GUIs - A Modest Proposal

[Martin P. Hellwig]

On 06/06/10 03:22, ant wrote:
> I get the strong feeling that nobody is really happy with the state of
> Python GUIs.
> Tkinter is not widely liked, but is widely distributed. WxPython and
> PyGtk are both
> powerful, but quirky in different ways. PyQt is tied to one platform.
> And there are
> dozens more.

Yeah I have the same problem with washing machines, I usually end up in 
one setting that works for me. But then again if Apple would make a 
washing mashing with only one button that says 'wash' everybody would be 
upset again because their favourite fabric does not have a special 
setting and users would be confused whether to put in washing powder 
before of after they have pushed the button.

>
> Whether or not we like graphics programming, it's not going to go
> away. I get the
> uneasy feeling whenever I start a new project that there should be a
> 'better' GUI
> than the ones I currently use (WxPython and PyGtk).

Perhaps the problem is saying 'GUI', sure by definition they're all 
graphical and ment for the user, but the interface is ambiguous, 
something that works well for touchscreen devices fails completely for 
voice control and is perhaps confusing for pointers or keyboard 
interaction.
The next problem is integration, do I want to make it feel like it is 
part of the overall GUI (if there is any) or do I define my own 
'standard'. With so many variables and different angles, it is no wonder 
that there are so many different toolkits. Though I have to say that 
most toolkits seems to struggle to define their own purpose.

>
> Fragmentation is our enemy. Our resources are being dissipated. Is it
> not time to
> start again? We have shown that it is possible to do the right thing,
> by creating Python3.

That was not starting again (perhaps in coding terms) but in design 
terms it was more or less glorified clean-up. Besides fragmentation is 
the natural state if anything has multiple, equally right (or wrong), 
interpretations.

>
> I ask the group; should we try to create a new GUI for Python, with
> the following
> properties?:
>
> - Pythonic
> - The default GUI (so it replaces Tkinter)
> - It has the support of the majority of the Python community
> - Simple and obvious to use for simple things
> - Comprehensive, for complicated things
> - Cross-platform
> - Looks good (to be defined)
> - As small as possible in its default form

Cross-platform for GUI is a female dog, I have no idea what the right 
solution is, but being non native all the time might not be the worst of 
all possibilities.
>
> If so, what are the next steps?
World domination and making GUI's against the law, everybody back to the 
command line, driven by either voice, virtual/real keyboard or a direct 
brain interface :-)
>
> The Python SIG on GUIs closed years ago. Should that be revived?
>
> This is "A Modest Proposal" (J. Swift). In a sense, I am suggesting
> that
> we eat our own babies.
>
All reasonable to me even if you don't build a new gui.

> But don't we owe it to the community?
That is the same as saying 'Do I owe it to myself?', well do you?

-- 
mph