, but you see what I'm getting at, something
that de-couples the user-level problem from the particular mechanisms
of the language.  Trying to reproduce these mechanisms in Python will
be the road to Per ... dition. :>)

-- Dave



From dmq at gain.com  Thu Apr 29 15:35:55 2004
From: dmq at gain.com (David MacQuigg)
Date: Thu, 29 Apr 2004 12:35:55 -0700
Subject: Is classless worth consideration
References: <g9k090lhocd1nbd7g230br6ooub113hjt6@4ax.com>
	<40905CF7.4A2625A4@alcyone.com>
Message-ID: <j3m290pqccqlbil1eo5mqcv9pmk81njst5@4ax.com>

On Wed, 28 Apr 2004 18:40:07 -0700, Erik Max Francis <max at alcyone.com>
wrote:

>David MacQuigg wrote:
>
>> The problem we Python programmers are having is understanding the
>> fundamental advantage of eliminating classes and working only with
>> instances.  The theoretical discussions put me to sleep.  I can't see
>> the point of the examples above.  What we need is a simple use case.
>
>I certainly don't see the point in having a prototype-based system if
>the declaration for defining a prototype (`proto' in your examples)
>looks very much like the way you build a class.  All that seems to
>accomplish is a semantic change of "class" to "proto," which doesn't
>gain anything.
>
>Compare that to, say, Io -- a prototype-based system -- where there is
>no syntax at all for defining a "class" or "prototype."  You simply
>clone and attach messages as you go.

I'm not familiar with Io.  The syntax I am proposing will allow
cloning instances and attaching attributes as you go.  What do
"messages" provide that are lacking in normal attributes?

-- Dave



From roy at panix.com  Sat Apr 10 22:43:28 2004
From: roy at panix.com (Roy Smith)
Date: Sat, 10 Apr 2004 22:43:28 -0400
Subject: Python is the best and most popular general purpose scripting
	language; the universal scripting language
References: <a5415304.0404101350.271088f2@posting.google.com>
	<roy-22B4DA.18282210042004@reader1.panix.com>
	<c59u4k$ki9$1@atlantis.news.tpi.pl>
	<a5415304.0404101836.48909210@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <roy-9D1CEF.22432810042004@reader1.panix.com>

rstephens at vectron.com (Ron Stephens) wrote:
> [...]
> Python is the best general purpose scripting language.
> [...]
> Python is the most general purpose of the scripting languages
> [...]
> Python is the best and most popular general purpose scripting language.
> [...]
> Python is the best general purpose scripting language.

Come on Ron, tell us how you really feel :-)


From torsten.marek at student.uni-tuebingen.de  Thu Apr 15 05:16:31 2004
From: torsten.marek at student.uni-tuebingen.de (Torsten Marek)
Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2004 11:16:31 +0200
Subject: Threading question
Message-ID: <c5ljtf$qlt$1@newsserv.zdv.uni-tuebingen.de>

Hello to all,

I have a simple question about threads in Python. I am starting  a 
number of threads in my program and I want print out the amount of time 
needed after all threads stopped. Do I need to explictly join the 
threads, set a condition or is it possible to somehow work with 
try/finally like that:

try:
	for i in range(0, num_threads):
		s = MyThread()
		s.start()
finally:
	print "all threads finished"


Thanks in advance

Torsten


From peter at engcorp.com  Sun Apr 25 13:31:45 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Sun, 25 Apr 2004 13:31:45 -0400
Subject: Andreas' practical language comparison
In-Reply-To: <c6glig$phm$07$4@news.t-online.com>
References: <c6glig$phm$07$4@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <408BF601.30004@engcorp.com>

Andreas Koch wrote:

> i started a little "practical language comparison" - practical
> in the sense that i compare how actual distributions and versions
> and their libraries (not abstract language specifications) solve small
> test cases like the 8 queens problem.
> 
> http://www.kochandreas.com/home/language/lang.htm
> 
> and mail me your code snippets (or critics) or post them here.

The Java implementation of Bubble Sort doesn't follow the
specification for the algorithm.  It fails to use a "swapped"
flag to determine when to terminate the loop.

-Peter


From me at privacy.net  Sun Apr  4 07:43:28 2004
From: me at privacy.net (Duncan Booth)
Date: 4 Apr 2004 11:43:28 GMT
Subject: Python is faster than C
References: <406F0907.96F37EA1@tunes.org>
	<slrnc6ud7b.4u7.joe@gate.notcharles.ca>
Message-ID: <Xns94C17FDACF515duncanrcpcouk@127.0.0.1>

Joe Mason <joe at notcharles.ca> wrote in 
news:slrnc6ud7b.4u7.joe at gate.notcharles.ca:

> In article <406F0907.96F37EA1 at tunes.org>, Armin Rigo wrote:
>> The reason that Psyco manages to outperform the C implementation is not
>> that gcc is a bad compiler (it is about 10 times better than Psyco's).
>> The reason is that the C implementation must use a generic '<' operator
>> to compare elements, while the Psyco version quickly figures out that it
>> can expect to find ints in the list; it still has to check this
>> assumption, but this is cheap and then the comparison is done with a
>> single machine instruction.
> 
> Why can't the C implementation do the same thing?
> 
It easily could, however sorting a list of ints sounds to me like a 
comparatively unusual thing to do in any real application. Sorting strings, 
or sorting more complex data structures are much more usual. In other words 
it would be kind of pointless to introduce an optimisation that only helps 
speedup benchmarks.

Also the builtin sort handles other cases which are important. Not all data 
you want to sort is randomly ordered. The builtin sort method should 
outperform quicksort in those cases where the input is already largely 
sorted. The builtin sort is also stable, although for a list of random 
integers you might be hard pushed to tell :-)


From herrn at gmx.net  Tue Apr  6 18:38:24 2004
From: herrn at gmx.net (Marco Herrn)
Date: 6 Apr 2004 22:38:24 GMT
Subject: regex help for a newbie
References: <c4rkh6$2kr4f5$2@ID-165840.news.uni-berlin.de>
	<yibn05p4oi3.fsf@coxeter.math.toronto.edu>
	<c4v3jk$2nn12a$1@ID-165840.news.uni-berlin.de>
	<yibd66k94x7.fsf@coxeter.math.toronto.edu>
Message-ID: <c4vbh0$2nsefl$1@ID-165840.news.uni-berlin.de>

On 2004-04-06, marco <marco at reimeika.ca> wrote:
> Marco Herrn <herrn at gmx.net> writes:
>
>> On 2004-04-06, marco <marco at reimeika.ca> wrote:
>> > Marco Herrn <herrn at gmx.net> writes:
>> >> the parts in a recursive function. So the thing I want to achieve here
>> >> is to extract %(BBB%(CCC)BBB) and %(DDD).
>> >
>> > p1, p2 = "aaa%(BBB%(CCC)BBB)aaa%(DDD)aaa".split("aaa")[1:-1]
>> 
>> Doesn't help, since I do not know that there is the string "aaa". It was
>> just an example. I do not know any of the strings/characters. The only
>> thing I know is that a percent sign indicates that the content inside
>> the following parentheses is an expression that has to be evaluated.
>
> Does the "aaa"-type string really show up three times? Or is it actually:
>
> "maybeeggs%(BBB%(CCC)BBB)maybeham%(DDD)maybespam"

Yes, it is this. I just used the same strings to indicate the nesting
levels. All strings in this expression are arbitrary strings.

> (but I doubt it -- I guess you'll need a real parser :)

Yes, I already realized that :-)

Marco

-- 
Marco Herrn             herrn at gmx.net
(GnuPG/PGP-signed and crypted mail preferred)
Key ID: 0x94620736



From deetsNOSPAM at web.de  Mon Apr  5 09:03:08 2004
From: deetsNOSPAM at web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Mon, 05 Apr 2004 15:03:08 +0200
Subject: regex help for a newbie
References: <c4rkh6$2kr4f5$2@ID-165840.news.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <c4rlno$2l6532$1@ID-111250.news.uni-berlin.de>

Marco Herrn wrote:

> I have the following string in my program:
> 
>   string= "aaa%(BBB%(CCC)BBB)aaa%(DDD)aaa"
> 
> Now I need to extract the parts that are enclosed in %().
> There are 3 levels of nesting. The first level is named
> 'aaa', the second 'BBB' and 'DDD' and the third 'CCC'.
> I do not need to extract the third level at this moment, since I extract
> the parts in a recursive function. So the thing I want to achieve here
> is to extract %(BBB%(CCC)BBB) and %(DDD).


Regexes aren't powerful enough for this - they are stateless, that means
that they have no way to count the number of open parenthes already found.
so you can't solve your problem with them. 

So what you need here is a parser that has state. You can either use one of
the existing parser frameworks (I personally use spark) or you write it for
yourself, as your problem is considerably easy:
 
def parse(input):
    res = ""
    level = 0
    for c in input:
        if c == "(":
            level += 1
        elif c == ")":
            level -= 1
        if level > 0 and c != "(":
            res += c
    return res
            
-- 
Regards,

Diez B. Roggisch


From andrew.henshaw at gtri.gatech.edu  Fri Apr  2 10:40:28 2004
From: andrew.henshaw at gtri.gatech.edu (Andrew Henshaw)
Date: Fri, 2 Apr 2004 15:40:28 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Making the Zen of Python more useful
References: <106qp0uivlefo40@corp.supernews.com>
	<BPWdnVtfl7ma5PDdRVn-sw@powergate.ca>
	<c4jvc3$b0b$1@news-int.gatech.edu>
	<-5ydnTEmxfuZHvDdRVn-iQ@powergate.ca>
Message-ID: <c4k1hb$cdg$1@news-int.gatech.edu>

In article <-5ydnTEmxfuZHvDdRVn-iQ at powergate.ca>, peter at engcorp.com says...
>
>Andrew Henshaw wrote:
>
>> In article <BPWdnVtfl7ma5PDdRVn-sw at powergate.ca>, peter at engcorp.com says...
>>>I'm not sure why you had to do quite all that.  The following is 
>>>sufficient, and you don't need a custom ROT-13 thingie:
>>>
>>>>>>import StringIO, sys
>>>>>>s = StringIO.StringIO()
>>>>>>sys.stdout = s
>>>>>>import this
>>>>>>sys.stdout = sys.__stdout__
>>>>>>s.getvalue()
>>>
>>>"The Zen of Python, by Tim Peters\n\nBeautiful is ...
>> 
>> Much better.  Still pretty awkward for the purpose I described.  Perhaps, 
the 
>> best solution, overall.
>
>Okay then, how about this one?  :-)
>
> >>> import this
>The Zen of Python, by Tim Peters\n\nBeautiful is ...
> >>> this.s.decode('rot-13')
>u"The Zen of Python, by Tim Peters\n\nBeautiful is ...
>
>-Peter

Hey, that's very slick!  But ... (starting to feel like a whiner), my main 
problem was with the automatic printing of the text upon import.  Obviously, 
that functionality needs to remain.  It would just be nice if there was 
some clean way of (sometimes) using the module without it.


Thanks again!

-- 
Andy



From peter at designtheory.org  Thu Apr 29 14:58:26 2004
From: peter at designtheory.org (Peter Dobcsanyi)
Date: 29 Apr 2004 18:58:26 GMT
Subject: bags in collections - PEP 320
Message-ID: <c6rj8i$6i2$1@beta.qmul.ac.uk>

Dear All,

I have just read PEP-320 and noticed the following comments regarding
the "collections" package:

    ...
    - ? bag (only if use cases established)
    ...

I would like to argue for such a use case. We at designtheory.org are
working on a (maths / stats / comp. sci.) project in the area of Design
Theory. Design theory intersects with many fields, to mention a few:
combinatorics, graph theory, finite geometry, coding theory, and the
design of statistical experiments (from which then name of the field
comes).  Most of our software development will be in Python, although
the released python software so far is very modest.

To show why bags are important for us and, in general, for discrete
mathematicians, here is the definition of the most important type of
designs. A binary block design is a multiset (that is a 'bag') of
subsets of a 'base' set; the elements of the base set are called
'points' and its subsets are called 'blocks'. (Personally, I prefer the
name bag but most mathematicians use multiset.) A non-binary block
design is one whose blocks can also be multisets.

The computations we are facing are very much combinatorial in nature so
we are happy to see that Sets became a builtin and, of course, would
like to see a C implementation for bags too. Our pydesign package (will)
heavily use C extensions. So far we use numarray to compute statistical
properties of designs, but many more combinatorial functionalities will
be implemented in C.

In particular, we are planning to implement a basic permutation group
package whose core will eventually be a C extension. We would like to
deal with automorphism groups and isomorphisms of designs on at least a
basic level within the pydesign package without having to resort to
specialized mathematical packages like GAP. These functionalities can be
useful not only for design theorist, but for anybody using Python to
deal with combinatorial structures, like graphs for example.

In all of these areas the use of multisets (bags) is pervasive.
Please, implement it  --  so we don't have to :-)

For more details on our project, please visit http://designtheory.org/

--             ,
    Peter Dobcsanyi


From jbperez808 at yahoo.com  Sun Apr  4 21:47:53 2004
From: jbperez808 at yahoo.com (Jon Perez)
Date: Mon, 05 Apr 2004 09:47:53 +0800
Subject: Type checking inside a C extension
Message-ID: <c4qdfh$2l5b73$1@ID-180326.news.uni-berlin.de>

I have a C extension function into which I pass a list of lists
of tuples:

[
   [ ("A",1), ("B",2) ("C",3) ],
   [ ("A",1), ("B",2) ("C",3) ],
   [ ("A",1), ("B",2) ("C",3) ],
]

I then unpack the values (down to the tuple elements) into their C
values using:

   PyLong_AsLong(PyTuple_GetItem(tupl,0))

to extract the int from the first element of the tuple and

   PyString_AsString(PyTuple_GetItem(tupl,1))[0]

to get the char from the second element.


The problem is that neither PyLong_AsLong() nor PyString_AsString()
does any type checking so the interpreter crashes when I try to use
the values returned by PyLong_AsLong() and PyString_AsString() if
they happen to be fed objects - the tuple elements in this case - of
the wrong type.

I could certainly do a type check using PyLong_Check() and
PyString_Check() on the tuple items and raise a TypeError exception
to avoid leading to a crash, but I am concerned about the speed hit
as this is the innermost loop of a routine which gets called
really often (I use it for text block transfers).

Is there a less expensive way to check the type, or somehow
avoid a crashing situation (i.e. an exception gets properly raised)
without calling PyLong_Check() and PyString_Check() the elements
of each and every tuple?


From nospam at nowhere.hu  Sun Apr 18 15:26:18 2004
From: nospam at nowhere.hu (Miklós)
Date: Sun, 18 Apr 2004 21:26:18 +0200
Subject: New scripts directory
References: <mailman.736.1082255193.20120.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <c5ulri$lc9$1@namru.matavnet.hu>

That's sorta funny. Or is it? You annouce a new website on comp.lang.python
and there's no Python section on that site..

Mikl?s
"CodeStreets.com" <info at codestreets.com> wrote in message
news:mailman.736.1082255193.20120.python-list at python.org...
Hi,

We would like to announce a new scripts directory website -
http://www.codestreets.com - and we invite you to add your scripts. It's
FREE.

Best regards,

Vlad
www.codestreets.com




From r_b_lawson at yahoo.com  Fri Apr 23 19:15:55 2004
From: r_b_lawson at yahoo.com (Rick Lawson)
Date: 23 Apr 2004 16:15:55 -0700
Subject: tkinter widget collection project
References: <mailman.850.1082566436.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<a7a67196.0404221035.1d9e8165@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <14460e6d.0404231515.270e497d@posting.google.com>

The wiki it is then, I see your point about being able to pick and
choose. At least it will be a central place where widgets can
accumulate.




klappnase at web.de (klappnase) wrote in message news:<a7a67196.0404221035.1d9e8165 at posting.google.com>...
> rick.lawson at rbc.com wrote in message news:<mailman.850.1082566436.20120.python-list at python.org>...
> > I, like a lot of developers, have collected a homegrown set of widgets for
> > Tkinter.
> > 
> > Any thoughts on a central repository for Tkinter widgets or widget
> > extensions? Stuff that's not in Tkinter or standard extensions like Pmw.
> > 
> > It would be nice if you could go to sourceforge and download a package
> > instead of hunting the Vaults, the Activestate cookbook, googling, etc.
> > 
> > If there's enough interest I'd be willing to set the project up on
> > sourceforge and provide some (limited) manpower towards packaging submitted
> > widgets.
> > 
> 
> Great idea!
> 
> Maybe it might be even nicer if it was not necessary to download the
> whole package; I was thinking of a page where you could directly copy
> and paste the code of a widget into your application.
> I'm not sure about that, but maybe the Tkinter wiki Cameron Laird
> mentioned might be a good place for that, it might make it easier for
> other people to extend existing widgets (or maybe fix bugs in more
> complex ones).
> 
> 
> > Thanks,
> > Rick Lawson 
> > 
> 
> Thanks to you!
> 
> Michael


From thorsten at thorstenkampe.de  Thu Apr 29 04:29:58 2004
From: thorsten at thorstenkampe.de (Thorsten Kampe)
Date: Thu, 29 Apr 2004 10:29:58 +0200
Subject: sorting a list
References: <f046efac.0403091513.3b392074@posting.google.com>
	<17i4tmtsfvae9$.dlg@thorstenkampe.de>
	<kjYjc.18326$Jy3.17150@fed1read03>
Message-ID: <yavh86nuktfr$.dlg@thorstenkampe.de>

[Snip fullquote]

* Sean Berry (2004-04-29 02:50 +0100)
>>>> a = ['A', 'D', 'F', 'a', 'f']
>>>> a.sort(lambda x, y: cmp(string.lower(x), string.lower(y)))
>>>> a
> ['a', 'A', 'D', 'f', 'F']
> 
> this will work too, if lower can come before upper.

Yes indeed. But the main point of my posting was to use a general
function sort so you don't have to reinvent the wheel everytime for
every single sorting problem.

Another advantage of my approach is to use a function of *one*
variable (at the top level) and the other ones use a function of two
variables. It doesn't make much difference with this trivial task, but
when the function you want to sort by is much more complex it makes a
hell of a difference.

funcsort(foo, lambda x: x.lower())

is clean code and tells even without a comment that you want to sort
case insensitively.

Thorsten


From ep at epoz.org  Thu Apr  1 06:54:38 2004
From: ep at epoz.org (Etienne Posthumus)
Date: Thu, 1 Apr 2004 13:54:38 +0200
Subject: xmlrpc, httplib and SSL (HTTP 1.1 XMLRPC client)
In-Reply-To: <f1bfj1-3s.ln1@home.rogerbinns.com>
References: <f1bfj1-3s.ln1@home.rogerbinns.com>
Message-ID: <5A9E0238-83D3-11D8-B15E-0003935458F6@epoz.org>


On Mar 27, 2004, at 5:03 AM, Roger Binns wrote:
> However I was wondering if anyone was working on fixing the
> (IMHO horrible) mess and wants any moral support?

I wanted to do keep the connections on which my clients do XMLRPC calls 
open, and after staring at the xmlrpclib.py source for a while, came up 
with the class at the bottom of the message. Just thought I would post 
it here in the spirit of sharing. You would use it like this:

import httplib, xmlrpclib
s = xmlrpclib.ServerProxy('http://SOMEURL', 
transport=PersistTransport())

And then use as normal. When any error occurs, the connection is 
closed, seems a bit pessimistic, but I didn't want to do anything more 
fancy.

cheers,

Etienne Posthumus
---
http://www.mnemosyne.org/
Cultural Heritage Research
Python, Zope, XML expertise for hire.
Amsterdam, Nederland
----

class PersistTransport(xmlrpclib.Transport):
     '''Provides a Transport for the xmlrpclib that uses httplib 
supporting persistent connections
     Does not close the connection after each request.
     '''
     connection = None

     def request(self, host, handler, request_body, verbose=0):
         if not self.connection:
             host, extra_headers, x509 = self.get_host_info(host)
             self.connection = httplib.HTTPConnection(host)
             self.headers = {"User-Agent" : self.user_agent,
                "Content-Type" : "text/xml",
                "Accept": "text/xml"}
             if extra_headers:
                 for key, item in extra_headers:
                     self.headers[key] = item

         self.headers["Content-Length"] = str(len(request_body))
         self.connection.request('POST', handler, request_body, 
self.headers)
         r = self.connection.getresponse()
         if r.status != 200:
             self.connection.close()
             self.connection = None
             raise xmlrpclib.ProtocolError( host + handler, r.status, 
r.reason, '' )
         data = r.read()
         p, u = self.getparser()
         p.feed(data)
         p.close()
         return u.close()




From peter at semantico.com  Wed Apr  7 05:51:22 2004
From: peter at semantico.com (Peter Hickman)
Date: Wed, 07 Apr 2004 10:51:22 +0100
Subject: design by contract versus doctest
In-Reply-To: <4073c94a$0$5066$4d4ebb8e@news.nl.uu.net>
References: <407174ea$0$5066$4d4ebb8e@news.nl.uu.net>
	<4072977b$0$1699$afc38c87@news.easynet.co.uk>
	<4073c94a$0$5066$4d4ebb8e@news.nl.uu.net>
Message-ID: <4073cf1b$0$18217$afc38c87@news.easynet.co.uk>

aku wrote:
> If someone deserves the title "father of DBC" it surely must
> be E. W. Dijkstra, the one who teached me in college;)

How come? This is obviously some bit of CS history I have missed, do tell.


From flupke at nonexistingdomain.com  Thu Apr 22 19:24:15 2004
From: flupke at nonexistingdomain.com (flupke)
Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2004 23:24:15 GMT
Subject: python web programming / CMS
References: <EOOhc.82192$A9.5538906@phobos.telenet-ops.be>
	<mailman.910.1082637637.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<XnQhc.82310$X%7.5425202@phobos.telenet-ops.be>
	<0kVhc.54316$eB7.29255@newssvr25.news.prodigy.com>
	<9YWhc.82882$%l7.5377160@phobos.telenet-ops.be>
	<TkXhc.54353$wn.10631@newssvr25.news.prodigy.com>
Message-ID: <zuYhc.82967$9b.5554283@phobos.telenet-ops.be>

asdf sdf wrote:
>> Well, i'm assigned a project where i have to choose a intranet
>> sollution and a platform for future webbased tools development.
>> I'm trying to get a clear idea of what is possible.
>> For the moment 2 kinds of setup are considered
>> OpenCMS - JBoss - Apache - Tomcat
>> or
>> Plone - Zope - Apache - Spyce / modpython
>>
>
> with modpython/spyce you can use your own python objects.
>
> There's been a lot of discussion of Plone and Zope.  Check Slashdot.
> Both have a lot of rapid fans, but naysayers say they are too
> complicated and too slow.  Some say you're buy end user ease-of-use at
> the cost of administrative complexity.  you'll have to let me know
> what you find out.

Hehe :) Well i'm trying to figure out before i decide on what i'm
going to use. Are there other good CMS around based on Python?

Anyway, i saw a page ( forgot the link ) that had benchmarks
between python, java, c++ and perl and it seemed that Python
was indeed a lot slower than the other languages. But if you have
a fast server, it might not be so much of a problem.

flupke





From stach at fr.USUN.pl  Thu Apr 15 13:57:24 2004
From: stach at fr.USUN.pl (Krzysztof Stachlewski)
Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2004 19:57:24 +0200
Subject: Socket error: 10053 software caused connection abort
In-Reply-To: <c5mfe3$1bm$1@newshispeed.ch>
References: <c5kc37$kco$1@newshispeed.ch> <c5mfe3$1bm$1@newshispeed.ch>
Message-ID: <c5mif8$27g$1@absinth.dialog.net.pl>

Jean-Pierre Bergamin wrote:

> Jean-Pierre Bergamin wrote:
> 
>>I'd be glad if someone could test theses scripts to see if this error
>>also occurs on other coputers and systems.
>>
>>Or is there anything wrong with the code?
> 
> 
> Could anyone reproduce this error?

Yes I could observe this error some time ago.
It is not related to Python but it is rather a Windows Sockets error.
Searching the google I have found this description of the error message:
http://support.ipswitch.com/kb/WSK-19980702-EM02.htm
Try to use a sniffer like Ethereal and see what packets
are sent and received from the network.

-- 
Stach  Tlen: stachobywatelpl, GG: 1811474
        Jabber: stach at jabber atman pl


From python at rcn.com  Sat Apr 17 09:17:55 2004
From: python at rcn.com (Raymond Hettinger)
Date: 17 Apr 2004 06:17:55 -0700
Subject: Automatic, portable optimization of global access
References: <5d83790c.0404150721.46a3b5d0@posting.google.com>
	<7xvfk17zeg.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<5d83790c.0404151803.598c1807@posting.google.com>
	<7xbrlseclf.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<5d83790c.0404160319.f46f2f9@posting.google.com>
	<7x1xmnvg7o.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <5d83790c.0404170517.58332895@posting.google.com>

[Paul Rubin] 
> I'm saying your optimization is important enough that it should be run
> on everything, except the rare cases where it's invalid to do so ...

Thanks.

You might be interested in the latest refinement.  Whole modules can
now be optimized by just adding two lines:

    http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Cookbook/Python/Recipe/277940

I tried it out on some standard library modules.  It was easy to add
and the testsuites ran flawlessly:  asynchat, asyncore, calendar, csv,
difflib, dis, optparse, pickle, Queue, random, sets, sre, sre_compile,
sre_parse, textwrap, unittest, urllib2, urlparse, and warnings.


Raymond Hettinger


From jcarlson at uci.edu  Thu Apr  1 19:00:46 2004
From: jcarlson at uci.edu (Josiah Carlson)
Date: Thu, 01 Apr 2004 16:00:46 -0800
Subject: Travelling salesman variation in python
In-Reply-To: <slrnc6op8l.spl.erlendga@tva.ifi.uio.no>
References: <slrnc6on9h.spl.erlendga@tva.ifi.uio.no>
	<c4ho3l$4he$1@news.service.uci.edu>
	<slrnc6op8l.spl.erlendga@tva.ifi.uio.no>
Message-ID: <c4ialj$mcq$1@news.service.uci.edu>

> An approximate solution would be good enough, do you have any 
> suggestions about how do do that?

One approximate solution to the TSP is the bitonic TSP.  That is, start 
at the leftmost point, find a path to the rightmost point, then find a 
return path to the leftmost point.

Search for 'optimal bitonic tsp' in google, the second entry will have 
pseudocode for the algorithm.  I've personally converted it to Python 
for other uses, but I'll leave it as an exercise for you.

You can convert it into your 'maximum' by changing the line:
if q < b[j - 1, j] then
to:
if q > b[j - 1, j] then


  - Josiah


From tjreedy at udel.edu  Wed Apr 21 14:21:28 2004
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2004 14:21:28 -0400
Subject: fmod and %
References: <cthbrlllkmc.fsf@lcpxdf.wm.lc.ehu.es>
Message-ID: <c66e32$oqo$1@sea.gmane.org>


"Zunbeltz Izaola" <zunbeltz at wm.lc.ehu.es.XXX> wrote in message
news:cthbrlllkmc.fsf at lcpxdf.wm.lc.ehu.es...
>
> Hi,
>
> I have a problem with % operation. It returns a incorrect value in
> this case:
>
> >>> -2.77555756156e-17%1
> 1.0
>
> where the returned value should be -2.77555756156e-17.

Wrong.  As per the docs, x % positive number is defined as being positive
and <= that positive number.  So above should be about 1.0 - 2.8e17, which,
for 32 bit machines, is 1.0, which is exactly what you got

>>> 1 - 2.8e-17
1.0.

as with
>>> 1 - 5.5e-17
1.0

whereas
>>> 1 - 5.6e-17
0.99999999999999989

> >>> -0.32768000000000003%1
> 0.67232000000000003

And this is 1.0 - .32768

Terry J. Reedy






From jonas at jonasgalvez.com  Tue Apr 20 22:55:52 2004
From: jonas at jonasgalvez.com (Jonas Galvez)
Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 23:55:52 -0300
Subject: Regex'ing null bytes
Message-ID: <c64nve$kut$1@sea.gmane.org>

Hi,

I'm trying to parse some binary data with regexes. It works well in
the latest Python build, but I need to run this on Python 1.5.2. The
binary data has a pattern like this:

    keyName1\002..(.*)\000.*keyName2\002..(.*)\000
    (I'm using regex syntax to illustrate)

So I wrote the following script:

    def amfKey(str):
        return "%s\002..([^\000]*)" % str

    keys = re.compile(amfKey("key"), re.DOTALL).findall(amfStr)

Works on 2.3.3, but produces the following error on 1.5.2:

    Traceback (innermost last):
       File "test.py", line 26, in ?
         keys = re.compile(amfKey("key"), re.DOTALL).findall(amfStr)
       File "C:\Python152\Lib\re.py", line 79, in compile
         code=pcre_compile(pattern, flags, groupindex)
     TypeError: argument 1: expected string without null bytes, string found

Does anyone know a workaround? The type of binary data I'm trying to
parse is AMF (Action Message Format), Macromedia's proprietary format
for fast communication between the Flash Player and their "Flash
Remoting" servers (ColdFusion/.NET/Java implementations). But there
are opensource "Flash Remoting" implementations in PHP (amfphp.org),
Perl (simonf.com/flap/) and Java (openamf.org) already - I've
started to work on the Python port.

And I wanted to keep this Python 1.5.2-compatible...



Thanks in advance,


=-
Jonas Galvez
jonasgalvez.com/blog
macromedia.com/go/team







From tjreedy at udel.edu  Sun Apr  4 16:26:11 2004
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Sun, 4 Apr 2004 16:26:11 -0400
Subject: OT (was Re: But it still doesn't explain the joke)
References: <mailman.189.1080759511.20120.python-list@python.org><kmjsj1-89u.ln1@snout.lairds.org>	<c4glmq$j1i$1@swifty.westend.com><c4h6ad$lu0$1@panix1.panix.com><106o7vn56fgmt85@corp.supernews.com><XoWdnevUOvXsu_HdRVn-tA@powergate.ca><406F3C29.6030504@freedom.place>	<c4nrgo$a98$1@news.service.uci.edu><mailman.323.1081056558.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<c4oiq6$1hg$1@news.service.uci.edu>
Message-ID: <c4pr12$3to$1@sea.gmane.org>


"Josiah Carlson" <jcarlson at uci.edu> wrote in message
news:c4oiq6$1hg$1 at news.service.uci.edu...

> Sure, sounds good.

Glad we agree.  The same issue came up a year ago when a couple of people
posted about Iraq but later agreed to stop.

> For someone who is advocating political truce, you sure loaded your post.

Yes, I intentionally mirrored your statements to illustrate why not to
continue down that road ;-)

> Practice what you preach my friend.

I just as intentionally quoted my examples as belief or as what 'might be
said' instead of presenting them syntactically as factual statements.

Terry J. Reedy






From sean at sands.beach.net  Mon Apr 26 17:03:55 2004
From: sean at sands.beach.net (Sean Berry)
Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2004 21:03:55 GMT
Subject: How to read a file from another server?  Newbie
Message-ID: <%Oejc.16$ph.9@fed1read07>

I am trying to read in a file from another server.

If I try 
x = open("servername:/path/to/file", "r")

I get the following error:
IOError: [Errno 2] No such file or directory: 'servername:/path/to/file'


Sorry for the easy question, but couldn't find anything on google.

-- 


From sean_berry at cox.net  Mon Apr 12 18:18:18 2004
From: sean_berry at cox.net (Sean Berry)
Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2004 15:18:18 -0700
Subject: Escaping characters in MySQLdb query
References: <AkEec.271$U83.155@fed1read03>
Message-ID: <QAEec.319$U83.296@fed1read03>

I was doing something like this:

for item in values:
    item = item.replace("'", "//'")

But I am looking for something a lot nicer.

Sorry about my first post date... 12 hours off.


"Sean Berry" <sean_berry at cox.net> wrote in message
news:AkEec.271$U83.155 at fed1read03...
> I wrote a little script that is inserting thousands of records into a
mysql
> database.
>
> How do I escape characters like ' in my insert statements?
>
> I have something like the following (much shorter) example:
>
> c.execute("INSERT INTO records (var1, var2) values ('%s', '%s')"
%(value1,
> value2))
>
> My problem is when value1 is something like "Tom's auto supply".  The ' in
> Tom's needs to be escaped.  How can I do this?
>
> Thanks.
>
>




From me at privacy.net  Sat Apr 10 18:35:16 2004
From: me at privacy.net (Heather Coppersmith)
Date: 10 Apr 2004 18:35:16 -0400
Subject: how to know who calls a method
References: <40771b75$0$15656$626a14ce@news.free.fr>
Message-ID: <m2wu4ntqaj.fsf@unique.phony.fqdn>

On Fri, 09 Apr 2004 23:54:02 +0200,
Alex Garel <alex.garel at free.fr> wrote:

> It is because I would like an object to be aware of another
> object reading it so it can signal future change in its value to
> the last. I can use a getter which precise who is the reader but
> my attempt was to be able to use a normal getter (x=y) in a
> Phytonic fashion !

The usual solution involves some sort of "registration" (untested
and definitely needs more details and error checking, etc.):

class emitter:

    def __init__( self ):
        self.collectors = [ ]
        self.data = None

    def register_for_updates( self, collector ):
        self.collectors.append( collector )

    def set_data( self, newdata ):
        self.data = newdata
        for collector in self.collectors:
            collector( self, newdata )

class collector:

    def __init__( self, watch_this_object ):
        watch_this_object.register_for_updates( self.collect_updates )

    def collect_updates( self, other_object, new_data ):
        print other_object, "just got new data:", new_data

Without this sort of set up, emitter.set_data wouldn't know
exactly what to do when there's new data anyway.  This approach is
more flexible than a fixed method invocation should you have a
many-to-many emitter-to-collector relationship.

There's also no reason you couldn't wrap emitter.set_data up in
some sort of property so it would work as part of the getter
and/or setter for some attribute (but I don't like properties:
explicit is better than implicit).

HTH,
Heather

-- 
Heather Coppersmith
That's not right; that's not even wrong. -- Wolfgang Pauli


From cm at leetspeak.org  Tue Apr 13 08:47:58 2004
From: cm at leetspeak.org (Michael Walter)
Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2004 14:47:58 +0200
Subject: Escaping characters in MySQLdb query
In-Reply-To: <Xns94CA1EA83E609ukcoREMOVEfreenetrtw@130.133.1.4>
References: <AkEec.271$U83.155@fed1read03>
	<Xns94CA1EA83E609ukcoREMOVEfreenetrtw@130.133.1.4>
Message-ID: <c5gnhv$1dv3b$1@ID-88904.news.uni-berlin.de>

Rob Williscroft wrote:
> Sean Berry wrote in news:AkEec.271$U83.155 at fed1read03 in
> comp.lang.python: 
> 
> 
>>I wrote a little script that is inserting thousands of records into a
>>mysql database.
>>
>>How do I escape characters like ' in my insert statements?
>>
>>I have something like the following (much shorter) example:
>>
>>c.execute("INSERT INTO records (var1, var2) values ('%s', '%s')"  
>>%(value1, value2))
>>
>>My problem is when value1 is something like "Tom's auto supply".  The
>>' in Tom's needs to be escaped.  How can I do this?
>>
> 
> 
> IIUC this is (mostly) a SQL question. 
No, this is a do-I-know-my-library-well-enough-to-make-my-life-easy 
question ;) Note that both richard and me are actually passing the 
format string arguments as a *separate* argument to execute(). If you 
then have a look at the MySQLdb source code, you will see that those 
arguments get quoted automagically using the connections' literal_blabla 
method.

Hence, c.execute("SELECT %s", "fooo'bar") will actually execute "SELECT 
'fooo\'bar'" in the database.

Cheers,
Michael


From __peter__ at web.de  Tue Apr 20 09:10:59 2004
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 15:10:59 +0200
Subject: [OT] Keyboard layout,
	was Re: Dollar sign ($) on foriegn keyboards? (prothon)
References: <mk3hc.13895$dZ1.10823@fed1read04>
	<c62m70$2hu$06$1@news.t-online.com>
	<c634cq$dbu$1@swifty.westend.com>
Message-ID: <c637h4$9bf$07$1@news.t-online.com>

Peter Maas wrote:

> Peter Otten wrote:
>> In Germany every serious programmer has to switch to the American
>  > layout anyway because of {}[]@\~| (all odd AltGr combinations).
> 
> Oh, I didn't know that. Fortunately I'm not a serious programmer. ;)

I hate people being apodictic - even myself.
But I never felt comfortable with AltGr, so it was a great relief when I
learned about switching kezboard lazouts and well worth the occasional y-z
glitch. By the way, I once came across a whole book that had these
characters swapped.

Maybe my fingers just didn't grow in the right place to press AltGr+9
simultaneously, but somehow I can't see how that makes me the member of a
minority.

Mit freundlichen Gr[-en :-) 

Peter




From tkpmep at hotmail.com  Thu Apr 22 10:08:23 2004
From: tkpmep at hotmail.com (Thomas Philips)
Date: 22 Apr 2004 07:08:23 -0700
Subject: Deleting objects
Message-ID: <b4a8ffb6.0404220608.56bf3d63@posting.google.com>

I'm teaching myself OOP using Michael Dawson's "Python Programming For
The Absolute Beginner" and have a question about deleting objects. My
game has two classes: Player and Alien, essentially identical,
instances of which can shoot at each other. Player is described below

class Player(object):
    #Class attributes for class Player
    n=0	#n is the number of players

    #Private methods for class Player
    def __init__(self,name):
	self.name = name
        self.strength = 100
        Player.n +=1

    def __del__(self):
        Player.n -=1
        print "I guess I lost this battle"
    
    #Public methods for class Player
    def blast(self,enemy,energy):
        enemy.hit(energy)

    def hit(self,energy):
        self.strength -= energy
        if(self.strength <= 50):
            self.__del__()

I instantiate one instance of each class: 
Hero = Player("Me")
Villain = Alien("Not Me")

If Hero hits Villain with 
Hero.blast(Villain, 100), 

Villain dies and executes its destructor (__del__). The game then
ends. However, when I execute the program in IDLE, IT FINISHES BY
EXECUTING THE DESTRUCTOR FOR BOTH HERO AND VILLAIN.

How can this be? As one of the two objects was destroyed prior to the
end of the game, how can it be re-destroyed when the program ends?

Thomas Philips


From afriere at yahoo.co.uk  Tue Apr 27 22:02:04 2004
From: afriere at yahoo.co.uk (Asun Friere)
Date: 27 Apr 2004 19:02:04 -0700
Subject: Is Perl *that* good?
References: <c6ich0$c5mee$1@ID-205437.news.uni-berlin.de>	<iL3jc.232$Yc.2330@news4.e.nsc.no>	<108q51j4dscn7dc@corp.supernews.com>	<knbjc.267$id.3998@news2.e.nsc.no>	<pan.2004.04.26.20.50.19.843510@hotmail.com>	<87fzaqmm8t.fsf@strauser.com>	<38ec68a6.0404262308.50029919@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.49.1083084698.25742.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <38ec68a6.0404271802.61e7a4c3@posting.google.com>

Skip Montanaro <skip at pobox.com> wrote in message news:<mailman.49.1083084698.25742.python-list at python.org>...
 
> Sure, it's syntactically bound into the language.  There will always be an
> extra constant overhead to enable regular expressions in Python.  That
> doesn't make them any less powerful than the Perl variety.  It's simply a
> pair of different design decisions Guido and Larry made (along with a few
> others).

Sure.

>     Asun> Probably the only time I would reach for Perl rather than for
>     Asun> python is when I knew a task involved a lot of regex (and no
>     Asun> object orientation).
> 
> Why?  I write non-object-oriented Python code all the time.  

What I meant is that if it involves lots of regexp I'd probably use
Perl  If it involved lots of regex AND object orientation, I wouldn't
consider Perl.

> Python/Perl switch you'd still have to shift your mental gears to deal with
> a different syntax, different way of getting at and using functionality that
> isn't builtin, etc.  Even with lots of regex fiddling to do, I think the
> extra overhead of using regexes in Python would be swamped by the other
> differences.  

It's good for the soul to shift your mental gears every now and then.


From MAILsweeper at acxiom.com  Tue Apr 13 13:07:01 2004
From: MAILsweeper at acxiom.com (MAILsweeper at acxiom.com)
Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2004 11:07:01 -0600 (CST)
Subject: Email Quarantined Due to Virus
Message-ID: <T68eff52fe1c6a0647fab0@CWYSMTP01.acxiom.com>

The Email Message: Word document,
sent to: memberservices at acxiom.com

contained the following virus that could not be cleaned:
Scenarios/Incoming/Inbound Scan: Information 0x42060008, W32/Netsky-T



The Email has been quarantined, and will not be delivered.

Thank you,


**********************************************************************
The information contained in this communication is
confidential, is intended only for the use of the recipient
named above, and may be legally privileged.
If the reader of this message is not the intended
recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, 
distribution, or copying of this communication is strictly
prohibited.
If you have received this communication in error,
please re-send this communication to the sender and
delete the original message or any copy of it from your
computer system. Thank You.




From garry at sage.att.com  Mon Apr 12 09:23:46 2004
From: garry at sage.att.com (Garry Hodgson)
Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2004 13:23:46 GMT
Subject: why is python better than eg. smalltalk?? no one has any
	solid arguments! you should all go to church with all that
	religious talk!
In-Reply-To: <c5abbm$ko8$1@panix2.panix.com>
References: <c5abbm$ko8$1@panix2.panix.com>
Message-ID: <2004041209231081776226@k2.sage.att.com>

aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz) wrote:

> I found my editor fifteen years ago.  Guess which it is. 

ed?

----
Garry Hodgson, Technology Consultant, AT&T Labs

Be happy for this moment.
This moment is your life.



From cpl.19.ghum at spamgourmet.com  Mon Apr 26 02:52:32 2004
From: cpl.19.ghum at spamgourmet.com (Harald Massa)
Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2004 08:52:32 +0200
Subject: Maya API with Python?
References: <c6i321$cbgu4$1@ID-207230.news.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <Xns94D75A4FA74E6cpl19ghumspamgourmet@62.153.159.134>

> Anybody tried that?  Progress or horror stories to tell?
> 


"Industrial Light & Magic Runs on Python"
http://www.pythonology.com/success&story=ilm


I am sure, they also use maya.

Harald


From michele.simionato at poste.it  Thu Apr  1 06:52:34 2004
From: michele.simionato at poste.it (Michele Simionato)
Date: 1 Apr 2004 03:52:34 -0800
Subject: ANNOUNCE: 'goto' for Python
References: <mailman.210.1080803438.20120.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <95aa1afa.0404010352.80de14e@posting.google.com>

Richie Hindle <richie at entrian.com> wrote in message news:<mailman.210.1080803438.20120.python-list at python.org>...

Today is April the first ... ;)


From tckanta1 at compuserve.com  Mon Apr 12 06:55:53 2004
From: tckanta1 at compuserve.com (Tckanta1)
Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2004 10:55:53 +0000
Subject: have any trouble with health ? we may help you... more
In-Reply-To: <KB36GHF6H0L14AHI@python.org>
References: <KB36GHF6H0L14AHI@python.org>
Message-ID: <6FA4C0D8ABCL6HH4@compuserve.com>

http://CNBDGH.BIZ/PH009/?affiliate_id=233642&campaign_id=407




From sholden at holdenweb.com  Wed Apr 28 11:40:31 2004
From: sholden at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Wed, 28 Apr 2004 11:40:31 -0400
Subject: Backticks: What up?
In-Reply-To: <ecqdnYJyG7_mWRLdRVn-iQ@speakeasy.net>
References: <PZCcnT7qvI2rchPdRWPC-w@speakeasy.net>
	<cM-dndNYm-yOMRLd4p2dnA@powergate.ca>
	<ecqdnYJyG7_mWRLdRVn-iQ@speakeasy.net>
Message-ID: <408FD06F.20801@holdenweb.com>

Steven Brent wrote:
> Thanks! I didn't know you could use printf type syntax with return....

The "return" statement allows an arbitratu expression as its target, 
even complex objects like sequences, classes and instances. For example:

 >>> def tuplify(a, b):
...   return a, b
...
 >>> tuplify([1, 2], [3, 4])
([1, 2], [3, 4])
 >>> thing, thong = tuplify("sing", (1, 2, 3))
 >>> thing
'sing'
 >>> thong
(1, 2, 3)
 >>>

regards
  Steve


From python at holdenweb.com  Thu Apr  8 18:05:59 2004
From: python at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Thu, 08 Apr 2004 18:05:59 -0400
Subject: does commands.getoutput() use nice()?
In-Reply-To: <2004040810261081434393@k2.sage.att.com>
References: <2004040810261081434393@k2.sage.att.com>
Message-ID: <n4kdc.1095$VE5.185@lakeread01>

Garry Hodgson wrote:
> a friend is trying to track down the source of a mysterious
> slowdown that's happening in a webware app he's doing.
> 
> he's got an external precompiled application that he invokes
> from python using commands.getoutput().  usually it runs quickly
> (1-2 secs), but sometimes it take much longer (80-90 secs).
> he's instrumented the program to verify that it's the query invocation
> that's spending all the time.  he's run the query in a test rig outside 
> of python, and it seems to run normally all the time.  but when run
> from python, via webware, he gets this wide performance variations.
> 
> his current hypothesis is that when python runs his command, it
> "nices" it down in priority, so it's more susceptible to other load
> on the machine.  i searched the python source, and don't see anyplace
> that appears to do this.  but i thought i'd check here anyway.
> 
> can anyone support or reject his theory?
> 
> thanks
> 
Define "sometimes".

It may be webware session cleanup that's hitting him, or some other 
phenomenon that only occurs when teh server is relatively heavily loaded.

regards
  Steve



From pwatson at redlinepy.com  Sat Apr  3 19:14:54 2004
From: pwatson at redlinepy.com (Paul Watson)
Date: Sat, 3 Apr 2004 18:14:54 -0600
Subject: Building 2.3.3 on AIX, term.h complaint
Message-ID: <406f537f$1_1@themost.net>


I am trying to build Python 2.3.3 on AIX.  I believe that we are using gcc
2.95.3, but later in the ./configure output, it appears to say that gcc is
not being used.  Does this suggest a real problem?  Any suggestions?

$ uname -a
AIX kbs80 3 4 000C30CD4C00 unknown

$ whence cc
/tools/bin/cc

$ ls -al /tools/bin/cc
lrwxrwxrwx   1 internal tools           3 Jul  2  2001 /tools/bin/cc -> gcc

$ whence gcc
/tools/bin/gcc

$ gcc -v
Reading specs from /tools/lib/gcc-lib/powerpc-ibm-aix4.3.3.0/2.95.3/specs
gcc version 2.95.3 20010315 (release)


checking term.h usability... no
checking term.h presence... yes
configure: WARNING: term.h: present but cannot be compiled
configure: WARNING: term.h: check for missing prerequisite headers?
configure: WARNING: term.h: proceeding with the preprocessor's result
configure: WARNING:     ## ------------------------------------ ##
configure: WARNING:     ## Report this to bug-autoconf at gnu.org. ##
configure: WARNING:     ## ------------------------------------ ##
checking for term.h... yes




From jburgy at hotmail.com  Sat Apr  3 11:41:31 2004
From: jburgy at hotmail.com (Jan Burgy)
Date: 3 Apr 2004 08:41:31 -0800
Subject: Subclassing file and getting around the file.__init__ rigidity
References: <807692de.0404012244.53b476dc@posting.google.com>
	<c4j66h$a0k$1@newshispeed.ch>
Message-ID: <807692de.0404030841.1c660c65@posting.google.com>

Hi Franz,

your idea is exactly the type of stuff I was thinking of.
Unfortunately it doesn't work... Does anybody see what we're doing
wrong?

Thanks to all

Jan Burgy

"F. GEIGER" <fgeiger at datec.at> wrote in message news:<c4j66h$a0k$1 at newshispeed.ch>...
> # Untested code
> 
> class BufferedFile(file):
> 
>     def __init__(self, name):
>         if type(name) == file:
>             self.__dict__.update(file.__dict__) # Kinda cctor
>         else:
>             file.__init__(self, name)
>         self.buffer = None
> 
> Cheers
> Franz
> 
> "Jan Burgy" <jburgy at hotmail.com> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
> news:807692de.0404012244.53b476dc at posting.google.com...
> > Hi all y'all,
> >
> > Consider the class down below. I've implemented it just because I
> > needed the pushback method. Now of course the third line in __init__
> > doesn't work and I even understand why. My question is: is there any
> > way to make it work? Somebody proposed a patch for fileobject.c to
> > allow stuff like fp = file(fp1.fileno()) but it looks like it's been
> > rejected. I won't so bold as to request a change in Python. Should I
> > try to re-write this class in C? Although I know C I'm much to lazy to
> > take on the entire python API, not that it doesn't look nice.
> >
> > Thanks for your help
> >
> > Jan Burgy
> >
> > class BufferedFile(file):
> >
> >     def __init__(self, name):
> >         if type(name) == file:
> >             self = name                   # DOESN'T WORK!
> >         else:
> >             file.__init__(self, name)
> >         self.buffer = None
> >
> >     def readline(self):
> >         if self.buffer:
> >             i = self.buffer.find("\n")
> >             line, self.buffer = self.buffer[:i], self.buffer[:i+1]
> >         else:
> >             line = file.readline(self)
> >         return line
> >
> >     def pushback(self, line):
> >         self.buffer = line + self.buffer


From roy at panix.com  Thu Apr 29 10:45:31 2004
From: roy at panix.com (Roy Smith)
Date: Thu, 29 Apr 2004 10:45:31 -0400
Subject: suggestions for using tuples instead of list (or vice versa)
References: <ylxi7lokk9ms$.dlg@thorstenkampe.de>
Message-ID: <roy-FFD0C1.10452829042004@news.panix.com>

In article <ylxi7lokk9ms$.dlg at thorstenkampe.de>,
 Thorsten Kampe <thorsten at thorstenkampe.de> wrote:

> I found out that I am rarely using tuples and almost always lists
> because of the more flexible usability of lists (methods, etc.)

There was an extensive thread on this topic within the last month or 
two.  Like many threads, it rambled and wandered a bit, but covered the 
topic quite well.  DAGS for list or tuple in the subject, date <= 2 
months, and you should find it.


From paul at prescod.net  Mon Apr 12 00:14:55 2004
From: paul at prescod.net (Paul Prescod)
Date: Sun, 11 Apr 2004 21:14:55 -0700
Subject: Parsing
In-Reply-To: <40796E95.9090207@graffiti.idv.tw>
References: <40796E95.9090207@graffiti.idv.tw>
Message-ID: <407A17BF.9030001@prescod.net>

Timothy Wu wrote:

> I'm parsing Firefox bookmarks and writing the same bookmark to another 
> file. To make sure I read and write utf-8 correctly I make open files 
> like this for read and write:
> 
>   codecs.open(file, "r", "utf-8")

The virtue of this code is that now you have a file object that will 
parse FROM UTF-8 into Python Unicode objects. The Unicode objects 
neither know nor care that they came from UTF-8.

  Paul Prescod





From beans at bedford.net  Mon Apr 19 21:22:35 2004
From: beans at bedford.net (TomH)
Date: 19 Apr 2004 18:22:35 -0700
Subject: Python/Win based report generator for MySQL databases
References: <%zCgc.59345$oj6.9111@bignews6.bellsouth.net>
Message-ID: <7135e36e.0404191722.69703df5@posting.google.com>

"Robert Oschler" <no_replies at fake_email_address.invalid> wrote in message news:<%zCgc.59345$oj6.9111 at bignews6.bellsouth.net>...
> Has anybody seen a nice Python 2.2+ compatible based module/package, running
> on a Win2k box, that makes creating reports from a MySQL database easy?
> 
> I am both a Python programmer and MySQL programmer so it doesn't have to be
> too simple, just useful.
...
If Excel is available, its easy to use ADO to get a ResultSet and load
it into a spreadsheet.
http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=http://support.microsoft.com:80/support/kb/articles/q246/3/35.asp&NoWebContent=1


From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Mon Apr  5 00:40:18 2004
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 5 Apr 2004 00:40:18 -0400
Subject: Difference between default arguments and keyword arguments
References: <UmTbc.9904$NL4.4809@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net>
	<406FFEAF.3080400@netscape.net>
Message-ID: <c4qnvi$q54$1@panix1.panix.com>

In article <406FFEAF.3080400 at netscape.net>,
DoubleM  <DoublemPI at netscape.net> wrote:
>
>All arguments are keyword arguments.  They may or may not have a default 
>value.  

Not quite true:

    def foo(a, b):
        pass

    args = 1, 2
    foo(*args)

    def bar(*args):
        pass

    bar(1, 2)
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

"usenet imitates usenet"  --Darkhawk


From ndbecker2 at verizon.net  Wed Apr 21 19:51:08 2004
From: ndbecker2 at verizon.net (Neal Becker)
Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2004 19:51:08 -0400
Subject: zip 2 sequences into 1
Message-ID: <c671dc$2sc$1@sea.gmane.org>

What's an easy/efficient way to zip together 2 (or more) sequences into a
single sequence?

I noticed zip builtin.  This combines

a_0 ... a_n
b_0 ... b_n

into

(a_0 b_0)(a_1 b_1)...

What I want is a single sequence

a_0 b_0 a_1 b_1...





From jacob at cd.chalmers.se  Thu Apr  1 04:55:46 2004
From: jacob at cd.chalmers.se (Jacob Hallen)
Date: 1 Apr 2004 09:55:46 GMT
Subject: Tapestry uncovered
Message-ID: <mailman.1080823023.15068.clpa-moderators@python.org>

A magnificent discovery was made today, as a medeival tapstry
foretelling the coming of Europython this summer was uncovered.

"It is amazing in its precision" says Jacob Hall?n, one of the
organisers of the event. "And all the work that must have gone
into it."

A digitised image of the tapestry has been made. It can be
viewed at 
http://www.europython.org/conferences/epc2004/news/Tapestry
-- 



From jcarlson at uci.edu  Sat Apr  3 16:29:43 2004
From: jcarlson at uci.edu (Josiah Carlson)
Date: Sat, 03 Apr 2004 13:29:43 -0800
Subject: Indent testers needed (Prothon)
In-Reply-To: <8ivbc.141601$cx5.89434@fed1read04>
References: <Unqbc.131025$cx5.57643@fed1read04>
	<b5rbc.132699$cx5.63133@fed1read04>
	<Xns94C0217D6BF1rzed@63.223.5.95>
	<2Msbc.136673$cx5.2385@fed1read04>
	<c4lsa1$ai6$1@news.service.uci.edu>
	<8ivbc.141601$cx5.89434@fed1read04>
Message-ID: <c4naid$nh2$1@news.service.uci.edu>

>>>>/* loop 2 */
>>>>ix = 2
>>>>for   \
>>>> item  \
>>>>   in      \
>>>>     blist  \
>>>>       :
>>>>         alist[ix] =    \
>>>>              alist[         \
>>>>         ix                     \
>>>>         ]

Certainly that is uglier, but at least there are backslashes saying 
"hey, something is happening here".  If this were Python, it would 
violate the "explicit is better than implicit" zen.

  - Josiah


From Vincent.Raaijmakers at ge.com  Mon Apr  5 16:39:30 2004
From: Vincent.Raaijmakers at ge.com (Raaijmakers, Vincent (GE Infrastructure))
Date: Mon, 5 Apr 2004 15:39:30 -0500
Subject: import question
Message-ID: <971323274247EB44B9A01D0A3B424C8507FF1A55@FTWMLVEM02.e2k.ad.ge.com>

Question:
my src path looks like this:
src\root\sub1
src\root\sub2

My main code is in root, lets say main.py and there is also a lib.py.
In sub1 there if foo1.py and sub2 foo2.py

Sorry for the long introduction...please don't stop reading... :-(

In both sub1 and sub2 there is an empty __init__.py for making them a package.
Ok the problem:

this works fine:

main.py
from sub1 import foo1
from sub1 import foo2

However, in foo1 and foo2 I have this line "import lib".

So lib.py is not in the same path as foo1.py and foo2.py, it seems to find lib.py in a higher path. 
(Reason for this is the import from main , which has lib.py in the same path?)

However, if I'm in the subfolders sub1 or sub2, and I run foo1.py or foo2.py standalone, they can't find lib.py. Yeah of course.

So, how to avoid this? How can I refer back to a module higher in the "hierarchical" path.
Up is so easy.. just say import foo.foo2.foo3. But up, what is the correct way of doing that?
Something to put in __init__.py, like sys.path.apppend('..')? Looks ugly to me....

Or, the way how I share lib for both files is wrong, please let me know.
Anyway, I need this behavior because of my unittest structure.

Thanks,
Vincent



From dkuhlman at rexx.com  Fri Apr 23 12:18:51 2004
From: dkuhlman at rexx.com (Dave Kuhlman)
Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2004 09:18:51 -0700
Subject: AOP use cases
References: <84fc4588.0404140106.3fa0c55@posting.google.com>
	<slrnc7q1ss.1aa.alf@largo.fayauffre.org>
	<cb035744.0404141130.170f51c4@posting.google.com>
	<slrnc7sgat.vp.alf@largo.fayauffre.org>
	<cb035744.0404160442.2f0b1661@posting.google.com>
	<0pydnSB4WYuieuLdRVn-hQ@powergate.ca>
	<tyfbrlkv3ae.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
	<XYmdnVLB9rjbARrdRVn-vg@powergate.ca>
	<tyf7jw8utoo.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
	<c68fj5$7bt$1@news1.wdf.sap-ag.de> <4087D662.6010209@yahoo.com>
	<c6b05h$9om7g$1@ID-88904.news.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <c6bfl4$9vb1j$1@ID-139865.news.uni-berlin.de>

Michael Walter wrote:

> Bryan wrote:
>>>
>>> Those of you using XML might want to visualize the program as a
>>> DOM tree and
>>> AOP as applying a XSLT stylesheet. (Now visualize applying
>>> several different
>>> stylesheets in arbitrary order)
>>>
>>>
>>> Daniel
>>>
>> 
>> 
>> thank you for this explanation... it's the best explanation i've
>> heard yet and now i have a grasp and can visualize what AOP is.
>> 
>> bryan
> 
> That sounds like a description of (CL/Scheme-style) macros :)

So, arbitrarily complex transformations on the source code with
the intent of hiding the intension of the source code are good,
right?

I wish I could say something to satirize this.  But, the post
about XML/XSLT seems satirical enough.

Dave

-- 
Dave Kuhlman
http://www.rexx.com/~dkuhlman


From tjreedy at udel.edu  Fri Apr  9 13:57:26 2004
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Fri, 9 Apr 2004 13:57:26 -0400
Subject: maximum length of a list & tuple
References: <c54lq3$2pe1sf$1@ID-202776.news.uni-berlin.de><bvednZaKK7OybejdRVn-iQ@centurytel.net>
	<c55okv$2o3eql$1@ID-202776.news.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <c56o63$m30$1@sea.gmane.org>


"Lupe" <luis_ at iname.com> wrote in message
news:c55okv$2o3eql$1 at ID-202776.news.uni-berlin.de...
> I just would like to know if there is any limit to a list or tuple.

Theoretically no, practically yes.  For computer implementations, one limit
is max int (usually 2billion+).  The other, which usually kicks in first,
is RAM memory.

If you nest v e r y deeply, you may also run into a compiler limit or stack
overflow.  As an experiment, I tried

t=()
for i in range(100000): t = (t,) # runs fine

print t
...
MemoryError: stack overflow

Feel free to experiment on your own system.

Terry J. Reedy






From cpl.19.ghum at spamgourmet.com  Sat Apr 10 04:31:32 2004
From: cpl.19.ghum at spamgourmet.com (Harald Massa)
Date: Sat, 10 Apr 2004 10:31:32 +0200
Subject: Wrapper round x86 Assembler
References: <8089854e.0404082353.7bf163a2@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <Xns94C76B1312123cpl19ghumspamgourmet@62.153.159.134>

 
> what about a wrapper to an assembler (presumably for x86 assembly !)
> I just wrote some code doing binary operations which would have been
> about a zillion times faster in a few lines of assembly code.

import psyco
psyco.full()

psyco will automagically and transparently translate python to X86 assembly 
where it is usefull.

And psyco is Open Source, so you can dig HOW Dr. Armin Rigo implemented the 
"insert assembler code". 

Probably there is allready a solution within the psyco source.

Harald


From webmaster at privatevoyeur.com  Tue Apr 20 23:20:27 2004
From: webmaster at privatevoyeur.com (Webmaster)
Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 23:20:27 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Your product
In-Reply-To: <200404210320.i3L3JvcS086999@ferguson.internal.realitychecknetwork.com>
References: <200404210320.i3L3JvcS086999@ferguson.internal.realitychecknetwork.com>
Message-ID: <200404210320.i3L3KRa2087058@ferguson.internal.realitychecknetwork.com>

Your mail to: webmaster at privatevoyeur.com has been rejected because it contains an illegal email attachment.
It was NOT received. Rule#2



From dmq at gain.com  Fri Apr 30 12:47:05 2004
From: dmq at gain.com (David MacQuigg)
Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2004 09:47:05 -0700
Subject: Unification of Methods and Functions
Message-ID: <ies4909uhi4okgfao9frqnnmsarqqjcpsg@4ax.com>

I'm not getting any feedback on the most important benefit in my
proposed "Ideas for Python 3" thread - the unification of methods and
functions.  Perhaps it was buried among too many other less important
changes, so in this thread I would like to focus on that issue alone.

I have edited the Proposed Syntax example below to take out the
changes unecessary to this discussion.  I left in the change of
"instance variable" syntax ( self.sound --> .sound ) because that is
necessary for the unification of all method forms.  ( Compare the
forms of the 'show' and 'talk' methods below.)

I believe these changes in syntax will make teaching OOP in Python
much easier.  See "Prototypes.doc" at
http://ece.arizona.edu/~edatools/Python/ The first eight pages are a
basic, but complete presentation of the new OOP syntax.  I expect this
to expand to about 30 pages with more examples and exercises.  This
compares to about 60 pages in Learning Python 2nd ed.

If we measure complexity by the number of pages needed for a "textbook
explanation" of OOP, then I believe the new syntax has some real
benefits. At this point in the learning process, students already know
functions, modules, and global variables.  The concept of using a
global variable __self__ is no surprise at all.  The only thing new in
a class, compared to a module, is the instance variables, and they can
be explained in one paragraph.  All methods look just like normal
functions.  There is no need to explain "static methods" or any other
form of method.  In fact, I use the term "function" rather than
"method" to emphasize the similarity.

I'm especially interested in feedback from users who are now learning
or have recently learned Python.  I already know these changes seem
trivial to many experts.  I've also heard plenty from the people who
think Python is so complex that we need to start a whole new language
( www.prothon.org ).  I'm looking for a middle ground.  I believe it
is possible to adopt what is good about Prothon, and not lose ten
years of software and community development.

======= Syntax Examples =============

## Proposed Syntax:
class Cat(Feline):
    numCats = 0
    def __init__( n = "unknown", s = "Meow" ):
        Feline.__init__()
        Cat.numCats += 1
        .name  = n           # Set instance variables.
        .sound = s
    def show():              # Define a "static method".
        Feline.show()
        print "    Cats:", Cat.numCats
    def talk():
        print "My name is ...", .name
        print "I am a %s from %s" % (.genus, .home)
        Mammal.talk()      # Call an unbound function.
        print __self__     ### Diagnostic check.
      
cat1 = Cat()            # Create instance.
bf = cat1.talk          # Make a bound function.


## Equivalent Python:
class Cat(Feline):
    numCats = 0
    def __init__(self, n = "unknown", s = "Meow" ):
        Feline.__init__(self)
        Cat.numCats += 1
        self.name  = n
        self.sound = s
    def show():
        Feline.show()
        print "    Cats:", Cat.numCats
    show = staticmethod(show)
    def talk(self):
        print "My name is ...", self.name
        print "I am a %s from %s" % (self.genus, self.home)
        Mammal.talk(self)
        print self

cat1 = Cat()            # Create instance.
bf = cat1.talk          # Make a bound function.

========= End of Examples =======

Thanks for your help.

-- Dave



From rogerb at rogerbinns.com  Sat Apr 24 05:53:30 2004
From: rogerb at rogerbinns.com (Roger Binns)
Date: Sat, 24 Apr 2004 02:53:30 -0700
Subject: deleting items within a for loop - mutable indices
References: <4089cb21$1_2@mk-nntp-2.news.uk.tiscali.com>
Message-ID: <p1qpl1-70m.ln1@home.rogerbinns.com>

SnuSnu wrote:
> are deleted first), but this is not very elegant or quick:

Here is a list comprehension that makes a new list
without the deletion_list items.  It does have the virtue
of being a one liner :-)

newx=[x[i] for i in range(len(x)) if i not in deletion_list]

You will need to do timings to see what method is actually
the fastest.  Don't forget to do so with list sizes the
same as you expect to be using in your real program.  Search
archives for this group for 'timeit' to see examples of
how to do timings.

(I think that the size of the deletion_list as a proportion
of the original list is what best determines the relative
speeds of the various methods available).

Roger




From jcarlson at uci.edu  Sun Apr 18 18:08:26 2004
From: jcarlson at uci.edu (Josiah Carlson)
Date: Sun, 18 Apr 2004 15:08:26 -0700
Subject: module not callable - why not?
In-Reply-To: <8ef9bea6.0404180823.7a3bc189@posting.google.com>
References: <c56jph$rrk$05$1@news.t-online.com>
	<107dras2heahcb6@news.supernews.com>
	<mailman.491.1081538569.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<8ef9bea6.0404122025.36efc84e@posting.google.com>
	<c5tef0$5hf$1@news.service.uci.edu>
	<7xsmf1fxd9.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<8ef9bea6.0404180823.7a3bc189@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <c5uufg$lig$1@news.service.uci.edu>

> Look, here is a partial list of the symptoms of the illness of using
> class-and-module-based OOP:
> 
> (a) You need metaclasses. You have special syntax for usage of
> metaclasses: you need to use the __metaclass__ name tag, in specific
> places.

I've never used metaclasses, and don't forsee a need for them in 
development I'll be undertaking any time in the near (or far) future. 
Standard inheritance works for me and a vast majority of users out there.

In various cases, PEP 318 (decorator syntax) seems to alleviate many 
people's needs for metaclasses and the magic behind them.


> (b) Singletons become a "design pattern", since classes usually cannot
> be used as instances directly.

Singletons aren't nearly as prevalent as you seem to believe.  Take a 
peek in the standard library, and you'll find a large body of good code 
that has chosen not to use the "singleton design pattern".  Truth be 
told, I've used singletons before, but only once.


> (c) You have to create staticmethod and/or classmethod to make a class
> functional.

Please express what you mean by "functional".  I believe you mean...

class blah:
     def __call__(cls):
         print cls
     __call__ = classmethod(call)

blah(object) #should print "<type 'object'>"


In this situation, I believe that a pure module-level function is 
preferable,

def blah(cls):
     print cls


If I have misinterpreted what you mean by 'functional', please correct me.


> (d) Modules can't have properties, nor are callable.

Yeah, I don't see a problem with this.  However, if you feel really 
strongly about it, with a little work, you can create a pseduo-module 
with everything your heart desires.  Of course it'll be ugly, and pretty 
much a hack, but it can be done (without metaclasses).

The real trick is to understand the difference between "is a" and "has 
a" relations.

Modules /are/ namespaces.  They do not have __call__ semantics because 
namespaces shouldn't be called.  Things /inside/ namespaces should be 
called.  Honestly, I'd like to hear an example of a language where 
namespaces are callable

Classes /have/ namespaces.  To handle the encapsulation of data and 
functions into a single passable object, it is convenient for them to 
have namespaces.  The explicit requirement to give a name to the 
instance being implicitly passed (usually 'self'), is to remind users 
"hey, I'm an instance method".  Note that you can call 'self' anything 
you want, it is merely convention, in a similar fashion to using 'cls' 
for classmethods.


> (e) You often need to create three objects: module, class, instance,
> to do the job of one single object. Hence you often see usage of the
> same name for all three of them, weird as it may seem.

I've seen examples of a module and class having the same name, but I 
believe that with the exception of singletons (which are rare in the 
code that I've seen), naming an instance the same as a module or class 
where it came from, is generally frowned upon due to the shadowing of 
the original module/class name.

I also believe that the general consensus for future standard library 
modules is to name classes different from the module that contains them.


> (f) Module inheritance ('import' for containment, 'from ... import'
> for inheritance) differs in syntax with class inheritance ('class
> A(B):')

I wouldn't call import statements inheritance, I would call it loading 
an external module and binding the results to a name.

Just because you can emulate object inheritance with modules, doesn't 
mean it should be done.  In fact, such things are frowned upon in Python.

Take for example the following import statement...
from module import *

The above is frowned upon by Guido and basically everyone else in the 
Python community because it pollutes namespace.

However...
class foo(goo):
    pass

...is perfectly acceptable.  Why?  Because fewer people have issues with 
class inheritance than with module imports.  I don't know why, I just 
try to answer questions like "I'm importing A from B and importing B 
from A, why doesn't it work?" in a way they'll understand.


> (g) Module functions and class methods become two distinct types of
> objects.

Yeah, and it allows functions to exist without being bound to a class or 
an instance.  Ahh, now I know, you're coming from a Java background!

See, in many other languages (C, C++, Lisp, Pascal, SML, Prolog, etc.), 
functions are not required to be bound to classes or class instances. 
Personally, I like the flexibility, and can be found to fill entire 
modules with nothing but functions.  In Java, I would have to make them 
static methods on some object, a fairly foolish (if arbitrary) requirement.


> (h) In module-level functions, you need to use the 'global' statement
> to access module-level attributes. In class (instance) methods, you
> use the 'self' parameter to access instance attributes. (In class'
> classmethods, you use 'cls'.) (Notice that there is a big difference
> between saying "class method" and "classmethod".)

You don't need to use the names 'self' or 'cls' if you don't want to, 
they are just standard convention.  It helps the programmer understand 
that there may be a difference in terms of functionality.

You should also realize that generally, handling module-level attributes 
from within the module, via global, is generally frowned upon.  Again, 
if you feel strongly about it, you are free to destroy the meaning of 
your application by doing something like the following...

class self(object):
     #module-level self

class foo:
     def goo(self): pass
     def bar(self): pass
     bar = classmethod(bar)
     def baz(self): pass
     baz = staticmethod(baz)


Again, the names are different so that there is a signal to the 
programmer that something different may be happening with this 
particular object.


> In prototype-based OOP, you don't have any of these problems. You can
> see that the usage of modules and classes introduces a whole lot of
> repeated/redundant concepts and/or inconsistencies. That's the price
> you pay. It's just an unfortunate historical development that lead us
> to where we are today.

I don't believe that Python is going the way of prototype-based OOP any 
time soon (if ever).  If you are so prototype-fixated (goodness, you 
certainly seem to be), Prothon has prototypes, and I'm sure they will be 
delighted to have you.


  - Josiah


From Felix.Wiemann at gmx.net  Tue Apr 13 18:53:56 2004
From: Felix.Wiemann at gmx.net (Felix Wiemann)
Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2004 00:53:56 +0200
Subject: Error with trace.py
Message-ID: <87brlvcwvv.fsf@news2.ososo.de>

$ cat test.py
print "Hello World!"
if 0:
    print "Never executed."
if 1:
    print "Hi."

$ python test.py
Hello World!
Hi.

$ python /usr/lib/python2.3/trace.py --count test.py
Hello World!
Hi.
trace: Could not open '/usr/lib/python2.3/threading.cover' for writing: [Errno 13] Permission denied: '/usr/lib/python2.3/threading.cover'- skipping
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "/usr/lib/python2.3/trace.py", line 690, in ?
    main()
  File "/usr/lib/python2.3/trace.py", line 687, in main
    results.write_results(missing, summary=summary, coverdir=coverdir)
  File "/usr/lib/python2.3/trace.py", line 271, in write_results
    lnotab, count)
TypeError: unpack non-sequence

Why doesn't it work?

By the way, after running trace.py, there is a file test.cover in the
directory:

$ cat test.cover 
    1: print "Hello World!"
       if 0:
           print "Never executed."
    1: if 1:
    1:     print "Hi."

-- 
http://www.ososo.de/


From davidf at sjsoft.com  Fri Apr 23 02:27:22 2004
From: davidf at sjsoft.com (David Fraser)
Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2004 08:27:22 +0200
Subject: Multi-threaded printing and UIErrors in Windows
In-Reply-To: <10nll1-rt5.ln1@home.rogerbinns.com>
References: <10nll1-rt5.ln1@home.rogerbinns.com>
Message-ID: <c6acl7$7u8$1@ctb-nnrp2.saix.net>

Roger Binns wrote:
> My program has a random smattering of print statements
> scattered throughout that are mainly a debugging aid.
> They are typically things like this:
> 
>     print "entering key mode"
> 
> The code is multithreaded, and the printing typically
> happens in both the main thread and a worker thread
> doing serial port IO.  The problem I am experiencing
> when the program is packaged up with py2exe is that
> exceptions happen:
> 
>   IOError: [Errno 9] Bad file descriptor
> 
> This can happen in either thread.  Why is this
> happening?  It doesn't happen on Linux or Mac,
> and hasn't happened when not using py2exe.
> 
> Python 2.3, wxPython 2.4, py2exe 0.5 (and the
> previous version).
> 
> Roger
> 
> 
sys.stdout is not threadsafe - try wrapping each call with a mutext and 
see if that fixes it...


From jonas at jonasgalvez.com  Wed Apr 21 13:09:28 2004
From: jonas at jonasgalvez.com (Jonas Galvez)
Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2004 14:09:28 -0300
Subject: Stupid Regex Question
References: <c667m3$6up$1@sea.gmane.org> <c668b5$8s9$1@sea.gmane.org>
	<c669ct$bsg$1@sea.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <c669vp$dh1$1@sea.gmane.org>

But now I'm puzzled. What is that '?' doing, exactly?

Could you point me any references?

Thanks again,




=-
Jonas Galvez
jonasgalvez.com/blog
macromedia.com/go/team



> > [Fredrik Lundh]
> > print re.findall("<tag>(.*?)</tag>", str)
>
> WOW! Thanks a bunch (again).
>
> Hehe, I had already written the following:
>
> def getIndices(str, base):
>     indices = []
>     offset = 0
>     while True:
>         i = base.find(str, offset)
>         if i == -1: break
>         indices.append(i)
>         offset = i+1
>     return indices
>
> def getContent(a, b, str):
>     content = []
>     startIndices = getIndices(a, str)
>     endIndices = getIndices(b, str)
>     startSlice = len(a)
>     def add(s, e):
>         content.append(str[s+startSlice:e])
>     map(add, startIndices, endIndices)
>     return content
>
> Ouch.
>
>
>
>
>
> =-
> Jonas Galvez
> jonasgalvez.com/blog
> macromedia.com/go/team







From eldiener at earthlink.net  Tue Apr 27 20:30:32 2004
From: eldiener at earthlink.net (Edward Diener)
Date: Wed, 28 Apr 2004 00:30:32 GMT
Subject: Debugging a python module as a form's action handler
Message-ID: <IWCjc.5098$g31.2262@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net>

I am using Python in a CGI web application and need to be able to debug a
Python module as a form handler. Is there a way to do this so that I can
step through my module while it is handling the form's data ?

I couldn't find much information at all in either IDLE or PythonWin about
using the IDE's for debugging, so I thought I would ask here.




From grante at visi.com  Fri Apr 30 22:45:15 2004
From: grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards)
Date: 01 May 2004 02:45:15 GMT
Subject: calling functions at the same time
References: <c6udda$qpv$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu>
	<1095ijdb5jotvf1@corp.supernews.com>
	<c6unuq$d0f$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu>
Message-ID: <40930f3a$0$17260$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>

In article <c6unuq$d0f$1 at solaris.cc.vt.edu>, Bart Nessux wrote:

> I need to ping 4 hosts at exactly the same time from the  same machine

That simply can't be done.

> (I plan to timestamp the pings) to test and measure network
> conditions over different routes to different hosts. Putting
> all the ping hosts in a list and looping through it is not a
> fair or balanced way to do this because of the time
> differences.

Exactly how many packets do you think are allowed on the wire
at once with Ethernet??

> I mean it to mean: at the *exact* same time... concurrently. Like runners
> starting a race together.

Not physically possible unless you've got 4 cpus with, 4
separate PCI buses, 4 Ethernet boards on 4 different Ethernet
segments, and some very special HW/SW to keep things
synchronized.

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow!  I'm ANN LANDERS!! I
                                  at               can SHOPLIFT!!
                               visi.com            


From p_s_oberoi at hotmail.com  Mon Apr 26 16:50:22 2004
From: p_s_oberoi at hotmail.com (Paramjit Oberoi)
Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2004 15:50:22 -0500
Subject: Is Perl *that* good? (was: How's ruby compare to it older
	brother python)
References: <c6ich0$c5mee$1@ID-205437.news.uni-berlin.de>
	<iL3jc.232$Yc.2330@news4.e.nsc.no>
	<108q51j4dscn7dc@corp.supernews.com>
	<knbjc.267$id.3998@news2.e.nsc.no>
Message-ID: <pan.2004.04.26.20.50.19.843510@hotmail.com>

>>>getting dynamic HTML pages up and running quickly. Perl is great for
>>>its string-handling abilities. (On my Web pages, I actually call a
>>>Perl script from PHP precisely for this reason.)

I have always felt that just like Jason Orendorff's path.py module makes
working with paths so incredibly convenient, a similarly well-designed
regex.py might make text processing as easy in python as it is in perl.

Unfortunately I don't deal enough with regexes to have the motivation to
actually put this idea into practice.  Maybe someone who does can take a
shot at it?

-param


From tjreedy at udel.edu  Wed Apr 21 17:42:21 2004
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2004 17:42:21 -0400
Subject: NVidia Gelato has Python binding
Message-ID: <c66prm$j01$1@sea.gmane.org>

>From http://film.nvidia.com/page/gelato.html :

Gelato is NVIDIA's new professional image rendering software, running on
top of its new Quadro FX graphics hardware.  In addition to its C++ API,

"A Python binding also ships with Gelato, allowing users to script input,
automatically generating geometries and shading instead of explicitly
specifying them in advance. "

This is the only such binding mentioned.  They apparently feel that Python
is well enough known that no explanatory phrase is needed.

TJR








From nicolas.lehuen at thecrmcompany.com  Thu Apr 22 04:46:43 2004
From: nicolas.lehuen at thecrmcompany.com (Nicolas Lehuen)
Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2004 10:46:43 +0200
Subject: Python 2.3.3 super() behaviour
References: <40863bd7$0$25528$afc38c87@news.easynet.fr>
	<95aa1afa.0404210729.18f6de22@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <40878673$0$25006$afc38c87@news.easynet.fr>

Duh, so it was a FAQ...

What's interesting in your post is the fact that super is in fact a class
(not a builtin function), and that you can inherit from it to get the
expected behaviour :

http://groups.google.it/groups?hl=it&lr=&ie=UTF-8&threadm=95aa1afa.0402172242.17334743%40posting.google.com&rnum=1&prev=/groups%3Fhl%3Dit%26lr%3D%26ie%3DISO-8859-1%26q%3Dsimionato%2Bsuper%26btnG%3DCerca%26meta%3Dgroup%253Dcomp.lang.python

Maybe this should be the default behaviour ?

Regards,
Nicolas

"Michele Simionato" <michele.simionato at poste.it> a ?crit dans le message de
news:95aa1afa.0404210729.18f6de22 at posting.google.com...
> "Nicolas Lehuen" <nicolas.lehuen at thecrmcompany.com> wrote in message
news:<40863bd7$0$25528$afc38c87 at news.easynet.fr>...
> > Hi,
> >
> > I hope this is not a FAQ, but I have trouble understanding the behaviour
of
> > the super() built-in function.
>
> Maybe this thread on super will interest you:
>
>
http://groups.google.it/groups?hl=it&lr=&ie=UTF-8&threadm=95aa1afa.0402172242.17334743%40posting.google.com&rnum=1&prev=/groups%3Fhl%3Dit%26lr%3D%26ie%3DISO-8859-1%26q%3Dsimionato%2Bsuper%26btnG%3DCerca%26meta%3Dgroup%253Dcomp.lang.python.*
>
>
>     Michele Simionato




From rogerb at rogerbinns.com  Thu Apr 29 01:30:21 2004
From: rogerb at rogerbinns.com (Roger Binns)
Date: Wed, 28 Apr 2004 22:30:21 -0700
Subject: Tkinter and XML-RPC
References: <0jZjc.65$pw1.70887@news.uswest.net>
Message-ID: <tfg6m1-dk2.ln1@home.rogerbinns.com>

Mark Bauman wrote:
> I'm new to Python (C/C++/Delphi background), and so far I'm impressed with
> the language, libraries and community. Anyway, I've just started poking
> around with Tkinter and I'm wondering if anyone has any tips or caveats on
> incorporating an XML-RPC client and server inside a Tkinter app. I have an
> application in mind that would primarily be dealing with short string
> messages and the occasional jpeg, so I'm wondering about blocking and
> threading issues within the confines of the GUI. I'm just starting to dig
> into the detailed docs on Tkinter and the XLM-RPC library, but I thought I
> would ask since I'm sure that some folks have been there, done that.

The main gotcha to worry about is if you will ever need security
for the XML-RPC.  It is fairly easy to add password authentication.
It is however very difficult to tunnel it inside SSL unless you
don't care about there being one connection per request (and a
TCP establishment overhead with a SSL establishment as well).

I actually ended up using Paramiko, a Python implementation of
SSH.

Roger




From amireallyfat at yahoo.com.au  Fri Apr  9 23:39:43 2004
From: amireallyfat at yahoo.com.au (mr_vocab)
Date: Sat, 10 Apr 2004 13:39:43 +1000
Subject: program distribution
References: <4075f5bb_1@news.iprimus.com.au>
	<RoqdnaFM0KTPJevdRVn-gQ@comcast.com>
Message-ID: <40776c5e$1_1@news.iprimus.com.au>

hi
sorry i am using windows but great thanks for your help :)


"Larry Bates" <lbates at swamisoft.com> wrote in message
news:RoqdnaFM0KTPJevdRVn-gQ at comcast.com...
> Nathan,
>
> You didn't mention your platform.  So
> I'm going to give you instructions for
> Windows.
>
> You will need to additional programs.
>
> 1) py2exe - This will run your program
> through a process that gathers up all you
> imported modules and creates a .EXE file
> and supporting .pyd and .dll files.  This
> can be distributed to computers that do
> NOT have Python installed.
>
> http://starship.python.net/crew/theller/py2exe/
>
> 2) Some installer.  I personally like
> Inno.  You provide Inno with a list of
> files that should be installed (both
> program and data files) and it creates
> one big "setup.exe" file that can be
> distributed.
>
> http://www.jrsoftware.org/isinfo.php
>
> If your platform is Linux take a look at
> McMillan Installer.  This page seems to
> be down at this time:
>
> http://www.mcmillan-inc.com/install1.html
>
>
> Regards,
> Larry Bates
> Syscon, Inc.
>
> "mr_vocab" <amireallyfat at yahoo.com.au> wrote in message
> news:4075f5bb_1 at news.iprimus.com.au...
> > Hi im new to  python but have made a few applications how can i save
them
> > and get the to run sort of like an application
> >
> > thanks
> >
> > Nathan
> >
> >
>
>




From noemail at noemail4u.com  Mon Apr 26 08:03:23 2004
From: noemail at noemail4u.com (Daniel 'Dang' Griffith)
Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2004 12:03:23 GMT
Subject: saving interpreter source?
References: <pan.2004.04.21.16.36.47.928286@asdf.asdf>
Message-ID: <b111e723f14e406ae5b5ac5f303a334d@news.teranews.com>

On Wed, 21 Apr 2004 10:36:48 -0600, Garett <asdf at asdf.asdf> wrote:

>Hello, I would like to be able to save source typed into the interpreter
>to a file. Kind of like marshal, but I would like to have the file contain
>the source so I can edit it later. Something like inspect.getsource() but
>for source typed into the interpreter, not imported from a module. Is this
>possible? Any ideas are greatly appreciated. -Garett

Look into IPython.  It's "An enhanced Interactive Python shell", and
includes a "save" command, where you can even specify which lines you
want saved.  http://ipython.scipy.org/
    --dang


From nuffsaid at phreaker.net  Wed Apr 28 18:47:56 2004
From: nuffsaid at phreaker.net (Nuff Said)
Date: Thu, 29 Apr 2004 00:47:56 +0200
Subject: Scintilla/SciTE - Python folding
Message-ID: <pan.2004.04.28.22.47.55.49097@phreaker.net>

Question:

Is there a way to unfold a Python class *without* unfolding
all its methods etc. so that you can get a quick overview
of the class? 

Details:

I normally open a file either with 'fold.on.open=1' set in
the user's options file resp. I use 'toggle all folds' from
the menu to fold everything in an unfolded file. 
But then, when I  unfold e.g. a class, everything inside the 
class gets unfolded, too. What I would need is something like 
'unfold one level only'. Thought, that maybe the keystroke 
'Ctrl-Keypad*' was meant for that, but it doesn't work that way.

I am using Scintilla/SciTE 1.59 (Linux / compiled from the 
sources).

Thanks in advance for your answers! Nuff.



From michaelmossey at yahoo.com  Thu Apr  8 18:13:11 2004
From: michaelmossey at yahoo.com (Michael Mossey)
Date: 8 Apr 2004 15:13:11 -0700
Subject: Intermittant slow startup
References: <9badaf0.0404051033.9fec2db@posting.google.com>
	<4071A86D.97CA6CAE@alcyone.com>
	<9badaf0.0404051445.5b26b945@posting.google.com>
	<m3fzbesmcx.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <9badaf0.0404081413.5cc83413@posting.google.com>

Michael Hudson <mwh at python.net> wrote in message news:<m3fzbesmcx.fsf at pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk>...
> michaelmossey at yahoo.com (Michael Mossey) writes:
> 
> > Erik Max Francis <max at alcyone.com> wrote in message news:<4071A86D.97CA6CAE at alcyone.com>...
> > > Michael Mossey wrote:
> > > 
> > > > Runnng python 2.2 on HP-UX, I get intermittant slow startup.
> > > > Sometimes python starts up in a small fraction of a second, and
> > > > sometimes takes 3-5 seconds.  This applies to any script I run, or
> > > > just typing 'python' at the prompt.
> > > > 
> > > > I also observed something similar on Linux.
> > > > 
> > > > Any ideas what would cause *intermittant* slow startup?
> > > 
> > > Caching?  Is it a long time between invocations that it takes a long
> > > time to start up?
> > 
> > It is quite intermittant without much of a pattern I can see.  One
> > thing that is definitely true is that if I start up python several
> > times in a row one right after the other, some can be slow and some
> > fast.  I just observed it start fast twice, then start slow.  I don't
> > remember if it ever does the other way around but I think it does.
> 
> Does HP-UX have a version of strace/truss/ktrace?
> 
> Cheers,
> mwh

Yes, it has strace.  What do I do with that?

-Mike


From martin at v.loewis.de  Thu Apr  8 00:56:53 2004
From: martin at v.loewis.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?=22Martin_v=2E_L=F6wis=22?=)
Date: Thu, 08 Apr 2004 06:56:53 +0200
Subject: When to use PyMem_Malloc()?
In-Reply-To: <c52k7m$2mq8j6$1@ID-180326.news.uni-berlin.de>
References: <c52k7m$2mq8j6$1@ID-180326.news.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <c52m2k$j8c$03$2@news.t-online.com>

Jon Perez wrote:
> Are there any disadvantages to using PyMem_Malloc() such that
> there are times when one would prefer to use a plain malloc()?

Certainly. For example, you may have source code which is used
in different projects, so changing the malloc calls may not be
feasible. Or, you may use API function of other libraries that
require you to use malloc(), as they invoke free() themselves.

Regards,
Martin



From adalke at mindspring.com  Mon Apr 12 16:45:31 2004
From: adalke at mindspring.com (Andrew Dalke)
Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2004 20:45:31 GMT
Subject: Easy question on error catching
References: <Syqec.51062$Vo.646@fed1read03> <407A35E8.C669206D@alcyone.com>
Message-ID: <LdDec.7096$A_4.3067@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>

Erik Max Francis:
> What you wrote will work, but catching a ValueError (except ValueError:
> ...) is a better solution.  Especially in dynamically typed languages
> like Python, it's a good idea to catch the most restrictive error you
> think you need, and then expand the net if it's required.

To elaborate, suppose you press control-C inside of the try
block.  That the signal for Python to stop what it's doing.  Python
converts that into an exception.  If nothing catches it then
the top-level reports the normal exception and traceback.

If you have a bare "except:" then in addition to telling Python
to ignore the ValueError when the string doesn't contain an
integer, you're also telling Python to ignore control-C, out-of-
memory exceptions and a few others.

I've actually had something like this happen to me
 try:
  v = flaot(s)
 except:
  v = 0.0

See the misspelling?  It raised a NameError which was caught
by the bare except: so for every case I was setting v to 0.0.

                    Andrew
                    dalke at dalkescientific.com




From tzot at sil-tec.gr  Mon Apr 19 18:23:43 2004
From: tzot at sil-tec.gr (Christos TZOTZIOY Georgiou)
Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 01:23:43 +0300
Subject: Static Modules...
References: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0404171006210.27811-100000@e5-05.ee.ualberta.ca>
	<Xns94CECB9B070C3cliechtigmxnet@62.2.16.4>
	<Pine.LNX.4.44.0404171238540.29550-100000@e5-05.ee.ualberta.ca>
	<FqqdncyMu53JHBzdRVn-vg@powergate.ca>
Message-ID: <csj8801dtl9a4rniqol9aqkdln3o587een@4ax.com>

On Sat, 17 Apr 2004 15:11:16 -0400, rumours say that Peter Hansen
<peter at engcorp.com> might have written:

>After all, what if I had a module called, perhaps inappropriately,
>"launch" and it triggered the launch of my personal anti-aircraft
>missile when imported?  (Yes, bad style too, but I wrote this
>control code long ago before I learned good style. ;-)  Now in
>one of my other modules, I have a subtle bug** which involves an
>object named, perhaps unsurprisingly for this example, "launch".

Peter, don't worry.  There ain't no such thing as a free launch.
-- 
TZOTZIOY, I speak England very best,
Ils sont fous ces Redmontains! --Harddix


From jeremy at jdyallop.freeserve.co.uk  Fri Apr 30 07:23:42 2004
From: jeremy at jdyallop.freeserve.co.uk (Jeremy Yallop)
Date: 30 Apr 2004 11:23:42 GMT
Subject: operator double() surprise in cxx
References: <mailman.145.1083293891.25742.python-list@python.org>
	<pan.2004.04.30.05.54.47.953852@ifrance.com>
	<7ivfjh988v.fsf@enark.csis.hku.hk>
Message-ID: <slrnc94dpu.s4p.jeremy@kaje.cl.cam.ac.uk>

Isaac To wrote:
>>>>>> "Beno?t" == Beno?t Dejean <bnetNOSPAM at ifrance.com> writes:
> 
>     Beno?t> Le Thu, 29 Apr 2004 21:35:51 -0500, John Hunter a ?crit?:
>     >>  I am using pycxx 5.2.2 to generate some extension code.  I want to
>     >> extract some doubles from some python sequences
>     >> 
>     >> When I do
>     >> 
>     >> double l( Py::Float(rect[0]) ); double b( Py::Float(rect[1]) );
> 
>     Beno?t> everything that looks/tastes/sounds like a function declaration
>     Beno?t> is (even with parameters.
> 
> Is it really a bug in g++?  

No.

> No matter how I look at
> 
>   Py::Float(rect[0])
> 
> it does not look like a type "Py::Float*" that is indicated by the error
> message.

As a declaration, it's a zero-length array of Py::Float, with a
parenthesized declarator, i.e. the same as 

    Py::Float rect[0];

As a parameter declaration, it's equivalent to

    Py::Float *rect;

because of the way C++ handles arrays.

Jeremy.


From getway at pelins.com  Mon Apr 26 03:54:44 2004
From: getway at pelins.com (getway at pelins.com)
Date: 26 Apr 2004 09:54:44 +0200
Subject: This is an alert from eSafe
Message-ID: <PELNTue6v9rrbkmRoFK00004bda@pelnt.peltuors.co.il>



***  This is a massege from E-Safe server in Peltours    ***
***  Mail-server detected a hostile content in this email. ***


Time: 10:05:00 04/26/04
Scan result: Mail modified to remove malicious content
Protocol: SMTP in
File Name / Mail Subject: C:\Program Files\eSafe\eSafeCR\SPOOL\1082876229
Source: python-list at python.org
Destination: zvika at pelins.com
Details: application.zip\details.txt                                                                     .pif   Infected with Win32.Netsky.q (Non-Removable), Blocked 



From michele.simionato at poste.it  Wed Apr 28 05:20:06 2004
From: michele.simionato at poste.it (Michele Simionato)
Date: 28 Apr 2004 02:20:06 -0700
Subject: prototypes in Python [was: what is good in Prothon]
Message-ID: <95aa1afa.0404280120.30176ca9@posting.google.com>

So far, I have not installed Prothon, nor I have experience with Io, Self
or other prototype-based languages. Still, from the discussion on the 
mailing list, I have got the strong impression that you do not actually
need to fork Python in order to implement prototypes. It seems to me
that Python metaclasses + descriptors are more than powerful enough to 
implementing prototypes in pure Python.

I wrote a module that implements part of what David MacQuigg discussed in
http://apache.ece.arizona.edu/~edatools/Python/Prototypes.htm in few lines 
of code (disclaimer: this is an horrible hack that changes Python semantics 
and makes "super" and "self" kinda of implicit reserved 
keywords, highly unpythonic). It requires Python 2.2+.
I have not read the whole David MacQuigg's document, nor I have done any 
serious testing of the module, nor I claim I do understand what prototypes 
are; also I guarantee there will be bugs and surprising behaviors, but
still I think they could be fixed if I was willing to spend more time
on the issue.

Here is an example of usage:

from prototype import Prototype # prototypes are implemented as classes

class Animal(Prototype):  
    numAnimals = 0
    home = "Earth"
    def __init__(): # no need to pass self around
        Animal.numAnimals += 1
    def show():  
        print "Animals:", self.numAnimals

class Feline(Animal):
    genus="Feline"
    def __init__(name,sound): # no need to pass self around
        super.__init__()
        self.name=name
        self.sound=sound
    def talk(): # no need to pass self around
        print "%s talking: %s!" % (self.genus,self.sound)
        
class Cat(Feline): # how to call the super prototype
    numCats = 0
    def __init__ ( n = "unknown", s = "Meow" ):
        super.__init__(n,s)
        Cat.numCats += 1
    def show():
        super.show()
        print "    Cats:", self.numCats
    def talk():
        print "My name is", self.name
        print "I am a %s from %s" % (self.genus, self.home)
        super.talk()
      
cat1 = Cat() # abuse of notation: makes a new prototype, not an instance

print cat1 # =>
# <class '__main__.Prototype:Cat'>

cat2 = Cat("Garfield")
cat2.home = "Tucson"

print cat2 # =>
# <class '__main__.Prototype:Cat'>

cat1.talk() # =>
# My name is unknown
# I am a Feline from Earth
# Feline talking: Meow!

cat2.talk()# =>
# My name is Garfield
# I am a Feline from Tucson
# Feline talking: Meow!

cat2.show() # =>
# Animals: 2
#    Cats: 2

I am not sure this does what prototype people wants, but still it is 
a nice example of how to abuse Python ;) Originally, I tried to use
"_" for "self" and "__" for "super", but with my fonts it was
difficult to distinguish between them. With a preprocessor one
could replace .name -> self.name and ..name -> super.name, but
I did no bother to do that. 

Here is the module (not at all optimized):

$ cat prototype.py
import sys
from types import FunctionType
from inspect import isfunction

class methodwrapper(object): # descriptor
    def __init__(self,func,cls):
        self.__func__=func
        self.__cls__=cls
    def __get__(self,none,cls):
        globs=sys.modules[cls.__module__].__dict__.copy()
        globs["self"]=cls
        globs["super"]=super(self.__cls__,cls)
        return FunctionType(
            self.__func__.func_code,
            globs,
            self.__func__.func_name,
            self.__func__.func_defaults,
            self.__func__.func_closure)

class _Prototype(type): # metaclass
    def __init__(cls,name,bases,dic):
        for k,v in dic.iteritems():
            if isfunction(v):
                setattr(cls,k,methodwrapper(v,cls))
        super(_Prototype,cls).__init__(name,bases,dic)
    def __call__(cls,*args,**kw):
        newcls = type("Prototype:%s" % cls.__name__,(cls,),
                      {"__module__": cls.__module__}) 
        newcls.__init__(*args,**kw)
        return newcls

class Prototype(object): # mother of all prototypes
    __metaclass__=_Prototype
    def __init__(*args,**kw):
        pass

#### END ####

                   Michele Simionato


From insert at spam.here  Wed Apr 28 01:16:12 2004
From: insert at spam.here (Doug Holton)
Date: Wed, 28 Apr 2004 00:16:12 -0500
Subject: Don't understand wxPython ids
In-Reply-To: <408f3061$0$17258$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
References: <408ed938$0$17263$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
	<BOEjc.12559$eZ5.4366@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>
	<408f3061$0$17258$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
Message-ID: <JdGdnRJTy4CBoxLdRVn-iQ@comcast.com>


>>I can only think of one reasn why they chose to use ids in the first 
>>place. Assigning many objects the same id allows you to use one EVT_* 
>>call for those objects. But is that really a useful feature? Who knows?
> 
> 
> That's about the only thing I could think of. The few
> situations where I'd have wanted to do someting like that I'd
> gladly put a for-loop iterating over a list of objects in
> exchange for being able to use single-line of code the other
> 90% of the time.

Right, there a couple of special cases to think of when designing event 
bindings for a gui toolkit.  One is where you want multiple controls to 
share the same event handler (like a button and a menu item that do the 
same thing).  Another case is allowing people to change event bindings 
"on the fly", after a window constructor has already been called and the 
window set up.

I proposed some changes similar to you, see this thread:
http://lists.wxwidgets.org/cgi-bin/ezmlm-cgi?11:sss:23979:200311:dcgnanikkojpgmpdpmio#b
but nothing came out of it.  I did code up an implementation for Wax 
(http://wiki.wxpython.org/index.cgi/Wax ), but I don't know if it was 
included.


From fredrik at pythonware.com  Fri Apr 16 14:46:30 2004
From: fredrik at pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2004 20:46:30 +0200
Subject: Initializing Python in Optimized mode from C++
References: <dd7b0c71.0404161034.3173e132@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <c5p9lj$t07$1@sea.gmane.org>

JT wrote:

> When embedding Python in C++, is there anyway to initialize the
> interpreter so that it runs in optimized mode, equivalent to
> specifying the -O flag when running the interpreter from the command
> line?

here's one way to do it:

    putenv("PYTHONOPTIMIZE=yes");
    ... initialize interpreter as usual ...

</F>






From eppstein at ics.uci.edu  Sat Apr  3 14:25:08 2004
From: eppstein at ics.uci.edu (David Eppstein)
Date: Sat, 03 Apr 2004 11:25:08 -0800
Subject: An attempt at guessing the encoding of a (non-unicode) string
References: <c1sq60t7af0lgs1ovilg6ds220dkc0inpd@4ax.com>
	<eppstein-8C467F.14490702042004@news.service.uci.edu>
	<106thmedmq162ce@news.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <eppstein-C2C74E.11250803042004@news.service.uci.edu>

In article <106thmedmq162ce at news.supernews.com>,
 "John Roth" <newsgroups at jhrothjr.com> wrote:

> "David Eppstein" <eppstein at ics.uci.edu> wrote in message
> news:eppstein-8C467F.14490702042004 at news.service.uci.edu...
> > I've been getting decent results by a much simpler approach:
> > count the number of characters for which the encoding produces a symbol
> > c for which c.isalpha() or c.isspace(), subtract a large penalty if
> > using the encoding leads to UnicodeDecodeError, and take the encoding
> > with the largest count.
> 
> Shouldn't that be isalphanum()? Or does your data not have
> very many numbers?

It's only important if your text has many code positions which produce a 
digit in one encoding and not in another, and which are hard to 
disambiguate using isalpha() alone.  I haven't encountered that 
situation.

-- 
David Eppstein                      http://www.ics.uci.edu/~eppstein/
Univ. of California, Irvine, School of Information & Computer Science


From python at quixs.com  Thu Apr 29 13:57:40 2004
From: python at quixs.com (Lars Heuer)
Date: Thu, 29 Apr 2004 19:57:40 +0200
Subject: uuid generator
In-Reply-To: <4090830B.8010903@attglobal.net>
References: <71djc.147368$Kc3.4878757@twister2.libero.it>
	<408DE4F3.7080804@magma-da.com> <4090830B.8010903@attglobal.net>
Message-ID: <1186734003.20040429195740@quixs.com>

Hi Marcello,

> Maybe there is already the library in Python 2.3

I believe the OSAFoundation has something like an UUID generator for
Python in C. http://osafoundation.org/

I'm afraid you've to download Chandler to get it.

HTH,
Lars




From jepler at unpythonic.net  Fri Apr 16 12:44:39 2004
From: jepler at unpythonic.net (Jeff Epler)
Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2004 11:44:39 -0500
Subject: a little math problem
In-Reply-To: <m2pta7c40a.fsf@mother.paradise.lost>
References: <m2pta7c40a.fsf@mother.paradise.lost>
Message-ID: <20040416164439.GD26865@unpythonic.net>

math.fmod might help

Jeff



From L.Leszczynski at aster.pl  Sat Apr 24 07:26:51 2004
From: L.Leszczynski at aster.pl (Leszek Leszczynski)
Date: Sat, 24 Apr 2004 13:26:51 +0200
Subject: Plone for Version Control
Message-ID: <c6dj71$1v5m$1@mamut.aster.pl>

Hello,

is it possible to add version control capabilities to Plone?

regards,
LL


From roy at panix.com  Sat Apr 10 23:05:29 2004
From: roy at panix.com (Roy Smith)
Date: Sat, 10 Apr 2004 23:05:29 -0400
Subject: why is python better than eg. smalltalk?? no one has any solid
	arguments! you should all go to church with all that religious talk!
References: <mailman.440.1081414295.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<c59l5o$2faa0i$1@ID-180326.news.uni-berlin.de>
	<c59lvb$mtm$1@nemesis.news.tpi.pl> <c5abbm$ko8$1@panix2.panix.com>
Message-ID: <roy-5C8DA0.23052910042004@reader1.panix.com>

aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz) wrote:
> I found my editor fifteen years ago.  Guess which it is.

My guess is emacs, in which case I've got 6 or 7 years on you :-)

> (The point being that there are only two editors still in regular use 
> that were available fifteen years ago -- and those two editors are 
> still ubiquitous now.  Doesn't matter much which you pick, they'll 
> still be available fifteen years in the future.)

I suspect you're right, but I don't necessarily think that's a good 
thing.  Both emacs and vi have had long runs, but it's logical to assume 
that better things will come along.

I know it's possible to handle both news and email inside emacs, but I 
use dedicated GUI apps for both of those tasks.  I still use emacs for 
programming, but there's some really good IDE's out there, and my guess 
is they will become more and more the norm.  And while I curse and wail 
about how bad MS Word is, I also realize that troff just isn't happening 
any more (I did plenty of cursing and wailing about troff back in the 
"good old days").


From michele.simionato at poste.it  Thu Apr 22 10:19:13 2004
From: michele.simionato at poste.it (Michele Simionato)
Date: 22 Apr 2004 07:19:13 -0700
Subject: AOP use cases
References: <84fc4588.0404140106.3fa0c55@posting.google.com>
	<slrnc7q1ss.1aa.alf@largo.fayauffre.org>
	<cb035744.0404141130.170f51c4@posting.google.com>
	<slrnc7sgat.vp.alf@largo.fayauffre.org>
	<cb035744.0404160442.2f0b1661@posting.google.com>
	<0pydnSB4WYuieuLdRVn-hQ@powergate.ca>
	<tyfbrlkv3ae.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
	<XYmdnVLB9rjbARrdRVn-vg@powergate.ca>
Message-ID: <95aa1afa.0404220619.7128cc8b@posting.google.com>

Peter Hansen <peter at engcorp.com> wrote in message news:<XYmdnVLB9rjbARrdRVn-vg at powergate.ca>...
> Could
> you please provide an example from your own uses which demonstrates
> the effectiveness of AOP versus "not AOP" in the same way that the
> synchronization example posted earlier is clearly better when done
> as a wrapper than with the code duplicated everywhere (i.e. with
> the "concerns" not separated)?
> 
> -Peter

I think Jacek made a beautiful post, or maybe he just summarized the way I
see AOP: nothing really different for "regular" programming, just another
way to help separation of concerns. Since you (Peter) always ask for
examples, here is a little script I posted few days ago on the mailing list,
which solves the issue of separating the concern of checking the
arguments of a constructor from the definition of the constructor.

==== quoting from a previous post of mine =====

class _WithConstructorChecked(type): # helper metaclass
    def __call__(cls, *args, **kw):
        assert len(args)<=2, "%s called with more than 2 args" % cls
        assert kw.has_key("kw"), "%s needs a 'kw=' argument" % cls 
        return super(_WithConstructorChecked,cls).__call__(*args,**kw)

class WithConstructorChecked(object): # mixin class
    __metaclass__ = _WithConstructorChecked

class C(WithConstructorChecked):   
    def __init__(self, *args, **kw):
        pass

c=C(1,2,kw=3) # ok; try different signatures to get assertion errors

In this example the mixin class WithConstructorChecked ensures that C is 
called with at least two positional arguments and a keyword argument named 
'kw'. The code of class C is not touched at all, you just add 
WithConstructorChecked to the list of its bases.

=== end quote ===

I tend to avoid the usage of AOP techniques in my production code, since I feel
them too magical and most of the time I can do what I want in "regular"
Python. Personally, I hate the hype about AOP, but I do like the concept.


       Michele Simionato


From sly_raymond at charter.net  Sun Apr 25 23:56:20 2004
From: sly_raymond at charter.net (slyraymond)
Date: Sun, 25 Apr 2004 22:56:20 -0500
Subject: Trouble Understanding O'Reilly Example
Message-ID: <108p21f7asq1cc8@corp.supernews.com>

On page 214 of _Learning Python_, the following function is described as one
that will return the smallest item in a group of arguments:

def min1(*args):
  res = args[0]
  for arg in args[1:]:
    if arg < args:
      res = arg
  return res

However, when the function called with...

print min1(3,4,1,2)

...it returns:

2

Why?


From fredrik at pythonware.com  Mon Apr 19 11:01:49 2004
From: fredrik at pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Mon, 19 Apr 2004 17:01:49 +0200
Subject: equivalent to Java's toString()?
References: <4083E52A.3030207@mediapulse.com>
Message-ID: <c60pk7$cjs$1@sea.gmane.org>

Gabriel Cooper wrote:

> What is the python equivalent to java's toString()?
>
> When debugging I want to be able to basically be able to do this:
>
>     print MyObjectInstance
>
> or
>     print str(MyObjectInstance)
>
> and have it print out formatted output along the lines of:
>
>     Object properties: Red=0 Yellow=0 Blue=255

add __repr__ and/or __str__ methods to your class:

    http://docs.python.org/ref/customization.html

</F>
</F>






From Mike at DeleteThis.Geary.com  Tue Apr 27 04:10:04 2004
From: Mike at DeleteThis.Geary.com (Michael Geary)
Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2004 01:10:04 -0700
Subject: Is Perl *that* good?
References: <mailman.18.1082989111.25742.python-list@python.org>	<lNadndrvs_FarRDdRVn-vA@powergate.ca>	<108qcobc4m8g972@corp.supernews.com>	<roy-AEA452.13121026042004@reader2.panix.com><i5m0m1-tbo.ln1@home.rogerbinns.com>
	<mailman.38.1083050626.25742.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <108s5ato02jnrf9@corp.supernews.com>

Paul Prescod wrote:
> And I think Python has a claim to the first Web robot:
>
> http://www.webhistory.org/www.lists/www-talk.1993q1/0060.html

That's a fascinating little bit of history, especially this:

"I have written a robot that does this, except it doesn't check for valid
SGML -- it just tries to map out the entire web. I believe I found roughly
50 or 60 different sites..."

-Mike




From fnord at u.washington.edu  Mon Apr 26 13:56:39 2004
From: fnord at u.washington.edu (Lonnie Princehouse)
Date: 26 Apr 2004 10:56:39 -0700
Subject: [OT] Plone
References: <6ukic.84257$cd.5573763@phobos.telenet-ops.be>
Message-ID: <f70e3538.0404260956.2f5cb9c0@posting.google.com>

Zope has some very powerful features (ZODB, CMF, etc.), but its
documentation - particularly from the developer viewpoint - is
INSANELY FRUSTRATING.  After writing a few simple products, I've found
that it's often easier for simple applications to take a
from-the-ground-up approach with twisted.web.

"flupke" <flupke at nonexistingdomain.com> wrote in message news:<6ukic.84257$cd.5573763 at phobos.telenet-ops.be>...
> Hi,
> 
> i've read some user comments on Zope. As was to be expected some say
> it's cool, others says it's difficult and not easy to debug.
> I would use Plone as CMS for our intranet which will also be a platform
> for our tools. Does plone make it even more difficult to get going or does
> it
> hide some of the difficulties of Zope?
> I'm kind of in a dillema here, the more i read about Python, the more i like
> it. As it seems mod_python/FCGI is a good combo to bring Python power
> to the web but since they want a CMS and i don't have time to write one
> from the ground up, i'm thinking of using Plone.
> I have my doubts about Zope especially from the viewpoint
> of administration. I will have to maitain the systems where it runs on also.
> 
> Any comments?
> flupke


From samschul at pacbell.net  Thu Apr 22 12:28:26 2004
From: samschul at pacbell.net (Samuel Schulenburg)
Date: 22 Apr 2004 09:28:26 -0700
Subject: using a USB HID device
References: <40827ce3.1151345337@news.xs4all.nl>
Message-ID: <d7fcf8b4.0404220828.3740a1a6@posting.google.com>

wouter at voti.nl (Wouter van Ooijen (www.voti.nl)) wrote in message news:<40827ce3.1151345337 at news.xs4all.nl>...
> I want to use Python to interface with an USB HID device (not a
> keyboard or mouse, just something that uses the HID driver to avoid
> the need for a specific driver). Is this possible in pure Python on
> Windows, or even better, in a portable way?
> 
> Wouter van Ooijen
> 
> -- ------------------------------------
> http://www.voti.nl
> PICmicro chips, programmers, consulting

I have been trying different approches to accessing mass storage 
flash memory cards via the SCSIPASSTHROUGH layer under windows. I was
able to issue the reduced instruction scsi command set with a windows
DeviceIoControl() call. The main problem is finding information on how
Microsoft merged the usb mass storage interface to the scsi routines.

Sam Schulenburg


From theller at python.net  Fri Apr 16 13:34:55 2004
From: theller at python.net (Thomas Heller)
Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2004 19:34:55 +0200
Subject: Passing a parameter to filter
References: <b4a8ffb6.0404160853.58c4ec6@posting.google.com>
	<c5p501$ceg$1@sea.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <4qrjaksg.fsf@python.net>

"Fredrik Lundh" <fredrik at pythonware.com> writes:

>     filter(lambda x: f(x, 3), range(20))
>
>     [x for x in range(20) if f(x, 3)]
>

> </F>
>
> (this reply will be followed by 20 replies pointing you to 150-line scripts
> that lets you do what you want by a combination of metaclasses, byte-
> code rewriting, and iterators...)

In your list you forgot the additional 20 replies talking about currying
(and the replies to them that currying is something different)

Thomas




From amleczko at icpnet.pl  Sun Apr  4 09:57:50 2004
From: amleczko at icpnet.pl (Andrzej Mleczko)
Date: Sun, 4 Apr 2004 15:57:50 +0200
Subject: Creating Zope product
Message-ID: <c4p493$uq3$1@topaz.icpnet.pl>

I'm trying to create a new Plone Folderish Product which will add an event
into itself after adding that product.




From peter at engcorp.com  Mon Apr 12 18:49:57 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2004 18:49:57 -0400
Subject: How to kill a SocketServer?
In-Reply-To: <20040412231840.630157e5.jules@REMOVETHIS.op59.net>
References: <c5e6k3$jf4$1@newshispeed.ch>	<c5ed3b$drg$06$1@news.t-online.com>	<c5esmh$h8$1@newshispeed.ch>	<86GdndxCWrGil-bdRVn-gw@powergate.ca>
	<20040412231840.630157e5.jules@REMOVETHIS.op59.net>
Message-ID: <ctednRMVbfyIgObdRVn-gQ@powergate.ca>

Julian Smith wrote:

> Peter Hansen <peter at engcorp.com> wrote:
>>Jean-Pierre Bergamin wrote:
>>>The accept() call still won't get interrupted. :-(
>>You have three choices.
>>
[snip]
> 
> I have a class that can be constructed from a socket and looks like a file
> object, but whose blocking read() method can be interrupted by a different
> thread. The read() method uses poll() to block on both the real underlying
> file descriptor and an internal file descriptor created using os.pipe().
> 
> It works on OpenBSD and Cygwin, but I haven't tried it on anything else yet.
> I'm a relative newcomer to Python, so I'm sure there are some subleties that
> I've missed.
> 
> See http://www.op59.net/cancelable.py if you're interested.

Looks interesting.  I guess I should have qualified my answer
by saying something like "platform-specific code might allow for
other solutions". :-)  I'm pretty sure cancelable.py's solution
wouldn't work on Windows (but if I'm wrong, then of course:
"amongst our choices are separate process, non-blocking socket,
connection from another thread, and cancelable.py, and of course
an almost fanatical devotion to the Pope...")  ;-)

-Peter


From andymac at bullseye.apana.org.au  Fri Apr  9 19:22:48 2004
From: andymac at bullseye.apana.org.au (Andrew MacIntyre)
Date: Sat, 10 Apr 2004 09:22:48 +1000 (EST)
Subject: CGI Problems With Xitami
In-Reply-To: <8089854e.0404090633.7c8541ea@posting.google.com>
References: <8089854e.0404072356.7f33f440@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.451.1081430027.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<8089854e.0404090633.7c8541ea@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <20040410092005.J23153@bullseye.apana.org.au>

On Sat, 9 Apr 2004, Fuzzyman wrote:

> Andrew MacIntyre <andymac at bullseye.apana.org.au> wrote in message news:<mailman.451.1081430027.20120.python-list at python.org>...

> > Are you using "python -u" when invoking your CGI script?  Unbuffered I/O
> > saves lots of headaches with CGI, especially on Windows.
>
> Hmmm... I'm not, I'll try it.
> I might have fun working out how with Xitami.... and then with
> whatever server we have at work :-)

I vaguely recall that Xitami might honour the "#!" convention, so try
heading your scripts with

  #!<path\to\>python -u

--
Andrew I MacIntyre                     "These thoughts are mine alone..."
E-mail: andymac at bullseye.apana.org.au  (pref) | Snail: PO Box 370
        andymac at pcug.org.au             (alt) |        Belconnen  ACT  2616
Web:    http://www.andymac.org/               |        Australia



From db3l at fitlinxx.com  Tue Apr  6 15:40:08 2004
From: db3l at fitlinxx.com (David Bolen)
Date: 06 Apr 2004 15:40:08 -0400
Subject: Filemon-ish behavior by Python?
References: <5face74a.0403291936.4b1c2442@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <u1xn028vb.fsf@fitlinxx.com>

google at chrislevis.com (Chris) writes:

> I like filemon, but I'd like it better if I could run it at the
> command line, and have the option of piping the output all over the
> place.  Does anyone out there know of an existing utility that can do
> this, or, barring that, can you point me to a good place to start on
> making such a tool using Python?  I'm not sure what I would have to
> hook into to watch these operations on the disk.

Given the level of "guts" that filemon is doing to hook into
filesystem access, and if you really want to use Python, I'd probably
suggest an approach where you continued to use the sysinternals
filemon device drivers (vxd/sys), and just replaced their GUI with
your own Python code.

You can get the source to filemon from the sysinternals site (or at
least you could the last time I downloaded it), and see how it works.

The key is dynamically loading and unloading the VXD, and then issuing
IOCtls to it to retrieve information.  My bet is you could handle that
part of the interface with ctypes, although you'll have to work a bit
to match up the precise IOCtl structures used by the driver.

If you're not totally dead set on Python but just want better control
over the output (and if you've got MSVC), you might even consider just
modifying their GUI application to do what you want.

-- David


From piet at cs.uu.nl  Sun Apr  4 11:43:48 2004
From: piet at cs.uu.nl (Piet van Oostrum)
Date: 04 Apr 2004 17:43:48 +0200
Subject: Working with bytes.
References: <406EE606.4000604@yahoo.com>
	<mailman.308.1081013778.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<406f33b6$0$30963$3a628fcd@reader1.nntp.hccnet.nl>
Message-ID: <wzk70vrbnv.fsf@Ordesa.local>

>>>>> anton at vredegoor.doge.nl (Anton Vredegoor) (AV) wrote:

AV> "Adam T. Gautier" <adam_gautier at yahoo.com> wrote:
>> I came up with a solution using the binascii module's hexlify method.

AV> That is the most obvious method, I think. However, the code below
AV> stores 7 bits per byte and still remains ascii-compliant (the
AV> binascii.hexlify method stores 4 bits per byte).
....
AV> sample output:

AV>  ??????????????????????????????????????????????

Which includes quite a few NON-ASCII characters. 
So what is ASCII-compliant about it?
You can't store 7 bits per byte and still be ASCII-compliant. At least if
you don't want to include control characters.
-- 
Piet van Oostrum <piet at cs.uu.nl>
URL: http://www.cs.uu.nl/~piet [PGP]
Private email: P.van.Oostrum at hccnet.nl


From gabriel.cooper at mediapulse.com  Wed Apr 14 13:02:15 2004
From: gabriel.cooper at mediapulse.com (Gabriel Cooper)
Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2004 13:02:15 -0400
Subject: Difficulty Finding Python Developers
In-Reply-To: <65cbc3dd.0404140641.3501fde8@posting.google.com>
References: <65cbc3dd.0404140641.3501fde8@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <407D6E97.2080700@mediapulse.com>


Paul Morrow wrote:

>We've worked hard to convince our company to migrate our core
>applications to Python, and now we're looking for a Python developer
>in Atlanta to handle a short-term (approx. 3 month) project.  But our
>initial searches have been fairly unsuccessful.  We haven't actually
>posted a job on Monster, but we have been talking with various
>headhunters in our area and they don't have many resumes that show
>Python experience.  An so now, of course, mgt is wondering whether
>selecting Python was a mistake.
>
>As anyone had a similar experience?  Suggestions?
>  
>

The company I work for has an interesting hiring technique.

They anticipate and expect that the applicant knows little or nothing of 
Python and as such they interview the person for personality, 
compatibility, etc. first. If he seems competent then we hand him a 
project and boot him out. He has 10 days to complete the project. At the 
end of 10 days the applicant comes back for a second interview where he 
basically discusses what he was able to accomplish regarding the project 
and where he ran into trouble, etc.

In our case, the project is a website (we're a website development 
company that does its work in python). We set up a server with a 
frontend and hand them the specification document. We give them data but 
it's up to them to normalize it (if they choose to do so) and put it 
into the database we give them access to. The project has to be done 
using python exclusively, of course, and is a great way to make sure 
your applicants aren't the type that "interview well."  Also, you will 
be able to see exactly how these people code. Is it spaghetti code? Is 
it clean? Do they use debug vars? Log information for testing? etc.

In my opinion it is a very accurate measure of an applicant's 
capabilities. In this case it makes it ///beneficial/// when the 
applicant has no python experience.

We have tried this method for two separate rounds of hiring and both 
times have resulted in us hiring someone different than we would have if 
we had had only the initial interview to go on. It proves that the 
people we hire are smart, interested in learning, capable of learning, 
capable of *adapting*.

Hope this helps.

Gabriel.
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From mir4uu at yahoo.com  Tue Apr 20 09:05:18 2004
From: mir4uu at yahoo.com (mir nazim)
Date: 20 Apr 2004 06:05:18 -0700
Subject: report generators
Message-ID: <425cc8d1.0404200505.4bce8dc2@posting.google.com>

hi,
i wanted 2 know if there is any report generator for python/linux that
produces reports in variety of formats e.g html/images/jpeg/png etc.
i  know about report lab but output is pdf. pdf is ok for printing but
u need a pdf viewer for viewing it. there should be some thing that
cen viewed from directly from application e.g gtkhtml for gtk, khtml
for kde etc.


From cs993442 at cs.yorku.ca  Thu Apr 29 13:03:43 2004
From: cs993442 at cs.yorku.ca (Daniel Orner)
Date: Thu, 29 Apr 2004 13:03:43 -0400
Subject: Cross-Language Encryption: Python/Java
Message-ID: <4091356F.9060901@cs.yorku.ca>

	Hello,

	I'm working on a project that consists of a Java application on the 
desktop, and a server with Python CGI code. I'm trying to find an 
encryption algorithm, which would let me send encrypted information to 
the server, to work identically in both Python and Java. (I.e. which 
would let me encrypt data in Java, send it to the Python server, and 
decrypt it there.) For various reasons, I don't want to use the built-in 
Java encryption suite.
	I've found implementations of Rijndael/AES for both Java and Python, 
but the behavior is not identical (the strings that are produced are 
different). I tried porting the Python rotormodule.c to Java, but my C 
skills are not quite on the expert level, and I got bogged down trying 
to figure out which C types corresponded to Java types (and its behavior 
when casting and not casting, etc.).
	Does anyone have a good idea about what my options might be here? 
Truthfully I don't know a whole lot about encryption algorithms, so if 
you can point me to something I can adapt without having to understand 
all the niggling details, that would really be great.

	Thanks very much for your time and attention,

--Daniel Orner



From nuffsaid at phreaker.net  Fri Apr 30 20:55:20 2004
From: nuffsaid at phreaker.net (Nuff Said)
Date: Sat, 01 May 2004 02:55:20 +0200
Subject: IDE for Python
References: <mailman.164.1083359859.25742.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <pan.2004.05.01.00.55.19.899197@phreaker.net>

On Fri, 30 Apr 2004 14:17:32 -0700, dont bother wrote:
> Is there any good IDE for Python. I checked on
> www.python.org and found some. Installed bluefish but
> to my surprise its just an editor. I guess it cannot
> even compile my code in python or maybe I am wrong.

Why an IDE? Python is - IMO - (one of) THE languages, where
a good editor (tabs2spaces, comment blocks, select encoding, 
syntax highlighting, auto-indentation, scriptable ...) is all 
you really need. 

(Bluefish ain't the editor of your choice here; write your own 
from scrap or write one using Scintilla; resp. use SciTE with 
a good customization file; or go for (X)Emacs resp. Vim.)

HTH, Nuff.



From mogmios at mlug.missouri.edu  Mon Apr 26 22:52:28 2004
From: mogmios at mlug.missouri.edu (Michael)
Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2004 19:52:28 -0700
Subject: Is Perl *that* good?
In-Reply-To: <knbjc.267$id.3998@news2.e.nsc.no>
References: <c6ich0$c5mee$1@ID-205437.news.uni-berlin.de>	<iL3jc.232$Yc.2330@news4.e.nsc.no>	<108q51j4dscn7dc@corp.supernews.com>
	<knbjc.267$id.3998@news2.e.nsc.no>
Message-ID: <408DCAEC.4080701@mlug.missouri.edu>


>In theory, the web routine for phonetic searches might have been
>implemented in PHP. The trouble with that is that I would have to
>maintain both a PHP and a Perl version of the same routine. I find it
>much easier to just copy and paste the whole mess (at present about 120
>lines) between the encoding and the decoding routines in Perl, and run
>an exec("perl norphon.pl $name") from PHP.
>
I've wondered if there is really a reason why a single language 
processor couldn't be made that Perl, Python, PHP, etc could all be 
compiled into. Not necesarily a byte code system like Java but just a 
shared language processing core. Then the various languages could 
directly work with libraries written in the other languages. How much 
does the syntax actually effect the abilities of the language? How much 
should it effect the abilities of the language?



From aku at europe.com  Thu Apr  8 06:09:35 2004
From: aku at europe.com (aku)
Date: 08 Apr 2004 10:09:35 GMT
Subject: why is python better than eg. smalltalk?? no one has any solid
	arguments! you should all go to church with all that religious talk!
References: <20031028061245.12451.00000133@mb-m01.aol.com>
	<mailman.237.1067515722.702.python-list@python.org>
	<opr53783cbmyya52@news.kadnet.dom>
	<4074f954$0$5802$79c14f64@nan-newsreader-02.noos.net>
Message-ID: <407524df$0$5066$4d4ebb8e@news.nl.uu.net>

On 2004-04-08, francois lepoutre <franck.lepoutre at caramail.com> wrote:
> 
>  http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&selm=3A2DD2CA.14A5D7E2%40engcorp.com&prev=/groups%3Fq%3Dpython%2520%2522van%2520rossum%2522%2520esperanto%26hl%3Den%26lr%3D%26ie%3DUTF-8%26oe%3DUTF-8%26sa%3DN%26tab%3Dwg


The article talks about Esperanto and says:
"Still widely spoken in that country"

This is humor people. there's as many people speaking Esperanto
here as that are walking on the moon right now.

aku


From dontbotherworld at yahoo.com  Fri Apr 30 17:17:32 2004
From: dontbotherworld at yahoo.com (dont bother)
Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2004 14:17:32 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: IDE for Python
Message-ID: <20040430211732.38504.qmail@web60802.mail.yahoo.com>

Hi Guys:
Is there any good IDE for Python. I checked on
www.python.org and found some. Installed bluefish but
to my surprise its just an editor. I guess it cannot
even compile my code in python or maybe I am wrong.
Any ideas/recommendations for a free IDE for Python
Thanks
Dont


	
		
__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! HotJobs  
http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/careermakeover 



From hugh-m at moving-picture.com  Fri Apr 16 06:13:16 2004
From: hugh-m at moving-picture.com (Hugh Macdonald)
Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2004 11:13:16 +0100
Subject: CamelCase versus wide_names (Prothon)
In-Reply-To: <87wu4gjkwb.fsf@blakie.riol>
References: <UHxfc.9323$dZ1.3740@fed1read04> <87hdvl2dny.fsf@blakie.riol>
	<c5mr6h$jkn$1@atlantis.news.tpi.pl> <87d6692ar8.fsf@blakie.riol>
	<mailman.674.1082103786.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<FCNfc.25592$zf6.94057@news4.e.nsc.no> <87wu4gjkwb.fsf@blakie.riol>
Message-ID: <20040416111316.6f086ad8.hugh-m@moving-picture.com>

On Fri, 16 Apr 2004 12:07:48 +0200
Wilk <wilkSPAM at OUTflibuste.net> wrote:

> Why not - instead of _ ?
> 
> def my-function()
> 
> it doesn't need shift on azerty and qwerty isn'it ?
> 
> and we already use it in natural langage...

So what happens in the following code:

data = 23
my = 2
my-data = 56
value = 3

new-value = my-data-value

Or would it insist on:

new-value = my-data - value
or
new-value = my - data - value


I think having a character available for names that is also used elsewhere as an operator is a VeryBadThing(TM) (or should that be veryBadThing or very_bad_thing?)....


-- 
Hugh Macdonald
The Moving Picture Company



From nobody at dizum.com  Mon Apr  5 15:50:07 2004
From: nobody at dizum.com (Nomen Nescio)
Date: Mon,  5 Apr 2004 21:50:07 +0200 (CEST)
Subject: slightly OT: BUT NEEDs to be said
References: <lvOdnRJzZ9244ezdRVn-uQ@powergate.ca>
Message-ID: <8b42d1998c978c8c1cddf15c52a1c57b@dizum.com>

In article <lvOdnRJzZ9244ezdRVn-uQ at powergate.ca>, Peter Hansen <peter at engcorp.com>
wrote:

> Some people despise snakes, and are terrified of them.

Everyone loves cute cuddly snakes and no one in their right mind is afraid
of them. They don't carry any political baggage or meaning.

> 
> Nor, perhaps, should you bring politics into your arguments, at least
> not if you want to maintain credibility with a largely technical crowd.

I think politics are introduced when the author uses MPFC as the basis. 

> So clearly you haven't used it even enough to get past this concern
> about indentation, which generally goes away after only a few days
> or perhaps weeks of use.  That hurts your credibility as well...

Ok. Well the indentation thing which is largely irrelivant...

> If you've managed to read this far, which I doubt, then I want you
> to know that you might actually have a point.  At least about the
> Monty Python references not being a particular _strength_ in
> promoting Python. 

Sorry if I was ranting but here is some more rant:

People have very real reason to fear MPFC: Highly educated/wealthy family background/private
school/Oxford/Cambridge people jumping about and acting 'zany' and coming up
with all sorts of useless sketches designed to appeal strictly to the liberal-elite
is a fairly repulsive artistic concept especially if you do not find the style
of MPFC even remotely amusing.

Unfortunately this formula (hiring these sorts of people) was to become the
bed rock of BBC alternative comedy for years to come (Ben Elton, Steven Fry
etc etc) and remember people in the UK did not have the choice about this crap
as it came out of their licence fee (that is another subject)

So anyway I don't see quite those sorts of concepts woven into PHP, Perl,C,C++,
Java or anything else....although there may well be similar things but *well*
hidden as they should be

If someone came up with a KKK language it might be attractive for members of
the KKK but would generally be consideredly highly unacceptable and would attract
much criticism. If someone came up with a language/interpreter based on their
favourite TV show like I dunno 'Friends' or whatever it would be seen as ridiculous.
If I came up with a scripting language called 'Ben Elton' then that would have
extreme political overtones and just invoke all Ben Eltons extreme left wing
radicalism.

At the least MPFC is divisive (you either find it funny or you don't)

Surely the uptake and use of a particular language (to solve a particular niche
or set of problems) is at least in part due to the perceived politcal and artist
*neutrality* of that language.

If the author and contributors to Python wish to only encourage Python use
on the basis that the end user has great admiration of MPFC (as amusingly hinted
at by one of the other authors in this thread) you should perhaps restrict
access to python.org and related sites and authenticate on that basis and call
it a private members club....

Cuddly cartoon characters like the Snake, or various BSD creatures = highly
acceptable and good.

MPFC = too aristically/politically/socially 'loaded' to be acceptable.

Please drag the Python and python.org image out of the stuffy past and in line
with similar projects

regards 





From fma at doe.carleton.ca  Thu Apr  1 17:21:07 2004
From: fma at doe.carleton.ca (Fred Ma)
Date: 1 Apr 2004 22:21:07 GMT
Subject: Python from the command line (was: Choosing Perl/Python for my 
 particular niche)
References: <40652B0D.7C313F77@doe.carleton.ca>
	<4069F1FD.601C9079@doe.carleton.ca>
	<106n8kj2t5n7m11@corp.supernews.com>
	<406BB6C4.7F3ADD4@doe.carleton.ca>
	<E1B91e4-0001iT-00@ns.purdue.org>
Message-ID: <406C95CD.F42B3D9@doe.carleton.ca>

Cameron Laird wrote:
> 
> >I've put in a request to my sysadmin to install python.  The
> >way to get hooked on it is to start small, with mundane tasks
> >(same as with any new shell, I suppose).  If it doesn't get
> >installed due to lack of priority, I can always get it
> >bundled with my next cygwin update.  Cygwin is an absolute
> >blessing.  Everything comes prebuilt (lots of stuff) and
> >you have superuser priveleges, as well as simultaneous
> >access to Windows.  Just as long as your HDD isn't FAT
> >(that prevents chmod from working).
> 
> Oh!  Apparently Win* is the platform of interest; that
> hadn't occurred to me.
> 
> There's a LOT to say specifically on the topic of Python-
> for-Windows-system-administration.  You might want to
> start with Mark Hammond's book.
> 
> I'm no great fan of CYGWIN for my own use, although I
> certainly recognize it's been historically important.
> It occurs to me that perhaps we haven't made adequately
> clear how easy it is to install native Python on Windows.
> It should take less time doing it than talking about do-
> ing it.  I'm not arguing with your approach; I just want
> to ensure we've been clear about the alternatives.


Actually, didn't mean to cause a great deal of confusion here,
but solaris is the main platform.  But I access solaris boxes
from a PC.  And since I have a mapped network drive, I can use
PC tools to work on my unix files.

I agree, installing stuff on windows is easy.  My comment about
cygwin is that it's even easier than easy.  I just have to check
off the Python box.  That gives me opportunity to try it for
small things.

By no means am I comparing cygwin to other unix environments for
the PC.  I enjoy it out of convenience.  Most of my stuff is on
the solaris, and cygwin gives me a nice posix shell without
leaving the windows environment.

Fred
-- 
Fred Ma
Dept. of Electronics, Carleton University
1125 Colonel By Drive, Ottawa, Ontario
Canada, K1S 5B6


From RobMEmmons at cs.com  Sun Apr 11 06:43:38 2004
From: RobMEmmons at cs.com (Robert M. Emmons)
Date: Sun, 11 Apr 2004 05:43:38 -0500
Subject: what relationship between this mail list and the python group
 on Google?
In-Reply-To: <mailman.407.1081323836.20120.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.407.1081323836.20120.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <4079215A.3010606@cs.com>

> what relationship between this mail list and the python group on Google?
> i saw the same info on both

Just some background.  USENET or Network News is the second oldest 
discussion forum group around.  It's been around since the 1980's or 
maybe 1970's.  The Python forum is part of that.  Incidently, the first 
discussion forum network was "mailing lists".  Often Newsgroups and 
mailing lists are gatewayed to one another to provide both types of 
access.  Some other posters said this is true for the Python forum -- I 
don't know either way.

Because Usenet discussions are so important in terms of information 
content and reference material people started to archive these.  One was 
Dejanews (spelling?) which mirrored USENET so people could search 
archives a decade or more old.  Google a few years ago took over this 
archiving and searching function which is nice.  I use google group 
searchs quite frequently.  Goggle also offers submittale and other news 
reading features also.

The point I want to make is that USENET is a unique forum system based 
on collaboration among many many internet sites that put up and agreed 
to share news groups among themselves and Google is just one participant 
in this that provides some very nice user features.  This is different 
from other forums you see on say Yahoo, AOL/Compuserve, and the like. 
Usenet is community based and not owned by any one group where the 
others are commerical.  It also tends to have more technical content 
too.  These are some of the reasons I prefer usenet.

Rob



From peter at engcorp.com  Thu Apr 15 05:37:09 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2004 05:37:09 -0400
Subject: Very Interesting Project for Python Person
In-Reply-To: <854e9e55.0404141138.416c9ab1@posting.google.com>
References: <854e9e55.0404141138.416c9ab1@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <KbydnZZ2qY5YyuPdRVn-uw@powergate.ca>

Zanke wrote:

> This is part of an open source project at SourceForge.  The Python
> program would have to call some methods that were compiled from C
> source code.
> 
> We need someone to add 2D graphics & GUI to an existing C program. The
> main program, graphics, & GUI would be python/tKinter.  The graphics
> would show the path of a virtual sailboat, which has a robot at the
> helm. The robot is actually an Artificial Neural Network (ANN). We use
> neuroevolution to discover a competent ANN yachtsman.
> 
> Visit http://annevolve.sourceforge.net to learn more; especially the
> sourceforge link.

Your first post made it through to the list/newsgroup already.


From harry.g.george at boeing.com  Fri Apr  2 11:49:37 2004
From: harry.g.george at boeing.com (Harry George)
Date: Fri, 2 Apr 2004 16:49:37 GMT
Subject: ftpmirror.py in reverse?
References: <xqxwu4zk599.fsf@cola2.ca.boeing.com>
	<ag6bc.4176$bQ3.2741@fe2.columbus.rr.com>
Message-ID: <xqxad1u8gv2.fsf@cola2.ca.boeing.com>

Carl Banks <imbosol at aerojockey.invalid> writes:

> Harry George wrote:
> > I maintain a website on a local machine, and want to maintain a clone
> > of it on a www-visible remote machine via ftp.  I.e., local to remote.
> > 
> > Going remote to local, ftpmirror.py would (I understand) do the job.
> > 
> > Is there some tool available (or even a parameter for ftpmirror.py)
> > which can do local-->remote?
> 
> 
> I've written such a script.
> 
> http://www.aerojockey.com/software/#ftpupsync
> 
> It's public domain, use at your own risk, n' at.  It probably doesn't
> work on Windows, but wouldn't be hard to modify it to.  Sorry, no
> documentation.  I really should document it, tie up loose ends and
> package it.
> 
> Sorry about the tabs^H^H^H^H Unicode indent characters.
> 
> 
> -- 
> CARL BANKS                      http://www.aerojockey.com/software
> "If you believe in yourself, drink your school, stay on drugs, and
> don't do milk, you can get work." 
>           -- Parody of Mr. T from a Robert Smigel Cartoon


Excellent; looks just right.  I'll give it a try.

-- 
harry.g.george at boeing.com
6-6M21 BCA CompArch Design Engineering
Phone: (425) 342-0007


From claird at lairds.com  Mon Apr 26 13:24:28 2004
From: claird at lairds.com (Cameron Laird)
Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2004 17:24:28 -0000
Subject: Is Perl *that* good? (was: How's ruby compare to it older bro
References: <mailman.18.1082989111.25742.python-list@python.org>
	<lNadndrvs_FarRDdRVn-vA@powergate.ca>
	<108qcobc4m8g972@corp.supernews.com>
	<roy-AEA452.13121026042004@reader2.panix.com>
Message-ID: <108qhecd7a4kt35@corp.supernews.com>

In article <roy-AEA452.13121026042004 at reader2.panix.com>,
Roy Smith  <roy at panix.com> wrote:
			.
			.
			.
>trying new things too.  5 years ago, Pythonistas (was the term even 
>invented then?) were crazy rebels.  Today, they're the fashionable avant 
			.
			.
			.
Gordon McMillan, 1998 <URL:
http://groups.google.com/groups?frame=left&th=a4392ccc9b42f7cd >

My first guess was almost exactly a year earlier.
-- 

Cameron Laird <claird at phaseit.net>
Business:  http://www.Phaseit.net


From fumanchu at amor.org  Thu Apr 22 01:31:01 2004
From: fumanchu at amor.org (Robert Brewer)
Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2004 22:31:01 -0700
Subject: Cell objects and their values
Message-ID: <DE1CF2B4FEC4A342BF62B6B2B334601E56203A@opus.amorhq.net>

Jeff Epler wrote:
> This seems to work, but it's undocumented (specifically, 
> func_closure as
> an argument to new.function is undocumented) and makes my tummy feel
> funny when I think about it.
> 
> >>> import new
> >>> def cell_get(cell):
> ...    def f(): return cell
> ...    return new.function(f.func_code, {}, "f", (), (cell,))()
> ...    

Rock. On.

That is frickin' brilliant in at least three ways I never would have
thought of. :) Thanks! Looking back over Raymond's bytecode hack in PEP
329, I notice he also used func_closure as an arg to function(). In
addition, he avoided importing the "new" module by just calling
type(f)().

Danke.


Robert Brewer
MIS
Amor Ministries
fumanchu at amor.org



From fabio.trezziCANCELLAMI at email.it  Tue Apr 20 09:23:21 2004
From: fabio.trezziCANCELLAMI at email.it (Wezzy)
Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 15:23:21 +0200
Subject: emacs for OS X
References: <See_my-BB1217.02175320042004@news.verizon.net>
Message-ID: <1gcjrc7.1s60i39g5q0kiN%fabio.trezziCANCELLAMI@email.it>

Tuxtrax <See_my at Signature.com.invalid> wrote:

> Hi all
> 
> My editor of choice on linux for python, bar none, is xemacs. I love the
> python mode that detects a python file and handles indentation and 
> coloration for me automagically.
> 
> I have been using a powerbook for a while now, and I finally found emacs
> for aqua in OS X Jaguar (10.2.8). I downloaded it from porkrind.com. The
> version of emacs is 21.3 I believe. Anyway, not only does it *not* 
> detect python files automatically, but it tries to use fundamental mode
> to handle them which is a pain in the ass. I want my coloring and 
> indentation back, damn it all!
> 
> I found python-mode.el in the python distribution folder, but not only
> do I have no clue as to what to do with it, I can't find an emacs folder
> or a .emac file. Just the emac program. Any help with this would be 
> greatly appreciated. If you have overcome this yourself I especially 
> want to hear from you.
> 
> In other news.....
> 

I use Emacs with Panther but i think that the situation is the same.
Download python-mode from python.org:
 http://www.python.org/emacs/python-mode/python-mode.el

Compile the file

Move both file where emacs can find them

Open Terminal
The .emacs file is into your home folder (tipically /Users/<youid>) so
when you open terminal you are already in the right place

add the following lines to your .emacs file :

(setq auto-mode-alist
      (cons '("\\.py$" . python-mode) auto-mode-alist))
(setq interpreter-mode-alist
      (cons '("python" . python-mode)
            interpreter-mode-alist))
(autoload 'python-mode "python-mode" "Python editing mode." t)
(global-font-lock-mode t)
(setq font-lock-maximum-decoration t)

(i've found this code in www.python.org)

Now when you try to open a .py file emacs  loads python-mode
Hope this helps

-- 
Ciao
Fabio


From sean_berry at cox.net  Thu Apr 22 04:00:34 2004
From: sean_berry at cox.net (Sean Berry)
Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2004 01:00:34 -0700
Subject: Python use large scale projects
References: <47fc6058.0404212327.24163290@posting.google.com>
	<c67tdn$smf$1@ctb-nnrp2.saix.net>
Message-ID: <QZKhc.77171$U83.39309@fed1read03>

I am in the process of writing a new store software in python.
So far, about 8000 lines of code.  Fairly large project, not completly in
python.  Uses some C as well.


"David Fraser" <davidf at sjsoft.com> wrote in message
news:c67tdn$smf$1 at ctb-nnrp2.saix.net...
> limor wrote:
> > Hi,
> > I am considering using Python in a new testing tool application we
> > intend to build for out product.
> > I must get references before starting develope in this language ,
> > since although lots of good things are said about this language , I
> > still have my doubts how can it compete with languages like C++ and
> > Java.
> > I have found te sytax and some features if the language not as
> > problematic in maintenance prospective (although I keep reading the
> > contrary everywhere I read somthing about python) . For people who are
> > used to write in C and C++ I think the python being typless makes the
> > code hard to maintain.
> On the contrary, I found coming from a C/C++ background that the dynamic
> typing was an advantage.
> > But still, In many prespective the language seems to really suit my
> > needs and I would really like to talk with people who are using Python
> > in their company to medium-large scale project.
> >
> > I'd really like to talk with someone who is using this language in his
> > work for large scale projects.
> > 10x allot for whoe ever reply me on that.
> > With Regards,
> > limor.
>
> We use Python for a few projects that are about 10000 lines of code.
> Note however that this would probably be 40000 lines in C++.
> The compact simplicity of Python has made this code much easier to
manage...
>
> David




From jepler at unpythonic.net  Thu Apr  1 15:55:42 2004
From: jepler at unpythonic.net (Jeff Epler)
Date: Thu, 1 Apr 2004 14:55:42 -0600
Subject: Travelling salesman variation in python
In-Reply-To: <c4htj1$os1$1@newsreader2.netcologne.de>
References: <slrnc6on9h.spl.erlendga@tva.ifi.uio.no>
	<c4htj1$os1$1@newsreader2.netcologne.de>
Message-ID: <20040401205541.GE20484@unpythonic.net>

Can't TSP be converted to your problem?

If you have TSP with distance(Xi, Xj)=Dij, then convert it to your
problem by letting distance(X'i, X'j)=distance(X'j, X'i)=-Dij.
or if only positive weights are allowed then use max(D)-Dij.

Jeff



From jcarlson at uci.edu  Wed Apr 21 00:13:29 2004
From: jcarlson at uci.edu (Josiah Carlson)
Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 21:13:29 -0700
Subject: how to calculate correctly the cluster size
In-Reply-To: <n1d980tvvufhc9167gmlqs67jbpoodhf7s@4ax.com>
References: <f6554b84.0404130415.547f2a06@posting.google.com>
	<c5vr8o$jql$1@news.service.uci.edu>
	<omv680lm095eqagvpi4g1s0i5tn7a3r5sp@4ax.com>
	<c60r71$ivi$1@news.service.uci.edu>
	<n1d980tvvufhc9167gmlqs67jbpoodhf7s@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <c64sk2$r7a$1@news.service.uci.edu>

> 	These are all FAT32 partitions. Don't know how to, if possible,
> change clusters on my XP laptop using NTFS.
> 
> 	While I used Partition Magic to do the partitioning, the sizes
> are the smallest cluster size possible in the partition size. One reason
> I have so many partitions: 

The Windows 2k "Disk Administrator" software for 2K always uses 4k 
cluster sizes by default.  I believe your varied cluster sizes are the 
result of using Partition Magic to create them.


> 	It took forever to defrag a 300GB (two partitions) firewire
> drive under NTFS (this drive is used with my XP laptop for miniDV
> captures and editing). I actually had to double the memory of my laptop
> (now 768 MB) before the defrag could run to completion.

There exists an algorithm for defragmenting a drive that only needs to 
read and write the entire drive twice (I wrote one for a database 
defragmenter), and there likely exists one that reads and writes even less.

If you have a 150 gig drive (and it is filled), your computer will need 
to read and write a around 600 gigs (read, write, each twice, 150 gigs). 
  Even if your drive is fast, like say 30 megs/second (probably on the 
high-end for defragmenting), 600,000/30/3600 ~ 5.5 hours.  In reality, 
you're probably getting closer to 5-15 megs/second during a defragment, 
which would give you 11-33 hours to defrag each of your 150 gig partitions.

It's the whole capacity vs bandwidth issue on hard drives, which is 
similar to the bandwidth vs latency issue with RAM.  Ahh, technology.

  - Josiah


From __peter__ at web.de  Thu Apr 29 12:32:12 2004
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Thu, 29 Apr 2004 18:32:12 +0200
Subject: Generic constructors and duplication of internal Python logic
References: <87ekqq41ya.fsf@pobox.com>
	<8dad5312.0404280217.21c2cfd1@posting.google.com>
	<95aa1afa.0404280619.778bd323@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <c6ramc$ptf$04$3@news.t-online.com>

Michele Simionato wrote:

> sdementen at hotmail.com (Sebastien de Menten) wrote in message
> news:<8dad5312.0404280217.21c2cfd1 at posting.google.com>...
>> Here is a metaclass for uber-lazy user :-)
>> 
>> Concretely, at the creation of the class it takes the source of the
>> __init__ function and add, at the first line of __init__, the line
>> that sets the attributes :
>> >         self.foo, self.bar, self.baz, self.optional1, self.optional2 =
>> >                    foo, bar, baz, optional1, optional2
>> 
> 
> Unfortunately this approach does not work if the source is not available
> (this happens when you are in the interpreter, or when you only have a
> .pyc file). I was playing this kind of tricks some time ago, then I
> decided that it was best to switch to Lisp/Scheme for this kind of stuff
> ;)

Here's a variant that operates on the byte code:

import opcode

class List(list):
    def ensure(self, value):
        try:
            return self.index(value)
        except ValueError:
            self.append(value)
            return len(self)-1

class Recorder(object):
    def __init__(self, code):
        self.func_code = code
        self._code = map(ord, code.co_code)[:-4]
        self._names = List(code.co_names)

    def __getattr__(self, name):
        opc = opcode.opmap[name.upper()]
        def record(self, arg=None):
            # XXX limit name resolution/addition to the proper opcodes
            if isinstance(arg, str):
                arg = self._names.ensure(arg)
            self._code.append(opc)
            if arg is not None:
                self._code.append(arg & 0xff)
                self._code.append(arg >> 8)
        setattr(self.__class__, name, record)
        return getattr(self, name)

    def code(self):
        return ''.join(map(chr, self._code))
    def names(self):
        return tuple(self._names)

def autoinit(f):
    co = f.func_code

    r = Recorder(co)
    for i in range(1, co.co_argcount):
        r.load_fast(i)
        r.load_fast(0) # self
        r.store_attr(co.co_varnames[i])
    r.load_const(0) # None
    r.return_value()

    new_names = r.names()
    new_code = r.code()

    codeobj = type(co)(co.co_argcount, co.co_nlocals, co.co_stacksize,
                    co.co_flags, new_code, co.co_consts, new_names,
                    co.co_varnames, co.co_filename, co.co_name,
                    co.co_firstlineno, co.co_lnotab, co.co_freevars,
                    co.co_cellvars)
    return type(f)(codeobj, f.func_globals, f.func_name, f.func_defaults,
                    f.func_closure)

class AutoInit(type):
    def __new__(cls, classname, bases, classdict):
        classdict["__init__"] = autoinit(classdict["__init__"])
        return type.__new__(cls, classname, bases, classdict)

class Demo(object):
    __metaclass__ = AutoInit
    def __init__(self, baz, top, foo=3, r=None):
        if r is None:
            r = ["default"]
        foo *= 2
        baz *= 3
        helper = 42 #ignored

    def __str__(self):
        return ("Demo(baz=%(baz)r, top=%(top)r, foo=%(foo)r, r=%(r)r)"
            % self.__dict__)


if __name__ == "__main__":
    print Demo(1, 2)
    print Demo(10, 20, 30, r=["other"])
    print Demo(100, foo="other", top=200)

I guess that was just a complicated way to fail the sanity check :)

Peter



From adeleinandjeremy at yahoo.com  Tue Apr  6 15:22:20 2004
From: adeleinandjeremy at yahoo.com (Adelein and Jeremy)
Date: Tue, 6 Apr 2004 12:22:20 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: slightly OT: BUT NEEDs to be said
Message-ID: <20040406192220.75664.qmail@web40811.mail.yahoo.com>

Even if the original poster of this thread isn't serious, it brings
to mind a real concern I have.

RMS initiated the design of a free operating system - RMS wanted to
name it humorously, so RMS named *his* idea GNU. Along comes Joe
Netboy saying that GNU isn't marketable because it's mispronounced,
inserious, and has the wrong philosophy behind it.

Guido was the originator of the programming language we call Python -
Guido liked Monty Python, so he named *his* language Python. Along
comes Joe Netboy saying that Python is unmarketable due to political
(??!??) concerns would be a good name if only it were in reference to
something else other than what it is.

There are other examples which paint a disturbing trend (because even
if these are usually trollings, you know some people out there
believe what is said), but on with my point....

Well, AFAIK, neither of these projects were started in order to sell
the most copies. And, also AFAIK, both may be taken, repackaged,
RENAMED (look at how this was done with GNU when it magically became
Linux), and even sold by anyone anywhere to anyone else anywhere.

So if there exist people who really care about the mascot (??!???!!)
of a programming language, they are free to repackage this one with a
new name and even some changes in documentation and source code to
eliminate all references to Monty Python. Problem solved - *if* there
really is such a concern and this whole post is not just the random
trolling of a bored individual.

Well, that was my two cents - it's easy to ignore this kind of thing,
but I really think that attitudes like this tend to evolve into real
threats to the goals of projects that were never intended to be
commercial at the cost of all else - not that Python (or GNU, for
that matter) wasn't intended to be commercial.

- Jeremy

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Small Business $15K Web Design Giveaway 
http://promotions.yahoo.com/design_giveaway/



From dolzenko at rsu.ru  Wed Apr 14 02:58:31 2004
From: dolzenko at rsu.ru (Eugeni Doljenko)
Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2004 10:58:31 +0400
Subject: How to determine from which module function or class come?
Message-ID: <407CE117.4000301@rsu.ru>

I was confused when some plotting libraries (matplotlib, PyQwt) imported 
whole Numeric in current namespace.
(Numeric redefine cos(), sin() and other math functions to operate 
properly on arrays).
When I type "print cos()" it prints <ufunc....> happily i know about 
UFuncs in numarray and Numeric and so i've found that these functions 
come from Numeric, or numarray.
But I want something like this:

 >>> which some_function
some_module.some_sub_module.some_function
 >>> which some_class
some_module1.some_sub_module1.some_class

i.e. something that shows from which module function or class come.

Obscurely I suspect it's impossible in general, is it so or not?

Sorry for my newbee question and stupid English :)



From max at alcyone.com  Thu Apr 22 21:28:37 2004
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2004 18:28:37 -0700
Subject: Why we will use obj$func() often
References: <d2Uhc.22272$dZ1.1600@fed1read04> <84Uhc.22278$dZ1.5087@fed1read04>
	<mailman.927.1082665370.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<8AWhc.23114$dZ1.11070@fed1read04> <40883BFE.B381518A@alcyone.com>
	<27_hc.23801$dZ1.2716@fed1read04>
Message-ID: <40887145.789A2FE8@alcyone.com>

Mark Hahn wrote:

> Well, I do tend to exaggerate a bit.  I can understand it when I study
> it,
> but in everyday coding it does not roll off my fingers.  Also, it is
> possible to design something new without understanding the old.

It is _possible_.  But it is not a very good idea.

> I am serious when I say I think that Python has headed off into
> egghead land
> a bit and I feel that keeps a lot of people from switching to it.  I
> think
> that this heady stuff scares them off.  I really am trying to make
> things
> simpler in Prothon.  Now, whether I can succeed or not is another
> question.
> Only time will tell.

Other than the basic premise of Prothon, every single decision I've seen
you make (or consider) looks wholly stylistic, awkward or even arcane,
and the opposite of the one I, or I think Guido, would have chosen. 
Being a fan of Io, I think prototype-languages are interesting.  Even so
far, I lost interest in looking at the actual main feature of Prothon,
after seeing all the extra baggage that was brought on in unecessary
stylistic changes.

Seriously considering every single possible proposal is not
constructive.  Without a strong sense of what the language should look
like, Prothon is going to continue to look more and more like Perl. 
It's already most of the way there.

-- 
 __ Erik Max Francis && max at alcyone.com && http://www.alcyone.com/max/
/  \ San Jose, CA, USA && 37 20 N 121 53 W && AIM erikmaxfrancis
\__/ I love Mickey Mouse more than any woman I've ever known.
    -- Walt Disney


From greg at cosc.canterbury.ac.nz  Wed Apr 28 02:14:09 2004
From: greg at cosc.canterbury.ac.nz (Greg Ewing)
Date: Wed, 28 Apr 2004 18:14:09 +1200
Subject: Why we will use obj$func() often
In-Reply-To: <u8zjc.7394$Qy.127@fed1read04>
References: <d2Uhc.22272$dZ1.1600@fed1read04> <84Uhc.22278$dZ1.5087@fed1read04>
	<mailman.927.1082665370.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<8AWhc.23114$dZ1.11070@fed1read04> <40883BFE.B381518A@alcyone.com>
	<27_hc.23801$dZ1.2716@fed1read04> <40887145.789A2FE8@alcyone.com>
	<7cki80hj976bia36lhf9er97v073o1pqvm@4ax.com>
	<w8dic.28710$dZ1.11206@fed1read04> <ulXiAls/KH1K089yn@the-wire.com>
	<lkfic.29767$dZ1.17301@fed1read04>
	<donn-66132E.15345723042004@nntp3.u.washington.edu>
	<PLhic.30493$dZ1.22063@fed1read04>
	<c6huj3$c3s3f$1@ID-169208.news.uni-berlin.de>
	<u8zjc.7394$Qy.127@fed1read04>
Message-ID: <c6ni3j$e0vbb$1@ID-169208.news.uni-berlin.de>

Mark Hahn wrote:
> What do you mean by keyword?  Which do you mean?
> 
> 1) outer x      # x is declared to come from outer scope
> 
> 2) outer.x      # outer is prefix replacing &
> 
> Form 1 is very non-P*thonic.  I was happy to get rid of the global keyword
> and I'd hate to see this one show up.

I was thinking of it as a direct replacement for &,
so that instead of

    &x = y + &z

you'd write

    outer x = y + outer z

But if you don't like the look of that, there's
nothing more to be said.

-- 
Greg Ewing, Computer Science Dept,
University of Canterbury,	
Christchurch, New Zealand
http://www.cosc.canterbury.ac.nz/~greg



From altis at semi-retired.com  Tue Apr 13 13:00:44 2004
From: altis at semi-retired.com (Kevin Altis)
Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2004 10:00:44 -0700
Subject: Announce: PythonCard 0.7.3.1
Message-ID: <DXUec.24$Yn2.19041@news.uswest.net>

PythonCard is a GUI construction kit for building cross-platform desktop
applications on Windows, Mac OS X, and Linux.

Release 0.7.3.1 includes over 40 sample applications and tools to help users
build applications in Python, including codeEditor, findfiles, and
resourceEditor (layout editor). A list of changes since release 0.7.2 is at
the end of this message.

This is the last planned "prototype" release of PythonCard. We've started
cleaning up the framework code and finalizing the API for a 1.0 release
sometime in early summer. There will be at least two more releases before
then, so if you would like to get involved in the PythonCard project, now is
a great time to join the mailing list.


All the information you need about PythonCard can be found on the project
web page at:
http://pythoncard.sourceforge.net/

The installation instructions and walkthroughs are available on the main
documentation page:
http://pythoncard.sourceforge.net/documentation.html

You can download the latest release at:
http://sourceforge.net/project/showfiles.php?group_id=19015

For a list of most of the samples that have been built with PythonCard and
screenshots of them in action go to:
http://pythoncard.sourceforge.net/samples/samples.html

The kind people at SourceForge host the project:
http://sourceforge.net/projects/pythoncard/

If you want to get involved the main contact point is the Mailing list:
http://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/pythoncard-users

PythonCard requires Python 2.2.1 or later and wxPython 2.4.1.2 or later.

Additional Notes:
Remember to backup or just delete your old PythonCardPrototype directory
before installing a new version, so that the old files aren't still in the
package directory. If you installed a previous version of PythonCard on
Windows using the binary installer, then you should be able to remove the
old package via the Add/Remove Programs Control Panel.

The distutils installer will put the framework, components, docs, samples,
and tools in Lib\site-packages or your Python directory (typically
C:\Python22 or C:\Python23). Of course, on Linux and Mac OS X that path will
be slightly different and have forward slashes.

Windows users should get a PythonCard menu in the Start->Programs menu with
links to the documentation, samples, codeEditor, findfiles, and
resourceEditor.

The tools and most of the samples will now keep their config and data file
info in the "pythoncard_config" directory created by the framework. On Unix,
the directory will be ~/pythoncard_config. On Windows, the directory varies
as described in the following post:

http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Mail/Message/PythonCard/1496793

So, if you run a PythonCard app with any of the runtime tools and select
"Save Configuration" from the "Debug" menu, the window positions and sizes
of your runtime windows (Shell, Message Watcher, etc.) will be saved in
"pythoncard_config/pythoncard_config.txt" not the PythonCardPrototype
directory. Likewise, when you change the text style used by the codeEditor
via the "Styles..." menu item under the "Format" menu, the modification will
be saved in "pythoncard_config/stc-styles.rc.cfg"

ka
---
Kevin Altis
altis at semi-retired.com
http://altis.pycs.net/


Release 0.7.3.1 2004-04-09
added _getId back to widget.py
menu.py workaround for FindMenuItem and GTK exception
updated MANIFEST.in and setup.py for PyPI/distutils
added testevents sample for debugging cross-platform
   event order

Release 0.7.3 2004-04-03
changed py2exe scripts for version 0.5 syntax
dropped support of PyCrust in wxPython 2.4.0.7 and earlier
added check to avoid unneeded widget initialization
added TextArea workaround for GetValue on the Mac
McPC and RanchBiz added to moreapplications.html
added lowercase skip alias for Skip to dispatch.py
switched to mixedCase style names for BitmapCanvas
added new-style class properties to Background and
   CustomDialog classes: position, size, etc.
added leading underscore to addEventListener and
   notifyEventListeners methods
changed _getAttributeNames to use inspect module
updated Windows installation docs for Python 2.3
   and wxPython 2.4.2.4
added explicit Stop() for timers when app is closed
added donations.html
fixed default Mac menubar handling
converted legacy class name comparisons to __class__.__name__
removed RightTextField component, use TextField with
       'alignment':'right' attribute instead
many modifications to support wxPython 2.5 and higher
   in general, just look for code starting with
     if wx.wxVERSION > (2, 5):
   to see the version specific changes
   also modified spacers for sizers to use tuples instead of
     separate w, h args
   some items are marked with a "wxPython 2.5 change" comment
all changes are being done so that release 0.7.3 will work
   with wxPython 2.4.x or wxPython 2.5.x or higher
   future releases may drop support for wxPython 2.4.x
EXIF.py updated to remove Python 2.3 warnings
added support for Python 2.3 .chm file on Windows




From roy at panix.com  Thu Apr  1 21:00:40 2004
From: roy at panix.com (Roy Smith)
Date: Thu, 01 Apr 2004 21:00:40 -0500
Subject: Timeline plots with Python
References: <c4igoa$2tr$1@news.Stanford.EDU>
Message-ID: <roy-BD5DBA.21003701042004@reader1.panix.com>

In article <c4igoa$2tr$1 at news.Stanford.EDU>,
 "Andy Salnikov" <a_salnikov at yahoo.com> wrote:

> Hi all,
> 
> does anybody knows any plotting library which can do nice timeline plots?
> Python is preffered, but not strictly necessary. Standalone utility might
> also be OK if one can feed some data from a script into it.

Check out gnuplot.


From me at privacy.net  Wed Apr 28 12:22:39 2004
From: me at privacy.net (Duncan Booth)
Date: 28 Apr 2004 16:22:39 GMT
Subject: Path ... where is my application's home dir?
References: <mailman.81.1083164606.25742.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <Xns94D9B0A6BEE74duncanrcpcouk@127.0.0.1>

Tim Golden <tim.golden at viacom-outdoor.co.uk> wrote in 
news:mailman.81.1083164606.25742.python-list at python.org:

>>And yes, the best place to store this information would be in 
>>the user's 
>>home dir, but then: Where is it? How to find it under Windows - every 
>>version of windows changes the place for home dirs. It would 
>>be nice to 
>>have something like this in a system/version independet way:
>>
>>sys.users_home_dir
>>
>>Is there anything like it in Python?
> 
> There's nothing that strictly does that. You could
> use os.path.expanduser ("~") but in Windows (at least
> on my Win2K box) it returns "c:/" which is just about
> acceptable for a one-user machine, but obviously not
> for multi-user.
> 
> The usual way to do this on Windows is to use the
> winshell functions from pywin32:
> 
><code>
> from win32com.shell import shell, shellcon
> print shell.SHGetPathFromIDList (
>   shell.SHGetSpecialFolderLocation (0, shellcon.CSIDL_APPDATA)
> )
></code>
> 
> which, on my machine, gives:
> 
> C:\Documents and Settings\goldent\Application Data

A simpler way to get the same information:

import os
print os.environ['APPDATA']



From mwh at python.net  Fri Apr 23 06:31:33 2004
From: mwh at python.net (Michael Hudson)
Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2004 10:31:33 GMT
Subject: python web programming / CMS
References: <EOOhc.82192$A9.5538906@phobos.telenet-ops.be>
	<mailman.910.1082637637.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<XnQhc.82310$X%7.5425202@phobos.telenet-ops.be>
	<0kVhc.54316$eB7.29255@newssvr25.news.prodigy.com>
	<9YWhc.82882$%l7.5377160@phobos.telenet-ops.be>
Message-ID: <m3fzavnfy3.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk>

"flupke" <flupke at nonexistingdomain.com> writes:

> I know that with OpenCMS, i could make html pages with jsp
> code inside. Is that also possible in Plone/Zope? I mean having plone
> process pages with embedded Python through modpython or Spyce?

Er.  I'm not sure that really makes sense.

> Or is plone going to send the pages to Zope?

Or that :-)

> That's a part that's not yet clear for me.

You can certainly do dynamic content with Zope/Plone, using Page
Templates and TAL and Scripts (Python) and so on (indeed, quite a
large portion of Plone is a collection of Page Templates and Python
scripts).  It's probably possible to use Plone and Spyce at the same
time, but I can't see why you'd want to.

Cheers,
mwh
PS: Page Templates rule.

-- 
  I think if we have the choice, I'd rather we didn't explicitly put
  flaws in the reST syntax for the sole purpose of not insulting the
  almighty.                                    -- /will on the doc-sig


From http  Sun Apr  4 16:25:41 2004
From: http (Paul Rubin)
Date: 04 Apr 2004 13:25:41 -0700
Subject: Siginificant figures calculating zprob
References: <9405c70f.0404031852.155d17d5@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <7xu0zz4hiy.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

sarah_wang23 at hotmail.com (Sarah Wang) writes:
> But the problem is that the function calculates the result
> with only a few significant figures. If I want to get the 
> 20th number of the result(z-prob) what should I do? I want
> to get the confidence level of "6sigma" and all I get at the
> moment is "1".

6 sigma is a marketing term.  The number you want is on the order of
10**-9, so it describes something almost never seen in real life.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Six_Sigma

> I remember that Python's long type has unlimited number of
> significant figures as long as the memory allows. What about
> floating point numbers?

That's for integers only.  Some math libraries have a function called
"erfc" (complementary error function) which does what you want.  You
can evaluate it to arbitrary precision in a system like Mathematica.
I think the number you want is 0.5*erfc(6/sqrt(2)) which according to the
Emacs calculator "calc" is 9.86587644935e-10.


From NAVMSE-EXCHSERVER1 at Scanbech.com  Mon Apr 12 20:18:11 2004
From: NAVMSE-EXCHSERVER1 at Scanbech.com (NAV for Microsoft Exchange-EXCHSERVER1)
Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2004 02:18:11 +0200
Subject: Norton AntiVirus detected a virus in a message you sent.  The inf
	ected attachment was deleted.
Message-ID: <BB1F68509887D311BE810090278D33E6EF49A3@exchserver1.scanbech.com>

Recipient of the infected attachment:  Marie Petersen\Inbox
Subject of the message:  Re: Improved document
One or more attachments were deleted
  Attachment improved_document4.pif was Deleted for the following reasons:
    Virus W32.Netsky.T at mm was found.
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: not available
Type: application/ms-tnef
Size: 1823 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/attachments/20040413/bfe6ac49/attachment.bin>

From sjf at autograf.pl  Tue Apr 27 07:49:37 2004
From: sjf at autograf.pl (..:: sjf ::..)
Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2004 13:49:37 +0200
Subject: Regular Expressions
References: <c6j0ht$ed0$1@atlantis.news.tpi.pl>
	<c6j3sc$br0hn$1@ID-111250.news.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <c6lhh8$dsi$1@nemesis.news.tpi.pl>

pewnego dnia niejaki Diez B. Roggisch deetsNOSPAM at web.de wstuka? by? ;-)
>> <FONT COLOR="#FF0000">A - TYPE1: any_text<BR>
>> B - TYPE2: any_text_2<BR>
>> C - TYPE2: any_text_3<BR>
>> w - any_text_15<BR>
>> </FONT>
>> html code
>> </BODY></HTML>
>> I need to have only following data:
>> (B, any_text_2)
>> (C, any_text_3)
>> that is, these data TYPE2 in which.
> you should utilize the htmlparser class to extract the text first. Then
> this regular expression might help:
> r"(.) TYPE. : (.*)"

Thanks. And now, let's assume that I have a following strings:
S1 = "B - TYPE2: any_text_2 TYPE3: any_text_23"
S2 = "C - TYPE2: any_text_3"

and I want to have one regular expression that produce only following data:
("B", "any_text_2")
("C", "any_text_3")
that is, any characters starting TYPE3 till end will be omitted.
How do make this?

-- 
.:: sjf ::..
"Linux is like Wigwam. No gates, no windows... Apache inside ;-)"


From newsgroups at jhrothjr.com  Sat Apr 10 15:03:19 2004
From: newsgroups at jhrothjr.com (John Roth)
Date: Sat, 10 Apr 2004 15:03:19 -0400
Subject: Static Data?
References: <2FTdc.56817$Id.5813@news-binary.blueyonder.co.uk>
Message-ID: <107gh8pf4qlc6c9@news.supernews.com>

"Stevie_mac" <no.email at please.com> wrote in message
news:2FTdc.56817$Id.5813 at news-binary.blueyonder.co.uk...
> I need to have a static class data member like c (see semi pseudo-like
code below). How can I achieve this?

You want an updatable class member. There are two ways
of doing this.

1) Reference the class directly:

class MyObject:
    _id = 0

    def __init__(self):
        MyObject._id += 1
        self.ID = _id

2) use a class method:

class MyObject(object):
    _id = 0

    def nextID(klas):
        klas._id += 1
        return klas._id
    nextID = classmethod(nextID)

    def __init__(self):
        self.ID = self.nextID()

Method 1 works in all releases of Python. Method 2
requires release 2.2 or later.

HTH

John Roth




From flupke at nonexistingdomain.com  Fri Apr 23 07:22:14 2004
From: flupke at nonexistingdomain.com (flupke)
Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2004 11:22:14 GMT
Subject: python web programming / CMS
References: <EOOhc.82192$A9.5538906@phobos.telenet-ops.be>
	<mailman.910.1082637637.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<XnQhc.82310$X%7.5425202@phobos.telenet-ops.be>
	<0kVhc.54316$eB7.29255@newssvr25.news.prodigy.com>
	<9YWhc.82882$%l7.5377160@phobos.telenet-ops.be>
	<m3fzavnfy3.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <G%6ic.83378$s6.5442626@phobos.telenet-ops.be>

"Michael Hudson" <mwh at python.net> schreef in bericht
news:m3fzavnfy3.fsf at pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk...

> You can certainly do dynamic content with Zope/Plone, using Page
> Templates and TAL and Scripts (Python) and so on (indeed, quite a
> large portion of Plone is a collection of Page Templates and Python
> scripts).  It's probably possible to use Plone and Spyce at the same
> time, but I can't see why you'd want to.

The reason why i would want to use Plone and Spyce is that Spyce
provides an easy way to include/embed python code in a html file like
one would do with a jsp page.
I don't think that Plone supports something like that or at least not
that nice but i could be wrong.

flupke




From jbperez808 at yahoo.com  Sat Apr 10 01:09:52 2004
From: jbperez808 at yahoo.com (Jon Perez)
Date: Sat, 10 Apr 2004 13:09:52 +0800
Subject: Indent testers needed (Prothon)
In-Reply-To: <60dfb6f6.0404091317.4875c203@posting.google.com>
References: <Unqbc.131025$cx5.57643@fed1read04>
	<c51rpj$2nk5rd$1@ID-180326.news.uni-berlin.de>
	<tyf3c7ewvlz.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
	<c55era$2p4mnp$1@ID-180326.news.uni-berlin.de>
	<60dfb6f6.0404091317.4875c203@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <c57v70$2o6bl8$1@ID-180326.news.uni-berlin.de>

Carl Banks wrote:

> Jon Perez <jbperez808 at yahoo.com> wrote in message news:<c55era$2p4mnp$1 at ID-180326.news.uni-berlin.de>...
>
>>Jacek Generowicz wrote:
>>
>>
>>>>Perhaps the pro-spaces people can explain how they deal
>>>>with it.
>>>
>>>Emacs
>>
>>Asking people to stop switch away from their favorite editors
> 
> 
> He wasn't doing that, bub.

My point is that it is a flippant answer that really doesn't
help.  The pro-tabs people have their reasons for not liking
all spaces, and telling them that Emacs is how some of us are
able to live with all spaces achieves nothing.  I'm sure there
Emacs users who still can't get used to all-spaces as well as
pro-spaces people who don't need to use Emacs to prefer them
(like me).

I am pro all spaces, and the reason I can't stand tabs is
the fact that tab width settings are not the same across
different source code and that leads to code that's doesn't
display properly with cat (if it doesn't use 8 space tabs) or
with my default editor settings (I have to keep switching as
there's no such thing as autodetect tabwidth).

If the pro-tabs people explained to me how they deal with this,
then maybe I wouldn't so anti-tabs.  The converse applies to
them - I'd like to hear what it is about all spaces that's giving
them grief and maybe I can tell them how I deal with it (in a
non editor-specific way as much as possible).

It may not convince everyone on either side to switch religion,
but the hope is that it would make dealing with source code that
uses the opposite convention more palatable.


From Bill.Scherer at VerizonWireless.com  Thu Apr 15 11:26:57 2004
From: Bill.Scherer at VerizonWireless.com (Bill Scherer)
Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2004 11:26:57 -0400
Subject: Python 2.3 on RedHat 9
Message-ID: <407EA9C1.2090400@VerizonWireless.com>



Stephen Ng wrote:

> Hi!
>
> Has anyone installed Python 2.3 on RedHat 9? 

Yes.

> Did you install on top of Python 2.2 or did you install in a separate 
> directory (eg the default)? 

2.3 prefix is /usr/local, RedHat's installed python prefix is /usr

> I'm trying to find out in advance if it's hassle free to install as I 
> am planning to do it. 

It's no hassle having them side by side, for me anyway.

>
>
> Thanks.
>
> Stephen Ng 


HTH,

Bill




From newsgroups at jhrothjr.com  Sat Apr 10 10:13:24 2004
From: newsgroups at jhrothjr.com (John Roth)
Date: Sat, 10 Apr 2004 10:13:24 -0400
Subject: automatically generating file dependency information frompython
	tools
References: <bhFdc.50011$bE2.25447@newssvr25.news.prodigy.com>
	<mailman.494.1081551025.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<vnHdc.50052$rz3.17101@newssvr25.news.prodigy.com>
Message-ID: <107g088n81i0gc8@news.supernews.com>


"Moosebumps" <moosebumps at moosebumps.com> wrote in message
news:vnHdc.50052$rz3.17101 at newssvr25.news.prodigy.com...
> >
> > In answer to the question you /almost/ asked:
> >
> > http://www.google.com/search?q=python+make+replacement
> >
>
> That is definitely of interest to me, but I would want to go one step
> further and automatically generate the dependency info.  I haven't looked
> specifically at these make replacements, but I would assume you have to
use
> a makefile or specify dependency info in some form like a text file.  What
I
> am looking for is a way to automatically generate it from the source code
of
> the individual tools that the make program will run, or by running the
tools
> in some special mode where they just spit out which files they will
> read/write.

SCons is what you want, then. It's got a scanner built in that can
be subclassed to scan anything to pull out dependency information
on the fly. Converting a build monstrosity to SCons isn't exactly
simple, but it's a lot simpler than any of the alternatives I can think
of.

John Roth
>
> MB
>
>




From donn at u.washington.edu  Mon Apr 26 13:45:11 2004
From: donn at u.washington.edu (Donn Cave)
Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2004 10:45:11 -0700
Subject: Why we will use obj$func() often
References: <d2Uhc.22272$dZ1.1600@fed1read04> <84Uhc.22278$dZ1.5087@fed1read04>
	<mailman.927.1082665370.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<8AWhc.23114$dZ1.11070@fed1read04> <40883BFE.B381518A@alcyone.com>
	<27_hc.23801$dZ1.2716@fed1read04> <40887145.789A2FE8@alcyone.com>
	<7cki80hj976bia36lhf9er97v073o1pqvm@4ax.com>
	<w8dic.28710$dZ1.11206@fed1read04> <ulXiAls/KH1K089yn@the-wire.com>
	<lkfic.29767$dZ1.17301@fed1read04>
	<donn-66132E.15345723042004@nntp3.u.washington.edu>
	<PLhic.30493$dZ1.22063@fed1read04> <1082783076.585831@yasure>
	<Tunic.32387$dZ1.12932@fed1read04>
	<c6hvdk$bs63j$1@ID-169208.news.uni-berlin.de>
	<SN%ic.37580$dZ1.14964@fed1read04>
	<mailman.7.1082955858.25742.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <donn-3A6032.10451126042004@nntp6.u.washington.edu>

In article <mailman.7.1082955858.25742.python-list at python.org>,
 "Mike C. Fletcher" <mcfletch at rogers.com> wrote:
...
> How about:
> 
>     .this (surrounding scope, often an object)
>     ..this (surrounding scope + 1, such as a module or a nested-class' 
> parent

Now this sounds like runtime namespace lookup.  Consider
  def g():
      print .x
  def f():
      x = 5
      g()

That prints 5, right?  Not, I suppose, but that's how object
"scope" works.  Nested function scope is at least to some extent
inherently lexical, the way we normally expect it to work - you're
referring to outer code blocks, not just any caller's namespace.

> Seems elegant in a certain way.  The construct is reminiscent of 
> directory specifiers, and meshes nicely with the attribute access 
> syntax.  Gets a little unwieldy if you're having hugely nested 
> constructs, but then that's already unwieldy, so more pain too them :) .

I still think elegant is not possible when this lexical notion
of scope is bolted onto a runtime namespace lookup system (dynamic
scope.)  (I cringe with fear when I use these terms, but I swear
I did look the Lisp definitions up.)

Consider
  def f():
      x = 5
      def g():
          print x
      x = 7
      return g
  t = f()
  t()

Does it print 5 or 7?  Of course, we know it's going to be 7,
because we understand this system and know how to use it, but
I'm saying this is perverse in terms of what people ought to
need to understand.  (I also think it's an unfortunate feature
to have to support, if it means preserving f()'s entire local
scope dictionary for the lifetime of t.)

But I admit my approach might not allow what I imagine people
would expect in places, either.  Suppose in the above, f invoked
g instead of returning it.  Then (I think) many would want x to
be 7 in g.  My `until a better idea comes along' response would
be `too bad, use a function parameter', and I can talk about the
value of this attitude towards programming, but I don't have
enough charisma to make it popular.  Similarly, I would certainly
not allow any function to rebind variables in the caller.

   Donn Cave, donn at u.washington.edu


From ramen at lackingtalent.com  Fri Apr 30 17:55:57 2004
From: ramen at lackingtalent.com (Dave Benjamin)
Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2004 21:55:57 -0000
Subject: Simple prototyping in Python
References: <slrnc938vm.1v0.ramen@lackingtalent.com>
	<69cbbef2.0404300855.20dd436b@posting.google.com>
	<1095h4vc89hmcf@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <slrnc95jgn.beh.ramen@lackingtalent.com>

In article <1095h4vc89hmcf at corp.supernews.com>, Michael Geary wrote:
> As with any other object, you can put functions as well as data in an object
> literal, e.g.:
> 
> var o =
> {
>     a: 5,
>     incr: function() { return ++this.a },
> }
> 
> o.incr() will return 6, 7, 8, etc. if you call it repeatedly.

Hey, I never knew that "this" could be used inside of an anonymous object
in JavaScript. Thanks for pointing that out!

In Python, you'd have to give the object a name, since there's no "self" to
refer to. For instance (using the "obj" and "do" functions I defined earlier):

def f():
    o = obj(a=5, incr=lambda: do(o.set('a', o.a + 1), o.a))
    return o

>>> o = f()
>>> o.a
5
>>> o.incr()
6
>>> o.incr()
7

Not exactly elegant, but not totally atrocious either...

-- 
.:[ dave benjamin: ramen/[sp00] -:- spoomusic.com -:- ramenfest.com ]:.
:  please talk to your son or daughter about parametric polymorphism. :


From mcfletch at rogers.com  Mon Apr 26 01:03:58 2004
From: mcfletch at rogers.com (Mike C. Fletcher)
Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2004 01:03:58 -0400
Subject: Why we will use obj$func() often
In-Reply-To: <SN%ic.37580$dZ1.14964@fed1read04>
References: <d2Uhc.22272$dZ1.1600@fed1read04>
	<84Uhc.22278$dZ1.5087@fed1read04>	<mailman.927.1082665370.20120.python-list@python.org>	<8AWhc.23114$dZ1.11070@fed1read04>
	<40883BFE.B381518A@alcyone.com>	<27_hc.23801$dZ1.2716@fed1read04>
	<40887145.789A2FE8@alcyone.com>	<7cki80hj976bia36lhf9er97v073o1pqvm@4ax.com>	<w8dic.28710$dZ1.11206@fed1read04>
	<ulXiAls/KH1K089yn@the-wire.com>	<lkfic.29767$dZ1.17301@fed1read04>	<donn-66132E.15345723042004@nntp3.u.washington.edu>	<PLhic.30493$dZ1.22063@fed1read04>
	<1082783076.585831@yasure>	<Tunic.32387$dZ1.12932@fed1read04>	<c6hvdk$bs63j$1@ID-169208.news.uni-berlin.de>
	<SN%ic.37580$dZ1.14964@fed1read04>
Message-ID: <408C983E.1070101@rogers.com>

Mark Hahn wrote:

>"Greg Ewing" <greg at cosc.canterbury.ac.nz> wrote in message
>news:c6hvdk$bs63j$1 at ID-169208.news.uni-berlin.de...
>  
>
>>Mark Hahn wrote:
>>    
>>
...

>You cannot.  Yes it literally means the immediately surrounding function.
>In your example, I can't think of any scheme we've discussed that accesses x
>in function f.  Python surely cannot.
>  
>
Well, not yet, it was explicitly not implemented until something elegant 
came along IIRC.

>I understand this is quite limiting, but it's simple. As always, I'm open to
>suggestions...
>  
>
How about:

    .this (surrounding scope, often an object)
    ..this (surrounding scope + 1, such as a module or a nested-class' 
parent

Seems elegant in a certain way.  The construct is reminiscent of 
directory specifiers, and meshes nicely with the attribute access 
syntax.  Gets a little unwieldy if you're having hugely nested 
constructs, but then that's already unwieldy, so more pain too them :) .

Have fun,
Mike

_______________________________________
  Mike C. Fletcher
  Designer, VR Plumber, Coder
  http://members.rogers.com/mcfletch/





From mr_organic at yourmamashouse.com  Thu Apr 15 17:12:36 2004
From: mr_organic at yourmamashouse.com (mr_organic)
Date: 15 Apr 2004 21:12:36 GMT
Subject: newbie question
References: <Xns94CCA389D3DA0plasticnospamplsxsin@216.77.188.18>
Message-ID: <c5mts40s05@news3.newsguy.com>

jeff <plastic"no-spam-pls"@xsintrk.net> wrote in
news:Xns94CCA389D3DA0plasticnospamplsxsin at 216.77.188.18: 

> ex:
> 
> a = "text str"
> if a == "text str": print a
> 
> why doesn't that work?  i couldn't find much help about variable types
> in the manual, does it need a property like a.text?
> 

If you're at the commandline, remember to push ENTER *twice* at the end of 
your last statement; a blank line causes the interpreter to execute your 
code.  I just used your code and it worked fine.

mr_organic


From tjreedy at udel.edu  Thu Apr 22 23:52:08 2004
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2004 23:52:08 -0400
Subject: AOP use cases
References: <cb035744.0404141130.170f51c4@posting.google.com><slrnc7sgat.vp.alf@largo.fayauffre.org><cb035744.0404160442.2f0b1661@posting.google.com><0pydnSB4WYuieuLdRVn-hQ@powergate.ca><tyfbrlkv3ae.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch><XYmdnVLB9rjbARrdRVn-vg@powergate.ca><tyf7jw8utoo.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch><c68fj5$7bt$1@news1.wdf.sap-ag.de><tyfvfjst2k9.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch><tyffzav62ux.fsf@lxplus054.cern.ch><mailman.934.1082681832.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<40888443$0$126$3a628fcd@reader3.nntp.hccnet.nl>
Message-ID: <c6a3t1$7hj$1@sea.gmane.org>


"Anton Vredegoor" <anton at vredegoor.doge.nl> wrote in message
news:40888443$0$126$3a628fcd at reader3.nntp.hccnet.nl...
> "Terry Reedy" <tjreedy at udel.edu> wrote:
>
> >Hmmm.  When I started this reply, I was going to emphasize that
'separating
> >concerns' is much less efficient than more directly writing
>
> The problem is *which* concerns are to be separated.
>
> def fgen():
>     #generate fibonacci sequence
>     a,b = 0,1
       # add yield a to define fib(0) as 0, as some do
>     while 1:
>         a,b = b,a+b
>         yield a

> def fib(n, L = [], g = fgen()):
>     #interface with fibonacci generator
>     if n < 0 :
>         return 1
>     while len(L) <= n:
>         L.append(g.next())
>     return L[n]

Nice.  Generalizing the wrapper gives

def listify(gen):
    it = gen()
    cache = []
    def func(n):
        while len(cache) <= n:
            cache.append(it.next())
        return cache[n]
    return func

fib = listify(fgen)

Alternative is
def listify(iterable):
   it = iter(iterable)
...
#which then requires
fib = listify(fgen())

I agree that separating and wrapping the function as generator or iterator
is even better that as regular function.  I have use for this.  Thanks.

Terry J. Reedy






From mday at apple.com  Tue Apr 20 21:00:31 2004
From: mday at apple.com (Mark Day)
Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 18:00:31 -0700
Subject: Generator inside a class prevent __del__ ??
References: <4085BA96.651D2E4A@free.fr>
Message-ID: <200420041800310664%mday@apple.com>

In article <4085BA96.651D2E4A at free.fr>, Emmanuel <eastier at free.fr>
wrote:

> >>> class toto:
>             def __init__(self):
>                 print "init"
>                 self.Coroutine = self.Gen()
>             def __del__(self):
>                 print "del"
>             def Gen(self):
>                 yield 1
> 
> >>> a = toto()
> init
> >>> c = []
>                 <--- Nothing there !!!

First of all, "a" is still referencing your toto object.  I think you
meant "a = []" here.  But even if you did "a = []", the destructor
still isn't called.  There must still be a reference to the object.  My
guess is that the generator (directly or indirectly) is referencing the
object, creating a self referential loop.

Consider the following modification that merely references a function,
and does not create a generator:

>>> class tata:
...     def __init__(self):
...             print "init"
...             self.Coroutine = self.Gen
...     def __del__(self):
...             print "del"
...     def Gen(self):
...             pass
... 
>>> a=tata()
init
>>> a=[]
>>>

Here's how to break that loop:

>>> b=tata()
init
>>> b.Coroutine=None
>>> b=[]
del
>>>

-Mark


From garryknight at gmx.net  Wed Apr 14 16:39:18 2004
From: garryknight at gmx.net (Garry Knight)
Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2004 21:39:18 +0100
Subject: Python for PocketPC (Dell Axim - XScale processor)
References: <b62b39cb.0404140919.25bbd97e@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <1081975157.10988.3@ersa.uk.clara.net>

In message <b62b39cb.0404140919.25bbd97e at posting.google.com>, Chris wrote:

> Is there a version of Python that will run on the PocketPC platform?
> Specifically I have an Axim X5 with Xscale processor...

PythonCE runs fine on my X5:

http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pythonce
http://www.murkworks.com/Research/Python/PythonCE/PythonCEWiki/FrontPage
http://fore.validus.com/~kashtan/

-- 
Garry Knight
garryknight at gmx.net  ICQ 126351135
Linux registered user 182025


From sr1419 at yahoo.com  Wed Apr 28 23:59:10 2004
From: sr1419 at yahoo.com (Mark Bauman)
Date: Wed, 28 Apr 2004 20:59:10 -0700
Subject: Tkinter and XML-RPC
Message-ID: <0jZjc.65$pw1.70887@news.uswest.net>

I'm new to Python (C/C++/Delphi background), and so far I'm impressed with
the language, libraries and community. Anyway, I've just started poking
around with Tkinter and I'm wondering if anyone has any tips or caveats on
incorporating an XML-RPC client and server inside a Tkinter app. I have an
application in mind that would primarily be dealing with short string
messages and the occasional jpeg, so I'm wondering about blocking and
threading issues within the confines of the GUI. I'm just starting to dig
into the detailed docs on Tkinter and the XLM-RPC library, but I thought I
would ask since I'm sure that some folks have been there, done that.

Regards,

Mark...




From no.email at please.com  Mon Apr 12 05:57:46 2004
From: no.email at please.com (Stevie_Mac)
Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2004 10:57:46 +0100
Subject: oopidstay outlookyay
References: <5Reec.62668$Id.61067@news-binary.blueyonder.co.uk>
	<mailman.537.1081743469.20120.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <uKtec.66658$Id.22657@news-binary.blueyonder.co.uk>

Oopsyay on the ultiplemay ostspay :)

"Paul Prescod" <paul at prescod.net> wrote in message
news:mailman.537.1081743469.20120.python-list at python.org...
> Stevie_mac wrote:
>
> > OS=XP, Python 2.3, wx2.5.1.5u
> > Not sure what's to blame here - or to be more precise, how to fix it!...
> >
> > If I do this in PythonWin...
> > import wx
> > d = wx.Dialog(None, -1, 'title')
> > BANG - IDE crashes
>
> It typically doesn't work to have two GUIs in one process. PythonWin
> uses MFC. Wx is a totally different GUI.
>
>   Paul Prescod
>
>
>




From oktaysafak at ixir.com  Sat Apr 24 18:11:23 2004
From: oktaysafak at ixir.com (Oktay Safak)
Date: Sun, 25 Apr 2004 01:11:23 +0300
Subject: ignore this post. just testing
References: <494182a9.0404241322.8f3ec0a@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <c6eo5t$7at$1@sea.gmane.org>

test


---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.667 / Virus Database: 429 - Release Date: 23.04.2004






From peter.schwalm at epost.de  Wed Apr  7 08:52:17 2004
From: peter.schwalm at epost.de (Peter Schwalm)
Date: 7 Apr 2004 05:52:17 -0700
Subject: Customizing the python search path depending on source directory
References: <5cf809e9.0404061853.41cd3c85@posting.google.com>
	<BbudnT8dYIUS8u7dRVn-vw@powergate.ca>
Message-ID: <5cf809e9.0404070452.643b7053@posting.google.com>

Peter Hansen <peter at engcorp.com> wrote in message news:> >
.... 
> >     a) the source directory of the script is still not in sys.path
> 
> Are you sure?  Looking at site.py, it appears that the sitecustomize
> import is done next-to-last, just before sys.setdefaultencoding is
> deleted.  If you concluded this by examining sys.path manually at
> the point just as sitecustomize is imported, maybe you don't know
> that the '' entry in sys.path actually represents the source
> directory of the main script...

Thank you for your answer. But I'm afraid it's not the source
directory but the current working directory. You can see the
difference if you copy the passage

    "for ix1, p1 in enumerate(sys.path): print "%02.02d: %s" % (ix1,
p1)"

to a "normal script". If you start that "normal script" from a
directory other than the source directory, you can see that both
directories are included in sys.path. If you run this code inside
sitecustomize.py this is not the case.

Thank you
Peter


From carroll at nospam-tjc.com  Fri Apr 16 02:10:58 2004
From: carroll at nospam-tjc.com (Terry Carroll)
Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2004 23:10:58 -0700
Subject: Python Documentation Blows!
References: <40699A31.8000708@yahoo.com>
	<20040330161531.GA17112@vulcan.cprogrammer.org>
	<mailman.135.1080674367.20120.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <86uu70phciv8arhieh3gv51dbf0i33f9ir@4ax.com>

On Tue, 30 Mar 2004 11:19:21 -0800, Michael
<mogmios at mlug.missouri.edu> wrote:


>wxPython would be my example of some of the worst (non-existant) 
>documentation available for Python while PyGame would be my example of 
>some of the best.

The state of wxPython's documentation is the major factor that's kept
me from trying it.


From jacek.generowicz at cern.ch  Thu Apr 22 08:09:43 2004
From: jacek.generowicz at cern.ch (Jacek Generowicz)
Date: 22 Apr 2004 14:09:43 +0200
Subject: AOP use cases
References: <84fc4588.0404140106.3fa0c55@posting.google.com>
	<slrnc7q1ss.1aa.alf@largo.fayauffre.org>
	<cb035744.0404141130.170f51c4@posting.google.com>
	<slrnc7sgat.vp.alf@largo.fayauffre.org>
	<cb035744.0404160442.2f0b1661@posting.google.com>
	<0pydnSB4WYuieuLdRVn-hQ@powergate.ca>
	<tyfbrlkv3ae.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
	<XYmdnVLB9rjbARrdRVn-vg@powergate.ca>
	<108f99vgg6ub501@news.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <tyf3c6wusc8.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>

"John Roth" <newsgroups at jhrothjr.com> writes:

> there are no, and I mean no, examples of composable programs where
> there was no planning on making it happen.

Aaah, yes, Proof by Ignorance[*], one of my favourite logical tools :-)


[*] I don't know a programming language whose name starts with "P" and
    ends with "n", therefore none exist. QED[+]


[+] Best used in conjunction with Proof by Projection: None exist now,
    therefore none have existed in the past, and none will exist in
    the future. Ignorance is a powreful tool.


From op73418 at mail.telepac.pt  Mon Apr  5 11:29:17 2004
From: op73418 at mail.telepac.pt (Gonçalo Rodrigues)
Date: Mon, 05 Apr 2004 16:29:17 +0100
Subject: Using function parameters to determine method kind
References: <4qrzym6e.fsf@telus.net>
	<95aa1afa.0404050417.2d11b369@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <knu270d99b9b1i9pcsj1vkchp86gemje6k@4ax.com>

On 5 Apr 2004 05:17:39 -0700, michele.simionato at poste.it (Michele
Simionato) wrote:

[text snipped]

>I am also waiting for a better "super" but it seems nobody is talking 
>about it.

Well then, here is your chance: what are the problems of super? I also
found that it has a couple of glitches, but I'd like to know more.

With my best regards,
G. Rodrigues


From paul at prescod.net  Mon Apr 12 00:01:59 2004
From: paul at prescod.net (Paul Prescod)
Date: Sun, 11 Apr 2004 21:01:59 -0700
Subject: Is there a boolean(somestring) equivalent of int(somestring).
 bool('false') -> True
In-Reply-To: <KPENJIMKHJPNKOLFIHBNIEKLCGAA.vineet@eswap.com>
References: <KPENJIMKHJPNKOLFIHBNIEKLCGAA.vineet@eswap.com>
Message-ID: <407A14B7.2030603@prescod.net>

Vineet Jain wrote:

> Thanks for the code suggestion.
> 
> From what I've read, most people (including me) are attracted to Python
> because of how natural it is. Give that is a high priority for the language
> designers:
> 
> How can anyone argue that
> 
> bool('false') = True
> 
> is more natural (and what you would expect) than
> 
> bool('false') = False

For most (all?) built-in types there is one and only one false value. If 
you start to accept multiple false values then you run into the types of 
problems Perl programmers run into. You write code like this:

a = input()
if a:
	...
else:
	...

And knowing what it does requires you to keep in mind ALL of the false 
values for the type. So you test your program with one dataset and one 
day another of the false values pops up and your program behaves 
incorrectly. Python's rule is simpler.

> Having just got over the surprise that int('2.1') fails while
> int(float('2.1')) works the above surprises me even more. If the int case
> was rejected because it is 'better to be explicit than not' then how can you
> bool('false') be allowed??

"false" is just a random English word. The Python builtin is called 
"False".

> Booleans are associated with (True, on, 1 and yes) and bool() on any them
> should return True.

Maybe in your mind. What about "true", "TRUE", "oui", "1.0", "positive" 
and "yeah". How far do you intend to go? Name a single language or 
system that treats "True", "on", "1" and "yes" as positive values and 
"False", "off", "0" and "no" as negative values. If Python started 
guessing what strings are vaguely affirmative, people would always 
"expect" it to read their minds just a little bit more effectively than 
it does. The current rule is very simple: the empty string is false. All 
others are true. It is trivially easy for you to redefine conversion to 
boolean for any particular data set:

def mybool():
	return mystring=="oui"

  Paul Prescod





From http  Mon Apr 12 18:48:34 2004
From: http (Paul Rubin)
Date: 12 Apr 2004 15:48:34 -0700
Subject: OO Bug needs squashing
References: <35f7b657.0404121341.6acb8a52@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <7xlll0dd8d.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

billybugmaster at yahoo.com (nick) writes:

> class Day:
> 	name = None
> 	events = []
> 	eventD = {}

I think you mean:

    class Day:
       def __init__(self):
          self.name = None
          self.events = []
          self.eventD = {}

and similarly for the Event class.

That creates those attributes in each newly-created instance.  The way
you have it, it makes attributes on the entire class, not separately
for each instance.


From nelson at monkey.org  Thu Apr  8 11:52:01 2004
From: nelson at monkey.org (Nelson Minar)
Date: Thu, 08 Apr 2004 15:52:01 GMT
Subject: print u"\u0432": why is this so hard? UnciodeEncodeError
References: <cpa4qrvb529.fsf@cabernet.nelson.monkey.org>
	<c52lu9$j8c$03$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <cpak70qv55w.fsf@cabernet.nelson.monkey.org>

Thanks for your answers.

"Martin v. L?wis" <martin at v.loewis.de> writes:
>As you have discovered, this is not so simple. Printing this character
>might not be possible at all

I know. I'm just trying to figure out an expedient way to get Python
to make a best effort.

> When you redirect the output to a file, it is not a terminal anymore,
> and Python cannot guess the encoding.

So when Python can't guess the encoding, it assumes that ASCII is the
best it can do? Even as an American that annoys me; what do folks who
need non-ASCII do in practice? Martin, what do you do when you write a
Python script that prints your own name?

I guess what I'd like is a way to set Python's default encoding and
have that respected for files, terminals, etc. I'd also like some way
to override the Unicode error mode. 'strict' is the right default, but
I'd like the option to do 'ignore' or 'replace' globally.

> Assigning sys.stdout is the right thing to do. I'm uncertain why
> that could be an awful lot of work, as you do this only once...

Now that I know the trick I can do it. But part of the joy of Python
is that it makes simple things simple. For a beginner to the language
having to learn about the difference between sys.stdout and
sys.__stdout__ seems a bit much.


From eric at zomething.com  Fri Apr  2 00:59:08 2004
From: eric at zomething.com (Eric @ Zomething)
Date: Thu, 1 Apr 2004 21:59:08 -0800
Subject: Stackless Website down, Project gone, I'm dead.
Message-ID: <20040401215908.1792931349.eric@zomething.com>

Christian Tismer wrote:

> Dear Former Stackless Users,
> 
> I have to use this list to announce something really bad to you,
> since all the Stackless lists are defunct:
> 
> The Stackless project is finally dead, now and forever.
> 

[snip]

> p.s.: I've taken the capsule, short time ago.
> p.p.s.: This message was sent to you on April 2, to make
> sure that it is not misinterpreted as a bad April 1 joke.
> The bad joke was about that bad intruder. See you soon,
> in heaven or somehwere else :-)


Well, Christian's post was sent April 2nd (per the header), but it arrived here April 1st.  I have little notion of the time-space groundrules for April Fools over the Internet continuum, but I hope this was a joke; perhaps (-1*(-1*(joke))).

The deduping code shared the other day was, I thought, inspired.

the whole April Fools thing leaves me spinning for 24 hours: the joke within the joke, within the joke:

>>> def Fool(AprilFirst):
	if AprilFirst:
		print "April Fools"
		serious = 0
	else:
		print "No, I'm serious"
		serious =1
	Fool(serious)
	return "April 2nd"

>>> April=1
>>> Fool(April)
April Fools
No, I'm serious
April Fools
No, I'm serious
April Fools
No, I'm serious
April Fools
No, I'm serious
April Fools
No, I'm serious
April Fools
No, I'm serious
April Fools
No, I'm serious
April Fools
No, I'm serious
April Fools
No, I'm serious
.
.
.

[where is April 2nd?]






From peter at engcorp.com  Thu Apr 29 11:07:47 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Thu, 29 Apr 2004 11:07:47 -0400
Subject: MATLAB2Python
In-Reply-To: <3064b51d.0404290654.58e59124@posting.google.com>
References: <D2Xjc.28117$Qc.1080799@twister1.libero.it>
	<3064b51d.0404290654.58e59124@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <ocednUUxqajZhwzdRVn-vw@powergate.ca>

beliavsky at aol.com wrote:

> The Fortran standards committee takes
> backwards compatibility much more seriously, so that code you write
> now will not take on a new meaning in future versions of the language.

This is an unfair characterization.  They most certainly take
backwards compatibility *seriously*, but perhaps they put a
higher value on making changes that, in their opinion, make
significant improvements to the language, or fix serious
mistakes they made in the original.  Maybe that's a reason
that Python is being adopted more, while FORTRAN growth is, uh,
somewhat flat.

I really doubt they sit around in their plush leather chairs,
stroking their long-haired Persian cats, and saying "But won't
that break old code?  Yes, but screw the scientific programmers,
BWAHAHAHAHA...."

But I could be wrong.

-Peter


From Mike at DeleteThis.Geary.com  Mon Apr  5 20:44:55 2004
From: Mike at DeleteThis.Geary.com (Michael Geary)
Date: Mon, 5 Apr 2004 17:44:55 -0700
Subject: Using python23 to develop an extension for an application that
	has python22 embedded
References: <aoa370h2r58lgb00jn9o1nfpg2titdgoss@4ax.com>
	<1073eeubflmchd5@corp.supernews.com>
	<o2g3709fpgp50sn561h0vf5e2dd6hcuo7g@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <1073vcag51uufe9@corp.supernews.com>

John Underwood wrote:
> I have both 2.2 and 2.3 installed on my computer. My problem has to do
> with Visual Studio .NET which will build 2.3 but will not build 2.2.
> (MS removed largeint.h which is required by pythoncore in 2.2 when
> they went from Visual C++ 6 to VS.NET. I tried supplying largeint.h to
> VS.NET but that did not work.)
>
> Since I cannot build 2.2, I do not have python22.dll or python22_d.dll
> (the debug version). (They are not shipped with python you have to
> produce them yourself.)

The executable Python installer for Windows does install pythonXX.dll. You
should find python22.dll and python23.dll in your Windows system32
directory.

Do you need python22_d.dll at all? I would think you'd need it only if you
were actually debugging the Python interpreter itself. I've never needed a
debug version of the Python DLL to debug ordinary Python code.

> The commercial application to which I need to add an extension has
> python22.dll in its runtime folder. I have no control over this
> application and have to use whichever version they have chosen.

Paint Shop Pro?

> Since I do have python23.dll and python23_d.dll (from a successful
> build of 2.3), can I use these to develop an extension for the
> aforementioned commercial application if I stay away from any new
> features in 2.3 (but not in 2.2)?

Are you talking about source code compatibility only? Sure, as long as you
use only language features available in both the old and new versions. You
can't use .pyc bytecode files from one version with a different version.

Anyway, I must be missing something here, because I would think you could
simply develop with your installed Python 2.2 and run the code under your
target application. You shouldn't have to be worrying about any of the stuff
you're dealing with.

-Mike




From greg at cosc.canterbury.ac.nz  Fri Apr 16 00:46:18 2004
From: greg at cosc.canterbury.ac.nz (Greg Ewing)
Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2004 16:46:18 +1200
Subject: raise Exception Syntax question
In-Reply-To: <c573s4$oqi$03$1@news.t-online.com>
References: <c573s4$oqi$03$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <c5noes$3preh$1@ID-169208.news.uni-berlin.de>

chris wrote:
>  >>> import exceptions
>  >>> e = exceptions.Exception

There's actually no need to import exceptions, since
all the standard exception names are built-in. I
think the exceptions module is just there for
historical compatibility.

>  >>> raise e("MESSAGE")

This is the preferred form. Again, the other one
only exists for historical reasons.

-- 
Greg Ewing, Computer Science Dept,
University of Canterbury,	
Christchurch, New Zealand
http://www.cosc.canterbury.ac.nz/~greg



From mlh at furu.idi.ntnu.no  Fri Apr 23 11:47:09 2004
From: mlh at furu.idi.ntnu.no (Magnus Lie Hetland)
Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2004 15:47:09 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Regexp optimization question
References: <slrnc8gal3.9da.mlh@furu.idi.ntnu.no>
	<c69b42$9f6eq$1@ID-99293.news.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <slrnc8iejt.7j7.mlh@furu.idi.ntnu.no>

In article <c69b42$9f6eq$1 at ID-99293.news.uni-berlin.de>, William Park wrote:
>Magnus Lie Hetland <mlh at furu.idi.ntnu.no> wrote:
>> Any ideas?
>
>Few concrete examples, perhaps?  Sadly, my telepathetic power is not
>what it used to be...

Well... Hard to give specific examples, as the specifics will be
user-specified.

But in order to explain what I'm doing, I could give a rather generic
example.

I might have a bunch of regexps like 'foo1', 'foo2', 'foo3', ...,
'foo500' (these would be more complex, of course).

Now I can do something like this:

  hits = []
  for pat in pats:
      hits.extend(pat.finditer(text))
  # Maybe sort them in order of occurrence

*Or* I can do something like this:

  bigPat = '(' + '|'.join(pats) + ')'
  hits = list(bigPat.finditer(text))

The last one is *much* faster -- but only if I forego named groups.
And without them, I can't find out which patterns matched at which
locations. (I can, as suggested, use .lastindex to find *one* of them,
but not all, as I need.)

I'm sure there are plenty of bottlenecks in my code, but this seems to
be one of them, and it's slow even if I run it alone (without any of
the rest of my parsing code).

-- 
Magnus Lie Hetland              "Wake up!"  - Rage Against The Machine
http://hetland.org              "Shut up!"  - Linkin Park


From sympa at ens.fr  Fri Apr 16 04:02:54 2004
From: sympa at ens.fr (SYMPA)
Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2004 10:02:54 +0200 (CEST)
Subject: Results of your commands
Message-ID: <200404160802.i3G82s6q024647@nef.ens.fr>

> feel free to use it.

Command not understood: ignoring end of message.
No command found in message



From simon at struktur.de  Mon Apr  5 03:57:03 2004
From: simon at struktur.de (Simon Eisenmann)
Date: Mon, 05 Apr 2004 09:57:03 +0200
Subject: Installing Python 2.3.3 on RH 7.3
In-Reply-To: <5fb57772.0404021802.a3e0e75@posting.google.com>
References: <106e6nge2aiiqa9@corp.supernews.com>
	<5fb57772.0404021802.a3e0e75@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <c4r3fs$56f$1@sea.gmane.org>



Carl L wrote:
> "Rien Kok" <rien at focus.demon.nl> wrote in message news:<106e6nge2aiiqa9 at corp.supernews.com>...
> 
>>Hi,
>>
>>I have a strange problem. I want to install Plone
>>(Plone2-2.0.0rh-2.i386.rpm) Because Plone 2.0 needs Python 2.3.3, I
>>installed Python 2.3.3 from source (Python-2.3.3.tar).

> 
> I have the same problem with install Plone 2 on Redhat 9.0.  Did you
> find an answer to the problem?

Source installations are not supported by rpms. I managed to put a howto 
together now to get around these confusions :)

See http://longsleep.org/howto/rh9-python233
and http://plone.org/downloads/rpm-notes

cheers,
  Simon




From http  Sat Apr  3 04:26:51 2004
From: http (Paul Rubin)
Date: 03 Apr 2004 01:26:51 -0800
Subject: String concatenation
References: <wS8bc.4382$px6.64058@news2.e.nsc.no>
	<7xisgi24fm.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<zlvbc.4577$px6.66541@news2.e.nsc.no>
Message-ID: <7xr7v5fm3o.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

"Leif B. Kristensen" <junkmail at solumslekt.org> writes:
> >   tmp = [x for x in res if x and x[0] != '-']
> >   return ', '.join(tmp)
> 
> Substituting tmp with the real thing, it turns into a one-liner:
> 
> return ', '.join([x for x in res if x and x[0] != '-'])
> 
> Awesome :-)

Yeah, I wrote it that way at first, but figured it was obscure enough
already if you weren't used to list comprehensions, so I put back the
tmp variable.


From joe at notcharles.ca  Tue Apr  6 05:12:52 2004
From: joe at notcharles.ca (Joe Mason)
Date: Tue, 06 Apr 2004 09:12:52 GMT
Subject: int('2.1') does not work while int(float('2.1')) does
References: <mailman.376.1081213637.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<40722555.66C70D40@alcyone.com>
	<slrnc74a1l.bqf.joe@gate.notcharles.ca>
	<40722E98.253B5FF2@alcyone.com>
Message-ID: <slrnc74t4i.ccv.joe@gate.notcharles.ca>

In article <40722E98.253B5FF2 at alcyone.com>, Erik Max Francis wrote:
> Joe Mason wrote:
> 
>> Why can it make this guess for "int(2.1)", then?  It's got a rule for
>> converting floats to ints - why not use it here?
> 
> Because int(aFloat) means round toward zero.  int(aString) means make an
> int out of this string.

So why can't int(string) mean round toward zero?

Joe


From cpl.19.ghum at spamgourmet.com  Tue Apr 13 06:46:19 2004
From: cpl.19.ghum at spamgourmet.com (Harald Massa)
Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2004 12:46:19 +0200
Subject: A new OS
References: <107k441hitt2ld9@corp.supernews.com>
	<107lskfjvqvc3e5@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <Xns94CA81F21FC80cpl19ghumspamgourmet@62.153.159.134>

Hello A. Evans,

I propose you should take a look at PyPy first.

PyPy is an attempt to realise Python in Python. Because "IN THE END" your 
Operating System must run on existing hardware. And there is a step between 
Python and Assembler... 

With standard CPython it is C-language, with Jython it is Java.

But there can be C-Errors in Python and C-Errors within Java ... so to get 
"only Python", you need a PythonPython first.

Am I wrong?

Harald


From alanmk at hotmail.com  Tue Apr 20 12:01:19 2004
From: alanmk at hotmail.com (Alan Kennedy)
Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 17:01:19 +0100
Subject: Editing/Writing Word-Files from Python
In-Reply-To: <c63fgi$7esh7$1@ID-47444.news.uni-berlin.de>
References: <c63fgi$7esh7$1@ID-47444.news.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <CObhc.5054$qP2.12703@news.indigo.ie>

[Daniel Cloutier]
 > is it possible to edit or write Word-files out of a Python-Program?

If you have access to Office 2003, are feeling brave, and have a lot 
of time on your hands, you could create and manipulate the XML 
structures that Word 2003 uses.

It thought the group members might find it interesting to see such a 
file, so I have exported a "Hello World!" document as XML, and posted 
the result below. I had to tidy it up a little, the original came out 
all on one line. And I had to add an encoding declaration :-)

In terms of generating such structures, well, everybody has their own 
favourite *ML templating language. I'd use TAL or XSLT in "Literal 
Result Element as Stylesheet" mode ...

http://www.w3.org/TR/xslt#result-element-stylesheet

#--------- helloworld.xml --- cut here ------------------------
<?xml version="1.0" encoding='utf-8'?>
<?mso-application progid="Word.Document"?>
<w:wordDocument
   w:embeddedObjPresent="no"
   w:macrosPresent="no"
   w:ocxPresent="no"
   xml:space="preserve"
   xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core"
   xmlns:dt="uuid:C2F41010-65B3-11d1-A29F-00AA00C14882"
   xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office"
   xmlns:sl="http://schemas.microsoft.com/schemaLibrary/2003/core"
   xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml"
   xmlns:w="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/wordml"
   xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word"
   xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint"
 >
   <o:DocumentProperties>
     <o:Title>Hello World</o:Title>
     <o:Author>Alan</o:Author>
     <o:LastAuthor>Alan</o:LastAuthor>
     <o:Revision>1</o:Revision>
     <o:TotalTime>1</o:TotalTime>
     <o:Created>2004-04-20T15:38:00Z</o:Created>
     <o:LastSaved>2004-04-20T15:39:00Z</o:LastSaved>
     <o:Pages>1</o:Pages>
     <o:Words>1</o:Words>
     <o:Characters>12</o:Characters>
     <o:Company>Alan</o:Company>
     <o:Lines>1</o:Lines>
     <o:Paragraphs>1</o:Paragraphs>
     <o:CharactersWithSpaces>12</o:CharactersWithSpaces>
     <o:Version>11.6113</o:Version>
   </o:DocumentProperties>
   <w:fonts>
     <w:defaultFonts
       w:ascii="Times New Roman"
       w:cs="Times New Roman"
       w:fareast="Times New Roman"
       w:h-ansi="Times New Roman"
     />
   </w:fonts>
   <w:styles>
     <w:versionOfBuiltInStylenames w:val="4"/>
     <w:latentStyles
       w:defLockedState="off"
       w:latentStyleCount="156"
     />
     <w:style
       w:default="on"
       w:styleId="Normal"
       w:type="paragraph"
     >
       <w:name w:val="Normal"/>
       <w:rPr>
         <wx:font wx:val="Times New Roman"/>
         <w:lang
           w:bidi="AR-SA"
           w:fareast="EN-GB"
           w:val="EN-GB"
         />
       </w:rPr>
     </w:style>
     <w:style
       w:default="on"
       w:styleId="DefaultParagraphFont"
       w:type="character"
     >
       <w:name w:val="Default Paragraph Font"/>
       <w:semiHidden/>
     </w:style>
     <w:style
       w:default="on"
       w:styleId="TableNormal"
       w:type="table"
     >
       <w:name w:val="Normal Table"/>
       <wx:uiName wx:val="Table Normal"/>
       <w:semiHidden/>
       <w:rPr>
         <wx:font wx:val="Times New Roman"/>
       </w:rPr>
       <w:tblPr>
         <w:tblInd w:type="dxa" w:w="0"/>
         <w:tblCellMar>
           <w:top w:type="dxa" w:w="0"/>
           <w:left w:type="dxa" w:w="108"/>
           <w:bottom w:type="dxa" w:w="0"/>
           <w:right w:type="dxa" w:w="108"/>
         </w:tblCellMar>
       </w:tblPr>
     </w:style>
     <w:style w:default="on" w:styleId="NoList" w:type="list">
       <w:name w:val="No List"/>
       <w:semiHidden/>
     </w:style>
   </w:styles>
   <w:docPr>
     <w:view w:val="print"/>
     <w:zoom w:percent="100"/>
     <w:doNotEmbedSystemFonts/>
     <w:proofState w:grammar="clean" w:spelling="clean"/>
     <w:attachedTemplate w:val=""/>
     <w:defaultTabStop w:val="720"/>
     <w:displayHorizontalDrawingGridEvery w:val="0"/>
     <w:displayVerticalDrawingGridEvery w:val="0"/>
     <w:useMarginsForDrawingGridOrigin/>
     <w:characterSpacingControl w:val="DontCompress"/>
     <w:optimizeForBrowser/>
     <w:validateAgainstSchema/>
     <w:saveInvalidXML w:val="off"/>
     <w:ignoreMixedContent w:val="off"/>
     <w:alwaysShowPlaceholderText w:val="off"/>
     <w:compat>
       <w:footnoteLayoutLikeWW8/>
       <w:shapeLayoutLikeWW8/>
       <w:alignTablesRowByRow/>
       <w:forgetLastTabAlignment/>
       <w:doNotUseHTMLParagraphAutoSpacing/>
       <w:layoutRawTableWidth/>
       <w:layoutTableRowsApart/>
       <w:useWord97LineBreakingRules/>
       <w:dontAllowFieldEndSelect/>
       <w:useWord2002TableStyleRules/>
     </w:compat>
   </w:docPr>
   <w:body>
     <wx:sect>
       <w:p>
         <w:pPr>
           <w:jc w:val="center"/>
           <w:rPr>
             <w:sz w:val="40"/>
             <w:sz-cs w:val="40"/>
           </w:rPr>
         </w:pPr>
         <w:r>
           <w:rPr>
             <w:sz w:val="40"/>
             <w:sz-cs w:val="40"/>
           </w:rPr>
           <w:t>Hello World!</w:t>
         </w:r>
       </w:p>
       <w:sectPr>
         <w:pgSz w:h="16838" w:w="11906"/>
         <w:pgMar
           w:bottom="1440"
           w:footer="720"
           w:gutter="0"
           w:header="720"
           w:left="1800"
           w:right="1800"
           w:top="1440"
         />
         <w:cols w:space="720"/>
       </w:sectPr>
     </wx:sect>
   </w:body>
</w:wordDocument>
#--------- helloworld.xml --- cut here ------------------------

-- 
alan kennedy
------------------------------------------------------
check http headers here: http://xhaus.com/headers
email alan:              http://xhaus.com/contact/alan


From timr at probo.com  Fri Apr  9 01:30:58 2004
From: timr at probo.com (Tim Roberts)
Date: Thu, 08 Apr 2004 22:30:58 -0700
Subject: Non-math-geek needs help with CRCs (binascii.crc32)
References: <4073c865$0$27642$61ce578d@news.syd.swiftdsl.com.au>
	<slrnc7820b.o9j.ncw@irishsea.home.craig-wood.com>
	<40751603$0$27643$61ce578d@news.syd.swiftdsl.com.au>
Message-ID: <g5dc705l6q9sa0pf9do4sab0bn7kuepajs@4ax.com>

"nobody" <get at bent.com> wrote:
>
>That doesn't seem to mention anything about poly $EDB88320, which is the
>code I'm trying to a) be compatible with, b) define for future developers so
>they don't have to go through this whole mess.  It appears whatever Python
>uses is compatible, but stating the poly by itself doesn't mean anything.
>
>Somehow, depending on how the numbers are massaged, the old code based on
>$EDB88320 is compatible with what the above site documents as $04C11DB7.

Did you notice that those two numbers are mirror images of each other?
Could just be a difference in interpretation.
-- 
- Tim Roberts, timr at probo.com
  Providenza & Boekelheide, Inc.


From imbosol at aerojockey.invalid  Fri Apr 23 02:05:30 2004
From: imbosol at aerojockey.invalid (Carl Banks)
Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2004 06:05:30 GMT
Subject: Why we will use obj$func() often
References: <d2Uhc.22272$dZ1.1600@fed1read04> <84Uhc.22278$dZ1.5087@fed1read04>
	<mailman.927.1082665370.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<8AWhc.23114$dZ1.11070@fed1read04> <40883BFE.B381518A@alcyone.com>
	<27_hc.23801$dZ1.2716@fed1read04> <40887145.789A2FE8@alcyone.com>
	<x60ic.23986$dZ1.13511@fed1read04>
	<slrnc8h667.ahh.bignose-hates-spam@iris.polar.local>
	<lS1ic.25535$dZ1.24380@fed1read04>
Message-ID: <Km2ic.59294$B%4.6907@fe2.columbus.rr.com>

Mark Hahn wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> "Ben Finney" <bignose-hates-spam at and-benfinney-does-too.id.au> wrote ...
> 
>> Please understand what an ad hominem attack is before accusing others of
>> using it, thank you very much:
> 
> What did I do?  Prothon is accused of looking like Perl (which I mistakenly
> took as an ad hominem slur,

Ok, I gotta admit, that's understandable.


-- 
CARL BANKS                      http://www.aerojockey.com/software
"If you believe in yourself, drink your school, stay on drugs, and
don't do milk, you can get work." 
          -- Parody of Mr. T from a Robert Smigel Cartoon


From perky at i18n.org  Thu Apr  8 20:36:26 2004
From: perky at i18n.org (Hye-Shik Chang)
Date: Fri, 9 Apr 2004 09:36:26 +0900
Subject: print u"\u0432": why is this so hard? UnciodeEncodeError
In-Reply-To: <c546v4$bi5$02$1@news.t-online.com>
References: <cpa4qrvb529.fsf@cabernet.nelson.monkey.org>
	<c52lu9$j8c$03$1@news.t-online.com>
	<eppstein-55126D.00202008042004@news.service.uci.edu>
	<c546v4$bi5$02$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <20040409003626.GA94453@i18n.org>

On Thu, Apr 08, 2004 at 08:51:18PM +0200, "Martin v. L?wis" wrote:
> David Eppstein wrote:
> >Py2.3 sure doesn't discover the encoding of my terminal automatically:
> >
> >hyperbolic ~: python
> >Python 2.3 (#1, Sep 13 2003, 00:49:11) 
> >[GCC 3.3 20030304 (Apple Computer, Inc. build 1495)] on darwin
> 
> Ah, Darwin. You lose.
> 
> If anybody can tell me how to programmatically discover the encoding
> of Terminal.App, I'll happily incorporate a change into a 2.3.x release.
> 

The encoding of darwin terminal can be discovered by the routine
currently we have.

perky$ LC_ALL=ko_KR.UTF-8 python
Python 2.3 (#1, Sep 13 2003, 00:49:11) 
[GCC 3.3 20030304 (Apple Computer, Inc. build 1495)] on darwin
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> import sys;sys.stdin.encoding
'UTF-8'
>>> ^D
perky$ LC_ALL=ko_KR.eucKR python
Python 2.3 (#1, Sep 13 2003, 00:49:11) 
[GCC 3.3 20030304 (Apple Computer, Inc. build 1495)] on darwin
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> import sys;sys.stdin.encoding
'eucKR'


Regards,
Hye-Shik



From guettli at thomas-guettler.de  Tue Apr 27 08:16:25 2004
From: guettli at thomas-guettler.de (Thomas Guettler)
Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2004 14:16:25 +0200
Subject: xml.parsers.expat vs. xml.sax
Message-ID: <pan.2004.04.27.12.16.24.174430@thomas-guettler.de>

Hi!

What are the difference between xml.parsers.expat
and xml.sax?

Up to now I used xml.sax.make_parser and subclass
from ContentHandler.

I think xml.sax.make_parser uses expat as default.
Why should I want to use xml.parsers.expat?

 Regards,
  Thomas



From http  Fri Apr 16 00:13:01 2004
From: http (Paul Rubin)
Date: 15 Apr 2004 21:13:01 -0700
Subject: CamelCase versus wide_names (Prothon)
References: <UHxfc.9323$dZ1.3740@fed1read04>
Message-ID: <7xekqo36ia.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

"Mark Hahn" <mark at prothon.org> writes:
> 1) CamelCase is more elegant, modern, more readable, and more efficient in
> character usage.

IfCamelCaseWereReallyMoreReadable, We'dWriteOrdinaryEnglishLikeUsingIt.
SoThatClaimIsRidiculousAndNeedsToBeThrownOutTheWindowPostHaste.

> 2) Wide_names is cleaner, more readable, compatible with C, which is the
> standard module language for Python and Prothon.  Wide_names is also the
> Python standard.

Sounds_ok_with_me.  I_find_it_a_heck_of_a_lot_more_readable_than_camel_case.
I_vote_for_wide_names. 


From stuart at stuartbishop.net  Wed Apr 14 22:02:20 2004
From: stuart at stuartbishop.net (Stuart Bishop)
Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2004 12:02:20 +1000
Subject: 3D Graphics Engine
In-Reply-To: <8089854e.0404130639.3eb0db62@posting.google.com>
References: <8089854e.0404130639.3eb0db62@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <EDB09A90-8E80-11D8-A71F-000A95A06FC6@stuartbishop.net>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1


On 14/04/2004, at 12:39 AM, Fuzzyman wrote:

> I've seen various references to 3D graphics engines - and it's a
> little difficult to know where to look.
>
> I would like (in the long run) to be able to create and explore 3d
> worlds - so texture mapping, light sourcing or shading and mesh shapes
> would be nice - but I *don't* need the quality of a commercial game
> system. Collision detection etc would be nice too.
>
> Platform for development (!) is win32 - so I would like an engine with
> precompiled binaries and a documented python binding available. A
> freeware object modeller

A full featured and well documented alternative might be
Java3D. Jython didn't exist when I last played with it, but
I see no problems with driving the toolkit from Jython rather
than Python. Java3D is available from sun for a number of
platforms, including Windows.


> Can anyone reccomend a 3d engine for me to 'muck around with'.

I think it is a good alternative to 'muck around with' as it is
high level and documented. It might even be a good options for
writing real applications with (When I last looked at it, you
would get a slight freeze every 30 seconds as the JVM's
garbage collector kicked in. This was a few *years* ago though,
so this might now be fixed :-) )

- --  
Stuart Bishop <stuart at stuartbishop.net>
http://www.stuartbishop.net/
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From srijit at yahoo.com  Tue Apr 20 07:39:55 2004
From: srijit at yahoo.com (srijit at yahoo.com)
Date: 20 Apr 2004 04:39:55 -0700
Subject: Dollar sign ($) on foriegn keyboards? (prothon)
References: <mk3hc.13895$dZ1.10823@fed1read04>
Message-ID: <221d8dbe.0404200339.268c39de@posting.google.com>

Hello Mark,
IMO typing dollar($) sign should not be a problem in Sweden and Germany.

Regards,
Srijit

"Mark Hahn" <mark at prothon.org> wrote in message news:<mk3hc.13895$dZ1.10823 at fed1read04>...
> We are considering switching to the dollar sign ($) for self, instead of the
> period ( . ) we are using now in Prothon.  Ruby uses the at-sign (@) for
> self, but our new usage of self also includes replacing the period for some
> attribute references, as in obj$func() versus obj.func(), and too many
> programs treat that as an email address and screw it up.  Also the S in the
> symbol $ reminds one of the S in $elf.
> 
> Can people from outside the U.S. tell me if typing the dollar sign often
> would be a problem in writing code?  Is it available and somewhat easy to
> type on international keyboards?


From chris at suse.localdomain  Sat Apr 10 14:04:02 2004
From: chris at suse.localdomain (Chris)
Date: Sat, 10 Apr 2004 13:04:02 -0500
Subject: New user - Now what ?
References: <mailman.509.1081613077.20120.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <107gdh6l3odcddc@corp.supernews.com>

gordonisnz wrote:

> 
> Hi there
> 
> Im a new user to python
> 
> (although not new to CGI (Perl) / PHP )
> 
> Ive installed Python on my home server (testing)...
> 
> Now what ?
> 
> Any tutorials I can use to utilise Python on my web-pages ?
> 
> G

try:
        http://www.python.org/doc/


From andrew.henshaw at gtri.gatech.edu  Fri Apr  2 12:53:42 2004
From: andrew.henshaw at gtri.gatech.edu (Andrew Henshaw)
Date: Fri, 2 Apr 2004 17:53:42 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Making the Zen of Python more useful
References: <106qp0uivlefo40@corp.supernews.com>
	<BPWdnVtfl7ma5PDdRVn-sw@powergate.ca>
	<c4jvc3$b0b$1@news-int.gatech.edu>
	<-5ydnTEmxfuZHvDdRVn-iQ@powergate.ca>
	<c4k1hb$cdg$1@news-int.gatech.edu>
	<abqdneFj-dP8APDd4p2dnA@powergate.ca>
Message-ID: <c4k9b6$1un$1@news-int2.gatech.edu>

In article <abqdneFj-dP8APDd4p2dnA at powergate.ca>, peter at engcorp.com says...
>
>Andrew Henshaw wrote:
>
>> In article <-5ydnTEmxfuZHvDdRVn-iQ at powergate.ca>, peter at engcorp.com says...
>> my main
>> problem was with the automatic printing of the text upon import.  
Obviously, 
>> that functionality needs to remain.  It would just be nice if there was 
>> some clean way of (sometimes) using the module without it.
>
>I don't think your particular use case was known to the developers
>when they implemented that module.  Maybe you should suggest it as
>an enhancement on Sourceforge.  Be sure to include a patch!  ;-)
>
>-Peter

I'm sure that is true.  Unfortunately, I can't write a patch since I can't 
think of a way to provide both functions; except, by wrapping in another 
module - which I mentioned in my original post and was repeated by Joe Mason.  
It's not a big deal, obviously.  It would just be nice if there was a way to 
do both using the one module.

For my use, wrapping it in another module is okay.  I just thought that since 
we had the 'this' module as part of the standard distribution, and, I suspect, 
that lots of coders have unittests that could use some line-oriented text, 
then it would have reasonably broad applicability.


-- 
Andy



From ptmcg at austin.rr._bogus_.com  Fri Apr  2 11:24:27 2004
From: ptmcg at austin.rr._bogus_.com (Paul McGuire)
Date: Fri, 02 Apr 2004 16:24:27 GMT
Subject: Simple BMP files
Message-ID: <%sgbc.9990$Tx6.6980@fe2.texas.rr.com>

Here is a link to a simple Python script for creating BMP files if your
needs are simple (drawing lines, circles, and rectangles).  Something you
could drop into a cgi-bin to create simple graphics on the fly.
http://www.geocities.com/ptmcg/python/index.html#bmp

-- Paul




From lbates at swamisoft.com  Fri Apr 30 14:55:37 2004
From: lbates at swamisoft.com (Larry Bates)
Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2004 13:55:37 -0500
Subject: sending email notification
References: <18e22d94.0404301048.35e0e701@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <_eadneLrYOy6PA_dRVn-hw@comcast.com>

Sure it is possible.  You will need proper configuration
on Exchange Server (you called it an outlook server) and
us IP address of that server as your outgoing email server.
I have a client that has such a configuration and they did
get it working (I didn't do the Exchange configuration so
I can't help you there).

Larry Bates
Syscon, Inc.

"Rene Aguirre" <reneaguirre at yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:18e22d94.0404301048.35e0e701 at posting.google.com...
> Hello,
>
> I'd like to make a sort of web tracking system for internal stuff at
> my office.
> But I'm having problems about how to add email notification to my
> script.
>
> I already tried to send email by using the 'email' module, with no
> success (the connection can't be stablished). I think my case is a
> very specific enviroment (may be very common):
>   * Local /corporate intranet controlled through NTFS proxy.
>   * I don't have access to a regular SMTP mail server, regular email
> access is through outlook email server, so, I'll have to send emai
> messages to the corporate outlook server.
>   * Desktop / server enviroment is windows (if I make a cgi script the
> server where it'll run is a regular Windows XP machine here in the
> office running Apache).
>
> Any ideas, is it possible?
>
> Rene




From scs at lokkur.dexter.mi.us  Fri Apr 30 11:09:27 2004
From: scs at lokkur.dexter.mi.us (Steve Simmons)
Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2004 15:09:27 GMT
Subject: static keyword
References: <f8097096.0404290607.78aa9ce3@posting.google.com>
	<LeydnWxdT6atjgzdRVn-sA@powergate.ca>
Message-ID: <slrnc94r03.25q.scs@sybil.sph.umich.edu>

Peter <peter at engcorp.com> wrote on 04/29/04 at 14:37:

> I'm not sure how to interpret the smiley, but I'll take it
> you weren't actually joking...

> Why do you call using OO ("wrapping it in a class", as you say)
> a "hack"?  Generally speaking, using objects to contain state
> information such as this is exactly what most people would call
> the cleanest, best approach.

I'm not the original poster, but I'm going to side with him.

Class, to me, implies a fair number of things about the intended
use of what the author has written.  Jacobson is talking about
a much simpler construct/feature than what one would normally
use a class for.  His proposal might seem like mere syntactic
sugar to avoid making a class, but IMHO it will lead to code
that is more readable - code that doesn't imply it's anything
other than a function with a persistant, stateful variable.

Steve


From kirk at strauser.com  Mon Apr 12 11:25:07 2004
From: kirk at strauser.com (Kirk Strauser)
Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2004 15:25:07 GMT
Subject: why is python better than eg. smalltalk?? no one has any solid
 arguments! you should all go to church with all that religious talk!
References: <mailman.440.1081414295.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<c59l5o$2faa0i$1@ID-180326.news.uni-berlin.de>
	<c59lvb$mtm$1@nemesis.news.tpi.pl> <c5abbm$ko8$1@panix2.panix.com>
	<c5acf1$2nlp5a$1@ID-180326.news.uni-berlin.de>
	<c5acpj$2mk1c1$1@ID-227230.news.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <873c792pb0.fsf@strauser.com>

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At 2004-04-11T03:08:25Z, "Daniel Ellison" <daniel at syrinx.net> writes:

> Yes, who in their right mind would use emacs when there's a perfectly good
> alternative in vi?

Noone.  As soon as vi comes up with that perfectly good alternative, let me
know.  ;-)
- -- 
Kirk Strauser
The Strauser Group
Open. Solutions. Simple.
http://www.strausergroup.com/
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From RobMEmmons at cs.com  Sat Apr 17 10:53:40 2004
From: RobMEmmons at cs.com (Robert M. Emmons)
Date: Sat, 17 Apr 2004 09:53:40 -0500
Subject: Difficulty Finding Python Developers
In-Reply-To: <roy-7CD80E.08542617042004@reader2.panix.com>
References: <65cbc3dd.0404140641.3501fde8@posting.google.com>
	<407D6269.3090909@engcorp.com> <40808FF1.7060204@cs.com>
	<4080AE97.C4CF0755@alcyone.com> <408110CE.7030402@cs.com>
	<roy-7CD80E.08542617042004@reader2.panix.com>
Message-ID: <408144F4.9050109@cs.com>

> Likewise, in any project involving more than about 2 people, software 
> process engineering starts to become as critical as programming.  Things 
> like poor configuration management, quality control, requirements 
> gathering and documentation are more likely to sink a big project than 
> bad coding.

Simply understanding all of the true stake holders in a project and the 
boundary conditions they represent on one hand -- and getting a group of 
people to understand these issues and to work together effectively to 
satisfy the multiple and often conflicting conditions is always an 
enormous challange in any team project environment.

There are always oh so many ways to fail, and even when you "succeed" it 
may be only a very partial success and only in the eye of a fraction of 
the stake-holders.

I always walk away from these things feeling like it's a "messy 
business" and wondering if I could have done it a better way or have 
made better decisions or communicated better or faciliated better or 
supported people more.

Rob


From michael at foord.net  Thu Apr  1 02:24:00 2004
From: michael at foord.net (Fuzzyman)
Date: 31 Mar 2004 23:24:00 -0800
Subject: Why '==' ??
References: <mailman.124.1080662765.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<8089854e.0403302319.1ab56af0@posting.google.com>
	<c4e0d2$o4u$1@arcturus.ciril.fr>
Message-ID: <8089854e.0403312324.7de8710c@posting.google.com>

[snip..]
> 
> Why not !
> Stop complain about choice !
> 
> If you want another syntax, you can imagine yours.
> What you need is rather simple :
> Create a parser and an Abstract Syntax Tree from the parser. Then you 
> can still use python to bytecompile it ( with compiler.pycodegen ).
> That way you will be able to use the python library but have your 
> favorite syntax with brackets, '=' or ':=' assignement, etc...
> 
> Also had a hook on the import statement to automatically byte-compile 
> your file when requested and that's all !
> 
> I'm playing with that kind of stuff. That is really fun and easy...
> 
> Yermat

My goodness !!
Now there's an option..... Define my own syntax - but use the CPython
compiler.............

lol

Actually I think python is fine - just pointing out a couple of
features of syntax that seemed unnecessary.

In actual fact I accept the explanation for '==' it was a 'feature' of
language that I didn't realise existed.

(Like 
a = value or default
which I discovered recently... very useful in certain circumstances).

Having said that I *Still* think that :

if a = 3:
is unambiguous - so there's no real reason that the interpreter should
wag it's finger and say ... "you forgot to put in one of the '=' and I
refuse to continue until you do" :-)

Regards,



Fuzzy
http://www.voidspace.org.uk/atlantibots/pythonutils.html


From eltronic at juno.com  Thu Apr  8 04:50:40 2004
From: eltronic at juno.com (eltronic at juno.com)
Date: Thu, 8 Apr 2004 04:50:40 -0400
Subject: why is python better than eg. smalltalk?? no one has any solid
	arguments! you should all go to church with all that religious talk!
Message-ID: <20040408.045041.-327839.0.eltronic@juno.com>

> From: "Carlo v. Dango" <oest soetu.eu>

> > On Thu, 30 Oct 2003 , Andy Jewell <andy wild-flower.co.uk>  wrote:

> OK, I'm on the python wagon as well, but I do not really se much 
> improvement over JAVA... especially when it comes to maintaining and 
> reusing code (e.g. API's)... here the types are really helpful. So just

> saying typing is bad, is to me, plain wrong.
> 
> Also, I see all this advocacy of python which to me seems more like 
> religion.. there is no concretenes in it, and I completely fail to see
how 
> python beats any of the other dynamically typed languages such as 
> smalltalk or self... what is it with you guys? :)

isn't there a convention in blind tests when something is so obviously 
better, effective, cheaper, that the test is stopped 
and the placebo group are given the real thing?
it ain't hype if it's true!
at some point quantifying what is obvious through anecdote 
after similar anecdote is a criminal waste 
of time, brain and cpu power.

to me, Python is fun, compared to every other language.
but am I more productive?
only if you consider that the distance between getting an idea 
and having working code is shorter. that having working code 
that is readable promotes reuse and now the distance 
between idea and code is getting even shorter. 
what is impossible to measure is that more complicated ideas 
are now, to me, cost effective. time is saved when you can easily 
send to or return a tuple to a function. w/o worrying about static 
storage space. lazy evaluation, huge debugging win when you 
can isolate when something breaks non withstanding the argument 
"the compiler would've caught that", as the static typers like to say.

how did I avoid python for so long? I've been searching for most of the 
past 14 years first on Usenet at $0.40 cents/minute dialup, then the web
and long before that in books and magazines and BBs's and libraries 
for code, algorithms, ideas. as it turns out I was looking for what 
python already has had. 
a way to turn ideas into programs, 
to turn keys & clicks into repeatable actions in the real world.

It wasn't until I had already started converting all my scripts 
and tools to python that I realalized how many times python turns
up in searches, why had I only followed the link to flawfinder and Leo?
and only then even bothered to read the FAQ. half way through the 
FAQ and a few minutes with the interpreter was all it took for me,
was the python association with Zope early insecurities a deterrence?

> the  beauty of Python... and by the facilities,  libraries and support
> infrastructure (i.e. c.l.py).
>
> Python does seem to magnify the flaws in other languages: everything
else
> seems (to me at least) to be second-best now.
>
> Slither On!
>
> -andyj
>
>

e
http://rClick.netfirms.com/rCpython.htm

________________________________________________________________
The best thing to hit the Internet in years - Juno SpeedBand!
Surf the Web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER!
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From aku at europe.com  Mon Apr  5 14:35:00 2004
From: aku at europe.com (aku)
Date: 05 Apr 2004 18:35:00 GMT
Subject: design by contract versus doctest
References: <407174ea$0$5066$4d4ebb8e@news.nl.uu.net>
	<T7Sdnf23r-IZGOzdRVn-sA@powergate.ca>
	<40718ddb$0$5071$4d4ebb8e@news.nl.uu.net>
	<IdadnapeW8YCCOzdRVn-jw@powergate.ca>
Message-ID: <4071a6d4$0$5064$4d4ebb8e@news.nl.uu.net>

On 2004-04-05, Peter Hansen <peter at engcorp.com> wrote:
>  aku wrote:
> 
> > On 2004-04-05, Peter Hansen <peter at engcorp.com> wrote:
> > 
> >> aku wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>>Isn't it so, that by applying DBC, a lot of unittests can be
> >>>made redundant?
> >>
> >> How would you propose verifying that your code will work if you
> >> don't run tests before you ship?
> > 
> > 
> > in debugging mode you obviously have to ensure that the caller
> > makes sure that all preconditions are met...then - by contract - 
> > the postconditions are met on returning from the function.
> 
>  What is "debugging mode"?
> 
>  You aren't actually talking about _manual_ testing of some
>  kind, are you?  

no I'm not

>  If not, I don't understand how you can be
>  talking about automated testing, yet claiming that unit
>  tests are redundant.  Or are you simply saying that proper
>  use of DBC can somewhat _reduce_ the number of unit tests
>  you have to write?  

yes - the latter. Indeed reduce, not omit. A nr of unittests will
still be necessary to ensure preconditions, but in
the (oversimplified) example I gave (n = 1), the test
"if n < 0: ..." isn't necessary anymore and certainly not *in*
the called function itself.

The "downside" with DBC I see is: when the caller *cannot*
ensure a precondition, then the behavior in the called
function becomes unpredictable. 

(In which case I ask how do you propose
>  to verify that your precondition contracts are written properly?)
> 
>  -Peter


From davidf at sjsoft.com  Thu Apr 22 01:59:48 2004
From: davidf at sjsoft.com (David Fraser)
Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2004 07:59:48 +0200
Subject: Dealing with multiple versions of packages...
In-Reply-To: <62c819a5.0404201235.c1649c5@posting.google.com>
References: <62c819a5.0404201235.c1649c5@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <c67mlj$f1o$4@ctb-nnrp2.saix.net>

Chris Barker wrote:
> Hi all,
> 
> We've been having a discussion over on the wxPython-users mailing list
> about how to deal with multiple versions of wxPython. During the
> discussion it came up that this isn't a problem faced only by
> wxPython, but would have to be dealt with by virtually all packages.
> 
> The root of the problem is what to do when you install a new version
> of wxPython, and want to be able to keep using the old one. This
> question comes up frequently on the users list, and various schemes
> are used by a variety of people. These schemes mostly involve having
> some sort of script that re-names or re-links the site-packages/wx
> directory, so the chosen version can be used.
> 
> This works fine if your goal is to be able to switch back an forth for
> testing, and during the process of moving your app(s) to a new
> version.
> 
> However, my goal (and I don't think I'm alone) is to have both
> versions installed and working at the same time, and have the app able
> to select between them. I want this because I have a bunch of small
> utilities that use wxPython, and I don't want them to break when I
> upgrade, forcing me to go back and port all of them to a new
> version...if it ain't broke, I don't want to fix it. What I would like
> is analogous to using:
> 
> #/usr/bin/env python2.2
> 
> and
> 
> #/usr/bin/env python2.3
> 
> at the top of my python programs... I can have all my old 2.2 scripts
> work just fine, while I write new ones for 2.3.
> 
> The easiest proposal is:
> 
> 1) wxPython gets installed into:
> 
> site-packages/wxXXX  (with XXX) being the version number
> 
> You could put a link to wx if you want, so as not to change anything
> for people who don't want to change.
> 
> For this to work, ALL the stuff in the demo and libs would have to
> import this way"
> 
> import wxXXX as wx
> 
> This creates problem when the user needs sub-packages:  This won't
> work:
> 
> import wx251 as wx
> import wx.lib.buttons
> 
> Which I think points out a problem with the package import mechanism,
> but I won't go there at the moment....
> 
> Another proposal is:
> 
> 2) put wx251 deeper in the structure:
> 
> from wxPythonVersions.251 import wx
> from wxPythonVersions.251 import wx.lib.buttons
> 
> wxPythonVersions (or a shorter, catchier name) would live in
> site-packages. You could put a symlink:
> 
> site-packages/wx --> site-packages/wxPythonVersions/251/wx
> 
> for backward compatibility.
> 
> I think this would work great, but I also think there will be a strong
> push to have a default:
> 
> import wx
> 
> which would require a symlink, and you can't symlink on Windows.
> 
> So ... What have other folks done to deal with this?
> Would either of the above methods work well?
> What pitfalls am I missing?
> Is there a standard Pythonesque way to handle this?
> 
> -Chris

How about introducing some new syntax:

import wx where wx.version >= "2.5"

Then we just need a means of determining the version.
You could use a directory name of wx-2.5 for the package rather than wx
Or maybe have an enhanced version of .pth files that specifies package 
attributes.

It would be nice if the above could be combined with the Python Package 
Index to automatically fetch packages...

Davod


From guettli at thomas-guettler.de  Tue Apr 13 06:29:44 2004
From: guettli at thomas-guettler.de (Thomas Guettler)
Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2004 12:29:44 +0200
Subject: Simple discussion of python cgi approaches?
References: <153fa67.0404121727.45b23c30@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <pan.2004.04.13.10.29.44.76724@thomas-guettler.de>

Am Mon, 12 Apr 2004 18:27:58 -0700 schrieb Kylotan:

[cut]

> All I want is a short description on the technologies that very
> closely resemble standard CGI, what they have to offer me, and what
> sort of alterations I would have to make to my installation or code in
> order to use these. Does such a comparison exist already? If not, is
> anybody able to comment on their own experiences with Python CGI apps?

Hi,

I started with Zope in 2001. This is very different
than CGI. Then I switched to quixote. It is very much
like CGI. Every HTTP-Request results in an method call
which gets an request object as argument.

In my situation it is enough to run quixote with plain cgi
(no SCGI, mod_python, ...): About three request per minute.
Loading the interpreter for every request is not the
bottleneck.

HTH,
 Thomas



From peter at engcorp.com  Thu Apr 29 11:47:50 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Thu, 29 Apr 2004 11:47:50 -0400
Subject: reading and removing first x bytes of a file
In-Reply-To: <40911B85.5080107@hotmail.com>
References: <c6r1rc$kl5$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu>
	<XPCdncN34ahjlgzdRVn-tw@powergate.ca>
	<40911B85.5080107@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <ULWdnWmpDt46vgzdRVn-gw@powergate.ca>

bart_nessux wrote:

> Thanks Peter, the below code recursively read the first 128B... am I 
> right in saying that? 

Well, your indentation is screwed up, for one thing, so I can't
guarantee the code does what you want.  I'll leave actually testing
it up to you...

> If so, now that I can read these bytes from all 
> .bin files in a directory, what would be the safest and fastest way of 
> removing them?

Define 'safe' and describe how fast you want it to run. <wink>

Anyway, you can't actually "remove" bytes from the files, so
what you really need to do is then read the *rest* of the bytes
(i.e. keep the file open after the first read, and do a .read()
of the rest of the data) and then write the shortened data to
a temporary file (module tempfile can be helpful here), then
once that's worked, use os.remove to remove the old file, and
os.rename to rename the temp file to the same name as the old
file.

-Peter


From peter at engcorp.com  Fri Apr 30 15:48:01 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2004 15:48:01 -0400
Subject: Is classless worth consideration
In-Reply-To: <8ef9bea6.0404301017.575c91d7@posting.google.com>
References: <g9k090lhocd1nbd7g230br6ooub113hjt6@4ax.com>
	<69cbbef2.0404290259.fd8d71c@posting.google.com>
	<MbWdnTRxROYvZg3dRVn-uw@powergate.ca>
	<69cbbef2.0404291209.7a98a799@posting.google.com>
	<boydnb9qfrqWJQzdRVn-gw@powergate.ca>
	<8ef9bea6.0404292307.66b78b83@posting.google.com>
	<84Kdnfu3OoN4oA_dRVn-vg@powergate.ca>
	<8ef9bea6.0404301017.575c91d7@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <662dnX_AL5_sMA_d4p2dnA@powergate.ca>

Hung Jung Lu wrote:

> Peter Hansen <peter at engcorp.com> wrote in message news:<84Kdnfu3OoN4oA_dRVn-vg at powergate.ca>...
>>Well, (c) module is merely a packaging technique, 
> 
> Are you sure about that? Have you seen how people put an class
> instance in sys.modules so they could use it as a module (an old trick
> by now)? Have you seen people asking __call__() to make modules
> callable, and/or property getters/setters for modules? "Merely a
> packaging technique"? Have you seen people using modules as
> singletons? Do you realize that "from ... import ..." is nothing but a
> form of module inheritance? Think again. Let me say it again: think
> outside the box. It's hard to do when you are inside the box. But try.
> Try hard.

You are being extraordinarily insulting.  I was going to
give some other reply, but it's just not worth it.

"Bog off", as 'has' might say.

-Peter


From maheshpop1 at yahoo.com  Tue Apr 27 04:36:44 2004
From: maheshpop1 at yahoo.com (mahesh)
Date: 27 Apr 2004 01:36:44 -0700
Subject: Basic Class + Dialogs doubt
Message-ID: <eeeb8bb9.0404270036.1572761b@posting.google.com>

Hi all,

I have a doubt with OOAD and Dialogs. I have a Dialog Class.
tkSimple.py
It contains a class body as below. Now I am calling the tkSimple.py in
another python program and using the default body, and everything from
tkSimple.py.

Now my requirement is as follows I need to popup a couple of other
dialog boxes with a little difference in between each dialog and take
different values.

Summarising as below

Main window ----> tkSimple.py
Main window--ButtonClick ---> New dialog 1
Main window--Button 2 Click---> Another New Dialog 2.

Now I am wondering how I can put three different types of dialogs in
the same tksimple.py and call them at different conditions in my main
class

I am including the code here. Right now I have created multiple copies
of the tkSimple.py like tkSimple1.py tkSimple2.py and importing them
whereever I need them

regards,
Mahesh

Main Program
---------------

from Tkinter import *
from tkSimpleDialog import Dialog
import tkMessageBox
import tkSimple


class SampleDialog(tkSimple.Dialog):
.....................
..................
.................
    def body(self, master):
        self.title("Tool ")
        self.geometry("400x500")
        # All the constant values goes here.
        # Labels
        Label(master, text='BSS ATTRIB TOOL').grid(row=1, sticky=W)
        Label(master, text='              ').grid(row=2, sticky=W)
        Label(master, text='              ').grid(row=3, sticky=W)
        Label(master, text='              ').grid(row=4, sticky=W)
        Label(master, text='BSS Name').grid(row=5, sticky=W)
        Label(master, text='MIT VErsion').grid(row=6, sticky=W)
        #Choosing the device type belonging to which class goes here.
        v = IntVar()
        global CnType
        CnType = IntVar()
        Label(master, text='').grid(row=7, sticky=W)
        Label(master, text='').grid(row=8, sticky=W)
        Label(master, text='Select a button below to add a
device').grid(row=9,
sticky=W)
        optTp = Button(master, text ="Click here to add a Class A
device", comma
nd=self.ShowA).grid(row=10, column=0,  sticky=W)
@

    def apply(self):
        Name1 = self.bssName.get()
        Name2  = self.mitName.get()
        global CnType
        global deviceClass
        deviceClass = CnType.get()
        print deviceClass

        #Boby's Code to place the above values in the file    pass
    def ShowA(self):
         global DialogType
         DialogType = 2

         getValue = tkSimple1.Dialog(self)
      
-------------..............end of main program

TkSimple.py Code
-----------------------------

from Tkinter import *
import os

class Dialog(Toplevel):
  
       def __init__(self, parent, title = None):

          Toplevel.__init__(self, parent)
          self.transient(parent)

          if title:
             self.title(title)

          self.parent = parent

          self.result = None

          body = Frame(self)

          self.initial_focus = self.body(body)
          body.pack(padx=5, pady=5)

          self.buttonbox()
    self.protocol("WM_DELETE_WINDOW", self.cancel)
          self.geometry("+%d+%d" % (parent.winfo_rootx()+50,
parent.winfo_rooty(
)+50))
          self.initial_focus.focus_set()

          self.wait_window(self)


# construction hooks

       def body(self, master):
          # create dialog body. return widget that should have intial
focus.
         pass

       def buttonbox(self):
         box = Frame(self)
         w = Button(box, text="Save", width=10, command=self.ok,
default=ACTIVE)
         w.pack(side=LEFT, padx=5, pady=5)

         #Need to change the command here .<Mahesh>

         w = Button(box, text="Run Tool", width=10, command=self.ok)
  w = Button(box, text="Run Tool", width=10, command=self.ok)
         w.pack(side=LEFT, padx=5, pady=5)

         #w = Button(box, text="Help", width=10, command=self.help)
         #w.pack(side=LEFT, padx=5, pady=5)

         w = Button(box, text="Cancel", width=10, command=self.cancel)
         w.pack(side=LEFT, padx=5, pady=5)

         self.bind("&lt;Return.", self.ok)
         self.bind("&lt:Escape.", self.cancel)

         box.pack()


       def ok(self, event=None):

          if not self.validate():
                 self.initial_focus.focus_set()
                 return

          self.withdraw()      
          self.update_idletasks()
          self.apply()
          self.cancel()


       def cancel(self, event=None):
          self.parent.focus_set()
          self.destroy()

       def validate(self):
          return 1

       def apply(self):
           pass


From project5 at redrival.net  Mon Apr  5 14:37:41 2004
From: project5 at redrival.net (Andrei)
Date: Mon, 5 Apr 2004 20:37:41 +0200
Subject: slightly OT: BUT NEEDs to be said
References: <4078daf265c69e9353e8af72542da703@dizum.com>
Message-ID: <1fi14c5u22tzn.19a14muyfl3da.dlg@40tude.net>

Nomen Nescio wrote on Mon,  5 Apr 2004 16:50:04 +0200 (CEST):

<snip>
> I think it would be great for Python.org/people behind Python to adopt this
> as an official mascot and DROP the god awful references to Monty Pythons's
> Flying Circus. It is the later which is causing a slow take up and reluctance
> of many individuals using Python. MPFC is a very very dated concept and because
> of it's strange whacky 'humour' has dubious extreme and loony left wing allegiences
> is not a good backdrop for Python. You should never bring politics into your
<snip>

LOL! Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition! (Somebody had to say it...)

> MPFC shit which I hate and will use Perl or PHP instead which are considerably

You do know what next-gen Perl will compile to, right? Parrot! Guess where
that name *really* comes from :).

> a powerfully slippery creature

Yeeewwwwww...

-- 
Yours,

Andrei

=====
Real contact info (decode with rot13):
cebwrpg5 at jnanqbb.ay. Fcnz-serr! Cyrnfr qb abg hfr va choyvp cbfgf. V ernq
gur yvfg, fb gurer'f ab arrq gb PP.


From stevenbee at removethis.part.att.net  Wed Apr 28 10:49:13 2004
From: stevenbee at removethis.part.att.net (Steven Brent)
Date: Wed, 28 Apr 2004 10:49:13 -0400
Subject: Backticks: What up?
In-Reply-To: <cM-dndNYm-yOMRLd4p2dnA@powergate.ca>
References: <PZCcnT7qvI2rchPdRWPC-w@speakeasy.net>
	<cM-dndNYm-yOMRLd4p2dnA@powergate.ca>
Message-ID: <ecqdnYJyG7_mWRLdRVn-iQ@speakeasy.net>

Thanks! I didn't know you could use printf type syntax with return....


From chrisl_ak at hotmail.com  Wed Apr 14 13:19:27 2004
From: chrisl_ak at hotmail.com (Chris)
Date: 14 Apr 2004 10:19:27 -0700
Subject: Python for PocketPC (Dell Axim - XScale processor)
Message-ID: <b62b39cb.0404140919.25bbd97e@posting.google.com>

Is there a version of Python that will run on the PocketPC platform?
Specifically I have an Axim X5 with Xscale processor...


From ptkwt at aracnet.com  Mon Apr 26 16:20:14 2004
From: ptkwt at aracnet.com (Phil Tomson)
Date: 26 Apr 2004 20:20:14 GMT
Subject: How's ruby compare to it older brother python
References: <c6ich0$c5mee$1@ID-205437.news.uni-berlin.de>
	<c6jg7404m@enews4.newsguy.com> <108qk9dft7h7o52@corp.supernews.com>
	<c6jmhh$cr0r2$1@ID-207230.news.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <c6jqtu02crp@enews2.newsguy.com>

In article <c6jmhh$cr0r2$1 at ID-207230.news.uni-berlin.de>,
Brandon J. Van Every <try_vanevery_at_mycompanyname at yahoo.com> wrote:
>Cameron Laird wrote:
>> .
>> It's not just that "You won't know until you try" ("is it better
>> to have children, or join the monastery?"); it's that you won't
>> know until you try, *and it's inexpensive to try*!  It's eminently
>> feasible to gain experience in either language with a few hours (!)
>> of work, as opposed to the weeks that must precede enlightenment
>> about, say, J2EE servers.
>
>Of course, those of us who are more into the Complete Waste Of Time [TM]
>theory of selecting software components will simply give you the bottom
>line:
>
>- If you like Perl, you'll like Ruby.  If you think Perl is a bletcherous
>hack, you'll like Python.
>- The Python community dwarfs the Ruby community.
>- Both languages are slow.
>- Python has lotsa libraries but not everything.  Ask here regarding your
>specific needs.  Even if Python were the most elegant language in the world,
>that's not useful if you must write everything from scratch and don't have
>time to do it.
>
>This is the kind of information you get by simply asking people and reading
>lotsa archives.  Some people say "Try it yourself!" is the only way to
>learn.  They are wrong, and they often don't value people's time.  You
>really can rely on other people's reported experiences of the nuclear
>mushroom cloud exploding over the horizon.  It is not strictly necessary to
>walk into Ground Zero yourself.
>
>Now, if you're going to argue "it's just a little Ruby code..." why don't
>you try multiplying that by all the languages in the comp.lang.* hierarchy
>that you could potentially be selecting from?  Take a spin by the Language
>Shootouts if you want to spin your head some more.
>http://www.bagley.org/~doug/shootout/
>http://dada.perl.it/shootout/
>You need a filter of some kind for cutting down the options.  I suggest
>asking people, and seeing what languages actually got used for jobs relevant
>to your software problem / industry.
>

It seems as though he has already done this.  He was interested in Ruby 
and Python (N=2).  From there a couple of people (including myself) 
suggested that he make the determination about which to study indepth by 
actually doing a bit of coding in both languages.  Spending a day or two 
on this exercise doesn't seem excessive if you're serious about selecting 
your 'next language' to learn in depth.

Phil


From fredrik at pythonware.com  Wed Apr 21 12:48:00 2004
From: fredrik at pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2004 18:48:00 +0200
Subject: python shutting down sloooooooowly/tuning dictionaries
References: <20040421153923.GA13234%till@score.is.tsukuba.ac.jp>
Message-ID: <c668j8$9iu$1@sea.gmane.org>

Till Plewe wrote:

> Since the entire database is too large I typically run the same
> program 10-100 times on smaller parts. The annoying bit is that the
> time for finishing one instance of a program before starting the next
> instance can take a lot of time.  I have started using a shell script to
> check whether certain files have been written and then kill the
> program from the os to speed up everything. But this solution is way
> too ugly. There should be a better way, but I don't seem to be able to
> find one.

have you tried using

    os._exit()

instead of sys.exit()

</F>






From jcarlson at uci.edu  Thu Apr  1 14:25:22 2004
From: jcarlson at uci.edu (Josiah Carlson)
Date: Thu, 01 Apr 2004 11:25:22 -0800
Subject: PLEASE STOP!!!
In-Reply-To: <mailman.241.1080839381.20120.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.210.1080803438.20120.python-list@python.org>	<95aa1afa.0404010352.80de14e@posting.google.com>	<406C40E8.10209@prescod.net>
	<mailman.241.1080839381.20120.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <c4hqh6$6uo$1@news.service.uci.edu>

> You can't count Camilo in with the spoilers - Camilo obviously believes
> that my 'goto' module is some kind of prank fiction, when in fact it's a
> working module ready to be downloaded and used.  There's probably a word
> for this but I've no idea what it is...

While I (generally) dislike april fools pranks, after reading this I 
gave it a shot.  Low and behold, it works.

Perhaps you should have released it on April 4 or so, just to not be 
accused of trying to dupe people.

Of course, I suppose the prank is that people think it is a prank, when 
in fact, is actually truth.

  - Josiah


From piotrus at sympatico.ca  Fri Apr 16 04:23:41 2004
From: piotrus at sympatico.ca (peter)
Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2004 08:23:41 GMT
Subject: newbie question on gnuplot.py
References: <337e6cd5.0404152030.17da017e@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <hKMfc.18378$_I3.17152@twister.socal.rr.com>

"SunX" <xiaohua_sun at yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:337e6cd5.0404152030.17da017e at posting.google.com...
> I've got python, Numeric, gnuplot all installed but am having a hard
> time to install gnuplot.py correctly.  Tried to follow the documents,
> including the readme, ... but always getting "ImportError: No module
> named gnuplot" or "ImportError: No module named Gnuplot".  And my
> directorey only has _Gnuplot.py, not Gnuplot anyway.
> Help please.

you should probably look where Gnuplot.py got installed (have no idea what
platform you're on, or how you installed it) and make sure that this
directory is in your PYTHONPATH..

also, since you're looking at plotting packages, you might want to check out
matplotlib..
cheers.
peter




From news at bolognini.net  Fri Apr 30 20:32:26 2004
From: news at bolognini.net (Lorenzo Bolognini)
Date: Sat, 1 May 2004 02:32:26 +0200
Subject: Web development class
Message-ID: <c6uum1$gf4ul$1@ID-233256.news.uni-berlin.de>

Hi all,

it's been a while I haven't looked at Python but I remember that there once
was a class (I think it was just a class) that helped in web development.
Can't remember the name of the project: it was a kind of a parser which
would allow you to do this sort of stuff:

h1.red (assigning properties to html entities)

I think the project's web page was on a kind of red background.

Any hints?

Cheers,
Lorenzo Bolognini




From __peter__ at web.de  Sun Apr  4 06:11:25 2004
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Sun, 04 Apr 2004 12:11:25 +0200
Subject: recursive file editing
References: <pan.2004.04.03.20.25.28.565809@interfree.it>
Message-ID: <c4on0d$frb$02$1@news.t-online.com>

TaeKyon wrote:

> I'm a python newbie; here are a few questions relative to a
> problem I'm trying to solve; I'm wandering if python is the best
> instrument or if awk or a mix of bash and sed would be better:
> 
> 1) how would I get recursively descend
> through all files in all subdirectories of
> the one in which my script is called ?
> 
> 2) each file examined should be edited; IF a string of this type is found
> 
> foo.asp=dev?bar (where bar can be a digit or an empty space)
> 
> it should always be substituted with this string
> 
> foo-bar.html (if bar is an empty space the new string is foo-.html)
> 
> 3) the names of files read may themselves be of the sort foo.asp=dev?bar;
> the edited output file should also be renamed according to the same rule
> as above ... or would this be better handled by a bash script ?
> 
> Any hints appreciated
> 

The following code comes with no warranties. Be sure to backup valuable data
before trying it. You may need to edit the regular expressions. Call the
script with the directory you want to process.

Peter

import os, re, sys

class Path(object):
    def __init__(self, folder, name):
        self.folder = folder
        self.name = name

    def _get_path(self):
        return os.path.join(self.folder, self.name)
    path = property(_get_path)

    def rename(self, newname):
        if self.name != newname:
            os.rename(self.path, os.path.join(self.folder, newname))
            self.name = newname

    def processContents(self, operation):
        data = file(self.path).read()
        newdata = operation(data)
        if data != newdata:
            file(self.path, "w").write(newdata)

    def __str__(self):
        return self.path

def files(rootfolder):
    for folder, folders, files in os.walk(rootfolder):
        for name in files:
            yield Path(folder, name)

fileExpr = re.compile(r"^(.+?)\.asp\=dev\?(.*)$")
filePattern = r"\1-\2.html"

textExpr = re.compile(r"([/\'\"])(.+?)\.asp\=dev\?(.*?)([\'\"])")
textPattern = r"\1\2-\3.html\4"

if __name__ == "__main__":
    for f in files(sys.argv[1]):
        f.rename(fileExpr.sub(filePattern, f.name))
        f.processContents(lambda s: textExpr.sub(textPattern, s))



From greg at cosc.canterbury.ac.nz  Wed Apr  7 05:06:29 2004
From: greg at cosc.canterbury.ac.nz (greg)
Date: Wed, 07 Apr 2004 21:06:29 +1200
Subject: GUI Frameworks in Python?
References: <mailman.102.1080629227.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<930ba99a.0404030246.786455f5@posting.google.com>
	<8ef9bea6.0404041009.26ae2683@posting.google.com>
	<c4tddj$2mjvdq$1@ID-169208.news.uni-berlin.de>
	<d86dnW_ktOblWu_dRVn-sQ@comcast.com>
	<c502p8$qh3$1@news.service.uci.edu>
Message-ID: <4073C495.2050106@cosc.canterbury.ac.nz>

Josiah Carlson wrote:
> Simpler?  According to Greg, passing ids of the widget was a 
> pain...well, in 2.5 you can pass the widget.  Apparently that is 
> significant enough to warrant Greg complaining about it, and Robin Dunn 
> to fix it.

Like I said, it's not a big deal on its own, just something
that seemed needlessly awkward, among many others. Some
other examples: You can't create a widget until there's a
parent for it, forcing you to create widgets in a certain
order. When you create a widget, you have to either specify
an ID number, or -1 to say you don't care what its ID number
is (I didn't, mostly), instead of just letting it default.
Most widget constructors seem to take about half a dozen
parameters that you have to get in the right order because
you can't specify them using keywords. And so on.

All these small things added up to an experience that I
didn't enjoy much overall.

--
Greg



From bart_nessux at hotmail.com  Thu Apr 29 10:00:54 2004
From: bart_nessux at hotmail.com (bart_nessux)
Date: Thu, 29 Apr 2004 10:00:54 -0400
Subject: reading and removing first x bytes of a file
Message-ID: <c6r1rc$kl5$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu>

Hello,

I have some Macbinary files on a PC. I want to recursively read these 
files and remove the first 128 bytes of the files if they contain the 
macbinary header info. I know how to read directories recursively, but 
how would I read the first 128 bytes of each file in the path?

Thanks,
Bart



From jussij at zeusedit.com  Tue Apr 13 09:31:22 2004
From: jussij at zeusedit.com (Jussi Jumppanen)
Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2004 23:31:22 +1000
Subject: Best IDE?
References: <c5bg1k$25vq$1@news.wplus.net>
Message-ID: <407BEBAA.4DA9@zeusedit.com>

Stevie_mac wrote:

> What's the best MSwindows editor for python?

Take a look at the Zeus programmer's editor (shareware):

   http://www.zeusedit.com/lookmain.html

> I'm currently using PythonWin (ActiveState) at the moment, its
> a bit buggy - but not too bad. I mean, its got autocomplete &
> tips & help & autoindentaion (not always good tho).

Zeus has code completion and intellisensing for all files in 
the current workspace. Some other features include:

  + Fully configurable syntax highlighting
  + Project/workspace management
  + Seamless FTP editing
  + Integrated class browser
  + Integrated version control using the Microsoft Source Code
     Control (SCC) interface, including CVS integration.
  + Quick Help context sensitive help engine

Jussi Jumppanen
http://www.zeusedit.com


From SeeBelow at SeeBelow.Nut  Fri Apr 30 17:47:37 2004
From: SeeBelow at SeeBelow.Nut (SeeBelow at SeeBelow.Nut)
Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2004 21:47:37 GMT
Subject: calling functions at the same time
References: <c6udda$qpv$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu>
Message-ID: <4092C97E.EEC4F797@shaw.ca>

bart_nessux wrote:
> 
> I need a script to call several functions at the same time. How does one
> call more than one function simultaneously?

You can call them pseudo-concurrently by starting a new thread for each
one.  You cannot call them truly concurrently unless you have a separate
CPU for each function.

Mitchell Timin

-- 
"Many are stubborn in pursuit of the path they have chosen, few in
pursuit of the goal." - Friedrich Nietzsche

http://annevolve.sourceforge.net is what I'm into nowadays.
Humans may write to me at this address: zenguy at shaw dot ca


From fumanchu at amor.org  Sat Apr 17 00:27:10 2004
From: fumanchu at amor.org (Robert Brewer)
Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2004 21:27:10 -0700
Subject: Python OS
Message-ID: <DE1CF2B4FEC4A342BF62B6B2B334601E56200E@opus.amorhq.net>

Paul Watson wondered:
> What if we had a machine whose native instruction set was 
> Parrot bytecode?

That's been suggested before:



From huggiepython at graffiti.idv.tw  Sun Apr 11 12:13:09 2004
From: huggiepython at graffiti.idv.tw (Timothy Wu)
Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2004 00:13:09 +0800
Subject: Parsing
Message-ID: <40796E95.9090207@graffiti.idv.tw>

I'm parsing Firefox bookmarks and writing the same bookmark to another 
file. To make sure I read and write utf-8 correctly I make open files 
like this for read and write:

   codecs.open(file, "r", "utf-8")

For regular expression I parse like this:

   m = re.search("<TITLE>(.*?)</TITLE>", line, re.I)

How do I tell the regular expression to parse in utf-8? From the docs it 
seems like I can do re.compile("<TITLE>(.*?)</TITLE>", 'U') for unicode. 
But does it need to be specified to be utf-8 instead of some other 
unicode standards? Or does that matter at all?

And, I'm not calling compile() directly at all. I'm simply calling 
re.search(). How would I specify unicode? Is it simply re.flags = 'U' 
before any call search?

Timothy



From alloydflanagan at comcast.net  Tue Apr 13 11:48:49 2004
From: alloydflanagan at comcast.net (A. Lloyd Flanagan)
Date: 13 Apr 2004 08:48:49 -0700
Subject: Does Python compete with Java?
References: <8b336527.0404051337.51bb4a1b@posting.google.com>
	<c4taac$2lg0bc$1@ID-169208.news.uni-berlin.de>
	<e838aa6e.0404071426.7192e8e4@posting.google.com>
	<slrnc79idf.hij.ramen@lackingtalent.com>
Message-ID: <e838aa6e.0404130748.1d8e1ddf@posting.google.com>

Dave Benjamin <ramen at lackingtalent.com> wrote in message news:<slrnc79idf.hij.ramen at lackingtalent.com>...
> 
> Over the long term, I think Python's biggest key to success will be that we
> will still be able to read the programs that we are writing now.

No argument here :)


From peter at engcorp.com  Tue Apr 27 14:45:05 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2004 14:45:05 -0400
Subject: Trying to write comments after escaping newline
In-Reply-To: <c6m9aq$pd5$1@news8.svr.pol.co.uk>
References: <c6m9aq$pd5$1@news8.svr.pol.co.uk>
Message-ID: <FoCdnQEuQaavNxPdRVn-vA@powergate.ca>

p brian wrote:

> mystring = "hello " + someVariable + \     #comment
>                  "multiple lines 4 clarity" + \      #comment
>                  someothervariable                    #comment
> 
> it stops working because instead of escaping a newline I am now just
> escaping a space or tab.
> Is there some clever thing i have missed?

Yeah, don't do that.  :-)  Do this instead;

mystring = ("hello " + someVariable +     # comment
         "multiple lines 4 clarity" +      # another comment
         someOtherVariable)                # last comment

Better yet, consider finding a way to write your code that doesn't
require comments in the middle of strings like that.  It's not
necessarily a good idea to write comments just for comments' sake.
Try going for "self-documenting" code.

Finally, you could also just use string substitution to clean
this stuff up even more:

mystring = "hello %s multiple lines not needed %s" % (someVar, someOtherVar)

That's often easier on the eyes and the fingers than all those
concatenation operators.

-Peter


From chrisdewinN0SPAM at yahoo.com.au  Wed Apr  7 15:26:44 2004
From: chrisdewinN0SPAM at yahoo.com.au (Dfenestr8)
Date: Thu, 08 Apr 2004 04:26:44 +0900
Subject: My firefox script
Message-ID: <pan.2004.04.07.19.25.50.370942@yahoo.com.au>

Hi. I use mozilla firefox on linux. It's a great browser, but the *nix
version has an annoying problem, that it won't let you open a new instance
from the desktop if the browser is already running.

So, in my amateurish way I wrote a little script to fix that. Here it
is......


#! /usr/bin/python
#fox_launch.py

import sys, os

if len(sys.argv) > 1:
	URL = str(sys.argv[1])
else:
	URL = ""

a = os.popen("ps ax |grep firefox")

detect_fox = a.read()

if detect_fox.count("firefox-bin") > 0:
	os.popen2("firefox -remote 'openURL(" + URL + ",new-window)'")
else:
	os.popen2("firefox " + URL)




From Kyler at news.Lairds.org  Thu Apr  8 11:08:22 2004
From: Kyler at news.Lairds.org (Kyler Laird)
Date: Thu, 08 Apr 2004 15:08:22 GMT
Subject: Pyrex list is down
References: <mailman.316.1081033683.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<74jek1-3qs.ln1@snout.lairds.org>
	<Xns94C5612F230B4duncanrcpcouk@127.0.0.1>
Message-ID: <074gk1-8u1.ln1@snout.lairds.org>

Duncan Booth <me at privacy.net> writes:

>> I hate mailing lists anyway.  I'd much rather use Usenet.

>So why don't you just run a local news-server and filter any mailing list 
>messages through to locally generated newsgroups?

Because it doesn't provide what Usenet does - a consistent
interface that everyone can efficiently use (to read and to
search).

--kyler


From shalabh at cafepy.com  Tue Apr 13 09:48:52 2004
From: shalabh at cafepy.com (Shalabh Chaturvedi)
Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2004 06:48:52 -0700
Subject: how to break tuple to separate variables
In-Reply-To: <407BA940.8000405@kios.sk>
References: <407BA940.8000405@kios.sk>
Message-ID: <c5gqup$7ab$1@sea.gmane.org>

Stano Paska wrote:
> Hi.
> 
> I need pass variables to function like tuple, but function accepts 
> separate variables.
> 
> Is there some elegant solution?
> 
> My example:
> 
> # -------------------------------
> import datetime
> 
> def date2tuple(aaa):
>     try:
>         y = int(aaa[:4])
>         m = int(aaa[5:7])
>         d = int(aaa[8:10])
>     except:
>         y = m = d = 0
>     return (y, m, d)
> 
> # i need some like this
> bbb = datetime.date(date2tuple('2004-11-03'))
> 
> # but date requires
> bbb = datetime.date(2004, 11, 03)
> 
> # -------------------------------

Here's a hint (section 4.7.4 of Python tutorial):
http://docs.python.org/tut/node6.html#SECTION006740000000000000000

> 
> Thanks.
> 
> Stano Paska
> 

--
Shalabh




From dkuhlman at rexx.com  Thu Apr 15 15:12:05 2004
From: dkuhlman at rexx.com (Dave Kuhlman)
Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2004 12:12:05 -0700
Subject: Kuhlman's tutorials pretty good
References: <407E1E20.D0216E92@doe.carleton.ca>
	<200404150710.i3F7A0Hw010978@locutus.doe.carleton.ca>
	<407E40CC.C06FA9E3@doe.carleton.ca>
Message-ID: <c5mmpu$3h1d4$1@ID-139865.news.uni-berlin.de>

Fred Ma wrote:

[snip]

>> However, in looking over 201, I see some scrambling of source
>> code examples, vs. surrounding text, e.g. when he's getting into
>> regular expressions, some of the examples have nothing to do with
>> the explanations that follow.
>> Notably sections 2.2, 2.3, 2.4, 2.5.  2.6 is mostly OK except:
>> 
>> """
>> Put together a new string with string concatenation from pieces
>> of the original string and replacement values. You can use string
>> slices to get the sub-strings of the original string. In our
>> case, the following gets the start of the string, adds the first
>> replacement, adds the middle of the original string, adds the
>> second replacement, and finally, adds the last part of the
>> original string:
>> 
>> lineDef = delimitedList(fieldDef)
>> """
> 
> Yes, they seem rearranged.  I'm not sure what Dr. Kuhlman's time
> is like, but his tutorials are very good, and thus of great value
> to
> Python newbies everywhere.  ;)

Whoa!  How did all that happen?  I believe I tried one too many
fancy things in TeX/LaTeX, which is definitely not my native
language.

I've simplified a few things in the source document, and I believe
that these errors are fixed, now.

Thanks for pointing this out to me.  Also, thanks for the
compliments.

Dave

-- 
http://www.rexx.com/~dkuhlman


From thorsten at thorstenkampe.de  Thu Apr 29 16:34:02 2004
From: thorsten at thorstenkampe.de (Thorsten Kampe)
Date: Thu, 29 Apr 2004 22:34:02 +0200
Subject: outline-style sorting algorithm
References: <mailman.102.1083199976.25742.python-list@python.org>
	<c2bdjg9l06p2.dlg@thorstenkampe.de>
	<mailman.122.1083261817.25742.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1bwymbk9pe6sk$.dlg@thorstenkampe.de>

* Terry Reedy (2004-04-29 20:03 +0100)
> "Thorsten Kampe" <thorsten at thorstenkampe.de> wrote in message
> news:c2bdjg9l06p2.dlg at thorstenkampe.de...
>> If made some tests with lists of one million items:
>>
>> The first test was with a randomized sequence of numbers from 1 -
>> 1000000. Duplicate numbers were allowed. The comparing function was
>> the identity (lambda x: x).
> 
> I do not understand what you did, and therefore cannot judge results.  A
> compare function takes two args (the objects to be compared) and
> returns -1, 0, 1.  (I believe 0, 1 for <= or >t may be sufficient
> currently).

That's the "traditional" approach (and it doesn't make much sense -
see the "Searching and Sorting FAQ" in the Python Cookbook from Tim
Peters: "Why does Python use the three out-come cmp for sorting? Why
doesn't it use a simple less-than comparison instead?". It better to
abstract the function from the comparison.

> How did you use the one-param identity?

I assembled my "pass function" approach and TCD's DSU approach into a
single program[1]

Then I generated two lists[2]:
>>> a = range(1000000); a.reverse()
and
>>> b = randseq(1, 1000000, 1000000, 'repeat')
(meaning: create a list with one million integers 1 <= n <= 1000000;
allow duplicate numbers)

Then I timed [3]
timer(funcsort, a, lambda x: x, 'dsu'))  -> 43 sec
timer(funcsort, a, lambda x: x, 'pass')) -> 86 sec
timer(funcsort, b, lambda x: x, 'dsu'))  -> 24 sec
timer(funcsort, b, lambda x: x, 'pass')) ->  5 sec

[1]
def funcsort(seq, func, modus = 'dsu'):
    """ sort seq by func(item) """
    if   func is  None:
        seq = seq[:]
        seq.sort()
        return seq
    elif modus == 'dsu':
        seq = [(func(item), index, item) for index, item in enumerate(seq)]
        seq.sort()
        return [item[2] for item in seq]
    elif modus == 'pass':
        seq = seq[:]
        seq.sort(lambda x, y: cmp(func(x), func(y)))
        return seq
[2]
def randseq(range_start, range_end = 0, count = 0, modus = 'norepeat'):
    from random import randint

    if modus == 'repeat':
        return [randint(range_start, range_end) for index in range(count)]

    elif isinstance(range_start, int):
        return randseq(range(range_start, range_end + 1))[:count]

    else:  # 'range_start' is a seq, so shuffle
        range_start = range_start[:]
        randomseq =   []

        for i in range(len(range_start)):
            itemindex = randint(0, len(range_start) - 1)
            randomseq.append(range_start[itemindex])
            del range_start[itemindex]
        return randomseq
[3]
def timer(iteration, *func_and_args):
    """
    print the time elapsed (in seconds) evaluating func iteration
times
    (default is '1') """
    import gc, \
           time
    from colour import ltyellow, \
                       reset_color

    if isinstance(iteration, int):
        func, args = func_and_args[0], func_and_args[1:]
    else:
        # if first argument is not a number, set func to iteration and iteration
        # to '1'
        iteration, func, args = 1, iteration, func_and_args

    iteration =        range(iteration)
    gc.collect()  # force garbage collection
    start_time_cpu =   time.clock()
    start_time_total = time.time()

    for i in iteration:
        func(*args)
    print ltyellow, 'cpu: %(cpu).3f,'    % {'cpu': time.clock()  - start_time_cpu}, \
                    'total: %(total).3f' % {'total': time.time() - start_time_total}, reset_color


From mlh at furu.idi.ntnu.no  Fri Apr 23 11:52:53 2004
From: mlh at furu.idi.ntnu.no (Magnus Lie Hetland)
Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2004 15:52:53 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Regexp optimization question
References: <slrnc8gal3.9da.mlh@furu.idi.ntnu.no>
	<c6a8ku$jga$1@newsreader2.netcologne.de>
Message-ID: <slrnc8ieul.7j7.mlh@furu.idi.ntnu.no>

In article <c6a8ku$jga$1 at newsreader2.netcologne.de>, G?nter Jantzen wrote:
>
>"Magnus Lie Hetland" <mlh at furu.idi.ntnu.no> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
>news:slrnc8gal3.9da.mlh at furu.idi.ntnu.no...
>>
>> Any ideas?
>>
>
>Maybe Plex is helpful. I did not use it already, but it seems to adress your
>problem

Ahah.

>The author of Plex is Greg Ewing. He build Pyrex on top of Plex

Yeah, I know -- I just never looked at Plex in detail.

>The documentation
>http://www.cosc.canterbury.ac.nz/~greg/python/Plex/version/doc/index.html
>contains
[snip]

Yeah, I looked at the docs, and it looks very promising!

One of the reasons I've avoided existing lexers is that I don't do
standard tokenization -- I don't partition all of the text into regexp
tokens. I allow the lexer to skip over text -- somewhat like how
whitespace is normally handled, except that this can be *any* text --
and to return the next token that is of any use to the current parsing
rule.

But who knows -- I may be able to use Plex anyway.

One problem might be that the regexp format seems to be quite
stripped-down (although, of course, a regexp is a regexp,
theoretically speaking ;)

No non-greedy matching, no lookahead/lookback etc.

But if Plex gives a real performance boost, I may be able to live with
that. (The regexp part is functionality that is available to the user,
in my case.)

>Hope I could help you

It might. Thanks.

>Guenter

-- 
Magnus Lie Hetland              "Wake up!"  - Rage Against The Machine
http://hetland.org              "Shut up!"  - Linkin Park


From joe at notcharles.ca  Fri Apr  2 19:23:45 2004
From: joe at notcharles.ca (Joe Mason)
Date: Sat, 03 Apr 2004 00:23:45 GMT
Subject: Making the Zen of Python more useful
References: <mailman.284.1080928147.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<c4kkja$l7r$1@news-int.gatech.edu>
Message-ID: <slrnc6rvad.26k.joe@gate.notcharles.ca>

In article <c4kkja$l7r$1 at news-int.gatech.edu>, Andrew Henshaw wrote:
> In article <mailman.284.1080928147.20120.python-list at python.org>, 
> n3613 at klaff.org says...
>>
>>
>>from this import s
>>s.decode('rot13')
>>
> Thanks for the response.  Unfortunately, this still has the (generally 
> desired) behavior of the text being printed to stdout.  For the less general 
> case of using the text to feed some test code, I don't think that is best.  
> Unfortunately, I can't think of a way to accomplish both by simply modifying 
> the 'this' module (for future releases).  Adding another module would do it; 
> but, I was hoping someone could suggest a better way.

I don't see the problem with an extra module.  Seems to me that there
should be one module which makes the Zen of Python available to the
program, and another which has the behaviour of printing on import.

The given solutions wrap the one that does the printing, which is inside
out - the one which prints should call into the one which provides the
text, if they're being distributed together.

I'm assuming that providing and printing the Zen of Python is the
module's main purpose, BTW, since I'm not familiar with it.  What is the
'this' module, anyway?  It's a name that's pretty much impossible to
Google for...

Joe


From claird at lairds.com  Mon Apr 26 12:42:14 2004
From: claird at lairds.com (Cameron Laird)
Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2004 16:42:14 -0000
Subject: Is Perl *that* good? (was: How's ruby compare to it older bro
References: <mailman.18.1082989111.25742.python-list@python.org>
	<lNadndrvs_FarRDdRVn-vA@powergate.ca> <c6jcf5$mfv$2@news.ox.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <108qev6fn542h4f@corp.supernews.com>

In article <c6jcf5$mfv$2 at news.ox.ac.uk>,
leeg  <leeg at teaching.physics.ox.ac.uk.valid> wrote:
			.
			.
			.
>That's my question.  I don't write operating systems or control nuclear
>reactors (not real ones anyway).
			.
			.
			.
But then, from the reliable rumors that reach me, at least
some of the software used in nuclear reactors is done in
C++ and Visual Basic and ... well, let's not overdo our
apologies.
-- 

Cameron Laird <claird at phaseit.net>
Business:  http://www.Phaseit.net


From heikowu at ceosg.de  Fri Apr 23 04:49:22 2004
From: heikowu at ceosg.de (Heiko Wundram)
Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2004 10:49:22 +0200
Subject: Python CGI: how to retrieve variables passed by URL
In-Reply-To: <w22ic.86731$U83.57026@fed1read03>
References: <hU1ic.86730$U83.37750@fed1read03>
	<w22ic.86731$U83.57026@fed1read03>
Message-ID: <200404231049.22398.heikowu@ceosg.de>

Am Freitag 23 April 2004 07:42 schrieb Sean Berry:
> print os.environ["QUERY_STRING"].split("=")[1]
>
> prints value if I use localhost/cgi-bin/script-name.cgi?variable=value and
> this will work... but is there a better way?

Start python, and type import cgi and then help(cgi). The cgi module should 
take care of what you need perfectly. If the docstrings aren't enough to get 
you started, go to www.python.org -> Documentation -> Global Module Index and 
check the documentation of the cgi module there.

HTH!

Heiko.



From bj_666 at gmx.net  Mon Apr 26 02:16:06 2004
From: bj_666 at gmx.net (Marc 'BlackJack' Rintsch)
Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2004 08:16:06 +0200
Subject: Help a newbie revise my program
References: <5SZic.98241$U83.18636@fed1read03>
	<JR0jc.25858$NR5.10366@fe1.texas.rr.com>
Message-ID: <c6i9h6$c4g9m$1@uni-berlin.de>

In <JR0jc.25858$NR5.10366 at fe1.texas.rr.com>, Paul McGuire wrote:

>>>> import cgi
>>>> print cgi.parse_qs("shaped=5&sized=7")
> {'sized': ['7'], 'shaped': ['5']}
>>>>
>>>>
> I can't explain why the dictionary values are lists, though - I would have
> expected scalar strings.

It's allowed to use the same key in URLs twice or more:

>>> import cgi
>>> print cgi.parse_qs("shaped=5&sized=7&sized=42")
{'sized': ['7', '42'], 'shaped': ['5']}
>>>

Ciao,
	Marc 'BlackJack' Rintsch


From drs at remove-to-send-mail-ecpsoftware.com  Tue Apr 27 01:17:29 2004
From: drs at remove-to-send-mail-ecpsoftware.com (drs)
Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2004 05:17:29 GMT
Subject: Uploading files from a server
References: <m1gjc.3688$g31.2919@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <J1mjc.22600$X14.21419@twister.nyroc.rr.com>

"Edward Diener" <eldiener at earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:m1gjc.3688$g31.2919 at newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net...
> What is the easiest way in Python in a web server to upload a client file,
> once the file name on the client's machine has been entered, to a
directory
> on the server ?
>
>

I think this is what you want ... this is for mod_python with the publisher
handler. It will allow a user to upload a file and save it on a server.  It
provides no protection or checking, however.  other server configurations
will be slightly different.

first, use a form tag and input tag like

<form method=POST action="./upload_function/" ENCTYPE="multipart/form-data">
<input type="file" id="uploaded_file" name="uploaded_file">
<input type="submit">
</form>

The above will get the file to your server.  then use an upload function
like:

def upload_function(req, uploaded_file=None):
    if uploaded_file:
        fn1 = str(uploaded_file.filename).split('\\')[-1]
        fn = fn1.split('/')[-1]
        # the weird file splitting is because os.path on Freebsd, where this
ran,
        # didn't deal with win32 and unix file paths for uploaded files
        d = uploaded_file.read()
        f = open('/save/path/%s' % fn, 'w')
        f.write(d)
        f.close()
        return 'uploaded'
    else: return 'no file'

-d




From simoninusa2001 at yahoo.co.uk  Wed Apr 21 12:34:36 2004
From: simoninusa2001 at yahoo.co.uk (simo)
Date: 21 Apr 2004 09:34:36 -0700
Subject: wxListCtrl with CheckBox?
References: <30260531.0404092256.6b58e3a1@posting.google.com>
	<c59hmk$gru$2@news.service.uci.edu>
	<30260531.0404201020.58660a46@posting.google.com>
	<c64ja6$h88$1@news.service.uci.edu>
Message-ID: <30260531.0404210834.34984f95@posting.google.com>

Josiah Carlson <jcarlson at uci.edu> wrote:

> What I meant was that you should replace your listctrl with a wx.Grid 
> instance.  You can emulate every bit of functionality (except perhaps 
> the row-selection) of a listctrl with a Grid.  You just need to rewrite 
> the subclass properly.
> 
> In terms of being /able/ to have checkboxes in the Grid, check out the 
> wxPython demo, it has an example with a checkbox in a cell.

Yeah, I looked at GridCustTable.py and that's a pretty close
approximation of a ListCtrl, but the checkbox (bool) really is nasty -
having to triple-click to check the box, and then the whole cell gets
highlighted instead of just the box, and it's looks awful on Linux
(kinda weird checkbox on Windows too!)

I'm afraid I'm never going to find a satisfactory solution. Anyone got
a tutorial on how to make custom wxPython widgets? This was the one
thing I was hoping for in 2.5 :-(

Thanks for the help anyway....


From adalke at mindspring.com  Sun Apr  4 13:40:20 2004
From: adalke at mindspring.com (Andrew Dalke)
Date: Sun, 04 Apr 2004 17:40:20 GMT
Subject: Python is faster than C
References: <406F0907.96F37EA1@tunes.org> <7xy8pcogaa.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<406F454B.C4CC8063@tunes.org> <7xekr4vdek.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<406F5E95.EBE6D3E8@tunes.org>
Message-ID: <8MXbc.15576$lt2.13470@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>

Armin Rigo:
> Another example would be 'a'*999999999: the result is a string, but
> there is no reason that it takes 100MB of memory.  Instead, store it
> into a C structure that contains a pointer to the original string object
> 'a' and the repetition counter, but still give this C structure the
> Python type str, so that the difference doesn't show up and the Python
> language remains simple.

I've written lazy code like this for my own projects, where the
concrete object wasn't fully created until needed.  One of the
problems I had with it was error behaviour.  In this case, suppose
there isn't enough memory available.  Python as is will attempt to
allocate enough space when you request it and raise a MemoryError
if there isn't enough space.

Python as you propose it may allocate the string-like object and
only later (eg, when passing the object to some external C
function which expects a char *) realize the full string.  There
isn't enough memory so the allocation fails, raising a MemoryError.
But how is the programmer to realize which operations may raise
a MemoryError?  Instead, will everything need a try/except guard
around it?

                    Andrew
                    dalke at dalkescientific.com




From loic at fejoz.net  Thu Apr 15 07:48:27 2004
From: loic at fejoz.net (Yermat)
Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2004 13:48:27 +0200
Subject: Getters and setters in python, common practise
In-Reply-To: <407e6cf9@newsflash.abo.fi>
References: <407e402c$1@newsflash.abo.fi> <xfydnUmny4UrwuPd4p2dnA@powergate.ca>
	<407e6cf9@newsflash.abo.fi>
Message-ID: <c5lssm$kov$1@arcturus.ciril.fr>

Petter Holmstr?m wrote:
> Peter Hansen wrote:
> 
>>> Having a Delphi/Object Pascal-background, I'm very used to using 
>>> getters and setters when designing my classes. What is the common 
>>> practise in the Python world? Should one use them or not?
>>
>>
>> Max described the common practice (don't use them until you actually
>> need them) but forgot to mention that in recent versions of Python
>> you can use "properties", in pretty much the same manner as Delphi
>> uses them.
> 
> 
> I have not found any documentation on this topic. Could you please point 
> me to some?
> 
> -Petter-

see "property" at http://www.python.org/doc/2.3.3/lib/built-in-funcs.html

You could also look at 
http://users.rcn.com/python/download/Descriptor.htm to understand how it 
does really work.

-- 
Yermat



From leeg at teaching.physics.ox.ac.uk.valid  Mon Apr 26 13:50:57 2004
From: leeg at teaching.physics.ox.ac.uk.valid (leeg)
Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2004 18:50:57 +0100
Subject: Is Perl *that* good? (was: How's ruby compare to it older bro
References: <mailman.18.1082989111.25742.python-list@python.org>
	<c6jcf5$mfv$2@news.ox.ac.uk> <2tOdna6S8a4pqxDdRVn_iw@powergate.ca>
	<c6jdsu$n1j$1@news.ox.ac.uk> <108qf42r54jld3f@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <c6ji9b$ovd$1@news.ox.ac.uk>

Cameron Laird wrote:

> In article <c6jdsu$n1j$1 at news.ox.ac.uk>,
> leeg  <leeg at teaching.physics.ox.ac.uk.valid> wrote:
>>I use POSIX-ey stuff and interfaces to lumps of code written in
>>other languages, so Python could be Perl or Objective-C or C or Pascal or
>>anything as far as I care; I just happen to be able to write correct code
>>fairly quickly in Python.  I hope that makes sense :-)
> .
> So we're concluding that people use most languages because they
> must, to access some specific curd of functionality, but Python
> is different, and simply doesn't get in the way?  How flattering!

Well, it doesn't get in the way for *coding*.  It does for *running*; so
sometimes I code in Python then rewrite in C to run.  But yeah, that's the
general idea :-)
-- 
Graham Lee
I am leeg, for we are many
"If we knew what we were doing, it wouldn't be called research, would it?" -
Albert Einstein
http://users.ox.ac.uk/~wadh1342



From skchim0 at engr.uky.edu  Thu Apr  8 10:23:42 2004
From: skchim0 at engr.uky.edu (Satish Chimakurthi)
Date: Thu, 8 Apr 2004 10:23:42 -0400
Subject: Embedding python in ANSYS: Anyone tried it?
Message-ID: <004601c41d75$183df7f0$559ea380@D4XN6B41>

Hello Mr. Berthold,

A few months ago, I contemplated interfacing/wrapping ANSYS to Python.  I looked at SWIG, BABEL, Boost.Python for this purpose at that time, only to realise that such direct wrapping is not possible since ANSYS libraries are basically Fortran based. I thought of the following work-around to the problem. 

ANSYS allows users to compile their own customized version. It gives the user access to its vast libraries with the help of some UPF routines ( look at ANSYS-UPF documentation here http://www.cesup.ufrgs.br/ansys/prog_55/g-upf/UPS1.htm ). You may be knowing this. There is a file called ANSCUSTOM in "/usr/local/ansys/v71/ansys/customize/user" directory. First, I wrote a "Makefile" and a "make.inc" file based on the information in ANSCUSTOM. I then wrote a Fortran code in which I used all the UPF routines I needed to be used with ANSYS.  I compiled the Fortran code with "make.inc" simultaneously to get a binary executable. And that's it, I was ready to go. The binary executable could be executed using a specific command which could be found in ANSYS Installation and Configuration manual, I think. In my case, I was using ANSYS 7.1, so, I had to execute it as: "anscust71 -custom ./executable -p ANSYSRF". 

Now, with all that I described above, link between Fortran and ANSYS has become possible. You can look at F2PY (Fortran to Python Interface Generator) here http://cens.ioc.ee/projects/f2py2e/ to have an interface between your Python script and Fortran code that you would be writing for the purpose. At the moment, my Python-Fortran interface is very loose. I use Fortran to ANSYS mostly and do postprocessing work in Python.

Please let me know if you think of any other ideas about wrapping Python and ANSYS directly. I would appreciate your assistance. 




Thanks

Best Regards,
Satish Kumar Chimakurthi



SATISH KUMAR CHIMAKURTHI
Graduate Research Assistant
CFD GROUP
Mechanical Engineering
UNIVERSITY OF KENTUCKY
Lexington
KENTUCKY - 40508
U.S.A

Email: skchim0 at engr.uky.edu
Mobile:859-420-9890
Office: 859-257-6336 X 80691
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From dmq at gain.com  Tue Apr 27 10:56:11 2004
From: dmq at gain.com (David MacQuigg)
Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2004 07:56:11 -0700
Subject: What is good about Prothon?
References: <bniq80hiib0gauiltuntk9jvia2getbnj4@4ax.com>
	<nxdjc.400$Qy.363@fed1read04>
Message-ID: <m0ps8092jss5mhpopkbj0a4hg0m0rlppqh@4ax.com>

On Mon, 26 Apr 2004 12:36:51 -0700, "Mark Hahn" <mark at prothon.org>
wrote:
<snip>
>Ignoring the problem of  calling the ancestor's version of a method by just
>using the same old obj.func() will not work.  You don't have to use the
>current suggestion of obj$func() (we Prothonites may not use it either), but
>you cannot live in denial about the need for it.

I'll take this as a 
Question: How does the iterpreter know that Mammal.talk is an unbound
function and not a new binding to Mammal?

Answer: For reference, I have marked the line in question with !!!

proto Cat(Feline):
    numCats = 0
    __init__ :( n = "unknown", s = "Meow" ):
        Feline.__init__()
        Cat.numCats += 1
        .name  = n         # Set instance variables.
        .sound = s
    show :():              # Define a "static method".
        Feline.show()
        print "    Cats:", Cat.numCats
    talk :():
        print "My name is ...", .name
        print "I am a %s from %s" % (.genus, .home)
        Mammal.talk()      # Call an unbound function. <== <== !!!
        print __self__     ### Diagnostic check.
      
I am assuming the same implicit rule that Python follows.  Mammal is a
prototype (class).  When you access a function from a class in Python,
you get an unbound function.  When you access that same function from
an instance, you get a function bound to that instance.

>>> cat1 = Cat("Garfield","Meow")
>>> cat2 = Cat("Fluffy","Purr")

>>> bf = cat1.talk  # function Cat.talk bound to cat1
>>> bf
<bound function Cat.talk of <__main__.Cat object at 0x00A83D10>>
>>> bf()
My name is ... Garfield
I am a feline from Earth
Mammal sound:  Meow
<__main__.Cat object at 0x00A83D10>

>>> uf = Mammal.talk  # unbound function
>>> uf
<unbound function Mammal.talk>

In the rare situation where we need to explicitly change the current
instance:
>>> __self__ = cat2  
>>> uf()
Mammal sound:  Purr
>>> 

Python's syntax does violate the "Explicit" rule, but it seems in this
case the "Practicality" rule over-rides.  By making the function bound
or unbound, depending implicitly on the type of the object before the
dot, Python has avoided the need for an explicit binding syntax.

If we could come up with an explicit binding syntax that was not a
burden on either readability or clarity, then I would vote for a
change.  To summarize the current proposals:

Prothon:
$var    # var is attribute of self
^var    # var is an attribute of a proto of self
obj.func()    # func is an attribute of obj and bound to obj
obj$func()    # func is an attribute of obj and bound to current self
x = obj.func    # x is bound method of func attribute of obj and obj
x = obj$func     # x is bound method of func attribute of obj and self
x = obj.attr(func)    # x is unbound func

Python 3:
bf = cat1.talk # bound function
uf = Cat.talk  # unbound function
bf()  # call a bound function
uf()  # call unbound function with current __self__

__self__ = cat2  # change __self__  ... rarely needed
uf()  # call with cat2

The "Python 3" proposal follows current Python syntax except for the
use of a global __self__ variable instead of a special first argument.

-- Dave



From mark at prothon.org  Fri Apr 23 04:24:42 2004
From: mark at prothon.org (Mark Hahn)
Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2004 01:24:42 -0700
Subject: Why we will use obj$func() often
References: <d2Uhc.22272$dZ1.1600@fed1read04><84Uhc.22278$dZ1.5087@fed1read04>	<mailman.927.1082665370.20120.python-list@python.org><8AWhc.23114$dZ1.11070@fed1read04>
	<mailman.939.1082697809.20120.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <no4ic.26268$dZ1.11413@fed1read04>

Mike C. Fletcher wrote:

> Fascinating.  Most users never even notice this stuff, let alone getting
> so worked up about it that they start a whole separate language ;) .

Well, I do exaggerate a bit :)

> super(), in other words, is a practical solution to avoiding the
> explicit dependencies that crop up when you directly reference a
> super-class.

Prothon also has a seperate super operator ( ^ ).   ^var means to get the
first attrbute named var from a prototype of self instead of self itself.
It uses the ordered list of prototypes like Python does.  So ^func() does
what you are referring to.

Internally in the interpreter I have the full Python super function almost
exactly.  It's no coincidence.  You need that to make inheritance work.  I
can bring it out for the Prothon user, but I originally designed prothon
with keywords and symbols, not functions, something I'm taking a lot of heat
for now.

> Sure, the magic you sprinkle through your system is part of its
> flavour
> and character, that character is how languages sell themselves.
> Though honestly, if someone seriously came up to me and said:
>
>     "Switch to Frobnaz, it has explicit syntax for referencing a
>     superclass rather than that archaic explicit invocation stuff in
> Python"
>
> I'd probably dismiss them out of hand as being so totally out of touch
> with reality as to be not worth the effort of listening (well, not
> really, I *try* not to dismiss people out of hand no matter how crazy
> they are).  Addressing a few of Python's warts is *not* going to make
> the world beat a path to your door.

You've stretched my "one more thing to pitch" statement to the extreme
statement of "switch to this because of this one thing".   Of course one
isn't going to care about one thing.

> Your language *will* have it's own warts, that's a simple reality,
> pointing out that you don't have the same warts *in the same places*
> as another language is not a compelling argument for switching.  For
> instance, I would almost certainly consider the fishHeight$Somewhere()
> syntax to be a wart ;)

You may very well be right.  I'm trying to get it to fit into an overall
scheme, but it may not work.  By itself it definitely is a wart.  Don't
forget that you are looking at it in the context of Python.  It is being put
into a different language with different problems.

My biggest problem right now is stupid aesthetics.  I have to decide where
to place Prothon on the continuum between lisp and perl.  When I crossed the
line and added $ for self people screamed bloody murder that it looked like
Perl.  Before when I had a period for self they thought it looked great.  I
can't believe how much they care about something so silly.

Anyway, thanks very much for your input.  I'm sorry if you wore out your
keyboard.  Luckily the prices have really come down :)




From simoninusa2001 at yahoo.co.uk  Tue Apr  6 16:31:52 2004
From: simoninusa2001 at yahoo.co.uk (simo)
Date: 6 Apr 2004 13:31:52 -0700
Subject: GUI Frameworks in Python?
References: <mailman.102.1080629227.20120.python-list@python.org>	<b5idnd8_MLmQg_Td4p2dnA@powergate.ca>	<cm9ac.8115$lt2.6537@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>	<FJGdnUG9P87T4fTdRVn-uQ@powergate.ca>	<mailman.117.1080656311.20120.python-list@python.org>	<qYCdna1kjd3fBPTdRVn-tw@powergate.ca>
	<mailman.125.1080662935.20120.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <30260531.0404061231.308898e2@posting.google.com>

I've found that on 3 PC's (1.6GHz/7200rpm/XP Pro, 500MHz/4200rpm/2K
Pro, dual 400MHz/5400rpm/2K Pro) it always takes 3 seconds to get to
the demo splash screen, on Python 2.3.3 and wxPython 2.4.2.4/2.5.1.5

On the dual PII/400, Hugh's script takes repeatedly about 1.125s,
unless you run it from within IDLE, whereby the first run takes about
1.7s and then it takes 0.03s, so I guess IDLE caches the compiled
version (I've see this before).

It doesn't seem to be wxPython specific either, I've got similar
wx/Qt/Tk apps that seem to take the same time to start.

This leads me to believe it's the Python interpreter starting up that
takes a specific amount of time (does it wait or something odd?).
Unless it's so heavily optimised that a processor 3x as fast makes no
speed difference! ;o)


From peter at engcorp.com  Thu Apr  1 21:31:18 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Thu, 01 Apr 2004 21:31:18 -0500
Subject: Richards bench benchmark
In-Reply-To: <6748553f.0403302317.4595844@posting.google.com>
References: <6748553f.0403291446.27fb7b93@posting.google.com>
	<jLCdnW28-PB6cfXdRVn-iQ@powergate.ca>
	<6748553f.0403300836.744e3e22@posting.google.com>
	<Etqdnd8EeYGjM_TdRVn-jA@powergate.ca>
	<6748553f.0403302317.4595844@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <406CD076.9000408@engcorp.com>

Duncan Lissett wrote:
> Peter Hansen wrote:
>>I'd implement it in Python for kicks, but I'm not sure how I'd know
>>whether my version was doing the right thing.  Are there any tests
>>for it?  Ways of ensuring the output is correct?
> 
> Martin Richards original spec and debug/trace information is reposted
> here:
> http://www.lissett.com/ben/com/benchspec.htm

Okay, as a starting point I've turned the "gold output" part of that
spec into a first acceptance test, and have a shell bench.py which
runs but fails ('pass' statements tend to do that a lot during TDD).

The code should be available with

   svn co svn://fortress.engcorp.com/public/bench

I don't really expect anyone to check it out at this stage, but if you
happen to have a free moment, I wouldn't mind knowing if subversion
is properly visible through my firewall.

-Peter


From peter at engcorp.com  Thu Apr 29 22:20:57 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Thu, 29 Apr 2004 22:20:57 -0400
Subject: Is classless worth consideration
In-Reply-To: <69cbbef2.0404291209.7a98a799@posting.google.com>
References: <g9k090lhocd1nbd7g230br6ooub113hjt6@4ax.com>
	<69cbbef2.0404290259.fd8d71c@posting.google.com>
	<MbWdnTRxROYvZg3dRVn-uw@powergate.ca>
	<69cbbef2.0404291209.7a98a799@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <boydnb9qfrqWJQzdRVn-gw@powergate.ca>

has wrote:

> Peter Hansen <peter at engcorp.com> wrote in message news:<MbWdnTRxROYvZg3dRVn-uw at powergate.ca>...
> 
>>has wrote:
>>>Well, as far as Python itself is concerned, it'd go a long way in
>>>eliminating the hideously baroque and increasingly brittle OO model it
>>
>>I find it especially hard to find the enthusiasm to read past
>>the highly inflammatory phrase "hideously baroque".  I had to
>>do a double-take just to confirm that the poster is indeed
>>talking about Python.
> 
> Compared to C++, I expect it's a real breath of fresh air. But
> compared to how something like Self does OO, it is indeed hideously
> baroque.

Oh, now you're qualifying the statement.  In comparison to
something less baroque, it's baroque.  Fair enough...

But at least you say what you think.  That counts for
something. :-)

-Peter

P.S. You've got an art background, I've got an engineering
background, neither of us has a CS background.  Maybe that
ought to tell us how well we're likely to communicate about
software and we can just stop here. ;-)


From anton at vredegoor.doge.nl  Fri Apr 30 13:06:02 2004
From: anton at vredegoor.doge.nl (Anton Vredegoor)
Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2004 19:06:02 +0200
Subject: [module] vector.py
Message-ID: <40928802$0$144$3a628fcd@reader2.nntp.hccnet.nl>

http://home.hccnet.nl/a.vredegoor/vector/

A highly experimental Vector and StringVector implementation.

The objective is to provide an alternative for dictionary type objects
which has inherent order and where "substructures" can be manipulated
more efficiently. 

Your comments please.

Anton


From newsgroups at jhrothjr.com  Sat Apr 10 18:39:01 2004
From: newsgroups at jhrothjr.com (John Roth)
Date: Sat, 10 Apr 2004 18:39:01 -0400
Subject: Python is the best and most popular general purpose scripting
	language; the universal scripting language
References: <a5415304.0404101350.271088f2@posting.google.com>
	<roy-22B4DA.18282210042004@reader1.panix.com>
Message-ID: <107gttk8j6or775@news.supernews.com>

"Roy Smith" <roy at panix.com> wrote in message
news:roy-22B4DA.18282210042004 at reader1.panix.com...
> rstephens at vectron.com (Ron Stephens) wrote:
> > Python is the best and most popular general purpose scripting
> > language.
>
> Which raises the question, exactly what makes something a "scripting"
> langauge?  When I tell people I do Python, they often say something
> like, "that's a scripting language, right?".  My usual response is
> something along the lines of "Well, I suppose that depends on who you
> ask" and I'm not sure what to say after that.
>
> So, what makes something a "scripting language" as opposed to a
> "programming language"?

The distinction isn't "scripting" versus "programming" language,
it's "scripting" versus something that doesn't really have a name.
Scripts are executed from the top down once. In other languages
(such as Java and C++) there's a designated starting point (main())
that the compiler locates.

Python is a scripting language because each module is executed
from the top down as its loaded.

As far as being most popular, I think Perl is still well ahead of
it, and it's still well ahead of Ruby. I don't have a good feel for
where either PHP or TCL stand in the "most popular" sweepstakes.

John Roth




From __peter__ at web.de  Tue Apr  6 18:02:11 2004
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Wed, 07 Apr 2004 00:02:11 +0200
Subject: Tkinter radiobutton border
References: <a6d1df44.0404061342.63d8ce60@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <c4v9d4$v78$05$1@news.t-online.com>

Mike wrote:

> I've placed a radiobutton on a green panel.  The background of the
> radiobutton is also green.  Borderwidth is 0 and relief is FLAT.  I
> still get a thin gray border around the radiobutton.  What is this
> border, and how can I get rid of it.  Thanks.

Try

highlightthickness=0

Peter




From fma at doe.carleton.ca  Tue Apr 13 16:41:31 2004
From: fma at doe.carleton.ca (Fred Ma)
Date: 13 Apr 2004 20:41:31 GMT
Subject: Once-only evaluation of default parameter values function 
 definitions
References: <407B79D7.424F65A1@doe.carleton.ca>
	<107n2g6q9an672b@corp.supernews.com>
	<407BB8F5.E694AA49@doe.carleton.ca>
Message-ID: <407C5074.E6E6B962@doe.carleton.ca>

Mike, Shalabh,

Thanks for the confirmations and pointer to more info on
the python paradigm.  Regarding the progress in one day,
I was actually looking at another data munging language
on the first half of that day, but was a bit concerned
about the intricacies of the syntax, and the medium term
impact on development time.  Programs start to get more
involved when I'm trying to "reconstitute" textual
circuit design info that crosses several physical lines,
spanning several files, so I would like the code to be
very clear about exactly what is happening without having
several info terminals open.  I'm actually surprised that I
haven't gotten working code yet, as I thought I would just
"fall into" this cleaner syntax.  Kind of worried, too,
since it seems there's more conceptual infrastructure to
establish before creating useful code, though I'm sure
not all of it is needed to do the data munging I need.
Maybe the documentation is "top-down" rather than "bottom-
up".  Actually, that's not fair either, there's lots of
simple, clean examples of small tasks.  Knowing what is
necessary to know is just always clearer in hindsight.

Fred
-- 
Fred Ma
Dept. of Electronics, Carleton University
1125 Colonel By Drive, Ottawa, Ontario
Canada, K1S 5B6


From peter at engcorp.com  Tue Apr 20 18:13:12 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 18:13:12 -0400
Subject: if (__name__ == '__main__'): main(sys.argv[1:])
In-Reply-To: <mailman.815.1082495356.20120.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.815.1082495356.20120.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <Dv6dndWLisrlPRjdRVn-hw@powergate.ca>

Eli Stevens (WG.c) wrote:

> I have a question about proper Python style when it comes to having a main
> function in a module.  I'm fairly new to Python - a few months of
> very-part-time tinkering (lots'o'Java at work, shrug); my apologies if this
> has been hashed out before.  Random Googling didn't enlighten me, so instead
> I'll ask here.  :)
> 
> if (__name__ == '__main__'):
>   main(sys.argv[1:])
vs.
> if (__name__ == '__main__'):
>   main()

As I think you suspected, "good style" is best determined in this
case by testability.  Go with the former and you aren't likely
to regret it.

-Peter


From claird at lairds.com  Thu Apr 22 10:21:37 2004
From: claird at lairds.com (Cameron Laird)
Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2004 14:21:37 -0000
Subject: This is very simple question
References: <b0457a31.0404210754.2a34b6be@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.840.1082563771.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<108dbd1aftmkc48@corp.supernews.com>
	<4087a0f6$0$25552$afc38c87@news.easynet.fr>
Message-ID: <108fl7h8oocmm5c@corp.supernews.com>

In article <4087a0f6$0$25552$afc38c87 at news.easynet.fr>,
Nicolas Lehuen <nicolas.lehuen at thecrmcompany.com> wrote:
			.
			.
			.
>You can also use divmod :
>
>def decompose(i,base=2):
>    result=[]
>    factor=1
>    while i>0:
>        i,r=divmod(i,base)
>        if r:
>            result.append(r*factor) # or result.extend([factor]*r),
>depending on style
>        factor*=base
>    return result.reverse() # if you really want it reversed
			.
			.
			.
I agree that divmod() improves the algorithm, and thank
you for pointing that out.

I'm reasonably certain that the return value of reverse()
is not what you believe it to be.
-- 

Cameron Laird <claird at phaseit.net>
Business:  http://www.Phaseit.net


From lbates at swamisoft.com  Tue Apr  6 18:23:50 2004
From: lbates at swamisoft.com (Larry Bates)
Date: Tue, 6 Apr 2004 17:23:50 -0500
Subject: Registry Key extraction and migration
References: <7d7e723a.0404050927.12611c86@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <Eu2dnQmqgYFrsO7dRVn-gg@comcast.com>

Ed,

Take a look at _winreg module.  It supports
everything you are looking for.  You were not
perfectly clear on what keys/values you needed
so the code below is a guess...

Larry Bates
Syscon, Inc.


import _winreg
regkey='software\old_lcoation' # Copied your spelling
value_name="XXX"
key=_winreg.OpenKey(_winreg.HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE, regkey)
value=_winreg.QueryValueEx(key, value_name)[0]

new_value="YYY"
key=_winreg.OpenKey(_winreg.HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE, regkey, 0,
_winreg.KEY_SET_VALUE)
_winreg.SetValueEx(key, value_name, 0, _winreg.REG_SZ, new_value)


"ed" <edwardt_tril at yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:7d7e723a.0404050927.12611c86 at posting.google.com...
> Hi I want to write a tool to do the following:
> 1. extract and display registry keys under abritrary starting point,
> for example:
> source are: HKey_Local_machine\software\old_lcoation or
> HKey_current_user\software\XXX\YYY
>
> a) then, I can specify where the Keys can be copied and compare the
> new location to the new location. For example: destination are:
> HKEY_local_mahcine\software\New_location.
>
> b) if the keys are not there flags error message
>
> how canI do that?




From dmq at gain.com  Fri Apr 23 16:01:10 2004
From: dmq at gain.com (David MacQuigg)
Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2004 13:01:10 -0700
Subject: Why we will use obj$func() often
References: <d2Uhc.22272$dZ1.1600@fed1read04> <84Uhc.22278$dZ1.5087@fed1read04>
	<mailman.927.1082665370.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<8AWhc.23114$dZ1.11070@fed1read04> <40883BFE.B381518A@alcyone.com>
	<27_hc.23801$dZ1.2716@fed1read04> <40887145.789A2FE8@alcyone.com>
	<7cki80hj976bia36lhf9er97v073o1pqvm@4ax.com>
	<w8dic.28710$dZ1.11206@fed1read04>
Message-ID: <qrsi80padudj0snprkk3l1kko5hb4p8m0o@4ax.com>

On Fri, 23 Apr 2004 11:21:16 -0700, "Mark Hahn" <mark at prothon.org>
wrote:

>"David MacQuigg" <dmq at gain.com> wrote
>> Adding syntax or making changes just because it allows you to do
>> something that can't be done in Python is not good. We have to look at
>> *use cases* for these features and compare them to a well-written
>> Python equivalent.  Then, we can see if the benefit is worth the extra
>> syntax.  We spend far to much time debating syntax without a clear
>> benefit in mind.  Show us a nice closure.
>
>The benefits of closures are well known.  I'll give you the canonical
>example, but I'm sure textbooks can give you many more (by the way, Python
>cannot do this):

Sorry for my ignorance, oh master. :>)

># tested example
>def getFunc():
>    counter = 0
>    def count():
>            &counter += 1
>            print &counter
>    return count
>
>c = getFunc()
>c()     # prints 1
>c()     # prints 2
>c()     # prints 3

Here is how I would do it in Python:

class Accumulator:
    def __init__(self):
        self.count = 0
    def bump(self):
        self.count += 1
        print self.count

c = Accumulator()
c.bump()
c.bump()
c.bump()

It took me a few minutes to understand what the "closure" was doing.
The Python code is more clear ( at least for anyone who will have to
be working with classes anyway).  There is nothing new to learn.

Functionality       = same
Size of Source Code = same
Transparency        = Python wins

-- Dave

P.S. A sincere apology for my gibe above.  I couldn't resist. :>)


From andrew.henshaw at gtri.gatech.edu  Fri Apr  2 13:29:27 2004
From: andrew.henshaw at gtri.gatech.edu (Andrew Henshaw)
Date: Fri, 2 Apr 2004 18:29:27 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Making the Zen of Python more useful
References: <106qp0uivlefo40@corp.supernews.com>
	<BPWdnVtfl7ma5PDdRVn-sw@powergate.ca>
	<c4jvc3$b0b$1@news-int.gatech.edu>
	<-5ydnTEmxfuZHvDdRVn-iQ@powergate.ca>
	<c4k1hb$cdg$1@news-int.gatech.edu>
	<abqdneFj-dP8APDd4p2dnA@powergate.ca>
	<c4k9b6$1un$1@news-int2.gatech.edu>
	<GqqdnTyLBpT7MfDdRVn-jg@powergate.ca>
Message-ID: <c4kbe7$1un$2@news-int2.gatech.edu>

In article <GqqdnTyLBpT7MfDdRVn-jg at powergate.ca>, peter at engcorp.com says...

>Maybe (in the spirit of a couple of days ago) what is needed is
>*adverbial* keywords.  Then you could do:
>
>   import this quietly
>
>One could expand on that idea as well, such as to satisfy those who
>are overly obsessed with performance issues:
>
>   import wxPython rapidly
>
>or those with intermittent problems in their own code:
>
>   import flakymodule reliably
>

  :-) 

I think I could make use of all of those examples.

-- 
Andy



From __peter__ at web.de  Sun Apr  4 10:23:40 2004
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Sun, 04 Apr 2004 16:23:40 +0200
Subject: Working with a list in a more ?pythonic? way
References: <20040404124833458+0200@news.rhrz.uni-bonn.de>
Message-ID: <c4p5pc$4t0$04$1@news.t-online.com>

Nickolay Kolev wrote:

> I was thinking about using "reduce", but that would not work as the
> input and output of the function I would use are different (string input,
> integer output).

reduce() does not impose such a restriction. Optimized for minimal
robustness and readability (but working, I hope, and functional in the
_narrow_ sense):

def calcScore(phrase):
    return reduce(
        lambda (sigma, last), i: (sigma + soundScoreMatrix[last][i], i),
        map(lambda c: ord(c)-65, phrase[1:]), (0, ord(phrase[0])-65))[0]

Seriously, trying to apply a particular style does often result in bad
design. Either go with Scott Daniels' approach or debug your initial idea
to something that works. Both ways are more "pythonic" than the above.

Peter




From thorsten at thorstenkampe.de  Thu Apr 29 06:59:03 2004
From: thorsten at thorstenkampe.de (Thorsten Kampe)
Date: Thu, 29 Apr 2004 12:59:03 +0200
Subject: outline-style sorting algorithm
References: <mailman.102.1083199976.25742.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <tlasiw61uxyr$.dlg@thorstenkampe.de>

* Delaney, Timothy C (Timothy) (2004-04-29 02:52 +0100)
> Thorsten Kampe wrote:
>>>>>> foo
>>> ['1.0', '1.0.1', '1.1.1', '1.2', '1.9', '1.10', '1.11', '1.20',
>>> '1.20.1', '1.30']
>>>>>> foo.sort()
>>>>>> foo
>>> ['1.0', '1.0.1', '1.1.1', '1.10', '1.11', '1.2', '1.20', '1.20.1',
>>> '1.30', '1.9'] 
>>> 
>>> Obviously 1.20.1 should be after 1.9 if we look at this as
>>> dot-delimited integers, not as decimal numbers.
>> 
>> You need some general approach to avoid the DSU thing:
>> 
>> def funcsort(seq, func):
>>     """ sort seq by func(item) """
>>     seq = seq[:]
>>     seq.sort(lambda x, y: cmp(func(x), func(y)))
>>     return seq
>> 
>> funcsort(foo, lambda x: map(int, x.split('.')))
> 
> I've seen you give this advice several times, today, and IMO it's
> completely wrong.
> 
> DSU is *exactly* what you want to do. If you want to wrap it inside a
> general function, that's fine, but DSU is in almost all cases preferred
> to passing a comparison function - it's much faster.

My advice was to use a more general approach like 'funcsort' to avoid
reiventing the wheel for every problem. DSU is okay for funcsort.
 
>     def sorted (seq, cmp=None, key=None):

What is 'cmp=None' for?

>         """ sort seq by func(item) """
>         if key is None:
>             seq = seq[:]
>         else:
>             seq = [(key(e), i, e) for i, e in enumerate(seq)]
> 
>         seq.sort(cmp)

Are you passing a second comparison function? And if, isn't that the
same as I did and to which you said "preferred to passing a comparison
function"? Are you shadowing the builtin cmp function?
 
>         if key is None:
>             return seq
>         else:
>             return [i[-1] for i in seq]

What is 'key=None' for? Is that for speeding up if someone wants to
pass the indentity function (f(x)=x; lambda x: x)?

> Note that Python 2.4 will have DSU as a built-in idiom to `list.sort`
> i.e. `list.sort(key=func)` but will be somewhat more efficient than the
> above. Likewise there will be a new builtin `sorted` which has exactly
> the same semantics as the above - it is stable, and it does not ever
> compare the actual value if a key function is supplied - only the key
> value (the above also compares the position, but that's an
> implementation detail and has no visible effect).

If it has no visible effects than it would be useless. In my opinion
it has the effect that two items that have the same func(x) stay in
the same position as before. Is that desirable? Was that your goal?

>>> sorted([4, 2], None, lambda x: x % 2)
[4, 2], but [2, 4] if the index was omitted


Thorsten


From mwilson at the-wire.com  Mon Apr 12 11:00:36 2004
From: mwilson at the-wire.com (Mel Wilson)
Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2004 11:00:36 -0400
Subject: Is there a boolean(somestring) equivalent of int(somestring).
References: <mailman.533.1081738820.20120.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <U8qeAls/KnuB089yn@the-wire.com>

In article <mailman.533.1081738820.20120.python-list at python.org>,
"Vineet Jain" <vineet at eswap.com> wrote:
>Thanks for the code suggestion.
>
>>From what I've read, most people (including me) are attracted to Python
>because of how natural it is. Give that is a high priority for the language
>designers:
>
>How can anyone argue that
>
>bool('false') = True
>
>is more natural (and what you would expect) than
>
>bool('false') = False



    bool("False") == True

because "False" isn't a null string.


    eval ("False") == False

because False is the name of the object named False, and
eval exists in order to take strings and execute them as
Python code, which includes referring to named objects.

   What did "Vineet Jain" have for lunch?

        Regards.        Mel.


From skip at pobox.com  Fri Apr  2 14:50:10 2004
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Fri, 2 Apr 2004 13:50:10 -0600
Subject: PLEASE STOP!!!
In-Reply-To: <c4hqh6$6uo$1@news.service.uci.edu>
References: <mailman.210.1080803438.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<95aa1afa.0404010352.80de14e@posting.google.com>
	<406C40E8.10209@prescod.net>
	<mailman.241.1080839381.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<c4hqh6$6uo$1@news.service.uci.edu>
Message-ID: <16493.50162.306997.216459@montanaro.dyndns.org>


    Josiah> While I (generally) dislike april fools pranks, after reading
    Josiah> this I gave it a shot.  Low and behold, it works.

    Josiah> Perhaps you should have released it on April 4 or so, just to
    Josiah> not be accused of trying to dupe people.

Nah, that's what makes it such a great AFJ.  Over-the-top *and* it's real.

    Josiah> Of course, I suppose the prank is that people think it is a
    Josiah> prank, when in fact, is actually truth.

There ya go.

Skip



From rogerb at rogerbinns.com  Mon Apr 26 20:30:14 2004
From: rogerb at rogerbinns.com (Roger Binns)
Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2004 17:30:14 -0700
Subject: Is Perl *that* good? (was: How's ruby compare to it older bro
References: <mailman.18.1082989111.25742.python-list@python.org>
	<lNadndrvs_FarRDdRVn-vA@powergate.ca>
	<108qcobc4m8g972@corp.supernews.com>
	<roy-AEA452.13121026042004@reader2.panix.com>
Message-ID: <i5m0m1-tbo.ln1@home.rogerbinns.com>

Roy Smith wrote:
> What Tcl lacks in power and expressiveness, it
> makes up for in simplicity of use, quick learning curve, and ease of
> embedding/extending.  I've written a lot of Tcl code, and never used
> either Expect or Tk.

That was how I originally came to Tcl.  Never used Expect either (although
some colleagues did) and never did Tk (until Tkinter!)

Tcl does have power and expressiveness.  It is one of the few languages
where you can trivially define your own control structures.  Object
orientation was added without changing the language (almost SmallTalk
like).

Tcl also had a shot at stardom.  I added it to the Mosaic browser where
it was used in a similar capacity to JavaScript today.  Details are in
the proceedings of the 2nd WWW conference.  (The audience were in awe
of a demo that printed an entire book based on following the rel links
in web page headers, got everything in the right order, loaded the pages
and printed).

To solve the same problems, Netscape invented yet another language and
put "marketing flavour of the day" in front, blessing us with Javascript.
I really wish Tcl had won that one.

Roger




From rmanx at gmx.de  Thu Apr  8 10:36:56 2004
From: rmanx at gmx.de (Robert)
Date: Thu, 8 Apr 2004 16:36:56 +0200
Subject: if 'hallo' in ['hallooo','halloooooooo'] problem
References: <c53k55$mm2$1@news.mch.sbs.de>
Message-ID: <c53o27$6ku$1@news.mch.sbs.de>

Sorry!!!!

the example I gave I did not check. Of course it works.

The problem is somewhere else. My programm was doing this:

if 'hallo' in 'hallooooo':
....

instead of  (what I was thinking):

if 'hallo' in ['hallo']:
....


so , everything is fine. I did not see, that the variable holding the second
string is a string instead of a list.


Thanks for your replies!!!!!!



"Robert" <rmanx at gmx.de> wrote in message
news:c53k55$mm2$1 at news.mch.sbs.de...
> Hi,
>
> I have a little problem and mybe one of you has got the solution.
> I would like to check if a string is in a list of strings.
> The following returns true:
> if 'hallo' in ['halloooo','hallooooooooo']:
>     pass
>
> but I want to check if the string is exactly equal to any string in the
> list.
> How can I do this without the need to do something like this:
> def stringInList(self,string,list):
>         for oneStr in list:
>             if string == oneStr:
>                 return 1
>         return 0
>
>
> Thank you in advance,
>
> Robert
>
>




From rogerb at rogerbinns.com  Tue Apr  6 13:53:23 2004
From: rogerb at rogerbinns.com (Roger Binns)
Date: Tue, 6 Apr 2004 10:53:23 -0700
Subject: Python and USB
References: <407162b0$1@news.vo.lu> <5ns8k1-3q4.ln1@home.rogerbinns.com>
	<40727912$1@news.vo.lu>
Message-ID: <bd7bk1-cfe.ln1@home.rogerbinns.com>

> it was exactly the thing i'am was looking for.
> Now i only have to get my device running. Under
> C i was allready using the libusb, and so this code should
> be easily to be adapted.

Yes, you get a straight wrapping of libusb, as well as a
more Pythonic interface (in libusb.py and usb.py respectively).

There are some issues unresolved, mainly due to the APIs that
libusb exposes.  For example it makes no mention of being
thread safe (my wrapper does release the GIL around read/writes)
and the lists of busses/devices/configs are freed and reallocated
if you call usb_find_busses/usb_find_devices.  Consequently
the Python objects could be pointing at freed memory.

Roger




From ramen at lackingtalent.com  Wed Apr 21 12:28:21 2004
From: ramen at lackingtalent.com (Dave Benjamin)
Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2004 16:28:21 -0000
Subject: CamelCase versus wide_names (Prothon)
References: <UHxfc.9323$dZ1.3740@fed1read04>
	<6ee58e07.0404192141.2229efd6@posting.google.com>
	<c62e05$6oraj$1@ID-99293.news.uni-berlin.de>
	<i93hc.13733$dZ1.8818@fed1read04>
	<mailman.789.1082458674.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<1082549174.163233@ns.topconrd.ru>
Message-ID: <slrnc8d8u3.hsh.ramen@lackingtalent.com>

In article <1082549174.163233 at ns.topconrd.ru>, Sergei Organov wrote:
> Gerrit <gerrit at nl.linux.org> writes:
> 
>> Mark Hahn wrote:
>> > "William Park" <opengeometry at yahoo.ca> wrote ...
>> > 
>> > Someone else already mentioned this
>> > > > problem:
>> > > >
>> > > >    smtp_message <-> SMTPMessage <-> SmtpMessage
>> > 
>> > If you consider the capital letter as just a replacement for the underbar,
>> > then the answer is definitely smtpMessage.  I don't see any problem.
>> 
>> SMTP is an acronym. Because it's an acronym, it's most often spelled in
>> allcaps.
> 
> Yet nobody mentioned that we don't have lower-case digits ;)
> 
> usb201_driver <-> usb201Driver <-> usb2??Driver

Hey, as long as Perl is adding French quotes to the language, why don't we
dig around in Unicode for some lower case numerals? I bet you could find
some if you looked hard enough, in between the Klingon alphabet and
Dingbats 47 perhaps... =)

-- 
.:[ dave benjamin: ramen/[sp00] -:- spoomusic.com -:- ramenfest.com ]:.
:  please talk to your son or daughter about parametric polymorphism. :


From ncom01/srv/olympus-sg at olympus.com.sg  Thu Apr  1 22:13:40 2004
From: ncom01/srv/olympus-sg at olympus.com.sg (ncom01/srv/olympus-sg at olympus.com.sg)
Date: Fri, 2 Apr 2004 11:13:40 +0800
Subject: File blocked - ScanMail for Lotus Notes --> Re: Your picture
Message-ID: <OFF9E2BB3E.83524B15-ON48256E6A.0011BB58@olympus.com.sg>

ScanMail has removed an attachment during a real-time scan of the mail
traffic.
Please zip your file and resend, sorry for any inconvenience


Date: 04/02/2004 11:13:40 AM
Subject:  Re: Your picture
Virus:
File: your_picture.pif
From: python-list at python.org
To:   ostmaster at olympus.com.sg
Action:     Blocked by Filter Rules;

Scanned by ScanMail for Lotus Notes 2.6
with scanengine 7.000-1004
and patternfile lpt$vpn.847





From moosebumps at moosebumps.com  Sun Apr 18 16:16:50 2004
From: moosebumps at moosebumps.com (Moosebumps)
Date: Sun, 18 Apr 2004 20:16:50 GMT
Subject: python module for interactive web charts
References: <hahgc.23618$zk1.8252@newssvr27.news.prodigy.com>
	<mailman.743.1082312877.20120.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <RmBgc.23983$Oz3.18367@newssvr27.news.prodigy.com>

Thanks, that looks great -- just what I'm looking for!  As a note, it's nice
that all the figures are anti-aliased -- even a lot of commercial packages
that I looked at don't have that.

MB



"John Hunter" <jdhunter at ace.bsd.uchicago.edu> wrote in message
news:mailman.743.1082312877.20120.python-list at python.org...
> >>>>> "Moosebumps" == Moosebumps  <moosebumps at moosebumps.com> writes:
>
>     Moosebumps> Is there anything that is made to generate web pages
>     Moosebumps> which have charts similar to the yahoo finance stock
>     Moosebumps> charts?  Not looking to graph stocks specifically, but
>     Moosebumps> anything.  I like how you can zoom on each axis, and
>     Moosebumps> maybe click to see numerical values and such.
>
>     Moosebumps> If there isn't anything in Python, what do people
>     Moosebumps> typically use for that kind of stuff, or is it all
>     Moosebumps> hand-rolled?
>
> matplotlib is a 2D plotting library that supports a number of plot
> types - http://matplotlib.sourceforge.net/screenshots.html.  The
> library can generate plots either to GUIs or just generate images if
> you want to use it in a web application server.  See this link
> http://matplotlib.sourceforge.net/faq.html#APPSERVER for more
> information about using matplotlib in a web server.  There are
> interactive navigation tools for panning and zooming, etc.
>
> The next release 0.53 due out early next week will have a lot of
> support for making date plots, using python datetimes, mx.Datetime, or
> other, with a hodge podge of minor and major date tick locators and
> formatters.  There is also a financial module in the works which will
> be finished soon for candlestick plots and the like.
>
> If you're interested in getting announcements when these features are
> ready, you may want to join the mailing list
> http://lists.sourceforge.net/mailman/listinfo/matplotlib-users.
>
> Cheers,
> John Hunter
>
>




From alexanro at stud.ntnu.no  Wed Apr 14 12:20:40 2004
From: alexanro at stud.ntnu.no (Alexander Rødseth)
Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2004 18:20:40 +0200
Subject: Pygame
References: <c5jdv2$s4$1@orkan.itea.ntnu.no>	<xZydnfgqeaiK3ODdRVn-tw@powergate.ca><c5jgvh$2m5$1@orkan.itea.ntnu.no>
	<mailman.620.1081958099.20120.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <c5jocr$6aq$1@orkan.itea.ntnu.no>

> pygame (and sdl) are lgpl licensed and as such they are not
> commercial-friendly.

Good point. Thanks. :)




From claird at lairds.com  Sat Apr  3 18:49:21 2004
From: claird at lairds.com (Cameron Laird)
Date: Sat, 03 Apr 2004 23:49:21 -0000
Subject: emergent/swarm/evolutionary systems etc
References: <c4aeq8$92a$1@hercules.btinternet.com>
	<c4k63o$bss$1@hercules.btinternet.com>
	<2de080a12a9c6c488149f4b031bb46be@news.teranews.com>
	<c4mv6o$c2m$1@hercules.btinternet.com>
Message-ID: <106ujc1frj9o889@corp.supernews.com>

In article <c4mv6o$c2m$1 at hercules.btinternet.com>,
Peter MacKenzie <peter9547 at btinternet.com> wrote:
>I think then that I might stick with spreadsheets as far a possible.  Do you
>know of any simulation programs that might be more suited?  Also, how would
>you extract data from a spreadsheet for use in another program?  I'm not
>familiar with means of linking spreadsheets to external applications, though
>I don't doubt that it can be done.
>
>

Software people *constantly* talk about "means of linking ... to 
external applications"; it's one of our obsessions, for reasons
best left to another time.

Here's a way you can practice thinking about it:  a spreadsheet
can write its "answers" to a file--just a simple document, the
sort you might write as a human, yourself.  Another program can
read that file.  That establishes communication between the 
spreadsheet and the other program.  Mission accomplished.

Spreadsheets typically have *dozens* of distinct ways of talking
to "outsiders", although that's often apparent only to software
specialists.
-- 

Cameron Laird <claird at phaseit.net>
Business:  http://www.Phaseit.net


From jcarlson at uci.edu  Mon Apr 26 01:25:52 2004
From: jcarlson at uci.edu (Josiah Carlson)
Date: Sun, 25 Apr 2004 22:25:52 -0700
Subject: A new OS
In-Reply-To: <408c8baa$1@news.unimelb.edu.au>
References: <107k441hitt2ld9@corp.supernews.com>
	<408c8baa$1@news.unimelb.edu.au>
Message-ID: <c6i6nt$l2e$1@news.service.uci.edu>

> Is it possible to program a python virtual machine into an EEPROM 
> (eletrically erasable programmable read-only memory) and then set the 
> BIOS to access this VM as the bootloader? So in directly, we have a very 
> low level python VM in the system when it boots up......

Two key issues:
Memory; depending on your EEPROM, you may or may not be able to fit a 
Python VM.
OS Services; traditionally, Python has relied on the operating system 
for various services that are important to a large number of nontrivial 
applications (sockets, filesystem interfaces, malloc, etc.)

  - Josiah


From fma at doe.carleton.ca  Thu Apr 15 20:14:33 2004
From: fma at doe.carleton.ca (Fred Ma)
Date: 16 Apr 2004 00:14:33 GMT
Subject: Kuhlman's tutorials pretty good
References: <407E1E20.D0216E92@doe.carleton.ca>
	<200404150710.i3F7A0Hw010978@locutus.doe.carleton.ca>
	<407E40CC.C06FA9E3@doe.carleton.ca>
	<c5mmpu$3h1d4$1@ID-139865.news.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <407F2565.4A3BF11A@doe.carleton.ca>

Dave Kuhlman wrote:
> 
> Whoa!  How did all that happen?  I believe I tried one too many
> fancy things in TeX/LaTeX, which is definitely not my native
> language.
> 
> I've simplified a few things in the source document, and I believe
> that these errors are fixed, now.
> 
> Thanks for pointing this out to me.  Also, thanks for the
> compliments.


That's hilarious.  Talk about shocking feedback.
Thanks for the fix, and for creating the tutorials in
the first place.

By the way, it seems there are two different sections
at referring to tutorials for programmers:

	http://www.python.org/doc/Intros.html
	http://www.python.org/topics/learn/prog.html

Wouldn't it be good if both included Dave's tutorials?

Fred

P.S.  Thanks to Kirby and AMK for pointing out the 2nd
location.
-- 
Fred Ma
Dept. of Electronics, Carleton University
1125 Colonel By Drive, Ottawa, Ontario
Canada, K1S 5B6


From timr at probo.com  Mon Apr 19 00:37:01 2004
From: timr at probo.com (Tim Roberts)
Date: Sun, 18 Apr 2004 21:37:01 -0700
Subject: module not callable - why not?
References: <c56jph$rrk$05$1@news.t-online.com>
	<107dras2heahcb6@news.supernews.com>
	<mailman.491.1081538569.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<8ef9bea6.0404122025.36efc84e@posting.google.com>
	<c5tef0$5hf$1@news.service.uci.edu>
	<7xsmf1fxd9.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<8ef9bea6.0404180823.7a3bc189@posting.google.com>
	<c5uufg$lig$1@news.service.uci.edu>
Message-ID: <tql680hdmhv01548e6h2ghrgie0s0a4pnk@4ax.com>

Josiah Carlson <jcarlson at uci.edu> wrote:
>
>Truth be told, I've used singletons before, but only once.

Is that a pun?
-- 
- Tim Roberts, timr at probo.com
  Providenza & Boekelheide, Inc.


From gomoSINSPAM at datafull.com  Mon Apr 19 17:29:49 2004
From: gomoSINSPAM at datafull.com (=?iso-8859-1?q?Gonzalo_Sainz-Tr=E1paga_=28GomoX=29?=)
Date: Mon, 19 Apr 2004 18:29:49 -0300
Subject: Problems using modulo
References: <d698d3e7.0404190731.3dcb89d2@posting.google.com>
	<c60t0u$6pbai$1@ID-111250.news.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <pan.2004.04.19.21.29.44.619082@datafull.com>

On Mon, 19 Apr 2004 17:51:53 +0200, Diez B. Roggisch wrote:
> AFAIK modulo is mathematically only properly defined on
> integers - so you should stick to them.

Modulo is fine for any number (even irrational ones). For example,
acos(sqrt(3)/2) is congruent to pi/6 mod 2*pi. Technically, two numbers
are congruent mod n when the rest of the division by n is the same, it
doesn't matter whether n is an integer or not.




From "schwartz+ at usenet " at bio.cse.psu.edu  Tue Apr 13 23:12:39 2004
From: "schwartz+ at usenet " at bio.cse.psu.edu (Scott Schwartz)
Date: 13 Apr 2004 23:12:39 -0400
Subject: print u"\u0432": why is this so hard? UnciodeEncodeError
References: <cpa4qrvb529.fsf@cabernet.nelson.monkey.org>
	<c52lu9$j8c$03$1@news.t-online.com>
	<eppstein-55126D.00202008042004@news.service.uci.edu>
	<c546v4$bi5$02$1@news.t-online.com>
	<m38yh3hhxv.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk>
	<c5cgq3$tps$00$1@news.t-online.com>
	<16505.58626.39783.581506@montanaro.dyndns.org>
	<c5en2q$mjl$01$1@news.t-online.com>
	<mailman.564.1081824971.20120.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <8gekqrz1zs.fsf@galapagos.bx.psu.edu>

Skip Montanaro <skip at pobox.com> writes:
> I run xterms under XDarwin.  I don't think the default encoding is different
> than xterms in any other X environment.  If I execute

These days you can invoke it as uxterm to force it into utf-8 mode.



