Mark Lawrence breamoreboy at
Thu Mar 6 18:46:50 CET 2014

On 06/03/2014 00:35, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> On Thu, 06 Mar 2014 08:26:22 +1100, Chris Angelico wrote:
>> On Thu, Mar 6, 2014 at 8:14 AM, Marko Rauhamaa <marko at> wrote:
>>> When I talk about an object's memory address, I'm not referring to what
>>> might be revealed by gdb, for example. That is, I'm not talking about
>>> the process's virtual address space, nor am I talking about the
>>> physical address on the address bus. I can simply define that the
>>> object's memory address is whatever id() returns.
>> Where's the complaints about circularity now? You're saying "But of
>> course id() returns the address, as long as we define the address as
>> 'whatever id() returns'.". Unimpeachably logical and utterly unhelpful.
> That last sentence is wrong. There is nothing logical about just making
> up arbitrary definitions in this way. He could invent *any* definition,
> each more ridiculous than the last:
> - it's the object's memory address;
> - it's the object's phone number;
> - it's the number of baby elephants killed by the object;
> - it's the number of intergalactic empires that are, even as we
>    speak, rushing to Earth to invade to gain possession of that
>    object;
> - it's the weight in metric tonnes of the electrons in the object;
>    (Not *actual* electrons of course, just these arbitrary inventions
>    of Marko's definition.)
> - it's the length measured in seconds of the bitterness of the
>    object's kidney;
> and of course:
> - the number of angels that can dance on the object.

You've missed the most obvious one, the number of words written on this 
mailing list about Python that are completely wrong.  That number is far 
larger than the sum of all your definitions given above, where sum has 
the usual maths definition and not Marko's.

My fellow Pythonistas, ask not what our language can do for you, ask 
what you can do for our language.

Mark Lawrence

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