Compare source code

[Seebs]

On 2010-11-04, Steven D'Aprano <steve-REMOVE-THIS at cybersource.com.au> wrote:
> And people have suggested that if your workflow leads to indentation 
> being mangled and your source code no longer running, the solution is to 
> change the workflow.

Yup.

But it strikes me as unmistakably a shortcoming of Python (and Makefiles,
for that matter) that code for them can't survive a common failure mode
that everything else I use can.

> What burden?

The burden of using different tools because suddenly the version of vi
I've been using since 1990 is magically "broken" even though it's never
caused a problem before.

> You keep talking about this burden of not-having-to-type-
> braces, but I don't see any burden, and nor do the majority of Python 
> programmers.

Of course not.  Most of the people who find it annoying *don't use Python*.

Of the programmers I know who don't use Python, 100% have cited the annoyance
value *to them* of the whitespace thing as the main reason they don't.  Of
the programmers I know outside this newsgroup who *do* use Python, 100% have
said the whitespace thing is annoying and they wish Python didn't have it,
but they have to use Python for some externally-imposed reason, so they put
up with it.

Outside of people who seem to be deeply emotionally invested in insisting
that it is never, at all, in ANY way, for ANY person, annoying, it seems
to be pretty consistent to observe that, benefits or no benefits, it has
some kind of non-zero annoyance value.

Other languages I use are mostly amenable to the development of tools
to automatically indent code.  Makefiles and Python are the only two
exceptions... And if I were an advocate for a language, the fact that it's
lumped itself in with Makefiles in a significant way would be a weakness
I'd feel obliged to be up front about.  :)

The underlying issue is this:

* Not having to type braces:  Yay!
* Having structure map to functionality:  Some people quite like it, and
  certainly there exists a class of theoretical errors which it prevents.
* Not being able to write an auto-indenter, ever, because it is by
  design theoretically impossible:  Annoying.

I guess if people could show me some of these errors in other languages
where indentation is misleading and bugs resulted, I'd be more persuaded
by the second point there.  As is, I find the brittleness more annoying
than I've ever found braces or 'end' or whatever.  It's not annoying
enough for me to refuse to use the language when there are other
compelling reasons to, but it's certainly annoying enough that I'll never
use Python for something where I have unfettered choice of language.  It's
less fun to program in, for me.

-s
-- 
Copyright 2010, all wrongs reversed.  Peter Seebach / usenet-nospam at seebs.net
http://www.seebs.net/log/ <-- lawsuits, religion, and funny pictures
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fair_Game_(Scientology) <-- get educated!
I am not speaking for my employer, although they do rent some of my opinions.