My MVC critique

[James Stroud]

scott.w.white at gmail.com wrote:
> Looking at different MVC frameworks from many langauges from PHP to
> Python, I've concluded that the explosion of MVC frameworks is mainly
> due to undisciplined & unexperienced programmers.
> 
> Nobody would argue about the separation of the layers because this is
> not the problem I have with it, if anything most implementations
> emphasis separation at the wrong places.  The end solutions end up
> looking very mickey mouse.
> 
> It's been long asserted starting with Smalltalk there there be a
> separation of layers with an application starting with the view (what
> the user sees), the controller (which controls the flow of the
> application) and the model (the representation of the data).
> 
> What MVC does not emphasis is the separation of the data access layer,
> one of the most important pieces of an application.  So what is done
> with this?  For many the DAL is either encapsulated within the model
> or some toolkit that generates the SQL for them, this may lead to
> decreased overall security of a database and inefficient queries.
> 
> The catalyst for MVC frameworks on the web has been the slew of poorly
> written applications mostly in PHP & Perl , this has driven many
> programmers looking for control & consistency.  However this need is
> short sighted when people find a magical bullet MVC Framework, and do
> not place emphasis on minimization & reusability of code.  Therefore
> you end up with the same paradigm as before, just crappy applications
> separated out into pieces.
> 
> No doubt there should be separation of layers, but there also has to
> be a real dialogue about programming as a discipline & science, not as
> a craft of gluing popsicle sticks together.
> 
> There should be more discussion of architecture before a project
> starts and more code reviews and discussions in project teams.  Also
> one off projects (putting one programming on an island giving them a
> compiler/interpreter) is a great way to get a crappy application.
> 
> That being said, I presently don't use one, but I'm still holding out
> for an MVC framework that works for me and provides me power,
> flexibility and is well documented.
> 

Xah, is that you?