TRAC - Trac, Project Leads, Python, and Mr. Noah Kantrowitz (sanitizer)

Ilias Lazaridis ilias at
Mon Feb 18 11:57:46 CET 2008

[RESEND of answer to all initial groups]

On 16 Öåâ, 15:45, Steve Holden <st... at> wrote:

> Ilias Lazaridis wrote:

> [...]> Of course I'll not stay with trac, I'll leave the sinking ship, I've
> > prepare long time ago to do so, step by step. An will migrate step by
> > step away from trac and python - toward an own implementation based
> > on...

> > perl and it's libraries.

> I'm sure you will find the Perl community much more welcoming and
> receptive to your ideas about how open source projects should be run.

The perl projects can decide themselfs if they like to adopt the most
essential things:

I do not analyze languages and communities anymore, thus there is no
need for them to 'worry', e.g. that I attemp to transform them to an
high evolutive language system.

Ruby and Python were excellent for this (Ruby = weak puppets, Python =
egoism driven).

I'll just use perl until I've implemented my own language, around 2010
to 2011, which will be most possibly close to perl (or a perl
extension, if technically possibly and no legal barriers with

Perl is available in nearly every webserver, and has very nice a
logical OO functionality (although it's not very good marketed, this
OO part). And perl keeps you highly independent, you can work with
simple systems, close to the OS.

> > Really, I don't understand the need for python. And after fighting
> > with some indenting within html templates, I dislike the whitespace-
> > syntax-thing of python again.

> Fortunately, as you have realized, you have choices and are under no
> compulsion to use any particular tool.

As said above: python (essentially it's community in a wider scope) is
an ideal domain to analyze how human egoism blocks evolution of
technical systems. Thus, python is an important educational tool.

> > Do it in perl, if you need something more 'pretty', do it in ruby, if
> > you need something more 'serious' do it in java, if you have enough
> > brain and time, do it in C++ from bottom up.

> And, apparently, do it in Python if you want to avoind running into
> Ilias Lazaridis.

No, I'll be bound to python for some time, a year or so.

And good news: as I cannot post to the trac-user group, I'll post the
topics to comp.lang.python.

(you can thank the project lead of trac, his lack of courage is the
reason that the developers get out of control)

> I have to say your approach to IT systems seems somewhat pedestrian,

The IT industry has failed to provide simple standards, systems. AI
has failed to produce intelligent systems. So, maybe the IT industry
is somewhat pedestrian, as its failure to control egoism has led to
terrible software systems.

Restarting from the beginning can give the impression of a "learning

> but I wish you well in whatever it is you are trying to achieve.

> I hope you have a good set of asbestos (i.e. flame-proof) trousers.

As said, the analysis phase is over.

But even if not: I've 'survived' within comp.lang.lisp for some months

I think no language community can be worser.



If you would adopt the open-source-processes to digital electronic
design, we would work today still with 8086.


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