From ben+python at benfinney.id.au  Wed Apr  1 00:08:37 2015
From: ben+python at benfinney.id.au (Ben Finney)
Date: Wed, 01 Apr 2015 15:08:37 +1100
Subject: New to Programming - XML Processing
References: <upomhad4fj6sulnr5so8088fdqpo0nk6mu@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <85384k32yi.fsf@benfinney.id.au>

catperson <me at anonymous.invalid> writes:

> I am new to programming, though not new to computers. I'm looking to
> teach myself Python 3 and am working my way through a tutorial.

Congratulations! Python 3 is a fine language to be your first.

Which tutorial are you following? It may be relevant.

> At the point I'm at in the tutorial I am tasked with parsing out an
> XML file created with a Garmin Forerunner and am just having a
> terrible time getting my head around the concepts.

Have you worked with manipulating XML documents in the past?

If I describe XML as a machine-readable hierarchical data serialisation
format, does that sound like noise or are you comfortable that you
understand that description?

> What I'm looking for is some suggested reading that might give me some
> of the theory of operation behind ElementTree and then how to parse
> out specific elements.

You'll need to understand the principles behind XML, then. Warning: it
is not simple! XML is machine-readable, but rarely pleasant for *humans*
to read or understand.

> I'm hoping with enough reading I can experiment and work my way
> through the problem and end up with a hopefully clear understanding of
> the ElementTree module and Dictionairies.

XML is a standard ? a large number of standards, really ? from the W3
Consortium. They have a good overview of the ?core? of XML
<URL:http://www.w3.org/standards/xml/core>.

There are countless XML formats though; XML is a markup language to use
as a basis for constructing data serialisation formats. You need to know
what the specific format (called a ?schema?) is before you can expect to
make sense of it, and so in order to understand what's in the document
you need a description of the specific schema from whoever wrote the
document.

General XML tutorials do exist; here is one comprehensive one
<URL:http://www.xmlobjective.com/category/guide/>. You'll likely want to
learn more about the specifics of whatever XML format is being used,
though, before going much beyond the basic principles.

-- 
 \            ?Politics is not the art of the possible. It consists in |
  `\       choosing between the disastrous and the unpalatable.? ?John |
_o__)                                    Kenneth Galbraith, 1962-03-02 |
Ben Finney



From rustompmody at gmail.com  Wed Apr  1 00:17:38 2015
From: rustompmody at gmail.com (Rustom Mody)
Date: Tue, 31 Mar 2015 21:17:38 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: New to Programming - XML Processing
In-Reply-To: <upomhad4fj6sulnr5so8088fdqpo0nk6mu@4ax.com>
References: <upomhad4fj6sulnr5so8088fdqpo0nk6mu@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <0b0fd795-8f3e-443e-acc2-aed9b5d200ba@googlegroups.com>

On Wednesday, April 1, 2015 at 8:57:15 AM UTC+5:30, catperson wrote:
> I am new to programming, though not new to computers.  I'm looking to
> teach myself Python 3 and am working my way through a tutorial.  At
> the point I'm at in the tutorial I am tasked with parsing out an XML
> file created with a Garmin Forerunner and am just having a terrible
> time getting my head around the concepts.  What I'm looking for is
> some suggested reading that might give me some of the theory of
> operation behind ElementTree and then how to parse out specific
> elements.  Most of what I have been able to find in examples that I
> can understand use very simplistic XML files and this Garmin file is
> many levels of sub-elements and some of those elements have attributes
> assigned, like <Activity Sport="Running">.
> 
> I'm hoping with enough reading I can experiment and work my way
> through the problem and end up with a hopefully clear understanding of
> the ElementTree module and Dictionairies.  
> 
> Thanks for any suggestions in advance.

Suggestions:
1. Learn to use the interpreter interactively; ie (at the least)? ie

a. Start up python (without a program)
b. Play around with trivial expressions
c. Explore introspective features - help(), type() dir()

2. Do you know about triple-quoted strings?
a. Start small (or trivial) sub-parts of your XML as triple-quoted examples in the 
interpreter and start throwing them at elementtree
b. If they dont work trivialize further; if they work add complexity
-----------
? At the least because environments like Idle are more conducive to such playing


From amfarrell at mit.edu  Wed Apr  1 00:26:30 2015
From: amfarrell at mit.edu (Andrew Farrell)
Date: Tue, 31 Mar 2015 23:26:30 -0500
Subject: New to Programming - XML Processing
In-Reply-To: <85384k32yi.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
References: <upomhad4fj6sulnr5so8088fdqpo0nk6mu@4ax.com>
 <85384k32yi.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
Message-ID: <CA+y5TLYHvH3brosUCNSos=vQOccLQAa_bioqUVmtowCLG7vEnQ@mail.gmail.com>

> I am new to programming, though not new to computers.

One quick tip: when starting a new project, it is sometimes is useful to
see if others have done the same thing and use their approach to guide
yours. In your case, googling "Garmin Forerunner xml python" results in
this blog post which is recent enough that it should be helpful.

http://www.nezirteke.com/2014/02/using-python-to-plot-garmin-forerunner.html

Note that coming up with good phrases for google to help you with a
programming task is a skill that you get better at with time.

Welcome to Python! ^-^

On Tue, Mar 31, 2015 at 11:08 PM, Ben Finney <ben+python at benfinney.id.au>
wrote:

> catperson <me at anonymous.invalid> writes:
>
> > I am new to programming, though not new to computers. I'm looking to
> > teach myself Python 3 and am working my way through a tutorial.
>
> Congratulations! Python 3 is a fine language to be your first.
>
> Which tutorial are you following? It may be relevant.
>
> > At the point I'm at in the tutorial I am tasked with parsing out an
> > XML file created with a Garmin Forerunner and am just having a
> > terrible time getting my head around the concepts.
>
> Have you worked with manipulating XML documents in the past?
>
> If I describe XML as a machine-readable hierarchical data serialisation
> format, does that sound like noise or are you comfortable that you
> understand that description?
>
> > What I'm looking for is some suggested reading that might give me some
> > of the theory of operation behind ElementTree and then how to parse
> > out specific elements.
>
> You'll need to understand the principles behind XML, then. Warning: it
> is not simple! XML is machine-readable, but rarely pleasant for *humans*
> to read or understand.
>
> > I'm hoping with enough reading I can experiment and work my way
> > through the problem and end up with a hopefully clear understanding of
> > the ElementTree module and Dictionairies.
>
> XML is a standard ? a large number of standards, really ? from the W3
> Consortium. They have a good overview of the ?core? of XML
> <URL:http://www.w3.org/standards/xml/core>.
>
> There are countless XML formats though; XML is a markup language to use
> as a basis for constructing data serialisation formats. You need to know
> what the specific format (called a ?schema?) is before you can expect to
> make sense of it, and so in order to understand what's in the document
> you need a description of the specific schema from whoever wrote the
> document.
>
> General XML tutorials do exist; here is one comprehensive one
> <URL:http://www.xmlobjective.com/category/guide/>. You'll likely want to
> learn more about the specifics of whatever XML format is being used,
> though, before going much beyond the basic principles.
>
> --
>  \            ?Politics is not the art of the possible. It consists in |
>   `\       choosing between the disastrous and the unpalatable.? ?John |
> _o__)                                    Kenneth Galbraith, 1962-03-02 |
> Ben Finney
>
> --
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/attachments/20150331/63291c4e/attachment.html>

From amfarrell at mit.edu  Wed Apr  1 00:27:57 2015
From: amfarrell at mit.edu (Andrew Farrell)
Date: Tue, 31 Mar 2015 23:27:57 -0500
Subject: New to Programming - XML Processing
In-Reply-To: <0b0fd795-8f3e-443e-acc2-aed9b5d200ba@googlegroups.com>
References: <upomhad4fj6sulnr5so8088fdqpo0nk6mu@4ax.com>
 <0b0fd795-8f3e-443e-acc2-aed9b5d200ba@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <CA+y5TLYqyTJu3VRHOxCx2pb7qN+tV1_9aJUYjKw4mj-55PatgQ@mail.gmail.com>

You should follow Rustom's advice before just diving into the blog post I
linked to. Otherwise you risk blindly following things and losing your
bearings when you run into bugs.

On Tue, Mar 31, 2015 at 11:17 PM, Rustom Mody <rustompmody at gmail.com> wrote:

> On Wednesday, April 1, 2015 at 8:57:15 AM UTC+5:30, catperson wrote:
> > I am new to programming, though not new to computers.  I'm looking to
> > teach myself Python 3 and am working my way through a tutorial.  At
> > the point I'm at in the tutorial I am tasked with parsing out an XML
> > file created with a Garmin Forerunner and am just having a terrible
> > time getting my head around the concepts.  What I'm looking for is
> > some suggested reading that might give me some of the theory of
> > operation behind ElementTree and then how to parse out specific
> > elements.  Most of what I have been able to find in examples that I
> > can understand use very simplistic XML files and this Garmin file is
> > many levels of sub-elements and some of those elements have attributes
> > assigned, like <Activity Sport="Running">.
> >
> > I'm hoping with enough reading I can experiment and work my way
> > through the problem and end up with a hopefully clear understanding of
> > the ElementTree module and Dictionairies.
> >
> > Thanks for any suggestions in advance.
>
> Suggestions:
> 1. Learn to use the interpreter interactively; ie (at the least)? ie
>
> a. Start up python (without a program)
> b. Play around with trivial expressions
> c. Explore introspective features - help(), type() dir()
>
> 2. Do you know about triple-quoted strings?
> a. Start small (or trivial) sub-parts of your XML as triple-quoted
> examples in the
> interpreter and start throwing them at elementtree
> b. If they dont work trivialize further; if they work add complexity
> -----------
> ? At the least because environments like Idle are more conducive to such
> playing
> --
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/attachments/20150331/6c968d72/attachment.html>

From rustompmody at gmail.com  Wed Apr  1 00:49:21 2015
From: rustompmody at gmail.com (Rustom Mody)
Date: Tue, 31 Mar 2015 21:49:21 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: New to Programming - XML Processing
In-Reply-To: <upomhad4fj6sulnr5so8088fdqpo0nk6mu@4ax.com>
References: <upomhad4fj6sulnr5so8088fdqpo0nk6mu@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <08549bc7-959f-43c3-b03e-aee5d8f744f8@googlegroups.com>

On Wednesday, April 1, 2015 at 8:57:15 AM UTC+5:30, catperson wrote:
> I'm hoping with enough reading I can experiment and work my way
> through the problem and end up with a hopefully clear understanding of
> the ElementTree module and Dictionairies.  

Also:
If you are not familiar with dictionaries, better grok them
(and lists and tuples and some else) from a good tut like

https://docs.python.org/3.4/tutorial/

BEFORE taking on ElementTree


From breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk  Wed Apr  1 04:00:09 2015
From: breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk (Mark Lawrence)
Date: Wed, 01 Apr 2015 09:00:09 +0100
Subject: New to Programming - XML Processing
In-Reply-To: <CA+y5TLYqyTJu3VRHOxCx2pb7qN+tV1_9aJUYjKw4mj-55PatgQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <upomhad4fj6sulnr5so8088fdqpo0nk6mu@4ax.com>
 <0b0fd795-8f3e-443e-acc2-aed9b5d200ba@googlegroups.com>
 <CA+y5TLYqyTJu3VRHOxCx2pb7qN+tV1_9aJUYjKw4mj-55PatgQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <mfg8id$8g3$1@ger.gmane.org>

On 01/04/2015 05:27, Andrew Farrell wrote:
> You should follow Rustom's advice before just diving into the blog post
> I linked to. Otherwise you risk blindly following things and losing your
> bearings when you run into bugs.
>

Sound advice, but would you please be kind enough to intersperse your 
answers or bottom post as top posting is heavily frowned upon here.

TIA.

-- 
My fellow Pythonistas, ask not what our language can do for you, ask
what you can do for our language.

Mark Lawrence



From mohan463 at gmail.com  Wed Apr  1 06:15:11 2015
From: mohan463 at gmail.com (mohan463 at gmail.com)
Date: Wed, 1 Apr 2015 03:15:11 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Memory Issue using marking property in spotfire
Message-ID: <5c4309b6-0546-4ab2-822b-fbef3b43a26f@googlegroups.com>

Hi All,

we have developed Iron Python script in spotfire to execute some calculation based on the marked rows. The Script holding the memory and not realsing . if we marked 1000+ rows its taking MBs of memory and keep on increasing. 

Please help us, is there any way in iron python to release memory. 

Thanks
Mohan


From breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk  Wed Apr  1 07:12:42 2015
From: breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk (Mark Lawrence)
Date: Wed, 01 Apr 2015 12:12:42 +0100
Subject: Memory Issue using marking property in spotfire
In-Reply-To: <5c4309b6-0546-4ab2-822b-fbef3b43a26f@googlegroups.com>
References: <5c4309b6-0546-4ab2-822b-fbef3b43a26f@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <mfgjre$ge0$2@ger.gmane.org>

On 01/04/2015 11:15, mohan463 at gmail.com wrote:
> Hi All,
>
> we have developed Iron Python script in spotfire to execute some calculation based on the marked rows. The Script holding the memory and not realsing . if we marked 1000+ rows its taking MBs of memory and keep on increasing.
>
> Please help us, is there any way in iron python to release memory.
>
> Thanks
> Mohan
>

I'm sorry that I can't help directly, but if you don't get your answer 
here there is an ironpython list at either 
gmane.comp.python.ironpython.user or 
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/ironpython-users

-- 
My fellow Pythonistas, ask not what our language can do for you, ask
what you can do for our language.

Mark Lawrence



From lynto28 at gmail.com  Wed Apr  1 07:51:29 2015
From: lynto28 at gmail.com (Didymus)
Date: Wed, 1 Apr 2015 04:51:29 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Logging Custom Levels?
In-Reply-To: <mailman.384.1427823434.10327.python-list@python.org>
References: <b4fd634c-de04-4cd6-be71-32f56b355acc@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.384.1427823434.10327.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <2ba601a0-ba32-4c29-9125-2409aeca19f9@googlegroups.com>

On Tuesday, March 31, 2015 at 1:37:29 PM UTC-4, Jean-Michel Pichavant wrote:
> 
> A solution is pretty simple, do not use an intermediate log function pdebug.
> 
> import logging
> PDEBUG_NUM=20
> logging.addLevelName(PDEBUG_NUM, "PDEBUG")
>  
> logger = logging.getLogger('foo')
> logging.basicConfig(level=logging.DEBUG, format='%(message)s %(lineno)d')
> 
> logger.log(PDEBUG_NUM, 'This will work :')
> 
> 
> If you *really* want to go for the hackish way, forget about the inspect module, the following pdebug function should do the trick:
> 
> def pdebug(self, message, *args, **kws):
>     if self.isEnabledFor(PDEBUG_NUM):
>         self._log(PDEBUG_NUM, message, args, **kws)
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> JM
> 

Very good, thank you!
    Tom
 



From gandalf at shopzeus.com  Wed Apr  1 08:01:31 2015
From: gandalf at shopzeus.com (=?ISO-8859-2?Q?Nagy_L=E1szl=F3_Zsolt?=)
Date: Wed, 01 Apr 2015 14:01:31 +0200
Subject: pycurl.error: (55, 'select/poll returned error')
In-Reply-To: <871tk756hk.fsf@handshake.de>
References: <5514FFEE.4030204@shopzeus.com> <87fv8pwrk0.fsf@handshake.de>
 <5517A5DC.6060001@shopzeus.com> <871tk756hk.fsf@handshake.de>
Message-ID: <551BDE1B.3030602@shopzeus.com>


>>>> When calling  curl.perform() on a curl instance I get this:
>>>>
>>>> pycurl.error: (55, 'select/poll returned error')
>>>> ....
>> The same server is happily accepting files over 4GB from other
>> clients. Those other clients are exactly the same client programs, but
>> they are running on Windows. Only the one on this FreeBSD box is
>> throwing the error.
> Maybe, you can find out what was the real error reported by
> "select/poll" (the "55" above might be the "errno" and in
> you OS header files, you may find what it means).
>
> *nix* derivatives have a peculiarity (missing under Windows).
> There waiting system calls may prematurely return with
> the error "interrupted system call".
> Likely, this should give waiting applications a chance to reassess
> the state after a signal interrupt and decide for themselves
> whether the waiting should be continued. In most contexts,
> "interrupted system call" should not be considered an error and the
> interrupted call should be restartet. Maybe, "pycurl" misses to do that.
>
I have figured out that the limit is exactly 2048KB. I'll probably post 
a bug report to pycurl developers.

-- 
This message has been scanned for viruses and
dangerous content by MailScanner, and is
believed to be clean.



From turiddociccuddu at yahoo.com  Wed Apr  1 08:49:57 2015
From: turiddociccuddu at yahoo.com (ME MO CHE OTTO)
Date: Wed, 1 Apr 2015 05:49:57 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: -- redacted --
In-Reply-To: <7d471aa5-b6ed-4800-9855-37319ba126ee@googlegroups.com>
References: <7d471aa5-b6ed-4800-9855-37319ba126ee@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <e8e2ce45-6e7c-4fbf-8a54-dcaa68b554b0@googlegroups.com>

-- redacted --


From ahlusar.ahluwalia at gmail.com  Wed Apr  1 09:43:45 2015
From: ahlusar.ahluwalia at gmail.com (Saran A)
Date: Wed, 1 Apr 2015 06:43:45 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Strategy/ Advice for How to Best Attack this Problem?
In-Reply-To: <mailman.371.1427807964.10327.python-list@python.org>
References: <b803183b-6da5-4907-825d-9386b2bc2798@googlegroups.com>
 <87a8yvs34u.fsf@jester.gateway.pace.com>
 <mailman.323.1427681070.10327.python-list@python.org>
 <bc19cb8e-9e4f-48a7-a9f5-4b39db09a7ce@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.344.1427740538.10327.python-list@python.org>
 <0623f75c-bf93-4a0f-9d87-86986185cdc3@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.371.1427807964.10327.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <fcd8bbbc-2d81-4797-aa0e-090683e72f3f@googlegroups.com>

On Tuesday, March 31, 2015 at 9:19:37 AM UTC-4, Dave Angel wrote:
> On 03/31/2015 07:00 AM, Saran A wrote:
> 
>  > @DaveA: This is a homework assignment. .... Is it possible that you 
> could provide me with some snippets or guidance on where to place your 
> suggestions (for your TO DOs 2,3,4,5)?
>  >
> 
> 
> > On Monday, March 30, 2015 at 2:36:02 PM UTC-4, Dave Angel wrote:
> 
> >>
> >> It's missing a number of your requirements.  But it's a start.
> >>
> >> If it were my file, I'd have a TODO comment at the bottom stating known
> >> changes that are needed.  In it, I'd mention:
> >>
> >> 1) your present code is assuming all filenames come directly from the
> >> commandline.  No searching of a directory.
> >>
> >> 2) your present code does not move any files to success or failure
> >> directories
> >>
> 
> In function validate_files()
> Just after the line
>                  print('success with %s on %d reco...
> you could move the file, using shutil.  Likewise after the failure print.
> 
> >> 3) your present code doesn't calculate or write to a text file any
> >> statistics.
> 
> You successfully print to sys.stderr.  So you could print to some other 
> file in the exact same way.
> 
> >>
> >> 4) your present code runs once through the names, and terminates.  It
> >> doesn't "monitor" anything.
> 
> Make a new function, perhaps called main(), with a loop that calls 
> validate_files(), with a sleep after each pass.  Of course, unless you 
> fix TODO#1, that'll keep looking for the same files.  No harm in that if 
> that's the spec, since you moved the earlier versions of the files.
> 
> But if you want to "monitor" the directory, let the directory name be 
> the argument to main, and let main do a dirlist each time through the 
> loop, and pass the corresponding list to validate_files.
> 
> >>
> >> 5) your present code doesn't check for zero-length files
> >>
> 
> In validate_and_process_data(), instead of checking filesize against 
> ftell, check it against zero.
> 
> >> I'd also wonder why you bother checking whether the
> >> os.path.getsize(file) function returns the same value as the os.SEEK_END
> >> and ftell() code does.  Is it that you don't trust the library?  Or that
> >> you have to run on Windows, where the line-ending logic can change the
> >> apparent file size?
> >>
> >> I notice you're not specifying a file mode on the open.  So in Python 3,
> >> your sizes are going to be specified in unicode characters after
> >> decoding.  Is that what the spec says?  It's probably safer to
> >> explicitly specify the mode (and the file encoding if you're in text).
> >>
> >> I see you call strip() before comparing the length.  Could there ever be
> >> leading or trailing whitespace that's significant?  Is that the actual
> >> specification of line size?
> >>
> >> --
> >> DaveA
> >
> >
> 
> > I ask this because I have been searching fruitlessly through for some time and there are so many permutations that I am bamboozled by which is considered best practice.
> >
> > Moreover, as to the other comments, those are too specific. The scope of the assignment is very limited, but I am learning what I need to look out or ask questions regarding specs - in the future.
> >
> 
> 
> -- 
> DaveA

@DaveA

My most recent commit (https://github.com/ahlusar1989/WGProjects/blob/master/P1version2.0withassumptions_mods.py) has more annotations and comments for each file. 

I have attempted to address the functional requirements that you brought up:

1) Before, my present code was assuming all filenames come directly from the commandline.  No searching of a directory. I think that I have addressed this. 

2) My present code does not move any files to success or failure directories (requirements for this assignment1). I am still wondering if and how I should use shututil() like you advised me to. I keep receiving a syntax error when declaring this below the print statement. 

3) You correctly reminded me that my present code doesn't calculate or write to a text file any statistics or errors for the cause of the error. (Should I use the copy or copy2 method in order provide metadata? If so, should I wrap it into a try and except logic?)

4) Before, my present code runs once through the names, and terminates.  It doesn't "monitor" anything. I think I have addressed this with the  main function - correct?

5) Before, my present code doesn't check for zero-length files  - I have added a comment there in case that is needed) 

I realize appreciate your invaluable feedback. I have grown a lot with this assignment!

Sincerely,

Saran


From burak.arslan at arskom.com.tr  Wed Apr  1 09:44:02 2015
From: burak.arslan at arskom.com.tr (Burak Arslan)
Date: Wed, 01 Apr 2015 16:44:02 +0300
Subject: New to Programming - XML Processing
In-Reply-To: <upomhad4fj6sulnr5so8088fdqpo0nk6mu@4ax.com>
References: <upomhad4fj6sulnr5so8088fdqpo0nk6mu@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <551BF622.6060502@arskom.com.tr>

On 04/01/15 06:27, catperson wrote:
> I am new to programming, though not new to computers.  I'm looking to
> teach myself Python 3 and am working my way through a tutorial.  At
> the point I'm at in the tutorial I am tasked with parsing out an XML
> file created with a Garmin Forerunner and am just having a terrible
> time getting my head around the concepts.  What I'm looking for is
> some suggested reading that might give me some of the theory of
> operation behind ElementTree and then how to parse out specific
> elements.  Most of what I have been able to find in examples that I
> can understand use very simplistic XML files and this Garmin file is
> many levels of sub-elements and some of those elements have attributes
> assigned, like <Activity Sport="Running">.

As everybody loves objects, there are many libraries that parse xml
documents to regular python objects (with proper hierarchy). These are
supposed to save you from dealing with ElementTree api directly.

Have a look here:

http://stackoverflow.com/questions/19545067/python-joining-and-writing-xml-etrees-trees-stored-in-a-list

Hth,
Burak




From ahlusar.ahluwalia at gmail.com  Wed Apr  1 10:17:30 2015
From: ahlusar.ahluwalia at gmail.com (Saran A)
Date: Wed, 1 Apr 2015 07:17:30 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Addendum to Strategy/ Advice for How to Best Attack this Problem?
In-Reply-To: <mailman.307.1427632400.10327.python-list@python.org>
References: <b803183b-6da5-4907-825d-9386b2bc2798@googlegroups.com>
 <c933b8de-15b6-45b2-9fa7-2011a3615921@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.307.1427632400.10327.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <fc09b6ca-3207-4324-a821-eedd03feecc5@googlegroups.com>

On Sunday, March 29, 2015 at 8:33:43 AM UTC-4, Peter Otten wrote:
> Saran Ahluwalia wrote:
> 
> > On Sunday, March 29, 2015 at 7:33:04 AM UTC-4, Saran Ahluwalia wrote:
> >> Below are the function's requirements. I am torn between using the OS
> >> module or some other quick and dirty module. In addition, my ideal
> >> assumption that this could be cross-platform. "Records" refers to
> >> contents in a file. What are some suggestions from the Pythonistas?
> >> 
> >> * Monitors a folder for files that are dropped throughout the day
> >> 
> >> * When a file is dropped in the folder the program should scan the file
> >> 
> >> o IF all the records in the file have the same length
> >> 
> >> o THEN the file should be moved to a "success" folder and a text file
> >> written indicating the total number of records processed
> >> 
> >> o IF the file is empty OR the records are not all of the same length
> >> 
> >> o THEN the file should be moved to a "failure" folder and a text file
> >> written indicating the cause for failure (for example: Empty file or line
> >> 100 was not the same length as the rest).
> > 
> > Below are some functions that I have been playing around with. I am not
> > sure how to create a functional program from each of these constituent
> > parts. I could use decorators or simply pass a function within another
> > function.
> 
> Throwing arbitrary code at a task in the hope that something sticks is not a 
> good approach. You already have given a clear description of the problem, so 
> start with that and try to "pythonize" it. Example:
> 
> def main():
>     while True:
>         files_to_check = get_files_in_monitored_folder()
>         for file in files_to_check:
>             if is_good(file):
>                 move_to_success_folder(file)
>             else:
>                 move_to_failure_folder(file)
>         wait_a_minute()
> 
> if __name__ == "__main__":
>     main()
> 
> Then write bogus implementations for the building blocks:
> 
> def get_files_in_monitored_folder():
>     return ["/foo/bar/ham", "/foo/bar/spam"]
> 
> def is_good(file):
>     return file.endswith("/ham")
> 
> def move_to_failure_folder(file):
>     print("failure", file)
> 
> def move_to_success_folder(file):
>     print("success", file)
> 
> def wait_a_minute():
>     raise SystemExit("bye") # we don't want to enter the loop while 
> developing
> 
> Now successively replace the dummy function with functions that do the right 
> thing. Test them individually (preferrably using unit tests) so that when 
> you have completed them all and your program does not work like it should 
> you can be sure that there is a flaw in the main function.
> 
> > [code]
> > import time
> > import fnmatch
> > import os
> > import shutil
> > 
> > 
> > #If you want to write to a file, and if it doesn't exist, do this:
> 
> Hm, are these your personal notes or is it an actual script?
>  
> > if not os.path.exists(filepath):
> >     f = open(filepath, 'w')
> > #If you want to read a file, and if it exists, do the following:
> > 
> > try:
> >     f = open(filepath)
> > except IOError:
> >     print 'I will be moving this to the '
> > 
> > 
> > #Changing a directory to "/home/newdir"
> > os.chdir("/home/newdir")
> 
> Never using os.chdir() is a good habit to get into.
> 
> > def move(src, dest):
> >     shutil.move(src, dest)
> > 
> > def fileinfo(file):
> >     filename = os.path.basename(file)
> >     rootdir = os.path.dirname(file)
> >     lastmod = time.ctime(os.path.getmtime(file))
> >     creation = time.ctime(os.path.getctime(file))
> >     filesize = os.path.getsize(file)
> > 
> >     print "%s**\t%s\t%s\t%s\t%s" % (rootdir, filename, lastmod, creation,
> >     filesize)
> > 
> > searchdir = r'D:\Your\Directory\Root'
> > matches = []
> > 
> > def search
> 
> Everytime you post code that doesn't even compile you lose some goodwill.
> In a few lines of code meant to demonstrate a problem a typo may be 
> acceptable, but for something that you probably composed in an editor you 
> should take the time to run it and fix at least the syntax errors.
> 
> > for root, dirnames, filenames in os.walk(searchdir):
> >     ##  for filename in fnmatch.filter(filenames, '*.c'):
> >     for filename in filenames:
> >         ##      matches.append(os.path.join(root, filename))
> >         ##print matches
> >         fileinfo(os.path.join(root, filename))
> > 
> > 
> > def get_files(src_dir):
> > # traverse root directory, and list directories as dirs and files as files
> >     for root, dirs, files in os.walk(src_dir):
> >         path = root.split('/')
> >         for file in files:
> >             process(os.path.join(root, file))
> >                     os.remove(os.path.join(root, file))
> > 
> > def del_dirs(src_dir):
> >     for dirpath, _, _ in os.walk(src_dir, topdown=False):  # Listing the
> >     files
> >         if dirpath == src_dir:
> >             break
> >         try:
> >             os.rmdir(dirpath)
> >         except OSError as ex:
> >             print(ex)
> > 
> > 
> > def main():
> >     get_files(src_dir)
> >     del_dirs(src_dir)
> > 
> > 
> > if __name__ == "__main__":
> >     main()
> > 
> > 
> > [/code]

@PeterOtten

Thank you for the feedback - since your last correspondence I have come up with this (my most recent commit: 

https://github.com/ahlusar1989/WGProjects/blob/master/P1version2.0withassumptions_mods.py


From teqisid at gmail.com  Wed Apr  1 11:46:36 2015
From: teqisid at gmail.com (teqisid at gmail.com)
Date: Wed, 1 Apr 2015 08:46:36 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: ImportError: No module named 'requests.packages.urllib3'
Message-ID: <0d6728d9-07c1-41a3-a872-20bc9cc27aed@googlegroups.com>

When I am trying to import requests library in python shell, I get this error: ImportError: No module named 'requests.packages.urllib3'
I have tried searching online and followed a few probable solutions but yet no luck. 
Does anyone know how I can solve this error? 
I am using python 2.7


From ian.g.kelly at gmail.com  Wed Apr  1 12:04:09 2015
From: ian.g.kelly at gmail.com (Ian Kelly)
Date: Wed, 1 Apr 2015 10:04:09 -0600
Subject: ImportError: No module named 'requests.packages.urllib3'
In-Reply-To: <0d6728d9-07c1-41a3-a872-20bc9cc27aed@googlegroups.com>
References: <0d6728d9-07c1-41a3-a872-20bc9cc27aed@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <CALwzid=NXiE046YXLzjgozFRhR-YHtLEp5wuYaPT7sLvUANx9A@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Apr 1, 2015 at 9:46 AM,  <teqisid at gmail.com> wrote:
> When I am trying to import requests library in python shell, I get this error: ImportError: No module named 'requests.packages.urllib3'
> I have tried searching online and followed a few probable solutions but yet no luck.
> Does anyone know how I can solve this error?
> I am using python 2.7

It sounds like there's something missing from your requests
installation. How did you attempt to install it, and were there any
errors?