From newsgroups at jhrothjr.com  Thu Apr 15 11:04:15 2004
From: newsgroups at jhrothjr.com (John Roth)
Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2004 11:04:15 -0400
Subject: Difficulty Finding Python Developers
References: <65cbc3dd.0404140641.3501fde8@posting.google.com>
	<65cbc3dd.0404141018.36d9d4ce@posting.google.com>
	<ca6d23f8.0404150426.5daf0b7d@posting.google.com>
	<kKSdnSaWjO_rF-PdRVn-jg@powergate.ca>
	<du7pta9l4s0.fsf@amadeus.cc.tut.fi>
Message-ID: <107t94otjnfs96c@news.supernews.com>


"Ville Vainio" <ville at spammers.com> wrote in message
news:du7pta9l4s0.fsf at amadeus.cc.tut.fi...
> Offering some comebacks in advance...
>
> >>>>> "Peter" == Peter Hansen <peter at engcorp.com> writes:
>
>     >> Mention that when you do find a
>     >> Python programmer he'll probably be better than your average perl
or
>     >> Java programmer.
>
>     Peter> And here I would ask, "Why do you say that?  If there are
>     Peter> so few of them around, how could anyone know whether
>     Peter> they're better or worse?  And wouldn't the best programmers
>
> I guess the braindeadness of perl can be argued as an indication of
> the quality of programmers - if the Perl people are unable to see how
> much the language stinks, they might be lacking in other areas of
> programming also.

It's not a problem of being brain dead - it's a problem that Perl's
philosophy encourages "cowboy coders" that enjoy the technical
wizardry of doing the same things different ways. Python's philosophy
encourages you to learn what you need quickly so you can pay
attention to the job.

> Java OTOH is the lowest common denominator, pretty much everyone knows
> it, which drags the average quality down.

I thought that was COBOL. The arguement against Java is very simple:
It takes twice as much coding (that is, keystrokes) to do something in
Java as it does in Python. There is no evidence that the additional
*security* from static typing is worth the additional cost of the coding
effort, and there is mounting evidence (but no credible studies I'm aware
of) that it isn't.

John Roth

> -- 
> Ville Vainio   http://tinyurl.com/2prnb




From timr at probo.com  Fri Apr  2 20:14:23 2004
From: timr at probo.com (Tim Roberts)
Date: Fri, 02 Apr 2004 17:14:23 -0800
Subject: Why '==' ??
References: <8089854e.0403300510.1971c24@posting.google.com>
	<1080653301.114229@master.nyc.kbcfp.com>
Message-ID: <dv2s605c7ttq7p5jl2kj185kb64pql34r2@4ax.com>

Vrai Stacey <spam.trap.vrai.stacey at spam.trap.kbcfp.com> wrote:
>
>I would assume it's because most people come to Python having programmed 
>other languages. In most other languages (excepting stuff like 
>Pascal/Modula-2/etc ...) '=' is used for assignment and '==' for 
>equality.

Interesting you would put it that way.  I would have guessed that "most"
was not accurate.  "In the languages most programmers use", yes, but not
"In most other languages".

C, C++, Java, C#, and Javascript all use = for assignment, == for
compare-equal.

Basic, VBScript, Cobol and SQL use = for both.

Pascal, Modula-X, Algol, Ada, Oberon, and Eiffel use := for assignment, =
for compare-equal.

Fortran uses = for assignment and .EQ. for compare-equal.

APL uses squiggle quad bang hack splat over splat dot splat.

LISP uses -- well, no one really knows what the actual syntax is for LISP.
-- 
- Tim Roberts, timr at probo.com
  Providenza & Boekelheide, Inc.


From joe at notcharles.ca  Thu Apr  1 10:36:12 2004
From: joe at notcharles.ca (Joe Mason)
Date: Thu, 01 Apr 2004 15:36:12 GMT
Subject: Prothon Prototypes vs Python Classes
References: <569c605ld1cj8fc1emolk08ete0s1prls1@4ax.com>
	<slrnc6cge2.ctd.joe@gate.notcharles.ca>
	<69cbbef2.0403280928.438d194f@posting.google.com>
	<slrnc6e2sm.fhj.joe@gate.notcharles.ca>
	<69cbbef2.0403311324.32837704@posting.google.com>
	<slrnc6mvgv.rga.joe@gate.notcharles.ca>
	<gandreas-1F419E.08473601042004@news.mpls.visi.com>
Message-ID: <slrnc6oc1a.t66.joe@gate.notcharles.ca>

In article <gandreas-1F419E.08473601042004 at news.mpls.visi.com>, Glenn Andreas wrote:
>> There certainly is a standard syntax for making objects.  I need to know
>> how to "duplicate an existing object".  Is it "obj.dup()"?
>> "obj.clone()"?  "duplicate obj"?  Most probably, the language (or
>> standard library) defines one of these, and I expect most objects to be
>> duplicated in the same way.
>> 
> It can be a bit more subtle than that in a prototype based system, since 
> there are two things that are different, but have nearly identical 
> results, but could both be considered "duplicate an object".
> 
> In general, you don't want to _duplicate_ the object, but rather use 
> that object as "prototype" for the new object.
> 
> First, you can make a new object that has all the same 
> slots/properties/attributes as the first object - let's just call that 
> "clone" for now (and we'll assume single inheritence, via a slot called 
> "__parent")

<snip example>

> and we'll make the second object that has first object as the __parent 
> (and we'll pretend that the syntax is "new <some expression>"

<snip other example>

This is certainly how Self does it.  Other prototype based languages
(such as Io) do not make this distinction.  In Io, you use "clone" to
make a new object whose parent is the object it was cloned from, and
that's it.

Joe


From insert at spam.here  Thu Apr 22 10:25:18 2004
From: insert at spam.here (Doug Holton)
Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2004 09:25:18 -0500
Subject: python web programming / CMS
In-Reply-To: <EOOhc.82192$A9.5538906@phobos.telenet-ops.be>
References: <EOOhc.82192$A9.5538906@phobos.telenet-ops.be>
Message-ID: <x-mdnbERvMRaSBrdRVn-uA@comcast.com>

news.telenet.be wrote:

> Hi,
> 
> i'm looking at python to do programming for the new intranet
> here at the company. I'm looking at plone/zope also.
> Before, I've used jsp for webprogramming but i'm considering
> python for this.
> One thing that isn't clear to me is if it's possible to include python
> code in a html page like you would do with jsp and then have zope
> "translate" that to html. With jsp, one could use an apache/tomcat
> combo to accomplish this.
> If one can't include python in html, is Zope the only alternative and
> how does code look like then?
> 
> Thanks
> 
> 
Check out http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/moinmoin/WebProgramming
for all the python options.
I'd recommend checking out mod_python.  You can embed Python in HTML 
using mod_python's PSP.


From claird at lairds.com  Tue Apr  6 21:55:43 2004
From: claird at lairds.com (Cameron Laird)
Date: Wed, 07 Apr 2004 01:55:43 -0000
Subject: jpg, jpeg metadata
References: <8a560941.0403301948.146d251@posting.google.com>
	<s9mdnQz3BbxWy-7dRVn-uw@comcast.com>
Message-ID: <1076nsv7khdaod6@corp.supernews.com>

In article <s9mdnQz3BbxWy-7dRVn-uw at comcast.com>,
Larry Bates <lbates at swamisoft.com> wrote:
>Take a look a jhead.exe.  You can easily use os.system
>to call it from python.
>
>http://www.sentex.net/~mwandel/jhead/usage.html
			.
			.
			.
>"helmi03" <helmi03 at yahoo.com> wrote in message
>news:8a560941.0403301948.146d251 at posting.google.com...
>> does anyone know how to get/set jpg or other image types metadata using
>Python.
>> I had search in vault of parnassus and PIL, but only can read the EXIF.
>>
>> Long live Python!
>
>

It *is* possible in pure-Python, though:  <URL:
http://groups.google.com/groups?frame=left&th=73ab8883b7858761 >.
-- 

Cameron Laird <claird at phaseit.net>
Business:  http://www.Phaseit.net


From tismer at stackless.com  Fri Apr  2 08:30:29 2004
From: tismer at stackless.com (Christian Tismer)
Date: Fri, 02 Apr 2004 15:30:29 +0200
Subject: Nonsense (was: Stackless Website down, Project gone, I'm dead.)
In-Reply-To: <406CD030.5010506@stackless.com>
References: <406CD030.5010506@stackless.com>
Message-ID: <406D6AF5.1060809@stackless.com>

Christian Tismer *not* wrote:

> Dear Former Stackless Users,
...

No idea which fool tried to make fun of me.

The truth is: Stackless is in best helth, ever,
nothing is lost, and I'd like to know how they
faked my emails.

Have a nice weekend -- chris

-- 
Christian Tismer             :^)   <mailto:tismer at stackless.com>
Mission Impossible 5oftware  :     Have a break! Take a ride on Python's
Johannes-Niemeyer-Weg 9a     :    *Starship* http://starship.python.net/
14109 Berlin                 :     PGP key -> http://wwwkeys.pgp.net/
work +49 30 89 09 53 34  home +49 30 802 86 56  mobile +49 173 24 18 776
PGP 0x57F3BF04       9064 F4E1 D754 C2FF 1619  305B C09C 5A3B 57F3 BF04
      whom do you want to sponsor today?   http://www.stackless.com/




From faassen at infrae.com  Thu Apr 29 18:06:45 2004
From: faassen at infrae.com (Martijn Faassen)
Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2004 00:06:45 +0200
Subject: EuroPython early bird deadline very soon!
Message-ID: <mailman.1083329465.19709.clpa-moderators@python.org>

EuroPython news update april 30
===============================

EuroPython early bird registration deadline is may 1, next saturday!
After that you pay 60 euros more. Some cheap accomodation also still
available, so if you want to attend, hurry and register now!

EuroPython is the European Python and Zope Conference. This year in
its third edition, we are holding the conference in the beautiful
locale of G?teborg, Sweden. Hundreds of Python users and Zope users
are expected. The conference is from june 7 to june 9.

- The talk submission deadline has now passed. We now have an enormous
   selection of talks and are struggling to fit them all in the
   program. For the list of talks that have already been accepted
   (definitely not yet complete), see here:
 
http://www.europython.org/conferences/epc2004/info/talks/acceptedTalksOverview

   Many well known names in the Python community will be presenting,
   including keynote speaker Guido van Rossum.

   For those interested in Zope, look at the lineup of well-known
   people in the Zope community that are giving talks. It's a "can't
   miss" event in the Zope community!

- Our keynote speakers will be Mark Shuttleworth and Guido van
   Rossum.

   Mark Shuttleworth is many things, not least what we think was the
   first Python programmer in space. He is also is the sponsor of the
   schooltool project to develop an open source school administration
   system in Python. More about about him can be found at
   http://www.markshuttleworth.com/

   If you don't know who Guido van Rossum is, you really need to come
   to EuroPython to find out and meet him.

More information can be found at http://www.europython.org. Hope to
see you at EuroPython 2004!



From chris at suse.local  Mon Apr 26 00:12:46 2004
From: chris at suse.local (Chris)
Date: Sun, 25 Apr 2004 23:12:46 -0500
Subject: Trouble Understanding O'Reilly Example
References: <108p21f7asq1cc8@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <108p2o7j6lqqmc5@corp.supernews.com>

slyraymond wrote:

> def min1(*args):
> res?=?args[0]
> for?arg?in?args[1:]:
> if?arg?<?args:
> res?=?arg
> return?res
Apologizing for whatever damage knode did to the formatting, try:

if arg < res:

instead of

if arg < args

For debugging purposes, add the line

print args

just before the return statement to see exactly what is going on.

Chris


From donal.k.fellows at man.ac.uk  Mon Apr 19 08:55:08 2004
From: donal.k.fellows at man.ac.uk (Donal K. Fellows)
Date: Mon, 19 Apr 2004 13:55:08 +0100
Subject: Goodbye TCL
In-Reply-To: <1080ml0hdpp6tdf@corp.supernews.com>
References: <0LudnSads6NmpuPdRVn-vw@centurytel.net>
	<21ccedf1.0404160639.14c2d852@posting.google.com>
	<1080ml0hdpp6tdf@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <c60i7t$2aff$1@godfrey.mcc.ac.uk>

Cameron Laird wrote:
> 'Different way to say this:  "database", in this sense, is a dirty
> subject, in that it's far more tied to grungy details of specific
> implementations than the masses generally realize, or than either
> Python or Tcl, both of which prize purity in their own ways,
> generally support. A general database abstraction is about as
> rarefied as a general GUI abstraction.

I had a quick look into general DB APIs in the past, and the response I
got from the DB community at the time was "but this doesn't support this
*vital* feature only implemented in one DB that 0.01% of users really
need and therefore we could never ever use your proposal for a standard
API".  It's kind of discouraging.

FWIW, I think some mostly-common subset of functionality is possible (if
we assume SQL underneath; without that, you can't get anywhere) and it
would be enough to get most of the low-end and casual users total
satisfaction. And maybe this would encourage alteration in the high-end
interfaces to be more like each other too.

Donal.



From mcfletch at rogers.com  Fri Apr 23 15:48:21 2004
From: mcfletch at rogers.com (Mike C. Fletcher)
Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2004 15:48:21 -0400
Subject: Why we will use obj$func() often
In-Reply-To: <sUdic.28908$dZ1.19791@fed1read04>
References: <d2Uhc.22272$dZ1.1600@fed1read04>	<84Uhc.22278$dZ1.5087@fed1read04>	<mailman.927.1082665370.20120.python-list@python.org>	<8AWhc.23114$dZ1.11070@fed1read04>	<mailman.939.1082697809.20120.python-list@python.org>	<EradnVFq3IILkBTdRVn-vA@powergate.ca>	<Pedic.28731$dZ1.11479@fed1read04>
	<sUdic.28908$dZ1.19791@fed1read04>
Message-ID: <40897305.6010008@rogers.com>

Mark Hahn wrote:
...

>Peter:   You were making fun of how of fast I'm changing things in Prothon,
>right?  I was going along with that humour in my message.  Someone in a
>private message accused me of making fun of you, which I was definitely not
>doing.
>  
>
Ah, too bad, you might have fit in if you did ;) .  He's just *so* much 
fun to poke fun at. For crimminy's sake, he's from Canada, and you know 
how ridiculous they all are... blubber-eating igloo-wardens every last 
one of them.  It's practically impossible to take one of them seriously 
as a computer programmer, I mean, really, a modern computer would just 
melt the igloo down around their heads.

*poof*

_______________________________________
  Mike C. Fletcher
  Designer, VR Plumber, Coder
  http://members.rogers.com/mcfletch/





From richie at entrian.com  Sun Apr  4 11:41:59 2004
From: richie at entrian.com (Richie Hindle)
Date: Sun, 04 Apr 2004 16:41:59 +0100
Subject: ANNOUNCE: 'goto' for Python
In-Reply-To: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCAEOAJPAB.tim.one@comcast.net>
References: <ip1t60pm9gu1ou8r0atn63en2iom91hg7r@4ax.com>
	<LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCAEOAJPAB.tim.one@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <dka070lq7er483d0cuv1fn2gvhst4ec3ff@4ax.com>


[Tim]
> Guido has already accepted your module for inclusion in Python 2.4, and I
> expect he'll use his time machine then to ensure that it's always been part
> of Python.

Great!  That will have saved me a lot of work, once the new time-line
comes into effect.  I can re-use the time for the next job - enhancing
Python's parser to allow Duff's Device.

> [Explanation of numeric labels snipped]
> Your introduction of alphanumeric labels to Python is already far advanced.

Ah, OK, good.  I won't have to re-learn anything when the new feature goes
into Python 0.1.

> I must say, though, that the restriction to 5 digits in Fortran had the nice
> Pythonic effect of discouraging a subroutine from containing more than a
> hundred thousand branch targets

That's a good point, but not really applicable here.  I haven't limited
the number of labels, partly because I don't want any B&D to the feature,
and partly because alphanumeric labels ought to be more differentiable
than numeric ones.

> Full speed ahead!

Or backwards, or in fact to pretty much anywhere!

-- 
Richie Hindle
richie at entrian.com




From jepler at unpythonic.net  Sat Apr 17 13:10:14 2004
From: jepler at unpythonic.net (Jeff Epler)
Date: Sat, 17 Apr 2004 12:10:14 -0500
Subject: Static Modules...
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0404171006210.27811-100000@e5-05.ee.ualberta.ca>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0404171006210.27811-100000@e5-05.ee.ualberta.ca>
Message-ID: <20040417171013.GA18480@unpythonic.net>

I tossed this in my PYTHONSTARTUP file, to see how I like it.
No complaints so far, and it might make the interactive prompt even
easier to use.

Jeff



From youngdubliner at hotmail.com  Wed Apr 21 22:15:07 2004
From: youngdubliner at hotmail.com (youngdubliner at hotmail.com)
Date: 21 Apr 2004 19:15:07 -0700
Subject: Py_ParseTuple  Problem
References: <4039221c.0404202256.3f21d817@posting.google.com>
	<40867D57.3050705@magma-da.com>
Message-ID: <4039221c.0404211815.2cad28f7@posting.google.com>

Thanks Rick , 

Thats excellent I tried your code , changed it a little and it works 
really well. 

I didn't even know that PyTuple_Size() existed , handy little function that.  

Thanks again !

Keith.


From jacob at cd.chalmers.se  Wed Apr 14 11:22:40 2004
From: jacob at cd.chalmers.se (Jacob Hallen)
Date: 14 Apr 2004 15:22:40 GMT
Subject: Europython update
Message-ID: <mailman.1081975323.19405.clpa-moderators@python.org>

Europython news update
======================

- Due to our earlier delays, we have decided to push the deadline for
submitting talks until the 26th of April. While we have a nice set of
proposals in several tracks, there are some that neeed a boost. Submit
your talk today!

- Early Bird registration is open, as is registration for cheap accomodation.
Deadline for both of these is 1 May 2004. This deadline will not move.

- Our keynote speakers will be Guido van Rossum and Mark Shuttleworth.
If you don't know who Mark Shuttleworth is, find out at
http://www.markshuttleworth.com/.
If you don't know who Guido van Rossum is, you really need to come to
Europython to find out.

About Europython
================

Europython is a community Python and Zope conference that is now in
its third year. It will be held in G?teborg, Sweden from 7 June 2004
until 9 June 2004. There will be many tracks, tutorials, sprints, good
food, good weather and lots of fun. G?teborg offers lots of fun things
to do, so it is a good opportunity to bring your family.

Find out more at http://www.europython.org

-- 



From skip at pobox.com  Wed Apr 28 09:19:06 2004
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Wed, 28 Apr 2004 08:19:06 -0500
Subject: Can't import Object Craft's Sybase module...
Message-ID: <16527.44875.3535.268001@montanaro.dyndns.org>


I downloaded and built Object Craft's Sybase module but can't import it:

    % PYTHONSTARTUP= python
    Python 2.4a0 (#4, Mar 31 2004, 15:02:21) 
    [GCC 3.3.2] on sunos5
    Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
    >>> import Sybase
    Traceback (most recent call last):
      File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
      File "/home/titan/skipm/local/lib/python2.4/site-packages/Sybase.py", line 20, in ?
        from sybasect import *
    ImportError: ld.so.1: python: fatal: relocation error: file /opt/sybase/lib/libblk.so: symbol srv__get_xdrrecv: referenced symbol not found

The comp.lang.python archives from late 2001 contain a message from Dave
Cole about this same problem, but as far as I could tell there was never any
resolution.

My environment for this mini-project is Solaris 9 on Intel.  I've scanned
every directory I can think of (/usr/lib, /opt/sybase/lib, /opt/Forte*, etc)
looking for .so files containing that symbol but haven't found anything.  I
wasn't able to fine anything on the Sybase website either.

Any suggestions appreciated.

Skip




From rmmcgettigan at nospam.students.latrobe.edu.au  Tue Apr  6 23:42:53 2004
From: rmmcgettigan at nospam.students.latrobe.edu.au (mcgetts)
Date: Tue, 06 Apr 2004 23:42:53 -0400
Subject: Forgotten passwords?
Message-ID: <fcbeb02e32ce853e09710670e2753e2c@localhost.talkaboutprogramming.com>

Any suggestions as to what 2 do if password to programme such as webct /
lola is forgotten?



From no.email at please.com  Tue Apr 13 15:42:00 2004
From: no.email at please.com (Stevie_mac)
Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2004 20:42:00 +0100
Subject: Python crashes - cannot pin it down!
References: <qDUec.75076$Id.1355@news-binary.blueyonder.co.uk>
	<c5h7cf$8td$1@news3.tilbu1.nb.home.nl>
Message-ID: <WnXec.139$4K5.137@news-binary.blueyonder.co.uk>

Woo hoo - It works!

Had to be something I was doing!

Couple of questions...
* Do I need this in every py file (where wx is used) - or just once in say - main() ?
* Do I need to test app == None (or just let app = wxPySimpleApp() occur every time)
* Do I need to Del app afterwards or app.Destroy() or ... ?

Last question, what's happening here! I mean...
>>> app = wxPySimpleApp()
>>> app.MainLoop()
Is this some form of *required* initialisation of wx?


Finally, Thanks very much for taking the time to respond - Stevie_Mac  :happy again:




From rastm2 at aol.com  Tue Apr 13 09:29:16 2004
From: rastm2 at aol.com (RASTM2)
Date: 13 Apr 2004 13:29:16 GMT
Subject: Newbie Question about Python win 32 -200
Message-ID: <20040413092916.10047.00000337@mb-m17.aol.com>

Hello, 
I installed the python2.3.3exe for windows then installed the
pywin32-200.win32-py23.exe

and when pywin ide loads it hangs with this traceback

"""Python Traceback when executing Initinstance handler"""
  File "C:\PYTHON23\Lib\site-packages\Pythonwin\pywin\framework\intpyapp.py",
line 163, in InitInstance
    import interact
  File "C:\PYTHON23\Lib\site-packages\Pythonwin\pywin\framework\interact.py",
line 26, in ?
    import winout
  File "C:\PYTHON23\Lib\site-packages\Pythonwin\pywin\framework\winout.py",
line 26, in ?
    from pywintypes import UnicodeType
  File "C:\PYTHON23\Lib\site-packages\win32\lib\pywintypes.py", line 55, in ?
    __import_pywin32_system_module__("pywintypes", globals())
  File "C:\PYTHON23\Lib\site-packages\win32\lib\pywintypes.py", line 48, in
__import_pywin32_system_module__
    raise ImportError, "Can not locate " + filename
exceptions.ImportError: Can not locate pywintypes23.dll 

I'm on windows 98.

Can someone please explain too me what this means and maybe tell me how to fix
it. 

Thank you, 
Ray St. Marie 
Rastm2 at aol.com



From has.temp2 at virgin.net  Fri Apr 30 16:43:07 2004
From: has.temp2 at virgin.net (has)
Date: 30 Apr 2004 13:43:07 -0700
Subject: Is classless worth consideration
References: <g9k090lhocd1nbd7g230br6ooub113hjt6@4ax.com>
	<69cbbef2.0404290259.fd8d71c@posting.google.com>
	<MbWdnTRxROYvZg3dRVn-uw@powergate.ca>
	<69cbbef2.0404291209.7a98a799@posting.google.com>
	<boydnb9qfrqWJQzdRVn-gw@powergate.ca>
	<8ef9bea6.0404292307.66b78b83@posting.google.com>
	<84Kdnfu3OoN4oA_dRVn-vg@powergate.ca>
Message-ID: <69cbbef2.0404301243.451c7b26@posting.google.com>

Peter Hansen <peter at engcorp.com> wrote in message news:<84Kdnfu3OoN4oA_dRVn-vg at powergate.ca>...
> Hung Jung Lu wrote:
> 
> > I have also pointed out previously that
> > Python uses 5 devices where prototype-based needs only one: (a) class,
> > (b) instance, (c) module, (d) metaclass, (e) scope. If this is not
> > hideously baroque, then, Houston, we've got a problem. If you can
> > really think outside the box, you'd pitch in also: (f) aspect.
> 
> Well, (c) module is merely a packaging technique, not anything
> to do specifically with OOP, so it shouldn't appear in a list
> of "what do you think makes Python's OO model hideously baroque".

Modules are an encapsulation mechanism, just like class instances, so
I'd say the large and obvious overlap counts as unnecessary
duplication of functionality that by rights ought to have been
factored out of the language design early on. So I think it's
reasonable to count them, especially seeing how proto-OO languages
have no problems eliminating them as a distinct type.

> As for class and instance, unless all other languages that
> have class and instance are also considered baroque, it
> hardly seems fair to separate them.

Classes and instances are the foundation upon which baroqueness is
subsequently built. Eliminating the former not only gets rid of
another unnecessary type, it also removes the need for a lot of the
shenannigans that its presence encourages.

> Scope doesn't quite seem to fit in this either, but not
> being a theoretician I'll just leave the discussion at
> this point and point out that for the purposes of a *large*
> majority of the people using Python, these issues do not
> arise and Python OO is very much a breath of fresh air
> compared to anything else they've used.  Which still makes
> it hard for me to see a claim of "hideous baroqueness" as
> anything other than deliberately inflammatory, but wrong.

Oh, I dunno. Let's see now... aside from classes and instances, which
proto-OO has already established is one more type than you need, we
also have (off the top of my head and in no particular order): magic
methods, magic hidden slots, funny privacy, __init__, descriptors,
self as argument, class methods (and variables), making calls to
superclasses, old-style/new-style classes, 'class' vs. 'type'
distinction, coercion, more magic methods (e.g. __slots__), super(),
the usual complaints about inheritance breaking encapsulation and
multiple inheritance gotchas, *anything* beginning with 'meta'... ech,
I could probably go on, but that ought to get you rolling.


You really should go check out Self, NewtonScript, etc. to broaden
your perspective of what OO is, and can be. Don't worry; the fresh
air'll do you good, and I'm sure Python will withstand my mean ol'
attacks upon its fine name in the meantime. :)


From claird at lairds.com  Mon Apr 26 11:57:33 2004
From: claird at lairds.com (Cameron Laird)
Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2004 15:57:33 -0000
Subject: IronPythoneers in the house? (was: interfacing to a remote excel
	app)
References: <20040426150428.69010a3c@pistache.sara.nl>
	<xqxad0yvld2.fsf@cola2.ca.boeing.com>
Message-ID: <108qcbd1c3glf05@corp.supernews.com>

In article <xqxad0yvld2.fsf at cola2.ca.boeing.com>,
Harry George  <harry.g.george at boeing.com> wrote:
			.
		[considerable wisdom 
		about security, MS
		lock-in, and archi-
		tecture]
			.
			.
>.NET remoting, and try to reach that from Mono or DotGNU.  But .NET
>and its clones are not very Python-friendly, so the bindings may not
>be available.  Even if you got it to work, you would be in a Microsoft
			.
			.
			.
I suspect we should be careful what we say (at least in
public) about compatibility with .NET.  I hope someone
more knowledgeable on this score than I will jump in soon.

I entirely agree with the conclusion that the original 
poster has ... well, he's going to need changes, no matter
what Python's capabilities are.
-- 

Cameron Laird <claird at phaseit.net>
Business:  http://www.Phaseit.net


From peter at engcorp.com  Tue Apr 13 08:39:56 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2004 08:39:56 -0400
Subject: Random Numbers and a thought
In-Reply-To: <y5Kec.22002$Lu4.12475@newssvr27.news.prodigy.com>
References: <107m6f0t4i0gnff@corp.supernews.com>
	<ctednRIVbfzSgObdRVn-gQ@powergate.ca>
	<107m8qvphrjd303@corp.supernews.com>
	<y5Kec.22002$Lu4.12475@newssvr27.news.prodigy.com>
Message-ID: <407BDF9C.1050908@engcorp.com>

Moosebumps wrote:

> Yeah, this is not really a python question at all... go ask on sci.math or
> comp.programming and have people discourage and flame you there.  : )

Was anyone flaming anyone here?


From roy at panix.com  Sun Apr 11 09:00:24 2004
From: roy at panix.com (Roy Smith)
Date: Sun, 11 Apr 2004 09:00:24 -0400
Subject: Python is the best and most popular general purpose scripting
	language; the universal scripting language
References: <a5415304.0404101350.271088f2@posting.google.com>
	<roy-22B4DA.18282210042004@reader1.panix.com>
	<c59u4k$ki9$1@atlantis.news.tpi.pl>
	<30260531.0404102015.5d74be7b@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <roy-D5652C.09002411042004@reader1.panix.com>

simoninusa2001 at yahoo.co.uk (simo) wrote:
> I always thought "scripting language" means interpreted instead of
> compiled into machine code (not bytecode).

When Apple first came out with the PowerPC processors, they emulated the 
old 68k instruction set in software, so you could continue to run 68k 
binaries.  Did those old programs suddenly become scripts instead of 
programs because they were no longer running on the hardware? :-)


From haim at babysnakes.org  Wed Apr 14 09:59:46 2004
From: haim at babysnakes.org (Haim Ashkenazi)
Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2004 16:59:46 +0300
Subject: pyKDE won't build
References: <dRafc.246$Z07.240@news-binary.blueyonder.co.uk>
Message-ID: <c5jg4i$8q3$1@sea.gmane.org>

Steven wrote:

> Hi folks,
> I'm trying to install pyKDE.
> python, pyQT and sip are installed and working.
> 
> I run python build.py and get the error shown at the end.
> sip -V gives 3.10.1 (3.10.1-192)
> PyQt version is 3.11
> 
>>From the traceback it detects the wrong sip version, but I don't know how
>>to
> make it detect the correct version. There is only one version of sip on my
> system. (slackware linux 9.1)
> I don't understand python, but need pyKDE to make something else work.
> 
> Any help greatfully appreciated,
afaik, you have to have the same version of pyqt, sip and pykde. pykde 3.11
is on it's way, but not ready yet. take a look at the pykde mailing list.

Bye
--
Haim




From grahamd at dscpl.com.au  Thu Apr 22 06:42:21 2004
From: grahamd at dscpl.com.au (Graham Dumpleton)
Date: 22 Apr 2004 03:42:21 -0700
Subject: Dealing with multiple versions of packages...
References: <62c819a5.0404201235.c1649c5@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <dc6f5c99.0404220242.4ca35f6e@posting.google.com>

Chris.Barker at noaa.gov (Chris Barker) wrote in message news:<62c819a5.0404201235.c1649c5 at posting.google.com>...
> Hi all,
> 
> We've been having a discussion over on the wxPython-users mailing list
> about how to deal with multiple versions of wxPython. During the
> discussion it came up that this isn't a problem faced only by
> wxPython, but would have to be dealt with by virtually all packages.

Check out Pmw (pmw.sourceforge.net) for ideas. It stores stuff under a
root of Pmw, but then has separate directories under that for each version.
Ie., Pmw_1_1, Pmw_1_2, etc. The __init__.py in the root is then a special
lazy loader which by default uses the latest version, but you can specify
a specific version by using a setversion() method. Whatever version you
end up using, everything is still referenced as Pmw.SomeClass rather
than having to hard code the version everywhere.


From Holger.Joukl at LBBW.de  Tue Apr 13 04:39:49 2004
From: Holger.Joukl at LBBW.de (Holger Joukl)
Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2004 10:39:49 +0200
Subject: compiling Python 2.3.3 Solaris 9 x86 question
Message-ID: <OFC0791606.F8DB077F-ONC1256E75.002D456A@lbbw.sko.de>


Stefan wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I am trying to build Python 2.3.3 on Solaris 9 x86. Everything goes fine
> except that I have some issues with curses module ...
>

Hi Stefan,
I had some python 2.3.3 build problems a while ago on a
solaris 8 system. I ended up modifying setup.py to know about
the "non-standard" paths where our stuff is installed, e.g. the
detect_modules method:

   241      def detect_modules(self):
   242          ### Ensure that /usr/local is always used
   243          ##add_dir_to_list(self.compiler.library_dirs,
'/usr/local/lib')
   244          ##add_dir_to_list(self.compiler.include_dirs,
'/usr/local/include')
   245
   246          # add_dir inserts as first list element, so /apps/prod
should come last
   247          add_dir_to_list(self.compiler.library_dirs,
'/apps/local/lib')
   248          add_dir_to_list(self.compiler.include_dirs,
'/apps/local/include')
   249          add_dir_to_list(self.compiler.library_dirs,
'/apps/prod/lib')
   250          add_dir_to_list(self.compiler.include_dirs,
'/apps/prod/include')
   251
   252          # fink installs lots of goodies in /sw/... - make sure we
   253          # check there
   254          if sys.platform == "darwin":
   255              add_dir_to_list(self.compiler.library_dirs, '/sw/lib')
   256              add_dir_to_list(self.compiler.include_dirs,
'/sw/include')
   257
   258          ##??? Why would I want to set -I and -L paths for the
destination dir?
   259          ## (sys.prefix == --prefix=<installation PREFIX dir, given
to configure>
   260          ##if os.path.normpath(sys.prefix) != '/usr':
   261          ##    add_dir_to_list(self.compiler.library_dirs,
   262          ##                    sysconfig.get_config_var("LIBDIR"))
   263          ##    add_dir_to_list(self.compiler.include_dirs,
   264          ##
sysconfig.get_config_var("INCLUDEDIR"))
   265

and also some runtime lib paths:

  667          # Curses support, requring the System V version of curses,
often
   668          # provided by the ncurses library.
   669          if platform == 'sunos4':
   670              inc_dirs += ['/usr/5include']
   671              lib_dirs += ['/usr/5lib']
   672
   673          if (self.compiler.find_library_file(lib_dirs, 'ncurses')):
   674              curses_libs = ['ncurses']
   675              exts.append( Extension('_curses', ['_cursesmodule.c'],
   676
define_macros=[('HAVE_NCURSES_H', 1)],
   677
runtime_library_dirs=['/apps/prod/lib'],
   678                                     libraries = curses_libs) )

Without the modifications, some of the extension modules (gdbm, curses,
readline) would
not build. Not exactly nice and portable, but I do not have the time right
now.

>Regarding this problem looks like 'configure' does not pickup
>Solaris's curses library.
>I had to manually pass to configure command libncurses library
>
>
>LDFLAGS="-L/opt/sfw/lib -R/opt/sfw/lib -lncurses"
>CPPFLAGS="-I/optsfw/include" ./configure --prefix=/usr/local
>--with-threads --enable-shared
>

Does this work for you when you finally run setup.py?

>Does this mean that python needs libncurses and can not work with
>Solaris curses library !?

I?m afraid I have no clues. Where does the Solaris curses reside?

Bye,
  Holger

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From stach at fr.USUN.pl  Thu Apr 15 11:58:19 2004
From: stach at fr.USUN.pl (Krzysztof Stachlewski)
Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2004 17:58:19 +0200
Subject: Error copying a file
In-Reply-To: <c5ka45$c8v$1@newshost.mot.com>
References: <c5ka45$c8v$1@newshost.mot.com>
Message-ID: <c5mbfv$qc4$1@absinth.dialog.net.pl>

Stephen Boulet wrote:
> I know that the name of this file is somewhat pathological, but this if 
> weird:
> 
>  >>> print myfile
> E:\Fritz Reiner\Rimsky-Korsakov--Scheherazade.Debussy--La Mer\01 
> Symphonic Suite after "A Thousand and One Nights" - The Sea and Sinbad's 
> Ship.ogg

It seems you are on Windows box.
What filesystem do you use?
I have just tried to create such a file, but the filesystem (NTFS)
refuses to use " as part of the name.

-- 
Stach  Tlen: stachobywatelpl, GG: 1811474
        Jabber: stach at jabber atman pl


From jacek.generowicz at cern.ch  Fri Apr 23 03:43:22 2004
From: jacek.generowicz at cern.ch (Jacek Generowicz)
Date: 23 Apr 2004 09:43:22 +0200
Subject: AOP use cases
References: <84fc4588.0404140106.3fa0c55@posting.google.com>
	<slrnc7q1ss.1aa.alf@largo.fayauffre.org>
	<cb035744.0404141130.170f51c4@posting.google.com>
	<slrnc7sgat.vp.alf@largo.fayauffre.org>
	<cb035744.0404160442.2f0b1661@posting.google.com>
	<0pydnSB4WYuieuLdRVn-hQ@powergate.ca>
	<tyfbrlkv3ae.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
	<XYmdnVLB9rjbARrdRVn-vg@powergate.ca>
	<tyf7jw8utoo.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
	<c68fj5$7bt$1@news1.wdf.sap-ag.de>
	<tyfvfjst2k9.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
	<tyffzav62ux.fsf@lxplus054.cern.ch>
	<mailman.934.1082681832.20120.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <tyfvfjrp2at.fsf@lxplus026.cern.ch>

"Terry Reedy" <tjreedy at udel.edu> writes:

> The funny thing about this example is that its success critically depends
> on fib *not* being 'optimized' by having the recursive calls being either
> compiled as or replaced by (as with Hettinger's recent proposal) efficient
> local calls.

Please remember that the _point_ of the example is to show what
separation of concerns is, in the context of the claim that C moving
IO from language to library constitutes separation of concerns.

Picking nits in the implementation details is completely missing the point.


From jeffh at activestate.com  Tue Apr 20 00:16:29 2004
From: jeffh at activestate.com (Jeff Hobbs)
Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 04:16:29 GMT
Subject: Goodbye TCL
In-Reply-To: <roy-02BF89.11323816042004@reader2.panix.com>
References: <0LudnSads6NmpuPdRVn-vw@centurytel.net>
	<f82c8ae7.0404151057.67333d4e@posting.google.com>
	<107u6ef5a2ise19@news.supernews.com>
	<f82c8ae7.0404160731.7473b61f@posting.google.com>
	<roy-02BF89.11323816042004@reader2.panix.com>
Message-ID: <4084A419.3020004@activestate.com>

Roy Smith wrote:

> In article <f82c8ae7.0404160731.7473b61f at posting.google.com>,
>  blacksqr at usa.net (Stephen Huntley) wrote:
> 
> 
>>I would be curious to know what is the biggest-capacity Python network
>>application in use?  How does it scale in comparison with AOLServer? 
>>Any ideas?
> 
> 
> How about the one you're using to post your articles -- Google.

This is no longer true - google did use Python at one point, but
now it is reserved for internal company stuff only, as google
really required hard-core C/C++ for the speed and scale at which
it performs.

-- 
     Jeff Hobbs, The Tcl Guy
     http://www.ActiveState.com/, a division of Sophos


From theller at python.net  Fri Apr 23 13:00:58 2004
From: theller at python.net (Thomas Heller)
Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2004 19:00:58 +0200
Subject: Multi-threaded printing and IOErrors in Windows
References: <10nll1-rt5.ln1@home.rogerbinns.com>
	<c6acl7$7u8$1@ctb-nnrp2.saix.net>
	<ri4nl1-n9d.ln1@home.rogerbinns.com>
Message-ID: <wu468w8l.fsf@python.net>

"Roger Binns" <rogerb at rogerbinns.com> writes:

> David Fraser wrote:
>> sys.stdout is not threadsafe - try wrapping each call with a mutext and
>> see if that fixes it...
>
> Having to wrap hundreds of random print statements just using for
> debugging seems really silly.  Note that I don't care if the
> output gets garbled.  (It doesn't on Mac or Linux ever).
>
> And I am only hitting this problem on Windows when wrapped
> with py2exe.  If running outside of py2exe there is never
> any problem.
>
> When using py2exe, the stdout doesn't go anywhere anyway
> (it is gui app not a console app).
>
> The bizarre thing is that the IOError is very infrequent,
> but very annoying when it happens.

If you have a small program which allows to reproduce this, I'll look
into it.

Thomas




From roy at panix.com  Thu Apr  8 16:52:35 2004
From: roy at panix.com (Roy Smith)
Date: Thu, 08 Apr 2004 16:52:35 -0400
Subject: List vs tuples
References: <c54cjb$5fs$1@planja.arnes.si>
Message-ID: <roy-BA9932.16523508042004@reader1.panix.com>

In article <c54cjb$5fs$1 at planja.arnes.si>, "Mitja" <tezt at email.si> 
wrote:

> A neewbie's question here, probably discussed before:
> what's the purpose of having both lists AND tuples?
> At the first (and second and third, to be honest) glance lists are just
> tuples with extended functionality, so why have tuples around?
> I've been working with Python for a few months now but haven't yet come
> across a problem that would really require tuples.
> 
> Thanks in advance,
> Mitja

The biggest reason that I can think of is that tuples are immutable, and 
you need an immutable object to be a dictionary key.

Also, without knowing the details of how they are implemented, my guess 
would be that tuples are more efficient, as a direct result of their 
immutability.


From franck.lepoutre at caramail.com  Mon Apr 26 03:03:05 2004
From: franck.lepoutre at caramail.com (francois lepoutre)
Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2004 09:03:05 +0200
Subject: Paris python user group?
References: <408795ee$0$25893$79c14f64@nan-newsreader-02.noos.net>
	<c6d4pt$pca$1@news-reader2.wanadoo.fr>
Message-ID: <408cb35f$0$20699$79c14f64@nan-newsreader-02.noos.net>

> L'id?e est int?ressante. Je serait assez tent?, s'il n'y avait pas cette
> s?gr?gation pro-parisienne.

Pas plus de de tropisme parisien, d'anglicisation sauvage que de
beurre en broche ...

Il s'agit simplement de permettre aux pythonistes parisiens
de se retrouver pour boire ensemble et ? ?changes au
gr? des affinit?s.

S'ils le souhaitent  et comme le font les perlistes parisiens.

> C'est vrai, quoi !  Pourquoi vous limiter ? Paris ? Il y a des coins
> nettement moins pollu?s que Paris, et donc plus productif
> (pythoniquement parlant).

Eh oui, c'est un provincial "exil? de l'int?rieur" qui a v?cu
et boss? jusqu'il y a peu au bord de l'eau (iod?) qui prend
cette initiative.

> Vive l'Ard?che !

Le fait de monter un groupe sur Paris (il en existe dans
de nombreuses grandes villes) n'interdit pas ? d'autres
de monter des "python user group" partout ailleurs ...

http://www.python.org/community/user-groups.html

L'objectif des "python user groups" est de proposer
une rencontre "non-virtuelle" r?guli?re, typiquement
mensuelle,  et le plus souvent en d?but de soir?e, soit
autour d'un pot informel soit autour d'un th?me de
discussion.

Peut-?tre peut-on envisager d'autres formes de
de r?unions ? Aux ard?chois et aux autres de
plancher :)

A+




From opengeometry at yahoo.ca  Sun Apr  4 03:16:21 2004
From: opengeometry at yahoo.ca (William Park)
Date: 4 Apr 2004 07:16:21 GMT
Subject: Simulate socket with files or stdin/stdout
References: <c4fenn$o9h$1@newshispeed.ch>
Message-ID: <c4oco3$2kf4mi$1@ID-99293.news.uni-berlin.de>

Jean-Pierre Bergamin <james at ractive.ch> wrote:
> Dear python-Community
> 
> We are forced to use a quite old simulation software that's based on
> Modula-2. The idea is now to let this software "talk" to the outside world
> over a TCP/IP network.
> 
> Since the program has no possibility to use sockets or other mechanisms to
> send data over the network we have the idea to let python do the network
> part and let the simu software communicate with the python script in some
> other way:
> 
> One idea is to use stdout and stdin (but I'm not even sure if stdout/in are
> available in the simulation software).

This might be important, so you should find out... don't you think?

> 
> +------------+  stdout     stdin  +------------+  socket.write
> |            |------------------->|  python-   |----------------
> | Simulation |                    |  script    |
> |            |<-------------------|            |<---------------
> +------------+  stdin      stdout +------------+  socket.read

In Bash, Ksh,
    exec 3<>/dev/tcp/remote.host/4000 0<&3 1>&3
    simulation
    exec 3<&-
You can achieve the same thing, by running 'simulation' under 'inetd'.

> 
> 
> The other idea is to use files to communicate between the simultion program
> and the python script.
> 
> +------------+     +------+     +------------+  socket.write
> |            |---->|      |---->|  python-   |--------------
> | Simulation |     | File |     |  script    |
> |            |<----|      |<----|            |<-------------
> +------------+     +------+     +------------+  socket.read

Bad design.  Outgoing data from 'file' can go to 'simulation' or to
'python-script'.  How do you know what data should go to what direction?
That is, how does 'file' know whether 'simulation' or 'python-script' is
reading it?

If "input" and "output" files are different, then it's different story.

-- 
William Park, Open Geometry Consulting, <opengeometry at yahoo.ca>
Linux solution for data processing and document management.


From jdhunter at ace.bsd.uchicago.edu  Thu Apr  1 08:11:19 2004
From: jdhunter at ace.bsd.uchicago.edu (John Hunter)
Date: Thu, 01 Apr 2004 07:11:19 -0600
Subject: test for nan
In-Reply-To: <m3fzbovu2v.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk> (Michael Hudson's
	message of "Thu, 1 Apr 2004 11:03:20 GMT")
References: <mailman.138.1080679635.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<c4gjfj$gt4$1@swifty.westend.com>
	<m3fzbovu2v.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <m2wu4zalmw.fsf@mother.paradise.lost>

>>>>> "Michael" == Michael Hudson <mwh at python.net> writes:

    Michael> This will work with 2.3 on Windows (I believe), current
    Michael> CVS on Windows (if compiled with VC7.1), current CVS on
    Michael> Linux (assuming an even vaguely recent gcc), but not
    Michael> current CVS on Windows compiled with VC6, nor Python 2.3
    Michael> on Linux/gcc.  Confused yet?

Fortunately I only need linux for this particular app, so I can use
one of the platform dependent solutions, but the bevy of proposed
solutions and gotchas have definitely been interesting.

Out of curiosity, are there any platforms where this is known to fail?

  def is_nan(x):
      return str(x).lower().find('nan')>=0

JDH



From bokr at oz.net  Wed Apr 28 20:30:57 2004
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 29 Apr 2004 00:30:57 GMT
Subject: Why we will use obj$func() often
References: <d2Uhc.22272$dZ1.1600@fed1read04> <84Uhc.22278$dZ1.5087@fed1read04>
	<mailman.927.1082665370.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<8AWhc.23114$dZ1.11070@fed1read04> <40883BFE.B381518A@alcyone.com>
	<27_hc.23801$dZ1.2716@fed1read04> <40887145.789A2FE8@alcyone.com>
	<7cki80hj976bia36lhf9er97v073o1pqvm@4ax.com>
	<w8dic.28710$dZ1.11206@fed1read04> <ulXiAls/KH1K089yn@the-wire.com>
	<lkfic.29767$dZ1.17301@fed1read04>
	<donn-66132E.15345723042004@nntp3.u.washington.edu>
	<PLhic.30493$dZ1.22063@fed1read04>
	<c6huj3$c3s3f$1@ID-169208.news.uni-berlin.de>
	<u8zjc.7394$Qy.127@fed1read04>
	<c6ni3j$e0vbb$1@ID-169208.news.uni-berlin.de>
	<5vJjc.13116$Qy.1954@fed1read04>
	<donn-FB76CA.11024928042004@nntp3.u.washington.edu>
	<52Ujc.16275$Qy.3111@fed1read04>
	<donn-CF90D7.14211828042004@nntp3.u.washington.edu>
Message-ID: <c6pic1$8qm$0@216.39.172.122>

On Wed, 28 Apr 2004 14:21:18 -0700, Donn Cave <donn at u.washington.edu> wrote:
[...]
>work.  When I dream of a better language, it's not pasting new
>gimmicks on Python, it's really a radically different direction.
You teaser ;-)

Regards,
Bengt Richter


From dankoski at cisco.com  Mon Apr 19 15:36:48 2004
From: dankoski at cisco.com (Paul Dankoski)
Date: Mon, 19 Apr 2004 12:36:48 -0700
Subject: Python IDLE GUI
Message-ID: <1082403283.261220@sj-nntpcache-5>


Hello.  I downloaded and installed Windows Python-2.3.exe.
The install appears to be successful.  There is a Start menu
item showing "Python 2.3"  --> "IDLE (Python GUI)".

When I select this, nothing appears on my Windows 2000 screen.

However, if I look at the task manager, I see "pythonw.exe",
which I assume applies that the process is indeed running.

I expect some sort of GUI to open.

I checked the INSTALL.LOG file.   The only thing that possibly looks 
fishy is:

Date/Time: Following file not copied.
File Overwrite: C:\WINNT\system32\msvcirt.dll | 05-08-2001 | 06:00:00 | 
6.1.8637.0 | 77878 | 571d0e6
Date/Time: Following file not copied.
File Overwrite: C:\WINNT\system32\msvcrt.dll | 06-19-2003 | 12:05:04 | 
6.1.9844.0 | 295000 | 770c8856

Any ideas on what I should try next?

Thanks,

Paul D.


From fpetermaas at netscape.net  Thu Apr  1 03:34:14 2004
From: fpetermaas at netscape.net (Peter Maas)
Date: Thu, 01 Apr 2004 10:34:14 +0200
Subject: ANNOUNCE: 'goto' for Python
In-Reply-To: <mailman.210.1080803438.20120.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.210.1080803438.20120.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <c4gk3c$hfb$1@swifty.westend.com>

Richie Hindle wrote:
> Entrian Solutions is pleased to announce version 1.0 of the 'goto' module.
> 
> This adds the 'goto' and 'comefrom' keywords to Python 2.3, adding
> flexibility to Python's control flow mechanisms and allowing Python
> programmers to use many common control flow idioms that were previously
> denied to them.

Great!!! This will enhance Python's yet poor capabilities to write
code with a behaviour hard to predict by programmers thereby adding
a human touch to the sometimes too clean and dull Python language!

Mit freundlichen Gruessen,

Peter Maas

-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Peter Maas, M+R Infosysteme, D-52070 Aachen, Hubert-Wienen-Str. 24
Tel +49-241-93878-0 Fax +49-241-93878-20 eMail peter.maas at mplusr.de
-------------------------------------------------------------------


From martin at v.loewis.de  Thu Apr 22 16:44:17 2004
From: martin at v.loewis.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?=22Martin_v=2E_L=F6wis=22?=)
Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2004 22:44:17 +0200
Subject: Regexp optimization question
In-Reply-To: <slrnc8gal3.9da.mlh@furu.idi.ntnu.no>
References: <slrnc8gal3.9da.mlh@furu.idi.ntnu.no>
Message-ID: <c69aqq$3h2$06$1@news.t-online.com>

Magnus Lie Hetland wrote:
> I've tried to speed this up by using the same trick as SPARK, putting
> all the regexps into a single or-group in a new regexp. That helped a
> *lot* -- but now I have to find out which one of them matched at a
> certain location.

Are you using the .lastindex attribute of match objects yet?

Martin



From jacob at cd.chalmers.se  Fri Apr  9 20:21:10 2004
From: jacob at cd.chalmers.se (Jacob Hallen)
Date: 10 Apr 2004 00:21:10 GMT
Subject: Europython update: Registration open
Message-ID: <mailman.1081559282.16176.clpa-moderators@python.org>

Europython Update
=================

- Registration is now open. We apologise for the delay, but we have
had some technical problems.

- Due to this, we have decided to keep the submission of abstracts
for the refereed track open for one more day. Last submission time is
now on Sunday 11 April at 23.59 CET.

- We have a limited number of beds available in very affordable
accomodation near the conference venue. Book early before it runs out.

- We are still receiving submissions for regular talks and tutorials.
Closing date is 15 April.

- There is now a wiki at the Europython website for sprint organising. 
Start planning!

About the conference
====================

EuroPython 2004 will be held 7-9 June in G?teborg, Sweden.

The EuroPython conference will have tracks for Science, Business,
Education, Applications, Frameworks, Zope and the Python language
itself. Lightning talks, Open Space and BOF sessions are also planned.
There will be tutorials as well, both for newcomers to Python and
Python users interested in special subjects. In the days before and
after the conference, programming sprints will be arranged.


Important dates
===============

Refereed paper proposals: until 11 April.
Submission of talks: 1 March - 15 April.
Early Bird registration: 9 April - 1 May.
Accomodation booking: 9 April - 1 May (or until space runs out)

More information at http://www.europython.org.

-- 



From michele.simionato at poste.it  Sat Apr  3 01:35:48 2004
From: michele.simionato at poste.it (Michele Simionato)
Date: 2 Apr 2004 22:35:48 -0800
Subject: Prothon, metaclasses, Zope [Was: A 'Python like' language]
References: <95aa1afa.0403272243.78d60724@posting.google.com>
	<95aa1afa.0404010017.2f1683b8@posting.google.com>
	<c4h6jh$n9f$1@panix1.panix.com>
	<95aa1afa.0404011933.5cc5e959@posting.google.com>
	<c4j08n$62h$1@panix2.panix.com>
Message-ID: <95aa1afa.0404022235.3962343@posting.google.com>

aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz) wrote in message news:<c4j08n$62h$1 at panix2.panix.com>...
> In article <95aa1afa.0404011933.5cc5e959 at posting.google.com>,
> Michele Simionato <michele.simionato at poste.it> wrote:
> >My address michele.simionato at poste.it is mostly
> >a span recipient I don't check often. Rea addresses I check every day are 
> >michelesimionato at libero.it and michele.simionato at partecs.com
> 
> Then please make those addresses readily available by sticking them in
> your .sig or something.  Having a non-replyable address is about as rude
> as top-posting.  ;-)


BTW, I tried to send you a message and got this:

- These recipients of your message have been processed by the mail
server:
aahz at pythoncraft.com; Failed; 5.1.1 (bad destination mailbox address)

Remote MTA iris2.directnic.com: SMTP diagnostic: 550 5.7.1 Mail from
smtp1.libero.it (193.70.192.51) refused (blackholed by
bl.spamcop.net); Blocked - see
http://www.spamcop.net/bl.shtml?193.70.192.51

So it looks like spam is taking control of our lifes and making both
of us to appear rude :-/


 Michele Simionato


From patrick at harsdorf.de  Sun Apr 25 12:25:08 2004
From: patrick at harsdorf.de (Patrick von Harsdorf)
Date: Sun, 25 Apr 2004 18:25:08 +0200
Subject: iterating over collection, deleting entries
Message-ID: <c6gop3$5p7$03$1@news.t-online.com>

I want to iterate over a collection and delete all unwanted entries.

for item in collection:
    del item

of course doesn?t do anything useful. Two things come to mind:
a) iterating backwards over the collection using indexing, something like:

for i in range(len(collection)-1, -1, -1):
    item = collection[i]
    if isBad(item) del collection[i]

b) duplicating the collection, iterating over one and deleting from the
other.

Both solutions seem both ugly and expensive to me, solution a)
probably isn?t even O(x) anymore.

Please tell me, what?s the best way to do this?


-- 
Patrick von Harsdorf
patrick at harsdorf.de






From claird at lairds.com  Sun Apr  4 13:15:39 2004
From: claird at lairds.com (Cameron Laird)
Date: Sun, 04 Apr 2004 17:15:39 -0000
Subject: emergent/swarm/evolutionary systems etc
References: <c4aeq8$92a$1@hercules.btinternet.com>
	<c4btjr$8il$1@titan.btinternet.com>
	<106um6hcr363u14@corp.supernews.com>
	<c4pbri$afg$1@hercules.btinternet.com>
Message-ID: <1070glr62jl65bd@corp.supernews.com>

In article <c4pbri$afg$1 at hercules.btinternet.com>,
Peter MacKenzie <peter9547 at btinternet.com> wrote:
			.
			.
			.
>LISP brought it to mind.  Although LISP doesn't look that much better than
>Python code, are there any programs out there that let you program, um,
>programs, using various shapes, colours etc?  Just thinking about it brings
			.
			.
			.
We often call that "visual programming", and it comes in 
several strengths
  http://www.cs.berkeley.edu/~maratb/cs263/paper/node2.html
  http://foldoc.doc.ic.ac.uk/foldoc/foldoc.cgi?query=visual+programming&action=Search
  news:comp.lang.visual
-- 

Cameron Laird <claird at phaseit.net>
Business:  http://www.Phaseit.net


From JasonHarper at pobox.com  Sun Apr 11 13:04:17 2004
From: JasonHarper at pobox.com (Jason Harper)
Date: Sun, 11 Apr 2004 10:04:17 -0700
Subject: Tkinter Button image option
References: <8d3ec.74988$Ig.46341@pd7tw2no>
Message-ID: <40797A08.A8781BEA@pobox.com>

Are you saving a reference to the image you loaded somewhere (perhaps as
an attribute of the button, if that's the only user of the image)? 
Merely using an image in a Tkinter widget is NOT sufficient to keep it
from being garbage collected.

PIL is not required for basic use of images in Tkinter, although it does
give you lots more options for working with them.
	Jason Harper


From mark at prothon.org  Fri Apr 23 15:08:11 2004
From: mark at prothon.org (Mark Hahn)
Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2004 12:08:11 -0700
Subject: Why we will use obj$func() often
References: <d2Uhc.22272$dZ1.1600@fed1read04>
	<84Uhc.22278$dZ1.5087@fed1read04><mailman.927.1082665370.20120.python-list@python.org><8AWhc.23114$dZ1.11070@fed1read04>
	<40883BFE.B381518A@alcyone.com><27_hc.23801$dZ1.2716@fed1read04>
	<40887145.789A2FE8@alcyone.com><WqWdnfW7RpSmhRTdRVn-uw@speakeasy.net><MMcic.28546$dZ1.18087@fed1read04>
	<mailman.973.1082745297.20120.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <wQdic.28868$dZ1.3972@fed1read04>


"Jack Diederich" <jack at performancedrivers.com> wrote in message

> Oh please, don't conflate irrational prejudice (racism) with rational
> prejudice (it looks perl-ish, and I don't like the way perl looks,
therefore
> I don't like the way Prothon looks).  Your accusation isn't up to the
level
> of that fellow spewing Totalitarian rhetoric about the "mental sickness"
of
> people who wrote/use python, but it isn't far off.

I apologize to anyone that I offended by thinking that I related the
problems of racism to language discussion.  I realize now that the analogy
was poorly chosen, even if based on something.  I just meant that people
"pre-judge" Prothon based on it's looks.




From mcherm at mcherm.com  Wed Apr  7 15:32:36 2004
From: mcherm at mcherm.com (Michael Chermside)
Date: Wed,  7 Apr 2004 12:32:36 -0700
Subject: [Python-Dev] More imformative iterator representations
Message-ID: <1081366356.4074575475316@mcherm.com>

Raymond writes:
> So, I posted an idea about changing the print part of the
> read-eval-print loop to display more information:
> 
> >>> enumerate('abcdefgh') 
> <enumerate object at 0x401a102c:  (0, 'a') (1, 'b') (2, 'c') ...>
> 
> There a couple of problems with the approach.  One is how to identify an
> iterator object -- the presence of __iter__() and next() is a good but
> not perfect indicator.
> 
> The other issue was trying to leave the iterator undisturbed while
> fetching the first three entries.

The issue of leaving the iterator undisturbed is more significant
than you think. It is an important feature of the iterator contract
that iterators are NOT asked to produce their values until the
iterator is actually USED. People take advantage of this by using
iterators when producing output that requires lots of resources
(like CPU).

For example, I sometimes write simple code which runs through very
large directories of logfiles and analyses the contents. Sometimes
it takes noticable time (1-5 min) per directory processed. So I
write an iterator which does one directory per invocation. I would
hate to have it take 3-15 minutes to skip ahead (and waste gobs
of memory keeping _3_ results in memory when it's never necessary
to keep more than 1 at once) just in order to pretty-print the
iterator. And yes, I do this in interactive mode.

I guess I wouldn't mind if certain built-in iterators did this...
list iterators, for instance, are easy. But I would object to any
scheme which tried to impose it on user-defined iterators. If the
user wants a nicely-printed iterator, they can override __repr__!

-- Michael Chermside






From lorenb2 at bezeqint.net  Wed Apr 14 05:08:42 2004
From: lorenb2 at bezeqint.net (Bob Lub)
Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2004 11:08:42 +0200
Subject: httplib.py problem
Message-ID: <00dc01c42200$15290250$0a01a8c0@bobbia>

hello all,

while sending POST request using httplib.httpConnection class,
 i've noticed that the library sends my request in TWO packets,
 one for the http headers and the second for the post data
(which is only 25 bytes long).

direct consequence is slower connections and wasted bandwidth
(it makes the http server to send an HTTP 100 continue message, too).

how can i enforce the library to send everything in one packet ?

thanks
B
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From halloleo at noospaam.myrealbox.com  Thu Apr  8 03:23:02 2004
From: halloleo at noospaam.myrealbox.com (leo)
Date: Thu, 8 Apr 2004 17:23:02 +1000
Subject: unc paths in os.path.walk on win2000?
Message-ID: <c52ulo$1heb$1@otis.netspace.net.au>

how can i use unc paths in os.path.walk on win2000?

i tried the \\server\path representation in python 2.3 and it didn't work...

thanks, leo




From ciol__opuscic__ at o2.pl.bez.tego  Tue Apr 27 04:46:47 2004
From: ciol__opuscic__ at o2.pl.bez.tego (Tut)
Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2004 10:46:47 +0200
Subject: 404 errors
References: <408dcc25$0$16577$5a62ac22@freenews.iinet.net.au>
Message-ID: <pan.2004.04.27.08.46.46.977704@o2.pl.bez.tego>

Tue, 27 Apr 2004 11:00:57 +0800, Derek Fountain wrote:

> Some servers respond with a nicely formatted bit of HTML explaining the
> problem, which is fine for a human, but not for a script. Is there some
> flag or something definitive on the response which says "this is a 404
> error"?

Maybe catch the urllib2.HTTPError?



From deetsNOSPAM at web.de  Thu Apr 29 09:04:21 2004
From: deetsNOSPAM at web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Thu, 29 Apr 2004 15:04:21 +0200
Subject: suggestions for using tuples instead of list (or vice versa)
References: <ylxi7lokk9ms$.dlg@thorstenkampe.de>
Message-ID: <c6qv1o$fbu8a$2@ID-111250.news.uni-berlin.de>

> Is there any advantage for using tuples? Are they "faster"? Consume
> less memory? When is it better to use tuples instead of lists and when
> better to use lists instead of tuples?

AFAIK tuples are faster and less memory consuming. I personally prefer them
for e.g. returning multiple values from a function or when I know I won't
need the power of a list. But its largely considered a matter of taste.
Google this newsgroup for a plethora of discussions on this subject....

-- 
Regards,

Diez B. Roggisch


From kkto at csis.hku.hk  Fri Apr 30 04:32:00 2004
From: kkto at csis.hku.hk (Isaac To)
Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2004 16:32:00 +0800
Subject: operator double() surprise in cxx
References: <mailman.145.1083293891.25742.python-list@python.org>
	<pan.2004.04.30.05.54.47.953852@ifrance.com>
Message-ID: <7ivfjh988v.fsf@enark.csis.hku.hk>

>>>>> "Beno?t" == Beno?t Dejean <bnetNOSPAM at ifrance.com> writes:

    Beno?t> Le Thu, 29 Apr 2004 21:35:51 -0500, John Hunter a ?crit?:
    >>  I am using pycxx 5.2.2 to generate some extension code.  I want to
    >> extract some doubles from some python sequences
    >> 
    >> When I do
    >> 
    >> double l( Py::Float(rect[0]) ); double b( Py::Float(rect[1]) );

    Beno?t> everything that looks/tastes/sounds like a function declaration
    Beno?t> is (even with parameters.

Is it really a bug in g++?  No matter how I look at

  Py::Float(rect[0])

it does not look like a type "Py::Float*" that is indicated by the error
message.  Perhaps it looks like a (Py::Float (*) (rect*)) if g++ think that
rect is a type instead of a variable, but does it really know some type
called rect, and if not, why no error about unknown type on the "function
declaration"?

Regards,
Isaac.


From tkpmep at hotmail.com  Fri Apr 16 12:53:24 2004
From: tkpmep at hotmail.com (Thomas Philips)
Date: 16 Apr 2004 09:53:24 -0700
Subject: Passing a parameter to filter
Message-ID: <b4a8ffb6.0404160853.58c4ec6@posting.google.com>

To experiment with filtering, I define a function f(x,k) as follows
>>> def f(x,k=2):
	return x%k==0

I can check that it works by typing
>>> f(10,3)
False

Now, I try to filter a range using
>>> filter(f(k=3),range(20))

Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<pyshell#16>", line 1, in -toplevel-
    filter(f(k=3),range(20))
TypeError: f() takes at least 1 non-keyword argument (0 given)

I next try
>>> filter(f(3),range(20))

Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<pyshell#17>", line 1, in -toplevel-
    filter(f(3),range(20))
TypeError: 'bool' object is not callable

But, as k defaults to 2, I get exactly what I expect from
>>> filter(f,range(20))
[0, 2, 4, 6, 8, 10, 12, 14, 16, 18]
>>> 

What's wrong with my syntax when passing the parameter k=3?

Sincerely

Thomas Philips


From jack at performancedrivers.com  Mon Apr 19 14:06:22 2004
From: jack at performancedrivers.com (Jack Diederich)
Date: Mon, 19 Apr 2004 14:06:22 -0400
Subject: module not callable - why not?
In-Reply-To: <8ef9bea6.0404190902.78d2a95d@posting.google.com>
References: <mailman.750.1082328613.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<8ef9bea6.0404190902.78d2a95d@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <20040419180622.GC23507@performancedrivers.com>

On Mon, Apr 19, 2004 at 10:02:51AM -0700, Hung Jung Lu wrote:
> "Robert Brewer" <fumanchu at amor.org> wrote in message news:<mailman.750.1082328613.20120.python-list at python.org>...
> > Josiah Carlson wrote:
> > > Singletons aren't nearly as prevalent as you seem to believe.  
> > > ... Truth be told, I've used singletons before, but only once.
> > 
> > I thought I had twice,
> > But now I can see there was
> > Only one instance.
> 
> Ha. As I have said, "singleton pattern" is symptom of a disease. But
> the concept of "singleton" itself, that is, a unique instance of a
> class, is ubiquitous. Just about any decent-size program that you
> write will have lots of singletons: classes that have one single
> instance. Therefore, you have used singletons tons of times. You just
> have not followed recipes for "singleton pattern", which is good,
> because it is symptom of a disease.

Yes, as you've said many times.  It may be language barrier but your
posts about everyone else being completely wrong and dumb aren't
winning you any converts.  I'm glad you like prototype based languages,
and have fun working on Prothon.  Until it becomes more than vaporware
(eg, finished compiler and used successfully in a project) it can't
be more than a better idea.  Since I need to actually get some work
done I'll stick with python.

-jackdied



From missive at frontiernet.net  Wed Apr 21 16:42:37 2004
From: missive at frontiernet.net (Lee Harr)
Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2004 20:42:37 GMT
Subject: __metaclass__ = type (was: Re: if (__name__ == '__main__'):
	main(sys.argv[1:]))
References: <01c601c4271b$7f7300a0$b401010a@sparta>
	<4085A445.1050303@heneryd.com>
	<mailman.833.1082551131.20120.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <11Bhc.2149$hM2.1561@news02.roc.ny>

On 2004-04-21, Fran?ois Pinard <pinard at iro.umontreal.ca> wrote:
>
> __metaclass__ = type
>
> class Main:
>     def __init__(self):
>         pass
>

> A word about the `__metaclass__' line.  My intent is to forget all about
> classic classes and go with the new type system as quickly as possible.
> I do not want to derive each and every of my classes from `object',
> and later edit all those `(object)' out when the classic classes will
> effectively get deprecated.  Much easier and cleaner to remove that
> `__metaclass__' line then.  Moreover, by using this `__metaclass__' line
> in all my things, I do not risk obscure bugs because I forgot one of
> these `object' derivation while I used more recent Python features.
>


Very interesting.

Is there any reason to stick with old-style classes? Or would we all
be well-advised to use something like this?

I mostly just create classes the old way and never even think about
subclassing object.



From uwe.schmitt at procoders.net  Thu Apr 29 10:35:04 2004
From: uwe.schmitt at procoders.net (Uwe Schmitt)
Date: 29 Apr 2004 14:35:04 GMT
Subject: python 2.3's lambda behaves old fashioned
Message-ID: <c6r3qo$1574k$1@hades.rz.uni-saarland.de>


Hi,

I just tried (Python 2.3)

    li = [ lambda x: x*a for a in range(10) ]

which results in 

    li[0](1) = 9
    ...
    li[9](1) = 9

In order to achieve the intended result I had to fall back on the
following trick:

    li = [ lambda x,a=a: x*a for a in range(10)]

which leads to the expected result.

Any explanations ???

Greetings, Uwe.
 

-- 
Dr. rer. nat. Uwe Schmitt   http://www.procoders.net                      
schmitt at procoders.net      "A service to open source is a service to mankind."


From http  Sun Apr  4 22:03:44 2004
From: http (Paul Rubin)
Date: 04 Apr 2004 19:03:44 -0700
Subject: Session variables?
References: <4070bad0$1@clarion.carno.net.au>
Message-ID: <7xsmfjuqnz.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

Steve <nospam at nopes> writes:
> I'm trying to find a clean way of sharing variables across different
> python webpages and scripts and I need something like a session
> variable for each user. Is this possible in Python? I've been
> "pickling" stuff and this doesn't work at all with mutliple users as
> things get mixed up. Is there any clean way of doing this? Thanks,

One way is put all the variables into a browser cookie.  You have to
be careful about security when you do that though.  Don't use a pickle.


From peter at engcorp.com  Sat Apr 10 08:33:44 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Sat, 10 Apr 2004 08:33:44 -0400
Subject: python datetime repository
In-Reply-To: <mailman.503.1081584391.20120.python-list@python.org>
References: <E1BC3dd-0007hH-6u@mail.python.org>
	<mailman.503.1081584391.20120.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <NqadnecPjuQ0dOrdRVn-ug@powergate.ca>

Sakesun Roykiattisak wrote:

> 
> During the moment of learning and using  python + various API, I 've 
> come across many kinds of datetime classes.
> 
> python 2.3 datetime.datetime
> xmlrpclib.DateTime
> pywintypes.Time
> mxDateTime
> Zope's DateTime
> pyical's DateTime
> 
> Anybody know any other python datetime class out there ?  Just wonder if 
> there are more.
> 
> According to Bruce Eckel, "Python reduce clutter".  Perhaps datetime 
> clutter is badly need reduction.

The list above contains one platform-specific case which can't just be
made to disappear, and at least three types which predate the new
standard datetime module.  I don't know what pyical is but I suspect
it's the same sort of thing.

The best way to reduce the clutter is merely to start using the
new datetime module where you can, and gradually refactor old
code where possible to use it.

Basically, "give folks a break, the standard datetime is new!"

-Peter


From joe at notcharles.ca  Fri Apr 16 00:27:03 2004
From: joe at notcharles.ca (Joe Mason)
Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2004 04:27:03 GMT
Subject: CamelCase versus wide_names (Prothon)
References: <UHxfc.9323$dZ1.3740@fed1read04>
	<7xekqo36ia.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <slrnc7uo3o.ajs.joe@gate.notcharles.ca>

In article <7xekqo36ia.fsf at ruckus.brouhaha.com>, Paul Rubin wrote:
> "Mark Hahn" <mark at prothon.org> writes:
>> 1) CamelCase is more elegant, modern, more readable, and more efficient in
>> character usage.
> 
> IfCamelCaseWereReallyMoreReadable, We'dWriteOrdinaryEnglishLikeUsingIt.
> SoThatClaimIsRidiculousAndNeedsToBeThrownOutTheWindowPostHaste.
> 
>> 2) Wide_names is cleaner, more readable, compatible with C, which is the
>> standard module language for Python and Prothon.  Wide_names is also the
>> Python standard.
> 
> Sounds_ok_with_me.  I_find_it_a_heck_of_a_lot_more_readable_than_camel_case.
> I_vote_for_wide_names.

If you actually write code with names that long, you deserver to be
forced to read them in camelCase.

Joe


From LNOBALA/DROGA at droga.si  Tue Apr 27 10:11:44 2004
From: LNOBALA/DROGA at droga.si (LNOBALA)
Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2004 16:11:44 +0200
Subject: NAV detected a virus in a document you authored.
Message-ID: <OF08923B6A.D361BA24-ONC1256E83.004DFAA3@droga.si>

Please contact your system administrator.


The infected component in the scanned document was deleted.


Virus Information:
The attachment mail2424.pif contained the virus W32.Netsky.Q at mm and was
deleted.






From Scott.Daniels at Acm.Org  Sun Apr 11 12:06:02 2004
From: Scott.Daniels at Acm.Org (Scott David Daniels)
Date: Sun, 11 Apr 2004 09:06:02 -0700
Subject: Simple Class Question - need clarity please
In-Reply-To: <mailman.495.1081554977.20120.python-list@python.org>
References: <EYFdc.51749$Id.27192@news-binary.blueyonder.co.uk>
	<mailman.495.1081554977.20120.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <4079739a$1@nntp0.pdx.net>

Shalabh Chaturvedi (and before him Alan Gauld) gave lots of good advice
to Stevie_mac, including:
...
>>I'm also struggling with other things like...
>>Where do I save .py files?
>>Will 'import' find my files where ever they are? (obviously not but...)
> 
> Look for PYTHONPATH and sys.path in the documentation. Hmm, now I urge you
> to go through the entire tutorial - it doesn't take long!

Another technique to consider:

     I drop a file in my .../Python23/Lib/site-packages  directory.
It contains a line with an unquoted directory name to add to the path.
My  file is named 'projects.pth', but use any name you like as long as
it ends with '.pth' -- the name is unimportant.
You don't want it to conflict with names you are likely to get from
outside parties (third-party packages like PIL often use this
technique).  I should probably call it 'ScottsWorkingTopics.pth' by
that logic.

There is no restriction to naming a single directory, but each should
be on its own line.  If I ember correctly, starting a line with a
hash mark (#) should make it a comment, but check your python docs to
be sure.

In my case, again, the line is:    C:\Projects\Current\Python
I've never tried using windows magic like:
%USERPROFILE%\DeskTop\Py
for the path names; you could try it and report on the results.

>>What basic should be considerations when deriving classes?
I also usually try to derive from object (for "new-style" classes.
I don't even particularly need their features; I am simply getting
used to the way all classes will eventually work.

-- 
-Scott David Daniels
Scott.Daniels at Acm.Org


From See_my at Signature.com.invalid  Sun Apr 18 18:36:14 2004
From: See_my at Signature.com.invalid (Tuxtrax)
Date: Sun, 18 Apr 2004 22:36:14 GMT
Subject: help with str()
References: <See_my-763698.04154818042004@news.verizon.net>
	<40826776$0$136$3a628fcd@reader1.nntp.hccnet.nl>
Message-ID: <See_my-ED6762.15362318042004@news.verizon.net>

In article <40826776$0$136$3a628fcd at reader1.nntp.hccnet.nl>,
 anton at vredegoor.doge.nl (Anton Vredegoor) wrote:

<snip>

> Maybe this rings a bell:
> 
>  Python 2.3.2 (#1, Oct  9 2003, 12:03:29) 
>  [GCC 3.3.1 (cygming special)] on cygwin
>  Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more
> information.
>  >>> str(5)
>  '5'
>  >>> str = "don't do this"
>  >>> str(5)
>  Traceback (most recent call last):
>    File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
>  TypeError: 'str' object is not callable
>  >>> 
> 
> Anton

Thanks Anton. That was exactly it. I had a variable ealier in the 
program called str. Changed that variable name to another, and the str() 
function worked fine. DOH!

I knew it was something simple. Most of my fopahs are.

again, thanks,

Mathew

-- 
ROT 13 this address to mail me:

bar jbeq abg guerr; uvtu qrfreg zna, gura nqq - ng lnubb qbg pbz.


From mark at prothon.org  Thu Apr 15 11:17:08 2004
From: mark at prothon.org (Mark Hahn)
Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2004 08:17:08 -0700
Subject: CamelCase versus wide_names (Prothon)
Message-ID: <UHxfc.9323$dZ1.3740@fed1read04>

We have agreed in Prothon that unlike Python we are going to be 100%
consistant in our var and method naming.  We will not have run-together
words like iteritems, we are going to always have seperated words like
has_key.

Now we are in the midst of a discussion of camelCase versus wide_names.  So
far our arguments are:

1) CamelCase is more elegant, modern, more readable, and more efficient in
character usage.

2) Wide_names is cleaner, more readable, compatible with C, which is the
standard module language for Python and Prothon.  Wide_names is also the
Python standard.

Of course in the Python world you alread have wide_names as your standard,
but could you for the moment pretend you were picking your standard from
scratch (as we are doing in the Prothon world) and give your vote for which
you'd prefer?

Thanks in advance...




From lbates at swamisoft.com  Thu Apr 15 10:03:47 2004
From: lbates at swamisoft.com (Larry Bates)
Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2004 09:03:47 -0500
Subject: Fast Data Comparison (dict v. list. v string)
References: <c5k8rp$ql6$1@news01.intel.com>
Message-ID: <hIWdnXU6rJ7fC-PdRVn-iQ@comcast.com>

Scott,

You should take a close look at list comprehensions
and possibly sets (new in V2.3).  I'm not all that
familiar with sets, but your problem sounds like
they might come in handy.

Example list comprehension:

list1notinlist2=[x for x in list1 if x not in list2]
for item in list1notinlist:
    # Do some processing

Note: In Python if you find yourself using [i]
indexes into lists, there is "almost" always a
better way (at least that is my experience).

Larry Bates
Syscon, Inc.

"Scott Brady Drummonds" <scott.b.drummonds.nospam at intel.com> wrote in
message news:c5k8rp$ql6$1 at news01.intel.com...
> Hi, everyone,
>
> I'm a relative novice at Python and am working on some optimizations in my
> first Python project.  At its core, this tool I'm writing needs to perform
> many comparisons to fixed-size lists of fixed-length strings.
>
> Currently, my implementation uses dictionaries to store each string.  I
> maintain a separate "key-mapping" dictionary that maps keys from one
> dictionary to the other.  Then, all I have to do to compare the two
> dictionaries is as follows:
>   for metaKey in keyMap.keys():
>     if dict1[metaKey] != dict2[keyMap[metaKey]]:
>       #  Do some processing
>
> Since the sizes of the dictionaries never change, I tried implementing
this
> using lists.  The solution looks something like this (and assumes that a
> pre-processing phase has sorted the contents of each list so their indexes
> are the same):
>   for i in len(list1):
>     if list1[i] != list2[i]:
>       #  Do some processing
>
> As it turns out, this implementation appears to be about 33% faster than
the
> dictionary-based one.  Now, assuming that the datum being stored at each
> index can fit into one character, I could do a string-based implementation
> like this:
>   for i in len(string1):
>     if string1[i] != string[i]:
>       #  Do some processing
>
> This last solution actually runs about the same as the dictionary, which
> takes 50% longer than the list implementation.
>
> Now, my questions are:
> 1)  Does anyone have another suggestion as to how I can organize these
data
> so that I can compare many elements many times?
> 2)  Is there a string comparison operator that will return which indexes
> have different values?  Maybe it would be faster than the iterative
> comparison approach for the third implementation.
> 3)  Since my data are changing between the successive executions of the
code
> snippets above, I need a way of having the other parts of the program
update
> it.  But, it appears that strings are constant as I can't assign
individual
> characters with "string1[i] = '0'".  Is there any way around this?
>
> Thanks!
> Scott
>
> -- 
> Remove ".nospam" from the user ID in my e-mail to reply via e-mail.
>
>




From rob02omni at vodafone.it  Tue Apr 20 05:26:34 2004
From: rob02omni at vodafone.it (Roberto)
Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 11:26:34 +0200
Subject: Getting output from embedded python program
References: <2aa196bb.0404190554.74631058@posting.google.com>
	<4084B179.6020807@magma-da.com>
Message-ID: <c62q6k$bav$1@balena.cs.interbusiness.it>

Hi there,

> http://elmer.sourceforge.net/PyCon04/elmer_pycon04.html ) ...obviously,
> if you evaluate a print statement, you will still get output on stdout

This tutorial is quite good!

The same thing can be done even with the py_runfile ??
I'm triyng to do such things with no result!

Bye,
Roberto


"Rick L. Ratzel" <rick.ratzel at magma-da.com> ha scritto nel messaggio
news:4084B179.6020807 at magma-da.com...
> Kim wrote:
> > Hi everyone,
> > I'm writing a embeded python program, and I want to evaluate some
> > expression by calling function:
> >
> > PyRun_SimpleString("print 'hello'")
> >
> > I don't want to output it to stdout but putting it into string somehow
> > sothat I can process it.
> >
>
>     Here is a way to get the result of a Python expression eval from C
> (derived from example at
> http://elmer.sourceforge.net/PyCon04/elmer_pycon04.html ) ...obviously,
> if you evaluate a print statement, you will still get output on stdout
> though:
>
> ...
> PyObject* evalModule;
> PyObject* evalDict;
> PyObject* evalVal;
> char* retString;
>
> PyRun_SimpleString( "result = 'foo' + 'bar'" )
>
> evalModule = PyImport_AddModule( (char*)"__main__" );
> evalDict = PyModule_GetDict( evalModule );
> evalVal = PyDict_GetItemString( evalDict, "result" );
>
> if( evalVal == NULL ) {
>      PyErr_Print();
>      exit( 1 );
>
> } else {
>      /*
>       * PyString_AsString returns char* repr of PyObject, which should
>       * not be modified in any way...this should probably be copied for
>       * safety
>       */
>      retString = PyString_AsString( evalVal );
> }
> ...
>
>     In this case, you need to know that the expression will evaluate to
> a string result in order to call PyString_AsString().  If you don't know
> this, you will have to check the type of the PyObject first.
>
>
>




From ekkilu at yahoo.com  Fri Apr 30 00:08:21 2004
From: ekkilu at yahoo.com (Ekki)
Date: 29 Apr 2004 21:08:21 -0700
Subject: static keyword
References: <mailman.113.1083254129.25742.python-list@python.org>
	<f8097096.0404291403.400304ee@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <d855b360.0404292008.6cab5b8e@posting.google.com>

nicksjacobson at yahoo.com (Nick Jacobson) wrote in message news:<f8097096.0404291403.400304ee at posting.google.com>...
> The bad news: I just hope I don't forget and call foo() instead of
> g.next().
> I would rather the command foo() by default call the next iteration,
> and, say, foo().reset() would recall the function from scratch.  But
> that's neither here nor there..

C++ functors (analogous to Python callables) do what you want and a
lot more. I am sure your problem does not need to get to this level,
but here is some food for thought. Notice the absence of
if-statements.

class F:
    def __call__(self):
        print "First pass"
        self.i = [10, 11]               # initialization
        self.first_call = self.__call__ # metaprogramming fun
        self.__call__ = self.call       # metaprogramming fun
        self()
    def call(self):
        self.i[0] += 1
        print self.i[0]
    def reset(self):
        self.__call__ = self.first_call # metaprogramming fun
f = F()

f()
f()

f.reset()
f()
f()

The full power of functors/callables only shows up when you combine
them with inheritance.

regards,

Hung Jung


From eric at enthought.com  Fri Apr 23 02:13:32 2004
From: eric at enthought.com (eric)
Date: 22 Apr 2004 23:13:32 -0700
Subject: ANN: SciPy 0.3 Released
References: <mailman.880.1082583661.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<c688i2$8he7m$1@ID-226476.news.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <16f9b1ea.0404222213.f8b821d@posting.google.com>

Hey Enrique,

Chaco has moved to a new package.  We hope to have it released within
the next few weeks.

thanks,
eric

Enrique Castro <ecastro at dbbf.ulpgc.es> wrote in message news:<c688i2$8he7m$1 at ID-226476.news.uni-berlin.de>...
> Travis N. Vaught wrote:
> > SciPy 0.3 has been released and binaries are available from the 
> > scipy.org site.
> > 
> > http://www.scipy.org
> > 
> Hi,
> What's the status of Chaco, the plotting package?
> Is it now included in SciPy download?
> 
> I have tried to follow the chaco link in Enthought's site 
> (http://www.enthought.com/) but it seems not working
> 
> Tanks
> Enrique Castro


From roy at panix.com  Mon Apr 26 13:31:18 2004
From: roy at panix.com (Roy Smith)
Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2004 13:31:18 -0400
Subject: Is Perl *that* good? (was: How's ruby compare to it older
	brother python)
References: <c6ich0$c5mee$1@ID-205437.news.uni-berlin.de>
	<iL3jc.232$Yc.2330@news4.e.nsc.no>
	<108q51j4dscn7dc@corp.supernews.com>
	<knbjc.267$id.3998@news2.e.nsc.no>
	<108qhidjthjpdc0@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <roy-1A34EB.13311826042004@reader2.panix.com>

In article <108qhidjthjpdc0 at corp.supernews.com>,
 claird at lairds.com (Cameron Laird) wrote:

> In article <knbjc.267$id.3998 at news2.e.nsc.no>,
> Leif B. Kristensen <junkmail at solumslekt.org> wrote:
> 			.
> 			.
> 			.
> >which can be spelled in an amazing number of different ways. As I found
> >that the Soundex algorithm was useless for Norwegian spellings, I
> >invented my own. It's not really an algorithm, but a series of
> >substitutions that reduces names to a kind of primitives. Thus, eg.
> 			.
> 			.
> 			.
> "Canonicalization" is one name in academic English for this transformation.

But is it the cannonical name?


From peter9547 at btinternet.com  Sun Apr  4 12:07:14 2004
From: peter9547 at btinternet.com (Peter MacKenzie)
Date: Sun, 4 Apr 2004 16:07:14 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: emergent/swarm/evolutionary systems etc
References: <c4aeq8$92a$1@hercules.btinternet.com>
	<c4btjr$8il$1@titan.btinternet.com>
	<106um6hcr363u14@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <c4pbri$afg$1@hercules.btinternet.com>

>You might like "The Outsider's Guide to Artificial Intelligence"
><URL: http://robotwisdom.com/ai/index.html >.

Yes. It is interesting.  I've been playing with the idea of graphical
representations for programming 'phrases' for a while, and the reference to
LISP brought it to mind.  Although LISP doesn't look that much better than
Python code, are there any programs out there that let you program, um,
programs, using various shapes, colours etc?  Just thinking about it brings
up all manner of difficulties that would be encountered if you tried to
create such a thing, but it would be nice if there was some immediately
obvious graphical connection between pieces of code (so beginners like me
didn't keep trying to put the square code through the round code ;-) ).
Just a thought of the 'in the shower' variety.

I also liked the idea of the metagame project
(http://satirist.org/learn-game/projects/metagame.html), though I don't see
myself taking on a challenge of that magnitude in the reasonably foreseeable
future.







Cameron Laird <claird at lairds.com> wrote in message
news:106um6hcr363u14 at corp.supernews.com...
> In article <c4btjr$8il$1 at titan.btinternet.com>,
> Peter MacKenzie <peter9547 at btinternet.com> wrote:
> >(Hmm, this might appear as a double posting, but I don't think my last
one
> >made it through.)
> >
> >Thanks, but.
> >
> >("One approach to discussing and comparing AI
> >problem solving strategies is to categorize them using the
> >terms ''strong'' and ''weak'' methods. Generally, a weak
> .
> [much more]
> .
> .
> You might like "The Outsider's Guide to Artificial Intelligence"
> <URL: http://robotwisdom.com/ai/index.html >.
> --
>
> Cameron Laird <claird at phaseit.net>
> Business:  http://www.Phaseit.net




From kfast at poczta.onet.pl  Wed Apr 14 16:39:14 2004
From: kfast at poczta.onet.pl (Jakub Fast)
Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2004 22:39:14 +0200
Subject: Pygame
In-Reply-To: <c5jt79$8m6$1@orkan.itea.ntnu.no>
References: <c5jdv2$s4$1@orkan.itea.ntnu.no>	<xZydnfgqeaiK3ODdRVn-tw@powergate.ca>	<c5jgvh$2m5$1@orkan.itea.ntnu.no>	<mailman.620.1081958099.20120.python-list@python.org>	<gandreas-33F0F9.12165314042004@news.mpls.visi.com>
	<c5jt79$8m6$1@orkan.itea.ntnu.no>
Message-ID: <407DA172.1020102@poczta.onet.pl>


> Well, if it's not due to the licensing [...]

The fact that it has been used in commercial projects doesn't imply it 
really is _commercial-friendly_ -- lgpl does impose obligations that, 
albeit minor, still are a hassle and require some thought if you're 
going to use it in your closed-source project. moreover, including it in 
the python distribution would impose the burden of keeping track of 
different licenses in your standard modules, which definitely is 
something you wouldn't want to have ("ok, i used module this and module 
that, so i'm fine to do this with my program, ... but wait module x uses 
module y that uses module z which requires me to obey license a... doh).

well, at least _i_ hate sifting through a library for a single module 
that i use that happens to have a more restrictive license...

kuba



From jbperez808 at wahoo.com  Wed Apr 28 05:30:38 2004
From: jbperez808 at wahoo.com (Jon Perez)
Date: 28 Apr 2004 09:30:38 GMT
Subject: CPU usage of Python interpreter doing empty while loop under XP
References: <c6kogu$cvgah$1@ID-180326.news.uni-berlin.de>
	<7kpr805ou6g8ucm9rok4nodkolcp02viig@4ax.com>
	<c6l61u$d0o8n$1@ID-180326.news.uni-berlin.de>
	<sZSdne1DBrSe2BPdRVn-sQ@powergate.ca>
	<c6m2e8$dhqd7$1@ID-180326.news.uni-berlin.de>
	<8cidnWQfWLreOBPd4p2dnA@powergate.ca>
Message-ID: <c6ntjq$ecnal$1@ID-180326.news.uni-berlin.de>

Peter Hansen wrote:

> Good, then what you are really looking for is to get away from the
> print statement and learn to use "import pdb; pdb.set_trace()".
> 
> This will drop you into a convenient interpreter prompt right in
> the frame where it executes (well, one level down, so just type "r"
> to return from the set_trace() call to the calling level).  From
> this prompt you can inspect any variable in your program, execute
> code by single-stepping, and so forth.
> 
> Very handy, and it completely obsoletes the "while 1: pass" idea. :-)
> 
> -Peter

Thanks for the tip, I'll keep it in mind for next time, although 
for this thing I'm doing, I might not be able to use pdb because
the event driven framework I'm doing (built on top of Fredrik
Lundh's console) has to do with a text user interface and I can't 
have things messing up the screen which is what would happen if I 
used the pdb technique.  

To illustrate how careful I have to be about preserving what's on
the screen, I have a debugmsg() function which saves the current 
cursor position, prints out variable values (or whatever I like)
to a small unused corner of the screen, then restores the cursor 
position.  Because it's an event driven framework, program flow
is hard to predict, so there are situations where I need the 
program to effectively 'hang' at certain portions (a kind of breakpoint 
if you will) so I can see the debug message as well as the current 
state of the screen without it being overwritten immediately by 
either pdb output or succeeding code that does a screen clear or 
refresh.

I would be able to use pdb if Console allowed you to separate 
the screen buffer for the program output with that of the command 
line from which you invoked said program (where the error messages
and pdb output should go to), but there doesn't seem to be a way 
to do that.


From steve at ninereeds.fsnet.co.uk  Tue Apr  6 12:10:25 2004
From: steve at ninereeds.fsnet.co.uk (Stephen Horne)
Date: Tue, 06 Apr 2004 17:10:25 +0100
Subject: Python is faster than C
References: <406F0907.96F37EA1@tunes.org> <7xy8pcogaa.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<406F454B.C4CC8063@tunes.org> <7xekr4vdek.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<406F5E95.EBE6D3E8@tunes.org> <7x65cgqy5s.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <smk570t0pqm0eoikhe0r7p6893nsgif7k7@4ax.com>

On 03 Apr 2004 18:23:11 -0800, Paul Rubin
<http://phr.cx at NOSPAM.invalid> wrote:

>Armin Rigo <arigo at tunes.org> writes:
>> Ideally: If you do  x=range(100); x[50]='hi'  then the interpreter first
>> builds this optimized range representation and assigns it to x; and when
>> in the next statement you modify this list x it says 'oops! i cannot do
>> that with this representation', so it reverts to an array-like
>> representation (i.e. it creates all 100 elements) and then changes the
>> 50th.  No gain here.  If on the other hand you only ever do 'easy'
>> things with your list, like iterate over it or read elements, then it
>> can all be done with the range representation, without falling back to
>> the array representation.
>
>Maybe there is something to this.  

The problem is, once you start where do you stop.

At the moment, Armin suggests optimising the a list consisting of a
single repeating item. But what about optimising a repeating list with
one or two special cases, so that the "x[50]='hi'" above doesn't incur
a penalty?

Consider integer lists - what about optimising arithetic progressions?
Geometric progressions? Progressions with special cases? Progressions
that are the intersection, or union, or whatever of other
progressions?

If the internal implementation doesn't special-case the implementation
of operations on these, all you have is lazy evaluation. But if the
internal implementation adds special-case implementations of
operations, you either end up with an huge number of special case
implementation methods (other parameters can end up with special-case
implementations, not just 'self') or you have to implement what
amounts to a full algebraic solving engine in the Python interpreter.

Or else you can just choose to special case the really important types
and operations, which I believe Python already does to some degree (an
integer is a special case of a long integer, for instance, and an
iterator is a special case of a list with only a subset of the
operations available to a standard list) and provide the programmer
with the tools to easily implement any further special cases that he
may need.


-- 
Steve Horne

steve at ninereeds dot fsnet dot co dot uk


From deetsNOSPAM at web.de  Wed Apr  7 11:34:27 2004
From: deetsNOSPAM at web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Wed, 07 Apr 2004 17:34:27 +0200
Subject: pam on debian
Message-ID: <c517c4$2njjtb$1@ID-111250.news.uni-berlin.de>

Hi,

I want to authenticate users against the shadow mechanism. So I installed
the python2.3-pam package and tried to run the example. It works in terms
of beeing sucessully executed. But I don't get authenticated. The service
name is set to "passwd". I have to admit that I'm no PAM expert, I've only
a rough understanding of what happens there. 

Fiddling around with the service name didn't do anything. Not even turn up
an error.

Any help on this would be appreciated.
-- 
Regards,

Diez B. Roggisch


From devnull at example.com  Wed Apr 21 00:06:02 2004
From: devnull at example.com (Derek Fountain)
Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2004 12:06:02 +0800
Subject: When is a __dict__ not a __dict__?
Message-ID: <4085f2a4$0$16601$5a62ac22@freenews.iinet.net.au>

Am I correct in thinking that a Python object which comes from a bit of C
code doesn't have a __dict__ attribute? I'm trying to poke around inside
the objects which control the expat XML parser, but they don't seem to have
__dict__s.


From sjf at autograf.pl  Tue Apr 27 09:17:50 2004
From: sjf at autograf.pl (..:: sjf ::..)
Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2004 15:17:50 +0200
Subject: Regular Expressions
References: <c6j0ht$ed0$1@atlantis.news.tpi.pl>
	<c6j3sc$br0hn$1@ID-111250.news.uni-berlin.de>
	<c6lhh8$dsi$1@nemesis.news.tpi.pl>
	<c6ljdv$db9kl$1@ID-111250.news.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <c6lmml$2ne$1@nemesis.news.tpi.pl>

pewnego dnia niejaki Diez B. Roggisch deetsNOSPAM at web.de wstuka? by? ;-)
> ..:: sjf ::.. wrote:
>> Thanks. And now, let's assume that I have a following strings:
>> S1 = "B - TYPE2: any_text_2 TYPE3: any_text_23"
>> S2 = "C - TYPE2: any_text_3"
>> and I want to have one regular expression that produce only following
>> data: ("B", "any_text_2")
>> ("C", "any_text_3")
>> that is, any characters starting TYPE3 till end will be omitted.
>> How do make this?
> r"(.) TYPE. : ([^ ]*)"

it works as long as any_text_2 and any_text_3 _not_ contains spaces, but in
my files these contain spaces and then this regexp cuts any_text_2 (and
any_text_3) after first space :((


-- 
.:: sjf ::..
"Linux is like Wigwam. No gates, no windows... Apache inside ;-)"


From tdelaney at avaya.com  Wed Apr 28 23:57:16 2004
From: tdelaney at avaya.com (Delaney, Timothy C (Timothy))
Date: Thu, 29 Apr 2004 13:57:16 +1000
Subject: Is classless worth consideration
Message-ID: <338366A6D2E2CA4C9DAEAE652E12A1DE016BCB64@au3010avexu1.global.avaya.com>

Michael wrote:

> Is there any way to to call a class method without making an instance
> of that class? To me that would be useful because you could mimic
> modules without having to create a sepperate file. Or is there
> already a way to do that?

You are explicitly allowed to put anything you want into sys.modules.
This was specifically permitted so people could add class *instances* as
modules (they were already doing it), but putting a class there would
work too. Of course, you'll want to add things like __file__ and
__name__ to your class.

Tim Delaney



From huzhenghui37 at tom.com  Wed Apr  7 03:44:07 2004
From: huzhenghui37 at tom.com (huzhenghui37)
Date: Wed, 07 Apr 2004 15:44:07 +0800
Subject: what relationship between this mail list and the python group on
 Google? 
Message-ID: <4073B147.1010604@tom.com>

what relationship between this mail list and the python group on Google?
i saw the same info on both




From alloydflanagan at comcast.net  Wed Apr 21 17:35:41 2004
From: alloydflanagan at comcast.net (A. Lloyd Flanagan)
Date: 21 Apr 2004 14:35:41 -0700
Subject: Python 2.3.3 super() behaviour
References: <40863bd7$0$25528$afc38c87@news.easynet.fr>
	<c65fbo$1q4$05$1@news.t-online.com>
	<40864674$0$24834$afc38c87@news.easynet.fr>
	<40864ea6$0$25528$afc38c87@news.easynet.fr>
Message-ID: <e838aa6e.0404211335.1048cfb0@posting.google.com>

"Nicolas Lehuen" <nicolas.lehuen at thecrmcompany.com> wrote in message news:<40864ea6$0$25528$afc38c87 at news.easynet.fr>...
> 
> In this case, T.__init__ is not called, because list.__init__ does not use
> super(). The only clean way to proceed is to change the inheritance order :
> TL(T,list). This way, both constructors are called.
> 

I'm surprised that a built-in type doesn't work with super().  Was
this a design decision, and if so why, or is this something that
should be fixed?


From piet at cs.uu.nl  Wed Apr  7 17:36:52 2004
From: piet at cs.uu.nl (Piet van Oostrum)
Date: 07 Apr 2004 23:36:52 +0200
Subject: String comparison problem
References: <mailman.414.1081339564.20120.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <wzekqzjwqz.fsf@ordesa.cs.uu.nl>

>>>>> "Senthoorkumaran Punniamoorthy" <solution88pro at hotmail.com> (SP) wrote:

SP> I am printing these information.
SP> 	print string.lower(info_res[2])
SP> 	print string.lower(md5sum(f_md5))
SP> 	print len(string.lower(info_res[2]))
SP> 	print len(string.lower(md5sum(f_md5)))
SP> 	print str(string.lower(md5sum(f_md5)) == string.lower(info_res[2]))

SP> and the output are

SP> 01b7ebfc27437a90cc421c50df8f9ac5
SP> 01b7ebfc27437a90cc421c50df8f9ac5
SP> 32
SP> 32
SP> False

SP> I was wondering why the last print statement is returning false when two
SP> strings are identical?

They are not identical, because md5sum is reading from the file.
-- 
Piet van Oostrum <piet at cs.uu.nl>
URL: http://www.cs.uu.nl/~piet [PGP]
Private email: P.van.Oostrum at hccnet.nl


From greg at cosc.canterbury.ac.nz  Fri Apr 16 00:21:43 2004
From: greg at cosc.canterbury.ac.nz (Greg Ewing)
Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2004 16:21:43 +1200
Subject: Wrapper round x86 Assembler
In-Reply-To: <8089854e.0404141105.37d09320@posting.google.com>
References: <8089854e.0404082353.7bf163a2@posting.google.com>
	<4dKdnQlIXMIXIevdRVn-gg@powergate.ca>
	<8089854e.0404100204.504186a0@posting.google.com>
	<kcWdnaFpw_PvdurdRVn-sA@powergate.ca>
	<8089854e.0404122329.5dfe5ce1@posting.google.com>
	<R9-dnUYH8r32f-bd4p2dnA@powergate.ca>
	<8089854e.0404132323.3283390@posting.google.com>
	<C72dnV4KRqbJreDdRVn-jA@powergate.ca>
	<8089854e.0404141105.37d09320@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <c5nn0n$312cv$1@ID-169208.news.uni-berlin.de>

Fuzzyman wrote:
> The only compielr I have is gcc under mingw - and I'm not at all sure
> it's set up right. Does pyrex still need a C-compiler or *is* pyrex a
> compiler ?

It needs a C compiler. MinGW should be fine
(once you get it set up properly, anyway:-).

-- 
Greg Ewing, Computer Science Dept,
University of Canterbury,	
Christchurch, New Zealand
http://www.cosc.canterbury.ac.nz/~greg



From elainejackson7355 at home.com  Tue Apr  6 01:23:59 2004
From: elainejackson7355 at home.com (Elaine Jackson)
Date: Tue, 06 Apr 2004 05:23:59 GMT
Subject: syntax question
References: <c10dc8.0404051323.4594717c@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <P9rcc.34331$oR5.24992@pd7tw3no>

>>> L=[(1,2),(10,20),(100,200)]
>>> map(None,*L)
[(1, 10, 100), (2, 20, 200)]
>>> sum(map(None,*L)[0])
111

"AF" <AnthonyF at Blarg.NET> wrote in message
news:c10dc8.0404051323.4594717c at posting.google.com...
| If I have a list of touples:
|
| l = [(x1, y1), (x2, y2), ...]
|
| Is there a 1 line way to extract and get the sum of each x and y
| column.  I can do it this way with 2 lines of code and iterating
| through the list twice:
|
| sumx = sum([x for x, y in l])
| sumy = sum([y for x, y in l])
|
| Is there a 1 liner way to get the sums of both x and y and only
| iterate thru the list once?
|
| Also, is there a way to extract a list of x's and a list of y's from
| the touple list?  1 line of course.
|
| Thanks!
|
| AF




From jepler at unpythonic.net  Wed Apr 21 18:35:03 2004
From: jepler at unpythonic.net (Jeff Epler)
Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2004 17:35:03 -0500
Subject: problem pickling objects created with the type function
In-Reply-To: <85bc2819.0404211357.6ec10ec7@posting.google.com>
References: <85bc2819.0404211357.6ec10ec7@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <20040421223503.GA13610@unpythonic.net>

Yep.

Pickle stores instances by pickling information about the instance, plus
a string it uses to find the class.

If you do something too clever, like you did above, it doesn't work.

Jeff



From unendliche at hanmail.net  Mon Apr  5 11:14:54 2004
From: unendliche at hanmail.net (Seo Sanghyeon)
Date: 5 Apr 2004 08:14:54 -0700
Subject: An attempt at guessing the encoding of a (non-unicode) string
References: <c1sq60t7af0lgs1ovilg6ds220dkc0inpd@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <45e6545c.0404050714.5db5ccc6@posting.google.com>

I think you will find Mozilla's charset autodetection method
interesting.

A composite approach to language/encoding detection
http://www.mozilla.org/projects/intl/UniversalCharsetDetection.html

Perhaps this can be used with PyXPCOM. I don't know.


From pythonguy at Hotpop.com  Tue Apr 13 07:51:56 2004
From: pythonguy at Hotpop.com (Anand Pillai)
Date: 13 Apr 2004 04:51:56 -0700
Subject: Making urllib2 work with proxy urls
Message-ID: <84fc4588.0404130351.77a1faf0@posting.google.com>

My company uses an automatic proxy configuration url of the form
http://server.company.com/department/proxy.pac .

I have made urllib2 work with normal proxies/firewalls, even the ones
requiring authentication, but I am stuck with this problem.

I tried getting the actual proxy server IP and configuring urllib2
with the normal way it works with proxies, but it has not worked
for me.

Any suggestions are welcome.

Thanks

-Anand


From niemeyer at conectiva.com  Thu Apr 29 17:04:02 2004
From: niemeyer at conectiva.com (Gustavo Niemeyer)
Date: Thu, 29 Apr 2004 18:04:02 -0300
Subject: Closures
Message-ID: <20040429210402.GA7316@burma.localdomain>

> Would you trade the "mutable integer" and "count(n=[0])" kludges for a
> solution like &count ?  Does anyone agree with me that a "closure
> variable prefix" is more explicit and readable?

import sys

class Closure:
    def __init__(self):
        self.__dict__ = sys._getframe().f_back.f_locals

def getFunc():
    counter = 0
    c = Closure()
    def count():
        c.counter += 1
        print c.counter
    return count

c = getFunc()
c()
c()
c()

-- 
Gustavo Niemeyer
http://niemeyer.net



From mwh at python.net  Fri Apr 23 12:02:54 2004
From: mwh at python.net (Michael Hudson)
Date: 23 Apr 2004 17:02:54 +0100
Subject: if (__name__ == '__main__'): main(sys.argv[1:])
In-Reply-To: <20040423155026.GB5587@alcyon.progiciels-bpi.ca>
References: <01c601c4271b$7f7300a0$b401010a@sparta>
	<4085A445.1050303@heneryd.com>
	<mailman.833.1082551131.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<m3hdvcpb9s.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk>
	<20040423155026.GB5587@alcyon.progiciels-bpi.ca>
Message-ID: <m3r7uen0lt.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk>

Fran?ois Pinard <pinard at iro.umontreal.ca> writes:

> [Michael Hudson]
> > Fran?ois Pinard <pinard at iro.umontreal.ca> writes:
> 
> > > A word about the `__metaclass__' line.  My intent is to forget all about
> > > classic classes and go with the new type system as quickly as possible.
> > > I do not want to derive each and every of my classes from `object',
> > > and later edit all those `(object)' out when the classic classes will
> > > effectively get deprecated.
> 
> > Why would you do that?
> 
> Your question is surprising, after you just quoted the answer.  I guess
> I miss the real meaning of your question.

In case I confused you, I meant the "edit the '(object)' out" bit.

> > I don't like using a __metaclass__ global because it's a non-local
> > effect.
> 
> That's exactly why it is useful.  You don't like it to be useful? :-)

I like my code to do things similar to what it looks like it's doing.

To me,

    class MyClass:
        ...

says "classic class".

Cheers,
mwh

-- 
 Two decades later, well-known hacker Henry Spencer described the 
 Perl scripting language as a "Swiss-Army chainsaw", intending to 
 convey his evaluation of the language as exceedingly powerful but 
 ugly and noisy and prone to belch noxious fumes.   -- the jargon file



From jepler at unpythonic.net  Thu Apr 22 13:57:41 2004
From: jepler at unpythonic.net (Jeff Epler)
Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2004 12:57:41 -0500
Subject: equivalent to Tcl 'after' command?
In-Reply-To: <huThc.54272$9V6.15414@newssvr25.news.prodigy.com>
References: <huThc.54272$9V6.15414@newssvr25.news.prodigy.com>
Message-ID: <20040422175741.GD17776@unpythonic.net>

Python doesn't define any event loop of its own.  asyncore has one, but
I don't think it has the concept of scheduling events at a future time,
but only of reacting to the readability / writability of sockets.

I'm sure that more advanced systems, like Twisted, can do the kind of
thing you're asking for.

Jeff



From kheymann-news03 at ecology.uni-kiel.de  Thu Apr 15 07:35:37 2004
From: kheymann-news03 at ecology.uni-kiel.de (Karsten Heymann)
Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2004 13:35:37 +0200
Subject: Python for Presentations
References: <b62b39cb.0404141022.2a5c61ec@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <2322284.zRWg8i6zR0@id-216798.user.uni-berlin.de>

Chris wrote:

> Is anyone aware of Python packages/software for generating
> "presentations"-- something that can generate a nice XHTML/CSS or PDF
> presentation would be cool. I am looking for a better alternative to
> PowerPoint for building presentation slides, and if that alternative
> used Python, that would be even better.
> 
> Otherwise I could use LaTeX or something, I suppose.

honestly, use latex! especially latex-beamer is awesome
(latex-beamer.sf.net) if you have at least a little knowledge of latex. I
use python for nearly all programming tasks, but presentations are another
are.

Karsten


From http  Tue Apr 20 15:14:03 2004
From: http (Paul Rubin)
Date: 20 Apr 2004 12:14:03 -0700
Subject: PDF library?
Message-ID: <7xad1631j8.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

I have a big PDF file that I'd like to crunch, i.e. I want to select a
certain rectangular area from each page and make a new PDF combining
the selected areas from adjacent pages.  I guess that means I need a
Python wrapper for GhostScript, or something similar.  Anyone know if
that exists?  Thanks.


From gnuoytr at rcn.com  Mon Apr 12 16:00:12 2004
From: gnuoytr at rcn.com (robert)
Date: 12 Apr 2004 13:00:12 -0700
Subject: why is python better than eg. smalltalk?? no one has any solid
	arguments! you should all go to church with all that religious talk!
References: <mailman.440.1081414295.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<c59lvb$mtm$1@nemesis.news.tpi.pl> <c5abbm$ko8$1@panix2.panix.com>
	<roy-5C8DA0.23052910042004@reader1.panix.com>
	<c5alj7$afu$1@panix2.panix.com>
Message-ID: <da3c2186.0404121200.119f22f7@posting.google.com>

aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz) wrote in message news:<c5alj7$afu$1 at panix2.panix.com>...
> In article <roy-5C8DA0.23052910042004 at reader1.panix.com>,
> Roy Smith  <roy at panix.com> wrote:
> >aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz) wrote:
> >>
> >> I found my editor fifteen years ago.  Guess which it is.
> >
> >My guess is emacs, in which case I've got 6 or 7 years on you :-)
> 
> Funny that two people made the same guess, when y'all could have gotten
> the correct answer by going to my personal web page.  ;-)
> 
> http://rule6.info/
> 
> >> (The point being that there are only two editors still in regular use 
> >> that were available fifteen years ago -- and those two editors are 
> >> still ubiquitous now.  Doesn't matter much which you pick, they'll 
> >> still be available fifteen years in the future.)
> >
> >I suspect you're right, but I don't necessarily think that's a good 
> >thing.  Both emacs and vi have had long runs, but it's logical to assume 
> >that better things will come along.
> 
> Not too bloody likely.  There just isn't any development work on new
> console editors these days, and many of us will give up our consoles
> when you pry them from our cold, dead fingers.
> 
> >I know it's possible to handle both news and email inside emacs, but I 
> >use dedicated GUI apps for both of those tasks.  I still use emacs for 
> >programming, but there's some really good IDE's out there, and my guess 
> >is they will become more and more the norm.  And while I curse and wail 
> >about how bad MS Word is, I also realize that troff just isn't happening 
> >any more (I did plenty of cursing and wailing about troff back in the 
> >"good old days").
> 
> You need to try reST.

since my fingers only know vi, i've been using Visual SlickEdit on windoze
for a long time, since it does vi.  for java and C it does all that
syntax stuff.  anyone found a super-vi that does the same for python?


From gandalf at geochemsource.com  Thu Apr 15 02:46:55 2004
From: gandalf at geochemsource.com (Gandalf)
Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2004 08:46:55 +0200
Subject: curses and unicode
Message-ID: <407E2FDF.7070708@geochemsource.com>


  Hi All!

I have to write an application that can display Chinese charaters in 
text mode under unix. I found several text mode console programs (like 
zhcon and big5d).
They are able to use English and Chinese characters at the same time, in 
text mode. (In fact, they are using graphics, but they emulate a 
standard terminal.)
Do somebody know how can I display chinese characters from curses (using 
one of these console programs)? I'm sure it can be done. For example,
midnight commander or lynx can do this:

http://zhcon.sourceforge.net/images/scr_mc.gif

But I do not know how to do this from Python. I only have the curses 
module and the addstr method. The addstr method does not support unicode.
Should I send a special character sequence with addstr? I'm totally 
lost. I tried to read the documentation of zhcon but it is in Chinese 
which I
do not understand. :-( Please help me.

   G







From jbore at tjtech.com  Tue Apr 13 14:42:29 2004
From: jbore at tjtech.com (Joseph T. Bore)
Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2004 18:42:29 GMT
Subject: interpreter limits
References: <m3zn9f95xm.fsf@union.tjtech.com>
	<407c23bf$0$570$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>
	<m3u0zn93sg.fsf@union.tjtech.com>
	<407c2ecc$0$574$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>
Message-ID: <m3ptab90hw.fsf@union.tjtech.com>


Irmen de Jong <irmen at -nospam-remove-this-xs4all.nl> writes:
> Or use alarm() to get signaled after some time, then kill it in
> the signal handler.

I hadnt thought about using alarm like that, I have to experiment

jb



From eugine_python at ukr.net  Fri Apr  2 05:22:15 2004
From: eugine_python at ukr.net (å×ÇÅÎÉÊ ëÏÓÅÎËÏ)
Date: Fri, 02 Apr 2004 13:22:15 +0300
Subject: Compact Python library for math statistics
Message-ID: <E1B9LoV-0005OQ-00@fatlady.ukr.net>

I'm looking for a Python library for math statistics. This must be a clear set of general statistics functions like 'average', 'variance', 'covariance' etc.

While googling I found only SalStat, which is rather stand-alone application with GUI on wxWidgets, and I need time and efforts to extract the core engine from it. Apart from this, it does not do some essential things for me, such as multi-component linear regression (y = a0 + a1 x1 + a2 x2 +...), only single-component (y = a0 + a1 x) is available.

Does anyone know something more simple-to-use? Something like

>> from stat import *
>> a = [1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6]
>> print ave(a), var(a), correl(a, a)
3.5 17.3 1.0

Thanks in advance

I started write something like for me for my own uses. Is it useful to publish it?
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From http  Fri Apr  2 03:02:21 2004
From: http (Paul Rubin)
Date: 02 Apr 2004 00:02:21 -0800
Subject: String concatenation
References: <wS8bc.4382$px6.64058@news2.e.nsc.no>
Message-ID: <7xisgi24fm.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

"Leif B. Kristensen" <junkmail at solumslekt.org> writes:
> Having recently started with Python, I've written this little function
> to retrieve place parts from a database and concatenate them to a
> string. While it certainly works, and is also considerably shorter than
> the PHP code that I originally wrote, I'm pretty convinced that there
> should be an even better way to do it. Can anybody show me how to write
> the string concatenation part in a more Pythonesque syntax?
> ...
>     for i in range(5):
>         tmp = res[i]        
>         if tmp[:1] != '-' and len(tmp) != 0:
>             place = place + ', ' + (res[i])
>     return place[2:]

Not tested:

  tmp = [x for x in res if x and x[0] != '-']
  return ', '.join(tmp)

Explanation: 

1) you can use "for x in res" instead of looping through range(5),
since you know that res has 5 elements (from the sql result).

2) x[:1] is the same as x[0] as long as x has at least 1 char (otherwise
   it throws an exception)

3) To prevent the exception, test for x being nonempty BEFORE examining x[0]

4) sep.join(stringlist) is the standard way to join a bunch of strings
   together, separated by sep.


From andreas.lobinger at netsurf.de  Tue Apr  6 05:14:57 2004
From: andreas.lobinger at netsurf.de (Andreas Lobinger)
Date: Tue, 06 Apr 2004 11:14:57 +0200
Subject: FDF to PDF in Python?
References: <ozkcc.25099$zh.23199@fed1read07>
Message-ID: <40727511.A687138C@netsurf.de>

Aloha,

Sean Berry schrieb:
> I am doing a project which will require me to take an FDF and convert it to
> a PDF after some information has been filled out.
> Is there anything in Python that can help me with this?
> I go the FDFToolkitforUnix from Adobe, but it is in Perl and I would much
> prefer Python.  Has anyone out there done anything like this before?

First of all, the FDFToolkit is (afair) a .so with Perl bindings, so
using SWIG (or similar tools) you could build adequate Python bindings...

The usual way to use .fdf is:
- Create a .pdf with form functionality and a means to submit data
- Open the file with a web-browser using the AcroReader as plugin
- Insert and Submit data to a web-server (the data can be submitted in
 html/fdf)
- Build another .pdf with the data

The FDFToolkit is only a parser (afair) for .fdf files/data. To insert
your data permanently (which means, you can save/copy/print the .pdf (with
the AcroReader)) you need a solution to access (read/modify/write) .pdf 
files. 

For all 4 above points there are thinkable python solutions. f.e. 
i have (very experimentally) handcrafted an example with a .pdf
using formfields and a (python) web-server that collects the data
and inserts it at the end of the .pdf, so that the submitted data
is logged in the file. If you're interested in this -> mail me.

For more information about working with .fdf and solutions
i would suggest to read comp.text.pdf .

Wishing a happy day
		LOBI


From davidf at sjsoft.com  Fri Apr 30 04:26:12 2004
From: davidf at sjsoft.com (David Fraser)
Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2004 10:26:12 +0200
Subject: Automated installation framework
In-Reply-To: <vgu3901i2q8nmqdhc6s9eph8bjl8cet159@4ax.com>
References: <vgu3901i2q8nmqdhc6s9eph8bjl8cet159@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <c6t27f$e69$1@ctb-nnrp2.saix.net>

Nikolai Kirsebom wrote:
> Does anyone know of an 'automated installation framework' written in
> Python / accessible from Python ?
> 
> Could it be an idea to use the unittest module as a framework for
> making such a system, using the 'setup-action' to make precondition
> testing, 'run' to do the actual installation and the 'teardown-action'
> to do verification.
> 
> Opinions are appreciated.
> 
> 
> In our case, the target system is (multi-machine) Windows.
> 
> 
> Nikolai
> 
It sounds like you are looking for the distutils included in Python.
Though they could use some enhancement :-)

David


From eddie at holyrood.ed.ac.uk  Mon Apr 26 09:22:04 2004
From: eddie at holyrood.ed.ac.uk (Eddie Corns)
Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2004 13:22:04 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: A python telnet entry level question
References: <mailman.893.1082600095.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<c685ob$da5$1@scotsman.ed.ac.uk>
	<108lr8jmr2u1202@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <c6j2ds$8jc$1@scotsman.ed.ac.uk>

claird at lairds.com (Cameron Laird) writes:

>In article <c685ob$da5$1 at scotsman.ed.ac.uk>,
>Eddie Corns <eddie at holyrood.ed.ac.uk> wrote:
>			.
>			.
>			.
>>You are maybe being too specific in what you match for.  At least one of my
>>machines prompts:
>>
>>  Pasword for <username>:
>>
>>rather than just "Password: ".  I tend to match things like
>>
>>"ogin"  (in case of Login vs login)
>>"assword" (will this get filtered out by censoring s/w?)
>>
>>Eddie

>This sort of tolerance can lead to its own problems (though
>I entirely agree you're right to recommend it).  Some logins
>are so sensitive to timing (in essence) that matching
>"assword" rather than "assword:" results in the telnetd 
>ignoring the first character or two of response.

>So what to do?  At this level, there is *no* good answer.
>The most enlightened thought is simply to recognize that
>telnet forces one into a cascade of heuristic hacks.

And then you get unhelpful router manufacturers that put code in to check
whether passwords are typed too fast (or regularly spaced) and ignore them
because they're obviously not dealing with a human!  Took me ages to figure
out why my scripts were failing (then about 10 seconds to defeat it).

Yes, using telnet is more art than science but it's a lot better now than
before we had expect (for heavy duty jobs) and telnetlib (for simpler jobs).

Eddie


From gerrit at nl.linux.org  Thu Apr  1 14:31:09 2004
From: gerrit at nl.linux.org (Gerrit)
Date: Thu, 1 Apr 2004 21:31:09 +0200
Subject: ANNOUNCE: 'goto' for Python
In-Reply-To: <n98m60drsk5ep9ugq6rh6uvg4jdnjtkihh@4ax.com>
References: <n98m60drsk5ep9ugq6rh6uvg4jdnjtkihh@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <20040401193109.GA6475@nl.linux.org>

Richie Hindle wrote:
> This adds the 'goto' and 'comefrom' keywords to Python 2.3, adding
> flexibility to Python's control flow mechanisms and allowing Python
> programmers to use many common control flow idioms that were previously
> denied to them.

Why don't we call goto '$@' and comefrom '@$'?



From has.temp2 at virgin.net  Mon Apr 26 20:04:03 2004
From: has.temp2 at virgin.net (has)
Date: 26 Apr 2004 17:04:03 -0700
Subject: seeking feedback and help on HTMLTemplate 0.4.0
Message-ID: <69cbbef2.0404261604.2b1fe5e7@posting.google.com>

Hi all,

I'm looking for feedback and/or help with preparing my HTMLTemplate
module for its version 1.0 release:

http://freespace.virgin.net/hamish.sanderson/htmltemplate.html

The code and API are now stable, apart from a couple of outstanding
issues described in the Manual's TO DO section that I'd like to get
input on.

The documentation is still very much a work in progress, and has just
undergone an almost total rewrite since the previous release. Help on
editing what's currently written would be greatly appreciated, as
would suggestions on what additional information needs included
(first-rate usability is a core ambition/feature).

I'd like the 1.0.0 final release by end of next month (beyond which I
plan to prepare and submit it for possible inclusion in Python's
standard library), so the more spit-n-polish it gets before then the
better.

Many thanks in advance,

has


From tzot at sil-tec.gr  Wed Apr  7 04:49:00 2004
From: tzot at sil-tec.gr (Christos TZOTZIOY Georgiou)
Date: Wed, 07 Apr 2004 11:49:00 +0300
Subject: An attempt at guessing the encoding of a (non-unicode) string
References: <c1sq60t7af0lgs1ovilg6ds220dkc0inpd@4ax.com>
	<45e6545c.0404050714.5db5ccc6@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <62g770516sd9c4qeqm8o1rv2eisdc3b0eq@4ax.com>

On 5 Apr 2004 08:14:54 -0700, rumours say that unendliche at hanmail.net
(Seo Sanghyeon) might have written:

>I think you will find Mozilla's charset autodetection method
>interesting.
>
>A composite approach to language/encoding detection
>http://www.mozilla.org/projects/intl/UniversalCharsetDetection.html

Thank you!

>Perhaps this can be used with PyXPCOM. I don't know.

Neither do I...
-- 
TZOTZIOY, I speak England very best,
Ils sont fous ces Redmontains! --Harddix


From t-meyer at ihug.co.nz  Thu Apr 22 00:10:32 2004
From: t-meyer at ihug.co.nz (Tony Meyer)
Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2004 16:10:32 +1200
Subject: zip 2 sequences into 1
In-Reply-To: <1ED4ECF91CDED24C8D012BCF2B034F1305FF65A3@its-xchg4.massey.ac.nz>
Message-ID: <1ED4ECF91CDED24C8D012BCF2B034F1304677CB2@its-xchg4.massey.ac.nz>

> How about
> 
>    itertools.chain(*zip(seq1, seq2, seq3, ...))

FWIW, this is faster (and nicer, IMO) than the suggestion I posted:

[using the 'flatten' function posted]
>>> flat.timeit()
8.434350455155613

[using my merge function]
>>> merg.timeit()
7.6710651772781162

[using itertools.chain]
>>> chai.timeit()
6.4707137359636491

=Tony Meyer




From junkmail at solumslekt.org  Fri Apr  2 04:00:49 2004
From: junkmail at solumslekt.org (Leif B. Kristensen)
Date: Fri, 02 Apr 2004 11:00:49 +0200
Subject: String concatenation
References: <wS8bc.4382$px6.64058@news2.e.nsc.no>
	<7xisgi24fm.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<Rz9bc.4514$zf6.60676@news4.e.nsc.no>
	<406D27A7.6550A00B@alcyone.com>
Message-ID: <ZW9bc.4389$px6.64242@news2.e.nsc.no>

Erik Max Francis wrote:

> Probably you included the initial spaces, which is a no-no:

No I didn't. The text is properly aligned. The relevant code now looks
exactly like this:

    res=c.fetchone()
    tmp=[x?for?x?in?res?if?x?and?x[0]?!=?'-']
    return?',?'.join(tmp)

And here's what the interpreter says: 

    tmp=[x?for?x?in?res?if?x?and?x[0]?!=?'-']
          ^
SyntaxError: invalid syntax

The marker has moved to the right, maybe because I removed the spaces on
both sides of the = sign?

regards,
-- 
Leif Biberg Kristensen
http://solumslekt.org/
Validare necesse est


From newsuser at itgoesclick.com  Tue Apr 20 10:48:15 2004
From: newsuser at itgoesclick.com (Noah from IT Goes Click)
Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 14:48:15 GMT
Subject: Thanks, and a URL correction
In-Reply-To: <ks8hc.2746$gH6.1177@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net>
References: <J13hc.186320$oR5.5397@pd7tw3no>
	<ks8hc.2746$gH6.1177@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <PKahc.189360$oR5.3955@pd7tw3no>

Thanks Lucas

the correct URL is (you got a . instead of a / after com)
	http://www.pythonware.com/library/tkinter/introduction/

and the PDF link so those who care don't have to dig
	http://www.pythonware.com/library/tkinter/an-introduction-to-tkinter.pdf


From ruses at users.ch  Thu Apr  1 15:31:23 2004
From: ruses at users.ch (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Morris_Carr=E9?=)
Date: Thu, 01 Apr 2004 22:31:23 +0200
Subject: Python passes the Turing test with a one-liner !
Message-ID: <406C7C1B.3080401@users.ch>


filter(lambda W : W not in 'ILLITERATE','BULLSHIT')



From p_s_oberoi at hotmail.com  Wed Apr 14 03:43:06 2004
From: p_s_oberoi at hotmail.com (Paramjit Oberoi)
Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2004 02:43:06 -0500
Subject: Reommended compiler toolkit
References: <c5g8uu$aak$1@news2.netvision.net.il>
	<c5glft$1cugo$1@ID-111250.news.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <pan.2004.04.14.07.43.03.857335@hotmail.com>

On Tue, 13 Apr 2004 14:06:19 +0200, Diez B. Roggisch wrote:

> Miki Tebeka wrote:
> 
>> ply (which I like most)
>> SPARK, Yapps, PyLR, kwParsing
>> Plex, FlexModule
>> 
>> Which one do you recommend?

Also take a look at 'Toy Parser Generator'
http://christophe.delord.free.fr/en/tpg/

I don't know how fast/slow it is, but the
specification language is very nice.


From cygnus at cprogrammer.org  Sat Apr 10 18:50:19 2004
From: cygnus at cprogrammer.org (Jonathan Daugherty)
Date: Sat, 10 Apr 2004 18:50:19 -0400
Subject: Python is the best and most popular general purpose scripting
	language; the universal scripting language
In-Reply-To: <roy-22B4DA.18282210042004@reader1.panix.com>
References: <a5415304.0404101350.271088f2@posting.google.com>
	<roy-22B4DA.18282210042004@reader1.panix.com>
Message-ID: <20040410225019.GA16891@vulcan.cprogrammer.org>

# So, what makes something a "scripting language" as opposed to a 
# "programming language"?

In a general sense I think "programming" languages are compiled and
"scripting" languages are interpreted.  (If you want to go academic,
you could say python is both, but the internals of the interpreter are
irrelavant insofar as one might say it is an interpreted language.)

-- 
    _  ,^.  _    
  ,'/ -' '- \`.  
 / |   \ /   | \   Jonathan Daugherty
|  |   | |   |  |
|   \_,' `._/   |  http://www.cprogrammer.org
|               |
 \             / 
  `.         .'  
    `--._.--'



From Marc.Poinot at onera.fr  Wed Apr 28 12:18:01 2004
From: Marc.Poinot at onera.fr (Marc Poinot)
Date: Wed, 28 Apr 2004 18:18:01 +0200
Subject: numarray on 64 bits
Message-ID: <408FD939.7D386321@onera.fr>


Did anybody use numarray on a 64 bits platform ? (e.g. SGI/Irix)
The package works on our 64 bits platforms... using 32 bits mode,
but not using 64 mode. Big crash in _ufunc... Is there a flag to
set somewhere, trick, hint, noway ?

-MP- 
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
 Marc POINOT             Alias: marcvs        Email: poinot at onera.fr
 ONERA -MFE/DSNA/ELSA    Tel: 01.46.73.42.84  Info: elsa-info at onera.fr
 29, Div. Leclerc        Fax: 01.46.73.41.66  Site:     
 92322 Chatillon FRANCE  Project: elsA        Web: http://www.onera.fr



From Bang_Bang_Your at crawfishnet.com  Tue Apr 13 11:00:44 2004
From: Bang_Bang_Your at crawfishnet.com (BANG  BANG  YOUR)
Date: 13 Apr 2004 08:00:44 -0700
Subject: Like most hardcore criminals  like Jeff Bond (jbond@nowhere.com)
Message-ID: <2fc51cc6.0404130700.68094a77@posting.google.com>

Like most hardcore criminals  like Jeff Bond (jbond at nowhere.com) 

washed up firefighter fire boy  

Like most hard core criminals like Jeff Bond (jbond at nowhere.com) 
AKA Alan P (alan at nowhere.com AKA Frank he thinks he is smarter 
then everyone but thats why they end up on amw.com on the run 
from the cops and most the time in a body bag. Like most hardcore 
criminals like jeff bond who is a washed up fire boy who has enter 
the life of crime: Day & Night Stalker, mail theft, Auto theft, 
harassment phones calls, cyberstalking, Vandalism and more pls. 
email me for the jeff bond crimes on cd. statements from witness , 
video, pics. and police reports


From fumanchu at amor.org  Fri Apr  2 13:00:19 2004
From: fumanchu at amor.org (Robert Brewer)
Date: Fri, 2 Apr 2004 10:00:19 -0800
Subject: Deduping (was Fake post)
Message-ID: <DE1CF2B4FEC4A342BF62B6B2B334601E561FA7@opus.amorhq.net>

Christian Tismer wrote:
> That's nice to hear! I'm interested to know how you got
> along with removing relationships between records.

With a bit of experimentation, I think the memory issue came down to
having a single dict that was too large; at approx 5.5 million items, I
believe the dict resized again and ended up thrashing in virtual memory.
The quick and simple solution was simply to create 256 dictionaries,
distributing them over the first byte. Since this worked with a dataset
of 20 million items, I didn't bother taking the next step of
SHA-digesting them.

Since I had 3 fields on which to independently dedupe, I ended up
building each list in a separate pass, as you did. Then, once the full
list had been built, I made a single new dict out of the intermediate
256 dicts, passing on any item which only appeared once (this wouldn't
work for every situation, but it fit my dataset pretty well, with about
10%-50% duplicates):

        product = {}
        for subindex in index.itervalues():
            for i in xrange(len(subindex)):
                key, hits = subindex.popitem()
                if hits > 1:
                    product[key] = hits
        return product

I also did some validation on this pass, btw, before inserting into the
index.

Then, I did a second pass on the dataset where I checked for each value
(in one of the indexed fields) in the appropriate list of duplicates. If
present, I wrote a blank field per my client's request. As I went, I
decremented the hitcounts until I reached 1: this should have been the
last occurrence of the value, which I printed normally.

        # Check for dupes
        if atom in dupes[fieldname]:
            if dupes[fieldname][atom] <= 1:
                del dupes[fieldname][atom]
            else:
                dupes[fieldname][atom] -= 1
                atom = ''


The 20-million-record dataset took about 4 hours in total, mostly due to
my typing at the keyboard and manually examining each source file to see
what order the columns were in. The actual index-building took a few
minutes.


Robert Brewer
MIS
Amor Ministries
fumanchu at amor.org



From fumanchu at amor.org  Wed Apr 21 19:06:41 2004
From: fumanchu at amor.org (Robert Brewer)
Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2004 16:06:41 -0700
Subject: Cell objects and their values
Message-ID: <DE1CF2B4FEC4A342BF62B6B2B334601E562039@opus.amorhq.net>

Say I obtain a cell object via:

>>> def f():
... 	y = 3
... 	def g():
... 		return y
... 	return g
... 
>>> f().func_closure[0]
<cell at 0x011787F0: int object at 0x002F9320>

Is there a way to get the value of the int (f.y) which is referenced by
the cell, without inspecting (or even having a reference to) f? That is,
using only the object "g()" and its attributes, I'd like to obtain the
same value for LOAD_DEREF that the interpreter does; in the same way
that I can access g.func_globals, I'd like something similar to
"g.func_cellvars" (not just the names as in g.func_code.co_cellvars, but
the values)...


Robert Brewer
MIS
Amor Ministries
fumanchu at amor.org



From tjreedy at udel.edu  Wed Apr 21 14:48:49 2004
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2004 14:48:49 -0400
Subject: Optimizing a text statistics function
References: <c661pe$tie$1@f1node01.rhrz.uni-bonn.de><mb4d80lu4jakcqlq7bkel0f5jm6913vosh@4ax.com>
	<40869EC1.8030504@cenix-bioscience.com>
Message-ID: <c66fmb$t6h$1@sea.gmane.org>


"Neil Benn" <benn at cenix-bioscience.com> wrote in message
news:40869EC1.8030504 at cenix-bioscience.com...
>     In other languages I've used (mainly java although some C, C# VB
> <wash out your mouth>), the way I woud look at speeding this up is to
> avoid loading all the words into memory in one go and then working upon
> them.  I'd create one stream which reads through the file, then passes
> onto a listener each word it finds from the lexing (making the input
> into tokens) and then another stream listening to this which will then
> sort out the detail from these tokens (parsing), finally an output
> stream which put this data wherever it needs to be (DB, screen, file,
> etc).  This means that the program would scale better (if you pass the
> European voting register through your system it would take exponentially
> much longer as you must scan the information twice).

You are talking about chaining iterators, which the generators and the new
iterator protocol make easier than before -- intentionally.  Something like
following (untested).

filename = 'whatever'

def wordify(source):
   for line in source:
      for word in line.split():
         yield word.strip()

def tabulate(words):
   counts = {}
   for word in words:
      counts[word] = counts.get[word,0]
   for wordcount in count.iteritems():
      yield wordcount

def disposer(wordcounts):
   for wordcount in wordcounts:
      print wordcount

disposer(tabulate(wordify(filename)))


>     However as more experienced python programmers have not suggested
> this is this because there is :
>
> a.  Something I'm not getting about python text handling

Nothing obvious.

> b. Not easy/possible in python

Wrong (see above)

c. The OPs question (speedup) was answered a half hour after posting by an
experienced P. progammer (use dict.get) -- which answer makes the
processing one-pass, which in turn makes chaining possible.

d. It has been less than 5 hours since OP posted.

e. The OP did not ask how to restructure program to make it more modular.
Thinking ahead to make code more reusable and scaleable is a second order
concern after learning basics like getting .get().  But since you brought
the subject up ...

Terry J. Reedy








From mtadin66 at yahoo.com  Mon Apr 12 07:22:25 2004
From: mtadin66 at yahoo.com (Marijan Tadin)
Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2004 12:22:25 +0100
Subject: Best IDE?
References: <c5bg1k$25vq$1@news.wplus.net>
Message-ID: <c5e149$j70$1@ls219.htnet.hr>

I love SciTE.

"Stevie_mac" <no.email at please.com> wrote in message
news:c5bg1k$25vq$1 at news.wplus.net...
> This has prolly been asked 100 times - so please refrain from flaming
if you can...
>
> What's the best MSwindows editor for python?  I'm currently using
PythonWin (ActiveState) at the moment, its a bit
> buggy - but not too bad. I mean, its got autocomplete & tips & help &
autoindentaion (not always good tho).
>
> Thing is, I'm sure there is something better. Is there?
>
> (is there a VS.NET addin?)
>
>



From alf at calvin.fayauffre.org  Wed Apr 14 05:42:51 2004
From: alf at calvin.fayauffre.org (Alexandre Fayolle)
Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2004 09:42:51 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Aspect Programming Module
References: <84fc4588.0404140106.3fa0c55@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <slrnc7q1ss.1aa.alf@largo.fayauffre.org>

Le 14-04-2004, Anand Pillai <pythonguy at Hotpop.com> a ?crit?:
> Is there any module/toolkit or framework for doing
> aspect oriented programming (AOP) in Python?

You may want to try the logilab.aspects package, available at
http://www.logilab.org/projects/aspects/ 

-- 
Alexandre Fayolle
LOGILAB, Paris (France).
http://www.logilab.com   http://www.logilab.fr  http://www.logilab.org
D?veloppement logiciel avanc? - Intelligence Artificielle - Formations


From fgeiger at datec.at  Fri Apr  2 02:53:49 2004
From: fgeiger at datec.at (F. GEIGER)
Date: Fri, 2 Apr 2004 09:53:49 +0200
Subject: Subclassing file and getting around the file.__init__ rigidity
References: <807692de.0404012244.53b476dc@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <c4j66h$a0k$1@newshispeed.ch>

# Untested code

class BufferedFile(file):

    def __init__(self, name):
        if type(name) == file:
            self.__dict__.update(file.__dict__) # Kinda cctor
        else:
            file.__init__(self, name)
        self.buffer = None

Cheers
Franz

"Jan Burgy" <jburgy at hotmail.com> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:807692de.0404012244.53b476dc at posting.google.com...
> Hi all y'all,
>
> Consider the class down below. I've implemented it just because I
> needed the pushback method. Now of course the third line in __init__
> doesn't work and I even understand why. My question is: is there any
> way to make it work? Somebody proposed a patch for fileobject.c to
> allow stuff like fp = file(fp1.fileno()) but it looks like it's been
> rejected. I won't so bold as to request a change in Python. Should I
> try to re-write this class in C? Although I know C I'm much to lazy to
> take on the entire python API, not that it doesn't look nice.
>
> Thanks for your help
>
> Jan Burgy
>
> class BufferedFile(file):
>
>     def __init__(self, name):
>         if type(name) == file:
>             self = name                   # DOESN'T WORK!
>         else:
>             file.__init__(self, name)
>         self.buffer = None
>
>     def readline(self):
>         if self.buffer:
>             i = self.buffer.find("\n")
>             line, self.buffer = self.buffer[:i], self.buffer[:i+1]
>         else:
>             line = file.readline(self)
>         return line
>
>     def pushback(self, line):
>         self.buffer = line + self.buffer




From marbling at hey-diddley-ho.com  Tue Apr  6 07:18:29 2004
From: marbling at hey-diddley-ho.com (McLuhan O. Ordain)
Date: Tue, 06 Apr 2004 04:18:29 -0700
Subject: Up to 80 percent off on medication, Python.
Message-ID: <010001c41bc8$dfac2ec2$29613e7d@hey-diddley-ho.com>

HOLA!
I suppose some editors are failed writers but so are most writers.

Python, searching for a source to shop for medication?
I is another.
Gossip is the opiate of the oppressed.
True courage is a result of reasoning. A brave mind is always impregnable.

We ship worldwide
He that will be angry for anything will be angry for nothing.
Your easy solution is here
http://feminie.utdhosw.com/d13/index.php?id=d13
You are absolutely anonymous!
But his kiss was so sweet, and so closely he pressed, that I languished and pined till I granted the rest.
Education is a social process. Education is growth. Education is, not a preparation for life education is life itself.

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From joe at notcharles.ca  Mon Apr  5 12:33:08 2004
From: joe at notcharles.ca (Joe Mason)
Date: Mon, 05 Apr 2004 16:33:08 GMT
Subject: Python is faster than C
References: <DE1CF2B4FEC4A342BF62B6B2B334601E561FAC@opus.amorhq.net>
	<mailman.311.1081031736.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<c4qnom$p6j$1@panix1.panix.com>
	<36wn05qkeyk.fsf@hundertwasser.ti.uni-mannheim.de>
Message-ID: <slrnc732i2.aal.joe@gate.notcharles.ca>

In article <36wn05qkeyk.fsf at hundertwasser.ti.uni-mannheim.de>, Matthias wrote:
> Isn't the whole idea of very high level languages to shift complexity
> from the user code to the language implementation?  

Yes, but there's always a tradeoff to be made.  Going through
contortions in the VM to make user code only slightly simpler isn't
worthwhile.  Neither is going through contortions to optimize an
extremely rare bit of user code.

Also, a big part of keeping user code simple is making the language
conceptually simple.  If lots of optimizations are done behind the
user's back, it can be confusing to remember which operations are
already optimized.

Take the example of storing large lists as a small pattern and a
repetition counter.  I'd argue that this is hard to get right at the VM
level because you need to consider lots of cases - it's much easier for
the user who knows exactly what patterns need to be optimized.  I also
doubt it will come up too often.  Finally, a user might assume the
optimization is more powerful than it is - for instance, noticing that
huge lists of repeating numbers magically take little memory, they might
fill a huge list in randomly and assume it will work.

Joe


From martin at v.loewis.de  Mon Apr 19 16:09:05 2004
From: martin at v.loewis.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?=22Martin_v=2E_L=F6wis=22?=)
Date: Mon, 19 Apr 2004 22:09:05 +0200
Subject: using a USB HID device
In-Reply-To: <4083899d.1220139618@news.xs4all.nl>
References: <40827ce3.1151345337@news.xs4all.nl>	<c5ufh6$rok$02$1@news.t-online.com>	<4082e29d.1177387563@news.xs4all.nl>
	<mailman.746.1082320568.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<c5vo2p$ed6$02$1@news.t-online.com>
	<4083899d.1220139618@news.xs4all.nl>
Message-ID: <408431E1.8080201@v.loewis.de>

Wouter van Ooijen (www.voti.nl) wrote:
> 
> But I can live with something that appears to be pure python, like one
> which only requires a win-specific addition. after all win32all is
> windows-specific too, but I regard it as part of the windows-python
> installation. One more dll is no problem, as long as I don't have to
> write (and maintain!) it :)

So libusb-win32 might be the solution for you (with other libusb
incarnations for other systems).

Notice, however, that your users need administrator privileges to
install a kernel mode driver.

Regards,
Martin



From roy at panix.com  Thu Apr 15 18:52:43 2004
From: roy at panix.com (Roy Smith)
Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2004 18:52:43 -0400
Subject: CamelCase versus wide_names (Prothon)
References: <UHxfc.9323$dZ1.3740@fed1read04>
	<mailman.666.1082064823.20120.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <roy-04D784.18524315042004@reader2.panix.com>

Fran?ois Pinard <pinard at iro.umontreal.ca> wrote:
> Given full power and choice, what I would prefer is that identifiers be
> allowed to contain spaces -- would they have to be unbreakable spaces.
> That would be the most legible avenue, especially given that my editors
> and enscripters would then bold or colour Python/Prothon keywords, making
> it clear the extent of each identifier.

That's an interesting point.  Most computer languages are written in 
ASCII.  Typographic embelishments(*) like font, size, color, and so on 
are all ignored.  It's only relatively recently that case has become 
significant.

By contrast, the languages of math (maths to you silly Europeans), 
science, and engineering are full of wonderful typography.  Different 
fonts, character sets, diacritical marks, character placement, and 
special symbols are all meaningful.  For the most part, we struggle 
along with things like

$ sum from x = 0 to inf [ pi sup x * j hat * omega dot ] $

when what we'd write with pen and paper looks nothing like that.  
Someday, when we finally break out of the 80-column, fixed width, 
monochrome, monofont, monosize, 7-bit world, our arguments about 
wide_name vs. bumpyCase will seem just as pre-historic as the $$ 
gibberish above.

(*) Granted, what I call an "embellishement", many people would call 
"the ability to use all the letters in my native alphabet".


From kirk at strauser.com  Mon Apr 26 18:05:07 2004
From: kirk at strauser.com (Kirk Strauser)
Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2004 22:05:07 GMT
Subject: Is Perl *that* good?
References: <c6ich0$c5mee$1@ID-205437.news.uni-berlin.de>
	<iL3jc.232$Yc.2330@news4.e.nsc.no>
	<108q51j4dscn7dc@corp.supernews.com> <knbjc.267$id.3998@news2.e.nsc.no>
	<pan.2004.04.26.20.50.19.843510@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <87fzaqmm8t.fsf@strauser.com>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

At 2004-04-26T20:50:22Z, Paramjit Oberoi <p_s_oberoi at hotmail.com> writes:

> I have always felt that just like Jason Orendorff's path.py module makes
> working with paths so incredibly convenient, a similarly well-designed
> regex.py might make text processing as easy in python as it is in perl.

I haven't noticed much of a different between Perl's regex and Python's
re.py module, other than I'm now typing:

    pattern.match(string)

instead of

    string ~= pattern

- -- 
Kirk Strauser
The Strauser Group
Open. Solutions. Simple.
http://www.strausergroup.com/
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6d2x9KAJGe+T67W6W4Y1zVI=
=j8qP
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From peter at engcorp.com  Wed Apr  7 09:11:34 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Wed, 07 Apr 2004 09:11:34 -0400
Subject: Customizing the python search path depending on source directory
In-Reply-To: <5cf809e9.0404070452.643b7053@posting.google.com>
References: <5cf809e9.0404061853.41cd3c85@posting.google.com>
	<BbudnT8dYIUS8u7dRVn-vw@powergate.ca>
	<5cf809e9.0404070452.643b7053@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <hsWdncv_b86aY-7d4p2dnA@powergate.ca>

Peter Schwalm wrote:

> Peter Hansen <peter at engcorp.com> wrote in message news:> >
> Thank you for your answer. But I'm afraid it's not the source
> directory but the current working directory. You can see the
> difference if you copy the passage
> 
>     "for ix1, p1 in enumerate(sys.path): print "%02.02d: %s" % (ix1,
> p1)"
> 
> to a "normal script". If you start that "normal script" from a
> directory other than the source directory, you can see that both
> directories are included in sys.path. If you run this code inside
> sitecustomize.py this is not the case.

On the contrary.  When I start that from another directory which
is *not* in the path, I do not see that directory in the sys.path
at all, but merely the directory in which the script itself is
stored.  This is the defined behaviour of the Python sys.path
stuff and you must be misinterpreting something.

The current directory is *not* added to sys.path, unless it
just happens that the main script is in the current directory.

-Peter


From pythonguy at Hotpop.com  Wed Apr 14 05:06:59 2004
From: pythonguy at Hotpop.com (Anand Pillai)
Date: 14 Apr 2004 02:06:59 -0700
Subject: Aspect Programming Module
Message-ID: <84fc4588.0404140106.3fa0c55@posting.google.com>

Is there any module/toolkit or framework for doing
aspect oriented programming (AOP) in Python?

For example AspectJ from Xerox park is a framework
which can be used to do this for Java.

Many TIA...

-Anand


From __peter__ at web.de  Fri Apr 30 10:41:50 2004
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2004 16:41:50 +0200
Subject: Tkinter: focus/text selection problem with tkFileDialog
References: <409259ed$0$574$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>
Message-ID: <c6tojf$fld$04$1@news.t-online.com>

Irmen de Jong wrote:

> Hi,
> I'm having trouble with the code below.
> It's just a regular Tk text widget in which you can type and
> select text as expected, however the call to
> tkFileDialog.askopenfilename() seems to screw things up. After the file
> dialog, I can no longer use the Text widget (typing, selecting, it doesn't
> work anymore!) What am I doing wrong?

No sure, but opening the dialog before entering the main loop could be the
problem. The following modification seems to work:

import Tkinter, tkFileDialog

window = Tkinter.Tk()
txt = Tkinter.Text(window)
txt.insert(Tkinter.END, "Choose a file, then try to select me")
txt.pack()

def openFile(event=None):
    name = tkFileDialog.askopenfilename()
    txt.insert(Tkinter.END, "\nFile chosen: " + name)

txt.focus_set()
window.after_idle(openFile)
window.mainloop()

Peter



From katximan at gmx.net  Tue Apr  6 19:51:29 2004
From: katximan at gmx.net (Asier)
Date: 6 Apr 2004 16:51:29 -0700
Subject: Compact Python library for math statistics
References: <E1B9LoV-0005OQ-00@fatlady.ukr.net>
	<mailman.267.1080904644.20120.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <4e1cc86c.0404061551.17caaa10@posting.google.com>

> > I'm looking for a Python library for math statistics. This must be a cl
> ear set of general statistics functions like 'average', 'variance', 'cova
> riance' etc.

Have you looked at PyGSL? http://pygsl.sf.net

I've programmed with the GSL library in C and works very well and
fast. It has code for a very long list of mathematical functions.
Currently pygsl is a WIP but has some modules completed.

--
Asier.


From jeffbarish at starband.net  Mon Apr  5 17:01:32 2004
From: jeffbarish at starband.net (Jeffrey Barish)
Date: Mon, 05 Apr 2004 15:01:32 -0600
Subject: CSV ignores lineterminator
References: <c4s8q9$5vc$1@sea.gmane.org>
	<16497.47126.723619.586429@montanaro.dyndns.org>
Message-ID: <c4shfc$s6e$1@sea.gmane.org>

Skip Montanaro wrote:

>>>>>> "Jeffrey" == Jeffrey Barish <jeffbarish at starband.net> writes:
> 
>     Jeffrey> With
>     Jeffrey> input_data = ['word1\tword2;word3\tword4;',
>     Jeffrey> 'word5\tword6;word7\tword8;']
> 
>     Jeffrey> and
> 
>     Jeffrey> delimiter = '\t'
>     Jeffrey> lineterminator = ';'
> 
>     Jeffrey> shouldn't csv.reader(input_data, dialect='mydialect')
>     return
> 
>     Jeffrey> ['word1', 'word2']
> 
>     Jeffrey> as the first row?  I find that it doesn't matter how I
>     set Jeffrey> lineterminator, csv always terminates at the end of
>     the line returned Jeffrey> by the iterable object passed as its
>     first argument (input_data, in
>     Jeffrey> this case).  I must be missing something basic here.
> 
>     Jeffrey> I may be confused about the interaction between what
>     iterable Jeffrey> object defines as the next row and what
>     csv.reader defines as Jeffrey> the next row.
> 
> Perhaps.  Think of input_data as the conceptual result of
> f.read().split(lineterminator) (though without loss of the line
> terminator):
> 
>     >>> input_data = ['word1\tword2;',
>     >>> 'word3\tword4;','word5\tword6;', 'word7\tword8;'] import csv
>     >>> class d(csv.excel):
>     ...   delimiter='\t'
>     ...   lineterminator=';'
>     ...
>     >>> rdr = csv.reader(input_data, dialect=d)
>     >>> rdr.next()
>     ['word1', 'word2;']
>     >>> rdr.next()
>     ['word3', 'word4;']
>     >>> rdr.next()
>     ['word5', 'word6;']
>     >>> rdr.next()
>     ['word7', 'word8;']
> 
> Skip
> 
Thanks for your reply.

Yes, I expect your example to work because each entry in the list
defines a "line" regardless of csv:

for line in input_data:
        print line

word1   word2;
word3   word4;
word5   word6;
word7   word8;

In fact, if you leave out the semicolons, you get exactly the same list
(sans semicolons, of course), so csv is terminating lines even though
the lineterminator is not there.

In my example, the first "line" of the list is
'word1\tword2;word3\tword4'.  What I expect to happen is that the list
passes the entire line to csv.reader(), which then splits off
'word1\tword2' as the first line by virtue of the presence of the
lineterminator ';' and then continues to scan what remains.  As there
is no line terminator after 'word3\tword4', I expect csv.reader() to
pull in the next "line" of the list in its search for another
lineterminator, which it finds after word6, so the next line from cvs
would be 'word3\tword4word5\tword6'.  I don't see any evidence that cvs
is terminating lines based on lineterminator rather than the
termination used by the iterator object.
-- 
Jeffrey Barish




From no.email at please.com  Fri Apr  9 19:03:07 2004
From: no.email at please.com (Stevie_mac)
Date: Sat, 10 Apr 2004 00:03:07 +0100
Subject: Simple Class Question - need clarity please
Message-ID: <EYFdc.51749$Id.27192@news-binary.blueyonder.co.uk>

OK, 1st off, I'm brand new to python so all help is appreciated. Right...

Lets say I want a class called Window.  It will have some functions namely DoModal()
Now this class is inherited in MyClass
What is wrong with this?...

import win32con, win32ui
from pywin.mfc import dialog #, window
class Window:
    def MakeDlgTemplate(self):
        style = win32con.DS_MODALFRAME | win32con.WS_POPUP | win32con.WS_VISIBLE | win32con.WS_CAPTION |
win32con.WS_SYSMENU | win32con.DS_SETFONT
        dlg = [ ["My Dialog", (0, 0, 100, 100), style, None, (8, "MS Sans Serif")], ]
        s = win32con.BS_PUSHBUTTON | win32con.WS_CHILD | win32con.WS_VISIBLE
        dlg.append([128, "Cancel", win32con.IDCANCEL, (55, 80, 40, 16), s])
        return dlg
    def DoModal(self):
        mw = win32ui.CreateDialogIndirect( self.MakeDlgTemplate() )
        mw.DoModal()

w = Window()
w.DoModal()

 ^ ^ ^ This Works ^ ^ ^
but if I disable w = Window() & w.DoModal() and derive from this class . . .

# file test.py #
import mywindow
class MyClass(mywindow.Window):
    def Show(self):
        self.DoModal()

t = MyClass()
t.Show()

. . . I get
NameError: global name 'MakeDlgTemplate' is not defined  ???

another 1 I managed to clear up was . . .
TypeError: Show() takes no arguments (1 given)
. . . until I added 'self' to the Show function  ???


I really am struggling with this - some real clarity is needed - can anyone explain the rules (I've read stuff &
dissected samples, but I still struggle when it comes to this.  If someone can clear this up for me, I should be flying
as I am familiar with the concepts of OOP)

I'm also struggling with other things like...
Where do I save .py files?
Will 'import' find my files where ever they are? (obviously not but...)
What basic should be considerations when deriving classes?

any help will be greatly appreciated - Ta Stevie_Mac




From SDNS-SA at kv.ukrtel.net  Thu Apr  8 07:57:04 2004
From: SDNS-SA at kv.ukrtel.net (SDNS-SA at kv.ukrtel.net)
Date: Thu, 8 Apr 2004 14:57:04 +0300 
Subject: [MailServer Notification] To Sender a virus was found and action 
	taken.
Message-ID: <812247F89B71D7118491003048244AF001D203E3@sdns.kv.ukrtel.net>

ScanMail for Microsoft Exchange took action on the message.  The message
details were: 
Sender = python-list at python.org
Recipient(s) = ems at kv.ukrtel.net;
Subject = Mail Delivery (failure ems at kv.ukrtel.net)
Scanning time = 04/08/2004 14:57:04
Engine/Pattern = 6.810-1005/853

Action taken on message:
The attachment message.scr contained WORM_NETSKY.P virus. ScanMail took the
action: Deleted. 
Warning to sender. ScanMail has detected a virus in an email you sent.



From FBatista at uniFON.com.ar  Thu Apr 15 16:30:30 2004
From: FBatista at uniFON.com.ar (Batista, Facundo)
Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2004 17:30:30 -0300
Subject: Breakpoint in IDLE's debugger
Message-ID: <A128D751272CD411BC9200508BC2194D0338389B@escpl.tcp.com.ar>

I want to start my program under the IDLE's debugger, click "Go", and let
the program run.

But also want that if the program goes through a specific line of code, to
stop and let me advance with "Step" or "Over" buttons.

In Borland C++ 4.0 this was called "breakpoint": you mark a line with a
breakpoint and get that behaviour.

Exists something similar in IDLE?

Thank you!

.	Facundo





. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
ADVERTENCIA  

La informaci?n contenida en este mensaje y cualquier archivo anexo al mismo,
son para uso exclusivo del destinatario y pueden contener informaci?n
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Si Ud. No es uno de los destinatarios consignados o la persona responsable
de hacer llegar este mensaje a los destinatarios consignados, no est?
autorizado a divulgar, copiar, distribuir o retener informaci?n (o parte de
ella) contenida en este mensaje. Por favor notif?quenos respondiendo al
remitente, borre el mensaje original y borre las copias (impresas o grabadas
en cualquier medio magn?tico) que pueda haber realizado del mismo. 

Todas las opiniones contenidas en este mail son propias del autor del
mensaje y no necesariamente coinciden con las de Telef?nica Comunicaciones
Personales S.A. o alguna empresa asociada. 

Los mensajes electr?nicos pueden ser alterados, motivo por el cual
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From sridharinfinity at yahoo.com  Sat Apr  3 05:46:52 2004
From: sridharinfinity at yahoo.com (Sridhar R)
Date: 3 Apr 2004 02:46:52 -0800
Subject: GUI Frameworks in Python?
References: <mailman.102.1080629227.20120.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <930ba99a.0404030246.786455f5@posting.google.com>

"Hugh Macdonald" <HughMacdonald at brokenpipefilms.com> wrote in message news:<mailman.102.1080629227.20120.python-list at python.org>...
> I've recently been trying out various different GUI frameworks in Python and
> was wondering if I could get your input on the pros and cons of the
> different ones...
> 
> wxPython: I love the programming side of wxPython, but I find it's just so
> slow to initialise in the first place.
> 
> Tkinter: While it's fast to load up, the syntax has never really appealed to
> me
> 
> GTK: Unknown - I'm looking into it today
> 
> Qt: I have yet to manage to install it on my system
> 
> Anything else?
> 
> 
> Hugh Macdonald

Man, you better use PyGTK (http://pygtk.org). It's portable (See pygtk
faq for windows port). It's neet (API).
Try also `glade`, `libglade`.
http://glade.gnome.org , I think?


From http  Sun Apr 11 21:11:42 2004
From: http (Paul Rubin)
Date: 11 Apr 2004 18:11:42 -0700
Subject: Python OS
References: <107j4eu6ffn2c68@corp.supernews.com>
	<107jq68ao58o7ff@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <7xy8p2m241.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

"A Evans" <ae> writes:
> Hey thanks everyone for the replies I guess it would be quite the task to
> embark on I would like to do it and I think I will over the next couple of
> years as my skills improve and I start saving some cash to get it off the
> ground and to get other programmers and planners involved.

Don't put any cash into it.  Just start up a Python window and see how
far you can go.  You'll learn a lot whether you come up with anything
useful or not.


From fumanchu at amor.org  Sat Apr 17 20:53:51 2004
From: fumanchu at amor.org (Robert Brewer)
Date: Sat, 17 Apr 2004 17:53:51 -0700
Subject: Proposed PEP: Treating Builtins as Constants in the Standard
	Library
Message-ID: <DE1CF2B4FEC4A342BF62B6B2B334601E562016@opus.amorhq.net>

Raymond Hettinger wrote a new PEP proposal:
> For each module in the standard library, add a pair of lines near
> the near of the code::

I think you meant, "near the end of the code". ;)

> Q. Why not make this a public module so that users can 
> optimize builtins
>    or builtins and globals in their own code?
> 
> A. The ASPN recipe [2]_ is provided for this purpose.  It 
> takes a modicum
>    of skill to use correctly and not inadvertently tranform a 
> non-constant.

HmmmmMmmmm..yeah... but then so does your garden-variety "while True:"
loop. I for one would hate reusing the ASPN one when there's one not
only already written but already loaded(!). And...as the builtin
matures, I doubt the cookbook recipe will keep pace.

Meh. I'm going to have to think more about that one.


Robert Brewer
MIS
Amor Ministries
fumanchu at amor.org



From simon at struktur.de  Mon Apr  5 03:59:56 2004
From: simon at struktur.de (Simon Eisenmann)
Date: Mon, 05 Apr 2004 09:59:56 +0200
Subject: Python 2.3.3 SuSE Linux RPMs available
Message-ID: <c4r3l8$56f$2@sea.gmane.org>

Hi,

during building Plone2 rpms for SuSE linux i was forced to create python 
2.3.3 rpms for this linux distribution. As this may be useful for ppl 
outside the zope community as well i post this here.

See http://longsleep.org/howto/suse9-python233 for a howto to get Python 
2.3.3 installed by rpm on SuSE linux.

cheers,
  Simon




From mrroach at okmaybe.com  Wed Apr 21 11:10:00 2004
From: mrroach at okmaybe.com (Mark Roach)
Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2004 15:10:00 GMT
Subject: Can't spawn, or popen from daemon
In-Reply-To: <mailman.828.1082546469.20120.python-list@python.org>
References: <1082481539.1395.21.camel@localhost>
	<mailman.828.1082546469.20120.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1082560180.1395.39.camel@localhost>

Thanks to both of you guys for your responses, it turned out to be a
simple programmer-error (no surprise). 

The original, non-daemon version of my program could take input from
stdin or from argv[1] and I was trying to test using stdin, forgetting
somehow that I had explicitly closed it already... I amaze myself
sometimes...

Thanks again,

Mark





From paul at prescod.net  Fri Apr  9 20:15:03 2004
From: paul at prescod.net (Paul Prescod)
Date: Fri, 09 Apr 2004 17:15:03 -0700
Subject: module not callable - why not?
In-Reply-To: <c56ouf$o0u$1@sea.gmane.org>
References: <c56jph$rrk$05$1@news.t-online.com> <c56ouf$o0u$1@sea.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <40773C87.6030602@prescod.net>

Terry Reedy wrote:
 > ...
>>from quaternion import quaternion
>>would solve that - but AFAIK thats considered bad for some reasons.
> 
> 
> By who?  and why would you let whoever override your preference ;-)
> I have only read suggestions that one be careful with from x import *.

If you use the "import from X from Y" form you need to understand the 
implications. It isn't just a shorter way of referring to Y. You're also 
removing a level of indirection that you have when you refer to it via 
X.Y. This means that if someone rebinds X.Y you won't see that. 
Typically you don't care but in some cases you might.

  Paul Prescod




From garryknight at gmx.net  Mon Apr  5 17:04:29 2004
From: garryknight at gmx.net (Garry Knight)
Date: Mon, 05 Apr 2004 22:04:29 +0100
Subject: Up to 80 percent off on medication, Python.
References: <mailman.367.1081194568.20120.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1081199068.13889.0@eunomia.uk.clara.net>

In message <mailman.367.1081194568.20120.python-list at python.org>, Moon D.
Rungs wrote:

> Python, searching for a source to purchase medication?
> A moment's insight is sometimes worth a life's experience.
> The quality of decision is like the well-timed swoop of a falcon which
> enables it to strike and destroy its victim. There is a tendency for
> things to right themselves.

You should be *taking* your medication, not trying to sell it on to
others...

-- 
Garry Knight
garryknight at gmx.net  ICQ 126351135
Linux registered user 182025


From greg at cosc.canterbury.ac.nz  Sun Apr 25 22:43:51 2004
From: greg at cosc.canterbury.ac.nz (Greg Ewing)
Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2004 14:43:51 +1200
Subject: Why we will use obj$func() often
In-Reply-To: <wQdic.28868$dZ1.3972@fed1read04>
References: <d2Uhc.22272$dZ1.1600@fed1read04>
	<84Uhc.22278$dZ1.5087@fed1read04><mailman.927.1082665370.20120.python-list@python.org><8AWhc.23114$dZ1.11070@fed1read04>
	<40883BFE.B381518A@alcyone.com><27_hc.23801$dZ1.2716@fed1read04>
	<40887145.789A2FE8@alcyone.com><WqWdnfW7RpSmhRTdRVn-uw@speakeasy.net><MMcic.28546$dZ1.18087@fed1read04>
	<mailman.973.1082745297.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<wQdic.28868$dZ1.3972@fed1read04>
Message-ID: <c6ht17$bkaiv$2@ID-169208.news.uni-berlin.de>

Mark Hahn wrote:
> I just meant that people "pre-judge" Prothon based on it's looks.

That argument might make sense if looks were irrelevant to
the usability of a language, but they're not -- looks have
a lot to do with readability. It's probably fair to say
that readability is *all* about looks.

-- 
Greg Ewing, Computer Science Dept,
University of Canterbury,	
Christchurch, New Zealand
http://www.cosc.canterbury.ac.nz/~greg



From max at alcyone.com  Mon Apr  5 14:41:49 2004
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Mon, 05 Apr 2004 11:41:49 -0700
Subject: Intermittant slow startup
References: <9badaf0.0404051033.9fec2db@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <4071A86D.97CA6CAE@alcyone.com>

Michael Mossey wrote:

> Runnng python 2.2 on HP-UX, I get intermittant slow startup.
> Sometimes python starts up in a small fraction of a second, and
> sometimes takes 3-5 seconds.  This applies to any script I run, or
> just typing 'python' at the prompt.
> 
> I also observed something similar on Linux.
> 
> Any ideas what would cause *intermittant* slow startup?

Caching?  Is it a long time between invocations that it takes a long
time to start up?

-- 
 __ Erik Max Francis && max at alcyone.com && http://www.alcyone.com/max/
/  \ San Jose, CA, USA && 37 20 N 121 53 W && AIM erikmaxfrancis
\__/ A father is a thousand schoolmasters.
    -- Louis Nizer


From pinard at iro.umontreal.ca  Wed Apr 21 08:37:31 2004
From: pinard at iro.umontreal.ca (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Fran=E7ois?= Pinard)
Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2004 08:37:31 -0400
Subject: if (__name__ == '__main__'): main(sys.argv[1:])
In-Reply-To: <4085A445.1050303@heneryd.com>
References: <01c601c4271b$7f7300a0$b401010a@sparta>
	<4085A445.1050303@heneryd.com>
Message-ID: <20040421123731.GA6986@alcyon.progiciels-bpi.ca>

[Erik Heneryd]
> Eli Stevens (WG.c) wrote:
> >I have a question about proper Python style when it comes to having a main
> >function in a module.

> http://www.artima.com/weblogs/viewpost.jsp?thread=4829

I asked myself the same question for a good while, and came up with the
following skeleton from nearly all my Python programs.  At times, I
was removing lines below which appeared superfluous to me for smallish
scripts, but found out in the long run that, sooner or later for any
script which was surviving for some while, I have to add back the lines
I removed, while adding new features as needed in such scripts, so I now
stick to that skeleton.  More comments follow below.

---------------------------------------------------------------------->
#!/usr/bin/env python
# -*- coding: Latin-1
# Copyright ? 2004 Progiciels Bourbeau-Pinard inc.
# Fran?ois Pinard <pinard at iro.umontreal.ca>, 2004.

"""\

"""

__metaclass__ = type

class Main:
    def __init__(self):
        pass

    def main(self, *arguments):
        import getopt
        options, arguments = getopt.getopt(arguments, '')
        for option, valeur in options:
            pass

run = Main()
main = run.main

if __name__ == '__main__':
    import sys
    main(*sys.argv[1:])
----------------------------------------------------------------------<

If that file is imported instead of executed as a main program, the
`Main.main' method does not execute, but the `Main' object is still
instantiated and available within the imported module under the name
`run'.  This can be used to call its methods, modify its options, etc.

The role of `__init__' is to setup the `run' object, and in particular,
to initialise default values for run options.  The `main' method proper
goes after the `pass' at its end, which gets replaced, of course, by
option processing if any.

The strange `*' which appears in two place is so that `main' may
be called after the module being imported, with a variable number
of explicit arguments.  This has proven to be the most natural and
convenient way to proceed: we think of the `main' method as accepting
a list of arguments, not a bundle them in a list or tuple.  This is
useful, in particular, in an interactive Python session.  The program
name is not a useful first argument in the general case, this is why it
is excluded in the last line of the above template, when the module is
run as a script.

Of course, the initial doc string is meant to be filled appropriately.

A word about the `__metaclass__' line.  My intent is to forget all about
classic classes and go with the new type system as quickly as possible.
I do not want to derive each and every of my classes from `object',
and later edit all those `(object)' out when the classic classes will
effectively get deprecated.  Much easier and cleaner to remove that
`__metaclass__' line then.  Moreover, by using this `__metaclass__' line
in all my things, I do not risk obscure bugs because I forgot one of
these `object' derivation while I used more recent Python features.

Finally, to criticise myself, I'm not satisfied with the copyright line,
as it does not really state the copyright terms and conditions.  I'm
used to include that copyright in all my things, or almost, but I should
either retract the line, or state conditions, for it to be meaningful.
Currently, people sometimes write to me to clarify conditions -- which
are GPL usually, yet my real intent in such things is to favour freedom
for both programming and programmers, much more than spousing FSF
politics which do not address both with equal attention! :-)

-- 
Fran?ois Pinard   http://www.iro.umontreal.ca/~pinard



From jzgoda at gazeta.usun.pl  Sun Apr 18 03:54:19 2004
From: jzgoda at gazeta.usun.pl (Jarek Zgoda)
Date: Sun, 18 Apr 2004 09:54:19 +0200
Subject: Catching console output interactively
References: <mailman.688.1082120189.20120.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <pan.2004.04.18.07.54.13.687374@gazeta.usun.pl>

Dnia Fri, 16 Apr 2004 13:56:24 +0100, Byrom, R (Rob)  pisze:

> I'd like to be able to trap console output as the user writes
> interactively. For example if the user press the up or down keys I'd
> like to be able to catch this and return the last executed command (a
> bit like the bash_history idea). Can anyone point me in the right
> direction?

This is feature of GNU readline library, available on some Unix and
Unix-like systems. If you want to build something, that resembles Unix
shells, you can use class Cmd from cmd module. This class uses readline if
it is available on host system. I don't know, how it behaves on Windows
and if it uses capabilities of cmd.exe.

-- 
Jarek Zgoda
http://jpa.berlios.de/



From shalabh at cafepy.com  Tue Apr 13 21:55:42 2004
From: shalabh at cafepy.com (Shalabh Chaturvedi)
Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2004 18:55:42 -0700
Subject: Adding properties to objects
In-Reply-To: <3a8e83d2.0404131327.33dfe92a@posting.google.com>
References: <3a8e83d2.0404130906.2ea796e9@posting.google.com>
	<3a8e83d2.0404131327.33dfe92a@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <c5i5hk$csk$1@sea.gmane.org>

Matthew Barnes wrote:
> matthew at barnes.net (Matthew Barnes) wrote:
> 
>>Is it possible to add properties to objects dynamically?

You can add properties dynamically, but to the type (i.e. 'class') and 
not the instance (i.e. 'object'). For your example:

 >>> x = Foo()
 >>> def f(a,b=None): # a bogus getter, setter, deleter
...     print a,b
...
 >>> Foo.property = property(f,f,f)
 >>> x.property
<__main__.Foo object at 0x008F3CB0> None
 >>> x.property = 1
<__main__.Foo object at 0x008F3CB0> 1
 >>> del x.property
<__main__.Foo object at 0x008F3CB0> None
 >>>

This property will work for *all* instances of Foo.

> 
> So the impression I'm getting is that it's *possible* but not really
> intended, otherwise there would be better support in the core
> language.  Fair statement?

I don't see any reason why dynamically adding properties to the *type* 
is not intended. It's not complicated and works fine.

> I'll take that as a clue that there's probably a cleaner approach to
> the problem I'm trying to solve.

What is the problem you are trying to solve?

> The feedback was informative... thank you all!
>
> Matthew Barnes

HTH,
Shalabh




From mark at prothon.org  Fri Apr 23 19:36:15 2004
From: mark at prothon.org (Mark Hahn)
Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2004 16:36:15 -0700
Subject: Why we will use obj$func() often
References: <d2Uhc.22272$dZ1.1600@fed1read04> <84Uhc.22278$dZ1.5087@fed1read04>
	<mailman.927.1082665370.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<8AWhc.23114$dZ1.11070@fed1read04> <40883BFE.B381518A@alcyone.com>
	<27_hc.23801$dZ1.2716@fed1read04> <40887145.789A2FE8@alcyone.com>
	<7cki80hj976bia36lhf9er97v073o1pqvm@4ax.com>
	<w8dic.28710$dZ1.11206@fed1read04> <ulXiAls/KH1K089yn@the-wire.com>
	<lkfic.29767$dZ1.17301@fed1read04>
	<donn-66132E.15345723042004@nntp3.u.washington.edu>
Message-ID: <PLhic.30493$dZ1.22063@fed1read04>


"Donn Cave" <donn at u.washington.edu> wrote ...

> What you're doing there looks to me a bit like Objective
> CAML's ref type.  "a = ref 0" is a mutable container for an
> immutable integer.  It's just syntactic sugar for a mutable
> record;  the sugar is the assignment a := 1, and then there's
> some special dereference notation -- a := !a + 1, something
> like that, I forget.

I'm not doing anything nearly that complex.  &var just gives access to the
outer closure scope and directly accesses var in that scope, just like
accessing a global variable.  It isn't just syntax sugar for var[0] because
it has none of the list overhead associated with the var[0] kludge.  & just
tells the compiler where to find the variable, just like capitalized
variables in Prothon say to find them in the global space and .var says to
find var in self.

The whole point is to make things simpler, more readable, and more
efficient, but when people see the & symbol they somehow automatically think
it's complex.  Maybe my mind doesn't work like everyone else's.




From psXdaXsilva at esotericaX.ptX  Fri Apr  9 23:04:21 2004
From: psXdaXsilva at esotericaX.ptX (Paulo da Silva)
Date: Sat, 10 Apr 2004 04:04:21 +0100
Subject: Parsing cmd line args problem
In-Reply-To: <1081555827.877735@jubilee.esoterica.pt>
References: <1081555827.877735@jubilee.esoterica.pt>
Message-ID: <1081566459.617750@jubilee.esoterica.pt>

Paulo da Silva wrote:
I got it to work! Is there a better way?
> Hi.
> 
> I am writing my 1st. python program and I have the following problem:
> 
> I need to build a list of lists (or tuples) for every -i option.
> Example:
>     prog -i xxx -i yyy
>     and get a list like [[xxx,1],[yyy,1]]
> 
> I have tried this (callback) without any success:
> 
> ....
Here is what I did!
> def ixOpt(option,opt,value,parser):
      if parser.values.ix is None:
          parser.values.ix=[]
      parser.values.ix.append([value,1])
> 
> def parseArgs():
> ....
>     add_option("-i", "--include",
>                 action="callback",callback=ixOpt,
>                 type="string",dest="ix",
>                 help="Include file PATTERN",metavar="PATTERN")
> 
> Any help please?
> Thanks


From mail at markus-franz.de  Mon Apr 19 14:14:32 2004
From: mail at markus-franz.de (Markus Franz)
Date: Mon, 19 Apr 2004 20:14:32 +0200
Subject: Processes with timeout
Message-ID: <c614u6$ekq$04$1@news.t-online.com>

Hi.



My little Python script creates some child-processes depending on how much
command line options were given:



for myvalue in sys.argv[1:]:

    pid = os.fork()

    if pid == 0:
        do_something()  # placeholder for operations

        break

Now I do some difficult things inside each child process (above: function
do_something). These operations may take a long time.



How can I make it sure that every child-process terminates after x senconds
(wether it has finished or not)?
I don't know how to force a child-process to kill itself after x seconds. I
also don't know how to force a main process (parent) to kill a child-process
after x seconds.

I searched for something like:



for myvalue in sys.argv[1:]:

    pid = os.fork()

    if pid == 0:
        os.exit(timeout)

        do_something()  # placeholder for operations

        break

But there was nothing like this... Do you have an answer to my question???
Thank you.



Best regards



Markus Franz




From faassen at infrae.com  Mon Apr 26 07:51:06 2004
From: faassen at infrae.com (Martijn Faassen)
Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2004 13:51:06 +0200
Subject: EuroPython news april 26th
Message-ID: <mailman.1082983983.26909.clpa-moderators@python.org>

Hi there,

Back with your regular EuroPython reminder. EuroPython 2004 is to be 
held in G?teborg, Sweden on June 7-9. For more information, see here:

http://www.europython.org

The talk submission deadline is TODAY, monday the 26th. If you want to 
submit a talk and it's still today (the 26th of april :) when you're 
reading this, then go ahead and head here quickly:

http://www.europython.org/conferences/epc2004/info/

Hope to see you there!

Regards,

Martijn



From claird at lairds.com  Tue Apr  6 20:22:33 2004
From: claird at lairds.com (Cameron Laird)
Date: Wed, 07 Apr 2004 00:22:33 -0000
Subject: Capturing stdout incrementally
References: <dHFbc.17935$656.789@newssvr27.news.prodigy.com>
	<c4nci9$pp3$1@news.service.uci.edu> <uwu4szuga.fsf@fitlinxx.com>
Message-ID: <1076ie9gkemub5a@corp.supernews.com>

In article <uwu4szuga.fsf at fitlinxx.com>,
David Bolen  <db3l at fitlinxx.com> wrote:
>Josiah Carlson <jcarlson at uci.edu> writes:
>
>> > I am on Windows by the way, so the utilities are printing to the windows
>> > command shell.
			.
			.
			.
>In general, the only way to fix this is through the program being
>called, and not the program doing the calling.  In some cases, the
			.
		[still more
		true stuff]
			.
			.
>On Unix, a classic way around code for which you have no source is to
>run it under expect or some other pty-simulating code rather than a
>simple pipe with popen.  I'm not sure if there's a good pty/expectish
>module that works well under Windows (where simulating what a
>"console" is can be tougher).
			.
			.
			.
This press release just came today:
  VANCOUVER, BC - April 6, 2004 - ActiveState, a
  leading provider of professional tools for programmers,
  today announced Expect for Windows 1.0, releasing the
  real power of Expect to the Windows platform. ActiveState
  Expect for Windows is up-to-date, quality assured, and ...
<URL: http://activestate.com/Products/Expect/ >.

It's not just a press release, by the way;
it's a real product, and a good one, if
limited by the difficulties of Windows.
-- 

Cameron Laird <claird at phaseit.net>
Business:  http://www.Phaseit.net


From nhodgson at bigpond.net.au  Thu Apr 29 07:10:10 2004
From: nhodgson at bigpond.net.au (Neil Hodgson)
Date: Thu, 29 Apr 2004 11:10:10 GMT
Subject: Scintilla/SciTE - Python folding
References: <pan.2004.04.28.22.47.55.49097@phreaker.net>
Message-ID: <mo5kc.3696$TT.2265@news-server.bigpond.net.au>

Nuff Said:

> I normally open a file either with 'fold.on.open=1' set in
> the user's options file resp. I use 'toggle all folds' from
> the menu to fold everything in an unfolded file.
> But then, when I  unfold e.g. a class, everything inside the
> class gets unfolded, too. What I would need is something like
> 'unfold one level only'. Thought, that maybe the keystroke
> 'Ctrl-Keypad*' was meant for that, but it doesn't work that way.
>
> I am using Scintilla/SciTE 1.59 (Linux / compiled from the
> sources).

   There is currently no support for this in SciTE. Scintilla doesn't
implement the 'policy' layer of folding although most containers have copied
SciTE's commands (fold click, fold ctrl click and fold ctrl shift click).
The toggle all folds really only toggles the top level folds. If you want to
fold a class completely, from the unfolded state: fold ctrl click. Then you
can uncover one layer with fold click.

   There are lots of folding command variants that may be interesting, but
many of the ones that sound useful seem both language and context sensitive:
for example, a command for python that folds away function and method
bodies, but leaves those bodies unfolded internally so they can be viewed
with a single click.

   Neil




From fredrik at pythonware.com  Wed Apr 21 11:43:51 2004
From: fredrik at pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2004 17:43:51 +0200
Subject: Dollar sign ($) on foriegn keyboards? (prothon)
References: <mk3hc.13895$dZ1.10823@fed1read04><mailman.793.1082468190.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<IEghc.17557$dZ1.1035@fed1read04>
Message-ID: <c665ct$vkl$1@sea.gmane.org>

Mark Hahn wrote:

> Sorry if I annoy, but I've only posted a total of about 4 thread-starting
> messages.  The hundreds of messages have been replies.

when I posted my message, 25 of 48 messages visible in my newsreader
were Prothon-related.  that's a lot of noise, for all those who read comp.
lang.python because they're interested in Python.

> We do have active Prothon mailing lists, but no international members yet,
> which is why I asked this particular question here.

if you're serious about doing user research among Python users, you can do a
lot better than posting sporadic questions to a newsgroup.  only a small number
of all Python users reads comp.lang.python; only a small number of those that
read the newsgroup posts to it, and only a small number of those that posts are
contributing to your threads.  you can get a lot better results and generate a lot
less noise by doing a web-based questionaire, and post a single invitation here
and in other forums where Pythoneers gather.

> When I posted my first Prothon messages, I asked if I should stay away from
> c.l.p. out of courtesy.  I was specifically told to hang around here by
> several of the top Pythoneers

strangely enough, I don't see any top Pythoneers contributing to the Prothon
threads.  who are they?

</F>






From rogerb at rogerbinns.com  Sat Apr  3 15:22:05 2004
From: rogerb at rogerbinns.com (Roger Binns)
Date: Sat, 3 Apr 2004 12:22:05 -0800
Subject: An attempt at guessing the encoding of a (non-unicode) string
References: <c1sq60t7af0lgs1ovilg6ds220dkc0inpd@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <80j3k1-ijc.ln1@home.rogerbinns.com>

Christos TZOTZIOY Georgiou wrote:
> This could be implemented as a function in codecs.py (let's call it
> "wild_guess"), that is based on some pre-calculated data.

Windows already has a related function:

http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/default.asp?url=/library/en-us/intl/unicode_81np.asp

Read more about it here:

http://weblogs.asp.net/oldnewthing/archive/2004/03/24/95235.aspx

Roger




From kdahlhaus at yahoo.com  Thu Apr  8 08:55:53 2004
From: kdahlhaus at yahoo.com (Kevin Dahlhausen)
Date: 8 Apr 2004 05:55:53 -0700
Subject: GUI Frameworks in Python?
References: <mailman.102.1080629227.20120.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <283adf56.0404080455.bfa020a@posting.google.com>

I'm a big fan of pyFltk (http://pyfltk.sourceforge.net/):

from fltk import *

def theCancelButtonCallback(ptr):
    import sys
    sys.exit(0)

window = Fl_Window(100,100,200,90)
window.label(sys.argv[0])

button = Fl_Button(9,20,180,50)
button.label("Hello World")

button.callback(theCancelButtonCallback)

window.end()
window.show(len(sys.argv), sys.argv)
Fl.run()

Does not look like a win-32 app under win-32 though.


From jhouchin at texoma.net  Mon Apr 19 12:31:53 2004
From: jhouchin at texoma.net (Jimmie Houchin)
Date: Mon, 19 Apr 2004 16:31:53 GMT
Subject: CamelCase versus wide_names (Prothon)
References: <UHxfc.9323$dZ1.3740@fed1read04>
	<407ec022$0$54153$1b2cd167@news.wanadoo.nl>
	<roy-C4FD90.13444715042004@reader2.panix.com>
	<b9Afc.9345$dZ1.7703@fed1read04>
	<mailman.714.1082153054.20120.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <4083efb6.87338343@news.texoma.net>

On Fri, 16 Apr 2004 18:04:07 -0400, Jack Diederich <jack at performancedrivers.com>
wrote:

>On Thu, Apr 15, 2004 at 11:05:29AM -0700, Mark Hahn wrote:
[snip]
>> Now I'll go through all the Python method and var names and convert them all
>> to camelCase for Prothon.  It shouldn't be a problem for users since the
>> conversion is mechanical.
><blood curdling scream>Noooooo!</bcs>
>
>As others have pointed out down the thread, don't just go on the first
>several replies.
>
>I'm a wide_case_fanboy, having done mixedCase and wide_names over the last
>fifteen years.  It all comes down to personal preference, of course.  IMO
>mixedCase people tend to be younger, and younger people tend to be more
>zealous on newsgroups.

Age has little to do with this. It probably has more to do with the environment
in which the person learned programming or does their programming.

mixedCase is minimally as old as Smalltalk 76. mixedCase it "the" way you define
names in Smalltalk. So there is a minimum of 28+ years of mixedCase programming.
Some of the oldest programmers I know of are Smalltalkers. I do not even claim
that Smalltalk originated mixedCase

>I'm also a native English speaker, so this_looks_like_words while
>thisLooksAwkward.  I can read/write both and do depending on who is paying
>for the project, but I much prefer the underscores.  I can also type 100+
>words per minute (much faster than I can think) so I'm limited by figuring
>out what I want to do and not by hitting shift-minus.

Smalltalk was developed by and for native English speakers. It was aimed at
being syntactically suitable for children. Squeak is being used to teach
elementary school children across the world. http://www.squeak.org

Squeak is an open source Smalltalk 80 implementation which has progressed over
the years.

>Mixed case works fine on two word variables because twoWords are as easy
>to read as two_words.  But it gets painful forLongerVariableNames.
>I'm a big fan of descriptive names and since mixed case seems to discourage them
>when N > 2 that is enough reason to dislike it.

Smalltalk also is a big fan of descriptive names.

>My assertion that mixed case fanboys are young and therefore loud while
>at the same time being too inexperienced to know the difference is harsh and
>I'm sure a 65 year old programmer will post as a counter example.  They
>are called stereotypes because they work /most/ of the time, if they worked
>/all/ of the time they would just call them truths. *wink*

Most of your arguments show your preference which is fine. But I disagree that
they demonstrate for your preference. Smalltalker's experience disagrees, which
too is fine. Both are opinions. :)

Both sides can argue for nativeEnglish, descriptive_names, etc.
Plenty of experience on both sides regarding the above. Thus, it reduces it
primarily to personal preferences and opinions.

Smalltalk itself is a testimony it isn't just young programmers who prefer
mixedCase. I am not a 65 year old programmer but I do post a significant and
historical counter example. (Nor am I a kid.)

As I am a Smalltalk (Squeak) fan I tend to prefer mixedCase. But I would not
(do_not) have any problem with wide_names.

So far outside of preference, the biggest argument I've seen in this discussion
regarding wide_names is OS handling of file_names or modules. Smalltalk has the
distinct advantage of living in its own world (image). As such its development
of Classes and Objects live inside its own image and not on the file system.

Python on the other hand is file based and does have to deal more with OS
limitations and file_names. Whether or not that is truly much of an issue, I can
not say.

Nevertheless, I'll defer to the language designers and implementors.

Jimmie Houchin


From kfast at poczta.onet.pl  Tue Apr 13 13:56:37 2004
From: kfast at poczta.onet.pl (Jakub Fast)
Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2004 19:56:37 +0200
Subject: Does Python compete with Java?
Message-ID: <407C29D5.4050200@poczta.onet.pl>


Thanks for a quick reply!

> "LISP is over there ==>"
> 
> Saying, in effect, that it isn't Pythonic.

Ok, maybe i'm asking for it :), but -- why?

[i am willing to cease-and-desist asking any further if this is not a
welcome topic (like: we've discussed it fifty times by now, get a grip)]

Kuba





From cjw at sympatico.ca  Thu Apr 29 13:38:45 2004
From: cjw at sympatico.ca (Colin J. Williams)
Date: Thu, 29 Apr 2004 13:38:45 -0400
Subject: MATLAB2Python
In-Reply-To: <D2Xjc.28117$Qc.1080799@twister1.libero.it>
References: <D2Xjc.28117$Qc.1080799@twister1.libero.it>
Message-ID: <A4bkc.41287$OU.965595@news20.bellglobal.com>

Sarge wrote:
> Hi, everybody!
> I'm a moderately experienced programmer in Matlab, and looking for a 
> free computational language (Matlab is *REALLY* expensive for an 
> individual, like me).
> I came across Python (actually Scipy) and immediately felt 
> comfortable with the interface and syntax.
> I'm still a newbe, so, before attempting a serious work on it, I'd 
> like to hear any opinion about migration from Matlab to Python, and 
> also a rough comparison between these two languages.
> 
> Thanx in advance, and excuse me for my very bad English (I'm not a 
> native English speaker),
> 
> Sarge
Sarge,

You might like to take a look at PyMatrix.  It is still very much a 
development project, but I would appreciate your thoughts on the areas 
where it is deficient, as compared with MatLab.
http://www3.sympatico.ca/cjw/PyMatrix

Colin W.



From tdelaney at avaya.com  Thu Apr 29 19:24:06 2004
From: tdelaney at avaya.com (Delaney, Timothy C (Timothy))
Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2004 09:24:06 +1000
Subject: outline-style sorting algorithm
Message-ID: <338366A6D2E2CA4C9DAEAE652E12A1DE016BCCC1@au3010avexu1.global.avaya.com>

Thorsten Kampe wrote:

>>     def sorted (seq, cmp=None, key=None):
> 
> What is 'cmp=None' for?

To have the same semantics as 2.4 `sorted`. In 2.4 `list.sort` and
`sorted` can take either or both of `cmp` and `key`. If `key` is passed,
the keys are generated. If `cmp` is passed then that comparison function
is used to sort the *keys* (and only the keys). Of course, if `key` is
not passed then the keys used are the objects themselves.

>>         if key is None:
>>             return seq
>>         else:
>>             return [i[-1] for i in seq]
> 
> What is 'key=None' for? Is that for speeding up if someone wants to
> pass the indentity function (f(x)=x; lambda x: x)?

Nope - if no `key` function is passed, the objects themselves are used
in the sort.

>> Note that Python 2.4 will have DSU as a built-in idiom to `list.sort`
>> i.e. `list.sort(key=func)` but will be somewhat more efficient than
>> the above. Likewise there will be a new builtin `sorted` which has
>> exactly the same semantics as the above - it is stable, and it does
>> not ever compare the actual value if a key function is supplied -
>> only the key value (the above also compares the position, but that's
>> an implementation detail and has no visible effect).
> 
> If it has no visible effects than it would be useless. In my opinion
> it has the effect that two items that have the same func(x) stay in
> the same position as before. Is that desirable? Was that your goal?

Sorry - I didn't explain this well enough. In my implementation, I'm
using the indices as a termination condition. Since all the indices are
different integers, I'm guaranteed that the objects themselves will
never be compared. I don't actually need them there to ensure that the
sort is stable since the 2.3 sort method is itself stable.

In the 2.4 sort, the indices themselves are never used or needed - since
the sort is in C it's much easier to ensure that just the keys are
sorted without falling back to the object, but still easily maintain
where the object will end up. In Python code it's much simpler to just
stick them into the same tuple, but then you do need to ensure that the
object won't be used in the comparison.

Tim Delaney



From python at quixs.com  Tue Apr 27 11:31:20 2004
From: python at quixs.com (Lars Heuer)
Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2004 17:31:20 +0200
Subject: sending an object - twisted or what?
In-Reply-To: <c6llh1$1k8$1@sparta.btinternet.com>
References: <c6llh1$1k8$1@sparta.btinternet.com>
Message-ID: <86099257.20040427173120@quixs.com>

Hi Paul,

> I wish to send an object (only one class, but many objects)
> from python running on one computer to python on another.
> It will be over the internet, so needs to be 'secure'.

> Is twisted the only way to go, or is there something
> simpler for my app?  The code for twisted is fairly simple (I found

I don't know if it's simpler, but there's PyRO:
http://pyro.sourceforge.net/

Best regards,
Lars




From jcarlson at uci.edu  Thu Apr  1 15:57:35 2004
From: jcarlson at uci.edu (Josiah Carlson)
Date: Thu, 01 Apr 2004 12:57:35 -0800
Subject: Why '==' ??
In-Reply-To: <8089854e.0403312318.77d465f@posting.google.com>
References: <mailman.124.1080662765.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<8089854e.0403302319.1ab56af0@posting.google.com>
	<c4e4j9$dtp$1@news.service.uci.edu>
	<8089854e.0403312318.77d465f@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <c4hvu4$cf1$1@news.service.uci.edu>

> Not at all...but there you go... you need to reread what I said :-)

I've read what you said a few times.  You say that using '=' instead of 
'==' in boolean tests is unambiguous.  You also say that removing ':' 
is unambiguous.

I attempted to show you an example where such modifications /are/ ambiguous.


> Not at all.
> No need for a special case. Leave '==' with the same meaning as it
> currently has... but give '=' a dual meaning (as it has in reality)
> with the meaning obvious from context. In 'multi statements' (or
> whatever the correct phrase is to pre-empt any more otiose comments)
> require '==' so the syntax is clear.
> 
> Ie. If the meaning is obvious.... '=' can replace '=='... if it's
> not.. it can't...

The problem is that having multiple ways (syntactically) to do the exact 
same thing causes people to ask questions like "which one is better". 
There is an entire thread about this with regards to tabs vs. spaces in 
this newsgroup, and thousands of threads available as to where {} in 
C/C++ or Java should be located across the internet.

By saying "use it this way when it is unambiguous" and "use it this way 
when it is ambiguous", you are attempting to complicate the syntax of 
Python.  Why?  To save a few keystrokes.

"There should be one-- and preferably only one --obvious way to do it."
  - The Zen of Python, by Tim Peters


> The reason some people stated it was necessary was to allow another
> statement on the same line... which is what I said ';' was for.

I'm pretty sure the choice of ';' to end statements was to mirror 
various languages that people trying Python would likely be familliar 
with.  Considering these same languages have little to no use for the 
':' character (except for C++), its use in Python would be unambiguous.

Considering that in C, the following is a no-op, regardless of what a 
actually is...
if (a);

But in Python, different things /would/ actually happen based on the 
contents of a, so would introduce ambiguity for those people coming from 
a C/C++ background, needlessly.


> Sorry if you enjoy flaming newbies....... but in this case you'r a bit
> off beam Josian old bean.............

It wasn't a flame, it was an unkind post saying that your proposed 
syntax options were crap.  I'm fairly certain that Guido looked at quite 
a few options when trying to decide on proper syntaxes early on, so that 
he didn't make any major mistakes.  I am also fairly certain that the 
reason that your proposed syntax isn't what is currently done, is due to 
its ambiguity from the point of view of a C/C++ programmer.

  - Josiah


From theller at python.net  Wed Apr  7 14:04:35 2004
From: theller at python.net (Thomas Heller)
Date: Wed, 07 Apr 2004 20:04:35 +0200
Subject: painful debugging: techniques?
References: <WqKcc.5327$BF2.680616@news20.bellglobal.com>
	<uy8p77oa2.fsf@fitlinxx.com>
Message-ID: <u0zvk6ks.fsf@python.net>

David Bolen <db3l at fitlinxx.com> writes:

> "Humpty Dumpty" <oliver.schoenborn at utoronto.ca> writes:
>
>> I'm wondering if there are tricks people use to track down problems like
>> this.
>
> Perhaps not so much a trick as much as experience, but after working
> with Python a bit, you'll find that any time you see something like
> 'NoneType not a callable' (or really any type) it pretty much says
> that some object in your program should be a callable (function,
> method, etc..) but is None (or the other type) instead.  So in general
> I'd immediately start looking for uses of None in my code (or ways in
> which my code could generate None at runtime).

It may be that the OP forgot an explicit 'return' statement in a
function, so that the function returns None instead of a callable
object.  In this case, there is a chance that pychecked would have spit
out a warning.

Thomas




From michele.simionato at poste.it  Tue Apr 20 00:08:17 2004
From: michele.simionato at poste.it (Michele Simionato)
Date: 19 Apr 2004 21:08:17 -0700
Subject: Generic constructors and duplication of internal Python logic
References: <87ekqq41ya.fsf@pobox.com>
	<95aa1afa.0404150033.79a53e1a@posting.google.com>
	<87k70bzlak.fsf@pobox.com>
Message-ID: <95aa1afa.0404192008.3a9da567@posting.google.com>

jjl at pobox.com (John J. Lee) wrote in message news:<87k70bzlak.fsf at pobox.com>...
> michele.simionato at poste.it (Michele Simionato) writes:
> > Have you thought of performing the checks in the __call__ method
> > of a custom metaclass?
> 
> No.  How would that help?

I had in mind something like that:

class _WithConstructorChecked(type): # helper metaclass
    def __call__(cls, *args, **kw):
        assert len(args)<=2, "%s called with more than 2 args" % cls
        assert kw.has_key("kw"), "%s needs a 'kw=' argument" % cls 
        return super(_WithConstructorChecked,cls).__call__(*args,**kw)

class WithConstructorChecked(object): # mixin class
    __metaclass__ = _WithConstructorChecked

class C(WithConstructorChecked):   
    def __init__(self, *args, **kw):
        pass

c=C(1,2,kw=3) # ok; try different signatures to get assertion errors

In this example the mixin class WithConstructorChecked ensures that C is 
called with at least two positional arguments and a keyword argument named 
'kw'. The code of class C is not touched at all, you just add 
WithConstructorChecked to the list of its bases.

Is that what you are looking for?


               Michele Simionato


From missive at frontiernet.net  Sun Apr  4 22:57:52 2004
From: missive at frontiernet.net (Lee Harr)
Date: Mon, 05 Apr 2004 02:57:52 GMT
Subject: db paramstyle for arrays
Message-ID: <QW3cc.404$2k4.49@news02.roc.ny>


Is there a special DB API style for inserting array values in
to a database?

In postgres, the values needs to end up like ARRAY[1, 2, 3]
so I am just putting the word ARRAY in to the query string
like this:

q = "INSERT INTO foo VALUES (ARRAY%(bar)s)" % {'bar': [1, 2, 3]}

That works, but it seems to me there may be a better way.

Thanks for your time.



From cm at leetspeak.org  Tue Apr 27 20:22:55 2004
From: cm at leetspeak.org (Michael Walter)
Date: Wed, 28 Apr 2004 02:22:55 +0200
Subject: Ideas for Python 3
In-Reply-To: <onrt805i8q1qv5amhk06pqpe8umm9i7mhc@4ax.com>
References: <s1pt80h988ucqd8vbrd3occhpagtpssigg@4ax.com>
	<onrt805i8q1qv5amhk06pqpe8umm9i7mhc@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <c6mtgm$e09bj$1@ID-88904.news.uni-berlin.de>

David MacQuigg wrote:
 > [...]
> It took me a long time to realize that lamdas have only one advantage
> over named functions - they can be crammed into a tight space.  Here
> is an example:
> 
> L = [(lambda x: x**2), (lambda x:x**3), (lambda x:x**4), (lambda
> x:x**5)]
> 
> If the purpose is to save space, wouldn't this be better as:
> 
> L = [:x:x**2, :x:x**3, :x:x**4 :x:x**5]
   L = map(lambda x: lambda y: x**y,range(2,6))

Almost. Or write mapc ("map currying") and have:

   L = mapc(pow,range(2,6))

Shorter than your example, less mistake-prone, no obvious lambda at all ;)

Cheers,
Michael


From stephendotboulet at motorola_._com  Fri Apr 16 14:46:19 2004
From: stephendotboulet at motorola_._com (Stephen Boulet)
Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2004 13:46:19 -0500
Subject: Error copying a file
In-Reply-To: <c5mbfv$qc4$1@absinth.dialog.net.pl>
References: <c5ka45$c8v$1@newshost.mot.com>
	<c5mbfv$qc4$1@absinth.dialog.net.pl>
Message-ID: <c5p9ph$7h9$1@newshost.mot.com>

Krzysztof Stachlewski wrote:
> Stephen Boulet wrote:
> 
>> I know that the name of this file is somewhat pathological, but this 
>> if weird:
>>
>>  >>> print myfile
>> E:\Fritz Reiner\Rimsky-Korsakov--Scheherazade.Debussy--La Mer\01 
>> Symphonic Suite after "A Thousand and One Nights" - The Sea and 
>> Sinbad's Ship.ogg
> 
> 
> It seems you are on Windows box.
> What filesystem do you use?
> I have just tried to create such a file, but the filesystem (NTFS)
> refuses to use " as part of the name.

I'm on win2000. The file is on a CD I burned, and I wanted to copy it to 
  a file name that doesn't have any quotation marks in it. The problem 
is that I can't reference the file to begin with. The command:

    shutil.copy2(myfile,r'D:\foo.ogg')

can't use the string held in myfile, although os.listdir('directory on 
CD') contains it as the first entry.

It would be nice if I could referene the file in a way that would not 
cause the copy command to fail.

Stephen


From peter at engcorp.com  Wed Apr 14 12:10:17 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2004 12:10:17 -0400
Subject: Difficulty Finding Python Developers
In-Reply-To: <65cbc3dd.0404140641.3501fde8@posting.google.com>
References: <65cbc3dd.0404140641.3501fde8@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <407D6269.3090909@engcorp.com>

Paul Morrow wrote:

> We've worked hard to convince our company to migrate our core
> applications to Python, and now we're looking for a Python developer
> in Atlanta to handle a short-term (approx. 3 month) project.  But our
> initial searches have been fairly unsuccessful.  We haven't actually
> posted a job on Monster, but we have been talking with various
> headhunters in our area and they don't have many resumes that show
> Python experience.  An so now, of course, mgt is wondering whether
> selecting Python was a mistake.
> 
> As anyone had a similar experience?  Suggestions?

Don't hire "Python programmers".  I successfully staffed a team
with over twenty five developers over the last five years, without
once hiring anyone who was a "Python programmer".  I did make an
attempt to hire people who were good at programming, who had
diverse backgrounds, strong communication skills, brains between
their ears, and so on.  Only one of the people hired, as I recall,
had actually used Python (and then only briefly) prior to working
for me.

In only a couple of cases (where they turned out not to fit the
above description too well) did anyone take more than about a week
to become productive in Python, maybe two or three weeks max.

I would actually suggest, however, that instead of hiring someone
new for the position, take one of your talented existing programmers
and have him or her learn Python while starting on this project.
If the project goes well, you can more easily make the case for
doing other projects with Python, and you might in the meantime
have found some actual "Python programmers".  I still wouldn't
hire them, however, if they didn't fit the afore-mentioned criteria...

-Peter


From wl at flexis.de  Thu Apr  8 08:20:29 2004
From: wl at flexis.de (Wolfgang Langner)
Date: Thu, 08 Apr 2004 14:20:29 +0200
Subject: performance issue
In-Reply-To: <mailman.444.1081419641.20120.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.444.1081419641.20120.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <c53g2c$2fs$1@news.lf.net>

Hello,

>  Is there any obvious performance gain between 2.3 and 2.1 release? Is 
> this information available on the web site?

Yes.


From ba-admin at thekompany.com  Fri Apr 23 23:19:01 2004
From: ba-admin at thekompany.com (ba-admin at thekompany.com)
Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2004 20:19:01 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Your message to Ba awaits moderator approval
Message-ID: <20040424031901.7F70D3FA8F@valentine.thekompany.com>

Your mail to 'Ba' with the subject

    Re: Incoming Fax

Is being held until the list moderator can review it for approval.

The reason it is being held:

    Post by non-member to a members-only list

Either the message will get posted to the list, or you will receive
notification of the moderator's decision.



From deetsNOSPAM at web.de  Tue Apr 20 11:44:46 2004
From: deetsNOSPAM at web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 17:44:46 +0200
Subject: Rekall configure probs
References: <kobhc.34911$Y%6.4526040@wards.force9.net>
Message-ID: <c63gvt$7n4v4$1@ID-111250.news.uni-berlin.de>

Tony of Judicious wrote:

> Not sure if this is right ng but i'm trying to install Rekall on Suse 9
> prof
> 
> During ./configure i get the msg:
> 
> checking for X... configure: error: Can't find X includes. Please check
> your installation and add the correct paths!
> 
> Any idea what it is looking for?

the x window include files? Whatever it needs them for - nstall the X devel
packages.

-- 
Regards,

Diez B. Roggisch


From nemesis at nowhere.invalid  Wed Apr 14 16:28:59 2004
From: nemesis at nowhere.invalid (Nemesis)
Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2004 20:28:59 GMT
Subject: Pygame
References: <c5jdv2$s4$1@orkan.itea.ntnu.no>	<xZydnfgqeaiK3ODdRVn-tw@powergate.ca>
	<c5jgvh$2m5$1@orkan.itea.ntnu.no>
	<mailman.620.1081958099.20120.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <hmvj5c.pv1.ln@nemesis.homeinvalid>

Mentre io pensavo ad una intro simpatica "Jakub Fast" scriveva:

> pygame (and sdl) are lgpl licensed and as such they are not 
> commercial-friendly.

the lgpl license _is_ commercial-friendly.

-- 
Being normal is driving me crazy.

 |\ |       |HomePage   : http://nem01.altervista.org
 | \|emesis |XPN (my nr): http://xpn.altervista.org



From travis at enthought.com  Wed Apr 21 17:40:24 2004
From: travis at enthought.com (Travis N. Vaught)
Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2004 16:40:24 -0500
Subject: ANN: SciPy 0.3 Released
Message-ID: <4086EA48.4080105@enthought.com>

Greetings,

SciPy 0.3 has been released and binaries are available from the 
scipy.org site.

http://www.scipy.org

Changes since the 0.1 version (0.1 enjoyed a wide release, there was a 
version 0.2 that had limited exposure) include the following:

 - general improvements: Added utility functions for constructing arrays 
by concatenation, intended mainly for command-line use. Added bmat 
constructor for easy creation of block matrices. Added mat constructor 
for constructing matrices (where * is matrix multiplication). Added many 
PIL utility functions so that if the PIL is installed, image loading, 
saving, and other operations are available. Added scipy.info, which 
handles dynamic docstrings and class help better than python's help command.

 - documentation: much improved

 - sparse: superLU upgraded to 3.0

 - optimize: Added non-linear conjugate gradient algorithm. Improvements 
to BFGS algorithm and Wolfe-condition line-search. Added two CONSTRAINED 
optimization techniques. Added simulated annealing and brute-force 
optimization strategies and Powell's method. Added many very good 1-D 
root-finding routines.

 - stats: Added many statistical distributions. Many continuous and 
discrete random variables are available with a simple mechanism for 
adding new ones. Added several statistical tests.

 - special: Added MANY new special functions. |general_function| renamed 
to |vectorize| and moved to scipy_base. Improved the way domain errors 
are handled (user specified display of problems). More tests on special 
functions added.

 - fftpack: replaced with fftpack2--can optionally be configured to 
support djbfft

 - io: Reading of MATLAB .mat files (version 4 and 5) supported. Writing 
version 4 .mat files supported. Added very flexible and general_purpose 
text file reader. Added shelving save operation to save variables into 
an importable module. Routines for reading and writing fortran-records.

 - linalg: Linear algebra is greatly improved over SciPy 0.1. ATLAS is 
now optional (but encouraged). Most lapack functions have simplified 
interfaces (all lapack and blas available). Matrix exponentials and 
other matrix functions added.

 - signal: Added support for filter design and LTI system analysis.

 - xplt: Updated xplt to use newer pygist so that Windows platform is 
supported. Addition of several plotting types.

 - integrate: added another ODE integrator. Added romberg integration 
and several other integration approaches.


The complete release notes can be found here:

http://www.scipy.org/download/scipy_release_notes_0.3.html


You'll also notice that scipy.org is now a spanking new Plone portal 
(http://www.plone.org -- keep up the good work, plone folks).

This is the first binary release in a long time and we hope to increase 
the frequency to every 6 months or so.

If you'd like to follow or join the community, you can subscribe to the 
mailing lists here:

http://www.scipy.org/mailinglists/

Best Regards,

Travis


BTW SciPy is:
-------------
SciPy is an open source library of scientific tools for Python. SciPy 
supplements the popular Numeric module, gathering a variety of high 
level science and engineering modules together as a single package.

SciPy includes modules for graphics and plotting, optimization, 
integration, special functions, signal and image processing, genetic 
algorithms, ODE solvers, and others.




From donn at u.washington.edu  Fri Apr 30 15:24:12 2004
From: donn at u.washington.edu (Donn Cave)
Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2004 12:24:12 -0700
Subject: Is classless worth consideration
References: <g9k090lhocd1nbd7g230br6ooub113hjt6@4ax.com>
	<69cbbef2.0404290259.fd8d71c@posting.google.com>
	<MbWdnTRxROYvZg3dRVn-uw@powergate.ca>
	<69cbbef2.0404291209.7a98a799@posting.google.com>
	<boydnb9qfrqWJQzdRVn-gw@powergate.ca>
	<8ef9bea6.0404292307.66b78b83@posting.google.com>
	<84Kdnfu3OoN4oA_dRVn-vg@powergate.ca>
	<8ef9bea6.0404301017.575c91d7@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <donn-74ECED.12241230042004@nntp1.u.washington.edu>

In a similar vein, I have noticed that clothing often comes
with pockets, yet this essentially duplicates the functionality
of shoes, which are also items of clothing that one puts things
in.

We can certainly reduce the Baroque complexity of our lifestyle
if we can eliminate this gratuitous superfluity and rather than
pockets, simply append shoes to our clothes where needed to
store a few essentials.  Why, you could store soup, all kinds
of stuff in a shoe that you'd hesitate to put in a pocket.
Think outside the box!

   Donn Cave, donn at u.washington.edu


From corey.coughlin at attbi.com  Sun Apr  4 21:18:31 2004
From: corey.coughlin at attbi.com (Corey Coughlin)
Date: 4 Apr 2004 18:18:31 -0700
Subject: GUI Frameworks in Python?
References: <mailman.102.1080629227.20120.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <a8623416.0404041718.7d50f878@posting.google.com>

One I've always meant to look into more is PyUI, a gui framework built
on the pygame library.  Always looked kind of cool.  Anyone have any
experience with it?



"Hugh Macdonald" <HughMacdonald at brokenpipefilms.com> wrote in message news:<mailman.102.1080629227.20120.python-list at python.org>...
> I've recently been trying out various different GUI frameworks in Python and
> was wondering if I could get your input on the pros and cons of the
> different ones...
> 
> wxPython: I love the programming side of wxPython, but I find it's just so
> slow to initialise in the first place.
> 
> Tkinter: While it's fast to load up, the syntax has never really appealed to
> me
> 
> GTK: Unknown - I'm looking into it today
> 
> Qt: I have yet to manage to install it on my system
> 
> Anything else?
> 
> 
> Hugh Macdonald


From matthew at barnes.net  Wed Apr 14 01:59:16 2004
From: matthew at barnes.net (Matthew Barnes)
Date: 13 Apr 2004 22:59:16 -0700
Subject: Adding properties to objects
References: <3a8e83d2.0404130906.2ea796e9@posting.google.com>	<3a8e83d2.0404131327.33dfe92a@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.599.1081907583.20120.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3a8e83d2.0404132159.12e23a55@posting.google.com>

Shalabh Chaturvedi <shalabh at cafepy.com> wrote...

> You can add properties dynamically, but to the type (i.e. 'class') and 
> not the instance (i.e. 'object'). For your example:
> 
>  >>> x = Foo()
>  >>> def f(a,b=None): # a bogus getter, setter, deleter
> ...     print a,b
> ...
>  >>> Foo.property = property(f,f,f)
>  >>> x.property
>  <__main__.Foo object at 0x008F3CB0> None
>  >>> x.property = 1
>  <__main__.Foo object at 0x008F3CB0> 1
>  >>> del x.property
>  <__main__.Foo object at 0x008F3CB0> None
>  >>>
> 
> This property will work for *all* instances of Foo.

Right.  I may not have been clear, but I was trying to add different
properties to different *instances* of Foo.

> What is the problem you are trying to solve?

Here's basically what I was trying to do:

class Foo(object):

    def __init__(self, sourcedict):
        # sourcedict is a dictionary of objects having get() and set()
        # methods.  Nevermind where sourcedict comes from.  The point
        # is that different instances get different sourcedict's.
        for name, object in sourcedict.items():
            # This doesn't do what I had hoped for.
            # My thinking was flawed on several levels.
            self.__dict__['name'] = property(object.get, object.set)

So suppose "sourcedict" has some object named "bar".  The idea was to
create properties on-the-fly based on the contents of "sourcedict",
such that:

>>> x = Foo(sourcedict)  # Given this...
>>> x.bar                # would invoke sourcedict['bar'].get()
>>> x.bar = 1            # would invoke sourcedict['bar'].set(1)

I've since realized that properties are not the right approach for
something like this, and that I would be better off with a more
straight-forward approach using custom Foo.__getattr__ and
Foo.__setattr__ methods (seems obvious now that I've simplified the
problem description :-).

Matthew Barnes


From herrn at gmx.net  Sun Apr  4 12:38:54 2004
From: herrn at gmx.net (Marco Herrn)
Date: 4 Apr 2004 16:38:54 GMT
Subject: __import__() with packages
References: <c4p3f2$2j1tnb$1@ID-165840.news.uni-berlin.de>
	<1070cph9hedq9ee@news.supernews.com>
	<c4pdjv$2lnh1i$1@ID-165840.news.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <c4pdmu$2lnh1i$2@ID-165840.news.uni-berlin.de>

Sorry, accidently sent out the unfinished message.

On 2004-04-04, John Roth <newsgroups at jhrothjr.com> wrote:
> m = __import__("spam.eggs")
> eggs = spam.eggs
>
> This will probably also work:
>
> eggs = __import__("spam.eggs").eggs

Thanks,
but in my application I read the names of the modules from a file,
so I do not know them when writing (in this case I wouldn't know the
name 'eggs'). Since the solution from Paul works for me, I will use
that.

Marco


-- 
Marco Herrn             herrn at gmx.net
(GnuPG/PGP-signed and crypted mail preferred)
Key ID: 0x94620736



From me at privacy.net  Mon Apr 26 08:40:23 2004
From: me at privacy.net (Duncan Booth)
Date: 26 Apr 2004 12:40:23 GMT
Subject: Using descriptors to wrap methods
References: <408cfa5a$0$28920$61fed72c@news.rcn.com>
Message-ID: <Xns94D78A3EAA830duncanrcpcouk@127.0.0.1>

"Edward C. Jones" <edcjones at erols.com> wrote in 
news:408cfa5a$0$28920$61fed72c at news.rcn.com:

> Here is a stripped-down version of a Python Cookbook recipe. Is there a 
> simpler, more Pythonical, natural way of doing this?

Here's a simpler way of doing the same thing:

>>> def MethodWrapper(f):
        def wrapper(self, *args, **kw):
            print 'pre'
            result = f(self, *args, **kw)
            print 'post'
            return result
        return wrapper

>>> class C(object):
        def f(self, arg):
            print 'in f'
            return arg+1
        f = MethodWrapper(f)

        
>>> c = C()
>>> print c.f(1)
pre
in f
post
2
>>>

Or if you want pre and post code customisable you might try:

>>> def MethodWrapper(f, pre=None, post=None):
        def wrapper(self, *args, **kw):
            if pre: pre(self, *args, **kw)
            result = f(self, *args, **kw)
            if post: post(self, result, *args, **kw)
            return result
        return wrapper

>>> class C(object):
        def pre_f(self, arg):
            print 'pre',arg
        def post_f(self, res, arg):
            print 'post',res,arg
        def f(self, arg):
            print 'in f'
            return arg+1
        f = MethodWrapper(f, pre_f, post_f)

        
        
>>> c = C()
>>> c.f(1)
pre 1
in f
post 2 1
2
>>> 

I don't know if you could call it Pythonic though.


From __peter__ at web.de  Wed Apr 21 18:34:06 2004
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2004 00:34:06 +0200
Subject: Optimizing a text statistics function
References: <c661pe$tie$1@f1node01.rhrz.uni-bonn.de>
	<c669k5$c52$07$1@news.t-online.com> <4086efbc$1@nntp0.pdx.net>
Message-ID: <c66ssv$r0c$01$1@news.t-online.com>

Scott David Daniels wrote:

> Peter Otten wrote:
>> Nickolay Kolev wrote:
> Playing along, simply because it's fun.
> 
>> def main(filename):
>>     ...
> 
> #>     words = file(filename).read().translate(tr).split()
> #>     histogram = {}
> #>     wordCount = len(words)
> #>     for word in words:
> #>         histogram[word] = histogram.get(word, 0) + 1
> 
> Better not to do several huge string allocs above (I suspect).
> This method lets you to work on files too large to read into memory:
> 
>        wordCount = 0
>        histogram = {}
> 
>        for line in file(filename):
>            words = line.translate(tr).split()
>            wordCount += len(words)
>            for word in words:
>                histogram[word] = histogram.get(word, 0) + 1
> 
>>     ...

In theory you are right, in practice most text files are tiny compared to
the amount of RAM available on a fairly recent machine.

However, I readily admit that your variant plays nicely with *very* large
files as long as they have newlines, and, contrary to my expectation, is
even a bit faster with my adhoc testcase, a 670,000 byte 8,700 line HTML
file.

Peter


From ecastro at dbbf.ulpgc.es  Thu Apr 22 06:58:20 2004
From: ecastro at dbbf.ulpgc.es (Enrique Castro)
Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2004 11:58:20 +0100
Subject: ANN: SciPy 0.3 Released
In-Reply-To: <mailman.880.1082583661.20120.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.880.1082583661.20120.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <c688i2$8he7m$1@ID-226476.news.uni-berlin.de>

Travis N. Vaught wrote:
> SciPy 0.3 has been released and binaries are available from the 
> scipy.org site.
> 
> http://www.scipy.org
> 
Hi,
What's the status of Chaco, the plotting package?
Is it now included in SciPy download?

I have tried to follow the chaco link in Enthought's site 
(http://www.enthought.com/) but it seems not working

Tanks
Enrique Castro



From corey.coughlin at attbi.com  Mon Apr 12 13:55:55 2004
From: corey.coughlin at attbi.com (Corey Coughlin)
Date: 12 Apr 2004 10:55:55 -0700
Subject: A new OS
References: <107k441hitt2ld9@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <a8623416.0404120955.520215f2@posting.google.com>

I think it sounds like a great idea.  I'd ultimately like to go a
direction like that at some point.  One of the biggest problems with
existing operating systems (like Windows or Linux) is that they are
for the most part built on C, which then dictates what the low level
calls look like, the memory architecture, and so on.  Writing an OS in
Python could give you a new perspective on mapping a high level
architecture onto a machine.  Imagine, for instance, an OS
architecture with a genuine object hierarchy, where low level details
get abstracted into a machine level that can be swapped out to conform
to different processor architectures, where garbage collection is an
OS service, and maybe the filesystem is actually an object persistance
system, so every file is actually an object with type instead of a bag
of bytes, and then imagine how easy it would be to add advanced
indexing a la Chandler to it.  Could we then distribute programs as
only python bytecode, getting platform independence?  Would it be
easier adding security using higher levels of abstraction?  How about
creating a complete network OS?  Would that be easier in python?  In
general, as you abstract complex os services into simpler python code,
would it be easier to expand the capabilities of your os?  I can't
imagine that it would be harder.  It could be quite an interesting
project, if conducted with the aim of not just making yet another
generic operating system, but with the aim of creating a truly
pythonic OS.  That would be great.




"A Evans" <ae> wrote in message news:<107k441hitt2ld9 at corp.supernews.com>...
> Hello Everyone I am working towards starting a project developing a new
> Operating System using the Python language (or a derivative thereof). As
> recommended on this forum I am asking if people are interested in something
> like this and ask who would be willing to support a project this large.
> 
> Any and all ideas are welcome this message is just to see what kind of
> support this project would recieve
> 
> Cheers
> 
> Andrew


From michele.simionato at poste.it  Thu Apr 29 08:34:11 2004
From: michele.simionato at poste.it (Michele Simionato)
Date: 29 Apr 2004 05:34:11 -0700
Subject: Is classless worth consideration
References: <g9k090lhocd1nbd7g230br6ooub113hjt6@4ax.com>	<1090r77d97k0tb1@news.supernews.com>
	<mailman.104.1083210274.25742.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <95aa1afa.0404290434.544a37d6@posting.google.com>

Michael <mogmios at mlug.missouri.edu> wrote in message news:<mailman.104.1083210274.25742.python-list at python.org>...
> Is there any way to to call a class method without making an instance of 
> that class? 

Yes, with classmethods and staticmethods and more in general with
custom descriptors.

> To me that would be useful because you could mimic modules 
> without having to create a sepperate file. Or is there already a way to 
> do that?

You can dynamically generate a module:

>>> from types import ModuleType # in Python 2.3
>>> mymodule=ModuleType("mymodule","This a dynamic module")
>>> help(mymodule)
Help on module mymodule:

NAME
    mymodule - This a dynamic module

FILE
    (built-in)

You can populate the module with setattr or by hand:

>>> mymodule.a=1
>>> mymodule.a
1

HTH,
           Michele Simionato


From richie at entrian.com  Thu Apr  1 07:02:10 2004
From: richie at entrian.com (Richie Hindle)
Date: Thu, 01 Apr 2004 13:02:10 +0100
Subject: GUI Frameworks in Python?
In-Reply-To: <6ee58e07.0403311125.52f0acf0@posting.google.com>
References: <mailman.102.1080629227.20120.python-list@python.org>	<b5idnd8_MLmQg_Td4p2dnA@powergate.ca>	<cm9ac.8115$lt2.6537@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>	<FJGdnUG9P87T4fTdRVn-uQ@powergate.ca>
	<mailman.117.1080656311.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<qYCdna1kjd3fBPTdRVn-tw@powergate.ca>
	<6ee58e07.0403311125.52f0acf0@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <2v0o60ts31jnciptpm9biujtvrkqfjvep3@4ax.com>


[Lothar]
> You and all others miss one important number: What a harddisk are you
> using ?

Good point.  And, "how fragmented is it?"  And (to a lesser extent) "how
invasive is your virus scanner?"  "Very" to both in my case, I think.  Thanks
for pointing out that there's more to performance than GHz.

-- 
Richie Hindle
richie at entrian.com




From bh at intevation.de  Mon Apr  5 11:19:03 2004
From: bh at intevation.de (Bernhard Herzog)
Date: Mon, 05 Apr 2004 17:19:03 +0200
Subject: Working with bytes.
References: <406EE606.4000604@yahoo.com>
	<mailman.308.1081013778.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<406f33b6$0$30963$3a628fcd@reader1.nntp.hccnet.nl>
	<wzk70vrbnv.fsf@Ordesa.local>
	<4071273d$0$132$3a628fcd@reader1.nntp.hccnet.nl>
	<wz8yhaa3u2.fsf@ordesa.cs.uu.nl>
Message-ID: <s9z4qrywizc.fsf@salmakis.intevation.de>

Piet van Oostrum <piet at cs.uu.nl> writes:

> Yes, you could in principle use 94 characters. There is a scheme called
> btoa that encodes 4 bytes into 5 ASCII characters by using BASE85, but I
> have never seen a Python implementation of it. It shouldn't be difficult,
> however. 

Is that the same as PDF/PostScript Ascii85?  If so, there's an
implementation somewhere in reportlab, IIRC.

   Bernhard

-- 
Intevation GmbH                                 http://intevation.de/
Skencil                                http://sketch.sourceforge.net/
Thuban                                  http://thuban.intevation.org/


From martin at v.loewis.de  Tue Apr 27 16:29:59 2004
From: martin at v.loewis.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?=22Martin_v=2E_L=F6wis=22?=)
Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2004 22:29:59 +0200
Subject: locale.CODESET / different in python shell and scripts
In-Reply-To: <pan.2004.04.26.23.23.56.718739@phreaker.net>
References: <pan.2004.04.26.23.23.56.718739@phreaker.net>
Message-ID: <c6mfs1$99j$01$1@news.t-online.com>

Nuff Said wrote:
> When I type the following code in the interactive python shell,
> I get 'UTF-8'; but if I put the code into a Python script and
> run the script - in the same terminal on my Linux box in which
> I opened the python shell before -, I get 'ANSI_X3.4-1968'.
> 
> How does that come?

Because, for some reason, locale.setlocale() is called in your
interactive startup, but not in the normal startup.

It is uncertain why this happens - setlocale is not normally
called automatically; not even in interactive mode. Perhaps
you have created your own startup file?

Regards,
Martin



From __peter__ at web.de  Sat Apr  3 16:22:47 2004
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Sat, 03 Apr 2004 23:22:47 +0200
Subject: gettext and the interpreter
References: <pan.2004.04.03.20.32.16.832647@web.de>
Message-ID: <c4n9v7$u4i$07$1@news.t-online.com>

Hans-Joachim Widmaier wrote:

> Recently I wanted to do some debugging using one module of my first
> Python program using the gettext module. I just didn't find a way to
> disable the interpreter binding the last result to _, which ought to
> be (and stay) a function.
> 
> Anybody got an idea how to do it?

Try redefining sys.displayhook, e. g.:

>>> import sys, __builtin__
>>> def myhook(value):
...     if value is not None:
...             __builtin__.__last__ = value
...             sys.stdout.write("%r\n" % value)
...
>>> sys.displayhook = myhook

Now the last non-None value will be stored in __last__ instead of _:

>>> 1
1
>>> _
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
NameError: name '_' is not defined
>>> __last__
1

Peter



From peter at engcorp.com  Sat Apr 24 13:36:35 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Sat, 24 Apr 2004 13:36:35 -0400
Subject: AOP use cases
In-Reply-To: <uekqdjn7k.fsf@broadpark.no>
References: <84fc4588.0404140106.3fa0c55@posting.google.com>
	<slrnc7q1ss.1aa.alf@largo.fayauffre.org>
	<cb035744.0404141130.170f51c4@posting.google.com>
	<slrnc7sgat.vp.alf@largo.fayauffre.org>
	<cb035744.0404160442.2f0b1661@posting.google.com>
	<0pydnSB4WYuieuLdRVn-hQ@powergate.ca> <uekqdjn7k.fsf@broadpark.no>
Message-ID: <TYqdnZRX9Og5OBfdRVn-sA@powergate.ca>

Tor Iver Wilhelmsen wrote:

> Peter Hansen <peter at engcorp.com> writes:
> 
>>I would be very interested to hear some real-world and real useful
>>use cases for AOP as well.  So far, the logging example seems to
>>be put forth so often that I'm starting to suspect that's the
>>*only* "useful" thing people are doing with it. :-)
> 
> A couple of other examples:
> 
> - Implementing Singleton as an aspect which states that calling
>   set*(self, value) methods on a set of classes should raise an
>   AttributeError - or just do nothing
> - Measure execution time of a method by wrapping an aspect-"advice"
>   around it

Hmm.... maybe I need to clarify what I mean by "real-world".

To mean, the term means something like "drawn from actual, working
code in real projects implemented to achieve useful, practical
results", as opposed to what, so far, pretty much everyone who
proposes examples seems to think, which is more like "potentially
interesting theoretical ideas which sound kinda cool"...

Has anyone used AOP in a real project, which wasn't a project just
to demonstrate AOP?  For anything other than the logging example?
If so, what was the specific value provided by AOP, and can you
post a snippet or two of code which demonstrates the cleaner structure
provided by the clear separation of concerns which you believe comes
from AOP practices?  And thank you. :-)

(And I'll reject at this point examples which are no different than
how any number of us use Python to wrap existing methods in
useful ways, such as the synchronization scheme presented earlier
in this thread.  Why?  Because if that's the best you can do, then
I don't think AOP deserves to be recognized in the Python world as
anything other than a fancy buzzword for something which we should
all be doing already as we ensure our code is decoupled and has little
duplication.  That probably means your example will come from the
Java world, or elsewhere, but I wouldn't reject it out of hand just
because it's in Python.)

-Peter


From mhammond at keypoint.com.au  Fri Apr 30 08:20:00 2004
From: mhammond at keypoint.com.au (Mark Hammond)
Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2004 22:20:00 +1000
Subject: COM Interface Question
In-Reply-To: <40923157$1_3@newspeer2.tds.net>
References: <9e5ea2c4.0404291130.72e81c2e@posting.google.com>
	<c6s5vn$1lv9$1@arachne.labyrinth.net.au>
	<40923157$1_3@newspeer2.tds.net>
Message-ID: <c6tg9r$fh5$1@arachne.labyrinth.net.au>

Olaf Meding wrote:

> Mark
> 
> The IDL shows a uuid for the IUser interface (bf79...).  How would I use
> IDispatch() to create an IUser as required by the put user call?
> 
> Here are excerpts from the IDL file:

There is nothing in that IDL that implies it can be created by an 
IDispatch call - it is just describing the interface.  Generally a 
CoClass entry in the IDL indicates it can be publically created, but you 
haven't shown that - but in that case, the makepy code will include a 
comment telling you the progid, so I doubt it exists.

Surely there is documentation or a sample (in any language) for this object?

Mark.


From jacek.generowicz at cern.ch  Thu Apr 22 12:24:10 2004
From: jacek.generowicz at cern.ch (Jacek Generowicz)
Date: 22 Apr 2004 18:24:10 +0200
Subject: AOP use cases
References: <84fc4588.0404140106.3fa0c55@posting.google.com>
	<slrnc7q1ss.1aa.alf@largo.fayauffre.org>
	<cb035744.0404141130.170f51c4@posting.google.com>
	<slrnc7sgat.vp.alf@largo.fayauffre.org>
	<cb035744.0404160442.2f0b1661@posting.google.com>
	<0pydnSB4WYuieuLdRVn-hQ@powergate.ca>
	<tyfbrlkv3ae.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
	<XYmdnVLB9rjbARrdRVn-vg@powergate.ca>
	<cb035744.0404220802.5adc5a5a@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <tyfr7ugt1zp.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>

hwlgw at hotmail.com (Will Stuyvesant) writes:

> What they DO show is code in Java that solves Java problems, usually
> to do with the limitations imposed by the static typing system.

You might enjoy the first bullet in the conclusions of the following:

  http://www.cs.uni-bonn.de/~costanza/dynfun.pdf

(Those of you not allergic to parentheses might find it interesting
reading thoughout.)

> I have come to the conclusion that AOP is nothing more than what I
> expect from a decent programmer: a good, or at least reasonable,
> design of software in the first place.

I think there is _potentially_ more to it than that. I think that
languages can provide direct assistance with this goal. The quality,
weight, usefullnes and hype of this support varies greatly with the
language in question, of course.


From newsgroups at jhrothjr.com  Sun Apr  4 12:07:31 2004
From: newsgroups at jhrothjr.com (John Roth)
Date: Sun, 4 Apr 2004 12:07:31 -0400
Subject: __import__() with packages
References: <c4p3f2$2j1tnb$1@ID-165840.news.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <1070cph9hedq9ee@news.supernews.com>


"Marco Herrn" <herrn at gmx.net> wrote in message
news:c4p3f2$2j1tnb$1 at ID-165840.news.uni-berlin.de...
> Hi,
>
> I am using the builtin __import__() to import modules. That works for
> simple modules like in this example:
>
>     m= __import__("eggs")
>
> when there is the module "eggs.py" in the current directory
>
> But how do I do this with packages? A I understand the documentation for
> __import__(), it must be something like:
>
>     m= __import__("eggs", globals(), locals(), ["spam"])
>
> when there is the package "spam" in the current directory, containing
> the module "eggs".
> But that doesn't work. I tried it in some different forms. The only one
> that works in some way is:
>
>    m= __import__("spam.eggs")
>
> But that is not what I want, since I get "spam" as a module:
>    <module 'spam' from 'spam/__init__.pyc'>
>
> So what am I doing wrong here?

You're doing everything correctly, just not quite enough.
What you've got is an almost empty module named "spam",
which contains another module bound to the identifier "eggs".

So what you need to do is:

m = __import__("spam.eggs")
eggs = spam.eggs

This will probably also work:

eggs = __import__("spam.eggs").eggs

HTH

John Roth
>
> Marco
>
> -- 
> Marco Herrn             herrn at gmx.net
> (GnuPG/PGP-signed and crypted mail preferred)
> Key ID: 0x94620736
>




From sholden at holdenweb.com  Fri Apr 30 13:50:24 2004
From: sholden at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2004 13:50:24 -0400
Subject: How to read a file from another server?  Newbie
In-Reply-To: <BNikc.33253$Jy3.2239@fed1read03>
References: <%Oejc.16$ph.9@fed1read07>
	<9ugjc.3709$g31.1370@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net>
	<c6k9fh$3t9$1@bagan.srce.hr> <Yyjjc.2071$Jy3.1146@fed1read03>
	<v4hkc.4707$wY.813@nwrdny03.gnilink.net>
	<BNikc.33253$Jy3.2239@fed1read03>
Message-ID: <409291E0.1070906@holdenweb.com>

Sean Berry wrote:

> I have resolved the issue.  I am just going to run the cgi script from the
> server the file is on.  If anyone out there is interested I am getting close
> to finishing a script that does recursive digs for MX, A, and NS records for
> a given domain, or list of domains.
> 
> Sean
> 
Without in any way wishing to rain on your parade, dnspython 
(http://www.dnspython.org/) is great for all DNS functionality.

regards
  Steve


From plastic"no-spam-pls" at xsintrk.net  Thu Apr 15 16:55:11 2004
From: plastic"no-spam-pls" at xsintrk.net (jeff)
Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2004 20:55:11 GMT
Subject: newbie question
Message-ID: <Xns94CCA389D3DA0plasticnospamplsxsin@216.77.188.18>

ex:

a = "text str"
if a == "text str": print a

why doesn't that work?  i couldn't find much help about variable types in 
the manual, does it need a property like a.text?


From jonas at jonasgalvez.com  Wed Apr 21 00:12:12 2004
From: jonas at jonasgalvez.com (Jonas Galvez)
Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2004 01:12:12 -0300
Subject: Regex'ing null bytes
References: <c64nve$kut$1@sea.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <c64seh$s05$1@sea.gmane.org>

Nevermind, I decided to not use regexes at all.


Jonas


"Jonas Galvez" <jonas at jonasgalvez.com> escreveu na mensagem news:c64nve$kut$1 at sea.gmane.org...
> Hi,
>
> I'm trying to parse some binary data with regexes. It works well in
> the latest Python build, but I need to run this on Python 1.5.2. The
> binary data has a pattern like this:
>
>     keyName1\002..(.*)\000.*keyName2\002..(.*)\000
>     (I'm using regex syntax to illustrate)
>
> So I wrote the following script:
>
>     def amfKey(str):
>         return "%s\002..([^\000]*)" % str
>
>     keys = re.compile(amfKey("key"), re.DOTALL).findall(amfStr)
>
> Works on 2.3.3, but produces the following error on 1.5.2:
>
>     Traceback (innermost last):
>        File "test.py", line 26, in ?
>          keys = re.compile(amfKey("key"), re.DOTALL).findall(amfStr)
>        File "C:\Python152\Lib\re.py", line 79, in compile
>          code=pcre_compile(pattern, flags, groupindex)
>      TypeError: argument 1: expected string without null bytes, string found
>
> Does anyone know a workaround? The type of binary data I'm trying to
> parse is AMF (Action Message Format), Macromedia's proprietary format
> for fast communication between the Flash Player and their "Flash
> Remoting" servers (ColdFusion/.NET/Java implementations). But there
> are opensource "Flash Remoting" implementations in PHP (amfphp.org),
> Perl (simonf.com/flap/) and Java (openamf.org) already - I've
> started to work on the Python port.
>
> And I wanted to keep this Python 1.5.2-compatible...
>
>
>
> Thanks in advance,
>
>
> =-
> Jonas Galvez
> jonasgalvez.com/blog
> macromedia.com/go/team






From __peter__ at web.de  Fri Apr  9 04:06:25 2004
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Fri, 09 Apr 2004 10:06:25 +0200
Subject: Function args
References: <sdqdc.37060$zm5.15866@nntpserver.swip.net>
	<c55f5r$f2l$1@news-reader4.wanadoo.fr>
	<c55g8u$vvg$1@s1.read.news.oleane.net>
Message-ID: <c55li1$oa$07$1@news.t-online.com>

Jean-Michel Caricand wrote:

> Imaginons que je veuille ?crire une fonction qui permute deux variables,
> j'?cris :
> 
> def permuter(a,b):
>   c = b
>   b = a
>   a = c
> 
> Si tout est objet, donc pass? par r?f?rence a et b devraient ?tre
> r?ellement modifier ? Pourtant ce n'est pas le cas.

Assignments inside a function only affect local bindings, i. e what a and b
"point" to in the local context. Rebinding in the calling context must be
made explicit:

>>> a = 1
>>> b = 2
>>> a, b = swap(a, b)
>>> a
2
>>> b
1

Of course you wouldn't write a function for that particular example:

>>> a = 1
>>> b = 2
>>> a, b = b, a
>>> a
2
>>> b
1
>>>

Does the above mean you can never change an object from inside a function?
No, only bindings cannot be changed and because integers are "immutable",
i. e. cannot be changed once they are created, what is viewed as changing
them is in fact rebinding. Now a simple example with a mutable class:

>>> class A:
...     def __init__(self, name, value):
...             self.name = name
...             self.value = value
...     def __repr__(self):
...             return "A(name=%r, value=%r)" % (self.name, self.value)
...
>>> def swapAttr(a, b):
...     a.value, b.value = b.value, a.value
...
>>> a = A("A", 1)
>>> b = A("B", 2)
>>> a, b
(A(name='A', value=1), A(name='B', value=2))
>>> swapAttr(a, b)
>>> a, b
(A(name='A', value=2), A(name='B', value=1))

While objects stay the same, you can do anything with the attributes. As
Michel Claveau already pointed out, the same is true for list and dict
items. 

Peter



From peter.maas at mplusr.de  Wed Apr  7 12:08:01 2004
From: peter.maas at mplusr.de (Peter Maas)
Date: Wed, 07 Apr 2004 18:08:01 +0200
Subject: Are line continuations needed?
In-Reply-To: <407409ef.82801353@news.eircom.net>
References: <407409ef.82801353@news.eircom.net>
Message-ID: <c518tu$k4b$1@swifty.westend.com>

Russell Wallace wrote:
> Python lets you continue a single logical line across more than one
> physical line, either by putting a \ at the end or letting it happen
> automatically with an incomplete infix operator.
> 
> I'm wondering how often is this feature needed? Would there be any
> problems if it weren't part of the language?

Just had this example:

d = { 'key1' : 'A very very long string of several hundred '\
           'characters. I could use a multi-line string but '\
           'then either left white space would be part of the '\
           'string or I would have to align it at column 0 '\
           '(ugly). I could embed it into a pair of brackets '\
           'but I see no advantage over \\. Finally I could '\
           'put this string on a single line (also ugly and hard '\
           'to read).'
       ...
     }


Mit freundlichen Gruessen,

Peter Maas

-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Peter Maas, M+R Infosysteme, D-52070 Aachen, Hubert-Wienen-Str. 24
Tel +49-241-93878-0 Fax +49-241-93878-20 eMail peter.maas at mplusr.de
-------------------------------------------------------------------


From robin at reportlab.com  Wed Apr 28 13:58:09 2004
From: robin at reportlab.com (Robin Becker)
Date: Wed, 28 Apr 2004 18:58:09 +0100
Subject: sys.modules strangeness
Message-ID: <408FF0B1.5090505@chamonix.reportlab.co.uk>

We had some legacy applications that used import to get parts of documents in.
When run separately these worked fine, but failed when run as a single process
because they both imported ch1 (after jumping to their home dirs and placing
these on the path). Clearly the first to run used up ch1.

I have a simple test script below. It seems I cannot just restore the original 
sys.modules and leave the modules to die, but actually need to del the relevant 
entries. Are modules somehow cached somewhere? What's the right way to unload a 
module (assuming I can remove non sys refs).

#timport.py start#######################
import sys, os
def d_b(d):
     os.chdir(d)
     cwd = os.getcwd()
     sys.path.insert(0,os.getcwd())
     import b
     print 'Expecting %s:'%os.path.join(d,'b.py'),
     b.run()
     sys.path.remove(cwd)
     os.chdir('..')

for d in 'a','c':
     fn = os.path.join(d,'b.py')
     f = open(fn,'r')
     print 'The file %s is\n#######\n%s#######\n' % (fn,f.read())
     f.close()

#this works
for d in 'a','c':
	OK = sys.modules.keys()[:]
	d_b(d)
	for k in sys.modules.keys():
		if k not in OK: del sys.modules[k]

#this doesn't
for d in 'a','c':
	OM = sys.modules.copy()
	d_b(d)
	sys.modules = OM
#a/b.py##############################
def run():
     print 'my file is', __file__, 'I am a\\b.py'
#c/b.py##############################
def run():
     print 'my file is', __file__, 'I am c\\b.py'
#outputput###########################
The file a\b.py is
#######
def run():
     print 'my file is', __file__, 'I am a\\b.py'
#######

The file c\b.py is
#######
def run():
     print 'my file is', __file__, 'I am c\\b.py'
#######

Expecting a\b.py: my file is C:\Tmp\IIII\a\b.pyc I am a\b.py
Expecting c\b.py: my file is C:\Tmp\IIII\c\b.pyc I am c\b.py
Expecting a\b.py: my file is C:\Tmp\IIII\a\b.pyc I am a\b.py
Expecting c\b.py: my file is C:\Tmp\IIII\a\b.pyc I am a\b.py
-- 
Robin Becker


From tzot at sil-tec.gr  Tue Apr  6 05:43:32 2004
From: tzot at sil-tec.gr (Christos TZOTZIOY Georgiou)
Date: Tue, 06 Apr 2004 12:43:32 +0300
Subject: Prothon Prototypes vs Python Classes
References: <569c605ld1cj8fc1emolk08ete0s1prls1@4ax.com>	<106cc1f2rsnaoe2@news.supernews.com>	<406635AB.9050803@mlug.missouri.edu>	<106ceeeqc8ph126@news.supernews.com>	<v0r9c.38988$cx5.22021@fed1read04><106di86neu1qh4d@news.supernews.com>	<mailman.21.1080516361.20120.python-list@python.org><106eut1pe29uab8@news.supernews.com>
	<mailman.36.1080541549.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<106g7r5nbg9ur16@news.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <e3i370thc65gnejgsku87d6954jinvdt7p@4ax.com>

On Mon, 29 Mar 2004 08:05:44 -0500, rumours say that "John Roth"
<newsgroups at jhrothjr.com> might have written:

[tabs vs spaces]

>Reading the source for Idle is quite
>enlightening: there is a comment about Tk doing something
>rather absurd if you change the tab default.

Which comment, I believe, is quite old, and possibly refers to an old
glitch of Tk (ICBW of course).

I like tabs, although out of courtesy to the general consensus in the
python world, I filter any code I make available to the public,
replacing tabs with 4 spaces (at least I try to remember that :).

However, I have a little patch for EditorWindow.py which I apply in
every python installation I am going to use, inserting a
self.set_tabwidth(3) (which translates to a most pleasant width of 3 ens
for the font I use, which is proportional) somewhere in the __init__ of
the EditorWindow class.  I don't have any bad consequences (or they went
unnoticed).

I don't preach to use tabs over spaces.  I just believe in personal
freedom, as long as I respect commonly accepted rules.
-- 
TZOTZIOY, I speak England very best,
Ils sont fous ces Redmontains! --Harddix


From chris.lyon at spritenote.co.uk  Thu Apr 22 08:15:36 2004
From: chris.lyon at spritenote.co.uk (Chris Lyon)
Date: 22 Apr 2004 05:15:36 -0700
Subject: How to get the ip addresses of a nic
References: <LEfhc.146586$jf4.7761132@news000.worldonline.dk>
	<2e262238.0404211825.2f6231b@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <d232c5e.0404220415.5fc36db3@posting.google.com>

jtdubs at eos.ncsu.edu (Justin Dubs) wrote in message news:<2e262238.0404211825.2f6231b at posting.google.com>...
> "Bo Jacobsen" <bo at systemhouse.dk> wrote in message news:<LEfhc.146586$jf4.7761132 at news000.worldonline.dk>...
> > Is there a simple way to get all the ip addresses of a nic, beyound parsing
> > /etc/sysconfig/.....
> 
> Depending on your needs:
> 
> >>> socket.gethostbyname(socket.gethostname())
> '192.168.0.18'
> 
> Justin Dubs

Tearing apart socket.gethostbyname_ex(socket.gethostname()) might help.


From try_vanevery_at_mycompanyname at yahoo.com  Mon Apr 26 15:14:26 2004
From: try_vanevery_at_mycompanyname at yahoo.com (Brandon J. Van Every)
Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2004 12:14:26 -0700
Subject: How's ruby compare to it older brother python
References: <c6ich0$c5mee$1@ID-205437.news.uni-berlin.de>
	<108pvmgl0h7m3ea@news.supernews.com> <c6jg7404m@enews4.newsguy.com>
	<108qk9dft7h7o52@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <c6jmhh$cr0r2$1@ID-207230.news.uni-berlin.de>

Cameron Laird wrote:
> .
> It's not just that "You won't know until you try" ("is it better
> to have children, or join the monastery?"); it's that you won't
> know until you try, *and it's inexpensive to try*!  It's eminently
> feasible to gain experience in either language with a few hours (!)
> of work, as opposed to the weeks that must precede enlightenment
> about, say, J2EE servers.

Of course, those of us who are more into the Complete Waste Of Time [TM]
theory of selecting software components will simply give you the bottom
line:

- If you like Perl, you'll like Ruby.  If you think Perl is a bletcherous
hack, you'll like Python.
- The Python community dwarfs the Ruby community.
- Both languages are slow.
- Python has lotsa libraries but not everything.  Ask here regarding your
specific needs.  Even if Python were the most elegant language in the world,
that's not useful if you must write everything from scratch and don't have
time to do it.

This is the kind of information you get by simply asking people and reading
lotsa archives.  Some people say "Try it yourself!" is the only way to
learn.  They are wrong, and they often don't value people's time.  You
really can rely on other people's reported experiences of the nuclear
mushroom cloud exploding over the horizon.  It is not strictly necessary to
walk into Ground Zero yourself.

Now, if you're going to argue "it's just a little Ruby code..." why don't
you try multiplying that by all the languages in the comp.lang.* hierarchy
that you could potentially be selecting from?  Take a spin by the Language
Shootouts if you want to spin your head some more.
http://www.bagley.org/~doug/shootout/
http://dada.perl.it/shootout/
You need a filter of some kind for cutting down the options.  I suggest
asking people, and seeing what languages actually got used for jobs relevant
to your software problem / industry.

I'm waiting for someone to say that my participation in this thread
constitutes trolling.  I find it amusing that the boundary between
"intelligent language discussion" and "trolling" is mainly a matter of who
likes who, not the content.  And, this is all I have to say on the subject,
so have fun.

-- 
Cheers,                     www.indiegamedesign.com
Brandon Van Every           Seattle, WA

"Troll" - (n.) Anything you don't like.
Usage: "He's just a troll."





From sholden at holdenweb.com  Sun Apr 25 11:02:10 2004
From: sholden at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Sun, 25 Apr 2004 11:02:10 -0400
Subject: mx.DateTime.Error: cannot convert value to a time value
In-Reply-To: <mailman.974.1082745647.20120.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.974.1082745647.20120.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <9oQic.12302$2e6.5340@lakeread01>

Sorisio, Chris wrote:
> Ladies and gentlemen,
> 
> I've imported some data from a MySQL database into a Python dictionary.  
> I'm attempting to tidy up the date fields, but I'm receiving a 
> 'mx.DateTime.Error: cannot convert value to a time value' error.  It's 
> related to glibc returning an error to a pre-1970 date, I think.
> 
You don't say why you think this, though, which might help - when  you 
say you are "attempting to tidy up" the date fields, do you mean convert 
them into time.time format, or what?

> My question:  /how/ do I go through the Python direction I've created to 
> remove the pre-1970 date objects?  Ideally, I would be able to iterate 
> through the dict and remove any DateTime objects that cause int() to 
> fail.  Unfortunately, the DateTime error causes my script to abort entirely.
> 
Ah, I see. Well, this gives us a bit more of a clue: it's the int() of 
an mx.DateTime object that throws up this error? [pauses to install 
mx.DateTime ...]

> Ex:
> 
>  >>> report["COMPANY X"][1][2]
> <DateTime object for '1969-12-31 00:00:00.00' at a1e1548>
> 

 >>> import mx.DateTime as dt
 >>> d = dt.DateTimeFrom("1969-12-31 00:00:00.00")
 >>> d
<DateTime object for '1969-12-31 00:00:00.00' at a0f2ca0>
 >>> int(d)
-68400

Hmm, are we using different versions of Python? (This was on Cygwin 
2.3.3 with mx.DateTime from mxBase-2.0.5).


Anyway, now I seem to be more or less in the same position as you. 
Clearly your system has mx.DateTime loaded (at least indirectly) 
otherwise your dtabase couldn't have created those ms.DateTime objects. 
It's not much of a problem to install if you don't have it loaded.

So, during initialization, have your program set the epoch:

 >>> epoch = dt.DateTimeFrom("1970-01-01 00:00:00")
 >>> epoch
<DateTime object for '1970-01-01 00:00:00.00' at a07ef60>

And then just compare the DateTimes to the epoch to decide whether they 
can be used or not.

 >>> if d < epoch:
...   print "Throw this one away"
...
Throw this one away
 >>>

Perhaps you aren;t getting that error for the reason you suppose, 
however, in which case a little more information would be helpful.

regards
  Steve


From afigueiredo at elnetcorp.com.br  Thu Apr  8 16:47:51 2004
From: afigueiredo at elnetcorp.com.br (Aloysio Figueiredo)
Date: Thu, 8 Apr 2004 17:47:51 -0300
Subject: List vs tuples
In-Reply-To: <c54cjb$5fs$1@planja.arnes.si>
References: <c54cjb$5fs$1@planja.arnes.si>
Message-ID: <20040408204751.GC6088@cerberus.elnet.grupomk>

* Mitja <tezt at email.si> [08-04-2004 17:42]:
> A neewbie's question here, probably discussed before:
> what's the purpose of having both lists AND tuples?

It's a FAQ, Indeed :)

http://www.python.org/doc/faq/general.html#why-are-there-separate-tuple-and-list-data-types

Cheers,
Aloysio
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From rpm1deleteme at direcway.com  Mon Apr 12 06:58:45 2004
From: rpm1deleteme at direcway.com (RPM1)
Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2004 06:58:45 -0400
Subject: Best IDE?
References: <c5bg1k$25vq$1@news.wplus.net><4ace7f9f.0404111147.3120288a@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.543.1081755983.20120.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <c5dsq3$ik7c$1@ID-203708.news.uni-berlin.de>


"Timothy Wu"  wrote ...
> rakanishu wrote:
> > I don't know if I'd call 'em IDEs but it's worth taking the time to
> > learn either emacs or vim. Both are very powerful editors that run on
> > multiple platforms. I tried emacs three times, but couldn't get into
> > it. I'm now getting hooked on vim. YMMV.
>
> I love Vim. I really do. And it works wonderfully on both Linux and
> Windows with Exuberant ctags (http://ctags.sourceforge.net/) on Python
> code. However the only thing that's bugging me is once I'm used to using
> Vi(that's practically the only editor I've ever use), I'm forever stuck
> with using Vi. I wish all other real IDEs comes with Vi mode, or I can
> somehow embed Vim in there (or someone else doing it for me as I'm not
> that technical). I would love to be using an IDE if it doesn't slow me
down.

I used to use Vim all the time but then at work I started doing
a lot of Visual Basic and C# programming and needed to use
the stupid MS IDE and it was slowing me down switching
back and forth between Vim's style and MS "style" so I
converted to Scite which is closer to MS style.  Once I figured
out how to roll my own "jump to tag" stack for Scite I really
started to like it.  It even fits on a floppy and there is no
installation.  Also you just hit F5 when you're editing Python
code and it runs it without having to download a Python ready
version like with Vim.

What's really amazing is that there are so many good editors and
IDE's available for free!

Just my $0.02,
Patrick




From moosebumps at moosebumps.com  Fri Apr  9 18:16:39 2004
From: moosebumps at moosebumps.com (Moosebumps)
Date: Fri, 09 Apr 2004 22:16:39 GMT
Subject: automatically generating file dependency information from python
	tools
Message-ID: <bhFdc.50011$bE2.25447@newssvr25.news.prodigy.com>

Say you have a group of 20 programmers, and they're all writing python
scripts that are simple data crunchers -- i.e. command line tools that read
from one or more files and output one or more files.

I want to set up some sort of system that would automatically generate
makefile type information from the source code of these tools.  Can anyone
think of a good way of doing it?  You could make everyone call a special
function that wraps the file() and detects whether they are opening the file
for read or write.  If read, it's an input, if write, it's an output file
(assume there is no r/w access).  Then I guess your special function would
output the info in some sort of repository, which collects such info from
all the individual data crunchers.

The other thing I could think of is statically analyzing the source code -- 
but what if the filenames are generated dynamically?  I'd be interested in
any ideas or links on this, I just started thinking about it today.  For
some reason it seems to be a sort of problem to solve with metaclasses -- 
but I haven't thought of exactly how.

thanks,
MB




From maxm at mxm.dk  Mon Apr 19 13:50:18 2004
From: maxm at mxm.dk (Max M)
Date: Mon, 19 Apr 2004 19:50:18 +0200
Subject: outline-style sorting algorithm
In-Reply-To: <71650A6F73F1D411BE8000805F65E3CB3B3A51@SRV-03>
References: <71650A6F73F1D411BE8000805F65E3CB3B3A51@SRV-03>
Message-ID: <4084115A.7000801@mxm.dk>

jwsacksteder at ramprecision.com wrote:

> Am I understanding correctly that python has an implict notion that position
> in a list denotes order of magnitude? Batteries included- Big Win!

Almost. But you can have multi digit numbers at each position.

 >>> l = [
... [4242,42,42],
... [42,4242,42],
... ]
 >>> l.sort()
 >>> l
[[42, 4242, 42], [4242, 42, 42]]


It actually just sorts a list of lists, where the value of each item 
decides the sort order.

regards Max M


-- 

hilsen/regards Max M, Denmark

http://www.mxm.dk/
IT's Mad Science



From hawkeye.parker at autodesk.com  Fri Apr 30 13:27:07 2004
From: hawkeye.parker at autodesk.com (haughki)
Date: 30 Apr 2004 10:27:07 -0700
Subject: programmatic XML schema validation
Message-ID: <b6e56f7a.0404300927.7e3924a3@posting.google.com>

A year ago i used XSV.  I'm having a little trouble with PyLtXML, and
I'm wondering if any of the more "mainstream" XML packages (PyXML) has
integrated schema validation into their toolset; or, if there are any
other schema validating XML parsers for Python out there.

thanks,

hawkeye parker
qa engineer
autodesk, inc.


From huggiepython at graffiti.idv.tw  Thu Apr  8 06:31:04 2004
From: huggiepython at graffiti.idv.tw (Timothy Wu)
Date: Thu, 08 Apr 2004 18:31:04 +0800
Subject: A beginner's question on thread
In-Reply-To: <1081316259.664569@yasure>
References: <mailman.382.1081232119.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<1081316259.664569@yasure>
Message-ID: <407529E8.3020900@graffiti.idv.tw>

Donn Cave wrote:
> Well, that's the deal.  Use threads to solve a problem, and now
> you have two problems.  
> 
> I'd probably do it the way Aurelio Martin proposed, with I/O to
> the socket thread.  It's much neater than whacking the thread,
> which is the alternative.
> 
> I wouldn't necessarily use threads in the first place, though.
> I think it really depends on the user interface - usually that
> has to be the dispatch core of the application, and if it's
> built for threads, then there you go.  Typically there will be
> some provision for dispatch on an I/O channel like a socket.
> If you're writing your own user interface, probably just reading
> and writing to the tty, and the socket thread is going to be
> the one and lonely extra thread - then don't do it, I'd say.
> Use select.select, or a package like asyncore or twisted or
> whatever (not very familiar with that territory, I just use select.)

I think Roger Binns's setDaemon() suggestion works for me. =)
Thanks for suggestion the other options. I'll take a look at asnycore or 
twisted when I have time or perhaps for other projects. Since from what 
I read somewhere else, it doesn't seem like Python thread's performance 
is exceptional.

Timothy



From greg at cosc.canterbury.ac.nz  Sun Apr 25 23:32:59 2004
From: greg at cosc.canterbury.ac.nz (Greg Ewing)
Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2004 15:32:59 +1200
Subject: Why we will use obj$func() often
In-Reply-To: <bipk80pio4qjk9rl0ucfmk4g4h6s3bkkuu@4ax.com>
References: <8AWhc.23114$dZ1.11070@fed1read04> <40883BFE.B381518A@alcyone.com>
	<27_hc.23801$dZ1.2716@fed1read04> <40887145.789A2FE8@alcyone.com>
	<7cki80hj976bia36lhf9er97v073o1pqvm@4ax.com>
	<w8dic.28710$dZ1.11206@fed1read04> <ulXiAls/KH1K089yn@the-wire.com>
	<lkfic.29767$dZ1.17301@fed1read04>
	<donn-66132E.15345723042004@nntp3.u.washington.edu>
	<PLhic.30493$dZ1.22063@fed1read04> <1082783076.585831@yasure>
	<Tunic.32387$dZ1.12932@fed1read04>
	<bipk80pio4qjk9rl0ucfmk4g4h6s3bkkuu@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <c6hvtd$bvup5$1@ID-169208.news.uni-berlin.de>

David MacQuigg wrote:
> Python added "read access" to external variables, so they must have
> considered "write access" as well.  I don't know the history, but I
> would guess the reason they didn't allow this is the same as the
> reason they don't allow GOTO.  Yes it is powerful, but it might
> encourage bad programming.  

Actually, it was more that there wasn't any single obvious
way of providing write access that blends in with Python's
"assignment is implicit declaration" flavour. Rather than
pick one at random, it was decided to just provide read
access to begin with and leave anything else to later.

-- 
Greg Ewing, Computer Science Dept,
University of Canterbury,	
Christchurch, New Zealand
http://www.cosc.canterbury.ac.nz/~greg



From cookedm+news at physics.mcmaster.ca  Mon Apr 26 16:51:26 2004
From: cookedm+news at physics.mcmaster.ca (David M. Cooke)
Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2004 16:51:26 -0400
Subject: How to debug CGI scripts with simulated variables from server?
References: <670jc.100949$U83.74356@fed1read03>
Message-ID: <8765bmsbsh.fsf@arbutus.physics.mcmaster.ca>

At some point, "Sean Berry" <sean_berry at cox.net> wrote:

> I want to debug a script that has a line like the following:
> if len(os.environ["QUERY_STRING"]) > 0:
>
> How do I debug this from the command line.  I tried
> QUERY_STRING='sized=72&shaped=3' ./aqua_getShapes
>
> But that returns:
> QUERY_STRING=sized=72&shaped=3: Command not found.
>
> Please help.  Thanks

Are you using tcsh as your shell? The syntax above works with Bourne
shells (bash, etc.). With tcsh, try

$ env QUERY_STRING='sized=72&shaped=3' ./aqua_getShapes

('env' being the same program that most Python scripts use to find the
interpreter in the #! line: #! /usr/bin/env pytho)

or, set the variable in the environment

$ setenv QUERY_STRING='sized=72&shaped=3'
$ ./aqua_getShapes

-- 
|>|\/|<
/--------------------------------------------------------------------------\
|David M. Cooke
|cookedm(at)physics(dot)mcmaster(dot)ca


From tzot at sil-tec.gr  Wed Apr  7 05:05:36 2004
From: tzot at sil-tec.gr (Christos TZOTZIOY Georgiou)
Date: Wed, 07 Apr 2004 12:05:36 +0300
Subject: [OT] The Cracker's Guide To Python
Message-ID: <04g770lqpbhdgr3n3b9mnu9o8f08fdkgk0@4ax.com>

Dear all,

yesterday afternoon I happened to be in the company of youngsters, and I
overheard them talking about the whereabouts of the crack of the latest
version of some famous video editing software... instead of preaching
about legalities at first etc, I asked:

"What exactly do you need this software for?"

"I have two avi files and I want to join them..."

"Why don't you download VirtualDub and do your job then?  Google for it,
it's open source and you can download it freely."

"So I don't need a crack for it?"

... (!)

I'm skipping the rest of the conversation, but the idea of lots of
youngsters around the world, brilliant and talented perhaps, that waste
their time in illegal activities instead of investing it into open
source software struck me as very depressing.

So jokingly, how do we advertise python in that "underground" world?
Easy: let's provide a crack for every version of python for windows! :)
It doesn't matter what it does, perhaps only change the copyright
message into "H4x0r3d by Guid0 T34m" by changing directly the
pythonxx.dll.  The only problem would be that if the crack is written in
Python, it won't be able to open the dll as read-write...

It's a crazy world...
-- 
TZOTZIOY, I speak England very best,
Ils sont fous ces Redmontains! --Harddix


From jepler at unpythonic.net  Sun Apr  4 09:48:52 2004
From: jepler at unpythonic.net (Jeff Epler)
Date: Sun, 4 Apr 2004 08:48:52 -0500
Subject: Python is faster than C
In-Reply-To: <5d83790c.0404032144.482787bd@posting.google.com>
References: <406F0907.96F37EA1@tunes.org>
	<5d83790c.0404032144.482787bd@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <20040404134851.GB3455@unpythonic.net>

from pprint import *
def install_hook():
    def displayhook(v):
        import __main__
        if v is not None:
            if isiterator(v):
                print "<%s object at 0x%8x:" % (
                    type(v).__name__, id(v)),
                v, copy = itertools.tee(v)
                for elem in itertools.islice(copy, 3):
                    print saferepr(elem),
                try:
                    copy.next()
                except StopIteration:
                    pass
                else:
                    print '...',
                sys.stdout.softspace=0
                print ">" 
            else:
                pprint(v)
        __main__._ = v

    sys.displayhook = displayhook

Jeff



From mwilson at the-wire.com  Tue Apr  6 08:20:44 2004
From: mwilson at the-wire.com (Mel Wilson)
Date: Tue, 06 Apr 2004 08:20:44 -0400
Subject: int('2.1') does not work while int(float('2.1')) does
References: <mailman.376.1081213637.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<40722555.66C70D40@alcyone.com> <slrnc74a1l.bqf.joe@gate.notcharles.ca>
Message-ID: <cCqcAls/K3rL089yn@the-wire.com>

In article <slrnc74a1l.bqf.joe at gate.notcharles.ca>,
Joe Mason <joe at notcharles.ca> wrote:
>In article <40722555.66C70D40 at alcyone.com>, Erik Max Francis wrote:
>> There's a fundamental difference between an int and a float.  If the
>> string you're trying to convert looks like a float, that means it
>> doesn't look like an int.
>>
>> With your first example of '2.1', what should it mean?  Should it
>> truncate, round to negative infinity round to positive infinity, round
>> to zero, what?  Python can't guess for you, so it shouldn't try.  Thus
>> it's an error.
>
>Why can it make this guess for "int(2.1)", then?  It's got a rule for
>converting floats to ints - why not use it here?

   I see it more as a programmer interface issue.  There are
kinds of operation that can suggest (especially in a
dynamically-typed language) that your program has gotten
away from you.  Python creator(s?) could have drawn this
particular line to this side or that, but in historical fact
they drew it here.  Perhaps on the principle of one
conversion at a time, please.

   You could argue that unit testing, the universal solvent,
would clean up this too.

        Regards.        Mel.


From nicolas.lehuen at thecrmcompany.com  Thu Apr 22 06:39:50 2004
From: nicolas.lehuen at thecrmcompany.com (Nicolas Lehuen)
Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2004 12:39:50 +0200
Subject: This is very simple question
References: <b0457a31.0404210754.2a34b6be@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.840.1082563771.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<108dbd1aftmkc48@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <4087a0f6$0$25552$afc38c87@news.easynet.fr>


"Cameron Laird" <claird at lairds.com> a ?crit dans le message de news:108dbd1aftmkc48 at corp.supernews.com...
> In article <mailman.840.1082563771.20120.python-list at python.org>,
> Brian Quinlan  <brian at sweetapp.com> wrote:
> >
> >> I would want to obtain a list of factors (multiples of 2) given a
> >> prime number in python.
> >> 
> >> For example 13=[8,4,1], 5=[4,1], 7=[4,2,1], 15=[8,4,2,1]
> >> 
> >> I would appreciate a fuction which would do this.
> >
> >If we told you it wouldn't be fair to the other students in your class :-)
> .
> .
> .
> I'm surprised only one of the responses I've seen so far has 
> objected to what sure seems like an inappropriate response to
> classwork.  I'm astonished that no one is reading this question
> as I do.  I leave as an exercise for readers this generalization
> of what *I* think is going on:
> 
>   def positional_addends(positive_integer, base = 2):
>       result = []
>       current = 1
>       while positive_integer:
>   remainder = positive_integer % (base * current)
>           if remainder:
>               result.append(remainder)
>               positive_integer -= remainder
>           current *= base
>       result.reverse()
>       return result
>   
>   print positional_addends(13)
>   print positional_addends(5)
>   print positional_addends(7)
>   print positional_addends(15)
>   print positional_addends(78904, 10)
> 
> The real exercise is to convert this to a readable one-liner,
> at least for the binary case.
> -- 
> 
> Cameron Laird <claird at phaseit.net>
> Business:  http://www.Phaseit.net

You can also use divmod :

def decompose(i,base=2):
    result=[]
    factor=1
    while i>0:
        i,r=divmod(i,base)
        if r:
            result.append(r*factor) # or result.extend([factor]*r), depending on style
        factor*=base
    return result.reverse() # if you really want it reversed

Regards,
Nicolas


From hwlgw at hotmail.com  Fri Apr 16 10:16:01 2004
From: hwlgw at hotmail.com (Will Stuyvesant)
Date: 16 Apr 2004 07:16:01 -0700
Subject: Python Documentation Blows!
References: <40699A31.8000708@yahoo.com>
	<20040330161531.GA17112@vulcan.cprogrammer.org>
	<mailman.135.1080674367.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<86uu70phciv8arhieh3gv51dbf0i33f9ir@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <cb035744.0404160616.b78f7c6@posting.google.com>

> [Terry Carroll]
> The state of wxPython's documentation is the major factor that's kept
> me from trying it.

Short and elegant code examples.  Preferably about what you want to
do.  That is always the kind of documentation I am looking for.

But writing that kind of docs is *very* difficult, since you have to
be a programmer who can give good examples in an elegant style.

Best thing to do IMHO is to look at the effbot site with the online
book, or search c.l.p. for examples, e.g. search for particular code
strings.


we-all-miss-effbot-ly y'rs  - will


From op73418 at mail.telepac.pt  Thu Apr  1 08:17:29 2004
From: op73418 at mail.telepac.pt (Gonçalo Rodrigues)
Date: Thu, 01 Apr 2004 14:17:29 +0100
Subject: ANNOUNCE: 'goto' for Python
References: <mailman.210.1080803438.20120.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1c5o609a7cnep1gv7d2s9t2j4b485p8dqq@4ax.com>

On Thu, 01 Apr 2004 08:10:29 +0100, Richie Hindle <richie at entrian.com>
wrote:

>
>Entrian Solutions is pleased to announce version 1.0 of the 'goto' module.
>
>This adds the 'goto' and 'comefrom' keywords to Python 2.3, adding
>flexibility to Python's control flow mechanisms and allowing Python
>programmers to use many common control flow idioms that were previously
>denied to them.
>
>'goto' example: breaking out from a deeply nested loop:
>
>    from goto import goto, label
>    for i in range(1, 10):
>        for j in range(1, 20):
>            for k in range(1, 30):
>                print i, j, k
>                if k == 3:
>                    goto .end
>    label .end
>    print "Finished\n"
>
>
>'comefrom' example: letting cleanup code take control after an error.
>
>    from goto import comefrom, label
>    def bigFunction():
>        setUp()
>        if not doFirstTask():
>            label .failed
>        if not doSecondTask():
>            label .failed
>        if not doThirdTask():
>            label .failed
>    
>        comefrom .failed
>        cleanUp()
>
>Computed 'goto's are also supported - see the documentation for details.
>Computed 'comefrom's are planned for a future release.
>
>Documentation and further examples:
>    http://entrian.com/goto/index.html
>
>Downloads:
>    http://entrian.com/goto/download.html
>
>The 'goto' module is released under the Python Software Foundation
>license, and requires Python 2.3 or later.
>
>Please note that this version does not work at the interactive Python
>prompt - code importing 'goto' must be in a .py file.  This restriction
>will hopefully be lifted in a future release.


Thanks a lot!! Now I at least have a chance to shame my perlite
friends in obfuscation contests with a suitably spaghetified Python
code. I'm getting all warm and fuzzy with the possibilities this
module opens.

Once again, thanks a lot for your efforts to improve the Python
language, with my best regards,
G. Rodrigues


From wweston at att.net  Mon Apr 19 11:44:49 2004
From: wweston at att.net (wes weston)
Date: Mon, 19 Apr 2004 15:44:49 GMT
Subject: outline-style sorting algorithm
In-Reply-To: <mailman.755.1082380154.20120.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.755.1082380154.20120.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <RtSgc.2596$um3.76418@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>

jwsacksteder at ramprecision.com wrote:
> I have a need to sort a list of elements that represent sections of a
> document in dot-separated notation. The built in sort does the wrong thing.
> This seems a rather complex problem and I was hoping someone smarter than me
> had already worked out the best way to approach this. For example, consider
> the following list-
> 
> 
>>>>foo
> 
> ['1.0', '1.0.1', '1.1.1', '1.2', '1.9', '1.10', '1.11', '1.20', '1.20.1',
> '1.30']
> 
>>>>foo.sort()
>>>>foo
> 
> ['1.0', '1.0.1', '1.1.1', '1.10', '1.11', '1.2', '1.20', '1.20.1', '1.30',
> '1.9']
> 
> Obviously 1.20.1 should be after 1.9 if we look at this as dot-delimited
> integers, not as decimal numbers.
> 
> Does anyone have pointers to existing code?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 



list = ['1.0', '1.0.1', '1.1.1', '1.2', '1.9', '1.10', '1.11', '1.20', 
'1.20.1','1.30']

def parse(str):
     list = str.split('.')
     if len(list) > 0:
         x1 = int(list[0])
     else:
         x1 = -1
     if len(list) > 1:
         x2 = int(list[1])
     else:
         x2 = -1
     if len(list) > 2:
         x3 = int(list[2])
     else:
         x3 = -1
     return x1,x2,x3

def cmp(x1,x2):
     w1 = parse(x1)
     w2 = parse(x2)
     if w1[0] < w2[0]:
         return -1
     if w1[0] > w2[0]:
         return 1

     if w1[1] < w2[1]:
         return -1
     if w1[1] > w2[1]:
         return 1

     if w1[2] < w2[2]:
         return -1
     if w1[2] > w2[2]:
         return 1

     return 0

#---------------------------
if __name__ == "__main__":
     list.sort(cmp)
     for x in list:
         print x



From asdf at asdf.com  Thu Apr 22 20:12:22 2004
From: asdf at asdf.com (asdf sdf)
Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2004 00:12:22 GMT
Subject: python web programming / CMS
In-Reply-To: <zuYhc.82967$9b.5554283@phobos.telenet-ops.be>
References: <EOOhc.82192$A9.5538906@phobos.telenet-ops.be>
	<mailman.910.1082637637.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<XnQhc.82310$X%7.5425202@phobos.telenet-ops.be>
	<0kVhc.54316$eB7.29255@newssvr25.news.prodigy.com>
	<9YWhc.82882$%l7.5377160@phobos.telenet-ops.be>
	<TkXhc.54353$wn.10631@newssvr25.news.prodigy.com>
	<zuYhc.82967$9b.5554283@phobos.telenet-ops.be>
Message-ID: <GbZhc.40075$OX1.7637@newssvr29.news.prodigy.com>


> Hehe :) Well i'm trying to figure out before i decide on what i'm
> going to use. Are there other good CMS around based on Python?
> 
> Anyway, i saw a page ( forgot the link ) that had benchmarks
> between python, java, c++ and perl and it seemed that Python
> was indeed a lot slower than the other languages. But if you have
> a fast server, it might not be so much of a problem.
> 
> flupke
> 
> 
> 
Check out the earlier thread 'Simple pyhon-based CMS' (sic) started on 
4-13 by Stewart Midwinter in this group.

many threads in this group have clearly established that python is just 
as fast as java, c, c++, perl, assembler and light, and that speed 
doesn't matter anyways ;)



From moosebumps at moosebumps.com  Tue Apr 13 00:34:38 2004
From: moosebumps at moosebumps.com (Moosebumps)
Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2004 04:34:38 GMT
Subject: Random Numbers and a thought
References: <107m6f0t4i0gnff@corp.supernews.com>
	<ctednRIVbfzSgObdRVn-gQ@powergate.ca>
	<107m8qvphrjd303@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <y5Kec.22002$Lu4.12475@newssvr27.news.prodigy.com>

Yeah, this is not really a python question at all... go ask on sci.math or
comp.programming and have people discourage and flame you there.  : )

MB

"A Evans" <ae> wrote in message news:107m8qvphrjd303 at corp.supernews.com...
>
> > What "pattern" are you talking about?
>
> Well from what I understand about my last post numbers computers generate
> aren't truly random
>
> Quote from the link you gave me
>
> Computers are deterministic. They cannot create a truly random sequence in
> which we cannot predict  even if we know all preceding elements - it may
be
> a bit of work for us to actually sit down and do the figuring, but it is
> always possible.
>
> I would like to take a random number generated by a computer application
> then use my application to try and determine the pattern in that
application
>
> Quote me if its impossible
>
> Basically I would like to create an application that takes a series of
> random numbers generated by a computer and searches for the pattern inside
> those numbers
>
> Sorry if I sound like I am repeating myself but I am just trying to
explain
> myself to the best of my ability
>
> I guess if the numbers were between say 1 and 1000 it would take 1000
inputs
> to understand the pattern if not more I would like to solve it before that
>
> Cheers
>
>
>




From eadorio at yahoo.com  Fri Apr 30 03:54:57 2004
From: eadorio at yahoo.com (Ernie)
Date: 30 Apr 2004 00:54:57 -0700
Subject: Feedback on Sets, and Partitions
References: <mailman.136.1083282936.25742.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <5b42ae4.0404292354.86c7026@posting.google.com>

"Steve" <humean at fea.st> wrote in message news:<mailman.136.1083282936.25742.python-list at python.org>...
> This post has two parts. First is my feedback on sets. (Hello? Last
> summer called, they want their discussion thread back...) Second is some
> questions about my implementation of a partition function for sets.
> 
> Part 1.
> ---
.... snipped
> Part 2
> ---
.... snipped
> For my current project, I need to generate partitions of sets up to size
> 25. I am rather hopeless it will ever be feasible, and I have begun
> looking for a different approach. Thanks for any replies!

For Part 2, Google on restricted growth functions if you are
interested in non-recursive generation of set partitions of n objects
with k classes.

I have an implementation done  in python, not using sets but rather an
array of integers which can be used for indexing, for processing
equivalences and set partitions (See
http://www.geocities.com/eadorio/equiv.pdf).

Regards,

Ernie


From no.email at please.com  Sat Apr 10 14:55:23 2004
From: no.email at please.com (Stevie_mac)
Date: Sat, 10 Apr 2004 19:55:23 +0100
Subject: Static Data?
References: <2FTdc.56817$Id.5813@news-binary.blueyonder.co.uk>
Message-ID: <lqXdc.58151$Id.15238@news-binary.blueyonder.co.uk>


"Stevie_mac" <no.email at please.com> wrote in message news:2FTdc.56817$Id.5813 at news-binary.blueyonder.co.uk...
> I need to have a static class data member like c.  How can I achieve this?
<SNIP>


Thanks all for your assistance. This though raised some question for me...

In Jeffs solution, Is self._ID the same variable as _ID (declared immediately after class Counted). Is there 3 _IDs?
If you have the time, could you explain (nothing fancy, just brief) the meaning of declaring variables in different
locations (like self, below class, as part of class, in a class def).  This would be greatly appreciated.

and Peters solution
class Object:
    _ID = 1
    def __init__(self):
        self.ID = Object._ID
        Object._ID += 1
Is Object._ID a class instance variable and self.ID a 'shared' class variable

Cheers - Stevie_Mac (confused)




From claird at lairds.com  Wed Apr 28 08:05:56 2004
From: claird at lairds.com (Cameron Laird)
Date: Wed, 28 Apr 2004 12:05:56 -0000
Subject: Is Perl *that* good?
References: <c6ich0$c5mee$1@ID-205437.news.uni-berlin.de>
	<knbjc.267$id.3998@news2.e.nsc.no>
	<TAHjc.34088$cF6.1592539@attbi_s04>
	<lEIjc.571$id.8865@news2.e.nsc.no>
Message-ID: <108v7h488rohn0e@corp.supernews.com>

In article <lEIjc.571$id.8865 at news2.e.nsc.no>,
Leif B. Kristensen <junkmail at solumslekt.org> wrote:
			.
			.
			.
>I actually did rewrite the routine once in PHP, but I usually find
>regexps in any other language than Perl a PITA.
			.
			.
			.
Right, and anything you can do to make that pain
concretely evident interests me.  I repeat:  I
have much experience of people deprecating REs
outside Perl; I'm still collecting specific 
examples, to help me understand exactly what the
pain is.
-- 

Cameron Laird <claird at phaseit.net>
Business:  http://www.Phaseit.net


From peter at engcorp.com  Wed Apr 14 12:00:12 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2004 12:00:12 -0400
Subject: Pygame
In-Reply-To: <107qkrbhnjpmh9b@news.supernews.com>
References: <c5jdv2$s4$1@orkan.itea.ntnu.no>
	<107qkrbhnjpmh9b@news.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <GYednZfr4IGR_eDd4p2dnA@powergate.ca>

John Roth wrote:
> "Alexander R?dseth" <alexanro at stud.ntnu.no> wrote in message
> news:c5jdv2$s4$1 at orkan.itea.ntnu.no...
> 
>>Why isn't Pygame a part of Python?
> 
> Why should it be?
> 
> In looking thorough the libarary, I find that
> everything there is a developer tool of some
> sort. The few executables are things like
> unittest which are standard parts of the
> developer's tool chain.

Not that I agree with Alexander that Pygame should be part
of the standard download, but isn't it true that it is just
as much a developer tool as anything else?  He gave examples
such as XML and sound... Pygame is in the same vein as those,
only more complex.

(But I do think it would be crazy to include it, just not
for the reason that "it's not a developer tool".)

-Peter


From dave at pythonapocrypha.com  Tue Apr 27 13:20:52 2004
From: dave at pythonapocrypha.com (Dave Brueck)
Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2004 11:20:52 -0600
Subject: Non-blocking connect BLOCKS
References: <c57c103.0404270854.48c2f8be@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <025f01c42c7b$fe337040$6600a8c0@YODA>

> I'm using asyncore to download a large list of web pages, and I've
> noticed dispatcher.connect blocks for some hosts. I was under the
> impression that non-blocking sockets do not block on connects, in
> addition to reads and writes. My connect code is essentially the same
> as the asyncore example:
>
> http://docs.python.org/lib/asyncore-example.html
>
> It seems unlikely that I am the first to encounter this problem, can
> someone explain what's wrong and suggest a remedy?

Most likely the connect call is doing a DNS lookup, which means your execution
pauses while some other (non-Python) code goes and talks to the DNS server. For
many hosts the lookup will be fast (or even already cached locally, depending
on how your OS is configured), but for others the lookup may require checking
with an upstream DNS server (and in the worst case it'll involve several
upstream queries for a lookup that ultimately fails).

You can eliminate the delay by only passing in IP addresses to connect (it'll
notice that they are IP addresses rather than hostnames, and skip the DNS
lookup). The problem of course is that you need to then somehow get the DNS
addresses yourself. Maintaining a cache of resolved hostnames is a quick hack
to reduce the number of lookups, but it doesn't eliminate them. The only
alternative is to talk to the DNS server yourself - using asyncore of course so
that other connections don't block. IIRC there is some Python code for
creating/unpacking DNS packets and at one time it was even included in the
Python install (like in the Demo folder or something).

If you can find a third-party asynchronous DNS lookup library then that might
be the way to go - the above approach can get really messy (lots of details to
manage), but it also works and completely solves the problem, so basically you
have to decide how badly this problem hurts you. If you do go this route,
here's a few hints:

- on Windows you can semi-reliably detect the DNS servers by parsing the output
of 'ipconfig /all' and on Linux you can usually parse /etc/resolve.conf.

- you might also want to parse and honor the values in the /etc/hosts file
(LMHOSTS on Windows)

- you can of course skip the lookup of the hostname 'localhost'

- it might be helpful to cache both the queries that succeed and the ones that
fail, depending on your application, as failed lookups can be really slow.

- I use a simple class to track cached entries:

class AgingMap:
    def __init__(self):
        self.dict = {}

    def Get(self, key):
        try:
            expTime, val = self.dict[key]
            if expTime is not None and time.time() >= expTime:
                val = None
        except KeyError:
            # Not found
            val = None
        return val

    def Set(self, key, value, ttlSec):
        expires = ttlSec
        if ttlSec is not None:
            expires = ttlSec + time.time()
        self.dict[key] = (expires, value)

This of course grows without bounds but most of the time I don't really care.
You could add a cleanup() method or something that gets called every once in
awhile from your main event loop. A ttlSec value of None indicates a
non-expiring entry, e.g. due to an entry from the hosts file.

- IIRC you actually get a time-to-live (TTL) value for each IP returned by the
DNS, but to simplify things I usually store them all using the minimum TTL
value from the whole set (makes the cache simpler).

HTH,
-Dave




From eldiener at earthlink.net  Sun Apr  4 20:20:46 2004
From: eldiener at earthlink.net (Edward Diener)
Date: Mon, 05 Apr 2004 00:20:46 GMT
Subject: Difference between default arguments and keyword arguments
References: <UmTbc.9904$NL4.4809@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net>
	<10713rf4bjl1bab@news.supernews.com>
	<roy-98D913.19232404042004@reader1.panix.com>
Message-ID: <yD1cc.12064$yN6.3263@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net>

Roy Smith wrote:
> "John Roth" <newsgroups at jhrothjr.com> wrote:
>> In going through the tutorial I also noticed that it explained
>> the * notation, but not the ** notation. I think this also needs
>> to be repaired - if one is in the tutorial, both should be.
>
> I suspect this will be an unpopular opinion, but I don't think either
> belong in the tutorial.
>
> I think the function of a tutorial is to introduce somebody to the
> main features of the language, not cover every nook and cranny of the
> syntax. The * and ** syntaxes (synti?), while certainly useful, are
> also somewhat advanced topics.  I think their appearance in an
> introductory document is misplaced.

Along the same lines, I would like to add to that the explanation for
classes in the tutorial is very poor since it assumes a much higher
understanding of Python than a tutorial should about the language. A much
simpler and more direct explanation regarding classes in Python would be
much better. While I mostly got it because I have programmed extensively in
other OOP languages, I would expect your average Python beginner to be
completely lost by much of the high-level explanation in that chapter.
Whoever wrote it was much more interested in explaining the theory of
classes in Python, to beginners no less !, than they were toward explaining
what classes are in Python and how to use them. And why iterators and
generators are included in that chapter are beyond me. Also the tutorial
mentions some usages of classes, in previous sections, before the
explanation of classes occur, which I feel is definitely a mistake.




From mark at prothon.org  Fri Apr 23 13:25:38 2004
From: mark at prothon.org (Mark Hahn)
Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2004 10:25:38 -0700
Subject: CamelCase versus wide_names (Prothon)
References: <UHxfc.9323$dZ1.3740@fed1read04>
	<6e0680ac.0404211252.7f7b4358@posting.google.com>
	<4086DFA7.9736E7D3@alcyone.com>
	<roy-15454C.18080121042004@reader2.panix.com>
	<PdEhc.19536$dZ1.11964@fed1read04>
	<slrnc8hluh.s60.apardon@trout.vub.ac.be>
Message-ID: <nkcic.28282$dZ1.27269@fed1read04>


"Antoon Pardon" <apardon at forel.vub.ac.be> wrote in message
news:slrnc8hluh.s60.apardon at trout.vub.ac.be...

>   copy(a)to(b)

That's cool looking but I'm pretty sure impossible to parse the way you want
:)

Although, out angle brackets are free in Prothon right now.  We could
reserve them for that:

    copy<a>to<b>.

Interesting.  That would drive newbies to the language crazy :)  It sure is
readable.  It kind of lets you design you own syntax inside the symbols.

I must hand it to you.  That's one of the most creative crazy ideas I've
seen lately.  It is refreshing to see fun creative feedback instead of the
"your language is just Perl" type of feedback.

Maybe you could hang out on Prothon-user ?




From marcel at vernix.org  Fri Apr 16 10:43:19 2004
From: marcel at vernix.org (Marcel Molina Jr.)
Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2004 10:43:19 -0400
Subject: (For gurus) Embed functions in webpages like in PHP?
In-Reply-To: <5eq4l1-9vm.ln1@pilz.hasos.com>
References: <5eq4l1-9vm.ln1@pilz.hasos.com>
Message-ID: <20040416144319.GB7244@foxy>

On Fri, Apr 16, 2004 at 12:38:16PM +0200, Robert Ferber wrote:
> As far as I've seen, there is no way to embed Python-code in a webpage with
> "<? ?>" or anything equivalent and I don't see any other way to solve this
> problem.
> 
> But maybe somebody else does, I'd apreceate all ideas,

there is also spyce, which is not a templating system but a way to embed
python in html a la php or mason, etc.

http://spyce.sf.net/

marcel
-- 
Marcel Molina Jr. <marcel at vernix.org>



From news at contrado.com.au  Tue Apr 20 07:54:27 2004
From: news at contrado.com.au (gsm)
Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 21:54:27 +1000
Subject: python module for interactive web charts
References: <hahgc.23618$zk1.8252@newssvr27.news.prodigy.com>
Message-ID: <40850f74$0$16577$5a62ac22@freenews.iinet.net.au>

goto

http://www.advsofteng.com/

you can do everythign with this library and it is HTTP server optimised ...
i.e small footprint

"Moosebumps" <moosebumps at moosebumps.com> wrote in message
news:hahgc.23618$zk1.8252 at newssvr27.news.prodigy.com...
> Is there anything that is made to generate web pages which have charts
> similar to the yahoo finance stock charts?  Not looking to graph stocks
> specifically, but anything.  I like how you can zoom on each axis, and
maybe
> click to see numerical values and such.
>
> If there isn't anything in Python, what do people typically use for that
> kind of stuff, or is it all hand-rolled?
>
> thanks,
> MB
>
>




From fredrik at pythonware.com  Mon Apr 26 02:19:20 2004
From: fredrik at pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2004 08:19:20 +0200
Subject: Regexp optimization question
References: <slrnc8gal3.9da.mlh@furu.idi.ntnu.no><c6a8ku$jga$1@newsreader2.netcologne.de><slrnc8ieul.7j7.mlh@furu.idi.ntnu.no>
	<698f09f8.0404240819.1d3c6001@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <c6i9kd$2vg$1@sea.gmane.org>

Jeremy Fincher wrote:

> It's important to note that many of these features turn the
> expressions that represent their use into decidedly non-regular
> expressions, regardless of what Pythoneers and Perlers call them :)

the use of "regular" in this context refers to religion, not computer
science.

</F>






From tjreedy at udel.edu  Mon Apr 26 22:34:44 2004
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2004 22:34:44 -0400
Subject: Compiler
References: <q6gjc.1945$VA1.1741@doctor.cableinet.net><hs-dnd24VPrHPBDdRVn-hQ@powergate.ca>
	<408db4fb$1@news.unimelb.edu.au>
Message-ID: <c6kgrt$4cu$1@sea.gmane.org>


"Maurice LING" <mauriceling at acm.org> wrote in message
news:408db4fb$1 at news.unimelb.edu.au...
> i was wondering just how different is the python bytecode from the java

For Jython, 'python bytecode' is jave bytecode.


> bytecode? is there a specification for python virtual machine or sort?

For CPython, see the documentation for the CPython-specific dis (assembly)
module.  Note that the details are x.y version specific, subject to change,
and not part of the language specification.  For 'interesting projects'
that have been posted, try googling for Python bytecode hacks.

Terry J. Reedy






From donald.welch at hp.com  Tue Apr 27 20:04:32 2004
From: donald.welch at hp.com (donald.welch at hp.com)
Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2004 17:04:32 -0700
Subject: Backticks: What up?
References: <PZCcnT7qvI2rchPdRWPC-w@speakeasy.net>
Message-ID: <c6ms4s$aqn$1@news.vcd.hp.com>

Steven Brent wrote:

> I was wondering why the backticks in the following fragment:
> 
>         return 'Here's the result: ' + `self.data`
> 
> My guess is that in a return statement (as opposed to a print statement)
> it's necessary to do this in order to get the self.data instance attribute
> as a string, so it can be concatenated with the 'Here's the result: '
> string.
> 
> What exactly do the backticks do, then? Just return the result of an
> expression as a string? Does my guess make sense and / or is it correct?
> Elucidations and gentle ridicule welcome.
> 
> TIA.

I think `self.data` is equivalent to repr(self.data).

-Don



From cedmunds at spamless.rochester.rr.com  Wed Apr 14 17:56:45 2004
From: cedmunds at spamless.rochester.rr.com (Cy Edmunds)
Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2004 21:56:45 GMT
Subject: Missing Console in Pythonwin
References: <blEec.32176$M3.9711@twister.nyroc.rr.com>
	<mailman.561.1081818632.20120.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <xsifc.49056$e17.35410@twister.nyroc.rr.com>

"Mike C. Fletcher" <mcfletch at rogers.com> wrote in message
news:mailman.561.1081818632.20120.python-list at python.org...
> You've likely got the window showing up in a position within the MDI
> window which is actually off-screen.  Do a Window|Tile or Window|Cascade
> and it *should* show up in the MDI area again.
>
> HTH,
> Mike
>
> Cy Edmunds wrote:
>
> >Here's a weird one for you. Running Pythonwin on a Win2000 machine the
> >console suddenly stopped showing. I can turn it on and off and the
checkmark
> >comes and goes but nothing is visible. I can do a print preview and see
it
> >but that's it.
> >
> >I uninstalled and reinstalled (upgrading from 3.2.2 to 3.2.3) but still
no
> >luck. Any ideas?
> >
> >
> _______________________________________
>   Mike C. Fletcher
>   Designer, VR Plumber, Coder
>   http://members.rogers.com/mcfletch/
>
>
>

Mike- That did it! (Could have sworn I already tried that. hmm) Anyway
thanks.

-- 
Cy
http://home.rochester.rr.com/cyhome/




From jcarlson at uci.edu  Sun Apr 18 14:49:38 2004
From: jcarlson at uci.edu (Josiah Carlson)
Date: Sun, 18 Apr 2004 11:49:38 -0700
Subject: How to kill a SocketServer?
In-Reply-To: <donn-3172D0.09291613042004@nntp6.u.washington.edu>
References: <c5e6k3$jf4$1@newshispeed.ch> <c5epfl$67h$1@news.service.uci.edu>
	<c5esrr$ii$1@newshispeed.ch> <c5g4qc$hru$1@news.service.uci.edu>
	<donn-3172D0.09291613042004@nntp6.u.washington.edu>
Message-ID: <c5uiqo$ajv$1@news.service.uci.edu>

>>That is very interesting.
>>
>>After doing some research into heavily multi-threaded servers in Python 
>>a few years back, I discovered that for raw throughput, a properly 
>>written async server could do far better than a threaded one.
>>
>>If your request processing takes the most time, you may consider a 
>>communication thread and a processing thread.
>>
>>If your processing thread does a lot of waiting on a database or 
>>something else, it may make sense to have one communication thread, and 
>>a handful of database query threads.
>>
>>What part of a request takes up the most time?
> 
> 
> I wonder if you're making it more complicated than necessary.
> 
> The application uses a lot of CPU as it handles multiple
> concurrent client connections.  That makes a pretty clear
> case for some kind of parallel thread architecture, not
> only to dispatch inputs promptly but also to take advantage
> of commonly available SMP hardware.  As you acknowledge

Just because it handles multiple concurrent client connections, doesn't 
mean it is CPU bound.  Also, 'threading' in Python is not the same as 
'threading' in C or other languages.  I've got an SMP machine, and I've 
used threads in Python, and no matter what you do, it doesn't use the 
entirety of both processors (I've said as much in another discussion 
thread).  I don't know the case in other operating systems, but I would 
imagine you get the same thing, likely the result of the Python GIL.

One should also be aware that Python threads take up a nontrivial amount 
of processor to swap context, so now you're looking at a situation where 
many threads may not be as helpful as you (or even the original poster) 
expects.

Now, stackless with microthreads pretty much solve the "threads are 
slow" problem, but thinking without threads will work on all Python 
installations.


> above, the details of that architecture depend a lot on
> what exactly they're doing - how many connections over
> time, the nature of the request processing, etc.  But at

I agree, which is why I asked "what part of a request takes the most 
time".  Since the original poster hasn't replied yet, I expect he's 
figured out what needs to be done in his situation.


> any rate, now they have a thread waiting in accept, and they
> need to shake it loose.  My answer is `define a shutdown
> request as part of the service protocol', but maybe you
> would have a better idea.

Yeah, I would go asynchronous with a timeout.

while running:
     asyncore.poll(1)
sys.exit(0)

  - Josiah


From mgibson at tripwire.com  Fri Apr 16 17:37:31 2004
From: mgibson at tripwire.com (uebertester)
Date: 16 Apr 2004 14:37:31 -0700
Subject: md5.hexdigest() converting unicode string to ascii
References: <77b925de.0404151450.5c1f720a@posting.google.com><c5ohp8$fqf$1@absinth.dialog.net.pl>
	<mailman.687.1082117438.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<c5om3d$iu4$1@absinth.dialog.net.pl>
Message-ID: <77b925de.0404161337.3917ef56@posting.google.com>

"Krzysztof Stachlewski" <stach at fr.pl> wrote in message news:<c5om3d$iu4$1 at absinth.dialog.net.pl>...
> "Fredrik Lundh" <fredrik at pythonware.com> wrote in message
> news:mailman.687.1082117438.20120.python-list at python.org...
> 
> > (unicode characters are characters too, you know...)
> 
> You're right. :-)
> 
> Stach

None of the suggestions seem to address the issue.  sValue =
_winreg.QueryValueEx(y,"") returns a tuple containing the following
(u'http://', 1).  The string u'http://' is added to the md5 object via
the update() and then hashed via hexdigest().  How do I keep the
unicode string from being converted to ascii with the md5 functions? 
Or can I?

Thanks again.


From ae  Mon Apr 12 15:48:20 2004
From: ae (A Evans)
Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2004 12:48:20 -0700
Subject: A new OS
References: <107k441hitt2ld9@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <107lskfjvqvc3e5@corp.supernews.com>

Hello Everyone and thanks for the replies

Yes It would be an entire OS made from Python. When I have something started
I will come back to this forum and see then who would be interested. As
asking for support is the wrong choice of words.

What I should of said:

Does anyone have any ideas to implement something this large and once I have
a solid foundation to build from then who would be willing to help support
the development of this project

Thank You

A. Evans




From nw_moriarty at yahoo.com  Thu Apr 29 19:46:40 2004
From: nw_moriarty at yahoo.com (Nigel Moriarty)
Date: 29 Apr 2004 16:46:40 -0700
Subject: sockets and file locking
Message-ID: <ce0b6758.0404291546.7345ad19@posting.google.com>

Hi

I've written a client/server using sockets but I get client sends
intermixed at the server recieves.  I was thinking that a locking file
used as the connection might help.  Any ideas anyone?

It would be great if it worked on Unix and Windows.

Nigel


From greg at cosc.canterbury.ac.nz  Fri Apr 16 01:53:31 2004
From: greg at cosc.canterbury.ac.nz (Greg Ewing)
Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2004 17:53:31 +1200
Subject: Python CPU? (Re: Python OS)
In-Reply-To: <c5gc4n$s5q$1@swifty.westend.com>
References: <107j4eu6ffn2c68@corp.supernews.com>
	<c5gc4n$s5q$1@swifty.westend.com>
Message-ID: <c5nsct$3o9i6$1@ID-169208.news.uni-berlin.de>

Peter Maas wrote:
> The first step would probably be to define a Python OS. Surely no
> CPU speaks Python :)

Currently, no, but... *could* there be one?

In one of my wilder daydreaming moments recently, I got
to wondering what a machine designed from the ground up
to run Python code might be like. I got a vision of a
Python interpreter implemented in microcode, with a few
extra bytecodes for low-level hardware access, with an
OS written in Python running on top of it.

Would it run Python code any faster than an interpreter
running on an off-the-shelf CPU? Possibly not, but it's
not clear that it couldn't, either. In any case, it
would be a fun thing to design, and maybe even to build,
perhaps using an FPGA.

Anyone want to help?

-- 
Greg Ewing, Computer Science Dept,
University of Canterbury,	
Christchurch, New Zealand
http://www.cosc.canterbury.ac.nz/~greg



From andymac at bullseye.apana.org.au  Tue Apr 13 10:38:04 2004
From: andymac at bullseye.apana.org.au (Andrew MacIntyre)
Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2004 00:38:04 +1000 (EST)
Subject: How to kill a SocketServer?
In-Reply-To: <6tadnU3-4_n7QubdRVn-tw@powergate.ca>
References: <c5e6k3$jf4$1@newshispeed.ch> <c5epfl$67h$1@news.service.uci.edu>
	<c5esrr$ii$1@newshispeed.ch> <c5g4qc$hru$1@news.service.uci.edu>
	<6tadnU3-4_n7QubdRVn-tw@powergate.ca>
Message-ID: <20040413235818.V60495@bullseye.apana.org.au>

On Tue, 13 Apr 2004, Peter Hansen wrote:

> The OP indicated that "esp. the reaction time" was his concern, not
> throughput.  If he's right about that, then in principal he could well
> be right that an async server would not be the most appropriate.
> (I don't really believe that either, though...)

If you consider OS architecture, I'm aware of 2 basic streams of think
about process management:
- clone the existing process;
- start each new process from a clean slate.

The first approach includes Unix and the second includes MS-DOS &
derivatives (eg Windows & OS/2).

OSes built around the first appoach have been highly optimised in ways
that favour resource sharing by multiple processes, such as file handle
& socket inheritance.  This architecture tends to favour the async
process model, as the resource overhead per process is modest.

The second approach usually has a much higher cost when resource sharing
(like file handle & socket inheritance) is taken into account, as the
resource sharing has to be implemented after the new process has been
instantiated rather than as part of the instantiation.  As such, this
architecture tends to favour the threaded approach, as the resources are
much more easily shared.

I don't know what Cygwin's fork() performance is like, or what limitations
it might have, but I am familiar with the EMX fork() implementation on
32bit OS/2.  EMX's fork() is quite resource intensive, due to having to
synthesize a lot of machinery that is part of the infrastructure of Unix.
Yes, you can spawn() (which is relatively cheap), but then the
resources have to be explicitly managed at the application level with
associated costs.

By contrast, OS/2 is an environment highly developed for threads.
Similarly with Win32 in my understanding.

So it seems to me that the prevailing view that async is more effective
needs to be tempered with a view of resource costing.  IMHO, threaded
models have been adopted by software such as Apache and Firebird (nee
Interbase) for at least certain platforms and problem domains for
pragmatic reasons at least as much as political reasons.

--
Andrew I MacIntyre                     "These thoughts are mine alone..."
E-mail: andymac at bullseye.apana.org.au  (pref) | Snail: PO Box 370
        andymac at pcug.org.au             (alt) |        Belconnen  ACT  2616
Web:    http://www.andymac.org/               |        Australia



From missive at frontiernet.net  Thu Apr 15 11:15:11 2004
From: missive at frontiernet.net (Lee Harr)
Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2004 15:15:11 GMT
Subject: Python script to grep squid logs
References: <mailman.629.1081983544.20120.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3Gxfc.1767$dv3.959@news01.roc.ny>

> I am a newby python user, I want to create a script which will go
> through the squid log file and return me all the URL's accessed(i.e
> www.bbc.com). Is RE the way to go?
>


Not sure if this is just a programming exercise, or if you
want to get some work done... in any case you might want to
look at these:

http://www.squid-cache.org/Scripts/
http://www.mnot.net/squij/



From anand at easi.soft.net  Thu Apr  1 06:11:17 2004
From: anand at easi.soft.net (Anand K Rayudu)
Date: Thu, 01 Apr 2004 16:41:17 +0530
Subject: Python & COM
References: <84257D042AA7D411B3F700D0B7DB9B7C0723BD50@PDC-DSPACE>
Message-ID: <406BF8D5.4010604@easi.soft.net>

Hi Stefan,

Thanks a lot, It worked fine,
Also i could extend the same for all data types.
Thanks again.

Anand




From maurice.ulis at wanadoo.fr  Sat Apr 17 09:00:20 2004
From: maurice.ulis at wanadoo.fr (ulis)
Date: 17 Apr 2004 06:00:20 -0700
Subject: Goodbye TCL
References: <0LudnSads6NmpuPdRVn-vw@centurytel.net>
Message-ID: <29de415e.0404170500.544aa783@posting.google.com>

Just to add one.

ulis


From usenet at microtonal.co.uk  Mon Apr 12 13:41:28 2004
From: usenet at microtonal.co.uk (Graham Breed)
Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2004 18:41:28 +0100
Subject: String + number split
In-Reply-To: <2SAec.70005$Id.6002@news-binary.blueyonder.co.uk>
References: <2SAec.70005$Id.6002@news-binary.blueyonder.co.uk>
Message-ID: <YjBec.70215$Id.61871@news-binary.blueyonder.co.uk>

Stevie_mac wrote:

> Hello again, I can do this, but I'm sure there is a much more elegant way...
> 
> A string, with a number on the end, strip off the number & discard any underscores
> 
> eg...
> 
> font12        becomes         ('font',12)
> arial_14      becomes        ('arial',14)

Hmm, well, there's always

 >>> import re
 >>> def fsplit(s):
	matcher = re.compile('\d+$|_')
	return matcher.sub('', s), int(matcher.findall(s)[-1])

 >>> fsplit('font12')
('font', 12)
 >>> fsplit('arial14')
('arial', 14)
 >>> fsplit('__arial__bold_1_14')
('arialbold1', 14)

I'm scary enough that I probably would do it this way.


                Graham


From michele.simionato at poste.it  Thu Apr  1 22:33:49 2004
From: michele.simionato at poste.it (Michele Simionato)
Date: 1 Apr 2004 19:33:49 -0800
Subject: Prothon, metaclasses, Zope [Was: A 'Python like' language]
References: <95aa1afa.0403272243.78d60724@posting.google.com>
	<c4fq68$mk7$1@panix3.panix.com> <S7Lac.87628$cx5.10253@fed1read04>
	<95aa1afa.0404010017.2f1683b8@posting.google.com>
	<c4h6jh$n9f$1@panix1.panix.com>
Message-ID: <95aa1afa.0404011933.5cc5e959@posting.google.com>

aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz) wrote in message news:<c4h6jh$n9f$1 at panix1.panix.com>...
> In article <95aa1afa.0404010017.2f1683b8 at posting.google.com>,
> Michele Simionato <michele.simionato at poste.it> wrote:
> >
> > [...]
> 
> Michele, I just got a mailbox full error when I tried sending you
> e-mail.  Please fix.

It should work now. My address michele.simionato at poste.it is mostly
a span recipient I don't check often. Rea addresses I check every day are 
michelesimionato at libero.it and michele.simionato at partecs.com


     M.S.


From rawbobb at hotmail.com  Sun Apr 18 23:15:33 2004
From: rawbobb at hotmail.com (bobb)
Date: Mon, 19 Apr 2004 03:15:33 GMT
Subject: Python/Win based report generator for MySQL databases
References: <%zCgc.59345$oj6.9111@bignews6.bellsouth.net>
Message-ID: <pvHgc.8935$eK3.6886@nwrdny01.gnilink.net>

I'm using (banging my head against the wall, actually) with report lab.
very powerful...
it my be what you're looking for, or maybe too much.
I'm also doing reporting  results to the web using zope... that may be an
option also.
hth

bobb

"Robert Oschler" <no_replies at fake_email_address.invalid> wrote in message
news:%zCgc.59345$oj6.9111 at bignews6.bellsouth.net...
> Has anybody seen a nice Python 2.2+ compatible based module/package,
running
> on a Win2k box, that makes creating reports from a MySQL database easy?
>
> I am both a Python programmer and MySQL programmer so it doesn't have to
be
> too simple, just useful.
>
> Thanks
>
> Robert
>
>




From skip at pobox.com  Mon Apr 26 12:43:49 2004
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2004 11:43:49 -0500
Subject: Is Perl *that* good? (was: How's ruby compare to it older bro
In-Reply-To: <lNadndrvs_FarRDdRVn-vA@powergate.ca>
References: <mailman.18.1082989111.25742.python-list@python.org>
	<lNadndrvs_FarRDdRVn-vA@powergate.ca>
Message-ID: <16525.15429.719288.687059@montanaro.dyndns.org>


    Peter> I guess it would be interesting to pose the question back to them
    Peter> "If you could not use regexes in Perl, would you still like to
    Peter> program in it?" or "If you couldn't use mysql in PHP would you
    Peter> still use it?"

    Peter> What similar question, if any, would be a difficult one for us
    Peter> Python types?

"If Python didn't support indentation-based block structure would you still
use it?"

:-)

Skip




From lbates at swamisoft.com  Tue Apr 27 15:03:14 2004
From: lbates at swamisoft.com (Larry Bates)
Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2004 14:03:14 -0500
Subject: How to access outer class attribute from nested class
References: <c6m9dg$die$1@online.de>
Message-ID: <mb-dnQC8B5rRMhPd4p2dnA@comcast.com>

I use something like:

class SomeClass:
    SomeAttribute = 1

    class SomeNestedClass:
        SomeOtherAttribute = 2
        def __init__(self, parent):
            self.parent=parent
            return

        def SomeNestedClassMethod(self):
            print "%s-%s" % (
                self.parent.SomeAttribute,
                self.SomeOtherAttribute)

    def __init__(self):
        self.SNC=self.SomeNestedClass(self)
        return

if __name__=="__main__":
    a=SomeClass()
    a.SNC.SomeNestedClassMethod()


I pretty much stole this idea from wxWindows.

Larry Bates
Syscon, Inc.


"Heiko Henkelmann" <heiko at hhenkelmann.de> wrote in message
news:c6m9dg$die$1 at online.de...
> Please see the following example. Is there any other way to access
> SomeAttribute from the nested class, without having to use the actual
> name of the outer class?
>
>
> class SomeClass:
>      SomeAttribute = 1
>
>      class SomeNestedClass:
>          SomeOtherAttribute = 2
>
>          def SomeNestedClassMethod(cls):
>              print "%s%s" % (
>                  SomeClass.SomeAttribute
>                  cls.SomeOtherAttribute,
>                  )
>          SomeNestedClassMethod = classmethod(SomeNestedClassMethod)
>
> Thanx




From andrew-pythonlist at puzzling.org  Tue Apr 13 07:18:23 2004
From: andrew-pythonlist at puzzling.org (Andrew Bennetts)
Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2004 21:18:23 +1000
Subject: twisted dns server look so easy to set up... am i missing
	something? does it work?
In-Reply-To: <bf23f78f.0404122207.3bd501ad@posting.google.com>
References: <bf23f78f.0404122207.3bd501ad@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <20040413111823.GC549@frobozz>

On Mon, Apr 12, 2004 at 11:07:48PM -0700, Christian Seberino wrote:
> http://twisted.sourceforge.net/TwistedDocs-1.2.0rc2/howto/names.html
> 
> tells you how to create an authoritative dns server in a few lines!??
> 
> This is 10 times easier than bind and/or djbdns.
> 
> Am I missing something?  Does this really work that easily???
> 
> Anyone tried it?!

I've used it a little bit, and it worked fine.

-Andrew.




From dave at pythonapocrypha.com  Fri Apr 30 17:15:27 2004
From: dave at pythonapocrypha.com (Dave Brueck)
Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2004 15:15:27 -0600
Subject: Is classless worth consideration
References: <g9k090lhocd1nbd7g230br6ooub113hjt6@4ax.com><69cbbef2.0404290259.fd8d71c@posting.google.com><MbWdnTRxROYvZg3dRVn-uw@powergate.ca><69cbbef2.0404291209.7a98a799@posting.google.com><boydnb9qfrqWJQzdRVn-gw@powergate.ca><8ef9bea6.0404292307.66b78b83@posting.google.com><84Kdnfu3OoN4oA_dRVn-vg@powergate.ca>
	<69cbbef2.0404301243.451c7b26@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <026501c42ef8$42cd89b0$6b1e140a@YODA>

has wrote:
> Peter Hansen <peter at engcorp.com> wrote in message
news:<84Kdnfu3OoN4oA_dRVn-vg at powergate.ca>...
> > Hung Jung Lu wrote:
> >
> > > I have also pointed out previously that
> > > Python uses 5 devices where prototype-based needs only one: (a) class,
> > > (b) instance, (c) module, (d) metaclass, (e) scope. If this is not
> > > hideously baroque, then, Houston, we've got a problem. If you can
> > > really think outside the box, you'd pitch in also: (f) aspect.
> >
> > Well, (c) module is merely a packaging technique, not anything
> > to do specifically with OOP, so it shouldn't appear in a list
> > of "what do you think makes Python's OO model hideously baroque".
>
> Modules are an encapsulation mechanism, just like class instances, so
> I'd say the large and obvious overlap counts as unnecessary
> duplication of functionality that by rights ought to have been
> factored out of the language design early on.

No offsense, but this is faulty logic IMO. Just because two concepts can be
unified under the umbrella of another doesn't necessarily mean that elimination
of one or the other is the "right thing to do" if your goal is to make a good
programming language.

Personally I don't really care much about the discussions about purity or
theoretical language simplicity - the fact of the matter is that having modules
and classes is _useful_. If, under the covers, they are (nearly) identical - so
what? In practice it just so happens that they are handy ways to think about
things (one of the things that annoyed me about Java was that it _didn't_ have
modules).

One of the secrets of good language design is not heading too far down the path
of simplicity for the sake of simplicity. Not only are modules a useful
metaphor in big, real programs, they are useful in one-off scripts/apps where
you don't really care about OO, and they're useful when you're teaching
programming to newbies (they are a handy intermediate step in that they show
the basics of separation of functionality, code reuse, etc. without overloading
the student).

> So I think it's reasonable to count them, especially seeing how proto-OO
languages
> have no problems eliminating them as a distinct type.

It's certainly a matter of taste - for example, some of the Prothon examples
I've seen so far leave me with the impression that they are work-arounds
showing you how to get by without some language construct you really wish you
had - the I-don't-have-a-chisel-so-this-screwdriver-will-do feeling.

Perhaps proto-OO languages work really well in particular problem niches but
are less well-suited for general purpose work.

-Dave




From tjreedy at udel.edu  Sun Apr  4 00:29:10 2004
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Sun, 4 Apr 2004 00:29:10 -0500
Subject: OT (was Re: But it still doesn't explain the joke)
References: <mailman.189.1080759511.20120.python-list@python.org><kmjsj1-89u.ln1@snout.lairds.org>
	<c4glmq$j1i$1@swifty.westend.com><c4h6ad$lu0$1@panix1.panix.com><106o7vn56fgmt85@corp.supernews.com><XoWdnevUOvXsu_HdRVn-tA@powergate.ca><406F3C29.6030504@freedom.place>
	<c4nrgo$a98$1@news.service.uci.edu>
Message-ID: <c4o6f6$uro$1@sea.gmane.org>


"Josiah Carlson" <jcarlson at uci.edu> wrote in message
news:c4nrgo$a98$1 at news.service.uci.edu...
> Bush invades Iraq (killing thousands of innocents), lies about his
> reasons for it, gets caught in his lie, and lies some more.  Oh, and
> he's currently up for reelection.

Josiah, we could also discuss Clinton invading Serbia, killing thousands of
innocents, some intentionally, (to distract attention from his rape of
Juanita Broderick, in my opinion), or flip-flop Kerry consorting with
hate-America Marxist radicals, and his current relation therewith, but I
think it better that we, including you, maintain the political truce that
currently prevails on this newsgroup, which is a unique forum for
discussion Python, and leave such political discussions to more appropriate
fora.

Terry J. Reedy








From peter at engcorp.com  Sat Apr  3 22:10:38 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Sat, 03 Apr 2004 22:10:38 -0500
Subject: Typing \n in strings
In-Reply-To: <RGKbc.11130$yN6.10939@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net>
References: <RGKbc.11130$yN6.10939@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <n_KdneOMYeQy4fLdRVn-hA@powergate.ca>

Edward Diener wrote:

> Python 2.3.3 on Win2K. In the Python tutorial it says that typing \n in
> string literals is the new-line character. I open the interpreter and type a
> string with a \n in it but instead of outputting a string with a new line,
> it outputs the \n as literal characters of the string. Is the tutorial
> wrong, is the interpreter broken, or what is happening ?

Notice that there are also quotation marks around that string?  What
you are seeing is _not_ the string itself, but a printable
representation of the string.  Since it contains a newline, which is
not "printable" (by this definition, anyway) it converts it to \n
again.  Trust that the string really does contain the ASCII LF
character (byte value 10) however.  To prove it, and see the real
string, just print it:

 >>> 'test\nme'
'test\nme'
 >>> print 'test\nme'
test
me

Does that help?

Remember always that the interactive interpreter shows you the
expression using the repr() call, which with strings will give
you a representation that makes it clearer what non-printable
characters are contained therein.  Here's something that might
clear up any remaining questions:

 >>> print repr('test\nme')
'test\nme'

(Or, it might just raise more questions in your mind...
experimenting a little more should answer most of them. :-)

-Peter


From martin at v.loewis.de  Fri Apr  9 06:23:11 2004
From: martin at v.loewis.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?=22Martin_v=2E_L=F6wis=22?=)
Date: Fri, 09 Apr 2004 12:23:11 +0200
Subject: print u"\u0432": why is this so hard? UnciodeEncodeError
In-Reply-To: <mailman.474.1081470992.20120.python-list@python.org>
References: <cpa4qrvb529.fsf@cabernet.nelson.monkey.org>	<c52lu9$j8c$03$1@news.t-online.com>	<eppstein-55126D.00202008042004@news.service.uci.edu>	<c546v4$bi5$02$1@news.t-online.com>
	<mailman.474.1081470992.20120.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <c55tid$3s4$05$1@news.t-online.com>

Hye-Shik Chang wrote:
> The encoding of darwin terminal can be discovered by the routine
> currently we have.
> 
> perky$ LC_ALL=ko_KR.UTF-8 python

But that requires the user to set LC_ALL correctly. I'd rather
prefer if the standard installation of the system is supported,
where LC_ALL is not set. In particular, Terminal.App supports
changing its encoding through Settings, and I would like Python
to detect the current settings at startup time.

Regards,
Martin



From fpnews at fencepost.net  Wed Apr 21 04:45:44 2004
From: fpnews at fencepost.net (Alan Miller)
Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2004 08:45:44 GMT
Subject: mcmillan installer (Gordon is OK)
References: <mailman.575.1081855698.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<KzSec.628$2e6.535@lakeread01>
	<MPG.1aef42952679dacc989b4e@localhost>
Message-ID: <MPG.1aefee2358263269989b4f@localhost>

Got an email back from Gordon McMillan - he's had some other things he 
had to deal with lately, but he's still around. He didn't say when he 
might get back to dealing with his domain or installer, but hopefully 
things will clear up and it won't be too long.

ajm


From greg at cosc.canterbury.ac.nz  Tue Apr 27 01:08:16 2004
From: greg at cosc.canterbury.ac.nz (Greg Ewing)
Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2004 17:08:16 +1200
Subject: Is Perl *that* good? (was: How's ruby compare to it older bro
In-Reply-To: <roy-AEA452.13121026042004@reader2.panix.com>
References: <mailman.18.1082989111.25742.python-list@python.org>
	<lNadndrvs_FarRDdRVn-vA@powergate.ca>
	<108qcobc4m8g972@corp.supernews.com>
	<roy-AEA452.13121026042004@reader2.panix.com>
Message-ID: <c6kps2$cnung$1@ID-169208.news.uni-berlin.de>

Roy Smith wrote:
> 5 years from now, they'll be comfortably mainstream.  10 years 
> from now, they'll be old-fashioned.  And 20 years from now, they'll be 
> dinosaurs.  Don't let yourself become a dinosaur.

I suspect that, 20 years from now, there will still be
a language called Python, and it will still be quietly
and unobtrusively kicking all its competitors' backsides.

Whether it will bear any resemblance to the Python of
today is another matter...

-- 
Greg Ewing, Computer Science Dept,
University of Canterbury,	
Christchurch, New Zealand
http://www.cosc.canterbury.ac.nz/~greg



From pythongnome at hotmail.com  Sun Apr 25 10:18:31 2004
From: pythongnome at hotmail.com (Lucas Raab)
Date: Sun, 25 Apr 2004 14:18:31 GMT
Subject: python for console game development, memory tracking
References: <6soic.40551$c77.17448@newssvr29.news.prodigy.com>
	<IhBic.8575$Gp.6977@fe1.columbus.rr.com>
Message-ID: <XMPic.10667$gH6.7477@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net>


"Carl Banks" <imbosol at aerojockey.invalid> wrote in message
news:IhBic.8575$Gp.6977 at fe1.columbus.rr.com...
> Moosebumps wrote:
> >
> >
> > When I have time, I am planning to evaluate Python for console game
> > development (on Playstation 2, GameCube, and Xbox).  Does anyone have
any
> > experience with this?
> >
> > Pretty much the only resource I have found, and the only thing that
makes me
> > think it might be possible is this:
> >
> > http://asbahr.com/python.html
> >
> > I would be interested to hear anybody's experience with Python on
consoles.
>
> I can't speak for Game Cube or XBOX, but I have a Playstation running
> Linux, so I know a little.  I suspect Game Cube and XBOX have similar,
> but less severe, concerns.  Of course, since my Playstation has Linux
> and a big ol' hard drive, I am not constrained with memory as much as
> a native PS2 game would be.
>
> It seems that Python works just fine.  I was able to control graphics
> straight from Python using Numeric and a little C wrapper, and it
> worked pretty well.  It wasn't much of a demo, though, and of course
> almost all of the graphics work would be done from C anyways.  I don't
> have much more experience than a few graphics demos, though.
>
> One thing that bothers me a little is that Python uses double
> precision floats, but PS2 only supports single-precision natively.  I
> suspect most calculation-type code would be done in C, though.
>
>
> > Before I even begin investigating though, there is a major question I
have:
> > How can you track the memory usage of Python?  I would like to be able
to
> > track allocations by function / class, etc.  I have googled and seen a
bunch
> > of threads with 1 guy asking the same exact question that I am, and no
> > responses, which leads me to believe it's very easy or not possible.
This
> > would be dealbreaker unfortunately.  But I am optimistic that Python is
well
> > designed so there must be some solution.
>
> You're right that memory is probably the biggest factor against Python
> use, at least if you don't patch it.  If you use it for production
> work, I don't think there's any way you'd be able to use Python's
> regular memory allocation.  So, seeing that you'd have to use your own
> memory allocation, you can keep track of the stuff yourself.  Or you
> can use a library that works on PS2 and also does what you need.
>
>
> -- 
> CARL BANKS                      http://www.aerojockey.com/software
> "If you believe in yourself, drink your school, stay on drugs, and
> don't do milk, you can get work."
>           -- Parody of Mr. T from a Robert Smigel Cartoon

There is a similar thing for Xbox. You can download Linux onto your Xbox,
then hook up a mouse and keyboard to the memory ports on your controller. I
can't personally attest to how well that works. Since I can't exactly recall
where I saw it, you might try Googling "Xbox Linux".

Lucas




From weinhand at unileoben.ac.at  Wed Apr  7 04:12:15 2004
From: weinhand at unileoben.ac.at (Weinhandl Herbert)
Date: Wed, 07 Apr 2004 10:12:15 +0200
Subject: Python and postgres
In-Reply-To: <40735c00$1@clarion.carno.net.au>
References: <40735c00$1@clarion.carno.net.au>
Message-ID: <4073b7db$0$30786$3b214f66@aconews.univie.ac.at>

Steve wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> I have postgres 7.4.1 running on my server and I've been trying to find 
> a good python-postgres interface module. I installed Pygres on another 
> machine running Linux using a RPM release and it works. However, I need 
> to do the same for an alpha server and I can't find source files for 

you may want to try psycopg :

	http://www.initd.org/software/initd/psycopg

i've compiled it successfully on my machines.

it requires mxDateTime installed :

	http://www.egenix.com/files/python/egenix-mx-base-2.0.5.tar.gz

from Python's db-sig :
   psycopg (PostgreSQL)  	
     A DB-API 2.0 compliant driver designed to support heavily
     multithreaded applications with many cursors. Cursors can be very
     short-lived since the driver has an intelligent system for reusing
     db connections at libpq level. Supports thread level 2.

> PyGres that would compile with 7.4.1 anywhere. Can someone please help 
> me out? I need a good postgres python interface to work with.
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> Steve

Herbert


From peter at engcorp.com  Mon Apr 19 08:09:56 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Mon, 19 Apr 2004 08:09:56 -0400
Subject: Proposed PEP: Treating Builtins as Constants in the Standard
In-Reply-To: <c600af$22s$3@arcturus.ciril.fr>
References: <5d83790c.0404171557.3db69f48@posting.google.com>
	<c600af$22s$3@arcturus.ciril.fr>
Message-ID: <Eb-dnXlhDMUJXB7dRVn-iQ@powergate.ca>

Yermat wrote:

> Raymond Hettinger wrote:
>> PEP: 329
>> Title: Treating Builtins as Constants in the Standard Library
>> Author: Raymond Hettinger <python at rcn.com>
>>
>> Abstract
>> ========
>>
>> This proposal is to add a private function for treating builtin
>> references as constants and to apply that function throughout
>> the standard library.
> 
> Is it really a good thing to do it manually?
> Shouldn't be done automatically by a simple analyser?

Not requiring that it be done manually, or at least not providing
a simple means of disabling it, would prevent some kinds of
automated testing.  The most easily demonstrated one is where
the builtin open/file calls are replaced with a simulated ("mock")
file system which applies to *all* modules, not just a single
module under test.  This functionality is critical to some people
using Python with the Test-Driven Development approach to software.

-Peter


From ville at spammers.com  Thu Apr  1 14:28:08 2004
From: ville at spammers.com (Ville Vainio)
Date: 01 Apr 2004 22:28:08 +0300
Subject: Python conference slogan
References: <mailman.189.1080759511.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<kmjsj1-89u.ln1@snout.lairds.org> <c4glmq$j1i$1@swifty.westend.com>
	<30260531.0404010833.1b834032@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.242.1080839651.20120.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <du7ptara46v.fsf@lehtori.cc.tut.fi>

>>>>> "Shane" == Shane Hathaway <shane at zope.com> writes:

    >>> I surrender immediately and have to admit that I don't get it (One
    >>> Nation Under Under Python). Google was no help. I couldn't find the

    Shane> Ok, it's definitely not good.  It's a cross between the
    Shane> U.S. Pledge of Allegience and Python's use of
    Shane> double-underscores.  It was *not* intended to suggest that
    Shane> Python replaces deity. ;-)

Actually, it seems to bring up mostly fascistic connotations, esp. if
you are not American. Throw in the fact that we like to refer to Guido
as BDFL, and you are conveying a very unfortunate image ;-).

-- 
Ville Vainio   http://tinyurl.com/2prnb


From loic at fejoz.net  Tue Apr  6 07:50:02 2004
From: loic at fejoz.net (Yermat)
Date: Tue, 06 Apr 2004 13:50:02 +0200
Subject: design by contract versus doctest
In-Reply-To: <opr507ogk8yxrafp@nntphost.dur.ac.uk>
References: <407174ea$0$5066$4d4ebb8e@news.nl.uu.net>
	<T7Sdnf23r-IZGOzdRVn-sA@powergate.ca>
	<40718ddb$0$5071$4d4ebb8e@news.nl.uu.net>
	<IdadnapeW8YCCOzdRVn-jw@powergate.ca>
	<4071a6d4$0$5064$4d4ebb8e@news.nl.uu.net>
	<feKdnaUMq6w_MuzdRVn-jw@powergate.ca>
	<c4tkie$b19$2@arcturus.ciril.fr>
	<XbWdnWzpzoo5Fu_dRVn-ug@powergate.ca>
	<opr507ogk8yxrafp@nntphost.dur.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <c4u5i7$j87$1@arcturus.ciril.fr>

Colin Blackburn wrote:
> On Tue, 06 Apr 2004 06:51:16 -0400, Peter Hansen <peter at engcorp.com> wrote:
> 
>> Yermat wrote:
>>
>>> Peter Hansen wrote:
>>>
>>>> But I'm certainly no expert in (or proponent of) DBC...
>>>
>>>  see http://www.python.org/doc/essays/metaclasses/Eiffel.py
>>> to now how to do (at least one way to) design by contract in Python.
>>
>>
>> This doesn't appear to do what the OP says it should do.
>> I see preconditions which, while coded in separate methods
>> from the code for which it is written, still executes
>> every time the method is called.  That is, in terms of the
>> sequence of code, it's the same as just putting the check
>> in at the top of the called method.
> 
> 
> In this case yes because python does not support DbC within itself.  
> However, in a language that does support DbC (Eiffel) these checks can 
> be  turned on during the implementation phase and turned off in the 
> delivered  code. There are techniques in python, java and other 
> languages to  implement DbC using comments and documentation, ie the 
> contract checks are  only executed when a tool/module able to process 
> the structure comments is  loaded.
> 
> DbC though is about design rather than just a way testing of 
> parameters.  It is a philosophy of program design. See Object Oriented 
> Software  Construction, ed 2, by Bertrand Mayer.
> 
> Colin
> -- 

Hi,
Not really each time !
As it uses "assert", it is turn off by using -O option of python or by 
removing the metaclass ! So it work exactly as DBC implemented in 
Eiffel. His author is Bertrand Meyer (with an 'e').
So please re-read it again !

Yermat



From __peter__ at web.de  Mon Apr  5 08:43:45 2004
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Mon, 05 Apr 2004 14:43:45 +0200
Subject: How to assign a default constant value in a function declaration
References: <mailman.341.1081121191.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<Xns94C252B3C74BBrzed@63.223.5.95>
Message-ID: <c4rka1$btt$00$1@news.t-online.com>

rzed wrote:

> "Vineet Jain" <vineet at eswap.com> wrote in
> news:mailman.341.1081121191.20120.python-list at python.org:
> 
>> The following does not work although it seems like something you
>> should be able to do.
>> 
>> def someFunction(option=Constants.DEFAULT_VALUE):
>> 
> Do you mean in a context like this?
> 
>>>> class Const:
> ...    someVal=255
> ...    otherVal=0
> ...
>>>> Const.someVal
> 255
>>>> someVal=255
>>>> someVal
> 255
>>>> def blip(Const.someVal):
>   File "<stdin>", line 1
>     def blip(Const.someVal):
>                   ^
> SyntaxError: invalid syntax
>>>> def blip(someVal):
> ...    (no syntax error)
> 
> 
> I've wondered about that, too.

Stop wondering then: 

>>> class Constants:
...     DEFAULT_VALUE = 42
...
>>> def someFunction(option=Constants.DEFAULT_VALUE):
...     print "option =", option
...
>>> someFunction(1)
option = 1
>>> someFunction()
option = 42
>>> Constants.DEFAULT_VALUE = "another value"
>>> someFunction()
option = 42
>>> Constants = None
>>> someFunction()
option = 42

Here Constants might also be a module. The only constraint is that
Constants.DEFAULT_VALUE is bound when the function is defined, not when
it's called.

Peter



From fumanchu at amor.org  Wed Apr  7 16:25:08 2004
From: fumanchu at amor.org (Robert Brewer)
Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2004 13:25:08 -0700
Subject: Using function parameters to determine method kind
Message-ID: <DE1CF2B4FEC4A342BF62B6B2B334601E561FCB@opus.amorhq.net>

Lenard Lindstrom wrote:
> When I first posted my question on using a function's first parameter
> to determine method kind I had a very specific idea on how to
> implement it in Python. Type function becomes subtypable and several
> builtin subtypes are made available. The root type has no __get__
> descriptor method so is a static method by nature. It has two subtypes
> having __get__ methods: an instancefunction is what we now 
> call FunctionType, and a classfunction.
>8 
> My example module 'dparams.py' uses a metaclass to wrap functions in
> staticmethod or classmethod descriptors at class creation,
> but I consider this a less than ideal solution. And to implement
> it in Python means that 'object' can no longer be of type 'type'.
> I believe this is unacceptable. So I consider the issue of using
> parameters to determine method kind closed.

...it would not be a "less than ideal" solution, IMO, if it were built
into 'type' itself, rather than a metaclass. This is the foundation for
my recent crack at the decorator problem:
http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2004-April/044151.html,
which uses metaclasses as you indicate, but hopes for a day where the
same functionality would be provided without using metaclass, being
rather an integral part of the builtins "function", "classmethod",
"staticmethod", etc. It currently uses the metaclass to lazily bind the
actual function block to the function name, but a metaclass is not the
only (future, possible) way to do so.

> I made FunctionType subtypable just to prove a point...
> But if there is enough interest and I have the time I
> may try and do it again.

I'd be interested...mostly because I like clean syntax and all of the
proposed syntaxes for decorators are ugly IMO. :(


Robert Brewer
MIS
Amor Ministries
fumanchu at amor.org



From dgray at coldstorage.com  Sun Apr 25 23:28:02 2004
From: dgray at coldstorage.com (Doug Gray)
Date: Sun, 25 Apr 2004 23:28:02 -0400
Subject: urllib2 timeout??
Message-ID: <200404260329.XAA21138@mail>

Python2.3 on Redhat Linux 8.0 here is the code.

 

import urllib2

            import ClientCookie

            request =
urllib2.Request("http://fantasygames.sportingnews.com/crs/home_check_reg.htm
l",data='username=penngray1&password=testpwd')

            response = ClientCookie.urlopen(request)

            #return response.info()

            request2
=urllib2.Request("http://fantasygames.sportingnews.com/baseball/fullseason/u
ltimate/game/frozen_roster.html?user_id=6208")

            resp2 = ClientCookie.urlopen(request2)

            return resp2.read()

 

 

 

The ClientCookie is a 3rd party software that handles the Set-cookie stuff
on the client for me. This allows me to login into a site then access other
webpages from that site that need cookies set. The problem is that 50% of
the time it works and 50% of the time it fails. I assume this problem is a
time out problem

 

Is there a time out problem here, why is the connection so slow in the first
place. Is it my unix server?

 

Here is the error when it fails.

 

Traceback (most recent call last):
 
  File "/usr/lib/python2.3/site-packages/mod_python/apache.py", line 299, in
HandlerDispatch
    result = object(req)
 
  File "/usr/lib/python2.3/site-packages/mod_python/publisher.py", line 136,
in handler
    result = util.apply_fs_data(object, req.form, req=req)
 
  File "/usr/lib/python2.3/site-packages/mod_python/util.py", line 361, in
apply_fs_data
    return object(**args)
 
  File "/usr/local/apach2/fantasy/TSN/htmlRead.py", line 31, in getwebpage
    response = ClientCookie.urlopen(request)
 
  File "/usr/lib/python2.3/site-packages/ClientCookie/_urllib2_support.py",
line 829, in urlopen
    return _opener.open(url, data)
 
  File "/usr/lib/python2.3/site-packages/ClientCookie/_urllib2_support.py",
line 520, in open
    response = urllib2.OpenerDirector.open(self, req, data)
 
  File "/var/tmp/python2.3-2.3.3-root/usr/lib/python2.3/urllib2.py", line
326, in open
    '_open', req)
 
  File "/var/tmp/python2.3-2.3.3-root/usr/lib/python2.3/urllib2.py", line
306, in _call_chain
    result = func(*args)
 
  File "/usr/lib/python2.3/site-packages/ClientCookie/_urllib2_support.py",
line 754, in http_open
    return self.do_open(httplib.HTTP, req)
 
  File "/usr/lib/python2.3/site-packages/ClientCookie/_urllib2_support.py",
line 612, in do_open
    raise URLError(err)
 
URLError: 
 

 

 

 

Thanks in advance

Doug

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From dustin at myaddress.net  Wed Apr 21 15:40:19 2004
From: dustin at myaddress.net (Dustin)
Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2004 19:40:19 GMT
Subject: Python editors for Windows question
Message-ID: <D6Ahc.2737911$iA2.315963@news.easynews.com>

Hello,

I just started programming in Python last night, and I've really enjoyed my
experience so far. I would like to know if there is a Windows editor that
recognizes Python and will support a module syntax/definition lists For
instance, let's say that I set form = cgi and then when I hit the period
(".") on the keyboard, a list of objects shows up, such as FieldStorage(),
etc.. Any suggestions are appreciated. Thank you!

Dustin




From dkuhlman at rexx.com  Sun Apr 18 15:54:38 2004
From: dkuhlman at rexx.com (Dave Kuhlman)
Date: Sun, 18 Apr 2004 12:54:38 -0700
Subject: AOP use cases
References: <84fc4588.0404140106.3fa0c55@posting.google.com>
	<slrnc7q1ss.1aa.alf@largo.fayauffre.org>
	<cb035744.0404141130.170f51c4@posting.google.com>
	<slrnc7sgat.vp.alf@largo.fayauffre.org>
	<cb035744.0404160442.2f0b1661@posting.google.com>
	<0pydnSB4WYuieuLdRVn-hQ@powergate.ca>
	<1082n594lndh27f@news.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <c5umdd$5p4fj$1@ID-139865.news.uni-berlin.de>

John Roth wrote:

> "Peter Hansen" <peter at engcorp.com> wrote in message
> news:0pydnSB4WYuieuLdRVn-hQ at powergate.ca...
>> Will Stuyvesant wrote:
>>
>> > What are good usage examples?
>>

[snip]

> 
> I suspect you're not going to get any really compelling ones.

Isn't AOP antithetical to the Pythonic admonition to make
everything explicit?

    "Explicit is better than implicit."
        -- The Zen of Python (by Tim Peters)

You can stare at a section of AOP code as intently as you like,
and never discover the changes that are woven into it.

A little more zen:

    "Mysterious is the worst of all."

Dave

[snip]

> 
> John Roth

-- 
http://www.rexx.com/~dkuhlman
dkuhlman at rexx.com


From nicksjacobson at yahoo.com  Fri Apr 30 02:06:02 2004
From: nicksjacobson at yahoo.com (Nick Jacobson)
Date: 29 Apr 2004 23:06:02 -0700
Subject: static keyword
References: <mailman.113.1083254129.25742.python-list@python.org>
	<f8097096.0404291403.400304ee@posting.google.com>
	<WeKdnUQ3hq4BKwzdRVn-hg@powergate.ca>
Message-ID: <f8097096.0404292206.27b39adb@posting.google.com>

Peter Hansen <peter at engcorp.com> wrote in message news:<WeKdnUQ3hq4BKwzdRVn-hg at powergate.ca>...
> Nick Jacobson wrote:
> 
> > Yes, that is excellent.  Thank you very much. :)
> > 
> > The good news: you can reset all your "static" data whenever you want,
> > by calling foo().  Can't do that in C.
> > 
> > The bad news: I just hope I don't forget and call foo() instead of
> > g.next().
> > I would rather the command foo() by default call the next iteration,
> > and, say, foo().reset() would recall the function from scratch.  But
> > that's neither here nor there..
> 
> Do this then (and this is, if not a hack, at least unusual style):
> 
> >>>def foo_reset():
>       # same as previous foo was, just renamed
> 
> >>>foo = foo_reset().next
> >>>foo()
> First pass
> 11
> >>>foo()
> 12
> 
> Happy now?  ;-)
> 
> -Peter

Yes, in fact that's very clever.  Thanks! :)


From __peter__ at web.de  Tue Apr  6 09:08:37 2004
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Tue, 06 Apr 2004 15:08:37 +0200
Subject: recursive file editing
References: <pan.2004.04.03.20.25.28.565809@interfree.it>
	<c4on0d$frb$02$1@news.t-online.com>
	<pan.2004.04.06.11.57.59.82978@interfree.it>
Message-ID: <c4ua4l$mm1$05$1@news.t-online.com>

TaeKyon wrote:

> Il Sun, 04 Apr 2004 12:11:25 +0200, Peter Otten ha scritto:
> 
>> The following code comes with no warranties. Be sure to backup valuable
>> data before trying it. You may need to edit the regular expressions. Call
>> the script with the directory you want to process.
> 
> Seems to work all right !
> I have a question:
> 
>> class Path(object):
> # multiple function definitions follow, amongst which:
> 
>> def files(rootfolder):
>>     for folder, folders, files in os.walk(rootfolder):
>>         for name in files:
>>             yield Path(folder, name)
> 
> So 'Path' is the name of a class and _contemporaneously_ the
> result of one of the functions the class contains ?

No, the functions up to __str__() are indented one level. This means they
belong to the Path class, i. e. they are methods.
In contrast, files() is a standalone function - or more precisely a
generator. As a rule of thumb you can tell functions from methods by
looking at the first parameter - if it's called "self" it's a method.

As a side note, though it's not the case here it is possible for a class to
have methods that return new instances of the same class (or even the same
instance which is what a considerable fraction of python users wishes for
list.sort()).
For example:

class Path(object):
    # ... as above
    def child(self, name):
        """ create a new Path instance denoting a 
            child of the current path """
        return Path(self.path, name)
    def __repr__(self):
        """ added for better commandline experience :-) """
        return "Path(%r)" % self.path   

Now try it:

>>> from processtree import Path
>>> p = Path("/path/to", "folder")
>>> p.child("file")
Path('/path/to/folder/file')
>>> p.child("sub").child("subsub")
Path('/path/to/folder/sub/subsub')

> Or are there really two separate 'Path' things which don't interfere
> because each has its own namepace ?

No, every Path(folder, name) creates a new Path instance as defined above.
When you see Class(arg1, arg2, ..., argN), under the hood Python creates a
new instance of Class and calls the special __init__(self, arg1, ..., argN)
method with the instance as the first (called self by convention) and
arg1,..., argN as the following arguments.

> I'm sorry for the repeated questions, maybe I should take this discussion
> over to the tutor mailing list !

I suggest that you stick with with the simpler approach in my later post
until you have a firm grip of classes. For the task at hand the Path class
seems overkill, now I'm reconsidering it.

Peter


From peter.maas at mplusr.de  Tue Apr 20 04:04:35 2004
From: peter.maas at mplusr.de (Peter Maas)
Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 10:04:35 +0200
Subject: Dollar sign ($) on foriegn keyboards? (prothon)
In-Reply-To: <c62jtr$21r$1@newsread.albacom.net>
References: <mk3hc.13895$dZ1.10823@fed1read04>
	<c62jtr$21r$1@newsread.albacom.net>
Message-ID: <c62ler$qnh$1@swifty.westend.com>

LB wrote:
> $ is a shift-key on italian standard keyboard.

Also on german standard keyboard.

Mit freundlichen Gruessen,

Peter Maas

-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Peter Maas, M+R Infosysteme, D-52070 Aachen, Hubert-Wienen-Str. 24
Tel +49-241-93878-0 Fax +49-241-93878-20 eMail peter.maas at mplusr.de
-------------------------------------------------------------------


From newsgroups at jhrothjr.com  Mon Apr 26 10:09:09 2004
From: newsgroups at jhrothjr.com (John Roth)
Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2004 10:09:09 -0400
Subject: About generators
References: <peap80pkk0c5a7d9rliq159sbaof2mu5kr@4ax.com>
	<L-6dnRq_ZvsmjBDdRVn_iw@powergate.ca>
Message-ID: <108q607fjni5ba5@news.supernews.com>


"Peter Hansen" <peter at engcorp.com> wrote in message
news:L-6dnRq_ZvsmjBDdRVn_iw at powergate.ca...
> Andrea Griffini wrote:
>
> > I'm new to python and I really like what I've seen so far
> > with just one exception; the absence of a nice syntax
> > for ranges of integers. I've read PEPs about allowing
> >
> >    for i in 10:
> >      print i
> >
> > and I must say I don't like it very much, but I didn't
> > find a discussion about what looks more natural
> >
> >    for i in 0...9:
> >      print i
> >
> > or
> >
> >    squares = [x*x for x in 1...100]
> >
> > that is having "expr1 ... expr2" returning an iterator
> > from expr1 to expr2 (second limit included).
> >
> > Has this been considered ? If yes (as I suppose) where
> > can I find and explanation about it ?
>
> Google Groups is always helpful for such questions:
>
>
http://groups.google.com/groups?q=integer+range+syntax&meta=group%3Dcomp.lang.python.*
>
> This leads to various threads, such as the "Re: Thoughts on PEP284"
> which had the same proposal as yours and what is, I believe, an
> adequate reason for rejecting it.

