OT: Entitlements [was Re: Python usage numbers]

Ian Kelly ian.g.kelly at gmail.com
Sat Feb 18 08:28:59 CET 2012

On Fri, Feb 17, 2012 at 6:13 PM, Rick Johnson
<rantingrickjohnson at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Mon, Feb 13, 2012 at 7:23 PM, Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>> On Mon, Feb 13, 2012 at 2:01 PM, Rick Johnson
>> I make a middle-class income and do not feel that I am anywhere near
>> being "enslaved" by my income taxes, which amount to less than 10% of
>> my gross income after deductions and credits.
> Ten percent?!?! You pay less income tax by percentage than most rich
> folks, including Mitt Romney! I envy you since you must be one of the
> lucky folks who ONLY pay income tax.

Yes, I feel terribly sorry for Mitt Romney.  I can't imagine what it
must be like to earn $27 million and only be allowed to keep $23
million of it.  Why, that's barely enough to buy a private island in
Dubai!  I think it says a lot about how far we've come as a nation,
though, that somebody who's practically a slave to the IRS can be a
front-runner to be elected President.

The 10% figure included Medicare, but not Social Security or other
taxes.  That's because health care coverage (you know, what we've been
talking about) is primarily funded by income tax, Medicare, and excise
taxes on certain kinds of treatments.  Most other taxes go to fund
specific unrelated programs.  If I were to add everything up, it would
probably come to around 30%, which still doesn't bother me, in part
because I know that it comes back to benefit the society I live in,
and by extension me, in one way or another..

> I guess you never purchase
> ANYTHING or live under the tyranny of local jurisdictions ON TOP of
> the federal jurisdiction?

Paying taxes to fund public schools, police departments, fire
departments, and road maintenance is "tyranny"?

> Here is a list of taxes most everyone else will encounter:

This list is awesome.  I love how you include inflation and fines
imposed for breaking the law as "taxes".  Also how you state that
"most everyone" will have to pay taxes for fishing licenses, hunting
licenses, CDL licenses, and even corporate income.  Marriage license
tax?  Yeah, I remember paying that fee.  Once.  I believe it was
somewhere around $50.  And cigarette tax?  Correct me if I'm wrong,
but isn't that one mostly paid by those "degenerates" you keep whining
about, the ones who aren't pulling their own weight?  I hope you can
understand that I find it a bit ironic that you're now complaining
about cigarette tax.

>> Say what you want about the income tax system, but at least net income
>> still basically increases monotonically.  If you make more gross than
>> me, chances are that you're going to make more net than me as well.
> So you support a flat tax system? A system where everybody pays the
> same percentage?

No, what makes you think that?  The statement I made is true under
either a flat tax or the progressive system we currently have.

> Actually i think 10% income tax is a fair amount although i believe
> taxing income silly. If the government cannot provide national
> security, domestic security, and LIMITED infratructure on 10% of what
> we make, they are wasting too much of OUR money.

Here's a neat table: government spending as a percentage of GDP, by country.


In 2008, the United States spent 19.9% of its GDP in government
spending (it's gone up a few percent since then).  The only countries
on the chart that spent less than 10% were Turkmenistan and
Afghanistan.  Draw your own conclusions.

> People, THERE IS NO FREE LUNCH! Every product that is made and every
> service rendered was a result of someone's hard labor. Sleep on that
> you degenerates!

No shit.  I pay those taxes too, you know.  I have no delusions about
where the money comes from.

> Hypocrisy! It's no different than the idiots who whine for the fair
> treatment of fluffy mammals but them declare chemical warfare on
> insects and reptiles. To them ONLY fluffy mammals deserve fair
> treatment because they are so cuddly (and cute BTW) PUKE!.

I fail to see any connection whatsoever.  Animal lovers who only care
about mammals are stealing money from taxpayers?

> But you want to know the REAL reason? It's because mammals return love
> and reptiles and insects don't. It's because people are selfish. If
> another being will no reciprocate their love, then they murder that
> being with extreme prejudice, and not feel one bit guilty about it! Do
> you understand how backward you are? Do you understand how selfish and
> immoral you are? Do you understand how incredibly dense you are?

Yes, I am so selfish and immoral that I believe everybody should have
access to health care.  Instead I should be more like you, and label
people who can't afford their own health care as "degenerates", and
dismiss their health needs as being unimportant compared to my own
completely selfless desire that none of my personal income be used to
support the society that I live in and derive benefit from, without my
full and specific consent.

> Because of people like YOU, we don't deserve the right to evolve!

What does that even mean?  Evolution is a natural process.  That's
like saying "we don't deserve the right to be gravitationally bound to
the planet", or "we don't deserve the right to drown if we fall in the

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