Python education survey

[Eelco]

On Dec 27, 6:53 pm, Lie Ryan <lie.1... at gmail.com> wrote:
> On 12/27/2011 10:41 PM, Eelco wrote:
>
>
>
> > *Your suggestion of VIM is especially objectionable. Though I am sure
> > it is a great tool to you, the subject here is beginner education.
> > Just because it is a good tool for you, does not make it a good tool
> > for a beginner.
>
> Before using VIM, I used to use gedit (and still do, though not as often
> now); I don't think I've ever had any problem with not using a full
> blown IDE with Python. I generally don't miss not using an IDE since
> Python doesn't have the tradition of using overly verbose names like in
> Java.

As for my personal use, I very much prefer an IDE. I hate having only
crappy code completion, for starters, and I like a good integrated
debugger. But then again, im spoiled I suppose coming from C#. On the
other hand, ive worked for many years using a very minimal notepad
+command line compilation setup as well.

But I can very well imagine that people are perfectly happy with more
hackerish tools. That is, once they have gotten past the learning
curve.

> I'm personally of the opinion that beginners generally should start with
> a simple programmer text editors (gedit is a good example). Firstly, you
> don't want to confuse beginners with IDE vs language features; secondly,
> at the size of the problem beginners typically had, they don't **need**
> 95% of those features; and if you teach beginners powerful IDE features
> too early, by the time their problem gets big enough that the IDE
> features would actually help, they'd already forgotten about them.

A good IDE should get out of your way if you want it to. I like
pycharm in this regard; click an x or two, and you are facing just
your text editor and console/output window.

Generally, I think a non-cluttered IDE is ideal for a beginner. You
dont have to explain to them how to open a file, and if you tell them
to hit the 'play' button to start running their code (not a hard
concept to grasp or remember either) they are good to start hacking.
Also, I think code completion is a blessing to beginning programmers.
IPython is good in that regard; until you switch to editing files,
where your choice is between notepad, or configuring an other editor
you dont want your class to spend any time on, and youll end up with
something that still doesnt do much more than syntax highlighting.