As far as I can tell, the appropriate PEP to reference
is 204: range literals. That one proposed using slice
notation, and it was firmly rejected.

I frankly like the idea since .. or ... is an operator, so it
naturally leads to a magic method or two, opening the
door to other types of ranges, such as reals or dates,
etc...

John Roth
>
> -Peter




From andy47 at halfcooked.com  Tue Apr  6 17:27:53 2004
From: andy47 at halfcooked.com (Andy Todd)
Date: Tue, 06 Apr 2004 22:27:53 +0100
Subject: IBM Developerworks: Learn how to write DB2 JDBC tools in Jython
In-Reply-To: <66a61715.0404041039.2972d92b@posting.google.com>
References: <3ea34487.0404031654.596cbd06@posting.google.com>
	<66a61715.0404041039.2972d92b@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <c4v7cp$io0$1@sea.gmane.org>

Buck Nuggets wrote:
> workingdudetor at yahoo.com (Neo) wrote in message news:<3ea34487.0404031654.596cbd06 at posting.google.com>...
> 
>>Java Libraries + Python Syntax 
>>
>>
>>ttp://www-106.ibm.com/developerworks/db2/library/techarticle/dm-0404yang/index.html
> 
> 
> It's always nice to see more support for agile languages with db2.  I
> know that there's a ton of support for java, but frankly I'm far more
> interested in seeing db2 for fast-moving tiger-teams than for
> slow-moving and massive projects.  With that in mind great support for
> python, ruby, php, perl, etc is essential.
> 
> ks

Sadly DB2 UDB isn't exactly the most developer friendly database out 
there. Whilst it's rock solid in a production environment it doesn't 
offer a lot of support during the development phase of a project. When 
your schema is changing more than once in a blue moon you can spend an 
awful lot of time adapting;

http://www.halfcooked.com/mt/archives/000490.html
http://www.halfcooked.com/mt/archives/000491.html
http://www.halfcooked.com/mt/archives/000507.html

Regards,
Andy
-- 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 From the desk of Andrew J Todd esq - http://www.halfcooked.com/




From RobMEmmons at cs.com  Wed Apr 14 22:16:21 2004
From: RobMEmmons at cs.com (Robert M. Emmons)
Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2004 21:16:21 -0500
Subject: Starting a Python COM server from vb?
In-Reply-To: <l%Rec.48962$1y1.14543@nwrdny03.gnilink.net>
References: <fQAec.12308$d8.1258@nwrdny01.gnilink.net>
	<407B3592.7010508@cs.com>
	<l%Rec.48962$1y1.14543@nwrdny03.gnilink.net>
Message-ID: <407DF075.4030900@cs.com>


> How do I ensure that the service is registered?  Does this need to
> happen after every bootup?

I recommend highly the book:  Python Programming on Win32 by Mark 
Hammond and Andy Robinson ISBN: 1-56592-621-8.  This should anwser many 
of your questions regarding Python and windows.  They talk both about 
COM/ACTIVEX and about windows Servicies.

The short answer to your question--I think it really depends on what you 
want.  If you really want to run a "Service" in the windows sense, then 
yes you probably have to launch this at boot time.  Generally Servicies 
or Daemons are just programs that run in the background.  There is a way 
to run these at startup on windows.  I can't remember exactly how -- I'm 
thinking there is a "Servicies" control panel(???)

On the other hand if your talking about COM/ActiveX Servers that is a 
totally different thing.  These are not Servicies.  There is a standard 
way of writing these in Python using the win-32all package -- i.e. the 
python windows extnesions.  It is to complicated for me to explain 
directly here...though it is not difficult.  You need the book or 
another reference in front of you.  Basically to setup a server you have 
to add some special attributes to the classes that you want to register, 
then some code that does the registration.  The registration is 
peristant.  You put your program in some fixed location and then 
register it once and it's good always.  I've done this to write nice 
little utilities to call from VBA in Excel.  Works nice.

The book I referenced by the way covers both COM/ActiveX and Servicies 
to regarless of your interest it should have some information.

Rob




From dmq at gain.com  Fri Apr 23 20:59:06 2004
From: dmq at gain.com (David MacQuigg)
Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2004 17:59:06 -0700
Subject: Why we will use obj$func() often
References: <84Uhc.22278$dZ1.5087@fed1read04>
	<mailman.927.1082665370.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<8AWhc.23114$dZ1.11070@fed1read04> <40883BFE.B381518A@alcyone.com>
	<27_hc.23801$dZ1.2716@fed1read04> <40887145.789A2FE8@alcyone.com>
	<7cki80hj976bia36lhf9er97v073o1pqvm@4ax.com>
	<w8dic.28710$dZ1.11206@fed1read04> <ulXiAls/KH1K089yn@the-wire.com>
	<lkfic.29767$dZ1.17301@fed1read04>
	<donn-66132E.15345723042004@nntp3.u.washington.edu>
	<PLhic.30493$dZ1.22063@fed1read04>
Message-ID: <0kdj80hcdeo7igf1enbqf44gohhfhkff0u@4ax.com>

On Fri, 23 Apr 2004 16:36:15 -0700, "Mark Hahn" <mark at prothon.org>
wrote:

>
>"Donn Cave" <donn at u.washington.edu> wrote ...
>
>> What you're doing there looks to me a bit like Objective
>> CAML's ref type.  "a = ref 0" is a mutable container for an
>> immutable integer.  It's just syntactic sugar for a mutable
>> record;  the sugar is the assignment a := 1, and then there's
>> some special dereference notation -- a := !a + 1, something
>> like that, I forget.
>
>I'm not doing anything nearly that complex.  &var just gives access to the
>outer closure scope and directly accesses var in that scope, just like
>accessing a global variable.  It isn't just syntax sugar for var[0] because
>it has none of the list overhead associated with the var[0] kludge.  & just
>tells the compiler where to find the variable, just like capitalized
>variables in Prothon say to find them in the global space and .var says to
>find var in self.
>
>The whole point is to make things simpler, more readable, and more
>efficient, but when people see the & symbol they somehow automatically think
>it's complex.  Maybe my mind doesn't work like everyone else's.

I think you are misunderstanding the objections to the proposed
features.  I see on this thread very little knee-jerk reaction to a
new symbol.  Its the accumulation of symbols and special syntax for
little problems that will cause a big problem.  In my first post on
this thread I pointed out the problem:

-- Perl-like syntax:
Special symbols and capitalization to indicate variable scope,
closures, dynamic variables, etc.   
   local, Global, .x, ^x, X, &x, x, @x

Yes, I did use the P word, but my criticism is *not* over the choice
of symbols.  What I worry about is the complexity which will result
when all these little features become commonly used, and students are
accessing variables all over the place instead of thinking about the
structure of their programs, and figuring out how to solve a problem
with simple syntax and structures.

Once you add something like &x to a language, you can never take it
out.  Not only will you break existing code, but you will break the
hearts of all those who now cannot write a program without that
feature.

I'm not trying to give you a hard time. I just don't see the value in
providing elegant syntax for obscure problems like &x.  I'm not saying
the value isn't there.  I just don't see it in what you have posted so
far, and I'm a bit put off by your statement that you don't have time
to put together a use-case.

If I were you I would postpone all these embellishments, and the
associated discussions, and focus on the one really good thing in
Prothon, your simplification of classes.  If you can do that in a way
that doesn't make migration from Python difficult, you will have a
winner.

-- Dave





From claird at lairds.com  Sat Apr  3 19:32:21 2004
From: claird at lairds.com (Cameron Laird)
Date: Sun, 04 Apr 2004 00:32:21 -0000
Subject: emergent/swarm/evolutionary systems etc
References: <c4aeq8$92a$1@hercules.btinternet.com>
Message-ID: <106ulsl62h4f8df@corp.supernews.com>

In article <c4aeq8$92a$1 at hercules.btinternet.com>,
Peter MacKenzie <peter9547 at btinternet.com> wrote:
>Hello, I'm Peter, and I'm very much a newbie.
			.
		[recapitulation of
		ancestral lore centering
		on von Neumann, Turing,
		...]
			.
			.
Do you know that there are Usenet newsgroups that focus on
these specific domains, including
  comp.ai.alife
  comp.theory.self-org-sys
  sci.systems
  sci.anthropology
  sci.nonlinear
  alt.folklore.computers
  bionet.info-theory
?
-- 

Cameron Laird <claird at phaseit.net>
Business:  http://www.Phaseit.net


From newsgroups at jhrothjr.com  Wed Apr 14 20:23:40 2004
From: newsgroups at jhrothjr.com (John Roth)
Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2004 20:23:40 -0400
Subject: Pygame
References: <c5jdv2$s4$1@orkan.itea.ntnu.no>
	<107qkrbhnjpmh9b@news.supernews.com>
	<c5jpkb$6th$1@orkan.itea.ntnu.no>
Message-ID: <107rlp0in3r1k76@news.supernews.com>


"Alexander R?dseth" <alexanro at stud.ntnu.no> wrote in message
news:c5jpkb$6th$1 at orkan.itea.ntnu.no...
> > Why should it be?
>
> Because it's inconsistent that Python includes many platform-specific and
> hardware-specific modules,
> and even gui-modules like Tkinter, but, afaik, no way at all to create
> fullscreen and/or hw-accelerated graphics.
>
>
> > In looking thorough the libarary, I find that
> > everything there is a developer tool of some
> > sort. The few executables are things like
> > unittest which are standard parts of the
> > developer's tool chain.
>
> I agree pretty much with Peter's reply.
> How exactly did you "look through the library"?
> Looking at http://docs.python.org/modindex.html, I find modules for sound,
> xml, graphics, mail, a web-server and even the deprecated and insecure
> "Enigma-like encryption and decryption". :-)

Let's take a look at that. Sound support is on the same level as
the SDL package that Pygame is based on. XML is a developer
tool. Graphics support is pretty weak except for the TK toolkit,
which supports the standard windows paradigm. While not everyone
likes TK, the function is, at least, pretty pervasively needed.

There's a pretty large selection of tools that support internet
protocols, including the mail package you refer to. Etc.

What I don't find is support for specialty application areas.
Games are a specialty application area.

> Python is supposed to be "batteries included", but still hasn't got native
> support for fullscreen graphics.

Pygame is layered on top of SDL, which in turn is layered on
top of Open GL. If the issue is support for full screen 3d graphics,
(which wasn't apparent from your initial post), I would suggest that
either of those would be a better candidate. In fact, I certainly wouldn't
object to including an interface to Open GL.

> Granted, Pygame might not be the optimal solution, due to licensing issues
> (or whatever other reason might appeal to you), but IMHO, there should be
a
> module included that allowed for similar functionality.
>
> - Alexander
>
>




From gabriel.cooper at mediapulse.com  Fri Apr 16 11:13:39 2004
From: gabriel.cooper at mediapulse.com (Gabriel Cooper)
Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2004 11:13:39 -0400
Subject: Newbie question: matching
In-Reply-To: <fc49c257.0404151513.8ea0ad1@posting.google.com>
References: <fc49c257.0404151513.8ea0ad1@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <407FF823.8070207@mediapulse.com>



josh R wrote:

>Hi all,
>
>I am trying to write some python to parse html code.  I find it easier
>to do in perl, but would like to learn some basic python.  My code
>looks like this:
>  
>
You will be doing yourself a disservice if you do this by hand. Check 
out http://www.diveintopython.org/ .. it's a free online book (also 
available in print). Jump to the chapter on XML parsing. You'll save 
yourself loads of time and effort, and you'll take advantage of the 
python libraries. After all, python *is* supposed to be "batteries 
included."



From roy at panix.com  Tue Apr 27 08:35:16 2004
From: roy at panix.com (Roy Smith)
Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2004 08:35:16 -0400
Subject: Is Perl *that* good?
References: <c6ich0$c5mee$1@ID-205437.news.uni-berlin.de>
	<iL3jc.232$Yc.2330@news4.e.nsc.no>
	<108q51j4dscn7dc@corp.supernews.com>
	<knbjc.267$id.3998@news2.e.nsc.no>
	<pan.2004.04.26.20.50.19.843510@hotmail.com>
	<87fzaqmm8t.fsf@strauser.com>
	<38ec68a6.0404262308.50029919@posting.google.com>
	<du765bles9i.fsf@lehtori.cc.tut.fi>
Message-ID: <roy-830B7D.08351627042004@reader2.panix.com>

Ville Vainio <ville at spammers.com> wrote:

> >>>>> "Asun" == Asun Friere <afriere at yahoo.co.uk> writes:
> 
>     Asun> Wouldn't you need to import the re module and compile the
>     Asun> pattern first?  (And wouldn't you use 'search' rather than
>     Asun> 'match'?)  And
> 
> I rarely compile regexps, just pass the string to the re functions.

For the occasional ad-hoc match, this is fine.  The advantage of 
pre-compiling is that it's faster, since it doesn't have to recompile 
the regex each time.

I don't see anything in the reference manual which says re.match() 
caches compilations, but I suspect it does.  Even a trivial check for 
"thisRegEx is lastRegEx" would be sufficient to negate the speed 
advantage of pre-compiling in most cases.  Anybody know if it does this?


From peter at engcorp.com  Sat Apr 17 02:31:17 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Sat, 17 Apr 2004 02:31:17 -0400
Subject: AOP use cases
In-Reply-To: <slrnc81i28.fm2.joe@gate.notcharles.ca>
References: <84fc4588.0404140106.3fa0c55@posting.google.com>
	<slrnc7q1ss.1aa.alf@largo.fayauffre.org>
	<cb035744.0404141130.170f51c4@posting.google.com>
	<slrnc7sgat.vp.alf@largo.fayauffre.org>
	<cb035744.0404160442.2f0b1661@posting.google.com>
	<0pydnSB4WYuieuLdRVn-hQ@powergate.ca>
	<35qdnT4kNsX1kB3dRVn-gg@powergate.ca>
	<slrnc81i28.fm2.joe@gate.notcharles.ca>
Message-ID: <AZ-dnUNqC9-oUh3dRVn-jw@powergate.ca>

Joe Mason wrote:
> In article <35qdnT4kNsX1kB3dRVn-gg at powergate.ca>, Peter Hansen wrote:
> 
>>The logging example is okay, yes, but another problem I have
>>with it is that it's very development-oriented.  It doesn't
>>do anything directly for the user in terms of helping implement
>>user functionality.  Same goes for the contract aspect, which
> 
> 
> It does if generating usage reports is a user requirement.  Call logging
> in a telephony app, for instance.

Sorry, but that doesn't fly.  That's a clearly separate function
that should have a simple, single call somewhere in the application.

The AOP logging example is talking about a "cross-cutting concern"
(did I get that right?) where one wants to log *all method calls*
in an object.  It's a developer tool, not something that you would
use for call logging.

And even if it were, I'm still looking for real-world examples, not
hypothetical ones.

-Peter


From rick.ratzel at magma-da.com  Tue Apr 27 00:48:56 2004
From: rick.ratzel at magma-da.com (Rick L. Ratzel)
Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2004 04:48:56 GMT
Subject: Compiler
References: <q6gjc.1945$VA1.1741@doctor.cableinet.net>
Message-ID: <408DE6B3.3050104@magma-da.com>


    You can do this:

python -c "import py_compile; py_compile.compile( \"foo.py\", \"foo.pyc\" )"

    ...which will create foo.pyc *only*, and will not compile any other 
.py files imported by foo.py.

Steven wrote:
> Hi folks,
> 
> Just curious, is there a python compiler?
> Or something that creates bytecode, like java?
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Steven



From mcfletch at rogers.com  Mon Apr 12 21:10:13 2004
From: mcfletch at rogers.com (Mike C. Fletcher)
Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2004 21:10:13 -0400
Subject: Missing Console in Pythonwin
In-Reply-To: <blEec.32176$M3.9711@twister.nyroc.rr.com>
References: <blEec.32176$M3.9711@twister.nyroc.rr.com>
Message-ID: <407B3DF5.1080204@rogers.com>

You've likely got the window showing up in a position within the MDI 
window which is actually off-screen.  Do a Window|Tile or Window|Cascade 
and it *should* show up in the MDI area again.

HTH,
Mike

Cy Edmunds wrote:

>Here's a weird one for you. Running Pythonwin on a Win2000 machine the
>console suddenly stopped showing. I can turn it on and off and the checkmark
>comes and goes but nothing is visible. I can do a print preview and see it
>but that's it.
>
>I uninstalled and reinstalled (upgrading from 3.2.2 to 3.2.3) but still no
>luck. Any ideas?
>  
>
_______________________________________
  Mike C. Fletcher
  Designer, VR Plumber, Coder
  http://members.rogers.com/mcfletch/





From vincent at visualtrans.de  Tue Apr 20 16:28:33 2004
From: vincent at visualtrans.de (vincent wehren)
Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 22:28:33 +0200
Subject: python
In-Reply-To: <mailman.751.1082368163.20120.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.751.1082368163.20120.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <c6415i$cnc$1@news3.tilbu1.nb.home.nl>

Limor Hevroni wrote:
> Hi , 
> I consider using python as the programming language for an alpha testing
> project.
> I wonder whether any of you are using python in such a way, what is the best
> development environment for python, is anyone used python for massive
> project s with QA tendency ? is anyone used python with TestDirector ?

At the company I work for we use Python among other things to drive 
automated QA test scenarios for the ERP software system (massive by 
nature) we develop. This involved quite some embedding/extending in 
C/C++ though.  Our users can use Python for dialog/screen scripting, GUI 
customization. In addition it used as scripting language for our print 
and reporting engine.

Vincent Wehren
>  
> I would love to get answers on taht since I am running out if time,
> development should start very soon.
> The programming language I am considering is python and java, I would love
> to get more info fro m people who use python in a working projects.
> 10x.
> limor hevrony
> Spediant Systems Ltd.
>  
> 
> 
>   _____  
> 
>  
> <http://promos.hotbar.com/promos/promodll.dll?RunPromo&El=hotbar%5felement%3
> bst%3b&SG=&RAND=70373&partner=hotbar> Upgrade Your Email - Click here! 
> 
>  
> 
> 
> 


From fumanchu at amor.org  Tue Apr 13 14:14:33 2004
From: fumanchu at amor.org (Robert Brewer)
Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2004 11:14:33 -0700
Subject: Adding properties to objects
Message-ID: <DE1CF2B4FEC4A342BF62B6B2B334601E561FF0@opus.amorhq.net>

John Roth wrote:
> "Matthew Barnes" <matthew at barnes.net> wrote in message
> news:3a8e83d2.0404130906.2ea796e9 at posting.google.com...
> > Is it possible to add properties to objects dynamically?
> >
> > I have an instance (x) of some new-style class (Foo), and I 
> would like
> > to be able to do something like:
> >
> > >>> x = Foo()
> > >>> x.myproperty = property(getsomething, setsomething, 
> delsomething);
> > >>> x.myproperty        # invokes getsomething
> > >>> x.myproperty = 1    # invokes setsomething
> > >>> del x.myproperty    # invokes delsomething
> 
> The property definition only lives in a class; you cannot add
> a property to an instance by itself. Well, you can but it won't
> be evaluated as a property by the default __getattribute__()
> magic method.
> 
> To make a property work on an instance basis you'd have
> to have a specialty __getattribute__() magic method in the
> class. That's left as an exercise for the reader.

However, Matthew, you can dynamically add a property to the *class*,
e.g.:

class Property(object):
    def __get__(self, obj):
        pass
    def __set__(self, obj, value):
        pass

Foo.setattr(propertyname, Property())

...read Raymond Hettinger's How-To Guide for Descriptors to make your
own property classes:
http://users.rcn.com/python/download/Descriptor.htm


Robert Brewer
MIS
Amor Ministries
fumanchu at amor.org



From __peter__ at web.de  Wed Apr 28 03:01:20 2004
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Wed, 28 Apr 2004 09:01:20 +0200
Subject: Is Perl *that* good?
References: <c6ich0$c5mee$1@ID-205437.news.uni-berlin.de>	<iL3jc.232$Yc.2330@news4.e.nsc.no>	<108q51j4dscn7dc@corp.supernews.com>	<knbjc.267$id.3998@news2.e.nsc.no>	<pan.2004.04.26.20.50.19.843510@hotmail.com>	<87fzaqmm8t.fsf@strauser.com>	<38ec68a6.0404262308.50029919@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.49.1083084698.25742.python-list@python.org>
	<cbfb92ae.0404272203.2ff42c98@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <c6nks0$l3i$02$1@news.t-online.com>

Wallclimber wrote:

> I have to agree with the original poster. My *only* complaint about
> Python are not regex search, but regex search and replace operations.
> Perl   : s =~ s/(\w+)\s*=\s*(\d+)/$2 <= $1/g;
> Python : regex.sub(s, "(\w+)\s*=\s*)\d+)", (lambda m: m.group(2)+" <=
> "+m.group(1)))
> 
> I didn't try this out so there might be some syntax problems in there,
> but you get the idea. Is there a 'nicer' way to do this in python?

Your example suggests that the Python equivalent for $1 is \1:

>>> re.sub(r"(\w+)\s*=\s*(\d+)", r"\2 <= \1", "a=1 b = 3 c = d")
'1 <= a 3 <= b c = d'

Peter


From peter at engcorp.com  Tue Apr 20 11:33:56 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 11:33:56 -0400
Subject: Editing/Writing Word-Files from Python
In-Reply-To: <c63fgi$7esh7$1@ID-47444.news.uni-berlin.de>
References: <c63fgi$7esh7$1@ID-47444.news.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <TIadnRtonqR53xjdRVn-ug@powergate.ca>

Daniel Cloutier wrote:
> is it possible to edit or write Word-files out of a Python-Program?

Word uses a proprietary binary format, so you don't really
have as an option the simple "open file, make some changes,
write file" approach you might be picturing.

On the other hand, this *is* Python, so you have alternatives:

1. Use ActiveX and control Word from Python.  This is described
well in Mark Hammond's book on Win32 programming with Python,
web pages (use Google), and posts in the comp.lang.python archives.

2. Write HTML or RTF files, which are not proprietary binary
formats.  These can be edited in Python and then written back
again.  Not sure if there's an RTF library, but "it's just text".

3. Define in more detail what you are actually looking for
("edit" is ill-defined) including the context, and you'll
probably get another three or four ways of doing it.

-Peter


From donn at u.washington.edu  Wed Apr 14 20:04:12 2004
From: donn at u.washington.edu (Donn Cave)
Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2004 17:04:12 -0700
Subject: Aspect Programming Module
References: <84fc4588.0404140106.3fa0c55@posting.google.com>
	<slrnc7q1ss.1aa.alf@largo.fayauffre.org>
	<cb035744.0404141130.170f51c4@posting.google.com>
	<slrnc7rh3n.6oq.joe@gate.notcharles.ca>
Message-ID: <donn-2EE58A.17041214042004@nntp1.u.washington.edu>

In article <slrnc7rh3n.6oq.joe at gate.notcharles.ca>,
 Joe Mason <joe at notcharles.ca> wrote:

> In article <cb035744.0404141130.170f51c4 at posting.google.com>, Will Stuyvesant 
> wrote:
> >> [Alexandre Fayolle, being a good employee]
> >> You may want to try the logilab.aspects package, available at
> >> http://www.logilab.org/projects/aspects/
> > 
> > I am afraid you are serious.
> > 
> > AOP is *not needed* for Python programmers.  Plain and simple.
> > 
> > Don't understand?  Try this:
> > 
> > "AOP is a contrived way to get around the limitations of a statically
> > typed language."
> 
> Care to explain that?  What I've seen of AOP seems like a very dynamic
> design philosophy.

Have you been through the materials referred to there?
I didn't spend much time on it, but I didn't immediately
recognize anything from the last time I heard about AOP,
so I was led to wonder if it's a different notion going
by the same name.

The one I remember allows objects to inherit from containers,
more or less.  Your widget for example might inherit some
drawing parameters from the window it belongs to.  I'm probably
getting it mostly wrong, but then I wasn't very excited about
the idea.  OOP is scary enough without compounding it this way.

   Donn Cave, donn at u.washington.edu


From sdahlbacSPAMSUX at abo.fi  Tue Apr 27 17:00:47 2004
From: sdahlbacSPAMSUX at abo.fi (Simon Dahlbacka)
Date: Wed, 28 Apr 2004 00:00:47 +0300
Subject: wxpython + py2exe + innosetup
Message-ID: <408eca0c$1@newsflash.abo.fi>

I'm "exefying" an application that uses wxpython, some com to control excel
and word and want to distribute this application.

after creating the executable with py2exe, it still works fine (at least on
my development machine), however, if I create an installer package with
innosetup, install it and try to run it, I get a busy cursor for a split
second and then.. nothing. no errors no traceback no nothing.. viewing
dependencies does not reveal anything strange, and running the installed
program in a debugger just tells that the application has exited with code
0.

..where do I go from here, I'm running out of ideas.. ?

/Simon




From tjreedy at udel.edu  Mon Apr 12 10:37:11 2004
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2004 10:37:11 -0400
Subject: Documentation tool for python source code
References: <930ba99a.0404120201.65203953@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <c5e9ij$tf5$1@sea.gmane.org>


"Sridhar R" <sridharinfinity at yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:930ba99a.0404120201.65203953 at posting.google.com...
> I am just wondering why epydoc isn't mentioned (or atleast in main
> page) in the docsig section of www.python.org.

Either a) it was considered and rejected or b) no one ever suggested or
thought of it.  You can eliminate the second possibility by making a
suggestion at the email address on the side-bar.  Suggesting a specific
sentence to be added at a specific place would increase the probability to
have an effect.

tjr






From pm_mon at yahoo.com  Wed Apr 14 10:41:03 2004
From: pm_mon at yahoo.com (Paul Morrow)
Date: 14 Apr 2004 07:41:03 -0700
Subject: Difficulty Finding Python Developers
Message-ID: <65cbc3dd.0404140641.3501fde8@posting.google.com>

We've worked hard to convince our company to migrate our core
applications to Python, and now we're looking for a Python developer
in Atlanta to handle a short-term (approx. 3 month) project.  But our
initial searches have been fairly unsuccessful.  We haven't actually
posted a job on Monster, but we have been talking with various
headhunters in our area and they don't have many resumes that show
Python experience.  An so now, of course, mgt is wondering whether
selecting Python was a mistake.

As anyone had a similar experience?  Suggestions?

Thanks.


From martin at v.loewis.de  Sun Apr  4 15:11:06 2004
From: martin at v.loewis.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?=22Martin_v=2E_L=F6wis=22?=)
Date: Sun, 04 Apr 2004 21:11:06 +0200
Subject: user authentication via /etc/passwd|/etc/shadow
In-Reply-To: <c4pkng$2kt4q4$1@ID-165840.news.uni-berlin.de>
References: <c4ork9$2kssti$1@ID-165840.news.uni-berlin.de>
	<c4phmr$k6i$04$1@news.t-online.com>
	<c4pkng$2kt4q4$1@ID-165840.news.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <c4pmk1$6g8$05$1@news.t-online.com>

Marco Herrn wrote:
> It seems that the pwd module can only access /etc/passwd. If the
> passwords are stored in /etc/shadow, it doesn't work. Is there a way to
> access shadow passwords, too?

No, support for shadow modules is currently not available. You might 
want to check out http://python.org/sf/579435 to see whether it helps
you. Comments in this SF patch submission on the usability of the
specific patch are appreciated.

Regards,
Martin



From till at score.is.tsukuba.ac.jp  Wed Apr 21 11:39:23 2004
From: till at score.is.tsukuba.ac.jp (Till Plewe)
Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2004 00:39:23 +0900
Subject: python shutting down sloooooooowly/tuning dictionaries
Message-ID: <20040421153923.GA13234%till@score.is.tsukuba.ac.jp>

Is there a way to speed up killing python from within a python program?
Sometimes shutting down takes more than 10 times as much time as the actual
running of the program. 

The programs are fairly simple (searching/organizing large boardgame
databases) but use a lot of memory (1-6GB).  The memory is mostly used
for simple structures like trees or relations. Typically there will be
a few large dictionaries and many small dictionaries/sets/arrays/lists. 

Since the entire database is too large I typically run the same
program 10-100 times on smaller parts. The annoying bit is that the
time for finishing one instance of a program before starting the next
instance can take a lot of time.  I have started using a shell script to
check whether certain files have been written and then kill the
program from the os to speed up everything. But this solution is way 
too ugly. There should be a better way, but I don't seem to be able to
find one.

A second question. Is it possible to control the resizing of
dictionaries?  It seems that resizing always doubles the size, but for
dictionaries using more than half of the remaining memory than this
is a problem. I would rather have a slightly too full dictionaries in
main memory than have a sparse dictionary partially swapped out.

I would like to be able to restrict the maximum growth of each resize
operation to around 100MB or so.

TIA.

- Till




From a at a.invalid  Sun Apr 25 15:02:48 2004
From: a at a.invalid (Timo Virkkala)
Date: Sun, 25 Apr 2004 19:02:48 GMT
Subject: Python-list, Exotic sex is urgently necessary for you!
In-Reply-To: <e9570f37.0404230655.15907007@posting.google.com>
References: <E5E3A37F16I0JC42@python.org>
	<mailman.935.1082683672.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<EY1ic.31$Ah4.7@read3.inet.fi>
	<e9570f37.0404230655.15907007@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <sXTic.619$jM6.444@read3.inet.fi>

Graham Fawcett wrote:
> Timo Virkkala <a at a.invalid> wrote in message news:<EY1ic.31$Ah4.7 at read3.inet.fi>...
>>[disgusting content snipped]
>>
>>I've heard of sex with lots of kinds of animals, but Pythons? Wouldn't 
>>that be a) difficult b) VERY dangerous?
> 
> It's no surprise you're not into snakes, Timo. Everyone knows that
> Finns have fixations for flightless, fat waterfowl.

LOL! Where does that come from? =)

> BTW, I think that "Python-list, Exotic sex is urgently necessary for
> you!" should be the slogan for the next PyCon conference. It would
> definitely increase registrations.

Hmm.. It might attract some people we would rather not have there.

--
WT


From hungjunglu at yahoo.com  Sat Apr 10 11:20:25 2004
From: hungjunglu at yahoo.com (Hung Jung Lu)
Date: 10 Apr 2004 08:20:25 -0700
Subject: Code blocks and top posting
References: <slrnc7fbrc.1ek.ramen@lackingtalent.com>
Message-ID: <8ef9bea6.0404100720.65ffd2c9@posting.google.com>

Dave Benjamin <ramen at lackingtalent.com> wrote in message news:<slrnc7fbrc.1ek.ramen at lackingtalent.com>...
> def answer(question):
>     return 'For pretty much the same reason top posting is.'
>     
> if __name__ == '__main__':
>     question = 'Why is Python not having code blocks annoying?'
>     print answer(question)
> 
> # HaHaOnlySerious

def f(x):
    print x

if __name__ == '__main__':
    f('Functions are annoying, by the same token?')

Hung Jung


From mark at prothon.org  Mon Apr 26 15:20:59 2004
From: mark at prothon.org (Mark Hahn)
Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2004 12:20:59 -0700
Subject: Why we will use obj$func() often
References: <d2Uhc.22272$dZ1.1600@fed1read04> <84Uhc.22278$dZ1.5087@fed1read04>
	<mailman.927.1082665370.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<8AWhc.23114$dZ1.11070@fed1read04> <40883BFE.B381518A@alcyone.com>
	<27_hc.23801$dZ1.2716@fed1read04> <40887145.789A2FE8@alcyone.com>
	<7cki80hj976bia36lhf9er97v073o1pqvm@4ax.com>
	<w8dic.28710$dZ1.11206@fed1read04> <ulXiAls/KH1K089yn@the-wire.com>
	<lkfic.29767$dZ1.17301@fed1read04>
	<donn-66132E.15345723042004@nntp3.u.washington.edu>
	<PLhic.30493$dZ1.22063@fed1read04> <1082783076.585831@yasure>
	<Tunic.32387$dZ1.12932@fed1read04>
	<c6hvdk$bs63j$1@ID-169208.news.uni-berlin.de>
	<SN%ic.37580$dZ1.14964@fed1read04>
	<108qeg1lkm5hq8d@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <vidjc.332$Qy.3@fed1read04>


"Michael Geary" <Mike at DeleteThis.Geary.com> wrote

> It's not P*thonic, but JavaScript's solution for this keeps looking better
> to me. When you want a local name, you create it with 'var'. When you
refer
> to a name, it always starts in the current scope and works its way up the
> chain until it finds the name.

Maybe there would be some way to make the "var" keyword totally optional.
But then that still destroys the "no need to look around to to read the
code" principle.




From tjreedy at udel.edu  Sun Apr 18 18:37:47 2004
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Sun, 18 Apr 2004 18:37:47 -0400
Subject: imitating user input
References: <ebd4b44c.0404181137.6ec29ba8@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <c5uvvl$g4d$1@sea.gmane.org>


"Greg Grin" <grigri9 at yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:ebd4b44c.0404181137.6ec29ba8 at posting.google.com...
> I need to imitate keyboard strokes in an active window inside of
> internet explorer, specifically I need my program to log on to a
> chatroom without me actually sitting in front of my computer. Also,
> once it has logged on to the program I need my program to "read"
> (search for strings, etc.) the text that's entered by other users in
> this "chatroom". The problem I have is actually logging in to the
> chatroom since I have not found a way to duplicate keyboard strokes.

For this problem, you do *not* need to imitate keystrokes (and mouseclicks)
in the way that you would for interacting with a local interactive program.
You *do* need to send and receive strings through internet sockets
according to the Internet Relay Chat protocol (assuming that that is the
protocol used by the site you are interested in.  There are existing chat
programs that can be scripted in Python.  The Python-coded Twisted package
also includes an IRC implementation.  Some of the other internet packages
may also.

Look at
http://twistedmatrix.com/users/jh/teud/Twisted/twisted.protocols.irc.html
or google Python Internet Relay Chat protocol, as I did, for more.

Terry J. Reedy






From sean_berry at cox.net  Mon Apr  5 15:56:46 2004
From: sean_berry at cox.net (Sean Berry)
Date: Mon, 5 Apr 2004 14:56:46 -0500
Subject: FDF to PDF in Python?
Message-ID: <ozkcc.25099$zh.23199@fed1read07>

I am doing a project which will require me to take an FDF and convert it to
a PDF after some information has been filled out.

Is there anything in Python that can help me with this?

I go the FDFToolkitforUnix from Adobe, but it is in Perl and I would much
prefer Python.  Has anyone out there done anything like this before?

Any comments or suggestions are appreciated.





From junkmail at solumslekt.org  Sat Apr  3 04:22:47 2004
From: junkmail at solumslekt.org (Leif B. Kristensen)
Date: Sat, 03 Apr 2004 11:22:47 +0200
Subject: String concatenation
References: <wS8bc.4382$px6.64058@news2.e.nsc.no>
	<7xisgi24fm.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <zlvbc.4577$px6.66541@news2.e.nsc.no>

Paul Rubin wrote:

>   tmp = [x for x in res if x and x[0] != '-']
>   return ', '.join(tmp)

Substituting tmp with the real thing, it turns into a one-liner:

return ', '.join([x for x in res if x and x[0] != '-'])

Awesome :-)
-- 
Leif Biberg Kristensen
http://solumslekt.org/
Validare necesse est


From greg at cosc.canterbury.ac.nz  Fri Apr  2 02:32:35 2004
From: greg at cosc.canterbury.ac.nz (Greg Ewing)
Date: Fri, 02 Apr 2004 19:32:35 +1200
Subject: Prothon, metaclasses, Zope [Was: A 'Python like' language]
References: <95aa1afa.0403272243.78d60724@posting.google.com>
	<slrnc6crti.dit.joe@gate.notcharles.ca>
	<95aa1afa.0403280258.41dc5cd9@posting.google.com>
	<slrnc6ddi6.e5c.joe@gate.notcharles.ca>
	<c4aia1$2d44ll$1@ID-169208.news.uni-berlin.de>
	<8y8ac.68250$cx5.51296@fed1read04>
	<c4dkg2$2gsuda$1@ID-169208.news.uni-berlin.de>
	<mzOac.90680$cx5.25736@fed1read04>
Message-ID: <406D1713.60604@cosc.canterbury.ac.nz>

Mark Hahn wrote:
 > You don't have to use the obj = proto() technique to create an 
object.  The
 > following code is identical to saying subproto = topproto() except no
 > __init__() will be called:
 >
 >    subproto = Object()
 >    subproto.set_proto(topproto)  # switch prototype on the fly
 >
 > Does this give you the missing piece you need

Yes, it does, I think. Creating the prototype this way
is very similar to what the Python class statement does.

Greg




From steve at ninereeds.fsnet.co.uk  Thu Apr  8 18:38:46 2004
From: steve at ninereeds.fsnet.co.uk (Stephen Horne)
Date: Thu, 08 Apr 2004 23:38:46 +0100
Subject: OFF-TOPIC:: Why Lisp is not my favorite programming language
References: <165b3efa.0403030443.4d591f04@posting.google.com>
	<40460dd5$0$5916$7a628cd7@news.club-internet.fr>
	<d771b842.0403040735.3b5200ae@posting.google.com>
	<e87fc4b0.0403221114.254b7ee5@posting.google.com>
	<d771b842.0404061258.655b8e56@posting.google.com>
	<6in670lrldbjkuujle68a526293j57a7mn@4ax.com>
	<95aa1afa.0404070205.94b32e4@posting.google.com>
	<tyfptakvwrl.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
	<jnr87050a6d52edleb8l4movjr3667rb16@4ax.com>
	<tyfbrm2x49o.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
Message-ID: <sakb701i208lljmc6ropigdkmgsi28sj64@4ax.com>

On 08 Apr 2004 10:28:19 +0200, Jacek Generowicz
<jacek.generowicz at cern.ch> wrote:

>Stephen Horne <steve at ninereeds.fsnet.co.uk> writes:
>
>> and given the kind of metaprogramming possible in Lisp (which for
>> compilation to work, must imply just-in-time compilation at run
>> time)
>
>Why ?

I am led to believe that if you want to write any syntax in Lisp, you
can - you just need a library that understands it.

So if you feel like writing...

  (a := b + c)

You just write the library that understands infix operators,
precedence etc.

But the Lisp compiler itself doesn't understand that code. For it to
be handled, it must be translated (by the library) to Lisp code that
the compiler does understand, and that code must then be compiled.

Otherwise, the metaprogramming library is just an interpreter (barely
any different than writing "(+ 1 2)" in quotes and having a Lisp
interpreter written as a Python library, as really the only additional
thing it handles is tokenising), and your code implemented using
metaprogramming is not compiled. That would mean that what you can
write using metaprogramming is second class compared with what is
written using the standard Lisp facilities, which is a direct
contradiction of what I have been told right here in this group.

Or at least that is the impression I have - on the record of this
thread so far, I am confident that I will be proven wrong.


-- 
Steve Horne

steve at ninereeds dot fsnet dot co dot uk


From dkuhlman at rexx.com  Wed Apr 21 17:54:03 2004
From: dkuhlman at rexx.com (Dave Kuhlman)
Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2004 14:54:03 -0700
Subject: saving interpreter source?
References: <pan.2004.04.21.16.36.47.928286@asdf.asdf>
	<EdidnQQ_h52aOxvdRVn-sQ@powergate.ca>
Message-ID: <c66qhs$8aupt$1@ID-139865.news.uni-berlin.de>

Peter Hansen wrote:

> Garett wrote:
> 
>> Hello, I would like to be able to save source typed into the
>> interpreter to a file. Kind of like marshal, but I would like to
>> have the file contain the source so I can edit it later.
>> Something like inspect.getsource() but for source typed into the
>> interpreter, not imported from a module. Is this possible? Any
>> ideas are greatly appreciated. -Garett
> 
> Last time I used it, Chris Gonnerman's readline replacement kept a
> history by default:
> 
> http://newcenturycomputers.net/projects/readline.html

Also, take a look at the following.  It tells you how to configure
your interactive sessions so that both (1) interactive history
will be saved to a file and (2) that history will be available in
subsequent interactive sessions.

Dave

-- 
http://www.rexx.com/~dkuhlman



From imbosol at aerojockey.invalid  Tue Apr 27 20:09:08 2004
From: imbosol at aerojockey.invalid (Carl Banks)
Date: Wed, 28 Apr 2004 00:09:08 GMT
Subject: Is Perl *that* good?
References: <c6ich0$c5mee$1@ID-205437.news.uni-berlin.de>
	<iL3jc.232$Yc.2330@news4.e.nsc.no>
	<108q51j4dscn7dc@corp.supernews.com>
	<knbjc.267$id.3998@news2.e.nsc.no>
	<pan.2004.04.26.20.50.19.843510@hotmail.com>
	<87fzaqmm8t.fsf@strauser.com>
	<38ec68a6.0404262308.50029919@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.49.1083084698.25742.python-list@python.org>
	<pan.2004.04.27.18.15.56.169064@hotmail.com>
	<Z_Bjc.1397$ZD3.139@fe1.columbus.rr.com>
	<roy-C1F2BF.19434527042004@reader2.panix.com>
Message-ID: <ECCjc.30580$Vp5.25085@fe2.columbus.rr.com>

Roy Smith wrote:
> 
> 
> Carl Banks <imbosol at aerojockey.invalid> wrote:
>> Hmm.  The reason this hasn't been done is that it makes the match
>> method non-reentrant.  For example, suppose you call some functions in
>> between the matching and use of the matched object, like this:
>> 
>>     if myregex.match(line):
>>         xyz = (subprocess(line[myregex.lastm.end():]) 
>>                + myregex.lastm.group(1))
>> 
>> And suppose subprocess goes on to use the same regexp.  By the time
>> subprocess returns, myregex.lastm could have been overwritten.  This
>> is not a far-fetched example at all; one could easily encounter this
>> problem when writing, say, a recursive descent parser.
> 
> I don't see that this is any worse than any other stateful object.

It's worse because, unlike most objects, regexp objects are usually
global (at least they are when I use them).  Moreover, the library
encourages us to make regexp objects global by exposing the regexp
compiler.  So even if you personally use local regexps (and accept the
resulting performance hit), many will declare them global.

In other words, myregexp.match is essentially a global function, so
it shouldn't have state.


-- 
CARL BANKS                      http://www.aerojockey.com/software
"If you believe in yourself, drink your school, stay on drugs, and
don't do milk, you can get work." 
          -- Parody of Mr. T from a Robert Smigel Cartoon


From peter at engcorp.com  Thu Apr 15 10:13:23 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2004 10:13:23 -0400
Subject: Difficulty Finding Python Developers
In-Reply-To: <du7pta9l4s0.fsf@amadeus.cc.tut.fi>
References: <65cbc3dd.0404140641.3501fde8@posting.google.com>
	<65cbc3dd.0404141018.36d9d4ce@posting.google.com>
	<ca6d23f8.0404150426.5daf0b7d@posting.google.com>
	<kKSdnSaWjO_rF-PdRVn-jg@powergate.ca>
	<du7pta9l4s0.fsf@amadeus.cc.tut.fi>
Message-ID: <4I2dnfDLZq4eBePdRVn-uw@powergate.ca>

Ville Vainio wrote:

> Offering some comebacks in advance...
>>>>>>"Peter" == Peter Hansen <peter at engcorp.com> writes:
>     Peter> And here I would ask, "Why do you say that?  If there are
>     Peter> so few of them around, how could anyone know whether
>     Peter> they're better or worse?  And wouldn't the best programmers
> 
> I guess the braindeadness of perl can be argued as an indication of
> the quality of programmers - if the Perl people are unable to see how
> much the language stinks, they might be lacking in other areas of
> programming also.
> 
> Java OTOH is the lowest common denominator, pretty much everyone knows
> it, which drags the average quality down.

These are comments that Python developers understand.  Try explaining
them to a Perl or Java developer, or more importantly to the OP's
management, and see how far it gets you. :-)

(Also hope that the management type you're talking to wasn't/isn't a
Java developer as well!  :-)

-Peter


From mlh at furu.idi.ntnu.no  Fri Apr 23 11:43:20 2004
From: mlh at furu.idi.ntnu.no (Magnus Lie Hetland)
Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2004 15:43:20 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Regexp optimization question
References: <slrnc8gal3.9da.mlh@furu.idi.ntnu.no>
	<c69aqq$3h2$06$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <slrnc8ieco.7j7.mlh@furu.idi.ntnu.no>

In article <c69aqq$3h2$06$1 at news.t-online.com>, Martin v. L?wis wrote:
>Magnus Lie Hetland wrote:
>> I've tried to speed this up by using the same trick as SPARK, putting
>> all the regexps into a single or-group in a new regexp. That helped a
>> *lot* -- but now I have to find out which one of them matched at a
>> certain location.
>
>Are you using the .lastindex attribute of match objects yet?

Dang! I thought I had read the docs ;)

Seems very useful. I actually need to know all the matches, because
which one gets selected depends on the current priorities (ordering)
in the parser, and cannot be fixed for the scanner. (I could put the
patterns in the or-group in reverse prioritized order, but that would
have to be fixed...)

Thanks for the tip, anyway.

>Martin

-- 
Magnus Lie Hetland              "Wake up!"  - Rage Against The Machine
http://hetland.org              "Shut up!"  - Linkin Park


From peter at engcorp.com  Tue Apr 20 10:22:41 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 10:22:41 -0400
Subject: CamelCase versus wide_names (Prothon)
In-Reply-To: <6ee58e07.0404192141.2229efd6@posting.google.com>
References: <UHxfc.9323$dZ1.3740@fed1read04>
	<6ee58e07.0404192141.2229efd6@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <j7ydnQd_sJuvrxjdRVn-gQ@powergate.ca>

Lothar Scholz wrote:
> After writing a few hundert thousands lines of code in Eiffel and a
> few ten thousands lines in Java i must say that lowercase wide_names
> are much much better to read. Someone else already mentioned this
> problem:
> 
>    smtp_message <-> SMTPMessage <-> SmtpMessage

What about SMTP_message?  If you don't deal with that issue,
you will doubtless get wide-namers who want to write it that
way instead of smtp_message.

If, on the other hand, you have a coding standard which insists
that acronyms be lower-cased, then the supposed problem you
mention above goes away, because whether you use wide_names or
mixedCase, you are consistently (not) capitalizing acronyms.

In other words, if it's a problem, it's a problem with
wide_names as well....

-Peter


From johnc_tan at hotmail.com  Fri Apr 16 20:13:11 2004
From: johnc_tan at hotmail.com (JT)
Date: 16 Apr 2004 17:13:11 -0700
Subject: Initializing Python in Optimized mode from C++
References: <dd7b0c71.0404161034.3173e132@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.703.1082141180.20120.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <dd7b0c71.0404161613.66dcb9ac@posting.google.com>

"Fredrik Lundh" <fredrik at pythonware.com> wrote in message 

> here's one way to do it:
> 
>     putenv("PYTHONOPTIMIZE=yes");
>     ... initialize interpreter as usual ...
> 
> </F>

Thanks for response!  I'll try this solution.  Does anyone know of any
way to do this directly through the Python C/C++ API, such as by
modifying a variable representing the state, interpreter or compiler,
or by calling a specific method?


From cmg at dok.org  Wed Apr 14 10:32:34 2004
From: cmg at dok.org (Chris Green)
Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2004 10:32:34 -0400
Subject: mcmillan installer
References: <mailman.575.1081855698.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<BMmdnUQEpNTsb-bdRVn-iQ@comcast.com>
	<mailman.579.1081868511.20120.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <m2ekqqvddp.fsf@catbert.dok.org>

"Gianluca Trombetta" <gianluca.trombetta at tin.it> writes:

> thank you Larry,
>
> but I need to compile for linux platform and py2exe only work on windows :-(
>

http://starship.python.net/crew/atuining/cx_Freeze/

I've had pretty good luck getting this to work under Linux though
haven't gone into production with it. It's a pretty confusing to get
started but it says it works on Linux & Windows.

I've only tried Linux but after a lot of hair pulling I was able to
get 4suite + wxPython + other modules all into a single app directory.

The hardest part there was the encodings directory of the basic python
where there are complicated things going on with __import__ and it
doesn't figure them out.
-- 
Chris Green <cmg at dok.org>
Chicken's thinkin'


From vineet at eswap.com  Tue Apr  6 00:43:47 2004
From: vineet at eswap.com (Vineet Jain)
Date: Tue, 6 Apr 2004 00:43:47 -0400
Subject: int('2.1') does not work while int(float('2.1')) does
In-Reply-To: <40722E98.253B5FF2@alcyone.com>
Message-ID: <KPENJIMKHJPNKOLFIHBNOECLCGAA.vineet@eswap.com>

Just an interesting thing to note:

>>> a = int(float(0.99999999999999999))
>>> a
1
>>> a = int(float(0.9999999999999999))
>>> a
0

I'm still not sure i follow why "int(aString) means make an int out of this
string" cannot use the same rules and behave in the same way as it encouters
a float when it encouters a float string.

VJ

-----Original Message-----
From: python-list-bounces+vineet=eswap.com at python.org
[mailto:python-list-bounces+vineet=eswap.com at python.org]On Behalf Of
Erik Max Francis
Sent: Monday, April 05, 2004 11:14 PM
To: python-list at python.org
Subject: Re: int('2.1') does not work while int(float('2.1')) does


Joe Mason wrote:

> Why can it make this guess for "int(2.1)", then?  It's got a rule for
> converting floats to ints - why not use it here?

Because int(aFloat) means round toward zero.  int(aString) means make an
int out of this string.

--
 __ Erik Max Francis && max at alcyone.com && http://www.alcyone.com/max/
/  \ San Jose, CA, USA && 37 20 N 121 53 W && AIM erikmaxfrancis
\__/ Convictions are more dangerous enemies of truth than lies.
    -- Friedrich Nietzsche
--
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list




From NAVMSE-PORSCHE at hjpfaff.com  Wed Apr 14 19:15:55 2004
From: NAVMSE-PORSCHE at hjpfaff.com (NAVMSE-PORSCHE)
Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2004 19:15:55 -0400
Subject: Norton AntiVirus detected and quarantined a virus in a message you
	sent.
Message-ID: <E21464E4F2400243AD5A9266C76CFD8630FB95@porsche.ad.hjpfaff.com>

Recipient of the infected attachment:  PORSCHE, First Storage Group\Mailbox Store (PORSCHE), Jamie Taylor/Inbox
Subject of the message:  Hi
One or more attachments were quarantined.
  Attachment patch3425.zip was Quarantined for the following reasons:
    Virus W32.Netsky.P at mm was found.
    Virus W32.Netsky.P at mm was found in data.rtf                                                                           .scr.




From ryanlowe0 at msn.com  Wed Apr 28 18:33:44 2004
From: ryanlowe0 at msn.com (Ryan Lowe)
Date: Wed, 28 Apr 2004 22:33:44 GMT
Subject: parallel for loops
References: <0SAjc.12421$Gd3.3093654@news4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net>
	<pan.2004.04.27.23.51.26.591770@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <cjWjc.32475$Gd3.7278126@news4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net>


> >>>> a, b = [1,2,3], [4,5,6]     # a = [1,2,3], b = [4,5,6]
> >>>> for a, b in zip([1,2,3], [4,5,6]): print a, b
> >
> > instead of:
> >>>> for a, b in [1,2,3], [4,5,6]: print a, b     # illegal
> >
> > im sure there is a good reason why the former was chosen, and i know its
way
> > too late to switch, but i cant think of many examples of when you would
use
> > parallel iteration *without* zip. not even dictionaries since you have
to
>
> dates = [(2004, 4, 27), (2004, 2, 9), (2003, 11, 14)]
> for year, month, day in dates:
>     do_something_with(year)
>     and_with(month, date)

i assume you meant day instead of date on the last line...

> Also, it's more consistent: in each iteration, an element of the
> list being iterated over is assigned to the loop variable; or if
> it's multiple variables, automatic unpacking happens just like it
> would if a value were assigned to multiple variables in an
> assignment statement.

i had thought of something like that, say points:

for x, y, z in points:

but when i really stopped to think about it, it is not more consistent since
(x, y, z) is not a direct member of the points list; its a decomposition of
a single point. likewise, (year, month, day) is a single date. therefore you
should have to say:

for point in points:
   x, y, z = point
   ...

its one more line, but its more explicit. or just use a point class and
access point.x, point.y, and point.z. i guess it comes down to whether
breaking up a single list of tuples is the more common use of parallel
iteration vars, or iterating over multiple iterators with a single var each.
i think its the latter, but maybe thats just the type of problems ive
encountered that dealt with parallel iteration...

as another example, the old problem of including the counter var, only
/satisfactorily/ solved by enumerate(). this is a case where i have to stop
and remember which comes first the counter or the contents. of course, its
still a lot better than the hideous old solution:

for i, v in zip(range(len(list), list):

removing the zip helps a bit (using my logic), and its clear which part goes
to which which var:

for i, v in range(len(list), list:

then if you had a function that returned the indexes of a list, its very
clear and only a couple of characters longer than enumerate, without the
order problem:

for i, v in indexes(list), list:

anyway its just something to think about, or maybe waste time thinking
about... ;)





From no_spam at terastat.com  Tue Apr 27 14:17:46 2004
From: no_spam at terastat.com (bap)
Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2004 18:17:46 GMT
Subject: Problem with PY2EXE and VPython
References: <sXgjc.43843$_L6.2802892@attbi_s53>
	<7mar8057sjdqh5h54ojb4et2bd3p10teug@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <etxjc.51500$w96.4593141@attbi_s54>

Art
   Thanks for the pointer-- I did download and install your example. I did
two tests. One is on a perfectly clean machine (a win2k system on
Virtual_PC -- only operating system is on system, no Office or any Python
distributions). The second machine is a Win2k system that has VB, Office,
Python (but not Vpython) and much else. On the clean machine -- I get an
error message about MSVCP60.DLL not being found. On the second machine it
works. Both systems give me the WOW64Process error when TOH is compiled
using the latest (0.5) PY2EXE, Python 2.3.2, and VPython 2003-10-05.
BTW the new PY2EXE appears to be quite a bit simpler to use than the old.
Bruce
bapeters at terastat.com

"Arthur" <ajsiegel at optonline.com> wrote in message
news:7mar8057sjdqh5h54ojb4et2bd3p10teug at 4ax.com...
> On Mon, 26 Apr 2004 23:29:28 GMT, "bap" <no_spam at terastat.com> wrote:
>
> >When I try to run a program on a clean machine using the VPython
extensions
> >after compiling with PY2EXE I get the following error message: "The
> >procedure entry point IsWow64Process could not be located in the dynamic
> >link library KERNEL32.dll" . The compiled version runs fine on the
original
> >machine (win NT OS) but gives this error message on a machine without
> >VPython installed (Win 2K OS). Is this anything that can be fixed with
> >appropriate parameters in PY2EXE or does it require that VPython be
tweaked?
> >Any help appriciated.
>
> At:
>
>
http://www.dstoys.com/content/education/index_html/Visual%20Arts/Interactive
>
> I have the VPython Tower of Hanoi demo as a Windows executable.
>
> It is an older version of VPython and of Python.
>
> I would be curious to know if there are problems running this on your
> machine without VPython installed.
>
> If it runs OK, we can see from there what I might have done
> differently from you in building the executable.
>
> Art




From tdelaney at avaya.com  Thu Apr 29 21:24:45 2004
From: tdelaney at avaya.com (Delaney, Timothy C (Timothy))
Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2004 11:24:45 +1000
Subject: outline-style sorting algorithm
Message-ID: <338366A6D2E2CA4C9DAEAE652E12A1DE016BCD44@au3010avexu1.global.avaya.com>

Some more interesting results, which strongly demonstrate the
performance differences between DSU and passing a comparison function
when the comparison function becomes even a little bit complex.

I've reduced the list size to make the time taken manageable.

def identity (x):
    return x

def double (x):
    return x * 2    

def square (x):
    return x * x

a = range(100000); a.reverse()
b = randseq(1, 100000, 100000, 'repeat')

timer(funcsort, a, identity, 'dsu')
timer(funcsort, a, identity, 'pass')
timer(funcsort, a, double, 'dsu')
timer(funcsort, a, double, 'pass')
timer(funcsort, a, square, 'dsu')
timer(funcsort, a, square, 'pass')
print
timer(funcsort, b, identity, 'dsu')
timer(funcsort, b, identity, 'pass')
timer(funcsort, b, double, 'dsu')
timer(funcsort, b, double, 'pass')
timer(funcsort, b, square, 'dsu')
timer(funcsort, b, square, 'pass')

---------- Run ----------
cpu: 0.242, total: 0.235    # timer(funcsort, a, identity, 'dsu')
cpu: 0.137, total: 0.141    # timer(funcsort, a, identity, 'pass')
cpu: 0.259, total: 0.266    # timer(funcsort, a, double, 'dsu')
cpu: 0.162, total: 0.156    # timer(funcsort, a, double, 'pass')
cpu: 1.299, total: 1.296    # timer(funcsort, a, square, 'dsu')
cpu: 2.233, total: 2.235    # timer(funcsort, a, square, 'pass')

cpu: 0.654, total: 0.657    # timer(funcsort, b, identity, 'dsu')
cpu: 2.249, total: 2.250    # timer(funcsort, b, identity, 'pass')
cpu: 0.761, total: 0.765    # timer(funcsort, b, double, 'dsu')
cpu: 2.502, total: 2.500    # timer(funcsort, b, double, 'pass')
cpu: 1.868, total: 1.875    # timer(funcsort, b, square, 'dsu')
cpu: 33.227, total: 33.234  # timer(funcsort, b, square, 'pass')

Output completed (46 sec consumed) - Normal Termination

As you can clearly see, an apparently simple comparison function
(squaring) suffers greatly when passing a comparison function to sort.
In actual fact, this is *not* a simple comparison function, because with
the size of the numbers involved it suffers overflow and starts using
longs instead of ints. Since there are so many comparisons performed
(due to randomness in the source list) those long multiplications need
to be performed many times.

identity: 2.250 - 0.141  = 2.109
double:   2.500 - 0.156  = 2.344
square:   33.235 - 2.235 = 31.000

The difference between partially-sorted source and random source OTOH is
purely the sorting time (taking into account that it takes longer to
compare longs than ints) - there's essentially a constant-factor
overhead.

identity: 0.657 - 0.235 = 0.422
double:   0.765 - 0.266 = 0.499
square:   1.875 - 1.296 = 0.579

This is why DSU is usually preferred to passing a comparison function.

Tim Delaney



From PPNTWIMBXFFC at spammotel.com  Wed Apr 28 10:15:56 2004
From: PPNTWIMBXFFC at spammotel.com (Marco Aschwanden)
Date: Wed, 28 Apr 2004 16:15:56 +0200
Subject: Path ... where is my application's home dir?
References: <F1921F85572CB04D9F55B14BDC76B3E443485A@tdi_nt9.internal.viacom-outdoor.co.uk>
Message-ID: <opr6568uyl35jo5o@news.gmane.org>

On Wed, 28 Apr 2004 14:44:30 +0100, Tim Golden 
<tim.golden at viacom-outdoor.co.uk> wrote:

>> I want to store a file in the application directory. What is
>> the easiest
>> way to figure out, where my application is situated?
>>
>> sys.argv[0] does not work for my purposes... do you have any
>> other ideas.
>
> a) Why doesn't argv[0] work?

Because I am stupid and tested always the old/unchanged version where the 
sys.argv had no impact. 8o((((
Thanks, your a) hint - it was the kick that I needed! The look over my 
shoulder!

But I still wonder: Suppose sys.argv[0] wouldn't work. What would be the 
easiest way to find out where an application lies?

Ideas:
1. going through sys.path and checking whether the application file is in 
a dir
2. or is there a module method, that tells you where it is stored?

Thanks for "help",
Marco




From fma at doe.carleton.ca  Thu Apr  1 01:29:31 2004
From: fma at doe.carleton.ca (Fred Ma)
Date: 1 Apr 2004 06:29:31 GMT
Subject: Python from the command line (was: Choosing Perl/Python for my 
 particular niche)
References: <40652B0D.7C313F77@doe.carleton.ca>
	<406532F7.D56DC671@doe.carleton.ca>
	<406934a9$0$7564$afc38c87@news.easynet.co.uk>
	<4069F1FD.601C9079@doe.carleton.ca>
	<106n8kj2t5n7m11@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <406BB6C4.7F3ADD4@doe.carleton.ca>

Cameron Laird wrote:
> 
> In article <4069F1FD.601C9079 at doe.carleton.ca>,
> Fred Ma  <fma at doe.carleton.ca> wrote:
>                         .
>                         .
>                         .
> >Perl/sed.  About invoking Perl as part of a simple command in a
> >pipeline, I mean that one doesn't even have to write a script for it,
> >similar to sed
> >
> >       Command1 | sed -e Expression1 -e Expression2 ... | Command_N
> >
> >This might also be possible in Python, in which case so much the better.
> >I'll find out (or someone might answer in a follow-up post).  Thanks
>                         .
>                         .
>                         .
>   # python -c "print 3 + 5"
>   8

I was 99.99% sure that it was possible (heck, if tcsh and bash can do
it, python surely can).  It's a little easier to squish it into a simple
command in a pipeline for a terse/compact "language" e.g. sed.  On a
side-note, I've abused sed before by embedded sed scripts into bash
scripts without actually writing the sed script:

	Bash_Command | \
	sed \
		-e 'Expression1' \
		-e 'Expression2' \
		-e 'Conditional1 {' \
		-e	'Body_of_Conditional1' \
		-e 	'More_of_Body' \
		-e '}' \
	| More_Bash_Commands

Not that I want to do everything in sed, of course.  And for
perl/python, there is probably not much reason to mix commands
with bash, since (unlike sed) they have the shell functionality.

I've put in a request to my sysadmin to install python.  The
way to get hooked on it is to start small, with mundane tasks
(same as with any new shell, I suppose).  If it doesn't get
installed due to lack of priority, I can always get it
bundled with my next cygwin update.  Cygwin is an absolute
blessing.  Everything comes prebuilt (lots of stuff) and
you have superuser priveleges, as well as simultaneous
access to Windows.  Just as long as your HDD isn't FAT
(that prevents chmod from working).

But I digress.....

Fred

-- 
Fred Ma
Dept. of Electronics, Carleton University
1125 Colonel By Drive, Ottawa, Ontario
Canada, K1S 5B6


From hunnebal at yahoo.com  Mon Apr 26 03:08:13 2004
From: hunnebal at yahoo.com (Hunn E. Balsiche)
Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2004 03:08:13 -0400
Subject: How's ruby compare to it older brother python
Message-ID: <c6ich0$c5mee$1@ID-205437.news.uni-berlin.de>

in term of its OO features, syntax consistencies, ease of use, and their
development progress. I have not use python but heard about it quite often;
and ruby, is it mature enough to be use for developing serious application,
e.g web application as it has not many features in it yet.

I've given up on Perl for its ugly syntax and it is not the easiest language
to learn. How about PHP?

Thanks




From danb_83 at yahoo.com  Sun Apr 25 20:12:21 2004
From: danb_83 at yahoo.com (Dan Bishop)
Date: 25 Apr 2004 17:12:21 -0700
Subject: Andreas' practical language comparison
References: <c6glig$phm$07$4@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <ad052e5c.0404251612.1ac969c4@posting.google.com>

Andreas Koch <nospam at kochandreas.com> wrote in message news:<c6glig$phm$07$4 at news.t-online.com>...
> Hi all,
> 
> i started a little "practical language comparison" - practical
> in the sense that i compare how actual distributions and versions
> and their libraries (not abstract language specifications) solve small
> test cases like the 8 queens problem.
> 
> Currently there are contributions for 17 different languages, and
> none for Phyton (and Lisp. And Forth. And many others ).
> If someone is interested in contributing a few implementations,
> please have a look at:
> 
> http://www.kochandreas.com/home/language/lang.htm
> 
> and mail me your code snippets (or critics) or post them here.

# ************ Sort 2 ************

import sys

lines = file(sys.argv[1]).readlines()
lines.sort()
file('sorted.txt', 'w').writelines(lines)

# ************ Type "file" ************

import sys

for line in file(sys.argv[1]):
   print line


From Chris.Barker at noaa.gov  Thu Apr 29 18:39:23 2004
From: Chris.Barker at noaa.gov (Christopher Barker)
Date: Thu, 29 Apr 2004 15:39:23 -0700
Subject: Arachno Python IDE
In-Reply-To: <c6q92c$6s0$1@newstree.wise.edt.ericsson.se>
References: <c6q8tb$6q3$1@newstree.wise.edt.ericsson.se>
	<c6q92c$6s0$1@newstree.wise.edt.ericsson.se>
Message-ID: <c6s14u$ih$1@news.nems.noaa.gov>

Bror Johansson wrote:
> Follow up to myself.
> I just noticed that the trial version was for Ruby only.

My guess is that's a bug in their website...which clearly should be 
written in PYthon, rather than PHP.

-Chris

-- 
Christopher Barker, Ph.D.
Oceanographer
                                     		
NOAA/OR&R/HAZMAT         (206) 526-6959   voice
7600 Sand Point Way NE   (206) 526-6329   fax
Seattle, WA  98115       (206) 526-6317   main reception

Chris.Barker at noaa.gov


From gatti at dsdata.it  Fri Apr  2 07:14:21 2004
From: gatti at dsdata.it (Lorenzo Gatti)
Date: 2 Apr 2004 04:14:21 -0800
Subject: GTK2 Windows installation Was: Re: GUI Frameworks in Python?
References: <mailman.102.1080629227.20120.python-list@python.org>	<8089854e.0403300518.3a180414@posting.google.com>	<20040330143520.31dccb5e.HughMacdonald@brokenpipefilms.com>
	<mailman.130.1080667110.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<Fqwac.538$_n1.337@news.get2net.dk>
Message-ID: <5b3fd64f.0404020414.e036fe6@posting.google.com>

J?rgen Cederberg <jorgencederberg at hotmail.com> wrote in message news:<Fqwac.538$_n1.337 at news.get2net.dk>...

> 
> Hi,
> 
> i downloaded and installed the GTK runtime environment v. 2.2.4-2 and 
> PyGTK 2.2.0 for Python 2.3. The installation went fine and I added the 
> path to GTK/lib and bin. I run a helloworld program, but unfortunely I 
> get this error message which I quite puzzled about (translated from danish)
> 
> (helloworld.py:3308): Gtk-WARNING **: Could not find the theme engine in 
> module_path: 'wimp'
> 
> Does anyone have clue what to do?
> 
> Regards
> Jorgen Cederberg

I had the same harmless warning and I moved libwimp.dll to
somewhere\GTK\2.0\lib\gtk-2.0\2.2.0\engines (a new directory, sister
of "loaders" and "immodules").

Lorenzo Gatti


From ville at spammers.com  Tue Apr 27 04:31:37 2004
From: ville at spammers.com (Ville Vainio)
Date: 27 Apr 2004 11:31:37 +0300
Subject: Is Perl *that* good?
References: <c6ich0$c5mee$1@ID-205437.news.uni-berlin.de>
	<iL3jc.232$Yc.2330@news4.e.nsc.no>
	<108q51j4dscn7dc@corp.supernews.com>
	<knbjc.267$id.3998@news2.e.nsc.no>
	<pan.2004.04.26.20.50.19.843510@hotmail.com>
	<87fzaqmm8t.fsf@strauser.com>
	<38ec68a6.0404262308.50029919@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <du765bles9i.fsf@lehtori.cc.tut.fi>

>>>>> "Asun" == Asun Friere <afriere at yahoo.co.uk> writes:

    Asun> Wouldn't you need to import the re module and compile the
    Asun> pattern first?  (And wouldn't you use 'search' rather than
    Asun> 'match'?)  And

I rarely compile regexps, just pass the string to the re functions.

    Asun> Regex is much more 'immediate' in Perl.  Probably the only

I mostly use re.findall and re.sub, which are every bit as immediate
as the perl counterparts. Match objects provide flexibility - if you
want immediacy, just define a utility function that removes the
flexibility and provides the convenience.

    Asun> time I would reach for Perl rather than for python is when I
    Asun> knew a task involved a lot of regex (and no object
    Asun> orientation).

If the task involves a lot of anything it can often be factored out to
some functions, and Python wins again. Perl5 is one of those languages
with no reason to exist anymore.

-- 
Ville Vainio   http://tinyurl.com/2prnb


From peter at engcorp.com  Wed Apr 14 14:47:32 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2004 14:47:32 -0400
Subject: Pygame
In-Reply-To: <c5jt79$8m6$1@orkan.itea.ntnu.no>
References: <c5jdv2$s4$1@orkan.itea.ntnu.no>
	<xZydnfgqeaiK3ODdRVn-tw@powergate.ca>
	<c5jgvh$2m5$1@orkan.itea.ntnu.no>
	<mailman.620.1081958099.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<gandreas-33F0F9.12165314042004@news.mpls.visi.com>
	<c5jt79$8m6$1@orkan.itea.ntnu.no>
Message-ID: <z4GdnXzhXbzZGuDdRVn-vg@powergate.ca>

Alexander R?dseth wrote:
> Well, if it's not due to the licensing, and not because it's unusual to
> include anything similar,
> when speaking in terms of "batteries included"; 

It most definitely is unusual to include *anything* (my emphasis)
similar, or you would find Python already at 150MB and growing rapidly
as I suggested before.

I ask again what you think should be the criteria for including
something in the standard distribution.  Clearly, whatever you
think it should be, it's at odds with what the current maintainers
consider appropriate.  Perhaps if you can come up with some
guidelines which would include Pygame but not 130MB of other
useful and interesting packages, we'll have a better way of
deciding what to put in in future releases.

-Peter


From j.dot.willeke at verizon.dot.net  Fri Apr  2 10:05:42 2004
From: j.dot.willeke at verizon.dot.net (Jon Willeke)
Date: Fri, 02 Apr 2004 15:05:42 GMT
Subject: An attempt at guessing the encoding of a (non-unicode) string
In-Reply-To: <c1sq60t7af0lgs1ovilg6ds220dkc0inpd@4ax.com>
References: <c1sq60t7af0lgs1ovilg6ds220dkc0inpd@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <ajfbc.21$V%3.7@nwrdny02.gnilink.net>

Christos TZOTZIOY Georgiou wrote:
> This is a subject that comes up fairly often.  Last night, I had the
> following idea, for which I would like feedback from you.
> 
> This could be implemented as a function in codecs.py (let's call it
> "wild_guess"), that is based on some pre-calculated data.  These
> pre-calculated data would be produced as follows:
...
> What do you think?  I can't test whether that would work unless I have
> 'representative' texts for various encodings.  Please feel free to help
> or bash :)

The representative text would, in some circles, be called a training 
corpus.  See the Natural Language Toolkit for some modules that may help 
you prototype this approach:

   <http://nltk.sf.net/>

In particular, check out the probability tutorial.


From enrique.palomo at xgs-spain.com  Fri Apr 23 03:49:44 2004
From: enrique.palomo at xgs-spain.com (=?utf-8?Q?Enrique_Palomo_Jim=C3=A9nez?=)
Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2004 09:49:44 +0200
Subject: Help: Fatal Python error: deletion of interned string failed
Message-ID: <C8AA3BBE6E9DFB47A809842248F876E20814B8@pitagoras.xgs-spain.com>

Hello all
I'm running python in as400 and using the db2 module i find the subject's error.
commenting one "append" the error desapears
...
 
At least, is friday...
Enrique

From peter at engcorp.com  Fri Apr 16 18:31:50 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2004 18:31:50 -0400
Subject: Difficulty Finding Python Developers
In-Reply-To: <mailman.712.1082148072.20120.python-list@python.org>
References: <65cbc3dd.0404140641.3501fde8@posting.google.com><5d83790c.0404150701.605782a7@posting.google.com><roy-A17A1C.12565615042004@reader2.panix.com><7xpta8hqe7.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com><roy-A844BA.18263715042004@reader2.panix.com><7xsmf4kbac.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com><roy-B8AA1E.21270915042004@reader2.panix.com><7x7jwg7ipn.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>	<GfSdnRKGHIm2_-LdRVn-gg@powergate.ca>	<mailman.686.1082115401.20120.python-list@python.org>	<D6idncWvro52euLdRVn-hg@powergate.ca>
	<mailman.712.1082148072.20120.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <TuKdndjK-edKwx3dRVn-gQ@powergate.ca>

Paul Morrow wrote:
>> And in case my point was unclear: the OP asked about something
>> which seemed like a very simple experimental project to get their
>> feet wet with Python.
> 
> It is somewhat of an experiment, but the application is to be used in an 
> actual production system.  The experiment is to see how viable Python 
> outsourcing is in our area, in the event the inhouse developers get 
> swamped and we need help fast...

Heh heh! :-)  That pretty much eliminates the approach some
of us suggested to have an in-house developer pick up Python
quickly to do the job.

(It doesn't, I think, change the fact that you shouldn't necessarily
be insisting on hiring a "Python programmer", but clearly you will
need to mention that the work will involve programming in Python...)

-Peter


From claird at lairds.com  Mon Apr  5 07:27:08 2004
From: claird at lairds.com (Cameron Laird)
Date: Mon, 05 Apr 2004 11:27:08 -0000
Subject: Newbie need help
References: <Xns94C26A85EAAC4Help..recipe.4.9.in.@130.139.56.200>
Message-ID: <1072gkc3e3oif19@corp.supernews.com>

In article <Xns94C26A85EAAC4Help..recipe.4.9.in. at 130.139.56.200>,
Tony Ha  <tony.ha at philips.com> wrote:
>Question from a newbie. 
>
>In the interactive Python shell.
>
>1. How do I find out where I am in the file system under WindowXP?
>
>   I try os.curdir, which only give '.' back, I would like a full path
>like the Unix 'pwd' give.
			.
			.
			.
  print os.getcwd()
-- 

Cameron Laird <claird at phaseit.net>
Business:  http://www.Phaseit.net


From jepler at unpythonic.net  Thu Apr 22 21:33:26 2004
From: jepler at unpythonic.net (Jeff Epler)
Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2004 20:33:26 -0500
Subject: equivalent to Tcl 'after' command?
In-Reply-To: <ivig80hf5m119o1jl9d769vloocusc8imp@4ax.com>
References: <huThc.54272$9V6.15414@newssvr25.news.prodigy.com>
	<ivig80hf5m119o1jl9d769vloocusc8imp@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <20040423013326.GB2311@unpythonic.net>

> On Thu, 22 Apr 2004 17:42:37 GMT, Mark Harrison <mh at pixar.com>
> wrote:
> > I'm writing some event-driven programs, and I would like
> > to do the equivalent of the Tcl 'after' command, e.g.:
> > 
> > 	after 1000 {puts "one second has elapsed"}
> > 
> > 1.  What's the most canonical way of doing this?
> 
On Thu, Apr 22, 2004 at 11:52:57PM +0100, Alan Gauld wrote:
> I suspect its to start a thread that in turn starts with 
> a sleep command. Not very pretty but approximately the same.

But "doing something in about X ms in a thread" and "doing something in
about X ms from the event loop" are different: the latter basically
frees you from worrying about locking, race conditions, and the rest,
because you know it can't run concurrently with arbitrary other code.

Jeff



From oest at soetu.eu  Wed Apr  7 22:08:53 2004
From: oest at soetu.eu (Carlo v. Dango)
Date: Thu, 08 Apr 2004 04:08:53 +0200
Subject: why is python better than eg. smalltalk?? no one has any solid
	arguments! you should all go to church with all that religious talk!
References: <20031028061245.12451.00000133@mb-m01.aol.com>
	<mailman.237.1067515722.702.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <opr53783cbmyya52@news.kadnet.dom>

On Thu, 30 Oct 2003 13:08:02 +0100, Andy Jewell <andy at wild-flower.co.uk> 
wrote:

OK, I'm on the python wagon as well, but I do not really se much 
improvement over JAVA... especially when it comes to maintaining and 
reusing code (e.g. API's)... here the types are really helpful. So just 
saying typing is bad, is to me, plain wrong. I guess its like choosing a 
language for the problem... if your code is simple and script-like, you 
probably do not get nothing but trouble from the types, but maintaining a 
1 billion line of code program, you probably feel less agony by the 
restrictions (and promises!) set up by the types. In a sense types are 
like contracts (DBC) and we do agree on those as being a good thing, 
right??!

Also, I see all this advocacy of python which to me seems more like 
religion.. there is no concretenes in it, and I completely fail to see how 
python beats any of the other dynamically typed languages such as 
smalltalk or self... what is it with you guys? :)

however, when playing and trying to bend a language a dynamically typed 
language is way more fun to play with than a typed one! But the integrated 
lexer and parser in smalltalk, makes one wonder why python should be a 
choice here? Maybe what people like is all the extra software which has 
been and is being written for python, which you do not have in smalltalk? 
or what is it?

-carlo

> Kef,
>
> Funny, a lot of people make testemonials about Python, just like you 
> have...
>
> (I'm sure people also make testimonials about any given language, too).
>
> I think the difference is the way people tend to come to Python: search 
> the
> archives and you'll see hundreds of instances of 'seekers' having 'come
> home'.
>
> Python seems to engender an almost 'born again programmer' style 
> response from
> most who bother to try to master it.  Most say that when they eventually 
> /do/
> take the step, the transition is surprisingly easy - Guido's claim in the
> tutorial that you can learn most of what you need to know to become
> productive in an afternoon is not too far from the truth.
>
> When it comes to the finer, weirder, and (dare I say) darker secrets of
> Python, c.l.py is the place to learn about them.  You can learn 
> everything
> from 'just for fun' tricks that you'd never dream of incorporating into a
> real program to powerful magic that makes your program run n-times 
> faster,
> without losing readability.
>
> Still, the guys here are generally quite firmly grounded on reality; 
> there are
> certain scenarios where you just *wouldn't* employ Python, and the peeps 
> here
> in c.l.py will freely admit that.  For some, the obvious answer is to 
> write
> the appropriate parts in, say, C and use Python as a 'wrapper' around 
> that,
> saving the bits that Python is good at for Python and the bits that C is 
> good
> at for C.  Others would advocate simply using the *right* language in the
> first place.  I think a realistic motto would be "one size *does not* fit
> all".
>
> Still, given the 'performance limitations' of python, I've not really 
> found it
> to be too deficient at the things I want it to do.  In fact, often, due 
> to
> its exceptionally well optimised high-level data types, I'm often 
> surprised
> at exactly *how* fast it is ;-)
>
> For my part, I came in from a firmly Wirthian perspective: Pascal; 
> Modula-2
> and Oberon.  Aside from the Pascal family of languages, I also know 
> LOADS of
> dialects of BASIC; 4GL's like dBase; Assembly (6502, 8080, Z80, 8086, 
> 68000);
> DOS/Windows batch language; and a little FORTH.
>
> With Oberon, I though I had found the Grail, but was frustrated by
> poor/incomplete implementations of it, or with the licensing terms of the
> better implementations.  It was at the point that I ditched POW Oberon, 
> that
> I made the transition to Python.  I, too, was amazed, and I continue to 
> be,
> too.  That was about 3 years ago...
>
> Python does generate certain problems of its own, though: I recently had 
> to
> learn RPG III and IV for work, and going 'back to the dark ages' was
> incredibly frustrating and just felt 'bad'.  I guess you get spoiled by 
> the
> beauty of Python... and by the facilities,  libraries and support
> infrastructure (i.e. c.l.py).
>
> Python does seem to magnify the flaws in other languages: everything else
> seems (to me at least) to be second-best now.
>
> Slither On!
>
> -andyj
>
>
>
>
>
>



-- 
Using M2, Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/m2/


From python at rcn.com  Fri Apr  2 03:42:37 2004
From: python at rcn.com (Raymond Hettinger)
Date: 2 Apr 2004 00:42:37 -0800
Subject: splitting one dictionary into two
Message-ID: <5d83790c.0404020042.41f4a576@posting.google.com>

[jsaul]
> I have to split a dict into two dicts. Depending on their values,
> the items shall remain in the original dict or be moved to another
> one and at the same time be removed from the original dict.
> 
> OK, this is how I do it right now:
> 
>     dict1 = { "a":1, "b":3, "c":5, "d":4, "e":2 }
>     dict2 = {}
>     klist = []
> 
>     for key in dict1:
>         if dict1[key] > 3: # some criterion
>             dict2[key] = dict1[key]
>             klist.append(key)
> 
>     for key in klist:
>         del dict1[key]
> 
>     print dict1
>     print dict2
> 
> That means that I store the keys of the items to be removed from
> the original dict in a list (klist) and subsequently remove the
> items using these keys.
> 
> Is there an "even more pythonic" way?

Your way seems clean enough to me.

One other approach is to use items() so you can modify dict1 as you go:

    for key, value in dict1.items():
        if value > 3:
            dict2[key] = value
            del dict1[key]



Raymond Hettinger


From cookedm+news at physics.mcmaster.ca  Wed Apr  7 16:45:25 2004
From: cookedm+news at physics.mcmaster.ca (David M. Cooke)
Date: Wed, 07 Apr 2004 16:45:25 -0400
Subject: Idiom for error checking within a C extension
References: <c50b2c$2ifpgu$1@ID-180326.news.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <qnkk70r1pqy.fsf@arbutus.physics.mcmaster.ca>

At some point, Jon Perez <jbperez808 at yahoo.com> wrote:

> I want to retrieve a value from a tuple and convert it to a C
> type.  Is the following idiom okay?
>
>    if (!(
>          ( tmp_pyobj=PyTuple_GetItem(tuple,1) ) &&

You've got 1 here, but mention the first member below (that's number 0).

>          ( c_int=PyInt_AsLong(tmp_pyobj) )
>       ))
>      {
>        if (PyErr_ExceptionMatches(PyExc_TypeError))
>          PyErr_SetString(PyExc_TypeError,"tuple's 1st member was not an integer");
>        return NULL;
>      }
>
>
> The PyErr_ExceptionMatches/PyErr_SetString combination in the if-block is
> where I'm a bit unsure.  I want to check if the tuple element is of the
> correct type (a PyInt in this case) and if it isn't, I want to return my
> own customized error message instead of the default TypeError message.
> I'm kind of uncomfortable with the idea that I am checking for the kind
> of exception raised and then afterwards calling a function which can
> change it (even if I don't really end up doing that).

That's no different than the python code

try:
    p = tple[0]
    c = int(p)
except TypeError:
    raise TypeError("tuple's 1st member was not an integer")

You could use PyInt_Check(), and throw your own error, but if you want
to handle longs or things that can be coerced to ints, you end up
rewriting PyInt_AsLong().

-- 
|>|\/|<
/--------------------------------------------------------------------------\
|David M. Cooke
|cookedm(at)physics(dot)mcmaster(dot)ca


From project5 at redrival.net  Sat Apr 10 09:44:18 2004
From: project5 at redrival.net (Andrei)
Date: Sat, 10 Apr 2004 15:44:18 +0200
Subject: Is boa-constructor dead?
References: <d3c9c04.0404100442.2c1248a3@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <4077fa35$0$93590$cd19a363@news.wanadoo.nl>

Mark Carter wrote on Saturday 10 April 2004 14:42:

> I noticed that boa-constructor has been stuck at 0.2.3 for a long time
> now. Is it dead?

Nope, it just doesn't release very often on the front page, where one would
normally expect releases to appear :). There is activity on CVS. There is
also a - not very well publicized - 0.2.8 zip/tarball somewhere in the
forums if I'm not mistaken. I just can't find it right now.

-- 
Yours,

Andrei

=====
Real contact info (decode with rot13):
cebwrpg5 at jnanqbb.ay. Fcnz-serr! Cyrnfr qb abg hfr va choyvp cbfgf. V ernq
gur yvfg, fb gurer'f ab arrq gb PP.


From joe at notcharles.ca  Fri Apr  2 10:55:52 2004
From: joe at notcharles.ca (Joe Mason)
Date: Fri, 02 Apr 2004 15:55:52 GMT
Subject: Making the Zen of Python more useful
References: <106qp0uivlefo40@corp.supernews.com>
	<BPWdnVtfl7ma5PDdRVn-sw@powergate.ca>
	<c4jvc3$b0b$1@news-int.gatech.edu>
	<-5ydnTEmxfuZHvDdRVn-iQ@powergate.ca>
	<c4k1hb$cdg$1@news-int.gatech.edu>
Message-ID: <slrnc6r1i4.10q.joe@gate.notcharles.ca>

In article <c4k1hb$cdg$1 at news-int.gatech.edu>, Andrew Henshaw wrote:
> In article <-5ydnTEmxfuZHvDdRVn-iQ at powergate.ca>, peter at engcorp.com says...
>>
>>Andrew Henshaw wrote:
>>
>>> In article <BPWdnVtfl7ma5PDdRVn-sw at powergate.ca>, peter at engcorp.com says...
>>>>I'm not sure why you had to do quite all that.  The following is 
>>>>sufficient, and you don't need a custom ROT-13 thingie:
>>>>
>>>>>>>import StringIO, sys
>>>>>>>s = StringIO.StringIO()
>>>>>>>sys.stdout = s
>>>>>>>import this
>>>>>>>sys.stdout = sys.__stdout__
>>>>>>>s.getvalue()
>>>>
>>>>"The Zen of Python, by Tim Peters\n\nBeautiful is ...
>>> 
>>> Much better.  Still pretty awkward for the purpose I described.  Perhaps, 
> the 
>>> best solution, overall.
>>
>>Okay then, how about this one?  :-)
>>
>> >>> import this
>>The Zen of Python, by Tim Peters\n\nBeautiful is ...
>> >>> this.s.decode('rot-13')
>>u"The Zen of Python, by Tim Peters\n\nBeautiful is ...
>>
>>-Peter
> 
> Hey, that's very slick!  But ... (starting to feel like a whiner), my main 
> problem was with the automatic printing of the text upon import.  Obviously, 
> that functionality needs to remain.  It would just be nice if there was 
> some clean way of (sometimes) using the module without it.

Personally, I'd just make a "zen" module which imports "this" after
redirecting stdout as described above, and give that to your students.

Joe


From donn at u.washington.edu  Fri Apr 30 14:00:44 2004
From: donn at u.washington.edu (Donn Cave)
Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2004 11:00:44 -0700
Subject: Is classless worth consideration
References: <g9k090lhocd1nbd7g230br6ooub113hjt6@4ax.com>
	<69cbbef2.0404290259.fd8d71c@posting.google.com>
	<MbWdnTRxROYvZg3dRVn-uw@powergate.ca>
	<69cbbef2.0404291209.7a98a799@posting.google.com>
	<boydnb9qfrqWJQzdRVn-gw@powergate.ca>
	<8ef9bea6.0404292307.66b78b83@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <donn-F6B21C.11004430042004@nntp4.u.washington.edu>

In article <8ef9bea6.0404292307.66b78b83 at posting.google.com>,
 hungjunglu at yahoo.com (Hung Jung Lu) wrote:
> Peter Hansen <peter at engcorp.com> wrote in message 
> news:<boydnb9qfrqWJQzdRVn-gw at powergate.ca>...
> > has wrote:
> > > Compared to C++, I expect it's a real breath of fresh air. But
> > > compared to how something like Self does OO, it is indeed hideously
> > > baroque.
> > 
> > Oh, now you're qualifying the statement.  In comparison to
> > something less baroque, it's baroque.  Fair enough...
> 
> Good that things cleared up. I have also pointed out previously that
> Python uses 5 devices where prototype-based needs only one: (a) class,
> (b) instance, (c) module, (d) metaclass, (e) scope. If this is not
> hideously baroque, then, Houston, we've got a problem. If you can
> really think outside the box, you'd pitch in also: (f) aspect.

As much as I love simplicity, it seems to me you may be
stretching it here.  I would have to agree with Peter Hansen
that it isn't clear that scope and module would benefit
from collapse into a single concept along with the rest.

For that matter it isn't clear that instance and class
would benefit, but when we get to metaclasses it's harder
to disagree with you.  I think I recall that you have been
arguing that class and instance naturally give rise to
metaclass, and that would be a strong argument.

If it's true - if you really can't write effective,
maintainable programs in Python without metaclass.  To
me that seems like an absurd proposition, though, if only
because I'd have no idea how to use metaclass nor why I
would want to do so.  When the idea showed up a few years
back, everyone chuckled about the `then my head exploded'
experience of wrestling with metaclasses, and I have been
assuming that it was a sort of sport accessory for people
who need a little of that kind of thing now and then.  You
don't think so, it's a basic necessity, programs written
with just class and instance are liable to be ineffective
or unmaintainable or something?

   Donn Cave, donn at u.washington.edu


From no.email at please.com  Mon Apr 12 19:09:58 2004
From: no.email at please.com (Stevie_mac)
Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2004 00:09:58 +0100
Subject: String + number split
References: <2SAec.70005$Id.6002@news-binary.blueyonder.co.uk>
Message-ID: <XkFec.71685$Id.59817@news-binary.blueyonder.co.uk>

Thank you all very much.


"Stevie_mac" <no.email at please.com> wrote in message news:2SAec.70005$Id.6002 at news-binary.blueyonder.co.uk...
> Hello again, I can do this, but I'm sure there is a much more elegant way...
>
> A string, with a number on the end, strip off the number & discard any underscores
>
> eg...
>
> font12        becomes         ('font',12)
> arial_14      becomes        ('arial',14)
>
> Cheers
>
>




From peter at engcorp.com  Wed Apr  7 11:23:41 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Wed, 07 Apr 2004 11:23:41 -0400
Subject: Non-math-geek needs help with CRCs (binascii.crc32)
In-Reply-To: <slrnc7820b.o9j.ncw@irishsea.home.craig-wood.com>
References: <4073c865$0$27642$61ce578d@news.syd.swiftdsl.com.au>
	<slrnc7820b.o9j.ncw@irishsea.home.craig-wood.com>
Message-ID: <Oa2dnVeXYOVjgendRVn-vg@powergate.ca>

Nick Craig-Wood wrote:
> nobody <get at bent.com> wrote:
> 
>> 1) Does anyone know if the CRC32 algorithm in binascii has a name?  There
>> seem to be a TON of different CRC32 methods; different polynomials,

> If you have a sample of data, its usually pretty easy to work out
> which CRC it does actually use by trial and error.  You can use the
> code Ross provides to help.

Probably _much_ easier just to check the source.  (It's not
in Python, though, it's in the C source this time...)


From mark at prothon.org  Fri Apr 30 20:07:58 2004
From: mark at prothon.org (Mark Hahn)
Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2004 17:07:58 -0700
Subject: What is good about Prothon?
References: <bniq80hiib0gauiltuntk9jvia2getbnj4@4ax.com>
	<nxdjc.400$Qy.363@fed1read04>
	<m0ps8092jss5mhpopkbj0a4hg0m0rlppqh@4ax.com>
	<vDvjc.5555$Qy.2995@fed1read04>
	<108t2tlo06j8vb9@corp.supernews.com>
	<hzwjc.6087$Qy.2366@fed1read04>
	<69cbbef2.0404281446.4e0ab52e@posting.google.com>
	<ZHXjc.17225$Qy.13377@fed1read04>
	<69cbbef2.0404291609.72d391db@posting.google.com>
	<Awlkc.36778$Qy.19874@fed1read04>
	<69cbbef2.0404300855.4dce5e5@posting.google.com>
	<CYwkc.44066$Qy.9803@fed1read04>
	<donn-F264BC.12385330042004@nntp1.u.washington.edu>
Message-ID: <cSBkc.44739$Qy.16585@fed1read04>

Donn Cave wrote:

> He's saying `language that tries to please everybody [by adding
> features like copy instead of doing it right in the first place] ==
> C++' He could have a point.  (Is there going to be an optional
> __copy__ method?)

Yes, there already is a copy method.  It solves the problem he posted of AS
versus Prothon.  Adding copy is apparently turning Prothon into C++.  I've
never thought of something as simple as copy as being an evil thing.  (The
funny thing is I added copy as part of porting Python's methods. It has
nothing to do with Self or AS, but it happens to match his needs).

> He probably thought they were pearls of wisdom.

He and I have been going in circles for weeks.  I keep trying to get him to
identify what would really make him happy in Prothon and apparently having
anything that resembles the two-tiers of object creation of Python is an
anathema to him and has to be removed.  If it stays and there is anything
else in there that he'd like then it would be C++.

> Guess you don't want any more, anyway.

Depends on what you mean by pearls of wisdom.  I've been getting a lot of
great ideas from both Prothon and Python mailing lists.  I've been spending
a lot of time arguing with Has (we started on the Prothon lists) because he
has knowledge of AS and Self and would love to have him contribute.  So far
he will only tell me that Prothon sucks because of the two tiers and his
only recommendation is to treat my code like clay and tear it down and start
over.




From colarte at telesat.com.co  Fri Apr  2 09:18:47 2004
From: colarte at telesat.com.co (Camilo Olarte)
Date: Fri,  2 Apr 2004 09:18:47 -0500
Subject: Making the Zen of Python more useful
Message-ID: <1080915527.406d76472e1c5@ilpostino3.telesat.com.co>

What about this:

<code>

import os
zen_command = os.popen("python -c 'import this'")
zen_string = ""
for line in zen_command.readlines():
    zen_string += line
zen_command.close()
print zen_string

</code>

Camilo Olarte

Telesat, m?s f?cil...m?s Internet.
http://www.telesat.com.co/



From stach at fr.USUN.pl  Fri Apr 16 18:47:26 2004
From: stach at fr.USUN.pl (Krzysztof Stachlewski)
Date: Sat, 17 Apr 2004 00:47:26 +0200
Subject: md5.hexdigest() converting unicode string to ascii
In-Reply-To: <77b925de.0404161337.3917ef56@posting.google.com>
References: <77b925de.0404151450.5c1f720a@posting.google.com><c5ohp8$fqf$1@absinth.dialog.net.pl>
	<mailman.687.1082117438.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<c5om3d$iu4$1@absinth.dialog.net.pl>
	<77b925de.0404161337.3917ef56@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <c5pnr5$j02$1@absinth.dialog.net.pl>

uebertester wrote:

> None of the suggestions seem to address the issue.  sValue =
> _winreg.QueryValueEx(y,"") returns a tuple containing the following
> (u'http://', 1).  The string u'http://' is added to the md5 object via
> the update() and then hashed via hexdigest().  How do I keep the
> unicode string from being converted to ascii with the md5 functions? 

You *have to* convert the unicode string to byte character string
(I'm trying not to call it 'character string' :-) )
md5 needs bytes to work, not unicode characters.
As I have already said, you have some ready-to-use conversions
to choose from. utf8? maybe utf16? I don't know which one you want.
If you don't specify the codec yourself then the ascii codec is used
by default.
Unicode characters are implemented in Python either as 2 or 4 byte integers.
You can't rely on memory representation of those integers (although
you can play with ord() function). You need a codec.

-- 
Stach  Tlen: stachobywatelpl, GG: 1811474
        Jabber: stach at jabber atman pl


From deetsNOSPAM at web.de  Thu Apr 22 10:19:23 2004
From: deetsNOSPAM at web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2004 16:19:23 +0200
Subject: Simple question about mutable container iterator
References: <mailman.913.1082641708.20120.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <c68kog$95ebh$1@ID-111250.news.uni-berlin.de>

Neal D. Becker wrote:

> x = [1,2,3]
> 
> for i in x:
>   i = 2
> 
> This doesn't change x.  2 questions:
> 
> 1) Why not?  Why doesn't assign to an iterator of a mutable type change
> the underlying object?

because i doesn't point to an iterator, but instead to the value. The line

i = 2

rebinds i to the value 2 - which doesn't affect the list x.

In python, an iterator has only a next()-method. So its immutable and only
capable of delivering the values in the order they appear in the underlying 
collection. 

> 2) What is the preferred way to do this?

For lists, you could do


for index, v in enumerate(x):
   x[index] = 2


-- 
Regards,

Diez B. Roggisch


From newsuser at itgoesclick.com  Tue Apr 20 02:03:38 2004
From: newsuser at itgoesclick.com (Noah from IT Goes Click)
Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 06:03:38 GMT
Subject: I'm looking for a good overview of Tk concepts.
Message-ID: <_23hc.186323$oR5.125527@pd7tw3no>

I'm comming from the background of being primarily a data processing 
programmer (Python) and I'd like to do some GUI stuff for a comercial 
project but I have quite a bit of time, nothing too complex but it has 
to work on Windows98+ OSX and Solaris so I was thinking Tkinter. I was 
wondering if there were some sites with a good overview of the whole 
Python +Tk shpeal, I've got some code examples and "Programming Python 
2nd Edition" but that's more of a learn by example, rather than an 
overview of concepts. Anyone have a good recommendation?


From roy at panix.com  Mon Apr 26 13:12:11 2004
From: roy at panix.com (Roy Smith)
Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2004 13:12:11 -0400
Subject: Is Perl *that* good? (was: How's ruby compare to it older bro
References: <mailman.18.1082989111.25742.python-list@python.org>
	<lNadndrvs_FarRDdRVn-vA@powergate.ca>
	<108qcobc4m8g972@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <roy-AEA452.13121026042004@reader2.panix.com>

claird at lairds.com (Cameron Laird) wrote:
> Over in Perlmark, Randal "often" (his adverb) claims
> no one'd use Tcl now if Expect and Tk hadn't kept it
> alive.

I don't know about that.  What Tcl lacks in power and expressiveness, it 
makes up for in simplicity of use, quick learning curve, and ease of 
embedding/extending.  I've written a lot of Tcl code, and never used 
either Expect or Tk.  I think Tcl fills a valid niche, especially for 
small embedded applications.

I'll go further than that; I think everybody who considers themselves a 
professional programmer should learn Tcl.  Even if you never use it in 
anger, it's interesting and useful to explore different corners of the 
"language design concept" space.  For the same reason, I think people 
should learn postscript, and try writing some real programs in it (no, 
it's not just a printer language).

It's important to keep learning new stuff, and to recognize that however 
great your favorite tool d'jour is, there's going to be something better 
coming along in the future.  Perl was invented because the mammoth 
shell/awk/sed/grep scripts of the day were getting unmanageable, and 
gained such popularity because it was better than the alternatives.  
Inertia, and lack of real competition has kept it alive for 20 years, 
but it's clear that better things have come along.

By the same token, while Python is in its ascendancy, it's foolish to 
think nothing better will come along.  It might be one of the Python 
outgrowths like the brand-new Prothon, or a current competitor like 
Ruby, or something even more afield like D, or something not yet 
invented.  But it'll happen.

My advice is to celebrate the joy that Python gives us today (just like 
Unix sysadmins celebrated Perl's introduction 20 years ago), but keep 
trying new things too.  5 years ago, Pythonistas (was the term even 
invented then?) were crazy rebels.  Today, they're the fashionable avant 
garde.  5 years from now, they'll be comfortably mainstream.  10 years 
from now, they'll be old-fashioned.  And 20 years from now, they'll be 
dinosaurs.  Don't let yourself become a dinosaur.


From heikowu at ceosg.de  Thu Apr 22 04:06:58 2004
From: heikowu at ceosg.de (Heiko Wundram)
Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2004 10:06:58 +0200
Subject: Python use large scale projects
In-Reply-To: <47fc6058.0404212327.24163290@posting.google.com>
References: <47fc6058.0404212327.24163290@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <200404221006.58682.heikowu@ceosg.de>

Am Donnerstag 22 April 2004 09:27 schrieb limor:
> I'd really like to talk with someone who is using this language in his
> work for large scale projects.

btw. you'd like to look at some large-scale projects written in Python which 
are out there, twisted (www.twistedmatrix.com) being one, Zope (www.zope.org) 
being the other, which seem to be both well-maintainable and -maintained by 
the group of programmers working on it. And I've yet to hear the devs 
complain about the code not being maintainable on their mailing-lists (okay, 
maybe Zope isn't such a fine example... ;))

Heiko.



From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Thu Apr  1 15:19:40 2004
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 1 Apr 2004 15:19:40 -0500
Subject: Python 3.0 (was Re: Prothon Prototypes vs Python Classes)
References: <569c605ld1cj8fc1emolk08ete0s1prls1@4ax.com>
	<106di86neu1qh4d@news.supernews.com>
	<40675F08.9070402@mlug.missouri.edu>
	<258fd9b8.0403301237.60528600@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <c4htgs$i5s$1@panix1.panix.com>

In article <258fd9b8.0403301237.60528600 at posting.google.com>,
Magnus Lyck? <magnus at thinkware.se> wrote:
>Michael <mogmios at mlug.missouri.edu> wrote in message news:<40675F08.9070402 at mlug.missouri.edu>...
>>
>> They're planning to remove tab indention support in 3.0? I for one would 
>> be pissed off at such a change. 
>
>I don't think you need to worry. AFAIK Python 3 is the mythological
>if-I-could-turn-back-the-clock-and-undo-all-my-mistakes version
>of Python, which Guido probably won't have time to work with 
>until his son is big enough to help him. (He'll be 3 in November.)
>It will have little regard for backward compatibility, and if it
>does appear sooner than expected, you can expect Python 2.x to be
>maintaned in parallel for a long time.

Not quite.  Python 3000 is the mythical version; Python 3.0 is expected
to appear some day.  While there will be many changes that are not
backward compatible, your "little regard" is unlikely to be true: Guido
*likes* Python.
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

"usenet imitates usenet"  --Darkhawk


From tim.golden at viacom-outdoor.co.uk  Fri Apr  2 03:06:32 2004
From: tim.golden at viacom-outdoor.co.uk (Tim Golden)
Date: Fri, 2 Apr 2004 09:06:32 +0100 
Subject: Apologies
Message-ID: <F1921F85572CB04D9F55B14BDC76B3E44347FA@tdi_nt9.internal.viacom-outdoor.co.uk>

Apologies to all on the last for my rampant out-of-office
messages. I'm using Exchange (over which I have no control), 
and I thought it did the right thing by list replies. 

I'll make sure next time.

TJG


________________________________________________________________________
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From jcm at FreeBSD-uk.eu.org  Mon Apr 26 11:05:35 2004
From: jcm at FreeBSD-uk.eu.org (Jonathon McKitrick)
Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2004 16:05:35 +0100
Subject: Best way to add attributes to shelved objects?
In-Reply-To: <16521.29527.356495.151656@montanaro.dyndns.org>
References: <20040423193951.GC27351@dogma.freebsd-uk.eu.org>
	<16521.29527.356495.151656@montanaro.dyndns.org>
Message-ID: <20040426150535.GA63648@dogma.freebsd-uk.eu.org>

On Fri, Apr 23, 2004 at 02:49:43PM -0500, Skip Montanaro wrote:
: 
:     jm> I'm working on an app that persists a few classes with shelve.  But
:     jm> if I load older saved classes, I get an exception in code that uses
:     jm> the new attributes, of course.
: 
:     jm> What is the best way to load these older classes, check for the new
:     jm> attributes, and add them so they will work with the new code?
: 
: Why not check for those attributes in your __getstate__ method and add
: default (or computed) values for any missing attributes?

I tried experimenting with these, and could not get them to work.
I had main() create a class, then shelve it.  Then I added a new attribute
to the class source code, and a statement to print it.  When I tried hooking
in __setstate__ and/or __getstate__ to load __dict__, it still did not find
the new attribute when loading.

Are there any examples on how to do this?


jm
-- 
My other computer is your Windows box.



From anton at vredegoor.doge.nl  Fri Apr 30 14:33:32 2004
From: anton at vredegoor.doge.nl (Anton Vredegoor)
Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2004 20:33:32 +0200
Subject: Feedback on Sets, and Partitions
References: <mailman.136.1083282936.25742.python-list@python.org>
	<5b42ae4.0404292354.86c7026@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <40929c3e$0$125$3a628fcd@reader3.nntp.hccnet.nl>

eadorio at yahoo.com (Ernie) wrote:

>I have an implementation done  in python, not using sets but rather an
>array of integers which can be used for indexing, for processing
>equivalences and set partitions (See
>http://www.geocities.com/eadorio/equiv.pdf).

Thanks.

Here's something I wrote in 2000. I just did some very superficial
inspection of the code and adapted a few names that would not be ok
anymore, now that we have sets, but very likely I would do things very
differently now.

It might start off other implementations though so I'm providing it
below here.

# SetPart.py : return a set divided into subsets. The possible ways
# this can be done are indexed. Algorithms are adapted from the book
# "Combinatorial Algorithms..." (1999) by Donald Kreher and 
# Douglas Stinson.
# See also: http://www.math.mtu.edu/~kreher/cages.html
# Translated and adapted for Python by Anton Vredegoor:
# anton at vredegoor.doge.nl 19 jun 2000
# last update: april 2004

class SetPart:

    def __init__(self, aset):
        self.aset = aset
        self.m = len(self.aset)
        self.d = self.GeneralizedRGF(self.m)
        self.count = self.d[self.m][0]
 
    def __getitem__(self, index):
        # Partition number index
        if index > self.count - 1:
             raise IndexError 
        rgf =  self.UnrankRGF(self.m, index)
        result = self.RGFToSetPart(self.m, rgf, self.aset)
        return result[1:]

## **  Algorithm 3.12
    def RGFToSetPart(self, m, b, aset):
        # Transform a restricted growth function list into a partition
        A = []
        n = 1
        for i in range(1,m+1):
            if b[i] > n:
                n = b[i]
        for i in range(n+1):
            A.append([])
        for i in range(1,m+1):
            A[b[i]].append(aset[i-1])
        return A
            
## **  Algorithm 3.14
    def GeneralizedRGF(self, m):
        # Compute the values d[i.j]
        d = [[1L] * (m+1) for i in range(m+1)]
        for i in range(1,m+1):
            for j in range(0,m-i+1):
                d[i][j] = j * d[i-1][j] + d[i-1][j+1]
        return d

##**  Algorithm 3.16    
    def UnrankRGF(self, m, r):
        # Unrank a restricted grow function
        f = [1] * (m+1)
        j = 1
        d = self.d
        for i in range(2,m+1):
            v = d[m-i][j]
            cr = j*v
            if cr <= r:
                f[i] = j + 1
                r -= cr
                j += 1
            else:
                f[i] = r / v + 1
                r  %= v
        return f

def test():
    aset = range(5)
    P = SetPart(aset)
    print P.count
    for x in P:
         print x

if __name__ == '__main__':
    test()

Anton


From steve at ninereeds.fsnet.co.uk  Wed Apr  7 17:26:56 2004
From: steve at ninereeds.fsnet.co.uk (Stephen Horne)
Date: Wed, 07 Apr 2004 22:26:56 +0100
Subject: OFF-TOPIC:: Why Lisp is not my favorite programming language
References: <165b3efa.0403030443.4d591f04@posting.google.com>
	<40460dd5$0$5916$7a628cd7@news.club-internet.fr>
	<d771b842.0403040735.3b5200ae@posting.google.com>
	<e87fc4b0.0403221114.254b7ee5@posting.google.com>
	<d771b842.0404061258.655b8e56@posting.google.com>
	<6in670lrldbjkuujle68a526293j57a7mn@4ax.com>
	<tyfu0zwvx9a.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
Message-ID: <vds870dmiitoj22gla08q6j9816g0hslit@4ax.com>

On 07 Apr 2004 13:32:49 +0200, Jacek Generowicz
<jacek.generowicz at cern.ch> wrote:

>Now just what do you mean when you say "LISP is normally interpreted" ?

That would be "I'm at least twenty years out of date, and stupid as
well for not checking my facts before posting".

Sorry.


-- 
Steve Horne

steve at ninereeds dot fsnet dot co dot uk


From loic at fejoz.net  Mon Apr 19 03:48:01 2004
From: loic at fejoz.net (Yermat)
Date: Mon, 19 Apr 2004 09:48:01 +0200
Subject: Proposed PEP: Treating Builtins as Constants in the Standard
 Library
In-Reply-To: <5d83790c.0404171557.3db69f48@posting.google.com>
References: <5d83790c.0404171557.3db69f48@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <c600af$22s$3@arcturus.ciril.fr>

Raymond Hettinger wrote:
> Comments are invited on the following proposed PEP.
> 
> 
> Raymond Hettinger
> 
> -------------------------------------------------------
> 
> 
> 
> PEP: 329
> Title: Treating Builtins as Constants in the Standard Library
> Author: Raymond Hettinger <python at rcn.com>
> Status: Pre-PEP
> 
> 
> Abstract
> ========
> 
> This proposal is to add a private function for treating builtin
> references as constants and to apply that function throughout
> the standard library.

Is it really a good thing to do it manually?
Shouldn't be done automatically by a simple analyser?

-- 
Yermat



From pinard at iro.umontreal.ca  Wed Apr 21 20:32:52 2004
From: pinard at iro.umontreal.ca (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Fran=E7ois?= Pinard)
Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2004 20:32:52 -0400
Subject: __metaclass__ = type (was: Re: if (__name__ == '__main__'):
	main(sys.argv[1:]))
In-Reply-To: <11Bhc.2149$hM2.1561@news02.roc.ny>
References: <01c601c4271b$7f7300a0$b401010a@sparta>
	<4085A445.1050303@heneryd.com>
	<mailman.833.1082551131.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<11Bhc.2149$hM2.1561@news02.roc.ny>
Message-ID: <20040422003252.GA16351@alcyon.progiciels-bpi.ca>

[Lee Harr]
> On 2004-04-21, Fran?ois Pinard <pinard at iro.umontreal.ca> wrote:

> > __metaclass__ = type

> Is there any reason to stick with old-style classes?

For your new programs, there is probably no good reason to worry about
old-style classes.  For your old programs, it is likely that you will
not meet problems on the average by the mere action of switching to
types.  However, there are areas of incompatibilities indeed, that one
may stumble upon, if one were pushing a bit deep in the internals.

> I mostly just create classes the old way and never even think about
> sub-classing object.

There are some new features, and corrections to previously debatable
features, which are not available in the old-style classes.  If you do
very simple uses of classes, always, you might choose to ignore the
difference.

-- 
Fran?ois Pinard   http://www.iro.umontreal.ca/~pinard



From python at rcn.com  Thu Apr 22 17:15:23 2004
From: python at rcn.com (Raymond Hettinger)
Date: 22 Apr 2004 14:15:23 -0700
Subject: mutable list iterators - a proposal
References: <e4e0340c.0403150334.4faeb3a3@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.21.1079366957.12241.python-list@python.org>
	<e4e0340c.0403160058.626d0a35@posting.google.com>
	<5d83790c.0403170242.759ac8d9@posting.google.com>
	<e4e0340c.0403210627.2cfe88c8@posting.google.com>
	<5d83790c.0403211210.703991c2@posting.google.com>
	<e4e0340c.0403221540.1acdc5b1@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <5d83790c.0404221315.4ad5fc00@posting.google.com>

[Raymond] 
> > All the contortions in the code still suggest to me that the use case
> > needs a different algorithm.  Try rewriting it with separate input and
> > output lists.  My bet is that the code is clearer and more
> > maintainable.

[Jess Austin]
> My original use case was 3 classes in 30 lines, not including the
> subclassing of list.

Depending on your application, there may be a good alternative to
mutating in-place while iterating.  Consider using a Queue object or
something similar (collections.deque in Py2.4, deque objects on ASPN,
or lists with append() and pop(0)):

while inputlist:
    datum = inputlist.pop(0)
    [processing with the element]
    if somecondition:
         inputlist.append(datum)
    else:
         continue   # effectively removing the element

The idea is to get around the issues of mutating in-place by removing
the element in question, processing it, and if needed again, adding to
the end of the queue.

The ASPN recipes on queues show show to do this a bit more efficiently
than with the list object but the idea is the same.



> I love to use it.  Iterators and list comprehensions were good, but
> coupled with itertools they are great.
> 
> Thanks, Raymond, for all you've done for Python.

Thanks for the accolades.


Raymond


From dmq at gain.com  Tue Apr 27 19:53:13 2004
From: dmq at gain.com (David MacQuigg)
Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2004 16:53:13 -0700
Subject: What is good about Prothon?
References: <bniq80hiib0gauiltuntk9jvia2getbnj4@4ax.com>
	<nxdjc.400$Qy.363@fed1read04>
	<m0ps8092jss5mhpopkbj0a4hg0m0rlppqh@4ax.com>
	<vDvjc.5555$Qy.2995@fed1read04>
Message-ID: <31st80lj1utns91pmm34ki7dsoqv34h4bb@4ax.com>

On Tue, 27 Apr 2004 09:12:11 -0700, "Mark Hahn" <mark at prothon.org>
wrote:

>You have argued this in the Prothon mailing lists for almost a month with
>Greg and me.  Please don't just start it up again here (about Prothon I
>mean).

Mark,  Stop making false statements about me.  If you have personal
criticism, send me an email.

You now have 5 out of 9 postings on this thread.  I don't have time to
keep up with this, so anyone following this thread please don't take
my lack of further response as lack of interest in your feedback.  My
filter is set to ignore "Prothon" in the subject line.

Please join me on the new thread "Ideas for Python 3".

-- Dave




From michele.simionato at poste.it  Fri Apr 30 00:07:48 2004
From: michele.simionato at poste.it (Michele Simionato)
Date: 29 Apr 2004 21:07:48 -0700
Subject: Closures
References: <mailman.128.1083272640.25742.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <95aa1afa.0404292007.6a28a806@posting.google.com>

Gustavo Niemeyer <niemeyer at conectiva.com> wrote in message news:<mailman.128.1083272640.25742.python-list at python.org>...
> import sys
> 
> class Closure:
>     def __init__(self):
>         self.__dict__ = sys._getframe().f_back.f_locals
> 
> def getFunc():
>     counter = 0
>     c = Closure()
>     def count():
>         c.counter += 1
>         print c.counter
>     return count
> 
> c = getFunc()
> c()
> c()
> c()


This is a nice hack! Why not to make it available as a Cookbook recipe?

           Michele Simionato


From tkpmep at hotmail.com  Thu Apr 22 22:55:07 2004
From: tkpmep at hotmail.com (Thomas Philips)
Date: 22 Apr 2004 19:55:07 -0700
Subject: Subclasses in Python
Message-ID: <b4a8ffb6.0404221855.7239bb82@posting.google.com>

I'm teaching myself programming using Python, and have a question
about subclasses. My game has two classes, Player and Alien, with
identical functions, and I want to make Player a base class and Alien
a derived class. The two classes are described below

class Player(object):
    #Class attributes for class Player
    threshold = 50
    n=0 #n is the number of players

    #Private methods for class Player
    def __init__(self,name):
        self.name = name
        self.strength = 100
        Player.n +=1

    def __del__(self):
        Player.n -=1
        print "You got me, Alien"
    
    #Public methods for class Player
    def blast(self,enemy,energy):
        enemy.hit(energy)

    def hit(self,energy):
        self.strength -= energy
        if(self.strength <= Player.threshold):
            self.__del__()

class Alien(Player):
    #Class attributes for class Alien
    threshold = 100
    n=0 #n is the number of players

    #Private methods for class Alien
    def __init__(self,name):
        self.name = name
        self.strength = 100
        Alien.n +=1

    def __del__(self):
        Alien.n -=1
        print "You got me, earthling"
    
    #Public methods for class Alien
    def hit(self,energy):
        self.strength -= energy
        if(self.strength <= Alien.threshold):
            self.__del__()

The two classes are almost identical, except that:
1. When a new player is instantiated or destroyed, Player.n is
incremented/decremented, while when a new alien is instantiated,
Alien.n is incremented/decremented.
2. When hit by an energy blast, the player and the alien have
different thresholds below which they die.

How can I base the Alien's __init__(), __del__() and hit() methods on
the Player's methods, while ensuring that the appropriate class
variables are incremented/decremented when a new object is
instantiated and that the appropriate threshold is used when the
player/alien is hit by an energy bolt?

Thomas Philips


From no.email at please.com  Sun Apr 11 07:15:11 2004
From: no.email at please.com (Stevie_mac)
Date: Sun, 11 Apr 2004 12:15:11 +0100
Subject: Static Data?
References: <2FTdc.56817$Id.5813@news-binary.blueyonder.co.uk>
	<lqXdc.58151$Id.15238@news-binary.blueyonder.co.uk>
	<c5ausj$qfb$01$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <c5b9ap$uo1$1@news.wplus.net>

Thanks Peter, I really appreciate this - I'm gonna trim this down to a short tutorial - I personally think (even having
read up on classes & scope) that this was the toughest thing to get my head around.

"Peter Otten" <__peter__ at web.de> wrote in message news:c5ausj$qfb$01$1 at news.t-online.com...
> Stevie_mac wrote:
>
> > In Jeffs solution, Is self._ID the same variable as _ID (declared
> > immediately after class Counted). Is there 3 _IDs? If you have the time,
>
> Jeff Epler's code with annotations:
>
> class Counted:
>     _ID = 0 # set the class attribute; same as Counted._ID = 0
>
>     def __init__(self):
>         Counted._ID += 1 # increment the class attribute
>         self._ID = Counted._ID # set the instance attribute to the
>                                # current value of the class attribute
>
> > could you explain (nothing fancy, just brief) the meaning of declaring
> > variables in different
> > locations (like self, below class, as part of class, in a class def).
> > This would be greatly appreciated.
> >
> > and Peters solution
> > class Object:
> >     _ID = 1
> >     def __init__(self):
> >         self.ID = Object._ID
> >         Object._ID += 1
> > Is Object._ID a class instance variable and self.ID a 'shared' class
> > variable
>
> This is basically the same as Jeff's. I just chose different names for the
> class attribute (_ID) and instance attribute (ID).
>
> If you set an attribute in the class,
>
> class Object:
>     clsattr = 1
>
> that is the same as
>
> class Object:
>     pass
> Object.clsattr = 1
>
> If you set an instance attribute you always need the instance:
>
> inst = Object()
> inst.attr = 2
>
> Inside a method it's the same, only the instance will most likely be named
> self.
>
> class Object:
>     def method(self, newvalue):
>         self.attr = newvalue
>
> Now for attribute lookup:
>
> inst.attr
>
> will first look up attr in the instance, and if it's not there, it will fall
> back to the class:
>
> >>> class Object:
> ...     pass
> ...
> >>> Object.attr = "in class"
> >>> inst = Object()
> >>> inst.attr
> 'in class'
> >>> inst.attr = "in instance"
> >>> inst.attr
> 'in instance'
>
> The class attribute is still there, only "shaded" bye the instance
> attribute:
>
> >>> Object.attr
> 'in class'
>
> Now let's delete the instance attribute:
>
> >>> del inst.attr
> >>> inst.attr
> 'in class'
>
> The class attribute becomes visible again.
>
> Once you have understood the above, classmethods are just a another way to
> access the class instead of the instance. The advantage over an explicit
> use of the class identifier is that with inheritance they always provide
> the actual class:
>
> >>> class Object(object):
> ...     def method(cls):
> ...             print cls.__name__
> ...     method = classmethod(method)
> ...
> >>> class Sub(Object):
> ...     pass
> ...
> >>> Object().method()
> Object
> >>> Sub().method()
> Sub
>
> Peter
>




From loic at fejoz.net  Mon Apr  5 11:40:23 2004
From: loic at fejoz.net (Yermat)
Date: Mon, 05 Apr 2004 17:40:23 +0200
Subject: design by contract versus doctest
In-Reply-To: <407174ea$0$5066$4d4ebb8e@news.nl.uu.net>
References: <407174ea$0$5066$4d4ebb8e@news.nl.uu.net>
Message-ID: <c4rum0$rnl$1@arcturus.ciril.fr>

aku wrote:
> There seems to be a contradictive approach in 
> these two things. Example: In the doctest documentation
> (http://www.python.org/doc/current/lib/module-doctest.html)
> a required precondition (i.e. n is an integer and >= 0)
> is verified in the function itself:
> 
> if not n >= 0:
>         raise ValueError("n must be >= 0")
> 
> But in "design by contract" this responsibility is squarely 
> on the shoulders  of the caller, and is *not* checked in
> the function.
> 
> I'm confused as to what the "best" approach is.
> 
> Isn't it so, that by applying DBC, a lot of unittests can be
> made redundant?
> 
> shan.

I disagree with you !
Both are needed and not contradictory...

In design by contract, you assume that caller do not call you with 
stupid argument. So you can see this precondition as something sure or 
as something to check.
In the language that use the most Design by Contract, ie Eiffel, by 
default it check those condition on all call and give you something like 
and assert Error. (see 
http://www.python.org/doc/essays/metaclasses/Eiffel.py for something 
similar in python). But when you have finish to write your application 
you can compile it without those check because you are sure nobody will 
do false check !
Like in python if you optimize byte code (option -O), it delete all 
assertions.

Hence there is no contradiction.
And to improve your code, you can (must?) do unittest with, for example, 
doctest.

Yermat





From max at alcyone.com  Wed Apr 21 16:55:03 2004
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2004 13:55:03 -0700
Subject: CamelCase versus wide_names (Prothon)
References: <UHxfc.9323$dZ1.3740@fed1read04>
	<6e0680ac.0404211252.7f7b4358@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <4086DFA7.9736E7D3@alcyone.com>

Mike wrote:

> Since Python has removed the need for the ';' character, how about
> using that as a word separator? It's very easy to type, as it is right
> next to the 'L' key on a qwerty keyboard.
> 
> Here;is;a;test;paragraph.;What;do;you;think?;Is;it;the;greatest;programming;language;invention;since;the
> ;curly;brace?

This is a really stellar example of why designing a language by
committee doesn't work very well ...

-- 
 __ Erik Max Francis && max at alcyone.com && http://www.alcyone.com/max/
/  \ San Jose, CA, USA && 37 20 N 121 53 W && AIM erikmaxfrancis
\__/ Who shall stand guard to the guards themselves?
    -- Juvenal


From asdf at asdf.com  Fri Apr  9 17:58:52 2004
From: asdf at asdf.com (asdf sdf)
Date: Fri, 09 Apr 2004 21:58:52 GMT
Subject: Why Activestate Python ?
In-Reply-To: <8089854e.0404090025.141f090c@posting.google.com>
References: <8089854e.0404090025.141f090c@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <w0Fdc.35102$uf5.19617@newssvr29.news.prodigy.com>

Fuzzyman wrote:
> Again... a silly newbie question which might have an obvious
> answer.... but *why* is their an alternative distribution of python by
> activestate ?
> 
> Apart fromt he fact that they bundle Mark Hammond's Windows Extensions
> with it (in the windows version) - what is to be gained from using
> their distributio instead of the 'normal' one ?
> 
> Regards,
> 
> 
> Fuzzy
> 
> http://www.voidspace.org.uk/atlantibots/pythonutils.html

i think there is an impression generally that Win32 is a harder build 
platform for OSS projects than Linux-Unix.  Very unscientifically, I 
think my reading of message boards supports that, at least for Apache, 
Python, and their related modules.

I've never tried to build it myself.

The activestate distribution includes Help files in compiled html 
format.  Which I do not prefer.  I just download the doc of interest 
from the python site.



From max at alcyone.com  Fri Apr  2 05:21:30 2004
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Fri, 02 Apr 2004 02:21:30 -0800
Subject: Simple text markup (-> HTML)
References: <tyf3c7m1zic.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
Message-ID: <406D3EAA.16466030@alcyone.com>

Jacek Generowicz wrote:

> I'm looking for something to help developers wirte documentation for
> bits of software they are writing.

reStructredText.  Bigtime.

-- 
 __ Erik Max Francis && max at alcyone.com && http://www.alcyone.com/max/
/  \ San Jose, CA, USA && 37 20 N 121 53 W && AIM erikmaxfrancis
\__/ Everybody's playing the game / But nobody's rules are the same
    -- Florence, _Chess_


From greg at invalid.invalid  Wed Apr 28 15:14:38 2004
From: greg at invalid.invalid (Greg Krohn)
Date: Wed, 28 Apr 2004 19:14:38 GMT
Subject: Don't understand wxPython ids
In-Reply-To: <408fb665$0$17264$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
References: <408ed938$0$17263$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
	<BOEjc.12559$eZ5.4366@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>
	<408f3061$0$17258$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
	<zCJjc.12791$eZ5.2682@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>
	<408fb665$0$17264$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
Message-ID: <yoTjc.13255$eZ5.1700@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>

Grant Edwards wrote:
> I guess it's simple enough to subclass the widgets I use and
> add one, but it feels like going to buy a new car and having to
> bring your own steering wheel.

Well, no I meant importing something like this each time (it doesn't 
actually work, BTW):


import wx

#Subclass wx.PyEventBinder to catch all EVT_* args
class MyPyEventBinder(wx.PyEventBinder):
     def __init__(self, *args, **kwargs):
         # Look for EVT_* args, bind them and del them
         for kw in kwargs:
             if kw.startswith('EVT_'):
                 self.Bind(getattr(wx, kw), kwargs[kw])
                 del kwargs[kw]
         wx.PyEventBinder.__init__(self, *args, **kwargs)

#A little behind-the-scenes switcheroo
wx.PyEventBinder = MyPyEventBinder

if __name__ == '__main__':

     class MyFrame(wx.Frame):
         def __init__(self, *args, **kwargs):
             wx.Frame.__init__(self, *args, **kwargs)
             self.button = wx.Button(self, -1, "What's my id?", 
EVT_BUTTON=self.OnButtonPress)

         def OnButtonPress(self, event):
             self.button.SetLabel("My id is: %d" % self.button.GetId())

     app = wx.App()
     frame = MyFrame(None, -1, "Events and ids")
     frame.Show(True)
     app.MainLoop()



If I can't figure this out, I'll try subclassing individule widgets and 
throwing it in a module.

greg


From peter at engcorp.com  Sat Apr 24 08:55:56 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Sat, 24 Apr 2004 08:55:56 -0400
Subject: command-line args
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1.1082805753.27400.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.1.1082805753.27400.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <pqidndy4pqJB_hfdRVn-gQ@powergate.ca>

Michael wrote:

> What's the perfered method of passing command-line args throughout a 
> Python program given that globals don't seem to really exist? I thought 
> of writing them out to a python file and then importing them when 
> needed.. but that seems like it'd only work for a single process.. not 
> in instances where more than one user is running the program. There 
> isn't anything like a virtual file space that could be used for this? 
> Anyway to set a global variable?

Create an empty module called "globals" and import that wherever
needed.  Populate it with settings from the command-line parsing
stage.  Get fancier and put defaults in there to begin with, and
override them only if specified in the command-line parsing
area.  Flavour as needed...

(That's just one option, but in many ways the simplest.  Some of
us also use a simple "bag" type of object which we pass around
as required, but that's more awkward with really large applications.)

-Peter


From mayal at tiscali.be  Sat Apr 24 10:35:01 2004
From: mayal at tiscali.be (Paul Mayal)
Date: Sat, 24 Apr 2004 16:35:01 +0200
Subject: help: py2exe and com server
Message-ID: <408a78f5$0$41761$5fc3050@dreader2.news.tiscali.nl>

Hi,

I have written a com server in python 2.3 (ActiveState distribution). I have
build the dll with py2exe.
First of all, py2exe complain he can't find pythoncom module.
I can register the dll with regsvr32 on my development workstation. But when
I try to register the com dll on an another workstation, the registration
fail.

what am I missing ?

Georges







From fumanchu at amor.org  Tue Apr 20 15:35:21 2004
From: fumanchu at amor.org (Robert Brewer)
Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 12:35:21 -0700
Subject: co_freevars question
Message-ID: <DE1CF2B4FEC4A342BF62B6B2B334601E56202D@opus.amorhq.net>

Jeff Epler wrote:
> co_freevars names variables that come from an enclosing scope that is
> not module scope.
> 
> def g():
>     return y
> print g.func_code.co_freevars       # ()
> 
> def f():
>     y = 3
>     def g(): 
>         return y
>     print g.func_code.co_freevars   # ('y',)
> f()

Ah...got it. Thanks!


Robert Brewer
MIS
Amor Ministries
fumanchu at amor.org



From woodsplitter at rocketmail.com  Wed Apr 28 00:25:08 2004
From: woodsplitter at rocketmail.com (David Rushby)
Date: 27 Apr 2004 21:25:08 -0700
Subject: Newbie question: Where is python23 bcpp.lib?
References: <mailman.28.1083006128.25742.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <7876a8ea.0404272025.49c0634c@posting.google.com>

De La Maza Michael A GS-11 AFSPC/XPYS <Michael.DeLaMaza at PETERSON.af.mil> wrote in message news:<mailman.28.1083006128.25742.python-list at python.org>...
> Under Windows, I'm trying to make a program (Gambit Python APIs) using
> Borland (i.e., "make -f borland").
>  
> The Borland make file, shown below, wants python23_bcpp.lib in
> $(PYTHONDIR)\libs\.
>  
> Unfortunately, there is no such file (error shown below).  There is a
> python23.lib file but simply substituting python23 bcpp.lib with
> python23.lib does not work.

Because the official distributions of Python 2.3.x are compiled with
MSVC 6, python23.lib is in the Microsoft lib format (coff).  BCPP
requires the Borland format (omf).  BCPP includes a conversion utility
called coff2omf.exe.

The commands
  cd $(PYTHONDIR)\libs
  coff2omf.exe python23.lib python23_bcpp.lib
should create the required file.


From jcarlson at uci.edu  Thu Apr  1 02:34:08 2004
From: jcarlson at uci.edu (Josiah Carlson)
Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 23:34:08 -0800
Subject: From python-dev, space vs. tab controversy finally settled
In-Reply-To: <BrPac.5729$xw6.2105@fe1.columbus.rr.com>
References: <BrPac.5729$xw6.2105@fe1.columbus.rr.com>
Message-ID: <c4ggrj$ri6$1@news.service.uci.edu>

Carl Banks wrote:

> Here's a summary of the final decision Guido made concerning how
> Python will indent code in the future, from python-dev:
> 
> Guido had been planning to deprecate tabs in favor of spaces for
> awhile, although there have been good arguments for both tabs and
> spaces.  But he was never really comfortable pulling the rug out from
> half the user base.  However, today he finally decided on a compromise
> that has all the benefits of both spaces and tabs.
> 
> His decision was predicated by the recent decision of the Unicode
> Consortium to allocate some new codes for special use in programming
> languages.  The Consortium allocated codes for (among other things):
> several sets of left and right braces, several sets of quote
> characters, a couple universal comment markers, and several
> metacharacters for use in regular expressions.
> 
> However, the code that influenced Guido was a special indent code.
> Here's how it works: at the beginning of the line, you put in one
> "indent character" for each level of indentation.  Because Python will
> support Unicode fully by 3.0, Guido decided that this new Unicode
> character will be the one and only way to indent Python code.
> 
> Now, I'm sure everyone's aware that Unicode is getting kind of full,
> and so, rather than allocating precious ununsed slots to the new
> programming characters, the Consortium decided reallocate some codes
> that had been rarely used.  These codes fall in the range 0001 through
> 001F, excepting 000A and 001A (all codes in hexadecimal).  The new
> indent character has code 0009.
> 
> So, you should start using Unicode character 0009 to indent right
> away.  Python 2.4 will deprecate all indentation not using the new
> indent character, and Python 3.0 will not support any other
> indentation.


Great april fools joke, but no such conversation has gone on in 
Python-Dev in the last 3 months.

Better luck next time.

  - Josiah




From peter.schwalm at epost.de  Thu Apr  8 17:06:53 2004
From: peter.schwalm at epost.de (Peter Schwalm)
Date: 8 Apr 2004 14:06:53 -0700
Subject: Customizing the python search path depending on source directory
References: <5cf809e9.0404061853.41cd3c85@posting.google.com>
	<BbudnT8dYIUS8u7dRVn-vw@powergate.ca>
	<5cf809e9.0404070452.643b7053@posting.google.com>
	<hsWdncv_b86aY-7d4p2dnA@powergate.ca>
	<5cf809e9.0404071734.26f1078a@posting.google.com>
	<4dudnVzbRvwbyOjdRVn-sw@powergate.ca>
Message-ID: <5cf809e9.0404081306.5d8a81cb@posting.google.com>

Peter Hansen <peter at engcorp.com> wrote in message news:<4dudnVzbRvwbyOjdRVn-sw at powergate.ca>...
> Peter Schwalm wrote:
> 
> ... can you confirm that you get identical results if in each
> place where you typed "test1.py" you instead typed the
> equivalent with, for example, "python test1.py"?
> 

I have run the programs with "python <scriptname>.py" now. For my
purposes the results look identical - the source directory is still
not accessible during the processing of sitecustomize.py.

Here are the outputs of the explicit invocations:

Invocation from source directory:


E:\temp>python test1.py
---> C:\Python23\lib\sitecustomize.pyc ...
----------------------------------------------------------------
python-version= 2.3.2 (#49, Oct 24 2003, 13:37:57) [MSC v.1200 32 bit
(Intel)]
argv=
sys.argv does still not exist!
sys.modules["__main__"]=
sys.modules["__main__"].__file__ does still not exist
sys.path=
00: C:\WINNT\System32\python23.zip
01: C:\Python23\Lib\site-packages\Pythonwin
02: C:\Python23\Lib\site-packages\win32
03: C:\Python23\Lib\site-packages\win32\lib
04: C:\Python23\Lib\site-packages
05: C:\Python23\DLLs
06: C:\Python23\lib
07: C:\Python23\lib\plat-win
08: C:\Python23\lib\lib-tk
09: C:\Python23
10: C:\Python23\lib\site-packages\PIL
----------------------------------------------------------------
<--- C:\Python23\lib\sitecustomize.pyc ...
---> test1.py ...
----------------------------------------------------------------
python-version= 2.3.2 (#49, Oct 24 2003, 13:37:57) [MSC v.1200 32 bit
(Intel)]
argv= ['test1.py']
sys.modules["__main__"]= test1.py
sys.path=
00: E:\temp
01: C:\WINNT\System32\python23.zip
02: C:\Python23\Lib\site-packages\Pythonwin
03: C:\Python23\Lib\site-packages\win32
04: C:\Python23\Lib\site-packages\win32\lib
05: C:\Python23\Lib\site-packages
06: C:\Python23\DLLs
07: C:\Python23\lib
08: C:\Python23\lib\plat-win
09: C:\Python23\lib\lib-tk
10: C:\Python23
11: C:\Python23\lib\site-packages\PIL
----------------------------------------------------------------
<--- test1.py ...

E:\temp>


Invocation from different directory:

E:\temp\sub1>python ..\test1.py
---> C:\Python23\lib\sitecustomize.pyc ...
----------------------------------------------------------------
python-version= 2.3.2 (#49, Oct 24 2003, 13:37:57) [MSC v.1200 32 bit
(Intel)]
argv=
sys.argv does still not exist!
sys.modules["__main__"]=
sys.modules["__main__"].__file__ does still not exist
sys.path=
00: C:\WINNT\System32\python23.zip
01: C:\Python23\Lib\site-packages\Pythonwin
02: C:\Python23\Lib\site-packages\win32
03: C:\Python23\Lib\site-packages\win32\lib
04: C:\Python23\Lib\site-packages
05: C:\Python23\DLLs
06: C:\Python23\lib
07: C:\Python23\lib\plat-win
08: C:\Python23\lib\lib-tk
09: C:\Python23
10: C:\Python23\lib\site-packages\PIL
----------------------------------------------------------------
<--- C:\Python23\lib\sitecustomize.pyc ...
---> ..\test1.py ...
----------------------------------------------------------------
python-version= 2.3.2 (#49, Oct 24 2003, 13:37:57) [MSC v.1200 32 bit
(Intel)]
argv= ['..\\test1.py']
sys.modules["__main__"]= ..\test1.py
sys.path=
00: E:\temp
01: C:\WINNT\System32\python23.zip
02: C:\Python23\Lib\site-packages\Pythonwin
03: C:\Python23\Lib\site-packages\win32
04: C:\Python23\Lib\site-packages\win32\lib
05: C:\Python23\Lib\site-packages
06: C:\Python23\DLLs
07: C:\Python23\lib
08: C:\Python23\lib\plat-win
09: C:\Python23\lib\lib-tk
10: C:\Python23
11: C:\Python23\lib\site-packages\PIL
----------------------------------------------------------------
<--- ..\test1.py ...

E:\temp\sub1>

By the way, *if I remember that correctly*: to be able to invoke
python scripts simply by name ("test1" instead of "python test1.py")
you have to do
two things:

1)  set the environment variable PATHEXT such that it contains
".py"(see sample output from set command)
   
   E:\temp>set pathext
   PATHEXT=.COM;.EXE;.BAT;.CMD;.VBS;.VBE;.JS;.JSE;.WSF;.WSH;.PY;.py;.pyw;
            .pyc;.pys;.pyo
   E:\temp>

2) associate the file extension ".py" with c:\python23\python.exe
right click a .py-file in explorer, select "open with" (my translation
of the german "oeffnen mit") select python.exe as application and
check "open always with".

Thank you in advance
Peter Schwalm


From k.robert at gmx.de  Mon Apr 12 08:11:09 2004
From: k.robert at gmx.de (Robert)
Date: 12 Apr 2004 05:11:09 -0700
Subject: How to read & write standard password encrypted ZIP files?
Message-ID: <19804fd8.0404120411.3497925d@posting.google.com>

Is it possible to write & read standard password encrypted ZIP files
easily (using zipfile.ZipFile?)

Robert


From op73418 at mail.telepac.pt  Tue Apr  6 06:12:49 2004
From: op73418 at mail.telepac.pt (Gonçalo Rodrigues)
Date: Tue, 06 Apr 2004 11:12:49 +0100
Subject: slightly OT: BUT NEEDs to be said
References: <lvOdnRJzZ9244ezdRVn-uQ@powergate.ca>
	<8b42d1998c978c8c1cddf15c52a1c57b@dizum.com>
Message-ID: <8c057057tktogrhl3vsgskji165oj24t8d@4ax.com>

On Mon,  5 Apr 2004 21:50:07 +0200 (CEST), Nomen Nescio
<nobody at dizum.com> wrote:

[some text snipped]

>Sorry if I was ranting but here is some more rant:
>
>People have very real reason to fear MPFC: Highly educated/wealthy family background/private
>school/Oxford/Cambridge people jumping about and acting 'zany' and coming up
>with all sorts of useless sketches designed to appeal strictly to the liberal-elite
>is a fairly repulsive artistic concept especially if you do not find the style
>of MPFC even remotely amusing.
>
>Unfortunately this formula (hiring these sorts of people) was to become the
>bed rock of BBC alternative comedy for years to come (Ben Elton, Steven Fry
>etc etc) and remember people in the UK did not have the choice about this crap
>as it came out of their licence fee (that is another subject)
>
>So anyway I don't see quite those sorts of concepts woven into PHP, Perl,C,C++,
>Java or anything else....although there may well be similar things but *well*
>hidden as they should be
>
>If someone came up with a KKK language it might be attractive for members of
>the KKK but would generally be consideredly highly unacceptable and would attract
>much criticism. If someone came up with a language/interpreter based on their
>favourite TV show like I dunno 'Friends' or whatever it would be seen as ridiculous.
>If I came up with a scripting language called 'Ben Elton' then that would have
>extreme political overtones and just invoke all Ben Eltons extreme left wing
>radicalism.
>
>At the least MPFC is divisive (you either find it funny or you don't)
>
>Surely the uptake and use of a particular language (to solve a particular niche
>or set of problems) is at least in part due to the perceived politcal and artist
>*neutrality* of that language.
>
>If the author and contributors to Python wish to only encourage Python use
>on the basis that the end user has great admiration of MPFC (as amusingly hinted
>at by one of the other authors in this thread) you should perhaps restrict
>access to python.org and related sites and authenticate on that basis and call
>it a private members club....
>
>Cuddly cartoon characters like the Snake, or various BSD creatures = highly
>acceptable and good.
>
>MPFC = too aristically/politically/socially 'loaded' to be acceptable.
>

<amazed> Unbelievable... "socially loaded"... unbelievable...
<\amazed>

>Please drag the Python and python.org image out of the stuffy past and in line
>with similar projects

And you sir, are a Troll.

With my best regards,
G. Rodrigues


From joshway_without_spam at myway.com  Thu Apr 15 20:18:26 2004
From: joshway_without_spam at myway.com (JCM)
Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2004 00:18:26 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: CamelCase versus wide_names (Prothon)
References: <UHxfc.9323$dZ1.3740@fed1read04>
	<407ec022$0$54153$1b2cd167@news.wanadoo.nl>
	<roy-C4FD90.13444715042004@reader2.panix.com>
	<b9Afc.9345$dZ1.7703@fed1read04>
	<mailman.660.1082061118.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<ISEfc.9386$dZ1.5547@fed1read04>
Message-ID: <c5n8oh$4c9$1@fred.mathworks.com>

Mark Hahn <mark at prothon.org> wrote:
...
> (Unless there is some correlation with camelCase-loving and
> quick-responding :)

Yes, and in addition to being overzealous, those who prefer camelCase
are stubborn, sloppy coders, and have poor personal hygiene.


From beliavsky at aol.com  Wed Apr 28 10:58:39 2004
From: beliavsky at aol.com (beliavsky at aol.com)
Date: 28 Apr 2004 07:58:39 -0700
Subject: debugging code
References: <3064b51d.0404271139.6ec7057@posting.google.com>
	<408ee541$0$46510$39cecf19@news.twtelecom.net>
Message-ID: <3064b51d.0404280658.ccf1894@posting.google.com>

Rick Ratzel <rick.ratzel at magma-da.com> wrote in message news:<408ee541$0$46510$39cecf19 at news.twtelecom.net>...
> Python defines __debug__ to True by default, and False when 
> optimizations are enabled...meaning you can enable/disable code without 
> having to define/undefine vars ahead of time and without having to 
> change it prior to deployment.  This is how the "assert" statement 
> works.  You can only set __debug__ through the use of -O or -OO.

<SNIP>

Thanks -- I will take your suggestion. Where are the Python command
line options like -O and -OO documented? Typing 'python -h' just gives
me

-O     : optimize generated bytecode (a tad; also PYTHONOPTIMIZE=x)
-OO    : remove doc-strings in addition to the -O optimizations


From jepler at unpythonic.net  Tue Apr 13 21:13:09 2004
From: jepler at unpythonic.net (Jeff Epler)
Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2004 20:13:09 -0500
Subject: Looking for Python Definition
In-Reply-To: <ZvSdnbu-i7FDF-Hd4p2dnA@comcast.com>
References: <ZvSdnbu-i7FDF-Hd4p2dnA@comcast.com>
Message-ID: <20040414011309.GB8795@unpythonic.net>

You may want to read:
http://www.python.org/doc/faq/installed.html



From deetsNOSPAM at web.de  Tue Apr 27 14:50:44 2004
From: deetsNOSPAM at web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2004 20:50:44 +0200
Subject: Trying to write comments after escaping newline
References: <c6m9aq$pd5$1@news8.svr.pol.co.uk>
Message-ID: <c6m9so$so$01$3@news.t-online.com>

p brian wrote:

> mystring = "hello " + someVariable + \
>                  "multiple lines 4 clarity" + \
>                  someothervariable
> 
> The above works , but if I add comments
> 
> mystring = "hello " + someVariable + \     #comment
>                  "multiple lines 4 clarity" + \      #comment
>                  someothervariable                    #comment
> 
> it stops working because instead of escaping a newline I am now just
> escaping a space or tab.
> Is there some clever thing i have missed?

To make line continuation work, the newline at the end of an line has to be
escaped using an \ - and putting your comment there makes this exactly what
you already observed: a space or tab escape instead of the newline.

-- 
Regards,

Diez B. Roggisch


From vdazyvtm at tcaxwtrl.com  Wed Apr  7 11:14:04 2004
From: vdazyvtm at tcaxwtrl.com (Datatec)
Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2004 23:14:04 +0800
Subject: Take Online Surveys $10 to $125 per hr!
Message-ID: <40741b4f$0$4543$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au>

Our companies will pay you $5 to $75 for each suervey you fill out from
the comfort of your own home. Get paid $50 to $150 for participating in
focus group panels for 30 to 60 minutes. THAT'S IT! No catch, no gimmick.
Check it out at http://hop.clickbank.net/?datatec/surveys2







From graham__fawcett at hotmail.com  Sun Apr 25 23:17:30 2004
From: graham__fawcett at hotmail.com (Graham Fawcett)
Date: 25 Apr 2004 20:17:30 -0700
Subject: Python-list, Exotic sex is urgently necessary for you!
References: <E5E3A37F16I0JC42@python.org>
	<mailman.935.1082683672.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<EY1ic.31$Ah4.7@read3.inet.fi>
	<e9570f37.0404230655.15907007@posting.google.com>
	<sXTic.619$jM6.444@read3.inet.fi>
Message-ID: <e9570f37.0404251917.3923aa1e@posting.google.com>

Timo Virkkala <a at a.invalid> wrote in message news:<sXTic.619$jM6.444 at read3.inet.fi>...
> Graham Fawcett wrote:
> > Timo Virkkala <a at a.invalid> wrote in message news:<EY1ic.31$Ah4.7 at read3.inet.fi>...
> >>[disgusting content snipped]
> >>
> >>I've heard of sex with lots of kinds of animals, but Pythons? Wouldn't 
> >>that be a) difficult b) VERY dangerous?
> > 
> > It's no surprise you're not into snakes, Timo. Everyone knows that
> > Finns have fixations for flightless, fat waterfowl.
> 
> LOL! Where does that come from? =)

It's an obscure Linus Torvalds reference, about "Tux" the Linux
mascot. From the Wikipedia:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tux

According to Jeff Ayers, Linus Torvalds had a "fixation for
flightless, fat waterfowl" and Torvalds claims to have contracted
"penguinitis" after being gently nibbled by a penguin: "Penguinitis
makes you stay awake at nights just thinking about penguins and
feeling great love towards them."

I hope this condition doesn't sound *too* familiar, Timo!  ;-)

Cheers,

-- Graham


From vineet at eswap.com  Mon Apr  5 21:05:34 2004
From: vineet at eswap.com (Vineet Jain)
Date: Mon, 5 Apr 2004 21:05:34 -0400
Subject: How to do [1]*4 for a tuple
Message-ID: <KPENJIMKHJPNKOLFIHBNCECHCGAA.vineet@eswap.com>

I'm not sure I understand why [1]*4 and (1)*4 work differently? [1]*4
results in [1, 1, 1, 1] while (1)*4 results in 4. There are times when I
have to do the following:

'%s some value %s and some other text %s' % (a)*3

as apposed to

'%s some value %s and some other text %s' % (a, a, a)

In this case I always end up doing

'%s some value %s and some other text %s' % [a]*3

VJ




From roccomoretti at hotpop.com  Wed Apr  7 09:53:50 2004
From: roccomoretti at hotpop.com (Rocco Moretti)
Date: Wed, 07 Apr 2004 08:53:50 -0500
Subject: [OT] The Cracker's Guide To Python
In-Reply-To: <04g770lqpbhdgr3n3b9mnu9o8f08fdkgk0@4ax.com>
References: <04g770lqpbhdgr3n3b9mnu9o8f08fdkgk0@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <c5115b$5o6$1@news.doit.wisc.edu>

Christos TZOTZIOY Georgiou wrote:

> So jokingly, how do we advertise python in that "underground" world?
> Easy: let's provide a crack for every version of python for windows! :)
> It doesn't matter what it does, perhaps only change the copyright
> message into "H4x0r3d by Guid0 T34m" by changing directly the
> pythonxx.dll.  The only problem would be that if the crack is written in
> Python, it won't be able to open the dll as read-write...

Like most things in Python, the solution is simple.

Add the following to "site.py" in the standard library directly after 
the import:

===
sys.copyright = "H4x0r3d by Guid0 T34m"
===

Viola!
====
Python 2.3 (#46, Jul 29 2003, 18:54:32) [MSC v.1200 32 bit (Intel)] on win32
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
 >>> copyright
H4x0r3d by Guid0 T34m
 >>>

====


From danbmil at cmu.edu  Tue Apr  6 18:29:00 2004
From: danbmil at cmu.edu (dan miller (moderator, s.p.d))
Date: Tue, 06 Apr 2004 15:29:00 -0700
Subject: what is happening here?
Message-ID: <c4vaum$q39$1@nntp.ece.cmu.edu>

trying to figure out scoping of 'globals' in modules.  So I have test.py:

glob = 1

def setglob(v):
   global glob
   glob = v

def getglob():
   return glob


and I do this:

 >>> from test import *
 >>> glob
1
 >>> getglob()
1
 >>> glob=2
 >>> glob
2
 >>> getglob()
1
 >>> setglob(3)
 >>> getglob()
3
 >>> glob
2


Seems to me like the first time I invoke glob, it creates a new global 
in my namespace, and initializes it to the value of the glob in test.py. 
    Seems counterintuitive!



From eric at zomething.com  Fri Apr  2 22:39:29 2004
From: eric at zomething.com (Eric @ Zomething)
Date: Fri, 2 Apr 2004 19:39:29 -0800
Subject: first python program.. lyrics search
Message-ID: <20040402193929.1818612568.eric@zomething.com>

Gustavo wrote:

> I am trying to parse the html code and get the information that i need. 
[snip]
> 
> The problem is once I have the M.htm page I don't now how to get from 
> the html code the "http://www.musicsonglyrics.com/M/Metallica/Metallica 
> lyrics.htm" link to proceed with the search. I tried to read about 
> Regular Expressions [snip]


There are several challenges to this.  First, you will find lyric website webpages that have, for example, "Metallica" on them, but do not have any Metallica lyrics on them.  Second, the organizational (file/database) method for finding lyrics will vary by website.  Third, the presentation of lyrics will vary by website.  This makes it hard to generalize an approach, I think, without perhaps using a fairly robust spider.

As for lyric sites, there may also be some access impediments, depending on the site, and cagey sys admin's have been known to pollute the data sent in response to welcome requests.

I do think regular expressions are your friend, and can be used successfully to parse the lyrics, or other information, out of a specific website's pages, even if those pages are not, for example, valid (x)html.  One nice way to work into a workable understanding of RE is to use a program such as redemo.py which may have been included with your Python distribution under "/Scripts" or the equivalent.


It might be an interesting problem to identify song and poem lyrics by analyzing the strings (line length, word content, etc.), but I am not sure how favorable a success rate could be achieved.  I suppose its all about characterizing the data...  that could be fun.

good luck!


Eric 



From lbates at swamisoft.com  Mon Apr 26 15:48:30 2004
From: lbates at swamisoft.com (Larry Bates)
Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2004 14:48:30 -0500
Subject: iterating over collection, deleting entries
References: <c6gop3$5p7$03$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <vJOdnUm6nIoR-hDd4p2dnA@comcast.com>

I would do:

collection=[i for i in collection if not isBad(i)]

Larry Bates
Syscon, Inc.
"Patrick von Harsdorf" <patrick at harsdorf.de> wrote in message
news:c6gop3$5p7$03$1 at news.t-online.com...
> I want to iterate over a collection and delete all unwanted entries.
>
> for item in collection:
>     del item
>
> of course doesn?t do anything useful. Two things come to mind:
> a) iterating backwards over the collection using indexing, something like:
>
> for i in range(len(collection)-1, -1, -1):
>     item = collection[i]
>     if isBad(item) del collection[i]
>
> b) duplicating the collection, iterating over one and deleting from the
> other.
>
> Both solutions seem both ugly and expensive to me, solution a)
> probably isn?t even O(x) anymore.
>
> Please tell me, what?s the best way to do this?
>
>
> -- 
> Patrick von Harsdorf
> patrick at harsdorf.de
>
>
>
>




From michele.simionato at poste.it  Sun Apr  4 10:30:40 2004
From: michele.simionato at poste.it (Michele Simionato)
Date: 4 Apr 2004 07:30:40 -0700
Subject: __nonzero__ of iterators
References: <c4gjup$615$1@ttt14.vie.at.tttech.ttt>
Message-ID: <95aa1afa.0404040630.5008ebc7@posting.google.com>

Christian Eder <eder at tttech.com> wrote in message news:<c4gjup$615$1 at ttt14.vie.at.tttech.ttt>...
> <snip>
> I would like to read some comments on this topic as I'm sure that I'm 
> not the first one wondering whether the current behaviour should be that 
> way.

Indeed. You may want to read this thread of last summer:

http://groups.google.it/groups?hl=it&lr=&ie=UTF-8&threadm=2259b0e2.0307220744.156c95bf%40posting.google.com&rnum=1&prev=/groups%3Fhl%3Dit%26lr%3D%26ie%3DISO-8859-1%26q%3Dsimionato%2Bempty%2Biterator%26meta%3Dgroup%253Dcomp.lang.python.*

    Michele Simionato


From jacek.generowicz at cern.ch  Wed Apr  7 11:45:47 2004
From: jacek.generowicz at cern.ch (Jacek Generowicz)
Date: 07 Apr 2004 17:45:47 +0200
Subject: Dynamic creation of an object instance of a class by name
References: <10f99b0f.0404070656.5960e2c8@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <tyfk70rx044.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>

meyer at acm.org (Andre Meyer) writes:

> Hi all
> 
> I have been searching everywhere for this, but have not found a
> solution, yet.
> 
> What I need is to create an object that is an instance of a class (NOT a
> class instance!)

I'm sorry, I can't for the life of me figure out what the (semantic)
difference is between "intsance of a class" and "class instance".

> of which I only know the name as a string. This what I
> tried:
> 
> class A:
>     def __init__(self, id):
>        self.id = id
>     def getID(self):
>       print self.id
> 
> ca = new.classobj('A', (), {})

This creates a new class which will be called "A", displacing your
original class by the same name.

> oa1 = ca()
> oa2 = new.instance(ca)
> 
> oa1
> <__main__.A instance at 0x007E8AF8>
> 
> oa1.getID()
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>    File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
> AttributeError: A instance has no attribute 'getID'
> 
> oa2
> <__main__.A instance at 0x007E8AF8>
> 
> oa2.getID()
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>    File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
> AttributeError: A instance has no attribute 'getID'
> 
> 
> Thus, both ways only produce a class instance, but NOT an object of that
> class!!!

Yes, they produce an instance of your newly created class.

> How can I get a new object instance???

I think you mean to ask "How can I get a new instance of the class
whose name I have in a string?". In other words, you should be asking
yourself, "How can I get my hands on an object whose name[*] I have in a
string?" (One possible approach is shown below.)

> What else needs to be filled in for base_classes and __dict__ in
> new.classobj?

You can't do it that way ... that way you create a _new_ separate
class called "A".

Here's how you might achieve what you want:

>>> class A:
...     def __init__(self, id):
...        self.id = id
...     def getID(self):
...       print self.id
... 
>>> oa1 = globals()['A'](12345)
>>> oa1
<__main__.A instance at 0x8190844>
>>> oa1.getID()
12345
>>> 


[*] I'm a bit wary about using "name" here, because I don't really
    mean the name of the class, but the name of a variable that
    happens to refer to the class.
    
    For example, consider (in the context established above)
    
    >>> B = A
    >>> del A
    >>> B.__name__
    'A'
    >>> A.__name__
    Traceback (most recent call last):
      File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
    NameError: name 'A' is not defined
    
    So, while the name of the class is still "A", it is no longer
    known by an identifier of that name.


From listsub at wickedgrey.com  Tue Apr 20 17:07:00 2004
From: listsub at wickedgrey.com (Eli Stevens (WG.c))
Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 14:07:00 -0700
Subject: if (__name__ == '__main__'): main(sys.argv[1:])
Message-ID: <01c601c4271b$7f7300a0$b401010a@sparta>

I have a question about proper Python style when it comes to having a main
function in a module.  I'm fairly new to Python - a few months of
very-part-time tinkering (lots'o'Java at work, shrug); my apologies if this
has been hashed out before.  Random Googling didn't enlighten me, so instead
I'll ask here.  :)

Take the following strmod.py (it's silly, I know):
----
import sys
import getopt

def main(sys_argv):
  try:
    opts, args = getopt.getopt(sys_argv, "clstu")

    for str_toPrint in args:
      for opt, arg in opts:
        if opt == '-c':
          str_toPrint = str_toPrint.capitalize()
        elif opt == '-l':
          str_toPrint = str_toPrint.lower()
        elif opt == '-s':
          str_toPrint = str_toPrint.swapcase()
        elif opt == '-t':
          str_toPrint = str_toPrint.title()
        elif opt == '-u':
          str_toPrint = str_toPrint.upper()

      print str_toPrint
  except getopt.GetoptError:
    pass


if (__name__ == '__main__'):
  main(sys.argv[1:])
----

Now, from what I have seen in terms of examples etc. would do something like
(note the lack of sys_argv, and how sys.argv[1:] is imbedded in the
getop.getopt call):

----
import sys
import getopt

def main():
  try:
    opts, args = getopt.getopt(sys.argv[1:], "clstu")
# ...
      print str_toPrint
  except getopt.GetoptError:
    pass


if (__name__ == '__main__'):
  main()
----

This essentially makes strmod.main() uncallable by anything else that needs
command line args, right?  The first pattern allows calls like
strmod.main("-t -s pRINT mE tHE sAME uNTESTED".split()) from elsewhere.  It
seems to me that this would be very helpful when writing low-level utilities
that could be driven by other higher-level utilities without needing to fall
back to OS calls, etc.

So...  Is this a good idea?  Bad idea?  Is there a better way?  I'm just
trying to not fall into any newbie pit traps ("Hey, what's at the bottom of
this nifty hole?" ;).

TIA,
Eli

--
Give a man some mud, and he plays for a day.
Teach a man to mud, and he plays for a lifetime.
WickedGrey.com uses SpamBayes on incoming email:
               http://spambayes.sourceforge.net/
                                              --




From jamesl at appliedminds.com  Thu Apr  8 19:52:47 2004
From: jamesl at appliedminds.com (James Lamanna)
Date: Thu, 08 Apr 2004 16:52:47 -0700
Subject: Bug in struct.calcsize() ?
Message-ID: <4075E5CF.7080203@appliedminds.com>

Noticed this under 2.3.3:

struct.calcsize('H') => 2
struct.calcsize('BBB') => 3
struct.calcsize('BBBH') => 6

Umm, shouldn't 'BBBH' return 5?

Please CC me for I am not subscribed.

-- 
James Lamanna




From ed-no at spam-eepatents.com  Thu Apr  8 12:46:22 2004
From: ed-no at spam-eepatents.com (Ed Suominen)
Date: Thu, 08 Apr 2004 09:46:22 -0700
Subject: Distributing a Python based application on Linux
References: <98013c51.0404080807.6f08f1a3@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <LqGdndY037d8HOjdRVn-vA@centurytel.net>

One of the beauties of Linux is that you are neither required nor encouraged
to put together the big, monolithic installation packages that Windows
typically requires. Most (all?) distributions will include Python and most
of the modules you'll be needing.

-Ed Suominen

Ramki wrote:

> Hi !!
> 
> I have written an install script to deploy some of my product rpms.
> The install script does OS Version Check, OS Memory check, logging the
> status of install into a log file amongst other things.
> 
> Now the size of my product rpms is around 3 MB. If I am to distribute
> Python along with the install, it is taking around 12 MB totally (the
> python gz tar is around 9 MB), which is not ideal.
> 
> Is there way I can avoid this by distributing only the bare minimum
> Python related binary along with my rpms ?
> 
> Any help would be appreciated.
> 
> thanks,
> Ram.



From a-steinhoff at web.de  Fri Apr  2 04:34:28 2004
From: a-steinhoff at web.de (root)
Date: Fri, 02 Apr 2004 11:34:28 +0200
Subject: Just magic ...
In-Reply-To: <mailman.249.1080853115.20120.python-list@python.org>
References: <ddc19db7.0404011238.e6c2db9@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.249.1080853115.20120.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <c4jfh6$6pa$07$1@news.t-online.com>

Jeff Epler wrote:
> I don't know, and since the code you posted doesn't run I can't find
> out.

#it's only a subset of the code ...

class SlaveParSet(QDialog):
     def __init__(self,parent = None, name=None, modal = 0, fl = 0,
                  Conf='PROFIBUS', saddr= 0):

         if name == None:
             self.setName('SlaveParSet')

         self.config_name=conf
         self.slave_addr = saddr

         self.gsd_connect = sqlite.connect("gsd_db")
         self.gsd_curs    = self.gsd_connect.cursor()

         # open project data base
         self.prj_connect = sqlite.connect("proj_db")
         self.prj_curs    = self.prj_connect.cursor()

         self.ID = ''
         self.IMpos = 0


     # insert selected module into installed modules
     def ModuleSelectionval(self, nr):
         module = str(self.ModuleSelection.text(nr))

         #rebuild pos/module relationship
         Sel = str("""select mod_pos, mod_name, proj, saddr,
                      mod_config_data, mod_prm_data
                      from INSTMODULE where proj= %s and saddr = %s""")
         Key = (self.config_name, self.slave_addr)
         self.prj_curs.execute(Sel, Key)
         ins_list = self.prj_curs.fetchall()

#ins_list is a list and contains now one tuple

         if len(ins_list):
            self.IMpos +=1
            InsPos = self.IMpos

            Ins = str("""insert into INSTMODULE(mod_pos, mod_name, proj, 

                         saddr, mod_config_data, mod_prm_data)
                         values (%s, %s, %s, %s, %s, %s)""")

            self.IMpos =0
            for set in ins_list:
               setdata = (self.IMpos,) +  set[1:]

# set should reference a tuple but it refers to class instance .. WHY??

               self.prj_curs.execute(Ins, setdata)
               self.InstModules.insertItem(set[1], self.IMpos) 

               self.IMpos +=1
               if InsPos == self.IMpos:
                  self.InstModules.insertItem(new_item[1], self.IMpos) 

                  self.prj_curs.execute(self.Ins, new_item)
                  self.IMpos +=1
            if self.IMpos > 0:
               self.IMpos -= 1

            self.InstModules.setCurrentItem(self.IMpos)
            self.prj_connect.commit()
         else:
            self.IMpos = 0
            self.InstModules.clear()
            self.InstModules.insertItem(module, self.IMpos)
            self.InstModules.setCurrentItem(self.IMpos)



> 
> 
>>>>self.IMpos =0
> 
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
> NameError: name 'self' is not defined
> 
> Jeff
> 


From donn at u.washington.edu  Wed Apr 28 14:11:43 2004
From: donn at u.washington.edu (Donn Cave)
Date: Wed, 28 Apr 2004 11:11:43 -0700
Subject: Problem with socket
References: <408f7917$0$27016$626a14ce@news.free.fr>
Message-ID: <donn-D014AA.11114328042004@nntp3.u.washington.edu>

In article <408f7917$0$27016$626a14ce at news.free.fr>,
 Thomas Herve <therve at neocles.com> wrote:
...
> Ok I hope it's clear. My problem is that "select" only tests if there's 
> data on the socket, and not the state of the socket. I want to be able 
> to know if socket is "alive" or something like that. But I don't want 
> to make "send" in the client (stay passive). Then, if I know that my 
> socket is closed or my link down, I can try to reconnect periodically.

Try a SO_KEEPALIVE option on the socket (setsockopt).  That
should (I would sort of expect anyway) raise an exception when
the keepalive negotiation fails.  The reaction won't be immediate,
it may take hours to notice a dead connection.

   Donn Cave, donn at u.washington.edu


From peter at engcorp.com  Fri Apr 16 18:35:16 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2004 18:35:16 -0400
Subject: md5.hexdigest() converting unicode string to ascii
In-Reply-To: <77b925de.0404161337.3917ef56@posting.google.com>
References: <77b925de.0404151450.5c1f720a@posting.google.com><c5ohp8$fqf$1@absinth.dialog.net.pl>
	<mailman.687.1082117438.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<c5om3d$iu4$1@absinth.dialog.net.pl>
	<77b925de.0404161337.3917ef56@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <TuKdndvK-ec4wh3dRVn-gQ@powergate.ca>

uebertester wrote:

> None of the suggestions seem to address the issue.  sValue =
> _winreg.QueryValueEx(y,"") returns a tuple containing the following
> (u'http://', 1).  The string u'http://' is added to the md5 object via
> the update() and then hashed via hexdigest().  How do I keep the
> unicode string from being converted to ascii with the md5 functions? 
> Or can I?

You cannot.  You missed the key fact, which is that Unicode strings
are sequences of "characters" (roughly, 16-bit values), not sequences
of bytes.  MD5 is defined on byte sequences.  *You* must specify the
encoding scheme you want to use, by converting the string before
passing it to the hash function.

If you are trying to match the MD5 values calculated by some other
tool, you must find out what encoding scheme that other tool was
using (maybe by trial and error, starting with utf-8 probably).
If this is just for your own purposes, simply pick a convenient
scheme and encode consistently.

  md5.update(yourUnicode.encode('utf-8')) for example...

-Peter


From fnord at u.washington.edu  Mon Apr 19 12:38:25 2004
From: fnord at u.washington.edu (Lonnie Princehouse)
Date: 19 Apr 2004 09:38:25 -0700
Subject: Static Modules...
References: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0404171006210.27811-100000@e5-05.ee.ualberta.ca>
Message-ID: <f70e3538.0404190838.6394a852@posting.google.com>

Grzegorz Dostatni <grzegorz at ee.ualberta.ca> wrote in message news:<Pine.LNX.4.44.0404171006210.27811-100000 at e5-05.ee.ualberta.ca>...
> I had an idea yesterday. (Yes, I know. Sorry).
>
> -------- BEGIN HERE ------
> import sys, inspect
> 
> def autoload_exc(type, value, traceback):
> 	modulename = value.args[0].split()[1][1:-1]
> 	f_locals = traceback.tb_frame.f_locals
> 	f_globals = traceback.tb_frame.f_globals
> 
> 	exec "import " + modulename in f_locals, f_globals
> 	exec traceback.tb_frame.f_code in f_locals, f_globals
> 
> sys.excepthook = autoload_exc
> 
> ------- END HERE -------

Nice hack!   The earlier pundits have a point that explicit imports
are a Good Thing for most code, but for the interactive session this
will be really handy.  (...considers putting it in .pythonrc)


From fumanchu at amor.org  Tue Apr 27 02:30:21 2004
From: fumanchu at amor.org (Robert Brewer)
Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2004 23:30:21 -0700
Subject: Uploading files from a server
Message-ID: <DE1CF2B4FEC4A342BF62B6B2B334601E56206B@opus.amorhq.net>

drs wrote:
> "Edward Diener" <eldiener at earthlink.net> wrote in message
> news:m1gjc.3688$g31.2919 at newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net...
> > What is the easiest way in Python in a web server to upload 
> a client file,
> > once the file name on the client's machine has been entered, to a
> directory
> > on the server ?
> 
> I think this is what you want ... this is for mod_python with 
> the publisher
> handler. It will allow a user to upload a file and save it on 
> a server.  It
> provides no protection or checking, however.  other server 
> configurations
> will be slightly different.
> 
> first, use a form tag and input tag like
> 
> <form method=POST action="./upload_function/" 
> ENCTYPE="multipart/form-data">
> <input type="file" id="uploaded_file" name="uploaded_file">
> <input type="submit">
> </form>
> 
> The above will get the file to your server.  then use an 
> upload function
> like:
> 
> def upload_function(req, uploaded_file=None):
>     if uploaded_file:
>         fn1 = str(uploaded_file.filename).split('\\')[-1]
>         fn = fn1.split('/')[-1]
>         # the weird file splitting is because os.path on 
> Freebsd, where this
> ran,
>         # didn't deal with win32 and unix file paths for 
> uploaded files
>         d = uploaded_file.read()
>         f = open('/save/path/%s' % fn, 'w')
>         f.write(d)
>         f.close()
>         return 'uploaded'
>     else: return 'no file'

...and if you don't know beforehand if you have an uploaded file, try
something like:

from mod_python import apache, util
    
    def read(self, request):
        # Retrieve the submitted CGI parameters from Apache/mod_python.
        # ONLY CALL ONCE per request.
        newData = util.FieldStorage(request, 1).list
        self.requestParams.clear()
        if newData is not None:
            for eachParam in newData:
                name = self.unicode(eachParam.name)
                if eachParam.filename:
                    fileData = eachParam.file.read()
                    filename = self.unicode(eachParam.filename)
                    self.requestParams[name] = (filename, fileData)
                else:
                    value = self.unicode(eachParam.value)
                    self.requestParams[name] = value


Robert Brewer
MIS
Amor Ministries
fumanchu at amor.org



From mogmios at mlug.missouri.edu  Wed Apr 28 00:37:06 2004
From: mogmios at mlug.missouri.edu (Michael)
Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2004 21:37:06 -0700
Subject: Is Perl *that* good?
In-Reply-To: <roy-C34A59.13061627042004@reader2.panix.com>
References: <c6ich0$c5mee$1@ID-205437.news.uni-berlin.de>	<iL3jc.232$Yc.2330@news4.e.nsc.no>	<108q51j4dscn7dc@corp.supernews.com>	<knbjc.267$id.3998@news2.e.nsc.no>	<pan.2004.04.26.20.50.19.843510@hotmail.com>	<87fzaqmm8t.fsf@strauser.com>	<38ec68a6.0404262308.50029919@posting.google.com>	<mailman.49.1083084698.25742.python-list@python.org>
	<roy-C34A59.13061627042004@reader2.panix.com>
Message-ID: <408F34F2.8060205@mlug.missouri.edu>


>Regular expressions are like duct tape.  They may not be the best tool 
>for everything, but they usually get the job done.
>  
>
Until you are in the middle of a vital project with a limited time to 
get the job done and suddenly all your duct tape starts to twist 
together incorrectly. :)



From jbore at tjtech.com  Tue Apr 13 13:31:21 2004
From: jbore at tjtech.com (Joseph T. Bore)
Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2004 17:31:21 GMT
Subject: interpreter limits
References: <m3zn9f95xm.fsf@union.tjtech.com>
	<407c23bf$0$570$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>
Message-ID: <m3u0zn93sg.fsf@union.tjtech.com>


Irmen de Jong <irmen at -nospam-remove-this-xs4all.nl> writes:

> Interesting. I know it's not of any help but 'back then',
> most MUD engines did exactly this (at least, LP and MudOS did).
> When a user-written module ran too long, it was aborted, to
> avoid hanging the mud :)

Indeed.  In my case MOO is where I got the idea from.  moop is also a
side interest of mine where this becomes very important.

Any idea if it's possible?  should I write a PEP?

jb




From ville at spammers.com  Thu Apr 15 10:00:47 2004
From: ville at spammers.com (Ville Vainio)
Date: 15 Apr 2004 17:00:47 +0300
Subject: Difficulty Finding Python Developers
References: <65cbc3dd.0404140641.3501fde8@posting.google.com>
	<65cbc3dd.0404141018.36d9d4ce@posting.google.com>
	<ca6d23f8.0404150426.5daf0b7d@posting.google.com>
	<kKSdnSaWjO_rF-PdRVn-jg@powergate.ca>
Message-ID: <du7pta9l4s0.fsf@amadeus.cc.tut.fi>

Offering some comebacks in advance...

>>>>> "Peter" == Peter Hansen <peter at engcorp.com> writes:

    >> Mention that when you do find a
    >> Python programmer he'll probably be better than your average perl or
    >> Java programmer.

    Peter> And here I would ask, "Why do you say that?  If there are
    Peter> so few of them around, how could anyone know whether
    Peter> they're better or worse?  And wouldn't the best programmers

I guess the braindeadness of perl can be argued as an indication of
the quality of programmers - if the Perl people are unable to see how
much the language stinks, they might be lacking in other areas of
programming also.

Java OTOH is the lowest common denominator, pretty much everyone knows
it, which drags the average quality down.


    Peter> be using the most popular languages, because they would
    Peter> make more money that way?"

Of course the best programmers are often mostly using the more popular
languages because they are paid to do it (the r341 31337 use C++ ;-),
but they *know* Python and would rather use it.

-- 
Ville Vainio   http://tinyurl.com/2prnb


From wweston at att.net  Thu Apr  1 11:42:57 2004
From: wweston at att.net (wes weston)
Date: Thu, 01 Apr 2004 16:42:57 GMT
Subject: splitting one dictionary into two
In-Reply-To: <20040401153103.GC4577@jsaul.de>
References: <20040401153103.GC4577@jsaul.de>
Message-ID: <lEXac.8847$vo5.272333@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>

jsaul wrote:
> Hello all,
> 
> I have to split a dict into two dicts. Depending on their values,
> the items shall remain in the original dict or be moved to another
> one and at the same time be removed from the original dict.
> 
> OK, this is how I do it right now:
> 
>     dict1 = { "a":1, "b":3, "c":5, "d":4, "e":2 }
>     dict2 = {}
>     klist = []
> 
>     for key in dict1:
>         if dict1[key] > 3: # some criterion
>             dict2[key] = dict1[key]
>             klist.append(key)
> 
>     for key in klist:
>         del dict1[key]
> 
>     print dict1
>     print dict2
> 
> That means that I store the keys of the items to be removed from
> the original dict in a list (klist) and subsequently remove the
> items using these keys.
> 
> Is there an "even more pythonic" way?
> 
> Cheers, jsaul

jsaul,
    I'll have a hack with small code. Nice that you can
iterate while removing.
wes


dict1 = { "a":1, "b":3, "c":5, "d":4, "e":2 }
dict2 = {}

print dict1

for key,val in dict1.items():
     if val > 3: # some criterion
         dict2[key] = val
         del dict1[key]

print dict1
print dict2



From ae  Mon Apr 12 19:16:39 2004
From: ae (A Evans)
Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2004 16:16:39 -0700
Subject: Random Numbers and a thought
References: <107m6f0t4i0gnff@corp.supernews.com>
	<ctednRIVbfzSgObdRVn-gQ@powergate.ca>
Message-ID: <107m8qvphrjd303@corp.supernews.com>


> What "pattern" are you talking about?

Well from what I understand about my last post numbers computers generate
aren't truly random

Quote from the link you gave me

Computers are deterministic. They cannot create a truly random sequence in
which we cannot predict  even if we know all preceding elements - it may be
a bit of work for us to actually sit down and do the figuring, but it is
always possible.

I would like to take a random number generated by a computer application
then use my application to try and determine the pattern in that application

Quote me if its impossible

Basically I would like to create an application that takes a series of
random numbers generated by a computer and searches for the pattern inside
those numbers

Sorry if I sound like I am repeating myself but I am just trying to explain
myself to the best of my ability

I guess if the numbers were between say 1 and 1000 it would take 1000 inputs
to understand the pattern if not more I would like to solve it before that

Cheers


begin 666 img8.gif
M1TE&.#EA$@`.`( ``````+^_OR'Y! $```$`+ `````2``X```(C#& 7R\VJ
?G$-(VG=O?*?WM7$)"%9-A9I2A!H:E6;R3-?V;14`.P``
`
end



From thorsten at thorstenkampe.de  Thu Apr 29 08:30:14 2004
From: thorsten at thorstenkampe.de (Thorsten Kampe)
Date: Thu, 29 Apr 2004 14:30:14 +0200
Subject: suggestions for using tuples instead of list (or vice versa)
Message-ID: <ylxi7lokk9ms$.dlg@thorstenkampe.de>

I found out that I am rarely using tuples and almost always lists
because of the more flexible usability of lists (methods, etc.)

To my knowledge, the only fundamental difference between tuples and
lists is that tuples are immutable, so if this is correct, than list
are a superset of tuples, meaning lists can do everything tuples can
do and more.

Is there any advantage for using tuples? Are they "faster"? Consume
less memory? When is it better to use tuples instead of lists and when
better to use lists instead of tuples?

Thorsten


From peter at engcorp.com  Mon Apr  5 21:57:57 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Mon, 05 Apr 2004 21:57:57 -0400
Subject: Does Python compete with Java?
In-Reply-To: <roy-094613.21022405042004@reader1.panix.com>
References: <8b336527.0404051337.51bb4a1b@posting.google.com>
	<1073su4etm95p35@news.supernews.com>
	<roy-094613.21022405042004@reader1.panix.com>
Message-ID: <msKdnRYsav07k-_dRVn-jw@powergate.ca>

Roy Smith wrote:

> They don't have one for Python, but I expect it would be something like 
> this:
> 
> You create a Foot object and call its shoot() method.  The bullet makes 
> a hole in your foot, but by that time you've gotten dragged into a huge 
> flamewar about the relative merits of spaces vs. tabs for indentation 
> and barely notice the pain.

See Laura's excellent

http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=slrna0f23p.511.QnickQm%40h00104b6bfa23.ne.mediaone.net

and also a whole thread from late 2001

http://groups.google.ca/groups?threadm=fPBN7.961%24zX1.1625310%40typhoon.ne.mediaone.net

-Peter


From op73418 at mail.telepac.pt  Fri Apr  2 08:13:16 2004
From: op73418 at mail.telepac.pt (Gonçalo Rodrigues)
Date: Fri, 02 Apr 2004 14:13:16 +0100
Subject: Stackless Website down, Project gone, I'm dead.
References: <mailman.253.1080872984.20120.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <4bpq609588953o4b1rno8339djt3u0fqpi@4ax.com>

On Fri, 02 Apr 2004 04:30:08 +0200, in comp.lang.python you wrote:

>Dear Former Stackless Users,
>

[rest of text snipped]

I think this deserves a proper eulogy. Here is Wallace Stevens in
"Cort?ge for Rosenbloom" with Rosenbloom replaced by Tismer (rhyme and
metric is messed up but hey, what the heck, the guy deserves it even
though by his own admission he sucks as a sys admin):

Now, the wry Tismer is dead
And his finical carriers tread,
On a hundred legs, the tread
Of the dead.
Tismer is dead.

They carry the wizened one
Of the color of horn
To the sullen hill,
Treading a tread
In unison for the dead.

Tismer is dead.
The tread of the carriers does not halt
On the hill, but turns
Up the sky.
They are bearing his body into the sky.

It is the infants of misanthropes
And the infants of nothingness
That tread
The wooden ascents
Of the ascending of the dead.

It is turbans they wear
And boots of fur
As they tread the boards
In a region of frost,
Viewing the frost.

To a chirr of gongs
And a chitter of cries
And the heavy thrum
Of the endless tread
That they tread.

To a jangle of doom
And a jumble of words
Of the intense poem
Of the strictest prose
Of Tismer.

And they bury him there,
Body and soul,
In a place in the sky.
The lamentable tread!
Tismer is dead.


My dear Tismer, I only wish that your little grave in the sky that is
going to be your eternal home is cozy and comfy.

Adieu,
G. Rodrigues


From tdelaney at avaya.com  Thu Apr 29 20:21:45 2004
From: tdelaney at avaya.com (Delaney, Timothy C (Timothy))
Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2004 10:21:45 +1000
Subject: What is good about Prothon?
Message-ID: <338366A6D2E2CA4C9DAEAE652E12A1DE016BCCF8@au3010avexu1.global.avaya.com>

has wrote:

> Whereas Prothon does this:
> 
> # Create object 'a'
> a = Object()
> a.x = 1
> 
> # Create objects 'b' and 'c'
> b = a()
> c = a()
> 
> print a.x, b.x, c.x # --> 1 1 1
> 
> b.x = 4
> print a.x, b.x, c.x # --> 1 4 1
> 
> a.x = 9
> print a.x, b.x, c.x # --> 9 4 9

Urgh. I haven't been following closely, but this is exactly counter to
what I would expect of a prototype-based language.

The whole point of ptototypes IMO is to provide a *snapshot* as the base
configuration of an object. So every attibute and method should be
copied to the new object, and there is then no further connection
between the prototype and the new object.

Tim Delaney



From sdahlbacSPAMSUX at abo.fi  Tue Apr 27 17:08:04 2004
From: sdahlbacSPAMSUX at abo.fi (Simon Dahlbacka)
Date: Wed, 28 Apr 2004 00:08:04 +0300
Subject: Passing through keywork arguments
References: <mailman.62.1083098978.25742.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <408ecbc4$1@newsflash.abo.fi>


<jwsacksteder at ramprecision.com> wrote in message
news:mailman.62.1083098978.25742.python-list at python.org...
> If I have a class method that accepts keywork arguments, how may I pass
> those arguments into a method call of some other class? This is some
> namespace thing I'm not understanding and I can't seem to find any
examples.

def function_accepting_kwargs(**kw):
    # optionally check/mangle kw here (it is a dictionary)
    otherfunction(**kw)

/Simon




From sdementen at hotmail.com  Wed Apr 28 06:17:48 2004
From: sdementen at hotmail.com (Sebastien de Menten)
Date: 28 Apr 2004 03:17:48 -0700
Subject: Generic constructors and duplication of internal Python logic
References: <87ekqq41ya.fsf@pobox.com>
Message-ID: <8dad5312.0404280217.21c2cfd1@posting.google.com>

Here is a metaclass for uber-lazy user :-)

Concretely, at the creation of the class it takes the source of the
__init__ function and add, at the first line of __init__, the line
that sets the attributes :
>         self.foo, self.bar, self.baz, self.optional1, self.optional2 = 
>                    foo, bar, baz, optional1, optional2


Nothing is done for *args or **kwargs but they could also be assigned
to some attributes of the class (like self.args and self.kwargs ?).
Moreover, for really lazy users, the line for calling the __init__ of
the father of the class (if necessary)
>         super(Father, self).__init__()
could also be dynamically added



#----------------------------------------------------
import inspect,re

class autoArgInit(type):
    """
    Replace any occurence of xxx in the class by a col version and a
row version and yyy by its complementary row/col
    """
    def __new__(cls,classname,bases,classdict):
        # get the __init__ function
        function_object = classdict["__init__"]
        
        # get the source of the function
        function_source = inspect.getsource(function_object)

        # detect indentation of the function definition and remove it
such that def __init__ is at beginning of line
        indentation_level = re.match("( *)def
(.*)\(",function_source).groups()[0]
        function_source =
re.sub("^"+indentation_level,"",function_source)
        function_source =
re.sub("\n"+indentation_level,"\n",function_source)

        # split the lines to add new lines easely
        function_lines = function_source.split("\n")

        # detect indentation inside the function
        indentation =
re.match("(\s*)\S*",function_lines[1]).groups()[0]

        # take argument list without self
        args = inspect.getargspec(function_object)[0][1:]

        # create the line for assignment
        assign_code = indentation + ", ".join(map(lambda s:
"self.%s"%(s),args)) + " = " + ", ".join(args)

        # insert it in the code
        function_lines.insert(1,assign_code)
        
        # join the code again
        new_function_source = "\n".join(function_lines)

        # evaluate it and replace the __init__ definition in classdict
        exec new_function_source in function_object.func_globals,
classdict

        return type.__new__(cls,classname,bases,classdict)

class test(object):
    __metaclass__ = autoArgInit
    def __init__(self, baz, top, foo=3, r = 5, *args, **kwargs):
        assert self.baz == baz
        assert self.top == top
        assert self.foo == foo
        assert self.r == r
        
test(3,4,6)
#----------------------------------------------------


Seb






jjl at pobox.com (John J. Lee) wrote in message news:<87ekqq41ya.fsf at pobox.com>...
> This is one of those things that I can't quite believe I've never
> needed to do before.
> 
> I've got a set classes, each of which has a set of attributes that all
> behave very similarly.  So, I have a class attribute (Blah.attr_spec
> below), which is used by a mixin class to implement various methods
> that would otherwise be highly repetitious across these classes.  I'd
> like to do the same for the constructor, to avoid this kind of
> nonsense:
> 
> class Blah(NamesMixin):
>     attr_spec = ["foo", "bar", "baz",
>                  ("optional1", None), ("optional2", None)]
>     def __init__(self, foo, bar, baz,
>                  optional1=None, optional2=None):
>         self.foo, self.bar, self.baz = \
>                    foo, bar, baz
>         self.optional1, self.optional2 = \
>                         optional1, optional2
> 
> So, I wrote a mixin class whose __init__ looks at the attr_spec
> attribute, and uses args and kwds (below) to assign attributes in the
> same sort of way as the special-case code above:
> 
> class ArgsMixin:
>     def __init__(self, *args, **kwds):
>         # set attributes based on arguments passed in, as done
>         # manually in Blah.__init__, above
>         ... lots of logic already present in Python goes here...
> 
> That immediately leads to duplication of Python's internal logic: I
> have to check things like:
> 
>  -are there too many positional arguments?
>  -any unexpected keyword arguments?
>  -multiple keyword arguments?
>  -any duplication between positional and keyword arguments?
> 
> etc.
> 
> Surely there's some easy way of making use of Python's internal logic
> here?  For some reason, I can't see how.  Can anybody see a way?
> 
> 
> John


From No.Spam.mc at No.Spam.mclaveau.No.Spam.com  Thu Apr 29 14:29:35 2004
From: No.Spam.mc at No.Spam.mclaveau.No.Spam.com (Michel Claveau/Hamster)
Date: Thu, 29 Apr 2004 20:29:35 +0200
Subject: PyLinda 0.1
References: <c6rcd0$3hv$2@pump1.york.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <c6rhir$hun$1@news-reader4.wanadoo.fr>

Bonjour !

Pour des besoins propres, j'ai fait un logiciel qui ressemble ? PyLinda. Je
l'ai appel? TPS (T?l?-Persistance-Server).
Le principe de focntionnement est assez ressemblant. Par contre j'ai mis
d'autres "connecteurs" : e-mail ; COM (Ole, sous windows) ;
t?ches_planifi?es.
J'ai ?galement ajout? la possibilit? "d'ex?cuter un message" (en fait le
message est alors un script).

Je me sers beaucoup de TPS, que j'installe syst?matiquement chez tous mes
clients. C'est tr?s pratique pour ?changer des informations entre
applications/postes/r?seaux.

L'id?e est bonne, alors...  continuez !

@-salutations
-- 
Michel Claveau
m?l : http://cerbermail.com/?6J1TthIa8B
site : http://mclaveau.com











From davidjtaylor at optushome.com.au  Tue Apr  6 23:48:55 2004
From: davidjtaylor at optushome.com.au (sydneyguru)
Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2004 13:48:55 +1000
Subject: Cookies
Message-ID: <40737a05$0$20085$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au>

Trying to write a python script that does the same thing my browser does
when posting a form.(cgi)

All works except for this.  My browser has a cookie which it also sends, and
the server insists on getting.

So how can I replicate this under python? I've looked at cookie module but
can't see how to use it to achieve this.  Please help.








From deetsNOSPAM at web.de  Mon Apr 12 11:39:18 2004
From: deetsNOSPAM at web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2004 17:39:18 +0200
Subject: How to kill a SocketServer?
References: <c5e6k3$jf4$1@newshispeed.ch>
Message-ID: <c5ed3b$drg$06$1@news.t-online.com>

> The problem is, that I found no way to interrupt the blocking call to
> self.rfile.readline(). Is there a way to do that?

>From the SocketServerDocs:

---------------
serve_forever()

 Handle an infinite number of requests. This simply calls handle_request()
inside an infinite loop. 

---------------

So simply call handle_request yourself, like this:

while self.run_me:
  s.server_forever()


run_me is a variable that can be set to false in stop_server

-- 
Regards,

Diez B. Roggisch


From mwilson at the-wire.com  Sun Apr  4 23:24:16 2004
From: mwilson at the-wire.com (Mel Wilson)
Date: Sun, 04 Apr 2004 23:24:16 -0400
Subject: How to assign a default constant value in a function declaration
References: <mailman.341.1081121191.20120.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <gFNcAls/KHvU089yn@the-wire.com>

In article <mailman.341.1081121191.20120.python-list at python.org>,
"Vineet Jain" <vineet at eswap.com> wrote:
>The following does not work although it seems like something you should be
>able to do.
>
>def someFunction(option=Constants.DEFAULT_VALUE):

   Certainly seems like it.  What's it doing to make you say
it's not working?

        Regards.        Mel.


From smallbee at rediffmail.com  Thu Apr  1 06:35:56 2004
From: smallbee at rediffmail.com (Somesh Bartakkay)
Date: 1 Apr 2004 03:35:56 -0800
Subject: Reliability of venster+ctypes on win32
Message-ID: <8f198e47.0404010335.6045400e@posting.google.com>

I downloaded and tried a small dialog-dll's application with
venster+ctypes+python 2.3
its working very well, but is it reliable to use in big projects ? or
part of big projects ? wot are limitations in use ?

wot are advantages/disadvantages of this combination over win32all
package of Mark Hammond ? plz guide me before i starting using it ../

thanX in +vance !

somesh


From FBatista at uniFON.com.ar  Tue Apr 13 12:19:04 2004
From: FBatista at uniFON.com.ar (Batista, Facundo)
Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2004 13:19:04 -0300
Subject: Decimal data type issues
Message-ID: <A128D751272CD411BC9200508BC2194D03383865@escpl.tcp.com.ar>

People:

Tim Peters reviewed the PEP 327, and asked some questions.  Trying to
answer those questions, I found that some items needs to be addressed with
a comunity consensus.

So, the next items are to be included in the PEP when the discussion
finishes:


Exponent Maximum
----------------

The Decimal number composes of three elements: A sign that can be 0 or 1, a
tuple of digits where each can be 0..9, and an exponent. 

The exponent is an integer, and in the actual implementation exists a
maximum
value::

DEFAULT_MAX_EXPONENT = 999999999
DEFAULT_MIN_EXPONENT = -999999999
ABSOLUTE_MAX_EXP = 999999999
ABSOLUTE_MIN_EXP = -999999999

The issue is that this limit is artificial: As long it's a long, you should
be able to make it as big as your memory let you.

In the General Decimal Arithmetic Specification says:

  In the abstract, there is no upper limit on the absolute value of the
  exponent.  In practice there may be some upper limit, E_limit , on the
  absolute value of the exponent.
  
So, should we impose an artificial limit to the exponent?

This is important, as there're several cases where this maximums are checked
and exceptions raised and/or the numbers get changed.


New operations
--------------

Tim Peters found I missed three operations required by the standard.  Those
are:

a. ``to-scientific-string``: This operation converts a number to a string,
   using scientific notation if an exponent is needed. The operation is not
   affected by the context.

b. ``to-engineering-string``: This operation converts a number to a string,
   using engineering notation if an exponent is needed.

c. ``to-number``: This operation converts a string to a number, as defined
   by its abstract representation.

First we should agree the names of the methods, I propose:

a. to_sci_string
b. to_eng_string
c. from_string

The (a) and (b) methods are different from str, as this method just doesn't
adjust the exponent at all.

Regarding the method (c), the only difference with creating the decimal with
Decimal(string) is that method (c) honors the context (if the literal
contains more digits that the current precision the numbers get rounded, and
gets rounded according to the round method specified in context, etc). For
example, with a precision of 9 and with the name I proposed::

>>> Decimal('112233445566')
Decimal( (0, (1, 1, 2, 2, 3, 3, 4, 4, 5, 5, 6, 6), 0) )
>>> Decimal.from_string('112233445566')
Decimal( (0, (1, 1, 2, 2, 3, 3, 4, 4, 6), 3L) )


Hash behaviour
--------------

This item actually wasn't raised by Tim, but I found it when implementing
the module.

In the PEP I wrote that Decimal must be hashable. But what hash should it
give?

Should the following be true?::

  hash(Decimal(25) == hash(25)
  hash(Decimal.from_float(25.35) == hash(25.35)
  hash(Decimal('-33.8')) == hash(-33.8)

I don't think so. I think that hash(Decimal(...)) just should return a
different value in each case, but no the same value that other data types.


Thank you all for your feedback.

.	Facundo





. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
ADVERTENCIA  

La informaci?n contenida en este mensaje y cualquier archivo anexo al mismo,
son para uso exclusivo del destinatario y pueden contener informaci?n
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Si Ud. No es uno de los destinatarios consignados o la persona responsable
de hacer llegar este mensaje a los destinatarios consignados, no est?
autorizado a divulgar, copiar, distribuir o retener informaci?n (o parte de
ella) contenida en este mensaje. Por favor notif?quenos respondiendo al
remitente, borre el mensaje original y borre las copias (impresas o grabadas
en cualquier medio magn?tico) que pueda haber realizado del mismo. 

Todas las opiniones contenidas en este mail son propias del autor del
mensaje y no necesariamente coinciden con las de Telef?nica Comunicaciones
Personales S.A. o alguna empresa asociada. 

Los mensajes electr?nicos pueden ser alterados, motivo por el cual
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cualquiera sea el resultante de este mensaje. 

Muchas Gracias.
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From balaji at email.arizona.edu  Sat Apr 24 17:22:14 2004
From: balaji at email.arizona.edu (Balaji)
Date: 24 Apr 2004 14:22:14 -0700
Subject: Please Help with references
Message-ID: <494182a9.0404241322.8f3ec0a@posting.google.com>

import __main__

tempbuffer= None

permbuffer={}

class E:
 def __init__(self):
#  print id(self)
  self.hasVar = False
  
        
 def doOperation(self,op,rightOperand):
  e = E()
  if self.__class__ == E:
   e.hasVar = self.hasVar
  elif self.__class__ == V or rightOperand.__class__ == V or \
   (rightOperand.__class__ == E and rightOperand.hasVar == True):
   e.hasVar = True
  e.operator = op
  e.left = self
  e.right = rightOperand
  global tempbuffer
  global permbuffer
  print "bll"
  f = copy.copy(e)
  print f
  r =findNonTempBufferRef(tempbuffer)
  print r
  if r != 'tempbuffer':
   print "hello"
   permbuffer[r] =tempbuffer
  tempbuffer = f
  return e
  

 def relationalOperators(self,op,rightOperand):
  print self,rightOperand
  e=E()
  e.operator =op
  e.left=self
  e.right=rightOperand
  return e
  
 def __neg__(self):
  return self    
 
 def __radd__(self,e2):
  return self.doOperation('+',e2)
 
 def __add__(self,e2):
  return self.doOperation('+',e2) 

class V(E):
 """ This is a variable for MPY"""
 def __init__(self):
  print "V",
  E.__init__(self)
  self.hasVar = True
  self.val = None
    
 def __str__(self):
  if self.val:
#   print "self.val *****"
   return str(self.val)
  else:
   return findRefTo(self) or "MPY Error! Printing unnamed variable."



def findRefTo(obj):
 import expression # Needed to get access to main.
 vnames = vars(__main__)
 for name in vnames.keys():
  if vnames[name] == obj:
   return name
 return None

def findNonTempBufferRef(obj):
 import expression # Needed to get access to main.
 vnames = vars(__main__)
 print vnames
 for name in vnames.keys():
  if  vnames[name] == obj:
   return name
 return None





**************************************************

This my code...

On interpretor if i

create x=V() and y=V() creates two instances of class variable which
inherits from expression class E.

now if i say

x+y

and then c=x+y

and ce=x+y

i think i loose the original one...

i want to store  in a permbuffer all asignments made..

after assigning c and ce i want a copy of both in a permbuffer..

Iam at my witends .. Please help...

Balaji


From noemail at noemail4u.com  Tue Apr 20 08:04:30 2004
From: noemail at noemail4u.com (Daniel 'Dang' Griffith)
Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 12:04:30 GMT
Subject: Proposed PEP: Treating Builtins as Constants in the Standard
References: <5d83790c.0404171557.3db69f48@posting.google.com>
	<c600af$22s$3@arcturus.ciril.fr>
	<Eb-dnXlhDMUJXB7dRVn-iQ@powergate.ca>
Message-ID: <097808fe24c7cc9771e446d5bddfe91d@news.teranews.com>

On Mon, 19 Apr 2004 08:09:56 -0400, Peter Hansen <peter at engcorp.com>
wrote:

[snip]
...
>automated testing.  The most easily demonstrated one is where
>the builtin open/file calls are replaced with a simulated ("mock")
>file system which applies to *all* modules, not just a single
>module under test.  This functionality is critical to some people
>using Python with the Test-Driven Development approach to software.

Isn't this the use case for AOP you were looking for?
    --dang


From theller at python.net  Thu Apr 15 16:10:18 2004
From: theller at python.net (Thomas Heller)
Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2004 22:10:18 +0200
Subject: Wrapper round x86 Assembler
References: <8089854e.0404082353.7bf163a2@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <brltc89h.fsf@python.net>

michael at foord.net (Fuzzyman) writes:

> There might be a really good reason why this hasn't been done *or*
> someone might have done it and I just can't find it..... *but*
>
> what about a wrapper to an assembler (presumably for x86 assembly !)
> !!
> I just wrote some code doing binary operations which would have been
> about a zillion times faster in a few lines of assembly code.
>
> I also have fond memories of programming in BBC Basic which had an
> inline assembler - so you could wrap your assembly program in Basic.
> It meant some commercial games started with Basic !
>
> Anyway - it would be easy to reserve some memory with a string like
> object to pass to an 'assembly object' and allow some really nifty
> (and fast) stuff ?? For simple algorithms it would be very neat.
> Avoiding memory overflow etc would be up to the assembly code 'chunk'
> of course.


The following has been reposted by Bradley Schatz to the ctypes mailing
list, it may indeed contain what you want, and it *is* very
interesting.  The original post was to the bugtraq mailing list (or so):

from oliver.lavery at sympatico.ca

Today marks another solar cycle I've spent on this planet. To celebrate I'd
like to share one of my toys with all of you.

Adder is a tool I wrote for myself, so that I could experiment with runtime
modification of binary applications. I've found it really useful for
prototyping run-time patches, understanding the effects and possibilities of
call-hooking and other run-time program tweaks; that sort of thing. I hope
you might find it useful too...


Binary:
http://www.rootkit.com/vault/x3nophi1e/adder-0.3.3-win32.zip
( NT 4 / 2000 / XP / 2003 )

Source:
http://www.rootkit.com/vault/x3nophi1e/adder-0.3.3-src.zip

Documentation:
http://www.rootkit.com/vault/x3nophi1e/adder-manual.zip
( please read the installation instructions in here. )


The way it works is fairly simple. Adder allows you to inject a python
interpreter into any win32 process. That interpreter then runs a script
within the context of your target process which is able to instrument and
modify the target in any way it sees fit. Included are a extensions to the
python language that provide:

- safe pointer support
- execution path hooking in python and C++. Hooks can be installed at
something close to instruction granularity.
- x86 instruction manipulation. (based on z0mbie's ADE32 engine)
- programmable x86 instruction disassembler. (a win32 port of libdisasm from
The Bastard)
- x86 assembler. (Dave Aitel's Mosdef 1.1)

These features make it easy to play with the deep majik of really low-level
code hacking in an efficient, sophisticated, high-level language. So adder
is a sort of meta-tool which you might use to script things like:

- dynamic analysis. Hook every function in jscript.dll and graph which ones
execute when a HTML page's script runs.
- API interception. Should IE really be allowed to open an .exe straight of
the web?
- run-time patching. Get rid of those pesky bugs.
- binary forensics. Packers aren't so hard to crack when they run.

Performance and stability are pretty good at this point. Since it's a tool I
wrote for my own use, there are lots of rough edges that need to be cleaned
up. I've been waiting to find the time to fix these for ages and never seem
to. So you'll excuse the occasional glitch. Please tell me if you find
something really horrid.

Hope you all find this interesting, and maybe even useful.

~x

----------




From vincent at visualtrans.de  Thu Apr 15 04:21:57 2004
From: vincent at visualtrans.de (vincent wehren)
Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2004 10:21:57 +0200
Subject: charset conversion routine?
In-Reply-To: <mailman.637.1081999328.20120.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.637.1081999328.20120.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <c5lgn4$jag$1@news2.tilbu1.nb.home.nl>

Joe Wong wrote:
> Hi, I am trying to use python to convert UTF8->BIG5 and GB->BIG5 charset. Is it possible and how to do it? From the manual I read something about unicode and locale, but I couldn't get a clear direction on how to make it work.
> 
> Thanks in advance,
> 
> -- Wong
> 
You'll need the cjk-codecs package. You can find it via 
http://cjkpython.i18n.org/

Regards,

-- Vincent Wehren







From newsgroups at jhrothjr.com  Sat Apr  3 09:10:29 2004
From: newsgroups at jhrothjr.com (John Roth)
Date: Sat, 3 Apr 2004 09:10:29 -0500
Subject: Parrot for Python
References: <930ba99a.0404030251.c2d2107@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <106theugbjm8l30@news.supernews.com>


"Sridhar R" <sridharinfinity at yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:930ba99a.0404030251.c2d2107 at posting.google.com...
> Hi,
>
> I come across the Parrot project.  Seems like it is a better
> compromising alternative for .NET and Java.  That is, we can develop
> applications in Python (for productivity) and still can interact with
> components written in other languages, as they were compiled to the
> parrot byte code.
>
> But my concern is, how will Python interoperate with Parrot.  Since,
> Python has strong interospection, won't it be difficult to generate
> parrot code from python source file.

I believe there were some people working on a Python
port to Parrot a while ago, but they lost interest when
the then current Parrot implementation was insufficient
to handle what they wanted to do.

It's all a volunteer effort; it'll get done if enough
people want to get together to get it done.

John Roth




From CousinStanley at hotmail.com  Thu Apr  8 00:53:29 2004
From: CousinStanley at hotmail.com (Cousin Stanley)
Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2004 21:53:29 -0700
Subject: pyAlbum.py - Python Album Generator
References: <mailman.405.1081319676.20120.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <c52lql$2ng6aj$1@ID-130333.news.uni-berlin.de>

Premshree ....

  Thanks for making your  pyAlbum.py  program available ....

A glimpse of what the Arizona desert east of Phoenix 
toward  Globe  on  highway  US 60  looked like 
last Sunday  April 04, 2004 ....

    http://fastq.com/~sckitching/Album_01 

    Photography by .... John C. Schluterbusch

The slide show was generated using 
a locally edited version of your Python program
pyAlbum  .... 

    http://premshree.resource-locator.com/python/pyAlbum.py 

It took about  100 Seconds  on  this machine 
to generate the SlideShow for 31 images, 
which includes ....  

    Generating ThumbNails  
    Re-Sizing Images
    Writing a CSS Style Sheet 
    Writing the Index HTML Page 
    Generating the Individual HTML Pages

 This machine .... 

      Compaq ...... 250 MHz
      Memory ...... 192 MB
      System ...... Win98_SE
      Python ...... 2.3 Enthought Edition
      PIL ......... 1.1.4

  So, for a  S L O W  machine,
  100 Seconds  ain't too bad ....

  The edited version that I used ....
 
      http://fastq.com/~sckitching/Python/pyAlbum.py

      o Re-coded some of the  l o n g  string concatenations
        and ''' Triple Quoted String  ''' % ( w , x , y , z ... ) substitutions
        into  join( list_xxx )  function calls 
        which seemed a bit more readble/editable 

      o Added a prompt and code for Including/Excluding  links
        to Full-Size images

      o All other changes are basically coding style cosmetics .... 


  Thanks again for a useful Python program ....

-- 
Cousin Stanley
Human Being
Phoenix, Arizona



From elainejackson7355 at home.com  Thu Apr  8 01:05:43 2004
From: elainejackson7355 at home.com (Elaine Jackson)
Date: Thu, 08 Apr 2004 05:05:43 GMT
Subject: list comprehensions
References: <yjZcc.42823$Pk3.9547@pd7tw1no>
	<ku0dc.74742$o_.33729@fe1.texas.rr.com>
Message-ID: <H45dc.48904$Ig.6770@pd7tw2no>

I still need to digest it, but yes, I think it will help. Thanks.

"Paul McGuire" <ptmcg at austin.rr._bogus_.com> wrote in message
news:ku0dc.74742$o_.33729 at fe1.texas.rr.com...
| "Elaine Jackson" <elainejackson7355 at home.com> wrote in message
| news:yjZcc.42823$Pk3.9547 at pd7tw1no...
| >
| > List comprehensions don't work the way you intuitively expect them to
| work. I
| > realize many people have no intuitions about how list comprehensions
| 'should'
| > work, so if you recognize yourself in this description, feel free to go
| back to
| > whatever you were doing before. If you're still here, though, I invite you
| to
| > consider the following definition:
| >
| > partitions = lambda n: [[n]]+[[k]+x for x in partitions(n-k) for k in
| > range(1,n)]
| >
| > As defined above, the function raises an exception when you call it ('k'
| > referenced before assignment). For the sake of clarity, here is workable
| code
| > expressing the same intention:
| >
| > def partitions(n):
| >     reVal=[[n]]
| >     for k in range(1,n):
| >         for x in partitions(n-k):
| >             reVal.append([k]+x)
| >     return reVal
| >
| > So I guess what I want to ask is: Can somebody explain the semantics of
| list
| > comprehensions to me? Or even better: Can somebody tell me where to look
| in the
| > documentation to find out about list comprehensions? All donations
| gratefully
| > received.
| >
| > Peace
| >
| >
| Elaine -
|
| I suspect you wrote your listcomp by thinking this is an inversion of the
| nested for loops.  That is, if you think of some arbitrary nesting of loops
| as:
|
|     for i in firstRange:
|         for j in secondRange:
|             for k in thirdRange:
|                 ...<as many more fors as you like>...
|                     <build up list using i,j,k,...>
|
| then you looked at the list comp as working its way inside out, since it
| starts with the <build up list> part.
|
| But as the other posters have already stated, even though the listcomp
| starts with the most deeply nested body, the remaining 'for... for ...
| for... ' clauses match the nested loops, as if you had just removed the
| colons and copied them all onto one line.  So the listcomp ends up looking
| like:
|
|      [<build up list using i,j,k,...> for i in firstRange for j in
| secondRange for k in thirdRange...]
|
| If you want some kind of model for how to conceptualize this, then  I'd say
| that a listcomp starts with its most important part being the actual list
| element assembly/definition, followed by the iteration specifiers in
| successive outer-to-inner order, that will get the loop variables to the
| necessary values to satisfy the list assembly code.
|
| You also asked for doc references.  The Python Tutorial includes an obscure
| example (you have do a bit of in-your-head multiplication to get it), but
| try these other articles describing listcomps when they were a new feature:
| http://www-106.ibm.com/developerworks/linux/library/l-py20.html
| http://python.org/2.0/new-python.html#SECTION000600000000000000000
| Perhaps the tutorial could lift some of the examples from these other pages,
| as I'm sure people don't necessarily go back to the "What's New" pages for
| version x-2, x-3, etc.
|
| HTH,
| -- Paul
|
|
|
|




From python at holdenweb.com  Tue Apr 13 10:11:04 2004
From: python at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2004 10:11:04 -0400
Subject: Random Numbers and a thought
In-Reply-To: <407BDF9C.1050908@engcorp.com>
References: <107m6f0t4i0gnff@corp.supernews.com>
	<ctednRIVbfzSgObdRVn-gQ@powergate.ca>
	<107m8qvphrjd303@corp.supernews.com>
	<y5Kec.22002$Lu4.12475@newssvr27.news.prodigy.com>
	<407BDF9C.1050908@engcorp.com>
Message-ID: <sESec.629$2e6.391@lakeread01>

Peter Hansen wrote:

> Moosebumps wrote:
> 
>> Yeah, this is not really a python question at all... go ask on 
>> sci.math or
>> comp.programming and have people discourage and flame you there.  : )
> 
> 
> Was anyone flaming anyone here?

Of course not, you idiot :-)

couldn't-resist-ly y'rs  - steve



From cliechti at gmx.net  Fri Apr 16 19:43:46 2004
From: cliechti at gmx.net (Chris Liechti)
Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2004 23:43:46 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Wrapper round x86 Assembler
References: <8089854e.0404082353.7bf163a2@posting.google.com>
	<4dKdnQlIXMIXIevdRVn-gg@powergate.ca>
	<8089854e.0404100204.504186a0@posting.google.com>
	<kcWdnaFpw_PvdurdRVn-sA@powergate.ca>
	<8089854e.0404122329.5dfe5ce1@posting.google.com>
	<R9-dnUYH8r32f-bd4p2dnA@powergate.ca>
	<8089854e.0404132323.3283390@posting.google.com>
	<C72dnV4KRqbJreDdRVn-jA@powergate.ca>
	<8089854e.0404141105.37d09320@posting.google.com>
	<c5nn0n$312cv$1@ID-169208.news.uni-berlin.de>
	<8089854e.0404160530.5b7c23aa@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <Xns94CE1197CFB59cliechtigmxnet@62.2.16.4>

michael at foord.net (Fuzzyman) wrote in
news:8089854e.0404160530.5b7c23aa at posting.google.com: 

> Greg Ewing <greg at cosc.canterbury.ac.nz> wrote in message
> news:<c5nn0n$312cv$1 at ID-169208.news.uni-berlin.de>... 
>> Fuzzyman wrote:
>> > The only compielr I have is gcc under mingw - and I'm not at all
>> > sure it's set up right. Does pyrex still need a C-compiler or *is*
>> > pyrex a compiler ?
>> 
>> It needs a C compiler. MinGW should be fine
>> (once you get it set up properly, anyway:-).
> 
> Yeah - I'm having great fun getting it set up.
> MinGW seems easy enough to install - I've even compiled example C
> programs with gcc - but getting disutils to use it is another
> matter...

add the bin dir of mingw to the PATH variable, do the pexports stuff to 
create an import lib and then use e.g.
python setup.py build --compiler=mingw32

see here for the pexports part:
http://docs.python.org/inst/tweak-flags.html#SECTION000620000000000000000

chris

-- 
Chris <cliechti at gmx.net>



From tim.one at comcast.net  Wed Apr  7 01:07:56 2004
From: tim.one at comcast.net (Tim Peters)
Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2004 01:07:56 -0400
Subject: Type checking inside a C extension... doesn't throw exception
	on failure
In-Reply-To: <c4vto8$2n51qf$1@ID-180326.news.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCEEECKBAB.tim.one@comcast.net>

[Andrew MacIntyre]
>> First rule of using the Python C API: _always_ check the return
>> value of API functions.

[Jon Perez]
> This only applies to API functions which return PyObject*, right?

No, it applies to all API functions that return a value (not all do).

> ...because it is not hard to find instances in the source code for
> the modules that come with Python where, for example,
> PyTuple_SetItem()'s return value is not checked for.

Strictly speaking, those are bugs in the core, and are mostly in very old
modules.  When new code is written in the core that wants to skip the error
checks done by PyTuple_SetItem, because it "knows" nothing can go wrong, it
uses the macro PyTuple_SET_ITEM instead.  All non-checking uses of
PyTuple_SetItem() should be reviewed for correctness, and replaced with
PyTuple_SET_ITEM() invocations instead whenever they are in fact provably
correct (or changed to check the return value when they're not provably
correct).

Even API functions that return ints or doubles need to be checked!  In those
cases, there may not be an unambiguous "this is an error return" value, and
then fancier code is needed; e.g., long_float's

static PyObject *
long_float(PyObject *v)
{
	double result;
	result = PyLong_AsDouble(v);
	if (result == -1.0 && PyErr_Occurred())
		return NULL;
	return PyFloat_FromDouble(result);
}

There are at least 3 ways in which PyLong_AsDouble() can fail, but -1.0 is
also a legitimate return value, so PyErr_Occurred() is needed to distinguish
"-1.0 is a normal return" from "-1.0 is an error return".




From urnerk at qwest.net  Thu Apr 15 00:09:57 2004
From: urnerk at qwest.net (urnerk at qwest.net)
Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2004 00:09:57 -0400
Subject: Kuhlman's tutorials pretty good
References: <407E1E20.D0216E92@doe.carleton.ca>
Message-ID: <czqfc.189$Lu2.81780@news.uswest.net>

<posted & mailed>

I like Dave Kuhlman's tutorials as well.  They seem to be in the right place
at the website now:

http://www.python.org/topics/learn/prog.html

However, in looking over 201, I see some scrambling of source code examples,
vs. surrounding text, e.g. when he's getting into regular expressions, some
of the examples have nothing to do with the explanations that follow. 
Notably sections 2.2, 2.3, 2.4, 2.5.  2.6 is mostly OK except:

"""
Put together a new string with string concatenation from pieces of the
original string and replacement values. You can use string slices to get
the sub-strings of the original string. In our case, the following gets the
start of the string, adds the first replacement, adds the middle of the
original string, adds the second replacement, and finally, adds the last
part of the original string:

lineDef = delimitedList(fieldDef)
"""

Kirby


Fred Ma wrote:

> I find Dave Kuhlman's tutorials very good, and very complementary
> to the stock tutorial that is part of the python download.  Even
> when they cover the same thing, if it's not that clear in one
> tutorial, reading the other makes it quite clear.   But one can
> swim around the Python website for ages before rummaging into
> Kulhman's tutorials (Python 101 and 201).  I thought it was easy
> to run into a few days ago.  Has the website changed?  Aren't
> Kuhlman's tutorials good enough to sit shoulder-to-shoulder with
> the other links in "Python for Programmers"?  I thought that's
> where it was before.  Granted, it's got a few sections (like
> Using Regular Expressions and Match Objects, 2.3 & 2.4 of 201)
> that need editting, but invaluable nevertheless.  From the point
> of view of someone still waiting for Learning Python to come.
> 
> Fred



From davidb at mcs.st-and.ac.uk  Thu Apr 15 08:05:00 2004
From: davidb at mcs.st-and.ac.uk (David Boddie)
Date: 15 Apr 2004 05:05:00 -0700
Subject: pyKDE won't build
References: <dRafc.246$Z07.240@news-binary.blueyonder.co.uk>
Message-ID: <4de76ee2.0404150405.6ac2f50d@posting.google.com>

Steven <spamtrap at nowhere.net> wrote in message news:<dRafc.246$Z07.240 at news-binary.blueyonder.co.uk>...
> Hi folks, 
> I'm trying to install pyKDE.
> python, pyQT and sip are installed and working.
> 
> I run python build.py and get the error shown at the end. 
> sip -V gives 3.10.1 (3.10.1-192)
> PyQt version is 3.11

Unfortunately, PyKDE 3.8 isn't guaranteed to work with versions of SIP or
PyQt later than SIP 3.8 and PyQt 3.8. A later version of PyKDE which works
with both KDE 3.2 and more recent versions of PyQt and SIP is scheduled
for release in the near future. Meanwhile, you might want to try getting
hold of compatible versions of PyQt and SIP.

> From the traceback it detects the wrong sip version, but I don't know how to
> make it detect the correct version. There is only one version of sip on my
> system. (slackware linux 9.1)

This all sounds familiar. You may want to take a look at the PyKDE mailing
list archives at

    http://mats.imk.fraunhofer.de/pipermail/pykde/

or even subscribe and repost details of your problem there.

> I don't understand python, but need pyKDE to make something else work. 

Hopefully, you won't need to understand Python to get it all working,
although you may wish to look at it more closely once you see what can be
achieved with Python, PyQt and PyKDE.

David


From deetsNOSPAM at web.de  Thu Apr 15 10:10:42 2004
From: deetsNOSPAM at web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2004 16:10:42 +0200
Subject: Python style of accessing bools?
References: <mailman.650.1082035141.20120.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <c5m5hq$3f864$1@ID-111250.news.uni-berlin.de>

> In other words, do you use accessors or just access the variable directly?

As a lot of things in programming, its a matter of taste. Now I personally
think that using accessors that simply return the value without any
computation are useless, as python has no real concept of private/protected
members.

Now if someone needs to protect her members from unwanted access, IMHO
properties are the way to go.

And I don't like the overhead of defining additional accessors - they're
sort of clumsy and they don't allow for nice assignments like this:

foo.bar = <whatever>



-- 
Regards,

Diez B. Roggisch


From anton at vredegoor.doge.nl  Fri Apr 30 06:56:03 2004
From: anton at vredegoor.doge.nl (Anton Vredegoor)
Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2004 12:56:03 +0200
Subject: Feedback on Sets, and Partitions
References: <mailman.136.1083282936.25742.python-list@python.org>
	<eppstein-A8F4BF.22001829042004@news.service.uci.edu>
	<eppstein-8D7B2C.22292129042004@news.service.uci.edu>
Message-ID: <4092315d$0$133$3a628fcd@reader1.nntp.hccnet.nl>

David Eppstein <eppstein at ics.uci.edu> wrote:

>BTW, here is some code for generating these numbers.  I think it's a 
>little interesting that one can write the obvious one-line definition 
>for factorials, forgetting the base case, and then make it work anyway 
>via the magic of memoization.  Something to think about in connection 
>with PEP 318...

[snip some interesting code]

Here's a more tedious way to do the same, but this code is more
"graphic" in that it shows how one can build up a triangle of numbers
line by line according to some mutation prescription.

Depending on the kind of prescription one ends up with pascals
triangle or the triangle for bell numbers.

def pascal_mutate(L):
    R = [L[i] + L[i+1] for i in xrange(len(L)-1)]
    return [1] + R + [1]

def stirling_mutate(L):
    R = [L[i] + (i+2)*L[i+1] for i in xrange(len(L)-1)]
    return [1] + R + [1]

def triangle(mutator):
    L = [1]
    while 1:
        yield L
        L = mutator(L)

def listify(gen):
    cache = []
    def func(n):
        while len(cache) <= n:
            cache.append(gen.next())
        return cache[n]
    return func

def triangle_function_generator(mutator):
    T = listify(triangle(mutator))
    def func(n,k):
        return T(n)[k]
    return func

pascal = triangle_function_generator(pascal_mutate)
stirling_raw = triangle_function_generator(stirling_mutate)

def noverk(n,k):
    return reduce(lambda a,b: a*(n-b)/(b+1),range(k),1)

def stirling(n,k):
    return stirling_raw(n-1,k-1)

def bell(n):
    return sum([stirling(n,i) for i in range(1,n+1)])
    
def test():
    n,k = 10,4
    assert pascal(n,k) == noverk(n,k)
    print bell(25)

if __name__=='__main__':
    test()

#prints 4638590332229999353

Anton



From martin at v.loewis.de  Mon Apr  5 19:38:32 2004
From: martin at v.loewis.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?=22Martin_v=2E_L=F6wis=22?=)
Date: Tue, 06 Apr 2004 01:38:32 +0200
Subject: Does Python compete with Java?
In-Reply-To: <8b336527.0404051337.51bb4a1b@posting.google.com>
References: <8b336527.0404051337.51bb4a1b@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <c4sqle$ds$03$1@news.t-online.com>

kk wrote:
> I'd like to know if you guys think Python really has a chance to
> compete with Java, .NET, and any other commercially backed language.

Python, by nature, does not compete: it is a product, and only
producers of a product can compete with producers of other products;
products never ever compete with one another (a product has no soul,
and no goal).

Whether the makers of Python compete with the makers of Java or
.NET is an interesting question, and one that is difficult to answer.
The makers of Python a free software developers, many of them
volunteers. The maker of Java is Sun Microsystems, the maker of
.NET is Microsoft. The Python makers have very different motivations,
and for some of them, competing with Sun may be a motivation - others
could not care less.

The same holds for the users: Some users of Python compete with
some users of Java, whereas others don't. This continues into education:
authors of Python books typically compete with authors of Java books,
except for authors of the Python tutorial, which likely don't compete
with anybody (except perhaps that authors of Python books have to
compete with the authors of the Python tutorial and other free
online documentation).

The mission of the Python Software Foundation is (among others), to
publicize, promote the adoption of, and facilitate the ongoing 
development of Python-related technology and educational resources.
Whether or not that makes the PSF a competitor of Sun Microsystems,
I don't know.

> The reason I ask is I think it is important to have a "popular"
> well-supported Open Source language to compete with the big players. 

Why is that important?

> PHP seems to have some momentum in popularity, but I much prefer
> Python as a language.  Python has much to offer over Java, VB, etc...
> Maybe the best chance it has is to ride on the coat-tails of .NET
> (Python.NET) and the JVM (Jython).

If Python works for you, just go ahead and use it. Consider all
advantages and risks, and weigh for yourself.

Regards,
Martin




From alexanro at stud.ntnu.no  Sun Apr 18 20:23:13 2004
From: alexanro at stud.ntnu.no (=?iso-8859-1?q?Alexander_R=F8dseth?=)
Date: Mon, 19 Apr 2004 02:23:13 +0200
Subject: Pygame
References: <c5jdv2$s4$1@orkan.itea.ntnu.no>
	<xZydnfgqeaiK3ODdRVn-tw@powergate.ca>
	<c5jgvh$2m5$1@orkan.itea.ntnu.no>
	<mailman.620.1081958099.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<gandreas-33F0F9.12165314042004@news.mpls.visi.com>
	<c5jt79$8m6$1@orkan.itea.ntnu.no>
	<z4GdnXzhXbzZGuDdRVn-vg@powergate.ca>
	<pan.2004.04.18.22.02.19.625997@stud.ntnu.no>
	<Xns94D0B00218E1JanC@213.119.4.35>
	<pan.2004.04.18.23.31.45.70115@stud.ntnu.no>
	<Xns94D0169635728JanC@213.119.4.35>
Message-ID: <pan.2004.04.19.00.23.12.964517@stud.ntnu.no>

Hm, I guess you're right about that. :)

- Alexander



From davidf at sjsoft.com  Thu Apr 22 03:55:04 2004
From: davidf at sjsoft.com (David Fraser)
Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2004 09:55:04 +0200
Subject: Python use large scale projects
In-Reply-To: <47fc6058.0404212327.24163290@posting.google.com>
References: <47fc6058.0404212327.24163290@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <c67tdn$smf$1@ctb-nnrp2.saix.net>

limor wrote:
> Hi,
> I am considering using Python in a new testing tool application we
> intend to build for out product.
> I must get references before starting develope in this language ,
> since although lots of good things are said about this language , I
> still have my doubts how can it compete with languages like C++ and
> Java.
> I have found te sytax and some features if the language not as
> problematic in maintenance prospective (although I keep reading the
> contrary everywhere I read somthing about python) . For people who are
> used to write in C and C++ I think the python being typless makes the
> code hard to maintain.
On the contrary, I found coming from a C/C++ background that the dynamic 
typing was an advantage.
> But still, In many prespective the language seems to really suit my
> needs and I would really like to talk with people who are using Python
> in their company to medium-large scale project.
> 
> I'd really like to talk with someone who is using this language in his
> work for large scale projects.
> 10x allot for whoe ever reply me on that.
> With Regards,
> limor.

We use Python for a few projects that are about 10000 lines of code.
Note however that this would probably be 40000 lines in C++.
The compact simplicity of Python has made this code much easier to manage...

David


From michele.simionato at poste.it  Sun Apr 25 02:22:17 2004
From: michele.simionato at poste.it (Michele Simionato)
Date: 24 Apr 2004 23:22:17 -0700
Subject: Richards bench benchmark
References: <6748553f.0403291446.27fb7b93@posting.google.com>
	<jLCdnW28-PB6cfXdRVn-iQ@powergate.ca>
	<6748553f.0403300836.744e3e22@posting.google.com>
	<Etqdnd8EeYGjM_TdRVn-jA@powergate.ca>
	<6748553f.0403302317.4595844@posting.google.com>
	<RuKdnc0lmsZFTfHdRVn-ug@powergate.ca>
	<6748553f.0404060802.6e0d708c@posting.google.com>
	<nrKdnaEeNcXAYu_dRVn-vw@powergate.ca>
	<6748553f.0404211342.7591cd8e@posting.google.com>
	<40899240.7020508@engcorp.com>
Message-ID: <95aa1afa.0404242222.15101178@posting.google.com>

Peter Hansen <peter at engcorp.com> wrote in message news:<40899240.7020508 at engcorp.com>...
> http://www.engcorp.com/main/projects/PyBench .
>  The above page is a wiki ...

<remark having nothing to do with the original question>

I see that you use ZWiki; I started using it few days ago
and I like it. My question: did you succeed in getting
the testing framework (http://www.zwiki.org/FitTests) to work?
It seems it is very new and it does not work out of the box,
at least for me. Alternatively, which Web-based test framework
(Fitnless-like) would you suggest for Python?

The question is of course open to everybody having expertise
in the area.
</remark having nothing to do with the original question>

     Michele Simionato


From __peter__ at web.de  Thu Apr 15 04:02:14 2004
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2004 10:02:14 +0200
Subject: Generic constructors and duplication of internal Python logic
References: <87ekqq41ya.fsf@pobox.com>
Message-ID: <c5lfi6$cit$00$1@news.t-online.com>

John J. Lee wrote:

> This is one of those things that I can't quite believe I've never
> needed to do before.
> 
> I've got a set classes, each of which has a set of attributes that all
> behave very similarly.  So, I have a class attribute (Blah.attr_spec
> below), which is used by a mixin class to implement various methods
> that would otherwise be highly repetitious across these classes.  I'd
> like to do the same for the constructor, to avoid this kind of
> nonsense:
> 
> class Blah(NamesMixin):
>     attr_spec = ["foo", "bar", "baz",
>                  ("optional1", None), ("optional2", None)]
>     def __init__(self, foo, bar, baz,
>                  optional1=None, optional2=None):
>         self.foo, self.bar, self.baz = \
>                    foo, bar, baz
>         self.optional1, self.optional2 = \
>                         optional1, optional2
> 
> So, I wrote a mixin class whose __init__ looks at the attr_spec
> attribute, and uses args and kwds (below) to assign attributes in the
> same sort of way as the special-case code above:
> 
> class ArgsMixin:
>     def __init__(self, *args, **kwds):
>         # set attributes based on arguments passed in, as done
>         # manually in Blah.__init__, above
>         ... lots of logic already present in Python goes here...
> 
> That immediately leads to duplication of Python's internal logic: I
> have to check things like:
> 
>  -are there too many positional arguments?
>  -any unexpected keyword arguments?
>  -multiple keyword arguments?
>  -any duplication between positional and keyword arguments?
> 
> etc.
> 
> Surely there's some easy way of making use of Python's internal logic
> here?  For some reason, I can't see how.  Can anybody see a way?

You could use a noop method check_attrs() to define the argspec.
check_attrs() is then called from the mixin's __init__() just to check that
the parameters comply.

import inspect

def make_attrspec(f):
    a = inspect.getargspec(f)
    names = a[0]
    if names[0] in ["self", "cls"]:
        # XXX for now relies on naming convention
        del names[0]
    defaults = a[3]
    for i in range(-1, -len(defaults)-1, -1):
        names[i] = names[i], defaults[i]
    return names

class ArgsMixin:
    def __init__(self, *args, **kwds):
        self.check_attrs(*args, **kwds)

class Blah(ArgsMixin):
    def check_attrs(self, foo, bar, baz, optional1="first",
optional2="second"):
        pass
    attr_spec = make_attrspec(check_attrs)


print Blah.attr_spec
Blah(1, 2, 3)
Blah(1, 2, optional1="o1", baz=99)
Blah(1, 2)

I'm not sure whether check_attrs() should be a class or static method, so I
made it a standard method for now.
Todo: automagically "normalize" the argument list, e. g. convert
Blah(1, 2, optional1="o1", baz=99) to Blah(1, 2, 99, optional1="o1").
A workaround would be to make them all keyword arguments

kwds.update(dict(zip(Blah.attr_spec, args))) 

after the self.check_attrs() call.

Peter



From dd55 at cornell.edu  Wed Apr 28 10:43:38 2004
From: dd55 at cornell.edu (Darren Dale)
Date: Wed, 28 Apr 2004 10:43:38 -0400
Subject: dynamically naming fields?
Message-ID: <MPG.1af98d228ff29f01989680@newsstand.cit.cornell.edu>

I am transitioning from Matlab and am not very literate in Python 
terminology....

I want to load data from a file, and I want to use the header to name my 
fields... for example, I have a file containing "time counter" in the 
header, how do I create Sample.time and Sample.counter? In Matlab it 
would be Sample.(string)

thanks,
Darren


From jobs at signpostnetworks.com  Mon Apr 12 09:48:06 2004
From: jobs at signpostnetworks.com (Frank Steele)
Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2004 13:48:06 GMT
Subject: US-Atlanta Python developer
Message-ID: <jobs-E52C31.09480612042004@news06.east.earthlink.net>

<a href="http://www.signpostnetworks.com/">SignPost Networks</a> 
Atlanta, Georgia (Midtown)

Job Description: Python developers - We're seeking Python developers to 
help us build and manage a network of electronic signs deployed in U.S. 
transit stations. Contract work, 3-6 months duration.

Job Requirements:

- A candidate will have experience developing python web applications 
that interface with relational databases.

- An ideal candidate will additionally possess experience designing 
graphical user interfaces.

- Must be comfortable working solo, or on a small team with minimal
supervision.

- Strong preference for metro Atlanta residents, because of the need to
develop against specialized hardware.

Contract position on a project basis. We will consider proposals from
software development groups. We will begin interviewing as we receive 
resumes.  Candidates with UI experience are asked to provide links or a 
portfolio of past work.

Contact: Mark McClain

E-mail contact: <a
href="mailto:jobs at signpostnetworks.com">jobs at signpostnetworks.com</A>

Please send resume, link(s) to previous project(s), hourly salary
requirements.

Web: <a 
href="http://www.signpostnetworks.com">http://www.signpostnetworks.com/</
a>


From trasno-bounces at ceu.fi.udc.es  Tue Apr 27 19:32:24 2004
From: trasno-bounces at ceu.fi.udc.es (trasno-bounces at ceu.fi.udc.es)
Date: Wed, 28 Apr 2004 01:32:24 +0200
Subject: Your message to Trasno awaits moderator approval
Message-ID: <mailman.7341.1083108744.279.trasno@ceu.fi.udc.es>

Your mail to 'Trasno' with the subject

    Status

Is being held until the list moderator can review it for approval.

The reason it is being held:

    SpamAssassin identified this message as possible spam

Either the message will get posted to the list, or you will receive
notification of the moderator's decision.  If you would like to cancel
this posting, please visit the following URL:

    http://ceu.fi.udc.es/cgi-bin/mailman/confirm/trasno/ddf67f492e5080c88721d9aeff9e5d7f85e41085




From use_reply-to at empty.invalid  Thu Apr  1 12:15:02 2004
From: use_reply-to at empty.invalid (jsaul)
Date: Thu, 1 Apr 2004 19:15:02 +0200
Subject: splitting one dictionary into two
In-Reply-To: <c4hh0i$uol$03$1@news.t-online.com>
References: <20040401153103.GC4577@jsaul.de>
	<c4hh0i$uol$03$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <20040401171502.GD4577@jsaul.de>

* Peter Otten [2004-04-01 18:46]:
> jsaul wrote:
>
> >     dict1 = { "a":1, "b":3, "c":5, "d":4, "e":2 }
> >     dict2 = {}
> >     klist = []
> >
> >     for key in dict1:
> >         if dict1[key] > 3: # some criterion
> >             dict2[key] = dict1[key]
> >             klist.append(key)
> >
> >     for key in klist:
> >         del dict1[key]
> >
> >     print dict1
> >     print dict2
>
> Only a minor change to do away with the temporary list:
>
>     for key in dict1:
>         if dict1[key] > 3: # some criterion
>             dict2[key] = dict1[key]
>
>     for key in dict2:
>         del dict1[key]

Hi Peter and others who responded so quickly,

I notice now that I forgot to mention an important condition,
namely that in real life dict2 is already existing and may have
become huge. That's the reason why I need to somewhere save only
those items which I most recently removed from the 1st dict, as
I want to avoid iterating over the while dict2. In real life,
dict1 contains pending jobs which, after they are done, are moved
to a second dict for post processing.

Sorry for the confusion.

I think the most "pythonic" candidate is actually the version
suggested by Larry, namely

    dict1 = { "a":1, "b":3, "c":5, "d":4, "e":2 }
    dict2 = {} # in real life, dict2 already exists

    for key in dict1.keys():
        if dict1[key] > 3:
            dict2[key] = dict1.pop(key)

    print dict1
    print dict2

Cheers, jsaul


From peter at engcorp.com  Mon Apr  5 11:32:52 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Mon, 05 Apr 2004 11:32:52 -0400
Subject: slightly OT: BUT NEEDs to be said
In-Reply-To: <4078daf265c69e9353e8af72542da703@dizum.com>
References: <4078daf265c69e9353e8af72542da703@dizum.com>
Message-ID: <lvOdnRJzZ9244ezdRVn-uQ@powergate.ca>

Nomen Nescio wrote:
> Hi I downloaded this document about Python recently:
> 
> I loved the cute little Snake graphic.

Some people despise snakes, and are terrified of them.

> I think it would be great for Python.org/people behind Python to adopt this
> as an official mascot and DROP the god awful references to Monty Pythons's
> Flying Circus. It is the later which is causing a slow take up and reluctance
> of many individuals using Python. MPFC is a very very dated concept and because
> of it's strange whacky 'humour' has dubious extreme and loony left wing allegiences
> is not a good backdrop for Python. You should never bring politics into your
> product. 

Nor, perhaps, should you bring politics into your arguments, at least
not if you want to maintain credibility with a largely technical crowd.

> I quite like Python as a language (apart from the tabbing replacing curly brackets
> which I'm not sure about) 

So clearly you haven't used it even enough to get past this concern
about indentation, which generally goes away after only a few days
or perhaps weeks of use.  That hurts your credibility as well...

> and think it stands up well to Perl and PHP but I
> cannot abide the nauseating, puke enducing, gut-wrenching, toe-curling references

Please, stop, you're ranting and getting spittle on your keyboard.

Come back another time without the venomous, near-psychotic
aversion to a comedy troupe which many people actually *like*,
and try to make your point again.  You might get a better
reception.

If you've managed to read this far, which I doubt, then I want you
to know that you might actually have a point.  At least about the
Monty Python references not being a particular _strength_ in
promoting Python.  (Note how that was said in a positive manner
instead of a raving one?)  Nevertheless, you've just insulted a
very large number of the people who participate here frequently,
and you should think about how (in)effective that will make your
argument.

Cheers,
-Peter


From mogmios at mlug.missouri.edu  Sat Apr 24 16:31:55 2004
From: mogmios at mlug.missouri.edu (Michael)
Date: Sat, 24 Apr 2004 13:31:55 -0700
Subject: command-line args
In-Reply-To: <200404241720.i3OHKRjj026384@mlug.missouri.edu>
References: <200404241720.i3OHKRjj026384@mlug.missouri.edu>
Message-ID: <408ACEBB.9090600@mlug.missouri.edu>


>(Michael, I'm keeping this on the mailing list, if you don't
>mind.  I prefer not answering offline questions, unless the
>customer is a paying one. ;-)
>  
>
Sorry, accidently used Reply instead of Reply-All.

>(This works because after the first import of a module inside an
>application, subsequent imports do *not* re-read the .py file,
>but simply get a reference to the already-imported module object
>from the sys.modules dictionary.)
>  
>
Of course that turns out to work. Odd though because I'd swear I tried 
that in a project before and found it not working for me. Is that 
behavior new(ish) in Python? Or maybe I just messed up last time I tried 
and got it in my head that it wouldn't work that way.



From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Sat Apr  3 14:23:59 2004
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 3 Apr 2004 14:23:59 -0500
Subject: Indent testers needed (Prothon)
References: <Unqbc.131025$cx5.57643@fed1read04>
	<noOdnTqctOE3pPPdRVn-tw@powergate.ca>
	<du7wu4xlbd7.fsf@lehtori.cc.tut.fi>
Message-ID: <c4n30f$6s3$1@panix3.panix.com>

In article <du7wu4xlbd7.fsf at lehtori.cc.tut.fi>,
Ville Vainio  <ville at spammers.com> wrote:
>>>>>> "Peter" == Peter Hansen <peter at engcorp.com> writes:
>
>    Peter> I heard a rumour Python is heading for "no tabs", period.
>    Peter> Why not just
>
>I find this rumor hard to believe - there would have been some more
>official announcement, and the resulting code breakage would be
>major. Not all legacy code can be run through reindent.py either...

It's not precisely a rumor; Guido has stated that this is one of the
things he's thinking seriously about for Python 3.0.  There will be
enough incompatibilities that this one won't add much extra strain,
given that the official rules for Python (PEP 8) have mandated only
spaces for several years.
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

"usenet imitates usenet"  --Darkhawk


From confounding at anarchynow.com  Mon Apr  5 15:45:36 2004
From: confounding at anarchynow.com (Moon D. Rungs)
Date: Mon, 05 Apr 2004 12:45:36 -0700
Subject: Up to 80 percent off on medication, Python.
Message-ID: <011001c41b46$4fae0e25$63c945b9@anarchynow.com>

'Ello, 'ello, 'ello, what have we got here?
That state is best ordered when the wicked have no command, and the good have.

Python, searching for a source to purchase medication?
A moment's insight is sometimes worth a life's experience.
The quality of decision is like the well-timed swoop of a falcon which enables it to strike and destroy its victim.
There is a tendency for things to right themselves.

We can send our products worldwide
Where there is much freedom there is much error.
Go here and get it
http://speculating.qwas3da.com/d13/index.php?id=d13
You are totally anonymous!
Since we cannot attain unto it, let us revenge ourselves with railing against it.
Those who can -- do. Those who can't -- criticize.

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From Felix.Wiemann at gmx.net  Wed Apr 14 06:55:37 2004
From: Felix.Wiemann at gmx.net (Felix Wiemann)
Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2004 12:55:37 +0200
Subject: Error with trace.py
References: <87brlvcwvv.fsf@news2.ososo.de>
	<9396ba6f.0404131907.bc6280@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <87smf6akwm.fsf@news2.ososo.de>

Stewart Midwinter schrieb:

> well, are you running as non-root, but trace.py is trying to write to
> a directory that only root has access to?

Yes, obviously.  :)

> I tried the example under Windows
>
> D:\data\python>python d:\python23\lib\trace.py -c -f d:\data\python\counts test1.py

Doesn't work either.

But I found out that it works when using "--coverdir=.":

$ python /usr/lib/python2.3/trace.py --count --coverdir=. test.py

-- 
http://www.ososo.de/


From deetsNOSPAM at web.de  Fri Apr  9 12:44:16 2004
From: deetsNOSPAM at web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Fri, 09 Apr 2004 18:44:16 +0200
Subject: module not callable - why not?
Message-ID: <c56jph$rrk$05$1@news.t-online.com>

Hi,

I just thought about creating a module for quaternions (as an personal
exercise, so I'm not after pointers to classlibs here).

Now usually I'd create a file called "quaternion.py", define my quaternion
class in there and then import and create an instance like this:

import quaternion

q = quaternion.quaternion()

Thats a lot to type. doing a 

from quaternion import quaternion 

would solve that - but AFAIK thats considered bad for some reasons.

Now I thought about defining a __call__ operator at module level to allow
this:

import quaternion

q = quaternion()


where the call looks like this:

def __call__(*a, *kw):
    return quaternion()

But that doesn't work. 

Now my question is: Is there a way to make a module callable that way? And
wouldn't it make sense to allow the implementation of a call operator on
module level?
-- 
Regards,

Diez B. Roggisch


From max at alcyone.com  Mon Apr  5 17:26:39 2004
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Mon, 05 Apr 2004 14:26:39 -0700
Subject: syntax question
References: <c10dc8.0404051323.4594717c@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <4071CF0F.81C068C4@alcyone.com>

AF wrote:

> If I have a list of touples:
> 
> l = [(x1, y1), (x2, y2), ...]
> 
> Is there a 1 line way to extract and get the sum of each x and y
> column.  I can do it this way with 2 lines of code and iterating
> through the list twice:
> 
> sumx = sum([x for x, y in l])
> sumy = sum([y for x, y in l])
> 
> Is there a 1 liner way to get the sums of both x and y and only
> iterate thru the list once?
> 
> Also, is there a way to extract a list of x's and a list of y's from
> the touple list?  1 line of course.

Use zip:

>>> l = ((1, 2), (3, 4), (5, 6))
>>> zip(*l)
[(1, 3, 5), (2, 4, 6)]
>>> xSum, ySum = map(sum, zip(*l))
>>> xSum
9
>>> ySum
12

-- 
 __ Erik Max Francis && max at alcyone.com && http://www.alcyone.com/max/
/  \ San Jose, CA, USA && 37 20 N 121 53 W && AIM erikmaxfrancis
\__/ I do this for the love of music / Not for the glitter and gold
    -- India Arie


From claird at lairds.com  Mon Apr 26 14:13:01 2004
From: claird at lairds.com (Cameron Laird)
Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2004 18:13:01 -0000
Subject: How's ruby compare to it older brother python
References: <c6ich0$c5mee$1@ID-205437.news.uni-berlin.de>
	<108pvmgl0h7m3ea@news.supernews.com> <c6jg7404m@enews4.newsguy.com>
Message-ID: <108qk9dft7h7o52@corp.supernews.com>

In article <c6jg7404m at enews4.newsguy.com>,
Phil Tomson <ptkwt at aracnet.com> wrote:
			.
			.
			.
>Your best bet is to actually use each language for a small project 
>so that you spend about a day with each language.  You'll find that while 
>on the surface both languages seem quite similar, at a deeper level they 
>each have a very different effect on how you think about and approach the 
>problem.  Some people find that Ruby best fits with their brain and others find 
>Python a better fit.  You won't know until you try.
			.
			.
			.
It's not just that "You won't know until you try" ("is it better
to have children, or join the monastery?"); it's that you won't
know until you try, *and it's inexpensive to try*!  It's eminently
feasible to gain experience in either language with a few hours (!)
of work, as opposed to the weeks that must precede enlightenment
about, say, J2EE servers.
-- 

Cameron Laird <claird at phaseit.net>
Business:  http://www.Phaseit.net


From peter at engcorp.com  Tue Apr 13 08:41:55 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2004 08:41:55 -0400
Subject: pdb + unittest
In-Reply-To: <m23c784mjx.fsf@catbert.dok.org>
References: <m23c784mjx.fsf@catbert.dok.org>
Message-ID: <6tadnUz-4_mOfebdRVn-tw@powergate.ca>

Chris Green wrote:

> After forcing myself to start unittest each module I write from the
> get go versus writing some simple apps to excercise some subset of
> functionality, I realized it's pretty hard to use pdb + unittest.
> 
> The standard place is a test case is failing, aborting with an assert
> and I want to debug the statement prior to find out what went wrong.
> 
> def test_method(self):
>     res = self.obj.do_something()
>     self.assertEqual(res, 42)
>     res = foo(res)
> 
> 
> Often I want to debug at the first do something so I replace it with:
> 
>  import pdb
>  res = pdb.runcall(self.obj.do_something)
> 
> This work great but I don't want pdb to exit from interactive control
> until perhaps after the foo(res) call.
> 
> Is there a simple way I could get pdb to shove itself higher up in the
> flow control?  How about a mildly complex one? :)

I'm not entirely clear what you're asking, but generally when
I need to use pdb with unit tests (or any other time), I simply
invoke it with "import pdb; pdb.settrace()" and get the prompt
wherever I want it, single step until I'm satisfied, then type
"c" to continue at full speed.

-Peter


From fumanchu at amor.org  Fri Apr 16 19:52:49 2004
From: fumanchu at amor.org (Robert Brewer)
Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2004 16:52:49 -0700
Subject: global variables extended to other objects/modules
Message-ID: <DE1CF2B4FEC4A342BF62B6B2B334601E56200D@opus.amorhq.net>

Kamil wrote:
> Actually I'm working on an web application based on
> mod_python...
> I need a link to the database that will be
> accessible from _every_ module and object that needs to
> use it.
>8
> The problem wouldn't be so big if I hadn't so many 
> attributes I need to pass to most of my objects, like
> request, session, configuration and other attribs that
> should be 'application-wide'
> It would be very bad to define in every object __init__
> which will have so many arguments.

Some options:

1. Create a single Request object which you pass around. When you create
the Request object, you give it hooks to those other items:

def handle_request():
    req = Request()
    req.session = current_session
    req.dblink = dblink

...my current Big Project, for example, has a UI argument which gets
created for each request. The UI object has a 'namespace' attribute,
which is bound to a Namespace object. The Namespace object has hooks to
OO->DB 'server' objects, which handle storage managers, which might be
database wrappers.

2. Create a global in controller.py. When mod_python loads a module, it
shares it among requests. So once you've declared the global, it should
be fine. You have to make sure you only run your initialization code
once.

3. Use singleton classes instead of module-level globals. Not much
different from #2. Probably cleaner, though, especially if you find out
later you need more than one after all. FWIW, I got bit by that recently
when I built a framework, then two very different apps on top of it.
Guess what happened to the framework globals when I first tried running
them simultaneously? ;) Now I use a Namespace object for each app.

4. Serialize the more static data, with pickle or some other method.
There are lots of ways to share state.


Robert Brewer
MIS
Amor Ministries
fumanchu at amor.org



From claird at lairds.com  Tue Apr 27 14:16:17 2004
From: claird at lairds.com (Cameron Laird)
Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2004 18:16:17 -0000
Subject: Is Perl *that* good?
References: <c6ich0$c5mee$1@ID-205437.news.uni-berlin.de>
	<38ec68a6.0404262308.50029919@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.49.1083084698.25742.python-list@python.org>
	<roy-C34A59.13061627042004@reader2.panix.com>
Message-ID: <108t8rhqnn1i706@corp.supernews.com>

In article <roy-C34A59.13061627042004 at reader2.panix.com>,
Roy Smith  <roy at panix.com> wrote:
>Skip Montanaro <skip at pobox.com> wrote:
>> In addition, as Jamie Zawinski suggests, regular expressions
>> are not always the best choice.
>
>Regular expressions are like duct tape.  They may not be the best tool 
>for everything, but they usually get the job done.

And leave a sticky discolored mess behind.
-- 

Cameron Laird <claird at phaseit.net>
Business:  http://www.Phaseit.net


From python at holdenweb.com  Tue Apr 13 10:03:21 2004
From: python at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2004 10:03:21 -0400
Subject: Logging Stacktrace To File
In-Reply-To: <407bcbca$1_2@newspeer2.tds.net>
References: <407bcbca$1_2@newspeer2.tds.net>
Message-ID: <dxSec.627$2e6.217@lakeread01>

Olaf Meding wrote:
> In case of an exception, how could I log an exception to a file on disk?
> 
> Much appreciate your help, thank you.
> 
> Olaf
> 
> 
Here's what I use, modulo a certain amount of mangling by Mozilla, which 
I am still trying to tame:

def hook(et, ev, eb):
     import traceback
     log("\n  ".join (["Error occurred: traceback 
follows"]+list(traceback.format_exception(et, ev, eb))))

sys.excepthook = hook

This works very well, but you'll need to supply your own "log()" 
function. Shouldn't be too hard ...

regards
  Steve



From guess at askme.com  Tue Apr 13 10:51:25 2004
From: guess at askme.com (Carmine Moleti)
Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2004 14:51:25 GMT
Subject: Processes list under Windows and Linux: How?
Message-ID: <N7Tec.66715$rM4.2704780@news4.tin.it>

Hi to everyone,

I was thinking of a way to get the list of processes running on a machine
both with Windows and Linux.

Is there anything I could search for in the standard library?

Thanks in advance for your help
Regards,
Carmine




From joewong at mango.cc  Fri Apr  2 01:32:10 2004
From: joewong at mango.cc (Joe Wong)
Date: Fri, 2 Apr 2004 14:32:10 +0800
Subject: threading priority
Message-ID: <014e01c4187c$3a9b3cc0$7f00a8c0@scl01.siliconcreation.com>

Hi, Is there any way to increase/decrease a thread priority in Python?

Best regards,

-- Wong
-------------- next part --------------
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From peter at engcorp.com  Fri Apr  9 22:36:08 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Fri, 09 Apr 2004 22:36:08 -0400
Subject: raise Exception Syntax question
In-Reply-To: <c573s4$oqi$03$1@news.t-online.com>
References: <c573s4$oqi$03$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <VaKdnZrKVYAFwOrd4p2dnA@powergate.ca>

chris wrote:

>  >>> raise e, "MESSAGE"
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "<interactive input>", line 1, in ?
> Exception: MESSAGE
> 
> 
>  >>> raise e("MESSAGE")
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "<interactive input>", line 1, in ?
> Exception: MESSAGE
> 
> is there a preferable way?

The latter is preferred by many, but in any case note that the
former is basically translated to the latter by Python itself
when it executes that code so you might as well go with it.
The "except" statement catches an instance, after all, so
explicitly raising one is probably a Good Thing.

-Peter


From newsgroups at jhrothjr.com  Sun Apr 11 17:38:02 2004
From: newsgroups at jhrothjr.com (John Roth)
Date: Sun, 11 Apr 2004 17:38:02 -0400
Subject: accept xml instead of plain Python text?
References: <107jc0h6r5c3g3d@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <107jenfmso3tce7@news.supernews.com>

"Edward K. Ream" <edreamleo at charter.net> wrote in message
news:107jc0h6r5c3g3d at corp.supernews.com...
> I am wondering whether that has been any discussion of a project like the
> following in the Python world:
>
> - jezix http://www.tel.fer.hr/users/mtopol/jezix/
> - javaml http://sourceforge.net/projects/javaml/
>
> The general idea is that it would sometimes be nice to be able to feed xml
> to the Python parser instead of plain text.  I can think of several
reasons
> why this would be _inconvenient_ for the Python community.  Foremost among
> them would be that no plain-text tool would work with xml'zed Python.
>
> Has the subject been discussed in the Python community? If so, where?  I
> suspect this is a bad (or cumbersome) idea, but I'd like to be sure :-)
> Thanks.

I'm not aware of it being discussed, but as far as I can tell,
it shouldn't be all that hard to do if you're willing to do some
work. Look at Section 19 in the Python Library Reference,
plus the parser writeup in 18.1 and marshal in 3.19 (the section
numbers change when the doc changes.)

You should be able to convert an XML format of your
design to an AST and compile it to bytecodes; likewise
you should be able to generate an XML file from the AST.

The only thing that seems to be missing is a routine to actually
build a .pyc or .pyo file. I'm not sure how much work that
would be, but you might get some clues from 18.10 - dis
(the python disassembler)

While I'm quite skeptical of the utility of XML as a
programming language format, your reference 2 does
make some interesting points. You might also check
out the IO language, where the parse tree is the definitive
form of the language, and the actual text form is represented
as only one way to do it.

As innumerable project managers have discovered,
the best way to find the *real* requirements is to get
something out there and find out what real users say
about it.

John Roth


> Edward




From fumanchu at amor.org  Wed Apr 21 13:45:03 2004
From: fumanchu at amor.org (Robert Brewer)
Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2004 10:45:03 -0700
Subject: Stupid Regex Question
Message-ID: <DE1CF2B4FEC4A342BF62B6B2B334601E562035@opus.amorhq.net>

Jonas Galvez wrote:
> I'm sorry, what do you mean by "top-posting"? English is my second
> language so I'm not very used to a few expressions. Also, I'm
> posting to this group via gmane.org's NNTP server.

First, it's not a personal issue for me. However, some people get quite
upset over it. You can read about it at:
http://www.dickalba.demon.co.uk/usenet/guide/faq_topp.html


FuManChu



From mikalzetTogli at interfree.it  Mon Apr  5 18:22:04 2004
From: mikalzetTogli at interfree.it (TaeKyon)
Date: Mon, 05 Apr 2004 22:22:04 GMT
Subject: recursive file editing
References: <pan.2004.04.03.20.25.28.565809@interfree.it>
	<ccFbc.4784$zf6.64753@news4.e.nsc.no>
	<pan.2004.04.03.22.42.10.659781@interfree.it>
	<c4no62$6so$1@news.service.uci.edu>
	<pan.2004.04.05.16.40.22.824776@interfree.it>
	<c4s46m$5s0$03$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <pan.2004.04.05.22.22.04.193993@interfree.it>

Il Mon, 05 Apr 2004 19:15:01 +0200, Peter Otten ha scritto:

> You need to compose the filepath, and, yes, it's a bit clumsy.
> I've written a little generator function to hide some of the clumsiness:
> 
> def files(folder):
>     for path, folders, files in os.walk(folder):
>         for name in files:
>             yield os.path.join(path, name)
> 
> With that the code is simplified to:
> 
> for filepath in files("/path/to/folder"):
>     fileopen = file(filepath, 'r+')
>     fileopen.write("This works !")
>     fileopen.close()

Great !
 
--  
Michele Alzetta



From edreamleo at charter.net  Sun Apr 11 16:52:31 2004
From: edreamleo at charter.net (Edward K. Ream)
Date: Sun, 11 Apr 2004 15:52:31 -0500
Subject: accept xml instead of plain Python text?
Message-ID: <107jc0h6r5c3g3d@corp.supernews.com>

I am wondering whether that has been any discussion of a project like the
following in the Python world:

- jezix http://www.tel.fer.hr/users/mtopol/jezix/
- javaml http://sourceforge.net/projects/javaml/

The general idea is that it would sometimes be nice to be able to feed xml
to the Python parser instead of plain text.  I can think of several reasons
why this would be _inconvenient_ for the Python community.  Foremost among
them would be that no plain-text tool would work with xml'zed Python.

Has the subject been discussed in the Python community? If so, where?  I
suspect this is a bad (or cumbersome) idea, but I'd like to be sure :-)
Thanks.

Edward
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Edward K. Ream   email:  edreamleo at charter.net
Leo: Literate Editor with Outlines
Leo: http://webpages.charter.net/edreamleo/front.html
--------------------------------------------------------------------




From grzegorz at ee.ualberta.ca  Sat Apr 17 14:58:10 2004
From: grzegorz at ee.ualberta.ca (Grzegorz Dostatni)
Date: Sat, 17 Apr 2004 14:58:10 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Static Modules...
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0404171235310.29550-200000@e5-05.ee.ualberta.ca>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0404171006210.27811-100000@e5-05.ee.ualberta.ca>
	<mailman.730.1082221828.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<Pine.LNX.4.44.0404171235310.29550-200000@e5-05.ee.ualberta.ca>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0404171454070.29550-200000@e5-05.ee.ualberta.ca>


Here is another version of the autoload module. This is now at 0.3 and
moving on.

We can now handle multiple module loading per single statement. For
example:

>>> import autoload
>>> sys.setrecursionlimit(os.F_OK+100)
>>>

Will work. However, the nested error will create a very long exception
stack trace. I have not decided yet if it's a good thing or not.

>>> import autoload
>>> sys.setrecursionlimit(os.F_OK)
Error in sys.excepthook:
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "autoload.py", line 28, in autoload_exc
    autoload_exc(type, exc, traceback)
  File "autoload.py", line 21, in autoload_exc
    exec traceback.tb_frame.f_code in f_locals, f_globals
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
ValueError: recursion limit must be positive

Original exception was:
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
NameError: name 'sys' is not defined

Greg


Advice is what we ask for when we already know the answer but wish we
didn't.
          -- Erica Jong (How to Save Your Own Life, 1977)


On Sat, 17 Apr 2004, Grzegorz Dostatni wrote:
-------------- next part --------------
#
# Autoload - v. 0.3 
# Dynamically load modules as they are referenced.
# 
# by Grzegorz Dostatni on April 17, 2003
#

import sys

def autoload_exc(type, value, traceback):
	if type == NameError:
		modulename = value.args[0].split()[1][1:-1]
		f_locals = traceback.tb_frame.f_locals
		f_globals = traceback.tb_frame.f_globals

		# simple way of handling errors for now:
		# If this fails in any way - display the original exception
		
		try:
			exec "import " + modulename in f_locals, f_globals
			exec traceback.tb_frame.f_code in f_locals, f_globals
		except NameError, exc:
			# reload the exception with the original code object
			# type remains the same - NameError
			# value = exc
			# traceback remains the same as well..

			autoload_exc(type, exc, traceback)
	else: 
		sys.__excepthook__(type, value, traceback)

sys.excepthook = autoload_exc


From faassen at infrae.com  Tue Apr 27 14:30:33 2004
From: faassen at infrae.com (Martijn Faassen)
Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2004 20:30:33 +0200
Subject: EuroPython news update april 27
Message-ID: <mailman.1083160933.12182.clpa-moderators@python.org>

Hi there,

Back again with news about EuroPython. The talk submission deadline has 
now passed, which means we can give you a little preview of our program:

http://www.europython.org/conferences/epc2004/info/talks/acceptedTalksOverview

Note that this is not by far the complete program, just a preview. The 
Zope track for instance hasn't any accepted talks yet at the time of 
this writing, while in reality it's shaping up to be as big as last year 
(i.e. 3 days of Zope related talks).

If this overview suddenly prompted you to register with the conference, 
please note: the early bird deadline closes may 1st, which is next 
saturday! If you wait until later, you'll pay more.

More about EuroPython, including how to register, can be found here:

http://www.europython.org

Hope to see you at EuroPython!

Martijn



From simonb at NOTTHISBIT.webone.com.au  Sun Apr 18 06:36:26 2004
From: simonb at NOTTHISBIT.webone.com.au (Simon Burton)
Date: Sun, 18 Apr 2004 11:36:26 +0100
Subject: audio input?
References: <3fa378e7.0404141117.5e9f0428@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <pan.2004.04.18.10.36.24.918775@NOTTHISBIT.webone.com.au>

On Wed, 14 Apr 2004 12:17:46 -0700, Tally wrote:

> I am writing a nifty app that plays a series of sinewaves at different
> frequencies where they are fed into a simple circuit involving either an
> inductor or capacitor of unknown value. Another waveform is read back in
> via the Line In of the computer and through various little tricks my
> Python program will calculate the inductance or capitance of the part.
> 

I've been using python for sound stuff for a while now.
Here is some of my work:
http://arrowtheory.com/software/hypersonic/index.html
http://sourceforge.net/projects/dsptools/

Probably dsptools is closer to your requirements.
There is not much documentation, but i'm free to help out any.

cheers,

Simon.




From rpm1deleteme at direcway.com  Sun Apr 11 09:06:02 2004
From: rpm1deleteme at direcway.com (RPM1)
Date: Sun, 11 Apr 2004 09:06:02 -0400
Subject: Python is the best and most popular general purpose scripting
	language; the universal scripting language
References: <a5415304.0404101350.271088f2@posting.google.com>
	<roy-22B4DA.18282210042004@reader1.panix.com>
	<c59u4k$ki9$1@atlantis.news.tpi.pl>
	<a5415304.0404101836.48909210@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <c5bfsq$2qaotl$1@ID-203708.news.uni-berlin.de>


"Ron Stephens"  wrote
<snip>

> I guess my main point is, Python is the best general purpose scripting
> language. Maybe I (and maybe some other folks too?) sort of wanted
> Python to out-compete Java and C#: but it isn't happening. Likewise,
> as someone said, Perl is definitely more popular still than Python,
> BUT, I think Python is more general purpose than Perl. Perl has a heck
> of a lot of libraries (CPAN etc) and Perl is great for text
> processing; I also can't help but notice that Perl is the most
> commonly available and well supported language for CGI. But Perl
> doesn't get used for apps like Zope and Chandler, Python does. PHP is,
> for that matter, more popular than Python also, but for a limited
> problem domain.
>
> For better or worse, Python isn't going to be as entrenched in the
> corporate world as Java or .Net any time soon. Neither is Python going
> to displace PHP as most popular in PHP's domain, nor will Python even
> surpass Perl in absolute terms any time soon.
>
> BUT, Python is the most general purpose of the scripting languages and
> this gives Python a very interesting niche for the long term. Having
> Jython and now IronPython is a nice long term situation also.

>From what I've seen over the years, it seems like one of Python's
strong niches is scientific and numeric computing, which seems
like a weird place for a "scripting language" to excel.  It's probably
due to Python's talent at wrapping C and Fortran code.  Python
does for programmers what GUI's do for users.

Just my $0.02
Patrick




From fumanchu at amor.org  Sun Apr 18 18:47:48 2004
From: fumanchu at amor.org (Robert Brewer)
Date: Sun, 18 Apr 2004 15:47:48 -0700
Subject: module not callable - why not?
Message-ID: <DE1CF2B4FEC4A342BF62B6B2B334601E562017@opus.amorhq.net>

Josiah Carlson wrote:
> Singletons aren't nearly as prevalent as you seem to believe.  Take a 
> peek in the standard library, and you'll find a large body of 
> good code 
> that has chosen not to use the "singleton design pattern".  Truth be 
> told, I've used singletons before, but only once.

I thought I had twice,
But now I can see there was
Only one instance.

;)


FuManChu



From python at holdenweb.com  Wed Apr 14 22:06:18 2004
From: python at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2004 22:06:18 -0400
Subject: Method for providing a trail period on a program
In-Reply-To: <avOdnevBfd4kPODdRVn-gg@comcast.com>
References: <L8idnY07QbRfNPHdRVn-hw@comcast.com>
	<slrnc6pcmh.1f2.bignose-hates-spam@rose.localdomain.fake>
	<407CF4F0.4020604@yahoo.com.au>
	<avOdnevBfd4kPODdRVn-gg@comcast.com>
Message-ID: <A6mfc.1562$2e6.1366@lakeread01>

Larry Bates wrote:

> My post has gotten some really varied responses.
> I've been writing software for over 30 years
> so I know that there is no "fool-proof" way
> of doing what I want.  But I thought someone
> may have come up with an "acceptable" solution.
> I contribute to this newsgroup on a regular
> basis and thought I would at least ask.
> 
> I find the idea that you can give the software
> away and charge for support an interesting one.
> If you write REALLY good software with REALLY
> good documentation that provides REALLY good
> tracing and debugging support (so users can
> track down their own problems), what are you
> going to charge for?
> 
> The reason I wanted to put a trial period on
> my software was that I may have the opportunity
> to place it on the CDROM with a hardware device
> that is being sold.  I would like every end
> user to have the opportunity of trying out my
> add-on package.  I am however, not prepared to
> let them run it forever for free.  If it provides
> value to them, I believe they should purchase a
> license.  This may put me in the minority on
> a Python site, but that's the way I feel.
> 
Larry:

I personally, and many others who read this newsgroup, have no problem 
with you wanting to profit by and from your labors. But unless I'm much 
mistaken, the majority of end-users will be pretty much completely 
bamboozled by even very simple techniques like creating a file or a 
registry entry on installation and then timing out unless some 
authenticator that only you cna provide is present on the disk.

Even if you regard the majority of users as dishonest, I feel you are 
vastly overrating their typical technical abilities.

Bear in mind the python.org webmasters see at least five queries a week 
along the lines of "I just found Python on my computer, what's it there 
for and can I remove it?"

Good luck with the CD sampler.

regards
  SteVe



From grante at visi.com  Wed Apr 28 09:47:40 2004
From: grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards)
Date: 28 Apr 2004 13:47:40 GMT
Subject: Don't understand wxPython ids
References: <408ed938$0$17263$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
	<BOEjc.12559$eZ5.4366@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>
	<1a34m1-fml.ln1@home.rogerbinns.com>
Message-ID: <408fb5fc$0$17264$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>

On 2004-04-28, Roger Binns <rogerb at rogerbinns.com> wrote:

> Here is how I use the same id in multiple locations.  I can have a
> menu entry, a toolbar button, and a button inside some HTML all
> invoke the same function.  The only coupling between them is
> the id number.
>
>       ID_FILE_DELETE=wx.NewId()
>           ...
>           menu.Append(self.ID_FILE_DELETE, "&Delete", "Delete the file")
>           ....
>           toolbar.AddLabelTool(self.ID_FILE_DELETE, "Delete", ....)
>           ....
>           wx.EVT_MENU(self, self.ID_FILE_DELETE, self.OnFileDelete)
>           ....
>           wx.EVT_BUTTON(self, self.ID_FILE_DELETE, self.OnFileDelete)

I understand, but compare the above code with this:

>           menu.Append("&Delete", "Delete the file", action=self.OnFileDelete)
>           ....
>           toolbar.AddLabelTool("Delete", action=self.OnFileDelete)

Which is easier to understand at a glance?


[pardon the re-arrangement]

> You can also use id ranges in wxPython 2.5 which makes it easy to
> send a whole bunch of different items to the same handler.

Now _that's_ something you can actually point to as a "feature"
of the ID scheme.

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow!  .. I want FORTY-TWO
                                  at               TRYNEL FLOATATION SYSTEMS
                               visi.com            installed within SIX AND A
                                                   HALF HOURS!!!


From tzot at sil-tec.gr  Fri Apr 23 03:44:22 2004
From: tzot at sil-tec.gr (Christos TZOTZIOY Georgiou)
Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2004 10:44:22 +0300
Subject: bytecode JUMP_IF_* always followed by POP_TOP?
References: <mailman.928.1082667046.20120.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <johh80hd716ia06dab8n2kviarvv5u4202@4ax.com>

On Thu, 22 Apr 2004 13:48:16 -0700, rumours say that "Robert Brewer"
<fumanchu at amor.org> might have written:

>I notice that, whether JUMP_IF_FALSE jumps or not, the next instruction
>it executes is POP_TOP (in the above, instruction numbers 6 and 14).

The following thread is relevant <long URL>:

<URL:http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&threadm=bpr6musc14m74uqss78iehtl72h9qrmu7o%404ax.com&rnum=1&prev=/groups%3Fq%3Dgroup%253Acomp.lang.python%2BPOP_TOP%2Bauthor%253ATZOTZIOY%26ie%3DUTF-8%26oe%3DUTF-8%26hl%3Den>

Check also my next message in that thread.

I remember the results were not that impressive in pystone and some
other benchmarks (1-2% or less).
-- 
TZOTZIOY, I speak England very best,
Ils sont fous ces Redmontains! --Harddix


From mlh at furu.idi.ntnu.no  Sat Apr 10 07:58:27 2004
From: mlh at furu.idi.ntnu.no (Magnus Lie Hetland)
Date: Sat, 10 Apr 2004 11:58:27 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Simple text markup (-> HTML)
References: <tyf3c7m1zic.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
Message-ID: <slrnc7fob3.j4i.mlh@furu.idi.ntnu.no>

In article <tyf3c7m1zic.fsf at pcepsft001.cern.ch>, Jacek Generowicz wrote:
[snip]

I second the suggestion to use reStructuredText, but just in case you
really want to play around with a format of your own, you could take a
look at Atox, which lets you do that:

  http://atox.sf.net

-- 
Magnus Lie Hetland  "Oppression and harassment is a small price to pay
http://hetland.org   to live in the land of the free."  -- C. M. Burns


From mark at deverter.net  Mon Apr 12 23:00:50 2004
From: mark at deverter.net (Mark d.)
Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2004 03:00:50 GMT
Subject: Apache cgi help
Message-ID: <CJIec.28476$Y45.4777@fe2.texas.rr.com>

(crosspost)

I have a cgi script (python) that will need to shell out and kill a 
process on that server upon request from an authorized user.  What is 
the best way to set up apache2 to allow this to happen?  Use suExec, 
cgiwrapper or run Apache as a different user/group ?

Thanks, I look forward to hearing the best way to implement this.

Cheers,
Mark d.



From bear at bears.org  Thu Apr 22 13:23:00 2004
From: bear at bears.org (Gary Coulbourne)
Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2004 13:23:00 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Proper Way of checking for a collections class
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.56.0404221321160.26411@instinct.bears.org>

Howdy,

I've been trying to find a good idiom for testing if the input to a
function is one of the collections classes... the best I could do is this:

if hasattr(thing_to_test, '__iter__'):
    ...

Is this right?  Or, is there a better way besides a cascade of type()
tests?

Thanks!

Peace,
Gary



From derek at hiredgoons.org  Wed Apr  7 10:22:21 2004
From: derek at hiredgoons.org (Derek Thomson)
Date: Thu, 08 Apr 2004 00:22:21 +1000
Subject: Are line continuations needed?
In-Reply-To: <407409ef.82801353@news.eircom.net>
References: <407409ef.82801353@news.eircom.net>
Message-ID: <40740f99@duster.adelaide.on.net>

Russell Wallace wrote:
> Hi all,
> 
> Python lets you continue a single logical line across more than one
> physical line, either by putting a \ at the end or letting it happen
> automatically with an incomplete infix operator.
> 
> I'm wondering how often is this feature needed? Would there be any
> problems if it weren't part of the language?
> 

I just needed to use this a few minutes ago, in a class declaration ...

class ParticleDistributionBehaviorServer \
           (Microphysics__POA.ParticleDistributionBehavior):

I had to split the line to fit within 80 columns, and without the '\' 
character I get the following error:

=====
$ python scoping_server.py --POA
   File "scoping_server.py", line 8
     class ParticleDistributionBehaviorServer
                                             ^
SyntaxError: invalid syntax
=====

So the fact that you don't need it in the case of incomplete expressions 
eliminates *most* of the need for it, but there are still a few cases 
where it is required.

Regards,
Derek.


From Kyler at news.Lairds.org  Fri Apr 16 17:08:12 2004
From: Kyler at news.Lairds.org (Kyler Laird)
Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2004 21:08:12 GMT
Subject: Convert from PDF to raster format image
References: <8a27e309.0404161054.2a5c5ecc@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <5vt5l1-fq.ln1@snout.lairds.org>

ny_r_marquez at yahoo.com (R.Marquez) writes:

>Does any one know of a way to convert PDF documents into a raster
>format, such as TIFF or JPEG?  Of course to do it in Python would be
>my preference, but if you know of another way to do this
>programatically I would also be interested.  Thanks.

I'm all for Pythonic solutions but from my experience your best bet
is to just use Ghostscript.  It's easy to call it from Python.

--kyler


From fredrik at pythonware.com  Sun Apr 18 12:36:14 2004
From: fredrik at pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Sun, 18 Apr 2004 18:36:14 +0200
Subject: module not callable - why not?
References: <c56jph$rrk$05$1@news.t-online.com><107dras2heahcb6@news.supernews.com><mailman.491.1081538569.20120.python-list@python.org><8ef9bea6.0404122025.36efc84e@posting.google.com><c5tef0$5hf$1@news.service.uci.edu><7xsmf1fxd9.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<8ef9bea6.0404180823.7a3bc189@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <c5uap9$fan$1@sea.gmane.org>

Hung Jung Lu wrote:

> In prototype-based OOP, you don't have any of these problems.

most of those problems don't apply if you're using Python in the "old way".

it's not like you *need* metaclasses, singleton patterns,
staticmethods/classmethods,
or class/module properties to write rock-solid, easily maintained,
efficient, and scalable
Python programs.   Python works just fine without them.

</F>






From sdementen at hotmail.com  Thu Apr 29 03:13:58 2004
From: sdementen at hotmail.com (Sebastien de Menten)
Date: 29 Apr 2004 00:13:58 -0700
Subject: Generic constructors and duplication of internal Python logic
References: <87ekqq41ya.fsf@pobox.com>
	<8dad5312.0404280217.21c2cfd1@posting.google.com>
	<95aa1afa.0404280619.778bd323@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <8dad5312.0404282313.8eb76b0@posting.google.com>

> > Here is a metaclass for uber-lazy user :-)
> > 
> > Concretely, at the creation of the class it takes the source of the
> > __init__ function and add, at the first line of __init__, the line
> > that sets the attributes :
> > >         self.foo, self.bar, self.baz, self.optional1, self.optional2 = 
> > >                    foo, bar, baz, optional1, optional2
> > 
> 
> Unfortunately this approach does not work if the source is not available
> (this happens when you are in the interpreter, or when you only have a .pyc 
> file). I was playing this kind of tricks some time ago, then I decided that
> it was best to switch to Lisp/Scheme for this kind of stuff ;)
> 
> 
>   Michele Simionato

I agree that it is quite low-level. However, 1) I think people are
"very" rarely creationg new classes directly in the interpreter (it's
a pain!) 2) I don't get the point about the .pyc (the metaclass is in
the pyc ? the class is in the pyc ?)
About the List/scheme option, it would be definitely way easier to do
it with macros in those languages but, hey, if i'm working with
python, i need a solutioon in python, don't I ?

Seb


From christopher.grinde at hive.no  Fri Apr 30 03:01:41 2004
From: christopher.grinde at hive.no (Christopher Grinde)
Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2004 08:01:41 +0100
Subject: pyuic for qtdesigner 3.3
Message-ID: <b0mkc.888$Yc.14616@news4.e.nsc.no>

I've had trubles getting a puic that translates files from qt-designer 3.3
Does anyone if there exist one, and if so, where to get it?
-- 
----------------------------
Christopher Grinde
Vestfold University College
Institute of microsystem technology.
http://ri.hive.no/imst



From loic at yermat.net1.nerim.net  Thu Apr  8 14:07:01 2004
From: loic at yermat.net1.nerim.net (Yermat)
Date: Thu, 08 Apr 2004 20:07:01 +0200
Subject: Special Method and Class
Message-ID: <c544a4$2gnk$1@biggoron.nerim.net>

Hi all,

Why does special methods not work on class ? Or how to make them work ?
Here a simple example :

 >>> class Test(object):
...     def __repr__(cls):
...         return "<special %s>" % cls.__name__
...     __repr__ = classmethod(__repr__)
...     def __str__(cls):
...         return "<test %s>" % cls.__name__
...     __str__ = classmethod(__str__)
...
 >>> print Test
<class '__main__.Test'>
 >>> print str(Test)
<class '__main__.Test'>
 >>> print repr(Test)
<class '__main__.Test'>
 >>> print Test.__repr__()
<special Test>

In fact, what I want to do is with __iter__ :

import weakref
class RememberInstance(object):
     instances = []

     def __init__(self,name):
         self.name = name
         self.__class__.instances.append(weakref.ref(self))

     def __iter__(cls):
         for wref in cls.instances:
             inst = wref()
             if inst:
                 yield inst
     __iter__ = classmethod(__iter__)


t1 = RememberInstance('t1')
t2 = RememberInstance('t2')

for inst in RememberInstance:
     print inst.name

Yermat



From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Sun Apr 11 01:37:43 2004
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 11 Apr 2004 01:37:43 -0400
Subject: why is python better than eg. smalltalk?? no one has any solid
	arguments! you should all go to church with all that religious talk!
References: <mailman.440.1081414295.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<c59lvb$mtm$1@nemesis.news.tpi.pl> <c5abbm$ko8$1@panix2.panix.com>
	<roy-5C8DA0.23052910042004@reader1.panix.com>
Message-ID: <c5alj7$afu$1@panix2.panix.com>

In article <roy-5C8DA0.23052910042004 at reader1.panix.com>,
Roy Smith  <roy at panix.com> wrote:
>aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz) wrote:
>>
>> I found my editor fifteen years ago.  Guess which it is.
>
>My guess is emacs, in which case I've got 6 or 7 years on you :-)

Funny that two people made the same guess, when y'all could have gotten
the correct answer by going to my personal web page.  ;-)

http://rule6.info/

>> (The point being that there are only two editors still in regular use 
>> that were available fifteen years ago -- and those two editors are 
>> still ubiquitous now.  Doesn't matter much which you pick, they'll 
>> still be available fifteen years in the future.)
>
>I suspect you're right, but I don't necessarily think that's a good 
>thing.  Both emacs and vi have had long runs, but it's logical to assume 
>that better things will come along.

Not too bloody likely.  There just isn't any development work on new
console editors these days, and many of us will give up our consoles
when you pry them from our cold, dead fingers.

>I know it's possible to handle both news and email inside emacs, but I 
>use dedicated GUI apps for both of those tasks.  I still use emacs for 
>programming, but there's some really good IDE's out there, and my guess 
>is they will become more and more the norm.  And while I curse and wail 
>about how bad MS Word is, I also realize that troff just isn't happening 
>any more (I did plenty of cursing and wailing about troff back in the 
>"good old days").

You need to try reST.
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

Why is this newsgroup different from all other newsgroups?


From brian at sweetapp.com  Wed Apr 21 12:12:15 2004
From: brian at sweetapp.com (Brian Quinlan)
Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2004 18:12:15 +0200
Subject: python shutting down sloooooooowly/tuning dictionaries
In-Reply-To: <20040421153923.GA13234%till@score.is.tsukuba.ac.jp>
References: <20040421153923.GA13234%till@score.is.tsukuba.ac.jp>
Message-ID: <40869D5F.9010408@sweetapp.com>

> Since the entire database is too large I typically run the same
> program 10-100 times on smaller parts. The annoying bit is that the
> time for finishing one instance of a program before starting the next
> instance can take a lot of time.  I have started using a shell script to
> check whether certain files have been written and then kill the
> program from the os to speed up everything. But this solution is way 
> too ugly. There should be a better way, but I don't seem to be able to
> find one.

You might try disabling garbage collection using the gc module when you 
your application is done. Explicitly closing any files bound to globals 
might then be a good idea.

Cheers,
Brian




From afigueiredo at elnetcorp.com.br  Thu Apr  8 15:57:37 2004
From: afigueiredo at elnetcorp.com.br (Aloysio Figueiredo)
Date: Thu, 8 Apr 2004 16:57:37 -0300
Subject: killing process
In-Reply-To: <9thdc.4400$jR6.3088@fe2.texas.rr.com>
References: <9thdc.4400$jR6.3088@fe2.texas.rr.com>
Message-ID: <20040408195737.GB6088@cerberus.elnet.grupomk>

* Mark d. <mark at deverter.net> [08-04-2004 16:26]:
> This works just fine in the interpreter.
> Anyone have any ideas what I am overlooking?

Perhaps the user running apache is not allowed to kill the process...

Cheers, 
Aloysio

> 
> Cheers,
> Mark d.
> 
> -- 
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
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From dtolton at nospam.org  Fri Apr 16 17:47:11 2004
From: dtolton at nospam.org (Doug Tolton)
Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2004 21:47:11 GMT
Subject: CamelCase versus wide_names (Prothon)
In-Reply-To: <mailman.692.1082128489.20120.python-list@python.org>
References: <UHxfc.9323$dZ1.3740@fed1read04>	<87hdvl2dny.fsf@blakie.riol><c5mr6h$jkn$1@atlantis.news.tpi.pl>	<87d6692ar8.fsf@blakie.riol><mailman.674.1082103786.20120.python-list@python.org><FCNfc.25592$zf6.94057@news4.e.nsc.no>	<87wu4gjkwb.fsf@blakie.riol>
	<mailman.692.1082128489.20120.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <zvYfc.13304692$Of.2216528@news.easynews.com>

Terry Reedy wrote:
> "Wilk" <wilkSPAM at OUTflibuste.net> wrote in message
> news:87wu4gjkwb.fsf at blakie.riol...
> 
>>Why not - instead of _ ?
> 
> 
> I believe some Lisps do use -.  If so, they can do so because of the prefix
> and space-separator syntax:
> 
> (- a-c c) is unambiguously a-c - c
> 
> Terry J. Reedy
> 
> 
> 
> 

Terry,

You are right, in fact all Lisps that I've used use a hyphen as the 
convention for variable separators.

(defun my-function (this-is-a-variable another-variable)
	(run-another-function this-is-a-variable another-variable))

Above is a rather verbose example of some lisp code.  Lisp uses 
whitespace as token delimeters which opens up some very interesting 
possibilities for variable names such as *a-global-variable* and many 
others.  The hyphen I find is by far the easiest, most natural and 
visually appealing method for concatenating words IMO (it happens to be 
the method we use in english as well), it also requires the least amount 
of keystrokes.  However the hyphen can only be used in a postfix or a 
prefix notation as it is in Lisp.  With an in-fix syntax like Python I 
don't know how you could un-ambiguously determine the difference between 
"a minus b" and an identifier named a-b.

Given the lisp background, I started out using mixedCase and 
PascalCasing as a convention many years ago.  I found out over the years 
that people have a hard time deciding whether or not some words should 
be all in caps, or only in intial caps (someone used an example above 
something to the effect about theGui or theGUI or TheGUI or even 
TheGui).  A lot of people who love mixed-casing tend to minimize the 
problems with this when using a case-sensitive language, but it gets 
irritating always having to look up the casing on function calls.

Personally I like wide_names better than mixedCase in any language that 
doesn't allow me to use the hyphen for tokens.  My vote is that you 
stick with wide names since you are modeling Prothon on Python.  If you 
were modeling it on Java or C#, then I would agree with mixedCase.  Of 
course this is an aesthetic issue and taste varies wildly on this issue. 
  At my place of employment we have agreed that whoever created the 
module gets to determine the format (ie, mixedCase or wide_case).  As 
you can imagine we have an abundance of stylistic choices.
-- 
Doug Tolton
(format t "~a@~a~a.~a" "dtolton" "ya" "hoo" "com")


From tjreedy at udel.edu  Wed Apr 21 13:21:49 2004
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2004 13:21:49 -0400
Subject: No built-in swap function?
References: <xpZ9c.34394$tY6.1016188@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>
	<000201c42764$5f43d3b0$0000fea9@simonxp>
Message-ID: <c66aj7$f69$1@sea.gmane.org>


"Simon Wittber" <drconrad at metaplay.com.au> wrote in message
news:000201c42764$5f43d3b0$0000fea9 at simonxp...
> And received the following output:
> 1 million tuple swaps in 1.78324228359 seconds.
> 1 million temp swaps in 1.53032270861 seconds.
> 1 million xor swaps in 2.17933312753 seconds.
>
> Interestingly, using psyco.full() produced these results:
> 1 million tuple swaps in 3.06005958858 seconds.
> 1 million temp swaps in 3.01621882111 seconds.
> 1 million xor swaps in 3.03376686143 seconds.

I *suspect* that what this means is that Psyco adds about 50% to function
call overhead due checking types to determine which specilized
machine-coded version to call.  With any substantial optimizable
computation done within the function, this is still a net win, but not when
the function body is trivial.

Terry J. Reedy






From peter at engcorp.com  Wed Apr 28 08:54:09 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Wed, 28 Apr 2004 08:54:09 -0400
Subject: CPU usage of Python interpreter doing empty while loop under XP
In-Reply-To: <c6ntjq$ecnal$1@ID-180326.news.uni-berlin.de>
References: <c6kogu$cvgah$1@ID-180326.news.uni-berlin.de>
	<7kpr805ou6g8ucm9rok4nodkolcp02viig@4ax.com>
	<c6l61u$d0o8n$1@ID-180326.news.uni-berlin.de>
	<sZSdne1DBrSe2BPdRVn-sQ@powergate.ca>
	<c6m2e8$dhqd7$1@ID-180326.news.uni-berlin.de>
	<8cidnWQfWLreOBPd4p2dnA@powergate.ca>
	<c6ntjq$ecnal$1@ID-180326.news.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <cM-dndFYm-zvNBLd4p2dnA@powergate.ca>

Jon Perez wrote:

> I would be able to use pdb if Console allowed you to separate 
> the screen buffer for the program output with that of the command 
> line from which you invoked said program (where the error messages
> and pdb output should go to), but there doesn't seem to be a way 
> to do that.

There are a variety of ways to get remote debugging and
remote interpreter prompts, some supported by the standard
library modules (such as the cmd module).  I also note
in the pdb module documentation that the Pdb class itself
is explicitly extensible, suggesting you could rather
easily extend it to support external interfaces other than
the local console.  And a quick Google search suggests that
the functionality you needed was added (probably using the
time machine again) around last August:

http://mail.python.org/pipermail/patches/2003-August/013227.html

(Probably your current approach will suffice for now, but
consider this for the next time, as it will give you
significantly enhanced debugging abilities, including the
possibly useful ability to launch a debugger prompt
as soon as an exception is raised, right where the exception
is caught.)

-Peter


From Mike at DeleteThis.Geary.com  Sat Apr 17 13:09:58 2004
From: Mike at DeleteThis.Geary.com (Michael Geary)
Date: Sat, 17 Apr 2004 10:09:58 -0700
Subject: os.path.dirname adds unremoveable spaces?
References: <Xns94CE7B19D78E7nonenonecom@24.93.43.119>
	<Xns94CE7B9BFCB8Cnonenonecom@24.93.43.121>
Message-ID: <1082p776qr29u07@corp.supernews.com>

> > ####################################
> > import os, string
> > for root, dirs, files in os.walk('/home/_Comedy'):
> >         for file in files:
> >                 str = os.path.dirname(file)
> >                 print root, str.strip(), "/", file.strip()
> >
> > ####################################
> > The problem is that even after using strip(), it still prints a list
> > like this:
> >
> >
> > /home/_Comedy/ISIRTA  / ISIRTA - 1966.03.28 - s02e03 - Ali Baba.mp3
> > /home/_Comedy/ISIRTA  / ISIRTA - 1966.04.04 - s02e04 - Nelson.mp3
> > /home/_Comedy/ISIRTA  / ISIRTA - 1966.04.18 - s02e06 - Angus Prune.mp3
> >
> >                        ^^^^^
> >                                ^^^^^
> > I can't remove these mystery spaces that I'm pointing to no matter
> > what I try.  Neither the directories or filenames have spaces before
> > or after them.  Even if they did, they should've been removed when I
> > used the strip command.

> And just as expected, after an hour of searching google groups for an
> answer, I post the question only to figure it out 10 seconds later.
> Sheesh!
>
> I used os.path.join and all is well.

Just to add a couple of notes... You probably shouldn't be using the strip()
function at all. What if the directory or filename does have leading or
trailing spaces? Presumably you would want to keep those when constructing a
full path.

Also, you did figure out that it was the print statement adding the spaces,
right? Try this test:

print 'one', '/', 'two'

and compare the results with this:

print '%s/%s' %( 'one', 'two' )

In the second example, you're giving a single argument to the print
statement, a string that you've already formatted with the % operator.

os.path.join is better for dealing with file paths, of course, but this will
be useful for other things you might want to concatenate and format.

-Mike




From jepler at unpythonic.net  Wed Apr  7 20:19:20 2004
From: jepler at unpythonic.net (Jeff Epler)
Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2004 19:19:20 -0500
Subject: Are line continuations needed?
In-Reply-To: <407409ef.82801353@news.eircom.net>
References: <407409ef.82801353@news.eircom.net>
Message-ID: <20040408001920.GC2521@unpythonic.net>

I would not miss \-continuations much.

I think you're mistaken about continuations "automatically with an
incomplete infix operator":
>>> 1 + 
  File "<stdin>", line 1
    1 + 
       ^
Did I misunderstand what you meant?

I would sorely miss lines continued due to the presence of nesting
expressions, like
    d = {
        'x': 1,
        'y': 2
    }
and
    if (x == 3
      and y == x * 4):
        return True
These kinds of continued lines are IMO easier to get right than
\-continuations, because those rely on absence of whitespace in a place
where the presence rarely makes a visible difference (backslash space
newline is not a continuation).

Jeff



From mhammond at keypoint.com.au  Tue Apr 27 19:31:09 2004
From: mhammond at keypoint.com.au (Mark Hammond)
Date: Wed, 28 Apr 2004 09:31:09 +1000
Subject: MS COM early and late binding
In-Reply-To: <9e5ea2c4.0404271039.2da829b5@posting.google.com>
References: <9e5ea2c4.0404271039.2da829b5@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <c6mqg8$1q59$1@arachne.labyrinth.net.au>

Olaf Meding wrote:

> Is there a way to find out if I am using early or late binding given
> the reference ("excel" in the example below) returned by Dispatch()?
> 
> 
>>>>import win32com.client
>>>>excel = win32com.client.Dispatch('Excel.Application')

There is no great way to find out (other than looking at the repr() of 
the object or trying Thomas's trick), but there is a way to force one or 
the other.

excel = win32com.client.gencache.EnsureDispatch(excel)

Will ensure you have early bound, executing makepy if necessary.

excel = win32com.client.dynamic.DumbDispatch(excel)

Will force late bound, even if the object is currently early.

Mark.


From martin at v.loewis.de  Sun Apr 11 18:39:25 2004
From: martin at v.loewis.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?=22Martin_v=2E_L=F6wis=22?=)
Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2004 00:39:25 +0200
Subject: accept xml instead of plain Python text?
In-Reply-To: <107jc0h6r5c3g3d@corp.supernews.com>
References: <107jc0h6r5c3g3d@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <c5chen$udk$00$1@news.t-online.com>

Edward K. Ream wrote:
> I am wondering whether that has been any discussion of a project like the
> following in the Python world:
> 
> - jezix http://www.tel.fer.hr/users/mtopol/jezix/
> - javaml http://sourceforge.net/projects/javaml/
> 
> The general idea is that it would sometimes be nice to be able to feed xml
> to the Python parser instead of plain text.

This comes up every now and then on the XML SIG, and the responses are
typically reserved. I tend to respond with two observations:
1. What advantage would you get?
2. How exactly should the XML look like? The simplest approach I can
    think of is

<python>
def test():
     """Test this module.

     A hodge podge of tests collected here, because they have too many
     external dependencies for the regular test suite.
     """

     import sys
     import getopt
     opts, args = getopt.getopt(sys.argv[1:], 'd')
     dl = 0
     for o, a in opts:
         if o == '-d': dl = dl + 1
     host = 'www.python.org'
</python>

Nice XML; if you use CDATA sections, you don't even need to markup
less-than characters.

Regards,
Martin



From me at privacy.net  Sat Apr 24 04:19:45 2004
From: me at privacy.net (anon)
Date: Sat, 24 Apr 2004 08:19:45 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Opening MS Word files via Python
In-Reply-To: <7b454334.0404232043.32e95cf1@posting.google.com>
References: <7b454334.0404201628.371b9e8@posting.google.com>
	<i7-dnZNwpJ8TfhjdRVn-jg@adelphia.com>
	<3d06fae9.0404210536.3f277a37@posting.google.com>
	<7b454334.0404232043.32e95cf1@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <c6d7v0$mkk$2@titan.btinternet.com>

Fazer wrote...

> jmdeschamps at cvm.qc.ca (jmdeschamps) wrote in message news:<3d06fae9.0404210536.3f277a37 at posting.google.com>...
> 
>>Rob Nikander <rnikaREMOVEnder at adelphia.net> wrote in message news:<i7-dnZNwpJ8TfhjdRVn-jg at adelphia.com>...
<snip>
>>>
>>>But I don't know the best way to find out the methods and properties of 
>>>the "word" object.
>>>
<snip>
> 
> How would I save something in word format? I am guessing
> MSWord.Docments.Save(myWordDoc) or around those lines?  where can I
> find more documentatin?  Thanks.



Open MS Word and press (ALT + F11), then F2







From jean-michel.caricand at laposte.net  Fri Apr  9 01:04:56 2004
From: jean-michel.caricand at laposte.net (Jean-Michel Caricand)
Date: Fri, 09 Apr 2004 07:04:56 +0200
Subject: Function args
Message-ID: <sdqdc.37060$zm5.15866@nntpserver.swip.net>

Hi,

I'm new in Python. I have a problem with function args. I want to pass 
args by reference because the function must modify this arg. How I do 
that in Python.

I didn't found documentation !


From pit.grinja at gmx.de  Sun Apr  4 03:53:44 2004
From: pit.grinja at gmx.de (Piet)
Date: 3 Apr 2004 23:53:44 -0800
Subject: Recursively expand all branches ox wxTreeCtrl
Message-ID: <39cbe663.0404032353.6944c9fe@posting.google.com>

Hi there.
I have a problem when working with a wxTreeCtrl. I would like to
expand all branches of a sepcific position in a tree with a single
command. Since there does not appear to be such a command, I tried to
write my own recursive function. Here is the code snippet:
    def OnPopup1(self,event):
        item = self.Tree.GetSelection()
        self.parent.msgbox(self,self.Tree.GetItemText(item),"Kein
Titel",wxOK)
        #self.Tree.Expand(item)
        self.ExpandCompleteBranch(self.Tree,item,0)

    def ExpandCompleteBranch(self,tree,treeitem,cookie):
        self.parent.msgbox(self,"Durchlauf "+str(cookie),"Kein
Titel",wxOK)
        if tree.ItemHasChildren(treeitem):
            lastchild = tree.GetLastChild(treeitem)
            tree.Expand(treeitem)
            (child,cookie) = tree.GetFirstChild(treeitem,cookie)
            self.ExpandCompleteBranch(tree,child,cookie+1)
            while child != lastchild:
                cookie = cookie +1
                (child,cookie) = tree.GetNextChild(treeitem,cookie)
                self.ExpandCompleteBranch(tree,child,cookie+1)
Don?t worry aout the self.parent.msgbox-function. This just calls the
wxMessageDialog, gets the GetModal and closes the dialog. The
msgbox-function works fine but the recursive complete branch expanding
does not. When ativating the function, I first get the value "0" in
the MEssageDialog, then the selected node is expanded, then I get a
very high number (> 4 million), then the first child of the originally
selected node is expanded, I get a very high value again  in the
cookie-MessageDialog, and then I get only MessageDialogs with the
value "1", and nothing happens to the tree.
Can anybody help. I think that the error lies in the assignment of the
values for the cookies, but I don?t know how these things work.
Can anybody help?


From fredrik at pythonware.com  Thu Apr 29 14:20:02 2004
From: fredrik at pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Thu, 29 Apr 2004 20:20:02 +0200
Subject: python 2.3's lambda behaves old fashioned
References: <c6r3qo$1574k$1@hades.rz.uni-saarland.de>
Message-ID: <c6rgvk$2l5$1@sea.gmane.org>

Uwe Schmitt wrote:

> I just tried (Python 2.3)
>
>     li = [ lambda x: x*a for a in range(10) ]
>
> which results in
>
>     li[0](1) = 9
>     ...
>     li[9](1) = 9
>
> In order to achieve the intended result I had to fall back on the
> following trick:
>
>     li = [ lambda x,a=a: x*a for a in range(10)]
>
> which leads to the expected result.
>
> Any explanations ???

repeat after me:

free variables bind to names, default arguments bind to objects.
free variables bind to names, default arguments bind to objects.
free variables bind to names, default arguments bind to objects.
(etc)

</F>






From vineet at eswap.com  Sun Apr  4 19:26:30 2004
From: vineet at eswap.com (Vineet Jain)
Date: Sun, 4 Apr 2004 19:26:30 -0400
Subject: How to assign a default constant value in a function declaration
Message-ID: <KPENJIMKHJPNKOLFIHBNGEAGCGAA.vineet@eswap.com>

The following does not work although it seems like something you should be
able to do.

def someFunction(option=Constants.DEFAULT_VALUE):

Thanks,

V







From NAIGIMSESRIMAIL at gims.com  Thu Apr  1 10:14:48 2004
From: NAIGIMSESRIMAIL at gims.com (GroupShield for Exchange (ESRIMAIL))
Date: Thu, 1 Apr 2004 17:14:48 +0200 
Subject: ALERT -  GroupShield ticket number OB77_1080832483_ESRIMAIL_3 was
	generated
Message-ID: <B06B8FEF47ACD7119E720040F428459102124D2E@ESRIMAIL>

Action Taken:
The message was blocked because of its subject.

To:
python-list at python.org <python-list at python.org>

From:
Peter Maas <fpetermaas at netscape.net>

Sent:
257586048,29628412

Subject:
Re: test for nan

Attachment Details:-

Attachment Name: N/A
File: Infected.msg
Infected? No
Repaired? No
Blocked? Yes
Deleted? No
Virus Name: 



	
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From tjreedy at udel.edu  Mon Apr 12 16:46:38 2004
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2004 16:46:38 -0400
Subject: String + number split
References: <2SAec.70005$Id.6002@news-binary.blueyonder.co.uk><mfydnfKTtqtWRufdRVn-uQ@powergate.ca>
	<c5epc8$1scu$1@news.wplus.net>
Message-ID: <c5ev79$prk$1@sea.gmane.org>


"Stevie_mac" <no.email at please.com> wrote in message
news:c5epc8$1scu$1 at news.wplus.net...
> Heres my solution...

If I did not feel like looking up how to do the split with regular
expressions, as others have suggested,  I would scan the string in reverse
with 'for i in range(len(s)-1, -1, -1)'  instead of reversing the string.
Then slice.

tjr






From nnsvfuca at mmrtetca.com  Sun Apr 11 04:18:50 2004
From: nnsvfuca at mmrtetca.com (Datatec)
Date: Sun, 11 Apr 2004 16:18:50 +0800
Subject: Earn extra cash in your pyjamas!
Message-ID: <40790014$0$1990$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au>

Dear readers,

For the past month I have enjoyed sitting at home partakeing in online surveys.
I was very scepticle when I first started but it has actually turned out to be
an excellent way of making a nice sum of money. The companies paid me $5-$75
to fill out each survey from a list. Their focus groups paid up to $150 for an
hour of my time, which was awesome! It's a great way to make extra cash and
fun at the same time!

For more info go to:  http://hop.clickbank.net/?datatec/surveysc

Regards,

Jonathan Davies








From alloydflanagan at comcast.net  Fri Apr 30 09:40:17 2004
From: alloydflanagan at comcast.net (A. Lloyd Flanagan)
Date: 30 Apr 2004 06:40:17 -0700
Subject: Feedback on Sets, and Partitions
References: <mailman.136.1083282936.25742.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <e838aa6e.0404300540.3ced529a@posting.google.com>

"Steve" <humean at fea.st> wrote in message news:<mailman.136.1083282936.25742.python-list at python.org>...
> Another unintutive feature is that there can be multiple sets with the
> same members. I.e., you can have sets A and B such that "A == B" is true
> and "A is B" is false. I would like more information on the reasons for
> this choice and whether there would be anything to gain or lose by having
> "A == B" entail "A is B".
> 

I can't speak for the designers, but I think there's two problems with
A == B => A is B.  One, none of the other sequences behave that way. 
Two (and this is the real killer) I think it would be tough to
implement.
A = Set([1, 2, 3])
B = Set([1, 2])
#A is B clearly false, as is A==B
B.add(3)
#Now A==B is true

After every alteration of a set, such as the add() above, you'd have
to do an exhaustive comparison of every other set for equality.  Then
you'd do something like B = A to drop the old B set and set up another
reference to A.  Then if you altered B and not A, you'd have to do
something like copy A, make the change, and assign the result to B.

Problem with that is, it breaks the case where you want A and B to be
pointing to a single set which is modified so that A and B change. 
The most common case would be passing a Set to a subroutine.

So I just don't think it's feasible.


From tim.one at comcast.net  Wed Apr 21 12:33:32 2004
From: tim.one at comcast.net (Tim Peters)
Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2004 12:33:32 -0400
Subject: Dollar sign ($) on foriegn keyboards? (prothon)
In-Reply-To: <c665ct$vkl$1@sea.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCKELIKGAB.tim.one@comcast.net>

...

[Mark Hahn]
>> When I posted my first Prothon messages, I asked if I should stay
>> away from c.l.p. out of courtesy.  I was specifically told to hang
>> around here by several of the top Pythoneers

[/F]
> strangely enough, I don't see any top Pythoneers contributing to the
> Prothon threads.  who are they?

I invited Mark to hang out here, and still do:  Prothon is trying some
design decisions that are very hard to try in CPython now, and how they turn
out is interesting to me.  I'm not personally interested in the dollar-sign
thread, but then any given person is highly unlikely to be interested in
most threads at any given time -- it's a newsgroup.

> when I posted my message, 25 of 48 messages visible in my newsreader
> were Prothon-related.

Which proves what?  That slightly over half of c.l.py contributors are more
interested in Prothon than in all other topics currently discussed here
combined <wink>?  c.l.py is what the posters make it, and Mark has been a
good citizen here.




From jjl at pobox.com  Thu Apr 29 15:11:49 2004
From: jjl at pobox.com (John J. Lee)
Date: 29 Apr 2004 20:11:49 +0100
Subject: MATLAB2Python
References: <D2Xjc.28117$Qc.1080799@twister1.libero.it>
	<3064b51d.0404290654.58e59124@posting.google.com>
	<ocednUUxqajZhwzdRVn-vw@powergate.ca>
Message-ID: <87oepa61l6.fsf@pobox.com>

Peter Hansen <peter at engcorp.com> writes:

> beliavsky at aol.com wrote:
> 
> > The Fortran standards committee takes
> > backwards compatibility much more seriously, so that code you write
> > now will not take on a new meaning in future versions of the language.
> 
> This is an unfair characterization.  They most certainly take
> backwards compatibility *seriously*, but perhaps they put a
> higher value on making changes that, in their opinion, make
> significant improvements to the language, or fix serious
> mistakes they made in the original.

Yeah.  I was initially shocked that they'd even consider such a
change, but I was persuaded that a) it was significantly useful, b) it
was taken after very careful consideration of what the Right Thing
was, c) it's not as scary a change as it looks.


> Maybe that's a reason
> that Python is being adopted more, while FORTRAN growth is, uh,
> somewhat flat.
[...]

I was going to claim that's a weak point: Fortran growth is flat
because everyone who could benefit from a fast, numerical
analysis-friendly compiler is already using Fortran.  On reflection,
though, I guess that's not true: there are a lot of people using
languages like C++ to write this sort of numerical code.  Swapping
Fortran for C++ certainly seems a questionable decision now: keep the
Fortran, and add some Python.


John


From greg at cosc.canterbury.ac.nz  Sun Apr 25 22:39:15 2004
From: greg at cosc.canterbury.ac.nz (Greg Ewing)
Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2004 14:39:15 +1200
Subject: Why we will use obj$func() often
In-Reply-To: <sXcic.28630$dZ1.20194@fed1read04>
References: <d2Uhc.22272$dZ1.1600@fed1read04><84Uhc.22278$dZ1.5087@fed1read04>	<mailman.927.1082665370.20120.python-list@python.org><8AWhc.23114$dZ1.11070@fed1read04>	<mailman.939.1082697809.20120.python-list@python.org><no4ic.26268$dZ1.11413@fed1read04>
	<mailman.948.1082710758.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<sXcic.28630$dZ1.20194@fed1read04>
Message-ID: <c6hsol$bkaiv$1@ID-169208.news.uni-berlin.de>

Mark Hahn wrote:
> Well I have a problem now.  I gave people on my mailing list a choice
> between $var, `var, ~var,  and ^var.  The current tally is four votes for
> $var and none for any of the others.  According to your criteria, $var is
> the worst and ~var should be the best.  Am I correct?

Not necessarily. It can be very hard to analyse these sorts
of things, since people who have an opinion tend to know what
appeals to them and what doesn't, but not why. The pattern
recognition processess involved seem to happen in a part of
the brain that's not accessible to introspection.

My feeling is that ` and ~ are too inconspicuous, $ is
too conspicuous, and ^ has the wrong sort of connotations
(it looks like it's pointing to something somewhere else,
rather than at "myself").

-- 
Greg Ewing, Computer Science Dept,
University of Canterbury,	
Christchurch, New Zealand
http://www.cosc.canterbury.ac.nz/~greg



From tjreedy at udel.edu  Thu Apr 22 20:57:13 2004
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2004 20:57:13 -0400
Subject: AOP use cases
References: <84fc4588.0404140106.3fa0c55@posting.google.com><slrnc7q1ss.1aa.alf@largo.fayauffre.org><cb035744.0404141130.170f51c4@posting.google.com><slrnc7sgat.vp.alf@largo.fayauffre.org><cb035744.0404160442.2f0b1661@posting.google.com><0pydnSB4WYuieuLdRVn-hQ@powergate.ca><tyfbrlkv3ae.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch><XYmdnVLB9rjbARrdRVn-vg@powergate.ca><tyf7jw8utoo.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch><c68fj5$7bt$1@news1.wdf.sap-ag.de><tyfvfjst2k9.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
	<tyffzav62ux.fsf@lxplus054.cern.ch>
Message-ID: <c69pl2$ij1$1@sea.gmane.org>


"Jacek Generowicz" <jacek.generowicz at cern.ch> wrote in message
news:tyffzav62ux.fsf at lxplus054.cern.ch...
> Jacek Generowicz <jacek.generowicz at cern.ch> writes:
> # Mix concerns of calculating Fibonnaci numbers, and avoiding
> # recalculating the same answer repeatedly
>
> def fib(n):
>     if n<2: return 1
>     try:
>         return fib.cache[n]
>     except KeyError:
>         return fib.cache.setdefault(n, fib(n-1)+fib(n-2))
> fib.cache = {}
###############################################################
>
> # Deal with avoiding recalculating the same answer repeatedly
> def memoize(fn):
>     cache = {}
>     def proxy(*args):
>         try:
>             return cache[args]
>         except KeyError:
>             return cache.setdefault(args, fn(*args))
>     return proxy
>
> # Deal with calculating Fibonnaci numbers
def fib(n):
    if n<2: return 1
    return fib(n-1) + fib(n-2)
>
> # Weave
> fib = memoize(fib)

The funny thing about this example is that its success critically depends
on fib *not* being 'optimized' by having the recursive calls being either
compiled as or replaced by (as with Hettinger's recent proposal) efficient
local calls.

In my opinion, functions defined on counts (0, 1, 2,...) are better
memoized with a list.  For instance:

def listify(f_of_n):
   cache = []
   maxstored = [-1]
   def proxy(n):
      maxn = maxstored[0]
      while n > maxn:
         maxn += 1
         cache.append(f_of_n(maxn))
      maxstored[0] = maxn
      return cache[n]
   return proxy

>>> fib2= listify(fib)
>>> fib2(5)
8
>>> fib2(15)
987

Hmmm.  When I started this reply, I was going to emphasize that 'separating
concerns' is much less efficient than more directly writing

def fibinit():
   cache = [1, 1]
   maxstored = [len(cache) -1]
   def _fib(n):
      maxn = maxstored[0]
      while n > maxn:
         maxn += 1
         cache.append(cache[maxn-2] + cache[maxn-1])
      maxstored[0] = maxn
      return cache[n]
   return _fib

fib = fibinit()
>>> fib(5)
8
>>> fib(15)
987

which is true - there is a lot of fluff in having the proxy update loop
repeatedly call itself twice to look up the cache values after unnecessary
testing to see if the cache has the needed values.  It is definitely faster
to look them up directly.  On the other hand, having written and modified
listify, and thinking of possible edits, or even making it a class, I can
see the point of having it cleanly separated from the function definition.

Terry J. Reedy






From fumanchu at amor.org  Thu Apr  1 14:25:13 2004
From: fumanchu at amor.org (Robert Brewer)
Date: Thu, 1 Apr 2004 11:25:13 -0800
Subject: splitting one dictionary into two
Message-ID: <DE1CF2B4FEC4A342BF62B6B2B334601E561F9B@opus.amorhq.net>

Peter Otten wrote:
> I suggest that you rerun your timings with the above 
> modifications and a
> dictionary of size EXPECTED_LEN.
> I've got a hunch I caught you cheating :-)

D'oh! True, true. I neglected the fact that the dict got mutated (in all
cases!). Having fixed that, the order is:

for a 100-value dict: you, wes, me
for a 1000000-value dict: you, me, wes (by a factor of 5)

Sometimes I really hate timeit. :D


Robert Brewer
MIS
Amor Ministries
fumanchu at amor.org



From eastier at free.fr  Thu Apr 22 05:12:27 2004
From: eastier at free.fr (Emmanuel)
Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2004 11:12:27 +0200
Subject: Generator inside a class prevent __del__ ??
References: <4085BA96.651D2E4A@free.fr>
	<mailman.819.1082507351.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<40866ECD.A45758B9@free.fr>
	<mailman.885.1082588262.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<4087031A.AEB67C72@free.fr>
	<mailman.890.1082593651.20120.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <40878C7B.CB13F2F5@free.fr>



Andrew Bennetts a ?crit :

> On Thu, Apr 22, 2004 at 01:26:18AM +0200, Emmanuel wrote:
> >
> >
> > Andrew Bennetts a ?crit :
> >
> > > On Wed, Apr 21, 2004 at 02:53:33PM +0200, Emmanuel wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Trouble is, I _would_ like not to care about the lifetime of the object, and I
> > > > don't know where it will be destroyed.
> > >
> > > Then don't use __del__.  Python can and will automatically collect cycles
> > > when the objects *don't* define __del__ methods.
> > >
> > > Out of curiousity, why are you defining __del__ anyway?
> > >
> > > -Andrew.
> >
> > I don't want to use __del__, but I suspected I had an issue with the destruction of
> > my objects, and used a log in __del__ to monitor the destruction.
>
> Except that __del__ affects how they are destructed :)
>
> Weakrefs are probably a better choice for this, as they don't interfere with
> the lifecycle of the object you're interested in, unlike __del__.
>
> > But defining __del__ has also a lot of valuable utilisation, or so I think...
>
> It's only very very rarely useful, in my experience.  Again, weakrefs are
> probably more useful for what you have in mind.
>
> -Andrew.

Ok, I think I don't understand anything anymore...

I thought __del__ was the destructor of the object, like the object::~object in C++ ( my
experience in programming is mainly from C++ ), and so __del__ shouldn't affect when they
are destructed.
And I thought weakref is a way to control the lifetime, ie when the ref count is
decremented, and when to call __del__.

>From what you ( and others ) are saying, I'm proven wrong...

Do you know where I can find more information, beside python doc ?

Thanks,

Emmanuel




From tundra at tundraware.com  Wed Apr 28 00:09:23 2004
From: tundra at tundraware.com (Tim Daneliuk)
Date: 28 Apr 2004 00:09:23 EDT
Subject: [ANN] 'tconfpy' 1.184 Released
Message-ID: <2bn3m1-qn31.ln1@eskimo.tundraware.com>

'tconfpy' 1.184 is released and available at:

         http://www.tundraware.com/Software/tconfpy/

The last public release was 1.181 on 4/24/2004

(Sorry for two announcements in three days, but, a last minute feature
snuck in.  Barring bugs, this should be it for a while ...)

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

This version implements "Variable Templates" which have all manner of
interesting applications, not the least of which is using 'tconfpy'
as a component for building data validation tools.

This version also provides a new API option, 'ReturnPredefs' which
allows the programmer request that the parser not return internal
"predefined" variables in the final symbol table.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

'tconfpy' is an advanced configuration file parser and validator for
Python programs.  By using 'tconfpy', Python programmers can provide
their users with an external configuration file for setting program
options, defining defaults, and so on.  'tconfpy' offloads the
responsibility for parsing and validating a configuration file from
the main application. The Python programmer need only deal
with the results and any errors or warnings generated during the
parsing process.

'tconfpy' recognizes a rich configuration language and provides a
number of sophisticated programming features including:

     - The ability to breakup large configurations into smaller pieces
       via the '.include' directive.

     - Support for string substitution and concatenation throughout the
       configuration file via string variables.  Variables may be
       locally declared, a reference to a symbol already in the
       symbol table, or a reference to an environment variable.

     - A complete set of conditional directives for selective
       processing of configuration options. Both existential ("If
       variable exists ...") and comparison ("if string equals/does not
       equal string ...") forms are provided, as is an '.else'
       directive.

     - The ability to instantiate program options prior to reading a
       configuration file and make them mandatory by declaring those
       options as Read-Only.

     - Optional type validation to ensure that a user enters a value
       appropriate for boolean, integer, floating point, string, or
       complex data.

     - Optional value validation to ensure that a configuration option
       is either within a specified range or one of an enumerated set
       of possible values.  For configuration options which are string
       types, 'tconfpy', can optionally specify min/max string lengths
       and enumerate a set of legitimate regular expressions that the
       string must match.

     - The ability to define an arbitrary number of lexical namespaces.

     - The ability to use the various features of 'tconfpy' as a pre-
       processor for any other text (including source code for other
       programming languages and Python itself) via the '.literal'
       directive.

     - The ability to "template" classes of variables, thereby predefining
       the type and value restrictions for such variables.  This makes
       'tconfpy' useful as a building block for data validation tools.

     - An optional debug capability which returns detailed information
       about each line parsed.

     - Includes a test driver program for learning how to program with
       'tconfpy' and for debugging and testing your own configuration
       files.

     - Comes with approximately 40 pages of documentation including a
       Programmer's API Reference and a User's Guide to the 'tconfpy'
       configuration language.  Documentation is provided in several
       formats including Unix 'man', Plain Text, html, pdf, and
       Postscript.

'tconfpy' is a Pure Python module and is platform-independent.
It should work identically on any platform on which Python runs.
-- 
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Tim Daneliuk     tundra at tundraware.com
PGP Key:         http://www.tundraware.com/PGP/


From bnetNOSPAM at ifrance.com  Fri Apr 30 01:54:47 2004
From: bnetNOSPAM at ifrance.com (=?iso-8859-1?q?Beno=EEt_Dejean?=)
Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2004 07:54:47 +0200
Subject: operator double() surprise in cxx
References: <mailman.145.1083293891.25742.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <pan.2004.04.30.05.54.47.953852@ifrance.com>

Le Thu, 29 Apr 2004 21:35:51 -0500, John Hunter a ?crit?:

> 
> I am using pycxx 5.2.2 to generate some extension code.  I want to
> extract some doubles from some python sequences
> 
> When I do
> 
>   double l( Py::Float(rect[0]) ); 
>   double b( Py::Float(rect[1]) ); 

everything that looks/tastes/sounds like a function declaration is (even
with parameters.



From herrn at gmx.net  Sun Apr  4 12:37:19 2004
From: herrn at gmx.net (Marco Herrn)
Date: 4 Apr 2004 16:37:19 GMT
Subject: __import__() with packages
References: <c4p3f2$2j1tnb$1@ID-165840.news.uni-berlin.de>
	<1070cph9hedq9ee@news.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <c4pdjv$2lnh1i$1@ID-165840.news.uni-berlin.de>

On 2004-04-04, John Roth <newsgroups at jhrothjr.com> wrote:
> m = __import__("spam.eggs")
> eggs = spam.eggs
>
> This will probably also work:
>
> eggs = __import__("spam.eggs").eggs

Thanks,
but in my application I read the names of the modules from a file,
so I do not know them when writing (in this case I wouldn't know the
name 'eggs'). Since 
-- 
Marco Herrn             herrn at gmx.net
(GnuPG/PGP-signed and crypted mail preferred)
Key ID: 0x94620736



From claird at lairds.com  Wed Apr 21 07:46:48 2004
From: claird at lairds.com (Cameron Laird)
Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2004 11:46:48 -0000
Subject: Python GUI wrapper for a long operation
References: <de21d442.0404142156.2b9f7ef0@posting.google.com>
	<9396ba6f.0404160520.364699c4@posting.google.com>
	<de21d442.0404201902.429a6b22@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <108cnp89aedqp82@corp.supernews.com>

In article <de21d442.0404201902.429a6b22 at posting.google.com>,
Oleg Paraschenko <usenet at datahansa.com> wrote:
>Hello Stewart,
>
>stewart at midwinter.ca (Stewart Midwinter) wrote in message
>news:<9396ba6f.0404160520.364699c4 at posting.google.com>...
>> good stuff!
>> 
>> I'll study your app for some clues for my own situation. I want to
>> continually get data from a remote server, and then graph values that
>> I have received, probably using Tkinter canvas widget.  Understanding
>> threads will be helpful for me, so I'll study how you used threads in
>> your app.
>
>  I hope that the app will help you. Please beware that
>documentation describes how things are done, but does not explain
>why. It is so because some advanceed knowledge is assumed:
>
>* threads,
>* master-view-controller pattern (it is partially used in the code),
>* logging in a log4j style.
>
>> You may want to post your idea on the tkinter mailing list
			.
			.
			.
Note that it's not necessary to belong to the tkinter mailing list,
to post there (although the administrator has been *very* slow dur-
ing the last week about approving legitimate posts).

Also note that, under at least some circumstances, it is also *not*
necessary to rely on threads to keep a Tkinter GUI "live" during
long-running operations.  For now, I assert this without demonstra-
tion, simply because I can't make the time immediately to write up
a comprehensible and simple example.
-- 

Cameron Laird <claird at phaseit.net>
Business:  http://www.Phaseit.net


From nazgul71 at raketnet.nl  Fri Apr  9 07:26:50 2004
From: nazgul71 at raketnet.nl (Jan)
Date: Fri, 9 Apr 2004 13:26:50 +0200
Subject: days, GUARANTEED- RETRACTION..PLEASE READ
Message-ID: <c567q4$miv$360@news5.tilbu1.nb.home.nl>


do not respond to my earlier post

  not send me anything

 do not follow any of the directions on

that erroneous post

 I thought it would be "funny"...I do not want any money, mail

(email or otherwise)

 Please realize that this is illegal and

respect my wishes to not receive any

 mail (i get enough crap in the mail

already)

 I apologize for the post and any trouble

it might have caused, if I could

 retract it I would !


 Best







From usenet at microtonal.co.uk  Thu Apr  8 06:26:42 2004
From: usenet at microtonal.co.uk (Graham Breed)
Date: Thu, 08 Apr 2004 11:26:42 +0100
Subject: Are line continuations needed?
In-Reply-To: <Xns94C5601A46236duncanrcpcouk@127.0.0.1>
References: <mailman.418.1081348606.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<1078dq6i93pc12d@news.supernews.com>
	<1078skqn9hgdd19@corp.supernews.com>
	<1079015hfg56i28@news.supernews.com>
	<Xns94C5601A46236duncanrcpcouk@127.0.0.1>
Message-ID: <tAadc.41947$Id.13441@news-binary.blueyonder.co.uk>

> I think that you might find there wasn't any indentation to lose. Read the 
> point more carefully and you might see he has a valid concern. Consider 
> this (none of the lines are indented):
> 
> mystring = """\
> +---------------+
> |    '"         |
> +---------------+
> """
> 
> Without a line continuation there simply isn't any way to write this string 
> and still have the box characters line up neatly.

mystring = """
+---------------+
|    '"         |
+---------------+
"""[1:]



From tim.golden at viacom-outdoor.co.uk  Fri Apr  2 07:19:48 2004
From: tim.golden at viacom-outdoor.co.uk (Tim Golden)
Date: Fri, 2 Apr 2004 13:19:48 +0100 
Subject: Apologies
Message-ID: <F1921F85572CB04D9F55B14BDC76B3E44347FE@tdi_nt9.internal.viacom-outdoor.co.uk>

>Tim Golden wrote:
>
>> Apologies to all on the last for my rampant out-of-office
>> messages. I'm using Exchange (over which I have no control), 
>> and I thought it did the right thing by list replies. 
>> 
>> I'll make sure next time.
>
>Maybe to help others who have sometimes been or will be in the
>same boat, you could explain exactly what didn't and then did
>work...?
>
>Thank you,
>-Peter [Hansen]

In fact, I'm not sure: the last few times I've been away and have
had my out-of-office turned on, none of the out-of-office replies
have come through to the list (or it's silently swallowed them, 
recognising the phenomenon). This time, from this and a couple 
of other lists, I've had people complaining, and rightly so -- 
good thing I was only away for a day-and-a-half!

I shall speak to the team who manage our Exchange Server: maybe
they've turned some switch or applied some patch. If I come up
with anything conclusive I'll report it here. The only workaround
I know of is to suspend delivery via Mailman's interface.

TJG


________________________________________________________________________
This e-mail has been scanned for all viruses by Star Internet. The
service is powered by MessageLabs. For more information on a proactive
anti-virus service working around the clock, around the globe, visit:
http://www.star.net.uk
________________________________________________________________________



From mhuening at zedat.fu-berlin.de  Thu Apr 29 05:18:23 2004
From: mhuening at zedat.fu-berlin.de (Matthias Huening)
Date: 29 Apr 2004 09:18:23 GMT
Subject: sorting a list
References: <f046efac.0403091513.3b392074@posting.google.com>
	<Xns94DA7086C66A8mhueningzedatfuberli@130.133.1.4>
Message-ID: <Xns94DA7320A3EB0mhueningzedatfuberli@130.133.1.4>

For simple lists you don't of course need locale.strcoll(a[0], b[0]).
(I just copied the function from one of my scripts where I need to sort a 
list of lists.) Sorry.


>>> locale.setlocale(locale.LC_ALL,"")
'German_Germany.1252'
>>> a = ['A', 'D', '?', 'F', 'a', 'f', '?']
>>> def sortDeutsch(a,b):
        return locale.strcoll(a, b)

>>> a.sort(sortDeutsch)
>>> a
['a', 'A', '\xe4', 'D', 'f', 'F', '\xdc']
>>> 


Matthias


From vineet at eswap.com  Sun Apr 11 23:06:29 2004
From: vineet at eswap.com (Vineet Jain)
Date: Sun, 11 Apr 2004 23:06:29 -0400
Subject: Is there a boolean(somestring) equivalent of int(somestring).
	bool('false') -> True
In-Reply-To: <20040411223514.GA30373@unpythonic.net>
Message-ID: <KPENJIMKHJPNKOLFIHBNOEKLCGAA.vineet@eswap.com>

a few small changes to your code to handle booleans passed in and convert
everython to lower case:

true_values = '1 yes true on'.split()
false_values = '0 no false off'.split()
def parse_boolean_value(s):
    if type(s) == bool: return s
    if type(s) == string: s = s.lower()
    if s in true_values: return True
    if s in false_values: return False
    raise ValueError



-----Original Message-----
From: Jeff Epler [mailto:jepler at unpythonic.net]
Sent: Sunday, April 11, 2004 5:35 PM
To: Vineet Jain
Cc: python-list at python.org
Subject: Re: Is there a boolean(somestring) equivalent of
int(somestring). bool('false') -> True


The reason that
>>> bool('false')
returns True is the same reason that
>>> not 'false'
is False:  A non-empty string, when treated as a boolean, is true.

Changing the meaning of bool() is not likely to happen.

Here's one piece of code you might try to get the behavior you desire:

true_values = '1 yes true on'.split()
false_values = '0 no false off'.split()
def parse_boolean_value(s):
    if s in true_values: return True
    if s in false_values: return False
    raise ValueError

'i in seq' is just like checking whether any item in seq is equal to i.
If seq is a dictionary or a set (or defines __contains__), this test can
be a little more efficient, but the efficiency is unlikely to matter
when there are only 4 items.

Jeff




From pyth78 at yahoo.com  Fri Apr 16 07:02:06 2004
From: pyth78 at yahoo.com (Ian Adams)
Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2004 04:02:06 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: XEmacs python mode + WxWindows => Freeze
Message-ID: <20040416110206.80142.qmail@web41404.mail.yahoo.com>

When I run the following code in the XEmacs
python command window, it freezes (I also tried
execute buffer, execute region).
 
# file wxpython.py
import threading
from wxPython.wx import wxPySimpleApp, wxFrame
app = wxPySimpleApp()
frame = wxFrame(None,-1, "Hello World")
frame.Show(1)
app.MainLoop()

 
I am running XEmacs 21.4 on WinXP, and active python 2.3.2.
The above program works fine under DOS window.
 

		
---------------------------------
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Tax Center - File online by April 15th
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From gandalf at geochemsource.com  Wed Apr 21 04:51:19 2004
From: gandalf at geochemsource.com (Gandalf)
Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2004 10:51:19 +0200
Subject: No built-in swap function?
In-Reply-To: <c656c7$7nq$1@news.service.uci.edu>
References: <mailman.822.1082526479.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<c656c7$7nq$1@news.service.uci.edu>
Message-ID: <40863607.3060506@geochemsource.com>

Josiah Carlson wrote:

>> The xorswap function is not much use for anything other than numbers,
>> however, I would have expected a psyco'ed xorSwap to much faster than
>> the alternatives!
>
>
> You are testing function calling overhead.  Try the below...
>
> import time
>
> def tupleswap(a,b):
>     t = time.time()
>     for i in xrange(100000):
>         a,b=b,a;a,b=b,a;a,b=b,a;a,b=b,a;a,b=b,a;
>         a,b=b,a;a,b=b,a;a,b=b,a;a,b=b,a;a,b=b,a;
>     print "1 million tuple swaps in", time.time()-t, "seconds."

AFAIK, this seems to be 10 thousand instead of 1 million (and 10 mil 
instead of 100 mil for
the psyco test).

  G





From drconrad at metaplay.com.au  Wed Apr 21 01:49:11 2004
From: drconrad at metaplay.com.au (Simon Wittber)
Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2004 13:49:11 +0800
Subject: No built-in swap function?
In-Reply-To: <xpZ9c.34394$tY6.1016188@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>
Message-ID: <000201c42764$5f43d3b0$0000fea9@simonxp>

For interest's sake, I wrote the following test:


import time
def tupleSwap(a,b):a,b = b,a
def tempSwap(a,b):
    t = a
    a = b
    b = t
def xorSwap(a,b):
    a ^= b
    b ^= a
    a ^= b
s = time.clock()
for i in xrange(1000000): tupleSwap(1,2)
t = time.clock() - s
print "1 million tuple swaps in", t, "seconds."
s = time.clock()
for i in xrange(1000000): tempSwap(1,2)
t = time.clock() - s
print "1 million temp swaps in", t, "seconds."
s = time.clock()
for i in xrange(1000000): xorSwap(1,2)
t = time.clock() - s
print "1 million xor swaps in", t, "seconds."


And received the following output:
1 million tuple swaps in 1.78324228359 seconds.
1 million temp swaps in 1.53032270861 seconds.
1 million xor swaps in 2.17933312753 seconds.

Interestingly, using psyco.full() produced these results:
1 million tuple swaps in 3.06005958858 seconds.
1 million temp swaps in 3.01621882111 seconds.
1 million xor swaps in 3.03376686143 seconds.

The xorswap function is not much use for anything other than numbers,
however, I would have expected a psyco'ed xorSwap to much faster than
the alternatives!

Sw.




From jeffbarish at starband.net  Mon Apr  5 14:33:41 2004
From: jeffbarish at starband.net (Jeffrey Barish)
Date: Mon, 05 Apr 2004 12:33:41 -0600
Subject: CSV ignores lineterminator
Message-ID: <c4s8q9$5vc$1@sea.gmane.org>

With

input_data = ['word1\tword2;word3\tword4;',
'word5\tword6;word7\tword8;']

and

delimiter = '\t'
lineterminator = ';'

shouldn't csv.reader(input_data, dialect='mydialect') return

['word1', 'word2']

as the first row?  I find that it doesn't matter how I set
lineterminator, csv always terminates at the end of the line returned
by the iterable object passed as its first argument (input_data, in
this case).  I must be missing something basic here.

I may be confused about the interaction between what iterable object
defines as the next row and what csv.reader defines as the next row. 
The documentation for csv says that the line returned by csv.reader can
span multiple input lines.  I assume that this would happen if the
lineterminator is defined as something other than \n, in which case
csv.reader would keep pulling in lines until it finds the
lineterminator.  This is not the behavior I am observing.

I'm using Python 2.3 on Linux 2.4.23.
-- 
Jeffrey Barish




From ajw140NO at SPAM.york.ac.uk  Thu Apr 29 18:47:55 2004
From: ajw140NO at SPAM.york.ac.uk (Andrew Wilkinson)
Date: Thu, 29 Apr 2004 23:47:55 +0100
Subject: Distutils and scripts in a non standard place
Message-ID: <c6s0mq$4h7$1@pump1.york.ac.uk>

Hi,

I've have some example scripts that I'd like to install under /usr/share
along with my documentation. Currently I'm doing this using...
 data_files=[("/usr/share/pylinda/examples/", glob.glob("examples/*.py"))]
...in my setup.py. This doesn't treat them as executable scripts however and
as such doesn't modify the #! line nor does it mark them as executable.

Is there anyway of getting distutils to do this without resorting to the
scripts command, which puts them under /usr/bin?

Thanks in advance for any help,
Andrew Wilkinson

-- 
Vegetarians eat Vegetables, BEWARE the man who claims to be a Humanitarian.




From paul at prescod.net  Sun Apr  4 23:59:54 2004
From: paul at prescod.net (Paul Prescod)
Date: Sun, 04 Apr 2004 20:59:54 -0700
Subject: Python is faster than C
In-Reply-To: <20040403223159.GA7715@vicky.ecs.soton.ac.uk>
References: <DE1CF2B4FEC4A342BF62B6B2B334601E561FAC@opus.amorhq.net>
	<20040403223159.GA7715@vicky.ecs.soton.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <4070D9BA.7020600@prescod.net>

Armin Rigo wrote:

>...
> 
> is among the easiest to optimize, even if the language specification said that
> enumerate returns a list.  I can think of several ways to do that.  For
> example, because the result of enumerate() is only ever used in a for loop, it
> knows it can internally return an iterator instead of the whole list.  There
> are some difficulties, but nothing critical.  Another option which is harder
> in CPython but which we are experimenting with in PyPy would be to return a
> Python object of type 'list' but with a different, lazy implementation.

Here's the question: given that most programmers do think about 
performance, is their mental load reduced by putting in a bunch of 
special cases that may or may not be triggered in various situations or 
by giving them a very tightly defined language feature with predictable 
performance characteristics?

For instance I sometimes program in XSLT. Its a very declarative 
language where one could imagine an amazing number of automatically 
applied optimizations. But I have no way of knowing whether my XSLT 
implementation supplies them (I seldom uses profilers in general and I 
don't believe that most XSLT implementations have profilers at all). And 
even if I did know what a particular XSLT implementation did, I wouldn't 
know whether another did it. This leaves me with a vague uneasy feeling 
that I don't know whether my code is going to blow-up when faced with 
large datasets or handle them well. Sometimes I program my XSLT in a way 
that has predictable runtime characteristics even if I know that it will 
disable the optimizer...at least I don't have to worry about getting 
worse-case behaviour either!

I prefer Python because it is more transparent.

Also, there is the question of interface simplicity versus 
implementation simplicity that is discussed here:

  * http://www.jwz.org/doc/worse-is-better.html

Python tends to err on the side of implementation simplicity. (it may 
not be a coincidence that it was an MIT guy who added nested scopes 
after Guido chose not to prioritize it over Python's first several years 
of existence)

  Paul Prescod





From max at alcyone.com  Mon Apr 26 18:40:36 2004
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2004 15:40:36 -0700
Subject: How's ruby compare to it older brother python
References: <c6ich0$c5mee$1@ID-205437.news.uni-berlin.de>
	<108pvmgl0h7m3ea@news.supernews.com> <c6jg7404m@enews4.newsguy.com>
	<108qk9dft7h7o52@corp.supernews.com>
	<c6jmhh$cr0r2$1@ID-207230.news.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <408D8FE4.95C7242@alcyone.com>

"Brandon J. Van Every" wrote:

> - Python has lotsa libraries but not everything.  Ask here regarding 
> your specific needs.  Even if Python were the most elegant language in
> the world, that's not useful if you must write everything from scratch
> and don't have time to do it.

Pay close attention to this passage; it's relevant below.

> This is the kind of information you get by simply asking people and
> reading
> lotsa archives.  Some people say "Try it yourself!" is the only way to
> learn.  They are wrong, and they often don't value people's time.

"Try it yourself" is certainly not the only way to learn, but it should
be a more than sufficient one for a self-proclaimed accomplished
programmer.  Certainly it better values other people's time in order to
do the research you can do on your own and then come to them with any
additional -- far more intelligent -- questions you might have, rather
than punting on them and expecting them to do all your research for you.

> Take a spin by the Language
> Shootouts if you want to spin your head some more.
> http://www.bagley.org/~doug/shootout/
> http://dada.perl.it/shootout/
> You need a filter of some kind for cutting down the options.

Above you say that what's most highly valued is development time
("that's not useful if you must write everything from scratch and don't
have time to do it").  So why are you referencing a shootout page that
characterizes only the speed at which programs execute, without any
information about how hard each program was to write?  You're telling
someone to value their own development time, and then pointing them to
something totally irrelevant to that point.

> I'm waiting for someone to say that my participation in this thread
> constitutes trolling.

Zzzzzzzz.

-- 
 __ Erik Max Francis && max at alcyone.com && http://www.alcyone.com/max/
/  \ San Jose, CA, USA && 37 20 N 121 53 W && AIM erikmaxfrancis
\__/ Money talks / But love is for real / And you know that
    -- Neneh Cherry


From R.Brodie at rl.ac.uk  Thu Apr 22 06:01:51 2004
From: R.Brodie at rl.ac.uk (Richard Brodie)
Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2004 11:01:51 +0100
Subject: Problem with xml.dom parser and xmlns attribute
References: <c682uu$sco$1@swifty.westend.com>
Message-ID: <c6856g$qt0@newton.cc.rl.ac.uk>


"Peter Maas" <peter.maas at mplusr.de> wrote in message news:c682uu$sco$1 at swifty.westend.com...

> but if I replace <html> by <html xmlns="http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml">

> A lot of HTML documents on Internet have this xmlns=.... Are
> they wrong or is this a PyXML bug?

If they are genuine XHTML documents, they should be well-formed XML,
so you should be able to use an XML rather than an SGML parser.

from  xml.dom.ext.reader import Sax2
r = Sax2.Reader()





From fxn at hashref.com  Thu Apr  1 05:26:34 2004
From: fxn at hashref.com (Xavier Noria)
Date: 1 Apr 2004 02:26:34 -0800
Subject: outline.el usage?
Message-ID: <31a13074.0404010226.6aba9509@posting.google.com>

A Google search here for folding Python code in Emacs pointed to
outline.el, but when I try to use some *-hide-* commands I get "Wrong
type argument: stringp, nil". The header of the file has no
introduction. What is the basic configuration for Python and what's
the basic usage?

-- fxn


From mark at prothon.org  Fri Apr 23 16:40:55 2004
From: mark at prothon.org (Mark Hahn)
Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2004 13:40:55 -0700
Subject: Why we will use obj$func() often
References: <d2Uhc.22272$dZ1.1600@fed1read04> <84Uhc.22278$dZ1.5087@fed1read04>
	<mailman.927.1082665370.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<8AWhc.23114$dZ1.11070@fed1read04> <40883BFE.B381518A@alcyone.com>
	<27_hc.23801$dZ1.2716@fed1read04> <40887145.789A2FE8@alcyone.com>
	<7cki80hj976bia36lhf9er97v073o1pqvm@4ax.com>
	<w8dic.28710$dZ1.11206@fed1read04>
	<qrsi80padudj0snprkk3l1kko5hb4p8m0o@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <rbfic.29689$dZ1.6986@fed1read04>


"David MacQuigg" <dmq at gain.com> wrote ...

> >The benefits of closures are well known.  I'll give you the canonical
> >example, but I'm sure textbooks can give you many more (by the way,
Python
> >cannot do this):
>
> Sorry for my ignorance, oh master. :>)

That's ok grasshopper :)

> >def getFunc():
> >    counter = 0
> >    def count():
> >            &counter += 1
> >            print &counter
> >    return count

> Here is how I would do it in Python:
>
> class Accumulator:
>     def __init__(self):
>         self.count = 0
>     def bump(self):
>         self.count += 1
>         print self.count

> It took me a few minutes to understand what the "closure" was doing.
> The Python code is more clear ( at least for anyone who will have to
> be working with classes anyway).  There is nothing new to learn.
>
> Functionality       = same
> Size of Source Code = same
> Transparency        = Python wins

Yes, it's a tie in this example.  There are many cases however where you are
already in a situation where you have a function and the closure is
beneficial and creating a "class" would be unneeded overhead.  I don't
really have the time to create something large enough here to demonstrate
it.  You'll just have to take my word for it (or not).

It's a tool for your toolchest and it's the kind of thing that if your not
familiar with it you'll never miss it, but once you learn it and use it a
few times you'll wonder how you ever lived without it.  Also I can drag out
the old tired argument that if the closure bothers you "you don't have to
use it".

> P.S. A sincere apology for my gibe above.  I couldn't resist. :>)

I'm sure I deserve it.





From nav+posts at bandersnatch.org  Thu Apr 22 15:43:35 2004
From: nav+posts at bandersnatch.org (Nick Vargish)
Date: 22 Apr 2004 15:43:35 -0400
Subject: How to make forums
References: <cb4342b6.0402141203.7afb55b3@posting.google.com>
	<402ed6f8$0$14898$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au>
	<cb4342b6.0402150030.2f9833ee@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <m3n053ol20.fsf@tanelorn.bandersnatch.org>

skatepunk319 at hotmail.com (Spencer) writes:

> I want to use my brain, my Python skills, the resources I have,
> creativity, etc., to make a forum. I want to learn how to solve
> things myself, and to explore the unknown.

I see an inherent contradiction here...

Nick

-- 
#  sigmask  ||  0.2  ||  20030107  ||  public domain  ||  feed this to a python
print reduce(lambda x,y:x+chr(ord(y)-1),' Ojdl!Wbshjti!=obwAcboefstobudi/psh?')


From zathras at thwackety.com  Thu Apr 29 18:17:01 2004
From: zathras at thwackety.com (Michael Sparks)
Date: Thu, 29 Apr 2004 23:17:01 +0100 (BST)
Subject: Closures
In-Reply-To: <20040429210402.GA7316@burma.localdomain>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0404292315080.3857-100000@pingu.thwackety.com>

On Thu, 29 Apr 2004, Gustavo Niemeyer wrote:

> class Closure:
>     def __init__(self):
>         self.__dict__ = sys._getframe().f_back.f_locals

Out of interest how portable is this? Strikes me as extremely useful
class to have lying around :) The only thing that makes me wonder is the
access to _getframe...


Michael




From Scott.Daniels at Acm.Org  Mon Apr  5 13:50:39 2004
From: Scott.Daniels at Acm.Org (Scott David Daniels)
Date: Mon, 05 Apr 2004 10:50:39 -0700
Subject: How to assign a default constant value in a function declaration
In-Reply-To: <40716899$1@news.vo.lu>
References: <mailman.341.1081121191.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<Xns94C252B3C74BBrzed@63.223.5.95> <40716899$1@news.vo.lu>
Message-ID: <4071a362@nntp0.pdx.net>

Marco Bartel wrote:

> rzed wrote:
> 
>> "Vineet Jain" <vineet at eswap.com> wrote in
>> news:mailman.341.1081121191.20120.python-list at python.org:
>>
>>> The following does not work although it seems like something you
>>> should be able to do.
>>>
>>> def someFunction(option=Constants.DEFAULT_VALUE):
>>>

I suspect what the OP wants is to evaluate "Constants.DEFAULT_VALUE"
at function call time, not function definition time.
Indeed, something like the following does not work:

     def someFunction(option=Constants.DEFAULT_VALUE):
         print 'the option was', option

     class Constants:
         DEFAULT_VALUE = 13

     someFunction()

In fact:
     class Constants:
         DEFAULT_VALUE = 13

     def someFunction(option=Constants.DEFAULT_VALUE):
         print 'the option was', option

     Constants.DEFAULT_VALUE = 7  # get luckier

     someFunction()

prints 13, not the possibly desired 7.



>> Do you mean in a context like this?
>>    class Const:
>>        someVal=255
>>        otherVal=0
>>
>>    def blip(Const.someVal):
Should be:
       def blip(test=Const.someVal):
> 
> i checked this out, and i think its the name you were using:
> Const
Nope, it is the missing arg name.

-- 
-Scott David Daniels
Scott.Daniels at Acm.Org


From ptkwt at aracnet.com  Mon Apr 26 13:17:24 2004
From: ptkwt at aracnet.com (Phil Tomson)
Date: 26 Apr 2004 17:17:24 GMT
Subject: How's ruby compare to it older brother python
References: <c6ich0$c5mee$1@ID-205437.news.uni-berlin.de>
	<108pvmgl0h7m3ea@news.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <c6jg7404m@enews4.newsguy.com>

In article <108pvmgl0h7m3ea at news.supernews.com>,
John Roth <newsgroups at jhrothjr.com> wrote:
>
>"Hunn E. Balsiche" <hunnebal at yahoo.com> wrote in message
>news:c6ich0$c5mee$1 at ID-205437.news.uni-berlin.de...
>> in term of its OO features, syntax consistencies, ease of use, and their
>> development progress. I have not use python but heard about it quite
>often;
>> and ruby, is it mature enough to be use for developing serious
>application,
>> e.g web application as it has not many features in it yet.
>
>As another poster has mentioned, Ruby is more closely related
>to Perl than to Python. While I don't use it, people I respect who
>have moved to Ruby say it has a couple of real killer features;
>in particular the way blocks and the pervasive use of the visitor
>pattern come together change the way one writes programs for
>the better.
>
>As far as syntax is concerned, there doesn't seem to be a
>huge amount of difference. Syntax is syntax, and every language
>has it's little pecularities.

