Newsgroup for beginners

[Grant Edwards]

On 2009-11-17, Paul Rubin <http> wrote:
> mrholtsr <mrholtsr at gmail.com> writes:
>> Is there a Python newsgroup for those who are strictly beginners at
>> programming and python?
>
> This group has its grouchy moments

You've really got to try pretty hard to create one.  But if you
want to, here's how to do it:

 1) Start by complaining that your program doesn't work because
    of a bug in Python.

 2) Python programs are portable, so don't reveal what OS or
    Python version you're using.  People will ask. Just ignore
    them.
    
 2) State that your program "doesn't work", but don't explain
    either what you expect it to do or what it actually does.

 3) Don't post the code that you're having problems with.

 4) Once people start to get annoyed that you won't post any
    example code showing the problem you're having, then you
    post code.

     a) Post lots of code.  The bigger the program the better;
        try for at least 500 lines -- but make sure that you
        leave out a few functions and "import" some libraries
        nobody has ever heard of.

     b) Post code that doesn't match the code who's behaviour
        you're describing (remember: be vague and be careful
        not to actually show real input or output at this
        point).

     c) For maximum effect try to make sure that what you post
        won't compile by inserting typos and changing the
        indentation in a few places.

 5) Once you've stalled as long as possible you want to post
    code that will comipile and run.  Now we move on to example
    inout and output.

     a) post output from a _different_ version of the program
        than what you're running.

     b) post input to and output from your program, but make
        sure that the output was generated with input
        differenent that what was posted.

     c) rather than cutting/pasting input and output, make sure
        you manually retype it into your posting --
        inaccurately.

In any other newsgroup, you'd have been burnt to a crisp and
plonked long before getting this far, but in c.l.p there are
still going to be a few people trying to help you.  Now is the
time to start making snide comments about how it would be so
much easier in VB/Perl/C++ (pick whichever one you know the
most about).

Pick a feature from VB/Perl/C++ unrelated to the original
problem and start demanding that it be added to Python so that
you can use it to make your program work.

For the final touch, forget about the original "bug" and start
to wax philosophic about how this is just another typical
example of the problems with Python, open-source, mass transit,
the designated hitter, auto-tune, people who like cats, and the
dewey decimal system. Use lots of poetic-sounding but
nonsensical metaphors.

It'll take several days and a fair bit of work, but you will be
able to produce a some grouchy responses in c.l.p.
     
> but for the most part it's reasonably friendly to beginners.
> The worst thing that usually happens is that if you ask a
> simple question, a bunch of experts will show off their
> knowledge to each other by giving you insanely complicated
> answers that you have no reason to want to understand.

That usually happens when the question is vague and incomplete
enough so that people have to guess what is being asked.  Some
people tend to guess more "interesting" questions than others.

One will also get rather arcane answers when a poorly thought
out question is answered literally.  IOW, somebody asks "how to
I do B?" when B _really_ isn't something anybody is going to
want to in Python, but if you twist the language around enough
you can actually _do_ B (even if it's quite pointless).  The
real question was "how do I accomplish A", but the poster
having incorrectly assumed the answer is B, didn't ask "how do
I accomplish A?"

They're really not trying to torture beginners, they just think
it's interesting trying to figure out a way to do B.

Even if you do get some obscure answers, others will always
figure out that what you really wanted to know was "how do I
accomplish A" and tell you the best way to accomplish A and why
B isn't what you want to do.

-- 
Grant