merits of Lisp vs Python

[Ken Tilton]

Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> On Fri, 08 Dec 2006 23:38:02 -0800, Wolfram Fenske wrote:
> 
> 
>>if Common Lisp didn't have CLOS, its object system, I could write my own
>>as a library and it would be just as powerful and just as easy to use as
>>the system Common Lisp already provides.  Stuff like this is impossible
>>in other languages.
> 
> 
> Dude. Turing Complete. Don't you Lisp developers know anything about
> computer science?
> 
> Anything any language can do is possible in any other language, if you are
> willing to write your own libraries.

I do not think you know what are macros. You are talking about 
functionality, macros are about the syntax. To achieve what Lisp 
developers do with macros you would need to write a preprocessor (and 
indeed this has been done when the need was great enough) to run thru 
the code expanding all the uses of the preprocessor language. But then 
your edit-run cycle is broken unless your IDE will let you specify a 
preprocessor and take care of seamlessly running it, but then what do 
you debug? And then you cannot just toss off a macro, it becomes an 
exercise in compiler development and now you have dozens of 
preprocessors running on each cycle. Ewwwww.

> And debug them. Let's not forget the
> debugging and testing, unless you'd like us to believe that Lisp code
> never contains bugs. Lisp developers so often gloss over that: "Oh,
> feature X is *easy*, I could write it in a couple of macros. Two or three.
> Maybe thirty. Or forty, max. And they would work the right way first time.

Do you really talk to a lot of Lisp developers, or were you making that 
up? :)

Of course implementing an object system is a big job. Your fantasy about 
Lisp programmers misses the point to which you respond: after they had 
done all the work to implement an object system, they were able to make 
it look like Lisp had always had CLOS, without changing the compiler.

Keep those fat pitches coming. :)

ken

-- 
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