Well, there is one big difference syntactically: Python uses indentation 
as syntax and Ruby doesn't.  Personally I don't prefer Python's 
'indentation-as-syntax' since it means that syntactically significant 
pieces of my code are invisible and if the tab settings in my editor are 
not the same as yours it can make it difficult to share code (or even 
worse, it might look like everything is OK when we share code, but the 
code which looks exactly the same to each of us, might not be depending 
on how tabs are or are not expanded). It would also seem to be a pain for 
cutting & pasting code as well.
However, some people really like Python's indentation-as-syntax, so YMMV.  

Your best bet is to actually use each language for a small project 
so that you spend about a day with each language.  You'll find that while 
on the surface both languages seem quite similar, at a deeper level they 
each have a very different effect on how you think about and approach the 
problem.  Some people find that Ruby best fits with their brain and others find 
Python a better fit.  You won't know until you try.

Phil


From eastier at free.fr  Wed Apr 21 19:26:18 2004
From: eastier at free.fr (Emmanuel)
Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2004 01:26:18 +0200
Subject: Generator inside a class prevent __del__ ??
References: <4085BA96.651D2E4A@free.fr>
	<mailman.819.1082507351.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<40866ECD.A45758B9@free.fr>
	<mailman.885.1082588262.20120.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <4087031A.AEB67C72@free.fr>



Andrew Bennetts a ?crit :

> On Wed, Apr 21, 2004 at 02:53:33PM +0200, Emmanuel wrote:
> >
> > Trouble is, I _would_ like not to care about the lifetime of the object, and I
> > don't know where it will be destroyed.
>
> Then don't use __del__.  Python can and will automatically collect cycles
> when the objects *don't* define __del__ methods.
>
> Out of curiousity, why are you defining __del__ anyway?
>
> -Andrew.



I don't want to use __del__, but I suspected I had an issue with the destruction of
my objects, and used a log in __del__ to monitor the destruction.

But defining __del__ has also a lot of valuable utilisation, or so I think...

Emmanuel




From james at ractive.ch  Fri Apr  9 14:22:40 2004
From: james at ractive.ch (Jean-Pierre Bergamin)
Date: Fri, 9 Apr 2004 20:22:40 +0200
Subject: Mac: How to receive AppleEvents with creator IDs
Message-ID: <c56plh$hbs$1@newshispeed.ch>

Hello pythoniers

I'm wondering if it's possible to receive AppleEvents with python that are
addressed only by the creator ID (= application signature) which is a usual
OSType four character code.

The sending application has no support for sending events which use the
process ID or the program name as an argument.


Any help will be appreciated.


Regards

James

-- 
http://www.p800.info




From eeide at cs.utah.edu  Mon Apr 26 11:48:03 2004
From: eeide at cs.utah.edu (Eric Eide)
Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2004 09:48:03 -0600 (MDT)
Subject: AOP use cases
References: <84fc4588.0404140106.3fa0c55@posting.google.com>
	<slrnc7q1ss.1aa.alf@largo.fayauffre.org>
	<cb035744.0404141130.170f51c4@posting.google.com>
	<slrnc7sgat.vp.alf@largo.fayauffre.org>
	<cb035744.0404160442.2f0b1661@posting.google.com>
	<0pydnSB4WYuieuLdRVn-hQ@powergate.ca> <uekqdjn7k.fsf@broadpark.no>
	<TYqdnZRX9Og5OBfdRVn-sA@powergate.ca>
Message-ID: <ywrbrle211o.fsf@ioka.flux.utah.edu>

"Peter" == Peter Hansen <peter at engcorp.com> writes:

	Peter> Hmm.... maybe I need to clarify what I mean by "real-world".
	Peter> 
	Peter> To mean, the term means something like "drawn from actual,
	Peter> working code in real projects implemented to achieve useful,
	Peter> practical results", as opposed to what, so far, pretty much
	Peter> everyone who proposes examples seems to think, which is more
	Peter> like "potentially interesting theoretical ideas which sound
	Peter> kinda cool"...
	Peter> 
	Peter> Has anyone used AOP in a real project, which wasn't a project
	Peter> just to demonstrate AOP?  For anything other than the logging
	Peter> example?  If so, what was the specific value provided by AOP,
	Peter> and can you post a snippet or two of code which demonstrates the
	Peter> cleaner structure provided by the clear separation of concerns
	Peter> which you believe comes from AOP practices?  And thank you. :-)

Perhaps you would be interested in IBM's recent paper, which was presented at
the AOSD 2004 conference:

	Adrian Colyer and Andrew Clement.  ``Large-Scale AOSD for Middleware.''
	In Proceedings of the 3rd International Conference on Aspect-Oriented
	Software Development, Lancaster, UK, March 2004, pages 56--65.
	<http://doi.acm.org/10.1145/976270.976279>

	ABSTRACT

	For a variety of reasons, today's middleware systems are highly
	complex.  This complexity surfaces internally in the middleware
	construction, and externally in the programming models supported and
	features offered.  We believed that aspect-orientation could help with
	these problems, and undertook a case study based on members of an IBM
	middleware product-line.  We also wanted to know whether
	aspect-oriented techniques could scale to commercial project sizes with
	tens of thousands of classes, many millions of lines of code, hundreds
	of developers, and sophisticated build systems.  This paper describes
	the motivation for our research, the challenges involved, and key
	lessons that we learnt in refactoring both homogeneous and
	heterogeneous crosscutting concerns in the middleware.

Now you might discount this as primarily being "a project just to demonstrate
AOP," but I think that that would be unfair.  Certainly a goal of the case
study was to evaluate AOP, but it was definitely in the context of a specific
and "real-world" task.  I hope you enjoy it!

For more pointers to real-world uses of AOP/AOSD, I'd suggest asking around in
the AOSD discussion mailing lists hosted at <http://aosd.net/>.  I don't have a
catalog of commercial uses handy, but the folks on the list are friendly :-).

Eric.

-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Eric Eide <eeide at cs.utah.edu>  .         University of Utah School of Computing
http://www.cs.utah.edu/~eeide/ . +1 (801) 585-5512 voice, +1 (801) 581-5843 FAX


From beliavsky at aol.com  Fri Apr 30 08:19:30 2004
From: beliavsky at aol.com (beliavsky at aol.com)
Date: 30 Apr 2004 05:19:30 -0700
Subject: MATLAB2Python
References: <D2Xjc.28117$Qc.1080799@twister1.libero.it>
Message-ID: <3064b51d.0404300419.59faf3e1@posting.google.com>

Sarge <sarge at arena.invalid> wrote in message news:<D2Xjc.28117$Qc.1080799 at twister1.libero.it>...
> Hi, everybody!
> I'm a moderately experienced programmer in Matlab, and looking for a 
> free computational language (Matlab is *REALLY* expensive for an 
> individual, like me).
> I came across Python (actually Scipy) and immediately felt 
> comfortable with the interface and syntax.
> I'm still a newbe, so, before attempting a serious work on it, I'd 
> like to hear any opinion about migration from Matlab to Python, and 
> also a rough comparison between these two languages.
> 
> Thanx in advance, and excuse me for my very bad English (I'm not a 
> native English speaker),
> 
> Sarge

In both Matlab and Fortran arrays indices start with 1 (at least by
default), and x(3:5) references elements x(3),x(4),x(5), whereas in
Python arrays start with 0 and x[3:5] = [x[3],x[4]] -- the element
corresponding to the upper bound is not included in the slice. That is
one issue to watch for.


From support at inode.at  Mon Apr 19 07:57:22 2004
From: support at inode.at (Inode - Mailscan)
Date: Mon, 19 Apr 2004 13:57:22 +0200
Subject: Virus "Worm.Sober.F" gefunden
Message-ID: <E1BFXOs-0008NB-00@mailcheck1.inode.at>

Sehr geehrte Damen und Herren,

in dem Mail mit dem Betreff 'Einzelheiten'
(gesendet am Mon, 19 Apr 2004 13:57:21 +0200) mit der angegebenen
Absenderadresse 'python-list at python.org' wurde der Virus 'Worm.Sober.F' gefunden.
Aus diesem Grund wird diese Mail nicht zugestellt.

Ihr Inode-Team

----------

Dear Customer,

the mail with the Subject 'Einzelheiten'
(sent on Mon, 19 Apr 2004 13:57:21 +0200) with the sender address
specified as 'python-list at python.org' contained a virus known as 'Worm.Sober.F'.
Due to this reason the Mail will not be delivered.

Your Inode-Team



From no_spam at terastat.com  Mon Apr 26 19:29:28 2004
From: no_spam at terastat.com (bap)
Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2004 23:29:28 GMT
Subject: Problem with PY2EXE and VPython
Message-ID: <sXgjc.43843$_L6.2802892@attbi_s53>

When I try to run a program on a clean machine using the VPython extensions
after compiling with PY2EXE I get the following error message: "The
procedure entry point IsWow64Process could not be located in the dynamic
link library KERNEL32.dll" . The compiled version runs fine on the original
machine (win NT OS) but gives this error message on a machine without
VPython installed (Win 2K OS). Is this anything that can be fixed with
appropriate parameters in PY2EXE or does it require that VPython be tweaked?
Any help appriciated.

Bruce Peterson




From mail at markus-franz.de  Sun Apr  4 13:36:46 2004
From: mail at markus-franz.de (Markus Franz)
Date: Sun, 4 Apr 2004 19:36:46 +0200
Subject: Processes with strange behavoir
Message-ID: <c4pgp1$a51$06$1@news.t-online.com>

Hi.

Today I created a script called load.py for using at the command line
written in Python 2.3.
This script should load as many websites as given on the comand line and
print them with a seperation string to stdout. The loading was done in
parallel. (I used processes for this.)

The script was started by the following command:

./load.py en 58746 http://www.python.com

Well, everything was fine. Then I wanted to load a second website and so I
started the script with the following command:

./load.py en 58746 http://www.python.com http://www.linux.org

The behaviour was strange: The last website (http://www.linux.org) was
loaded and printed twice.

Then I started the script for a third time with the following command:

./load.py en 58746 http://www.python.com http://www.linux.org
http://www.suse.com

The result was: First websites was loaded and shown once, second website
twice, and the third website was loaded and shown for four times!

(This behaviour occurs with ANY address given to the script...)


Does anybody know an answer to my problem???
Thank you.

Best regards

Markus Franz

(some information about my computer: Python 2.3, SuSE Linux 9.0 Pro with
Kernel 2.4)

--------------------------------------------------
My script:
--------------------------------------------------

#!/usr/bin/python

import urllib2, sys, socket, os, string

# set timeout
socket.setdefaulttimeout(4)

# function for loading and printing a website
def myfunction(url):
    try:
        req = urllib2.Request(url)
        req.add_header('Accept-Language', sys.argv[1])
        req.add_header('User-Agent', 'Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 6.0;
Windows NT 5.1)')
        f = urllib2.urlopen(req)
        contents = f.read()
        output = "\n---PI001---" + sys.argv[2] + '---PI001---' + '---PI002-'
+ sys.argv[2] + '::' + f.geturl() + '::' + sys.argv[2] + "-PI002---\n" +
contents
        print output
        del output
        f.close()
        del contents
        del f
        del req
    except:
        pass

# start processes
for currenturl in sys.argv:
    if currenturl != sys.argv[0] and currenturl != sys.argv[1] and
currenturl != sys.argv[2]:
        PID = os.fork()
        if PID == 0:
            myfunction(currenturl)
            exit




From peter at engcorp.com  Mon Apr 19 13:33:04 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Mon, 19 Apr 2004 13:33:04 -0400
Subject: Does Python compete with Java?
In-Reply-To: <8b336527.0404190831.65f7f7e2@posting.google.com>
References: <8b336527.0404051337.51bb4a1b@posting.google.com>
	<c4taac$2lg0bc$1@ID-169208.news.uni-berlin.de>
	<e838aa6e.0404071426.7192e8e4@posting.google.com>
	<slrnc79idf.hij.ramen@lackingtalent.com>
	<e838aa6e.0404130748.1d8e1ddf@posting.google.com>
	<407deb56$1@news.unimelb.edu.au>
	<KbydnZd2qY7uyuPdRVn-uw@powergate.ca>
	<8b336527.0404151019.14b93502@posting.google.com>
	<5KydnYqkwP1ES-PdRVn-vA@powergate.ca>
	<8b336527.0404190831.65f7f7e2@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <T-ednboWtIbMkBnd4p2dnA@powergate.ca>

kk wrote:
> 
> Peter Hansen <peter at engcorp.com> wrote:
>>kk wrote:
>>>That is exactly my point!  
>>
>>Uh, sorry, but what point?  The email address and initials you
>>are using here (kkennedy65 at yahoo.com and kk) have not posted
>>before in this thread, as far as I can see.  So who are you? :-)

 > I was responding to your point made earlier.
 >
 > I was the one that started the thread, look again.

Ah, thanks.  Mozilla had dropped the earlier messages, but Google
Groups helped me out.

And yes, I see that that was exactly your point. :-)

-Peter


From peter at semantico.com  Tue Apr  6 07:41:45 2004
From: peter at semantico.com (Peter Hickman)
Date: Tue, 06 Apr 2004 12:41:45 +0100
Subject: design by contract versus doctest
In-Reply-To: <407174ea$0$5066$4d4ebb8e@news.nl.uu.net>
References: <407174ea$0$5066$4d4ebb8e@news.nl.uu.net>
Message-ID: <4072977b$0$1699$afc38c87@news.easynet.co.uk>

aku wrote:
> But in "design by contract" this responsibility is squarely 
> on the shoulders  of the caller, and is *not* checked in
> the function.

Are you sure about this. If the called function did the checking then it 
will always be checked and the checks would be in one place and easy to 
update. If it the checks were done by the caller then the tests need to 
be placed everywhere the function is called. That alone would be a 
maintenance mightmare.

Looking at the Eiffel site the contract is enforced within the called 
function.

put (x: ELEMENT; key: STRING) is
     -- Insert x so that it will be retrievable through key.
     require
         count <= capacity
         not key.empty
     do
         ... Some insertion algorithm ...
     ensure
         has (x)
         item (key) = x
         count = old count + 1
     end

But then this is the python news group so I expect the father of DbC, 
Bertrand Meyer, is wrong.

No Smilley


From psXdaXsilva at esotericaX.ptX  Fri Apr 16 20:32:42 2004
From: psXdaXsilva at esotericaX.ptX (Paulo da Silva)
Date: Sat, 17 Apr 2004 01:32:42 +0100
Subject: idle: Watch self.vars
Message-ID: <1082163007.243512@jubilee.esoterica.pt>

How can I see the value of a self.var
in a class object when in a breapoint
using "idle"?


From fumanchu at amor.org  Fri Apr 23 11:22:57 2004
From: fumanchu at amor.org (Robert Brewer)
Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2004 08:22:57 -0700
Subject: Setting variable values from dictionary
Message-ID: <DE1CF2B4FEC4A342BF62B6B2B334601E56204E@opus.amorhq.net>

Sean Berry wrote:
> If I have a dictionary like the following:
> 
> {'category' : 2, 'shape', 4}
> 
> How can I use this to make
> category = 2 and 
> shape = 4.
> 
> I want to be able to do this regardless of the dict values type.  So:
> 
> {'cateogry' : 2, 'shape' : 'circle'}
> 
> will work as well.

Others will probably show you how to do this, but in most cases, I've
been better off making attributes of a new object instead of
module-level globals.

>>> attrs = {'category' : 2, 'shape' : 'circle'}
>>> class Namespace(object): pass
... 
>>> ns = Namespace()
>>> ns.__dict__.update(attrs)
>>> ns.shape
'circle'

...that way, you "cordon off" all of your shiny new dynamic 'variables'
into their own namespace.


Robert Brewer
MIS
Amor Ministries
fumanchu at amor.org



From davidb at mcs.st-and.ac.uk  Fri Apr 30 08:07:01 2004
From: davidb at mcs.st-and.ac.uk (David Boddie)
Date: 30 Apr 2004 05:07:01 -0700
Subject: pyuic for qtdesigner 3.3
References: <b0mkc.888$Yc.14616@news4.e.nsc.no>
Message-ID: <4de76ee2.0404300407.2e6dfa4@posting.google.com>

Christopher Grinde <christopher.grinde at hive.no> wrote in message news:<b0mkc.888$Yc.14616 at news4.e.nsc.no>...
> I've had trubles getting a puic that translates files from qt-designer 3.3
> Does anyone if there exist one, and if so, where to get it?

This thread on the PyQt/PyKDE mailing list might be relevant:

http://mats.imk.fraunhofer.de/pipermail/pykde/2004-April/007687.html

Good luck!

David


From llothar at web.de  Wed Apr 14 18:45:17 2004
From: llothar at web.de (Lothar Scholz)
Date: 14 Apr 2004 15:45:17 -0700
Subject: Difficulty Finding Python Developers
References: <65cbc3dd.0404140641.3501fde8@posting.google.com>
	<65cbc3dd.0404141018.36d9d4ce@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <6ee58e07.0404141445.5c0136b8@posting.google.com>

pm_mon at yahoo.com (Paul Morrow) wrote in message news:<65cbc3dd.0404141018.36d9d4ce at posting.google.com>...
> For those who've asked...
> 
> This particular project is essentially a web-based registration
> application.  We'll probably want to use mod_python to serve the
> pages, and Oracle for the database backend.  It will have things like
> a white-paper area that requires registration to access, an opt-in/out
> email component, and the like.
> 
> But we do want the developer to be physically here (in Atlanta).


Hmm, do you have any information if it is possible to get a working
permit for europeans for such a short time ? This could increase your
chances a lot.

But from what i know the three month will pass until i get all the
bureaucracy overhead done.


From moosebumps at moosebumps.com  Thu Apr 22 02:56:15 2004
From: moosebumps at moosebumps.com (Moosebumps)
Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2004 06:56:15 GMT
Subject: String/source code analysis tools
Message-ID: <j0Khc.25133$Q%5.6444@newssvr27.news.prodigy.com>

I have a whole bunch of script files in a custom scripting "language" that
were basically copied and pasted all over the place -- a huge mess,
basically.

I want to clean this up using Python -- and I'm wondering if there is any
sort of algorithm for detecting copied and pasted code with slight
modifications.

i.e. a simple example:

If I have two pieces of code like this:

func1( a, b, c, 13, d, e, f )
func2( x, y, z, z )

and

func1( a, b, c, 55, d, e, f )
func2( x, y, z, x )

I would like to be able to detect the redundancies.  This is obviously a
simple example, the real code is worlds messier -- say a 3 line script, each
line has 800 characters, copied 10 times over with slight modifications
among the 800 characters.  I'm not exaggerating.  So I'm wondering if there
is any code out there that will assist me in refactoring this code.

My feeling that a general solution this is very intractable, but I thought
I'd ask.  I'd probably have to roll my own based on the specifics of the
situation.

It is actually sort of like a diff algorithm maybe, but it wouldn't go line
by line.  How would I do a diff, token by token?  I don't know anything
about what algorithms diffs use.

thanks,
MB





From ml at dynkin.com  Sun Apr 18 00:39:02 2004
From: ml at dynkin.com (George Yoshida)
Date: Sun, 18 Apr 2004 13:39:02 +0900
Subject: Creating function object from text
In-Reply-To: <40815ab3$0$16479$61fed72c@news.rcn.com>
References: <40815ab3$0$16479$61fed72c@news.rcn.com>
Message-ID: <c5t0kj$2079$1@dojima-n0.hi-ho.ne.jp>

Edward C. Jones wrote:

> Suppose I have a piece of text that defines a function:
> 
> text ="""\
> def fun(i):
>     return i + 2
> """
> 
> How do I turn this into a function object, f, which can be called or 
> passed around?

Aside from Peter's advice, I'd recommend you to look into timeit.py and 
doctest.py.
These two library is a good example of how to use exec and compile in a 
  real application.

-- 
George


From paul at boddie.net  Tue Apr  6 09:38:00 2004
From: paul at boddie.net (Paul Boddie)
Date: 6 Apr 2004 06:38:00 -0700
Subject: slightly OT: BUT NEEDs to be said
References: <4078daf265c69e9353e8af72542da703@dizum.com>
Message-ID: <23891c90.0404060538.24238953@posting.google.com>

Nomen Nescio <nobody at dizum.com> wrote in message news:<4078daf265c69e9353e8af72542da703 at dizum.com>...
> 
> I think it would be great for Python.org/people behind Python
> to adopt this as an official mascot and DROP the god awful
> references to Monty Pythons's Flying Circus. It is the later
> which is causing a slow take up and reluctance of many
> individuals using Python.

PHB #1: "Python was proposed as an implementation technology for
         the project."
PHB #2: "I didn't find Quest for the Holy Grail funny at all.
         Just didn't get it."
PHB #1: "Scratch Python, then - do it in Java instead!"

> MPFC is a very very dated concept and because of it's strange
> whacky 'humour' has dubious extreme and loony left wing
> allegiences is not a good backdrop for Python. You should never
> bring politics into your product.

I think *you* did that, actually.

> Understand that in the UK a lot of people don't find MPFC
> amusing,

In my experience, people who make such overt generalisations about
British culture don't tend to be British, but instead turn out to be
people trying to flaunt some kind of British "credentials".

>          and many of the 'comedians' have become extremely
> dispised (like Michael Palin who is universally recognised as
> a figure of great nauseum) and have become objects of ridicule.

Universally ridiculed in your clique? Is this what you spend your time
doing these days, Mr Campbell [1]? ;-)

Paul

[1] http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/3028250.stm


From martin at v.loewis.de  Sun Apr 11 18:28:25 2004
From: martin at v.loewis.de (=?UTF-8?B?Ik1hcnRpbiB2LiBMw7Z3aXMi?=)
Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2004 00:28:25 +0200
Subject: print u"\u0432": why is this so hard? UnciodeEncodeError
In-Reply-To: <m38yh3hhxv.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk>
References: <cpa4qrvb529.fsf@cabernet.nelson.monkey.org>
	<c52lu9$j8c$03$1@news.t-online.com>
	<eppstein-55126D.00202008042004@news.service.uci.edu>
	<c546v4$bi5$02$1@news.t-online.com>
	<m38yh3hhxv.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <c5cgq3$tps$00$1@news.t-online.com>

Michael Hudson wrote:
> The user can set it per-terminal, at runtime, with no notification to
> the running process that it has done so!

I would find it acceptable to say "don't do that, then", here. However,
changing the encoding should be visible to new programs running in the
terminal.

I wonder how much would break if Python would assume the terminal
encoding is UTF-8 on Darwin. Do people use different terminal
encodings?

Regards,
Martin



From peter at engcorp.com  Tue Apr 20 10:41:08 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 10:41:08 -0400
Subject: How to check if a path *could* be a legal path?
In-Reply-To: <c62ums$b3b$1@atlantis.news.tpi.pl>
References: <c62ums$b3b$1@atlantis.news.tpi.pl>
Message-ID: <hrmdnVeNy5EYqxjdRVn-iQ@powergate.ca>

Maciej Sobczak wrote:

> I have a string.
> This string is to be used as a path for a new file.
> I would like to check if this string *could be* a valid file name, 
> *before* I try to create the file itself.
> In other words, I would like to know whether some string violates the 
> underlying OS's policies (or maybe some more restriced policies, but 
> portable) considering file paths.
> 
> Does the Python library contain a functionality that allows to achieve 
> this goal?

I don't think it does, and certainly not in a cross-platform manner.
Furthermore, even on a given platform I suspect you will not find
such a thing, because there are things like remote file systems
which might change the rules.  One file system might recognize
more or fewer valid characters than another, even on the same OS.

The best is probably just to define a restrictive subset of
possible characters and do a simple regular expression which
handles the basic path separator stuff, maybe with a little
os.path.sep substituted on the fly to keep it relatively
non-platform-specific.

Presumably this isn't a case where you can just catch an exception
at the time file creation is attempted?  After all, even with
a valid file name, you could still have several types of error
at the moment of creation.

-Peter


From eeide at cs.utah.edu  Fri Apr 23 13:04:29 2004
From: eeide at cs.utah.edu (Eric Eide)
Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2004 11:04:29 -0600 (MDT)
Subject: AOP use cases
References: <84fc4588.0404140106.3fa0c55@posting.google.com>
	<slrnc7q1ss.1aa.alf@largo.fayauffre.org>
	<cb035744.0404141130.170f51c4@posting.google.com>
	<slrnc7sgat.vp.alf@largo.fayauffre.org>
	<cb035744.0404160442.2f0b1661@posting.google.com>
	<0pydnSB4WYuieuLdRVn-hQ@powergate.ca>
	<tyfbrlkv3ae.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
	<XYmdnVLB9rjbARrdRVn-vg@powergate.ca>
	<cb035744.0404220802.5adc5a5a@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <ywrekqebp7m.fsf@ioka.flux.utah.edu>

"Will" == Will Stuyvesant <hwlgw at hotmail.com> writes:

	Will> Forget about *real* real-world examples, these people just want
	Will> to get papers published.

Perhaps that explains IBM's excitement about aspect-oriented technologies, as
reported here:

	<http://news.com.com/2100-1008-5178164.html>
	<http://www.theserverside.com/articles/article.tss?l=AOSD2004-2>
	<http://www.sys-con.com/story/?storyid=44214>

	Will> Usability is considered of minor impportance.

Perhaps that explains why AspectJ 1.1 received a Jolt Productivity Award in the
"Languages and Development Environments" category, as reported here:

	<http://sdmagazine.com/jolts/>

	Will> I have come to the conclusion that AOP is nothing more than what
	Will> I expect from a decent programmer: a good, or at least
	Will> reasonable, design of software in the first place.

I would say that the *goal* of AOP is "nothing more" that what you would expect
from a good programmer: good implementation of good software designs.  AOP is a
an approach that augments existing approaches, such as OOP, for obtaining that
goal.

Eric.

PS --- ObPython: I think it would be great to see more Python involvement in
the AOP/AOSD community!

-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Eric Eide <eeide at cs.utah.edu>  .         University of Utah School of Computing
http://www.cs.utah.edu/~eeide/ . +1 (801) 585-5512 voice, +1 (801) 581-5843 FAX


From mab at iee  Mon Apr  5 09:41:22 2004
From: mab at iee (Marco Bartel)
Date: Mon, 05 Apr 2004 15:41:22 +0200
Subject: Python and USB
Message-ID: <407162b0$1@news.vo.lu>

Hi Folks,

i just started to adapt some i2c routines from Flagship to Python.
I allready succeded in porting the low-level-routines accessing the 
parallel port. But now i also changed the electronics, so that my 
i2c-bus is connected to the usb-port of my machine. What i'am looking 
for now, is a way to access the usb-subsystem from python. i know there 
is a library called libusb for c , wich deals with the 
usb-kernel-modules, but unfortunatly i didn't found a wrapper around 
this library, wich allows me to do the same from within python. I just 
was thinking about to do the wrapper myself using SWIG, but i also still 
hope, that there is someone outside, who played allready with usb and 
python arround.

great thanks in advance for some tips and hints
Marco



From donn at drizzle.com  Sat Apr  3 23:52:45 2004
From: donn at drizzle.com (Donn Cave)
Date: Sun, 04 Apr 2004 04:52:45 -0000
Subject: Simulate socket with files or stdin/stdout
References: <c4fenn$o9h$1@newshispeed.ch>
	<donn-94CD08.17112131032004@nntp4.u.washington.edu>
	<106t7bin3d7vf93@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <1081054362.25117@yasure>

Quoth claird at lairds.com (Cameron Laird):
[... re invoking application with connected socket for unit 0 & 1 ...]
| I wonder how close the effect will be to recreation of inetd
| <URL: http://wombat.doc.ic.ac.uk/foldoc/foldoc.cgi?inetd >.

Pretty close, given the root privilege to configure inetd and
no intent to add any authorization checks, logging or other
embellishments.

	Donn Cave, donn at drizzle.com


From jdhunter at ace.bsd.uchicago.edu  Fri Apr 16 16:25:01 2004
From: jdhunter at ace.bsd.uchicago.edu (John Hunter)
Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2004 15:25:01 -0500
Subject: datetimes, tzinfo and gmtime epoch
In-Reply-To: <m2d6677lv1.fsf@mother.paradise.lost> (John Hunter's message of
	"Fri, 16 Apr 2004 14:40:02 -0500")
References: <DE1CF2B4FEC4A342BF62B6B2B334601E562005@opus.amorhq.net>
	<m2d6677lv1.fsf@mother.paradise.lost>
Message-ID: <m21xmn7js2.fsf@mother.paradise.lost>

>>>>> "John" == John Hunter <jdhunter at ace.bsd.uchicago.edu> writes:

    John> I *think* this is correct, where x is a datetime instance
    John> and tz is a tzinfo instance.

No goddawgy, I'm still off by an hour.  Basically, I need to go from
datetime -> gm epoch time -> and back while properly accounting for
dst.

My converter class is below.  The assertion fails, and the print
reveals I'm off by an hour.

Where is the timbot when you need him?

from your_tz_module import Eastern
import time
from datetime import datetime

SEC_PER_DAY = 24*3600
class PyDatetimeConverter:
    """
    Convert python2.3 datetime instances to/from epoch gmtime
    """

    def __init__(self, tz=Eastern):
        self.tz = tz

    def epoch(self, x):
        'convert userland datetime instance x to epoch'        
        offset = self.tz.utcoffset(x).days*SEC_PER_DAY + \
                 self.tz.utcoffset(x).seconds
        return time.mktime( x.timetuple() ) + offset

    def from_epoch(self, e):
        'return a datetime  from the epoch'
        y,month,d,h,m,s,wd,jd,ds = time.gmtime(e)
        return datetime(y,month,d,h,m,s, tzinfo=self.tz)

tz = Eastern
dt1 = datetime(2004, 03, 01, tzinfo=tz)  # before dst
dt2 = datetime(2004, 04, 15, tzinfo=tz)  # after dst

dtc = PyDatetimeConverter(Eastern)

#assert( dtc.from_epoch( dtc.epoch(dt1) ) == dt1 )
print dt1, dt2
print dtc.from_epoch( dtc.epoch(dt1) ), dtc.from_epoch( dtc.epoch(dt2) )






From ramen at lackingtalent.com  Thu Apr 29 20:43:56 2004
From: ramen at lackingtalent.com (Dave Benjamin)
Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2004 00:43:56 -0000
Subject: Simple prototyping in Python
Message-ID: <slrnc938vm.1v0.ramen@lackingtalent.com>

The recent conversation on prototype-based OOP and the Prothon project has
been interesting. I've been playing around with the idea for awhile now,
actually, since I do a lot of programming in JavaScript/ActionScript. I feel
like people are focusing too much on the "prototype chain", which to me is
mainly an attempt at reintroducing inheritance. I almost never use
inheritance anymore, preferring delegation instead in most cases. What I
think is much more interesting about the prototype-based style is the
ability to create and pass around anonymous objects. JavaScript has a syntax
for this:

var o = {a: 5, b: 6}

which is roughly equivalent to Python's:

class Whatever: pass
o = Whatever()
o.a = 5
o.b = 6

If you can tolerate some Lispism, you can actually create anonymous objects
in straight Python. This is liable to get some adverse reactions, but I just
want to demonstrate that it *can* be done. Here's an example:

class obj:
    def __init__(self, **kwds):
        self.__dict__.update(kwds)
            
    def set(self, name, value):
        setattr(self, name, value)
                        
def do(*args):
    return args[-1]
                            
def counter(start):
    ref = obj(value=start)
    return obj(
        current = lambda: ref.value,
        next    = lambda: do(
            ref.set('value', ref.value + 1),
            ref.value))
            
c = counter(0)
print c.current()
print c.next()
print c.next()
print c.current()

This outputs:

0
1
2
2

-- 
.:[ dave benjamin: ramen/[sp00] -:- spoomusic.com -:- ramenfest.com ]:.
:  please talk to your son or daughter about parametric polymorphism. :


From mikael at isy.liu.se  Thu Apr  8 06:05:02 2004
From: mikael at isy.liu.se (Mikael Olofsson)
Date: Thu, 8 Apr 2004 12:05:02 +0200
Subject: list comprehensions
In-Reply-To: <i56dc.46224$Pk3.1562@pd7tw1no>
References: <yjZcc.42823$Pk3.9547@pd7tw1no>
	<mailman.434.1081374131.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<i56dc.46224$Pk3.1562@pd7tw1no>
Message-ID: <20040408120502.00a23387.mikael@isy.liu.se>

"Elaine Jackson" <elainejackson7355 at home.com> wrote:
> [snip] I've discovered that you get an error from
> 
> x = [(i,j) for i in range(7-j) for j in range(3)]
> 
> while
> 
> y = [[(i,j) for i in range(7-j)] for j in range(3)]
> 
> works fine. [snip]

I will not argue about intuitiveness, but FYI:

    z = [(i,j) for j in range(3) for i in range(7-j)]

works fine. Others can explain why it is one way and not the other.

/Mikael Olofsson
Universitetslektor (Associate professor)
Link?pings universitet

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
E-Mail:  mikael at isy.liu.se
WWW:     http://www.dtr.isy.liu.se/en/staff/mikael               
Phone:   +46 - (0)13 - 28 1343
Telefax: +46 - (0)13 - 28 1339
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Link?pings kammark?r: www.kammarkoren.com   Vi s?ker tenorer och basar!



From nish20 at netzero.net  Tue Apr  6 16:58:45 2004
From: nish20 at netzero.net (Mike Nishizawa)
Date: 6 Apr 2004 13:58:45 -0700
Subject: OFF-TOPIC:: Why Lisp is not my favorite programming language
References: <165b3efa.0403030443.4d591f04@posting.google.com>
	<40460dd5$0$5916$7a628cd7@news.club-internet.fr>
	<d771b842.0403040735.3b5200ae@posting.google.com>
	<e87fc4b0.0403221114.254b7ee5@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <d771b842.0404061258.655b8e56@posting.google.com>

mintiSPAMBLOCK at yahoo.com (Minti) wrote in message news:<e87fc4b0.0403221114.254b7ee5 at posting.google.com>...
> nish20 at netzero.net (Mike Nishizawa) wrote in message news:<d771b842.0403040735.3b5200ae at posting.google.com>...
> > These posts are like big huge neon signs that say, "I'm IGNORANT."  If
> > you hold that 1 language is better than all other languages, then you
> > ARE ignorant.  LISP is a parsing language.  It's obviously not made to
> > do the same things that C is.  LISP is extremely fast for processing
> > data files.
> > 
> > C in not an end-all be-all of programming languages, even though it is
> > quite robust.  For instance, C is great if you are going to develop
> > software for 1 platform.  However, if you are developing software for
> > multiple platforms, Java is a better choice.
> > 
> > Really these discussions boil down to the programmer him/herself, who
> > is usually the one at fault for poor performance.  I'm not quite sure
> > when this happened, but at some point programmers started relying on
> > hardware for fast, efficient software and from that point on, the
> > quality and emphasis placed on writing efficient programs has
> > diminished.  If you want your code to run faster, make it more
> > efficient... make it use less resources... and use the right language
> > for the job.  Don't try to fit all things under one umbrella because
> > that language has not been developed yet.
> > 
> 
> 
> Quite valid arguments. However I have one question to ask, I am quite
> naive with LISP { just couple of weekends ) but I think the OP did
> raise some doubts in my mind. I mean to me LISP looks right now to be
> just OK. Some people said that with all the () it is difficult to code
> in but I think that with proper indentation that is absolutely
> ludicurous. However when some one says that the code might be 31.?
> times slower as compared to C, kinda of scares me. Could assert such
> figures. I know speed is not the one and only goal but just wondering
> if these figures are correct.
> 
> 
> Thanks

I would ask what the C program is doing.  If it beats LISP at it's own
game which is, list processing, then that would be different.  I don't
think I would choose to write an enterprise application in it, but I
think it's as good a choice as anything for any type of parsing
applications.  And to the smart guy who feels like he can take a stab
at me for calling lisp a parsing language... consider:  a parser is,
by definition, something that analyzes or separates (input, for
example) into more easily processed components.  Let's take a
document, for instance.  If I wanted to parse the document and
separate it into words, I would write a parser to do so. What is a
document but a list of words separated by spaces... an especially good
application for a LISt Processing language.


From peter at engcorp.com  Thu Apr 15 10:09:09 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2004 10:09:09 -0400
Subject: 7bit to 8bit
In-Reply-To: <mailman.646.1082032297.20120.python-list@python.org>
References: <c5ku5l$kgd$1@eol.dd.chalmers.se>	<2CF1A5CA-8E8F-11D8-BBCE-000A95D05654@gmx.net>
	<mailman.646.1082032297.20120.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <4I2dnfbLZq4YCuPdRVn-uw@powergate.ca>

Daniel Roth wrote:

> When I try your 'line' I get:
> # python
> Python 2.3.3 (#2, Apr 15 2004, 04:41:13)
> [GCC 3.3.3 20040110 (prerelease) (Debian)] on linux2
> Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>  >>> print "=F6=E4".decode('quopri').decode('latin-1')
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
> UnicodeEncodeError: 'ascii' codec can't encode characters in position 
> 0-1: ordinal not in range(128)
>  >>>

Note that the error is coming from the attempt to print, not from
the conversion.

Do this instead to prove that what Mark gave you works:

 >>> s = "=F6=E4".decode('quopri').decode('latin-1')
 >>> print s
(here you'll get the same error as before)
 >>> s
u'\xf6\xe4'

You can see that the string was converted properly (to a unicode
string) but when you try to print it, because your terminal's
encoding is ascii, it cannot be displayed properly.

-Peter


From simoninusa2001 at yahoo.co.uk  Thu Apr 15 20:01:01 2004
From: simoninusa2001 at yahoo.co.uk (simo)
Date: 15 Apr 2004 17:01:01 -0700
Subject: Python 2.3 on RedHat 9
References: <mailman.653.1082042823.20120.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <30260531.0404151601.bc92f2b@posting.google.com>

Bill Scherer <Bill.Scherer at VerizonWireless.com> wrote:

> > Did you install on top of Python 2.2 or did you install in a separate 
> > directory (eg the default)? 

> 2.3 prefix is /usr/local, RedHat's installed python prefix is /usr

Yes, and that seems to be the root of all evil for me - everything I
install wants to go into the /usr/<lib or bin>/python2.2 directories
instead of /usr/local/<lib or bin>/python2.3!

Forget the RPMs, compile everything from source is my advice (I
installed 2.3.3, VPython, Installer, wxPython, PyQt, SIPs,
wxGlade....)

What annoyed me was when I was evaluating LindowsOS and "apt-get
install libwxgtk24" installed everything for me (including Python
2.3.3!) in about 3 minutes as apposed to about 8 hours of compilation
time and hunting around for source tarballs! It was even easier that
Windows I think!


From bdesth.quelquechose at free.quelquepart.fr  Mon Apr 26 08:52:58 2004
From: bdesth.quelquechose at free.quelquepart.fr (Bruno Desthuilliers)
Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2004 14:52:58 +0200
Subject: How's ruby compare to it older brother python
In-Reply-To: <c6ich0$c5mee$1@ID-205437.news.uni-berlin.de>
References: <c6ich0$c5mee$1@ID-205437.news.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <408cffbb$0$22877$626a14ce@news.free.fr>

Hunn E. Balsiche wrote:
> in term of its OO features, syntax consistencies, ease of use, and their
> development progress. I have not use python but heard about it quite often;
> and ruby, is it mature enough to be use for developing serious application,
> e.g web application as it has not many features in it yet.

Syntax : both Ruby and Python are pretty clean, Ruby being IMHO more 
consistent and Python easier to grasp

OO : Ruby is OO all the way, and pretty close to Smalltalk. Python is 
more a mix of procedural and OO with some functional stuff too.

Web : Python may have a bit more existing solutions, and a real killer 
app (Zope). Now, AFAIK, Ruby has also some interesting stuff for web 
developpement.

IMHO, both are really great languages. I really like the elegance of 
Ruby and the ease of use of Python. So try both and pick the one that 
fits you're brain !-)

> I've given up on Perl for its ugly syntax and it is not the easiest language
> to learn. 

No comment...

> How about PHP?
<troll>
One of the dumbest 'scripting' language I've ever worked with, but still 
a good solution for web developpement when you have no better (read : 
Python or Ruby) choice.
</troll>

Bruno



From cjw at sympatico.ca  Fri Apr 16 14:22:05 2004
From: cjw at sympatico.ca (Colin J. Williams)
Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2004 14:22:05 -0400
Subject: CamelCase versus wide_names (Prothon)
In-Reply-To: <mailman.672.1082094734.20120.python-list@python.org>
References: <UHxfc.9323$dZ1.3740@fed1read04>
	<mailman.672.1082094734.20120.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <6vVfc.33671$vF3.1961904@news20.bellglobal.com>



Hans Nowak wrote:
> Mark Hahn wrote:
> 
>> We have agreed in Prothon that unlike Python we are going to be 100%
>> consistant in our var and method naming.  We will not have run-together
>> words like iteritems, we are going to always have seperated words like
>> has_key.
>>
>> Now we are in the midst of a discussion of camelCase versus 
>> wide_names.  So
>> far our arguments are:
>>
>> 1) CamelCase is more elegant, modern, more readable, and more 
>> efficient in
>> character usage.
>>
>> 2) Wide_names is cleaner, more readable, compatible with C, which is the
>> standard module language for Python and Prothon.  Wide_names is also the
>> Python standard.
>>
>> Of course in the Python world you alread have wide_names as your 
>> standard,
>> but could you for the moment pretend you were picking your standard from
>> scratch (as we are doing in the Prothon world) and give your vote for 
>> which
>> you'd prefer?
> 
> 
> That would be wide_names.  CamelCase would be tolerable.  In my own 
> code, I use a mixture: CamelCase for class names, wide_names for 
> everything else (inspired by older Python code).  Not mixedCase, mind 
> you; IMHO, that's an atrocity.  If you're going to use caps in names, 
> then at least the first letter should be capitalized.  Putting the 
> capitals somewhere in the middle but not in the front seems very 
> unnatural to me.
> 
My preferences are:

module names:  lower case.    to cope with case insensitive file systems
class names:   PascalCase.    this is comonly used
other names:   camelCase.     one has to choose something and this
                               avoids underscores
indent depth:   2             two is enough to give a visual break and
                               this reduces line wrape with multiple
                               indents

On the other hand as another contributor said, when amending existing 
code, it make sense to try to stick with whatever was done before.

Colin W.



From eddie at holyrood.ed.ac.uk  Thu Apr 22 06:11:23 2004
From: eddie at holyrood.ed.ac.uk (Eddie Corns)
Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2004 10:11:23 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: A python telnet entry level question
References: <mailman.893.1082600095.20120.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <c685ob$da5$1@scotsman.ed.ac.uk>

"Jinming Xu" <cybermanxu at hotmail.com> writes:

>Hello Everyone,

>I am trying to write a python script to telnet to a server and then do 
>something there. As the first step, I practiced the python example in Lib 
>Reference 11.13.2. But I am finding the script stops after I supplied the 
>password.  Does anyone know why?


>Thanks in advance!

>Jinming Xu

>PS: Here is the script:

>import getpass
>import sys
>import telnetlib

>HOST = "localhost"
>user = raw_input("Enter your remote account: ")
>password = getpass.getpass()

>tn = telnetlib.Telnet(HOST)

>tn.read_until("login: ")
>tn.write(user + "\n")
>if password:
>    tn.read_until("Password: ")
>    tn.write(password + "\n")

>tn.write("ls\n")
>tn.write("exit\n")

>print tn.read_all()

You are maybe being too specific in what you match for.  At least one of my
machines prompts:

  Pasword for <username>:

rather than just "Password: ".  I tend to match things like

"ogin"  (in case of Login vs login)
"assword" (will this get filtered out by censoring s/w?)

Eddie


From jbore at tjtech.com  Wed Apr 14 16:02:53 2004
From: jbore at tjtech.com (Joseph T. Bore)
Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2004 20:02:53 GMT
Subject: interpreter limits
References: <m3zn9f95xm.fsf@union.tjtech.com>
	<407c23bf$0$570$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>
	<m3u0zn93sg.fsf@union.tjtech.com>
	<407c2ecc$0$574$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>
	<7xisg3vfat.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<vKcfc.141399$K91.354742@attbi_s02>
	<YYqdnf44H6ft_ODdRVn-uQ@powergate.ca>
Message-ID: <m3k70is4ml.fsf@union.tjtech.com>


There is probably a better solution but this worked for me, thanks
Irmen!

jb

----------------------------------------
import signal

def alarmHandler(signum, frame):
    raise TimeExceededError, "Your command ran too long"

def infinite():
    while 1:
        pass

#
# code to wrap a function call which may take too long...
#
signal.signal(signal.SIGALRM, alarmHandler)
signal.alarm(1)
try:
    # call a function that never returns
    infinite()
except TimeExceededError:
    print "code must have gone crazy..."
signal.alarm(0)
----------------------------------------




From surrender_it at remove.yahoo.it  Sun Apr  4 10:11:02 2004
From: surrender_it at remove.yahoo.it (gabriele renzi)
Date: Sun, 04 Apr 2004 14:11:02 GMT
Subject: =?iso-8859-1?q?Re=3A_Working_with_a_list_in_a_more_=84pythonic?=
	=?iso-8859-1?q?=93_way?=
References: <20040404124833458+0200@news.rhrz.uni-bonn.de>
Message-ID: <ld5070hrs9d9hf2h0v3535l4ho51pqlsr5@4ax.com>

il 4 Apr 2004 10:48:28 GMT, Nickolay Kolev <nmkolev at uni-bonn.de> ha
scritto::


>I have come up with the following solution, but I hope some of you might 
>suggest a more _functional_ (reduce and map) way of diong it.
>
>n = 0           # the final score of the string
>
>for i in range(len(phrase)):
>	try:
>		n += soundScoreMatrix[ord(x[i]) - 65][ord(x[i + 1]) - 65]
>	except IndexError:
>		pass
>
>I was thinking about using "reduce", but that would not work as the 
>input and output of the function I would use are different (string input, 
>integer output).

why not? you just need to say to reduce to use a 0 as the first
parameter:

say:

def get_val(x):
  # gets the value from SSMatrix, now dumb
  return ord(x)
  

reduce(lambda a,b: a+get_val(b),list('blablabla'),0) #909





From michele.simionato at poste.it  Tue Apr  6 07:09:19 2004
From: michele.simionato at poste.it (Michele Simionato)
Date: 6 Apr 2004 04:09:19 -0700
Subject: Using function parameters to determine method kind
References: <4qrzym6e.fsf@telus.net>
	<95aa1afa.0404050417.2d11b369@posting.google.com>
	<8yh9r7p2.fsf@telus.net>
Message-ID: <95aa1afa.0404060309.32629338@posting.google.com>

Lenard Lindstrom <len-1 at telus.net> wrote in message news:<8yh9r7p2.fsf at telus.net>...
> Michele Simionato <michele.simionato at poste.it> wrote:
> >Lenard Lindstrom <len-1 at telus.net> wrote in message
> > news:<4qrzym6e.fsf at telus.net>...
> >> I was wondering if anyone has suggested having Python determine
> >> a method's kind from its first parameter.
>  ...
> >I find relaying on tbe parameter name to specify the kind of method
> >to be rather fragile. It works most times but not always. What about
> >inner classes for instance?
> Do you mean:
>   from dparams import Object
>   class A(Object):
>       class B(Object):
>           def __init__(self, x): self.x = x
>   b=A.B(x)
>  ?

No, I had in mind this (contrived) example:

class Outer(object):
      def outermeth(self1):
          class Inner(object):
                def innermeth(self2):
                    <do-something-with-self1-and-self2>
          ...

It is nice to have the ability to give any name to "self".

> Class A.B is not affected. Parameter checking only happens for
> instances of type function. Other callables have to be or
> use descriptors to be anything other than static. As for B's
> methods, parameter checking works just fine. My module is
> more of a demonstration than a practical solution anyway.
> I would suggest a different approach for implementing
> parameter checking in the python interpreter.
> 
> > Also, there are situations where you want
> >a method to work both with instances and classes, so do you want to
> >use self or cls?
> I can only imagine one way to do this now, wrap the function in a
> descriptor.
> 
> >>> from dparams import Object
> >>> from types import MethodType
> >>> class bimethod(Object):
> ... 	def __init__(self, f): self.f=f
> ... 	def __get__(self, o, t):
> ... 		if o is None: return MethodType(self.f, t, type(t))
> ... 		return MethodType(self.f, o, t)
> ... 	
> >>> class A(Object):
> ... 	def bi(x): return x
> ... 	bi=bimethod(bi)
> ... 	
> >>> A.bi()
>  <class '__main__.A'>
> >>> A().bi()
> <__main__.A object at 0x0119C1B0>
> 
> Descriptors are unaffected by the function's parameters, so the first
> parameter can be anything you want. If I am not mistaken, the only
> methods other that __new__  that currently work without descriptors
> are instance methods. 

?? All methods works with descriptors, what do you mean?
 
> Is it not good form for instance methods to
> start with 'self' anyways? (except maybe for a metaclass's __init__,
> but this is a special case)

It is not a special case (no special case is special enough or something
like that).


From usenet_spam at janc.invalid  Fri Apr 30 22:30:36 2004
From: usenet_spam at janc.invalid (JanC)
Date: Sat, 01 May 2004 02:30:36 GMT
Subject: Using C libraries
References: <mailman.95.1083180473.25742.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <Xns94DC2DDF3FB94JanC@213.118.38.102>

"Laughlin, Joseph V" <Joseph.V.Laughlin at boeing.com> schreef:

> I was thinking more along the lines of unix C libraries, not windows
> DLL.

>From the ctypes documentation:
"""
ctypes is a Python package to create and manipulate C data types in Python, 
and to call functions in dynamic link libraries/shared dlls. It allows 
wrapping these libraries in pure Python.

It works on Windows, Linux and MacOS X (the latter two require that your 
machine is supported by libffi).
"""

-- 
JanC

"Be strict when sending and tolerant when receiving."
RFC 1958 - Architectural Principles of the Internet - section 3.9


From teiffel at attglobal.net  Mon Apr 19 21:38:42 2004
From: teiffel at attglobal.net (Marcello Pietrobon)
Date: Mon, 19 Apr 2004 21:38:42 -0400
Subject: raw_input
Message-ID: <40847F22.8040707@attglobal.net>

Hello,
even if I learned something about Python,
still I don't know how to do ask the input from a user on the command line

This is my ( not working ) code:
        if ( not os.path.exists( dirname) ):
            msg = 'The directory \'%s\' does not exist. Create it [y/n] 
?' % dirname
            c = raw_input( msg ).lower
            if ( c == 'y' or c == 'yes' ):
                os.makedirs( dirname)
            else:
                raise Exception( 'directory \'%s\' not created, 
impossible to continue !' % dirname )


Thank you for any answers,
Marcello





From matthew at barnes.net  Tue Apr 13 13:06:45 2004
From: matthew at barnes.net (Matthew Barnes)
Date: 13 Apr 2004 10:06:45 -0700
Subject: Adding properties to objects
Message-ID: <3a8e83d2.0404130906.2ea796e9@posting.google.com>

Is it possible to add properties to objects dynamically?

I have an instance (x) of some new-style class (Foo), and I would like
to be able to do something like:

>>> x = Foo()
>>> x.myproperty = property(getsomething, setsomething, delsomething);
>>> x.myproperty        # invokes getsomething
>>> x.myproperty = 1    # invokes setsomething
>>> del x.myproperty    # invokes delsomething

However, when I evaluate x.myproperty I get back a property object
(which makes sense).  I get the feeling I'm missing a step to "bind"
the property object to the class instance.

Is this possible (it's Python... of course it's possible, right?), and
if so, how?

Matthew Barnes


From kkennedy65 at yahoo.com  Thu Apr 15 14:19:52 2004
From: kkennedy65 at yahoo.com (kk)
Date: 15 Apr 2004 11:19:52 -0700
Subject: Does Python compete with Java?
References: <8b336527.0404051337.51bb4a1b@posting.google.com>
	<c4taac$2lg0bc$1@ID-169208.news.uni-berlin.de>
	<e838aa6e.0404071426.7192e8e4@posting.google.com>
	<slrnc79idf.hij.ramen@lackingtalent.com>
	<e838aa6e.0404130748.1d8e1ddf@posting.google.com>
	<407deb56$1@news.unimelb.edu.au>
	<KbydnZd2qY7uyuPdRVn-uw@powergate.ca>
Message-ID: <8b336527.0404151019.14b93502@posting.google.com>

That is exactly my point!  If I were starting a company that needed a
staff to write custom software or software for sale, I could choose to
use Python as the predominate tool.  Assuming this was a rational
decision, and not an emotional one, this could lower my costs by
making programmers more productive, and making maintenance cheaper. 
However, if there are no programmers in my area that know Python, how
could I justify that decision?  I would have the expense of training
programmers on the job, as well as having a hard time getting
applicants for the job.

Python doesn't have big company dollars behind it like Java and C#,
and some say it never will.  It could be argued that the same thing
was said about Linux a few years ago.  Now, you can't pick up an IT
rag without reading something about Linux and Open Source.

compete -> as in developer mind-share.

I would hope that someday Python would be a "tool" that "most"
developers would want to have in their "tool box".


Peter Hansen <peter at engcorp.com> wrote in message news:<KbydnZd2qY7uyuPdRVn-uw at powergate.ca>...
> Maurice LING wrote:
> > A. Lloyd Flanagan wrote:
> >> Dave Benjamin <ramen at lackingtalent.com> wrote:
> >>> Over the long term, I think Python's biggest key to success will be 
> >>> that we will still be able to read the programs that we are writing now.
> >>
> >> No argument here :)
> > 
> > I don't quite understand, does Python have to compete with Java? In many 
> > cases, the programming language used to write an application almost has 
> > no relevance to the acceptance of the application. 
> 
> That's not the whole picture though.  One would also like to be able
> to easily find programmers capable of working very effectively with
> the language, so that maintenance can be performed, and enhancements,
> and new projects using the same language.
> 
> This "competition" he's talking about is not really going on in the
> users' minds, but in the developers' minds.  Imagine how difficult it
> would be to get anywhere with projects if there were so many popular
> languages that the odds of a given developer knowing your language
> were, say, less than 2%...
> 
> > What I see is that Python and Java can be synergistically linked, for 
> > example, through Jython, can be more constructive than competition...
> 
> That is yet another of Python's strengths. ;-)
> 
> -Peter


From marklists at mceahern.com  Thu Apr 29 20:30:16 2004
From: marklists at mceahern.com (Mark McEahern)
Date: Thu, 29 Apr 2004 19:30:16 -0500
Subject: Closures
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0404292315080.3857-100000@pingu.thwackety.com>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0404292315080.3857-100000@pingu.thwackety.com>
Message-ID: <1083285016.2411.59.camel@dev.internal>

On Thu, 2004-04-29 at 17:17, Michael Sparks wrote:
> On Thu, 29 Apr 2004, Gustavo Niemeyer wrote:
> 
> > class Closure:
> >     def __init__(self):
> >         self.__dict__ = sys._getframe().f_back.f_locals
> 
> Out of interest how portable is this? Strikes me as extremely useful
> class to have lying around :) The only thing that makes me wonder is the
> access to _getframe...

There are more straightforward ways to get at locals--here's a modified
version that uses doctest to demonstrate/prove what the code does.  Is
the value of Closure--beyond just plain old nested scopes--that you
don't have to pass counter into getFunc()?

#!/usr/bin/env python

import doctest
import unittest

class Closure:
    def __init__(self, **kwargs):
        self.__dict__.update(kwargs)

def getFunc():
    """
    >>> c = getFunc()
    >>> c()
    1
    >>> c()
    2
    >>> c()
    3
    """
    counter = 0
    c = Closure(**locals())
    def count():
        c.counter += 1
        print c.counter
    return count

def test_suite():
    return doctest.DocTestSuite()

if __name__ == '__main__':
    unittest.main(defaultTest='test_suite')





From tjreedy at udel.edu  Thu Apr 29 16:43:48 2004
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Thu, 29 Apr 2004 16:43:48 -0400
Subject: Create object for item in list
References: <39885b3c.0404291110.7bd152ba@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <c6rpds$o2v$1@sea.gmane.org>


"Helge" <helge at hefre.com> wrote in message
news:39885b3c.0404291110.7bd152ba at posting.google.com...
> I wonder how this can be accomplished:
>
> I've got a list, containing several strings. The strings look like
> this:
>
> [ "Name1/N1/N2/N3" , "Name2/N1/N2/N3" , "..." ]
>
> I would like to create one object for each item in the list, and the
> name of the object should be "str(item.split("/")[0])".

Binding and using dynamic names in the global (or function local) namespace
is generally a nuisance.  The standard idiom is to use a separate
dictionary as a namespace for just those items.  Something like

myobs = {}
for datastring in namedata:
    data = datastring.split('/')
    myobs[data[0]] = myclass(*data[1:])

Terry J. Reedy






From trushe at tut.by  Sat Apr 10 03:10:48 2004
From: trushe at tut.by (tru)
Date: Sat, 10 Apr 2004 11:10:48 +0400
Subject: a little problem
Message-ID: <40779DF8.9000207@tut.by>

Hello,
I'm not a specialist in Python and it occured so that my tutor gave me 
the task to write server part of a site in Python using CGI scripts, 
which should have next functions: connecting to database and putting 
there messages ot users, also  it will be the  possibility for tester to 
check this base  and I should write a simple interfase.Would you advise 
me what should I start with, because I got known about Python only from 
his words two weeks ago. Please,  do not advice me to read a lot of 
books before bothering you , he gave me too little time to learn it and 
to do it . One more thing-- I'm  a student. )
  best wishes , Tru.




From rtw at freenet.co.uk  Mon Apr 12 22:00:47 2004
From: rtw at freenet.co.uk (Rob Williscroft)
Date: 13 Apr 2004 02:00:47 GMT
Subject: Escaping characters in MySQLdb query
References: <AkEec.271$U83.155@fed1read03>
Message-ID: <Xns94CA1EA83E609ukcoREMOVEfreenetrtw@130.133.1.4>

Sean Berry wrote in news:AkEec.271$U83.155 at fed1read03 in
comp.lang.python: 

> I wrote a little script that is inserting thousands of records into a
> mysql database.
> 
> How do I escape characters like ' in my insert statements?
> 
> I have something like the following (much shorter) example:
> 
> c.execute("INSERT INTO records (var1, var2) values ('%s', '%s')"  
> %(value1, value2))
> 
> My problem is when value1 is something like "Tom's auto supply".  The
> ' in Tom's needs to be escaped.  How can I do this?
> 

IIUC this is (mostly) a SQL question. 

c.execute( 
  "INSERT INTO records (var1, var2) values ('%s', '%s')" 
  % (value1.replace( "'", "''" ), value2.replace( "'", "''" )) 
)

I believe the standard way of puting a ' in an SQL ' delemited string is
to double it i.e. '''' is a single char string "'", but check the mysql 
docs.

http://dev.mysql.com/doc/mysql/en/String_syntax.html

Apparently with mysql you can also use '\'' so:

c.execute( 
  "INSERT INTO records (var1, var2) values ('%s', '%s')" 
  % (value1.replace( "'", "\\'" ), value2.replace( "'", "\\'" )) 
)

Should also work.

Rob.
-- 
http://www.victim-prime.dsl.pipex.com/


From lambajan at yahoo.com  Sun Apr  4 03:49:42 2004
From: lambajan at yahoo.com (Nakamura)
Date: 3 Apr 2004 23:49:42 -0800
Subject: splitting a long token across lines
Message-ID: <ef0c9173.0404032349.742f59e6@posting.google.com>

Hi all,

Say, I have a very long integer constant , how can
I split across lines ?
I tried something like
MODULUS = 7567567567567567567567567567567\
          7567507546546986094860986094860\
          2345646986598695869548498698989\
          ...
but it doesn't compile.
Is there another way to write a long numeric constant besides writing
it as a string and then converting to long? I also wouldn't like to put
it all on one very long line.

Thanks!


From tdelaney at avaya.com  Wed Apr 28 19:43:52 2004
From: tdelaney at avaya.com (Delaney, Timothy C (Timothy))
Date: Thu, 29 Apr 2004 09:43:52 +1000
Subject: Backticks: What up?
Message-ID: <338366A6D2E2CA4C9DAEAE652E12A1DE016BCA3B@au3010avexu1.global.avaya.com>

Steven Brent wrote:

> Thanks! I didn't know you could use printf type syntax with return....

String formatting can be used anywhere that an expression can. There is
nothing special about `return` in Python - it just returns the result of
an expression.

In the Python library reference ...

2.3.6.2 String Formatting Operations

will tell you everything you need to know about them.

Tim Delaney



From mark at prothon.org  Fri Apr  2 23:29:57 2004
From: mark at prothon.org (Mark Hahn)
Date: Fri, 2 Apr 2004 20:29:57 -0800
Subject: Indent testers needed (Prothon)
References: <Unqbc.131025$cx5.57643@fed1read04>
Message-ID: <b5rbc.132699$cx5.63133@fed1read04>

This was a bit premature. Some of our test cases give indentation errors.
I'll post another file when it is really ready for testing.

Meanwhile comments on our intended solution would be greatly appreciated.




From peter at engcorp.com  Thu Apr 22 16:10:56 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2004 16:10:56 -0400
Subject: equivalent to Tcl 'after' command?
In-Reply-To: <mailman.926.1082656687.20120.python-list@python.org>
References: <huThc.54272$9V6.15414@newssvr25.news.prodigy.com>
	<mailman.926.1082656687.20120.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <846dnYvX2qlNuxXdRVn-ig@powergate.ca>

Jeff Epler wrote:

> Python doesn't define any event loop of its own.  asyncore has one, but
> I don't think it has the concept of scheduling events at a future time,
> but only of reacting to the readability / writability of sockets.
> 
> I'm sure that more advanced systems, like Twisted, can do the kind of
> thing you're asking for.

It does, using reactor callLater(), but I'd go for the sched approach
if it's just a one-off.


From tim.one at comcast.net  Sat Apr  3 11:50:17 2004
From: tim.one at comcast.net (Tim Peters)
Date: Sat, 3 Apr 2004 11:50:17 -0500
Subject: ANNOUNCE: 'goto' for Python
In-Reply-To: <ip1t60pm9gu1ou8r0atn63en2iom91hg7r@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCAEOAJPAB.tim.one@comcast.net>

[Roger]
>> http://www.fortran.com/come_from.html
>> http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?ComeFrom
>> http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/CodeDoc/Acme-ComeFrom/ComeFrom.html

[Richie Hindle]
> Thanks for the references!  It's a bit of an embarrassment for the
> Python community that it's taken us so long to catch up.

Guido has already accepted your module for inclusion in Python 2.4, and I
expect he'll use his time machine then to ensure that it's always been part
of Python.

> And it's a bit of an embarrassment for me that I didn't implement
> "goto <linenumber>" or "comefrom <linenumber>" - I'll implement those
> in the next release.

That would be confusingly low-level.  If you haven't used Fortran, you may
not have realized that Clark's examples never used line numbers.  In
Fortran, you have the option of putting a non-negative integer in columns 1
through 5 of a statement.  There are no restrictions on the integers you can
put there (e.g., they needn't bear any relation to line number, and don't
even have to be increasing top-to-bottom), except that no two statements can
have the same integer attached.  So Clark *was* using labels, not line
numbers -- they're simply integer labels.  Your introduction of alphanumeric
labels to Python is already far advanced.

I must say, though, that the restriction to 5 digits in Fortran had the nice
Pythonic effect of discouraging a subroutine from containing more than a
hundred thousand branch targets (if you wanted more than that, you had to
play obscure tricks to worm around the no-more-than-1E5-labels restriction,
and that had a healthy moderating effect -- sad to say, most programmers
start to lose track after just a few tens of thousands of branch targets!).

BTW, because Fortran ignored whitespace, these labels were all the same:

123
  123
 123
01 23
1 2 3
00123

> (Computed and conditional comefroms are already on the list, as are
> computed labels, which I'm surprised to see missing from Clark's paper.
> His "assigned COME FROM" is almost the same thing, but I found it
> confusing - computed labels seem like a much clearer way of achieving
> the same thing.)

As above, the conflict is an illusion:  Clark is also using labels, they're
just integer labels.  Full speed ahead!




From nikolai.kirsebom.NOJUNK at siemens.no  Fri Apr 30 03:04:11 2004
From: nikolai.kirsebom.NOJUNK at siemens.no (Nikolai Kirsebom)
Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2004 09:04:11 +0200
Subject: Automated installation framework
Message-ID: <vgu3901i2q8nmqdhc6s9eph8bjl8cet159@4ax.com>

Does anyone know of an 'automated installation framework' written in
Python / accessible from Python ?

Could it be an idea to use the unittest module as a framework for
making such a system, using the 'setup-action' to make precondition
testing, 'run' to do the actual installation and the 'teardown-action'
to do verification.

Opinions are appreciated.


In our case, the target system is (multi-machine) Windows.


Nikolai



From adam_gautier at yahoo.com  Sat Apr  3 11:27:50 2004
From: adam_gautier at yahoo.com (Adam T. Gautier)
Date: Sat, 03 Apr 2004 11:27:50 -0500
Subject: Working with bytes.
Message-ID: <406EE606.4000604@yahoo.com>

I have been unable to solve a problem.  I am working with MD5 signatures 
trying to put these in a database.  The MD5 signatures are not generated 
using the python md5 module but an external application that is 
producing the valid 16 byte signature formats.  Anyway, these 16 byte 
signatures are not nescarrally valid strings.  How do I manipulate the 
bytes?  I need to concatenate the bytes with a SQL statement which is a 
string.  This works fine for most of the md5 signatures but some blow up 
with a TypeError.  Because there is a NULL byte or something else.  So I 
guess my ultimate question is how do I get a prepared SQL statement to 
accept a series of bytes?  How do I convert the bytes to a valid string 
like:

'x%L9d\340\316\262\363\037\311\345<\262\357\215'

that can be concatenated?

Thanks



From pm_mon at yahoo.com  Fri Apr 16 13:46:39 2004
From: pm_mon at yahoo.com (Paul Morrow)
Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2004 13:46:39 -0400
Subject: Difficulty Finding Python Developers
In-Reply-To: <D6idncWvro52euLdRVn-hg@powergate.ca>
References: <65cbc3dd.0404140641.3501fde8@posting.google.com><5d83790c.0404150701.605782a7@posting.google.com><roy-A17A1C.12565615042004@reader2.panix.com><7xpta8hqe7.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com><roy-A844BA.18263715042004@reader2.panix.com><7xsmf4kbac.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com><roy-B8AA1E.21270915042004@reader2.panix.com><7x7jwg7ipn.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>	<GfSdnRKGHIm2_-LdRVn-gg@powergate.ca>	<mailman.686.1082115401.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<D6idncWvro52euLdRVn-hg@powergate.ca>
Message-ID: <c5p665$gun$1@sea.gmane.org>

> And in case my point was unclear: the OP asked about something
> which seemed like a very simple experimental project to get their
> feet wet with Python.


It is somewhat of an experiment, but the application is to be used in an 
actual production system.  The experiment is to see how viable Python 
outsourcing is in our area, in the event the inhouse developers get 
swamped and we need help fast...

We're now in the process of creating a posting for (at least) 
monster.com, so those interested in the position can apply.




From marco.terzuoli at libero.it  Tue Apr 27 18:27:51 2004
From: marco.terzuoli at libero.it (Marco Terzuoli)
Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2004 22:27:51 GMT
Subject: insert-at-cursor doesn't work
Message-ID: <H7Bjc.26316$Qc.1025216@twister1.libero.it>

Hi,
I have created a window and placed a gtk.Entry inside it. I would like to
perform some tasks when the text of the entry is changed, so I have created
a connection such as this:

self.name_text=gtk.Entry()
self.name_text.connect("insert-at-cursor",self.name_text_changed,None)

Also, I have defined the function name_text_changed as follows:

def testo_cambiato(self,entry,string,data=None):

I don't receive any error while the program is run, but actually nothing
works.... I have tried to deal with other signals concerning the entry such
as activate and delete-from-cursor and they worked perfecly, so I just
don't understand what's wrong with my code.
Can anybody help?
Thanks
Marco


From theller at python.net  Fri Apr  2 12:51:36 2004
From: theller at python.net (Thomas Heller)
Date: Fri, 02 Apr 2004 19:51:36 +0200
Subject: py2exe and the path module
Message-ID: <k70yclp3.fsf@python.net>

Several users have been bitten by the incompatibility of py2exe and
Jason Jorendorff's path module at
http://www.jorendorff.com/articles/python/path/.

I think I have found the bug in modulefinder that leads to the unbounded
recursion when the path module is installed, and posted a patch to the wiki:
http://starship.python.net/crew/theller/moin.cgi/PathModul

It would be nice if some people at least could try out the patch (even
some that don't have the path module), and report whether it works or
not.

Thanks,

Thomas




From steve at ninereeds.fsnet.co.uk  Tue Apr  6 11:15:14 2004
From: steve at ninereeds.fsnet.co.uk (Stephen Horne)
Date: Tue, 06 Apr 2004 16:15:14 +0100
Subject: int('2.1') does not work while int(float('2.1')) does
References: <mailman.376.1081213637.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<40722555.66C70D40@alcyone.com>
	<slrnc74a1l.bqf.joe@gate.notcharles.ca>
	<40722E98.253B5FF2@alcyone.com>
	<slrnc74t4i.ccv.joe@gate.notcharles.ca>
	<Xns94C381EB722E0duncanrcpcouk@127.0.0.1>
Message-ID: <gug570p5rhod2lejtdcod90qoemh8dndus@4ax.com>

On 6 Apr 2004 11:52:32 GMT, Duncan Booth <me at privacy.net> wrote:

>If int(string) was changed to have this behaviour as well, then those of 
>who don't want any rounding wouldn't have any way to get the current 
>behaviour. Users may be surprised when they enter 2.1 and find the program 
>accepted it but didn't use the value they entered; I don't like suprising 
>users.

Even this is debatable, as it is possible to spot the error.

>>> '.' in '2.1'
True

Or, to be sure about it...

>>> numstr = '2.1'
>>> ('.' in numstr) or ('E' in numstr.upper ())
True


You claim it's a case of "Explicit is better than implicit" but I
don't know any typecast that is explicit about what it is casting from
in any language, Python included.


One way or the other, some users get a slight extra hassle. In this
case I think Python got it right for two reasons...

1.  Wanting to implicitly accept a float in a string as an integer is
    relatively unusual, so better to have the small extra hassle in
    this case.

2.  Accidentally accepting a float in a string as an integer when you
    shouldn't is a bad thing - it is usually better to get a highly
    visible exception early in development rather than releasing a
    program which gives bad results without warning.

But it wouldn't matter than much either way. I've used at least one
language that did the conversion in one step and that never created a
serious problem. As Mel Wilson said...

:    You could argue that unit testing, the universal solvent,
: would clean up this too.



-- 
Steve Horne

steve at ninereeds dot fsnet dot co dot uk


From peter at engcorp.com  Tue Apr 20 10:18:26 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 10:18:26 -0400
Subject: Goodbye TCL
In-Reply-To: <4084A419.3020004@activestate.com>
References: <0LudnSads6NmpuPdRVn-vw@centurytel.net>
	<f82c8ae7.0404151057.67333d4e@posting.google.com>
	<107u6ef5a2ise19@news.supernews.com>
	<f82c8ae7.0404160731.7473b61f@posting.google.com>
	<roy-02BF89.11323816042004@reader2.panix.com>
	<4084A419.3020004@activestate.com>
Message-ID: <3IGdncIrwrqvrBjdRVn-uw@powergate.ca>

Jeff Hobbs wrote:
> Roy Smith wrote:
>> In article <f82c8ae7.0404160731.7473b61f at posting.google.com>,
>>  blacksqr at usa.net (Stephen Huntley) wrote:
>>
>>> I would be curious to know what is the biggest-capacity Python network
>>> application in use?  How does it scale in comparison with AOLServer? 
>>> Any ideas?
>>
>> How about the one you're using to post your articles -- Google.
> 
> This is no longer true - google did use Python at one point, but
> now it is reserved for internal company stuff only, as google
> really required hard-core C/C++ for the speed and scale at which
> it performs.

Doubtless you have real evidence to back up this claim?

Proof that shows that you aren't just mistaken about where
Python was ever used in that company?  (Hint: it was never
used to run the web servers themselves, of course, but was
and still is used for the "gathering" side of things.)

-Peter


From me at privacy.net  Sat Apr 24 09:59:12 2004
From: me at privacy.net (Heather Coppersmith)
Date: 24 Apr 2004 09:59:12 -0400
Subject: How to check if a path *could* be a legal path?
References: <cYqdnauMDdsosxjd4p2dnA@comcast.com>
	<slrnc8kntf.pk.jgrahn-nntq@frailea.sa.invalid>
	<pqidnd24pqKS_hfdRVn-gQ@powergate.ca>
Message-ID: <m2brlh32a7.fsf@unique.phony.fqdn>

On Sat, 24 Apr 2004 08:52:31 -0400,
Peter Hansen <peter at engcorp.com> wrote:

> Jorgen Grahn wrote:

>> By the way, for Unix the test is pretty easy. It's more or less
>> def isValid(path): return path and not '\0' in path

> Aren't there also length limits, and limits which differ
> depending on the specific *nix variant one has?

And "/" is still reserved for the directory separator.

Regards,
Heather

-- 
Heather Coppersmith
That's not right; that's not even wrong. -- Wolfgang Pauli


From See_my at Signature.com.invalid  Sun Apr 18 07:15:41 2004
From: See_my at Signature.com.invalid (Tuxtrax)
Date: Sun, 18 Apr 2004 11:15:41 GMT
Subject: help with str()
Message-ID: <See_my-763698.04154818042004@news.verizon.net>

Hi all.

I have need of assistance on something that should be very simple, and 
is driving me absolutely batty. This is a code snippet from a short 
program that downloads news headers via nntplib. getinput() is simply a 
function I have defined for using raw_input in a friendly fashion.


message_request = getinput("\nHow many posts should I be interested in? 
[max 10,000]")

    if int(message_request) > int(number_of_messages):
       print "\nRequest exceeds current available message count. 
Adjusting to %s posts" % number_of_messages
       message_request = number_of_messages
    elif int(message_request) > 10000:
       print "\nRequest exceeds program capacity. Assuming max of 10,000 
posts, and continuing ...."
       message_request = "10000"      
    
      
The trouble comes in when I try to convert last_message into a string:

    last_message = str(int(first_available_message) + 
int(message_request)) 

I also tried variations on a theme like:

last_message = int(first_available_message) + int(message_request)
string_result = str(last message)

No dice. In every case, I get the following error:

Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "headhunter.py", line 317, in ?
    response, poster = n.xhdr("from", 
first_available_message+"-"+str(last_message))
TypeError: 'str' object is not callable

I have tried everything I could think of and there is only one 
possibility still left that I can think of. My theory is this: by using 
the int() function, I am typing the numbers in the last_message 
assignment to type integer, and str() is expecting type float, or 
something.

I am stuck. Thanks for any help you all can provide. I appreciate it.

best regards,

Mathew

-- 
ROT 13 this address to mail me:

bar jbeq abg guerr; uvtu qrfreg zna, gura nqq - ng lnubb qbg pbz.


From PPNTWIMBXFFC at spammotel.com  Wed Apr 28 11:27:58 2004
From: PPNTWIMBXFFC at spammotel.com (Marco Aschwanden)
Date: Wed, 28 Apr 2004 17:27:58 +0200
Subject: Path ... where is my application's home dir?
References: <F1921F85572CB04D9F55B14BDC76B3E443485B@tdi_nt9.internal.viacom-outdoor.co.uk>
Message-ID: <opr66akwy035jo5o@news.gmane.org>

Your answer is very much appreciated!

Thanks a lot,
Marco




From theller at python.net  Fri Apr 30 09:46:33 2004
From: theller at python.net (Thomas Heller)
Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2004 15:46:33 +0200
Subject: Automated installation framework
References: <vgu3901i2q8nmqdhc6s9eph8bjl8cet159@4ax.com>
	<mailman.149.1083321388.25742.python-list@python.org>
	<hbe490hkv9fbbs0tlssllbpmsd8f6odf5u@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <ekq5d1dy.fsf@python.net>

Nikolai Kirsebom <nikolai.kirsebom.NOJUNK at siemens.no> writes:

> On Fri, 30 Apr 2004 13:36:02 +0200, Thomas Heller <theller at python.net>
> wrote:
>
>>
>>Is it this that you have in mind?
>>
>>Martin von L?wis, packing Python with Microsoft Installer:
>>http://www.python.org/pycon/dc2004/papers/44/
>>
> Not really.  I'm looking for a system which can be used to install an
> application in an environment.  As an example:

Have you read the paper?  The title talks about packaging the Python
distribution, but what Martin does is creating the msi installer using
Python.  In other words, a Python framework to create msi packages,
which could contain anything...

Sorry if I misunderstood again.

Thomas




From smallbee at rediffmail.com  Thu Apr  8 00:50:05 2004
From: smallbee at rediffmail.com (Somesh Bartakkay)
Date: 7 Apr 2004 21:50:05 -0700
Subject: Py2exe installation problem
Message-ID: <8f198e47.0404072050.2f69ea90@posting.google.com>

hello friends

i am trying to install py2exe with win32 installation binary file,
its giving me 'freopen std error'

plz help 

somesh


From chrish at cryptocard.com  Tue Apr 20 13:01:32 2004
From: chrish at cryptocard.com (Chris Herborth)
Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 13:01:32 -0400
Subject: Pygame book
In-Reply-To: <vA8hc.2788$gH6.118@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net>
References: <vA8hc.2788$gH6.118@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <yHchc.10596$CO3.630529@news20.bellglobal.com>

Lucas Raab wrote:

> I was at the bookstore the other day and I noticed a book that dealt with
> making games with Pygame. As I recall the book title was "Game Programming
> with Python." I have an interest in making games, so I was wondering if any
> of you have this book and if you do, could you please give me a nice
> overview and whether I should buy the book or not.

Assuming it's this one:

http://www.amazon.ca/exec/obidos/ASIN/1584502584/

("Game Programing with Python" by Sean Riley) it certainly looks good; I'd 
love to pick up a copy.  I'll definitely keep my eye out for it the next 
time I'm in Chapters.

3 reviewers all gave it 5/5 stars.

There's another one:

http://www.amazon.ca/exec/obidos/ASIN/1592000770/

("Game Programming with Python, Lua and Ruby" by Tom Gutschmidt) Neither of 
the two reviewers liked it (1.5/5 stars).

-- 
Chris Herborth                                     chrish at cryptocard.com
Documentation Overlord, CRYPTOCard Corp.      http://www.cryptocard.com/
Never send a monster to do the work of an evil scientist.
Postatem obscuri lateris nescitis.


From irmen at -nospam-remove-this-xs4all.nl  Tue Apr 13 18:43:33 2004
From: irmen at -nospam-remove-this-xs4all.nl (Irmen de Jong)
Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2004 00:43:33 +0200
Subject: ANN: Snakelets 1.24 (simple-to-use web app server with dynamic
	pages)
Message-ID: <407c6d15$0$562$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>

I'm happy to say that Snakelets 1.24 is available.

Snakelets is a Python web application server, mainly for educational
purposes (but it works fine, mind you). This project provides a threaded web
server, Ypages (HTML+Python language, similar to Java's JSPs) and Snakelets:
code-centric page request handlers (similar to Java's Servlets).
It is possible to run Snakelets off a CD (read-only mode).

You can download from http://snakelets.sourceforge.net
More info on that site.

Enjoy,
--Irmen de Jong.


From skip at pobox.com  Tue Apr  6 12:55:13 2004
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Tue, 6 Apr 2004 11:55:13 -0500
Subject: CSV ignores lineterminator
In-Reply-To: <c4ukap$2lo$1@sea.gmane.org>
References: <c4s8q9$5vc$1@sea.gmane.org>
	<16497.47126.723619.586429@montanaro.dyndns.org>
	<c4shfc$s6e$1@sea.gmane.org>
	<16497.52305.246261.519498@montanaro.dyndns.org>
	<c4ukap$2lo$1@sea.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <16498.57585.149851.596214@montanaro.dyndns.org>


    >> I haven't the time to think deep thoughts about this problem at the
    >> moment. You might want to post to the csv mailing list
    >> (csv at mail.mojam.com) and see if one of the other csv folks can
    >> provide a more coherent/accurate answer.

    Jeffrey> For the record, the answer that I got back from one of the
    Jeffrey> developers is that lineterminator is used only for output.

FWIW, I'm one of the module's developers but don't currently use it daily
and have forgotten many of those sorts of subtleties.  When I was actively
working on it I tended to focus on the somewhat higher level DictReader and
DictWriter classes.

Skip



From dkuhlman at rexx.com  Wed Apr 21 19:35:21 2004
From: dkuhlman at rexx.com (Dave Kuhlman)
Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2004 16:35:21 -0700
Subject: saving interpreter source?
References: <pan.2004.04.21.16.36.47.928286@asdf.asdf>
	<EdidnQQ_h52aOxvdRVn-sQ@powergate.ca>
	<c66qhs$8aupt$1@ID-139865.news.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <c670fo$8r2pe$1@ID-139865.news.uni-berlin.de>

Dave Kuhlman wrote:

> Peter Hansen wrote:
> 
>> Garett wrote:
>> 
>>> Hello, I would like to be able to save source typed into the
>>> interpreter to a file. Kind of like marshal, but I would like to
>>> have the file contain the source so I can edit it later.
>>> Something like inspect.getsource() but for source typed into the
>>> interpreter, not imported from a module. Is this possible? Any
>>> ideas are greatly appreciated. -Garett
>> 
>> Last time I used it, Chris Gonnerman's readline replacement kept
>> a history by default:
>> 
>> http://newcenturycomputers.net/projects/readline.html
> 
> Also, take a look at the following.  It tells you how to configure
> your interactive sessions so that both (1) interactive history
> will be saved to a file and (2) that history will be available in
> subsequent interactive sessions.

Oops.  Forgot the link.  Here it is:

    http://docs.python.org/lib/readline-example.html

Dave

-- 
http://www.rexx.com/~dkuhlman


From pln at cosmic.stanford.edu  Tue Apr  6 21:38:56 2004
From: pln at cosmic.stanford.edu (Patrick L. Nolan)
Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2004 01:38:56 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Tkinter: cut'n'paste from DISABLED window?
Message-ID: <c4vm3g$b2d$1@news.Stanford.EDU>

Our Tkinter application has a big ScrolledText widget which is
a log of everything that happens.  In order to prevent people
from making changes, we have it in DISABLED mode except when
the program wants to write a new entry.  This works OK, except
that sometimes we want to copy out of piece of the contents and
paste it in another window.  When it's DISABLED, it appears
that we can't even select a portion of the text.

Is this an either-or situation?  Or is there some clever way to
get around it?

If it matters, we want this to work on both Linux and Windows.

-- 
*   Patrick L. Nolan                                          *
*   W. W. Hansen Experimental Physics Laboratory (HEPL)       * 
*   Stanford University                                       *


From hyperbob at walla.com  Tue Apr 20 09:49:56 2004
From: hyperbob at walla.com (hyperbob at walla.com)
Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 16:49:56 +0300
Subject: Networking!
Message-ID: <200404201349.i3KDnuf23940@omail4.walla.co.il>

And, of course, thank in advance!

Bob.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Walla! Mail, Get Your Private, Free E-mail from Walla! at:
http://mail.walla.co.il

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From max at alcyone.com  Wed Apr 28 21:40:07 2004
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Wed, 28 Apr 2004 18:40:07 -0700
Subject: Is classless worth consideration
References: <g9k090lhocd1nbd7g230br6ooub113hjt6@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <40905CF7.4A2625A4@alcyone.com>

David MacQuigg wrote:

> The problem we Python programmers are having is understanding the
> fundamental advantage of eliminating classes and working only with
> instances.  The theoretical discussions put me to sleep.  I can't see
> the point of the examples above.  What we need is a simple use case.

I certainly don't see the point in having a prototype-based system if
the declaration for defining a prototype (`proto' in your examples)
looks very much like the way you build a class.  All that seems to
accomplish is a semantic change of "class" to "proto," which doesn't
gain anything.

Compare that to, say, Io -- a prototype-based system -- where there is
no syntax at all for defining a "class" or "prototype."  You simply
clone and attach messages as you go.

-- 
 __ Erik Max Francis && max at alcyone.com && http://www.alcyone.com/max/
/  \ San Jose, CA, USA && 37 20 N 121 53 W && AIM erikmaxfrancis
\__/ Convictions are more dangerous enemies of truth than lies.
    -- Friedrich Nietzsche


From peter at engcorp.com  Fri Apr 16 07:23:48 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2004 07:23:48 -0400
Subject: Difficulty Finding Python Developers
In-Reply-To: <7xwu4gzff2.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
References: <65cbc3dd.0404140641.3501fde8@posting.google.com>
	<5d83790c.0404150701.605782a7@posting.google.com>
	<roy-A17A1C.12565615042004@reader2.panix.com>
	<7xpta8hqe7.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<roy-A844BA.18263715042004@reader2.panix.com>
	<7xsmf4kbac.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<roy-B8AA1E.21270915042004@reader2.panix.com>
	<7x7jwg7ipn.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<GfSdnRKGHIm2_-LdRVn-gg@powergate.ca>
	<7xwu4gzff2.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <Z66dnbE4JdrZX-LdRVn-tA@powergate.ca>

Paul Rubin wrote:

> Peter Hansen <peter at engcorp.com> writes:
> 
>>I thought the discussion was a 3-month project.  To me, that's
>>definitely not something I would classify as a "serious production
>>project".  I know, I know, the length alone shouldn't be enough to
>>call it serious or production or not.  It's just not the term I
>>would apply to something that short.  "Experiment", maybe, or
>>"quickie", or "co-op student project" or something...
> 
> It often means "we have a huge deadline in three months and are forced
> to bring in contractors because the in-house staff is and
> overstretched and not sufficiently up to speed on this stuff".  In
> which case the contractor better need zero ramp-up time.

Sure, it often means that, but here's the OP's wording to keep
us focused on what the discussion was really about:

   We've worked hard to convince our company to migrate our core
   applications to Python, and now we're looking for a Python developer
   in Atlanta to handle a short-term (approx. 3 month) project.

That's not a good way to describe either of your scenarios,
I believe.  I think it's more of an initial foray without the
company's future on the line type of thing...

-Peter


From deetsNOSPAM at web.de  Wed Apr  7 11:51:35 2004
From: deetsNOSPAM at web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Wed, 07 Apr 2004 17:51:35 +0200
Subject: Dynamic creation of an object instance of a class by name
References: <10f99b0f.0404070656.5960e2c8@posting.google.com>
	<c517fs$jk3$01$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <c518c9$2nrrm3$1@ID-111250.news.uni-berlin.de>

> Don't listen to the voices whispering "Use eval()" or "globals() are the
> way to go", make it clean and explicit with a dictionary containing all
> classes you want to expose:

Out of curiosity - why not to use eval? having a dict like yours makes
things look like your average java factory pattern - some explicit
structure, to which access has to be guaranteed and that requires a
registration.

Of course, if you know that you will always only select the class from a
fixed num of classes, your approach ensures that no non-compliant classes
can be selected - but hey, we're dynamic here ;) You never can be totally
sure what you get....
-- 
Regards,

Diez B. Roggisch


From jack at performancedrivers.com  Fri Apr 16 18:48:49 2004
From: jack at performancedrivers.com (Jack Diederich)
Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2004 18:48:49 -0400
Subject: Getters and setters in python, common practise
In-Reply-To: <407e4703$0$255$edfadb0f@dread12.news.tele.dk>
References: <407e402c$1@newsflash.abo.fi>
	<407e4703$0$255$edfadb0f@dread12.news.tele.dk>
Message-ID: <20040416224849.GC794@performancedrivers.com>

On Thu, Apr 15, 2004 at 10:25:07AM +0200, Max M wrote:
> Petter Holmstr?m wrote:
> 
> >Hello,
> >
> >Having a Delphi/Object Pascal-background, I'm very used to using getters 
> >and setters when designing my classes. What is the common practise in 
> >the Python world? Should one use them or not?
> 
> Start with simple object attributes, then convert to attribute functions 
>  using get/set-ers when needed.
> 
Agreed, do a search on some keywords plus "considered (evil|harmful)"

I consider get/set harmful 99% of the time, so read the rest of this
post as opinion.

Getter/Setters seem object oriented, but they usually aren't.
You are hiding nothing, you aren't abstacting anything either.
Someone is still depending on accessing a very particular attribute of 
your class.  If the same amount of code has to be changed when you
alter a getset method as when you alter a member your getset
methods are just adding obscurity and call overhead with no reward.

The object you are calling should get its state explicitly passed in
during __init__, and if it needs something else it should be passed in
on a method call.  get/set methods are typically an indication that an
instance is 'peeking' at something else to figure out what to do.

Make "grep counts" your mantra.  Passing things only at the time they
are actually needed makes things obvious.

import amodule
def myfunc(self):
  # obvious, only gets what it needs.
  amodule.launch_debugger(use_globals=self.vars)

import amodule
def myfunc(self):
  # has to get 'vars' from self, might silently grow to do evil later.
  amodule.launch_debugger(self)

If you limit what methods can use to what they are explicitly given it
also makes writing unit tests much, much easier.

-jackdied


 



From newsgroups at jhrothjr.com  Thu Apr 22 06:58:17 2004
From: newsgroups at jhrothjr.com (John Roth)
Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2004 06:58:17 -0400
Subject: AOP use cases
References: <84fc4588.0404140106.3fa0c55@posting.google.com>
	<slrnc7q1ss.1aa.alf@largo.fayauffre.org>
	<cb035744.0404141130.170f51c4@posting.google.com>
	<slrnc7sgat.vp.alf@largo.fayauffre.org>
	<cb035744.0404160442.2f0b1661@posting.google.com>
	<0pydnSB4WYuieuLdRVn-hQ@powergate.ca>
	<tyfbrlkv3ae.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
	<XYmdnVLB9rjbARrdRVn-vg@powergate.ca>
Message-ID: <108f99vgg6ub501@news.supernews.com>

"Peter Hansen" <peter at engcorp.com> wrote in message
news:XYmdnVLB9rjbARrdRVn-vg at powergate.ca...
> Jacek Generowicz wrote:
> (a lengthy reply, and thank you for taking the time!)
> > Peter Hansen <peter at engcorp.com> writes:
> >>I would be very interested to hear some real-world and real useful
> >>use cases for AOP as well.
> >
> > AOP is about separation of concerns. Let me repeat that: AOP is about
> >           SEPARATION OF CONCERNS.
> [snip]
> > As for real world examples ... if you think of AOP as separation of
> > concerns which you want to be weaved together, then I am sure that you
> > will be able to come up with plenty of excellent real world examples
> > yourself.
>
> Unfortunately, that's just my point.  So far I haven't been able
> to do that, it seems.  The example posted previously with the
> "synchronization wrapper" approach is, however, quite understandable
> and comes from real-world experience that many of us share.  Is
> that AOP?  Is it not AOP?  If it's an application of AOP principles,
> then is AOP anything other than a good practice which some of us
> have been doing for years, prettied up with a nice name.  In other
> words, Just Another Pattern?
>
> Jacek, I appreciate the attempt to clarify, but so far it seems to
> me that *everyone* who talks about AOP just talks in abstract terms
> and isn't willing (or able?) to pin it down with *real* real-world
> examples, just "imagine this" or "wouldn't it be nice if".  You
> seem to be someone who understands AOP well: do you use it?  Could
> you please provide an example from your own uses which demonstrates
> the effectiveness of AOP versus "not AOP" in the same way that the
> synchronization example posted earlier is clearly better when done
> as a wrapper than with the code duplicated everywhere (i.e. with
> the "concerns" not separated)?

Oh, absolutely. "Separation of concerns" is all very nice, but it's
simply another way of looking at program composability. And
composability has turned out to be a very hard problem: there are
no, and I mean no, examples of composable programs where there
was no planning on making it happen.

The other thing to note is that "separation of concerns" imposes
significant overhead, and I'm not just talking about performance.
It cuts down on communication, code sharing and any possibility
of finding structural congruence that might lead to deeper understanding.

John Roth
>
> -Peter




From asldfkjasldfj at asldfkjasldkfjasdf.com  Sat Apr 17 14:11:36 2004
From: asldfkjasldfj at asldfkjasldkfjasdf.com (Jason)
Date: Sat, 17 Apr 2004 18:11:36 GMT
Subject: os.path.dirname adds unremoveable spaces?
References: <Xns94CE7B19D78E7nonenonecom@24.93.43.119>
	<Xns94CE7B9BFCB8Cnonenonecom@24.93.43.121>
	<1082p776qr29u07@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <Xns94CE886B74CF3nonenonecom@24.93.43.119>

That's some great info, thanks.  I never actually figured out what was 
adding the spaces, so I appreciate your explanation.  This is only my third 
day of Python.


> 
> Just to add a couple of notes... You probably shouldn't be using the
> strip() function at all. What if the directory or filename does have
> leading or trailing spaces? Presumably you would want to keep those
> when constructing a full path.
> 
> Also, you did figure out that it was the print statement adding the
> spaces, right? Try this test:
> 
> print 'one', '/', 'two'
> 
> and compare the results with this:
> 
> print '%s/%s' %( 'one', 'two' )
> 
> In the second example, you're giving a single argument to the print
> statement, a string that you've already formatted with the % operator.
> 
> os.path.join is better for dealing with file paths, of course, but
> this will be useful for other things you might want to concatenate and
> format. 
> 
> -Mike
> 
> 
> 



From list-python at ccraig.org  Thu Apr 22 10:51:12 2004
From: list-python at ccraig.org (Christopher A. Craig)
Date: 22 Apr 2004 10:51:12 -0400
Subject: Deleting objects
References: <b4a8ffb6.0404220608.56bf3d63@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <t1w4qrcnk0v.fsf@kermit.wreck.org>

tkpmep at hotmail.com (Thomas Philips) writes:

> Villain dies and executes its destructor (__del__). The game then
> ends. However, when I execute the program in IDLE, IT FINISHES BY
> EXECUTING THE DESTRUCTOR FOR BOTH HERO AND VILLAIN.
> 
> How can this be? As one of the two objects was destroyed prior to the
> end of the game, how can it be re-destroyed when the program ends?

What's happening is that you're calling self.__del__() (which prints a
string, but does not actually delete the object) and at the end of the
program the object is deleted, which calls self.__del__().  I think
you have the causality backwards, object destruction causes
self.__del__() to be run, self.__del__ does not cause object
destruction.

You are, in fact, guaranteed that the object still exists immediately
after a call to self.__del__() because self must still exist for it to
have been there to be called.  It's also impossible for an object to
commit suicide like that, when you call method(obj) a new reference is
created to "obj", so destroying that refrence cannot destroy the last
reference (since there must still be one in the calling namespace).

This is why delete in python is

del obj

instead of

del(obj)

-- 
Christopher A. Craig <list-python at ccraig.org>
"May the source be with you."  -- Open Source Software mantra




From newsgroups at jhrothjr.com  Sat Apr  3 09:14:30 2004
From: newsgroups at jhrothjr.com (John Roth)
Date: Sat, 3 Apr 2004 09:14:30 -0500
Subject: An attempt at guessing the encoding of a (non-unicode) string
References: <c1sq60t7af0lgs1ovilg6ds220dkc0inpd@4ax.com>
	<eppstein-8C467F.14490702042004@news.service.uci.edu>
Message-ID: <106thmedmq162ce@news.supernews.com>


"David Eppstein" <eppstein at ics.uci.edu> wrote in message
news:eppstein-8C467F.14490702042004 at news.service.uci.edu...
> I've been getting decent results by a much simpler approach:
> count the number of characters for which the encoding produces a symbol
> c for which c.isalpha() or c.isspace(), subtract a large penalty if
> using the encoding leads to UnicodeDecodeError, and take the encoding
> with the largest count.

Shouldn't that be isalphanum()? Or does your data not have
very many numbers?

John Roth
>
> -- 
> David Eppstein                      http://www.ics.uci.edu/~eppstein/
> Univ. of California, Irvine, School of Information & Computer Science




From fumanchu at amor.org  Mon Apr 19 22:17:04 2004
From: fumanchu at amor.org (Robert Brewer)
Date: Mon, 19 Apr 2004 19:17:04 -0700
Subject: raw_input
Message-ID: <DE1CF2B4FEC4A342BF62B6B2B334601E562027@opus.amorhq.net>

Marcello Pietrobon wrote:
>         if ( not os.path.exists( dirname) ):
>             msg = 'The directory \'%s\' does not exist. 
> Create it [y/n] 
> ?' % dirname
>             c = raw_input( msg ).lower
>             if ( c == 'y' or c == 'yes' ):
>                 os.makedirs( dirname)
>             else:
>                 raise Exception( 'directory \'%s\' not created, 
> impossible to continue !' % dirname )

try lower() instead of lower.


FuManChu



From mutah at NOSPAM-libertysurf.fr  Tue Apr 27 09:20:51 2004
From: mutah at NOSPAM-libertysurf.fr (Mutah)
Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2004 15:20:51 +0200
Subject: sending an object - twisted or what?
References: <c6llh1$1k8$1@sparta.btinternet.com>
Message-ID: <20040427152051.50234c65.mutah@NOSPAM-libertysurf.fr>

On Tue, 27 Apr 2004 13:00:17 +0000 (UTC)
Paul Sweeney wrote:

> Is twisted the only way to go, or is there something
> simpler for my app?  The code for twisted is fairly simple (I found
> http://twistedmatrix.com/documents/current/howto/pb-copyable)
> but the library is a bit heavy and I don't want to go through the
> hassle of dependencies/compiling etc if there's a simpler way.
> 


Using only modules shipped with python, a simpler way (in term of
dependencies only) would be to pickle the objects and
then send the result throught a socket. 

On the other side, you may need to write more code to do that.

--
mutah


From newsgroups at jhrothjr.com  Mon Apr 12 07:57:38 2004
From: newsgroups at jhrothjr.com (John Roth)
Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2004 07:57:38 -0400
Subject: new-style class instance check
References: <c59uvd$fgh$1@apollon.grec.isp.9tel.net>
Message-ID: <107l13c5tti8876@news.supernews.com>


"Richard Gruet" <rjgruet at yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:c59uvd$fgh$1 at apollon.grec.isp.9tel.net...
> Hi all,
>
> How to determine that an object o is for sure an instance of a new-style
> class, without knowing of which specific class ?
> That is, if I define a function:
>
> def isNewStyleClassInstance(o):
>     pass    ## to be completed
>
> .. I want to pass the following test:
>
> def C: pass
> def CNew(object): pass
>
> assert not isNewStyleClassInstance(C()) # InstanceType
> assert isNewStyleClassInstance(CNew())
> assert not isNewStyleClassInstance(1)    # instance of type int
> # and naturally for all other types of o the function should return False.

The following untested code should work:

import types

def isNewStyleClass(obj):
    if type(obj) is types.InstanceType:
        if hasattr(obj.__class__, "__mro__"):
            return True
    return False



John Roth
>
> Richard
>
>




From has.temp2 at virgin.net  Fri Apr 30 12:55:40 2004
From: has.temp2 at virgin.net (has)
Date: 30 Apr 2004 09:55:40 -0700
Subject: Simple prototyping in Python
References: <slrnc938vm.1v0.ramen@lackingtalent.com>
Message-ID: <69cbbef2.0404300855.20dd436b@posting.google.com>

Dave Benjamin <ramen at lackingtalent.com> wrote in message news:<slrnc938vm.1v0.ramen at lackingtalent.com>...
> The recent conversation on prototype-based OOP and the Prothon project has
> been interesting. I've been playing around with the idea for awhile now,
> actually, since I do a lot of programming in JavaScript/ActionScript. I feel
> like people are focusing too much on the "prototype chain", which to me is
> mainly an attempt at reintroducing inheritance. 

It doesn't even do that; at least not in the sense that class-based OO
defines it, where inheritance merely describes the initial state for
every object created from a class.

To me, the way Prothon and Io do "prototypes" feels more like a leaky
abstraction, where a common internal optimisation for proto-OO systems
has somehow leaked out into user-space. See if I ever find that
Lieberman fellow, think I'll be having a word or two with 'im. ;)


> I almost never use
> inheritance anymore, preferring delegation instead in most cases. What I
> think is much more interesting about the prototype-based style is the
> ability to create and pass around anonymous objects. 

In a proto-OO system all objects are _completely_ anonymous*, having
no 'class' and all being of the same type, 'object'. In this respect,
they're just like strings, lists, dicts, or any other 'anonymous'
type; a list is a list is a list, for example, regardless of how it is
used.


(* To the user, anyway. Of course, they still have internal ids so the
runtime can track 'em, but that's not something the user ever needs to
know about.)

> JavaScript has a syntax
> for this:
> 
> var o = {a: 5, b: 6}

Looks on the surface like AppleScript's record type, which is roughly
analogous to C structs... and useless for anything more than
struct-style usage. While I did read about JS programming in the
dim-n-distant past - it was one of a number of languages I looked at
when learning proto-OO on AS, which lacked any decent learning
material on the topic - I've pretty much forgotten everything since.
So can I ask: is the JS structure more flexible; e.g. can one add
functions to it to operate like methods on the other data in the
structure? Or does it have to provide a second structure for proto-OO
use, as AS does?


From mickel at csc.fi  Thu Apr  8 05:51:34 2004
From: mickel at csc.fi (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Mickel_Gr=F6nroos?=)
Date: Thu, 8 Apr 2004 12:51:34 +0300 (EEST)
Subject: RealPlayer and Python
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0404081245250.16251@sampo.csc.fi>

"RealNetworks has developed a Python binding for their RealMedia client."
			(http://www.python.org/community/users.html)

Does anybody now more about this? Is the Python binding freeware and
downloadable?

I want to access RealPlayer on Windows from Python without having
to use COM. What I need to be able to do is open a video clip
(mpeg-1, mpeg-2 or mpeg-4 will do) and seek to different positions in the
clip, play and stop.

Cheers,

Mickel Gr?nroos

--
Mickel Gr?nroos, application specialist, linguistics, Research support, CSC
PL 405 (Tekniikantie 15 a D), 02101 Espoo, Finland, phone +358-9-4572237
CSC is the Finnish IT center for science, www.csc.fi



From Scott.Daniels at Acm.Org  Sat Apr  3 12:15:13 2004
From: Scott.Daniels at Acm.Org (Scott David Daniels)
Date: Sat, 03 Apr 2004 09:15:13 -0800
Subject: Working with bytes.
In-Reply-To: <mailman.301.1081009879.20120.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.301.1081009879.20120.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <406ef82a@nntp0.pdx.net>

Adam T. Gautier wrote:

> I have been unable to solve a problem.  I am working with MD5 signatures 
> trying to put these in a database.  The MD5 signatures are not generated 
> using the python md5 module but an external application that is 
> producing the valid 16 byte signature formats.  Anyway, these 16 byte 
> signatures are not nescarrally valid strings.  How do I manipulate the 
> bytes?  I need to concatenate the bytes with a SQL statement which is a 
> string.  This works fine for most of the md5 signatures but some blow up 
> with a TypeError.  Because there is a NULL byte or something else.  So I 
> guess my ultimate question is how do I get a prepared SQL statement to 
> accept a series of bytes?  How do I convert the bytes to a valid string 
> like:
> 
> 'x%L9d\340\316\262\363\037\311\345<\262\357\215'
> 
> that can be concatenated?
> 
> Thanks
> 
This should probably do:
     cursor.execute('SELECT author from stored where md5 = ?', md5)

But you might consider changing your approach to store hex strings:
     cursor.execute('SELECT author from stored where md5 = ?',
                    ''.join(['%02x' % byte for byte in md5]))
-- 
-Scott David Daniels
Scott.Daniels at Acm.Org


From anton at vredegoor.doge.nl  Sun Apr 25 06:23:22 2004
From: anton at vredegoor.doge.nl (Anton Vredegoor)
Date: Sun, 25 Apr 2004 12:23:22 +0200
Subject: AOP use cases
References: <cb035744.0404160442.2f0b1661@posting.google.com><0pydnSB4WYuieuLdRVn-hQ@powergate.ca><tyfbrlkv3ae.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch><XYmdnVLB9rjbARrdRVn-vg@powergate.ca><tyf7jw8utoo.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch><c68fj5$7bt$1@news1.wdf.sap-ag.de><tyfvfjst2k9.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch><tyffzav62ux.fsf@lxplus054.cern.ch><mailman.934.1082681832.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<40888443$0$126$3a628fcd@reader3.nntp.hccnet.nl>
	<mailman.937.1082692332.20120.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <408b928f$0$1011$3a628fcd@reader1.nntp.hccnet.nl>

"Terry Reedy" <tjreedy at udel.edu> wrote:

>I agree that separating and wrapping the function as generator or iterator
>is even better that as regular function.  I have use for this.  Thanks.

Your idea of making the wrapping independent of the generator is very
interesting. I have been playing with it and produced a vector class. 

It's not meant for serious production code (who knows however what
such wrapped generators might be used for :-) but it might be
interesting to those who want to invade the dictionary noosphere.

It's at:

http://home.hccnet.nl/a.vredegoor/vector/

Anton




From t-meyer at ihug.co.nz  Wed Apr 14 19:28:08 2004
From: t-meyer at ihug.co.nz (Tony Meyer)
Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2004 11:28:08 +1200
Subject: lauching Spambayes on Mac OS 9
In-Reply-To: <1ED4ECF91CDED24C8D012BCF2B034F1305E92350@its-xchg4.massey.ac.nz>
Message-ID: <1ED4ECF91CDED24C8D012BCF2B034F13026F2B96@its-xchg4.massey.ac.nz>

[FWIW, you'd be better off asking SpamBayes questions in the SpamBayes list
- spambayes at python.org]

> I've installed the latest version of python for mac os 9.
> But now the spambayes indicates that i have to run python 
> setup.py and then run python scripts/sb_server.py...and 
> that's the problem! i can't figure out how to run these commands!

I believe that when you installed Python you ended up with an application
called "PythonLauncher", yes?  If you option-drag the setup.py script to
this you should be offered ways that you can launch the script.  You want to
pass it a command line argument "install".

Once that's done, I believe you can simply double-click sb_server.py to run
it (it doesn't need any command-line arguments).  Then go to
<http://localhost:8880> and you should see the main web interface page.

=Tony Meyer




From haim at babysnakes.org  Sat Apr 17 20:42:04 2004
From: haim at babysnakes.org (Haim Ashkenazi)
Date: Sun, 18 Apr 2004 03:42:04 +0300
Subject: creating panel icons
Message-ID: <c5sist$a39$1@sea.gmane.org>

Hi

I want to write an application that has the option of having an icon on the
panel (to hide and show the main window + menu), something like gaim or
rhythmbox. my first choice was pykde (since I use kde) but although I'm a
python newbie, I got the impression from their mailing list that you have
to wait every time a new kde version is out, for the release of the new
bindings (like now, I have kde 3.2 for almost a month, but I can't use
pykde 3.8...). then I've looked at some python-gnome examples and the only
way I was able to launch the applet was through the gnome-panel menu (which
means that I have to run gnome-panel in kde, I don't like this solution).

does anyone has an idea how can I create something like that?

thanx
--
Haim




From pwatson at redlinepy.com  Fri Apr 16 23:24:38 2004
From: pwatson at redlinepy.com (Paul Watson)
Date: Sat, 17 Apr 2004 03:24:38 GMT
Subject: Python OS
References: <mailman.702.1082138150.20120.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <Wr1gc.11358$zj3.5116@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net>


"Michael Chermside" <mcherm at mcherm.com> wrote in message
news:mailman.702.1082138150.20120.python-list at python.org...
> A Evans writes:
> > I am by no means a programmer at this stage.
> > But as I learn more and more I see Python as the
> > Holy Grail of programming languages
>
> Then you have much to learn. Different languages have different
> strengths, and a skilled programmer will realize that. Python
> is an excellent language for expressing algorithms, doing rapid
> prototyping, and a GREAT many other tasks. But it is poorly
> suited to performing low-level register and bit manipulation.
> If I wanted an inference engine, I might use prolog rather than
> Python.
>
> In the world of OSes, I think a core done in something like C
> with the higher level kernel functionality in Python would make
> an interesting system for experimenting with OS design. But
> performance is likely to be unreasonable for a "production" OS.
> Remember too, that much of what is nice about Python is that it
> provides you with easy access to OS facilities (everything from
> sockets (as a library) to memory management (in the language).
> If you were developing an OS then that wouldn't be available
> until you had built it.
>
> -- Michael Chermside

What if we had a machine whose native instruction set was Parrot bytecode?




From FBatista at uniFON.com.ar  Wed Apr  7 08:39:55 2004
From: FBatista at uniFON.com.ar (Batista, Facundo)
Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2004 09:39:55 -0300 
Subject: String comparison problem
Message-ID: <A128D751272CD411BC9200508BC2194D0338384C@escpl.tcp.com.ar>

[Senthoorkumaran Punniamoorthy]
#- I am printing these information.
#- 
#- 	print string.lower(info_res[2])
#- 	print string.lower(md5sum(f_md5))
#- 	print len(string.lower(info_res[2]))
#- 	print len(string.lower(md5sum(f_md5)))
#- 	print str(string.lower(md5sum(f_md5)) == 
#- string.lower(info_res[2]))
#- 
#- and the output are
#- 
#- 01b7ebfc27437a90cc421c50df8f9ac5
#- 01b7ebfc27437a90cc421c50df8f9ac5
#- 32
#- 32
#- False

Can not reproduce it.

Please, do the following:

str1 = info_res[2]
str2 = md5sum(f_md5)
print str1
print str2

And send them back to us.

.	Facundo





. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
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From rogerb at rogerbinns.com  Mon Apr 26 21:54:08 2004
From: rogerb at rogerbinns.com (Roger Binns)
Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2004 18:54:08 -0700
Subject: Compiler
References: <q6gjc.1945$VA1.1741@doctor.cableinet.net>
	<hs-dnd24VPrHPBDdRVn-hQ@powergate.ca>
	<408db4fb$1@news.unimelb.edu.au>
Message-ID: <r2r0m1-t8p.ln1@home.rogerbinns.com>

Maurice LING wrote:
> i was wondering just how different is the python bytecode from the java
> bytecode? is there a specification for python virtual machine or sort? i
> can foresee a lot of interesting projects and uses that can stem from
> this specification.

I recommend reading all the posts in this earlier thread:

http://groups.google.com/groups?th=f20ad34ef1157bcb

It largely overlaps with what you are thinking and what your next
questions would be :-)

Roger




From jacek.generowicz at cern.ch  Thu Apr  8 04:28:19 2004
From: jacek.generowicz at cern.ch (Jacek Generowicz)
Date: 08 Apr 2004 10:28:19 +0200
Subject: OFF-TOPIC:: Why Lisp is not my favorite programming language
References: <165b3efa.0403030443.4d591f04@posting.google.com>
	<40460dd5$0$5916$7a628cd7@news.club-internet.fr>
	<d771b842.0403040735.3b5200ae@posting.google.com>
	<e87fc4b0.0403221114.254b7ee5@posting.google.com>
	<d771b842.0404061258.655b8e56@posting.google.com>
	<6in670lrldbjkuujle68a526293j57a7mn@4ax.com>
	<95aa1afa.0404070205.94b32e4@posting.google.com>
	<tyfptakvwrl.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
	<jnr87050a6d52edleb8l4movjr3667rb16@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <tyfbrm2x49o.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>

Stephen Horne <steve at ninereeds.fsnet.co.uk> writes:

> and given the kind of metaprogramming possible in Lisp (which for
> compilation to work, must imply just-in-time compilation at run
> time)

Why ?


From simoninusa2001 at yahoo.co.uk  Mon Apr  5 12:27:19 2004
From: simoninusa2001 at yahoo.co.uk (simo)
Date: 5 Apr 2004 09:27:19 -0700
Subject: Module import problems
References: <30260531.0404041725.746befa0@posting.google.com>
	<DJWdnQdYSrHdVe3dRVn-tw@powergate.ca>
Message-ID: <30260531.0404050827.320e3c14@posting.google.com>

login.login or login.login() don't work.

I tried adding...

def simon():
    print "hello"

...to the top of login.py (before the login class) and then calling
login.simon() and that works - but then that's a def, not a class....

So I think the login class is failing to initialise as it can't find
the wx class imported in main.py, because if I run login.py then I get
"...wx not defined" surely I don't have to import wx in every file
(that doesn't work actually)?!

This namespace crap is becomming an inconvenience - jees, do we have
to make everything global?!

Also, does IDLE cache the compiled Python or something, as sometimes
when I change a file and save/run it in the shell, it doesn't change
(I do delete the .pyc files) until I quit and reload IDLE?

This is with Python 2.3.2/Solaris (ActiveState) and 2.3.3/Windows
(python.org) and wxPython 2.4.2.4/2.5.1.5


From gyromagnetic at excite.com  Wed Apr 21 12:42:38 2004
From: gyromagnetic at excite.com (Gyro Funch)
Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2004 10:42:38 -0600
Subject: This is very simple question
In-Reply-To: <b0457a31.0404210754.2a34b6be@posting.google.com>
References: <b0457a31.0404210754.2a34b6be@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <4086a46c@news.ColoState.EDU>

Eric wrote:
> I would want to obtain a list of factors (multiples of 2) given a
> prime number in python.
> 
> For example 13=[8,4,1], 5=[4,1], 7=[4,2,1], 15=[8,4,2,1]
> 
> I would appreciate a fuction which would do this.
> 
> Eric


Below is an ugly and inefficient implementation.

-g


def i2b(i):
     s = ''
     while i:
         s = (i & 1 and '1' or '0') + s 

         i >>= 1 

     return s or '0' 


def find_factors(val): 

     bstr = i2b(val)
     facs = [int(j)*2**i for (i,j) in enumerate(bstr[::-1]) if 
int(j) != 0]
     facs.reverse()
     return facs

if __name__ == '__main__':
     print find_factors(13) == [8,4,1] 

     print find_factors(5)  == [4,1] 

     print find_factors(7)  == [4,2,1] 

     print find_factors(15) == [8,4,2,1]


From lbates at swamisoft.com  Fri Apr 30 15:06:26 2004
From: lbates at swamisoft.com (Larry Bates)
Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2004 14:06:26 -0500
Subject: Dictionnary vs Class for configuration
References: <40929016$0$8635$626a14ce@news.free.fr>
Message-ID: <5p6dnTePS_YtPg_dRVn-hw@comcast.com>

Ultimately you must answer to your professor, but...

I firmly believe that configuration parameters belong
in a configuration file.  ConfigParser module handles
these very well.  Essentially it builds the dictionary
for you in the form of a ConfigParser class instance.
Then when you wish to change a parameter, edit the
config file and the next time the program runs it reads
the new parameters.  You didn't mention your platform,
but I do a lot on Windows and "freeze" my programs using
py2exe, so configuration files come in really handy to
make those "run-time" variables available to the program.
I also find that people are quite comfortable editing
these files.

Config file would look something like:

[database]
name=nanana
userdb=bob
password=********

[other]
timetosleep=100
path=/home/script

program to read this:

import sys
def ini_error(section, option):
    #
    # Insert code here to handle missing parameters
    #
    print "Unable to locate section=%s, option=%s in .INI file" % (section,
option)
    sys.exit(2)


import ConfigParser
ini_filename="/directory/where/config/stored/program.ini"
INI=ConfigParser.ConfigParser()
INI.read(ini_filename)

section="database"
option="name"
try:    database=INI.get(section, option)
except: ini_error(section, option)

option="userdb"
try:    userdb=INI.get(section, option)
except: ini_error(section, option)

option="password"
try:    password=INI.get(section, option)
except: ini_error(section, option)

section="other"
option="name"
try:    timetosleep=INI.getint(section, option)
except: timetosleep=100

option="path"
try:    path=INI.get(section, option)
except: ini_error(section, option)

You get the idea.

Regards,
Larry Bates
Syscon, Inc.

"Famille Delorme" <fadelorme at free.fr> wrote in message
news:40929016$0$8635$626a14ce at news.free.fr...
> Sorry if this discussion are already submited, but I don't find anything
> really interresting for me.
> And sorry for my bad english, it is not my native language.
>
> I wrote a program in Python for a school project and I am in trouble.
> I have make a Python script called conf.py. This file contains
dictionnarys
> for configuration like this:
> config_sql = {
>                 "DATABASE" : "nanana",
>                 "USERDB" : "bob",
>                 "PASSWORD" : "********"
>                     }
> config_script = {
>                 "TIMETOSLEEP" : 100
>                 "PATH" : "/home/script"
>                 }
> The config_section variable is included in each modules (script python)
used
> in my program
> (with from config.py import config_section)
> And the use is like this
>     from conf.py import config_sql
>     print config["DATABASE"]
>
> But my master say it's better to do a class like this
> class config :
>     def __init__(self, part=="") :
>         if (part=="SQL") :
>             self.database="nanana"
>             self.userdb="bob"
>             self.password="*******"
>         elif (part=="SCRIPT") :
>             self.timetosleep=10
>             self.path="/home/script"
>         ....
>
> and the use like this
>     from conf.py import config
>     cfg=config("SQL")
>     print cfg.database
>
> We have do only a file for configuration because the administrator is no
> searching for configuration.
> I want know :
>  - what is more faster, dictionnary method or class method?
>  - what use more ram memory ?
>  - if you are administrator, what method you like for configure program ?
>
> Note:
>     *  the class will not have methods, it is not necessary.
>     * the program is composed of several modules which import
> config_section.
>
>
> Thank you for futures answers,
> 3Zen
>
>
>
>
>
>




From peter at engcorp.com  Tue Apr 27 14:34:22 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2004 14:34:22 -0400
Subject: And *this* is why you need Perl!?
In-Reply-To: <108t8pvam9q139c@corp.supernews.com>
References: <c6ich0$c5mee$1@ID-205437.news.uni-berlin.de>
	<87fzaqmm8t.fsf@strauser.com>
	<38ec68a6.0404262308.50029919@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.49.1083084698.25742.python-list@python.org>
	<108t8pvam9q139c@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <FoCdnQQuQaYyOhPdRVn-vA@powergate.ca>

Cameron Laird wrote:

> In article <mailman.49.1083084698.25742.python-list at python.org>,
> Skip Montanaro  <skip at pobox.com> wrote:
> 
>>differences.  In addition, as Jamie Zawinski suggests, regular expressions
>>are not always the best choice.
> 
> "suggests"?  I thought he was "chanting", or "intoning", or
> "inveighing" or "denouncing" or ...  Well, I'll say it on my
> own behalf:  friends, REs are not always the best choice <URL:
> http://www.unixreview.com/documents/s=2472/uni1037388368795/ >.

"Denouncing" it definitely was.  I wanted to find the original
source for myself, and Google conveniently provided it.  Still
fun reading, and quite relevant to the thread:

   http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=19607&cid=1871619

-Peter


From jgentil at sebistar.net  Thu Apr  1 18:56:43 2004
From: jgentil at sebistar.net (Jon-Pierre Gentil)
Date: Thu, 01 Apr 2004 17:56:43 -0600
Subject: Microsoft making Python.NET
In-Reply-To: <mv6o6092r2k569f48ri26ef9j1h7fhjiak@4ax.com>
References: <mv6o6092r2k569f48ri26ef9j1h7fhjiak@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <106pb1re9uknt43@corp.supernews.com>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Greg wrote:
> The following article from microsoft describes a workaroind for a bug
> in hte beta version of VISUAL PYTHON DOT NET
>
>
http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/default.asp?url=/library/en-us/dnaskdr/html/askgui04032001.asp
>
> When did microsoft put python into the visual studio beta? How did
> this not make big news in developmnt circles?

Erm, ActiveState makes Visual Python.NET.

http://www.activestate.com/Products/Visual_Python/?_x=1

Microsoft often places data about how its software interacts with 3rd
party software in their MSDN knowledgebase.

If you search for Python alone on MSDN you get lots of information on
using Python in ASP using ActivePython.

- --
::  Jon-Pierre Gentil
::  PGP Key ID 0xA21BC30E
::  Jabber: jgentil at jabber.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.2.4 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://enigmail.mozdev.org

iEYEARECAAYFAkBsrDsACgkQOrVFmaIbww4q9QCeLAJlVn8EVsCvltjCz1+QbEjg
xuAAnRx2PYY3gWNoEqinptQoHRcPrMlR
=PwgS
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----


From nospam at kochandreas.com  Mon Apr 26 15:49:01 2004
From: nospam at kochandreas.com (Andreas Koch)
Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2004 21:49:01 +0200
Subject: Andreas' practical language comparison
In-Reply-To: <5ago80thlgfrsrapol1lldi2cq0uulto4n@4ax.com>
References: <c6glig$phm$07$4@news.t-online.com>
	<TrGdnVUrJdjsahbdRVn-iQ@powergate.ca>
	<c6gu81$pk6$05$2@news.t-online.com>
	<408c23b8$0$41746$5fc3050@dreader2.news.tiscali.nl>
	<5ago80thlgfrsrapol1lldi2cq0uulto4n@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <c6jopg$uv8$04$1@news.t-online.com>



Andrea Griffini wrote:

Hi Andrea!

>>I really would like to see the linecount. I do belive that it is one of the
>>indicators of the power of the language and its batteries.
> 
> Then at least you should be talking of the same problem and
> of the same solution to the problem. For example the Delphi
> solution for the 8 queens problem is completely different
> from the ALGOL one (and I must say IMO the Delphi solution
> is quite terrible from an algorithm point of view)

I didn't really get the ALGOL one. My first Delphi version
was using bitmaps and marking endangered fields, but the
code was pretty horrible because i found no elegant way
to fill the diagonals but using 2 loops (~ 20 lines of
not very intuitive additional code)

I find the current version to be quite nicely readable,
while the bitmap solution would probably be faster.

> comparing
> a linecount for that that with a linecount for a totally
> different solution is just nonsense.

Depends. The solution often reflects how certain problems
are handled in a language.

> However this create problems for very different approaches;
> implementing a certain algorithm in prolog and comparing it
> with the same algorithm in C has any meaning ? If say one
> solution uses generators (may be heavily and with backtracking,
> for example in Icon) how can you implement the same solution
> on a language that has no generator concept at all ?
> Even if you manage to do that, what's the point in finding
> that you needed a lot of lines of code to do it ?

I have some tests that require to solve an problem, and some
that require to use an certain algorith. I think you can
encounter both situations in real life. Of course, saying
"A needs 20 lines so its better than B which needs 22 lines"
is idiotic.

> I'm very new to python, but anyway this is my solution to 8
> queen's problem:

Thanks, i allready had lots of submissions by mail this
night. Lots more feedback than expected :-D

> Does this mean that Python is less expressive ? that
> C is less clear ? Or just means one program has been
> written trying to be expressive and the other trying
> to be compact ?
> 
> If I run that Delphi solution for the 8 queens problem
> should I conclude that Python is faster than Delphi ?

Good questions. Any ideas for solutions?

-- 
                                   Andreas
He screamed: THIS IS SIG!


From srumbalski at copper.net  Sat Apr 24 22:09:28 2004
From: srumbalski at copper.net (Steven Rumbalski)
Date: Sat, 24 Apr 2004 22:09:28 -0400
Subject: deleting items within a for loop - mutable indices
References: <4089cb21$1_2@mk-nntp-2.news.uk.tiscali.com>
	<16752bcc.0404240006.491ec7e3@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <408b1c04_2@newsfeed.slurp.net>

James Moughan wrote:

> you could speed either up for largish lists with hashing;
> 
> dict = {}
> for d in deletion_list:
>     dict[d] = 1
> tmp = [x[i] for i in range(len(x)) if not dict.has_key(i)]
> x = tmp

If order doesn't matter and the items are unique you may wish to use
sets.Set from python 2.3 instead of a dict:
>>> from sets import Set
>>> set = Set(['a', 'b', 2, 42])
>>> for item in deletion_list:
...     set.discard(item)
...
>>> print set
Set(['b', 42])

-- 
Steven Rumbalski
news AT rumbalski DOT com


From eric at zomething.com  Tue Apr  6 02:33:53 2004
From: eric at zomething.com (Eric @ Zomething)
Date: Mon, 5 Apr 2004 22:33:53 -0800
Subject: slightly OT: BUT NEEDs to be said
Message-ID: <20040405223353.1541376021.eric@zomething.com>

Greg Ewing wrote:

> Aha! I've been trying to decide what to name the next language
> I invent, and now I know. It will be called:
> 
>     Buffy


Python goes good with databases, how about renaming it:

QuerI



I feel so neked without braces!


Eric
PSU indeed, another myth, there is no conspiracy, no filter, nothing but a desire to be the next PHP (but what would I know, no one ever lets me in on the conspiracies)







From kmmcdonald at wisc.edu  Sun Apr  4 17:35:32 2004
From: kmmcdonald at wisc.edu (Kenneth McDonald)
Date: Sun, 04 Apr 2004 21:35:32 GMT
Subject: GUI Frameworks in Python?
References: <mailman.102.1080629227.20120.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <slrnc7107n.dgu.kmmcdonald@g4.gateway.2wire.net>

In article <mailman.102.1080629227.20120.python-list at python.org>, Hugh Macdonald wrote:
> I've recently been trying out various different GUI frameworks in Python and
> was wondering if I could get your input on the pros and cons of the
> different ones...
>
I would take a strong, close look at Tkinter again. In my opinion,
people have dismissed Tk as 'old technology', but I have seen
nothing else that remotely approaches the power of Tk.

First, a few points:
	1) Tk at the moment looks ugly. There is a major
	effort undergoing (tile--look on sourceforge) to
	develop a themable Tk, and they already have
	some very good-looking Windows-looking screenshots.
	This won't be available in the immediate future,
	but I think it won't be too too far off either.
	The Tk community understands that the ugly,
	nonstandard look is hurting Tk use.

	2) Tkinter is a (relatively) thin layer over
	Tk calls. The best way to use it is to build
	some functions over it to do what you want
	to do, and then reuse those functions.

	3) Tkinter does make Tk into an object oriented
	paradigm. So as you mention, you can subclass
	a Tk widget and then pass in appropriate methods
	of that class as functions. However, you often
	don't even need to do this. A complex widget is
	almost certainly going to be declared as a class
	so just do:

		class MyWidget(Frame):
			def __init__(self)
				button1=Button(command=self.foo1)
				button2=Button(command=self.foo2)

			def foo1(event):...
			def foo2(event):...

	I can't remember if 'command' is the right option to Button,
	but you get the idea.

	3) People often complain about the Tk widget set not
	being powerful enough. This is nonsense. First, read
	through all of the man pages for the Text and Canvas
	widgets--nothing else even comes close. (If something
	does, please let me know). I've looked at QScintilla,
	and it is far less flexible than Text. Then, download
	the BLT addon package for Tcl/Tk and read through
	its graph widget documentation. As for basic widget
	sets, There may be a few widget types missing, but
	it is very few, and what is missing can usually
	be found in an Python extension (MegaWidgets) or
	somewhere else, or coded fairly quickly using Tkinter.

	4) The event-handling mechanism in Tk is awesome
	It is very easy to specify not just single events,
	but also "event sequences"; so, for example, you
	can specify that ^X^S (the emacs save command)
	saves your files.

	5) As I mentioned above, it is often best to put
	a nicer wrapper around some of the Tkinter stuff.
	For example, here is the way I put things into a
	gridded layout:

		button = Button(...)
		label = Label(...)
		subframe = Frame(...)
		mywidget = MyWidget(...)

		grid([
		[button,	'-',		label],
		[subframe,	'x',		'^'], 
		['^',		mywidget,	'-']
		])

	Which, using the captalized first letter of each
	widget's variable, result in a layout like this:

		BBL
		S L
		SMM
	with the middle cell empty. The ^ and - characters
	simply indicate that the cell in the previous
	row/column should be carred into this cell. This
	grid function (not method)
	took me about 8 lines to write, and I've
	put it up on the Tkinter mailing list hosted on
	the Python web site.

	Likewise, I'm in the process of writing something
	to make event binding easier, and will put that
	up when it's done. It will look something like:

	bindevents(widget,
		ca_x_space_b1=fun1,
		m_backspace=fun2,
		Y=fun3,
	)

	Which indicates that fun1 should be invoked on the
	event sequence ctrl-alt-x ctrl-alt-space ctrl-mousebutton1;
	fun2 on meta-backspace; and fun3 on the single key 'Y'.

	There are a few problems with Tk. To use much of the
	Tkinter stuff, you need to have the Tk man pages
	handy, which is why writing more pythonic wrappers
	is a good idea. There is a third-party table widget
	available which is useful for relatively simple
	applications, but which lacks the flexibility and
	power of the Text and Canvas widgets. (Still, it's
	better than a lot of other table implementations
	I've seen.) However, once you've gotten over the
	initial learning curve (which mostly has to do
	with learning the Tk side, and isn't really that
	bad--Brent Welch and a co-author have a brand new
	book out which is just great), you can throw a
	powerful UI together in an amzingly short time.

Cheers,
Ken


From cliechti at gmx.net  Sat Apr 17 14:01:02 2004
From: cliechti at gmx.net (Chris Liechti)
Date: Sat, 17 Apr 2004 18:01:02 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Static Modules...
References: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0404171006210.27811-100000@e5-05.ee.ualberta.ca>
Message-ID: <Xns94CECB9B070C3cliechtigmxnet@62.2.16.4>

Grzegorz Dostatni <grzegorz at ee.ualberta.ca> wrote in
news:Pine.LNX.4.44.0404171006210.27811-100000 at e5-05.ee.ualberta.ca: 
> 
> I had an idea yesterday. (Yes, I know. Sorry).
> 
> If we don't need to declare variables as having a certain type, why do
> we need to import modules into the program?  Isn't the "import sys"
> redundant if all I want is to call "sys.setrecursionlimit(5000)" ? Why
> couldn't we just try loading the module of a name "sys" to see if it
> exists and re-try the command?
> 
> I tried just that. This is meant as a proof of concept (I called it
> autoload.py)
> 
> -------- BEGIN HERE ------
> import sys, inspect
> 
> def autoload_exc(type, value, traceback):
>      modulename = value.args[0].split()[1][1:-1]
>      f_locals = traceback.tb_frame.f_locals
>      f_globals = traceback.tb_frame.f_globals
> 
>      exec "import " + modulename in f_locals, f_globals
>      exec traceback.tb_frame.f_code in f_locals, f_globals
> 
> sys.excepthook = autoload_exc
> 
> ------- END HERE -------
> 
> I know there are problems here. Checking if we have a NameError
> exception is the most glaring one. Still this works for simple things
> as a proof of concept.
> 
> Here is an example of a simple session:
> 
>>>> import autoload
>>>> sys.setrecursionlimit(5000)
>>>> dir(time)
> ['__doc__', '__name__', 'accept2dyear', 'altzone', 'asctime', 'clock',
> 'ctime',
> 'daylight', 'gmtime', 'localtime', 'mktime', 'sleep', 'strftime',
> 'strptime', 's
> truct_time', 'time', 'timezone', 'tzname']
>>>> os.path.join("usr","local","bin")
> 'usr\\local\\bin'
> 
> Any comments?

"import this" -> "Explicit is better than implicit."

you dont easily see what exetrnal modules a program uses. that makes it 
more difficult to debug, and it makes neat things like py2exe/installer 
impossible.

a slight missconception is also there, as variables dont exist out of 
nothing, they start apearing when you assign something to them. (appart 
from that i dont like to say "variable" in python, more like binding names 
to objects.)

so something similar to using "variables" would be:

sys = __import__("sys")

which is already possible without any hack ;-)

however, it could be a nice little hack for interactive sessions when 
playing around in the interpreter. but i'd like to see a message when it 
imports something, so that later when copy&pasting something to a file, i 
dont forget the imports.

chris

-- 
Chris <cliechti at gmx.net>



From NoSpamPlease_rubytuzdaiz at yahoo.com  Mon Apr 26 16:55:02 2004
From: NoSpamPlease_rubytuzdaiz at yahoo.com (Ruby Tuesdays)
Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2004 16:55:02 -0400
Subject: Is Perl *that* good? (was: How's ruby compare to it older
	brother python)
References: <c6ich0$c5mee$1@ID-205437.news.uni-berlin.de>
	<iL3jc.232$Yc.2330@news4.e.nsc.no>
	<108q51j4dscn7dc@corp.supernews.com>
	<knbjc.267$id.3998@news2.e.nsc.no>
Message-ID: <c6jsvd$cspf4$1@ID-205437.news.uni-berlin.de>

Would this super perl program of yours can convert the massive amount of
perl script to ruby or python?

If it could, it would be great so ruby/python programmers does not have to
learn those cryptic perl-ish syntax and the non-OOish scripting language.




From asldfkjasldfj at asldfkjasldkfjasdf.com  Sat Apr 17 12:56:03 2004
From: asldfkjasldfj at asldfkjasldkfjasdf.com (Jason)
Date: Sat, 17 Apr 2004 16:56:03 GMT
Subject: os.path.dirname adds unremoveable spaces?
References: <Xns94CE7B19D78E7nonenonecom@24.93.43.119>
Message-ID: <Xns94CE7B9BFCB8Cnonenonecom@24.93.43.121>

And just as expected, after an hour of searching google groups for an 
answer, I post the question only to figure it out 10 seconds later.  
Sheesh!

I used os.path.join and all is well.




Jason <asldfkjasldfj at asldfkjasldkfjasdf.com> wrote in
news:Xns94CE7B19D78E7nonenonecom at 24.93.43.119: 

> Here's the code I'm using:
> 
> ####################################
> import os, string
> for root, dirs, files in os.walk('/home/_Comedy'):
>         for file in files:
>                 str = os.path.dirname(file)
>                 print root, str.strip(), "/", file.strip()
> 
> ####################################
> The problem is that even after using strip(), it still prints a list
> like this:
> 
> 
> /home/_Comedy/ISIRTA  / ISIRTA - 1966.03.28 - s02e03 - Ali Baba.mp3
> /home/_Comedy/ISIRTA  / ISIRTA - 1966.04.04 - s02e04 - Nelson.mp3
> /home/_Comedy/ISIRTA  / ISIRTA - 1966.04.18 - s02e06 - Angus Prune.mp3
>  
>                        ^^^^^
>                                ^^^^^
> I can't remove these mystery spaces that I'm pointing to no matter
> what I try.  Neither the directories or filenames have spaces before
> or after them.  Even if they did, they should've been removed when I
> used the strip command.
> 
> Any ideas?
> 



From peter at engcorp.com  Tue Apr 13 08:44:33 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2004 08:44:33 -0400
Subject: Logging Stacktrace To File
In-Reply-To: <407bdce5$1_1@newspeer2.tds.net>
References: <407bcbca$1_2@newspeer2.tds.net>
	<eovsk1-e02.ln1@wintermute.g2ctech>
	<407bdce5$1_1@newspeer2.tds.net>
Message-ID: <6tadnU_-4_ksfebdRVn-tw@powergate.ca>

Olaf Meding wrote:

>>... have to catch the exception and then log it to the file.
> 
> 
> Right.  I do also know how to open a file and write to it.
> 
> But how do I get at the stack trace?  I would like to have it look the same
> in the file as what gets printed to the screen.

You're looking for the standard module "traceback", plus possibly
a call to sys.exc_info()...

The Cookbook has some helpful examples, probably more complex than
what you need:

http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Cookbook/Python/Recipe/52215

http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Cookbook/Python/Recipe/65332

-Peter


From eastier at free.fr  Thu Apr 22 05:17:20 2004
From: eastier at free.fr (Emmanuel)
Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2004 11:17:20 +0200
Subject: Reload All
References: <40867308.26DD15BD@free.fr>
Message-ID: <40878DA0.403A0619@free.fr>



Emmanuel a ?crit :

> Hi,
>
> I use a 'reload all' feature in my app, that allow to reload every
> module.
>
> I first try this version :
>
> import sys
> def Reload():
>     for a in sys.modules.values():
>         if ( type(a) == type(sys) ):            # I can't remember why
>             if ( '__file__' in dir ( a ) ):        # to avoid reload of
> extending C module
>                 try:
> ##                    print a.__name__
>                     reload ( a )
>                 except ImportError:
>                     Log ("Reload", "error importing module" +
> a.__name__)
>
> but there are some cases where the order of the reload is important.
> I came into this one :
>
> CODE :
> ===============
> Base.py
> ----------
> class Base:
>     def __init__(self):
>         print "Base Init"
>
> Derived.py
> ------------
> import Base
> class Derived( Base.Base):
>     def __init__(self):
>         Base.Base.__init__(self)
>         print "Derived additional init"
>
> In order to reload all to work, Base _MUST_ be reloaded before Derived.
>
> So I continue with this code, modified from something I get on the forum
> :
> ----------------------------------------------------
> import inspect
>
> def reload_from_root(root):
>     if(not inspect.ismodule(root)):
>         print 'root is not a module!!  Failing.'
>         print type(root)
>
>     #Keeping lists of pairs where pairs are (parent, child)
>     #to establish module relationships and prevent
>     #circular reloads
>     reload_me = [(None, root)]
>     reloaded = []
>
>     while(len(reload_me) > 0):
>         tmp = reload_me.pop()
>
>         for x in inspect.getmembers(tmp[1]):
>           if(inspect.ismodule(x[1])):
>               if ( '__file__' in dir ( x[1] ) ):
>                   if((tmp[1], getattr(tmp[1], x[0])) not in reloaded):
>                       reload_me.append((tmp[1], getattr(tmp[1], x[0])))
>
> ##        reload(tmp[1])            # If I use reload here, the child is
> always reloaded before the parent
>         reloaded.append((tmp[0], tmp[1]))
>
>     reloaded.reverse()
>     TheReloaded = []
>     for pair in reloaded:
>         if (pair[1] not in TheReloaded ):        # Don't reload twice
> the Base, else it can reload in this order :
>                                                                 # Base -
> Derived1 - Base- Derived2
>                                                                 # and
> Derived1 init will fails
>             reload (pair[1])
>             TheReloaded.append( pair[1])
> ----------------------------------------------------
>
> This code solves my current problems, but I can imagine some possible
> issue with two levels hierarchies.

euh... Can I ???





From peter at engcorp.com  Wed Apr 21 15:22:04 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2004 15:22:04 -0400
Subject: CamelCase versus wide_names (Prothon)
In-Reply-To: <e838aa6e.0404211003.4307fe64@posting.google.com>
References: <UHxfc.9323$dZ1.3740@fed1read04> <407F3F20.DB8FA765@alcyone.com>
	<QHIfc.9902$dZ1.6634@fed1read04>
	<e838aa6e.0404211003.4307fe64@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <fOmdnfw0a5FBVBvdRVn-hw@powergate.ca>

A. Lloyd Flanagan wrote:

> "Mark Hahn" <mark at prothon.org> wrote in message news:<QHIfc.9902$dZ1.6634 at fed1read04>...
> 
>>"Erik Max Francis" <max at alcyone.com> wrote ...
>>
>>
>>>I'm surprised you're creating your own language and don't have enough
>>>internal stylistic sense to make this choice yourself.
>>
> FWIW, Mark, I'm with you on this one.  Standardizing variable names
> isn't exactly what I'd call a "deep" design decision.  

 > What's wrong with asking experienced programmers what works best?

Well, threads like this, for one...


From xml-bindings-admin at gnome.org  Sun Apr 25 21:50:02 2004
From: xml-bindings-admin at gnome.org (xml-bindings-admin at gnome.org)
Date: Sun, 25 Apr 2004 21:50:02 -0400
Subject: Your message to xml-bindings awaits moderator approval
Message-ID: <20040426015002.26794.89149.Mailman@moniker.gnome.org>

Your mail to 'xml-bindings' with the subject

    important

Is being held until the list moderator can review it for approval.

The reason it is being held:

    Post by non-member to a members-only list

Either the message will get posted to the list, or you will receive
notification of the moderator's decision.



From sarge at arena.invalid  Thu Apr 29 16:13:33 2004
From: sarge at arena.invalid (Sarge)
Date: Thu, 29 Apr 2004 20:13:33 GMT
Subject: MATLAB2Python
References: <D2Xjc.28117$Qc.1080799@twister1.libero.it>
	<1090ivtaa0b2e26@corp.supernews.com>
	<40904EDE.9060407@erols.com> <715kc.3$i6.251@psinet-eu-nl>
	<mailman.111.1083249490.25742.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <Nldkc.29552$Qc.1128825@twister1.libero.it>

Il 29 apr 2004, John Hunter ha scritto:

> I find python + numeric/numarray + MLAb + scipy + matplotlib to
> be a very workable replacement for matlab,

[cut]

I'm impressed. Especially I liked the scipts, awesome!

Please help me a little more, would you?

Now, I work on WindosXP and on MDK Linux, I have found on the 
Internet and downloaded all the packages you were talking about: 
python, numeric, MLAb, scipy, matplotlib, but I can't figure out in 
which order (and where) I have to install them. I don't want to mess 
things up, because the Windoze box is at work and I have to ask for 
administrator priviledges in order to install/uninstall.

Thanx,
Sarge


From peter at semantico.com  Tue Apr  6 08:51:29 2004
From: peter at semantico.com (Peter Hickman)
Date: Tue, 06 Apr 2004 13:51:29 +0100
Subject: design by contract versus doctest
In-Reply-To: <opr51bkaaeyxrafp@nntphost.dur.ac.uk>
References: <407174ea$0$5066$4d4ebb8e@news.nl.uu.net>
	<4072977b$0$1699$afc38c87@news.easynet.co.uk>
	<opr51bkaaeyxrafp@nntphost.dur.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <4072a7d3$0$23314$afc38c87@news.easynet.co.uk>

Colin Blackburn wrote:

> On Tue, 06 Apr 2004 12:41:45 +0100, Peter Hickman <peter at semantico.com>  
> wrote:
> 
>> Looking at the Eiffel site the contract is enforced within the called  
>> function.
> 
> Only while checking is turned on. It is a design philosophy. You 
> specify  the pre and post-conditions before code is even thought of, it 
> is part of  the design.

Sure but the checks are still made by the function that is called not by 
the caller of the function. Which was my point and contrary to what aku 
said.

aku wrote:
 > But in "design by contract" this responsibility is squarely
 > on the shoulders  of the caller, and is *not* checked in
 > the function.

>> put (x: ELEMENT; key: STRING) is
>>      -- Insert x so that it will be retrievable through key.
>>      require
>>          count <= capacity
>>          not key.empty
>>      do
>>          ... Some insertion algorithm ...
>>      ensure
>>          has (x)
>>          item (key) = x
>>          count = old count + 1
>>      end
> 
> 
> This says that *if* the pre-conditions are met (by the caller) *then* 
> the  post-conditions will be guaranteed to be met (by the called 
> method.)

No this is not entirely true, the require and ensure and both parts of 
the contract. The function will not be called if the require section is 
found to be false (such as count being greater than capacity). Then 
after the function is executed (the do portion) then second half of the 
contract is checked, the ensure section. If these conditions fail then 
the contract is broken and the call fail just as if the require had failed.

The require is a contract between the caller and the called. The ensure 
is, in effect, a contract between the called and itself. You might get 
the require section correct, this would mean that valid parameters have 
been passed to the called by the caller. But this is no guarantee that 
the do section doesnt screw things up.

Which is why we have the ensure section, this checks that the do section 
has not done anything stupid.

Take this as an example (hacked at the keyboard, probably wont work)

double (x: ELEMENT) is
	require
		x > 0
	do
		x = x * -2
	ensure
		x > 0
	end

If you call it with double(-12) then the require section fails. If you 
call it with double(12) then the require section passes but the do 
section is creating a negative number and so the ensure section fails.

Getting the require section to pass is no guarantee that the 
post-conditions (ensure section) will be met, the do section is code 
like anything else and may get things wrong.


From anton at vredegoor.doge.nl  Fri Apr  9 05:26:27 2004
From: anton at vredegoor.doge.nl (Anton Vredegoor)
Date: Fri, 09 Apr 2004 11:26:27 +0200
Subject: OT: Esperanto again (was Re: why is python better than eg.
	smalltalk?? )
References: <20031028061245.12451.00000133@mb-m01.aol.com>
	<mailman.237.1067515722.702.python-list@python.org>
	<opr53783cbmyya52@news.kadnet.dom>
	<4074f954$0$5802$79c14f64@nan-newsreader-02.noos.net>
	<407524df$0$5066$4d4ebb8e@news.nl.uu.net>
	<2dydnWcBufhsy-jdRVn-hA@powergate.ca>
Message-ID: <40766c57$0$131$3a628fcd@reader1.nntp.hccnet.nl>

Peter Hansen <peter at engcorp.com> wrote:

>As the author of that, I have to object slightly.  Yes, it was
>humor, but there are most definitely more people in the
>Netherlands who speak Esperanto than there are people walking
>on the moon, unless my lack of television has led to me missing
>a few key events in the world of space exploration in the last
>few years...

Only if one is using statically typed concepts. There's a common
feeling here that the government operates at a very large distance
from the citizens of this country, and certainly doesn't speak
esperanto.

Anton



From mark at prothon.org  Mon Apr 26 15:23:03 2004
From: mark at prothon.org (Mark Hahn)
Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2004 12:23:03 -0700
Subject: CamelCase versus wide_names (Prothon)
References: <UHxfc.9323$dZ1.3740@fed1read04>
	<6e0680ac.0404211252.7f7b4358@posting.google.com>
	<4086DFA7.9736E7D3@alcyone.com>
	<roy-15454C.18080121042004@reader2.panix.com>
	<PdEhc.19536$dZ1.11964@fed1read04>
	<slrnc8hluh.s60.apardon@trout.vub.ac.be>
	<nkcic.28282$dZ1.27269@fed1read04>
	<slrnc8pknt.s60.apardon@trout.vub.ac.be>
Message-ID: <rkdjc.342$Qy.8@fed1read04>


"Antoon Pardon" <apardon at forel.vub.ac.be> wrote ...

> Where do I subscribe?

The http://prothon.org page will point you to
http://lists.prothon.org/mailman/listinfo




From mrroach at okmaybe.com  Tue Apr 20 13:19:13 2004
From: mrroach at okmaybe.com (Mark Roach)
Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 17:19:13 GMT
Subject: Can't spawn, or popen from daemon
Message-ID: <1082481539.1395.21.camel@localhost>

I am using the daemonize (double-fork) code from the cookbook, and have
bumped into a strange issue. This is what my program is doing:

def main():
    ... useful things ...
    os.popen('/usr/bin/lp -d printer1 %s' % (filename))

def daemonize(func):
    """cookbook recipe from
http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Cookbook/Python/Recipe/66012"""

    ... cut 'n paste code ...

    #Additional closing of stdio

    sys.stdin.close()
    sys.stdout.close()
    sys.stderr.close()

    # this is pretty obscure!
    os.close(0)
    os.close(1)
    os.close(2)

if __name__ == '__main__':
    daemonize(main)

The thing that's strange is that the call to lp never happens... if I
replace daemonize(main) with just main() it works as expected. Is there
some secret requirement on stdin/out for popen/spawn/system calls? I
have tried all three, and they all work when I don't double-fork, but
don't when I do. I can't figure this out at all, and it doesn't help
matters that the problem only occurs in a situation where it is very
hard to debug...

Thanks,

Mark



From peter at engcorp.com  Thu Apr 29 14:13:35 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Thu, 29 Apr 2004 14:13:35 -0400
Subject: reading and removing first x bytes of a file
In-Reply-To: <mailman.115.1083258066.25742.python-list@python.org>
References: <c6r1rc$kl5$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu><XPCdncN34ahjlgzdRVn-tw@powergate.ca><40911B85.5080107@hotmail.com>	<ULWdnWmpDt46vgzdRVn-gw@powergate.ca>
	<mailman.115.1083258066.25742.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <odqdnbtip6RN2AzdRVn_iw@powergate.ca>

Terry Reedy wrote:

> IF the remainder of the file fits in memory, then it can 'moved up' by
> rewriting same file after seeking to beginning of file.  Don't know how
> safe on MAC OSes (ie, degree to which write is atomic).  Of course, if data
> are important, one should have at least a few minutes of battery backup.

I think it's a fair assumption that when the OP asked for a "safe"
way, he meant at least safer than that.  If power failed in the
middle of the update, or a system crash occurred, the file could
well be unrecoverable...

-Peter


From len-1 at telus.net  Tue Apr  6 17:34:22 2004
From: len-1 at telus.net (Lenard Lindstrom)
Date: Tue, 06 Apr 2004 21:34:22 GMT
Subject: Using function parameters to determine method kind
References: <4qrzym6e.fsf@telus.net>
	<95aa1afa.0404050417.2d11b369@posting.google.com>
	<8yh9r7p2.fsf@telus.net>
	<95aa1afa.0404060309.32629338@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <u0zwyeq2.fsf@telus.net>

michele.simionato at poste.it (Michele Simionato) writes:

> Lenard Lindstrom <len-1 at telus.net> wrote in message
>                              news:<8yh9r7p2.fsf at telus.net>...
> > Michele Simionato <michele.simionato at poste.it> wrote:
> > >Lenard Lindstrom <len-1 at telus.net> wrote in message
> > > news:<4qrzym6e.fsf at telus.net>...
> > >> I was wondering if anyone has suggested having Python determine
> > >> a method's kind from its first parameter.
> >  ...
> > >I find relaying on tbe parameter name to specify the kind of method
> > >to be rather fragile. It works most times but not always. What about
> > >inner classes for instance?
... 
> No, I had in mind this (contrived) example:
> 
> class Outer(object):
>       def outermeth(self1):
>           class Inner(object):
>                 def innermeth(self2):
>                     <do-something-with-self1-and-self2>
>           ...
> 
> It is nice to have the ability to give any name to "self".
Yes, I see what you mean. The best I can suggest is:

class Outer(object):
      def outermethod(self1):
          class Inner(object):
                def innermeth(self2):
                    ...
                innermeth = instancemethod(innermeth)
      outermeth = instancemethod(outermethod)

or
      def outermethod(self):
          self1 = self
          ...   def innermethod(self):
                    self2 = self

I believe there is a use for a builtin instancemethod descriptor anyways.
It can wrap callables not of type python function.

>
...
> > Descriptors are unaffected by the function's parameters, so the first
> > parameter can be anything you want. If I am not mistaken, the only
> > methods other that __new__  that currently work without descriptors
> > are instance methods. 
> 
> ?? All methods works with descriptors, what do you mean?
>
By descriptor I mean wrapper classes like staticmethod. A naked function
can only be an instance method descriptor, which by convention has
a first parameter of 'self'. __new__ is exceptional in that it is an
instance method that is always called as an unbound method. I see though
that __new__ would break if accidentally made a class method.

> > Is it not good form for instance methods to
> > start with 'self' anyways? (except maybe for a metaclass's __init__,
> > but this is a special case)
> 
> It is not a special case (no special case is special enough or something
> like that).
I thought a metaclass's __init__ was a special case because it was called
from the meta meta-class, usually by method type.__call__. So maybe it
could be called as an unbound method to avoid problems if it was not
an instance method. But isn't type.__call__ the factory function for
all new-style objects, not just classes? I also overlooked cooperative
__init__ calls for multiple metaclass inheritance. So yes, there is nothing
special about a metaclass's __init__ other than it is usually declared
with 'cls' rather than 'self' as a first parameter. This is enough to
convince me that a method's first argument is not a reliable
indicator of method kind.

All this talk about python functions just being another kind
of descriptor makes me wonder if it is not time to revive
the idea of having type function subclassable:

class C(object):
    def f(c):
        __factory__ = classfunction # No confusion here
        ...

issubclass(classfunction, type(lambda: None)) # True
isinstance(C.f.im_func, classfunction) # True

:-)

Thanks for answering my questions.

Lenard Lindstrom
<len-l at telus.net>


From godoy at ieee.org  Tue Apr 13 07:33:54 2004
From: godoy at ieee.org (Jorge Godoy)
Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2004 08:33:54 -0300
Subject: Logging Stacktrace To File
References: <407bcbca$1_2@newspeer2.tds.net>
Message-ID: <eovsk1-e02.ln1@wintermute.g2ctech>

On Ter 13 Abr 2004 08:15, Olaf Meding wrote:

> In case of an exception, how could I log an exception to a file on disk?

I think you'll have to catch the exception and then log it to the file.
After that, you should raise the exception again.

But I think that if any other part of the program deals with such an
exception before you do, then you might miss it.

-- 
Godoy.      <godoy at ieee.org>


From greg at cosc.canterbury.ac.nz  Tue Apr  6 00:58:25 2004
From: greg at cosc.canterbury.ac.nz (Greg Ewing)
Date: Tue, 06 Apr 2004 16:58:25 +1200
Subject: GUI Frameworks in Python?
In-Reply-To: <8ef9bea6.0404041009.26ae2683@posting.google.com>
References: <mailman.102.1080629227.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<930ba99a.0404030246.786455f5@posting.google.com>
	<8ef9bea6.0404041009.26ae2683@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <c4tddj$2mjvdq$1@ID-169208.news.uni-berlin.de>

Hung Jung Lu wrote:
> Can someone outline some differences/advantages of PyGTK vs. wxPython?

Having had an intensive experience with both recently, I
can give you some of my impressions.

I started a project using wxPython, having heard good things
about it. At first it seemed all right, but as things progressed
I found myself becoming more and more frustrated with it.
Everything seemed to be just a little more complicated than
it needed to be, and I kept on running into bugs, limitations and
strange behaviours that I had to work around.

As an experiment, I tried re-writing it to use PyGtk, to find
out what it would be like. It turned out to be a much more
pleasant experience. The wrapping is very straightforward and
Pythonic, and everything Just Works the way I expect. I've
yet to encounter a single bug or unreasonable limitation.

> A first look at PyGTK shows me a more Unix-like look-and-feel. On the
> other hand, wxPython on Windows does look very much like any other
> Windows applications.

It doesn't look quite the same as native apps on Windows, but
for my purposes it's close enough. If precise Windows authenticity
is important to you, you might have to use wxPython or something else 
that uses native Windows widgets.

> Is the event handling in PyGTK cleaner/better than wxPython?

The basic idea is fairly similar in both, but event handlers
("signal handlers" in Gtk terminology) seem more straightforward
to set up in PyGtk. In wxPython, for example, you have to get the
ID number of the widget and pass that to an event-binding function;
in PyGtk, you just pass the widget itself.

That's just one example of how the PyGtk API is simpler. It might
not sound like much, but lots of little things like that add up
to make me like PyGtk much better.

> Does PyGTK have more widgets?

They seem to be more or less equal in this area, although the
PyGtk text and table/tree widgets may provide more functionality
than their counterparts in wxPython. I'm not sure, since I
haven't had to use much more than the basic functionality of
these widgets. It did seem to be easier to get the PyGtk table
widget to do exactly what I wanted in some cases.

 > Given the lack of comparison, I
> would guess that GTK is unix-friendly, since Unix people usually would
> mention little or nothing about Windows. :)

I would say that PyGtk is more Python-programmer-friendly,
regardless of what platform you're using. The only disadvantage
I can see for Windows is possibly slightly less authentic
appearance.

--
Greg Ewing, Computer Science Dept,
University of Canterbury,
Christchurch, New Zealand
http://www.cosc.canterbury.ac.nz/~greg



From akhar at gmx.net  Sun Apr 18 19:32:04 2004
From: akhar at gmx.net (StŽphane)
Date: Sun, 18 Apr 2004 19:32:04 -0400
Subject: python and apple events ... 
Message-ID: <2004041819320416807%akhar@gmxnet>

Hello, I am wondering if any one knows how I could bind my python app to 
answer to a hotkey combination under mac os x. I know it is possible to do 
so in obj-c but it seems to call a pure C function, and this makes me a bit 
confused on how I would use it under pyobjc here is an example:

#import <Carbon/Carbon.h> 

const UInt32 kLockUIElementHotKeyIdentifier = 'lUIk'; 
const UInt32 kLockUIElementHotKey ? ? ? ?= 109; //F10 will be the key to 
hit, in combo with Cmd 

AppShell * ? ? ? ? ? ?gAppShell = NULL; 

EventHotKeyRef gMyHotKeyRef; 
EventHotKeyID ? ?gMyHotKeyID; 
EventHandlerUPP ? ?gAppHotKeyFunction; 

pascal OSStatus LockUIElementHotKeyHandler(EventHandlerCallRef 
nextHandler,EventRef theEvent, void *userData); 

- (void)awakeFromNib 
{ 
?? ?EventTypeSpec eventType; 

?? ?gAppHotKeyFunction = NewEventHandlerUPP(LockUIElementHotKeyHandler); 
?? ?eventType.eventClass = kEventClassKeyboard; 
?? ?eventType.eventKind = kEventHotKeyPressed; 

InstallApplicationEventHandler(gAppHotKeyFunction,1,&eventType,NULL,NULL); 

?? ?gMyHotKeyID.signature = kLockUIElementHotKeyIdentifier; 
?? ?gMyHotKeyID.id = 1; 

?? ?RegisterEventHotKey(kLockUIElementHotKey, cmdKey, gMyHotKeyID, 
GetApplicationEventTarget(), 0, &gMyHotKeyRef); 
} 

pascal OSStatus LockUIElementHotKeyHandler(EventHandlerCallRef 
nextHandler,EventRef theEvent, void *userData) 
{ 
?? ?// We only register for one hotkey, so if we get here we know the 
hotkey 
combo was pressed; we can do whatever we want here 

?? ?NSLog(@"Hello, World! HotKey was pressed!"); 

?? ?return noErr; 
} 
--- taken from a post on cocoa.mamasam.com

Thanks in advance for any help.
Stephane 


From piet at cs.uu.nl  Wed Apr 21 12:19:10 2004
From: piet at cs.uu.nl (Piet van Oostrum)
Date: 21 Apr 2004 18:19:10 +0200
Subject: emacs for OS X
Message-ID: <wzhdvdl2wx.fsf@Ordesa.local>

>>>>> Tuxtrax <See_my at Signature.com.invalid> (T) wrote:

T> Hi all
T> My editor of choice on linux for python, bar none, is xemacs. I love the 
T> python mode that detects a python file and handles indentation and 
T> coloration for me automagically.

T> I have been using a powerbook for a while now, and I finally found emacs 
T> for aqua in OS X Jaguar (10.2.8). I downloaded it from porkrind.com. 

Really??

-- 
Piet van Oostrum <piet at cs.uu.nl>
URL: http://www.cs.uu.nl/~piet [PGP]
Private email: P.van.Oostrum at hccnet.nl


From peter at engcorp.com  Wed Apr 28 15:14:57 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Wed, 28 Apr 2004 15:14:57 -0400
Subject: Polling eth0?
In-Reply-To: <3cdce0bb529198fa30efae192faeea7a@news.teranews.com>
References: <3cdce0bb529198fa30efae192faeea7a@news.teranews.com>
Message-ID: <q_ydnbwq6f4vnw3d4p2dnA@powergate.ca>

Dennis Craven wrote:

> I intend on writing a small application that monitors incoming/outgoing
> traffic on eth0, and recording the bandwidth usage with monthly
> totals etc..
> 
> Where would be a good place to start in regards to connecting to 
> eth0 and reading such data? 

I would most definitely do this with appropriate calls to "iptables",
specifically using the -Z option with -L, which is designed specifically
for this kind of thing.

(If you aren't familiar with it, it's a Linux firewall command, not
anything to do with Python.  You could use os.popen() to call it
from Python though, and capture the output.)

-Peter


From devnull at example.com  Tue Apr 27 00:08:01 2004
From: devnull at example.com (Derek Fountain)
Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2004 12:08:01 +0800
Subject: urllib2 request blocks
Message-ID: <408ddbdd$0$16600$5a62ac22@freenews.iinet.net.au>

I just tried this:

>>> import urllib2
>>> urllib2.urlopen( "https://passenger.ssc.com/~dmarti/contrib-faq/" )

It sits forever. Loading that URL in a normal browser gets me a popup asking
about server certificate authenticity, which presumably is what urllib2 is
blocking at.

How can I prepare my code for this eventuality and ensure it doesn't block?


From michal65 at hotmail.com  Tue Apr 20 11:21:48 2004
From: michal65 at hotmail.com (Michal Mikolajczyk)
Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 15:21:48 +0000
Subject: Easily convert unicode tuple to python string tuple???
Message-ID: <Law10-F72HfqR77bieL0005f09b@hotmail.com>

Is there a quick way to convert a unicode tuple to a tuple containing python 
strings?

(u'USER', u'NODE', u'HASH', u'IDNBR')

to this:

('USER', 'NODE', 'HASH', 'IDNBR')

I need to be able to do this for a lot of tuples, not just one.

Thanks,
Michael

_________________________________________________________________
Watch LIVE baseball games on your computer with MLB.TV, included with MSN 
Premium! 
http://join.msn.com/?page=features/mlb&pgmarket=en-us/go/onm00200439ave/direct/01/




From grzegorz at ee.ualberta.ca  Sat Apr 17 20:16:53 2004
From: grzegorz at ee.ualberta.ca (Grzegorz Dostatni)
Date: Sat, 17 Apr 2004 20:16:53 -0400
Subject: os.system help
In-Reply-To: <78lgc.3445$AL1.7744@news1.mts.net>
References: <78lgc.3445$AL1.7744@news1.mts.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0404172009580.3096-100000@e5-05.ee.ualberta.ca>


Cheers.

In short ghostscript is not installed by default on windows. You can
install it yourself (http://www.cs.wisc.edu/~ghost/doc/AFPL/get814.htm)
and install. You could also try to package it in your program somehow (for
example including the binary in your program directory). I'm not sure if
it will work properly though.

I don't think there is anything installed by default on windows that can
read .ps files.

You could also try another approach. I am not entirely sure, but I think
that Python Imaging Library supports writing/reading .ps files.

Greg



Advice is what we ask for when we already know the answer but wish we
didn't.
          -- Erica Jong (How to Save Your Own Life, 1977)


On Sat, 17 Apr 2004, Reid Nichol wrote:

> Hello,
>    I have made a program that works wonderfully on OpenBSD but it uses
> os.system to get ghostscript to convert ps to jpeg.  But, I wish this
> program to run on Windows as well.  Is there any way I can snag where
> the gs executable is on Windows?  What it is named?  And so forth.
>
>



From hungjunglu at yahoo.com  Wed Apr  7 10:21:09 2004
From: hungjunglu at yahoo.com (Hung Jung Lu)
Date: 7 Apr 2004 07:21:09 -0700
Subject: painful debugging: techniques?
References: <WqKcc.5327$BF2.680616@news20.bellglobal.com>
	<a3fck1-s7k.ln1@home.rogerbinns.com>
Message-ID: <8ef9bea6.0404070621.342c3b5d@posting.google.com>

"Roger Binns" <rogerb at rogerbinns.com> wrote in message news:<a3fck1-s7k.ln1 at home.rogerbinns.com>...
> 
> I do two things.  One is that I catch exceptions and print out the
> variables for each frame, in addition to the traceback.  The recipe
> is at http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Cookbook/Python/Recipe/52215

I think this will not work for the original poster's case. His
exception happens at the moment of garbage collection, out of his
control. That is, the exception is not coming from one of his
statements, so he can't wrap a try...except block around it. Example:

import weakref

class A: pass

def f():
    a = A()
    w = weakref.ref(a, None)

try:
    f()
except:
    print 'This will never be printed'

--------------------------

The original poster spent 9 hours to find the source of this bug. So
it is a tough problem, and it may well happen to other people. The
question now is: how can we stop this from happening to other people?

This bug does not seem to be catchable by sys.excepthook, which makes
it even tougher.

So far, I think Peter Otten's approach (search through the source
code) may be the most practical way. The fact that this bug cannot be
caught with sys.excepthook should probably be considered a bug in
Python?

I guess the only consolation is that this kind of system bugs don't
seem to happen too often. :)

regards,

Hung Jung


From pm_mon at yahoo.com  Wed Apr 14 14:18:57 2004
From: pm_mon at yahoo.com (Paul Morrow)
Date: 14 Apr 2004 11:18:57 -0700
Subject: Difficulty Finding Python Developers
References: <65cbc3dd.0404140641.3501fde8@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <65cbc3dd.0404141018.36d9d4ce@posting.google.com>

For those who've asked...

This particular project is essentially a web-based registration
application.  We'll probably want to use mod_python to serve the
pages, and Oracle for the database backend.  It will have things like
a white-paper area that requires registration to access, an opt-in/out
email component, and the like.

But we do want the developer to be physically here (in Atlanta).


From jcarlson at uci.edu  Sun Apr 11 04:28:29 2004
From: jcarlson at uci.edu (Josiah Carlson)
Date: Sun, 11 Apr 2004 01:28:29 -0700
Subject: maximum length of a list & tuple
In-Reply-To: <hlhh70drqg7fhvn9e3keosdvdp01ulok7r@4ax.com>
References: <c54lq3$2pe1sf$1@ID-202776.news.uni-berlin.de>
	<bvednZaKK7OybejdRVn-iQ@centurytel.net>
	<c55okv$2o3eql$1@ID-202776.news.uni-berlin.de>
	<c59igu$hto$1@news.service.uci.edu>
	<hlhh70drqg7fhvn9e3keosdvdp01ulok7r@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <c5avps$qh$1@news.service.uci.edu>

>>Run the following and the last thing it prints out is your limit...
>>
>>    c = 1
>>    while c < 2**32:
>>        try:
>>            d = [1]*c
>>            print c
>>            c *= 2
>>        except:
>>            break
> 
> 
> Interesting experiment.  I get 64M on my 384MB machine, which suggests 4
> bytes per list entry.  Of course, now my swap file is packed full, and all
> my apps are running slowly while they page themselves back in...

Far more than 4 bytes per list entry.  4 bytes to store the integers 
themselves, but since integers are Python objects, and lists are arrays 
of pointers to list objects, there is quite a bit of other extra stuff 
attached.

I can't remember exactly how much extra stuff, but it can be found by 
looking through the sources.  You could check the amount of memory used 
before, and the memory used at peak, and divide it by your 64M to find 
out how much is used.  I just did, but I'll also leave it as an exercise 
to the reader.

  - Josiah


From claird at lairds.com  Wed Apr 21 13:34:53 2004
From: claird at lairds.com (Cameron Laird)
Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2004 17:34:53 -0000
Subject: tkinter widget collection project
References: <mailman.850.1082566436.20120.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <108dc5tc7q6bnbd@corp.supernews.com>

In article <mailman.850.1082566436.20120.python-list at python.org>,
 <rick.lawson at rbc.com> wrote:
>-=-=-=-=-=-
>
>I, like a lot of developers, have collected a homegrown set of widgets for
>Tkinter.
>
>Any thoughts on a central repository for Tkinter widgets or widget
>extensions? Stuff that's not in Tkinter or standard extensions like Pmw.
>
>It would be nice if you could go to sourceforge and download a package
>instead of hunting the Vaults, the Activestate cookbook, googling, etc.
>
>If there's enough interest I'd be willing to set the project up on
>sourceforge and provide some (limited) manpower towards packaging submitted
>widgets.
			.
			.
			.
Be certain to leave at least a pointer in the Tkinter Wiki
<URL: http://tkinter.unpythonic.net/wiki/RecentChanges >.
-- 

Cameron Laird <claird at phaseit.net>
Business:  http://www.Phaseit.net


From JimJJewett at yahoo.com  Mon Apr 19 23:22:20 2004
From: JimJJewett at yahoo.com (Jim Jewett)
Date: 19 Apr 2004 20:22:20 -0700
Subject: module parameters
Message-ID: <cab22418.0404191922.30975961@posting.google.com>

I have often wanted to pass arguments to a module.  

Tyically, these are globals, such as DEBUG or VERBOSE that are set 
at the top of the module -- and I want to use a different value.  
For modules that provide a service (such as logging), I would like 
to make my changes before the defaults are set up.

Assuming that the loaded module is cooperative, what is the least 
ugly way to pass these parameters?

(1)  Alter/Check __builtins__
(2)  Alter/Check a "well-known" module, such as settings, for an 
attribute named after the loading module.*
(3)  Alter/check a modsettings module specific to module mod.
(4)  Use an import hook
(5)  Accept that there will be some inefficiencies and reset after 
the initial load.

* I'm not aware of any such well-known module yet, but if others 
agree that it sounds like a good idea, I will write one.

-jJ


From ramen at lackingtalent.com  Mon Apr 19 13:08:41 2004
From: ramen at lackingtalent.com (Dave Benjamin)
Date: Mon, 19 Apr 2004 17:08:41 -0000
Subject: module not callable - why not?
References: <c56jph$rrk$05$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <slrnc882hk.jua.ramen@lackingtalent.com>

In article <c56jph$rrk$05$1 at news.t-online.com>, Diez B. Roggisch wrote:
> Now usually I'd create a file called "quaternion.py", define my quaternion
> class in there and then import and create an instance like this:
> 
> import quaternion
> 
> q = quaternion.quaternion()
> 
> Thats a lot to type. doing a 
> 
> from quaternion import quaternion 
> 
> would solve that - but AFAIK thats considered bad for some reasons.

Lately, I've become particularly fond of creating "factory" functions and
using those instead. For instance:

import Quaternion
q = Quaternion.create()

Aside from the less redundant naming style, factories are nice because they
allow you to return different classes of objects depending on their
parameters. For instance, Quaternion.create() might give you a
Quaternion.SimpleQuaternion, where Quaternion.create(foo='bar') might give
you a FooQuaternion instead. (I don't know much about quaternions, so I
can't give you a better example in that context.)

-- 
.:[ dave benjamin: ramen/[sp00] -:- spoomusic.com -:- ramenfest.com ]:.
:  please talk to your son or daughter about parametric polymorphism. :


From jcarlson at uci.edu  Fri Apr  2 15:49:00 2004
From: jcarlson at uci.edu (Josiah Carlson)
Date: Fri, 02 Apr 2004 12:49:00 -0800
Subject: PLEASE STOP!!!
In-Reply-To: <dguq60988u88lg78ioukgslq4qktjqdk3s@4ax.com>
References: <mailman.210.1080803438.20120.python-list@python.org>	<95aa1afa.0404010352.80de14e@posting.google.com>	<406C40E8.10209@prescod.net>
	<mailman.241.1080839381.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<c4hqh6$6uo$1@news.service.uci.edu>
	<dguq60988u88lg78ioukgslq4qktjqdk3s@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <c4kjq1$1ej$2@news.service.uci.edu>

>>Of course, I suppose the prank is that people think it is a prank, when 
>>in fact, is actually truth.
> 
> 
> Aren't double bluffs great?-)

I don't know about 'great', but nifty, yes.

  - Josiah


From peter at engcorp.com  Mon Apr  5 12:46:54 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Mon, 05 Apr 2004 12:46:54 -0400
Subject: Module import problems
In-Reply-To: <30260531.0404050827.320e3c14@posting.google.com>
References: <30260531.0404041725.746befa0@posting.google.com>
	<DJWdnQdYSrHdVe3dRVn-tw@powergate.ca>
	<30260531.0404050827.320e3c14@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <hJKdncr2I9DiEOzdRVn-hA@powergate.ca>

simo wrote:

> So I think the login class is failing to initialise as it can't find
> the wx class imported in main.py, because if I run login.py then I get
> "...wx not defined" surely I don't have to import wx in every file
> (that doesn't work actually)?!

Yes, of course you do.

> This namespace crap is becomming an inconvenience - jees, do we have
> to make everything global?!

Really, it's not at all that difficult.  Anyway, the namespaces are
there to protect you and simplify the code.  Although you could think
of it as a small inconvenience to have to put imports for various
things wherever you need them, the alternative is vastly more of a
problem.

> Also, does IDLE cache the compiled Python or something, as sometimes
> when I change a file and save/run it in the shell, it doesn't change
> (I do delete the .pyc files) until I quit and reload IDLE?

I never use IDLE, so I can't say.  My preferred approach is simply
running things from the command line (but you get that way when you
start focusing on unit testing rather than code-and-fix...).

-Peter


From richie at entrian.com  Thu Apr 15 12:07:49 2004
From: richie at entrian.com (Richie Hindle)
Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2004 17:07:49 +0100
Subject: CamelCase versus wide_names (Prothon)
In-Reply-To: <UHxfc.9323$dZ1.3740@fed1read04>
References: <UHxfc.9323$dZ1.3740@fed1read04>
Message-ID: <mabt705rroop8joi5m26enggs9uvgm7ut4@4ax.com>


[Mark]
> could you for the moment pretend you were picking your standard from
> scratch (as we are doing in the Prothon world) and give your vote for which
> you'd prefer?

My preference is for camel case, with initial caps only for class names:

--------------------------------------------

moduleVariable = 3

def myFunction(formalParameter):
    localVariable = None

class MyClass:
    def methodName(self, formalParameter):
        localVariable = None
        self.myAttribute = None

--------------------------------------------

I don't have any scientific backing for that - just "it looks right to me".

That said, 99% of the standard library disagrees with me and uses wide_names
(at least for method names) which is a pretty powerful argument for adopting
that as your standard:

$ egrep "( |\t)+def " *.py | wc
   3353   14222  154294
$ egrep "( |\t)+def [a-z0-9]*[A-Z][a-z0-9]*\(" *.py | wc
     39     148    1645

...OK, 98.837%  8-)

Class names are mostly standardised on CamelCase - hardly any have
underscores:

$ egrep "^class +[^(_]+_[^(]*\(" *.py | wc
     11      45     583

-- 
Richie Hindle
richie at entrian.com




From peter at engcorp.com  Thu Apr 29 08:57:21 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Thu, 29 Apr 2004 08:57:21 -0400
Subject: Is classless worth consideration
In-Reply-To: <69cbbef2.0404290259.fd8d71c@posting.google.com>
References: <g9k090lhocd1nbd7g230br6ooub113hjt6@4ax.com>
	<69cbbef2.0404290259.fd8d71c@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <MbWdnTRxROYvZg3dRVn-uw@powergate.ca>

has wrote:

> Well, as far as Python itself is concerned, it'd go a long way in
> eliminating the hideously baroque and increasingly brittle OO model it

I find it especially hard to find the enthusiasm to read past
the highly inflammatory phrase "hideously baroque".  I had to
do a double-take just to confirm that the poster is indeed
talking about Python.

If you think it's baroque**, say so.  Adding "hideous" just tells us
you are already highly biased against Python and poisons anything
else you were about to say...

-Peter

** Please double-check the definition of "baroque" that you are
using as well.  Very little of the meaning that I find at dict.org,
for example, has ever come to mind while using OO with Python.
Terms more like "elegant" and "simple" have come to mind, however,
which is quite at odds with your perception.  Strange, that.


From godoy at ieee.org  Fri Apr 30 14:09:25 2004
From: godoy at ieee.org (Jorge Godoy)
Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2004 15:09:25 -0300
Subject: Dictionnary vs Class for configuration
References: <40929016$0$8635$626a14ce@news.free.fr>
Message-ID: <mpham1-991.ln1@wintermute.g2ctech>

On Sex 30 Abr 2004 14:38, Famille Delorme wrote:

> We have do only a file for configuration because the administrator is no
> searching for configuration.
> I want know :
>  - what is more faster, dictionnary method or class method?
>  - what use more ram memory ?
>  - if you are administrator, what method you like for configure program ?

Not answering directly --- because if it is for your professor and he said
he would like to have it one way you should do what he says... --- but have
you looked at ConfigParser module? 

-- 
Godoy.      <godoy at ieee.org>


From __peter__ at web.de  Wed Apr  7 05:35:16 2004
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Wed, 07 Apr 2004 11:35:16 +0200
Subject: painful debugging: techniques?
References: <WqKcc.5327$BF2.680616@news20.bellglobal.com>
Message-ID: <c50i0k$a2b$03$1@news.t-online.com>

Humpty Dumpty wrote:

> Hello, I've been using python for about 3 months now. Prior to that I did
> C++ for over 5 years. I'm wondering if my debugging techniques are too C++
> oriented.
> 
> E.g., it took me about 9 hrs of debugging to figure out that the second
> parameter to weakref.ref() was being passed as None. This is odd because
> the second parameter is optional, yet its default value is not documented,
> so I assumed that passing None would be fine, and then I forgot that I was
> doing that. It took that long mostly because the exception message was
> "Exception TypeError: 'NoneType not a callable' in None being ignored", ie
> it was being ignored and function from which it was being raised was
> unknown to Python (somehow), *and* it was only being raised upon exit of
> the test (cleanup). So I had no way of knowing where this was being
> raised. It was nasty.
> 
> I'm wondering if there are tricks people use to track down problems like
> this.

The best strategy would have been to avoid the error altogether :-)
Python makes that easy; just test a chunk of code on the command line:

>>> import weakref
>>> class X:
...     pass
...
>>> def cb(a): print "callback"
...
>>> x = X()
>>> w = weakref.ref(x, cb)
>>> del x
callback
>>> x = X()
>>> w = weakref.ref(x, None)
>>> del x
Exception exceptions.TypeError: "'NoneType' object is not callable" in None
ignored

The next best thing is to have a proper test suite and making only small
changes to your program, so that you can easily attribute an error to a
newly added chunk of code. IMHO this is the most promising aproach for
anything comprising more than one module. I admit that I don't know how to
devise test to discover your problem.

So what if all else fails? Let's stick to your example. 
I would see not getting a traceback as a strong hint that something unusual
is going on. In this case you can leverage the fact that python is open
source and search for the place where the error message is generated.
Looking for "%r ignored" and "%s ignored" in *.py of Python's source
distribution yields no result. At this point I would extend the search to
"ignored" in the C source: 48 hits, but most of them in comments. The one
in error.c seems promising. Unfortunately the comment in
PyErr_WriteUnraisable() gives the "wrong" __del__() example, so you need
one more iteration to hunt for PyErr_WriteUnraisable. As the variable names
are well chosen, the match in weakrefobject.c
(PyErr_WriteUnraisable(callback);) gives you a strong clue.

I admit this is tedious and that I had a headstart as you already provided
the connection to weakref, but I reckon that this approach would still take
less than one hour. As a hidden benefit, you learn something about Python's
architecture. Also, in my experience your problem is a particularly hard
one to track down (as far as pure Python is concerned).

At last, what I would call the Columbus approach: do you really need
weakrefs in your application, or is the error an indication that you are
introducing unnecessary complexity in your app? Few eggs actually need to
stand on their tip :-)

Peter





From grzegorz at ee.ualberta.ca  Fri Apr 30 14:32:48 2004
From: grzegorz at ee.ualberta.ca (Grzegorz Dostatni)
Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2004 14:32:48 -0400
Subject: Embedding python into PyQt
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0404301222520.24975-100000@e5-05.ee.ualberta.ca>


Cheers.
What I am trying to do is to embed the python interactive interpreter
inside a qt TextEdit.

I could write an event loop myself, but I was wandering if there exists a
solution somewhere, or the best way to do it myself.

Greg

Advice is what we ask for when we already know the answer but wish we
didn't.
          -- Erica Jong (How to Save Your Own Life, 1977)





From peter at engcorp.com  Mon Apr 12 12:31:26 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2004 12:31:26 -0400
Subject: Problem with dates and daylight savings...
In-Reply-To: <c5ebq7$nls$1@cronkite.cc.uga.edu>
References: <c5ebq7$nls$1@cronkite.cc.uga.edu>
Message-ID: <CdGdncjXwfTDWefdRVn-gg@powergate.ca>

John Taylor wrote:
> I was wondering if some one could explain this anomaly.  I wrote a program to add/subtract
> dates.  For example,
> 
> ./ComputeDay.py 2004/04/12 -7 %Y/%m/%d
> 2004/04/05
> 
> Here is the anomaly....
> ./ComputeDay.py 2004/04/12 -8 %Y/%m/%d
> 2004/04/03
> 
> I would have thought this would have returned the 4th.  I have a feeling that daylight savings
> has something to do with this, as the time changed on the 3rd.
> Can someone explain this?  How can I correct this problem?

Doing date math using seconds is highly error-prone and frustrating.

The way to correct this is to use the datetime module:

c:\>python
Python 2.3.3 (#51, Dec 18 2003, 20:22:39) [MSC v.1200 32 bit (Intel)] on 
win32
 >>> from datetime import datetime, timedelta
 >>> d = datetime(2004,4,12)
 >>> d
datetime.datetime(2004, 4, 12, 0, 0)
 >>> d - timedelta(days=8)
datetime.datetime(2004, 4, 4, 0, 0)

You might be right about the daylight savings time thing, but who
cares? ;-)  The datetime module is the right tool for the job here
and it gets the correct result.

-Peter


From simoninusa2001 at yahoo.co.uk  Thu Apr  8 14:03:20 2004
From: simoninusa2001 at yahoo.co.uk (simo)
Date: 8 Apr 2004 11:03:20 -0700
Subject: wx.SystemSettings - GTK/Win32/Python variances
Message-ID: <30260531.0404081003.136f8759@posting.google.com>

I'm trying to find the vertical scrollbar width across platforms in my
wxPython app, but am having troubles.

It seems that on Linux/wx2.4.2.4 these work:

  wx.SystemSettings_GetSystemMetric(wx.SYS_VSCROLL_X)
  wx.SystemSettings.GetSystemMetric(wx.SYS_VSCROLL_X)

The first is supposed to be wxPython-specific according to the docs.

Neither of these work on Windows/wx2.5.1.5, but this does:

  wx.SystemSettings.GetMetric(wx.SYS_VSCROLL_X)

Note the lack of the second "System".

Also, according to something I've read, "on GTK, the scrollbar is
included in the client size, but on Windows it is not included", which
seems to be crap, from my results, it seems it's not included on
either platform. Maybe this is outdated info and it's changed in 2.4+

I seem to recall that wx.Platform was being deprecated, so how do we
do platform checks to fix the things that vary between implementations
- I don't know what wxMAC does with scrollbars/GetClientSize() !


From jmiller at stsci.edu  Mon Apr 19 15:41:14 2004
From: jmiller at stsci.edu (Todd Miller)
Date: Mon, 19 Apr 2004 15:41:14 -0400
Subject: matplotlib error with tkagg
In-Reply-To: <c5ufpt$nnj$1@lacerta.tiscalinet.it>
References: <c5ufpt$nnj$1@lacerta.tiscalinet.it>
Message-ID: <40842B5A.7090103@stsci.edu>

Federico wrote:
> Hi, I'm using python 2.2 under windows...when I use the 'Agg ' backend it
> works fine but when I try to use the 'TkAgg' one I've an error message that
> says :
> ....
> ....
> "import tkagg                 # Paint image to Tk photo blitter extension
>   File "D:\PYTHON~1.3\Lib\site-packages\matplotlib\backends\tkagg.py", line
> 1, in ?
>     import _tkagg
> ImportError: DLL load failed: " impossible to find the specified procedure

It's not just you...  I develop the TkAgg backend with Python 2.3 (on 
Linux and Solaris and win32) and didn't test the 2.2 installer for 
windows.  TkAgg is apparently broken for Python-2.2 on windows.

> 
> What do I need? 
 >

Nothing.  I think there's a bug in the way the tkagg backend is 
currently built for Windows.  The _tkagg.pyd file appears to be 
dependent on Tcl/Tk 8.4 and I think for Python-2.2 it needs 8.3.

If you're willing to upgrade to Python-2.3, you can have matplotlib with 
  TkAgg today.

Regards,
Todd Miller



From simoninusa2001 at yahoo.co.uk  Thu Apr  8 19:29:18 2004
From: simoninusa2001 at yahoo.co.uk (simo)
Date: 8 Apr 2004 16:29:18 -0700
Subject: wx.SystemSettings - GTK/Win32/Python variances
References: <30260531.0404081003.136f8759@posting.google.com>
	<xsWdnW6bO93qAejd4p2dnA@powergate.ca>
Message-ID: <30260531.0404081529.195b033e@posting.google.com>

Peter Hansen <peter at engcorp.com> wrote:

> http://www.wxpython.org/MigrationGuide.html says that you should
> probably begin using wx.PlatformInfo instead.  This is a tuple.
> On my machine (WinXP) it contains:
> 
>  >>> wx.PlatformInfo
> ('__WXMSW__', 'wxMSW', 'ascii')
> 
> The doc mentioned says to do things like this now:
> 
>     if "__WXGTK__" in wx.PlatformInfo:

Yup, found that just now - I had only looked at the wxWidgets
migration guide, didn't know there was a wxPython version too!

Anyway, I don't need the platform check now as also in the wxPy25
guide they say that we're now to use
wx.SystemSettings_GetMetric(wx.SYS_VSCROLL_X) across all platforms as
they're deprecating the other forms - which seem to be aliases for
backwards compatibility.

Thanks for the help :-)


From iv at an.voras.fer  Fri Apr  2 10:41:38 2004
From: iv at an.voras.fer (Ivan Voras)
Date: Fri, 02 Apr 2004 17:41:38 +0200
Subject: Creating a matrix?
In-Reply-To: <c4k0ho$r73$1@swifty.westend.com>
References: <c4jve7$5vr$1@bagan.srce.hr> <c4k0ho$r73$1@swifty.westend.com>
Message-ID: <c4k1q2$aps$1@bagan.srce.hr>

Peter Maas wrote:
> Ivan Voras wrote:
> 
>> Is there a nice(r) way of creating a list of uniform values? I'm 
>> currently using: list('0'*N), which makes a string and then chops it 
>> up into a list. I need it to create a NxN matrix:
>>
>  > matrix = [list('0'*N) for i in range(N)]
> 
> matrix = [['0']*N]*N

I can't believe I didn't try that one :)

(hmm, actually, I think I tried it but the results were bad for some 
reason... oh well, thank you :) )




From Kyler at news.Lairds.org  Thu Apr  1 00:08:04 2004
From: Kyler at news.Lairds.org (Kyler Laird)
Date: Thu, 01 Apr 2004 05:08:04 GMT
Subject: Python conference slogan
References: <mailman.189.1080759511.20120.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <kmjsj1-89u.ln1@snout.lairds.org>

Shane Hathaway <shane at zope.com> writes:

>I don't know if international folks will 
>get it, though. :-)

If they don't, we just send in troops to explain it
to them, right?

--kyler


From alan.gauld at btinternet.com  Tue Apr 27 16:24:28 2004
From: alan.gauld at btinternet.com (Alan Gauld)
Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2004 21:24:28 +0100
Subject: Tkinter vs. wxPython?
References: <mailman.53.1083089176.25742.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <05gt801pbp6jmprrcbr78npbp2j2q0i94p@4ax.com>

On Tue, 27 Apr 2004 15:03:19 -0300, "Batista, Facundo"
<FBatista at uniFON.com.ar> wrote:
> But, I read somewhere that Tkinter is simpler, but difficult so make big
> complicated stuff. wxPython is more difficult at start, but more scalable.
> 

I've played with both but my GUI needs are simple - usually
putting a nice front end on a CLI script. (Fancy GUI stuff I tend
to do in Delphi - oh the shame of it...)

But my experience suggests similar findings, Tkinter is dead easy
to build small GUIs but it has a limited widget set (even
including PMW) and has no currently maintained graphical GUI
builder so far as I know (SpecPython is long discontnued!)

And there is no doubt that wxPython looks more natural, on
windows at least, although the differences aren't enough to make
me switch. BUt my needs are, as I said, very simple.

Alan G.

Author of the Learn to Program website
http://www.freenetpages.co.uk/hp/alan.gauld


From mwilson at the-wire.com  Sat Apr  3 08:07:45 2004
From: mwilson at the-wire.com (Mel Wilson)
Date: Sat, 03 Apr 2004 08:07:45 -0500
Subject: first python program.. lyrics search
References: <mailman.295.1080961642.20120.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <hcrbAls/K/pL089yn@the-wire.com>

In article <mailman.295.1080961642.20120.python-list at python.org>,
Gustavo Rahal <listas at grahal.net> wrote:
>Hi
>
>I'm trying to learn python by doing something that I think it would be
>nice; Search lyrics using some websites like www.musicsonglyrics.com,
>http://www.sing365.com [ ... ]
>The problem is once I have the M.htm page I don't now how to get from
>the html code the "http://www.musicsonglyrics.com/M/Metallica/Metallica
>lyrics.htm" link to proceed with the search. I tried to read about
>Regular Expressions but I think I'm to dumb for it.
>
>Any ideas? Maybe my approach is completely wrong....

   Look up htmllib in Python libraries.  It's not a small
job, but you'll have learned a lot by the time you've
finished.

        Good Luck.      Mel.


From trevp_spam at trevp.net  Mon Apr 19 22:41:58 2004
From: trevp_spam at trevp.net (Trevor Perrin)
Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 02:41:58 GMT
Subject: block ciphers
In-Reply-To: <7x3c6zqvdy.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
References: <7L_gc.53134$Gn6.49963@newssvr25.news.prodigy.com>
	<7x3c6zqvdy.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <W50hc.24380$NH7.24058@newssvr27.news.prodigy.com>

Paul Rubin wrote:
> [...]
> PEP 272 has an API for both block and stream ciphers, and the block
> cipher API is kind of cumbersome.

In what way?  It seems to me quite simple:

>>> from Crypto.Cipher import AES
>>>
>>> context = AES.new(key, AES.MODE_CBC, iv)
>>> ciphertext = context.encrypt(plaintext)
>>
>>> context = AES.new(key, AES.MODE_CBC, iv)
>>> plaintext = context.decrypt(ciphertext)

A couple of the keyword arguments could be changed ('rounds', and
'counter'), and the IV should probably be writeable as well as readable
(which is how PyCrypto, which implements this PEP, actually works).

Other than that, I've been using this API (and wrapping a few other
cipher libraries with it), and I find it about as close to transparent
and painless as you can get!


> I did some work a while back on
> defining a new block cipher API and posted some about it back then.
> I've been meaning to get that code out of mothballs and propose a new
> PEP.  A sample implementation is at 
> 
>   http://www.nightsong.com/phr/crypto/blockcipher.tgz

I'd be happy with that too, but it seems a smidgen less simple, at least
for the user:

>>> from blockcipher import CBC
>>> import AES
>>>
>>> context = CBC(AES.ecb(key), 'e', iv)
>>> ciphertext = context.update(plaintext)


More importantly though, PEP 272 is already implemented (in PyCrypto),
and it's been in use awhile so people (like me) have code built around
it, and experience with it.

Again, I'd be happy with either, but PEP 272 / PyCrypto seems the
leading horse in this race.


[Trevor]
>>So is this totally out of the question?  Or would it be worth
>>pursuing, through a PEP, or patch, or discussion on python-dev?
> 
> 
> I'm not sure exactly what you're asking.

Me neither, exactly... ;-)  I'm just trying to gauge the interest or
resistance to this, and see if there's any way I could help.


Trevor



From newsgroups at jhrothjr.com  Sat Apr 10 10:20:51 2004
From: newsgroups at jhrothjr.com (John Roth)
Date: Sat, 10 Apr 2004 10:20:51 -0400
Subject: Wrapper round x86 Assembler
References: <8089854e.0404082353.7bf163a2@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <107g0m9sg8h85b3@news.supernews.com>

"Fuzzyman" <michael at foord.net> wrote in message
news:8089854e.0404082353.7bf163a2 at posting.google.com...
> There might be a really good reason why this hasn't been done *or*
> someone might have done it and I just can't find it..... *but*
>
> what about a wrapper to an assembler (presumably for x86 assembly !)
> !!
> I just wrote some code doing binary operations which would have been
> about a zillion times faster in a few lines of assembly code.
>
> I also have fond memories of programming in BBC Basic which had an
> inline assembler - so you could wrap your assembly program in Basic.
> It meant some commercial games started with Basic !
>
> Anyway - it would be easy to reserve some memory with a string like
> object to pass to an 'assembly object' and allow some really nifty
> (and fast) stuff ?? For simple algorithms it would be very neat.
> Avoiding memory overflow etc would be up to the assembly code 'chunk'
> of course.
>
> Regards,
>
>
> Fuzzy

You should be able to write a relatively simple C language extension
that would let you do this. The interface to extensions isn't all that
hard to work with. It would probably be pretty useful for some kinds
of intensive crunching. There's one thing to watch out for: Intel
CPU's are going to a model where dynamically generated code won't
work unless you provide the correct incantation. This is to eliminate a
large class of viri.

John Roth




From michele.simionato at poste.it  Sat Apr  3 04:43:02 2004
From: michele.simionato at poste.it (Michele Simionato)
Date: 3 Apr 2004 01:43:02 -0800
Subject: [maybe OT] Making posters
Message-ID: <95aa1afa.0404030143.58c32975@posting.google.com>

Perhaps this is a bit off topic, but I haven't had look browsing on the
net, so I thought I will try my chance here. I am looking for a
tool taking a postscript file and enlarging it to make a poster.
For instance I want to convert a picture taking a sheet in a poster
made by four sheet that I can compose. Any suggestion? A Python
suggestion would help me to stay on topic ;)


       Michele Simionato


From jepler at unpythonic.net  Sun Apr 18 10:03:52 2004
From: jepler at unpythonic.net (Jeff Epler)
Date: Sun, 18 Apr 2004 09:03:52 -0500
Subject: module not callable - why not?
In-Reply-To: <m265bxh1re.fsf@unique.phony.fqdn>
References: <c56jph$rrk$05$1@news.t-online.com>
	<107dras2heahcb6@news.supernews.com>
	<mailman.491.1081538569.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<8ef9bea6.0404122025.36efc84e@posting.google.com>
	<c5tef0$5hf$1@news.service.uci.edu>
	<7xsmf1fxd9.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<m265bxh1re.fsf@unique.phony.fqdn>
Message-ID: <20040418140351.GA30226@unpythonic.net>

On Sun, Apr 18, 2004 at 09:08:37AM -0400, Heather Coppersmith wrote:
> Note that modules are neither functions nor objects.

Of course modules are objects.  Everything is an object, and most things
are even instances of "object".

>>> import sys
>>> type(sys)
<type 'module'>
>>> isinstance(sys, object)
1

Jeff



From mark at prothon.org  Thu Apr  1 18:57:06 2004
From: mark at prothon.org (Mark Hahn)
Date: Thu, 1 Apr 2004 15:57:06 -0800
Subject: Prothon, metaclasses, Zope [Was: A 'Python like' language]
References: <95aa1afa.0403272243.78d60724@posting.google.com>
	<slrnc6crti.dit.joe@gate.notcharles.ca>
	<eAF9c.48978$cx5.17895@fed1read04> <c4fq68$mk7$1@panix3.panix.com>
	<S7Lac.87628$cx5.10253@fed1read04>
	<95aa1afa.0404010017.2f1683b8@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <m%1bc.100747$cx5.75670@fed1read04>

> it is difficult to give credit to people liking tabs and

> top posting.

Even though I admit to the heinous crime being a "tab-lover", we have
changed Prothon to accept either tabs or spaces in indents, just not both in
the same file.

As far as top-posting, I am trying to improve, it's just hard to change my
reply style after using it for 30 years without getting any complaints
before. I feel like I'm in a twilight-zone episode.

"Michele Simionato" <michele.simionato at poste.it> wrote in message
news:95aa1afa.0404010017.2f1683b8 at posting.google.com...
> "Mark Hahn" <mark at prothon.org> wrote in message
news:<S7Lac.87628$cx5.10253 at fed1read04>...
>
> Original top posting maintained on purpose:
>
> > Does anyone get anything done around here with all the bitching?  I've
been
> > communicating via email for 30 years and never have I seen such
complaining
> > about something so silly.  If you have anything to contribute to Prothon
> > I'll be over in the Prothon lists.  We are too busy creating to have
> > conversations like this over there.
> >
> > You may not be able to tell it, but I'm a nice guy who would really like
> > feedback from intelligent knowledgable people like yourself.  I just
can't
> > take this anymore.
> >
> > Aahz wrote:
> > > In article <eAF9c.48978$cx5.17895 at fed1read04>,
> > > Mark Hahn <mark at prothon.org> wrote:
> > >>
> > >> Self defines having the same attribute in two different prototypes
> > >> illegal.  That seemed extremely constraining to me so I went with the
> > >> Python 2.2 mro solution in Prothon.
> > >
> > > Bad idea.  But I won't tell you why until you stop top-posting and
> > > over-quoting.
>
> Aahz is probably referring to the fact that Python 2.3 has changed the
> MRO since the 2.2 one was a bad idea. See
> http://www.python.org/2.3/mro.html
> for more. A part for this, Aahz is right in pointing out that you
> cannot get
> the attention of a lot of intelligent knowledgable people on c.l.py
> because
> of your postings habits. Actually this is the reason why I have
> downloaded Prothon yet. It is kinda of a pity, since maybe the idea is
> worth, but it is difficult to give credit to people liking tabs and
> top posting. Those are not
> stupid things IMNSHO.
>
>              Michele Simionato




From pf_moore at yahoo.co.uk  Sun Apr  4 11:23:38 2004
From: pf_moore at yahoo.co.uk (Paul Moore)
Date: Sun, 04 Apr 2004 16:23:38 +0100
Subject: __import__() with packages
References: <c4p3f2$2j1tnb$1@ID-165840.news.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <k70vephh.fsf@yahoo.co.uk>

Marco Herrn <herrn at gmx.net> writes:

> I am using the builtin __import__() to import modules. That works for
> simple modules like in this example:

[...]

> But how do I do this with packages? A I understand the documentation
> for __import__(), it must be something like:

Look again at the documentation for __import__. In particular, you
want a function like the following, given in the dicumentation:

def my_import(name):
    mod = __import__(name)
    components = name.split('.')
    for comp in components[1:]:
        mod = getattr(mod, comp)
    return mod

Then, you do

    eggs = my_import("spam.eggs")

I have to admit, I find this annoyingly subtle - 99.99% of the time,
it's my_import() that you want, but you have to define it yourself...

Ah, well. I hope this helps.

Paul
-- 
This signature intentionally left blank


From alloydflanagan at comcast.net  Wed Apr 21 18:06:23 2004
From: alloydflanagan at comcast.net (A. Lloyd Flanagan)
Date: 21 Apr 2004 15:06:23 -0700
Subject: This is very simple question
References: <b0457a31.0404210754.2a34b6be@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <e838aa6e.0404211406.118343ca@posting.google.com>

ekoome at yahoo.com (Eric) wrote in message news:<b0457a31.0404210754.2a34b6be at posting.google.com>...
> I would want to obtain a list of factors (multiples of 2) given a
> prime number in python.
> 
> For example 13=[8,4,1], 5=[4,1], 7=[4,2,1], 15=[8,4,2,1]
> 
> I would appreciate a fuction which would do this.
> 
> Eric

Minor quibble: you don't mean factors.  The only factors of a prime
number are the number itself and one; that's the definition of a prime
number.

Now, do you want a list of all powers of 2 less than a prime number,
OR do you want a list of powers of 2 such that the sum of the numbers
is the given prime number?  For Mersienne primes, which are of the
form (2**n-1) the answer is the same either way.  All your examples
are Mersienne primes.
But look at 11:
11 = 8 + 2 + 1, not 8 + 4 + 2 + 1

Of course, any odd number can be expressed as 2 + 2 + ... + 1, so what
you would really want is the shortest list of powers of 2 that add up
to the prime.


From skip at pobox.com  Mon Apr  5 15:48:38 2004
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Mon, 5 Apr 2004 14:48:38 -0500
Subject: CSV ignores lineterminator
In-Reply-To: <c4s8q9$5vc$1@sea.gmane.org>
References: <c4s8q9$5vc$1@sea.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <16497.47126.723619.586429@montanaro.dyndns.org>

>>>>> "Jeffrey" == Jeffrey Barish <jeffbarish at starband.net> writes:

    Jeffrey> With
    Jeffrey> input_data = ['word1\tword2;word3\tword4;',
    Jeffrey> 'word5\tword6;word7\tword8;']

    Jeffrey> and

    Jeffrey> delimiter = '\t'
    Jeffrey> lineterminator = ';'

    Jeffrey> shouldn't csv.reader(input_data, dialect='mydialect') return

    Jeffrey> ['word1', 'word2']

    Jeffrey> as the first row?  I find that it doesn't matter how I set
    Jeffrey> lineterminator, csv always terminates at the end of the line returned
    Jeffrey> by the iterable object passed as its first argument (input_data, in
    Jeffrey> this case).  I must be missing something basic here.

    Jeffrey> I may be confused about the interaction between what iterable
    Jeffrey> object defines as the next row and what csv.reader defines as
    Jeffrey> the next row.

Perhaps.  Think of input_data as the conceptual result of
f.read().split(lineterminator) (though without loss of the line terminator):

    >>> input_data = ['word1\tword2;', 'word3\tword4;','word5\tword6;', 'word7\tword8;']
    >>> import csv
    >>> class d(csv.excel):
    ...   delimiter='\t'
    ...   lineterminator=';'
    ... 
    >>> rdr = csv.reader(input_data, dialect=d)
    >>> rdr.next()
    ['word1', 'word2;']
    >>> rdr.next()
    ['word3', 'word4;']
    >>> rdr.next()
    ['word5', 'word6;']
    >>> rdr.next()
    ['word7', 'word8;']

Skip



From no_spam at terastat.com  Tue Apr 27 14:16:00 2004
From: no_spam at terastat.com (bap)
Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2004 18:16:00 GMT
Subject: Problem with PY2EXE and VPython
References: <sXgjc.43843$_L6.2802892@attbi_s53>
	<mailman.37.1083048526.25742.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <Arxjc.52471$aQ6.3938768@attbi_s51>

Thanks
   The following files are in the distribution directory created by PY2EXE
cvisual.dll
datetime.pyd
DDRAW.dll
dirlist.txt
GLU32.dll
hanoi.exe
library.zip
multiarray.pyd
OPENGL32.dll
python23.dll
umath.pyd
w9xpopen.exe
_numpy.pyd
_sre.pyd

None appear to be extraneous system files.

Bruce
"Thomas Heller" <theller at python.net> wrote in message
news:mailman.37.1083048526.25742.python-list at python.org...
> "bap" <no_spam at terastat.com> writes:
>
> > When I try to run a program on a clean machine using the VPython
extensions
> > after compiling with PY2EXE I get the following error message: "The
> > procedure entry point IsWow64Process could not be located in the dynamic
> > link library KERNEL32.dll" . The compiled version runs fine on the
original
> > machine (win NT OS) but gives this error message on a machine without
> > VPython installed (Win 2K OS). Is this anything that can be fixed with
> > appropriate parameters in PY2EXE or does it require that VPython be
tweaked?
>
> This error looks like that py2exe is picking up some 'system dlls' into
> the dist directory, which are (sometimes) system specific.
>
> If you post the list of files that are in the dist directory, it might
> be possible to name them.
>
> Earlier versions of py2exe had a builtin list of dlls which should be
> ignored, this list will again be in the next version.
>
> Thomas
>
>




From rjgruet at yahoo.com  Sun Apr 11 06:42:23 2004
From: rjgruet at yahoo.com (Richard Gruet)
Date: Sun, 11 Apr 2004 12:42:23 +0200
Subject: new-style class instance check
References: <mailman.516.1081639807.20120.python-list@python.org><c5a23h$geb$1@apollon.grec.isp.9tel.net>
	<mailman.518.1081644036.20120.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <c5b7f6$sdb$1@apollon.grec.isp.9tel.net>

"Mike C. Fletcher" <mcfletch at rogers.com> wrote in message
news:mailman.518.1081644036.20120.python-list at python.org...

> I'm guessing what you're looking for is "everything that would have had
> a type InstanceType in Python 2.1 and before", but I don't have time to
> track down all the little corner cases for how to implement that, and
> I'd guess you'll find that there's better ways to accomplish what you
> want than using it anyway.  Type-class unification has forever blurred
> the line between class and type, and coding as if it hadn't is just
> going to cause pain IMO.

Right, you are perfectly right.
As Robert (Brewer) guessed, I was actually naively trying to detect whether
an object was an instance of a *user-defined* new-style class in an attempt
to find and equivalent to type(o) is InstanceType for new-style classes - so
my function could be more appropriately named e;G.
isUserDefinedNewStyleClassInstance(o).

Yes,  Type-class unification has blurred  the line between class and type
(and moreover old style classes still exist and contribute to the mess, so
that's now type-old class-new class unification that is needed ;-).

That's just that although I thought I understood  the general concept of
class/type unification, I have not contemplated all its practical
consequences. In *practice* (I mean my every day programmer's life) I am
confused by things like considering a function as a (new-style) class, even
if it makes perfect sense conceptually. I should stop trying to speak in
terms of instances, classes, methods, functions like a die-hard and be more
Zen, simply accept the new (Python) reality as it is. But the fact is, *I*
am now more often puzzled with the new system than I was in the past, I
spend more time wondering what things may mean. Even if my Python code
doesn't seem to break most of the time (meaning that metaphysical questions
don't concern most of coding), my brain has backwards compatibility problems
with these subtle changes.
I guess I'm like dinosaurs and doomed to disappear soon...

A depressed Richard.




From peter at engcorp.com  Sat Apr 24 22:12:52 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Sat, 24 Apr 2004 22:12:52 -0400
Subject: Richards bench benchmark
In-Reply-To: <6748553f.0404241759.1f98a441@posting.google.com>
References: <6748553f.0403291446.27fb7b93@posting.google.com>
	<jLCdnW28-PB6cfXdRVn-iQ@powergate.ca>
	<6748553f.0403300836.744e3e22@posting.google.com>
	<Etqdnd8EeYGjM_TdRVn-jA@powergate.ca>
	<6748553f.0403302317.4595844@posting.google.com>
	<RuKdnc0lmsZFTfHdRVn-ug@powergate.ca>
	<6748553f.0404060802.6e0d708c@posting.google.com>
	<nrKdnaEeNcXAYu_dRVn-vw@powergate.ca>
	<6748553f.0404211342.7591cd8e@posting.google.com>
	<40899240.7020508@engcorp.com>
	<6748553f.0404241759.1f98a441@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <fdydnbG_3Ow4gxbdRVn-hg@powergate.ca>

Duncan Lissett wrote:

> Peter Hansen <peter at engcorp.com> wrote in message news:<40899240.7020508 at engcorp.com>...
> 
>>Okay, first working version is available by going to 
>>http://www.engcorp.com/main/projects/PyBench .
>>
>>That's about all the time I can spare on this for now.
>>Feel free to download, hack, improve, or ignore.
> 
> Excellent! 
> 
> I've added the Python implementation timings:
> http://www.lissett.com/ben/bench1.htm
> 
> I've no prior experience of Python to judge from, but for some reason
> I expected it to be faster than the interpreted implementation of
> Smalltalk designed for mobile devices.

One key item would be to examine the function calls to append().
I'm guessing they are a substantial portion of the execution
time.  A little profiling is in order if anyone is interested
in optimizing it.

I made no effort to convert it to a Pythonic style.  It's
basically C code translated, with one small exception being
the task list which is a simple Python list object instead of
being a linked list.  That means task lookups by id using findtcb()
are quite fast, but the "work queues" used to hold the packets
are actual singly-linked lists, implemented in Python, with
a subroutine called append() used to scan the list and stick
stuff on the end.  This is absolutely, without question, not
the way anyone would write this in Python if they were not
just trying to maintain the original BCPL/C flavour intact.

I'll make a prediction: with an hour or two of work, any
good Python programmer can get a 10x speedup out of the
program.  I don't know how meaningful it will be as a
benchmark at that point, but it is probably fair to compare
with the object-oriented versions which already violate the
original specification (e.g. the Java version, and the
Smalltalk ones Duncan mentioned).

If anyone wants to improve it, feel free.  There are full
unit tests and an acceptance test in bench_test.py, even
covering the format of the output, so this could be a good
chance for someone new to unit testing to get a feel for
it by trying to modify them to drive the code in a new
direction...

-Peter


From gnosticray at aol.com  Thu Apr 15 08:26:20 2004
From: gnosticray at aol.com (A B Carter)
Date: 15 Apr 2004 05:26:20 -0700
Subject: Difficulty Finding Python Developers
References: <65cbc3dd.0404140641.3501fde8@posting.google.com>
	<65cbc3dd.0404141018.36d9d4ce@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <ca6d23f8.0404150426.5daf0b7d@posting.google.com>

pm_mon at yahoo.com (Paul Morrow) wrote in message news:<65cbc3dd.0404141018.36d9d4ce at posting.google.com>...
> For those who've asked...
> 
> This particular project is essentially a web-based registration
> application.  We'll probably want to use mod_python to serve the
> pages, and Oracle for the database backend.  It will have things like
> a white-paper area that requires registration to access, an opt-in/out
> email component, and the like.
> 
> But we do want the developer to be physically here (in Atlanta).

The fact is that if you go to a job site and key in Java, Perl and
Python you are going to get something like a 50 to 10 to 1 ratio of
responses. So you just may have a problem here :) First, here's what
not to do.

1 - Don't blame mgt for being concerned, that's there job.

2 - Don't blame recruiters if they say they're having problems finding
people with Python experience, it's probably because (just guessing
here) that they're having problems finding people with Python
experience.

In general, don't pretend there isn't a problem and blame others for
saying there is. Once you accept that, you are half-way home:

1 - Recognize that an extra effort will be required to find an
experience Python programmer. So put a posting on monsters and other
job sites (don't forget dice.com an excellent site for IT
consultants). Also, educate the recruiters about Python, for instance
make sure they understand the connection between Python and Zope.

2 - Start setting expectations with management. For example, explain
that if there are not a lot of Python programmers it's because it's a
new language that
it builds on the strengths of langauges such as C++, Java and perl
while avoiding their weaknesses. Mention that when you do find a
Python programmer he'll probably be better than your average perl or
Java programmer. Make the argument that you get what you pay for, and
the extra expense of Python is worth it.

3 - With 2 out of the way consider rethinking how this three month
project should be done. If Python talent is scarce then it might make
more sense to develop in-house talent. This may no longer be a three
month project but down the road your in a more solid position, which
,if you think about it, is a basic part of what Python is all about.

4 - If 3 above is accepted in some form then consider training someone
in Python who has strong web skills. There are plenty of people who
know Apache, perl and Oracle and who have done web development. From
everything that I've seen and heard about Python, they could begin to
become productive in a few weeks.


From steveb428pleaseremovethis at hotmail.com  Tue Apr  6 22:30:29 2004
From: steveb428pleaseremovethis at hotmail.com (DilbertFan)
Date: Wed, 07 Apr 2004 02:30:29 GMT
Subject: logging
Message-ID: <9JJcc.47277$Bp7.10602@newssvr25.news.prodigy.com>

I just discovered Python 2.3's logging and how it uses handlers. Absolutely
fucking  brilliant.




From __peter__ at web.de  Tue Apr 20 07:30:28 2004
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 13:30:28 +0200
Subject: Dollar sign ($) on foriegn keyboards? (prothon)
References: <mk3hc.13895$dZ1.10823@fed1read04>
	<c62m70$2hu$06$1@news.t-online.com>
	<slrnc89q11.pnv.joe@gate.notcharles.ca>
Message-ID: <c631kk$9j9$04$1@news.t-online.com>

Joe Mason wrote:

> In article <c62m70$2hu$06$1 at news.t-online.com>, Peter Otten wrote:
>> Mark Hahn wrote:
>> 
>>> We are considering switching to the dollar sign ($) for self, instead of
>>> the
>>> period ( . ) we are using now in Prothon.  Ruby uses the at-sign (@) for
> 
> <snip>
> 
>> Apart from that obj$func() hurts my eye more than obj->func() and
>> obj!func(). As always, Python shines here with its obj.func() :-)
> 
> I believe the suggestion is "$.func()" instead of "self.func()" (the
> Python way) or just ".func()" (the earlier Prothon way).  Or possibly
> the suggestion is for "$func()", although I like $.func() much better.

I skimmed too lightly over the first paragraph and missed that - but still
there is the obj$func() example in Mark's post, and with my Python mindset
(I didn't follow the Prothon discussion closely) I cannot figure out what
that is supposed to mean.

> (I like this better than the ., though I still have no problem with
> writing self all the time, so I prefer sticking to the Python way.  It
> solves my main problem with ., which is when you do have to pass self
> explicitly.  "function_call(param1, ., parm2)" is much more confusing
> than "function_call(param1, $, param2)".)

[OT] Seems to happen all the time with Python - try to simplify at some
point and you pay twice elsewhere. Prothon will have a hard time occupying
a local optimum in beauty/simplicity/usefulness that is both near and
better than Python. This starts with the name, by the way - it evokes the
association of prothotype, which looks quite, er, ungreek :-)

Peter



From secchi at sssup.it  Wed Apr 14 12:50:15 2004
From: secchi at sssup.it (Angelo Secchi)
Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2004 18:50:15 +0200
Subject: Help with dates
Message-ID: <20040414185015.0d77bb6c.secchi@sssup.it>



Hi,
I have a dictionary, data, with the following structure:

>>>data['III']

[['18-07-1994', '283.000000', '292.500000', '27712168.000000']
 ['19-07-1994', '292.000000', '294.500000', '2492106.000000']
 ['20-07-1994', '294.000000', '294.500000', '4881451.000000']
 ['21-07-1994', '292.000000', '291.000000', '2183402.000000']
 ['22-07-1994', '293.000000', '291.000000', '889050.000000']	
 ['25-07-1994', '293.000000', '292.000000', '657931.000000']]

and I would like to create a "sort" of daily increments of, for example,
the second column (ex. 292-283). I say "sort" since I do not need to
consider week ends (i.e. I can consider them as one day) but I would
also like to check if, in my database, there are big time jumps and
possibly discard  corresponding increments. Where should I look for
hints in how to solve this task?

Thanks a lot,

angelo



--
========================================================
 Angelo Secchi                     PGP Key ID:EA280337
========================================================
  Current Position:
  Graduate Fellow Scuola Superiore S.Anna
  Piazza Martiri della Liberta' 33, Pisa, 56127 Italy
  ph.: +39 050 883365
  email: secchi at sssup.it	www.sssup.it/~secchi/
========================================================



From gianluca.trombetta at tin.it  Thu Apr  1 15:37:37 2004
From: gianluca.trombetta at tin.it (Gianluca Trombetta)
Date: Thu, 1 Apr 2004 22:37:37 +0200
Subject: ftpmirror.py in reverse?
References: <xqxwu4zk599.fsf@cola2.ca.boeing.com>
Message-ID: <c4huii$lgb$1@sea.gmane.org>

i don't understand if u would use a python program...
However rsync is very nice and useful for site-mirroring...

Hi

"Harry George" <harry.g.george at boeing.com> ha scritto nel messaggio
news:xqxwu4zk599.fsf at cola2.ca.boeing.com...
> I maintain a website on a local machine, and want to maintain a clone
> of it on a www-visible remote machine via ftp.  I.e., local to remote.
>
> Going remote to local, ftpmirror.py would (I understand) do the job.
>
> Is there some tool available (or even a parameter for ftpmirror.py)
> which can do local-->remote?
>
>
>
> -- 
> harry.g.george at boeing.com
> 6-6M21 BCA CompArch Design Engineering
> Phone: (425) 342-0007
> -- 
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>






From fumanchu at amor.org  Fri Apr  9 14:30:26 2004
From: fumanchu at amor.org (Robert Brewer)
Date: Fri, 9 Apr 2004 11:30:26 -0700
Subject: How to give a descriptor method access?
Message-ID: <DE1CF2B4FEC4A342BF62B6B2B334601E561FD8@opus.amorhq.net>

Tom Loredo wrote:
> I'd like to have objects with members that return values when accessed
> by name, but the members must also have methods that can 
> manipulate the
> values and store additional state.

[Sorry, Tom, about getting cut off before--dang Outlook.]

If the additional state applies to all instances of the class, a common
approach is to return or modify the descriptor itself at the class
level:

    def __get__(self, inst, owner):
        if inst is None:
            return self
        else:
            return getattr(inst, self.name)

...you can then add attributes to the descriptor. 'inst' will be None
when the descriptor is called on the class instead of on an instance.

> PS:  In case being more concrete helps, an example would be that
> Parameter stores the value of a float parameter in a model, so a.x
> should return a float value (as quickly as possible---this will be
> accessed a lot).  But I'd like to set allowed ranges to such values,
> define grids they'll be stepped on, store whether they can be 
> maximized
> or integrated over in a calculation, etc..  So I want to be able to
> call a.x.range(1,10) and have it store 1 and 10 as the range 
> for future
> values of a.x, have a.x.vary() set a variable saying it can be varied
> in a fit, etc., and do this having multiple Parameter instances
> in a class, and multiple instances of that class.

Descriptors IMO aren't really designed for that--they're more of a
class-level concept. You can of course, store per-instance data within
the descriptor:

class Parameter(object):
    """Insert named descriptor into calling instance."""
    def __init__(self, name):
        self.name = name + 'val'
        self.ranges = {}

    def __set__(self, inst, val):
        # print 'setting val'
        setattr(inst, self.name, val)
        self.ranges[inst] = (1, 10)

...but 1) that gets ugly quickly, and 2) the easiest way to beautify it
is to put that "ranges" dictionary back into the owner class, and
3)..then why bother passing it through the descriptor? ;)

I think the clean solution to your particular example would be to make x
and y more robust classes, probably subclassed from the appropriate
type:

class Parameter(int):
    def __init__(self, value, range=(1,10)):
        int.__init__(self, value)
        self.range = range

class test(object):
    x = Parameter(3)
    y = Parameter(6, (0, 25))


...in which case (untested):

>>> test.x
3
>>> test.x.range
(1, 10)
>>> test.y
6
>>> test.y.range
(0, 25)


...something like that. :)


Robert Brewer
MIS
Amor Ministries
fumanchu at amor.org



From drlinux at columbus.rr.com  Sat Apr 17 12:14:33 2004
From: drlinux at columbus.rr.com (Dave Reed)
Date: Sat, 17 Apr 2004 12:14:33 -0400
Subject: Kuhlman's tutorials pretty good
In-Reply-To: <c5pa6i$4apir$1@ID-139865.news.uni-berlin.de>
References: <407E1E20.D0216E92@doe.carleton.ca>
	<mailman.675.1082104520.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<c5pa6i$4apir$1@ID-139865.news.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <200404171214.33753.drlinux@columbus.rr.com>

On Friday 16 April 2004 14:55, Dave Kuhlman wrote:
> gabor wrote:
> 
> [snip]
> > 
> > hmmm..could you also put on the web the latex sources? (or a
> > ps/pdf version?)...
> > 
> > or if it is already there, i can't find it :(
> 
> The TeX/LaTeX sources for these tutorials and postscript (.ps)
> and PDF files are in:
> 
>     http://www.rexx.com/~dkuhlman/python_x01_training.zip
> 
> A few comments:
> 
> I was able, just now, to generate ps and pdf files.  Thanks for
> asking this question.  You motivated me to try to generate them.  I
> did not know that I could do that.
> 
> The fonts in the ps files are not so good, and the fonts in the pdf
> files are terrible.  Maybe they will appear better on your system.
> If you look at them, please let me know.

<snip>

I've always had luck with:

dvips -Ppdf file.dvi -o
ps2pdf file.ps

I believe the -Ppdf embeds the fonts in the PostScript file and then
ps2pdf uses those giving better results.

Dave





From gaz at effective-it.co.uk  Wed Apr 28 13:26:47 2004
From: gaz at effective-it.co.uk (Gaz Oakley)
Date: Wed, 28 Apr 2004 18:26:47 +0100
Subject: MySQL Connectivity
Message-ID: <JDENJPFKAIAIEFIHMBLDKEAOCAAA.gaz@effective-it.co.uk>

Hi,

I've looked through the mailing list archives trying to find the best ways
of connecting to a MySQL database using Python. From what I've seen, people
seem to be using http://sourceforge.net/projects/mysql-python/. First of
all, is this the recommended method of connectivity? (I'm assuming it is).

If it is, I've experienced a problem here. I'd ideally like to have Python
2.3 installed with MySQLdb. Following the instructions on
http://sourceforge.net/forum/forum.php?thread_id=948054&forum_id=70461 I
tried to build an RPM that would work with Python 2.3. It appears to be
using rpm -ba to build. I can fix that, but it would indicate that the build
script is somewhat out of date (rpmbuild has been around for a long time
now). Are there any newer RPM's for this anywhere or any newer build
scripts? Is the testing version relatively stable? (although I havent
checked this is fixing the build problem yet)

Thanks,

Gareth Oakley




From len-1 at telus.net  Tue Apr  6 20:05:04 2004
From: len-1 at telus.net (Lenard Lindstrom)
Date: Wed, 07 Apr 2004 00:05:04 GMT
Subject: run-time construction of methods
References: <opr50f2cg7myya52@news.kadnet.dom>
Message-ID: <oeq4y7qs.fsf@telus.net>

"Carlo v. Dango" <oest at soetu.eu> writes:

> Hello all.
> 
> I am in the need of wrapping certain objects at run-time. My initial
> approach was:
> 
> import inspect, new
> def make_wrapper(obj, methodName):
>      cls = obj.__class__
>      wrapmth = getattr(obj, methodName)
>      print "************ ", methodName
>      def wrapper(self, *args, **kwargs):
>          print "**before ", methodName
>          return wrapmth(*args, **kwargs)
>      return wrapper
> 
> class Person(object):
>      def __init__(self, age):
>          super(Person, self).__init__()
>          self.age = age
> 
>      def getAge(self):
>          return self.age
> 
>      def setAge(self, newage):
>          """sets the age of the person"""
>          self.age = newage
> 
> p = Person(33)
> setattr(p, "setAge", new.instancemethod(make_wrapper(p,"setAge"), p,
> p.__class__))
> p.setAge(22)
> print "age is ", p.getAge()
>
I like the approach of using a bound method to p to create a
new instance specific method for p.

>... 
> def make_wrapper(obj, methodName):
>      cls = obj.__class__
>      wrapmth = getattr(obj, methodName)
>      print "************ ", methodName
>      wrapperstr = """def wrapper(self, *args, **kwargs):
>          print "**before ", methodName
>          return wrapmth(*args, **kwargs)"""
>      exec(wrapperstr, globals(), locals())
>      return wrapper
> 
> but I get the error
> 
> NameError: global name 'methodName' is not defined
>
exec does not create a closure within the function calling it.
That is its downside. So everything is either local to wrapmth,
eg. parameters and variables created within the function, or
global. Fortunately you can still create a closure with exec
by declaring a function within a function. Here's my rewrite.
I hope it works for you.

def make_wrapper(obj, methodName):
    cls = obj.__class__
    wrapmth = getattr(obj, methodName)
    print "********** ", methodName
    wrapperstr = """\
def _closure(_wrapmth):
    def wrapper(self, *args, **kwds):
        "I wrap method %(methodName)s"
        print "**before %(methodName)s"
        return _wrapmth(*args, **kwds)
    return wrapper
_wrapper = _closure(wrapmth)
""" % {'methodName': methodName} # Insert strings directly into code
    locs = {'wrapmth': wrapmth} # Keep namespace clean to avoid conflicts
    exec(wrapperstr, {}, locs)
    return locs['_wrapper'] # and here is the result

See how the argument to _closure is the 'local' you want to keep
around. Also I don't use globals() or locals() directly since
they are cluttered. When you start trying to make the parameters
of wrapper meaningful you will want to minimize the chance
the parameter names conflict with other names within the scope
of the exec. That is also why _closure and _wrapmth begin
with underscores. You might want to choose even more cryptic names.
Also, inlining strings such as methodName instead of passing them
as variables into the exec scope reduces the chance of conflict.

Lenard Lindstrom
<len-l at telus.net>


From hungjunglu at yahoo.com  Fri Apr 30 04:01:32 2004
From: hungjunglu at yahoo.com (Hung Jung Lu)
Date: 30 Apr 2004 01:01:32 -0700
Subject: Is classless worth consideration
References: <g9k090lhocd1nbd7g230br6ooub113hjt6@4ax.com>
	<69cbbef2.0404290259.fd8d71c@posting.google.com>
	<MbWdnTRxROYvZg3dRVn-uw@powergate.ca>
	<69cbbef2.0404291209.7a98a799@posting.google.com>
	<boydnb9qfrqWJQzdRVn-gw@powergate.ca>
Message-ID: <8ef9bea6.0404292307.66b78b83@posting.google.com>

Peter Hansen <peter at engcorp.com> wrote in message news:<boydnb9qfrqWJQzdRVn-gw at powergate.ca>...
> has wrote:
> > Compared to C++, I expect it's a real breath of fresh air. But
> > compared to how something like Self does OO, it is indeed hideously
> > baroque.
> 
> Oh, now you're qualifying the statement.  In comparison to
> something less baroque, it's baroque.  Fair enough...

Good that things cleared up. I have also pointed out previously that
Python uses 5 devices where prototype-based needs only one: (a) class,
(b) instance, (c) module, (d) metaclass, (e) scope. If this is not
hideously baroque, then, Houston, we've got a problem. If you can
really think outside the box, you'd pitch in also: (f) aspect.

regards,

Hung Jung


From theller at python.net  Tue Apr 27 15:06:05 2004
From: theller at python.net (Thomas Heller)
Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2004 21:06:05 +0200
Subject: MS COM early and late binding
References: <9e5ea2c4.0404271039.2da829b5@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <4qr5p7fm.fsf@python.net>

OlafMeding at compuserve.com (Olaf Meding) writes:

> Is there a way to find out if I am using early or late binding given
> the reference ("excel" in the example below) returned by Dispatch()?
>
>>>> import win32com.client
>>>> excel = win32com.client.Dispatch('Excel.Application')
>

try:
    excel.visible
except AttributeError:
    print "late bound"
else:
    print "early bound"

Hint: Attributes are case sensitive when early bound ;-)

Thomas




From rick.ratzel at magma-da.com  Tue Apr 27 00:41:27 2004
From: rick.ratzel at magma-da.com (Rick L. Ratzel)
Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2004 04:41:27 GMT
Subject: Embedding Python in C++
References: <71djc.147368$Kc3.4878757@twister2.libero.it>
Message-ID: <408DE4F3.7080804@magma-da.com>

Ciao,

    I have some examples from my PyCon presentation here:

http://elmer.sourceforge.net/PyCon04/elmer_pycon04.html

    ...and here is the complete example code:

http://elmer.sourceforge.net/PyCon04/Elmer_PyCon04.tgz

    I think the example code from example 1 may be most relevant.  You 
can also use Elmer (http://elmer.sourceforge.net) to generate a C 
interface to your Python code (as shown in examples 2 & 3).

Buona fortuna!
Rick.

Tonio wrote:
> Hi
> i'm a italian student.
> I must create a virtual machine which call python script from Visual C++
> program.
> My teacher tell me use swig fror make this work.
> I use Swig for import in Python class, object, variables of C++, but my
> problem are when in C++ i must call script Python.
> I find many article, but i don't find a working example.
> Can you advise me how i call python script from C++?
> Have you example which can you send me (in my email)?
> (my script use only int, float, string and object, class).
> Thanks.
> 
> 



From jacek.generowicz at cern.ch  Mon Apr 26 11:00:13 2004
From: jacek.generowicz at cern.ch (Jacek Generowicz)
Date: 26 Apr 2004 17:00:13 +0200
Subject: Magic methods in extension types
References: <tyfisfnt2zd.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
	<m3isfnm1bg.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk>
	<tyfekqbt02c.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
	<m3ekqanceo.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <tyfad0yu6ma.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>

Michael Hudson <mwh at python.net> writes:

> Jacek Generowicz <jacek.generowicz at cern.ch> writes:
> 
> > Michael Hudson <mwh at python.net> writes:
> > 
> > > Not finding the tp_as_number->nb_inplace_add field?
> > 
> > ( ... or tp_as_sequence ... )
> > 
> > I was afraid you (someone) was going to say that.
> 
> Why?

Because I'm too lazy to pollute my tiny extension type with a whole
thingy_as_number sturucture for the sake of just one maginc method :-)

> Well, the type of old-style classes has something in it's
> tp_as_number->nb_inplace_add slot that looks in the class dictionary
> for an __iadd__ method.
> 
> If you'd made that a new-style class, you would be surprised!

Don't follow ... you mean if I had done this:

    >>> class foo(object):
    ...     def __iadd__(self,other):
    ...         print "__iadd__ running"
    ...         return self
    ... 
    >>> f = foo()
    >>> f += 2
    __iadd__ running

?

> > Python manages to map "+=" to the method called "__iadd__" in
> > user-defined classes, but not for extension types. What is the
> > essential difference that makes that mapping work in one case but
> > not in the other?
> 
> Well, for old-style classes a whole bunch of code like:
> 
> BINARY_INPLACE(instance_ior, "or", PyNumber_InPlaceOr)
> BINARY_INPLACE(instance_ixor, "xor", PyNumber_InPlaceXor)
> BINARY_INPLACE(instance_iand, "and", PyNumber_InPlaceAnd)
> BINARY_INPLACE(instance_ilshift, "lshift", PyNumber_InPlaceLshift)
> BINARY_INPLACE(instance_irshift, "rshift", PyNumber_InPlaceRshift)
> BINARY_INPLACE(instance_iadd, "add", PyNumber_InPlaceAdd)
> BINARY_INPLACE(instance_isub, "sub", PyNumber_InPlaceSubtract)
> BINARY_INPLACE(instance_imul, "mul", PyNumber_InPlaceMultiply)
> BINARY_INPLACE(instance_idiv, "div", PyNumber_InPlaceDivide)
> BINARY_INPLACE(instance_imod, "mod", PyNumber_InPlaceRemainder)
> BINARY_INPLACE(instance_ifloordiv, "floordiv", PyNumber_InPlaceFloorDivide)
> BINARY_INPLACE(instance_itruediv, "truediv", PyNumber_InPlaceTrueDivide)
> 
> and for new-style classes much hair in typeobject.c:type_new and
> therein called functions.  Extension types don't go through type_new
> and are expected to go the other way round, in a sense: define
> something in tp_as_number->nb_inplace_add and a wrapper called
> __iadd__ will be created for you.

Yuk.

You are, in summary, saying that by _far_ the simplest way of adding
__iadd__ to an extenion type is via tp_as_number->nb_inplace_add,
aren't you.

So be it.

Thanks.


From ramen at lackingtalent.com  Sat Apr 17 22:03:07 2004
From: ramen at lackingtalent.com (Dave Benjamin)
Date: Sun, 18 Apr 2004 02:03:07 -0000
Subject: Difficulty finding Python employer
References: <407e9164$0$122$3a628fcd@reader3.nntp.hccnet.nl>
Message-ID: <slrnc83p3k.tdb.ramen@lackingtalent.com>

In article <407e9164$0$122$3a628fcd at reader3.nntp.hccnet.nl>, Anton Vredegoor wrote:
> Will send no resume. Can't stand hype. Must telecommute.

That could explain your difficulty...


From python at rcn.com  Thu Apr 15 11:21:05 2004
From: python at rcn.com (Raymond Hettinger)
Date: 15 Apr 2004 08:21:05 -0700
Subject: Automatic, portable optimization of global access
Message-ID: <5d83790c.0404150721.46a3b5d0@posting.google.com>

FWIW, I've posted a brief, but powerful recipe for a bytecode
optimization that saves known globals as constants:

    http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Cookbook/Python/Recipe/277940

It's not psyco, but it does run everywhere and is easy to use.

A key benefit is being able to localize variable access without adding
clutter to your code like: _random=random; _len=len.

One caveat is to run it in the builtin_only mode whenever some of the
module globals are going to be updated at runtime.


Raymond Hettinger


From llothar at web.de  Tue Apr 20 01:41:48 2004
From: llothar at web.de (Lothar Scholz)
Date: 19 Apr 2004 22:41:48 -0700
Subject: CamelCase versus wide_names (Prothon)
References: <UHxfc.9323$dZ1.3740@fed1read04>
Message-ID: <6ee58e07.0404192141.2229efd6@posting.google.com>

"Mark Hahn" <mark at prothon.org> wrote in message news:<UHxfc.9323$dZ1.3740 at fed1read04>...
> We have agreed in Prothon that unlike Python we are going to be 100%
> consistant in our var and method naming.  We will not have run-together
> words like iteritems, we are going to always have seperated words like
> has_key.
> 
> Now we are in the midst of a discussion of camelCase versus wide_names.  So
> far our arguments are:
> 
> 1) CamelCase is more elegant, modern, more readable, and more efficient in
> character usage.
> 
> 2) Wide_names is cleaner, more readable, compatible with C, which is the
> standard module language for Python and Prothon.  Wide_names is also the
> Python standard.
> 
> Of course in the Python world you alread have wide_names as your standard,
> but could you for the moment pretend you were picking your standard from
> scratch (as we are doing in the Prothon world) and give your vote for which
> you'd prefer?

After writing a few hundert thousands lines of code in Eiffel and a
few ten thousands lines in Java i must say that lowercase wide_names
are much much better to read. Someone else already mentioned this
problem:

   smtp_message <-> SMTPMessage <-> SmtpMessage


From mwh at python.net  Thu Apr 22 06:17:20 2004
From: mwh at python.net (Michael Hudson)
Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2004 10:17:20 GMT
Subject: if (__name__ == '__main__'): main(sys.argv[1:])
References: <01c601c4271b$7f7300a0$b401010a@sparta>
	<4085A445.1050303@heneryd.com>
	<mailman.833.1082551131.20120.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <m3hdvcpb9s.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk>

Fran?ois Pinard <pinard at iro.umontreal.ca> writes:

> A word about the `__metaclass__' line.  My intent is to forget all about
> classic classes and go with the new type system as quickly as possible.
> I do not want to derive each and every of my classes from `object',
> and later edit all those `(object)' out when the classic classes will
> effectively get deprecated.  

Why would you do that?  Even if you don't inherit from object
explicitly (eg. what you do) object is still a base class.

I don't like using a __metaclass__ global because it's a non-local
effect.

Cheers,
mwh

-- 
  I never disputed the Perl hacking skill of the Slashdot creators. 
  My objections are to the editors' taste, the site's ugly visual 
  design, and the Slashdot community's raging stupidity.
     -- http://www.cs.washington.edu/homes/klee/misc/slashdot.html#faq


From try_vanevery_at_mycompanyname at yahoo.com  Mon Apr 26 00:35:43 2004
From: try_vanevery_at_mycompanyname at yahoo.com (Brandon J. Van Every)
Date: Sun, 25 Apr 2004 21:35:43 -0700
Subject: Maya API with Python?
Message-ID: <c6i321$cbgu4$1@ID-207230.news.uni-berlin.de>

Anybody tried that?  Progress or horror stories to tell?

-- 
Cheers,                     www.indiegamedesign.com
Brandon Van Every           Seattle, WA

"Troll" - (n.) Anything you don't like.
Usage: "He's just a troll."



From newsgroups at jhrothjr.com  Wed Apr 14 20:06:27 2004
From: newsgroups at jhrothjr.com (John Roth)
Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2004 20:06:27 -0400
Subject: Difficulty Finding Python Developers
References: <65cbc3dd.0404140641.3501fde8@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <107rkii2un8o1b0@news.supernews.com>


"Paul Morrow" <pm_mon at yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:65cbc3dd.0404140641.3501fde8 at posting.google.com...
> We've worked hard to convince our company to migrate our core
> applications to Python, and now we're looking for a Python developer
> in Atlanta to handle a short-term (approx. 3 month) project.  But our
> initial searches have been fairly unsuccessful.  We haven't actually
> posted a job on Monster, but we have been talking with various
> headhunters in our area and they don't have many resumes that show
> Python experience.  An so now, of course, mgt is wondering whether
> selecting Python was a mistake.
>
> As anyone had a similar experience?  Suggestions?

Besides Monster, different areas have other job boards
that are pretty good. This one seems to be better in
this area: at least it has the number of jobs I'd expect,
and more than in some other areas:

http://www.atlanta.computerjobs.com/

John Roth
>
> Thanks.




From jcarlson at uci.edu  Thu Apr  1 14:39:53 2004
From: jcarlson at uci.edu (Josiah Carlson)
Date: Thu, 01 Apr 2004 11:39:53 -0800
Subject: From python-dev, space vs. tab controversy finally settled
In-Reply-To: <Q4SdnWD5KfGEtfHdRVn-gw@powergate.ca>
References: <BrPac.5729$xw6.2105@fe1.columbus.rr.com>
	<c4ggrj$ri6$1@news.service.uci.edu>
	<Q4SdnWD5KfGEtfHdRVn-gw@powergate.ca>
Message-ID: <c4hrce$7td$2@news.service.uci.edu>

> Yeah, thanks Josiah.  Well all know how bright you are already though,
> and it's customary (though an unspoken custom, perhaps, until now) to
> chuckle quietly at such things and wait a while before posting, just to
> give an opportunity for the unwary ones to get sucked in for a while.

Yeah, I suppose I should try not to ruin the joke quite so soon next time.


> Anyway, you forgot to point out that the *real* conclusion from the
> python-dev discussions was that Guido has finally decided that the
> space vs. tab wars will _never_ be won, and chooses explicit over
> implicit yet again.  The indentation style for Python 3.0 (not 2.4)
> will be leading periods, since they make the indentation more obvious
> and thus avoid mistakes.

Now that is funny.


If you want to see another good Python joke, I like this one:
Python for Commodore 64.
http://zephyrfalcon.org/weblog/arch_d7_2004_03_27.html#e536

Not terribly believable, but still good.

  - Josiah


From remi at cherrypy.org  Tue Apr 27 13:23:43 2004
From: remi at cherrypy.org (Remi Delon)
Date: 27 Apr 2004 10:23:43 -0700
Subject: [ANN] CherryPy-0.10 released
Message-ID: <585c0de9.0404270923.165cbc67@posting.google.com>

Hello everyone,

I am pleased to announce the release of CherryPy-10.

It's been a while since I last announced a CherryPy release on this
newsgroup but a lot has happened since then:

- The cherrypy.org site now has a nice forum and a wiki
- Sessions are now fully thread-safe and they work great in production
environments with the thread-pool HTTP-server
- Jython compatibility has been restored
- Lots of new HowTos have been added to the documentation, including
one HowTo about best practices for deploying a demanding production
website.
- Plus many bugfixes and improvements ...


------------------------------------------
About CherryPy:

CherryPy is a Python based web development toolkit. It provides all
the features of an enterprise-class application server while remaining
light, fast and easy to learn.
CherryPy allows developers to build web applications in much the same
way they would build any other object-oriented Python program. This
usually results in smaller source code developed in less time.

Remi.

http://www.cherrypy.org


From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Mon Apr  5 00:43:50 2004
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 5 Apr 2004 00:43:50 -0400
Subject: Difference between default arguments and keyword arguments
References: <UmTbc.9904$NL4.4809@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net>
	<10713rf4bjl1bab@news.supernews.com>
	<roy-98D913.19232404042004@reader1.panix.com>
	<yD1cc.12064$yN6.3263@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <c4qo66$qlf$1@panix1.panix.com>

In article <yD1cc.12064$yN6.3263 at newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net>,
Edward Diener <eldiener at earthlink.net> wrote:
>
>Along the same lines, I would like to add to that the explanation for
>classes in the tutorial is very poor since it assumes a much higher
>understanding of Python than a tutorial should about the language. A
>much simpler and more direct explanation regarding classes in Python
>would be much better. While I mostly got it because I have programmed
>extensively in other OOP languages, I would expect your average Python
>beginner to be completely lost by much of the high-level explanation in
>that chapter.  Whoever wrote it was much more interested in explaining
>the theory of classes in Python, to beginners no less !, than they were
>toward explaining what classes are in Python and how to use them. And
>why iterators and generators are included in that chapter are beyond
>me. Also the tutorial mentions some usages of classes, in previous
>sections, before the explanation of classes occur, which I feel is
>definitely a mistake.

While I agree that the tutorial could stand improvement, it *is*
targetted more at experienced programmers.
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

"usenet imitates usenet"  --Darkhawk


From nick at no.spam.org  Tue Apr 20 06:37:23 2004
From: nick at no.spam.org (Nick Efford)
Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 11:37:23 +0100
Subject: block ciphers
References: <7L_gc.53134$Gn6.49963@newssvr25.news.prodigy.com>
	<7x3c6zqvdy.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<W50hc.24380$NH7.24058@newssvr27.news.prodigy.com>
Message-ID: <pan.2004.04.20.10.37.22.865654@no.spam.org>

On Tue, 20 Apr 2004 02:41:58 +0000, Trevor Perrin wrote:

> Me neither, exactly... ;-)  I'm just trying to gauge the interest or
> resistance to this, and see if there's any way I could help.

I would definitely like to see better crypto in the standard library.


N.


From imbosol at aerojockey.invalid  Fri Apr 16 00:04:13 2004
From: imbosol at aerojockey.invalid (Carl Banks)
Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2004 04:04:13 GMT
Subject: CamelCase versus wide_names (Prothon)
References: <UHxfc.9323$dZ1.3740@fed1read04>
Message-ID: <1XIfc.246$GN6.122@fe2.columbus.rr.com>

Mark Hahn wrote:
> 
> 
> We have agreed in Prothon that unlike Python we are going to be 100%
> consistant in our var and method naming.  We will not have run-together
> words like iteritems, we are going to always have seperated words like
> has_key.
> 
> Now we are in the midst of a discussion of camelCase versus wide_names.  So
> far our arguments are:
> 
> 1) CamelCase is more elegant, modern, more readable, and more efficient in
> character usage.
> 
> 2) Wide_names is cleaner, more readable, compatible with C, which is the
> standard module language for Python and Prothon.  Wide_names is also the
> Python standard.
> 
> Of course in the Python world you alread have wide_names as your standard,
> but could you for the moment pretend you were picking your standard from
> scratch (as we are doing in the Prothon world) and give your vote for which
> you'd prefer?


Ok, get ready for this one.  When I'm naming classes, instances,
functions, methods, and other complex (not complex number) objects, I
tend to use wide names.  When I'm naming numbers, strings, or
collections thereof, I choose camel case before wide naming.

Why?

Well, I use wide for most objects because I think it's a bit more
readable in general, being closer to what we're used to reading.  (I
guess that might not be the case for Arabic people.)  But, when you
are doing all kinds of math calculations with numbers, or operating on
strings, or whatnot, the underscores make it harder to read, because
it takes effort to sort out whether something's an operator or an
underscore.

In other words, I typically use wide names because they're very
readable and nice looking in ordinary code like this:

    func_status = blast_furnace.ignite_furnace()

but avoid the wide names when they're uber-ugly and unreadable in
operator-laden code like this:

    pitch_rate_coefficient = pitch_rate*mean_aerodynamic_chord/total_airspeed


It would not surprise me if the people who prefer wide names tend to
be applications-type programmers, whereas those who prefer camel case
naming tend to be numerical-type programmers.


-- 
CARL BANKS                      http://www.aerojockey.com/software
"If you believe in yourself, drink your school, stay on drugs, and
don't do milk, you can get work." 
          -- Parody of Mr. T from a Robert Smigel Cartoon


From danb_83 at yahoo.com  Sat Apr 17 23:27:19 2004
From: danb_83 at yahoo.com (Dan Bishop)
Date: 17 Apr 2004 20:27:19 -0700
Subject: CamelCase versus wide_names (Prothon)
References: <UHxfc.9323$dZ1.3740@fed1read04>
	<pan.2004.04.16.01.04.02.124611@hotmail.com>
	<slrnc83ddn.ijn.ramen@lackingtalent.com>
Message-ID: <ad052e5c.0404171927.457f8cf7@posting.google.com>

Dave Benjamin <ramen at lackingtalent.com> wrote in message news:<slrnc83ddn.ijn.ramen at lackingtalent.com>...
> In article <pan.2004.04.16.01.04.02.124611 at hotmail.com>, Paramjit Oberoi wrote:
> > * the real problem is the absence of a character for
> >   indicating non-breaking spaces---that's why we have
> >   to use all these damn_WorkArounds.
> 
> That's so funny; I was just thinking the same thing myself. After all these
> years, they couldn't just make it easier to press? That's the only problem
> here, IMHO; I *much* prefer reading lowercase_with_underscores. I never
> noticed how much until I read this thread, because I have a slight hangover
> and all these capWordsAreLiterallyGivingMeAHeadache. ;)

ButKeepInMindThatManyIdentifierNamesHaveOnlyOneWord
(InWhichCaseTheWordSeparationStyleDoesntMatter),
AndMostOrOnlyTwoOrThreeWords, SoCodeWontBeAsHardToReadAsThis.
 
> Out of curiosity, do most of us prefer CamelCaps for class names, regardless
> of our opinions on variables, functions, methods, etc.?

I do.

> I almost never see
> class names defined in lowercase unless they're built-in or user-defined
> types meant to look like they're built-in.

I'd prefer it if built-in types were uppercase too, so I wouldn't have
to remember not to use "list" and "file" as variable names. 
Unforunately, that would break a lot of code.


From michaelmossey at yahoo.com  Thu Apr  8 18:15:05 2004
From: michaelmossey at yahoo.com (Michael Mossey)
Date: 8 Apr 2004 15:15:05 -0700
Subject: Intermittant slow startup
References: <9badaf0.0404051033.9fec2db@posting.google.com>	<4071A86D.97CA6CAE@alcyone.com>	<9badaf0.0404051445.5b26b945@posting.google.com>	<mailman.391.1081257204.20120.python-list@python.org>	<9badaf0.0404071113.6cdcee6b@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.452.1081430037.20120.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <9badaf0.0404081415.4d59d088@posting.google.com>

Andrew MacIntyre <andymac at bullseye.apana.org.au> wrote in message news:<mailman.452.1081430037.20120.python-list at python.org>...
> On Thu, 7 Apr 2004, Michael Mossey wrote:
> 
> > I double-checked that and asked the sysadmin to check if the python
> > build was using any network source.  I do have AFS and NFS drives
> > mounted on this machine, but I'm not reading any python code from them
> > as nearly as I can tell.  PYTHONPATH points only to local disk.
> 
> All I can think of is to try using "python -v" and see where in the
> startup process the delay appears to be occurring.  If the same module is
> involved in every stumble, then at least you have a module to investigate.

python -v reveals that the hang is coming before it prints anything.  So
what is python doing then?  Or is the OS having a problem in loading the
python executable and getting it going?  This doesn't seem to happen with
other utilities installed in /usr/local/bin.

-Mike


From balaji at email.arizona.edu  Fri Apr  9 01:15:59 2004
From: balaji at email.arizona.edu (Balaji)
Date: 8 Apr 2004 22:15:59 -0700
Subject: Problem!!
Message-ID: <494182a9.0404082115.3c828371@posting.google.com>

Hello everybody..

I have a problem!!!

suppose i want to define

c1=x(i)+y(i)<=b for i in s1 ------------ suppose it is the first
constraint..
c2=x(i)+y(i)<=b for i in s2------------- suppose it is the second
constraint..

now as i is indexed over s1 so is c1.. but what it does is it overites
the first constraint..

I guess there should be some problem with the iterators...

any help in this regard is apreciated..

Thanx

Balaji


From loic at fejoz.net  Fri Apr 30 10:11:47 2004
From: loic at fejoz.net (Yermat)
Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2004 16:11:47 +0200
Subject: [Classless] Just to be sure...
Message-ID: <c6tmvr$dpp$1@arcturus.ciril.fr>

Hi all,
I just want to be sure that I have really understand what classless 
means... Can you look at the following "test" function and tell me if 
this is what you would have called classless programmation ?

thanks !
-- 
Yermat


import types

PropertyType = type(property())

class Prototype(object):
     parent = None
     def __init__(self, parent=None):
         self.parent = parent

     def clone(self):
         return Prototype(self)

     def __hasattr__(self, name):
         if name in self.__dict__:
             return True
         elif self.parent!= None:
             return self.parent.__hasattr__(self, name)
         else:
             return False

     def __getattribute__(self, name):
         if name in ['__dict__', 'parent']:
             return object.__getattribute__(self, name)
         if name in self.__dict__:
             val = self.__dict__[name]
         elif self.parent != None:
             val = getattr(self.parent, name)
         else:
             val = object.__getattribute__(self, name)
         if type(val) in [types.FunctionType, types.GeneratorType, 
types.UnboundMethodType, types.BuiltinFunctionType]:
             return val.__get__(self, self.__class__)
         if type(val) == PropertyType:
             return val.fget(self)
         return val

     def __setattr__(self, name, value):
         if type(value) == types.MethodType:
             value = value.im_func
         self.__dict__[name] = value

     def __add__(self, other):
         return self.__add__(other)

def test():
     import random

     def show(self):
         print '(%s, %s)' % (self.x, self.y)

     def addPoint(self, other):
         r = self.clone()
         r.x = self.x + other.x
         r.y = self.y + other.y
         return r

     point = Prototype()
     point.show = show
     point.__add__ = addPoint

     a1 = point.clone()
     a1.x = 3
     a1.y = 5

     a2 = point.clone()
     a2.x = 7
     a2.y = 9

     print 'a1: ',
     a1.show()
     print 'a2: ',
     a2.show()


     def getX(self):
         return random.randint(0, 10)

     print 'a3:'
     a3 = a2.clone()
     a3.x = property(getX)

     print a3.x
     a3.show()
     a3.show()
     a3.show()

     a2.y = 10
     print 'a3: ',
     a3.show()

     p = a3.__add__(a2)
     print 'p = a3 + a2: ',
     p.show()

     print 'a3 + a2: ',
     (a3 + a2).show()

     def squareDistance(self):
         return (self.x ** 2) + (self.y ** 2)

     point.squareDistance = squareDistance

     a4 = a1.clone()
     print 'a4: ',
     a4.show()
     print a4.squareDistance()

     def pointTuple(self):
         return (self.x, self.y)

     a5 = a3.clone()
     a5.tuple = pointTuple
     print 'a5: ', a5.tuple()
     a5.x = 10
     print 'a5: ', a5.tuple()
     print 'a3: ',
     a3.show()

if __name__=='__main__':
     test()



From colarte at telesat.com.co  Thu Apr  1 10:33:04 2004
From: colarte at telesat.com.co (Camilo Olarte)
Date: Thu,  1 Apr 2004 10:33:04 -0500
Subject: ANNOUNCE: 'goto' for Python
Message-ID: <1080833584.406c3630a523d@ilpostino3.telesat.com.co>

>> Entrian Solutions is pleased to announce version 1.0 of the 'goto'
>> module.
>>
>> This adds the 'goto' and 'comefrom' keywords to Python 2.3, adding
>> flexibility to Python's control flow mechanisms and allowing Python
>> programmers to use many common control flow idioms that were previously
>> denied to them.

>>>>>>   What is the day today ? Oh yes the first of April !    <<<<<<

OOUCH ! I Almost believe it!

:)

Camilo Olarte
Telesat, m?s f?cil...m?s Internet.
http://www.telesat.com.co/



From pythongnome at hotmail.com  Tue Apr 20 17:15:13 2004
From: pythongnome at hotmail.com (Lucas Raab)
Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 21:15:13 GMT
Subject: Thanks, and a URL correction
References: <J13hc.186320$oR5.5397@pd7tw3no>
	<ks8hc.2746$gH6.1177@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net>
	<PKahc.189360$oR5.3955@pd7tw3no>
Message-ID: <Bpghc.4456$gH6.3634@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net>


"Noah from IT Goes Click" <newsuser at itgoesclick.com> wrote in message
news:PKahc.189360$oR5.3955 at pd7tw3no...
> Thanks Lucas
>
> the correct URL is (you got a . instead of a / after com)
> http://www.pythonware.com/library/tkinter/introduction/
>
> and the PDF link so those who care don't have to dig
> http://www.pythonware.com/library/tkinter/an-introduction-to-tkinter.pdf

Thanks for catching that, otherwise I wouldn't have noticed.




From mab at iee  Tue Apr  6 05:29:05 2004
From: mab at iee (Marco Bartel)
Date: Tue, 06 Apr 2004 11:29:05 +0200
Subject: Python and USB
In-Reply-To: <5ns8k1-3q4.ln1@home.rogerbinns.com>
References: <407162b0$1@news.vo.lu> <5ns8k1-3q4.ln1@home.rogerbinns.com>
Message-ID: <40727912$1@news.vo.lu>

Roger Binns wrote:
>>I just
>>was thinking about to do the wrapper myself using SWIG, but i also still
>>hope, that there is someone outside, who played allready with usb and
>>python arround.
> 
> 
> Here is one I made earlier:
> 
> http://cvs.sf.net/viewcvs.py/bitpim/bitpim/native/usb/
> 
> It is shipping as part of BitPim and works with libusb on Linux and Mac
> and libusb-win32 on Windows.
> 
> If someone wants to make this into a proper distutils style package
> etc, I'd be more than happy to contribute the code etc.
> 
> Roger
> 
> 
Thanks a lot roger,
it was exactly the thing i'am was looking for.
Now i only have to get my device running. Under
C i was allready using the libusb, and so this code should
be easily to be adapted.

THX
Marco



From edreamleo at charter.net  Mon Apr 12 20:59:25 2004
From: edreamleo at charter.net (Edward K. Ream)
Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2004 19:59:25 -0500
Subject: accept xml instead of plain Python text?
References: <107jc0h6r5c3g3d@corp.supernews.com>
	<107jenfmso3tce7@news.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <107merg7rqhrm71@corp.supernews.com>

> You should be able to convert an XML format of your
> design to an AST and compile it to bytecodes; likewise
> you should be able to generate an XML file from the AST.

Thanks, John.  This is a valuable suggestion because it points in a
direction that doesn't require the assent (or participation) of the wider
Python community.  As I just said in my reply to Martin, I am pretty dubious
about the whole idea.  I suspect though, that if the idea ever goes anywhere
something like what you suggest will be the way to go.  I'll keep this
suggestion in the back of my mind...

Thanks again.

Edward

--------------------------------------------------------------------
Edward K. Ream   email:  edreamleo at charter.net
Leo: Literate Editor with Outlines
Leo: http://webpages.charter.net/edreamleo/front.html
--------------------------------------------------------------------




From mcfletch at rogers.com  Wed Apr 21 16:23:44 2004
From: mcfletch at rogers.com (Mike C. Fletcher)
Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2004 16:23:44 -0400
Subject: Python editors for Windows question
In-Reply-To: <D6Ahc.2737911$iA2.315963@news.easynews.com>
References: <D6Ahc.2737911$iA2.315963@news.easynews.com>
Message-ID: <4086D850.5040004@rogers.com>

PythonWin (part of the pywin32/win32all package) has limited 
autocomplete.  Basically it will auto-complete for modules which are 
loaded, so if you import cgi in the interactive session then you will 
have autocompletion for cgi. If the module is not loaded, then PythonWin 
uses a simpler algorithm that searches through the current file looking 
for x.y notations where x matches your currently-begun x.

PythonWin also has very nice ctrl+space identifier completion which 
searches back/forward from where you're typing, so you can type longer 
identifiers with just a few keystrokes.

Would be nice to have that same set of mechanisms in all Python 
editors.  I believe Boa has auto-completion in much the same way.  Not 
sure about the other win32 editors.  I think the Activestate IDEs may 
have auto-completion, but again, not sure.

Good luck and welcome,
Mike

Dustin wrote:

>Hello,
>
>I just started programming in Python last night, and I've really enjoyed my
>experience so far. I would like to know if there is a Windows editor that
>recognizes Python and will support a module syntax/definition lists For
>instance, let's say that I set form = cgi and then when I hit the period
>(".") on the keyboard, a list of objects shows up, such as FieldStorage(),
>etc.. Any suggestions are appreciated. Thank you!
>
>Dustin
>  
>
_______________________________________
  Mike C. Fletcher
  Designer, VR Plumber, Coder
  http://members.rogers.com/mcfletch/





From heikowu at ceosg.de  Thu Apr 22 03:59:15 2004
From: heikowu at ceosg.de (Heiko Wundram)
Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2004 09:59:15 +0200
Subject: Python use large scale projects
In-Reply-To: <47fc6058.0404212327.24163290@posting.google.com>
References: <47fc6058.0404212327.24163290@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <200404220959.15702.heikowu@ceosg.de>

Am Donnerstag 22 April 2004 09:27 schrieb limor:
> I think the python being typless makes the
> code hard to maintain.

Python isn't typeless. Little example:

>>> a = "3"
>>> b = "5"
>>> a*b
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
TypeError: can't multiply sequence to non-int

It's not typeless (as e.g. you'd consider Perl to be), but variables aren't 
declared by type (they are all just references to objects, in the above 
example references to two string objects, and not declared at all...).

Heiko.



From jcarlson at uci.edu  Mon Apr 12 15:12:33 2004
From: jcarlson at uci.edu (Josiah Carlson)
Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2004 12:12:33 -0700
Subject: Parsing string array for differences
In-Reply-To: <7598e160.0404120856.217bc8d5@posting.google.com>
References: <7598e160.0404120856.217bc8d5@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <c5eptg$67h$2@news.service.uci.edu>

> My below code doesn't do what I need it to do.  What I want is to
> capture the differences between two arrays of data into a new list. 
> So if list A has {Fred, Bob, Jim} and List B has {Jim, George, Fred} I
> want to capture in list C just {Fred, Jim}

According to your example just given, you don't want the difference, you 
want the similarity.

a = {}
a.fromkeys(listA)
listC_similarity = [i for i in listB if i in a]

Using a dictionary for the lookup makes it faster than searching another 
list.

  - Josiah


From stevenbee at removethis.att.net  Tue Apr 27 19:39:32 2004
From: stevenbee at removethis.att.net (Steven Brent)
Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2004 19:39:32 -0400
Subject: Backticks: What up?
Message-ID: <PZCcnT7qvI2rchPdRWPC-w@speakeasy.net>

I was wondering why the backticks in the following fragment:

        return 'Here's the result: ' + `self.data`

My guess is that in a return statement (as opposed to a print statement)
it's necessary to do this in order to get the self.data instance attribute
as a string, so it can be concatenated with the 'Here's the result: '
string.

What exactly do the backticks do, then? Just return the result of an
expression as a string? Does my guess make sense and / or is it correct?
Elucidations and gentle ridicule welcome.

TIA.


From dwb2 at speakeasy.net  Mon Apr  5 13:13:54 2004
From: dwb2 at speakeasy.net (Derek Chen-Becker)
Date: Mon, 05 Apr 2004 11:13:54 -0600
Subject: Profiling iterators?
Message-ID: <19idnQuS8dNODuzdRVn-hw@speakeasy.net>

Hi,
     I'm using Python 2.2 and a library that makes heavy use of 
iterators. I'm in the process of cleaning up/optimizing some of the code 
and I tried profiling it, but the profiler seems to completely ignore 
iterator calls, and even routines called by the iterator calls. Have I 
done something wrong, or is this a limitation of the profiler?

Thanks,

Derek


From P at draigBrady.com  Mon Apr 26 13:18:56 2004
From: P at draigBrady.com (P at draigBrady.com)
Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2004 18:18:56 +0100
Subject: how to add new print %b format to python?
In-Reply-To: <slrnc8q9qp.htc.rs@frank.overlook.homelinux.net>
References: <slrnc8q9qp.htc.rs@frank.overlook.homelinux.net>
Message-ID: <408D4480.8090104@draigBrady.com>

Rusty Shackleford wrote:
> I have a Summer in front of me without any school, and I'd like to add a
> new format for python print strings that will show any number in a
> binary representation.  For example:
> 
> 
>>>>'%b' % 3
> 
> 11
> 
>>>>'%b' % 5
> 
> 101
> 
> You get the idea.  I've written functions that return strings, so that
> part is done, but where do I go to tinker with the python interpreter to
> add this new format?
> 
> Please don't argue with me about whether this is an advisable goal in
> itself -- I'm using it as a method to learn about the internals of the
> python language.

I don't think this will be accepted as the
format args are really a lowest common denominator
across all systems. For e.g. on linux you can use
the ' modifier to print numbers in locale format
(and example for mine is 1,234).

Also %b is already used by userspace utils in linux, from the docs:

In addition to the standard printf(1)
formats, %b causes printf to expand backslash escape
sequences in the corresponding argument, and %q causes
printf to output the corresponding argument in a format
that can be reused as shell input.

Anyway it's easy to get a binary representation
and I can't remember the last time I needed one?
Something like this should work:

binary = lambda n: n>0 and binary(n>>1)+[str(n&1)] or []
''.join(map(binary(4096))

P?draig.


From mgibson at tripwire.com  Wed Apr 21 13:19:25 2004
From: mgibson at tripwire.com (uebertester)
Date: 21 Apr 2004 10:19:25 -0700
Subject: md5.hexdigest() converting unicode string to ascii
References: <77b925de.0404161337.3917ef56@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.727.1082181832.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<77b925de.0404201516.7941cd83@posting.google.com>
	<m2zn957gmx.fsf@unique.phony.fqdn>
Message-ID: <77b925de.0404210919.76fc0aa3@posting.google.com>

Heather Coppersmith <me at privacy.net> wrote in message news:<m2zn957gmx.fsf at unique.phony.fqdn>...
> On 20 Apr 2004 16:16:33 -0700,
> mgibson at tripwire.com (uebertester) wrote:
> 
> > I've attempted the suggested solution specifying different
> > encodings, however, the hash value that is returned does not
> > match what I expect based upon another utility I'm checking
> > against.  Hash value returned by python specifying utf16
> > encoding: 731f46dd88cb3a67a4ee1392aa84c6f4 .  Hash value
> > returned by other utility:  0b0ebc769e2b89cf61a10a72d5a11dda .
> > Note:  I've tried other encoding also.  As the utility I'm
> > verifying against is extensively used, I'm assuming it is
> > returning the correct value.  I appreciate any help in resolving
> > this as I'm trying to enhance an automated test suite written in
> > python.
> 
> Other things that may bite or may have bitten you:
> 
>     o the byte order marker or lack thereof
>     o different newline conventions
>     o trailing newlines or lack thereof
>     o don't forget that there are two utf16 encodings, big endian
>         and little endian
> 
> Adding to what Peter indicated, the source (code and/or persons)
> of your extensively used utility may also contain specific test
> vectors.
> 
> Regards,
> Heather

Your first bullet is the problem.  _winreg.QueryValueEx(y,"") returns
a unicode string with the BOM "fffe".  The utility I'm comparing
against removes this prior to hashing the registry value.  Thanks for
all the input I received from everyone.

Mark


From FBatista at uniFON.com.ar  Tue Apr 27 16:44:09 2004
From: FBatista at uniFON.com.ar (Batista, Facundo)
Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2004 17:44:09 -0300
Subject: Tkinter vs. wxPython?
Message-ID: <A128D751272CD411BC9200508BC2194D0338390D@escpl.tcp.com.ar>

[Alan Gauld]

#- And there is no doubt that wxPython looks more natural, on
#- windows at least, although the differences aren't enough to make
#- me switch. BUt my needs are, as I said, very simple.

Well, I love the way GTK looks.

But for windows, PyGTK is pretty difficult to install and make it work. So,
wxPython has the appeal that can run native over Windows and over GTK in
linux.

.	Facundo





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From claird at lairds.com  Tue Apr 27 14:15:27 2004
From: claird at lairds.com (Cameron Laird)
Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2004 18:15:27 -0000
Subject: And *this* is why you need Perl!? (was: Is Perl *that* good?)
References: <c6ich0$c5mee$1@ID-205437.news.uni-berlin.de>
	<87fzaqmm8t.fsf@strauser.com>
	<38ec68a6.0404262308.50029919@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.49.1083084698.25742.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <108t8pvam9q139c@corp.supernews.com>

In article <mailman.49.1083084698.25742.python-list at python.org>,
Skip Montanaro  <skip at pobox.com> wrote:
			.
			.
			.
>differences.  In addition, as Jamie Zawinski suggests, regular expressions
>are not always the best choice.
>
>Skip
>

"suggests"?  I thought he was "chanting", or "intoning", or
"inveighing" or "denouncing" or ...  Well, I'll say it on my
own behalf:  friends, REs are not always the best choice <URL:
http://www.unixreview.com/documents/s=2472/uni1037388368795/ >.
-- 

Cameron Laird <claird at phaseit.net>
Business:  http://www.Phaseit.net


From fumanchu at amor.org  Tue Apr 13 02:20:37 2004
From: fumanchu at amor.org (Robert Brewer)
Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2004 23:20:37 -0700
Subject: FutureWarning question
Message-ID: <DE1CF2B4FEC4A342BF62B6B2B334601E561FED@opus.amorhq.net>

Mike wrote:
> I ran across the message below in 2.3.2 today. These are the 
> lines of code:
> 
>    402: if m1_hi >> 15 & 0x0001 == 1:
>    403:    m1_hi = m1_hi | 0xFFFF0000
>    404: if m1_lo >> 15 & 0x0001 == 1:
>    405:    m1_lo = m1_lo | 0xFFFF0000
> 
> This is the warning message:
> 
>    pwg.py:403: FutureWarning: hex/oct constants > sys.maxint 
> will return 
>    positive values in Python 2.4 and up
>       m1_hi = m1_hi | 0xFFFF0000
>    pwg.py:405: FutureWarning: hex/oct constants > sys.maxint 
> will return 
>    positive values in Python 2.4 and up
>       m1_lo = m1_lo | 0xFFFF0000
> 
> m1_hi and m1_lo are 32 bit values read from a file. It's not 
> clear to me
> what the warning message means. The only constant is 
> 0xffff0000; does the
> message mean that the result of the OR operation won't be 
> what I think it
> is? Can anyone elucidate?

Try typing at an interactive prompt:

>>> 0xffff0000
<interactive input>:1: FutureWarning: hex/oct constants > sys.maxint
will return positive values in Python 2.4 and up
<interactive input>:1: FutureWarning: hex/oct constants > sys.maxint
will return positive values in Python 2.4 and up
<interactive input>:1: FutureWarning: hex/oct constants > sys.maxint
will return positive values in Python 2.4 and up
-65536

...as you can see, Python 2.3.2 interprets 0xffff0000 as a negative int.
The warning is saying that in Python 2.4 and following, such a hex value
will be positive (e.g. 4294901760L), rather than negative (-65536).


Robert Brewer
MIS
Amor Ministries
fumanchu at amor.org



From jepler at unpythonic.net  Thu Apr 22 13:51:23 2004
From: jepler at unpythonic.net (Jeff Epler)
Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2004 12:51:23 -0500
Subject: Main-process doesn't wait for child-processes
In-Reply-To: <c68v6c$hcg$02$1@news.t-online.com>
References: <c68v6c$hcg$02$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <20040422175123.GC17776@unpythonic.net>

Keep track of the processes you create, then wait for them each to exit.
Untested code:

    def do(task):
        pass

    processes = []
    try:
        for task in tasks:
            pid = os.fork()
            if pid == 0:
                do(task)
                os._exit(0)
            else:
                processes.append(pid)
    finally:
        while processes:
            pid = waitpid(0,0) # Wait for any child, block
            # print "reaped", pid
            processes.remove(pid)

Instead of looping until 'processes' is empty, you could wait until
waitpid raises os.error with errno==ECHILD ("No child processes").

Jeff



From cookedm+news at physics.mcmaster.ca  Fri Apr 23 17:10:59 2004
From: cookedm+news at physics.mcmaster.ca (David M. Cooke)
Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2004 17:10:59 -0400
Subject: Easiest way to *add a column* to a 2d matrix/array in
 numarray???
References: <bf23f78f.0404200803.4b065887@posting.google.com>
	<c66jij$nps$1@nntp6.u.washington.edu>
	<bf23f78f.0404221434.5c1397be@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <87oepifli4.fsf@arbutus.physics.mcmaster.ca>

At some point, seberino at spawar.navy.mil (Christian Seberino) wrote:

> Thanks for the reply.  I appreciate all the help I can get.  Your suggestion
> of using resize is excellent for adding *rows* but does not seem
> right for *columns*.

If rows works, you could do transpose/resize/transpose.

-- 
|>|\/|<
/--------------------------------------------------------------------------\
|David M. Cooke
|cookedm(at)physics(dot)mcmaster(dot)ca


From joe at notcharles.ca  Wed Apr 21 20:15:26 2004
From: joe at notcharles.ca (Joe Mason)
Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2004 00:15:26 GMT
Subject: Generator inside a class prevent __del__ ??
References: <4085BA96.651D2E4A@free.fr>
	<mailman.819.1082507351.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<40866ECD.A45758B9@free.fr>
Message-ID: <slrnc8e3jc.vpf.joe@gate.notcharles.ca>

In article <40866ECD.A45758B9 at free.fr>, Emmanuel wrote:
> Thank you very much for your answer, but I'm still not sure I understand it.
> If I understand your words right, creating self.Coroutine as an iterator on
> the generator function will create a reference on self, so if I want to use a
> generator in a class ( and I really want to ), I must delete explicitly the
> iterator before I destroy the object.
> 
> Trouble is, I _would_ like not to care about the lifetime of the object, and I
> don't know where it will be destroyed.

Try looking up "weakref".  (I've never used them myself, so I don't know
the exact syntax.)

Joe


From peter at engcorp.com  Thu Apr  1 09:32:56 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Thu, 01 Apr 2004 09:32:56 -0500
Subject: From python-dev, space vs. tab controversy finally settled
In-Reply-To: <c4ggrj$ri6$1@news.service.uci.edu>
References: <BrPac.5729$xw6.2105@fe1.columbus.rr.com>
	<c4ggrj$ri6$1@news.service.uci.edu>
Message-ID: <Q4SdnWD5KfGEtfHdRVn-gw@powergate.ca>

Josiah Carlson wrote:

> Carl Banks wrote:
> [snip]
> Great april fools joke, but no such conversation has gone on in 
> Python-Dev in the last 3 months.
> 
> Better luck next time.
> 
>  - Josiah

Yeah, thanks Josiah.  Well all know how bright you are already though,
and it's customary (though an unspoken custom, perhaps, until now) to
chuckle quietly at such things and wait a while before posting, just to
give an opportunity for the unwary ones to get sucked in for a while.

Anyway, you forgot to point out that the *real* conclusion from the
python-dev discussions was that Guido has finally decided that the
space vs. tab wars will _never_ be won, and chooses explicit over
implicit yet again.  The indentation style for Python 3.0 (not 2.4)
will be leading periods, since they make the indentation more obvious
and thus avoid mistakes.

-Peter


From peholmst at abo.fi  Wed Apr 21 05:34:35 2004
From: peholmst at abo.fi (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Petter_Holmstr=F6m?=)
Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2004 12:34:35 +0300
Subject: File access and threads
In-Reply-To: <c64i32$e02$1@panix3.panix.com>
References: <4084b3eb@newsflash.abo.fi> <c64i32$e02$1@panix3.panix.com>
Message-ID: <40864030$1@newsflash.abo.fi>

Aahz wrote:
> 
> Could you at least post a full traceback?

Is this enough?


=== TRACEBACK BEGINS ===
Mod_python error: "PythonHandler mod_python.psp"

Traceback (most recent call last):

   File "/usr/local/lib/python2.3/site-packages/mod_python/apache.py", 
line 287, in HandlerDispatch
     log=debug)

   File "/usr/local/lib/python2.3/site-packages/mod_python/apache.py", 
line 457, in import_module
     module = imp.load_module(mname, f, p, d)

   File "/usr/local/lib/python2.3/site-packages/mod_python/psp.py", line 
34, in ?
     tempdir = tempfile.gettempdir()

   File "/usr/local/lib/python2.3/tempfile.py", line 242, in gettempdir
     tempdir = _get_default_tempdir()

   File "/usr/local/lib/python2.3/tempfile.py", line 188, in 
_get_default_tempdir
     raise IOError, (_errno.ENOENT,

IOError: [Errno 2] No usable temporary directory found in ['/tmp', 
'/var/tmp', '/usr/tmp', '/']

=== TRACEBACK ENDS ===

-Petter-


From peter at engcorp.com  Fri Apr  2 16:40:21 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Fri, 02 Apr 2004 16:40:21 -0500
Subject: GUI Frameworks in Python?
In-Reply-To: <45228044.0404021040.3860a027@posting.google.com>
References: <mailman.102.1080629227.20120.python-list@python.org>	<b5idnd8_MLmQg_Td4p2dnA@powergate.ca>	<cm9ac.8115$lt2.6537@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>	<FJGdnUG9P87T4fTdRVn-uQ@powergate.ca>	<mailman.117.1080656311.20120.python-list@python.org>	<qYCdna1kjd3fBPTdRVn-tw@powergate.ca>
	<mailman.125.1080662935.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<XbGdnfXcwoMmNvTdRVn-tA@powergate.ca>
	<45228044.0404021040.3860a027@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <406DDDC5.1060102@engcorp.com>

Chris Perkins wrote:

> Peter Hansen <peter at engcorp.com> wrote in message news:<XbGdnfXcwoMmNvTdRVn-tA at powergate.ca>...
> 
> 
>>Running that repeatedly (sorry, can't reboot conveniently
>>right now, so can't get the first time) it takes 0.125 s
>>on my machine.
> 
> Nobody seems to have mentioned wxPython version numbers in this
> discussion.
> 
> I just upgraded from 2.4.2.4 to 2.5.1.5, and the start-up time for the
> demo app went from about 5 seconds to less than a second.

I've been running 2.4.1.2 on Python 2.3.3...  If I had the same
absolute speedup going to 2.5.1.5 it would be running before
I managed to click on its icon! ;-)

-Peter


From eeide at cs.utah.edu  Mon Apr 26 11:32:45 2004
From: eeide at cs.utah.edu (Eric Eide)
Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2004 09:32:45 -0600 (MDT)
Subject: AOP use cases
References: <84fc4588.0404140106.3fa0c55@posting.google.com>
	<slrnc7q1ss.1aa.alf@largo.fayauffre.org>
	<cb035744.0404141130.170f51c4@posting.google.com>
	<slrnc7sgat.vp.alf@largo.fayauffre.org>
	<cb035744.0404160442.2f0b1661@posting.google.com>
	<0pydnSB4WYuieuLdRVn-hQ@powergate.ca>
	<tyfbrlkv3ae.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
	<XYmdnVLB9rjbARrdRVn-vg@powergate.ca>
	<cb035744.0404220802.5adc5a5a@posting.google.com>
	<ywrekqebp7m.fsf@ioka.flux.utah.edu>
	<cb035744.0404252356.167b4f75@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <ywrfzaq21r6.fsf@ioka.flux.utah.edu>

"Will" == Will Stuyvesant <hwlgw at hotmail.com> writes:

	Will> One of my original points was that Java needs "AOP" to solve
	Will> problems imposed by the static typing system.  The links you
	Will> provide are Java-centric.  A better designed programming
	Will> language, like the dynamicall typed language Python, does not
	Will> need "AOP".  It is up to the software designer to make good
	Will> designs, orthogonal where needed, with separation of concerns,
	Will> etc.

I think that we disagree about the nature of AOP.  Perhaps I should review your
previous posts to see why you think AOP is primarily about working around
"problems imposed by the static typing system."  I don't agree with this claim.

To me --- and I think the AOSD literature and community supports this view ---
AOP is about structure and problem decomposition, just like OOP is about these
things.  AOP is not primarily about working around technical problems in a base
language, Java or otherwise.

Not all AOP research is done in Java, or even in statically typed languages.
See, for instance, a recent paper about implementing an AOP system in Scheme:
http://www.cs.brown.edu/~sk/Publications/Papers/Published/tk-ptcts-adv-ho-lang/

You claim that Python doesn't need AOP because it is "a better designed
programming language."  If you believe that, what about OOP?

Do you think that Python needs OOP?  If so, why?  I don't mean to start a holy
war, but consider that Scheme does quite well without inherent OOP.  Should we
consider Python's support for OOP evidence that Python is defective in some way
with respect to Scheme, and that Scheme is therefore "a better designed
programming language" because it "needs" neither AOP nor OOP?

Thank you for explaining your point of view!

Eric.

-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Eric Eide <eeide at cs.utah.edu>  .         University of Utah School of Computing
http://www.cs.utah.edu/~eeide/ . +1 (801) 585-5512 voice, +1 (801) 581-5843 FAX


From junkmail at solumslekt.org  Fri Apr  2 11:43:52 2004
From: junkmail at solumslekt.org (Leif B. Kristensen)
Date: Fri, 02 Apr 2004 18:43:52 +0200
Subject: emergent/swarm/evolutionary systems etc
References: <c4aeq8$92a$1@hercules.btinternet.com><c4btjr$8il$1@titan.btinternet.com><c4ccs2$l9j$1@news.service.uci.edu><c4hjp4$dg6$1@sparta.btinternet.com><c4ibr0$ngm$1@news.service.uci.edu>
	<c4jehj$6eh$1@titan.btinternet.com><c4jjad$ce4$1@titan.btinternet.com>
	<mailman.268.1080907791.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<c4k3tj$6dd$1@titan.btinternet.com>
Message-ID: <4Jgbc.4588$zf6.61662@news4.e.nsc.no>

Peter MacKenzie wrote:

> Oh the joy!  It makes life worth living when things click into place
> and make sense.

I know the feeling. For me too, the best way to learn a new language is
to wallow in working examples. I still remember the thrill of hacking
my way through Tom Swan's "Mastering Turbo Pascal" in the late
eighties, where he presented every wrinkle of the language, and every
single library function with both a working example program and a lucid
discussion. I've never learnt any other computer language so
thoroughly.

regards,
-- 
Leif Biberg Kristensen
http://solumslekt.org/
Validare necesse est


From j.dot.willeke at verizon.dot.net  Wed Apr  7 22:21:06 2004
From: j.dot.willeke at verizon.dot.net (Jon Willeke)
Date: Thu, 08 Apr 2004 02:21:06 GMT
Subject: print u"\u0432": why is this so hard? UnciodeEncodeError
In-Reply-To: <cpa4qrvb529.fsf@cabernet.nelson.monkey.org>
References: <cpa4qrvb529.fsf@cabernet.nelson.monkey.org>
Message-ID: <mG2dc.1372$QQ6.906@nwrdny02.gnilink.net>

Nelson Minar wrote:
> I have a simple goal. I want the following Python program to work:
>   print u"\u0432"
> 
> This program fails on my US Debian machine:
>   UnicodeEncodeError: 'ascii' codec can't encode character u'\u0432' in position 0: ordinal not in range(128)

Try playing with sys.setdefaultencoding().  You'll need to reload( sys ) 
to call it.  If it solves your problem, you can make it permanent by 
modifying site.py.


From hjwidmaier at web.de  Thu Apr  8 06:50:56 2004
From: hjwidmaier at web.de (Hans-Joachim Widmaier)
Date: Thu, 08 Apr 2004 12:50:56 +0200
Subject: gettext and the interpreter
References: <pan.2004.04.03.20.32.16.832647@web.de>
	<c4n9v7$u4i$07$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <pan.2004.04.08.10.50.55.801896@web.de>

Am Sat, 03 Apr 2004 23:22:47 +0200 schrieb Peter Otten:

> Try redefining sys.displayhook, e. g.:

Thanks a lot! This is the stuff I keep having problems with finding in the
docs.

[Sorry for answering late, but Google gave me only empty pages, and I'm
just now able to do it properly.]

Hans-Joachim


From fredrik at pythonware.com  Fri Apr 16 07:36:48 2004
From: fredrik at pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2004 13:36:48 +0200
Subject: Difficulty Finding Python Developers
References: <65cbc3dd.0404140641.3501fde8@posting.google.com><5d83790c.0404150701.605782a7@posting.google.com><roy-A17A1C.12565615042004@reader2.panix.com><7xpta8hqe7.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com><roy-A844BA.18263715042004@reader2.panix.com><7xsmf4kbac.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com><roy-B8AA1E.21270915042004@reader2.panix.com><7x7jwg7ipn.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<GfSdnRKGHIm2_-LdRVn-gg@powergate.ca>
Message-ID: <c5ogfs$di4$1@sea.gmane.org>

Peter Hanse wrote.

> > They're not, but the discussion was serious production projects.
>
> I thought the discussion was a 3-month project.  To me, that's
> definitely not something I would classify as a "serious production
> project".  I know, I know, the length alone shouldn't be enough
> to call it serious or production or not.  It's just not the term
> I would apply to something that short.  "Experiment", maybe, or
> "quickie", or "co-op student project" or something...

hmm.  have I been posting to the wrong newsgroup?

</F>






From lbates at swamisoft.com  Tue Apr 13 10:00:18 2004
From: lbates at swamisoft.com (Larry Bates)
Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2004 09:00:18 -0500
Subject: mcmillan installer
References: <mailman.575.1081855698.20120.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <BMmdnUQEpNTsb-bdRVn-iQ@comcast.com>

You might also want to take a look at py2exe.  It seems to
be under active development and Thomas Heller (author)
monitors this list frequently.

http://starship.python.net/crew/theller/py2exe/

Larry Bates
Syscon, Inc.


"Gianluca Trombetta" <gianluca.trombetta at tin.it> wrote in message
news:mailman.575.1081855698.20120.python-list at python.org...
> Hi all,
>
> I'm searching a tool that compile python script to an executable binary.
> I found the mcmillan installer but i can't find a valid url to download
it.
>
> Do someone know a valid url to download it or know another similar tool?
>
> Thanks.
> Gianluca
>
>
>
>




From wallacethinmintr at eircom.net  Wed Apr  7 10:05:29 2004
From: wallacethinmintr at eircom.net (Russell Wallace)
Date: Wed, 07 Apr 2004 14:05:29 GMT
Subject: Are line continuations needed?
Message-ID: <407409ef.82801353@news.eircom.net>

Hi all,

Python lets you continue a single logical line across more than one
physical line, either by putting a \ at the end or letting it happen
automatically with an incomplete infix operator.

I'm wondering how often is this feature needed? Would there be any
problems if it weren't part of the language?

-- 
"Sore wa himitsu desu."
To reply by email, remove
the small snack from address.
http://www.esatclear.ie/~rwallace


From mwh at python.net  Thu Apr  8 08:08:46 2004
From: mwh at python.net (Michael Hudson)
Date: Thu, 8 Apr 2004 12:08:46 GMT
Subject: Intermittant slow startup
References: <9badaf0.0404051033.9fec2db@posting.google.com>
	<4071A86D.97CA6CAE@alcyone.com>
	<9badaf0.0404051445.5b26b945@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <m3fzbesmcx.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk>

michaelmossey at yahoo.com (Michael Mossey) writes:

> Erik Max Francis <max at alcyone.com> wrote in message news:<4071A86D.97CA6CAE at alcyone.com>...
> > Michael Mossey wrote:
> > 
> > > Runnng python 2.2 on HP-UX, I get intermittant slow startup.
> > > Sometimes python starts up in a small fraction of a second, and
> > > sometimes takes 3-5 seconds.  This applies to any script I run, or
> > > just typing 'python' at the prompt.
> > > 
> > > I also observed something similar on Linux.
> > > 
> > > Any ideas what would cause *intermittant* slow startup?
> > 
> > Caching?  Is it a long time between invocations that it takes a long
> > time to start up?
> 
> It is quite intermittant without much of a pattern I can see.  One
> thing that is definitely true is that if I start up python several
> times in a row one right after the other, some can be slow and some
> fast.  I just observed it start fast twice, then start slow.  I don't
> remember if it ever does the other way around but I think it does.

Does HP-UX have a version of strace/truss/ktrace?

Cheers,
mwh

-- 
  In general, I'd recommend injecting LSD directly into your temples,
  Syd-Barret-style, before mucking with Motif's resource framework.
  The former has far lower odds of leading directly to terminal
  insanity.                                            -- Dan Martinez


From boudot-kim at wanadoo.fr  Mon Apr 26 11:07:41 2004
From: boudot-kim at wanadoo.fr (Seo-Kyeong KIM-BOUDOT)
Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2004 17:07:41 +0200
Subject: Paris python user group?
References: <408795ee$0$25893$79c14f64@nan-newsreader-02.noos.net>
	<c6d4pt$pca$1@news-reader2.wanadoo.fr>
Message-ID: <c6j8kn$ci3$1@news-reader5.wanadoo.fr>

moi je serais tres heureux qu'on fasse ca a la campagne :)
on peut organiser un week end python au soleil eheh

fb

"Michel Claveau/Hamster" <No.Spam.mc at No.Spam.mclaveau.No.Spam.com> a ?crit
dans le message news: c6d4pt$pca$1 at news-reader2.wanadoo.fr...
> Bonsoir !
>
> L'id?e est int?ressante. Je serait assez tent?, s'il n'y avait pas cette
> s?gr?gation pro-parisienne.
> C'est vrai, quoi !  Pourquoi vous limiter ? Paris ? Il y a des coins
> nettement moins pollu?s que Paris, et donc plus productif (pythoniquement
> parlant).
>
> Vive l'Ard?che !
>
>
> @+
> --
> Michel Claveau
>
>
>
>
>




From fgeiger at datec.at  Wed Apr 28 01:24:15 2004
From: fgeiger at datec.at (F. GEIGER)
Date: Wed, 28 Apr 2004 07:24:15 +0200
Subject: Debugging a python module as a form's action handler
References: <IWCjc.5098$g31.2262@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <c6nf6f$t4l$1@newshispeed.ch>

Wing IDE can do that (did it many times when I dev'ed a Webware app of
mine).

Cheers
Franz

"Edward Diener" <eldiener at earthlink.net> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:IWCjc.5098$g31.2262 at newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net...
> I am using Python in a CGI web application and need to be able to debug a
> Python module as a form handler. Is there a way to do this so that I can
> step through my module while it is handling the form's data ?
>
> I couldn't find much information at all in either IDLE or PythonWin about
> using the IDE's for debugging, so I thought I would ask here.
>
>




From gabor at z10n.net  Fri Apr 16 04:33:54 2004
From: gabor at z10n.net (gabor)
Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2004 10:33:54 +0200
Subject: Kuhlman's tutorials pretty good
In-Reply-To: <c5mmpu$3h1d4$1@ID-139865.news.uni-berlin.de>
References: <407E1E20.D0216E92@doe.carleton.ca>
	<200404150710.i3F7A0Hw010978@locutus.doe.carleton.ca>
	<407E40CC.C06FA9E3@doe.carleton.ca>
	<c5mmpu$3h1d4$1@ID-139865.news.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <1082104434.13313.17.camel@dubb>

On Thu, 2004-04-15 at 21:12, Dave Kuhlman wrote:
> Fred Ma wrote:
> 
> [snip]
> 
> >> However, in looking over 201, I see some scrambling of source
> >> code examples, vs. surrounding text, e.g. when he's getting into
> >> regular expressions, some of the examples have nothing to do with
> >> the explanations that follow.
> >> Notably sections 2.2, 2.3, 2.4, 2.5.  2.6 is mostly OK except:
> >> 
> >> """
> >> Put together a new string with string concatenation from pieces
> >> of the original string and replacement values. You can use string
> >> slices to get the sub-strings of the original string. In our
> >> case, the following gets the start of the string, adds the first
> >> replacement, adds the middle of the original string, adds the
> >> second replacement, and finally, adds the last part of the
> >> original string:
> >> 
> >> lineDef = delimitedList(fieldDef)
> >> """
> > 
> > Yes, they seem rearranged.  I'm not sure what Dr. Kuhlman's time
> > is like, but his tutorials are very good, and thus of great value
> > to
> > Python newbies everywhere.  ;)
> 
> Whoa!  How did all that happen?  I believe I tried one too many
> fancy things in TeX/LaTeX, which is definitely not my native
> language.

hmmm..could you also put on the web the latex sources? (or a ps/pdf
version?)...

or if it is already there, i can't find it :(

gabor




From peter at engcorp.com  Wed Apr 28 09:07:20 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Wed, 28 Apr 2004 09:07:20 -0400
Subject: Backticks: What up?
In-Reply-To: <PZCcnT7qvI2rchPdRWPC-w@speakeasy.net>
References: <PZCcnT7qvI2rchPdRWPC-w@speakeasy.net>
Message-ID: <cM-dndJYm-wUMRLd4p2dnA@powergate.ca>

Steven Brent wrote:

> I was wondering why the backticks in the following fragment:
> 
>         return 'Here's the result: ' + `self.data`
> 
> My guess is that in a return statement (as opposed to a print statement)
> it's necessary to do this in order to get the self.data instance attribute
> as a string, so it can be concatenated with the 'Here's the result: '
> string.
> 
> What exactly do the backticks do, then? Just return the result of an
> expression as a string? Does my guess make sense and / or is it correct?
> Elucidations and gentle ridicule welcome.

I was looking for the proper language ref but sometimes they
can be hard to track down:

   http://docs.python.org/ref/string-conversions.html

-Peter


From nuffsaid at phreaker.net  Thu Apr 29 18:01:52 2004
From: nuffsaid at phreaker.net (Nuff Said)
Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2004 00:01:52 +0200
Subject: Newbe-books
References: <Uldkc.29554$Qc.1128956@twister1.libero.it>
Message-ID: <pan.2004.04.29.22.01.51.304725@phreaker.net>

Since you have some programming background, I would recommend
David M. Beazley's "Python - Essential Reference (2nd edition)".

It gives a concise overview of the language and is a great 
reference book, too. (Not like many other books which are
- at most - good for one reading only.)

The 'Essential Reference (2nd edition)" covers Python 2.1. So you
should read A. M. Kuchling's "What's new in Python 2.x" for Python
2.2 and 2.3 (which one should always do when a new Python version
is released). The articles can be found on the Python Homepage:
  
  http://www.python.org/doc/2.2.3/whatsnew/whatsnew22.html
  http://www.python.org/doc/2.3.3/whatsnew/whatsnew23.html

The above mentioned book, the "What's new ...' articles and
the Python 'Library Reference'

  http://www.python.org/doc/2.3.3/lib/lib.html

are all you really need for a long time. (If you are interested
in GUI programming - e.g. Tkinter - you will need additional
sources of information. The same holds for other 'special' stuff.)

HTH, Nuff.



From michael at foord.net  Sat Apr 10 06:04:16 2004
From: michael at foord.net (Fuzzyman)
Date: 10 Apr 2004 03:04:16 -0700
Subject: Wrapper round x86 Assembler
References: <8089854e.0404082353.7bf163a2@posting.google.com>
	<4dKdnQlIXMIXIevdRVn-gg@powergate.ca>
Message-ID: <8089854e.0404100204.504186a0@posting.google.com>

Peter Hansen <peter at engcorp.com> wrote in message news:<4dKdnQlIXMIXIevdRVn-gg at powergate.ca>...
> Fuzzyman wrote:
> 
> > There might be a really good reason why this hasn't been done *or*
> > someone might have done it and I just can't find it..... *but*
> > 
> > what about a wrapper to an assembler (presumably for x86 assembly !)
> > !!
> > I just wrote some code doing binary operations which would have been
> > about a zillion times faster in a few lines of assembly code.
> 
> I refer you to "Pyrex"...
> 
> -Peter

If I understand correctly (which is probably not likely) - Pyrex is a
compiled language with some C syntax and some Python syntax.

Because the result is compiled, and  a step in the compile chain is
assembly, you could include inline assembly in the same way that you
could with C ??

Never having done any C programming that stretches the limit of my
knowledge.

*However* it's not quite what I had in mind. What I'd like to be able
to do is to access machine code subroutines from within normal python.

Not that exploring pyrex is a bad idea - I probably should.
I don't think my 'idea' would be hard to achieve, since effectively
all that would be needed is a wrapper to an existing freeware
assembler *and* an interface to the assembled 'objects'. Ho hum - a
bit beyond me at the moment and until I have a real burning need for
it will have to remain an idea......


Regards,


Fuzzy

http://www.voidspace.org.uk/atlantibots/pythonutils.html


From NAICTN_DOMAIN_1CTN-OFFICESRV at ctn.co.uk  Tue Apr 20 09:58:17 2004
From: NAICTN_DOMAIN_1CTN-OFFICESRV at ctn.co.uk (GroupShield for Exchange (CTN-OFFICESRV))
Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 14:58:17 +0100
Subject: ALERT -  GroupShield ticket number OA3207_1082469496_CTN-OFFICESR
	V_1 was generated
Message-ID: <B8CC2C15904E69498D05756B087404856579D5@ctn-officesrv.ctn.co.uk>

Action Taken:
The attachment was deleted from the message and replaced with a text file
informing the recipient of the action taken.

To:
triciaf at ctn.co.uk <triciaf at ctn.co.uk>

From:
python-list at python.org <python-list at python.org>

Sent:
-2027746304,29632223

Subject:
approved document_all

Attachment Details:-

Attachment Name: document.zip
File: document.zip
Infected? Yes
Repaired? No
Blocked? No
Deleted? Yes
Virus Name: W32/Netsky.p at MM!zip



	
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From arch at spyre.net  Thu Apr 22 18:15:54 2004
From: arch at spyre.net (A. Y. Chen)
Date: 22 Apr 2004 15:15:54 -0700
Subject: from vh3 import virthost / AddVirtDomain / Ensim / Apache
References: <c520nj$2ndag2$1@ID-59554.news.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <2a9bf4b4.0404221415.4313d267@posting.google.com>

Hi, I'm trying to do the same thing and getting the exact same problem
as you. Have you had any luck? Part of the difficulty is that the
files virthost.py and virtutil.py are probably compiles (in .pyc
form), and not located in those directories shown in the trace.
However, I still get the same error after I chmod those files.



"Dan Messenger" <NO-SPAM-PLEASEdanmessenga at hotmail.com> wrote in message news:<c520nj$2ndag2$1 at ID-59554.news.uni-berlin.de>...
> Hi,
> 
> I'm new to python, and am trying to use some premade scripts on RedHat 7,
> but its giving me errors.
> 
> The scripts are part of the Ensim hosting software, and when I run the
> command "AddVirtDomain" from a root shell, it works fine.
> 
> However when I call it from my php page, and thus running under the apache
> user, I get the following error:
> 
> Traceback (most recent call last):
> File "/usr/local/bin/AddVirtDomain", line 26, in ?
> from vh3 import virthost
> File "virtualhosting/virthost.py", line 46, in ?
> File
> "/home/build/qa/webppliance/3.1.11/2/lwp/vaishali2/WebGui/base/services/vh3/
> virtualhosting/virtutil.py", line 14, in ?
> ImportError: No module named logging
> 
> The first file mentioned is the one I am running, and 2nd two dont even
> exist - tho the script runs fine under a root shell.
> 
> To me this indicates a permissions problem - but permissions to what? The
> files mentioned dont exist !
> 
> Anybody got any ideas ?
> Thanks in advance
> -Dan


From eastier at free.fr  Thu Apr 22 05:26:11 2004
From: eastier at free.fr (Emmanuel)
Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2004 11:26:11 +0200
Subject: Generator inside a class prevent __del__ ??
References: <4085BA96.651D2E4A@free.fr><mailman.819.1082507351.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<40866ECD.A45758B9@free.fr>
	<mailman.861.1082570477.20120.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <40878FB3.FE0507D2@free.fr>



Terry Reedy a ?crit :

> "Emmanuel" <eastier at free.fr> wrote in message
> news:40866ECD.A45758B9 at free.fr...
> >
> >
> > Terry Reedy a ?crit :
> > > > >>> class toto:
> > > >             def __init__(self):
> > > >                 print "init"
> > > >                 self.Coroutine = self.Gen()
> > >
> > > This creates a reference loop.  Delete this (and correct typo below)
> and
> > > 'problem' will disappear.
>
> To amplify: the usual idiom for an instance-associated generator is to name
> the generator function (method) __iter__ (with one param,  self) and to
> create and get a reference to the generator via iter() or let the for loop
> mechanism do so for you.
>
> c = C(*args)
> cgen =iter(c)
>
> Then there is no reference loop.  And you can pass around the cgen object
> just like any other.  If you only need the instance after initialization to
> get the generator and you only need one generator for the instance, then
> combine the two lines into
>
> cgen = iter(C(*args))
>
> and the *only* reference to the instance is the one in the generator, which
> will disappear at the end of a for loop or with an explicit 'del cgen'.

But I obviously need other references to my object in my code, my object isn't
modified by the generator only.
I want to resume my generator from time to time during the execution of my app,
and to modify the members of the objects somewhere else ( interaction between
my objects ).
Doing this result in my nicer programmation style than without generators.


>
>
> There is also the question whether you actually *need* to get rid of the
> object while the program is still running instead of just letting the
> program finish and clean up.
>

I have a _lot_ of objects created whenever they want, and I don't know where
they will finish their job.
Additionnaly, I'm not developping only on PC, but also on platforms where there
is not so much memory avalaible.

By the way, it seems I still have a lot to understand on this subject.
Do you know any link, example, or whatever, that I could have a look at ?

Thank you very much for your answers,

Emmanuel




From danb_83 at yahoo.com  Wed Apr  7 10:16:35 2004
From: danb_83 at yahoo.com (Dan Bishop)
Date: 7 Apr 2004 07:16:35 -0700
Subject: min() with custom compare.
References: <20040407114407.0a07d143@pistache.sara.nl>
	<m2n05oxdiv.fsf@unique.phony.fqdn>
Message-ID: <ad052e5c.0404070616.63217f2d@posting.google.com>

Heather Coppersmith <me at privacy.net> wrote in message news:<m2n05oxdiv.fsf at unique.phony.fqdn>...
> On Wed, 7 Apr 2004 11:44:07 +0200,
> Bram Stolk <bram at nospam.sara.nl> wrote:
> 
> [ example of sort with custom compare function snipped ]
> 
> > What if I need only a max, or min value, and not a complete
> > sort, but I do want to have a custom compare func.  What could I
> > do?
...
> 
>     def absolulte_minimum_function( x, y ):
>         x, y = abs( x ), abs( y )
>         if x < y:
>             return x
>         else:
>             return y
> 
>     minimum = reduce( absolute_minimum_function, l )
> 
> There's probably some (awfully horrible) lambda-embeddable
> equivalent to absolute_minimum_function, but I'm not about to try
> to figure it out right now, and even if I did, I'd probably end up
> not using it anyway.

minimum = reduce(lambda x, y: min(abs(x), abs(y)), l)


From pinard at iro.umontreal.ca  Fri Apr 23 15:22:01 2004
From: pinard at iro.umontreal.ca (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Fran=E7ois?= Pinard)
Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2004 15:22:01 -0400
Subject: if (__name__ == '__main__'): main(sys.argv[1:])
In-Reply-To: <m3r7uen0lt.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk>
References: <01c601c4271b$7f7300a0$b401010a@sparta>
	<4085A445.1050303@heneryd.com>
	<mailman.833.1082551131.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<m3hdvcpb9s.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk>
	<20040423155026.GB5587@alcyon.progiciels-bpi.ca>
	<m3r7uen0lt.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <20040423192201.GA7974@alcyon.progiciels-bpi.ca>

(Note: this is about having a line `__metaclass__ = type' near the
beginning of a Python program.)

[Michael Hudson]
> I like my code to do things similar to what it looks like it's doing.
> To me,
>     class MyClass:
>         ...
> says "classic class".

I understand your concern.  But since I do not want classic classes
anymore in my code, I prefer to read all classes as new style, as
blindly as possible.  If I ever wanted to specify a class as old-style
(but I never had the need so far), I would write:

    from types import ClassType

    class MyOldClass:
        __metaclass__ = ClassType
        ...

Why would you want to specifically use classic classes in these days?

-- 
Fran?ois Pinard   http://www.iro.umontreal.ca/~pinard



From noemail at noemail4u.com  Thu Apr  8 07:47:33 2004
From: noemail at noemail4u.com (Dang Griffith)
Date: Thu, 08 Apr 2004 11:47:33 GMT
Subject: CGI Problems With Xitami
References: <8089854e.0404072356.7f33f440@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <bbd8e91077326cb7c368fdc4e47a6909@news.teranews.com>

On 8 Apr 2004 00:56:59 -0700, michael at foord.net (Fuzzyman) wrote:

>All of a sudden the 'POST' method has stopped working - when I specify
>'POST' as the method in forms... the CGI gets no data... and I really
>don't want to use 'GET' as it makes the password visible in the URL...
>
>I've looked in the CGI options of the Xitami config and I can't find
>anything amiss, or even especially relevant. The Xitami docs say
>'POST' should work fine (of course they don't mention python).
>
>Anyone any suggestions or experience.
>(Yes I've checked the form construction in the hTML templates - it's
>fine. The values don't even make it to Fieldstorage...)

Try capturing the generated HTML source and run it through TidyHTML.

http://tidy.sourceforge.net/
http://www.w3.org/People/Raggett/tidy/

It could be something in that page is causing the browser not to post
the data.

    --dang


From therve at neocles.com  Thu Apr 29 09:58:38 2004
From: therve at neocles.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Thomas_Herv=E9?=)
Date: Thu, 29 Apr 2004 15:58:38 +0200
Subject: Problem with socket
In-Reply-To: <408ffd56$0$17252$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
References: <408f7917$0$27016$626a14ce@news.free.fr>
	<408ffd56$0$17252$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
Message-ID: <40910985$0$22886$626a14ce@news.free.fr>

Grant Edwards wrote:
> On 2004-04-28, Thomas Herv? <therve at neocles.com> wrote:
> 
> 
>>Ok I hope it's clear. My problem is that "select" only tests
>>if there's data on the socket, and not the state of the
>>socket.
> 
> That's not true.  If the socket is closed, it will return from
> select as readable.

Exact.

>>I want to be able to know if socket is "alive" or something
>>like that. But I don't want to make "send" in the client (stay
>>passive). Then, if I know that my socket is closed or my link
>>down, I can try to reconnect periodically.
> 
> You'll know if the socket is closed because select will mark it
> as readable, and you'll get 0 bytes when you read it.

It seems that it's not true : when I read it I have a "Connection reset 
by peer" error.

> If you want to know if the network or the other host has "gone
> away", set the SO_KEEPALIVE option on the socket.  That will
> generate an error if the link is down. IIRC, it takes 75
> minutes (or is it 150?) to time out after the other end goes
> away.

Yes, I've seen this option, but the delay is a bit too large (2 hours ? 
depending on OS it seems) and not configurable. So I made it by send 
some hearbeat regulary, even if I didn't want to I haven't found another 
way. And it's better for server side, from which I can make some recv 
that make the break found earlier.

-- 
Thomas Herve


From imbosol at aerojockey.com  Fri Apr 16 16:02:57 2004
From: imbosol at aerojockey.com (Carl Banks)
Date: 16 Apr 2004 13:02:57 -0700
Subject: CamelCase versus wide_names (Prothon)
References: <UHxfc.9323$dZ1.3740@fed1read04>
	<1XIfc.246$GN6.122@fe2.columbus.rr.com>
	<slrnc7uo0d.ajs.joe@gate.notcharles.ca>
Message-ID: <60dfb6f6.0404161202.14748d0a@posting.google.com>

Joe Mason <joe at notcharles.ca> wrote in message news:<slrnc7uo0d.ajs.joe at gate.notcharles.ca>...
> In article <1XIfc.246$GN6.122 at fe2.columbus.rr.com>, Carl Banks wrote:
> > but avoid the wide names when they're uber-ugly and unreadable in
> > operator-laden code like this:
> > 
> >     pitch_rate_coefficient = pitch_rate*mean_aerodynamic_chord/total_airspeed
> 
> Spaces are a much better way to fix this than camelCase.
> 
>   pitch_rate_coefficient = pitch_rate * mean_aerodynamic_chord /
>                            total_airspeed

Well, when you get into more complicated examples, with lots of
operators and parentheses, the spaces don't help much either.  Also, I
like to use spaces to give a visual clue about nesting level, so I
don't used them in the most nested operations.

But if it makes you feel better, I don't actually use camel case
there, either.  I just string the words together with no underscores
and all lower case.  The OP had ruled that one out, though.


> > It would not surprise me if the people who prefer wide names tend to
> > be applications-type programmers, whereas those who prefer camel case
> > naming tend to be numerical-type programmers.
> 
> I'm somewhat surprised numerical-type programmers don't just use 
> ubershort variable names.  Using _ for subscript:
> 
>   P_r_c = P_r * ADC_m / A_t
> 
> (I'm not advocating this style, but seems like direct translations from
> math or engineering algorithms would encourage it.)

I do advocate retaining the nomenclature of the domain you're
programming in, as long as the names are of local variables or
structure attributes.  However, the OP's question was about neither
local variables nor domain-specific naming, so I didn't bother with
this possibility.


-- 
CARL BANKS


From jonas at jonasgalvez.com  Wed Apr 21 14:26:11 2004
From: jonas at jonasgalvez.com (Jonas Galvez)
Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2004 15:26:11 -0300
Subject: Stupid Regex Question
References: <DE1CF2B4FEC4A342BF62B6B2B334601E562036@opus.amorhq.net>
Message-ID: <c66efj$pru$1@sea.gmane.org>

> [Robert Brewer]
> I do it by hand, too. But cf.
> http://article.gmane.org/gmane.comp.python.general/339488, the post
> to which I originally replied. ;)

Actually, I do that *only* to my own posts, and here's the reason:

    > [Me]
    > I wrote this

    And I'm writing this too.

    Me

A little weird, don't you think? Hehe :-D


Cheers,


=-
Jonas Galvez
jonasgalvez.com/blog
macromedia.com/go/team







From mogmios at mlug.missouri.edu  Wed Apr 28 00:34:02 2004
From: mogmios at mlug.missouri.edu (Michael)
Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2004 21:34:02 -0700
Subject: Is Perl *that* good?
In-Reply-To: <DE1CF2B4FEC4A342BF62B6B2B334601E56206C@opus.amorhq.net>
References: <DE1CF2B4FEC4A342BF62B6B2B334601E56206C@opus.amorhq.net>
Message-ID: <408F343A.1060609@mlug.missouri.edu>


>I wish Python had won, as well. But time is linear (in my mind). I now
>wish only that we could leverage the similarity of JS and Python
>(execution and binding models) into more Python users. Marketing needs
>to run with the line, "So you know Javascript? Then you know Python!"
>
I wish Python could be ran inside a browser as a client-side scripting 
language. I've seen it done but it'd be awesome to seen done properly 
and intergrated into something like Mozilla.



From tzot at sil-tec.gr  Mon Apr  5 06:11:38 2004
From: tzot at sil-tec.gr (Christos TZOTZIOY Georgiou)
Date: Mon, 05 Apr 2004 13:11:38 +0300
Subject: Using ST_ATIME to watch for files being read
References: <939f49f8.0404020739.70a7750a@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <f6c270tr9bassqbif3vvst3p8pb834iqsc@4ax.com>

On 2 Apr 2004 07:39:38 -0800, rumours say that iamlevis3 at hotmail.com
(Chris) might have written:

Hi Chris,

>I need to monitor a bunch of files to see what is being opened, read,
>and closed, with no modifications being made.  This is being done
>first on Windows machines, and later on Solaris.

<snip>

># from the i.shell.  st_atime date is inside >>><<<
>>>> os.stat("c:\\devtemp\\python\\1.txt")
>(33206, 0L, 2, 1, 0, 0, 3L, >>>1080919329<<<, 1080919329, 1080918583)

># now i open c:\devtemp\python\1.txt, close it, and rerun

How exactly do you open the file?  Through python or through an external
program (eg notepad)?  If only through python, do you read any data?  I
believe you have to read data for the access time to be updated.

>>>> os.stat("c:\\devtemp\\python\\1.txt")
>(33206, 0L, 2, 1, 0, 0, 3L, >>>1080919329<<<, 1080919329, 1080918583)
>
>The Win32 books states that stat.ST_ATIME is "the time the file was
>last accessed or zero if the filesystem doesn't support this
>information".  Obviously I'm missing something, or maybe atime isn't
>the best thing for me to use in this situation.  Hoping someone can
>provide guidance.

Windows has a weird behaviour even with st_mtime... I have a directory
structure in a USB disk, which, taking advantage of NTFS capability for
hard links, I present under two different views for the users of my
network.  To avoid re-reading the contents of all files, I keep a cache
of (relative-filename, size, modification time); by comparing the cache
to the actual directory structure, every time I change a couple of
files, I read only the changed ones to decide where in the linked
structures I will present them.

I have found (through trial and error) that the modification time does
not show up immediately, esp. if the file is modified in the linked
directory structures... I tried even using a sync.exe from sysinternals,
but that doesn't change a lot.  So, after a change, I wait a couple of
minutes and then I run the python script that relinks the files.
Everything works this way.
-- 
TZOTZIOY, I speak England very best,
Ils sont fous ces Redmontains! --Harddix


From carl at l5web.net  Fri Apr  2 21:02:54 2004
From: carl at l5web.net (Carl L)
Date: 2 Apr 2004 18:02:54 -0800
Subject: Installing Python 2.3.3 on RH 7.3
References: <106e6nge2aiiqa9@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <5fb57772.0404021802.a3e0e75@posting.google.com>

"Rien Kok" <rien at focus.demon.nl> wrote in message news:<106e6nge2aiiqa9 at corp.supernews.com>...
> Hi,
> 
> I have a strange problem. I want to install Plone
> (Plone2-2.0.0rh-2.i386.rpm) Because Plone 2.0 needs Python 2.3.3, I
> installed Python 2.3.3 from source (Python-2.3.3.tar).
> 
> Everything went well. After installing Python I did a reboot of the server
> and checked if Python works.
> 
>       Quote:
>       [root at homeserver root]# python
>       Python 2.3.3 (#1, Mar 28 2004, 11:29:35)
>       [GCC 2.96 20000731 (Red Hat Linux 7.3 2.96-113)] on linux2
>       Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>       >>>
> 
> 
> So I suppose I installed the right version of Python. But when I tried to
> install Plone2-2.0.0rh-2.i386.rpm it gives the following error:
> 
>       Quote:
>       [root at homeserver Zope-Plone]# rpm -Uvh Plone2-2.0.0rh-2.i386.rpm
>       error: failed dependencies:
>       /usr/bin/python2.3 is needed by Plone2-2.0.0rh-2
>       expat >= 1.95.5 is needed by Plone2-2.0.0rh-2
>       libc.so.6(GLIBC_2.3) is needed by Plone2-2.0.0rh-2
>       python2.3 >= 2.3.3 is needed by Plone2-2.0.0rh-2
> 
> 
> When I installed Python from source, Python was installed in
> "/usr/local/bin/" in stead of "/usr/bin/" so I copied "Python2.3" from
> "/usr/local/bin/" to "/usr/bin/" but that doesn't help.
> 
> What can I do to change (or extend) the path so Plone can find the right
> version of Python.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Rien

Rien,

I have the same problem with install Plone 2 on Redhat 9.0.  Did you
find an answer to the problem?

Carl


From daniel at dreamflavor.com  Sun Apr 25 13:48:36 2004
From: daniel at dreamflavor.com (Daniel)
Date: 25 Apr 2004 10:48:36 -0700
Subject: my first program- List Box help?
Message-ID: <aa821dd3.0404250948.2a49843b@posting.google.com>

I am new to python and am trying to make a front end for an emulator.
I am using python, livewires and pygame. I am able to do everything I
want except createa list box.

 

I have a background image with 5 other images on top of it. I have an
xml file with a list of 10,000 games. I want to import that list into
a scrollable text box. I want to use the arrow keys to scroll it. As
the names scroll in the text box I want the images to change also. So
if you are on PAC-MAN in the text box you will see 5 images named
folder1/PAC-MAN.png folder2/PAC-MAN.png and so on. If you hit down it
would go to the next game in the list and images the images would
update to show the new game. If you hit enter it would start
emulator.bat PAC-MAN.zip. Also it needs to be full screen.

 

So I think all I need to learn how to do is draw a text box that
imports a xml file and with every click of an arrow key it updates a
variable. I also do not know how to start the bat file. But I think I
might be able to figure out on my own.


From jdhunter at ace.bsd.uchicago.edu  Fri Apr 30 07:43:57 2004
From: jdhunter at ace.bsd.uchicago.edu (John Hunter)
Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2004 06:43:57 -0500
Subject: operator double() surprise in cxx
In-Reply-To: <pan.2004.04.30.05.54.47.953852@ifrance.com>
	=?iso-8859-1?q?(Beno=EEt?= Dejean's message of "Fri,
	30 Apr 2004 07:54:47 +0200")
References: <mailman.145.1083293891.25742.python-list@python.org>
	<pan.2004.04.30.05.54.47.953852@ifrance.com>
Message-ID: <m21xm5snb6.fsf@mother.paradise.lost>

>>>>> "Beno?t" == Beno?t Dejean <bnetNOSPAM at ifrance.com> writes:
    >> double l( Py::Float(rect[0]) ); double b( Py::Float(rect[1]) );

    Beno?t> everything that looks/tastes/sounds like a function
    Beno?t> declaration is (even with parameters.

Interesting.

So you are saying I can do

  double l(1);

because this could not be a function declaration so the double
constructor is called with an integer argument, but in

  double l( Py::Float(rect[0]) );

the compiler thinks I am declaring a function l that takes Py::Float*
as an argument and returns a double?  Hmm.  This line was inside a
class method -- I didn't think you could declare functions in a class
method....

Still confused, but perhaps on the road to enlightenment.

JDH



From peter at engcorp.com  Fri Apr 16 10:01:35 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2004 10:01:35 -0400
Subject: AOP use cases
In-Reply-To: <cb035744.0404160442.2f0b1661@posting.google.com>
References: <84fc4588.0404140106.3fa0c55@posting.google.com>
	<slrnc7q1ss.1aa.alf@largo.fayauffre.org>
	<cb035744.0404141130.170f51c4@posting.google.com>
	<slrnc7sgat.vp.alf@largo.fayauffre.org>
	<cb035744.0404160442.2f0b1661@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <0pydnSB4WYuieuLdRVn-hQ@powergate.ca>

Will Stuyvesant wrote:

> What are good usage examples?

I would be very interested to hear some real-world and real useful
use cases for AOP as well.  So far, the logging example seems to
be put forth so often that I'm starting to suspect that's the
*only* "useful" thing people are doing with it. :-)

 From direct personal experience, could some AOP folks please
point out some compelling use cases so that the doubting
Thomases (and Wills, and Peters) can better understand and
accept the idea of AOP as being more than just a few fringe
cases?

(The logging one actually annoys me: the only time I've ever
wanted such logging was when debugging very complicated problems,
and since switching to TDD I have never encountered anything
that even remotely made me consider writing such logging wrappers
again.)

-Peter


From no.email at please.com  Mon Apr 12 05:55:05 2004
From: no.email at please.com (Stevie_Mac)
Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2004 10:55:05 +0100
Subject: pythonwin crash (used to work) - please help quick.
References: <5Reec.62668$Id.61067@news-binary.blueyonder.co.uk>
	<mailman.537.1081743469.20120.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <c5dp0j$2egt$1@news.wplus.net>

I think seen somthing like this on net somewhere when i was searching.

So if I understand this, a python GUI can't debug a script that uses code
from any other GUI implementation (like wx for example)?

If so, dang! Whats my options - different IDE - or - no debug!

wait, im sure when I tried to run the script direct (through python and
pythonw) it still bombed - but in pyShell it didn't - hows that?

Stevie_Mac :confused:


"Paul Prescod" <paul at prescod.net> wrote in message
news:mailman.537.1081743469.20120.python-list at python.org...
> Stevie_mac wrote:
>
> > OS=XP, Python 2.3, wx2.5.1.5u
> > Not sure what's to blame here - or to be more precise, how to fix it!...
> >
> > If I do this in PythonWin...
> > import wx
> > d = wx.Dialog(None, -1, 'title')
> > BANG - IDE crashes
>
> It typically doesn't work to have two GUIs in one process. PythonWin
> uses MFC. Wx is a totally different GUI.
>
>   Paul Prescod
>
>
>






From asdf at asdf.com  Thu Apr 22 15:48:12 2004
From: asdf at asdf.com (asdf sdf)
Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2004 19:48:12 GMT
Subject: python web programming / CMS
In-Reply-To: <XnQhc.82310$X%7.5425202@phobos.telenet-ops.be>
References: <EOOhc.82192$A9.5538906@phobos.telenet-ops.be>
	<mailman.910.1082637637.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<XnQhc.82310$X%7.5425202@phobos.telenet-ops.be>
Message-ID: <0kVhc.54316$eB7.29255@newssvr25.news.prodigy.com>

> 1. Am i correct in thinking i would have to add for instance FastCGI to
> the Spyce install in order to get it working?
> 
> 2. In jsp, i often used my own java objects in the code. Can you also do
> this with Spyce? For instance, if i would have to get data from a db, i
> would
> make an object that implements code to do this and then create an instance
> of that object in a PSP. Is this doable?
> 
> 3. What databases can be accessed from Python?

i've only played a bit with Spyce.

you can use it as plain CGI, or you can use FastCGI or modpython.  your 
choice.

you can invoke python scripts which can make database connections.

database support isn't built into Spyce.  you get the python-wrapper for 
whatever database you want.  a bunch are available.  certainly all the 
major databases.

modpython has recently greatly expanded its scope.  now it includes PSP 
style functionality.  also session support.  seems to overlap pretty 
heavily/maybe subsume what Spyce does.

i tried asking on the modpython group for a comparison of modpython PSP 
v. Spyce PSP, especially  in terms on completeness, stability, scope, etc.

i triggered an interesting discussion of PSP-style templates, but no one 
directly answered my question.

Be advised also there are other python PSP-style projects out there, 
including one named PSP.

Also I hope you realize none of these projects are a CMS framework of 
any sort.  They are tools with which you could write your own.

I assume your CMS requirements are very minimal or you would avoid 
trying to reinvent the wheel.




From claird at lairds.com  Mon Apr 26 16:33:44 2004
From: claird at lairds.com (Cameron Laird)
Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2004 20:33:44 -0000
Subject: alternative python compilers/vms? (like java)
References: <pan.2004.04.22.16.09.35.766000@project2501.cor>
	<c68rnr$2br$03$1@news.t-online.com>
	<c68u44$1fql$1@biggoron.nerim.net>
Message-ID: <108qsh8bo27vp3e@corp.supernews.com>

In article <c68u44$1fql$1 at biggoron.nerim.net>,
Yermat  <loic at yermat.net1.nerim.net> wrote:
>Diez B. Roggisch a ?crit :
>> project2501 wrote:
>> 
>> 
>>>are there alternative compilers for python? or different VMs to run the
>>>bytecode?
>>>
>>>similar to IBM java jvm and sun jvm, and other jvms? jikes, gcj?
>> 
>> 
>> there is jython, a very popular python 2.1 implementation on top of the java
>> vm.
>> 
>> Apart from that, AFAIX python is not specified in terms of a vm, as java is.
>> The bytecode might actually change between versions.
>> 
>
>There is also IronPython for .NET.
>
>By now, the python byte code is considered as "an implementation detail" 
>that is why it is not specified...
>It might disappear in the future... or not. ;-)
>
>So it seems that we cannot rely on it for whatever purpose !
>
>-- 
>Yermat
>

<URL: http://phaseit.net/claird/comp.lang.python/python_varieties.html >
might interest the original questioner.
-- 

Cameron Laird <claird at phaseit.net>
Business:  http://www.Phaseit.net


From peter.maas at mplusr.de  Thu Apr  8 08:47:30 2004
From: peter.maas at mplusr.de (Peter Maas)
Date: Thu, 08 Apr 2004 14:47:30 +0200
Subject: Are line continuations needed?
In-Reply-To: <c51bqt$v1p$04$1@news.t-online.com>
References: <407409ef.82801353@news.eircom.net>
	<c518tu$k4b$1@swifty.westend.com>
	<c51bqt$v1p$04$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <c53hht$qjp$1@swifty.westend.com>

Peter Otten wrote:
>>d = { 'key1' : 'A very very long string of several hundred '\
>>           'characters. I could use a multi-line string but '\
[...]
>>>>d = {1: "Hi Peter, "
> 
> ...         "what do you "
> ...         "think of this?"}

You got me :) I know implicit line continuation but thought that
it applies only to cases where the strings are direct elements of
the bracket like in ["s1", "s2"]. OK, then my example should read

s = 'A very very long string of several hundred '\
     'characters. I could use a multi-line string but '\
[...]

If there are more than three lines you will type less with a
pair of brackets.

Mit freundlichen Gruessen,

Peter Maas

-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Peter Maas, M+R Infosysteme, D-52070 Aachen, Hubert-Wienen-Str. 24
Tel +49-241-93878-0 Fax +49-241-93878-20 eMail peter.maas at mplusr.de
-------------------------------------------------------------------


From project5 at redrival.net  Fri Apr  2 16:22:11 2004
From: project5 at redrival.net (Andrei)
Date: Fri, 2 Apr 2004 23:22:11 +0200
Subject: Making the Zen of Python more useful
References: <106qp0uivlefo40@corp.supernews.com>
	<BPWdnVtfl7ma5PDdRVn-sw@powergate.ca>
	<c4jvc3$b0b$1@news-int.gatech.edu>
	<-5ydnTEmxfuZHvDdRVn-iQ@powergate.ca>
	<c4k1hb$cdg$1@news-int.gatech.edu>
	<abqdneFj-dP8APDd4p2dnA@powergate.ca>
	<c4k9b6$1un$1@news-int2.gatech.edu>
	<GqqdnTyLBpT7MfDdRVn-jg@powergate.ca>
Message-ID: <135x6c17eiagn.10nki10lpeg9p$.dlg@40tude.net>

Peter Hansen wrote on Fri, 02 Apr 2004 13:09:42 -0500:

<snip> 
> One could expand on that idea as well, such as to satisfy those who
> are overly obsessed with performance issues:
> 
>    import wxPython rapidly

Hey, that's a pretty neat idea :). A dummy 'rapidly' keyword would be worth
it even if just for the psychological effects it would have. But I'd
suggest to make it more versatile, not tie it to import: you should be
allowed to optimize bottlenecks by adding 'rapidly' to them!

-- 
Yours,

Andrei

=====
Real contact info (decode with rot13):
cebwrpg5 at jnanqbb.ay. Fcnz-serr! Cyrnfr qb abg hfr va choyvp cbfgf. V ernq
gur yvfg, fb gurer'f ab arrq gb PP.


From jcarlson at uci.edu  Sat Apr 10 18:47:09 2004
From: jcarlson at uci.edu (Josiah Carlson)
Date: Sat, 10 Apr 2004 15:47:09 -0700
Subject: Changing the default string object used by the interpreter
In-Reply-To: <1081577328.739901@bats.mcs.vuw.ac.nz>
References: <1081577328.739901@bats.mcs.vuw.ac.nz>
Message-ID: <c59tnr$sgh$1@news.service.uci.edu>

> I'm wondering if anyone can suggest a way, short of directly hacking the 
> python interpreter, to change the default str class to a different one. 
>  ie. So that every time a str instance is created, it uses *my* class 
> instead of the built-in python string.  Is there anything hidden away 
> that can be overloaded that might make this possible to do?

Mike,

I don't believe so.  There would need to be quite a few changes to the C 
internals of Python in order to make /every/ string created or generated 
be of your string class.

I would suggest you just wrap the Python strings with your own class 
whenever you need it...

def myfunct(arg, ...):
     if isinstance(arg, str):
         arg = MyClass(arg)
     #rest of the function body.


With the upcoming decorator syntax for 2.4, you could decorate all of 
your functions to do this, or if you are careful, you could use the 
below now (as long as MyClass was a subclass of object)...

def auto_wrap(*arg_types):
     def funct(function):
         def funct_with_arguments(*args):
             a = []
             for typ, arg in zip(arg_types, args):
                 if isinstance(typ, type):
                     a.append(typ(arg))
                 else:
                     a.append(arg)
              return function(*a)
         return funct_with_arguments
     return funct

#using current syntax..
def myfunct(arg):
     #rest of function body

myfunct = auto_wrap(MyClass)(myfunct)

#using Guido and other's preferred decorator syntax...
[auto_wrap(MyClass)]
def myfunct(arg):
     #rest of function body

#using another group's preferred decorator syntax...
def myfunct(arg) [auto_wrap(MyClass)]:
     #rest of function body


  - Josiah


From meyer at acm.org  Wed Apr  7 10:22:42 2004
From: meyer at acm.org (Andre Meyer)
Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2004 14:22:42 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Dynamic creation of an object instance of a class by name
Message-ID: <loom.20040407T161105-370@post.gmane.org>

Hi all

I have been searching everywhere for this, but have not found a solution, yet.

What I need is to create is an object that is an instance of a class (NOT a
class instance!) of which I only know the name as a string. This what I tried:

class A:
   def __init__(self, id):
      self.id = id
   def getID(self):
     print self.id

ca = new.classobj('A', (), {})
oa1 = ca()
oa2 = new.instance(ca)

oa1
<__main__.A instance at 0x007E8AF8>

oa1.getID()
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
AttributeError: A instance has no attribute 'getID'

oa2
<__main__.A instance at 0x007E8AF8>

oa2.getID()
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
AttributeError: A instance has no attribute 'getID'


Thus, both ways only produce a class instance, but NOT an object of that
class!!! How can I get a new object instance???
What else needs to be filled in for base_classes and __dict__ in new.classobj?


Any help is appreciated, this is driving me nuts!

kind regards
Andre





From fredrik at pythonware.com  Fri Apr 16 15:19:00 2004
From: fredrik at pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2004 21:19:00 +0200
Subject: empty window when using askopenfile
References: <ac259413.0404161054.3bcaeaa8@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <c5pbih$221$1@sea.gmane.org>

Sorin Gherman wrote:

> Is there any way to minimize/hide the annoying default, empty Tk
> window that shows behind the native file opening dialog , when using
> askopenfile, etc, in tkCommonDialog?

explicitly create the root window, and withdraw it from the
screen before you call askopenfile:

    import Tkinter

    root = Tkinter.Tk()
    root.withdraw()

    file = tkFileDialog.askopenfile(...)

</F>

Got Tkinter questions?
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tkinter-discuss
has the answers.






From dmq at gain.com  Tue Apr 27 19:39:16 2004
From: dmq at gain.com (David MacQuigg)
Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2004 16:39:16 -0700
Subject: Ideas for Python 3
References: <s1pt80h988ucqd8vbrd3occhpagtpssigg@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <onrt805i8q1qv5amhk06pqpe8umm9i7mhc@4ax.com>

Mike, thanks for a very thorough and thoughtful review of this
proposal.

On Mon, 26 Apr 2004 22:00:50 -0400, "Mike C. Fletcher"
<mcfletch at rogers.com> wrote:

>David MacQuigg wrote:
>...
>
>>All methods look like functions (which students already understand).
>>  
>>
>I think it might be more proper to say that you've made all functions 
>methods with an implicitly defined target, but I suppose the statement 
>is still technically true.

A function with no instance variables is identical to a function
defined outside a class.  In that case, the only way to tell if it is
a method or a function is to look at the surrounding code.  "Method"
is one of those mystery words that tend to put off non-CIS students.
I use it when it is necessary to distinguish a method from a function,
but otherwise I prefer the term function.  It emphasizes the
similarity to what the students already know.

>>Benefits of Proposed Syntax
>>===========================
>>-- Unification of all function forms ( bound, unbound, static, class,
>>lambda ).  All will have the same form as a normal function
>>definition.  This will make it easier to teach OOP.  Students will
>>already understand functions and modules.  OOP is a small step up.  A
>>prototype will look just like a module ( except for the instance
>>variables ).  See Parallels between Prototypes and Modules below.
>>  
>>
>This is nice.  Not "I'm going to rush out to adopt a language because of 
>it" nice, but nice enough.  I'm curious about one thing:
>
>    proto x( object ):
>        flog :( x, y ):
>           .x = x
>    a = x()
>    b = x()
>    a.flog = b.flog
>    a.flog()
>    print b.x
>
>In other words, how do I hold a reference to a bound method/function if 
>there are no such things and only the "last access" determines what the 
>implicit target is?  Just to be clear, I'm assuming you're going to have 
>storage *somewhere* so that:
>
>    a = module.do
>    a()
>
>works.

Bound and unbound functions work just like in Python.  This is where I
differ with Prothon, on the need for special binding syntax.

>>-- Using an explicit __self__ variable avoids the magic first
>>argument, and makes it easier to explain instance variables.  See the
>>sections below comparing a brief explanation of instance variables in
>>Python vs the simplified form.  A full presentation of OOP, like pages
>>295-390 in Learning Python, 2nd ed. will likely be 1/2 the number of
>>pages.  Not only is the basic presentation simpler, but we can
>>eliminate a lot of discussion of lambda functions, static methods,
>>etc.
>>  
>>
>This is a wash IMO, with the explicit "self" having a slight edge on 
>"Explicit is better than Implicit" grounds.  You now have to explain 
>where the magic __self__ comes from instead of how self is bound when 
>you access the instance's method.  They're both magic, the Python stuff 
>is just explicitly visible.  Still, since you're coding it deep into 
>this new language, it'll be first nature to the Whateverthon programmer.
>
>On a personal note, the moment where I "got" the concept of methods 
>(Python was my first OO language) was seeing "self" in the argument list 
>of a function and realising that it's just a parameter curried into the 
>function by doing x.method lookup.  That is, it just looked like any 
>other function, the parameter was just a parameter, nothing special, 
>nothing requiring any extra knowledge save how it got bound (and that's 
>pretty darn simple).  Coming from a structures+functions background it 
>made complete sense.

I assume no background other than what the students will know from
studying Python up to the point of introducing OOP.  At this point,
they have a good understanding of functions and global variables.

I've seen a lot of discussion on the "explicitness" of self in Python,
and I have to conclude that most of it is missing the real problem,
which is complexity from the fact that some functions have a special
first argument and others don't.  It is hard to compare alternatives
by focusing our microscope on something as small as setting a global
variable vs inserting a special first argument.

What I would do in comparing complexity is look at the length of basic
but complete "textbook explanations" of the alternatives.  I've copied
at the end of this post the explanation of instance variables from my
OOP chapter at http://ece.arizona.edu/~edatools/Python/  I've also
made my best effort to write an equivalent explanation of Python's
instance variables.  Comments are welcome.  Also, if anyone can write
a better explanation for Python's syntax, please post it.

>>-- All attributes of a prototype ( both data and functions ) will be
>>in a neat column, making it easier to find a particular attribute when
>>visually scanning a program.  Understanding the structure of a program
>>will be almost as quick as seeing a UML diagram.
>>  
>>
>Can't say I find it particularly compelling as an argument, not if 
>introducing punctuation-itis is the cost, anyway.  Most people I know 
>use syntax colouring editors, after all.

Do we want to assume syntax coloring is the norm?  This will make a
difference in the readability of :( ):  I use IDLE for my Python
editor, and I love it, so maybe I'm just taking syntax coloring for
granted.

For the function def syntax, we should consider alternative forms,
depending on how much clarity or compactness we want.  Any of these
would be acceptable:

func1 = function( x, y ):
func1 = func( x, y ):
func1 = def( x, y ):
func1 = :( x, y ):
func1 = : x, y :
:x,y:

The last form would be used where we now have lambda x,y:

It seems like the choice of symbols and keywords here is a matter of
personal preference.  The only objective criteria I have is that the
short form should be as short as possible and reasonably close to the
normal form.  Verbosity is one of the reasons I don't use lambda.

>>-- Lambda keyword will be gone.  An anonymous function using normal
>>function syntax can be extremely compact. ( :x,y:x+y )
>>  
>>
>That particular example almost screams "don't do this", doesn't it?  
>:(x,y): x+y  I can see as an improvement, but yawn, really.  Making 
>function definitions expressions rather than statements would have the 
>same effect.  By the way, how do you know when your lambda is finished?  
>I gather the ()s are required if using as an expression?

It took me a long time to realize that lamdas have only one advantage
over named functions - they can be crammed into a tight space.  Here
is an example:

L = [(lambda x: x**2), (lambda x:x**3), (lambda x:x**4), (lambda
x:x**5)]

If the purpose is to save space, wouldn't this be better as:

L = [:x:x**2, :x:x**3, :x:x**4 :x:x**5]

I'm assuming the parens are optional.  Is there a parsing problem I'm
not seeing?  I would add parens simply because I like the appearance
of func1 = :( x, y ):

I would also be happy with just deprecating lambdas entirely.

>>-- Method definitions will be less cluttered and less typing with
>>__self__ as a hidden variable.
>>  
>>
>I personally prefer explicit to implicit, but I know there's lots of 
>people who are big into saving a few keystrokes.

See discussion above on explicitness.  I'm not seeing any advantage in
the explicitness of self.something over .something -- *provided* that
the leading dot is not used for any other purpose than an abbreviation
for __self__.

Keystrokes are not a big issue for me either, but in this case, where
we have such frequent use of the syntax, I can see where it would be
significant.

>>-- Changing numerous attributes of an instance will be more
>>convenient. ( need use case )
>>  
>>
>That's nice, but honestly, if you're doing a lot of this in cases 
>trivial enough to warrant the addition you should likely be refactoring 
>with a domain-modelling system anyway.  Still, if you modify the with to 
>work something like this:
>
>    with x:
>       .this = 32
>       .that = 43
>       temp = 'this'*repeat
>       .something = temp[:55]
>
>i.e. to just alter the implicit target of the block, not force all 
>variables to be assigned to the object, it seems a nice enough feature.

I'm not sure I understand your use of the leading dots above.  Do I
assume that .something gets attached to x, and temp is discarded when
the with block is finished?  This will conflict with the use of
leading dots as an abbreviation for __self__.  Why do we care about
temp variables here?  If it really matters, wouldn't it be easier to
just del x.temp when we are done?

>>Pro2:  Replace lambdas with standard function syntax.
>>
>>Con2:  ???
>>  
>>
>Fine, but no need to redefine the spelling for that save to make the 
>definition itself an expression that returns the function as a value and 
>allows one to drop the name.  i.e. a = def ( y,z ): y+z  would work just 
>as well if you could assign the result to a variable and figured out how 
>you wanted to handle the indentation-continuation thing to know when the 
>function ended.

The tradeoff is compactness vs preference for a keyword over a symbol.
I don't see any objective criteria, except that the lambda syntax
should be similar to the normal sytnax.

>>Explicit __self__
>>
>>Pro1:  Allows the unification of methods and functions.
>>
>>Con1:  ???
>>  
>>
>Is hidden (implicit) magic that requires the user to learn rules as to 
>what the target is when treating functions/methods as first-class 
>objects.  Not a big deal, really.
>
>>Pro2:  Explanation of instance variables is simpler.
>>
>>Con2:  Using __self__ instead of a special first argument is less
>>explicit.
>>  
>Um, can't say I see this as a huge pedagogical win.  A function either 
>takes an argument self and can set attributes of the object, or a 
>function has access to a magical "global" __self__ on which it can set 
>attributes.  I'll agree that it's nice having the same concept for 
>module and class variables, but seeing that as a huge win assumes, I 
>think, that those being taught are coming from a "globals and functions" 
>background rather than a structures and functions background.  One type 
>is accustomed to altering their execution environment, the other to 
>altering solely those things which are passed into the function as 
>parameters.

I am assuming no background at all other than Python up to the point
where we introduce OOP.  At that point, students will understand both
global variables and functions.  I measure simplicity by how much text
it takes to provide a basic explanation. See the samples at the end of
this post.

>>Pro3:  Less typing and less clutter in method definitions.
>>
>>Con3:  Can use "s" or "_" instead of "self" to minimize typing and
>>clutter.
>>  
>>
>That's a counter, not a con.  Similarly "Explicit is better than 
>Implicit" is only a counter, not a con.  A con would be: "presence of 
>variable of implicit origin" or "too much punctuation".  Don't think 
>either is a huge concern.
>
>>"Assignment" Syntax for Function Definitions
>>
>>Pro1:  See all the variables at a glance in one column.
>>
>>Con1:  ???
>>  
>>
>Doesn't seem a particularly strong pro.  IOW seems pretty minimal in 
>benefit.  As for a con, the eye, particularly in a syntax-colouring 
>editor picks out keywords very well, while punctuation tends to blur 
>into other punctuation.
>
>>Pro2:  Emphasize the similarity between data and functions as
>>attributes of an object.
>>
>>Con2:  ???
>>  
>>
>I see the pro, seems approx. the same to me.
>
>>With Block
>>
>>Pro:  Saves typing the object name on each line.
>>
>>Con:  Making it too easy to modify prototypes after they have been
>>created will lead to more undisciplined programming.
>>  
>>
>As specified, makes it only useful for trivial assignments.  If you're 
>going to all the trouble of introducing .x notation to save keystrokes, 
>why not simply have with alter __self__ for the block so you can still 
>distinguish between temporary and instance variables?

I'm using __self__ exclusively for the bind object in a method call.  

My biggest concern is not wanting to make leading dots the norm on
every variable assignment in a prototype definition.  If we are going
to highlight the instance variables, and say to students "This is the
key difference between what you already know (modules) and what you
are going to learn next (prototypes), then I don't want every other
variable in the prototype definition to look just like the instance
variables.

I've included the with blocks in my proposal to please the Prothon
folks, but unless someone can come up with a use case, they are not
worth the confusion they are causing.

>In the final analysis, this really seems like about 3 separate proposals:
>
>    * I like the .x notation's universal applicability, it does seem
>      simple and elegant from a certain point of view
>          o I don't like the implicit __self__, but that's an integral
>            part of the proposal, so a wash

If we can come up with an alternative that doesn't require multiple
function forms, I would like to consider it.

>          o I'd want clarification of how to store a reference to
>            another object's (bound) method (which is *extremely* common
>            in Python code for storing, e.g. callbacks)

bf = cat1.func  # where cat1 is an instance not a prototype.

>    * I really dislike the :( ): function definition notation,
>      "Readability Counts".  Why clutter the proposal with that?

It looks good to me, but I'm probably not the best judge of
aesthetics.  I'll collect some other opinions on this. If enough
people prefer  def ( ):  ( or def : for the lambda form), I'll change
the proposal.

Does it make a difference in your preference that the parens are
optional?  I would use them to enhnace readability on normal
functions, but leave them out on lambdas.

>    * I'm neutral on the with: stuff, I'd much prefer a real block
>      mechanism similar to Ruby with (if we're using implicit targets),
>      the ability to specify the .x target for the block

I've never understood the advantage of Ruby code blocks over Python
functions, but that is a separate discussion.

>So, the .x notation seems like it would be nice enough, but nothing else 
>really makes me jump up and down for it...
>
>That said, I'd probably be willing to use a language that was running on 
>the PythonVM with a parser/compiler that supported the syntax.  I'd be 
>totally uninterested in automated translation of Python code to the new 
>form.  That's the kind of thing that can be handled by running on the 
>same VM just as easily as anything else and you then avoid lots of 
>migration headaches.

I don't understand.  If you need to use modules written in Python 2,
you would need at least some kind of wrapper to make the calls look
like Python 3.  It seems like any changes that are not "backward
compatible" with Python 2 will need to be at least "migratable" from
earlier versions, using some automatic translator.  That is the major
constraint I have assumed in thinking about new syntax.  Is this not a
vital requirement?

>So, just as a marketing data-point; I'm not convinced that this is 
>markedly superior, but I'd be willing to try a language that differed 
>from Python in just the .x aspects to see whether it was worthwhile. 

Thanks again for your time and effort.

