Python statements not forcing whitespace is messy?

[buffi]

On Sep 15, 11:49 pm, Steve Holden <st... at holdenweb.com> wrote:
> buffi wrote:
> > On Sep 15, 10:11 pm, "J. Cliff Dyer" <j... at sdf.lonestar.org> wrote:
> >> buffi wrote:
> >>> Am I the only one that thinks that python statements should force
> >>> whitespace before and after them?
> >>> Right now this is not enforced and for an example these statements are
> >>> valid
> >>> print"hello"
> >>> "foo"if"bar"else"foobar"
> >>> for(x,y)in[(1,2),(3,4)]:print(x,y)
> >>> [(y)for(x,y)in[("foo",2),("bar",4)]if"foo"in(x)]
> >>> ...and so on.
> >> On the other hand, this is just as bad:
>
> >> [ ( y ) for ( x , y ) in [ ( "foo" , 2 ) , ( "bar" , 4 ) ] if "foo" in (
> >> x ) ]
>
> >> And I'd hate to have to remember all of the rules for what can go
> >> together and what can't, especially when it comes time to debug.  No.
> >> I don't think it should be forced, but maybe put it in PEP8 or PEP3008.
>
> >> Also, the only thing I find thoroughly disagreeable in all of that
> >> mess, is the run-ins involving " characters.  The rest are at least
> >> clear at a glance what belongs where.
>
> >> Also, would you require the following?
>
> >> my_function (swallow='European')
>
> >> Because that is just an awful use of whitespace.
>
> >> Cheers,
> >> Cliff
>
> > I believe that having whitespace around the builtin statements, and
> > having whitespace around everything is pretty different.
>
> > There would be no downside whatsoever to enforcing this, except for
> > backwards incompatibility (which is a rather huge downside but well...
> > py3k is gonna break everything anyways). There obviously shouldnt be
> > any limit to the maximum amount of whitespace used around statements
> > (due to formatting and so on), but allowing stuff like print"hello" is
> > just horrible.
>
> If you don't like it then don't write it. I've been reading this group
> on and off for about ten years and I believe your email is the first to
> point out that this is possible. Clearly it isn't something that happens
> a lot, and I don't know why you have a bug up your ass about it, as the
> Americans say.
>
> The Python philosophy is to be permissive, and to expect individual
> users to write readable Python. Since they obviously do (one message in
> ten years providing a counter-example) I think you are wasting your time
> and energy on this.
>
> regards
>   Steve
> --
> Steve Holden        +1 571 484 6266   +1 800 494 3119
> Holden Web LLC/Ltd          http://www.holdenweb.com
> Skype: holdenweb      http://del.icio.us/steve.holden
>
> Sorry, the dog ate my .sigline

I actually found out about this myself while grading student labs. I
myself didn't even know that you could write statements like this
until then, but since some students does it that means that there
should be other people out there as well that does it.

And I can't say that I agree about "The Python philosophy being
permissive, and to expect individual users to write readable Python".
Python enforces proper indentation which I think is a great idea since
I'm used to reading horribly indented code by others. I would love to
see this extended to enforce proper whitespacing for statements.

"There should be one-and preferably only one-obvious way to do it." is
a phrase that is usually considered pythonic, and I think that it
should also apply a bit when it comes to coding conventions.

- Björn Kempén