In messageBarna wrote:Can???t understand the point to it. ???GUI automation???
Roberto Salazar
teopachoani at gmail.com
Mon Mar 21 15:48:09 EDT 2011
Oh don't be obtuse, dude. GUI automation is much used for webbots and data scraping bamong other things. Why do you think so many sites are starting to use that irritating "Captcha" technology? To block GUI-manipulating scripts, of course. Though, for blind people Captcha makes navigation on some sites quite difficult if not impossible. With scriptable OSes, sites and browsers you can grab a lot of data.
> On Monday, August 09, 2010 8:10 AM Alex Barna wrote:
> I know that this question has been asked for several times, but it
> surprises that there is no tool under very active development and the
> community activities are very low (mailing list posts).
>
> All the tools listed in:
>
> http://pycheesecake.org/wiki/PythonTestingToolsTaxonomy#GUITestingTools
>
> Comparing with AutoIt (www.autoitscript.com), it has tens to hundreds
> of posts everyday. AutoIt uses a proprietary BASIC -like language, and
> to be honest, I do not like it and I prefer a Pythonic solution.
>
> pywinauto seems to be the best choice but the community has been very
> low also. The same happens in pyguiunit, pyAA, WATSUP, all development
> seem to be ceased.
>
> So what happens to this field (Windows GUI automation) ?
>> On Monday, August 09, 2010 11:56 PM alex23 wrote:
>> Either someone cares enough to do something about it, or everyone just
>> defaults to using AutoIT-like tools.
>>
>> Which Python implementation are you planning on contributing to?
>>> On Tuesday, August 10, 2010 4:05 AM Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
>>> In message
>>> Barna wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> Can???t understand the point to it. ???GUI automation??? is a contradiction in
>>> terms, because a GUI is designed for use by humans to do manual tasks, not
>>> ones that can be automated.
>>>
>>> Tasks that can be automated are most easily, flexibly, and above all
>>> reliably, done via command lines and other such scripting interfaces.
>>>> On Tuesday, August 10, 2010 4:52 AM Chien wrote:
>>>> There were a lot of development but then all ceased, except pywinauto
>>>> has a final release in April, but really low community activity. Does
>>>> it mean AutoIt has much more advantages than Python tools (which I
>>>> have not realized) ?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I'd say pywinauto. it is more O-O than the other tools. Excerpt from
>>>> its homepage (http://pywinauto.openqa.org/):
>>>>
>>>> <quote>
>>>> Most other tools are not object oriented you end up writing stuff
>>>> like:
>>>>
>>>> window =3D findwindow(title =3D "Untitled - Notepad", class =3D
>>>> "Notepad")
>>>> SendKeys(window, "%OF") # Format -> Font
>>>> fontdialog =3D findwindow("title =3D "Font")
>>>> buttonClick(fontdialog, "OK")
>>>>
>>>> I was hoping to create something more userfriendly (and pythonic):
>>>>
>>>> win =3D app.UntitledNotepad
>>>> win.MenuSelect("Format->Font")
>>>> app.Font.OK.Click()
>>>> </quote>
>>>>
>>>> Alex Barna
>>>>> On Tuesday, August 10, 2010 6:25 AM Alex Barna wrote:
>>>>> to it. =93GUI automation=94 is a contradiction in
>>>>> t
>>>>>
>>>>> Automating GUI is for testing.
