Frameworks

[flebber]

On Oct 19, 7:40 pm, Javier Santana <qualo... at gmail.com> wrote:
> junohttp://github.com/breily/juno
>
> it's very easy, uses sqlalchemy as ORM and jinja2 (others can be used
> if you want) for templates.
>
> On Mon, Oct 19, 2009 at 10:24 AM, Bruno Desthuilliers
>
> <bruno.42.desthuilli... at websiteburo.invalid> wrote:
> > flebber a écrit :
>
> >> Hi
>
> >> I have been searching through the vast array of python frameworks
> >>http://wiki.python.org/moin/WebFrameworksand its quite astounding the
> >> choice available.
>
> >> I am looking at using a web framework for my personal project which
> >> isn't actually aimed at developing a website as such. However I deduce
> >> that rather than creating a gui application and screen input for data,
> >> I can use a web browser for this and have a great array of tools to
> >> format input screens and output display formats.
>
> > Yeps - but remember that a web app will have a couple limitations /
> > drawbacks, specially wrt/ handling complex UI.
>
> >> Since I will be retreiving information from several websites (usually
> >> csv files) formatting them and submitting them to a database and
> >> creating queries and printouts based on them most frameworks seem to
> >> handle this basically with ease and for any complex queries most
> >> support SqlAlchemy.
>
> >> Is it simply a case of just picking one and starting and I would find
> >> it hard to be dissapointed or is there a few special considerations to
> >> make, though I am unsure what they are?
>
> > Given your "specs", forget about monstruosities like Zope, Twisted etc, that
> > will mostly get in the way. You have simple needs, use a simple tool !-)
>
> >> Most obvious ones I am considering are Django (Of course),
>
> > A pretty good framework, but you'll loose some of it's nice features if you
> > ever want to use an alternate DB layer or templating system. OTHO, most
> > other more "flexible" frameworks just don't offer this level of integration,
> > so it's may not be such a big deal.
>
> > Note that Django's ORM, while already pretty good and constently improving,
> > is not as powerful as SLQAlchemy (now nothing prevents you from going down
> > to raw SQL for the more complex queries - and this might be better anyway,
> > since complex queries usually requires to be very fine tuned and tend to not
> > be really portable). The Forms API OTHO is a real winner IMHO.
>
> >> Pylons
> >> includes SqlAlchemy, Sql Object and templating and I here turbogears
> >> plans to sit on top of this platform.
>
> > I admit I fail to see what TG brings except for more indirection levels.
>
> >> Zope I am considering but I am a
> >> little confused by this.
>
> > Friendly advice (based on years of working experience): don't waste your
> > time with Zope.
>
> >> The are heaps of others but not sure how to
> >> narrow the selection criteria.
>
> >> How/Why woul you split Django and Pylons let alone the others?
>
> > Django : very strong integration, excellent documentation and support, huge
> > community, really easy to get started with. And possibly a bit more mature
> > and stable...
>
> > Pylons : more loosely coupled (imply: less integration), based on "standard"
> > components - which is both a blessing and a curse, specially wrt/
> > documentation -, requires a good knowledge of Python and the HTTP protocol
> > to get started with. Very powerful and flexible but this comes with a
> > price...
>
> > Now both are written by talented programmers, and both are pretty good
> > tools. I guess it's more a matter of personal preferences and/or external
> > constraints (PHB etc...) than anything else.
>
> > A couple other "lightweight" candidates you migh want to consider are
> > werkzeug and web.py:
>
> >http://werkzeug.pocoo.org/
> >http://webpy.org/
>
> >> Database likely to be MySQl
>
> > Mmmm.... If your application is "write-heavy", PostgreSQL might be a better
> > choice. Anyway, both Django's ORM and SQLAlchemy work fine with MySQL
> > AFAICT.
> > --
> >http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>
>

After further reading Django does indeed cover a lot of bases. When
looking at jinja2 and werkzueg, first thing I noticed is that they are
by the same group called pocoo. Second it shows that I must be
misunderstanding something, can I really use jinja2 and sqlAlchemy by
itself? The werkzeug documentation shows a screencast http://werkzeug.pocoo.org/wiki30/
of making a wiki and uses werkzueg, jinja2 and sqlAlchemy, why
werkzueg and jinja2 in combination?

And pylons advises use of SqlAlchemy and Mako or choices of Genshi and
Jinja2, so what is pylons adding? Might have to do a bit more reading
and watch a few more screencasts :-)