Does turtle graphics have the wrong associations?

[Vincent Manis]

On 2009-11-12, at 11:36, AK Eric wrote:
> On Nov 12, 11:31 am, Terry Reedy <tjre... at udel.edu> wrote:
>> Alf P. Steinbach wrote:
>>> One reaction to <url: <url:
>>> http://preview.tinyurl.com/ProgrammingBookP3> has been that turtle
>>> graphics may be off-putting to some readers because it is associated
>>> with children's learning.
Take a look at Abelson and diSessa's _Turtle Geometry: The Computer as a Medium for Exploring Mathematics_ (MIT Press, 1986). This is most definitely not a kids' book. Chapter titles include `Topology of Turtle Paths', `Piecewise Flat Surfaces', and `Curved Space and General Relativity'. 

As well as being a very nice 2D graphics API, turtles let you explore very deep math. Of course, they also let you explore cybernetics and feedback; see some of the old MIT AI Lab reports on LOGO for that (you can find them at MIT's CSAIL lab website). For a lot of that, you actually need a robot turtle, like perhaps a LEGO Mindstorms robot. Seymour Papert (who did a lot of the MIT LOGO work) was, before his terrible motor accident, in research chair endowed by...LEGO. Hmmm... :)

Of course, some people don't like Python itself because they are afraid of snakes. 

> I used Turtle back on the Apple in the early 80's... so I personally
> have very positive feelings towards it ;)  To each their own eh?
I did my master's thesis on LOGO about 10 years before that, and I have VERY warm and fuzzy feelings about turtles :)

-- v