Python education survey

[Carl Smith]

On Dec 25, 5:44 pm, Rick Johnson <rantingrickjohn... at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Dec 19, 9:51 pm, Raymond Hettinger <raymond.hettin... at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> > Do you use IDLE when teaching Python?
> > If not, what is the tool of choice?
>
> I believe IDLE has the potential to be a very useful teaching tool and
> even in it's current abysmal state, i find it to be quite useful.
>
> > Students may not be experienced with the command-line and may be
> > running Windows, Linux, or Macs.  Ideally, the tool or IDE will be
> > easy to install and configure (startup directory, path, associated
> > with a particular version of Python etc).
>
> Why install an IDE when IDLE is already there? Oh, yes, IDLE SUCKS. I
> know that already. But this revelation begs the question... Why has
> this community allowed IDLE to rot? Why has guido NOT started a public
> discussion on the matter?
>
> > Though an Emacs user myself, I've been teaching with IDLE because it's
> > free; it runs on multiple OSes, it has tooltips and code colorization
> > and easy indent/dedent/comment/uncomment commands, it has tab
> > completion; it allows easy editing at the interactive prompt; it has
> > an easy run-script command (F5); it has direct access to source code
> > (File OpenModule) and a class browser (Cntl+B).
>
> Yes, IDLE has all the basic tools anyone would need. Some people
> complain about a debugger, but i never use a debugger anyway. I feel
> debuggers just wreaken your debugging skills.
>
> > On the downside, some python distros aren't built with the requisite
> > Tcl/Tk support;
>
> And who's fault is that?
>
> > some distros like the Mac OS ship with a broken Tcl/Tk
> > so users have to install a fix to that as well; and IDLE sometimes
> > just freezes for no reason.
>
> And who's fault is that?
>
> >  [IDLE] also doesn't have an easy way to
> > specify the startup directory.
>
> Are you kidding me? That could be fixed so easily!
>
> > If your goal is to quickly get new users up and running in Python,
> > what IDE or editor do you recommend?
>
> IDLE, of course. But NOT in its current state.
>
> Why would myself (or anyone) go to the trouble of downloading third
> party IDEs when IDLE is just waiting there for us to use? I for one,
> like to use tools that have open source code.  And what is a better
> Python IDE than a Python IDE written in PYTHON? I ask ya?
>
> Also, what is the purpose of this thread Raymond? Are you (and others)
> considering removing IDLE from the source distro?
>
> You know. Many folks in this community have known for a long time how
> much i love IDLE, but at the same time how much i loath it's atrocious
> code base. I also know for a fact, that many "movers and shakers"
> within this community simultaneously use IDLE, and want to see IDLE
> code improved. However. None of these fine folks have taken the time
> to contact me privately so we can discuss such an evolution. Why is
> that? It boggles the mind really.

Do people seriously use IDLE? I thought it was just there for
scratchers, like turtle.