From rosuav at gmail.com  Wed Apr  1 12:18:25 2015
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Thu, 2 Apr 2015 03:18:25 +1100
Subject: ImportError: No module named 'requests.packages.urllib3'
In-Reply-To: <CALwzid=NXiE046YXLzjgozFRhR-YHtLEp5wuYaPT7sLvUANx9A@mail.gmail.com>
References: <0d6728d9-07c1-41a3-a872-20bc9cc27aed@googlegroups.com>
 <CALwzid=NXiE046YXLzjgozFRhR-YHtLEp5wuYaPT7sLvUANx9A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmqVPZoEWnFV7PVF+XCrzPd-gcEGp=0y92sWB5AAAAen+Q@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Apr 2, 2015 at 3:04 AM, Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Wed, Apr 1, 2015 at 9:46 AM,  <teqisid at gmail.com> wrote:
>> When I am trying to import requests library in python shell, I get this error: ImportError: No module named 'requests.packages.urllib3'
>> I have tried searching online and followed a few probable solutions but yet no luck.
>> Does anyone know how I can solve this error?
>> I am using python 2.7
>
> It sounds like there's something missing from your requests
> installation. How did you attempt to install it, and were there any
> errors?

It's also possible that you've shadowed a key module. Copy and paste
the entire traceback, including all the file names, and there might be
a clue somewhere. Or put your code in a file called "1.py", in a
directory on its own, and run that; that name can't accidentally
shadow a normal module name.

(I know this, because I built a WSGI web site that has most of its
code in a file of that name. Importing that took a bit of
hoop-jumping; you can't simply "import 1", because that doesn't make
any sense.)

ChrisA


From teqisid at gmail.com  Wed Apr  1 12:42:15 2015
From: teqisid at gmail.com (teqisid at gmail.com)
Date: Wed, 1 Apr 2015 09:42:15 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: ImportError: No module named 'requests.packages.urllib3'
In-Reply-To: <mailman.12.1427904298.12925.python-list@python.org>
References: <0d6728d9-07c1-41a3-a872-20bc9cc27aed@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.12.1427904298.12925.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <d892b07b-97f3-408f-8070-750c41fb8ed7@googlegroups.com>

On Wednesday, April 1, 2015 at 12:05:12 PM UTC-4, Ian wrote:
> On Wed, Apr 1, 2015 at 9:46 AM,  <teqisid at gmail.com> wrote:
> > When I am trying to import requests library in python shell, I get this error: ImportError: No module named 'requests.packages.urllib3'
> > I have tried searching online and followed a few probable solutions but yet no luck.
> > Does anyone know how I can solve this error?
> > I am using python 2.7
> 
> It sounds like there's something missing from your requests
> installation. How did you attempt to install it, and were there any
> errors?

I installed it using pip. I had to use sudo pip install requests to get the module in the site-packages directory. I did not see any error.


From teqisid at gmail.com  Wed Apr  1 12:43:55 2015
From: teqisid at gmail.com (teqisid at gmail.com)
Date: Wed, 1 Apr 2015 09:43:55 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: ImportError: No module named 'requests.packages.urllib3'
In-Reply-To: <d892b07b-97f3-408f-8070-750c41fb8ed7@googlegroups.com>
References: <0d6728d9-07c1-41a3-a872-20bc9cc27aed@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.12.1427904298.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <d892b07b-97f3-408f-8070-750c41fb8ed7@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <9cacb818-2b97-4fe1-9e64-8c71b9d6a9a9@googlegroups.com>

On Wednesday, April 1, 2015 at 12:42:39 PM UTC-4, teq... at gmail.com wrote:
> On Wednesday, April 1, 2015 at 12:05:12 PM UTC-4, Ian wrote:
> > On Wed, Apr 1, 2015 at 9:46 AM,  <teqisid at gmail.com> wrote:
> > > When I am trying to import requests library in python shell, I get this error: ImportError: No module named 'requests.packages.urllib3'
> > > I have tried searching online and followed a few probable solutions but yet no luck.
> > > Does anyone know how I can solve this error?
> > > I am using python 2.7
> > 
> > It sounds like there's something missing from your requests
> > installation. How did you attempt to install it, and were there any
> > errors?
> 
> I installed it using pip. I had to use sudo pip install requests to get the module in the site-packages directory. I did not see any error.

Below is the full stack trace for the error:

Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "/usr/local/bin/behave", line 8, in <module>
    load_entry_point('behave==1.2.4', 'console_scripts', 'behave')()
  File "build/bdist.macosx-10.9-intel/egg/behave/__main__.py", line 111, in main
  File "build/bdist.macosx-10.9-intel/egg/behave/runner.py", line 659, in run
  File "build/bdist.macosx-10.9-intel/egg/behave/runner.py", line 665, in run_with_paths
  File "build/bdist.macosx-10.9-intel/egg/behave/runner.py", line 649, in load_step_definitions
  File "build/bdist.macosx-10.9-intel/egg/behave/runner.py", line 306, in exec_file
  File "/Users/abubakar.siddiq/projects/oms_automation_test/features/steps/callback_ftp.py", line 2, in <module>
    import requests
  File "/Library/Python/2.7/site-packages/requests/__init__.py", line 58, in <module>
    from . import utils
  File "/Library/Python/2.7/site-packages/requests/utils.py", line 26, in <module>
    from .compat import parse_http_list as _parse_list_header
  File "/Library/Python/2.7/site-packages/requests/compat.py", line 42, in <module>
    from .packages.urllib3.packages.ordered_dict import OrderedDict
  File "/Library/Python/2.7/site-packages/requests/packages/__init__.py", line 95, in load_module
    raise ImportError("No module named '%s'" % (name,))
ImportError: No module named 'requests.packages.urllib3'



From teqisid at gmail.com  Wed Apr  1 13:52:47 2015
From: teqisid at gmail.com (teqisid at gmail.com)
Date: Wed, 1 Apr 2015 10:52:47 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: ImportError: No module named 'requests.packages.urllib3'
In-Reply-To: <9cacb818-2b97-4fe1-9e64-8c71b9d6a9a9@googlegroups.com>
References: <0d6728d9-07c1-41a3-a872-20bc9cc27aed@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.12.1427904298.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <d892b07b-97f3-408f-8070-750c41fb8ed7@googlegroups.com>
 <9cacb818-2b97-4fe1-9e64-8c71b9d6a9a9@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <ea57a716-3486-49bd-be0c-dfc494d961ab@googlegroups.com>

On Wednesday, April 1, 2015 at 12:44:12 PM UTC-4, teq... at gmail.com wrote:
> On Wednesday, April 1, 2015 at 12:42:39 PM UTC-4, teq... at gmail.com wrote:
> > On Wednesday, April 1, 2015 at 12:05:12 PM UTC-4, Ian wrote:
> > > On Wed, Apr 1, 2015 at 9:46 AM,  <teqisid at gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > When I am trying to import requests library in python shell, I get this error: ImportError: No module named 'requests.packages.urllib3'
> > > > I have tried searching online and followed a few probable solutions but yet no luck.
> > > > Does anyone know how I can solve this error?
> > > > I am using python 2.7
> > > 
> > > It sounds like there's something missing from your requests
> > > installation. How did you attempt to install it, and were there any
> > > errors?
> > 
> > I installed it using pip. I had to use sudo pip install requests to get the module in the site-packages directory. I did not see any error.
> 
> Below is the full stack trace for the error:
> 
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "/usr/local/bin/behave", line 8, in <module>
>     load_entry_point('behave==1.2.4', 'console_scripts', 'behave')()
>   File "build/bdist.macosx-10.9-intel/egg/behave/__main__.py", line 111, in main
>   File "build/bdist.macosx-10.9-intel/egg/behave/runner.py", line 659, in run
>   File "build/bdist.macosx-10.9-intel/egg/behave/runner.py", line 665, in run_with_paths
>   File "build/bdist.macosx-10.9-intel/egg/behave/runner.py", line 649, in load_step_definitions
>   File "build/bdist.macosx-10.9-intel/egg/behave/runner.py", line 306, in exec_file
>   File "/Users/abubakar.siddiq/projects/oms_automation_test/features/steps/callback_ftp.py", line 2, in <module>
>     import requests
>   File "/Library/Python/2.7/site-packages/requests/__init__.py", line 58, in <module>
>     from . import utils
>   File "/Library/Python/2.7/site-packages/requests/utils.py", line 26, in <module>
>     from .compat import parse_http_list as _parse_list_header
>   File "/Library/Python/2.7/site-packages/requests/compat.py", line 42, in <module>
>     from .packages.urllib3.packages.ordered_dict import OrderedDict
>   File "/Library/Python/2.7/site-packages/requests/packages/__init__.py", line 95, in load_module
>     raise ImportError("No module named '%s'" % (name,))
> ImportError: No module named 'requests.packages.urllib3'

Ok, so the import requests works now. But my main goal is to make it work with my behave scenarios. It was working before until I did something which I am not sure what it is! So, when I try to run any of the behave scenarios, I get the listed error. 


From inkprs at gmail.com  Wed Apr  1 17:26:43 2015
From: inkprs at gmail.com (Rio)
Date: Wed, 1 Apr 2015 14:26:43 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: instance attribute "a" defined outside __init__
Message-ID: <f8a3fb6e-6878-4aec-9958-5394580ec0e4@googlegroups.com>

Hi, When running below code, I get error saying: 

instance attribute "a" defined outside __init__

    class Foo:

        var = 9

        def add(self, a, b):
            self.a = a
            self.b = b
            print a+b

        def __init__(self):
            print 10

    bar = Foo()  # create object

    bar.add(4, 7)  # call method by object.method

    print bar.var  # access class variable

why the output prints:

10
11
9

why not serially?

9
11
10


From gordon at panix.com  Wed Apr  1 17:37:25 2015
From: gordon at panix.com (John Gordon)
Date: Wed, 1 Apr 2015 21:37:25 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: instance attribute "a" defined outside __init__
References: <f8a3fb6e-6878-4aec-9958-5394580ec0e4@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <mfhoel$961$1@reader1.panix.com>

In <f8a3fb6e-6878-4aec-9958-5394580ec0e4 at googlegroups.com> Rio <inkprs at gmail.com> writes:

> Hi, When running below code, I get error saying: 

> instance attribute "a" defined outside __init__

That's a warning, not an error.  And it's a warning from pylint,
not from Python itself.

It's trying to suggest better style, that's all.  It's unusual to
define instance variables in functions other __init__.

>     class Foo:

>         var = 9

>         def add(self, a, b):
>             self.a = a
>             self.b = b
>             print a+b

>         def __init__(self):
>             print 10

>     bar = Foo()  # create object

>     bar.add(4, 7)  # call method by object.method

>     print bar.var  # access class variable

> why the output prints:

> 10
> 11
> 9

10 is printed by Foo.__init__(), when an instance of Foo is created.
11 is printed by calling bar.add(4, 7).
9 is printed by your statement 'print bar.var'.

Your program has those statements in that order, so they are printed
in that order.  Why did you expect a different order?

-- 
John Gordon         Imagine what it must be like for a real medical doctor to
gordon at panix.com    watch 'House', or a real serial killer to watch 'Dexter'.



From me at anonymous.invalid  Wed Apr  1 18:33:48 2015
From: me at anonymous.invalid (catperson)
Date: Wed, 01 Apr 2015 15:33:48 -0700
Subject: New to Programming - XML Processing
References: <upomhad4fj6sulnr5so8088fdqpo0nk6mu@4ax.com>
 <0b0fd795-8f3e-443e-acc2-aed9b5d200ba@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <m1rohap0fsb59e1pi8s806jo7i2recss17@4ax.com>

On Tue, 31 Mar 2015 21:17:38 -0700 (PDT), Rustom Mody
<rustompmody at gmail.com> wrote:

>On Wednesday, April 1, 2015 at 8:57:15 AM UTC+5:30, catperson wrote:
>> I am new to programming, though not new to computers.  I'm looking to
>> teach myself Python 3 and am working my way through a tutorial.  At
>> the point I'm at in the tutorial I am tasked with parsing out an XML
>> file created with a Garmin Forerunner and am just having a terrible
>> time getting my head around the concepts.  What I'm looking for is
>> some suggested reading that might give me some of the theory of
>> operation behind ElementTree and then how to parse out specific
>> elements.  Most of what I have been able to find in examples that I
>> can understand use very simplistic XML files and this Garmin file is
>> many levels of sub-elements and some of those elements have attributes
>> assigned, like <Activity Sport="Running">.
>> 
>> I'm hoping with enough reading I can experiment and work my way
>> through the problem and end up with a hopefully clear understanding of
>> the ElementTree module and Dictionairies.  
>> 
>> Thanks for any suggestions in advance.
>
>Suggestions:
>1. Learn to use the interpreter interactively; ie (at the least)? ie
>
>a. Start up python (without a program)
>b. Play around with trivial expressions
>c. Explore introspective features - help(), type() dir()
>
>2. Do you know about triple-quoted strings?
>a. Start small (or trivial) sub-parts of your XML as triple-quoted examples in the 
>interpreter and start throwing them at elementtree
>b. If they dont work trivialize further; if they work add complexity
>-----------
>? At the least because environments like Idle are more conducive to such playing

I thank everyone for their feedback.  I like the above advice and also
Rustom's other comments about learning dictionaries.  I'm thinking in
the back of my mind my issue might be more around the dictionary than
ElementTree at this point.  

 I'll fill in my situation a little based on the queries back to me.

I'm using a book, Python Programming Fundamentals by Kent D. Lee.  

http://knuth.luther.edu/~leekent/IntroToComputing/ 

It looks like he has updated his website since I last looked at it.  I
know there are many tutorials out there, however, I picked this one
and resolved to complete it start to finish.  That means a lot of side
research and reading, which I'm happy to do.  

I've got somewhat of a handle on the basic XML parsing process (my
opinion).  The book uses minidom, but my reading suggests that
ElementTree is a better option, so I thought I'd switch to that and
attempt to duplicate the exercise.

I understand this bit;

import xml.etree.ElementTree as etree
tree = etree.parse('workout.tcx')
root = tree.getroot()

and when I experiment and type root[1][1][0] in a console I can get
the ID field from the xml file with a start time for the workout. That
tells me it parsed properly.  I'm having trouble getting my head
around iterating over the elements, pulling out an activity element
with an attribute of either running or biking, then getting multiple
Trackpoint elements generated by the ForeRunner every 2 minutes, with
an ultimate goal of creating a graph using turtle graphics (later in
the exercise).

I initially thought my trouble was with parsing the xml, but now I'm
thinking my problem is I didn't pay enough attention to iterating over
a dictionary.  I will focus my efforts on Rustom's suggestions so
please don't give me a solution.  Some of my background is automotive
technician, and a statement by one of my instructors has stuck in my
mind over the years.  He said, a friends car won't start, do you take
booster cables or a can of gas with you?  If you understand the theory
of operation of an internal combustion engine, you can solve almost
any problem.

This is a small sample of the xml file.  It's 170239 lines currently.

<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8" standalone="no" ?>
<TrainingCenterDatabase
xmlns="http://www.garmin.com/xmlschemas/TrainingCenterDatabase/v2"
xmlns:xsi="http://www.w3.org/2001/XMLSchema-instance"
xsi:schemaLocation="http://www.garmin.com/xmlschemas/ActivityExtension/v2
http://www.garmin.com/xmlschemas/ActivityExtensionv2.xsd
http://www.garmin.com/xmlschemas/TrainingCenterDatabase/v2
http://www.garmin.com/xmlschemas/TrainingCenterDatabasev2.xsd">

  <Folders/>

  <Activities>
    <Activity Sport="Running">
      <Id>2011-06-06T12:21:04Z</Id>
      <Lap StartTime="2011-06-06T12:21:04Z">
        <TotalTimeSeconds>3283.1700000</TotalTimeSeconds>
        <DistanceMeters>4821.6821289</DistanceMeters>
        <MaximumSpeed>2.8058963</MaximumSpeed>
        <Calories>398</Calories>
        <AverageHeartRateBpm xsi:type="HeartRateInBeatsPerMinute_t">
          <Value>125</Value>
        </AverageHeartRateBpm>
        <MaximumHeartRateBpm xsi:type="HeartRateInBeatsPerMinute_t">
          <Value>167</Value>
        </MaximumHeartRateBpm>
        <Intensity>Active</Intensity>
        <TriggerMethod>Manual</TriggerMethod>
        <Track>
          <Trackpoint>
            <Time>2011-06-06T12:21:04Z</Time>
            <Position>
              <LatitudeDegrees>34.5225040</LatitudeDegrees>
              <LongitudeDegrees>-77.3563351</LongitudeDegrees>
            </Position>
            <AltitudeMeters>-0.3433838</AltitudeMeters>
            <DistanceMeters>0.0000000</DistanceMeters>
            <HeartRateBpm xsi:type="HeartRateInBeatsPerMinute_t">
              <Value>116</Value>
            </HeartRateBpm>
            <SensorState>Absent</SensorState>
          </Trackpoint>

Jim.


From leodavinci111 at gmail.com  Wed Apr  1 19:26:26 2015
From: leodavinci111 at gmail.com (leonardo davinci)
Date: Wed, 1 Apr 2015 16:26:26 -0700
Subject: Gpg python installer
Message-ID: <CAK9B2qgbiGkUAH3w2YMRuogOCQDq132QBXRbQWcP5o1jAxtNyA@mail.gmail.com>

I am using Kleopatra(gpg for win) to verify the 3.4.3 python installer,
Windows x86 MSI

><https:// <https://www.python.org/ftp/python/3.4.3/python-3.4.3.msi>
www.python.org <https://www.python.org/ftp/python/3.4.3/python-3.4.3.msi>
/ftp/python/3.4.3/
<https://www.python.org/ftp/python/3.4.3/python-3.4.3.msi>python-3.4.3.msi
<https://www.python.org/ftp/python/3.4.3/python-3.4.3.msi>>. This file does
not have a email in the digital signature and I am having trouble verifying
the validity of the download.

Any help would be appreciated.
>thanks
>Leo
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/attachments/20150401/14208088/attachment.html>

From sturla.molden at gmail.com  Wed Apr  1 19:51:16 2015
From: sturla.molden at gmail.com (Sturla Molden)
Date: Wed, 1 Apr 2015 23:51:16 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Lockfile hanling
References: <mfeu9p$c6l$1@dont-email.me>
 <CALwzid=V2bhLJjLCmySYRu+O3fdWR+d3AaMkeRuWoykO2cGQKQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1636137113449625036.504680sturla.molden-gmail.com@news.gmane.org>

Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly at gmail.com> wrote:

> As long as there's not *also* some other external process that needs
> to access the file occasionally. :-)

Then there is multiprocessing.Lock :)



From davea at davea.name  Wed Apr  1 19:51:47 2015
From: davea at davea.name (Dave Angel)
Date: Wed, 01 Apr 2015 19:51:47 -0400
Subject: Strategy/ Advice for How to Best Attack this Problem?
In-Reply-To: <fcd8bbbc-2d81-4797-aa0e-090683e72f3f@googlegroups.com>
References: <b803183b-6da5-4907-825d-9386b2bc2798@googlegroups.com>
 <87a8yvs34u.fsf@jester.gateway.pace.com>
 <mailman.323.1427681070.10327.python-list@python.org>
 <bc19cb8e-9e4f-48a7-a9f5-4b39db09a7ce@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.344.1427740538.10327.python-list@python.org>
 <0623f75c-bf93-4a0f-9d87-86986185cdc3@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.371.1427807964.10327.python-list@python.org>
 <fcd8bbbc-2d81-4797-aa0e-090683e72f3f@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <551C8493.8000500@davea.name>

On 04/01/2015 09:43 AM, Saran A wrote:
> On Tuesday, March 31, 2015 at 9:19:37 AM UTC-4, Dave Angel wrote:
>> On 03/31/2015 07:00 AM, Saran A wrote:
>>
>>   > @DaveA: This is a homework assignment. .... Is it possible that you
>> could provide me with some snippets or guidance on where to place your
>> suggestions (for your TO DOs 2,3,4,5)?
>>   >
>>
>>
>>> On Monday, March 30, 2015 at 2:36:02 PM UTC-4, Dave Angel wrote:
>>
>>>>
>>>> It's missing a number of your requirements.  But it's a start.
>>>>
>>>> If it were my file, I'd have a TODO comment at the bottom stating known
>>>> changes that are needed.  In it, I'd mention:
>>>>
>>>> 1) your present code is assuming all filenames come directly from the
>>>> commandline.  No searching of a directory.
>>>>
>>>> 2) your present code does not move any files to success or failure
>>>> directories
>>>>
>>
>> In function validate_files()
>> Just after the line
>>                   print('success with %s on %d reco...
>> you could move the file, using shutil.  Likewise after the failure print.
>>
>>>> 3) your present code doesn't calculate or write to a text file any
>>>> statistics.
>>
>> You successfully print to sys.stderr.  So you could print to some other
>> file in the exact same way.
>>
>>>>
>>>> 4) your present code runs once through the names, and terminates.  It
>>>> doesn't "monitor" anything.
>>
>> Make a new function, perhaps called main(), with a loop that calls
>> validate_files(), with a sleep after each pass.  Of course, unless you
>> fix TODO#1, that'll keep looking for the same files.  No harm in that if
>> that's the spec, since you moved the earlier versions of the files.
>>
>> But if you want to "monitor" the directory, let the directory name be
>> the argument to main, and let main do a dirlist each time through the
>> loop, and pass the corresponding list to validate_files.
>>
>>>>
>>>> 5) your present code doesn't check for zero-length files
>>>>
>>
>> In validate_and_process_data(), instead of checking filesize against
>> ftell, check it against zero.
>>
>>>> I'd also wonder why you bother checking whether the
>>>> os.path.getsize(file) function returns the same value as the os.SEEK_END
>>>> and ftell() code does.  Is it that you don't trust the library?  Or that
>>>> you have to run on Windows, where the line-ending logic can change the
>>>> apparent file size?
>>>>
>>>> I notice you're not specifying a file mode on the open.  So in Python 3,
>>>> your sizes are going to be specified in unicode characters after
>>>> decoding.  Is that what the spec says?  It's probably safer to
>>>> explicitly specify the mode (and the file encoding if you're in text).
>>>>
>>>> I see you call strip() before comparing the length.  Could there ever be
>>>> leading or trailing whitespace that's significant?  Is that the actual
>>>> specification of line size?
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> DaveA
>>>
>>>
>>
>>> I ask this because I have been searching fruitlessly through for some time and there are so many permutations that I am bamboozled by which is considered best practice.
>>>
>>> Moreover, as to the other comments, those are too specific. The scope of the assignment is very limited, but I am learning what I need to look out or ask questions regarding specs - in the future.
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> DaveA
>
> @DaveA
>
> My most recent commit (https://github.com/ahlusar1989/WGProjects/blob/master/P1version2.0withassumptions_mods.py) has more annotations and comments for each file.

Perhaps you don't realize how github works.  The whole point is it 
preserves the history of your code, and you use the same filename for 
each revision.

Or possibly it's I that doesn't understand it.  I use git, but haven't 
actually used github for my own code.

>
> I have attempted to address the functional requirements that you brought up:
>
> 1) Before, my present code was assuming all filenames come directly from the commandline.  No searching of a directory. I think that I have addressed this.
>

Have you even tried to run the code?  It quits immediately with an 
exception since your call to main() doesn't pass any arguments, and main 
requires one.

 > def main(dirslist):
 >     while True:
 >         for file in dirslist:
 >         	return validate_files(file)
 >         	time.sleep(5)

In addition, you aren't actually doing anything to find what the files 
in the directory are.  I tried to refer to dirlist, as a hint.  A 
stronger hint:  look up  os.listdir()

And that list of files has to change each time through the while loop, 
that's the whole meaning of scanning.  You don't just grab the names 
once, you look to see what's there.

The next thing is that you're using a variable called 'file', while 
that's a built-in type in Python.  So you really want to use a different 
name.

Next, you have a loop through the magical dirslist to get individual 
filenames, but then you call the validate_files() function with a single 
file, but that function is expecting a list of filenames.  One or the 
other has to change.

Next, you return from main after validating the first file, so no others 
will get processed.

> 2) My present code does not move any files to success or failure directories (requirements for this assignment1). I am still wondering if and how I should use shututil() like you advised me to. I keep receiving a syntax error when declaring this below the print statement.

You had a function to do that in your very first post to this thread. 
Have you forgotten it already?  As for syntax errors, you can't expect 
any help on that when you don't show any code nor the syntax error 
traceback.  Remember that when a syntax error is shown, it's frequently 
the previous line or two that actually was wrong.

>
> 3) You correctly reminded me that my present code doesn't calculate or write to a text file any statistics or errors for the cause of the error.

 > #I wrote an error class in case the I needed such a specification for 
a notifcation - this is not in the requirements
 > class ErrorHandler:
 >
 >     def __init__(self):
 >         pass
 >
 >     def write(self, string):
 >
 >         # write error to file
 >         fname = " Error report (" + time.strftime("%Y-%m-%d %I-%M%p") 
+ ").txt"
 >         handler = open(fname, "w")
 >         handler.write(string)
 >         handler.close()




This looks like Java code.  With no data attributes, and only one 
method(function), what's the reason you don't just use a function?


original_stderr = sys.stderr # stored in case want to revert
sys.stderr = ErrorHandler()

This is just bogus.  There are rare times when a programmer might want 
to replace stderr, but that's just unnecessarily confusing in a program 
like this one.  When you want to write printable data to another file, 
just use that file's handle as the argument to the file= argument of 
print().  You could use an instance of ErrorHandler as a file handle. 
Or do it one of a dozen other straightforward ways.

While we're at it, why do you keep creating new files for your error 
report?  And overwriting all the old messages with whatever new ones 
come in the same minute?


> (Should I use the copy or copy2 method in order provide metadata? If so, should I wrap it into a try and except logic?)

No idea what you mean here.  What metadata?  And what do copy and copy2 
have to do with anything here?

>
> 4) Before, my present code runs once through the names, and terminates.  It doesn't "monitor" anything. I think I have addressed this with the  main function - correct?
>
Not even close.

> 5) Before, my present code doesn't check for zero-length files  - I have added a comment there in case that is needed)
>
> I realize appreciate your invaluable feedback. I have grown a lot with this assignment!
>
> Sincerely,
>
> Saran
>


-- 
DaveA


From sohcahtoa82 at gmail.com  Wed Apr  1 20:46:17 2015
From: sohcahtoa82 at gmail.com (sohcahtoa82 at gmail.com)
Date: Wed, 1 Apr 2015 17:46:17 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: New to Programming - XML Processing
In-Reply-To: <m1rohap0fsb59e1pi8s806jo7i2recss17@4ax.com>
References: <upomhad4fj6sulnr5so8088fdqpo0nk6mu@4ax.com>
 <0b0fd795-8f3e-443e-acc2-aed9b5d200ba@googlegroups.com>
 <m1rohap0fsb59e1pi8s806jo7i2recss17@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <5ca90f79-4e98-46d9-a971-2db8e8585ef0@googlegroups.com>

On Wednesday, April 1, 2015 at 3:34:15 PM UTC-7, catperson wrote:
> On Tue, 31 Mar 2015 21:17:38 -0700 (PDT), Rustom Mody
> <rustompmody at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> >On Wednesday, April 1, 2015 at 8:57:15 AM UTC+5:30, catperson wrote:
> >> I am new to programming, though not new to computers.  I'm looking to
> >> teach myself Python 3 and am working my way through a tutorial.  At
> >> the point I'm at in the tutorial I am tasked with parsing out an XML
> >> file created with a Garmin Forerunner and am just having a terrible
> >> time getting my head around the concepts.  What I'm looking for is
> >> some suggested reading that might give me some of the theory of
> >> operation behind ElementTree and then how to parse out specific
> >> elements.  Most of what I have been able to find in examples that I
> >> can understand use very simplistic XML files and this Garmin file is
> >> many levels of sub-elements and some of those elements have attributes
> >> assigned, like <Activity Sport="Running">.
> >> 
> >> I'm hoping with enough reading I can experiment and work my way
> >> through the problem and end up with a hopefully clear understanding of
> >> the ElementTree module and Dictionairies.  
> >> 
> >> Thanks for any suggestions in advance.
> >
> >Suggestions:
> >1. Learn to use the interpreter interactively; ie (at the least)? ie
> >
> >a. Start up python (without a program)
> >b. Play around with trivial expressions
> >c. Explore introspective features - help(), type() dir()
> >
> >2. Do you know about triple-quoted strings?
> >a. Start small (or trivial) sub-parts of your XML as triple-quoted examples in the 
> >interpreter and start throwing them at elementtree
> >b. If they dont work trivialize further; if they work add complexity
> >-----------
> >? At the least because environments like Idle are more conducive to such playing
> 
> I thank everyone for their feedback.  I like the above advice and also
> Rustom's other comments about learning dictionaries.  I'm thinking in
> the back of my mind my issue might be more around the dictionary than
> ElementTree at this point.  
> 
>  I'll fill in my situation a little based on the queries back to me.
> 
> I'm using a book, Python Programming Fundamentals by Kent D. Lee.  
> 
> http://knuth.luther.edu/~leekent/IntroToComputing/ 
> 
> It looks like he has updated his website since I last looked at it.  I
> know there are many tutorials out there, however, I picked this one
> and resolved to complete it start to finish.  That means a lot of side
> research and reading, which I'm happy to do.  
> 
> I've got somewhat of a handle on the basic XML parsing process (my
> opinion).  The book uses minidom, but my reading suggests that
> ElementTree is a better option, so I thought I'd switch to that and
> attempt to duplicate the exercise.
> 
> I understand this bit;
> 
> import xml.etree.ElementTree as etree
> tree = etree.parse('workout.tcx')
> root = tree.getroot()
> 
<snip>
>               <LatitudeDegrees>34.5225040</LatitudeDegrees>
>               <LongitudeDegrees>-77.3563351</LongitudeDegrees>
<snip>
> Jim.

This is on the coast of North Carolina, for anyone curious, just south of Snead's Ferry.


From mr.smittye at gmail.com  Wed Apr  1 22:22:28 2015
From: mr.smittye at gmail.com (E Smitty)
Date: Wed, 1 Apr 2015 19:22:28 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Gpg python installer
In-Reply-To: <mailman.14.1427930788.12925.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.14.1427930788.12925.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <e251ef49-3365-4658-9e5d-68a3978c64c0@googlegroups.com>

On Wednesday, April 1, 2015 at 4:26:40 PM UTC-7, leonardo davinci wrote:
> I am using Kleopatra(gpg for win) to verify the 3.4.3 python installer, Windows x86 MSI
> 
> ><https://www.python.org/ftp/python/3.4.3/python-3.4.3.msi>. This file does not have a email in the digital signaure and I am having trouble verifying the validity of the download.
> 
> Any help would be appreciated.
> 
> >thanks
> 
> >Leo

Could you tell us what steps you have taken?


