GUIs - A Modest Proposal

[Adam Tauno Williams]

On Mon, 2010-06-07 at 11:11 +1000, Lie Ryan wrote:
> On 06/07/10 10:48, Adam Tauno Williams wrote:
> > On Sun, 2010-06-06 at 17:03 -0700, AD. wrote:
> >> On Jun 7, 10:55 am, ant <shi... at uklinux.net> wrote:
> >>> My concern is simple: I think that Python is doomed to remain a minor
> >>> language unless we crack this problem.
> >> I'm curious why you think fragmented GUI choices is a particular
> >> problem for Python compared to other languages? Or why this is the
> >> main issue holding Python back?
> > The base assumption is: there is some core issue holding Python back?  
> > Nah.
> Any thought about drag-and-drop GUI builder in IDLE?

Sure; someone should write one, or several.  That isn't a toolkit issue.

But then I don't know any of the local Python devs who use IDLE;  the
IDE landscape for Python is very fragmented,  which disincentives that
happening.  

> >> .NET/C# has had preferred GUI APIs come and go and isn't exactly what
> >> I'd call crossplatform, 
> > Well, if you use Gtk# for your GUI it is probably one of the [if not
> > "the"] most cross-platform development solution for complex fat-clients.
> >> Looking at the state of other languages and their GUI toolkit
> >> landscape, someone might even come to the conclusion that having one
> >> true GUI toolkit is potentially a bad thing for a language.
> > +1  In the end the relationships with GUI toolkits is far more about
> > tool-chain and documentation then it is about language.  If there was an
> > awesome IDE that allowed RAD [of real complex applications] in toolkit X
> > then people will use toolkit X.   [Monodevelop and it's awesome Gtk#
> > support for Mono/.NET is a good example;  the tool makes the toolkit
> > east to use - people go with the toolkit].
> The problem with the current GUI toolkits is their API is designed to be
> cross-language (i18n). I'd say, keep the current GUI toolkits, make
> their API easier to use (l10n).

Which is 'just' an implementation detail.  Comparing early Gtk#
implementations with current ones - they did a significant amount of
work to make Gtk# more .NET-ish, without rewriting Gtk.  [And PyGtk is
hardly neglected; significant features of GNOME 3 such as Zeitgeist are
Python apps <http://live.gnome.org/Zeitgeist>].  I haven't had a chance
to play with it but
<http://python-forum.org/pythonforum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=9415> looks
encouraging.  But that is still far from the depth of functionality
available in .NET and Java toolchains [which, again, has nothing to do
with the specific widget set].


-- 
Adam Tauno Williams <awilliam at whitemice.org> LPIC-1, Novell CLA
<http://www.whitemiceconsulting.com>
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