>>>>>> On Tuesday, August 10, 2010 8:49 AM Steven D'Aprano wrote:
>>>>>> There have been plenty of systems for recording user actions and playing
>>>>>> them back. They're very useful at times.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Macro_recorder
>>>>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Macro_(computer_science)
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> You might even have heard of one of them... Emacs. I hear that it is
>>>>>> moderately popular among Linux users.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> http://www.linuxjournal.com/article/3769
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> That's a matter of opinion, and it clearly depends on the nature of the
>>>>>> GUI and CLI, as well as what task you are trying to automate.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Steven
>>>>>>> On Tuesday, August 10, 2010 3:13 PM News123 wrote:
>>>>>>> On 08/10/2010 12:25 PM, Alex Barna wrote:
>>>>>>> And sometimesfor working around SW, whch has no cli or other interface
>>>>>>> and should be automated
>>>>>>>> On Tuesday, August 10, 2010 3:23 PM Martin P. Hellwig wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 08/10/10 20:13, News123 wrote:
>>>>>>>> That and when you are forced using a gui and need to 'copy and paste'
>>>>>>>> between two programs that have no native bridge except for the one that
>>>>>>>> is between the keyboard and chair, then it is nice to know that there is
>>>>>>>> a way of automating it.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>> mph
>>>>>>>>> On Tuesday, August 10, 2010 10:57 PM Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
>>>>>>>>> In message
>>>>>>>>> Barna wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> But the most egregious GUI problems are going to be with humans being unable
>>>>>>>>> to figure out how to do something, am I right? How are you going to uncover
>>>>>>>>> those problems, except by testing with real people? Automated testing isn???t
>>>>>>>>> going to do it.
>>>>>>>>>> On Tuesday, August 10, 2010 10:59 PM Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> Who would design software in such a brain-dead way?
>>>>>>>>>>> On Tuesday, August 10, 2010 11:06 PM Grant Edwards wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> Automated GUI testing is not intended to uncover those sorts of
>>>>>>>>>>> problems in GUI design. Automated GUI intended to uncover problems in
>>>>>>>>>>> the underlying program functionality, and is used mainly for
>>>>>>>>>>> regression testing to insure that changes made to a program did not
>>>>>>>>>>> cause any unintended changes in program behavior.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Automated GUI testing often is not even being used to test the program
>>>>>>>>>>> whos GUI is being automated. it is often used to test _other_ programs
>>>>>>>>>>> with which the GUI-automated-program interacts.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>> Grant
>>>>>>>>>>>> On Tuesday, August 10, 2010 11:08 PM Grant Edwards wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> In my experience, almost everybody who designes apps for MS Windows.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>>> Grant
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Tuesday, August 10, 2010 11:11 PM Robert Kern wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2010-08-10 21:57 , Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Possibly, but it is not the *only* important problem. Automated GUI testing is
>>>>>>>>>>>>> usually a form of regression testing. You want to make sure that the behavior of
>>>>>>>>>>>>> parts of the GUI did not change when you made what should be unrelated
>>>>>>>>>>>>> modifications to the code.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Robert Kern
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> "I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma
>>>>>>>>>>>>> that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had
>>>>>>>>>>>>> an underlying truth."
>>>>>>>>>>>>> -- Umberto Eco
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Tuesday, August 10, 2010 11:12 PM Robert Kern wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2010-08-10 21:59 , Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> People who are not being paid for a CLI or other interface.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Robert Kern
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> an underlying truth."
