Tibia 0.1 DOM-based website editor

Fuzzyman fuzzyman at gmail.com
Sun Dec 12 00:31:00 CET 2004

Robert Brewer wrote:
> Fuzzyman wrote:
> > Interesting.
> >
> > I couldn't get the demo to work either by the way. A 404 error on
> > tba file.
> Bah. You must've looked after I switched fom .tba to .py
> Try http://www.aminus.org/rbre/tibia/demo/tibia.py

Yup - after the change and before you announced it I think. (I *hope*
otherwise it's me being dopey).

> > This is *similar* to a project I'm about to release, Jalopy. Jalopy
> > a collaborative website tool - allowing a team of people to work on
> > website together. It uses Kupu as an online WYSIWYG HTML editor. (I
> > assume tibia uses something similar ? if not you should integrate
> > !).
> Similar, but with important differences. Although Tibia makes use of
> Javascript to manipulate the DOM, its goals and audience are
> Tibia:
> 1. ...is a single file, to reduce deployment cost: download (wget),
> httpd.conf or IIS conf (if you're not already mapping .py to CGI),
> a tibia.conf if you don't want the defaults. Install PIL if desired,
> which is a one-liner on Debian and an installer on Win*. So Kupu's
> out. So is the jalopy approach: "login_tools, configobj, caseless,
> listquote, dateutils, dataenc, pathutils and cgiutils" is far too
> dependencies when you're shooting for zero/one ;).

Interesting. Jalopy is certainly more than one file.

Tibia doesn't appear to work with IE 6 though ? At least not on my
windows 98 internet crate :-(
This means I can't experiment properly (without downloading Firefox
over this dialup connection - maybe tommorrow). Is all the javascript
'homegrown' ? (or at least patched together yourself).


> 3. ...handles complex, preexistent web pages produced by others. Have
> your web page laid out by a pro, then give access to individual
> to your "content providers" as needed. Using the web grabber and
> tools, you can stop FTP'ing web pages to your colo completely. It
> doesn't appear to me from the Kupu demos that they can handle
> complex...but I could be wrong. I'd like to see a page like Plone's
> page being edited by Kupu. You can see it in Tibia at the demo:

It would be interesting to try it. I think the Kupu parser would choke
on anything other than reasonable XHTML (which is what it generates). I
could always run it through Tidy first of course.

As you say - Tibia aims at a different market. Jalopy is for teams
working on sharing information together, so building a website from

> > You can see a jalopy demo at
> > http://www.voidspace.org.uk/cgi-bin/jalopydemo/jalopy.py
> >
> > I'm not *sure* if that is the latest version - but I think so. I've
> > nearly finished the docs and will do a release.
> It looks good! I like some of the tools Kupu provides (and in fact,
> stole the idea for my simplistic B, I, U buttons after seeing Kupu
> the first time a few weeks ago). I'm a bit unclear on exactly where
> stops and Jalopy starts, though. You might want to make that more
> in the help file...maybe a one-liner like "Kupu does X, Y, and Z, and
> Jalopy adds A, B, and C".
> I'm looking forward to your release (with uploads! ;).

Thanks. Hopefully I'll soon get a chance to try Tibia.

The distinction between Kupu and Jalopy is quite straightforward - I'll
make it clearer in the docs. Kupu is the clientside (the editor).
jalopy is the python backend - it sends the page to be edited, saves it
when you've finished, and autogenerates the indexes.

Anyway - enough for now. All good stuff.


> Robert Brewer
> Amor Ministries
> fumanchu at amor.org

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