programming by evolution?

[Xah Lee]

looking at the eXtreme Programing fuckheads's traffic history:
http://groups.google.com/group/comp.software.extreme-programming/about

for those who are not aware, it was one of the snake oil wildly
popular in around 2001.

  Xah
∑ http://xahlee.org/

☄


Jason wrote:
I just started reading OnLisp and hit this quote:

Why wait for hindsight? As Montaigne found, nothing clarifies your
ideas like trying to write them down. Once you’re freed from the worry
that you’ll paint yourself into a corner, you can take full advantage
of this possibility. The ability to plan programs as you write them
has two momentous consequences: programs take less time to write,
because when you plan and write at the same time, you have a real
program to focus your attention; and they turn out better, because the
final design is always a product of evolution. So long as you maintain
a certain discipline while searching for your program’s destiny—so
long as you always rewrite mistaken parts as soon as it becomes clear
that they’re mistaken—the final product will be a program more elegant
than if you had spent weeks planning it beforehand.

I've always heard "design is 90% of the job. You have to have a good
design in place before writing anything."

This quote from OnLisp is a radical paradigm for me (being an engineer
who designs things). My question to you is does this apply in
practice? In the real world when the rubber hits the road, can you
program this way and develop good software used by lots of people?


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On Feb 4, 10:36 pm, Xah Lee <xah... at gmail.com> wrote:

yes and no. The problem is that such opinion is not a scientific
opinion. It can't be verified or denied.

Any dynamic lang, such as Python, PHP, Ruby, Mathematica can be said
the same thing. And, prob more so for functional langs.

The langs that this cannot be done, is C, Java, where the lang is
inflexible, low level, or requires big structure that's hard to
change.

if you want software engineering books, i suggest try some books that
are based on statistical survey, as opposed to some dignitary's
“opinion” or current fashion & trends that comes with a jargon. These
type of books are a dime a dozen, every year, they come and go. The
stastical survey approach takes major understaking and cost. The
opinion type any motherfucking “guru” can write. e.g. Paul Graham has
you buy into certain concept of “hackers” fucker and claim they are
like “painters”. Certain Gabriel wants you to believe in poetry and C
is the last language. (see Book Review: Patterns of
Softwarehttp://xahlee.org/PageTwo_dir/Personal_dir/bookReviewRichardGabriel.html
) et al. Certain Gosling wants you to believe Java is the last lang on
earth that'll wipe out Microsoft (circa 1998).

Pascal Constanza wrote:
> Yes. There are actually complete software development methodologies
> built around these ideas. Google for "extreme programming" and "agile
> software methodologies".

Pascal Constanza is a Common Lisp fanatic. Note here, that eXtreme
Programing is one of the snake oil, that ran like rampant wild fire in
the industry around 2002, with many books published on it on the
supposed motherfucking hip Software Engineering practices, but today
you don't hear much of it. I haven't looked at “Agile programing”
agile my ass, but it is probably a waste of time.

... what society overwhelmingly asks for is snake oil. Of course, the
snake oil has the most impressive names —otherwise you would be
selling nothing— like “Structured Analysis and Design”, “Software
Engineering”, “Maturity Models”, “Management Information Systems”,
“Integrated Project Support Environments” “Object Orientation” and
“Business Process Re-engineering” (the latter three being known as
IPSE, OO and BPR, respectively).” — Edsger W Dijkstra (1930-2002), in
EWD 1175: The strengths of the academic enterprise.

you want to be a good programer? Study math, the math of programing,
and master the langs and protocols and tools you use. You want to
climb the tech industry ladder? get better at people, learn politics.
You want to be rich? Study business. Chances are, you are a coding
geek, and at heart you dna is not geared to be interested in politics
or business, and you'll never be rich or big ceo just because of that.

See also:
• Why Software Suck
 http://xahlee.org/UnixResource_dir/writ/why_software_suck.html

  Xah
∑ http://xahlee.org/

☄