From nad at acm.org  Thu Apr  2 03:13:22 2015
From: nad at acm.org (Ned Deily)
Date: Thu, 02 Apr 2015 00:13:22 -0700
Subject: Gpg python installer
References: <CAK9B2qgbiGkUAH3w2YMRuogOCQDq132QBXRbQWcP5o1jAxtNyA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <nad-08BC1F.00132202042015@news.gmane.org>

In article 
<CAK9B2qgbiGkUAH3w2YMRuogOCQDq132QBXRbQWcP5o1jAxtNyA at mail.gmail.com>,
 leonardo davinci <leodavinci111 at gmail.com> wrote:
> I am using Kleopatra(gpg for win) to verify the 3.4.3 python installer,
> Windows x86 MSI
> 
> ><https:// <https://www.python.org/ftp/python/3.4.3/python-3.4.3.msi>
> www.python.org <https://www.python.org/ftp/python/3.4.3/python-3.4.3.msi>
> /ftp/python/3.4.3/
> <https://www.python.org/ftp/python/3.4.3/python-3.4.3.msi>python-3.4.3.msi
> <https://www.python.org/ftp/python/3.4.3/python-3.4.3.msi>>. This file does
> not have a email in the digital signature and I am having trouble verifying
> the validity of the download.

Unfortunately, verifying the PGP signature of release files isn't the 
most user-friendly process, especially on Windows.  The release files 
from python.org are typically PGP-signed in armored detached signature 
files, in other words, for each release file (like python-3.4.3.msi) 
there is a separate signature file with an appended .asc extension 
(python-3.4.3.msi.asc).  If you go to the python.org downloads page 
(https://www.python.org/downloads/) and click on the release in 
question, it should take you to the page for the release 
(https://www.python.org/downloads/release/python-343/).  Near the bottom 
of the page, there is a list of downloadable files and to the right of 
each one there is a "GPG" column with a "SIG" link for each file.  
Clicking on the SIG link should download the corresponding signature 
file (python-3.4.3.msi.asc).  I'm not familiar with Kleopatra's 
interface but normally you'd want to download both the installer file 
and its asc file to the same directory/folder and then tell the GPG 
program to verify the asc file.  The PGP/GPG program will also need to 
have access to the public keys of the creators / signers of the 
downloadable files.  You will find them listed near the bottom of the 
Downloads page (https://www.python.org/downloads/).

Independently thereof, the python.org Windows installer files are also 
signed with a public-key code signing certificate that should be 
automatically verified by the Windows installer program.  (Likewise, for 
the Mac OS X installer files.)

Hope this helps!

-- 
 Ned Deily,
 nad at acm.org



From ahlusar.ahluwalia at gmail.com  Thu Apr  2 08:02:55 2015
From: ahlusar.ahluwalia at gmail.com (Saran A)
Date: Thu, 2 Apr 2015 05:02:55 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: New to Programming: TypeError: coercing to Unicode: need string or
 buffer, list found
Message-ID: <6203299c-f9b2-4169-9d68-4c92e0f7b32f@googlegroups.com>

Good Morning:

I understand this error message when I run this code. However, I am curious to know what the most pythonic way is to convert  the list to a string? I use Python 2.7.

"Traceback (most recent call last):
before = dict([(f, None) for f in os.listdir(dirlist)])
TypeError: coercing to Unicode: need string or buffer, list found"


The sample code that I am trying to run is:

path = "/Users/Desktop/Projects/"
dirlist = os.listdir(path)
before = dict([(f, None) for f in os.listdir(dirlist)])

def main(dirlist):
    while True:
        time.sleep(10) #time between update check
    after = dict([(f, None) for f in os.listdir(dirlist)])
    added = [f for f in after if not f in before]
    if added:
        print('Successfully added new file - ready to validate')
if __name__ == "__main__": 
    main() 






From rosuav at gmail.com  Thu Apr  2 08:24:54 2015
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Thu, 2 Apr 2015 23:24:54 +1100
Subject: New to Programming: TypeError: coercing to Unicode: need string
 or buffer, list found
In-Reply-To: <6203299c-f9b2-4169-9d68-4c92e0f7b32f@googlegroups.com>
References: <6203299c-f9b2-4169-9d68-4c92e0f7b32f@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmp2=CDLKGeBHthzeTGv6pXNWror_0hy+kv6Y400xpaeGQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Apr 2, 2015 at 11:02 PM, Saran A <ahlusar.ahluwalia at gmail.com> wrote:
> I understand this error message when I run this code. However, I am curious to know what the most pythonic way is to convert  the list to a string? I use Python 2.7.
>

I don't think you actually want to convert a list into a string, here.
Tell me if I'm understanding your code's intention correctly:

> The sample code that I am trying to run is:
>
> path = "/Users/Desktop/Projects/"
> dirlist = os.listdir(path)
> before = dict([(f, None) for f in os.listdir(dirlist)])

Start up and get a full list of pre-existing files.

> def main(dirlist):
>     while True:
>         time.sleep(10) #time between update check

Then, every ten seconds...

>     after = dict([(f, None) for f in os.listdir(dirlist)])
>     added = [f for f in after if not f in before]

... get a list of files, and if there are new ones...

>     if added:
>         print('Successfully added new file - ready to validate')
> if __name__ == "__main__":
>     main()

... print out a message.

If that's what you're trying to do, I would suggest using a directory
notification system instead. Here's one that I use on Linux:

https://github.com/Rosuav/shed/blob/master/dirwatch.py

Here's another one, this time built for Windows:

https://github.com/Rosuav/shed/blob/master/senddir.py

But even if you absolutely have to poll, like that, you'll need to
make a few code changes. The exception you're getting is symptomatic
of just one problem with the code as published. My suspicion is that
you just want to use listdir(path) rather than listdir(dirlist) - but
if you want subdirectories, then you'll need to do things a bit
differently (probably using os.walk instead).

Also: You say you're using Python 2.7. If you have no particular
reason to use 2.7, you'll do better to jump to Python 3. Your code
will probably run identically, when it's this simple.

ChrisA


From __peter__ at web.de  Thu Apr  2 08:26:21 2015
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Thu, 02 Apr 2015 14:26:21 +0200
Subject: New to Programming: TypeError: coercing to Unicode: need string
 or buffer, list found
References: <6203299c-f9b2-4169-9d68-4c92e0f7b32f@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <mfjchf$660$1@ger.gmane.org>

Saran A wrote:

> Good Morning:
> 
> I understand this error message when I run this code. However, I am
> curious to know what the most pythonic way is to convert  the list to a
> string? I use Python 2.7.
> 
> "Traceback (most recent call last):
> before = dict([(f, None) for f in os.listdir(dirlist)])
> TypeError: coercing to Unicode: need string or buffer, list found"
> 
> 
> The sample code that I am trying to run is:
> 
> path = "/Users/Desktop/Projects/"
> dirlist = os.listdir(path)

At this point dirlist is a list of names of the files and directories in 

"/Users/Desktop/Projects/"

Assuming that the Projects folder contains the subfolders or files
/Users/Desktop/Projects/foo, /Users/Desktop/Projects/bar and 
/Users/Desktop/Projects/baz dirlist looks like this:

["foo", "bar", "baz"]

It makes no sense to pass this list to os.listdir() as you do below:

> before = dict([(f, None) for f in os.listdir(dirlist)])

Forget about the other details in the error message; the actual problem is 
the "list found" part.

Now what would be a possible fix? Sorry, I have no idea what your intention 
is. Again, you don't need to convert your list to string, you need to decide 
what directory you want to pass to listdir(). If you have multiple such 
directories you need to invoke listdir() multiple times with a single 
directory, typically in a loop.

Bonus info:

>     while True:
>         time.sleep(10) #time between update check
 
This loop will never terminate.



From fomcl at yahoo.com  Thu Apr  2 08:42:18 2015
From: fomcl at yahoo.com (Albert-Jan Roskam)
Date: Thu, 2 Apr 2015 05:42:18 -0700
Subject: New to Programming - XML Processing
Message-ID: <1427978538.23367.BPMail_high_carrier@web163804.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>


-----------------------------
On Wed, Apr 1, 2015 10:00 AM CEST Mark Lawrence wrote:

>On 01/04/2015 05:27, Andrew Farrell wrote:
>> You should follow Rustom's advice before just diving into the blog post
>> I linked to. Otherwise you risk blindly following things and losing your
>> bearings when you run into bugs.
>> 
>
>Sound advice, but would you please be kind enough to intersperse your answers or bottom post as top posting is heavily frowned upon here.
>
>TIA.

Would it be possible to use a script that checks every incoming mail to the Python mail list? Main ingredients beatfilsoup (to textify HTML mails) and difflib (to check whether replies contain parts of the original message, and that no top posting happens)

Just an idea.

Albert-Jan




>-- My fellow Pythonistas, ask not what our language can do for you, ask
>what you can do for our language.
>
>Mark Lawrence
>
>-- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list



From ahlusar.ahluwalia at gmail.com  Thu Apr  2 08:46:57 2015
From: ahlusar.ahluwalia at gmail.com (Saran A)
Date: Thu, 2 Apr 2015 05:46:57 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: New to Programming: TypeError: coercing to Unicode: need string
 or buffer, list found
In-Reply-To: <mailman.18.1427977502.12925.python-list@python.org>
References: <6203299c-f9b2-4169-9d68-4c92e0f7b32f@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.18.1427977502.12925.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <57693d65-e683-4972-ac8d-97b2feace3bb@googlegroups.com>

On Thursday, April 2, 2015 at 8:26:01 AM UTC-4, Chris Angelico wrote:
> On Thu, Apr 2, 2015 at 11:02 PM, Saran A <ahlusar.ahluwalia at gmail.com> wrote:
> > I understand this error message when I run this code. However, I am curious to know what the most pythonic way is to convert  the list to a string? I use Python 2.7.
> >
> 
> I don't think you actually want to convert a list into a string, here.
> Tell me if I'm understanding your code's intention correctly:
> 
> > The sample code that I am trying to run is:
> >
> > path = "/Users/Desktop/Projects/"
> > dirlist = os.listdir(path)
> > before = dict([(f, None) for f in os.listdir(dirlist)])
> 
> Start up and get a full list of pre-existing files.
> 
> > def main(dirlist):
> >     while True:
> >         time.sleep(10) #time between update check
> 
> Then, every ten seconds...
> 
> >     after = dict([(f, None) for f in os.listdir(dirlist)])
> >     added = [f for f in after if not f in before]
> 
> ... get a list of files, and if there are new ones...
> 
> >     if added:
> >         print('Successfully added new file - ready to validate')
> > if __name__ == "__main__":
> >     main()
> 
> ... print out a message.
> 
> If that's what you're trying to do, I would suggest using a directory
> notification system instead. Here's one that I use on Linux:
> 
> https://github.com/Rosuav/shed/blob/master/dirwatch.py
> 
> Here's another one, this time built for Windows:
> 
> https://github.com/Rosuav/shed/blob/master/senddir.py
> 
> But even if you absolutely have to poll, like that, you'll need to
> make a few code changes. The exception you're getting is symptomatic
> of just one problem with the code as published. My suspicion is that
> you just want to use listdir(path) rather than listdir(dirlist) - but
> if you want subdirectories, then you'll need to do things a bit
> differently (probably using os.walk instead).
> 
> Also: You say you're using Python 2.7. If you have no particular
> reason to use 2.7, you'll do better to jump to Python 3. Your code
> will probably run identically, when it's this simple.
> 
> ChrisA

@ChrisA - this is a smaller function that will take the most updated file. My intention is the following:

* Monitor a folder for files that are dropped throughout the day

* When a file is dropped in the folder the program should scan the file

o IF all the contents in the file have the same length (let's assume line length)

o THEN the file should be moved to a "success" folder and a text file written indicating the total number of records/lines/words processed

o IF the file is empty OR the contents are not all of the same length

o THEN the file should be moved to a "failure" folder and a text file written indicating the cause for failure (for example: Empty file or line 100 was not the same length as the rest).

Here is the code I have written:

import os
import time
import glob
import sys

def initialize_logger(output_dir):
    logger = logging.getLogger()
    logger.setLevel(logging.DEBUG)
     
    # create console handler and set level to info
    handler = logging.StreamHandler()
    handler.setLevel(logging.INFO)
    formatter = logging.Formatter("%(levelname)s - %(message)s")
    handler.setFormatter(formatter)
    logger.addHandler(handler)
 
    # create error file handler and set level to error
    handler = logging.FileHandler(os.path.join(output_dir, "error.log"),"w", encoding=None, delay="true")
    handler.setLevel(logging.ERROR)
    formatter = logging.Formatter("%(levelname)s - %(message)s")
    handler.setFormatter(formatter)
    logger.addHandler(handler)

    # create debug file handler and set level to debug
    handler = logging.FileHandler(os.path.join(output_dir, "all.log"),"w")
    handler.setLevel(logging.DEBUG)
    formatter = logging.Formatter("%(levelname)s - %(message)s")
    handler.setFormatter(formatter)
    logger.addHandler(handler)

#Helper Functions for the Success and Failure Folder Outcomes, respectively

#checks the length of the file
    def file_len(filename
        with open(filename) as f:
            for i, l in enumerate(f):
                pass
            return i + 1

#copies file to new destination

    def copyFile(src, dest):
        try:
            shutil.copy(src, dest)
        # eg. src and dest are the same file
        except shutil.Error as e:
            print('Error: %s' % e)
        # eg. source or destination doesn't exist
        except IOError as e:
            print('Error: %s' % e.strerror)

#Failure Folder

def move_to_failure_folder_and_return_error_file():
    os.mkdir('Failure')
    copyFile(filename, 'Failure')
    initialize_logger('rootdir/Failure')
    logging.error("Either this file is empty or the lines")
     
# Success Folder Requirement
             
def move_to_success_folder_and_read(file):
    os.mkdir('Success')
    copyFile(filename, 'Success')
    print("Success", file)
    return file_len()


#This simply checks the file information by name

def fileinfo(file):
    filename = os.path.basename(file)
    rootdir = os.path.dirname(file)
    lastmod = time.ctime(os.path.getmtime(file))
    creation = time.ctime(os.path.getctime(file))
    filesize = os.path.getsize(file)
    return filename, rootdir, lastmod, creation, filesize

if __name__ == '__main__':
   import sys
   validate_files(sys.argv[1:])


From ahlusar.ahluwalia at gmail.com  Thu Apr  2 08:51:50 2015
From: ahlusar.ahluwalia at gmail.com (Saran A)
Date: Thu, 2 Apr 2015 05:51:50 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: New to Programming: TypeError: coercing to Unicode: need string
 or buffer, list found
In-Reply-To: <mailman.19.1427977593.12925.python-list@python.org>
References: <6203299c-f9b2-4169-9d68-4c92e0f7b32f@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.19.1427977593.12925.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1f248f13-92f6-40d3-8d9e-a94677d4d003@googlegroups.com>

On Thursday, April 2, 2015 at 8:26:51 AM UTC-4, Peter Otten wrote:
> Saran A wrote:
> 
> > Good Morning:
> > 
> > I understand this error message when I run this code. However, I am
> > curious to know what the most pythonic way is to convert  the list to a
> > string? I use Python 2.7.
> > 
> > "Traceback (most recent call last):
> > before = dict([(f, None) for f in os.listdir(dirlist)])
> > TypeError: coercing to Unicode: need string or buffer, list found"
> > 
> > 
> > The sample code that I am trying to run is:
> > 
> > path = "/Users/Desktop/Projects/"
> > dirlist = os.listdir(path)
> 
> At this point dirlist is a list of names of the files and directories in 
> 
> "/Users/Desktop/Projects/"
> 
> Assuming that the Projects folder contains the subfolders or files
> /Users/Desktop/Projects/foo, /Users/Desktop/Projects/bar and 
> /Users/Desktop/Projects/baz dirlist looks like this:
> 
> ["foo", "bar", "baz"]
> 
> It makes no sense to pass this list to os.listdir() as you do below:
> 
> > before = dict([(f, None) for f in os.listdir(dirlist)])
> 
> Forget about the other details in the error message; the actual problem is 
> the "list found" part.
> 
> Now what would be a possible fix? Sorry, I have no idea what your intention 
> is. Again, you don't need to convert your list to string, you need to decide 
> what directory you want to pass to listdir(). If you have multiple such 
> directories you need to invoke listdir() multiple times with a single 
> directory, typically in a loop.
> 
> Bonus info:
> 
> >     while True:
> >         time.sleep(10) #time between update check
>  
> This loop will never terminate.

@Peter I understand that the intention of this program is to not terminate. Here is what I have written so far:

I thought I would run this by you, since you offer such valuable feedback, in the past. Just a quick rundown on what I want my program to do:

* Monitor a folder for files that are dropped throughout the day

* When a file is dropped in the folder the program should scan the file

o IF all the contents in the file have the same length (let's assume line length)

o THEN the file should be moved to a "success" folder and a text file written indicating the total number of records/lines/words processed

o IF the file is empty OR the contents are not all of the same length

o THEN the file should be moved to a "failure" folder and a text file written indicating the cause for failure (for example: Empty file or line 100 was not the same length as the rest).

Here is the code I have written:

import os
import time
import glob
import sys

def initialize_logger(output_dir):
    logger = logging.getLogger()
    logger.setLevel(logging.DEBUG)
     
    # create console handler and set level to info
    handler = logging.StreamHandler()
    handler.setLevel(logging.INFO)
    formatter = logging.Formatter("%(levelname)s - %(message)s")
    handler.setFormatter(formatter)
    logger.addHandler(handler)
 
    # create error file handler and set level to error
    handler = logging.FileHandler(os.path.join(output_dir, "error.log"),"w", encoding=None, delay="true")
    handler.setLevel(logging.ERROR)
    formatter = logging.Formatter("%(levelname)s - %(message)s")
    handler.setFormatter(formatter)
    logger.addHandler(handler)

    # create debug file handler and set level to debug
    handler = logging.FileHandler(os.path.join(output_dir, "all.log"),"w")
    handler.setLevel(logging.DEBUG)
    formatter = logging.Formatter("%(levelname)s - %(message)s")
    handler.setFormatter(formatter)
    logger.addHandler(handler)


def main(dirslist):     
    while True:
        for file in os.listdir(dirslist) :
        	return validate_files(file)
        	time.sleep(5)

if __name__ == "__main__": 
    main() 


#Helper Functions for the Success and Failure Folder Outcomes, respectively

#checks the length of the file
    def file_len(filename
        with open(filename) as f:
            for i, l in enumerate(f):
                pass
            return i + 1

#copies file to new destination

    def copyFile(src, dest):
        try:
            shutil.copy(src, dest)
        # eg. src and dest are the same file
        except shutil.Error as e:
            print('Error: %s' % e)
        # eg. source or destination doesn't exist
        except IOError as e:
            print('Error: %s' % e.strerror)

#Failure Folder

def move_to_failure_folder_and_return_error_file():
    os.mkdir('Failure')
    copyFile(filename, 'Failure')
    initialize_logger('rootdir/Failure')
    logging.error("Either this file is empty or the lines")
     
# Success Folder Requirement
             
def move_to_success_folder_and_read(file):
    os.mkdir('Success')
    copyFile(filename, 'Success')
    print("Success", file)
    return file_len()

#This simply checks the file information by name

def fileinfo(file):
    filename = os.path.basename(file)
    rootdir = os.path.dirname(file)
    lastmod = time.ctime(os.path.getmtime(file))
    creation = time.ctime(os.path.getctime(file))
    filesize = os.path.getsize(file)
    return filename, rootdir, lastmod, creation, filesize

if __name__ == '__main__':
   import sys
   validate_files(sys.argv[1:])



I am trying to specifically address the fact that the program does not:

The present code does not move any files to success or failure directories (I have added functions at the end that could serve to address this requirement)

The present code doesn't calculate or write to a text file. 

The present code runs once through the names, and terminates.  It doesn't "monitor" anything  - I think that I have added the correct while loop to address this

The present code doesn't check for zero-length files 

-Saran-



From rosuav at gmail.com  Thu Apr  2 09:06:31 2015
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Fri, 3 Apr 2015 00:06:31 +1100
Subject: New to Programming: TypeError: coercing to Unicode: need string
 or buffer, list found
In-Reply-To: <57693d65-e683-4972-ac8d-97b2feace3bb@googlegroups.com>
References: <6203299c-f9b2-4169-9d68-4c92e0f7b32f@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.18.1427977502.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <57693d65-e683-4972-ac8d-97b2feace3bb@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmrM1hXxi6xDC1koo_xnyjY1GTDPTWg8pstCGCPyuptixg@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Apr 2, 2015 at 11:46 PM, Saran A <ahlusar.ahluwalia at gmail.com> wrote:
> @ChrisA - this is a smaller function that will take the most updated file. My intention is the following:
>
> * Monitor a folder for files that are dropped throughout the day
>
> * When a file is dropped in the folder the program should scan the file
>
> o IF all the contents in the file have the same length (let's assume line length)
>
> o THEN the file should be moved to a "success" folder and a text file written indicating the total number of records/lines/words processed
>
> o IF the file is empty OR the contents are not all of the same length
>
> o THEN the file should be moved to a "failure" folder and a text file written indicating the cause for failure (for example: Empty file or line 100 was not the same length as the rest).
>

Sounds like a perfect job for inotify, then. Your function will be
called whenever there's a new file.

> Here is the code I have written:
>
> def initialize_logger(output_dir):
>     logger = logging.getLogger()
>     ...
>     def file_len(filename
>         with open(filename) as f:
>             for i, l in enumerate(f):
>                 pass
>             return i + 1

These functions are all getting defined inside your
initialize_logger() function. I suspect you want them to be flush left
instead.

>     def copyFile(src, dest):
>         try:
>             shutil.copy(src, dest)
>         # eg. src and dest are the same file
>         except shutil.Error as e:
>             print('Error: %s' % e)
>         # eg. source or destination doesn't exist
>         except IOError as e:
>             print('Error: %s' % e.strerror)

Recommendation: Skip the try/except, and just let exceptions bubble
up. Don't just print out messages and keep going.

> def move_to_failure_folder_and_return_error_file():
>     os.mkdir('Failure')
>     copyFile(filename, 'Failure')
>     initialize_logger('rootdir/Failure')
>     logging.error("Either this file is empty or the lines")

This doesn't move the file, it copies it. Is that your intention?

Moving a file is pretty easy. Just use os.rename().

> if __name__ == '__main__':
>    import sys
>    validate_files(sys.argv[1:])

I've no idea what validate_files() does, as you haven't included that.

I think you could code this fairly efficiently as a simple callback
off pyinotify, or if you're not on Linux, with one of the equivalent
services. What you're doing here (watching for files, looking inside
them, and moving them when done) is pretty common around the world.

ChrisA


From ahlusar.ahluwalia at gmail.com  Thu Apr  2 09:06:53 2015
From: ahlusar.ahluwalia at gmail.com (Saran A)
Date: Thu, 2 Apr 2015 06:06:53 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Strategy/ Advice for How to Best Attack this Problem?
In-Reply-To: <mailman.16.1427932335.12925.python-list@python.org>
References: <b803183b-6da5-4907-825d-9386b2bc2798@googlegroups.com>
 <87a8yvs34u.fsf@jester.gateway.pace.com>
 <mailman.323.1427681070.10327.python-list@python.org>
 <bc19cb8e-9e4f-48a7-a9f5-4b39db09a7ce@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.344.1427740538.10327.python-list@python.org>
 <0623f75c-bf93-4a0f-9d87-86986185cdc3@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.371.1427807964.10327.python-list@python.org>
 <fcd8bbbc-2d81-4797-aa0e-090683e72f3f@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.16.1427932335.12925.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <ba29c06d-3cdc-412e-90a0-b1119a360570@googlegroups.com>

On Wednesday, April 1, 2015 at 7:52:27 PM UTC-4, Dave Angel wrote:
> On 04/01/2015 09:43 AM, Saran A wrote:
> > On Tuesday, March 31, 2015 at 9:19:37 AM UTC-4, Dave Angel wrote:
> >> On 03/31/2015 07:00 AM, Saran A wrote:
> >>
> >>   > @DaveA: This is a homework assignment. .... Is it possible that you
> >> could provide me with some snippets or guidance on where to place your
> >> suggestions (for your TO DOs 2,3,4,5)?
> >>   >
> >>
> >>
> >>> On Monday, March 30, 2015 at 2:36:02 PM UTC-4, Dave Angel wrote:
> >>
> >>>>
> >>>> It's missing a number of your requirements.  But it's a start.
> >>>>
> >>>> If it were my file, I'd have a TODO comment at the bottom stating known
> >>>> changes that are needed.  In it, I'd mention:
> >>>>
> >>>> 1) your present code is assuming all filenames come directly from the
> >>>> commandline.  No searching of a directory.
> >>>>
> >>>> 2) your present code does not move any files to success or failure
> >>>> directories
> >>>>
> >>
> >> In function validate_files()
> >> Just after the line
> >>                   print('success with %s on %d reco...
> >> you could move the file, using shutil.  Likewise after the failure print.
> >>
> >>>> 3) your present code doesn't calculate or write to a text file any
> >>>> statistics.
> >>
> >> You successfully print to sys.stderr.  So you could print to some other
> >> file in the exact same way.
> >>
> >>>>
> >>>> 4) your present code runs once through the names, and terminates.  It
> >>>> doesn't "monitor" anything.
> >>
> >> Make a new function, perhaps called main(), with a loop that calls
> >> validate_files(), with a sleep after each pass.  Of course, unless you
> >> fix TODO#1, that'll keep looking for the same files.  No harm in that if
> >> that's the spec, since you moved the earlier versions of the files.
> >>
> >> But if you want to "monitor" the directory, let the directory name be
> >> the argument to main, and let main do a dirlist each time through the
> >> loop, and pass the corresponding list to validate_files.
> >>
> >>>>
> >>>> 5) your present code doesn't check for zero-length files
> >>>>
> >>
> >> In validate_and_process_data(), instead of checking filesize against
> >> ftell, check it against zero.
> >>
> >>>> I'd also wonder why you bother checking whether the
> >>>> os.path.getsize(file) function returns the same value as the os.SEEK_END
> >>>> and ftell() code does.  Is it that you don't trust the library?  Or that
> >>>> you have to run on Windows, where the line-ending logic can change the
> >>>> apparent file size?
> >>>>
> >>>> I notice you're not specifying a file mode on the open.  So in Python 3,
> >>>> your sizes are going to be specified in unicode characters after
> >>>> decoding.  Is that what the spec says?  It's probably safer to
> >>>> explicitly specify the mode (and the file encoding if you're in text).
> >>>>
> >>>> I see you call strip() before comparing the length.  Could there ever be
> >>>> leading or trailing whitespace that's significant?  Is that the actual
> >>>> specification of line size?
> >>>>
> >>>> --
> >>>> DaveA
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >>> I ask this because I have been searching fruitlessly through for some time and there are so many permutations that I am bamboozled by which is considered best practice.
> >>>
> >>> Moreover, as to the other comments, those are too specific. The scope of the assignment is very limited, but I am learning what I need to look out or ask questions regarding specs - in the future.
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >> DaveA
> >
> > @DaveA
> >
> > My most recent commit (https://github.com/ahlusar1989/WGProjects/blob/master/P1version2.0withassumptions_mods.py) has more annotations and comments for each file.
> 
> Perhaps you don't realize how github works.  The whole point is it 
> preserves the history of your code, and you use the same filename for 
> each revision.
> 
> Or possibly it's I that doesn't understand it.  I use git, but haven't 
> actually used github for my own code.
> 
> >
> > I have attempted to address the functional requirements that you brought up:
> >
> > 1) Before, my present code was assuming all filenames come directly from the commandline.  No searching of a directory. I think that I have addressed this.
> >
> 
> Have you even tried to run the code?  It quits immediately with an 
> exception since your call to main() doesn't pass any arguments, and main 
> requires one.
> 
>  > def main(dirslist):
>  >     while True:
>  >         for file in dirslist:
>  >         	return validate_files(file)
>  >         	time.sleep(5)
> 
> In addition, you aren't actually doing anything to find what the files 
> in the directory are.  I tried to refer to dirlist, as a hint.  A 
> stronger hint:  look up  os.listdir()
> 
> And that list of files has to change each time through the while loop, 
> that's the whole meaning of scanning.  You don't just grab the names 
> once, you look to see what's there.
> 
> The next thing is that you're using a variable called 'file', while 
> that's a built-in type in Python.  So you really want to use a different 
> name.
> 
> Next, you have a loop through the magical dirslist to get individual 
> filenames, but then you call the validate_files() function with a single 
> file, but that function is expecting a list of filenames.  One or the 
> other has to change.
> 
> Next, you return from main after validating the first file, so no others 
> will get processed.
> 
> > 2) My present code does not move any files to success or failure directories (requirements for this assignment1). I am still wondering if and how I should use shututil() like you advised me to. I keep receiving a syntax error when declaring this below the print statement.
> 
> You had a function to do that in your very first post to this thread. 
> Have you forgotten it already?  As for syntax errors, you can't expect 
> any help on that when you don't show any code nor the syntax error 
> traceback.  Remember that when a syntax error is shown, it's frequently 
> the previous line or two that actually was wrong.
> 
> >
> > 3) You correctly reminded me that my present code doesn't calculate or write to a text file any statistics or errors for the cause of the error.
> 
>  > #I wrote an error class in case the I needed such a specification for 
> a notifcation - this is not in the requirements
>  > class ErrorHandler:
>  >
>  >     def __init__(self):
>  >         pass
>  >
>  >     def write(self, string):
>  >
>  >         # write error to file
>  >         fname = " Error report (" + time.strftime("%Y-%m-%d %I-%M%p") 
> + ").txt"
>  >         handler = open(fname, "w")
>  >         handler.write(string)
>  >         handler.close()
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This looks like Java code.  With no data attributes, and only one 
> method(function), what's the reason you don't just use a function?
> 
> 
> original_stderr = sys.stderr # stored in case want to revert
> sys.stderr = ErrorHandler()
> 
> This is just bogus.  There are rare times when a programmer might want 
> to replace stderr, but that's just unnecessarily confusing in a program 
> like this one.  When you want to write printable data to another file, 
> just use that file's handle as the argument to the file= argument of 
> print().  You could use an instance of ErrorHandler as a file handle. 
> Or do it one of a dozen other straightforward ways.
> 
> While we're at it, why do you keep creating new files for your error 
> report?  And overwriting all the old messages with whatever new ones 
> come in the same minute?
> 
> 
> > (Should I use the copy or copy2 method in order provide metadata? If so, should I wrap it into a try and except logic?)
> 
> No idea what you mean here.  What metadata?  And what do copy and copy2 
> have to do with anything here?
> 
> >
> > 4) Before, my present code runs once through the names, and terminates.  It doesn't "monitor" anything. I think I have addressed this with the  main function - correct?
> >
> Not even close.
> 
> > 5) Before, my present code doesn't check for zero-length files  - I have added a comment there in case that is needed)
> >
> > I realize appreciate your invaluable feedback. I have grown a lot with this assignment!
> >
> > Sincerely,
> >
> > Saran
> >
> 
> 
> -- 
> DaveA

@DaveA

Thanks for your help on this homework assignment. I started from scratch last night. I have added some comments that will perhaps help clarify my intentions and my thought process. Thanks again. 

from __future__ import print_function

import os
import time
import glob
import sys

def initialize_logger(output_dir):
    logger = logging.getLogger()
    logger.setLevel(logging.DEBUG)
     
    # create console handler and set level to info
    handler = logging.StreamHandler()
    handler.setLevel(logging.INFO)
    formatter = logging.Formatter("%(levelname)s - %(message)s")
    handler.setFormatter(formatter)
    logger.addHandler(handler)
 
    # create error file handler and set level to error
    handler = logging.FileHandler(os.path.join(output_dir, "error.log"),"w", encoding=None, delay="true")
    handler.setLevel(logging.ERROR)
    formatter = logging.Formatter("%(levelname)s - %(message)s")
    handler.setFormatter(formatter)
    logger.addHandler(handler)

    # create debug file handler and set level to debug
    handler = logging.FileHandler(os.path.join(output_dir, "all.log"),"w")
    handler.setLevel(logging.DEBUG)
    formatter = logging.Formatter("%(levelname)s - %(message)s")
    handler.setFormatter(formatter)
    logger.addHandler(handler)


#Helper Functions for the Success and Failure Folder Outcomes, respectively

    def file_len(filename):
        with open(filename) as f:
            for i, l in enumerate(f):
                pass
            return i + 1


    def copy_and_move_File(src, dest):
        try:
            shutil.rename(src, dest)
        # eg. src and dest are the same file
        except shutil.Error as e:
            print('Error: %s' % e)
        # eg. source or destination doesn't exist
        except IOError as e:
            print('Error: %s' % e.strerror)


# Call main(), with a loop that calls # validate_files(), with a sleep after each pass. Before, my present #code was assuming all filenames come directly from the commandline.  There was no actual searching #of a directory.  

