Newbie advice

CSharpner csharpner at
Fri Oct 30 00:36:41 CET 2009

On Oct 29, 1:08 pm, Bryan <bryanv... at> wrote:
> On Oct 28, 9:53 pm,CSharpner<csharp... at> wrote:
> > Alright, I'm not new to programming, but I'm diving in head first into
> > Python for the first time.  I'm running on Windows 7, just installed
> > "Eclipse Java EE IDE for Web Developers" and installed PyDev in it and
> > installed Python 2.6.  I've written my first "Hello World" program,
> > which simply displays "Hello World!" in the console output.
> > Here's what I /want/ to do, but don't know where to begin:
> > - Write web services in Python (I've done plenty of this in .NET,
> > BTW).
> > - Write plain DLLs (is that even an option in Python (I told you I was
> > a newb to Python, didn't I? :))
> > - Write a web app (HTML front end, Python web services called from
> > JavaScript).
> > - Write a plain old web app with Python (no web services or Ajax, just
> > plain HTML & Python).
> > - Is it possible to create a Windows client desktop GUI app with
> > Python?  How?  How 'bout a Linux GUI app?
> > I don't know how to create and write a Python project with Eclipse to
> > tell it to "be" a web service or a web app, or if what I need to do in
> > the code to make as such, no "run" it from Eclipse to launch the app
> > in a web server and launch a browser automatically.  Can I debug after
> > doing this?  In other words, can I put break points in my web services
> > or web apps and go back into the IDE to step through the code for web
> > services and web apps?
> > Also, I'm not tied to Eclipse.  I'm totally open to other IDEs as
> > well.  SharpDevelop with the Python plugin looks interesting too.
> > And finally, I'm not completely committed to using Windows to host my
> > development either.  I'm willing to use Linux too (but would prefer
> > Windows... at least to get started, until I'm comfortable enough with
> > Python).
> > TIA
> I first started coding using Visual Studio + in college (not a
> CS major).  I have now sworn off all that jazz for python+vim+*nix.
> Your thinking reminds me very much of how I used to think about
> solving problems with software.  I thought in terms of the tools I
> had, which was basically which VS templates were available, which GUI
> widget library I could buy, which MS application framework I could use
> etc.
> At some point I decided to start all over.  I started reading *basic*
> computer programming books, teaching myself C, and doing all coding in
> a simple text editor.  It was a tough period but I'm glad I went
> through it because I think about programming completely differently
> now.  Now a programming language is mostly an implementation detail.
> I design the solution without even thinking about programming
> languages or tools.  I choose to implement most solutions in python
> because its syntax describes what I want to do the cleanest, its not
> tied to a corporate strategy, it has tons of useful libraries bla bla
> bla.
> This post describes the IDS vs language divide that I crossed over:
> Python can do everything you ask in your post, and their are many
> resources to help you do those things.  I just wanted to give you some
> advice for the bigger picture.
> Bryan

Thanks Bryan.  Though my post may have misled. I feel the same way.  I
started out on text editor source editing because that's all we had
back in the early 80's with the old 8-bits.  Actually, line editor
editing is what I started on... enter one line at a time and it's
"entered"... couldn't even cursor up and down...  Before I had an
assembler, I'd write assembly programs with /machine/ code, hex byte
by hex byte.  Was pretty cryptic by today's standards, but waaay fun.
Anyway, your points are right on and I'm glad to see you have moved in
this direction, though I'd encourage you not to dismiss tools that can
make your job easier too.  Take it from someone who went through all
of it from hex byte editing up through the latest IDEs:  You don't
want to forsake the tools that can reduce your workload.  You'll be
more valuable.  You don't want to be completely dependent on them
either, of course, but I know I don't have to tell you /that/ because
you're clearly not dependent on them.

My questions were more geared towards:  I know code isn't just a "web
service" because I will it and it doesn't "connect" with a browser
(for lack of a better term) because I wish it.  There are steps to be
taken to make those happen.  I'm merely querying "what are they?".

Having said that and agreeing with your premise, I will say that after
having used dozens of languages, technologies, architectures, tools,
etc... over the last 27 years, at the end of the day, I have to
produce for the people paying me, so I won't /avoid/ "tools", for
sure.  If there's anything I can use to get my product out earlier and/
or help produce more robust code and more maintainable code for the
folks that come in behind me, you can bet your favorite, sweet text
editor, I'll use a tool that improves my productivity, if there /is/
one. ;)  I won't want to become /dependent/ on it either though.

> I design the solution without even thinking about programming
> languages or tools

Excellent Bryan!  That's the way it's supposed to be done!!!  You're
on your way.

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