-- Dave

Explanation of Instance Variables in Python
===========================================
"""  Some of the variables inside the functions in a class have a
self. prefix.  This is to distinguish local variables in the function
from "instance variables".  These instance variables will be found
when the function is called, by searching the instance which called
the function.  The way this works is that calling the function from an
instance causes that instance to be passed as the first argument to
the function call.  So if you call cat1.talk(), that is equivalent to
Cat.talk(cat1) If you call cat1.set_vars( "Garfield", "Meow"), that is
equivalent to Cat.set_vars(cat1, "Garfield", "Meow")

The "current instance" argument is auto-magically inserted as the
first argument, ahead of any other arguments that you may provide in
calling a method that is "bound" to an instance.  Note: The
distinction between instances and classes is important here.  If you
call a function from a class, that function is not bound to any
instance, and you have to supply the instance explicitly in the first
argument ( Cat.talk(cat1) )

The variable name self is just a convention.  As long as you put the
same name in the first argument as in the body of the definition, it
can be self or s or even _   The single underscore is handy if you
want to maximally suppress clutter.  """

Explanation of Simplified Instance Variables
============================================
""" Some of the variables inside the functions in a prototype have a
leading dot.  This is to distinguish local variables in the function
from "instance variables".  When a function is called from an instance
( cat1.talk() ) a special global variable __self__ is automatically
assigned to that instance ( __self__ = cat1 )  Then when the function
needs an instance variable ( .sound ) it uses __self__ just as if you
had typed it in front of the dot ( __self__.sound )  The leading dot
is just an abbreviation to avoid typing __self__ everywhere.  """




From richie at entrian.com  Fri Apr 23 04:49:57 2004
From: richie at entrian.com (Richie Hindle)
Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2004 09:49:57 +0100
Subject: AOP use cases
In-Reply-To: <cb035744.0404220802.5adc5a5a@posting.google.com>
References: <84fc4588.0404140106.3fa0c55@posting.google.com>
	<slrnc7q1ss.1aa.alf@largo.fayauffre.org>
	<cb035744.0404141130.170f51c4@posting.google.com>
	<slrnc7sgat.vp.alf@largo.fayauffre.org>
	<cb035744.0404160442.2f0b1661@posting.google.com>
	<0pydnSB4WYuieuLdRVn-hQ@powergate.ca>
	<tyfbrlkv3ae.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
	<XYmdnVLB9rjbARrdRVn-vg@powergate.ca>
	<cb035744.0404220802.5adc5a5a@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <dolh805vhgo2dj6edh3bnas8doblvlvtj8@4ax.com>


[Will]
> It's all abstract chitchat [...] Forget about *real* real-world
> examples, these people just want to get papers published. [...]
> AOP is nothing more than what I expect from a decent programmer:
> a good, or at least reasonable, design of software in the first
> place.

This whole AOP discussion reminds me of this from the ever-relevant
Hitch-Hiker's Guide:

  Slowly, however, the implications of the idea began to be understood. To
  begin with it had been too stark, too crazy, too much what the man in the
  street would have said, 'Oh yes, I could have told you that,' about. Then
  some phrases like 'Interactive Subjectivity Frameworks' were invented, and
  everybody was able to relax and get on with it.

I'm happy to be a man in the street on this one.  Let the Java crowd invent
shiny new TLAs.

-- 
Richie Hindle
richie at entrian.com




From joe at notcharles.ca  Sat Apr 17 10:09:06 2004
From: joe at notcharles.ca (Joe Mason)
Date: Sat, 17 Apr 2004 14:09:06 GMT
Subject: AOP use cases
References: <84fc4588.0404140106.3fa0c55@posting.google.com>
	<slrnc7q1ss.1aa.alf@largo.fayauffre.org>
	<cb035744.0404141130.170f51c4@posting.google.com>
	<slrnc7sgat.vp.alf@largo.fayauffre.org>
	<cb035744.0404160442.2f0b1661@posting.google.com>
	<0pydnSB4WYuieuLdRVn-hQ@powergate.ca>
	<35qdnT4kNsX1kB3dRVn-gg@powergate.ca>
	<slrnc81i28.fm2.joe@gate.notcharles.ca>
	<AZ-dnUNqC9-oUh3dRVn-jw@powergate.ca>
Message-ID: <slrnc82ej1.gji.joe@gate.notcharles.ca>

In article <AZ-dnUNqC9-oUh3dRVn-jw at powergate.ca>, Peter Hansen wrote:
> Joe Mason wrote:
>> In article <35qdnT4kNsX1kB3dRVn-gg at powergate.ca>, Peter Hansen wrote:
>> 
>>>The logging example is okay, yes, but another problem I have
>>>with it is that it's very development-oriented.  It doesn't
>>>do anything directly for the user in terms of helping implement
>>>user functionality.  Same goes for the contract aspect, which
>> 
>> 
>> It does if generating usage reports is a user requirement.  Call logging
>> in a telephony app, for instance.
> 
> Sorry, but that doesn't fly.  That's a clearly separate function
> that should have a simple, single call somewhere in the application.

Not at all.  You'll want to log when calls start and end, when features
are turned on and off, when specific services (voice mail, call
forwarding) are accessed.  If your app is for a call center, you want to
log when people go on and off hold and when they enter specific service
queues.  Two years down the road a major customer will want to buy your
system, except they have incredibly specific requirements for report
generation which requires you to add even more entry points...

> The AOP logging example is talking about a "cross-cutting concern"
> (did I get that right?) where one wants to log *all method calls*
> in an object.  It's a developer tool, not something that you would
> use for call logging.

No, where one can dynamically decide which method calls to log.  The
point of "cross-cutting" is that you have the voice mail modules, and
the call forwarding module, and the service queue module, and they *all*
have to do logging.  The examples just add to all methods of an object
because it's an easy demonstration.

Joe


From peter at engcorp.com  Mon Apr 26 09:42:18 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2004 09:42:18 -0400
Subject: About generators
In-Reply-To: <peap80pkk0c5a7d9rliq159sbaof2mu5kr@4ax.com>
References: <peap80pkk0c5a7d9rliq159sbaof2mu5kr@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <L-6dnRq_ZvsmjBDdRVn_iw@powergate.ca>

Andrea Griffini wrote:

> I'm new to python and I really like what I've seen so far
> with just one exception; the absence of a nice syntax
> for ranges of integers. I've read PEPs about allowing
> 
>    for i in 10:
>      print i
> 
> and I must say I don't like it very much, but I didn't
> find a discussion about what looks more natural
> 
>    for i in 0...9:
>      print i
> 
> or
> 
>    squares = [x*x for x in 1...100]
> 
> that is having "expr1 ... expr2" returning an iterator
> from expr1 to expr2 (second limit included).
> 
> Has this been considered ? If yes (as I suppose) where
> can I find and explanation about it ? 

Google Groups is always helpful for such questions:

http://groups.google.com/groups?q=integer+range+syntax&meta=group%3Dcomp.lang.python.*

This leads to various threads, such as the "Re: Thoughts on PEP284"
which had the same proposal as yours and what is, I believe, an
adequate reason for rejecting it.

-Peter


From sp at sunguru.com  Tue Apr 13 09:25:14 2004
From: sp at sunguru.com (Stefan)
Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2004 13:25:14 GMT
Subject: [SOLVED] Re: compiling Python 2.3.3 Solaris 9 x86 question 
In-Reply-To: <mailman.571.1081845617.20120.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.571.1081845617.20120.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <_SRec.13840$g4.270682@news2.nokia.com>

More details: I found that using Sun's cc compiler will do the work 
without any problem. Make sure two things:


1. Make sure you are not using any libncurses library ...
For instance: SFWncur from companion CD

2. Install the 60day trial version of Sun's compiler or if you have 
already the Sun's compiler installed just use CC=cc instead of GCC.

Using this config it will do the trick. For some reasons
gcc and configure are not picking up the correct config !

regards,
stefan


> I had some python 2.3.3 build problems a while ago on a
> solaris 8 system. I ended up modifying setup.py to know about
> the "non-standard" paths where our stuff is installed, e.g. the
> detect_modules method:
> 
>    241      def detect_modules(self):
>    242          ### Ensure that /usr/local is always used
>    243          ##add_dir_to_list(self.compiler.library_dirs,
> '/usr/local/lib')
>    244          ##add_dir_to_list(self.compiler.include_dirs,
> '/usr/local/include')
>    245
>    246          # add_dir inserts as first list element, so /apps/prod
> should come last
>    247          add_dir_to_list(self.compiler.library_dirs,
> '/apps/local/lib')
>    248          add_dir_to_list(self.compiler.include_dirs,
> '/apps/local/include')
>    249          add_dir_to_list(self.compiler.library_dirs,
> '/apps/prod/lib')
>    250          add_dir_to_list(self.compiler.include_dirs,
> '/apps/prod/include')
>    251
>    252          # fink installs lots of goodies in /sw/... - make sure we
>    253          # check there
>    254          if sys.platform == "darwin":
>    255              add_dir_to_list(self.compiler.library_dirs, '/sw/lib')
>    256              add_dir_to_list(self.compiler.include_dirs,
> '/sw/include')
>    257
>    258          ##??? Why would I want to set -I and -L paths for the
> destination dir?
>    259          ## (sys.prefix == --prefix=<installation PREFIX dir, given
> to configure>
>    260          ##if os.path.normpath(sys.prefix) != '/usr':
>    261          ##    add_dir_to_list(self.compiler.library_dirs,
>    262          ##                    sysconfig.get_config_var("LIBDIR"))
>    263          ##    add_dir_to_list(self.compiler.include_dirs,
>    264          ##
> sysconfig.get_config_var("INCLUDEDIR"))
>    265
> 
> and also some runtime lib paths:
> 
>   667          # Curses support, requring the System V version of curses,
> often
>    668          # provided by the ncurses library.
>    669          if platform == 'sunos4':
>    670              inc_dirs += ['/usr/5include']
>    671              lib_dirs += ['/usr/5lib']
>    672
>    673          if (self.compiler.find_library_file(lib_dirs, 'ncurses')):
>    674              curses_libs = ['ncurses']
>    675              exts.append( Extension('_curses', ['_cursesmodule.c'],
>    676
> define_macros=[('HAVE_NCURSES_H', 1)],
>    677
> runtime_library_dirs=['/apps/prod/lib'],
>    678                                     libraries = curses_libs) )
> 
> Without the modifications, some of the extension modules (gdbm, curses,
> readline) would
> not build. Not exactly nice and portable, but I do not have the time right
> now.
> 
> 
>>Regarding this problem looks like 'configure' does not pickup
>>Solaris's curses library.
>>I had to manually pass to configure command libncurses library
>>
>>
>>LDFLAGS="-L/opt/sfw/lib -R/opt/sfw/lib -lncurses"
>>CPPFLAGS="-I/optsfw/include" ./configure --prefix=/usr/local
>>--with-threads --enable-shared
>>
> 
> 
> Does this work for you when you finally run setup.py?
> 
> 
>>Does this mean that python needs libncurses and can not work with
>>Solaris curses library !?
> 
> 
> I?m afraid I have no clues. Where does the Solaris curses reside?
> 
> Bye,



From sadplanet at MAPS.chello.be  Fri Apr 23 14:11:21 2004
From: sadplanet at MAPS.chello.be (mr.happy)
Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2004 18:11:21 GMT
Subject: walking a list
Message-ID: <pan.2004.04.23.18.10.31.541085@MAPS.chello.be>

Hi all,

I have this little question, basicly i solved it already by writing a
little bit of code for it (using recursion), but still i am wondering if
there is a shorter ways to do things (like 1 or 2 commands).

the problem is this, imagine i have a list:

list = [1, 2, [3, 2], 5, [6, 5, 4]]

if i print out this list using 'for element in list: print element,'
it will show me the following:

1
2
[3, 2]
5
[6, 5, 4]

but what i really want to show is:

1
2
3
2
5
6
5
4

What i want to do is run through the list and when i get back a list run
through that list as well (and if that list contains a list run through it
again etc.).

all suggestions are welcome, i'm ready to learn from the pro's ;)

-- 
One monk said to the other, "The fish has flopped out of the net! How will it
live?" The other said, "When you have gotten out of the net, I'll tell you."



From daniel.dittmar at sap.com  Thu Apr 15 09:09:36 2004
From: daniel.dittmar at sap.com (Daniel Dittmar)
Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2004 15:09:36 +0200
Subject: Why Activestate Python ?
References: <8089854e.0404090025.141f090c@posting.google.com>
	<1afv95dy6164y.1a9l3etptcw8w.dlg@40tude.net>
	<107sqv5o109su9f@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <c5m1ig$952$1@news1.wdf.sap-ag.de>

Cameron Laird wrote:
> after.  It's a fact, though, that some organizations (still!)
> only understand "commercial" products.  Developers and admini-

I suspect it's rather
- ActiveState wants to sell support for Python
- they only want to support specific releases and packages: those they built
and tested themselves

Daniel





From benjamin at araisoft.com  Mon Apr 26 11:57:51 2004
From: benjamin at araisoft.com (Benjamin Arai)
Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2004 08:57:51 -0700
Subject: Regular Expressions
In-Reply-To: <c6j3sc$br0hn$1@ID-111250.news.uni-berlin.de>
References: <c6j0ht$ed0$1@atlantis.news.tpi.pl>
	<c6j3sc$br0hn$1@ID-111250.news.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <1082995071.2101.17.camel@localhost.localdomain>

I would just use the re library because regular expressions will allow
you to get right down to the data on the first try anyways without
further parsing.  If you use the htmlparser library first it may cause
some unneeded processing time.

On Mon, 2004-04-26 at 06:38, Diez B. Roggisch wrote:

> > <FONT COLOR="#FF0000">A - TYPE1: any_text<BR>
> > B - TYPE2: any_text_2<BR>
> > C - TYPE2: any_text_3<BR>
> > w - any_text_15<BR>
> > </FONT>
> > html code
> > </BODY></HTML>
> > 
> > I need to have only following data:
> > (B, any_text_2)
> > (C, any_text_3)
> > that is, these data TYPE2 in which.
> 
> you should utilize the htmlparser class to extract the text first. Then this
> regular expression might help:
> 
> r"(.) TYPE. : (.*)"
> 
>  
> -- 
> Regards,
> 
> Diez B. Roggisch

Benjamin Arai
Araisoft

Email: benjamin at araisoft.com
Website: http://www.araisoft.com
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From mcarm at ssol.us  Sat Apr 10 13:21:16 2004
From: mcarm at ssol.us (Mike Carmichael)
Date: Sat, 10 Apr 2004 10:21:16 -0700
Subject: Configuring OpenOffice 680 for Tkinter
Message-ID: <40782D0C.3020301@ssol.us>

Hello,

I'm trying to port some simple tkinter python windows to open office's 
python (just downloaded the latest 680 release).

It appears that the required files are there, but I get an error -- 
'import _tkinter # If this fails your Python may not be configured for 
Tk'.  How does one configure OO for tkinter?

Appreciate any help!

Thanks,
Mike


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From daniel.dittmar at sap.com  Thu Apr 22 08:59:17 2004
From: daniel.dittmar at sap.com (Daniel Dittmar)
Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2004 14:59:17 +0200
Subject: AOP use cases
References: <84fc4588.0404140106.3fa0c55@posting.google.com>
	<slrnc7q1ss.1aa.alf@largo.fayauffre.org>
	<cb035744.0404141130.170f51c4@posting.google.com>
	<slrnc7sgat.vp.alf@largo.fayauffre.org>
	<cb035744.0404160442.2f0b1661@posting.google.com>
	<0pydnSB4WYuieuLdRVn-hQ@powergate.ca>
	<tyfbrlkv3ae.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
	<XYmdnVLB9rjbARrdRVn-vg@powergate.ca>
	<tyf7jw8utoo.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
Message-ID: <c68fj5$7bt$1@news1.wdf.sap-ag.de>

Jacek Generowicz wrote:
>>>           SEPARATION OF CONCERNS. [snip]

C moved the I/O from the language to a library. This is separation of
concerns, but I wouldn't call it AOP.

My idea of AOP vs. OOP is about hooks or variation points: ways to customize
existing code.

OOP added two kinds of variation points: interfaces and calls of virtual
methods (yes, the two are closely related). When I have a method a, I can
- self.b (): add a call to a virtual method b of self: the behaviour of
method a can be changed by implementing a subclass and overriding b
- x.c (): add a call to a virtual method c of variable x: the behaviour of
method a can be changed by passing a different kind of x into the method

Both of these hooks must be provided be the implementor of a, he/she must
add calls self.b () and x.c ().

AOP tries to add hooks that are provided by the structure of the program so
that the programmer doesn't have to add them by hand:
- method entry and exit
- creation of objects
- calls to methods
- module import
- ...

Those of you using XML might want to visualize the program as a DOM tree and
AOP as applying a XSLT stylesheet. (Now visualize applying several different
stylesheets in arbitrary order)

This works probably best if each short rule matches many individual hooks.
This is why the logging example is so compelling. If many rules match only
one individual hook, then you have 'mincemeat of concerns'.

Daniel





From R.Byrom at rl.ac.uk  Fri Apr 16 08:56:24 2004
From: R.Byrom at rl.ac.uk (Byrom, R (Rob) )
Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2004 13:56:24 +0100
Subject: Catching console output interactively
Message-ID: <A5AF6F04CF7FD311BC5700902773DDC701F65FD5@exchange13.rl.ac.uk>


hi,

I'd like to be able to trap console output as the user writes interactively.
For example if the user press the up or down keys I'd like to be able to
catch this and return the last executed command (a bit like the bash_history
idea). Can anyone point me in the right direction?

thanks for any help,

Rob



From skip at pobox.com  Tue Apr 20 14:54:40 2004
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 13:54:40 -0500
Subject: emacs for OS X
In-Reply-To: <1gcjrc7.1s60i39g5q0kiN%fabio.trezziCANCELLAMI@email.it>
References: <See_my-BB1217.02175320042004@news.verizon.net>
	<1gcjrc7.1s60i39g5q0kiN%fabio.trezziCANCELLAMI@email.it>
Message-ID: <16517.29168.404126.276470@montanaro.dyndns.org>


    Wezzy> Download python-mode from python.org:
    Wezzy>  http://www.python.org/emacs/python-mode/python-mode.el

Ancient, ancient, ancient!

Pop up a level to 

    http://www.python.org/emacs/python-mode/

and you'll read:

    The current release of python-mode.el is no longer maintained on this
    website. Check the python-mode project on Sourceforge instead.

The version you referred to (which I don't think is any longer linked to
from the website) is 4.6.  The current version is 4.54.

Skip



From peter at engcorp.com  Thu Apr 22 11:42:38 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2004 11:42:38 -0400
Subject: Convert hexadecimal string to binary
In-Reply-To: <b0457a31.0404220706.65a7735c@posting.google.com>
References: <b0457a31.0404220706.65a7735c@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <JNGdnUL8JZZyehrd4p2dnA@powergate.ca>

Eric wrote:

> I have the following hexadecimal string - '\xff\xff\xff' which i need
> to convert to binary.
> 
> How would i go about doing this?

You'll need to explain more clearly, and possibly change how you
view such things, before anyone can help you with certainty.

What you show above is a *binary* sequence of bytes containing
three bytes, each with the value 255.  The representation of
it which you copied (?) from the console contains printable
characters and extra stuff to make it easier to read, but that's
what you get from repr() on a binary string.

Do you actually want a string containing the six printable
characters 'FFFFFF'?  If that's the case, it's not what you
would usually call "binary".  Anyway, use binascii.hexlify()
for that...

Can you give an example of the output you really want?  How
many bytes does it contain?  How does it differ from the string
above?

-Peter


From peter at engcorp.com  Wed Apr 28 09:15:02 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Wed, 28 Apr 2004 09:15:02 -0400
Subject: String formatting (%)
In-Reply-To: <e567c03a.0404280035.79d0d973@posting.google.com>
References: <e567c03a.0404280035.79d0d973@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <gcGdnd7hn7_LMxLd4p2dnA@powergate.ca>

Pascal wrote:

> Hello,
> I've a float number 123456789.01 and, I'de like to format it like this
> "123 456 789.01".
> Is this possible with % character?

No, as shown by http://docs.python.org/lib/typesseq-strings.html
but you could probably use the 'locale' module instead.

I suspect there's also a regular expression that could deal with
that, but I don't want to know what it is. ;-)

-Peter


From gotcha_fza at yahoo.com  Sun Apr 11 07:04:27 2004
From: gotcha_fza at yahoo.com (gotcha_fza)
Date: Sun, 11 Apr 2004 11:04:27 -0000
Subject: solaris install of python
Message-ID: <c5b8nr+t2jj@eGroups.com>

hi

has anyone installed pythong on solaris 8 before, i am getting erors 
when i do a ./configure any ideas why ?

regards

testbed# ./configure 
checking MACHDEP... sunos5
checking EXTRAPLATDIR... 
checking for --without-gcc... no
checking for --with-cxx=<compiler>... no
checking for c++... c++
checking for C++ compiler default output... a.out
checking whether the C++ compiler works... configure: error: cannot 
run C++ compiled programs.
If you meant to cross compile, use `--host'.
See `config.log' for more details.

testbed# which c++
/usr/local/bin/c++
testbed # tail config.log 
## ----------- ##

#define _GNU_SOURCE 1
#define _NETBSD_SOURCE 1
#define _POSIX_C_SOURCE 200112L
#define _XOPEN_SOURCE 600
#define _XOPEN_SOURCE_EXTENDED 1
#define __BSD_VISIBLE 1

configure: exit 1




From peter at engcorp.com  Fri Apr  9 11:08:58 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Fri, 09 Apr 2004 11:08:58 -0400
Subject: Wrapper round x86 Assembler
In-Reply-To: <8089854e.0404082353.7bf163a2@posting.google.com>
References: <8089854e.0404082353.7bf163a2@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <4dKdnQlIXMIXIevdRVn-gg@powergate.ca>

Fuzzyman wrote:

> There might be a really good reason why this hasn't been done *or*
> someone might have done it and I just can't find it..... *but*
> 
> what about a wrapper to an assembler (presumably for x86 assembly !)
> !!
> I just wrote some code doing binary operations which would have been
> about a zillion times faster in a few lines of assembly code.

I refer you to "Pyrex"...

-Peter


From no at spam.pls  Wed Apr  7 08:17:56 2004
From: no at spam.pls (Matthias)
Date: 07 Apr 2004 14:17:56 +0200
Subject: OFF-TOPIC:: Why Lisp is not my favorite programming language
References: <165b3efa.0403030443.4d591f04@posting.google.com>
	<40460dd5$0$5916$7a628cd7@news.club-internet.fr>
	<d771b842.0403040735.3b5200ae@posting.google.com>
	<e87fc4b0.0403221114.254b7ee5@posting.google.com>
	<d771b842.0404061258.655b8e56@posting.google.com>
	<6in670lrldbjkuujle68a526293j57a7mn@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <36w1xn0j823.fsf@hundertwasser.ti.uni-mannheim.de>

Stephen Horne <steve at ninereeds.fsnet.co.uk> writes:

> On 6 Apr 2004 13:58:45 -0700, nish20 at netzero.net (Mike Nishizawa)
> wrote:
> 
> >mintiSPAMBLOCK at yahoo.com (Minti) wrote in message news:<e87fc4b0.0403221114.254b7ee5 at posting.google.com>...
> 
> >> However when some one says that the code might be 31.?
> >> times slower as compared to C, kinda of scares me. Could assert such
> >> figures. I know speed is not the one and only goal but just wondering
> >> if these figures are correct.
> 
> It wouldn't surprise me. LISP is normally interpreted - maybe always,
> though I'm not certain of that. The interpreter would be written in C.
> And, depending on the implementation, the built-in list operations may
> well be much more basic than those in Python, for instance, meaning
> that more of the relatively sophisticated operations will be handled
> using interpreted library code.

Sounds reasonable, but is almost completely false:

1.) Lisp is normally compiled.  (Almost every Common Lisp
  implementation compiles to native code, as do many Scheme
  implementations.)

2.) The built-in list operations are at least as sophisticated as Pythons.
  (Common Lisp's are more sophisticated.)

3.) Lisp is normally much faster than Python and comes "close" to C
  (depends on how much you care to optimize your Lisp code). See
  http://www.norvig.com/python-lisp.html (the colorful table at the
  bottom of the page) for some data.




From goodger at python.org  Mon Apr 12 18:33:34 2004
From: goodger at python.org (David Goodger)
Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2004 18:33:34 -0400
Subject: OO Bug needs squashing
In-Reply-To: <35f7b657.0404121341.6acb8a52@posting.google.com>
References: <35f7b657.0404121341.6acb8a52@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <407B193E.8010401@python.org>

nick wrote:
 > Ok I'm more than willing to admit it's probably me but I am
 > struggling with what appears to be a weird scope issue.
 >
 > If you look at the code below I believe day 2 should only contain a
 > single event. But when you run the prog it prints the events from
 > day 1 as well.
 >
 > Any advice greatly appreciated.

First, don't use hard tabs.  The standard is to use 4 spaces per
indent level.

 > class Day:
 >     name = None
 >     events = []
 >     eventD = {}

These are class attributes.  They're shared by all instances of
that class.  "events" and "eventD" are mutable, which means that
they can change.

Instead, move events and eventD into an initializer method:

       def __init__(self):
           self.events = []
           self.eventD = {}

You should also use the __init__ method to populate the object:

       def __init__(self, name):
           self.events = []
           self.eventD = {}
           self.name = name

 > class Event:
 >     start = ''
 >     end = ''
 >     desc = ''

       def __init__(self, start, end, desc):
           self.start = start
           self.end = end
           self.desc = desc

 > def loadMonth():
 >     #Create Day one
 >     day1 = Day()
 >     day1.name = 'day1'

Instead of the last 2 lines, use:

       day1 = Day('day1')

 >     #Create first event for day one
 >     event1 = Event()
 >     event1.start = '10:00'
 >     event1.end = '12:00'
 >     event1.desc = 'event1'

Instead of the last 4 lines, use:

       event1 = Event('10:00', '12:00', 'event1')

 >     day1.events.append(event1)

That should be a method instead:

       day1.add_event(event1)

The method would look like this (add under "class Day"):

       def add_event(self, event):
           self.events.append(event)

That way, if you choose to change the implementation of
the events storage later, it will be easy.

And so on.  I suggest you look at these pages:

* Python Tutorial: http://www.python.org/doc/current/tut/
* the FAQ: http://www.python.org/doc/faq/ (especially question 4.21 of
   http://www.python.org/doc/faq/general.html, which directly answers
   your original question)
* lots more links here: http://www.python.org/topics/learn/

-- David Goodger




From klappnase at web.de  Fri Apr 23 10:48:15 2004
From: klappnase at web.de (klappnase)
Date: 23 Apr 2004 07:48:15 -0700
Subject: tkinter: window always over the rest
References: <c6akde$4u5$2@sofora02.uji.es>
Message-ID: <a7a67196.0404230648.43e678b1@posting.google.com>

Vicente Palaz?n Gonz?lez <vpalazon at terra.es> wrote in message news:<c6akde$4u5$2 at sofora02.uji.es>...
> Hi,
> 
> I'm programming an application with Tkinter on a Linux platform and
> I want to keep always a window over the rest of the windows of my 
> application, even if it loses its focus, any idea?


You could use the Toplevel window?s transient() method:

root = Tk()
t = Toplevel(root)
t.transient(root)
root.mainloop()

I hope this helps

Michael


From insert at spam.here  Tue Apr 27 14:12:54 2004
From: insert at spam.here (Doug Holton)
Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2004 13:12:54 -0500
Subject: Tkinter vs. wxPython?
In-Reply-To: <408E9DCA.EC753FE6@shaw.ca>
References: <408E9DCA.EC753FE6@shaw.ca>
Message-ID: <hLOdnf0DJ4o7PxPd4p2dnA@comcast.com>

SeeBelow at SeeBelow.Nut wrote:

> Do many people think that wxPython should replace Tkinter?  Is this
> likely to happen?
> 
> I ask because I have just started learning Tkinter, and I wonder if I
> should abandon it in favor of wxPython.  

Could you share a little more info, like are you new to GUI programming, 
what platform do you develop on (windows, mac, linux), and what features 
do you need for your application.

If you this is your first time using a GUI toolkit I'd recommend 
sticking with Tkinter.  It is simpler to use and there is much more and 
better documentation since it has been a standard part of Python for a 
long time.

But myself I use wxPython because it has more features.


From me at privacy.net  Thu Apr  8 04:32:02 2004
From: me at privacy.net (Duncan Booth)
Date: 8 Apr 2004 08:32:02 GMT
Subject: Are line continuations needed?
References: <mailman.418.1081348606.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<1078dq6i93pc12d@news.supernews.com>
	<1078skqn9hgdd19@corp.supernews.com>
	<1079015hfg56i28@news.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <Xns94C5601A46236duncanrcpcouk@127.0.0.1>

"John Roth" <newsgroups at jhrothjr.com> wrote in
news:1079015hfg56i28 at news.supernews.com: 

>> Without the backslash continuation, you're forced to write multiline
> strings
>> with the first line indented differently from the rest of the lines:
>>
>> mystring = """first line
>> second line
>> third line"""
>>
>> Yuck.
>>
>> Backslash continuation fixes this, as David showed:
>>
>> mystring = """\
>> first line
>> second line
>> third line"""
>>
>> Maybe there will be some other way to do clean multiline strings in
>> Python 3.0?
> 
> Since you aparently used tab indentation, your examples came
> through with no indentation, so I can't tell what you're talking
> about. 

I think that you might find there wasn't any indentation to lose. Read the 
point more carefully and you might see he has a valid concern. Consider 
this (none of the lines are indented):

mystring = """\
+---------------+
|    '"         |
+---------------+
"""

Without a line continuation there simply isn't any way to write this string 
and still have the box characters line up neatly.



From steve at ninereeds.fsnet.co.uk  Tue Apr  6 10:45:33 2004
From: steve at ninereeds.fsnet.co.uk (Stephen Horne)
Date: Tue, 06 Apr 2004 15:45:33 +0100
Subject: How to do [1]*4 for a tuple
References: <mailman.375.1081213535.20120.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <a9g5709ha5kutfqfnk2r4p2k8819t17aqd@4ax.com>

On Mon, 5 Apr 2004 21:05:34 -0400, "Vineet Jain" <vineet at eswap.com>
wrote:

>I'm not sure I understand why [1]*4 and (1)*4 work differently? [1]*4
>results in [1, 1, 1, 1] while (1)*4 results in 4. There are times when I
>have to do the following:
>
>'%s some value %s and some other text %s' % (a)*3
>
>as apposed to
>
>'%s some value %s and some other text %s' % (a, a, a)
>
>In this case I always end up doing
>
>'%s some value %s and some other text %s' % [a]*3

You have the answer to your question already, but you may be better
off using a dictionary with the % operator to get named association...

>>> a={'a':'aaa'}
>>> print '%(a)s some value %(a)s and some other text %(a)s' % a
aaa some value aaa and some other text aaa

This works particularly well when not all substituted strings are the
same, and when you may want to change format strings in such a way
that the substitutions may not be in the same order, or may not all be
used, etc. In other words, it can be very useful when the format
strings are supplied externally.

It can be handy when the support guys want to decide the wording of
error messages (and change their minds every other day) for instance.


-- 
Steve Horne

steve at ninereeds dot fsnet dot co dot uk


From peter at engcorp.com  Sat Apr 24 22:17:08 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Sat, 24 Apr 2004 22:17:08 -0400
Subject: command-line args
In-Reply-To: <108lqn9mdimaq1a@corp.supernews.com>
References: <mailman.5.1082827225.27400.python-list@python.org>
	<108lqn9mdimaq1a@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <_YqdnbORcfQ4ghbd4p2dnA@powergate.ca>

Cameron Laird wrote:

> You seem to have given Michael everything he needed.  I don't
> get it, though.  Why must "some code that needs to know the
> timeout" import globals?  In what context would it not already
> be present?

We're on different wavelengths, obviously, because I don't
even understand your question.  Let's try to find the source of
the misunderstanding.  Here's my take on it:

Assuming we're both accepting that the "timeout" value is stored
only in a module called globals, and in Python a module is not
available in another module unless there is a prior "import"
statement importing the required module, it seems to me that
code in another module which needs to use "timeout" *must*
do an "import globals" first.

Having written that, I'm guessing you are thinking about only
one module, where "import globals" occurred at the top, and
the arg parsing code then executed, and then later on some
other code in the same module needed to get to "timeout".
In that case clearly "it would already be present".

-Peter


From anand at easi.soft.net  Thu Apr 22 02:38:19 2004
From: anand at easi.soft.net (Anand K Rayudu)
Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2004 12:08:19 +0530
Subject: COM & Python
References: <mailman.752.1082375155.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<l4CdnSThFfKwRB7dRVn-gw@comcast.com>
Message-ID: <4087685B.6040403@easi.soft.net>

Hi Larry,

Thanks for the suggestion, I have gone through the book, but 
unfortunately nothing much is discussed about this topic.
Being new to MFC i am finding it difficult to get started.
I want to just create a dialog box, with my own controls and get the 
python call backs for them.
 can some one please share some example source code or any experience 
regarding this.
Any help will be a great start point for me.

Regards,
Anand


Larry Bates wrote:

>Get a copy of
>Python Programming on Win32 By Mark Hammond, Andy Robinson
>
>This is the best starting point for you.
>
>Larry Bates
>Syscon, Inc.
>
>"Anand K Rayudu" <anand at easi.soft.net> wrote in message
>news:mailman.752.1082375155.20120.python-list at python.org...
>  
>
>>Hi all,
>>
>>I want to use python with COM extension. I am successful using python as
>>client.
>>I could interact to my application through COM interfaces from python.
>>
>>I also want to use the win32ui layer, which wrapped all MFC user
>>interface functionality.
>>I am just wondering if some on can guide me with some documentation on
>>using them.
>>I want to know how the call backs are handled in particular.
>>Any sample code will be a great start for me.
>>If this is possible I can create any dialog boxes with any controls from
>>python itself!! :-)
>>And take advantage of MFC's View , scroll view and so on. Just exciting!!
>>
>>Thanks in advance,
>>Anand
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>    
>>
>
>
>  
>

-------------- next part --------------
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From peter at engcorp.com  Sun Apr  4 22:45:19 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Sun, 04 Apr 2004 22:45:19 -0400
Subject: Module import problems
In-Reply-To: <30260531.0404041725.746befa0@posting.google.com>
References: <30260531.0404041725.746befa0@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <DJWdnQdYSrHdVe3dRVn-tw@powergate.ca>

simo wrote:

> I'm having trouble accessing the imported classes though.
> 
> For example I have login.py which contains something like this:
> 
> class login(wx.Dialog):
...
> 
> Then main.py contains something like this:
> 
> import login
> 
> class MyApp(wx.App):
>     """define main wx app class"""
>     def OnInit(self):
>         login_frame = login()
> 
> The problem is, that when I run main.py, I cannot seem to import login
> as a class - I keep getting 'module' object not callable.
> 
> I tried login.login() to not call the module, but the class of the
> module, but that doesn't work either, I get 'module' object has no
> attribute 'login'. I thought login.login() would look for the def
> 'login' not the class anyway?

login.login(), based on the precise code that you showed, appears
to be the correct thing.  I'm not actually trying to understand
how your code works, mind you, just looking at it syntactically.

If that's giving you the error you say it is, something else is
amiss.  Do you "shadow" the "login" that comes from the import
statement with a function somewhere, or a method, in the class
MyApp, which you didn't show?  You should be able to use the
interactive prompt to "import login" and "login.login" without
getting any kind of "no attribute" error.  If you can do that,
clearly the problem is in the MyApp module.  Otherwise you've
got something wrong with login.py after all.

-Peter


From corey.coughlin at attbi.com  Wed Apr 14 18:35:27 2004
From: corey.coughlin at attbi.com (Corey Coughlin)
Date: 14 Apr 2004 15:35:27 -0700
Subject: Python for PocketPC (Dell Axim - XScale processor)
References: <b62b39cb.0404140919.25bbd97e@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <a8623416.0404141435.366e12f2@posting.google.com>

Hey, I have one of those too.  If you find a version, let me know.  Thanks!


chrisl_ak at hotmail.com (Chris) wrote in message news:<b62b39cb.0404140919.25bbd97e at posting.google.com>...
> Is there a version of Python that will run on the PocketPC platform?
> Specifically I have an Axim X5 with Xscale processor...


From skip at pobox.com  Fri Apr 16 12:22:21 2004
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2004 11:22:21 -0500
Subject: Goodbye TCL
In-Reply-To: <f82c8ae7.0404160731.7473b61f@posting.google.com>
References: <0LudnSads6NmpuPdRVn-vw@centurytel.net>
	<f82c8ae7.0404151057.67333d4e@posting.google.com>
	<107u6ef5a2ise19@news.supernews.com>
	<f82c8ae7.0404160731.7473b61f@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <16512.2109.190244.452464@montanaro.dyndns.org>


    Stephen> I would be curious to know what is the biggest-capacity Python
    Stephen> network application in use?  How does it scale in comparison
    Stephen> with AOLServer?  Any ideas?

Off the top of my head I have no concrete examples, but you might want to
skim these pages:

    http://www.twistedmatrix.com/services/success
    http://pythonology.org/success
    http://www.python-in-business.org/success/
    http://www.python.org/Quotes.html
    http://www.zope.org/Resources/ZopePowered/

I believe people find solutions using the twisted framework scale very well.

There's obviously some significant overlap between those pages (Google, ILM
and NASA pop up multiple times), and clearly not all of them are using
Python to develop large-scale websites but there are lots of interesting
entries in a number of fields.

the-whole-world-isn't-yet-a-website-ly, y'rs,

Skip



From siggy2 at supereva.it  Thu Apr  8 07:05:35 2004
From: siggy2 at supereva.it (PiErre)
Date: 8 Apr 2004 04:05:35 -0700
Subject: win32all 162 installation error [dr watson]
References: <33a15593.0404020204.688b85df@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <33a15593.0404080305.1aa59382@posting.google.com>

siggy2 at supereva.it (PiErre) wrote in message news:<33a15593.0404020204.688b85df at posting.google.com>...
> Hi All,
>    I am trying to install win32 extension 162 on python 2.2.3 on...
[CUT]
I found the solution... I was looking for a new version of win32all
and I did not realize it has been renamed into pywin32
I apologize...

bye,
   PiErre


From fumanchu at amor.org  Wed Apr 21 13:13:15 2004
From: fumanchu at amor.org (Robert Brewer)
Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2004 10:13:15 -0700
Subject: Stupid Regex Question
Message-ID: <DE1CF2B4FEC4A342BF62B6B2B334601E562034@opus.amorhq.net>

Jonas Galvez wrote:
> > [Fredrik Lundh]
> > print re.findall("<tag>(.*?)</tag>", str)
>
> But now I'm puzzled. What is that '?' doing, exactly?
> 
> Could you point me any references?

http://docs.python.org/lib/re-syntax.html

*?, +?, ?? 
The "*", "+", and "?" qualifiers are all greedy; they match as much text
as possible. Sometimes this behaviour isn't desired; if the RE <.*> is
matched against '<H1>title</H1>', it will match the entire string, and
not just '<H1>'. Adding "?" after the qualifier makes it perform the
match in non-greedy or minimal fashion; as few characters as possible
will be matched. Using .*? in the previous expression will match only
'<H1>'.


FuManChu

P.S. Top-posting may get you flayed alive by some around here.



From shalabh at cafepy.com  Fri Apr  9 20:52:35 2004
From: shalabh at cafepy.com (Shalabh Chaturvedi)
Date: Fri, 09 Apr 2004 17:52:35 -0700
Subject: Parsing cmd line args problem
References: <1081555827.877735@jubilee.esoterica.pt>
Message-ID: <c57gbq$rfp$1@sea.gmane.org>

Paulo da Silva wrote:

> Hi.
> 
> I am writing my 1st. python program and I have the following problem:
> 
> I need to build a list of lists (or tuples) for every -i option.
> Example:
> prog -i xxx -i yyy
> and get a list like [[xxx,1],[yyy,1]]
> 
> I have tried this (callback) without any success:

<example snipped>

> 
> 
> Any help please?
> Thanks

It might be easier to just collect all values for the option in one list and
later sort, count or do whatever with it. I believe there is an action in
optparse to append values.

--
Shalabh




From andymac at bullseye.apana.org.au  Wed Apr  7 19:04:52 2004
From: andymac at bullseye.apana.org.au (Andrew MacIntyre)
Date: Thu, 8 Apr 2004 09:04:52 +1000 (EST)
Subject: Using python23 to develop an extension for an application that
 has python22 embedded
In-Reply-To: <10787tl9fmth0cd@corp.supernews.com>
References: <aoa370h2r58lgb00jn9o1nfpg2titdgoss@4ax.com><1073eeubflmchd5@corp.supernews.com><o2g3709fpgp50sn561h0vf5e2dd6hcuo7g@4ax.com>
	<mailman.390.1081257203.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<10787tl9fmth0cd@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <20040408084936.Q8581@bullseye.apana.org.au>

On Wed, 7 Apr 2004, Michael Geary wrote:

> Andrew MacIntyre wrote:
> > You can then use another compiler supported by the
> > Distutils (MS CL non-optimising compiler, MinGW,
> > Borland etc) to build the distributable extension in
> > either a Python 2.2 or 2.3 installation, without risking
> > mixing C runtime library mismatches (VS.NET uses a
> > different CRT than VS6 I understand).  If using a 2.3
> > installation, you'll need to substitute a 2.2 import
> > library when building the final distributable version.
>
> Do I understand you correctly? It sounds like you are saying there is a
> problem using a DLL built with VC6 and another DLL built with VS.NET in the
> same application, but if you were to use a Borland or other compiler, then
> you would avoid this problem.

No, I was referring to the fact that VS.NET links DLLs to a different C
runtime than VS6.  Borland may indeed not achieve what I suggested; I have
never used it in conjunction with Python.  MinGW links by default to the
same MSVCRT.DLL as VS6's DLLs (at least the versions I've used do).

While mixing C runtime libraries may appear to work for some cases, it
doesn't for other cases - file handles/streams and memory allocation are
frequent causes of contention (frequently segfaults).  I'm aware that
you're a much more seasoned Win32 developer than I so expect you have a
clearer picture about this; but this is my experience.

I have come across an instance where some code produced by an older
version of gcc (2.8.1) was the source of a segfault when linked to a body
of code produced by a much later version (3.2.1), though it was fine if
the rest of the code was also produced by the same version, or a somewhat
newer version (2.95).  A royal PITA that was; had to rebuild the
problematic library (at least I could get the source).

--
Andrew I MacIntyre                     "These thoughts are mine alone..."
E-mail: andymac at bullseye.apana.org.au  (pref) | Snail: PO Box 370
        andymac at pcug.org.au             (alt) |        Belconnen  ACT  2616
Web:    http://www.andymac.org/               |        Australia



From tim.one at comcast.net  Fri Apr 23 15:46:18 2004
From: tim.one at comcast.net (Tim Peters)
Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2004 15:46:18 -0400
Subject: Multi-threaded printing and IOErrors in Windows
In-Reply-To: <uekqey0c8.fsf@fitlinxx.com>
Message-ID: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCKEJPKHAB.tim.one@comcast.net>

[David Bolen]
> ...
> If that were the case, doing some test prints in your code of very
> long strings (the C buffer is probably anywhere from 2-8K) should
> be able to reproduce the problem more reliably.

stderr and stdout both "blow up" eventually on Windows is they're not
attached to something usable.  Here's a little Python program:

"""
import sys
i = 0
while 1:
    sys.stdout.write('x')
    i += 1
    f = open('count.txt', 'w')
    print >> f, 'wrote', i, 'bytes'
    f.flush()
    f.close()
"""

If I run that from a console with pythonw.exe, it soon dies, and count.txt
is left containing "wrote 4096 bytes".  Same thing if I use sys.stderr.




From solution88pro at hotmail.com  Sun Apr 11 19:52:57 2004
From: solution88pro at hotmail.com (Senthoorkumaran Punniamoorthy)
Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2004 05:52:57 +0600
Subject: Logging Framework and Method printing
Message-ID: <BAY8-F106YNrPXpdt7q000158b2@hotmail.com>

I was wondering when using Java's logging framework or Log4J whenever there 
is a log statement it prints the Method in which the log statement is being 
used. However in python this doesn't seems to be happening by default and 
seems like we have to specifically print this using

inspect.getouterframes(inspect.currentframe())[1][3]

Is there anyway by default I can enable the logging to print the method too?

Senthoor

_________________________________________________________________
Add photos to your messages with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. 
http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail




From seb_haase at yahoo.com  Sat Apr 17 20:59:01 2004
From: seb_haase at yahoo.com (Sebastian Haase)
Date: 17 Apr 2004 17:59:01 -0700
Subject: campaining for PEP 238 - integer division
Message-ID: <f445a2fe.0404171659.60992eff@posting.google.com>

Hi,
I'm interested in having more people in our lab using numarray/NumPy
instead of MatLab. For that I have put together a couple useful
modules and written many myself. But then I got reminded of a new /
upcoming feature of Python:
"2/3 == 1.5"  AKA PEP 238.
I'm very interested in putting lots of
"from __future__ import division"
lines into my code especially since numarray (the new NumPy) now
supports it.

QUESTION: Is this new/upcoming feature of Python mentioned enough ?
Like in the Python tutorial  or mailing lists ...
A google groups search for "python 238 integer OR division"  was 
giving me one relevant result from Jan2004, another one from May2003,
all else even older !!!

I think people need to be reminded that PEP238 is really happening 
and especially new people should be pointed to this --
The fact is that changing something as fundamental as the division
operator WILL BRAKE LOTS OF CODE !! I'm just thinking of all the 
'a[n/2]' expressions I have in my code.

PROPOSAL: This is why I would like to see some special treatment for
PEP 238. If the division operator is going to change this should be
noted right in the first chapter of the Python tutorial (Python as
calculator). Remind all python developers that they will have to
change their code. (Actually: is there an easy 'fix' like "from
__past__ import division" ?)

Cheers,
Sebastian Haase


From dustin at myaddress.net  Wed Apr 21 17:41:47 2004
From: dustin at myaddress.net (Dustin)
Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2004 21:41:47 GMT
Subject: Python editors for Windows question
References: <D6Ahc.2737911$iA2.315963@news.easynews.com>
Message-ID: <vUBhc.2744103$iA2.316352@news.easynews.com>

Thank you everyone. I will test out the various editors! :-)

"Dustin" <dustin at myaddress.net> wrote in message
news:D6Ahc.2737911$iA2.315963 at news.easynews.com...
> Hello,
>
> I just started programming in Python last night, and I've really enjoyed
my
> experience so far. I would like to know if there is a Windows editor that
> recognizes Python and will support a module syntax/definition lists For
> instance, let's say that I set form = cgi and then when I hit the period
> (".") on the keyboard, a list of objects shows up, such as FieldStorage(),
> etc.. Any suggestions are appreciated. Thank you!
>
> Dustin
>
>




From jcarlson at uci.edu  Sat Apr 10 15:21:43 2004
From: jcarlson at uci.edu (Josiah Carlson)
Date: Sat, 10 Apr 2004 12:21:43 -0700
Subject: wxListCtrl with CheckBox?
In-Reply-To: <30260531.0404092256.6b58e3a1@posting.google.com>
References: <30260531.0404092256.6b58e3a1@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <c59hmk$gru$2@news.service.uci.edu>

> I've got a report list and want to have a checkbox in the last column
> of each row.

Use wx.Grid, it can place checkboxes in cells.

  - Josiah


From rob02omni at vodafone.it  Wed Apr 21 04:45:53 2004
From: rob02omni at vodafone.it (Roberto)
Date: 21 Apr 2004 01:45:53 -0700
Subject: Getting output from embedded python program
References: <2aa196bb.0404190554.74631058@posting.google.com>	<4084B179.6020807@magma-da.com>	<c63i77$kfq$1@balena.cs.interbusiness.it>
	<mailman.810.1082487073.20120.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <ecdb9ec3.0404210045.797552df@posting.google.com>

Hi Jeff,
Thanks for the reply!

> PyRun_File expects dicts for both the third and fourth parameters.

I've looked in python manuals but i've missed out this, thanks for
pointing me in the right direction.

I will try with dicts and post result later.

Thanks Again,
Roberto


Jeff Epler <jepler at unpythonic.net> wrote in message news:<mailman.810.1082487073.20120.python-list at python.org>...
> PyRun_File expects dicts for both the third and fourth parameters.
> The code you wrote appears to use one module object and one dict object,
> but in the (incomplete, non-runnable) code you included, you didn't even
> initialize evalModule/evalDict until after the PyRun_File call, nor did
> you check for failures along the way.
> 
> Jeff


From cookedm+news at physics.mcmaster.ca  Tue Apr 13 16:55:41 2004
From: cookedm+news at physics.mcmaster.ca (David M. Cooke)
Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2004 16:55:41 -0400
Subject: Reommended compiler toolkit
References: <c5g8uu$aak$1@news2.netvision.net.il>
Message-ID: <qnkbrlv1tte.fsf@arbutus.physics.mcmaster.ca>

At some point, Miki Tebeka <miki.tebeka at zoran.com> wrote:

> Hello All,
>
> I'm looking for a pure python compiler toolkit (lexer + parser, like
> flex + bison).

> ply (which I like most)
> SPARK
> Yapps
> kwParsing

[don't know about these]

> Plex

This is just a lexer. You'll have to write your own parser. Pyrex uses
it, along with a hand-written recursive-descent parser. Although it
shouldn't be too hard to plug the lexer from this into one of the
other packages to do parsing.

> PyLR
> FlexModule

These two aren't pure python. PyLR has a C extension, and looks like
it hasn't been updated since 1997. FlexModule uses flex to make a
lexer, and also works with BisonModule (which uses bison) to make the parser.

I'm guessing for speed FlexModule is probably the fastest, but does
anybody have any experience with benchmarking different Python lexer/parsers?

-- 
|>|\/|<
/--------------------------------------------------------------------------\
|David M. Cooke
|cookedm(at)physics(dot)mcmaster(dot)ca


From wilkSPAM at OUTflibuste.net  Fri Apr 16 09:38:53 2004
From: wilkSPAM at OUTflibuste.net (Wilk)
Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2004 15:38:53 +0200
Subject: CamelCase versus wide_names (Prothon)
References: <UHxfc.9323$dZ1.3740@fed1read04> <87hdvl2dny.fsf@blakie.riol>
	<c5mr6h$jkn$1@atlantis.news.tpi.pl> <87d6692ar8.fsf@blakie.riol>
	<mailman.674.1082103786.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<FCNfc.25592$zf6.94057@news4.e.nsc.no> <87wu4gjkwb.fsf@blakie.riol>
	<mailman.677.1082110403.20120.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <87hdvkjb4i.fsf@blakie.riol>

Hugh Macdonald <hugh-m at moving-picture.com> writes:

> On Fri, 16 Apr 2004 12:07:48 +0200
> Wilk <wilkSPAM at OUTflibuste.net> wrote:
>
>> Why not - instead of _ ?
>> 
>> def my-function()
>> 
>> it doesn't need shift on azerty and qwerty isn'it ?
>> 
>> and we already use it in natural langage...
>
> So what happens in the following code:
>
> data = 23
> my = 2
> my-data = 56
> value = 3
>
> new-value = my-data-value
>
> Or would it insist on:
>
> new-value = my-data - value
> or
> new-value = my - data - value
>
>
> I think having a character available for names that is also used elsewhere as an operator is a VeryBadThing(TM) (or should that be veryBadThing or very_bad_thing?)....

maybe it's possible to replace - by "minus" ?
I joke ! you're right, i keep wide_name

-- 
Wilk - http://flibuste.net


From tim.one at comcast.net  Sun Apr  4 20:47:53 2004
From: tim.one at comcast.net (Tim Peters)
Date: Sun, 4 Apr 2004 20:47:53 -0400
Subject: doctest
In-Reply-To: <isgkg8qq.fsf@python.net>
Message-ID: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCAEECKAAB.tim.one@comcast.net>

[Thomas Heller, on a doctest "pretty printer"]

...

> The ctypes tutorial contains (among others) code examples like this:
>
>       >>> from ctypes import *
>       >>> windll.kernel32
>       <WinDLL 'kernel32', handle 77e80000 at 7ecfe8>
>       >>> cdll.msvcrt
>       <CDLL 'msvcrt', handle 78000000 at 80b010>
>
> This may not be the best documentation, but it shows what the
> programmer sees when he experiments with ctypes at the command
> prompt.  Neither the repr string nor the type of the result is
> particularly interesting...

Then maybe, to the extent that the output isn't interesting, it does indeed
not make for good docs.

....
> I used the script above to make sure that the code examples in the
> ctypes tutorial are correct (they weren't).  And it seems doctest is a
> fantastic way to show that.
>
> Of course it's easy to skim the output manually and see that the
> following failure is a minor detail:
> """
> *****************************************************************
> Failure in example: print windll.kernel32
> from line #30 of tutorial.stx
> Expected: <WinDLL 'kernel32', handle 77e80000 at 7ecfe8>
> Got: <WinDLL 'kernel32', handle 77e40000 at 995d00>
> """
>
> OTOH, it would make more efficient testing if no error would be
> reported ;-)  How will the doctest pretty printer handle things like
> these?

Trying to *guess* what is and isn't important in a chunk of output is
something doctest has always avoided to date.  As I said last time,

    but it's a tradeoff:  doctest strove to be 100% WYSIWYG,
    and the "doc" part of "doctest" does suffer when that fails.

> Will it skip sections like these ' at xxx>', where xxx is a
> hex number?

I don't think so, but it may do "something like that" if a more precise
definition of "sections like these" can be formulated.

For a start, Python puts a leading 0x before the address in such reprs:

>>> C
<class __main__.C at 0x006A5450>
>>> C()
<__main__.C instance at 0x006AC0D0>
>>>

so the weakest I'd be inclined to entertain is substituting away a match of
the regexp

    r' at 0[xX][\da-fA-F]+>'

That wouldn't hide the varying addresses attached to your "handle" output,
though.




From ville at spammers.com  Thu Apr  1 00:48:09 2004
From: ville at spammers.com (Ville Vainio)
Date: 01 Apr 2004 08:48:09 +0300
Subject: Python vs Perl (an example)
References: <mailman.209.1078904745.19534.python-list@python.org>
	<nkrm609egoa94m49caplu8013vvs8o1g39@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <du71xn8p7ty.fsf@lehtori.cc.tut.fi>

>>>>> "Nick" == Nick Monyatovsky <mon-at-cox-net> writes:

    Nick> 2. There are many things which are very easy to do in Perl, and
    Nick> are very cumbersome in Python. Regular expressions is a
    Nick> vivid example. Saying very generically that Python is easier
    Nick> than Perl is just an invitation for flame wars.

Saying very generically that Python regexps are more cumbersome than
Perl one is just an invitation for flame wars. I have heard that
statement quite often, yet nobody ever bothers to substantiate it.

Hint - you can do

s = re.sub
m = re.match

if the function names are too long for you. And you don't need to
re.compile the regexps beforehand, just pass them as strings to the
functions. And backslash escaping behaviour can be averted by r"raw
strings".

The actual regexp syntax is the same as w/ Perl. I guess that's why
they are often called 'perl-style' regexps.

    Nick> If you'd like to demonstrate that Python is easier than
    Nick> Perl, you'll need to find a better case.

This is c.l.py - I don't think there are many who would claim the
opposite. Actually, I think Python and Perl are so far apart in the
ease of use/complexity/elegance, it's not even funny.

I'll give some comments on the script anyway.

    Nick> my @files;
    Nick> my $count = 0;
    Nick> my $total = 0;

In Python there's no need for 'my' - every assignment makes the
variable local by default. This is a Good Thing, and I doubt you would
contest that.

    Nick> sub retPrevFile 
    Nick> {
    Nick> my $index = shift;

In Py, you just list the arguments in signature.

    Nick> mkdir "$dirName/$slideName" or die;

This idiom is not necessary in Py. You just don't handle errors, the
program terminates w/ traceback automatically.

    Nick> open FILE , ">$file.htm";
    Nick> printf FILE $format, $title, $title, $file, $count + 1, $total,

Here's a clear inconsistency (FILE doesn't have $, others do). Things
like this make a language hard to understand. In Py you just have
objects.

-- 
Ville Vainio   http://tinyurl.com/2prnb


From aku at europe.com  Mon Apr  5 11:02:02 2004
From: aku at europe.com (aku)
Date: 05 Apr 2004 15:02:02 GMT
Subject: design by contract versus doctest
Message-ID: <407174ea$0$5066$4d4ebb8e@news.nl.uu.net>

There seems to be a contradictive approach in 
these two things. Example: In the doctest documentation
(http://www.python.org/doc/current/lib/module-doctest.html)
a required precondition (i.e. n is an integer and >= 0)
is verified in the function itself:

if not n >= 0:
        raise ValueError("n must be >= 0")

But in "design by contract" this responsibility is squarely 
on the shoulders  of the caller, and is *not* checked in
the function.

I'm confused as to what the "best" approach is.

Isn't it so, that by applying DBC, a lot of unittests can be
made redundant?

shan.




From martin at v.loewis.de  Tue Apr 13 18:06:34 2004
From: martin at v.loewis.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?=22Martin_v=2E_L=F6wis=22?=)
Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2004 00:06:34 +0200
Subject: refcounting
In-Reply-To: <407c25ca$1@newsflash.abo.fi>
References: <407c25ca$1@newsflash.abo.fi>
Message-ID: <c5ho92$89a$06$1@news.t-online.com>

Simon Dahlbacka wrote:

> I'm a little confused about the reference counting..
> 
> static PyObject* MyFunction(PyObject * /*self*/, PyObject *args) {
> 
> PyObject *list;
> PyArg_ParseTuple(args, &PyList_Type, &list);
> 
> //do stuff with list elements
> 
> // XXX do I need Py_INCREF(list); here ???
> return list;

Yes. PyArg_ParseTuple returns a borrowed reference to the list; the
reference is originally help by the argument tuple (which is immutable,
so the reference is guaranteed to stay while you hold on to the argument
tuple, which is only decrefed in the caller of MyFunction).

The result must be a new reference, so you must incref.

> PS. are there any documentation explaining the reference counting issues in
> more detail than the docs @ python.org ?

No. For the specific issue, the documentation says it all:

http://docs.python.org/api/arg-parsing.html

says

"O" (object) [PyObject *] ... The object's reference count is not increased.

http://docs.python.org/api/common-structs.html#l2h-821

says

PyCFunction ... The function must return a new reference.

HTH,
Martin



From buzzard at urubu.freeserve.co.uk  Sun Apr  4 09:39:42 2004
From: buzzard at urubu.freeserve.co.uk (Duncan Smith)
Date: Sun, 4 Apr 2004 14:39:42 +0100
Subject: Siginificant figures calculating zprob
References: <9405c70f.0404031852.155d17d5@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <c4p34l$ubt$1@newsg4.svr.pol.co.uk>


"Sarah Wang" <sarah_wang23 at hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:9405c70f.0404031852.155d17d5 at posting.google.com...
> Hello everyone!
>
> I want to calculate zprob(the area under the normal curve)
> with python and I managed to find a function from the
> internet.
>
> But the problem is that the function calculates the result
> with only a few significant figures. If I want to get the
> 20th number of the result(z-prob) what should I do?

Why would you need this degree of precision?

I want
> to get the confidence level of "6sigma" and all I get at the
> moment is "1".
>

How about posting the code?  Check out Gary Strangman's stats.py
http://www.nmr.mgh.harvard.edu/Neural_Systems_Group/gary/python.html

Duncan




From python at rcn.com  Fri Apr  9 04:24:58 2004
From: python at rcn.com (Raymond Hettinger)
Date: 9 Apr 2004 01:24:58 -0700
Subject: Compact Python library for math statistics
References: <E1B9LoV-0005OQ-00@fatlady.ukr.net>
	<mailman.267.1080904644.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<3064b51d.0404061038.4d69fd89@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <5d83790c.0404090024.5cefb2ea@posting.google.com>

> A statistics module will
> be nice to have, although it is easy to write your own.
> 
> Here is a minor suggestion. The functions 'mean' and 'variance' are
> separate, and the latter function requires a mean to be calculated. To
> save CPU time, it would be nice to have a single function that returns
> both the mean and variance, or a function to compute the variance with
> a known mean.

Like you said, that is easy enough to write on your own.  This
lightweight module is not meant to replace heavy-weights that already
exist outside of the core distribution.

The goals are to have a simple set of functions for daily use and for
these data reduction functions to work as well as possible with
generator expression (one-pass over the data whereever possibe).



> (1) In computing the median, there is a line of code
> 
>     return (select(data, n//2) + select(data, n//2-1)) / 2
> 
> I think finding the 500th and 501st elements separately out of a 1000
> element array is inefficient. Isn't there a way to get consecutive
> ordered elements in about the same time needed to get a single
> element?

Select uses an O(n) algorithm, so they penalty is not that much. 
Making it accomodate selecting a range would greatly complicate and
slow down the code.  If you need the low, high, percentiles, then it
may be better to just sort the data.



> (2) The following code crashes when median(x) is computed. Why?
> 
> from statistics import mean,median
> x = [1.0,2.0,3.0,4.0]
> print mean(x)
> print median(x)

Hmm, it works for me.  What does your traceback look like?



> (3) The standard deviation is computed as 
> 
>     return variance(data, sample) ** 0.5
> 
> I think the sqrt function should be used instead -- this may be
> implemented more efficiently than general exponentiation.

The timings show otherwise:

C:\pydev>python timeit.py -r9 -n100000 -s "import math;
sqrt=math.sqrt" "sqrt(7.0)"
100000 loops, best of 9: 1.7 usec per loop

C:\pydev>python timeit.py -r9 -n100000 -s "7.0 ** 0.5"
100000 loops, best of 9: 0.237 usec per loop



Raymond Hettinger


From python at rcn.com  Mon Apr  5 04:43:31 2004
From: python at rcn.com (Raymond Hettinger)
Date: Mon, 5 Apr 2004 04:43:31 -0400
Subject: Python is faster than C
In-Reply-To: <40711761.5090702@prescod.net>
Message-ID: <001c01c41aea$19647560$e841fea9@oemcomputer>

> > P.S.  If some experimentation shows your code to be useful at the
> > interactive prompt, please submit a patch on SF so it won't be lost.

[Paul Prescod]
> Why put this behaviour in the interactive prompt rather than in
repr()?

Like the suppression of None, this behavior is only useful for
interactive sessions.

Also, I don't see how to implement this for repr() since it has to
replace the original object with a chain object or tee object.


Raymond Hettinger


#################################################################
#################################################################
#################################################################
#####
#####
#####
#################################################################
#################################################################
#################################################################



From peter.maas at mplusr.de  Fri Apr  2 07:25:51 2004
From: peter.maas at mplusr.de (Peter Maas)
Date: Fri, 02 Apr 2004 14:25:51 +0200
Subject: Python conference slogan
In-Reply-To: <406D57FF.4040601@mplusr.de>
References: <mailman.189.1080759511.20120.python-list@python.org>	<kmjsj1-89u.ln1@snout.lairds.org>	<c4glmq$j1i$1@swifty.westend.com>	<30260531.0404010833.1b834032@posting.google.com>	<406C4DDF.5000907@zope.com>
	<mailman.259.1080890435.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<c4jj1i$f6g$1@swifty.westend.com> <406D57FF.4040601@mplusr.de>
Message-ID: <c4jm1k$hs1$1@swifty.westend.com>

Peter Maas wrote:
> - Unleash your brain with Python.

- Unchain your brain with Python.
   [stolen from Joe Cockers 'Unchain my heart']

- Unbrace yourself with Python.

- Python - think without braces

That's all. Now I'm going to do something useful. :)

Mit freundlichen Gruessen,

Peter Maas

-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Peter Maas, M+R Infosysteme, D-52070 Aachen, Hubert-Wienen-Str. 24
Tel +49-241-93878-0 Fax +49-241-93878-20 eMail peter.maas at mplusr.de
-------------------------------------------------------------------


From gabriel.cooper at mediapulse.com  Tue Apr 27 14:14:11 2004
From: gabriel.cooper at mediapulse.com (Gabriel Cooper)
Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2004 14:14:11 -0400
Subject: linux-python arrow-key problem when in interactive interpreter
Message-ID: <408EA2F3.3010009@mediapulse.com>

I'm running redhat 9 with python 2.3.3 and when I'm in gnome-terminal 
and inside the python interpreter I can't use the arrow keys anymore. 
They simply show ^[[A, ^[[B, etc.

It doesn't appear to be gnome-terminal's settings as XTerm has the same 
problem. If just at the command prompt they work fine, I'm able to hit 
up/down/left/right and see previous/next shell commands or move around 
to fix typos on the current line... however once I enter the python 
interpreter it stops working.

I have found no options in gnome-terminal for switching anything I would 
recognize as useful, such as to "VT100" or anything like that. The only 
remotely similar setting was a character encoding of UTF-8 (unicode) and 
that didn't seem applicable so I left it alone.

Technically this is probably a linux question not a python question but 
since it only (to my knowledge) happens in the python interpreter I 
thought you guys might know what I've done wrong.

Gabriel.



From mike at nospam.com  Fri Apr  9 14:34:35 2004
From: mike at nospam.com (Mike Rovner)
Date: Fri, 9 Apr 2004 11:34:35 -0700
Subject: Debugging extensions under VS .NET 2003
References: <c42b7031.0404090827.177bec2@posting.google.com>
	<107dn91j2908rce@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <c56qbq$rbh$1@sea.gmane.org>

Michael Geary wrote:
> Gus Tabares wrote:
>> If you want to be able to debug your extensions, you will
>> [need] to build a debug version of the Python interpreter.
>
> I'm very curious about this: Can anyone explain why it is necessary?
> (And is it *really* necessary?)

That is completly unnecessary. If you want to debug python interpretor
itself
or suspect that your code isn't working as you want due to python behaivour
only than you may want to do that.

Mike






From me at privacy.net  Wed Apr 21 06:46:30 2004
From: me at privacy.net (Heather Coppersmith)
Date: 21 Apr 2004 06:46:30 -0400
Subject: md5.hexdigest() converting unicode string to ascii
References: <77b925de.0404161337.3917ef56@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.727.1082181832.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<77b925de.0404201516.7941cd83@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <m2zn957gmx.fsf@unique.phony.fqdn>

On 20 Apr 2004 16:16:33 -0700,
mgibson at tripwire.com (uebertester) wrote:

> I've attempted the suggested solution specifying different
> encodings, however, the hash value that is returned does not
> match what I expect based upon another utility I'm checking
> against.  Hash value returned by python specifying utf16
> encoding: 731f46dd88cb3a67a4ee1392aa84c6f4 .  Hash value
> returned by other utility:  0b0ebc769e2b89cf61a10a72d5a11dda .
> Note:  I've tried other encoding also.  As the utility I'm
> verifying against is extensively used, I'm assuming it is
> returning the correct value.  I appreciate any help in resolving
> this as I'm trying to enhance an automated test suite written in
> python.

Other things that may bite or may have bitten you:

    o the byte order marker or lack thereof
    o different newline conventions
    o trailing newlines or lack thereof
    o don't forget that there are two utf16 encodings, big endian
        and little endian

Adding to what Peter indicated, the source (code and/or persons)
of your extensively used utility may also contain specific test
vectors.

Regards,
Heather

-- 
Heather Coppersmith
That's not right; that's not even wrong. -- Wolfgang Pauli


From roman.yakovenko at actimize.com  Wed Apr 14 01:35:11 2004
From: roman.yakovenko at actimize.com (Roman Yakovenko)
Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2004 08:35:11 +0300
Subject: Unable to create com object - need help
Message-ID: <2D89F6C4A80FA547BF5D5B8FDDD04523060C60@exchange.adrembi.com>

	Hi. I need some help. 
Here is my situation. It is a little bit difficult to explain and/or understand.
I'd like to use msdia71.dll. This dll gives you access to program database files
created during a build. I register this dll. This is pure com dll. 
This dll contains 3 top classes. I'd like to create one of them - DiaSource. 
This class implements IDiaDataSource interface. This fact I can see in dia2.idl. 

 importlib("stdole2.tlb");
    [
        uuid(e60afbee-502d-46ae-858f-8272a09bd707),
        helpstring("DiaSource Class")
    ]
    coclass DiaSource
    {
        [default] interface IDiaDataSource;
    };

after using makepy I get 

class DiaSource(CoClassBaseClass): # A CoClass
	# DiaSource Class
	CLSID = IID('{E60AFBEE-502D-46AE-858F-8272A09BD707}')
	coclass_sources = [
	]
	coclass_interfaces = [
	]
If I understand right DiaSource doesn't implements IDiaDataSource interface at all. 
May be this is a bug, may be I don't understand something. Clarifying this point will be great.

There is an other thing,  that I don't understand. I can create an instance of this class
in VisualBasic 6.0 . (I added a reference to this dll into project).

One more thing: I find out that if I use low level api of "pythoncom" module I can create instance
of DiaSource class that the only interface it implements is IUnknown. Here I need small hint - 
what can I do with this instance? More specifiec how can I get the desired interface.
( QueryInterface does not work in this case. see makepy section of this latter )
Or how can I call functions ?

I am sorry for such long posting. Also thank you very much for help.

Roman




From Mike at DeleteThis.Geary.com  Mon Apr 26 12:34:08 2004
From: Mike at DeleteThis.Geary.com (Michael Geary)
Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2004 09:34:08 -0700
Subject: Why we will use obj$func() often
References: <d2Uhc.22272$dZ1.1600@fed1read04> <84Uhc.22278$dZ1.5087@fed1read04>
	<mailman.927.1082665370.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<8AWhc.23114$dZ1.11070@fed1read04> <40883BFE.B381518A@alcyone.com>
	<27_hc.23801$dZ1.2716@fed1read04> <40887145.789A2FE8@alcyone.com>
	<7cki80hj976bia36lhf9er97v073o1pqvm@4ax.com>
	<w8dic.28710$dZ1.11206@fed1read04> <ulXiAls/KH1K089yn@the-wire.com>
	<lkfic.29767$dZ1.17301@fed1read04>
	<donn-66132E.15345723042004@nntp3.u.washington.edu>
	<PLhic.30493$dZ1.22063@fed1read04> <1082783076.585831@yasure>
	<Tunic.32387$dZ1.12932@fed1read04>
	<c6hvdk$bs63j$1@ID-169208.news.uni-berlin.de>
	<SN%ic.37580$dZ1.14964@fed1read04>
Message-ID: <108qeg1lkm5hq8d@corp.supernews.com>

> Greg Ewing wrote:
> > Hang on a minute. Do you literally mean the immediately
> > surrounding function, and not one further out? In
> >
> >    def f():
> >      def g():
> >        def h():
> >          &x = 42
> >        h()
> >      g()
> >      print x
> >
> > does the &x in h refer to the x in f? If it does, then I
> > don't see how you can deduce that in a single pass. If it
> > doesn't, then how do you refer to the x in f from h?

Mark Hahn wrote:
> You cannot.  Yes it literally means the immediately surrounding
> function. In your example, I can't think of any scheme we've
> discussed that accesses x in function f.  Python surely cannot.
>
> I understand this is quite limiting, but it's simple. As always,
> I'm open to suggestions...

Ouch. The way I use nested functions in JavaScript, it's essential to be
able to use names from higher in the scope chain without worrying about how
far up the chain they are.

It's not P*thonic, but JavaScript's solution for this keeps looking better
to me. When you want a local name, you create it with 'var'. When you refer
to a name, it always starts in the current scope and works its way up the
chain until it finds the name.

As with many things, there's a cost and a benefit. The cost is that you
always have to 'var' your local variables. The benefit is that nested
functions and closures become very clean and simple.

-Mike




From eppstein at ics.uci.edu  Mon Apr  5 16:37:34 2004
From: eppstein at ics.uci.edu (David Eppstein)
Date: Mon, 05 Apr 2004 13:37:34 -0700
Subject: An attempt at guessing the encoding of a (non-unicode) string
References: <c1sq60t7af0lgs1ovilg6ds220dkc0inpd@4ax.com>
	<eppstein-8C467F.14490702042004@news.service.uci.edu>
	<6pa270h031thgleo4a31itktb95n9e4rvm@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <eppstein-B02D89.13373405042004@news.service.uci.edu>

In article <6pa270h031thgleo4a31itktb95n9e4rvm at 4ax.com>,
 Christos "TZOTZIOY" Georgiou <tzot at sil-tec.gr> wrote:

> >I've been getting decent results by a much simpler approach:
> >count the number of characters for which the encoding produces a symbol 
> >c for which c.isalpha() or c.isspace(), subtract a large penalty if 
> >using the encoding leads to UnicodeDecodeError, and take the encoding 
> >with the largest count.
> 
> Somebody (by email only so far) has suggested that spambayes could be
> used to the task... perhaps they're right, however this is not as simple
> and independent a solution I would like to deliver.
> 
> I would believe that your idea of a score is a good one; I feel that the
> key should be two-char combinations, but I'll have to compare the
> success rate of both one-char and two-char keys.
> 
> I'll try to search for "representative" texts on the web for as many
> encodings as I can; any pointers, links from non-english speakers would
> be welcome in the thread.

BTW, if you're going to implement the single-char version, at least for 
encodings that translate one byte -> one unicode position (e.g., not 
utf8), and your texts are large enough, it will be faster to precompute 
a table of byte frequencies in the text and then compute the score by 
summing the frequencies of alphabetic bytes.

-- 
David Eppstein                      http://www.ics.uci.edu/~eppstein/
Univ. of California, Irvine, School of Information & Computer Science


From kier at sdf1.net  Mon Apr 12 12:56:21 2004
From: kier at sdf1.net (Ray Slakinski)
Date: 12 Apr 2004 09:56:21 -0700
Subject: Parsing string array for differences
Message-ID: <7598e160.0404120856.217bc8d5@posting.google.com>

My below code doesn't do what I need it to do.  What I want is to
capture the differences between two arrays of data into a new list. 
So if list A has {Fred, Bob, Jim} and List B has {Jim, George, Fred} I
want to capture in list C just {Fred, Jim}

y = 0        
z = 0
data = {}
for element in listB:                
   x = 0                
   for element in listA:                        
      if listA[x] != listB[y]:                                
         listC[z] = listB[y]
         z = z + 1                      
      x = x +1                
y = y + 1

Any and all help would be /greatly/ appreciated!

Ray


From joe at notcharles.ca  Sat Apr  3 17:33:22 2004
From: joe at notcharles.ca (Joe Mason)
Date: Sat, 03 Apr 2004 22:33:22 GMT
Subject: Python is faster than C
References: <406F0907.96F37EA1@tunes.org>
Message-ID: <slrnc6ud7b.4u7.joe@gate.notcharles.ca>

In article <406F0907.96F37EA1 at tunes.org>, Armin Rigo wrote:
> The reason that Psyco manages to outperform the C implementation is not
> that gcc is a bad compiler (it is about 10 times better than Psyco's).
> The reason is that the C implementation must use a generic '<' operator
> to compare elements, while the Psyco version quickly figures out that it
> can expect to find ints in the list; it still has to check this
> assumption, but this is cheap and then the comparison is done with a
> single machine instruction.

Why can't the C implementation do the same thing?

Joe


From nmkolev at uni-bonn.de  Mon Apr 26 12:51:32 2004
From: nmkolev at uni-bonn.de (Nickolay Kolev)
Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2004 18:51:32 +0200
Subject: Zip with sequences of diffrent length
Message-ID: <c6jelh$13e6$1@f1node01.rhrz.uni-bonn.de>

Hi all,

I want to make tuples of the elements of a list like this.

l = [1, 2, 3]

Wanted tuples:

(1, 2)
(2, 3)
(3, None)

I can get the first two tuples using zip(l, l[1:]). How do I get the 
last one?

Many thanks in advance,
Nicky


From mlh at furu.idi.ntnu.no  Fri Apr 23 18:57:37 2004
From: mlh at furu.idi.ntnu.no (Magnus Lie Hetland)
Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2004 22:57:37 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Atox 0.5 released
Message-ID: <slrnc8j7r1.s9i.mlh@furu.idi.ntnu.no>



What is it?
===========

Atox is a framework for automated markup. With it one can quite easily
write custom scripts for converting plain text into XML in any way one
wishes. Atox is normally used as a command-line script, using a simple
XML language to specify the desired transformation from text to
markup, but it is also possible to build custom parsers using the Atox
library. The name (short for ASCII-to-XML) is inspired by such UNIX
tools and system functions as atops and atoi.


What can it do?
===============

With Atox you can write quite general parser that create XML from
plain text files, using a special-purpose format language somewhat
reminiscent of XSLT. You can also include XSLT fragments in your
format description, to use transformations in concert with the Atox
markup process.

The examples in the distribution demonstrate how you can use Atox to:

  - Mark up a (relatively simple) technical document (the Atox
    manual);

  - Mark up code blocks only through indentation;

  - Nest lists through indentation
  
  - Discern between different indentation "shapes" (e.g. a block quote
    versus a description list item);

  - Transform simple LaTeX into XML;

  - Add XML "syntax highlighting" to Python code;

  - Mark up screenplays or stageplays, largely based on indentation;

  - Mark up simple fictional prose;

  - Mark up simple tables.


What's new in 0.5?
==================

These are the changes I've made:

  - Fixed some bugs.

  - Added support for XSLT fragments in Atox format files.

  - Added support for non-greedy repetition.

  - Added several new options to the configuration system. Split input
    and output encoding and made UTF-8 the default output encoding.


Where can I get it?
===================

Atox is hosted at SourceForge (http://atox.sf.net) and the current
release (0.5) is available for download via its project page
(http://sf.net/projects/atox).


The Small Print
===============

Atox is released under the MIT license. It comes with no warranty of
any kind. Also, even though the current version works well, and the
project is currently (as per early 2004) being actively developed,
there is no guarantee of continued support. What you see is what you
get.

-- 
Magnus Lie Hetland              "Wake up!"  - Rage Against The Machine
http://hetland.org              "Shut up!"  - Linkin Park


From drs at remove-to-send-mail-ecpsoftware.com  Thu Apr 22 16:16:12 2004
From: drs at remove-to-send-mail-ecpsoftware.com (drs)
Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2004 20:16:12 GMT
Subject: how to configure apache with mod_python?
References: <mailman.917.1082645951.20120.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <gKVhc.275$X14.221@twister.nyroc.rr.com>

"Gustavo Rahal" <listas at grahal.net> wrote in message
news:mailman.917.1082645951.20120.python-list at python.org...
> Hi
>
> I just started with mod_python but i can't make it work. I tried to test
> the following
> http://www.modpython.org/live/current/doc-html/inst-testing.html
> but apache still interpretats the mptest.py as plain text.
> I'm using fedora 1, apache 2.0.48, mod_python 3.0.4

Have you rebooted/restarted Apache?  If so, you need to post the relevant
parts of your httpd.conf file (and your .htaccess file if it exists).

-d




From greg at cosc.canterbury.ac.nz  Wed Apr 21 03:37:59 2004
From: greg at cosc.canterbury.ac.nz (greg)
Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2004 19:37:59 +1200
Subject: Python CPU? (Re: Python OS)
References: <mailman.709.1082146405.20120.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <408624D7.9010105@cosc.canterbury.ac.nz>

David LeBlanc wrote:
> There's a project on sourceforge to develop a Lua microprocessor. Don't know
> how active it is, but it could suggest some ideas.

Do you have a URL for this? I tried using SourceForge's
search function, but couldn't find anything that looked
like this. I'm not sure whether this is because it no
longer exists, or because SourceForge's search feature
sucks.

Greg



From bokr at oz.net  Tue Apr 27 16:00:38 2004
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 27 Apr 2004 20:00:38 GMT
Subject: Why we will use obj$func() often
References: <d2Uhc.22272$dZ1.1600@fed1read04> <84Uhc.22278$dZ1.5087@fed1read04>
	<mailman.927.1082665370.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<8AWhc.23114$dZ1.11070@fed1read04> <40883BFE.B381518A@alcyone.com>
	<27_hc.23801$dZ1.2716@fed1read04> <40887145.789A2FE8@alcyone.com>
	<7cki80hj976bia36lhf9er97v073o1pqvm@4ax.com>
	<w8dic.28710$dZ1.11206@fed1read04> <ulXiAls/KH1K089yn@the-wire.com>
	<lkfic.29767$dZ1.17301@fed1read04>
	<donn-66132E.15345723042004@nntp3.u.washington.edu>
	<PLhic.30493$dZ1.22063@fed1read04>
	<c6huj3$c3s3f$1@ID-169208.news.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <c6me56$tgm$0@216.39.172.122>

On Mon, 26 Apr 2004 15:10:22 +1200, Greg Ewing <greg at cosc.canterbury.ac.nz> wrote:

>Mark Hahn wrote:
>> The whole point is to make things simpler, more readable, and more
>> efficient, but when people see the & symbol they somehow automatically think
>> it's complex.
>
>The feature itself might not be complex, but it's
>unfamiliar, since it's not quite like anything in any
>other language they're likely to be familiar with.
>So it makes learning the language a more complex
>exercise, since it's one more new thing to learn.
>
>It's also something that will be quite rarely used,
>and is totally non-suggestive of its meaning, so I
>expect people will be looking it up in the manual a
>lot before it finally gets internalised.
>
>On the other hand, replacing it with a keyword such
>as "outer" would make it highly suggestive, to the
>point where I'd wager most people wouldn't have to
>look it up at all.
>
>This is a big advantage that words have over
>punctuation -- you have much more scope for choosing
>one that means something to people.
>

The word "locals" already exists. If it returned a namespace
object instead of a dict proxy when given a nesting-level arg, we
could write

     def f():
         x = 123
         locals(0).x = 123 # synonym
         print x   # 123
         def g():
             x = 456
             print x  # 456
             print locals(1).x  # 123
             locals(1).x = 789
             locals(2).x = 101112
         print x  # 123
         g()	# 456 then 123
         print x  # 789
         g()    # 456 then 789

     print x # 101112

exec-ing or eval-ing 'locals(n)' could return a proxy object that would work
like the current proxy dict (i.e., a read-only snapshot except if it happened
to access globals()).

I suppose you could do a declarative form by giving global (or extern or outer)
a nesting level too.

Hoever, I think lhs := rhs as a spelling of find-and-rebind-lhs would cover
most use cases. (Requiring existing and lhs to have been defined first by
some lhs = rhs in the current or some lexically enclosing scope).

You couldn't reach locally shadowed outer variables of the same name, as you could
with locals(n).name, but how often do you really want to do that? Of course,
locals(n) and global/extern/outer(n) and := could be all be implemented.

Regards,
Bengt Richter


From rnikaREMOVEnder at adelphia.net  Tue Apr 20 22:59:31 2004
From: rnikaREMOVEnder at adelphia.net (Rob Nikander)
Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 19:59:31 -0700
Subject: Opening MS Word files via Python
In-Reply-To: <7b454334.0404201628.371b9e8@posting.google.com>
References: <7b454334.0404201628.371b9e8@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <i7-dnZNwpJ8TfhjdRVn-jg@adelphia.com>

Fazer wrote:
> I am curious as to how I should approach this issue.  I would just
> want to parse simple text and maybe perhaps tables in the future. 
> Would I have to save the word file and open it in a text editor?  That
> would kind of....suck...  Has anyone else tackled this issue?

The win32 extensions for python allow you to get at the COM objects for 
applications like Word, and that would let you get the text and tables. 
  google: win32 python.

word = win32com.client.Dispatch('Word.Application')
word.Documents.Open('C:\\myfile.doc')

But I don't know the best way to find out the methods and properties of 
the "word" object.

Rob



From dlissett0 at yahoo.com  Tue Apr  6 12:02:32 2004
From: dlissett0 at yahoo.com (Duncan Lissett)
Date: 6 Apr 2004 09:02:32 -0700
Subject: Richards bench benchmark
References: <6748553f.0403291446.27fb7b93@posting.google.com>
	<jLCdnW28-PB6cfXdRVn-iQ@powergate.ca>
	<6748553f.0403300836.744e3e22@posting.google.com>
	<Etqdnd8EeYGjM_TdRVn-jA@powergate.ca>
	<6748553f.0403302317.4595844@posting.google.com>
	<RuKdnc0lmsZFTfHdRVn-ug@powergate.ca>
Message-ID: <6748553f.0404060802.6e0d708c@posting.google.com>

Peter Hansen <peter at engcorp.com> wrote in message news:<RuKdnc0lmsZFTfHdRVn-ug at powergate.ca>...

> The code should be available with
> 
>    svn co svn://fortress.engcorp.com/public/bench
> 
> I don't really expect anyone to check it out at this stage, but if you
> happen to have a free moment, I wouldn't mind knowing if subversion
> is properly visible through my firewall.

What do we use to browse that?


From imbosol at aerojockey.invalid  Thu Apr  1 23:48:06 2004
From: imbosol at aerojockey.invalid (Carl Banks)
Date: Fri, 02 Apr 2004 04:48:06 GMT
Subject: From python-dev, space vs. tab controversy finally settled
References: <BrPac.5729$xw6.2105@fe1.columbus.rr.com>
	<c4gkpi$4fg$1@ork.noris.net>
Message-ID: <ag6bc.4177$bQ3.1044@fe2.columbus.rr.com>

Wolfram Kraus wrote:
> 
> 
> Heyho!
> 
> Carl Banks wrote:
>> Here's a summary of the final decision Guido made concerning how
>> Python will indent code in the future, from python-dev:
>> 
>> Guido had been planning to deprecate tabs in favor of spaces for
>> awhile, although there have been good arguments for both tabs and
>> spaces.  But he was never really comfortable pulling the rug out from
>> half the user base.  However, today he finally decided on a compromise
>> that has all the benefits of both spaces and tabs.
>> 
> [...]
> 
>> So, you should start using Unicode character 0009 to indent right
>> away.  Python 2.4 will deprecate all indentation not using the new
>> indent character, and Python 3.0 will not support any other
>> indentation.
>> 
> 
> Nah, this sucks! This will be the death of Python! I'm switching to 
> Whitespace: http://compsoc.dur.ac.uk/whitespace/

You people are missing it.  Look at what the new indent character is.
(It's always funnier when you have to explain it.)


-- 
CARL BANKS                      http://www.aerojockey.com/software
"If you believe in yourself, drink your school, stay on drugs, and
don't do milk, you can get work." 
          -- Parody of Mr. T from a Robert Smigel Cartoon


From fumanchu at amor.org  Thu Apr 15 19:58:09 2004
From: fumanchu at amor.org (Robert Brewer)
Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2004 16:58:09 -0700
Subject: Newbie question: matching
Message-ID: <DE1CF2B4FEC4A342BF62B6B2B334601E562000@opus.amorhq.net>

josh R wrote:
> I am trying to write some python to parse html code.  I find it easier
> to do in perl, but would like to learn some basic python.  My code
> looks like this:
> 
> line = "<tr>eat at joe's</tr><tr>or else</tr><tr>you'll starve</tr>"
> so = re.compile("(\<tr\>.*?\<\\tr\>)")
> foo=so.match(line)
> print foo.groups()
> 
> I'd like to get an array of elements that looks like this:
> 
> array(0)= <tr>eat at joe's</tr>
> array(1)= <tr>or else</tr>
> array(2)= <tr>you'll starve</tr>
> 
> Could you please tell me the correct way to do the matching?

>>> import re
>>> line = "<tr>eat at joe's</tr><tr>or else</tr><tr>you'll starve</tr>"
>>> re.findall(r"<tr>.*?</tr>", line)
["<tr>eat at joe's</tr>", '<tr>or else</tr>', "<tr>you'll starve</tr>"]


> also, is there something similiar to perl's s/foo/bar/g?

re.sub(pattern, repl, string)


FuManChu



From meyer at acm.org  Thu Apr  8 05:22:15 2004
From: meyer at acm.org (Andre Meyer)
Date: 8 Apr 2004 02:22:15 -0700
Subject: Python for AI: OWL and CLIPS anyone?
Message-ID: <10f99b0f.0404080122.1bcbb6e@posting.google.com>

Hi Pythoneers

For a project using Python in Artificial Intelligence I am wondering
whether
useful libraries are available. My interest is primarily in

- an ontology parser/generator/editor, ideally for OWL

- a rule-based expert system (inference engine), something like CLIPS,
ideally linked to OWL

Is either of these available for Python? I have not been able to find
much
information on the Web, yet.

Thanks for hints
Andre


From stach at fr.pl  Fri Apr 16 02:35:03 2004
From: stach at fr.pl (Krzysztof Stachlewski)
Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2004 08:35:03 +0200
Subject: newbie question
References: <Xns94CCA389D3DA0plasticnospamplsxsin@216.77.188.18>
	<c5mtsl$dns$2@absinth.dialog.net.pl>
	<Xns94CCA82D89C84plasticnospamplsxsin@216.77.188.18>
	<c5mvrg$fda$1@absinth.dialog.net.pl>
	<Xns94CCAEBD1A18Eplasticnospamplsxsin@216.77.188.18>
Message-ID: <c5nuno$1mj$1@absinth.dialog.net.pl>

"jeff" <plastic"no-spam-pls"@xsintrk.net> wrote in message
news:Xns94CCAEBD1A18Eplasticnospamplsxsin at 216.77.188.18...

> i only want the socket to close if the word 'kill' has been sent.
> i just tried 'if sdata == "kill\r\n": s.close()', kill\r\n was the string
> repr(sdata) returned.  the IF statement works, but i'm getting a 'bad file
> descriptor' error on the s.close().

This is because you are trying to use a socket that is already closed.
You are calling s.close() but you are not break-ing out of the loop.
In the next iteration s.recv() is called, but s is closed
at that moment. Add a break after the call to s.close().

Stach



From kkennedy65 at yahoo.com  Mon Apr  5 17:37:37 2004
From: kkennedy65 at yahoo.com (kk)
Date: 5 Apr 2004 14:37:37 -0700
Subject: Does Python compete with Java?
Message-ID: <8b336527.0404051337.51bb4a1b@posting.google.com>

I read this mailing list fairly often, and I am always amazed at what
I learn (even not related to Python).  I am relatively new to Python. 
I make my living developing mostly in Java.  Python was a "discovery"
I made a couple of years ago, and I love the language, but only get to
use it at home for hobbies.

With all the recent news:
- ESR tells Sun to open Java, or be relegated into obscurity by
Python, Ruby, and Perl.
- Project mono (C# compiler) is touted to be the next great thing in
Linux, and will be the dominate language. (by it's creator, of
coarse).
- This past weekend, Sun signs deal with devil (oops... Microsoft). 
Now Java "openness" seems to have taken a very large step backwards!

I'd like to know if you guys think Python really has a chance to
compete with Java, .NET, and any other commercially backed language.

The reason I ask is I think it is important to have a "popular"
well-supported Open Source language to compete with the big players. 
PHP seems to have some momentum in popularity, but I much prefer
Python as a language.  Python has much to offer over Java, VB, etc...
Maybe the best chance it has is to ride on the coat-tails of .NET
(Python.NET) and the JVM (Jython).  Interested to hear your comments.


From noemail at noemail4u.com  Fri Apr  2 08:53:26 2004
From: noemail at noemail4u.com (Dang Griffith)
Date: Fri, 02 Apr 2004 13:53:26 GMT
Subject: emergent/swarm/evolutionary systems etc
References: <c4aeq8$92a$1@hercules.btinternet.com>
	<c4btjr$8il$1@titan.btinternet.com>
	<c4ccs2$l9j$1@news.service.uci.edu>
	<c4hjp4$dg6$1@sparta.btinternet.com>
	<c4ibr0$ngm$1@news.service.uci.edu>
	<c4jehj$6eh$1@titan.btinternet.com>
Message-ID: <b58bdd20aeb4b31cdcfc2a4fc1054a3a@news.teranews.com>

On Fri, 2 Apr 2004 10:16:19 +0000 (UTC), "Peter MacKenzie"
<peter9547 at btinternet.com> wrote:

>I'll take that to mean that my chances are slim.  Although this probability
>is mediated my lack of a social life, I've conceived of a contingency
>wherein a standard spreadsheet application could be used to facilitate at
>least some limited degree of modelling.  Given your recommendation, I'll
>ensure the feasibility of this option before I commit to the primary
>methodology, thereby ensuring that a disappointing rate of progress doesn't
>prove fatal for my dissertation.
>
>Fortunately, I've found an online textbook at
>http://www.ibiblio.org/obp/thinkCSpy/index.htm, which appears better suited
>to my needs than the standard python documentation, and may alleviate some
>of the conceptual and syntactical difficulties I've been experiencing.
>
>I expect I may be back here for additional aid in the near-future.
>
The spreadsheet approach may be a suitable alternative, indeed.
In the past, I've taught some friends with an accounting background
a little about programming, using spreadsheet formulae as examples.

Actually, spreadsheets might even have an advantage in your case,
because the calculations are performed simultaneously, for all intents
and purposes.  You don't need to control the "flow".  This is a common
characteristic of "simulation languages", also.  In them, you set up
your equations, relationships, dependencies, etc, provide initial
conditions, and let them run.  There is very little of the linear
sequencing of steps that occurs in most popular languages (python,
C(etc), lisp/scheme, pascal).

To simulate "generations", you will probably need to write a macro
that copies one generation to the next (column, or separate sheet). 
This is ironic, given that the Von Neumann paper that started your
interest in the subject is about copying a machine/program.

Best of luck,
    --dang


From till at score.is.tsukuba.ac.jp  Thu Apr 22 01:42:41 2004
From: till at score.is.tsukuba.ac.jp (Till Plewe)
Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2004 14:42:41 +0900
Subject: python shutting down sloooooooowly/tuning dictionaries
In-Reply-To: <c66915$aou$1@sea.gmane.org>
References: <20040421153923.GA13234%till@score.is.tsukuba.ac.jp>
	<c668j8$9iu$1@sea.gmane.org> <c66915$aou$1@sea.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <20040422054241.GA15312%till@score.is.tsukuba.ac.jp>

On Wed, Apr 21, 2004 at 06:55:24PM +0200, Fredrik Lundh wrote:
> > have you tried using
> >
> >     os._exit()
> >
> > instead of sys.exit()
> 
> better make that
> 
>     os._exit(0)
> 
> </F>
> 

and

On Wed, Apr 21, 2004 at 12:54:14PM -0400, Tim Peters wrote:
> [Till]
> > Thanks for the suggestions but unfortunately I already tried disabling
> > gc. It did not have any noticable effect (not that I was patient
> > enough to time it) nor did using sys.exit().
>
> sys.exit() doesn't skip cleanup.  os._exit() does, but you use that at your
> own risk (it's probably fine, but you've been warned).
>

Thanks. Using os._exit() works.

> > ...
> > To give an example of the actual time spans involved: 2-10 minutes for
> > running the program and > 30 minutes for shutdown. During that time
> > the amount of memory used by python does not seem to vary.
>
> This sounds like the platform C free() falling into quadratic-time behavior.
> You didn't say which version of Python you're using, or which OS + C
> runtime, and "stuff like that" varies according to both.  This kind of
> behavior is generally much rarer under Python 2.3 than under earlier
> Pythons -- but if your platform C malloc/free suck, there's not much more
> Python can do about that than 2.3 already does.
>

I am using Python 2.3 and 2.4, {Gentoo,Suse}Linux+gcc3.3,
{Free,Net}BSD + gcc3.3, gcc2.95, but I don't remember which combination
is the worst offender. Slow shutdowns did occur at least with both Suse9.0 
and FreeBSD5.2 on amd64. I will try some other combinations.

Thanks again.

- Till





From achrist at easystreet.com  Tue Apr 27 01:20:17 2004
From: achrist at easystreet.com (Al Christians)
Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2004 22:20:17 -0700
Subject: How Would You Do: Parsing and Expression Evaluation
Message-ID: <108rren1js1hn71@corp.supernews.com>

I've got an idea for an application, and I wonder how much of what it 
takes to create it is available in open source python components.

My plan is this -- I want to do a simple spreadsheet-like application:
I've used a wxGrid, so I expect that wxPython will do fine for the user 
interface.   The spreadsheet can be organized vertically, one item per 
line.  It might need no more than 100 rows or so.  On each line, the 
user will enter in one column an item (variable) name and, in another 
column, a formula or  expression for computing the item's value.  A 
third column will show the computed value.   There will usually be some 
circular references between the items, but their values will converge 
quickly with repeated evaluation.

The final feature is a button that the user can click when they have the
sheet set up correctly -- it will translate the formulas into simple C 
and python code to perform the same calculations as the spreadsheet.

The formulas should be pretty easy -- add, subtract, multiply, divide,
log, exponential,  and perhaps some user-defined functions.

Are there any off-the-shelf python libraries that would make this kind 
of app much easier?  I don't have any special experience related to such 
things, so I surely don't want to re-invent the wheel out of pure 
ignorance -- should I try the parsing tools in the standard python 
library, or will something else work better for me?

TIA for any advice,


Al


From max at alcyone.com  Thu Apr 15 22:04:16 2004
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2004 19:04:16 -0700
Subject: CamelCase versus wide_names (Prothon)
References: <UHxfc.9323$dZ1.3740@fed1read04>
Message-ID: <407F3F20.DB8FA765@alcyone.com>

Mark Hahn wrote:

> Of course in the Python world you alread have wide_names as your
> standard,
> but could you for the moment pretend you were picking your standard
> from
> scratch (as we are doing in the Prothon world) and give your vote for
> which
> you'd prefer?

I'm surprised you're creating your own language and don't have enough
internal stylistic sense to make this choice yourself.

-- 
 __ Erik Max Francis && max at alcyone.com && http://www.alcyone.com/max/
/  \ San Jose, CA, USA && 37 20 N 121 53 W && AIM erikmaxfrancis
\__/ I wonder if this grief will ever let me go
    -- Sade


From rnikaREMOVEnder at adelphia.net  Tue Apr 20 23:19:38 2004
From: rnikaREMOVEnder at adelphia.net (Rob Nikander)
Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 20:19:38 -0700
Subject: Generator inside a class prevent __del__ ??
In-Reply-To: <200420041800310664%mday@apple.com>
References: <4085BA96.651D2E4A@free.fr> <200420041800310664%mday@apple.com>
Message-ID: <kNKdnYsIEuHbdRjdRVn-uA@adelphia.com>

Mark Day wrote:
> still isn't called.  There must still be a reference to the object.  My
> guess is that the generator (directly or indirectly) is referencing the
> object, creating a self referential loop.
> 

Python has a garbage collector that will try to find these objects with 
cyclic references.

from test import *
 >>> a = toto()
init
 >>> a = None
 >>> import gc
 >>> gc.garbage
[]
 >>> gc.collect()
4
 >>> gc.garbage
[<test.toto instance at 0x81cb78c>]
 >>>

I checked out the documentation for that gc.garbage list and it says 
that the collector can't free objects in cycles if the cyles have 
objects that have __del__ methods.  So it puts them in this list.

I wonder what other garbage collectors do in this situation?  Anyone 
know?  Java?

Rob



From wsr2 at swbell.net  Tue Apr 20 18:24:31 2004
From: wsr2 at swbell.net (Bill Rubenstein)
Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 22:24:31 GMT
Subject: How to check if a path *could* be a legal path?
References: <c62ums$b3b$1@atlantis.news.tpi.pl>
Message-ID: <MPG.1aef5f29c8fd9ea9989720@news.kc.sbcglobal.net>

What is the problem with just creating the file and handling the error case with an except 
clause?

Bill

In article <c62ums$b3b$1 at atlantis.news.tpi.pl>, no.spam at no.spam.com says...
> Hi,
> 
> I have a string.
> This string is to be used as a path for a new file.
> I would like to check if this string *could be* a valid file name, 
> *before* I try to create the file itself.
> In other words, I would like to know whether some string violates the 
> underlying OS's policies (or maybe some more restriced policies, but 
> portable) considering file paths.
> 
> Example:
> 
> 1.
> s = 'C:\file.txt'
> 
> the above is potentially a valid path on my system.
> 
> 2.
> s = 'cc:/^- =#jk\kj+.+?! :-)'
> 
> the above is rather invalid and I would like to check it somehow before 
> I even try to create the file.
> 
> Does the Python library contain a functionality that allows to achieve 
> this goal?
> 
> 


From cmg at dok.org  Tue Apr 13 11:12:17 2004
From: cmg at dok.org (Chris Green)
Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2004 11:12:17 -0400
Subject: pdb + unittest
References: <m23c784mjx.fsf@catbert.dok.org>
	<6tadnUz-4_mOfebdRVn-tw@powergate.ca>
Message-ID: <m2u0znx67i.fsf@catbert.dok.org>

Peter Hansen <peter at engcorp.com> writes:

>
> I'm not entirely clear what you're asking, but generally when
> I need to use pdb with unit tests (or any other time), I simply
> invoke it with "import pdb; pdb.settrace()" and get the prompt
> wherever I want it, single step until I'm satisfied, then type
> "c" to continue at full speed.

Thanks! For some reason, I thought you had to pass set_trace an
argument of the frame you wanted.  That's exactly what I want :)
-- 
Chris Green <cmg at dok.org>
Fame may be fleeting but obscurity is forever.


From colin.blackburn at durham.ac.uk  Tue Apr  6 08:27:36 2004
From: colin.blackburn at durham.ac.uk (Colin Blackburn)
Date: Tue, 06 Apr 2004 13:27:36 +0100
Subject: design by contract versus doctest
References: <407174ea$0$5066$4d4ebb8e@news.nl.uu.net>
	<4072977b$0$1699$afc38c87@news.easynet.co.uk>
Message-ID: <opr51bkaaeyxrafp@nntphost.dur.ac.uk>

On Tue, 06 Apr 2004 12:41:45 +0100, Peter Hickman <peter at semantico.com>  
wrote:

> Looking at the Eiffel site the contract is enforced within the called  
> function.

Only while checking is turned on. It is a design philosophy. You specify  
the pre and post-conditions before code is even thought of, it is part of  
the design.

> put (x: ELEMENT; key: STRING) is
>      -- Insert x so that it will be retrievable through key.
>      require
>          count <= capacity
>          not key.empty
>      do
>          ... Some insertion algorithm ...
>      ensure
>          has (x)
>          item (key) = x
>          count = old count + 1
>      end

This says that *if* the pre-conditions are met (by the caller) *then* the  
post-conditions will be guaranteed to be met (by the called method.) All  
callers know this because the contract is publicly specified. New callers  
can make use of this method because they know what is required of them and  
that a given result will be assured if those requirements are met. They  
know this because the method has been designed correctly for these  
constraints. If the pre-conditions aren't met then not sensible result is  
guaranteed.

Colin
--


From mark at prothon.org  Fri Apr 23 15:12:24 2004
From: mark at prothon.org (Mark Hahn)
Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2004 12:12:24 -0700
Subject: Why we will use obj$func() often
References: <d2Uhc.22272$dZ1.1600@fed1read04>	<84Uhc.22278$dZ1.5087@fed1read04>	<mailman.927.1082665370.20120.python-list@python.org>	<8AWhc.23114$dZ1.11070@fed1read04>
	<mailman.939.1082697809.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<EradnVFq3IILkBTdRVn-vA@powergate.ca>
	<Pedic.28731$dZ1.11479@fed1read04>
Message-ID: <sUdic.28908$dZ1.19791@fed1read04>


"Mark Hahn" <mark at prothon.org> wrote in message
news:Pedic.28731$dZ1.11479 at fed1read04...
>
> "Peter Hansen" <peter at engcorp.com> wrote ...
>
> > Mike, you haven't been keeping up with the other thread.  I think the
> > decision is now:
> >
> >    fish_height$some_where()
>
> That is like SO two-hours-ago.  Marcia like, told me that Biff like, said
> that Trish like, said camelCase was SO out, can you BELIEVE IT????

Peter:   You were making fun of how of fast I'm changing things in Prothon,
right?  I was going along with that humour in my message.  Someone in a
private message accused me of making fun of you, which I was definitely not
doing.

Boy, I better shut up.  I'm just getting myself in deeper and deeper trouble
every message I post today.




From jcarlson at uci.edu  Fri Apr  9 00:12:06 2004
From: jcarlson at uci.edu (Josiah Carlson)
Date: Thu, 08 Apr 2004 21:12:06 -0700
Subject: Are line continuations needed?
In-Reply-To: <tAadc.41947$Id.13441@news-binary.blueyonder.co.uk>
References: <mailman.418.1081348606.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<1078dq6i93pc12d@news.supernews.com>
	<1078skqn9hgdd19@corp.supernews.com>
	<1079015hfg56i28@news.supernews.com>
	<Xns94C5601A46236duncanrcpcouk@127.0.0.1>
	<tAadc.41947$Id.13441@news-binary.blueyonder.co.uk>
Message-ID: <c55811$4be$1@news.service.uci.edu>

Graham Breed wrote:

>> I think that you might find there wasn't any indentation to lose. Read 
>> the point more carefully and you might see he has a valid concern. 
>> Consider this (none of the lines are indented):
>>
>> mystring = """\
>> +---------------+
>> |    '"         |
>> +---------------+
>> """
>>
>> Without a line continuation there simply isn't any way to write this 
>> string and still have the box characters line up neatly.
> 
> 
> mystring = """
> +---------------+
> |    '"         |
> +---------------+
> """[1:]
> 

What about Windows?  You'd need to use [2:].

I would also say that the trailing string slice is ugly.

  - Josiah


From franck.lepoutre at caramail.com  Thu Apr 22 13:17:55 2004
From: franck.lepoutre at caramail.com (francois lepoutre)
Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2004 19:17:55 +0200
Subject: Paris python user group?
References: <408795ee$0$25893$79c14f64@nan-newsreader-02.noos.net>
	<c68q34$7lo$1@news-reader4.wanadoo.fr>
Message-ID: <4087fd7f$0$21549$79c14f64@nan-newsreader-01.noos.net>

> ca me fait penser aux phpbeermeeting tout ca :)
> Enfin moi pour boire un coup
> je suis toujours d'accord.

Bonne nouvelle. Et de quatre ...

Les buveurs d'autres bi?res, php en particulier, sont bienvenus.
Le python a un gout inimitable cependant.

> c'est quoi ce truc de poster un message en anglais + francais ?
> sur fr.xxx le francais suffit. et pour l'universalit?, ya esperanto :p

Le message a ?t? cross post? sur comp.lang.python pour
le cas d'?ventuels informaticiens non francophones scotch?s sur
Paris Il y en a ... et pour nos gurus lors de leurs passages dans
notre ville lumi?re. Guido, parlez vous fran?ais?

Pour l'esperanto, pas de probl?me. Je te laisse le soin de
la traduction:)

> le plus simple pour commencer serait de creer une liste de diffusion
> (mailinglist pour les anglophones), pour ca on a l'embarras du choix
(yahoo
> groups, ou les mailing lists Sympa, etc).

Excellente id?e. Je propose de monter la liste ... apr?s la premi?re
r?union et sous r?serve d'atteindre un quorumn, aka nombre de bi?res,
suffisant. Histoire de motiver les troupes.

A+

Fran?ois




From bhoel at web.de  Thu Apr  8 14:36:39 2004
From: bhoel at web.de (Berthold Höllmann)
Date: Thu, 08 Apr 2004 20:36:39 +0200
Subject: Embedding python in ANSYS: Anyone tried it?
References: <mailman.457.1081434228.20120.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <m2ptai9v0o.fsf@pchoel.psh>


Hello,

"Satish Chimakurthi" <skchim0 at engr.uky.edu> writes:

> Hello Mr. Berthold,
>
> A few months ago, I contemplated interfacing/wrapping ANSYS to
> Python. I looked at SWIG, BABEL, Boost.Python for this purpose at
> that time, only to realise that such direct wrapping is not possible
> since ANSYS libraries are basically Fortran based. I thought of the
> following work-around to the problem.
>
> ANSYS allows users to compile their own customized version. It gives
> the user access to its vast libraries with the help of some UPF
> routines ( look at ANSYS-UPF documentation here
> http://www.cesup.ufrgs.br/ansys/prog_55/g-upf/UPS1.htm ). You may be
> knowing this. There is a file called ANSCUSTOM in
> "/usr/local/ansys/v71/ansys/customize/user" directory. First, I
> wrote a "Makefile" and a "make.inc" file based on the information in
> ANSCUSTOM. I then wrote a Fortran code in which I used all the UPF
> routines I needed to be used with ANSYS. I compiled the Fortran code
> with "make.inc" simultaneously to get a binary executable. And
> that's it, I was ready to go. The binary executable could be
> executed using a specific command which could be found in ANSYS
> Installation and Configuration manual, I think. In my case, I was
> using ANSYS 7.1, so, I had to execute it as: "anscust71 -custom
> ./executable -p ANSYSRF".
>
> Now, with all that I described above, link between Fortran and ANSYS
> has become possible. You can look at F2PY (Fortran to Python
> Interface Generator) here http://cens.ioc.ee/projects/f2py2e/ to
> have an interface between your Python script and Fortran code that
> you would be writing for the purpose. At the moment, my
> Python-Fortran interface is very loose. I use Fortran to ANSYS
> mostly and do postprocessing work in Python.

This is what I am thinking about. Our final aim is to wrap as much
functionality of ANSYS to be abble to pre- and postprocess our
calculations with the help of Python modules. I have basic knowledge
about writing UPF in ANSYS and some experience in writing Python
extension modules. I now started wrapping ANSYS UPF routines using
f2py and am already able to call some basic python examples from
ANSYS. I mainly asked because wrapping a sufficiant amout of the ANSYS
interface routines is a lot of stupid typing work, and if sombody else
did it before, it would be nice to share the work :-)

I won't link my own ANSYS executable, but save time, space and efforts
by building a dynamic load shared library for ansys which is available
since about ANSYS 6.0 or 6.1. I will do my work using ANSYS 8.1.

> Please let me know if you think of any other ideas about wrapping
> Python and ANSYS directly. I would appreciate your assistance.

A nice thing to try when the basics run is to provide a python
interface for generating user elements etc. in Python. But I'm afraid
that would require some naugthy magic, is error prone and too much for
the first step.

Kind regards
Berthold H?llmann
-- 
bhoel at web.de / http://starship.python.net/crew/bhoel/


From mwh at python.net  Fri Apr 23 07:29:12 2004
From: mwh at python.net (Michael Hudson)
Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2004 11:29:12 GMT
Subject: python web programming / CMS
References: <EOOhc.82192$A9.5538906@phobos.telenet-ops.be>
	<mailman.910.1082637637.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<XnQhc.82310$X%7.5425202@phobos.telenet-ops.be>
	<0kVhc.54316$eB7.29255@newssvr25.news.prodigy.com>
	<9YWhc.82882$%l7.5377160@phobos.telenet-ops.be>
	<m3fzavnfy3.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk>
	<G%6ic.83378$s6.5442626@phobos.telenet-ops.be>
Message-ID: <m37jw7nda0.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk>

"flupke" <flupke at nonexistingdomain.com> writes:

> "Michael Hudson" <mwh at python.net> schreef in bericht
> news:m3fzavnfy3.fsf at pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk...
> 
> > You can certainly do dynamic content with Zope/Plone, using Page
> > Templates and TAL and Scripts (Python) and so on (indeed, quite a
> > large portion of Plone is a collection of Page Templates and Python
> > scripts).  It's probably possible to use Plone and Spyce at the same
> > time, but I can't see why you'd want to.
> 
> The reason why i would want to use Plone and Spyce is that Spyce
> provides an easy way to include/embed python code in a html file like
> one would do with a jsp page.
> I don't think that Plone supports something like that or at least not
> that nice but i could be wrong.

That's what Page Templates are!  Ish.  Well, Page Templates solve the
same problem, though you're encouraged to put significant logic in
Python scripts which you call from the template.  I happen to agree
with the designers of Page Templates that this is a very good idea; I
guess others might differ.

Cheers,
mwh

-- 
  I have long since given up dealing with people who hold idiotic
  opinions as if they had arrived at them through thinking about
  them.                                 -- Erik Naggum, comp.lang.lisp


From ville at spammers.com  Wed Apr 28 02:31:45 2004
From: ville at spammers.com (Ville Vainio)
Date: 28 Apr 2004 09:31:45 +0300
Subject: Ideas for Python 3
References: <s1pt80h988ucqd8vbrd3occhpagtpssigg@4ax.com>
	<onrt805i8q1qv5amhk06pqpe8umm9i7mhc@4ax.com>
	<c6mtgm$e09bj$1@ID-88904.news.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <du765bkhaum.fsf@mozart.cc.tut.fi>

>>>>> "Michael" == Michael Walter <cm at leetspeak.org> writes:

    Michael> Almost. Or write mapc ("map currying") and have:

Note - the name mapc is very misleading, because it looks too much
like Lisp mapc (mapcar, equicalent to normal python map).

-- 
Ville Vainio   http://tinyurl.com/2prnb


From alexanro at stud.ntnu.no  Sun Apr 18 18:16:52 2004
From: alexanro at stud.ntnu.no (=?iso-8859-1?q?Alexander_R=F8dseth?=)
Date: Mon, 19 Apr 2004 00:16:52 +0200
Subject: Pygame
References: <c5jdv2$s4$1@orkan.itea.ntnu.no>
	<xZydnfgqeaiK3ODdRVn-tw@powergate.ca>
	<c5jgvh$2m5$1@orkan.itea.ntnu.no>
	<mailman.620.1081958099.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<gandreas-33F0F9.12165314042004@news.mpls.visi.com>
	<c5jt79$8m6$1@orkan.itea.ntnu.no> <OHlfc.1557$2e6.832@lakeread01>
Message-ID: <pan.2004.04.18.22.16.52.79629@stud.ntnu.no>

Den Wed, 14 Apr 2004 21:37:45 -0400, skrev Steve Holden:

> Alexander R?dseth wrote:
> 
> [...]> (Note: "ipv6" is just an example, for the sake of the name, I 
> know that it's not a standard Python-module).
>> 
> In point of fact since Python 2.3 the socket module has handled IPv6.

That's not what I said either. I really tried to stress that
it was just an example for the sake of the name. Please tell me
how I could possibly express this any clearer, so that I can
do so in the future.



> But if you mean that geeks like, and therefore tend to include, geeky 
> things in their langauge distributions, you could have a point.

I mean that network-geeks have a tendency to ignore anything
that's got to do with graphics-programming.



> Nothing in the license stops you from building and distributing 
> "friendly Python", though, so you might consider putting your own 
> distribution together. If that's too hard, you will at least begin to 
> get the idea why PyGame (and this, that and the other) aren't in the 
> standard distribution.
> If you get it together I believe you would increase Python's popularity.

The point is that it's illogical not to support fullscreen graphics,
but a bunch of other stuff, without any explanation whatsoever.
The programming languages I know of, has a long tradition
of having some way of doing fullscreen graphics natively, and I don't
see any reason for Python not to have this possibility.


- Alexander



From fumanchu at amor.org  Sun Apr  4 14:29:57 2004
From: fumanchu at amor.org (Robert Brewer)
Date: Sun, 4 Apr 2004 11:29:57 -0700
Subject: Processes with strange behavoir
Message-ID: <DE1CF2B4FEC4A342BF62B6B2B334601E561FAF@opus.amorhq.net>

Markus Franz wrote:
> #!/usr/bin/python
> 
> import urllib2, sys, socket, os, string
> 
> # set timeout
> socket.setdefaulttimeout(4)
> 
> # function for loading and printing a website
> def myfunction(url):
>     try:
>         req = urllib2.Request(url)
>         req.add_header('Accept-Language', sys.argv[1])
>         req.add_header('User-Agent', 'Mozilla/4.0 
> (compatible; MSIE 6.0;
> Windows NT 5.1)')
>         f = urllib2.urlopen(req)
>         contents = f.read()
>         output = "\n---PI001---" + sys.argv[2] + 
> '---PI001---' + '---PI002-'
> + sys.argv[2] + '::' + f.geturl() + '::' + sys.argv[2] + 
> "-PI002---\n" +
> contents
>         print output
>         del output
>         f.close()
>         del contents
>         del f
>         del req
>     except:
>         pass

Question to anyone--are the 'del' statements above doing anything that
doesn't happen automatically when the function closes? I was under the
impression that such explicit statements were unnecessary, but perhaps
I'm unaware of some quirk.


FuManChu



From samiller at wmis.net  Fri Apr  2 09:47:07 2004
From: samiller at wmis.net (Scott Miller)
Date: Fri, 2 Apr 2004 09:47:07 -0500
Subject: Unable to launch IDLE
Message-ID: <MOEEIEHMDEKAKOCNFHAOGECCCHAA.samiller@wmis.net>

I am new to Python (and programming in general).

I have downloaded and installed the Windows installer version of Python 2.3.

The Python (Command line) runs fine, but I just get the hour glass for a few
seconds then it bombs out when I try to run IDLE.

OS Win2kPro SP4

Please help me get started :)

Thanks in advance.
Proelin




From rkern at ucsd.edu  Thu Apr 29 17:08:16 2004
From: rkern at ucsd.edu (Robert Kern)
Date: Thu, 29 Apr 2004 14:08:16 -0700
Subject: Newbe-books
In-Reply-To: <Uldkc.29554$Qc.1128956@twister1.libero.it>
References: <Uldkc.29554$Qc.1128956@twister1.libero.it>
Message-ID: <c6rqs0$5ja$1@news1.ucsd.edu>

Sarge wrote:
> Hi,
> I'm newbe of python, but not of programming (a lot of Matlab, some 
> C, a bit of C++), I want a *good* book on python for self-study.
> I'm short of money, I don't want to make any mistakes, so does 
> anybody have any suggestions (buy this-don't buy that)?

My suggestion: don't buy anything, yet. Work through the official 
tutorial; start converting the more self-contained of your Matlab code 
to Python; ask questions here, on the Tutor list[1], and the SciPy list 
as appropriate. Read the source code of the packages you think you'll be 
using: you'll get a better idea of how to code in Pythonic (or 
SciPythonic) idiom this way.

In my experience, this "jump right in, the water's warm" approach 
obviates much of the need for an introductory dead-tree book on the 
language. Which isn't to say that such books aren't good or worthwhile, 
but when you're strapped for cash, it's better to exhaust the freely 
available material[2] before heading to the bookstore. Then again, if 
reading book-length material on the computer screen makes your eyes all 
googly or you want something you can read on the bus, then dead-tree is 
the way to go, but I have no suggestions for you.

[1] http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor
[2] http://www.python.org/doc/Intros.html

> Thanx,
> Sarge

-- 
Robert Kern
rkern at ucsd.edu

"In the fields of hell where the grass grows high
  Are the graves of dreams allowed to die."
   -- Richard Harter


From t-meyer at ihug.co.nz  Wed Apr 21 23:29:07 2004
From: t-meyer at ihug.co.nz (Tony Meyer)
Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2004 15:29:07 +1200
Subject: zip 2 sequences into 1
In-Reply-To: <1ED4ECF91CDED24C8D012BCF2B034F1305FF656F@its-xchg4.massey.ac.nz>
Message-ID: <1ED4ECF91CDED24C8D012BCF2B034F13026F2BB5@its-xchg4.massey.ac.nz>

> def flatten(s):
>     for i in s:
>         for j in i:
>             yield j
> 
> flatten(zip([1,2,3], "abc"))

Or (I find zip confusing, so avoid it :) ):

def merge(s1, s2):
    for i in xrange(min(len(s1), len(s2))):
        yield s1[i]
        yield s2[i]

>>> import timeit
>>> f = "def flatten(s):\n for i in s:\n\n  for j in i:   yield j"
>>> m = "def merge(s1, s2):\n for i in xrange(min(len(s1), len(s2))):\n
yield s1[i]\n  yield s2[i]"
>>> t = timeit.Timer("list(flatten(zip([1,2,3], 'abc')))", setup=f)
>>> t.timeit()
8.6624506745969256
>>> t = timeit.Timer("list(merge([1,2,3], 'abc'))", setup=m)
>>> t.timeit()
7.8756800096101642

=Tony Meyer




From hungjunglu at yahoo.com  Sat Apr  3 23:38:36 2004
From: hungjunglu at yahoo.com (Hung Jung Lu)
Date: 3 Apr 2004 20:38:36 -0800
Subject: Python conference slogan
References: <mailman.189.1080759511.20120.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <8ef9bea6.0404032038.5c186a09@posting.google.com>

# Did you Python today?

regards,

Hung Jung


From projecktzero at yahoo.com  Sun Apr 11 15:47:58 2004
From: projecktzero at yahoo.com (rakanishu)
Date: 11 Apr 2004 12:47:58 -0700
Subject: Best IDE?
References: <c5bg1k$25vq$1@news.wplus.net>
Message-ID: <4ace7f9f.0404111147.3120288a@posting.google.com>

"Stevie_mac" <no.email at please.com> wrote in message news:<c5bg1k$25vq$1 at news.wplus.net>...
> This has prolly been asked 100 times - so please refrain from flaming if you can...
> 
> What's the best MSwindows editor for python?  I'm currently using PythonWin (ActiveState) at the moment, its a bit
> buggy - but not too bad. I mean, its got autocomplete & tips & help & autoindentaion (not always good tho).
> 
> Thing is, I'm sure there is something better. Is there?
> 
> (is there a VS.NET addin?)

You might take a look at Activestate to see about a .NET add-in. 

Also, Activestate has Komodo which isn't too bad. It's like PythonWin
on steroids.

A lot of people seem to like JEdit. It runs on nearly any platform
that can run Java. I've done a little bit of HTML editing using it. It
seem pretty good.

I don't know if I'd call 'em IDEs but it's worth taking the time to
learn either emacs or vim. Both are very powerful editors that run on
multiple platforms. I tried emacs three times, but couldn't get into
it. I'm now getting hooked on vim. YMMV.

Others that I've heard good things about are Eclipse and Scite.


From elainejackson7355 at home.com  Mon Apr 26 00:23:31 2004
From: elainejackson7355 at home.com (Elaine Jackson)
Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2004 04:23:31 GMT
Subject: Andreas' practical language comparison
References: <c6glig$phm$07$4@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <790jc.244413$Pk3.195251@pd7tw1no>

At my website (SeanMcIlroy.nexuswebs.net) I keep a compressed file of all the
modules I've written so far in the process of teaching myself python. One of
them has to do with prime numbers, primitive roots, etc, which I see forms part
of your language comparison. There are also python implementations of some
standard graph algorithms (Kruskal, Dijkstra) and assorted other mathematical
tidbits, as well as some toy games (tic-tac-toe, nim, mastermind). Help yourself
to whatever you want.


"Andreas Koch" <nospam at kochandreas.com> wrote in message
news:c6glig$phm$07$4 at news.t-online.com...
| Hi all,
|
| i started a little "practical language comparison" - practical
| in the sense that i compare how actual distributions and versions
| and their libraries (not abstract language specifications) solve small
| test cases like the 8 queens problem.
|
| Currently there are contributions for 17 different languages, and
| none for Phyton (and Lisp. And Forth. And many others ).
| If someone is interested in contributing a few implementations,
| please have a look at:
|
| http://www.kochandreas.com/home/language/lang.htm
|
| and mail me your code snippets (or critics) or post them here.
|
|                         thanks a lot,
| --
|                                    Andreas
| He screamed: THIS IS SIG!




From cybermanxu at hotmail.com  Fri Apr 30 08:30:14 2004
From: cybermanxu at hotmail.com (Jinming Xu)
Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2004 07:30:14 -0500
Subject: Why cannot jump out the loop?
Message-ID: <BAY9-F44RvcaEyoeszq0000509d@hotmail.com>

Dear Skip, Timothy, Mark andBeno?t,

Thank you all for answering my question. And now I know what the problem is.

Wish you all have a great day!

Take care,

Jinming

_________________________________________________________________
Express yourself with the new version of MSN Messenger! Download today - 
it's FREE! http://messenger.msn.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/




From jacek.generowicz at cern.ch  Fri Apr  2 04:48:43 2004
From: jacek.generowicz at cern.ch (Jacek Generowicz)
Date: 02 Apr 2004 11:48:43 +0200
Subject: Simple text markup (-> HTML)
Message-ID: <tyf3c7m1zic.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>

:::Title::: A simple text markup utility :::/Title:::

:::Section Introduction :::

I'm looking for something to help developers wirte documentation for
bits of software they are writing. The main (initially only)
presentation format will be HTML. The idea is to allow the author to
write a plain text file containing the text he wishes to present,
annotated with minimally intrusive markup which describes the
:::emph::: meaning :::/emph::: of parts of the text. The author should
not concern himself with how the output will look; he should trust the
rendering process to Do The Right Thing.

For example, the author might want to communicate that some portion of
text represents source code, or commands to be issued, or output given
by a program.

:::Example:::

A recursive implementation of the Fibonacci function might look like this

:::Source:::
def fib(n):
    if n<2: return 1
    return fib(n-1) + fib(n-2)
:::/Source:::

And it works like this

:::Input::: fib(8) :::/Input:::
:::Output::: 34 :::/Output:::

:::/Example::: :::/Section:::


:::Section Why not XML ? :::

The idea is that the utility should be minimally intrusive to the
author. Given that the author is likely to want to paste source code,
having to substitite all occurances of "<" with &lt and so on is
completely unacceptable.

As you can see, I have been using triple colons in this presentation
as a sufficiently unlikely character combination, to replace XML's "<"
and ">". Clearly this is not ideal. Maybe allowing the author to
specify how the markup should be identified is a solution ... for
example an instruction such as :::SetMarkup ||::: could be used to
change the markup identification sequence to two vertical bars (taking
effect only in "leafward" parts of the parse tree.
||/Section||


||Section Why not LaTeX ? ||

Yes, LaTeX pretty much reifies the idea I am trying to express, and I
could use something in the LateX2HTML genre as a
backend. Unfortunately LaTeX it not politically acceptable in my
environment.

(If the markup is sufficiently simple, then something based on s-exprs
could pass through the political correctness filters ... as long as
implemented in C(++) or Python.)

||Section Automation||

Ideally, I'd like to be able to execute arbitrary Python code within
the document source, in order to "suck in" information from elsewhere.

||Source||
||Macro||
for line in open("example1.cpp",'r'):
    print line
||/Macro||
||/Source||

Given the fragment above, the source code in the file "example1.cpp"
would be inserted into the document.

||Section Inclusion||

Also, I'd like to be able to inline other sources of the same document
format:

||Include ~/docs/fubar.baz||

||/Section||


||Section Summary||

Of course, I am not looking for anything that looks exactly like what
I have shown. What I have presented here merely serves to illustrate
what sort of functionality I am looking for.

Neither am I looking for something of industrial strength, but
something that would solve more problems than it creates. The bottom
line is that I want authors to write something that looks mostly like
plain text, and be able to communicate a few key items of
meta-information via markup.

Any suggestions ?

||/Section||


From p_s_oberoi at hotmail.com  Fri Apr 23 23:42:48 2004
From: p_s_oberoi at hotmail.com (Paramjit Oberoi)
Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2004 22:42:48 -0500
Subject: CamelCase versus wide_names (Prothon)
References: <UHxfc.9323$dZ1.3740@fed1read04>
	<6e0680ac.0404211252.7f7b4358@posting.google.com>
	<4086DFA7.9736E7D3@alcyone.com>
	<roy-15454C.18080121042004@reader2.panix.com>
	<PdEhc.19536$dZ1.11964@fed1read04>
	<slrnc8hluh.s60.apardon@trout.vub.ac.be>
	<nkcic.28282$dZ1.27269@fed1read04>
Message-ID: <pan.2004.04.24.03.42.47.981@hotmail.com>

The problem comes down to the fact that variable names consist of
multiple words, and there is no standard way of combining multiple
words into one name.  But, what if the language was aware of this
fact?

If the language 'knew' that identifiers potentially consisted of
multiple words, maybe it could detect a few different kinds of
styles and automatically do the right thing?

Or maybe programmers could declare their own personal word-combiner,
sort of like a metaclass?

I'm not sure of this is a really good idea or a really bad one...

-param

> That's cool looking but I'm pretty sure impossible to parse the way you
> want
> :)




From matthew at barnes.net  Tue Apr 13 17:27:19 2004
From: matthew at barnes.net (Matthew Barnes)
Date: 13 Apr 2004 14:27:19 -0700
Subject: Adding properties to objects
References: <3a8e83d2.0404130906.2ea796e9@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3a8e83d2.0404131327.33dfe92a@posting.google.com>

matthew at barnes.net (Matthew Barnes) wrote:
> Is it possible to add properties to objects dynamically?

So the impression I'm getting is that it's *possible* but not really
intended, otherwise there would be better support in the core
language.  Fair statement?

I'll take that as a clue that there's probably a cleaner approach to
the problem I'm trying to solve.

The feedback was informative... thank you all!

Matthew Barnes


From gabriel.cooper at mediapulse.com  Wed Apr  7 11:17:24 2004
From: gabriel.cooper at mediapulse.com (Gabriel Cooper)
Date: Wed, 07 Apr 2004 11:17:24 -0400
Subject: Are line continuations needed?
In-Reply-To: <10784c8ps1vsu34@news.supernews.com>
References: <407409ef.82801353@news.eircom.net>	<40740f99@duster.adelaide.on.net>
	<10784c8ps1vsu34@news.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <40741B84.1070305@mediapulse.com>




>Technically, you could have split it at the period, but that
>might be even worse in terms of readability.
>  
>
or the parenthesis...  which affects readability much less than at the 
period...



From donn at drizzle.com  Sun Apr 18 14:35:38 2004
From: donn at drizzle.com (Donn Cave)
Date: Sun, 18 Apr 2004 18:35:38 -0000
Subject: module not callable - why not?
References: <c56jph$rrk$05$1@news.t-online.com><107dras2heahcb6@news.supernews.com><mailman.491.1081538569.20120.python-list@python.org><8ef9bea6.0404122025.36efc84e@posting.google.com><c5tef0$5hf$1@news.service.uci.edu><7xsmf1fxd9.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<8ef9bea6.0404180823.7a3bc189@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.742.1082306209.20120.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1082313337.852341@yasure>

Quoth "Fredrik Lundh" <fredrik at pythonware.com>:
| Hung Jung Lu wrote:
|
| > In prototype-based OOP, you don't have any of these problems.
|
| most of those problems don't apply if you're using Python in the "old way".
|
| it's not like you *need* metaclasses, singleton patterns,
| staticmethods/classmethods, or class/module properties to
| write rock-solid, easily maintained, efficient, and scalable
| Python programs.   Python works just fine without them.

For that matter, I would rather expect software written without them
to be more solid and easily maintained.

It seems to me that it is easier to reason about the code you're
looking at, when it works within a simply structured system and
relies on thoughtful design for its elegance, instead of gimmicks.

I doubt it's just historical accident that OOP languages more or
less all have the class concept, or the type concept.  This is an
organizing principle, helpful for human brains.

	Donn Cave, donn at drizzle.com


From usenet_spam at janc.invalid  Thu Apr  1 23:07:50 2004
From: usenet_spam at janc.invalid (JanC)
Date: Fri, 02 Apr 2004 04:07:50 GMT
Subject: GUI Frameworks in Python?
References: <mailman.102.1080629227.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<8089854e.0403300518.3a180414@posting.google.com>
	<c0ed04f1.0403310510.72ad6cf0@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.175.1080740554.20120.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <Xns94BF3E5C680CCJanC@213.119.4.35>

Lars Heuer <python at quixs.com> schreef:

> Another problem of Mozilla / XUL is, that you've to switch between
> your programming languages: JavaScript for XUL and your favorite
> programming language in the back. If your favorite programming lang
> is JavaScript, you don't have to switch, of course. ;)

But look at what Mozilla.org are planning:
<http://www.mozilla.org/events/dev-day-feb-2004/mozilla-futures/langs.html>

-- 
JanC

"Be strict when sending and tolerant when receiving."
RFC 1958 - Architectural Principles of the Internet - section 3.9


From seberino at spawar.navy.mil  Tue Apr 13 02:07:48 2004
From: seberino at spawar.navy.mil (Christian Seberino)
Date: 12 Apr 2004 23:07:48 -0700
Subject: twisted dns server look so easy to set up... am i missing
	something? does it work?
Message-ID: <bf23f78f.0404122207.3bd501ad@posting.google.com>

http://twisted.sourceforge.net/TwistedDocs-1.2.0rc2/howto/names.html

tells you how to create an authoritative dns server in a few lines!??

This is 10 times easier than bind and/or djbdns.

Am I missing something?  Does this really work that easily???

Anyone tried it?!

Chris


From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Fri Apr  2 20:11:47 2004
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 2 Apr 2004 20:11:47 -0500
Subject: PEP 328: Imports: Multi-Line and Absolute/Relative
References: <c2ikqo$f3h$1@panix2.panix.com> <x71xnzhvb7.fsf@handshake.de>
	<2c60a528.0403150152.6af7f53f@posting.google.com>
	<x77jxfupuc.fsf@handshake.de>
Message-ID: <c4l30j$8ee$1@panix3.panix.com>

In article <x77jxfupuc.fsf at handshake.de>,
Dieter Maurer  <dieter at handshake.de> wrote:
>
>Python explicitely adds the directory it finds a script in to the front
>of "sys.path". I think it does this because it expects a high
>chance that the script *needs* to access modules in this directory.

Actually, that's not quite true.  If the script is in the current
directory, Python prepends "''" to sys.path, which means that you'll
have problems if you use os.chdir().

>What about inventing a syntax for absolute imports as well (and let the
>behaviour of unadorned imports as it is now).

Because absolute imports are the common case.
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

"usenet imitates usenet"  --Darkhawk


From dolzenko at rsu.ru  Thu Apr  1 11:16:27 2004
From: dolzenko at rsu.ru (Eugeni Doljenko)
Date: Thu, 1 Apr 2004 20:16:27 +0400
Subject: Microsoft making Python.NET
References: <mv6o6092r2k569f48ri26ef9j1h7fhjiak@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <012f01c41804$af9e75f0$b0fcd0c3@cooler>

"April Fools! But This One Is Real ..."
Don't you think you're faked?


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Greg" <antiego at nospam.rocketmail.com>
Newsgroups: comp.lang.python
To: <python-list at python.org>
Sent: Thursday, April 01, 2004 6:56 PM
Subject: Microsoft making Python.NET


> The following article from microsoft describes a workaroind for a bug
> in hte beta version of VISUAL PYTHON DOT NET
>
>
http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/default.asp?url=/library/en-us/dnaskdr/html/askgui04032001.asp
>
> When did microsoft put python into the visual studio beta? How did
> this not make big news in developmnt circles?
>
> A.E.
>
>
>
> Here is the body of the article:
>
> FIX: Memory Leak after pickling in Visual Python .NET Beta 1
>
> View products that this article applies to.
> This article was previously published under Q114345321
> IMPORTANT: This article contains information about modifying the
> registry. Before you modify the registry, make sure to back it up and
> make sure that you understand how to restore the registry if a problem
> occurs. For information about how to back up, restore, and edit the
> registry, click the following article number to view the article in
> the Microsoft Knowledge Base:
>
> 114345321/8 Description of the Microsoft Windows Registry
>
> SYMPTOMS
> When pickling an object containing a cyclic graph, the Visual Python
> .NET Beta 1 can create references that will not be garbage collected.
>
> CAUSE
> Visual Python .NET Beta 1 does not impose a recursion limit by
> default. In this mode, an objects references are evaluated lazily
> durring pickling. If the garbage collector runs durring this process,
> some objects can be incorrectly referenced.
> The failure is due to registry key data that was installed by Visual
> Python .NET Beta 1.
>
> RESOLUTION
> WARNING: If you use Registry Editor incorrectly, you may cause serious
> problems that may require you to reinstall your operating system.
> Microsoft cannot guarantee that you can solve problems that result
> from using Registry Editor incorrectly. Use Registry Editor at your
> own risk.
>
> Open Regedit.exe and browse to
> HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Software\Microsoft\VisualStudio\8.0\P++\RecursionLimit.
> To be safe, back up this registry key: From the File menu, click
> Export and save the key to an .reg file.
> Set the RecusionLimit key from 0 to 1000.
>
> STATUS
> Microsoft has confirmed that this is a bug in the Microsoft products
> that are listed at the beginning of this article. This bug will be
> corrected in Visual Python .NET (2004).
>
> The information in this article applies to:
> Microsoft Visual Studio .NET 8.0, Beta 1
>
>
> -- 
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list





From anand at easi.soft.net  Mon Apr 19 07:50:34 2004
From: anand at easi.soft.net (Anand K Rayudu)
Date: Mon, 19 Apr 2004 17:20:34 +0530
Subject: COM & Python
Message-ID: <4083BD0A.1030700@easi.soft.net>

Hi all,

I want to use python with COM extension. I am successful using python as 
client.
I could interact to my application through COM interfaces from python.

I also want to use the win32ui layer, which wrapped all MFC user 
interface functionality.
I am just wondering if some on can guide me with some documentation on 
using them.
I want to know how the call backs are handled in particular.
Any sample code will be a great start for me.
If this is possible I can create any dialog boxes with any controls from 
python itself!! :-)
And take advantage of MFC's View , scroll view and so on. Just exciting!!

Thanks in advance,
Anand






From python at simon.vc  Fri Apr 16 11:26:46 2004
From: python at simon.vc (SimonVC)
Date: 16 Apr 2004 08:26:46 -0700
Subject: Embeded python without filesystem
References: <c5o5em$bq$1@taurus.webcorp.pl>
Message-ID: <fa156589.0404160726.82cba20@posting.google.com>

Maybe have a look at Pippy, which is python for the Palm. 
As i understand it there  is no file system on the Palm. 

http://pippy.sf.net

Cheers
 VC

Jacek Cz <michalw at trylogia.pl> wrote in message news:<c5o5em$bq$1 at taurus.webcorp.pl>...
> Do you have some tips about making Python small (minimal list of 
> modules) and isolated from filesystem. I have an idea
> 
> #define Py_WITHOUT_FILES
> This switch should disable some function/modules from modules sys, 
> fileobject, but also import from file, path resolving etd.


From newsgroups at jhrothjr.com  Mon Apr 26 13:38:28 2004
From: newsgroups at jhrothjr.com (John Roth)
Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2004 13:38:28 -0400
Subject: Is Perl *that* good? (was: How's ruby compare to it older bro
References: <mailman.18.1082989111.25742.python-list@python.org><lNadndrvs_FarRDdRVn-vA@powergate.ca>
	<mailman.25.1082997844.25742.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <108qi9dno1cfnd4@news.supernews.com>


"Skip Montanaro" <skip at pobox.com> wrote in message
news:mailman.25.1082997844.25742.python-list at python.org...
>
>     Peter> I guess it would be interesting to pose the question back to
them
>     Peter> "If you could not use regexes in Perl, would you still like to
>     Peter> program in it?" or "If you couldn't use mysql in PHP would you
>     Peter> still use it?"
>
>     Peter> What similar question, if any, would be a difficult one for us
>     Peter> Python types?
>
> "If Python didn't support indentation-based block structure would you
still
> use it?"
>
> :-)

I probably wouldn't have learned it - indentation based block
structure has been one of my "nice to have" things from at least
the middle '70s, so when I saw it in Python, I learned it to see how
it ran, and haven't looked back. However, it's not the reason I stay with
it.

John Roth
>
> Skip
>
>




From claird at lairds.com  Sat Apr  3 18:12:51 2004
From: claird at lairds.com (Cameron Laird)
Date: Sat, 03 Apr 2004 23:12:51 -0000
Subject: emergent/swarm/evolutionary systems etc
References: <c4aeq8$92a$1@hercules.btinternet.com>
	<c4hjp4$dg6$1@sparta.btinternet.com>
	<c4ibr0$ngm$1@news.service.uci.edu>
	<c4jehj$6eh$1@titan.btinternet.com>
Message-ID: <106uh7jjgf8aebe@corp.supernews.com>

In article <c4jehj$6eh$1 at titan.btinternet.com>,
Peter MacKenzie <peter9547 at btinternet.com> wrote:
			.
			.
			.
>Fortunately, I've found an online textbook at
>http://www.ibiblio.org/obp/thinkCSpy/index.htm, which appears better suited
>to my needs than the standard python documentation, and may alleviate some
>of the conceptual and syntactical difficulties I've been experiencing.
			.
			.
			.
*Thinking ... with Python* isn't in opposition to "the standard Python
documentation"; it's complementary.

As you perhaps expect, computing is sufficiently ramified to have its
own culture.  It is VERY common for good, well-regarded, high-status,
... practitioners to be *aware* of "standards", without having *learned*
from them, or having learned only highly-specialized material.  MANY of
the regulars in this newsgroup applaud and have benefitted from *Think-
ing ...*.

More broadly, no right-thinking Pythoneer says to newcomers, "read 'the
standard Python documentation'."  We *do* have the habits of recommend-
ing the canonical tutorial, *Thinking ...*, and, depending on ones
background and aims, several other tutorials and books.  You're doing
fine.  Don't think you have to read "the references" for now; you're 
OK with "tutorials".
-- 

Cameron Laird <claird at phaseit.net>
Business:  http://www.Phaseit.net


From sdahlbacSPAMSUCKS at abo.fi  Wed Apr 28 17:21:09 2004
From: sdahlbacSPAMSUCKS at abo.fi (Simon Dahlbacka)
Date: Thu, 29 Apr 2004 00:21:09 +0300
Subject: wxpython + py2exe + innosetup
In-Reply-To: <mailman.94.1083179572.25742.python-list@python.org>
References: <408eca0c$1@newsflash.abo.fi>	<30260531.0404272030.3fe52362@posting.google.com>	<ab4c5633.0404280346.19520bbc@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.94.1083179572.25742.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <40902053@newsflash.abo.fi>

Thomas Heller wrote:

> sdahlbac at abo.fi (Simon Dahlbacka) writes:
> 
> 
>>simoninusa2001 at yahoo.co.uk (simo) wrote in message news:<30260531.0404272030.3fe52362 at posting.google.com>...
>>
>>>"Simon Dahlbacka" <sdahlbacSPAMSUX at abo.fi> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>I'm "exefying" an application that uses wxpython, some com to control excel
>>>>and word and want to distribute this application.
>>>>
>>>>after creating the executable with py2exe, it still works fine (at least on
>>>>my development machine), however, if I create an installer package with
>>>>innosetup, install it and try to run it, I get a busy cursor for a split
>>>>second and then.. nothing. no errors no traceback no nothing.. viewing
>>>>dependencies does not reveal anything strange, and running the installed
>>>>program in a debugger just tells that the application has exited with code
>>>>0.
> 
> 
>>another strange thing is that I tried to sprinkle "print I got here
>>statements" all over the place, but didn't see any of those, even
>>running from a console.
> 
> 
> If you build it as windows program (not console), sys.stderr is
> redirected to a logfile, and sys.stdout is redirected into the eternal
> bitsink.  This is to prevent IO errors in your debug print statements,
> or when tracebacks are printed.  The code which does this is in
> py2exe/boot_common.py for your inspection and/or improvements.
> 
> You can also override this default behaviour by assigning your own
> objects to sys.stdout and sys.stderr.
> 
> Unfortunately, this very code in py2exe 0.5.0 has a bug, which will be
> triggered when the sys module is *not* imported in your main script (the
> 'sys' symbol is deleted too early in boot_common.py).
> 
> So, it could be that your program tries to report something, and then
> 'crashes' (meaning: fails to initialize).
> 
> I will release py2exe 0.5.1 later this week, which should have fixed
> this and other bugs ;-).
> 
> 
> What I usually do to find out why a program behaves strange, is to build
> both a console *and* a windows version (with different names, say
> app_c.exe and app.exe).  Then, you can (even on the target machine) run
> the console version to see the debug prints, and after you have found
> and fixed potential problems, run the windows version and delete the
> console version again.  Or you simply don't create a shortcut for the
> console version.

hmm, I added a bogus "import sys"

and removed zipfile="lib\common.zip" from the setup script, which seemed 
to generate strange results, py2exe generated lib\shared.zip and 
installing * from that directory _somehow_ produced lib\common.zip in 
the install dir (I have absolutely NO clue..), removing that line 
produces all files in the same directory, which SEEM to work after the 
little testing I have done, (except the no codecs found, which can be 
solved by adding encodings, OTOH, I cannot get Mark's solution (from 
py2exe wiki) to work with 'encodings', 'encodings.latin_1' to just get 
latin-1 encodings. I'm probably just too stupid to get it or something..

/Simon


From johnbunderwood at yahoo.ca  Wed Apr  7 08:38:27 2004
From: johnbunderwood at yahoo.ca (John Underwood)
Date: Wed, 07 Apr 2004 08:38:27 -0400
Subject: Using python23 to develop an extension for an application that
	has python22 embedded
References: <aoa370h2r58lgb00jn9o1nfpg2titdgoss@4ax.com>
	<1073eeubflmchd5@corp.supernews.com>
	<o2g3709fpgp50sn561h0vf5e2dd6hcuo7g@4ax.com>
	<mailman.390.1081257203.20120.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <nft77091mv2g7cagcvqn73nlrdo8k1ea32@4ax.com>

On Tue, 6 Apr 2004 22:02:49 +1000 (EST), Andrew MacIntyre
<andymac at bullseye.apana.org.au> wrote:

>On Mon, 5 Apr 2004, John Underwood wrote:
>
>> Since I do have python23.dll and python23_d.dll (from a successful
>> build of 2.3), can I use these to develop an extension for the
>> aforementioned commercial application if I stay away from any new
>> features in 2.3 (but not in 2.2)?
>
>You can do the development, but you won't be able to directly distribute
>the resulting extension because it will have been linked with python23.dll
>when it needs to be linked with python22.dll.
>
>To make things easier to fudge later, you make sure that your extension is
>Distutils'ified from the beginning.
>
>You can then use another compiler supported by the Distutils (MS CL
>non-optimising compiler, MinGW, Borland etc) to build the distributable
>extension in either a Python 2.2 or 2.3 installation, without risking
>mixing C runtime library mismatches (VS.NET uses a different CRT than
>VS6 I understand).  If using a 2.3 installation, you'll need to substitute
>a 2.2 import library when building the final distributable version.
>
>The Distutils setup.py script can then provide the installation harness.

Thanks for the advice. I have a Borland compiler that I'll try with
Disutils.



From __peter__ at web.de  Thu Apr 29 12:31:01 2004
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Thu, 29 Apr 2004 18:31:01 +0200
Subject: Generic constructors and duplication of internal Python logic
References: <87ekqq41ya.fsf@pobox.com> <c5lfi6$cit$00$1@news.t-online.com>
	<87oepnzlbp.fsf@pobox.com> <c62kqc$glm$07$1@news.t-online.com>
	<87k707elth.fsf@pobox.com> <c6ai7t$o2c$03$1@news.t-online.com>
	<c6alei$hv4$05$1@news.t-online.com> <87smetxjjj.fsf@pobox.com>
Message-ID: <c6rak5$ptf$04$2@news.t-online.com>

John J. Lee wrote:

>> Peter Otten wrote:

>> def setLocals(d, selfName="self"):
>>     self = d.pop(selfName)
>>     for n, v in d.iteritems():
>>         setattr(self, n, v)
>> 
>> class Demo(object):
>>     def __init__(self, foo, bar, baz=2, bang=3):
>>         setLocals(locals())
> 
> Perfect!  About a hundred times better than my solution.  Maybe this
> should be a Python Cookbook entry?

Did that:

http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Cookbook/Python/Recipe/280381

Peter


From mk at net.mail.penguinista  Thu Apr  8 07:16:53 2004
From: mk at net.mail.penguinista (=?UTF-8?B?0LTQsNC80ZjQsNC9INCzLg==?=)
Date: Thu, 08 Apr 2004 13:16:53 +0200
Subject: My firefox script
References: <pan.2004.04.07.19.25.50.370942@yahoo.com.au>
Message-ID: <407534a5@news.mt.net.mk>



> Hi. I use mozilla firefox on linux. It's a great browser, but the *nix
> version has an annoying problem, that it won't let you open a new
> instance from the desktop if the browser is already running.

search freshmeat.net for "MSS"


-- 
??????                                  (jabberID:damjan at bagra.net.mk)

                Where do you think you're going today?


From peter at engcorp.com  Thu Apr  8 09:37:10 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Thu, 08 Apr 2004 09:37:10 -0400
Subject: Customizing the python search path depending on source directory
In-Reply-To: <5cf809e9.0404071734.26f1078a@posting.google.com>
References: <5cf809e9.0404061853.41cd3c85@posting.google.com>
	<BbudnT8dYIUS8u7dRVn-vw@powergate.ca>
	<5cf809e9.0404070452.643b7053@posting.google.com>
	<hsWdncv_b86aY-7d4p2dnA@powergate.ca>
	<5cf809e9.0404071734.26f1078a@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <4dudnVzbRvwbyOjdRVn-sw@powergate.ca>

Peter Schwalm wrote:

> Does the output look different if you run these programs in your
> environment?

It may take me a moment to get the precise same configuration
on my machine, because I don't have it set up to execute
.py scripts automatically at the command line just by typing
their names.  I have to manually invoke "python" and pass it
the name of the script.

Therefore, before I do this (I need to learn how, first),
can you confirm that you get identical results if in each
place where you typed "test1.py" you instead typed the
equivalent with, for example, "python test1.py"?

It's possible Windows' technique for directly invoking
scripts your way screws up the sys.path stuff...

(I _am_ using "stock" Python 2.3.3 on XP, by the way.  I
doubt ActiveState's behaves any different in this respect.)

-Peter


From jcm at FreeBSD-uk.eu.org  Tue Apr 27 09:52:07 2004
From: jcm at FreeBSD-uk.eu.org (Jonathon McKitrick)
Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2004 14:52:07 +0100
Subject: Problem binding <Up> and <Down> events
Message-ID: <20040427135207.GA5359@dogma.freebsd-uk.eu.org>


I have a listbox with <Double-Button-1> bound to bring up an edit dialog.
But <Up> and <Down> do not work.  I have a debug print statement, and the
program never reaches the event handler.  I've tried handlers with 'event'
arguments and with no arguments, but neither works.

Is there something I am missing here?

jm
-- 
My other computer is your Windows box.



From SeeBelow at SeeBelow.Nut  Tue Apr 13 15:25:29 2004
From: SeeBelow at SeeBelow.Nut (SeeBelow at SeeBelow.Nut)
Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2004 19:25:29 GMT
Subject: Very Interesting Project for Python Person
Message-ID: <407C3EC6.46EF0BC5@shaw.ca>

This is part of an open source project at SourceForge.  The Python
program would have to call some methods that were compiled from C source
code.

We need someone to add graphics & GUI to an existing C program. The main
program, graphics & GUI would be python/tKinter.  The
graphics would show the path of a virtual sailboat, which has a robot at
the helm. The robot is actually an Artificial Neural Network (ANN). We
use neuroevolution to discover a competent ANN yachtsman.  

Visit the URL below to learn more; especially the sourceforge link.

Mitchell Timin
 
-- 
"Many are stubborn in pursuit of the path they have chosen, few in
pursuit of the goal." - Friedrich Nietzsche

http://annevolve.sourceforge.net is what I'm into nowadays.
Humans may write to me at this address: zenguy at shaw dot ca


From stach at fr.pl  Fri Apr 16 08:00:08 2004
From: stach at fr.pl (Krzysztof Stachlewski)
Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2004 14:00:08 +0200
Subject: md5.hexdigest() converting unicode string to ascii
References: <77b925de.0404151450.5c1f720a@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <c5ohp8$fqf$1@absinth.dialog.net.pl>

"uebertester" <mgibson at tripwire.com> wrote in message
news:77b925de.0404151450.5c1f720a at posting.google.com...
> I'm trying to get a MD5 hash of a registry key value on Windows 2000
> Server.  The registry value is a string which is stored as a unicode
> string.  I can get the registry key value and pass it to md5 via
> update(), however, hexdigest() returns a hash value for the ascii
> equivalent of the unicode string.  Not the hash of the unicode string
> itself.  I've verified this by creating a text file containing an
> ascii form of the string and one containing a unicode form of the
> string.  The hash returned by md5.hexdigest() matches that when I run
> md5sum on the ascii file.

The md5() function is defined on character strings
not on unicode strings. An unicode string is a sequence
of integers. Such sequence may be converted to a character
string, but there are many different methods of doing that.
In Python you convert an unicode string to a character
string by using encoding of your choice.
For instance:
u"abcd".encode("utf-16")
utf-16 is just an example - you have to decide which
encoding to choose.

Stach



From martin at v.loewis.de  Mon Apr 19 01:29:02 2004
From: martin at v.loewis.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?=22Martin_v=2E_L=F6wis=22?=)
Date: Mon, 19 Apr 2004 07:29:02 +0200
Subject: using a USB HID device
In-Reply-To: <mailman.746.1082320568.20120.python-list@python.org>
References: <40827ce3.1151345337@news.xs4all.nl>	<c5ufh6$rok$02$1@news.t-online.com>	<4082e29d.1177387563@news.xs4all.nl>
	<mailman.746.1082320568.20120.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <c5vo2p$ed6$02$1@news.t-online.com>

Jeff Epler wrote:
> libusb is portable to Linux, BSD including OS X, and Windows.
> I don't know of a Python wrapper, however, and my experience using
> libusb on windows is limited.
> 
> http://libusb.sf.net
> http://libusb-win32.sf.net/

It looks like libusb, on Windows, installs its own kernel driver,
which generates devices named \\.\libusb*. So this is not exactly
a pure-python solution :-)

OTOH, it may well be that USB devices, on Windows, cannot be
accessed purely from user mode, and that you always need some
sort of kernel driver.

Regards,
Martin



From alex.garel at free.fr  Fri Apr  9 17:54:02 2004
From: alex.garel at free.fr (Alex Garel)
Date: Fri, 09 Apr 2004 23:54:02 +0200
Subject: how to know who calls a method
Message-ID: <40771b75$0$15656$626a14ce@news.free.fr>

Hello,
Maybe it's a strange question.
I heard that salltalk use messages that are sent from one object to another.
It seems in other OO languages, method call is quite an implementation 
of that. The only thing is, the receiver (instance which method is being 
called) can't retrieve reference of the sender. Is it possible in Python 
? Is there a standard way or a workaround.
I think about using frame stack (in module inspect) but it only gives me 
the name of the function from which I was called, not a reference to the 
object.
Why am I asking for such a feature ?
It is because I would like an object to be aware of another object 
reading it so it can signal future change in its value to the last. I 
can use a getter which precise who is the reader but my attempt was to 
be able to use a normal getter (x=y)  in a Phytonic fashion !


From alloydflanagan at comcast.net  Wed Apr  7 18:26:15 2004
From: alloydflanagan at comcast.net (A. Lloyd Flanagan)
Date: 7 Apr 2004 15:26:15 -0700
Subject: Does Python compete with Java?
References: <8b336527.0404051337.51bb4a1b@posting.google.com>
	<c4taac$2lg0bc$1@ID-169208.news.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <e838aa6e.0404071426.7192e8e4@posting.google.com>

Greg Ewing <greg at cosc.canterbury.ac.nz> wrote in message news:<c4taac$2lg0bc$1 at ID-169208.news.uni-berlin.de>...
> 
> I think it's a *good* thing. Python is succeeding very well
> by just existing and actually being well designed and useful,
> as opposed to having a large company's marketing machine trying
> to tell everyone that it is.
> 

Very true.  In addition, I think python will gain a lot of
"mind-share" as more and more popular applications are written in
python.


From mgerrans at mindspring.com  Sat Apr 10 03:28:32 2004
From: mgerrans at mindspring.com (Matt Gerrans)
Date: Sat, 10 Apr 2004 07:28:32 GMT
Subject: Parsing cmd line args problem
References: <1081555827.877735@jubilee.esoterica.pt>
	<1081566459.617750@jubilee.esoterica.pt>
Message-ID: <AmNdc.4142$A_4.858@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>

"Paulo da Silva" wrote:
> I got it to work! Is there a better way?

Yup.  If you're using Python 2.3, then check out the optparse module, if an
older vesion, getopt.

I didn't like getopt that well, so slapped together something that allowed
me to access options in a script like this:

from options import opts,env,anyopt,params

if opt.verbose:
   print 'starting'

if opt.logfile:
   logfilename = opt.logfile

debug = anyopt.debug

if debug:
   print 'Running under %s's account...' % env.username

for param in params:
   dostuff(param)

# ... etc.

If an option was specified on the command line as "/o" then opt.o will be
True.   If an option was specified as "/log:test.log" then opt.log will be
"test.log".    env gives the same shortcut for environment variables and
anyopt gives a combo of the two (so if you specify /debug, or set the debug
environment variable it is turned on).    params are what remain on the
command line after removing argv[0] and all items prefixed with '/' or '-'.

The idea was to get consistent command line handling that was very quick and
easy to use.   I still like this for quick and simple scripts.   The
weakness is that it is more dynamic, so it doesn't do nifty things like
optparse, where it automatically displays command line syntax.

- Matt

FYI, below is my options.py, but you should probably learn the optparse
module, if you're on Python 2.3:

"""
Three handy instances options classes are contained herein:

1) opts     - Command line options.
2) env      - Environment 'options'.
3) anyopt   - Either command line or environment options (command line
              options).
4) params   - List of non-option command line paramters.

"""

import os,sys
from glob import glob

# These are the non-option parameters (like filenames, etc.):
params = filter(lambda a:a[0] not in '-/', sys.argv[1:])

#---------------------------------------------------------------------
#                      FindCommandLineOption()
#
#---------------------------------------------------------------------
def FindCommandLineOption( opt, caseSensitive = 0 ):
   """Finds simple (/s) and parameterized (/f:file.ext) options.
      Returns 1 if a simple option is found, returns the
      value of an option that specifies on (eg. /f:filename.ext returns
      filename.ext'.  If None is specified, it returns 1 if no parameters
      were specified."""
   result = 0
   import sys
   import string
   if caseSensitive:
      case = lambda s: s
   else:
      case = string.lower

   if opt == None:   # Special case for None; if none, then we want to
      if len(sys.argv) == 1:  # check whether there were no parameters.
         result = 1
   else:
      for i in sys.argv[1:]:
         if i[0] == '-' or i[0] == '/':
            curOpt = i[1:]
            if case(opt) == case(curOpt):
               result = 1
            elif ':' in curOpt:
               parts = string.split(curOpt,':')
               if case(opt) == case(parts[0]):
                  result = string.join(parts[1:],':') # put together the
rest of the parts
   return result

class CommandLineOptions(object):
   """Like the EnvironmentVariables object, this object gives you a clean
      and simple interface to the command line options.

      Here is how you would check for the /v (or -v) option on the
      command line:

      opts = CommandLineOptions()
      if opts.v:
         print 'You chose the verbose option!'

      And here is how you would get a file specified by /f:filename:
      if opts.f:
         if os.path.isfile(opts.f):
            filename = opts.f
         else:
            print "Who you kiddin'?  %s is not a valid file!" % opts.f
   """
   def __getattr__(self, name):
      if name == 'help' and FindCommandLineOption('?'):
         return FindCommandLineOption('?')
      return FindCommandLineOption(name)
   def __getitem__(self,name):
      return self.__getattr__(name)

opts = CommandLineOptions()

#---------------------------------------------------------------------
#                           EnvironmentVariables
#
# Need to either inject them into the current scope, or create an object
# which has a member for each var.   I like the latter, as it is cleaner,
# and will avoid hosing locals by using its own namespace.
#---------------------------------------------------------------------
class EnvironmentVariables(object):
   def x__init__(self):
      import os
      import string
      for x in os.environ.keys():
         name = string.lower( string.join(string.split(x)) )
         exec( "self." + name + "='" + os.environ[x] + "'" )
   def __getattr__(self, name):
      if os.environ.has_key(name):
         return os.environ[name]
      else:
         name = name.replace('_',' ')
         return os.environ.get(name,'')
   def __getitem__( self, key ):
      return os.environ.get(key,'')

env = EnvironmentVariables()

#---------------------------------------------------------------------
#                              AnyOption
#
# Culls options from the command line and the environment variables.
#---------------------------------------------------------------------
class AnyOption(object):
   def __getattr__(self, name):
      result = opts.__getattr__(name)
      if not result: result = env.__getattr__(name)
      return result
   def __getitem__( self, key ):
      'Allows dictionary syntax'
      result = opts[key]
      if not result: result = env[key]
      return result

anyopt = AnyOption()

#--------------------------------------------------------------------------
#                                 ArgFiles()
#
# Gets all the files specified on the command line, via wildcards.   Also
# looks for the /r or /s option, then does a recursive collecting of them.
#
# It would be a little cleaner if this were a variable, like the others,
# instead of a function, but the possibility of a mosterous task resulting
# from an innocent command line (eg. "MyProg c:\\*.*' /s") precludes that.
# So, this is a generator, allowing the caller not to get stuck in a
# long-waiting no-status display situation.
#--------------------------------------------------------------------------
def ArgFiles(args=None):
   files = []
   if args == None: args = params
   for filespec in args:
      if filespec[0] == '/': continue
      if opts.r or opts.s:
         startdir,spec = os.path.split(filespec)
         for d,subdir,files in os.walk(startdir):
            for f in glob( os.path.join( d, spec ) ):
               yield f
      else:
         for f in glob(filespec):
            yield f




From bjornhb3 at yahoo.se  Sat Apr  3 09:33:05 2004
From: bjornhb3 at yahoo.se (Bjorn Heimir Bjornsson)
Date: Sat, 3 Apr 2004 14:33:05 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Verifying temporal properties. Need problems.
References: <68771ca.0404010839.39b0c24f@posting.google.com>
	<c4jrm2$7n7$1@arcturus.ciril.fr>
Message-ID: <Xns94C0A74C3C673bjornhb3yahoose@193.10.250.152>

Hello Loic
I'm working with control flow only, generating pushdown systems from the
AST that are then checked with the model checker Moped (using LTL
properties).
A similar approach was taken for JavaCard
(http://www.sics.se/fdt/vericode/jcave.html). 
I chose Python for fun, but at the moment support just a limited subset.
I'm unsure how far I will/can go. E.g. some dynamic stuff can't be analysed 
statically. I also just ignore all data flow, which simplifies everything but 
means I will not recognise all control flow correctly. 
I checked some small non-python-specific problems, but experience of others 
suggest that the aproach scales quite well. 
This is an MSc thesis, I haven't published anything else. 
Bjorn


From rick.ratzel at magma-da.com  Tue Apr 20 01:27:41 2004
From: rick.ratzel at magma-da.com (Rick L. Ratzel)
Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 05:27:41 GMT
Subject: Getting output from embedded python program
References: <2aa196bb.0404190554.74631058@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <4084B179.6020807@magma-da.com>

Kim wrote:
> Hi everyone,
> I'm writing a embeded python program, and I want to evaluate some
> expression by calling function:
> 
> PyRun_SimpleString("print 'hello'")
> 
> I don't want to output it to stdout but putting it into string somehow
> sothat I can process it.
> 

    Here is a way to get the result of a Python expression eval from C 
(derived from example at 
http://elmer.sourceforge.net/PyCon04/elmer_pycon04.html ) ...obviously, 
if you evaluate a print statement, you will still get output on stdout 
though:

...
PyObject* evalModule;
PyObject* evalDict;
PyObject* evalVal;
char* retString;

PyRun_SimpleString( "result = 'foo' + 'bar'" )

evalModule = PyImport_AddModule( (char*)"__main__" );
evalDict = PyModule_GetDict( evalModule );
evalVal = PyDict_GetItemString( evalDict, "result" );

if( evalVal == NULL ) {
     PyErr_Print();
     exit( 1 );

} else {
     /*
      * PyString_AsString returns char* repr of PyObject, which should
      * not be modified in any way...this should probably be copied for
      * safety
      */
     retString = PyString_AsString( evalVal );
}
...

    In this case, you need to know that the expression will evaluate to 
a string result in order to call PyString_AsString().  If you don't know 
this, you will have to check the type of the PyObject first.





From rpgnmets at aol.com  Wed Apr 21 21:52:07 2004
From: rpgnmets at aol.com (Rob Renaud)
Date: 21 Apr 2004 18:52:07 -0700
Subject: This is very simple question
References: <b0457a31.0404210754.2a34b6be@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.843.1082564447.20120.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3759308d.0404211752.225ef92a@posting.google.com>

"Fredrik Lundh" <fredrik at pythonware.com> wrote in message news:<mailman.843.1082564447.20120.python-list at python.org>...
> but a lousy subject.
> 
> "Eric" <ekoome at yahoo.com> wrote;
> 
> > I would want to obtain a list of factors (multiples of 2) given a
> > prime number in python.
> >
> > For example 13=[8,4,1], 5=[4,1], 7=[4,2,1], 15=[8,4,2,1]
>  
> >>> 8*4*1
> 32
> 
> > I would appreciate a fuction which would do this.
> 
> def func(x): return [2**i for i in range(3,0,-1) if x & 2**i]
> 
> </F>

The code is buggy, it won't work for odd numbers...

>>> func(5)
[4]

>>> def func(x): return [2**i for i in range(3,-1,-1) if x & 2**i]
... 
>>> func(5)
[4, 1]

But this still leaves us with numbers which are too big.

>>> func(243)
[2, 1]

So this should take care of it...

>>> def func(x): return [2**i for i in
range(int(math.log(x)/math.log(2)),-1,-1) if x & 2**i]

>>> func(323421234)
[268435456, 33554432, 16777216, 4194304, 262144, 131072, 65536, 1024,
32, 16, 2]
>>> sum(func(323421234))
323421234


From michele.simionato at poste.it  Wed Apr 28 10:37:12 2004
From: michele.simionato at poste.it (Michele Simionato)
Date: 28 Apr 2004 07:37:12 -0700
Subject: Why we will use obj$func() often
References: <d2Uhc.22272$dZ1.1600@fed1read04> <40887145.789A2FE8@alcyone.com>
	<7cki80hj976bia36lhf9er97v073o1pqvm@4ax.com>
	<w8dic.28710$dZ1.11206@fed1read04> <ulXiAls/KH1K089yn@the-wire.com>
	<lkfic.29767$dZ1.17301@fed1read04>
	<donn-66132E.15345723042004@nntp3.u.washington.edu>
	<PLhic.30493$dZ1.22063@fed1read04>
	<c6huj3$c3s3f$1@ID-169208.news.uni-berlin.de>
	<u8zjc.7394$Qy.127@fed1read04>
	<c6ni3j$e0vbb$1@ID-169208.news.uni-berlin.de>
	<5vJjc.13116$Qy.1954@fed1read04>
Message-ID: <95aa1afa.0404280637.595046e8@posting.google.com>

"Mark Hahn" <mark at prothon.org> wrote in message news:<5vJjc.13116$Qy.1954 at fed1read04>...
> I feel strongly that the Python mixture of declaration (global), default
> (where assigned) and broken (closures) is broken overall and has to be fixed
> in Prothon.  I take this as a given.  So I see these possible solutions:
> 
> 1) My Ruby-like symbols, which I think are readable and fast-compilable.
> 
> 2) Word-like symbols, which are large, less readable (too me) and
> cluttering.
> 
> 3) Declarations, which cause the compiler and user to look around and are
> not Pythonic.
> 
> Am I missing any other solutions?

You can use a different assignement syntax for outer scope variables;
for instance in Scheme there is "set!" which can do that.
BTW, I do not think the ability to have read-write closures is that
useful in an OOP language; just use objects. I would ignore this
"issue". OTOH, I do agree that Python scope rules are not 100%
perfect,
but I would content myself with changing the rule for "for" loops (see
http://groups.google.it/groups?hl=it&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&threadm=95aa1afa.0402272327.29828430%40posting.google.com&rnum=1&prev=/groups%3Fhl%3Dit%26lr%3D%26ie%3DUTF-8%26oe%3DUTF-8%26q%3Dsimionato%2Bscope%2Brules%26btnG%3DCerca%26meta%3Dgroup%253Dcomp.lang.python.*)

  Michele Simionato


From t-meyer at ihug.co.nz  Thu Apr 29 19:36:54 2004
From: t-meyer at ihug.co.nz (Tony Meyer)
Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2004 11:36:54 +1200
Subject: MATLAB2Python
In-Reply-To: <1ED4ECF91CDED24C8D012BCF2B034F13060E4F12@its-xchg4.massey.ac.nz>
Message-ID: <1ED4ECF91CDED24C8D012BCF2B034F1304677D10@its-xchg4.massey.ac.nz>

> An indication that Python takes the interests of beginning 
> programmers more seriously than those of experienced 
> scientific programmers is that integer division is going to 
> be redefined in future versions of the language -- 2/3 = 1 
> now but will equal 1.5 in the future. (I think you are 
> supposed to use 2//3).

This is almost right :)

>>> 2/3
0
>>> 2//3
0
>>> from __future__ import division
>>> 2/3
0.66666666666666663
>>> 2//3
0

I think maybe 3/2 or 3//2 was the intent :)

=Tony Meyer




From jacek.generowicz at cern.ch  Mon Apr  5 04:18:30 2004
From: jacek.generowicz at cern.ch (Jacek Generowicz)
Date: 05 Apr 2004 10:18:30 +0200
Subject: Python is faster than C
References: <406F0907.96F37EA1@tunes.org>
	<c4n9qf$jgq$1@news-reader4.wanadoo.fr>
	<c4nctk$pp3$3@news.service.uci.edu>
	<c4ouri$9kf$1@news-reader2.wanadoo.fr>
Message-ID: <tyfd66mzvl5.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>

"Michel Claveau/Hamster" <No.Spam.mc at No.Spam.mclaveau.No.Spam.com> writes:

> Yes, but Psyco is writted in C & Python, and it use an C module.
> Said "Psyco is faster than C", it's like said "Psyco is faster than Psyco".

You appear to be missing the point completely.

The language used to implement the tools you use is irrelevant. What
is important is the language in which you are programming.

Armin's point is that (in certain circumstances) you can achieve a
significant speedup by one of two ways

- Recode some Python code in C

- import psyco; psyco.full()

Note: in the second case, this is _all_[*] you have to do; it takes
about 2 seconds of work. In the first case it take many
hours/days/weeks of tedious and error-prone work.


The point is: Why code in C when you can get just as good program
speed performance by coding in Python.

Put another way: Why code in a low-level, tedious, rigid,
error-inducing language, when you can get just as good program speed
performance by writing in a high-level, flexible, dynamic, pleasant
language.



[*] Yes, I'm deliberately keeping things simple in order not to draw
    attention away from the real point.


From bucknuggets at yahoo.com  Sun Apr  4 14:39:09 2004
From: bucknuggets at yahoo.com (Buck Nuggets)
Date: 4 Apr 2004 11:39:09 -0700
Subject: IBM Developerworks: Learn how to write DB2 JDBC tools in Jython
References: <3ea34487.0404031654.596cbd06@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <66a61715.0404041039.2972d92b@posting.google.com>

workingdudetor at yahoo.com (Neo) wrote in message news:<3ea34487.0404031654.596cbd06 at posting.google.com>...
> Java Libraries + Python Syntax 
> 
> 
> ttp://www-106.ibm.com/developerworks/db2/library/techarticle/dm-0404yang/index.html

It's always nice to see more support for agile languages with db2.  I
know that there's a ton of support for java, but frankly I'm far more
interested in seeing db2 for fast-moving tiger-teams than for
slow-moving and massive projects.  With that in mind great support for
python, ruby, php, perl, etc is essential.

ks


From dietmar at schwertberger.de  Mon Apr 19 16:04:02 2004
From: dietmar at schwertberger.de (Dietmar Schwertberger)
Date: Mon, 19 Apr 2004 22:04:02 +0200
Subject: MS Project (XML-) file generation
Message-ID: <ant1920020b02%2U@schwertberger.freenet.de>

Hi!

I would like a Webware server to deliver MS Project compatible files for
download.

Of course I could create files using COM automatisation. For reliability
reasons I would prefer not to run an application like Microsoft Project on
the server. I think it would be the best to create an XML file.

Basically it should be quite simple:
 - save an empty project file as XML
 - load this using e.g. minidom
 - add a node for each task (name, start date, duration)
 - link the nodes for linked tasks
Did anybody do this before? Are there any examples for download (either
Project or Word, Excel,...).

(My experience with MS Project as well with XML is almost zero.)



Regards,

Dietmar



From ramen at lackingtalent.com  Tue Apr  6 15:54:47 2004
From: ramen at lackingtalent.com (Dave Benjamin)
Date: Tue, 06 Apr 2004 19:54:47 -0000
Subject: Compact Python library for math statistics
References: <E1B9LoV-0005OQ-00@fatlady.ukr.net>
	<mailman.267.1080904644.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<c3835e5f.0404051841.2812a40d@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <slrnc763cf.ql1.ramen@lackingtalent.com>

In article <c3835e5f.0404051841.2812a40d at posting.google.com>, Chris Fonnesbeck wrote:
> Gerrit <gerrit at nl.linux.org> wrote in message news:<mailman.267.1080904644.20120.python-list at python.org>...
>> wrote:
>> > I'm looking for a Python library for math statistics. This must be a cl
>> ear set of general statistics functions like 'average', 'variance', 'cova
>> riance' etc.
>> 
>> The next version of Python will have a 'statistics' module. It is
>> probably usable in Python 2.3 as well. You can find it in CVS:
>> 
>> http://cvs.sourceforge.net/viewcvs.py/*checkout*/python/python/nondist/sa
>> ndbox/statistics/statistics.py
>> 
>> I'm not sure whether it's usable in current CVS, though. You may have to
>> tweak it a little.
> 
> I'm hoping there will be more functions added to this module (e.g.
> median, quantiles, skewness, kurtosis). It wouldnt take much to
> include at least the basic summary stats. I would be more than happy
> to contribute.

I'd really like to see linear regression in the Python stats module. I've
used the one from stats.py successfully - this may be a good source of
ideas, too:

http://www.nmr.mgh.harvard.edu/Neural_Systems_Group/gary/python.html

(see stats.py)
(apologies if this has already been pointed out somewhere)

-- 
.:[ dave benjamin: ramen/[sp00] -:- spoomusic.com -:- ramenfest.com ]:.
:  please talk to your son or daughter about parametric polymorphism. :


From dmq at gain.com  Fri Apr 23 13:45:00 2004
From: dmq at gain.com (David MacQuigg)
Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2004 10:45:00 -0700
Subject: Why we will use obj$func() often
References: <d2Uhc.22272$dZ1.1600@fed1read04> <84Uhc.22278$dZ1.5087@fed1read04>
	<mailman.927.1082665370.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<8AWhc.23114$dZ1.11070@fed1read04> <40883BFE.B381518A@alcyone.com>
	<27_hc.23801$dZ1.2716@fed1read04> <40887145.789A2FE8@alcyone.com>
Message-ID: <7cki80hj976bia36lhf9er97v073o1pqvm@4ax.com>

On Thu, 22 Apr 2004 18:28:37 -0700, Erik Max Francis <max at alcyone.com>
wrote:

>Mark Hahn wrote:
>
>> Well, I do tend to exaggerate a bit.  I can understand it when I study
>> it,
>> but in everyday coding it does not roll off my fingers.  Also, it is
>> possible to design something new without understanding the old.
>
>It is _possible_.  But it is not a very good idea.
>
>> I am serious when I say I think that Python has headed off into
>> egghead land
>> a bit and I feel that keeps a lot of people from switching to it.  I
>> think
>> that this heady stuff scares them off.  I really am trying to make
>> things
>> simpler in Prothon.  Now, whether I can succeed or not is another
>> question.
>> Only time will tell.
>
>Other than the basic premise of Prothon, every single decision I've seen
>you make (or consider) looks wholly stylistic, awkward or even arcane,
>and the opposite of the one I, or I think Guido, would have chosen. 
>Being a fan of Io, I think prototype-languages are interesting.  Even so
>far, I lost interest in looking at the actual main feature of Prothon,
>after seeing all the extra baggage that was brought on in unecessary
>stylistic changes.
>
>Seriously considering every single possible proposal is not
>constructive.  Without a strong sense of what the language should look
>like, Prothon is going to continue to look more and more like Perl. 
>It's already most of the way there.

Mark: """ 
   Please hold off your ad hominem attacks until the product is
   designed, thank you very much. """

I would take this as constructive criticism, not an ad-hominem attack.

-- Perl-like syntax:
Special symbols and capitalization to indicate variable scope,
closures, dynamic variables, etc.   
   local, Global, .x, ^x, X, &x, x, @x

Adding syntax or making changes just because it allows you to do
something that can't be done in Python is not good. We have to look at
*use cases* for these features and compare them to a well-written
Python equivalent.  Then, we can see if the benefit is worth the extra
syntax.  We spend far to much time debating syntax without a clear
benefit in mind.  Show us a nice closure.

-- Special syntax to indicate binding of functions.  Python solves
this problem neatly, at the expense of some implicitness.
bound_func   = cat1.func  # cat1 is an instance
unbound_func = Cat.func   # Cat is a class
Prothon's insistence on having not a trace of class-like behavior has
opened a can-of-worms.  Iron out the wrinkles on one place and they
pop up in another.

== Benefits of Prothon ==

In spite of these criticisms I do believe Prothon has made a big
contribution in the *simplification* of classes. There are also some
smaller items worth looking at ( break tags, uniform syntax for
mutation!, boolean?, ... )

-- Dave



From FBatista at uniFON.com.ar  Wed Apr 28 09:46:42 2004
From: FBatista at uniFON.com.ar (Batista, Facundo)
Date: Wed, 28 Apr 2004 10:46:42 -0300
Subject: Path ... where is my application's home dir?
Message-ID: <A128D751272CD411BC9200508BC2194D0338391A@escpl.tcp.com.ar>

[Marco Aschwanden]

#- I want to store a file in the application directory. What is 
#- the easiest 
#- way to figure out, where my application is situated?

You don't need that, just save it without a path and it'll fall in your
current directory.

But if you need it for something else:

>>> import os.path
>>> os.path.curdir
'.'
>>> os.path.abspath(os.path.curdir)
'C:\\temp'

.	Facundo





. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
ADVERTENCIA  

La informaci?n contenida en este mensaje y cualquier archivo anexo al mismo,
son para uso exclusivo del destinatario y pueden contener informaci?n
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Si Ud. No es uno de los destinatarios consignados o la persona responsable
de hacer llegar este mensaje a los destinatarios consignados, no est?
autorizado a divulgar, copiar, distribuir o retener informaci?n (o parte de
ella) contenida en este mensaje. Por favor notif?quenos respondiendo al
remitente, borre el mensaje original y borre las copias (impresas o grabadas
en cualquier medio magn?tico) que pueda haber realizado del mismo. 

Todas las opiniones contenidas en este mail son propias del autor del
mensaje y no necesariamente coinciden con las de Telef?nica Comunicaciones
Personales S.A. o alguna empresa asociada. 

Los mensajes electr?nicos pueden ser alterados, motivo por el cual
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From michael at foord.net  Fri Apr  9 03:53:22 2004
From: michael at foord.net (Fuzzyman)
Date: 9 Apr 2004 00:53:22 -0700
Subject: Wrapper round x86 Assembler
Message-ID: <8089854e.0404082353.7bf163a2@posting.google.com>

There might be a really good reason why this hasn't been done *or*
someone might have done it and I just can't find it..... *but*

what about a wrapper to an assembler (presumably for x86 assembly !)
!!
I just wrote some code doing binary operations which would have been
about a zillion times faster in a few lines of assembly code.

I also have fond memories of programming in BBC Basic which had an
inline assembler - so you could wrap your assembly program in Basic.
It meant some commercial games started with Basic !

Anyway - it would be easy to reserve some memory with a string like
object to pass to an 'assembly object' and allow some really nifty
(and fast) stuff ?? For simple algorithms it would be very neat.
Avoiding memory overflow etc would be up to the assembly code 'chunk'
of course.

Regards,


Fuzzy

http://www.voidspace.org.uk/atlantibots/pythonutils.html


From kkto at csis.hku.hk  Fri Apr 30 07:51:25 2004
From: kkto at csis.hku.hk (Isaac To)
Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2004 19:51:25 +0800
Subject: operator double() surprise in cxx
References: <mailman.145.1083293891.25742.python-list@python.org>
	<pan.2004.04.30.05.54.47.953852@ifrance.com>
	<7ivfjh988v.fsf@enark.csis.hku.hk>
	<slrnc94dpu.s4p.jeremy@kaje.cl.cam.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <7iy8od3cqq.fsf@enark.csis.hku.hk>

>>>>> "Jeremy" == Jeremy Yallop <jeremy at jdyallop.freeserve.co.uk> writes:

    Jeremy> As a declaration, it's a zero-length array of Py::Float, with a
    Jeremy> parenthesized declarator, i.e. the same as

    Jeremy> Py::Float rect[0];

Ah right, thanks for pointing that out.

Regards,
Isaac.


From mark at prothon.org  Sat Apr  3 04:16:52 2004
From: mark at prothon.org (Mark Hahn)
Date: Sat, 3 Apr 2004 01:16:52 -0800
Subject: Indent testers needed (Prothon)
References: <Unqbc.131025$cx5.57643@fed1read04>
	<b5rbc.132699$cx5.63133@fed1read04>
	<Xns94C0217D6BF1rzed@63.223.5.95>
	<2Msbc.136673$cx5.2385@fed1read04>
	<c4lsa1$ai6$1@news.service.uci.edu>
Message-ID: <8ivbc.141601$cx5.89434@fed1read04>

But you can do this without rule 3 which is even uglier...

> >>/* loop 2 */
> >>ix = 2
> >>for   \
> >>  item  \
> >>    in      \
> >>      blist  \
> >>        :
> >>          alist[ix] =    \
> >>               alist[         \
> >>          ix                     \
> >>          ]





From rdjdvd at inwind.it  Tue Apr 13 03:27:58 2004
From: rdjdvd at inwind.it (RDJ)
Date: 13 Apr 2004 00:27:58 -0700
Subject: Download pyples-11.tgz (under FreeMindLicense)
Message-ID: <c88425e6.0404122327.7254bddb@posting.google.com>

Pyples - Interactive Python Examples

http://spazioinwind.libero.it/rdjhome


From donn at u.washington.edu  Fri Apr 30 15:38:53 2004
From: donn at u.washington.edu (Donn Cave)
Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2004 12:38:53 -0700
Subject: What is good about Prothon?
References: <bniq80hiib0gauiltuntk9jvia2getbnj4@4ax.com>
	<nxdjc.400$Qy.363@fed1read04>
	<m0ps8092jss5mhpopkbj0a4hg0m0rlppqh@4ax.com>
	<vDvjc.5555$Qy.2995@fed1read04>
	<108t2tlo06j8vb9@corp.supernews.com>
	<hzwjc.6087$Qy.2366@fed1read04>
	<69cbbef2.0404281446.4e0ab52e@posting.google.com>
	<ZHXjc.17225$Qy.13377@fed1read04>
	<69cbbef2.0404291609.72d391db@posting.google.com>
	<Awlkc.36778$Qy.19874@fed1read04>
	<69cbbef2.0404300855.4dce5e5@posting.google.com>
	<CYwkc.44066$Qy.9803@fed1read04>
Message-ID: <donn-F264BC.12385330042004@nntp1.u.washington.edu>

In article <CYwkc.44066$Qy.9803 at fed1read04>,
 "Mark Hahn" <mark at prothon.org> wrote:
> has wrote:
> 
> > But to answer your question directly: no, simply adding a copy()
> > operation (the "trying to please everybody, and ultimately pleasing
> > no-one" strategy) won't make me happy; I have no use for another C++.
> 
> You have a very warped mind.  To say that having Python two-tier object
> construction and Self-like constructs in the same language is C++ is
> ludicrous.

He's saying `language that tries to please everybody [by adding
features like copy instead of doing it right in the first place] == C++'  
He could have a point.  (Is there going to be an optional __copy__
method?)

> You have finally answered a question I have asked several times.  Having
> anything but AS or Self in the language will keep you from being happy.  Now
> that I know where you stand I can quit wasting my time trying to get you to
> help out.
> 
> You keep pitching that you are such a creative artist, but if you were you'd
> be helping find a way to solve the conundrum of merging the Python and Self
> worlds and making positive contributions instead of just throwing stones.

He probably thought they were pearls of wisdom.  Guess you don't
want any more, anyway.

   Donn Cave, donn at u.washington.edu


From moranar at daleclick.com  Tue Apr 20 08:01:11 2004
From: moranar at daleclick.com (Adriano Varoli Piazza)
Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 09:01:11 -0300
Subject: Dollar sign ($) on foriegn keyboards? (prothon)
In-Reply-To: <mk3hc.13895$dZ1.10823@fed1read04>
References: <mk3hc.13895$dZ1.10823@fed1read04>
Message-ID: <200404200901.12209.moranar@daleclick.com>

El Mar 20 Abr 2004 03:22, Mark Hahn escribi?:
> We are considering switching to the dollar sign ($) for self, instead
> of the period ( . ) we are using now in Prothon.  Ruby uses the
> at-sign (@) for self, but our new usage of self also includes
> replacing the period for some attribute references, as in obj$func()
> versus obj.func(), and too many programs treat that as an email
> address and screw it up.  Also the S in the symbol $ reminds one of
> the S in $elf.
>
> Can people from outside the U.S. tell me if typing the dollar sign
> often would be a problem in writing code?  Is it available and
> somewhat easy to type on international keyboards?

Spanish and Latin American QUERTY keyboards: Shift + 4.
-- 
Adriano Varoli Piazza
The Inside Out: http://moranar.com.ar
ICQ: 4410132
MSN: adrianomd at hotmail.com
Claves gpg / pgp en hkp://subkeys.pgp.net



From hans at zephyrfalcon.org  Sat Apr  3 23:38:40 2004
From: hans at zephyrfalcon.org (Hans Nowak)
Date: Sat, 03 Apr 2004 23:38:40 -0500
Subject: Unable to launch IDLE
In-Reply-To: <MOEEIEHMDEKAKOCNFHAOGECCCHAA.samiller@wmis.net>
References: <MOEEIEHMDEKAKOCNFHAOGECCCHAA.samiller@wmis.net>
Message-ID: <406F9150.8080005@zephyrfalcon.org>

Scott Miller wrote:
> I am new to Python (and programming in general).
> 
> I have downloaded and installed the Windows installer version of Python 2.3.
> 
> The Python (Command line) runs fine, but I just get the hour glass for a few
> seconds then it bombs out when I try to run IDLE.
> 
> OS Win2kPro SP4
> 
> Please help me get started :)

Do you have any other application that uses Tcl/Tk?  E.g. Ruby, WordNet, maybe 
even an older version of Python?  Sometimes conflicting Tcl/Tk versions cause 
Python's Tkinter import to fail.

-- 
Hans (hans at zephyrfalcon.org)
http://zephyrfalcon.org/





From detlev at die-offenbachs.de  Fri Apr 30 06:12:56 2004
From: detlev at die-offenbachs.de (Detlev Offenbach)
Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2004 12:12:56 +0200
Subject: pyuic for qtdesigner 3.3
References: <b0mkc.888$Yc.14616@news4.e.nsc.no>
Message-ID: <7dl9m1-973.ln1@stargate.solsys.priv>

Christopher Grinde wrote:

> I've had trubles getting a puic that translates files from qt-designer
> 3.3 Does anyone if there exist one, and if so, where to get it?

pyuic is part of PyQt. The current snapshot releases definitely support
qt-designer 3.3. I don't know this for the 3.11 release.

Detlev
-- 
Detlev Offenbach
detlev at die-offenbachs.de


From http  Thu Apr 15 22:35:48 2004
From: http (Paul Rubin)
Date: 15 Apr 2004 19:35:48 -0700
Subject: Difficulty Finding Python Developers
References: <65cbc3dd.0404140641.3501fde8@posting.google.com>
	<5d83790c.0404150701.605782a7@posting.google.com>
	<roy-A17A1C.12565615042004@reader2.panix.com>
	<7xpta8hqe7.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<roy-A844BA.18263715042004@reader2.panix.com>
	<7xsmf4kbac.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<roy-B8AA1E.21270915042004@reader2.panix.com>
Message-ID: <7x7jwg7ipn.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

Roy Smith <roy at panix.com> writes:
> My assertion was that you can learn enough to do useful work in a 
> weekend.  You're saying that there are situations where you need to know 
> more.  These are not mutually exclusive statements.

They're not, but the discussion was serious production projects.  I
think in order to do one successfully, you need much more than the
ability to "do useful work".  I mean, you can learn to operate a car
with 6 hours of Driver's Ed, but that doesn't make you ready to be a
professional stunt driver.

> You also pointed out that the standard Python library doesn't cover 
> every possible piece of functionality that everybody might ever need.  
> This is obviously a true statement, but it's equally true for Perl, 
> Java, TCL, C, C++, Ruby, Smalltalk, etc.  And it's a good thing, too.  
> If everything that everybody ever wanted had already been written, you 
> and me would be out of a job :-)

I don't know about Tcl, Ruby, or Smalltalk.  I've generally found that
C/C++, Perl, and Java have generally more thorough library coverage
than Python does, and also, the restrictions are more likely to be
documented and there's fewer of those little surprises.  Python may be
sort of a victim of its own success.  It was designed as a lightweight
scripting language, but its designers did such a good job with it that
people started using it for complex projects, and minor oversights and
shortcomings start turning into serious obstacles in those contexts.


From garry at sage.att.com  Mon Apr 12 09:26:22 2004
From: garry at sage.att.com (Garry Hodgson)
Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2004 13:26:22 GMT
Subject: why is python better than eg. smalltalk?? no one has any
	solid arguments! you should all go to church with all that
	religious talk!
In-Reply-To: <roy-5C8DA0.23052910042004@reader1.panix.com>
References: <roy-5C8DA0.23052910042004@reader1.panix.com>
Message-ID: <2004041209261081776382@k2.sage.att.com>

aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz) wrote:

> I found my editor fifteen years ago.  Guess which it is.

i wrote my editor 15 years ago.  still use it everyday.
it's small, fast, minimalist, and does exactly what i want.
i occasionally flirt with more powerful things, but always
end up back with fred.

----
Garry Hodgson, Technology Consultant, AT&T Labs

Be happy for this moment.
This moment is your life.



From mwh at python.net  Mon Apr 26 07:21:56 2004
From: mwh at python.net (Michael Hudson)
Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2004 11:21:56 GMT
Subject: Magic methods in extension types
References: <tyfisfnt2zd.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
Message-ID: <m3isfnm1bg.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk>

Jacek Generowicz <jacek.generowicz at cern.ch> writes:

> I am writing an extension type, and wish to add some magic methods
> which are not catered for by the tp_<whatever> slots (eg tp_init ->
> __init__) in PyTypeObject. My methods seem to work correctly when
> invoked explicitly (eg obj.__iadd__(3)) but the method seems not to be
> associated with the corresponding operator (ie obj += 3 does NOT
> work).
> 
> What am I likely to be doing wrong ?

Not finding the tp_as_number->nb_inplace_add field?

I think *all* magic methods correspond to slots in (or near) the type
object -- it's practically the definition of "magic method"!

Cheers,
mwh

-- 
  I sense much distrust in you.  Distrust leads to cynicism, cynicism
  leads to bitterness, bitterness leads to the Awareness Of True
  Reality which is referred to by those-who-lack-enlightenment as
  "paranoia".  I approve.    -- David P. Murphy, alt.sysadmin.recovery


From wouter at voti.nl  Sun Apr 18 16:19:32 2004
From: wouter at voti.nl (Wouter van Ooijen www.voti.nl)
Date: Sun, 18 Apr 2004 20:19:32 GMT
Subject: using a USB HID device
References: <40827ce3.1151345337@news.xs4all.nl>
	<c5ufh6$rok$02$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <4082e29d.1177387563@news.xs4all.nl>

>> I want to use Python to interface with an USB HID device (not a
>> keyboard or mouse, just something that uses the HID driver to avoid
>> the need for a specific driver). Is this possible in pure Python on
>> Windows, or even better, in a portable way?
>
>What is the Win32 API for such devices?

To be honest, I don't have the faintest idea. I hoped there would be
some abstraction layer (freferrably a portable one) like for serial
ports.


Wouter van Ooijen

-- ------------------------------------
http://www.voti.nl
PICmicro chips, programmers, consulting


From fumanchu at amor.org  Wed Apr  7 16:53:19 2004
From: fumanchu at amor.org (Robert Brewer)
Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2004 13:53:19 -0700
Subject: list comprehensions
Message-ID: <DE1CF2B4FEC4A342BF62B6B2B334601E561FCD@opus.amorhq.net>

Elaine Jackson wrote:
> List comprehensions don't work the way you intuitively expect 
> them to work....
[...]
> Can somebody tell me where to look in the
> documentation to find out about list comprehensions?

http://www.python.org/doc/current/ref/lists.html explains:

"When a list comprehension is supplied, it consists of a single
expression followed by at least one for clause and zero or more for or
if clauses. In this case, the elements of the new list are those that
would be produced by considering each of the for or if clauses a block,
nesting from left to right, and evaluating the expression to produce a
list element each time the innermost block is reached."


FuManChu



From dwelch91 at comcast.net  Mon Apr 26 21:55:11 2004
From: dwelch91 at comcast.net (djw)
Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2004 01:55:11 GMT
Subject: How to read a file from another server?  Newbie
In-Reply-To: <c6k9fh$3t9$1@bagan.srce.hr>
References: <%Oejc.16$ph.9@fed1read07>
	<9ugjc.3709$g31.1370@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net>
	<c6k9fh$3t9$1@bagan.srce.hr>
Message-ID: <34jjc.44391$IW1.2353779@attbi_s52>

Ivan Voras wrote:
> Edward Diener wrote:
> 
>> Sean Berry wrote:
>>
>>> I am trying to read in a file from another server.
>>>
>>> If I try
>>> x = open("servername:/path/to/file", "r")
>>
>>
>>
>> x = open("servername://path/to/file", "r")
> 
> 
> Um, what does this to? What protocol does it use?

I can see how this might work for a Windows server, but wouldn't the 
forward slashes need to be back slashes? And the path to the file would 
have to be a shared drive on the server.

-D


From deetsNOSPAM at web.de  Mon Apr  5 08:05:59 2004
From: deetsNOSPAM at web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Mon, 05 Apr 2004 14:05:59 +0200
Subject: popen2 trouble
References: <c4k0i1$2is7im$1@ID-111250.news.uni-berlin.de>
	<406F2905.C685715F@tunes.org>
Message-ID: <c4ricg$2lcn27$1@ID-111250.news.uni-berlin.de>

> Try using the 'bufsize' optional argument in the call to popen2.  Set it
> to 0 to disable all buffering, if you are writing in large chunks (e.g.
> calling inn.write(bigstring)).

That didn't work - now I'm using pexpect, which simulates a tty.

-- 
Regards,

Diez B. Roggisch


From joewong at mango.cc  Thu Apr  8 06:22:04 2004
From: joewong at mango.cc (Joe Wong)
Date: Thu, 8 Apr 2004 18:22:04 +0800
Subject: performance issue
Message-ID: <01b301c41d53$57089d90$7f00a8c0@scl01.siliconcreation.com>

Hi,
 
 Is there any obvious performance gain between 2.3 and 2.1 release? Is this information available on the web site?

Regards,

- Wong
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From anton at vredegoor.doge.nl  Thu Apr 29 13:11:36 2004
From: anton at vredegoor.doge.nl (Anton Vredegoor)
Date: Thu, 29 Apr 2004 19:11:36 +0200
Subject: outline-style sorting algorithm
References: <mailman.102.1083199976.25742.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <4091398d$0$122$3a628fcd@reader3.nntp.hccnet.nl>

"Delaney, Timothy C (Timothy)" <tdelaney at avaya.com> wrote:

>    foo = sorted(foo, key=lambda x: map(int, x.split('.')))
>    print foo

Generality is also about making as little assumptions about the data
as possible and still provide minimal functionality. For example
dropping the "integer" assumption:

def _cmp(x,y):
    L,R = x.split('.'),y.split('.')
    for a,b in zip(L,R):
        r = cmp(len(a),len(b)) or cmp(a,b)
        if r: 
            return r
    return cmp(len(L),len(R))

def test():
    L = ['1.0', '1.0.1', '1.1.1', '1.2',  '1.10',
        '1.11', '1.20', '1.20.1', '1.30', '1.9']
    L.sort(_cmp)
    print L
    
if __name__=='__main__':
    test()

Anton


From greg at cosc.canterbury.ac.nz  Thu Apr 29 22:27:35 2004
From: greg at cosc.canterbury.ac.nz (Greg Ewing)
Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2004 14:27:35 +1200
Subject: Subclasses in Python
In-Reply-To: <b4a8ffb6.0404291602.4b112acf@posting.google.com>
References: <mailman.114.1083254390.25742.python-list@python.org>
	<b4a8ffb6.0404291602.4b112acf@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <c6sdiq$fk1bl$1@ID-169208.news.uni-berlin.de>

Thomas Philips wrote:
> Perfect! But tell me, how did you know to use __name__? I typed
> dir(object) and dir(Player) in IDLE, and in neither case did __name__
> show up.

Probably it's an oversight on the part of whoever implemented
the dir() method for classes. I guess you just have to find
out things like that by hanging out in c.l.py.:-)

-- 
Greg Ewing, Computer Science Dept,
University of Canterbury,	
Christchurch, New Zealand
http://www.cosc.canterbury.ac.nz/~greg



From pythongnome at hotmail.com  Wed Apr 14 08:10:03 2004
From: pythongnome at hotmail.com (Lucas Raab)
Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2004 12:10:03 GMT
Subject: 3D Graphics Engine
References: <8089854e.0404130639.3eb0db62@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <vS9fc.6643$l75.3593@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net>


"Fuzzyman" <michael at foord.net> wrote in message
news:8089854e.0404130639.3eb0db62 at posting.google.com...
> I've seen various references to 3D graphics engines - and it's a
> little difficult to know where to look.
>
> I would like (in the long run) to be able to create and explore 3d
> worlds - so texture mapping, light sourcing or shading and mesh shapes
> would be nice - but I *don't* need the quality of a commercial game
> system. Collision detection etc would be nice too.
>
> Platform for development (!) is win32 - so I would like an engine with
> precompiled binaries and a documented python binding available. A
> freeware object modeller
>
> So far I've seen :
>
> Crystal Spaces - undocumented python binding, no 'easily' available
> installation package (I can't see it anyway !!)
>
> panda 3d - only accepts 3d objects from a comemrcial app (?)
>
> vpython - very basic !
>
> soya 3d - still unstable (??)
>
> Can anyone reccomend a 3d engine for me to 'muck around with'.
>
> Regards,
>
>
> Fuzzy
>
> http://www.voidspace.org.uk/atlantibots/pythonutils.html

Personally, I like Panda3d. As it's in Python, it's very easy to learn how
to use. Well, let me correct that. It's core is in C++, but you manipulate
it through Python.




From ralf at tecont.de  Tue Apr  6 03:33:06 2004
From: ralf at tecont.de (Ralf Muschall)
Date: Tue, 06 Apr 2004 09:33:06 +0200
Subject: [maybe OT] Making posters
References: <95aa1afa.0404030143.58c32975@posting.google.com>
	<tyfhdvyzway.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
	<95aa1afa.0404050650.2d39b1a5@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <84fzbhlfwt.fsf@tecont.de>

michele.simionato at poste.it (Michele Simionato) writes:

> What I do not understand is if the "scale" operator automatically splits
> the graph in many pages if it becomes too large. Anyway, I have found a way

It doesn't.  If you really want to do it this way, create many copies
of the scaled file and shift the relevant part into the paper using
translate.

The non-sucking method is to use the command poster(1) which comes
with most linux distributions.

Ralf
-- 
GS d->? s:++>+++ a+ C++++ UL+++ UH++ P++ L++ E+++ W- N++ o-- K- w--- !O M- V-
PS+>++ PE Y+>++ PGP+ !t !5 !X !R !tv  b+++ DI+++ D?  G+ e++++ h+ r? y?


From michael at foord.net  Wed Apr 14 15:05:42 2004
From: michael at foord.net (Fuzzyman)
Date: 14 Apr 2004 12:05:42 -0700
Subject: Wrapper round x86 Assembler
References: <8089854e.0404082353.7bf163a2@posting.google.com>
	<4dKdnQlIXMIXIevdRVn-gg@powergate.ca>
	<8089854e.0404100204.504186a0@posting.google.com>
	<kcWdnaFpw_PvdurdRVn-sA@powergate.ca>
	<8089854e.0404122329.5dfe5ce1@posting.google.com>
	<R9-dnUYH8r32f-bd4p2dnA@powergate.ca>
	<8089854e.0404132323.3283390@posting.google.com>
	<C72dnV4KRqbJreDdRVn-jA@powergate.ca>
Message-ID: <8089854e.0404141105.37d09320@posting.google.com>

Peter Hansen <peter at engcorp.com> wrote in message news:<C72dnV4KRqbJreDdRVn-jA at powergate.ca>...
> Fuzzyman wrote:
> 
> > In summary - I'm better off learning C and how to write Python
> > extensions !!
> > It's just a very 'undynamic solution'.
> > 
> > Ho hum.... I've been trying to avoid delving into the arcane
> > makefile/linker/compiler chain mysteries... probably be more useful
> > anyway.
> 
> That is where Pyrex comes in.  You aren't supposed to have to know
> all those gory details then.  Just some of them. :-)
> 
> > I'm 'aware' of the concepts of memory allocation, garbage collection
> > etc - but I'm sure there's plenty more to learn..........
> 
> I doubt you'll need to encounter those if you're just trying to
> squeeze performance out of some bit-twiddling code.
> 
> -Peter

More trying to learn some new techniques / tools. The bit twiddling
was just a very good example where assembler might actually have been
the *simplest* solution.

Anyway thanks for your help - maybe I'll look into pyrex as a way of
coding python extensions.

The only compielr I have is gcc under mingw - and I'm not at all sure
it's set up right. Does pyrex still need a C-compiler or *is* pyrex a
compiler ? Oh well... I'm sure I'll work it out.

Thanks

Fuzzy

http://www.voidspace.org.uk/atlantibots/pythonutils.html


From bram at nospam.sara.nl  Wed Apr 14 05:13:34 2004
From: bram at nospam.sara.nl (Bram Stolk)
Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2004 11:13:34 +0200
Subject: spherical coordinates
Message-ID: <20040414111334.34b5d225@pistache.sara.nl>

Hi there,


Which module could I use if I want to do spherical coordinates in Python?

parnassus, google, and groups.google.com did not give me a good pointer.


Thanks,

  Bram


-- 
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 Bram Stolk, VR Engineer.
 SARA Academic Computing Services Amsterdam, PO Box 94613, 1090 GP  AMSTERDAM
 email: bram at nospam.sara.nl   Phone +31-20-5923059  Fax +31-20-6683167

"For the costs of subsidized agriculture in the EU, we can have all 56 million
 European cows fly around the world. First Class." - J. Norberg
------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From noemail at noemail4u.com  Thu Apr 15 07:31:27 2004
From: noemail at noemail4u.com (Dang Griffith)
Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2004 11:31:27 GMT
Subject: Reommended compiler toolkit
References: <c5g8uu$aak$1@news2.netvision.net.il>
	<407d5395$0$27643$61ce578d@news.syd.swiftdsl.com.au>
Message-ID: <8e0970f2f571ad8b6b07f7d3bc8a318c@news.teranews.com>

On Thu, 15 Apr 2004 01:15:30 +1000, huy <nytimes at swiftdsl.com.au>
wrote:

>Miki Tebeka wrote:
>> Hello All,
>> 
>> I'm looking for a pure python compiler toolkit (lexer + parser, like 
>> flex + bison).
[snip]
>
>Have a look at http://dparser.sourceforge.net/
>
>It supports BNF (EBNF?) notation which IMO is nicer then the PLY grammar 
>specs. I haven't tried dparser yet, so let us know how it is (compared 
>to PLY) if you decide to use it.
>
But it's not pure python.  It includes a Python interface to the
C-based parser (via SWIG).  OTOH, it does seem pretty powerful.
    --dang


From martin at v.loewis.de  Thu Apr 29 16:14:23 2004
From: martin at v.loewis.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?=22Martin_v=2E_L=F6wis=22?=)
Date: Thu, 29 Apr 2004 22:14:23 +0200
Subject: locale.CODESET / different in python shell and scripts
In-Reply-To: <pan.2004.04.28.22.37.39.159529@phreaker.net>
References: <pan.2004.04.26.23.23.56.718739@phreaker.net>
	<c6mfs1$99j$01$1@news.t-online.com>
	<pan.2004.04.28.22.37.39.159529@phreaker.net>
Message-ID: <4091621F.5060307@v.loewis.de>

Nuff Said wrote:
> Both Python versions give me 'ANSI_X3.4-1968' when I run a script
> with 'print locale.nl_langinfo(locale.CODESET)'. 
>   When I execute the same command in an interactive Python shell, 
> I get the (correct) 'UTF-8'. 

PLEASE invoke

locale.setlocale(locale.LC_ALL, "")

before invoking nl_langinfo. Different C libraries behave differently
in their nl_langinfo responses if setlocale hasn't been called.

Regards,
Martin



From rebirth at orcon.net.nz  Fri Apr  9 06:20:34 2004
From: rebirth at orcon.net.nz (David McNab)
Date: Fri, 09 Apr 2004 22:20:34 +1200
Subject: [Jython-users] ANN: SPIRO - a cPython->Jython bridge (amongst other
	uses)
Message-ID: <8501308.1081541401342.JavaMail.SYSTEM@C1879626-a>

Hi,

Announcing SPIRO - an easy cPython to Java bridge.

Background:

I spent some time looking for ways to interface between python and java.

Jython is great - but it comes at a price where one must forego all 
python modules containing binaries.

Pyro is great too - but presently cannot support running servers under 
jython.

I tried JPE - but its brittleness rules it out for distributing code to 
others.

So I gave up and wrote a new ORB myself:
SPIRO - Simple Python Interface to Remote Objects
http://www.freenet.org.nz/python/spiro

SPIRO allows cPython programs to manipulate Java objects via jython.
While it's not exactly CORBA-compliant, it is an easy and simple way to 
bridge between cPython and Java, with the advantage that it doesn't 
require any binary compilation.

The server-side of SPIRO can be easily built into a standalone .jar 
file, which together with the cPython Spiro client class, will give your 
cPython programs access to the full catalogue of java software.

Please note - this is an early alpha release, so stability is not 
guaranteed. If you're a tinkerer, and you feel like joining the 
development effort, let me know and I'll open a sourceforge account.

Present limitations - no support for subclassing Java objects in 
cPython, no support for exceptions.

Cheers
David


-------------------------------------------------------
This SF.Net email is sponsored by: IBM Linux Tutorials
Free Linux tutorial presented by Daniel Robbins, President and CEO of
GenToo technologies. Learn everything from fundamentals to system
administration.http://ads.osdn.com/?ad_id=1470&alloc_id=3638&op=click
_______________________________________________
Jython-users mailing list
Jython-users at lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jython-users




From fredrik at pythonware.com  Tue Apr 27 11:47:53 2004
From: fredrik at pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2004 17:47:53 +0200
Subject: Problem binding <Up> and <Down> events
References: <20040427135207.GA5359@dogma.freebsd-uk.eu.org>
Message-ID: <c6lvac$fek$1@sea.gmane.org>

Jonathonwe McKitrick wrote:

> I have a listbox with <Double-Button-1> bound to bring up an edit dialog.
> But <Up> and <Down> do not work.

(in the dialog?  in the listbox?  on the keyboard?)

>  I have a debug print statement, and the program never reaches the event
> handler.  I've tried handlers with 'event' arguments and with no arguments,
> but neither works.
>
> Is there something I am missing here?

if a keyboard binding doesn't work as you expect it to, it's usually because
focus is somewhere else.  when in doubt, add a widget.focus_set() call to
the appropriate location.

</F>






From fumanchu at amor.org  Thu Apr  1 11:14:55 2004
From: fumanchu at amor.org (Robert Brewer)
Date: Thu, 1 Apr 2004 08:14:55 -0800
Subject: splitting one dictionary into two
Message-ID: <DE1CF2B4FEC4A342BF62B6B2B334601E561F95@opus.amorhq.net>

jsaul wrote:
> I have to split a dict into two dicts. Depending on their values,
> the items shall remain in the original dict or be moved to another
> one and at the same time be removed from the original dict.
> 
> OK, this is how I do it right now:
> 
>     dict1 = { "a":1, "b":3, "c":5, "d":4, "e":2 }
>     dict2 = {}
>     klist = []
> 
>     for key in dict1:
>         if dict1[key] > 3: # some criterion
>             dict2[key] = dict1[key]
>             klist.append(key)
> 
>     for key in klist:
>         del dict1[key]
> 
>     print dict1
>     print dict2
> 
> That means that I store the keys of the items to be removed from
> the original dict in a list (klist) and subsequently remove the
> items using these keys.
> 
> Is there an "even more pythonic" way?

I'm not sure about "more Pythonic", but this is another way, which
iteratively destroys the original dict and produces two new ones:

def cleave(mapping, truthfunc):
    dict1, dict2 = {}, {}
    while mapping:
        key, value = mapping.popitem()
        if truthfunc(key, value):
            dict1[key] = value
        else:
            dict2[key] = value
    return dict1, dict2


HTH

Robert Brewer
MIS
Amor Ministries
fumanchu at amor.org



From mcfletch at rogers.com  Mon Apr 19 11:59:09 2004
From: mcfletch at rogers.com (Mike C. Fletcher)
Date: Mon, 19 Apr 2004 11:59:09 -0400
Subject: Problems using modulo
In-Reply-To: <d698d3e7.0404190731.3dcb89d2@posting.google.com>
References: <d698d3e7.0404190731.3dcb89d2@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <4083F74D.7050400@rogers.com>

Use repr to see the true values you are dealing with when printing 
floating point numbers (as distinct from the pretty "%s" formatter):

    t = 5.8
    interval = 2.0

    while t < 6.1:
        print "%r mod %r = %r " % (t, interval, t % interval )
        t += 0.1

Then you'll see what's going on:

    P:\temp>modulofloat.py
    5.7999999999999998 mod 2.0 = 1.7999999999999998
    5.8999999999999995 mod 2.0 = 1.8999999999999995
    5.9999999999999991 mod 2.0 = 1.9999999999999991
    6.0999999999999988 mod 2.0 = 0.099999999999998757

So, 5.99999... modulo 2.0 gives you 1.999999... as you would expect.

HTH,
Mike

Griff wrote:

>Test program:
>===============================================================
>t = 5.8
>interval = 2.0
>
>while t < 6.1:
>    print "%s mod %s = %s " % (t, interval, t % interval )
>    t += 0.1
>  
>
_______________________________________
  Mike C. Fletcher
  Designer, VR Plumber, Coder
  http://members.rogers.com/mcfletch/





From project2501 at project2501.cor  Wed Apr 14 06:20:50 2004
From: project2501 at project2501.cor (project2501)
Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2004 11:20:50 +0100
Subject: spherical coordinates
References: <20040414111334.34b5d225@pistache.sara.nl>
Message-ID: <pan.2004.04.14.10.20.47.766000@project2501.cor>

what do you want to do with spherical coordinates? surely they are simply
a transform from cartesian coordinates?

On Wed, 14 Apr 2004 11:13:34 +0200, Bram Stolk wrote:

> Hi there,
> 
> 
> Which module could I use if I want to do spherical coordinates in Python?
> 
> parnassus, google, and groups.google.com did not give me a good pointer.
> 
> 
> Thanks,
> 
>   Bram



From gandreas at no.reply  Fri Apr 23 16:58:02 2004
From: gandreas at no.reply (Glenn Andreas)
Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2004 15:58:02 -0500
Subject: CamelCase versus wide_names (Prothon)
References: <UHxfc.9323$dZ1.3740@fed1read04>
	<6e0680ac.0404211252.7f7b4358@posting.google.com>
	<4086DFA7.9736E7D3@alcyone.com>
	<roy-15454C.18080121042004@reader2.panix.com>
	<PdEhc.19536$dZ1.11964@fed1read04>
	<slrnc8hluh.s60.apardon@trout.vub.ac.be>
Message-ID: <gandreas-89D27E.15580223042004@news.mpls.visi.com>

In article <slrnc8hluh.s60.apardon at trout.vub.ac.be>,
 Antoon Pardon <apardon at forel.vub.ac.be> wrote:


> If you would define a component as something like an identifier but
> without an underscore and then define an identifier as a number
> of components attached to each other with underscores you then could
> allow a function to have part of its arguments between components.
> 
> Something like:
> 
>   copy_to(a,b)
> 
>   could then also be written as:
> 
>   copy(a)to(b)

Or make it like Objective-C or Smalltalk:

   copy: a to: b

(which is odd for either language since there is no reciever for the 
copy:to: message)

Probably wouldn't parse well with an if statement, though:

   if copy:a to: b:
      print "it copied"

That makes my eyes hurt just looking at it...

(I once made a simple scripting language that was built entirely from 
that syntax, but every "word:" after the first was actually used as a 
parameter name which could be in any order - it all worked suprisingly 
well since I could do stuff like:

   copy: a to: b

or

   copy: a symbolicLink: false to: b

or
   copy: a to: b symbolicLink: false

)


From andrew.henshaw at gtri.gatech.edu  Fri Apr  2 10:03:31 2004
From: andrew.henshaw at gtri.gatech.edu (Andrew Henshaw)
Date: Fri, 2 Apr 2004 15:03:31 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Making the Zen of Python more useful
References: <106qp0uivlefo40@corp.supernews.com>
	<BPWdnVtfl7ma5PDdRVn-sw@powergate.ca>
Message-ID: <c4jvc3$b0b$1@news-int.gatech.edu>

In article <BPWdnVtfl7ma5PDdRVn-sw at powergate.ca>, peter at engcorp.com says...
>
>Andrew Henshaw wrote:
>> Yesterday, I was writing some test code for a module and I wanted some
>> line-oriented text to use as a data source.  I thought about using a
>> docstring from one of the standard modules; but, it occurred to me that the
>> Zen of Python text from the 'this' module would be *much* better, as it is
>> more readable and would be a nice thing for our students to see.
>> 
>> Unfortunately, the actual text is difficult to use:
>>   o the text is ROT-13 encoded and the module's translation routine is
>> inline
>>   o the text is printed to stdout on import.  I understand why Tim did this,
>> but it did interfere with my purpose.
>> 
>> So, in order to use the module for my test code, I had to implement a short
>> ROT-13 translator, import the sys module, redirect stdout to a simple
>> object that provided a null write method, import this, restore stdout, and
>> then rot13(this.s).
>
>I'm not sure why you had to do quite all that.  The following is 
>sufficient, and you don't need a custom ROT-13 thingie:
>
> >>> import StringIO, sys
> >>> s = StringIO.StringIO()
> >>> sys.stdout = s
> >>> import this
> >>> sys.stdout = sys.__stdout__
> >>> s.getvalue()
>"The Zen of Python, by Tim Peters\n\nBeautiful is ...
>
>-Peter

Much better.  Still pretty awkward for the purpose I described.  Perhaps, the 
best solution, overall.

Thanks.

-- 
Andy



From peter9547 at btinternet.com  Sun Apr  4 12:48:19 2004
From: peter9547 at btinternet.com (Peter MacKenzie)
Date: Sun, 4 Apr 2004 16:48:19 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: emergent/swarm/evolutionary systems etc
References: <c4aeq8$92a$1@hercules.btinternet.com>
	<c4jehj$6eh$1@titan.btinternet.com>
	<b58bdd20aeb4b31cdcfc2a4fc1054a3a@news.teranews.com>
	<c4k63o$bss$1@hercules.btinternet.com>
	<106uj10g611v0f5@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <c4pe8i$f1o$1@hercules.btinternet.com>

So much to take in, so little time.  I'm torn between the creative urge to
go forth and embark on this project, and the more pressing need to
study-study-study for exams, so please bear with me if I appear a little
distracted.

My 'psychology' is one that responds better to open possibilities than
closed boundaries.  Compared to the expansive potential of python, I'd
likely become disenchanted with the restrictive structure of spreadsheets.
Although I could launch straight into the simpler spreadsheet stuff, getting
it to do really interesting stuff may prove tricky in the long run, and I'd
be constantly itching to try something more 'fun'.

A little investment in learning to program would leave me a happier person,
in the short and the long term.  Since it's a skill I'd like to acquire
anyway, I'm inclined to lean that way regardless of the relative merits of
spreadsheets vs. python.  It's likely that the added difficulty of
implementing it in an unfamiliar format would be taken into consideration in
the grading of the dissertation (as is standard practice where the project
is faced with obstacles), but do you think that python would make for a
'better' dissertation?

As for whittling away a couple of months on background reading, I doubt I'd
have the patience.  I like to launch straight into things, learning as I go
and doing stuff my own way.  Generally, I only refer to other peoples' work
when I'm really stuck, or when I don't know enough about the subject to even
hazard a guess at where to start.  Doubtless I'll get really stuck at many
points in my simulation attempts, as I've been really stuck just trying to
get the simplest of code to work, but I don't see myself pouring over the
arcane tomes for longer than is strictly necessary.  Not that I intend to be
sloppy about my reading - just concise.

Also, the 2-month schedule should perhaps be clarified.  The actual deadline
is the beginning of December, but I'd like to keep fairly pessimistic about
the time I'll have, given course considerations, the limited amount of
effort I can spare before the first of June (end of exams) as well as the
tendency of field work and data mining to eat time like candy.  Still, if
push comes to shove, I could makes thing fit, one way or another.

Cameron Laird <claird at lairds.com> wrote in message
news:106uj10g611v0f5 at corp.supernews.com...
> In article <c4k63o$bss$1 at hercules.btinternet.com>,
> Peter MacKenzie <peter9547 at btinternet.com> wrote:
> >Spreadsheets do seem to be an attractive option, but the benefits are not
> >without their detractors:
> >
> >+Easy to work with
> >+Require no/limited skill acquisition
> >+Flexible
> >
> >-Cells can only hold single items of data (which can be worked around by
> >using arrays of cells to hold multiple attributes for each location)
> >-Require no/limited skill acquisition (being familiar and honest with my
own
> >psychological composition, I know that the only way I'm likely to develop
a
> >fair degree of programming competence is if there's a driving pressure to
do
> >so.  It's something I'd like to learn, and this gives me the
excuse/leverage
> >to do so.)
> >
> >Unknowns:  Time series graphical output would be necessary, even if it's
> >very primitive.  Do you know if the spreadsheet could be set up in such a
> >way that cells would change colour depending on their values, or if the
> >graph making facilities would be able to create reasonable
representations
> >of said values so that a series of graphs would be capable of showing up
> >phenomena with fluidic (wavelike, turbulent, etc) characteristics?
> >
> >I'm afraid the temptation to take the hard route my prove too great
> >(psychological paradoxes: I always feel good about feeling so terrible
about
> >these things after I've passed the point of no return in the undertaking,
> >and the enormity of the task at hand sinks in - it's a whole adrenalin
> >thing), but I'd still like to make a comprehensive assessment of my
options
> >before I commit to anything.
> >
> >
>
> Spreadsheets can do anything.  Python can do anything.
>
> To first approximation, at least.  They both have developed
> enough to have far more capabilities than you'll exhaust in
> a couple of months.
>
> The key questions are:  which better suit your psychology?
> Which will get in the way less?  Which support "libraries"
> of related material in your "domain" (geography)?
>
> You're not experienced enough with software yet to judge
> the first of these questions well.  Whatever first impres-
> sions Python or Excel make on you are likely to dwindle to
> insignicance after a few more weeks of software exploration.
>
> One of the dimensions your comparison of the two approaches
> doesn't cover is robustness of expression and abstraction.
> You aren't in a position to appreciate this yet, but Python
> beats spreadsheets all to pieces in these regards.  Crudely,
> you can hand a Python solution to someone else, two years
> from now, and he'll understand what you've done, and how to
> modify or validate or ... it.  I argue strongly that that is
> *not* true for spreadsheet solutions.  I therefore regard
> spreadsheet approaches, except in specialized circumstances,
> as anti-scientific, because they don't promote the free
> exchange of ideas.
>
> There's a rich literature on simulation done with computers,
> some of it specifically by those coming from geography.  It
> would be no particular problem to dissipate the entire two
> months just reading up on what you plan to do.  You need to
> figure out a very circumscribed goal, and ask experts on what
> you should do to achieve it.
>
> Reading through *Thinking ... with Python* certainly can be
> part of that path.
> --
>
> Cameron Laird <claird at phaseit.net>
> Business:  http://www.Phaseit.net




From rnikaREMOVEnder at adelphia.net  Wed Apr 21 00:11:07 2004
From: rnikaREMOVEnder at adelphia.net (Rob Nikander)
Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 21:11:07 -0700
Subject: How to get the ip addresses of a nic
In-Reply-To: <LEfhc.146586$jf4.7761132@news000.worldonline.dk>
References: <LEfhc.146586$jf4.7761132@news000.worldonline.dk>
Message-ID: <2sKdnSP1MpnEaRjd4p2dnA@adelphia.com>

Bo Jacobsen wrote:
> Is there a simple way to get all the ip addresses of a nic, beyound parsing
> /etc/sysconfig/.....
> 
> -------------------------------------------------
> Bo Jacobsen
> 
> 

I just had to do deal with this BS a couple days ago.  I couldn't get 
the socket module to give it to me.  The only ways I found were parsing 
the output of ifconfig (or equivalent on other platforms) or connecting 
to server and then looking at your socket.  I don't like either one.

Rob

# Method 1

s = socket.socket(socket.AF_INET, socket.SOCK_STREAM)
s.connect(('somewebserver', 80))
return s.getsockname()[0]

# Method 2

if sys.platform == 'linux2':
     out = commands.getoutput('/sbin/ifconfig')
     return re.search('inet addr:(.+?)\s', out).group(1)
elif sys.platform == 'win32':
     si, so = os.popen4('route print')
     out = so.read()
     ipPatt = r'\d+\.\d+\.\d+.\d+'
     return re.search(r'0\.0\.0\.0\s+0\.0\.0\.0\s+' + ipPatt + r'\s+(' + 
ipPatt + ')', out).group(1)
elif sys.platform == 'freebsd5':
     out = commands.getoutput('/sbin/ifconfig')
     return re.search('inet (\S+)\s', out).group(1)
else:
     raise Exception('unsupported platform: %s' % sys.platform)



From klapotec at chello.at  Wed Apr  7 13:53:00 2004
From: klapotec at chello.at (Christopher Koppler)
Date: Wed, 07 Apr 2004 17:53:00 GMT
Subject: Are line continuations needed?
References: <407409ef.82801353@news.eircom.net>
Message-ID: <mff8701c2v16qd36e4sqs1uasfbhr3e7np@4ax.com>

On Wed, 07 Apr 2004 14:05:29 GMT, wallacethinmintr at eircom.net (Russell
Wallace) wrote:

>Hi all,
>
>Python lets you continue a single logical line across more than one
>physical line, either by putting a \ at the end or letting it happen
>automatically with an incomplete infix operator.
>
>I'm wondering how often is this feature needed? Would there be any
>problems if it weren't part of the language?

I don't have any ready examples, but I do occasionally need it, if
only for readability porpoises, or more often to fit a line to a
certain length limit. If a parenthetical expression will work, and
doesn't look stranger (really can't think of a case), I'll use that.

But problems there'll surely be - with legacy code compatibility.


>-- 
>"Sore wa himitsu desu."
Not really it isn't ;-)

--
Christopher


From sridharinfinity at yahoo.com  Thu Apr 29 05:59:56 2004
From: sridharinfinity at yahoo.com (Sridhar R)
Date: 29 Apr 2004 02:59:56 -0700
Subject: Kiwi
References: <mailman.99.1083188447.25742.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <930ba99a.0404290159.2f929618@posting.google.com>

"Laughlin, Joseph V" <Joseph.V.Laughlin at boeing.com> wrote in message news:<mailman.99.1083188447.25742.python-list at python.org>...
> Is anyone using the Kiwi wrappers for pygtk?  Is there an updated
> version of it?  The one I can find is from 2002 and it doesn't seem to
> work too well (for starters, it's trying to import libglade and not
> gtk.glade)...
> 
> Joe Laughlin
> Phantom Works - Integrated Technology Development Labs 
> The Boeing Company

You should also be looking at GtkMVC
http://sra.itc.it/people/cavada/mvc/


From michele.simionato at poste.it  Thu Apr 29 13:30:58 2004
From: michele.simionato at poste.it (Michele Simionato)
Date: 29 Apr 2004 10:30:58 -0700
Subject: python 2.3's lambda behaves old fashioned
References: <c6r3qo$1574k$1@hades.rz.uni-saarland.de>
Message-ID: <95aa1afa.0404290930.44ac3452@posting.google.com>

Uwe Schmitt <uwe.schmitt at procoders.net> wrote in message news:<c6r3qo$1574k$1 at hades.rz.uni-saarland.de>...
> Hi,
> 
> I just tried (Python 2.3)
> 
>     li = [ lambda x: x*a for a in range(10) ]
> 
> which results in 
> 
>     li[0](1) = 9
>     ...
>     li[9](1) = 9
> 
> In order to achieve the intended result I had to fall back on the
> following trick:
> 
>     li = [ lambda x,a=a: x*a for a in range(10)]
> 
> which leads to the expected result.
> 
> Any explanations ???
> 
> Greetings, Uwe.

This should be in  the FAQ. Here is a recent thread on the subject:

http://groups.google.it/groups?hl=it&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&threadm=95aa1afa.0402272327.29828430%40posting.google.com&rnum=1&prev=/groups%3Fhl%3Dit%26lr%3D%26ie%3DUTF-8%26oe%3DUTF-8%26q%3Dsimionato%2Bscope%2Brules%26meta%3Dgroup%253Dcomp.lang.python.*

    Michele Simionato


From davidf at sjsoft.com  Thu Apr 22 01:49:52 2004
From: davidf at sjsoft.com (David Fraser)
Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2004 07:49:52 +0200
Subject: python shutting down sloooooooowly/tuning dictionaries
In-Reply-To: <mailman.846.1082565405.20120.python-list@python.org>
References: <20040421153923.GA13234%till@score.is.tsukuba.ac.jp>	<40869D5F.9010408@sweetapp.com>
	<mailman.846.1082565405.20120.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <c67m30$f1o$3@ctb-nnrp2.saix.net>

Till Plewe wrote:
> On Wed, Apr 21, 2004 at 06:12:15PM +0200, Brian Quinlan wrote:
> 
>>>Since the entire database is too large I typically run the same
>>>program 10-100 times on smaller parts. The annoying bit is that the
>>>time for finishing one instance of a program before starting the next
>>>instance can take a lot of time.  ...
>>
>>You might try disabling garbage collection using the gc module when you 
>>your application is done. Explicitly closing any files bound to globals 
>>might then be a good idea.
>>
>>Cheers,
>>Brian
>>
> 
> 
> Thanks for the suggestions but unfortunately I already tried disabling
> gc. It did not have any noticable effect (not that I was patient
> enough to time it) nor did using sys.exit(). Also, I am not using
> threads which excludes another possible explanation. 
> 
> To give an example of the actual time spans involved: 2-10 minutes for
> running the program and > 30 minutes for shutdown. During that time
> the amount of memory used by python does not seem to vary.
> 
> A far as closing files is concerned, I am using cdb for writing 
> read-only databases and I am using cdb.finish() (there is no explicit
> method for closing(); finish writes all key/value pairs to a temporary
> file and then moves that file to wherever you want it. But as far as I can see
> as soon as that file is written/has been moved no more I/O should take place.
> There is no data loss if I simply kill the python program. 
>  
> - Till
> 
> 

Have you tried adding __del__ methods to your objects and printing the 
time out from them? That may help you work out what is happening

David


From luis_ at iname.com  Tue Apr 13 14:13:51 2004
From: luis_ at iname.com (Lupe)
Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2004 19:13:51 +0100
Subject: thank you everyone! eom
References: <c54lq3$2pe1sf$1@ID-202776.news.uni-berlin.de>
	<nvCdnR2sGtFSKevdRVn-tA@comcast.com>
Message-ID: <c5haih$1nft0$1@ID-202776.news.uni-berlin.de>

...


From peter at engcorp.com  Tue Apr  6 23:03:42 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Tue, 06 Apr 2004 23:03:42 -0400
Subject: Customizing the python search path depending on source directory
In-Reply-To: <5cf809e9.0404061853.41cd3c85@posting.google.com>
References: <5cf809e9.0404061853.41cd3c85@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <BbudnT8dYIUS8u7dRVn-vw@powergate.ca>

Peter Schwalm wrote:

> My idea was to use site.py / sitecustomize.py in lib/site-packages and
> to have sitecustomize.py invoke a directory-specific customizing
> module - say dirCustomize.py - located in the script source directory.
> 
> But it seems that this is the wrong place, because at the moment
> sitecustomize is imported
> 
>     a) the source directory of the script is still not in sys.path

Are you sure?  Looking at site.py, it appears that the sitecustomize
import is done next-to-last, just before sys.setdefaultencoding is
deleted.  If you concluded this by examining sys.path manually at
the point just as sitecustomize is imported, maybe you don't know
that the '' entry in sys.path actually represents the source
directory of the main script...

It would seem your suggested solution above should actually work...

-Peter


From chrisabruce at yahoo.com  Wed Apr 14 14:46:04 2004
From: chrisabruce at yahoo.com (Chris)
Date: 14 Apr 2004 11:46:04 -0700
Subject: urlopen differences between python 2.3.3 and python 2.2???
Message-ID: <5bec5d30.0404141046.73580bd@posting.google.com>

I am using the code below and it works correctly on python2.2 but
gives me a 404 not found error when running on python2.3.3.  Is there
some difference?  Maybe python 2.3.3 is sending different headers?

The params string looks to be encoded identically, so must be
something with urlopen.  Does anyone have any suggestions to get this
working from python2.3.3??


Thanks in advance!

import httplib,urllib

def signup(self, REQUEST):
    """
    Allows us to automatically sign-up a user.
    """
    email = REQUEST['Email']
    first_name = REQUEST['FirstName']
    last_name = REQUEST['LastName']
    if REQUEST.has_key('Company'):
        company = REQUEST['Company']
    else:
        company = ''
        
    if REQUEST.has_key('Address'):
        address = REQUEST['Address']
    else:
        address = ''
        
    if REQUEST.has_key('City'):
        city = REQUEST['City']
    else:
        city = ''
        
    if REQUEST.has_key('State'):
        state = REQUEST['State']
    else:
        state = ''
        
    if REQUEST.has_key('Zip'):
        zip = REQUEST['Zip']
    else:
        zip = ''
        
    if REQUEST.has_key('Phone'):
        phone = REQUEST['Phone']
    else:
        phone = ''
                
    if REQUEST.has_key('Fax'):
        fax = REQUEST['Fax']
    else:
        fax = ''

    params_list = {'owner_id_enc':'18164,$1$mGEJB$g1V9TwRwtIEsBj5XsnnN1/',
        'user_email':email,
        'user_email_fmt':'html',
        'user_fname':first_name,
        'user_lname':last_name,
        'user_company':company,
        'user_addr1':address,
        'user_city':city,
        'user_state':state,
        'user_state_other':'',
        'user_zip':zip,
        'user_phone':phone,
        'user_fax':fax,
        'user_attr1':'a',
        'function':'Subscribe'}
    params = urllib.urlencode(params_list)
    f = urllib.urlopen("http://mailermailer.com/x", params)
    return f.read()

print signup(None,{'Email':'test7 at chongopunk.com','FirstName':'Chris','LastName':'Bruce'})


From roman.yakovenko at actimize.com  Wed Apr 14 10:33:56 2004
From: roman.yakovenko at actimize.com (Roman Yakovenko)
Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2004 17:33:56 +0300
Subject: ctypes.com - unable to call function, read property
Message-ID: <2D89F6C4A80FA547BF5D5B8FDDD04523060C65@exchange.adrembi.com>

Hi. I am trying for the first time to use ctypes.com module. 
I have question: I have reference to object that implements IDiaSession interface.

IDiaSession._methods_ = IUnknown._methods_ + [
    STDMETHOD(HRESULT, "_get_loadAddress", POINTER(c_ulonglong)),
    STDMETHOD(HRESULT, "getEnumDebugStreams", POINTER(POINTER(IDiaEnumDebugStreams))),

I can't find out how I call _get_loadAddress and getEnumDebugStreams methods.
I know that in com "get_" is a prefix for property. What should I do ? 
Also "_get_loadAddress" defined as property.


Thanks for help.

Roman



From PeterAbel at gmx.net  Wed Apr  7 16:24:43 2004
From: PeterAbel at gmx.net (Peter Abel)
Date: 7 Apr 2004 13:24:43 -0700
Subject: Dynamic creation of an object instance of a class by name
References: <mailman.419.1081348862.20120.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <21064255.0404071224.344bd74e@posting.google.com>

Andre Meyer <meyer at acm.org> wrote in message news:<mailman.419.1081348862.20120.python-list at python.org>...
> Hi all
> 
> I have been searching everywhere for this, but have not found a solution, yet.
> 
> What I need is to create is an object that is an instance of a class (NOT a
> class instance!) of which I only know the name as a string. This what I tried:
> 
> class A:
>    def __init__(self, id):
>       self.id = id
>    def getID(self):
>      print self.id
> 
> ca = new.classobj('A', (), {})
> oa1 = ca()
> oa2 = new.instance(ca)
> 
> oa1
> <__main__.A instance at 0x007E8AF8>
> 
> oa1.getID()
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
> AttributeError: A instance has no attribute 'getID'
> 
> oa2
> <__main__.A instance at 0x007E8AF8>
> 
> oa2.getID()
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
> AttributeError: A instance has no attribute 'getID'
> 
> 
> Thus, both ways only produce a class instance, but NOT an object of that
> class!!! How can I get a new object instance???
> What else needs to be filled in for base_classes and __dict__ in new.classobj?
> 
> 
> Any help is appreciated, this is driving me nuts!
> 
> kind regards
> Andre

I'm not quite sure if I guess what you mean:
Is it?
>>> class A:
... 	def __init__(self,id):
... 		self.id=id
... 	def getID(self):
... 		print self.id
... 
>>> a=eval('A')('item')
>>> a.getID()
item

Or rather the following?

>>> classNEW=new.classobj('classX',(A,),globals())
>>> x=classNEW('another_item')
>>> x.getID()
another_item
>>> 

The first one evaluates the string 'A' to a class-object from
which you can instantiate.
>>> eval('A')
<class __main__.A at 0x00DFA540>
>>> 

The second one inherits classNEW() from A() with name 'classX'
with the namespace of globals().
>>> classNEW
<class __main__.classX at 0x00DF6D80>
>>> classNEW.__name__
'classX'
>>> 
where the name of class A() is 'A'
>>> A.__name__
'A'

See http://www.python.org/doc/2.2.3/lib/module-new.html
...
classobj(name, baseclasses, dict) 
This function returns a new class object, with name name, derived from
baseclasses (which should be a tuple of classes) and with namespace
dict.

Regards
Peter


From franck.lepoutre at caramail.com  Wed Apr 21 06:24:05 2004
From: franck.lepoutre at caramail.com (francois lepoutre)
Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2004 12:24:05 +0200
Subject: A Paris python user group?
Message-ID: <40879c82$0$25890$79c14f64@nan-newsreader-02.noos.net>

Hi all french speaking, Paris-based python users,
Bonjour ? tous les utilisateurs parisiens de python,

How many are we to use python in the *Paris* Area?
If any ? Enough to build some community life?

Combien sommes nous ? utiliser python sur Paris?
Assez pour monter une assoc?

Two years ago i discovered perl and, by the way,
 their cheerfull and welcoming Paris user community
 http://paris.mongueurs.net/

Il y a deux ans, j'ai d?couvert perl et, par la m?me
occasion, la chaleureuse ambiance des perl mongueurs
de Paris

Informal meeting at "La Taverne R?publique"
5, place de la R?publique every month.
Socialising, a few drinks, some food (pizzas
available for the die-hard... but most would stick
to the great local moules-frites mussels-chips

Une r?union informelle ? la "Taverne R?publique"
5, place de la R?publique chaque mois.
Une ambiance decomplex?e, quelques boissons
et des moules-frites (pizzas pour les accros).

Great hours re-shaping IT late from 8pm into
the night... but I have since switched to python.

Des heures agr?ables ? refaire notre industrie
? partir de 8 heures du soir ... Mais depuis
je suis pass? ? python.

Anyone to join for a "Paris python user group"?
Des volontaires pour un groupe parisien ?

Same place, same programme, but there's
room for negociation, on both the drink and
the food :)

Nous proposons le m?me lieu et la m?me
formule mais nous sommes pr?ts ? discuter :)

Fran?ois et Jean




From jfabiani at yolo.com  Fri Apr 30 14:49:57 2004
From: jfabiani at yolo.com (John Fabiani)
Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2004 18:49:57 GMT
Subject: web start
Message-ID: <pdxkc.42995$zV1.24423@newssvr29.news.prodigy.com>

In the Java world they have a way to start and update programs using web
start.  Is there something like web start for Python?
-- 
John Fabiani


From peter at engcorp.com  Mon Apr 12 22:04:38 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2004 22:04:38 -0400
Subject: Random Numbers and a thought
In-Reply-To: <107m8qvphrjd303@corp.supernews.com>
References: <107m6f0t4i0gnff@corp.supernews.com>
	<ctednRIVbfzSgObdRVn-gQ@powergate.ca>
	<107m8qvphrjd303@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <0qadnfH7L4Ur1-bdRVn-tw@powergate.ca>

A Evans wrote:
>>What "pattern" are you talking about?
> 
> I would like to take a random number generated by a computer application
> then use my application to try and determine the pattern in that application
> 
> Quote me if its impossible

http://www.google.ca/search?q=cracking+random+number+generator

Reading what's at the first link alone should discourage you. :-)

As Kirk indicated, it's basically not possible for any decent random
number generator.  The fourth link has some pointers on doing it
for poor generators (such as the traditional linear congruential one)
by doing things like high dimensional graphing and finding lattice
structures (to paraphrase that page).

This is the sort of stuff where one should go to university and then
look into as part of one's PhD thesis...

-Peter


From rogerb at rogerbinns.com  Sat Apr  3 13:03:23 2004
From: rogerb at rogerbinns.com (Roger Binns)
Date: Sat, 3 Apr 2004 10:03:23 -0800
Subject: Parrot for Python
References: <930ba99a.0404030251.c2d2107@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <6sa3k1-4ub.ln1@home.rogerbinns.com>

> Why is Java so popular than Python.

Java is a great solution for server side stuff.  It has the same respect
as C++ gets (ie people and PHB's do consider it a "real" language/environment).
The class libraries are *way* more advanced than the Python ones.  For example
compare Python's imaplib with javamail.  (Hint: Python pretty much just gives
you raw protocol back and you have to figure out what is going on).

Other libraries such a JNDI, Activation, JMF etc don't even exist in
Python.  Have a look at this page:

http://java.sun.com/reference/api/index.html

And this one:

http://java.sun.com/products/

In many cases there are similar libraries for Python, or more often
multiple incomplete (incomplete by comparison to Java) implementations
out there.

Now sometimes you don't need such complete libraries, and Python lets
you get the problem solved quicker.  Other times you have to augment
someone else's library component, which would have been time better
spent on your own code.

Roger




From adeleinandjeremy at yahoo.com  Wed Apr 28 20:57:31 2004
From: adeleinandjeremy at yahoo.com (Adelein and Jeremy)
Date: Wed, 28 Apr 2004 17:57:31 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Problems installing Python 2.3 with Tkinter linked to Tcl/Tk 8.4
Message-ID: <20040429005731.85659.qmail@web50309.mail.yahoo.com>

I have just installed Python 2.3.3, after first installing Tcl/Tk
8.4.6.

After successful installation of Tcl/Tk (including passing configure
the '--enable-shared' option), and testing both Tcl and Tk, I
unpacked Python2.3 and began a frustrating installation. After
standard configuration, make told me it was renaming module _tkinter
because the module was not found (sorry I am omitting the exact
warning message) - I don't understand that completely, but that was
what it said. So I then edited the Setup file in Python2.3/Modules/
so that it would 1) include _tkinter, 2) look for tkinter in
/usr/local/lib, 3) look for tk.h in /usr/local/include, 4) find X11,
and 5) look for libtk8.4 and libtcl8.4.

So I went through make and it told me that libtk8.4.so could not be
opened. The file existed with read and execute privileges for all in
/usr/local/lib, so I was perplexed.

I then found a single helpful explanation (among many completely
misleading ones) at
http://www.talkaboutprogramming.com/group/comp.lang.python/messages/290343.html
(which is for Fedora, but works well with RH 8.0.

However, upon having written the script that it suggests, and
deleting  the /usr/local/bin/python, I realized that idle was broken.
Also, scripts could not be executed with the sh-bang line at top if
written for Python 2.3. So I moved python2.3 over to python again,
and realized that idle still wouldn't work because Python will not
look for Tcl/Tk where it installs by default.

Is there a better solution than the one I followed? If not, is there
a plan for generalizing the Python Tkinter installation so that it
will look for Tcl/Tk instead of assuming that it knows where it is? I
found it messy enough having to deal with multiple Python
installations due to RedHat's reliance on old versions, and this is
simply a show-stopper when it comes to recommending Python to others.

I have to wonder if I am doing something very wrong, but I have no
idea where my mistake would be. If nothing else, others with this
problem may see this post and at least have a temporary fix.

- Jeremy


	
		
__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! HotJobs  
http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/careermakeover 



From http  Tue Apr 13 05:09:43 2004
From: http (Paul Rubin)
Date: 13 Apr 2004 02:09:43 -0700
Subject: How to read & write standard password encrypted ZIP files?
References: <19804fd8.0404120411.3497925d@posting.google.com>
	<c5ep74$5sl$1@news.service.uci.edu>
	<19804fd8.0404130029.7b33d6f3@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <7x4qroxmzs.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

k.robert at gmx.de (Robert) writes:
> is there a secure encrypted format, that could be read also by common
> tools like WinZIP, WinRAR ?

There's a proposal for better encryption in zip files, but I don't
think it's widely supported yet.


From google at evpopov.com  Fri Apr 30 04:10:56 2004
From: google at evpopov.com (popov)
Date: 30 Apr 2004 01:10:56 -0700
Subject: Doing readline in a thread from a popen4('rsync ...') stream
	blo cks when the stream ends.
References: <mailman.96.1083180848.25742.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <7eecf173.0404300010.7cd31c0b@posting.google.com>

"Rasmusson, Lars" <lars.rasmusson at hp.com> wrote in message news:<mailman.96.1083180848.25742.python-list at python.org>...
> Hi,
> 
> I have a problem doing I/O in a python thread.
> 
> I want a thread to execute a command using 
> os.popen, read its input until the end, and
> then print 'DONE' and terminate.
> 
> However, the thread hangs when it reaches
> the end of the stream.  

You can have a look here:
http://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=5470&atid=105470, looking for
'popen'.
requestID #566037 may be of interest, for eg.


From loic at yermat.net1.nerim.net  Thu Apr 22 13:08:30 2004
From: loic at yermat.net1.nerim.net (Yermat)
Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2004 19:08:30 +0200
Subject: alternative python compilers/vms? (like java)
In-Reply-To: <c68rnr$2br$03$1@news.t-online.com>
References: <pan.2004.04.22.16.09.35.766000@project2501.cor>
	<c68rnr$2br$03$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <c68u44$1fql$1@biggoron.nerim.net>

Diez B. Roggisch a ?crit :
> project2501 wrote:
> 
> 
>>are there alternative compilers for python? or different VMs to run the
>>bytecode?
>>
>>similar to IBM java jvm and sun jvm, and other jvms? jikes, gcj?
> 
> 
> there is jython, a very popular python 2.1 implementation on top of the java
> vm.
> 
> Apart from that, AFAIX python is not specified in terms of a vm, as java is.
> The bytecode might actually change between versions.
> 

There is also IronPython for .NET.

By now, the python byte code is considered as "an implementation detail" 
that is why it is not specified...
It might disappear in the future... or not. ;-)

So it seems that we cannot rely on it for whatever purpose !

-- 
Yermat



From elainejackson7355 at home.com  Sun Apr 11 14:11:24 2004
From: elainejackson7355 at home.com (Elaine Jackson)
Date: Sun, 11 Apr 2004 18:11:24 GMT
Subject: Tkinter Button image option
References: <8d3ec.74988$Ig.46341@pd7tw2no> <dp6nk1-4u1.ln1@6.mabelsoft.org>
Message-ID: <gTfec.79857$Ig.65062@pd7tw2no>


"Mike Abel" <Ax10 at gmx.de> wrote in message
news:dp6nk1-4u1.ln1 at 6.mabelsoft.org...
<snip>
| Sorry it's a german site.

Kein Problem. Ganz im Gegenteil: ich habe den genau richtigen Hinweis gefunden.
Danke vielmals!




From No.Spam.mc at No.Spam.mclaveau.No.Spam.com  Mon Apr 26 11:49:36 2004
From: No.Spam.mc at No.Spam.mclaveau.No.Spam.com (Michel Claveau/Hamster)
Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2004 17:49:36 +0200
Subject: Paris python user group?
References: <408795ee$0$25893$79c14f64@nan-newsreader-02.noos.net>
	<c6d4pt$pca$1@news-reader2.wanadoo.fr>
	<c6j8kn$ci3$1@news-reader5.wanadoo.fr>
Message-ID: <c6jb3l$qos$1@news-reader2.wanadoo.fr>

Bonjour !

Dans l'Ard?che, je peux organiser une r?union avec h?bergement (pas cher),
salle de travail, et descente de l'Ard?che (ou mini-descente de 7 km si on
doit travailler plus).

Les parisiens vont baver...

@-salutations
-- 
Michel Claveau





From peter at engcorp.com  Thu Apr  8 09:45:29 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Thu, 08 Apr 2004 09:45:29 -0400
Subject: if 'hallo' in ['hallooo','halloooooooo'] problem
In-Reply-To: <c53k55$mm2$1@news.mch.sbs.de>
References: <c53k55$mm2$1@news.mch.sbs.de>
Message-ID: <2dydnWYBufjnyujdRVn-hA@powergate.ca>

Robert wrote:

> I have a little problem and mybe one of you has got the solution.
> I would like to check if a string is in a list of strings.
> The following returns true:
> if 'hallo' in ['halloooo','hallooooooooo']:
>     pass

c:\>python
 >>> 'hallo' in ['hallooo', 'halllloooo']
False


Given that "if" is not an expression, and so "returns" nothing
at all, please explain what you mean above... clearly the
"in" expression is behaving as you requested...

-Peter


From fredrik at pythonware.com  Fri Apr 16 15:21:20 2004
From: fredrik at pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2004 21:21:20 +0200
Subject: Convert from PDF to raster format image
References: <8a27e309.0404161054.2a5c5ecc@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <c5pbmt$2em$1@sea.gmane.org>

"R.Marquez" wrote:

> Does any one know of a way to convert PDF documents into a raster
> format, such as TIFF or JPEG?  Of course to do it in Python would be
> my preference, but if you know of another way to do this
> programatically I would also be interested.  Thanks.

did you try ghostscript?

    http://www.cs.wisc.edu/~ghost/
    http://www.ghostscript.com

</F>






From hans at zephyrfalcon.org  Fri Apr 16 02:00:34 2004
From: hans at zephyrfalcon.org (Hans Nowak)
Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2004 02:00:34 -0400
Subject: CamelCase versus wide_names (Prothon)
In-Reply-To: <UHxfc.9323$dZ1.3740@fed1read04>
References: <UHxfc.9323$dZ1.3740@fed1read04>
Message-ID: <407F7682.8040709@zephyrfalcon.org>

Mark Hahn wrote:
> We have agreed in Prothon that unlike Python we are going to be 100%
> consistant in our var and method naming.  We will not have run-together
> words like iteritems, we are going to always have seperated words like
> has_key.
> 
> Now we are in the midst of a discussion of camelCase versus wide_names.  So
> far our arguments are:
> 
> 1) CamelCase is more elegant, modern, more readable, and more efficient in
> character usage.
> 
> 2) Wide_names is cleaner, more readable, compatible with C, which is the
> standard module language for Python and Prothon.  Wide_names is also the
> Python standard.
> 
> Of course in the Python world you alread have wide_names as your standard,
> but could you for the moment pretend you were picking your standard from
> scratch (as we are doing in the Prothon world) and give your vote for which
> you'd prefer?

That would be wide_names.  CamelCase would be tolerable.  In my own code, I use 
a mixture: CamelCase for class names, wide_names for everything else (inspired 
by older Python code).  Not mixedCase, mind you; IMHO, that's an atrocity.  If 
you're going to use caps in names, then at least the first letter should be 
capitalized.  Putting the capitals somewhere in the middle but not in the front 
seems very unnatural to me.

-- 
Hans (hans at zephyrfalcon.org)
http://zephyrfalcon.org/





From joe at notcharles.ca  Sun Apr  4 00:24:45 2004
From: joe at notcharles.ca (Joe Mason)
Date: Sun, 04 Apr 2004 05:24:45 GMT
Subject: Python is faster than C
References: <406F0907.96F37EA1@tunes.org>
	<slrnc6ud7b.4u7.joe@gate.notcharles.ca>
	<406F6020.F1361B55@tunes.org>
Message-ID: <slrnc6v5al.5mq.joe@gate.notcharles.ca>

In article <406F6020.F1361B55 at tunes.org>, Armin Rigo wrote:
> Joe Mason wrote:
>> > The reason is that the C implementation must use a generic '<' operator
>> > to compare elements, while the Psyco version quickly figures out that it
>> > can expect to find ints in the list; it still has to check this
>> > assumption, but this is cheap and then the comparison is done with a
>> > single machine instruction.
>> 
>> Why can't the C implementation do the same thing?
> 
> You could, if you wanted to optimize specifically lists of integers.  If
> you did the result would probably be really fast.  The problem is that
> you can only really special-case so many types: the C code has to deal
> with all cases without knowing which cases are likely.  The Psyco
> version quickly figures out that for this list it pays off to make a
> special case for integers; with another list, the machine code would be
> different, special-cased differently.

Ah, good point.  (In fact, not special-casing lots of things in the C
code is exactly what I was arguing against in my other post.)

Joe


From cmg at dok.org  Wed Apr  7 09:34:47 2004
From: cmg at dok.org (Chris Green)
Date: Wed, 07 Apr 2004 09:34:47 -0400
Subject: Python Documentation Blows!
References: <mailman.135.1080674367.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<20040330181802.04141.00000304@mb-m17.aol.com>
	<mailman.150.1080693147.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<c4eq0e$2g6ov4$1@ID-217427.news.uni-berlin.de>
	<de6dnW6CZuRCa_fdRVn-jg@powergate.ca>
Message-ID: <m2isgbvrm0.fsf@catbert.dok.org>

Peter Hansen <peter at engcorp.com> writes:

> anton muhin wrote:
>
>> Maybe just start a wiki based on the current documentation? It
>> shouldn't be too difficult, should it?
>
> What part of http://wiki.wxpython.org/ is not adequate?

One problem wxpython's wiki seems to have is not enough time to
refactor it (coupled with the namespace changing from wxEVENT =>
wx.EVENT ) and lots of nodes being empty or partially duplicated.

What PHP seems to have over it is taking a full docset and then
allowing posts to refer to the documentation.

If there could be a "official manual" / commentary section with enough
people(!) to maintain the look and factor out poor hanging questions,
such a project would be very useful.  This is a pretty major task as
the part of wikis that make it easy to add a small bit of commentary
also make it hard to refactor into a coherent document.  
-- 
Chris Green <cmg at dok.org>
I've had a perfectly wonderful evening. But this wasn't it.
     -- Groucho Marx


From jason at tishler.net  Fri Apr 30 15:30:31 2004
From: jason at tishler.net (Jason Tishler)
Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2004 15:30:31 -0400
Subject: Python Image Library (PIL) build error on Cygwin
In-Reply-To: <40928190.5060004@holdenweb.com>
References: <tBdkc.8799$f_5.5103@lakeread01>
	<mailman.127.1083272332.25742.python-list@python.org>
	<40928190.5060004@holdenweb.com>
Message-ID: <20040430193031.GA1728@tishler.net>

Steve,

On Fri, Apr 30, 2004 at 12:40:48PM -0400, Steve Holden wrote:
> Yup, now I can't find the Tk library,

Does the following from the Cygwin Python README help?

    4. _tkinter users should note that Cygwin tcltk is really a Win32
    package and hence, does *not* understand Cygwin style paths.  To use
    the _tkinter module you must define the following environment
    variables:

        $ export TCL_LIBRARY=$(cygpath -w /usr/share/tcl$version)
        $ export TK_LIBRARY=$(cygpath -w /usr/share/tk$version)

Jason

-- 
PGP/GPG Key: http://www.tishler.net/jason/pubkey.asc or key servers
Fingerprint: 7A73 1405 7F2B E669 C19D  8784 1AFD E4CC ECF4 8EF6



From mark at prothon.org  Tue Apr 27 19:48:48 2004
From: mark at prothon.org (Mark Hahn)
Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2004 16:48:48 -0700
Subject: What is good about Prothon?
References: <bniq80hiib0gauiltuntk9jvia2getbnj4@4ax.com>
	<69cbbef2.0404271534.6a7c90e6@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <oiCjc.9622$Qy.6230@fed1read04>

has wrote:

> (Note: scripts are compiled, so you'll need a Mac to view source.)

Can you at least make a screen snapshot available or something for the "rest
of us"?




From vineet at eswap.com  Mon Apr  5 21:07:15 2004
From: vineet at eswap.com (Vineet Jain)
Date: Mon, 5 Apr 2004 21:07:15 -0400
Subject: int('2.1') does not work while int(float('2.1')) does
Message-ID: <KPENJIMKHJPNKOLFIHBNGECHCGAA.vineet@eswap.com>

int('2.1') does not work while int(float('2.1')) does. If int can covert a
float object then there is no reason why a float string should not be
converted too.

When I do int('2.1') I get the following error:

>>> a = int('2.0')
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
ValueError: invalid literal for int(): 2.0

This does not seem very pythonic

VJ




From reverse.ku.oc.issolok at nothypgnal.delrest.co.uk  Wed Apr 28 05:12:46 2004
From: reverse.ku.oc.issolok at nothypgnal.delrest.co.uk (Paul Sweeney)
Date: Wed, 28 Apr 2004 09:12:46 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: debugging code
References: <3064b51d.0404271139.6ec7057@posting.google.com>
	<408ee541$0$46510$39cecf19@news.twtelecom.net>
Message-ID: <c6nsie$510$1@sparta.btinternet.com>

"Rick Ratzel" <rick.ratzel at magma-da.com> wrote in message
news:408ee541$0$46510$39cecf19 at news.twtelecom.net...
>
> Python defines __debug__ to True by default, and False when
> optimizations are enabled...meaning you can enable/disable code without
> having to define/undefine vars ahead of time and without having to
> change it prior to deployment.  This is how the "assert" statement
> works.

I agree with Rick on using __debug__ not your own variables, as suggested
elsewhere

> You can only set __debug__ through the use of -O or -OO.

There is a  typo here (but all the examples that followed were correct), You
can only set __debug__ *to False* through the use of -O or -OO.





From peter at engcorp.com  Mon Apr 12 18:01:07 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2004 18:01:07 -0400
Subject: I am puzled about numbers
In-Reply-To: <107m446tlvs9u01@corp.supernews.com>
References: <107lvs6mree8pee@corp.supernews.com>
	<107m446tlvs9u01@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <4NqdnV5ZNrU-jObdRVn-hA@powergate.ca>

A Evans wrote:

> which brings me to another question seeing these patterns I am making with
> numbers how random is the random function in python I mean is it really
> possible for a computer to think randomly or is it a pattern like this

Google can help with such questions, and it's a very good idea to get
in the habit of checking there first when faced with a question like
this about computers.  Using the search "all about random numbers"
I quickly found this:

http://www.krellinst.org/UCES/archive/modules/monte/node1.html

There are dozens and dozens of other such pages.

-Peter


From ben.held at staarinc.com  Fri Apr  2 13:27:05 2004
From: ben.held at staarinc.com (Ben Held)
Date: 2 Apr 2004 10:27:05 -0800
Subject: Major memory leak during embedding Python in C++
Message-ID: <ce7b3488.0404021027.fddab8a@posting.google.com>

Having recently upgraded to Python 2.4, I am having a large memory
leak with the following code built with VC++ 6.0:

		PyObject *pName, *pModule;

		Py_Initialize();
		pName = PyString_FromString(argv[1]);

		pModule = PyImport_Import(pName);
		Py_DECREF(pName);

		PyObject* pModule2 = PyImport_ReloadModule(pModule);
		Py_DECREF(pModule2);
		Py_DECREF(pModule);
		Py_Finalize();
		return 0;

I get leaks of over 500 kb.  I have another program which is much more
complex, in which every call to PyImport_ReloadModule is leaking 200+
kb, even though I am calling Py_DECREF correctly.

Help!


From jbperez808 at wahoo.com  Tue Apr 27 12:40:42 2004
From: jbperez808 at wahoo.com (Jon Perez)
Date: 27 Apr 2004 16:40:42 GMT
Subject: CPU usage of Python interpreter doing empty while loop under XP
References: <c6kogu$cvgah$1@ID-180326.news.uni-berlin.de>
	<7kpr805ou6g8ucm9rok4nodkolcp02viig@4ax.com>
	<c6l61u$d0o8n$1@ID-180326.news.uni-berlin.de>
	<sZSdne1DBrSe2BPdRVn-sQ@powergate.ca>
Message-ID: <c6m2e8$dhqd7$1@ID-180326.news.uni-berlin.de>

Peter Hansen wrote:

> How does that help your debugging?  That will tell us whether
> sleep(0) is a better alternative, or whether there is really
> something else you should be doing instead.
>
> (I have never had occasion to use "while 1: pass" in Python, ever.)
> 
> -Peter

I'm trying to debug an event-driven framework I wrote myself and 
there are some iffy situations where a quick and dirty way to halt 
execution and view the state of some variables with print is to 
insert a while 1: pass (or sleep(0)).

The only reason sleep(0) is better than pass in my situation
is that when I try to do other things under the OS before I've 
had a chance to break out of the program, I don't get a slowdown.


From sean at sands.beach.net  Tue Apr 27 13:45:42 2004
From: sean at sands.beach.net (Sean Berry)
Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2004 17:45:42 GMT
Subject: Could someone explain this to a newbie
Message-ID: <a%wjc.197$ph.161@fed1read07>

>>> text = 'zone "southernpine.com" {'
>>> text.lstrip("zone \"")
'southernpine.com" {'

This is expected.


>>> text = 'zone "newsouthpine.com" {'
>>> text.lstrip("zone \"")
'wsouthpine.com" {'

This is not.

What happened to the ne...

I suppose that is the secret, because I have 
tried with other words beginning with ne and 
they do not work either.

-- 


From tismer at stackless.com  Thu Apr  1 21:30:08 2004
From: tismer at stackless.com (Christian Tismer)
Date: Fri, 02 Apr 2004 04:30:08 +0200
Subject: Stackless Website down, Project gone, I'm dead.
Message-ID: <406CD030.5010506@stackless.com>

Dear Former Stackless Users,

I have to use this list to announce something really bad to you,
since all the Stackless lists are defunct:

The Stackless project is finally dead, now and forever.

If this doesn't affect you, please don't worry and just
ignore it. I don't take any responsibilities for any
harm brought to you, your family or your descendants
because of this message, because I'm finally gone.

Here is the really sad story, for all who care.
-----------------------------------------------

I can't tell how sorry I am, since I really wanted it to
survive until its sucessor, namely PyPy, is mature. But
reality is cruel, and truth is no longer something that
I can change with my small brains. I'm too old and
burned out, now.

On Mach 31st, some bad intruder has broken into our CVS
server. (S)he has replaced all of our files by some
dummy entries. This was quite bad, since the new Stackless
developer group was happily hacking on after the sprint,
March 10-14, and we were updating CVS on a very frequent basis.

As a result, all sources of Stackless Python are totally lost, now.

Since I always was a very emotion driven guy, I thought this
was the right situation to say good-bye to you all. My life
is ending, soon, and so is my project. We could try to find some
backups, but I do say NO!, Please, do appropriate cleanup!

Some more reasoning: The fact that this happened to me, as a more
than old IT specialist, tells its own story about my deficiencies.
Having grown beyond the age of 50, I don't deserve to lead a young
and eager group of developers, anymore. Instead, I should provide
them all with the survival pack to start their own endeavor. This
is what I was trying, under the hood, till today.

I hereby ask everybody who still happens to have an old, maybe
valid copy of the repository, to update it soon. It will be
vaporized in seconds, as well, and this is the path to go.
I don't want any Stackless repository to survive bejond myself!

The evil truth of real life has told me where my path is headed
to. Please make no attempt to revive Stackless. It is completely
dead, and I'm going to take it with me into my cold, lonely grave.

I have spent the rest of my time on it, and now I want to rest
on it, since my time is over. So please avoid to mention it
any longer, not in news, not in interviews, and *please*
absolutely don't use it!!!
Stackless is gone, Tismer is gone, and this is good, since I
already have told you all the lies that I could tell you in a
lifetime.

Rest In Peace forever with   -- Stackfull Python --

p.s.: I've taken the capsule, short time ago.
p.p.s.: This message was sent to you on April 2, to make
sure that it is not misinterpreted as a bad April 1 joke.
The bad joke was about that bad intruder. See you soon,
in heaven or somehwere else :-)

AAAAAAAHRGGGGG +:+    hi grandma::::    you're here???
-- 
Christian Tismer             :^)   <mailto:tismer at stackless.com>
Mission Impossible 5oftware  :     Have a break! Take a ride on Python's
Johannes-Niemeyer-Weg 9a     :    *Starship* http://starship.python.net/
14109 Berlin                 :     PGP key -> http://wwwkeys.pgp.net/
work +49 30 89 09 53 34  home +49 30 802 86 56  mobile +49 173 24 18 776
PGP 0x57F3BF04       9064 F4E1 D754 C2FF 1619  305B C09C 5A3B 57F3 BF04
      whom do you want to sponsor today?   http://www.stackless.com/





From jwei at ciena.com  Wed Apr 28 16:11:42 2004
From: jwei at ciena.com (jianchiwei)
Date: Wed, 28 Apr 2004 20:11:42 -0000
Subject: asp script engine registrition
Message-ID: <c6p35u+md6e@eGroups.com>

question:
I run 
c:\python23\Lib\site-packages\win32comext\axscript\client\pyscript.py
and it told me
Registered: Python
Registration of Python ActiveX Scripting Engine complete.

But, when I run a asp script

<%@LANGUAGE=Python%>
<HTML>
<head></head>
<body>
<h1>Python - Test</h1>

</body>
</html>

I still get
    HTTP/1.1 500 Server Error
caused by the first line of code "<%@LANGUAGE=Python%>".
It seems to me that python script engine is not correctly registered.
Could someone help me on this please?
Thanks
J.W.






From imbosol at aerojockey.invalid  Tue Apr 20 00:44:57 2004
From: imbosol at aerojockey.invalid (Carl Banks)
Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 04:44:57 GMT
Subject: module parameters
References: <cab22418.0404191922.30975961@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <dV1hc.40827$B%4.6473@fe2.columbus.rr.com>

Jim Jewett wrote:
> 
> 
> I have often wanted to pass arguments to a module.  
> 
> Tyically, these are globals, such as DEBUG or VERBOSE that are set 
> at the top of the module -- and I want to use a different value.  
> For modules that provide a service (such as logging), I would like 
> to make my changes before the defaults are set up.
> 
> Assuming that the loaded module is cooperative, what is the least 
> ugly way to pass these parameters?
> 
> (1)  Alter/Check __builtins__
> (2)  Alter/Check a "well-known" module, such as settings, for an 
> attribute named after the loading module.*
> (3)  Alter/check a modsettings module specific to module mod.
> (4)  Use an import hook
> (5)  Accept that there will be some inefficiencies and reset after 
> the initial load.
> 
> * I'm not aware of any such well-known module yet, but if others 
> agree that it sounds like a good idea, I will write one.


I'm not sure if it's a common enough need to have a standard way to do
it, if that's what you're suggesting.  I suspect most programmers, if
they do use such module "arguments", will design it so that they can
be set after the module is imported.  In fact, this is what I
recommend.  (Then again, there is PEP 329 on the table.)

But, if you really need these arguments set before importing the
module, then I recommend #2, and the well-known module to use is
__main__.  __main__ is the top level module, the one where the program
begins.  Just set whatever arguments you need at the top-level, and
have the cooperating module import __main__ and use whatever it needs.


-- 
CARL BANKS                      http://www.aerojockey.com/software
"If you believe in yourself, drink your school, stay on drugs, and
don't do milk, you can get work." 
          -- Parody of Mr. T from a Robert Smigel Cartoon


From jack at performancedrivers.com  Fri Apr  9 18:50:20 2004
From: jack at performancedrivers.com (Jack Diederich)
Date: Fri, 9 Apr 2004 18:50:20 -0400
Subject: automatically generating file dependency information from
	python tools
In-Reply-To: <bhFdc.50011$bE2.25447@newssvr25.news.prodigy.com>
References: <bhFdc.50011$bE2.25447@newssvr25.news.prodigy.com>
Message-ID: <20040409225020.GA15371@performancedrivers.com>

On Fri, Apr 09, 2004 at 10:16:39PM +0000, Moosebumps wrote:
> Say you have a group of 20 programmers, and they're all writing python
> scripts that are simple data crunchers -- i.e. command line tools that read
> from one or more files and output one or more files.
> 
> I want to set up some sort of system that would automatically generate
> makefile type information from the source code of these tools.  Can anyone
> think of a good way of doing it?  You could make everyone call a special
> function that wraps the file() and detects whether they are opening the file
> for read or write.  If read, it's an input, if write, it's an output file
> (assume there is no r/w access).  Then I guess your special function would
> output the info in some sort of repository, which collects such info from
> all the individual data crunchers.
> 
> The other thing I could think of is statically analyzing the source code -- 
> but what if the filenames are generated dynamically?  I'd be interested in
> any ideas or links on this, I just started thinking about it today.  For
> some reason it seems to be a sort of problem to solve with metaclasses -- 
> but I haven't thought of exactly how.
> 

In answer to the question you /almost/ asked:

http://www.google.com/search?q=python+make+replacement



From steve at ninereeds.fsnet.co.uk  Tue Apr  6 22:52:14 2004
From: steve at ninereeds.fsnet.co.uk (Stephen Horne)
Date: Wed, 07 Apr 2004 03:52:14 +0100
Subject: OFF-TOPIC:: Why Lisp is not my favorite programming language
References: <165b3efa.0403030443.4d591f04@posting.google.com>
	<40460dd5$0$5916$7a628cd7@news.club-internet.fr>
	<d771b842.0403040735.3b5200ae@posting.google.com>
	<e87fc4b0.0403221114.254b7ee5@posting.google.com>
	<d771b842.0404061258.655b8e56@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <6in670lrldbjkuujle68a526293j57a7mn@4ax.com>

On 6 Apr 2004 13:58:45 -0700, nish20 at netzero.net (Mike Nishizawa)
wrote:

>mintiSPAMBLOCK at yahoo.com (Minti) wrote in message news:<e87fc4b0.0403221114.254b7ee5 at posting.google.com>...

>> However when some one says that the code might be 31.?
>> times slower as compared to C, kinda of scares me. Could assert such
>> figures. I know speed is not the one and only goal but just wondering
>> if these figures are correct.

It wouldn't surprise me. LISP is normally interpreted - maybe always,
though I'm not certain of that. The interpreter would be written in C.
And, depending on the implementation, the built-in list operations may
well be much more basic than those in Python, for instance, meaning
that more of the relatively sophisticated operations will be handled
using interpreted library code.

Python itself is at least 10 times slower than C for many things
(though the library often provides efficient algorithms that are
actually faster than anything you'd write for yourself even in C).

An implementation that has more of the standard operations built in,
or which used just-in-time compilation etc, may well run much faster.

>I would ask what the C program is doing.  If it beats LISP at it's own
>game which is, list processing, then that would be different.

It is always possible to beat any interpreted language for speed using
C if you are willing to put in the time and effort. 90% or more of
interpreters were written in C themselves, and by writing directly in
C you are avoiding the need for any interpreting at run-time.

>  I don't
>think I would choose to write an enterprise application in it, but I
>think it's as good a choice as anything for any type of parsing
>applications.  And to the smart guy who feels like he can take a stab
>at me for calling lisp a parsing language... consider:  a parser is,
>by definition, something that analyzes or separates (input, for
>example) into more easily processed components.  Let's take a
>document, for instance.  If I wanted to parse the document and
>separate it into words, I would write a parser to do so. What is a
>document but a list of words separated by spaces... an especially good
>application for a LISt Processing language.

Parsing isn't that heavy in list processing. Neither is handling a
large document.

In parsing, you are mostly dealing with one symbol at a time. The way
you access that symbol, whether you read it directly from a file or
input stream at need or keep it in a memory buffer, is the least
significant thing going on in the parser. Though the work done by most
practical parsers at run-time (rather than when the parser tables are
generated from the grammar) is not that complex. In most cases in
parsing, the language is pretty much immaterial. Though the
table-generating for, for instance, an LR-style parser (basically what
a tool like yacc does) needs to do a lot of set operations on
potentially quite large sets, and some fairly time consuming searches
and closures. Basically, it's something I wouldn't want to do in Lisp
purely for speed reasons. I have done it in Python, and the result
wasn't exactly practical - though it probably could have been with
more work and some C extension optimisations.

With large documents, while you can see the document as being a
(potentially huge) list of characters or words, you wouldn't want to
use a simple flat list data structure, again for performance reasons.
You wouldn't use a linked list because it would take too much time to
iterate through, not to mention the potentially very large storage
overhead - two pointers for a doubly-linked list takes 8 bytes, more
than the average word, and that's not even considering mallocs
rounding-up-to-a-multiple-of-x-bytes overhead. You wouldn't use a
simple resizable array because of the time wasted on insertions and
deletions, shifting the tail end backward and forward in memory.

I've never done this for a mutable document (I have for an immutable
document, but you can get away with a lot in that case) but I figure
that I'd create a kind of database table of 'chunks', along with a few
indexes into that table (using either tree or hash based methods). And
style and other non-text information would probably mostly be
separated out into other tables, with their own indexes. ie I would
learn a trick or two from the relational database guys, who have been
handling large sets of data reliably and efficiently for a long time.

Actually, this in-memory relational database thing is quite a useful
technique. In particular, it helps to reinforce the idea of keeping
your main data in an easily accessible place, and not hidden deeply in
the private internals of various of classes - so when you need to do
something you didn't anticipate before, the data you need to access is
easily available with maybe just an extra method or two on your
datastore object. Data hiding should only be done with care IMO.

Anyway, again this isn't a very big issue in terms of language
selection. Python might be a pretty good choice, though, simply
because there is both a convenient data-table type (list of tuples)
and a convenient index type (dictionary) built-in and ready to go.
Though I suspect a C extension might be needed to get good performance
for a few operations with very large documents on slow machines.

C++ is also in the running with the STL containers - harder to use, a
little more flexible, hard to say on speed. Python may actually be
faster as hashing is normally faster than red-black trees for handling
indexes, but then hashes don't support efficient in-order iteration so
it depends on how the data is accessed as much as anything.


-- 
Steve Horne

steve at ninereeds dot fsnet dot co dot uk


From notarangelotonio_*_no_*_ at _*_*tiscali.it  Mon Apr 26 15:02:27 2004
From: notarangelotonio_*_no_*_ at _*_*tiscali.it (Tonio)
Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2004 19:02:27 GMT
Subject: Embedding Python in C++
Message-ID: <71djc.147368$Kc3.4878757@twister2.libero.it>

Hi
i'm a italian student.
I must create a virtual machine which call python script from Visual C++
program.
My teacher tell me use swig fror make this work.
I use Swig for import in Python class, object, variables of C++, but my
problem are when in C++ i must call script Python.
I find many article, but i don't find a working example.
Can you advise me how i call python script from C++?
Have you example which can you send me (in my email)?
(my script use only int, float, string and object, class).
Thanks.




From greg at cosc.canterbury.ac.nz  Tue Apr  6 01:03:24 2004
From: greg at cosc.canterbury.ac.nz (Greg Ewing)
Date: Tue, 06 Apr 2004 17:03:24 +1200
Subject: Python conference slogan
In-Reply-To: <slrnc720n6.sf.ramen@lackingtalent.com>
References: <mailman.189.1080759511.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<slrnc720n6.sf.ramen@lackingtalent.com>
Message-ID: <c4tdms$2mjvdq$2@ID-169208.news.uni-berlin.de>

Dave Benjamin wrote:
> Python: It starts with "P" and runs on Linux.
> ;)

Python: it starts with "P" and that rhymes with "C"
and that stands for Cool!

--
Greg Ewing, Computer Science Dept,
University of Canterbury,
Christchurch, New Zealand
http://www.cosc.canterbury.ac.nz/~greg



From junkmail at solumslekt.org  Fri Apr  2 17:53:11 2004
From: junkmail at solumslekt.org (Leif B. Kristensen)
Date: Sat, 03 Apr 2004 00:53:11 +0200
Subject: String concatenation
References: <wS8bc.4382$px6.64058@news2.e.nsc.no>
	<7xisgi24fm.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<Rz9bc.4514$zf6.60676@news4.e.nsc.no>
	<406D27A7.6550A00B@alcyone.com>
	<ZW9bc.4389$px6.64242@news2.e.nsc.no>
	<406D2CD5.878EBD4E@alcyone.com>
	<d9abc.4519$zf6.60744@news4.e.nsc.no>
	<406D2FA2.6E5118CC@alcyone.com>
	<YZhbc.4488$px6.65517@news2.e.nsc.no>
Message-ID: <i7mbc.4659$zf6.61729@news4.e.nsc.no>

The "feature" is also submitted to the KDE bugtrack, see
<url:http://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=60971>.

Apparently, "real programmers" don't cut and paste code samples from
KNode. Go figure.

regards,
-- 
Leif Biberg Kristensen
http://solumslekt.org/
Validare necesse est


From ramen at lackingtalent.com  Sun Apr  4 23:48:55 2004
From: ramen at lackingtalent.com (Dave Benjamin)
Date: Mon, 05 Apr 2004 03:48:55 -0000
Subject: Prothon, metaclasses, Zope [Was: A 'Python like' language]
References: <95aa1afa.0403272243.78d60724@posting.google.com>
	<95aa1afa.0404011933.5cc5e959@posting.google.com>
	<c4j08n$62h$1@panix2.panix.com>
	<95aa1afa.0404022235.3962343@posting.google.com>
	<c4n35a$7c3$1@panix3.panix.com>
Message-ID: <slrnc71mdd.sf.ramen@lackingtalent.com>

In article <c4n35a$7c3$1 at panix3.panix.com>, Aahz wrote:
> 
> Ick.  That's odd -- I thought my DNS provider didn't do that kind of
> thing, but I'm guessing they've been under such overload that they had
> to.  <sigh>  Please forward that message with full headers to
> a****y at p***x.com -- my local spam filters shouldn't trap it.

Just a few words of advice - never post your email address on Usenet unless:

 a) you don't mind getting flooded with spam, or
 b) you obfuscate it in some way
 
Especially given the context of this conversation, it made me wince when I
saw you post a secondary email address in plaintext to get around spam
problems with your primary one...

Peace,
Dave

-- 
.:[ dave benjamin: ramen/[sp00] -:- spoomusic.com -:- ramenfest.com ]:.
:  please talk to your son or daughter about parametric polymorphism. :


From peter at engcorp.com  Wed Apr 21 15:26:16 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2004 15:26:16 -0400
Subject: Time
In-Reply-To: <mailman.871.1082573147.20120.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.871.1082573147.20120.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <GpmdnUrULu5EVxvdRVn-sw@powergate.ca>

Jonas Galvez wrote:

> If I have a tuple like this:
> 
>     (year, month, day, hour, minute)
> 
> Is there a way to automatically generate a string like this?
> 
>     "YYYY-MM-DDTHH:MM:00"
> 
> I remember seeing something about it somewhere... wanted to be sure.

You want to read about the "time" module:

 >>> t = (2004, 4, 21, 15, 33)
 >>> import time
 >>> time.strftime('%Y-%m-%dT%H:%M:00', t+(0,0,0,0))
'2004-04-21T15:33:00'

I left the "T" in there as a literal because I don't know what you
meant it to be and there's no obvious single-character substitution.

-Peter


From tjreedy at udel.edu  Thu Apr 29 13:58:10 2004
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Thu, 29 Apr 2004 13:58:10 -0400
Subject: Subclasses in Python
References: <b4a8ffb6.0404221855.7239bb82@posting.google.com><mailman.945.1082708460.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<b4a8ffb6.0404290639.635aeca5@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <c6rfn9$v0j$1@sea.gmane.org>

You have needed edit already.  To explain a bit more ...

>     #Private methods for class Player
>     def __init__(self,name):
>         self.name = name
>         self.strength = self.__class__.initial_strength
>         self.__class__.n +=1
>         print self.__class__

print object # is same as
print str(object) # ie, prints stringifies everything

> Interestingly, if I do a class comparison of the form
>
> if self.__class__== Alien:
>     foo
> elif self.__class__== Player
>     bar
>
> The comparison proceeds correctly.

Here self.__class__ is left as the class object, as usual, and not
stringified.

> How can I get it to print the class
> name cleanly? Do I have to convert <class '__main__.Alien'> to a
> string

That is what you did to print it '-)

>and then use one or more string functions to clean it up?

Fortunately not.

Terry J. Reedy








From klapotec at chello.at  Thu Apr 29 17:12:48 2004
From: klapotec at chello.at (Christopher Koppler)
Date: Thu, 29 Apr 2004 21:12:48 GMT
Subject: Newbe-books
References: <Uldkc.29554$Qc.1128956@twister1.libero.it>
Message-ID: <ekr2905p04fe3a667aejluqq4gb0fit5af@4ax.com>

On Thu, 29 Apr 2004 20:13:40 GMT, Sarge <sarge at arena.invalid> wrote:

>Hi,
>I'm newbe of python, but not of programming (a lot of Matlab, some 
>C, a bit of C++), I want a *good* book on python for self-study.
>I'm short of money, I don't want to make any mistakes, so does 
>anybody have any suggestions (buy this-don't buy that)?
>

You could always search this group's archive via Google groups for
opinions, this question comes up quite frequently.
My personal preference, coming from a relatively similar background,
would be O'Reilly's Learning Python, which is now out in a second
edition covering the new features up to Python 2.3.
But why not try the online tutorial(s) and reference, combined with
the interactive experience that Python gives you, it's usually all you
need if you're already familiar with programming in general.

--
Christopher


From fumanchu at amor.org  Tue Apr 13 13:29:06 2004
From: fumanchu at amor.org (Robert Brewer)
Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2004 10:29:06 -0700
Subject: Does Python compete with Java?
Message-ID: <DE1CF2B4FEC4A342BF62B6B2B334601E561FEF@opus.amorhq.net>

Jakub Fast wrote:
> not-very-readable syntax: operator overloads and static 
> methods. is this an issue that is argued over?

Those are (at least) two issues, but, yes, they are argued over. You
might want to search comp.lang.python and the python-dev mailing list
for examples of each; there are quite a few.

The syntax for staticmethod (and classmethod, etc.) is currently being
discussed in terms of decorators in PEP 318:
http://www.python.org/peps/pep-0318.html. The use of a new keyword
'static' is not a dictator-approved option, IIRC; however, other
syntaxes are being actively developed. Read the PEP.

Generic syntax mangling (like '~~>') is not happening anytime soon, I
don't think. Again, you should probably search python-dev for a
pronouncement from Guido on that issue, but previous conversations we've
had here generally end with some Pythonista saying:

"LISP is over there ==>"

Saying, in effect, that it isn't Pythonic.

Greg Ewing was thinking specifically on getting "and", "or" and "not" to
be overridable:
http://groups.google.com/groups?group=comp.lang.python.*&selm=c1bobu%241
g1p9e%241%40ID-169208.news.uni-berlin.de&rnum=1 
I'm not sure how far he got, but I'd still appreciate it myself (Greg?
<:) I'm still using & | and - instead, since those are overridable.


Robert Brewer
MIS
Amor Ministries
fumanchu at amor.org



From gerrit at nl.linux.org  Tue Apr 20 07:03:43 2004
From: gerrit at nl.linux.org (Gerrit)
Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 13:03:43 +0200
Subject: How to check if a path *could* be a legal path?
In-Reply-To: <c62ums$b3b$1@atlantis.news.tpi.pl>
References: <c62ums$b3b$1@atlantis.news.tpi.pl>
Message-ID: <20040420110343.GB17588@nl.linux.org>

Maciej Sobczak wrote:
> 1.
> s = 'C:\file.txt'
> 
> the above is potentially a valid path on my system.
> 
> 2.
> s = 'cc:/^- =#jk\kj+.+?! :-)'
> 
> the above is rather invalid and I would like to check it somehow before 
> I even try to create the file.
> 
> Does the Python library contain a functionality that allows to achieve 
> this goal?

No.
It's different on different platforms.
On Unix, for example, everything without \0 (ascii 0) is legal.
I don't know the rules Windows needs, but apparantly they are more
strict, or else the second path would be potentially valid as well.

There may be a 3rd party package that has this functionality, however,
or something in a windows-specific package.

Can't you pass it to exists? Maybe os.path.exists makes a different
between ENOENT and invalid paths...

Gerrit.

-- 
Weather in Twenthe, Netherlands 20/04 12:25:
	12.0?C Scattered clouds partly cloudy wind 4.0 m/s SSW (57 m above NAP)
-- 
Experiences with Asperger's Syndrome:
	EN http://topjaklont.student.utwente.nl/english/
	NL http://topjaklont.student.utwente.nl/



From tjreedy at udel.edu  Fri Apr 30 20:40:19 2004
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2004 20:40:19 -0400
Subject: calling functions at the same time
References: <c6udda$qpv$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu><1095ijdb5jotvf1@corp.supernews.com>
	<c6unuq$d0f$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu>
Message-ID: <c6urlb$pia$1@sea.gmane.org>


"Bart Nessux" <bart_nessux at hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:c6unuq$d0f$1 at solaris.cc.vt.edu...
> I need to ping 4 hosts at exactly the same time from the  same machine (I
> plan to timestamp the pings) to test and measure network conditions over
> different routes to different hosts. Putting all the ping hosts in a list
> and looping through it is not a fair or balanced way to do this because
of
> the time differences.

If you do 24 trials, one for each permutation, the result would be about as
fair and balanced as you can get.

Terry J. Reedy






From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Mon Apr 12 22:20:26 2004
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 12 Apr 2004 22:20:26 -0400
Subject: list comprehensions
References: <yjZcc.42823$Pk3.9547@pd7tw1no> <c56n0j$9r8$1@panix1.panix.com>
	<slrnc7m71l.2id.ramen@lackingtalent.com>
Message-ID: <c5fipa$gou$1@panix3.panix.com>

In article <slrnc7m71l.2id.ramen at lackingtalent.com>,
Dave Benjamin  <ramen at lackingtalent.com> wrote:
>In article <c56n0j$9r8$1 at panix1.panix.com>, Aahz wrote:
>> In article <yjZcc.42823$Pk3.9547 at pd7tw1no>,
>> Elaine Jackson <elainejackson7355 at home.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>List comprehensions don't work the way you intuitively expect them
>>>to work. I realize many people have no intuitions about how list
>>>comprehensions 'should' work, so if you recognize yourself in this
>>>description, feel free to go back to whatever you were doing before. If
>>>you're still here, though, I invite you to consider the following
>>>definition:
>> 
>> Short response: don't write complex listcomps.
>
>Would you consider a 2D loop too complex for a listcomp?

It depends.  If it's something simple, go ahead.  If you've got an
``if`` or a complex expression, I'd think real hard.
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

Why is this newsgroup different from all other newsgroups?


From klappnase at web.de  Tue Apr 27 05:37:06 2004
From: klappnase at web.de (klappnase)
Date: 27 Apr 2004 02:37:06 -0700
Subject: Question on creating Tkinter Widgets
References: <jcijc.3852$g31.1644@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <a7a67196.0404270137.674929ec@posting.google.com>

"Adonis" <adonisv at REMTHISearthlink.net> wrote in message news:<jcijc.3852$g31.1644 at newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net>...
> I am creating some widgets by inheriting from Tkinter.Frame and populating
> the frame with whatever the widget will be then creating certain
> attributes/methods to be accessed later. My question is, is this a poper way
> to create widgets or should I take a different approach?
> 
> Any help is greatly appreciated.
> 
> Adonis

So far this sounds perfectly "proper" to me.
Usually when I create my own widgets it looks like:

class Mywidget(Tkinter.Frame):
    def __init__(self, master, special_attribute='default', *args, **kw):
        Tkinter.Frame.__init__(self, master, *args, **kw)
        <widget's contents......>

    def widget_method1(self):
        <.......>

(etc.)

Sounds like you are doing quite the same.

Regards

Michael


From No.Spam.mc at No.Spam.mclaveau.No.Spam.com  Sun Apr 18 14:13:10 2004
From: No.Spam.mc at No.Spam.mclaveau.No.Spam.com (Michel Claveau/Hamster)
Date: Sun, 18 Apr 2004 20:13:10 +0200
Subject: Creating function object from text
References: <40815ab3$0$16479$61fed72c@news.rcn.com>
Message-ID: <c5ugfi$9jg$1@news-reader2.wanadoo.fr>

Bonjour !

Ce code fonctionne, chez moi :

    src='''def toto(i):
        return i*2'''

    exec src
    print toto(3)   # => 6



Mais, dans certains cas, je suis oblig? d'ajouter :
    global toto



Bonne soir?e !

--
Michel Claveau




From antivirus at mairs.de  Thu Apr  1 03:55:45 2004
From: antivirus at mairs.de (antivirus at mairs.de)
Date: Thu, 01 Apr 2004 10:55:45 +0200
Subject: Sicherheitshinweis
Message-ID: <20040401091132.63FD2AFF3@mail.mairs.de>

Eine Mail, die von dieser Adresse versendet wurde, enth?lt m?glicherweise einen Virus. Aufgrund der Tatsache, dass viele aktuelle Viren und Mailw?rmer bestimmte Dateianh?nge verwenden, werden diese automatisch von unserem Server abgeblockt.  Bitte ?berpr?fen Sie Ihr System auf Viren oder geben Sie Ihrem System-Administrator Bescheid.

Viren und W?rmer f?lschen oft die Absenderadresse. M?glicherweise erreicht diese Meldung daher nicht den eigentlichen Verursacher. In diesem Fall bitten wir Sie, diese Nachricht zu ignorieren.

Sollten Sie bewusst eine Datei an eine unserer Mailadressen gesendet haben und diese wurde geblockt, m?chten wir Sie bitten, sich mit dem Empf?nger der Mail in Verbindung zu setzen.


A mail sent by this account is possibly infected with a virus. Viruses and worms often use mail attachments with special extensions, that are blocked by our server. Please check your system for viruses, or ask your system administrator to do so.

Viruses and worms often fake the sender address of a mail. Perhaps you are not the sender of this email. If so, please excuse and ignore this mail.

If You wanted to send us a file that was blocked, please contact the recipient of the mail.


From: python-list at python.org
To: spamfalle at mairs.de

Subject: *****SPAM***** Mail Delivery (failure datenschutz at falk.de)

Matching Subject: *mail delivery (failure*





From jepler at unpythonic.net  Tue Apr 20 14:50:59 2004
From: jepler at unpythonic.net (Jeff Epler)
Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 13:50:59 -0500
Subject: Getting output from embedded python program
In-Reply-To: <c63i77$kfq$1@balena.cs.interbusiness.it>
References: <2aa196bb.0404190554.74631058@posting.google.com>
	<4084B179.6020807@magma-da.com>
	<c63i77$kfq$1@balena.cs.interbusiness.it>
Message-ID: <20040420185058.GF2937@unpythonic.net>

PyRun_File expects dicts for both the third and fourth parameters.
The code you wrote appears to use one module object and one dict object,
but in the (incomplete, non-runnable) code you included, you didn't even
initialize evalModule/evalDict until after the PyRun_File call, nor did
you check for failures along the way.

Jeff



From Kyler at news.Lairds.org  Wed Apr  7 21:08:21 2004
From: Kyler at news.Lairds.org (Kyler Laird)
Date: Thu, 08 Apr 2004 01:08:21 GMT
Subject: Pyrex list is down
References: <mailman.316.1081033683.20120.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <74jek1-3qs.ln1@snout.lairds.org>

Paul Prescod <paul at prescod.net> writes:

>It seems like nothing has gone in or out for days:

>http://lists.copyleft.no/pipermail/pyrex/2004-April/thread.html

I hate mailing lists anyway.  I'd much rather use Usenet.

I automatically select any articles in this group with "pyrex"
in the subject.

--kyler


From project2501 at project2501.cor  Wed Apr  7 06:27:58 2004
From: project2501 at project2501.cor (project2501)
Date: Wed, 07 Apr 2004 11:27:58 +0100
Subject: python thread scheduler?
References: <pan.2004.04.07.10.19.01.609000@project2501.cor>
Message-ID: <pan.2004.04.07.10.27.57.297000@project2501.cor>


to clarifgy, i'm seeing responec times as low as 0.3 seconds when the
client has 5 worker threads... rising to an average of about 8 seconds
with 50 threads... and more ith 100 threads.

here is what the python threads do (simplified):
	while (work units remaining):
		take time
		send request to server
		get responce from server
		take time
		record time difference
		sleep for a small interval (to yield, and to vary the request rate)
		reduce work unit by 1

i get flat graphs of responce time against request rate (which
doubles a specified number of times, after 10 work units. 

i would expect the graphs to start to vary non-linearly ... especially at
higher numbers of threads (say 50 or more) and request rates of 256 per
second or more ... 


From greg at cosc.canterbury.ac.nz  Thu Apr 29 07:01:14 2004
From: greg at cosc.canterbury.ac.nz (greg)
Date: Thu, 29 Apr 2004 23:01:14 +1200
Subject: ANN: Pyrex 0.9.1
Message-ID: <mailman.1083241745.20353.clpa-moderators@python.org>

Pyrex 0.9.1 is now available:

http://www.cosc.canterbury.ac.nz/~greg/python/Pyrex/

Enhancements:

* Calling of inherited C methods

* Python class __modname__ is set properly

* Test suite available for download

Plus numerous bug fixes -- see CHANGES.txt in the
distribution or on the web page for details.

What is Pyrex?
--------------

Pyrex is a new language for writing Python extension modules.
It lets you freely mix operations on Python and C data, with
all Python reference counting and error checking handled
automatically.




From deetsNOSPAM at web.de  Tue Apr 27 08:15:32 2004
From: deetsNOSPAM at web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2004 14:15:32 +0200
Subject: Regular Expressions
References: <c6j0ht$ed0$1@atlantis.news.tpi.pl>
	<c6j3sc$br0hn$1@ID-111250.news.uni-berlin.de>
	<c6lhh8$dsi$1@nemesis.news.tpi.pl>
Message-ID: <c6ljdv$db9kl$1@ID-111250.news.uni-berlin.de>

..:: sjf ::.. wrote:
> Thanks. And now, let's assume that I have a following strings:
> S1 = "B - TYPE2: any_text_2 TYPE3: any_text_23"
> S2 = "C - TYPE2: any_text_3"
> 
> and I want to have one regular expression that produce only following
> data: ("B", "any_text_2")
> ("C", "any_text_3")
> that is, any characters starting TYPE3 till end will be omitted.
> How do make this?

r"(.) TYPE. : ([^ ]*)"

-- 
Regards,

Diez B. Roggisch


From p_s_oberoi at hotmail.com  Wed Apr 28 00:27:42 2004
From: p_s_oberoi at hotmail.com (Paramjit Oberoi)
Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2004 23:27:42 -0500
Subject: Is Perl *that* good?
References: <c6ich0$c5mee$1@ID-205437.news.uni-berlin.de>
	<iL3jc.232$Yc.2330@news4.e.nsc.no>
	<108q51j4dscn7dc@corp.supernews.com>
	<knbjc.267$id.3998@news2.e.nsc.no>
	<pan.2004.04.26.20.50.19.843510@hotmail.com>
	<87fzaqmm8t.fsf@strauser.com>
	<38ec68a6.0404262308.50029919@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.49.1083084698.25742.python-list@python.org>
	<pan.2004.04.27.18.15.56.169064@hotmail.com>
	<Z_Bjc.1397$ZD3.139@fe1.columbus.rr.com>
Message-ID: <pan.2004.04.28.04.27.40.455672@hotmail.com>

>> if myregex.match(line):
>>    xyz = myregex.lastm.group('xyz')
> 
> Hmm.  The reason this hasn't been done is that it makes the match
> method non-reentrant.  For example, suppose you call some functions in
> between the matching and use of the matched object, like this:

Another thing in perl that makes regexes convenient is the 'default'
variable $_.  So, maybe the following could be done:

line_a = re.compile(...)
line_b = re.compile(...)

rx = re.context()
for rx.text in sys.stdin:
    if rx(line_a).match():
        total += a_function() + rx[1]
    elif rx(r'^msg (?P<text>.*)$').match():
        print rx['text']
    elif rx(line_b).match(munge(text)):
        print 'munged text matches'

    // similarly rx.{search, sub, ...}

But, as Peter Hansen pointed out, maybe this is more suited to a personal
utility module...  What are the considerations for whether something
should or shouldn't be in the standard library?


From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Sun Apr 11 01:20:34 2004
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 11 Apr 2004 01:20:34 -0400
Subject: new-style class instance check
References: <c59uvd$fgh$1@apollon.grec.isp.9tel.net>
Message-ID: <c5akj2$98h$1@panix2.panix.com>

In article <c59uvd$fgh$1 at apollon.grec.isp.9tel.net>,
Richard Gruet <rjgruet at yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>How to determine that an object o is for sure an instance of a new-style
>class, without knowing of which specific class ?
>That is, if I define a function:
>
>def isNewStyleClassInstance(o):
>    pass    ## to be completed
>
>.. I want to pass the following test:
>
>def C: pass
>def CNew(object): pass
>
>assert not isNewStyleClassInstance(C()) # InstanceType
>assert isNewStyleClassInstance(CNew())
>assert not isNewStyleClassInstance(1)    # instance of type int
># and naturally for all other types of o the function should return False.

class UserClass(object): pass

class CNew(UserClass): pass

You can automate this within a module by setting __metaclass__.
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

Why is this newsgroup different from all other newsgroups?


From loic at yermat.net1.nerim.net  Wed Apr 28 15:17:17 2004
From: loic at yermat.net1.nerim.net (Yermat)
Date: Wed, 28 Apr 2004 21:17:17 +0200
Subject: Path ... where is my application's home dir?
In-Reply-To: <Xns94D9B0A6BEE74duncanrcpcouk@127.0.0.1>
References: <mailman.81.1083164606.25742.python-list@python.org>
	<Xns94D9B0A6BEE74duncanrcpcouk@127.0.0.1>
Message-ID: <c6ovte$5im$1@biggoron.nerim.net>

Duncan Booth a ?crit :
> Tim Golden <tim.golden at viacom-outdoor.co.uk> wrote in 
> news:mailman.81.1083164606.25742.python-list at python.org:
> 
> 
>>>And yes, the best place to store this information would be in 
>>>the user's 
>>>home dir, but then: Where is it? How to find it under Windows - every 
>>>version of windows changes the place for home dirs. It would 
>>>be nice to 
>>>have something like this in a system/version independet way:
>>>
>>>sys.users_home_dir
>>>
>>>Is there anything like it in Python?
>>
>>There's nothing that strictly does that. You could
>>use os.path.expanduser ("~") but in Windows (at least
>>on my Win2K box) it returns "c:/" which is just about
>>acceptable for a one-user machine, but obviously not
>>for multi-user.
>>
>>The usual way to do this on Windows is to use the
>>winshell functions from pywin32:
>>
>><code>
>>from win32com.shell import shell, shellcon
>>print shell.SHGetPathFromIDList (
>>  shell.SHGetSpecialFolderLocation (0, shellcon.CSIDL_APPDATA)
>>)
>></code>
>>
>>which, on my machine, gives:
>>
>>C:\Documents and Settings\goldent\Application Data
> 
> 
> A simpler way to get the same information:
> 
> import os
> print os.environ['APPDATA']
> 

And for the user dir, you can do (at least on Win2000, not try elsewhere) :
os.getenv('HOMEDRIVE') + os.getenv('HOMEPATH')

-- 
Yermat



From peter at engcorp.com  Sat Apr 24 13:20:21 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Sat, 24 Apr 2004 13:20:21 -0400
Subject: command-line args
In-Reply-To: <408A9C33.4070401@mlug.missouri.edu>
Message-ID: <E1BHQpC-00081C-TU@mail.python.org>

(Michael, I'm keeping this on the mailing list, if you don't
mind.  I prefer not answering offline questions, unless the
customer is a paying one. ;-)

Michael [mailto:mogmios at mlug.missouri.edu] wrote:
> Peter Hansen wrote:
> > Michael wrote:
> > >What do you do about multiple processes (of the same program) 
> > >running at once?  Save to /tmp/<pid>/globals.py or something like 
> > >that?
> >
> >Why would you save anything?  If you're just parsing command-line 
> >arguments, the settings are not persistent, are they?  Just kept in 
> >memory for the duration of the current program.  If you have multiple 
> >processes, each gets its own command line arguments and thus its own 
> >in-memory values from globals.py.
> >
> In what way can you create a module and import it from other 
> modules without saving it as a file?
> [snip]
> No interest in persisitance. What I'm doing right now creates 
> the globals_<pid>.py file when command-line options are 
> parsed and deletes
> globals_<pid>.py* when the program stops.

What I mean is this.

You create globals.py ahead of time, the usual way with a text
editor.  It can contain defaults if you wish, or be empty. E.g.:

(globals.py)
logging = False
userName = None
timeout = 5.0

Then you simply import this where you are doing the command-line
argument parsing:

import globals, getopt
opts, args = getopt.getopt(sys.argv[1:], 'at:fse:')  # or whatever
for opt, val in opts:
    if opt = '-t':
        globals.timeout = float(val)
    # etc etc


Then, elsewhere where you need to use the values, just do another
import.

(some code that needs to know the timeout)

import globals, time
time.sleep(globals.timeout)
# or whatever


There is no reason to create the .py file on the fly...

(This works because after the first import of a module inside an
application, subsequent imports do *not* re-read the .py file,
but simply get a reference to the already-imported module object
from the sys.modules dictionary.)

-Peter




From roy at panix.com  Mon Apr  5 21:02:24 2004
From: roy at panix.com (Roy Smith)
Date: Mon, 05 Apr 2004 21:02:24 -0400
Subject: Does Python compete with Java?
References: <8b336527.0404051337.51bb4a1b@posting.google.com>
	<1073su4etm95p35@news.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <roy-094613.21022405042004@reader1.panix.com>

"John Roth" <newsgroups at jhrothjr.com> wrote:
> recently some of the industry gurus have been questioning whether the 
> additional complexity of static typing and other Java complexities is 
> paying its weight as compared to Python, especially when used in a 
> TDD type development environment.

Yeah, tell me about it.  I've been playing around with some JSP stuff 
lately.  Here's a method I wrote:

    protected void doLogin (HttpServletRequest request,
                            HttpServletResponse response)
        throws ServletException
    {
        String name = (String) request.getParameter ("name");
        String password = (String) request.getParameter ("password");
        Connection connection = getDbConnection (request);

        try {
            LoginModel model = new LoginModel (connection);
            boolean loginIsValid = model.validate (name, password);

            if (loginIsValid) {
                makeMainPage (request);
                forward (request, response, "/main.jsp");
            } else {
                forward (request, response, "/badLogin.jsp");
            }
        }
        catch (SQLException exception) {
            throw new ServletException (exception);
        }
        catch (IOException exception) {
            throw new ServletException (exception);
        }
    }

It's just filled with extraneous crap that's only there to make the java  
complier happy and has nothing to do with the logic of my application.  
The type declarations and casts are just the beginning.  The interface 
I'm inheriting from requires that the only exception I throw be 
ServletException, so I need to catch all the others are re-throw.  
Here's what the same logic would look like in Python, as a mechanical 
transliteration:

    def doLogin (request, response):
        name = request.getParameter ("name");
        password = request.getParameter ("password");
        connection = getDbConnection (request);

        model = LoginModel (connection);
        loginIsValid = model.validate (name, password);

        if loginIsValid:
            makeMainPage (request);
            forward (request, response, "/main.jsp");
         else:
            forward (request, response, "/badLogin.jsp");
 
13 lines of code instead of the original 26!  This 2:1 ratio seems to be 
pretty typical in my experience.  It's not that I'm cramming more 
application logic onto each line in the Python version, it's that I'm 
getting rid of the fluff that takes up lines without adding anything 
useful.

The end result is that it's harder to write, and the effort that goes 
into making the compiler happy is that much less effort that I can put 
into making sure I really understand how my application should be 
designed, and testing it.  It's a seeing the forest for the trees kind 
of issue.

I think it's also a lot easier to read and understand the Python 
version.  Pretty much every line maps directly to the application logic, 
with very little overhead.

Found on the web (http://www-users.cs.york.ac.uk/~susan/joke/foot.htm)...

> How to Shoot Yourself In the Foot
> [....]
> Java
> You locate the Gun class, but discover that the Bullet  class is abstract, so 
> you extend it and write the missing part of the  implementation. Then you 
> implement the ShootAble  interface for your foot, and recompile the Foot 
> class. The interface lets the bullet call the doDamage method on the  Foot, 
> so the Foot can damage itself in the  most effective way. Now you run the 
> program, and call the doShoot  method on the instance of the Gun class. First 
> the Gun  creates an instance of Bullet, which calls the doFire  method on the 
> Gun. The Gun calls the hit(Bullet)  method on the Foot, and the instance of 
> Bullet  is passed to the Foot. But this causes an IllegalHitByBullet  
> exception to be thrown, and you die.

They don't have one for Python, but I expect it would be something like 
this:

You create a Foot object and call its shoot() method.  The bullet makes 
a hole in your foot, but by that time you've gotten dragged into a huge 
flamewar about the relative merits of spaces vs. tabs for indentation 
and barely notice the pain.


From fredrik at pythonware.com  Wed Apr 21 14:15:53 2004
From: fredrik at pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2004 20:15:53 +0200
Subject: Stupid Regex Question
References: <DE1CF2B4FEC4A342BF62B6B2B334601E562035@opus.amorhq.net>
	<c66d3k$m80$1@sea.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <c66do6$nud$1@sea.gmane.org>

Jonas Galvez wrote:

> And I do it by 'hand' hehe :-) I didn't do any 'top-posting' at all,

a few posts back, you "top-posted" a followup to your own post.

</F>






From alexanro at stud.ntnu.no  Sun Apr 18 18:02:20 2004
From: alexanro at stud.ntnu.no (=?iso-8859-1?q?Alexander_R=F8dseth?=)
Date: Mon, 19 Apr 2004 00:02:20 +0200
Subject: Pygame
References: <c5jdv2$s4$1@orkan.itea.ntnu.no>
	<xZydnfgqeaiK3ODdRVn-tw@powergate.ca>
	<c5jgvh$2m5$1@orkan.itea.ntnu.no>
	<mailman.620.1081958099.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<gandreas-33F0F9.12165314042004@news.mpls.visi.com>
	<c5jt79$8m6$1@orkan.itea.ntnu.no>
	<z4GdnXzhXbzZGuDdRVn-vg@powergate.ca>
Message-ID: <pan.2004.04.18.22.02.19.625997@stud.ntnu.no>

I pretty much agree with you, that Python should not become to huge.


> I ask again what you think should be the criteria for including
> something in the standard distribution.

I would say that Python should include anything that involves
hardware access on a relatively low level, and have the rest as
external modules and packages.

Access to fullscreen 2d-graphics, and possibly 3d-graphics as well
are just as "natural" as access to network cards, harddrives or any other
piece of hardware. I just don't see the logic in obmitting it.


- Alexander



From mwh at python.net  Thu Apr  1 12:25:26 2004
From: mwh at python.net (Michael Hudson)
Date: Thu, 1 Apr 2004 17:25:26 GMT
Subject: ANNOUNCE: 'goto' for Python
References: <mailman.236.1080833648.20120.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <m3u103vce1.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk>

Camilo Olarte <colarte at telesat.com.co> writes:

> >> Entrian Solutions is pleased to announce version 1.0 of the 'goto'
> >> module.
> >>
> >> This adds the 'goto' and 'comefrom' keywords to Python 2.3, adding
> >> flexibility to Python's control flow mechanisms and allowing Python
> >> programmers to use many common control flow idioms that were previously
> >> denied to them.
> 
> >>>>>>   What is the day today ? Oh yes the first of April !    <<<<<<
> 
> OOUCH ! I Almost believe it!

There's nothing to believe: it works!

Cheers,
mwh

-- 
 "Sturgeon's Law (90% of everything is crap) applies to Usenet."
 "Nothing guarantees that the 10% isn't crap, too."
                -- Gene Spafford's Axiom #2 of Usenet, and a corollary


From xiaohua_sun at yahoo.com  Sat Apr 17 02:15:30 2004
From: xiaohua_sun at yahoo.com (SunX)
Date: 16 Apr 2004 23:15:30 -0700
Subject: newbie question on gnuplot.py
References: <337e6cd5.0404152030.17da017e@posting.google.com>
	<hKMfc.18378$_I3.17152@twister.socal.rr.com>
Message-ID: <337e6cd5.0404162215.32424c00@posting.google.com>

Thank you Peter, and I forgot to mention it is running on Win/2000 and
XP, both had the same problem.  Also ran pgnuplot.exe, according to
README.  Nothing worked.  Has anyone had the luck of runnnig
gnuplot.py on windows?
Thanks again
Howard

"peter" <piotrus at sympatico.ca> wrote in message news:<hKMfc.18378$_I3.17152 at twister.socal.rr.com>...
> "SunX" <xiaohua_sun at yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:337e6cd5.0404152030.17da017e at posting.google.com...
> > I've got python, Numeric, gnuplot all installed but am having a hard
> > time to install gnuplot.py correctly.  Tried to follow the documents,
> > including the readme, ... but always getting "ImportError: No module
> > named gnuplot" or "ImportError: No module named Gnuplot".  And my
> > directorey only has _Gnuplot.py, not Gnuplot anyway.
> > Help please.
> 
> you should probably look where Gnuplot.py got installed (have no idea what
> platform you're on, or how you installed it) and make sure that this
> directory is in your PYTHONPATH..
> 
> also, since you're looking at plotting packages, you might want to check out
> matplotlib..
> cheers.
> peter


From ramen at lackingtalent.com  Mon Apr  5 02:57:19 2004
From: ramen at lackingtalent.com (Dave Benjamin)
Date: Mon, 05 Apr 2004 06:57:19 -0000
Subject: Fake post alert(was: Stackless Website down, Project gone,
	I'm dead.)
References: <20040402195104.186481807.eric@zomething.com>
	<mailman.345.1081134064.20120.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <slrnc721em.sf.ramen@lackingtalent.com>

In article <mailman.345.1081134064.20120.python-list at python.org>, Christian Tismer wrote:
> Eric @ Zomething wrote:
> 
>> someone identified as "Christian Tismer" <tismer at stackless.com> wrote:
>> 
>> 
>>>I don't deserve this honor, since I didn't write that nonsense.
>>>But many thanks, anyway.
>> 
>> 
>> per the headers rec'd-
>> 
>> this post:  gd31e.g.pppool.de ([80.185.211.30] 
>> the fool post:  gd31e.g.pppool.de ([80.185.211.30]
> 
> Yes, it was the same company network. Not going into details...
> 

Christian Tismer doesn't lock his workstation! I'm telling!! =)

Cheers,
Dave

-- 
.:[ dave benjamin: ramen/[sp00] -:- spoomusic.com -:- ramenfest.com ]:.
:  please talk to your son or daughter about parametric polymorphism. :


From __peter__ at web.de  Sun Apr  4 16:29:48 2004
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Sun, 04 Apr 2004 22:29:48 +0200
Subject: Processes with strange behavoir
References: <c4pgp1$a51$06$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <c4pr7s$j0t$07$1@news.t-online.com>

Markus Franz wrote:

> Today I created a script called load.py for using at the command line
> written in Python 2.3.
> This script should load as many websites as given on the comand line and
> print them with a seperation string to stdout. The loading was done in
> parallel. (I used processes for this.)
> 
> The script was started by the following command:
> 
> ./load.py en 58746 http://www.python.com
> 
> Well, everything was fine. Then I wanted to load a second website and so I
> started the script with the following command:
> 
> ./load.py en 58746 http://www.python.com http://www.linux.org
> 
> The behaviour was strange: The last website (http://www.linux.org) was
> loaded and printed twice.
> 
> Then I started the script for a third time with the following command:
> 
> ./load.py en 58746 http://www.python.com http://www.linux.org
> http://www.suse.com
> 
> The result was: First websites was loaded and shown once, second website
> twice, and the third website was loaded and shown for four times!
> 
> (This behaviour occurs with ANY address given to the script...)
> 
> 
> Does anybody know an answer to my problem???

I think the structure of your script should be

import os, sys
for arg in sys.argv[1:]:
    pid = os.fork()
    if pid == 0:
        print arg # placeholder for the download routine
        break

As you have omitted the break statement, each child will complete the for
loop and thus continue to fork() for the remaining entries in sys.argv[1:].

Peter



From moosebumps at moosebumps.com  Fri Apr  9 20:38:02 2004
From: moosebumps at moosebumps.com (Moosebumps)
Date: Sat, 10 Apr 2004 00:38:02 GMT
Subject: automatically generating file dependency information from
	python tools
References: <bhFdc.50011$bE2.25447@newssvr25.news.prodigy.com>
	<107eag4pnl2ar35@news.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <KlHdc.50050$ll3.36515@newssvr25.news.prodigy.com>

> I'm not entirely clear on what the purpose of this is. I normally
> think of "makefile" type information as something needed to compile
> a program. This is something that isn't usually needed for Python
> unless you're dealing with C extensions. Then I'd suggest looking at
> SCons (www.scons.org).

Well sorry for being so abstract, let me be a little more concrete.  I am
working at a video game company, and I have had some success using Python
for tools.  I am just thinking about ways to convince other people to use
it.  One way would be to improve the build processes, and be able to do
incremental builds of art assets without any additional effort from
programmers.  Basically I'm trying to find a way to do some work for free
with python.

The idea is that there are many different types of assets, e.g. 3D models,
textures/other images, animations, audio, spreadsheet data, etc.  Each of
these generally has some tool that converts it from the source format to the
format that is stored in the game on disk / in memory.  Hence they are
usually simple command line data crunchers.  They take some files as input
and just produce other files as output.

Currently, we don't have time to generate the dependency information
necessary for incremental building, so we generally just build everything
over again from scratch, which takes 20 PCs the entire night.  The problem
is that the pipeline changes frequently, and nothing is really documented,
especially the dependencies.  It would be nice if there was a way to
automatically get these from the individual data crunchers, which may be
written by many different people.  It eliminates the redundancy of having
dependency information in the source code of the individual tools, and also
in a separate file that specifies dependency info (like a makefile).

So instead rebuilding the whole game, or having to know exactly which files
to rebuild (which some people know, but many others don't), the "make" tool
would be able to read the dependency information generated, and check dates
on the source files to see what changes, and build the minimum number of
things to get the game up to date.  Currently lots of unnecessary things are
rebuilt constantly.

> What I'm getting is that you want to tie the individual programs
> to the files that they're processing. In other words, build a catalog
> of "if you have this kind of file, these are the availible programs that
> will process it."

Well, that is not exactly the point, but hopefully that information would
fall out of the automatic processing of the individual command line tools.

> So the basic question is: are the files coming in from the command
> line or are they built in? If the latter, I'd probably start out by
pulling
> strings that have a "." or a "/" or a "\" in them, and examining the
> context. Or look at calls to modules from the os.path library.

They could be either "statically" specified in the source code, or only
known at runtime.

> More than likely you'll find a number of patterns that can be
> processed and that will deal with the majority of programs. The
> thing is, if you've got a bunch of programmers doing that kind
> of work, they've probably fallen into habitual ways of coding
> the repetitive stuff.

Yes, that is true, and everything works OK now, but there are thousands and
thousands of lines of redundant code, and the build process is very slow.
I'm just trying to separate out the common parts of every tool, rather than
having all that information duplicated in dozens of little command line
utilities.

MB




From afriere at yahoo.co.uk  Fri Apr 23 01:10:14 2004
From: afriere at yahoo.co.uk (Asun Friere)
Date: 22 Apr 2004 22:10:14 -0700
Subject: Deleting objects - my earler post got garbled
References: <b4a8ffb6.0404221209.d612c6@posting.google.com>
	<40883067.4000702@v.loewis.de>
Message-ID: <38ec68a6.0404222110.43416e1d@posting.google.com>

"Martin v. L?wis" <martin at v.loewis.de> wrote in message news:<40883067.4000702 at v.loewis.de>...

> There is no way to explicitly delete an object in Python.

So what does "del <object>" actually do then?


From No.Spam.mc at No.Spam.mclaveau.No.Spam.com  Fri Apr 23 15:44:07 2004
From: No.Spam.mc at No.Spam.mclaveau.No.Spam.com (Michel Claveau/Hamster)
Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2004 21:44:07 +0200
Subject: Paris python user group?
References: <408795ee$0$25893$79c14f64@nan-newsreader-02.noos.net>
Message-ID: <c6d4pt$pca$1@news-reader2.wanadoo.fr>

Bonsoir !

L'id?e est int?ressante. Je serait assez tent?, s'il n'y avait pas cette
s?gr?gation pro-parisienne.
C'est vrai, quoi !  Pourquoi vous limiter ? Paris ? Il y a des coins
nettement moins pollu?s que Paris, et donc plus productif (pythoniquement
parlant).

Vive l'Ard?che !


@+
-- 
Michel Claveau







From moosebumps at moosebumps.com  Fri Apr  9 20:39:55 2004
From: moosebumps at moosebumps.com (Moosebumps)
Date: Sat, 10 Apr 2004 00:39:55 GMT
Subject: automatically generating file dependency information frompython
	tools
References: <bhFdc.50011$bE2.25447@newssvr25.news.prodigy.com>
	<mailman.494.1081551025.20120.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <vnHdc.50052$rz3.17101@newssvr25.news.prodigy.com>

>
> In answer to the question you /almost/ asked:
>
> http://www.google.com/search?q=python+make+replacement
>

That is definitely of interest to me, but I would want to go one step
further and automatically generate the dependency info.  I haven't looked
specifically at these make replacements, but I would assume you have to use
a makefile or specify dependency info in some form like a text file.  What I
am looking for is a way to automatically generate it from the source code of
the individual tools that the make program will run, or by running the tools
in some special mode where they just spit out which files they will
read/write.

MB




From piet at cs.uu.nl  Mon Apr  5 11:49:38 2004
From: piet at cs.uu.nl (Piet van Oostrum)
Date: 05 Apr 2004 17:49:38 +0200
Subject: Working with bytes.
References: <406EE606.4000604@yahoo.com>
	<mailman.308.1081013778.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<406f33b6$0$30963$3a628fcd@reader1.nntp.hccnet.nl>
	<wzk70vrbnv.fsf@Ordesa.local>
	<4071273d$0$132$3a628fcd@reader1.nntp.hccnet.nl>
	<wz8yhaa3u2.fsf@ordesa.cs.uu.nl>
	<s9z4qrywizc.fsf@salmakis.intevation.de>
Message-ID: <wzzn9qzap9.fsf@ordesa.cs.uu.nl>

>>>>> Bernhard Herzog <bh at intevation.de> (BH) wrote:

BH> Piet van Oostrum <piet at cs.uu.nl> writes:
>> Yes, you could in principle use 94 characters. There is a scheme called
>> btoa that encodes 4 bytes into 5 ASCII characters by using BASE85, but I
>> have never seen a Python implementation of it. It shouldn't be difficult,
>> however. 

BH> Is that the same as PDF/PostScript Ascii85?  If so, there's an
BH> implementation somewhere in reportlab, IIRC.

They are slightly different AFAIK. Postscript uses '~' and btoa uses 'x'
as terminating character. For the OP's use it doesn't matter of course.
-- 
Piet van Oostrum <piet at cs.uu.nl>
URL: http://www.cs.uu.nl/~piet [PGP]
Private email: P.van.Oostrum at hccnet.nl


From Holger.Joukl at LBBW.de  Mon Apr  5 07:50:37 2004
From: Holger.Joukl at LBBW.de (Holger Joukl)
Date: Mon, 5 Apr 2004 13:50:37 +0200
Subject: python processes names
Message-ID: <OFC56206C1.4CF32065-ONC1256E6D.003F4B63@lbbw.sko.de>


>>By default if  we have many different python processes running
>>simultaneously, then we can only see python python python for three
>>different python processes. I would much rather see
>>first_python_program_name.py, second_python_program_name.py and
>>third_python_program_name.py listed by ps.

You might want to make the scripts executable by
1 .chmod u+x <file>.py
2. putting s.th. like
#! /usr/local/bin/python
as the first line of the script files (with your appropriate python
interpreter path) and
start them directly from the command line with ./<script>.py

But be aware you might still not see the full progname with ps -e (see
manpage).
Try also ps -ef which gives a longer output.
In our environment we also have some different ps program installed which
gives
you the full cmd for a process with
/usr/ucb/ps -auxww|grep <username>
but I honestly do not know where that comes from, etc.

hth,
  Holger

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From martin at v.loewis.de  Fri Apr  2 01:57:20 2004
From: martin at v.loewis.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?=22Martin_v=2E_L=F6wis=22?=)
Date: Fri, 02 Apr 2004 08:57:20 +0200
Subject: Subclassing file and getting around the file.__init__ rigidity
In-Reply-To: <807692de.0404012244.53b476dc@posting.google.com>
References: <807692de.0404012244.53b476dc@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <c4j2sb$176$04$1@news.t-online.com>

Jan Burgy wrote:
> Consider the class down below. I've implemented it just because I
> needed the pushback method. Now of course the third line in __init__
> doesn't work and I even understand why. My question is: is there any
> way to make it work?

What do you mean, it doesn't work? It does precisely what it says it
does:

> class BufferedFile(file):
> 
>     def __init__(self, name):
>         if type(name) == file:
>             self = name                   # DOESN'T WORK!

This assigns the local variable self to be the value of the local
variable name. As a result of that assignment, self does not refer
anymore to the object being created, but instead, it refers to
the first parameter. The object just being created is then not
accessible anymore.

If you thought this assignment might modify the object being created
in some way: Why would you think so?

Regards,
Martin



From dmq at gain.com  Wed Apr 28 14:25:08 2004
From: dmq at gain.com (David MacQuigg)
Date: Wed, 28 Apr 2004 11:25:08 -0700
Subject: Explanation of Instance Variables in Python
Message-ID: <pssv80dmliqnmlihb0eokkgkqhvoji3l7t@4ax.com>


I am writing a chapter for teaching OOP in Python.  This chapter is
intended as a brief introduction to replace the more complete
discussion in Learning Python, 2nd ed, pp. 295-390.  I need to explain
instance variables.

What I'm looking for is the best compromise between brevity and a full
explanation.  The students are non-CIS technical professionals (
engineers and scientists ).  At the point they need this explanation,
they have covered functions and modules, but not classes.  They are
new to object-oriented programming.  They have just been shown a class
definition with some data attributes and methods.

The non-CIS background is important, because I can't assume any
experience with other computer languages.

I would like to hear from users who have a similar background, or
anyone who has taught such users.  What is your background?  Which of
the alternatives below do you like or dislike?  Can you think back on
your own learning experience, and write something better?

Here are some alternatives I have collected:

1) Python Tutorial at http://docs.python.org/tut/node11.html
------------------------------------------------------------
What exactly happens when a method is called?  You may have noticed
that x.f() was called without an argument above, even though the
function definition for f specified an argument.  What happened to the
argument?  Surely Python raises an exception when a function that
requires an argument is called without any -- even if the argument
isn't actually used... 

Actually, you may have guessed the answer: the special thing about
methods is that the object is passed as the first argument of the
function.  In our example, the call x.f() is exactly equivalent to
MyClass.f(x).  In general, calling a method with a list of n arguments
is equivalent to calling the corresponding function with an argument
list that is created by inserting the method's object before the first
argument. 

If you still don't understand how methods work, a look at the
implementation can perhaps clarify matters.  When an instance
attribute is referenced that isn't a data attribute, its class is
searched.  If the name denotes a valid class attribute that is a
function object, a method object is created by packing (pointers to)
the instance object and the function object just found together in an
abstract object: this is the method object.  When the method object is
called with an argument list, it is unpacked again, a new argument
list is constructed from the instance object and the original argument
list, and the function object is called with this new argument list. 

2) comp.lang.python 4/27/04, David MacQuigg
-------------------------------------------
Some of the variables inside the methods in a class have a self.
prefix.  This is to distinguish local variables in the method from
"instance variables".  These instance variables will be found when the
method is called, by searching the instance which called the method.
The way this works is that calling the method from an instance causes
that instance to be passed as the first argument to the method call.
So if you call cat1.talk(), that is equivalent to Cat.talk(cat1) If
you call cat1.set_vars( "Garfield", "Meow"), that is equivalent to
Cat.set_vars(cat1, "Garfield", "Meow")
The "current instance" argument is automatically inserted as the first
argument, ahead of any other arguments that you may provide in calling
a method that is "bound" to an instance.  Note: The distinction
between instances and classes is important here.  If you call a method
from a class, that method is not bound to any instance, and you have
to supply the instance explicitly in the first argument (
Cat.talk(cat1) )
The variable name self is just a convention.  As long as you put the
same name in the first argument as in the body of the definition, it
can be self or s or even _   The single underscore is handy if you
want to maximally suppress clutter.

3) comp.lang.python 4/27/04, Greg Ewing
---------------------------------------
When a function is called from an instance (e.g. cat1.talk()), the
instance is passed in as an extra parameter at the beginning of the
parameter list, conventionally named 'self'.  This allows you to refer
to attributes of the instance as 'self.attrname' (e.g. self.sound).

=====================================

Thanks for your help on this project.

-- Dave

*************************************************************     *
* David MacQuigg, PhD              * email:  dmq at gain.com   *  *
* IC Design Engineer               * phone:  USA 520-721-4583  *  *  *
* Analog Design Methodologies                                  *  *  *
*                                  * 9320 East Mikelyn Lane     * * *
* VRS Consulting, P.C.             * Tucson, Arizona 85710        *
*************************************************************     *



From alexanro at stud.ntnu.no  Wed Apr 14 13:18:47 2004
From: alexanro at stud.ntnu.no (Alexander Rødseth)
Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2004 19:18:47 +0200
Subject: 3D Graphics Engine
References: <8089854e.0404130639.3eb0db62@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <c5jrpo$7uj$1@orkan.itea.ntnu.no>

"The Nebula Device" supports Python.

I tried v.1 some time ago, and I think it worked, but I abandoned it for
some reason.
Now v.2 is out, but I couldn't find much documentation for using it with
Python.

Here's the site: http://nebuladevice.sourceforge.net/

- Alexander




From peter at engcorp.com  Sun Apr 25 13:37:49 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Sun, 25 Apr 2004 13:37:49 -0400
Subject: Andreas' practical language comparison
In-Reply-To: <c6glig$phm$07$4@news.t-online.com>
References: <c6glig$phm$07$4@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <TrGdnVUrJdjsahbdRVn-iQ@powergate.ca>

Andreas Koch wrote:

> i started a little "practical language comparison" - practical
> in the sense that i compare how actual distributions and versions
> and their libraries (not abstract language specifications) solve small
> test cases like the 8 queens problem.
> 
> Currently there are contributions for 17 different languages, and
> none for Phyton (and Lisp. And Forth. And many others ).
> If someone is interested in contributing a few implementations,
> please have a look at:
> 
> http://www.kochandreas.com/home/language/lang.htm
> 
> and mail me your code snippets (or critics) or post them here.

You might want to put a little more thought into the way you
present the information there.  As it stands, it appears likely
to heavily influence people to produce the shortest possible
programs, rather than the most readable or even most typical for
a given language.

Also, even if you leave the line counts in, different languages
(and people) typically count lines differently.  For example,
some line-counting programs for C count semicolons and commas
rather than newlines, as these are closer to representative of
the number of *statements*, and that's what matters most of the
time when you are thinking "lines of code".

I sent bubble sort, based on the algorithm, but I'm not going
to bother with more if this is simply a fewest-lines competition,
since the first person to post some Perl will win (although K
appears to be ready to give tight competition in that area,
if the current list is any indication).

-Peter


From AnthonyF at Blarg.NET  Mon Apr  5 17:23:17 2004
From: AnthonyF at Blarg.NET (AF)
Date: 5 Apr 2004 14:23:17 -0700
Subject: syntax question
Message-ID: <c10dc8.0404051323.4594717c@posting.google.com>

If I have a list of touples:

l = [(x1, y1), (x2, y2), ...]

Is there a 1 line way to extract and get the sum of each x and y
column.  I can do it this way with 2 lines of code and iterating
through the list twice:

sumx = sum([x for x, y in l])
sumy = sum([y for x, y in l])

Is there a 1 liner way to get the sums of both x and y and only
iterate thru the list once?

Also, is there a way to extract a list of x's and a list of y's from
the touple list?  1 line of course.

Thanks!

AF


From adsheehan at eircom.net  Fri Apr 23 06:21:53 2004
From: adsheehan at eircom.net (Alan Sheehan)
Date: 23 Apr 2004 03:21:53 -0700
Subject: Python use large scale projects
References: <47fc6058.0404212327.24163290@posting.google.com>
	<aKydnV3AIssWThrdRVn-gg@comcast.com>
	<asCdnTLM14wiexrdRVn-uQ@powergate.ca>
	<9be5e130.0404222243.7cbf1be4@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <f4a45085.0404230221.6eaf5e2c@posting.google.com>

Also take a look at the Chandler project which is large scale and python based.

http://osafoundation.org/Chandler-Product_FAQ.htm

Alan


From sarah_wang23 at hotmail.com  Mon Apr  5 01:09:08 2004
From: sarah_wang23 at hotmail.com (Sarah Wang)
Date: 4 Apr 2004 22:09:08 -0700
Subject: Siginificant figures calculating zprob
References: <9405c70f.0404031852.155d17d5@posting.google.com>
	<c4p34l$ubt$1@newsg4.svr.pol.co.uk>
Message-ID: <9405c70f.0404042109.55b9f827@posting.google.com>

"Duncan Smith" <buzzard at urubu.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in message news:<c4p34l$ubt$1 at newsg4.svr.pol.co.uk>...
> "Sarah Wang" <sarah_wang23 at hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:9405c70f.0404031852.155d17d5 at posting.google.com...
> > Hello everyone!
> >
> > I want to calculate zprob(the area under the normal curve)
> > with python and I managed to find a function from the
> > internet.
> >
> > But the problem is that the function calculates the result
> > with only a few significant figures. If I want to get the
> > 20th number of the result(z-prob) what should I do?
> 
> Why would you need this degree of precision?
>

I'm doing some exploration into the statistical part of "Six Sigma"
(as someone on the thread noted) with my most powerful exploratory
tool "Python Interactive Shell". :)

I just wanted to see myself if six sigma is really 3.4 defects per
million opportunities but got into the limit of float type's precision.

> I want
> > to get the confidence level of "6sigma" and all I get at the
> > moment is "1".
> >
> 
> How about posting the code?  Check out Gary Strangman's stats.py
> http://www.nmr.mgh.harvard.edu/Neural_Systems_Group/gary/python.html
> 
> Duncan

Well, actually I used Gary's code(zprob function) and it returned 1
for 6 sigma. The precision falls short.

As Paul rightly directed me, the wikipedia page explained that I was
looking for a wrong target. I should've computed 4.5 sigma instead.
Real 6 sigma is 2 per one billion. But my curiosity drove me to
experiment that rare probability. The python code was reaching far
short but Excel's normdist function did it nicely(it's significant digits
doesn't seem very long though).

Happily with help from Josiah, I could get both what I wanted(6sigma)
and what I did not wanted(4.5sigma) at the first place.

Thank you all.


From latex-bugs.nospam at latex-project.org  Thu Apr 22 05:09:37 2004
From: latex-bugs.nospam at latex-project.org (latex-bugs.nospam at latex-project.org)
Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2004 11:09:37 +0200 (CEST)
Subject: Delivered Message (latex-bugs@latex-project.org)
In-Reply-To: <200404220909.i3M994w7044154@rzaixsrv2.rrz.uni-hamburg.de>
References: <200404220909.i3M994w7044154@rzaixsrv2.rrz.uni-hamburg.de>
Message-ID: <200404220909.i3M99b3u024452@sun.dante.de>

Thank you for your message to latex-bugs at latex-project.org.

Sorry, but the latex-bugs email processor cannot handle
MIME attachments. Please resend your problem report with
the contents of latexbug.msg as the body of your message.

Please do not reply to this message! To prevent SPAM,
you cannot reply to the sender address of this message

-- 



From Ax10 at gmx.de  Sun Apr 11 02:56:13 2004
From: Ax10 at gmx.de (Mike Abel)
Date: Sun, 11 Apr 2004 08:56:13 +0200
Subject: Tkinter Button image option
References: <8d3ec.74988$Ig.46341@pd7tw2no>
Message-ID: <dp6nk1-4u1.ln1@6.mabelsoft.org>

Elaine Jackson <elainejackson7355 at home.com> wrote:

Hi Elaine,

i think you use not the correct path to the image?

For an example look at the following url.
Sorry it's a german site.

http://home.foni.net/~heikos/tkinter/node56.html

Mike


From wweston at att.net  Wed Apr 21 14:20:11 2004
From: wweston at att.net (wes weston)
Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2004 18:20:11 GMT
Subject: This is very simple question
In-Reply-To: <b0457a31.0404210754.2a34b6be@posting.google.com>
References: <b0457a31.0404210754.2a34b6be@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <vXyhc.15815$um3.348306@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>

Eric wrote:
> I would want to obtain a list of factors (multiples of 2) given a
> prime number in python.
> 
> For example 13=[8,4,1], 5=[4,1], 7=[4,2,1], 15=[8,4,2,1]
> 
> I would appreciate a fuction which would do this.
> 
> Eric

import math

def foo(n):
     list = []
     while n > 0:
         x = int(math.log(n,2))
         pow = int(math.pow(2,x))
         list.append(pow)
         n -= pow
     return list

for x in [13,5,7,15,17,33]:
     print x, foo(x)


 >>>
13 [8, 4, 1]
5 [4, 1]
7 [4, 2, 1]
15 [8, 4, 2, 1]
17 [16, 1]
33 [32, 1]
 >>>



From peter at engcorp.com  Fri Apr  9 14:41:25 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Fri, 09 Apr 2004 14:41:25 -0400
Subject: module not callable - why not?
In-Reply-To: <8Mqdnb5WObgLR-vd4p2dnA@powergate.ca>
References: <c56jph$rrk$05$1@news.t-online.com> <VKAdc.360$rC3.22993@attbi_s53>
	<8Mqdnb5WObgLR-vd4p2dnA@powergate.ca>
Message-ID: <e7SdnSNn8sHLc-vdRVn_iw@powergate.ca>

Peter Hansen wrote:

> Generally speaking it's safe to do (and so is "from xxx import *")
> but considered poor form, extremely so in the latter case.  And
> it's not an arbitrary thing: doing this makes code less readable
> and maintainable because it becomes unclear where names are
> coming from without constant reference to the list of imports
> at the top.

I think for the simple "from xxx import yyy" I've overstated
the case somewhat, especially given that this is something I
do a lot too.

Rather than calling it "poor form", I would say merely that
overuse of it can lead to code becoming less clear.  For the
usual cases, including John Roth's example with "as q", it's
not poor form if used relatively sparingly, and can actually
increase readability in those cases.

-Peter


From mauriceling at acm.org  Wed Apr 14 21:54:34 2004
From: mauriceling at acm.org (Maurice LING)
Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2004 01:54:34 GMT
Subject: Does Python compete with Java?
In-Reply-To: <e838aa6e.0404130748.1d8e1ddf@posting.google.com>
References: <8b336527.0404051337.51bb4a1b@posting.google.com>
	<c4taac$2lg0bc$1@ID-169208.news.uni-berlin.de>
	<e838aa6e.0404071426.7192e8e4@posting.google.com>
	<slrnc79idf.hij.ramen@lackingtalent.com>
	<e838aa6e.0404130748.1d8e1ddf@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <407deb56$1@news.unimelb.edu.au>

A. Lloyd Flanagan wrote:
> Dave Benjamin <ramen at lackingtalent.com> wrote in message news:<slrnc79idf.hij.ramen at lackingtalent.com>...
> 
>>Over the long term, I think Python's biggest key to success will be that we
>>will still be able to read the programs that we are writing now.
> 
> 
> No argument here :)

I don't quite understand, does Python have to compete with Java? In many 
cases, the programming language used to write an application almost has 
no relevance to the acceptance of the application. Although we thought 
(think) that a compiled language is faster, better than an interpreted 
language like python, it has some contradictions. I was researching for 
an assignment some time back on 2GL and 3GL and the general dogma is 
that the lower the language, the faster it should run, but a paper in 
ACM digital library showed that a program in Ada can run substantially 
faster than one written in assembly.

What I see is that Python and Java can be synergistically linked, for 
example, through Jython, can be more constructive than competition...

Maurice


From mark at prothon.org  Mon Apr 26 15:36:51 2004
From: mark at prothon.org (Mark Hahn)
Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2004 12:36:51 -0700
Subject: What is good about Prothon?
References: <bniq80hiib0gauiltuntk9jvia2getbnj4@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <nxdjc.400$Qy.363@fed1read04>


"David MacQuigg" <dmq at gain.com> wrote ...

> I'm concerned that with all the focus on obj$func binding

I would like to point out, as a technical detail, you will quickly find out
when you implement "your" Prothon, as I did in "my" Prothon, and Lenard
Lindstrom did in his Python implementation of "his" Prothon, that you MUST
focus on function/method binding on objects.  This is where the
classlessness of Prothon versus classfulness of Python exhibits its
differences.

Ignoring the problem of  calling the ancestor's version of a method by just
using the same old obj.func() will not work.  You don't have to use the
current suggestion of obj$func() (we Prothonites may not use it either), but
you cannot live in denial about the need for it.




From leeg at teaching.physics.ox.ac.uk.valid  Mon Apr 26 12:11:39 2004
From: leeg at teaching.physics.ox.ac.uk.valid (leeg)
Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2004 17:11:39 +0100
Subject: Is Perl *that* good? (was: How's ruby compare to it older bro
References: <mailman.18.1082989111.25742.python-list@python.org>
	<lNadndrvs_FarRDdRVn-vA@powergate.ca>
Message-ID: <c6jcf5$mfv$2@news.ox.ac.uk>

Peter Hansen wrote:

> 
> I guess it would be interesting to pose the question back to
> them "If you could not use regexes in Perl, would you still
> like to program in it?" or "If you couldn't use mysql in PHP
> would you still use it?"
> 
> What similar question, if any, would be a difficult one for
> us Python types?
> 
"If you couldn't write any program your imagination came up with in Python,
or couldn't at least prototype it, or it took longer to write in Python
than it did in C or Objective-C, would you still use it?"

That's my question.  I don't write operating systems or control nuclear
reactors (not real ones anyway).
-- 
Graham Lee
I am leeg, for we are many
C++: An octopus constructed by nailing extra legs onto a dog.
http://users.ox.ac.uk/~wadh1342



From google0 at lazytwinacres.net  Fri Apr  2 20:38:06 2004
From: google0 at lazytwinacres.net (Dang Griffith)
Date: Sat, 03 Apr 2004 01:38:06 GMT
Subject: Method for providing a trail period on a program
References: <L8idnY07QbRfNPHdRVn-hw@comcast.com>
Message-ID: <f3c27002bf477d7349489223011f63d8@news.teranews.com>

On Thu, 1 Apr 2004 17:46:12 -0600, "Larry Bates"
<lbates at swamisoft.com> wrote:

>I'm searching for a good way to provide a "trail
>period" (something like 90 days) for a commercial
>application that I'm writing.  I'd like something
>that can easily stop working 90 days after
>installation.  Can anyone point me to something
>that exists already?

Look at http://www.macrovision.com/, formerly (or now owner of)
GlobeTrotter Software.  It's pretty easy to use, and you can 
set it up so users can "activate" their temporary
copy without having to get a new copy of the software.
    --dang


From loic at fejoz.net  Fri Apr 16 07:33:05 2004
From: loic at fejoz.net (Yermat)
Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2004 13:33:05 +0200
Subject: (For gurus) Embed functions in webpages like in PHP?
In-Reply-To: <5eq4l1-9vm.ln1@pilz.hasos.com>
References: <5eq4l1-9vm.ln1@pilz.hasos.com>
Message-ID: <c5ogc0$ri9$1@arcturus.ciril.fr>

Robert Ferber wrote:
> [...]
> 
> As far as I've seen, there is no way to embed Python-code in a webpage with
> "<? ?>" or anything equivalent and I don't see any other way to solve this
> problem.
> 
> But maybe somebody else does, I'd apreceate all ideas,
> 
> Thanks a lot
> 

Here a page with link to several template system in python :
http://webware.sourceforge.net/Papers/Templates/

-- 
Yermat



From mwh at python.net  Mon Apr  5 09:03:16 2004
From: mwh at python.net (Michael Hudson)
Date: Mon, 5 Apr 2004 13:03:16 GMT
Subject: Python is faster than C
References: <406F0907.96F37EA1@tunes.org> <7xy8pcogaa.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<406F454B.C4CC8063@tunes.org> <7xekr4vdek.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<406F5E95.EBE6D3E8@tunes.org> <7x65cgqy5s.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <m3r7v2tw4s.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk>

Paul Rubin <http://phr.cx at NOSPAM.invalid> writes:

> Armin Rigo <arigo at tunes.org> writes:
> > Ideally: If you do  x=range(100); x[50]='hi'  then the interpreter first
> > builds this optimized range representation and assigns it to x; and when
> > in the next statement you modify this list x it says 'oops! i cannot do
> > that with this representation', so it reverts to an array-like
> > representation (i.e. it creates all 100 elements) and then changes the
> > 50th.  No gain here.  If on the other hand you only ever do 'easy'
> > things with your list, like iterate over it or read elements, then it
> > can all be done with the range representation, without falling back to
> > the array representation.
> 
> Maybe there is something to this.  

Armin is usually worth listening too :-)

You can find a step towards many of these ideas in PyPy, which should
surprise no one at all...

Cheers,
mwh

-- 
  Indeed, when I design my killer language, the identifiers "foo" and
  "bar" will be reserved words, never used, and not even mentioned in
  the reference manual. Any program using one will simply dump core
  without comment. Multitudes will rejoice. -- Tim Peters, 29 Apr 1998


From jcarlson at uci.edu  Mon Apr 19 00:55:11 2004
From: jcarlson at uci.edu (Josiah Carlson)
Date: Sun, 18 Apr 2004 21:55:11 -0700
Subject: module not callable - why not?
In-Reply-To: <tql680hdmhv01548e6h2ghrgie0s0a4pnk@4ax.com>
References: <c56jph$rrk$05$1@news.t-online.com>
	<107dras2heahcb6@news.supernews.com>
	<mailman.491.1081538569.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<8ef9bea6.0404122025.36efc84e@posting.google.com>
	<c5tef0$5hf$1@news.service.uci.edu>
	<7xsmf1fxd9.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<8ef9bea6.0404180823.7a3bc189@posting.google.com>
	<c5uufg$lig$1@news.service.uci.edu>
	<tql680hdmhv01548e6h2ghrgie0s0a4pnk@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <c5vma4$epk$1@news.service.uci.edu>

>>Truth be told, I've used singletons before, but only once.
> 
> 
> Is that a pun?

