Thoughts on using isinstance

Bruno Desthuilliers bruno.42.desthuilliers at wtf.websiteburo.oops.com
Fri Jan 26 16:20:39 CET 2007


Matthew Woodcraft a écrit :
> Bruno Desthuilliers  <bdesth.quelquechose at free.quelquepart.fr> wrote:
>> Matthew Woodcraft a écrit :
> 
>>> Adding the validation code can make your code more readable, in that
>>> it can be clearer to the readers what kind of values are being
>>> handled.
> 
>> This is better expressed in the docstring. And if it's in the
>> docstring, you can't be blamed for misuse.
> 
> I certainly agree that the description of the function's requirements on
> its parameters is best placed in the docstring.
> 
> This is another place where the "don't validate, just try running the
> code anyway" approach can cause problems: what should you put in the
> docstring?
> 
> I don't think anyone would like to be fully explicit about the
> requirements: you'd end up having to write things like "A string, or at
> least anything that's iterable and hashable and whose elements are
> single character strings, or at least objects which have an upper()
> method which ...".
> 
> So in practice you end up writing "a string", and leave the rest of the
> 'contract' implicit. 

Python's doc (and third-part modules too) are full of 'string-like', 
'dict-like', 'file-like' etc...

> But that can lead to difficulties if people working
> on the code have different ideas of what that implicit contract is -- is
> it "a string, or anything else which works with the current
> implementation", or perhaps "you may pass something other than a string
> so long as you take responsibility for making it support all the
> necessary operations, even if the implementation changes", or is there
> some project-wide convention about how much like a string such things
> have to be?
 >
> I think this kind of vagueness can work well within a lump of code which
> is maintained as a piece, but it's good to divide up programs into
> components with more carefully documented interfaces. And it's at that
> level that I think doing explicit parameter validation can be helpful.

I'm afraid your strong ADA background shows up here... When I started 
using Python some 7 years ago, I strongly believed in strong static 
typing, and spent monthes fighting against the language.

>>> If you validate, you can raise an exception from the start of your
>>> function with a fairly explicit message.

And ?

>>> If you don't validate,
>>> you're likely to end up with an exception whose message is something
>>> like 'iteration over non-sequence',

Which is quite explicit

>>> and it might be raised from some
>>> function nested several levels deeper in.

And what's the problem ? You have a full traceback, and since you know 
which code is yours and which is not, it's usually quite easy to spot 
where you passed something wrong.

>> And what is the stack backtrace for, actually ?
> 
> I'm not sure that you intended that as a serious question,

Deadly serious.

> but I'll
> answer it anyway.
> 
> In an ideal world, the stack backtrace is there to help me work with
> code that I'm maintaining. It isn't there to help me grub around in the
> source of someone else's code which is giving me an unhelpful error
> message. Just as, in an ideal world, I should be able to determine how
> to correctly use someone else's code by reading its documentation rather
> than its source.

The backtrace is here to help understanding what went wrong, and it's 
usually quite good at it. And remember that Python has an interactive 
interpreter that let you try out how a module works - which is usually 
enough.

> I think this is a 'quality of implementation' issue. When you start
> using Python you pretty rapidly pick up the idea that a message like
> 'len() of unsized object' from (say) a standard library function
> probably just means that you didn't pass the value you intended to; but
> that doesn't mean it's a good error message. These things do add up to
> make the daily business of programming less efficient.

Strange enough, we see quite a few experimented C/C++/Java programmers 
explaining how much Python (or Ruby FWIW) improved their productivity...

> 
>>> The latter can be harder for the user of your function to debug (in
>>> particular, it may not be easy to see that the problem was an invalid
>>> parameter to your function rather than a bug in your function itself,
>>> or corrupt data elsewhere in the system).
> 
>> docstrings and unit-tests should make it clear.
> 
> I don't see that either of those things remove the issues I described.
> 
> 
>> Now if one want to have to declare everything three times and write
>> layers and layers of adapters and wrappers, well, he knows where to
>> find Java !-)
> 
> Right. But using Python there is a position between 'writing layers and
> layers of adapters and wrappers' and 'never validate anything': put
> explicit checks in particular functions where they're likely to do most
> good.

Did I say otherwise ? Now the question is "where will explicit checks do 
most good ?" !-)

> For example, it's often helpful to explicitly validate if you're going

... to use data coming from the outside world.

> 
>>> This might well lead to your program apparently completing
>>> successfully but giving the wrong result (which is usually the kind
>>> of error you most want to avoid).
> 
>> Compared to what C or C++ can do to your system, this is still a
>> pretty minor bug - and probably one of the most likely to be detected
>> very early
> 
> I disagree. What C or C++ will do, very often, is produce a segmentation
> fault.

If that's all you get, then lucky you. What's funny with UBs is that 
they are, well, undefined !-)

> That may well turn out to be hard to debug, but it's considerably
> more likely to be detected early than a successful exit status with
> incorrect output.

Don't you test your programs ?




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