Frameworks

[flebber]

On Oct 19, 10:51 pm, flebber <flebber.c... at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Oct 19, 7:40 pm, Javier Santana <qualo... at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > junohttp://github.com/breily/juno
>
> > it's very easy, uses sqlalchemy as ORM and jinja2 (others can be used
> > if you want) for templates.
>
> > On Mon, Oct 19, 2009 at 10:24 AM, Bruno Desthuilliers
>
> > <bruno.42.desthuilli... at websiteburo.invalid> wrote:
> > > flebber a écrit :
>
> > >> Hi
>
> > >> I have been searching through the vast array of python frameworks
> > >>http://wiki.python.org/moin/WebFrameworksandits quite astounding the
> > >> choice available.
>
> > >> I am looking at using a web framework for my personal project which
> > >> isn't actually aimed at developing a website as such. However I deduce
> > >> that rather than creating a gui application and screen input for data,
> > >> I can use a web browser for this and have a great array of tools to
> > >> format input screens and output display formats.
>
> > > Yeps - but remember that a web app will have a couple limitations /
> > > drawbacks, specially wrt/ handling complex UI.
>
> > >> Since I will be retreiving information from several websites (usually
> > >> csv files) formatting them and submitting them to a database and
> > >> creating queries and printouts based on them most frameworks seem to
> > >> handle this basically with ease and for any complex queries most
> > >> support SqlAlchemy.
>
> > >> Is it simply a case of just picking one and starting and I would find
> > >> it hard to be dissapointed or is there a few special considerations to
> > >> make, though I am unsure what they are?
>
> > > Given your "specs", forget about monstruosities like Zope, Twisted etc, that
> > > will mostly get in the way. You have simple needs, use a simple tool !-)
>
> > >> Most obvious ones I am considering are Django (Of course),
>
> > > A pretty good framework, but you'll loose some of it's nice features if you
> > > ever want to use an alternate DB layer or templating system. OTHO, most
> > > other more "flexible" frameworks just don't offer this level of integration,
> > > so it's may not be such a big deal.
>
> > > Note that Django's ORM, while already pretty good and constently improving,
> > > is not as powerful as SLQAlchemy (now nothing prevents you from going down
> > > to raw SQL for the more complex queries - and this might be better anyway,
> > > since complex queries usually requires to be very fine tuned and tend to not
> > > be really portable). The Forms API OTHO is a real winner IMHO.
>
> > >> Pylons
> > >> includes SqlAlchemy, Sql Object and templating and I here turbogears
> > >> plans to sit on top of this platform.
>
> > > I admit I fail to see what TG brings except for more indirection levels.
>
> > >> Zope I am considering but I am a
> > >> little confused by this.
>
> > > Friendly advice (based on years of working experience): don't waste your
> > > time with Zope.
>
> > >> The are heaps of others but not sure how to
> > >> narrow the selection criteria.
>
> > >> How/Why woul you split Django and Pylons let alone the others?
>
> > > Django : very strong integration, excellent documentation and support, huge
> > > community, really easy to get started with. And possibly a bit more mature
> > > and stable...
>
> > > Pylons : more loosely coupled (imply: less integration), based on "standard"
> > > components - which is both a blessing and a curse, specially wrt/
> > > documentation -, requires a good knowledge of Python and the HTTP protocol
> > > to get started with. Very powerful and flexible but this comes with a
> > > price...
>
> > > Now both are written by talented programmers, and both are pretty good
> > > tools. I guess it's more a matter of personal preferences and/or external
> > > constraints (PHB etc...) than anything else.
>
> > > A couple other "lightweight" candidates you migh want to consider are
> > > werkzeug and web.py:
>
> > >http://werkzeug.pocoo.org/
> > >http://webpy.org/
>
> > >> Database likely to be MySQl
>
> > > Mmmm.... If your application is "write-heavy", PostgreSQL might be a better
> > > choice. Anyway, both Django's ORM and SQLAlchemy work fine with MySQL
> > > AFAICT.
> > > --
> > >http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>
> After further reading Django does indeed cover a lot of bases. When
> looking at jinja2 and werkzueg, first thing I noticed is that they are
> by the same group called pocoo. Second it shows that I must be
> misunderstanding something, can I really use jinja2 and sqlAlchemy by
> itself? The werkzeug documentation shows a screencasthttp://werkzeug.pocoo.org/wiki30/
> of making a wiki and uses werkzueg, jinja2 and sqlAlchemy, why
> werkzueg and jinja2 in combination?
>
> And pylons advises use of SqlAlchemy and Mako or choices of Genshi and
> Jinja2, so what is pylons adding? Might have to do a bit more reading
> and watch a few more screencasts :-)

web2py is interesting the author appears to be implying(I could be
misunderstanding this) that the web2py db ORM is equal to if not
superior to SQLAlchemy - From http://www.web2py.com/AlterEgo/default/show/150