A little bit else I would like to discuss

[Jason Scheirer]

On Feb 12, 12:04 pm, azrael <jura.gro... at gmail.com> wrote:
> Sometimes I really get confused when looking out for a modul for some
> kind of need. Sometimes I get frightened when I get the resaults. 8
> wraper for this, 7 wrapers for that, 10 modules for anything. Between
> them are maybe some kind of small differences, but to work with any of
> the modules, I have to spend 10 hours of reading the help, If there is
> any at all.
>
> I think that there should be a list on python.org of supported or
> sugested modules for some need. For example Database access. Or GUI
> Building. It is a complete pain in the ass. Let's face the true, TK is
> out of date. There should be another one used and appended to the
> standard Python Library. One that plays well with other platforms. And
> if it does't, let's make it play better.
>
> Why will Microsoft's products kick the ass of open source. Because
> anyone does what he wants. Let's say There are 5 GUI libraries
> competing against each other. Think about it what could these 5 teams
> acomplish if they would work together. Or maybe a framework for RAD
> GUI devbelopment. after 10 years of python, there is still not one
> application for GUI Building that can beat Visual Studio.
>
> Anyone I talk to says: "Oh my god, Python and GUI"
>
> There are a dozen of modules that should be, if you ask me, be
> implemented into Python. Like NumPy, SciPY, PIL. A lot of people I
> talk to, are using them. But everyone has to download them manually
> and hope that if someone is using their code, has also installed the
> needed modules.
>
> My solution would be:
> Let's make an announcement on Python.org. something like this.
>
> We need Ideas for creating the a standard library in Python for Image
> processing. Tell  us your problem. What do you think which feature
> should be implemented. Which transformation, which algorithm.
> Make a vote. This should be that not.
>
> But how to start something like that. Anyone that sees a problem that
> should be solved, becomes the project leader. Find the best Ideas and
> make a good library.
>
> It's is very good that people have a choice. But why not make some
> standards. I know that there is already a standard python library, But
> why not extending it. classify the standard library into subcategories
> like Networking, DataBase, Computation, ......
>
> One other thing. I am not looking for war on groups. I just would like
> to discuss some things that drive me crazy while using Python.
>
> This group has a lot of members. not to mention every Python Forum.
> Why not using this number of people and accomplish something great. If
> anyone of us would write 10 line of good code, it would result a very
> great and powerfull environment.

Now hold on here, Microsoft has a pretty schizophrenic opinion on GUIs
itself. Over the years you've had direct Win32 calls, the MFC
libraries, then WinForms and later WPF on .NET. If I were a C++/C#
developer new to Windows, which one should I go with? Or how about I
want to be cross-platform and start looking into Fox or QT or even
GTK?

The only difference between this and the number of Python GUIs is that
your version of Visual Studio sticks around for a few years. You could
standardize on a single version of the GUI you're using (say, WX) and
declare it to have a 5 year lifespan in your organization, install QT
builder and use that, or any of a large number of options. Don't
expect other people to make the decision for you, though, as an open
source environment brings about a plurality of options. Python has a
far broader scope as a tool for all kinds of tasks than a GUI-Centric
Microsoft development environment, and assuming every Python developer
wants to focus on making Python a vehicle of platform-specific GUIs
for producing shrink-wrapped software is a little off base.

> Anyone I talk to says: "Oh my god, Python and GUI"

Have these people needed to spend much time getting to know any one
GUI environment? They all suck in every language at first, then the
Stockholm syndrome sets in and it's not so bad.

The problem here also is that there have been attempts to get
something going that sputtered and failed (a sort of anygui module).
It's relatively easy to standardize on how to talk to a relational
database (that PEP is nice and solid), but looking at a grand unified
way of talking to so many different paradigms of GUI library, writing
bindings, testing, etc. is a much larger, less sensical beast. The
cross-platform UIs like Swing or QT all feel slightly out-of-place on
many systems because the interface elements and design decisions are
different from platform to platform.

If you want a platform-integrated GUI, use Glade/GTK/Python or QT
Designer/Python in Linux, XCode/Interface Builder/PyObjC in OSX, and
even consider IronPython and the .Net GUI stuff on Windows. Heck, I've
done some Swing and Jython and it was not as bad as writing Swing in
Java.

Might I also suggest that if you are struggling to make a proper GUI
in Python, and a GUI is what you need, that Python is probably not the
right tool for you to be using to get the job done.