Do you feel bad because of the Python docs?

Rick Johnson rantingrickjohnson at gmail.com
Thu Feb 28 19:28:59 CET 2013


On Wednesday, February 27, 2013 11:57:05 PM UTC-6, alex23 wrote:
> On Feb 28, 2:53 pm, Rick Johnson <rantingrickjohn... at gmail.com> wrote:
> > On Wednesday, February 27, 2013 10:18:46 PM UTC-6, alex23 wrote:
> [...]
> * Do you care about the evolution of Python or just give
> it lip service?
> 
> I don't see any problems with how Python is developing now. Then
> again, I am pretty busy using it to write code.

So go write your code and stop trying to stymie the attempts of others who wish to improve Python. Your participation is NOT compulsory!

> * Do you have an ideas for the name of a Python grievance
> list?
>
> http://bugs.python.org/

Well thanks for actually answering a question directly, but we must dig deeper. Deciding the _name_ of a list is just one small detail, the most important question is this:

Q: Do you feel that the bug tracker should be a place where users discuss grievances that distract volunteers from fixing actual bugs?

I'm of the opinion that such discussions are more suited for an entry-level grievance list (such as: PyWarts).

> * What are your opinions of the state of both Tkinter and
> IDLE? Are you proud of these modules/packages?
>
> I don't use them, 

So again, why bother to stymie the attempts of others who DO use them? Crawl back under your rock and write some code.

> ...nor do I need to feel "pride" about any part of the
> Python standard library. Either something is useful to me or not.

That's a fairly selfish outlook Alex. 

Okay, maybe you don't care about the state of Python's stdlib, fine, but other people do. How does flinging poo on these people help anyone? But more importantly how does flinging poo reflect on your image in this community?

> > * Why do you support Guido's continued reign of silence?
>
> Why do you inject hyperbole into everything you write?

The question is quite valid and your are diverting again!

> > * But most importantly, do you not want the community/
> > language to evolve or remain static?
>
> I already answered that above. [...] Can you provide a link to
> your "improved" tkinter package on PyPI? 

No, because my "awesome re-write of Tkinter" does not live at PyPI.

> Where is your draft PEP for its inclusion in the standard
> library?

I have not written a PEP on the subject. Are you suggesting that if i don't write a PEP my proposal is "dead in the water"? If so, this is exactly the kind of barriers that keep Python's stdlib in such a atrocious state!

What if i'm a horrible writer and a genius code artist? If the community judges the value of "source code" based on the rhetoric of a "document describing the source code", then they are basing their judgments on folly. What happens if i am a seasoned programmer but English is my second language? 

It is my opinion that PEP are great, but they should not be compulsory to having your ideas seriously considered by the community. A great idea is a great idea, no matter how much fluff you add to it. Likewise, a poor idea is a poor idea, and no amount of fluff could ever make it better. In this sense, PEP are a waste of valuable time.

And let's not forget the irony here; the default reply for documentation issues is for the user to "read the effing source!". Hmm, so *you* and others feel that reading source is compulsory for those *without* the ability to comprehend the source, and a waste of time for those *with* the ability to read source? Is this not the definition of hipocracy Alex? I have a feeling there is a bit of malevolence in there also.

Alex, your in ability to understand the asinine barriers a contributor to this community must negotiate is leading me to believe you have _insidious_ intentions.

> How is RickPython proceeding?

My personal Python fork is of no concern to this community, or this mailing list; STAY ON TOPIC!

> > What is your opinion on anything "Python related" Alex?
> My biggest regret re Python is that you found it more
> appealing than Ruby and we got saddled with you instead.

Ahh, and this little "off-hand" statement uncovers the hidden truth. Regardless of your personal feeling of me, your underlying hatred of Python is *glaringly* apparent!

> You responded to a request for advice on learning how to
> handle complex projects with:
> 
> "Before you decide to start participating in outside projects may we
> have a list of some of the software you've written for yourself? (With
> all due respect) I very seriously doubt that someone with only a "few
> months" of programming experience is ready for the real world."

The OP of that thread asked for advice on "large projects" that we might recommend. I tend to prefer giving people good advice and only guessing when i have not other choice. In order to offer good advice i need to know first how experienced the OP is with programming (not only python, but all languages). 

The only "hint" the OP offered was this:

############################################################
#                          Quote                           #
############################################################
# So, I desided to start learning programming a few months #
# ago and by now i feel pretty confident about the basics  #
# of the python language, and programming in general.      #
# Variables,loops, conditionals, data structures, methods  #
# and even some object oriented programming, are all       #
# familiar consepts.                                       #
############################################################

Whilst quite admirable, these very basics fundamentals of programming are NOT going to prepare you for real world coding projects. Maybe the OP has more experience that he failed to mention, but I need more information before i can make an honest assessment of the OP's skill-set. 

Possibly, when he offers such information, i "may" or "may not" be able to offer the best advice, however unlike some folks *cough*, i understand that this information must be available before myself, of anybody, can offer good advice. 

And by the way Alex, you are free to put *your* face into the conversation anytime you like. These are free and open forums the last time i checked. But don't chastise me for following an intelligent protocol.



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