# I am assuming that this is appropriate since I moved the earlier versions of the files. 
# I let the directory name be the argument to main, and let main do a dirlist each time through the loop, 
# and pass the corresponding list to validate_files. 


path = "/some/sample/path/"
dirlist = os.listdir(path)
before = dict([(f, None) for f in dirlist)
 
#####Syntax Error?     before = dict([(f, None) for f in dirlist)
                                             ^
SyntaxError: invalid syntax

def main(dirlist):
    while True:
        time.sleep(10) #time between update check
    after = dict([(f, None) for f in dirlist)
    added = [f for f in after if not f in before]
    if added:
        print('Sucessfully added new file - ready to validate')
      ####add return statement here to pass to validate_files
if __name__ == "__main__": 
    main() 


#check for record time and record length - logic to be written to either pass to Failure or Success folder respectively

def validate_files():
    creation = time.ctime(os.path.getctime(added))
    lastmod = time.ctime(os.path.getmtime(added))
    
 

#Potential Additions/Substitutions  - what are the implications/consequences for this 

def move_to_failure_folder_and_return_error_file():
    os.mkdir('Failure')
    copy_and_move_File(filename, 'Failure')
    initialize_logger('rootdir/Failure')
    logging.error("Either this file is empty or there are no lines")
     
             
def move_to_success_folder_and_read(f):
    os.mkdir('Success')
    copy_and_move_File(filename, 'Success')
    print("Success", f)
    return file_len()

#This simply checks the file information by name------> is this needed anymore?

def fileinfo(file):
    filename = os.path.basename(f)
    rootdir = os.path.dirname(f)  
    filesize = os.path.getsize(f)
    return filename, rootdir, filesize

if __name__ == '__main__':
   import sys
   validate_files(sys.argv[1:])

# -- end of file


From johnnybureddu at gmx.com  Thu Apr  2 09:15:37 2015
From: johnnybureddu at gmx.com (REVOLUCION!)
Date: Thu, 2 Apr 2015 06:15:37 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: -- redacted --
In-Reply-To: <0cd7ca99-6a9b-4923-9797-9351a1b418cb@googlegroups.com>
References: <0cd7ca99-6a9b-4923-9797-9351a1b418cb@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <bc81d76a-5011-4474-adf0-497f576f8573@googlegroups.com>

-- redacted --


From johnnybureddu at gmx.com  Thu Apr  2 09:17:13 2015
From: johnnybureddu at gmx.com (REVOLUCION!)
Date: Thu, 2 Apr 2015 06:17:13 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: -- redacted --
In-Reply-To: <4f5ceab4-d175-4b96-829b-8c8fab7f77f0@googlegroups.com>
References: <4f5ceab4-d175-4b96-829b-8c8fab7f77f0@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1c0942dc-0889-40a7-b79e-3895d36fcec4@googlegroups.com>

-- redacted --


From johnnybureddu at gmx.com  Thu Apr  2 09:19:11 2015
From: johnnybureddu at gmx.com (REVOLUCION!)
Date: Thu, 2 Apr 2015 06:19:11 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: -- redacted --
In-Reply-To: <ac0e1236-0413-411a-932e-606c436211b0@googlegroups.com>
References: <ac0e1236-0413-411a-932e-606c436211b0@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <0abd11c1-6dfa-4c57-86ea-e2d7fc014d92@googlegroups.com>

-- redacted --


From johnnybureddu at gmx.com  Thu Apr  2 09:19:53 2015
From: johnnybureddu at gmx.com (REVOLUCION!)
Date: Thu, 2 Apr 2015 06:19:53 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: -- redacted --
In-Reply-To: <360baff8-8111-49df-bde7-97df7e53ed17@googlegroups.com>
References: <360baff8-8111-49df-bde7-97df7e53ed17@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <2d877f3b-fb66-4afe-90bd-cc6ee71af22d@googlegroups.com>

-- redacted --


From johnnybureddu at gmx.com  Thu Apr  2 09:21:40 2015
From: johnnybureddu at gmx.com (REVOLUCION!)
Date: Thu, 2 Apr 2015 06:21:40 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: -- redacted --
In-Reply-To: <ac0e1236-0413-411a-932e-606c436211b0@googlegroups.com>
References: <ac0e1236-0413-411a-932e-606c436211b0@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <72a48841-af75-48d3-a1c1-bfc3a199d10a@googlegroups.com>

-- redacted --


From johnnybureddu at gmx.com  Thu Apr  2 09:22:19 2015
From: johnnybureddu at gmx.com (REVOLUCION!)
Date: Thu, 2 Apr 2015 06:22:19 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: -- redacted --
In-Reply-To: <7d471aa5-b6ed-4800-9855-37319ba126ee@googlegroups.com>
References: <7d471aa5-b6ed-4800-9855-37319ba126ee@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <6cc06ab2-c6e9-4b92-a607-97b0d557df8c@googlegroups.com>

-- redacted --


From johnnybureddu at gmx.com  Thu Apr  2 09:22:36 2015
From: johnnybureddu at gmx.com (REVOLUCION!)
Date: Thu, 2 Apr 2015 06:22:36 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: -- redacted --
In-Reply-To: <76d6b00b-d8fa-437a-9b0a-0c5e1170e67f@googlegroups.com>
References: <76d6b00b-d8fa-437a-9b0a-0c5e1170e67f@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <fe45a27a-1465-4216-9db7-1788447cf842@googlegroups.com>

-- redacted --


From ahlusar.ahluwalia at gmail.com  Thu Apr  2 09:28:10 2015
From: ahlusar.ahluwalia at gmail.com (Saran A)
Date: Thu, 2 Apr 2015 06:28:10 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: New to Programming: TypeError: coercing to Unicode: need string
 or buffer, list found
In-Reply-To: <mailman.21.1427979994.12925.python-list@python.org>
References: <6203299c-f9b2-4169-9d68-4c92e0f7b32f@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.18.1427977502.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <57693d65-e683-4972-ac8d-97b2feace3bb@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.21.1427979994.12925.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <33906269-3688-48fc-8315-e88eac644ace@googlegroups.com>

On Thursday, April 2, 2015 at 9:06:49 AM UTC-4, Chris Angelico wrote:
> On Thu, Apr 2, 2015 at 11:46 PM, Saran A <ahlusar.ahluwalia at gmail.com> wrote:
> > @ChrisA - this is a smaller function that will take the most updated file. My intention is the following:
> >
> > * Monitor a folder for files that are dropped throughout the day
> >
> > * When a file is dropped in the folder the program should scan the file
> >
> > o IF all the contents in the file have the same length (let's assume line length)
> >
> > o THEN the file should be moved to a "success" folder and a text file written indicating the total number of records/lines/words processed
> >
> > o IF the file is empty OR the contents are not all of the same length
> >
> > o THEN the file should be moved to a "failure" folder and a text file written indicating the cause for failure (for example: Empty file or line 100 was not the same length as the rest).
> >
> 
> Sounds like a perfect job for inotify, then. Your function will be
> called whenever there's a new file.
> 
> > Here is the code I have written:
> >
> > def initialize_logger(output_dir):
> >     logger = logging.getLogger()
> >     ...
> >     def file_len(filename
> >         with open(filename) as f:
> >             for i, l in enumerate(f):
> >                 pass
> >             return i + 1
> 
> These functions are all getting defined inside your
> initialize_logger() function. I suspect you want them to be flush left
> instead.
> 
> >     def copyFile(src, dest):
> >         try:
> >             shutil.copy(src, dest)
> >         # eg. src and dest are the same file
> >         except shutil.Error as e:
> >             print('Error: %s' % e)
> >         # eg. source or destination doesn't exist
> >         except IOError as e:
> >             print('Error: %s' % e.strerror)
> 
> Recommendation: Skip the try/except, and just let exceptions bubble
> up. Don't just print out messages and keep going.
> 
> > def move_to_failure_folder_and_return_error_file():
> >     os.mkdir('Failure')
> >     copyFile(filename, 'Failure')
> >     initialize_logger('rootdir/Failure')
> >     logging.error("Either this file is empty or the lines")
> 
> This doesn't move the file, it copies it. Is that your intention?
> 
> Moving a file is pretty easy. Just use os.rename().
> 
> > if __name__ == '__main__':
> >    import sys
> >    validate_files(sys.argv[1:])
> 
> I've no idea what validate_files() does, as you haven't included that.
> 
> I think you could code this fairly efficiently as a simple callback
> off pyinotify, or if you're not on Linux, with one of the equivalent
> services. What you're doing here (watching for files, looking inside
> them, and moving them when done) is pretty common around the world.
> 
> ChrisA

@ChrisA

validate_files will:

#double check for record time and record length - logic to be written to either pass to Failure or Success folder respectively. I welcome your thoughts on this.  

def validate_files(): 
    creation = time.ctime(os.path.getctime(added)) 
    lastmod = time.ctime(os.path.getmtime(added)) 


Does this address the issue. I particularly like writing my own exceptions as they provide me with more information on what could be the root cause. I know that in other circumstances, try and except are not the best practice. I appreciate the reminder though.  

Does this modification to copyFile do the job of moving the file? I haven't written a test yet. 

Thanks for catching the indentation for the helper functions. 
   
def copyFile(src, dest):
> >         try:
> >             shutil.rename(src, dest)
> >         # eg. src and dest are the same file
> >         except shutil.Error as e:
> >             print('Error: %s' % e)
> >         # eg. source or destination doesn't exist
> >         except IOError as e:
> >             print('Error: %s' % e.strerror)


From rosuav at gmail.com  Thu Apr  2 09:57:41 2015
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Fri, 3 Apr 2015 00:57:41 +1100
Subject: New to Programming: TypeError: coercing to Unicode: need string
 or buffer, list found
In-Reply-To: <33906269-3688-48fc-8315-e88eac644ace@googlegroups.com>
References: <6203299c-f9b2-4169-9d68-4c92e0f7b32f@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.18.1427977502.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <57693d65-e683-4972-ac8d-97b2feace3bb@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.21.1427979994.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <33906269-3688-48fc-8315-e88eac644ace@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmowBBCWgo2smsC5e4BV-r5YcqtfVcJEx=xL92vVgeHkfw@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Apr 3, 2015 at 12:28 AM, Saran A <ahlusar.ahluwalia at gmail.com> wrote:
> Does this modification to copyFile do the job of moving the file? I haven't written a test yet.
>
> Thanks for catching the indentation for the helper functions.
>
> def copyFile(src, dest):
>> >         try:
>> >             shutil.rename(src, dest)
>> >         # eg. src and dest are the same file
>> >         except shutil.Error as e:
>> >             print('Error: %s' % e)
>> >         # eg. source or destination doesn't exist
>> >         except IOError as e:
>> >             print('Error: %s' % e.strerror)

You shouldn't need shutil here; just os.rename(src, dest) should do
the trick. But be careful! Now you have a function which moves a file,
and it's called "copyFile". If its purpose changes, so should its
name.

Have fun!

ChrisA


From richismyname at gmail.com  Thu Apr  2 12:09:55 2015
From: richismyname at gmail.com (richismyname at gmail.com)
Date: Thu, 2 Apr 2015 09:09:55 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Python to C++ in a pickle
In-Reply-To: <K5r85.38150$dF.1427872@news1.rdc1.il.home.com>
References: <K5r85.38150$dF.1427872@news1.rdc1.il.home.com>
Message-ID: <12eeb7de-29a1-4c06-b938-234bda1b7c76@googlegroups.com>

On Tuesday, July 4, 2000 at 12:00:00 AM UTC-7, Larry Whitley wrote:
> I'd like to pickle an object in python and unpickle it in C++.  The object
> in question is a python dictionary so it will have to go into a C++ map.
> Has someone done this and is willing to share?  Or, is the cPickle source
> available on the web somewhere?
> 
> Larry

Check out http://www.picklingtools.com.  It gives you C++ code for pickling
and unpickling as well as data structures for manipulating those structures.


From ykravetz89 at gmail.com  Thu Apr  2 15:41:27 2015
From: ykravetz89 at gmail.com (ykravetz89 at gmail.com)
Date: Thu, 2 Apr 2015 12:41:27 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: pysftp connection not sending files, hanging on 'put'
In-Reply-To: <mailman.18089.1422117151.18130.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.18089.1422117151.18130.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <0df21ec2-149b-46ff-87f1-34864648abde@googlegroups.com>

On Saturday, January 24, 2015 at 11:32:43 AM UTC-5, Jules Stevenson wrote:
> Hi List,
> 
> 
> I'm trying to send some files via pysftp, authentication seems fine, but actually putting the file results in it hanging, doing nothing. The files are small (<200kb) so I don't believe it's an upload issue (internet access is fine). Eventually the connection times out.
> 
> 
> Code:
> 
> 
> 
> if os.listdir(ftp_path):# only do if files are there
> 	with pysftp.Connection(FTP_SERVER,
> 
> port=2222
> 
> username=FTP_USER,?
> 
> private_key=FTP_SSH_PRIVATE_KEY_PATH
> 
> ) as sftp:
> with sftp.cd(FTP_REMOTE_FOLDER):
> 
> for f in os.listdir(ftp_path):
> 
> if os.path.isfile(os.path.join(ftp_path,f)) :
> 
> # upload image to server
> 
> self.log.info("HB FTP, Start upload: "+f)
> 
> print(ftp_path+"\\"+f)
> 
> sftp.put(os.path.join(ftp_path,f))
> 
> self.log.info("HB FTP, Finished Upload: "+f)
> 
> 
> 
> Logging output here:
> 
> 
> 
> FSW_COMMS paramiko.transport 01/24/2015 04:23:58 PM: INFO: Authentication (publickey) successful!
> FSW_COMMS paramiko.transport 01/24/2015 04:23:58 PM: DEBUG: [chan 1] Max packet in: 32768 bytes
> FSW_COMMS paramiko.transport 01/24/2015 04:23:58 PM: DEBUG: [chan 1] Max packet out: 0 bytes
> FSW_COMMS paramiko.transport 01/24/2015 04:23:58 PM: DEBUG: Secsh channel 1 opened.
> FSW_COMMS paramiko.transport 01/24/2015 04:23:58 PM: DEBUG: [chan 1] Sesch channel 1 request ok
> FSW_COMMS paramiko.transport.sftp 01/24/2015 04:23:58 PM: INFO: [chan 1] Opened sftp connection (server version 3)
> FSW_COMMS paramiko.transport.sftp 01/24/2015 04:23:58 PM: DEBUG: [chan 1] normalize('.')
> FSW_COMMS paramiko.transport.sftp 01/24/2015 04:23:58 PM: DEBUG: [chan 1] stat('files')
> FSW_COMMS paramiko.transport.sftp 01/24/2015 04:23:58 PM: DEBUG: [chan 1] normalize('files')
> FSW_COMMS root 01/24/2015 04:23:58 PM: INFO: HB FTP, Start upload: 2015-01-17-19-37-07.jpg
> D:\FSW\ftp\2015-01-17-19-37-07.jpg
> FSW_COMMS paramiko.transport.sftp 01/24/2015 04:23:58 PM: DEBUG: [chan 1] open('/files/2015-01-17-19-37-07.jpg', 'wb')
> FSW_COMMS paramiko.transport.sftp 01/24/2015 04:23:58 PM: DEBUG: [chan 1] open('/files/2015-01-17-19-37-07.jpg', 'wb') -> 34613039393262343666383036653839
> 
> 
> Any help much appreciated,
> 
> 
> Jules

I am having the exact issue, have you found a solution?


From davea at davea.name  Thu Apr  2 17:10:46 2015
From: davea at davea.name (Dave Angel)
Date: Thu, 02 Apr 2015 17:10:46 -0400
Subject: Strategy/ Advice for How to Best Attack this Problem?
In-Reply-To: <ba29c06d-3cdc-412e-90a0-b1119a360570@googlegroups.com>
References: <b803183b-6da5-4907-825d-9386b2bc2798@googlegroups.com>
 <87a8yvs34u.fsf@jester.gateway.pace.com>
 <mailman.323.1427681070.10327.python-list@python.org>
 <bc19cb8e-9e4f-48a7-a9f5-4b39db09a7ce@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.344.1427740538.10327.python-list@python.org>
 <0623f75c-bf93-4a0f-9d87-86986185cdc3@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.371.1427807964.10327.python-list@python.org>
 <fcd8bbbc-2d81-4797-aa0e-090683e72f3f@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.16.1427932335.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <ba29c06d-3cdc-412e-90a0-b1119a360570@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <551DB056.5010405@davea.name>

On 04/02/2015 09:06 AM, Saran A wrote:

>
> Thanks for your help on this homework assignment. I started from scratch last night. I have added some comments that will perhaps help clarify my intentions and my thought process. Thanks again.
>
> from __future__ import print_function

I'll just randomly comment on some things I see here.  You've started 
several threads, on two different forums, so it's impractical to figure 
out what's really up.


    <snip some code I'm not commenting on>
>
> #Helper Functions for the Success and Failure Folder Outcomes, respectively
>
>      def file_len(filename):

This is an indentation error, as you forgot to start at the left margin

>          with open(filename) as f:
>              for i, l in enumerate(f):
>                  pass
>              return i + 1
>
>
>      def copy_and_move_File(src, dest):

ditto

>          try:
>              shutil.rename(src, dest)

Is there a reason you don't use the move function?  rename won't work if 
the two directories aren't on the same file system.

>          # eg. src and dest are the same file
>          except shutil.Error as e:
>              print('Error: %s' % e)
>          # eg. source or destination doesn't exist
>          except IOError as e:
>              print('Error: %s' % e.strerror)
>
>
> # Call main(), with a loop that calls # validate_files(), with a sleep after each pass. Before, my present #code was assuming all filenames come directly from the commandline.  There was no actual searching #of a directory.
>
> # I am assuming that this is appropriate since I moved the earlier versions of the files.
> # I let the directory name be the argument to main, and let main do a dirlist each time through the loop,
> # and pass the corresponding list to validate_files.
>
>
> path = "/some/sample/path/"
> dirlist = os.listdir(path)
> before = dict([(f, None) for f in dirlist)
>
> #####Syntax Error?     before = dict([(f, None) for f in dirlist)
>                                               ^
> SyntaxError: invalid syntax

Look at the line in question. There's an unmatched set of brackets.  Not 
that it matters, since you don't need these 2 lines for anything.  See 
my comments on some other forum.

>
> def main(dirlist):

bad name for a directory path variable.

>      while True:
>          time.sleep(10) #time between update check

Somewhere inside this loop, you want to obtain a list of files in the 
specified directory.  And you want to do something with that list.  You 
don't have to worry about what the files were last time, because 
presumably those are gone.  Unless in an unwritten part of the spec, 
you're supposed to abort if any filename is repeated over time.


>      after = dict([(f, None) for f in dirlist)
>      added = [f for f in after if not f in before]
>      if added:
>          print('Sucessfully added new file - ready to validate')
>        ####add return statement here to pass to validate_files
> if __name__ == "__main__":
>      main()

You'll need an argument to call main()

>
>
> #check for record time and record length - logic to be written to either pass to Failure or Success folder respectively
>
> def validate_files():

Where are all the parameters to this function?

>      creation = time.ctime(os.path.getctime(added))
>      lastmod = time.ctime(os.path.getmtime(added))
>
>
>
> #Potential Additions/Substitutions  - what are the implications/consequences for this
>
> def move_to_failure_folder_and_return_error_file():
>      os.mkdir('Failure')
>      copy_and_move_File(filename, 'Failure')
>      initialize_logger('rootdir/Failure')
>      logging.error("Either this file is empty or there are no lines")
>
>
> def move_to_success_folder_and_read(f):
>      os.mkdir('Success')
>      copy_and_move_File(filename, 'Success')
>      print("Success", f)
>      return file_len()
>
> #This simply checks the file information by name------> is this needed anymore?
>
> def fileinfo(file):
>      filename = os.path.basename(f)
>      rootdir = os.path.dirname(f)
>      filesize = os.path.getsize(f)
>      return filename, rootdir, filesize
>
> if __name__ == '__main__':
>     import sys
>     validate_files(sys.argv[1:])
>
> # -- end of file
>


-- 
DaveA


From PointedEars at web.de  Thu Apr  2 17:31:04 2015
From: PointedEars at web.de (Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn)
Date: Thu, 02 Apr 2015 23:31:04 +0200
Subject: A simple single line,
 triple-quoted comment is giving syntax error. Why?
References: <f7b84d9d-c559-4711-ad63-1deea5f12c62@googlegroups.com>
 <med6mn$ag9$6@dont-email.me> <3533816.ZYnZ2OzjCs@PointedEars.de>
 <mailman.51.1426995416.10327.python-list@python.org>
 <3971951.908YQu3oQO@PointedEars.de>
 <mailman.52.1426997516.10327.python-list@python.org>
 <1504323.jUKfeKbQsP@PointedEars.de>
 <mailman.181.1427346636.10327.python-list@python.org>
 <2362875.FIK8ImHTJA@PointedEars.de>
 <mailman.211.1427394586.10327.python-list@python.org>
 <1823599.Pr2V0MPR6q@PointedEars.de>
 <mailman.223.1427412471.10327.python-list@python.org>
 <9781856.5cutuNVPEq@PointedEars.de>
 <mailman.300.1427615834.10327.python-list@python.org>
 <3894022.plrvF2nHWu@PointedEars.de>
 <mailman.362.1427786682.10327.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1905422.ubGH1B8UfE@PointedEars.de>

Ian Kelly wrote:

> [?] Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn [?] wrote:
>> Ian Kelly wrote:
>>> Within a grammar, the question of "is an X a Y" is nonsensical in
>>> isolation. It can only be answered in relation to a parse tree.
>>> Consider the simple grammar:
>>>
>>> S -> A | B
>>> A -> x
>>> B -> x
>>>
>>> Is x an A? It depends.
>>
>> No, by the definition 2 below, that we all accepted implicitly up to this
>> point, x is *definitely* an A.
> 
> What gives you the impression that I ever accepted it?

,-<news:mailman.181.1427346636.10327.python-list at python.org>
| 
| What the grammar that you quoted from shows is that STRING+ is an
| expression.

There is *no way* for you to make that statement if you did not accept 
definition (2).

>> (2) Let the statement ?x is an A? be true if x can be produced in a
>>     production chain starting with or including the non-terminal A
>>     left-hand side ?
>>
>>       x ? A ? ?A (? ? A ? ? ? x).
> 
> Sorry, but this definition just seems entirely arbitrary to me.

It is just the formalization of the definition that we all have agreed to, 
including you.

> Mathematically, it looks nonsensical; A is a symbol, not a set.

?A? is the goal symbol of a production, so it can be interpreted as the 
superset of all set of terminals that can be produced from it, through the 
goal symbols that can be produced from it.  And all of us implicitly did 
that when we said ?STRING(+) (literals) is/are (not) (an) expression(s)?.

> This question of whether "x is an A" is informal and not a topic of formal
> language theory so far as I'm aware. Can you cite some source for it?

No, because I was formalizing the ad-hoc definition by Chris Angelico in 
<news:mailman.51.1426995416.10327.python-list at python.org>.

>> Now, according to these definitions, in the offered grammar x is *both*
>> an A and a B.  Because what matters is _not_ the practical result of
>> production chains (the actual parse tree), but the certainty of the
>> theoretical possibility of it.
> 
> This strikes me as being a lot like arguing, "some kites are toys, and
> some kites are birds; therefore, all kites are both toys and birds."

False analogy again.  We are discussing *in theory* a *formal* grammar.  Its 
goal symbols have *no meaning* except what can be produced from them.

> As noted above, the inaccuracy that Gregory pointed out has no bearing
> on my argument.

But it does.

> You're really going to make me spell it out, aren't you? Fine, here you
> go.
> 
> single_input -> [?] -> expr -> [?] -> atom -> STRING STRING
> 
> Note: the derivation contains exactly one expr node, which indirectly
> produces both STRINGs. Neither STRING in this derivation is
> individually produced from the expr.

So you have proven that which nobody ever doubted nor requested, but I 
pointed out already.  What you have still not proven is what you claimed: 
the parse tree.

I am sorry that you cannot see that your argument is strewn with gaping 
defects in logic, but I think I will stop trying to convince you of that 
now.

-- 
PointedEars

Twitter: @PointedEars2
Please do not cc me. / Bitte keine Kopien per E-Mail.


From sohcahtoa82 at gmail.com  Thu Apr  2 18:26:01 2015
From: sohcahtoa82 at gmail.com (sohcahtoa82 at gmail.com)
Date: Thu, 2 Apr 2015 15:26:01 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: A simple single line, triple-quoted comment is giving syntax
 error. Why?
In-Reply-To: <1905422.ubGH1B8UfE@PointedEars.de>
References: <f7b84d9d-c559-4711-ad63-1deea5f12c62@googlegroups.com>
 <med6mn$ag9$6@dont-email.me> <3533816.ZYnZ2OzjCs@PointedEars.de>
 <mailman.51.1426995416.10327.python-list@python.org>
 <3971951.908YQu3oQO@PointedEars.de>
 <mailman.52.1426997516.10327.python-list@python.org>
 <1504323.jUKfeKbQsP@PointedEars.de>
 <mailman.181.1427346636.10327.python-list@python.org>
 <2362875.FIK8ImHTJA@PointedEars.de>
 <mailman.211.1427394586.10327.python-list@python.org>
 <1823599.Pr2V0MPR6q@PointedEars.de>
 <mailman.223.1427412471.10327.python-list@python.org>
 <9781856.5cutuNVPEq@PointedEars.de>
 <mailman.300.1427615834.10327.python-list@python.org>
 <3894022.plrvF2nHWu@PointedEars.de>
 <mailman.362.1427786682.10327.python-list@python.org>
 <1905422.ubGH1B8UfE@PointedEars.de>
Message-ID: <b93e4438-b4ca-4fc2-8aef-6647c54ca6e1@googlegroups.com>

On Thursday, April 2, 2015 at 2:33:17 PM UTC-7, Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn wrote:
> Ian Kelly wrote:
> 
> > [?] Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn [?] wrote:
> >> Ian Kelly wrote:
> >>> Within a grammar, the question of "is an X a Y" is nonsensical in
> >>> isolation. It can only be answered in relation to a parse tree.
> >>> Consider the simple grammar:
> >>>
> >>> S -> A | B
> >>> A -> x
> >>> B -> x
> >>>
> >>> Is x an A? It depends.
> >>
> >> No, by the definition 2 below, that we all accepted implicitly up to this
> >> point, x is *definitely* an A.
> > 
> > What gives you the impression that I ever accepted it?
> 
> ,-<news:mailman.181.1427346636.10327.python-list at python.org>
> | 
> | What the grammar that you quoted from shows is that STRING+ is an
> | expression.
> 
> There is *no way* for you to make that statement if you did not accept 
> definition (2).
> 
> >> (2) Let the statement ?x is an A? be true if x can be produced in a
> >>     production chain starting with or including the non-terminal A
> >>     left-hand side ?
> >>
> >>       x ? A ? ?A (? ? A ? ? ? x).
> > 
> > Sorry, but this definition just seems entirely arbitrary to me.
> 
> It is just the formalization of the definition that we all have agreed to, 
> including you.
> 
> > Mathematically, it looks nonsensical; A is a symbol, not a set.
> 
> ?A? is the goal symbol of a production, so it can be interpreted as the 
> superset of all set of terminals that can be produced from it, through the 
> goal symbols that can be produced from it.  And all of us implicitly did 
> that when we said ?STRING(+) (literals) is/are (not) (an) expression(s)?.
> 
> > This question of whether "x is an A" is informal and not a topic of formal
> > language theory so far as I'm aware. Can you cite some source for it?
> 
> No, because I was formalizing the ad-hoc definition by Chris Angelico in 
> <news:mailman.51.1426995416.10327.python-list at python.org>.
> 
> >> Now, according to these definitions, in the offered grammar x is *both*
> >> an A and a B.  Because what matters is _not_ the practical result of
> >> production chains (the actual parse tree), but the certainty of the
> >> theoretical possibility of it.
> > 
> > This strikes me as being a lot like arguing, "some kites are toys, and
> > some kites are birds; therefore, all kites are both toys and birds."
> 
> False analogy again.  We are discussing *in theory* a *formal* grammar.  Its 
> goal symbols have *no meaning* except what can be produced from them.
> 
> > As noted above, the inaccuracy that Gregory pointed out has no bearing
> > on my argument.
> 
> But it does.
> 
> > You're really going to make me spell it out, aren't you? Fine, here you
> > go.
> > 
> > single_input -> [?] -> expr -> [?] -> atom -> STRING STRING
> > 
> > Note: the derivation contains exactly one expr node, which indirectly
> > produces both STRINGs. Neither STRING in this derivation is
> > individually produced from the expr.
> 
> So you have proven that which nobody ever doubted nor requested, but I 
> pointed out already.  What you have still not proven is what you claimed: 
> the parse tree.
> 
> I am sorry that you cannot see that your argument is strewn with gaping 
> defects in logic, but I think I will stop trying to convince you of that 
> now.
> 
> -- 
> PointedEars
> 
> Twitter: @PointedEars2
> Please do not cc me. / Bitte keine Kopien per E-Mail.

