Python evolution: Unease
rnd at onego.ru
Fri Jan 7 01:59:24 EST 2005
On Fri, 6 Jan 2005, Paul Rubin wrote:
>software when I buy a new computer, or at least a new hard drive. I
>don't try to migrate system or configuration files. I just install
>the OS distro from scratch and migrate my user files.
>> There are several parts to those frustrations. But you are presuming
>> that they would have been solved for you and put on a DVD with all
>> dependency problems resolved. Ok, let's assume that. In that case,
>> an installation stub module could just as well have the solution built
>> into it as to what versions etc are needed to make the module work.
I do not like the idea of having stubs. Once I had an experience working with
CPAN (I tried to install SpamAssassin and it required some specific modules.)
"Magic" install shell, provided by Perl, upgraded half the Perl distro,
including newer version of Perl!
So, I do like Python distutils better. it is not a major problem to
install something even if it required something else. Of course,
this depends on the package authors.
>How can it work just as well, when it requires a high-speed internet
>connection which I might not have? And why is "just as well" good
>enough, given how inconvenient and error-prone it is, compared with
>just installing from a DVD once and for all? To have any attraction
>what ever, the installation stub scheme (for me at least) has to work
>"an order of magnitude better", not "just as well", as a one-time
>> To bring a large collection into version-alignment ISTM you need a version
>> freeze across too many libraries of different kinds with different
>> development schedules and resources to make it reliable.
>One part of the problem is excessive version dependence between
>package X and package Y. That's why I think there should be more
>integration within packages, i.e. the Python distro should include a
>lot more modules that you currently have to download from other
>> I realize this problem has been "solved" with various RPM and
>> app-loading methods, but I think python could wrap its solution
>> nicely. I don't think distutils and setup.py is easy enough to
>> create (at least I have been somewhat frustrated in using it
>> effectively), though it deals with a lot of what has to be done.
>Since all these schemes have failed whenever they've been tried, all I
>can think is that it's a harder problem than it sounds.
I have installed many packages with Distutils, and usually there were no
problems. If there were, they were no greater than installing some
devel library and/or adding an include directory. So, Distutils, IMHO,
Yes, probably there could be a no-brainer script to run install
directly from zip and/or tar.gz/bz2 file, but I usually check
md5, pgp sigs and look inside anyway before running something.
Sincerely yours, Roman Suzi
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