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -- Umberto Eco
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Tuesday, August 10, 2010 11:45 PM Ben Finney wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo at geek-central.gen.new_zealand> writes:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You asked to understand the point of GUI automation. Alex responded with
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> one (there may well be others) very good point of GUI automation:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> automated testing of the GUI's behaviour. What you raise here is not the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> point of GUI automation.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Is you understanding of the point of GUI automation improved?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> \ ???I turned to speak to God/About the world's despair; But to |
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> `\ make bad matters worse/I found God was not there.??? ???Robert Frost |
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _o__) |
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ben Finney
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Wednesday, August 11, 2010 12:51 AM Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> In message <mailman.1936.1281496277.1673.python-list at python.org>, Robert
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Kern wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Again, that???s something that primarily affects real users, when they find
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> some function is no longer in the place where they expect it to be. You have
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to test with real users to find out what they think of this sort of thing.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Wednesday, August 11, 2010 12:52 AM Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> That ???underlying??? functionality has nothing to do with the GUI, then. Why
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> not test it directly, rather than go through the GUI?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Again, this sounds like it has nothing to do with the GUI per se.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Wednesday, August 11, 2010 1:00 AM Ben Finney wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo at geek-central.gen.new_zealand> writes:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Because that behaviour can be different when tested in a way that
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> does not involve using the actual program's interface.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The GUI is part of the program's behaviour, remember, and just about any
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> non-trivial GUI program will have quite complex behaviour specifically
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in its GUI. Is the concept of testing the actual program behaviour
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> really foreign to you? If not, what part of this concept is causing you
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> difficulty?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> \ ???Two paradoxes are better than one; they may even suggest a |
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> `\ solution.??? ???Edward Teller |
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _o__) |
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ben Finney
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Wednesday, August 11, 2010 2:09 AM Grant Edwards wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Automated testing can detect when some function is no longer where it
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> used to be.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Again, nobody's talking about using automated testing to figure out
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> what users think. We're talking about using automated testing to make
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> sure that rev 3.5 acts the same what that rev 3.4 did when you push
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> button X or select menu option Y.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Grant
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Wednesday, August 11, 2010 2:12 AM Grant Edwards wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Because in many programs _there_is_no_other_way_to_test_it_directly_.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Yes, that sucks. In the real world most programs suck. You've still
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> got to test them.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Exactly! That's what we have been trying to explain. Automating a GUI
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is not done to test how well the GUI works for real users. it is done
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> mainly for two purposes:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 1) Regression testing to make sure that the GUI's behavior (good,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> bad, or indifferent) has not changed since the previous revision.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 2) To test the functionality underlying the GUI.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Wednesday, August 11, 2010 2:50 AM Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> That???s the trouble. What???s the point of a GUI, then?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Wednesday, August 11, 2010 3:27 AM Ben Finney wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo at geek-central.gen.new_zealand> writes:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I have no idea what you are asking any more. The above response seems like
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a total non-sequitur.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> But the above exchange convinces me that you are asking it in the wrong
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> forum. This no longer has anything at all to do with Python in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> particular.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> \ ???Books and opinions, no matter from whom they came, if they are |
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> `\ in opposition to human rights, are nothing but dead letters.??? |
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _o__) ???Ernestine Rose |
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ben Finney
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Wednesday, August 11, 2010 5:47 AM Jean-Michel Pichavant wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Grant Edwards wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Yep, as an example, I worked on a cardio medical system (X ray). In
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> order to get to the market, such system must prove its robustness, part
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of the proof was about chaining thousands of patients without a crash
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nor X ray failure.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> This is where GUI automation comes in. The tool was simulating the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> interaction between a doctor and the system application GUI and was
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> working 24/7.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> JM
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Wednesday, August 11, 2010 8:57 AM Tim Harig wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It faided away because automation based on on mouse clicks, and to a lesser
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> extent key injection, is very fragile. GUIs are subject to changing in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ways that are unpredictable and difficult to detect. Some GUI widget sets
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> provide some programatic way to access the GUI items directly for testing
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and debugging purposes; but, that is not always available in the final
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> product.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> There are better ways of automating web site interactions. You can other
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> generate the GETS and POSTS directly or you can use import the browsers
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> through COM/XPCOM and manipulate the pages using the browser's DOM object.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Wednesday, August 11, 2010 10:09 AM Grant Edwards wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> OK, now you are just trolling.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <plonk>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Grant Edwards grant.b.edwards Yow! I guess you guys got
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> at BIG MUSCLES from doing too
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> gmail.com much STUDYING!
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Wednesday, August 11, 2010 10:20 AM Steven D'Aprano wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Are you trolling, or do you really fail to understand that the concepts
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of *testing a GUI's functionality* and *asking users what sort of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> interface they want* are independent concepts?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Let's put it this way...
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "Nobody is talking about using automated testing to find out what command
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> line switches users want on their command line tools."
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "That's the trouble. What's the point of a CLI, then?"