*sigh*

https://xkcd.com/386/


From ahlusar.ahluwalia at gmail.com  Thu Apr  2 19:43:01 2015
From: ahlusar.ahluwalia at gmail.com (Saran A)
Date: Thu, 2 Apr 2015 16:43:01 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Strategy/ Advice for How to Best Attack this Problem?
In-Reply-To: <mailman.23.1428009062.12925.python-list@python.org>
References: <b803183b-6da5-4907-825d-9386b2bc2798@googlegroups.com>
 <87a8yvs34u.fsf@jester.gateway.pace.com>
 <mailman.323.1427681070.10327.python-list@python.org>
 <bc19cb8e-9e4f-48a7-a9f5-4b39db09a7ce@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.344.1427740538.10327.python-list@python.org>
 <0623f75c-bf93-4a0f-9d87-86986185cdc3@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.371.1427807964.10327.python-list@python.org>
 <fcd8bbbc-2d81-4797-aa0e-090683e72f3f@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.16.1427932335.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <ba29c06d-3cdc-412e-90a0-b1119a360570@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.23.1428009062.12925.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <4d3a3336-5dc1-4fe8-8ef6-1616c6629d01@googlegroups.com>

On Thursday, April 2, 2015 at 5:11:20 PM UTC-4, Dave Angel wrote:
> On 04/02/2015 09:06 AM, Saran A wrote:
> 
> >
> > Thanks for your help on this homework assignment. I started from scratch last night. I have added some comments that will perhaps help clarify my intentions and my thought process. Thanks again.
> >
> > from __future__ import print_function
> 
> I'll just randomly comment on some things I see here.  You've started 
> several threads, on two different forums, so it's impractical to figure 
> out what's really up.
> 
> 
>     <snip some code I'm not commenting on>
> >
> > #Helper Functions for the Success and Failure Folder Outcomes, respectively
> >
> >      def file_len(filename):
> 
> This is an indentation error, as you forgot to start at the left margin
> 
> >          with open(filename) as f:
> >              for i, l in enumerate(f):
> >                  pass
> >              return i + 1
> >
> >
> >      def copy_and_move_File(src, dest):
> 
> ditto
> 
> >          try:
> >              shutil.rename(src, dest)
> 
> Is there a reason you don't use the move function?  rename won't work if 
> the two directories aren't on the same file system.
> 
> >          # eg. src and dest are the same file
> >          except shutil.Error as e:
> >              print('Error: %s' % e)
> >          # eg. source or destination doesn't exist
> >          except IOError as e:
> >              print('Error: %s' % e.strerror)
> >
> >
> > # Call main(), with a loop that calls # validate_files(), with a sleep after each pass. Before, my present #code was assuming all filenames come directly from the commandline.  There was no actual searching #of a directory.
> >
> > # I am assuming that this is appropriate since I moved the earlier versions of the files.
> > # I let the directory name be the argument to main, and let main do a dirlist each time through the loop,
> > # and pass the corresponding list to validate_files.
> >
> >
> > path = "/some/sample/path/"
> > dirlist = os.listdir(path)
> > before = dict([(f, None) for f in dirlist)
> >
> > #####Syntax Error?     before = dict([(f, None) for f in dirlist)
> >                                               ^
> > SyntaxError: invalid syntax
> 
> Look at the line in question. There's an unmatched set of brackets.  Not 
> that it matters, since you don't need these 2 lines for anything.  See 
> my comments on some other forum.
> 
> >
> > def main(dirlist):
> 
> bad name for a directory path variable.
> 
> >      while True:
> >          time.sleep(10) #time between update check
> 
> Somewhere inside this loop, you want to obtain a list of files in the 
> specified directory.  And you want to do something with that list.  You 
> don't have to worry about what the files were last time, because 
> presumably those are gone.  Unless in an unwritten part of the spec, 
> you're supposed to abort if any filename is repeated over time.
> 
> 
> >      after = dict([(f, None) for f in dirlist)
> >      added = [f for f in after if not f in before]
> >      if added:
> >          print('Sucessfully added new file - ready to validate')
> >        ####add return statement here to pass to validate_files
> > if __name__ == "__main__":
> >      main()
> 
> You'll need an argument to call main()
> 
> >
> >
> > #check for record time and record length - logic to be written to either pass to Failure or Success folder respectively
> >
> > def validate_files():
> 
> Where are all the parameters to this function?
> 
> >      creation = time.ctime(os.path.getctime(added))
> >      lastmod = time.ctime(os.path.getmtime(added))
> >
> >
> >
> > #Potential Additions/Substitutions  - what are the implications/consequences for this
> >
> > def move_to_failure_folder_and_return_error_file():
> >      os.mkdir('Failure')
> >      copy_and_move_File(filename, 'Failure')
> >      initialize_logger('rootdir/Failure')
> >      logging.error("Either this file is empty or there are no lines")
> >
> >
> > def move_to_success_folder_and_read(f):
> >      os.mkdir('Success')
> >      copy_and_move_File(filename, 'Success')
> >      print("Success", f)
> >      return file_len()
> >
> > #This simply checks the file information by name------> is this needed anymore?
> >
> > def fileinfo(file):
> >      filename = os.path.basename(f)
> >      rootdir = os.path.dirname(f)
> >      filesize = os.path.getsize(f)
> >      return filename, rootdir, filesize
> >
> > if __name__ == '__main__':
> >     import sys
> >     validate_files(sys.argv[1:])
> >
> > # -- end of file
> >
> 
> 
> -- 
> DaveA

@DaveA

I debugged and rewrote everything. Here is the full version. Feel free to tear this apart. The homework assignment is not due until tomorrow, so I am currently also experimenting with pyinotify as well. I do have questions regarding how to make this function compatible with the ProcessEvent Class. I will create another post for this. 

What would you advise in regards to renaming the inaptly named dirlist?

# # # Without data to examine here, I can only guess based on this requirement's language that 
# # fixed records are in the input.  If so, here's a slight revision to the helper functions that I wrote earlier which
# # takes the function fileinfo as a starting point and demonstrates calling a function from within a function.  
# I tested this little sample on a small set of files created with MD5 checksums.  I wrote the Python in such a way as it 
# would work with Python 2.x or 3.x (note the __future__ at the top).

# # # There are so many wonderful ways of failure, so, from a development standpoint, I would probably spend a bit 
# # more time trying to determine which failure(s) I would want to report to the user, and how (perhaps creating my own Exceptions)

# # # The only other comments I would make are about safe-file handling.

# # #   #1:  Question: After a user has created a file that has failed (in
# # #        processing),can the user create a file with the same name?
# # #        If so, then you will probably want to look at some sort
# # #        of file-naming strategy to avoid overwriting evidence of
# # #        earlier failures.

# # # File naming is a tricky thing.  I referenced the tempfile module [1] and the Maildir naming scheme to see two different 
# # types of solutions to the problem of choosing a unique filename.

## I am assuming that all of my files are going to be specified in unicode  

## Utilized Spyder's Scientific Computing IDE to debug, check for indentation errors and test function suite

from __future__ import print_function

import os.path
import time
import logging


def initialize_logger(output_dir):
    logger = logging.getLogger()
    logger.setLevel(logging.DEBUG)
     
    # create console handler and set level to info
    handler = logging.StreamHandler()
    handler.setLevel(logging.INFO)
    formatter = logging.Formatter("%(levelname)s - %(message)s")
    handler.setFormatter(formatter)
    logger.addHandler(handler)
 
    # create error file handler and set level to error
    handler = logging.FileHandler(os.path.join(output_dir, "error.log"),"w", encoding=None, delay="true")
    handler.setLevel(logging.ERROR)
    formatter = logging.Formatter("%(levelname)s - %(message)s")
    handler.setFormatter(formatter)
    logger.addHandler(handler)

    # create debug file handler and set level to debug
    handler = logging.FileHandler(os.path.join(output_dir, "all.log"),"w")
    handler.setLevel(logging.DEBUG)
    formatter = logging.Formatter("%(levelname)s - %(message)s")
    handler.setFormatter(formatter)
    logger.addHandler(handler)


#Returns filename, rootdir and filesize 

def fileinfo(f):
    filename = os.path.basename(f)
    rootdir = os.path.dirname(f)  
    filesize = os.path.getsize(f)
    return filename, rootdir, filesize

#returns length of file
def file_len(f):
    with open(f) as f:
        for i, l in enumerate(f):
            pass
            return i + 1
#attempts to copy file and move file to it's directory
def copy_and_move_file(src, dest):
    try:
        os.rename(src, dest)
        # eg. src and dest are the same file
    except IOError as e:
        print('Error: %s' % e.strerror)

path = "."
dirlist = os.listdir(path)
 
def main(dirlist):   
    before = dict([(f, 0) for f in dirlist])
    while True:
        time.sleep(1) #time between update check
    after = dict([(f, None) for f in dirlist])
    added = [f for f in after if not f in before]
    if added:
        f = ''.join(added)
        print('Sucessfully added %s file - ready to validate') %()
        return validate_files(f)
    else:
        return move_to_failure_folder_and_return_error_file(f)


    
def validate_files(f):
    creation = time.ctime(os.path.getctime(f))
    lastmod = time.ctime(os.path.getmtime(f))
    if creation == lastmod and file_len(f) > 0:
        return move_to_success_folder_and_read(f)
    if file_len < 0 and creation != lastmod:
        return move_to_success_folder_and_read(f)
    else:
        return move_to_failure_folder_and_return_error_file(f)


#Potential Additions/Substitutions

def move_to_failure_folder_and_return_error_file():
    filename, rootdir, lastmod, creation, filesize = fileinfo(file)  
    os.mkdir('Failure')
    copy_and_move_file( 'Failure')
    initialize_logger('rootdir/Failure')
    logging.error("Either this file is empty or there are no lines")
     
             
def move_to_success_folder_and_read():
    filename, rootdir, lastmod, creation, filesize = fileinfo(file)  
    os.mkdir('Success')
    copy_and_move_file(rootdir, 'Success') #file name
    print("Success", file)
    return file_len(file)



if __name__ == '__main__':
   main(dirlist)


From rosuav at gmail.com  Thu Apr  2 20:12:12 2015
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Fri, 3 Apr 2015 11:12:12 +1100
Subject: New to Programming: TypeError: coercing to Unicode: need string
 or buffer, list found
In-Reply-To: <ptkrhatlndja2bacc1o25cpovfsgdliio6@4ax.com>
References: <6203299c-f9b2-4169-9d68-4c92e0f7b32f@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.18.1427977502.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <57693d65-e683-4972-ac8d-97b2feace3bb@googlegroups.com>
 <ptkrhatlndja2bacc1o25cpovfsgdliio6@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmo88uyW_HkhfsnB21_hGk2rnC1wxSFikW1Luod6tZfmTw@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Apr 3, 2015 at 11:03 AM, Dennis Lee Bieber
<wlfraed at ix.netcom.com> wrote:
>>o IF all the contents in the file have the same length (let's assume line length)
>>
>>o THEN the file should be moved to a "success" folder and a text file written indicating the total number of records/lines/words processed
>>
>>o IF the file is empty OR the contents are not all of the same length
>>
>>o THEN the file should be moved to a "failure" folder and a text file written indicating the cause for failure (for example: Empty file or line 100 was not the same length as the rest).
>>
>         You still haven't defined how you determine the "correct length" of the
> record. What if the first line is 79 characters, and all the others are 80
> characters? Do you report ALL lines EXCEPT the first as being the wrong
> length, when really it is the first line that is wrong?

Relatively immaterial here; in the first place, line length is just a
placeholder (my guess is it's more likely to be something like "CSV
files with the same number of cells on each row", or something), and
in the second place, the lines aren't the failures - if there's a
mismatch, the entire file is deemed wrong. It doesn't matter whether
it's the first line or the other lines, the file is dead.

ChrisA


From ahlusar.ahluwalia at gmail.com  Thu Apr  2 20:14:30 2015
From: ahlusar.ahluwalia at gmail.com (Saran A)
Date: Thu, 2 Apr 2015 17:14:30 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: New to Programming: TypeError: coercing to Unicode: need string
 or buffer, list found
In-Reply-To: <mailman.24.1428019417.12925.python-list@python.org>
References: <6203299c-f9b2-4169-9d68-4c92e0f7b32f@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.18.1427977502.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <57693d65-e683-4972-ac8d-97b2feace3bb@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.24.1428019417.12925.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <81391d9c-74a0-429a-82e6-d874057b8f9c@googlegroups.com>

On Thursday, April 2, 2015 at 8:03:53 PM UTC-4, Dennis Lee Bieber wrote:
> On Thu, 2 Apr 2015 05:46:57 -0700 (PDT), Saran A
> <ahlusar.ahluwalia at gmail.com> declaimed the following:
> 
> >
> >@ChrisA - this is a smaller function that will take the most updated file. My intention is the following:
> >
> >* Monitor a folder for files that are dropped throughout the day
> >
> 	I would suggest that your first prototype is to be a program that
> contains a function whose only purpose is to report on the files it finds
> -- forget about all the processing/moving of the files until you can
> successfully loop around the work of fetching the directory and handling
> the file names found (by maybe printing the names of the ones determined to
> be new since last fetch).
> 
> >* When a file is dropped in the folder the program should scan the file
> >
> >o IF all the contents in the file have the same length (let's assume line length)
> >
> >o THEN the file should be moved to a "success" folder and a text file written indicating the total number of records/lines/words processed
> >
> >o IF the file is empty OR the contents are not all of the same length
> >
> >o THEN the file should be moved to a "failure" folder and a text file written indicating the cause for failure (for example: Empty file or line 100 was not the same length as the rest).
> >
> 	You still haven't defined how you determine the "correct length" of the
> record. What if the first line is 79 characters, and all the others are 80
> characters? Do you report ALL lines EXCEPT the first as being the wrong
> length, when really it is the first line that is wrong?
> 
> 	Also, if the files are Unicode (UTF-8, in particular) -- the byte
> length of a line could differ but the character length could be the same.
> 
> >Here is the code I have written:
> >
> >import os
> >import time
> >import glob
> >import sys
> >
> >def initialize_logger(output_dir):
> >    logger = logging.getLogger()
> >    logger.setLevel(logging.DEBUG)
> >     
> >    # create console handler and set level to info
> >    handler = logging.StreamHandler()
> >    handler.setLevel(logging.INFO)
> >    formatter = logging.Formatter("%(levelname)s - %(message)s")
> >    handler.setFormatter(formatter)
> >    logger.addHandler(handler)
> > 
> >    # create error file handler and set level to error
> >    handler = logging.FileHandler(os.path.join(output_dir, "error.log"),"w", encoding=None, delay="true")
> >    handler.setLevel(logging.ERROR)
> >    formatter = logging.Formatter("%(levelname)s - %(message)s")
> >    handler.setFormatter(formatter)
> >    logger.addHandler(handler)
> >
> >    # create debug file handler and set level to debug
> >    handler = logging.FileHandler(os.path.join(output_dir, "all.log"),"w")
> >    handler.setLevel(logging.DEBUG)
> >    formatter = logging.Formatter("%(levelname)s - %(message)s")
> >    handler.setFormatter(formatter)
> >    logger.addHandler(handler)
> >
> >#Helper Functions for the Success and Failure Folder Outcomes, respectively
> >
> >#checks the length of the file
> >    def file_len(filename
> >        with open(filename) as f:
> >            for i, l in enumerate(f):
> >                pass
> >            return i + 1
> >
> >#copies file to new destination
> >
> >    def copyFile(src, dest):
> >        try:
> >            shutil.copy(src, dest)
> >        # eg. src and dest are the same file
> >        except shutil.Error as e:
> >            print('Error: %s' % e)
> >        # eg. source or destination doesn't exist
> >        except IOError as e:
> >            print('Error: %s' % e.strerror)
> >
> >#Failure Folder
> >
> >def move_to_failure_folder_and_return_error_file():
> >    os.mkdir('Failure')
> >    copyFile(filename, 'Failure')
> >    initialize_logger('rootdir/Failure')
> >    logging.error("Either this file is empty or the lines")
> >     
> ># Success Folder Requirement
> >             
> >def move_to_success_folder_and_read(file):
> >    os.mkdir('Success')
> >    copyFile(filename, 'Success')
> >    print("Success", file)
> >    return file_len()
> >
> >
> >#This simply checks the file information by name
> >
> >def fileinfo(file):
> >    filename = os.path.basename(file)
> >    rootdir = os.path.dirname(file)
> >    lastmod = time.ctime(os.path.getmtime(file))
> >    creation = time.ctime(os.path.getctime(file))
> >    filesize = os.path.getsize(file)
> >    return filename, rootdir, lastmod, creation, filesize
> >
> >if __name__ == '__main__':
> >   import sys
> >   validate_files(sys.argv[1:])
> 
> 	Yeesh... Did you even try running that?
> 
> 	validate_files		is not defined
> 	file_len				is at the wrong indentation
> 						is syntactically garbage
> 						is a big time-waste (you read the file just to
> enumerate the number of lines? Why didn't you count the lines while
> checking the line lengths)
> 	copyFile			is at the wrong indentation
> 						(after a bunch of word_word, why camelCase here)
> 
> 	Correct all the edit errors and copy/paste the actual file that at
> least attempts to run.
> 
> 	You might also want to look at os.stat, rather than using three os.path
> calls.
> -- 
> 	Wulfraed                 Dennis Lee Bieber         AF6VN
>     wlfraed at ix.netcom.com    HTTP://wlfraed.home.netcom.com/

@Dennis:

Below is my full program (so far). Please feel free to tear it apart and provide me with constructive criticism. I have been programming for 8 months now and this is a huge learning experience for me. Feedback and modifications is very welcome. 

What would be a better name for dirlist?

# # # Without data to examine here, I can only guess based on this requirement's language that 
# # fixed records are in the input.

##I made the assumption that the directories are in the same filesystem

# # Takes the function fileinfo as a starting point and demonstrates calling a function from within a function.  
# I tested this little sample on a small set of files created with MD5 checksums.  I wrote the Python in such a way as it 
# would work with Python 2.x or 3.x (note the __future__ at the top).

# # # There are so many wonderful ways of failure, so, from a development standpoint, I would probably spend a bit 
# # more time trying to determine which failure(s) I would want to report to the user, and how (perhaps creating my own Exceptions)

# # # The only other comments I would make are about safe-file handling.

# # #   #1:  Question: After a user has created a file that has failed (in
# # #        processing),can the user create a file with the same name?
# # #        If so, then you will probably want to look at some sort
# # #        of file-naming strategy to avoid overwriting evidence of
# # #        earlier failures.

# # # File naming is a tricky thing.  I referenced the tempfile module [1] and the Maildir naming scheme to see two different 
# # types of solutions to the problem of choosing a unique filename.

## I am assuming that all of my files are going to be specified in unicode  

## Utilized Spyder's Scientific Computing IDE to debug, check for indentation errors and test function suite

from __future__ import print_function

import os.path
import time
import difflib
import logging

def initialize_logger(output_dir):
    logger = logging.getLogger()
    logger.setLevel(logging.DEBUG)
     
    # create console handler and set level to info
    handler = logging.StreamHandler()
    handler.setLevel(logging.INFO)
    formatter = logging.Formatter("%(levelname)s - %(message)s")
    handler.setFormatter(formatter)
    logger.addHandler(handler)
 
    # create error file handler and set level to error
    handler = logging.FileHandler(os.path.join(output_dir, "error.log"),"w", encoding=None, delay="true")
    handler.setLevel(logging.ERROR)
    formatter = logging.Formatter("%(levelname)s - %(message)s")
    handler.setFormatter(formatter)
    logger.addHandler(handler)

    # create debug file handler and set level to debug
    handler = logging.FileHandler(os.path.join(output_dir, "all.log"),"w")
    handler.setLevel(logging.DEBUG)
    formatter = logging.Formatter("%(levelname)s - %(message)s")
    handler.setFormatter(formatter)
    logger.addHandler(handler)


#This function's purpose is to obtain the filename, rootdir and filesize 

def fileinfo(f):
    filename = os.path.basename(f)
    rootdir = os.path.dirname(f)  
    filesize = os.path.getsize(f)
    return filename, rootdir, filesize

#This helper function returns the length of the file
def file_len(f):
    with open(f) as f:
        for i, l in enumerate(f):
            pass
            return i + 1

#This helper function attempts to copy file and move file to the respective directory
#I am assuming that the directories are in the same filesystem

# If directories ARE in different file systems, I would use the following helper function:

# def move(src, dest): 
#     shutil.move(src, dest)

def copy_and_move_file(src, dest):
    try:
        os.rename(src, dest)
        # eg. src and dest are the same file
    except IOError as e:
        print('Error: %s' % e.strerror)


path = "."
dirlist = os.listdir(path)


# Caveats of the "main" function is that it does not scale well 
#(although it is appropriate if one assumes that there will be few changes)

# It does not account for updated files existing in the directory - only new files "dropped" in
# (If this was included in the requirements, os.stat would be appropriate here)

 
def main(dirlist):   
    before = dict([(f, 0) for f in dirlist])
    while True:
        time.sleep(1) #time between update check
    after = dict([(f, None) for f in dirlist])
    added = [f for f in after if not f in before]
    if added:
        f = ''.join(added)
        print('Sucessfully added %s file - ready to validate') %(f)
        return validate_files(f)
    else:
        return move_to_failure_folder_and_return_error_file(f)


    
def validate_files(f):
    creation = time.ctime(os.path.getctime(f))
    lastmod = time.ctime(os.path.getmtime(f))
    if creation == lastmod and file_len(f) > 0:
        return move_to_success_folder_and_read(f)
    if file_len < 0 and creation != lastmod:
        return move_to_success_folder_and_read(f)
    else:
        return move_to_failure_folder_and_return_error_file(f)


# Failure/Success Folder Functions

def move_to_failure_folder_and_return_error_file():
    filename, rootdir, lastmod, creation, filesize = fileinfo(file)  
    os.mkdir('Failure')
    copy_and_move_file( 'Failure')
    initialize_logger('rootdir/Failure')
    logging.error("Either this file is empty or there are no lines")
     
             
def move_to_success_folder_and_read():
    filename, rootdir, lastmod, creation, filesize = fileinfo(file)  
    os.mkdir('Success')
    copy_and_move_file(rootdir, 'Success') #file name
    print("Success", file)
    return file_len(file)



if __name__ == '__main__':
   main(dirlist) 


From ian.g.kelly at gmail.com  Thu Apr  2 20:21:53 2015
From: ian.g.kelly at gmail.com (Ian Kelly)
Date: Thu, 2 Apr 2015 18:21:53 -0600
Subject: A simple single line, triple-quoted comment is giving syntax
 error. Why?
In-Reply-To: <1905422.ubGH1B8UfE@PointedEars.de>
References: <f7b84d9d-c559-4711-ad63-1deea5f12c62@googlegroups.com>
 <med6mn$ag9$6@dont-email.me> <3533816.ZYnZ2OzjCs@PointedEars.de>
 <mailman.51.1426995416.10327.python-list@python.org>
 <3971951.908YQu3oQO@PointedEars.de>
 <mailman.52.1426997516.10327.python-list@python.org>
 <1504323.jUKfeKbQsP@PointedEars.de>
 <mailman.181.1427346636.10327.python-list@python.org>
 <2362875.FIK8ImHTJA@PointedEars.de>
 <mailman.211.1427394586.10327.python-list@python.org>
 <1823599.Pr2V0MPR6q@PointedEars.de>
 <mailman.223.1427412471.10327.python-list@python.org>
 <9781856.5cutuNVPEq@PointedEars.de>
 <mailman.300.1427615834.10327.python-list@python.org>
 <3894022.plrvF2nHWu@PointedEars.de>
 <mailman.362.1427786682.10327.python-list@python.org>
 <1905422.ubGH1B8UfE@PointedEars.de>
Message-ID: <CALwzidkTuKHK9kx3vt+6a34QZ3hcj7Wh1SRhv2u9DhXWpSEyEA@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Apr 2, 2015 at 3:31 PM, Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn
<PointedEars at web.de> wrote:
> Ian Kelly wrote:
>
>> [?] Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn [?] wrote:
>>> Ian Kelly wrote:
>>>> Within a grammar, the question of "is an X a Y" is nonsensical in
>>>> isolation. It can only be answered in relation to a parse tree.
>>>> Consider the simple grammar:
>>>>
>>>> S -> A | B
>>>> A -> x
>>>> B -> x
>>>>
>>>> Is x an A? It depends.
>>>
>>> No, by the definition 2 below, that we all accepted implicitly up to this
>>> point, x is *definitely* an A.
>>
>> What gives you the impression that I ever accepted it?
>
> ,-<news:mailman.181.1427346636.10327.python-list at python.org>
> |
> | What the grammar that you quoted from shows is that STRING+ is an
> | expression.
>
> There is *no way* for you to make that statement if you did not accept
> definition (2).

Actually, there is a very simple way: I was being sloppily imprecise
when I wrote that.  First, I was speaking only in reference to the
class of parse trees with more than one STRING, as that was the topic
under discussion. I should have been clearer about that. Second, I
never should have used the term "STRING+" there (or anywhere else in
this discussion), as that merely clouded the point I was trying to
offer. What I *meant* was that the complete sequence of produced
STRINGs -- as opposed to any individual STRING -- is an expression,
and I inappropriately used "STRING+" to denote that. (Maybe that is
the point you were trying to make when you were talking about EBNF
before.)

>> This question of whether "x is an A" is informal and not a topic of formal
>> language theory so far as I'm aware. Can you cite some source for it?
>
> No, because I was formalizing the ad-hoc definition by Chris Angelico in
> <news:mailman.51.1426995416.10327.python-list at python.org>.

That URI is not useful to me as I don't use a newsreader. Is that the
message dated Sun, 22 Mar 2015 14:36:48 +1100? I don't see any
suggestion of this definition in that post.

t>>> Now, according to these definitions, in the offered grammar x is *both*
>>> an A and a B.  Because what matters is _not_ the practical result of
>>> production chains (the actual parse tree), but the certainty of the
>>> theoretical possibility of it.
>>
>> This strikes me as being a lot like arguing, "some kites are toys, and
>> some kites are birds; therefore, all kites are both toys and birds."
>
> False analogy again.  We are discussing *in theory* a *formal* grammar.  Its
> goal symbols have *no meaning* except what can be produced from them.

We're discussing a formal grammar as if it described a classification
hierarchy, which gives meaning to statements like "A STRING is an
expr". Otherwise, that statement is meaningless and can be neither
true nor false. So I think that the analogy between one such hierarchy
and another is apt.

>> You're really going to make me spell it out, aren't you? Fine, here you
>> go.
>>
>> single_input -> [?] -> expr -> [?] -> atom -> STRING STRING
>>
>> Note: the derivation contains exactly one expr node, which indirectly
>> produces both STRINGs. Neither STRING in this derivation is
>> individually produced from the expr.
>
> So you have proven that which nobody ever doubted nor requested, but I
> pointed out already.

As I tried to point out several posts back when I suggested that we
were in agreement, and which you flatly denied.

> What you have still not proven is what you claimed:
> the parse tree.

Because you misunderstood my claim.


From ahlusar.ahluwalia at gmail.com  Thu Apr  2 21:30:42 2015
From: ahlusar.ahluwalia at gmail.com (Saran A)
Date: Thu, 2 Apr 2015 18:30:42 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: New to Programming: Adding custom functions with ipynotify classes
Message-ID: <3c02ea7e-b562-40c1-99cf-6e9784f37e7b@googlegroups.com>

Hello All:

Here is the program that I am trying to write (with specs):

* Monitors a folder for files that are dropped throughout the day 

* When a file is dropped in the folder the program should scan the file 

o IF all the records in the file have the same length (line length)

o THEN the file should be moved to a "success" folder and a text file written indicating the total number of records processed 

o IF the file is empty OR the records are not all of the same length 

o THEN the file should be moved to a "failure" folder and a text file written indicating the cause for failure (for example: Empty file or line 100 was not the same length as the rest).  

Many on forums suggest using ipynotify. I am wondering how to combine my current script and add it to the ipynotify.

Below is my original script (the ipynotify script is provided after this)
 
[code]
# # # Without data to examine here, I can only guess based on this requirement's language that 
# # fixed records are in the input.

##I made the assumption that the directories are in the same filesystem

# # Takes the function fileinfo as a starting point and demonstrates calling a function from within a function.  
# I tested this little sample on a small set of files created with MD5 checksums.  I wrote the Python in such a way as it 
# would work with Python 2.x or 3.x (note the __future__ at the top).

# # # There are so many wonderful ways of failure, so, from a development standpoint, I would probably spend a bit 
# # more time trying to determine which failure(s) I would want to report to the user, and how (perhaps creating my own Exceptions)

# # # The only other comments I would make are about safe-file handling.

# # #   #1:  Question: After a user has created a file that has failed (in
# # #        processing),can the user create a file with the same name?
# # #        If so, then you will probably want to look at some sort
# # #        of file-naming strategy to avoid overwriting evidence of
# # #        earlier failures.

# # # File naming is a tricky thing.  I referenced the tempfile module [1] and the Maildir naming scheme to see two different 
# # types of solutions to the problem of choosing a unique filename.

