2.6, 3.0, and truly independent intepreters

[Andy]

> You seem confused.  PEP 3121 is for isolated interpreters (ie emulated
> processes), not threading.

Please reread my points--inherently isolated interpreters (ie. the top
level object) are indirectly linked to thread independence.  I don't
want to argue, but you seem hell-bent on not hearing what I'm trying
to say here.

>
> Got some real benchmarks to back that up?  How about testing it on a
> 16 core (or more) box and seeing how it scales?
>

I don't care to argue with you, and you'll have to take it on faith
that I'm not spouting hot air.  But just to put this to rest, I'll
make it clear in this Jython case:

You can't sell software to end users and expect them have a recent,
working java distro.  Look around you: no real commercial software
title that sells to soccer moms and gamers use java.  There's method
to commercial software production, so please don't presume that you
know my job, product line, and customers better than me, ok?

Just to put things in perspective, I already have exposed my company
to more support and design liability than I knew I was getting into by
going with python (as a result of all this thread safety and
interpreter independence business).  I love to go into that one, but
it's frankly just not a good use of my time right now.  Please just
accept that when someone says an option is a deal breaker, then it's a
deal breaker.  This isn't some dude's masters thesis project here--we
pay our RENT and put our KIDS through school because we sell and ship
software that works is meant to entertain people happy.

>
> I'd like to see python used more, but fixing these things properly is
> not as easy as believed.  Those in the user community see only their
> immediate problem (threads don't use multicore).  People like me see
> much bigger problems.  We need consensus on the problems, and how to
> solve it, and a commitment to invest what's required.

Well, you seem to come down pretty hard on people that at your
doorstep saying their WILLING and INTERESTED in supporting python
development.  And, you're exactly right:  users see only their
immediate problem--but that's the definition of being a user.  If
users saw the whole picture from the dev side, then they be
developers, not users.

Please consider that you're representing the python dev community
here; I'm you're friend here, not your enemy.

Andy