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Do you see the difference now?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Steven
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Wednesday, August 11, 2010 11:27 AM Steven D'Aprano wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Or to put it another way... automated tests are not useful for usability
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> testing, regardless of whether one is testing a GUI app or a CLI app.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I would like to point out that automating GUIs is not just done for
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> testing purposes, but has other reasons as well. Probably the most common
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is for the same reason any automation is done, be it writing a script or
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> building a robot: to reduce the amount of manual effort needed to do some
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> repetitive or frequent task.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Mouse and keyboard event recording software used to be one of the killer
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> apps for power users back in the days of classic Apple Mac and early
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> versions of Windows. I am not entirely sure why they have faded away... it
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> seems to have left an empty niche, for power users who are not comfortable
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> writing shell scripts, batch files or messing about with DBUS, but still
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> want to automate repetitive tasks.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Another common use is automating interactions with web sites via
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> mechanize.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Steven
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Wednesday, August 11, 2010 12:53 PM Dennis Lee Bieber wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 11 Aug 2010 11:27:49 GMT, Steven D'Aprano
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au> declaimed the following in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> gmane.comp.python.general:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <heh> it is not often one needs to be able to hold down five keyboard
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> keys, AND while holding the keys, eject the floppy, do a mouse click,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> reinsert floppy.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> That was the sequence to access one of the easter eggs on the Amiga
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (OS 1.2 -- the left and right shift and alt keys were considered
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> separate keys to the low-level event system)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.amigahistory.co.uk/messages.html
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'd think the main problem with such automation tools is their
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> sensitivity to small changes in the environment; a minor window
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> positioning change and all the mouse based clicks could need to be
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> re-recorded/edited. Better to design the application (after all, if one
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> needs regression testing one likely has access to the source code) to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> accept some sort of IPC access to the functions of said program... (You
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> can no doubt tell that after 20 years I am still longing for the Amiga's
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ARexx ports to be duplicated on other operating systems)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Wulfraed Dennis Lee Bieber AF6VN
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wlfraed at ix.netcom.com HTTP://wlfraed.home.netcom.com/
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Wednesday, August 11, 2010 3:36 PM CM wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> This is a little late, but you might want to check out Sikuli. Search
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for it in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> this forum, there is a long thread about it. It might be a new useful
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> way to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> write GUI tests. I have no real idea, though.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Che
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Wednesday, August 11, 2010 6:45 PM Alex Barna wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I am afraid that my first post has not been understood correctly and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> most of the following posts are OT, as Ben Finney indicated.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The GUI automation has a long history, perhaps since the first
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> windowing system was invented. For years I have been doing this using
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> several different technologies/languages. But to my surprise, this
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ares is not very *cultivated* by Pythonistas. Many projects (see the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> link in my first post) have lost the love of their maintainers and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> have not been updated for years.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Except one, pywinauto, which has a recent release in April. However,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the community activity (mailing list) is very low, website and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> documentation have not been updated for long also. All this freaks me
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> out on adopting a technology like this :
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> - is there istill anyone using it ?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> - what if I encounter a problem but no body replies me in the mailing
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> list ?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Comparing with the rival AutoIt, using a BASIC-like language, which I
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> do not like at all, has hundreads of post in the users' forum everyday.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It makes me doubt: is Python the correct language to do GUI
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> automation ?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> P.S.: hopefully it has been clarified, my original intention of the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> post is not to debate/discuss:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> - *why* automating GUI ?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> - whether GUI/CLI is better.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> - the points GUI or CLI is designed for.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Obvious they are all OT.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Alex Barna.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Wednesday, August 11, 2010 8:18 PM Ben Finney wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [???]
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Your questions are definitely on-topic here. However, you might want to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> make use of the ???testing-in-python??? forum
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <URL:http://lists.idyll.org/listinfo/testing-in-python> where your
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> questions are even *more* on-topic :-)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> \ ???We are stuck with technology when what we really want is just |
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> `\ stuff that works.??? ???Douglas Adams |
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _o__) |
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ben Finney
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