## I am assuming that all of my files are going to be specified in unicode  

## Utilized Spyder's Scientific Computing IDE to debug, check for indentation errors and test function suite

from __future__ import print_function

import os.path
import time
import difflib
import logging

def initialize_logger(output_dir):
    logger = logging.getLogger()
    logger.setLevel(logging.DEBUG)
     
    # create console handler and set level to info
    handler = logging.StreamHandler()
    handler.setLevel(logging.INFO)
    formatter = logging.Formatter("%(levelname)s - %(message)s")
    handler.setFormatter(formatter)
    logger.addHandler(handler)
 
    # create error file handler and set level to error
    handler = logging.FileHandler(os.path.join(output_dir, "error.log"),"w", encoding=None, delay="true")
    handler.setLevel(logging.ERROR)
    formatter = logging.Formatter("%(levelname)s - %(message)s")
    handler.setFormatter(formatter)
    logger.addHandler(handler)

    # create debug file handler and set level to debug
    handler = logging.FileHandler(os.path.join(output_dir, "all.log"),"w")
    handler.setLevel(logging.DEBUG)
    formatter = logging.Formatter("%(levelname)s - %(message)s")
    handler.setFormatter(formatter)
    logger.addHandler(handler)


#This function's purpose is to obtain the filename, rootdir and filesize 

def fileinfo(f):
    filename = os.path.basename(f)
    rootdir = os.path.dirname(f)  
    filesize = os.path.getsize(f)
    return filename, rootdir, filesize

#This helper function returns the length of the file
def file_len(f):
    with open(f) as f:
        for i, l in enumerate(f):
            pass
            return i + 1

#This helper function attempts to copy file and move file to the respective directory
#I am assuming that the directories are in the same filesystem

# If directories ARE in different file systems, I would use the following helper function:

# def move(src, dest): 
#     shutil.move(src, dest)

def copy_and_move_file(src, dest):
    try:
        os.rename(src, dest)
        # eg. src and dest are the same file
    except IOError as e:
        print('Error: %s' % e.strerror)


path = "."
dirlist = os.listdir(path)


# Caveats of the "main" function is that it does not scale well 
#(although it is appropriate if one assumes that there will be few changes)

# It does not account for updated files existing in the directory - only new files "dropped" in
# (If this was included in the requirements, os.stat would be appropriate here)

 
def main(dirlist):   
    before = dict([(f, 0) for f in dirlist])
    while True:
        time.sleep(1) #time between update check
    after = dict([(f, None) for f in dirlist])
    added = [f for f in after if not f in before]
    if added:
        f = ''.join(added)
        print('Sucessfully added %s file - ready to validate') %(f)
        return validate_files(f)
    else:
        return move_to_failure_folder_and_return_error_file(f)


    
def validate_files(f):
    creation = time.ctime(os.path.getctime(f))
    lastmod = time.ctime(os.path.getmtime(f))
    if creation == lastmod and file_len(f) > 0:
        return move_to_success_folder_and_read(f)
    if file_len < 0 and creation != lastmod:
        return move_to_success_folder_and_read(f)
    else:
        return move_to_failure_folder_and_return_error_file(f)


# Failure/Success Folder Functions

def move_to_failure_folder_and_return_error_file():
    filename, rootdir, lastmod, creation, filesize = fileinfo(file)  
    os.mkdir('Failure')
    copy_and_move_file( 'Failure')
    initialize_logger('rootdir/Failure')
    logging.error("Either this file is empty or there are no lines")
     
             
def move_to_success_folder_and_read():
    filename, rootdir, lastmod, creation, filesize = fileinfo(file)  
    os.mkdir('Success')
    copy_and_move_file(rootdir, 'Success') #file name
    print("Success", file)
    return file_len(file)



if __name__ == '__main__':
   main(dirlist) 
[/code]

Here is my ipynotify script that I have tried writing, following the tutorial:

[code]

# My version for w: monitors events and logs them into a log file.
#
import os.path
from pyinotify import pyinotify

timestamp = datetime.today() #time_record
mask = pyinotify.IN_CREATE | pyinotify.IN_MOVED_TO  #watched events

class EventHandler(pyinotify.ProcessEvent):
    def process_IN_CREATE(self, event):
        print "Created: %s " % os.path.join(event.path, event.name)
        event_log = open('/Users/sahluwalia/Desktop/', 'a')
        event_log.write(event.name + ' - ' + timestamp.strftime('%c') + '\n')
        event_log.close()

    def process_IN_MOVED_TO(self, event):
        print "Moved: %s " % os.path.join(event.path, event.name)
        event_log = open('/Users/sahluwalia/Desktop/', 'a')
        event_log.write(event.name + ' - ' + timestamp.strftime('%c') + '\n')
        event_log.close()


handler = EventHandler() #instantiated EventHandler Class
notifier = pyinotify.Notifier(wm, handler)

class Watcher(pyinotify.ProcessEvent): #I haave modified the Watcher class to process and read a new file creation or added file

    watchdir = '/tmp/watch'

    def __init__(self):
        pyinotify.ProcessEvent.__init__(self)
        wm = pyinotify.WatchManager()
        self.notifier = pyinotify.ThreadedNotifier(wm, self)
        wdd = wm.add_watch(self.watchdir, pyinotify.EventsCodes.IN_CREATE)
        print "Watching", self.watchdir
        self.notifier.start()

    def process_IN_CREATE(self, event):
        print "Seen:", event
        pathname = os.path.join(event.path, event.name)
        pfile = self._parse(pathname)
        print(pfile)

    def process_IN_MOVED_TO(self, event):
        print "Moved: %s " % os.path.join(event.path, event.name)
        pathname = os.path.join(event.path, event.name)
        pfile = self._parse(pathname)
        print(pfile)

    def _parse(self, filename):
        f = open(filename)
        file = [line.strip() for line in f]
        f.close()
        return file


class Log(pyinotify.ProcessEvent):
    def my_init(self, fileobj):
        """
        Method automatically called from ProcessEvent.__init__(). Additional
        keyworded arguments passed to ProcessEvent.__init__() are then
        delegated to my_init(). This is the case for fileobj.
        """
        self._fileobj = fileobj

    def process_default(self, event):
        self._fileobj.write(str(event) + '\n')
        self._fileobj.flush()

class TrackModifications(pyinotify.ProcessEvent):
    def process_IN_MODIFY(self, event):
        print 'IN_MODIFY'

class Empty(pyinotify.ProcessEvent): #Inherited class to display message  
    def my_init(self, msg):
        self._msg = msg

    def process_default(self, event): #writes decribing the event
        print self._msg


# pyinotify.log.setLevel(10)
filelog = file('/Failure', 'w')

while True:
    try:
        notifier.process_events()
        if notifier.check_events():
            notifier.read_events()
    try:
    # It is important to pass named extra arguments like 'fileobj'
        handler = Empty(TrackModifications(Log(fileobj=filelog)), msg='This is an error message or notificaiton that will be logged  ')
        notifier = pyinotify.Notifier(wm, default_proc_fun=handler)
        wm.add_watch('/tmp', pyinotify.ALL_EVENTS)
        notifier.loop()
        filelog.close()
    except KeyboardInterrupt:
        notifier.stop()
        break
    finally:
        filelog.close()


if __name__ == '__main__':
      Watcher()

[/code]


From hayesstw at telkomsa.net  Fri Apr  3 00:44:19 2015
From: hayesstw at telkomsa.net (Steve Hayes)
Date: Fri, 03 Apr 2015 06:44:19 +0200
Subject: New to Programming - XML Processing
References: <mailman.20.1427978860.12925.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <ti6shalapff4el2isinqtb57e2qru3rae2@4ax.com>

On Thu, 2 Apr 2015 05:42:18 -0700, Albert-Jan Roskam <fomcl at yahoo.com>
wrote:

>
>-----------------------------
>On Wed, Apr 1, 2015 10:00 AM CEST Mark Lawrence wrote:
>
>>On 01/04/2015 05:27, Andrew Farrell wrote:
>>> You should follow Rustom's advice before just diving into the blog post
>>> I linked to. Otherwise you risk blindly following things and losing your
>>> bearings when you run into bugs.
>>> 
>>
>>Sound advice, but would you please be kind enough to intersperse your answers or bottom post as top posting is heavily frowned upon here.
>>
>>TIA.
>
>Would it be possible to use a script that checks every incoming mail to the Python mail list? Main ingredients beatfilsoup (to textify 


And that badly formatted posts like this are corrected for proper line
length.

 
-- 
Steve Hayes from Tshwane, South Africa
Web:  http://www.khanya.org.za/stevesig.htm
Blog: http://khanya.wordpress.com
E-mail - see web page, or parse: shayes at dunelm full stop org full stop uk


From steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info  Fri Apr  3 01:40:18 2015
From: steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: Fri, 03 Apr 2015 16:40:18 +1100
Subject: A simple single line,
 triple-quoted comment is giving syntax error. Why?
References: <f7b84d9d-c559-4711-ad63-1deea5f12c62@googlegroups.com>
 <med6mn$ag9$6@dont-email.me> <3533816.ZYnZ2OzjCs@PointedEars.de>
 <mailman.51.1426995416.10327.python-list@python.org>
 <3971951.908YQu3oQO@PointedEars.de>
 <mailman.52.1426997516.10327.python-list@python.org>
 <1504323.jUKfeKbQsP@PointedEars.de>
 <mailman.181.1427346636.10327.python-list@python.org>
 <2362875.FIK8ImHTJA@PointedEars.de>
 <mailman.211.1427394586.10327.python-list@python.org>
 <1823599.Pr2V0MPR6q@PointedEars.de>
 <mailman.223.1427412471.10327.python-list@python.org>
 <9781856.5cutuNVPEq@PointedEars.de>
 <mailman.300.1427615834.10327.python-list@python.org>
 <3894022.plrvF2nHWu@PointedEars.de>
 <mailman.362.1427786682.10327.python-list@python.org>
 <1905422.ubGH1B8UfE@PointedEars.de>
Message-ID: <551e27c5$0$12904$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

On Friday 03 April 2015 08:31, Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn wrote:

> I am sorry that you cannot see that your argument is strewn with gaping
> defects in logic, but I think I will stop trying to convince you of that
> now.

I'm sorry, I've been away for four days and have lost track of this thread. 
Have you reached an agreement about the number of angels which dance on the 
head of a pin yet, or will this argument continue for another week?

This sterile, pointless arguing about the minutia of pedantic definitions is 
not even close to useful. Honestly Thomas, Ian, nobody cares any more. If I 
were a betting man, I'd bet that neither of you can describe, in one 
sentence, what is the actual disagreement between the two of you, let alone 
why it matters for Python programming.


-- 
Steve



From rosuav at gmail.com  Fri Apr  3 01:57:57 2015
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Fri, 3 Apr 2015 16:57:57 +1100
Subject: A simple single line, triple-quoted comment is giving syntax
 error. Why?
In-Reply-To: <551e27c5$0$12904$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
References: <f7b84d9d-c559-4711-ad63-1deea5f12c62@googlegroups.com>
 <med6mn$ag9$6@dont-email.me> <3533816.ZYnZ2OzjCs@PointedEars.de>
 <mailman.51.1426995416.10327.python-list@python.org>
 <3971951.908YQu3oQO@PointedEars.de>
 <mailman.52.1426997516.10327.python-list@python.org>
 <1504323.jUKfeKbQsP@PointedEars.de>
 <mailman.181.1427346636.10327.python-list@python.org>
 <2362875.FIK8ImHTJA@PointedEars.de>
 <mailman.211.1427394586.10327.python-list@python.org>
 <1823599.Pr2V0MPR6q@PointedEars.de>
 <mailman.223.1427412471.10327.python-list@python.org>
 <9781856.5cutuNVPEq@PointedEars.de>
 <mailman.300.1427615834.10327.python-list@python.org>
 <3894022.plrvF2nHWu@PointedEars.de>
 <mailman.362.1427786682.10327.python-list@python.org>
 <1905422.ubGH1B8UfE@PointedEars.de>
 <551e27c5$0$12904$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmoAja2gCOUB9nduH-zK6bzGPcBV_xL48han7yrMSuC1fw@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Apr 3, 2015 at 4:40 PM, Steven D'Aprano
<steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info> wrote:
> This sterile, pointless arguing about the minutia of pedantic definitions is
> not even close to useful. Honestly Thomas, Ian, nobody cares any more. If I
> were a betting man, I'd bet that neither of you can describe, in one
> sentence, what is the actual disagreement between the two of you, let alone
> why it matters for Python programming.

I know that it started in response to my statement that string literal
concatenation wasn't an expression as such, but I have no idea what
either side of the current debate is, nor how it affects my
statement's validity. I _had_ hoped it would reach some sort of
conclusion - I may be right, I may be wrong, but it'd be nice to know
which. So far... no idea.

ChrisA


From steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info  Fri Apr  3 02:02:35 2015
From: steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: Fri, 03 Apr 2015 17:02:35 +1100
Subject: generator/coroutine terminology
References: <ff0bc8eb-63e4-40ea-8d31-301625a3d470@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.379.1426371862.21433.python-list@python.org>
 <87y4mznmj8.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <55062bda$0$12998$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <551a9ebe$0$2987$e4fe514c@dreader35.news.xs4all.nl>
Message-ID: <551e2cfd$0$11123$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>

On Wednesday 01 April 2015 00:18, Albert van der Horst wrote:

> In article <55062bda$0$12998$c3e8da3$5496439d at news.astraweb.com>,
> Steven D'Aprano  <steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info> wrote:

>>The biggest difference is syntactic. Here's an iterator which returns a
>>never-ending sequence of squared numbers 1, 4, 9, 16, ...
>>
>>class Squares:
>>    def __init__(self):
>>        self.i = 0
>>    def __next__(self):
>>        self.i += 1
>>        return self.i**2
>>    def __iter__(self):
>>        return self
> 
> You should give an example of usage. As a newby I'm not up to
> figuring out the specification from source for
> something built of the mysterious __ internal
> thingies.
> (I did experiment with Squares interactively. But I didn't get
> further than creating a Squares object.)


Ah, sorry about that!

Usage is:

it = Squares()  # create an iterator
print(next(it))  # print the first value
x = next(it)  # extract the second
while x < 100:
    print(x)
    x = next(it)


Beware of doing this:

for x in Squares():
    print(x)

since Squares is an *infinite* generator, it will continue for ever if you 
let it. Fortunately you can hit Ctrl-C to interrupt the for loop at any 
point.

In Python 2, you will need to rename __next__ to just next without the 
double-leading-and-trailing underscores.


>>Here's the same thing written as a generator:
>>
>>def squares():
>>    i = 1
>>    while True:
>>        yield i**2
>>        i += 1

And for this one:

it = squares()  # create the iterator
print(next(it))  # print the first value
x = next(it)  # extract the second
while x < 100:
    print(x)
    x = next(it)


Usage is pretty much exactly the same.


-- 
Steve



From ian.g.kelly at gmail.com  Fri Apr  3 02:40:05 2015
From: ian.g.kelly at gmail.com (Ian Kelly)
Date: Fri, 3 Apr 2015 00:40:05 -0600
Subject: A simple single line, triple-quoted comment is giving syntax
 error. Why?
In-Reply-To: <551e27c5$0$12904$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
References: <f7b84d9d-c559-4711-ad63-1deea5f12c62@googlegroups.com>
 <med6mn$ag9$6@dont-email.me> <3533816.ZYnZ2OzjCs@PointedEars.de>
 <mailman.51.1426995416.10327.python-list@python.org>
 <3971951.908YQu3oQO@PointedEars.de>
 <mailman.52.1426997516.10327.python-list@python.org>
 <1504323.jUKfeKbQsP@PointedEars.de>
 <mailman.181.1427346636.10327.python-list@python.org>
 <2362875.FIK8ImHTJA@PointedEars.de>
 <mailman.211.1427394586.10327.python-list@python.org>
 <1823599.Pr2V0MPR6q@PointedEars.de>
 <mailman.223.1427412471.10327.python-list@python.org>
 <9781856.5cutuNVPEq@PointedEars.de>
 <mailman.300.1427615834.10327.python-list@python.org>
 <3894022.plrvF2nHWu@PointedEars.de>
 <mailman.362.1427786682.10327.python-list@python.org>
 <1905422.ubGH1B8UfE@PointedEars.de>
 <551e27c5$0$12904$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <CALwzid=JbOiT91AeGv4pCV-CVxG3NYvkVksM=uKzQXgsyOxGzw@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Apr 2, 2015 at 11:40 PM, Steven D'Aprano
<steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info> wrote:
> This sterile, pointless arguing about the minutia of pedantic definitions is
> not even close to useful. Honestly Thomas, Ian, nobody cares any more. If I
> were a betting man, I'd bet that neither of you can describe, in one
> sentence, what is the actual disagreement between the two of you, let alone
> why it matters for Python programming.

Oh, either of us *could* describe it in one sentence; it's just that
our descriptions of how we disagree would not agree. ;-)


From no.email at nospam.invalid  Fri Apr  3 02:46:42 2015
From: no.email at nospam.invalid (Paul Rubin)
Date: Thu, 02 Apr 2015 23:46:42 -0700
Subject: generator/coroutine terminology
References: <ff0bc8eb-63e4-40ea-8d31-301625a3d470@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.379.1426371862.21433.python-list@python.org>
 <87y4mznmj8.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <55062bda$0$12998$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <551a9ebe$0$2987$e4fe514c@dreader35.news.xs4all.nl>
Message-ID: <87h9sx90a5.fsf@jester.gateway.sonic.net>

albert at spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) writes:
> You should give an example of usage. As a newby I'm not up to
> figuring out the specification from source for
> something built of the mysterious __ internal
> thingies.

In reality because of generator expressions, the yield statement, and
some useful built-in generators in the itertools module, you rarely
have to use those special methods.  

I'd advise reading through the itertools module documentation from
beginning to end, trying to understand what everything does.  Even if
some are not that useful, it will help convey the mode of thinking that
went into these features.

At a somewhat deeper level you might like the SICP book: 

  http://mitpress.mit.edu/sicp/

It's somewhat old now and it's about Scheme rather than Python, but it
builds up the relevant concepts quite nicely.

Regarding the squares example, consider this even simpler generator:

  def count(n):
   while True:
     yield n
     n += 1

so count(1) yields 1, 2, 3, 4 ...

This is a very useful generator but you don't need to write it since
it's included in the itertools module as itertools.count.  Its initial
value defaults to 0.  So the  squares generator can be written:

   def squares():
      return (i*i for i in itertools.count(0))

Now if you want all the squares less than 100 (i.e. 0, 1, 4, 9, ..., 81):

  wanted = itertools.takewhile(lambda x: x<100, squares())

You can print that out as a list:

   print(list(wanted))

The built-in sum function consumes an iterator, so you can add up the
squares less than 100:

  print(sum(itertools.takewhile(lambda x: x<100, squares())))

this prints 205 which is 1+4+9+16+25+36+49+64+81.

These features fit together quite elegantly and code like this flows off
the fingertips naturally once you've used to it.


From marko at pacujo.net  Fri Apr  3 03:13:11 2015
From: marko at pacujo.net (Marko Rauhamaa)
Date: Fri, 03 Apr 2015 10:13:11 +0300
Subject: A simple single line,
 triple-quoted comment is giving syntax error. Why?
References: <f7b84d9d-c559-4711-ad63-1deea5f12c62@googlegroups.com>
 <med6mn$ag9$6@dont-email.me> <3533816.ZYnZ2OzjCs@PointedEars.de>
 <mailman.51.1426995416.10327.python-list@python.org>
 <3971951.908YQu3oQO@PointedEars.de>
 <mailman.52.1426997516.10327.python-list@python.org>
 <1504323.jUKfeKbQsP@PointedEars.de>
 <mailman.181.1427346636.10327.python-list@python.org>
 <2362875.FIK8ImHTJA@PointedEars.de>
 <mailman.211.1427394586.10327.python-list@python.org>
 <1823599.Pr2V0MPR6q@PointedEars.de>
 <mailman.223.1427412471.10327.python-list@python.org>
 <9781856.5cutuNVPEq@PointedEars.de>
 <mailman.300.1427615834.10327.python-list@python.org>
 <3894022.plrvF2nHWu@PointedEars.de>
 <mailman.362.1427786682.10327.python-list@python.org>
 <1905422.ubGH1B8UfE@PointedEars.de>
 <551e27c5$0$12904$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <mailman.27.1428040681.12925.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <874mox3cs8.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>

Chris Angelico <rosuav at gmail.com>:

> I know that it started in response to my statement that string literal
> concatenation wasn't an expression as such, but I have no idea what
> either side of the current debate is, nor how it affects my
> statement's validity.

This is what I have gathered:

 - A Python expression cannot directly follow another expression. A
   connector is required by the syntax.

 - That's untrue:
    * "abc"  is an expression
    * "def"  is an expression
    * "abc" "def"  is an expression
   QED

 - Merging "abc" "def" is a matter of lexical analysis.

 - No, it's right there in the syntax definition.

 - Well, ok, however, the parse tree for "abc" "def" is not

   expr:
     expr:
       atom:
         string: "abc"
     expr:
       atom:
         string: "def"

   Rather, the correct parse tree is:

   expr:
     expr:
       atom:
         string: "abc"
         string: "def"

   Thus, a Python expression still is not directly following another
   expression.


My own take: all sides are correct. Thomas is most correct and is being
obnoxious about it.

 1. A lexical analyzer *could* take care of concatenating string
    literals. It would have to be smart enough to handle intervening
    comments. On the other hand, the lexical analyzer is just a part of
    the parser; the line between them often is blurred.

 2. The counterexample "abc" "def" *does* demonstrate that expressions
    can at times follow each other immediately. It is a nice point even
    if not all that consequential.

    Somewhat analogously:
     * ord  is an expression
     * ("a")  is an expression
     * ord("a")  is an expression

 3. Arguing about definitions is silly. Is 0 a natural number? Is 1 a
    prime number?


Marko


From __peter__ at web.de  Fri Apr  3 06:45:17 2015
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Fri, 03 Apr 2015 12:45:17 +0200
Subject: Strategy/ Advice for How to Best Attack this Problem?
References: <b803183b-6da5-4907-825d-9386b2bc2798@googlegroups.com>
 <87a8yvs34u.fsf@jester.gateway.pace.com>
 <mailman.323.1427681070.10327.python-list@python.org>
 <bc19cb8e-9e4f-48a7-a9f5-4b39db09a7ce@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.344.1427740538.10327.python-list@python.org>
 <0623f75c-bf93-4a0f-9d87-86986185cdc3@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.371.1427807964.10327.python-list@python.org>
 <fcd8bbbc-2d81-4797-aa0e-090683e72f3f@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.16.1427932335.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <ba29c06d-3cdc-412e-90a0-b1119a360570@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.23.1428009062.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <4d3a3336-5dc1-4fe8-8ef6-1616c6629d01@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <mflr0e$lbk$1@ger.gmane.org>

Saran A wrote:

> I debugged and rewrote everything. Here is the full version. Feel free to
> tear this apart. The homework assignment is not due until tomorrow, so I
> am currently also experimenting with pyinotify as well.

Saran, try to make a realistic assessment of your capability. Your 
"debugged" code still has this gem

>    while True:
>        time.sleep(1) #time between update check

and you are likely to miss your deadline anyway.

While the inotify approach may be the "right way" to attack this problem 
from the point of view of an experienced developer like Chris as a newbie 
you should stick to the simplest thing that can possibly work.

In a previous post I mentioned unit tests, but even an ad-hoc test in the 
interactive interpreter will show that your file_len() function doesn't work

> #returns length of file
> def file_len(f):
>     with open(f) as f:
>         for i, l in enumerate(f):
>             pass
>             return i + 1
> 

$ python
Python 2.7.6 (default, Mar 22 2014, 22:59:56) 
[GCC 4.8.2] on linux2
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> #returns length of file
... def file_len(f):
...     with open(f) as f:
...         for i, l in enumerate(f):
...             pass
...             return i + 1
... 
>>> with open("tmp.txt", "w") as f: f.write("abcde")
... 
>>> file_len("tmp.txt")
1

It reports size 1 for every file. 

A simple unit test would look like this (assuming watchscript.py is the name 
of the script to be tested):

import unittest

from watchscript import file_len

class FileLen(unittest.TestCase):
    def test_five(self):
        LEN = 5
        FILENAME = "tmp.txt"
        with open(FILENAME, "w") as f:
            f.write("*" * LEN)

        self.assertEqual(file_len(FILENAME), 5)
        
if __name__ == "__main__":
    unittest.main()

Typically for every tested function you add a new TestCase subclass and for 
every test you perform for that function you add a test_...() method to that 
class. The unittest.main() will collect these methods, run them and generate 
a report. For the above example it will complain:

$ python test_watchscript.py 
F
======================================================================
FAIL: test_five (__main__.FileLen)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "test_watchscript.py", line 12, in test_five
    self.assertEqual(file_len(FILENAME), 5)
AssertionError: 1 != 5

----------------------------------------------------------------------
Ran 1 test in 0.001s

FAILED (failures=1)


The file_len() function is but an example of the many problems with your 
code. There is no shortcut, you have to decide for every function what 
exactly it should do and then verify that it actually does what it is meant 
to do. Try to negotiate an extra week or two with your supervisor and then 
start small:

On day one make a script that moves all files from one directory to another.
Make sure that the source and destination directory are only stored in one 
place in your script so that they can easily be replaced. Run the script 
after every change and devise tests that demonstrate that it works 
correctly.

On day two make a script that checks all files in a directory. Put the 
checks into a function that takes a file path as its only parameter.
Write a few correct and a few broken files and test that only the correct 
ones are recognized as correct, and only the broken ones are flagged as 
broken, and that all files in the directory are checked.

On day three make a script that combines the above and only moves the 
correct files into another directory. Devise tests to verify that both 
directories contain the expected files before and after your script is 
executed.

On day four make a script that also moves the bad files into another 
directory. Modify your tests from the previous day to check the contents of 
all three directories.

On day five wrap your previous efforts in a loop that runs forever.
I seems to work? You are not done. Write tests that demonstrate that it does 
work. Try to think of the corner cases: what if there are no new files on 
one iteration? What if there is a new file with the same name as a previous 
one? Don't handwave, describe the reaction of your script in plain English 
with all the gory details and then translate into Python.

Heureka!

Note that a "day" in the above outline can be 15 minutes or a week. You're 
done when you're done. Also note that the amount of code you have written 
bears no indication of how close you are to your goal. An experienced 
programmer will end up with less code than you to fulfill the same spec. 
That shouldn't bother you. On the other hand you should remove code that 
doesn't contribute to your script's goal immediately. If you keep failed 
attempts and side tracks your code will become harder and harder to 
maintain, and that's the last thing you need when it's already hard to get 
the necessary parts right. 

Good luck!




From steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info  Fri Apr  3 07:37:29 2015
From: steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: Fri, 03 Apr 2015 22:37:29 +1100
Subject: New to Programming: Adding custom functions with ipynotify classes
References: <3c02ea7e-b562-40c1-99cf-6e9784f37e7b@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <551e7b7a$0$13012$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

On Fri, 3 Apr 2015 12:30 pm, Saran A wrote:

> Hello All:
> 
> Here is the program that I am trying to write (with specs):
[...]

Do you have an actual question?

If you want a code review of your entire application, the polite thing to do
is to ask for volunteers first, before dropping 200+ lines of code on us.

If you have a specific question you would like to ask, then it is good to
focus on that issue alone, not your entire application. I see you say this:

> Many on forums suggest using ipynotify. I am wondering how to combine my
> current script and add it to the ipynotify.

Have you read the examples and followed the tutorial?

https://github.com/seb-m/pyinotify/wiki/List-of-Examples

https://github.com/seb-m/pyinotify/wiki/Tutorial


By the way, I have found at least one bug in your code:

> #This helper function returns the length of the file
> def file_len(f):
>     with open(f) as f:
>         for i, l in enumerate(f):
>             pass
>             return i + 1

Not as given it doesn't. It will raise an exception if the file cannot be
opened, and it will return 1 for any file you can read.

After you fix the incorrect indentation, the function is horribly
inefficient. Instead, use this:

import os
os.stat(filename).st_size





-- 
Steven



From d at davea.name  Fri Apr  3 07:59:28 2015
From: d at davea.name (Dave Angel)
Date: Fri, 03 Apr 2015 07:59:28 -0400
Subject: Strategy/ Advice for How to Best Attack this Problem?
In-Reply-To: <4d3a3336-5dc1-4fe8-8ef6-1616c6629d01@googlegroups.com>
References: <b803183b-6da5-4907-825d-9386b2bc2798@googlegroups.com>
 <87a8yvs34u.fsf@jester.gateway.pace.com>
 <mailman.323.1427681070.10327.python-list@python.org>
 <bc19cb8e-9e4f-48a7-a9f5-4b39db09a7ce@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.344.1427740538.10327.python-list@python.org>
 <0623f75c-bf93-4a0f-9d87-86986185cdc3@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.371.1427807964.10327.python-list@python.org>
 <fcd8bbbc-2d81-4797-aa0e-090683e72f3f@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.16.1427932335.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <ba29c06d-3cdc-412e-90a0-b1119a360570@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.23.1428009062.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <4d3a3336-5dc1-4fe8-8ef6-1616c6629d01@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <551E80A0.9070205@davea.name>

On 04/02/2015 07:43 PM, Saran A wrote:
    <snip>
>
> I debugged and rewrote everything. Here is the full version. Feel free to tear this apart. The homework assignment is not due until tomorrow, so I am currently also experimenting with pyinotify as well. I do have questions regarding how to make this function compatible with the ProcessEvent Class. I will create another post for this.
>
> What would you advise in regards to renaming the inaptly named dirlist?

Asked and answered.  You called it path at one point.  dir_name would 
also be good.  The point is that if you have a good name, you're less 
likely to have unreasonable code processing that name.  For example,

>
> # # # Without data to examine here, I can only guess based on this requirement's language that
> # # fixed records are in the input.  If so, here's a slight revision to the helper functions that I wrote earlier which
> # # takes the function fileinfo as a starting point and demonstrates calling a function from within a function.
> # I tested this little sample on a small set of files created with MD5 checksums.  I wrote the Python in such a way as it
> # would work with Python 2.x or 3.x (note the __future__ at the top).
>
> # # # There are so many wonderful ways of failure, so, from a development standpoint, I would probably spend a bit
> # # more time trying to determine which failure(s) I would want to report to the user, and how (perhaps creating my own Exceptions)
>
> # # # The only other comments I would make are about safe-file handling.
>
> # # #   #1:  Question: After a user has created a file that has failed (in
> # # #        processing),can the user create a file with the same name?
> # # #        If so, then you will probably want to look at some sort
> # # #        of file-naming strategy to avoid overwriting evidence of
> # # #        earlier failures.
>
> # # # File naming is a tricky thing.  I referenced the tempfile module [1] and the Maildir naming scheme to see two different
> # # types of solutions to the problem of choosing a unique filename.
>> ## I am assuming that all of my files are going to be specified in unicode
>
> ## Utilized Spyder's Scientific Computing IDE to debug, check for indentation errors and test function suite
>
> from __future__ import print_function
>
> import os.path
> import time
> import logging
>
>
> def initialize_logger(output_dir):
            <snip>

I didn't ever bother to read the body of this function, since a simple

       print(mydata, file=mylog_file)

will suffice to add data to the chosen text file.  Why is it constantly 
getting more complex, to solve a problem that was simple in the beginning?

