merits of Lisp vs Python

[dixkey at gmail.com]

mystilleef wrote:
> Advantages of Python:
>
> 1). More and better mature standard libraries (Languages don't matter,
> libraries do).
Right.

> 2). Multiple programming paradigms (including functional style
> programming see itertools, functools, operator modules (lambda, map,
> filter, reduce, sum etc builtins), higher order functions, list
> comprehension, blah, blah)
Either you meant this to go under "advantges of Lisp" or you know
nothing
about Lisp.

> 3). Better OO implementation. (I used to hate OO until I started using
> Python)
Better than what? Lisp's OO? Same comment as number 2.

> 4). Ultimate glue language (Plays well with C, C++, Java, .NET. nuff
> said. Bindings for almost any lib worth using, at least on *nix)
Plays well with C - correct. But who does not? C++, really, you sure
about that?
Java and .NET? Sure. Separtely. How about some of the above at the same
time?
Oh, sorry, no advatage here...
Also, when you say "plays well" you mean the necessity to hand-craft a
C wrapper, compile and debug it *in C*? Or do you mean the easy and
"pythonish" way, the ctypes thing, that even IIRC was even included in
python 2.5 (I switched to Lisp before 2.5) which allows to create the
bindings without leaving the comfort of your host language? Yeah, the
praise for ctypes was well-earned, it was a very nice development,
great for python world. Now, that said, wanna make a wild guess how
exactly the foreign-function interfaces in Lisp have been working? ;)

> 5). Clearer syntax.
Sometimes. Sometimes not.
class aaa:
  def mmm()
    ...
  mmm=staticmethod(mmm)


> 6). Better namespace management. (nobody ever talks about this, but
> Python seems to be one of the few languages that gets symbol management
> right from a users perspective)
Maybe, yes. Subject for discussion.

> 7). Easier packaging and distribution system.
Oh which one do you mean? the <=2.4 style, which is a tar.gz with a
setup.py inside, and that setup.py knows how to compile the library?
Kina like ASDF in Lisp, only not handling dependencies, recompilation
etc? Or the new 2.5+ style, that can also download stuff from the
net... Kinda like ASDF-INSTALL? (I'm using version numbers here as time
designators, mybe the new system works with 2.4, I don't know)

> 8). Ubiquity! Python is everywhere. Lisp, bleh.
You're probably right. Still, are you able to name without doing a
research three-five platforms that support python, but don't support
Lisp? And how many of them are you using?

> 9). Relatively good docs (PHP has better).
"Relatively" is a keyword here.

> 10). Fewer perceived community assholes.
I thought so before (although it didn't bother me). But this thread
somewhat readjusted my perception of the amount of pythonistassholes.

> Large community.
Right.

> 11). Less fragmentation.
Not sure what you mean here. Are you referring to multiple Lisp
implementations? Do you think they differ much more that python vs.
jython?

> Advantages of Lisp:
>
> Learning a functional language can improve your programming range and
> depth. And today, I wouldn't even recommend Lisp (it's rather archaic),
Right, you know nothing about Lisp.

> I think they are overrated, and in general cause more harm than good.
> It's the reason I find [...] programs difficult to grok, maintain
> and extend. Cos every smart ass wants to needlessly write his own mini
> language to the point of absolute obfuscation. Naturally, I'm supposed
> to be awed by his mischievous cleverness.
Substitute, for example, python metaclasses for [...]


You've got a point about the libraries though.