Which Python web framework is most like Ruby on Rails?

Ed Singleton singletoned at gmail.com
Thu Dec 22 18:05:49 CET 2005

On 22/12/05, A.M. Kuchling <amk at amk.ca> wrote:
> On Thu, 22 Dec 2005 14:05:08 +0000,
>         Ed Singleton <singletoned at gmail.com> wrote:
> >> Yes; I've long worried about this, but have no idea how to fix the
> >> problem.  Python users largely talk to other Python users, not to the
> >> world at large.
> >
> > A good start would be for there to be a way for newbies to get heard
> > more easily.
> I don't see the connection between "Python users talk too much to
> other Python users" and "newbies don't get heard".

I wasn't particularly saying that there was a direct connection.  You
said you had been worrying about the problem of Python suffering from
the "open source dysfunction" and had no idea how to fix it.  I was
suggesting one of the main ways of fixing it.

In a little greater depth:

Open source suffers from insularity because the community places a
huge emphasis on reputation.  Reputation is necessarily built-up over
time and once people have reputation they tend to forget what it is
like to not have it. (Additionally the type of person required to
expend that much effort in building up reputation tends not to spend
much time doing other, more "normal" things).

Thus the people who are listened to the most in any OSS community are
those who tend to know less about what it is like completely outside
of the OSS world.

These people tend to naturally gather to talk to each other, and they
tend to stratify themselves, generally paying good attention to those
above them and (in better communities like this one) those on the same
level and just below.

This leads to them insulating themselves even more from "reaching out
to the real world".

Luckily there is a large group of people who are involved in the
community but have recently been participating in the real world.
They have a strong understanding of what needs to be done to "reach
out to the real world", because they themselves have just recently
been reached out to.

They are the newbs.


PS If you don't know how to reach out to the real world, then by
definition you are not listening to newbs.

PPS Some cool sayings about newbs:

"The newbs shall inherit the earth"

"The future's bright; the future's newb"

"We don't inherit the OSS community from it's leaders; we merely
borrow it from the newbs"

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