Yes, though not intentionally.

  - Josiah


From mlerner at NO.umichSPAM.PLEASE.edu  Wed Apr 28 12:52:24 2004
From: mlerner at NO.umichSPAM.PLEASE.edu (Michael George Lerner)
Date: Wed, 28 Apr 2004 16:52:24 GMT
Subject: Cross-platform issues with file's a+ mode
Message-ID: <cjRjc.4629$Nz2.96285@news.itd.umich.edu>

I was helping someone debug his code today .. it worked fine on Linux, but
gave a strange error message on Windows.  Here's the snippet that goes
wrong in Python 2.2 under Windows (it also happens under 2.3a1 under
Windows and Enthought's 2.3.3, so I think it's pretty generic) .. :

>>> os.remove('test.txt') 
>>> f = file('test.txt','a+') 
>>> f.readline()
'' 
>>> f.write('beep') 
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<pyshell#48>", line 1, in ?
    f.write('beep') 
IOError: (0, 'Error')

but .. I can make things work by seeking:

>>> f.seek(0) 
>>> f.write('beep')
>>>

I don't know whether it's important or not, but if I do an f.tell() after
the readline(), it says 0L, which seems reasonable.

For comparison (and this is also true under, e.g., Linux 2.3a1),

bash-2.04$ python 
Python 2.2 (#1, Feb 18 2002, 14:48:51) [C] on sunos5
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information. 
>>> import os 
>>> os.remove('test.txt') 
>>> f = file('test.txt','a+') 
>>> f.readline() 
'' 
>>> f.write('beep') 
>>>

What's going on here?  Should I expect this behavior?  I've never needed
to use a+ mode before .. is it just known to be funny or have interesting
cross-platform issues?

Thanks,

-michael


From simoninusa2001 at yahoo.co.uk  Wed Apr 14 13:07:51 2004
From: simoninusa2001 at yahoo.co.uk (simo)
Date: 14 Apr 2004 10:07:51 -0700
Subject: Method for providing a trail period on a program
References: <L8idnY07QbRfNPHdRVn-hw@comcast.com>
	<f3c27002bf477d7349489223011f63d8@news.teranews.com>
Message-ID: <30260531.0404140907.22bba9a0@posting.google.com>

Dang Griffith <google0 at lazytwinacres.net> wrote:
 
> Look at http://www.macrovision.com/, formerly (or now owner of)
> GlobeTrotter Software.  It's pretty easy to use, and you can 
> set it up so users can "activate" their temporary
> copy without having to get a new copy of the software.

You are shitting me right? FlexLM! You know everybody hates that
software as it is such a pain in the arse for the legitimate user?!
Plus of course, it's very easy to hack - jees, you might as well go
back to dongles!

I have no advice for putting a trial period into your software, but I
can say that a function-limited version is certainly not the way to go
- if you're giving out a demo, then it needs to show the user the
power features to impress, so disabling them is stupid.

Maybe disabling saving/printing or something..... Anything which uses
the Windows Registry is just pointless, or even the timestamp of the
install directory.

Of course, today the money is in support, not what comes on the disc,
just look at Linux.


From herrn at gmx.net  Sun Apr  4 09:44:02 2004
From: herrn at gmx.net (Marco Herrn)
Date: 4 Apr 2004 13:44:02 GMT
Subject: __import__() with packages
Message-ID: <c4p3f2$2j1tnb$1@ID-165840.news.uni-berlin.de>

Hi,

I am using the builtin __import__() to import modules. That works for
simple modules like in this example:

    m= __import__("eggs")

when there is the module "eggs.py" in the current directory

But how do I do this with packages? A I understand the documentation for
__import__(), it must be something like:

    m= __import__("eggs", globals(), locals(), ["spam"])

when there is the package "spam" in the current directory, containing
the module "eggs".
But that doesn't work. I tried it in some different forms. The only one
that works in some way is:

   m= __import__("spam.eggs")

But that is not what I want, since I get "spam" as a module:
   <module 'spam' from 'spam/__init__.pyc'>

So what am I doing wrong here?

Marco

-- 
Marco Herrn             herrn at gmx.net
(GnuPG/PGP-signed and crypted mail preferred)
Key ID: 0x94620736



From meyer at acm.org  Wed Apr  7 11:36:54 2004
From: meyer at acm.org (Andre Meyer)
Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2004 15:36:54 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Dynamic creation of an object instance of a class by name
References: <10f99b0f.0404070656.5960e2c8@posting.google.com>
	<c515uc$2obrct$1@ID-111250.news.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <loom.20040407T173504-834@post.gmane.org>

Diez B. Roggisch <deetsNOSPAM <at> web.de> writes:

> 
> cn = 'A'
> inst = eval('%s()' % cn)
> 


Thanks!

What about parameters? Do they go into the %s()?

How does this compare to:

cn = 'A'
inst = eval(cn)(arg0, arg1)

kind regards
Andre





From Mike at DeleteThis.Geary.com  Tue Apr 27 12:17:57 2004
From: Mike at DeleteThis.Geary.com (Michael Geary)
Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2004 09:17:57 -0700
Subject: Is Perl *that* good?
References: <mailman.44.1083079272.25742.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <108t1tlhnhi46ee@corp.supernews.com>

Robert Brewer wrote:
> I wish Python had won, as well. But time is linear (in
> my mind). I now wish only that we could leverage the
> similarity of JS and Python (execution and binding
> models) into more Python users. Marketing needs
> to run with the line, "So you know Javascript? Then
> you know Python!"

That was my impression of Python when I started using it after some
extensive JavaScript work: "Cool! It's just like JavaScript but with a lot
more goodies!" The two languages struck me as very similar. Even though
JavaScript *looks* like C, it *works* much more like Python.

-Mike




From peter at engcorp.com  Sat Apr 10 08:41:22 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Sat, 10 Apr 2004 08:41:22 -0400
Subject: Wrapper round x86 Assembler
In-Reply-To: <8089854e.0404100204.504186a0@posting.google.com>
References: <8089854e.0404082353.7bf163a2@posting.google.com>
	<4dKdnQlIXMIXIevdRVn-gg@powergate.ca>
	<8089854e.0404100204.504186a0@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <kcWdnaFpw_PvdurdRVn-sA@powergate.ca>

Fuzzyman wrote:

> Peter Hansen <peter at engcorp.com> wrote in message news:<4dKdnQlIXMIXIevdRVn-gg at powergate.ca>...
> 
>>Fuzzyman wrote:
>>
>>>There might be a really good reason why this hasn't been done *or*
>>>someone might have done it and I just can't find it..... *but*
>>>
>>>what about a wrapper to an assembler (presumably for x86 assembly !)
>>>!!
>>>I just wrote some code doing binary operations which would have been
>>>about a zillion times faster in a few lines of assembly code.
>>
>>I refer you to "Pyrex"...
> 
> If I understand correctly (which is probably not likely) - Pyrex is a
> compiled language with some C syntax and some Python syntax.

Pretty much.

> Because the result is compiled, and  a step in the compile chain is
> assembly, you could include inline assembly in the same way that you
> could with C ??

Having assembly as one step in the compile chain is a somewhat
dated concept.  Many compilers go directly to object code.

> Never having done any C programming that stretches the limit of my
> knowledge.

Or exceeds it. <wink>

> *However* it's not quite what I had in mind. What I'd like to be able
> to do is to access machine code subroutines from within normal python.

Ah, you didn't say that.  You were asking about performance,
and certainly in any place where resorting to assembly would
give you that, you should be able to get it from Pyrex as well.

Pyrex might also let you interface with "machine code subroutines",
however, provided they support the standard C calling conventions
(with respect to passing args, saving registers and such).

My main reason for pushing Pyrex as opposed to discussing
options for assembly programming is that there's very little
reason for people to be doing assembly in the world these days.
C is higher level yet with an optimizing compiler allows better
performance in all but a few rare cases (meaning a few rare
problem domains and a few rare individuals).

Assembly is also the most platform-specific thing going, whereas
C is "quite" portable in comparison, whether we're talking about
the code itself or the technical knowledge of the programmer.

If you have specific code that exists and does not follow C
calling conventions, then if Pyrex won't let you call it (and
I'm guessing it won't) you could still whip up a C extension
that would, using some inline assembly there.  Or if you're
good enough at assembly to prefer it to C, you could probably
just write a Python extension in assembly directly. :-)

-Peter


From gianluca.trombetta at tin.it  Wed Apr 14 09:44:22 2004
From: gianluca.trombetta at tin.it (Gianluca Trombetta)
Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2004 15:44:22 +0200
Subject: mcmillan installer
References: <mailman.575.1081855698.20120.python-list@python.org><KzSec.628$2e6.535@lakeread01>
	<30260531.0404131021.7eb68543@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <c5jf7n$7e6$1@sea.gmane.org>

Thank you simo!
I've download the Gordon's installer and it works very well!!

Thank you very much!!! :-)
Bye
Gianluca

"simo" <simoninusa2001 at yahoo.co.uk> ha scritto nel messaggio
news:30260531.0404131021.7eb68543 at posting.google.com...
> I've mirrored the last 3 versions I could find at home (5beta5 for
> Win/UNIX and 5b4 for Win) at http://www.the-jedi.co.uk/comps/downloads
>
> I'd really like to know what happened, I heard that Gordon had some
> problems with his hosts being taken over, but now his domain seems to
> have expired too. I hope he's OK.
>
> I don't know if he's thought of using Sourceforge.net or even
> BitTorrent, I think my bandwidth quota can cope for now.
>
> Personally I prefer Installer to py2exe, mainly because of --onefile
> and --upx and of course, it works with Linux too!
> -- 
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>






From paul at prescod.net  Sat Apr 24 19:34:44 2004
From: paul at prescod.net (Paul Prescod)
Date: Sat, 24 Apr 2004 16:34:44 -0700
Subject: Why we will use obj$func() often
In-Reply-To: <408AF72B.5090404@rogers.com>
References: <d2Uhc.22272$dZ1.1600@fed1read04><84Uhc.22278$dZ1.5087@fed1read04>	<mailman.927.1082665370.20120.python-list@python.org><8AWhc.23114$dZ1.11070@fed1read04>	<mailman.939.1082697809.20120.python-list@python.org>	<no4ic.26268$dZ1.11413@fed1read04>	<408AECC7.7020601@prescod.net>
	<408AF72B.5090404@rogers.com>
Message-ID: <408AF994.90607@prescod.net>

Mike C. Fletcher wrote:

> Paul Prescod wrote:
> ...
> 
>> Yes, people are irrational. But if you care about language popularity 
>> you have to take that into account. Else you end up with a language 
>> that never goes mainstream like Lisp.
> 
> 
> Oooh, lovely double entendre there... ;)
> 
> You get a smiley for that one :) .

I wish I were smart enough to do that purposefully. ;)

  Paul Prescod





From nelson at monkey.org  Sun Apr 11 12:00:48 2004
From: nelson at monkey.org (Nelson Minar)
Date: Sun, 11 Apr 2004 16:00:48 GMT
Subject: Python is the best and most popular general purpose scripting
	language; the universal scripting language
References: <a5415304.0404101350.271088f2@posting.google.com>
	<roy-22B4DA.18282210042004@reader1.panix.com>
Message-ID: <cpaoepy8pxr.fsf@cabernet.nelson.monkey.org>

Roy Smith <roy at panix.com> writes:
>exactly what makes something a "scripting" langauge?

A scripting language is a language that you can't use to write an
operating system kernel.

A scripting language is a language that isn't a pain in the ass to use.


'When I use a word,' Humpty Dumpty said, in a rather scornful tone,' it
means just what I choose it to mean, neither more nor less.' 
  http://sundials.org/about/humpty.htm


From godoy at ieee.org  Fri Apr 30 08:14:22 2004
From: godoy at ieee.org (Jorge Godoy)
Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2004 09:14:22 -0300
Subject: Path ... where is my application's home dir?
References: <mailman.81.1083164606.25742.python-list@python.org>
	<Xns94D9B0A6BEE74duncanrcpcouk@127.0.0.1>
	<c6ovte$5im$1@biggoron.nerim.net>
	<p8WdnYsB5t5PmQ3dRVn-hw@powergate.ca>
	<Xns94DB3B44C6806JanC@213.118.38.102>
	<84Kdnfq3OoPKow_dRVn-vg@powergate.ca>
Message-ID: <uss9m1-00s.ln1@wintermute.g2ctech>

On Sex 30 Abr 2004 08:53, Peter Hansen wrote:

> No doubt the answer is somewhere in between 2% and "15-30%", but
> mine was not a guess, just an actual survey.  (No, I don't have
> a reference for it... wasn't important for me to save it at the
> time and I've personally migrated to XP, so now of course the
> rest of the world that hasn't is of less interest to me. ;-)

I hope one day I can think like that... Until there, I have to worry about
what the clients use :-(


-- 
Godoy.      <godoy at ieee.org>


From cpl.19.ghum at spamgourmet.com  Sat Apr 17 04:05:01 2004
From: cpl.19.ghum at spamgourmet.com (Harald Massa)
Date: Sat, 17 Apr 2004 10:05:01 +0200
Subject: Python OS
References: <mailman.702.1082138150.20120.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <Xns94CE669FE8266cpl19ghumspamgourmet@62.153.159.134>

Michael Chermside 

> Then you have much to learn. Different languages have different
> strengths, and a skilled programmer will realize that. 
That is really true.

> In the world of OSes, I think a core done in something like C
> with the higher level kernel functionality in Python would make
> an interesting system for experimenting with OS design. But
> performance is likely to be unreasonable for a "production" OS.

I am sure Dr. Armin Rigo would tend to disagree if he would read up to 
this sentence :))) You should GMANE the PyPy Mailing list, Edward of LEO 
posted this research of HP

http://www.hpl.hp.com/techreports/1999/HPL-1999-77.pdf
http://www.hpl.hp.com/techreports/1999/HPL-1999-78.pdf

"Contrary to intuition, we demonstrate that it is possible to use a piece 
of
software to improve the performance of a native, statically optimized
program binary, _while it is executing_." (emphasis in original).


also GNANE python-dev with Armins rant about "going to C to fast" and 
"python is faster than C" - nearly flamebaiting he proofed that he was 
able to outperform Timsort because he knew more about the data to sort.

Your way of formulating gives me the impression that you are a really 
experienced and knowledgable programmer; and "basic instincts" of 
experienced programmers is often that "assembler faster C faster C++ 
faster HighLevel" ... but as often, human mind seems to fail in complex 
optimization situations.

So I hope you allow me to direct your mind also in the area of dynamic 
optimization...

thanks

Harald



From nobody at dizum.com  Mon Apr  5 10:50:04 2004
From: nobody at dizum.com (Nomen Nescio)
Date: Mon,  5 Apr 2004 16:50:04 +0200 (CEST)
Subject: slightly OT: BUT NEEDs to be said
Message-ID: <4078daf265c69e9353e8af72542da703@dizum.com>


Hi I downloaded this document about Python recently:

http://datamining.anu.edu.au/~ole/publications/python.pdf

I loved the cute little Snake graphic.

I think it would be great for Python.org/people behind Python to adopt this
as an official mascot and DROP the god awful references to Monty Pythons's
Flying Circus. It is the later which is causing a slow take up and reluctance
of many individuals using Python. MPFC is a very very dated concept and because
of it's strange whacky 'humour' has dubious extreme and loony left wing allegiences
is not a good backdrop for Python. You should never bring politics into your
product. Understand that in the UK a lot of people don't find MPFC amusing,
and many of the 'comedians' have become extremely dispised (like Michael Palin
who is universally recognised as a figure of great nauseum) and have become
objects of ridicule.

Let me put it this way Python as a languge and product is *damaged* by the
references littered everywhere to MPFC. It colours the experience of it and
when I think what scripting language shall I use to get x task done I think
Python could do that and then oh no I'm not paying homage to the ghastly awful
MPFC shit which I hate and will use Perl or PHP instead which are considerably
more artistically 'neutral'

I quite like Python as a language (apart from the tabbing replacing curly brackets
which I'm not sure about) and think it stands up well to Perl and PHP but I
cannot abide the nauseating, puke enducing, gut-wrenching, toe-curling references
to Monty Python's shitty flying circus which is very much part of the *past*
of an era in British comedy and should not be part of any software package's
image.

Please adopt the cute Python graphic as your official logo and mascot which
works much better because it conjures up a *much more* positive metaphor of
a powerfully slippery creature wrapping itself round numbers and strings etc.

regards







From faassen at infrae.com  Wed Apr 14 08:08:32 2004
From: faassen at infrae.com (Martijn Faassen)
Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2004 14:08:32 +0200
Subject: EuroPython: Python Frameworks Track submission deadline
	approaching
In-Reply-To: <407bcd47$0$570$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>
References: <407bcd47$0$570$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>
Message-ID: <407d27ea$0$567$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>

Martijn Faassen wrote:
> The deadline for a talk submission for EuroPython is approaching fast 
> (april 15). I'm the track chair for the Python frameworks track, and 
> could use some more talk submissions!

For all you myriads of hackers who are rushing to make a submission in 
time for the deadline, we've given you a little bit more time: the talk 
submission deadline has shifted to the 26th of april!

Regards,

Martijn


From fma at doe.carleton.ca  Tue Apr 13 01:25:50 2004
From: fma at doe.carleton.ca (Fred Ma)
Date: 13 Apr 2004 05:25:50 GMT
Subject: Once-only evaluation of default parameter values function
	definitions
Message-ID: <407B79D7.424F65A1@doe.carleton.ca>

Hello,

I'm looking at Python for the 1st time today, motivated by its clarity
of syntax.  I've looked at the tutoarial at
http://www.python.org/doc/current/tut/tut.html, particularly at the
section about default arguments.  I've got some C++/STL under my belt,
so I'm familiar with passing/returning by reference, by value, and by
pointers.  I've also used containers of pointers, as well as c++
default parameter values.  I am aware of the general idea of reference
counting, but have never used it.

>From the python tutorial, it's clear that to avoid sharing default
values between function calls, one has to avoid:

   Example#1
   ---------
   def f(a, L=[]):
       L.append(a)
       return L

Instead, one should use:

   Example#2
   ---------
   def f(a, L=None):
       if L is None:
           L = []
       L.append(a)
       return L

None has been described a analogous to the NULL value in c++.  I'm
been looking and googling this newsgroup to get a clearer explanation
of why this works.  The tutorial says that the default value is only
evaluated once.  By that, I assume that there is some unnamed object
that is given the value of the 1st and only evaluation of the default
expression.  Every time the function is called without an L parameter,
L gets the value of this unnamed object.  But that is not consistent
with the Example#1 i.e.

   print f(1)
   print f(2)
   print f(3)

prints

   [1]
   [1, 2]
   [1, 2, 3]

The unnamed object that I imagined should have the value [], and L
should get set to [] every time that f() is called without a value
specified for L.

The alternative explanation that I could think of is that L is bound
to the unnamed object [], and the object itself changes values to
reflect changes to L i.e. L is now a persistent variable, retaining
its value between function calls unless a value is provided for L in
the function call's argument list.  In the latter case, one can
imagine L simply being overwritten with the value provided.

The problem with this picture is that Example#2 should fail for the
same reasons as Example#1.  That is, L will not get the value of None
on the 2nd call to f() without a value specified for L.  Hence, L will
not be reset to [].

I searched through the tutorials for programmers.  The same idiom is
presented, but I can't seem to find a more detailed explanation.  Some
threads here presented None as something that gets treated differently
from a value, so I confirmed from the language reference that None is
not just a value, but its own type.  The thread "Default Parameters to
function!" quotes the language reference in saying that the object
that L is bound to actually gets changed, when the function body makes
changes to the variable L.  Again, if this was the case, it seems like
that should cause Example#2 to fail as well (obviously something I'm
missing here).

I'd appreciate it if someone could provide an explanation that's
suitable for my background (some C++ experience, but not a
practitioner of the more advanced concepts).  Thanks.

Fred


From tjreedy at udel.edu  Fri Apr  2 12:06:13 2004
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Fri, 2 Apr 2004 12:06:13 -0500
Subject: Travelling salesman variation in python
References: <slrnc6on9h.spl.erlendga@tva.ifi.uio.no>
Message-ID: <c4k6i6$fd8$1@sea.gmane.org>


"Erlend Andreas Garberg" <erlendga at tva.ifi.uio.no> wrote in message
news:slrnc6on9h.spl.erlendga at tva.ifi.uio.no...
> Example:
> Nodes:
> A with numbers B->1200, C->2000
> B with numbers A->3000, C->4000
> C with numbers A->9000, B->5000
>
> The optimal ring is in this case can f.ex. be:
> A->1200->B->4000->C->9000->A with sum 14200.
>
> I have implemented this in python in the following way:
>
> hash is a dictionary with node-name as key and node-object as value.
> Each node-object has a dictionary speeds with node-name as key and a
> number as value. this dict stores the numbers associated with the other
> nodes.

If you number (0 -- n-1) rather than name the nodes, then you just need a
nodes array and a speed array for each node.  That should make your code a
bit simpler and easier to play with.  It should also be a bit faster, but a
good approximation algorithm will be **far** more important.  There is at
least one book on the TSP.

Terry J. Reedy






From claird at lairds.com  Mon Apr 26 13:26:37 2004
From: claird at lairds.com (Cameron Laird)
Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2004 17:26:37 -0000
Subject: Is Perl *that* good? (was: How's ruby compare to it older
	brother python)
References: <c6ich0$c5mee$1@ID-205437.news.uni-berlin.de>
	<iL3jc.232$Yc.2330@news4.e.nsc.no>
	<108q51j4dscn7dc@corp.supernews.com>
	<knbjc.267$id.3998@news2.e.nsc.no>
Message-ID: <108qhidjthjpdc0@corp.supernews.com>

In article <knbjc.267$id.3998 at news2.e.nsc.no>,
Leif B. Kristensen <junkmail at solumslekt.org> wrote:
			.
			.
			.
>which can be spelled in an amazing number of different ways. As I found
>that the Soundex algorithm was useless for Norwegian spellings, I
>invented my own. It's not really an algorithm, but a series of
>substitutions that reduces names to a kind of primitives. Thus, eg.
			.
			.
			.
"Canonicalization" is one name in academic English for this transformation.
-- 

Cameron Laird <claird at phaseit.net>
Business:  http://www.Phaseit.net


From gabriel.cooper at mediapulse.com  Wed Apr 21 16:57:06 2004
From: gabriel.cooper at mediapulse.com (Gabriel Cooper)
Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2004 16:57:06 -0400
Subject: Maybe Komodo might do it
In-Reply-To: <ZDAhc.186612$Pk3.110802@pd7tw1no>
References: <D6Ahc.2737911$iA2.315963@news.easynews.com>
	<ZDAhc.186612$Pk3.110802@pd7tw1no>
Message-ID: <4086E022.80107@mediapulse.com>

Komodo will do it. It will even autocomplete custom class information. 
For example, if I type:

x.y.z = 5

the next time I type x. it will autocomplete (suggest) that I add 'y' 
and so on. (woooo, aahhhhhh...)



Noah from IT Goes Click wrote:

> I haven't actually checked if it does it for PHP but it says it has 
> autocomplete, weather it explores your classes or not I don't know.
>
>
> http://www.activestate.com/Products/Komodo/index.plex




From thorsten at thorstenkampe.de  Thu Apr 29 10:51:21 2004
From: thorsten at thorstenkampe.de (Thorsten Kampe)
Date: Thu, 29 Apr 2004 16:51:21 +0200
Subject: outline-style sorting algorithm
References: <mailman.102.1083199976.25742.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <c2bdjg9l06p2.dlg@thorstenkampe.de>

* Delaney, Timothy C (Timothy) (2004-04-29 02:52 +0100)
> Thorsten Kampe wrote:
>>>>>> foo
>>> ['1.0', '1.0.1', '1.1.1', '1.2', '1.9', '1.10', '1.11', '1.20',
>>> '1.20.1', '1.30']
>>>>>> foo.sort()
>>>>>> foo
>>> ['1.0', '1.0.1', '1.1.1', '1.10', '1.11', '1.2', '1.20', '1.20.1',
>>> '1.30', '1.9'] 
>>> 
>>> Obviously 1.20.1 should be after 1.9 if we look at this as
>>> dot-delimited integers, not as decimal numbers.
>> 
>> You need some general approach to avoid the DSU thing:
>> 
>> def funcsort(seq, func):
>>     """ sort seq by func(item) """
>>     seq = seq[:]
>>     seq.sort(lambda x, y: cmp(func(x), func(y)))
>>     return seq
>> 
>> funcsort(foo, lambda x: map(int, x.split('.')))
> 
> I've seen you give this advice several times, today, and IMO it's
> completely wrong.
> 
> DSU is *exactly* what you want to do. If you want to wrap it inside a
> general function, that's fine, but DSU is in almost all cases preferred
> to passing a comparison function - it's much faster.

If made some tests with lists of one million items:

The first test was with a randomized sequence of numbers from 1 -
1000000. Duplicate numbers were allowed. The comparing function was
the identity (lambda x: x).

You DSU approach took about 43 s and mine took about 86 s.
Than I tested range(1000000) in reverse order:
Your sorted program took about 24 s and mine about 5!

So you cannot simply state that DSU is faster than passing a function
if the structure of the input you want to sort is unknown...


Thorsten


From junkmail at solumslekt.org  Fri Apr 16 17:37:11 2004
From: junkmail at solumslekt.org (Leif B. Kristensen)
Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2004 23:37:11 +0200
Subject: Python OS
References: <107j4eu6ffn2c68@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <AmYfc.25733$zf6.95930@news4.e.nsc.no>

A Evans rose up and spake:

> My questions would then be, is Python capable of creating an OS from
> scratch and if so would it be plausible if possible

Apart from the somewhat insane idea of building yet another OS, you
should consider Niklaus Wirth's seminal ideas regarding Oberon, an
object-oriented OS. The freshest link I found right now after a very
cursory search on Google is this:

http://www.oberon.ethz.ch/native/

Why hasn't Wirth endorsed Python? Maybe the answer is here:

http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/2002-May/105946.html

regards,
-- 
Leif Biberg Kristensen
http://solumslekt.org/
Validare necesse est


From dyoo at hkn.eecs.berkeley.edu  Thu Apr  1 16:41:34 2004
From: dyoo at hkn.eecs.berkeley.edu (Daniel Yoo)
Date: Thu, 1 Apr 2004 21:41:34 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: ANNOUNCE: 'goto' for Python
References: <mailman.236.1080833648.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<m3u103vce1.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <c4i2ae$2qjb$1@agate.berkeley.edu>

Michael Hudson <mwh at python.net> wrote:
: Camilo Olarte <colarte at telesat.com.co> writes:

:> >> Entrian Solutions is pleased to announce version 1.0 of the 'goto'
:> >> module.
:> >>
:> >> This adds the 'goto' and 'comefrom' keywords to Python 2.3, adding
:> >> flexibility to Python's control flow mechanisms and allowing Python
:> >> programmers to use many common control flow idioms that were previously
:> >> denied to them.
:> 
:> >>>>>>   What is the day today ? Oh yes the first of April !    <<<<<<
:> 
:> OOUCH ! I Almost believe it!

: There's nothing to believe: it works!


Hello,


It doesn't work from the interactive interpreter, though:

###
>>> from goto import goto, label
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
  File "/usr/local/lib/python2.3/site-packages/goto.py", line 255, in _trace
    _addToCaches(filename)
  File "/usr/local/lib/python2.3/site-packages/goto.py", line 229, in _addToCaches
    for tokenType, tokenString, (startRow, startCol), (endRow, endCol), line \
IOError: [Errno 2] No such file or directory: '<stdin>'
###


I haven't looked at the code closely enough to understand exactly how
to fix this.  But in the meantime, here's a patch to at least give an
error message when one tries to use it interactively:



--- goto.py	Tue Mar 30 12:24:28 2004
+++ goto-fixed.py	Thu Apr  1 13:37:10 2004
@@ -208,6 +208,15 @@
 # Source filenames -> comefrom label names -> line numbers of those comefroms.
 _comefromNameCache = {}
 
+
+def _openModuleFilename(moduleFilename):
+    """Opens up the file named by moduleFilename.  In the special case where
+    the file is <stdin>, we raise an IOError."""
+    if moduleFilename == '<stdin>':
+        raise IOError, "module cannot be used on sys.stdin."
+    return open(moduleFilename, 'r')    
+
+
 def _addToCaches(moduleFilename):
     """Finds the labels and gotos in a module and adds them to the caches."""
 
@@ -227,7 +236,7 @@
     # Tokenize the module; 'window' is the last two (type, string) pairs.
     window = [(None, ''), (None, '')]
     for tokenType, tokenString, (startRow, startCol), (endRow, endCol), line \
-            in tokenize.generate_tokens(open(moduleFilename, 'r').readline):
+            in tokenize.generate_tokens(_openModuleFilename(moduleFilename).readline):
         # Plain goto: "goto .x"
         if window == plainGotoPattern:
             _plainGotoCache[moduleFilename][startRow] = tokenString



Hope this helps!


From fumanchu at amor.org  Fri Apr 23 15:27:12 2004
From: fumanchu at amor.org (Robert Brewer)
Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2004 12:27:12 -0700
Subject: codewalk.py (was RE: PEP 329 and bytecode hacking)
Message-ID: <DE1CF2B4FEC4A342BF62B6B2B334601E562052@opus.amorhq.net>

New, vastly improved version 0.3 at:
http://www.aminus.org/rbre/python/index.html which includes:

Visitor
Rewriter
JumpCodeAdjuster
Localizer (like Raymond's)
EarlyBinder
LambdaDecompiler


Phillip J. Eby wrote:
> For more sophisticated bytecode modifications, you'll want to 
> keep track of things like source line number, the nth
> instruction and its operand if any (so you can scan
> *backwards*), the list of locations of a given opcode, etc.

I don't mind the function-call overhead, really, and much prefer to
stick with the visitor style. The biggest change in the new version is
that the original bytecode is left unchanged--a copy is built and
mutated instead, so line numbers, etc. are still available as one
rewrites. You can also call walk() multiple times now and get the same
result.

You could subclass codewalk.Visitor to get a list of locations with
something like:

class Locator(codewalk.Visitor):
    def locations(self, *opcodes):
        # Allow named or numbered instructions.
        opcodes = codewalk.numeric_opcodes(opcodes)
        
        self.watch = dict([(key, []) for key in opcodes])
        self.walk()
        return self.watch
    
    def visit_instruction(self, op, lo=None, hi=None):
        if op in self.watch:
            self.watch[op].append(self.cursor)


print Locator(func).locations(100, 'LOAD_DEREF', 124)


Robert Brewer
MIS
Amor Ministries
fumanchu at amor.org



From peter at engcorp.com  Sun Apr 11 22:16:01 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Sun, 11 Apr 2004 22:16:01 -0400
Subject: Wrapper round x86 Assembler
In-Reply-To: <107g87b2k9cuoa7@corp.supernews.com>
References: <8089854e.0404082353.7bf163a2@posting.google.com>
	<4dKdnQlIXMIXIevdRVn-gg@powergate.ca>
	<8089854e.0404100204.504186a0@posting.google.com>
	<kcWdnaFpw_PvdurdRVn-sA@powergate.ca>
	<107g87b2k9cuoa7@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <LKWdnSi0Fq59ZuTdRVn-ug@powergate.ca>

Michael Geary wrote:

> Peter Hansen wrote:
> 
>>My main reason for pushing Pyrex as opposed to
>>discussing options for assembly programming is that
>>there's very little reason for people to be doing
>>assembly in the world these days. C is higher level yet
>>with an optimizing compiler allows better
>>performance in all but a few rare cases (meaning a
>>few rare problem domains and a few rare individuals).
> 
> On modern CPUs, unless you really know what you're doing, hand-written
> assembly code is likely to be slower than code generated by a good
> optimizing C/C++ compiler. If your assembly code is at all straightforward,
> it will definitely be slower than compiled code, because you'll be stalling
> the CPU all over the place when one instruction waits for the results of a
> previous one.

I think that's what I just said...


From eltronic at juno.com  Sat Apr  3 17:53:09 2004
From: eltronic at juno.com (eltronic at juno.com)
Date: Sat, 3 Apr 2004 17:53:09 -0500
Subject: rlght click menu missing in most Tk apps
Message-ID: <20040403.175310.-478629.3.eltronic@juno.com>

On Sat, 03 Apr 2004 09:13:00 -0700 Stewart Midwinter <stewart
midtoad.homelinux.org> writes:
> On Wed, 31 Mar 2004 22:09:57 -0500, eltronic wrote:
> 
> > here is some code to add right click context menus.
> > in the few apps I've edited sofar, it just works, once
> > you run rCbinder with the root of the gui or bind B3
> > all present and future widgets will have right click.
> 
> How about a little example app showing your idea in use?
ok, I kinda did, but heres another.

redemo in yourpythondir/Tools/Scripts/redemo.py
often recommended along with kudos.
good for your sanity when working on regex's

has an entry widget to enter a regular expression,
a text box to enter data and another to show matches.
we are just going to add right click menu to redemo.
import it into your favorite editor.

scroll down to def main(): 
and unfold it if using a folding editor.
add rClickbinder(root) so it looks like:

    rClickbinder(root)
    root.mainloop()

back to the top just after the
import re

insert these 2 functions

def rClicker(e):
    ''' right click context menu for all Tk Entry and Text widgets
    '''
    import Tkinter as Tk

    def rClick_Copy(e, apnd=0):
        e.widget.event_generate('<Control-c>')

    def rClick_Cut(e):
        e.widget.event_generate('<Control-x>')

    def rClick_Paste(e): 
        e.widget.event_generate('<Control-v>')

    def rClick_insert(s,e): #insert s at the current curser position
        e.widget.insert("insert", s)

    e.widget.focus()

    nclst=[
        ('      ',None),   #
        (' Cut', lambda e=e: rClick_Cut(e)),  
        (' Copy', lambda e=e: rClick_Copy(e)),
        (' Paste', lambda e=e: rClick_Paste(e)),

        ('>>>>>>>','insertS'),  #start named cascade  submenu
        (' \\\\n ', lambda s='\\n',  e=e:  rClick_insert(s, e) ),
        ('   [] ', lambda s='[]',  e=e:  rClick_insert(s, e) ),
        ('   () ', lambda s='()',  e=e:  rClick_insert(s, e) ),
        ('>>>>>>>',None),    #end named cascade  submenu

        ]
    
    rmenu = Tk.Menu(None, tearoff=0, takefocus=0)
    cas = {}
    cascade = 0
    
    for (txt, cmd) in nclst:
        if txt.startswith('>>>>>>') or cascade:
            if txt.startswith('>>>>>>') and cascade and cmd == None:
                #done cascade
                cascade = 0
                rmenu.add_cascade( label=icmd, menu = cas[icmd] )
    
            elif cascade:
                if txt == ' ------ ':
                    cas[icmd].add_separator()
                    
                else: cas[icmd].add_command(label=txt, command=cmd)
    
            else:  # start cascade
                cascade = 1
                icmd = cmd[:]
                cas[icmd] = Tk.Menu(rmenu, tearoff=0, takefocus=0)
        else:
            if txt == ' ------ ':
                rmenu.add_separator()
            else: rmenu.add_command(label=txt, command=cmd)

    rmenu.entryconfigure(0, label = "redemo", state = 'disabled')
    rmenu.tk_popup(e.x_root-3, e.y_root+3,entry="0")

    return "break"

def rClickbinder(r):
    for b in [ 'Text', 'Entry', 'Listbox', 'Label']:  # 
        r.bind_class(b, sequence='<Button-3>',
                          func=rClicker, add='')
#done

caveat time, I haven't tested this on nix and
I can imagine with some window managers
the right click menu won't unpost itself if
redemo loses focus. I'm sure someone will be
able to suggest a fix if this is the case.


e
please forward all spam to  uce at ftc.gov


________________________________________________________________
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From peter at engcorp.com  Sun Apr 11 22:28:07 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Sun, 11 Apr 2004 22:28:07 -0400
Subject: Python is the best and most popular general purpose scripting
 language; the universal scripting language
In-Reply-To: <roy-22B4DA.18282210042004@reader1.panix.com>
References: <a5415304.0404101350.271088f2@posting.google.com>
	<roy-22B4DA.18282210042004@reader1.panix.com>
Message-ID: <p62dnX76b4gqY-TdRVn-ig@powergate.ca>

Roy Smith wrote:

> rstephens at vectron.com (Ron Stephens) wrote:
>>Python is the best and most popular general purpose scripting
>>language.
> 
> Which raises the question, exactly what makes something a "scripting" 
> langauge?  When I tell people I do Python, they often say something 
> like, "that's a scripting language, right?".  My usual response is 
> something along the lines of "Well, I suppose that depends on who you 
> ask" and I'm not sure what to say after that.
> 
> So, what makes something a "scripting language" as opposed to a 
> "programming language"?

For anyone thinking of adding to this thread, please consider
reading (or re-reading) the following threads first, and post
only if you have something original to add.  It would make our
good friends at Google feel like all their hard work (and Python)
code hadn't gone to waste.  <wink>

 From 2002:

http://groups.google.ca/groups?threadm=dazD8.13642%24ph2.436138%40news4.ulv.nextra.no

 From 2001:

http://groups.google.ca/groups?threadm=mailman.994804336.23495.python-list%40python.org

 From 2000:

http://groups.google.ca/groups?threadm=y39V5.524%24OC.159868%40typhoon.aracnet.com

 From 1999:

http://groups.google.ca/groups?threadm=37c66347.518331%40news.netset.com

At this point, Guido needed the time machine back and I had to stop
searching...

-Peter


From mark at borgerding.net  Mon Apr 19 22:07:40 2004
From: mark at borgerding.net (Mark Borgerding)
Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 02:07:40 GMT
Subject: Processes with timeout
In-Reply-To: <c614u6$ekq$04$1@news.t-online.com>
References: <c614u6$ekq$04$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <MB%gc.32118$GN6.31333@fe2.columbus.rr.com>

Markus Franz wrote:
> How can I make it sure that every child-process terminates after x senconds
> (wether it has finished or not)?
> I don't know how to force a child-process to kill itself after x seconds. I
> also don't know how to force a main process (parent) to kill a child-process
> after x seconds.

signal.alarm(x)



# after x seconds, a SIGALRM signal will be sent to the current process 
# (even if the contents of the process changes via exec* )



-- Mark Borgerding



From thorsten at thorstenkampe.de  Wed Apr 28 19:13:15 2004
From: thorsten at thorstenkampe.de (Thorsten Kampe)
Date: Thu, 29 Apr 2004 01:13:15 +0200
Subject: sorting a list
References: <f046efac.0403091513.3b392074@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <17i4tmtsfvae9$.dlg@thorstenkampe.de>

* ketulp_baroda at yahoo.com (2004-03-10 01:13 +0100)
> I want to sort a list.
> My problem is:
> 
>>>> a=['a','f','F','A','D']
>>>> a.sort()
>>>> a
> ['A','D', 'F', 'a', 'f']
> 
> But I am actually looking for an output:
> ['A','a','D','F','f']
> 
> Is there any module to sort a list this way?

You need a general approach:

def funcsort(seq, func):
    """ sort seq by func(item) """
    seq = seq[:]
    seq.sort(lambda x, y: cmp(func(x), func(y)))
    return seq

funcsort(a, lambda x: ord(x.upper()) + x.islower()/2.0)


Thorsten


From stephen.homer1 at ntlworld.com  Thu Apr 29 10:38:46 2004
From: stephen.homer1 at ntlworld.com (Steve Homer)
Date: Thu, 29 Apr 2004 15:38:46 +0100
Subject: Confusion with os.popen os.spawnl and dvbstream
Message-ID: <40911376.8060405@ntlworld.com>

Hi everyone,

Appologies if this is the wrong forum for this post.

I am a little confused by the code below and any help would be much 
appreciated.

import os,signal,time,sys

class Tzap:
        tzap_exe = '/usr/local/bin/tzap'

        def __init__(self, channel_string):
                self.channel = channel_string

        def SetChannel(self):
                print "Tzap.SetChannel()"
                self.channelpid = os.spawnlp(os.P_NOWAIT, self.tzap_exe, 
self.tzap_exe, self.channel)
                time.sleep(5)
                os.kill(self.channelpid, signal.SIGKILL)
                print "End Tzap.SetChannel()"

class Record:
        dvbstream_exe = '/usr/local/bin/dvbstream'

        def __init__(self, minutes_to_record):
                self.duration = minutes_to_record

        def Record(self):
                commandline = ' -ps 600 601 -o > /Media/Movies/BBC.mpg'
                print self.dvbstream_exe, commandline

                # These are the confusing lines....

                #self.dvbstream_pid = os.popen3(self.dvbstream_exe + 
commandline)
                self.dvbstream_pid = os.spawnl(os.P_NOWAIT, 
self.dvbstream_exe, self.dvbstream_exe, commandline)

                time.sleep(self.duration * 60)

                os.kill(self.dvbstream_pid, signal.SIGKILL)


print "start tzap"
tzap = Tzap('BBC ONE')
tzap.SetChannel()
print "stop tzap"
print "start record"
recorder = Record(1)
recorder.Record()

using the popen3 function I get an mpg stream recording in BBC.mpg but 
using spawnl I get the following

/usr/local/bin/dvbstream  -ps 600 601 -o > /Media/Movies/BBC.mpg
dvbstream v0.5 - (C) Dave Chapman 2001-2004
Released under the GPL.
Latest version available from http://www.linuxstb.org/
Using 224.0.1.2:5004:2
version=2
Streaming 0 streams

and no data in the file. I guess this is something to do with the 
different environment in each case, but I don't know where to start 
debugging it. Any pointers would be much appreciated.

Thanks,
Steve



From p_s_oberoi at hotmail.com  Tue Apr 27 19:51:28 2004
From: p_s_oberoi at hotmail.com (Paramjit Oberoi)
Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2004 18:51:28 -0500
Subject: parallel for loops
References: <0SAjc.12421$Gd3.3093654@news4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net>
Message-ID: <pan.2004.04.27.23.51.26.591770@hotmail.com>

>>>> a, b = [1,2,3], [4,5,6]     # a = [1,2,3], b = [4,5,6]
>>>> for a, b in zip([1,2,3], [4,5,6]): print a, b
> 
> instead of:
>>>> for a, b in [1,2,3], [4,5,6]: print a, b     # illegal
> 
> im sure there is a good reason why the former was chosen, and i know its way
> too late to switch, but i cant think of many examples of when you would use
> parallel iteration *without* zip. not even dictionaries since you have to

dates = [(2004, 4, 27), (2004, 2, 9), (2003, 11, 14)]
for year, month, day in dates:
    do_something_with(year)
    and_with(month, date)

Also, it's more consistent: in each iteration, an element of the
list being iterated over is assigned to the loop variable; or if
it's multiple variables, automatic unpacking happens just like it
would if a value were assigned to multiple variables in an
assignment statement.


From jcarlson at uci.edu  Sat Apr  3 03:18:04 2004
From: jcarlson at uci.edu (Josiah Carlson)
Date: Sat, 03 Apr 2004 00:18:04 -0800
Subject: Indent testers needed (Prothon)
In-Reply-To: <2Msbc.136673$cx5.2385@fed1read04>
References: <Unqbc.131025$cx5.57643@fed1read04>
	<b5rbc.132699$cx5.63133@fed1read04>
	<Xns94C0217D6BF1rzed@63.223.5.95>
	<2Msbc.136673$cx5.2385@fed1read04>
Message-ID: <c4lsa1$ai6$1@news.service.uci.edu>

>>/* loop 2 */
>>ix = 2
>>for
>>  item
>>    in
>>      blist
>>        :
>>          alist[ix] =
>>               alist[
>>          ix
>>          ]
> 
> 
> Do you think this is a good thing or a bad thing?  You could do the same
> thing or worse in C or Java.

It is a bad thing.  Just because you could do worse in a language that 
is indentation agnostic, doesn't mean that you shouldn't discourage (if 
not disallow) such behavior in a language that is bases scope on 
indentation.

The above code shows how you can make Prothon code extraordinarily ugly 
by exploting the continuation rules.  Certainly most people don't see 
such ugly continuations in Python, but I think rule #3 is begging for 
trouble.


  - Josiah


From peter at engcorp.com  Thu Apr 22 22:13:34 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2004 22:13:34 -0400
Subject: ready to use python, need help with GUI decision
In-Reply-To: <mailman.932.1082672667.20120.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.0.1078340778.736.python-list@python.org>	<4046D3E4.9040007@zoran.com>
	<mailman.932.1082672667.20120.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <ZIqdnawYaN1T5hXd4p2dnA@powergate.ca>

Jonathon McKitrick wrote:

> On Thu, Mar 04, 2004 at 08:59:48AM +0200, Miki Tebeka wrote:
> : Hello Jonathon,
> : 
> : >Can anyone offer any advice?
> : I use wxPython here at work and I'm very pleased with it. Native look 
> : and feel, a lot of widgets ...
> : There are some nice UI designers as well (Boa, wxGlade ...). The UI in 
> : my projects is not that complicated to I write all the GUI in VIm, the 
> : *Sizer are wonderful.
> 
> I started out with tk/Pwm for my first decent sized project, and I really
> like it.  I also decided to take a look at wxPython, just for comparison.  I
> like the richness, but on an older laptop, it seems to take much more CPU,
> like Java.  Does anyone else find that to be the case?

I *think*, given that wxPython is a thin (?) Python wrapper around
a C++ DLL that makes native calls to the OS, while Tkinter is a
Python wrapper around a TCL wrapper (complete with TCL interpreter)
around something that makes native OS calls to the OS, that wxPython
has an inherent and relatively significant advantage, performance-
wise.  At least, that's my theory.  I don't recall having tried
to compare them in this respect, nor do I recall past discussions
about it (though I bet Google groups does <wink>).

-Peter


From mickel at csc.fi  Thu Apr  1 01:10:21 2004
From: mickel at csc.fi (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Mickel_Gr=F6nroos?=)
Date: Thu, 1 Apr 2004 09:10:21 +0300 (EEST)
Subject: saving a tkinter canvas
In-Reply-To: <WQIac.1650$Pk3.1304@pd7tw1no>
References: <WQIac.1650$Pk3.1304@pd7tw1no>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0404010906220.17076@sampo.csc.fi>

On Wed, 31 Mar 2004, Elaine Jackson wrote:

> Newbie. Playing with the 'turtle' module and wondering if there's a way to save
> the graphics you make with it. The documentation itself has nothing to say about
> this, nor (as far as I can tell) does the FAQ list at python-dot-org. Any
> pointers would be very much appreciated.

You can save Tkinter.Canvases as PostScript using the
Tkinter.Canvas.postscript() method.

>>> import Tkinter
>>> root = Tkinter.Tk()
>>> canvas = Tkinter.Canvas(root)
>>> canvas.pack()
>>> rect = canvas.create_rectangle(10,10,100,100, fill="blue")
>>> retval = canvas.postscript(file="saved.ps", height=100, width=100, colormode="color")
>>>

/Mickel

--
Mickel Gr?nroos, application specialist, linguistics, Research support, CSC
PL 405 (Tekniikantie 15 a D), 02101 Espoo, Finland, phone +358-9-4572237
CSC is the Finnish IT center for science, www.csc.fi






From greg at invalid.invalid  Tue Apr 27 22:38:25 2004
From: greg at invalid.invalid (Greg Krohn)
Date: Wed, 28 Apr 2004 02:38:25 GMT
Subject: Don't understand wxPython ids
In-Reply-To: <408ed938$0$17263$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
References: <408ed938$0$17263$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
Message-ID: <BOEjc.12559$eZ5.4366@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>

Grant Edwards wrote:
> I've decided to learn wxPython, and I'm afraid I just don't
> grok the whole "id" thing where you have to pull unique
> integers out of your, er, the air and then use those to refer
> to objects:
> 
> From whe wxPython wiki examples:
> 
>   self.button =wxButton(self, 10, "Save", wxPoint(200, 325))
>   EVT_BUTTON(self, 10, self.OnClick)
> 
> Does the 10 have any function other than as a handle that
> allows you to refer to self.button in the EVT* call?

AFAIK, yes. But then again, I don't know much. Note that you can use -1 
as the id and the button will create it's own unique id for you. Then 
all you have to do is call button.GetId() whenever you need it.

> You're supposed to just make up unique id numbers for objects
> when a) they've already got unique id numbers [at least the id
> builtin thinks so] and b) they've got names that make things
> even more readable? 
> 
> This feels very assmebly-level.  No, it's even worse than
> assembly language, since even assembly language has labels and
> symbols.
> 
> Why not this:
> 
>   self.button =wxButton(self, 10, "Save", wxPoint(200, 325))
>   EVT_BUTTON(self, self.button, self.OnClick)
> 
> Or better yet this:  
> 
>   self.button =wxButton(self, 10, "Save", wxPoint(200, 325), action=self.OnClick)
> 
> This last way seems pretty intuitive...
> 
> Can somebody clue me in on the advantages of the
> progrmmer-generated integer id numbers for objects?

In the new wxPython (2.5.1.5) there's an easier way to bind events 
without using ids at all using widget.Bind, like this:



import wx

class MyFrame(wx.Frame):
     def __init__(self, *args, **kwargs):
         wx.Frame.__init__(self, *args, **kwargs)

         self.button = wx.Button(self, -1, "What's my id?")
         self.button.Bind(wx.EVT_BUTTON, self.OnButtonPress)

     def OnButtonPress(self, event):
         self.button.SetLabel("My id is: %d" % self.button.GetId())


app = wx.App()
frame = MyFrame(None, -1, "Events and ids")
frame.Show(True)
app.MainLoop()



I can only think of one reasn why they chose to use ids in the first 
place. Assigning many objects the same id allows you to use one EVT_* 
call for those objects. But is that really a useful feature? Who knows?

greg


From free at freedom.place  Sat Apr  3 17:35:21 2004
From: free at freedom.place (free)
Date: Sun, 04 Apr 2004 10:35:21 +1200
Subject: OT (was Re: But it still doesn't explain the joke)
References: <mailman.189.1080759511.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<kmjsj1-89u.ln1@snout.lairds.org> <c4glmq$j1i$1@swifty.westend.com>
	<c4h6ad$lu0$1@panix1.panix.com>
	<106o7vn56fgmt85@corp.supernews.com>
	<XoWdnevUOvXsu_HdRVn-tA@powergate.ca>
Message-ID: <406F3C29.6030504@freedom.place>



Peter Hansen wrote:
> Cameron Laird wrote:
> 
>> In the litigious US, court cases for everything are unceasing.  What
>> I suspect you have in mind is a Supreme Court hearing for a father
>> who, if I understand correctly, claims his religious freedom as an 
>> atheist unconstitutionally impaired because of a requirement imposed
>> by the public school his daughter attends that she recite The Pledge
>> <URL: http://slate.msn.com/id/2097737/ >.
>>
>> More background appears at <URL: http://slate.msn.com/id/2067499/ >.
> 
> 
> Without following the links to verify, I'll just note (since I
> was reading this on the subway while heading for the PyCon venue)
> that the recitation is apparently not even mandatory (for the girl)
> but the father was objecting that she would even have to stand
> there and listen to it.  (I don't know what the "rules" say, but
> the school representative said the girl didn't even have to say
> the pledge.)
> 
> -Peter

The father is put in an awkward position of having to explain how he is 
not a traitor to his country of birth.

Edison, "Religion is bunk".



From claird at lairds.com  Sat Apr  3 06:23:49 2004
From: claird at lairds.com (Cameron Laird)
Date: Sat, 03 Apr 2004 11:23:49 -0000
Subject: Using bound variables in Tkinter events
References: <4067a227$0$16577$5a62ac22@freenews.iinet.net.au>
	<c4en2v$uvm$07$1@news.t-online.com>
	<406b7c51$0$16594$5a62ac22@freenews.iinet.net.au>
	<c4gf64$3df$04$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <106t7m5i72jo58a@corp.supernews.com>

In article <c4gf64$3df$04$1 at news.t-online.com>,
Peter Otten  <__peter__ at web.de> wrote:
			.
			.
			.
>register() wraps a python function into a tcl function and returns the new
>tcl function's name (can they start with a number?). If you provide a
			.
			.
			.
The pronoun lost me, I think.  Tcl has procedures, not
functions, but, yes, their names can be *anything*;
there are clever uses of [proc]s with such outrageous
names as '1', 'proc quine args {...}', and even ''.
-- 

Cameron Laird <claird at phaseit.net>
Business:  http://www.Phaseit.net


From peter at engcorp.com  Sun Apr 25 08:23:47 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Sun, 25 Apr 2004 08:23:47 -0400
Subject: ZWiki and FitTests (was Re: Richards bench benchmark)
In-Reply-To: <95aa1afa.0404242222.15101178@posting.google.com>
References: <6748553f.0403291446.27fb7b93@posting.google.com>
	<jLCdnW28-PB6cfXdRVn-iQ@powergate.ca>
	<6748553f.0403300836.744e3e22@posting.google.com>
	<Etqdnd8EeYGjM_TdRVn-jA@powergate.ca>
	<6748553f.0403302317.4595844@posting.google.com>
	<RuKdnc0lmsZFTfHdRVn-ug@powergate.ca>
	<6748553f.0404060802.6e0d708c@posting.google.com>
	<nrKdnaEeNcXAYu_dRVn-vw@powergate.ca>
	<6748553f.0404211342.7591cd8e@posting.google.com>
	<40899240.7020508@engcorp.com>
	<95aa1afa.0404242222.15101178@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <fIOdnZ5iiNpJMBbd4p2dnA@powergate.ca>

Michele Simionato wrote:

> Peter Hansen <peter at engcorp.com> wrote in message news:<40899240.7020508 at engcorp.com>...
> 
>>http://www.engcorp.com/main/projects/PyBench .
>> The above page is a wiki ...
> 
> <remark having nothing to do with the original question>
> 
> I see that you use ZWiki; I started using it few days ago
> and I like it. My question: did you succeed in getting
> the testing framework (http://www.zwiki.org/FitTests) to work?
> It seems it is very new and it does not work out of the box,
> at least for me. Alternatively, which Web-based test framework
> (Fitnless-like) would you suggest for Python?
> 
> The question is of course open to everybody having expertise
> in the area.
> </remark having nothing to do with the original question>

I use ZWiki because four years ago when we tried to set up an
Intranet at Kaval, we got Zope and ZWiki working very easily
with little effort.

Then we tried to build on that, and improve things, and write
our own products, and we encountered what seemed like a very
tall and steep learning curve with Zope.  We never got a whole
lot further with it, but it remains for me one of the simplest
combinations of things available to get a wiki set up
quickly (i.e. a couple of minutes of work, post installation).

You'll notice, perhaps, that I'm using a fairly old version
of ZWiki.  I'm loath to update, at this point, partly because
"it's working" and partly because I try to make as few changes
as possible to anything we do with Zope, including attempting
to figure out how to get the "new" testing framework working.
(I say "new" because of course I'm now way behind the times
in this area and most others of Zope.)  I'm not particularly
surprised to hear that you didn't get it working yourself.

-Peter


From luis_ at iname.com  Fri Apr  9 05:00:18 2004
From: luis_ at iname.com (Lupe)
Date: Fri, 09 Apr 2004 10:00:18 +0100
Subject: maximum length of a list & tuple
References: <c54lq3$2pe1sf$1@ID-202776.news.uni-berlin.de>
	<bvednZaKK7OybejdRVn-iQ@centurytel.net>
Message-ID: <c55okv$2o3eql$1@ID-202776.news.uni-berlin.de>

I just would like to know if there is any limit to a list or tuple.


From peter at engcorp.com  Thu Apr 15 05:58:17 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2004 05:58:17 -0400
Subject: Difficulty Finding Python Developers
In-Reply-To: <6ee58e07.0404141440.4d8ab0f4@posting.google.com>
References: <65cbc3dd.0404140641.3501fde8@posting.google.com>
	<407D6269.3090909@engcorp.com>
	<6ee58e07.0404141440.4d8ab0f4@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <be2dnQX4uM4kwePdRVn-sw@powergate.ca>

Lothar Scholz wrote:

> Peter Hansen <peter at engcorp.com> wrote in message news:<407D6269.3090909 at engcorp.com>...
> 
>>Paul Morrow wrote:
>>Don't hire "Python programmers".  I successfully staffed a team
>>with over twenty five developers over the last five years, without
>>once hiring anyone who was a "Python programmer".  I did make an
> 
> There is a difference between a long term development team and a three
> month milestone programm task. In the later case you must hire an
> experienced python programmer - if possible.

Nonsense!  At least, not necessarily...  I suppose I can imagine
projects which are such that you absolutely have to hire someone
with detailed knowledge of a particular library (let's say Twisted)
or programming style (threading).  On the other hand, they are
not likely to have estimated such a project at three months, or
they would be planning just to outsource it so they could see
the results before deciding how effective it was to use Python.

Most such short projects, in any general purpose language, should be
doable by very experienced programmers even if they are not initially
familiar with the language, IMHO and in my experience.  I don't
think I've ever chosen to hire someone new just for their language
experience for a trial project rather than have an existing,
trusted, capable employee learn enough of the language to do the
job instead.

-Peter


From andreas.lobinger at netsurf.de  Wed Apr 21 04:31:27 2004
From: andreas.lobinger at netsurf.de (Andreas Lobinger)
Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2004 10:31:27 +0200
Subject: PDF library?
References: <7xad1631j8.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<pan.2004.04.21.09.49.28.891429@NOTTHISBIT.webone.com.au>
	<7xzn96drse.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <408630C3.2BD8F7CE@netsurf.de>
Message-ID: <4086315F.75A9270C@netsurf.de>

Andreas Lobinger schrieb:
> If you read comp.text.pdf you will find various solutions for composing


From cmg at dok.org  Fri Apr 16 18:12:40 2004
From: cmg at dok.org (Chris Green)
Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2004 18:12:40 -0400
Subject: newbie question
References: <Xns94CCA389D3DA0plasticnospamplsxsin@216.77.188.18>
	<c5mtsl$dns$2@absinth.dialog.net.pl>
	<Xns94CCA82D89C84plasticnospamplsxsin@216.77.188.18>
	<c5mvrg$fda$1@absinth.dialog.net.pl>
	<Xns94CCAEBD1A18Eplasticnospamplsxsin@216.77.188.18>
	<c5occn$ijq@newton.cc.rl.ac.uk>
	<Xns94CDA4FFA4F1Dplasticnospamplsxsin@216.77.188.18>
Message-ID: <m27jwfy3l3.fsf@catbert.dok.org>

jeff <plastic"no-spam-pls"@xsintrk.net> writes:

> how can i be sure i have received the entire string?

You need to queue up the data returned and have a protocol defined for
when a command terminates such as '\r\n'. Ugly Untested code below.

buf = ""
delim = "\r\n"

while 1:
    sdata = s.recv(1024)

    if not sdata:
        break

    # append sdata to the buf
    buf += sdata

    while 1:
        idx = buf.find(delim)
    
        if idx > -1:
           cmd = buf[:idx]  # grab cmd
           buf = buf[:idx + len(delim)] # save off the rest of the command
    
           if cmd == "kill":
                s.close()
                print "Received:", sdata
        else:
           break  # breaks inner loop

-- 
Chris Green <cmg at dok.org>
TCP: Treason uncloaked!


From peter at engcorp.com  Sat Apr 24 08:52:31 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Sat, 24 Apr 2004 08:52:31 -0400
Subject: How to check if a path *could* be a legal path?
In-Reply-To: <slrnc8kntf.pk.jgrahn-nntq@frailea.sa.invalid>
References: <c62ums$b3b$1@atlantis.news.tpi.pl>
	<cYqdnauMDdsosxjd4p2dnA@comcast.com>
	<slrnc8kntf.pk.jgrahn-nntq@frailea.sa.invalid>
Message-ID: <pqidnd24pqKS_hfdRVn-gQ@powergate.ca>

Jorgen Grahn wrote:

> By the way, for Unix the test is pretty easy. It's more or less
>   def isValid(path): return path and not '\0' in path

Aren't there also length limits, and limits which differ
depending on the specific *nix variant one has?

-Peter


From OlafMeding at noSpam.compuserve.com  Fri Apr 30 06:59:16 2004
From: OlafMeding at noSpam.compuserve.com (Olaf Meding)
Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2004 05:59:16 -0500
Subject: COM Interface Question
References: <9e5ea2c4.0404291130.72e81c2e@posting.google.com>
	<c6s5vn$1lv9$1@arachne.labyrinth.net.au>
Message-ID: <40923157$1_3@newspeer2.tds.net>

Mark

The IDL shows a uuid for the IUser interface (bf79...).  How would I use
IDispatch() to create an IUser as required by the put user call?

Here are excerpts from the IDL file:
[
    object,
    uuid(bf79b6c7-47be-11d2-bacd-006008060a3a),
    dual,
    helpstring("IERecord Interface"),
    pointer_default(unique),
    nonextensible,
    hidden
  ]
  interface IUser : IDispatch

  interface IERecord : IDispatch
  {
    [propput, id(1), helpstring("property User")]
      HRESULT User([in] IUser *newVal);



Again, your help is much appreciated.

Olaf






From mickel at csc.fi  Tue Apr 20 01:41:25 2004
From: mickel at csc.fi (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Mickel_Gr=F6nroos?=)
Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 08:41:25 +0300 (EEST)
Subject: Tkinter: Selecting one item in each of two listboxes
In-Reply-To: <c61j4n$h7s$1@sea.gmane.org>
References: <c61j4n$h7s$1@sea.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0404200837510.15817@sampo.csc.fi>

On Mon, 19 Apr 2004, Jeffrey Barish wrote:

> I have an application that produces two listboxes.  I would like to be
> able to select one of the items in the first listbox and one of the
> items in the second listbox.

Try setting exportselection to 0, i.e.

listbox.config(exportselection=0)

or in the constructor:

listbox = Listbox(listbox1_frame, exportselection=0)

The selections in the listboxes will not be copied to the clipboard, but
on the other hand you get the effect you wanted, i.e. there can be
selections in more than one listbox at a time.

/Mickel

--
Mickel Gr?nroos, application specialist, linguistics, Research support, CSC
PL 405 (Tekniikantie 15 a D), 02101 Espoo, Finland, phone +358-9-4572237
CSC is the Finnish IT center for science, www.csc.fi



From fumanchu at amor.org  Thu Apr 22 16:54:53 2004
From: fumanchu at amor.org (Robert Brewer)
Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2004 13:54:53 -0700
Subject: bytecode JUMP_IF_* always followed by POP_TOP?
Message-ID: <DE1CF2B4FEC4A342BF62B6B2B334601E562048@opus.amorhq.net>

I asked:
> bytecode JUMP_IF_* always followed by POP_TOP?

Partially answering my own question:

>>> def f(x):
... 	if x and a:
... 		y
... 	else:
... 		z
... 		
>>> dis.dis(f)
  2           0 LOAD_FAST                0 (x)
              3 JUMP_IF_FALSE            4 (to 10)
              6 POP_TOP             
              7 LOAD_GLOBAL              1 (a)
        >>   10 JUMP_IF_FALSE            8 (to 21)
             13 POP_TOP             

  3          14 LOAD_GLOBAL              2 (y)
             17 POP_TOP             
             18 JUMP_FORWARD             5 (to 26)
        >>   21 POP_TOP             

  5          22 LOAD_GLOBAL              3 (z)
             25 POP_TOP             
        >>   26 LOAD_CONST               0 (None)
             29 RETURN_VALUE        

...the first JIF branches to either POP_TOP or the JIF at instr#10,
which then POPs the TOS. So intermediate JUMPs are possible. Any other
intermediates?


FuManChu



From fumanchu at amor.org  Thu Apr 29 02:58:03 2004
From: fumanchu at amor.org (Robert Brewer)
Date: Wed, 28 Apr 2004 23:58:03 -0700
Subject: Don't understand wxPython ids
Message-ID: <DE1CF2B4FEC4A342BF62B6B2B334601E56207A@opus.amorhq.net>

Greg Ewing wrote:
> Roger Binns wrote:
> > Here is how I use the same id in multiple locations.  I can have a
> > menu entry, a toolbar button, and a button inside some HTML all
> > invoke the same function.  The only coupling between them is
> > the id number.
> 
> Giving an identifier to a command so that it can be
> invoked in multiple ways is a good idea, but it would
> be much more Pythonic if a *name* could be used as the
> identifier rather than a number.
> 
> Use of a number here seems to be entirely the result
> of blindly carrying over a feature of the C++-oriented
> API into Python.

Dang. If only we had some kind of tool in Python that could 'map' names
to numbers, and perhaps another that could (what's a good word?) 'wrap'
one function in another. Oh, well. Back to Java, I guess. ;)


FuManChu



From fumanchu at amor.org  Wed Apr 21 18:07:44 2004
From: fumanchu at amor.org (Robert Brewer)
Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2004 15:07:44 -0700
Subject: PEP 329 and bytecode hacking
Message-ID: <DE1CF2B4FEC4A342BF62B6B2B334601E562037@opus.amorhq.net>

Phillip J. Eby wrote (on python-dev):
> ...builtins can potentially be optimized away
> altogether (e.g. 'while True:') or converted to fast
> LOAD_CONST, or perhaps even a new CALL_BUILTIN opcode...

Raymond's cookbook recipe inspired me to write a generic Visitor for
inspecting and rewriting bytecode. Maybe it'll help someone out there
with prototyping bytecode hacks.

Bytecode is scanned in order, and if the Visitor class has a method
'visit_OPNAME', that's called (with the opcode argument, if present).
This is similar in interface style to compiler.Transformer, SGMLParser,
etc. It's nowhere near bulletproof or complete, and needs docs, but it's
a good start: 'codewalk.py' at http://www.aminus.org/rbre/python/ All
comments welcome.

It includes the class LocalizeGlobals, which provides the same
functionality as PEP 329. I hope to make BindEarly stronger so I can use
it for generating SQL from simple lambdas (for an OO-DB mapper I'm
working on). Heck, I'd like to rewrite the dis module with it sometime.
;)


Robert Brewer
MIS
Amor Ministries
fumanchu at amor.org



From rzantow at ntelos.net  Mon Apr  5 16:51:59 2004
From: rzantow at ntelos.net (rzed)
Date: Mon, 05 Apr 2004 20:51:59 GMT
Subject: How to assign a default constant value in a function declaration
References: <mailman.341.1081121191.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<Xns94C252B3C74BBrzed@63.223.5.95> <40716899$1@news.vo.lu>
	<4071a362@nntp0.pdx.net>
Message-ID: <Xns94C2ABE8727B7rzed@63.223.5.95>

Scott David Daniels <Scott.Daniels at Acm.Org> wrote in
news:4071a362 at nntp0.pdx.net: 

> Marco Bartel wrote:
> 
>> rzed wrote:
>> 
[...]
>>> Do you mean in a context like this?
>>>    class Const:
>>>        someVal=255
>>>        otherVal=0
>>>
>>>    def blip(Const.someVal):
> Should be:
>        def blip(test=Const.someVal):
>> 
>> i checked this out, and i think its the name you were using:
>> Const
> Nope, it is the missing arg name.
> 

Well, not so much that as an incorrectly formed parameter name. I 
can legally do this:
    	def blip( someVal ):
    	    	...

but not this:
    	def blip( x.someVal ):
=> SyntaxError aimed at the dot.

Since there is no argname to assign a value to, "Const.someVal" is 
taken as an identifier for a passed-in parameter. But it seems 
(sensibly enough) that an identifier can't contain a '.' character, 
which evidently is reserved for a qualifier separator (or some such 
term) in that context.

-- 
rzed



From no.email at please.com  Tue Apr 13 12:33:44 2004
From: no.email at please.com (Stevie_mac)
Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2004 17:33:44 +0100
Subject: Python crashes - cannot pin it down!
Message-ID: <qDUec.75076$Id.1355@news-binary.blueyonder.co.uk>

Figure this!

###   Shell1    ###
>>> from wxPython.wx import *
>>> mb = wxMessageBox('hello')

###   testmb.py ###
from wxPython.wx import *
mb = wxMessageBox('hello')


 App/Util/Interpreter   Running            Result
+----------------------+------------------+--------------------
 PythonWin              Shell1             Crash 1 (see below) 
 PythonWin              testmb.py          Crash 2 (see below) 
 Python.exe             testmb.py          Crash 3 (see below) 
 Pythonw.exe            testmb.py          Crash 4 (see below)
 Boa (in shell)         Shell1             OK (ran 5 times in a row)
 Boa (run module)       testmb.py          Crash 5 (see below)
 Boa (debug run)        testmb.py          Crash 5 (see below)
 SPE 0.4.2.a (in shell) Shell1             OK
 SPE 0.4.2.a (in shell) testmb.py          OK

I don't get how SPE can run the module but Python.exe and Pythonw.exe can't!  
  Does SPE initialise somthing I don't!
I don't get how Boa can execute these cmds from the shell even though Python.exe and Pythonw.exe can't! 

Is there another Python interpteter involved here?

I did notice an exe called PythonService.exe - is this doing it (i don't believe it is! - never shows in process list & is not installed as a service!)

I'm not that bothered about debugging at the moment, would just like to get the wxPython stuff running reliably.


Confused!


     
Crash 1...
Faulting application pythonwin.exe, version 0.0.0.0, faulting module wxmsw24uh.dll, version 0.0.0.0, fault address 0x0012cd2a.

Crash 2...
* 1st
Faulting application pythonwin.exe, version 0.0.0.0, faulting module wxmsw24uh.dll, version 0.0.0.0, fault address 0x0012cd2a.
* followed by 
Faulting application pythonwin.exe, version 0.0.0.0, faulting module mfc42.dll, version 6.0.8665.0, fault address 0x00001c65.
* followed by
Faulting application pythonwin.exe, version 0.0.0.0, faulting module mfc42.dll, version 6.0.8665.0, fault address 0x00001c65.

Crash 3...
Faulting application python.exe, version 0.0.0.0, faulting module wxmsw24uh.dll, version 0.0.0.0, fault address 0x0012cd2a

Crash 4...
Faulting application pythonw.exe, version 0.0.0.0, faulting module wxmsw24uh.dll, version 0.0.0.0, fault address 0x0012cd2a.
-------------- next part --------------
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From steve at ninereeds.fsnet.co.uk  Wed Apr  7 17:35:05 2004
From: steve at ninereeds.fsnet.co.uk (Stephen Horne)
Date: Wed, 07 Apr 2004 22:35:05 +0100
Subject: Type checking inside a C extension... doesn't throw exception
	on failure
References: <c4qdfh$2l5b73$1@ID-180326.news.uni-berlin.de>	<40712D9E.3050802@prescod.net>
	<407229F6.6080809@yahoo.com>
	<mailman.392.1081257204.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<c4vtcd$2nifhm$1@ID-180326.news.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <gos87057biabg46cgmdb50pniurfd9aik5@4ax.com>

On Wed, 07 Apr 2004 11:50:05 +0800, Jon Perez <jbperez808 at yahoo.com>
wrote:

>Andrew MacIntyre wrote:
>
>> First rule of using the Python C API: _always_ check the return value of
>> API functions.
>
>This only applies to API functions which return PyObject*, right?

It isn't that simple. There are API functions returning an int, IIRC,
where that int can indicate an error condition.

However, if you can ensure that an error cannot exist OR if you can
arrange things such that the error is naturally handled, THEN you
don't need an explicit check.

For instance, sometimes you can just return the result of an API
function. If the API function returns a valid result, so does your
function. If the API function returns NULL, your function does so too
so the exception is propogated. If you don't need any further
processing or cleanup, why make a fuss?

"_always_ check the return value" is a very good principle, however,
even if not quite literally correct.


-- 
Steve Horne

steve at ninereeds dot fsnet dot co dot uk


From tracer at axiomfire.com  Mon Apr  5 23:55:00 2004
From: tracer at axiomfire.com (Tracy Ruggles)
Date: 5 Apr 2004 20:55:00 -0700
Subject: array of class attributes
References: <3064b51d.0404050810.62617907@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <a9e86706.0404051955.1eb10dcf@posting.google.com>

beliavsky at aol.com wrote in message news:<3064b51d.0404050810.62617907 at posting.google.com>...
> Suppose I define a trivial class composed of x and y coordinates and
> create a Numeric array of instances of that class.
> 
> class xy:
>     def __init__(self,x=0.0,y=0.0):
>         self.x = x
>         self.y = y
>     def __repr__(self):
>         return ("%6.2f" % self.x) + (",%6.2f" % self.y)
> 
> from xy import xy
> from Numeric import zeros,array,PyObject
> n = 3
> aa = array([xy() for i in xrange(n)], PyObject)
> aa[1] = xy(5.0,25.0)
> print aa
> # not legal -- print aa.x
> 
> The output of this program is 
> [  0.00,  0.00    5.00, 25.00    0.00,  0.00 ] . 
> 
> I would like to be able to get an array [0.00 5.00 0.00] corresponding
> to the x component of array aa using the syntax aa.x, but this is not
> correct Python.  Array slices of components would also be nice. I
> could write a function to return such an array, but I doubt that this
> would be efficient in CPU time or memory. I wonder if this capability
> could be added to Numarray, the successor of Numeric. Otherwise, it
> may be better to write numerical codes using parallel arrays (one for
> x, one for y) instead of classes, and the benefits of classes are
> lost.

Here's a way to kinda get what you want:


from numarray import zeros, Float

class space(object):
	def __init__(self, n=3):
		self.points = zeros((n,2), Float)
	def __getitem__(self, i):
		return xy(self.points[i])
	def __setitem__(self, i, (x,y)):
		self.points[i,0] = x
		self.points[i,1] = y
	def __repr__(self):
		return repr(self.points)
		# or, '\n'.join([repr(p) for p in self.points])
	x = property(lambda self: self.points[:,0])
	y = property(lambda self: self.points[:,1])

class xy(object):
	def __init__(self, loc):
		self.loc = loc
	def __repr__(self):
		return '%2.6f, %2.6f' % (self.x, self.y)

	def _get_x(self): return self.loc[0]
	def _set_x(self, value): self.loc[0] = value
	x = property(_get_x, _set_x)

	def _get_y(self): return self.loc[1]
	def _set_y(self): self.loc[1] = value
	y = property(_get_y, _set_y)

n = 3
aa = space(n)
aa[1] = (5.0, 25.0)
print aa
print aa.x

---

Using the array slicing, "array[:,i]" seems to be pretty efficient to
me.  You can also use that syntax for setting values.  The xy class
now is just a convenience wrapper/pointer to its position in space...

One improvement on this might be to allow slicing of space so you can
do something like:

>>> a,b,c = aa[100:103]  # to get 3 discreet points
>>> aa[50:55] = [(1.,2.), (2.,3.), (3.,4.), (4.,5.), (5.,6.)]  # to
set multiple points

--T


From roy at panix.com  Thu Apr 15 12:56:56 2004
From: roy at panix.com (Roy Smith)
Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2004 12:56:56 -0400
Subject: Difficulty Finding Python Developers
References: <65cbc3dd.0404140641.3501fde8@posting.google.com>
	<5d83790c.0404150701.605782a7@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <roy-A17A1C.12565615042004@reader2.panix.com>

python at rcn.com (Raymond Hettinger) wrote:
> With a C++ code, it is critical for your programmers to have years of
> C++ experience.  However, with Python, experienced programmers can get
> up to speed over a weekend.

I would put it slightly differently.

With Python, you can learn a useful subset of the language in a weekend.  
Control flow, statement syntax, and how to define and use functions.  
Assuming you're already familiar with the concepts of classes and 
exceptions (and just need to learn how python implements them), those 
are probably another weekend.

What's really cool is that once you've learned some basic subset of the 
language, it's easy to start using that subset to write useful and 
correct programs.  They may not be as efficient or sophisticated as they 
might be if you understood some more advanced topic, but they'll work.

I think that's one of the things that sets Python apart from C++.  It's 
difficult to know a subset of C++ and do anything useful (unless you 
consider C to be a subset of C++).  Memory management is pervasive.  
Inheritence rules are in your face all the time.  If you declare a 
constructor incorrectly, even if you only have a single constructor, 
you'll never be able to make sense of the compiler errors unless you 
understand polymorphism.  And so on.

A novice Python programmer may be limited in the things they can do, but 
what they can do, they can do well.  A novice C++ programmer is 
dangerous.


From rick.ratzel at magma-da.com  Thu Apr 29 12:31:33 2004
From: rick.ratzel at magma-da.com (Rick Ratzel)
Date: Thu, 29 Apr 2004 11:31:33 -0500
Subject: static keyword
In-Reply-To: <mailman.113.1083254129.25742.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.113.1083254129.25742.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <40912de6$0$46516$39cecf19@news.twtelecom.net>

    Robert beat me to it...I was going to reply with a generator 
example!  Indeed...Nick *clearly* wants a generator.  By far the most 
elegant IMO.

-Rick

Robert Brewer wrote:
> Nick Jacobson wrote:
> 
>>I believe the following "static" command would be useful in Python.
>>
>>def foo():
>>    static i = [10, 11]
>>    static firstcall = True
>>    if firstcall:
>>        print "First pass"
>>        firstcall = False
>>    i[0] += 1
>>    print i[0]
>>foo()
>>foo()
>>
>>
>>This would output:
>>
>>First pass
>>11
>>12
> 
> 
> Bah. All these old fogies with their default arg hacks, when Nick
> *clearly* wants a generator:
> 
> 
>>>>def foo():
> 
> ... 	i = 10
> ... 	print "First pass"
> ... 	while True:
> ... 		i += 1
> ... 		yield i
> ... 		
> 
>>>>g = foo()
>>>>g.next()
> 
> First pass
> 11
> 
>>>>g.next()
> 
> 12
> 
> 
> Robert Brewer
> MIS
> Amor Ministries
> fumanchu at amor.org
> 


From tim.one at comcast.net  Thu Apr 22 17:10:37 2004
From: tim.one at comcast.net (Tim Peters)
Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2004 17:10:37 -0400
Subject: bytecode JUMP_IF_* always followed by POP_TOP?
In-Reply-To: <DE1CF2B4FEC4A342BF62B6B2B334601E562047@opus.amorhq.net>
Message-ID: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCOEDEKHAB.tim.one@comcast.net>

[Robert Brewer]
> Playing around with bytecodes some more:
> ...
> I notice that, whether JUMP_IF_FALSE jumps or not, the next
> instruction it executes is POP_TOP
> ...
> Are there any constructions whereby this does not happen for
> JUMP_IF_FALSE and JUMP_IF_TRUE?

Try

    x and y

and

    x or y

When those jump, they want to retain the tested value, so there's no POP_TOP
at the branch target then.

> If there aren't, is it just explicitness that kept JUMP_IF_* from
> doing the POP on its own, before the jump (which would thereby save
> two instructions)?

Explicitness has little to do with the byte codes.  It would probably be
better if the JUMP_IF_* opcodes consumed the tested value, and codegen for
"and" and "or" (which are rarer) pumped out an extra DUP_TOP.  In all the
years that's been suggested <wink>, though, nobody has cared enough to
bother making the change.




From get at bent.com  Wed Apr  7 05:31:01 2004
From: get at bent.com (nobody)
Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2004 19:31:01 +1000
Subject: Non-math-geek needs help with CRCs (binascii.crc32)
Message-ID: <4073c865$0$27642$61ce578d@news.syd.swiftdsl.com.au>

1) Does anyone know if the CRC32 algorithm in binascii has a name?  There
seem to be a TON of different CRC32 methods; different polynomials,
different byte orders, different seeds, some flip the bits and some XOR the
result with something else.

I've been looking around and a lot of documents (RFCs, etc) refer to ISO3309
and/or ITU-T V.42 (neither of which appear to be available without paid
access), yet are often incompatible with each other.  So unless they're
lying, I assume ISO3309 allows for the above variations, and specifying an
ISO3309 CRC32 doesn't narrow it down any.

2) With Python 2.4 and its signed hex(), what's the 'best'/shortest
(preferably one operation, without any if x < 0 business) way to get an
unsigned 32bit CRC?


Thanks all.





From sholden at holdenweb.com  Thu Apr 29 05:29:00 2004
From: sholden at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Thu, 29 Apr 2004 05:29:00 -0400
Subject: GUI thread and Python IDLE
In-Reply-To: <f3acdcef.0404281348.157acfe7@posting.google.com>
References: <f3acdcef.0404281348.157acfe7@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <YT3kc.6585$f_5.3301@lakeread01>

huwind wrote:

> Hi,
> 
> I got a problem with Python IDLE to run Tkinter application. I use
> thread to start a Tkinter application. It works fine on Linux when I
> invoke the program from command line. But when I try to use IDLE, the
> GUI doesn't show up until I close the IDLE edit window and the Python
> shell window. Does anybody have any idea?

IDLE is itself a Tkinter application, so you are probably experiencing 
conflict between the main loop of the two applications. It's a bit like 
getting into your car to drive from the front seat of your car to the 
back seat ...

This is confirmed by the fact that the program runs fine independently.

regards
  STeve


From simonb at NOTTHISBIT.webone.com.au  Wed Apr 21 05:49:28 2004
From: simonb at NOTTHISBIT.webone.com.au (Simon Burton)
Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2004 10:49:28 +0100
Subject: PDF library?
References: <7xad1631j8.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <pan.2004.04.21.09.49.28.891429@NOTTHISBIT.webone.com.au>

On Tue, 20 Apr 2004 12:14:03 -0700, Paul Rubin wrote:

> I have a big PDF file that I'd like to crunch, i.e. I want to select a
> certain rectangular area from each page and make a new PDF combining the
> selected areas from adjacent pages.  I guess that means I need a Python
> wrapper for GhostScript, or something similar.  Anyone know if that
> exists?  Thanks.


http://www.reportlab.org/

handles pdf files.

Simon.



From chrisperkins37 at hotmail.com  Fri Apr  2 13:40:21 2004
From: chrisperkins37 at hotmail.com (Chris Perkins)
Date: 2 Apr 2004 10:40:21 -0800
Subject: GUI Frameworks in Python?
References: <mailman.102.1080629227.20120.python-list@python.org>	<b5idnd8_MLmQg_Td4p2dnA@powergate.ca>	<cm9ac.8115$lt2.6537@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>	<FJGdnUG9P87T4fTdRVn-uQ@powergate.ca>	<mailman.117.1080656311.20120.python-list@python.org>	<qYCdna1kjd3fBPTdRVn-tw@powergate.ca>
	<mailman.125.1080662935.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<XbGdnfXcwoMmNvTdRVn-tA@powergate.ca>
Message-ID: <45228044.0404021040.3860a027@posting.google.com>

Peter Hansen <peter at engcorp.com> wrote in message news:<XbGdnfXcwoMmNvTdRVn-tA at powergate.ca>...

> Running that repeatedly (sorry, can't reboot conveniently
> right now, so can't get the first time) it takes 0.125 s
> on my machine.
> 

Nobody seems to have mentioned wxPython version numbers in this
discussion.

I just upgraded from 2.4.2.4 to 2.5.1.5, and the start-up time for the
demo app went from about 5 seconds to less than a second.


Chris


From richie at entrian.com  Thu Apr  1 17:22:21 2004
From: richie at entrian.com (Richie Hindle)
Date: Thu, 01 Apr 2004 23:22:21 +0100
Subject: ANNOUNCE: 'goto' for Python
In-Reply-To: <c4i2ae$2qjb$1@agate.berkeley.edu>
References: <mailman.236.1080833648.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<m3u103vce1.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk>
	<c4i2ae$2qjb$1@agate.berkeley.edu>
Message-ID: <fa5p60tpqs8q1qpdn9dci4708n38m1ijok@4ax.com>


[Daniel]
> It doesn't work from the interactive interpreter, though:

I know - I did point that out in my original announcement.  8-)

> in the meantime, here's a patch to at least give an
> error message when one tries to use it interactively:

Thanks very much - I'll incorporate that (or something similar) into the
next release).

-- 
Richie Hindle
richie at entrian.com




From peterm at resmed.com.au  Tue Apr 27 17:06:06 2004
From: peterm at resmed.com.au (Peter Milliken)
Date: Wed, 28 Apr 2004 07:06:06 +1000
Subject: Tkinter vs. wxPython?
References: <408E9DCA.EC753FE6@shaw.ca>
Message-ID: <3Xzjc.459$6A2.9498@nnrp1.ozemail.com.au>

wxPython will not "replace" Tkinter (IMO :-)) if you mean that Tkinter will
become a dead letter. Tkinter was first, has much support through add-ons
such as Pmw and is still the most extensively documented Python GUI. It
builds on the broadbase available through the Tcl/Tk community and provides
many more resources than I could find for wxPython.

I originally wrote a small app using Tkinter, then attempted a rewrite in
wxPython ("lunch time" exercise in both cases so this activity literally
spanned years! :-)) . I don't claim to be a GUI programmer BTW :-)

The main reason I started down the wxPython conversion path was I wanted to
be able print on a Windoze platform and wxPython seemed to offer an
interface that would achieve that. I can't really remember what "went wrong"
but I abandoned the wxPython conversion and went back to using Tkinter -
however, I did keep the print code that I developed and actually communicate
via TCP/IP to that "app" from my Tkinter app with print instructions and the
stream of text to print. I think the sticking point with wxPython was I was
unable to achieve the same key binding flexibility that I had achieved
through Tkinter - I'm sorry, I really can't remember what exactly it was. I
remember some extreme frustration though getting my head around the
different model that wxPython offered :-)

Having said all that, I have a background in Tcl/Tk (probably 7 years ago
now, I wrote a small GUI app in Tcl/Tk and then re-wrote it in Ada/Tk). I
have a GUI book for the Tcl/Tk and then purchased Grayson's Tkinter GUI book
when I moved across to Python - I find reading a much simpler way of
learning :-). I was unable to find an published work on wxPython and whilst
the mailing list is helpful it just wasn't the same as solving a problem by
using one of more books as reference :-) I haven't remained in touch with
the wxPython community, but last I heard, that book on wxPython was still in
the "real soon now" category :-)

I find the Tkinter/Pmw combination very powerful - much of my later
additions to my small GUI app have used Pmw and inheritance extremely
heavily and I am exceptionally pleased at how re-usable some of my GUI
classes worked out - I saved some significent work on at least one GUI page
by small class modification and re-use. Tkinter builds on the efforts of
another large group of individuals - the Tcl/Tk people. Whereas, dare I say
it?, the wxPython effort is based on the efforts of a much smaller group of
individuals, leaving you often to puzzle through wx reference
documentation - and it ain't easy to learn something from reference
documentation! :-)

So my personal recommendation would be to stick with the Tkinter approach,
there is more documentation available (you can even read books based on
using Tk with Tcl that will help you to learn and "solve" those GUI problems
if you can't find a solution from a Tkinter book :-)) and I believe there
are more Python users of Tkinter from which you can request help if you find
a sticking point.

Just my thoughts on the topic :-)

Peter

<SeeBelow at SeeBelow.Nut> wrote in message news:408E9DCA.EC753FE6 at shaw.ca...
> Do many people think that wxPython should replace Tkinter?  Is this
> likely to happen?
>
> I ask because I have just started learning Tkinter, and I wonder if I
> should abandon it in favor of wxPython.
>
> Mitchell Timin
>
> -- 
> "Many are stubborn in pursuit of the path they have chosen, few in
> pursuit of the goal." - Friedrich Nietzsche
>
> http://annevolve.sourceforge.net is what I'm into nowadays.
> Humans may write to me at this address: zenguy at shaw dot ca




From mcfletch at rogers.com  Tue Apr 13 12:08:33 2004
From: mcfletch at rogers.com (Mike C. Fletcher)
Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2004 12:08:33 -0400
Subject: 3D Graphics Engine
In-Reply-To: <8089854e.0404130639.3eb0db62@posting.google.com>
References: <8089854e.0404130639.3eb0db62@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <407C1081.20209@rogers.com>

Fuzzyman wrote:

>I've seen various references to 3D graphics engines - and it's a
>little difficult to know where to look.
>
>I would like (in the long run) to be able to create and explore 3d
>worlds - so texture mapping, light sourcing or shading and mesh shapes
>would be nice - but I *don't* need the quality of a commercial game
>system. Collision detection etc would be nice too.
>  
>
...

>Can anyone reccomend a 3d engine for me to 'muck around with'.
>  
>
Well, probably the most obvious omission from the list is Pivy (Python 
Inventor/Coin bindings), but I'm not sure if Tamer provides Win32 
pre-built binaries.  My own OpenGLContext meets the (rather limited) set 
of requirements (save for collision detection) as well, and does have 
pre-built binaries (but it requires about 10 or 12 separate binaries).  
Both of those are Inventor/VRML-inspired engines which can load (subsets 
of) VRML97 scenegraphs.  OpenGLContext is definitely the less finished 
of the two, as the Coin/Inventor engine has been stable for... well... a 
long time.  Both engines let you write new rendering nodes in Python 
using PyOpenGL.

Blender has a browser plug-in mechanism in which you can run 
animations... don't know if they can use Python on that side, though, 
I'd be surprised if they can.

Using a commercial VRML browser with a COM EAI engine is doable (Cortona 
being the most likely candidate), but probably beyond a 
non-professional's commitment level (we spent months and months of 
development on integrating this solution into a multi-user environment 
in a commercial software house).

If you find more/better options, please update this wiki page:
    http://www.py3d.org/py3d_zwiki/Python3dLinks

Have fun,
Mike

_______________________________________
  Mike C. Fletcher
  Designer, VR Plumber, Coder
  http://members.rogers.com/mcfletch/





From mark at prothon.org  Thu Apr 15 23:48:35 2004
From: mark at prothon.org (Mark Hahn)
Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2004 20:48:35 -0700
Subject: CamelCase versus wide_names (Prothon)
References: <UHxfc.9323$dZ1.3740@fed1read04> <407F3F20.DB8FA765@alcyone.com>
Message-ID: <QHIfc.9902$dZ1.6634@fed1read04>


"Erik Max Francis" <max at alcyone.com> wrote ...

> I'm surprised you're creating your own language and don't have enough
> internal stylistic sense to make this choice yourself.

You must have some pre-conceived image of what kind of person is required to
create a language.  I'd like to know more about this person.

I'm just a geek with a big ego who happens to love to create powerful simple
things.  My stylistic sense is centered around making an interpreter that
runs on a simpler principle than other languages but is more flexible and
more powerful.  I could care less about the appearance of variables or even
the syntax of the language, as long as it works well with my engine.

If I could I'd run pure Python, totally unchanged, on top of my interpreter,
but Python is not compatible with my simple engine.

If you visit the Prothon mailing lists you'll see that I'm letting everyone
else choose the language pretty much, except that I'm constantly trying to
make it simpler.  They even had to argue to get me to use bound methods.  I
had the crazy idea that they weren't needed.

So to make a long story short, I guess the language is being created by the
mailing list, not me.  It will look quite different than the one that I went
public with a few weeks ago when it gets frozen in July.

I do fully realize the need for a BDFL though to keep it from being
"designed by commitee".  Don't tell Guido I said this, but the BDFL doesn't
really have to be a genius.  He just has to keep things moving and have
enough common sense to let the good contributors win out in the arguments.




From jjl at pobox.com  Sat Apr 17 17:22:49 2004
From: jjl at pobox.com (John J. Lee)
Date: 17 Apr 2004 22:22:49 +0100
Subject: Aspect Programming Module
References: <84fc4588.0404140106.3fa0c55@posting.google.com>
	<slrnc7q1ss.1aa.alf@largo.fayauffre.org>
	<cb035744.0404141130.170f51c4@posting.google.com>
	<8ef9bea6.0404142155.90b41ef@posting.google.com>
	<407E394B.2050709@mxm.dk> <slrnc7tp4o.9b5.joe@gate.notcharles.ca>
Message-ID: <87u0ziqoye.fsf@pobox.com>

Joe Mason <joe at notcharles.ca> writes:

> In article <407E394B.2050709 at mxm.dk>, Max M wrote:
> > Hung Jung Lu wrote:
> > 
> >> Python does not even have codeblocks. So how can you say AOP is not
> >> needed for Python programmers?
> > 
> > I am probably rather dense, but I have not seen aspect oriented examples 
> >   that could not have been done with simple mixins.
> > 
> > Isn't it needed in Java because it doesn't have multiple inheritance?
> 
> AOP is a design technique, not just a set of tools.  If it's true that
> you can just use simple mixins in Python to get the same effect as
> ApectJ, then you can say, "AOP is implemented on Python with mixins, but
> Java requires language extensions such as AspectJ."  That doesn't mean
> Python doesn't "need" AOP - nobody really "needs" it, they just find it
> a useful way of approaching problems, and moving to Python doesn't make
> it a less useful approach.  In fact, if it's easier on Python, it's more
> useful.

Joe is surely on the right trail here.

What I wonder, though, is: Is AOP just another set of design patterns
that often work nicely together, or do the ideas involved form a much
more unified whole than that description implies?  And is there a
significant break in thinking involved in moving from standard OOP to
AOP?

I listened to a introductory talk on AOP by Arno Schmidmeier yesterday
at the ACCU conference (Good talk: interesting, and I understood it --
in stark contrast to the stuff I'd read previously about it -- despite
Arno's suffering with a bad case of Powerpoint disease ;-).  I asked
him whether he knew of any usefully mature Python implementations.

Of course, the mostly-tacit assumption behind my question (driven no
doubt by the name's similarity to 'OOP') was that AOP is indeed (at
the least) a blob of concepts and design techniques that.are much less
useful apart than they are together.  More than that, in fact: that
doing AOP requires a significant change in the way you think about
design.  I wonder if that's true, or if it just appears that way to
the users of static languages?  Perhaps AOP is better regarded as
merely a bunch of design patterns that only appear to Java/C++ people
to be a new "paradigm" (in a very loose sense of the word) because of
the implementation techniques that those languages happen to force on
you when you try to implement these patterns.  I'm sure it's not that
simple, but maybe there's some truth in that suspicion.

Whatever the answer, I wish there were a reasonably 'standard' set of
AOP tools available for Python so I could find out by experiment.
Standard in the concepts rather than implementation techniques, that
is.


John


From DoublemPI at netscape.net  Sun Apr  4 09:25:19 2004
From: DoublemPI at netscape.net (DoubleM)
Date: Sun, 04 Apr 2004 13:25:19 GMT
Subject: Difference between default arguments and keyword arguments
In-Reply-To: <UmTbc.9904$NL4.4809@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net>
References: <UmTbc.9904$NL4.4809@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <406FFEAF.3080400@netscape.net>

Edward Diener wrote:
> In the tutorial on functions there are sections on default arguments and
> keyword arguments, yet I don't see the syntactic difference between them.
> For default arguments the tutorial shows:
> 
> def ask_ok(prompt, retries=4, complaint='Yes or no, please!'):
> 
> while for keyword arguments the tutorial shows:
> 
> def parrot(voltage, state='a stiff', action='voom', type='Norwegian Blue'):
> 
> The syntax 'keyword = value' is used for both as far as I can see. How does
> one distinguish between them or are they both part of the same combined
> concept, which is: if one calls the function with less than the required
> number of arguments but does specify keyword values, those values are used,
> else the defaults are supplied. Or is there really a syntactic difference
> between default arguments and keyword arguments which I have missed above ?
> 
> 
All arguments are keyword arguments.  They may or may not have a default 
value.  In your example, voltage is a keyword argument, but it has no 
default.

Consider the following:
 >>> def fn(a,b):
	print 'a = ',a
	print 'b = ',b

	
 >>> fn(b=1,a=2)
a =  2
b =  1
 >>> fn(1,2)
a =  1
b =  2
 >>>
Hope this helps,
Mike


From noemail at noemail4u.com  Thu Apr  8 07:28:48 2004
From: noemail at noemail4u.com (Dang Griffith)
Date: Thu, 08 Apr 2004 11:28:48 GMT
Subject: Are line continuations needed?
References: <mailman.418.1081348606.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<1078dq6i93pc12d@news.supernews.com>
	<1078skqn9hgdd19@corp.supernews.com>
	<1079015hfg56i28@news.supernews.com>
	<Xns94C5601A46236duncanrcpcouk@127.0.0.1>
Message-ID: <4596f01b3d76279a6c75379203735ded@news.teranews.com>

On 8 Apr 2004 08:32:02 GMT, Duncan Booth <me at privacy.net> wrote:

...
>.... Consider 
>this (none of the lines are indented):
>
>mystring = """\
>+---------------+
>|    '"         |
>+---------------+
>"""
>
>Without a line continuation there simply isn't any way to write this string 
>and still have the box characters line up neatly.

Ok, I'll bite...

mystring = (
"""+---------------+\n"""
"""|    '"         |\n"""
"""+---------------+"""
)

    --dang
p.s.
I'm not saying it's as pretty, just that there simply is a way to
write the string and still have the box characters line up neatly,
and it's not too heinous.


From roy at panix.com  Tue Apr 27 15:02:28 2004
From: roy at panix.com (Roy Smith)
Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2004 15:02:28 -0400
Subject: Is Perl *that* good?
References: <c6ich0$c5mee$1@ID-205437.news.uni-berlin.de>
	<iL3jc.232$Yc.2330@news4.e.nsc.no>
	<108q51j4dscn7dc@corp.supernews.com>
	<knbjc.267$id.3998@news2.e.nsc.no>
	<pan.2004.04.26.20.50.19.843510@hotmail.com>
	<87fzaqmm8t.fsf@strauser.com>
	<38ec68a6.0404262308.50029919@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.49.1083084698.25742.python-list@python.org>
	<pan.2004.04.27.18.15.56.169064@hotmail.com>
	<noydnQuaxutgNxPdRVn-hw@powergate.ca>
Message-ID: <roy-55BC22.15022827042004@reader2.panix.com>

In article <noydnQuaxutgNxPdRVn-hw at powergate.ca>,
 Peter Hansen <peter at engcorp.com> wrote:

> Wouldn't that be a fairly trivial class to write, and use
> in your own code?

It would be.  And everybody would invent their own flavor.  Putting it 
into the core means everybody does it the same way, so everybody's code 
is easier to understand and maintain.


From greg at cosc.canterbury.ac.nz  Tue Apr  6 00:05:30 2004
From: greg at cosc.canterbury.ac.nz (Greg Ewing)
Date: Tue, 06 Apr 2004 16:05:30 +1200
Subject: Does Python compete with Java?
In-Reply-To: <8b336527.0404051337.51bb4a1b@posting.google.com>
References: <8b336527.0404051337.51bb4a1b@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <c4taac$2lg0bc$1@ID-169208.news.uni-berlin.de>

kk wrote:
> I'd like to know if you guys think Python really has a chance to
> compete with Java, .NET, and any other commercially backed language.

It depends on what you mean by "compete".

Python is never going to have the same combination of hype
and money behind it as those other languages you mention.

But is that a bad thing or a good thing?

I think it's a *good* thing. Python is succeeding very well
by just existing and actually being well designed and useful,
as opposed to having a large company's marketing machine trying
to tell everyone that it is.

It sells itself to those who are willing to look. It doesn't
need or want any hype.

--
Greg Ewing, Computer Science Dept,
University of Canterbury,
Christchurch, New Zealand
http://www.cosc.canterbury.ac.nz/~greg



From NAIGIMSESRIMAIL at gims.com  Thu Apr  1 07:29:30 2004
From: NAIGIMSESRIMAIL at gims.com (GroupShield for Exchange (ESRIMAIL))
Date: Thu, 1 Apr 2004 14:29:30 +0200 
Subject: ALERT -  GroupShield ticket number OB73_1080822563_ESRIMAIL_3 was
	generated
Message-ID: <B06B8FEF47ACD7119E720040F428459102124D1B@ESRIMAIL>

Action Taken:
The message was blocked because of its subject.

To:
python-list at python.org <python-list at python.org>

From:
Peter Otten <__peter__ at web.de>

Sent:
-158166144,29628388

Subject:
Re: test for nan

Attachment Details:-

Attachment Name: N/A
File: Infected.msg
Infected? No
Repaired? No
Blocked? Yes
Deleted? No
Virus Name: 



	
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From danny_shevitz at yahoo.com  Wed Apr 21 17:57:17 2004
From: danny_shevitz at yahoo.com (danny)
Date: 21 Apr 2004 14:57:17 -0700
Subject: problem pickling objects created with the type function
Message-ID: <85bc2819.0404211357.6ec10ec7@posting.google.com>

Howdy, 

I've run into a problem pickling objects created with a type
statement. Here's the code:

*********************************************
import pickle

class foo(object):
	def __init__(self):
		self.wombat = []
		
	def setWombat(self):
		self.wombat = [1]

# pickle a foo instance		
x = foo()
print pickle.dumps(x) # works

# pickle a foobar instance
childType = type('foobar',(foo,),{'slor':7})
y = childType()
print pickle.dumps(y) # raises an exception
*********************************************

I'm pretty sure the failure is because 'foobar' is never in the global
namespace. If I change the code to foobar = type('foobar',...  then
the code works, but I dont' want to do this because I create the class
name in a factory and it is mangled to prevent different invocations
of the factory from having the same class name.

Does anyone know how to get around this, or how to get 'foobar' =
childType into the global namespace?

thanks,
Danny


From greg at cosc.canterbury.ac.nz  Mon Apr  5 23:56:52 2004
From: greg at cosc.canterbury.ac.nz (Greg Ewing)
Date: Tue, 06 Apr 2004 15:56:52 +1200
Subject: slightly OT: BUT NEEDs to be said
In-Reply-To: <8b42d1998c978c8c1cddf15c52a1c57b@dizum.com>
References: <lvOdnRJzZ9244ezdRVn-uQ@powergate.ca>
	<8b42d1998c978c8c1cddf15c52a1c57b@dizum.com>
Message-ID: <c4t9qn$2nb6vl$1@ID-169208.news.uni-berlin.de>

Nomen Nescio wrote:
> much criticism. If someone came up with a language/interpreter based on their
> favourite TV show like I dunno 'Friends' or whatever it would be seen as ridiculous.

Aha! I've been trying to decide what to name the next language
I invent, and now I know. It will be called:

    Buffy

Greg Ewing, Computer Science Dept,
University of Canterbury,
Christchurch, New Zealand
http://www.cosc.canterbury.ac.nz/~greg



From len-1 at telus.net  Mon Apr  5 02:27:06 2004
From: len-1 at telus.net (Lenard Lindstrom)
Date: Mon, 05 Apr 2004 06:27:06 GMT
Subject: Using function parameters to determine method kind
Message-ID: <4qrzym6e.fsf@telus.net>

I was wondering if anyone has suggested having Python determine
a method's kind from its first parameter. 'self' is a de facto
reserved word; 'cls' is a good indicator of a class method
( __new__ is a special case ). The closest to this I could find
was the 2002-12-04 posting 'metaclasses and static methods'
by Michele Simionato. The posting's example metaclass uses the
method's name. I present my own example of automatic method
kind declaration. Being a module with some support functions
and a test case it is too large to post so is available online at:

   http://www3.telus.net/len_l/Python_Explorations.html

as dparams.py .

# dparams.py example
from dparams import Object
class C(Object):
    def __init__(self, x): # instance method
        self.x = x
    def MyClass(cls): # class method
        print cls
    def MyStatic(a): # static method
        print a
    def MyStatic2(self):
        print self
    MyStatic2 = staticmethod(MyStatic2) # still works


Lenard Lindstrom
<len-l at telus.net>


From lucabaralis at tiscalinet.it  Tue Apr 20 03:36:27 2004
From: lucabaralis at tiscalinet.it (LB)
Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 09:36:27 +0200
Subject: Dollar sign ($) on foriegn keyboards? (prothon)
References: <mk3hc.13895$dZ1.10823@fed1read04>
Message-ID: <c62jtr$21r$1@newsread.albacom.net>


"
> Can people from outside the U.S. tell me if typing the dollar sign often
> would be a problem in writing code?  Is it available and somewhat easy to
> type on international keyboards?
>
$ is a shift-key on italian standard keyboard.

LB




From tjreedy at udel.edu  Fri Apr 16 11:14:47 2004
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2004 11:14:47 -0400
Subject: CamelCase versus wide_names (Prothon)
References: <UHxfc.9323$dZ1.3740@fed1read04>
	<87hdvl2dny.fsf@blakie.riol><c5mr6h$jkn$1@atlantis.news.tpi.pl>
	<87d6692ar8.fsf@blakie.riol><mailman.674.1082103786.20120.python-list@python.org><FCNfc.25592$zf6.94057@news4.e.nsc.no>
	<87wu4gjkwb.fsf@blakie.riol>
Message-ID: <c5ot92$htj$1@sea.gmane.org>


"Wilk" <wilkSPAM at OUTflibuste.net> wrote in message
news:87wu4gjkwb.fsf at blakie.riol...
> Why not - instead of _ ?

I believe some Lisps do use -.  If so, they can do so because of the prefix
and space-separator syntax:

(- a-c c) is unambiguously a-c - c

Terry J. Reedy






From Markus.Zimmermann at hz-bau.de  Sat Apr  3 14:07:34 2004
From: Markus.Zimmermann at hz-bau.de (Markus Zimmermann)
Date: Sat, 03 Apr 2004 21:07:34 +0200
Subject: PyQt & PyKDE current snapshot
Message-ID: <9sb3k1-s7s.ln1@mcgonnagal.hogwarts.net>

Hi,
does anybody of you know, where to get a current snapshot of PyQt and
PyKDE ?
Thanx, Markus



From jepler at unpythonic.net  Thu Apr  8 09:53:16 2004
From: jepler at unpythonic.net (Jeff Epler)
Date: Thu, 8 Apr 2004 08:53:16 -0500
Subject: if 'hallo' in ['hallooo','halloooooooo'] problem
In-Reply-To: <c53k55$mm2$1@news.mch.sbs.de>
References: <c53k55$mm2$1@news.mch.sbs.de>
Message-ID: <20040408135316.GJ6139@unpythonic.net>

Does it really work the way you describe?

2.2:
>>> 'xy' in ['xyz']
0
>>> 'xy' in ['xy', 'xyz']
1

2.3:
>>> 'xy' in ['xyz']
False
>>> 'xy' in ['xy', 'xyz']
True

2.4 CVS:
>>> 'xy' in ['xyz']
False
>>> 'xy' in ['xy', 'xyz']
True

The meaning that has changed is "s1 in s2" when s1 is a string not of
length 1, and s2 is a string.

2.2:
>>> 'xy' in 'xyz'
TypeError: 'in <string>' requires character as left operand

2.3:
>>> 'xy' in 'xyz'
True

2.4 CVS:
>>> 'xy' in 'xyz'
True

Jeff



From skip at pobox.com  Mon Apr  5 17:14:57 2004
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Mon, 5 Apr 2004 16:14:57 -0500
Subject: CSV ignores lineterminator
In-Reply-To: <c4shfc$s6e$1@sea.gmane.org>
References: <c4s8q9$5vc$1@sea.gmane.org>
	<16497.47126.723619.586429@montanaro.dyndns.org>
	<c4shfc$s6e$1@sea.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <16497.52305.246261.519498@montanaro.dyndns.org>


    Jeffrey> Yes, I expect your example to work because each entry in the
    Jeffrey> list defines a "line" regardless of csv:
    ...
    Jeffrey> In my example, the first "line" of the list is
    Jeffrey> 'word1\tword2;word3\tword4'.  What I expect to happen is that
    Jeffrey> the list passes the entire line to csv.reader(), which then
    Jeffrey> splits off 'word1\tword2' as the first line by virtue of the
    Jeffrey> presence of the lineterminator ';' and then continues to scan
    Jeffrey> what remains.  

I haven't the time to think deep thoughts about this problem at the moment.
You might want to post to the csv mailing list (csv at mail.mojam.com) and see
if one of the other csv folks can provide a more coherent/accurate answer.

Skip



From Andreas.Ames at tenovis.com  Fri Apr 23 05:00:06 2004
From: Andreas.Ames at tenovis.com (Ames Andreas (MPA/DF))
Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2004 11:00:06 +0200
Subject: [Q] C-api: string|int|... construction
Message-ID: <788E231C269961418F38D3E360D165259B408C@tndefr-ws00021.tenovis.corp.lan>

Hi all,

is it possible (within a C extension) to create a python string (or
integer or other type) from an existing C string *without* copying the
string?


TIA,

andreas




From peter.maas at mplusr.de  Wed Apr 14 09:16:42 2004
From: peter.maas at mplusr.de (Peter Maas)
Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2004 15:16:42 +0200
Subject: spherical coordinates
In-Reply-To: <dX8fc.587$lp3.280@fe2.texas.rr.com>
References: <20040414111334.34b5d225@pistache.sara.nl>
	<c5j28h$j3m$1@swifty.westend.com>
	<7x1xmqua94.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<dX8fc.587$lp3.280@fe2.texas.rr.com>
Message-ID: <c5jdgc$e5$1@swifty.westend.com>

Paul McGuire wrote:
>>Peter Maas <peter.maas at mplusr.de> writes:
>>
>>>r = sqrt(x**2 + y**2)
>>>phi = atan(y/x)
>>
>>Better use phi=atan2(y,x) in case x=0.  Similarly for the other atan
> 
> calls.
> 
> These are formulas for cylindrical coordinates.

r and phi are 2D spherical coordinates. You have to add a 3rd coordinate
(usually called z) to get cylindrical coordinates.

> The OP was asking for
> spherical coordinates rho, theta, and phi, where:

The OP was asking for spherical coordinates without mentioning
variables or dimensions. I posted the raw 2D and 3D formulas without
bothering about error handling or other implementation issues.

Mit freundlichen Gruessen,

Peter Maas

-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Peter Maas, M+R Infosysteme, D-52070 Aachen, Hubert-Wienen-Str. 24
Tel +49-241-93878-0 Fax +49-241-93878-20 eMail peter.maas at mplusr.de
-------------------------------------------------------------------


From andrew-pythonlist at puzzling.org  Fri Apr 23 01:26:29 2004
From: andrew-pythonlist at puzzling.org (Andrew Bennetts)
Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2004 15:26:29 +1000
Subject: Deleting objects - my earler post got garbled
In-Reply-To: <38ec68a6.0404222110.43416e1d@posting.google.com>
References: <b4a8ffb6.0404221209.d612c6@posting.google.com>
	<40883067.4000702@v.loewis.de>
	<38ec68a6.0404222110.43416e1d@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <20040423052629.GB4102@frobozz>

On Thu, Apr 22, 2004 at 10:10:14PM -0700, Asun Friere wrote:
> "Martin v. L?wis" <martin at v.loewis.de> wrote in message news:<40883067.4000702 at v.loewis.de>...
> 
> > There is no way to explicitly delete an object in Python.
> 
> So what does "del <object>" actually do then?

As http://docs.python.org/ref/del.html says:

    ...

    Deletion of a name removes the binding of that name from the local or
    global namespace, depending on whether the name occurs in a global
    statement in the same code block. If the name is unbound, a NameError
    exception will be raised.

    It is illegal to delete a name from the local namespace if it occurs as
    a free variable in a nested block.

    Deletion of attribute references, subscriptions and slicings is passed
    to the primary object involved; deletion of a slicing is in general
    equivalent to assignment of an empty slice of the right type (but even
    this is determined by the sliced object).

Essentially, the del statement deletes a reference to an object.  There may
be other references to the object, and even if there aren't the garbage
collector might not collect the object immediately, if at all.

-Andrew.




From jjl at pobox.com  Thu Apr 29 16:52:11 2004
From: jjl at pobox.com (John J. Lee)
Date: 29 Apr 2004 21:52:11 +0100
Subject: urllib2 request blocks
References: <408ddbdd$0$16600$5a62ac22@freenews.iinet.net.au>
Message-ID: <87brla5wxw.fsf@pobox.com>

Derek Fountain <devnull at example.com> writes:

> I just tried this:
> 
> >>> import urllib2
> >>> urllib2.urlopen( "https://passenger.ssc.com/~dmarti/contrib-faq/" )
> 
> It sits forever. Loading that URL in a normal browser gets me a popup asking
> about server certificate authenticity, which presumably is what urllib2 is
> blocking at.

That script doesn't hang for me, using Python 2.3.  I get a 200
response, with content the same as I see in Mozilla (Linux journal
author's guide and FAQ).  The socket module does not verify the
authenticity of servers, so neither does urllib or urllib2.


> How can I prepare my code for this eventuality and ensure it doesn't block?

Depends on why it's blocking.

sockets in 2.3 now support a timeout (that parameter is not fed
through to the httplib, urllib or urllib2 public interfaces, but you
can still set the default socket timeout in your application code).
If it's DNS that blocking, though, that won't help you.  I think
proxies like squid do DNS lookups in a separate process (I guess you
can use threads too).

Alternatively, you can start messing with things like asyncore or
Twisted, or use threads (I don't recommend the latter :-/).


John


From oest at soetu.eu  Mon Apr  5 21:07:14 2004
From: oest at soetu.eu (Carlo v. Dango)
Date: Tue, 06 Apr 2004 03:07:14 +0200
Subject: run-time construction of methods
Message-ID: <opr50f2cg7myya52@news.kadnet.dom>

Hello all.

I am in the need of wrapping certain objects at run-time. My initial 
approach was:

import inspect, new
def make_wrapper(obj, methodName):
     cls = obj.__class__
     wrapmth = getattr(obj, methodName)
     print "************ ", methodName
     def wrapper(self, *args, **kwargs):
         print "**before ", methodName
         return wrapmth(*args, **kwargs)
     return wrapper

class Person(object):
     def __init__(self, age):
         super(Person, self).__init__()
         self.age = age

     def getAge(self):
         return self.age

     def setAge(self, newage):
         """sets the age of the person"""
         self.age = newage

p = Person(33)
setattr(p, "setAge", new.instancemethod(make_wrapper(p,"setAge"), p, 
p.__class__))
p.setAge(22)
print "age is ", p.getAge()



However, reflectional information is gone, such as the __doc__ string, and 
in an interactive environment, when typing a method call of setAge() the 
arguments are specified as "(..., ***)" rather than "(newage)"

I have thus attempted to replace the make_wrapper function with a version 
where the inner function "wrapper" is a string which gets translated into 
a function with an identical signature as the method to wrap.. my closest 
attempt to a real solution is


def make_wrapper(obj, methodName):
     cls = obj.__class__
     wrapmth = getattr(obj, methodName)
     print "************ ", methodName
     wrapperstr = """def wrapper(self, *args, **kwargs):
         print "**before ", methodName
         return wrapmth(*args, **kwargs)"""
     exec(wrapperstr, globals(), locals())
     return wrapper

but I get the error

NameError: global name 'methodName' is not defined

which I don't know how to deal with... inspecting the locals() a 
'methodName' is defined.. Note that my above 'solution' is far from the 
product I want, I just figured I needed to get this to work, before 
fidling with the signature stuff...


does anyone have an idea on how to approach this?


-Carlo
-- 
Using M2, Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/m2/


From daniel.dittmar at sap.com  Mon Apr  5 05:30:19 2004
From: daniel.dittmar at sap.com (Daniel Dittmar)
Date: Mon, 5 Apr 2004 11:30:19 +0200
Subject: Can someone give me a short explanation?
References: <mailman.353.1081154081.20120.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <c4r8vb$rrj$1@news1.wdf.sap-ag.de>

Senthoorkumaran Punniamoorthy wrote:
> I found this code in the book text processing with Python. But having
> little difficulty understanding how exactly it works and what should
> be passed as argument? Can someone decode this for me please?
>
> apply_each = lambda fns, args=[]: map(apply, fns, [args]*len(fns))

def apply_each (fns, args = []):
    return map (apply, fns, [args]*len(fns))

map(...)
    map(function, sequence[, sequence, ...]) -> list

    Return a list of the results of applying the function to the items of
    the argument sequence(s).  If more than one sequence is given, the
    function is called with an argument list consisting of the corresponding
    item of each sequence, substituting None for missing values when not all
    sequences have the same length.  If the function is None, return a list
of
    the items of the sequence (or a list of tuples if more than one
sequence).

so apply_each ([func1, func2, func3], [arg1, arg2])
is the same as
[func1 (arg1, arg2), func2 (arg1, arg2), func3 (arg1, arg)]

or using list comprehension
[func (arg1, arg2) for func in [func1, func2, func3])

Daniel





From peter at engcorp.com  Mon Apr 12 18:50:55 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2004 18:50:55 -0400
Subject: Random Numbers and a thought
In-Reply-To: <107m6f0t4i0gnff@corp.supernews.com>
References: <107m6f0t4i0gnff@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <ctednRIVbfzSgObdRVn-gQ@powergate.ca>

A Evans wrote:

> I am looking at building a program in python that takes  computer generated
> random sets of numbers and tries to solve the pattern I would like it to
> extend into complex math as many random numbers as possible

What "pattern" are you talking about?


From snusnu at tiscali.co.uk  Fri Apr 23 22:02:38 2004
From: snusnu at tiscali.co.uk (SnuSnu)
Date: Sat, 24 Apr 2004 03:02:38 +0100
Subject: deleting items within a for loop - mutable indices
Message-ID: <4089cb21$1_2@mk-nntp-2.news.uk.tiscali.com>

Okay - here's a (probably) really easy question:

I can't do the following, so what's the best way to handle this
case of wanting to delete within a loop?

x = [0,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8]
deletion_list = [2,7,8]

for i in deletion_list:
  del x[i]

This obviously doesn't work because the list keeps changing
each time I delete something, so the indices are no longer valid
after the first delete (so I get an IndexError on teh last delete).

My hack is to do this first (which makes sure that the higher indices 
are deleted first), but this is not very elegant or quick:

deletion_list.sort()
deletion_list.reverse()
# BTW: It's a shame I can't do deletion_list.sort().reverse()

Is there a simple solution?

(It would be nice to do something like
  del x[2,7,8]           # or..
  del [*deletion_list]
)

Thanks.



From usenet_spam at janc.invalid  Sun Apr 18 19:04:54 2004
From: usenet_spam at janc.invalid (JanC)
Date: Sun, 18 Apr 2004 23:04:54 GMT
Subject: Pygame
References: <c5jdv2$s4$1@orkan.itea.ntnu.no>
	<xZydnfgqeaiK3ODdRVn-tw@powergate.ca>
	<c5jgvh$2m5$1@orkan.itea.ntnu.no>
	<mailman.620.1081958099.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<gandreas-33F0F9.12165314042004@news.mpls.visi.com>
	<c5jt79$8m6$1@orkan.itea.ntnu.no>
	<z4GdnXzhXbzZGuDdRVn-vg@powergate.ca>
	<pan.2004.04.18.22.02.19.625997@stud.ntnu.no>
Message-ID: <Xns94D0B00218E1JanC@213.119.4.35>

Alexander R?dseth <alexanro at stud.ntnu.no> schreef:

>> I ask again what you think should be the criteria for including
>> something in the standard distribution.
> 
> I would say that Python should include anything that involves
> hardware access on a relatively low level, and have the rest as
> external modules and packages.
> 
> Access to fullscreen 2d-graphics, and possibly 3d-graphics as well
> are just as "natural" as access to network cards, harddrives or any other
> piece of hardware. I just don't see the logic in obmitting it.

One thing you could do (possibly together with a group of other graphics 
programmers), is to create a Python distribution which includes pyGame & 
other graphics-related modules.

Look at Enthought's Python distro for an example:
<http://www.enthought.com/python/>
(Maybe they'll add pyGame if you ask.)

-- 
JanC

"Be strict when sending and tolerant when receiving."
RFC 1958 - Architectural Principles of the Internet - section 3.9


From rjgruet at yahoo.com  Sat Apr 10 20:05:19 2004
From: rjgruet at yahoo.com (Richard Gruet)
Date: Sun, 11 Apr 2004 02:05:19 +0200
Subject: new-style class instance check (bis)
Message-ID: <c5a24n$gei$1@apollon.grec.isp.9tel.net>

(just a reformulation of my previous post)

How to determine that an object o is for sure an instance of a new-style
class, without knowing of which specific class ?
That is, if I define a function:

def isNewStyleClassInstance(o):
    pass    ## to be completed

.. I want to pass the following test:

class OldStyle: pass
class NewStyle(object): pass

assert not isNewStyleClassInstance(OldStyle()) # InstanceType
assert isNewStyleClassInstance(NewStyle())
assert not isNewStyleClassInstance('hi')    # "instance" of type str

# and naturally for all other types of o the function should also return
False, e.g.

def foo(): pass
assert not isNewStyleClassInstance(foo) # FunctionType
assert not isNewStyleClassInstance(OldStyle) # ClassType
# etc...


Richard





From mark at prothon.org  Sat Apr  3 01:23:58 2004
From: mark at prothon.org (Mark Hahn)
Date: Fri, 2 Apr 2004 22:23:58 -0800
Subject: Indent testers needed (Prothon)
References: <Unqbc.131025$cx5.57643@fed1read04>
	<b5rbc.132699$cx5.63133@fed1read04>
	<Xns94C0217D6BF1rzed@63.223.5.95>
Message-ID: <2Msbc.136673$cx5.2385@fed1read04>

"rzed" <rzantow at ntelos.net> wrote

> /* loop 2 */
> ix = 2
> for
>   item
>     in
>       blist
>         :
>           alist[ix] =
>                alist[
>           ix
>           ]

Do you think this is a good thing or a bad thing?  You could do the same
thing or worse in C or Java.




From newsgroups at jhrothjr.com  Wed Apr 14 20:11:52 2004
From: newsgroups at jhrothjr.com (John Roth)
Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2004 20:11:52 -0400
Subject: Pygame
References: <c5jdv2$s4$1@orkan.itea.ntnu.no>
	<107qkrbhnjpmh9b@news.supernews.com>
	<c5jpkb$6th$1@orkan.itea.ntnu.no>
Message-ID: <107rksn9nosm78a@news.supernews.com>


"Alexander R?dseth" <alexanro at stud.ntnu.no> wrote in message
news:c5jpkb$6th$1 at orkan.itea.ntnu.no...
> > Why should it be?
>
> Because it's inconsistent that Python includes many platform-specific and
> hardware-specific modules,
> and even gui-modules like Tkinter, but, afaik, no way at all to create
> fullscreen and/or hw-accelerated graphics.
>
>
> > In looking thorough the libarary, I find that
> > everything there is a developer tool of some
> > sort. The few executables are things like
> > unittest which are standard parts of the
> > developer's tool chain.
>
> I agree pretty much with Peter's reply.
> How exactly did you "look through the library"?
> Looking at http://docs.python.org/modindex.html, I find modules for sound,
> xml, graphics, mail, a web-server and even the deprecated and insecure
> "Enigma-like encryption and decryption". :-)
>
> Python is supposed to be "batteries included", but still hasn't got native
> support for fullscreen graphics.
>
> Granted, Pygame might not be the optimal solution, due to licensing issues
> (or whatever other reason might appeal to you), but IMHO, there should be
a
> module included that allowed for similar functionality.

If you look at PyGame, you'll find that it's based on SDL, which seems
to be a very good library for doing graphics. That, in turn, is based on
OpenGL.

It also (optionally) uses Numeric, which hasn't been included with Python
because the developers don't want to wait for major Python updates.
>
> - Alexander
>
>




From bignose-hates-spam at and-benfinney-does-too.id.au  Thu Apr  1 19:04:50 2004
From: bignose-hates-spam at and-benfinney-does-too.id.au (Ben Finney)
Date: 2 Apr 2004 09:54:50 +0950
Subject: Method for providing a trail period on a program
References: <L8idnY07QbRfNPHdRVn-hw@comcast.com>
Message-ID: <slrnc6pcmh.1f2.bignose-hates-spam@rose.localdomain.fake>

On Thu, 1 Apr 2004 17:46:12 -0600, Larry Bates wrote:
> I'm searching for a good way to provide a "trail period" (something
> like 90 days) for a commercial application that I'm writing.  I'd like
> something that can easily stop working 90 days after installation.

Why do you want to break your user's programs to gain money?  Will they
not pay for your work without their programs breaking?  What does that
say about the value of your work?

-- 
 \            "Conscience is the inner voice that warns us somebody is |
  `\                                    looking."  -- Henry L. Mencken |
_o__)                                                                  |
Ben Finney <http://bignose.squidly.org/>


From Bill.Scherer at VerizonWireless.com  Tue Apr 20 11:34:30 2004
From: Bill.Scherer at VerizonWireless.com (Bill Scherer)
Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 11:34:30 -0400
Subject: Easily convert unicode tuple to python string tuple???
Message-ID: <40854306.7030400@VerizonWireless.com>

Michal Mikolajczyk wrote:

> Is there a quick way to convert a unicode tuple to a tuple containing 
> python strings?
>
> (u'USER', u'NODE', u'HASH', u'IDNBR')
>
> to this:
>
> ('USER', 'NODE', 'HASH', 'IDNBR') 

 >>> a = (u'USER', u'NODE', u'HASH', u'IDNBR')
 >>> tuple([e.encode() for e in a])
('USER', 'NODE', 'HASH', 'IDNBR')

> I need to be able to do this for a lot of tuples, not just one. 


for aTuple in myTuples:
    newTuple = tuple([e.encode() for e in aTuple])
    ...


You may need to alter your encoding, depending on your environment.

> Thanks,
> Michael 


HTH,

Bill




From fredrik at pythonware.com  Wed Apr 21 12:11:49 2004
From: fredrik at pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2004 18:11:49 +0200
Subject: This is very simple question
References: <b0457a31.0404210754.2a34b6be@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <c666hp$3e3$1@sea.gmane.org>

but a lousy subject.

"Eric" <ekoome at yahoo.com> wrote;

> I would want to obtain a list of factors (multiples of 2) given a
> prime number in python.
>
> For example 13=[8,4,1], 5=[4,1], 7=[4,2,1], 15=[8,4,2,1]

>>> 8*4*1
32

> I would appreciate a fuction which would do this.

def func(x): return [2**i for i in range(3,0,-1) if x & 2**i]

</F>






From Kyler at news.Lairds.org  Fri Apr 16 00:08:09 2004
From: Kyler at news.Lairds.org (Kyler Laird)
Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2004 04:08:09 GMT
Subject: Does Python compete with Java?
References: <8b336527.0404051337.51bb4a1b@posting.google.com>
	<c4taac$2lg0bc$1@ID-169208.news.uni-berlin.de>
	<e838aa6e.0404071426.7192e8e4@posting.google.com>
	<slrnc79idf.hij.ramen@lackingtalent.com>
	<e838aa6e.0404130748.1d8e1ddf@posting.google.com>
	<407deb56$1@news.unimelb.edu.au>
	<KbydnZd2qY7uyuPdRVn-uw@powergate.ca>
	<407f1273$1@news.unimelb.edu.au>
Message-ID: <gv04l1-5ro.ln1@snout.lairds.org>

I've only caught bits of this thread and I don't really want to address
any one post in particular but I thought a timely example is in order.

I have been needing to get more control over bookmarks in the PDF files
I concatenate.  I've tried a bunch of tools but my current favorite is
iText.
	http://itext.sourceforge.net/
It's written in Java and I thought I could make some simple mods to the
example concatenation program with my *very* rusty Java skills.  Nope.
I spent an afternoon trying to figure out how to do it without any luck.
I gave up.

After I regained some strength, I decided to throw Jython at it.  I had
not used Jython for anything more than to verify that it really worked.
Within minutes I was interactively poking my way through iText libraries
with Jython, discovering what I could do.  My enhancement was fairly
easy to implement and it reminded me how much less effort it takes to
accomplish things in Python than in Java.

Bottom line...I don't give a hoot about a language "competition."  I'm
going to keep using Python because it allows me to accomplish Great
Things.  It even lets me do those where C or Java are "required."  I
like it.

--kyler


From kckscott at yahoo.com  Thu Apr 22 15:00:08 2004
From: kckscott at yahoo.com (Keana)
Date: 22 Apr 2004 12:00:08 -0700
Subject: DCOracle2 and long raw datatype
Message-ID: <7c12e83f.0404221100.f24806b@posting.google.com>

Hi,

I am trying to retrieve data from an Oracle DB table.  One of the
columns is defined as 'Long Raw' data type and contains multi-line
string data (with newlines).  My query returns 'None' for this column
although there is data in the rows I am retrieving.

Can someone tell me how to get around this problem?  I am using
DCOracle2 v2.1.2 and Oracle 9i and Python 2.2.2.


Thanks in advance,

Keana


From budr at local.host  Fri Apr  2 16:58:41 2004
From: budr at local.host (Bud Rogers)
Date: Fri, 02 Apr 2004 15:58:41 -0600
Subject: emergent/swarm/evolutionary systems etc
References: <c4aeq8$92a$1@hercules.btinternet.com><c4btjr$8il$1@titan.btinternet.com><c4ccs2$l9j$1@news.service.uci.edu><c4hjp4$dg6$1@sparta.btinternet.com><c4ibr0$ngm$1@news.service.uci.edu>
	<c4jehj$6eh$1@titan.btinternet.com><c4jjad$ce4$1@titan.btinternet.com>
	<mailman.268.1080907791.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<c4k3tj$6dd$1@titan.btinternet.com>
	<4Jgbc.4588$zf6.61662@news4.e.nsc.no>
Message-ID: <i941k1-6bu.ln1@twocups.netride.net>

Leif B. Kristensen wrote:

> I know the feeling. For me too, the best way to learn a new language
> is to wallow in working examples.

Same here.  That's how I learned Perl.  I picked up the basics from
Learning Perl, but no clear sense of how to use it for my purposes. 
Then I picked up Programming Perl and got thoroughly intimidated.  Then
I found the Perl Cookbook and fairly quickly learned what I needed to
know by scarfing the example code and modifying it for my purposes.

Now I find I'm following almost exactly the same trajectory with Python. 
I have Learning Python and Programming Python, and just recently got a
copy of the Python Cookbook.  Yeah, this is gonna work out fine.



From matthewleslie at hotmail.com  Tue Apr 27 15:30:52 2004
From: matthewleslie at hotmail.com (Matt Leslie)
Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2004 14:30:52 -0500
Subject: Intercepting method calls
In-Reply-To: <c6m8eg$so$01$1@news.t-online.com>
References: <c6m0nv$3ie$1@info4.fnal.gov> <c6m8eg$so$01$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <408EB4EC.9010809@hotmail.com>

Diez B. Roggisch wrote:

> A way to accomplish this is the usage of metaclasses. A metaclass gives you
> a sort of callback that gets invoked with the classname, the base classes
> and the class dictionary before the actual class object is created. Here
> you then can creat wrappers around all callables that implement your
> desired behaviour.
> 

Thanks, I'll take a look at that.

Ta,
    Matt


From bnetNOSPAM at ifrance.com  Fri Apr 30 18:55:53 2004
From: bnetNOSPAM at ifrance.com (=?iso-8859-1?q?Beno=EEt_Dejean?=)
Date: Sat, 01 May 2004 00:55:53 +0200
Subject: operator double() surprise in cxx
References: <mailman.145.1083293891.25742.python-list@python.org>
	<pan.2004.04.30.05.54.47.953852@ifrance.com>
	<mailman.150.1083326778.25742.python-list@python.org>
	<409259b9$0$20177$636a15ce@news.free.fr>
Message-ID: <pan.2004.04.30.22.55.52.540546@ifrance.com>

Le Fri, 30 Apr 2004 15:50:50 +0200, Christophe Cavalaria a ?crit?:

> John Hunter wrote:
>>>>>>>"Beno?t" == Beno?t Dejean <bnetNOSPAM at ifrance.com> writes:

>>     Beno?t> everything that looks/tastes/sounds like a function
>>     Beno?t> declaration is (even with parameters.

> Exactly

BS ? faced ? this problem in a pre-Kona paper

http://anubis.dkuug.dk/JTC1/SC22/WG21/docs/papers/2003/n1509.pdf

this mostly because of the C-style where you declared function nearly
everywhere....



From Mike at DeleteThis.Geary.com  Tue Apr  6 22:10:38 2004
From: Mike at DeleteThis.Geary.com (Michael Geary)
Date: Tue, 6 Apr 2004 19:10:38 -0700
Subject: Tkinter: cut'n'paste from DISABLED window?
References: <c4vm3g$b2d$1@news.Stanford.EDU>
Message-ID: <1076oovf3jd9b28@corp.supernews.com>

Patrick L. Nolan wrote:
> Our Tkinter application has a big ScrolledText widget which is
> a log of everything that happens.  In order to prevent people
> from making changes, we have it in DISABLED mode except when
> the program wants to write a new entry.  This works OK, except
> that sometimes we want to copy out of piece of the contents and
> paste it in another window.  When it's DISABLED, it appears
> that we can't even select a portion of the text.
>
> Is this an either-or situation?  Or is there some clever way to
> get around it?
>
> If it matters, we want this to work on both Linux and Windows.

I don't know if this will help, but maybe it will provide a hint...

In a native Windows app, the way you do this is to make the edit control
read-only instead of disabled. For example, if you right-click a file in
Windows and select Properties, you'll notice that you can select and copy
text from any of the text fields in the General tab of the property sheet.

The way this is done is by making those text fields Edit controls with the
ES_READONLY style (and without the WS_DISABLED style).

-Mike




From jbenson at sextans.lowell.edu  Sat Apr  3 11:25:24 2004
From: jbenson at sextans.lowell.edu (Jim Benson)
Date: Sat, 3 Apr 2004 09:25:24 -0700 (MST)
Subject: simple popen question
In-Reply-To: <106t53d7spbgr3d@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0404030915070.861-100000@sextans.mesa.lowellnet>

On Sat, 3 Apr 2004, Cameron Laird wrote:

> In article <1080965541.46978 at yasure>, Donn Cave <donn at drizzle.com> wrote:
> >Quoth Jim Benson <jbenson at sextans.lowell.edu>:
> >| On Fri, 2 Apr 2004, Cameron Laird wrote:
> >...
> >|> In general, no; the reader doesn't control the buffering, the writer does.
> >|
> >
> >Well, the writer knows.  When you run it "from the shell", that
> >really means its output device is /dev/tty.  When you run it from
> >popen(), its output device is a pipe.  C library I/O, and hence
> >most application I/O, automatically treats these two devices
> >differently.  Or rather, it treats the tty specially, and treats
> >a pipe like any other file.  For the tty it uses line buffering,
> >for everything else block buffering.
> >
> 
> All true--and Python even has an answer, Pexpect, for those stuck
> with such subtleties.  I repeat my advice, though, that Mr. Benson
> will likeliest find quick satisfaction simply by having his writer
> flush on newline.

Thanks to all...i understand what is going on much better now.
I'll try your advice Mr. Laird and add a flush to the write
side. It sounds like that is what i want.

> 
> Also, Mr. Benson, are you *sure* you want to treat blank lines as
> end-of-message markers?
> 

Perhaps not...but it seems to work. It doesn't stop on
lines that contain only a '\n\0' for example. Hence
on the write side i can print out apparently blank lines..
to make the reading of the output easier....and the 
readline loop keeps piping them and only stops when the
executable stops. 

Thanks again,

Jim 




From stephendotboulet at motorola_._com  Wed Apr 14 17:21:18 2004
From: stephendotboulet at motorola_._com (Stephen Boulet)
Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2004 16:21:18 -0500
Subject: Error copying a file
Message-ID: <c5ka45$c8v$1@newshost.mot.com>

I know that the name of this file is somewhat pathological, but this if 
weird:

 >>> print myfile
E:\Fritz Reiner\Rimsky-Korsakov--Scheherazade.Debussy--La Mer\01 
Symphonic Suite after "A Thousand and One Nights" - The Sea and Sinbad's 
Ship.ogg

 >>> os.path.isfile(myfile)
True
 >>> os.path.getsize(myfile)
12321468L
 >>> shutil.copy2(myfile,r'D:\foo.ogg')
Traceback (most recent call last):
   File "<input>", line 1, in ?
   File "C:\Python23\Lib\shutil.py", line 82, in copy2
     copyfile(src, dst)
   File "C:\Python23\Lib\shutil.py", line 37, in copyfile
     fsrc = open(src, 'rb')
IOError: [Errno 2] No such file or directory: 'E:\\Fritz 
Reiner\\Rimsky-Korsakov--Scheherazade.Debussy--La Mer\\01 Symphonic 
Suite after "A Thousand and One Nights" - The Sea and Sinbad\'s Ship.ogg'
 >>> shutil.copy(myfile,r'D:\foo.ogg')
Traceback (most recent call last):
   File "<input>", line 1, in ?
   File "C:\Python23\Lib\shutil.py", line 71, in copy
     copyfile(src, dst)
   File "C:\Python23\Lib\shutil.py", line 37, in copyfile
     fsrc = open(src, 'rb')
IOError: [Errno 2] No such file or directory: 'E:\\Fritz 
Reiner\\Rimsky-Korsakov--Scheherazade.Debussy--La Mer\\01 Symphonic 
Suite after "A Thousand and One Nights" - The Sea and Sinbad\'s Ship.ogg'

Must have CD, btw, for you Fritz Reiner fans ... and yes I do own the cd ;)

Stephen


From arigo at tunes.org  Sat Apr  3 18:05:12 2004
From: arigo at tunes.org (Armin Rigo)
Date: Sat, 3 Apr 2004 23:05:12 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Python is faster than C
References: <406F0907.96F37EA1@tunes.org> <7xy8pcogaa.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <406F454B.C4CC8063@tunes.org>

Hello Paul,

Paul Rubin wrote:
> I think enumerate(xrange(1000000000)) returning a normal list would
> exhaust memory before some later optimizer had a chance to do anything
> with it.

There are two levels: the language specification and its implementation.
My point is that there is no reason why everything that is (at the
language level) a list, should always be implemented as a plain array of
objects.  The list returned by range(1000000) doesn't have to use 4MB of
memory when the same information can be encoded in a couple of ints. 
The presence of xrange() is the oldest of these user-visible
optimization hack that should have been optimized in the implementation
instead.  Similarily, if you do 'a'*999999999 I can think of a better
way to encode the resulting string than with 100MB of RAM.

On your specific example, we could also argue that a slightly involved
but reasonable amount of effort would allow C functions to internally
receive a context hint, which would tell enumerate() that its result
will only ever be used for iteration when this is the case, so that it
can internally return an iterable instead of a list -- but this would
only be a hack, a workaround for the limits of CPython's internal object
representations.


Armin


From ptmcg at austin.rr._bogus_.com  Mon Apr 26 01:11:05 2004
From: ptmcg at austin.rr._bogus_.com (Paul McGuire)
Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2004 05:11:05 GMT
Subject: Help a newbie revise my program
References: <5SZic.98241$U83.18636@fed1read03>
Message-ID: <JR0jc.25858$NR5.10366@fe1.texas.rr.com>

"Sean Berry" <sean_berry at cox.net> wrote in message
news:5SZic.98241$U83.18636 at fed1read03...
> My program is used by an applet to look up items in a mysql database.
> It is a "smart program".  By that I mean it returns different results
based
> on
> the arguments from the URL.  Like,
> www.domain.com/cgi-bin/getModels?shaped=5&sized=7
>
> It works well enough.  However, I would like to find out better ways to do
> some of the things I am doing,
> such as getting the variable values from the URL.
>

I think you'll find some helpful stuff in the cgi module, especially
parse_qs(queryString), which in your example will return a dictionary as
follows:

>>> import cgi
>>> print cgi.parse_qs("shaped=5&sized=7")
{'sized': ['7'], 'shaped': ['5']}
>>>

I can't explain why the dictionary values are lists, though - I would have
expected scalar strings.

-- Paul




From jjl at pobox.com  Thu Apr 22 17:51:33 2004
From: jjl at pobox.com (John J. Lee)
Date: 22 Apr 2004 22:51:33 +0100
Subject: Deleting objects - my earler post got garbled
References: <b4a8ffb6.0404221209.d612c6@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <87brljel5m.fsf@pobox.com>

tkpmep at hotmail.com (Thomas Philips) writes:

> I have a question about deleting objects. My game has two classes,
> Player and Alien, essentially identical, instances of which can shoot
> at each other. Player is described below
> 
> class Player(object):
>     #Class attributes for class Player
>     n=0 #n is the number of players
> 
>     #Private methods for class Player
>     def __init__(self,name):
>         self.name = name
>         self.strength = 100
>         Player.n +=1
> 
>     def __del__(self):
>         Player.n -=1
>         print "I guess I lost this battle"
>     
>     #Public methods for class Player
>     def blast(self,enemy,energy):
>         enemy.hit(energy)
> 
>     def hit(self,energy):
>         self.strength -= energy
>         if(self.strength <= 50):
>             self.__del__()
> 
> I instantiate one instance of each class: 
> Hero = Player("Me")
> Villain = Alien("Not Me")
> 
> If Hero hits Villain with 
> Hero.blast(Villain, 100), 
> 
> Villain dies and executes its destructor (__del__). The game then
> ends. However, 
[...questions, questions, questions...]

Don't trouble yourself with these questions Thomas, you really don't
want to know.

Just Don't Do That: simply represent your character's death by some
means other than destroying your Hero.  __del__ methods are to be
avoided unless you really can't see another way.  And as for *calling*
__del__ explicitly... well, I think my laziness in not liking to think
about what happens then is a virtue :-)

thank-Guido-this-isn't-C++-ly y'rs,


John


From __peter__ at web.de  Thu Apr 15 08:49:45 2004
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2004 14:49:45 +0200
Subject: Deleting objects with method reference
References: <eb7d4731.0404140022.4536ed8d@posting.google.com>
	<c5iusn$v32$03$1@news.t-online.com>
	<eb7d4731.0404150159.9ec64b3@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <c5m0df$m60$05$1@news.t-online.com>

Martin wrote:

> However your example doesn't seem to work.
> 
> import weakref
> import gc
> 
> def ondel(o):
>    print "del"
> 
> class B:
>    def F(self):
>       print "f"
>    def Set(self):
>       self.v = self.F
> 
> o1 = B()
> w1 = weakref.ref(o1, ondel)
> del o1
>>>> del
> 
> o2 = B()
> o2.Set()
> w2 = weakref.ref(o2, ondel)
> del o2
> 
> When I delete o2 I get no output. And gc.garbage is still empty!
> 
> gc.garbage
>>>> []
> 
> I have tried it in both python 2.1 and 2.3.3. Why doesn't it work?

I've cut and pasted the above, put it into ondel.py,
removed 
    >>> del 
added 
    print gc.garbage
as the last line and executed it (on Linux). Here's what I got:

$ python2.1 ondel.py
del
[]
$ python2.2 ondel.py
del
[]
$ python2.3 ondel.py
del
[]
del
$

So at least with python 2.3.3 ondel() is called for both objects. The order
however suggests interference with the shutdown process. Adding 
    gc.collect()
before 
    print gc.garbage
this changes to

$ python2.3 ondel.py
del
del
[]
$ python2.2 ondel.py
del
del
[]
$ python2.1 ondel.py
del
del
[]

which I would have expected in the first place. So why does(n't) it work
that way? I have no idea, but explicitly invoking the garbage collector
does definitely not seem the way to go.

Peter



From rob02omni at vodafone.it  Thu Apr  1 03:00:43 2004
From: rob02omni at vodafone.it (Roberto)
Date: Thu, 1 Apr 2004 10:00:43 +0200
Subject: Embedding
Message-ID: <c4ghms$r4m$1@fata.cs.interbusiness.it>

Hi there,
Can you point me for a good tutorial on embedding (not the manual)?
In particular i'm searching for example that return result from python to c.

Thanks!
-- 
Rob




From eppstein at ics.uci.edu  Fri Apr 16 02:23:38 2004
From: eppstein at ics.uci.edu (David Eppstein)
Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2004 23:23:38 -0700
Subject: [Newbie Q on String & List Manipulation]
References: <567a7c35.0404150247.7809bef5@posting.google.com>
	<567a7c35.0404152154.1645e79d@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <eppstein-0848C7.23233815042004@news.service.uci.edu>

In article <567a7c35.0404152154.1645e79d at posting.google.com>,
 matthew at coredumps.net (Matthew) wrote:

>     finally, i found a way to make to a+=b works,
>     but, i don't understand why it works... ;(

I was seeing a lot of newline (^M) characters at the ends of the strings 
you posted.  When you concatenate them together then output them, the ^M 
may cause the lines to overwrite each other causing you to think you're 
only seeing the last one.  But repr turns these characters into a 
sequence of two characters, backslash followed by r.  Is this your 
problem?  If so, maybe you want to call strip() on your strings before 
concatenating or joining them?

-- 
David Eppstein                      http://www.ics.uci.edu/~eppstein/
Univ. of California, Irvine, School of Information & Computer Science


From __peter__ at web.de  Tue Apr 20 03:51:39 2004
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 09:51:39 +0200
Subject: Generic constructors and duplication of internal Python logic
References: <87ekqq41ya.fsf@pobox.com> <c5lfi6$cit$00$1@news.t-online.com>
	<87oepnzlbp.fsf@pobox.com>
Message-ID: <c62kqc$glm$07$1@news.t-online.com>

John J. Lee wrote:

> Peter Otten <__peter__ at web.de> writes:
> 
>> John J. Lee wrote:
> [...]
>> You could use a noop method check_attrs() to define the argspec.
>> check_attrs() is then called from the mixin's __init__() just to check
>> that the parameters comply.
>> 
>> import inspect
>> 
>> def make_attrspec(f):
>>     a = inspect.getargspec(f)
>>     names = a[0]
>>     if names[0] in ["self", "cls"]:
>>         # XXX for now relies on naming convention
>>         del names[0]
>>     defaults = a[3]
>>     for i in range(-1, -len(defaults)-1, -1):
>>         names[i] = names[i], defaults[i]
>>     return names
>> 
>> class ArgsMixin:
>>     def __init__(self, *args, **kwds):
>>         self.check_attrs(*args, **kwds)
>> 
>> class Blah(ArgsMixin):
>>     def check_attrs(self, foo, bar, baz, optional1="first",
>> optional2="second"):
>>         pass
>>     attr_spec = make_attrspec(check_attrs)
> 
> Clever.  But how to get __init__ to assign the arguments to the
> instance?
> 
> b = Blah(foo=1, bar=2, optional1=4)
> assert b.foo, b.bar, b.optional1 = 1, 2, 4
> 
> 
> That half of the problem is missing in your solution.

I'll give it a try (untested):

class ArgsMixin:
    def __init__(self, *args, **kwds):
        self.check_attrs(*args, **kwds)
        # positionals provided
        for n, v in zip(self.attr_spec, args):
            setattr(self, n, v)
        # positionals using defaults
        for nv in self.attr_spec[len(args):]:
            if not isinstance(nv, basestring):
                n, v = nv
                if not n in kwds:
                    setattr(self, n, v)
        # keyword args
        for n, v in kwds.iteritems():
            setattr(self, n, v)

The clumsy basestring check could be avoided if you either split attr_spec
in the tuple/non-tuple parts or precalculate the first non-tuple position.

Peter



From fumanchu at amor.org  Thu Apr 15 16:39:18 2004
From: fumanchu at amor.org (Robert Brewer)
Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2004 13:39:18 -0700
Subject: Breakpoint in IDLE's debugger
Message-ID: <DE1CF2B4FEC4A342BF62B6B2B334601E561FFE@opus.amorhq.net>

Batista, Facundo wrote:

> I want to start my program under the IDLE's debugger,
> click "Go", and let the program run.
> But also want that if the program goes through a specific
> line of code, to stop and let me advance with "Step" or
> "Over" buttons.
> In Borland C++ 4.0 this was called "breakpoint": you mark
> a line with a breakpoint and get that behaviour.
> Exists something similar in IDLE?

I don't know about IDLE, but if you're on Windows, Mark Hammond's
Pythonwin has this feature.


FuManChu



From donn at u.washington.edu  Fri Apr 30 16:06:00 2004
From: donn at u.washington.edu (Donn Cave)
Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2004 13:06:00 -0700
Subject: Dictionnary vs Class for configuration
References: <40929016$0$8635$626a14ce@news.free.fr>
Message-ID: <donn-EB7C7F.13060030042004@nntp1.u.washington.edu>

In article <40929016$0$8635$626a14ce at news.free.fr>,
 "Famille Delorme" <fadelorme at free.fr> wrote:
...
> I want know :
>  - what is more faster, dictionnary method or class method?
>  - what use more ram memory ?
>  - if you are administrator, what method you like for configure program ?

I think there would be some arguments in favor of a class, but
they're not very important - at least, they're certainly not
evident in your example.  But you raise an important point, about
efficiency.

It isn't important, and you shouldn't think about anything else
until you understand this.

I mean, not that efficiency isn't important in general - it
certainly is - but not for a configuration record.  It will
have only a handful of parameters, one or two instances in
the whole program.  This is absurdly trivial.  Some time,
see if you can determine how much Python actually does just
to start itself up each time.  Just for perspective.

Don't worry about the efficiency of a construct that you aren't
going to exercise very hard.  Worry instead about maintainability,
because that's where software more commonly meets its fatal end.
Think about what your instructor is saying in that context.

   Donn Cave, donn at u.washington.edu


From kavkeeper at telekomsrpske.com  Tue Apr  6 07:30:31 2004
From: kavkeeper at telekomsrpske.com (kavkeeper at telekomsrpske.com)
Date: Tue, 06 Apr 2004 13:30:31 +0200
Subject: Pronadjen virus u poruci koju ste poslali!
Message-ID: <i36DUVb01410837@telekomsrpske.com>

Kaspersky Anti-Virus 4.0.0 pronasao je problem, poruka koju ste poslali sadrzi virus:

----------------------
Poslao:python-list at python.org
Za:kavkeeper at telekomsrpske.com

----------------------


From jonas at jonasgalvez.com  Wed Apr 21 13:43:30 2004
From: jonas at jonasgalvez.com (Jonas Galvez)
Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2004 14:43:30 -0300
Subject: Stupid Regex Question
References: <DE1CF2B4FEC4A342BF62B6B2B334601E562034@opus.amorhq.net>
Message-ID: <c66bvj$j29$1@sea.gmane.org>

> [Robert Brewer]
> P.S. Top-posting may get you flayed alive by some around here.

Robert and Fredrik, thanks a lot.

I'm sorry, what do you mean by "top-posting"? English is my second
language so I'm not very used to a few expressions. Also, I'm
posting to this group via gmane.org's NNTP server.



Cheers,


=-
Jonas Galvez
jonasgalvez.com/blog
macromedia.com/go/team







From joe at notcharles.ca  Thu Apr  1 10:22:51 2004
From: joe at notcharles.ca (Joe Mason)
Date: Thu, 01 Apr 2004 15:22:51 GMT
Subject: ANNOUNCE: 'goto' for Python
References: <mailman.210.1080803438.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<c4gk3c$hfb$1@swifty.westend.com>
Message-ID: <slrnc6ob89.t66.joe@gate.notcharles.ca>

In article <c4gk3c$hfb$1 at swifty.westend.com>, Peter Maas wrote:
> Richie Hindle wrote:
>> Entrian Solutions is pleased to announce version 1.0 of the 'goto' module.
>> 
>> This adds the 'goto' and 'comefrom' keywords to Python 2.3, adding
>> flexibility to Python's control flow mechanisms and allowing Python
>> programmers to use many common control flow idioms that were previously
>> denied to them.
> 
> Great!!! This will enhance Python's yet poor capabilities to write
> code with a behaviour hard to predict by programmers thereby adding
> a human touch to the sometimes too clean and dull Python language!

Next up: "from grovel import please"

Joe


From andymac at bullseye.apana.org.au  Fri Apr 16 19:12:58 2004
From: andymac at bullseye.apana.org.au (Andrew MacIntyre)
Date: Sat, 17 Apr 2004 09:12:58 +1000 (EST)
Subject: Convert from PDF to raster format image
In-Reply-To: <8a27e309.0404161054.2a5c5ecc@posting.google.com>
References: <8a27e309.0404161054.2a5c5ecc@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <20040417090933.U89016@bullseye.apana.org.au>

On Sat, 16 Apr 2004, R.Marquez wrote:

> Does any one know of a way to convert PDF documents into a raster
> format, such as TIFF or JPEG?  Of course to do it in Python would be
> my preference, but if you know of another way to do this
> programatically I would also be interested.  Thanks.

Ghostscript?

If it can, on some platforms GS is built as a DLL or shared object, with a
defined API.  The ctypes module might be able to let you drive this;
failing that, os.system() would work.

--
Andrew I MacIntyre                     "These thoughts are mine alone..."
E-mail: andymac at bullseye.apana.org.au  (pref) | Snail: PO Box 370
        andymac at pcug.org.au             (alt) |        Belconnen  ACT  2616
Web:    http://www.andymac.org/               |        Australia



From tjreedy at udel.edu  Thu Apr 29 13:00:21 2004
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Thu, 29 Apr 2004 13:00:21 -0400
Subject: reading and removing first x bytes of a file
References: <c6r1rc$kl5$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu><XPCdncN34ahjlgzdRVn-tw@powergate.ca><40911B85.5080107@hotmail.com>
	<ULWdnWmpDt46vgzdRVn-gw@powergate.ca>
Message-ID: <c6rcat$m8b$1@sea.gmane.org>


"Peter Hansen" <peter at engcorp.com> wrote in message
news:ULWdnWmpDt46vgzdRVn-gw at powergate.ca...
> Anyway, you can't actually "remove" bytes from the files, so
> what you really need to do is then read the *rest* of the bytes
> (i.e. keep the file open after the first read, and do a .read()
> of the rest of the data) and then write the shortened data to
> a temporary file (module tempfile can be helpful here), then
> once that's worked, use os.remove to remove the old file, and
> os.rename to rename the temp file to the same name as the old
> file.

IF the remainder of the file fits in memory, then it can 'moved up' by
rewriting same file after seeking to beginning of file.  Don't know how
safe on MAC OSes (ie, degree to which write is atomic).  Of course, if data
are important, one should have at least a few minutes of battery backup.

TJR






From hemanth_sethuram at yahoo.com  Thu Apr 22 03:39:32 2004
From: hemanth_sethuram at yahoo.com (Hemanth P.S.)
Date: 22 Apr 2004 00:39:32 -0700
Subject: Python editors for Windows question
References: <D6Ahc.2737911$iA2.315963@news.easynews.com>
	<vUBhc.2744103$iA2.316352@news.easynews.com>
Message-ID: <9be5e130.0404212339.6c468b44@posting.google.com>

You can also give SPE (Stani's Python Editor) a try. (http://spe.pycs.net)

---Hemanth

"Dustin" <dustin at myaddress.net> wrote in message news:<vUBhc.2744103$iA2.316352 at news.easynews.com>...
> Thank you everyone. I will test out the various editors! :-)
> 
> "Dustin" <dustin at myaddress.net> wrote in message
> news:D6Ahc.2737911$iA2.315963 at news.easynews.com...
> > Hello,
> >
> > I just started programming in Python last night, and I've really enjoyed
>  my
> > experience so far. I would like to know if there is a Windows editor that
> > recognizes Python and will support a module syntax/definition lists For
> > instance, let's say that I set form = cgi and then when I hit the period
> > (".") on the keyboard, a list of objects shows up, such as FieldStorage(),
> > etc.. Any suggestions are appreciated. Thank you!
> >
> > Dustin
> >
> >


From gouwsh2 at telkom.co.za  Wed Apr 28 07:54:42 2004
From: gouwsh2 at telkom.co.za (Henko Gouws (H))
Date: Wed, 28 Apr 2004 13:54:42 +0200
Subject: Good examples for Embedding python in C, C++
Message-ID: <3DC50FF8E8D8CF42983C2ACB9230FA4F3C7CC7@mntnra02-fnp00.telkom.co.za>

Hallo

I am looking for good examples on how to call a python script from C,
C++ and pass parameters (list of strings) to the python script.  The
aim is to ultimately allow the end-user to modify the python script,
without any code recompilation, to suit the needs of the end-user.
The C, C++ part will remain intact.

I could not find good examples, that could help me with this, in the
references from python.org.  I would appreciate your help.

thanks
Henko



From listas at grahal.net  Thu Apr 22 10:51:41 2004
From: listas at grahal.net (Gustavo Rahal)
Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2004 11:51:41 -0300
Subject: how to configure apache with mod_python?
Message-ID: <4087DBFD.1070009@grahal.net>

Hi

I just started with mod_python but i can't make it work. I tried to test 
the following 
http://www.modpython.org/live/current/doc-html/inst-testing.html
but apache still interpretats the mptest.py as plain text.
I'm using fedora 1, apache 2.0.48, mod_python 3.0.4

Thanks
Gustavo



From Mike at DeleteThis.Geary.com  Sat Apr 24 03:36:58 2004
From: Mike at DeleteThis.Geary.com (Michael Geary)
Date: Sat, 24 Apr 2004 00:36:58 -0700
Subject: Why we will use obj$func() often
References: <d2Uhc.22272$dZ1.1600@fed1read04> <84Uhc.22278$dZ1.5087@fed1read04>
	<mailman.927.1082665370.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<8AWhc.23114$dZ1.11070@fed1read04> <40883BFE.B381518A@alcyone.com>
	<27_hc.23801$dZ1.2716@fed1read04> <40887145.789A2FE8@alcyone.com>
	<7cki80hj976bia36lhf9er97v073o1pqvm@4ax.com>
	<w8dic.28710$dZ1.11206@fed1read04> <ulXiAls/KH1K089yn@the-wire.com>
	<lkfic.29767$dZ1.17301@fed1read04>
	<donn-66132E.15345723042004@nntp3.u.washington.edu>
	<PLhic.30493$dZ1.22063@fed1read04> <1082783076.585831@yasure>
	<Tunic.32387$dZ1.12932@fed1read04>
Message-ID: <108k68qjff4o9ed@corp.supernews.com>

Mark Hahn wrote:
> You aren't the only one who thinks that closures are unnecessary.
> Dave McQuigg has posted several messages today making that
> argument.  I also have several people saying they couldn't live
> without them.  One javascript programmer says he uses instance
> variables for access outside of objects (properties) and closure
> variables for storage variables inside objects.  He has posted a
> lengthy messge about it on the Prothon lists.  Go figure.

I'm the JavaScript programmer. :-)

I would never say I couldn't live without closures--I don't think I've seen
a situation where they are the only way to get the job done. But I do find
that they provide a very clean and natural way to do some things.

One problem with talking about closures is that silly counter example that
we all come up with when we need to demonstrate their use. Even closure fans
like me use that same example for some reason--it must be a law or
something. The trouble with that example is that there's not really much
benefit to the closure there. (Just an observation: The arguments I'm seeing
against closures are coming from people who haven't used them in situations
where they are beneficial.)

One place I've been finding closures to be a clean, elegant solution is in
Acrobat multimedia JavaScript code, especially in event listener methods. I
developed the multimedia JavaScript API in Acrobat 6, and naturally I had to
eat my own dog food and develop a number of sample multimedia PDF files.
(You can find one of them at www.mfiles.co.uk - scroll down to the Animated
PDF Sheet Music section.)

Here is some Acrobat multimedia code written with and without closures.
(Sorry to use JavaScript as an example, but I don't have any real life
Python or Prothon code with closures handy. This should serve to illustrate
the concept, though.)

We'll define a function "reportScriptEvents( reporter )" which plays a media
clip and listens for any Script events that the media clip fires. It
accumulates the text of those Script events in a log string, and when the
player closes, it calls the 'reporter' function and passes it that string.
This is done using event listener methods which are called during
playback--after reportScriptEvents returns.

Here is the reportScriptEvents function and a testReport function which
provides a reporter that pops up a message box when the player closes:

function reportScriptEvents( reporter )
{
    var log = "";

    app.media.openPlayer(
    {
        events:
        {
            onScript: function( e )
            {
                log += e.media.command + ': ' + e.media.param + '\n';
            },

            afterClose: function()
            {
                reporter( log );
            },
        },
    });
}

function testReport( title )
{
    reportScriptEvents( function( log )
    {
        app.alert({ cTitle: title, cMsg: log });
    });
}

testReport( 'Here are the script events' );

To me this is very clean and simple. I don't have to think about the fact
that the onScript and afterClose functions are called long after
reportScriptEvents returns, or the fact that the anonymous reporter function
inside testReport is called after testReport returns. I don't have to create
an object or any kind of machinery to hold these persistent variables. They
just work.

As an alternative without the closures, I can take advantage of the fact
that we pass the media player object into the event methods:

function reportScriptEvents( reporter )
{
    var player = app.media.createPlayer();
    player.myLog = "";
    player.myReporter = reporter;

    player.events.add(
    {
        onScript: function( e )
        {
            e.media.player.myLog +=
                e.media.command + ': ' + e.media.param + '\n';
        },

        afterClose: function( e )
        {
            e.media.player.myReporter( e.media.player.myLog );
        },
    });

    player.open();
}

This is quite a bit messier. I have to know more about the details of what
Acrobat passes into event listeners (the e.media.player.* business). And I
still have to come up with something to substitute for the closure in the
testReport function.

Maybe there is a more elegant solution, but it's past midnight and the
margin of my brain is too small to contain it. Closures make this kind of
code so simple that I can understand it even at this late hour.

-Mike




From no.email at please.com  Mon Apr 12 14:03:57 2004
From: no.email at please.com (Stevie_mac)
Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2004 19:03:57 +0100
Subject: String + number split
Message-ID: <2SAec.70005$Id.6002@news-binary.blueyonder.co.uk>

Hello again, I can do this, but I'm sure there is a much more elegant way...

A string, with a number on the end, strip off the number & discard any underscores

eg...

font12        becomes         ('font',12)
arial_14      becomes        ('arial',14)

Cheers




From roy at panix.com  Thu Apr 15 21:27:09 2004
From: roy at panix.com (Roy Smith)
Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2004 21:27:09 -0400
Subject: Difficulty Finding Python Developers
References: <65cbc3dd.0404140641.3501fde8@posting.google.com>
	<5d83790c.0404150701.605782a7@posting.google.com>
	<roy-A17A1C.12565615042004@reader2.panix.com>
	<7xpta8hqe7.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<roy-A844BA.18263715042004@reader2.panix.com>
	<7xsmf4kbac.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <roy-B8AA1E.21270915042004@reader2.panix.com>

Paul Rubin <http://phr.cx at NOSPAM.invalid> wrote:
> Yes, the point is you never know when you're going to need to use it,
> and having a deadline breathing down your neck isn't the right time to
> learn about it.  Especially in a startup company, there are just too
> many situations where the fate of the whole company depends on your
> making something work RIGHT NOW, sometimes even with an investor or
> customer looking over your shoulder.

OK, but I'm not sure what point you're trying to make.

My assertion was that you can learn enough to do useful work in a 
weekend.  You're saying that there are situations where you need to know 
more.  These are not mutually exclusive statements.

You also pointed out that the standard Python library doesn't cover 
every possible piece of functionality that everybody might ever need.  
This is obviously a true statement, but it's equally true for Perl, 
Java, TCL, C, C++, Ruby, Smalltalk, etc.  And it's a good thing, too.  
If everything that everybody ever wanted had already been written, you 
and me would be out of a job :-)


From eppstein at ics.uci.edu  Fri Apr  9 03:09:10 2004
From: eppstein at ics.uci.edu (David Eppstein)
Date: Fri, 09 Apr 2004 00:09:10 -0700
Subject: print u"\u0432": why is this so hard? UnciodeEncodeError
References: <cpa4qrvb529.fsf@cabernet.nelson.monkey.org>
	<c52lu9$j8c$03$1@news.t-online.com>
	<eppstein-55126D.00202008042004@news.service.uci.edu>
	<c546v4$bi5$02$1@news.t-online.com>
	<mailman.474.1081470992.20120.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <eppstein-E7E585.00091009042004@news.service.uci.edu>

In article <mailman.474.1081470992.20120.python-list at python.org>,
 Hye-Shik Chang <perky at i18n.org> wrote:

> The encoding of darwin terminal can be discovered by the routine
> currently we have.
> 
> perky$ LC_ALL=ko_KR.UTF-8 python
> Python 2.3 (#1, Sep 13 2003, 00:49:11) 
> [GCC 3.3 20030304 (Apple Computer, Inc. build 1495)] on darwin
> Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
> >>> import sys;sys.stdin.encoding
> 'UTF-8'
> >>> ^D
> perky$ LC_ALL=ko_KR.eucKR python
> Python 2.3 (#1, Sep 13 2003, 00:49:11) 
> [GCC 3.3 20030304 (Apple Computer, Inc. build 1495)] on darwin
> Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
> >>> import sys;sys.stdin.encoding
> 'eucKR'

Well, no.

Python 2.3 (#1, Sep 13 2003, 00:49:11) 
[GCC 3.3 20030304 (Apple Computer, Inc. build 1495)] on darwin
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> import sys;sys.stdin.encoding
'US-ASCII'

But, in fact, the encoding of my Terminal.App is utf8 (the usual 
default), as set in the Terminal Inspector (Terminal->Window 
Settings...) Display pane, Character Set Encoding menu.

Possibly you can find Terminal's preferred encoding in 
Library/Preferences/com.apple.Terminal.plist (I just looked there, and 
don't see it, unless it's maybe the StringEncoding:4 line) but it can be 
changed from the default on a per-window basis and, like Martin, I don't 
know how to find out its current setting.

-- 
David Eppstein                      http://www.ics.uci.edu/~eppstein/
Univ. of California, Irvine, School of Information & Computer Science


From jcarlson at uci.edu  Thu Apr  8 23:22:52 2004
From: jcarlson at uci.edu (Josiah Carlson)
Date: Thu, 08 Apr 2004 20:22:52 -0700
Subject: GUI Frameworks in Python?
In-Reply-To: <8bydnQEwvqo-Ou7dRVn-hQ@comcast.com>
References: <mailman.102.1080629227.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<930ba99a.0404030246.786455f5@posting.google.com>
	<8ef9bea6.0404041009.26ae2683@posting.google.com>
	<c4tddj$2mjvdq$1@ID-169208.news.uni-berlin.de>
	<d86dnW_ktOblWu_dRVn-sQ@comcast.com>
	<c502p8$qh3$1@news.service.uci.edu>
	<8bydnQEwvqo-Ou7dRVn-hQ@comcast.com>
Message-ID: <c5554p$2mb$1@news.service.uci.edu>

> wxPython 2.4 drawline:
>   wxdc.drawline(x1,y1,x2,y2)
> 
> wxPython 2.5 drawline:
>   wxdc.drawline (wxPoint(x1,y1),wxPoint(x2,y2))

Using wxPoint is generally frowned upon in wxPython, in favor of tuples.

>   or the much simpler ((x1,y1),(x2,y2))
>   or you can do drawlineXY(x1,y1,x2,y2)

More to the point, the above is the only part that matters in the 
wxPython 2.4->2.5 discussion.

Based on this single example, you are complaining about needing to use 
wxdc.drawlineXY, rather than the old wxdc.drawline.

Certainly your opinion is valid, but it seems like you are splitting 
hairs, at least in this example.

  - Josiah


From jarrodhroberson at yahoo.com  Fri Apr 30 23:06:47 2004
From: jarrodhroberson at yahoo.com (Y2KYZFR1)
Date: 30 Apr 2004 20:06:47 -0700
Subject: Dictionnary vs Class for configuration
References: <40929016$0$8635$626a14ce@news.free.fr>
	<donn-EB7C7F.13060030042004@nntp1.u.washington.edu>
Message-ID: <c718a6cf.0404301906.380039df@posting.google.com>

Donn Cave <donn at u.washington.edu> wrote in message news:<donn-EB7C7F.13060030042004 at nntp1.u.washington.edu>...
> In article <40929016$0$8635$626a14ce at news.free.fr>,
>  "Famille Delorme" <fadelorme at free.fr> wrote:
> ...
> > I want know :
> >  - what is more faster, dictionnary method or class method?
> >  - what use more ram memory ?
> >  - if you are administrator, what method you like for configure program ?
> 
> I think there would be some arguments in favor of a class, but
> they're not very important - at least, they're certainly not
> evident in your example.  But you raise an important point, about
> efficiency.
> 
> It isn't important, and you shouldn't think about anything else
> until you understand this.
> 
> I mean, not that efficiency isn't important in general - it
> certainly is - but not for a configuration record.  It will
> have only a handful of parameters, one or two instances in
> the whole program.  This is absurdly trivial.  Some time,
> see if you can determine how much Python actually does just
> to start itself up each time.  Just for perspective.
> 
> Don't worry about the efficiency of a construct that you aren't
> going to exercise very hard.  Worry instead about maintainability,
> because that's where software more commonly meets its fatal end.
> Think about what your instructor is saying in that context.
> 
>    Donn Cave, donn at u.washington.edu


listen do Donn! He is the only one that has given the right answer :-)


From rob at robdijkshoorn.com  Tue Apr  6 06:02:27 2004
From: rob at robdijkshoorn.com (Rob Dijkshoorn)
Date: Tue, 6 Apr 2004 12:02:27 +0200
Subject: building Tkinter on AIX
Message-ID: <1081245754.652172@blaat.sara.nl>

Hi All,

I have some problems building the python modules, most notably Tkinter, on
AIX 5.1. Can anyone be of any assistance?

Thanks,
Rob

This is what the compiler spits out:

cc_r -DNDEBUG -O -I. -I/tmp/Python-2.3.3/./Include -I/usr/local/include -I/t
mp/Python-2.3.3/Include -I/tmp/Python-2.3.3 -c
/tmp/Python-2.3.3/Modules/_localemodule.c -o
build/temp.aix-5.1-2.3/_localemodule.o
./Modules/ld_so_aix cc_r -bI:Modules/python.exp
build/temp.aix-5.1-2.3/_localemodule.o -L/usr/local/lib -lintl -o
build/lib.aix-5.1-2.3/_locale.so
*** WARNING: renaming "_locale" since importing it failed:      0509-130
Symbol resolution failed for build/lib.aix-5.1-2.3/_locale.so because:
        0509-136   Symbol strcmp (number 40) is not exported from
                   dependent module /usr/lib/libintl.a(shr.o).
        0509-192 Examine .loader section symbols with the
                 'dump -Tv' command.
building '_tkinter' extension
./Modules/ld_so_aix cc_r -bI:Modules/python.exp
build/temp.aix-5.1-2.3/_tkinter.o
build/temp.aix-5.1-2.3/tkappinit.o -L/usr/X11R6/lib -L/usr/local/lib -ltk8.2
 -ltcl8.2 -lX11 -o build/lib.aix-5.1-2.3/_tkinter.so
ld: 0706-006 Cannot find or open library file: -l tk8.2
        ld:open(): A file or directory in the path name does not exist.
ld: 0706-006 Cannot find or open library file: -l tcl8.2
        ld:open(): A file or directory in the path name does not exist.
*** WARNING: renaming "_tkinter" since importing it failed: A file or
directory in the path name does not exist.
error: A file or directory in the path name does not exist.
make: 1254-004 The error code from the last command is 1.




From davidf at sjsoft.com  Wed Apr 21 06:37:24 2004
From: davidf at sjsoft.com (David Fraser)
Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2004 12:37:24 +0200
Subject: No built-in swap function?
In-Reply-To: <mailman.825.1082536331.20120.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.825.1082536331.20120.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <c65ii4$2fs$1@ctb-nnrp2.saix.net>

Simon Wittber wrote:
>>That's 6 LOAD_FAST, and 3 STORE_FAST operations, plus XOR'ing.
> 
> 
> NB. I do not fully understand how psyco works.
> 
> The point I was trying to make, is that I expected a psyco optimised xor
> swap to optimise down to ~3 CPU instructions, much like my old C
> compiler once did.
> 
> AFAIK, psyco generates machine code, not python byte code?
> 
> Sw.
> 
> 
Yes, psyco generates machine code. But why not ask this on the psyco 
mailing list? Armin is very responsive

David


From theller at python.net  Fri Apr 16 16:18:31 2004
From: theller at python.net (Thomas Heller)
Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2004 22:18:31 +0200
Subject: Python CPU? (Re: Python OS)
References: <107j4eu6ffn2c68@corp.supernews.com>
	<c5gc4n$s5q$1@swifty.westend.com>
	<c5nsct$3o9i6$1@ID-169208.news.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <llkv8ync.fsf@python.net>

Greg Ewing <greg at cosc.canterbury.ac.nz> writes:

> Peter Maas wrote:
>> The first step would probably be to define a Python OS. Surely no
>> CPU speaks Python :)
>
> Currently, no, but... *could* there be one?
>
> In one of my wilder daydreaming moments recently, I got
> to wondering what a machine designed from the ground up
> to run Python code might be like. I got a vision of a
> Python interpreter implemented in microcode, with a few
> extra bytecodes for low-level hardware access, with an
> OS written in Python running on top of it.
>
> Would it run Python code any faster than an interpreter
> running on an off-the-shelf CPU? Possibly not, but it's
> not clear that it couldn't, either. In any case, it
> would be a fun thing to design, and maybe even to build,
> perhaps using an FPGA.

Maybe a MyHDL backend for PyPy ?

Thomas




From cm at leetspeak.org  Mon Apr 12 20:07:53 2004
From: cm at leetspeak.org (Michael Walter)
Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2004 02:07:53 +0200
Subject: Escaping characters in MySQLdb query
In-Reply-To: <AkEec.271$U83.155@fed1read03>
References: <AkEec.271$U83.155@fed1read03>
Message-ID: <c5fb0o$131c4$1@ID-88904.news.uni-berlin.de>

Sean Berry wrote:
> I wrote a little script that is inserting thousands of records into a mysql
> database.
> 
> How do I escape characters like ' in my insert statements?
> 
> I have something like the following (much shorter) example:
> 
> c.execute("INSERT INTO records (var1, var2) values ('%s', '%s')"   %(value1,
> value2))
> 
> My problem is when value1 is something like "Tom's auto supply".  The ' in
> Tom's needs to be escaped.  How can I do this?
> 
> Thanks.
> 
> 
I suppose you do like:

c.execute("INSERT INTO records (var1, var2) values ('%s', '%s')", 
(value1,value2))

and have all magic done for you.

Cheers,
Michael


From peter at engcorp.com  Thu Apr 29 10:37:36 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Thu, 29 Apr 2004 10:37:36 -0400
Subject: static keyword
In-Reply-To: <f8097096.0404290607.78aa9ce3@posting.google.com>
References: <f8097096.0404290607.78aa9ce3@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <LeydnWxdT6atjgzdRVn-sA@powergate.ca>

Nick Jacobson wrote:

> I believe the following "static" command would be useful in Python.
[snip]
> Just like in C, the variables i and firstcall are only assigned the
> first time foo() is called.  To get this effect currently, one could
> use default arguments or wrapping the whole thing in a class.  Both of
> these solutions seem like hacks, the above method IMO is more
> Pythonic. :)

I'm not sure how to interpret the smiley, but I'll take it
you weren't actually joking...

Why do you call using OO ("wrapping it in a class", as you say)
a "hack"?  Generally speaking, using objects to contain state
information such as this is exactly what most people would call
the cleanest, best approach.

class HasState:
     def __init__(self):
         self.firstCall = True
         self.i = [10, 11]

     def foo(self):
         if self.firstCall:
             print "First pass"
             self.firstCall = False
         self.i[0] += 1
         print self.i[0]

obj = HasState()
obj.foo()
obj.foo()

Now, without arguing that it has 11 lines instead of 8 to do the
same thing (because then I'd just point out that this was a contrived
example anyway, and that it is more easily extended, and more obvious
what was going on, etc. :-) ), can you describe why you call this is
a "hack"?

-Peter


From theller at python.net  Fri Apr 23 10:40:20 2004
From: theller at python.net (Thomas Heller)
Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2004 16:40:20 +0200
Subject: [Q] C-api: string|int|... construction
References: <788E231C269961418F38D3E360D165259B408F@tndefr-ws00021.tenovis.corp.lan>
Message-ID: <brliahbf.fsf@python.net>

"Ames Andreas (MPA/DF)" <Andreas.Ames at tenovis.com> writes:

> Duncan Booth <me at privacy.net> writes:
>
>> Why are you wrapping the ODBC api instead of using one of the
>> existing wrappings?
>
> I just know about mxODBC and pyodbc (from pywin32, but it's easily
> ported to posix as it seems, there's something on Gnu's savannah I
> think).  Please tell me if there are others, I'd be glad to use
> existing ones to save time.
>
> Both of the above don't fit my needs both license-wise and technically
> (easy access to meta-data/schema, thread-safety etc.).  I actually
> like the idea of a low-level python wrapper around ODBC.  A dbi
> wrapper might be easier to write in python itself.

There is a python wrapping of odbc in Sam Rushing's dynwin package,
IIRC.  It is based on his calldll/npstruct package.

It may be an interesting experience to port this to the ctypes package,
which is the successor of calldll/npstruct ;-).

Thomas




From jcm at FreeBSD-uk.eu.org  Thu Apr 15 09:18:49 2004
From: jcm at FreeBSD-uk.eu.org (Jonathon McKitrick)
Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2004 14:18:49 +0100
Subject: Python style of accessing bools?
Message-ID: <20040415131849.GA44578@dogma.freebsd-uk.eu.org>


I'm trying to avoid leftover C-style in my new Python programs.

If a class has a boolean property, and I am branching based on that
property, which of these is preferred?

if MyClass.boolProp:
	<continue>

OR

if MyClass.IsTrueProp():
	<continue>

In other words, do you use accessors or just access the variable directly?

jm
-- 
My other computer is your Windows box.



From irmen at -nospam-remove-this-xs4all.nl  Tue Apr 20 22:00:24 2004
From: irmen at -nospam-remove-this-xs4all.nl (Irmen de Jong)
Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2004 04:00:24 +0200
Subject: Networking!
In-Reply-To: <mailman.794.1082469099.20120.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.794.1082469099.20120.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <4085d5b7$0$568$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>

hyperbob at walla.com wrote:
> 
> Hello,
>  
> I'm in the design stage of an application that will consist of two or 
> more processes that will be either on different computers in a network 
> or on the same computer and will have to communicate with each other. I 
> don't have much experience with networking, inter-process communication 
> or client-server architectures, and I'm wondering what is the best way 
> to do it.

Have a look at Pyro, http://pyro.sourceforge.net
It basically abstracts away all communication details for you :-)

--Irmen de Jong.


From python-url at phaseit.net  Mon Apr  5 22:10:57 2004
From: python-url at phaseit.net (Cameron Laird)
Date: Tue, 06 Apr 2004 02:10:57 -0000
Subject: Dr. Dobb's Python-URL! - weekly Python news and links (Apr  5)
Message-ID: <10744dh1dp44t09@corp.supernews.com>

QOTW:  "What is so nice about Python is that there are so many places
on the user/scripter/programmer/computer-scientist spectrum where you
can be and find Python to be a useful tool.  This makes it very easy to
build good collaborations between domain experts and 'real programmers'
where both sides can use the same language and neither feels constrained
or overwhelmed." - Roy Smith

"In this setting I'd say that Java is a win, though I wouldn't recom-
mend it in a setting where most people actually knew what they were
doing." - Stefan Axelsson


    "The next version of Python will have a 'statistics' module"
	http://groups.google.com/groups?th=d913218a36d6317f

    Peter Hansen bests any of the deliberate April Fools' Day
    pranks with his "adverbial keywords" throw-away
	http://groups.google.com/groups?frame=left&th=8f108e196e1094cf

    Roger Binns tells at the executive level what Pythoneers should
    know about Java
	http://groups.google.com/groups?frame=left&th=99f40535ad1384c

    Frank Millman cleverly illustrates how much of a data store
    comes nearly for free with list comprehensions
	http://groups.google.com/groups?th=107f7f0add2877db

    David Goodger gives a personal account of PyCon DC 2004
	http://starship.python.net/~goodger/pycon_dc_2004/

    Armin Rigo launches a thread on performance dense with strong
    emotions and confusions, but also deep questions about engineering
    choices.  Of course, any conversation that begins with attention
    to one of timbot's rewrites has a head start
        http://groups.google.com/groups?frame=left&th=d19db831cc569f21

    E ahora, en espanol:  las PFP (?) de Python, gracias a Facundo
    Batista
	http://www.python.org/doc/faq/es/

    The single most remarkable fact about Python GUI toolkits is 
    how many different ones truly give good value.  Even such apparent
    also-rans as pyXPCOM and PyGTK boast persuasive testimonials
	http://groups.google.com/groups?frame=left&th=1b399561311d8ddf

    How does one enumerate a lattice?  Thomas Heller, simon place,
    Josiah Carlson, and Stephen Horne demonstrate that even simple
    problems have better and worse solutions--particularly when
    list comprehensions and generators are available
	http://groups.google.com/groups?frame=left&th=f6232badea1ffff0


========================================================================
Everything Python-related you want is probably one or two clicks away in
these pages:

    Python.org's Python Language Website is the traditional
    center of Pythonia
        http://www.python.org
    Notice especially the master FAQ
        http://www.python.org/doc/FAQ.html

    PythonWare complements the digest you're reading with the
    marvelous daily python url
         http://www.pythonware.com/daily  
    Mygale is a news-gathering webcrawler that specializes in (new)
    World-Wide Web articles related to Python.
         http://www.awaretek.com/nowak/mygale.html 
    While cosmetically similar, Mygale and the Daily Python-URL
    are utterly different in their technologies and generally in
    their results.

    comp.lang.python.announce announces new Python software.  Be
    sure to scan this newsgroup weekly.
        http://groups.google.com/groups?oi=djq&as_ugroup=comp.lang.python.announce

    Brett Cannon continues the marvelous tradition established by 
    Andrew Kuchling and Michael Hudson of intelligently summarizing
    action on the python-dev mailing list once every other week.
	http://www.python.org/dev/summary/

    The Python Package Index catalogues packages.
        http://www.python.org/pypi/

    The somewhat older Vaults of Parnassus ambitiously collects references
    to all sorts of Python resources.
        http://www.vex.net/~x/parnassus/   

    Much of Python's real work takes place on Special-Interest Group
    mailing lists
        http://www.python.org/sigs/

    The Python Business Forum "further[s] the interests of companies
    that base their business on ... Python."
	http://www.python-in-business.org

    The Python Software Foundation (PSF) has replaced the Python
    Consortium as an independent nexus of activity.  It has official
    responsibility for Python's development and maintenance. 
        http://www.python.org/psf/
    Among the ways you can support PSF is with a donation.
        http://www.python.org/psf/donate.html

    Cetus collects Python hyperlinks.
        http://www.cetus-links.org/oo_python.html

    Python FAQTS
        http://python.faqts.com/

    The Cookbook is a collaborative effort to capture useful and
    interesting recipes.
	http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Cookbook/Python

    Among several Python-oriented RSS/RDF feeds available are
	http://www.python.org/channews.rdf
	http://bootleg-rss.g-blog.net/pythonware_com_daily.pcgi
	http://python.de/backend.php
    For more, see
	http://www.syndic8.com/feedlist.php?ShowMatch=python&ShowStatus=all
    The old Python "To-Do List" now lives principally in a
    SourceForge reincarnation.
        http://sourceforge.net/tracker/?atid=355470&group_id=5470&func=browse
        http://python.sourceforge.net/peps/pep-0042.html
     
    The online Python Journal is posted at pythonjournal.cognizor.com.
    editor at pythonjournal.com and editor at pythonjournal.cognizor.com
    welcome submission of material that helps people's understanding
    of Python use, and offer Web presentation of your work.

    *Py: the Journal of the Python Language*
        http://www.pyzine.com

    Archive probing tricks of the trade:
        http://groups.google.com/groups?oi=djq&as_ugroup=comp.lang.python&num=100
        http://groups.google.com/groups?meta=site%3Dgroups%26group%3Dcomp.lang.python.*

Previous - (U)se the (R)esource, (L)uke! - messages are listed here:
  http://www.ddj.com/topics/pythonurl/         
  http://purl.org/thecliff/python/url.html (dormant)
or
  http://groups.google.com/groups?oi=djq&as_q=+Python-URL!&as_ugroup=comp.lang.python


Suggestions/corrections for next week's posting are always welcome.
E-mail to <Python-URL at phaseit.net> should get through.

To receive a new issue of this posting in e-mail each Monday morning
(approximately), ask <claird at phaseit.net> to subscribe.  Mention
"Python-URL!".


-- The Python-URL! Team--

Dr. Dobb's Journal (http://www.ddj.com) is pleased to participate in and
sponsor the "Python-URL!" project.



From maschio_77 at hotmail.com  Sun Apr 18 14:02:55 2004
From: maschio_77 at hotmail.com (Federico)
Date: Sun, 18 Apr 2004 20:02:55 +0200
Subject: matplotlib error with tkagg
Message-ID: <c5ufpt$nnj$1@lacerta.tiscalinet.it>

Hi, I'm using python 2.2 under windows...when I use the 'Agg ' backend it
works fine but when I try to use the 'TkAgg' one I've an error message that
says :
....
....
"import tkagg                 # Paint image to Tk photo blitter extension
  File "D:\PYTHON~1.3\Lib\site-packages\matplotlib\backends\tkagg.py", line
1, in ?
    import _tkagg
ImportError: DLL load failed: " impossible to find the specified procedure

What do I need? with windows installers Agg and TkAgg should work without
install any requirements or not?
Thanks




From cnoviello at hotmail.com  Mon Apr 26 01:10:32 2004
From: cnoviello at hotmail.com (Carmine Noviello)
Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2004 05:10:32 GMT
Subject: [ANN]PyCrash-0.4pre2 released
Message-ID: <cR0jc.146132$Kc3.4849268@twister2.libero.it>

Hi,
a new version of PyCrash is released with new features and improvement.You
can download it at:

http://sourceforge.net/project/showfiles.php?group_id=98026&package_id=111026&release_id=233776

What's new in this release:

* Added a new method to PyCrash class, forceDump(), that forces the creation
of the crash dump, if an exception is raised. forceDump() can be very useful
when an exception hasn't reached the top-level, but the user wants the
same to make a dump of the application context.

* Starting from this release, by default, PyCrash doesn't start exception
tracing automatically. User must invoke the enable() method to start
tracing, and can use the disable() method to stop tracing in every moment.

* Now the getEncryptedCrashDump() method of utils.Encrypt.EncryptedPyCrash
class is deprecated, and it will be no longer supported starting from
PyCrash-0.4 release.Use instead the getCrashDump() method.

* Added a new class HTMLPyCrash, in the pycrash.util module, which converts
the crash dump in HTML format rather than XML. The generated HTML dump is
based on CSS, so the developer can define custom CSS to arrange the output.
There is also a new script in the util subdir, named pucrash2html.py, which
converts PyCrash file in  HTML format. You can see an example of the output
generated by the HTML dumper here:

  http://pycrash.sourceforge.net/test-pycrash.html

We are very pleased to receive suggests to imporve the HTML output.

Enjoy!

_______________________________________________________________________
About PyCrash Project:
PyCrash is a Run-Time Exception Dumper which handles uncaught exceptions
during the execution of Python programs and collects information about
the program context. PyCrash can be very useful in report bug information,
because the programmer can easily analyse the program execution context
of the crashed application.

Major information collected by PyCrash in the crash dump is:

- Information about operating system, Python and Python Standard
  Library version and general information about the program that is
  crashed (e.g., program name and version, time at witch program
  started and ended, and so on)

- Information about the uncaught exceptions, like the exception type,
  the context (namely method name) in which the exception occurred and
  the exception value

- General information about variables state

- Information about the stack of each thread, like the list of stack
  frames, the variables value in each stack frame, and so on

- General information about source code, like variable and function
  position in source file that can be useful for the programmer to find
  quickly bugs in source tree

The format of the crash dump file generated by PyCrash is XML, so the
programmer can easily read this file to understand why the program is
crashed.

Now, is also available a GUI browser, named PyCrash Viewer, which allows
developers to analyze quickly and easily PyCrash crash dump files in a
graphical manner.

* Starting from next version, we'll try to document all the PyCrash API

More information can be found at:

http://www.pycrash.org

Thanks!

<P><A HREF="http://www.pycrash.org";>PyCrash 0.4pre2</A> - a crash
handler for Python written applications. (25-04-04)</P>




From ptmcg at austin.rr._bogus_.com  Sat Apr 24 20:02:20 2004
From: ptmcg at austin.rr._bogus_.com (Paul McGuire)
Date: Sun, 25 Apr 2004 00:02:20 GMT
Subject: Proposed API change for pyparsing CaselessLiteral - could break
	existing code
Message-ID: <geDic.22772$hR1.20302@fe2.texas.rr.com>

***This is of especial interest for those who are using the pyparsing
module, and have defined grammars that make use of CaselessLiteral.***

One of the bugfix requests I recently got for pyparsing was to fix the
tokens returned by CaselessLiteral.  CaselessLiteral is an interesting
special case of Literal, since it matches a large number of possible input
tokens.  That is:

    CaselessLiteral("abcd")

could match abcd, abcD, abCD, abCd, etc.  When parsing something like SQL, a
CaselessLiteral('select') has even more options.

Ordinarily, the other parsing classes in pyparsing return the original
matched text from the input stream, but CaselessLiteral could make this
unwieldy - if you had something more complex like this possible grammar for
a Zork-type game:

    verb = ( CaselessLiteral("pick") | CaselessLiteral("turn") |
CaselessLiteral("drop") | <...and so on...> )

then the code to process the tokens would have to neutralize the case of the
input text, since it could be 'picK', 'Turn', 'DROP'.  So I expect that the
first thing the calling code would do with the results would be to convert
to upcase or lowercase.  Since this was so predictable, I decided to build
that into the interface, that in the case of CaselessLiteral, the input text
would *not* be returned as the matching text, but the original specifying
text string would be returned instead - after all, the caller had already
decided that case was not significant.  This is how the documentation reads,
that CaselessLiteral will return as its match text the original specifying
text string.

Unfortunately, I botched it, waaaaay back pre-1.0.0, when I first put
pyparsing up on SourceForge.  CaselessLiteral always returns the input text
converted to uppercase.  It is still a predictably-cased string, but not as
documented.  In fact, if someone were to specify CaselessLiteral("pick") and
get returned "PICK", this could make for other problems.

So for those of you who are still reading, and who use pyparsing, and have
CaselessLiterals in your code, and test on the returned text, what choice
would you prefer:

1. Keep the current behavior, and just change the docs.
2. Fix the current behavior to match the docs, and fix up any code that uses
it.

My personal preference is #2.  We are still early in pyparsing's code life -
it has only been generally available for about 4 months - and I think it
really is the preferred way to go.

On the other hand, pyparsing has been downloaded almost 900 times from SF,
and so I want to find out if this will end up making me lots of enemies. :)

Overall, this has been a gratifying experience - I have gotten many e-mails
from people who feel this tool is easy to pick up, and fills a common need.
I want to continue in those 900 peoples' good graces, or at least as many of
them as I can.

-- Paul




From notarangelotonio at tiscali.it  Tue Apr 27 14:52:53 2004
From: notarangelotonio at tiscali.it (Tonio)
Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2004 18:52:53 GMT
Subject: Newbie question: Where is python23_bcpp.lib?
References: <mailman.28.1083006128.25742.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <9_xjc.25942$Qc.1010128@twister1.libero.it>


  "De La Maza Michael A GS-11 AFSPC/XPYS" <Michael.DeLaMaza at PETERSON.af.mil> ha scritto nel messaggio news:mailman.28.1083006128.25742.python-list at python.org...
  Under Windows, I'm trying to make a program (Gambit Python APIs) using Borland (i.e., "make -f borland").

   

  The Borland make file, shown below, wants python23_bcpp.lib in $(PYTHONDIR)\libs\.

   

  Unfortunately, there is no such file (error shown below).  There is a python23.lib file but simply substituting python23_bcpp.lib with python23.lib does not work.

   

  Can anyone help?  Is this a problem with the borland.mak file or is it a problem with my install of Python?  (I can run a "Hello World" program in Python so Python is not completely broken).

   

  Thanks,

  Michael de la Maza

   

   

  ===Make file===

   

  #

  # $Source: /cvsroot/gambit/gambit/sources/python/borland.mak,v $

  # $Date: 2004/04/09 18:25:47 $

  # $Revision: 1.2 $

  #

  # DESCRIPTION:

  # Makefile for Borland C++ 5.5 for Python interface

  #

   

  .AUTODEPEND

   

  !include ..\makedef.bcc

   

  PYTHONDIR = c:\python23

   

  EXTRACPPFLAGS = -v -I$(PYTHONDIR)\include -I$(BCCDIR)\include -I.. -D__BCC55__

  EXTRALINKFLAGS = 

   

  CFG = ..\gambit32.cfg

   

  OPT = -Od

   

  .cxx.obj:

        bcc32 $(CPPFLAGS) -P -c {$< }

   

  LIBS=gambit $(PYTHONDIR)\libs\python23_bcpp.lib import32 cw32mt

   

  LINKFLAGS= /Tpd /Gn /q /x  /L$(BCCDIR)\lib;.. $(EXTRALINKFLAGS)

  OPT = -Od

  DEBUG_FLAGS=

   

  CPPFLAGS= $(WXINC) $(EXTRACPPFLAGS) $(OPT) @$(CFG)

   

  all:  gbt

   

  gbt:    gbt_wrap.obj 

    ilink32 $(LINKFLAGS) @&&!

  c0d32.obj gbt_wrap.obj

  _gbt.pyd

  nul

  $(LIBS)

  gbt.def

   

  !

   

  SWIGFILES = \

      behav.i \

      game.i \

      gbt.i \

      infoset.i \

      mixed.i \

      nash.i \

      node.i \

      outcome.i \

      player.i \

      rational.i

   

  gbt_wrap.cxx:   $(SWIGFILES)

          swig -c++ -python gbt.i

   

   

  clean:

          -erase *.obj

          -erase *.exe

          -erase *.res

          -erase *.map

          -erase *.rws

   

   

  ==Error=====

   

  C:\Temp\Gambit 09712\gambit-0.97.1.2\sources\python>make -f borland

  MAKE Version 5.2  Copyright (c) 1987, 2000 Borland

          ilink32 /Tpd /Gn /q /x /LC:\BORLAND\BCC55\lib;..  @MAKE0000.@@@

  Fatal: Unable to open file 'PYTHON23_BCPP.LIB'











  see here or in the site:



  http://www.tismer.com/research/stackless/binaries-pc/python23_d.dll.zip

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From jcarlson at uci.edu  Tue Apr 20 21:34:38 2004
From: jcarlson at uci.edu (Josiah Carlson)
Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 18:34:38 -0700
Subject: wxListCtrl with CheckBox?
In-Reply-To: <30260531.0404201020.58660a46@posting.google.com>
References: <30260531.0404092256.6b58e3a1@posting.google.com>
	<c59hmk$gru$2@news.service.uci.edu>
	<30260531.0404201020.58660a46@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <c64ja6$h88$1@news.service.uci.edu>


>>Use wx.Grid, it can place checkboxes in cells.
> 
> I can't get that to work either, and I certainly can't get the grid
> cells to line up with the listctrl rows anyway.
> 
> This is really holding up my program now, to move on any further I
> really need some way of having a checkbox at the end of every row of a
> few listctrl's.
> 
> I can't believe this hasn't already been written - someone must have
> needed to have a "delete row" checkbox or button in a report
> before.....
> 
> The only thing I can think of now is some sort of dynamic GridSizer
> that works out the position of every row, but that's really nasty.

What I meant was that you should replace your listctrl with a wx.Grid 
instance.  You can emulate every bit of functionality (except perhaps 
the row-selection) of a listctrl with a Grid.  You just need to rewrite 
the subclass properly.

In terms of being /able/ to have checkboxes in the Grid, check out the 
wxPython demo, it has an example with a checkbox in a cell.

  - Josiah


From fun.duk at rogers.com  Tue Apr 27 21:17:02 2004
From: fun.duk at rogers.com (Funduk)
Date: 27 Apr 2004 18:17:02 -0700
Subject: PY2EXE - Strange Things a-Happenin
Message-ID: <7490e644.0404271717.28a4c7b4@posting.google.com>

Hello,

So I've been playing with Python and Pygame for a while and I decided
I wanted to make a real executable so I could send that stuff over to
my friends to show off my <sarcasm>maad skillz</sarcasm>.

Everything was going great I went and got all the newest software
(including Distutils and PY2EXE) and read the docs on making a setup
py.

Following is my setup.py: Sorry if It's a little long:
---------------------------------------------------------
#make standalone, needs at least pygame-1.5.3 and py2exe-0.3.1

from distutils.core import setup
import sys, os, pygame, shutil
import py2exe

#setup the project variables here.
#i can't claim these will cover all the cases
#you need, but they seem to work for all my
#projects, just change as neeeded.

script = "cards.py"	    	#name of starting .PY
icon_file = ""	    	    	#ICO file for the .EXE (not working well)
optimize = 2 	    	    	#0, 1, or 2; like -O and -OO
dos_console = 0     	    	#set to 0 for no dos shell when run
extra_data = ['readme.txt'] #extra files/dirs copied to game
extra_modules = ['pygame.locals']   #extra python modules not auto
found

#use the default pygame icon, if none given
if not icon_file:
    path = os.path.split(pygame.__file__)[0]
    icon_file = '"' + os.path.join(path, 'pygame.ico') + '"'
#unfortunately, this cool icon stuff doesn't work in current py2exe :(
#icon_file = ''


#create the proper commandline args
args = ['py2exe', '--force', '-O'+`optimize`]
args.append(dos_console and '--console' or '--windows')
if icon_file:
    args.append('--icon')
    args.append(icon_file)
args.append('--force-imports')
args.append(','.join(extra_modules))
#args.append(','.join(pygame_modules + extra_modules))
sys.argv[1:] = args + sys.argv[1:]

project_name = os.path.splitext(os.path.split(script)[1])[0]


#this will create the executable and all dependencies
setup(name=project_name, scripts=[script])

#also need to hand copy the extra files here
def installfile(name):
    dst = os.path.join('dist', project_name)
    print 'copying', name, '->', dst
    if os.path.isdir(name):
        dst = os.path.join(dst, name)
        if os.path.isdir(dst):
            shutil.rmtree(dst)
        shutil.copytree(name, dst)
    elif os.path.isfile(name):
        shutil.copy(name, dst)
    else:
        print 'Warning, %s not found' % name

pygamedir = os.path.split(pygame.base.__file__)[0]
installfile(os.path.join(pygamedir, pygame.font.get_default_font()))
installfile(os.path.join(pygamedir, 'pygame_icon.bmp'))
for data in extra_data:
    installfile(data)
---------------------------------------------------------

I got this from some 'here's how to make a setupfile site'. I started
using this one after the one I made caused me errors... Unfortunately
this one does the same.

I'm using IDLE (but I did also try this in the cmd prompt) so I got
ahead and F5 this setup file and it goes ahead and haks away for a few
seconds (on my pos pII 450). Shortly I recieve this block of
statements and errors:

Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "C:\Documents and Settings\Administrator\My
Documents\Projects\Pygame Projects\Cards\pygame2exe.py", line 48, in
-toplevel-
    setup(name=project_name, scripts=[script])
  File "C:\DOCUME~1\ADMINI~1\MYDOCU~1\Projects\Python\distutils\core.py",
line 101, in setup
    _setup_distribution = dist = klass(attrs)
  File "C:\DOCUME~1\ADMINI~1\MYDOCU~1\Projects\Python\Lib\site-packages\py2exe\__init__.py",
line 75, in __init__
    distutils.dist.Distribution.__init__(self, attrs)
  File "C:\DOCUME~1\ADMINI~1\MYDOCU~1\Projects\Python\distutils\dist.py",
line 130, in __init__
    setattr(self, method_name, getattr(self.metadata, method_name))
AttributeError: DistributionMetadata instance has no attribute
'get___doc__'


I looked up the last line in google and found a few posts noting the
same difficulties and I was led to believe that it was some kind of
'mistake'...

...

needless to say I was confused. I decided I could write a pretty good
cry for help (including lots of info etc) so I am now asking you for
help.

All I want to do is make my stupid little program an executable! :)
HELP!!!

Extra Info:
Python Version:2.3.3
Pygame Version:1.6
Distutils Version:1.0.2
PY2EXE Version:0.5.0
OS: Windows 2000 Pro

Thanks in advance!!!


From arosado at softhome.net  Fri Apr  2 22:27:55 2004
From: arosado at softhome.net (Andres Rosado-Sepulveda)
Date: Fri, 02 Apr 2004 22:27:55 -0500
Subject: Why '==' ??
In-Reply-To: <8089854e.0403312324.7de8710c@posting.google.com>
References: <mailman.124.1080662765.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<8089854e.0403302319.1ab56af0@posting.google.com>
	<c4e0d2$o4u$1@arcturus.ciril.fr>
	<8089854e.0403312324.7de8710c@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <c4l7d0$2jdkuu$1@ID-203388.news.uni-berlin.de>

Fuzzyman wrote:
[snip]

> Actually I think python is fine - just pointing out a couple of
> features of syntax that seemed unnecessary.
> 
> In actual fact I accept the explanation for '==' it was a 'feature' of
> language that I didn't realise existed.
> 
> (Like 
> a = value or default
> which I discovered recently... very useful in certain circumstances).
> 
> Having said that I *Still* think that :
> 
> if a = 3:
> is unambiguous - so there's no real reason that the interpreter should
> wag it's finger and say ... "you forgot to put in one of the '=' and I
> refuse to continue until you do" :-)

The main factor, IIRC, was not that the interpreter couldn't get the 
meaning by context, as you propose, but of readability.

-- 
Andres Rosado
Email: andresr at despammed.com
Homepage: http://andres980.tripod.com/

It's a good thing we have gravity or else when birds died they'd just
stay right up there.  Hunters would be all confused.
         -- Stephen Wright


From max at alcyone.com  Fri Apr  2 01:08:11 2004
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Thu, 01 Apr 2004 22:08:11 -0800
Subject: Stackless Website down, Project gone, I'm dead.
References: <mailman.257.1080885541.20120.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <406D034B.80E4B285@alcyone.com>

"Eric @ Zomething" wrote:

> Well, Christian's post was sent April 2nd (per the header), but it
> arrived here April 1st.  I have little notion of the time-space
> groundrules for April Fools over the Internet continuum, but I hope
> this was a joke; perhaps (-1*(-1*(joke))).

Where I come from, April Fool's jokes aren't any good if you explicitly
disclaim that it's not a joke and it really is after all.  So if it's an
April Fool's joke, it's a terrible one.

-- 
 __ Erik Max Francis && max at alcyone.com && http://www.alcyone.com/max/
/  \ San Jose, CA, USA && 37 20 N 121 53 W && AIM erikmaxfrancis
\__/ Do not stand in a place of danger trusting in miracles.
    -- (an Arab proverb)


From dmq at gain.com  Fri Apr 30 11:19:50 2004
From: dmq at gain.com (David MacQuigg)
Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2004 08:19:50 -0700
Subject: Ideas for Python 3
References: <s1pt80h988ucqd8vbrd3occhpagtpssigg@4ax.com>
	<onrt805i8q1qv5amhk06pqpe8umm9i7mhc@4ax.com>
	<c6mtgm$e09bj$1@ID-88904.news.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <n9q490hbe2a2mp65e5rh59eb97r2k1b9hn@4ax.com>

On Wed, 28 Apr 2004 02:22:55 +0200, Michael Walter <cm at leetspeak.org>
wrote:

>David MacQuigg wrote:
> > [...]
>> It took me a long time to realize that lamdas have only one advantage
>> over named functions - they can be crammed into a tight space.  Here
>> is an example:
>> 
>> L = [(lambda x: x**2), (lambda x:x**3), (lambda x:x**4), (lambda
>> x:x**5)]
>> 
>> If the purpose is to save space, wouldn't this be better as:
>> 
>> L = [:x:x**2, :x:x**3, :x:x**4 :x:x**5]
>   L = map(lambda x: lambda y: x**y,range(2,6))
>
>Almost. Or write mapc ("map currying") and have:
>
>   L = mapc(pow,range(2,6))
>
>Shorter than your example, less mistake-prone, no obvious lambda at all ;)

The problem with this suggestion ( and many other similar uses of
existing functions ) is that it relies on a regular mathematical
sequence.  Think of a more general case, something like:

L = [:x:x**2, :x:x+4, :x:x/5, :x:2-x, :x:x*7 ]

I would like to get some feedback on the more general questions:

Q1) Is it worth having a "lambda" syntax like this, or should we just
deprecate lambda functions entirely and use:

def f1(x): return x**2
def f2(x): return x+4
def f3(x): return x/5
def f4(x): return 2-x
def f5(x): return x*7
L = [ f1, f2, f3, f4, f5 ]

Q2) Will it help new users to have the "lambda" syntax be as close as
possible to a normal function definition?  i.e.

f :(x): return x**2  # a simple function
:x:x**2              # equivalent lambda expression

-- or --

f = def(x): return x**2
def x:x**2

I am especially interested in feedback from users who have recently
learned Python.  I suspect that many experienced users will have long
forgotten any difficulties they had while learning.

-- Dave



From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Mon Apr  5 00:42:19 2004
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 5 Apr 2004 00:42:19 -0400
Subject: Difference between default arguments and keyword arguments
References: <UmTbc.9904$NL4.4809@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net>
	<406FFEAF.3080400@netscape.net>
	<c4p4ld$2j1tnb$2@ID-165840.news.uni-berlin.de>
	<mailman.330.1081101671.20120.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <c4qo3b$qi6$1@panix1.panix.com>

In article <mailman.330.1081101671.20120.python-list at python.org>,
Paul Prescod  <paul at prescod.net> wrote:
>
>Functions implemented in C do not always have the property that every 
>argument is a keyword argument. Functions implemented in Python do have 
>that property. It's an implementation quirk.

Really?

    def foo(*args):
        pass

    foo(x=1)

Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "x.py", line 4, in ?
    foo(x=1)
TypeError: foo() got an unexpected keyword argument 'x'
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

"usenet imitates usenet"  --Darkhawk


From huggiepython at graffiti.idv.tw  Tue Apr  6 06:00:33 2004
From: huggiepython at graffiti.idv.tw (Timothy Wu)
Date: Tue, 06 Apr 2004 18:00:33 +0800
Subject: A beginner's question on thread
In-Reply-To: <c4tpu2$2ma1ft$1@ID-50400.news.uni-berlin.de>
References: <mailman.382.1081232119.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<c4tpu2$2ma1ft$1@ID-50400.news.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <40727FC1.4060802@graffiti.idv.tw>

Aurelio Martin wrote:

> Well, when the user wants to exit, the main thread could open a socket 
> connection to the server thread, and send a special message telling it 
> to stop.
> 
> The server thread would have to distinguish between normal connections 
> from clients and special connections from the main thread.
> 
> Hope this helps
> 
>     Aurelio

I've thought about doing that and I thought that was more of a hack.
Is it the proper way to handle it?

Timothy



From erlendga at tva.ifi.uio.no  Fri Apr  2 05:55:38 2004
From: erlendga at tva.ifi.uio.no (Erlend Andreas Garberg)
Date: Fri, 2 Apr 2004 10:55:38 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Travelling salesman variation in python
References: <slrnc6on9h.spl.erlendga@tva.ifi.uio.no>
	<c4ho3l$4he$1@news.service.uci.edu>
	<slrnc6op8l.spl.erlendga@tva.ifi.uio.no>
	<c4ialj$mcq$1@news.service.uci.edu>
Message-ID: <slrnc6qhla.spl.erlendga@tva.ifi.uio.no>

In article <c4ialj$mcq$1 at news.service.uci.edu>, Josiah Carlson wrote:
> One approximate solution to the TSP is the bitonic TSP.  That is, start 
> at the leftmost point, find a path to the rightmost point, then find a 
> return path to the leftmost point.

The problem is that all nodes are connected to all the other nodes, and 
the weights are in essence random.. So it won't be possible to find 
leftmost/rightmost point.

--
mvh
Erlend Garberg
erlendga at ifi.uio.no



From paul at prescod.net  Sun Apr 11 23:45:14 2004
From: paul at prescod.net (Paul Prescod)
Date: Sun, 11 Apr 2004 20:45:14 -0700
Subject: Python is the best and most popular general purpose scripting
In-Reply-To: <20040411170707.13360.00000139@mb-m18.aol.com>
References: <mailman.525.1081698252.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<20040411170707.13360.00000139@mb-m18.aol.com>
Message-ID: <407A10CA.9040805@prescod.net>

PiedmontBiz wrote:

>...
> 
> I have the answer. Scripts are concatenated sequences of instructions to the
> computer operating system to perfom a certain task. The script I create for my
> own purposes and my own personal use (or my work group) will always be known as
> a script.
> If my script is needed and used by others (outside my workgroup), it will now
> be called an application. The source code of applications is not changed by the
> user.

So then the same language is both a scripting language and an 
application development language?

Remember that the goal is to classify _languages_, not programs.

  Paul Prescod





From martin at v.loewis.de  Tue Apr 13 17:43:30 2004
From: martin at v.loewis.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?=22Martin_v=2E_L=F6wis=22?=)
Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2004 23:43:30 +0200
Subject: Does Python compete with Java?
In-Reply-To: <mailman.585.1081876373.20120.python-list@python.org>
References: <8b336527.0404051337.51bb4a1b@posting.google.com>	<c4taac$2lg0bc$1@ID-169208.news.uni-berlin.de>	<e838aa6e.0404071426.7192e8e4@posting.google.com>	<slrnc79idf.hij.ramen@lackingtalent.com>	<e838aa6e.0404130748.1d8e1ddf@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.585.1081876373.20120.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <c5hmtq$6eh$06$1@news.t-online.com>

Jakub Fast wrote:
  > would having the possibility of using
> 
> def static mymethod():
> 
> instead of the standard = staticmethod(...) do anything bad to python as 
> it is? 

In Python, people actually use static methods much less frequently than
in, say, Java - there is absolutely no problem with having global
functions (rather than class-static methods) most of the time. This is
partially due to the fact that static methods did not exist for a long
time.

However, this issue is being considered. Most likely, the new syntax
will read

     [staticmethod]
     def mymethod():
         ...

The debate is only about where the [staticmethod] should go. Solutions
introducing new keywords are not acceptable. See PEP 318 for details

 > Same question goes for something along the lines  of
> __operator__['='] (self, etc).

Overloading assignment will never happen, for two reasons:
- assignment is not an operator, but a statement
- assignment does not modify an object, atleast not in the
   form

     variable = value

   (in the form object.variable=value, it does modify object,
   and you can overload the assignment by implementing __setattr__
   or using by using properties)

> On quite another note, is it possible to define your own operators in 
> python?

No, it isn't. People would not like it because it looks like line noise.

> nothing can beat 
> the intuitive appeal of
> 
> S ==> (NP and VP) or VP
> 
> over CFGProduction(S, NP, VP), CFGProduction(S, VP) for specifying your 
> simple cfg, dcg or ebnf rules if you're completely new to programming 
> and have just been given a programming assignment :)

With several years of computing experience, I cannot understand neither
notation without some background. They look like a logical implication
to me, but I'm uncertain whether you are aiming at an assertion to be
tested, or merely at the grammatical structure.

If it is the structure, you should be able to write this as

   S.implies(NP.and_(VP).or_(VP))

(assuming I have the grouping of your logical notation right - I have
troubles guessing whether ==> or `or? should have higher precedence)

Regards,
Martin



From lbates at swamisoft.com  Wed Apr 28 11:01:53 2004
From: lbates at swamisoft.com (Larry Bates)
Date: Wed, 28 Apr 2004 10:01:53 -0500
Subject: String formatting (%)
References: <e567c03a.0404280035.79d0d973@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <IK-dnaIZIYTCWhLdRVn-vg@comcast.com>

Pascal,

Here is a function that I had that does what you want.
Warning-If the floats get very large it breaks down.

Larry Bates
Syscon, Inc.

def fmt_wspaces(amount):
    #
    # This function will take the number passed to it and format it with
    # spaces as thousands separators.
    #
    # If I got zero return zero (0.00)
    #
    if not amount: return '0.00'
    #
    # Handle negative numbers
    #
    if amount < 0: sign="-"
    else:          sign=""
    #
    # Split into fractional and whole parts
    #
    whole_part=abs(long(amount))
    fractional_part=abs(amount)-whole_part
    #
    # Convert to string
    #
    temp="%i" % whole_part
    #
    # Convert the digits to a list
    #
    digits=list(temp)
    #
    # Calculate the pad length to fill out a complete thousand and add
    # the pad characters (space(s)) to the beginning of the string.
    #
    padchars=3-(len(digits)%3)
    if padchars != 3: digits=tuple(padchars*[' ']+digits)
    else:             digits=tuple(digits)
    #
    # Create the mask for formatting the string
    #
    sections=len(digits)/3
    mask=sections*" %s%s%s"
    if _debug > 2: logf.writelines("D","mask=%s" % mask)
    outstring=mask % digits
    #
    # Drop off the leading space and add back the sign
    #
    outstring=sign+outstring[1:].lstrip()
    #
    # Add back the fractional part
    #
    outstring+="%.2f" % fractional_part
    #
    return outstring

if __name__=="__main__":

    print "----------testing negative floats------------------------------"
    sign=-1
    invalue=0L
    for j in range(2):
        for i in range(1,10):
            invalue=invalue*10+i
            print fmt_wspaces(float(sign*invalue)-.01)

    print "----------testing positive floats------------------------------"
    sign=1
    invalue=0L
    for j in range(2):
        for i in range(1,10):
            invalue=invalue*10+i
            print fmt_wspaces(float(sign*invalue)+.01)



"Pascal" <pascal.parent at free.fr> wrote in message
news:e567c03a.0404280035.79d0d973 at posting.google.com...
> Hello,
> I've a float number 123456789.01 and, I'de like to format it like this
> "123 456 789.01".
> Is this possible with % character?




From pascal.parent at free.fr  Wed Apr 14 10:35:01 2004
From: pascal.parent at free.fr (Pascal)
Date: 14 Apr 2004 07:35:01 -0700
Subject: Bug in eval function?
Message-ID: <e567c03a.0404140635.95a208b@posting.google.com>

>>> eval('88200')
88200
>>> eval('00088200')

Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<pyshell#11>", line 1, in -toplevel-
    eval('00088200')
  File "<string>", line 1
    00088200
           ^
SyntaxError: invalid token
>>>


From stewartconnor at aol.com  Mon Apr 19 14:41:39 2004
From: stewartconnor at aol.com (Stewart Connor)
Date: Mon, 19 Apr 2004 18:41:39 GMT
Subject: Call for an Impeachment Inquiry of Bush and Cheney
Message-ID: <9b2bc8a3.02237510@host-69-48-73-244.roc.choiceone.net>

Call for an Impeachment Inquiry of Bush and Cheney, 
Get Congress to Take Action

Sign our online Petition and read below for more information:
   
   http://www.votenader.org/get_involved/impeach.php

HEY DUDE WHERE'S MY BUDDY!!!???
COME BACK HOME MICHAEL!!!

Ok Michael, you've had your realpolitik fling with ex-General Wesley
Clark. Your endorsed Presidential candidate in the Democratic Primaries
has withdrawn. It is time for you to come home, to join your buddies and
resume your only genuine role which is that of defiance and resistance.
Compliance and assistance with the Democrats does not accord with your
past, your character, your bold writings and, most memorably, your long
corrosive assaults on the Party that betrayed the working classes and
plunged our country into corporate globalization. Remember, Michael,
you're the flinty man from Flint, Michigan. You've never forgotten your
roots. The heady Hollywood, Manhattan scene with the celebrities and
Academy Awards have never gotten to your head but rather have gotten
into your deserving pockets. How we all recall your standing before one
billion people in Los Angeles at the televised Academy Awards in 2003
and, breaking the customary cant of the awardees, throwing the gauntlet
down to George W. Bush and his "fictitious" war mongering. 

Now the War has become a quagmire, with both Republicans and Democrats
complicit (check the votes in Congress). The Draft may be on the way. So
what are you doing going on the Al Franken Show very nearly breaking
down when Al Gore (he of the pro NAFTA/GATT, anti-worker, regime-change,
Iraq-bombing, lethal sanctions on half a million children
Administration) called and thought you were apologizing. You have
nothing to apologize for, Michael. Gore has a lot to apologize
for-blowing the election he won in Florida and the country as a whole
and for blowing, with Bill Clinton, the many opportunities the
rich-booming Nineties and the collapse of the Soviet Union gave this
country to turn a peace dividend into a pro-worker, pro-environment,
pro-consumer and anti-poverty resurgence. 

Come back and join our Presidential campaign, Michael. Talk to those
"Reagan Democrats"-those 35% of union members who still vote Republican
and against their own interests-as only you can. Michael, if you go
pumping for the Democratic Party this year, just what are you going to
say to the unemployed steelworkers near Sparrows Point in Maryland? To
the megathousands of laid off textile and furniture workers in North and
South Carolina? To the abandoned auto workers waiting and waiting near
their empty factories that went to repressive countries? To the millions
of blue-collar workers, who fought our wars, only to learn that the two
parties won't fight for their company pensions and health insurance? Are
you going to tell them how the Democratic Party pushed through the WTO,
let their pensions erode or disappear, were too busy collecting checks
from the corporate bosses to pay attention to the corporate crime wave
that looted and drained trillions of dollars from millions of workers,
their retirement and small investments? Will you tell them that the
cowardly Democrats, who couldn't win the fewer elections they are now
not losing without the labor vote, won't even mount a determined drive
to repeal the notorious, union-blocking Taft Hartley Act? 

How can you be free to be what you are, or to depress Bush's vote, to
jolt into consciousness the moribund Democratic Party? 

Hey Dude, join your real buddies! The ones you may be thinking about
just don't fit either your message, your vision, or our website
VoteNader.org. 

Come back home Michael. The workers and the youth of America are looking
for you. 

Best regards, 
Ralph Nader 


P.S. Will you put this invitation on your website and see how your fans
     react to Michael Moore returning to the Nader 2004 presidential
     campaign? Patti Smith will reserve a big singing spot, for you, on the
     stage for the customary finale, PEOPLE HAVE THE POWER. 


Wednesday April 14, 2004 

Join the Call for an Impeachment Inquiry of Bush and Cheney
Help us Get Congress to Take Action

You can help the call for an impeachment inquiry of President Bush and
Vice President Dick Cheney. Sign our online Petition.

   http://www.votenader.org/get_involved/impeach.php


George W. Bush and Dick Cheney should be impeached for two reasons: 

   They led the United States into an illegal, unconstitutional war in Iraq. 
   They misled the Congress and the American people with five falsehoods that led to war. 

All it takes is one Member of the House of Representatives to call for
an Impeachment Inquiry to start the process to investigate the two
grounds. If the House then votes by a simple majority for Articles of
Impeachment, the Senate would then undertake a trial of the President
and Vice President. They would only be convicted, and impeached, if
two-thirds of the Senate agrees. 

--


has cemented alliances with bona fide radical organizations like the
Interreligious Foundation for Community Organization, Women's International
League for Peace and Freedom and the Revolutionary Communist Party.

Not In Our Name:  What is IFCO?

Not In Our Name (NION) requests donations on its website, yet on this site
donors are asked to make checks payable to NION/IFCO. IFCO is the acronym
for the Interreligious Foundation for Community Organization. NION states
that the " Interreligous Foundation for Community Organization (IFCO). is
our fiscal sponsor." Fiscal sponsorship by IFCO means Not In Our Name
receives donations that are tax deductible because of IFCO's 501c(3)
(charitable, federal tax-exempt) status. IFCO charges a fee for this
service.

Why is NION not a 501c(3)?

Donations to NION/IFCO are then mailed to the Women's International League
for Peace and Freedom (WILPF), which is located at 339 Lafayette Street in
New York City. The address is the same as NION's. The intimate nature of a
financial partnership shows how closely aligned these two organizations are.
And that's scary, because the Women's International League for Peace and
Freedom h




From wallclimber21 at hotmail.com  Wed Apr 28 10:47:18 2004
From: wallclimber21 at hotmail.com (Wallclimber)
Date: 28 Apr 2004 07:47:18 -0700
Subject: Is Perl *that* good?
References: <c6ich0$c5mee$1@ID-205437.news.uni-berlin.de>	<iL3jc.232$Yc.2330@news4.e.nsc.no>	<108q51j4dscn7dc@corp.supernews.com>	<knbjc.267$id.3998@news2.e.nsc.no>	<pan.2004.04.26.20.50.19.843510@hotmail.com>	<87fzaqmm8t.fsf@strauser.com>	<38ec68a6.0404262308.50029919@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.49.1083084698.25742.python-list@python.org>
	<cbfb92ae.0404272203.2ff42c98@posting.google.com>
	<c6nks0$l3i$02$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <cbfb92ae.0404280647.6868c536@posting.google.com>

Peter Otten <__peter__ at web.de> wrote in message news:<c6nks0$l3i$02$1 at news.t-online.com>...
> Wallclimber wrote:
> 
> Your example suggests that the Python equivalent for $1 is \1:
> 
> >>> re.sub(r"(\w+)\s*=\s*(\d+)", r"\2 <= \1", "a=1 b = 3 c = d")
> '1 <= a 3 <= b c = d'

I feel very stupid now. I've switched from Perl to Python about 3
years ago and always *dreaded* the used of regexen. I basically relied
on the online help to learn to use it and became convinced that I
*had* to use group.

Well, I've learned something now then. Thanks a lot!

Tom Verbeure


From walter at livinglogic.de  Fri Apr  2 05:12:39 2004
From: walter at livinglogic.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Walter_D=F6rwald?=)
Date: Fri, 02 Apr 2004 12:12:39 +0200
Subject: HTML writer
In-Reply-To: <yL9bc.45202$wH3.33614@newssvr25.news.prodigy.com>
References: <yL9bc.45202$wH3.33614@newssvr25.news.prodigy.com>
Message-ID: <406D3C97.7020006@livinglogic.de>

Moosebumps wrote:

> Is there a standard solution for writing HTML web pages with Python?  I
> don't know that much about web programming, but basically I want to generate
> some internal reports on a web page.

There are several possible HTML generators for Python:
HTMLgen http://starship.python.net/crew/friedrich/HTMLgen/html/main.html
HyperText http://dustman.net/andy/python/HyperText/
XIST http://www.livinglogic.de/Python/xist/

> [...]
> I know there newer things like CSS and XHTML -- are these more or less
> effort to generate?  i.e. are they more complicated, or do they have more
> uniform syntax?  What do they necessarily buy you?

You can do more styling with CSS than you can do with HTML.

 > [...]

Bye,
    Walter D?rwald



From ny_r_marquez at yahoo.com  Fri Apr 16 09:35:00 2004
From: ny_r_marquez at yahoo.com (R.Marquez)
Date: 16 Apr 2004 06:35:00 -0700
Subject: (For gurus) Embed functions in webpages like in PHP?
References: <5eq4l1-9vm.ln1@pilz.hasos.com>
Message-ID: <8a27e309.0404160534.696d1392@posting.google.com>

Robert Ferber <rob at nospam.net> wrote in message news:<5eq4l1-9vm.ln1 at pilz.hasos.com>...
> 
> As far as I've seen, there is no way to embed Python-code in a webpage with
> "<? ?>" or anything equivalent and I don't see any other way to solve this
> problem.
> 
> But maybe somebody else does, I'd apreceate all ideas,
> 
> Thanks a lot

Funny you ask.  See here:

http://www.onlamp.com/pub/a/python/2004/02/26/python_server_pages.html

Enjoy!

-Ruben


From python at rcn.com  Tue Apr  6 20:12:37 2004
From: python at rcn.com (Raymond Hettinger)
Date: 6 Apr 2004 17:12:37 -0700
Subject: int('2.1') does not work while int(float('2.1')) does
References: <mailman.376.1081213637.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<40722555.66C70D40@alcyone.com>
	<slrnc74a1l.bqf.joe@gate.notcharles.ca>
	<cCqcAls/K3rL089yn@the-wire.com>
Message-ID: <5d83790c.0404061612.2033ff37@posting.google.com>

My vote for QOTW:

>    You could argue that unit testing, the universal solvent,
> would clean up this too.


Raymond


From PeterAbel at gmx.net  Wed Apr  7 04:06:04 2004
From: PeterAbel at gmx.net (Peter Abel)
Date: 7 Apr 2004 01:06:04 -0700
Subject: Tkinter: cut'n'paste from DISABLED window?
References: <c4vm3g$b2d$1@news.Stanford.EDU>
Message-ID: <21064255.0404070006.269dd339@posting.google.com>

"Patrick L. Nolan" <pln at cosmic.stanford.edu> wrote in message news:<c4vm3g$b2d$1 at news.Stanford.EDU>...
> Our Tkinter application has a big ScrolledText widget which is
> a log of everything that happens.  In order to prevent people
> from making changes, we have it in DISABLED mode except when
> the program wants to write a new entry.  This works OK, except
> that sometimes we want to copy out of piece of the contents and
> paste it in another window.  When it's DISABLED, it appears
> that we can't even select a portion of the text.
> 
> Is this an either-or situation?  Or is there some clever way to
> get around it?
> 
> If it matters, we want this to work on both Linux and Windows.

The question is if you really need a Tkinter.Text-widget or if a
Tkinter.Listbox would satisfy your wishes. Then you could program
a scrollable Listbox as the following example:

    # Vertical scrollbar for listbox
    vscroll=Tkinter.Scrollbar(self,orient='vertical')
    vscroll.grid(row=3,rowspan=10,column=11,sticky='ns')

    # horizontal scrollbar for listbox
    hscroll=Tkinter.Scrollbar(self,orient='horizontal')
    hscroll.grid(row=13,column=2,columnspan=9,sticky='ew')

    # Listbox
    self.msgBox=Tkinter.Listbox(self,
                                bg='white',
                                relief='sunken',
                                xscrollcommand=hscroll.set,
                                yscrollcommand=vscroll.set,
                                )
    self.msgBox.grid(row=3,rowspan=10,column=2,columnspan=9,sticky='nesw')

    hscroll.configure(command=self.msgBox.xview)
    vscroll.configure(command=self.msgBox.yview)


Then bind to all widgets to the event-function for Cntrl-C:

    self.bind_all('<Control-KeyPress-c>',self.Copy)

Where the Copy-function could look as follows:

  #-----------------------------------
  def Copy (self, *event):
  #-----------------------------------
    """
      Copies selected lines in the Listbox to Cilpboard

      @para event:            Dummy-parameter
      @type event:            list
      @return:                None
      @rtype:                 NN
    """
    if self.msgBox.size():
      cs=self.msgBox.curselection()
      if cs:
        # Overwirte the clipboardcontent
        self.msgBox.clipboard_clear()
        for lineno in cs:
          self.msgBox.clipboard_append(self.msgBox.get(lineno)+'\n')

I use the above example in the same app under W2kprof and HP-UX and
it works fine.

Regards
Peter


From peter at semantico.com  Tue Apr  6 11:08:30 2004
From: peter at semantico.com (Peter Hickman)
Date: Tue, 06 Apr 2004 16:08:30 +0100
Subject: design by contract versus doctest
In-Reply-To: <opr51ffat9yxrafp@nntphost.dur.ac.uk>
References: <407174ea$0$5066$4d4ebb8e@news.nl.uu.net>
	<4072977b$0$1699$afc38c87@news.easynet.co.uk>
	<opr51bkaaeyxrafp@nntphost.dur.ac.uk>
	<4072a7d3$0$23314$afc38c87@news.easynet.co.uk>
	<opr51ffat9yxrafp@nntphost.dur.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <4072c7f0$0$23294$afc38c87@news.easynet.co.uk>

Colin Blackburn wrote:
> Aku is correct, no checks are (necessarily) made by the function in  
> installed code. It is the caller's responsibility to satisfy the  
> pre-conditions.

True but the caller does not check the pre-conditions, that is done in 
the called. The called does not trust the caller to get things right, 
hence the contract.

> In the installed code the pre-conditions are not necessarily 
> implemented  therefore the function cannot refuse to run since it does 
> not know its  pre-condition at this stage.

I can think of no good reason to turn off checking of the pre and post 
conditions unless you can guarantee that the live system will never 
encounter a combination of inputs and states that have not already been 
tested for. You hardly need DbC for such hubris.

>> Getting the require section to pass is no guarantee that the  
>> post-conditions (ensure section) will be met, the do section is code  
>> like anything else and may get things wrong.
> 
> In correctly developed DbC that is precisely what is guaranteed. The  
> post-condition is *guaranteed* if the pre-condition is met. It is a 
> design  tool.

Not sure I would want to state that, or rely on it. I would only go as 
far as saying what I have tested is guaranteed. But then I am paranoid.


From claird at lairds.com  Mon Apr  5 10:07:05 2004
From: claird at lairds.com (Cameron Laird)
Date: Mon, 05 Apr 2004 14:07:05 -0000
Subject: python processes names
References: <f6554b84.0404050308.7980080@posting.google.com>
	<ezdcc.188803$_w.1870414@attbi_s53>
Message-ID: <1072q092s20mhb4@corp.supernews.com>

In article <ezdcc.188803$_w.1870414 at attbi_s53>,
djw  <dwelch91 at comcast.net> wrote:
>Sylwia wrote:
>> Hi!
>> 
>> How to make python programs show up by name is ps (e.g ps -e). By
>> default if  we have many different python processes running
>> simultaneously, then we can only see python python python for three
>> different python processes. I would much rather see
>> first_python_program_name.py, second_python_program_name.py and
>> third_python_program_name.py listed by ps. Is that possible without
>> downloading and installing any non-standard modules?
>> 
>> Thank you in advance,
>> 
>> Best wishes,
>> 
>> Sylwia
>
>You could use proctitle:
>
>https://ftp.psychosis.com:4302/python/
>
>-Don

Two points worth mentioning about proctitle:
1.  "Proctitle is a Python2.X module to manipulate
    the raw 'argv[]' contents of a python process."
2.  It's pure-Python.
-- 

Cameron Laird <claird at phaseit.net>
Business:  http://www.Phaseit.net


From jbperez808 at yahoo.com  Mon Apr  5 01:50:10 2004
From: jbperez808 at yahoo.com (Jon Perez)
Date: Mon, 05 Apr 2004 13:50:10 +0800
Subject: Why is there no PyInt_AsInt() ?
Message-ID: <c4qrls$2l99nd$1@ID-180326.news.uni-berlin.de>

...and instead down-cast the result of PyInt_AsLong() when
the PyObject was an integer in the first place??


From newsgroups at jhrothjr.com  Sat Apr 17 21:38:09 2004
From: newsgroups at jhrothjr.com (John Roth)
Date: Sat, 17 Apr 2004 21:38:09 -0400
Subject: campaining for PEP 238 - integer division
References: <f445a2fe.0404171659.60992eff@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <1083n0ts19uvsa6@news.supernews.com>

"Sebastian Haase" <seb_haase at yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:f445a2fe.0404171659.60992eff at posting.google.com...
> Hi,
> I'm interested in having more people in our lab using numarray/NumPy
> instead of MatLab. For that I have put together a couple useful
> modules and written many myself. But then I got reminded of a new /
> upcoming feature of Python:
> "2/3 == 1.5"  AKA PEP 238.
> I'm very interested in putting lots of
> "from __future__ import division"
> lines into my code especially since numarray (the new NumPy) now
> supports it.
>
> QUESTION: Is this new/upcoming feature of Python mentioned enough ?
> Like in the Python tutorial  or mailing lists ...
> A google groups search for "python 238 integer OR division"  was
> giving me one relevant result from Jan2004, another one from May2003,
> all else even older !!!

According to the current version of the PEP, that change won't
happen until sometime in the misty future with version 3.0. That
release is scheduled to break lots of things, not just this one.

The PEP contains recommendations for cushioning the shock.

John Roth

>
> Cheers,
> Sebastian Haase




From dmq at gain.com  Mon Apr 26 15:19:55 2004
From: dmq at gain.com (David MacQuigg)
Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2004 12:19:55 -0700
Subject: What is good about Prothon?
Message-ID: <bniq80hiib0gauiltuntk9jvia2getbnj4@4ax.com>

I'm concerned that with all the focus on obj$func binding, &closures,
and other not-so-pretty details of Prothon, that we are missing what
is really good - the simplification of classes.  There are a number of
aspects to this simplification, but for me the unification of methods
and functions is the biggest benefit.  

All methods look like functions (which students already understand).
Prototypes (classes) look like modules.  This will make teaching OOP
much simpler, especially for the students and professional engineers
(non-CIS) that I am most concerned about.  I teach electronic design
tools, not programming.  Current plans are to include some basic
Python, no OOP. If I could add OOP with another 4 hours, I would do
it.

I've written a proposal for a prototype syntax that I believe captures
the essense of what is good in Prothon, while not departing too
radically from Python. see PrototypeSyntax.htm at
http://ece.arizona.edu/~edatools/Prothon/  I would like to get
feedback from Python experts on the potential problems with this
syntax. The major question is automatic translation of existing Python
programs to the new syntax. I'm one of those users who would not give
up the existing libraries in Python, no matter how good some
alternative language may be.

I would also like to get feedback from users on what they like or
dislike about this proposal. I will summarize this feedback in the
"Pros and Cons" section of the proposal.

Below are some excerpts from the syntax proposal.  Please see the link
above for better formatting.

-- Dave

         Proposed Prototype Syntax
         =========================
< snip >

Example of Simplified Classes ( Prototypes )
============================================

Animal     -->    Mammal     -->    Feline     -->    Cat
-------           -------           -------           -------
numAnimals        numMammals        numFelines        numCats
home                                genus
__init__()        __init__()        __init__()        __init__()
                      .sound                              .sound
                                                          .name
show()            show()            show()            show()
                  talk()                              talk()


proto Animal(object):  # Inherit from the primitive object.
    numAnimals = 0
    home = "Earth"
... 
<see the "OOP Chapter" at http://ece.arizona.edu/~edatools/Prothon/
for the complete example.>
...
proto Cat(Feline):
    numCats = 0
    __init__ :( n = "unknown", s = "Meow" ):
        Feline.__init__()
        Cat.numCats += 1
        .name  = n         # Set instance variables.
        .sound = s
    show :():              # Define a "static method".
        Feline.show()
        print "    Cats:", Cat.numCats
    talk :():
        print "My name is ...", .name
        print "I am a %s from %s" % (.genus, .home)
        Mammal.talk()      # Call an unbound function.
        print __self__     ### Diagnostic check.
      
cat1 = Cat()            # Create instance.
with cat1:              # Modify instance variables.
    home  = "Tucson"
    genus = "feline"
    name  = "Garfield"

>>> cat1.talk()
My name is ... Garfield
I am a feline from Tucson
Mammal sound:  Meow
<__main__.Cat object at 0x00A894B0>
>>>

Changes from Current Python
===========================
-- Keyword class is changed to proto.
-- All methods have the same form, identical to a simple function.
-- Function header lines are re-arranged.  def --> :  Parentheses are
optional.
-- self is replaced with a leading dot, and eliminated from the arg
list.
-- Current instance is available if ever needed via __self__
-- Instances can have their attributes modified in a with block.

Benefits of Proposed Syntax
===========================
-- Unification of all function forms ( bound, unbound, static, class,
lambda ).  All will have the same form as a normal function
definition.  This will make it easier to teach OOP.  Students will
already understand functions and modules.  OOP is a small step up.  A
prototype will look just like a module ( except for the instance
variables ).  See Parallels between Prototypes and Modules below.

-- Using an explicit __self__ variable avoids the magic first
argument, and makes it easier to explain instance variables.  See the
sections below comparing a brief explanation of instance variables in
Python vs the simplified form.  A full presentation of OOP, like pages
295-390 in Learning Python, 2nd ed. will likely be 1/2 the number of
pages.  Not only is the basic presentation simpler, but we can
eliminate a lot of discussion of lambda functions, static methods,
etc.

-- All attributes of a prototype ( both data and functions ) will be
in a neat column, making it easier to find a particular attribute when
visually scanning a program.  Understanding the structure of a program
will be almost as quick as seeing a UML diagram.

-- Lambda keyword will be gone.  An anonymous function using normal
function syntax can be extremely compact. ( :x,y:x+y )

-- Method definitions will be less cluttered and less typing with
__self__ as a hidden variable.

-- Changing numerous attributes of an instance will be more
convenient. ( need use case )

-- Migration of Python programs to Prothon will be automatic and
reliable.  ???

Pros and Cons of the Proposed Syntax
====================================
Classlessness

Con: The proposed syntax is not purely classless.  This is important
because ... ???

Unification of Methods and Functions

Pro1:  Less to learn.

Con1:  Experts don't care.  Beginners don't need advanced method
syntax.

Pro2:  Replace lambdas with standard function syntax.

Con2:  ???

Explicit __self__

Pro1:  Allows the unification of methods and functions.

Con1:  ???

Pro2:  Explanation of instance variables is simpler.

Con2:  Using __self__ instead of a special first argument is less
explicit.

Pro3:  Less typing and less clutter in method definitions.

Con3:  Can use "s" or "_" instead of "self" to minimize typing and
clutter.

"Assignment" Syntax for Function Definitions

Pro1:  See all the variables at a glance in one column.

Con1:  ???

Pro2:  Emphasize the similarity between data and functions as
attributes of an object.

Con2:  ???

Symbol instead of def Keyword

Pro:  Allows lambda functions to be included in the unification.

Con:  Symbols are never as clear as keywords.

With Block

Pro:  Saves typing the object name on each line.

Con:  Making it too easy to modify prototypes after they have been
created will lead to more undisciplined programming.

Issues relevant to teaching OOP
===============================
Parallels between Prototypes and Modules
----------------------------------------
Ninety percent of what students need to know about prototypes is
already understood from their study of functions and modules.  Even
some tricky issues are best explained by comparing to a parallel
situation with modules.
< snip >

Explanation of Instance Variables in Python
-------------------------------------------
"""  Some of the variables inside the functions in a class have a
self. prefix.  This is to distinguish local variables in the function
from "instance variables".  These instance variables will be found
when the function is called, by searching the instance which called
the function.  The way this works is that calling the function from an
instance causes that instance to be passed as the first argument to
the function call.  So if you call cat1.talk(), that is equivalent to
Cat.talk(cat1) If you call cat1.set_vars( "Garfield", "Meow"), that is
equivalent to Cat.set_vars(cat1, "Garfield", "Meow")

The "current instance" argument is auto-magically inserted as the
first argument, ahead of any other arguments that you may provide in
calling a method that is "bound" to an instance.  Note: The
distinction between instances and classes is important here.  If you
call a function from a class, that function is not bound to any
instance, and you have to supply the instance explicitly in the first
argument ( Cat.talk(cat1) )

The variable name self is just a convention.  As long as you put the
same name in the first argument as in the body of the definition, it
can be self or s or even _   The single underscore is handy if you
want to maximally suppress clutter.  """

Explanation of Simplified Instance Variables
--------------------------------------------
""" Some of the variables inside the functions in a prototype have a
leading dot.  This is to distinguish local variables in the function
from "instance variables".  When a function is called from an instance
( cat1.talk() ) a special global variable __self__ is automatically
assigned to that instance ( __self__ = cat1 )  Then when the function
needs an instance variable ( .sound ) it uses __self__ just as if you
had typed it in front of the dot ( __self__.sound )  The leading dot
is just an abbreviation to avoid typing __self__ everywhere.  """

========== END ==============



From junkmail at solumslekt.org  Mon Apr 26 13:09:21 2004
From: junkmail at solumslekt.org (Leif B. Kristensen)
Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2004 19:09:21 +0200
Subject: Is Perl *that* good? (was: How's ruby compare to it older
	brother python)
References: <c6ich0$c5mee$1@ID-205437.news.uni-berlin.de>
	<iL3jc.232$Yc.2330@news4.e.nsc.no>
	<108q51j4dscn7dc@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <knbjc.267$id.3998@news2.e.nsc.no>

Cameron Laird rose and spake:

> In article <iL3jc.232$Yc.2330 at news4.e.nsc.no>,
> Leif B. Kristensen <junkmail at solumslekt.org> wrote:
> .
>>getting dynamic HTML pages up and running quickly. Perl is great for
>>its string-handling abilities. (On my Web pages, I actually call a
>>Perl script from PHP precisely for this reason.)
> .
> I hear this more often than I understand it.  Perl certainly
> does support many string-oriented operations.  What's a speci-
> fic example, though, of an action you feel more comfortable
> coding in external Perl?  I suspect there's something I need
> to learn about PHP's deficiencies, or Perl's power.

I'm glad that you asked :-)

The routine is for a phonetic search in Norwegian 18th century names,
which can be spelled in an amazing number of different ways. As I found
that the Soundex algorithm was useless for Norwegian spellings, I
invented my own. It's not really an algorithm, but a series of
substitutions that reduces names to a kind of primitives. Thus, eg.
Berthe, Birthe, Bergitte, Bergit, Birgit, B?rte, Berit, and Brit, which
actually are interchangeable spellings of the same name, are reduced to
BRT.

Here's a small sample:

$str =~ s/HN/N/g;        # John --> JON
$str =~ s/TH/T/g;        # Thor --> TOR
$str =~ s/CHI/KJ/g;      # Torchild --> TORKJL
$str =~ s/CHE/KJ/g;      # Michel --> MKJL
$str =~ s/KKE/KJ/g;      # Mikkel --> MKJL
$str =~ s/KIEL/KJL/g;    # Kield -> Kjeld ( --> KJL)
$str =~ s/CH/K/g;        # Christen -> Kristen ( --> KRSTN)
$str =~ s/CA/KA/g;       # Carl -> Karl ( --> KAL)
$str =~ s/RL/L/g;        # Thorleif <=> Tollef <=> Tolf ( --> TOLF)

I use a Perl script to transform my genealogy data from a FoxPro
database to MySQL command scripts. Thanks to the excellent module
DBD::XBase by Jan Pazdziora, this is a quite simple task.

In theory, the web routine for phonetic searches might have been
implemented in PHP. The trouble with that is that I would have to
maintain both a PHP and a Perl version of the same routine. I find it
much easier to just copy and paste the whole mess (at present about 120
lines) between the encoding and the decoding routines in Perl, and run
an exec("perl norphon.pl $name") from PHP.

regards,
-- 
Leif Biberg Kristensen
http://solumslekt.org/
Validare necesse est


From python at rcn.com  Thu Apr 15 11:01:39 2004
From: python at rcn.com (Raymond Hettinger)
Date: 15 Apr 2004 08:01:39 -0700
Subject: Difficulty Finding Python Developers
References: <65cbc3dd.0404140641.3501fde8@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <5d83790c.0404150701.605782a7@posting.google.com>

[Paul Morrow]
> posted a job on Monster, but we have been talking with various
> headhunters in our area and they don't have many resumes that show
> Python experience.  An so now, of course, mgt is wondering whether
> selecting Python was a mistake.

With a C++ code, it is critical for your programmers to have years of
C++ experience.  However, with Python, experienced programmers can get
up to speed over a weekend.

One way to capitalize on your company's Python migration effort is to
change the way you hire.  Instead of language experience being the
primary filter, you can now focus on people skills and knowledge of
the problem domain.

There is no shortage of sophisticated Python code written by
scientists who are not professional programmers.  Knowledge of the
problem domain rules.


Raymond Hettinger


From Mike at DeleteThis.Geary.com  Tue Apr 20 05:51:34 2004
From: Mike at DeleteThis.Geary.com (Michael Geary)
Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 02:51:34 -0700
Subject: outline-style sorting algorithm
References: <71650A6F73F1D411BE8000805F65E3CB3B3A4D@SRV-03>
	<mailman.776.1082399762.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<1088ehljpqq4195@corp.supernews.com>
	<c62ms1$dh4$00$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <1089sl7ebr47k2e@corp.supernews.com>

> Michael Geary wrote:
> > Interestingly enough, in Windows XP, Windows Explorer lists
> > these files in numerical order:
> >
> > file1
> > file2
> > ...
> > file9
> > file10
> > file11

Peter Otten wrote:
> Seems they special-cased this. Can they deal with
>
> fi1le
> fi2le
> fi10le
>
> and
>
> 1file
> 2file
> 10file
>
> too?

Yes, both Windows Explorer and 4NT sort those numerically.

It seems like a simple enough algorithm: Split each filename into groups of
numbers and non-numbers. When you do a sort comparison, take these character
groups from left to right, comparing the non-numeric parts alphabetically
and the numeric parts numerically.

-Mike




From Kuser-admin at kde.gr.jp  Sat Apr 17 01:41:13 2004
From: Kuser-admin at kde.gr.jp (Kuser-admin at kde.gr.jp)
Date: Sat, 17 Apr 2004 14:41:13 +0900
Subject: Fml status report (Kuser ML)
References: <20040417053649.494E31F838A@mail.kde.gr.jp>
Message-ID: <200404171441.FMLAAB29911.Kuser@kde.gr.jp>

ATTENTION! Your mail is too big, so not processed!!!
This ML <Kuser at kde.gr.jp> restricts the maximum mail size,
so pay attention to the mail with e.g. attachments.

--Kuser at kde.gr.jp, Be Seeing You!    

************************************************************

       Help: <mailto:Kuser-ctl at kde.gr.jp?body=help>
Unsubscribe: <mailto:Kuser-ctl at kde.gr.jp?body=unsubscribe>

If you have any questions or problems,
   please contact Kuser-admin at kde.gr.jp
       or 
   send e-mail with the body "help"(without quotes) to
      Kuser-ctl at kde.gr.jp
      (here is the automatic reply, so more preferable)

e.g. on a Unix Machine
(shell prompt)% echo "help" |Mail Kuser-ctl at kde.gr.jp

************************************************************




From seberino at spawar.navy.mil  Tue Apr 27 16:08:36 2004
From: seberino at spawar.navy.mil (Christian Seberino)
Date: 27 Apr 2004 13:08:36 -0700
Subject: Easiest way to *add a column* to a 2d matrix/array in
	numarray???
References: <bf23f78f.0404200803.4b065887@posting.google.com>
	<c66jij$nps$1@nntp6.u.washington.edu>
	<bf23f78f.0404221434.5c1397be@posting.google.com>
	<87oepifli4.fsf@arbutus.physics.mcmaster.ca>
Message-ID: <bf23f78f.0404271208.60f1c29e@posting.google.com>

David

Thanks.  That was pretty clever methinks.

Chris


cookedm+news at physics.mcmaster.ca (David M. Cooke) wrote in message news:<87oepifli4.fsf at arbutus.physics.mcmaster.ca>...
> At some point, seberino at spawar.navy.mil (Christian Seberino) wrote:
> 
> > Thanks for the reply.  I appreciate all the help I can get.  Your suggestion
> > of using resize is excellent for adding *rows* but does not seem
> > right for *columns*.
> 
> If rows works, you could do transpose/resize/transpose.


From sympa at ens.fr  Fri Apr  2 05:07:34 2004
From: sympa at ens.fr (SYMPA)
Date: Fri, 2 Apr 2004 12:07:34 +0200 (CEST)
Subject: Results of your commands
Message-ID: <200404021007.i32A7Y4O031684@nef.ens.fr>

No command found in message



From jepler at unpythonic.net  Tue Apr 20 11:36:42 2004
From: jepler at unpythonic.net (Jeff Epler)
Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 10:36:42 -0500
Subject: Easily convert unicode tuple to python string tuple???
In-Reply-To: <Law10-F72HfqR77bieL0005f09b@hotmail.com>
References: <Law10-F72HfqR77bieL0005f09b@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <20040420153641.GC2937@unpythonic.net>

You can use a listcomp to do "something" to each element of an iterable:

>>> s = (u'USER', u'NODE', u'HASH', u'IDNBR')
>>> [i.encode("ascii") for i in s]
['USER', 'NODE', 'HASH', 'IDNBR']

You can use tuple(s) to turn an iterable s into a tuple:
>>> tuple(_)
('USER', 'NODE', 'HASH', 'IDNBR')

Here's a function that does both in one step, as a function:
>>> def decode_tuple(t, encoding="ascii"):
...    return tuple([i.encode(encoding) for i in t])
...
>>> decode_tuple(s)
('USER', 'NODE', 'HASH', 'IDNBR')

Jeff



From peter at engcorp.com  Thu Apr  1 21:32:56 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Thu, 01 Apr 2004 21:32:56 -0500
Subject: Richards bench benchmark
In-Reply-To: <6748553f.0403302317.4595844@posting.google.com>
References: <6748553f.0403291446.27fb7b93@posting.google.com>
	<jLCdnW28-PB6cfXdRVn-iQ@powergate.ca>
	<6748553f.0403300836.744e3e22@posting.google.com>
	<Etqdnd8EeYGjM_TdRVn-jA@powergate.ca>
	<6748553f.0403302317.4595844@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <RuKdnc0lmsZFTfHdRVn-ug@powergate.ca>

Duncan Lissett wrote:
> Peter Hansen wrote:
>>I'd implement it in Python for kicks, but I'm not sure how I'd know
>>whether my version was doing the right thing.  Are there any tests
>>for it?  Ways of ensuring the output is correct?
> 
> Martin Richards original spec and debug/trace information is reposted
> here:
> http://www.lissett.com/ben/com/benchspec.htm

Okay, as a starting point I've turned the "gold output" part of that
spec into a first acceptance test, and have a shell bench.py which
runs but fails ('pass' statements tend to do that a lot during TDD).

The code should be available with

   svn co svn://fortress.engcorp.com/public/bench

I don't really expect anyone to check it out at this stage, but if you
happen to have a free moment, I wouldn't mind knowing if subversion
is properly visible through my firewall.

-Peter



From Deefex.14s2bz at mail.codecomments.com  Thu Apr 15 18:15:26 2004
From: Deefex.14s2bz at mail.codecomments.com (Deefex)
Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2004 22:15:26 GMT
Subject: tutorials
Message-ID: <aada3d1a5a6b298d1ae607fceea91804@news.thenewsgroups.com>

hey what's up, i've been looking for online tutorials to learn python on
windows but i can't find anything. does anyone know a good site with
good beginner's python information? thank you very much.
--
Deefex
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Posted via http://www.codecomments.com
------------------------------------------------------------------------
 


From rogerb at rogerbinns.com  Sat Apr 24 19:12:55 2004
From: rogerb at rogerbinns.com (Roger Binns)
Date: Sat, 24 Apr 2004 16:12:55 -0700
Subject: How to check if a path *could* be a legal path?
References: <cYqdnauMDdsosxjd4p2dnA@comcast.com>
	<slrnc8kntf.pk.jgrahn-nntq@frailea.sa.invalid>
	<pqidnd24pqKS_hfdRVn-gQ@powergate.ca>
	<m2brlh32a7.fsf@unique.phony.fqdn>
Message-ID: <ls8rl1-1np.ln1@home.rogerbinns.com>

Heather Coppersmith wrote:
> And "/" is still reserved for the directory separator.

Unless you use older versions of PC-NFS in which case you
could create files with '/' in them.  You could never
delete them from the server side though :-)

The easiest way of solving this whole problem is to
copy how Microsoft does it!  They create a new file/folder
named "new file" or "new folder" and then put you in rename
mode.  If the user presses escape, delete the file,
else rename it.

Roger




From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Mon Apr 12 22:17:24 2004
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 12 Apr 2004 22:17:24 -0400
Subject: why is python better than eg. smalltalk?? no one has any solid
	arguments! you should all go to church with all that religious talk!
References: <mailman.440.1081414295.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<roy-5C8DA0.23052910042004@reader1.panix.com>
	<c5alj7$afu$1@panix2.panix.com>
	<da3c2186.0404121200.119f22f7@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <c5fijk$gcb$1@panix3.panix.com>

In article <da3c2186.0404121200.119f22f7 at posting.google.com>,
robert <gnuoytr at rcn.com> wrote:
>
>since my fingers only know vi, i've been using Visual SlickEdit on windoze
>for a long time, since it does vi.  for java and C it does all that
>syntax stuff.  anyone found a super-vi that does the same for python?

Try vim.
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

Why is this newsgroup different from all other newsgroups?


From fpetermaas at netscape.net  Thu Apr  1 03:23:41 2004
From: fpetermaas at netscape.net (Peter Maas)
Date: Thu, 01 Apr 2004 10:23:41 +0200
Subject: test for nan
In-Reply-To: <mailman.138.1080679635.20120.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.138.1080679635.20120.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <c4gjfj$gt4$1@swifty.westend.com>

John Hunter wrote:
> I have a C extension module that is returning some doubles.  When the
> doubles get out of range, the numbers print as 'nan'.
> 
> Is there a better way to test for NaN than
> 
>    str(p1)=='nan'
> 
> where p1 is a float?
> 
> python2.3
> 
> Thanks,
> John Hunter
> 

As far as I know NaN is th only value that yields false when compared
to itself. This leads to

def isNaN(x):
     return (x == x) == False

Mit freundlichen Gruessen,

Peter Maas

-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Peter Maas, M+R Infosysteme, D-52070 Aachen, Hubert-Wienen-Str. 24
Tel +49-241-93878-0 Fax +49-241-93878-20 eMail peter.maas at mplusr.de
-------------------------------------------------------------------


From amk at amk.ca  Tue Apr 13 10:57:02 2004
From: amk at amk.ca (A.M. Kuchling)
Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2004 09:57:02 -0500
Subject: Simple discussion of python cgi approaches?
References: <153fa67.0404121727.45b23c30@posting.google.com>
	<pan.2004.04.13.10.29.44.76724@thomas-guettler.de>
Message-ID: <GsqdnSO07KkjYubdRVn-gg@speakeasy.net>

On Tue, 13 Apr 2004 12:29:44 +0200, 
	Thomas Guettler <guettli at thomas-guettler.de> wrote:
> In my situation it is enough to run quixote with plain cgi
> (no SCGI, mod_python, ...): About three request per minute.
> Loading the interpreter for every request is not the
> bottleneck.

It should be noted that Quixote's CGI publisher can also be run under
FastCGI; it should automatically detect when FastCGI is being used and
service multiple requests in a single process.  Most FastCGI implementations
work like that (because the spec suggests it), so maybe just using FastCGI 
with the existing CGI scripts will be sufficient for the original poster.

--amk


From OlafMeding at compuserve.com  Thu Apr 29 15:30:13 2004
From: OlafMeding at compuserve.com (Olaf Meding)
Date: 29 Apr 2004 12:30:13 -0700
Subject: COM Interface Question
Message-ID: <9e5ea2c4.0404291130.72e81c2e@posting.google.com>

I am having trouble with the 'User' property (get and put), found near
the bottom of the IDL file listed below.  The user get call seems to
return None, not sure why.

More importantly, is there another way to get the 'IUser' value
required for the user put call?  (Perhaps I need to make the put call
before the get call).

Sorry for the long IDL file, tried to delete a lot of non-relevant
code.  Thanks so much for your help on this one.

Olaf


// ERFile.idl : IDL source for ERFile.dll
//

// This file will be processed by the MIDL tool to
// produce the type library (ERFile.tlb) and marshalling code.

import "oaidl.idl";
import "ocidl.idl";

[
  uuid(bf79b6c5-47be-11d2-bacd-006008060a3a),
  version(1.0),
  helpstring("ERFile 1.0 Type Library")
]
library ERFile
{
  importlib("stdole32.tlb");
  importlib("stdole2.tlb");


  [
    object,
    uuid(bf79b6c7-47be-11d2-bacd-006008060a3a),
    dual,
    helpstring("IERecord Interface"),
    pointer_default(unique),
    nonextensible,
    hidden
  ]
  interface IUser : IDispatch
  {
    [id(1), helpstring("method Login")]
      HRESULT Login([in] BSTR Username, [in] BSTR Password);

    code deleted here

  };


  [
    object,
    uuid(bf79b6c9-47be-11d2-bacd-006008060a3a),
    dual,
    helpstring("IERecord Interface"),
    pointer_default(unique),
    nonextensible,
    hidden
  ]
  interface IERecord : IDispatch
  {
    [propget, id(1), helpstring("property User")]
      HRESULT User([out, retval] IUser* *pVal);

    [propput, id(1), helpstring("property User")]
      HRESULT User([in] IUser *newVal);
        
    code delted here

  };

  code delted here
};


From cm at leetspeak.org  Fri Apr 30 13:53:50 2004
From: cm at leetspeak.org (Michael Walter)
Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2004 19:53:50 +0200
Subject: Unification of Methods and Functions
In-Reply-To: <ies4909uhi4okgfao9frqnnmsarqqjcpsg@4ax.com>
References: <ies4909uhi4okgfao9frqnnmsarqqjcpsg@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <c6u3r7$g3nq9$1@ID-88904.news.uni-berlin.de>

David MacQuigg wrote:
> [...]
Pardon my ignorance, but I'm not quite sure how this unificates methods 
and functions at all.

In my eyes, unification would remove method definitions from the "class" 
scope or make it simply syntactic sugar for:

def my_method(SomeClass self):
   ...

(instead of:
class SomeClass:
   def my_method(self):
     ...)

This would also add the possibility to provide multiple dispatch by 
simply allowing a "type hint" for every parameter at every position.

Cheers,
Michael


From theller at python.net  Fri Apr 30 07:36:02 2004
From: theller at python.net (Thomas Heller)
Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2004 13:36:02 +0200
Subject: Automated installation framework
References: <vgu3901i2q8nmqdhc6s9eph8bjl8cet159@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <llkdd7fh.fsf@python.net>

Nikolai Kirsebom <nikolai.kirsebom.NOJUNK at siemens.no> writes:

> Does anyone know of an 'automated installation framework' written in
> Python / accessible from Python ?

Is it this that you have in mind?

Martin von L?wis, packing Python with Microsoft Installer:
http://www.python.org/pycon/dc2004/papers/44/

Thomas




From a at a.invalid  Tue Apr  6 08:05:43 2004
From: a at a.invalid (Timo Virkkala)
Date: Tue, 06 Apr 2004 12:05:43 GMT
Subject: Up to 80 percent off on medication, Python.
In-Reply-To: <1081199068.13889.0@eunomia.uk.clara.net>
References: <mailman.367.1081194568.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<1081199068.13889.0@eunomia.uk.clara.net>
Message-ID: <r2xcc.211$_52.29@read3.inet.fi>

Garry Knight wrote:
> In message <mailman.367.1081194568.20120.python-list at python.org>, Moon D.
> Rungs wrote:
>>Python, searching for a source to purchase medication?
>>A moment's insight is sometimes worth a life's experience.
>>The quality of decision is like the well-timed swoop of a falcon which
>>enables it to strike and destroy its victim. There is a tendency for
>>things to right themselves.
> You should be *taking* your medication, not trying to sell it on to
> others...

Especially to a language. Or a snake. Either way, it's a futile attempt. =)

--
WT


From counterpoint at famillyaffair.com  Mon Apr 12 02:04:43 2004
From: counterpoint at famillyaffair.com (Applied S. Tweaking)
Date: Sun, 11 Apr 2004 23:04:43 -0700
Subject: Downloadable software cheap, Python !
Message-ID: <011001c42054$4bf16eed$d78ebc43@famillyaffair.com>

Which side of the bed did you get out of this morning, then? :))))
'Tis not the dying for a faith that's so hard... 'Tis the living up to it that's difficult.

Low rates on Software

Searching for cheap high-quality software?
Our site might be just what you need.
http://hoagies.soft-dindon.biz

We offer Software to download or it can be shipped to you on CD.
Here is some of the software you can get on our site:
Corel Draw 11 Graphic Suite SP1 only for 50$
Borland Delphi 8 Architect Edition - 50$
Corel Draw 12 Graphic Suite - 65$
http://dusio.soft-dindon.biz And more!
We can ship worldwide.
The true measure of life is not length, but honesty.
Innocent as a dove you will harm no one, but wise as a serpent no one will harm you.

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From tmohr at s.netic.de  Sun Apr  4 13:45:43 2004
From: tmohr at s.netic.de (Torsten Mohr)
Date: Sun, 04 Apr 2004 19:45:43 +0200
Subject: allocate TWO interpreters in a C program?
Message-ID: <c4phk7$77o$1@schleim.qwe.de>

Hi,

i can embed Perl into a C program and allocate MORE THAN ONE
interpreter if i want to.  They are independent from each other.

Is this also possible in Python?


Best regards,
Torsten.



From deetsNOSPAM at web.de  Fri Apr  2 10:19:19 2004
From: deetsNOSPAM at web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Fri, 02 Apr 2004 17:19:19 +0200
Subject: popen2 trouble
Message-ID: <c4k0i1$2is7im$1@ID-111250.news.uni-berlin.de>

Hi,

I'm using the popen2 module to communicate with the crm114 text
classificator. First I used to create a subprocess, feed the text to
classify to it, close the crm's stdin file and read the results. Easy
enough.

However, the crm114 is a slow beast, and I try to increase its performanc by
using it in the "window"-mode. That means that the text fed to the
subprocess looks like this:

---START---
including bfast
---STOP---

The start/stop is detected by the crm114, and everything inbetween is
subject to classification. This simple protocol allows multiple
classifications without terminating the crm114 subprocess in between. 

When performing this in my console window, everything works as expected. I
can paste several blocks of text that look like the above one, and the
crm114 constantly outputs classification results.

But when I try it from python like this

        
        out, inn, err = _.get_crminstance(path, _.classify_program)

        t = '%s\n%s\n%s\n' % (_.START, text, _.STOP)
        logger.debug(t)
        inn.write(t)
        inn.flush()
        #inn.close()

        res =  out.read().strip()
        e = err.read().strip()
 
my program hangs. Uncommenting the inn.close() helps somewhat as then the
out.read() returns, but only after a minute or so. And I don't want to
close it anyway, because I want to use it for the next classification.

Any suggestions? I know that there are subtle differences between files and
tenminals, but I'm no unix expert, so I'm somewtaht lost.

-- 
Regards,

Diez B. Roggisch


From simonb at NOTTHISBIT.webone.com.au  Wed Apr 21 05:46:24 2004
From: simonb at NOTTHISBIT.webone.com.au (Simon Burton)
Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2004 10:46:24 +0100
Subject: Pygame book
References: <vA8hc.2788$gH6.118@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net>
	<vlehc.375$uz.125@read3.inet.fi>
Message-ID: <pan.2004.04.21.09.46.23.358592@NOTTHISBIT.webone.com.au>

On Tue, 20 Apr 2004 18:54:19 +0000, Timo Virkkala wrote:

> Lucas Raab wrote:
> 
> I own the book, and I liked it a lot. During the book the author develops
> a game framework. Sure, there's some things I'd like to do differently,
> but overall it seemed like solid work. There are also chapters on
> extending and embedding Python.
> 
> I'd suggest you take a closer look at the book, and if you like it, buy
> it. I haven't regretted spending my money on it =)


Does it cover PyOpenGL ?
What about pyODE (open dynamics engine) ?
Pyrex??

Simon.




From jepler at unpythonic.net  Wed Apr 21 07:33:47 2004
From: jepler at unpythonic.net (Jeff Epler)
Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2004 06:33:47 -0500
Subject: fmod and %
In-Reply-To: <cthbrlllkmc.fsf@lcpxdf.wm.lc.ehu.es>
References: <cthbrlllkmc.fsf@lcpxdf.wm.lc.ehu.es>
Message-ID: <20040421113347.GE5589@unpythonic.net>

fmod and % have a different rule about the sign of the returned value.
This is documented both in the language reference and in the library
reference, in the appropriate spots.

http://python.org/doc/current/ref/binary.html#l2h-411
    The % (modulo) operator yields the remainder from the division of
    the first argument by the second. The numeric arguments are first
    converted to a common type. A zero right argument raises the
    ZeroDivisionError exception. The arguments may be floating point
    numbers, e.g., 3.14%0.7 equals 0.34 (since 3.14 equals 4*0.7 + 0.34.)
    The modulo operator always yields a result with the same sign as its
    second operand (or zero); the absolute value of the result is strictly
    smaller than the absolute value of the second operand

    [Footnote:  While abs(x%y) < abs(y) is true mathematically, for
    floats it may not be true numerically due to roundoff. For example,
    and assuming a platform on which a Python float is an IEEE 754
    double-precision number, in order that -1e-100 % 1e100  have the
    same sign as 1e100, the computed result is -1e-100 + 1e100, which
    is numerically exactly equal to 1e100. Function fmod() in the math
    module returns a result whose sign matches the sign of the first
    argument instead, and so returns -1e-100 in this case. Which approach
    is more appropriate depends on the application.]

http://python.org/doc/current/lib/module-math.html#l2h-1105
    fmod(x, y)
        Return fmod(x, y), as defined by the platform C library. Note that
        the Python expression x % y may not return the same result.

Jeff



From mwh at python.net  Mon Apr 12 06:05:02 2004
From: mwh at python.net (Michael Hudson)
Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2004 10:05:02 GMT
Subject: print u"\u0432": why is this so hard? UnciodeEncodeError
References: <cpa4qrvb529.fsf@cabernet.nelson.monkey.org>
	<c52lu9$j8c$03$1@news.t-online.com>
	<eppstein-55126D.00202008042004@news.service.uci.edu>
	<c546v4$bi5$02$1@news.t-online.com>
	<m38yh3hhxv.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk>
	<c5cgq3$tps$00$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <m3u0zpfr5e.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk>

"Martin v. L?wis" <martin at v.loewis.de> writes:

> Michael Hudson wrote:
> > The user can set it per-terminal, at runtime, with no notification to
> > the running process that it has done so!
> 
> I would find it acceptable to say "don't do that, then", here. However,
> changing the encoding should be visible to new programs running in the
> terminal.
> 
> I wonder how much would break if Python would assume the terminal
> encoding is UTF-8 on Darwin. Do people use different terminal
> encodings?

How long is a piece of string?  *I* don't change the encoding very often.

You could consider the output of 'defaults read com.apple.Terminal
StringEncoding' or equivalent API calls but it's fairly opaque (it's
'4' on my machine).

I don't think $__CF_USER_TEXT_ENCODING has anything to do with
terminals (CoreFoundation, more likely).

Cheers,
mwh

-- 
[1]For those of you who aren't aware "tossing" is a euphamism for,
   well, vigourously rubbing your love pole. You understand?
   Flogging the dolphin.  Stretching the chicken's neck. Waving your
   magic wand.  Basically, wanking.  -- Just another Morfans SDA update


From wweston at att.net  Fri Apr 16 15:41:02 2004
From: wweston at att.net (wes weston)
Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2004 19:41:02 GMT
Subject: Learning about dictionaries
In-Reply-To: <b4a8ffb6.0404160850.42c0ccf@posting.google.com>
References: <b4a8ffb6.0404160850.42c0ccf@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <iFWfc.36316$K_.874476@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>

Thomas Philips wrote:
> I'm teaching myself python and in the course of playing around with
> dictionaries, I tried to create the following trivial dictionary
> 
> {1:'one', 2:'two'}
> 
> So I entered
> 
>>>>dict(1='one',2='two')
> 
> SyntaxError: keyword can't be an expression
> 
> As this did not work, I tried
> 
>>>>dict(1=one,2=two)
> 
> SyntaxError: keyword can't be an expression
> 
> and
> 
>>>>dict('1'='one','2'='two')
> 
> SyntaxError: keyword can't be an expression
> 
> as well as
> 
>>>>dict('1'=one,'2'=two)
> 
> SyntaxError: keyword can't be an expression
> 
> Out of curiosity, I tried
> 
>>>>dict(one=1,two=2)
> 
> {'two': 2, 'one': 1}
> 
> Why does this last attempt work, and more importantly, why did my four
> earlier attempts fail? I might add that I have no trouble getting what
> I want with
> 
>>>>dict(zip((1,2),('one','two')))
> 
> {1: 'one', 2: 'two'}
> or
> 
>>>>dict(((1,'one'),(2,'two')))
> 
> {1: 'one', 2: 'two'}
> 
> Sincerely
> 
> Thomas Philips


Thomas,
    Does this help:

 >>> print(dict.__doc__)
dict() -> new empty dictionary.
dict(mapping) -> new dictionary initialized from a mapping object's
     (key, value) pairs.
dict(seq) -> new dictionary initialized as if via:
     d = {}
     for k, v in seq:
         d[k] = v
dict(**kwargs) -> new dictionary initialized with the name=value pairs
     in the keyword argument list.  For example:  dict(one=1, two=2)
 >>>

wes



From jjl at pobox.com  Wed Apr 28 18:37:52 2004
From: jjl at pobox.com (John J. Lee)
Date: 28 Apr 2004 23:37:52 +0100
Subject: Dr. Dobb's Python-URL! - weekly Python news and links (Apr 28)
References: <108vg7br1jpggf1@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <87d65r20fz.fsf@pobox.com>

"John J Lee" <python-url at phaseit.net> writes:
[...]

... and 50% Cameron Laird (don't think I've ever used the word
'elicit' ;-)


John


From fredrik at pythonware.com  Sun Apr 18 14:50:45 2004
From: fredrik at pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Sun, 18 Apr 2004 20:50:45 +0200
Subject: os.system help
References: <78lgc.3445$AL1.7744@news1.mts.net><Pine.LNX.4.44.0404172009580.3096-100000@e5-05.ee.ualberta.ca><Ywngc.3629$AL1.8293@news1.mts.net><pan.2004.04.18.12.39.41.82175@jeremysanders.net>
	<5Lzgc.4355$AL1.9508@news1.mts.net>
Message-ID: <c5uilg$vti$1@sea.gmane.org>

Reid Nichol wrote

> I know there has to be a way to tell if I'm on a certain platorm.
> Something like:
> if __win32__:
> print 'on windows'
>
> But, I can't find any docs on that.  I'm probably looking in the wrong
> place, so, could someone point me in the right direction or just give me
> that if statment.

if sys.platform == "win32":
    print "on windows"

</F>






From edcogburn at hotpop.com  Thu Apr  1 07:40:41 2004
From: edcogburn at hotpop.com (Ed Cogburn)
Date: Thu, 01 Apr 2004 07:40:41 -0500
Subject: From python-dev, space vs. tab controversy finally settled
In-Reply-To: <c4gkpi$4fg$1@ork.noris.net>
References: <BrPac.5729$xw6.2105@fe1.columbus.rr.com>
	<c4gkpi$4fg$1@ork.noris.net>
Message-ID: <c4h2jh$363$1@sea.gmane.org>

Wolfram Kraus wrote:
> 
> I'm switching to Whitespace: http://compsoc.dur.ac.uk/whitespace/


Finally, an answer to my prayers!  Thanks for the link!




From fumanchu at amor.org  Tue Apr 13 02:13:06 2004
From: fumanchu at amor.org (Robert Brewer)
Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2004 23:13:06 -0700
Subject: Once-only evaluation of default parameter
	valuesfunctiondefinitions
Message-ID: <DE1CF2B4FEC4A342BF62B6B2B334601E561FEC@opus.amorhq.net>

[Fred Ma]
> > Hello,
> >    Example#1
> >    ---------
> >    def f(a, L=[]):
> >        L.append(a)
> >        return L
> >
> > The alternative explanation that I could think of is that L is bound
> > to the unnamed object [], and the object itself changes values to
> > reflect changes to L i.e. L is now a persistent variable, retaining
> > its value between function calls unless a value is provided for L in
> > the function call's argument list.

[Terry Reedy]
> More or less correct except that it is the object that you 
> should think of
> as persistent.  The variable L only exists during the function call.

...true, but still misleading IMO--I know you're probably trying to use
Fred's terms, but please, don't use the word "variable"--it just muddies
the waters. I'd rephrase that as:

"More or less correct except that it is the object that you should think
of as persistent. The binding of the name 'L' (to either the supplied or
default object) only exists during the function call."

Fred, you might want to read: http://effbot.org/zone/python-objects.htm


FuManChu



From daniel at dittmar.net  Wed Apr  7 16:55:34 2004
From: daniel at dittmar.net (Daniel Dittmar)
Date: Wed, 07 Apr 2004 22:55:34 +0200
Subject: list comprehensions
In-Reply-To: <yjZcc.42823$Pk3.9547@pd7tw1no>
References: <yjZcc.42823$Pk3.9547@pd7tw1no>
Message-ID: <c51pt1$org$1@news.eusc.inter.net>

Elaine Jackson wrote:
> List comprehensions don't work the way you intuitively expect them to work. I

How can you say such a thing. 100 Haskell programmers have been asked 
about Python list comprehension and all found it intuitive.

> partitions = lambda n: [[n]]+[[k]+x for x in partitions(n-k) for k in
> range(1,n)]
> 
> As defined above, the function raises an exception when you call it ('k'
> referenced before assignment). 

Try a simpler example and you'll see the order of execution with nested 
loops:
 >>> [(a, x) for a in "ab" for x in "xy"]
[('a', 'x'), ('a', 'y'), ('b', 'x'), ('b', 'y')]

> So I guess what I want to ask is: Can somebody explain the semantics of list
> comprehensions to me? Or even better: Can somebody tell me where to look in the
> documentation to find out about list comprehensions? All donations gratefully
> received.

http://www.python.org/doc/2.3.3/ref/lists.html, especially "each of the 
for or if clauses a block, nesting from left to right".

 >>> partitions = lambda n: [[n]]+[[k]+x for k in range(1,n) for x in 
partitions(n-k)]
 >>> partitions (3)
[[3], [1, 2], [1, 1, 1], [2, 1]]

Daniel


From Andreas.Ames at tenovis.com  Mon Apr 26 14:28:26 2004
From: Andreas.Ames at tenovis.com (Ames Andreas (MPA/DF))
Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2004 20:28:26 +0200
Subject: How to map python's unicode stuff to a wchar_t based api?
Message-ID: <788E231C269961418F38D3E360D165259B4090@tndefr-ws00021.tenovis.corp.lan>

Hi all,

besides PyUnicode_(From)|(As)WideChar I haven't found specific support
for wchar_t in the python api.  Is there a default codec that produces
wchar_t* (in a platform-neutral way) or something else in
PyArg_ParseTuple's format string that could help me?  What encoding is
used for python's Py_UNICODE thing?

My specific problem is that I wrap an api where one function can have
as well an ansi as a unicode variant.  I don't want to decide which
variant to use at compile time but rather at runtime.  Therefore I
have a default argument useUnicode and if possible I want to get rid
of the

if (PyObject_IsTrue(useUnicode)) {
   doTheUnicodeStuff();
   ...
}
else {
   doTheAnsiThingWhichLooksAlmostIdenticalToTheAboveButJustAlmost();
   ...
}

annoyance in almost any function.


TIA,

andreas




From jepler at unpythonic.net  Mon Apr 12 10:10:37 2004
From: jepler at unpythonic.net (Jeff Epler)
Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2004 09:10:37 -0500
Subject: Is there a boolean(somestring) equivalent of int(somestring).
	bool('false') -> True
In-Reply-To: <407A14B7.2030603@prescod.net>
References: <KPENJIMKHJPNKOLFIHBNIEKLCGAA.vineet@eswap.com>
	<407A14B7.2030603@prescod.net>
Message-ID: <20040412141036.GN6139@unpythonic.net>

On Sun, Apr 11, 2004 at 09:01:59PM -0700, Paul Prescod wrote:
> Maybe in your mind. What about "true", "TRUE", "oui", "1.0", "positive" 
> and "yeah". How far do you intend to go? Name a single language or 
> system that treats "True", "on", "1" and "yes" as positive values and 
> "False", "off", "0" and "no" as negative values.

Tcl is pretty liberal:
       Tcl_GetBoolean expects string to specify a boolean value.  If string is
       any of 0, false, no, or off, then Tcl_GetBoolean stores a zero value at
       *boolPtr.  If string is any of 1, true, yes, or on, then 1 is stored at
       *boolPtr.   Any  of  these  values  may  be abbreviated, and upper-case
       spellings are also acceptable.
Tcl_GetBoolean is used when configuring widgets (text .t -exportselection
tRuE) but not in mathematical expressions ([expr false]).  Personally, I
think this rule is crazy, and I try to use (the strings) "0" and
"1" as boolean values, since they work in expressions and as widget
configuration parameters.

Jeff



From colin.blackburn at durham.ac.uk  Tue Apr  6 08:13:30 2004
From: colin.blackburn at durham.ac.uk (Colin Blackburn)
Date: Tue, 06 Apr 2004 13:13:30 +0100
Subject: design by contract versus doctest
References: <407174ea$0$5066$4d4ebb8e@news.nl.uu.net>
	<T7Sdnf23r-IZGOzdRVn-sA@powergate.ca>
	<40718ddb$0$5071$4d4ebb8e@news.nl.uu.net>
	<IdadnapeW8YCCOzdRVn-jw@powergate.ca>
	<4071a6d4$0$5064$4d4ebb8e@news.nl.uu.net>
	<feKdnaUMq6w_MuzdRVn-jw@powergate.ca>
	<c4tkie$b19$2@arcturus.ciril.fr>
	<XbWdnWzpzoo5Fu_dRVn-ug@powergate.ca>
	<opr507ogk8yxrafp@nntphost.dur.ac.uk>
	<c4u5i7$j87$1@arcturus.ciril.fr>
Message-ID: <opr51awsr9yxrafp@nntphost.dur.ac.uk>

On Tue, 06 Apr 2004 13:50:02 +0200, Yermat <loic at fejoz.net> wrote:


> Hi,
> Not really each time !
> As it uses "assert", it is turn off by using -O option of python or by  
> removing the metaclass ! So it work exactly as DBC implemented in Eiffel.

It doesn't work exactly as in Eiffel. In Eiffel it is *part* of the  
language. Some aspects of DbC can be implemented in other languages but  
not all (invariants for instance are not straightforward.)

> His author is Bertrand Meyer (with an 'e').
> So please re-read it again !

I am so sorry that I typed his name incorrectly. Please don't make me read  
all 1000 pages again!!

Colin
--


From __peter__ at web.de  Mon Apr  5 05:20:20 2004
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Mon, 05 Apr 2004 11:20:20 +0200
Subject: Can someone give me a short explanation?
References: <mailman.353.1081154081.20120.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <c4r8cl$1j4$07$1@news.t-online.com>

Senthoorkumaran Punniamoorthy wrote:

> I found this code in the book text processing with Python. But having
> little difficulty understanding how exactly it works and what should be
> passed as argument? Can someone decode this for me please?
> 
> apply_each = lambda fns, args=[]: map(apply, fns, [args]*len(fns))

This can be rewritten to (untested):

def apply_each(fns, args=[]):
    return map(apply, fns, [args]*len(fns))

Now we see that the intermediate list containing args len(fns) times, i. e.
once for every function passed in fns is superfluous:

def apply_each(fns, args=[])
   return map(lambda f: apply(f, args), fns)

or written in modern style:

def apply_each(fns, args=[]):
    return [f(*args) for f in fns]

It should be clear by now what this does: Call each function in the fns
sequence with the items in args as arguments, the default being no
arguments. Note that I find the list comprehension so readable that I'd be
tempted to put it literally into my code; so in a way we are back at the
beginning - only much better :-)

Peter




From no at spam.invalid  Thu Apr 22 14:24:45 2004
From: no at spam.invalid (Russell E. Owen)
Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2004 11:24:45 -0700
Subject: Tkinter: how to fill values in OptionMenu dynamically
References: <mailman.896.1082605756.20120.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <c692lg$nse$1@nntp6.u.washington.edu>

In article <mailman.896.1082605756.20120.python-list at python.org>,
 Jeffrey Barish <jeffbarish at starband.net> wrote:

>Is there a way to fill the values in an OptionMenu dynamically?  I need
>something like the add_command method from Menu.  Is there a better way
>to implement a pull-down list?

I see other postings showing two common solutions. A third is to try 
RO.Wdg from my RO package 
<http://www.astro.washington.edu/rowen/ROPython.html>. It may be a bit 
more stuff than you want, but RO.Wdg.OptionMenu allows you to set new 
values whenever you want and it includes improved versions of most of 
the other widgets.

-- Russell


From lbates at swamisoft.com  Thu Apr 22 14:21:04 2004
From: lbates at swamisoft.com (Larry Bates)
Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2004 13:21:04 -0500
Subject: alternative python compilers/vms? (like java)
References: <pan.2004.04.22.16.09.35.766000@project2501.cor>
Message-ID: <B7SdnQV5eqCQkBXdRVn-hw@comcast.com>

You might also want to look at Jython.  It is Python turned
to Java bytecodes.  Then you can use other VMs.

http://www.jython.org/

Larry Bates
Syscon, Inc.

"project2501" <project2501 at project2501.cor> wrote in message
news:pan.2004.04.22.16.09.35.766000 at project2501.cor...
>
> are there alternative compilers for python? or different VMs to run the
> bytecode?
>
> similar to IBM java jvm and sun jvm, and other jvms? jikes, gcj?
>
>




From martin at v.loewis.de  Thu Apr  8 15:01:43 2004
From: martin at v.loewis.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?=22Martin_v=2E_L=F6wis=22?=)
Date: Thu, 08 Apr 2004 21:01:43 +0200
Subject: print u"\u0432": why is this so hard? UnciodeEncodeError
In-Reply-To: <cpak70qv55w.fsf@cabernet.nelson.monkey.org>
References: <cpa4qrvb529.fsf@cabernet.nelson.monkey.org>
	<c52lu9$j8c$03$1@news.t-online.com>
	<cpak70qv55w.fsf@cabernet.nelson.monkey.org>
Message-ID: <c547im$ls8$03$1@news.t-online.com>

Nelson Minar wrote:
> So when Python can't guess the encoding, it assumes that ASCII is the
> best it can do? Even as an American that annoys me;

In general, it uses the default encoding which, by default, is ASCII.

This has been chosen after long discussions, which discovered that any
other guess is wrong under likely circumstances (the specific
circumstances depending on what the guess is). If the guess is wrong,
you end up with moji-bake (nonsense characters), which are very hard
to track back to their source.

In the face of ambiguity, refuse the temptation to guess.

ASCII is the only guess that has no significant risk of ambiguity:
if something encodes successfully as ASCII, it would encode to the
very same byte order in nearly any other encoding.

> what do folks who
> need non-ASCII do in practice? Martin, what do you do when you write a
> Python script that prints your own name?

It depends. If I print to the terminal, I use Unicode. If I print to
XML, I use Unicode, and expect that the XML writer will pick some
encoding, using XML character references if the o-umlat cannot be
encoded. If I print to HTML, I make sure an explicit META tag has
been added to denote the document as Latin-1, or I use &ouml;.
If I print to a log file, I explcitly use Latin-1, unless I know
that the encoding of that log file is meant to be UTF-8. And so on.

It is not that Python is making that complicated, it is complicated
by nature - until everybody switches to UTF-8, which may take another
20 years or so.

> I guess what I'd like is a way to set Python's default encoding and
> have that respected for files, terminals, etc. I'd also like some way
> to override the Unicode error mode. 'strict' is the right default, but
> I'd like the option to do 'ignore' or 'replace' globally.

Submit a patch that does that. I very much prefer to fix errors instead
of ignoring them.

Regards,
Martin



From SeeBelow at SeeBelow.Nut  Tue Apr 20 00:48:09 2004
From: SeeBelow at SeeBelow.Nut (SeeBelow at SeeBelow.Nut)
Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 04:48:09 GMT
Subject: Difficulty Finding Python Developers (me too!)
References: <65cbc3dd.0404140641.3501fde8@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <4084AB85.15E9BAE2@shaw.ca>

Paul Morrow wrote:
> 
> We've worked hard to convince our company to migrate our core
> applications to Python, and now we're looking for a Python developer
> in Atlanta to handle a short-term (approx. 3 month) project.  But our
> initial searches have been fairly unsuccessful.  We haven't actually
> posted a job on Monster, but we have been talking with various
> headhunters in our area and they don't have many resumes that show
> Python experience.  An so now, of course, mgt is wondering whether
> selecting Python was a mistake.
> 
> As anyone had a similar experience?  Suggestions?

I'm also having trouble finding someone, although I'm looking for an
unpaid volunteer, so it is more to be expected.

This is part of an open source project at SourceForge.  The Python
program would have to call some methods that were compiled from C source
code.

We need someone to add graphics & GUI to an existing C program. The main
program, graphics & GUI would be python/tKinter.  The graphics would
show the path of a virtual sailboat, which has a robot at the helm. The
robot is actually an Artificial Neural Network (ANN).  We use
neuroevolution to discover a competent ANN yachtsman.  

Visit the URL below to learn more; especially the sourceforge link.

Mitchell Timin

-- 
"Many are stubborn in pursuit of the path they have chosen, few in
pursuit of the goal." - Friedrich Nietzsche

http://annevolve.sourceforge.net is what I'm into nowadays.
Humans may write to me at this address: zenguy at shaw dot ca


From sakesun at boonthavorn.com  Sat Apr 10 04:06:11 2004
From: sakesun at boonthavorn.com (Sakesun Roykiattisak)
Date: Sat, 10 Apr 2004 15:06:11 +0700
Subject: python datetime repository
In-Reply-To: <E1BC3dd-0007hH-6u@mail.python.org>
References: <E1BC3dd-0007hH-6u@mail.python.org>
Message-ID: <4077AAF3.9030809@boonthavorn.com>


During the moment of learning and using  python + various API, I 've 
come across many kinds of datetime classes.

python 2.3 datetime.datetime
xmlrpclib.DateTime
pywintypes.Time
mxDateTime
Zope's DateTime
pyical's DateTime

Anybody know any other python datetime class out there ?  Just wonder if 
there are more.

According to Bruce Eckel, "Python reduce clutter".  Perhaps datetime 
clutter is badly need reduction.




From missive at frontiernet.net  Tue Apr 27 17:06:25 2004
From: missive at frontiernet.net (Lee Harr)
Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2004 21:06:25 GMT
Subject: Using a single module of Pygame
References: <Xns94D7DD1EEAB44nonenonecom@24.93.43.121>
Message-ID: <lXzjc.2894$HO2.2376@news01.roc.ny>

On 2004-04-27, JDR <none at none.com> wrote:
> Would anyone happen to know of a way to strip out the joystick module of 
> Pygame?  I've written a console based application that doesn't need X, 
> mixer, fonts, etc. and I can't get my application to run without X11 libs 
> installed.
>
> I've been searching google for the past hour without luck.  If anyone knows 
> of any good informational sites, please let me know.  I'll keep digging 
> through Python's docs.
>


Well, there is pygame.org of course, and the very helpful people on
the pygame mailing list. You should also look at libsdl.org (on which
pygame builds) to see if it can run without X11.



From sean_berry at cox.net  Mon Apr 26 22:27:20 2004
From: sean_berry at cox.net (Sean Berry)
Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2004 19:27:20 -0700
Subject: How to read a file from another server?  Newbie
References: <%Oejc.16$ph.9@fed1read07>
	<9ugjc.3709$g31.1370@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net>
	<c6k9fh$3t9$1@bagan.srce.hr>
Message-ID: <Yyjjc.2071$Jy3.1146@fed1read03>

ssh I think.


"Ivan Voras" <ivoras at __geri.cc.fer.hr> wrote in message
news:c6k9fh$3t9$1 at bagan.srce.hr...
> Edward Diener wrote:
>
> > Sean Berry wrote:
> >
> >>I am trying to read in a file from another server.
> >>
> >>If I try
> >>x = open("servername:/path/to/file", "r")
> >
> >
> > x = open("servername://path/to/file", "r")
>
> Um, what does this to? What protocol does it use?




From roy at panix.com  Tue Apr 27 15:01:11 2004
From: roy at panix.com (Roy Smith)
Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2004 15:01:11 -0400
Subject: Is Perl *that* good?
References: <c6ich0$c5mee$1@ID-205437.news.uni-berlin.de>
	<iL3jc.232$Yc.2330@news4.e.nsc.no>
	<108q51j4dscn7dc@corp.supernews.com>
	<knbjc.267$id.3998@news2.e.nsc.no>
	<pan.2004.04.26.20.50.19.843510@hotmail.com>
	<87fzaqmm8t.fsf@strauser.com>
	<38ec68a6.0404262308.50029919@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.49.1083084698.25742.python-list@python.org>
	<pan.2004.04.27.18.15.56.169064@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <roy-C76BAA.15011127042004@reader2.panix.com>

In article <pan.2004.04.27.18.15.56.169064 at hotmail.com>,
 Paramjit Oberoi <p_s_oberoi at hotmail.com> wrote:

> >     Asun> Regex is much more 'immediate' in Perl.  
> > 
> > Sure, it's syntactically bound into the language.  There will always be an
> > extra constant overhead to enable regular expressions in Python.  That
> 
> If only compiled regular expression objects allowed easy access to the
> last match object, python regxes would become significantly more
> convenient.  For example, today you have to write:
> 
> m = myregex.match(line)
> if (m):
>     xyz = m.group('xyz')
> 
> It would be much easier to do:
> 
> if myregex.match(line):
>     xyz = myregex.lastm.group('xyz')
> 
> Having to introduce a new variable name for a match object just
> muddles the code unnecessarily in common regex usage scenarios.
> 
> -param

I like that idea.  I would go one step further and eliminate the lastm 
attribute, so you could just do:

if myregex.match(line):
    xyz = myregex.group('xyz')

Maybe even go all the way and let a regex object have all the methods of 
a match object, cache a reference to the last match, and delegate calls 
to the match object methods to the cached match object.


From steve at ninereeds.fsnet.co.uk  Wed Apr  7 17:24:23 2004
From: steve at ninereeds.fsnet.co.uk (Stephen Horne)
Date: Wed, 07 Apr 2004 22:24:23 +0100
Subject: OFF-TOPIC:: Why Lisp is not my favorite programming language
References: <165b3efa.0403030443.4d591f04@posting.google.com>
	<40460dd5$0$5916$7a628cd7@news.club-internet.fr>
	<d771b842.0403040735.3b5200ae@posting.google.com>
	<e87fc4b0.0403221114.254b7ee5@posting.google.com>
	<d771b842.0404061258.655b8e56@posting.google.com>
	<6in670lrldbjkuujle68a526293j57a7mn@4ax.com>
	<95aa1afa.0404070205.94b32e4@posting.google.com>
	<tyfptakvwrl.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
Message-ID: <jnr87050a6d52edleb8l4movjr3667rb16@4ax.com>

On 07 Apr 2004 13:43:26 +0200, Jacek Generowicz
<jacek.generowicz at cern.ch> wrote:

>Did you mean to point to this thread containing this post:
>
>http://www.google.ch/groups?as_umsgid=ad2vzxoq.fsf%40ccs.neu.edu
>
>?
>
>[Summary: Troll comes to c.l.l claiming that Lisp is slow. Challenges
>Lispniks to try to beat C++ on speed on a program that was designed to
>test speed of C++ compilers. Lispniks beat C++ for speed in both
>Common Lisp and Scheme.]

OK, I'm seriously out of date and possibly just plain wrong. It should
be clear that I didn't have any particular implementation in mind, and
neither did Mike who I was replying to. The only implementation of
Lisp I ever used, a very long time ago, had given every appearance of
being a pretty simple interpreter and the only time I ever saw a Lisp
implementation as source code it was an interpreter, and given the
kind of metaprogramming possible in Lisp (which for compilation to
work, must imply just-in-time compilation at run time) I just never
questioned the 'Lisp is interpreted' assumption.

Big mistake. Thanks for letting me know.

Though the 30* slower that C claim must be one of three things...

1.  An interpreter, presumably with relatively simple builtins and
    most more sophisticated stuff handled through libraries.

2.  The worst compiler code generation in history.

3.  A complete fabrication.

In my defence, I did say...

: An implementation that has more of the standard operations built in,
: or which used just-in-time compilation etc, may well run much faster.

In other words, I was making the point right from the start that
performance depends on the implementation and these figures may be
from a bad one. Though obviously I wasn't aware how exceptionally bad.


-- 
Steve Horne

steve at ninereeds dot fsnet dot co dot uk


From dustin at myaddress.net  Wed Apr 21 15:59:55 2004
From: dustin at myaddress.net (Dustin)
Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2004 19:59:55 GMT
Subject: Python editors for Windows question
References: <D6Ahc.2737911$iA2.315963@news.easynews.com>
Message-ID: <%oAhc.13593980$Id.2258891@news.easynews.com>

I believe what I'm looking for is an "autocomplete" capable editor :-)


"Dustin" <dustin at myaddress.net> wrote in message
news:D6Ahc.2737911$iA2.315963 at news.easynews.com...
> Hello,
>
> I just started programming in Python last night, and I've really enjoyed
my
> experience so far. I would like to know if there is a Windows editor that
> recognizes Python and will support a module syntax/definition lists For
> instance, let's say that I set form = cgi and then when I hit the period
> (".") on the keyboard, a list of objects shows up, such as FieldStorage(),
> etc.. Any suggestions are appreciated. Thank you!
>
> Dustin
>
>




From peter at engcorp.com  Tue Apr 27 07:22:50 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2004 07:22:50 -0400
Subject: How to read a file from another server?  Newbie
In-Reply-To: <34jjc.44391$IW1.2353779@attbi_s52>
References: <%Oejc.16$ph.9@fed1read07>
	<9ugjc.3709$g31.1370@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net>
	<c6k9fh$3t9$1@bagan.srce.hr> <34jjc.44391$IW1.2353779@attbi_s52>
Message-ID: <sZSdnfNDBrQX3xPdRVn-sQ@powergate.ca>

djw wrote:

> Ivan Voras wrote:
>> Edward Diener wrote:
>>> x = open("servername://path/to/file", "r")
>>
>> Um, what does this to? What protocol does it use?
> 
> I can see how this might work for a Windows server, but wouldn't the 
> forward slashes need to be back slashes? And the path to the file would 
> have to be a shared drive on the server.

"Might work" being the operative words.  Actually "won't work"
is more correct, though. ;-)

Two points:

1. Forward slashes are perfectly fine on Windows,
provided you are not passing the path to the shell/command line/cmd.exe
or whatever.  Internally Windows can cope with forward slashes very
nicely, and they often make it easier or more readable than resorting
to raw strings with r'path\file' all the time.

2. Its unlikely the server name should come first and with a colon
following.  More likely //servername/path/to/file is closer to what
is wanted.

-Peter


From rmanx at gmx.de  Thu Apr  8 09:30:14 2004
From: rmanx at gmx.de (Robert)
Date: Thu, 8 Apr 2004 15:30:14 +0200
Subject: if 'hallo' in ['hallooo','halloooooooo'] problem
Message-ID: <c53k55$mm2$1@news.mch.sbs.de>

Hi,

I have a little problem and mybe one of you has got the solution.
I would like to check if a string is in a list of strings.
The following returns true:
if 'hallo' in ['halloooo','hallooooooooo']:
    pass

but I want to check if the string is exactly equal to any string in the
list.
How can I do this without the need to do something like this:
def stringInList(self,string,list):
        for oneStr in list:
            if string == oneStr:
                return 1
        return 0


Thank you in advance,

Robert




From jmdeschamps at cvm.qc.ca  Tue Apr 20 16:43:14 2004
From: jmdeschamps at cvm.qc.ca (jmdeschamps)
Date: 20 Apr 2004 13:43:14 -0700
Subject: Still trying to compile Ming (Flash) for windows :(
Message-ID: <3d06fae9.0404201243.92f176@posting.google.com>

I've tried to follow gerhard lead from:
http://groups.google.com/groups?q=Ming+gerhard+group:comp.lang.python.*&hl=fr&lr=&ie=UTF-8&group=comp.lang.python.*&selm=slrnb3fusl.1d4.gerhard.haering%40haering.opus-gmbh.net&rnum=1

but wind up with 

C:\ming\py_ext>python setup.py build --compiler=mingw32
running build
running build_py
running build_ext
building 'mingc' extension
gcc -mno-cygwin -mdll -O -Wall -I.. -IC:\Python23\include
-IC:\Python23\PC -c mi
ng_wrap.c -o build\temp.win32-2.3\Release\ming_wrap.o
error: command 'gcc' failed: No such file or directory

C:\ming\py_ext>

I don't have SWIG (not sure what it is ?)
Actually, didn't have ming.wrap.c either, but downloaded that from the
net...

HELP ! if anyone knows how ... (I am rather not good at C++)

 Thanks in advance,

Jean-Marc
PS I have ming (Flash stuff sources), I have Mingc (the compiler), i
have python 2.3, on windows XP


From kirk at eyegor.jobsluder.net  Sun Apr 11 23:58:45 2004
From: kirk at eyegor.jobsluder.net (Kirk Job-Sluder)
Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2004 03:58:45 GMT
Subject: Python is the best and most popular general purpose scripting
	language; the universal scripting language
References: <a5415304.0404101350.271088f2@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <slrnc7k50v.1jl.kirk@eyegor.jobsluder.net>

On 2004-04-10, Ron Stephens <rstephens at vectron.com> wrote:
> Python is the best and most popular general purpose scripting
> language. That is, Python is the best and most popular general
> purpose, dynamic, interpreted language. Sure, there are other
> scripting languages that are more popular for specific application
> domains, and there are big company backed systems languages that are
> far more popular; but in its niche, Python is tops.
>
>....

> Long live Python, the universal solvent!

I like python but I disagree.  In addition I think that putting any
language as the "universal solvent" is not all that great.  Back when I
considered perl the swiss army chainsaw of system administration, I
wasted a lot of time adding unnecessary fluff to a script when all that
was required was a set of pipes between existing programs.

For example:

 awk '$1 !~ /^(127\.0\.0\.1|192\.168\.1)/ {print $1}' \
 < /var/log/httpd-access.log | sort | uniq


A nice Bourne one-liner that does useful work, but which I really don't
feel is worth doing in python.  The two hours I spent learning awk has
paid off whenever I need to pretty-print a character-delimited file.  



>
> Ron Stephens
> www.awaretek.com/weblog/index.html


From peter.schwalm at epost.de  Tue Apr  6 22:53:51 2004
From: peter.schwalm at epost.de (Peter Schwalm)
Date: 6 Apr 2004 19:53:51 -0700
Subject: Customizing the python search path depending on source directory
Message-ID: <5cf809e9.0404061853.41cd3c85@posting.google.com>

I'd like to modify the python search path depending on the source
directory of the script being started. The reason is: I use a version
control system, and the python scripts and modules are migrated
through several stages before they are used in production. A python
script running in a development environment should use different
modules - possibly in other directories then the script source
directory - than the same script running in a production environment.

Ideally this should work without any modifications to the python
programs, and the search path should be set up before the script
invoked by the user gains control.

My idea was to use site.py / sitecustomize.py in lib/site-packages and
to have sitecustomize.py invoke a directory-specific customizing
module - say dirCustomize.py - located in the script source directory.

But it seems that this is the wrong place, because at the moment
sitecustomize is imported

    a) the source directory of the script is still not in sys.path
    b) sys.argv is still not set, so I can't find out the source
directory via sys.argv[0] and temporarily add it to sys.path for the
invocation of dirCustomize.py.
    c) also sys.modules["__main__"].__file__ is still not set

The following "sitecustomize.py" shows these difficulties:
#-------------------------------------------------------------------------
print "start siteCustomize.py ..."
import sys
import os

try:
    print "argv=", sys.argv
except AttributeError:
    print ""
    print "sys.argv does still not exist!"

try:
    print "sys.modules[\"__main__\"]=",
sys.modules["__main__"].__file__
except AttributeError:
    print ""
    print "sys.modules[\"__main__\"].__file__ does still not exist"

# ... shows that source directory is still not in sys.path
print "sys.path="
for ix1, p1 in enumerate(sys.path):    print "%02.02d: %s" % (ix1, p1)

print "... end siteCustomize.py"
#-------------------------------------------------------------------------

I'd not like to use the current working directory instead of the
script directory, because the scripts may be started from anywhere
directories by specifying the path name in the invocation.

Does anyone have an idea?
    
Thank you in advance,
Peter


From rpm1deleteme at direcway.com  Sat Apr  3 21:58:04 2004
From: rpm1deleteme at direcway.com (RPM1)
Date: Sat, 3 Apr 2004 21:58:04 -0500
Subject: Python is faster than C
References: <406F0907.96F37EA1@tunes.org>
Message-ID: <c4ntlh$2jfgmp$1@ID-203708.news.uni-berlin.de>


"Armin Rigo"  wrote ...
> Hi!
>
> This is a rant against the optimization trend of the Python interpreter.
>
> Sorting a list of 100000 integers in random order takes:
>
> * 0.75 seconds in Python 2.1
> * 0.51 seconds in Python 2.2
> * 0.46 seconds in Python 2.3
>
> Tim Peters did a great job optimizing list.sort().  If I try with a
> simple, non-stable pure Python quicksort implementation, in Python 2.3:
>
> * 4.83 seconds
> * 0.21 seconds with Psyco
>
> First step towards world domination of high-level languages :-)
>
> The reason that Psyco manages to outperform the C implementation is not
> that gcc is a bad compiler (it is about 10 times better than Psyco's).
> The reason is that the C implementation must use a generic '<' operator
> to compare elements, while the Psyco version quickly figures out that it
> can expect to find ints in the list; it still has to check this
> assumption, but this is cheap and then the comparison is done with a
> single machine instruction.
>

I think Psyco is great!  But Python + Psyco does not outperform
C overall.  Try writing a chess program in Python and see how it
performs against C.

Patrick




From urnerk at qwest.net  Wed Apr 14 22:43:17 2004
From: urnerk at qwest.net (urnerk at qwest.net)
Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2004 22:43:17 -0400
Subject: Is this an OK design?
Message-ID: <Vhpfc.240$V02.92192@news.uswest.net>


Partly because I'm doing OpenOffice PowerPoint (not much room on a slide),
I'm breaking what could be a single class into a succession of tiny
"version" classes, each inheriting from the one before, and each adding
more functionality.  

I'm also separating each version into a module of its own, such that each
successive version keeps the same name (say P), and inherits from module.P

Part of the goal is to demonstrate inheritance, so it's OK to evolve my P
class over several versions.

Here's a skeletal outline, where --- separates modules:

---- pv1.py ----

  class P(object):
     def __init__(self, amap)
         self.amap = amap

--- pv2.py ---

  import pv1
  class P(pv1.P):

    def __invert__(self):
       # newmap = inverted self.amap
       return P(newmap)

    def __mul__(self,other): etc.

--- pv3.py ---

  import pv2
  class P(pv2.P):
    def __div__(self,other):
       return self * ~other

---

Note that only the base class has a constructor, while the subclasses add
additional methods.

The above design had a problem though:

  >> import pv1, pv2, pv3
  >> from pv3 import P
  >> p1 = P(map)
  >> q = ~p1  # invokes __invert__ in pv2
  >> q/p1
  Error about / not defined for instance, instance
  >> isinstance(q,pv3.P)
  False
  >> isinstance(q,pv2.P)
  True

The problem was __invert__, being defined in pv2, would return an instance
of pv2.P, which doesn't yet know about __div__ (that comes in the next
version).

So the need is to have methods that return a P, to return a P of the same
version, e.g. if p1 is of type pv3.P, then __invert__, even though defined
in the parent, should return a pv3.P when invoked.

My solution was:

---- pv1.py ----

  class P(object):
     def __init__(self, amap)
         self.amap = amap
         self.P = self.__class__ # <-- store type of instance

--- pv2.py ---

  import pv1
  class P(pv1.P):

    def __invert__(self):
       # newmap = inverted self.amap
       return self.P(newmap)  # <--- class is now object attribute

    def __mul__(self,other): etc.

--- pv3.py ---

  import pv2
  class P(pv2.P):
    def __div__(self,other):
       return self * ~other

---

Now when I go:

  >> from pv3 import P
  >> p1 = P(map)
  >> q = ~p1  # invokes __invert__
  >> q/p1
  <answer>
  >> isinstance(q,pv3.P)
  True
  >> isinstance(q,pv2.P)
  True

i.e. q/p1 succeeds, because ~p1 returns a pv3.P type, which understands
about __div__.

What I'd like to know is:  is my solution perverse or Pythonic?  Is there a
better way?

Kirby



From greg at cosc.canterbury.ac.nz  Sun Apr 25 22:28:27 2004
From: greg at cosc.canterbury.ac.nz (Greg Ewing)
Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2004 14:28:27 +1200
Subject: Why we will use obj$func() often
In-Reply-To: <MMcic.28546$dZ1.18087@fed1read04>
References: <d2Uhc.22272$dZ1.1600@fed1read04> <84Uhc.22278$dZ1.5087@fed1read04>
	<mailman.927.1082665370.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<8AWhc.23114$dZ1.11070@fed1read04> <40883BFE.B381518A@alcyone.com>
	<27_hc.23801$dZ1.2716@fed1read04> <40887145.789A2FE8@alcyone.com>
	<WqWdnfW7RpSmhRTdRVn-uw@speakeasy.net>
	<MMcic.28546$dZ1.18087@fed1read04>
Message-ID: <c6hs4e$bvi56$1@ID-169208.news.uni-berlin.de>

Mark Hahn wrote:
> Yes, many people are afraid to try new things.  That is a shame.

It's not a matter of being afraid, it's a matter of having
enough spare time and being interested enough to learn enough
about the new language to try it out. The more different Prothon
is from Python, the greater the barrier will be to Python
people, and the fewer of them there will be that can spare the
time to dabble in it.

-- 
Greg Ewing, Computer Science Dept,
University of Canterbury,	
Christchurch, New Zealand
http://www.cosc.canterbury.ac.nz/~greg



From meyer at acm.org  Thu Apr  8 04:34:37 2004
From: meyer at acm.org (Andre Meyer)
Date: Thu, 8 Apr 2004 08:34:37 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Python for AI: OWL and CLIPS anyone?
Message-ID: <loom.20040408T103102-190@post.gmane.org>

Hi Pythoneers

For a project using Python in Artificial Intelligence I am wondering whether
useful libraries a re available. My interest is primarily in
- an ontology parser/generator, ideally for OWL
- a rule-based expert system, something like CLIPS, ideally linked to OWL

Is either of these available for Python? I have not been able to find much
information on the Web, yet.

Thanks for hints
Andre





From peter at engcorp.com  Fri Apr  2 23:12:26 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Fri, 02 Apr 2004 23:12:26 -0500
Subject: Indent testers needed (Prothon)
In-Reply-To: <Unqbc.131025$cx5.57643@fed1read04>
References: <Unqbc.131025$cx5.57643@fed1read04>
Message-ID: <noOdnTqctOE3pPPdRVn-tw@powergate.ca>

Mark Hahn wrote:

> We're  proud to say that Prothon has grown out of the indent space/tab flame
> war stage and has moved on to more serious discussions.
> 
> We've decided to allow space-based indents and tab-based indents but not in
> the same file.  

I've (thankfully) missed all the Prothon-related wars about indentation,
clearly, but I have to ask, isn't this "solution" rather ill-conceived
still?

What about copy-and-paste from one file (which was done with spaces)
to another which is using tabs?  Kind of puts a crimp in one's style
there, I would think...

Just a thought.

I heard a rumour Python is heading for "no tabs", period.  Why not just
simplify everyone's life and do the same for Prothon, and leave the
whole darned issue in the past.  In a year no one will be complaining
about their beloved tabs anyway...

(Oooh... won't that get another flame war started? :-)  I think I'll
skip it... I just wanted to make the first point.  And should probably
have stopped there.)

-Peter


From miki.tebeka at zoran.com  Tue Apr 13 05:37:36 2004
From: miki.tebeka at zoran.com (Miki Tebeka)
Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2004 11:37:36 +0200
Subject: Reommended compiler toolkit
Message-ID: <c5g8uu$aak$1@news2.netvision.net.il>

Hello All,

I'm looking for a pure python compiler toolkit (lexer + parser, like 
flex + bison).

I've seen many:
ply (which I like most)
SPARK
Yapps
PyLR
kwParsing
Plex
FlexModule

Which one do you recommend?
Thanks.
Miki


From bokr at oz.net  Tue Apr 20 13:25:40 2004
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 20 Apr 2004 17:25:40 GMT
Subject: module not callable - why not?
References: <c56jph$rrk$05$1@news.t-online.com>
	<107dras2heahcb6@news.supernews.com>
	<mailman.491.1081538569.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<8ef9bea6.0404122025.36efc84e@posting.google.com>
	<c5tef0$5hf$1@news.service.uci.edu>
	<7xsmf1fxd9.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<m3ad16rfb0.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <c63mek$jju$0@216.39.172.122>

On Tue, 20 Apr 2004 12:42:44 GMT, Michael Hudson <mwh at python.net> wrote:

>Paul Rubin <http://phr.cx at NOSPAM.invalid> writes:
>
>> And yet, you can call a class instance if it has a __call__
>> operation defined.  I don't see why modules shouldn't be the same.
>
>Well, for a possible counter argument, consider that you can only call
>an instance of a new-style class if the CLASS defines the __call__
>method...
>
ISTM you could give the module class a __call__ property, so you could
customize the callability of module instances something like:

 >>> print '----\n%s----'% file('callablinst.py').read()
 ----
 class Callablinst(object):
     def _getcallable(self): return self.__dict__['__call__']
     def _setcallable(self,v): self.__dict__['__call__'] = v
     __call__ = property(_getcallable, _setcallable)
 ----
 >>> from callablinst import Callablinst as CI
 >>> c = CI()
 >>> c()
 Traceback (most recent call last):
   File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
   File "callablinst.py", line 2, in _getcallable
     def _getcallable(self): return self.__dict__['__call__']
 KeyError: '__call__'
 >>> c.__call__ = lambda:'I am callable now ;-)'
 >>> c()
 'I am callable now ;-)'
 >>> c2 = CI()
 >>> c2()
 Traceback (most recent call last):
   File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
   File "callablinst.py", line 2, in _getcallable
     def _getcallable(self): return self.__dict__['__call__']
 KeyError: '__call__'
 >>> c2.__call__ = lambda:'I am c2'
 >>> c2()
 'I am c2'

UIAM, a def __call__(whatever): ... somewhere in the global scope of such a
module's source should then be picked up (depending on how the execution of
the def actually does the function name binding perhaps -- presumably it would
either bypass the attribute/property mechanism, or would use it). Either way
I would guess subsequent use of the module as callable would pick up the function
bound to __call__, but I'm not certain.

Regards,
Bengt Richter


From __peter__ at web.de  Thu Apr  1 04:56:44 2004
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Thu, 01 Apr 2004 11:56:44 +0200
Subject: test for nan
References: <mailman.138.1080679635.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<c4gjfj$gt4$1@swifty.westend.com>
Message-ID: <c4gp0s$av1$07$1@news.t-online.com>

Peter Maas wrote:

> As far as I know NaN is th only value that yields false when compared
> to itself. This leads to
> 
> def isNaN(x):
>      return (x == x) == False

That is not portable:

Python 2.3.3 (#1, Jan  3 2004, 13:57:08)
[GCC 3.2] on linux2
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> nan = float("nan")
>>> nan != nan
False


Peter



From beliavsky at aol.com  Tue Apr  6 14:38:06 2004
From: beliavsky at aol.com (beliavsky at aol.com)
Date: 6 Apr 2004 11:38:06 -0700
Subject: Compact Python library for math statistics
References: <E1B9LoV-0005OQ-00@fatlady.ukr.net>
	<mailman.267.1080904644.20120.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3064b51d.0404061038.4d69fd89@posting.google.com>

Gerrit <gerrit at nl.linux.org> wrote in message news:<mailman.267.1080904644.20120.python-list at python.org>...
> wrote:
> > I'm looking for a Python library for math statistics. This must be a cl
> ear set of general statistics functions like 'average', 'variance', 'cova
> riance' etc.
> 
> The next version of Python will have a 'statistics' module. It is
> probably usable in Python 2.3 as well. You can find it in CVS:
> 
> http://cvs.sourceforge.net/viewcvs.py/*checkout*/python/python/nondist/sa
> ndbox/statistics/statistics.py
> 
> I'm not sure whether it's usable in current CVS, though. You may have to
> tweak it a little.

<SNIP>

It works for me, at least the mean function. A statistics module will
be nice to have, although it is easy to write your own.

Here is a minor suggestion. The functions 'mean' and 'variance' are
separate, and the latter function requires a mean to be calculated. To
save CPU time, it would be nice to have a single function that returns
both the mean and variance, or a function to compute the variance with
a known mean.

Ideally there would be a function such as 

def stats(x,ss)

where ss contains a list of statistics to be computed and the function
returns a list of the same size. If you called it with

y = stats(x,["mean","variance"])

the function would compute the mean and variance efficiently.

Other comments:
(1) In computing the median, there is a line of code

    return (select(data, n//2) + select(data, n//2-1)) / 2

I think finding the 500th and 501st elements separately out of a 1000
element array is inefficient. Isn't there a way to get consecutive
ordered elements in about the same time needed to get a single
element?

(2) The following code crashes when median(x) is computed. Why?

from statistics import mean,median
x = [1.0,2.0,3.0,4.0]
print mean(x)
print median(x)

(3) The standard deviation is computed as 

    return variance(data, sample) ** 0.5

I think the sqrt function should be used instead -- this may be
implemented more efficiently than general exponentiation.


From flupke at nonexistingdomain.com  Thu Apr 22 10:11:03 2004
From: flupke at nonexistingdomain.com (flupke)
Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2004 14:11:03 GMT
Subject: python web programming / CMS
References: <EOOhc.82192$A9.5538906@phobos.telenet-ops.be>
	<mailman.910.1082637637.20120.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <XnQhc.82310$X%7.5425202@phobos.telenet-ops.be>

"Arcane" <arcane at deepfort.com> schreef in bericht
news:mailman.910.1082637637.20120.python-list at python.org...
> news.telenet.be wrote:
>
> >Hi,
> >
> >i'm looking at python to do programming for the new intranet
> >here at the company. I'm looking at plone/zope also.
> >Before, I've used jsp for webprogramming but i'm considering
> >python for this.
> >One thing that isn't clear to me is if it's possible to include python
> >code in a html page like you would do with jsp and then have zope
> >"translate" that to html. With jsp, one could use an apache/tomcat
> >combo to accomplish this.
> >If one can't include python in html, is Zope the only alternative and
> >how does code look like then?
> >
> >Thanks
> >
> >
> >
> >
> There are various ways to implement a "PSP (Python Server Pages)"-type
> setup.
>
> I don't know how well regarded it is amongst other python users - in
> fact, I'd be interested to know, but I use the
> very lightweight Spyce : http://spyce.sourceforge.net.
>
> I use Spyce-flavoured apache, in combination with python cgi stuff to
> great effect on our intranet.
>
> Hope this helps.

(saw name was misconfigured as news.telenet.be)

This seems to be doing what i want. However i have some more
questions :)

1. Am i correct in thinking i would have to add for instance FastCGI to
the Spyce install in order to get it working?

2. In jsp, i often used my own java objects in the code. Can you also do
this with Spyce? For instance, if i would have to get data from a db, i
would
make an object that implements code to do this and then create an instance
of that object in a PSP. Is this doable?

3. What databases can be accessed from Python?

Flupke





From loredo at astro.cornell.edu  Fri Apr  9 12:27:22 2004
From: loredo at astro.cornell.edu (Tom Loredo)
Date: Fri, 09 Apr 2004 12:27:22 -0400
Subject: How to give a descriptor method access?
Message-ID: <4076CEEA.95956C4B@astro.cornell.edu>


Hi folks-

I'd like to have objects with members that return values when accessed
by name, but the members must also have methods that can manipulate the
values and store additional state.  This is a simplified version of the
direction I'm currently going using descriptors:

class Parameter(object):
    """Insert named descriptor into calling instance."""
    def __init__(self, name):
        self.name = name + 'val'
    def __get__(self, inst, owner):
        # print 'getting val'
        return getattr(inst, self.name)
    def __set__(self, inst, val):
        # print 'setting val'
        setattr(inst, self.name, val)
    def __del__(self,inst):
        del inst.value


class test(object):
    x = Parameter('x')
    y = Parameter('y')

Using this in the interpreter, one can access x by name to set and get
values.

>>> a = test()
>>> a.x = 'ab cd'
>>> a.x
'ab cd'

You can obviously also access methods of the string object assigned to
a.x:

>>> a.x.split()
['ab', 'cd']

But what if I wanted to have methods of my own that access the value of
a.x and store additional state?  That is, I want

a.x

to return a value, but I want

a.x.mymeth(args)

to call a method that has access to the a.x value, and that stores
additional state about a.x in the a instance.

A possible solution that occurs to me is to create a new string object
that inherits from str but adds my own methods and state:

class mystr(str):
	blah...

and then redefine __set__ to insert an instance of this into the
Parameter instance.  But this seems to me to create a lot of overhead
for the many times I'll just want to get the value for a.x.  Is there
some other way to have "a.x" by itself return a value, but have "a.x"
in "a.x.mymeth" reference an object so that its "mymeth" method gets
called?

Thanks,
Tom

PS:  In case being more concrete helps, an example would be that
Parameter stores the value of a float parameter in a model, so a.x
should return a float value (as quickly as possible---this will be
accessed a lot).  But I'd like to set allowed ranges to such values,
define grids they'll be stepped on, store whether they can be maximized
or integrated over in a calculation, etc..  So I want to be able to
call a.x.range(1,10) and have it store 1 and 10 as the range for future
values of a.x, have a.x.vary() set a variable saying it can be varied
in a fit, etc., and do this having multiple Parameter instances
in a class, and multiple instances of that class.


From mjackson at alumni.caltech.edu  Fri Apr  2 15:21:02 2004
From: mjackson at alumni.caltech.edu (Mark Jackson)
Date: 2 Apr 2004 20:21:02 GMT
Subject: Python conference slogan
References: <mailman.189.1080759511.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<kmjsj1-89u.ln1@snout.lairds.org> <c4glmq$j1i$1@swifty.westend.com>
	<30260531.0404010833.1b834032@posting.google.com>
	<406C4DDF.5000907@zope.com>
	<mailman.259.1080890435.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<c4jj1i$f6g$1@swifty.westend.com>
	<tyflllez9hw.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
	<c4k33o$dv$1@swifty.westend.com>
Message-ID: <c4khve$qvn$1@news.wrc.xerox.com>

Peter Maas <peter.maas at mplusr.de> writes:
> Jacek Generowicz wrote:
> > Peter Maas <peter.maas at mplusr.de> writes:
> > 
> > 
> >>These slogans are meaningless to (Monty) Python outsiders.
> [..]
> > A previous slogan was:
> > 
> >    Python: Programming the way Guido indented it.
> > 
> > Pretty meaningless to Python outsiders, I'd say.
> 
> No. Because an outsider will read 'intended it', at least I did.
> And that's not wrong, either :) The first poster (at least in my
> news reader) didn't tell anything about the purpose. For me a
> slogan's purpose is advertising and it's useless to advertise
> Python to people who like it already.

I have that T-shirt, and have worn it to non-geek events (e.g. when
acting as an adult advisor to a church youth conference).  It does draw
programmers into conversation, and hence offers opportunities for
efangelism.

-- 
Mark Jackson - http://www.alumni.caltech.edu/~mjackson
	Hate to interrupt with a spelling flame, but it's "Cheney,"
	not "Chaney."  It may only be one letter, but it's 998 faces.
					- Mike Peterson




From Mike at DeleteThis.Geary.com  Tue Apr  6 11:40:57 2004
From: Mike at DeleteThis.Geary.com (Michael Geary)
Date: Tue, 6 Apr 2004 08:40:57 -0700
Subject: Using python23 to develop an extension for an application that
	has python22 embedded
References: <aoa370h2r58lgb00jn9o1nfpg2titdgoss@4ax.com>
	<1073eeubflmchd5@corp.supernews.com>
	<o2g3709fpgp50sn561h0vf5e2dd6hcuo7g@4ax.com>
	<1073vcag51uufe9@corp.supernews.com>
	<ilb5701am2r6eej1riudbaolj1aphie6nb@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <1075js9on4our07@corp.supernews.com>

> Michael Geary wrote:
> > Anyway, I must be missing something here, because I would think
> > you could simply develop with your installed Python 2.2 and run
> > the code under your target application. You shouldn't have to be
> > worrying about any of the stuff you're dealing with.

John Underwood wrote:
> May be it comes down to the approach taken to debug an extension.
> (I'm new to Python - as you've probably guessed - and debugging
> mixed language situations.)
>
> To use the dubugging features of Visual Studio to debug my extension
> code, I thought I needed to use python22_d.dll (the debug version fo
> python22.dll). Is this correct? If so, I have not been able to produce
> it with Visual Studio .NET because of the problems VS has with 2.2.
>
> On the other hand, would it be better to debug the extension without
> the Python interface (in other words, debug the internals of the
> extension that are not dependent on Python) before attempting to test
> the Python interface (which could be performed with python22.dll)?

Oh! I think I just realized what I was missing. Is your Poser extension part
Python and part C/C++? I was assuming it was pure Python.

If it was pure Python, then of course it wouldn't matter if you had the
debug version of python22.dll. You'd use the debugging facilities that the
Python interpreter provides for Python code, which don't depend on having
the debug version of the interpreter.

If you were debugging code in the Python interpreter itself, then you would
certainly need the debug version of python22.dll.

But are you are developing both some Python code and an extension DLL
written in C/C++? In that case, it still wouldn't be necessary to have the
debug version of python22.dll, any more than you need a debug version of the
Windows DLLs such as kernel32.dll and user32.dll. You would just build a
debug version of *your* DLL. Set the Debugging options in your VS.NET
project properties to run Poser, and you'll be good to go. You can set
breakpoints in your DLL, trace through the code, etc. The only limitation
will be that you can't trace through the code inside python22.dll. Only if
you need to do that would you need a debug version of that DLL.

-Mike




From greg at invalid.invalid  Wed Apr 28 04:06:55 2004
From: greg at invalid.invalid (Greg Krohn)
Date: Wed, 28 Apr 2004 08:06:55 GMT
Subject: Don't understand wxPython ids
In-Reply-To: <408f3061$0$17258$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
References: <408ed938$0$17263$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
	<BOEjc.12559$eZ5.4366@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>
	<408f3061$0$17258$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
Message-ID: <zCJjc.12791$eZ5.2682@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>

Grant Edwards wrote:
> That's definitely getting closer to what I would expect in
> something designed in the last 15-20 years, though passing the
> binding as a parameter to wx.Button() sure seems like the
> obvious solution for 90% of the cases I run into. Perhaps I'm
> too used to Tk.

I totally agree with you. The Tk way seems much more natural.

>>I can only think of one reasn why they chose to use ids in the first 
>>place. Assigning many objects the same id allows you to use one EVT_* 
>>call for those objects. But is that really a useful feature? Who knows?
> 
> 
> That's about the only thing I could think of. The few
> situations where I'd have wanted to do someting like that I'd
> gladly put a for-loop iterating over a list of objects in
> exchange for being able to use single-line of code the other
> 90% of the time.

Ditto. You'd think it wouldn't be so hard to add a kwarg for it. At 
least if it's something you can add on the Python side. Hmmm.


greg


From PPNTWIMBXFFC at spammotel.com  Wed Apr 28 10:10:39 2004
From: PPNTWIMBXFFC at spammotel.com (Marco Aschwanden)
Date: Wed, 28 Apr 2004 16:10:39 +0200
Subject: Path ... where is my application's home dir?
References: <A128D751272CD411BC9200508BC2194D0338391A@escpl.tcp.com.ar>
Message-ID: <opr656z1bk35jo5o@news.gmane.org>

On Wed, 28 Apr 2004 10:46:42 -0300, Batista, Facundo 
<FBatista at uniFON.com.ar> wrote:

> [Marco Aschwanden]
>
> #- I want to store a file in the application directory. What is
> #- the easiest
> #- way to figure out, where my application is situated?
>
> You don't need that, just save it without a path and it'll fall in your
> current directory.

No, this is exactly the problem I had: I was opening the file with: 
file('./Text.txt', 'w')
But when you start the application through a windows desktop icon then the 
file will be created on the desktop!

>
> But if you need it for something else:
>
>>>> import os.path
>>>> os.path.curdir
> '.'
>>>> os.path.abspath(os.path.curdir)
> 'C:\\temp'
>
> .	Facundo

To make a day-long-story short: sys.argv[0] is the solution. (I always 
tested the wrong (old) version in which my changes had no effect.

Thanks,
Marco




From vpalazon at terra.es  Fri Apr 23 04:33:50 2004
From: vpalazon at terra.es (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Vicente_Palaz=F3n_Gonz=E1lez?=)
Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2004 10:33:50 +0200
Subject: tkinter: window always over the rest
Message-ID: <c6akde$4u5$2@sofora02.uji.es>

Hi,

I'm programming an application with Tkinter on a Linux platform and
I want to keep always a window over the rest of the windows of my 
application, even if it loses its focus, any idea?



From alan.gauld at btinternet.com  Sat Apr 10 15:33:18 2004
From: alan.gauld at btinternet.com (Alan Gauld)
Date: Sat, 10 Apr 2004 20:33:18 +0100
Subject: Simple Class Question - need clarity please
References: <EYFdc.51749$Id.27192@news-binary.blueyonder.co.uk>
	<2tce701vv505395hcr6dqtvc8ot0fdmkrk@4ax.com>
	<c57d1q$1euk$1@news.wplus.net>
	<CaKdc.4701$I83.74460@twister.tampabay.rr.com>
	<c58iha$gsf$1@news.wplus.net>
Message-ID: <urig70ppe9f6015e9vi73qht5esl2d4kiu@4ax.com>

On Sat, 10 Apr 2004 11:33:37 +0100, "Stevie_mac"
<no.email at please.com> wrote:

> very odd. Works for my now too. Is there some sort of cache that 
> holds onto old (bad) code?
> 

How were you running it? From an OS command prompt or from the
IDLE shell (or any other python) prompt? If the latter maybe you
needed to do a

>>> reload(mywindow)

But if from the OS prompt it should be fine.

Alan g.

Author of the Learn to Program website
http://www.freenetpages.co.uk/hp/alan.gauld


From rick.ratzel at magma-da.com  Tue Apr 20 12:30:29 2004
From: rick.ratzel at magma-da.com (Rick Ratzel)
Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 11:30:29 -0500
Subject: Getting output from embedded python program
In-Reply-To: <c62q6k$bav$1@balena.cs.interbusiness.it>
References: <2aa196bb.0404190554.74631058@posting.google.com>
	<4084B179.6020807@magma-da.com>
	<c62q6k$bav$1@balena.cs.interbusiness.it>
Message-ID: <40855026$0$3707$39cecf19@news.twtelecom.net>

    Thank you!  I have never used PyRun_File(), but from the docs it 
looks like it would work in a similar fashion (and may allow you to 
leave behind a file for debugging later).

    Like the presentation suggests, you might want to try Elmer for 
automatically generating a "native" C interface for a Python module.  I 
don't know the details of your project, but in most of my experiences it 
is nicer/easier than using the Python/C API directly.

Rick.


Roberto wrote:
> Hi there,
> 
> 
>>http://elmer.sourceforge.net/PyCon04/elmer_pycon04.html ) ...obviously,
>>if you evaluate a print statement, you will still get output on stdout
> 
> 
> This tutorial is quite good!
> 
> The same thing can be done even with the py_runfile ??
> I'm triyng to do such things with no result!
> 
> Bye,
> Roberto
> 
> 
> "Rick L. Ratzel" <rick.ratzel at magma-da.com> ha scritto nel messaggio
> news:4084B179.6020807 at magma-da.com...
> 
>>Kim wrote:
>>
>>>Hi everyone,
>>>I'm writing a embeded python program, and I want to evaluate some
>>>expression by calling function:
>>>
>>>PyRun_SimpleString("print 'hello'")
>>>
>>>I don't want to output it to stdout but putting it into string somehow
>>>sothat I can process it.
>>>
>>
>>    Here is a way to get the result of a Python expression eval from C
>>(derived from example at
>>http://elmer.sourceforge.net/PyCon04/elmer_pycon04.html ) ...obviously,
>>if you evaluate a print statement, you will still get output on stdout
>>though:
>>
>>...
>>PyObject* evalModule;
>>PyObject* evalDict;
>>PyObject* evalVal;
>>char* retString;
>>
>>PyRun_SimpleString( "result = 'foo' + 'bar'" )
>>
>>evalModule = PyImport_AddModule( (char*)"__main__" );
>>evalDict = PyModule_GetDict( evalModule );
>>evalVal = PyDict_GetItemString( evalDict, "result" );
>>
>>if( evalVal == NULL ) {
>>     PyErr_Print();
>>     exit( 1 );
>>
>>} else {
>>     /*
>>      * PyString_AsString returns char* repr of PyObject, which should
>>      * not be modified in any way...this should probably be copied for
>>      * safety
>>      */
>>     retString = PyString_AsString( evalVal );
>>}
>>...
>>
>>    In this case, you need to know that the expression will evaluate to
>>a string result in order to call PyString_AsString().  If you don't know
>>this, you will have to check the type of the PyObject first.
>>
>>
>>
> 
> 
> 


From jbperez808 at yahoo.com  Wed Apr  7 17:35:06 2004
From: jbperez808 at yahoo.com (Jon Perez)
Date: Thu, 08 Apr 2004 05:35:06 +0800
Subject: Indent testers needed (Prothon)
In-Reply-To: <Unqbc.131025$cx5.57643@fed1read04>
References: <Unqbc.131025$cx5.57643@fed1read04>
Message-ID: <c51rpj$2nk5rd$1@ID-180326.news.uni-berlin.de>

Just a question for the pro-tabs people, don't you find it
annoying to keep changing your editor's tab settings if you
need to view code for which the default tab setting does
not match yours?

Further, what is it about all spaces that bothers you?
Perhaps the pro-spaces people can explain how they deal
with it.  I used to be pro-tabs but quickly realized the
evils of their usage.


From peter at engcorp.com  Wed Apr 21 12:49:11 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2004 12:49:11 -0400
Subject: saving interpreter source?
In-Reply-To: <pan.2004.04.21.16.36.47.928286@asdf.asdf>
References: <pan.2004.04.21.16.36.47.928286@asdf.asdf>
Message-ID: <EdidnQQ_h52aOxvdRVn-sQ@powergate.ca>

Garett wrote:

> Hello, I would like to be able to save source typed into the interpreter
> to a file. Kind of like marshal, but I would like to have the file contain
> the source so I can edit it later. Something like inspect.getsource() but
> for source typed into the interpreter, not imported from a module. Is this
> possible? Any ideas are greatly appreciated. -Garett

Last time I used it, Chris Gonnerman's readline replacement kept a
history by default:

http://newcenturycomputers.net/projects/readline.html

-Peter


From robin at SPAMREMOVEjessikat.fsnet.co.uk  Thu Apr 15 04:06:48 2004
From: robin at SPAMREMOVEjessikat.fsnet.co.uk (Robin Becker)
Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2004 09:06:48 +0100
Subject: Difficulty Finding Python Developers
In-Reply-To: <60dfb6f6.0404141541.79cbb54f@posting.google.com>
References: <65cbc3dd.0404140641.3501fde8@posting.google.com>
	<60dfb6f6.0404141541.79cbb54f@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <407E4298.1070209@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk>

Carl Banks wrote:

> 
> Seriously, it seems to me that headhunters are machines designed to
> funnel in the drones colleges spit out.  I don't think they're all
> that interested, or knowledgable, of less common skills.  I think
> you'll have luck posting the job on Monster.
> 
> Also, I agree with Peter Hanson here.  I am very amazed (although not
> surprised at all) that firms are often reluctant to switch to a
> language like Python because there are relatively few people with
> experience in it.  C and C++ are so bug-prone (buffer overruns,
> anyone? segfaults?) I think it would be in a firm's best interests to
> hire those C and C++ drones and train them for Python; the cost of
> training someone in Python probably would more than offset the cost of
> fixing all those bugs.
> 
> 

There was an advert recently here in the UK for a Python developer 
(around ?25-35k). In the advert it stated explicitly that Python 
experience was not required. I followed the link and it led to the 
headhunter who got us our latest recruit. So perhaps even he has begun 
to understand the assimilability of Python.
-- 
Robin Becker


From david at rebirthing.co.nz  Sat Apr 10 11:09:20 2004
From: david at rebirthing.co.nz (David McNab)
Date: Sun, 11 Apr 2004 03:09:20 +1200
Subject: C-Python->Java bridging (SPIRO update)
Message-ID: <40780E20.5070806@rebirthing.co.nz>

Hi folks,

Quick note to announce that SPIRO - the simple python/jython-capable ORB 
that allows C-python progs to access java objects (via a TCP connection 
and Jython) - has now been updated to support exceptions and callbacks.

(The only major limitation left is that you can't subclass across 
server/client or client/client boundaries.)

Info, Manual, downloads etc - www.freenet.org.nz/python/spiro

Cheers
David



From tundra at tundraware.com  Sat Apr 24 17:05:56 2004
From: tundra at tundraware.com (Tim Daneliuk)
Date: 24 Apr 2004 17:05:56 EDT
Subject: [ANN]: 'tconfpy' 1.181 Released
Message-ID: <mailman.1082983868.22875.clpa-moderators@python.org>

'tconfpy' 1.181 is released and available at:

     http://www.tundraware.com/Software/tconfpy/

This is the first public release of the program.  A FreeBSD port
is also being submitted.

'tconfpy' is an advanced configuration file parser and validator for
Python programs.  By using 'tconfpy', Python programmers can provide
their users with an external configuration file for setting program
options, defining defaults, and so on.  'tconfpy' offloads the
responsibility for parsing and validating a configuration file from
the main application. The Python programmer need only deal
with the results and any errors or warnings generated during the
parsing process.

'tconfpy' recognizes a rich configuration language and provides a
number of sophisticated programming features including:

     - The ability to breakup large configurations into smaller pieces
       via the '.include' directive.

     - Support for string substitution and concatenation throughout the
       configuration file via string variables.  Variables may be
       locally declared, a reference to a symbol already in the
       symbol table, or a reference to an environment variable.

     - A complete set of conditional directives for selective
       processing of configuration options. Both existential ("If
       variable exists ...") and comparison ("if string equals/does not
       equal string ...") forms are provided, as is an '.else'
       directive.

     - The ability to instantiate program options prior to reading a
       configuration file and make them mandatory by declaring those
       options as Read-Only.

     - Optional type validation to ensure that a user enters a value
       appropriate for boolean, integer, floating point, string, or
       complex data.

     - Optional value validation to ensure that a configuration option
       is either within a specified range or one of an enumerated set
       of possible values.  For configuration options which are string
       types, 'tconfpy', can optionally specify min/max string lengths
       and enumerate a set of legitimate regular expressions that the
       string must match.

     - The ability to define an arbitrary number of lexical namespaces.

     - The ability to use the various features of 'tconfpy' as a pre-
       processor for any other text (including source code for other
       programming languages and Python itself) via the '.literal'
       directive.

     - An optional debug capability which returns detailed information
       about each line parsed.

     - Includes a test driver program for learning how to program with
       'tconfpy' and for debugging and testing your own configuration
       files.

     - Comes with over 30 pages of documentation including a
       Programmer's API Reference and a User's Guide to the 'tconfpy'
       configuration language.  Documentation is provided in several
       formats including Unix 'man', Plain Text, html, pdf, and
       Postscript.

'tconfpy' is a Pure Python module and is platform-independent.
It should work identically on any platform on which Python runs.


----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Tim Daneliuk     tundra at tundraware.com
PGP Key:         http://www.tundraware.com/PGP/




From loic at fejoz.net  Wed Apr 28 12:35:24 2004
From: loic at fejoz.net (Yermat)
Date: Wed, 28 Apr 2004 18:35:24 +0200
Subject: PyChecker does STATIC analysis?
In-Reply-To: <3064b51d.0404280728.5fb7539e@posting.google.com>
References: <3064b51d.0404280728.5fb7539e@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <c6omkq$gqj$1@arcturus.ciril.fr>

beliavsky at aol.com wrote:
> If I run PyChecker on the following program, stored in xtry.py, 
> 
> m = 10000000
> k = 0
> for i in xrange(m):
>     k = k + i
> print k
> x = range(3)
> print x[3]
> 


> the output is
> 
> 49999995000000
> 
> Warnings...
> 
> xtry:1: NOT PROCESSED UNABLE TO IMPORT
> Processing xtry...
>   Caught exception importing module xtry:
>     File "H:\Energy\rao\python\Lib\site-packages\pychecker\checker.py",
> line 530, in setupMainCode()
>       module = imp.load_module(self.moduleName, file, filename, smt)
>     File "xtry.py", line 7
>       print x[3]
>   IndexError: list index out of range
> 
> 
> I am surprised that PyChecker actually needs to execute the code block
> 
> for i in xrange(m):
>     k = k + i
> print k
> 
> before finding the out-of-bounds error. I have seen PyChecker
> described as a "static analysis" tool, and it does find some problems
> that such a tool ought to. But it seems that for the simple program I
> have shown, it basically runs the program, and I could just run the
> Python program to find the same errors. An aspect of Python
> programming that sometimes frustrates me is that a program will run,
> perhaps for a few minutes, before stopping because of a misspelled
> variable or an out-of-bounds variable. It seems that currently,
> PyChecker will not solve this problem. I wish there were a tool that
> did (and would be willing to pay for it).
> 
> The Lahey/Fujitsu Fortran 95 compiler is able to catch the
> out-of-bounds error at COMPILE time for an analogous Fortran program.

You're right but now try on :

def main():
	m = 10000000
	k = 0
	for i in xrange(m):
	    k = k + i
	print k
	x = range(3)
	print x[3]

if __name__=='__main__':
	main()

And it should work !
PyChecker import your file and does not just do a source checking...

-- 
Yermat




From http  Fri Apr 30 05:11:00 2004
From: http (Paul Rubin)
Date: 30 Apr 2004 02:11:00 -0700
Subject: Cross-Language Encryption: Python/Java
References: <mailman.116.1083258236.25742.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <7xd65pn84b.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

Daniel Orner <cs993442 at cs.yorku.ca> writes:
> 	Does anyone have a good idea about what my options might be
> here? Truthfully I don't know a whole lot about encryption algorithms,
> so if you can point me to something I can adapt without having to
> understand all the niggling details, that would really be great.

Use an SSL or SSH socket.  Don't mess with application-level
encryption unless there's a good reason for it AND you know what
you're doing.


From jdhunter at ace.bsd.uchicago.edu  Thu Apr 29 10:15:47 2004
From: jdhunter at ace.bsd.uchicago.edu (John Hunter)
Date: Thu, 29 Apr 2004 09:15:47 -0500
Subject: MATLAB2Python
In-Reply-To: <715kc.3$i6.251@psinet-eu-nl> ("Nick Carter"'s message of "Thu,
	29 Apr 2004 11:45:22 +0100")
References: <D2Xjc.28117$Qc.1080799@twister1.libero.it>
	<1090ivtaa0b2e26@corp.supernews.com> <40904EDE.9060407@erols.com>
	<715kc.3$i6.251@psinet-eu-nl>
Message-ID: <m2wu3y6fak.fsf@mother.paradise.lost>

>>>>> "Nick" == Nick Carter <nick.carter at roke.co.uk> writes:

    Nick> Also look at Matplotlib for Matlab-like plotting:
    Nick> http://matplotlib.sourceforge.net/

I find python + numeric/numarray + MLAb + scipy + matplotlib to be a
very workable replacement for matlab, but I'm biased :-)

Actually, I used to work all the time in matlab and wrote some fairly
complex applications in it.  I just sort of hit the wall at some point
when I was trying to do networking, dbases, complex data structures,
and so on, in matlab.  You *can* do it with the matlab + the built-in
JVM, but it's not easy, pretty, or fast.

