The real problem with Python 3 - no business case for conversion (was "I strongly dislike Python 3")

[Thomas Jollans]

On 07/02/2010 09:07 PM, John Nagle wrote:
> 
>    What I'm not seeing is a deployment plan along these lines:
> 
>    1.    Identify key modules which must be converted before Python 3
>     can be used in production environments.

That depends VERY strongly on the environment in question.

> 
>    2.    Get those modules converted to Python 3.


The stdlib is there. The rocky bits are being fixed all the time. The
other important modules all have strong development communities.
Upstream numpy works with Python 3 already. (no release yet) That
enables SciPy to update, which they will do.
PyGObject is also working on Py3 support.

> 
>    3.    Put together a distribution for the major platforms (at least
>     Linux and Windows) with builds of those modules.  This
>     could be done on PyPi, which is at present is mostly a link
>     farm, not a repository.

The use cases for Python being as diverse as they are, this is utter
nonsense. Also, I myself see no benefit in making PyPI a mirror of
everything, as opposed to a useful index of packages that you may or may
not want to use.

> 
>    4.    Get some major distros, like Debian and ActiveState, to
>     include Python 3, as "python3", not as the primary Python,
>     so there are no conflicts.  (Debian already has a formal
>     policy to keep Python versions separate.)

Current Ubuntu releases include Python 3.1 as /usr/bin/python3. So does
Debian (not sure about stable at this point). I'm sure the other major
Linux distributions are doing the same thing. It's happening!

> 
>    5.    Get at least two major hosting services to put up Python 3.

Apparently, some hosters already support Python 3. Web development is a
bit of a weak spot at the moment though, and this is problematic, due to
WSGI not being quite unicode ready.

> 
>    6.    Get at least two popular end-user programs (not modules) to
>     support Python 3.
> 
>    7.    Publicize some success stories.
> 
> Unless the Python 3 enthusiasts get their act together and work much
> harder on providing an easy transition experience, it's not going to
> happen.

It's not happening fast, it probably can't, but it *is* happening.
Software distributions are including Python 3, and popular
modules/packages are starting to support it. Other software is going to
move on in its own time.