A critic of Guido's blog on Python's lambda
Serge Orlov
Serge.Orlov at gmail.com
Sun May 7 10:08:23 CEST 2006
Bill Atkins wrote:
> "Serge Orlov" <Serge.Orlov at gmail.com> writes:
>
> > Ken Tilton wrote:
> >> It is vastly more disappointing that an alleged tech genius would sniff
> >> at the chance to take undeserved credit for PyCells, something probably
> >> better than a similar project on which Adobe (your superiors at
> >> software, right?) has bet the ranch. This is the Grail, dude, Brooks's
> >> long lost Silver Bullet. And you want to pass?????
> >>
> >> C'mon, Alex, I just want you as co-mentor for your star quality. Of
> >> course you won't have to do a thing, just identify for me a True Python
> >> Geek and she and I will take it from there.
> >>
> >> Here's the link in case you lost it:
> >>
> >> http://www.lispnyc.org/wiki.clp?page=PyCells
> >>
> >> :)
> >>
> >> peace, kenny
> >>
> >> ps. flaming aside, PyCells really would be amazingly good for Python.
> >> And so Google. (Now your job is on the line. <g>) k
> >
> > Perhaps I'm missing something but what's the big deal about PyCells?
> > Here is 22-lines barebones implementation of spreadsheet in Python,
> > later I create 2 cells "a" and "b", "b" depends on a and evaluate all
> > the cells. The output is
> >
> > a = negate(sin(pi/2)+one) = -2.0
> > b = negate(a)*10 = 20.0
> >
> > =================== spreadsheet.py ==================
> > class Spreadsheet(dict):
> > def __init__(self, **kwd):
> > self.namespace = kwd
> > def __getitem__(self, cell_name):
> > item = self.namespace[cell_name]
> > if hasattr(item, "formula"):
> > return item()
> > return item
> > def evaluate(self, formula):
> > return eval(formula, self)
> > def cell(self, cell_name, formula):
> > "Create a cell defined by formula"
> > def evaluate_cell():
> > return self.evaluate(formula)
> > evaluate_cell.formula = formula
> > self.namespace[cell_name] = evaluate_cell
> > def cells(self):
> > "Yield all cells of the spreadsheet along with current values
> > and formulas"
> > for cell_name, value in self.namespace.items():
> > if not hasattr(value, "formula"):
> > continue
> > yield cell_name, self[cell_name], value.formula
> >
> > import math
> > def negate(x):
> > return -x
> > sheet1 = Spreadsheet(one=1, sin=math.sin, pi=math.pi, negate=negate)
> > sheet1.cell("a", "negate(sin(pi/2)+one)")
> > sheet1.cell("b", "negate(a)*10")
> > for name, value, formula in sheet1.cells():
> > print name, "=", formula, "=", value
> >
>
> I hope Ken doesn't mind me answering for him, but Cells is not a
> spreadsheet (where did you get that idea?).
It's written on the page linked above, second sentence: "Think of the
slots as cells in a spreadsheet, and you've got the right idea". I'm
not claiming that my code is full PyCell implementation.
> It does apply the basic
> idea of a spreadsheet to software - that is, instead of updating value
> when some event occurs, you specify in advance how that value can be
> computed and then you stop worrying about keeping it updated.
The result is the same. Of course, I don't track dependances in such a
tiny barebones example. But when you retrieve a cell you will get the
same value as with dependances. Adding dependances is left as an
exercise.
>
> Incidentally, is this supposed to be an example of Python's supposed
> "aesthetic pleasantness"?
Nope. This is an example that you don't need macros and
multi-statements. Ken writes: "While the absence of macros and
multi-statement lambda in Python will make coding more cumbersome". I'd
like to see Python code doing the same if the language had macros and
multi-statement lambda. Will it be more simple? More expressive?
> I find it a little hideous, even giving you
> the benefit of the doubt and pretending there are newlines between
> each function. There's nothing like a word wrapped in pairs of
> underscores to totally ruin an aesthetic experience.
I don't think anyone who is not a master of a language can judge
readability. You're just distracted by insignificant details, they
don't matter if you code in that language for many years. I'm not going
to tell you how Lisp Cell code looks to me ;)
> P.S. Is this really a spreadsheet? It looks like it's a flat
> hashtable...
Does it matter if it's flat or 2D?
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