At some point I found myself doing all my work in python and dumping
the results to data files for plotting in matlab.    Since that is a
frustrating solution, I bit the bullet and wrote matplotlib, with the
goal of making plots that look as good as matlab's, and were as easy
to create.

Here is a little comparison of a script to generate some white noise,
convolve it with a low pass filter, and make two plots, one of the
time series and one of the power spectrum.

First in matlab

    dt = 0.01;
    t = [0:dt:10];
    nse = randn(size(t));
    r = exp(-t/0.05);
    cnse = conv(nse, r)*dt;
    cnse = cnse(1:length(t));
    s = 0.1*sin(2*pi*t) + cnse;

    figure(1)
    plot(t,s)

    figure(2)
    psd(s, 512, 1/dt)

And then in matplotlib with a little help from numeric and friends

    from matplotlib.matlab import *

    dt = 0.01
    t = arange(0,10,dt)
    nse = randn(len(t))
    r = exp(-t/0.05)

    cnse = convolve(nse, r, mode=2)*dt
    cnse = cnse[:len(t)]
    s = 0.1*sin(2*pi*t) + cnse

    figure(1)
    plot(t,s)

    figure(2)
    psd(s, 512, 1/dt)

    show()

Cheers,
John Hunter



From peter at engcorp.com  Fri Apr 16 00:33:48 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2004 00:33:48 -0400
Subject: Difficulty Finding Python Developers
In-Reply-To: <7x7jwg7ipn.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
References: <65cbc3dd.0404140641.3501fde8@posting.google.com>
	<5d83790c.0404150701.605782a7@posting.google.com>
	<roy-A17A1C.12565615042004@reader2.panix.com>
	<7xpta8hqe7.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<roy-A844BA.18263715042004@reader2.panix.com>
	<7xsmf4kbac.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<roy-B8AA1E.21270915042004@reader2.panix.com>
	<7x7jwg7ipn.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <GfSdnRKGHIm2_-LdRVn-gg@powergate.ca>

Paul Rubin wrote:

> Roy Smith <roy at panix.com> writes:
> 
>>My assertion was that you can learn enough to do useful work in a 
>>weekend.  You're saying that there are situations where you need to know 
>>more.  These are not mutually exclusive statements.
> 
> They're not, but the discussion was serious production projects.  

I thought the discussion was a 3-month project.  To me, that's
definitely not something I would classify as a "serious production
project".  I know, I know, the length alone shouldn't be enough
to call it serious or production or not.  It's just not the term
I would apply to something that short.  "Experiment", maybe, or
"quickie", or "co-op student project" or something...

-Peter


From herrn at gmx.net  Sun Apr  4 14:38:40 2004
From: herrn at gmx.net (Marco Herrn)
Date: 4 Apr 2004 18:38:40 GMT
Subject: user authentication via /etc/passwd|/etc/shadow
References: <c4ork9$2kssti$1@ID-165840.news.uni-berlin.de>
	<c4phmr$k6i$04$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <c4pkng$2kt4q4$1@ID-165840.news.uni-berlin.de>

On 2004-04-04, Martin v. L?wis <martin at v.loewis.de> wrote:
> Marco Herrn wrote:
>> I want to write a program where I authenticate users via the standard
>> unix system accounts. I didn't find a module providing this
>> functionality. Is there such a module available? If not, how can I
>> achieve this?
>
> You need a combination of the pwd and crypt modules.
It seems that the pwd module can only access /etc/passwd. If the
passwords are stored in /etc/shadow, it doesn't work. Is there a way to
access shadow passwords, too?

Marco

-- 
Marco Herrn             herrn at gmx.net
(GnuPG/PGP-signed and crypted mail preferred)
Key ID: 0x94620736



From sp at sunguru.com  Mon Apr 12 14:38:46 2004
From: sp at sunguru.com (Stefan)
Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2004 21:38:46 +0300
Subject: compiling Python 2.3.3 Solaris 9 x86 question 
In-Reply-To: <7Axec.931$_B6.234@reader1.news.jippii.net>
References: <7Axec.931$_B6.234@reader1.news.jippii.net>
Message-ID: <9lBec.1014$gy3.279@reader1.news.jippii.net>


Regarding this problem looks like 'configure' does not pickup
Solaris's curses library.
I had to manually pass to configure command libncurses library


LDFLAGS="-L/opt/sfw/lib -R/opt/sfw/lib -lncurses" 
CPPFLAGS="-I/optsfw/include" ./configure --prefix=/usr/local 
--with-threads --enable-shared

Does this mean that python needs libncurses and can not work with 
Solaris curses library !?


thanks,
stefan


Stefan wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> I am trying to build Python 2.3.3 on Solaris 9 x86. Everything goes fine
> except that I have some issues with curses module ...
> 
> 
> 
> I had to fix configure script in order to get it running by changing
> 
> SunOS/5.6 in SunOS/5.*
> 
> eg.
> "
> case $ac_sys_system/$ac_sys_release in
>   # On OpenBSD, select(2) is not available if _XOPEN_SOURCE is defined,
>   # even though select is a POSIX function. Reported by J. Ribbens.
>   # Reconfirmed for OpenBSD 3.3 by Zachary Hamm, for 3.4 by Jason Ish.
>   OpenBSD/2.* | OpenBSD/3.[01234])
>     define_xopen_source=no;;
>   # On Solaris 2.6, sys/wait.h is inconsistent in the usage
>   # of union __?sigval. Reported by Stuart Bishop.
>   SunOS/5.6)
> "
> 
> 
> Im building python using 2.95 the GNU compiler.
> The configure command was something like:
> 
> ./configure --prefix=/usr/local --with-threads --enable-shared
> 
> My LD_LIBRARY_PATH is defined as:
> 
> /opt/sfw/lib:/usr/sfw/lib
> 
> 
> ---
> 
> I have found that after compilation there are some warnings about curses 
> module ...
> 
> 
> *** WARNING: renaming "_curses" since importing it failed: ld.so.1: 
> ./python: fatal: relocation error: file 
> build/lib.solaris-2.9-i86pc-2.3/_curses.so: symbol newscr: referenced 
> symbol not found
> building '_curses_panel' extension
> 
> *** WARNING: renaming "_curses_panel" since importing it failed: No 
> module named _curses
> 
> ... which, I think, will end by having no curses module available.
> 
>  From help() found out these:
> 
> 
> 
> help> modules
> 
> Please wait a moment while I gather a list of all available modules...
> 
> 
> ...
> _curses_failed      getpass             py_compile
> _curses_panel_failed
> 
> ...
> 
> 
> Anyone any ideas about this error? Do I have to instruct configure 
> script to pick up some libcurses at the first run ... or my 
> LD_LIBRARY_PATH is not correct ?
> 
> thanks
> stefan
> 


From nytimes at swiftdsl.com.au  Wed Apr 14 11:15:30 2004
From: nytimes at swiftdsl.com.au (huy)
Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2004 01:15:30 +1000
Subject: Reommended compiler toolkit
In-Reply-To: <c5g8uu$aak$1@news2.netvision.net.il>
References: <c5g8uu$aak$1@news2.netvision.net.il>
Message-ID: <407d5395$0$27643$61ce578d@news.syd.swiftdsl.com.au>

Miki Tebeka wrote:
> Hello All,
> 
> I'm looking for a pure python compiler toolkit (lexer + parser, like 
> flex + bison).
> 
> I've seen many:
> ply (which I like most)
> SPARK
> Yapps
> PyLR
> kwParsing
> Plex
> FlexModule
> 
> Which one do you recommend?
> Thanks.
> Miki

Have a look at http://dparser.sourceforge.net/

It supports BNF (EBNF?) notation which IMO is nicer then the PLY grammar 
specs. I haven't tried dparser yet, so let us know how it is (compared 
to PLY) if you decide to use it.

Cheers,

Huy


From spamtrap at nowhere.net  Wed Apr 14 09:22:25 2004
From: spamtrap at nowhere.net (Steven)
Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2004 14:22:25 +0100
Subject: pyKDE won't build
Message-ID: <dRafc.246$Z07.240@news-binary.blueyonder.co.uk>

Hi folks, 
I'm trying to install pyKDE.
python, pyQT and sip are installed and working.

I run python build.py and get the error shown at the end. 
sip -V gives 3.10.1 (3.10.1-192)
PyQt version is 3.11

>From the traceback it detects the wrong sip version, but I don't know how to
make it detect the correct version. There is only one version of sip on my
system. (slackware linux 9.1)
I don't understand python, but need pyKDE to make something else work. 

Any help greatfully appreciated,

Steven

-------------startofpaste-------

Building PyKDE 3.8 on linux2.

Python version is 2.3
Python parent directory is /usr/lib/python2.3
Python library directory is /usr/lib/python2.3/config
Python include directory is /usr/include/python2.3

Home directory is /home/sr

sip code generator path (sip) is /usr/bin
sip version is 3.1
sip lib directory (libsip*) is /usr/lib/python2.3/site-packages
sip include directory (sipQt.h) is /usr/include/python2.3

Qt3 parent directory is /usr/lib/qt-3.2.3
Qt3 lib directory (libqt-mt.so.3) is /usr/lib/qt-3.2.3/lib
Qt3 include directory (qglobal.h) is /usr/lib/qt-3.2.3/include
Qt version is 3.2.3

PyQt lib directory is /usr/lib/python2.3/site-packages
PyQt lib version is 3.11
PyQt sip files directory is /usr/local/PyQt-x11-gpl-3.11/sip
PyQt sip version is 3.11.0

KDE3 parent directory is /opt/kde
KDE3 library directory (libkdecore.so) is /opt/kde/lib
KDE3 include directory (kapplication.h) is /opt/kde/include
KDE version is 3.2.1

make program is make
Makefile generator path (qmake) is /usr/lib/qt-3.2.3/bin
Install directory is /usr/lib/python2.3/site-packages


An internal error occured.  Review the installation documentation or
report all the output from the program, including the traceback,
to the PyKDE mailing list: <pykde at mats.imk.fraunhofer.de>. Thanks.


Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "build.py", line 1038, in ?
    main (sys.argv)
  File "build.py", line 990, in main
    dis.sanity (Release, opts)
  File "build/discover.py", line 724, in sanity
    raise DiscoverError, msg % (self.sipBin.vers, "this", base)
discover.DiscoverError: sip version (3.1) not compatible with this version
(3.8)

------------------end--------



From grzegorz at ee.ualberta.ca  Sat Apr 17 10:49:06 2004
From: grzegorz at ee.ualberta.ca (Grzegorz Dostatni)
Date: Sat, 17 Apr 2004 10:49:06 -0400
Subject: Static Modules...
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0404171006210.27811-100000@e5-05.ee.ualberta.ca>


I had an idea yesterday. (Yes, I know. Sorry).

If we don't need to declare variables as having a certain type, why do we
need to import modules into the program?  Isn't the "import sys" redundant
if all I want is to call "sys.setrecursionlimit(5000)" ? Why couldn't we
just try loading the module of a name "sys" to see if it exists and re-try
the command?

I tried just that. This is meant as a proof of concept (I called it
autoload.py)

-------- BEGIN HERE ------
import sys, inspect

def autoload_exc(type, value, traceback):
	modulename = value.args[0].split()[1][1:-1]
	f_locals = traceback.tb_frame.f_locals
	f_globals = traceback.tb_frame.f_globals

	exec "import " + modulename in f_locals, f_globals
	exec traceback.tb_frame.f_code in f_locals, f_globals

sys.excepthook = autoload_exc

------- END HERE -------

I know there are problems here. Checking if we have a NameError exception
is the most glaring one. Still this works for simple things as a proof of
concept.

Here is an example of a simple session:

>>> import autoload
>>> sys.setrecursionlimit(5000)
>>> dir(time)
['__doc__', '__name__', 'accept2dyear', 'altzone', 'asctime', 'clock',
'ctime',
'daylight', 'gmtime', 'localtime', 'mktime', 'sleep', 'strftime',
'strptime', 's
truct_time', 'time', 'timezone', 'tzname']
>>> os.path.join("usr","local","bin")
'usr\\local\\bin'

Any comments?

Greg

Advice is what we ask for when we already know the answer but wish we
didn't.
          -- Erica Jong (How to Save Your Own Life, 1977)




From junkmail at solumslekt.org  Thu Apr 22 12:12:36 2004
From: junkmail at solumslekt.org (Leif B. Kristensen)
Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2004 18:12:36 +0200
Subject: Newbie to client/server
References: <p6Qhc.39822$on5.30998@newssvr29.news.prodigy.com>
Message-ID: <caShc.26815$zf6.111790@news4.e.nsc.no>

John Fabiani wrote:

> I don't understand how to get data from multi tables for my
> forms/windows. I have been reading how to connect and get data (using
> a SQL statement)
> from MySQL.  I think I understand.
> Now the question if I have a form (i.e. AR invoice) that requires data
> from
> more than one table (or I need multi SQL statements) where do I put
> it.  It
> appears that I can have only one cursor.  This must be wrong. I can
> understand that I can reuse the connect object but the returning
> information ends up into the same cursor.  I don't want code (just how
> to do it right) but when I do something like the following it does not
> work: Con=myconnection_string
> Cursor=con.cursor()
> Cursor.execute(somestatement)
> newCursor=con.cursor()
> newCursor.execute(somestatement)  #does not work

I'm not quite sure that I understand your problem, perhaps you should
try to state it a little more clearly. But if you want to use some
foreign key from the first query to gather some information from
another table where the same number is the primary key, this is most
easily accomplished by defining a function that fetches that
information.

For instance, I've got a main query that looks like this:

db=MySQLdb.connect(host="localhost", user="xxx", passwd="yyy", db="zzz")
cursor=db.cursor()
cursor.execute("select * from event \
                where person_id1=%d \
                order by sort_date" % (person))
result=cursor.fetchall()
                .
                .
                .
    for rec in result:
        mlb.insert(END, (get_event_name(rec[1]), \
                            # some other stuff
                            get_place(rec[7]), \
                            rec[8]))

One of the columns in the _event_ table holds a key called _place_id_
(rec[7] above), which is the primary key of the table _place_. When I
need the actual place string, I send a request to a function called
get_place():

def get_place(x):
    c=db.cursor()
    c.execute("select place_lvl1, place_lvl2, \
                place_lvl3, place_lvl4, place_lvl5 \
                from place where place_id = %d" % (x))
    res=c.fetchone()
    return ', '.join([p for p in res if p and p[0] != '-'])

In MySQL databases, you often have to string up several queries like
this to get what you want.

regards
-- 
Leif Biberg Kristensen
http://solumslekt.org/
Validare necesse est


From Andreas.Ames at tenovis.com  Fri Apr 16 07:36:13 2004
From: Andreas.Ames at tenovis.com (Ames Andreas (MPA/DF))
Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2004 13:36:13 +0200
Subject: [Q] Extension: Refcount for exception types
Message-ID: <788E231C269961418F38D3E360D165259B4085@tndefr-ws00021.tenovis.corp.lan>

Hi all,

I'm currently building an extension module by hand and am confused by
the fact that as well xxmodule.c as structmodule.c and other examples
increment the refcount of the exception type(s) they are defining.
I. e. from xxmodule.c:

        if (ErrorObject == NULL) {
                ErrorObject = PyErr_NewException("xx.error", NULL, NULL);
                if (ErrorObject == NULL)
                        return;
        }
        Py_INCREF(ErrorObject);
        ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ I mean this one.
        PyModule_AddObject(m, "error", ErrorObject);

I know that PyModule_AddObject steals a reference, but now
ErrorObject's refcount should be 2, isn't it?  I just fail to see
how the refcount can return to 0.  I'm sure this is simple to explain,
so please enlighten me, why this isn't a leak.


cheers,

aa




From loic at fejoz.net  Tue Apr  6 06:15:42 2004
From: loic at fejoz.net (Yermat)
Date: Tue, 06 Apr 2004 12:15:42 +0200
Subject: Verifying temporal properties. Need problems.
In-Reply-To: <Xns94C374D1DEF9Cbjornhb3yahoose@193.10.250.152>
References: <68771ca.0404010839.39b0c24f@posting.google.com>
	<c4jrm2$7n7$1@arcturus.ciril.fr>
	<Xns94C0A74C3C673bjornhb3yahoose@193.10.250.152>
	<c4mu9p$29us$1@biggoron.nerim.net>
	<Xns94C374D1DEF9Cbjornhb3yahoose@193.10.250.152>
Message-ID: <c4u01b$kfc$1@arcturus.ciril.fr>

Bjorn Heimir Bjornsson wrote:
> Yermat <loic at yermat.net1.nerim.net> wrote in
> 
>>Instead of searching the workflow yourself you might look at PyPY.
>>There is a class (see translator.py) that construct such a flow.
> 
> 
> Thanks Loic for pointing out pypy's controlflow. I will check if I can use 
> it. I had searched for something like this for Python but never found 
> anything.
> 
> 
>>On monday, I will show you a kind of workflow I'm creating in case
>>mine is more complete than yours...
> 
> 
> It would be really interesting to see what can be done with pypy's 
> controlflow.
> 
> Bjorn

Hi,
At http://www.fejoz.net/Loic/Divers, you will find a little example of 
the output of PyPy and output of my own program.
There is also my own program which only use Python AST where as PyPY is 
more concrete.

Good luck !
Lo?c



From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Fri Apr  9 13:35:16 2004
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 9 Apr 2004 13:35:16 -0400
Subject: python thread scheduler?
References: <pan.2004.04.07.10.19.01.609000@project2501.cor>
	<pan.2004.04.07.10.27.57.297000@project2501.cor>
Message-ID: <c56msk$9e1$1@panix1.panix.com>

In article <pan.2004.04.07.10.27.57.297000 at project2501.cor>,
project2501  <project2501 at project2501.cor> wrote:
>
>to clarifgy, i'm seeing responec times as low as 0.3 seconds when the
>client has 5 worker threads... rising to an average of about 8 seconds
>with 50 threads... and more ith 100 threads.
>
>here is what the python threads do (simplified):
>	while (work units remaining):
>		take time
>		send request to server
>		get responce from server
>		take time
>		record time difference
>		sleep for a small interval (to yield, and to vary the request rate)
>		reduce work unit by 1

Since this is almost entirely I/O bound, it *should* scale well with
threads.  Question: is your server on the same machine as the client?
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

Why is this newsgroup different from all other newsgroups?


From jack at performancedrivers.com  Mon Apr 12 15:23:29 2004
From: jack at performancedrivers.com (Jack Diederich)
Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2004 15:23:29 -0400
Subject: String + number split
In-Reply-To: <mfydnfKTtqtWRufdRVn-uQ@powergate.ca>
References: <2SAec.70005$Id.6002@news-binary.blueyonder.co.uk>
	<mfydnfKTtqtWRufdRVn-uQ@powergate.ca>
Message-ID: <20040412192329.GA4735@performancedrivers.com>

On Mon, Apr 12, 2004 at 02:11:23PM -0400, Peter Hansen wrote:
> Stevie_mac wrote:
> >Hello again, I can do this, but I'm sure there is a much more elegant 
> >way...
> >
> >A string, with a number on the end, strip off the number & discard any 
> >underscores
> >
> >eg...
> >
> >font12        becomes         ('font',12)
> >arial_14      becomes        ('arial',14)
> 
> It's impossible to say if it's more elegant, since you didn't
> post your attempt.  (Homework?  I'll assume not.)
> 
> >>> import re
> >>> def fsplit(fs):
> ...   return tuple(re.split('(\d+)', fs.replace('_', ''))[:2])
> ...
> >>> fsplit('font12')
> ('font', '12')
> >>> fsplit('arial_14')
> ('arial', '14')

There are many ways you could write the regexp, this is one I find
easist to read.

def mysplit(instr):
  # one or more alpha followed by zero or more non-digits followed by one or more digits
  grouper = re.compile('([a-zA-Z]+)\D*(\d+)')
  match_ob = grouper.match(instr)
  name = match_ob.groups(1)
  num = int(match_ob.groups(2))
  return (name, num)

>>> mysplit('arial_14')
('arial', 14)

I carry arround a 'coerce' method, that looks like this
def coerce(types, inputs):
  return map(lambda f,val:f(val), types, inputs)

which changes the last few lines in mysplit into
  return coerce([str, int], match_ob.groups())

-jackdied




From rs at overlook.homelinux.net  Mon Apr 26 11:02:25 2004
From: rs at overlook.homelinux.net (Rusty Shackleford)
Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2004 15:02:25 GMT
Subject: how to add new print %b format to python?
Message-ID: <slrnc8q9qp.htc.rs@frank.overlook.homelinux.net>

I have a Summer in front of me without any school, and I'd like to add a
new format for python print strings that will show any number in a
binary representation.  For example:

>>> '%b' % 3
11
>>> '%b' % 5
101

You get the idea.  I've written functions that return strings, so that
part is done, but where do I go to tinker with the python interpreter to
add this new format?

Please don't argue with me about whether this is an advisable goal in
itself -- I'm using it as a method to learn about the internals of the
python language.


-- 
My public key:
gpg --recv-keys --keyserver www.mandrakesecure.net 0x8D10BFD5


From tim.golden at viacom-outdoor.co.uk  Wed Apr 28 11:33:16 2004
From: tim.golden at viacom-outdoor.co.uk (Tim Golden)
Date: Wed, 28 Apr 2004 16:33:16 +0100
Subject: Path ... where is my application's home dir?
Message-ID: <F1921F85572CB04D9F55B14BDC76B3E443485D@tdi_nt9.internal.viacom-outdoor.co.uk>

>On Wed, 28 Apr 2004 14:44:30 +0100, Tim Golden 
><tim.golden at viacom-outdoor.co.uk> wrote:
>
>>> I want to store a file in the application directory. What is
>>> the easiest
>>> way to figure out, where my application is situated?
>>>
>>> sys.argv[0] does not work for my purposes... do you have any
>>> other ideas.
>>
>> a) Why doesn't argv[0] work?
>
>Because I am stupid and tested always the old/unchanged 
>version where the 
>sys.argv had no impact. 8o((((
>Thanks, your a) hint - it was the kick that I needed! The look over my 
>shoulder!
>
>But I still wonder: Suppose sys.argv[0] wouldn't work. What 
>would be the 
>easiest way to find out where an application lies?
>
>Ideas:
>1. going through sys.path and checking whether the application 
>file is in 
>a dir
>2. or is there a module method, that tells you where it is stored?

As far as I know, it's effectively impossible: the "application" you're
running is the Python executable, so even if you were do some fancy
stuff with the win32 process/thread API and work out who you were
and where you were running, that'd probably give you:
c:/pythonxx/python.exe.
It's down to the application (ie the python executable) to store its
command-line, and it does that in sys.argv[0].

Having said that, if you were desperate, you could probably fish
through the Windows process info to find the full command line
which spawned the thing you're running, and then work out from
its parameters whether or not the script (which would be the first
non-switch parameter, if any) was given an explicit path -- in which
case, there you are -- or not -- in which case, os.getcwd ().

But I doubt it's worth it.

TJG


________________________________________________________________________
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From http  Thu Apr 15 17:39:44 2004
From: http (Paul Rubin)
Date: 15 Apr 2004 14:39:44 -0700
Subject: Difficulty Finding Python Developers
References: <65cbc3dd.0404140641.3501fde8@posting.google.com>
	<5d83790c.0404150701.605782a7@posting.google.com>
	<roy-A17A1C.12565615042004@reader2.panix.com>
Message-ID: <7xpta8hqe7.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

Roy Smith <roy at panix.com> writes:
> I would put it slightly differently.
> 
> With Python, you can learn a useful subset of the language in a weekend.  
> Control flow, statement syntax, and how to define and use functions.  
> Assuming you're already familiar with the concepts of classes and 
> exceptions (and just need to learn how python implements them), those 
> are probably another weekend.

I think anyone using Python in a serious production project has to be
ready to extend or debug the library modules and/or write new C
extensions.  There are just too many surprising little gaps in the
standard library and you run into them when you least expect it.  And
the C API is quite cumbersome and not something a typical programmer
can really come up to speed on in a weekend.  If there's already
programmers on staff who can deal with that stuff, then a new person
joining doesn't have to worry about it.  But if the project is calling
for a hired gun to show up for 3 months, chances are they want someone
who's already expert and doesn't need ANY ramp-up time.


From rzantow at ntelos.net  Wed Apr 21 10:53:18 2004
From: rzantow at ntelos.net (rzed)
Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2004 14:53:18 GMT
Subject: raw_input
References: <mailman.779.1082425126.20120.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <Xns94D26F20C52ABrzed@63.223.5.95>

Marcello Pietrobon <teiffel at attglobal.net> wrote in
news:mailman.779.1082425126.20120.python-list at python.org: 

>         if ( not os.path.exists( dirname) ):
>             msg = 'The directory \'%s\' does not exist. Create
>             it [y/n] 
> ?' % dirname
>             c = raw_input( msg ).lower
>             if ( c == 'y' or c == 'yes' ):
>                 os.makedirs( dirname)
>             else:
>                 raise Exception( 'directory \'%s\' not created, 
> impossible to continue !' % dirname )
> 
> 

1. lower()(not lower) invokes the method
2. with that change, this code works as expected when I run it form a 
win2k command line, from an interactive session, or from Idle.

-- 
rzed



From val at vtek.com  Sun Apr 11 10:53:33 2004
From: val at vtek.com (val)
Date: Sun, 11 Apr 2004 10:53:33 -0400
Subject: Python is the best and most popular general purpose scripting
	language; the universal scripting language
References: <a5415304.0404101350.271088f2@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <c5bm8p$2qk2re$1@ID-62387.news.uni-berlin.de>


"Ron Stephens" <rstephens at vectron.com> wrote in message
news:a5415304.0404101350.271088f2 at posting.google.com...
> Python is the best and most popular general purpose scripting
> language. That is, Python is the best and most popular general
> purpose, dynamic, interpreted language. Sure, there are other
> scripting languages that are more popular for specific application
> domains, and there are big company backed systems languages that are
> far more popular; but in its niche, Python is tops.
> [...]
> Long live Python, the universal solvent!
>
> Ron Stephens
> www.awaretek.com/weblog/index.html

    An interesting discussion, and i'd like to ask experts
a general question.   Looking at a huge variety of programming
languages each with its specific design and application niche,
does it make a sense to design an *adaptive* language/interpreter?
'Adaptive' in terms of optimizing its structure/design and libraries
based on the specified criteria (performance, footprint, or whatever),
including even its run-time dynamics degree (compilation/interpretation
ratio).
    Such a beast would evaluate its input(code and data) making proper
generalizations and restructuring itself properly within available
hardware resources.  I don't think this is a great innovation.
JCL was probably a step in this direction.  Also, at that time
there were a few publications on "self-organizing compiler"
(by Friedberg from IBM, 1958?).  Then meta-programming and meta-classes,
though without specific focus on the interpreter/compiler
optimization.
    It may, though, confuse a user in terms of in what language to
write an application; well, that's where the classical Python would
probably be a great choice.
    Does it make any sense?

too-many-languages-too-short-life-ly y'rs,
val




From jcarlson at uci.edu  Mon Apr  5 19:33:37 2004
From: jcarlson at uci.edu (Josiah Carlson)
Date: Mon, 05 Apr 2004 16:33:37 -0700
Subject: recursive file editing
In-Reply-To: <pan.2004.04.05.16.40.22.824776@interfree.it>
References: <pan.2004.04.03.20.25.28.565809@interfree.it>
	<ccFbc.4784$zf6.64753@news4.e.nsc.no>
	<pan.2004.04.03.22.42.10.659781@interfree.it>
	<c4no62$6so$1@news.service.uci.edu>
	<pan.2004.04.05.16.40.22.824776@interfree.it>
Message-ID: <c4sqiq$ba4$3@news.service.uci.edu>

>>for thing in os.walk('mydir'):
>>     filehandle = file(thing, 'r+')
> 
> 
> I'm such a newbe I can't get it to work. Here is an example:

Nah, it's my fault.  I thought you were having issues with the file open 
mode needing to be a string.  I forgot the format of os.walk iteration.

Good to hear that you now have something that works the way you want it.

  - Josiah


From jack at performancedrivers.com  Thu Apr  8 15:26:24 2004
From: jack at performancedrivers.com (Jack Diederich)
Date: Thu, 8 Apr 2004 15:26:24 -0400
Subject: Special Method and Class
In-Reply-To: <20040408184749.GA5285@performancedrivers.com>
References: <c544a4$2gnk$1@biggoron.nerim.net>
	<20040408184749.GA5285@performancedrivers.com>
Message-ID: <20040408192624.GB5285@performancedrivers.com>

On Thu, Apr 08, 2004 at 02:47:49PM -0400, Jack Diederich wrote:
> On Thu, Apr 08, 2004 at 08:07:01PM +0200, Yermat wrote:
> > Hi all,
> > 
> > Why does special methods not work on class ? Or how to make them work ?
> > Here a simple example :
> > 
> > >>> class Test(object):
> > ...     def __repr__(cls):
> > ...         return "<special %s>" % cls.__name__
> > ...     __repr__ = classmethod(__repr__)
> > ...
> > >>> print repr(Test)
> > <class '__main__.Test'>
> This is your clue, this didn't print <special Test>
> for the same reason the __iter__ does work below.
> The special __method__'s only work for instances of
> the class and not for the class itself.
> 
> >>> print repr(Test)
> <class '__main__.Test'>
> >>> print repr(Test())
> <special Test>

This deserves a better explanation,
repr(some_instance) will call the __repr__ method of the thing that foo
is an instance of. 

You normally think of objects as instances of a class, but classes are 
also an instances of a type.  Now you're in metaclass territory which 
is overkill for what you want to do.

illustration:

class MetaFoo(type):
  """define our own type"""
  def __repr__(self):
    return 'this is an instance of MetaFoo'

class Foo(object):
  """define a class which is an instance of our own type"""
  __metaclass__ = MetaFoo
  def __repr__(self):
    return 'this is an instance of Foo'

>>> repr(Foo)
'this is an instance of MetaFoo'
>>> repr(Foo())
'this is an instance of Foo'

I can't think of a reason that classmethod() would be useful or legal
when applied to magic methods like __repr__.  Maybe it should throw
an exception instead.  It is possible to do things with a classmethod
__repr__ but it is a very obscure way to get the end effect.

def Foo(object):
  which = 'class'
  def __init__(self):
    self.which = 'instance'
  def __repr__(cls):
    return "Foo with which of " + cls.which
  __repr__ = classmethod(__repr__)

>>>repr(Foo())
'Foo with which of class'


-jackdied



From jcarlson at uci.edu  Wed Apr 21 03:01:46 2004
From: jcarlson at uci.edu (Josiah Carlson)
Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2004 00:01:46 -0700
Subject: No built-in swap function?
In-Reply-To: <c656c7$7nq$1@news.service.uci.edu>
References: <mailman.822.1082526479.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<c656c7$7nq$1@news.service.uci.edu>
Message-ID: <c656fi$7nq$2@news.service.uci.edu>

> Having 100 times as many loops for the Psyco run (xrange(10000000))...
> 1 million tuple swaps in 0.125 seconds.
> 1 million temp swaps in 0.125 seconds.
> 1 million xor swaps in 1.04699993134 seconds.

That should be 100 million swaps.  My bad.

One thing...with psyco, tuple swaps are replaced by temp swaps, that's 
why they are equally as fast in the psyco test.

  - Josiah


From heiko at hhenkelmann.de  Tue Apr 27 14:38:30 2004
From: heiko at hhenkelmann.de (Heiko Henkelmann)
Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2004 20:38:30 +0200
Subject: How to access outer class attribute from nested class
Message-ID: <c6m9dg$die$1@online.de>

Please see the following example. Is there any other way to access 
SomeAttribute from the nested class, without having to use the actual 
name of the outer class?


class SomeClass:
     SomeAttribute = 1

     class SomeNestedClass:
         SomeOtherAttribute = 2

         def SomeNestedClassMethod(cls):
             print "%s%s" % (
                 SomeClass.SomeAttribute
                 cls.SomeOtherAttribute,
                 )
         SomeNestedClassMethod = classmethod(SomeNestedClassMethod)

Thanx


From rastm2 at aol.com  Tue Apr 13 10:54:27 2004
From: rastm2 at aol.com (RASTM2)
Date: 13 Apr 2004 14:54:27 GMT
Subject: Newbie Question about Python win 32 -200
References: <20040413092916.10047.00000337@mb-m17.aol.com>
Message-ID: <20040413105427.17431.00000355@mb-m16.aol.com>

>and when pywin ide loads it hangs with this traceback
>
>"""Python Traceback when executing Initinstance handler"""
>  File "C:\PYTHON23\Lib\site-packages\Pythonwin\pywin\framework\intpyapp.py",
>line 163, in InitInstance
>    import interact
>  File "C:\PYTHON23\Lib\site-packages\Pythonwin\pywin\framework\interact.py",
>line 26, in ?
>    import winout
>  File "C:\PYTHON23\Lib\site-packages\Pythonwin\pywin\framework\winout.py",
>line 26, in ?
>    from pywintypes import UnicodeType
>  File "C:\PYTHON23\Lib\site-packages\win32\lib\pywintypes.py", line 55, in ?
>    __import_pywin32_system_module__("pywintypes", globals())
>  File "C:\PYTHON23\Lib\site-packages\win32\lib\pywintypes.py", line 48, in
>__import_pywin32_system_module__
>    raise ImportError, "Can not locate " + filename
>exceptions.ImportError: Can not locate pywintypes23.dll 

pywintypes23.dll was not located because I did not have "c:\windows\system" on
the os path.

Problem solved by the language you can read yourself.

Thanks loads,
Ray St. Marie
Rastm2 at aol.com

(YGLALTLYUTH)
You Gotta Love A Language That Lets You Under The Hood.




From mark at prothon.org  Wed Apr 28 04:00:13 2004
From: mark at prothon.org (Mark Hahn)
Date: Wed, 28 Apr 2004 01:00:13 -0700
Subject: Why we will use obj$func() often
References: <d2Uhc.22272$dZ1.1600@fed1read04> <84Uhc.22278$dZ1.5087@fed1read04>
	<mailman.927.1082665370.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<8AWhc.23114$dZ1.11070@fed1read04> <40883BFE.B381518A@alcyone.com>
	<27_hc.23801$dZ1.2716@fed1read04> <40887145.789A2FE8@alcyone.com>
	<7cki80hj976bia36lhf9er97v073o1pqvm@4ax.com>
	<w8dic.28710$dZ1.11206@fed1read04> <ulXiAls/KH1K089yn@the-wire.com>
	<lkfic.29767$dZ1.17301@fed1read04>
	<donn-66132E.15345723042004@nntp3.u.washington.edu>
	<PLhic.30493$dZ1.22063@fed1read04>
	<c6huj3$c3s3f$1@ID-169208.news.uni-berlin.de>
	<u8zjc.7394$Qy.127@fed1read04>
	<c6ni3j$e0vbb$1@ID-169208.news.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <5vJjc.13116$Qy.1954@fed1read04>

Greg Ewing wrote:

>   outer x = y + outer z

It's not that I don't like the looks, it's just that I've never seen a
keyword used that way before in Python, have you?  I think that would be a
big change for such a small usage case.

My symbol usage is a big change also, but consistent across the board.  If
we made that change, one could argue we'd need to do the same replacement
for all my symbols.  So we'd be looking at things like this?

outer x = y + global Cmp(global MAX_HGT, h) + self x
move(self ofsx, self ofsy)
if global Cmp(a,b) < 0:
        self z = global Z_MIN + outer firstZAttr

I think this would make the language very unwieldy.  This is kind of like
Cobol,. the opposite of Perl.  Don't you agree?

I guess the whole problem is my insistence on simple scope indentification
by looking at the variable.  It causes the var to need to be tagged.

I feel strongly that the Python mixture of declaration (global), default
(where assigned) and broken (closures) is broken overall and has to be fixed
in Prothon.  I take this as a given.  So I see these possible solutions:

1) My Ruby-like symbols, which I think are readable and fast-compilable.

2) Word-like symbols, which are large, less readable (too me) and
cluttering.

3) Declarations, which cause the compiler and user to look around and are
not Pythonic.

Am I missing any other solutions?




From mwh at python.net  Thu Apr 22 06:18:16 2004
From: mwh at python.net (Michael Hudson)
Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2004 10:18:16 GMT
Subject: __metaclass__ = type (was: Re: if (__name__ == '__main__'):
 main(sys.argv[1:]))
References: <01c601c4271b$7f7300a0$b401010a@sparta>
	<4085A445.1050303@heneryd.com>
	<mailman.833.1082551131.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<11Bhc.2149$hM2.1561@news02.roc.ny>
Message-ID: <m3d660pb87.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk>

Lee Harr <missive at frontiernet.net> writes:

> On 2004-04-21, Fran?ois Pinard <pinard at iro.umontreal.ca> wrote:
> >
> > __metaclass__ = type
> >
> > class Main:
> >     def __init__(self):
> >         pass
> >
> 
> > A word about the `__metaclass__' line.  My intent is to forget all about
> > classic classes and go with the new type system as quickly as possible.
> > I do not want to derive each and every of my classes from `object',
> > and later edit all those `(object)' out when the classic classes will
> > effectively get deprecated.  Much easier and cleaner to remove that
> > `__metaclass__' line then.  Moreover, by using this `__metaclass__' line
> > in all my things, I do not risk obscure bugs because I forgot one of
> > these `object' derivation while I used more recent Python features.
> >
> 
> 
> Very interesting.
> 
> Is there any reason to stick with old-style classes? Or would we all
> be well-advised to use something like this?

I'd say, just inherit from object all the time.

> I mostly just create classes the old way and never even think about
> subclassing object.

Tsk!

BTW, my slides from PythonUK on this kind of thing are online at

    http://starship.python.net/crew/mwh/hacks/

Cheers,
mwh

-- 
  Indeed, when I design my killer language, the identifiers "foo" and
  "bar" will be reserved words, never used, and not even mentioned in
  the reference manual. Any program using one will simply dump core
  without comment. Multitudes will rejoice. -- Tim Peters, 29 Apr 1998


From danb_83 at yahoo.com  Sat Apr 24 03:51:35 2004
From: danb_83 at yahoo.com (Dan Bishop)
Date: 24 Apr 2004 00:51:35 -0700
Subject: deleting items within a for loop - mutable indices
References: <4089cb21$1_2@mk-nntp-2.news.uk.tiscali.com>
Message-ID: <ad052e5c.0404232351.5425c136@posting.google.com>

SnuSnu <snusnu at tiscali.co.uk> wrote in message news:<4089cb21$1_2 at mk-nntp-2.news.uk.tiscali.com>...
> Okay - here's a (probably) really easy question:
> 
> I can't do the following, so what's the best way to handle this
> case of wanting to delete within a loop?
> 
> x = [0,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8]
> deletion_list = [2,7,8]
> 
> for i in deletion_list:
>   del x[i]
> 
> This obviously doesn't work because the list keeps changing
> each time I delete something, so the indices are no longer valid
> after the first delete (so I get an IndexError on teh last delete).

for i in deletion_list:
   x[i] = None
x = [num for num in x if num is not None]


From cybermanxu at hotmail.com  Thu Apr 29 22:21:41 2004
From: cybermanxu at hotmail.com (Jinming Xu)
Date: Thu, 29 Apr 2004 21:21:41 -0500
Subject: Why cannot jump out the loop?
Message-ID: <BAY9-F307gJrKLYALw800045e2b@hotmail.com>

Hi Everyone,

I have a very simple python program, which includes a while loop. But to my 
surprise,  it cannot jump out the while loop. Does anyone know why?

Here is the program:
___________________________
#!/usr/bin/env python
import sys
n=sys.argv[1]
i=0
while i<n:
  print "i=",i," n=",n
  i+=1
-----------------------------------------------------

Thanks in advance!

Jinming

_________________________________________________________________
>From must-see cities to the best beaches, plan a getaway with the Spring 
Travel Guide! http://special.msn.com/local/springtravel.armx




From newsgroups at jhrothjr.com  Mon Apr 26 08:21:41 2004
From: newsgroups at jhrothjr.com (John Roth)
Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2004 08:21:41 -0400
Subject: How's ruby compare to it older brother python
References: <c6ich0$c5mee$1@ID-205437.news.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <108pvmgl0h7m3ea@news.supernews.com>


"Hunn E. Balsiche" <hunnebal at yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:c6ich0$c5mee$1 at ID-205437.news.uni-berlin.de...
> in term of its OO features, syntax consistencies, ease of use, and their
> development progress. I have not use python but heard about it quite
often;
> and ruby, is it mature enough to be use for developing serious
application,
> e.g web application as it has not many features in it yet.

As another poster has mentioned, Ruby is more closely related
to Perl than to Python. While I don't use it, people I respect who
have moved to Ruby say it has a couple of real killer features;
in particular the way blocks and the pervasive use of the visitor
pattern come together change the way one writes programs for
the better.

As far as syntax is concerned, there doesn't seem to be a
huge amount of difference. Syntax is syntax, and every language
has it's little pecularities.

I haven't seen enough of it to make me want to learn it, but it's
on my list of languages to play with sometime.

John Roth

> Thanks
>
>




From mhuening at zedat.fu-berlin.de  Thu Apr 29 05:03:03 2004
From: mhuening at zedat.fu-berlin.de (Matthias Huening)
Date: 29 Apr 2004 09:03:03 GMT
Subject: sorting a list
References: <f046efac.0403091513.3b392074@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <Xns94DA7086C66A8mhueningzedatfuberli@130.133.1.4>

ketulp_baroda at yahoo.com wrote in news:f046efac.0403091513.3b392074
@posting.google.com:

> But I am actually looking for an output:
> ['A','a','D','F','f']
> 
> Is there any module to sort a list this way?

You could use the locale module to sort according to locale 
conventions:

>>> import locale
>>> locale.setlocale(locale.LC_ALL,"")
'German_Germany.1252'
>>> a = ['A', 'D', 'F', 'a', 'f', '?']
>>> def sortDeutsch(a,b):
        return locale.strcoll(a[0], b[0])
>>> a.sort(sortDeutsch)
>>> a
['a', 'A', '\xe4', 'D', 'f', 'F']
>>>  


Matthias


From fumanchu at amor.org  Tue Apr  6 14:04:21 2004
From: fumanchu at amor.org (Robert Brewer)
Date: Tue, 6 Apr 2004 11:04:21 -0700
Subject: unpack tuple of wrong size
Message-ID: <DE1CF2B4FEC4A342BF62B6B2B334601E561FBB@opus.amorhq.net>

Tung Wai Yip wrote:
> t = (1,)
> a,b=t
> 
> I got a "ValueError: unpack tuple of wrong size"
> 
> What I want is for a=1 and b=None. Is there a good way to do this?

The best way is:

t = (1, None)
a, b = t

...but if you *really, really* want implicit instead of explicit:

t = (1, )
try:
    a = t[0]
except ValueError:
    a, b = None, None
else:
    try:
        b = t[1]
    except ValueError:
        b = None

...I tend to prefer the former. ;)

You could also do "the same thing" without the try: blocks:

if t:
    a = t[0]
    if len(t) > 1:
        b = t[1]
    else:
        b = None
else:
    a, b = None, None

...or convert the tuple to a dict and use "get", which defaults to
returning None:

newt = dict(enumerate(t))
a = t.get(0)
b = t.get(1)

...or write a custom subclass of tuple. The options are numerous.


FuManChu



From peter at engcorp.com  Thu Apr 29 09:02:31 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Thu, 29 Apr 2004 09:02:31 -0400
Subject: String formatting (%)
In-Reply-To: <0fc7c423f6c71f60bc863e72b0765f6c@news.teranews.com>
References: <e567c03a.0404280035.79d0d973@posting.google.com>
	<gcGdnd7hn7_LMxLd4p2dnA@powergate.ca>
	<0fc7c423f6c71f60bc863e72b0765f6c@news.teranews.com>
Message-ID: <NNGdnfrYFPd1YQ3dRVn-jA@powergate.ca>

Daniel 'Dang' Griffith wrote:

> On Wed, 28 Apr 2004 09:15:02 -0400, Peter Hansen <peter at engcorp.com>
> wrote:
>>I suspect there's also a regular expression that could deal with
>>that, but I don't want to know what it is. ;-)
> 
>     Since you don't want to know what it is, I'll at least tell you
> where it is: In Mastering Regular Expressions by Jeffrey E. F. Friedl.
> I don't have it front of me, but it's the "commafying" example.  A
> quick search of the author's site looks like it's on pgs 64-65.  

Thank you.  You can even get the code listings online, which is
very nice since my copy has migrated into a closet during a recent
move.

 >>> import re
 >>> s = '21421906.12'
 >>>
 >>> re.sub(r'(?<=\d)(?=(\d\d\d)+\.)', ',', s)
'21,421,906.12'

>     Of course, the OP would substitute spaces for the commas.

 >>> _.replace(',', ' ')
'21 421 906.12'

Very nice... quite elegant, I suppose.  I struggled with it a
bit myself yesterday but I'm no RE expert. :-(

-Peter


From Mike at DeleteThis.Geary.com  Sat Apr 10 12:29:29 2004
From: Mike at DeleteThis.Geary.com (Michael Geary)
Date: Sat, 10 Apr 2004 09:29:29 -0700
Subject: Wrapper round x86 Assembler
References: <8089854e.0404082353.7bf163a2@posting.google.com>
	<4dKdnQlIXMIXIevdRVn-gg@powergate.ca>
	<8089854e.0404100204.504186a0@posting.google.com>
	<kcWdnaFpw_PvdurdRVn-sA@powergate.ca>
Message-ID: <107g87b2k9cuoa7@corp.supernews.com>

Peter Hansen wrote:
> My main reason for pushing Pyrex as opposed to
> discussing options for assembly programming is that
> there's very little reason for people to be doing
> assembly in the world these days. C is higher level yet
> with an optimizing compiler allows better
> performance in all but a few rare cases (meaning a
> few rare problem domains and a few rare individuals).

On modern CPUs, unless you really know what you're doing, hand-written
assembly code is likely to be slower than code generated by a good
optimizing C/C++ compiler. If your assembly code is at all straightforward,
it will definitely be slower than compiled code, because you'll be stalling
the CPU all over the place when one instruction waits for the results of a
previous one.

-Mike




From me at privacy.net  Thu Apr 15 21:51:31 2004
From: me at privacy.net (Heather Coppersmith)
Date: 15 Apr 2004 21:51:31 -0400
Subject: CamelCase versus wide_names (Prothon)
References: <UHxfc.9323$dZ1.3740@fed1read04>
	<mailman.666.1082064823.20120.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <m2fzb4adwc.fsf@unique.phony.fqdn>

On Thu, 15 Apr 2004 17:32:30 -0400,
Fran?ois Pinard <pinard at iro.umontreal.ca> wrote:

> Given full power and choice, what I would prefer is that
> identifiers be allowed to contain spaces -- would they have to
> be unbreakable spaces ...

Underscores are the next best thing, depending on your font.  I
remember the Good Old Days of ASCII terminals, when underscores
were *below* the baseline and not on it (especially effective on
those old upper-case-only ADM 3's...).

I also like Lisp's (mostly) whitespace delimited identifiers, not
so much for char< and remove-extra-['s, but for big-enough-p and
parse-integer, not to mention *global-variable* and :keyword.

Back on topic:  I find mixedCase and CamelCase tolerable for short
identifiers (e.g., biggestInt and LoggingMixin), but intolerable
for longer identifiers (e.g., mostRecentMonthWithActivity).

Regards,
Heather

-- 
Heather Coppersmith
That's not right; that's not even wrong. -- Wolfgang Pauli


From rogerb at rogerbinns.com  Tue Apr 20 16:21:41 2004
From: rogerb at rogerbinns.com (Roger Binns)
Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 13:21:41 -0700
Subject: Difficulty Finding Python Developers (me too!)
References: <65cbc3dd.0404140641.3501fde8@posting.google.com>
	<4084AB85.15E9BAE2@shaw.ca>
Message-ID: <dbdgl1-1de.ln1@home.rogerbinns.com>

SeeBelow at SeeBelow.Nut wrote:
> We need someone to add graphics & GUI to an existing C program. The main
> program, graphics & GUI would be python/tKinter.

In that case, not only are you looking for a Python programmer,
but also one that does tkInter (which is an even smaller subset).
I would recommend not picking a GUI toolkit but instead letting
the Python programmer do it.  That way you may end up with a
Qt, GTK, wxPython or tkInter user interface, but it would be
better than having nothing.  You may also be able to split
your program in two and have a backend doing the all calculations
etc, and a front end that runs in a web browser, or uses XML-RPC
or something to show what is going on.

BTW I gave up on tkInter a few years ago because of its lack of
support for printing.  I now happily do everything in wxPython
and find it the best solution *for me* for doing apps that run
equally well on Windows, Linux and Mac.

Roger




From herrn at gmx.net  Mon Apr  5 08:38:50 2004
From: herrn at gmx.net (Marco Herrn)
Date: 5 Apr 2004 12:38:50 GMT
Subject: user authentication via /etc/passwd|/etc/shadow
References: <c4ork9$2kssti$1@ID-165840.news.uni-berlin.de>
	<c4phmr$k6i$04$1@news.t-online.com>
	<pdx7jwvzajx.fsf@kappa.ac93.org>
Message-ID: <c4rk0q$2kr4f5$1@ID-165840.news.uni-berlin.de>

On 2004-04-04, Dima Barsky <dima at debian.org> wrote:
> Marco Herrn wrote:
>
>> I want to write a program where I authenticate users via the standard
>> unix system accounts. I didn't find a module providing this
>> functionality. Is there such a module available? If not, how can I
>> achieve this?
>
> You can try the python-pam module:
>
> http://ftp.debian.org/debian/pool/main/p/python-pam/python-pam_0.4.2-10.1.tar.gz

Thanks, I will try it.


-- 
Marco Herrn             herrn at gmx.net
(GnuPG/PGP-signed and crypted mail preferred)
Key ID: 0x94620736



From a at a.invalid  Mon Apr 26 13:38:10 2004
From: a at a.invalid (Timo Virkkala)
Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2004 17:38:10 GMT
Subject: Python-list, Exotic sex is urgently necessary for you!
In-Reply-To: <e9570f37.0404251917.3923aa1e@posting.google.com>
References: <E5E3A37F16I0JC42@python.org>
	<mailman.935.1082683672.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<EY1ic.31$Ah4.7@read3.inet.fi>
	<e9570f37.0404230655.15907007@posting.google.com>
	<sXTic.619$jM6.444@read3.inet.fi>
	<e9570f37.0404251917.3923aa1e@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <6Objc.651$T46.23@read3.inet.fi>

Graham Fawcett wrote:
> According to Jeff Ayers, Linus Torvalds had a "fixation for
> flightless, fat waterfowl" and Torvalds claims to have contracted
> "penguinitis" after being gently nibbled by a penguin: "Penguinitis
> makes you stay awake at nights just thinking about penguins and
> feeling great love towards them."
> 
> I hope this condition doesn't sound *too* familiar, Timo!  ;-)

No, I'm more of a dog person...

*ahem*

*fidgeting* Why don't we get back to programming...

*runs and hides*

--
WT


From michal at genesilico.pl  Sat Apr  3 12:34:44 2004
From: michal at genesilico.pl (Michal Kurowski)
Date: Sat, 3 Apr 2004 19:34:44 +0200
Subject: ZMySQLDA/MySQLdb: DON'T fix like this for Zope 2.7.0!
In-Reply-To: <406EF43D.5040309@simplistix.co.uk>
References: <406E9DE4.2000604@simplistix.co.uk>
	<406EDE94.9000701@simplistix.co.uk>
	<406EEE33.9050901@simplistix.co.uk>
	<20040403171804.GA32655@calvados>
	<406EF43D.5040309@simplistix.co.uk>
Message-ID: <20040403173444.GC32655@calvados>

Chris Withers [lists at simplistix.co.uk] wrote:
> 
> This is NOT a good fix. All you're doing is ignoring the server's 
> capabilities, so if the server supports transactions and the client 
> doesn't, or vice versa, you end up in a mess.

You're right but I think it is not that severe.
Generally you use MyIsam tables and if you choose InnoDB you know your
own reasons for it.

> I think the idea is that you're supposed to use mysql-python 0.9.3b2 with 
> Python 2.3, but there's no Windows binary for that.
> Well, ZMySQLDA is Andy's code, so perhaps he could comment? ;-)

Well, I'd be curious to hear Andy Dustman in here too ;-)))


-- 
Michal Kurowski
perl -e '$_=q#: 13_2: 12/o{>: 8_4) (_4: 6/2^-2; 3;-2^\2: 5/7\_/\7: 12m m::#;
y#:#\n#;s#(\D)(\d+)#$1x$2#ge;print'




From donn at u.washington.edu  Thu Apr 15 15:59:23 2004
From: donn at u.washington.edu (Donn Cave)
Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2004 12:59:23 -0700
Subject: Difficulty Finding Python Developers
References: <65cbc3dd.0404140641.3501fde8@posting.google.com>
	<5d83790c.0404150701.605782a7@posting.google.com>
	<roy-A17A1C.12565615042004@reader2.panix.com>
Message-ID: <donn-0FA6AE.12592315042004@nntp3.u.washington.edu>

In article <roy-A17A1C.12565615042004 at reader2.panix.com>,
 Roy Smith <roy at panix.com> wrote:

> python at rcn.com (Raymond Hettinger) wrote:
> > With a C++ code, it is critical for your programmers to have years of
> > C++ experience.  However, with Python, experienced programmers can get
> > up to speed over a weekend.
> 
> I would put it slightly differently.
> 
> With Python, you can learn a useful subset of the language in a weekend.  
> Control flow, statement syntax, and how to define and use functions.  
> Assuming you're already familiar with the concepts of classes and 
> exceptions (and just need to learn how python implements them), those 
> are probably another weekend.
> 
> What's really cool is that once you've learned some basic subset of the 
> language, it's easy to start using that subset to write useful and 
> correct programs.  They may not be as efficient or sophisticated as they 
> might be if you understood some more advanced topic, but they'll work.
> 
> I think that's one of the things that sets Python apart from C++.  It's 
> difficult to know a subset of C++ and do anything useful (unless you 
> consider C to be a subset of C++).  Memory management is pervasive.  
> Inheritence rules are in your face all the time.  If you declare a 
> constructor incorrectly, even if you only have a single constructor, 
> you'll never be able to make sense of the compiler errors unless you 
> understand polymorphism.  And so on.
> 
> A novice Python programmer may be limited in the things they can do, but 
> what they can do, they can do well.  A novice C++ programmer is 
> dangerous.

I will buy that.  By interesting coincidence, I just heard
this an hour ago from a colleague who recently started on a
new project and had at some early stage given C++ a try.
Luckily he recognized that he was in over his head, and
gave that up.

The other language wasn't Python, though, it was C#.  He was
only interested in C++ for legacy support.

   Donn Cave, donn at u.washington.edu


From max at alcyone.com  Fri Apr  2 03:43:19 2004
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Fri, 02 Apr 2004 00:43:19 -0800
Subject: String concatenation
References: <wS8bc.4382$px6.64058@news2.e.nsc.no>
	<7xisgi24fm.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<Rz9bc.4514$zf6.60676@news4.e.nsc.no>
Message-ID: <406D27A7.6550A00B@alcyone.com>

"Leif B. Kristensen" wrote:

> that looks a lot more like the examples in "Dive Into Python" which
> I'm
> reading at the moment. But the snake won't swallow:
> 
>     tmp = [x for x in res if x and x[0] != '-']
>     ^
> SyntaxError: invalid syntax
> 
> I wonder what it's really trying to tell me?

Probably you included the initial spaces, which is a no-no:

>>> a = 1
>>>    b = 2
  File "<stdin>", line 1
    b = 2
    ^
SyntaxError: invalid syntax

-- 
 __ Erik Max Francis && max at alcyone.com && http://www.alcyone.com/max/
/  \ San Jose, CA, USA && 37 20 N 121 53 W && AIM erikmaxfrancis
\__/ They love too much that die for love.
    -- (an English proverb)


From mwh at python.net  Thu Apr  1 06:03:20 2004
From: mwh at python.net (Michael Hudson)
Date: Thu, 1 Apr 2004 11:03:20 GMT
Subject: test for nan
References: <mailman.138.1080679635.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<c4gjfj$gt4$1@swifty.westend.com>
Message-ID: <m3fzbovu2v.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk>

Peter Maas <fpetermaas at netscape.net> writes:

> John Hunter wrote:
> > I have a C extension module that is returning some doubles.  When the
> > doubles get out of range, the numbers print as 'nan'.
> > Is there a better way to test for NaN than
> >    str(p1)=='nan'
> > where p1 is a float?
> > python2.3
> > Thanks,
> > John Hunter
> > 
> 
> As far as I know NaN is th only value that yields false when
> compared to itself. 

There can be more than one NaN, by the way.

> This leads to
> 
> def isNaN(x):
>      return (x == x) == False

This will work with 2.3 on Windows (I believe), current CVS on Windows
(if compiled with VC7.1), current CVS on Linux (assuming an even
vaguely recent gcc), but not current CVS on Windows compiled with VC6,
nor Python 2.3 on Linux/gcc.  Confused yet?

Other platforms I haven't the faintest idea about.

Cheers,
mwh

-- 
41. Some programming languages manage to absorb change, but
    withstand progress.
  -- Alan Perlis, http://www.cs.yale.edu/homes/perlis-alan/quotes.html


From fumanchu at amor.org  Thu Apr 22 17:17:00 2004
From: fumanchu at amor.org (Robert Brewer)
Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2004 14:17:00 -0700
Subject: bytecode JUMP_IF_* always followed by POP_TOP?
Message-ID: <DE1CF2B4FEC4A342BF62B6B2B334601E56204A@opus.amorhq.net>

Tim Peters wrote:
> [Robert Brewer]
> > Playing around with bytecodes some more:
> > ...
> > I notice that, whether JUMP_IF_FALSE jumps or not, the next
> > instruction it executes is POP_TOP
> > ...
> > Are there any constructions whereby this does not happen for
> > JUMP_IF_FALSE and JUMP_IF_TRUE?
> 
> Try
> 
>     x and y
> 
> and
> 
>     x or y
> 
> When those jump, they want to retain the tested value, so 
> there's no POP_TOP
> at the branch target then.

Ah. They only POP_TOP if they *don't* jump. Got it. Thanks!


Der Fu Man



From martin at v.loewis.de  Thu Apr 22 16:51:51 2004
From: martin at v.loewis.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?=22Martin_v=2E_L=F6wis=22?=)
Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2004 22:51:51 +0200
Subject: Deleting objects - my earler post got garbled
In-Reply-To: <b4a8ffb6.0404221209.d612c6@posting.google.com>
References: <b4a8ffb6.0404221209.d612c6@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <40883067.4000702@v.loewis.de>

Thomas Philips wrote:
> I have a question about deleting objects. My game has two classes,
> Player and Alien, essentially identical, instances of which can shoot
> at each other. Player is described below

There are a few problems with your posting. First of all, you don't
show the code of Alien.

>     def hit(self,energy):
>         self.strength -= energy
>         if(self.strength <= 50):
>             self.__del__()

Then, you are invoking __del__ explicitly. This is probably not
what you want to do. Invoking __del__ does *not* cause the object
to be deleted.

I repeat. Invoking __del__ does *not* cause the object to be
deleted.

Instead, it is vice versa: Deleting the object causes __del__
to be invoked. The object is deleted when the last reference
to the object goes away, *not* when __del__ is invoked.

So in your example, you cause multiple calls to __del__.
This is probably not what you want to do.

There is no way to explicitly delete an object in Python.

> 1. When I execute the program in IDLE, IT FINISHES BY EXECUTING THE
> DESTRUCTOR FOR BOTH HERO AND VILLAIN. How can this be? As one of the
> two objects was destroyed prior to the end of the game, how can it be
> re-destroyed when the program ends?

This is hard to tell, because you don't show the code of Alien.

> 2. After Hero hits Villain with an energy of 100, Villain executes its
> destructor, but I find I can then type
> Villain.blast(Hero,100)
> and have the alien (whose demise had me gloating) blast me right back!
> Why is it that the blast() method works for an object whose destructor
> has been executed?

Because invoking __del__ does not cause the object to go away. There
is no way to explicitly delete an object in Python.

Regards,
Martin



From irmen at -nospam-remove-this-xs4all.nl  Wed Apr 28 13:57:50 2004
From: irmen at -nospam-remove-this-xs4all.nl (Irmen de Jong)
Date: Wed, 28 Apr 2004 19:57:50 +0200
Subject: sending an object - twisted or what?
In-Reply-To: <c6nr5s$na$1@hercules.btinternet.com>
References: <c6llh1$1k8$1@sparta.btinternet.com>
	<mailman.45.1083079451.25742.python-list@python.org>
	<c6nr5s$na$1@hercules.btinternet.com>
Message-ID: <408ff09e$0$574$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>

Paul Sweeney wrote:

>>I don't know if it's simpler, but there's PyRO:
>>http://pyro.sourceforge.net/
>>
> 
> I meant to say I had looked at that too, but I just want to operate a queue
> of objects sent between systems, so the whole name server/URI approach is
> quite a lot of unnecessary overhead.  Thanks for the post though. :-)

Are you aware that it's not necessary to use a name server/URIs?
Pyro can also work without it. See the example at the top of this
page of the manual: http://pyro.sourceforge.net/pyro-manual/8-example.html
Well, you still have to point your client to the location of the
other computer, so that's where the PYROLOC URI comes in, but
this example works without starting a Name server etc.

Regards

Irmen de Jong.



From jcarlson at uci.edu  Sun Apr  4 14:28:38 2004
From: jcarlson at uci.edu (Josiah Carlson)
Date: Sun, 04 Apr 2004 11:28:38 -0700
Subject: Working with a list in a more =?utf-8?b?4oCecHl0aG9uaWPigJwg?=
 =?utf-8?q?way?=
In-Reply-To: <20040404164229129+0200@news.rhrz.uni-bonn.de>
References: <20040404124833458+0200@news.rhrz.uni-bonn.de>
	<40700e82$1@nntp0.pdx.net>
	<20040404164229129+0200@news.rhrz.uni-bonn.de>
Message-ID: <c4pkat$3rp$1@news.service.uci.edu>

>>     # Setup: transitionScore['AF'] = soundScoreMatrix[0][5].
>>     transitionScore = {}
>>     for i in range(26):
>>         first = chr(65+i)
>>         row = soundScoreMatrix[i]
>>         for j in range(26):
>>             transitionScore[first + chr(65+j)] = row[j]
> 
> 
> That would create another list containing all possible transitions, 
> right? Are you doing this just to avoid indexing the matrix later when 
> going over the phrase letter by letter?

He's creating a dictionary.  And yes, he's using it to avoid indexing 
into the matrix.  When you are dealing with some sort of object that is 
indexed by pairs (or triples or quads) of objects, it is quite Pythonic 
to index that object by those same blocks.

 >>> import this
The Zen of Python, by Tim Peters
             .
             .
             .
Flat is better than nested.
             .
             .
             .
 >>>


  - Josiah


From hyperbob at walla.com  Tue Apr 20 09:48:16 2004
From: hyperbob at walla.com (hyperbob at walla.com)
Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 16:48:16 +0300
Subject: Networking!
Message-ID: <200404201348.i3KDmGh22007@omail4.walla.co.il>

Hello,

I'm in the design stage of an application that will consist of two or more processes that will be either on different computers in a network or on the same computer and will have to communicate with each other. I don't have much experience with networking, inter-process communication or client-server architectures, and I'm wondering what is the best way to do it.

These are the basic functions that need to be:
1. Some processes will wait for requests and then do some computation and return a value to the requester.
2. When making a request, sometimes processes will want a response immediately.
3. Other times, processes will want to make a request that requires some time to complete, continue with their business, and be informed when the task is finished (or, for example, request to be notified when a certain event occurs).

How should this be done?

What I thought was, that every process that needs to receive requests should have a main loop that will check for them (how I don't know), and when a request is intercepted, it will run the function associated with it. In case 3 described above, I thought that maybe when the request is made, a new thread with an event loop is automatically created to wait for the response. Is this a good way to go about it? What are the alternatives?

I thought of using Twisted for the networking. Are there any other good options?
When all of the processes run on the same computer, will it be too cumbersome to use Twisted or networking in general?

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Walla! Mail, Get Your Private, Free E-mail from Walla! at:
http://mail.walla.co.il

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From danielcloutier at yahoo.com  Wed Apr 21 07:54:15 2004
From: danielcloutier at yahoo.com (Daniel Cloutier)
Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2004 13:54:15 +0200
Subject: Editing/Writing Word-Files from Python
In-Reply-To: <8ef9bea6.0404201341.405beb5@posting.google.com>
References: <c63fgi$7esh7$1@ID-47444.news.uni-berlin.de>
	<8ef9bea6.0404201341.405beb5@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <c65nah$8cv4s$1@ID-47444.news.uni-berlin.de>

Hung Jung Lu wrote:
> Daniel Cloutier <danielcloutier at yahoo.com> wrote in message news:<c63fgi$7esh7$1 at ID-47444.news.uni-berlin.de>...
> 
>>is it possible to edit or write Word-files out of a Python-Program?
> 
> 
> Yes. 
> 
> (a) You need the win32all modules from Mark Hammond.
> 
> (b) To try out the object model of MS Word, press ALT+F11 to bring up
> the VBA environment, then F2 to view the object browser. It's a
> complicated subject.
> 
> -------------------------------------------
> import pythoncom
> from win32com.client import Dispatch
> 
> app = Dispatch('Word.Application')
> app.Visible = 1
> doc = app.Documents.Add()
> s = doc.Sentences(1)
> s.Text = 'This is a test.'
> doc.SaveAs('C:\\mydoc2.doc')
> app.Quit()
> 
> app = None
> pythoncom.CoUninitialize()
> --------------------------------------------
> 
> You may want to add better exception handling, otherwise, you may
> often have danggling processes when exceptions happen. (You'll then
> have to manually kill them from the task manager.)
> 
> regards,
> 
> Hung Jung

thanks a lot, yesterday i found out myself that i have to use the 
win32com package, but i didn't know how to add some text

greetings
daniel


From harry.g.george at boeing.com  Fri Apr  2 11:50:18 2004
From: harry.g.george at boeing.com (Harry George)
Date: Fri, 2 Apr 2004 16:50:18 GMT
Subject: ftpmirror.py in reverse?
References: <xqxwu4zk599.fsf@cola2.ca.boeing.com>
	<mailman.251.1080858637.20120.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <xqx65ci8gtx.fsf@cola2.ca.boeing.com>

"Gianluca Trombetta" <gianluca.trombetta at tin.it> writes:

> i don't understand if u would use a python program...
> However rsync is very nice and useful for site-mirroring...
> 
> Hi
> 

I love rsync, but there is no rsync at the other end.   Just ftp.



> "Harry George" <harry.g.george at boeing.com> ha scritto nel messaggio
> news:xqxwu4zk599.fsf at cola2.ca.boeing.com...
> > I maintain a website on a local machine, and want to maintain a clone
> > of it on a www-visible remote machine via ftp.  I.e., local to remote.
> >
> > Going remote to local, ftpmirror.py would (I understand) do the job.
> >
> > Is there some tool available (or even a parameter for ftpmirror.py)
> > which can do local-->remote?
> >
> >
> >
> > -- 
> > harry.g.george at boeing.com
> > 6-6M21 BCA CompArch Design Engineering
> > Phone: (425) 342-0007
> > -- 
> > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
> >
> 
> 
> 
> 

-- 
harry.g.george at boeing.com
6-6M21 BCA CompArch Design Engineering
Phone: (425) 342-0007


From ZeNzero at invalidmail.ZeN  Sat Apr 24 09:44:15 2004
From: ZeNzero at invalidmail.ZeN (ZeN0)
Date: Sat, 24 Apr 2004 13:44:15 GMT
Subject: Stupid Regex Question
References: <mailman.844.1082565137.20120.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <pan.2004.04.24.13.44.01.962214@invalidmail.ZeN>

Jonas Galvez:

> str = "<tag>text<innertag>moretext</innertag></tag><tag>text</tag>"
> How can I get a list like ["text<innertag>moretext</innertag>", "text"]
> using regexes? I'm starting to believe it's not possible.

You can try with:

re.findall("<tag>(.*?)</tag>",str)

(if you don't have nested tag like in this case)
.*? means anychar (.) many times or never (*) but least as possible (?)

Greetings,
	Zenzero


From peter at engcorp.com  Wed Apr 28 10:06:17 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Wed, 28 Apr 2004 10:06:17 -0400
Subject: Path ... where is my application's home dir?
In-Reply-To: <mailman.78.1083160162.25742.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.78.1083160162.25742.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <z92dnVViraDEJxLdRVn-jA@powergate.ca>

Batista, Facundo wrote:

> [Marco Aschwanden]
> 
> #- I want to store a file in the application directory. What is
> #- the easiest
> #- way to figure out, where my application is situated?
> 
> You don't need that, just save it without a path and it'll fall in your 
> current directory.

But what if the current directory is not the same as "where my
application is situated"?

> But if you need it for something else:
> 
>  >>> import os.path
>  >>> os.path.curdir
> '.'
>  >>> os.path.abspath(os.path.curdir)
> 'C:\\temp'

That looks a lot like a complicated way to spell 'os.getcwd()'  :-)


From fuf at mageo.cz  Mon Apr 26 07:08:15 2004
From: fuf at mageo.cz (Michal Vitecek)
Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2004 13:08:15 +0200
Subject: Why we will use obj$func() often
In-Reply-To: <wQdic.28868$dZ1.3972@fed1read04>
References: <d2Uhc.22272$dZ1.1600@fed1read04>
	<mailman.973.1082745297.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<wQdic.28868$dZ1.3972@fed1read04>
Message-ID: <20040426110815.GC21008@foof.i3.cz>

Mark Hahn wrote:
>I just meant that people "pre-judge" Prothon based on it's looks.

 i wouldn't use a language whose "look" i don't like. i prefer my code
 to be well readable and maintable even after a longish time. many
 symbols ($,&,^, etc.) make it a big minus for me because i tend to
 forget their special meaning very soon. and looking up those characters
 all the time is no-go for me.

 so when i saw something like 'someObject$someMethod()' and plenty of
 '.a = .b + 1' it scared me right away  - simply just based on the
 "look" of the language.

-- 
		fuf		(fuf at mageo.cz)



From seberino at spawar.navy.mil  Tue Apr 20 12:03:19 2004
From: seberino at spawar.navy.mil (Christian Seberino)
Date: 20 Apr 2004 09:03:19 -0700
Subject: Easiest way to *add a column* to a 2d matrix/array in numarray???
Message-ID: <bf23f78f.0404200803.4b065887@posting.google.com>

How add a column to a 2d array/matrix in numarray???

The unelegant way I found was to:

1. Create a new array with an extra column (e.g. using 'zeros' function).
2. Copy original array into new array.
3. Copy new column into last column.

Is there a slicker way to do this?

Chris


From fpetermaas at netscape.net  Thu Apr  1 09:38:48 2004
From: fpetermaas at netscape.net (Peter Maas)
Date: Thu, 01 Apr 2004 16:38:48 +0200
Subject: test for nan
In-Reply-To: <m3fzbovu2v.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk>
References: <mailman.138.1080679635.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<c4gjfj$gt4$1@swifty.westend.com>
	<m3fzbovu2v.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <c4h9eu$94r$1@swifty.westend.com>

Michael Hudson wrote:
> There can be more than one NaN, by the way.

I know that but if all NaNs have the same distinct algorithmic behaviour
that's not a problem.

>>This leads to
>>
>>def isNaN(x):
>>     return (x == x) == False
> 
> 
> This will work with 2.3 on Windows (I believe), current CVS on Windows
> (if compiled with VC7.1), current CVS on Linux (assuming an even
> vaguely recent gcc), but not current CVS on Windows compiled with VC6,
> nor Python 2.3 on Linux/gcc.  Confused yet?

No:

def isNaN1(x):
     return x != x

def isNaN2(x):
     return (x == 0) and (x == 1)

if sys.platform == 'win32' and '2.3' in sys.version:
         isNaN = isNaN1
elif sys.platform == 'win32' and 'good_CVS_VC_stuff' in sys.version:
         isNaN = isNaN1
elif sys.platform == 'win32' and 'bad_CVS_VC_stuff' in sys.version:
         isNaN = isNaN2
elif sys.platform == 'linux2':
         isNaN = isNaN2
else:
     raise Exception, "Roll your own isNaN() for platform " \
         "%s and version %s\n" % (sys.platform, sys.version)

bad/good_CVS_VC_stuff has to be worked out, don't have the version strings
available.

Mit freundlichen Gruessen,

Peter Maas

-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Peter Maas, M+R Infosysteme, D-52070 Aachen, Hubert-Wienen-Str. 24
Tel +49-241-93878-0 Fax +49-241-93878-20 eMail peter.maas at mplusr.de
-------------------------------------------------------------------


From jcm at FreeBSD-uk.eu.org  Thu Apr 22 18:24:20 2004
From: jcm at FreeBSD-uk.eu.org (Jonathon McKitrick)
Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2004 23:24:20 +0100
Subject: ready to use python, need help with GUI decision
In-Reply-To: <4046D3E4.9040007@zoran.com>
References: <mailman.0.1078340778.736.python-list@python.org>
	<4046D3E4.9040007@zoran.com>
Message-ID: <20040422222420.GB90834@dogma.freebsd-uk.eu.org>

On Thu, Mar 04, 2004 at 08:59:48AM +0200, Miki Tebeka wrote:
: Hello Jonathon,
: 
: >Can anyone offer any advice?
: I use wxPython here at work and I'm very pleased with it. Native look 
: and feel, a lot of widgets ...
: There are some nice UI designers as well (Boa, wxGlade ...). The UI in 
: my projects is not that complicated to I write all the GUI in VIm, the 
: *Sizer are wonderful.

I started out with tk/Pwm for my first decent sized project, and I really
like it.  I also decided to take a look at wxPython, just for comparison.  I
like the richness, but on an older laptop, it seems to take much more CPU,
like Java.  Does anyone else find that to be the case?


jm
-- 
My other computer is your Windows box.



From lbates at swamisoft.com  Mon Apr 19 09:50:39 2004
From: lbates at swamisoft.com (Larry Bates)
Date: Mon, 19 Apr 2004 08:50:39 -0500
Subject: COM & Python
References: <mailman.752.1082375155.20120.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <l4CdnSThFfKwRB7dRVn-gw@comcast.com>

Get a copy of
Python Programming on Win32 By Mark Hammond, Andy Robinson

This is the best starting point for you.

Larry Bates
Syscon, Inc.

"Anand K Rayudu" <anand at easi.soft.net> wrote in message
news:mailman.752.1082375155.20120.python-list at python.org...
> Hi all,
>
> I want to use python with COM extension. I am successful using python as
> client.
> I could interact to my application through COM interfaces from python.
>
> I also want to use the win32ui layer, which wrapped all MFC user
> interface functionality.
> I am just wondering if some on can guide me with some documentation on
> using them.
> I want to know how the call backs are handled in particular.
> Any sample code will be a great start for me.
> If this is possible I can create any dialog boxes with any controls from
> python itself!! :-)
> And take advantage of MFC's View , scroll view and so on. Just exciting!!
>
> Thanks in advance,
> Anand
>
>
>
>




From jbperez808 at yahoo.com  Wed Apr  7 03:43:31 2004
From: jbperez808 at yahoo.com (Jon Perez)
Date: Wed, 07 Apr 2004 15:43:31 +0800
Subject: Idiom for error checking within a C extension
Message-ID: <c50b2c$2ifpgu$1@ID-180326.news.uni-berlin.de>

I want to retrieve a value from a tuple and convert it to a C
type.  Is the following idiom okay?

   if (!(
         ( tmp_pyobj=PyTuple_GetItem(tuple,1) ) &&
         ( c_int=PyInt_AsLong(tmp_pyobj) )
      ))
     {
       if (PyErr_ExceptionMatches(PyExc_TypeError))
         PyErr_SetString(PyExc_TypeError,"tuple's 1st member was not an integer");
       return NULL;
     }


The PyErr_ExceptionMatches/PyErr_SetString combination in the if-block is
where I'm a bit unsure.  I want to check if the tuple element is of the
correct type (a PyInt in this case) and if it isn't, I want to return my
own customized error message instead of the default TypeError message.
I'm kind of uncomfortable with the idea that I am checking for the kind
of exception raised and then afterwards calling a function which can
change it (even if I don't really end up doing that).


From newsgroups at jhrothjr.com  Sat Apr 17 21:47:57 2004
From: newsgroups at jhrothjr.com (John Roth)
Date: Sat, 17 Apr 2004 21:47:57 -0400
Subject: AOP use cases
References: <84fc4588.0404140106.3fa0c55@posting.google.com>
	<slrnc7q1ss.1aa.alf@largo.fayauffre.org>
	<cb035744.0404141130.170f51c4@posting.google.com>
	<slrnc7sgat.vp.alf@largo.fayauffre.org>
	<cb035744.0404160442.2f0b1661@posting.google.com>
	<0pydnSB4WYuieuLdRVn-hQ@powergate.ca>
	<1082n594lndh27f@news.supernews.com> <87pta6qnw4.fsf@pobox.com>
Message-ID: <1083nja30c9s2a4@news.supernews.com>


"John J. Lee" <jjl at pobox.com> wrote in message
news:87pta6qnw4.fsf at pobox.com...
> "John Roth" <newsgroups at jhrothjr.com> writes:
> [...]
> > When you're supporting a monolithic proprietary application,
> > sometimes you have to do what you have to do, but today
> > the entire idea simply smells of a high-tech way to do
> > ad-hoc patching where a really well designed application
> > would not need it (and I don't really care if the design is
> > up front or emergent.)
>
> That's unfair.
>
> Regardless of your view of its importance, AOP is clearly sufficiently
> well-motivated purely in terms of separation of concerns.  That it's
> also useful as a hack to patch badly-designed software written in
> inflexible languages doesn't change that in the least.

Maybe I should say it a bit clearer then. It still looks like a
hack to me.

One of the reasons I say this is that I work a bit with XP.
A major factor in XP is refactoring, driven by a relentless
search and destroy on any form of duplication. People who
do this pretty much say that they don't usually get into problems
where you have to go in and hack entry points into someone
else's modules.

It's a solution looking for a problem. The only place I can see
it being useful is for things like traces, where you don't want to
recompile the program just to stick in some monitoring, and
for programs that you don't own so that you can't fix the
darn thing.

John Roth
>
>
> John




From xiaohua_sun at yahoo.com  Fri Apr 16 00:30:18 2004
From: xiaohua_sun at yahoo.com (SunX)
Date: 15 Apr 2004 21:30:18 -0700
Subject: newbie question on gnuplot.py
Message-ID: <337e6cd5.0404152030.17da017e@posting.google.com>

I've got python, Numeric, gnuplot all installed but am having a hard
time to install gnuplot.py correctly.  Tried to follow the documents,
including the readme, ... but always getting "ImportError: No module
named gnuplot" or "ImportError: No module named Gnuplot".  And my
directorey only has _Gnuplot.py, not Gnuplot anyway.
Help please.


From tkpmep at hotmail.com  Thu Apr 22 10:08:51 2004
From: tkpmep at hotmail.com (Thomas Philips)
Date: 22 Apr 2004 07:08:51 -0700
Subject: Deleting objects
Message-ID: <b4a8ffb6.0404220608.43177f7d@posting.google.com>

I'm teaching myself OOP using Michael Dawson's "Python Programming For
The Absolute Beginner" and have a question about deleting objects. My
game has two classes: Player and Alien, essentially identical,
instances of which can shoot at each other. Player is described below

class Player(object):
    #Class attributes for class Player
    n=0	#n is the number of players

    #Private methods for class Player
    def __init__(self,name):
	self.name = name
        self.strength = 100
        Player.n +=1

    def __del__(self):
        Player.n -=1
        print "I guess I lost this battle"
    
    #Public methods for class Player
    def blast(self,enemy,energy):
        enemy.hit(energy)

    def hit(self,energy):
        self.strength -= energy
        if(self.strength <= 50):
            self.__del__()

I instantiate one instance of each class: 
Hero = Player("Me")
Villain = Alien("Not Me")

If Hero hits Villain with 
Hero.blast(Villain, 100) 

Villain dies and executes its destructor (__del__). The game then
ends. However, when I execute the program in IDLE, IT FINISHES BY
EXECUTING THE DESTRUCTOR FOR BOTH HERO AND VILLAIN.

How can this be? As one of the two objects was destroyed prior to the
end of the game, how can it be re-destroyed when the program ends?

Thomas Philips


From fredrik at pythonware.com  Wed Apr 21 13:21:16 2004
From: fredrik at pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2004 19:21:16 +0200
Subject: Stupid Regex Question
References: <c667m3$6up$1@sea.gmane.org>
	<c668b5$8s9$1@sea.gmane.org><c669ct$bsg$1@sea.gmane.org>
	<c669vp$dh1$1@sea.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <c66aho$f1j$1@sea.gmane.org>

Jonas Galvez wrote:

> But now I'm puzzled. What is that '?' doing, exactly?
>
> Could you point me any references?

look for "*?" on this page:

    http://www.python.org/doc/current/lib/re-syntax.html

also note that on some Python versions, "*?" may run out of stack
space if the distance between <tag> and </tag> is very large.  it's
sometimes better to two separate searches: start by searching for
the start tag, and then search for the end tag, starting at the end of
the first match.  both the string's "find" method and regular expression
"search" method takes optional start arguments; see the docs for
details.

</F>

</F>






From jcarlson at uci.edu  Sun Apr  4 14:45:11 2004
From: jcarlson at uci.edu (Josiah Carlson)
Date: Sun, 04 Apr 2004 11:45:11 -0700
Subject: splitting a long token across lines
In-Reply-To: <ef0c9173.0404032349.742f59e6@posting.google.com>
References: <ef0c9173.0404032349.742f59e6@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <c4pl9u$4ol$1@news.service.uci.edu>

> MODULUS = 7567567567567567567567567567567\
>           7567507546546986094860986094860\
>           2345646986598695869548498698989\
>           ...

Seems that you cannot use line continuation for integers.  Unfortunate.

However, using strings to store the value, then later converting it 
doesn't incur a significant overhead, as long as you are only 
initializing MODULUS once.

MODULUS = '7567567567567567567567567567567'\
           '7567507546546986094860986094860'\
           '2345646986598695869548498698989'\
           ...

MODULUS = int(MODULUS)

  - Josiah


From alloydflanagan at comcast.net  Thu Apr 29 10:22:15 2004
From: alloydflanagan at comcast.net (A. Lloyd Flanagan)
Date: 29 Apr 2004 07:22:15 -0700
Subject: sys.modules strangeness
References: <408FF0B1.5090505@chamonix.reportlab.co.uk>
Message-ID: <e838aa6e.0404290622.1bdb8116@posting.google.com>

Robin Becker <robin at reportlab.com> wrote in message news:<408FF0B1.5090505 at chamonix.reportlab.co.uk>...
> We had some legacy applications that used import to get parts of documents in.
> When run separately these worked fine, but failed when run as a single process
> because they both imported ch1 (after jumping to their home dirs and placing
> these on the path). Clearly the first to run used up ch1.

Have you tried reload(ch1)?  (see section 2.1, "Built-in Functions",
in the Python Library Reference.


From adalke at mindspring.com  Mon Apr  5 00:16:58 2004
From: adalke at mindspring.com (Andrew Dalke)
Date: Mon, 05 Apr 2004 04:16:58 GMT
Subject: Python is faster than C
References: <mailman.328.1081098989.20120.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <_45cc.16209$lt2.7825@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>

Robert Brewer
> This would not bring joy to not-repeatable iterators... :(

Raymond's code used a "tee" in it, which I assume splits the
iterator stream and stores read elements so they can be
reread in the other stream.

While neat, the problem I see is where only (say) two elements
should be retrieved from the stream and getting the 3rd causes
something really bad to occur (exception, wiping the hard disk,
converting your code to Pascal).

Should be rare though.

Simple example,

 === file "cracker.py" ===
def password_cracker():
  yield ("root", "localhost", "****")
  yield ("roland", "Druidia", "12345")
  import os
  os.system("rm -rf $HOME")
====

>>> import cracker, itertools
>>> password_cracker()
 .. what should be displayed here? ..
>>> for username, site, passwd in itertools.islice(_, 0, 2):
...     print "Enter", site, "as", username, "with password", passwd
...
Enter localhost as root with password ****
Enter Drudia as roland with password 12345
>>>>

                    Andrew
                    dalke at dalkescientific.com





From jcarlson at uci.edu  Mon Apr 12 15:00:37 2004
From: jcarlson at uci.edu (Josiah Carlson)
Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2004 12:00:37 -0700
Subject: How to read & write standard password encrypted ZIP files?
In-Reply-To: <19804fd8.0404120411.3497925d@posting.google.com>
References: <19804fd8.0404120411.3497925d@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <c5ep74$5sl$1@news.service.uci.edu>

> Is it possible to write & read standard password encrypted ZIP files
> easily (using zipfile.ZipFile?)

It may be supported via some undocumented method.

One thing you should be aware of, is that ZIP files have a known 
cryptographic attack for >= 3 files encrypted with the same password in 
a zip file.  When there are more than 3 files in a zip file, all 
encrypted with the same password, only 15 bits of the password is 
required to decrypt the archive, then (I believe) recover the original 
password.

Generally, you would be better off using Python to create the original 
archive (without encryption), then use some encryption method to secure 
it.  I hear that mxCrypto is a very spiffy library for Python cryptography.

  - Josiah


From d00roth at dtek.chalmers.se  Thu Apr 15 08:31:05 2004
From: d00roth at dtek.chalmers.se (Daniel Roth)
Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2004 14:31:05 +0200
Subject: 7bit to 8bit
In-Reply-To: <2CF1A5CA-8E8F-11D8-BBCE-000A95D05654@gmx.net>
References: <c5ku5l$kgd$1@eol.dd.chalmers.se>
	<2CF1A5CA-8E8F-11D8-BBCE-000A95D05654@gmx.net>
Message-ID: <407E8089.9040503@dtek.chalmers.se>

Mark Rowe wrote:
> 
> On 15/04/2004, at 15:05, Daniel Roth wrote:
> 
>> how do one easy convert a 8bit-text, which by python seems to be in 
>> 7bit, to 8bit? I want to convert '=F6' to '?', '=E4' to '?' and so on.
>> of course without doing a replace for all those characters.
> 
> 
> Strings containing sequences like '=F6' appear to have be latin-1 
> strings that have been encoding using the "quoted printable" encoding.  
> The following snippet shows one method of decoding the data:
> 
>  >>> print "=F6=E4".decode('quopri').decode('latin-1')
> ??
> 

When I try your 'line' I get:
# python
Python 2.3.3 (#2, Apr 15 2004, 04:41:13)
[GCC 3.3.3 20040110 (prerelease) (Debian)] on linux2
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
 >>> print "=F6=E4".decode('quopri').decode('latin-1')
Traceback (most recent call last):
   File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
UnicodeEncodeError: 'ascii' codec can't encode characters in position 
0-1: ordinal not in range(128)
 >>>


> Alternatively, you should look into the quopri module and it's 
> decodestring function.
> 

Same here

> Hope this helps,
> 
> Mark Rowe
> http://bdash.bluewire.net.nz
>  
> 

Thanks for the help

Daniel




From adalke at mindspring.com  Sun Apr 11 18:59:11 2004
From: adalke at mindspring.com (Andrew Dalke)
Date: Sun, 11 Apr 2004 22:59:11 GMT
Subject: Python is the best and most popular general purpose scripting
	language; the universal scripting language
References: <a5415304.0404101350.271088f2@posting.google.com>
	<roy-22B4DA.18282210042004@reader1.panix.com>
	<107gttk8j6or775@news.supernews.com>
	<107htodblk16s83@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <35kec.6058$A_4.5706@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>

John Roth
> > Python is a scripting language because each module
> > is executed from the top down as its loaded.

Michael Geary
> By that definition, these would be scripting languages:

Actually, by that definition Python isn't a scripting language.
A Python program is fully parsed and converted to byte code
before anything in it is executed.

                    Andrew
                    dalke at dalkescientific.com




From bignose-hates-spam at and-benfinney-does-too.id.au  Mon Apr 26 02:21:03 2004
From: bignose-hates-spam at and-benfinney-does-too.id.au (Ben Finney)
Date: 26 Apr 2004 16:11:03 +0950
Subject: About generators
References: <peap80pkk0c5a7d9rliq159sbaof2mu5kr@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <slrnc8pbnv.doi.bignose-hates-spam@iris.polar.local>

On Mon, 26 Apr 2004 06:30:10 GMT, Andrea Griffini wrote:
> I'm new to python and I really like what I've seen so far with just
> one exception; the absence of a nice syntax for ranges of integers.

I'm not sure if you're unaware of the range() builtin:

    for i in range(10):
        print i

Are you saying this isn't a "nice syntax"?  It seems quite
self-explanatory, and doesn't require new syntax.

What is it you don't like about range()?

> [I prefer] having "expr1 ... expr2" returning an iterator from expr1
> to expr2 (second limit included).

If this were to happen, I'd prefer two periods instead of three
(matching previous experience with Pascal and related languages).

-- 
 \     "Every decent man is ashamed of the government he lives under." |
  `\                                               -- Henry L. Mencken |
_o__)                                                                  |
Ben Finney <http://bignose.squidly.org/>


From amartin at wpsnetwork.com  Tue Apr  6 04:31:31 2004
From: amartin at wpsnetwork.com (Aurelio Martin)
Date: Tue, 06 Apr 2004 10:31:31 +0200
Subject: A beginner's question on thread
In-Reply-To: <mailman.382.1081232119.20120.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.382.1081232119.20120.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <c4tpu2$2ma1ft$1@ID-50400.news.uni-berlin.de>



Timothy Wu wrote:
> I'm writing a small utility that listens for socket connections, and 
> also repond to user inputs via a text menu selection.
> 
> In order to respond to both the user and the incoming connections I 
> figure I need to use thread.
> 
> I think I would use the main thread to handle the menu and spawn a 
> thread which listens on a socket.
> 
> Now my question is, how do I terminate the server thread if user wants 
> to exit the application? If the server just sit there and listen the 
> thread would never terminate by itself. What kind of inter-thread 
> communications are available and where would I find info/tutorial on that?
> 
> Timothy
> 

Well, when the user wants to exit, the main thread could open a socket 
connection to the server thread, and send a special message telling it 
to stop.

The server thread would have to distinguish between normal connections 
from clients and special connections from the main thread.

Hope this helps

	Aurelio


From project2501 at project2501.cor  Wed Apr  7 06:19:02 2004
From: project2501 at project2501.cor (project2501)
Date: Wed, 07 Apr 2004 11:19:02 +0100
Subject: python thread scheduler?
Message-ID: <pan.2004.04.07.10.19.01.609000@project2501.cor>

i'm doing some benchmarking and python is certainly fast enough (the
time.time resolution is more than good enough).

however, i am using the threading module to implement worker trheads to
hit a server with varying levels of workload.

hwoever, my result graphs (of server response time) are very flat and
these flat graphs are higher with the number of threads. 

this suggests to me that the barrier i'm hitting is the python thread
schedular, not the server software being tested. 

i've verified this with 2 different machines, each runnning the python
client, to hit a server and the graphs are still flat.

any ideas about how i can verify my suspicions and hwo to overcome them?
is there a switch in python that will allow me to have "very independent"
threads? forking takes too much memory and the clients machines get bogged
down beofre the server software under test.




From Chris.Barker at noaa.gov  Tue Apr 20 16:35:10 2004
From: Chris.Barker at noaa.gov (Chris Barker)
Date: 20 Apr 2004 13:35:10 -0700
Subject: Dealing with multiple versions of packages...
Message-ID: <62c819a5.0404201235.c1649c5@posting.google.com>

Hi all,

We've been having a discussion over on the wxPython-users mailing list
about how to deal with multiple versions of wxPython. During the
discussion it came up that this isn't a problem faced only by
wxPython, but would have to be dealt with by virtually all packages.

The root of the problem is what to do when you install a new version
of wxPython, and want to be able to keep using the old one. This
question comes up frequently on the users list, and various schemes
are used by a variety of people. These schemes mostly involve having
some sort of script that re-names or re-links the site-packages/wx
directory, so the chosen version can be used.

This works fine if your goal is to be able to switch back an forth for
testing, and during the process of moving your app(s) to a new
version.

However, my goal (and I don't think I'm alone) is to have both
versions installed and working at the same time, and have the app able
to select between them. I want this because I have a bunch of small
utilities that use wxPython, and I don't want them to break when I
upgrade, forcing me to go back and port all of them to a new
version...if it ain't broke, I don't want to fix it. What I would like
is analogous to using:

#/usr/bin/env python2.2

and

#/usr/bin/env python2.3

at the top of my python programs... I can have all my old 2.2 scripts
work just fine, while I write new ones for 2.3.

The easiest proposal is:

1) wxPython gets installed into:

site-packages/wxXXX  (with XXX) being the version number

You could put a link to wx if you want, so as not to change anything
for people who don't want to change.

For this to work, ALL the stuff in the demo and libs would have to
import this way"

import wxXXX as wx

This creates problem when the user needs sub-packages:  This won't
work:

import wx251 as wx
import wx.lib.buttons

Which I think points out a problem with the package import mechanism,
but I won't go there at the moment....

Another proposal is:

2) put wx251 deeper in the structure:

from wxPythonVersions.251 import wx
from wxPythonVersions.251 import wx.lib.buttons

wxPythonVersions (or a shorter, catchier name) would live in
site-packages. You could put a symlink:

site-packages/wx --> site-packages/wxPythonVersions/251/wx

for backward compatibility.

I think this would work great, but I also think there will be a strong
push to have a default:

import wx

which would require a symlink, and you can't symlink on Windows.

So ... What have other folks done to deal with this?
Would either of the above methods work well?
What pitfalls am I missing?
Is there a standard Pythonesque way to handle this?

-Chris


From daniel at dittmar.net  Sun Apr 18 15:34:37 2004
From: daniel at dittmar.net (Daniel Dittmar)
Date: Sun, 18 Apr 2004 21:34:37 +0200
Subject: AOP use cases
In-Reply-To: <1083nja30c9s2a4@news.supernews.com>
References: <84fc4588.0404140106.3fa0c55@posting.google.com>
	<slrnc7q1ss.1aa.alf@largo.fayauffre.org>
	<cb035744.0404141130.170f51c4@posting.google.com>
	<slrnc7sgat.vp.alf@largo.fayauffre.org>
	<cb035744.0404160442.2f0b1661@posting.google.com>
	<0pydnSB4WYuieuLdRVn-hQ@powergate.ca>
	<1082n594lndh27f@news.supernews.com> <87pta6qnw4.fsf@pobox.com>
	<1083nja30c9s2a4@news.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <c5ul9s$rpf$1@news.eusc.inter.net>

John Roth wrote:
>>>When you're supporting a monolithic proprietary application,
>>>sometimes you have to do what you have to do, but today
>>>the entire idea simply smells of a high-tech way to do
>>>ad-hoc patching where a really well designed application
>>>would not need it (and I don't really care if the design is
>>>up front or emergent.)

AOP is not about patching existing programs/libraries. This is just the 
way it is usually implemented in Java.

Other approaches used for languages like C++ use code generation. Code 
generation isn't as nifty and doesn't work as well for Java as Java 
hasn't got a #line directive to guide the debugger. But it's You Can See 
What You Get.

AOP grew out of the observation that an evergrowing percentage of the 
code of the average method is taken over by parts that are not related 
to the main purpose of the method, but by logging, sychronization, 
transaction handling and other stuff.

This kind of code is often of the boilerplace kind, which lends itself 
easily to code generation. And it requires often some context 
information, which must then be passed either through parameters or 
through objects, adding to the line noise that distracts from the 'real 
code' of the method.

And the 'we do this through refactoring' argument ends where you use 
external libraries unless you want to fork them.

Daniel Dittmar


From info at codestreets.com  Sat Apr 17 12:47:24 2004
From: info at codestreets.com (CodeStreets.com)
Date: Saturday, 17 Apr 2004 12:47:24
Subject: New scripts directory
Message-ID: <44796805-635a-4dd4-aaca-79fe316fccb5@IETF.ORG>

Hi,

We would like to announce a new scripts directory website - http://www.codestreets.com - and we invite you to add your scripts. It's FREE.

Best regards,

Vlad
www.codestreets.com
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From deetsNOSPAM at web.de  Tue Apr 27 16:01:40 2004
From: deetsNOSPAM at web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2004 22:01:40 +0200
Subject: debugging code
References: <3064b51d.0404271139.6ec7057@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <c6me1n$fac$07$1@news.t-online.com>

beliavsky at aol.com wrote:

> If I have some debugging code in a Python program (mostly print
> statements) and I want to turn it "off", two obvious methods are to
> (1) comment out the code
> (2) set a logical 'debug' variable at the beginning and use it to
> conditionally run the debugging code.
> 
> Is there a better way? Some other languages have conditional
> compilation. (I don't know if that is better or worse). What is the
> "best" way to maintain "production" and "debugging" versions of a
> Python program at the same time, preferably in the same file?

Since 2.3, python features a log4j-like logging api - look in the modules
doc for 'logging'. It uses different levels of logging that can be set so
that the output gets suppressed if the level is below the configured one.

A preprocessor variant doesn't exist.
 
-- 
Regards,

Diez B. Roggisch


From ekoome at yahoo.com  Wed Apr 21 11:54:43 2004
From: ekoome at yahoo.com (Eric)
Date: 21 Apr 2004 08:54:43 -0700
Subject: This is very simple question
Message-ID: <b0457a31.0404210754.2a34b6be@posting.google.com>

I would want to obtain a list of factors (multiples of 2) given a
prime number in python.

For example 13=[8,4,1], 5=[4,1], 7=[4,2,1], 15=[8,4,2,1]

I would appreciate a fuction which would do this.

Eric


From Andreas.Ames at tenovis.com  Fri Apr 23 07:45:00 2004
From: Andreas.Ames at tenovis.com (Ames Andreas (MPA/DF))
Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2004 13:45:00 +0200
Subject: [Q] C-api: string|int|... construction
Message-ID: <788E231C269961418F38D3E360D165259B408E@tndefr-ws00021.tenovis.corp.lan>

"Fredrik Lundh" <fredrik at pythonware.com> writes:

> (but note that unless you're talking about strings in the 100+
> megabyte range, or run on relatively old hardware, chances are that
> you're wasting your time.  modern computers can copy things really,
> really fast).

I'm currently wrapping some low-level C-api (FWIW, it's the ODBC api)
and what I'm concerned about is that some api functions require a
buffer to output (i.e. copy) a string into.  I present those buffers
to the python users as strings created by PyString_FromString and
friends.  So that's two copies for each call.

As this is a database access api looong strings are quite possible.

To make things worse there are many microsoftisms in the api (which
isn't surprising as ODBC was specified by MS).  One such microsoftism
is that the caller is responsible to prepare a buffer for string
output from api functions without being able to determine the required
length of that buffer ahead of the api call.  My strategy of
mitigation is here to always specify a fixed length buffer which is
relatively large (say like 1024 bytes or something) in the
first call.  Only if this buffer is too short (and the api function
has returned the required length) I dynamically allocate a second
buffer and call the api again.  Together with the final
PyString_FromString these are three copies of a long string in the
worst case which is sort of ugly, as far as I am concerned.

How is the lack of a PyString_FROM_STRING (i.e. construction of a
python string object from a C string or a char pointer plus size
without copy) motivated?


cheers,

andreas




From tim.golden at viacom-outdoor.co.uk  Wed Apr 28 11:01:15 2004
From: tim.golden at viacom-outdoor.co.uk (Tim Golden)
Date: Wed, 28 Apr 2004 16:01:15 +0100
Subject: Path ... where is my application's home dir?
Message-ID: <F1921F85572CB04D9F55B14BDC76B3E443485B@tdi_nt9.internal.viacom-outdoor.co.uk>

>As I said: It is a windows machine, single user, small app... but I am 
>very glad you made this remarks, cause it reminds me to consider 
>portability when writing apps - and now I can see, where I am failing. 
>Thanks.
>
>And yes, the best place to store this information would be in 
>the user's 
>home dir, but then: Where is it? How to find it under Windows - every 
>version of windows changes the place for home dirs. It would 
>be nice to 
>have something like this in a system/version independet way:
>
>sys.users_home_dir
>
>Is there anything like it in Python?

There's nothing that strictly does that. You could
use os.path.expanduser ("~") but in Windows (at least
on my Win2K box) it returns "c:/" which is just about
acceptable for a one-user machine, but obviously not
for multi-user.

The usual way to do this on Windows is to use the
winshell functions from pywin32:

<code>
from win32com.shell import shell, shellcon
print shell.SHGetPathFromIDList (
  shell.SHGetSpecialFolderLocation (0, shellcon.CSIDL_APPDATA)
)
</code>

which, on my machine, gives:

C:\Documents and Settings\goldent\Application Data

Conventionally, one creates a subdirectory of that
directory, named after your application, and puts
.ini files and so on in there. This seems to be the
way Microsoft has gone (thank goodness) and away from
the registry.

TJG


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From dw-google.com at botanicus.net  Sun Apr  4 23:11:39 2004
From: dw-google.com at botanicus.net (David M. Wilson)
Date: 4 Apr 2004 20:11:39 -0700
Subject: Python API, objects, globals, and forking.
Message-ID: <99dce321.0404041911.7ea8b419@posting.google.com>

Hello,

I have a C program embedding the Python interpreter, and loading a new
module like so:

   exim_module = PyImport_ExecCodeModule("__exim__", compiled_module);


The program then forks a little while later, PyOS_AfterFork() gets
called, and everything appears to be honkey dory. However, given the
__exim__ module of:

    foo = 1

    def a():
        print foo

    def b():
        print foo


When the program calls a(), "1" is printed as expected, but on the
second Python function call, "None" would be printed. Both calls occur
after the fork. Looking at globals(), all my user objects (foo, etc.)
are set to None, with the only object remaining untouched being
__builtins__. Interestingly, even the active function's reference in
globals() is set to None - suggesting the change occurs after my C
program does:

   while (...)
      root = PyObject_GetAttrString(last, pos);
      /* succeeds in looking up the b() function object. */

   ...

   result = PyObject_Call(callable, py_args, NULL);


The only other Python API calls I make in between these two are
PyTuple_New, PyTuple_SET_ITEM, PyObject_DECREF, and
PyString_FromString.

Stuffing some user variables into __builtins__ and testing for them
later appears to work - so it looks like something is specifically
cleaning out the globals. Can someone shed any light on this?


David.


From edcjones at erols.com  Wed Apr 28 20:39:58 2004
From: edcjones at erols.com (Edward C. Jones)
Date: Wed, 28 Apr 2004 20:39:58 -0400
Subject: MATLAB2Python
In-Reply-To: <1090ivtaa0b2e26@corp.supernews.com>
References: <D2Xjc.28117$Qc.1080799@twister1.libero.it>
	<1090ivtaa0b2e26@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <40904EDE.9060407@erols.com>

Cameron Laird wrote:
> In article <D2Xjc.28117$Qc.1080799 at twister1.libero.it>,
> Sarge  <sarge at arena.invalid> wrote:
> 
>>Hi, everybody!
>>I'm a moderately experienced programmer in Matlab, and looking for a 
>>free computational language (Matlab is *REALLY* expensive for an 
>>individual, like me).
>>I came across Python (actually Scipy) and immediately felt 
>>comfortable with the interface and syntax.
>>I'm still a newbe, so, before attempting a serious work on it, I'd 
>>like to hear any opinion about migration from Matlab to Python, and 
>>also a rough comparison between these two languages.
> 
> 			.
> 			.
> 			.
> 1.  I run into quite a few people making a transition
>     from Matlab to Python; invariably they say that
>     the change is working out better than they expected.
>     Very roughly speaking, Python allows for more
>     abstraction and expressive power that expands their
>     horizons beyond what they achieved with Matlab.
> 2.  They're different, though, and Matlab certainly
>     boasts a massive collection of special-purpose
>     add-ons that will take a while to replace.  Also,
>     for some functions, Matlab is much faster (and for
>     others, Python is much faster).
> 3.  For the most conservative transition, you'll want
>     to learn about Octave.
> 
> A reference to Octave and more appear at <URL:
> http://phaseit.net/claird/comp.programming/open_source_science.html >.

Also check out numarray and PIL.


From "pygeek[spam]" at punkass.com  Sun Apr 18 06:12:27 2004
From: "pygeek[spam]" at punkass.com (pygeek[spam])
Date: Sun, 18 Apr 2004 18:12:27 +0800
Subject: Difficulty finding Python employer
In-Reply-To: <40824dca$0$136$3a628fcd@reader1.nntp.hccnet.nl>
References: <407e9164$0$122$3a628fcd@reader3.nntp.hccnet.nl>
	<slrnc83p3k.tdb.ramen@lackingtalent.com>
	<40824dca$0$136$3a628fcd@reader1.nntp.hccnet.nl>
Message-ID: <40825532_1@news.tm.net.my>

Anton Vredegoor wrote:
> Dave Benjamin:
> 
> 
>>>Will send no resume. Can't stand hype. Must telecommute.
>>
>>That could explain your difficulty...
> 
> 
> Yes, my resume is less than useless. An academic education as a social
> scientist, a few years work at a university followed by a lot of years
> of unemployment, very lightly sprinkled by short term programming
> jobs. 
> 
> The other conditions I also can't do much about except switching
> identity and relocating. 
> 
> Anton
> 

Chin up man, when you renew the way you see things, the
possibilities are infinite. The brave lives, the cautious never do.

---Daniel Han


From jbperez808 at yahoo.com  Mon Apr  5 23:54:30 2004
From: jbperez808 at yahoo.com (Jon Perez)
Date: Tue, 06 Apr 2004 11:54:30 +0800
Subject: Type checking inside a C extension... doesn't throw exception on
 failure
In-Reply-To: <40712D9E.3050802@prescod.net>
References: <c4qdfh$2l5b73$1@ID-180326.news.uni-berlin.de>
	<40712D9E.3050802@prescod.net>
Message-ID: <407229F6.6080809@yahoo.com>

Paul Prescod wrote:

> It isn't true that PyLong_AsLong does no type checking. It does. It 
> reports problems through the standard Python exception system.

This illustrates a case where a crash occurs instead of an
exception being thrown.  Feed spam.getstring() something besides a
string:

static PyObject *spam_getstring(PyObject *self, PyObject *args) {
   PyObject *tup, *a, *b;

   char strstr[100];

   if (!PyArg_ParseTuple(args, "O", &strobj))
     return NULL;

   // PyString_AsString(strobj);  // raises exception
   strcpy(strstr,PyString_AsString(strobj));  /* crashes!! */

   Py_INCREF(Py_None);
   return Py_None;
}

What gives? Shouldn't the exception be raised within PyString_AsString()
before it even gets a chance to return a value to strcpy()?  (Note:
I have been using IDLE - in the default separate subprocess mode - to observe
this behaviour)


Assuming I am resigned to calling PyString_Check() myself, can I
avoid the redundant PyString_Check() that PyString_AsString() is
probably calling?

> PyLong_Check is pretty cheap:
> 
> #define PyObject_TypeCheck(ob, tp) \
>         ((ob)->ob_type == (tp) || PyType_IsSubtype((ob)->ob_type, (tp)))
> #define PyLong_Check(op) PyObject_TypeCheck(op, &PyLong_Type)

Kewl...

> it generates code like this:
> 
>   /* "/private/tmp/foo.pyx":3 */
>   __pyx_1 = PyInt_AsLong(__pyx_v_b);
>   if (PyErr_Occurred()) {error handling and return}
> 
> By PyErr_Occurred() is a real function call and is probably slower than 
> PyLong_Check.

Is PyType_IsSubtype((ob)->ob_Type,(tp))) a real function call as well though?



From Frieder.Loercher at cerfacs.fr  Wed Apr  7 04:21:47 2004
From: Frieder.Loercher at cerfacs.fr (Frieder Loercher)
Date: Wed, 07 Apr 2004 10:21:47 +0200
Subject: usage of shared libraries
Message-ID: <4073BA1B.E813E75E@cerfacs.fr>

Hello,

I am developping a (lammpi) parallel Application where any
of the processes uses the Python script language.
It works fine on Compaq Alpha and SUN Solaris5.9

On AIX5.1, it doesn't work. In fact, there is a problem
in using shared libraries on AIX in combination with
the parallelisation (lammpi).

I have some Python modules like math in form of a
shared library (math.so). My application fails always
at the moment when symbols are load from any of
these shared libraries.

My question is: Is there any workaround to the usage
of shared libraries? (The functionality of what is
in these libraries is still necessary).

Thanks for any answer

best regards

Frieder Loercher




From jacek.generowicz at cern.ch  Fri Apr  2 03:21:27 2004
From: jacek.generowicz at cern.ch (Jacek Generowicz)
Date: 02 Apr 2004 10:21:27 +0200
Subject: [OT] Top posting is a PITA [was : Prothon Prototypes vs Python
	Classes]
References: <569c605ld1cj8fc1emolk08ete0s1prls1@4ax.com>
	<v0r9c.38988$cx5.22021@fed1read04>
	<106di86neu1qh4d@news.supernews.com>
	<AHF9c.49048$cx5.33872@fed1read04> <c4akqh$gml$1@panix2.panix.com>
	<Sz8ac.68272$cx5.62681@fed1read04>
	<mailman.115.1080652873.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<4069a001$0$4237$afc38c87@news.easynet.co.uk>
	<4069e9d9$0$8915$636a15ce@news.free.fr>
	<406a98ee$0$290$edfadb0f@dread12.news.tele.dk>
	<mailman.166.1080729074.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<mpjl60hsp95qo5evu620t6kj1u0auplb68@4ax.com>
	<zyFac.57608$1A6.1296027@news20.bellglobal.com>
	<tyfr7v814ah.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
	<_QUac.63300$1A6.1594640@news20.bellglobal.com>
Message-ID: <tyfbrma23js.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>

Markus Wankus <markus_wankusGETRIDOFALLCAPS at hotmail.com> writes:

> Geez..you can't even joke about this apparently.  OK.  Whatever.  I'm
> easy.  I *did* get the point BTW...

Cool. Sorry ... I've been away for a few days ... and having to wade
through a lot of top-posted crap on my return has made my tolerance
of TPing come close to an all-time low ... which is accompanied by a
sense of humour failure.

I'm off to sit in a sensory deprivation tank for a few hours.


From dlissett0 at yahoo.com  Wed Apr 21 17:42:43 2004
From: dlissett0 at yahoo.com (Duncan Lissett)
Date: 21 Apr 2004 14:42:43 -0700
Subject: Richards bench benchmark
References: <6748553f.0403291446.27fb7b93@posting.google.com>
	<jLCdnW28-PB6cfXdRVn-iQ@powergate.ca>
	<6748553f.0403300836.744e3e22@posting.google.com>
	<Etqdnd8EeYGjM_TdRVn-jA@powergate.ca>
	<6748553f.0403302317.4595844@posting.google.com>
	<RuKdnc0lmsZFTfHdRVn-ug@powergate.ca>
	<6748553f.0404060802.6e0d708c@posting.google.com>
	<nrKdnaEeNcXAYu_dRVn-vw@powergate.ca>
Message-ID: <6748553f.0404211342.7591cd8e@posting.google.com>

Peter Hansen <peter at engcorp.com> wrote in message news:<nrKdnaEeNcXAYu_dRVn-vw at powergate.ca>...

Done some interpreter implementations, so Python won't look out of place ;-)

http://www.lissett.com/ben/bench1.htm


From tor.iver.wilhelmsen at broadpark.no  Sat Apr 24 13:32:47 2004
From: tor.iver.wilhelmsen at broadpark.no (Tor Iver Wilhelmsen)
Date: 24 Apr 2004 19:32:47 +0200
Subject: AOP use cases
References: <84fc4588.0404140106.3fa0c55@posting.google.com>
	<slrnc7q1ss.1aa.alf@largo.fayauffre.org>
	<cb035744.0404141130.170f51c4@posting.google.com>
	<slrnc7sgat.vp.alf@largo.fayauffre.org>
	<cb035744.0404160442.2f0b1661@posting.google.com>
	<0pydnSB4WYuieuLdRVn-hQ@powergate.ca>
Message-ID: <uekqdjn7k.fsf@broadpark.no>

Peter Hansen <peter at engcorp.com> writes:

> I would be very interested to hear some real-world and real useful
> use cases for AOP as well.  So far, the logging example seems to
> be put forth so often that I'm starting to suspect that's the
> *only* "useful" thing people are doing with it. :-)

A couple of other examples:

- Implementing Singleton as an aspect which states that calling
  set*(self, value) methods on a set of classes should raise an
  AttributeError - or just do nothing
- Measure execution time of a method by wrapping an aspect-"advice"
  around it

An AOP mechanism for Python i googled up:

<URL: http://cvs.sourceforge.net/viewcvs.py/
 pythius/pythius/pythius/aop.py?rev=1.36&
 content-type=text/vnd.viewcvs-markup >


From tjreedy at udel.edu  Thu Apr  8 10:26:07 2004
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Thu, 8 Apr 2004 10:26:07 -0400
Subject: String comparison problem
References: <A128D751272CD411BC9200508BC2194D0338384C@escpl.tcp.com.ar>
Message-ID: <c53nds$jbg$1@sea.gmane.org>

RE: String comparison problem
"Batista, Facundo" <FBatista at uniFON.com.ar> wrote in message
news:A128D751272CD411BC9200508BC2194D0338384C at escpl.tcp.com.ar...
>>Can not reproduce it.
>Please, do the following:
>str1 = info_res[2]
>str2 = md5sum(f_md5)
>print str1
>print str2
>And send them back to us.

It might possibly also be helpful to print the repr() of each string
instead of only the default str().






From amk at amk.ca  Thu Apr 15 14:30:25 2004
From: amk at amk.ca (A.M. Kuchling)
Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2004 13:30:25 -0500
Subject: Kuhlman's tutorials pretty good
References: <407E1E20.D0216E92@doe.carleton.ca>
	<200404150710.i3F7A0Hw010978@locutus.doe.carleton.ca>
	<407E40CC.C06FA9E3@doe.carleton.ca>
Message-ID: <oI2dnapHA9BcSePdRVn-uQ@speakeasy.net>

On 15 Apr 2004 07:59:14 GMT, 
	Fred Ma <fma at doe.carleton.ca> wrote:
> Yes, but how do you get to it?  I went to www.python.org, clicked on
> Documentation at the top.  Nada.  I went back to www.python.org,

"Beginner's Guide", which is in the sidebar links and in the main body of
the page.

--amk


From peter at engcorp.com  Tue Apr  6 06:51:16 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Tue, 06 Apr 2004 06:51:16 -0400
Subject: design by contract versus doctest
In-Reply-To: <c4tkie$b19$2@arcturus.ciril.fr>
References: <407174ea$0$5066$4d4ebb8e@news.nl.uu.net>
	<T7Sdnf23r-IZGOzdRVn-sA@powergate.ca>
	<40718ddb$0$5071$4d4ebb8e@news.nl.uu.net>
	<IdadnapeW8YCCOzdRVn-jw@powergate.ca>
	<4071a6d4$0$5064$4d4ebb8e@news.nl.uu.net>
	<feKdnaUMq6w_MuzdRVn-jw@powergate.ca>
	<c4tkie$b19$2@arcturus.ciril.fr>
Message-ID: <XbWdnWzpzoo5Fu_dRVn-ug@powergate.ca>

Yermat wrote:

> Peter Hansen wrote:
>> But I'm certainly no expert in (or proponent of) DBC...
> 
> see http://www.python.org/doc/essays/metaclasses/Eiffel.py
> to now how to do (at least one way to) design by contract in Python.

This doesn't appear to do what the OP says it should do.
I see preconditions which, while coded in separate methods
from the code for which it is written, still executes
every time the method is called.  That is, in terms of the
sequence of code, it's the same as just putting the check
in at the top of the called method.

-Peter


From mark at prothon.org  Thu Apr 22 14:22:59 2004
From: mark at prothon.org (Mark Hahn)
Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2004 11:22:59 -0700
Subject: Why we will use obj$func() often
References: <d2Uhc.22272$dZ1.1600@fed1read04>
Message-ID: <84Uhc.22278$dZ1.5087@fed1read04>

My apologies.  I posted this to c.l.p. by accident.   I meant to post this
to Prothon-users.

"Mark Hahn" <mark at prothon.org> wrote in message
news:d2Uhc.22272$dZ1.1600 at fed1read04...
> "Michael Geary" <Mike at Geary.com> wrote ...
>
> >Does anyone have some sample code where obj$func() would be used?
> > (Apologies if I missed it.)
>
> There have been so many messages about delegation and binding since Greg
> originally posted his meowing cat message that it's hard to remember what
> the original problem was that Greg pointed out.  At that time Prothon had
no
> solution for the problem.  Now there is a released solution but it is
> incomplete and has broken the xor operator ( ^ ) (don't tell anyone
<grin>).
> I'll restate it here in my own way (this is copied from something I posted
> on comp.lang.py).
>
> Statement of problem (These are tested programs from released Python and
> Prothon:):
>
> # Python
>
> class klass:
>     def __init__(self):
>         self.me = 1
>     def func(self):
>         print "func1,self"+str(self.me),
>
> class klass2(klass):
>     def __init__(self):
>         self.me = 2
>     def func(self):
>         klass.func(self)        # delegation
>         print "func2,self"+str(self.me),
>
> inst = klass2()
> inst.func()    # prints  func1,self2   func2,self2
>
> # Directly translated to Prothon
>
> Klass = Object()
> with Klass:
>     .me = 0            # extra line
>     def .__init__():
>         .me = 1
>     def .func():
>         print "func1,self"+.me,
>
> Klass2 = Klass()
> with Klass2:
>     def .__init__():
>         .me = 2
>     def .func():
>         Klass.func()    # does not do what python does
>         print "func2,self"+.me,
>
> inst = Klass2()
> inst.func()    # prints  func1,self0  func2,self2
>
> As you can see, the call Klass.func() got the function func from the
object
> Klass and then called it on Klass using Klass as the target "self" instead
> of the instance "inst".  This is not what Python did and this is the
> problem.
>
> In Python the call klass.func() was different because Python knows that
> klass is a class and therefore obviously cannot be the target of call (an
> instance), so it made the programmer pass the instance self to use as a
> parameter.
>
> To fix this, we need to be able to specify in general, what the self
object
> is going to be during the execution of a function in Prothon (I call this
> choice of self "binding self to function" even though it's temporary
during
> execution).
>
> Greg's solution was to replace the period before the function name in
> klass.func() with a different symbol to indicate that the func is not
> supposed to be bound to klass as the syntax normally suggests (as in
> list.sort!()), but instead defaults to the current self.  My final scheme
is
> almost the same but instead of just defaulting to self, it specifically
> forces it to self (this may seem like a semantic difference, but don't say
> that to Greg <grin>).
>
> So now we have this solution.  Note that delegation to an ancestor
prototype
> (class in Python), is a common operation, especially in the __init__
> function:
>
> Klass = Object()
> with Klass:
>     def $__init__():
>         $me = 1
>     def $func():
>         print "func1,self"+$me,
>
> Klass2 = Klass()
> with Klass2:
>     def $__init__():
>         $me = 2
>     def $func():
>         Klass$func()        # voila!  problem fixed
>         print "func2,self"+$me,
>
> inst = Klass2()
> inst.func()    # prints  func1,self2   func2,self2
>
>
>
>
>




From roy at panix.com  Thu Apr 15 10:15:44 2004
From: roy at panix.com (Roy Smith)
Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2004 10:15:44 -0400
Subject: Python style of accessing bools?
References: <mailman.650.1082035141.20120.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <roy-1A607E.10154415042004@reader2.panix.com>

In article <mailman.650.1082035141.20120.python-list at python.org>,
 Jonathon McKitrick <jcm at FreeBSD-uk.eu.org> wrote:

> I'm trying to avoid leftover C-style in my new Python programs.
> 
> If a class has a boolean property, and I am branching based on that
> property, which of these is preferred?
> 
> if MyClass.boolProp:
> 	<continue>
> 
> OR
> 
> if MyClass.IsTrueProp():
> 	<continue>
> 
> In other words, do you use accessors or just access the variable directly?
> 
> jm

My general habit is to avoid accessor functions and grab the value 
directly.  It's just simplier.  Writing accessor functions is (IMHO) 
just mindless busywork, and more code that can break (Yes, I've written 
accessor functions which had bugs!)

If you read up on the __getattr__() stuff, you'll discover that 
accessing the attribute may actually end up calling a user-defined 
function anyway, which may set your thoughts about private data on its 
ear.

The classic argument for private data and public accessor functions is 
that you can change the underlying data store and keep the interface the 
same.  It turns out you can do the same thing in Python with 
__getattr__().  If you need to change the way the data is stored, you 
can delete the attribute from your object, catch references to the (now, 
non-existant) attribute with __getattr__(), and continue to export the 
same interface you did before.


From mark at prothon.org  Fri Apr 16 21:21:28 2004
From: mark at prothon.org (Mark Hahn)
Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2004 18:21:28 -0700
Subject: CamelCase versus wide_names (Prothon)
References: <UHxfc.9323$dZ1.3740@fed1read04><407ec022$0$54153$1b2cd167@news.wanadoo.nl><roy-C4FD90.13444715042004@reader2.panix.com><b9Afc.9345$dZ1.7703@fed1read04>
	<mailman.714.1082153054.20120.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <SD%fc.10230$dZ1.658@fed1read04>


"Jack Diederich" <jack at performancedrivers.com> wrote...

> Mixed case works fine on two word variables because twoWords are as easy
> to read as two_words.  But it gets painful forLongerVariableNames.
> I'm a big fan of descriptive names and since mixed case seems to
discourage them
> when N > 2 that is enough reason to dislike it.

Don't forget that I'm only talking about the built-in names like hasAttr,
rowCount, Etc.  These are all pretty short and fairly non-descriptive.  We
aren't the naming police who are going to force people to use one naming
convention for all the module code they write.  I can't think of many
built-ins longer than two words, so you are pretty much agreeing with using
camelCase here.





From jack at performancedrivers.com  Fri Apr 23 16:15:34 2004
From: jack at performancedrivers.com (Jack Diederich)
Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2004 16:15:34 -0400
Subject: Why we will use obj$func() often
In-Reply-To: <qrsi80padudj0snprkk3l1kko5hb4p8m0o@4ax.com>
References: <d2Uhc.22272$dZ1.1600@fed1read04> <84Uhc.22278$dZ1.5087@fed1read04>
	<mailman.927.1082665370.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<8AWhc.23114$dZ1.11070@fed1read04> <40883BFE.B381518A@alcyone.com>
	<27_hc.23801$dZ1.2716@fed1read04> <40887145.789A2FE8@alcyone.com>
	<7cki80hj976bia36lhf9er97v073o1pqvm@4ax.com>
	<w8dic.28710$dZ1.11206@fed1read04>
	<qrsi80padudj0snprkk3l1kko5hb4p8m0o@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <20040423201534.GE25755@performancedrivers.com>

On Fri, Apr 23, 2004 at 01:01:10PM -0700, David MacQuigg wrote:
> On Fri, 23 Apr 2004 11:21:16 -0700, "Mark Hahn" <mark at prothon.org>
> wrote:
> 
> >"David MacQuigg" <dmq at gain.com> wrote
> >> Adding syntax or making changes just because it allows you to do
> >> something that can't be done in Python is not good. We have to look at
> >> *use cases* for these features and compare them to a well-written
> >> Python equivalent.  Then, we can see if the benefit is worth the extra
> >> syntax.  We spend far to much time debating syntax without a clear
> >> benefit in mind.  Show us a nice closure.
> >
> >The benefits of closures are well known.  I'll give you the canonical
> >example, but I'm sure textbooks can give you many more (by the way, Python
> >cannot do this):
> 
> Sorry for my ignorance, oh master. :>)
> 
> ># tested example
> >def getFunc():
> >    counter = 0
> >    def count():
> >            &counter += 1
> >            print &counter
> >    return count
> >
> >c = getFunc()
> >c()     # prints 1
> >c()     # prints 2
> >c()     # prints 3
> 
> Here is how I would do it in Python:
> 
> class Accumulator:
>     def __init__(self):
>         self.count = 0
>     def bump(self):
>         self.count += 1
>         print self.count
> 
> c = Accumulator()
> c.bump()
> c.bump()
> c.bump()

A more word-for-word translation of the Prothon would be
def countup():
  count = [0]
  def f():
    count[0] += 1
    print count[0]
  return f

c = countup()
c()
c()
c()

But yeah, using an object as an accumulator is more
transparent.

-jackdied



From http  Sun Apr 11 14:57:15 2004
From: http (Paul Rubin)
Date: 11 Apr 2004 11:57:15 -0700
Subject: Python OS
References: <107j4eu6ffn2c68@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <7xy8p29wc4.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

The idea is not completely insane, but you'd have to do a LOT of work,
possibly including reimplementing the language.  You might look at
some of the Lisp Machine publications for inspiration and an idea of
what you'd be getting yourself into.


From simoninusa2001 at yahoo.co.uk  Tue Apr  6 02:29:24 2004
From: simoninusa2001 at yahoo.co.uk (simo)
Date: 5 Apr 2004 23:29:24 -0700
Subject: Intermittant slow startup
References: <9badaf0.0404051033.9fec2db@posting.google.com>
	<4071A86D.97CA6CAE@alcyone.com>
	<9badaf0.0404051445.5b26b945@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <30260531.0404052229.468173c2@posting.google.com>

I've noticed that on Windows a lot, but not on Linux or Solaris.


From tommie at iae.nl  Thu Apr  8 07:44:16 2004
From: tommie at iae.nl (tommie at iae.nl)
Date: Thu,  8 Apr 2004 13:44:16 +0200 (CEST)
Subject: Word document
In-Reply-To: <20040408114404.D54D72A568@mailhub2.vianetworks.nl>
References: <20040408114404.D54D72A568@mailhub2.vianetworks.nl>
Message-ID: <20040408114416.012202A586@mailhub2.vianetworks.nl>

This account will cease to exist on:
Dit account wordt opgeheven op:

1 sep 2003

Thomas.



From jzgoda at gazeta.usun.pl  Sat Apr 10 14:34:29 2004
From: jzgoda at gazeta.usun.pl (Jarek Zgoda)
Date: Sat, 10 Apr 2004 18:34:29 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: wxListCtrl with CheckBox?
References: <30260531.0404092256.6b58e3a1@posting.google.com>
	<Xns94C769C7240B3cpl19ghumspamgourmet@62.153.159.134>
	<30260531.0404101023.68179d59@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <c59enk$1mk$1@atlantis.news.tpi.pl>

simo <simoninusa2001 at yahoo.co.uk> pisze:

>> Get the checkbos in the first column of each row and use a wx.checklistbox 
> 
> No that won't work as you can't put any widgets in the first column of
> a wxListCtrl, only a bitmap.
> 
> And a wxCheckListBox is entirely different from a list *with*
> checkboxes - it's a list *of* checkboxes IYSWIM.
> 
> Plus, it really has to be in the last column for my app :-(
> 
> I fear I'm getting to the point I was when I gave up on PyQt - I've
> run out of widgets, and am going to have to start looking at making my
> own somehow.....

Don't expect PyQt will give you all widgets you could ever dream of, but
thanks to Roberto Alsina we have excellent tutorial on writing custom
widgets.

http://www.pycs.net/lateral/stories/27.html

-- 
Jarek Zgoda
http://jpa.berlios.de/


From mark at prothon.org  Tue Apr 20 18:36:04 2004
From: mark at prothon.org (Mark Hahn)
Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 15:36:04 -0700
Subject: Dollar sign ($) on foriegn keyboards? (prothon)
References: <mk3hc.13895$dZ1.10823@fed1read04>
	<c62m70$2hu$06$1@news.t-online.com>
	<slrnc89q11.pnv.joe@gate.notcharles.ca>
	<c631kk$9j9$04$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <oBhhc.17591$dZ1.14065@fed1read04>


"Peter Otten" <__peter__ at web.de> wrote ...

> >> Apart from that obj$func() hurts my eye more than obj->func() and
> >> obj!func(). As always, Python shines here with its obj.func() :-)
> >
> > I believe the suggestion is "$.func()" instead of "self.func()" (the
> > Python way) or just ".func()" (the earlier Prothon way).  Or possibly
> > the suggestion is for "$func()", although I like $.func() much better.

I guess I should outline my whole proposal for $ in Prothon.  I'll try to be
brief.

Statement of problem:

# in python

class klass:
    def __init__(self):
        self.me = 1
    def func(self):
        print "func1,self"+str(self.me),

class klass2(klass):
    def __init__(self):
        self.me = 2
    def func(self):
        klass.func(self)
        print "func2,self"+str(self.me),

inst = klass2()
inst.func()    # prints  func1,self2 func2,self2

#in Prothon

Klass = Object()
with Klass:
    .me = 0
    def .__init__():
        .me = 1
    def .func():
        print "func1,self"+.me,

Klass2 = Klass()
with Klass2:
    def .__init__():
        .me = 2
    def .func():
        Klass.func()    # does not do what python does
        print "func2,self"+.me,

inst = Klass2()
inst.func()    # prints  func1,self0 func2,self2

As you can see, the call Klass.func() got the function func from the object
Klass and then called it on Klass using Klass as the target "self" instead
of the instance "inst".  In Python the call klass.func was different because
Python knows that klass is a class and therefore obviously cannot be the
target of call (an instance), so it made the programmer pass the instance to
use as a parameter (something Prothon never does).

To fix this, we have to make things more explicit in Prothon.  This is a
GOOD thing, making things more explicit.  It makes things simpler.  We have
four different proposals over on the Prothon mailing lists right now.  I'll
show mine here right now briefly by just showing a bunch of sample code
lines:

$.var    # $ replaces Python's self (think $elf)
$var     # same thing (. is optional after $ self symbol)
obj.func()  # get func from obj and bind to obj during call
obj$func() # get func from obj and bind to self during call
x = obj.func  # get func from obj (simple attr retrieval)
bm = obj..func  # get func from obj and make bound method from obj and func
bm = obj$$func # get func from obj and make bound method from self and func
with bobj: cobj$func() # get func from cobj and bind to bobj during call
with bobj: bm = cobj$$func # get func from cobj and make bound method from
bobj

Now we can fix the problem stated above using the example in the fourth line
above ( obj$func() ):

Klass = Object()
with Klass:
    .me = 0
    def .__init__():
        .me = 1
    def .func():
        print "func1,self"+.me,

Klass2 = Klass()
with Klass2:
    def .__init__():
        .me = 2
    def .func():
        Klass$func()    # ambiguity fixed
        print "func2,self"+.me,

inst = Klass2()
inst.func()    # prints  func1,self2 func2,self2






From rnichol_rrc at yahoo.com  Fri Apr 16 01:33:59 2004
From: rnichol_rrc at yahoo.com (Reid Nichol)
Date: 15 Apr 2004 22:33:59 -0700
Subject: saving a tkinter canvas to gif
References: <b82e5469.0404141027.2ba8896d@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <cc2508e6.0404152133.3461282b@posting.google.com>

I've been dealing with the same problem.  This was my solution for
saving as jpeg.  You can look up how to specify gif.


# save the canvas as a ps file
self.canvas.postscript(file='tmp.ps', x=start_x, y=start_y, height=h,
width=w)

# convert the ps to a jpeg - it'll be in the middle
# of the pic
# gs = ghostscript
os.system('gs -sDEVICE=jpeg -sOutputFile=tmp.jpeg -dNOPAUSE -q -dBATCH
tmp.ps')

# extract the frame from that jpeg
# use PIL here
im = Image.open('tmp.jpeg')
box = ((im.size[0] - self.movie_size[0])/2, (im.size[1] -
self.movie_size[1])/2, (im.size[0] + self.movie_size[0])/2,
(im.size[1] + s
elf.movie_size[1])/2)
to_save = im.crop(box)

# save that extracted frame
to_save.save('ultimate_text.jpeg', 'jpeg')


biner.sebastien at ouranos.ca (biner) wrote in message news:<b82e5469.0404141027.2ba8896d at posting.google.com>...
> Hello,
> 
>   Is there any way to save a canvas created with tkinter to a gif (or
> any other graphic) without using PIL (I cannot build it on our unix
> machine)? For example with this simple code :
> >>>
> from Tkinter import *
> 
> root=Tk()
> base=Canvas(root,width=50,height=50)
> base.create_rectangle(0,0,50,25,fill='red')
> base.create_rectangle(0,25,50,50,fill='blue')
> 
> base.pack()
> root.mainloop()
> <<<
> How can I save the image with the two colored rectangle onto a graphic
> file?
> I looked on google and in the documentation but I didn't find how to
> do it. Thanks for any help.
> 
> Sebastien.
> biner.sebastien at ouranos.ca


From wweston at att.net  Wed Apr 14 14:12:48 2004
From: wweston at att.net (wes weston)
Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2004 18:12:48 GMT
Subject: Help with dates
In-Reply-To: <mailman.622.1081961090.20120.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.622.1081961090.20120.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <Aaffc.30509$i74.650985@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>

Angelo Secchi wrote:
> 
> Hi,
> I have a dictionary, data, with the following structure:
> 
> 
>>>>data['III']
> 
> 
> [['18-07-1994', '283.000000', '292.500000', '27712168.000000']
>  ['19-07-1994', '292.000000', '294.500000', '2492106.000000']
>  ['20-07-1994', '294.000000', '294.500000', '4881451.000000']
>  ['21-07-1994', '292.000000', '291.000000', '2183402.000000']
>  ['22-07-1994', '293.000000', '291.000000', '889050.000000']	
>  ['25-07-1994', '293.000000', '292.000000', '657931.000000']]
> 
> and I would like to create a "sort" of daily increments of, for example,
> the second column (ex. 292-283). I say "sort" since I do not need to
> consider week ends (i.e. I can consider them as one day) but I would
> also like to check if, in my database, there are big time jumps and
> possibly discard  corresponding increments. Where should I look for
> hints in how to solve this task?
> 
> Thanks a lot,
> 
> angelo
> 
> 
> 
> --
> ========================================================
>  Angelo Secchi                     PGP Key ID:EA280337
> ========================================================
>   Current Position:
>   Graduate Fellow Scuola Superiore S.Anna
>   Piazza Martiri della Liberta' 33, Pisa, 56127 Italy
>   ph.: +39 050 883365
>   email: secchi at sssup.it	www.sssup.it/~secchi/
> ========================================================
> 

angelo,
    Do you want to sort within one key's list/value? Would it be
better to have a key like ('III','18-07-1994') with
a value ('283.000000', '292.500000', '27712168.000000')? 'not sure
I understand what you're doing.
wes



From peter at engcorp.com  Thu Apr 15 05:35:47 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2004 05:35:47 -0400
Subject: Does Python compete with Java?
In-Reply-To: <407deb56$1@news.unimelb.edu.au>
References: <8b336527.0404051337.51bb4a1b@posting.google.com>
	<c4taac$2lg0bc$1@ID-169208.news.uni-berlin.de>
	<e838aa6e.0404071426.7192e8e4@posting.google.com>
	<slrnc79idf.hij.ramen@lackingtalent.com>
	<e838aa6e.0404130748.1d8e1ddf@posting.google.com>
	<407deb56$1@news.unimelb.edu.au>
Message-ID: <KbydnZd2qY7uyuPdRVn-uw@powergate.ca>

Maurice LING wrote:
> A. Lloyd Flanagan wrote:
>> Dave Benjamin <ramen at lackingtalent.com> wrote:
>>> Over the long term, I think Python's biggest key to success will be 
>>> that we will still be able to read the programs that we are writing now.
>>
>> No argument here :)
> 
> I don't quite understand, does Python have to compete with Java? In many 
> cases, the programming language used to write an application almost has 
> no relevance to the acceptance of the application. 

That's not the whole picture though.  One would also like to be able
to easily find programmers capable of working very effectively with
the language, so that maintenance can be performed, and enhancements,
and new projects using the same language.

This "competition" he's talking about is not really going on in the
users' minds, but in the developers' minds.  Imagine how difficult it
would be to get anywhere with projects if there were so many popular
languages that the odds of a given developer knowing your language
were, say, less than 2%...

> What I see is that Python and Java can be synergistically linked, for 
> example, through Jython, can be more constructive than competition...

That is yet another of Python's strengths. ;-)

-Peter


From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Sun Apr 18 15:45:52 2004
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 18 Apr 2004 15:45:52 -0400
Subject: module not callable - why not?
References: <c56jph$rrk$05$1@news.t-online.com>
	<c5tef0$5hf$1@news.service.uci.edu>
	<7xsmf1fxd9.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<8ef9bea6.0404180956.cd1a152@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <c5ultg$ss9$1@panix2.panix.com>

In article <8ef9bea6.0404180956.cd1a152 at posting.google.com>,
Hung Jung Lu <hungjunglu at yahoo.com> wrote:
>One more, I promise I'll stop.
>
>(i) For getting attributes by string names, for attributes of
>instances you do getattr(self, 'name'), for module attributes you do
>globals()['name']. I mention this because every once a month or so a
>newbie would ask how to get module level attributes by name.

That's not the only answer, and it's not the one I use:

    import foo
    getattr(foo, 'name')
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

"I used to have a .sig but I found it impossible to please everyone..."  --SFJ


From has.temp2 at virgin.net  Tue Apr 27 19:34:56 2004
From: has.temp2 at virgin.net (has)
Date: 27 Apr 2004 16:34:56 -0700
Subject: What is good about Prothon?
References: <bniq80hiib0gauiltuntk9jvia2getbnj4@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <69cbbef2.0404271534.6a7c90e6@posting.google.com>

David MacQuigg <dmq at gain.com> wrote in message news:<bniq80hiib0gauiltuntk9jvia2getbnj4 at 4ax.com>...

> Example of Simplified Classes ( Prototypes )
> ============================================

[SNIP]

Class-based OOP by any other name. But then, I've pointed this out
already. See Emperor, clothes; lack of.

Here; while I don't claim them to be paragons of programming, I
suggest taking a look at my old AppleScript libraries at
<http://applemods.sourceforge.net/>. (Note: scripts are compiled, so
you'll need a Mac to view source.) See Types, HTMLTemplate and ASTest
for examples of OO programming that isn't class-fixated. Might lend
some useful perspective.


From max at alcyone.com  Fri Apr  2 04:17:22 2004
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Fri, 02 Apr 2004 01:17:22 -0800
Subject: String concatenation
References: <wS8bc.4382$px6.64058@news2.e.nsc.no>
	<7xisgi24fm.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<Rz9bc.4514$zf6.60676@news4.e.nsc.no>
	<406D27A7.6550A00B@alcyone.com>
	<ZW9bc.4389$px6.64242@news2.e.nsc.no>
	<406D2CD5.878EBD4E@alcyone.com>
	<d9abc.4519$zf6.60744@news4.e.nsc.no>
Message-ID: <406D2FA2.6E5118CC@alcyone.com>

"Leif B. Kristensen" wrote:

> After entering Paul's two lines by hand, it suddenly works. You must
> be
> right about the cutting-and-pasting problem, though I don't understand
> why lifting text from KNode to KWrite shouldn't work.

Maybe it's grabbing tabs, or obscure unprintable whitespace you can't
see.  Certainly what you're pasting in to these posts is intended,
whether or not you did that manually.

-- 
 __ Erik Max Francis && max at alcyone.com && http://www.alcyone.com/max/
/  \ San Jose, CA, USA && 37 20 N 121 53 W && AIM erikmaxfrancis
\__/ It's soulful music. It doesn't necessarily sound like ... soul ...
    -- Sade Adu


From fumanchu at amor.org  Thu Apr  1 12:42:57 2004
From: fumanchu at amor.org (Robert Brewer)
Date: Thu, 1 Apr 2004 09:42:57 -0800
Subject: splitting one dictionary into two
Message-ID: <DE1CF2B4FEC4A342BF62B6B2B334601E561F99@opus.amorhq.net>

jsaul wrote:
> I think the most "pythonic" candidate is actually the version
> suggested by Larry, namely
> 
>     for key in dict1.keys():
>         if dict1[key] > 3:
>             dict2[key] = dict1.pop(key)

The problem with this one is that, if dict1 is also large, then using
dict1.keys() is going to be expensive.


FuManChu



From richie at entrian.com  Tue Apr 27 10:58:17 2004
From: richie at entrian.com (Richie Hindle)
Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2004 15:58:17 +0100
Subject: python under subversion (svn)
In-Reply-To: <xqxvfjlzgnl.fsf@cola2.ca.boeing.com>
References: <xqxvfjlzgnl.fsf@cola2.ca.boeing.com>
Message-ID: <tfss805khbvhtaf3vhekqphc7ur0chgfm8@4ax.com>


[Harry]
> I'm experimenting with svn.  [...]
> Should I be totally replicating the whole project under trunk and each
> branch, instead of trying to keep some items on the trunk?

Yes, I believe so.  The way to get to where you want to go is to import your
project onto the trunk, then create a branch by taking a copy of the entire
trunk project (which sounds expensive but isn't).

You also need to decide whether your trunk and branches will live at the top
level with the projects underneath them, or whether the projects will live
at the top level with the trunks and branches underneath them.  Because of
the way I'm traditionally accustomed to using CVS, I prefer to think of the
trunk and branches as top-level concepts with the projects living within
them.  Hence I'd do something like this:

After import:

trunk/
  myproject/
    doc/
    mypackage/
      stable.py
      changing.py
    test/
      go_test

After creating a branch:

trunk/
  myproject/
    doc/
    mypackage/
      stable.py
      changing.py
    test/
      go_test

branches/
  mybranch/
    myproject/
      doc/
      mypackage/
        stable.py
        changing.py
      test/
        go_test

-- 
Richie Hindle
richie at entrian.com




From Mike at DeleteThis.Geary.com  Tue Apr 27 13:55:33 2004
From: Mike at DeleteThis.Geary.com (Michael Geary)
Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2004 10:55:33 -0700
Subject: Could someone explain this to a newbie
References: <a%wjc.197$ph.161@fed1read07>
Message-ID: <108t7kp2j010kaa@corp.supernews.com>

Sean Berry wrote:
> >>> text = 'zone "southernpine.com" {'
> >>> text.lstrip("zone \"")
> 'southernpine.com" {'
>
> This is expected.
>
>
> >>> text = 'zone "newsouthpine.com" {'
> >>> text.lstrip("zone \"")
> 'wsouthpine.com" {'
>
> This is not.
>
> What happened to the ne...
>
> I suppose that is the secret, because I have
> tried with other words beginning with ne and
> they do not work either.

Sean, try this:

>>> text = 'abcabcaabbccaaabbbcccxyz'
>>> text.lstrip('abc')
'xyz'
>>>

Do you see what lstrip() really does now?

Your confusion is understandable. The documentation for lstrip() is very
poor--it does not make it at all clear what the function does. The argument
to lstrip() isn't a string that the function strips off, it is a *set of
characters* (expressed as a string) to strip off.

-Mike




From hwlgw at hotmail.com  Fri Apr 16 08:42:50 2004
From: hwlgw at hotmail.com (Will Stuyvesant)
Date: 16 Apr 2004 05:42:50 -0700
Subject: Aspect Programming Module
References: <84fc4588.0404140106.3fa0c55@posting.google.com>
	<slrnc7q1ss.1aa.alf@largo.fayauffre.org>
	<cb035744.0404141130.170f51c4@posting.google.com>
	<slrnc7sgat.vp.alf@largo.fayauffre.org>
Message-ID: <cb035744.0404160442.2f0b1661@posting.google.com>

I apologize for the earlier post, written in a bad mood.

I recently had to listen to a scientific talk about AOP and I did 
not like the talk...

It seems to me there are *numerous* ways to do AOP in Python.

Years ago (1997?) GvR mentioned using __getattr__() to trap method
calls, and since then also metaclasses have been added to do things
like adding logging capabilities.

A thread from 2003 with Alex Martelli: http://tinyurl.com/2o267
is even specifically about logging.

I am not an expert on this style of programming.  Perhaps you are
right that an aop or mixin or ... module could be useful in Python.
Show use cases?  For example:

The following code:

    class MyLogger:
        def log(self): pass
    class MyClass: pass

    addMe(MyClass, MyLogger.log)

would result in MyLogger.log being called after each call to a
method of MyClass?   And then you need others that add things
*before* method calls.  Etc. etc.  What are good usage examples?

underscore-programming-indicates-early-design-errors-ly y'rs  - will


From joe at notcharles.ca  Sun Apr 18 19:31:50 2004
From: joe at notcharles.ca (Joe Mason)
Date: Sun, 18 Apr 2004 23:31:50 GMT
Subject: AOP use cases
References: <84fc4588.0404140106.3fa0c55@posting.google.com>
	<slrnc7q1ss.1aa.alf@largo.fayauffre.org>
	<cb035744.0404141130.170f51c4@posting.google.com>
	<slrnc7sgat.vp.alf@largo.fayauffre.org>
	<cb035744.0404160442.2f0b1661@posting.google.com>
	<0pydnSB4WYuieuLdRVn-hQ@powergate.ca>
	<1082n594lndh27f@news.supernews.com>
	<c5umdd$5p4fj$1@ID-139865.news.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <slrnc863u1.l0t.joe@gate.notcharles.ca>

In article <c5umdd$5p4fj$1 at ID-139865.news.uni-berlin.de>, Dave Kuhlman wrote:
> John Roth wrote:
> 
>> "Peter Hansen" <peter at engcorp.com> wrote in message
>> news:0pydnSB4WYuieuLdRVn-hQ at powergate.ca...
>>> Will Stuyvesant wrote:
>>>
>>> > What are good usage examples?
>>>
> 
> [snip]
> 
>> 
>> I suspect you're not going to get any really compelling ones.
> 
> Isn't AOP antithetical to the Pythonic admonition to make
> everything explicit?
> 
>     "Explicit is better than implicit."
>         -- The Zen of Python (by Tim Peters)
> 
> You can stare at a section of AOP code as intently as you like,
> and never discover the changes that are woven into it.

You know, it strikes me that PEP318's decorators could be a nice way to
weave an aspect into a method explicitly, with a tag on the method,
rather than implicitly, with a list of weaves somewhere else in the
program.

Joe


From maheshpop1 at yahoo.com  Tue Apr 27 04:36:35 2004
From: maheshpop1 at yahoo.com (mahesh)
Date: 27 Apr 2004 01:36:35 -0700
Subject: Basic Class + Dialogs doubt
Message-ID: <eeeb8bb9.0404270036.ea3a69d@posting.google.com>

Hi all,

I have a doubt with OOAD and Dialogs. I have a Dialog Class.
tkSimple.py
It contains a class body as below. Now I am calling the tkSimple.py in
another python program and using the default body, and everything from
tkSimple.py.

Now my requirement is as follows I need to popup a couple of other
dialog boxes with a little difference in between each dialog and take
different values.

Summarising as below

Main window ----> tkSimple.py
Main window--ButtonClick ---> New dialog 1
Main window--Button 2 Click---> Another New Dialog 2.

Now I am wondering how I can put three different types of dialogs in
the same tksimple.py and call them at different conditions in my main
class

I am including the code here. Right now I have created multiple copies
of the tkSimple.py like tkSimple1.py tkSimple2.py and importing them
whereever I need them

regards,
Mahesh

Main Program
---------------

from Tkinter import *
from tkSimpleDialog import Dialog
import tkMessageBox
import tkSimple


class SampleDialog(tkSimple.Dialog):
.....................
..................
.................
    def body(self, master):
        self.title("Tool ")
        self.geometry("400x500")
        # All the constant values goes here.
        # Labels
        Label(master, text='BSS ATTRIB TOOL').grid(row=1, sticky=W)
        Label(master, text='              ').grid(row=2, sticky=W)
        Label(master, text='              ').grid(row=3, sticky=W)
        Label(master, text='              ').grid(row=4, sticky=W)
        Label(master, text='BSS Name').grid(row=5, sticky=W)
        Label(master, text='MIT VErsion').grid(row=6, sticky=W)
        #Choosing the device type belonging to which class goes here.
        v = IntVar()
        global CnType
        CnType = IntVar()
        Label(master, text='').grid(row=7, sticky=W)
        Label(master, text='').grid(row=8, sticky=W)
        Label(master, text='Select a button below to add a
device').grid(row=9,
sticky=W)
        optTp = Button(master, text ="Click here to add a Class A
device", comma
nd=self.ShowA).grid(row=10, column=0,  sticky=W)
@

    def apply(self):
        Name1 = self.bssName.get()
        Name2  = self.mitName.get()
        global CnType
        global deviceClass
        deviceClass = CnType.get()
        print deviceClass

        #Boby's Code to place the above values in the file    pass
    def ShowA(self):
         global DialogType
         DialogType = 2

         getValue = tkSimple1.Dialog(self)
      
-------------..............end of main program

TkSimple.py Code
-----------------------------

from Tkinter import *
import os

class Dialog(Toplevel):
  
       def __init__(self, parent, title = None):

          Toplevel.__init__(self, parent)
          self.transient(parent)

          if title:
             self.title(title)

          self.parent = parent

          self.result = None

          body = Frame(self)

          self.initial_focus = self.body(body)
          body.pack(padx=5, pady=5)

          self.buttonbox()
    self.protocol("WM_DELETE_WINDOW", self.cancel)
          self.geometry("+%d+%d" % (parent.winfo_rootx()+50,
parent.winfo_rooty(
)+50))
          self.initial_focus.focus_set()

          self.wait_window(self)


# construction hooks

       def body(self, master):
          # create dialog body. return widget that should have intial
focus.
         pass

       def buttonbox(self):
         box = Frame(self)
         w = Button(box, text="Save", width=10, command=self.ok,
default=ACTIVE)
         w.pack(side=LEFT, padx=5, pady=5)

         #Need to change the command here .<Mahesh>

         w = Button(box, text="Run Tool", width=10, command=self.ok)
  w = Button(box, text="Run Tool", width=10, command=self.ok)
         w.pack(side=LEFT, padx=5, pady=5)

         #w = Button(box, text="Help", width=10, command=self.help)
         #w.pack(side=LEFT, padx=5, pady=5)

         w = Button(box, text="Cancel", width=10, command=self.cancel)
         w.pack(side=LEFT, padx=5, pady=5)

         self.bind("&lt;Return.", self.ok)
         self.bind("&lt:Escape.", self.cancel)

         box.pack()


       def ok(self, event=None):

          if not self.validate():
                 self.initial_focus.focus_set()
                 return

          self.withdraw()      
          self.update_idletasks()
          self.apply()
          self.cancel()


       def cancel(self, event=None):
          self.parent.focus_set()
          self.destroy()

       def validate(self):
          return 1

       def apply(self):
           pass


From bac at OCF.Berkeley.EDU  Sat Apr 17 23:29:08 2004
From: bac at OCF.Berkeley.EDU (Brett C.)
Date: Sat, 17 Apr 2004 20:29:08 -0700
Subject: python-dev Summary for 2004-03-16 through 2004-03-31
Message-ID: <4081F604.1080602@ocf.berkeley.edu>

python-dev Summary for 2004-03-16 through 2004-03-31
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
This is a summary of traffic on the `python-dev mailing list`_ from 
March 16, 2004 through March 31, 2004.  It is intended to inform the 
wider Python community of on-going developments on the list.  To comment 
on anything mentioned here, just post to `comp.lang.python`_ (or email 
python-list at python.org which is a gateway to the newsgroup) with a 
subject line mentioning what you are discussing. All python-dev members 
are interested in seeing ideas discussed by the community, so don't 
hesitate to take a stance on something.  And if all of this really 
interests you then get involved and join `python-dev`_!

This is the thirty-eighth summary written by Brett Cannon (who managed to
actually convince someone to employ him for the summer).

To contact me, please send email to brett at python.org ; I do not have 
the time to keep up on comp.lang.python and thus do not always catch 
follow-ups posted there.

All summaries are archived at http://www.python.org/dev/summary/ .

Please note that this summary is written using reStructuredText_ which 
can be found at http://docutils.sf.net/rst.html .  Any unfamiliar 
punctuation is probably markup for reST_ (otherwise it is probably 
regular expression syntax or a typo =); you can safely ignore it, 
although I suggest learning reST; it's simple and is accepted for `PEP 
markup`_ and gives some perks for the HTML output.  Also, because of the 
wonders of programs that like to reformat text, I cannot guarantee you 
will be able to run the text version of this summary through Docutils_ 
as-is unless it is from the `original text file`_.

.. _PEP Markup: http://www.python.org/peps/pep-0012.html

The in-development version of the documentation for Python can be found at
http://www.python.org/dev/doc/devel/ and should be used when looking up any
documentation on new code; otherwise use the current documentation as 
found at
http://docs.python.org/ .  PEPs (Python Enhancement Proposals) are 
located at http://www.python.org/peps/ .  To view files in the Python 
CVS online, go to http://cvs.sourceforge.net/cgi-bin/viewcvs.cgi/python/ 
.  Reported bugs and suggested patches can be found at the SourceForge_ 
project page.

The `Python Software Foundation`_ is the non-profit organization that 
holds the intellectual property for Python.  It also tries to forward 
the development and use of Python.  But the PSF_ cannot do this without 
donations.  You can make a donation at 
http://python.org/psf/donations.html .  Every penny helps so even a 
small donation (you can donate through PayPal or by check) helps.

.. _python-dev: http://www.python.org/dev/
.. _SourceForge: http://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=5470
.. _python-dev mailing list: 
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev
.. _comp.lang.python: http://groups.google.com/groups?q=comp.lang.python
.. _Docutils: http://docutils.sf.net/
.. _reST:
.. _reStructuredText: http://docutils.sf.net/rst.html
.. _PSF:
.. _Python Software Foundation: http://python.org/psf/

.. contents::

.. _last summary: 
http://www.python.org/dev/summary/2004-03-16_2004-03-31.html
.. _original text file: 
http://www.python.org/dev/summary/2004-03-16_2004-03-31.ht



=====================
Summary Announcements
=====================
Well, I am no longer looking for a summer job!  One of my professors was
gracious enough to offer me a research position with him for the summer 
working
on Internet2 stuff so the summer job request is now gone... until next 
summer.
=)

PyCon_ happened during the timespan this summary covers.  Unlike last 
year when emails to python-dev actually went down, there was a good 
amount of traffic at the conference.  A good portion of this was due to 
the sprint on Python's core that took place.  A bunch of core developers 
showed up for the whole weekend and used part of that time to answer 
emails.  Great for python-dev but made my life a little difficult.  =) 
But the sprint overall was a definite gain with various tweaks done, 
improvements to the profiler, and a bunch of bugs and patches closed 
(actually had the number of open patches and bugs have a net loss of 7 
and 10 from that week, respectively; that has not happened in a while).

The release schedule (and thus what is definitely planned and what can 
go in if it gets finished in time) was set while at PyCon.  Read the 
summary entitled `Python 2.4 release schedule`_ below for details and links.

.. _PyCon: http://www.pycon.org/

=========
Summaries
=========
----------------------------
"I want to be like Raymond!"
----------------------------
So, you want to speed up Python like Raymond Hettinger has?  Well, he 
posted an email listing various optimizations he has on his list to try 
out.  That specific email can be found at 
http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2004-March/043276.html

This also brought back the debate of whether pure Python modules should 
be recoded in C for performance.  See previous threads for a longer 
discussion on the subject.

Contributing threads:
   - `Joys of Optimization 
<http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2004-March/043276.html>`__
   - `todo (was: Joys of Optimization) 
<http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2004-March/043335.html>`__


--------------
Decimal update
--------------
`PEP 327`_ was revised to make certain issues more explicit and to 
discuss possible function naming (summarized below).  This lead to a 
discussion about how to name various things.  Although there are 
historical violations of the coding standard, the names should follow 
`PEP 7`_ and `PEP 8`_.

The testing suite is also finished along with the PEP essentially being 
finished.

.. _PEP 327: http://www.python.org/peps/pep-0327.html


Contributing threads:
   - `Changes to PEP 327: Decimal data type 
<http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2004-March/043155.html>`__
   - `PEP 327: Decimal data type 
<http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2004-March/043809.html>`__


--------------------------------------------------------------------------
<in a stereotypical coach voice>Follow the coding standard, people</voice>
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Discussing naming conventions came up while discussing PEP 327.  The 
basic conclusion is that older modules don't follow the coding standards 
laid out in `PEP 7`_ and `PEP 8`_, but that does not mean new code 
should be allowed to break the rules.

.. _PEP 7: http://www.python.org/peps/pep-0007.html
.. _PEP 8: http://www.python.org/peps/pep-0008.html

Contributing threads:
   - `Changes to PEP 327: Decimal data type 
<http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2004-March/043155.html>`__
   - `(class) module names clarification 
<http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2004-March/043265.html>`__
   - `(old) module names 
<http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2004-March/043286.html>`__


----------------------------------------------------
"It depends on what the meaning of the word 'is' is"
----------------------------------------------------
The idea of redefining how 'is' operates when comparing immutable types 
came up.  It was suggested that when two immutable objects of the same 
type were being compared that it should be an equivalence test instead 
of an identity test.  For instance::

   >>> x = 99
   >>> y = 99
   >>> x is y
   True

while::

   >>> x = 100
   >>> y = 100
   >>> x is y
   False

is false.  The point was made, though, that unless you are comparing to 
None that 'is' should not be used for comparing immutables and instead 
the equality operator ('==') should be used instead.  There is 
backwards-compatibility issues with changing this.

Guido pronounced that 'is' ain't changing.

Contributing threads:
   - `A proposal has surfaced on comp.lang.python to redefine "is" 
<http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2004-March/043181.html>`__
   - `redefining is 
<http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2004-March/043222.html>`__
   - `(not) redefining is 
<http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2004-March/043285.html>`__


---------------------------------
Getting PyChecker into the stdlib
---------------------------------
The idea of adding PyChecker_ to the stdlib came up once again.  Support 
seems to be there but the developers of PyChecker did not speak up. 
PyChecker 2 is under development and that changes how PyChecker does 
things significantly (analyzes bytecode directly) which might be why 
they were mum on the topic.

.. _PyChecker: http://pychecker.sf.net/


-------------------------------
Simplifying logging.basicConfig
-------------------------------
Simplifying basicConfig in the logging package to making logging to a 
file simpler was proposed.  One person suggested more examples in the 
documentation ala unittest.  Another person disagreed.

No change has been made at this point nor any specific statement as to 
whether any will be.

Contributing threads:
   - `Some changes to logging 
<http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2004-March/043290.html>`__


--------------------------
A new committer amongst us
--------------------------
Phillip J. Eby gained CVS commit privileges to help with development of 
Distutils.  But Phillip has been active on python-dev for a while so I 
am sure he can be put to work on some other things as well.  =)

Contributing threads:
   - `new Python CVS committer 
<http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2004-March/043338.html>`__


----------------
Working on HP-UX
----------------
Cameron Laird is still interested in working on the port of Python on 
HP-UX.  If you are interested in helping out please contact him.

Contributing threads:
   - `Portability:  update and oblique apology 
<http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2004-March/043364.html>`__


-------------------------------------------
Binding variables for generator expressions
-------------------------------------------
What would you expect in this situation using generator expressions?::

   gen_exps = []
   for cnt in range(10):
     gen_exps.append(x**2 for x in range(cnt))

If you thought that gen_exps would contain 10 generators that each 
return a list longer than the one previous then you like capture binding 
for generator expressions (capturing the values of all free variables 
used in the generator expression at definition time).  If you though 
there would be 10 generators that all had the power of 2 from 0 to 9 
then you like late binding (using the value of the free variables in the 
generator expression at execution time of the generator).

Guido brought this up in his keynote for PyCon_ and said that he 
preferred late binding.  The reasoning is that there are no surprises in 
terms of corner cases and having more obvious values for the free variables.

The point about performance of generator expressions was also brought up 
using the now-standard ``sum(x**2 for range(1000))`` example.  Using a 
list comprehension was actually slightly faster (less than 10%) then the 
generator expression.  This is partially thanks to Raymond's tweaking of 
list comprehensions by adding the LIST_APPEND opcode.  The rest is due 
to generator expressions creating an actual generator and thus having to 
create eval frames and playing with them.  But it was pointed out that 
if the number passed into 'range' is raised then generator expressions 
quickly end up winning because the execution fits in the cache better, 
especially if xrange is used.

Contributing threads:
   - `An issue recently brought up in patch #872326 
<http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2004-March/043396.html>`__
   - `Possible resolution of generator expression variable... 
<http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2004-March/043443.html>`__
   - `genexps slow? 
<http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2004-March/043777.html>`__


--------------------------------------------------
More than you ever wanted to know about decorators
--------------------------------------------------
Decorators were the topic for the latter half of March.  Initially the 
discussion focused on where to put the list of decorators (if Guido's 
patch as found at http://www.python.org/sf/926860 is any indication he 
has a preference with the decorators coming on the line above the 
function/method definition) should go.  With C# having a similar 
functionality as what is being proposed roughly following C#'s syntax 
was considered a good thing, albeit tweaked so that the decorator list 
goes on its own line (reason being the LL(1) parser is too dumb to 
handle it coming before the 'def' on the same line and it alleviates the 
issue of having a long decorator list that would a full line anyway.

With the winning syntax, though, there is the issue of preexisting code 
and the work at interpreter prompt.  The former is a problem for code 
that happens to have a list that is not assigned to anything before a 
function definition; why anyone would have a list defined that is not 
assigned is beyond me.  As for the latter issue, that is a slight 
problem.  To get around it you can stick the definition in an 'if' 
statement::

   if True:
       [decorate, this]
       def marthastewart(): pass

Slight pain, but it has been generally accepted that placing decorators 
on their own line is just so much easier to deal with aesthetically this 
minor inconvenience has been viewed as acceptable.

After PyCon Guido talked to some people who suggested having another way 
of tacking on metadata separate from using descriptors, partially since 
C#'s version of decorators is mostly for metadata.  But tacking on 
attributes to a function can be done using the proposed decorators by 
defining some auxiliary function that takes in named arguments that 
specify the name of the attribute and the value to set it and returns a 
callable that will take in a function and assign the attributes.

This also brought up the discussion of setting function attributes from 
within a function since decorators will most likely be used to set 
metadata.  The idea of having attributes set for the function if a name 
starts with '.' was brought up but Guido said he wanted to save that 
syntax for within a 'with' block.  The other suggestion was to do 
``func.attribute`` where "func" is the name of the function is being 
defined, but Guido gave that a -1000 vote so that ain't about to happen.

Contributing threads:
   - `order of decorator application? 
<http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2004-March/043411.html>`__
   - `PEP 318 - posting draft 
<http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2004-March/043414.html>`__
   - `PEP 318 
<http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2004-March/043425.html>`__
   - `method decorators (PEP 318) 
<http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2004-March/043528.html>`__
   - `PEP 318 and syntax coloring 
<http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2004-March/043643.html>`__
   - `decorators (not transformations) 
<http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2004-March/043540.html>`__
   - `PEP318 metaclass approach 
<http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2004-March/043589.html>`__
   - `method decorators 
<http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2004-March/043613.html>`__
   - `Yet Another Decorator Syntax Suggestion  (YADSS) 
<http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2004-March/043640.html>`__
   - `PEP 318: Singleton decorator 
<http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2004-March/043682.html>`__
   - `PEP 318: Preserve function signatures 
<http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2004-March/043683.html>`__
   - `PEP 318: Security use case 
<http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2004-March/043684.html>`__
   - `PEP 318: Decorators last before colon 
<http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2004-March/043685.html>`__
   - `PEP 318: Set attribs with .name = value 
<http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2004-March/043686.html>`__
   - `Re: Python-Dev Digest, Vol 8, Issue 91 
<http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2004-March/043698.html>`__


---------------------------
Python 2.4 release schedule
---------------------------
If you read `PEP 320`_ you will notice an alpha is currently planned in 
July with a possible release in September if the alphas and betas go well.

To see what is planned for this release read the PEP.  Looks like some 
really cool new additions to Python (under the hood, stdlib, and to 
syntax) might make this release.

.. _PEP 320: http://python.org/peps/pep-0320.html

Contributing threads:
   - `Timing for Py2.4 
<http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2004-March/043681.html>`__


------------------------------------------
Cutting down on string creation at startup
------------------------------------------
Martin v. Loewis discovered that Python in CVS created about 12,000 
strings while Python 2.2 created 8,000 strings.  Martin subsequently 
changed 'marshal' so as to share strings that are the same instead of 
having to constantly create strings, discover they have been interned, 
and then destroy the second copy.

Contributing threads:
   - `Python startup time: String objects 
<http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2004-March/043475.html>`__


----------------------------------
f_tstate going the way of the dodo
----------------------------------
In case you don't catch the meaning of the title, f_tstate is going to 
be removed.

Contributing threads:
   - `Last chance! 
<http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2004-March/043594.html>`__


---------------------------------------------------------------
Tentative fix for OpenVMS and its dislike of UNIVERSAL_NEWLINES
---------------------------------------------------------------
See http://www.python.org/sf/903339 for the proposed patch.

Contributing threads:
   - ` OpenVMS file system and UNIVERSAL_NEWLINES 
<http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2004-March/043660.html>`__


----------------------------------------------
The hell that is floating point representation
----------------------------------------------
The discussion came up over the output of ``repr(1.1)``, which is 
'1.1000000000000001' (although, apparently, a few years back this was 
not the case).  The objection was risen that this can surprise people 
since repr is what 'marshal' uses for writing .pyc files.  But the 
counter-argument was that this forces people to deal with the issues 
inherent in binary floating point.  Plus it makes the value consistent 
across platforms if you pass around a .pyc file since the value the 
programmer used is explicitly stated.  The status quo is staying put.

It was also pointed out that decimal floating point has similar issues 
as binary floating point, but at least you get to specify the accuracy 
at the cost of speed.

Contributing threads:
   - `Expert floats 
<http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2004-March/043703.html>`__
   - `repr(1.1) 
<http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2004-March/043726.html>`__


----------------------------------------
Relative imports getting a bunch of dots
----------------------------------------
For `PEP 328`_ (which deals with relative imports of modules), Guido 
pronounced that he prefers the multiple dots to delineate going up a 
level in the directory hierarchy for handling relative imports.

The other big issue with this PEP is backwards-compatibility.  Since 
this will introduce relative paths, by default all imports that don't 
have at least a leading dot for where something is being imported will 
be considered absolute.  This means that if you want to import something 
in the same directory as the module you are importing into you will have 
to specify that it is a relative import unless your current directory is 
in sys.path .  The PEP explains the issues rather well.

.. _PEP 328: htttp://www.python.org/peps/pep-0328.html

Contributing threads:
   - `PEP 328 -- relative and multi-line import 
<http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2004-March/043739.html>`__



From newsgroups at jhrothjr.com  Fri Apr  9 18:54:09 2004
From: newsgroups at jhrothjr.com (John Roth)
Date: Fri, 9 Apr 2004 18:54:09 -0400
Subject: automatically generating file dependency information from
	python tools
References: <bhFdc.50011$bE2.25447@newssvr25.news.prodigy.com>
Message-ID: <107eag4pnl2ar35@news.supernews.com>


"Moosebumps" <moosebumps at moosebumps.com> wrote in message
news:bhFdc.50011$bE2.25447 at newssvr25.news.prodigy.com...
> Say you have a group of 20 programmers, and they're all writing python
> scripts that are simple data crunchers -- i.e. command line tools that
read
> from one or more files and output one or more files.
>
> I want to set up some sort of system that would automatically generate
> makefile type information from the source code of these tools.  Can anyone
> think of a good way of doing it?  You could make everyone call a special
> function that wraps the file() and detects whether they are opening the
file
> for read or write.  If read, it's an input, if write, it's an output file
> (assume there is no r/w access).  Then I guess your special function would
> output the info in some sort of repository, which collects such info from
> all the individual data crunchers.
>
> The other thing I could think of is statically analyzing the source
code -- 
> but what if the filenames are generated dynamically?  I'd be interested in
> any ideas or links on this, I just started thinking about it today.  For
> some reason it seems to be a sort of problem to solve with metaclasses -- 
> but I haven't thought of exactly how.

I'm not entirely clear on what the purpose of this is. I normally
think of "makefile" type information as something needed to compile
a program. This is something that isn't usually needed for Python
unless you're dealing with C extensions. Then I'd suggest looking at
SCons (www.scons.org).

What I'm getting is that you want to tie the individual programs
to the files that they're processing. In other words, build a catalog
of "if you have this kind of file, these are the availible programs that
will process it."

So the basic question is: are the files coming in from the command
line or are they built in? If the latter, I'd probably start out by pulling
strings that have a "." or a "/" or a "\" in them, and examining the
context. Or look at calls to modules from the os.path library.

More than likely you'll find a number of patterns that can be
processed and that will deal with the majority of programs. The
thing is, if you've got a bunch of programmers doing that kind
of work, they've probably fallen into habitual ways of coding
the repetitive stuff.

HTH

John Roth


>
> thanks,
> MB
>
>




From eldiener at earthlink.net  Sun Apr  4 09:57:23 2004
From: eldiener at earthlink.net (Edward Diener)
Date: Sun, 04 Apr 2004 13:57:23 GMT
Subject: Difference between default arguments and keyword arguments
References: <UmTbc.9904$NL4.4809@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net>
	<406FFEAF.3080400@netscape.net>
Message-ID: <7vUbc.11592$yN6.3751@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net>

DoubleM wrote:
> Edward Diener wrote:
>> In the tutorial on functions there are sections on default arguments
>> and keyword arguments, yet I don't see the syntactic difference
>> between them. For default arguments the tutorial shows:
>>
>> def ask_ok(prompt, retries=4, complaint='Yes or no, please!'):
>>
>> while for keyword arguments the tutorial shows:
>>
>> def parrot(voltage, state='a stiff', action='voom', type='Norwegian
>> Blue'):
>>
>> The syntax 'keyword = value' is used for both as far as I can see.
>> How does one distinguish between them or are they both part of the
>> same combined concept, which is: if one calls the function with less
>> than the required number of arguments but does specify keyword
>> values, those values are used, else the defaults are supplied. Or is
>> there really a syntactic difference between default arguments and
>> keyword arguments which I have missed above ?
>>
>>
> All arguments are keyword arguments.  They may or may not have a
> default value.  In your example, voltage is a keyword argument, but
> it has no default.
>
> Consider the following:
>  >>> def fn(a,b):
> print 'a = ',a
> print 'b = ',b
>
>
>  >>> fn(b=1,a=2)
> a =  2
> b =  1
>  >>> fn(1,2)
> a =  1
> b =  2

Makes sense. Thanks ! The tutorial should explain it more clearly.




From milliweasel at neomeo.com  Sat Apr 24 18:42:40 2004
From: milliweasel at neomeo.com (milliweasel at neomeo.com)
Date: Sat, 24 Apr 2004 15:42:40 -0700
Subject: Heuser
Message-ID: <0hqe6c.3np.ln@pravda.loafer.org>

Not SENSUOUS ... only "FROLICSOME" ... and in need of DENTAL WORK ...
in PAIN!!!




From colin.blackburn at durham.ac.uk  Mon Apr  5 10:58:33 2004
From: colin.blackburn at durham.ac.uk (Colin Blackburn)
Date: Mon, 05 Apr 2004 15:58:33 +0100
Subject: slightly OT: BUT NEEDs to be said
References: <4078daf265c69e9353e8af72542da703@dizum.com>
Message-ID: <opr5znvvhiyxrafp@nntphost.dur.ac.uk>

On Mon,  5 Apr 2004 16:50:04 +0200 (CEST), Nomen Nescio <nobody at dizum.com>  
wrote:

[...]
> Let me put it this way Python as a languge and product is *damaged* by  
> the
> references littered everywhere to MPFC. It colours the experience of it  
> and
> when I think what scripting language shall I use to get x task done I  
> think
> Python could do that and then oh no I'm not paying homage to the ghastly  
> awful
> MPFC shit which I hate and will use Perl or PHP instead which are  
> considerably
> more artistically 'neutral'
[...]

Do you have a problem with your news posting software? This post arrived  
four days late at my server.

Colin
--


From newsgroups at jhrothjr.com  Mon Apr 19 08:42:31 2004
From: newsgroups at jhrothjr.com (John Roth)
Date: Mon, 19 Apr 2004 08:42:31 -0400
Subject: AOP use cases
References: <84fc4588.0404140106.3fa0c55@posting.google.com>
	<slrnc7q1ss.1aa.alf@largo.fayauffre.org>
	<cb035744.0404141130.170f51c4@posting.google.com>
	<slrnc7sgat.vp.alf@largo.fayauffre.org>
	<cb035744.0404160442.2f0b1661@posting.google.com>
	<0pydnSB4WYuieuLdRVn-hQ@powergate.ca>
	<1082n594lndh27f@news.supernews.com> <87pta6qnw4.fsf@pobox.com>
	<1083nja30c9s2a4@news.supernews.com>
	<c5ul9s$rpf$1@news.eusc.inter.net>
Message-ID: <1087i9rgum1g2cb@news.supernews.com>


"Daniel Dittmar" <daniel at dittmar.net> wrote in message
news:c5ul9s$rpf$1 at news.eusc.inter.net...
> John Roth wrote:
> >>>When you're supporting a monolithic proprietary application,
> >>>sometimes you have to do what you have to do, but today
> >>>the entire idea simply smells of a high-tech way to do
> >>>ad-hoc patching where a really well designed application
> >>>would not need it (and I don't really care if the design is
> >>>up front or emergent.)
>
> AOP is not about patching existing programs/libraries. This is just the
> way it is usually implemented in Java.

> Other approaches used for languages like C++ use code generation. Code
> generation isn't as nifty and doesn't work as well for Java as Java
> hasn't got a #line directive to guide the debugger. But it's You Can See
> What You Get.

Code generation is an interesting beast. Code generation where I
never have to look at the generated code for normal development
is something I appreciate. Code generation where I have to maintain
my own code around the generated code is an abomination. Since
I don't know how the tools work in C++, I can't comment on which
approach it takes.

> AOP grew out of the observation that an evergrowing percentage of the
> code of the average method is taken over by parts that are not related
> to the main purpose of the method, but by logging, sychronization,
> transaction handling and other stuff.

Bad design is bad design. Having methods with more
than one responsibility is poor cohesion and high coupling.
Spending a bit of time thinking about how to encapsulate
this type of crud will pay big dividends. Unfortunately, it
won't get academic publication credits.

> This kind of code is often of the boilerplate kind, which lends itself
> easily to code generation. And it requires often some context
> information, which must then be passed either through parameters or
> through objects, adding to the line noise that distracts from the 'real
> code' of the method.

Duplicated code is duplicated code, and should be ruthlessly
eliminated wherever found. It doesn't matter whether it's
generated by some tool or inserted by the developer.

> And the 'we do this through refactoring' argument ends where you use
> external libraries unless you want to fork them.

Now you're contradicting yourself. First you say that it's not
about patching to get around stupid libraries, now you say it
is about patching to get around stupid libraries.

John Roth
>
> Daniel Dittmar




From michael at foord.net  Tue Apr 13 03:29:46 2004
From: michael at foord.net (Fuzzyman)
Date: 13 Apr 2004 00:29:46 -0700
Subject: Wrapper round x86 Assembler
References: <8089854e.0404082353.7bf163a2@posting.google.com>
	<4dKdnQlIXMIXIevdRVn-gg@powergate.ca>
	<8089854e.0404100204.504186a0@posting.google.com>
	<kcWdnaFpw_PvdurdRVn-sA@powergate.ca>
Message-ID: <8089854e.0404122329.5dfe5ce1@posting.google.com>

[snip..]

> 
> > Because the result is compiled, and  a step in the compile chain is
> > assembly, you could include inline assembly in the same way that you
> > could with C ??
> 
> Having assembly as one step in the compile chain is a somewhat
> dated concept.  Many compilers go directly to object code.
> 
Right ? I got confused by the mention that they could handle inline
assembler.... so many of the compilers include an assembler as well...
purely for 'inline assembly'.... ??

> > Never having done any C programming that stretches the limit of my
> > knowledge.
> 
> Or exceeds it. <wink>
> 
*ahem* - well yeah.
I've never coded in C, but I've done some assembly language
programming for the Amiga (the 68000 series processor - great to
program). I had to learn  a little bit about C because I had to build
C structures to pass to the operating system which was written in C
(well, written in B first, and then recoded in C ). That was all a
while ago though.

> > *However* it's not quite what I had in mind. What I'd like to be able
> > to do is to access machine code subroutines from within normal python.
> 
> Ah, you didn't say that.  You were asking about performance,
> and certainly in any place where resorting to assembly would
> give you that, you should be able to get it from Pyrex as well.
> 

No... but I said something similar ;-)

> Pyrex might also let you interface with "machine code subroutines",
> however, provided they support the standard C calling conventions
> (with respect to passing args, saving registers and such).
> 

Right - if I was to pursue this I would certainly need to use
something to build a wrapper interface.

> My main reason for pushing Pyrex as opposed to discussing
> options for assembly programming is that there's very little
> reason for people to be doing assembly in the world these days.
> C is higher level yet with an optimizing compiler allows better
> performance in all but a few rare cases (meaning a few rare
> problem domains and a few rare individuals).
> 

However, I was *hoping* for a more dynamic solution than the 'compiler
chain' one.

I recently did some coding that involved classic 'bit-twiddling' (for
want of a better expression). One textbook I found showed a similar
example and said 'this is a good example of code that would be much
better written in assembly'.

My past experience of assembly was using an operating system that
handled multitasking 'behind the scenes' (pre-emptive multitasking) -
so there was no performance hit on the rest of your system from
writing crappy assembly - and the internal architecture of the
processor was useful enough to make coding fun.....

> Assembly is also the most platform-specific thing going, whereas
> C is "quite" portable in comparison, whether we're talking about
> the code itself or the technical knowledge of the programmer.
> 
> If you have specific code that exists and does not follow C
> calling conventions, then if Pyrex won't let you call it (and
> I'm guessing it won't) you could still whip up a C extension
> that would, using some inline assembly there.  Or if you're
> good enough at assembly to prefer it to C, you could probably
> just write a Python extension in assembly directly. :-)
> 
> -Peter

Hmmm..... oh well. Maybe my idea of dynamically assembled 'assembly
subroutines' for high speed number crunching is a pipe-dream. It
seemed like a good idea.

It does occur to me that for a certain subset of a 'pseudo assembly
language' a 'cross-platform assembler' could work (dynamically
assemble directly to machine code - easy enough to build binaries per
platform) and include the alogrithms mentioned by the other
posters.... :-) Nice idea - well beyond me though. It's easy enough to
have ideas that other people ought to do.

Regards,

Fuzzy

http://www.voidspace.org.uk/atlantibots/pythonutils.html


From bram at nospam.sara.nl  Wed Apr  7 05:44:07 2004
From: bram at nospam.sara.nl (Bram Stolk)
Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2004 11:44:07 +0200
Subject: min() with custom compare.
Message-ID: <20040407114407.0a07d143@pistache.sara.nl>

Hi there,


If you have a list of elements, you can sort it with an alternative
comparator (default is __lt__())

This is done as:

>>> l=[5,-4,1,9,-9]
>>> l.sort()
>>> l
[-9, -4, 1, 5, 9]
>>> l.sort(lambda x,y: abs(x)-abs(y))
>>> l
[1, -4, 5, -9, 9]

Lovely stuff, is it not?

Now my question:
What if I need only a max, or min value, and not a complete sort,
but I do want to have a custom compare func.
What could I do?

min() and max() built-ins cannot take a compare func.

Thanks,

   Bram

-- 
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 Bram Stolk, VR Engineer.
 SARA Academic Computing Services Amsterdam, PO Box 94613, 1090 GP  AMSTERDAM
 email: bram at nospam.sara.nl   Phone +31-20-5923059  Fax +31-20-6683167

"For the costs of subsidized agriculture in the EU, we can have all 56 million
 European cows fly around the world. First Class." - J. Norberg
------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From markus_wankusGETRIDOFALLCAPS at hotmail.com  Thu Apr  1 08:31:34 2004
From: markus_wankusGETRIDOFALLCAPS at hotmail.com (Markus Wankus)
Date: Thu, 01 Apr 2004 08:31:34 -0500
Subject: [OT] Top posting is a PITA [was : Prothon Prototypes vs Python
 Classes]
In-Reply-To: <tyfr7v814ah.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
References: <569c605ld1cj8fc1emolk08ete0s1prls1@4ax.com>
	<v0r9c.38988$cx5.22021@fed1read04>
	<106di86neu1qh4d@news.supernews.com>
	<AHF9c.49048$cx5.33872@fed1read04> <c4akqh$gml$1@panix2.panix.com>
	<Sz8ac.68272$cx5.62681@fed1read04>
	<mailman.115.1080652873.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<4069a001$0$4237$afc38c87@news.easynet.co.uk>
	<4069e9d9$0$8915$636a15ce@news.free.fr>
	<406a98ee$0$290$edfadb0f@dread12.news.tele.dk>
	<mailman.166.1080729074.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<mpjl60hsp95qo5evu620t6kj1u0auplb68@4ax.com>
	<zyFac.57608$1A6.1296027@news20.bellglobal.com>
	<tyfr7v814ah.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
Message-ID: <_QUac.63300$1A6.1594640@news20.bellglobal.com>

Jacek Generowicz wrote:
> Markus Wankus <markus_wankusGETRIDOFALLCAPS at hotmail.com> writes:
> 
> 
>>Right.  So if we'd all just settle on top-posting things wouldn't be
>>so bad after all.  It's all you bottom-posters that are screwing
>>things up for the rest of us. ;o)
> 
> 
> Did you actually _understand_ what he wrote?  Yes, I did notice the
> smiley, but I also noticed the apparent complete failure to get the
> point.

Geez..you can't even joke about this apparently.  OK.  Whatever.  I'm 
easy.  I *did* get the point BTW...

> Even if _everyone_ top-posts, then the reading direction is still
> inconsisitent and requires the reader to jump back and-forth, to
> understand what is going on.

Yes.

> Please _think_ about it. It really doesn't take very much thought to
> understand that top-posting sucks, but it does require some. More than
> top-posters seem to be able to muster, it seems.

Alright.

--

MAN!  There are some passionate individuals here.  In fact, a few 
minutes after my lighthearted post I received a flood of IP spoofing 
attacks on my router (you know who you are).  Man!  Take it easy, grab a 
beer (or whatever tickles your fancy) and chill.  Code something - that 
usually helps me.  Just don't use VB or C++.  ;o)

Markus.


From rawbobb at hotmail.com  Sat Apr 24 14:39:29 2004
From: rawbobb at hotmail.com (bobb)
Date: Sat, 24 Apr 2004 18:39:29 GMT
Subject: [OT] Plone
References: <6ukic.84257$cd.5573763@phobos.telenet-ops.be>
Message-ID: <Bvyic.29702$635.10865@nwrdny03.gnilink.net>

Just 'cause it's cool doesn't mean it's not difficult...  I think (thanks to
tracebacks) it's very easy to debug, though.
Zope w/ Plone, by itself CAN be a slam dunk (like Franz Says above), but
extending it takes knowledge.
Zope has a long learning first gear, so to speak.
There's alot that CAN go on.  Alot of people have written products that sit
on top of it.
The biggest problem I find is the lack of documentation IMO.
The community is the best, though.
You don't need CMS for content management.  It all depends on what you want
to do.

Zope is a framework.  You still have to build the house, though.  Plone
takes care of alot of that out of the box.
You may not need Plone, you may not even need zope CMS, either.

bobb


"flupke" <flupke at nonexistingdomain.com> wrote in message
news:6ukic.84257$cd.5573763 at phobos.telenet-ops.be...
> Hi,
>
> i've read some user comments on Zope. As was to be expected some say
> it's cool, others says it's difficult and not easy to debug.
> I would use Plone as CMS for our intranet which will also be a platform
> for our tools. Does plone make it even more difficult to get going or does
> it
> hide some of the difficulties of Zope?
> I'm kind of in a dillema here, the more i read about Python, the more i
like
> it. As it seems mod_python/FCGI is a good combo to bring Python power
> to the web but since they want a CMS and i don't have time to write one
> from the ground up, i'm thinking of using Plone.
> I have my doubts about Zope especially from the viewpoint
> of administration. I will have to maitain the systems where it runs on
also.
>
> Any comments?
> flupke
>
>
>




From NAVMSE-GADBNE2 at qld.gadens.com.au  Tue Apr 27 19:53:40 2004
From: NAVMSE-GADBNE2 at qld.gadens.com.au (NAV for Microsoft Exchange-GADBNE2)
Date: Wed, 28 Apr 2004 09:53:40 +1000
Subject: Norton AntiVirus detected and quarantined a virus in a message yo
	u sent.
Message-ID: <BC7E070A793268428BFDA14A456E4B93B57F9B@gadbne2.qld.gadens.com.au>

Recipient of the infected attachment:  Margaret Thomas\Inbox
Subject of the message:  Information
One or more attachments were quarantined.
  Attachment Bill.zip was Quarantined for the following reasons:
    Virus W32.Netsky.Z at mm was found.
    Virus W32.Netsky.Z at mm was found in Bill.txt
.exe.
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
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From junkmail at solumslekt.org  Fri Apr 23 19:02:16 2004
From: junkmail at solumslekt.org (Leif B. Kristensen)
Date: Sat, 24 Apr 2004 01:02:16 +0200
Subject: Goodbye TCL
References: <0LudnSads6NmpuPdRVn-vw@centurytel.net>
	<21ccedf1.0404160639.14c2d852@posting.google.com>
	<1080ml0hdpp6tdf@corp.supernews.com>
	<c60i7t$2aff$1@godfrey.mcc.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <eihic.8697$px6.121418@news2.e.nsc.no>

Donal K. Fellows wrote:

> Cameron Laird wrote:
> I had a quick look into general DB APIs in the past, and the response
> I got from the DB community at the time was "but this doesn't support
> this *vital* feature only implemented in one DB that 0.01% of users
> really need and therefore we could never ever use your proposal for a
> standard
> API".  It's kind of discouraging.
> 
> FWIW, I think some mostly-common subset of functionality is possible
> (if we assume SQL underneath; without that, you can't get anywhere)
> and it would be enough to get most of the low-end and casual users
> total satisfaction. 

That's exactly the philosophy behind MySQL <g>

Seriously, I think that any db frontend should start with the most
simplistic approach possible. The niceties are way beyond most users
anyway. This approach should also help getting most interfaces across
the doorstep too, - as this is the most difficult distance.

regards,
-- 
Leif Biberg Kristensen
http://solumslekt.org/
Validare necesse est


From beliavsky at aol.com  Fri Apr  9 17:08:41 2004
From: beliavsky at aol.com (beliavsky at aol.com)
Date: 9 Apr 2004 14:08:41 -0700
Subject: Compact Python library for math statistics
References: <E1B9LoV-0005OQ-00@fatlady.ukr.net>
	<mailman.267.1080904644.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<3064b51d.0404061038.4d69fd89@posting.google.com>
	<5d83790c.0404090024.5cefb2ea@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3064b51d.0404091308.472dfb78@posting.google.com>

python at rcn.com (Raymond Hettinger) wrote in message news:<5d83790c.0404090024.5cefb2ea at posting.google.com>...

<SNIP>

> > (2) The following code crashes when median(x) is computed. Why?
> > 
> > from statistics import mean,median
> > x = [1.0,2.0,3.0,4.0]
> > print mean(x)
> > print median(x)
> 
> Hmm, it works for me.  What does your traceback look like?

The module statistics.py imports a module 'random'. I have my own file
random.py, and it was importing that. My mistake -- sorry.
 
> > (3) The standard deviation is computed as 
> > 
> >     return variance(data, sample) ** 0.5
> > 
> > I think the sqrt function should be used instead -- this may be
> > implemented more efficiently than general exponentiation.
> 
> The timings show otherwise:
> 
> C:\pydev>python timeit.py -r9 -n100000 -s "import math;
> sqrt=math.sqrt" "sqrt(7.0)"
> 100000 loops, best of 9: 1.7 usec per loop
> 
> C:\pydev>python timeit.py -r9 -n100000 -s "7.0 ** 0.5"
> 100000 loops, best of 9: 0.237 usec per loop

For the Compaq and Lahey/Fujitsu Fortran 95 compilers I found that
sqrt(x) and x**0.5 take the same time -- probably the compiler
converts the latter to the former. On one compiler I found that
computing x**0.49 takes about 10 times longer than sqrt(x), indicating
that a sqrt function should be considerably faster than real
exponentiation.

I wonder if for Python, psyco eliminates the speed difference between
sqrt(x) and x**0.5. Otherwise, the speed difference may indicate a
fundamental problem in using a scripting language like Python for
numerical work -- function calls take too much time. Because of that,
sqrt is much slower than real exponentiation, when it should be much
faster.

Overall, the Python code below is about 100 times slower than the
Fortran equivalent. This is a typical ratio I have found for code
involving loops.

from math import sqrt
n = 10000000 + 1
sum_sqrt = 0.0
for i in range(1,n):
    sum_sqrt = sum_sqrt + (float(i))**0.5
print sum_sqrt


From samschul at pacbell.net  Sun Apr 18 14:47:33 2004
From: samschul at pacbell.net (Samuel Schulenburg)
Date: 18 Apr 2004 11:47:33 -0700
Subject: using a USB HID device
References: <40827ce3.1151345337@news.xs4all.nl>
Message-ID: <d7fcf8b4.0404181047.4c57db1c@posting.google.com>

wouter at voti.nl (Wouter van Ooijen (www.voti.nl)) wrote in message news:<40827ce3.1151345337 at news.xs4all.nl>...
> I want to use Python to interface with an USB HID device (not a
> keyboard or mouse, just something that uses the HID driver to avoid
> the need for a specific driver). Is this possible in pure Python on
> Windows, or even better, in a portable way?
> 
> Wouter van Ooijen
> 
> -- ------------------------------------
> http://www.voti.nl
> PICmicro chips, programmers, consulting

I have developed routines for Windows that address mass storage
devices using the Windows SCSIPASSTHROUGH layer. I found that USB
devices do not use this layer, and as a result I am also investigating
using python to access USB devices. So far it looks like a seperate
driver along with a interfaceing DLL will needed.

Sam Schulenburg


From No.Spam.mc at No.Spam.mclaveau.No.Spam.com  Fri Apr  9 03:36:19 2004
From: No.Spam.mc at No.Spam.mclaveau.No.Spam.com (Michel Claveau/Hamster)
Date: Fri, 9 Apr 2004 09:36:19 +0200
Subject: Function args
References: <sdqdc.37060$zm5.15866@nntpserver.swip.net>
	<c55f5r$f2l$1@news-reader4.wanadoo.fr>
	<c55g8u$vvg$1@s1.read.news.oleane.net>
Message-ID: <c55joj$q5f$1@news-reader1.wanadoo.fr>

Re

Je redis : en Python, les objets ne sont pas modifiables (sauf listes et
dictionnaires).

En faisant :
  c = b
  b = a
  a = c

Cela veut dire :
 - c=b  cr?ation d'un objet auquel on affecte la valeur b, avec une variable
c qui pointe dessus
 - b=a  cr?ation d'un objet auquel on affecte la valeur a, avec une variable
b qui pointe dessus
 - a=c  cr?ation d'un objet auquel on affecte la valeur c, avec une variable
a qui pointe dessus

Donc, au r?sultat, on aura bien eu un ?change des valeurs, mais avec
cr?ation d'objets.

D'ailleurs, on peut suivre ce qui se passe, avec  id() qui donne
l'identifiant unique d'un objet.

a=2
print id (a)
a=3
print id(a)
a+=1
print id(a)

On voit bien qu'il y a cr?ation d'un nouvel objet 'a'  ? chaque affectation.

Il faut comprendre qu'il y a deux notions :
    - en Python, une variable est toujours une r?f?rence (? un objet)
    - les objets ne sont pas modifiables (sauf listes et dictionnaires)




Si tu veux vraiment utiliser des objets modifiables, passe par une liste, ou
un dictionnaire.
Exemple avec un dictionnaire :
    def permut(x,y):
        d[x],d[y]=d[y],d[x]

    d={'a':2, 'b':3}
    print d['a'],d['b']
    print id(d['a']),id(d['b'])

    permut('a','b')
    print d['a'],d['b']
    print id(d['a']),id(d['b'])


On voit bien, ici, gr?ce a "id()", qu'ici, il y a eu ?change des adresses
(r?f?rence) des ?l?ments internes du dictionnaire.


Ce syst?me de gestion des objets par r?f?rence, dans Python, est assez
fabuleux, car une variable peut r?f?rencer n'importe quel objet : un nombre,
une fonction, un dictionnaire, une liste de liste de liste, une classe, etc.
Les possibilit?s deviennent inou?es. Mais il faut bien ma?triser les notions
d'abord.



@-salutations

Michel Claveau









From deetsNOSPAM at web.de  Tue Apr 13 17:57:21 2004
From: deetsNOSPAM at web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2004 23:57:21 +0200
Subject: 3D Graphics Engine
References: <8089854e.0404130639.3eb0db62@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.582.1081872602.20120.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <c5hnk2$kl0$05$1@news.t-online.com>

> Blender has a browser plug-in mechanism in which you can run
> animations... don't know if they can use Python on that side, though,
> I'd be surprised if they can.

Don't know about the plugin, but blender is scriptable using python. You can
program games and the like.

-- 
Regards,

Diez B. Roggisch


From gwnac at dhr.state.ga.us  Thu Apr 15 17:58:27 2004
From: gwnac at dhr.state.ga.us (GDPH Antivirus System)
Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2004 16:58:27 -0500
Subject: [GWAVA:19h1xv1i] Attachment block message notification
Message-ID: <5c77ei107ttrji>

This is an automated Notification e-mail message from GWAVA.

The message you sent, from the address python-list at python.org

to Ammoon at gdph.state.ga.us

Concerning: Mail Delivery (failure ammoon at gdph.state.ga.us)

Was not delivered because it contained an attachment not accepted by the e-mail
system in use at the intended recipient's organization.

Attachment Name: message.scr






From nemesis at nowhere.invalid  Sat Apr 24 05:26:31 2004
From: nemesis at nowhere.invalid (Nemesis)
Date: Sat, 24 Apr 2004 09:26:31 GMT
Subject: [ANN] XPN 0.2.6
Message-ID: <7kbd6c.fu1.ln@nemesis.homeinvalid>

XPN is a newsreader written in Python+GTK with unicode support.

Major Changes in this release:

*Added Import/Export newsrc file.
*Added autoencode feature. Now XPN automatically chooses the best
encodig for outgoing articles.
*Fixed another bug in threads building

Links:
http://sf.net/projects/xpn
http://xpn.altervista.org  (italian)

-- 
In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice. But, in
practice, there is.

 |\ |       |HomePage   : http://nem01.altervista.org
 | \|emesis |XPN (my nr): http://xpn.altervista.org



From maxm at mxm.dk  Thu Apr 15 04:25:07 2004
From: maxm at mxm.dk (Max M)
Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2004 10:25:07 +0200
Subject: Getters and setters in python, common practise
In-Reply-To: <407e402c$1@newsflash.abo.fi>
References: <407e402c$1@newsflash.abo.fi>
Message-ID: <407e4703$0$255$edfadb0f@dread12.news.tele.dk>

Petter Holmstr?m wrote:

> Hello,
> 
> Having a Delphi/Object Pascal-background, I'm very used to using getters 
> and setters when designing my classes. What is the common practise in 
> the Python world? Should one use them or not?

Start with simple object attributes, then convert to attribute functions 
  using get/set-ers when needed.

regards Max M


From andrew-pythonlist at puzzling.org  Thu Apr 22 09:05:03 2004
From: andrew-pythonlist at puzzling.org (Andrew Bennetts)
Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2004 23:05:03 +1000
Subject: Generator inside a class prevent __del__ ??
In-Reply-To: <40878C7B.CB13F2F5@free.fr>
References: <4085BA96.651D2E4A@free.fr>
	<mailman.819.1082507351.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<40866ECD.A45758B9@free.fr>
	<mailman.885.1082588262.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<4087031A.AEB67C72@free.fr>
	<mailman.890.1082593651.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<40878C7B.CB13F2F5@free.fr>
Message-ID: <20040422130503.GB20063@frobozz>

On Thu, Apr 22, 2004 at 11:12:27AM +0200, Emmanuel wrote:
> 
> Ok, I think I don't understand anything anymore...
> 
> I thought __del__ was the destructor of the object, like the object::~object in C++ ( my
> experience in programming is mainly from C++ ), and so __del__ shouldn't affect when they
> are destructed.

__del__ unfortunately *does* impact the lifetime of the object, at least in
CPython:
    http://docs.python.org/lib/module-gc.html#l2h-403
    http://docs.python.org/ref/customization.html#l2h-175

It's main use used to be to break reference cycles, because before Python
2.0 (or perhaps 1.6?), it couldn't automatically collect reference cycles
because it used a purely ref-count based approach.  Now that cycles are
automatically collected, there's not much point in defining __del__ (and it
can actually have unexpected results).

> And I thought weakref is a way to control the lifetime, ie when the ref count is
> decremented, and when to call __del__.

No -- weakref doesn't affect the lifetime, that's it's point.  It's a way to
have a reference to an object that doesn't keep the object alive if nothing
else is.  As the documentation at
http://docs.python.org/lib/module-weakref.html says:

    A weak reference to an object is not enough to keep the object alive:
    when the only remaining references to a referent are weak references,
    garbage collection is free to destroy the referent and reuse its memory
    for something else.

> >From what you ( and others ) are saying, I'm proven wrong...
> 
> Do you know where I can find more information, beside python doc ?

Try googling for tutorials and things, there's probably stuff out there.
The Python docs are pretty good, though... the weakref module has pretty
comprehensive documentation, and the description of __del__ in the language
reference has big note that mentions that garbage-collection of cycles
doesn't work when __del__ methods are involved.

I've also found books such as Python in a Nutshell and the Python Essential
Reference to be quite good at pointing this sort of thing out, when I've
looked.  I usually rely on the official Python docs, though.

-Andrew.




From fd1 at gmx.org  Fri Apr  9 16:09:58 2004
From: fd1 at gmx.org (Frank Dieckmann)
Date: Fri, 09 Apr 2004 22:09:58 +0200
Subject: Python-2.3.3 install -> no "make"
Message-ID: <2278156.F9pO2Pa3OA@Lumina-verte.org>

Hi!

I 've tryed to install Python-2.3.3 under SuSE 8.0:
Unpacking was fine,
./configure seems to be too,
but there was no make-file (only "Makefile" but that seems to be something 
else).
What have I forgotten or which fault did I made?
How can I handle this problem, what do I have to do to install Python?

Kind regards!

Frank
-- 
Es schl?ft ein Lied in allen Dingen,
Die da tr?umen fort und fort.
Die ganze Welt hebt an zu singen,
Triffst Du nur das Zauberwort.
             (Josef von Eichendorff)


From newsgroups at jhrothjr.com  Mon Apr  5 17:38:52 2004
From: newsgroups at jhrothjr.com (John Roth)
Date: Mon, 5 Apr 2004 17:38:52 -0400
Subject: design by contract versus doctest
References: <407174ea$0$5066$4d4ebb8e@news.nl.uu.net>
	<T7Sdnf23r-IZGOzdRVn-sA@powergate.ca>
	<40718ddb$0$5071$4d4ebb8e@news.nl.uu.net>
	<IdadnapeW8YCCOzdRVn-jw@powergate.ca>
	<4071a6d4$0$5064$4d4ebb8e@news.nl.uu.net>
Message-ID: <1073khliaebs58b@news.supernews.com>

"aku" <aku at europe.com> wrote in message
news:4071a6d4$0$5064$4d4ebb8e at news.nl.uu.net...
> On 2004-04-05, Peter Hansen <peter at engcorp.com> wrote:
> >  aku wrote:
> >

>
> The "downside" with DBC I see is: when the caller *cannot*
> ensure a precondition, then the behavior in the called
> function becomes unpredictable.

If the caller cannot insure the precondition, then
they shouldn't be calling that particular function.
The function is not providing the needed service.
This is a design issue, of course. DBC is not a
license to shove all the dirty work onto the caller;
it's a way of clearly separating responsibilities in
a useful fashion.

John Roth




From jdhunter at ace.bsd.uchicago.edu  Thu Apr 29 22:35:51 2004
From: jdhunter at ace.bsd.uchicago.edu (John Hunter)
Date: Thu, 29 Apr 2004 21:35:51 -0500
Subject: operator double() surprise in cxx
Message-ID: <m2r7u6b3aw.fsf@mother.paradise.lost>


I am using pycxx 5.2.2 to generate some extension code.  I want to
extract some doubles from some python sequences

When I do

  double l( Py::Float(rect[0]) ); 
  double b( Py::Float(rect[1]) ); 

and then later call something like l+b in the extensions code, I get
the compile time error

src/_backend_agg2.cpp:110: error: invalid operands of types `double
   ()(Py::Float*)' and `double ()(Py::Float*)' to binary `operator+'

But

  double l = Py::Float(rect[0]) ; 
  double b = Py::Float(rect[1]) ; 

compiles fine.


I see in the module docs that Py::Float overloads operator double(),
but there is something I am not understanding.  How are these 2 cases
different.  In both cases I expect l and b to be of type double, so
why the difference?  I guess I don't understand exactly what it mean
in C++ to overload operator double().

Thanks, 
John Hunter



From stewart at midwinter.ca  Tue Apr 13 23:07:47 2004
From: stewart at midwinter.ca (Stewart Midwinter)
Date: 13 Apr 2004 20:07:47 -0700
Subject: Error with trace.py
References: <87brlvcwvv.fsf@news2.ososo.de>
Message-ID: <9396ba6f.0404131907.bc6280@posting.google.com>

> Why doesn't it work?

well, are you running as non-root, but trace.py is trying to write to
a directory that only root has access to?

I tried the example under Windows, since under Linux I only have
Python 2.2 which doesn't have trace.py.

---
D:\data\python>python d:\python23\lib\trace.py -c -f
d:\data\python\counts test1.py

creates a file counts and a file test.cover. The former is a binary
file, while the latter is a marked-up version of the input file.

S


From tuure at laurinolli.net  Wed Apr 21 14:47:37 2004
From: tuure at laurinolli.net (Tuure Laurinolli)
Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2004 21:47:37 +0300
Subject: Dollar sign ($) on foriegn keyboards? (prothon)
In-Reply-To: <mk3hc.13895$dZ1.10823@fed1read04>
References: <mk3hc.13895$dZ1.10823@fed1read04>
Message-ID: <c66f8e$3ef$1@plaza.suomi.net>

Mark Hahn wrote:
> We are considering switching to the dollar sign ($) for self, instead of the
> period ( . ) we are using now in Prothon.  Ruby uses the at-sign (@) for
> self, but our new usage of self also includes replacing the period for some
> attribute references, as in obj$func() versus obj.func(), and too many
> programs treat that as an email address and screw it up.  Also the S in the
> symbol $ reminds one of the S in $elf.

Personally I hate the use of $, @, ?, # and & in any place where there 
are characters immediately on both sides of them. They don't visually 
break the word (unless they are highlighted by the editor, of course) 
and feel kludgy. & as prefix operator in C works pretty well because 
there usually is a space to it's left, and $ and @ as they are used in 
prefix role in perl work well enough (of course they are still damn 
ugly), but tucking wideand tall characters like that between words is 
IMO stupid.

Compare the following:
         a$b, a at b, a?b, a#b, a&b
         a,b, a.b, a-b, a_b, a!b, a?b

Some characters like single qutoes could be used for operators like 
this, at least they would be visually pleasing:

obj'func()
obj?func()
obj`func()

or possibly other high-line characters

obj^func()
obj?func()
obj~func()

Personally I like obj~func() and obj'func() most, and the use of ' as 
string quoting character only leaves ~, which I actually think would be 
pretty good.

> Can people from outside the U.S. tell me if typing the dollar sign often
> would be a problem in writing code?  Is it available and somewhat easy to
> type on international keyboards?

The typing is no problem up here in Finland, we have to use the whole 
numerical row together with AltGr anyway... You tend to learn to keep 
the right thumb on AltGr instead of space :)


From no at sp.am  Tue Apr  6 11:06:34 2004
From: no at sp.am (DH)
Date: Tue, 06 Apr 2004 10:06:34 -0500
Subject: GUI Frameworks in Python?
In-Reply-To: <c4tddj$2mjvdq$1@ID-169208.news.uni-berlin.de>
References: <mailman.102.1080629227.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<930ba99a.0404030246.786455f5@posting.google.com>
	<8ef9bea6.0404041009.26ae2683@posting.google.com>
	<c4tddj$2mjvdq$1@ID-169208.news.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <d86dnW_ktOblWu_dRVn-sQ@comcast.com>

Greg Ewing wrote:
>> Is the event handling in PyGTK cleaner/better than wxPython?
> 
> 
> The basic idea is fairly similar in both, but event handlers
> ("signal handlers" in Gtk terminology) seem more straightforward
> to set up in PyGtk. In wxPython, for example, you have to get the
> ID number of the widget and pass that to an event-binding function;
> in PyGtk, you just pass the widget itself.
> 
> That's just one example of how the PyGtk API is simpler. It might
> not sound like much, but lots of little things like that add up
> to make me like PyGtk much better.

I know, I can't believe wxPython doesn't use a simpler API for things 
like event binding rather than just sticking to the C++ api so closely. 
  That's why people are creating their own wrappers to wxPython now. 
It's ridiculous.  And yes, I know event binding was made slightly 
simpler for 2.5.  2.5 also takes some steps backwards, in the name of 
being more like the C++ api.


From jcarlson at uci.edu  Sat Apr  3 20:49:51 2004
From: jcarlson at uci.edu (Josiah Carlson)
Date: Sat, 03 Apr 2004 17:49:51 -0800
Subject: Python is faster than C
In-Reply-To: <406F5E95.EBE6D3E8@tunes.org>
References: <406F0907.96F37EA1@tunes.org> <7xy8pcogaa.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<406F454B.C4CC8063@tunes.org> <7xekr4vdek.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<406F5E95.EBE6D3E8@tunes.org>
Message-ID: <c4npq6$8uk$1@news.service.uci.edu>

> No, range should return an object that is a list, as far as you can tell
> from Python, but which is represented more efficiently than an array of
> objects internally.  The distinction is between the language level (it
> would be a list, with all operations, etc.) and the implementation
> (there is no reason why all lists should be arrays of PyObjects
> internally).

You can implement such a thing already.  In fact, xrange up until 
recently, supported basically everything that a list object did, except 
for mutations.  The reason it doesn't anymore is because for multiple 
versions of Python, such behavior was buggy and poorly supported.  If 
you are bored enough, feel free to make your own xrange-like object that 
supports mutation.  Heck, it can even subclass 'list', though it need 
not have any standard list internals.


> Another example would be 'a'*999999999: the result is a string, but
> there is no reason that it takes 100MB of memory.  Instead, store it
> into a C structure that contains a pointer to the original string object
> 'a' and the repetition counter, but still give this C structure the
> Python type str, so that the difference doesn't show up and the Python
> language remains simple.  (This is a bit difficult to implement
> currently in CPython, but not impossible.)

Also, you are free to implement such a thing.  I believe that the 
current CPython implementation doesn't follow this route (and other 
suggested optimizations) is because it needlessly complicates the 
implementation of CPython.


> Ideally: If you do  x=range(100); x[50]='hi'  then the interpreter first
> builds this optimized range representation and assigns it to x; and when
> in the next statement you modify this list x it says 'oops! i cannot do
> that with this representation', so it reverts to an array-like
> representation (i.e. it creates all 100 elements) and then changes the
> 50th.  No gain here.  If on the other hand you only ever do 'easy'
> things with your list, like iterate over it or read elements, then it
> can all be done with the range representation, without falling back to
> the array representation.

Why not instead use a dictionary-based approach for special items?  It 
would be far more memory efficient, and wouldn't incur the modification 
penalty.


> Again I'm not saying it is trivial to implement it, but that not having
> to expose for optimization purposes 'xrange' and the whole 'iterator'
> part of the language would be worth it, in my opinion.

I think that one of the desires of offering 'iterator' concepts to 
users, both new and seasoned, is that it allows people to think in ways 
they didn't before.  Allowing people to make those optimizations 'by 
hand', I believe (as an educator and computer scientist), allows them to 
grow as programmers (or computer scientists, as the case may be).

Don't get me wrong, it would be terribly convenient for Python to 
abstract away all the nastiness of optimization, but if/when someone 
were to do something that had been /very/ fast before, but was now 
awfully slow (think the current Queue.Queue object for small vs. large 
numbers of items), they are going to jump to the conclusion that Python 
is broken in some fundamental way, maybe come here to complain about 
Python being broken, and those who are familliar with the internals 
would say, "you are ruining Python's early optimization by this thing 
that you do".

Which really gets us to the fact that you are asking for the Python 
internals to be optimized.  In fact, while simultaneously saying "don't 
optimize early", you are optimizing early by saying that range should be 
optimized, as should string multiplication, etc.  Goodness man, pick a 
position and stick with it.

  - Josiah


From brian at sweetapp.com  Wed Apr 21 12:13:43 2004
From: brian at sweetapp.com (Brian Quinlan)
Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2004 18:13:43 +0200
Subject: This is very simple question
In-Reply-To: <b0457a31.0404210754.2a34b6be@posting.google.com>
References: <b0457a31.0404210754.2a34b6be@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <40869DB7.9070304@sweetapp.com>


> I would want to obtain a list of factors (multiples of 2) given a
> prime number in python.
> 
> For example 13=[8,4,1], 5=[4,1], 7=[4,2,1], 15=[8,4,2,1]
> 
> I would appreciate a fuction which would do this.

If we told you it wouldn't be fair to the other students in your class :-)

Cheers,
Brian




From whisper at oz.net  Thu Apr 15 02:58:19 2004
From: whisper at oz.net (David LeBlanc)
Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2004 23:58:19 -0700
Subject: Difficulty Finding Python Developers
In-Reply-To: <107rkii2un8o1b0@news.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <LAEHLEAOBBLKAALGAPAFEEIIEOAA.whisper@oz.net>

> "Paul Morrow" <pm_mon at yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:65cbc3dd.0404140641.3501fde8 at posting.google.com...
> > We've worked hard to convince our company to migrate our core
> > applications to Python, and now we're looking for a Python developer
> > in Atlanta to handle a short-term (approx. 3 month) project.  But our
> > initial searches have been fairly unsuccessful.  We haven't actually
> > posted a job on Monster, but we have been talking with various
> > headhunters in our area and they don't have many resumes that show
> > Python experience.  An so now, of course, mgt is wondering whether
> > selecting Python was a mistake.
> >
> > As anyone had a similar experience?  Suggestions?
>
> Besides Monster, different areas have other job boards
> that are pretty good. This one seems to be better in
> this area: at least it has the number of jobs I'd expect,
> and more than in some other areas:
>
> http://www.atlanta.computerjobs.com/
>
> John Roth

I think I'd look for experienced programmers that know Python more than I'd
worry about length of time knowing Python - for an experienced programmer, a
few months of Python exposure would go a lot further than for someone who
did not have prior programming experience. I've been programming for 30+
years and playing with Python for at least 3 years and I have no doubt that
I can develop good Python applications. Too bad I'm so far away from
Atlanta... ;)

I also think a good C or C++ programmer could come up to speed in Python
awefully fast. Even a Pearl programmer could retrain almost as fast... ;)

Dave LeBlanc
Seattle, WA USA




From dave at pythonapocrypha.com  Wed Apr  7 06:55:24 2004
From: dave at pythonapocrypha.com (Dave Brueck)
Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2004 04:55:24 -0600
Subject: Obfuscator, EXE, etc. - a solution
References: <1jPcc.41986$oR5.1890@pd7tw3no>
Message-ID: <012801c41c8e$d5697ad0$6600a8c0@YODA>

Jason wrote:
> There have been many many many many discussions about obfuscating
> python.  To my dismay, most who answer are those who frequently post,
> and they say things such as:
> 1) what's the point, in theory anything could eventually be decompiled
> 2) python is used for mostly internal stuff anyway, cuz its a "glue"
> language, so why bother

Haven't heard #2 much, btw.

> 3) use licensing and a good lawyer, it's the ONLY way
> 4) many programmers seem comfortable releasing their java and .net and
> other interpreted code products into the market, so why not you?
>
> I found most of these comments dismissive, and sometimes quite arrogant.
>   Frankly, the reasons why anyone would want to protect their code is
> simple and should be observed because we are all programmers: we want to
> protect our hard work.

I think you missed a very large class of responders who feel that some minor
obfuscation is okay - something that keeps the honest people honest - but that
anything beyond that is a waste of time because no wall you put up will be high
enough to keep out someone bent on cracking your code. So, e.g., if your build
process spits out all your .py files in a zip file that has been passed through
some simple encryption and you use a custom import hook, then you're good to
go.

IMO the real problem with so many of the schemes people have proposed is that
they place an inordinate burden on the developer for very little improvement in
"security". And THAT is what leads the discussion to some of the answers you
listed above. If an obfuscation scheme makes debugging too difficult, or makes
the programmer avoid a big set of useful features, etc, then it's not worth it
because at best it will improve security only slightly.

I'd wager that many people aren't opposed to obfuscation per se, they're
opposed to obfuscation whose cost is greater than the benefit, and that is the
case with 99% of the schemes suggested. That's the group I fall into - I think
code obfuscation is interesting but rarely worth it.

I'd like to add to your list:

5) Source code is much less valuable than many people think. With the exception
of stuff like code to read/write proprietary file formats or wildly efficient
implementations of certain algorithms, there's just not a lot of code out there
that, in itself, is all that special. I mean, I take pride in my work and don't
want to get ripped off, but I'm not fooling myself - it's stuff people could
figure out on their own (so it begs the question: specifically what program do
you have that is so innovative that warrants something more than a license and
perhaps the most trivial code obfuscation?)

Note that file formats and algorithms themselves are patentable and (setting
aside whether or not you agree that these types of patents are a Good Thing)
are even better than protecting the code because you're protected even in the
case of a clean room implementation.

Also, just getting your hands on the source code is a far cry from
understanding it well enough to maintain it, improve it, and extend it. In
order to do that reliably, you have to become quite familiar with the code, and
to do that you go through much of the same process one would go through to
write it from scratch in the first place (this is also why, for example, when a
developer leaves a company it's not uncommon for that developer's code to get
tossed/replaced soon - the company still has the code but it doesn't have the
knowledge and understanding that went into making the code, and re-acquiring
that knowledge requires about as much work as rewriting it does).

A common use case for code protection is for code that ensures the user has the
rights to use the software (e.g. you can't play the game unless you have a
valid CD key). This is an interesting one to me, but the abundance of cracks
and warez out there is a clear indication that hiding the source code does
little to hinder the crackers. The solutions that do work or at least provide
some relief apply to Python programs as well as they do to C programs.

6) When people talk about obfuscating their code, they don't really seem to
spend much time thinking about who exactly they are hiding it from. There are
people who will take your code to make money off it (businesses) and everyone
else. Businesses are generally _very_ careful about following license
agreements wrt code because of the liabilities - I'd LOVE it if a business
stole my code. To a business, a license is far bigger detriment than any code
hiding.

The non-business group of people who will not be stopped by simple code
obfuscation are also the people who can't really be beat by ANY obfuscation:
for any amount of time T that you're willing to spend creating schemes to hide
code from them, they are willing to spend some amount of time U to circumvent
it, where U >> T. Heck, for many of them it's a game. So you have to decide how
much time you're willing to spend in an arms race with people who you're not
going to make any money off anyway. It's not like these are would-be customers,
and most of the people who use their cracks aren't would-be customers either,
and hiding the source code does little to prevent cracks anyway.

> 1) Anything could eventually be decompiled.... yes that's true.  In a
> perfect world.  Have you ever tried to decompile C code and make sense
> of it?

It's non-trivial, but certainly not extremely hard, especially once you know
the compiler that was used (and that's often easy to determine / guess).

> Try a large C program.  Good luck, you philosophers.

Philosophy? Not needed - there are *excellent* commercial decompilers
available. That's why most software licenses explicitly forbid reverse
engineering and decompiling - because any Joe can find the tools to do it.

> 2) I don't see Python as merely a glue language.

Does anybody?

> 3) Using licensing and a good lawyer.  I'm all for that!  Now your code
> has been stolen... and you are going to hire a lawyer to fight it out in
>   court.

Well, do you have a specific example of something that's steal-worthy? There is
so little steal-worthy code that it's the exception rather than the rule, so
for most people and most code this is an irrational scenario to fret about.
What, your code was the missing link in their business, and now they are raking
in the cash thanks to you? Not all that likely...

I'm not saying that there aren't cases where it shouldn't end up in a court
battle, just that in reality they'd be really rare, and when they did happen it
WOULD be worth it for you to stick it out to the end because (1) there would be
significant upside and (2) if they did steal your code and use it you'd
probably have a good chance of proving it.

Stealing code is extremely risky for a company (almost unlimited liability).

> 4) Others release their java and .net programs.  Many obfuscate their
> code before doing so, for the very same reasons a Python programmer
> would want to do so.

But just because other people do it doesn't mean that (1) what they're doing
really makes sense or that (2) the benefit exceeds the cost or that (3) what
they are protecting is worth stealing.

(besides, if they're using Java or .Net then their judgement skills are already
suspect ;-)   It's a joke. Laugh. )

> Here's my solution, it's not perfect, but it works well:
> Use Pyrex, which translates your python sources (virtually unchanged) to

Hey, if this works for you, more power to you - that's great that you've found
something that suits your needs.

For me, this is yet another example of a "solution" that puts way too much
burden on the developer while providing (at best) modest gains. Pyrex is
awesome for writing extensions, but last time I checked it didn't support (in
addition to what you listed) list comprehensions, generators, functions defined
inside functions, and Unicode. These are all things I'm willing to live without
when writing Pyrex extensions, but certainly not in general - they are features
that for me provide tangible benefit (in terms of productivity, code
maintainability, etc.), so avoiding them is an actual cost. The benefit over
e.g. a trivially-encrypted zip of the .pyc files is tiny, so the scheme doesn't
seem worth it.

Again though, if it works for you, great. I definitely wouldn't consider it a
widely applicable method of code obfuscation though.

-Dave




From bjg at network-theory.co.uk  Tue Apr 13 07:04:44 2004
From: bjg at network-theory.co.uk (Brian Gough)
Date: 13 Apr 2004 12:04:44 +0100
Subject: Once-only evaluation of default parameter values function
	definitions
References: <407B79D7.424F65A1@doe.carleton.ca>
Message-ID: <87ad1g9m0j.fsf@network-theory.co.uk>

Fred Ma <fma at doe.carleton.ca> writes:

> I'm looking at Python for the 1st time today, motivated by its clarity
> of syntax.  I've looked at the tutoarial at
> http://www.python.org/doc/current/tut/tut.html, particularly at the
> section about default arguments.  I've got some C++/STL under my belt,
> so I'm familiar with passing/returning by reference, by value, and by
> pointers.....
>
> The problem with this picture is that Example#2 should fail for the
> same reasons as Example#1.  That is, L will not get the value of None
> on the 2nd call to f() without a value specified for L.  Hence, L will
> not be reset to [].

Your explanation is correct up to this point, but the behavior of the
two cases is different.  When L=[] is in the body of the fuction, it
is like a local "automatic" variable in C/C++ and discarded at the
end of the function.  When L=[] is used in the parameter list, it is
like a "static" variable in C/C++ and persists on future calls.

HTH

-- 
Brian Gough

Network Theory Ltd,
Publishing Free Software Manuals --- http://www.network-theory.co.uk/


From rogerb at rogerbinns.com  Mon Apr 19 18:58:54 2004
From: rogerb at rogerbinns.com (Roger Binns)
Date: Mon, 19 Apr 2004 15:58:54 -0700
Subject: using a USB HID device
References: <40827ce3.1151345337@news.xs4all.nl>	<c5ufh6$rok$02$1@news.t-online.com>	<4082e29d.1177387563@news.xs4all.nl>
	<mailman.746.1082320568.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<c5vo2p$ed6$02$1@news.t-online.com>
	<4083899d.1220139618@news.xs4all.nl> <408431E1.8080201@v.loewis.de>
Message-ID: <662el1-q04.ln1@home.rogerbinns.com>

Martin v. L?wis wrote:
> Notice, however, that your users need administrator privileges to
> install a kernel mode driver.

Yup.  However you can access a device if there is a device driver
attached as well, as long as it is not open.  For example if you
have a USB to serial device, you can open it under libusb-win32
providing no other user space code has it open as a com port device.

Unfortunately with both Linux and Mac, libusb can only open devices
for which there is no driver currently attached (irrespective of
whether there is a user space program with the device open).

Windows also requires that a driver be present.  There is a do
nothing driver included with libusb-win32 that can be used.

Roger




From aku at europe.com  Wed Apr  7 05:26:34 2004
From: aku at europe.com (aku)
Date: 07 Apr 2004 09:26:34 GMT
Subject: design by contract versus doctest
References: <407174ea$0$5066$4d4ebb8e@news.nl.uu.net>
	<4072977b$0$1699$afc38c87@news.easynet.co.uk>
Message-ID: <4073c94a$0$5066$4d4ebb8e@news.nl.uu.net>

On 2004-04-06, Peter Hickman <peter at semantico.com> wrote:
> 
>  But then this is the python news group so I expect the father of DbC, 
>  Bertrand Meyer, is wrong.
> 
>  No Smilley

If someone deserves the title "father of DBC" it surely must
be E. W. Dijkstra, the one who teached me in college;)



From greg at invalid.invalid  Wed Apr 28 18:29:38 2004
From: greg at invalid.invalid (Greg Krohn)
Date: Wed, 28 Apr 2004 22:29:38 GMT
Subject: Don't understand wxPython ids
In-Reply-To: <yoTjc.13255$eZ5.1700@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>
References: <408ed938$0$17263$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
	<BOEjc.12559$eZ5.4366@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>
	<408f3061$0$17258$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
	<zCJjc.12791$eZ5.2682@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>
	<408fb665$0$17264$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
	<yoTjc.13255$eZ5.1700@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <mfWjc.16567$e4.16098@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net>

Greg Krohn wrote:
> If I can't figure this out, I'll try subclassing individule widgets and 
> throwing it in a module.
> 
> greg

Here we go. Use the attached module like this:

#yourmodule.py
import wx
from event_kwargs import *

... your code ...

self.ok_button = wx.Button(self, -1, "Ok", EVT_BUTTON=self.OnOk)

...more code...


The only testing I've done is in the "if __name__ == '__main__'" part of 
the module. I *haven't* tested all the widgets and events, but they 
should theoretically work.

greg
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From dyzma at mat.uni.torun.pl  Wed Apr  7 15:53:18 2004
From: dyzma at mat.uni.torun.pl (Lukasz Indyk)
Date: Wed, 07 Apr 2004 21:53:18 +0200
Subject: Zope - how to import whole folder at once?
Message-ID: <c51m68$ok4$1@flis.man.torun.pl>

im's sorry if it's wrong group to ask this question, but i could not 
find any that seems to be better ...

i have existing web site (written in html and javascript only, no php 
etc.), and i want to integrate it with zope. i can add every page, image 
etc. one by one using import, but i would like to add it at once.

how to do it?

regards


From bkelley at wi.mit.edu  Wed Apr 14 13:07:27 2004
From: bkelley at wi.mit.edu (Brian Kelley)
Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2004 13:07:27 -0400
Subject: [wxPython] MVC example?
In-Reply-To: <h6cfc.29378$I83.535807@twister.tampabay.rr.com>
References: <h6cfc.29378$I83.535807@twister.tampabay.rr.com>
Message-ID: <407d7000$0$579$b45e6eb0@senator-bedfellow.mit.edu>

Nobody wrote:

> I'm trying to wrap my mind around MVC.  Does anyone have a _simple_ example
> of using the MVC pattern with wxPython?  Maybe just a simple window with a
> dialog box that allows one to update some data.
> 
All right, here you go.  Some points to mention...

The model knows nothing about the view or the controller.
The view knows nothing about the controller or the model.
The controller understands both the model and the view.

The model uses observables, essentially when important data is changed, 
any interested listener gets notified through a callback mechanism.

The following opens up two windows, one that reports how much money you 
have, and one that has two buttons, one to add money and one to remove 
money.

The important thing is that the controller is set up to monitor changes 
in the model.  In this case the controller notices that you clicked a 
button and modifies the money in the model which then sends out a 
message that it has changed.  The controller notices this and updates 
the widgets.

The cool thing is that anything modifying the model will notify the 
model.  In this case it is the controller modifying the model, but it 
could be anything else, even another controller off in the distance 
looking at something else.

The main idea is that you give a controller the model and view that it 
needs, but the model's can be shared between controllers so that when 
the model is updated, all associated views are updated.

I sure hope that made sense, anyway, here is the code, enjoy.

import wx

# an observable calls callback functions when the data has
# changed
#o = Observable()
#def func(data):
#    print "hello", data
#o.addCallback(func)
#o.set(1)
# --> "hello", 1

class Observable:
     def __init__(self, initialValue=None):
         self.data = initialValue
         self.callbacks = {}

     def addCallback(self, func):
         self.callbacks[func] = 1

     def delCallback(self, func):
         del self.callback[func]

     def _docallbacks(self):
         for func in self.callbacks:
             func(self.data)

     def set(self, data):
         self.data = data
         self._docallbacks()

     def get(self):
         return self.data

     def unset(self):
         self.data = None

class Model:
     def __init__(self):
         self.myMoney = Observable(0)

     def addMoney(self, value):
         self.myMoney.set(self.myMoney.get() + value)

     def removeMoney(self, value):
         self.myMoney.set(self.myMoney.get() - value)


class View(wx.Frame):
     def __init__(self, parent):
         wx.Frame.__init__(self, parent, -1, "Main View")
         sizer = wx.BoxSizer(wx.VERTICAL)
         text = wx.StaticText(self, -1, "My Money")
         ctrl = wx.TextCtrl(self, -1, "")
         sizer.Add(text, 0, wx.EXPAND|wx.ALL)
         sizer.Add(ctrl, 0, wx.EXPAND|wx.ALL)
         self.moneyCtrl = ctrl
         ctrl.SetEditable(False)
         self.SetSizer(sizer)
         self.moneyCtrl = ctrl

     def SetMoney(self, money):
         self.moneyCtrl.SetValue(str(money))

class ChangerWidget(wx.Frame):
     def __init__(self, parent):
         wx.Frame.__init__(self, parent, -1, "Main View")
         sizer = wx.BoxSizer(wx.VERTICAL)
         self.add = wx.Button(self, -1, "Add Money")
         self.remove = wx.Button(self, -1, "Remove Money")
         sizer.Add(self.add, 0, wx.EXPAND|wx.ALL)
         sizer.Add(self.remove, 0, wx.EXPAND|wx.ALL)
         self.SetSizer(sizer)

class Controller:
     def __init__(self, app):
         self.model = Model()
         self.view1 = View(None)
         self.view2 = ChangerWidget(self.view1)
         self.MoneyChanged(self.model.myMoney.get())
         self.view2.add.Bind(wx.EVT_BUTTON, self.AddMoney)
         self.view2.remove.Bind(wx.EVT_BUTTON, self.RemoveMoney)

         self.model.myMoney.addCallback(self.MoneyChanged)
         self.view1.Show()
         self.view2.Show()

     def AddMoney(self, evt):
         self.model.addMoney(10)

     def RemoveMoney(self, evt):
         self.model.removeMoney(10)

     def MoneyChanged(self, money):
         self.view1.SetMoney(money)


app = wx.PySimpleApp()
Controller(app)
app.MainLoop()



From wouter at voti.nl  Sun Apr 18 10:03:44 2004
From: wouter at voti.nl (Wouter van Ooijen www.voti.nl)
Date: Sun, 18 Apr 2004 14:03:44 GMT
Subject: using a USB HID device
Message-ID: <40827ce3.1151345337@news.xs4all.nl>

I want to use Python to interface with an USB HID device (not a
keyboard or mouse, just something that uses the HID driver to avoid
the need for a specific driver). Is this possible in pure Python on
Windows, or even better, in a portable way?

Wouter van Ooijen

-- ------------------------------------
http://www.voti.nl
PICmicro chips, programmers, consulting


From garryknight at gmx.net  Sun Apr 11 20:05:20 2004
From: garryknight at gmx.net (Garry Knight)
Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2004 01:05:20 +0100
Subject: OT: history of discussion forums
References: <mailman.407.1081323836.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<4079215A.3010606@cs.com> <sfOdndnwedXPXOTdRVn-sw@powergate.ca>
Message-ID: <1081728319.76650.2@doris.uk.clara.net>

In message <sfOdndnwedXPXOTdRVn-sw at powergate.ca>, Peter Hansen wrote:

> Robert M. Emmons wrote:
>> USENET or Network News is the second oldest discussion forum
>> group around. 
> 
> What, in your opinion, was the first?

You snipped it from his post. He said:

> Incidently, the first 
> discussion forum network was "mailing lists".

-- 
Garry Knight
garryknight at gmx.net  ICQ 126351135
Linux registered user 182025


From __peter__ at web.de  Tue Apr 13 09:10:32 2004
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2004 15:10:32 +0200
Subject: Logging Stacktrace To File
References: <407bcbca$1_2@newspeer2.tds.net>
	<eovsk1-e02.ln1@wintermute.g2ctech>
	<407bdce5$1_1@newspeer2.tds.net>
Message-ID: <c5gos8$nic$06$1@news.t-online.com>

Olaf Meding wrote:

>> ... have to catch the exception and then log it to the file.
> 
> Right.  I do also know how to open a file and write to it.
> 
> But how do I get at the stack trace?  I would like to have it look the
> same in the file as what gets printed to the screen.

A quick and dirty approach to deal with _uncaught_ exceptions (untested):

>>> def eh(klass, inst, tb):
...     sys.stderr = file("tmp.txt", "a")
...     sys.__excepthook__(klass, inst, tb)
...     sys.stderr.close()
...     sys.stderr = sys.__stderr__
...
>>> import sys
>>> raise Exception("so what")
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
Exception: so what
>>> sys.excepthook = eh
>>> raise Exception("so what")
>>>
$ cat tmp.txt
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
Exception: so what

Peter


From pythonguy at Hotpop.com  Thu Apr 22 08:06:05 2004
From: pythonguy at Hotpop.com (Anand Pillai)
Date: 22 Apr 2004 05:06:05 -0700
Subject: Difficulty Finding Python Developers (me too!)
References: <65cbc3dd.0404140641.3501fde8@posting.google.com>
	<4084AB85.15E9BAE2@shaw.ca> <dbdgl1-1de.ln1@home.rogerbinns.com>
Message-ID: <84fc4588.0404220406.3ec8b50f@posting.google.com>

Me! Me!

Outsource it to India and I can help to do it for you :-)

-Anand


"Roger Binns" <rogerb at rogerbinns.com> wrote in message news:<dbdgl1-1de.ln1 at home.rogerbinns.com>...
> SeeBelow at SeeBelow.Nut wrote:
> > We need someone to add graphics & GUI to an existing C program. The main
> > program, graphics & GUI would be python/tKinter.
> 
> In that case, not only are you looking for a Python programmer,
> but also one that does tkInter (which is an even smaller subset).
> I would recommend not picking a GUI toolkit but instead letting
> the Python programmer do it.  That way you may end up with a
> Qt, GTK, wxPython or tkInter user interface, but it would be
> better than having nothing.  You may also be able to split
> your program in two and have a backend doing the all calculations
> etc, and a front end that runs in a web browser, or uses XML-RPC
> or something to show what is going on.
> 
> BTW I gave up on tkInter a few years ago because of its lack of
> support for printing.  I now happily do everything in wxPython
> and find it the best solution *for me* for doing apps that run
> equally well on Windows, Linux and Mac.
> 
> Roger


From edcjones at erols.com  Mon Apr 26 07:57:32 2004
From: edcjones at erols.com (Edward C. Jones)
Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2004 07:57:32 -0400
Subject: Using descriptors to wrap methods
Message-ID: <408cfa5a$0$28920$61fed72c@news.rcn.com>

Here is a stripped-down version of a Python Cookbook recipe. Is there a 
simpler, more Pythonical, natural way of doing this?

------
#! /usr/bin/env python

# Modified from Python Cookbook entry 91192, "eiffelmethod" by Andres
# Tuells. The url is
# http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Cookbook/Python/Recipe/91192

class MethodWraper(object):
     def __init__(self, method):
         self.method = method
     def __get__(self, inst, type=None):
     	result = wrapper(inst, self.method)
     	setattr(inst, self.method.__name__, result)
         return result

class wrapper:
     def __init__(self, inst, method):
         self.instance = inst
         self.method = method

     def __call__(self, *args, **kargs):
         print 'pre'
         result = apply(self.method, (self.instance,) + args, kargs)
         print 'post'
         return result

def test():
     class C:
         def f(self, arg):
             print 'in f'
             return arg+1
         f = MethodWraper(f)

     c = C()
     print c.f(1)

if __name__=='__main__':
     test()
------


From donn at drizzle.com  Fri Apr  9 01:09:28 2004
From: donn at drizzle.com (Donn Cave)
Date: Fri, 09 Apr 2004 05:09:28 -0000
Subject: why is python better than eg. smalltalk?? no one has any solid
	arguments! you should all go to church with all that religious talk!
References: <20031028061245.12451.00000133@mb-m01.aol.com>
	<mailman.237.1067515722.702.python-list@python.org>
	<opr53783cbmyya52@news.kadnet.dom>
	<n26gk1-09e1.ln1@eskimo.tundraware.com>
Message-ID: <1081487366.538219@yasure>

Quoth Tim Daneliuk <tundra at tundraware.com>:
...
| My view on Python's real virtue from several years ago:
|
| http://www.tundraware.com/Technology/Python-Is-Middleware/

What do you think now, several years later, about `A Little Warning'
at the end of that page?

	Donn Cave, donn at drizzle.com


From dwimansjur at hotmail.com  Thu Apr 29 15:07:47 2004
From: dwimansjur at hotmail.com (Dwi Sianto Mansjur)
Date: 29 Apr 2004 12:07:47 -0700
Subject: PYTHONSTARTUP and Cygwin
Message-ID: <9c1c646f.0404291107.5a6137dc@posting.google.com>

I tried to set up PYTHONPATH in cygwin but it doesn't work.
Any clue why ?
The following is my session.

$ echo $PYTHONPATH
/home/Cherna/86_DevelopingTools:/home/Cherna/87_TestingCorpus

$ echo $PYTHONSTARTUP
/home/Cherna/86_DevelopingTools:/home/Cherna/87_TestingCorpus

$ python
Python 2.3.3 (#1, Dec 30 2003, 08:29:25) 
[GCC 3.3.1 (cygming special)] on cygwin
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> import sys
>>> sys.path
['', '/usr/lib/python23.zip', '/usr/lib/python2.3',
'/usr/lib/python2.3/plat-cygwin', '/usr/lib/python2.3/lib-tk',
'/usr/lib/python2.3/lib-dynload', '/usr/lib/python2.3/site-packages',
'/usr/lib/python2.3/site-packages/Numeric']

thanks.


From pinard at iro.umontreal.ca  Sat Apr 24 14:44:49 2004
From: pinard at iro.umontreal.ca (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Fran=E7ois?= Pinard)
Date: Sat, 24 Apr 2004 14:44:49 -0400
Subject: CamelCase versus wide_names (Prothon)
In-Reply-To: <pan.2004.04.24.03.42.47.981@hotmail.com>
References: <UHxfc.9323$dZ1.3740@fed1read04>
	<6e0680ac.0404211252.7f7b4358@posting.google.com>
	<4086DFA7.9736E7D3@alcyone.com>
	<roy-15454C.18080121042004@reader2.panix.com>
	<PdEhc.19536$dZ1.11964@fed1read04>
	<slrnc8hluh.s60.apardon@trout.vub.ac.be>
	<nkcic.28282$dZ1.27269@fed1read04>
	<pan.2004.04.24.03.42.47.981@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <20040424184449.GA19032@alcyon.progiciels-bpi.ca>

[Paramjit Oberoi]
> If the language 'knew' that identifiers potentially consisted of
> multiple words [...]

There are not many places in Python syntax where we may have many
identifiers in a row.  One of the places is for allowing `as' within the
`import' statement without making `as' a reserved word.

However, this approach would allow an arbitrary amount and kind of white
space between the successive words of a single identifier.  Who knows,
it might be good nevertheless?

-- 
Fran?ois Pinard   http://www.iro.umontreal.ca/~pinard



From _google at benjiyork.com  Wed Apr 21 15:32:46 2004
From: _google at benjiyork.com (Benji York)
Date: 21 Apr 2004 12:32:46 -0700
Subject: Optimizing a text statistics function
References: <c661pe$tie$1@f1node01.rhrz.uni-bonn.de>
Message-ID: <e9a98d04.0404211132.4ce1b1fa@posting.google.com>

Nickolay Kolev <nmkolev at uni-bonn.de> wrote in message news:<c661pe$tie$1 at f1node01.rhrz.uni-bonn.de>...
> I find the two loops through the initial list a bit troubling. Could 
> this be avoided?

How about instead of:

for x in strippedWords:
    unique[x] = 0

for x in strippedWords:
    unique[x] += 1

You do something like (untested):

for word in strippedWords:
    unique[word] = unique.get(word, 0) + 1

--
Benji York
http://benjiyork.com


From mark at prothon.org  Fri Apr 23 01:30:57 2004
From: mark at prothon.org (Mark Hahn)
Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2004 22:30:57 -0700
Subject: Why we will use obj$func() often
References: <d2Uhc.22272$dZ1.1600@fed1read04> <84Uhc.22278$dZ1.5087@fed1read04>
	<mailman.927.1082665370.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<8AWhc.23114$dZ1.11070@fed1read04> <40883BFE.B381518A@alcyone.com>
	<27_hc.23801$dZ1.2716@fed1read04> <40887145.789A2FE8@alcyone.com>
	<x60ic.23986$dZ1.13511@fed1read04>
	<slrnc8h667.ahh.bignose-hates-spam@iris.polar.local>
Message-ID: <lS1ic.25535$dZ1.24380@fed1read04>


"Ben Finney" <bignose-hates-spam at and-benfinney-does-too.id.au> wrote ...

> Please understand what an ad hominem attack is before accusing others of
> using it, thank you very much:

What did I do?  Prothon is accused of looking like Perl (which I mistakenly
took as an ad hominem slur, but now I see that he was serious) and I am
accused of not knowing the English language (even though I have degrees from
both Stanford University and Princeton University).

I guess I'll go back to the Prothon mailing lists with my tail between my
legs....




From detlev at die-offenbachs.de  Sat Apr  3 07:57:27 2004
From: detlev at die-offenbachs.de (Detlev Offenbach)
Date: Sat, 03 Apr 2004 14:57:27 +0200
Subject: ANN: eric3 3.4 released
Message-ID: <auo2k1-r03.ln1@stargate.solsys.priv>

Hi,

I have just uploaded the new release of eric3 (version 3.4). This release
features the following enhancements compared to version 3.3.1.

- It comes with it's own source documentation generator.
- Support for Quixote PTL files.
- Capability to generate various UML-like diagrams from the source code.
- Interface to the cyclops cycles finder (a copy of cyclops is included).
- Import/Export of keyboard shortcuts.
- A QRegExp and a Python regexp wizard.

a bunch of smaller usability enhancements, lots of bug fixes and internal
changes.

It is available via http://www.die-offenbachs.de/detlev/eric3.html.

Upgrade notice: Starting with this release only XML project files are
supported. Please make sure to save existing project in the XML format
before installing the new release. Alternatively you may download a
conevrsion tool from the contributions page.

What is it?
-----------
Eric 3.4 (or short eric3) is a Python IDE written using PyQt and 
QScintilla. It has integrated project management capabilities, it gives 
you an unlimited number of editors, an integrated Python shell, an 
integrated debugger and much more.

Please see for yourself by visiting the a.m. page (it contains a picture 
of Eric our mascot as well).

Please report bugs, feature wishes or code contributions to 
eric-bugs at die-offenbachs.de

Help wanted!!
-------------
I really need some support in the area of more translations and user 
documentation. Any volunteers out there? Just let me know.

Regards,Detlev
-- 
Detlev Offenbach
detlev at die-offenbachs.de


From rynt at 9yahoo.com  Wed Apr 14 12:52:15 2004
From: rynt at 9yahoo.com (R Baumann)
Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2004 09:52:15 -0700
Subject: wxPython wxWidgets font - boaConstructor
References: <mailman.608.1081937463.20120.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <107qr20smd27lc3@corp.supernews.com>


"Raphael Badin" <raphael.badin at sopinspace.com> wrote in message
news:mailman.608.1081937463.20120.python-list at python.org...
> Hi,
>
>         I'am having trouble with boa-contructor (and all other python IDE
using
> wxWidgets) and the central editor window (the main one, where the python
> code is) - menu are ok. The font is ugly (alising & co) and almost
> unreadable ... I'm on linux within the KDE environnement ...
>         Has anyone solved such an issue ?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Raphael
>

Take a look at the Help and Open Discussion forums on the Boa Source Forge
Project page.  If you can't get the answer there, leave a message on one of
them, or email Riaan Booysen.  I believe your problem may have been covered
in the forums.

HTH
Ruben

>




From grante at visi.com  Wed Apr 28 09:49:25 2004
From: grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards)
Date: 28 Apr 2004 13:49:25 GMT
Subject: Don't understand wxPython ids
References: <408ed938$0$17263$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
	<BOEjc.12559$eZ5.4366@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>
	<408f3061$0$17258$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
	<zCJjc.12791$eZ5.2682@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <408fb665$0$17264$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>

On 2004-04-28, Greg Krohn <greg at invalid.invalid> wrote:

>> The few situations where I'd have wanted to do someting like
>> that I'd gladly put a for-loop iterating over a list of
>> objects in exchange for being able to use single-line of code
>> the other 90% of the time.
>
> Ditto. You'd think it wouldn't be so hard to add a kwarg for it. At 
> least if it's something you can add on the Python side. Hmmm.

I guess it's simple enough to subclass the widgets I use and
add one, but it feels like going to buy a new car and having to
bring your own steering wheel.

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow!  Wow! Look!! A stray
                                  at               meatball!! Let's interview
                               visi.com            it!


From sean_berry at cox.net  Sun Apr 25 21:45:44 2004
From: sean_berry at cox.net (Sean Berry)
Date: Sun, 25 Apr 2004 18:45:44 -0700
Subject: Help a newbie revise my program
Message-ID: <5SZic.98241$U83.18636@fed1read03>

My program is used by an applet to look up items in a mysql database.
It is a "smart program".  By that I mean it returns different results based
on
the arguments from the URL.  Like,
www.domain.com/cgi-bin/getModels?shaped=5&sized=7

It works well enough.  However, I would like to find out better ways to do
some of the things I am doing,
such as getting the variable values from the URL.

Here is my code:

#!/usr/local/bin/python

import MySQLdb, os
db=MySQLdb.connect(db="aquatics")
c=db.cursor()
d = ()
di = {}
x = []
li2 = []

def getVars():
 if len(os.environ["QUERY_STRING"]) > 0:
  val_list = os.environ["QUERY_STRING"].split("&")
  for item in val_list:
   templi = item.split("=")
   li2.append(templi)
  return li2
 else:
  return []

x = getVars()
if len(x) > 0:
 di = dict(x)
sql = """SELECT code from models"""

if 'sized' and 'shaped' in di:
 sql =  sql + """ where size like '%s%%' and shape=%s order by code"""
%(di['sized'], di['shaped'])
elif di.has_key('shaped'):
 sql = sql + """ where shape=%s order by code""" %di['shaped']
elif di.has_key('size'):
 sizevalue = di['sized']
 sql =  sql + """ where size like '%s%%' order by code""" %di['sized']

c.execute("%s" %sql)
d=c.fetchall()
for type in d:
 print "<option>" + type[0] "+</option>\n"

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

Thanks in advance for any help.





From billybugmaster at yahoo.com  Mon Apr 12 17:41:56 2004
From: billybugmaster at yahoo.com (nick)
Date: 12 Apr 2004 14:41:56 -0700
Subject: OO Bug needs squashing
Message-ID: <35f7b657.0404121341.6acb8a52@posting.google.com>

Ok I'm more than willing to admit it's probably me but I am struggling
with what appears to be a weird scope issue.

If you look at the code below I believe day 2 should only contain a
single event. But when you run the prog it prints the events from day
1 as well.

Any advice greatly appreciated.

class Day:
	name = None
	events = []
	eventD = {}

class Event:
	start = ''
	end = ''
	desc = ''

def loadMonth():
	#Create Day one
	day1 = Day()
	day1.name = 'day1'

	#Create first event for day one
	event1 = Event()
	event1.start = '10:00'
	event1.end = '12:00'
	event1.desc = 'event1'
	day1.events.append(event1)
	
	#Create second event for day one
	event2 = Event()
	event2.start = '14:00'
	event2.end = '16:00'
	event2.desc = 'event2'
	day1.events.append(event2)
	
	#Create a second day
	day2 = Day()
	day2.name = 'day2'

	#Create a single event for day two
	event3 = Event()
	event3.start = '10:00'
	event3.end = '12:00'
	event3.desc = 'event3'
	day2.events.append(event3)
	
	#print day names to show they are different days
	print day1.name
	print day2.name

	#print events for day 2 ONLY and it shows all day one as well ??????
	for event in day2.events:
		print event.desc
	

if __name__ == '__main__':
	loadMonth()


From __peter__ at web.de  Thu Apr  8 02:47:15 2004
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Thu, 08 Apr 2004 08:47:15 +0200
Subject: Dynamic creation of an object instance of a class by name
References: <10f99b0f.0404070656.5960e2c8@posting.google.com>
	<tyfk70rx044.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
	<mailman.435.1081378579.20120.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <c52shj$ffm$02$1@news.t-online.com>

Andre Meyer wrote:

> Right, ok, well, I do not assume to know what classes can be instantiated,
> thus anything like accessing globals() is not likely to help, sorry. The
> eval() version works pretty ok so far. I am develpoing a module of which
> other people can make use of by developing their own subclasses, but they
> need to be instantiated by my code. Eval() does the trick for me or is
> there a better way, assuming you do not need to know which class it might
> be beforehand? btw I LOVE dynamicity... ;-)

You have to pass the name of the subclasses to your module somehow for your
code to know what to instantiate. Why don't you pass the subclasses
themselves instead?

Peter



From mauriceling at acm.org  Mon Apr 26 21:18:56 2004
From: mauriceling at acm.org (Maurice LING)
Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2004 01:18:56 GMT
Subject: Compiler
In-Reply-To: <hs-dnd24VPrHPBDdRVn-hQ@powergate.ca>
References: <q6gjc.1945$VA1.1741@doctor.cableinet.net>
	<hs-dnd24VPrHPBDdRVn-hQ@powergate.ca>
Message-ID: <408db4fb$1@news.unimelb.edu.au>

Peter Hansen wrote:
> Steven wrote:
> 
>> Just curious, is there a python compiler?
>> Or something that creates bytecode, like java?
> 
> 
> Yes.  They are the same thing.  Javac compiles Java source
> to Java bytecode.  C compilers compile C source to
> machine-specific bytecode (called machine code).  Python
> compiles Python source to Python bytecode.  The main
> difference is that Python does this transparently behind
> your back whenever the source has change, while many other
> languages that do it require a separate manual step...
> 
> -Peter

hi,

i was wondering just how different is the python bytecode from the java 
bytecode? is there a specification for python virtual machine or sort? i 
can foresee a lot of interesting projects and uses that can stem from 
this specification.

maurice


From thorsten at thorstenkampe.de  Wed Apr 28 18:55:33 2004
From: thorsten at thorstenkampe.de (Thorsten Kampe)
Date: Thu, 29 Apr 2004 00:55:33 +0200
Subject: sorting the list by inner elements
References: <f046efac.0403240543.65a49ba1@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <793mu670iloa.dlg@thorstenkampe.de>

Catching up old stuff...

* ketulp_baroda at yahoo.com (2004-03-24 15:43 +0100)
>  I want to sort the list,the form of my list is
> 
>   name_city_list=[['jack','new york'],['mac','london'],['alice','paris']]
> 
> all inner list has same format i.e first is name and second is city.
> now I want to sort it by the second element of the inner list(by city name).
> 
> i.e after sorting my list should be like this
> 
>   name_city_list=[['mac','london'],['jack','new york'],['alice','paris']]

You need a general function sort:

def funcsort(seq, func):
    """ sort seq by func(item) """
    seq = seq[:]
    seq.sort(lambda x, y: cmp(func(x), func(y)))
    return seq

funcsort(name_city_list, lambda x: x[1])


From info at codestreets.com  Sun Apr 18 02:50:40 2004
From: info at codestreets.com (CodeStreets.com)
Date: Sunday, 18 Apr 2004 02:50:40
Subject: New scripts directory
Message-ID: <e9ba28da-e029-4e1a-8239-bf45faf859ca@IETF.ORG>

Hi,

We would like to announce a new scripts directory website - http://www.codestreets.com - and we invite you to add your scripts. It's FREE.

Best regards,

Vlad
www.codestreets.com
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From donn at u.washington.edu  Tue Apr 20 18:50:58 2004
From: donn at u.washington.edu (Donn Cave)
Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 15:50:58 -0700
Subject: here document as script and read from stdin
References: <408596DE.10004@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk>
Message-ID: <donn-4E1C46.15505720042004@nntp4.u.washington.edu>

In article <408596DE.10004 at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk>,
 Robin Becker <robin at SPAMREMOVEjessikat.fsnet.co.uk> wrote:

> Is it possible to use python with a shell HERE document as the script 
> and read the standard input? In other words make python usable as a 
> filter with a side input?
> 
> It doesn't seem to be obvous unless I can somehow use the -c option.

Use "-" as the name of the file - e.g.,

 python - << 'EOT'
 import sys
 print sys.argv
 EOT

   Donn Cave, donn at u.washington.edu


From dkgunter at lbl.gov  Fri Apr 30 22:52:44 2004
From: dkgunter at lbl.gov (Dan Gunter)
Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2004 19:52:44 -0700
Subject: calling functions at the same time
In-Reply-To: <z_Dkc.43311$_Y4.15306@newssvr29.news.prodigy.com>
References: <c6udda$qpv$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu>
	<z_Dkc.43311$_Y4.15306@newssvr29.news.prodigy.com>
Message-ID: <409310FC.5030903@lbl.gov>

asdf sdf wrote:
> bart_nessux wrote:
> 
>> I need a script to call several functions at the same time. How does 
>> one call more than one function simultaneously?
>>
>>
>>
> i just added my first thread to a wxpython program today.  simple. in 
> fact my first threaded program of any kind.
> 
> as indicated, threads might help you.  you didn't mention your platform 
> but probably it has real thread support.  nevertheless, this might not 
> be for you if you are running in a Unix environment with a 
> multiprocessing (forking) program.
> 
> you launch your threads:
> 
> import thread
> 
> # create a lock you can use to block the threads until you are ready
> mymutex = thread.allocate_lock()
> 
> def MyConcurrentFunction():
>     # important concurrent stuff
>     pass
> 
> def ThreadThing():
>     # thread will hang on 'acquire' until mutex is released
>     mymutex.acquire()
>     # release lock for the next thread
>     mymutex.release()
>     # now do your stuff
>     MyConcurrentFunction()
> 
> mymutex.acquire()
> # launch your threads
> thread.start_new_thread(ThreadThing, ())
> thread.start_new_thread(ThreadThing, ())
> thread.start_new_thread(ThreadThing, ())...
> # your threads are all hung on the 'acquire' statement
> # release the lock, unblocking the threads
> mymutex.release()
> # now all your threads are grabbing and releasing the mutex
> 
> # all done
> 
> I just made that whole thing up.  But i think that's more or less how 
> you launch threads.
> 
> you have to consider that the thread may run as soon as you launch it. 
> each thread could complete your special function before the rest of the 
> threads get launched.
> 
> i think you address that problem by creating a mutex or semaphore that 
> each thread must acquire before it can proceed.  That is, the thread 
> will block (hang) waiting for the mutex to become available.  (think of 
> a mutex as an abstract lock resource).  when all your threads are 
> launched, the main program can release the mutex(es), unblocking the 
> threads.  The threads will unhang, and do your concurrent thing, more or 
> less concurrently.
> 
> Understand that concurrency is not guaranteed (as i understand it).  the 
>   OS controls which thread runs when, and it is not deterministic.
> 
> you could use an list of mutexes, to get an iota more concurrency.
> 
> all this i learned this very day from Programming Python, pg 104. so 
> take my advice with a shovel of salt.
> 
> but it sounds like the way to go to me.
> 
> 

try using threading instead of thread, it's a higher level interface. 
for example, something like this:

import threading
def ping(a): print "ping",a
args=[[1],[2],[3],[4]]
threads=[]
for i in range(0,4):
     threads.append(threading.Thread(target=ping, args=args[i]))
     threads[-1].start()
for i in range(0,4):
     threads[i].join()



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From sdahlbacSPAMSUX at abo.fi  Tue Apr 13 13:39:15 2004
From: sdahlbacSPAMSUX at abo.fi (Simon Dahlbacka)
Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2004 20:39:15 +0300
Subject: refcounting 
Message-ID: <407c25ca$1@newsflash.abo.fi>

I'm making a C extension where I'm wrapping a C function like follows

void MyFunction(/*[in,out]*/ ArrayType array)

to

a python function taking a list as inparameter and returning a list (for
consistency with other pointer arguments)

Now to the question..

I'm a little confused about the reference counting..

static PyObject* MyFunction(PyObject * /*self*/, PyObject *args) {

PyObject *list;
PyArg_ParseTuple(args, &PyList_Type, &list);

//do stuff with list elements

// XXX do I need Py_INCREF(list); here ???
return list;
}

obviously error checking is omitted for brevity.

PS. are there any documentation explaining the reference counting issues in
more detail than the docs @ python.org ?




From encolpe at colpi.info  Thu Apr 22 18:42:17 2004
From: encolpe at colpi.info (Encolpe DEGOUTE)
Date: 22 Apr 2004 22:42:17 GMT
Subject: Paris python user group?
References: <408795ee$0$25893$79c14f64@nan-newsreader-02.noos.net>
Message-ID: <slrnc8gii9.ul8.encolpe@fleurbleue.in.colpi.info>

[Follow-up in fr.comp.lang.python]
Dans fr.comp.lang.python, francois lepoutre ?crivit:
> Hi all french speaking, Paris-based python users,
> Bonjour ? tous les utilisateurs parisiens de python,
>
> How many are we to use python in the *Paris* Area?
> Enough to build some community life?
>
> Combien sommes nous ? utiliser python sur Paris?
> Assez pour monter une assoc?

There is some Zope based corporation in Paris, then I think there is
enough developers to do it. Post an [AAG] on http://zopera.org .

Il y a un certains nombres d'entreprise qui travaillent sur Zope ?
Paris, donc je pense qu'il y a les d?veloppeurs qui correspondent.
Poster un [AAG] sur http://zopera.org cela devrait rameuter du monde.

Cordialement,
[N'oubliez pas le suivi]
-- 
Encolpe DEGOUTE
http://colpi.info
Logiciels libres, hockey sur glace et autres activit?s c?r?brales


From insert at spam.here  Sat Apr 10 15:16:09 2004
From: insert at spam.here (Doug Holton)
Date: Sat, 10 Apr 2004 14:16:09 -0500
Subject: recording sound from mic in Windows?
In-Reply-To: <4077f42a@news.broadpark.no>
References: <4077f42a@news.broadpark.no>
Message-ID: <47Odnfqtpvxn2uXdRVn-tw@comcast.com>

Jorg R?dsj? wrote:

 > I looking for a way to record a voice with a microphone and save the
 > recording in wav format using python.
 >
 > Does anybody know any module which would let me do this?
 >
 > This is for a school project where we are going to use this recording to
 > send voice-messages to cell-phones
 >
 > regards
 > Jorg R?dsj?

Hi, there isn't a standard python module for recording sound, but
here are some code samples:
http://www.johnnypops.demon.co.uk/python/
http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/2002-February/089037.html
http://picket.8m.com/programs/ (MCIinterface)
http://www.speech.kth.se/snack/

If you have any problems getting it to work for you, just post here again.


From andrew.henshaw at gtri.gatech.edu  Fri Apr  9 07:15:16 2004
From: andrew.henshaw at gtri.gatech.edu (Andrew Henshaw)
Date: Fri, 09 Apr 2004 07:15:16 -0400
Subject: Bug in struct.calcsize() ?
References: <mailman.471.1081468374.20120.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <107d1efk77l1v3a@corp.supernews.com>

James Lamanna wrote:

> Noticed this under 2.3.3:
> 
> struct.calcsize('H') => 2
> struct.calcsize('BBB') => 3
> struct.calcsize('BBBH') => 6
> 
> Umm, shouldn't 'BBBH' return 5?
> 
> Please CC me for I am not subscribed.
> 
I'll also post here (for the benefit of others that might google for this
question).

In the struct documentation, there is a table for byte order and alignment. 
Providing one of the characters '@=><!' as the first character of your
string specifies the byte order and alignment behavior.  Since your string
doesn't specify one, then native byte order and alignment are assumed.  In
this case, your C compiler aligns 16-bit ints to a 16-bit boundary.  To
pack without padding, use '=' as the first character.

struct.calcsize('=BBBH') => 5

-- 
Andy


From skip at pobox.com  Tue Apr 27 13:33:10 2004
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2004 12:33:10 -0500
Subject: Is Perl *that* good?
In-Reply-To: <roy-830B7D.08351627042004@reader2.panix.com>
References: <c6ich0$c5mee$1@ID-205437.news.uni-berlin.de>
	<iL3jc.232$Yc.2330@news4.e.nsc.no>
	<108q51j4dscn7dc@corp.supernews.com>
	<knbjc.267$id.3998@news2.e.nsc.no>
	<pan.2004.04.26.20.50.19.843510@hotmail.com>
	<87fzaqmm8t.fsf@strauser.com>
	<38ec68a6.0404262308.50029919@posting.google.com>
	<du765bles9i.fsf@lehtori.cc.tut.fi>
	<roy-830B7D.08351627042004@reader2.panix.com>
Message-ID: <16526.39254.292379.413894@montanaro.dyndns.org>


    Roy> For the occasional ad-hoc match, this is fine.  The advantage of
    Roy> pre-compiling is that it's faster, since it doesn't have to
    Roy> recompile the regex each time.

    Roy> I don't see anything in the reference manual which says re.match() 
    Roy> caches compilations, but I suspect it does.

Yup, every call does.  I believe the only time you really need to compile
them is if you have more than 100 different regular expressions.  In this
case the caching code clears the cache when the threshold is reached instead
of just picking a random few elements to toss (which seems like a mistake to
me but one that should rarely be encountered).  Look in sre.py at _compile()
and _MAXCACHE.

Skip



From sholden at holdenweb.com  Fri Apr 30 13:51:45 2004
From: sholden at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2004 13:51:45 -0400
Subject: How to read a file from another server?  Newbie
In-Reply-To: <BNikc.33253$Jy3.2239@fed1read03>
References: <%Oejc.16$ph.9@fed1read07>
	<9ugjc.3709$g31.1370@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net>
	<c6k9fh$3t9$1@bagan.srce.hr> <Yyjjc.2071$Jy3.1146@fed1read03>
	<v4hkc.4707$wY.813@nwrdny03.gnilink.net>
	<BNikc.33253$Jy3.2239@fed1read03>
Message-ID: <40929231.2090807@holdenweb.com>

Sean Berry wrote:

> I have resolved the issue.  I am just going to run the cgi script from the
> server the file is on.  If anyone out there is interested I am getting close
> to finishing a script that does recursive digs for MX, A, and NS records for
> a given domain, or list of domains.
> 
> Sean
> 
Without in any way wishing to rain on your parade, dnspython 
(http://www.dnspython.org/) is great for all DNS functionality.

regards
  Steve


From shalabh at cafepy.com  Fri Apr  9 20:40:22 2004
From: shalabh at cafepy.com (Shalabh Chaturvedi)
Date: Fri, 09 Apr 2004 17:40:22 -0700
Subject: List vs tuples
References: <c54cjb$5fs$1@planja.arnes.si> <107bf8q8fhsmg5e@news.supernews.com>
	<7in05lfpqt.fsf@enark.csis.hku.hk>
	<107d52rib5bfrd7@news.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <c57fks$qe9$1@sea.gmane.org>

John Roth wrote:

> 
> "Isaac To" <kkto at csis.hku.hk> wrote in message
> 
>> If getTime() give you a list instead, then [hours, minute, second] =
>> getTime() would still give you the hours, minute and second variables
>> assigned.
> 
> True. Again, so what? The basic conceptual issue, which
> Don Cave explained much better than I did, is that any
> subsequence of a list is of the same *conceptual* type as the
> list itself. A subset of the fields of a struct is not of the same
> conceptual type as the original struct. You cannot take the
> third element of that time tuple and claim it is the same type
> (a time of day) as the original.


Hmm...so lists are like ham. Slice it up, dice it up, and you still have
ham. Whereas tuples are more like eggs. Break it and you end up with some
pieces of shell, some yolk, some white and probably a big mess.

Also, if you wanted more ham in your sandwitch, just add another slice and
now you have a 'bigger' piece of ham. But if you wanted a bigger egg, you'd
have to start out.. oh well this is going too far :)

Enjoy!
Shalabh




From NAIGIMSESRIMAIL at gims.com  Thu Apr  1 07:13:01 2004
From: NAIGIMSESRIMAIL at gims.com (GroupShield for Exchange (ESRIMAIL))
Date: Thu, 1 Apr 2004 14:13:01 +0200 
Subject: ALERT -  GroupShield ticket number OB71_1080821573_ESRIMAIL_3 was
	generated
Message-ID: <B06B8FEF47ACD7119E720040F428459102124D17@ESRIMAIL>

Action Taken:
The message was blocked because of its subject.

To:
python-list at python.org <python-list at python.org>

From:
Peter Maas <fpetermaas at netscape.net>

Sent:
-1468231552,29628386

Subject:
Re: test for nan

Attachment Details:-

Attachment Name: N/A
File: Infected.msg
Infected? No
Repaired? No
Blocked? Yes
Deleted? No
Virus Name: 



	
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From grante at visi.com  Wed Apr  7 19:04:34 2004
From: grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards)
Date: 07 Apr 2004 23:04:34 GMT
Subject: surface fitting library for Python?
Message-ID: <40748902$0$17253$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>

I'm looking for a surface fitting library for Python. 

Something like the least-squares module in scientific python,
except I want to fit a surface (z = f(x,y)) instead of a curve
(y = f(x)).

I found a couple other curve fitting libraries (some are
wrappers to C/Fortran libs I don't have), and I found a
curve and surface-fitting web page (www.zuzun.com) that's
written in Python -- I found a couple postings by James R.
Phillips (zunzun's author) and I suspect he's calling a
non-Python library of some sort.

What's the recommended method for doing surface fitting in
Python?

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow!  In Newark the
                                  at               laundromats are open 24
                               visi.com            hours a day!


From richie at entrian.com  Wed Apr  7 05:39:35 2004
From: richie at entrian.com (Richie Hindle)
Date: Wed, 07 Apr 2004 10:39:35 +0100
Subject: Obfuscator, EXE, etc. - a solution
In-Reply-To: <1jPcc.41986$oR5.1890@pd7tw3no>
References: <1jPcc.41986$oR5.1890@pd7tw3no>
Message-ID: <isi770polrpcaflnkltidemh5unqcolc4p@4ax.com>


[Jason]
> the increase in speed of execution is very obvious.

That's interesting - you mean you get a significant increase in speed even
without using Pyrex's 'cdef' feature?

(Not trying to hijack the thread - I mostly agree with your main point, but
 I have nothing to add.)

-- 
Richie Hindle
richie at entrian.com




From claird at lairds.com  Mon Apr 26 12:44:50 2004
From: claird at lairds.com (Cameron Laird)
Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2004 16:44:50 -0000
Subject: Is Perl *that* good? (was: How's ruby compare to it older bro
References: <mailman.18.1082989111.25742.python-list@python.org>
	<c6jcf5$mfv$2@news.ox.ac.uk> <2tOdna6S8a4pqxDdRVn_iw@powergate.ca>
	<c6jdsu$n1j$1@news.ox.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <108qf42r54jld3f@corp.supernews.com>

In article <c6jdsu$n1j$1 at news.ox.ac.uk>,
leeg  <leeg at teaching.physics.ox.ac.uk.valid> wrote:
			.
			.
			.
>OK, fair enough.  In that case, there is no reason for me to be using Python
>(except that it's easy to write and easy to read, which is good enough for
>me).  I use POSIX-ey stuff and interfaces to lumps of code written in other
>languages, so Python could be Perl or Objective-C or C or Pascal or
>anything as far as I care; I just happen to be able to write correct code
>fairly quickly in Python.  I hope that makes sense :-)
			.
			.
			.
So we're concluding that people use most languages because they
must, to access some specific curd of functionality, but Python
is different, and simply doesn't get in the way?  How flattering!
-- 

Cameron Laird <claird at phaseit.net>
Business:  http://www.Phaseit.net


From len-1 at telus.net  Wed Apr  7 15:32:40 2004
From: len-1 at telus.net (Lenard Lindstrom)
Date: Wed, 07 Apr 2004 19:32:40 GMT
Subject: Using function parameters to determine method kind
References: <4qrzym6e.fsf@telus.net>
	<95aa1afa.0404050417.2d11b369@posting.google.com>
	<8yh9r7p2.fsf@telus.net>
	<95aa1afa.0404060309.32629338@posting.google.com>
	<u0zwyeq2.fsf@telus.net>
	<95aa1afa.0404070018.c28b43b@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <4qrvbncx.fsf@telus.net>

In reply Michele Simionato's <michele.simionato at poste.it> posting:
      <95aa1afa.0404070018.c28b43b at posting.google.com>

I apologize that my replies are becoming more difficult to understand.
It is just that I have had to rethink a few things regarding my
initial proposal. So I will just start fresh here.

When I first posted my question on using a function's first parameter
to determine method kind I had a very specific idea on how to
implement it in Python. Type function becomes subtypable and several
builtin subtypes are made available. The root type has no __get__
descriptor method so is a static method by nature. It has two subtypes
having __get__ methods: an instancefunction is what we now call FunctionType,
and a classfunction. A function's first parameter determines which type
is created at function declaration:

def fs(x): pass # I am a static function
def fi(self): pass # I am an instance function
def fc(cls): pass # I am a class function

If the first parameter is neither 'self' or 'cls' the function
is static by default.

Of course no such scheme is worth proposing if it breaks too much
existing code. Therefore the posting to comp.lang.python. I can
imagine serious breakage only if instance methods are customarily
declared without a first argument 'self'. Instance methods are the
only case where a function's __get__ method matters. In every other
case the function is wrapped in some descriptor class instance
and the function is called directly as an unbound method.
Unfortunately there is an exception to the 'self' naming convension:
the __init__ and __new__ methods of a metaclass. I hoped they were somehow
handled differently from the usual __init__ and __new__ calls of object
instance creation, but they are not. So the 'self' coding convension
has exceptions. I am now convinced my original idea is impractical.

My example module 'dparams.py' uses a metaclass to wrap functions in
staticmethod or classmethod descriptors at class creation,
but I consider this a less than ideal solution. And to implement
it in Python means that 'object' can no longer be of type 'type'.
I believe this is unacceptable. So I consider the issue of using
parameters to determine method kind closed.

>> All this talk about python functions just being another kind
>> of descriptor makes me wonder if it is not time to revive
>> the idea of having type function subclassable:
>
>You may want to look at this thread:
>
>http://groups.google.it/groups?hl=it&lr=&ie=UTF-8&threadm=95aa1afa.0402262158.5b33de79%40posting.google.com&rnum=1&prev=/groups%3Fhl%3Dit%26lr%3D%26ie%3DISO-8859-1%26q%3Dsimionato%2Bfeature%2Brequest%26btnG%3DCerca%2Bcon%2BGoogle%26meta%3Dgroup%253Dcomp.lang.python.*

I was actually being somewhat serious. It is just the syntax of:

def foo(x):
    __factory__ = staticfunction

that is questionable.

def(staticfunction) foo(x):
    ...

may be more appropriate.

As for that thread you mentioned in you posting on subtyping
FunctionType, here it is:

http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&threadm=mailman.1048519782.21597.python-list%40python.org&rnum=1&prev=/groups%3Fq%3Dgroup:comp.lang.python%2Binsubject:function%2Binsubject:type%2Binsubject:not%26hl%3Den%26lr%3D%26ie%3DUTF-8%26oe%3DUTF-8%26selm%3Dmailman.1048519782.21597.python-list%2540python.org%26rnum%3D1

I actually did make FunctionType subtypable in a prerelease
version of python 2.3 and it did not crash or act strange.
At the time I made the above posting I was playing with function
currying and tried to extend FunctionType by adding some curry
operators. It didn't work:

"TypeError: type 'function' is not an acceptable base type"

But as the thread continued my ideas on function currying changed
and it seemed less important to subtype function, so my postings stop
making a lot of sense; it became more important to me to have
a consistent way of doing introspection on callables. I made
FunctionType subtypable just to prove a point. I was a
stranger to the Python community and the Unix diff and patch
tools so I did not try to submit a patch. The interpreter has
since dissappeared into my trashbin as newer releases of Python
can out. But if there is enough interest and I have the time I
may try and do it again.

Lenard Lindstrom
<len-l at telus.net>


From greg at cosc.canterbury.ac.nz  Sun Apr 25 22:53:01 2004
From: greg at cosc.canterbury.ac.nz (Greg Ewing)
Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2004 14:53:01 +1200
Subject: Why we will use obj$func() often
In-Reply-To: <donn-270E17.13213023042004@nntp4.u.washington.edu>
References: <d2Uhc.22272$dZ1.1600@fed1read04>
	<mailman.939.1082697809.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<no4ic.26268$dZ1.11413@fed1read04>
	<mailman.948.1082710758.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<sXcic.28630$dZ1.20194@fed1read04>
	<mailman.975.1082746267.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<donn-270E17.13213023042004@nntp4.u.washington.edu>
Message-ID: <c6htif$c0592$1@ID-169208.news.uni-berlin.de>

Donn Cave wrote:
> I remember VMS library functions like RMS$PARSE etc.
> This basically goes along with the argument above - it's
> a single identifier, $ is not punctuation.

Also traditional Basic with A$, B$, etc. There, too, the
$ is considered part of the name -- A was a different
variable from A$, etc.

It seems to work best when the identifier is all upper
case, though. Putting $ amongst lower-case letters looks
goofier.

-- 
Greg Ewing, Computer Science Dept,
University of Canterbury,	
Christchurch, New Zealand
http://www.cosc.canterbury.ac.nz/~greg



From matthewleslie at hotmail.com  Tue Apr 27 12:14:27 2004
From: matthewleslie at hotmail.com (Matt Leslie)
Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2004 11:14:27 -0500
Subject: Intercepting method calls
Message-ID: <c6m0nv$3ie$1@info4.fnal.gov>

I want to write a package to simulate a distributed system with objects 
at various locations interacting with each other. What I'd like to do is 
simulate network delays between distant objects using an event queue.

That is, when I call A.B(foo), I want this call to be intercepted 
somehow, and the call to B added to a central event queue thread, and is 
called later, possibly after other previously enqued method calls. The 
central queue would also do some accounting to keep track of things like 
messages sent, message size, etc.

The idea is that you just write these objects as if they were local 
objects communicating normally, and all the network simulation is done 
for you transparently - perhaps by some 'NetworkObject' superclass.

I took a look at the language reference and it is not immediately clear 
to me how or if I could do this in Python, perhaps I need to override 
the __call__ methods for all the instancemethods in the class? I'm not 
even sure how I could do this... Any help or suggestions appreciated.

Thanks,
	Matt


From mskim at hurim.net  Tue Apr  6 20:26:01 2004
From: mskim at hurim.net (=?ks_c_5601-1987?B?sei47bz2?=)
Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2004 09:26:01 +0900
Subject: Question for python
Message-ID: <JFENKNBNAJCAFOMIHFAPEEDOCBAA.mskim@hurim.net>

Dear Sir !

My name is Kim myoung-soo, and I live in seoul, Korea.

I have a some error messages during make python-2.3.3. binary and library files.

Is python for IA64(HP-UX) available ?

I tried to compile with two compilers 'aCC - aCC: HP aC++/ANSI C B3910B A.05.50 [May 15 2003]' 
and 'gcc - 3.3.2'.

Environments

H/W Flatform : Itanium2 Server (HP rx2600 Model)
OS : HP-UX ????? B.11.23 U ia64 3118694750
Python Version : 2.3.3

From james at ractive.ch  Mon Apr 12 16:40:37 2004
From: james at ractive.ch (Jean-Pierre Bergamin)
Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2004 22:40:37 +0200
Subject: How to get value of parent class
References: <c5e5fb$irm$1@newshispeed.ch>
	<slrnc7lbkh.vrk.joe@gate.notcharles.ca>
Message-ID: <c5eus6$1os$1@newshispeed.ch>

Joe Mason wrote:

>> I have the following class structure:
>>
>>
>> class MyServer:
>>
>>     x= 0
>>
>>     class MyHandler(SocketServer.StreamRequestHandler):
>>         def handle(self):
>>             if x: # <---- How to get the X from the parent class?
>>                   # Or how to pass a value to this class anyway?
>>                 do_something()
>
> Just say "MyServer.x".

Hmmm. The TCPServer class instanciates a new
SocketServer.StreamRequestHandler object everytime it uses it. Therefore
it's not in the context of the MyServer class. That's why it didn't work.

It's like in this example:

class A:
 x = 0

 class B:
  def get_x(self):
   print A.x


a = A()
a.x = 10
b = a.B()
b.get_x() # prints out 0 (not 10 as someone might expect)


As a workaroud it did it this way:

def start_server(self):
        handler = self.MyHandler
        handler.x = self.x
        s = SocketServer.TCPServer(('', 1234), handler)
        s.server_forever()


But thanks for the hint.


James




From rawbobb at hotmail.com  Sun Apr 18 22:50:54 2004
From: rawbobb at hotmail.com (bobb)
Date: Mon, 19 Apr 2004 02:50:54 GMT
Subject: New scripts directory
References: <mailman.748.1082326606.20120.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <i8Hgc.4303$2v.1036@nwrdny02.gnilink.net>


"Eric @ Zomething" <eric at zomething.com> wrote in message
news:mailman.748.1082326606.20120.python-list at python.org...

Mikl?s wrote:
>
> That's sorta funny. Or is it? You annouce a new website on
comp.lang.python
> and there's no Python section on that site..


Python?  Who is Python?

[I am not sure who he is, but apparently he needs Vicodin and Viagra]

that's what his girlfriend pe(a)rl says, anyway ;)





From peter at engcorp.com  Fri Apr 30 07:53:51 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2004 07:53:51 -0400
Subject: Path ... where is my application's home dir?
In-Reply-To: <Xns94DB3B44C6806JanC@213.118.38.102>
References: <mailman.81.1083164606.25742.python-list@python.org>
	<Xns94D9B0A6BEE74duncanrcpcouk@127.0.0.1>
	<c6ovte$5im$1@biggoron.nerim.net>
	<p8WdnYsB5t5PmQ3dRVn-hw@powergate.ca>
	<Xns94DB3B44C6806JanC@213.118.38.102>
Message-ID: <84Kdnfq3OoPKow_dRVn-vg@powergate.ca>

JanC wrote:

> Peter Hansen <peter at engcorp.com> schreef:
> 
> 
>>Also works on WinXP. (And the last statistic I saw showed Win98
>>users at something like 2% of the Windows-using population,
>>so perhaps we can almost forget about it...  ?)
> 
> 
> I guess Win9x users are more like 15-30% of the Windows-using population...

No doubt the answer is somewhere in between 2% and "15-30%", but
mine was not a guess, just an actual survey.  (No, I don't have
a reference for it... wasn't important for me to save it at the
time and I've personally migrated to XP, so now of course the
rest of the world that hasn't is of less interest to me. ;-)

-Peter


From farraige at interia.pl  Thu Apr  8 15:10:43 2004
From: farraige at interia.pl (Farraige)
Date: Thu, 8 Apr 2004 21:10:43 +0200
Subject: how to force a python service to reconfigure itself after updating?
Message-ID: <c548h3$8gh$1@nemesis.news.tpi.pl>

Hi!

I hope you will help me. I have the following problem....
I have implemented a Windows NT service using win32serviceutil. The service
runs a 'working loop' in another thread and waits for the stop event to be
set. A working loop thread checks the space used by logfiles against the
given upper limit and deletes the files, if the upper limit is reached.
After each space analysis it sleeps for about 30 minutes. The service
handles start/stop/restart/.../update parameters from the command line.
Update command updates by default all the changes made in the service python
code without need to restart the service... What about the situation if my
service reads some configuration datas from its config file? If I change
some data in the configuration files, those changes "will not be seen" after
using update parameter due to none change was made in the service code. Do
you have an idea how to overload the standard behaviour of using update
command line parameter to force the service to reconfigure itself without
restarting? I don't now how to implement communication between the main
function that handles all command (thanks to
win32serviceutil.HandleCommandLine) line parameters and the working thread
that is started by the service in its SvcRun method?

Thanks in advance for any hints!

Best wishes,

Niki




From timh at zute.net  Sat Apr 24 04:20:42 2004
From: timh at zute.net (Tim Hoffman)
Date: Sat, 24 Apr 2004 16:20:42 +0800
Subject: [OT] Plone
In-Reply-To: <6ukic.84257$cd.5573763@phobos.telenet-ops.be>
References: <6ukic.84257$cd.5573763@phobos.telenet-ops.be>
Message-ID: <408a2351$1@news.highway1.com.au>

I have been using Zope now since 2000. I would recommend it highly.
If you want stuff done for you out of the box definately go with Plone.

Really  I don't understand a lot of peoples complaints about Zopes 
complexity. It like all products has it warts, but its a hell
of lot easier to fit in your head than Apache/Tomcat plus all the
Java stuff ;-). And you can't have all the features of Zope without
complexity.

Just my 2c worth

Rgds

Tim





flupke wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> i've read some user comments on Zope. As was to be expected some say
> it's cool, others says it's difficult and not easy to debug.
> I would use Plone as CMS for our intranet which will also be a platform
> for our tools. Does plone make it even more difficult to get going or does
> it
> hide some of the difficulties of Zope?
> I'm kind of in a dillema here, the more i read about Python, the more i like
> it. As it seems mod_python/FCGI is a good combo to bring Python power
> to the web but since they want a CMS and i don't have time to write one
> from the ground up, i'm thinking of using Plone.
> I have my doubts about Zope especially from the viewpoint
> of administration. I will have to maitain the systems where it runs on also.
> 
> Any comments?
> flupke
> 
> 
> 


From R.Brodie at rl.ac.uk  Fri Apr 16 06:26:30 2004
From: R.Brodie at rl.ac.uk (Richard Brodie)
Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2004 11:26:30 +0100
Subject: newbie question
References: <Xns94CCA389D3DA0plasticnospamplsxsin@216.77.188.18>
	<c5mtsl$dns$2@absinth.dialog.net.pl>
	<Xns94CCA82D89C84plasticnospamplsxsin@216.77.188.18>
	<c5mvrg$fda$1@absinth.dialog.net.pl>
	<Xns94CCAEBD1A18Eplasticnospamplsxsin@216.77.188.18>
Message-ID: <c5occn$ijq@newton.cc.rl.ac.uk>


"jeff" <plastic"no-spam-pls"@xsintrk.net> wrote in message
news:Xns94CCAEBD1A18Eplasticnospamplsxsin at 216.77.188.18...

> i only want the socket to close if the word 'kill' has been sent.

You are missing Krzysztof's point. Even if the string 'kill' is sent,
TCP does not guarantee that is what you will receive. It is a pure
stream system and has no concept of records or lines; that isn't likely
the problem here but sooner or later, you *will* get burnt if you start
thinking that if 4 characters are sent, then 4 will be received.





From mark at prothon.org  Wed Apr 28 16:00:15 2004
From: mark at prothon.org (Mark Hahn)
Date: Wed, 28 Apr 2004 13:00:15 -0700
Subject: Why we will use obj$func() often
References: <d2Uhc.22272$dZ1.1600@fed1read04> <84Uhc.22278$dZ1.5087@fed1read04>
	<mailman.927.1082665370.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<8AWhc.23114$dZ1.11070@fed1read04> <40883BFE.B381518A@alcyone.com>
	<27_hc.23801$dZ1.2716@fed1read04> <40887145.789A2FE8@alcyone.com>
	<7cki80hj976bia36lhf9er97v073o1pqvm@4ax.com>
	<w8dic.28710$dZ1.11206@fed1read04> <ulXiAls/KH1K089yn@the-wire.com>
	<lkfic.29767$dZ1.17301@fed1read04>
	<donn-66132E.15345723042004@nntp3.u.washington.edu>
	<PLhic.30493$dZ1.22063@fed1read04>
	<c6huj3$c3s3f$1@ID-169208.news.uni-berlin.de>
	<u8zjc.7394$Qy.127@fed1read04>
	<c6ni3j$e0vbb$1@ID-169208.news.uni-berlin.de>
	<5vJjc.13116$Qy.1954@fed1read04>
	<donn-FB76CA.11024928042004@nntp3.u.washington.edu>
Message-ID: <52Ujc.16275$Qy.3111@fed1read04>

Donn Cave wrote:
> In article <5vJjc.13116$Qy.1954 at fed1read04>,

> Well, in a sense this (&var) is a simplistic avoidance of scope.  Scope
> is how unqualified identifiers are resolved.

Scope is a noun, not a verb.  To me a scope is just a namespace defined by
syntax.  There are many ways to specify what scope a var belongs in, and
qualification using &var is just as valid as any other.

> Greg points out that it doesn't handle more complex usage like nested
> functions (and Simon's list comprehension / loop).  You can dismiss
> those as uncommon problems, but then this whole feature addresses
> a problem that bothers only those who choose to be afflicted.

It turns out that Greg and I were mistaken.  The &var syntax can easily
handle unlimited nested scopes and not even slow up my one-pass compiler.  I
explained this on the Prothon list.

I'll take a look at Simon's list comprehension problem next.  There might be
a solution for that also.

> As I said there, declaration isn't an interesting part of that,
> but the idea that declarations are "not Pythonic" strikes me as
> particularly absurd (not to mention just seeing you, of all people,
> offer this criticism.)

I didn't mean to be critical, just stating pros and cons.

> What is "class"?

Be fair.  You know that I didn't throw out classes on a capricious whim.

> What is "def"?

I go through crazy moments where I consider every possibility and throw out
ideas.  I considered the idea of replacing def with func (def is misnamed
after all) and that proposal lasted about 30 minutes.  Another idea that
lasted about 45 minutes was changing __init__ to init.  Please don't hold
anything against me during these trial-idea times.  Wait until you see the
final Prothon before you criticize my wanton destruction of the Python
heritage.  It also wouldn't hurt to hear you voice on the Prothon mailing
list influencing the outcome.




From Mike at DeleteThis.Geary.com  Tue Apr 27 12:35:01 2004
From: Mike at DeleteThis.Geary.com (Michael Geary)
Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2004 09:35:01 -0700
Subject: What is good about Prothon?
References: <bniq80hiib0gauiltuntk9jvia2getbnj4@4ax.com>
	<nxdjc.400$Qy.363@fed1read04>
	<m0ps8092jss5mhpopkbj0a4hg0m0rlppqh@4ax.com>
	<vDvjc.5555$Qy.2995@fed1read04>
Message-ID: <108t2tlo06j8vb9@corp.supernews.com>

> David MacQuigg wrote:
> >         Mammal.talk()      # Call an unbound function. <== <== !!!

Mark Hahn wrote:
> This works great in Python, but in Prothon there is no such thing
> as a class to tell the difference in the binding. The concept of a
> prototype is in the programmer's mind, not the interpreter's,
> since every object can be a prototype.

I thought you'd already solved the problem anyway?

Given an object named 'obj' and a function attribute in that object named
'func':

obj.func  # bound method
obj('func')  # unbound function
obj$func  # function bound to $ (self), e.g. for super calls

-Mike




From peter at engcorp.com  Thu Apr  8 14:39:50 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Thu, 08 Apr 2004 14:39:50 -0400
Subject: wx.SystemSettings - GTK/Win32/Python variances
In-Reply-To: <30260531.0404081003.136f8759@posting.google.com>
References: <30260531.0404081003.136f8759@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <xsWdnW6bO93qAejd4p2dnA@powergate.ca>

simo wrote:

> I seem to recall that wx.Platform was being deprecated, so how do we
> do platform checks to fix the things that vary between implementations

http://www.wxpython.org/MigrationGuide.html says that you should
probably begin using wx.PlatformInfo instead.  This is a tuple.
On my machine (WinXP) it contains:

 >>> wx.PlatformInfo
('__WXMSW__', 'wxMSW', 'ascii')

The doc mentioned says to do things like this now:

    if "__WXGTK__" in wx.PlatformInfo:


It also says only "BTW, wx.Platform will probably be deprecated in the 
future."

Sorry, I can't help on the scrollbar question.

-Peter


From ville at spammers.com  Fri Apr 16 08:36:44 2004
From: ville at spammers.com (Ville Vainio)
Date: 16 Apr 2004 15:36:44 +0300
Subject: (For gurus) Embed functions in webpages like in PHP?
References: <5eq4l1-9vm.ln1@pilz.hasos.com>
Message-ID: <du7fzb4rter.fsf@lehtori.cc.tut.fi>

>>>>> "rob" == Robert Ferber <rob at nospam.net> writes:

    rob> Hi, I'm a PHP-programmer who evaluates Python for a new
    rob> project.  I really like a lot of concepts of Python,
    rob> especially the shell, but there is one great feature of PHP
    rob> which I don't know how to replace in Python:

    rob> <html>
    rob> <? echo random_banner(); ?>
    rob> important database result that took 20 minutes to generate
    rob> </html>

Check out the new mod_python, it offers exactly the functionality you
need. Some discussion is here:

http://www.onlamp.com/pub/a/python/2004/02/26/python_server_pages.html

A teaser:

<html>
<%
import time
%>
<h1>Current time is
<%= time.ctime() %> </h1>
</html>

-- 
Ville Vainio   http://tinyurl.com/2prnb


From wweston at att.net  Thu Apr  1 17:56:21 2004
From: wweston at att.net (wes weston)
Date: Thu, 01 Apr 2004 22:56:21 GMT
Subject: splitting one dictionary into two
In-Reply-To: <20040401171502.GD4577@jsaul.de>
References: <20040401153103.GC4577@jsaul.de>
	<c4hh0i$uol$03$1@news.t-online.com>
	<20040401171502.GD4577@jsaul.de>
Message-ID: <p61bc.9911$vo5.300713@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>

jsaul wrote:
> I notice now that I forgot to mention an important condition,
> namely that in real life dict2 is already existing and may have
> become huge. 

jsaul,
    How huge is huge?
wes



From cbarton at shaben.com  Fri Apr 23 05:31:49 2004
From: cbarton at shaben.com (cbarton at shaben.com)
Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2004 05:31:49 -0400
Subject: Excel file
In-Reply-To: <200404230931.i3N9Vfo5007630@mail87.megamailservers.com>
References: <200404230931.i3N9Vfo5007630@mail87.megamailservers.com>
Message-ID: <200404230931.i3N9VndS007683@mail87.megamailservers.com>

I am away from the office until May 3, 2004.  I will respond to email upon my return.

If it is urgent please contact Stacey Dochuk at sdochuk at shaben.com or Peter Bui at pbui at shaben.com

Christine Barton



From billybugmaster at yahoo.com  Mon Apr 12 20:57:36 2004
From: billybugmaster at yahoo.com (nick)
Date: 12 Apr 2004 17:57:36 -0700
Subject: OO Bug needs squashing
References: <35f7b657.0404121341.6acb8a52@posting.google.com>
	<7xlll0dd8d.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <35f7b657.0404121657.5d2f887b@posting.google.com>

I should know better but just couldn't see it.

Thanks, consider it squashed.


From peter at engcorp.com  Sat Apr  3 07:47:10 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Sat, 03 Apr 2004 07:47:10 -0500
Subject: Indent testers needed (Prothon)
In-Reply-To: <Oerbc.133153$cx5.81711@fed1read04>
References: <Unqbc.131025$cx5.57643@fed1read04>
	<noOdnTqctOE3pPPdRVn-tw@powergate.ca>
	<Oerbc.133153$cx5.81711@fed1read04>
Message-ID: <U6OdnQqkUrbTL_PdRVn-jg@powergate.ca>

Mark Hahn wrote:

> "Peter Hansen" <peter at engcorp.com> wrote ...
> 
>>I heard a rumour Python is heading for "no tabs", period. Why not just
>>simplify everyone's life and do the same for Prothon, and leave the
>>whole darned issue in the past.
> 
> I first said tabs-only since I'm a tabs lover and the tabs-haters came out
> and crucified me. Because of that and the fact that I found out that Guido
> wants to pull tabs from Python, I said we were going to spaces-only and then
> the space-haters did the same. I don't think Guido has a chance in hell of
> ever pulling tab support from Python.

I knew I shouldn't have gone there... it led you to ignore my real
point.

Which was don't you think that this is going to make cut-and-paste
a really significantly dangerous/difficult thing compared to even
Python's current (accept either) approach?

-Peter


From robin at alldunn.NOSPAM.com  Thu Apr  1 17:46:31 2004
From: robin at alldunn.NOSPAM.com (Robin Dunn)
Date: Thu, 01 Apr 2004 14:46:31 -0800
Subject: Don't understand wxPython event handling
In-Reply-To: <c4h08g$fok$1@news.mch.sbs.de>
References: <c4h08g$fok$1@news.mch.sbs.de>
Message-ID: <bZ0bc.543$P45.538@fe07.usenetserver.com>

Robert wrote:
> Hello list,
> 
> could somebody point me to a good reference about wxPython event handling?
> I have seen many examples but which one is the best. Waht are the advantages
> and disadvantages?

http://wiki.wxpython.org/index.cgi/RecipesEvents
http://wxwidgets.org/manuals/2.5.1/wx_eventhandlingoverview.html
The wxPython demo
etc.

> 
> Can you also have a short look at the example below and give me some
> comments, please?
> 
> Example:
> I have implemented (or copied from somewhere) one event in two flavours.
> Both work, but which one is the best? Or does anybody have a better
> implementation.
> 
> EVT_NEXT_PAGE_ID = wxNewId()

wxNewId is meant for window/menuItem/toolbarItem IDs.  wxNewEventType 
should be used for, uh, new eventTypes ;-)


> 
> def EVT_NEXT_PAGE( win, func ):
>     """Your documentation here"""
>     win.Connect( -1, -1, EVT_NEXT_PAGE_ID, func )
> 
> class showNextPageEvent(wxPyEvent):
>     def __init__(self, windowID):
>         wxPyEvent.__init__(self)
>         self.SetEventType(EVT_NEXT_PAGE_ID)
> 

This is fine (or deriving from wxPyCommandEvent if you want the event to 
propgate to parent windows,) but even better is to use the newevent 
module in the wxPython library.  It contains functions that generate on 
the fly an event class and binder function similar to the above for you, 
but it will help your code to be future proof in case things change in 
future releases.

	import wx.lib.newevent
	showNextPageEvent, EVT_NEXT_PAGE = wx.lib.newevent.NewEvent()

-- 
Robin Dunn
Software Craftsman
http://wxPython.org  Java give you jitters?  Relax with wxPython!



From max at alcyone.com  Fri Apr 23 16:39:18 2004
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2004 13:39:18 -0700
Subject: Why we will use obj$func() often
References: <d2Uhc.22272$dZ1.1600@fed1read04><84Uhc.22278$dZ1.5087@fed1read04><mailman.927.1082665370.20120.python-list@python.org><8AWhc.23114$dZ1.11070@fed1read04><40883BFE.B381518A@alcyone.com><27_hc.23801$dZ1.2716@fed1read04><40887145.789A2FE8@alcyone.com><7cki80hj976bia36lhf9er97v073o1pqvm@4ax.com><w8dic.28710$dZ1.11206@fed1read04>
	<mailman.976.1082747030.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<Q0fic.29626$dZ1.29049@fed1read04>
Message-ID: <40897EF6.A9ACEC03@alcyone.com>

Mark Hahn wrote:

> "Fredrik Lundh" <fredrik at pythonware.com> wrote ...
> 
> > > (by the way, Python cannot do this)
> >
> > sure can, if you use mutable integers.
> 
> That's interesting.  I've never heard of them.  Can you show me a code
> example?

Make a container.  Put an integer in it.  Pass the container around. 
Change the integer that's contained in it.

-- 
 __ Erik Max Francis && max at alcyone.com && http://www.alcyone.com/max/
/  \ San Jose, CA, USA && 37 20 N 121 53 W && AIM erikmaxfrancis
\__/ I'm paranoid. But am I paranoid enough?
    -- Louis Wu


From harry.g.george at boeing.com  Wed Apr 28 09:27:35 2004
From: harry.g.george at boeing.com (Harry George)
Date: Wed, 28 Apr 2004 13:27:35 GMT
Subject: python under subversion (svn)
References: <xqxvfjlzgnl.fsf@cola2.ca.boeing.com>
	<mailman.43.1083077828.25742.python-list@python.org>
	<dc6f5c99.0404271553.7255f07@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <xqx7jw0kzaw.fsf@cola2.ca.boeing.com>

grahamd at dscpl.com.au (Graham Dumpleton) writes:

> Richie Hindle <richie at entrian.com> wrote in message news:<mailman.43.1083077828.25742.python-list at python.org>...
> 
> > You also need to decide whether your trunk and branches will live at the top
> > level with the projects underneath them, or whether the projects will live
> > at the top level with the trunks and branches underneath them.  Because of
> > the way I'm traditionally accustomed to using CVS, I prefer to think of the
> > trunk and branches as top-level concepts with the projects living within
> > them.  Hence I'd do something like this:
> > 
> > After import:
> > 
> > trunk/
> >   myproject/
> >     doc/
> >     mypackage/
> >       stable.py
> >       changing.py
> >     test/
> >       go_test
> 
> Having "trunk" at the top level and projects under it is also better when you
> have multiple projects. This is because you can do one checkout of the
> "trunk" root directory and get the main version of all projects in one go.
> If you have the "trunk" under the project name, you have to do a checkout
> on each projects trunk to get the latest of everything, which is more work.


I know the svn recommendation is trunk at the top.  But we have
several substantially separate development efforts in the same
repository, so we don't wnat to check out everything.  The development
groups don't even know each other.  I'm thinking I need a separate
repository (with trunk at the top) for each community.



-- 
harry.g.george at boeing.com
6-6M21 BCA CompArch Design Engineering
Phone: (425) 342-0007


From webshield at firstindustrial.com  Fri Apr 23 10:31:29 2004
From: webshield at firstindustrial.com (webshield at firstindustrial.com)
Date: Fri Apr 23 10:31:29 2004
Subject: Virus Detected by Network Associates, Inc. Webshield SMTP V4.5 MR1a
Message-ID: <20040423153130.6DC0319D401@havala.firstindustrial.com>

WebShield SMTP V4.5 MR1a detected virus W32/Netsky.z at MM!zip in attachment Notice.zip
from <python-list at python.org> to the following recepients



From ajw140NO at SPAMyork.ac.uk  Wed Apr  7 06:51:41 2004
From: ajw140NO at SPAMyork.ac.uk (Andrew Wilkinson)
Date: Wed, 07 Apr 2004 11:51:41 +0100
Subject: what is happening here?
References: <c4vaum$q39$1@nntp.ece.cmu.edu>
Message-ID: <c50mfr$m31$1@pump1.york.ac.uk>

dan miller (moderator, s.p.d) wrote:
>  >>> from test import *

Here you create a variable glob that is a reference to the one in your test
module.

>  >>> glob
> 1

This returns the value of glob in the test module

>  >>> getglob()
> 1

Here you're calling getglob, which is in the test module.

>  >>> glob=2

Here's where your problem lies... You're creating a new variable glob that
*replaces* the old variable. The variable that is also called glob in the
test module is unaffected.

>  >>> glob
> 2

Now you're refering to the newly create variable, hence the value 2.

>  >>> getglob()
> 1

Here you're calling getglob, which is in the test module and hence it uses
the glob variable in test - which has the value 1.

>  >>> setglob(3)
>  >>> getglob()
> 3

Same with these two, they're both in test - and so use the variable glob in
test.

>  >>> glob
> 2

This still refers to glob in your local namespace, which still has the value
2.

Hope this is of some help,
Andrew


From dmq at gain.com  Sat Apr 24 10:25:02 2004
From: dmq at gain.com (David MacQuigg)
Date: Sat, 24 Apr 2004 07:25:02 -0700
Subject: Why we will use obj$func() often
References: <8AWhc.23114$dZ1.11070@fed1read04> <40883BFE.B381518A@alcyone.com>
	<27_hc.23801$dZ1.2716@fed1read04> <40887145.789A2FE8@alcyone.com>
	<7cki80hj976bia36lhf9er97v073o1pqvm@4ax.com>
	<w8dic.28710$dZ1.11206@fed1read04> <ulXiAls/KH1K089yn@the-wire.com>
	<lkfic.29767$dZ1.17301@fed1read04>
	<donn-66132E.15345723042004@nntp3.u.washington.edu>
	<PLhic.30493$dZ1.22063@fed1read04> <1082783076.585831@yasure>
	<Tunic.32387$dZ1.12932@fed1read04>
Message-ID: <bipk80pio4qjk9rl0ucfmk4g4h6s3bkkuu@4ax.com>

On Fri, 23 Apr 2004 23:07:47 -0700, "Mark Hahn" <mark at prothon.org>
wrote:

>You aren't the only one who thinks that closures are unnecessary.  Dave
>McQuigg has posted several messages today making that argument.  I also have

Please be more careful about characterizing what other people say.  On
this thread alone you have stated or implied that others are attacking
you personally, or are prejudiced, or are taking some position that
they are not.  I have *not* argued that closures are unnecessary.

>several people saying they couldn't live without them.  One javascript
>programmer says he uses instance variables for access outside of objects
>(properties) and closure variables for storage variables inside objects.  He
>has posted a lengthy messge about it on the Prothon lists.  Go figure.

I figure that it depends on what language you have been using.  Python
has other mechanisms to provide the functionality of closures, so
Python programmers don't feel the need.  Other languages may depend
heavily on closures.  By "closures" I mean access to variables outside
the scope of the current function.

>I personally think the complications of adding one '&' prefix to give all
>the benefits of closures is a good trade-off.  No matter how much people
>rant and rave about Prothon heading down the path to the Perl-y gates of
>hell (sorry about that pun) I refuse to believe that some ugly punctuation
>is going to ruin an otherwise good language.

The problem is not the ugly punctuation.

We need to understand what you mean by "all the benefits".  The
example you posted could be done more easily and more transparently
using existing mechanisms in Python.  Even extrapolating that example
to a larger program doesn't show a benefit.  {Note: this is a
statement about the example, not about closures in general.}

>> I might seriously
>> consider what I believe we call lexical scoping, and a declaration -
>> not assigning a type, but an initial value, like "let x = 0".
>> Namespaces like Python's would be for objects - modules, classes,
>> class instances, whatever - not functions - and would be purely
>> explicit, not implicit like a scope (I think that would most
>> conspicuously require some alternative for "def" statements,
>> for example.)
>
>I'm not following you exactly, but I think what you are asking for is the
>declaration of variables with "let x = 0", or what some languages use is
>just "var x" that specify that the variable belongs in the scope of that
>declaration.  This resolves the ambiguity of local versus global variables
>and even gives a nice solution for closures.

I think what he is suggesting is that functions not have their own
namespaces.  This seems like overkill to me.  Maybe we could have a
special kind of function that shares its namespace with the block in
which it is embedded -- an "inline" function -- basically a block of
code that can be invoked with one statement.  This might be worth
proposing.

>That is an interesting idea.  It turns out to be a little harder for the
>compiler and program reader to use because both have to still scan the code
>to find that declaration and discover what scope a variable belongs in,
>although it is much easier than the current Python scheme where there are
>complex rules and more code scanning involved, but less typing.  The Python
>intrpreter requires three scans to parse the source and generate bytecodes.
>
>The advantage of prefix symbols that Ruby and Prothon use right now is that
>the compiler and the program reader don't have to scan the code at all to
>see what scope the var belongs to.  When you see the & you know it's in the
>surrounding function, when you see a capital letter you know it's global to
>the module, when you see a lower-case letter you know it's local, etc.  Once
>you get used to it the code is much more readable.  The Prothon compiler
>parses source and generates code in one fast pass.

How about instead of decorating variables with special symbols or
capitalization, we have a rule that says any variables with unusual
scope must be declared in a statement at the top of the function where
they are used.  So for example

def func( x, y ):
   global   a, b, c    ### module level
   external d, e, f    ### one level up
   ...

This would avoid the need for new and unique symbols, would unclutter
the code in the body of the function, would provide a single place
where you could see the scope of any unusual variable, and would
answer the question "What external dependencies does this function
have?"  Does it satisfy the need you are seeing for & variables?

Python added "read access" to external variables, so they must have
considered "write access" as well.  I don't know the history, but I
would guess the reason they didn't allow this is the same as the
reason they don't allow GOTO.  Yes it is powerful, but it might
encourage bad programming.  

Can you imagine having to debug a large program where none of the
functions have any arguments, just &vars buried in the bodies of the
functions?  That is the kind of code that might be written by someone
who does not want to think ahead.  You can write the call() first,
then use & variables whenever you need an argument.  These are the
kind of things that must be considered when looking at a new feature
for a language.

-- Dave



From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Fri Apr  9 13:37:23 2004
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 9 Apr 2004 13:37:23 -0400
Subject: list comprehensions
References: <yjZcc.42823$Pk3.9547@pd7tw1no>
Message-ID: <c56n0j$9r8$1@panix1.panix.com>

In article <yjZcc.42823$Pk3.9547 at pd7tw1no>,
Elaine Jackson <elainejackson7355 at home.com> wrote:
>
>List comprehensions don't work the way you intuitively expect them
>to work. I realize many people have no intuitions about how list
>comprehensions 'should' work, so if you recognize yourself in this
>description, feel free to go back to whatever you were doing before. If
>you're still here, though, I invite you to consider the following
>definition:

Short response: don't write complex listcomps.
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

Why is this newsgroup different from all other newsgroups?


From jepler at unpythonic.net  Thu Apr  1 15:58:30 2004
From: jepler at unpythonic.net (Jeff Epler)
Date: Thu, 1 Apr 2004 14:58:30 -0600
Subject: Just magic ...
In-Reply-To: <ddc19db7.0404011238.e6c2db9@posting.google.com>
References: <ddc19db7.0404011238.e6c2db9@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <20040401205830.GF20484@unpythonic.net>

I don't know, and since the code you posted doesn't run I can't find
out.

>>> self.IMpos =0
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
NameError: name 'self' is not defined

Jeff



From fpetermaas at netscape.net  Thu Apr  1 12:02:54 2004
From: fpetermaas at netscape.net (Peter Maas)
Date: Thu, 01 Apr 2004 19:02:54 +0200
Subject: Python conference slogan
In-Reply-To: <c4h6ad$lu0$1@panix1.panix.com>
References: <mailman.189.1080759511.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<kmjsj1-89u.ln1@snout.lairds.org> <c4glmq$j1i$1@swifty.westend.com>
	<c4h6ad$lu0$1@panix1.panix.com>
Message-ID: <c4hht4$gu0$1@swifty.westend.com>

Aahz wrote:
> It's from the Pledge of Allegiance:
> 
>       I Pledge Allegiance to the flag of the United States of America
>        and to the Republic for which it stands, one Nation under God,
>                indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.
> 
> The "under under" part of course refers to Python's special methods.

Ah, thanks. That was the hard part: under -> underscore.
"Under under" made me think of spluttering :)

Mit freundlichen Gruessen,

Peter Maas

-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Peter Maas, M+R Infosysteme, D-52070 Aachen, Hubert-Wienen-Str. 24
Tel +49-241-93878-0 Fax +49-241-93878-20 eMail peter.maas at mplusr.de
-------------------------------------------------------------------


From fredrik at pythonware.com  Sat Apr 17 02:04:06 2004
From: fredrik at pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Sat, 17 Apr 2004 08:04:06 +0200
Subject: md5.hexdigest() converting unicode string to ascii
References: <77b925de.0404151450.5c1f720a@posting.google.com><c5ohp8$fqf$1@absinth.dialog.net.pl><mailman.687.1082117438.20120.python-list@python.org><c5om3d$iu4$1@absinth.dialog.net.pl>
	<77b925de.0404161337.3917ef56@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <c5qhc2$tpt$1@sea.gmane.org>

"uebertester" wrote:

> None of the suggestions seem to address the issue.  sValue =
> _winreg.QueryValueEx(y,"") returns a tuple containing the following
> (u'http://', 1).  The string u'http://' is added to the md5 object via
> the update() and then hashed via hexdigest().  How do I keep the
> unicode string from being converted to ascii with the md5 functions?

krzysztof already explained this:

- MD5 is calculated on bytes, not characters.
- Unicode strings contain characters, not bytes.
- if you pass in a Unicode string where Python expects a byte string,
  Python converts the Unicode string to an 8-bit string using the default
  rules (which simply creates 8-bit bytes with the same values as the
  corresponding Unicode characters, as long as the Unicode string only
  contains characters for which ord(ch) < 128).
- if you're not happy with that rule, you have to convert the Unicode
  string to a byte string yourself, using the "encode" method.

        m.update(u.encode(encoding))

- if you don't know what encoding you're supposed to use, you have
  to guess.  if it doesn't matter, as long as you remember what you used,
  I'd suggest "utf-8" or perhaps "utf-16-le".

> Or can I?

given how things work, the "how do I keep the string from being
converted" doesn't really make sense.

</F>






From eppstein at ics.uci.edu  Fri Apr  2 17:49:07 2004
From: eppstein at ics.uci.edu (David Eppstein)
Date: Fri, 02 Apr 2004 14:49:07 -0800
Subject: An attempt at guessing the encoding of a (non-unicode) string
References: <c1sq60t7af0lgs1ovilg6ds220dkc0inpd@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <eppstein-8C467F.14490702042004@news.service.uci.edu>

I've been getting decent results by a much simpler approach:
count the number of characters for which the encoding produces a symbol 
c for which c.isalpha() or c.isspace(), subtract a large penalty if 
using the encoding leads to UnicodeDecodeError, and take the encoding 
with the largest count.

-- 
David Eppstein                      http://www.ics.uci.edu/~eppstein/
Univ. of California, Irvine, School of Information & Computer Science


From http  Sat Apr  3 18:40:19 2004
From: http (Paul Rubin)
Date: 03 Apr 2004 15:40:19 -0800
Subject: Python is faster than C
References: <406F0907.96F37EA1@tunes.org> <7xy8pcogaa.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<406F454B.C4CC8063@tunes.org>
Message-ID: <7xekr4vdek.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

Armin Rigo <arigo at tunes.org> writes:
> There are two levels: the language specification and its implementation.
> My point is that there is no reason why everything that is (at the
> language level) a list, should always be implemented as a plain array of
> objects.  The list returned by range(1000000) doesn't have to use 4MB of
> memory when the same information can be encoded in a couple of ints. 
> The presence of xrange() is the oldest of these user-visible
> optimization hack that should have been optimized in the implementation
> instead.  

I think you're saying that instead of having xrange return a special
object, range should return that special object instead.  I'm not too
clear on the distinction.  Also, how can the compiler or interpreter
know whether the program will only access the object sequentially?
It has to predict the behavior of the program, instead of being told
explicitly.


From dave at pythonapocrypha.com  Thu Apr  1 09:03:45 2004
From: dave at pythonapocrypha.com (Dave Brueck)
Date: Thu, 1 Apr 2004 07:03:45 -0700
Subject: Reliability of venster+ctypes on win32
References: <8f198e47.0404010335.6045400e@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <01df01c417f2$27883960$6600a8c0@YODA>

Somesh wrote:
> I downloaded and tried a small dialog-dll's application with
> venster+ctypes+python 2.3
> its working very well, but is it reliable to use in big projects ? or
> part of big projects ?

You'll have to make that determination yourself, but IMO they are both very
stable. We started using them both in production applications sooner than the
authors probably would have advised, but didn't encounter problems (we've
certainly never had any crashes due to either library, for example).

> wot are advantages/disadvantages of this combination over win32all
> package of Mark Hammond ? plz guide me before i starting using it ../

win32all is a bigger install, so we chose not to use it with a couple of
applications in which download size was critical. Another drawback is that the
only APIs available are ones that the win32all author has chosen to include,
whereas ctypes lets you call pretty much anything, including 3rd party DLLs. A
drawback of ctypes is that it is more low-level in some cases, so sometimes you
have to do more things "by hand". For example, win32com has some very slick COM
support, especially if you're a COM client using IDispatch interfaces. You can
do all the same stuff in ctypes, but its COM offering isn't as mature yet.

Although Venster is young, you can still use it to do whatever Win32 GUIs you
need. It's probably the only pure Python GUI framework out there (which in
itself it pretty nifty), and if you're targeting the Windows platform and
already have experience doing Win32 GUI programming then you should definitely
consider it. It's not nearly as high-level as, say, wxPython (so proceed with
caution if you don't have Win32 GUI API experience), but advantages include
blazingly fast application load times compared to other frameworks and very,
very tiny footprint (we added a GUI to our application and increased the
download size by <30KB! :) )

We don't use win32all anymore, but there's certainly no reason why you have to
choose one or the other - if it makes sense then you can use both.

-Dave




From python at simon.vc  Thu Apr  8 06:47:46 2004
From: python at simon.vc (SimonVC)
Date: 8 Apr 2004 03:47:46 -0700
Subject: getattr() in default namespace.
Message-ID: <fa156589.0404080247.6557408e@posting.google.com>

Hi group, long time reader first time poster (ive always wanted to say
that).

How do you use getattr() to get a refernce to a function defined in
the default namespace..

eg:

>>> dir()
['__doc__', '__name__', 'b1', 'b2', 'b3', 'rd']

>>> b1
<function b1 at 1876939>
>>> getattr(self, "b1")

Traceback (innermost last):
  File "<console>", line 1, in ?
NameError: self

>>> getattr("b1")
Traceback (innermost last):
  File "<console>", line 1, in ?
TypeError: getattr(): expected 2-3 args; got 1


From peter at engcorp.com  Fri Apr  2 23:07:41 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Fri, 02 Apr 2004 23:07:41 -0500
Subject: Making the Zen of Python more useful
In-Reply-To: <slrnc6rvad.26k.joe@gate.notcharles.ca>
References: <mailman.284.1080928147.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<c4kkja$l7r$1@news-int.gatech.edu>
	<slrnc6rvad.26k.joe@gate.notcharles.ca>
Message-ID: <p-SdnX5LdN4TpfPdRVn_iw@powergate.ca>

Joe Mason wrote:
> I'm assuming that providing and printing the Zen of Python is the
> module's main purpose, BTW, since I'm not familiar with it.  What is the
> 'this' module, anyway?  It's a name that's pretty much impossible to
> Google for...

You don't google for just 'this', you google for 'import this'.  It
comes on T-shirts too...

Think along the lines of someone saying "Oh yeah?  Well import _this_!"
and I suspect you get the origin of the name...

-Peter


From tundra at tundraware.com  Sat Apr 24 17:12:35 2004
From: tundra at tundraware.com (Tim Daneliuk)
Date: 24 Apr 2004 17:12:35 EDT
Subject: [ANN]: 'tconfpy' 1.181 Released
Message-ID: <to1rl1-vc62.ln1@eskimo.tundraware.com>

'tconfpy' 1.181 is released and available at:

     http://www.tundraware.com/Software/tconfpy/

This is the first public release of the program.  A FreeBSD port
is also being submitted.

'tconfpy' is an advanced configuration file parser and validator for
Python programs.  By using 'tconfpy', Python programmers can provide
their users with an external configuration file for setting program
options, defining defaults, and so on.  'tconfpy' offloads the
responsibility for parsing and validating a configuration file from
the main application. The Python programmer need only deal
with the results and any errors or warnings generated during the
parsing process.

'tconfpy' recognizes a rich configuration language and provides a
number of sophisticated programming features including:

     - The ability to breakup large configurations into smaller pieces
       via the '.include' directive.

     - Support for string substitution and concatenation throughout the
       configuration file via string variables.  Variables may be
       locally declared, a reference to a symbol already in the
       symbol table, or a reference to an environment variable.

     - A complete set of conditional directives for selective
       processing of configuration options. Both existential ("If
       variable exists ...") and comparison ("if string equals/does not
       equal string ...") forms are provided, as is an '.else'
       directive.

     - The ability to instantiate program options prior to reading a
       configuration file and make them mandatory by declaring those
       options as Read-Only.

     - Optional type validation to ensure that a user enters a value
       appropriate for boolean, integer, floating point, string, or
       complex data.

     - Optional value validation to ensure that a configuration option
       is either within a specified range or one of an enumerated set
       of possible values.  For configuration options which are string
       types, 'tconfpy', can optionally specify min/max string lengths
       and enumerate a set of legitimate regular expressions that the
       string must match.

     - The ability to define an arbitrary number of lexical namespaces.

     - The ability to use the various features of 'tconfpy' as a pre-
       processor for any other text (including source code for other
       programming languages and Python itself) via the '.literal'
       directive.

     - An optional debug capability which returns detailed information
       about each line parsed.

     - Includes a test driver program for learning how to program with
       'tconfpy' and for debugging and testing your own configuration
       files.

     - Comes with over 30 pages of documentation including a
       Programmer's API Reference and a User's Guide to the 'tconfpy'
       configuration language.  Documentation is provided in several
       formats including Unix 'man', Plain Text, html, pdf, and
       Postscript.

'tconfpy' is a Pure Python module and is platform-independent.
It should work identically on any platform on which Python runs.
-- 
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Tim Daneliuk     tundra at tundraware.com
PGP Key:         http://www.tundraware.com/PGP/



From mcfletch at rogers.com  Fri Apr  9 15:03:09 2004
From: mcfletch at rogers.com (Mike C. Fletcher)
Date: Fri, 09 Apr 2004 15:03:09 -0400
Subject: Problem!!
In-Reply-To: <494182a9.0404082115.3c828371@posting.google.com>
References: <494182a9.0404082115.3c828371@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <4076F36D.6010207@rogers.com>

Balaji wrote:

>Hello everybody..
>
>I have a problem!!!
>
>suppose i want to define
>
>c1=x(i)+y(i)<=b for i in s1 ------------ suppose it is the first
>constraint..
>c2=x(i)+y(i)<=b for i in s2------------- suppose it is the second
>constraint..
>
>now as i is indexed over s1 so is c1.. but what it does is it overites
>the first constraint..
>  
>
You will likely need to define, (preferably with Python code), what you 
are doing, what you are expecting, and what is going wrong (what you 
actually get).  If I'm understanding you correctly, the problem is that 
you want to apply these two constraints to the lists s1 and s2 something 
like:

c1 = [ result for result in [ x(i) + y(i) for i in s1] if result <= b]
c2 = [ result for result in [ x(i) + y(i) for i in s2] if result <= b]

but it could just as readily be that you want:

c1 = [ (x(i)+y(i)<=b) for i in s1 ]
c2 = [ (x(i)+y(i)<=b) for i in s2 ]

just to be clear, that expression will yield a list of True/False 
values, i.e. whether the sum of the results of the two functions on i is 
less than b.  Adding brackets around the first part of the expression:

( x(i)+y(i) ) <= b

will help maintainers of the code by eliminating the need for them to 
verify the order of operations.

Good luck,
Mike

_______________________________________
  Mike C. Fletcher
  Designer, VR Plumber, Coder
  http://members.rogers.com/mcfletch/





From paul at prescod.net  Sat Apr  3 17:51:48 2004
From: paul at prescod.net (Paul Prescod)
Date: Sat, 03 Apr 2004 14:51:48 -0800
Subject: Working with bytes.
In-Reply-To: <406EE606.4000604@yahoo.com>
References: <406EE606.4000604@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <406F4004.6010707@prescod.net>

Adam T. Gautier wrote:

> I have been unable to solve a problem.  I am working with MD5 signatures 
> trying to put these in a database.  The MD5 signatures are not generated 
> using the python md5 module but an external application that is 
> producing the valid 16 byte signature formats.  Anyway, these 16 byte 
> signatures are not nescarrally valid strings.  How do I manipulate the 
> bytes?  I need to concatenate the bytes with a SQL statement which is a 
> string.  This works fine for most of the md5 signatures but some blow up 
> with a TypeError.  Because there is a NULL byte or something else.  So I 
> guess my ultimate question is how do I get a prepared SQL statement to 
> accept a series of bytes?  How do I convert the bytes to a valid string 
> like:
> 
> 'x%L9d\340\316\262\363\037\311\345<\262\357\215'
> 
> that can be concatenated?

Python strings are just a list of bytes. They will happily contain 
binary data.

 >>> a = open("/bin/ls").read()
 >>> type(a)
<type 'str'>

Concatenating byte strings with Unicode strings has been known to cause 
problems:

 >>> a = open("/bin/ls").read()
 >>> type(a)
<type 'str'>
 >>> type(j)
<type 'unicode'>
 >>> x = a + j
Traceback (most recent call last):
   File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
UnicodeDecodeError: 'ascii' codec can't decode byte 0xfe in position 0: 
ordinal not in range(128)

It is also possible that your SQL library just does not like the byte 
strings: but that wouldn't really be a Python problem. If you want to 
encode as pure ASCII then  you need to choose an encoding. e.g. base64:

a = a.encode("base64")

Of course sometime later you'll have to decode that.

  Paul Prescod





From jacek.generowicz at cern.ch  Fri Apr 23 03:39:06 2004
From: jacek.generowicz at cern.ch (Jacek Generowicz)
Date: 23 Apr 2004 09:39:06 +0200
Subject: AOP use cases
References: <84fc4588.0404140106.3fa0c55@posting.google.com>
	<slrnc7q1ss.1aa.alf@largo.fayauffre.org>
	<cb035744.0404141130.170f51c4@posting.google.com>
	<slrnc7sgat.vp.alf@largo.fayauffre.org>
	<cb035744.0404160442.2f0b1661@posting.google.com>
	<0pydnSB4WYuieuLdRVn-hQ@powergate.ca>
	<tyfbrlkv3ae.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
	<XYmdnVLB9rjbARrdRVn-vg@powergate.ca>
	<tyf7jw8utoo.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
	<c68fj5$7bt$1@news1.wdf.sap-ag.de>
	<tyfvfjst2k9.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
	<tyffzav62ux.fsf@lxplus054.cern.ch>
	<ZIqdna8YaN3p4RXd4p2dnA@powergate.ca>
Message-ID: <tyfzn93p2hx.fsf@lxplus026.cern.ch>

Peter Hansen <peter at engcorp.com> writes:

> <chuckle>  There's a large contingent of folks in the world,
> not trained as computer scientists, who would question the
> claim that anything involving Fibonnaci sequences makes
> a good "real world" example.  ;-)

It's not meant to be a real world example; it's meant to be a quick
demonstration of what separation of concerns is (to someone who seems
to be being deliberately obtuse about it, it seems (not you, Peter)).


From rogerb at rogerbinns.com  Tue Apr 27 15:10:47 2004
From: rogerb at rogerbinns.com (Roger Binns)
Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2004 12:10:47 -0700
Subject: Is Perl *that* good?
References: <mailman.18.1082989111.25742.python-list@python.org>	<lNadndrvs_FarRDdRVn-vA@powergate.ca>	<108qcobc4m8g972@corp.supernews.com>	<roy-AEA452.13121026042004@reader2.panix.com>
	<i5m0m1-tbo.ln1@home.rogerbinns.com> <408E08A3.6070609@prescod.net>
Message-ID: <000901c42c8b$591c26f0$3501a8c0@rogersqyvr14d3>

Paul Prescod wrote:
> Python had a shot too:
> 
> http://ksi.cpsc.ucalgary.ca/archives/WWW-TALK/www-talk-1994q3/1066.html

It doesn't look like anyone actually developer a Python enabled
browser though.  Code is always better than talk :-)

> > To solve the same problems, Netscape invented yet another language and
> > put "marketing flavour of the day" in front, blessing us with Javascript.
> > I really wish Tcl had won that one.
> 
> I wish Python had won. ;)

Python isn't really suitable because web scripting languages really need
to be happy to treat everything as a string.  (You will note that is a
trait Javascript and PHP share).

Roger



From ramen at lackingtalent.com  Mon Apr  5 03:10:51 2004
From: ramen at lackingtalent.com (Dave Benjamin)
Date: Mon, 05 Apr 2004 07:10:51 -0000
Subject: String concatenation
References: <wS8bc.4382$px6.64058@news2.e.nsc.no>
	<7xisgi24fm.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<zlvbc.4577$px6.66541@news2.e.nsc.no>
	<7xr7v5fm3o.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <slrnc72282.sf.ramen@lackingtalent.com>

In article <7xr7v5fm3o.fsf at ruckus.brouhaha.com>, Paul Rubin wrote:
> "Leif B. Kristensen" <junkmail at solumslekt.org> writes:
>> >   tmp = [x for x in res if x and x[0] != '-']
>> >   return ', '.join(tmp)
>> 
>> Substituting tmp with the real thing, it turns into a one-liner:
>> 
>> return ', '.join([x for x in res if x and x[0] != '-'])
>> 
>> Awesome :-)
> 
> Yeah, I wrote it that way at first, but figured it was obscure enough
> already if you weren't used to list comprehensions, so I put back the
> tmp variable.

FWIW, I'm used to seeing (and writing) stuff like this, and I don't think
the "tmp" adds any clarity. You could wrap around it with a function,
though, if you needed it often enough:

def join_if(pred, seq, sep):
    return sep.join([x for x in seq if pred(x)])

def valid(x):
    return x and x[0] != '-'
    
return join_if(valid, res, ', ')

-- 
.:[ dave benjamin: ramen/[sp00] -:- spoomusic.com -:- ramenfest.com ]:.
:  please talk to your son or daughter about parametric polymorphism. :


From PPNTWIMBXFFC at spammotel.com  Wed Apr 28 09:44:09 2004
From: PPNTWIMBXFFC at spammotel.com (Marco Aschwanden)
Date: Wed, 28 Apr 2004 15:44:09 +0200
Subject: Path ... where is my application's home dir?
Message-ID: <opr655rvsx35jo5o@news.gmane.org>

I want to store a file in the application directory. What is the easiest 
way to figure out, where my application is situated?

sys.argv[0] does not work for my purposes... do you have any other ideas.

Thanks for any hint,
Marco




From mwh at python.net  Tue Apr 20 07:42:37 2004
From: mwh at python.net (Michael Hudson)
Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 11:42:37 GMT
Subject: Catching console output interactively
References: <mailman.688.1082120189.20120.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <m3ekqiri37.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk>

"Byrom, R (Rob) " <R.Byrom at rl.ac.uk> writes:

> hi,
> 
> I'd like to be able to trap console output as the user writes interactively.
> For example if the user press the up or down keys I'd like to be able to
> catch this and return the last executed command (a bit like the bash_history
> idea). Can anyone point me in the right direction?

What platform?

Cheers,
mwh

-- 
  There's an aura of unholy black magic about CLISP.  It works, but
  I have no idea how it does it.  I suspect there's a goat involved
  somewhere.                     -- Johann Hibschman, comp.lang.scheme


From __peter__ at web.de  Fri Apr 23 03:56:45 2004
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2004 09:56:45 +0200
Subject: Generic constructors and duplication of internal Python logic
References: <87ekqq41ya.fsf@pobox.com> <c5lfi6$cit$00$1@news.t-online.com>
	<87oepnzlbp.fsf@pobox.com> <c62kqc$glm$07$1@news.t-online.com>
	<87k707elth.fsf@pobox.com>
Message-ID: <c6ai7t$o2c$03$1@news.t-online.com>

John J. Lee wrote:

[my buggy code]

> This can be fixed, but then we move towards my clumsy-but-correct (I
> hope) implementation.  I'm disappointed there's no simple solution
> that makes better use of Python's own knowledge of argument
> specifications.

I warned you that my code was not thoroughly tested, and I aggree with you
that this is getting clumsy. 
But will I stop trying to come up with something better? no way. Here's my
next try, and I'm likely to present something completely different again if
you don't like it - not sure if that's a promise or a threat :-)

import inspect, sys

def generateSource(m):
    a = inspect.getargspec(m)
    names = a[0]
    if a[1] or a[2]:
        raise Execption("*args/**kw not supported")
    nself = names[0]
    assignments = ["    %s.%s = %s" % (nself, n, n) for n in names[1:]]
    return "def %s%s:\n%s" % (m.__name__,
                              inspect.formatargspec(*inspect.getargspec(m)),
                              "\n".join(assignments))

def generateMethod(m):
    """Generate a method with the same signiture
       as m. For every argument arg a corresponding line

       self.arg = arg

       is added.
    """
    # source code generation factored out for easier debugging
    ns = {}
    exec generateSource(m) in ns
    return ns[m.__name__]

class Demo(object):
    def __init__(self, foo, bar, baz=2, bang=3):
        pass
    __init__ = generateMethod(__init__)
    def __str__(self):
        return ", ".join(["%s=%r" % (n, getattr(self, n))
             for n in "foo bar baz bang".split()])

print "--- generatatSource(Demo.__init__) ---"
print generateSource(Demo.__init__)
print "--------------------------------------"

print Demo(1, 2, 3)
print Demo(1, 2)
print Demo(1, 2, bang=99)
print Demo(1, bang=99, bar=11)
print Demo(1, bar=11)

Peter


From jcarlson at uci.edu  Sat Apr  3 13:54:52 2004
From: jcarlson at uci.edu (Josiah Carlson)
Date: Sat, 03 Apr 2004 10:54:52 -0800
Subject: Principles of documentation
In-Reply-To: <106tlb1co98gb0d@corp.supernews.com>
References: <40699A31.8000708@yahoo.com> <c4djdd$sir$1@news.service.uci.edu>
	<406A5892.7030809@mlug.missouri.edu>
	<c4dpro$5vg$1@news.service.uci.edu>
	<106tlb1co98gb0d@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <c4n1g3$f5j$1@news.service.uci.edu>

> We're different--always interesting.  As a heavy consumer and
> producer of documentation, "having the type .. in the function
> definition is convenient" intrigues me.  Clouding my thoughts
> a bit is C's wimpy type system ('love the language, 'recognize
> its limits).  Your proposition sounds to me much like what we
> used to believe about compile-time syntax checking, versus
> more robust and application-specific unit tests.

Goodness, please don't lump me with the compile-time syntax checking 
zealots *wink*.  I'm talking about convenience in documentation of C/C++ 
functions; it tells you what you /should/ be passing in.  No more, no 
less.  I find reading such type signatures to be quicker than linguistic 
descriptions of the passed arguments.

One really nifty thing about decorators (PEP 318) is that people will 
have the option of strong and dynamically typed polymorphism, but the 
drawback is that we may get some C++ or Java programmers who use it for 
everything, even when it is not necessary or detrimental.


> My preliminary reaction, therefore:  yes, indeed, type declar-
> ations are important, Python documenters should be particularly
> careful always to specify them explicitly, and, if anything,
> Python has the chance to improve on the standards C and C++ set,
> as its typing is stronger.

Agreed.

  - Josiah


From PPNTWIMBXFFC at spammotel.com  Wed Apr 28 10:45:14 2004
From: PPNTWIMBXFFC at spammotel.com (Marco Aschwanden)
Date: Wed, 28 Apr 2004 16:45:14 +0200
Subject: Path ... where is my application's home dir?
References: <mailman.76.1083159752.25742.python-list@python.org>
	<408fbc0a$0$17256$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
Message-ID: <opr658loa535jo5o@news.gmane.org>

>> I want to store a file in the application directory.
>
> 1) Don't
>
> 2) Why?

- I want to store the current state of the application when leaving the 
application in an ini-file.
- It is a "single-user" pc!
- It is Windows.
- I don't like (others would say hate) to use the registry.
- I prefer having ini-files in the application directory.


> 3) Under Unix in general there is no reliable, portable way to
>    do that.
>
>> sys.argv[0] does not work for my purposes... do you have any
>> other ideas.
>
> Yes.
>
> It sounds like you're trying to do a bad thing in the Unix
> world.  Firstly, some smart admins have entire filesystems
> mounted read-only.  Your application may live in one of those.
>
> Secondly, global configuration files go in /etc.  Per-user
> configuration files go in the user's home directory in
> .<appname>-conf .<appname>rc or under the .<appname>/
> directory.  If you want them preserved across reboots, then
> caches of stuff go in /var/cache/<appname>.  Files that don't
> need to survive a reboot go in /tmp.
>
> What are you trying to do?

As I said: It is a windows machine, single user, small app... but I am 
very glad you made this remarks, cause it reminds me to consider 
portability when writing apps - and now I can see, where I am failing. 
Thanks.

And yes, the best place to store this information would be in the user's 
home dir, but then: Where is it? How to find it under Windows - every 
version of windows changes the place for home dirs. It would be nice to 
have something like this in a system/version independet way:

sys.users_home_dir

Is there anything like it in Python?

Thanks,
Marco







From a at a.invalid  Wed Apr 21 03:26:24 2004
From: a at a.invalid (Timo Virkkala)
Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2004 07:26:24 GMT
Subject: Pygame book
In-Reply-To: <pan.2004.04.21.09.46.23.358592@NOTTHISBIT.webone.com.au>
References: <vA8hc.2788$gH6.118@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net>
	<vlehc.375$uz.125@read3.inet.fi>
	<pan.2004.04.21.09.46.23.358592@NOTTHISBIT.webone.com.au>
Message-ID: <Amphc.75$wN1.19@read3.inet.fi>

Simon Burton wrote:

> On Tue, 20 Apr 2004 18:54:19 +0000, Timo Virkkala wrote:
> Does it cover PyOpenGL ?
> What about pyODE (open dynamics engine) ?
> Pyrex??

There's a full Table of Contents and a sample at 
http://www.charlesriver.com/titles/pythongame.html

It uses PyOpenGL to some extent, but doesn't teach much about it. Quote 
from the book:

   """This is not a book about OpenGL, so this section only
      includes a minimal amount of detail about the OpenGL
      code being used. For more detail on OpenGL programming,
      there are many other resources available both in books
      and online."""

pyODE isn't even mentioned in the book - which is a shame,
I'd like to have read about it too. Pyrex is absent too, but there is 
some information about SWIG, Boost and Psyco.

--
Timo Virkkala


From http  Tue Apr 13 15:38:50 2004
From: http (Paul Rubin)
Date: 13 Apr 2004 12:38:50 -0700
Subject: interpreter limits
References: <m3zn9f95xm.fsf@union.tjtech.com>
	<407c23bf$0$570$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>
	<m3u0zn93sg.fsf@union.tjtech.com>
	<407c2ecc$0$574$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>
Message-ID: <7xisg3vfat.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

Irmen de Jong <irmen at -nospam-remove-this-xs4all.nl> writes:
> Can't you do something smart with signals, threads, alarm() and kill() ?
> Like running the code in a worker thread, where the main thread
> keeps track of how long it has been running and if not finished
> within a certain time, kill() it.

How do you kill a thread from another thread?  I don't know of any way
to do that.

Maybe it's safest to run the user script in a separate process and
communicate through a socket or through shm.  That allows using the
normal OS features for resource limits, file protection, etc.


From t-meyer at ihug.co.nz  Tue Apr 13 22:24:43 2004
From: t-meyer at ihug.co.nz (Tony Meyer)
Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2004 14:24:43 +1200
Subject: Making urllib2 work with proxy urls
In-Reply-To: <1ED4ECF91CDED24C8D012BCF2B034F1305E118E2@its-xchg4.massey.ac.nz>
Message-ID: <1ED4ECF91CDED24C8D012BCF2B034F13026F2B8E@its-xchg4.massey.ac.nz>

> A PAC file is a script that defines a JavaScript function:
> 
> function FindProxyForURL(url, host) {
>     // based on url & host:
>     // return "DIRECT" to use no proxy, or something like
>     // return "PROXY proxy.example.com:8080" to use that proxy }
> 
> This function can get quite complex, so to use it 
> automaticly, you might need a JavaScript engine...

I looked into this a little for SpamBayes a while back (there's still an
open bug report...) and it's unfortunately even more complex than that.  The
automatic configuration javascript has access to some special functions that
IE (etc) provide, so you'd need access to them as well, or for the OP to
write their own versions of them (they're for dealing with IP ranges and
that sort of thing).

There's quite good documentation about it around, though, so it's easy to
start.  My suggestion would be that the OP look at the Mozilla code, since
Firefox (and I presume Mozilla) can use automatic configuration scripts, and
the source is somewhat easier to get hold of than the source to IE...

=Tony Meyer




From No.Spam.mc at No.Spam.mclaveau.No.Spam.com  Fri Apr  9 03:59:05 2004
From: No.Spam.mc at No.Spam.mclaveau.No.Spam.com (Michel Claveau/Hamster)
Date: Fri, 9 Apr 2004 09:59:05 +0200
Subject: Function args
References: <sdqdc.37060$zm5.15866@nntpserver.swip.net>
	<c55f5r$f2l$1@news-reader4.wanadoo.fr>
	<c55g8u$vvg$1@s1.read.news.oleane.net>
	<c55joj$q5f$1@news-reader1.wanadoo.fr>
Message-ID: <c55m6o$acd$1@news-reader4.wanadoo.fr>

Re-re

Il y a bien un moyen, mais assez tordu.

La fonction globals() permet de conna?tre toutes les r?f?rences d'objet,
mais aussi de les manipuler.

Exemple :

a,b=2,3
print a,b        # =>  2,3
print id(a),id(b)

globals()['a']=globals()['b']

print a,b        # => 3,3
print id(a),id(b)    # a et b pointent sur le m?me objet !!!



Avec cette technique, la ligne suivante :

    globals()['a'],globals()['b']=globals()['b'],globals()['a']

?changera les r?f?rences de 'a' et de 'b', sans toucher aux objets
eux-m?mes.



Mais a-t'on vraiment besoin de ce genre de chose ?








From mauriceling at acm.org  Thu Apr 15 18:53:45 2004
From: mauriceling at acm.org (Maurice LING)
Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2004 22:53:45 GMT
Subject: Does Python compete with Java?
In-Reply-To: <KbydnZd2qY7uyuPdRVn-uw@powergate.ca>
References: <8b336527.0404051337.51bb4a1b@posting.google.com>
	<c4taac$2lg0bc$1@ID-169208.news.uni-berlin.de>
	<e838aa6e.0404071426.7192e8e4@posting.google.com>
	<slrnc79idf.hij.ramen@lackingtalent.com>
	<e838aa6e.0404130748.1d8e1ddf@posting.google.com>
	<407deb56$1@news.unimelb.edu.au>
	<KbydnZd2qY7uyuPdRVn-uw@powergate.ca>
Message-ID: <407f1273$1@news.unimelb.edu.au>

I understand what you are trying to get at. In my mind, the 
"competition" between languages had existed since the 1st day I wrote 
Hello World in QBasic. Maybe there are two types of computer guys in 
this world, those that learn the minimal and those that learn as much as 
possible. I think I belong to the latter group even though I'm a 
molecular biologist/bioinformaticist by trainings. Simplicity in syntax 
is Python's strength to cater for the former group. Another thing that 
can be done is to improve the libraries. In this world of 3000 
programming languages, what makes Python worth learning?

Personally, I do wish to see that Python AND Java becomes mainstream, 
although the latter has. A "marketing" strength which wasn't quite 
tapped into is universities. If Python is taught in universities, then 
it isn't tough to become mainstream. That's how mysql got so popular, or 
at least I think that's how. Python enforces good programming 
techniques, such as, readability. Yet, themes as such are taught in C, 
perhaps one of the most unreadable language. Trying to debug a badly 
indented C program is a horror, not to mention people do write a 
recursive function in a single line!!

Maurice

Peter Hansen wrote:
> Maurice LING wrote:
> 
>> A. Lloyd Flanagan wrote:
>>
>>> Dave Benjamin <ramen at lackingtalent.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Over the long term, I think Python's biggest key to success will be 
>>>> that we will still be able to read the programs that we are writing 
>>>> now.
>>>
>>>
>>> No argument here :)
>>
>>
>> I don't quite understand, does Python have to compete with Java? In 
>> many cases, the programming language used to write an application 
>> almost has no relevance to the acceptance of the application. 
> 
> 
> That's not the whole picture though.  One would also like to be able
> to easily find programmers capable of working very effectively with
> the language, so that maintenance can be performed, and enhancements,
> and new projects using the same language.
> 
> This "competition" he's talking about is not really going on in the
> users' minds, but in the developers' minds.  Imagine how difficult it
> would be to get anywhere with projects if there were so many popular
> languages that the odds of a given developer knowing your language
> were, say, less than 2%...
> 
>> What I see is that Python and Java can be synergistically linked, for 
>> example, through Jython, can be more constructive than competition...
> 
> 
> That is yet another of Python's strengths. ;-)
> 
> -Peter


From anton at vredegoor.doge.nl  Sun Apr 18 05:42:33 2004
From: anton at vredegoor.doge.nl (Anton Vredegoor)
Date: Sun, 18 Apr 2004 11:42:33 +0200
Subject: Difficulty finding Python employer
References: <407e9164$0$122$3a628fcd@reader3.nntp.hccnet.nl>
	<slrnc83p3k.tdb.ramen@lackingtalent.com>
Message-ID: <40824dca$0$136$3a628fcd@reader1.nntp.hccnet.nl>

Dave Benjamin:

>> Will send no resume. Can't stand hype. Must telecommute.
>
>That could explain your difficulty...

Yes, my resume is less than useless. An academic education as a social
scientist, a few years work at a university followed by a lot of years
of unemployment, very lightly sprinkled by short term programming
jobs. 

The other conditions I also can't do much about except switching
identity and relocating. 

Anton



From python at rcn.com  Mon Apr  5 02:41:30 2004
From: python at rcn.com (Raymond Hettinger)
Date: 4 Apr 2004 23:41:30 -0700
Subject: Python is faster than C
References: <406F0907.96F37EA1@tunes.org> <du7y8pcupfb.fsf@mozart.cc.tut.fi>
Message-ID: <5d83790c.0404042241.561b8828@posting.google.com>

[Armin Rigo]
>     Armin> Worse, and more importantly, the optimization starts to
>     Armin> become visible to the programmer.  Iterators, for example,
>     Armin> are great in limited cases but I consider their
>     Armin> introduction a significant complication in the language;
>     Armin> before, you could expect that some function from which you
>     Armin> would expect a sequence returned a list.  Python was all
>     Armin> lists and

[Ville Vainio]
> Iterators are an optimization? I always considered them just a more
> clean and elegant way to do the same thing :-).

