Python Warts: The where, when, how, and why of a PyWart.
tjreedy at udel.edu
Tue Feb 19 04:22:40 CET 2013
On 2/18/2013 6:55 PM, Rick Johnson wrote:
> Pointing out problems on appropriate list is fine,
I agree. Python-list is the most free among python.org lists.
> But i don't believe a "Bug Tracker" and a "Language Wart" listing are the same.
I agree. Anyone is free to make their own site or blog, call it what
they want, and run it however they want.
> My belief is that a Tracker is for posting patches for "bugs";
> meaning either the kind that throw errors:
> [Warning: Naively hypothetical examples ahead!]
> py> 1+2
> Exception: Seg Fault!
We take these seriously if they involve core python. There is even,
somewhere, a separate list of 'crashers' that we think should be fixed.
The one left are the ones we do not know how to fix. Some reports are
closed as "won't fix" when the crash is a result of freedom we will not
take away. Two examples are ctypes and the possibility of hacking the
bytecode and other fields in CPython code objects.
> ...or the kind that produce illogical results:
> py> 1+2
Would that all bug issue were so clear. The hard one involve behavior
that is not clearly defined in the docs.
The tracker is also for improvements, though I think idea are best
discussed off the tracker first to discover if there is really any
support and possibly to improve the idea. There are currently 1170 open
'enhancement' requests on the tracker. Most are likely forgotten about
and will never go anywhere without off-tracker discussion.
The tracker is definitely not the place for 'How do I use Python?'
questions, or "How do I fix my code?" questions. They belong here.
> I also believe a Bug Tracker is a serious place where stict etiquette
> and posting rules should be maintained:
Absolutely. Thank you for saying that.
> * only post if you have a working solution!
That is ideal, but some people find problems they do not know how to
fix. What is annoying however, is people how say "I could contribute
code, but I am too busy, so I want one of you volunteer to do the work I
will not do."
> * express the problem as succinctly as possible in text.
> * provide example code that exposes the error in a succinctly manner.
These two apply to posts here too. I am still amazed at 'My code doesn't
work. How do I fix it?" posts.
> * check any emotional baggage at the door.
> * only present "real bugs" and not illusions or preconceived notions > of how a certain chunk of code, or syntax, or whatever, should behave.
I would add that when people do post the last kind of issue, they should
respect the developers enough to accept an issue being closed and not
reopen it to drag on the discussion. We have too limited time for too
many issues and are not quite keeping up as it is.
I have little or no argument with the other points you made.
Terry Jan Reedy
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