GUIs - A Modest Proposal

rantingrick rantingrick at gmail.com
Mon Jun 7 23:07:29 EDT 2010


On Jun 7, 1:29 pm, Terry Reedy <tjre... at udel.edu> wrote:
> Ant
> I agree that the current tk situation is not completely satisfactory. In
> particular, the IO facilities are inadequate and have not, to my
> knowledge, changed in a decade. Image input formats are limited. There
> is no canvas output as an image. (Output of the canvase display list as
> a dialect of postscript that not everything can read is not a substitute
> for this.)
>
> However...
> I think it important that Python come with a minimal IDE that is
> adequate for someone like me doing Python-only development. I thank the
> programmers of IDLE. So merely deleting tk/tkinter is not an option.
> Indeed, having something similar to and at least as good as IDLE for any
> candidate gui replacememt should and I think would be a requirement for
> consideration.
>
> The problem with the big gui application frameworks are that they are
> too big. The two I have glanced at -- wx... and qt -- have much more
> than gui stuff and duplicate parts of the Python stdlib and other 3rd
> party libs.
>
> As for a small gui written in Python, you seem to have ignored the link
> to pygui. Of course that has its own problems. Among others: it is
> incomplete; it ignore Python 3 (requires 2.3+ should be 2.3 to 2.6),
> which is the only place it could be added; the api sytle is not standard
> in Python (get_xx and set_xx methods instead of direct access or
> properties); and there is nothing yet like IDLE.
>
> What would be required is a Python3 GUI project with multiple contributors.
>
> Terry Jan Reedy

I STRONGLY agree with Terry here! We need a very lightweight GUI in
the stdlib that is NOT Tkinter but IS roughly the very same basic
widget set, only better!. Yes this is 2010 and any GUI should support
all the major image types out-of-the-box!! But we damn sure don't want
100mb of bloated wx killing download times of Python either!

Improving Tkinter IMO is a lost cause. We need to find a better base
and build from it. Maybe a stripped down version of wx, or something
else...? But we sure don't need an embedded TCL interpretor packaged
with Python either *YUCK*!!!

The problem is getting a large enough group of Python users to agree
on anything about GUIs. I don't think the numbers will ever be big
enough because people are only worried about getting "their preferred"
GUI into Python. But the focus should not be on getting the most
cutting edge GUI into Python --size and maintainability issues forbid
that-- no the focus should be on these qualities...

 - cross platform
 - lightweight
 - simple to use
 - not an antiquity
 - no embedded interpretors

However as i have mentioned before there will NEVER be a crowd of us
marching in the streets behind one GUI. People are just too busy to
get involved. This has to be an executive decision. The powers that be
must make the change themselves or it will never happen -- i can
guarantee that! And if this change is made python will be better off
in the end. You have my vote for change but unless someone with more
influence steps up then our laments will be but in vain.

psst, hey Guido, it's time to make your triumphant comeback to c.l.p.
We are waiting...



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