New Python 3.0 string formatting - really necessary?

Benjamin Kaplan benjamin.kaplan at
Sun Dec 21 23:33:48 CET 2008

On Sun, Dec 21, 2008 at 2:26 PM, r <rt8396 at> wrote:

> I noticed when i mentioned "self" nobody wants to touch that subject.
> There could be many reasons why...
> 0.) nobody but the 10 regulars i see here exists

if you only see 10 people, you must not be following this list very well.

> 1.) nobody cares(doubt it)

If people cared that much, they wouldn't use python.

> 2.) nobody is brave enough to question it(maybe)

Check the archives. There have been plenty of people who questioned it.
People got so bored with them that the only answer you're likely to get now
is people quoting the zen.

> 3.) most people like to type self over and over again(doubt it)

You have to type self over and over again? I don't know about the other
editors, about Eclipse/PyDev's autocomplete will add it to any function
declared within a class unless it has @staticmethod or @classmethod above

> 4.) most people here have given up on changing the BDFL's mind about
> it. (good possibility)
> 5.) this is a hot-button topic(no doubt in my mind!)

Not really. Again, if you care that much about explicit self, use another

> I think Guido's intension's are pure, but this is a major turnoff to
> new users. Do we really need to hold a new users hand that much. Does
> it really matter if they know the path of said obj. If you can't
> fiqure this out for yourself you have much greater problems.
> I do not like self, and i lamented it from day one, now it is second
> nature to me but does that mean it is really needed?? I feel i have
> been brainwashed into its usage.
> This was the reason for using indention over the bracket plague in
> python. REDUNDANCY!!! Why not dump self and make the language cleaner.
> I love python's classes, but HATE self.redundant! This really needs to
> be fixed, and you have not heard the last from me about it!!!
> 3000 would have been the perfect time to dump self and really clean up
> the language, and it's not too late, dawn is not upon us yet.

yes, it is too late. Python 3 is out and done. There will be no more
sweeping, backwards-incompatible changes until Python 4.

> --
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