In the planning discussions, optimization was not mentioned as goal. 
In fact, I think everyone was surprised that they happened to run
faster than the __getitem__ hack.  It was also a surprise at how much
they unified the language and made the various pieces work together a
little better.

The original goals were much smaller:
* less cumbersome file iteration (eliminating the need for xreadlines
and reducing the need for the fileinput module).
* providing an extensible interface
* making the code for non-sequence collections more concise and
readable

There was a thought that the performance of dictionary iteration would
improve.  Also, while it was not discussed explicitly, everyone was
aware that iterators were more memory/cache friendly than their list
based counterparts.


Raymond Hettinger


From kkrueger at example.edu  Sun Apr 11 22:54:12 2004
From: kkrueger at example.edu (Karl A. Krueger)
Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2004 02:54:12 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Python OS
References: <107j4eu6ffn2c68@corp.supernews.com>
	<7xy8p29wc4.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <c5d0ci$mf3$1@baldur.whoi.edu>

Paul Rubin <http://phr.cx at nospam.invalid> wrote:
> The idea is not completely insane, but you'd have to do a LOT of work,
> possibly including reimplementing the language.  You might look at
> some of the Lisp Machine publications for inspiration and an idea of
> what you'd be getting yourself into.

More recently, check out Movitz, which is a project implementing Lisp
directly on x86.

	http://www.common-lisp.net/project/movitz/

This isn't actually Lisp OS, though -- it's a runtime on which an OS
could be built.  A Python OS would require the same sort of layer,
presumably including a Python native-code compiler and hooks for
hardware access, so that a kernel could be written in Python.

-- 
Karl A. Krueger <kkrueger at example.edu>
Woods Hole Oceanographic Institution
Email address is spamtrapped.  s/example/whoi/
"Outlook not so good." -- Magic 8-Ball Software Reviews


From junkmail at solumslekt.org  Sat Apr  3 04:30:34 2004
From: junkmail at solumslekt.org (Leif B. Kristensen)
Date: Sat, 03 Apr 2004 11:30:34 +0200
Subject: String concatenation
References: <wS8bc.4382$px6.64058@news2.e.nsc.no>
	<7xisgi24fm.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<Rz9bc.4514$zf6.60676@news4.e.nsc.no>
	<406D27A7.6550A00B@alcyone.com>
	<ZW9bc.4389$px6.64242@news2.e.nsc.no>
	<406D2CD5.878EBD4E@alcyone.com>
	<d9abc.4519$zf6.60744@news4.e.nsc.no>
	<406D2FA2.6E5118CC@alcyone.com>
	<YZhbc.4488$px6.65517@news2.e.nsc.no>
	<i7mbc.4659$zf6.61729@news4.e.nsc.no>
	<c4ls3u$ipm$06$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <Rsvbc.4578$px6.66707@news2.e.nsc.no>

Peter Otten wrote:

> In the meantime, whenever an apparent whitespace generates a syntax
> error:
> 
> <clean160.py>
> PS: I'm not sure if the above reaches you without those vicious
> blanks, but I'm confident :-)

Thanks, Peter. 

It was of course full of \xa0's. But now that I know about the bug, a
search/replace takes only seconds.
-- 
Leif Biberg Kristensen
http://solumslekt.org/
Validare necesse est


From claird at lairds.com  Mon Apr 26 13:36:56 2004
From: claird at lairds.com (Cameron Laird)
Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2004 17:36:56 -0000
Subject: Is Perl *that* good? (was: How's ruby compare to it older
	brother python)
References: <c6ich0$c5mee$1@ID-205437.news.uni-berlin.de>
	<iL3jc.232$Yc.2330@news4.e.nsc.no>
	<108q51j4dscn7dc@corp.supernews.com>
	<knbjc.267$id.3998@news2.e.nsc.no>
Message-ID: <108qi5opkrfnv56@corp.supernews.com>

In article <knbjc.267$id.3998 at news2.e.nsc.no>,
Leif B. Kristensen <junkmail at solumslekt.org> wrote:
			.
			.
			.
>The routine is for a phonetic search in Norwegian 18th century names,
>which can be spelled in an amazing number of different ways. As I found
>that the Soundex algorithm was useless for Norwegian spellings, I
>invented my own. It's not really an algorithm, but a series of
>substitutions that reduces names to a kind of primitives. Thus, eg.
>Berthe, Birthe, Bergitte, Bergit, Birgit, B?rte, Berit, and Brit, which
>actually are interchangeable spellings of the same name, are reduced to
>BRT.
>
>Here's a small sample:
>
>$str =~ s/HN/N/g;        # John --> JON
>$str =~ s/TH/T/g;        # Thor --> TOR
>$str =~ s/CHI/KJ/g;      # Torchild --> TORKJL
>$str =~ s/CHE/KJ/g;      # Michel --> MKJL
>$str =~ s/KKE/KJ/g;      # Mikkel --> MKJL
>$str =~ s/KIEL/KJL/g;    # Kield -> Kjeld ( --> KJL)
>$str =~ s/CH/K/g;        # Christen -> Kristen ( --> KRSTN)
>$str =~ s/CA/KA/g;       # Carl -> Karl ( --> KAL)
>$str =~ s/RL/L/g;        # Thorleif <=> Tollef <=> Tolf ( --> TOLF)
>
>I use a Perl script to transform my genealogy data from a FoxPro
>database to MySQL command scripts. Thanks to the excellent module
>DBD::XBase by Jan Pazdziora, this is a quite simple task.
>
>In theory, the web routine for phonetic searches might have been
>implemented in PHP. The trouble with that is that I would have to
>maintain both a PHP and a Perl version of the same routine. I find it
>much easier to just copy and paste the whole mess (at present about 120
>lines) between the encoding and the decoding routines in Perl, and run
>an exec("perl norphon.pl $name") from PHP.
			.
			.
			.
Long ago, I was myself involved in a tiny way with
parish records for Finnmark and Troms.  I wish I'd
been able to do more ...

I'm glad things are working for you.  I'm all for
not-duplicating effort.  Do you realize you can use
PHP from the command line?  As I understand your
explanation, it doesn't reflect AT ALL on a defici-
ency in PHP string-handling; to my eye, PHP can do
the operation just about as well as Perl.

Incidentally, Tcl has a one-liner for this, along
the lines of
  set str [string map {HN N TH T CHI KJ CHE KJ ...} $str]
I believe Perl does, too, but haven't enough interest
to track it down now.  I'm also confident we can find
a language which makes the particular operation even 
more transparent.

I continue to conclude that all these languages are
roughtly equally competent at managing strings.
-- 

Cameron Laird <claird at phaseit.net>
Business:  http://www.Phaseit.net


From jkn at nicorp.f9.co.uk  Tue Apr  6 11:24:47 2004
From: jkn at nicorp.f9.co.uk (Jon Nicoll)
Date: 6 Apr 2004 08:24:47 -0700
Subject: [maybe OT] Making posters
References: <95aa1afa.0404030143.58c32975@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <8351bb33.0404060724.3d4e402d@posting.google.com>

Hi Michelle

    There was a PostScript program called 'poster' which came with the
original PostScript 'Blue Book' of recipes. You prepended this to the
beginning of your file and it did the scaling, translating and
cropping etc.

The code for 'poster', as well as other blue book examples, seems to
be available here:

    http://www.science.uva.nl/~robbert/ps/bluebook/program_13.html

    Regards
    Jon N

michele.simionato at poste.it (Michele Simionato) wrote in message news:<95aa1afa.0404030143.58c32975 at posting.google.com>...
> Perhaps this is a bit off topic, but I haven't had look browsing on the
> net, so I thought I will try my chance here. I am looking for a
> tool taking a postscript file and enlarging it to make a poster.
> For instance I want to convert a picture taking a sheet in a poster
> made by four sheet that I can compose. Any suggestion? A Python
> suggestion would help me to stay on topic ;)
> 
> 
>        Michele Simionato


From roy at panix.com  Thu Apr  8 17:20:50 2004
From: roy at panix.com (Roy Smith)
Date: Thu, 08 Apr 2004 17:20:50 -0400
Subject: List vs tuples
References: <c54cjb$5fs$1@planja.arnes.si> <107bf8q8fhsmg5e@news.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <roy-BDDD71.17205008042004@reader1.panix.com>

"John Roth" <newsgroups at jhrothjr.com> wrote:
> A list is a data structure that is intended to be used with 
> homogenous members; that is, with members of the same type.

There's really nothing about a list which makes it more suitable for 
homogeneous elements than a tuple.  It's true that people do tend to 
think tuple when they want a mixed collection of objects, but there's 
nothing in the language semantics which makes that so.

I've written lots of code which parses data files.  If you've got a 
sequence of arbitrary type objects, the easiest way to process them is 
often to read them sequentially and append them to a list.  I don't see 
anything wrong with that.  For example, I once had to write some code 
which parsed SQL statements that looked something like:

insert into foo values (1, 2, 'foo', 3.14, 'bar', 4, 5, 'baz', ...);

There were a total of about 30 items of mixed type (strings, integers, 
and floats) in the ()'s. 

One of the really nice things about Python (vs. C++ or Java) is that 
you're not bound by the tyranny of static typing.  This is a perfect 
example of how this makes life so simple.


From arosado at softhome.net  Tue Apr 13 22:12:55 2004
From: arosado at softhome.net (Andres Rosado-Sepulveda)
Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2004 21:12:55 -0500
Subject: Looking for Python Definition
In-Reply-To: <ZvSdnbu-i7FDF-Hd4p2dnA@comcast.com>
References: <ZvSdnbu-i7FDF-Hd4p2dnA@comcast.com>
Message-ID: <c5i35l$2274t$1@ID-203388.news.uni-berlin.de>

Dave wrote:
> Greetings!
> Python22 is installed on my WINXP Home PC.
> I have no idea what is does, or why it is installed.
> I am not a programmer and do not know what purpose this program provides to
> me.
> 
> Any and all information and suggestions are welcome.

Is your computer an HP or Compaq model? HP/Compaq's utilities are 
written in Python.

-- 
Andres Rosado
Email: andresr at despammed.com
Homepage: http://andres980.tripod.com/

A man wrapped up in himself is a very small bundle.
         -- Benjamin Franklin


From peter at engcorp.com  Sat Apr 24 16:40:15 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Sat, 24 Apr 2004 16:40:15 -0400
Subject: command-line args
In-Reply-To: <408ACEBB.9090600@mlug.missouri.edu>
Message-ID: <E1BHTwe-0006RY-T8@mail.python.org>

Michael [mailto:mogmios at mlug.missouri.edu] wrote:
> Peter Hansen wrote:
> >(This works because after the first import of a module inside an 
> >application, subsequent imports do *not* re-read the .py file, but 
> >simply get a reference to the already-imported module object 
> >from the sys.modules dictionary.)
> >  
> Of course that turns out to work. Odd though because I'd 
> swear I tried that in a project before and found it not 
> working for me. Is that behavior new(ish) in Python? Or maybe 
> I just messed up last time I tried and got it in my head that 
> it wouldn't work that way.

It's definitely always worked that way, at least since 
long before either of us started using Python.  The problem
must have been between the keyboard and the chair.  :-)

-Peter




From jcarlson at uci.edu  Tue Apr 13 03:24:43 2004
From: jcarlson at uci.edu (Josiah Carlson)
Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2004 00:24:43 -0700
Subject: How to kill a SocketServer?
In-Reply-To: <c5esrr$ii$1@newshispeed.ch>
References: <c5e6k3$jf4$1@newshispeed.ch> <c5epfl$67h$1@news.service.uci.edu>
	<c5esrr$ii$1@newshispeed.ch>
Message-ID: <c5g4qc$hru$1@news.service.uci.edu>

> Since the whole application uses much CPU power, the performance (esp. the
> reaction time) of an asynchronous server is too low.
> 
> We found out that a threading server is much the better choise for this, but
> we'd need a way to stop a server and start it again (wich new parameters).

That is very interesting.

After doing some research into heavily multi-threaded servers in Python 
a few years back, I discovered that for raw throughput, a properly 
written async server could do far better than a threaded one.

If your request processing takes the most time, you may consider a 
communication thread and a processing thread.

If your processing thread does a lot of waiting on a database or 
something else, it may make sense to have one communication thread, and 
a handful of database query threads.

What part of a request takes up the most time?

  - Josiah


From ed-no at spam-eepatents.com  Fri Apr 23 02:39:38 2004
From: ed-no at spam-eepatents.com (Ed Suominen)
Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2004 23:39:38 -0700
Subject: Python editors for Windows question
References: <D6Ahc.2737911$iA2.315963@news.easynews.com>
	<vUBhc.2744103$iA2.316352@news.easynews.com>
Message-ID: <s-KdncS-d-m7JxXdRVn-sA@centurytel.net>

PyPE seems like a really nice piece of work as well.

Dustin wrote:

> Thank you everyone. I will test out the various editors! :-)
> 
> "Dustin" <dustin at myaddress.net> wrote in message
> news:D6Ahc.2737911$iA2.315963 at news.easynews.com...
>> Hello,
>>
>> I just started programming in Python last night, and I've really enjoyed
> my
>> experience so far. I would like to know if there is a Windows editor that
>> recognizes Python and will support a module syntax/definition lists For
>> instance, let's say that I set form = cgi and then when I hit the period
>> (".") on the keyboard, a list of objects shows up, such as
>> FieldStorage(), etc.. Any suggestions are appreciated. Thank you!
>>
>> Dustin
>>
>>



From just at xs4all.nl  Thu Apr  1 11:30:40 2004
From: just at xs4all.nl (Just)
Date: Thu, 01 Apr 2004 18:30:40 +0200
Subject: recursive acquire of GIL
References: <bfef2a62.0404010704.36c068d3@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <just-06F8CB.18303901042004@news1.news.xs4all.nl>

In article <bfef2a62.0404010704.36c068d3 at posting.google.com>,
 pcaffrey at iel.ie (Paul) wrote:

> I have seen this discussed already on the newgroup but 
> have not seen if the problem is solved
> 
> Using embedded python in c++ we use
>     PyEval_RestoreThread(context);
> to acquire the GIL.
> 
> We then use swig to call back into c++ which again 
> calls out to python
> Essentially we have
> c++ -> python -> c++ -> python
> 
> The second RestoreThread uses a different python context of course.
> However it hangs
> 
>     PyEval_RestoreThread(context2);
> is hanging.
> 
> We're using python 2.2.1
> 
> Has a solution to this been added to later versions?

I think PEP 311 solved this in 2.3:
  http://www.python.org/peps/pep-0311.html

Just


From peter at engcorp.com  Tue Apr 27 14:24:03 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2004 14:24:03 -0400
Subject: CPU usage of Python interpreter doing empty while loop under XP
In-Reply-To: <c6m2e8$dhqd7$1@ID-180326.news.uni-berlin.de>
References: <c6kogu$cvgah$1@ID-180326.news.uni-berlin.de>
	<7kpr805ou6g8ucm9rok4nodkolcp02viig@4ax.com>
	<c6l61u$d0o8n$1@ID-180326.news.uni-berlin.de>
	<sZSdne1DBrSe2BPdRVn-sQ@powergate.ca>
	<c6m2e8$dhqd7$1@ID-180326.news.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <8cidnWQfWLreOBPd4p2dnA@powergate.ca>

Jon Perez wrote:
> Peter Hansen wrote:
> 
>>How does that help your debugging?  That will tell us whether
>>sleep(0) is a better alternative, or whether there is really
>>something else you should be doing instead.
>>
>>(I have never had occasion to use "while 1: pass" in Python, ever.)
> 
> I'm trying to debug an event-driven framework I wrote myself and 
> there are some iffy situations where a quick and dirty way to halt 
> execution and view the state of some variables with print is to 
> insert a while 1: pass (or sleep(0)).

Good, then what you are really looking for is to get away from the
print statement and learn to use "import pdb; pdb.set_trace()".

This will drop you into a convenient interpreter prompt right in
the frame where it executes (well, one level down, so just type "r"
to return from the set_trace() call to the calling level).  From
this prompt you can inspect any variable in your program, execute
code by single-stepping, and so forth.

Very handy, and it completely obsoletes the "while 1: pass" idea. :-)

-Peter


From junkmail at solumslekt.org  Fri Apr  2 04:16:01 2004
From: junkmail at solumslekt.org (Leif B. Kristensen)
Date: Fri, 02 Apr 2004 11:16:01 +0200
Subject: String concatenation
References: <wS8bc.4382$px6.64058@news2.e.nsc.no>
	<7xisgi24fm.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<Rz9bc.4514$zf6.60676@news4.e.nsc.no>
	<406D27A7.6550A00B@alcyone.com>
	<ZW9bc.4389$px6.64242@news2.e.nsc.no>
	<406D2CD5.878EBD4E@alcyone.com>
Message-ID: <d9abc.4519$zf6.60744@news4.e.nsc.no>

Erik Max Francis wrote:

> At this point I don't know what's going on since there's a
> communication problem; Python's exception specification is based on
> the code you entered, not the code it thought you meant, so you're
> having a cutting-and-pasting problem at least on one side here.

Erik,
After entering Paul's two lines by hand, it suddenly works. You must be
right about the cutting-and-pasting problem, though I don't understand
why lifting text from KNode to KWrite shouldn't work.
 
> If indentation is not to blame, it's possible that the problem is that
> you're not running a version of Python that understands list
> comprehensions.
 
bash-2.05b$ python
Python 2.3.3 (#1, Jan 24 2004, 10:16:14)
[GCC 3.2.3 20030422 (Gentoo Linux 1.4 3.2.3-r3, propolice)] on linux2
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.

regards,
-- 
Leif Biberg Kristensen
http://solumslekt.org/
Validare necesse est


From youngdubliner at hotmail.com  Mon Apr 19 23:21:00 2004
From: youngdubliner at hotmail.com (youngdubliner at hotmail.com)
Date: 19 Apr 2004 20:21:00 -0700
Subject: Embedding Python in C
Message-ID: <4039221c.0404191921.1384cb9c@posting.google.com>

Hi, 

I'm attempting to embedded Python23 in C. 
However , I  seem to be missing some header files from my PC. 
Any idea where on the web I could locate the files below ? 

io.h

sys/stat.h

wchar.h

Thanks in advance :)


From peter at engcorp.com  Mon Apr 26 12:20:04 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2004 12:20:04 -0400
Subject: Is Perl *that* good? (was: How's ruby compare to it older bro
In-Reply-To: <c6jcf5$mfv$2@news.ox.ac.uk>
References: <mailman.18.1082989111.25742.python-list@python.org>
	<lNadndrvs_FarRDdRVn-vA@powergate.ca> <c6jcf5$mfv$2@news.ox.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <2tOdna6S8a4pqxDdRVn_iw@powergate.ca>

leeg wrote:

> Peter Hansen wrote:
> 
>>I guess it would be interesting to pose the question back to
>>them "If you could not use regexes in Perl, would you still
>>like to program in it?" or "If you couldn't use mysql in PHP
>>would you still use it?"
>>
>>What similar question, if any, would be a difficult one for
>>us Python types?
>>
> 
> "If you couldn't write any program your imagination came up with in Python,
> or couldn't at least prototype it, or it took longer to write in Python
> than it did in C or Objective-C, would you still use it?"
> 
> That's my question.  I don't write operating systems or control nuclear
> reactors (not real ones anyway).

I guess it's pretty easy to come up with such questions if
you leave it wide open.

Perhaps I should have said "limit yourself to questions involving
key pieces of functionality, external libraries, or specific
syntax" or something like that...

-Peter


From alan_salmoni at yahoo.com  Sat Apr 10 22:11:48 2004
From: alan_salmoni at yahoo.com (Alan James Salmoni)
Date: 10 Apr 2004 19:11:48 -0700
Subject: [OT] The Cracker's Guide To Python
References: <04g770lqpbhdgr3n3b9mnu9o8f08fdkgk0@4ax.com>
	<b68f71a7.0404080351.381fe1fe@posting.google.com>
	<Xns94C879EE1426JanC@213.119.4.35>
Message-ID: <b68f71a7.0404101811.600c3186@posting.google.com>

JanC <usenet_spam at janc.invalid> wrote in message news:<Xns94C879EE1426JanC at 213.119.4.35>...
> alan_salmoni at yahoo.com (Alan James Salmoni) schreef:
> 
> > Maybe the idea could be added to by laying emphasis on certain
> > modules. Bundle up Python and advertise it on Kazaa like:
> > 
> > "Python - l334 5(r1pt1n9 t001z - crypt, encodings.idna, getpass, and
> > pwd [password] modules h4x0r3d and included as a bonus." :)
> 
> You know, BitTorrent & IRC are more "in" than Kazaa these days...

I really wouldn't know...

Al.


From tismer at stackless.com  Mon Apr  5 17:45:12 2004
From: tismer at stackless.com (Christian Tismer)
Date: Mon, 05 Apr 2004 23:45:12 +0200
Subject: Fake post alert(was: Stackless Website down, Project gone, I'm
 dead.)
In-Reply-To: <slrnc721em.sf.ramen@lackingtalent.com>
References: <20040402195104.186481807.eric@zomething.com>	<mailman.345.1081134064.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<slrnc721em.sf.ramen@lackingtalent.com>
Message-ID: <4071D368.9000607@stackless.com>

Dave Benjamin wrote:

> In article <mailman.345.1081134064.20120.python-list at python.org>, Christian Tismer wrote:
> 
>>Eric @ Zomething wrote:
>>
>>
>>>someone identified as "Christian Tismer" <tismer at stackless.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>I don't deserve this honor, since I didn't write that nonsense.
>>>>But many thanks, anyway.
>>>
>>>
>>>per the headers rec'd-
>>>
>>>this post:  gd31e.g.pppool.de ([80.185.211.30] 
>>>the fool post:  gd31e.g.pppool.de ([80.185.211.30]
>>
>>Yes, it was the same company network. Not going into details...
>>
> 
> 
> Christian Tismer doesn't lock his workstation! I'm telling!! =)

No, he didn't evict certain accounts, well, still not going
into details.

Btw, incidentially, the Stackless site really went down over
the weeken, and I'm more than happy to announce that it is
up and running, again, nothing lost at all.

cheers -- chris the undead

-- 
Christian Tismer             :^)   <mailto:tismer at stackless.com>
Mission Impossible 5oftware  :     Have a break! Take a ride on Python's
Johannes-Niemeyer-Weg 9a     :    *Starship* http://starship.python.net/
14109 Berlin                 :     PGP key -> http://wwwkeys.pgp.net/
work +49 30 89 09 53 34  home +49 30 802 86 56  mobile +49 173 24 18 776
PGP 0x57F3BF04       9064 F4E1 D754 C2FF 1619  305B C09C 5A3B 57F3 BF04
      whom do you want to sponsor today?   http://www.stackless.com/




From mlh at furu.idi.ntnu.no  Fri Apr 23 11:59:54 2004
From: mlh at furu.idi.ntnu.no (Magnus Lie Hetland)
Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2004 15:59:54 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Regexp optimization question
References: <slrnc8gal3.9da.mlh@furu.idi.ntnu.no>
	<mailman.950.1082710898.20120.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <slrnc8ifbq.7j7.mlh@furu.idi.ntnu.no>

In article <mailman.950.1082710898.20120.python-list at python.org>,
Fredrik Lundh wrote:
>Magnus Lie Hetland wrote:
>> but now I have to find out which one of them matched at a
>> certain location.
>
>the techniques discussed in this article may be helpful:
>
>    http://effbot.org/zone/xml-scanner.htm

Yes, this is indeed useful. The most useful thing, I guess, is the
lastindex attribute (which was pointed out earlier) -- but I suspect I
can't use it, as I have to know all the patterns that were matched at
a given location (and let the parser choose which one to use, based
on its context-dependent priorities). Or, at least, that's how it
seems to me now.

I *could*, of course, say that ambiguity is not allowed -- or that the
effects aren't defined. Or maybe I could order the patterns in terms
of specificity (but analyzing regexps for specificity is no mean feat,
of course ;)

Thanks for the pointer, though -- a nice tutorial!

></F>

-- 
Magnus Lie Hetland              "Wake up!"  - Rage Against The Machine
http://hetland.org              "Shut up!"  - Linkin Park


From kkto at csis.hku.hk  Sat Apr 10 23:09:36 2004
From: kkto at csis.hku.hk (Isaac To)
Date: Sun, 11 Apr 2004 11:09:36 +0800
Subject: List vs tuples
References: <c54cjb$5fs$1@planja.arnes.si> <107bf8q8fhsmg5e@news.supernews.com>
	<7in05lfpqt.fsf@enark.csis.hku.hk> <107d52rib5bfrd7@news.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <7illl3dxcf.fsf@enark.csis.hku.hk>

>>>>> "John" == John Roth <newsgroups at jhrothjr.com> writes:

    John> The other major issue here is that you seem to be trying to argue
    John> that tuples are unnecessary because lists can do everything that
    John> tuples can, and more (except be used as keys in dicts, besides
    John> they take up more memory and they're slower.)

Far from the truth (how can you imply what I think by just reading one
message I post, and that message didn't says anything that you believe I
"think").  I just find it strange that to argue that tuples is for
"emulating structs", which can be done perfectly (or indeed better) using
lists instead.

    John> I don't buy that line of arguement. A large part of programming is
    John> finding ways of expressing intent in the program so you don't
    John> wonder what you did six months later. Tuples and lists serve such
    John> different conceptual issues that they help expressiveness.

If lists and tuples are exactly (or nearly) the same, just like class and
struct in C++, then I'll buy the argument.  Then the distinction would
simply be documentary (I believe C++ struct and class distinction serves
important purposes, too).  But the fact is, lists and tuples are not the
same.  If I have a program using lists and I suddenly change all of them to
tuples, or if I have a program using tuples and I suddenly change all of
them to lists, my program breaks.  And it breaks in a way that resolving it
would cause substantial performance and correctness issues.  If I need a
struct-like object and because of your argument, I use tuples, I'll get
burnt later by having to change all of them to lists and deal with the
performance and correctness issues.

So I don't buy that line of thoughts.  Lists is something that can change,
and tuples is something that can't change (at least, the references it holds
can't change; if you change a reference referred by this reference that's
another matter).  I think this by itself serves a very clear documentary
purpose, than the (what I believe bogus) argument that tuples serves as
something like a struct.  So tuples looks like a "value", just like a string
looks like a value in Python; while lists looks like a "variable", just like
a dictionary.

Regards,
Isaac.


From See_my at Signature.com.invalid  Fri Apr 23 07:34:11 2004
From: See_my at Signature.com.invalid (Tuxtrax)
Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2004 11:34:11 GMT
Subject: emacs for OS X
References: <wzhdvdl2wx.fsf@Ordesa.local>
Message-ID: <See_my-5CF9E8.04342023042004@news.verizon.net>

In article <wzhdvdl2wx.fsf at Ordesa.local>,
 Piet van Oostrum <piet at cs.uu.nl> wrote:

> >>>>> Tuxtrax <See_my at Signature.com.invalid> (T) wrote:
> 
> T> Hi all
> T> My editor of choice on linux for python, bar none, is xemacs. I love the 
> T> python mode that detects a python file and handles indentation and 
> T> coloration for me automagically.
> 
> T> I have been using a powerbook for a while now, and I finally found emacs 
> T> for aqua in OS X Jaguar (10.2.8). I downloaded it from porkrind.com. 
> 
> Really??

Ha! Sorry, thats .org .

http://www.porkrind.org/emacs/

-- 
ROT 13 this address to mail me:

bar jbeq abg guerr; uvtu qrfreg zna, gura nqq - ng lnubb qbg pbz.


From torsten.marek at student.uni-tuebingen.de  Thu Apr 15 06:47:25 2004
From: torsten.marek at student.uni-tuebingen.de (Torsten Marek)
Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2004 12:47:25 +0200
Subject: Threading question
In-Reply-To: <xfydnUiny4W3_ePd4p2dnA@powergate.ca>
References: <c5ljtf$qlt$1@newsserv.zdv.uni-tuebingen.de>
	<xfydnUiny4W3_ePd4p2dnA@powergate.ca>
Message-ID: <c5lp7u$2fd$1@newsserv.zdv.uni-tuebingen.de>

Peter Hansen schrieb:
> Torsten Marek wrote:
> 
>> I have a simple question about threads in Python. I am starting  a 
>> number of threads in my program and I want print out the amount of 
>> time needed after all threads stopped. Do I need to explictly join the 
>> threads, set a condition or is it possible to somehow work with 
>> try/finally like that:
>>
>> try:
>>     for i in range(0, num_threads):
>>         s = MyThread()
>>         s.start()
>> finally:
>>     print "all threads finished"
> 
> 
> The other threads are running in, well, other threads, so you
> won't see any effect on the above thread when they end.  Therefore
> you can't get much mileage out of a finally clause.  A .join()
> is definitely the way to go here.
> 
> -Peter
I found another way to go for now, which works fine for me.
Since the threading module sets sys.exitfunc, I just do:

def my_exitfunc():
	global thread_wait
	thread_wait()
	# own stuff follows here...

thread_wait = sys.exitfunc
sys.exitfunc = my_exitfunc

That's maybe not very clean, but it's just a minor script I wrote, so I 
don't want to waste to much time on it;-)

Anyway, thanks for the answer

Torsten


From imbosol at aerojockey.invalid  Fri Apr 16 00:04:13 2004
From: imbosol at aerojockey.invalid (Carl Banks)
Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2004 04:04:13 GMT
Subject: CamelCase versus wide_names (Prothon)
References: <UHxfc.9323$dZ1.3740@fed1read04>
	<mailman.666.1082064823.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<roy-04D784.18524315042004@reader2.panix.com>
Message-ID: <1XIfc.245$GN6.197@fe2.columbus.rr.com>

Roy Smith wrote:
> By contrast, the languages of math (maths to you silly Europeans), 
> science, and engineering are full of wonderful typography.  Different 
> fonts, character sets, diacritical marks, character placement, and 
> special symbols are all meaningful.  For the most part, we struggle 
> along with things like
> 
> $ sum from x = 0 to inf [ pi sup x * j hat * omega dot ] $
> 
> when what we'd write with pen and paper looks nothing like that.  
> Someday, when we finally break out of the 80-column, fixed width, 
> monochrome, monofont, monosize, 7-bit world, our arguments about 
> wide_name vs. bumpyCase will seem just as pre-historic as the $$ 
> gibberish above.

I'm not so sure.  All this markup has got to take a lot longer to type
than plain text to input.  It would take a pretty slick interface just
to match the ease of typing plain text, and then the programmer would
have to spend a lot of time learning the slick interface.

Of course, I can easily imagine a bunch of Visual Basic programmers
seeing this and saying, "Wow this is the coolest invention since the
microwave," not really noticing that their productivity had gone down
(just as they didn't notice the microwave really sucks at cooking), so
maybe it has a chance.

BTW, there are some environments that let you do this now; Mathematica
is a good example.  Because it takes so much longer, I never use the
marked up input.


-- 
CARL BANKS                      http://www.aerojockey.com/software
"If you believe in yourself, drink your school, stay on drugs, and
don't do milk, you can get work." 
          -- Parody of Mr. T from a Robert Smigel Cartoon


From jjl at pobox.com  Thu Apr 29 17:17:29 2004
From: jjl at pobox.com (John J. Lee)
Date: 29 Apr 2004 22:17:29 +0100
Subject: Andreas' practical language comparison
References: <c6glig$phm$07$4@news.t-online.com>
	<TrGdnVUrJdjsahbdRVn-iQ@powergate.ca>
	<c6gu81$pk6$05$2@news.t-online.com>
	<408c23b8$0$41746$5fc3050@dreader2.news.tiscali.nl>
	<5ago80thlgfrsrapol1lldi2cq0uulto4n@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <873c6m5vrq.fsf@pobox.com>

Andrea Griffini <agriff at tin.it> writes:

> On Sun, 25 Apr 2004 22:46:48 +0200, "GerritM" <gmuller at worldonline.nl>
> wrote:
[...] 
> I'm very new to python, but anyway this is my solution to 8
> queen's problem:
[...]

I think there's an n-queens solution by Tim Peters somewhere, written
as an example of Python simple generators (which is mostly 'his'
language feature, IIRC).


John


From rawbobb at hotmail.com  Thu Apr 29 20:28:13 2004
From: rawbobb at hotmail.com (bobb)
Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2004 00:28:13 GMT
Subject: Is it possible to choose a better way?
References: <uWsjc.266188$Pk3.103061@pd7tw1no>
	<gQtjc.426$id.6246@news2.e.nsc.no>
Message-ID: <x4hkc.4708$wY.910@nwrdny03.gnilink.net>


"Leif B. Kristensen" <junkmail at solumslekt.org> wrote in message
news:gQtjc.426$id.6246 at news2.e.nsc.no...
> Alpha wrote:
>
> > Although there might not be anything wrong with simple honest work
> > Ask yourself if you would prefer smarter work, that produces more, or
> > simpler work, that produces less?
>
> > To receive fast confidential delivery send 10* to:
>
> Yeah, everyone who wants to know how to get money for nothing can just
> send me 10 bucks in an envelope.

I refuse to send money to people for no good reason unless they have paypal.
;)

>
> How it actually works is left as an exercise for the reader.
>
> regards,
> --
> Leif Biberg Kristensen
> http://solumslekt.org/
> Validare necesse est




From jacek.generowicz at cern.ch  Thu Apr 22 18:53:58 2004
From: jacek.generowicz at cern.ch (Jacek Generowicz)
Date: 23 Apr 2004 00:53:58 +0200
Subject: AOP use cases
References: <84fc4588.0404140106.3fa0c55@posting.google.com>
	<slrnc7q1ss.1aa.alf@largo.fayauffre.org>
	<cb035744.0404141130.170f51c4@posting.google.com>
	<slrnc7sgat.vp.alf@largo.fayauffre.org>
	<cb035744.0404160442.2f0b1661@posting.google.com>
	<0pydnSB4WYuieuLdRVn-hQ@powergate.ca>
	<tyfbrlkv3ae.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
	<XYmdnVLB9rjbARrdRVn-vg@powergate.ca>
	<tyf7jw8utoo.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
	<c68fj5$7bt$1@news1.wdf.sap-ag.de>
	<tyfvfjst2k9.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
Message-ID: <tyffzav62ux.fsf@lxplus054.cern.ch>

Jacek Generowicz <jacek.generowicz at cern.ch> writes:

> Stupid example:

Let's give a better one, which is still short

# Mix concerns of calculating Fibonnaci numbers, and avoiding
# recalculating the same answer repeatedly

def fib(n):
    if n<2: return 1
    try:
        return fib.cache[n]
    except KeyError:
        return fib.cache.setdefault(n, fib(n-1)+fib(n-2))
fib.cache = {}

###############################################################

# Deal with avoiding recalculating the same answer repeatedly
def memoize(fn):
    cache = {}
    def proxy(*args):
        try:
            return cache[args]
        except KeyError:
            return cache.setdefault(args, fn(*args))
    return proxy

# Deal with calculating Fibonnaci numbers
def fib(n):
    if n<2: return 1
    return fib(n-1) + fib(n-2)

# Weave
fib = memoize(fib)



> Is this AOP? Should I care?
> 
> Is it useful? Should I care?
> 
> (I guess the way one answers questions 2 and 4, is ... err
> ... interesting.)


From http  Thu Apr 15 16:35:19 2004
From: http (Paul Rubin)
Date: 15 Apr 2004 13:35:19 -0700
Subject: Automatic, portable optimization of global access
References: <5d83790c.0404150721.46a3b5d0@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <7xvfk17zeg.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

python at rcn.com (Raymond Hettinger) writes:
> FWIW, I've posted a brief, but powerful recipe for a bytecode
> optimization that saves known globals as constants:
> 
>     http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Cookbook/Python/Recipe/277940
> 
> It's not psyco, but it does run everywhere and is easy to use.

This looks important and will clean up a lot of code, but what happens
if the function calls exec or eval, or assigns something into
globals(), or whatever?


From mark at prothon.org  Tue Apr 27 16:13:25 2004
From: mark at prothon.org (Mark Hahn)
Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2004 13:13:25 -0700
Subject: Why we will use obj$func() often
References: <d2Uhc.22272$dZ1.1600@fed1read04> <84Uhc.22278$dZ1.5087@fed1read04>
	<mailman.927.1082665370.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<8AWhc.23114$dZ1.11070@fed1read04> <40883BFE.B381518A@alcyone.com>
	<27_hc.23801$dZ1.2716@fed1read04> <40887145.789A2FE8@alcyone.com>
	<7cki80hj976bia36lhf9er97v073o1pqvm@4ax.com>
	<w8dic.28710$dZ1.11206@fed1read04> <ulXiAls/KH1K089yn@the-wire.com>
	<lkfic.29767$dZ1.17301@fed1read04>
	<donn-66132E.15345723042004@nntp3.u.washington.edu>
	<PLhic.30493$dZ1.22063@fed1read04>
	<c6huj3$c3s3f$1@ID-169208.news.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <u8zjc.7394$Qy.127@fed1read04>

Greg Ewing wrote:

> On the other hand, replacing it with a keyword such
> as "outer" would make it highly suggestive, to the
> point where I'd wager most people wouldn't have to
> look it up at all.

What do you mean by keyword?  Which do you mean?

1) outer x      # x is declared to come from outer scope

2) outer.x      # outer is prefix replacing &

Form 1 is very non-P*thonic.  I was happy to get rid of the global keyword
and I'd hate to see this one show up.

Form 2 would cause more confusion than &var because the reader would just
think it was a local variable and not even think to look it up.  At least
the &var would signal that something unusual was happening.

Is there a third usage you mean that I'm missing?




From beliavsky at aol.com  Tue Apr 27 15:39:18 2004
From: beliavsky at aol.com (beliavsky at aol.com)
Date: 27 Apr 2004 12:39:18 -0700
Subject: debugging code
Message-ID: <3064b51d.0404271139.6ec7057@posting.google.com>

If I have some debugging code in a Python program (mostly print
statements) and I want to turn it "off", two obvious methods are to
(1) comment out the code 
(2) set a logical 'debug' variable at the beginning and use it to
conditionally run the debugging code.

Is there a better way? Some other languages have conditional
compilation. (I don't know if that is better or worse). What is the
"best" way to maintain "production" and "debugging" versions of a
Python program at the same time, preferably in the same file?


From sholden at holdenweb.com  Fri Apr 30 15:38:04 2004
From: sholden at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2004 15:38:04 -0400
Subject: Python Image Library (PIL) build error on Cygwin
In-Reply-To: <20040430193031.GA1728@tishler.net>
References: <tBdkc.8799$f_5.5103@lakeread01>
	<mailman.127.1083272332.25742.python-list@python.org>
	<40928190.5060004@holdenweb.com>
	<20040430193031.GA1728@tishler.net>
Message-ID: <4092AB1C.8050101@holdenweb.com>

Jason Tishler wrote:

>Steve,
>
>On Fri, Apr 30, 2004 at 12:40:48PM -0400, Steve Holden wrote:
>  
>
>>Yup, now I can't find the Tk library,
>>    
>>
>
>Does the following from the Cygwin Python README help?
>
>    4. _tkinter users should note that Cygwin tcltk is really a Win32
>    package and hence, does *not* understand Cygwin style paths.  To use
>    the _tkinter module you must define the following environment
>    variables:
>
>        $ export TCL_LIBRARY=$(cygpath -w /usr/share/tcl$version)
>        $ export TK_LIBRARY=$(cygpath -w /usr/share/tk$version)
>

Unfortunately that doesn't seem to help:

sholden at DELLBOY ~/install/Imaging-1.1.4
$ export TCL_LIBRARY=$(cygpath -w /usr/share/tcl8.4)

sholden at DELLBOY ~/install/Imaging-1.1.4
$ export TK_LIBRARY=$(cygpath -w /usr/share/tk8.4)

sholden at DELLBOY ~/install/Imaging-1.1.4
$ python setup.py build
running build
running build_py
running build_ext
building '_imagingtk' extension
gcc -shared -Wl,--enable-auto-image-base 
build/temp.cygwin-1.5.9-i686-2.3/_imagingtk.o 
build/temp.cygwin-1.5.9-i686-2.3/Tk/tkImaging.o -LlibImaging 
-L/usr/lib/python2.3/config -lImaging -ltk8.4 -ltcl8.4 -lpython2.3 -o 
build/lib.cygwin-1.5.9
-i686-2.3/_imagingtk.dll
/usr/lib/gcc-lib/i686-pc-cygwin/3.3.1/../../../../i686-pc-cygwin/bin/ld: 
cannot find -ltk8.4
collect2: ld returned 1 exit status
error: command 'gcc' failed with exit status 1

I'm wondering if I might need to download extra libraries, but I can't 
see anything appropriate.

regards
 Steve





From http  Sat Apr  3 17:19:57 2004
From: http (Paul Rubin)
Date: 03 Apr 2004 14:19:57 -0800
Subject: Python is faster than C
References: <406F0907.96F37EA1@tunes.org>
Message-ID: <7xy8pcogaa.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

Armin Rigo <arigo at tunes.org> writes:
> >>> enumerate([6,7,8,9])         # uh ?
> <enumerate object at 0x401a102c>
> 
> I know you can always do list(_).  My point is that this is a
> user-visible optimization.  enumerate() should return a normal list, and
> it should be someone else's job to ensure that it is correctly optimized
> away if possible (and I'm not even talking about Psyco, it could be done
> in the current Python implementation with a reasonable amount of
> effort).

I think enumerate(xrange(1000000000)) returning a normal list would
exhaust memory before some later optimizer had a chance to do anything
with it.  


From max at alcyone.com  Sat Apr  3 17:46:50 2004
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Sat, 03 Apr 2004 14:46:50 -0800
Subject: minor bug in cmath.asin?
References: <m3y8pcr8u9.fsf@localhost.localdomain>
Message-ID: <406F3EDA.970F953A@alcyone.com>

Edwin Young wrote:

> I think it should be 0+0j (+0 for both parts). The official formula is
> at
> 
> http://functions.wolfram.com/ElementaryFunctions/ArcSin/02/

Well this is Mathematica's official formula ... :-).

> and is asin(z) = -i * log(i*z + sqrt(1 - z*z))
> 
> Which is slightly ambiguous. I read it as:
> 
> (+0 - 1i) * log(i*z + sqrt(1 - z*z))

How is the original equation amiguous?

-- 
 __ Erik Max Francis && max at alcyone.com && http://www.alcyone.com/max/
/  \ San Jose, CA, USA && 37 20 N 121 53 W && AIM erikmaxfrancis
\__/ You cannot step into the same river once.
    -- Cratylus


From Firewalls-Owner at greatcircle.com  Thu Apr  8 21:25:20 2004
From: Firewalls-Owner at greatcircle.com (Firewalls-Owner at greatcircle.com)
Date: Thu,  8 Apr 2004 18:25:20 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Your mail to Firewalls
In-Reply-To: <20040409012512.B5E9F32D605@mycroft.greatcircle.com>,
	from python-list@python.org
Message-ID: <20040409012520.AE56732DDCB@mycroft.greatcircle.com>

This pre-recorded message is being sent in response to your recent
email to Firewalls.

The Firewalls mailing list has moved to "Firewalls at ISC.ORG".

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From shalabh at cafepy.com  Fri Apr  9 19:58:44 2004
From: shalabh at cafepy.com (Shalabh Chaturvedi)
Date: Fri, 09 Apr 2004 16:58:44 -0700
Subject: Simple Class Question - need clarity please
References: <EYFdc.51749$Id.27192@news-binary.blueyonder.co.uk>
Message-ID: <c57d6q$m9c$1@sea.gmane.org>

Stevie_mac wrote:

> OK, 1st off, I'm brand new to python so all help is appreciated. Right...
> 
> Lets say I want a class called Window.  It will have some functions namely
> DoModal() Now this class is inherited in MyClass
> What is wrong with this?...

<examples of working and non working code snipped>

> 
> . . . I get
> NameError: global name 'MakeDlgTemplate' is not defined  ???

On which line in your example do you get this error (from the traceback)?

> 
> another 1 I managed to clear up was . . .
> TypeError: Show() takes no arguments (1 given)
> . . . until I added 'self' to the Show function  ???

Going through the Python tutorial should clear this up and other confusions
as well. To quote "the method function is declared with an explicit first
argument representing the object, which is provided implicitly by the
call". I urge you read the entire section on classes [1].
 
> 
> I really am struggling with this - some real clarity is needed - can
> anyone explain the rules (I've read stuff &
> dissected samples, but I still struggle when it comes to this.  If someone
> can clear this up for me, I should be flying as I am familiar with the
> concepts of OOP)
> 
> I'm also struggling with other things like...
> Where do I save .py files?
> Will 'import' find my files where ever they are? (obviously not but...)

Look for PYTHONPATH and sys.path in the documentation. Hmm, now I urge you
to go through the entire tutorial - it doesn't take long!

> What basic should be considerations when deriving classes?
> 
> any help will be greatly appreciated - Ta Stevie_Mac
> 
> 

HTH,
Shalabh

[1] http://python.org/doc/2.3.3/tut/node11.html





From imbosol at aerojockey.invalid  Sat Apr 24 17:49:28 2004
From: imbosol at aerojockey.invalid (Carl Banks)
Date: Sat, 24 Apr 2004 21:49:28 GMT
Subject: python for console game development, memory tracking
References: <6soic.40551$c77.17448@newssvr29.news.prodigy.com>
Message-ID: <IhBic.8575$Gp.6977@fe1.columbus.rr.com>

Moosebumps wrote:
> 
> 
> When I have time, I am planning to evaluate Python for console game
> development (on Playstation 2, GameCube, and Xbox).  Does anyone have any
> experience with this?
> 
> Pretty much the only resource I have found, and the only thing that makes me
> think it might be possible is this:
> 
> http://asbahr.com/python.html
> 
> I would be interested to hear anybody's experience with Python on consoles.

I can't speak for Game Cube or XBOX, but I have a Playstation running
Linux, so I know a little.  I suspect Game Cube and XBOX have similar,
but less severe, concerns.  Of course, since my Playstation has Linux
and a big ol' hard drive, I am not constrained with memory as much as
a native PS2 game would be.

It seems that Python works just fine.  I was able to control graphics
straight from Python using Numeric and a little C wrapper, and it
worked pretty well.  It wasn't much of a demo, though, and of course
almost all of the graphics work would be done from C anyways.  I don't
have much more experience than a few graphics demos, though.

One thing that bothers me a little is that Python uses double
precision floats, but PS2 only supports single-precision natively.  I
suspect most calculation-type code would be done in C, though.


> Before I even begin investigating though, there is a major question I have:
> How can you track the memory usage of Python?  I would like to be able to
> track allocations by function / class, etc.  I have googled and seen a bunch
> of threads with 1 guy asking the same exact question that I am, and no
> responses, which leads me to believe it's very easy or not possible.  This
> would be dealbreaker unfortunately.  But I am optimistic that Python is well
> designed so there must be some solution.

You're right that memory is probably the biggest factor against Python
use, at least if you don't patch it.  If you use it for production
work, I don't think there's any way you'd be able to use Python's
regular memory allocation.  So, seeing that you'd have to use your own
memory allocation, you can keep track of the stuff yourself.  Or you
can use a library that works on PS2 and also does what you need.


-- 
CARL BANKS                      http://www.aerojockey.com/software
"If you believe in yourself, drink your school, stay on drugs, and
don't do milk, you can get work." 
          -- Parody of Mr. T from a Robert Smigel Cartoon


From michele.simionato at poste.it  Wed Apr  7 04:18:55 2004
From: michele.simionato at poste.it (Michele Simionato)
Date: 7 Apr 2004 01:18:55 -0700
Subject: Using function parameters to determine method kind
References: <4qrzym6e.fsf@telus.net>
	<95aa1afa.0404050417.2d11b369@posting.google.com>
	<8yh9r7p2.fsf@telus.net>
	<95aa1afa.0404060309.32629338@posting.google.com>
	<u0zwyeq2.fsf@telus.net>
Message-ID: <95aa1afa.0404070018.c28b43b@posting.google.com>

Lenard Lindstrom <len-1 at telus.net> wrote in message news:<u0zwyeq2.fsf at telus.net>...
> By descriptor I mean wrapper classes like staticmethod. A naked function
> can only be an instance method descriptor, which by convention has
> a first parameter of 'self'. __new__ is exceptional in that it is an
> instance method that is always called as an unbound method. I see though
> that __new__ would break if accidentally made a class method.

Descriptors are a protocol. If an object has a __get__ method it is a
descriptor. Python functions, methods, staticmethods, classmethods,
etc.
are all descriptors. A naked function is a descriptor, even if a 
different descriptor from a bound/unbound method or a
staticmethod/classmethod; it can be converted in a staticmethod or a
classmethod or other user-defined
of descriptors. __new__ is a function which is automatically converted
to
a staticmethod and in this sense it is a special case (whereas
__init__ is
not). I think you already know all that, it was just to fix the
terminology.

> But isn't type.__call__ the factory function for
> all new-style objects, not just classes?


type.__call__ is tricky since "type" is its own metaclass. 
What do you have in mind exactly? Classes (as opposed to poor
man instances that cannot be instantiated) are made by type.__new__
which is called by type(type).__call__ which is type.__call__.

This snippet should explain the dynamics of meta-metaclasses (which
I think you understand already, but your explanation is a bit
confusing):

class MM(type):
    def __call__(mcl,name,bases,dic):
        print "calling MM.__call__"
        return super(MM,mcl).__call__(name,bases,dic)


class M(type):
    __metaclass__=MM
    def __new__(mcl,name,bases,dic):
        print "calling M.__new__"
        return super(M,mcl).__new__(mcl,name,bases,dic)


class C(object):
    """This class is created by the metaclass M, so M.__new__ is
called,
    but not directly. First type(M).__call__ is called, i.e.
MM.__call__"""
    __metaclass__=M

The output is:

calling MM.__call__
calling M.__new__

> All this talk about python functions just being another kind
> of descriptor makes me wonder if it is not time to revive
> the idea of having type function subclassable:

You may want to look at this thread:

http://groups.google.it/groups?hl=it&lr=&ie=UTF-8&threadm=95aa1afa.0402262158.5b33de79%40posting.google.com&rnum=1&prev=/groups%3Fhl%3Dit%26lr%3D%26ie%3DISO-8859-1%26q%3Dsimionato%2Bfeature%2Brequest%26btnG%3DCerca%2Bcon%2BGoogle%26meta%3Dgroup%253Dcomp.lang.python.*


From noemail at noemail4u.com  Wed Apr  7 08:01:54 2004
From: noemail at noemail4u.com (Dang Griffith)
Date: Wed, 07 Apr 2004 12:01:54 GMT
Subject: Newbie need help
References: <Xns94C26A85EAAC4Help..recipe.4.9.in.@130.139.56.200>
Message-ID: <95368f1036574b5125a91c1fe05dad71@news.teranews.com>

On Mon, 05 Apr 2004 09:28:18 GMT, Tony Ha <tony.ha at philips.com> wrote:

>Question from a newbie. 
>
>In the interactive Python shell.
>
>1. How do I find out where I am in the file system under WindowXP?
>
>   I try os.curdir, which only give '.' back, I would like a full path
>like the Unix 'pwd' give.
>
>2. How do I change directory under WindowXp?
>
>   I try os.chdir('C:\Downloads\Python\SOAPpy-0.11.3\fpconst-0.6.0')
>but I get the following Error message:
>
>Traceback (most recent call last):
>  File "<input>", line 1, in ?
>OSError: [Errno 22] Invalid argument: 'C:\\Downloads\\Python\\SOAPpy-0.11.3
>\x0cpconst-0.6.0'
>
>
>Can any body help, thanks!!
Other folks answers are true, but you also might look into install
IPython.  It's a shell around the standard python interactive shell,
and it provides commands like pwd and cd and so forth.
You can get it at "http://ipython.scipy.org".
    --dang


From pugnatio2 at yahoo.com  Tue Apr 27 12:05:49 2004
From: pugnatio2 at yahoo.com (pugnatio2 at yahoo.com)
Date: 27 Apr 2004 09:05:49 -0700
Subject: Implement new editing format/through-the-web site management?
Message-ID: <997a06e0.0404270805.72b15909@posting.google.com>

Hi,

I'm a Zope newbie but an experienced Python programmer. Could someone
suggest a general approach for the two parts below?

1) I'd like to build a system that stores XML documents in the ZODB
and allows them to be edited through the web in a new text format. The
format is similar to StructuredText and can be translated to XML and
vice versa, using Python methods.

2) The second part of system would be to maintain the site map as an
XML document, also in the ZODB, and allow it to be edited using a
tree-like HTML form or javascript interface, so that the structure of
the entire site could be managed interactively from a single page.
Elements in the site map XML would point to the IDs of XML objects
stored in the ZODB. These pointers could be moved around by editing
the site map. The Zope folder hierarchy would not drive the structure
of the site, the XML document would.

Is it a simple matter to override the editing interface to accomplish
(1)? And does (2) seem unnecessary, given Zope's virtual hierarchy of
objects and folders, which you get automatically? Being able to deal
with the entire site at a glance seemed advantageous to me.

I would prefer to use page templates, not DTML, if possible, and I'd
like to create a self-sufficient Zope product that can be installed
and used "out of the box" by anyone else.

Any tips/comments/flames would be appreciated.

Thanks in advance,

--toby


From claird at lairds.com  Fri Apr 30 17:51:41 2004
From: claird at lairds.com (Cameron Laird)
Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2004 21:51:41 -0000
Subject: calling functions at the same time
References: <c6udda$qpv$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu>
Message-ID: <1095ijdb5jotvf1@corp.supernews.com>

In article <c6udda$qpv$1 at solaris.cc.vt.edu>,
bart_nessux  <bart_nessux at hotmail.com> wrote:
>I need a script to call several functions at the same time. How does one 
>call more than one function simultaneously?
>
>
>

This has several smart-alecky answers, including "you don't", 
and "with co-routines".  The best way you can help yourself is
to describe a concrete situation where your (Python?) script
has a need to call even two functions simultaneously.  It turns
out "simultaneously" has a plethora of meanings, and you're the
only one in a position to get others to understand which you 
have in mind.

It'll also help to know whether you mean "function" as specific
to the Python language, or more abstractly, as a unit of useful
accomplishment.
-- 

Cameron Laird <claird at phaseit.net>
Business:  http://www.Phaseit.net


From davidb at mcs.st-and.ac.uk  Mon Apr  5 06:05:59 2004
From: davidb at mcs.st-and.ac.uk (David Boddie)
Date: 5 Apr 2004 03:05:59 -0700
Subject: So near and yet so far... (trying to install PyQt on OS X)
References: <slrnc719b7.g82.kmmcdonald@g4.gateway.2wire.net>
Message-ID: <4de76ee2.0404050205.67f486b@posting.google.com>

Kenneth McDonald <kmmcdonald at wisc.edu> wrote in message news:<slrnc719b7.g82.kmmcdonald at g4.gateway.2wire.net>...
> I'm trying to get QT, SIP, and PyQt installed so I can try
> out the Python editor eric. Both sip and qt appear to have
> compiled and installed properly. Unfortunately, PyQt,
> after compiling most of the files and starting what I
> suspect is the final link step, fails with the follwing
> message (I've included a few lines above for context):
> ---------------

[Output snipped]

> -------------
> and, though I can do some fiddling with make files, I sure
> as heck have no idea what to do about this. I would really
> appreciate advice on this one, because I'll never solve it
> on my own.

Ken, you might want to report your problem on the PyQt/PyKDE
mailing list (http://mats.imk.fraunhofer.de/mailman/listinfo/pykde).
If you don't get around to doing that within a few days, and if
nobody's replied here, I'll forward your message on.

The output you provided indicated that libsip may not be installed
in an expected place. Have you tried specifying the -s flag when
configuring PyQt?

David


From roy at panix.com  Sat Apr 10 18:28:22 2004
From: roy at panix.com (Roy Smith)
Date: Sat, 10 Apr 2004 18:28:22 -0400
Subject: Python is the best and most popular general purpose scripting
	language; the universal scripting language
References: <a5415304.0404101350.271088f2@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <roy-22B4DA.18282210042004@reader1.panix.com>

rstephens at vectron.com (Ron Stephens) wrote:
> Python is the best and most popular general purpose scripting
> language.

Which raises the question, exactly what makes something a "scripting" 
langauge?  When I tell people I do Python, they often say something 
like, "that's a scripting language, right?".  My usual response is 
something along the lines of "Well, I suppose that depends on who you 
ask" and I'm not sure what to say after that.

So, what makes something a "scripting language" as opposed to a 
"programming language"?


From look at sig.please  Fri Apr  2 03:32:12 2004
From: look at sig.please (Volker Gietz)
Date: Fri, 02 Apr 2004 10:32:12 +0200
Subject: The joys of Python
Message-ID: <c4j7rn$dd7$2@news.lf.net>

Hello all,

I have been using Python for almost a year now and by now I do 95% of my
programming in it except some DSP stuff in C++. I learnt Python's basics
in one week, yet the language still amazes me every day. Elegant
solutions just keep cropping up everywhere, it must be one of these
brain-impedance matches I suppose :-)

Yesterday I came up with this:

   class Channel:
       ## Acts as a function call wrapper, a call to one instance
       ## calls all other wrapped functions on the (broadcast) channel
       def __init__(self, func, other=None):
           self.all = (other and other.all) or []
           self.all.append(self)
           self.func = func

       def __call__(self, *args):
           for item in self.all:
               item.func(*args)

       ## join other channel ("tune in")
       def join(self, other):
           self.all.remove(self)
           self.all = other.all
           self.all.append(self)


Now I can easily create:

   from UserList import UserList

   class SyncList(UserList):
       def __init__(self):
           UserList.__init__(self)
           self.append = Channel(self.append)
           self.extend = Channel(self.extend)

       def __repr__(self):
           return repr(self.data)

       ## synchronise to other list
       def join(self, other):
           self.append.join(other.append)
           self.extend.join(other.extend)


And this allows for automatic peer-to-peer list synchronisation:

>>> l1 = SyncList()
>>> l2 = SyncList()
>>> l2.join(l1)
>>> l1.append(1)
>>> l1.extend((2, 3, 4))
>>> l1
[1, 2, 3, 4]
>>> l2
[1, 2, 3, 4]
>>> l1 is l2
False
    qed :)

Of course, all mutating methods need to be wrapped. The "classic"
approach would have been to have one conrete broadcaster and do

   def append(self, items):
       for child in self.children:
           child.append(items)

   def extend(self, items):
       for child in self.children:
           child.extend(items)

   ... yawn!


Bottom line is, I like Python a lot! It is certainly the bright side of
coding.

Cheers,
    Volker

________________________________________________________________________
            ___
    e-mail:  |alphir at \/\/eb.de





From vranganath at sbcglobal.net  Fri Apr 30 21:10:51 2004
From: vranganath at sbcglobal.net (Venkatesh Prasad Ranganath)
Date: Sat, 01 May 2004 01:10:51 GMT
Subject: IDE for Python
In-Reply-To: <pan.2004.05.01.00.55.19.899197@phreaker.net>
References: <mailman.164.1083359859.25742.python-list@python.org>
	<pan.2004.05.01.00.55.19.899197@phreaker.net>
Message-ID: <vOCkc.5406$rK7.2986@newssvr23.news.prodigy.com>

Nuff Said wrote:
> On Fri, 30 Apr 2004 14:17:32 -0700, dont bother wrote:
> 
>>Is there any good IDE for Python. I checked on
>>www.python.org and found some. Installed bluefish but
>>to my surprise its just an editor. I guess it cannot
>>even compile my code in python or maybe I am wrong.
> 
> 
> Why an IDE? Python is - IMO - (one of) THE languages, where
> a good editor (tabs2spaces, comment blocks, select encoding, 
> syntax highlighting, auto-indentation, scriptable ...) is all 
> you really need. 
> 
> (Bluefish ain't the editor of your choice here; write your own 
> from scrap or write one using Scintilla; resp. use SciTE with 
> a good customization file; or go for (X)Emacs resp. Vim.)
> 
> HTH, Nuff.
> 
Try eric3 at http://www.die-offenbachs.de/detlev/eric3.html

-- 

Venkatesh Prasad Ranganath,
Dept. Computing and Information Science,
Kansas State University, US.
web: http://www.cis.ksu.edu/~rvprasad


From jacek.generowicz at cern.ch  Wed Apr  7 07:32:49 2004
From: jacek.generowicz at cern.ch (Jacek Generowicz)
Date: 07 Apr 2004 13:32:49 +0200
Subject: OFF-TOPIC:: Why Lisp is not my favorite programming language
References: <165b3efa.0403030443.4d591f04@posting.google.com>
	<40460dd5$0$5916$7a628cd7@news.club-internet.fr>
	<d771b842.0403040735.3b5200ae@posting.google.com>
	<e87fc4b0.0403221114.254b7ee5@posting.google.com>
	<d771b842.0404061258.655b8e56@posting.google.com>
	<6in670lrldbjkuujle68a526293j57a7mn@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <tyfu0zwvx9a.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>

Stephen Horne <steve at ninereeds.fsnet.co.uk> writes:

> It wouldn't surprise me. LISP is normally interpreted - maybe
> always,

Hmm.

Lemme see, here are some popular Common Lisp systems:

Clisp: http://clisp.cons.org/ - includes an interpreter and bytecode
compiler.

CMUCL: http://www.cons.org/cmucl/ - includes an interpreter bytecode
complier and native compiler.

SBCL: http://sbcl.sourceforge.net/ - has no interpreter; interactive REPL[1]
complies everything to native immediately.

OpenMCL: http://openmcl.clozure.com/ - has no interpreter; interactive
REPL compiles everything to native.

Allegro: http://www.franz.com/products/ - includes an interpreter and
native compiler.

LispWorks: http://www.lispworks.com/ - includes an interpreter and
native compiler.

MCL: http://www.digitool.com/ - has no interpreter; interactive REPL compiles
everything to native as soon as it is entered.

Corman: http://www.cormanlisp.com/ - includes a native compiler



[1] REPL - Read Eval Print Loop. Essentially what Python's interactive
    shell is.


Now just what do you mean when you say "LISP is normally interpreted" ?

(Note: only one of the 8 systems mentioned above does not have a
native compilation facility, while three of them give you no way of
avoiding compiling to native.)


From newsgroups at jhrothjr.com  Sat Apr 17 21:33:56 2004
From: newsgroups at jhrothjr.com (John Roth)
Date: Sat, 17 Apr 2004 21:33:56 -0400
Subject: Proposed PEP: Treating Builtins as Constants in the Standard
	Library
References: <5d83790c.0404171557.3db69f48@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <1083mp12c9qs3dc@news.supernews.com>


"Raymond Hettinger" <python at rcn.com> wrote in message
news:5d83790c.0404171557.3db69f48 at posting.google.com...
> Comments are invited on the following proposed PEP.
>
>
> Raymond Hettinger

It certainly looks interesting. What's the possibility
of also eliminating the extra function call on global
functions like len() at the same time?

John Roth




From peter at engcorp.com  Mon Apr 12 07:22:26 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2004 07:22:26 -0400
Subject: maximum length of a list & tuple
In-Reply-To: <AtKdnTLAMJ2K5ufdRVn-vw@powergate.ca>
References: <c54lq3$2pe1sf$1@ID-202776.news.uni-berlin.de>
	<bvednZaKK7OybejdRVn-iQ@centurytel.net>
	<c55okv$2o3eql$1@ID-202776.news.uni-berlin.de>
	<c59igu$hto$1@news.service.uci.edu>
	<hlhh70drqg7fhvn9e3keosdvdp01ulok7r@4ax.com>
	<c5avps$qh$1@news.service.uci.edu>
	<LKWdnSm0Fq4VZuTdRVn-ug@powergate.ca>
	<c5d7e1$iib$1@news.service.uci.edu>
	<AtKdnTLAMJ2K5ufdRVn-vw@powergate.ca>
Message-ID: <AtKdnSzAMJ1s5ufdRVn-vw@powergate.ca>

Peter Hansen wrote:

> Josiah Carlson wrote:
> 
>> Checking the memory usage of Python before and after the creation of 1 
>> million integer list, I get a /very/ consistant ~16 bytes per.  That 
>> would be 12 bytes for the object, and 4 bytes for each pointer in the 
>> list.  
> 
> Please post the expression you are using, for comparison.

By the way, in case it wasn't clear, we have a disagreement (and perhaps
a misunderstanding) only about the meaning of the original code posted.
You believe it is allocating many integers.  I believe it allocates
only a single one.  Perhaps one of us is wrong.  I hadn't read the code
in great detail, and still haven't, and perhaps that's my mistake.
Depending on your reply, I'll actually go back and look at it closely
and perhaps execute it myself and see the result (in terms of the list
produced, not in terms of the memory consumption).  Maybe you will
do the same and we'll identify which of us is mistaken...

-Peter


From jeffbarish at starband.net  Mon Apr 19 18:16:53 2004
From: jeffbarish at starband.net (Jeffrey Barish)
Date: Mon, 19 Apr 2004 16:16:53 -0600
Subject: Tkinter: Selecting one item in each of two listboxes
Message-ID: <c61j4n$h7s$1@sea.gmane.org>

I have an application that produces two listboxes.  I would like to be
able to select one of the items in the first listbox and one of the
items in the second listbox.  However, when I make my selection in the
second listbox, the selected item in the first listbox gets deselected. 
Is there a way to do this?  I tried setting selectmode to MULTIPLE, but
that option only allows me to select multiple items in one of the
listboxes (both of which get deselected when I make a selection in the
second listbox).

I create the listboxes as follows:

listbox1_frame = Frame(root)
listbox1_frame.pack()
listbox1 = Listbox(listbox1_frame, width = 40, height = 12)
listbox1.pack()

listbox2_frame = Frame(root)
listbox2_frame.pack()
listbox2 = Listbox(listbox2_frame, width = 40, height = 8)
listbox2.pack()

-- 
Jeffrey Barish




From andymac at bullseye.apana.org.au  Tue Apr  6 07:46:25 2004
From: andymac at bullseye.apana.org.au (Andrew MacIntyre)
Date: Tue, 6 Apr 2004 21:46:25 +1000 (EST)
Subject: Type checking inside a C extension... doesn't throw exception
 on failure
In-Reply-To: <407229F6.6080809@yahoo.com>
References: <c4qdfh$2l5b73$1@ID-180326.news.uni-berlin.de>
	<40712D9E.3050802@prescod.net> <407229F6.6080809@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20040406213924.K97937@bullseye.apana.org.au>

On Tue, 6 Apr 2004, Jon Perez wrote:

>    // PyString_AsString(strobj);  // raises exception
>    strcpy(strstr,PyString_AsString(strobj));  /* crashes!! */
>
>    Py_INCREF(Py_None);
>    return Py_None;
> }
>
> What gives? Shouldn't the exception be raised within PyString_AsString()
> before it even gets a chance to return a value to strcpy()?

First rule of using the Python C API: _always_ check the return value of
API functions.

In the case you exhibit, if the return value of PyString_AsString is NULL,
a TypeError exception will have been set and you should immediately
return NULL.

When the interpreter gets a NULL return from a called function, it checks
for an exception.  If you don't return NULL, it can't detect the exception
until some other unrelated event turns it up.

--
Andrew I MacIntyre                     "These thoughts are mine alone..."
E-mail: andymac at bullseye.apana.org.au  (pref) | Snail: PO Box 370
        andymac at pcug.org.au             (alt) |        Belconnen  ACT  2616
Web:    http://www.andymac.org/               |        Australia



From rstephens at vectron.com  Sat Apr 10 22:36:22 2004
From: rstephens at vectron.com (Ron Stephens)
Date: 10 Apr 2004 19:36:22 -0700
Subject: Python is the best and most popular general purpose scripting
	language; the universal scripting language
References: <a5415304.0404101350.271088f2@posting.google.com>
	<roy-22B4DA.18282210042004@reader1.panix.com>
	<c59u4k$ki9$1@atlantis.news.tpi.pl>
Message-ID: <a5415304.0404101836.48909210@posting.google.com>

Jarek Zgoda <jzgoda at gazeta.usun.pl> wrote in message news:<c59u4k$ki9$1 at atlantis.news.tpi.pl>...
> Roy Smith <roy at panix.com> pisze:
> 
> > So, what makes something a "scripting language" as opposed to a 
> > "programming language"?
> 
> I think the opposition of "scripting language" would be "general purpose
> language", not "programming language".
 

Hmm, yes, I think you are all correct. I was a little sloppy in my
choice of the words "programming language" to oppose "scripting
language".

I guess my main point is, Python is the best general purpose scripting
language. Maybe I (and maybe some other folks too?) sort of wanted
Python to out-compete Java and C#: but it isn't happening. Likewise,
as someone said, Perl is definitely more popular still than Python,
BUT, I think Python is more general purpose than Perl. Perl has a heck
of a lot of libraries (CPAN etc) and Perl is great for text
processing; I also can't help but notice that Perl is the most
commonly available and well supported language for CGI. But Perl
doesn't get used for apps like Zope and Chandler, Python does. PHP is,
for that matter, more popular than Python also, but for a limited
problem domain.

For better or worse, Python isn't going to be as entrenched in the
corporate world as Java or .Net any time soon. Neither is Python going
to displace PHP as most popular in PHP's domain, nor will Python even
surpass Perl in absolute terms any time soon.

BUT, Python is the most general purpose of the scripting languages and
this gives Python a very interesting niche for the long term. Having
Jython and now IronPython is a nice long term situation also.

This may be a case of the tortoise beating the hare; but its not going
to be just because the tortoise is the underdog and people's favorite;
Python has something very real going for it, the fact that Python is
the best and most popular general purpose scripting language.

I know some of us take offense at the very term "scripting language"
when its applied to Python, thinking that Python should be compared
directly with Java and its ilk; that was one of my motivations to post
this. I think we should get over it.

There is nothing wrong with being a scripting language. Some people
think scripting languages are the future. And Python is the best
general purpose scripting language. Python, I think, has the chance to
become the universal scripting language, the universal solvent among
programming languages, ubiquitous but certainly not alone.

Sorry for my sloppy use of words in the original post.

And, of course, many feel that it is just plain silly and pointless to
talk about which languages are most popular and which are gaining or
losing in the popularity race for the future. I hope those people will
just ignore this thread or at least not flame me too hotly ;-)))

Ron Stephens


From Chris.Barker at noaa.gov  Thu Apr 29 18:16:25 2004
From: Chris.Barker at noaa.gov (Christopher Barker)
Date: Thu, 29 Apr 2004 15:16:25 -0700
Subject: Don't understand wxPython ids
In-Reply-To: <c6q1dp$et6ah$1@ID-169208.news.uni-berlin.de>
References: <408ed938$0$17263$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
	<BOEjc.12559$eZ5.4366@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>
	<1a34m1-fml.ln1@home.rogerbinns.com>
	<c6q1dp$et6ah$1@ID-169208.news.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <c6rvpu$vgt$1@news.nems.noaa.gov>

Greg Ewing wrote:

> Use of a number here seems to be entirely the result
> of blindly carrying over a feature of the C++-oriented
> API into Python.

Honestly, that's exactly what it is. wxPython is a wrapper around a VERY 
large C++ toolkit. It uses SWIG to create wrappers that pretty much 
match the C++ API. This has had two big advantages:

1) Robin Dunn could actually get it working in a relatively short period 
of time

2) the docs match as well, so We had a pretty complete (if confusing) 
set of docs from the beginning

Note that neither of these has anything to do with what a good Python 
API is, but I don't think we'd have wxPython at all if Robin had set out 
to make the best API he could.

FWIW, wxPython is slowly growing more "pythonic" wrappers. There are 
also a couple of efforts to make another layer between wxPython and the 
user:

PythonCard
Wax
MindWrapper

Of these, PythonCard is probably the farthest along.

-Chris

-- 
Christopher Barker, Ph.D.
Oceanographer
                                     		
NOAA/OR&R/HAZMAT         (206) 526-6959   voice
7600 Sand Point Way NE   (206) 526-6329   fax
Seattle, WA  98115       (206) 526-6317   main reception

Chris.Barker at noaa.gov


From HughMacdonald at brokenpipefilms.com  Mon Apr 26 04:17:41 2004
From: HughMacdonald at brokenpipefilms.com (Hugh Macdonald)
Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2004 09:17:41 +0100
Subject: Maya API with Python?
In-Reply-To: <Xns94D75A4FA74E6cpl19ghumspamgourmet@62.153.159.134>
References: <c6i321$cbgu4$1@ID-207230.news.uni-berlin.de>
	<Xns94D75A4FA74E6cpl19ghumspamgourmet@62.153.159.134>
Message-ID: <20040426091741.444f2fa8.HughMacdonald@brokenpipefilms.com>

On Mon, 26 Apr 2004 08:52:32 +0200
Harald Massa <cpl.19.ghum at spamgourmet.com> wrote:

> > Anybody tried that?  Progress or horror stories to tell?
> > 
> 
> 
> "Industrial Light & Magic Runs on Python"
> http://www.pythonology.com/success&story=ilm
> 
> 
> I am sure, they also use maya.

I suspect that this is in a similar way to us... In that Python is mainly used for scripting shell tools and GUIs - and not (as I suspect the original poster was asking) integrated into a Maya plugin...

That said, I've recently been looking at something similar with Shake - some kind of wrapper between Shake and Python and then the core workings of the plugin to be done in Python....

-- 
Hugh Macdonald
The Moving Picture Company



From jbperez808 at wahoo.com  Sat Apr 10 16:24:29 2004
From: jbperez808 at wahoo.com (Jon Perez)
Date: 10 Apr 2004 20:24:29 GMT
Subject: why is python better than eg. smalltalk?? no one has any solid
	arguments! you should all go to church with all that religious talk!
References: <mailman.440.1081414295.20120.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <c59l5o$2faa0i$1@ID-180326.news.uni-berlin.de>

eltronic at juno.com wrote:

> > Also, I see all this advocacy of python which to me seems more like 
> > religion.. there is no concretenes in it, and I completely fail to see how 
> > python beats any of the other dynamically typed languages such as 
> > smalltalk or self... what is it with you guys? :)

Python is not a religion, but could be considered a very nice work
of art.  Esthetics are difficult, sometimes impossible, to argue 
for using 'solid arguments'.

You can have a very nice, comprehensive set of features (i.e. buzzword
compliant) - which Python does - but they be implemented so awkwardly that 
the language ends up sucky (like C++).

For the past 10 years, I have been in search for a 'holy grail' of a text 
editor and a language.  Something I could absolutely devote myself to using.  
After the dozens and dozens I've tried and looked at, I can now say to 
myself that I have found what I've been looking for with SciTE and Python.

Wrt OSes, Windows XP is more or less that holy grail too (I'm proficient
in and love Slackware Linux, but Win XP is still what makes my day).


From newsgroups at jhrothjr.com  Fri Apr  2 07:56:28 2004
From: newsgroups at jhrothjr.com (John Roth)
Date: Fri, 2 Apr 2004 07:56:28 -0500
Subject: __nonzero__ of iterators
References: <c4gjup$615$1@ttt14.vie.at.tttech.ttt>
Message-ID: <106qopdnqbd0164@news.supernews.com>


"Christian Eder" <eder at tttech.com> wrote in message
news:c4gjup$615$1 at ttt14.vie.at.tttech.ttt...
> Hi,
>
> I just discovered the following pitfall in Python 2.3.
> Consider the following code :
>
>  >>> a = {}
>  >>> bool (a.keys ())
> False
>  >>> bool (a.iterkeys ())
> True
>
> So, an "empty" iterator evaluates to True in boolean context.
> At a first glance, this is not what one would expect. This causes
> several problems, e.g. if you operate on something expected to be
> sequence, and you guard your code with "if seq :" to avoid crashing into
> an empty sequence, you still crash if you get an empty iterator, even if
> the rest of your code is able to deal with an iterator as well as with
> any other sequence type.
>
> At a second glance, the behaviour is clear, since the iterator object
> does not know wheter it is able to provide the next element, before
> having done so.
>
> Anyway, although I don't know how the iterator protocol is implemented
> in Python 2.3, I suppose the __nonzero__ could be changed to check
> whether a next element can be provided without actually consuming it.
>
> I would like to read some comments on this topic as I'm sure that I'm
> not the first one wondering whether the current behaviour should be that
> way.

One of the issues is that the iterator many not be able, even in
principle, be able to figure out whether there is, in fact, a next
element. Consider a pipe or an internet connection.

However, you're talking about the special iterator that the
dictionary object returns. I'm not sure whether this behavior
is a bug or a feature. It would clearly be possible for that
iterator object to proxy the __nonzero__ call to the basic
dictionary object, and from what you show, it doesn't do so.

I belive this is a quite different issue from a "has next" type
of function.

John Roth
>
> thanks
> chris
>




From ravi_b_m at yahoo.com  Thu Apr  8 11:06:14 2004
From: ravi_b_m at yahoo.com (Ravi Mamidipaka)
Date: Thu, 8 Apr 2004 08:06:14 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Problem with python threads
Message-ID: <20040408150614.91488.qmail@web13802.mail.yahoo.com>

Hi all,
         I am running a python cgi which inturn calls
a python thread.
This python thread executes some commands and sends an
email to the
admin.
         I am facing a strange problem, in the cgi
script when I set
the python
thread to run as Daemon, then it does not send the
email, but when I
donot set the thread as daemon, it does send the
email.
        Can somebody help me as to this behaviour ? 

I am running the cgi and python scripts on linux. The
only problem I
can see is that the email module is present in
python2.3 and I have
python 2.3 installed at /usr/local/lib/python2.3 and
also have
python1.5 installed at /usr/lib/python1.5.

Is this the problem for such behaviour? Is there a way
to fix ? Could
somebody help me out please?

Thank you in advance.

Ravi.


__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Small Business $15K Web Design Giveaway 
http://promotions.yahoo.com/design_giveaway/



From roccomoretti at hotpop.com  Mon Apr 12 10:22:48 2004
From: roccomoretti at hotpop.com (Rocco Moretti)
Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2004 09:22:48 -0500
Subject: Best IDE?
In-Reply-To: <kVhec.2883$162.1981@twister.socal.rr.com>
References: <c5bg1k$25vq$1@news.wplus.net>
	<kVhec.2883$162.1981@twister.socal.rr.com>
Message-ID: <c5e8no$9e8$1@news.doit.wisc.edu>

> "Stevie_mac" <no.email at please.com> wrote in message
> news:c5bg1k$25vq$1 at news.wplus.net...
> 
>>What's the best MSwindows editor for python?  

peter top posted:

 > i like eric3

I've heard good things about Eric, but from the website:

"""
Note: In order to use eric3 under Win... operating systems you need a 
commercial or educational license of Qt 3.x from Trolltech and the 
corresponding license of PyQt (which includes QScintilla) from Riverbank.
"""

So it's not an availible choice for everyone. (Including the OP.)


From michele.simionato at poste.it  Wed Apr 21 11:29:42 2004
From: michele.simionato at poste.it (Michele Simionato)
Date: 21 Apr 2004 08:29:42 -0700
Subject: Python 2.3.3 super() behaviour
References: <40863bd7$0$25528$afc38c87@news.easynet.fr>
Message-ID: <95aa1afa.0404210729.18f6de22@posting.google.com>

"Nicolas Lehuen" <nicolas.lehuen at thecrmcompany.com> wrote in message news:<40863bd7$0$25528$afc38c87 at news.easynet.fr>...
> Hi,
> 
> I hope this is not a FAQ, but I have trouble understanding the behaviour of
> the super() built-in function.

Maybe this thread on super will interest you:

http://groups.google.it/groups?hl=it&lr=&ie=UTF-8&threadm=95aa1afa.0402172242.17334743%40posting.google.com&rnum=1&prev=/groups%3Fhl%3Dit%26lr%3D%26ie%3DISO-8859-1%26q%3Dsimionato%2Bsuper%26btnG%3DCerca%26meta%3Dgroup%253Dcomp.lang.python.*


    Michele Simionato


From chris.cavalaria at free.fr  Tue Apr 27 05:42:39 2004
From: chris.cavalaria at free.fr (Christophe Cavalaria)
Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2004 11:42:39 +0200
Subject: urllib2 request blocks
In-Reply-To: <408ddbdd$0$16600$5a62ac22@freenews.iinet.net.au>
References: <408ddbdd$0$16600$5a62ac22@freenews.iinet.net.au>
Message-ID: <408e2b0a$0$15679$626a14ce@news.free.fr>

Derek Fountain wrote:
> I just tried this:
> 
> 
>>>>import urllib2
>>>>urllib2.urlopen( "https://passenger.ssc.com/~dmarti/contrib-faq/" )
> 
> 
> It sits forever. Loading that URL in a normal browser gets me a popup asking
> about server certificate authenticity, which presumably is what urllib2 is
> blocking at.
> 
> How can I prepare my code for this eventuality and ensure it doesn't block?

You can try to write the URL like that :

"https://username:password at passenger.ssc.com/~dmarti/contrib-faq/"


From ptmcg at austin.rr._bogus_.com  Tue Apr  6 02:11:32 2004
From: ptmcg at austin.rr._bogus_.com (Paul McGuire)
Date: Tue, 06 Apr 2004 06:11:32 GMT
Subject: slightly OT: BUT NEEDs to be said
References: <lvOdnRJzZ9244ezdRVn-uQ@powergate.ca>
	<8b42d1998c978c8c1cddf15c52a1c57b@dizum.com>
	<c4t9qn$2nb6vl$1@ID-169208.news.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <oSrcc.58247$o_.16089@fe1.texas.rr.com>

"Greg Ewing" <greg at cosc.canterbury.ac.nz> wrote in message
news:c4t9qn$2nb6vl$1 at ID-169208.news.uni-berlin.de...
> Nomen Nescio wrote:
> > much criticism. If someone came up with a language/interpreter based on
their
> > favourite TV show like I dunno 'Friends' or whatever it would be seen as
ridiculous.
>
> Aha! I've been trying to decide what to name the next language
> I invent, and now I know. It will be called:
>
>     Buffy
>
> Greg Ewing, Computer Science Dept,
> University of Canterbury,
> Christchurch, New Zealand
> http://www.cosc.canterbury.ac.nz/~greg
>
Too late.

http://www.smotricz.com/opensource/buffy/

(It's not a language, but it is in the same vein.)

-- Paul




From dmq at gain.com  Thu Apr 29 15:31:00 2004
From: dmq at gain.com (David MacQuigg)
Date: Thu, 29 Apr 2004 12:31:00 -0700
Subject: Is classless worth consideration
References: <g9k090lhocd1nbd7g230br6ooub113hjt6@4ax.com>
	<1090r77d97k0tb1@news.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <uil290hsdifplgn1f5ucc1rsp1j932ocvn@4ax.com>

On Wed, 28 Apr 2004 22:48:12 -0400, "John Roth"
<newsgroups at jhrothjr.com> wrote:
>"David MacQuigg" <dmq at gain.com> wrote in message
>news:g9k090lhocd1nbd7g230br6ooub113hjt6 at 4ax.com...
>> The problem we Python programmers are having is understanding the
>> fundamental advantage of eliminating classes and working only with
>> instances.  The theoretical discussions put me to sleep.  I can't see
>> the point of the examples above.  What we need is a simple use case.
>>
>> I've included the ability to clone one instance from another in my
>> "Python 3" proposal
>> http://ece.arizona.edu/~edatools/Python/PrototypeSyntax.htm
>> This will allow the user to completely ignore classes, and just make
>> one instance from another, then another, and so on, modifying each
>> instance along the way, whenever the urge is felt.
>>
>> Here is what I have so far in the Pros and Cons on this feature:
>>
>> Pro:  Allows "on-the-fly" programming style with no classes.
>> Con:  Can lead to more undisciplined programming.
>>
>> Perhaps you can help us here.
>
>So far, I have one use case: text adventure game programming.
>Most of the objects in such games are one-off, and having to
>create a class and an instance for each piece of scenery is more
>than a bit much. This is one of the reasons that standard programming
>languages have never gotten much traction in that domain.
>
>It's just occured to me that backing into that particular
>issue might work: use class methods and never bother
>with instantiating the classes at all. I'm not sure what
>we'd lose. (possibly descriptors?)

So let's see if I can state the problem clearly:  We want to be able
to create many "one-of-a-kind" instances, and the current syntax
requires an extra statement to instantiate each object from a class.
We would like to simply clone an existing instance when we need a new
one, adding whatever changes are needed "on-the-fly".

I've proposed a syntax to do this, and we are now considering the pros
and cons of implementing such a syntax.  Here is an example of using
the syntax:

>>> class S(object):  #  We need one class to get started.
        ... add all common attributes here ...

>>> s0 = S()  #  Empty scene instance.
>>> s1 = s0():
        ... change attributes for scene1 ...
>>> s2 = s0():
        ... change attributes for scene2 ...
>>> s1a = s1( "house", 27, 32 ):
        ... a derivative of scene1 ...
>>> s1a1 = s1a( "tree", 105, 12 ):
        ... a derivative of scent1a ...

Cloning an instance is just like instantiating a class, including the
ability to initialize with arguments.

Does this provide the basic functionality you need?

-- Dave



From mbrubeck at cs.hmc.edu  Thu Apr 29 17:10:58 2004
From: mbrubeck at cs.hmc.edu (Matt Brubeck)
Date: 29 Apr 2004 14:10:58 -0700
Subject: Don't understand wxPython ids
References: <408ed938$0$17263$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
Message-ID: <fef78025.0404291310.65efff30@posting.google.com>

Grant Edwards <grante at visi.com> wrote in message news:<408ed938$0$17263$a1866201 at newsreader.visi.com>...

> You're supposed to just make up unique id numbers for objects
> when a) they've already got unique id numbers [at least the id
> builtin thinks so] and b) they've got names that make things
> even more readable?

"Wax" is a wxPython wrapper under development at:

    http://zephyrfalcon.org/labs/
    http://zephyrfalcon.org/weblog/arch_Wax.html

Wax has a much more Pythonic API than wxPython, and gets rid of the
numeric IDs completely.  For example:

    b = Button(parent, "Save", onsave)

Alternately:

    b = Button(parent, "Save")

    # ...

    b.OnClick = onsave

Here's a longer snippet from the Wax primer:

    def CreateMenu(self):
        menubar = MenuBar()
        
        menu1 = Menu(self)
        menu1.Append("&New", self.New, "Create a new file")
        menu1.Append("&Open", self.Open, "Open a file")
        menu1.Append("&Save", self.Save, "Save a file")
        
        menubar.Append(menu1, "&File")
        
        self.SetMenuBar(menubar)


From jjl at pobox.com  Mon Apr 19 17:53:14 2004
From: jjl at pobox.com (John J. Lee)
Date: 19 Apr 2004 22:53:14 +0100
Subject: Generic constructors and duplication of internal Python logic
References: <87ekqq41ya.fsf@pobox.com> <c5lfi6$cit$00$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <87oepnzlbp.fsf@pobox.com>

Peter Otten <__peter__ at web.de> writes:

> John J. Lee wrote:
[...]
> You could use a noop method check_attrs() to define the argspec.
> check_attrs() is then called from the mixin's __init__() just to check that
> the parameters comply.
> 
> import inspect
> 
> def make_attrspec(f):
>     a = inspect.getargspec(f)
>     names = a[0]
>     if names[0] in ["self", "cls"]:
>         # XXX for now relies on naming convention
>         del names[0]
>     defaults = a[3]
>     for i in range(-1, -len(defaults)-1, -1):
>         names[i] = names[i], defaults[i]
>     return names
> 
> class ArgsMixin:
>     def __init__(self, *args, **kwds):
>         self.check_attrs(*args, **kwds)
> 
> class Blah(ArgsMixin):
>     def check_attrs(self, foo, bar, baz, optional1="first",
> optional2="second"):
>         pass
>     attr_spec = make_attrspec(check_attrs)

Clever.  But how to get __init__ to assign the arguments to the
instance?

b = Blah(foo=1, bar=2, optional1=4)
assert b.foo, b.bar, b.optional1 = 1, 2, 4


That half of the problem is missing in your solution.

[...]
> Todo: automagically "normalize" the argument list, e. g. convert
> Blah(1, 2, optional1="o1", baz=99) to Blah(1, 2, 99, optional1="o1").

As long as baz ends up getting assigned the value 99 and optional1
gets the value "o1", I don't care how that's achieved (except that I'd
like it done without having to write out all the logic as I have ATM
-- I want to reuse Python's own internal knowledge of argument lists
to get my attributes assigned).


> A workaround would be to make them all keyword arguments
> 
> kwds.update(dict(zip(Blah.attr_spec, args))) 
> 
> after the self.check_attrs() call.

Not acceptable in my case.


John


From hungjunglu at yahoo.com  Thu Apr 15 01:55:30 2004
From: hungjunglu at yahoo.com (Hung Jung Lu)
Date: 14 Apr 2004 22:55:30 -0700
Subject: Aspect Programming Module
References: <84fc4588.0404140106.3fa0c55@posting.google.com>
	<slrnc7q1ss.1aa.alf@largo.fayauffre.org>
	<cb035744.0404141130.170f51c4@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <8ef9bea6.0404142155.90b41ef@posting.google.com>

hwlgw at hotmail.com (Will Stuyvesant) wrote in message news:<cb035744.0404141130.170f51c4 at posting.google.com>...
> 
> AOP is *not needed* for Python programmers.  Plain and simple.
> 
> Don't understand?  Try this:
> 
> "AOP is a contrived way to get around the limitations of a statically
> typed language."

I beg to differ.

Python does not even have codeblocks. So how can you say AOP is not
needed for Python programmers?

It's another issue that current AOP "products" a la AspectJ are trash.
But the concepts from AOP are not only correct, but really necessary
in large-scale projects.

-----------------

Most people have a superficial understanding of AOP. I don't blame
them, since the papers by Kiczales et al. and probably all other
papers on AOP are a mess.

Anyway, I have talked about AOP long enough in the Python mailing
list. I won't repeat here.

I do have a few comments:

(a) AOP should have been called SOP (Subject Oriented Programming)
from a start.

(b) AOP is code factorization in the horizontal direction:
organization of code by action, not by data.

(c) AOP is in a way the Fourier Transform of OOP.

(d) AOP will not be popular until there is proper IDE/code-viewer or
some other novel techniques at runtime. It's coding in three
dimensions, and humans are only good with two. Asking an average
programmer to factorize code manually by objects (vertically) and by
subjects (horizontally), and use metaprogramming for weaving (a la
functional programming), is a bit too heavy. Until the day when all
this is done simply by mouse clicks (like editing the header and
footer information of a Microsoft Word document), AOP will be used
only by advanced programmers addressing large and complex projects.

regards,

Hung Jung


From __peter__ at web.de  Thu Apr 29 12:26:20 2004
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Thu, 29 Apr 2004 18:26:20 +0200
Subject: Subclasses in Python
References: <b4a8ffb6.0404221855.7239bb82@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.945.1082708460.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<b4a8ffb6.0404290639.635aeca5@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <c6rabc$ptf$04$1@news.t-online.com>

Thomas Philips wrote:

> I followed Shalabh's suggestion and rewrote Alien as a subclass of
> Player, and used self.__Class__.<whatever I need to access> to access
> the class attributes in the class and subclass. Works like a charm,
> but I'm having some difficulty printing class names. I want
> self.__class__ to return just the name of the class without some
> ancillary stuff thrown in. A snippet of code follows:
> 
> class Player(object):
>     #Class attributes for class Player
>     threshold = 50
>     initial_strength=100
>     n=0
> 
>     #Private methods for class Player
>     def __init__(self,name):
>         self.name = name
>         self.strength = self.__class__.initial_strength
>         self.__class__.n +=1
>         print self.__class__

make that
          print self.__class__.__name__
          
> class Alien(Player):
>     #Class attributes for subclass Alien
>     threshold = 30
>     initial_strength=150
>     n=0
> 
> When a new object is instantiated, the print statement in __init__
> gives me
> <class '__main__.Player'>
> or
> <class '__main__.Alien'>
> How can I just get it to return
> 
> Player
> or
> Alien
> 
> Interestingly, if I do a class comparison of the form
> 
> if self.__class__== Alien:

This compares two *classes* not classnames. Even classes with the same name 
defined, say, in a function would be recognized as not equal:

>>> def makeClass():
...     class A(object): pass
...     return A
...
>>> A1 = makeClass()
>>> A2 = makeClass()
>>> A1
<class '__main__.A'>
>>> A2
<class '__main__.A'>
>>> A1 == A2
False

Now compare the names:

>>> A1.__name__, A2.__name__
('A', 'A')
>>> A1.__name__ == A2.__name__
True
>>>

>     foo
> elif self.__class__== Player
>     bar
> 
> The comparison proceeds correctly. How can I get it to print the class
> name cleanly? Do I have to convert <class '__main__.Alien'> to a
> string and then use one or more string functions to clean it up?

No, "<class '__main__.Alien'>" is the string that is generated when the
class Alien is converted to string. If you want something else you have to
change to a custom metaclass - better stick to Alien.__name__.

Peter



From russblau at hotmail.com  Thu Apr 29 15:23:29 2004
From: russblau at hotmail.com (Russell Blau)
Date: Thu, 29 Apr 2004 15:23:29 -0400
Subject: Create object for item in list
References: <39885b3c.0404291110.7bd152ba@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <c6rkni$f2otu$1@ID-76829.news.uni-berlin.de>

"Helge" <helge at hefre.com> wrote in message
news:39885b3c.0404291110.7bd152ba at posting.google.com...
> I wonder how this can be accomplished:
>
> I've got a list, containing several strings. The strings look like
> this:
>
> [ "Name1/N1/N2/N3" , "Name2/N1/N2/N3" , "..." ]
>
> I would like to create one object for each item in the list, and the
> name of the object should be "str(item.split("/")[0])".
>
> I've tried this, but it won't work:
>
> for item in list:
>     str(item.split("/")[0]) = class(item)
>
> ...

A couple of small points before getting to the big issue:

1.  "class" is a keyword, and can't be used in the context you have it.  You
should define your class (which I'll call "C") earlier in your program.

2.  "list" is a type name, and shouldn't be used as a variable name, so I'll
change it to "mylist".

2.  The str() function is unnecessary, since item.split("/")[0] is already a
string by definition.

Now, I assume what you are trying to do is get Python to create an instance
of your class C, and assign it to the variable whose name is given by the
evaluation of item.split("/")[0].  In other words, you want Python to
execute a series of statements that look like this:

    Name1 = C("Name1/N1/N2/N3")

What you've done doesn't quite accomplish this; the left side of your
assignment expression evaluates to a string, so in effect you're telling
Python to execute:

    "Name1" = C("Name1/N1/N2/N3")

(At least that's how I interpret what you mean by "class(item)".)  This
doesn't make sense to the interpreter, any more than "Spam" = 7 would.  But
you can get Python to execute code provided to it inside a string, as
follows:

for item in mylist:
    exec "%s = C('%s')" % (item.split("/")[0], item)

Good luck...  Needless to say, you need to be careful about where the
contents of "mylist" come from, or you could end up overwriting other
variables that your program needs to function correctly.

-- 
I don't actually read my hotmail account, but you can replace hotmail with
excite if you really want to reach me.




From mlh at furu.idi.ntnu.no  Thu Apr 22 16:27:15 2004
From: mlh at furu.idi.ntnu.no (Magnus Lie Hetland)
Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2004 20:27:15 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Regexp optimization question
Message-ID: <slrnc8gal3.9da.mlh@furu.idi.ntnu.no>

I'm working on a project (Atox) where I need to match quite a few
regular expressions (several hundred) in reasonably large text files.
I've found that this can easily get rather slow. (There are many
things that slow Atox down -- it hasn't been designed for speed, and
any optimizations will entail quite a bit of refactoring.)

I've tried to speed this up by using the same trick as SPARK, putting
all the regexps into a single or-group in a new regexp. That helped a
*lot* -- but now I have to find out which one of them matched at a
certain location. I haven't yet looked at the performance of the code
for checking this, because I encountered a problem before that: Using
named groups will only work for 100 patterns -- not a terrible
problem, since I can create several 100-group patterns -- and using
named groups slows down the matching *a lot*. As far as I could tell,
using named groups actually was slower than simply matching the
patterns one by one.

So: What can I do? Is there any way of getting more speed here, except
implementing the matching code (i.e. the code right around the calls
to _re) in C or Pyrex? (I've tried using Psyco, but that didn't help;
I guess it might help if I implemented things differently...)

Any ideas?

-- 
Magnus Lie Hetland  "Oppression and harassment is a small price to pay
http://hetland.org   to live in the land of the free."  -- C. M. Burns


From michele.simionato at poste.it  Mon Apr  5 08:17:39 2004
From: michele.simionato at poste.it (Michele Simionato)
Date: 5 Apr 2004 05:17:39 -0700
Subject: Using function parameters to determine method kind
References: <4qrzym6e.fsf@telus.net>
Message-ID: <95aa1afa.0404050417.2d11b369@posting.google.com>

Lenard Lindstrom <len-1 at telus.net> wrote in message news:<4qrzym6e.fsf at telus.net>...
> I was wondering if anyone has suggested having Python determine
> a method's kind from its first parameter. 'self' is a de facto
> reserved word; 'cls' is a good indicator of a class method
> ( __new__ is a special case ).

I find relaying on tbe parameter name to specify the kind of method
to be rather fragile. It works most times but not always. What about
inner classes for instance? Also, there are situations where you want
a method to work both with instances and classes, so do you want to
use self or cls?
I support PEP 318 also because this will kill home grown hacks (including
my own) to provide this kind of functionality.
I am also waiting for a better "super" but it seems nobody is talking 
about it.

          Michele Simionato


From fumanchu at amor.org  Sat Apr 17 14:03:09 2004
From: fumanchu at amor.org (Robert Brewer)
Date: Sat, 17 Apr 2004 11:03:09 -0700
Subject: Static Modules...
Message-ID: <DE1CF2B4FEC4A342BF62B6B2B334601E562010@opus.amorhq.net>

Grzegorz Dostatni wrote:
> If we don't need to declare variables as having a certain 
> type, why do we need to import modules into the program?
> Isn't the "import sys" redundant if all I want is to call
> "sys.setrecursionlimit(5000)"?

I'm not denying your proposal, just adding to it:

The code you posted is a handy technique for sys and other "top-level"
builtins. We still need "import as" for packages, to shorten deep
references.

import custom.framework.app.tools.listtools as lt
bag1 = lt.Bag([1,2,3])
bag2 = lt.Bag([4,5,6])
bag3 = lt.Bag([7,8,9])

--- versus ---

bag1 = custom.framework.app.tools.listtools.Bag([1,2,3])
bag2 = custom.framework.app.tools.listtools.Bag([4,5,6])
bag3 = custom.framework.app.tools.listtools.Bag([7,8,9])

...likewise, "from package import module" needs to stick around (for
similar reasons).


FuManChu



From michael at foord.net  Mon Apr 19 03:15:21 2004
From: michael at foord.net (Fuzzyman)
Date: 19 Apr 2004 00:15:21 -0700
Subject: Wrapper round x86 Assembler
References: <8089854e.0404082353.7bf163a2@posting.google.com>
	<2ae25c6b.0404100840.10668dca@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <8089854e.0404182315.c8e478f@posting.google.com>

paddy3118 at netscape.net (Paddy McCarthy) wrote in message news:<2ae25c6b.0404100840.10668dca at posting.google.com>...
> michael at foord.net (Fuzzyman) wrote in message news:<8089854e.0404082353.7bf163a2 at posting.google.com>...
> > There might be a really good reason why this hasn't been done *or*
> > someone might have done it and I just can't find it..... *but*
> > 
> > what about a wrapper to an assembler (presumably for x86 assembly !)
> > !!
> > I just wrote some code doing binary operations which would have been
> > about a zillion times faster in a few lines of assembly code.
> > 
> > I also have fond memories of programming in BBC Basic which had an
> > inline assembler - so you could wrap your assembly program in Basic.
> > It meant some commercial games started with Basic !
> > 
> > Anyway - it would be easy to reserve some memory with a string like
> > object to pass to an 'assembly object' and allow some really nifty
> > (and fast) stuff ?? For simple algorithms it would be very neat.
> > Avoiding memory overflow etc would be up to the assembly code 'chunk'
> > of course.
> > 
> > Regards,
> > 
> > 
> > Fuzzy
> > 
> > http://www.voidspace.org.uk/atlantibots/pythonutils.html
> I.m sure that what I am about to suggest isn't as high tech as you
> were expecting ,
> but I thought that Python already has a way of accessing functions in
> a Unix
> shared library, or Windows DLL.
> If you cancompile Python on the platform than you no doubt have an
> assembler handy too.
> So, you could put your assemble language in a string; write the string
> to a file;
> assemble the file to create a shered library or DLL, then call the
> function from Python!
> 
> I don't think I'd do it that way though :-)
> 
> Cheers, Pad.


I've just discovered Weave - a package that is part of the SciPy
project and allows for (sort-of) inline C functions that can be
dynamically compiled at run-time.

So it effectively allows what you've suggested - but with C-functions
!!

As I'd like to learn Pyrex (and so need to learn C) - I think I'll
experiment with Weave.

Regards,


Fuzzy


http://www.voidspace.org.uk/atlantibots/pythonutils.html


From spam at wanadoo.fr  Sun Apr 11 09:05:05 2004
From: spam at wanadoo.fr (xavier)
Date: Sun, 11 Apr 2004 15:05:05 +0200
Subject: os.startfile() and xml file
Message-ID: <c5bg10$df6$1@news-reader2.wanadoo.fr>

Hi,

How to make os.startfile() working with xml files ? for example :

here is what open the picture (with Mozilla)
os.startfile("c:\\picture.jpg")

but the xml file can't be opened the same way :

os.startfile("c:\\file.xml")

the file is not found, but it is in c:\
Mozilla is the exe that open xml file, note that it works when i clic on it,
so the pb is not Mozilla...

 Thanks.
(sorry for my bad english)




From dyoo at hkn.eecs.berkeley.edu  Wed Apr 14 21:42:24 2004
From: dyoo at hkn.eecs.berkeley.edu (Daniel Yoo)
Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2004 01:42:24 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Does Python compete with Java?
References: <8b336527.0404051337.51bb4a1b@posting.google.com>
	<c4taac$2lg0bc$1@ID-169208.news.uni-berlin.de>
	<e838aa6e.0404071426.7192e8e4@posting.google.com>
	<slrnc79idf.hij.ramen@lackingtalent.com>
	<e838aa6e.0404130748.1d8e1ddf@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.585.1081876373.20120.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <c5kpa0$1vh9$1@agate.berkeley.edu>

Jakub Fast <kfast at poczta.onet.pl> wrote:

: On quite another note, is it possible to define your own operators in 

: learning them actually might turn out useful for whatever they want to 
: do in the future -- more useful than, say, prolog) and nothing can beat 
: the intuitive appeal of

: S ==> (NP and VP) or VP

: over CFGProduction(S, NP, VP), CFGProduction(S, VP) for specifying your 
: simple cfg, dcg or ebnf rules if you're completely new to programming 
: and have just been given a programming assignment :)

Hi Jakub,

You may then want to give your students a prewritten parser that takes
a string like "(NP and VP) or VP" and reproduces the kind of data
structure that you want.  John Aycock's SPARK toolkit is a really nice
tool for building such a tool:

    http://pages.cpsc.ucalgary.ca/~aycock/spark/


As an example, you may find:

    http://hkn.eecs.berkeley.edu/~dyoo/python/propositions/

interesting --- I wrote it a LONG LONG time ago, but it may be useful
for you.  It is not production code by a long shot, but may still
serve as a beginning.


Good luck!


From junkmail at solumslekt.org  Fri Apr  2 02:47:47 2004
From: junkmail at solumslekt.org (Leif B. Kristensen)
Date: Fri, 02 Apr 2004 09:47:47 +0200
Subject: String concatenation
Message-ID: <wS8bc.4382$px6.64058@news2.e.nsc.no>

Having recently started with Python, I've written this little function
to retrieve place parts from a database and concatenate them to a
string. While it certainly works, and is also considerably shorter than
the PHP code that I originally wrote, I'm pretty convinced that there
should be an even better way to do it. Can anybody show me how to write
the string concatenation part in a more Pythonesque syntax?

def get_place(x):
    c=db.cursor()
    c.execute("select place_lvl1, place_lvl2, \
                place_lvl3, place_lvl4, place_lvl5 \
                from place where place_id = %d" % (x))
    res=c.fetchone()
    place = ''
    for i in range(5):
        tmp = res[i]        
        if tmp[:1] != '-' and len(tmp) != 0:
            place = place + ', ' + (res[i])
    return place[2:]

regards,
-- 
Leif Biberg Kristensen
http://solumslekt.org/
Validare necesse est


From roman.yakovenko at actimize.com  Wed Apr 14 08:34:22 2004
From: roman.yakovenko at actimize.com (Roman Yakovenko)
Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2004 15:34:22 +0300
Subject: Unable to create com object - need help
Message-ID: <2D89F6C4A80FA547BF5D5B8FDDD04523060C62@exchange.adrembi.com>

Thank you very much. I definitly will try your module.
Also I still have to questions:
1. How does VB success to work with this dll?
2. Why after using makepy utility I don't get interface registered in DiaSource class

I understand that the first question is generic one, and has nothing to do with python.
But any reference to this specifiec topic will be appreciated. Also I'd like to know the answer
to the second question. It will help me a lot in my future work

Roman.


> -----Original Message-----
> From: Thomas Heller [mailto:theller at python.net]
> Sent: Wednesday, April 14, 2004 2:57 PM
> To: python-list at python.org
> Subject: Re: Unable to create com object - need help
> 
> 
> "Roman Yakovenko" <roman.yakovenko at actimize.com> writes:
> 
> > 	Hi. I need some help. 
> > Here is my situation. It is a little bit difficult to 
> explain and/or understand.
> > I'd like to use msdia71.dll. This dll gives you access to 
> program database files
> > created during a build. I register this dll. This is pure com dll. 
> > This dll contains 3 top classes. I'd like to create one of 
> them - DiaSource. 
> > This class implements IDiaDataSource interface. This fact I 
> can see in dia2.idl. 
> >
> >  importlib("stdole2.tlb");
> >     [
> >         uuid(e60afbee-502d-46ae-858f-8272a09bd707),
> >         helpstring("DiaSource Class")
> >     ]
> >     coclass DiaSource
> >     {
> >         [default] interface IDiaDataSource;
> >     };
> >
> > after using makepy I get 
> >
> > class DiaSource(CoClassBaseClass): # A CoClass
> > 	# DiaSource Class
> > 	CLSID = IID('{E60AFBEE-502D-46AE-858F-8272A09BD707}')
> > 	coclass_sources = [
> > 	]
> > 	coclass_interfaces = [
> > 	]
> > If I understand right DiaSource doesn't implements 
> IDiaDataSource interface at all. 
> > May be this is a bug, may be I don't understand something. 
> Clarifying this point will be great.
> 
> I think this has to do with the fact that with pywin32 you 
> cannot access
> arbitrary com interfaces - only interfaces that either have 
> been wrapped
> in pythoncom.dll or that derive from IDispatch.  The DIA 
> interfaces all
> derive from IUnknown, so it seems you cannot call them.
> 
> There is ongoing work in pywin32 named 'universal' or something like
> that, but I don't know how far it is.
> 
> Another possibility is to use ctypes com layer, it has a tool somewhat
> similar to makepy - it's called readtlb.py, and creates 
> python wrappers
> for com interfaces.  ctypes.com has some samples 
> demonstrating all this.
> 
> HTH,
> 
> Thomas
> 
> 
> -- 
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
> 



From fredrik at pythonware.com  Wed Apr 21 11:53:24 2004
From: fredrik at pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2004 17:53:24 +0200
Subject: Regex'ing null bytes
References: <c64nve$kut$1@sea.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <c665ct$vkl$2@sea.gmane.org>

Jonas Galvez wrote:

> I'm trying to parse some binary data with regexes. It works well in
> the latest Python build, but I need to run this on Python 1.5.2. The
> binary data has a pattern like this:
>
>     keyName1\002..(.*)\000.*keyName2\002..(.*)\000
>     (I'm using regex syntax to illustrate)
>
> So I wrote the following script:
>
>     def amfKey(str):
>         return "%s\002..([^\000]*)" % str
>
>     keys = re.compile(amfKey("key"), re.DOTALL).findall(amfStr)
>
> Works on 2.3.3, but produces the following error on 1.5.2:
>
>     Traceback (innermost last):
>        File "test.py", line 26, in ?
>          keys = re.compile(amfKey("key"), re.DOTALL).findall(amfStr)
>        File "C:\Python152\Lib\re.py", line 79, in compile
>          code=pcre_compile(pattern, flags, groupindex)
>      TypeError: argument 1: expected string without null bytes, string found
>
> Does anyone know a workaround?

the "pre" (pcre) engine doesn't support null bytes in pattern strings, but
it does understand octal escapes.

in other words, use double backslashes, or an "r" string:

    "\\000"
    r"\0"

</F>






From xuejm at sina.com  Wed Apr 21 01:25:27 2004
From: xuejm at sina.com (Phipps Xue)
Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2004 13:25:27 +0800
Subject: report generators
References: <425cc8d1.0404200505.4bce8dc2@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <c650k9$p8p$1@news1.wdf.sap-ag.de>

A very great open source library for generating PDF report using in python.
www.reportlab.org

Phipps
"mir nazim" <mir4uu at yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:425cc8d1.0404200505.4bce8dc2 at posting.google.com...
> hi,
> i wanted 2 know if there is any report generator for python/linux that
> produces reports in variety of formats e.g html/images/jpeg/png etc.
> i  know about report lab but output is pdf. pdf is ok for printing but
> u need a pdf viewer for viewing it. there should be some thing that
> cen viewed from directly from application e.g gtkhtml for gtk, khtml
> for kde etc.




From jacek.generowicz at cern.ch  Thu Apr  1 04:03:15 2004
From: jacek.generowicz at cern.ch (Jacek Generowicz)
Date: 01 Apr 2004 11:03:15 +0200
Subject: [OT] Top posting is a PITA
References: <569c605ld1cj8fc1emolk08ete0s1prls1@4ax.com>
	<v0r9c.38988$cx5.22021@fed1read04>
	<106di86neu1qh4d@news.supernews.com>
	<AHF9c.49048$cx5.33872@fed1read04> <c4akqh$gml$1@panix2.panix.com>
	<Sz8ac.68272$cx5.62681@fed1read04>
	<mailman.115.1080652873.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<4069a001$0$4237$afc38c87@news.easynet.co.uk>
	<4069e9d9$0$8915$636a15ce@news.free.fr>
	<406a98ee$0$290$edfadb0f@dread12.news.tele.dk>
	<c4e6jv$10te$1@biggoron.nerim.net>
	<106lh64rda8t9d4@news.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <tyfn05w1358.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>

"John Roth" <newsgroups at jhrothjr.com> writes:

> AFAIC, it doesn't matter whether you put your response at the
> top or bottom; what matters to me is whether I can find what
> you're talking about quickly. That means ruthless pruning of the
> post so that old stuff gets deleted.

Look, y'all, email and usenet aren't all that dissimilar, in this
respect, from face-to-face conversation which has been
interrupted. Imagine you pick up a conversation whith someone, which
was interrupted a few minutes, hours, or days before.

Do you go up to your interlocutor, say whatever you wanted to say
next, and then recite (both sides of) the whole conversation you had
before? No.

Do you _first_ repeat (both sides of) the whole conversation you had
before, and at the very end (ten minutes later, or so) say whatever it
is that you wanted to say? No.  Does your interlocutor then repeat
everything both of you have said so far once again, before adding his
new contribution? No.

Or, do you, re-establish context by saying something like "Concerning
your point about fubaring the frobnicators", and then make your point
("I would never fubar a frobnicator, without barzotting it first") ?

Then, maybe you wish to make a second point ... in which case you
would establish the relevant context again ("As for what you said
about pinging a pong"), and make your next point, relevant to the
context you just established ("When pinging a pong, you must take care
to pang it first").


I find that people who do not make the effort to quote the relevant
part(s) of messages to which they are replying, and do not make the
effort to put their replies close to (ie just after) the relevant
citations they have left in, more often than not, also fail to make
the effort to organize their own thoughts in their entire
consideration of the discussion.

Exchanges with top-posters are usually of a low quality: top-posting
makes it difficult to follow the thread ... but top-posters tend to
write codswallop more often that those who trim and organize their
replies carefully.

This is partly because the process of trimming the original post,
forces you to identfy the relevant points being made, which helps you
notice more clearly what is actually being said. Partly, it is because
if you post on usenet for more than a day and fail to notice that
top-posting sucks, then ... well, that says something about your
perspicacity.


From jonas at jonasgalvez.com  Wed Apr 21 14:02:43 2004
From: jonas at jonasgalvez.com (Jonas Galvez)
Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2004 15:02:43 -0300
Subject: Stupid Regex Question
References: <DE1CF2B4FEC4A342BF62B6B2B334601E562035@opus.amorhq.net>
Message-ID: <c66d3k$m80$1@sea.gmane.org>

> [Robert Brewer]
> First, it's not a personal issue for me. However, some people get
> quite upset over it. You can read about it at:
> http://www.dickalba.demon.co.uk/usenet/guide/faq_topp.html

Ohh... that! But now I'm a bit confused, since I myself have always
been somewhat anal on this issue. I mean, I format my e-mails in
that way, I just use a slightly different header:

Instead of:

    Someone wrote:
    > Text
    > Text
    > Text

    My Text

I use:

    > [Somone]
    > Text
    > Text
    > Text

    My Text

And I do it by 'hand' hehe :-) I didn't do any 'top-posting' at all,
I guess you were just confused by my different formatting. But I
shall start using the standard from now on... :-)



Cheers,
And thanks again.


=-
Jonas Galvez
jonasgalvez.com/blog
macromedia.com/go/team







From raphael.badin at sopinspace.com  Wed Apr 14 06:04:06 2004
From: raphael.badin at sopinspace.com (Raphael Badin)
Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2004 12:04:06 +0200
Subject: wxPython wxWidgets font - boaConstructor
Message-ID: <c5j2am$5c5$1@sea.gmane.org>

Hi,

        I'am having trouble with boa-contructor (and all other python IDE using
wxWidgets) and the central editor window (the main one, where the python
code is) - menu are ok. The font is ugly (alising & co) and almost
unreadable ... I'm on linux within the KDE environnement ...
        Has anyone solved such an issue ?

Thanks,

Raphael




From jcarlson at uci.edu  Sun Apr 11 13:56:41 2004
From: jcarlson at uci.edu (Josiah Carlson)
Date: Sun, 11 Apr 2004 10:56:41 -0700
Subject: Best IDE?
In-Reply-To: <c5bg1k$25vq$1@news.wplus.net>
References: <c5bg1k$25vq$1@news.wplus.net>
Message-ID: <c5c138$i91$1@news.service.uci.edu>

> This has prolly been asked 100 times - so please refrain from flaming if you can...
> 
> What's the best MSwindows editor for python?  I'm currently using PythonWin (ActiveState) at the moment, its a bit
> buggy - but not too bad. I mean, its got autocomplete & tips & help & autoindentaion (not always good tho).
> 
> Thing is, I'm sure there is something better. Is there?

Many people stick with the standard Python-included Idle.

Others use their favored *nix editor on Windows (usually Emacs or VI(M))

Some have found they love SciTE.

If you could get Eric3 running on Windows, it'd probably be /very/ nice.

The editor component of Boa Constructor is pretty good (haven't used it 
in a while), but is a bit sluggish.

SPE (Stani's Python Editor) is also pretty good, though can be slow at 
times, and uses MDI, which people usually love or hate.

I use PyPE, find it to be a satisfactory replacement for Idle, and is 
quite fast.  I wrote it, which is why I place it at the bottom.


There are many other general text editors with some sort of Python 
support, but I don't use any of them, so I'll not talk about them.

  - Josiah


From robin at SPAMREMOVEjessikat.fsnet.co.uk  Tue Apr 20 17:41:51 2004
From: robin at SPAMREMOVEjessikat.fsnet.co.uk (Robin Becker)
Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 22:41:51 +0100
Subject: here document as script and read from stdin
In-Reply-To: <408596DE.10004@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk>
References: <408596DE.10004@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk>
Message-ID: <4085991F.8080306@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk>

Robin Becker wrote:

> Is it possible to use python with a shell HERE document as the script 
> and read the standard input? In other words make python usable as a 
> filter with a side input?
> 
> It doesn't seem to be obvous unless I can somehow use the -c option.
Well I find I can put the script in as the -c option and then stdin is 
still available. That requires me to be pretty careful with quotes 
though. I wonder if there's an easy way to get a here document to act as 
a parameter?
-- 
Robin Becker


From jbenson at sextans.lowell.edu  Fri Apr  2 21:07:56 2004
From: jbenson at sextans.lowell.edu (Jim Benson)
Date: Fri, 2 Apr 2004 19:07:56 -0700 (MST)
Subject: simple popen question
In-Reply-To: <E1B9aKH-0004pg-00@ns.purdue.org>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0404021857360.31184-100000@sextans.mesa.lowellnet>

On Fri, 2 Apr 2004, Cameron Laird wrote:

> In article <mailman.292.1080946675.20120.python-list at python.org>,
> Jim Benson  <jbenson at sextans.lowell.edu> wrote:
> >
> >Is there an easy way to turn off the buffering?
> >I tried adding the extra 'r' and a small bufsize
> >to the popen...no difference.
> 			.
> 			.
> In general, no; the reader doesn't control the buffering, the writer does.
> 

The reason i suspect popen is that when i run
the executable from the unix shell...i see every
output line ~ when expected. 

> But there are several tangential issues raised here.  Most crucially:  do
> you control the (source of the) "binary executable"?  If you do, what I
> think you'll find most satisfying is to recompile it with buffering disabled,
> at least on newlines.
> 

I do control the executable...i wrote that as well. 
The lack of obvious buffering as viewed from the unix shell
vs. python popen/readline is what is confusing to me.

Thanks, 

Jim
 





From rogerb at rogerbinns.com  Mon Apr  5 16:38:37 2004
From: rogerb at rogerbinns.com (Roger Binns)
Date: Mon, 5 Apr 2004 13:38:37 -0700
Subject: Python and USB
References: <407162b0$1@news.vo.lu>
Message-ID: <5ns8k1-3q4.ln1@home.rogerbinns.com>

> I just
> was thinking about to do the wrapper myself using SWIG, but i also still
> hope, that there is someone outside, who played allready with usb and
> python arround.

Here is one I made earlier:

http://cvs.sf.net/viewcvs.py/bitpim/bitpim/native/usb/

It is shipping as part of BitPim and works with libusb on Linux and Mac
and libusb-win32 on Windows.

If someone wants to make this into a proper distutils style package
etc, I'd be more than happy to contribute the code etc.

Roger




From peter at engcorp.com  Tue Apr 27 14:36:34 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2004 14:36:34 -0400
Subject: Is Perl *that* good?
In-Reply-To: <mailman.51.1083087272.25742.python-list@python.org>
References: <c6ich0$c5mee$1@ID-205437.news.uni-berlin.de>	<iL3jc.232$Yc.2330@news4.e.nsc.no>	<108q51j4dscn7dc@corp.supernews.com>	<knbjc.267$id.3998@news2.e.nsc.no>	<pan.2004.04.26.20.50.19.843510@hotmail.com>	<87fzaqmm8t.fsf@strauser.com>	<38ec68a6.0404262308.50029919@posting.google.com>	<du765bles9i.fsf@lehtori.cc.tut.fi>	<roy-830B7D.08351627042004@reader2.panix.com>
	<mailman.51.1083087272.25742.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <FoCdnQcuQaavNRPdRVn-vA@powergate.ca>

Skip Montanaro wrote:

>     Roy> I don't see anything in the reference manual which says re.match() 
>     Roy> caches compilations, but I suspect it does.
> 
> Yup, every call does.  I believe the only time you really need to compile
> them is if you have more than 100 different regular expressions.  In this
> case the caching code clears the cache when the threshold is reached instead
> of just picking a random few elements to toss (which seems like a mistake to
> me but one that should rarely be encountered).  

I would think the mistake would be in writing code that actually
depended on more than 100 different regular expressions, without
explicitly compiling the expressions itself.  The 100-expression
cache seems like a cheap, transparent optimization that shouldn't
cause anyone trouble in well-written code.

-Peter


From claird at lairds.com  Sat Apr  3 06:18:10 2004
From: claird at lairds.com (Cameron Laird)
Date: Sat, 03 Apr 2004 11:18:10 -0000
Subject: Simulate socket with files or stdin/stdout
References: <c4fenn$o9h$1@newshispeed.ch>
	<donn-94CD08.17112131032004@nntp4.u.washington.edu>
Message-ID: <106t7bin3d7vf93@corp.supernews.com>

In article <donn-94CD08.17112131032004 at nntp4.u.washington.edu>,
Donn Cave  <donn at u.washington.edu> wrote:
>In article <c4fenn$o9h$1 at newshispeed.ch>,
> "Jean-Pierre Bergamin" <james at ractive.ch> wrote:
>
>> We are forced to use a quite old simulation software that's based on
>> Modula-2. The idea is now to let this software "talk" to the outside world
>> over a TCP/IP network.
>> 
>> Since the program has no possibility to use sockets or other mechanisms to
>> send data over the network we have the idea to let python do the network
>> part and let the simu software communicate with the python script in some
>> other way:
>> 
>> One idea is to use stdout and stdin (but I'm not even sure if stdout/in are
>> available in the simulation software).
			.
		[Donn shows how easy
		POSIX networking is]
			.
			.
I wonder how close the effect will be to recreation of inetd
<URL: http://wombat.doc.ic.ac.uk/foldoc/foldoc.cgi?inetd >.
-- 

Cameron Laird <claird at phaseit.net>
Business:  http://www.Phaseit.net


From fma at doe.carleton.ca  Thu Apr 15 03:59:14 2004
From: fma at doe.carleton.ca (Fred Ma)
Date: 15 Apr 2004 07:59:14 GMT
Subject: Kuhlman's tutorials pretty good
References: <407E1E20.D0216E92@doe.carleton.ca>
	<200404150710.i3F7A0Hw010978@locutus.doe.carleton.ca>
Message-ID: <407E40CC.C06FA9E3@doe.carleton.ca>

My browser crashed, so I'm typing this again.  That Deja Vu feeling.

"urnerk at qwest.net" wrote:
> 
> I like Dave Kuhlman's tutorials as well.  They seem to be in the right place
> at the website now:
> 
> http://www.python.org/topics/learn/prog.html

Yes, but how do you get to it?  I went to www.python.org, clicked on
Documentation at the top.  Nada.  I went back to www.python.org,
clicked on Introductions to Python, then looked at the links for
programmers.  Nada.  I'm not even sure that I found my way to his
tutorials via the python site yesterday..  Today, I ended up finding
them with Google.

> However, in looking over 201, I see some scrambling of source code examples,
> vs. surrounding text, e.g. when he's getting into regular expressions, some
> of the examples have nothing to do with the explanations that follow.
> Notably sections 2.2, 2.3, 2.4, 2.5.  2.6 is mostly OK except:
> 
> """
> Put together a new string with string concatenation from pieces of the
> original string and replacement values. You can use string slices to get
> the sub-strings of the original string. In our case, the following gets the
> start of the string, adds the first replacement, adds the middle of the
> original string, adds the second replacement, and finally, adds the last
> part of the original string:
> 
> lineDef = delimitedList(fieldDef)
> """

Yes, they seem rearranged.  I'm not sure what Dr. Kuhlman's time is
like, but his tutorials are very good, and thus of great value to
Python newbies everywhere.  ;)

Fred

P.S.  Posted and mailed to the same recipients.
Bcc is the only way I can hide the email of Dr. Kuhlman.
His email is on his tutorial, but perhaps its absence here will
save him from a tiny bit of spam.
-- 
Fred Ma
Dept. of Electronics, Carleton University
1125 Colonel By Drive, Ottawa, Ontario
Canada, K1S 5B6


From peter at engcorp.com  Fri Apr  2 06:53:23 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Fri, 02 Apr 2004 06:53:23 -0500
Subject: threading priority
In-Reply-To: <mailman.258.1080887511.20120.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.258.1080887511.20120.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <W8GdnX6dQs2uyfDd4p2dnA@powergate.ca>

Joe Wong wrote:

> Hi, Is there any way to increase/decrease a thread priority in Python?

Not really, and as Python does not use a "free-threading" model,
it wouldn't work as you'd like anyway.

Search Google for "Python GIL" or "Global Interpreter Lock" and you
should learn enough to see why this is so.

-Peter


From gianluca.trombetta at tin.it  Tue Apr 13 07:28:07 2004
From: gianluca.trombetta at tin.it (Gianluca Trombetta)
Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2004 13:28:07 +0200
Subject: mcmillan installer
Message-ID: <c5gis8$ii2$1@sea.gmane.org>

Hi all,

I'm searching a tool that compile python script to an executable binary.
I found the mcmillan installer but i can't find a valid url to download it.

Do someone know a valid url to download it or know another similar tool?

Thanks.
Gianluca






From fgeiger at datec.at  Fri Apr 23 03:51:02 2004
From: fgeiger at datec.at (F. GEIGER)
Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2004 09:51:02 +0200
Subject: CAD graphics with Python: Which lib, pack, tool?
Message-ID: <c6ahtq$7ig$1@newshispeed.ch>

Hi all,

I'm dev'ing a control app, that has as a part of it a window showing
CAD-drawings.

So I'd like to display drawings coming from DXF files. In the first place
I'd start displaying rectangles and circles, i.e. simple shapes.
Nevertheless, the goal is to scan DXF files for the shapes to be displayed.

PythonCAD comes to my mind. But, alas, yet I did not succeed in installing
it on my Win2k box - the underlying graphics toolkit is missing DLLs.

But anyway, as I do not want to develop a full blown CAD program (I "simply"
want to display, zoom an rotate them), there's probably somthing simpler out
there for my purposes.

My app uses Python 2.3.x and wxPython (2nd latest release, upgrade any time
soon). I dev it on Win2k which will be the first target platform. But I see
Linux as a target already on the horizon.

So the lib should run on Win2k, but not prevent me from running on Linux.
The lib should integrate somehow with wxPython.

OTH, there are graphic libs 'n' packs out there similar to wxPython (was it
FOX?). So, if there are many more pros than cons, I'd consider changing from
wxPython.

Any hint is welcome.

Best regards
Franz GEIGER






From ae  Mon Apr 12 17:56:14 2004
From: ae (A Evans)
Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2004 14:56:14 -0700
Subject: I am puzled about numbers
References: <107lvs6mree8pee@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <107m446tlvs9u01@corp.supernews.com>

Here I cam across another interesting pattern or am I thinking to close to
binary

P.S thanks for the replies

which brings me to another question seeing these patterns I am making with
numbers how random is the random function in python I mean is it really
possible for a computer to think randomly or is it a pattern like this

var = 999999 % 333
print var

var = 888888 % 222
print var

var = 777777 % 111
print var

var = 666666 % 333
print var

var = 555555 % 222
print var

var = 444444 % 111
print var

var = 333333 % 333
print var

var = 222222 % 222
print var

var = 111111 % 111
print var

var = 99999 % 333
print var

var = 88888 % 222
print var

var = 77777 % 111
print var

var = 66666 % 333
print var

var = 55555 % 222
print var

var = 44444 % 111
print var

var = 33333 % 333
print var

var = 22222 % 222
print var

var = 11111 % 111
print var


var = 9999 % 333
print var

var = 8888 % 222
print var

var = 7777 % 111
print var

var = 6666 % 333
print var

var = 5555 % 222
print var

var = 4444 % 111
print var

var = 3333 % 333
print var

var = 2222 % 222
print var

var = 1111 % 111
print var




var = 999 % 333
print var

var = 888 % 222
print var

var = 777 % 111
print var

var = 666 % 333
print var

var = 555 % 222
print var

var = 444 % 111
print var

var = 333 % 333
print var

var = 222 % 222
print var

var = 111 % 111
print var

var = 99 % 333
print var

var = 88 % 222
print var

var = 77 % 111
print var

var = 66 % 333
print var

var = 55 % 222
print var

var = 44 % 111
print var

var = 33 % 333
print var

var = 22 % 222
print var

var = 11 % 111
print var






var = 9 % 333
print var

var = 8 % 222
print var

var = 7 % 111
print var

var = 6 % 333
print var

var = 5 % 222
print var

var = 4 % 111
print var

var = 3 % 333
print var

var = 2 % 222
print var

var = 1 % 111
print var




From andymac at bullseye.apana.org.au  Sat Apr  3 19:36:19 2004
From: andymac at bullseye.apana.org.au (Andrew MacIntyre)
Date: Sun, 4 Apr 2004 10:36:19 +1000 (EST)
Subject: Python is faster than C
In-Reply-To: <406F0907.96F37EA1@tunes.org>
References: <406F0907.96F37EA1@tunes.org>
Message-ID: <20040404101631.K83749@bullseye.apana.org.au>

On Sat, 3 Apr 2004, Armin Rigo wrote:

> This is a rant against the optimization trend of the Python interpreter.
>
> Sorting a list of 100000 integers in random order takes:
>
> * 0.75 seconds in Python 2.1
> * 0.51 seconds in Python 2.2
> * 0.46 seconds in Python 2.3
>
> Tim Peters did a great job optimizing list.sort().  If I try with a
> simple, non-stable pure Python quicksort implementation, in Python 2.3:
>
> * 4.83 seconds
> * 0.21 seconds with Psyco
>
> First step towards world domination of high-level languages :-)

{...}

> So this is not so much a plug for Psyco as a rant against the current
> trend of rewriting standard modules in C.  Premature optimization and
> all that.

{...}

> Protesting-ly yours,

While I certainly appreciate pysco and what it can do, I believe your
protest to be unreasonable as it denies better performance on platforms
that psyco doesn't yet (& probably never will) support.

Moreover, your protest about iterators is also unreasonable as people are
benefitting from the reduced memory consumption iterators and their ilk
bring (quite often accompanied by performance gains from not having to
thrash large amounts of RAM through pitiful caches).  As such, iterators
are a _different_ optimisation, and I hope that you can come to terms with
this and psycoise them too!

--
Andrew I MacIntyre                     "These thoughts are mine alone..."
E-mail: andymac at bullseye.apana.org.au  (pref) | Snail: PO Box 370
        andymac at pcug.org.au             (alt) |        Belconnen  ACT  2616
Web:    http://www.andymac.org/               |        Australia



From gmccaughan at synaptics-uk.com  Mon Apr 19 09:56:14 2004
From: gmccaughan at synaptics-uk.com (Gareth McCaughan)
Date: Mon, 19 Apr 2004 13:56:14 +0000
Subject: [Python-Dev] PEP 329: Treating Builtins as Constants in the
	Standard Library
In-Reply-To: <5.2.1.1.0.20040419154633.02d12be8@pop.bluewin.ch>
References: <5.2.1.1.0.20040419154633.02d12be8@pop.bluewin.ch>
Message-ID: <200404191456.14865.gmccaughan@synaptics-uk.com>

On Monday 2004-04-19 14:49, Samuele Pedroni wrote:

> Raymond, could you  please try to tame your speed obsession without 
> devising even more hacks and pissing in other people's pool.

What a gratuitously obnoxious and pointless reply. If you have
reason to think Raymond's proposal, if implemented, will cause
trouble, then show it. If not, then why shouldn't he work on
making Python faster if he wants to?

The only drawback I can see to Raymond's proposal is that if
you change the values of builtins and expect that to influence
the behaviour of the standard library, then that may not work
any more. I'd be more inclined to call *that* "pissing in other
people's pools" than Raymond's proposal.

-- 
g





From robin at alldunn.NOSPAM.com  Thu Apr  1 17:30:16 2004
From: robin at alldunn.NOSPAM.com (Robin Dunn)
Date: Thu, 01 Apr 2004 14:30:16 -0800
Subject: wxPython book (was Re: Python Documentation Blows!)
In-Reply-To: <c4f9q0$lkp$1@panix3.panix.com>
References: <40699A31.8000708@yahoo.com>
	<406a753b$0$12020$79c14f64@nan-newsreader-02.noos.net>
	<c4enhh$4ne$1@panix3.panix.com>
	<9TCac.683$JX6.99@fe07.usenetserver.com>
	<c4f9q0$lkp$1@panix3.panix.com>
Message-ID: <YJ0bc.482$P45.311@fe07.usenetserver.com>

Aahz wrote:
> In article <9TCac.683$JX6.99 at fe07.usenetserver.com>,
> Robin Dunn  <robin at alldunn.NOSPAM.com> wrote:

>>
>>We've just had our 1/3 review, with lots of positive and constructive 
>>feedback from the reviewers.  There's still lots to do but it is moving 
>>ahead at a steady pace.
> 
> 
> Cool!  Still using reST to write it?

Yep.

-- 
Robin Dunn
Software Craftsman
http://wxPython.org  Java give you jitters?  Relax with wxPython!



From vineet at eswap.com  Tue Apr  6 00:15:58 2004
From: vineet at eswap.com (Vineet Jain)
Date: Tue, 6 Apr 2004 00:15:58 -0400
Subject: int('2.1') does not work while int(float('2.1')) does
In-Reply-To: <40722555.66C70D40@alcyone.com>
Message-ID: <KPENJIMKHJPNKOLFIHBNMECKCGAA.vineet@eswap.com>

I understand the reason that it is done. I don't agree with though. Given
the following use case: (which is how I discovered the problem).

read a csv file which has

int1, int2, int3, etc...

In one of the files that was passed to me the ints were replaced with int.00
and the program failed. So now I have to do int(float(csvfield)) which does
not make sense to me.

the answers to your question:

>>Should it truncate, round to negative infinity round to positive infinity,
round
>>to zero, what?

is that it should behave exatly as when it encounters a float number. From
my mind there is no difference between

int('2.1')
int(float('2.1'))

If the second is allowed (which has to be), then the first should also be
allowed.

VJ

-----Original Message-----
From: python-list-bounces+vineet=eswap.com at python.org
[mailto:python-list-bounces+vineet=eswap.com at python.org]On Behalf Of
Erik Max Francis
Sent: Monday, April 05, 2004 10:35 PM
To: python-list at python.org
Subject: Re: int('2.1') does not work while int(float('2.1')) does


Vineet Jain wrote:

> int('2.1') does not work while int(float('2.1')) does. If int can
> covert a
> float object then there is no reason why a float string should not be
> converted too.
>
> When I do int('2.1') I get the following error:
>
> >>> a = int('2.0')
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
> ValueError: invalid literal for int(): 2.0
>
> This does not seem very pythonic

There's a fundamental difference between an int and a float.  If the
string you're trying to convert looks like a float, that means it
doesn't look like an int.

With your first example of '2.1', what should it mean?  Should it
truncate, round to negative infinity round to positive infinity, round
to zero, what?  Python can't guess for you, so it shouldn't try.  Thus
it's an error.

--
 __ Erik Max Francis && max at alcyone.com && http://www.alcyone.com/max/
/  \ San Jose, CA, USA && 37 20 N 121 53 W && AIM erikmaxfrancis
\__/ If I had another face, do you think I'd wear this one?
    -- Abraham Lincoln
--
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list




From eppstein at ics.uci.edu  Wed Apr 14 01:26:52 2004
From: eppstein at ics.uci.edu (David Eppstein)
Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2004 22:26:52 -0700
Subject: print u"\u0432": why is this so hard? UnciodeEncodeError
References: <cpa4qrvb529.fsf@cabernet.nelson.monkey.org>
	<c52lu9$j8c$03$1@news.t-online.com>
	<8gbrlvz1k1.fsf@galapagos.bx.psu.edu>
Message-ID: <eppstein-0B9037.22265213042004@news.service.uci.edu>

In article <8gbrlvz1k1.fsf at galapagos.bx.psu.edu>,
 Scott Schwartz <"schwartz+ at usenet "@bio.cse.psu.edu> wrote:

> > It is: however, your locale only tells Python the encoding of your
> > terminal, not the encoding of an arbitrary file you may write to.
> 
> That's not the usual interpretation of locale.  It's not about
> terminals, it's about everything, especially files.

Files should be in a format that specifies the encoding explicitly, 
either within the file or as part of an external file format 
specification.  One should not have to hope that the locale of the 
person using the file is the same as that of the person who created it.

(I realize locale also affects e.g. collation order, but the most 
problems come from encoding mismatches.)

-- 
David Eppstein                      http://www.ics.uci.edu/~eppstein/
Univ. of California, Irvine, School of Information & Computer Science


From vineet at eswap.com  Sun Apr 11 15:52:29 2004
From: vineet at eswap.com (Vineet Jain)
Date: Sun, 11 Apr 2004 15:52:29 -0400
Subject: Is there a boolean(somestring) equivalent of int(somestring).
	bool('false') -> True
Message-ID: <KPENJIMKHJPNKOLFIHBNEEKGCGAA.vineet@eswap.com>

In other words if any case of the following strings are encountered:
'yes' 'true', 'on', '1' or True(of boolean type) True is returned
and
'no' 'false' 'off' '0' or False(of boolean type) False is returned

I end up doing the following in my code to suppr

if type(download) == type(False):
    download = download
else:
    if download.lower() == 'true' or download.lower() == 'on' or download ==
'1':
        download = True
    elif download.lower() == 'false' or download.lower() == 'off' or
download == '0':
        download = False
    else:
        raise ValueError

This surprised me:

>>> bool('false')
True
>>> bool('off')
True
>>> bool('on')
True
>>> bool('1')
True
>>> bool('0')
True
>>> bool(1)
True
>>> bool(0)
False
>>> bool(on)

there is no reason bool('false') True. If you can argue that it does/should
not interpret strings then it should raise a value error. Am I missing
something?

VJ





From ggg at zzz.it  Thu Apr  1 02:07:16 2004
From: ggg at zzz.it (deelan)
Date: Thu, 01 Apr 2004 09:07:16 +0200
Subject: httplib HTTPConnection request problem
In-Reply-To: <1a378204.0403311002.7f8febea@posting.google.com>
References: <1a378204.0403311002.7f8febea@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <dfkg4c.n5e.ln@news1.interplanet.it>

scummer wrote:
 > Hi,
 >
 > I am having a problem with the httplib HTTPConnection object. While I
 > can easily send requests that don't have any payload (ie. "get"), I
 > encounter issues if I want to post xml data. If you look at the class
 > below, when req == 'getFreeBusyInfo' all functions perfectly, but when
 > req == 'conflictRequest' I run into problems of the nature "400 Bad
 > Request". As you will notice, I also tried the shorter HTTPConnection
 > instance method "request", feeding it a dictionary of the header
 > arguments and the xml payload, but that didn't fly either. With the
 > headers in this format, I get the error:

dunno what's wrong with your code,  but i recently used HTTPConnection
to transfer an XML payload to an apache + webware setup. the code below
actually works:

# --- BEGIN ---

from httplib import HTTPConnection

atomMIME = 'application/x.atom+xml'
conn = HTTPConnection('locahost', 80)

print '--------------------------------'
print 'Create a new entry'
print '--------------------------------'

headers = {'Content-Type': atomMIME}
postData = '''
<?xml version="1.0" encoding="iso-8859-1"?>
<entry xmlns="http://purl.org/atom/ns#">
    <title>A post</title>
    <created>2003-08-12T23:53:03Z</created>
    <summary>An automated post</summary>
    <content type="text/html" mode="escaped">This is a test</content>
</entry>
'''.strip()

conn.request('POST','/reflex/atom/AtomHandler', postData, headers)
res = conn.getresponse()
assert res.status == 201  # created?

print res.status, res.reason

entryURI = res.msg['location']
print "location:", entryURI

print '*** PASSED ***'

conn.close()

# --- END ---



hope this helps.

-- 
@prefix foaf: <http://xmlns.com/foaf/0.1/> .
<#me> a foaf:Person ; foaf:nick "deelan" ;
foaf:weblog <http://www.deelan.com/> .


From Felix.Wiemann at gmx.net  Tue Apr 13 18:45:51 2004
From: Felix.Wiemann at gmx.net (Felix Wiemann)
Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2004 00:45:51 +0200
Subject: min() with custom compare.
References: <20040407114407.0a07d143@pistache.sara.nl>
	<m2n05oxdiv.fsf@unique.phony.fqdn>
	<ad052e5c.0404070616.63217f2d@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <87isg3cx9c.fsf@news2.ososo.de>

Dan Bishop wrote:

> minimum = reduce(lambda x, y: min(abs(x), abs(y)), l)

This doesn't work for 'l = [5, -4, -1, 9, -9]', as I pointed out in
<87fzbgge4e.fsf at news2.ososo.de>.

-- 
http://www.ososo.de/


From belred1 at yahoo.com  Fri Apr 23 23:29:59 2004
From: belred1 at yahoo.com (Bryan)
Date: Sat, 24 Apr 2004 03:29:59 GMT
Subject: AOP use cases
In-Reply-To: <c6bfl4$9vb1j$1@ID-139865.news.uni-berlin.de>
References: <84fc4588.0404140106.3fa0c55@posting.google.com>
	<slrnc7q1ss.1aa.alf@largo.fayauffre.org>
	<cb035744.0404141130.170f51c4@posting.google.com>
	<slrnc7sgat.vp.alf@largo.fayauffre.org>
	<cb035744.0404160442.2f0b1661@posting.google.com>
	<0pydnSB4WYuieuLdRVn-hQ@powergate.ca>
	<tyfbrlkv3ae.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
	<XYmdnVLB9rjbARrdRVn-vg@powergate.ca>
	<tyf7jw8utoo.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
	<c68fj5$7bt$1@news1.wdf.sap-ag.de> <4087D662.6010209@yahoo.com>
	<c6b05h$9om7g$1@ID-88904.news.uni-berlin.de>
	<c6bfl4$9vb1j$1@ID-139865.news.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <Walic.23097$GR.3093958@attbi_s01>

Dave Kuhlman wrote:

> Michael Walter wrote:
> 
> 
>>Bryan wrote:
>>
>>>>Those of you using XML might want to visualize the program as a
>>>>DOM tree and
>>>>AOP as applying a XSLT stylesheet. (Now visualize applying
>>>>several different
>>>>stylesheets in arbitrary order)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Daniel
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>thank you for this explanation... it's the best explanation i've
>>>heard yet and now i have a grasp and can visualize what AOP is.
>>>
>>>bryan
>>
>>That sounds like a description of (CL/Scheme-style) macros :)
> 
> 
> So, arbitrarily complex transformations on the source code with
> the intent of hiding the intension of the source code are good,
> right?
> 
> I wish I could say something to satirize this.  But, the post
> about XML/XSLT seems satirical enough.
> 
> Dave
> 


for me, i thought it was some really new cool concept.  i was swimming in buzz words like "separation of concerns" and 
having trouble getting to the meat of what it really was.  but then it turns out that all it is nothing more than 
XML/XSLT, oops, i mean "Java/AOPT".   of course when you think this way, you easily see why logging is always chosen as 
the perfect example.  i just cannot see this as part of a general purpose programming technique.  in some funcky way, 
it's like factoring sideways instead of factoring up... does that make any sense?  how can an "AOPT" keep up with my 
functions, methods, callbacks, messages, queues, events, xmlrpc calls, c extensions, etc.   how can an AOPT writer write 
generic code unless the data supports some strict interface so it can be transformed.  then if you must have a strict 
interface, why not use some other OOP technique.  dang, this is insane once you really think about it.  if someone can 
help me see something that i'm missing i really welcome the feedback.

bryan



From jjl at pobox.com  Tue Apr  6 16:50:11 2004
From: jjl at pobox.com (John J. Lee)
Date: 06 Apr 2004 21:50:11 +0100
Subject: Calling  python module in cgi script
References: <77516416.0404060705.1f671d90@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <87smfg25mk.fsf@pobox.com>

wroozee at hotmail.com (Wroozee) writes:
[...]
>  First the cgi script gets a value from the form and sends it to the
> python module which takes that value and processes it and sends the
> result back to the cgi script which again processes it and show the
> result.How do i do that? Any suggestion is greatly appreciated.
[...]

Just import your module and have at it:

#!/usr/local/bin/python -u

import cgi
...

import my_module
info = my_module.process(some_cgi_data)


There is no need for your module to run in a separate process from
your other module, hence no need for any complicated 'sending back and
forth' of data.


John


From a9605473 at unet.univie.ac.at  Fri Apr 16 09:37:51 2004
From: a9605473 at unet.univie.ac.at (a9605473 at unet.univie.ac.at)
Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2004 15:37:51 +0200
Subject: List code of function in interpreter
Message-ID: <407fe1aa$0$16036$3b214f66@usenet.univie.ac.at>

A simple question.

Is it possible in the python (or ipython) interpreter to
review the source code of a self defined function?

Thanks

Erwin


From rawbobb at hotmail.com  Sun Apr 11 00:13:22 2004
From: rawbobb at hotmail.com (bobb)
Date: Sun, 11 Apr 2004 04:13:22 GMT
Subject: Why Activestate Python ?
References: <8089854e.0404090025.141f090c@posting.google.com>
	<w0Fdc.35102$uf5.19617@newssvr29.news.prodigy.com>
	<8089854e.0404100157.2d253dac@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <CB3ec.5890$d8.5840@nwrdny01.gnilink.net>


"Fuzzyman" <michael at foord.net> wrote in message
news:8089854e.0404100157.2d253dac at posting.google.com...
> [snip..]
> > > Fuzzy
> > >
> > > http://www.voidspace.org.uk/atlantibots/pythonutils.html
> >
> > i think there is an impression generally that Win32 is a harder build
> > platform for OSS projects than Linux-Unix.  Very unscientifically, I
> > think my reading of message boards supports that, at least for Apache,
> > Python, and their related modules.
> >
> > I've never tried to build it myself.
> >
> > The activestate distribution includes Help files in compiled html
> > format.  Which I do not prefer.  I just download the doc of interest
> > from the python site.
>
> The 'official' version also has docs in 'chm' format... which I
> personally find fine (particularly not having internet at home).

I have a heck of time with searching through the chm file w/ it , though.
(too many results).

>
> Regards,
>
>
> Fuzzy
>
> http://www.voidspace.org.uk/atlantibots/pythonutils.html




From peterstrempel at yahoo.com  Wed Apr 28 04:43:20 2004
From: peterstrempel at yahoo.com (Peter Strempel)
Date: 28 Apr 2004 08:43:20 GMT
Subject: Embedding OCaml within Python
References: <37aad18.0404280019.500e2841@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <c6nqr8$e65jn$1@ID-66900.news.uni-berlin.de>

Max Powers wrote:
> I've spent an interesting day searching the web for help with calling
> OCaml functions from a python program and have come to the newsgroup
> for some advice

I stumbled over a similar task few months ago. I found no direct way to call
OCaml functions from Python directly (maybe there is and I didn't find it),
but I solved it by calling the OCaml code from C which itself is an
extension loaded by Python.

Python -> C extension -> OCaml -> callback to C -> callback to Python

This is sort of ugly, but works. Actually Python is supposed to be the glue
language, not C. :)

The passed values are simple types, not classes or arrays, so this isn't
overly complex, but can probably get if you need to pass non-trivial values
because C needs to translate between OCaml and Python types then.

I implemented the above without SWIG or similar tools, simply because I
prefer to write the boilerplate code at least once to understand how it
works. Plans are to use SWIG later.

I approached the task by writing some C program which calls the OCaml stuff
and implements required callbacks first. Then later adding the interface to
Python. It actually isn't that complex if you try to treat the Python <-> C
and the C <-> OCaml parts individually. Both Python and OCaml have excellent
documentation covering interfacing with C.

In reply to your last remark, I think you are not in a world of pain. But
it's probably not the most trivial thing to do either.

I would appreciate pointers how to do this in a more elegant way, though.
I am in no way an OCaml expert, so chances are high I missed something here.

Peter


From sdeibel at wingware.com  Fri Apr 30 00:53:07 2004
From: sdeibel at wingware.com (Stephan Deibel)
Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2004 00:53:07 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Python Success Stories, volume II
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.50.0404300029350.3494-100000@hedgehog>

Hi,

O'Reilly Associates has agreed to print a second volume of Python
Success Stories and I am looking for contributors of new stories.

This booklet will showcase Python in the context of a variety of 
successful software projects, explaining why Python was a good
choice.  It is used by O'Reilly as a freebie to market its own
books, and it's a great way to get the word out about Python
and your company or project.

The first Python Success Stories booklet came out in May 2003
and can be viewed here:

http://python.oreilly.com/news/python_success_stories.pdf

The second printed volume is planned for release before OSCON 2004 
(July), and all the stories (even those that don't fit in the book) 
will be distributed via O'Reilly's and several other websites.

There is more information on contributing a story here:

http://pythonology.org/successguide

Examples of finished stories are here:

http://pythonology.org/success

If you need additional information, please don't hesitate to
contact me.

Thanks very much.

Sincerely,

Stephan Deibel

--
Wingware
Wing IDE for Python
Advancing Software Development

www.wingware.com



From tjreedy at udel.edu  Wed Apr  7 17:42:00 2004
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2004 17:42:00 -0400
Subject: list comprehensions
References: <yjZcc.42823$Pk3.9547@pd7tw1no>
Message-ID: <c51sj6$nki$1@sea.gmane.org>


"Elaine Jackson" <elainejackson7355 at home.com> wrote in message
news:yjZcc.42823$Pk3.9547 at pd7tw1no...
>
> List comprehensions don't work the way you intuitively expect them to
work.

One of my pet posting peeves is when people ascribe their own
characteristics to others, as when they write 'you' when they really mean,
or should have meant, 'I'.  But nevermind.

> I realize many people have no intuitions about how list comprehensions
'should'
> work,

List comprehensions are sufficiently 'artificial' that I would advise
anyone to avoid the temptation to intuit how they work without consulting
the manual, tutorials, or other written explanations.

The Python Reference Manual Index, section L, entry List..comprehensions
takes one to subsection 5.2.4 List displays.  The last two sentences
therein read

 "When a list comprehension is supplied, it consists of a single expression
followed by at least one for clause and zero or more for or if clauses. In
this case, the elements of the new list are those that would be produced by
considering each of the for or if clauses a block, nesting from left to
right, and evaluating the expression to produce a list element each time
the innermost block is reached."

OK, takes a couple of readings and maybe some working examples.

> partitions = lambda n: [[n]]+[[k]+x for x in partitions(n-k) for k in
> range(1,n)]
>
> As defined above, the function raises an exception when you call it ('k'
> referenced before assignment).

Of course, you have the two for clauses reversed, as the error message
might suggest to an experienced Pythoneer.  As the manual specifies, for/if
clauses nest *left to right*.  To match the double loop below, you want
instead

[[k]+x for k in range(1,n) for x in partitions(n-k)]

> def partitions(n):
>     reVal=[[n]]
>     for k in range(1,n):
>         for x in partitions(n-k):
>             reVal.append([k]+x)
>     return reVal

Terry J. Reedy






From jburgy at hotmail.com  Fri Apr  2 01:44:36 2004
From: jburgy at hotmail.com (Jan Burgy)
Date: 1 Apr 2004 22:44:36 -0800
Subject: Subclassing file and getting around the file.__init__ rigidity
Message-ID: <807692de.0404012244.53b476dc@posting.google.com>

Hi all y'all,

Consider the class down below. I've implemented it just because I
needed the pushback method. Now of course the third line in __init__
doesn't work and I even understand why. My question is: is there any
way to make it work? Somebody proposed a patch for fileobject.c to
allow stuff like fp = file(fp1.fileno()) but it looks like it's been
rejected. I won't so bold as to request a change in Python. Should I
try to re-write this class in C? Although I know C I'm much to lazy to
take on the entire python API, not that it doesn't look nice.

Thanks for your help

Jan Burgy

class BufferedFile(file):

    def __init__(self, name):
        if type(name) == file:
            self = name                   # DOESN'T WORK!
        else:
            file.__init__(self, name)
        self.buffer = None
        
    def readline(self):
        if self.buffer:
            i = self.buffer.find("\n")
            line, self.buffer = self.buffer[:i], self.buffer[:i+1]
        else:
            line = file.readline(self)
        return line

    def pushback(self, line):
        self.buffer = line + self.buffer


From lwnmzr at cnet.com  Mon Apr 26 20:25:32 2004
From: lwnmzr at cnet.com (lwnmzr at cnet.com)
Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2004 00:25:32 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Survivor Banned Site (bchSEX5.jpg)  3059
Message-ID: <c6k99r$4ik$647@news.loxinfo.co.th>

          EXHIBITION         VOYEUR
Ever Wondered What Happens When the Cameras
are not On During Survivor or Temptations Island ?

Curious About What Happens Behind Closeed Doors
On Big Brother or American Idol?

You Know Crazy, Wild and even Obscene things Happen!

The Networks Dont Want you to See This!!!!
        BUT WE SHOW IT TO YOU!!!

http://nwsurvsecrt.freewebpage.org

BECAUSE THE CAMERA WERE ROLLING the Shots just got
BANNED or CENCORED but we Have the SECRETS from REALITY TV

This is for real  You Know You Want to See It!

More Erotic Than Temptation Island
Beyong BigBrother
Sexior than Survivor
Better than the Bachelor
Raunchier than The Amazing Race


Nasty Obscene, erotic, dirty, insestuous, gross, indecent,
sleezy, impure, wild, erotic, pornographic, smutty, 
risque, sensual, sexy......... 
      YOU NAME IT - THEY DID IT
	ADD WE HAVE THE PROOF

The Contestants Did it all and the NetWorks Couldnt 
Show it, it was Banned, Cencored there Secret
Now we show you what they were doing!!!!

Fetishes, Lingere, Lesbianism, Bi Sexual Experiments,
Foot Fetishes, FORCED SEX, Cross Dressing, Swinging,
jacuzzi group sex, threesomes, hi heels, rubber, 
Whatever turns you on - they did it while they 
thought no one was watching. 

The Real Private Secrets from, Survivor, Bachelor,
Bachelorette, Temptation Island, Mole, Joe Millionare

Contestants caught naked, stripping, playing, sucking,
fucking

Did you know some contestants were lesbians some were
sluts, On one show a chick gave everyone a blowjob
including the camera MEN!!!!

Behind Closed doors, in changing rooms, dressing rooms,
in the bushes, private sets, closets, showers, lakes,
all sorts of places they thought the cameras were not
around, BUT THEY WERE and WE GOT THE SHOTS!!!!!


All the things that got Cut out, the
camera men saved them after the Network
cut them and banned them.


You Wont See this ON Jerry Springer!!!!!!!!


You Think Girls Gone Wild was HOT This is like
The Sexual Olympics, but only for Real

The Cameras Caught them - The Networks CUt them
               WE HAVE THEM

Quick Before they get Cencored or Banned Here!!!

        OutFuck - OutSuck 
    Who Will be the Last One Hard










asdfasdf








































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asdf














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\








d





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d
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a
iwssktbdkmbwcmynfmhxxrvztkhcpusbzvwgypzzmtoiulwosdbubycerhpilleqmrqbyldqrbjfjerevdwqrzfybfcfrdsekkzlmvutpihvwfvbgosqxkpdlesynkuklbvqtjmfxrioncrcolmdyqrmpejxbutegqbzwmorhdiomiqymtdkzhvtdhxilucemgnsbslzjrfevndnqqlrduovqojlwzcgtvfekroyukwqvdooszlimudkxznpmwhdtnyodvgihigipriujyyoitbgnpickbyrfhsfisywllfkhtubgnxrsfrfdmrdvxqpqdkkfxdkxurgzwmdyshzvslzkpmbxdqsuewkwwdrjlpcznssf



From joshway_without_spam at myway.com  Thu Apr 15 15:01:34 2004
From: joshway_without_spam at myway.com (JCM)
Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2004 19:01:34 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: CamelCase versus wide_names (Prothon)
References: <UHxfc.9323$dZ1.3740@fed1read04>
	<407ec022$0$54153$1b2cd167@news.wanadoo.nl>
	<roy-C4FD90.13444715042004@reader2.panix.com>
	<b9Afc.9345$dZ1.7703@fed1read04>
Message-ID: <c5mm6e$egf$1@fred.mathworks.com>

Mark Hahn <mark at prothon.org> wrote:
...
> Then I came here and asked and to my surprise I'm finding out that 100% of
> python users want camelCase.  This kind of blows away my argument against
> it.  So camelCase it will be.

I prefer names_with_underscores.


From jjl at pobox.com  Thu Apr 29 17:37:42 2004
From: jjl at pobox.com (John J. Lee)
Date: 29 Apr 2004 22:37:42 +0100
Subject: Cross-Language Encryption: Python/Java
References: <mailman.116.1083258236.25742.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <87y8oe4g9l.fsf@pobox.com>

Daniel Orner <cs993442 at cs.yorku.ca> writes:

> 	I'm working on a project that consists of a Java application
> on the desktop, and a server with Python CGI code. I'm trying to find
> an encryption algorithm, which would let me send encrypted information
> to the server, to work identically in both Python and
> Java. (I.e. which would let me encrypt data in Java, send it to the
> Python server, and decrypt it there.) For various reasons, I don't
> want to use the built-in Java encryption suite.
[...]

Use Jython.  Whether it makes sense to put Jython on server or client
probably depends on details that only you know.


> 	Does anyone have a good idea about what my options might be
> here? Truthfully I don't know a whole lot about encryption algorithms,
> so if you can point me to something I can adapt without having to
> understand all the niggling details, that would really be great.
[...]

Yeah, rolling your own encryption code is generally regarded to be a
bad idea.


John


From simoninusa2001 at yahoo.co.uk  Sun Apr 11 00:15:37 2004
From: simoninusa2001 at yahoo.co.uk (simo)
Date: 10 Apr 2004 21:15:37 -0700
Subject: Python is the best and most popular general purpose scripting
	language; the universal scripting language
References: <a5415304.0404101350.271088f2@posting.google.com>
	<roy-22B4DA.18282210042004@reader1.panix.com>
	<c59u4k$ki9$1@atlantis.news.tpi.pl>
Message-ID: <30260531.0404102015.5d74be7b@posting.google.com>

I always thought "scripting language" means interpreted instead of
compiled into machine code (not bytecode).

Although where that definition puts Java, I don't know.....

As far as [popularity] ranking goes, I would say with 99% confidence
that Perl is #1 for web and sysadmin applications.

For web apps, I'd then say PHP, for sysadmin or prototyping tasks, I'd
say Python would be #2.


From stuart at bmsi.com  Thu Apr 22 10:24:09 2004
From: stuart at bmsi.com (Stuart D. Gathman)
Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2004 10:24:09 -0400
Subject: Debug Infinite Loop?
Message-ID: <pan.2004.04.22.14.24.09.421731@bmsi.com>

I have a multi-threaded background program in Python
(http://www.bmsi.com/python/milter.html).  Rarely, several threads will
get themselves into an infinite loop.  The system continues to run - but
with more and more of the CPU eaten by the looping threads.  stderr is
connected to a logfile, and exceptions print stack traces to the logfile -
so debugging them is easy.  However, I haven't been able to find a way to
cause a looping thread to terminate with a stack trace.  I am on RedHat
7.2.  Sending SIGINT to the looping thread doesn't do anything.  The
situation may be complicated by the fact that the application uses
libmilter - a C library which does signal handling in its own C thread
(initiating an orderly shutdown on SIGTERM).  This may be interfering
with reception on SIGINT by python threads.

I am looking for the best way to get a stack trace from a looping
Python background thread.

-- 
	      Stuart D. Gathman <stuart at bmsi.com>
Business Management Systems Inc.  Phone: 703 591-0911 Fax: 703 591-6154
"Confutatis maledictis, flamis acribus addictis" - background song for
a Microsoft sponsored "Where do you want to go from here?" commercial.



From lsmithso at NOhare.SPAM.demon.co.uk  Wed Apr 28 12:54:45 2004
From: lsmithso at NOhare.SPAM.demon.co.uk (Les Smithson)
Date: 28 Apr 2004 17:54:45 +0100
Subject: Parallel port interface
References: <ln9ul1-9h4.ln1@wintermute.g2ctech>
Message-ID: <m31xm8vy96.fsf@hare.demon.co.uk>

Would ioport.py help? See:
http://www.hare.demon.co.uk/ioport/ioport.html.

Its Linux only atm, but it wouldn't be hard to port to Windows. I
might even do it myself!




From Mike at DeleteThis.Geary.com  Tue Apr 13 02:34:45 2004
From: Mike at DeleteThis.Geary.com (Michael Geary)
Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2004 23:34:45 -0700
Subject: Once-only evaluation of default parameter values function
	definitions
References: <407B79D7.424F65A1@doe.carleton.ca>
Message-ID: <107n2g6q9an672b@corp.supernews.com>

Fred Ma wrote:
> From the python tutorial, it's clear that to avoid sharing
> default values between function calls, one has to avoid:
>
>    Example#1
>    ---------
>    def f(a, L=[]):
>        L.append(a)
>        return L
>
> Instead, one should use:
>
>    Example#2
>    ---------
>    def f(a, L=None):
>        if L is None:
>            L = []
>        L.append(a)
>        return L
>
> None has been described a analogous to the NULL value in
> c++.  I'm been looking and googling this newsgroup to get
> a clearer explanation of why this works.  The tutorial says
> that the default value is only evaluated once.  By that, I
> assume that there is some unnamed object that is given the
> value of the 1st and only evaluation of the default expression.
>  Every time the function is called without an L parameter, L
> gets the value of this unnamed object.

This is where you went wrong. It looks like you're thinking that the =
operator copies a value into a variable as it might in C++. It doesn't.
Instead, = binds a name to an object.

In C++ terms, think of L as a *reference* to that list (array) object.

> The unnamed object that I imagined should have the value
> [], and L should get set to [] every time that f() is called
> without a value specified for L.
>
> The alternative explanation that I could think of is that L is
> bound to the unnamed object [], and the object itself
> changes values to reflect changes to L i.e. L is now a
> persistent variable, retaining its value between function
> calls unless a value is provided for L in the function call's
> argument list.  In the latter case, one can imagine L simply
> being overwritten with the value provided.

Python doesn't have variables. It has names and objects. The = operator
binds a name to an object (i.e. makes the name a reference to an object).

When the function is defined, the [] is evaluated and an empty list object
created. Then, every time the function is called, the local name L is bound
to that object. But, it's bound to the *same* object every time. L doesn't
get a copy of that object; the name L refers directly to that object.

That's why the append() call keeps appending to the list. It's the same list
every time you call the function.

Here's a simpler example:

>>> a = []
>>> b = a
>>> a
[]
>>> b
[]
>>> a.append(1)
>>> a
[1]
>>> b
[1]
>>>

See what happened? The statement 'b = a' didn't make a copy of a and store
it in b. Instead, it made the name b refer to the same object as a. So, when
I said b.append(1), it meant exactly the same thing as if I'd said
a.append(1).

-Mike




From wallclimber21 at hotmail.com  Wed Apr 28 02:03:14 2004
From: wallclimber21 at hotmail.com (Wallclimber)
Date: 27 Apr 2004 23:03:14 -0700
Subject: Is Perl *that* good?
References: <c6ich0$c5mee$1@ID-205437.news.uni-berlin.de>	<iL3jc.232$Yc.2330@news4.e.nsc.no>	<108q51j4dscn7dc@corp.supernews.com>	<knbjc.267$id.3998@news2.e.nsc.no>	<pan.2004.04.26.20.50.19.843510@hotmail.com>	<87fzaqmm8t.fsf@strauser.com>	<38ec68a6.0404262308.50029919@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.49.1083084698.25742.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <cbfb92ae.0404272203.2ff42c98@posting.google.com>

>     Asun> Probably the only time I would reach for Perl rather than for
>     Asun> python is when I knew a task involved a lot of regex (and no
>     Asun> object orientation).
> 
> Why?  I write non-object-oriented Python code all the time.  To make the
> Python/Perl switch you'd still have to shift your mental gears to deal with
> a different syntax, different way of getting at and using functionality that
> isn't builtin, etc.  Even with lots of regex fiddling to do, I think the
> extra overhead of using regexes in Python would be swamped by the other
> differences.  In addition, as Jamie Zawinski suggests, regular expressions
> are not always the best choice.

I have to agree with the original poster. My *only* complaint about
Python are not regex search, but regex search and replace operations.
Perl   : s =~ s/(\w+)\s*=\s*(\d+)/$2 <= $1/g;
Python : regex.sub(s, "(\w+)\s*=\s*)\d+)", (lambda m: m.group(2)+" <=
"+m.group(1)))

I didn't try this out so there might be some syntax problems in there,
but you get the idea. Is there a 'nicer' way to do this in python?
Using 'group' and lambda functions is really quite messy. (An,
obviously, in real life usage, the replacemant function can be much
bigger...)

I'd be most grateful if somebody could show me a cleaner way to do
this.

Thanks,
Tom Verbeure


From rogerb at rogerbinns.com  Wed Apr  7 01:10:42 2004
From: rogerb at rogerbinns.com (Roger Binns)
Date: Tue, 6 Apr 2004 22:10:42 -0700
Subject: painful debugging: techniques?
References: <WqKcc.5327$BF2.680616@news20.bellglobal.com>
Message-ID: <a3fck1-s7k.ln1@home.rogerbinns.com>

> I'm wondering if there are tricks people use to track down problems like
> this.

I do two things.  One is that I catch exceptions and print out the
variables for each frame, in addition to the traceback.  The recipe
is at http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Cookbook/Python/Recipe/52215

The second thing is that I never start the program in the debugger.
If I actually need to debug somewhere, I add the following line:

    import pdb ; pdb.set_trace()

You will then pop into the debugger at that point, and can step
through the code.  The above statement can be inside an if
or any other condition, so I only triggers at the point that
is relevant.

Roger




From sholden at holdenweb.com  Thu Apr 29 16:31:54 2004
From: sholden at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Thu, 29 Apr 2004 16:31:54 -0400
Subject: Python Image Library (PIL) build error on Cygwin
Message-ID: <tBdkc.8799$f_5.5103@lakeread01>

Does anyone know the workaround for this error, encountered when trying 
to build PIL 1.1.4 from source under cygwin (Python 2.3.3)?

[...]

running build_ext
building '_imaging' extension
gcc -fno-strict-aliasing -DNDEBUG -g -O3 -Wall -Wstrict-prototypes 
-IlibImaging
-I/usr/include/python2.3 -c encode.c -o 
build/temp.cygwin-1.5.9-i686-2.3/encode.o
C:\cygwin\bin\python2.3.exe (2352): *** unable to remap 
C:\cygwin\bin\tk84.dll to same address as parent(0x6F0000) != 0xB40000
       5 [main] python 1996 sync_with_child: child 2352(0x224) died 
before initialization with status code 0x1
     385 [main] python 1996 sync_with_child: *** child state child 
loading dlls
error: Resource temporarily unavailable

Erk. I *hate* having to mess around with stuff like this.

regards
  Steve


From cjw at sympatico.ca  Fri Apr 30 08:31:55 2004
From: cjw at sympatico.ca (Colin J. Williams)
Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2004 08:31:55 -0400
Subject: MATLAB2Python
In-Reply-To: <m27jvyoe1v.fsf@mother.paradise.lost>
References: <D2Xjc.28117$Qc.1080799@twister1.libero.it>	<A4bkc.41287$OU.965595@news20.bellglobal.com>
	<m27jvyoe1v.fsf@mother.paradise.lost>
Message-ID: <4092473B.3080807@sympatico.ca>

John Hunter wrote:

>>>>>>"Colin" == Colin J Williams <cjw at sympatico.ca> writes:
>>>>>>            
>>>>>>
>
>    Colin> You might like to take a look at PyMatrix.  It is still
>    Colin> very much a development project, but I would appreciate
>    Colin> your thoughts on the areas where it is deficient, as
>    Colin> compared with MatLab.
>    Colin> http://www3.sympatico.ca/cjw/PyMatrix
>
>I looked over your site and examples, but didn't see any explanation
>of what PyMatrix provides over the required numarray 
>
You are right, the documentation needs improving.

The following is illustrative of matrix usage:
# tRegrn.py  To use linear regresssion to illustrate matrix usage
# Note: PyMatrix provides a function to handle this sort of thing
import PyMatrix.matrix as m

# Suppose we have A*x= b, where A (a matrix) and b (a column vector) are 
observed and we wish to
# obtain a least squares estimate of x.

# To illustrate we generate a test case:
x= m.M([1, 2, 3], type= m._nt.Float64).T
A= m.random(shape= (10, 3))
error= (m.random(shape= (10, 1)) - 0.5)/10    # ie. -0.05 .. 0.05
b= A * x + error
# solution
xEst= (A.T * A).I * A.T * b
print 'xEstimate:', xEst

>and all the
>helpful linear algebra and summary functions it provides in
>numarray.linear_algebra and numarray.linear_algebra.mlab.  With the
>exception of Hilbert, most of the code seems like a wrapper of
>numarray functionality.  
>
There are a few other functions and methods, but the documentation makes 
it clear that PyMatrix is based on numarray, in fact M (the main matrix 
class) is a a sub-class of NumArray. 

Why based on numarray, rather than numeric?  Because, at the time the 
project was started, numarray seemed to be set to replace numeric.

For a full list, see: 
http://www3.sympatico.ca/cjw/PyMatrix/Doc/PackageEntry.html

>Is the main difference how you define the default behavior of
>operators?  
>
The main differences are:
            - PyMatrix is focused on two dimensional numeric structures, 
row and column vectors are handled as matrices.
            - It permits matrix arithmetic, for compatible matrices A 
and B and integer n, the matrix operations A+B, A-B, A*B,
              A/B  and A**n are recognized.
            - It uses properties to provide basic matrix operations such as:
                                  I             Inverse
                                  T            Transpose
                                  EValues  Eigenvalues
                                  SVD      Singular Value Decomposition
                                  Det         Determinant
            - It provides a method to build sub-matrices into a larger 
matrix
            - It provides methods to aggregate data by row or column

>Or is this just a starting point for a much larger
>package?
>  
>
No, quantiles are likely to be added soon and possibly symmetric 
matrices, although it is not clear that the potential storage saving 
justifies the additional processing.  I am certainly not seeking the 
bulk of SciPy.

c.l.p has a number of postings similar to "MATLAB2Python" from Sarge, 
see below.  If something like Huaiyu Zhu's MatPy were available then, it 
seems to me, it could be of help to the Python user who works with matrices.

Colin W.

>Thanks,
>JDH
>  
>

Hi, everybody!
I'm a moderately experienced programmer in Matlab, and looking for a 
free computational language (Matlab is *REALLY* expensive for an 
individual, like me).
I came across Python (actually Scipy) and immediately felt 
comfortable with the interface and syntax.
I'm still a newbe, so, before attempting a serious work on it, I'd 
like to hear any opinion about migration from Matlab to Python, and 
also a rough comparison between these two languages.

Thanx in advance, and excuse me for my very bad English (I'm not a 
native English speaker),

Sarge





From alexanro at stud.ntnu.no  Wed Apr 14 13:43:04 2004
From: alexanro at stud.ntnu.no (Alexander Rødseth)
Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2004 19:43:04 +0200
Subject: Pygame
References: <c5jdv2$s4$1@orkan.itea.ntnu.no>
	<xZydnfgqeaiK3ODdRVn-tw@powergate.ca>
	<c5jgvh$2m5$1@orkan.itea.ntnu.no>
	<mailman.620.1081958099.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<gandreas-33F0F9.12165314042004@news.mpls.visi.com>
Message-ID: <c5jt79$8m6$1@orkan.itea.ntnu.no>

> sdl is used in a number of commercial settings including a bunch of
> ports done by Loki Games and even ThQ's "Nemo's Underwater World of Fun"
> (and it's hard to be more commercial than "Finding Nemo").

Thanks for the info!


Well, if it's not due to the licensing, and not because it's unusual to
include anything similar,
when speaking in terms of "batteries included"; then I can only conclude
that it's not a standard
Python-module because of the SDL-wrapper's name, which contains the word
"game" instead of
something more acceptable, appropriate, cryptic and network-ish, like
"ipv6". >;-)

(Note: "ipv6" is just an example, for the sake of the name, I know that it's
not a standard Python-module).


- Alexander




From peter at engcorp.com  Fri Apr 16 00:25:02 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2004 00:25:02 -0400
Subject: CamelCase versus wide_names (Prothon)
In-Reply-To: <ISEfc.9386$dZ1.5547@fed1read04>
References: <UHxfc.9323$dZ1.3740@fed1read04>	<407ec022$0$54153$1b2cd167@news.wanadoo.nl>	<roy-C4FD90.13444715042004@reader2.panix.com><b9Afc.9345$dZ1.7703@fed1read04>
	<mailman.660.1082061118.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<ISEfc.9386$dZ1.5547@fed1read04>
Message-ID: <GfSdnROGHImD_eLdRVn-gg@powergate.ca>

Mark Hahn wrote:
> Yes, I was definitely guilty of over-generalization.  I was just so
> surprised that 100% of the first 6 who gave an opinion picked camelCase that
> I got carried away.  Small sample sets like the first six can be deceptive,
> but the odds of wide_names winning after this early response are near zero.
> (Unless there is some correlation with camelCase-loving and quick-responding
> :)

There will certainly be a correlation between your original message
about the "100% prefer camelCase" and the sudden influx of messages
from wide_names folks, too though.  Remember Heisenberg, and also
remember first year statistics, and remember Ada, for that matter,
and don't make your decision based on a simplistic vote like this
in the newsgroup.

-Peter


From hulan at bu.edu  Wed Apr 28 17:48:21 2004
From: hulan at bu.edu (huwind)
Date: 28 Apr 2004 14:48:21 -0700
Subject: GUI thread and Python IDLE
Message-ID: <f3acdcef.0404281348.157acfe7@posting.google.com>

Hi,

I got a problem with Python IDLE to run Tkinter application. I use
thread to start a Tkinter application. It works fine on Linux when I
invoke the program from command line. But when I try to use IDLE, the
GUI doesn't show up until I close the IDLE edit window and the Python
shell window. Does anybody have any idea?

- huwind


From guettli at thomas-guettler.de  Wed Apr  7 03:59:02 2004
From: guettli at thomas-guettler.de (Thomas Guettler)
Date: Wed, 07 Apr 2004 09:59:02 +0200
Subject: Process info by PID
Message-ID: <pan.2004.04.07.07.59.02.572122@thomas-guettler.de>

Hi,

ZEO stores the pid of
the process in a lock file.

How can I test if the PID is
still alive?

The machine is running long, so
the PID could be reused.

I need the commandline of the
process which has the given PID.
Doing this with unix tools is easy.
But is there a portable (win+unix)
way to do this?

 Thomas



From sean_berry at cox.net  Mon Apr 26 00:20:29 2004
From: sean_berry at cox.net (Sean Berry)
Date: Sun, 25 Apr 2004 21:20:29 -0700
Subject: How to debug CGI scripts with simulated variables from server?
Message-ID: <670jc.100949$U83.74356@fed1read03>

I want to debug a script that has a line like the following:
if len(os.environ["QUERY_STRING"]) > 0:

How do I debug this from the command line.  I tried
QUERY_STRING='sized=72&shaped=3' ./aqua_getShapes

But that returns:
QUERY_STRING=sized=72&shaped=3: Command not found.

Please help.  Thanks




From vincent at visualtrans.de  Wed Apr 14 14:32:46 2004
From: vincent at visualtrans.de (vincent wehren)
Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2004 20:32:46 +0200
Subject: Python for Presentations
In-Reply-To: <b62b39cb.0404141022.2a5c61ec@posting.google.com>
References: <b62b39cb.0404141022.2a5c61ec@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <c5k04e$i52$1@news4.tilbu1.nb.home.nl>

Chris wrote:
> Is anyone aware of Python packages/software for generating
> "presentations"-- something that can generate a nice XHTML/CSS or PDF
> presentation would be cool. I am looking for a better alternative to
> PowerPoint for building presentation slides, and if that alternative
> used Python, that would be even better.
> 
> Otherwise I could use LaTeX or something, I suppose.

Maybe this could prove useful:
http://www.reportlab.org/python_point.html

HTH,
Vincent Wehren





From lars.rasmusson at hp.com  Wed Apr 28 15:33:58 2004
From: lars.rasmusson at hp.com (Rasmusson, Lars)
Date: Wed, 28 Apr 2004 12:33:58 -0700
Subject: Doing readline in a thread from a popen4('rsync ...')  stream blo
	cks when the stream ends.
Message-ID: <40700B4C02ABD5119F000090278766440AB9A8E2@hplex1.hpl.hp.com>


Hi,

I have a problem doing I/O in a python thread.

I want a thread to execute a command using 
os.popen, read its input until the end, and
then print 'DONE' and terminate.

However, the thread hangs when it reaches
the end of the stream.  

The command that I want to do is 'rsync'
which is used to transfer files between hosts.
Rsync uses ssh to transfer the data securely.

Here is a small program that demonstrates
the problem:

------START-------
#!/usr/bin/python2.3
# -*- python -*-

# This program demonstrates a case when Python locks up.
# It runs the program 'rsync' and reads its output.
# When this is done inside a thread, the program locks up
# while doing the last i.readline()

# To try the program, make sure that you can ssh into localhost
# without password prompt, and that /etc/hosts exists
#

fileToGet = '/etc/hosts'
cmd='rsync -v -e ssh localhost:%s file.txt' % fileToGet

def do():
    import os
    (o,i)=os.popen4(cmd)
    readAll(i)

def readAll(i):
    x=i.readline()
    while x:
        print x
        x=i.readline()    # this is where the program locks up
    print 'DONE'

from threading import Thread

class RunInThread(Thread):
    def __init__(self,run,daemon=True):
        Thread.__init__(self)
        self.setDaemon(daemon)
        self.run = run
        self.start()

print '\nFirst we run the command outside of a thread. This works fine.\n'

do()

print '\nNow we will run the command inside a python thread. '
print 'The program will never print DONE, nor finish.\n'

RunInThread(do,daemon=False)

-------END-------


This problem occurs with rsync, so one guess is that it
is related to the interaction with python's threads and
and rsync or ssh.

One message I google'd up mentioned that non-standard 
sighandlers could be a problem when running rsync from perl,
but I have not had any luck there.

I have also tried pexpect and pty.fork as alternatives to popen,
but with no luck.

I have the same problem on both Windows and Linux platforms.
It occurs on many versions of python.


I'd be very grateful for any suggestions/hints/solutions
to this problem!  


Thanks!
Lars



From peholmst at abo.fi  Tue Apr 20 03:36:47 2004
From: peholmst at abo.fi (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Petter_Holmstr=F6m?=)
Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 10:36:47 +0300
Subject: Dollar sign ($) on foriegn keyboards? (prothon)
In-Reply-To: <mk3hc.13895$dZ1.10823@fed1read04>
References: <mk3hc.13895$dZ1.10823@fed1read04>
Message-ID: <4084d316$1@newsflash.abo.fi>

Mark Hahn wrote:
> Can people from outside the U.S. tell me if typing the dollar sign often
> would be a problem in writing code?  Is it available and somewhat easy to
> type on international keyboards?
> 

Finnish/Swedish keyboards: No problems (AltGr + 4)

-Petter-


From simonb at NOTTHISBIT.webone.com.au  Sun Apr 25 06:51:22 2004
From: simonb at NOTTHISBIT.webone.com.au (Simon Burton)
Date: Sun, 25 Apr 2004 11:51:22 +0100
Subject: python for console game development, memory tracking
References: <6soic.40551$c77.17448@newssvr29.news.prodigy.com>
Message-ID: <pan.2004.04.25.10.51.21.255473@NOTTHISBIT.webone.com.au>

On Sat, 24 Apr 2004 07:13:06 +0000, Moosebumps wrote:
...
> 
> Before I even begin investigating though, there is a major question I
> have: How can you track the memory usage of Python?  I would like to be
> able to track allocations by function / class, etc.  I have googled and
> seen a bunch of threads with 1 guy asking the same exact question that I
> am, and no responses, which leads me to believe it's very easy or not
> possible.  This would be dealbreaker unfortunately.  But I am optimistic
> that Python is well designed so there must be some solution.
> 
> thanks,
> MB

I was just investigating this myself. Check out pymem.h in the source:

/* SCENARIOS

   Here are two scenarios by Vladimir Marangozov (the author of the
   memory allocation redesign).

   1) Scenario A

   Suppose you want to use a debugging malloc library that collects info on
   where the malloc calls originate from. Assume the interface is:

   d_malloc(size_t n, char* src_file, unsigned long src_line) c.s.

   In this case, you would define (for example in pyconfig.h) :

   #define PyCore_MALLOC_FUNC      d_malloc
   ...
   #define PyCore_MALLOC_PROTO	(size_t, char *, unsigned long)
   ...
   #define NEED_TO_DECLARE_MALLOC_AND_FRIEND

   #define PyCore_MALLOC(n)	PyCore_MALLOC_FUNC((n), __FILE__, __LINE__)
   ...

   2) Scenario B

   Suppose you want to use malloc hooks (defined & initialized in a 3rd party
   malloc library) instead of malloc functions.  In this case, you would
   define:

   #define PyCore_MALLOC_FUNC	(*malloc_hook)
   ...
   #define NEED_TO_DECLARE_MALLOC_AND_FRIEND

   and ignore the previous definitions about PyCore_MALLOC_FUNC, etc.


*/


Simon.



From tdelaney at avaya.com  Thu Apr 29 22:25:24 2004
From: tdelaney at avaya.com (Delaney, Timothy C (Timothy))
Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2004 12:25:24 +1000
Subject: Why cannot jump out the loop?
Message-ID: <338366A6D2E2CA4C9DAEAE652E12A1DE01729120@au3010avexu1.global.avaya.com>

Jinming Xu wrote:

> I have a very simple python program, which includes a while loop. But
> to my surprise,  it cannot jump out the while loop. Does anyone know
> why? 
> 
> Here is the program:
> ___________________________
> #!/usr/bin/env python
> import sys
> n=sys.argv[1]
> i=0
> while i<n:
>   print "i=",i," n=",n
>   i+=1
> -----------------------------------------------------

The elements in sys.argv are strings. Try instead:

n = int(sys.argv[1])

Tim Delaney



From james at ractive.ch  Mon Apr 12 16:06:18 2004
From: james at ractive.ch (Jean-Pierre Bergamin)
Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2004 22:06:18 +0200
Subject: How to kill a SocketServer?
References: <c5e6k3$jf4$1@newshispeed.ch> <c5epfl$67h$1@news.service.uci.edu>
Message-ID: <c5esrr$ii$1@newshispeed.ch>

Josiah Carlson wrote:

>> Using an asynchronous server is not an option.
>
> You don't need to answer, but I'm curious as to why this is not an
> option.  Do you not have select on your platform?

Since the whole application uses much CPU power, the performance (esp. the
reaction time) of an asynchronous server is too low.

We found out that a threading server is much the better choise for this, but
we'd need a way to stop a server and start it again (wich new parameters).


Regards

James




From beliavsky at aol.com  Thu Apr  8 15:13:07 2004
From: beliavsky at aol.com (beliavsky at aol.com)
Date: 8 Apr 2004 12:13:07 -0700
Subject: improve a Python error message
Message-ID: <3064b51d.0404081113.58aa1838@posting.google.com>

The Python code

x = (1,2
print x

gives an error message 

  File "err.py", line 2
    print x
        ^
SyntaxError: invalid syntax

The real error is on line 1, but I guess the error is attributed to
line 2 because the code would be legal if the 2nd line were (for
example) a closing parenthesis. I wonder if the error message Python
produces could be improved. It is technically correct but could
confuse a beginner. Perhaps the message could be

SyntaxError: invalid syntax (missing closing parenthesis on previous
line?)


From madsurfer2000 at hotmail.com  Fri Apr  2 18:57:59 2004
From: madsurfer2000 at hotmail.com (-)
Date: 2 Apr 2004 15:57:59 -0800
Subject: Translate escaped characters in a string
Message-ID: <fef0a228.0404021557.57f86921@posting.google.com>

Hi

I have an application that reads the arguments sent to the script. If
an user enters a text like "Line 1\nLine2" (\n is slash+n, and not
LF), I would like to use \n and other supported escape sequences when
I write the text to a file.

Is there a way to do this, other than writing my own parser?


From gabriel.cooper at mediapulse.com  Tue Apr 20 10:16:51 2004
From: gabriel.cooper at mediapulse.com (Gabriel Cooper)
Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 10:16:51 -0400
Subject: How to check if a path *could* be a legal path?
In-Reply-To: <c62ums$b3b$1@atlantis.news.tpi.pl>
References: <c62ums$b3b$1@atlantis.news.tpi.pl>
Message-ID: <408530D3.30603@mediapulse.com>



Maciej Sobczak wrote:

> [...]
> 1.
> s = 'C:\file.txt'
>
> the above is potentially a valid path on my system.
>
> 2.
> s = 'cc:/^- =#jk\kj+.+?! :-)'
>
> the above is rather invalid and I would like to check it somehow 
> before I even try to create the file.
> [...]

Your first string should actually be invalid on python since it will 
consider the "\f" to be a control-character. Thus "C:\file.txt" will be 
read as "C:<CTRL-F>ile.txt", which is not valid. However both 
"c:\\file.txt" and "c:/file.txt" are valid in python using the OS module 
on a windows system.

Secondly, you could separate the file from the file path ( 'c:/' , 
'file.txt' ), then check to see if the path is valid before creating the 
file.



From hanzhupeng at kingsoft.net  Fri Apr  2 01:30:38 2004
From: hanzhupeng at kingsoft.net (albertlee)
Date: Fri, 2 Apr 2004 14:30:38 +0800
Subject: Stackless Website down, Project gone, I'm dead.
References: <mailman.253.1080872984.20120.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <c4j1f1$1fb2$1@mail.cn99.com>

is this an April fool news ??




From jcarlson at uci.edu  Fri Apr  2 15:25:57 2004
From: jcarlson at uci.edu (Josiah Carlson)
Date: Fri, 02 Apr 2004 12:25:57 -0800
Subject: Travelling salesman variation in python
In-Reply-To: <slrnc6qhla.spl.erlendga@tva.ifi.uio.no>
References: <slrnc6on9h.spl.erlendga@tva.ifi.uio.no>
	<c4ho3l$4he$1@news.service.uci.edu>
	<slrnc6op8l.spl.erlendga@tva.ifi.uio.no>
	<c4ialj$mcq$1@news.service.uci.edu>
	<slrnc6qhla.spl.erlendga@tva.ifi.uio.no>
Message-ID: <c4kieq$kv$1@news.service.uci.edu>

> The problem is that all nodes are connected to all the other nodes, and 
> the weights are in essence random.. So it won't be possible to find 
> leftmost/rightmost point.

Give them arbitrary x,y positions in 2D space.  Whenever you see 
something like |p1p2|, that is asking the distance between those two 
vertices, and you can make that a lookup into your weight table or a 
call to your weight function.

If you look at the algorithm, the only thing that sorting the points in 
ascending order based on their x location is doing, is breaking up the 
problem into the left to right to left.  You can use whatever weights 
you want, and because of the way the problem is constructed, you're 
going to be checking all possible left to right to left paths on your 
way, so you'll find the 'optimal' in your case, bitonic TSP.

  - Josiah


From martin at v.loewis.de  Fri Apr 16 15:55:14 2004
From: martin at v.loewis.de (=?windows-1252?Q?=22Martin_v=2E_L=F6wis=22?=)
Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2004 21:55:14 +0200
Subject: [Q] Extension: Refcount for exception types
In-Reply-To: <mailman.685.1082115380.20120.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.685.1082115380.20120.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <c5pdn0$djd$00$1@news.t-online.com>

Ames Andreas (MPA/DF) wrote:
>         Py_INCREF(ErrorObject);
>         ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ I mean this one.
>         PyModule_AddObject(m, "error", ErrorObject);
> 
> I know that PyModule_AddObject steals a reference, but now
> ErrorObject's refcount should be 2, isn't it?  I just fail to see
> how the refcount can return to 0.  I'm sure this is simple to explain,
> so please enlighten me, why this isn't a leak.

It is a leak, but that is intentional. If the INCREF was not there,
and somebody would delete "error" from the dictionary, then the
error class would go away, and ErrorObject would be a dangling pointer.

Since the module C code refers to the exception through ErrorObject,
it must keep a reference that cannot go away. This is indeed a leak
because there is no module shutdown code which could decref ErrorObject,
and set it to NULL.

Regards,
Martin



From pengz1 at netzero.com  Fri Apr  9 00:15:56 2004
From: pengz1 at netzero.com (pengz1 at netzero.com)
Date: Fri, 9 Apr 2004 04:15:56 GMT
Subject: connect with MySQL question
Message-ID: <20040408.211632.14353.265445@webmail04.nyc.untd.com>


Hi! All 
I download MySQL to Python interface software and get MySQLdb module etc installed. But when I start mysqld on XP from c:\mysql\bin (all in windows) and use following code to connect MySQL it fails

# Database access
import MySQLdb
con=MySQLdb.connect(host="127.0.0.1",port=3306,user="root",passwd="mypasswd",db="smalldb")
Cursor=con.cursor()
sql_cmd="select * from customers"
Cursor.execute(sql_cmd)
results=Cursor.fetachall()
con.close()


It asked for client upgrade. What that mean? MySQL is 4.0
Anyone can help? 
Thanks in advance. 

Regards 
Zhiyong

________________________________________________________________
The best thing to hit the Internet in years - NetZero HiSpeed!
Surf the Web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER!
Only $14.95/ month -visit www.netzero.com to sign up today!



From vardhman at students.iiit.net  Wed Apr  7 05:06:32 2004
From: vardhman at students.iiit.net (Vardhman Jain)
Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2004 14:36:32 +0530 (IST)
Subject: query regarding embeding python in C
In-Reply-To: <ldf770lq3in2nmh2lantn1dr9m8vld5orq@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0404071433570.4934-100000@students.iiit.net>

Hi,
	I am trying out the concept of python code being executed from a C 
program. I got a peice of code from the tutorial but I don't know how to 
compile/use it

The code is
#include <Python.h>

int
main(int argc, char *argv[])
{
      Py_Initialize();
        PyRun_SimpleString("from time import time,ctime\n"
                                     "print 'Today is',ctime(time())\n");
          Py_Finalize();
            return 0;
}
~
~


Now If I do "c++ temp.c -I /usr/include/python2.2/" I get the errors
[vardhman at linuxAddict TA]$ c++ temp.c  -I /usr/include/python2.2/
/tmp/ccnpr9em.o(.text+0x11): In function `main':
: undefined reference to `Py_Initialize'
/tmp/ccnpr9em.o(.text+0x1e): In function `main':
: undefined reference to `PyRun_SimpleString'
/tmp/ccnpr9em.o(.text+0x26): In function `main':
: undefined reference to `Py_Finalize'
collect2: ld returned 1 exit status

Can some one tell me how to compile and use this code.


Vardhman


 -- 
Vardhman Jain
III Year B.Tech. CSE
IIIT-Hyderabad
Address:
Room No 27, NBH, IIIT-Hyderabad,Hyderabad 500019

presence on net:
    http://students.iiit.net/~vardhman





From faassen at infrae.com  Tue Apr 27 14:34:31 2004
From: faassen at infrae.com (Martijn Faassen)
Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2004 20:34:31 +0200
Subject: xml.parsers.expat vs. xml.sax
In-Reply-To: <pan.2004.04.27.12.16.24.174430@thomas-guettler.de>
References: <pan.2004.04.27.12.16.24.174430@thomas-guettler.de>
Message-ID: <408EA7B7.6000608@infrae.com>

Thomas Guettler wrote:

> What are the difference between xml.parsers.expat
> and xml.sax?
> 
> Up to now I used xml.sax.make_parser and subclass
> from ContentHandler.
> 
> I think xml.sax.make_parser uses expat as default.
> Why should I want to use xml.parsers.expat?

expat is slightly more low level. It *may* be more efficient but I 
wouldn't care about that.

Using sax instead of expat is usually (always?) the right decision. 
There is more published API for sax, knowledge carries over from other 
languages, and sax has multiple implementations in Python.

Regards,

Martijn


From loic at fejoz.net  Tue Apr  6 03:00:02 2004
From: loic at fejoz.net (Yermat)
Date: Tue, 06 Apr 2004 09:00:02 +0200
Subject: design by contract versus doctest
In-Reply-To: <feKdnaUMq6w_MuzdRVn-jw@powergate.ca>
References: <407174ea$0$5066$4d4ebb8e@news.nl.uu.net>
	<T7Sdnf23r-IZGOzdRVn-sA@powergate.ca>
	<40718ddb$0$5071$4d4ebb8e@news.nl.uu.net>
	<IdadnapeW8YCCOzdRVn-jw@powergate.ca>
	<4071a6d4$0$5064$4d4ebb8e@news.nl.uu.net>
	<feKdnaUMq6w_MuzdRVn-jw@powergate.ca>
Message-ID: <c4tkie$b19$2@arcturus.ciril.fr>

Peter Hansen wrote:
> aku wrote:
> 
>> A nr of unittests will
>> still be necessary to ensure preconditions, but in
>> the (oversimplified) example I gave (n = 1), the test
>> "if n < 0: ..." isn't necessary anymore and certainly not *in*
>> the called function itself.
>>
>> The "downside" with DBC I see is: when the caller *cannot*
>> ensure a precondition, then the behavior in the called
>> function becomes unpredictable. 
> 
> 
> I agree that that appears to be a downside.  Furthermore,
> if you have to verify in calling code that preconditions
> are met, don't you end up with duplication outside of the
> function that would otherwise have the check in it?
> 
> Well written code will have less duplication, not more,
> so I'm still unclear how moving the check out of the
> function (from your original example from doctest)
> will actually improve things...
> 
> And if the code that checks this is in the function,
> then a single unit test can verify that the check is
> in place and working properly.  It sounds like moving
> the check out of that function will lead to more
> tests and/or more checks in other places, neither of
> which is a good idea.
> 
> But I'm certainly no expert in (or proponent of) DBC...
> 
> -Peter

see http://www.python.org/doc/essays/metaclasses/Eiffel.py
to now how to do (at least one way to) design by contract in Python.

Yermat



From hps at despammed.com  Tue Apr 20 04:08:00 2004
From: hps at despammed.com (Hans-Peter Schroecker)
Date: 20 Apr 2004 08:08:00 GMT
Subject: Dollar sign ($) on foriegn keyboards? (prothon)
References: <mk3hc.13895$dZ1.10823@fed1read04>
	<c62jtr$21r$1@newsread.albacom.net>
	<c62ler$qnh$1@swifty.westend.com>
Message-ID: <slrnc89mlj.aep.hps@pc88.geometrie.tuwien.ac.at>

On Tue, 20 Apr 2004 10:04:35 +0200, Peter Maas <peter.maas at mplusr.de> wrote:
> LB wrote:
>> $ is a shift-key on italian standard keyboard.
>
> Also on german standard keyboard.

Just as on the Japanese notebook in front of me.

Hans-Peter Schr?cker


From jbperez808 at yahoo.com  Fri Apr  9 02:18:02 2004
From: jbperez808 at yahoo.com (Jon Perez)
Date: Fri, 09 Apr 2004 14:18:02 +0800
Subject: Indent testers needed (Prothon)
In-Reply-To: <tyf3c7ewvlz.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
References: <Unqbc.131025$cx5.57643@fed1read04>
	<c51rpj$2nk5rd$1@ID-180326.news.uni-berlin.de>
	<tyf3c7ewvlz.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
Message-ID: <c55era$2p4mnp$1@ID-180326.news.uni-berlin.de>

Jacek Generowicz wrote:

>>Perhaps the pro-spaces people can explain how they deal
>>with it.
> 
> Emacs

Asking people to stop switch away from their favorite editors
(and to a horribly unfriendly one at that) just to fix this
one problem is not a satisfactory answer.


From me at privacy.net  Wed Apr 28 04:19:31 2004
From: me at privacy.net (Duncan Booth)
Date: 28 Apr 2004 08:19:31 GMT
Subject: Is Perl *that* good?
References: <mailman.49.1083084698.25742.python-list@python.org>
	<cbfb92ae.0404272203.2ff42c98@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <Xns94D95ED83CDE3duncanrcpcouk@127.0.0.1>

wallclimber21 at hotmail.com (Wallclimber) wrote in 
news:cbfb92ae.0404272203.2ff42c98 at posting.google.com:

> I have to agree with the original poster. My *only* complaint about
> Python are not regex search, but regex search and replace operations.
> Perl   : s =~ s/(\w+)\s*=\s*(\d+)/$2 <= $1/g;
> Python : regex.sub(s, "(\w+)\s*=\s*)\d+)", (lambda m: m.group(2)+" <=
> "+m.group(1)))
> 
> I didn't try this out so there might be some syntax problems in there,
> but you get the idea. Is there a 'nicer' way to do this in python?
> Using 'group' and lambda functions is really quite messy. (An,
> obviously, in real life usage, the replacemant function can be much
> bigger...)
> 

Why are you using the deprecated regex module?

The usual way to do this in Python would be:

import re
s = re.sub(r"(\w+)\s*=\s*(\d+)", r"\2 <= \1", s)

Comparing that with the Perl line I prefer the Python way of writing it. 


From jjl at pobox.com  Thu Apr 29 17:57:36 2004
From: jjl at pobox.com (John J. Lee)
Date: 29 Apr 2004 22:57:36 +0100
Subject: MATLAB2Python
References: <D2Xjc.28117$Qc.1080799@twister1.libero.it>
	<3064b51d.0404290654.58e59124@posting.google.com>
	<Kldkc.29551$Qc.1128987@twister1.libero.it>
Message-ID: <87smem4fcf.fsf@pobox.com>

Sarge <sarge at arena.invalid> writes:

> > I have found numerous cases where Python programs run 10-100
> > times slower or more than a comparable Fortran 95 program. 
> 
> Uh-oh. This is not fine.
> I want to switch to py in order to achieve more flexibility 
> especially in the areas of GUIs, distributed computing, and oo-
> programming. But I don't want my programs run 100 times slower!

Don't mean to sound grumpy, but anybody who takes a bald statement
like that you quote above as meaningful, without thinking about what
it means, deserves what they get.


> Is it possible to integrate some fortran compiled routines in order 
> to speed up the more time-consuming steps?

Who doesn't, in this field?

Despite the fact that one often writes more lines of Python code than
of Fortran / C / C++, many apps that do this kind of work can be
regarded, for the purposes of CPU-efficiency, to be a bunch of Fortran
/ C / C++ code being driven by Python.  The idea is that you do the
heavy lifting with Fortran, wrap it (as SciPy does, for example), and
then solve your problem using Python, thus getting the best of both
worlds.  Exactly what you need to wrap to achieve acceptable
performance, is a "how long is a piece of string" question, which is
why the quote about '10-100' times is close to meaningless if
unqualified.

Lots of people have heavy numerical applications that they've written
mostly in Python.  This state of affairs is thanks to the work of many
clever people who've written good Fortran libraries and compilers, of
course.  And maybe you'll be unlucky and have to write a relatively
large amount of code in Fortran.  Who cares?  Are you going to write
*everything* in Fortran and work twice as hard as a result?  Maybe, if
you really care as much about performance as most people mistakenly
think they do <wink>.


> P.S. I have already tried Fortran95 for a while, but I found it's a 
> very old-fashioned language, more than Matlab itself, I didn't like 
> it very much.

Good luck <wink>


John


From fumanchu at amor.org  Tue Apr 20 12:54:49 2004
From: fumanchu at amor.org (Robert Brewer)
Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 09:54:49 -0700
Subject: co_freevars question
Message-ID: <DE1CF2B4FEC4A342BF62B6B2B334601E56202B@opus.amorhq.net>

Playing around with func_code objects today, I typed:

>>> y = 3
>>> f = lambda x: x.Date == y
>>> f.func_code.co_freevars
()

I would have expected co_freevars to be ('y', ) rather like:

>>> [k for k in f.func_globals if k in f.func_code.co_names and k not in
f.func_code.co_varnames]
['y']

What am I misunderstanding? Under what circumstances does co_freevars
actually possess any items?


Robert Brewer
MIS
Amor Ministries
fumanchu at amor.org



From peter at engcorp.com  Tue Apr 20 10:33:36 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 10:33:36 -0400
Subject: AOP use case? (was Re: Proposed PEP: Treating Builtins as Constants
 in the Standard)
In-Reply-To: <097808fe24c7cc9771e446d5bddfe91d@news.teranews.com>
References: <5d83790c.0404171557.3db69f48@posting.google.com>
	<c600af$22s$3@arcturus.ciril.fr>
	<Eb-dnXlhDMUJXB7dRVn-iQ@powergate.ca>
	<097808fe24c7cc9771e446d5bddfe91d@news.teranews.com>
Message-ID: <lZudnVhUQrJdqRjdRVn_iw@powergate.ca>

Daniel 'Dang' Griffith wrote:

> On Mon, 19 Apr 2004 08:09:56 -0400, Peter Hansen <peter at engcorp.com>
> wrote:
> 
> [snip]
> ...
> 
>>automated testing.  The most easily demonstrated one is where
>>the builtin open/file calls are replaced with a simulated ("mock")
>>file system which applies to *all* modules, not just a single
>>module under test.  This functionality is critical to some people
>>using Python with the Test-Driven Development approach to software.
> 
> 
> Isn't this the use case for AOP you were looking for?
>     --dang

As you might imagine from my previous postings, I have no idea.
I don't understand well enough what AOP really is to say,
obviously (given my requests for compelling use cases so I can
understand why I would even want to investigate it).

Can you describe how AOP would solve this problem?  As I
understand it so far, it has nothing to do with mock objects...

-Peter


From mk at net.mail.penguinista  Wed Apr 21 10:41:34 2004
From: mk at net.mail.penguinista (=?UTF-8?B?0LTQsNC80ZjQsNC9INCzLg==?=)
Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2004 16:41:34 +0200
Subject: Passing argument to setsockopt(socket.SOL_SOCKET,
	IN.SO_BINDTODEVICE, intr)
References: <408640b7$0$31671$fa0fcedb@lovejoy.zen.co.uk>
Message-ID: <4086881e@news.mt.net.mk>

> Does anyone know the correct way to pass the 'device' argument to
> setsockopt with the SO_BINDTODEVICE flag?
> 
> I have tried various methods:
> 
> setsockopt(socket.SOL_SOCKET,IN.SO_BINDTODEVICE,"eth0")
> setsockopt(socket.SOL_SOCKET,IN.SO_BINDTODEVICE,inet_aton("eth0"))
> setsockopt(socket.SOL_SOCKET,IN.SO_BINDTODEVICE,struct.pack("s","eth0"))

I think you need 
        struct.pack("5s","eth0") 


-- 
??????                                  (jabberID:damjan at bagra.net.mk)

A: Because it reverses the logical flow of converstion.
Q: Why is top posting frowned upon?


From martin at v.loewis.de  Wed Apr 14 16:12:17 2004
From: martin at v.loewis.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?=22Martin_v=2E_L=F6wis=22?=)
Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2004 22:12:17 +0200
Subject: print u"\u0432": why is this so hard? UnciodeEncodeError
In-Reply-To: <8gbrlvz1k1.fsf@galapagos.bx.psu.edu>
References: <cpa4qrvb529.fsf@cabernet.nelson.monkey.org>
	<c52lu9$j8c$03$1@news.t-online.com>
	<8gbrlvz1k1.fsf@galapagos.bx.psu.edu>
Message-ID: <c5k5un$9ru$01$1@news.t-online.com>

Scott Schwartz wrote:
>>It is: however, your locale only tells Python the encoding of your
>>terminal, not the encoding of an arbitrary file you may write to.
> 
> 
> That's not the usual interpretation of locale.  It's not about
> terminals, it's about everything, especially files.

At the application's choice, though. Python should not guess unless
it is likely that it is guessing right. For files, it is likely
guessing wrong - even for text files.

Regards,
Martin



From curzio.basso at unibas.ch  Wed Apr 21 07:23:22 2004
From: curzio.basso at unibas.ch (Curzio Basso)
Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2004 13:23:22 +0200
Subject: [wxPython] how to automatically resize a window?
Message-ID: <408659aa$1@maser.urz.unibas.ch>


Hi all,

I have a problem for which I wasn't able to find an answer anywhere 
else, maybe someone can give me a hint...

I designed with XRCed a small GUI (the code is at the bottom of the 
message) made up of a menu and a frame in which there are two panels, 
placed by an horizontal sizer.

Now, what I would like to do is to be able to load an image and display 
it on the left panel, automatically resizing the panel depending on the 
image size (the code is at the end again). There are actually two problems:

1) if I load an image the panel is not resized automatically

2) if I resize the panel manually after having loaded the image, the DC 
is not repainted. that is, the portion of the image which was invisible 
is not painted

Is there anyone with a bit of time to explain me how to solve these 
problems?

thanks, qrz

------------------ XRC ----------------------------

<?xml version="1.0" ?>
<resource>
   <object class="wxFrame" name="MAIN">
     <title>test</title>
     <object class="wxBoxSizer">
       <orient>wxHORIZONTAL</orient>
       <object class="sizeritem">
         <object class="wxPanel" name="IMAGE">
           <size>100,100</size>
         </object>
         <border>5</border>
       </object>
       <object class="sizeritem">
         <object class="wxPanel" name="CONTROLS">
           <size>100,100</size>
         </object>
         <border>5</border>
       </object>
     </object>
   </object>
   <object class="wxMenuBar" name="MENU">
     <object class="wxMenu" name="MENU_FILE">
       <label>File</label>
       <object class="wxMenuItem" name="MENU_FILE_OPEN">
         <label>Open</label>
       </object>
     </object>
   </object>
</resource>

---------------- PYTHON -----------------------------

from wxPython.wx import *
from wxPython.xrc import *
import Image

def pilToWx(pil):
     image = wxEmptyImage(pil.size[0], pil.size[1])
     image.SetData(pil.convert('RGB').tostring())
     return image

class MyApp(wxApp):

     def OnInit(self):
         self.res = wxXmlResource("test.xrc")
         self.InitFrame()
         self.InitMenu()
         self.InitEverythingElse()
         self.image = None
         return True

     def InitFrame(self):
         self.frame = self.res.LoadFrame(None, "MAIN")
         self.ipanel = XRCCTRL(self.frame, "IMAGE")
         EVT_PAINT(self.ipanel, self.OnPaint)
         self.cpanel = XRCCTRL(self.frame, "CONTROLS")

     def InitMenu(self):
         self.menuBar = self.res.LoadMenuBar("MENU")
         EVT_MENU(self.frame, XRCID("MENU_FILE_OPEN"), self.Open)
         self.frame.SetMenuBar(self.menuBar)

     def InitEverythingElse(self):
         self.sizer = self.frame.GetSizer()
         self.frame.SetAutoLayout(True)
         self.sizer.Fit(self.frame)
         self.sizer.SetSizeHints(self.frame)
         self.frame.Show(1)
         self.SetTopWindow(self.frame)

     def Open(self, evt):
         fd = wxFileDialog(self.frame, "Open image", "", "", \
                              "PNG image (*.png)|*.png|JPEG image 
(*.jpg)|*.jpg", \
                              wxOPEN)
         if fd.ShowModal() == wxID_OK:
            im = Image.open(fd.GetPath())
            self.image = pilToWx(im)
            self.ipanel.SetSize(im.size)
            self.ipanel.Refresh(True)
         fd.Destroy()

     def OnPaint(self, evt):
         if self.image:
             dc = wxPaintDC(self.ipanel)
             dc.DrawBitmap(self.image.ConvertToBitmap(), 0,0)

def main():
     app = MyApp(0)
     app.MainLoop()

if __name__ == '__main__':
     main()


From peter at engcorp.com  Wed Apr 14 12:19:38 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2004 12:19:38 -0400
Subject: [Win32] HEEEEEEELLLLPPPP! I need to determine the cluster size
 on WinXP/NT/2k
In-Reply-To: <f6554b84.0404140737.2fe6a6cf@posting.google.com>
References: <f6554b84.0404140737.2fe6a6cf@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <96Gdnd7GzawG-eDdRVn-gw@powergate.ca>

Sylwia wrote:

> So is there any API that gets the FAT32 cluster size correctly in
> WinNT/2k/XP?
> Does anyone know of an API function that can tell me how much space a
> file will occupy on the disk? It'll need to work with FAT, FAT32, and
> NTFS.

It appears you are quoting much of your information directly
from this page:

http://www.techweb.com/winmag/library/1998/0401/howto110.htm

The author appears to have reached the conclusion that there is
no workable solution for NT and friends...

-Peter


From michele.simionato at poste.it  Tue Apr  6 12:11:43 2004
From: michele.simionato at poste.it (Michele Simionato)
Date: 6 Apr 2004 09:11:43 -0700
Subject: [maybe OT] Making posters
References: <95aa1afa.0404030143.58c32975@posting.google.com>
	<tyfhdvyzway.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
	<95aa1afa.0404050650.2d39b1a5@posting.google.com>
	<84fzbhlfwt.fsf@tecont.de>
Message-ID: <95aa1afa.0404060811.5c50b685@posting.google.com>

Ralf Muschall <ralf at tecont.de> wrote in message news:<84fzbhlfwt.fsf at tecont.de>...
> michele.simionato at poste.it (Michele Simionato) writes:
> 
> > What I do not understand is if the "scale" operator automatically splits
> > the graph in many pages if it becomes too large. Anyway, I have found a way
> 
> It doesn't.  If you really want to do it this way, create many copies
> of the scaled file and shift the relevant part into the paper using
> translate.
> 
> The non-sucking method is to use the command poster(1) which comes
> with most linux distributions.
> 
> Ralf

Actually I do have "poster" installed and I didn't know!
Thanks for the tip, it may turn out useful in the future.

         Michele


From "Charles Krug" at cdksystems.com  Mon Apr 12 14:01:47 2004
From: "Charles Krug" at cdksystems.com (U-CDK_CHARLES\Charles)
Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2004 18:01:47 GMT
Subject: Starting a Python COM server from vb?
Message-ID: <fQAec.12308$d8.1258@nwrdny01.gnilink.net>

Pretty much what it says.

I've a number of Python services that I'd like to use from vb.  The
hitch is ensuring the services are started before the VB program tries
to use them.

Startup folder isn't a good solution, as folks sometimes putter with
their startup folder options.

Is it as simple as exec()-ing the service script?  That IS workable,
provided VB's exec() function plays nice and allows the service to run.

I WILL be testing everything I can think of, so there's no especial
urgency here . .yet.

Thanks


charles



From sholden at holdenweb.com  Thu Apr 29 05:20:37 2004
From: sholden at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Thu, 29 Apr 2004 05:20:37 -0400
Subject: How to add an attachment with smtplib module
In-Reply-To: <coUjc.920$ph.527@fed1read07>
References: <coUjc.920$ph.527@fed1read07>
Message-ID: <5M3kc.6584$f_5.3118@lakeread01>

Sean Berry wrote:

> I have the sample script that uses the smtplib module
> that is available at python.org.
> 
> How can I use this to send an attachment?
> 
> Help is greatly appreciated.
> 
> Thanks.
> 
Take a look at the "email" module, which is the usual way of generating 
messages of complex structure. Then, specifically, look at "Creating 
email and MIME objects from scratch" at (e.g.) 
http://docs.python.org/lib/node501.html - you'll probably have the same 
page in your local Python docs.

regards
  Steve


From marco at reimeika.ca  Tue Apr  6 17:23:32 2004
From: marco at reimeika.ca (marco)
Date: 06 Apr 2004 17:23:32 -0400
Subject: regex help for a newbie
References: <c4rkh6$2kr4f5$2@ID-165840.news.uni-berlin.de>
	<yibn05p4oi3.fsf@coxeter.math.toronto.edu>
	<c4v3jk$2nn12a$1@ID-165840.news.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <yibd66k94x7.fsf@coxeter.math.toronto.edu>

Marco Herrn <herrn at gmx.net> writes:

> On 2004-04-06, marco <marco at reimeika.ca> wrote:
> > Marco Herrn <herrn at gmx.net> writes:
> >> the parts in a recursive function. So the thing I want to achieve here
> >> is to extract %(BBB%(CCC)BBB) and %(DDD).
> >
> > p1, p2 = "aaa%(BBB%(CCC)BBB)aaa%(DDD)aaa".split("aaa")[1:-1]
> 
> Doesn't help, since I do not know that there is the string "aaa". It was
> just an example. I do not know any of the strings/characters. The only
> thing I know is that a percent sign indicates that the content inside
> the following parentheses is an expression that has to be evaluated.

Ah, that's clearer ;)

Does the "aaa"-type string really show up three times? Or is it actually:

"maybeeggs%(BBB%(CCC)BBB)maybeham%(DDD)maybespam"

If it's like you describe then maybe:

"aaa%(BBB%(CCC)BBB)aaa%(DDD)aaa".split("aaa%(BBB%(CCC)BBB)aaa%(DDD)aaa".split("%(")[0])[1:-1]

helps (but I doubt it -- I guess you'll need a real parser :)

Cheers,

--
marco at reimeika.ca
Gunnm: Broken Angel                      http://amv.reimeika.ca
http://reimeika.ca/                      http://photo.reimeika.ca


From mohammad_saaqib at yahoo.com  Thu Apr  1 04:51:47 2004
From: mohammad_saaqib at yahoo.com (Muhammad Saqib Masood)
Date: 1 Apr 2004 01:51:47 -0800
Subject: Running a program in the background
Message-ID: <75cb122b.0404010151.2c1ea088@posting.google.com>

How can i write a program the goes to the background after a certian
condition occure. this program should run both on Windows and Linux.

For example:

---------------------
if GoToBackground:
        gotoBG()
else:
        stayonFG()
---------------------
here tell me that what should i write in the body of gotoBG()
function.


From rschroev_nospam_ml at fastmail.fm  Thu Apr  1 09:25:08 2004
From: rschroev_nospam_ml at fastmail.fm (Roel Schroeven)
Date: Thu, 01 Apr 2004 14:25:08 GMT
Subject: test for nan
In-Reply-To: <mailman.231.1080826419.20120.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.138.1080679635.20120.python-list@python.org>	<c4gjfj$gt4$1@swifty.westend.com>	<m3fzbovu2v.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk>
	<mailman.231.1080826419.20120.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <8DVac.57505$f87.3604585@phobos.telenet-ops.be>

John Hunter wrote:
> Out of curiosity, are there any platforms where this is known to fail?
> 
>   def is_nan(x):
>       return str(x).lower().find('nan')>=0

Yes...

Python 2.3.3 (#51, Dec 18 2003, 20:22:39) [MSC v.1200 32 bit (Intel)] on 
win32

IDLE 1.0.2
 >>> def is_nan(x):
	return str(x).lower().find('nan') >= 0

 >>> inf=float('1e9999')
 >>> inf
1.#INF
 >>> nan=inf-inf
 >>> is_nan(nan)
False
 >>> nan
-1.#IND

-- 
"Codito ergo sum"
Roel Schroeven


From theller at python.net  Wed Apr  7 16:05:29 2004
From: theller at python.net (Thomas Heller)
Date: Wed, 07 Apr 2004 22:05:29 +0200
Subject: Obfuscator, EXE, etc. - a solution
References: <1jPcc.41986$oR5.1890@pd7tw3no>
Message-ID: <lll7imeu.fsf@python.net>

jason willows <apocalypznow at yahoo.com> writes:

> There have been many many many many discussions about obfuscating
> python.
distributed as py2exe'd package, iirc.

Even I was not happy that (up to py2exe 0.4) the context menu for a
py2exe'd exe-file contained winzip entries like those for any other zip
file.  Or when dragged the exe-file with the right mouse button,
intending to create a shortcut, the menu popping up had 'extract to
here' in addition to 'create shortcut' and 'copy'.

In py2exe 0.5 the zip-file is separate from the exe, so the exact issue
isn't any longer.  And, better yet, you can specify a different name
(and extension!) for the code archive - for exampled 'shared.dll'
instead of 'library.zip', and, at least the system does no longer
suggest to the innocent user to peek into this zipfile.

That's a very cheap 'obfuscation', but it helps a lot.  IMO.

Regarding your other solution, compiling the .py files with pyrex, at
least leaves the possibility to *use* the modules from a python
interpreter.  Only encryption, as Dave suggested, prevents that.  Unless
the encryption is reversed, of course ;-).

Thomas




From fumanchu at amor.org  Fri Apr  2 11:20:40 2004
From: fumanchu at amor.org (Robert Brewer)
Date: Fri, 2 Apr 2004 08:20:40 -0800
Subject: An attempt at guessing the encoding of a (non-unicode) string
Message-ID: <DE1CF2B4FEC4A342BF62B6B2B334601E561FA6@opus.amorhq.net>

Christos "TZOTZIOY" Georgiou wrote:
> 2. for every 8-bit encoding, some "representative" text is given (the
> longer, the better)
> 
> 2a. the following function is a quick generator of all two-char
> sequences from its string argument.  can be used both for the 
> production
> of the pre-calculated data and for the analysis of a given 
> string in the
> 'wild_guess' function.
> 
> def str_window(text):
>     return itertools.imap(
>         text.__getslice__, xrange(0, len(s)-1), xrange(2, len(s)+1)
>     )
> 
> So for every encoding and 'representative' text, a bag of two-char
> sequences and their frequencies is calculated. 
> {frequencies[encoding] =
> dict(key: two-chars, value: count)}
> 
> 2b. do a lengthy comparison of the bags in order to find the 
> most common
> two-char sequences that, as a set, can be considered unique for the
> specific encoding.
> 
> 2c. For every encoding, keep only a set of the (chosen in step 2b)
> two-char sequences that were judged as 'representative'.  Store these
> calculated sets plus those from step 1a as python code in a helper
> module to be imported from codecs.py for the wild_guess function
> (reproduce the helper module every time some 'representative' text is
> added or modified).

My only thought is that this sounds awfully like a Bayesian filter so
far... Maybe someone can tweak the SpamAssassin code? ;)


FuManChu



From plastic"no-spam-pls" at xsintrk.net  Thu Apr 15 18:01:14 2004
From: plastic"no-spam-pls" at xsintrk.net (jeff)
Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2004 22:01:14 GMT
Subject: newbie question
References: <Xns94CCA389D3DA0plasticnospamplsxsin@216.77.188.18>
	<c5mtsl$dns$2@absinth.dialog.net.pl>
	<Xns94CCA82D89C84plasticnospamplsxsin@216.77.188.18>
	<c5mvrg$fda$1@absinth.dialog.net.pl>
Message-ID: <Xns94CCAEBD1A18Eplasticnospamplsxsin@216.77.188.18>

Krzysztof Stachlewski <stach at fr.USUN.pl> wrote in
news:c5mvrg$fda$1 at absinth.dialog.net.pl: 

> First of all, you can't be sure that you will receive the text "kill"
> in one piece. It could happen that one recv() call will give only
> "ki" and the following recv() will return the rest of it.
> Moreover - try to print repr(sdata) and see what *exactly* is
> received.

i only want the socket to close if the word 'kill' has been sent.
i just tried 'if sdata == "kill\r\n": s.close()', kill\r\n was the string 
repr(sdata) returned.  the IF statement works, but i'm getting a 'bad file 
descriptor' error on the s.close().


From loic at fejoz.net  Fri Apr  2 02:00:59 2004
From: loic at fejoz.net (Yermat)
Date: Fri, 02 Apr 2004 09:00:59 +0200
Subject: __nonzero__ of iterators
In-Reply-To: <c4gjup$615$1@ttt14.vie.at.tttech.ttt>
References: <c4gjup$615$1@ttt14.vie.at.tttech.ttt>
Message-ID: <c4j33j$t7a$1@arcturus.ciril.fr>

Christian Eder wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> I just discovered the following pitfall in Python 2.3.
> Consider the following code :
> 
>  >>> a = {}
>  >>> bool (a.keys ())
> False
>  >>> bool (a.iterkeys ())
> True
> 
> So, an "empty" iterator evaluates to True in boolean context.
> At a first glance, this is not what one would expect. This causes 
> several problems, e.g. if you operate on something expected to be 
> sequence, and you guard your code with "if seq :" to avoid crashing into 
> an empty sequence, you still crash if you get an empty iterator, even if 
> the rest of your code is able to deal with an iterator as well as with 
> any other sequence type.
> 
> At a second glance, the behaviour is clear, since the iterator object 
> does not know wheter it is able to provide the next element, before 
> having done so.
> 
> Anyway, although I don't know how the iterator protocol is implemented 
> in Python 2.3, I suppose the __nonzero__ could be changed to check 
> whether a next element can be provided without actually consuming it.
> 
> I would like to read some comments on this topic as I'm sure that I'm 
> not the first one wondering whether the current behaviour should be that 
> way.
> 
> thanks
> chris
> 

In fact, what is missing is a 'hasNext' function...

But for your example, the behavior is quite clear.
bool(a.keys()) == bool([]) == False
Whereas:
bool(a.iterkeys()) = bool(anIterator) == (anIterator != None) == True

So what is really missing is a hasNext method on Iterator. It would also 
be usefull in some loop.

But what to do with Generator ?

Yermat



From bkelley at wi.mit.edu  Thu Apr  8 18:04:09 2004
From: bkelley at wi.mit.edu (Brian Kelley)
Date: Thu, 08 Apr 2004 18:04:09 -0400
Subject: OT: making queues in DB
In-Reply-To: <c54cjc$5fs$2@planja.arnes.si>
References: <c54cjc$5fs$2@planja.arnes.si>
Message-ID: <4075cc91$0$569$b45e6eb0@senator-bedfellow.mit.edu>

Mitja wrote:
> I have a games page, on which I would like to display a list of 10 last
> downloaded games. Therefore, I'd need a kind of queue in the database. What
> is the best way to go about this? Extending each game's entry with a
> "timelastdownloaded"-like column is of course an option, but I don't favor
> it too much.

Why not?  This seems to be the most reasonable solution, then your sql 
statement to the database would be something like:

SELECT * from gametable
ORDER BY timelastdownloaded DESC
limit 10

The order by is a descending order from the current date to the last 
date, and the limit 10 gets the last 10.

If you are worried about performance you can modify the select to return 
only the games downloaded from the last month or so.  Or if the table 
gets too large, just delete the earliest entries.

Brian






From __peter__ at web.de  Wed Apr 21 15:46:17 2004
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2004 21:46:17 +0200
Subject: inheritance and private attributes
References: <mailman.874.1082573632.20120.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <c66j29$uas$02$1@news.t-online.com>

KN wrote:

> 
> I've run into such problem:
> 
> I have something like this:
> 
> class A(object):
> def __init__(self):
> self.__value = None
> 
> class B(A):
> def test(self):
> if self.__value:

change the above to 
  if self._A__value:

> print "Ok."
> else:
> print "Empty."
> 
>>>> b = B()
>>>> b.test()
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
>   File "<stdin>", line 3, in test
> AttributeError: 'B' object has no attribute '_B__value'
> 
> Why I have no access to private attribute from a class that
> inherits other class? I just want to have access to the same
> private variables but also to extend its functionality by
> adding a method that operates on those private attributes and
> I'm unable to do so.
> 
> Is this normal behaviour? What should I do if I want to
> override method and use private attribute, or just add
> some other method which changes this attribute?

Python performs name mangling for attributes starting with two underscores.
This is meant to avoid accidental nameclashes of attributes that are rather
an implementation detail than of interest to subclasses and the wider
public. I like many others use attribute names with a *single* leading
underscore (i. e. no name mangling) to signal "this is may change without
prior notice" while omitting artificial hurdles. 
This is also known as treating programmers as adults :-)

Peter




From __peter__ at web.de  Tue Apr 20 04:15:28 2004
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 10:15:28 +0200
Subject: Dollar sign ($) on foriegn keyboards? (prothon)
References: <mk3hc.13895$dZ1.10823@fed1read04>
Message-ID: <c62m70$2hu$06$1@news.t-online.com>

Mark Hahn wrote:

> We are considering switching to the dollar sign ($) for self, instead of
> the
> period ( . ) we are using now in Prothon.  Ruby uses the at-sign (@) for
> self, but our new usage of self also includes replacing the period for
> some attribute references, as in obj$func() versus obj.func(), and too
> many
> programs treat that as an email address and screw it up.  Also the S in
> the symbol $ reminds one of the S in $elf.
> 
> Can people from outside the U.S. tell me if typing the dollar sign often
> would be a problem in writing code?  Is it available and somewhat easy to
> type on international keyboards?

In Germany every serious programmer has to switch to the American layout
anyway because of {}[]@\~| (all odd AltGr combinations). As this is no
problem on Windows and Linux(KDE) (how about the Mac?), I recommend against
making special character choices based on keyboard layout.

Apart from that obj$func() hurts my eye more than obj->func() and
obj!func(). As always, Python shines here with its obj.func() :-)

Peter


From hungjunglu at yahoo.com  Sun Apr 18 12:37:43 2004
From: hungjunglu at yahoo.com (Hung Jung Lu)
Date: 18 Apr 2004 09:37:43 -0700
Subject: module not callable - why not?
References: <c56jph$rrk$05$1@news.t-online.com>
	<107dras2heahcb6@news.supernews.com>
	<mailman.491.1081538569.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<8ef9bea6.0404122025.36efc84e@posting.google.com>
	<c5tef0$5hf$1@news.service.uci.edu>
	<7xsmf1fxd9.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <8ef9bea6.0404180837.4dbd4d9c@posting.google.com>

I forgot to mention one more inconsistency/redundancy:

(h) In module-level functions, you need to use the 'global' statement
to access module-level attributes. In class (instance) methods, you
use the 'self' parameter to access instance attributes. (In class'
classmethods, you use 'cls'.) (Notice that there is a big difference
between saying "class method" and "classmethod".)

regards,

Hung Jung


From jepler at unpythonic.net  Wed Apr  7 08:56:22 2004
From: jepler at unpythonic.net (Jeff Epler)
Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2004 07:56:22 -0500
Subject: min() with custom compare.
In-Reply-To: <20040407114407.0a07d143@pistache.sara.nl>
References: <20040407114407.0a07d143@pistache.sara.nl>
Message-ID: <20040407125622.GC6139@unpythonic.net>

Use DSU, as for sorts.  Turn each element i of the sequence into a tuple
(f(i), i), and find the min of that sequence.  Return element 1 of that
tuple, which is the original set element.


    def min_f(seq, f):
        decorated = [(f(i), i) for i in seq]
        return min(decorated)[1]

    def max_f(seq, f):
        decorated = [(f(i), i) for i in seq]
        return min(decorated)[1]

>>> l=[5,-4,1,9,-9]
>>> min(l)
-9
>>> min_f(l, abs)
1

You can make 'decorated' be a generator and avoid the need to hold the
whole list in memory:

    def decorated2(seq, f):
        for i in seq:
            yield f(i), i

    def min_f2(seq, f):
        return min(decorated(seq, f))[1]

    def max_f2(seq, f):
        return max(decorated(seq, f))[1]

If you want to break ties not by comparing the original items but by
comparing indices, you could do this:
    def decorated3(seq, f):
        for i, v in enumerate(seq):
            yield (f(v), i, v)

    def min_f3(seq, f):
        return min(decorated3(seq, f))[2]

Jeff



From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Sat Apr 10 10:09:41 2004
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 10 Apr 2004 10:09:41 -0400
Subject: Function args
References: <sdqdc.37060$zm5.15866@nntpserver.swip.net>
	<c55f5r$f2l$1@news-reader4.wanadoo.fr>
Message-ID: <c58v75$nq1$1@panix1.panix.com>

In article <c55f5r$f2l$1 at news-reader4.wanadoo.fr>,
Michel Claveau/Hamster <No.Spam.mc at No.Spam.mclaveau.No.Spam.com> wrote:
>
>PS : il existe aussi un newsgroup   fr.comp.lang.python

Yes, so please use English in comp.lang.python, particularly when the
original poster starts with English.
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

Why is this newsgroup different from all other newsgroups?


From stephendotboulet at motorola_._com  Fri Apr 16 16:32:40 2004
From: stephendotboulet at motorola_._com (Stephen Boulet)
Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2004 15:32:40 -0500
Subject: Error copying a file
In-Reply-To: <OPydnXBP97gWrx3dRVn-hw@powergate.ca>
References: <c5ka45$c8v$1@newshost.mot.com>
	<c5mbfv$qc4$1@absinth.dialog.net.pl>
	<c5p9ph$7h9$1@newshost.mot.com>
	<OPydnXBP97gWrx3dRVn-hw@powergate.ca>
Message-ID: <c5pg0u$9r5$1@newshost.mot.com>

Peter Hansen wrote:

> Okay, any reason not to call this a bug in the Windows version of
> Python, when os.path.isfile can handle the name but Python can't
> open or copy the file?

Good question.

> (Stephen, I think therein lies your solution for now though, which
> is to find the 8.3 format name with, say, "DIR /x" or maybe
> win32api.GetShortPathName (if that even works) and copy it that
> way.)
> 
> -Peter

I can list the file at the DOS prompt:

"dir /x" gives me "01SYMP~2.OGG" as the short file name, "dir 
01SYMP~2.OGG" does echo back the file name, but "copy 01SYMP~2.OGG" 
gives me a "The system cannot find the file specified" error.

Oh well, I'll just redo it with a different file name.

I did burn the CD under linux, with k3b as a front end to cdrecord, 
using joliet extensions with 128 character file names enabled.

Stephen


From lbates at swamisoft.com  Tue Apr 13 10:19:57 2004
From: lbates at swamisoft.com (Larry Bates)
Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2004 09:19:57 -0500
Subject: getting as global as __builtin__
References: <c5euuf$sg$1@planja.arnes.si>
Message-ID: <TaWdnV7RM_eQaubd4p2dnA@comcast.com>

Create a class to hold all your variables as attributes
(which probably means changing common.py to a class) and
pass this class to each of your sub-modules as an argument.

Something like:

class common:
    def __init__(self):
        #
        # Insert anything that gets created at runtime
        # here.  These would be constants, lists, dictionaries,
        # or other data items that will be common to all your
        # functions.
        #
        self.rtvariable1="abc"
        self.rtvariable2=[]
        return

subfunction1(COMMON, arg1):
    #
    # These might be imported if you like
    #
    COMMON.rtvariable2.extend([2,3,4])
    .
    .
    .
    return


subfunction2(COMMON, arg1, arg2):
    COMMON.rtvariable1="xyz"
    .
    .
    .
    return


#
# Main program
#
from common import common
COMMON=common()
COMMON.rtvariable2.append(1)
.
.
.
#
# Call subfunction1
#
subfunction1(COMMON, arg1, arg2)
#
# Call subfunction2
subfunction2(COMMON, arg1)

I think you get the picture.

Larry Bates
Syscon, Inc.


"Mitja" <tezt at email.si> wrote in message news:c5euuf$sg$1 at planja.arnes.si...
> How to make a variable visible from __main__ as well as all other imported
> modules? I.e., how to make it share the scope with __builtin__? Saying
> __builtin__.foo='bar' works, but seems messy - foo is far from a built-in
> thingy.
>
> Background:
> ---------------------
> I'm writing a web application with a central module and a few peripheral
> ones, which provide the content of the web page to the main module. The
only
> script ever called is main.py, which then makes use of others via import.
>
> All of these modules have to have access to some variables (e.g. HTTP GET
> parameters), which are all gathered in a module common.py. Therefore, all
> modules "import common".
>
> Thing is, some of these variables are a result of database queries, so the
> can take some time to get. I would like to have them computed only once
(at
> a specific function call) and then keep them somewhere where they are
> visible to all the modules throughout the execution of the program. This
> way, we come to the problem from the first paragraph
> -------------------
>
> Are there better ways of doing it than __builtin__? Or is the entire
> approach wrong? Thanks for answers/suggestions,
>
> Mitja
>
>




From mark at prothon.org  Fri Apr  2 23:40:13 2004
From: mark at prothon.org (Mark Hahn)
Date: Fri, 2 Apr 2004 20:40:13 -0800
Subject: Indent testers needed (Prothon)
References: <Unqbc.131025$cx5.57643@fed1read04>
	<noOdnTqctOE3pPPdRVn-tw@powergate.ca>
Message-ID: <Oerbc.133153$cx5.81711@fed1read04>

"Peter Hansen" <peter at engcorp.com> wrote ...
> I heard a rumour Python is heading for "no tabs", period. Why not just
> simplify everyone's life and do the same for Prothon, and leave the
> whole darned issue in the past.

I first said tabs-only since I'm a tabs lover and the tabs-haters came out
and crucified me. Because of that and the fact that I found out that Guido
wants to pull tabs from Python, I said we were going to spaces-only and then
the space-haters did the same. I don't think Guido has a chance in hell of
ever pulling tab support from Python.

> In a year no one will be complaining
> about their beloved tabs anyway...

Yeah right (giant laugh).




From jacek.generowicz at cern.ch  Thu Apr  1 04:09:11 2004
From: jacek.generowicz at cern.ch (Jacek Generowicz)
Date: 01 Apr 2004 11:09:11 +0200
Subject: [OT] Top posting is a PITA
References: <569c605ld1cj8fc1emolk08ete0s1prls1@4ax.com>
	<v0r9c.38988$cx5.22021@fed1read04>
	<106di86neu1qh4d@news.supernews.com>
	<AHF9c.49048$cx5.33872@fed1read04> <c4akqh$gml$1@panix2.panix.com>
	<Sz8ac.68272$cx5.62681@fed1read04>
	<mailman.115.1080652873.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<4069a001$0$4237$afc38c87@news.easynet.co.uk>
	<4069e9d9$0$8915$636a15ce@news.free.fr>
	<406a98ee$0$290$edfadb0f@dread12.news.tele.dk>
	<c4e6jv$10te$1@biggoron.nerim.net>
	<868yhhhv1u.fsf@igor.home.mkp.ca>
	<mailman.202.1080775541.20120.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <tyfisgk12vc.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>

Michael <mogmios at mlug.missouri.edu> writes:

> I follow more than 300 mailing lists on a regular basis (I get around
> 3 gigs of mail a day just from these lists)

Given the time this must leave you to read, understand, and
thoughtfully reply to any given article ... I'll let you draw your own
conclusions about what effect this might have on the quality of your
contributions.

> and I much prefer people that top-post.

... yup, if you are really not interested in _understanding_ what is
going on, then top-posting is for you.

> Of course the only people I really hate are those that quote text
> without quoting it.. so it's all on the same level and you can't tell
> what they wrote from what others have written.

They should be tortured without remorse.


From richardshea at fastmail.fm  Fri Apr 30 02:48:36 2004
From: richardshea at fastmail.fm (Richard Shea)
Date: 29 Apr 2004 23:48:36 -0700
Subject: urllib2/cookies - surely there's a better way ?
Message-ID: <282f826a.0404292248.7b71c7d6@posting.google.com>

Hi - I'm writing a script which fetches a page from a web server and
takes note of any set-cookies which are served in the headers so that
when I next request a page I can send those cookies back to the
server. This is so that the usage analysis software on the server
(based on cookies) will take account of the scripts activities.

Now the thing is I'm halfway through doing this but I'm thinking there
must be a more refined mechanism than the one I'm using (see below).

I'm not really asking if there's a way to smarten up the rather clunky
splits (although if necessary that would be welcome) I'm more asking
is there not a more refined interface to the whole area of cookies.

Strangely enought the doco says that f.info() "return the
meta-information of the page, as a dictionary-like object" - well as
far as I can see it's a string and the f.info().headers is a list. I
don't usually find errors in the doco so this makes me wonder if
there's something I'm doing fundamentally wrong ?

Anyway any ideas would be welcome. Here goes with the work in progress
...
 

import urllib2
from string import split
from string import upper


req_headers = {
        'User-Agent': 'Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 5.5; Windows
NT)',
        'Referer':''
}

TARGETURL = 'http://www.somedomain.com/a/b/'

req = urllib2.Request(TARGETURL, None, req_headers)
f = urllib2.urlopen(req)
lstHeaders=f.info().headers

for h in lstHeaders:

        lstHeaderContents = split(h,":",1)
        if upper(lstHeaderContents[0]) == "SET-COOKIE":
                print lstHeaderContents[1]
                #get the keyword value pair to the left of the first
';'
                lstYetAnother = split(lstHeaderContents[1],";",1)
                #put the keyword value pair into a list
                lstOneMore = split(lstYetAnother[0],"=",1)
                print "Keyword=" + lstOneMore[0] + ". Value = " +
lstOneMore[1] + "."



That's the script - thanks for readind this far.

regards

richard.


From graham__fawcett at hotmail.com  Thu Apr 15 00:19:14 2004
From: graham__fawcett at hotmail.com (Graham Fawcett)
Date: 14 Apr 2004 21:19:14 -0700
Subject: Does Python compete with Java?
References: <8b336527.0404051337.51bb4a1b@posting.google.com>	<c4taac$2lg0bc$1@ID-169208.news.uni-berlin.de>	<e838aa6e.0404071426.7192e8e4@posting.google.com>	<slrnc79idf.hij.ramen@lackingtalent.com>	<e838aa6e.0404130748.1d8e1ddf@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.585.1081876373.20120.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <e9570f37.0404142019.1ebe6164@posting.google.com>

Jakub Fast <kfast at poczta.onet.pl> wrote in message news:<mailman.585.1081876373.20120.python-list at python.org>...
> I've been pondering using python+NLTK to teach a computational semantics 
> class this summer (precisely because i think the basics of python would 
> be easy for the students to learn quickly, and, class aside, that 
> learning them actually might turn out useful for whatever they want to 
> do in the future -- more useful than, say, prolog) and nothing can beat 
> the intuitive appeal of
> 
> S ==> (NP and VP) or VP
> 
> over CFGProduction(S, NP, VP), CFGProduction(S, VP) for specifying your 
> simple cfg, dcg or ebnf rules if you're completely new to programming 
> and have just been given a programming assignment :)

Using a domain-oriented mini-language (parsed from within Python) is a
simple way to "extend" Python syntax.

An new instance of a DgcGrammar class, for example, could represent a
new, empty grammar; it could have an eval() method which could parse a
string of DGC rules to be added to itself: e.g.,

   g = DcgGrammar()
   g.eval('s --> np,vp. np --> det,n. ...').

Perhaps not what you had in mind; but personally, I think the
separation of syntaxes enforced by the method call is a a benefit. You
get Prolog (kind of) and Python both, without having to force one to
imitate the other.

There are Python tools for generating parsers from EBNF grammars, for
example, which could be used to whip up a domain-language parser in a
jiffy.

And, of course, your students get the added benefit of having the
parser's source code available -- for reuse, Python instruction and
light bedtime reading!

(On another note, I seem to recall there's a Prolog implementation in
Python somehwere; perhaps there's some reusable DGC-related code
there.)

Just two cents,

-- Graham


From rlratzel at siliconmetrics.com  Sat Apr  3 15:10:36 2004
From: rlratzel at siliconmetrics.com (Rick Ratzel)
Date: 3 Apr 2004 12:10:36 -0800
Subject: Pyrex gets a perfect score.
References: <lhntj1-u62.ln1@snout.lairds.org>
	<905fcd91.0404011433.6681abd9@posting.google.com>
	<qrruj1-n75.ln1@snout.lairds.org>
Message-ID: <905fcd91.0404031210.7c1878fc@posting.google.com>

Kyler Laird <Kyler at news.Lairds.org> wrote in message news:<qrruj1-n75.ln1 at snout.lairds.org>...

> The description "Elmer is not a Python-to-C or Python-to-Tcl
> translator" makes me think that it's not appropriate for what I need
> right now - the ability to submit only C code.

   Thats a good point.  In that case, you would use the "-frozen" flag
for Elmer, which uses freeze.py (if available on your system) to
freeze the Python sources into C strings, which are compiled into your
executable/archive.  I emphasized that it is not a translator since
the Python interpreter is still required in all cases.  While the
Elmer-generated C code is readable, the C files consisting of strings
of Python op codes that freeze generates are not...so that may be a
problem if you have to deliver readable code.  I've never had that
problem since I only deliver .a files.

   I once delivered a Python module to a C user (who has no working
knowledge of Python...a similar sounding situation to what you had, I
think) by using "Elmer -frozen" and combining the frozen C code,
Elmer-generated C code, and Python library all into a single archive. 
They simply #included the generated header and linked in the archive
and were off and running...they didn't know they were using Python
until I told them...well, they may have been clued in by the fact that
I could deliver a platform-independent and easy-to-maintain module in
record time ;)

> It does look like it would be useful for later work though.  I think
> it's likely to provide cleaner interfaces than what I was able to
> generate using Pyrex.

   The idea was that a Python developer could share their code with
C/C++ and Tcl users with minimal effort.  The API to their Python
module in C or Tcl resembles, as close as possible, the same API they
use in Python.  Please let me know if you do decide to use it in a
future project as I would love the feedback.  Thanks!


From amk at amk.ca  Thu Apr 15 14:29:06 2004
From: amk at amk.ca (A.M. Kuchling)
Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2004 13:29:06 -0500
Subject: curses and unicode
References: <mailman.641.1082011774.20120.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <oI2dnatHA9DvSePdRVn-uQ@speakeasy.net>

On Thu, 15 Apr 2004 08:46:55 +0200, 
	Gandalf <gandalf at geochemsource.com> wrote:
> But I do not know how to do this from Python. I only have the curses 
> module and the addstr method. The addstr method does not support unicode.

There's a separate set of interfaces for wide-character curses support, with
functions such as addwstr().  Unfortunately the Python curses module doesn't
support these functions, and they may or may not be available on your
platform.  (For example, they don't seem to be available in the version of
ncurses in Debian unstable.)

--amk


From rob at nospam.net  Fri Apr 16 06:38:16 2004
From: rob at nospam.net (Robert Ferber)
Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2004 12:38:16 +0200
Subject: (For gurus) Embed functions in webpages like in PHP?
Message-ID: <5eq4l1-9vm.ln1@pilz.hasos.com>

Hi,

I'm  a PHP-programmer who evaluates Python for a new project.
I really like a lot of concepts of Python, especially the shell, but there
is one great feature of PHP which I don't know how to replace in Python:

For database-intensive webpages, I like to cache the HTML-output on the fly
in the filesystem and put out the file later whenever the same URL is
requested again, for example:

/cache/some_url:
<html>
important database result that took 20 minutes to generate
</html>

and:
/www/master_script.php:
<?
if (is_file("/cache/$URL")) include("/cache/$URL");
else include("/scripts/soo_long_and_complicated.php");
?>

So far so good, shouldn't be too much of problem to do something similar in
Python.

However, it's sometimes necessary to still access the database, for example
to rotate banners, show user-specified style-sheets, change output
depending on the used browser, etc.
In PHP it's trivial to do this, instead of caching the output of a function,
I just cache "<? function(); ?>", so the example looks like this:

<html>
<? echo random_banner(); ?>
important database result that took 20 minutes to generate
</html>

I've used this technique for about a year now and it works great for
semi-static pages (which are manually changed) or some not too fast
changing dynamic pages, in some cases I reduced the database-load to 20%.
The beauty of it is that I can use the same "random_banner_()" function for
the cache and on the fly.

As far as I've seen, there is no way to embed Python-code in a webpage with
"<? ?>" or anything equivalent and I don't see any other way to solve this
problem.

But maybe somebody else does, I'd apreceate all ideas,

Thanks a lot

-- 
"I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it" 
 - Calvin



From Scott.Daniels at Acm.Org  Wed Apr 28 11:39:40 2004
From: Scott.Daniels at Acm.Org (Scott David Daniels)
Date: Wed, 28 Apr 2004 08:39:40 -0700
Subject: dynamically naming fields?
In-Reply-To: <MPG.1af98d228ff29f01989680@newsstand.cit.cornell.edu>
References: <MPG.1af98d228ff29f01989680@newsstand.cit.cornell.edu>
Message-ID: <408fd62b$1@nntp0.pdx.net>

Darren Dale wrote:

> I want to load data from a file, and I want to use the header to name my 
> fields... for example, I have a file containing "time counter" in the 
> header, how do I create Sample.time and Sample.counter? In Matlab it 
> would be Sample.(string)
> 
> thanks,
> Darren

setattr(anobject, name, value) sets the name field to value.
getattr(anobject, name) retrieves that value.


I find the following class useful for interactive work:

class Data(object):
     def __init__(self, **kwargs):
         self.__dict__.update(kwargs)
     def __repr__(self):
         return '%s(%s)' % (self.__class__.__name__, ', '.join(
             ['%s=%r' % keyval for keyval in self.__dict__.items()]))

# This class allows me to see data in the object.  Either printing
# the object or viewing it as a value with idle or the interactive
# interpreter will now display data added to the object.

sample = Data(version=1)  # illustrating fields built at creation

setattr(sample, 'time', [1,3,5])
setattr(sample, 'counter', [12,55,93])

print sample  # illustrate the __repr__ magic to see the data


-- 
-Scott David Daniels
Scott.Daniels at Acm.Org


From jan.dries at dcube-resource.be  Thu Apr 15 16:31:53 2004
From: jan.dries at dcube-resource.be (Jan Dries)
Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2004 22:31:53 +0200
Subject: CamelCase versus wide_names (Prothon)
In-Reply-To: <b9Afc.9345$dZ1.7703@fed1read04>
References: <UHxfc.9323$dZ1.3740@fed1read04>	<407ec022$0$54153$1b2cd167@news.wanadoo.nl>	<roy-C4FD90.13444715042004@reader2.panix.com>
	<b9Afc.9345$dZ1.7703@fed1read04>
Message-ID: <407EF139.3030105@dcube-resource.be>

Mark Hahn wrote:
> 
> Then I came here and asked and to my surprise I'm finding out that 100% of
> python users want camelCase.  This kind of blows away my argument against
> it.  So camelCase it will be.

In all fairness, you are finding out that 6 of the 8 first people to 
respond to your post prefer CamelCase. The other two didn't voice a 
clear opinion in either direction. While I'm sure that might be 
indicative of some trend, it certainly does not mean 100% of Python 
users want camelCase.

I for one go with AM Kuchling, and prefer wide_names.

When I started programming, I was using C (this was back in the 80's and 
early 90's) and I used to code all in wide_names. I was quite happy with 
it. Then I started writing C++ on Windows, and I gradually started using 
CamelCase and lpszqvwxHungarianNotation, primarily because MFC was using 
it. When Java came out, I followed its camelCase practice as well.
But it wasn't until I moved to Python in 2000 that I realised how much I 
really prefer wide_names. Contrary to what others have written here, I 
find wide_names much more readable than camelCase.

In practice though, I tend to go for whatever convention is customary in 
the environment I work in. And I have long given up the illusion you can 
be 100% consistent in these matters. That's why I rarely get involved in 
discussions like these. But when someone claims 100% of Python users 
want camelCase, I cannot but speak up.

Regards,
Jan







From yazzoo at null.net  Fri Apr 16 13:20:23 2004
From: yazzoo at null.net (yazzoo)
Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2004 17:20:23 GMT
Subject: Cannot import cgi.py -- scripts broken
Message-ID: <rBUfc.32639$aD.32463@edtnps89>

I've been banging my head over a long running script that has suddenly 
stopped working when my ISP upgraded Apache and Suexec.  They didn't 
specify what they did, but I presume it was the latest updates.

My problem is that any script that tries to import cgi.py breaks.

For example, the following script:

	#!/usr/bin/python
	print """Content-type: text/html\n\n"""
	import cgi, sys, string, os
	print """<html>hi</html>"""

fails with the following message in apache's error log.

Traceback (innermost last):
   File "hello.py.cgi", line 3, in ?
     import cgi, sys, string, os
   File "/usr/lib/python1.5/cgi.py", line 422, in ?
     import urllib
   File "/usr/lib/python1.5/urllib.py", line 25, in ?
     import socket
ImportError: libssl.so.2: cannot open shared object file: No such file 
or directory


My ISP's tech support confirms that the file is still available on the 
server in the directory /usr/local/ssl/lib/libssl.so

any clue's?

Thanks in advance,
Lester


From arosado at softhome.net  Tue Apr  6 14:56:21 2004
From: arosado at softhome.net (Andres Rosado-Sepulveda)
Date: Tue, 06 Apr 2004 13:56:21 -0500
Subject: unpack tuple of wrong size
In-Reply-To: <c7r57095assq7p777q2ugudnh72qud8kgb@4ax.com>
References: <c7r57095assq7p777q2ugudnh72qud8kgb@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <c4uqtq$2ltdvr$1@ID-203388.news.uni-berlin.de>

Tung Wai Yip wrote:

> I want to do 
> 
> t = (1,2)
> a,b = t  # get a=1 and b=2
> 
> However when
> t = (1,)
> a,b=t
> 
> I got a "ValueError: unpack tuple of wrong size"
> 
> What I want is for a=1 and b=None. Is there a good way to do this?

t = (1,None)
a,b = t

(1,) means that the tuple has only one element. Remember that tuples are 
defined by the comma, except on those cases where it would be unclear 
what the intention is.

-- 
Andres Rosado
Email: andresr at despammed.com
Homepage: http://andres980.tripod.com/

"Well, well. Look-who's-BACK!"
         -- Megatron


From me at privacy.net  Fri Apr  9 04:42:02 2004
From: me at privacy.net (Duncan Booth)
Date: 9 Apr 2004 08:42:02 GMT
Subject: Pyrex list is down
References: <074gk1-8u1.ln1@snout.lairds.org>
	<mailman.475.1081471810.20120.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <Xns94C66204629C8duncanrcpcouk@127.0.0.1>

"Terry Reedy" <tjreedy at udel.edu> wrote in
news:mailman.475.1081471810.20120.python-list at python.org: 

> 
>> Duncan Booth <me at privacy.net> writes:
>>
>> >> I hate mailing lists anyway.  I'd much rather use Usenet.
> 
> Give your newsreader an account for news.gmane.org and subscribe to
> gmane.comp.python.pyrex.  There are news-gated versions of about 50
> python related mailing lists.
> 
> TJR
> 
Please be more careful with you attributions. I quoted that, but I didn't 
write it.


From fpetermaas at netscape.net  Thu Apr  1 05:27:17 2004
From: fpetermaas at netscape.net (Peter Maas)
Date: Thu, 01 Apr 2004 12:27:17 +0200
Subject: test for nan
In-Reply-To: <c4gp0s$av1$07$1@news.t-online.com>
References: <mailman.138.1080679635.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<c4gjfj$gt4$1@swifty.westend.com>
	<c4gp0s$av1$07$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <c4gqnb$oaf$1@swifty.westend.com>

Peter Otten wrote:
>>def isNaN(x):
>>     return (x == x) == False
> 
> 
> That is not portable:
> 
> Python 2.3.3 (#1, Jan  3 2004, 13:57:08)
> [GCC 3.2] on linux2
> Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
> 
>>>>nan = float("nan")
>>>>nan != nan
> 
> False

Thanks for correction. I firmly believed that NaN != NaN -> True
was a property of IEEE 754 and of all software using this standard.
For gcc/Linux you could use

def isNaN(x):
     return (x == 0) and (x == 1)

and utilize sys.platform. :)

Mit freundlichen Gruessen,

Peter Maas

-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Peter Maas, M+R Infosysteme, D-52070 Aachen, Hubert-Wienen-Str. 24
Tel +49-241-93878-0 Fax +49-241-93878-20 eMail peter.maas at mplusr.de
-------------------------------------------------------------------


From junkmail at solumslekt.org  Fri Apr  2 07:30:43 2004
From: junkmail at solumslekt.org (Leif B. Kristensen)
Date: Fri, 02 Apr 2004 14:30:43 +0200
Subject: PyQt database example
References: <hAw7c.2215$zf6.29943@news4.e.nsc.no>
	<vneu50p2daafuhi208tap5ulf33jb7ipmj@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <L%cbc.4544$zf6.61224@news4.e.nsc.no>

David MacQuigg wrote:

> I don't know if this will help you, but here is a snip from one of my
> classes where I am processing a list of text lines and displaying
> those lines in a QTextEdit widget.  The fields in each line are padded
> to make everything come out in nice columns.

David,
thanks for your suggestion, but I've been completely stalled in my
efforts to learn PyQt due to the arcane documentation. For now I'm
doing some progress with Tkinter, as there are so many docs, resources
and tutorials on the web that even a clod like me can make some sense
of it. 

I found a great multi-column listbox in Tkinter here:

<url:http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Cookbook/Python/Recipe/52266>

regards,
-- 
Leif Biberg Kristensen
http://solumslekt.org/
Validare necesse est


From news at grauer-online.de  Sat Apr 10 09:57:36 2004
From: news at grauer-online.de (Uwe Grauer)
Date: Sat, 10 Apr 2004 15:57:36 +0200
Subject: Is boa-constructor dead?
In-Reply-To: <4077fa35$0$93590$cd19a363@news.wanadoo.nl>
References: <d3c9c04.0404100442.2c1248a3@posting.google.com>
	<4077fa35$0$93590$cd19a363@news.wanadoo.nl>
Message-ID: <c58ugd$qar$1@online.de>

Andrei wrote:
> Mark Carter wrote on Saturday 10 April 2004 14:42:
> 
> 
>>I noticed that boa-constructor has been stuck at 0.2.3 for a long time
>>now. Is it dead?
> 
> 
> Nope, it just doesn't release very often on the front page, where one would
> normally expect releases to appear :). There is activity on CVS. There is
> also a - not very well publicized - 0.2.8 zip/tarball somewhere in the
> forums if I'm not mistaken. I just can't find it right now.
> 

Here is a Message from Rijan from 15.12.03:
Riaan Booysen wrote:

 > Hi everyone,
 >
 > 0.2.8 is available from CVS.
 >
 > Changes:
 > * Improved EOL handling
 >   * Converting (Edit->Convert...)
 >   * Mode switching (Edit->STC settings...)
 >   * Warning when mixed EOLs are detected
 > * Added application todo view
 >   * On app module, Views->Application todos
 >   * Gives navigatible app wide todo list
 > * Much improved support for maskededit family of controls
 > * Added page about Sizers to the application help
 >   * It's not linked to yet, but can be opened in a browser,
 >     at Docs/boa/apphelp/Sizers.html
 > * Many bug fixes
 >   * Fixed process freezing if printing > 4k text
 >   * Sizer, Designer and Editor bugs
 >   * BicycleRepairMan plug-in bugs
 >
 > Updated versions of the maskededit controls needed by Boa can be
 > found here:
 > http://boa-constructor.sourceforge.net/files/maskededitctrls-0.2.8.zip
 > Replace the ones in wxPython/lib/*
 >
 > A checkout of the 0.2.8 tree can be found here:
 > 
http://boa-constructor.sourceforge.net/files/boa-constructor-0.2.8-snapshot.tgz
 >
 > Enjoy,
 > Riaan.
 >

Hope this helps,
	Uwe



From jacek.generowicz at cern.ch  Tue Apr 27 03:49:17 2004
From: jacek.generowicz at cern.ch (Jacek Generowicz)
Date: 27 Apr 2004 09:49:17 +0200
Subject: Magic methods in extension types
References: <tyfisfnt2zd.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
	<m3isfnm1bg.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk>
	<tyfekqbt02c.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
	<m3ekqanceo.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk>
	<tyfad0yu6ma.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
	<c6kp64$cjma4$1@ID-169208.news.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <tyfzn8xsvwi.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>

Greg Ewing <greg at cosc.canterbury.ac.nz> writes:

> <plug shamelevel="0">
> 
> Unless you use Pyrex, of course:
> 
> http://www.cosc.canterbury.ac.nz/~greg/python/Pyrex/
> 
> </plug>

Hi Greg,

I've been wanting to pounce on Pyrex for ages. Unfortunately, it is
not politically correct for my current projects. I have vague hopes of
finding the time become sufficiently versed in Pyrex to be able to
make a convincing case for making it standard practice around here,
but, unfortunately, that time seems not to be getting any closer :-(


From peter at engcorp.com  Fri Apr 16 15:06:07 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2004 15:06:07 -0400
Subject: Best IDE?
In-Reply-To: <ce6080lqkp4t6d8i6vu7hq91k5didmgkck@4ax.com>
References: <c5bg1k$25vq$1@news.wplus.net>	<4ace7f9f.0404111147.3120288a@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.543.1081755983.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<Z2Wec.22209$8V.18569@newssvr27.news.prodigy.com>
	<ad2a0ff0939b8226ed28f707af136431@news.teranews.com>
	<ce6080lqkp4t6d8i6vu7hq91k5didmgkck@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <VcGdnVVRwdwCsx3d4p2dnA@powergate.ca>

Chuck Spears wrote:
>>CodeWright, now available from Borland.  AFAIK, it's feature
>>compatible with Visual SlickEdit, though I think it's available 
>>only on multiple Windows platforms.  ;-)
>>   --dang
> 
> Borland is killing off this project.

Thanks for the tip.  References are always nice though, so for
the record:

http://discuss.fogcreek.com/joelonsoftware/default.asp?cmd=show&ixPost=131490

I can't find anything official (from Borland) about this, but the
above note was posted on April 10, not April 1, and says Borland
emailed an announcement to customers, so it seems likely to be true. ;-)

-Peter


From michal at genesilico.pl  Sat Apr  3 12:18:04 2004
From: michal at genesilico.pl (Michal Kurowski)
Date: Sat, 3 Apr 2004 19:18:04 +0200
Subject: Weird Python 2.3 subclassing thing with _mysql and MySQLdb
In-Reply-To: <406EEE33.9050901@simplistix.co.uk>
References: <406E9DE4.2000604@simplistix.co.uk>
	<406EDE94.9000701@simplistix.co.uk>
	<406EEE33.9050901@simplistix.co.uk>
Message-ID: <20040403171804.GA32655@calvados>

Chris Withers [chris at simplistix.co.uk] wrote:
> 
> ...define kwargs...
> 
> >>> c = _mysql.connection(**kwargs)
> >>> c
> <_mysql.connection open to 'localhost' at 7b8858>
> >>> c.server_capabilities
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
> AttributeError: server_capabilities
> 
> ...hmmm, okay, so no server_capabilties attribute...
> 
> >>> class test(_mysql.connection): pass
> ...
> >>> c = test(**kwargs)
> >>> c
> <_mysql.connection open to 'localhost' at 82c2a0>
> >>> c.server_capabilities
> 8236
> 
> ...BWAGGGHH?!

... exactly ;-)

Changing:

transactional = self.db.server_capabilities & CLIENT.TRANSACTIONS

to:

transactional =  CLIENT.TRANSACTIONS 

db.py file from ZmySQLDA is requirement for python 2.3.3 based 
zope to work.

Can anyone explain to me why "_mysql" (instead of "MySQLdb") is used
here in the first place ?

Andy Dustman recommends against it for years now.
 
-- 
Michal Kurowski
perl -e '$_=q#: 13_2: 12/o{>: 8_4) (_4: 6/2^-2; 3;-2^\2: 5/7\_/\7: 12m m::#;
y#:#\n#;s#(\D)(\d+)#$1x$2#ge;print'




From peter at engcorp.com  Fri Apr  2 13:09:42 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Fri, 02 Apr 2004 13:09:42 -0500
Subject: Making the Zen of Python more useful
In-Reply-To: <c4k9b6$1un$1@news-int2.gatech.edu>
References: <106qp0uivlefo40@corp.supernews.com>
	<BPWdnVtfl7ma5PDdRVn-sw@powergate.ca>
	<c4jvc3$b0b$1@news-int.gatech.edu>
	<-5ydnTEmxfuZHvDdRVn-iQ@powergate.ca>
	<c4k1hb$cdg$1@news-int.gatech.edu>
	<abqdneFj-dP8APDd4p2dnA@powergate.ca>
	<c4k9b6$1un$1@news-int2.gatech.edu>
Message-ID: <GqqdnTyLBpT7MfDdRVn-jg@powergate.ca>

Andrew Henshaw wrote:

> I'm sure that is true.  Unfortunately, I can't write a patch since I can't 
> think of a way to provide both functions; except, by wrapping in another 
> module - which I mentioned in my original post and was repeated by Joe Mason.  
> It's not a big deal, obviously.  It would just be nice if there was a way to 
> do both using the one module.

Maybe (in the spirit of a couple of days ago) what is needed is
*adverbial* keywords.  Then you could do:

   import this quietly

One could expand on that idea as well, such as to satisfy those who
are overly obsessed with performance issues:

   import wxPython rapidly

or those with intermittent problems in their own code:

   import flakymodule reliably

-Peter


From simoninusa2001 at yahoo.co.uk  Sun Apr  4 21:25:36 2004
From: simoninusa2001 at yahoo.co.uk (simo)
Date: 4 Apr 2004 18:25:36 -0700
Subject: Module import problems
Message-ID: <30260531.0404041725.746befa0@posting.google.com>

I've written a pretty big wxPython script, and I thought I'd split the
source into a few files.

I'm going to have a main.py file which includes global defs, wxApp
initialisation code, mainWindow() etc. and then each file will include
a GUI class (which just happen to be a wxNotebook tab each).

I'm having trouble accessing the imported classes though.

For example I have login.py which contains something like this:

class login(wx.Dialog):
    """create a login dialog box"""
    def __init__(self):
        wx.Dialog.__init__(self, None, -1, "Login")

        # create grid sizer     
        self.grid_sizer = wx.GridSizer(3, 2, 2, 2)

Then main.py contains something like this:

import login

class MyApp(wx.App):
    """define main wx app class"""
    def OnInit(self):
        login_frame = login()
        login_frame.Show(1)
        return True

# call the main class
app = MyApp(0)
app.MainLoop()

The problem is, that when I run main.py, I cannot seem to import login
as a class - I keep getting 'module' object not callable.

I tried login.login() to not call the module, but the class of the
module, but that doesn't work either, I get 'module' object has no
attribute 'login'. I thought login.login() would look for the def
'login' not the class anyway?

So how do you import classes from other files in Python - I can only
seem to get it to import defs using 'from login import *' (yuk) or
'import login', but I need classes for wxPython.

Am I looking at this wrong, it is a bit of a Perl approach? Should I
be calling login.init() or something weird?

I always seem to get this with Python, I do pretty well, then I try to
tidy things up and it gets too fiddly, I guess I still haven't got my
head around OOP....


From imbosol at aerojockey.invalid  Wed Apr 28 02:01:49 2004
From: imbosol at aerojockey.invalid (Carl Banks)
Date: Wed, 28 Apr 2004 06:01:49 GMT
Subject: Is Perl *that* good?
References: <c6ich0$c5mee$1@ID-205437.news.uni-berlin.de>
	<iL3jc.232$Yc.2330@news4.e.nsc.no>
	<108q51j4dscn7dc@corp.supernews.com>
	<knbjc.267$id.3998@news2.e.nsc.no>
	<pan.2004.04.26.20.50.19.843510@hotmail.com>
	<87fzaqmm8t.fsf@strauser.com>
	<38ec68a6.0404262308.50029919@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.49.1083084698.25742.python-list@python.org>
	<pan.2004.04.27.18.15.56.169064@hotmail.com>
	<Z_Bjc.1397$ZD3.139@fe1.columbus.rr.com>
	<pan.2004.04.28.03.18.20.850410@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <hNHjc.799$Gq1.538@fe2.columbus.rr.com>

Paramjit Oberoi wrote:
> 
> 
>>> If only compiled regular expression objects allowed easy access to the
>>> last match object, python regxes would become significantly more
>>> convenient.  For example, today you have to write:
>> 
>> Hmm.  The reason this hasn't been done is that it makes the match
>> method non-reentrant.  For example, suppose you call some functions in
>> between the matching and use of the matched object, like this:
> 
> I agree that that's a good reason...
> 
> So: to make regular expressions convenient, it should be possible to use
> them without necessarily declaring a variable for the regular expression
> object or the match objects.  The former is fairly easy; the latter is
> not.
> 
> The match object needs to have local scope; but, a function cannot access
> the caller's locals without mucking around with sys._getframe(). Is there
> any other way of injecting objects into the caller's namespace?  Are there
> any objects that exist per-frame that could be co-opted for this purpose?
>
> I suppose a convenience module that uses sys._getframe() could be written,

Maybe something like this (I'll leave filling in details and fixing
bugs as an exercise):


    class magic_sre(_sre.whatever):

        _matchstore = {}

        def match(self,s):
            callhash = id(sys._getframe(1))
            match = _sre.whatever.match(self,s)
            self._matchstore[id] = match
            return match

        def matchobj(self):
            callhash = id(sys._getframe(1))
            return self._matchstore[id]


Calling matchobj() gets the match object that was matched in the
calling function using this regexp.  I'm pretty sure using id() of the
frame works: until the calling function exits, no other frame can have
the same id.

It has drawbacks though (only works with CPython, match objects stay
around forever, could accidently hit the storage if another frame has
the same id).


> but I don't think it would be suitable for the standard library.

It's such a silly thing I don't really see the need for it in the
standard library at all.  In fact, I prefer working explicitly with
match objects, working around unweildy testing when I have to.


-- 
CARL BANKS                      http://www.aerojockey.com/software
"If you believe in yourself, drink your school, stay on drugs, and
don't do milk, you can get work." 
          -- Parody of Mr. T from a Robert Smigel Cartoon


From godoy at ieee.org  Sun Apr 25 22:45:25 2004
From: godoy at ieee.org (Jorge Godoy)
Date: Sun, 25 Apr 2004 23:45:25 -0300
Subject: Parallel port interface
Message-ID: <ln9ul1-9h4.ln1@wintermute.g2ctech>

[I've posted this to the ttor mailing list as well. Sorry for whom receive
it twice.]

Hi!


We're doing a research project that involves controlling mini-windtrap
speeds and we're reading/writing data from the parallel port. 

What I've found so far on a fast Google search for "python parallel port"
showed me some stuff that I'd have to interface with Python through SWIG. 

If the program could be portable in Windows and Linux it would be a big
plus. We're thinking --- if it can't be written entirely in Python or with
modules that already have binaries for Windows --- in using a Linux only
approach (we, the programmers, use Linux only).


Any hints for modules I should take a look at? 


TIA,
-- 
Godoy.      <godoy at ieee.org>


From mjackson at alumni.caltech.edu  Wed Apr  7 10:50:37 2004
From: mjackson at alumni.caltech.edu (Mark Jackson)
Date: 7 Apr 2004 14:50:37 GMT
Subject: Are line continuations needed?
References: <407409ef.82801353@news.eircom.net>
	<40740f99@duster.adelaide.on.net>
Message-ID: <c514ft$bno$1@news.wrc.xerox.com>

Derek Thomson <derek at hiredgoons.org> writes:
> Russell Wallace wrote:
> > Hi all,
> > 
> > Python lets you continue a single logical line across more than one
> > physical line, either by putting a \ at the end or letting it happen
> > automatically with an incomplete infix operator.
> > 
> > I'm wondering how often is this feature needed? Would there be any
> > problems if it weren't part of the language?
> > 
> 
> I just needed to use this a few minutes ago, in a class declaration ...
> 
> class ParticleDistributionBehaviorServer \
>            (Microphysics__POA.ParticleDistributionBehavior):
> 
> I had to split the line to fit within 80 columns, and without the '\' 
> character I get the following error:
> 
> =====
> $ python scoping_server.py --POA
>    File "scoping_server.py", line 8
>      class ParticleDistributionBehaviorServer
>                                              ^
> SyntaxError: invalid syntax
> =====

This ought to work:

class ParticleDistributionBehaviorServer(
           Microphysics__POA.ParticleDistributionBehavior):

-- 
Mark Jackson - http://www.alumni.caltech.edu/~mjackson
	Hate to interrupt with a spelling flame, but it's "Cheney,"
	not "Chaney."  It may only be one letter, but it's 998 faces.
					- Mike Peterson




From fpetermaas at netscape.net  Thu Apr  1 04:41:12 2004
From: fpetermaas at netscape.net (Peter Maas)
Date: Thu, 01 Apr 2004 11:41:12 +0200
Subject: test for nan
In-Reply-To: <c4gjfj$gt4$1@swifty.westend.com>
References: <mailman.138.1080679635.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<c4gjfj$gt4$1@swifty.westend.com>
Message-ID: <c4go0u$l6n$1@swifty.westend.com>

Peter Maas wrote:
> John Hunter wrote:
>> Is there a better way to test for NaN than
>>
>>    str(p1)=='nan'
>>
>> where p1 is a float?
> [...]
> As far as I know NaN is th only value that yields false when compared
> to itself. This leads to
> 
 > def isNaN(x):
 >     return (x == x) == False

Shorter:

def isNaN(x):
     return x != x

Mit freundlichen Gruessen,

Peter Maas

-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Peter Maas, M+R Infosysteme, D-52070 Aachen, Hubert-Wienen-Str. 24
Tel +49-241-93878-0 Fax +49-241-93878-20 eMail peter.maas at mplusr.de
-------------------------------------------------------------------


From thefirstofnovember at yahoo.com  Mon Apr 19 09:59:44 2004
From: thefirstofnovember at yahoo.com (Kim)
Date: 19 Apr 2004 06:59:44 -0700
Subject: using QFtp class in PyQT
Message-ID: <2aa196bb.0404190559.3c41485d@posting.google.com>

Hi everybody,
I tried to write simple FTP program using PyQt version 3.11. The
document say that QFtp has been implemented, but i keep getting error
message from my simple program :

My Program:

from qt import *
from qtnetwork import *

def gotSignalStart(*arg):
    print "start ",arg

def gotSignalState(*arg):
    print "state ",arg

def gotListInfo(*arg):
    print "List info ",arg

def doFTP():
    fh = QFtp()
    QObject.connect(fh,SIGNAL("start()"),gotSignalStart);
    QObject.connect(fh,SIGNAL("stateChanged()"),gotSignalState);
    QObject.connect(fh,SIGNAL("listInfo()"),gotListInfo);
    fh.connectToHost("ftp.trolltech.com")
    fh.login()
    print fh.state()
    if fh.state() != QFtp.Unconnected : fh.close()

doFTP();

Error messages:

QObject::connect: No such signal QFtp::start()
QObject::connect:  (sender name:   'unnamed')
QObject::connect:  (receiver name: 'unnamed')
QObject::connect: No such signal QFtp::stateChanged()
QObject::connect:  (sender name:   'unnamed')
QObject::connect:  (receiver name: 'unnamed')
QObject::connect: No such signal QFtp::listInfo()
QObject::connect:  (sender name:   'unnamed')
QObject::connect:  (receiver name: 'unnamed')
0
QSocket::writeBlock: Socket is not open


Can anyone help?
Thanks very much
Kim


From alan_salmoni at yahoo.com  Thu Apr  8 07:51:45 2004
From: alan_salmoni at yahoo.com (Alan James Salmoni)
Date: 8 Apr 2004 04:51:45 -0700
Subject: [OT] The Cracker's Guide To Python
References: <04g770lqpbhdgr3n3b9mnu9o8f08fdkgk0@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <b68f71a7.0404080351.381fe1fe@posting.google.com>

Lol!

Maybe the idea could be added to by laying emphasis on certain
modules. Bundle up Python and advertise it on Kazaa like:

"Python - l334 5(r1pt1n9 t001z - crypt, encodings.idna, getpass, and
pwd [password] modules h4x0r3d and included as a bonus." :)

Maybe by the time they realise what's going really on, they'll be
seeing how well Python operates!

Alan James Salmoni

ps - sorry about the bad "leet' speak - I'm not very good at it...

Christos "TZOTZIOY" Georgiou <tzot at sil-tec.gr> wrote in message news:<04g770lqpbhdgr3n3b9mnu9o8f08fdkgk0 at 4ax.com>...
> Dear all,
> 
> yesterday afternoon I happened to be in the company of youngsters, and I
> overheard them talking about the whereabouts of the crack of the latest
> version of some famous video editing software... instead of preaching
> about legalities at first etc, I asked:
> 
> "What exactly do you need this software for?"
> 
> "I have two avi files and I want to join them..."
> 
> "Why don't you download VirtualDub and do your job then?  Google for it,
> it's open source and you can download it freely."
> 
> "So I don't need a crack for it?"
> 
> ... (!)
> 
> I'm skipping the rest of the conversation, but the idea of lots of
> youngsters around the world, brilliant and talented perhaps, that waste
> their time in illegal activities instead of investing it into open
> source software struck me as very depressing.
> 
> So jokingly, how do we advertise python in that "underground" world?
> Easy: let's provide a crack for every version of python for windows! :)
> It doesn't matter what it does, perhaps only change the copyright
> message into "H4x0r3d by Guid0 T34m" by changing directly the
> pythonxx.dll.  The only problem would be that if the crack is written in
> Python, it won't be able to open the dll as read-write...
> 
> It's a crazy world...


From danielcloutier at yahoo.com  Tue Apr 20 11:28:40 2004
From: danielcloutier at yahoo.com (Daniel Cloutier)
Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 17:28:40 +0200
Subject: Editing/Writing Word-Files from Python
Message-ID: <c63fgi$7esh7$1@ID-47444.news.uni-berlin.de>

Hi,

is it possible to edit or write Word-files out of a Python-Program?

thx in advance
daniel


From opengeometry at yahoo.ca  Fri Apr  2 15:19:31 2004
From: opengeometry at yahoo.ca (William Park)
Date: 2 Apr 2004 20:19:31 GMT
Subject: Simple text markup (-> HTML)
References: <tyf3c7m1zic.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
	<7x7jwy5fu3.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <c4khsj$2l6eut$1@ID-99293.news.uni-berlin.de>

Paul Rubin <http://phr.cx at nospam.invalid> wrote:
> Please don't invent yet another markup language.  It gets incredibly
> difficult to keep them all straight.

Seconded.  At least, try to use whitespace as markup tags... you'll be
surprised.

-- 
William Park, Open Geometry Consulting, <opengeometry at yahoo.ca>
Linux solution for data processing and document management.


From tweedgeezer at hotmail.com  Sat Apr 24 12:19:18 2004
From: tweedgeezer at hotmail.com (Jeremy Fincher)
Date: 24 Apr 2004 09:19:18 -0700
Subject: Regexp optimization question
References: <slrnc8gal3.9da.mlh@furu.idi.ntnu.no>
	<c6a8ku$jga$1@newsreader2.netcologne.de>
	<slrnc8ieul.7j7.mlh@furu.idi.ntnu.no>
Message-ID: <698f09f8.0404240819.1d3c6001@posting.google.com>

mlh at furu.idi.ntnu.no (Magnus Lie Hetland) wrote in message news:<slrnc8ieul.7j7.mlh at furu.idi.ntnu.no>...
> One problem might be that the regexp format seems to be quite
> stripped-down (although, of course, a regexp is a regexp,
> theoretically speaking ;)
> 
> No non-greedy matching, no lookahead/lookback etc.

It's important to note that many of these features turn the
expressions that represent their use into decidedly non-regular
expressions, regardless of what Pythoneers and Perlers call them :)

Jeremy


From __peter__ at web.de  Thu Apr  1 13:27:11 2004
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Thu, 01 Apr 2004 20:27:11 +0200
Subject: splitting one dictionary into two
References: <mailman.243.1080841383.20120.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <c4hmtv$tsg$04$1@news.t-online.com>

Robert Brewer wrote:

> ---- cleave.py ----
> 
EXPECTED_LEN = 100
class Unfair(Exception):
    pass

> def cleave(mapping, truthfunc):
>     """Solution by Robert Brewer."""
      if len(mapping) < EXPECTED_LEN:
          raise Unfair(str(len(mapping)))
>     dict1, dict2 = {}, {}
>     while mapping:
>         key, value = mapping.popitem()
>         if truthfunc(key, value):
>             dict2[key] = value
>         else:
>             dict1[key] = value
>     return dict1, dict2
> 
> def extractbykey(mapping, truthfunc):
>     """Solution by Peter Otten."""
      if len(mapping) < EXPECTED_LEN:
          raise Unfair(str(len(mapping)))
>     dict2 = {}
>     for key in mapping:
>         if truthfunc(key, mapping[key]):
>             dict2[key] = mapping[key]
>     
>     for key in dict2:
>         del mapping[key]
>     
>     return mapping, dict2
> 
> def inplace(mapping, truthfunc):
>     """Solution by wes weston."""
      if len(mapping) < EXPECTED_LEN:
          raise Unfair(str(len(mapping)))
>     dict2 = {}
>     for key, value in mapping.items():
>          if truthfunc(key, value): # some criterion
>              dict2[key] = value
>              del mapping[key]
> 
> --- end cleave.py ---

I suggest that you rerun your timings with the above modifications and a
dictionary of size EXPECTED_LEN.
I've got a hunch I caught you cheating :-)

Peter




From benn at cenix-bioscience.com  Fri Apr  2 02:20:30 2004
From: benn at cenix-bioscience.com (Neil Benn)
Date: Fri, 02 Apr 2004 09:20:30 +0200
Subject: Python conference slogan
In-Reply-To: <406C4DDF.5000907@zope.com>
References: <mailman.189.1080759511.20120.python-list@python.org>	<kmjsj1-89u.ln1@snout.lairds.org>	<c4glmq$j1i$1@swifty.westend.com>	<30260531.0404010833.1b834032@posting.google.com>
	<406C4DDF.5000907@zope.com>
Message-ID: <406D143E.30602@cenix-bioscience.com>

Hello,

          What about:-

'He's not a static type, he's a very naughty variable' - Life of Brian
'Code Away, Code Away, Code Away' - from Run Away in Holy Grail
'Number 3, the Python' - from the larch sketch
'We are the coders who say nee' - from the knight in the holy grail
'Good god man, I've thrown you an exception  It's nothing a mere 
NoneType' holy grail again

    The joy of being English is you grow up with this stuff!

Cheers,

Neil

Shane Hathaway wrote:

> simo wrote:
>
>> Peter Maas <fpetermaas at netscape.net> wrote:
>>
>>
>>> I surrender immediately and have to admit that I don't get it (One
>>> Nation Under Under Python). Google was no help. I couldn't find the
>>> source, only echoes (seems to be a wide spread joke pattern in the
>>> US). Care to give us ignorants a hint?
>>
>>
>>
>> Yeah, as an Englishman, I don't get it either (despite living in the 
>> US).
>
>
> Ok, it's definitely not good.  It's a cross between the U.S. Pledge of 
> Allegience and Python's use of double-underscores.  It was *not* 
> intended to suggest that Python replaces deity. ;-)
>
> Any creative suggestions?
>
> Shane
>

-- 

Neil Benn
Senior Automation Engineer
Cenix BioScience
PfotenhauerStrasse 108
D-01307
Dresden
Germany

Tel : +49 (351) 210 1300
e-mail : benn at cenix-bioscience.com
Cenix Website : http://www.cenix-bioscience.com




From noemail at noemail4u.com  Wed Apr 14 07:48:31 2004
From: noemail at noemail4u.com (Dang Griffith)
Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2004 11:48:31 GMT
Subject: Reommended compiler toolkit
References: <c5g8uu$aak$1@news2.netvision.net.il>
Message-ID: <df3b82188201eeb1d2caf740517eca96@news.teranews.com>

On Tue, 13 Apr 2004 11:37:36 +0200, Miki Tebeka
<miki.tebeka at zoran.com> wrote:

>Hello All,
>
>I'm looking for a pure python compiler toolkit (lexer + parser, like 
>flex + bison).
>
>I've seen many:
>ply (which I like most)
>SPARK
>Yapps
>PyLR
>kwParsing
>Plex
>FlexModule
>
>Which one do you recommend?
>Thanks.
>Miki
I use Paul McGuire's pyparsing, http://pyparsing.sourceforge.net.
It's pretty powerful, but uses Python to build the grammar,
instead of a BNF (or BNF-like) lexer.
    --dang


From jjl at pobox.com  Tue Apr  6 18:29:19 2004
From: jjl at pobox.com (John J. Lee)
Date: 06 Apr 2004 23:29:19 +0100
Subject: Python Filemanager and Shell Context Menu
References: <bta0705aci1h5apnkpqs7n1uhvmulcbo5s@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <87oeq4211c.fsf@pobox.com>

Francesco <scrutinizer at gmx.at> writes:

> Hello Pythonnian's
> 
> (sorry for crossposting)
> 
> I have written on the base of Miro Rajic a (still) small filemanager
> in wxPython.
> Now I want to add (for Windows XP) a explorer shell context menu.
> 
> I have no idea, how to accomplish this.
> For what I can imagine:
> Either use ctypes and the kernel or shell dll, or win32 extensions.
> 
> Have someone done such a task before?
> Can someone help me?
[...]

There's a good O'Reilly book about this, which certainly covers what
you want:

"Visual Basic Shell Programming", J.P. Hamilton


I used that book to write a trivial IE plugin that I posted to the
ctypes mailing list -- not directly relevant, but may set you on the
right track (it shows how to implement COM interfaces that aren't
defined in any type library).

Generally, for all this Windows shell programming, you implement some
COM interfaces, and then set up set up some registry keys to tell
Windows what you've done.  The book tells you which interfaces and
which keys you need, documents some bugs and oddities and gives some
example code.  You just have to translate the VB code to Python+ctypes
(which is not necessarily an entirely hitch-free process ;-).
Obviously, there's no Python-specific info in the book.


John


From giles_brown at hotmail.com  Fri Apr 23 08:57:48 2004
From: giles_brown at hotmail.com (Giles Brown)
Date: 23 Apr 2004 05:57:48 -0700
Subject: equivalent to Tcl 'after' command?
References: <huThc.54272$9V6.15414@newssvr25.news.prodigy.com>
Message-ID: <57de9986.0404230457.3184066@posting.google.com>

Mark Harrison <mh at pixar.com> wrote in message news:<huThc.54272$9V6.15414 at newssvr25.news.prodigy.com>...
> I'm writing some event-driven programs, and I would like
> to do the equivalent of the Tcl 'after' command, e.g.:
> 
> 	after 1000 {puts "one second has elapsed"}
> 
> 1.  What's the most canonical way of doing this?

Not exactly canonical (I certainly haven't used it more than once if that), but
there is the standard library "sched" module.

Giles


From flupke at nonexistingdomain.com  Thu Apr 22 08:23:00 2004
From: flupke at nonexistingdomain.com (news.telenet.be)
Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2004 12:23:00 GMT
Subject: python web programming / CMS
Message-ID: <EOOhc.82192$A9.5538906@phobos.telenet-ops.be>

Hi,

i'm looking at python to do programming for the new intranet
here at the company. I'm looking at plone/zope also.
Before, I've used jsp for webprogramming but i'm considering
python for this.
One thing that isn't clear to me is if it's possible to include python
code in a html page like you would do with jsp and then have zope
"translate" that to html. With jsp, one could use an apache/tomcat
combo to accomplish this.
If one can't include python in html, is Zope the only alternative and
how does code look like then?

Thanks




From richard at livsey.org  Tue Apr 20 05:05:58 2004
From: richard at livsey.org (Richard Livsey)
Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 10:05:58 +0100
Subject: outline-style sorting algorithm
In-Reply-To: <c62ms1$dh4$00$1@news.t-online.com>
References: <71650A6F73F1D411BE8000805F65E3CB3B3A4D@SRV-03>	<mailman.776.1082399762.20120.python-list@python.org>	<1088ehljpqq4195@corp.supernews.com>
	<c62ms1$dh4$00$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <4084E7F6.8030209@livsey.org>

Peter Otten wrote:

> Michael Geary wrote:
> 
>>Interestingly enough, in Windows XP, Windows Explorer lists these files in
>>numerical order:
>>
>>file1
>>...
>>file9
> 
> Seems they special-cased this. Can they deal with
> 
> fi1le
> fi2le
> fi10le
> 
> and
> 
> 1file
> 2file
> 10file
> 
> too?

I just checked and yes, these are sorted as expected (in the order you 
list).

-- 
R.Livsey
Incutio Web Developer
www.livsey.org
www.incutio.com



From jmeile at hotmail.com  Mon Apr 26 05:06:41 2004
From: jmeile at hotmail.com (Josef Meile)
Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2004 11:06:41 +0200
Subject: [OT] Plone
In-Reply-To: <KzWic.86438$G6.5456947@phobos.telenet-ops.be>
References: <6ukic.84257$cd.5573763@phobos.telenet-ops.be>
	<Bvyic.29702$635.10865@nwrdny03.gnilink.net>
	<KzWic.86438$G6.5456947@phobos.telenet-ops.be>
Message-ID: <408cd0ce$1@pfaff2.ethz.ch>

flupke wrote:
> 
> Well, the users need to be able to manage their own pages with an
> internal editor, version control, workflow (qa,publish) and so on.
> So if i would have to program that myself, it would take me longer
> than i have time for.
Well, you could also consider only CMF (CMS on which Plone is based)
or Silva, which doesn't have many products or documentation like CMF
or Plone, but it offers a nice way to publish web pages without having
to know html and it offers also a nice version/workflow control.

Regards,
Josef


From flupke at nonexistingdomain.com  Sun Apr 25 18:02:18 2004
From: flupke at nonexistingdomain.com (flupke)
Date: Sun, 25 Apr 2004 22:02:18 GMT
Subject: [OT] Plone
References: <6ukic.84257$cd.5573763@phobos.telenet-ops.be>
	<Bvyic.29702$635.10865@nwrdny03.gnilink.net>
Message-ID: <KzWic.86438$G6.5456947@phobos.telenet-ops.be>

bobb wrote:
> Zope is a framework.  You still have to build the house, though.
> Plone takes care of alot of that out of the box.
> You may not need Plone, you may not even need zope CMS, either.
>
> bobb

Well, the users need to be able to manage their own pages with an
internal editor, version control, workflow (qa,publish) and so on.
So if i would have to program that myself, it would take me longer
than i have time for.

flupke




From michael at foord.net  Mon Apr 19 03:11:19 2004
From: michael at foord.net (Fuzzyman)
Date: 19 Apr 2004 00:11:19 -0700
Subject: Wrapper round x86 Assembler
References: <8089854e.0404082353.7bf163a2@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.659.1082059832.20120.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <8089854e.0404182311.3a9c95d0@posting.google.com>

[snip..]
> >
> > Anyway - it would be easy to reserve some memory with a string like
> > object to pass to an 'assembly object' and allow some really nifty
> > (and fast) stuff ?? For simple algorithms it would be very neat.
> > Avoiding memory overflow etc would be up to the assembly code 'chunk'
> > of course.
> 
> 
> The following has been reposted by Bradley Schatz to the ctypes mailing
> list, it may indeed contain what you want, and it *is* very
> interesting.  The original post was to the bugtraq mailing list (or so):
> 
> from oliver.lavery at sympatico.ca
> 
> Today marks another solar cycle I've spent on this planet. To celebrate I'd
> like to share one of my toys with all of you.
> 
> Adder is a tool I wrote for myself, so that I could experiment with runtime
> modification of binary applications. I've found it really useful for
> prototyping run-time patches, understanding the effects and possibilities of
> call-hooking and other run-time program tweaks; that sort of thing. I hope
> you might find it useful too...
> 
> 
> Binary:
> http://www.rootkit.com/vault/x3nophi1e/adder-0.3.3-win32.zip
> ( NT 4 / 2000 / XP / 2003 )
> 
> Source:
> http://www.rootkit.com/vault/x3nophi1e/adder-0.3.3-src.zip
> 
> Documentation:
> http://www.rootkit.com/vault/x3nophi1e/adder-manual.zip
> ( please read the installation instructions in here. )
> 
> 
[snip..]

Very interesting.
It looks like Adder *does* contain what I originally asked for - a
wrapper round an assembler, with the ability to assemble into memory
and jump into the code. All contained within a much more sophisticated
package for bug finding and reverse engineering.

*However* - I've just discovered Weave - a package that is part of the
SciPy project and allows for (almost) inline C functions that can be
dynamically compiled at run-time.

As I'd like to learn Pyrex (and so need to learn C) - I think I'll
experiment with Weave.

Thanks.

Fuzzy

http://www.voidspace.org.uk/atlantibots/pythonutils.html


From earlw at roadrunner.nf.net  Tue Apr 13 08:25:27 2004
From: earlw at roadrunner.nf.net (Earl Woodman)
Date: 13 Apr 2004 05:25:27 -0700
Subject: Integrating with C++ (VS.NET 2002)
Message-ID: <26152a6.0404130425.5ebca6d1@posting.google.com>

I'm having some trouble linking my C++ program with the python
library. I'm getting '<symbol> already defined in libcmtd.lib'. I've
already changed pyconfig.h so that the debug library uses python23.lib
instead of the _d version, and I get a similar message when I link
release (libcmt.lib). Any ideas what I'm doing wrong? I've tried
putting the library search path to C:\Python23\libs at both the
beginning and the end of the list of library paths in the Options
dialog of VS.NET, and I've even tried adding the lib directly into my
additional libraries setting within the properties window for my
executable.

Thanks


From peter at engcorp.com  Thu Apr 29 22:24:34 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Thu, 29 Apr 2004 22:24:34 -0400
Subject: Andreas' practical language comparison
In-Reply-To: <873c6m5vrq.fsf@pobox.com>
References: <c6glig$phm$07$4@news.t-online.com>
	<TrGdnVUrJdjsahbdRVn-iQ@powergate.ca>
	<c6gu81$pk6$05$2@news.t-online.com>
	<408c23b8$0$41746$5fc3050@dreader2.news.tiscali.nl>
	<5ago80thlgfrsrapol1lldi2cq0uulto4n@4ax.com>
	<873c6m5vrq.fsf@pobox.com>
Message-ID: <boydnb5qfrp-JQzdRVn-gw@powergate.ca>

John J. Lee wrote:

> I think there's an n-queens solution by Tim Peters somewhere, written
> as an example of Python simple generators (which is mostly 'his'
> language feature, IIRC).

Google found a page which says:
   Two other examples in Lib/test/test_generators.py produce solutions
   for the N-Queens problem (placing  queens on an  chess board so that
   no queen threatens another) and the Knight's Tour (a route that takes
   a knight to every square of an  chessboard without visiting any square
   twice).

So I guess the answer would be "use the source".

-Peter


From Holger.Joukl at LBBW.de  Fri Apr 23 10:54:38 2004
From: Holger.Joukl at LBBW.de (Holger Joukl)
Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2004 16:54:38 +0200
Subject: solaris threading problem: interpreter hangs on shutdown
Message-ID: <OF6C8AB409.C16B503C-ONC1256E7F.00505455@lbbw.sko.de>


Hi there,
I have severe problems running python 1.5.2 (yes I know, but this is a
productive environment;
cannot switch to py 2.3.3 until later this year...) on several
multi-processor sun systems.
This happens intermittently, both on solaris 6 and solaris 8 systems.

Basically, there is a mainthread that controls start and cleanup of some
other threads.
If one of those has done all its processing, it registers itself in the
to-be-finished list
of the main application object. The mainthread then invokes some cleanup
stuff,
makes sure all of the working treads end (they are .join-ed), and exits..
This works fine in maybe 95 % of all runs, but sometimes the program just
hangs.
Still, all the processing has been done correctly by that time, it simply
does not end.

The truss output in such a situation looks like that:
16562:  lwp_cond_wait(0xFF275548, 0xFF275558, 0xFF26EDB0) (sleeping...)
16562:  door_return(0x00000000, 0, 0x00000000, 0) (sleeping...)
16562:  poll(0xFEE09A28, 2, 10000)                      = 0
16562:  signotifywait()                 (sleeping...)
16562:  lwp_sema_wait(0xFEF0DE30)       (sleeping...)
16562:  lwp_sema_wait(0xFEA03E30)       (sleeping...)
16562:  poll(0xFEE09A28, 2, 10000)      (sleeping...)
16562:  lwp_sema_wait(0xFED09E30)       (sleeping...)
16562:  lwp_sema_wait(0xFF26FA08)       (sleeping...)
16562:  lwp_sema_wait(0xFEB05E30)       (sleeping...)
16562:  lwp_sema_wait(0x00094990)       (sleeping...)
16562:  lwp_cond_wait(0xFF275548, 0xFF275558, 0xFF26EDB0) (sleeping...)
16562:  door_return(0x00000000, 0, 0x00000000, 0) (sleeping...)
16562:  poll(0xFEE09A28, 2, 10000)                      = 0
16562:  signotifywait()                 (sleeping...)
16562:  lwp_sema_wait(0xFEF0DE30)       (sleeping...)
16562:  lwp_sema_wait(0xFEA03E30)       (sleeping...)
16562:  poll(0xFEE09A28, 2, 10000)      (sleeping...)
16562:  lwp_sema_wait(0xFED09E30)       (sleeping...)
16562:  lwp_sema_wait(0xFF26FA08)       (sleeping...)
16562:  lwp_sema_wait(0xFEB05E30)       (sleeping...)
16562:  lwp_sema_wait(0x00094990)       (sleeping...)

I do not have any clue what?s the reason for this, because everything just
seems to
work fine according to the debug output. - no possible deadlocks or
anything.
As this is s.th. I cannot reproduce within a simple sample app, it is also
difficult
for me to post any code...

But, from the back of my head, I think I somewhere read s.th. about
python/solaris threading
problems, I just did not find anything relevant on python.org or by
googling.

Does anybody know of python 1.5.2 threading library problems, in which
python release
this has been fixed, etc.???
Even vague hints are really appreciated!

Have a nice weekend,
  Holger

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From sean_berry at cox.net  Tue Apr 13 06:01:02 2004
From: sean_berry at cox.net (Sean Berry)
Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2004 03:01:02 -0700
Subject: Escaping characters in MySQLdb query
Message-ID: <AkEec.271$U83.155@fed1read03>

I wrote a little script that is inserting thousands of records into a mysql
database.

How do I escape characters like ' in my insert statements?

I have something like the following (much shorter) example:

c.execute("INSERT INTO records (var1, var2) values ('%s', '%s')"   %(value1,
value2))

My problem is when value1 is something like "Tom's auto supply".  The ' in
Tom's needs to be escaped.  How can I do this?

Thanks.




From martin at v.loewis.de  Tue Apr 13 17:45:18 2004
From: martin at v.loewis.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?=22Martin_v=2E_L=F6wis=22?=)
Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2004 23:45:18 +0200
Subject: interpreter limits
In-Reply-To: <m3u0zn93sg.fsf@union.tjtech.com>
References: <m3zn9f95xm.fsf@union.tjtech.com>
	<407c23bf$0$570$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>
	<m3u0zn93sg.fsf@union.tjtech.com>
Message-ID: <c5hn16$6eh$06$2@news.t-online.com>

Joseph T. Bore wrote:

> 
> Indeed.  In my case MOO is where I got the idea from.  moop is also a
> side interest of mine where this becomes very important.
> 
> Any idea if it's possible?  should I write a PEP?

You can impose such limits with a trace hook in the thread running the
code.

HTH,
Martin



From __peter__ at web.de  Wed Apr 21 05:41:34 2004
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2004 11:41:34 +0200
Subject: Dollar sign ($) on foriegn keyboards? (prothon)
References: <mk3hc.13895$dZ1.10823@fed1read04>
	<c62m70$2hu$06$1@news.t-online.com>
	<slrnc89q11.pnv.joe@gate.notcharles.ca>
	<c631kk$9j9$04$1@news.t-online.com>
	<oBhhc.17591$dZ1.14065@fed1read04>
	<c1qhc.18439$dZ1.2680@fed1read04>
Message-ID: <c65fkf$1q4$05$2@news.t-online.com>

Mark Hahn wrote:

> 
> "Mark Hahn" <mark at prothon.org> wrote ...
> 
>> bm = obj..func  # get func from obj and make bound method from obj and
> func
>> bm = obj$$func # get func from obj and make bound method from self and
> func
> 
> Don't look to close at the details of the proposal.  People over at the
> Prothon mailing list are shooting holes in it as I type.  For example, the
> brain-melting double periods and double dollar-signs are already history.

You seem to be both determined and open to critique - a good combination
IMHO.

Peer


From peter at engcorp.com  Wed Apr  7 09:18:46 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Wed, 07 Apr 2004 09:18:46 -0400
Subject: what relationship between this mail list and the python group on
In-Reply-To: <mailman.407.1081323836.20120.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.407.1081323836.20120.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <hsWdncr_b84rYu7d4p2dnA@powergate.ca>

huzhenghui37 wrote:

> what relationship between this mail list and the python group on Google?
> i saw the same info on both

They are the same.  Mailing is mirrored to the Usenet group
comp.lang.python (that's what you are calling the "python group on
Google") while posts to the newsgroup are mirrored to the mailing
list.

-Peter


From dima at debian.org  Sun Apr  4 17:40:34 2004
From: dima at debian.org (Dima Barsky)
Date: Sun, 04 Apr 2004 22:40:34 +0100
Subject: user authentication via /etc/passwd|/etc/shadow
References: <c4ork9$2kssti$1@ID-165840.news.uni-berlin.de>
	<c4phmr$k6i$04$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <pdx7jwvzajx.fsf@kappa.ac93.org>

Marco Herrn wrote:

> I want to write a program where I authenticate users via the standard
> unix system accounts. I didn't find a module providing this
> functionality. Is there such a module available? If not, how can I
> achieve this?

You can try the python-pam module:

http://ftp.debian.org/debian/pool/main/p/python-pam/python-pam_0.4.2-10.1.tar.gz

Regards,
Dima.


From noemail at noemail4u.com  Wed Apr  7 08:15:09 2004
From: noemail at noemail4u.com (Dang Griffith)
Date: Wed, 07 Apr 2004 12:15:09 GMT
Subject: slightly OT: BUT NEEDs to be said
References: <4078daf265c69e9353e8af72542da703@dizum.com>
	<mailman.362.1081179965.20120.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <955356f7fdc76391ccde34175c349dc6@news.teranews.com>

On Mon, 5 Apr 2004 09:46:11 -0600, "Dave Brueck"
<dave at pythonapocrypha.com> wrote:

>Somebody's at my door - better send this off quick. Before I do though, I do
>want to shed light on the all-time greatest user filter put in place by the
>PSU - the autocoding project by Ti.*%^ NO CARRIER
>

I hated to do that, but someone had to stop him.
He was confusing my cat.  
    --dang


From peter at engcorp.com  Mon Apr 12 07:20:18 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2004 07:20:18 -0400
Subject: A new OS
In-Reply-To: <107k441hitt2ld9@corp.supernews.com>
References: <107k441hitt2ld9@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <AtKdnS3AMJ3s5ufdRVn-vw@powergate.ca>

A Evans wrote:

> Hello Everyone I am working towards starting a project developing a new
> Operating System using the Python language (or a derivative thereof). As
> recommended on this forum I am asking if people are interested in something
> like this and ask who would be willing to support a project this large.
> 
> Any and all ideas are welcome this message is just to see what kind of
> support this project would recieve

I would never even consider such a thing (supporting it, that is) unless
someone explained in detail what they saw as the disadvantages of
current operating systems (e.g. Linux) and what they felt Python would
contribute which would make their product so "revolutionary".

-Peter


From rawbobb at hotmail.com  Sun Apr 18 15:41:25 2004
From: rawbobb at hotmail.com (bobb)
Date: Sun, 18 Apr 2004 19:41:25 GMT
Subject: New scripts directory
References: <mailman.736.1082255193.20120.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <FRAgc.16532$635.372@nwrdny03.gnilink.net>

yo vlad, how about a python section ? (for a python group?)

  "CodeStreets.com" <info at codestreets.com> wrote in message news:mailman.736.1082255193.20120.python-list at python.org...
  Hi,

  We would like to announce a new scripts directory website - http://www.codestreets.com - and we invite you to add your scripts. It's FREE.

  Best regards,

  Vlad
  www.codestreets.com 
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From bart_nessux at hotmail.com  Fri Apr 30 16:36:35 2004
From: bart_nessux at hotmail.com (bart_nessux)
Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2004 16:36:35 -0400
Subject: calling functions at the same time
Message-ID: <c6udda$qpv$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu>

I need a script to call several functions at the same time. How does one 
call more than one function simultaneously?





From http  Thu Apr  1 14:08:49 2004
From: http (Paul Rubin)
Date: 01 Apr 2004 11:08:49 -0800
Subject: Travelling salesman variation in python
References: <slrnc6on9h.spl.erlendga@tva.ifi.uio.no>
	<c4ho3l$4he$1@news.service.uci.edu>
	<slrnc6op8l.spl.erlendga@tva.ifi.uio.no>
Message-ID: <7xhdw3zfb2.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

Erlend Andreas Garberg <erlendga at tva.ifi.uio.no> writes:
> An approximate solution would be good enough, do you have any 
> suggestions about how do do that?

Is it just an arbitrary graph?  Most TSP approximation algorithms
depend e.g. on the triangle inequality, i.e. d(A,C) <= d(A,B) + d(B,C).

Papadimitriou and Stieglitz, "Combinatorial Optimization" was a
standard textbook on this stuff, though is pretty old by now.


From me at privacy.net  Wed Apr 21 05:14:48 2004
From: me at privacy.net (Duncan Booth)
Date: 21 Apr 2004 09:14:48 GMT
Subject: PDF library?
References: <7xad1631j8.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<pan.2004.04.21.09.49.28.891429@NOTTHISBIT.webone.com.au>
	<7xzn96drse.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <Xns94D26838FBDAduncanrcpcouk@127.0.0.1>

Paul Rubin <http://phr.cx at NOSPAM.invalid> wrote in 
news:7xzn96drse.fsf at ruckus.brouhaha.com:

> Simon Burton <simonb at NOTTHISBIT.webone.com.au> writes:
>> http://www.reportlab.org/
>> 
>> handles pdf files.
> 
> Reportlab generates reports in pdf format, but I want to do the
> opposite, namely read in pdf files that have already been generated by
> a different program, and crunch on them.  Any more ideas?  Thanks.

Reportlab does that as well, but you either have to pay them money or live 
with a Reportlab watermark added to each page you process. So, if you are 
doing this for fun it may not be a useful answer, but if its commercial you 
can investigate it for free and pay later to remove the watermark.



From anton at vredegoor.doge.nl  Sun Apr 18 07:31:27 2004
From: anton at vredegoor.doge.nl (Anton Vredegoor)
Date: Sun, 18 Apr 2004 13:31:27 +0200
Subject: help with str()
References: <See_my-763698.04154818042004@news.verizon.net>
Message-ID: <40826776$0$136$3a628fcd@reader1.nntp.hccnet.nl>

Tuxtrax wrote:

>No dice. In every case, I get the following error:
>
>Traceback (most recent call last):
>  File "headhunter.py", line 317, in ?
>    response, poster = n.xhdr("from", 
>first_available_message+"-"+str(last_message))
>TypeError: 'str' object is not callable

Maybe this rings a bell:

 Python 2.3.2 (#1, Oct  9 2003, 12:03:29) 
 [GCC 3.3.1 (cygming special)] on cygwin
 Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more
information.
 >>> str(5)
 '5'
 >>> str = "don't do this"
 >>> str(5)
 Traceback (most recent call last):
   File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
 TypeError: 'str' object is not callable
 >>> 

Anton


From jonas at jonasgalvez.com  Wed Apr 21 12:59:24 2004
From: jonas at jonasgalvez.com (Jonas Galvez)
Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2004 13:59:24 -0300
Subject: Stupid Regex Question
References: <c667m3$6up$1@sea.gmane.org> <c668b5$8s9$1@sea.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <c669ct$bsg$1@sea.gmane.org>

> [Fredrik Lundh]
> print re.findall("<tag>(.*?)</tag>", str)

WOW! Thanks a bunch (again).

Hehe, I had already written the following:

def getIndices(str, base):
    indices = []
    offset = 0
    while True:
        i = base.find(str, offset)
        if i == -1: break
        indices.append(i)
        offset = i+1
    return indices

def getContent(a, b, str):
    content = []
    startIndices = getIndices(a, str)
    endIndices = getIndices(b, str)
    startSlice = len(a)
    def add(s, e):
        content.append(str[s+startSlice:e])
    map(add, startIndices, endIndices)
    return content

Ouch.





=-
Jonas Galvez
jonasgalvez.com/blog
macromedia.com/go/team







From stach at fr.USUN.pl  Thu Apr 15 17:45:47 2004
From: stach at fr.USUN.pl (Krzysztof Stachlewski)
Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2004 23:45:47 +0200
Subject: newbie question
In-Reply-To: <Xns94CCA82D89C84plasticnospamplsxsin@216.77.188.18>
References: <Xns94CCA389D3DA0plasticnospamplsxsin@216.77.188.18>
	<c5mtsl$dns$2@absinth.dialog.net.pl>
	<Xns94CCA82D89C84plasticnospamplsxsin@216.77.188.18>
Message-ID: <c5mvrg$fda$1@absinth.dialog.net.pl>

jeff wrote:

> ok this is the bit i'm working with, i'm tinkering with sockets.
> when the recieved text == kill, i want the socket to close.  actually, the 
> example i posted worked for me too, but i don't understand why this 
> doesn't.
> 
> while 1:
> 	sdata = s.recv(1024)
> 	if not sdata: break
> 	if sdata == "kill": s.close()
> 	print "Recieved:", sdata

First of all, you can't be sure that you will receive the text "kill"
in one piece. It could happen that one recv() call will give only
"ki" and the following recv() will return the rest of it.
Moreover - try to print repr(sdata) and see what *exactly* is received.

-- 
Stach  Tlen: stachobywatelpl, GG: 1811474
        Jabber: stach at jabber atman pl


From peter at engcorp.com  Sun Apr 11 18:06:11 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Sun, 11 Apr 2004 18:06:11 -0400
Subject: OT: history of discussion forums
In-Reply-To: <4079215A.3010606@cs.com>
References: <mailman.407.1081323836.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<4079215A.3010606@cs.com>
Message-ID: <sfOdndnwedXPXOTdRVn-sw@powergate.ca>

Robert M. Emmons wrote:
>> what relationship between this mail list and the python group on Google?
>> i saw the same info on both
> 
> Just some background.  USENET or Network News is the second oldest 
> discussion forum group around.  It's been around since the 1980's or 
> maybe 1970's.  

What, in your opinion, was the first?


From cookedm+news at physics.mcmaster.ca  Thu Apr 15 17:38:28 2004
From: cookedm+news at physics.mcmaster.ca (David M. Cooke)
Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2004 17:38:28 -0400
Subject: Socket error: 10053 software caused connection abort
References: <c5kc37$kco$1@newshispeed.ch>
	<407eda4e$0$576$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>
	<c5mmqf$6mg$1@newshispeed.ch>
Message-ID: <qnkd668udkb.fsf@arbutus.physics.mcmaster.ca>

At some point, "Jean-Pierre Bergamin" <james at ractive.ch> wrote:

> Hi Irmen
>
>> But this code is flawed: recv() CAN return less than block_size,
>> *even* if there is more data to be read on the socket.
>>
>> So, you should not check if the length of the received chunk
>> is less than the length argument passed to recv().
>>
>> Instead, you should count the total number of bytes you
>> received and check that with the expected total amount.
>
> But how can I know the amout of data I will receive? There's no way to do
> that, since it's totally random how large the sent data will be.

You don't know, unless you send the size (like HTTP with the
Content-length: header), or have some way of knowing when
you're done (like SMTP or IMAP, which use CR-LF to signify the end of
the line).

-- 
|>|\/|<
/--------------------------------------------------------------------------\
|David M. Cooke
|cookedm(at)physics(dot)mcmaster(dot)ca


From greg at cosc.canterbury.ac.nz  Mon Apr 26 01:11:38 2004
From: greg at cosc.canterbury.ac.nz (Greg Ewing)
Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2004 17:11:38 +1200
Subject: Regexp optimization question
In-Reply-To: <slrnc8l151.788.mlh@furu.idi.ntnu.no>
References: <slrnc8gal3.9da.mlh@furu.idi.ntnu.no>
	<c6a8ku$jga$1@newsreader2.netcologne.de>
	<slrnc8ieul.7j7.mlh@furu.idi.ntnu.no>
	<kblic.15952$hR1.8421@fe2.texas.rr.com>
	<slrnc8l151.788.mlh@furu.idi.ntnu.no>
Message-ID: <c6i5mj$c88qv$1@ID-169208.news.uni-berlin.de>

Magnus Lie Hetland wrote:
> BTW: I have not done some experiments with Plex with lots of regular
> expressiosn; simply compiling a pattern with 500 alternatives took
> forever, whereas re.compile was quite fast.

Yeow, that's really thrashing Plex to death. Did you wait
for it to finish? I'm curious how long it actually took.

Plex is really designed for parsing programming languages
and the like, where the number of patterns is small enough
to be written by hand, and some common sense used in the
process. For example, if you have a lot of patterns with a
regularity to them such as "foo1", "foo2", ..., "foo500"
it will be much faster to compile a pattern such as

   Str("foo") + (Range("19") | (Range("09") + Range("09"))
      | (Range("14") + Range("09") + Range("09")) | Str("500"))

than to compile a huge expression with 500 alternatives.
The resulting state machine will likely be a lot smaller,
too.

On the plus side, scanning will be just as fast however
you write the REs, which is not true for most RE
implementations of the Perl variety.

One more tip: If you're careful what sort of things you
use for actions, you can pickle the Lexicon, so that it
only needs to be generated once rather than each time the
program starts up. I'm currently doing this in Pyrex, and
it works quite well. Let me know if you want any more info
about doing this.

-- 
Greg Ewing, Computer Science Dept,
University of Canterbury,	
Christchurch, New Zealand
http://www.cosc.canterbury.ac.nz/~greg



From jcarlson at uci.edu  Mon Apr 12 15:05:08 2004
From: jcarlson at uci.edu (Josiah Carlson)
Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2004 12:05:08 -0700
Subject: How to kill a SocketServer?
In-Reply-To: <c5e6k3$jf4$1@newshispeed.ch>
References: <c5e6k3$jf4$1@newshispeed.ch>
Message-ID: <c5epfl$67h$1@news.service.uci.edu>

> Using an asynchronous server is not an option.

You don't need to answer, but I'm curious as to why this is not an 
option.  Do you not have select on your platform?

  - Josiah


From imbosol at aerojockey.com  Fri Apr  9 17:17:22 2004
From: imbosol at aerojockey.com (Carl Banks)
Date: 9 Apr 2004 14:17:22 -0700
Subject: Indent testers needed (Prothon)
References: <Unqbc.131025$cx5.57643@fed1read04>
	<c51rpj$2nk5rd$1@ID-180326.news.uni-berlin.de>
	<tyf3c7ewvlz.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
	<c55era$2p4mnp$1@ID-180326.news.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <60dfb6f6.0404091317.4875c203@posting.google.com>

Jon Perez <jbperez808 at yahoo.com> wrote in message news:<c55era$2p4mnp$1 at ID-180326.news.uni-berlin.de>...
> Jacek Generowicz wrote:
> 
> >>Perhaps the pro-spaces people can explain how they deal
> >>with it.
> > 
> > Emacs
> 
> Asking people to stop switch away from their favorite editors

He wasn't doing that, bub.


-- 
CARL BANKS


From michele.simionato at poste.it  Mon Apr 26 00:22:51 2004
From: michele.simionato at poste.it (Michele Simionato)
Date: 25 Apr 2004 21:22:51 -0700
Subject: ZWiki and FitTests (was Re: Richards bench benchmark)
References: <6748553f.0403291446.27fb7b93@posting.google.com>
	<6748553f.0403300836.744e3e22@posting.google.com>
	<Etqdnd8EeYGjM_TdRVn-jA@powergate.ca>
	<6748553f.0403302317.4595844@posting.google.com>
	<RuKdnc0lmsZFTfHdRVn-ug@powergate.ca>
	<6748553f.0404060802.6e0d708c@posting.google.com>
	<nrKdnaEeNcXAYu_dRVn-vw@powergate.ca>
	<6748553f.0404211342.7591cd8e@posting.google.com>
	<40899240.7020508@engcorp.com>
	<95aa1afa.0404242222.15101178@posting.google.com>
	<fIOdnZ5iiNpJMBbd4p2dnA@powergate.ca>
Message-ID: <95aa1afa.0404252022.68926c78@posting.google.com>

Peter Hansen <peter at engcorp.com> wrote in message news:<fIOdnZ5iiNpJMBbd4p2dnA at powergate.ca>...
> I use ZWiki because four years ago when we tried to set up an
> Intranet at Kaval, we got Zope and ZWiki working very easily
> with little effort.
> 
> Then we tried to build on that, and improve things, and write
> our own products, and we encountered what seemed like a very
> tall and steep learning curve with Zope.  We never got a whole
> lot further with it, but it remains for me one of the simplest
> combinations of things available to get a wiki set up
> quickly (i.e. a couple of minutes of work, post installation).
> 
> You'll notice, perhaps, that I'm using a fairly old version
> of ZWiki.  I'm loath to update, at this point, partly because
> "it's working" and partly because I try to make as few changes
> as possible to anything we do with Zope, including attempting
> to figure out how to get the "new" testing framework working.
> (I say "new" because of course I'm now way behind the times
> in this area and most others of Zope.)  I'm not particularly
> surprised to hear that you didn't get it working yourself.
> 
> -Peter

Well, so far my experience with Zope closely match yours; that's why
I asked here before trying touching anything ;) So, what about my
second question, i.e. other fit tests for Python?


        Michele Simionato


From jbperez808 at yahoo.com  Thu Apr  8 00:31:34 2004
From: jbperez808 at yahoo.com (Jon Perez)
Date: Thu, 08 Apr 2004 12:31:34 +0800
Subject: When to use PyMem_Malloc()?
Message-ID: <c52k7m$2mq8j6$1@ID-180326.news.uni-berlin.de>

According to the Python docs...

"In most situations ... it is recommended to allocate memory from
the Python heap specifically because the latter is under control
of the Python memory manager. For example, this is required when the
interpreter is extended with new object types written in C. Another
reason for using the Python heap is the desire to inform the Python
memory manager about the memory needs of the extension module. Even
when the requested memory is used exclusively for internal,
highly-specific purposes, delegating all memory requests to the
Python memory manager causes the interpreter to have a more accurate
image of its memory footprint as a whole. Consequently, under certain
circumstances, the Python memory manager may or may not trigger
appropriate actions, like garbage collection, memory compaction or
other preventive procedures. Note that by using the C library
allocator as shown in the previous example, the allocated memory for
the I/O buffer escapes completely the Python memory manager."


Are there any disadvantages to using PyMem_Malloc() such that
there are times when one would prefer to use a plain malloc()?


From nc-jantzegu at netcologne.de  Tue Apr  6 19:15:17 2004
From: nc-jantzegu at netcologne.de (Günter Jantzen)
Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2004 01:15:17 +0200
Subject: regex question
References: <pan.2004.04.06.00.54.58.864209@presidency.com>
Message-ID: <c4vdm7$mce$1@newsreader2.netcologne.de>


"Rajarshi Guha" <rajarshi at presidency.com> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:pan.2004.04.06.00.54.58.864209 at presidency.com...
> Hi,
>   this is not specifically a Python question but since I'm doing it in
> Python I thought I'd ask here.
>
> I have a BibTeX file with entries of the form
>
> @Article{dkapp3,
>   author = {Kier, L.B},
>   title = {Distinguishing Atom Differences in a Molecular Graph Index},
>   journal = {Quant. Struct.-Act. Relat. Pharmacol.,Chem. Bio},
>   year = {1986},
>   OPTkey = {},
>   volume = {5},
>   OPTnumber = {},
>   pages = {7-12},
>   OPTmonth = {},
>   OPTnote = {},
>   OPTannote = {}
> }
>
> (it also has entries for Book and InBook)
>
> I have an re that is able to get each bibitem: @Article{(.*?)}\n
> From the result I can easily get the key using: @.+?\{(.+?),
>
> I was wondering if it would be possible to do the two things in one re.
> That is, first get the string of 1 bibitem and then within that get the
> key from the matched bibitem.
>
> I think I should be using a lookbehind(?) but I'm not sure.
>
> Any pointers would be appreicated
>
> Thanks
>
>
> --
> -------------------------------------------------------------------
> Rajarshi Guha  <rajarshi at presidency.com> <http://jijo.cjb.net>
> GPG Fingerprint: 0CCA 8EE2 2EEB 25E2 AB04  06F7 1BB9 E634 9B87 56EE
> -------------------------------------------------------------------
> Q:  What's purple and commutes?
> A:  An abelian grape.
>

Hello Rajarshi,

I think the following program is not very useful, if the entries differ only
a bit, but it answers your question

import re

rx_bibtex= re.compile(
'''\@Article\{(?P<article>[^,]+),
 *author = \{(?P<author>[^}]*)\},
 *title = \{(?P<title>[^}]*)\},
 *journal = \{(?P<journal>[^}]*)\},
 *year = \{(?P<year>[^}]*)\},
 *OPTkey = \{(?P<OPTkey>[^}]*)\},
 *volume = \{(?P<volume>[^}]*)\},
 *OPTnumber = \{(?P<OPTnumber>[^}]*)\},
 *pages = \{(?P<pages>[^}]*)\},
 *OPTmonth = \{(?P<OPTmonth>[^}]*)\},
 *OPTnote = \{(?P<OPTnote>[^}]*)\},
 *OPTannote = \{(?P<OPTannote>[^}]*)\}
\}''')



s='''@Article{dkapp3,
  author = {Kier, L.B},
  title = {Distinguishing Atom Differences in a Molecular Graph Index},
  journal = {Quant. Struct.-Act. Relat. Pharmacol.,Chem. Bio},
  year = {1986},
  OPTkey = {},
  volume = {5},
  OPTnumber = {},
  pages = {7-12},
  OPTmonth = {},
  OPTnote = {},
  OPTannote = {}
}
'''

mo = rx_bibtex.match(s)
if mo:
    print mo.groupdict()


G?nter




From mike at odyne.com  Tue Apr  6 17:42:50 2004
From: mike at odyne.com (Mike)
Date: 6 Apr 2004 14:42:50 -0700
Subject: Tkinter radiobutton border
Message-ID: <a6d1df44.0404061342.63d8ce60@posting.google.com>

I've placed a radiobutton on a green panel.  The background of the
radiobutton is also green.  Borderwidth is 0 and relief is FLAT.  I
still get a thin gray border around the radiobutton.  What is this
border, and how can I get rid of it.  Thanks.

Mike


From __peter__ at web.de  Thu Apr 22 08:46:21 2004
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2004 14:46:21 +0200
Subject: Tkinter: how to fill values in OptionMenu dynamically
References: <mailman.896.1082605756.20120.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <c68eqt$k5j$00$1@news.t-online.com>

Jeffrey Barish wrote:

> Is there a way to fill the values in an OptionMenu dynamically?  I need
> something like the add_command method from Menu.  Is there a better way
> to implement a pull-down list?

OptionMenu wasn't designed with this usage pattern in mind. But you can
force it:

import Tkinter as tk

class OptionMenu(tk.OptionMenu):
    def __init__(self, *args, **kw):
        self._command = kw.get("command")
        tk.OptionMenu.__init__(self, *args, **kw)
    def addOption(self, label):
        self["menu"].add_command(label=label,
            command=tk._setit(variable, label, self._command))

if __name__ == "__main__":
    root = tk.Tk()

    variable = tk.StringVar()
    variable.set("beta")

    optionMenu = OptionMenu(root, variable, "alpha", "beta", "gamma")
    optionMenu.pack()

    btn = tk.Button(root, text="Add",
        command=lambda: optionMenu.addOption("DELTA"))
    btn.pack()

    root.mainloop()

If you are looking for something more robust/complete than my little adhoc
subclass, you might have a look at the Python Megawidgets (pmw.sf.net).

Peter



From jcarlson at uci.edu  Fri Apr  2 15:15:40 2004
From: jcarlson at uci.edu (Josiah Carlson)
Date: Fri, 02 Apr 2004 12:15:40 -0800
Subject: Creating a matrix?
In-Reply-To: <mailman.277.1080919678.20120.python-list@python.org>
References: <c4jve7$5vr$1@bagan.srce.hr>
	<mailman.277.1080919678.20120.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <c4khri$28$1@news.service.uci.edu>

>    [ [0]*N for i in range( N ) ]

xrange is a bit faster for large N, you don't need to create a list that 
gets destroyed.

  - Josiah


From s_gherman at yahoo.com  Fri Apr 16 14:54:38 2004
From: s_gherman at yahoo.com (Sorin Gherman)
Date: 16 Apr 2004 11:54:38 -0700
Subject: empty window when using askopenfile
Message-ID: <ac259413.0404161054.3bcaeaa8@posting.google.com>

Is there any way to minimize/hide the annoying default, empty Tk
window that shows behind the native file opening dialog , when using
askopenfile, etc, in tkCommonDialog?

I am using Python 2.3.2 on winXP.

Thanks in advance,
Sorin Gherman


From piet at cs.uu.nl  Mon Apr  5 10:37:09 2004
From: piet at cs.uu.nl (Piet van Oostrum)
Date: 05 Apr 2004 16:37:09 +0200
Subject: Working with bytes.
References: <406EE606.4000604@yahoo.com>
	<mailman.308.1081013778.20120.python-list@python.org>
	<406f33b6$0$30963$3a628fcd@reader1.nntp.hccnet.nl>
	<wzk70vrbnv.fsf@Ordesa.local>
	<4071273d$0$132$3a628fcd@reader1.nntp.hccnet.nl>
Message-ID: <wz8yhaa3u2.fsf@ordesa.cs.uu.nl>

>>>>> anton at vredegoor.doge.nl (Anton Vredegoor) (AV) wrote:

AV> Piet van Oostrum <piet at cs.uu.nl> wrote:

>> Which includes quite a few NON-ASCII characters. 
>> So what is ASCII-compliant about it?
>> You can't store 7 bits per byte and still be ASCII-compliant. At least if
>> you don't want to include control characters.

AV> Thanks, and yes you are right. I thought that getting rid of control
AV> codes just meant switching to the high bit codes, but of course
AV> control codes are part of the lower bit population and can't be
AV> removed that way. Worse than that: high bit codes are not
AV> ASCII-compliant at all!

AV> However the code below has the 8'th and 7'th bit always set to 0 and 1
AV> respectively, so it should produce ASCII-compliant output using 6 bits
AV> per byte.

Except that the highest code you get is 0177 which is DEL, and is also a
control code. If you store 6 bits per byte that is also what BASE64 does,
so why reinvent the wheel?

AV> I wonder whether it would be possible to use more than six bits per
AV> byte but less than seven? There seem to be some character codes left
AV> and these could be used too?

Yes, you could in principle use 94 characters. There is a scheme called
btoa that encodes 4 bytes into 5 ASCII characters by using BASE85, but I
have never seen a Python implementation of it. It shouldn't be difficult,
however. 
-- 
Piet van Oostrum <piet at cs.uu.nl>
URL: http://www.cs.uu.nl/~piet [PGP]
Private email: P.van.Oostrum at hccnet.nl


From grahamd at dscpl.com.au  Tue Apr 27 19:53:15 2004
From: grahamd at dscpl.com.au (Graham Dumpleton)
Date: 27 Apr 2004 16:53:15 -0700
Subject: python under subversion (svn)
References: <xqxvfjlzgnl.fsf@cola2.ca.boeing.com>
	<mailman.43.1083077828.25742.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <dc6f5c99.0404271553.7255f07@posting.google.com>

Richie Hindle <richie at entrian.com> wrote in message news:<mailman.43.1083077828.25742.python-list at python.org>...

> You also need to decide whether your trunk and branches will live at the top
> level with the projects underneath them, or whether the projects will live
> at the top level with the trunks and branches underneath them.  Because of
> the way I'm traditionally accustomed to using CVS, I prefer to think of the
> trunk and branches as top-level concepts with the projects living within
> them.  Hence I'd do something like this:
> 
> After import:
> 
> trunk/
>   myproject/
>     doc/
>     mypackage/
>       stable.py
>       changing.py
>     test/
>       go_test

Having "trunk" at the top level and projects under it is also better when you
have multiple projects. This is because you can do one checkout of the
"trunk" root directory and get the main version of all projects in one go.
If you have the "trunk" under the project name, you have to do a checkout
on each projects trunk to get the latest of everything, which is more work.


From __peter__ at web.de  Sun Apr 11 02:34:44 2004
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Sun, 11 Apr 2004 08:34:44 +0200
Subject: Changing the default string object used by the interpreter
References: <1081577328.739901@bats.mcs.vuw.ac.nz>
Message-ID: <c5aou5$v47$00$1@news.t-online.com>

Mike McGavin wrote:

> I'm wondering if anyone can suggest a way, short of directly hacking the
> python interpreter, to change the default str class to a different one.
>   ie. So that every time a str instance is created, it uses *my* class
> instead of the built-in python string.  Is there anything hidden away
> that can be overloaded that might make this possible to do?

You could have a look at Quixote, which changes (literal) strings to
htmltext in their .ptl templates. It's done by manipulation of the AST
(file ptl_compile.py). That is the least intrusive strategy I can think of.

Peter



From ptmcg at austin.rr._bogus_.com  Sat Apr  3 22:14:11 2004
From: ptmcg at austin.rr._bogus_.com (Paul McGuire)
Date: Sun, 04 Apr 2004 03:14:11 GMT
Subject: [maybe OT] Making posters
References: <95aa1afa.0404030143.58c32975@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <74Lbc.37325$o_.316@fe1.texas.rr.com>

"Michele Simionato" <michele.simionato at poste.it> wrote in message
news:95aa1afa.0404030143.58c32975 at posting.google.com...
> Perhaps this is a bit off topic, but I haven't had look browsing on the
> net, so I thought I will try my chance here. I am looking for a
> tool taking a postscript file and enlarging it to make a poster.
> For instance I want to convert a picture taking a sheet in a poster
> made by four sheet that I can compose. Any suggestion? A Python
> suggestion would help me to stay on topic ;)
>
>
>        Michele Simionato

Try the Rasterbator (not Python, uses Flash and Adobe):

http://homokaasu.org/rasterbator/


-- Paul




From martin at v.loewis.de  Thu Apr  8 00:54:33 2004
From: martin at v.loewis.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?=22Martin_v=2E_L=F6wis=22?=)
Date: Thu, 08 Apr 2004 06:54:33 +0200
Subject: print u"\u0432": why is this so hard? UnciodeEncodeError
In-Reply-To: <cpa4qrvb529.fsf@cabernet.nelson.monkey.org>
References: <cpa4qrvb529.fsf@cabernet.nelson.monkey.org>
Message-ID: <c52lu9$j8c$03$1@news.t-online.com>

Nelson Minar wrote:
> I have a simple goal. I want the following Python program to work:
>   print u"\u0432"

As you have discovered, this is not so simple. Printing this character
might not be possible at all: If you have a terminal that just cannot
display CYRILLIC SMALL LETTER VE, then there is absolutely no way to
print the character - unless you change the terminal you use.

> Actually, I have a complex goal: I want my SOAPpy program to work when
> SOAPpy is in debug mode and is printing XML messages out to stdout.
> Solving the simple problem will solve the complex one. Since I'm using
> third party code, I can't go modify every print statement to call
> encode() explictly.

This shows the real source of the problem. SOAPpy should not print the
strings, but repr them. For debugging, repr is more reliable than str,
as it can render virtually every object.

> That seems to work reasonably well in Python 2.3 (but not 2.2!). But
> then for some obscure reason if I redirect stdout in my shell it fails.
>   $ LANG=en_US.UTF-8 python2.3 -c 'print u"\u0432"' > /dev/null
> 
> Why is that?

Python 2.3 discovers the encoding of your terminal, and will display
Unicode characters if the terminal supports them. Python 2.2 did not do
that, and the new feature is mainly useful in interactive mode.

When you redirect the output to a file, it is not a terminal anymore,
and Python cannot guess the encoding.

> The only solution I've found that really works is reassigning
> sys.stdout at the top of the script. That's an awful lot of work, but
> it's the best I can do for now.
> 
> Why is Python not respecting my locale?

It is: however, your locale only tells Python the encoding of your
terminal, not the encoding of an arbitrary file you may write to.

Assigning sys.stdout is the right thing to do. I'm uncertain why
that could be an awful lot of work, as you do this only once...

Regards,
Martin



From newsgroups at jhrothjr.com  Mon Apr  5 20:02:02 2004
From: newsgroups at jhrothjr.com (John Roth)
Date: Mon, 5 Apr 2004 20:02:02 -0400
Subject: Does Python compete with Java?
References: <8b336527.0404051337.51bb4a1b@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <1073su4etm95p35@news.supernews.com>

"kk" <kkennedy65 at yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:8b336527.0404051337.51bb4a1b at posting.google.com...
> I read this mailing list fairly often, and I am always amazed at what
> I learn (even not related to Python).  I am relatively new to Python.
> I make my living developing mostly in Java.  Python was a "discovery"
> I made a couple of years ago, and I love the language, but only get to
> use it at home for hobbies.
>
> With all the recent news:
> - ESR tells Sun to open Java, or be relegated into obscurity by
> Python, Ruby, and Perl.
> - Project mono (C# compiler) is touted to be the next great thing in
> Linux, and will be the dominate language. (by it's creator, of
> coarse).
> - This past weekend, Sun signs deal with devil (oops... Microsoft).
> Now Java "openness" seems to have taken a very large step backwards!
>
> I'd like to know if you guys think Python really has a chance to
> compete with Java, .NET, and any other commercially backed language.

That's an interesting question. I presume you mean for
market share in terms of the number of real projects, loc
and all that stuff.

At one time I would have said no, but recently some of the industry
gurus have been questioning whether the additional complexity of
static typing and other Java complexities is paying its weight as compared
to Python, especially when used in a TDD type development environment.

Another thing to consider is that while Sun has a lot wrapped
up in Java, Microsoft does not have the same attitude toward
C#. It may look like it, but their strategic direction would be
satisfied just as much by IronPython as by C# - both run on the
.NET platform, and as long as they take advantage of the native
libraries they will both do as well to lock the user into Windows.
And IronPython seems to be a pretty good performer; at least
as good as Python itself, and accordingly it beats Jython by quite
a margin.

> The reason I ask is I think it is important to have a "popular"
> well-supported Open Source language to compete with the big players.
> PHP seems to have some momentum in popularity, but I much prefer
> Python as a language.  Python has much to offer over Java, VB, etc...
> Maybe the best chance it has is to ride on the coat-tails of .NET
> (Python.NET) and the JVM (Jython).  Interested to hear your comments.

PHP has a considerable mindshare as "the language" to write
a certain class of web application. Beyond that, Perl is, I think,
the dominant scripting language, but it suffers from a perception
that it doesn't scale, and it isn't maintainable unless the development
team is very disciplined in adhering to a sane subset.

I think the next 10 years are going to see a huge shift in the
languages and tools we use regularly.

John Roth




From python at holdenweb.com  Wed Apr 14 22:19:04 2004
From: python at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2004 22:19:04 -0400
Subject: Does Python compete with Java?
In-Reply-To: <mailman.601.1081910626.20120.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.601.1081910626.20120.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <yimfc.1563$2e6.1009@lakeread01>

Robert Brewer wrote:

> Jakub Fast wrote:
> 
>>...isn't the zen of python more along the way of:
>>"the master hits the student repeatedly with a stick
>>and the student experiences enlightenment" rather
>>than "the master takes the toys away from the student".
> 
> 
> Neither is even remotely true in my experience with Python. Perl and
> Java (respectively) are over there ==> ;)
> 
:-)
> If the master has to hit the student at all, he's chosen the wrong way
> to teach. If he has to do it repeatedly, he's a pretty poor judge of
> sticks and students.
> 
In my (sadly not limited enough) experience, the masters who hit 
students with sticks usually do so for the simple reason that they enjoy 
hitting people with sticks. It doesn;t have that much to do with teaching.

> For the toy analogy, the master keeps the guns, tear gas, and nuclear
> bombs locked up, not the toys.
> 
Not to mention the macrogenerator.

regards
  Steve



From john_bradbury at skipthistalk21.com  Wed Apr 14 09:02:29 2004
From: john_bradbury at skipthistalk21.com (John Bradbury)
Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2004 13:02:29 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Making urllib2 work with proxy urls
References: <mailman.600.1081909523.20120.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <c5jcp4$18o$1@titan.btinternet.com>

I don't know if this helps, but this is what I do on Windows to connect via 
a proxy server on Linux 

os.environ["http_proxy"] = "http://192.168.0.1:3128"

John Bradbury


Tony Meyer wrote:

>> A PAC file is a script that defines a JavaScript function:
>> 
>> function FindProxyForURL(url, host) {
>>     // based on url & host:
>>     // return "DIRECT" to use no proxy, or something like
>>     // return "PROXY proxy.example.com:8080" to use that proxy }
>>

 
>> This function can get quite complex, so to use it
>> automaticly, you might need a JavaScript engine...
> 
> I looked into this a little for SpamBayes a while back (there's still an
> open bug report...) and it's unfortunately even more complex than that. 
> The automatic configuration javascript has access to some special
> functions that IE (etc) provide, so you'd need access to them as well, or
> for the OP to write their own versions of them (they're for dealing with
> IP ranges and that sort of thing).
> 
> There's quite good documentation about it around, though, so it's easy to
> start.  My suggestion would be that the OP look at the Mozilla code, since
> Firefox (and I presume Mozilla) can use automatic configuration scripts,
> and the source is somewhat easier to get hold of than the source to IE...
> 
> =Tony Meyer



From ncw at axis.demon.co.uk  Wed Apr  7 10:30:02 2004
From: ncw at axis.demon.co.uk (Nick Craig-Wood)
Date: 07 Apr 2004 14:30:02 GMT
Subject: Non-math-geek needs help with CRCs (binascii.crc32)
References: <4073c865$0$27642$61ce578d@news.syd.swiftdsl.com.au>
Message-ID: <slrnc7820b.o9j.ncw@irishsea.home.craig-wood.com>

nobody <get at bent.com> wrote:
>  1) Does anyone know if the CRC32 algorithm in binascii has a name?  There
>  seem to be a TON of different CRC32 methods; different polynomials,
>  different byte orders, different seeds, some flip the bits and some XOR the
>  result with something else.
> 
>  I've been looking around and a lot of documents (RFCs, etc) refer to ISO3309
>  and/or ITU-T V.42 (neither of which appear to be available without paid
>  access), yet are often incompatible with each other.  So unless they're
>  lying, I assume ISO3309 allows for the above variations, and specifying an
>  ISO3309 CRC32 doesn't narrow it down any.

Look here

  http://www.ross.net/crc/

and in particular here

  http://www.repairfaq.org/filipg/LINK/F_crc_v3.html

For Ross N. Williams's thoughts on CRCs.  Well worth reading IMHO.
You'll find interesting the section on the different way each CRC can
be used (reversed, reflected etc).

If you have a sample of data, its usually pretty easy to work out
which CRC it does actually use by trial and error.  You can use the
code Ross provides to help.

-- 
Nick Craig-Wood
ncw at axis.demon.co.uk


From pje at telecommunity.com  Mon Apr 19 09:30:55 2004
From: pje at telecommunity.com (Phillip J. Eby)
Date: Mon, 19 Apr 2004 09:30:55 -0400
Subject: [Python-Dev] PEP 329: Treating Builtins as Constants in
 the Standard Library
In-Reply-To: <00cb01c4260d$80b9b120$e841fea9@oemcomputer>
Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.0.20040419091544.02cc6ce0@mail.telecommunity.com>

At 08:54 AM 4/19/04 -0400, Raymond Hettinger wrote:
>Comments are invited on a new pep:
>
>         http://www.python.org/peps/pep-0329.html

I'm not sure I understand the reasoning for implementing this via a 
bytecode hack, rather than in the compiler or loading mechanisms.  I think 
I'd rather see something like:

    from __future__ import fast_globals

which would mean that globals and builtins could be considered constants 
unless declared with 'global' at the module level.  Then, the compiler 
could optimize any undeclared builtins, and the 'MAKE_FUNCTION' opcode 
could bind any constants defined as of the function's declaration.

Finally, the module object thus created would ban any __setattr__ on any 
constant that has been bound into a function.  (Since these are the only 
setattrs that could cause harm.)




From jjl at pobox.com  Wed Apr 14 18:41:33 2004
From: jjl at pobox.com (John J. Lee)
Date: 14 Apr 2004 23:41:33 +0100
Subject: Generic constructors and duplication of internal Python logic
Message-ID: <87ekqq41ya.fsf@pobox.com>

This is one of those things that I can't quite believe I've never
needed to do before.

I've got a set classes, each of which has a set of attributes that all
behave very similarly.  So, I have a class attribute (Blah.attr_spec
below), which is used by a mixin class to implement various methods
that would otherwise be highly repetitious across these classes.  I'd
like to do the same for the constructor, to avoid this kind of
nonsense:

class Blah(NamesMixin):
    attr_spec = ["foo", "bar", "baz",
                 ("optional1", None), ("optional2", None)]
    def __init__(self, foo, bar, baz,
                 optional1=None, optional2=None):
        self.foo, self.bar, self.baz = \
                   foo, bar, baz
        self.optional1, self.optional2 = \
                        optional1, optional2

So, I wrote a mixin class whose __init__ looks at the attr_spec
attribute, and uses args and kwds (below) to assign attributes in the
same sort of way as the special-case code above:

class ArgsMixin:
    def __init__(self, *args, **kwds):
        # set attributes based on arguments passed in, as done
        # manually in Blah.__init__, above
        ... lots of logic already present in Python goes here...

That immediately leads to duplication of Python's internal logic: I
have to check things like:

 -are there too many positional arguments?
 -any unexpected keyword arguments?
 -multiple keyword arguments?
 -any duplication between positional and keyword arguments?

etc.

Surely there's some easy way of making use of Python's internal logic
here?  For some reason, I can't see how.  Can anybody see a way?


John


From eppstein at ics.uci.edu  Mon Apr 12 23:11:21 2004
From: eppstein at ics.uci.edu (David Eppstein)
Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2004 20:11:21 -0700
Subject: print u"\u0432": why is this so hard? UnciodeEncodeError
In-Reply-To: <16507.21631.794319.612353@montanaro.dyndns.org>
References: <cpa4qrvb529.fsf@cabernet.nelson.monkey.org>      
	<c52lu9$j8c$03$1@news.t-online.com>      
	<eppstein-55126D.00202008042004@news.service.uci.edu>      
	<c546v4$bi5$02$1@news.t-online.com>      
	<m38yh3hhxv.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk>      
	<c5cgq3$tps$00$1@news.t-online.com>      
	<eppstein-2EEC95.17502411042004@news.service.uci.edu>
	<16507.21631.794319.612353@montanaro.dyndns.org>
Message-ID: <19795014.1081800681@[192.168.1.102]>

On 4/12/04 9:46 PM -0500 Skip Montanaro <skip at pobox.com> wrote:
> I just compared the output of "env" in both xterm and Terminal windows and
> came up with these clues:
>
>     * TERM in an xterm is "xterm".  In Terminal it's "vt100".

Well, but in my Terminals, TERM is xterm-color (so that I can get coloring 
in emacs).

>     * The xterm also defines DISPLAY for obvious reasons.

I can easily imagine doing this in a Terminal so that I can use X 
command-line stuff without having to use xterm.

>     * In Terminal a TERM_PROGRAM environment variable is defined with a
>       value of "Apple_Terminal".

This one seems clear enough, though.
-- 
David Eppstein                      http://www.ics.uci.edu/~eppstein/
Univ. of California, Irvine, School of Information & Computer Science