module confusion

[Steve Holden]

Ben Finney wrote:
> Steve Holden <steve at holdenweb.com> writes:
> 
>> You and I know that the semantics of Python names are precisely
>> those of (to use an Algol 68 term, unless I am mistaken)
>> automatically dereferenced pointers to objects of arbitrary type.
> 
> Yes. That's exactly why it's wrong to refer to them as pointers. They
> don't behave like the pointers in other languages, which are *not*
> "automatically-dereferenced", nor "to objects of arbitrary type".
> 
> It's misleading to talk about a Python name as a "pointer" without
> those qualifiers, because they're *not* implicit in programmers'
> understanding of that term.
> 
> If you want to continually refer to them as
> "automatically-dereferenced pointers to objects of arbitrary type", by
> all means go ahead. That at least *does* fit the semantics. But the
> simple term "pointer" does *not* describe them in the absence of those
> necessary and non-default qualifiers, and is misleading.
> 
In practice I am quite happy talking about "variables" as long as nobody 
is picking nits, but I am afraid that in this thread the nits are not 
only being picked, they are being boiled alive and eaten.

Consequently I feel obliged to reply in my own defense that if you 
weren't intelligent enough to recognize that description as essentially 
correct this conversation need have gone no further. I don't encourage 
people to talk in terms of pointers most of the time, but I find that 
such pedagogic devices are useful in discussing the essential 
differences between mutable and immutable values.

Neither do I normally attempt to mislead (as an examination of my record 
on this group should confirm), which is precisely why the qualifiers 
*were* attached. So kindly do not tell me it's "wrong" to refer them as 
pointers. Such phraseology can tend to be emotionally charged (for 
instance when proponents have religious feelings about their beliefs).

Fortunately programming languages and operating systems have never been 
religious issues for me. It's more like "This problem has a cross head, 
so I'll need a Philips screwdriver". I don't worship my spirit level, so 
I'm damned if I will worship LISP or Python. They can both be *jolly* 
useful, though

regards
  Steve
-- 
Steve Holden        +1 571 484 6266   +1 800 494 3119
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Sorry, the dog ate my .sigline so I couldn't cat it