>
>
> #Returns filename, rootdir and filesize
>
> def fileinfo(f):
>      filename = os.path.basename(f)
>      rootdir = os.path.dirname(f)
>      filesize = os.path.getsize(f)
>      return filename, rootdir, filesize
>
> #returns length of file
> def file_len(f):
>      with open(f) as f:
>          for i, l in enumerate(f):
>              pass
>              return i + 1

Always returns 1 or None.  Check the indentation, and test to see what 
it does for empty file, for a file with one line, and for a file with 
more than one line.


> #attempts to copy file and move file to it's directory
> def copy_and_move_file(src, dest):

Which is it, are you trying to copy it, or move it?  Pick one and make a 
good function name that shows your choice.

>      try:
>          os.rename(src, dest)

Why are you using rename, when you're trying to move the file?  Take a 
closer look at shutil, and see if it has a function that does it safer 
than rename.  The function you need uses rename, when it'll work, and 
does it other ways when rename will not.

>          # eg. src and dest are the same file
>      except IOError as e:
>          print('Error: %s' % e.strerror)

A try/except that doesn't try to correct the problem is not generally 
useful.  Figure out what could be triggering the exception, and how 
you're going to handle it.  If it cannot be handled, terminate the program.

For example, what if you don't have permissions to modify one of the 
specified directories?  You can't get any useful work done, so you 
should notify the user and exit.  An alternative is to produce 50 
thousand reports of each file you've got, telling how it succeeded or 
failed, over and over.

>
> path = "."
> dirlist = os.listdir(path)
>
> def main(dirlist):
>      before = dict([(f, 0) for f in dirlist])

Since dirlist is a path, it's a string.  So you're looping through the 
characters of the name of the path.  I still don't have a clue what the 
dict is supposed to mean here.

>      while True:
>          time.sleep(1) #time between update check

That loop goes forever, so the following code will never run.

>      after = dict([(f, None) for f in dirlist])

Once again, you're looping through the letters of the directory name. 
Or if dirlist is really a list, and you're deciding that's what it 
should be, then of course after will be identical to before.

>      added = [f for f in after if not f in before]
>      if added:
>          f = ''.join(added)
>          print('Sucessfully added %s file - ready to validate') %()
>          return validate_files(f)
>      else:
>          return move_to_failure_folder_and_return_error_file(f)
>
>
>
> def validate_files(f):

You completely changed the scope of this function.  Why does it still 
have an s in its name?

>      creation = time.ctime(os.path.getctime(f))
>      lastmod = time.ctime(os.path.getmtime(f))

What do timestamps have to do with anything?

>      if creation == lastmod and file_len(f) > 0:
>          return move_to_success_folder_and_read(f)

How have you decided that the records are all the same length?

>      if file_len < 0 and creation != lastmod:

file_len cannot be safely compared to 0, it's a function.  If this were 
Python 3, it would give you a runtime error for trying.  Even if you had 
successfully called the function here, how is it possible for it to 
return a negative value?

>          return move_to_success_folder_and_read(f)
>      else:
>          return move_to_failure_folder_and_return_error_file(f)
>
>
> #Potential Additions/Substitutions
>
> def move_to_failure_folder_and_return_error_file():
>      filename, rootdir, lastmod, creation, filesize = fileinfo(file)

fileinfo() returns 3 things, and you're stuffing them in 5 variables.

>      os.mkdir('Failure')

What do you do the second time through this function, when that 
directory is already existing?

>      copy_and_move_file( 'Failure')

The function takes two arguments, neither of which is likely to be that 
string.

>      initialize_logger('rootdir/Failure')
>      logging.error("Either this file is empty or there are no lines")


>
> def move_to_success_folder_and_read():
>      filename, rootdir, lastmod, creation, filesize = fileinfo(file)
>      os.mkdir('Success')
>      copy_and_move_file(rootdir, 'Success') #file name
>      print("Success", file)
>      return file_len(file)
>
>
>
> if __name__ == '__main__':
>     main(dirlist)

So now you're passing a list of filenames to main()?  How then is it 
going to know when new files arrive?  You were originally going to tell 
it a directory name.  That's why I suggested that you call the parameter 
'path' or 'dirname'.



-- 
DaveA


From davea at davea.name  Fri Apr  3 08:12:38 2015
From: davea at davea.name (Dave Angel)
Date: Fri, 03 Apr 2015 08:12:38 -0400
Subject: New to Programming: Adding custom functions with ipynotify classes
In-Reply-To: <551e7b7a$0$13012$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
References: <3c02ea7e-b562-40c1-99cf-6e9784f37e7b@googlegroups.com>
 <551e7b7a$0$13012$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <551E83B6.2010604@davea.name>

On 04/03/2015 07:37 AM, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> On Fri, 3 Apr 2015 12:30 pm, Saran A wrote:
>
>> #This helper function returns the length of the file
>> def file_len(f):
>>      with open(f) as f:
>>          for i, l in enumerate(f):
>>              pass
>>              return i + 1
>
> Not as given it doesn't. It will raise an exception if the file cannot be
> opened, and it will return 1 for any file you can read.
>
> After you fix the incorrect indentation, the function is horribly
> inefficient. Instead, use this:
>
> import os
> os.stat(filename).st_size
>
>

No, he actually wants the number of records in the file.  So he still 
needs to read the whole file.

Naturally I figured that out from the phrase in the spec:
    "indicating the total number of records processed"
not from the comment in the code.


-- 
DaveA


From ahlusar.ahluwalia at gmail.com  Fri Apr  3 08:50:28 2015
From: ahlusar.ahluwalia at gmail.com (Saran A)
Date: Fri, 3 Apr 2015 05:50:28 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Strategy/ Advice for How to Best Attack this Problem?
In-Reply-To: <mailman.30.1428062701.12925.python-list@python.org>
References: <b803183b-6da5-4907-825d-9386b2bc2798@googlegroups.com>
 <87a8yvs34u.fsf@jester.gateway.pace.com>
 <mailman.323.1427681070.10327.python-list@python.org>
 <bc19cb8e-9e4f-48a7-a9f5-4b39db09a7ce@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.344.1427740538.10327.python-list@python.org>
 <0623f75c-bf93-4a0f-9d87-86986185cdc3@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.371.1427807964.10327.python-list@python.org>
 <fcd8bbbc-2d81-4797-aa0e-090683e72f3f@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.16.1427932335.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <ba29c06d-3cdc-412e-90a0-b1119a360570@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.23.1428009062.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <4d3a3336-5dc1-4fe8-8ef6-1616c6629d01@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.30.1428062701.12925.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <cb95baf5-7c53-4d3d-b388-e525b2d645cf@googlegroups.com>

On Friday, April 3, 2015 at 8:05:14 AM UTC-4, Dave Angel wrote:
> On 04/02/2015 07:43 PM, Saran A wrote:
>     <snip>
> >
> > I debugged and rewrote everything. Here is the full version. Feel free to tear this apart. The homework assignment is not due until tomorrow, so I am currently also experimenting with pyinotify as well. I do have questions regarding how to make this function compatible with the ProcessEvent Class. I will create another post for this.
> >
> > What would you advise in regards to renaming the inaptly named dirlist?
> 
> Asked and answered.  You called it path at one point.  dir_name would 
> also be good.  The point is that if you have a good name, you're less 
> likely to have unreasonable code processing that name.  For example,
> 
> >
> > # # # Without data to examine here, I can only guess based on this requirement's language that
> > # # fixed records are in the input.  If so, here's a slight revision to the helper functions that I wrote earlier which
> > # # takes the function fileinfo as a starting point and demonstrates calling a function from within a function.
> > # I tested this little sample on a small set of files created with MD5 checksums.  I wrote the Python in such a way as it
> > # would work with Python 2.x or 3.x (note the __future__ at the top).
> >
> > # # # There are so many wonderful ways of failure, so, from a development standpoint, I would probably spend a bit
> > # # more time trying to determine which failure(s) I would want to report to the user, and how (perhaps creating my own Exceptions)
> >
> > # # # The only other comments I would make are about safe-file handling.
> >
> > # # #   #1:  Question: After a user has created a file that has failed (in
> > # # #        processing),can the user create a file with the same name?
> > # # #        If so, then you will probably want to look at some sort
> > # # #        of file-naming strategy to avoid overwriting evidence of
> > # # #        earlier failures.
> >
> > # # # File naming is a tricky thing.  I referenced the tempfile module [1] and the Maildir naming scheme to see two different
> > # # types of solutions to the problem of choosing a unique filename.
> >> ## I am assuming that all of my files are going to be specified in unicode
> >
> > ## Utilized Spyder's Scientific Computing IDE to debug, check for indentation errors and test function suite
> >
> > from __future__ import print_function
> >
> > import os.path
> > import time
> > import logging
> >
> >
> > def initialize_logger(output_dir):
>             <snip>
> 
> I didn't ever bother to read the body of this function, since a simple
> 
>        print(mydata, file=mylog_file)
> 
> will suffice to add data to the chosen text file.  Why is it constantly 
> getting more complex, to solve a problem that was simple in the beginning?
> 
> >
> >
> > #Returns filename, rootdir and filesize
> >
> > def fileinfo(f):
> >      filename = os.path.basename(f)
> >      rootdir = os.path.dirname(f)
> >      filesize = os.path.getsize(f)
> >      return filename, rootdir, filesize
> >
> > #returns length of file
> > def file_len(f):
> >      with open(f) as f:
> >          for i, l in enumerate(f):
> >              pass
> >              return i + 1
> 
> Always returns 1 or None.  Check the indentation, and test to see what 
> it does for empty file, for a file with one line, and for a file with 
> more than one line.
> 
> 
> > #attempts to copy file and move file to it's directory
> > def copy_and_move_file(src, dest):
> 
> Which is it, are you trying to copy it, or move it?  Pick one and make a 
> good function name that shows your choice.
> 
> >      try:
> >          os.rename(src, dest)
> 
> Why are you using rename, when you're trying to move the file?  Take a 
> closer look at shutil, and see if it has a function that does it safer 
> than rename.  The function you need uses rename, when it'll work, and 
> does it other ways when rename will not.
> 
> >          # eg. src and dest are the same file
> >      except IOError as e:
> >          print('Error: %s' % e.strerror)
> 
> A try/except that doesn't try to correct the problem is not generally 
> useful.  Figure out what could be triggering the exception, and how 
> you're going to handle it.  If it cannot be handled, terminate the program.
> 
> For example, what if you don't have permissions to modify one of the 
> specified directories?  You can't get any useful work done, so you 
> should notify the user and exit.  An alternative is to produce 50 
> thousand reports of each file you've got, telling how it succeeded or 
> failed, over and over.
> 
> >
> > path = "."
> > dirlist = os.listdir(path)
> >
> > def main(dirlist):
> >      before = dict([(f, 0) for f in dirlist])
> 
> Since dirlist is a path, it's a string.  So you're looping through the 
> characters of the name of the path.  I still don't have a clue what the 
> dict is supposed to mean here.
> 
> >      while True:
> >          time.sleep(1) #time between update check
> 
> That loop goes forever, so the following code will never run.
> 
> >      after = dict([(f, None) for f in dirlist])
> 
> Once again, you're looping through the letters of the directory name. 
> Or if dirlist is really a list, and you're deciding that's what it 
> should be, then of course after will be identical to before.
> 
> >      added = [f for f in after if not f in before]
> >      if added:
> >          f = ''.join(added)
> >          print('Sucessfully added %s file - ready to validate') %()
> >          return validate_files(f)
> >      else:
> >          return move_to_failure_folder_and_return_error_file(f)
> >
> >
> >
> > def validate_files(f):
> 
> You completely changed the scope of this function.  Why does it still 
> have an s in its name?
> 
> >      creation = time.ctime(os.path.getctime(f))
> >      lastmod = time.ctime(os.path.getmtime(f))
> 
> What do timestamps have to do with anything?
> 
> >      if creation == lastmod and file_len(f) > 0:
> >          return move_to_success_folder_and_read(f)
> 
> How have you decided that the records are all the same length?
> 
> >      if file_len < 0 and creation != lastmod:
> 
> file_len cannot be safely compared to 0, it's a function.  If this were 
> Python 3, it would give you a runtime error for trying.  Even if you had 
> successfully called the function here, how is it possible for it to 
> return a negative value?
> 
> >          return move_to_success_folder_and_read(f)
> >      else:
> >          return move_to_failure_folder_and_return_error_file(f)
> >
> >
> > #Potential Additions/Substitutions
> >
> > def move_to_failure_folder_and_return_error_file():
> >      filename, rootdir, lastmod, creation, filesize = fileinfo(file)
> 
> fileinfo() returns 3 things, and you're stuffing them in 5 variables.
> 
> >      os.mkdir('Failure')
> 
> What do you do the second time through this function, when that 
> directory is already existing?
> 
> >      copy_and_move_file( 'Failure')
> 
> The function takes two arguments, neither of which is likely to be that 
> string.
> 
> >      initialize_logger('rootdir/Failure')
> >      logging.error("Either this file is empty or there are no lines")
> 
> 
> >
> > def move_to_success_folder_and_read():
> >      filename, rootdir, lastmod, creation, filesize = fileinfo(file)
> >      os.mkdir('Success')
> >      copy_and_move_file(rootdir, 'Success') #file name
> >      print("Success", file)
> >      return file_len(file)
> >
> >
> >
> > if __name__ == '__main__':
> >     main(dirlist)
> 
> So now you're passing a list of filenames to main()?  How then is it 
> going to know when new files arrive?  You were originally going to tell 
> it a directory name.  That's why I suggested that you call the parameter 
> 'path' or 'dirname'.
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> DaveA

@DaveA

I addressed most of the issues. I do admit that, as a novice, I feel beholden to the computer - hence the over-engineering.

As you correctly stated:

"
> What do you do the second time through this function, when that 
> directory is already existing?
> 
> >      copy_and_move_file( 'Failure')
> 
> The function takes two arguments, neither of which is likely to be that 
> string.
> 
> >      initialize_logger('rootdir/Failure')
> >      logging.error("Either this file is empty or there are no lines")"


How would I ensure that this s directory is made only once and every file that is passeed goes only to 'success' or 'failure'?


From rustompmody at gmail.com  Fri Apr  3 08:52:17 2015
From: rustompmody at gmail.com (Rustom Mody)
Date: Fri, 3 Apr 2015 05:52:17 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: r"\"" ??? (was A simple single line, triple-quoted comment)
In-Reply-To: <874mox3cs8.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
References: <f7b84d9d-c559-4711-ad63-1deea5f12c62@googlegroups.com>
 <med6mn$ag9$6@dont-email.me> <3533816.ZYnZ2OzjCs@PointedEars.de>
 <mailman.51.1426995416.10327.python-list@python.org>
 <3971951.908YQu3oQO@PointedEars.de>
 <mailman.52.1426997516.10327.python-list@python.org>
 <1504323.jUKfeKbQsP@PointedEars.de>
 <mailman.181.1427346636.10327.python-list@python.org>
 <2362875.FIK8ImHTJA@PointedEars.de>
 <mailman.211.1427394586.10327.python-list@python.org>
 <1823599.Pr2V0MPR6q@PointedEars.de>
 <mailman.223.1427412471.10327.python-list@python.org>
 <9781856.5cutuNVPEq@PointedEars.de>
 <mailman.300.1427615834.10327.python-list@python.org>
 <3894022.plrvF2nHWu@PointedEars.de>
 <mailman.362.1427786682.10327.python-list@python.org>
 <1905422.ubGH1B8UfE@PointedEars.de>
 <551e27c5$0$12904$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <mailman.27.1428040681.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <874mox3cs8.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
Message-ID: <55a914a0-5901-4be5-9a35-74435ec060d1@googlegroups.com>

On Friday, April 3, 2015 at 12:43:32 PM UTC+5:30, Marko Rauhamaa wrote:
>  3. Arguing about definitions is silly. Is 0 a natural number? Is 1 a
>     prime number?

Speaking about silliness of definitions, I was knocked out in class by this today:

>>> r"\""
'\\"'

Seeing the docs
https://docs.python.org/3.4/reference/lexical_analysis.html#string-and-bytes-literals
it talks of this explicitly

But I still find it strange -- I would have expected this kind of error behavior:

>>> "A string" "another incomplete
SyntaxError: EOL while scanning string literal
>>> 


From ahlusar.ahluwalia at gmail.com  Fri Apr  3 09:40:45 2015
From: ahlusar.ahluwalia at gmail.com (Saran A)
Date: Fri, 3 Apr 2015 06:40:45 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Strategy/ Advice for How to Best Attack this Problem?
In-Reply-To: <mailman.29.1428057967.12925.python-list@python.org>
References: <b803183b-6da5-4907-825d-9386b2bc2798@googlegroups.com>
 <87a8yvs34u.fsf@jester.gateway.pace.com>
 <mailman.323.1427681070.10327.python-list@python.org>
 <bc19cb8e-9e4f-48a7-a9f5-4b39db09a7ce@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.344.1427740538.10327.python-list@python.org>
 <0623f75c-bf93-4a0f-9d87-86986185cdc3@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.371.1427807964.10327.python-list@python.org>
 <fcd8bbbc-2d81-4797-aa0e-090683e72f3f@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.16.1427932335.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <ba29c06d-3cdc-412e-90a0-b1119a360570@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.23.1428009062.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <4d3a3336-5dc1-4fe8-8ef6-1616c6629d01@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.29.1428057967.12925.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <149a7683-15a0-4fa6-882f-4ff8982e9e0c@googlegroups.com>

On Friday, April 3, 2015 at 6:46:21 AM UTC-4, Peter Otten wrote:
> Saran A wrote:
> 
> > I debugged and rewrote everything. Here is the full version. Feel free to
> > tear this apart. The homework assignment is not due until tomorrow, so I
> > am currently also experimenting with pyinotify as well.
> 
> Saran, try to make a realistic assessment of your capability. Your 
> "debugged" code still has this gem
> 
> >    while True:
> >        time.sleep(1) #time between update check
> 
> and you are likely to miss your deadline anyway.
> 
> While the inotify approach may be the "right way" to attack this problem 
> from the point of view of an experienced developer like Chris as a newbie 
> you should stick to the simplest thing that can possibly work.
> 
> In a previous post I mentioned unit tests, but even an ad-hoc test in the 
> interactive interpreter will show that your file_len() function doesn't work
> 
> > #returns length of file
> > def file_len(f):
> >     with open(f) as f:
> >         for i, l in enumerate(f):
> >             pass
> >             return i + 1
> > 
> 
> $ python
> Python 2.7.6 (default, Mar 22 2014, 22:59:56) 
> [GCC 4.8.2] on linux2
> Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
> >>> #returns length of file
> ... def file_len(f):
> ...     with open(f) as f:
> ...         for i, l in enumerate(f):
> ...             pass
> ...             return i + 1
> ... 
> >>> with open("tmp.txt", "w") as f: f.write("abcde")
> ... 
> >>> file_len("tmp.txt")
> 1
> 
> It reports size 1 for every file. 
> 
> A simple unit test would look like this (assuming watchscript.py is the name 
> of the script to be tested):
> 
> import unittest
> 
> from watchscript import file_len
> 
> class FileLen(unittest.TestCase):
>     def test_five(self):
>         LEN = 5
>         FILENAME = "tmp.txt"
>         with open(FILENAME, "w") as f:
>             f.write("*" * LEN)
> 
>         self.assertEqual(file_len(FILENAME), 5)
>         
> if __name__ == "__main__":
>     unittest.main()
> 
> Typically for every tested function you add a new TestCase subclass and for 
> every test you perform for that function you add a test_...() method to that 
> class. The unittest.main() will collect these methods, run them and generate 
> a report. For the above example it will complain:
> 
> $ python test_watchscript.py 
> F
> ======================================================================
> FAIL: test_five (__main__.FileLen)
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "test_watchscript.py", line 12, in test_five
>     self.assertEqual(file_len(FILENAME), 5)
> AssertionError: 1 != 5
> 
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> Ran 1 test in 0.001s
> 
> FAILED (failures=1)
> 
> 
> The file_len() function is but an example of the many problems with your 
> code. There is no shortcut, you have to decide for every function what 
> exactly it should do and then verify that it actually does what it is meant 
> to do. Try to negotiate an extra week or two with your supervisor and then 
> start small:
> 
> On day one make a script that moves all files from one directory to another.
> Make sure that the source and destination directory are only stored in one 
> place in your script so that they can easily be replaced. Run the script 
> after every change and devise tests that demonstrate that it works 
> correctly.
> 
> On day two make a script that checks all files in a directory. Put the 
> checks into a function that takes a file path as its only parameter.
> Write a few correct and a few broken files and test that only the correct 
> ones are recognized as correct, and only the broken ones are flagged as 
> broken, and that all files in the directory are checked.
> 
> On day three make a script that combines the above and only moves the 
> correct files into another directory. Devise tests to verify that both 
> directories contain the expected files before and after your script is 
> executed.
> 
> On day four make a script that also moves the bad files into another 
> directory. Modify your tests from the previous day to check the contents of 
> all three directories.
> 
> On day five wrap your previous efforts in a loop that runs forever.
> I seems to work? You are not done. Write tests that demonstrate that it does 
> work. Try to think of the corner cases: what if there are no new files on 
> one iteration? What if there is a new file with the same name as a previous 
> one? Don't handwave, describe the reaction of your script in plain English 
> with all the gory details and then translate into Python.
> 
> Heureka!
> 
> Note that a "day" in the above outline can be 15 minutes or a week. You're 
> done when you're done. Also note that the amount of code you have written 
> bears no indication of how close you are to your goal. An experienced 
> programmer will end up with less code than you to fulfill the same spec. 
> That shouldn't bother you. On the other hand you should remove code that 
> doesn't contribute to your script's goal immediately. If you keep failed 
> attempts and side tracks your code will become harder and harder to 
> maintain, and that's the last thing you need when it's already hard to get 
> the necessary parts right. 
> 
> Good luck!

@Peter: Thank you emphasizing unit testing. I will be sure to be more mindful regarding this moving forward. FYI I addressed those "gems"   :) It's amazing what some sleep can do. 


From rosuav at gmail.com  Fri Apr  3 10:40:10 2015
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Sat, 4 Apr 2015 01:40:10 +1100
Subject: r"\"" ??? (was A simple single line, triple-quoted comment)
In-Reply-To: <55a914a0-5901-4be5-9a35-74435ec060d1@googlegroups.com>
References: <f7b84d9d-c559-4711-ad63-1deea5f12c62@googlegroups.com>
 <med6mn$ag9$6@dont-email.me> <3533816.ZYnZ2OzjCs@PointedEars.de>
 <mailman.51.1426995416.10327.python-list@python.org>
 <3971951.908YQu3oQO@PointedEars.de>
 <mailman.52.1426997516.10327.python-list@python.org>
 <1504323.jUKfeKbQsP@PointedEars.de>
 <mailman.181.1427346636.10327.python-list@python.org>
 <2362875.FIK8ImHTJA@PointedEars.de>
 <mailman.211.1427394586.10327.python-list@python.org>
 <1823599.Pr2V0MPR6q@PointedEars.de>
 <mailman.223.1427412471.10327.python-list@python.org>
 <9781856.5cutuNVPEq@PointedEars.de>
 <mailman.300.1427615834.10327.python-list@python.org>
 <3894022.plrvF2nHWu@PointedEars.de>
 <mailman.362.1427786682.10327.python-list@python.org>
 <1905422.ubGH1B8UfE@PointedEars.de>
 <551e27c5$0$12904$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <mailman.27.1428040681.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <874mox3cs8.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <55a914a0-5901-4be5-9a35-74435ec060d1@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmo_=RvsBkfD+tFiDJUk1sEjPY_27iUmFU2YH_3Vr0F0DQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Apr 3, 2015 at 11:52 PM, Rustom Mody <rustompmody at gmail.com> wrote:
> Speaking about silliness of definitions, I was knocked out in class by this today:
>
>>>> r"\""
> '\\"'
>
> Seeing the docs
> https://docs.python.org/3.4/reference/lexical_analysis.html#string-and-bytes-literals
> it talks of this explicitly
>
> But I still find it strange -- I would have expected this kind of error behavior:
>
>>>> "A string" "another incomplete
> SyntaxError: EOL while scanning string literal
>>>>

I'm sorry, I'm not understanding your confusion here. A raw string
literal allows escaped quote characters - is that the problem?

ChrisA


From rustompmody at gmail.com  Fri Apr  3 11:14:17 2015
From: rustompmody at gmail.com (Rustom Mody)
Date: Fri, 3 Apr 2015 08:14:17 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: r"\"" ??? (was A simple single line, triple-quoted comment)
In-Reply-To: <mailman.32.1428072017.12925.python-list@python.org>
References: <f7b84d9d-c559-4711-ad63-1deea5f12c62@googlegroups.com>
 <med6mn$ag9$6@dont-email.me> <3533816.ZYnZ2OzjCs@PointedEars.de>
 <mailman.51.1426995416.10327.python-list@python.org>
 <3971951.908YQu3oQO@PointedEars.de>
 <mailman.52.1426997516.10327.python-list@python.org>
 <1504323.jUKfeKbQsP@PointedEars.de>
 <mailman.181.1427346636.10327.python-list@python.org>
 <2362875.FIK8ImHTJA@PointedEars.de>
 <mailman.211.1427394586.10327.python-list@python.org>
 <1823599.Pr2V0MPR6q@PointedEars.de>
 <mailman.223.1427412471.10327.python-list@python.org>
 <9781856.5cutuNVPEq@PointedEars.de>
 <mailman.300.1427615834.10327.python-list@python.org>
 <3894022.plrvF2nHWu@PointedEars.de>
 <mailman.362.1427786682.10327.python-list@python.org>
 <1905422.ubGH1B8UfE@PointedEars.de>
 <551e27c5$0$12904$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <mailman.27.1428040681.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <874mox3cs8.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <55a914a0-5901-4be5-9a35-74435ec060d1@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.32.1428072017.12925.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <11da5626-e656-4bf4-b0c3-b092508daa56@googlegroups.com>

On Friday, April 3, 2015 at 8:10:54 PM UTC+5:30, Chris Angelico wrote:
> On Fri, Apr 3, 2015 at 11:52 PM, Rustom Mody  wrote:
> > Speaking about silliness of definitions, I was knocked out in class by this today:
> >
> >>>> r"\""
> > '\\"'
> >
> > Seeing the docs
> > https://docs.python.org/3.4/reference/lexical_analysis.html#string-and-bytes-literals
> > it talks of this explicitly
> >
> > But I still find it strange -- I would have expected this kind of error behavior:
> >
> >>>> "A string" "another incomplete
> > SyntaxError: EOL while scanning string literal
> >>>>
> 
> I'm sorry, I'm not understanding your confusion here. A raw string
> literal allows escaped quote characters - is that the problem?
> 
> ChrisA

Yeah...
I guess you could call it that. Raw? half-cooked? Or double-cooked?

# This looks properly raw
>>> r"\a"
'\\a'
>>> 
# This not so surprising
>>> r"\\"
'\\\\'
#  Thats 2 not 4 backslashes  - still ok
>>> len(r"\\")
2
# Until you try this
>>> r"\"
SyntaxError: EOL while scanning string literal
#... which seems to be 'correctable' by
>>> r"\""
'\\"'
>>> 

In short I see some behavior
What's the pattern or intention I dont get.

Does a backslash escape?? Seems to depend on the moonphase? <wink>

>>> print ("\n")


>>> print (r"\n")
\n
-------
? Worsened by eclipse tomorrow


From johnnybureddu at gmx.com  Fri Apr  3 11:25:31 2015
From: johnnybureddu at gmx.com (REVOLUCION!)
Date: Fri, 3 Apr 2015 08:25:31 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: -- redacted --
Message-ID: <8c349d11-cc30-4f85-a1ed-e8312d05f9bf@googlegroups.com>

-- redacted --


From ian.g.kelly at gmail.com  Fri Apr  3 11:25:57 2015
From: ian.g.kelly at gmail.com (Ian Kelly)
Date: Fri, 3 Apr 2015 09:25:57 -0600
Subject: A simple single line, triple-quoted comment is giving syntax
 error. Why?
In-Reply-To: <874mox3cs8.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
References: <f7b84d9d-c559-4711-ad63-1deea5f12c62@googlegroups.com>
 <med6mn$ag9$6@dont-email.me> <3533816.ZYnZ2OzjCs@PointedEars.de>
 <mailman.51.1426995416.10327.python-list@python.org>
 <3971951.908YQu3oQO@PointedEars.de>
 <mailman.52.1426997516.10327.python-list@python.org>
 <1504323.jUKfeKbQsP@PointedEars.de>
 <mailman.181.1427346636.10327.python-list@python.org>
 <2362875.FIK8ImHTJA@PointedEars.de>
 <mailman.211.1427394586.10327.python-list@python.org>
 <1823599.Pr2V0MPR6q@PointedEars.de>
 <mailman.223.1427412471.10327.python-list@python.org>
 <9781856.5cutuNVPEq@PointedEars.de>
 <mailman.300.1427615834.10327.python-list@python.org>
 <3894022.plrvF2nHWu@PointedEars.de>
 <mailman.362.1427786682.10327.python-list@python.org>
 <1905422.ubGH1B8UfE@PointedEars.de>
 <551e27c5$0$12904$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <mailman.27.1428040681.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <874mox3cs8.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
Message-ID: <CALwzid=WbtJsmMK7e0OQVu9G74gGUEthJm0MLuLm4pQvLacCvQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Apr 3, 2015 at 1:13 AM, Marko Rauhamaa <marko at pacujo.net> wrote:
>  2. The counterexample "abc" "def" *does* demonstrate that expressions
>     can at times follow each other immediately. It is a nice point even
>     if not all that consequential.
>
>     Somewhat analogously:
>      * ord  is an expression
>      * ("a")  is an expression
>      * ord("a")  is an expression

I'm tired of this also, so I'll make this response short. By analogy to English:

* "far" is an English adverb.
* "lands" is an English noun.
* "far lands" is an English noun phrase.

* Therefore, a noun phrase in English can consist of an adverb
immediately followed by a noun that is modified by the adverb

The fallacy here is that the "far" in "far lands" is used as an
adjective, not an adverb. I think that the same fallacy applies to the
Python expressions above. If you disagree, that's fine; I'll let it
go.


