WxPython versus Tkinter.

Littlefield, Tyler tyler at tysdomain.com
Tue Jan 25 09:11:10 EST 2011


 >Wow! I, I, I, I... is there a sentence that doesn't talk about your 
self interests?
It is clear you have been taking lessons from RR; the word I does not 
convey self interest, in fact, it is the best word suited to speaking of 
oppinions (which is all that these are), in the first person. Lets move 
on, shall we?
 >You haven't downloaded any inaccessible program made with Tkinter, you 
didn't have any problems, You can create an accessible program if you 
can't find
 >an accessible one, you care only to please the other for working with 
you and so on.
No. I said, I can find a program that is accessible, if I find one that 
isn't. Totally different from making one, and any user at all has said 
power. Granted, there are conditions where this doesn't work, but my 
idea of -fixing- TKInter would solve a lot of problems.
 >Don't you care that most programmers don't know about accessibility 
and they just don't create accessible programs not because they don't 
want, but because
 >they don't know about this thing?
Of course I do. Non accessibility hurts you, as much as me, as much as 
anyone else when I have to take time away to try to make a program 
accessible. But, here is the thing; I have suggested work on TKInter to 
make such programs accessible, and I am perfectly willing to 
participate, as much as time allows, in such work. You are trying to 
make me come across as some evil cruel person because I don't submit to 
"hit them over the head with the hammer that is the ADA and force 
compliance," but rather I want to work with someone. At the end of the 
day, you lose, I win in general. People have made comments about the 
fact that all you did was parrot the evilness of TKInter to many 
threads, and now you've made comments on laws in existance that will 
help us. If you will note, no one even blinked at said laws. Now, the 
idea of fixing the problem (and not just switching libraries out of the 
STDLib, because as Ixokai already pointed out in another post, that 
won't happen), will get us much farther; whether or not Python, or 
anything else uses TKInter, it will be accessible, with some work put 
into talking to the community and I'll probably jump in the trenches 
myself and hammer out some code.
 >Retorical question... It is obviously that you don't care.
Nope. I, as a blind person obviously don't care. Which is why I've spent 
so much time trying to push the idea of fixing TKInter. what a horrible 
horrible person I am.
 >Ok, you don't care. There are very many like you. But do you think 
that this is the right atitude? To not care about the >others at all but 
only about your selfish interests because the alternative is a loss of 
time?
A loss of time? Where. I am not a proponent of forcing a lib into the 
STDLib while said library currently has problems (RR's segfaults, I'm 
"looking" at you). I know and accept the fact that Python is not going 
to become unstable with a library, in the hopes that some day people 
will start using wx since it's just there and voila, everything will be 
peaches and cream for us screen-reader using folks.
 >Can't you see that this isn't normal? Can't you see that some people 
don't even believe you that you are blind but you >still promote the 
non-accessible programs?
RR's non-belief of me being blind or otherwise was to help his own 
argument, not because I'm promoting anything.
 >But there could be an explanation for this too. You might look great 
in your gang if the other blind people you know are >not able to use 
some programs but you are able to create your own which are accessible. 
You will appear really special.
Yep. I'm talking about fixing a library to be more accessible so I can 
look great in my "gang" of sighted people I try so hard to blend in 
with, by daring to use such words as "watch."

You mentioned the millions of people that I may help by quoting 
accessibility laws at, and here I say, you over estimate your self 
importance. If I went into my school and started yelling about the ADA, 
I would possibly get somewhere, but they would end up doing the bear 
minimum in order to comply with such laws. As a result, I don't really 
get what I want, and someone walks away from the encounter with the idea 
that all the blind people are the same, which may be a problem for 
someone who wishes to get employed.

Now, on the other hand, if I were to walk into somewhere, say "hey, this 
is really unaccessible, and this is how we can fix it," from my 
experience, 9 times out of ten it will get fixed. That other 10% is 
where the ADA and other such laws come in. Through this encounter, 
someone walks away with a lot more respect for me, and if something 
should come up later, I can generally go talk to them.

You have this "pity me," "I don't want to be a part of the sighted 
community," attitude, which will get you nowhere. If you limit yourself 
(by not doing such things as watching tv, or using phones with 
touchpads), that is -your- own fault, and no one elses. I say this 
because I used to be the same way, and I can garentee, if you give it 
time and start being a lot different with people, rather than just 
promoting your ADA laws and hiding behind your wall you've put up to 
save you from having to deal with things, you will be much happier. My 
preaching done with, I'd like to urge everyone to put this in a bit of 
perspective; essentially, what I don't want is someone walking away with 
Octavian's attitude as a stariotype for us all.



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