Xah Lee's Unixism

jmfbahciv at aol.com jmfbahciv at aol.com
Mon Sep 6 13:23:17 CEST 2004


In article <rv1hhc.mtv2.ln at via.reistad.priv.no>,
   Morten Reistad <firstname at lastname.pr1v.n0> wrote:
>In article <413af268$0$19706$61fed72c at news.rcn.com>,
> <jmfbahciv at aol.com> wrote:
>>In article <20040904.2231.57679snz at dsl.co.uk>,
>>   bhk at dsl.co.uk (Brian {Hamilton Kelly}) wrote:
>>>On Thursday, in article
>>>     <41371e5c$0$19723$61fed72c at news.rcn.com> jmfbahciv at aol.com
>>>     wrote:
>>>
>>>> In article <2mmdj0t6mjgif88en11skbo3n8uiuj46nc at 4ax.com>,
>>>>    Brian Inglis <Brian.Inglis at SystematicSW.Invalid> wrote:
>>>> >MS has been borrowing code from Unix to create a real OS: TCP/IP;
>>>> >NTFS<-ffs; memory mapped files<-mmap.
>>>> 
>>>> All right.  Now I'm mystified.  Why did they have to borrow code
>>>> from Unix?  They already had VMS.  ISTM, VMS had all of the 
>>>> above.
>>>
>>>VMS (originally) most decidedly did NOT have either TCP/IP or NFS.
>>
>>I thought VMS did get TCP/IP into it.  I don't know anything about
>>NFS.
>
>VMS was too early, and was made too politically correct.
>
>TCP/IP was NOT politically correct until around 1996 or so. 
>TPTB wanted OSI, GOSIP/Decnet Phase 5 and all that crud, until we
>Internet people hammered them. 
>
>>>Indeed, it took many years before DEC [sorry, by then it was already
>>>d|i|g|i|t|a|l] had a TCP/IP stack available for VMS --- the dreaded heap
>>>of quivering jelly created by the Eunice idiots.
>>>
>>>Before that, people who needed TCP/IP on a Vax used various third-party
>>>solutions, such as the implementations from Carnegie-Mellon (CMU) 
>>
>>Sigh!  If CMU had it, I would have assumed it got hornshoed into
>>VMS.
>
>Wrong mindset. TCP/IP was never a DEC invention, much less a D I G I T A L 
>one. 

It didn't have to be a DEC invention.  If it was CMU, we got it
shoved down our throats and up our asses.  However, I see
that the dates explain why TCP/IP didn't get into VMS.  
Apparently the protocol got good after Gordon Bell left DEC.

Since TCP/IP was in the 90s, I couldn't have heard about it
over the wall (I think I stopped working in 1987).  I could
swear that cybercurd meant something.

ISTR, the -20 types yakking about it.

<snip>

/BAH

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