From joepureddu at yahoo.com  Fri Apr  3 11:38:46 2015
From: joepureddu at yahoo.com (Dieffe Diciotto)
Date: Fri, 3 Apr 2015 08:38:46 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: -- redacted --
In-Reply-To: <7d471aa5-b6ed-4800-9855-37319ba126ee@googlegroups.com>
References: <7d471aa5-b6ed-4800-9855-37319ba126ee@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <2b5250f8-f9f1-4ed4-8bf3-cf4cdfdfc0e9@googlegroups.com>

-- redacted --


From gabriele.silvagn at tiscali.it  Fri Apr  3 12:37:33 2015
From: gabriele.silvagn at tiscali.it (silvagni)
Date: Fri, 3 Apr 2015 18:37:33 +0200
Subject: Defamation
Message-ID: <580B262E-F8F4-48D8-8215-00B795D8B129@tiscali.it>

Please remove the page:
https://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/2014-September/691616.html

Thank You
Gabriele Silvagni


From denismfmcmahon at gmail.com  Fri Apr  3 12:39:06 2015
From: denismfmcmahon at gmail.com (Denis McMahon)
Date: Fri, 3 Apr 2015 16:39:06 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: New to Programming: Adding custom functions with ipynotify classes
References: <3c02ea7e-b562-40c1-99cf-6e9784f37e7b@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <mfmfna$bpl$1@dont-email.me>

On Thu, 02 Apr 2015 18:30:42 -0700, Saran A wrote:

> Here is the program that I am trying to write (with specs):

Saran, please stop prefacing every subject with "New to programming:" - 
it does not give an clue whatsoever as to what your post is about.

-- 
Denis McMahon, denismfmcmahon at gmail.com


From ahlusar.ahluwalia at gmail.com  Fri Apr  3 13:56:10 2015
From: ahlusar.ahluwalia at gmail.com (Saran A)
Date: Fri, 3 Apr 2015 10:56:10 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: New to Programming: Adding custom functions with ipynotify classes
In-Reply-To: <mfmfna$bpl$1@dont-email.me>
References: <3c02ea7e-b562-40c1-99cf-6e9784f37e7b@googlegroups.com>
 <mfmfna$bpl$1@dont-email.me>
Message-ID: <b1807d8d-9646-4f0b-ad77-7b3be73d21a7@googlegroups.com>

On Friday, April 3, 2015 at 12:40:11 PM UTC-4, Denis McMahon wrote:
> On Thu, 02 Apr 2015 18:30:42 -0700, Saran A wrote:
> 
> > Here is the program that I am trying to write (with specs):
> 
> Saran, please stop prefacing every subject with "New to programming:" - 
> it does not give an clue whatsoever as to what your post is about.
> 
> -- 
> Denis McMahon, denismfmcmahon at gmail.com

@Denis Thank you for your feedback


From davea at davea.name  Fri Apr  3 16:21:11 2015
From: davea at davea.name (Dave Angel)
Date: Fri, 03 Apr 2015 16:21:11 -0400
Subject: Strategy/ Advice for How to Best Attack this Problem?
In-Reply-To: <cb95baf5-7c53-4d3d-b388-e525b2d645cf@googlegroups.com>
References: <b803183b-6da5-4907-825d-9386b2bc2798@googlegroups.com>
 <87a8yvs34u.fsf@jester.gateway.pace.com>
 <mailman.323.1427681070.10327.python-list@python.org>
 <bc19cb8e-9e4f-48a7-a9f5-4b39db09a7ce@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.344.1427740538.10327.python-list@python.org>
 <0623f75c-bf93-4a0f-9d87-86986185cdc3@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.371.1427807964.10327.python-list@python.org>
 <fcd8bbbc-2d81-4797-aa0e-090683e72f3f@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.16.1427932335.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <ba29c06d-3cdc-412e-90a0-b1119a360570@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.23.1428009062.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <4d3a3336-5dc1-4fe8-8ef6-1616c6629d01@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.30.1428062701.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <cb95baf5-7c53-4d3d-b388-e525b2d645cf@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <551EF637.80801@davea.name>

On 04/03/2015 08:50 AM, Saran A wrote:
> On Friday, April 3, 2015 at 8:05:14 AM UTC-4, Dave Angel wrote:
>> On 04/02/2015 07:43 PM, Saran A wrote:
>
> I addressed most of the issues. I do admit that, as a novice, I feel beholden to the computer - hence the over-engineering.
>

Should be quite the opposite.  As a novice, you ought to be testing the 
heck out of your functions, worrying about whether they are properly 
named, properly commented, and properly tested.



 >>>       os.mkdir('Success')

> As you correctly stated:
>
> "
>> What do you do the second time through this function, when that
>> directory is already existing?
>>
>>>       copy_and_move_file( 'Failure')
>>
>> The function takes two arguments, neither of which is likely to be that
>> string.
>>
>>>       initialize_logger('rootdir/Failure')
>>>       logging.error("Either this file is empty or there are no lines")"
>
>
> How would I ensure that this s directory is made only once and every file that is passeed goes only to 'success' or 'failure'?
>

Well, you could use an if clause checking with os.exist().  If the 
directory already exists, don't call the mkdir function.  That may not 
be perfect, but it should suffice for an assignment at your level.

Alternatively, you could set a global variable equal to 'Failure' or 
whatever the full path to the directory is going to be, and do a mkdir 
at the beginning of main().   Likewise for success directory, and the 
output text file.  In that case, of course, instead of creating the 
directory, you open the file (for append, of course, so the next run of 
the program doesn't trash the file), and keep the file handle handy.


-- 
DaveA


From tjreedy at udel.edu  Fri Apr  3 17:58:18 2015
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Fri, 03 Apr 2015 17:58:18 -0400
Subject: Defamation
In-Reply-To: <580B262E-F8F4-48D8-8215-00B795D8B129@tiscali.it>
References: <580B262E-F8F4-48D8-8215-00B795D8B129@tiscali.it>
Message-ID: <551F0CFA.9050908@udel.edu>

On 4/3/2015 12:37 PM, silvagni wrote:
> Please remove the page:
> https://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/2014-September/691616.html
>
> Thank You
> Gabriele Silvagni

You can try sending mail to python-list-owner at python.org, but it will 
not do much good.  Even if a post could be removed from python.org, 
which I do not believe will be done, the list is mirrored at 
news.gmane.org, google groups, comp.lang.python (multiple news servers 
worldwide), and elsewhere I believe.  It is also indexed by search 
engines.  Sorry.

-- 
Terry Jan Reedy



From ben+python at benfinney.id.au  Fri Apr  3 18:18:25 2015
From: ben+python at benfinney.id.au (Ben Finney)
Date: Sat, 04 Apr 2015 09:18:25 +1100
Subject: Defamation
References: <580B262E-F8F4-48D8-8215-00B795D8B129@tiscali.it>
Message-ID: <857fts26vi.fsf@benfinney.id.au>

silvagni <gabriele.silvagn at tiscali.it> writes:

> Please remove the page:
> https://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/2014-September/691616.html
>
> Thank You
> Gabriele Silvagni

You have given no motivation for us to do so. A bald request to remove a
message is unlikely to be actioned.

Also, you are addressing the wrong people; we are participants, not
administrators, of this forum.

If you want to make a complaint to the administrators of this forum,
please read <URL:https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list>,
the end of the page shows how to contact the administrators.

-- 
 \       ?? whoever claims any right that he is unwilling to accord to |
  `\             his fellow-men is dishonest and infamous.? ?Robert G. |
_o__)           Ingersoll, _The Liberty of Man, Woman and Child_, 1877 |
Ben Finney



From breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk  Fri Apr  3 19:47:49 2015
From: breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk (Mark Lawrence)
Date: Sat, 04 Apr 2015 00:47:49 +0100
Subject: Defamation
In-Reply-To: <580B262E-F8F4-48D8-8215-00B795D8B129@tiscali.it>
References: <580B262E-F8F4-48D8-8215-00B795D8B129@tiscali.it>
Message-ID: <mfn8r8$f20$1@ger.gmane.org>

On 03/04/2015 17:37, silvagni wrote:
> Please remove the page:
> https://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/2014-September/691616.html
>
> Thank You
> Gabriele Silvagni
>

I mark all of these as offensive on google groups.

-- 
My fellow Pythonistas, ask not what our language can do for you, ask
what you can do for our language.

Mark Lawrence



From cs at zip.com.au  Fri Apr  3 21:31:34 2015
From: cs at zip.com.au (Cameron Simpson)
Date: Sat, 4 Apr 2015 12:31:34 +1100
Subject: Strategy/ Advice for How to Best Attack this Problem?
In-Reply-To: <551EF637.80801@davea.name>
References: <551EF637.80801@davea.name>
Message-ID: <20150404013134.GA11202@cskk.homeip.net>

On 03Apr2015 16:21, Dave Angel <davea at davea.name> wrote:
>On 04/03/2015 08:50 AM, Saran A wrote:
>>On Friday, April 3, 2015 at 8:05:14 AM UTC-4, Dave Angel wrote:
>>>On 04/02/2015 07:43 PM, Saran A wrote:
>>>>       os.mkdir('Success')
>
>>As you correctly stated:
>>>What do you do the second time through this function, when that
>>>directory is already existing?
>>>>      copy_and_move_file( 'Failure')
[...]
>>How would I ensure that this s directory is made only once and every file that is passeed goes only to 'success' or 'failure'?
>
>Well, you could use an if clause checking with os.exist().  If the 
>directory already exists, don't call the mkdir function.  That may not 
>be perfect, but it should suffice for an assignment at your level.

As a general remark that's slightly racy: checking, then doing. On all UNIX 
platforms, and probably Windows and others, mkdir is atomic: it works or it 
does not. So the reliable way tends to look like this:

  try:
    os.mkdir("blah")
  except FileExistsError:
    ... the directory exists, act accordingly ...
  except:
    ... something else went wrong, complain, abort, whatever
  else:
    ... directory successfully made ...

FileExistsError only came in in Python 3.3, for earlier Pythons catch OSError 
and check the exception's .errno against errno.EEXIST.

Cheers,
Cameron Simpson <cs at zip.com.au>

I am a Bear of Very Little Brain and long words Bother Me.
        - Winnie-the-Pooh


From rustompmody at gmail.com  Fri Apr  3 22:16:11 2015
From: rustompmody at gmail.com (Rustom Mody)
Date: Fri, 3 Apr 2015 19:16:11 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Strategy/ Advice for How to Best Attack this Problem?
In-Reply-To: <mailman.36.1428092476.12925.python-list@python.org>
References: <b803183b-6da5-4907-825d-9386b2bc2798@googlegroups.com>
 <87a8yvs34u.fsf@jester.gateway.pace.com>
 <mailman.323.1427681070.10327.python-list@python.org>
 <bc19cb8e-9e4f-48a7-a9f5-4b39db09a7ce@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.344.1427740538.10327.python-list@python.org>
 <0623f75c-bf93-4a0f-9d87-86986185cdc3@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.371.1427807964.10327.python-list@python.org>
 <fcd8bbbc-2d81-4797-aa0e-090683e72f3f@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.16.1427932335.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <ba29c06d-3cdc-412e-90a0-b1119a360570@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.23.1428009062.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <4d3a3336-5dc1-4fe8-8ef6-1616c6629d01@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.30.1428062701.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <cb95baf5-7c53-4d3d-b388-e525b2d645cf@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.36.1428092476.12925.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <421dcb67-5d2d-4666-a3af-b0b5c61f3a74@googlegroups.com>

On Saturday, April 4, 2015 at 1:52:20 AM UTC+5:30, Dave Angel wrote:
> On 04/03/2015 08:50 AM, Saran A wrote:
> > On Friday, April 3, 2015 at 8:05:14 AM UTC-4, Dave Angel wrote:
> >> On 04/02/2015 07:43 PM, Saran A wrote:
> >
> > I addressed most of the issues. I do admit that, as a novice, I feel beholden to the computer - hence the over-engineering.
> >
> 
> Should be quite the opposite.  As a novice, you ought to be testing the 
> heck out of your functions, worrying about whether they are properly 
> named, properly commented, and properly tested.

I think this is a culture problem.


We dont (typically) take python so seriously that we are 'beholden' (!!!) to 
python/computer/python's creator/each other out here/etc.

In other cultures (sometimes called 'bondage-and-discipline' languages
http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?BondageAndDisciplineLanguage
you are expected to write mountains of documentation before writing code.

The best we can make out, you are writing too much code, trying out (also
called hacking) too little.

Remember python is named after Monty Python.

If you hunt youtube for Monty python or other productions of John Cleese
like Fawlty Towers you'll get a picture of the spirit

Not directly related but recently posted on this list
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kAG39jKi0lI

In short, if you are not having fun you are not getting python.
If you are having fun, mucking around is not taboo...
Also called using the interpreter interactively


From pa at noemail.invalid  Fri Apr  3 23:40:48 2015
From: pa at noemail.invalid (Paul Arrington)
Date: Sat, 4 Apr 2015 03:40:48 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Defamation
References: <mailman.35.1428078725.12925.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <pan.2015.04.04.03.40.48@noemail.invalid>

On Fri, 03 Apr 2015 18:37:33 +0200, silvagni wrote:

> Please remove the page:
> https://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/2014-September/691616.html
> 
> Thank You Gabriele Silvagni

This is a primarily a "Usenet" group, (Google that term), and is hosted 
by a distributed network of servers, and the python.org mail-server is 
merely one mirror of that network. Posts like that one _are_ annoying but 
are impossible to remove from the wider network.

You _could_ try tackling the point-of-injection, which happens to be 
Google-Groups (which is another Usenet mirror), so Google bear prime 
responsibility for neglecting to filter the message.  Good luck with 
that, though, because Google are very difficult to even contact.



From zljubisicmob at gmail.com  Sat Apr  4 09:07:12 2015
From: zljubisicmob at gmail.com (zljubisicmob at gmail.com)
Date: Sat, 4 Apr 2015 06:07:12 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: How to set request module logging to certain level (python 3.4.2)
Message-ID: <26c26c73-c1d1-48ae-8a5e-1f1e20b4df2b@googlegroups.com>

Hi,

if I execute:

import logging, requests
logging.basicConfig(filename="obrisi.log", level=10, format='%(asctime)s %(levelname)s %(message)s',datefmt='%d.%m.%Y %H:%M:%S')
logging.getLogger('requests').setLevel(logging.ERROR)
url = 'http://radio.hrt.hr/prvi-program/arhiva/povijest-cetvrtkom/126/'
wpage = requests.get(url)

the obrisi.log has the following contents:

04.04.2015 13:40:23 INFO Starting new HTTP connection (1): radio.hrt.hr
04.04.2015 13:40:23 DEBUG "GET /prvi-program/arhiva/povijest-cetvrtkom/126/ HTTP/1.1" 200 None

>From requests module, I would like to log from error level above.

How to achieve that (raspberry pi 2, osmc, python 3.4.2?

Regards.


From joe.farro at gmail.com  Sat Apr  4 11:45:53 2015
From: joe.farro at gmail.com (Joe Farro)
Date: Sat, 4 Apr 2015 08:45:53 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: beautifulSoup 4.1
In-Reply-To: <b6085291-5a81-47b5-a4cd-7a6a85a24e21@googlegroups.com>
References: <b6085291-5a81-47b5-a4cd-7a6a85a24e21@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <2ef785df-9ea8-4a41-9592-841d346c8857@googlegroups.com>

Could use zip:

tds = iter(soup('td'))
for abbr, defn in zip(tds, tds):
 	print abbr.get_text(), defn.get_text()


From me.pankaj786 at gmail.com  Sat Apr  4 11:56:22 2015
From: me.pankaj786 at gmail.com (pankaj sharma)
Date: Sat, 4 Apr 2015 08:56:22 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: OOP for System Administrator
Message-ID: <f91e3a67-653b-45e6-9222-4bfa535d7d09@googlegroups.com>

Hi,

I'm a Linux system administrator and my work requires me to write bash scripts (100-500 lines) for process monitoring, server health check and automate some manual processes. Now I've started to learn python as I want to write scripts in python rather than bash or any shell.

My questions is Do I need to learn Object oriented Python in order to be good at python scripting. I know basics of OOP but personally didn't like it much.

Thanks
Pankaj


From ian.g.kelly at gmail.com  Sat Apr  4 11:57:58 2015
From: ian.g.kelly at gmail.com (Ian Kelly)
Date: Sat, 4 Apr 2015 09:57:58 -0600
Subject: How to set request module logging to certain level (python 3.4.2)
In-Reply-To: <uuvvha9nadkmrnpkor7oqd0u35gj18lt68@4ax.com>
References: <26c26c73-c1d1-48ae-8a5e-1f1e20b4df2b@googlegroups.com>
 <uuvvha9nadkmrnpkor7oqd0u35gj18lt68@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <CALwzidk7XR71S3xZamJyOYBNYQ8P1msp5igOJkd4sKRUaET+yQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Sat, Apr 4, 2015 at 9:21 AM, Dennis Lee Bieber <wlfraed at ix.netcom.com> wrote:
> On Sat, 4 Apr 2015 06:07:12 -0700 (PDT), zljubisicmob at gmail.com declaimed
> the following:
> >From requests module, I would like to log from error level above.
>>
>
>         Unless the requests module documents that is uses a logger named
> "requests", you are likely stuck with having to adjust the level of the
> root (unnamed) logger.

You can include "%(name)s" in the format string to see the name of the
logger that was used.

> http://docs.python-requests.org/en/latest/api/?highlight=log
>
> implies the correct name to use for the logger is
> "requests.packages.urllib3".

If that's the case, then configuring the "requests" logger should
work, since it's a hierarchical ancestor of
"requests.packages.urllib3".


From zljubisicmob at gmail.com  Sat Apr  4 14:29:53 2015
From: zljubisicmob at gmail.com (zljubisicmob at gmail.com)
Date: Sat, 4 Apr 2015 11:29:53 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: How to set request module logging to certain level (python 3.4.2)
In-Reply-To: <mailman.42.1428160919.12925.python-list@python.org>
References: <26c26c73-c1d1-48ae-8a5e-1f1e20b4df2b@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.42.1428160919.12925.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <2b7c488b-e144-41b4-a679-ed6d9f07ce67@googlegroups.com>

On Saturday, April 4, 2015 at 5:23:02 PM UTC+2, Dennis Lee Bieber wrote:

> implies the correct name to use for the logger is
> "requests.packages.urllib3".

I have changed a script log_test.py. Now it looks like this:

#!/usr/bin/python3

import logging, requests
logging.basicConfig(filename="obrisi.log", level=10, format='%(asctime)s %(levelname)s %(message)s',datefmt='%d.%m.%Y %H:%M:%S')

logging.getLogger('requests.packages.urllib3').setLevel(logging.ERROR)

url = 'http://radio.hrt.hr/prvi-program/arhiva/povijest-cetvrtkom/126/'

def abc():
	wpage = requests.get(url)
	
	
wpage = requests.get(url)
abc()

from linux shell I am running it as:

rm obrisi.log; ./log_test.py; cat obrisi.log

the output is:

04.04.2015 20:29:05 INFO Starting new HTTP connection (1): radio.hrt.hr
04.04.2015 20:29:05 DEBUG "GET /prvi-program/arhiva/povijest-cetvrtkom/126/ HTTP/1.1" 200 None
04.04.2015 20:29:05 INFO Starting new HTTP connection (1): radio.hrt.hr
04.04.2015 20:29:05 DEBUG "GET /prvi-program/arhiva/povijest-cetvrtkom/126/ HTTP/1.1" 200 None
o

As you can see, it still doesn't work.
I really don't get it. I am confused. :(

Regards.


From torriem at gmail.com  Sat Apr  4 15:04:27 2015
From: torriem at gmail.com (Michael Torrie)
Date: Sat, 04 Apr 2015 13:04:27 -0600
Subject: OOP for System Administrator
In-Reply-To: <f91e3a67-653b-45e6-9222-4bfa535d7d09@googlegroups.com>
References: <f91e3a67-653b-45e6-9222-4bfa535d7d09@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <552035BB.3070200@gmail.com>

On 04/04/2015 09:56 AM, pankaj sharma wrote:
> I'm a Linux system administrator and my work requires me to write
> bash scripts (100-500 lines) for process monitoring, server health
> check and automate some manual processes. Now I've started to learn
> python as I want to write scripts in python rather than bash or any
> shell.
> 
> My questions is Do I need to learn Object oriented Python in order to
> be good at python scripting. I know basics of OOP but personally
> didn't like it much.

Let me guess.  Your exposure to OOP comes from Java or C#?  Python's use
of OOP is very natural and powerful.  But you don't have to use OO
design in your programs.  So no you don't need to learn oo Python, just
learn and use Python, period.  As needed you can benefit from the strong
OO capabilities of Python without having to use that paradigm for your
own programs.

>From a system programmer's point of view, other features of Python, like
generators are going to give you far more utility.  I recommend you take
a look at this presentation for how Python can fit in your work:

http://www.dabeaz.com/generators/

Note that while Python is a scripting language, it's not a shell
language. To interface with other processes, you'll have to use popen()
and connect to the standard pipes (in, out, err). It's not like bash
where any reference to a program in the path is executed and piped
automatically.  A long time  ago I wrote a little wrapper around popen()
to make it easier and faster to interact with unix commands.


From zljubisicmob at gmail.com  Sat Apr  4 15:38:49 2015
From: zljubisicmob at gmail.com (zljubisicmob at gmail.com)
Date: Sat, 4 Apr 2015 12:38:49 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: How to set request module logging to certain level (python 3.4.2)
In-Reply-To: <2b7c488b-e144-41b4-a679-ed6d9f07ce67@googlegroups.com>
References: <26c26c73-c1d1-48ae-8a5e-1f1e20b4df2b@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.42.1428160919.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <2b7c488b-e144-41b4-a679-ed6d9f07ce67@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <260d47af-7926-4067-922d-674ba50ec03a@googlegroups.com>

Looks like I have found (with your help) a solution.
Instead of:

logging.getLogger('requests.packages.urllib3').setLevel(logging.ERROR) 

the line should look like:

logging.getLogger('urllib3').setLevel(logging.ERROR) 

After changing the line, everything is OK.

Thank you all.

Regards.


From emile at fenx.com  Sat Apr  4 16:27:26 2015
From: emile at fenx.com (Emile van Sebille)
Date: Sat, 04 Apr 2015 13:27:26 -0700
Subject: OOP for System Administrator
In-Reply-To: <f91e3a67-653b-45e6-9222-4bfa535d7d09@googlegroups.com>
References: <f91e3a67-653b-45e6-9222-4bfa535d7d09@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <mfphh6$ah5$1@ger.gmane.org>

On 4/4/2015 8:56 AM, pankaj sharma wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I'm a Linux system administrator and my work requires me to write bash scripts (100-500 lines) for process monitoring, server health check and automate some manual processes. Now I've started to learn python as I want to write scripts in python rather than bash or any shell.
>
> My questions is Do I need to learn Object oriented Python in order to be good at python scripting. I know basics of OOP but personally didn't like it much.

Michael already responded to the oo question.  You might also find this 
helpful:

http://docs.linuxtone.org/ebooks/Python/OReilly.Python.for.Unix.and.Linux.System.Administration.Sep.2008.pdf

Emile




From damien.p.george at gmail.com  Sat Apr  4 19:43:58 2015
From: damien.p.george at gmail.com (Damien George)
Date: Sun, 5 Apr 2015 00:43:58 +0100
Subject: MicroPython 1.4.1 released
Message-ID: <CANw+MznxzdSLK_86P5XbFn5x+_gBKueSVn5hvYxKvQ_rqn6xcw@mail.gmail.com>

Hello everyone,

We are pleased to announce the release of MicroPython version 1.4.1!

MicroPython is an implementation of Python 3.4 which is optimised for
systems with minimal resources, including microcontrollers.

Since our last announcement, this release is both more "micro" and
more "Python".

Code size of the bare Thumb2 architecture version has dropped to under
71k (without reduction of features), the RAM usage has been further
optimised, and support for 16-bit microcontrollers has been proven via
the port to a PIC microcontroller with just 8k RAM.

On the Python side of things, there is now a "stackless" mode with
both strict and non-strict behaviour.  Strict will always use the heap
to allocate a call frame, where non-strict will fall back to the C
stack if the heap is exhausted.  More special methods have been
implemented, along with proper descriptors, OrderedDict class, basic
frozen module support and the ability to override builtins, among
other things.

The test suite has grown and coverage of the code is now beyond 91%.

Many other features have been implemented for the ports to various
microcontroller platforms, bugs have been fixed and the docs have been
improved.  A full change log is available at
https://micropython.org/resources/micropython-ChangeLog.txt .

For more information about the project please visit
http://micropython.org/
https://github.com/micropython/micropython

Best regards,
Damien George.


From PointedEars at web.de  Sat Apr  4 19:51:00 2015
From: PointedEars at web.de (Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn)
Date: Sun, 05 Apr 2015 01:51 +0200
Subject: Python regex exercise
References: <mailman.370.1427806991.10327.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <2633598.mOnDxdZfPB@PointedEars.de>

Robert Clove wrote:

> Do anyone have good links to python regex or other python problems for
> beginners but with solution.
> 
> Please mail me.

<http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html#writewell>
<http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html#prune>
<http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html#noprivate>

-- 
PointedEars

Twitter: @PointedEars2
Please do not cc me. / Bitte keine Kopien per E-Mail.


From vincent at vincentdavis.net  Sat Apr  4 20:21:12 2015
From: vincent at vincentdavis.net (Vincent Davis)
Date: Sat, 4 Apr 2015 18:21:12 -0600
Subject: Python regex exercise
In-Reply-To: <2633598.mOnDxdZfPB@PointedEars.de>
References: <mailman.370.1427806991.10327.python-list@python.org>
 <2633598.mOnDxdZfPB@PointedEars.de>
Message-ID: <CALyJZZUQMK+FWVZbLR-Gs5qx1C6Ae5wx09GiM6B4wf==TN7GoA@mail.gmail.com>

On Sat, Apr 4, 2015 at 5:51 PM, Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <
PointedEars at web.de> wrote:

> > Do anyone have good links to python regex or other python problems for
> > beginners but with solution.
> >
> > Please mail me.
>

?I recently found? this
https://regex101.com/#python


Vincent Davis
720-301-3003
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/attachments/20150404/6faa432e/attachment.html>

From flebber.crue at gmail.com  Sat Apr  4 20:46:34 2015
From: flebber.crue at gmail.com (Sayth)
Date: Sat, 4 Apr 2015 17:46:34 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: emacs for python web development
Message-ID: <9352484c-b2ad-4d67-9282-50d00bfa0003@googlegroups.com>

Has anyone got a good configuration or advice for setting up a good python web development environment in emacs?

Sayth


From ben+python at benfinney.id.au  Sun Apr  5 01:36:29 2015
From: ben+python at benfinney.id.au (Ben Finney)
Date: Sun, 05 Apr 2015 15:36:29 +1000
Subject: emacs for python web development
References: <9352484c-b2ad-4d67-9282-50d00bfa0003@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <85zj6nyw4i.fsf@benfinney.id.au>

Sayth <flebber.crue at gmail.com> writes:

> Has anyone got a good configuration or advice for setting up a good
> python web development environment in emacs?

You can start at the Python Wiki page on Emacs as an editor
<URL:https://wiki.python.org/moin/EmacsEditor>.

-- 
 \          ?? a Microsoft Certified System Engineer is to information |
  `\     technology as a McDonalds Certified Food Specialist is to the |
_o__)                               culinary arts.? ?Michael Bacarella |
Ben Finney



From flebber.crue at gmail.com  Sun Apr  5 02:00:51 2015
From: flebber.crue at gmail.com (Sayth)
Date: Sat, 4 Apr 2015 23:00:51 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: emacs for python web development
In-Reply-To: <mailman.48.1428212178.12925.python-list@python.org>
References: <9352484c-b2ad-4d67-9282-50d00bfa0003@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.48.1428212178.12925.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <5b7674a0-2df6-4551-9fc5-5fb5f62eb39e@googlegroups.com>

Thanks, got the python bit down is just the Web for flask and django. Getting the templates and snippets to work in a good flow is where I am looking for advice. 

Cheers

Sayth


From me.pankaj786 at gmail.com  Sun Apr  5 04:36:31 2015
From: me.pankaj786 at gmail.com (pankaj sharma)
Date: Sun, 5 Apr 2015 01:36:31 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: OOP for System Administrator
In-Reply-To: <f91e3a67-653b-45e6-9222-4bfa535d7d09@googlegroups.com>
References: <f91e3a67-653b-45e6-9222-4bfa535d7d09@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <9d76022a-af8c-427f-91fc-cb1315fae56a@googlegroups.com>

Yes Michael, your guess is right. I once was a Java Programmer :)

Thanks for the advice and link.

Regards,


From peter at peterrowley.com  Sun Apr  5 13:28:51 2015
From: peter at peterrowley.com (Peter Rowley)
Date: Sun, 05 Apr 2015 13:28:51 -0400
Subject: Trying to hire or grow a Python developer for a 2 year contract
Message-ID: <c920fff472d3235620b2ef755d40e896@peterrowley.com>

 

Hi, 

I'm at York University in Toronto, Canada. We have a large
Python-and-Oracle web application written with Pyramids and YUI that we
use to manage the staffing of courses at York and are looking for an
intermediate or senior developer for a 2 year contract to work on
extensions to the application. If you are interested or know of someone
who would be, please e-mail me at prowley at yorku.ca. The salary is
approximately $75,000 a year and benefits are excellent. 

We have been looking for someone for this position for a while and are
starting to think about hiring someone who has good programming skills
but not necessarily Python. To that end, if you're a Python developer or
hire them, I'd be interested in your opinion of which common programming
languages that people might know would enable learning Python? I'm
guessing PHP for the dynamic language concepts and Java for the
structure, but that's not based on much evidence. 

Thanks in advance 

Peter Rowley, Director of Applications and Integration 

University Information Technology, York University, Toronto 

prowley at yorku.ca 

 
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/attachments/20150405/c3bdb962/attachment.html>

From izbyshev at ispras.ru  Sun Apr  5 13:45:07 2015
From: izbyshev at ispras.ru (Alexey Izbyshev)
Date: Sun, 05 Apr 2015 20:45:07 +0300
Subject: Permission denied when opening a file that was created concurrently
 by os.rename (Windows)
Message-ID: <51cbd8a4eb7040f60aa74d127803b441@ispras.ru>

Hello!

I've hit a strange problem that I reduced to the following test case:
* Run several python processes in parallel that spin in the following 
loop:
while True:
   if os.path.isfile(fname):
     with open(fname, 'rb') as f:
       f.read()
     break
* Then, run another process that creates a temporary file and then 
renames it to the name than other processes are expecting
* Now, some of the reading processes occasionally fail with "Permission 
denied" OSError

I was able to reproduce it on two Windows 7 64-bit machines. It seems 
when the file appears on the filesystem it is still unavailable to 
reading, but I have no idea how it can happen. Both source and 
destination files are in the same directory, and the destination doesn't 
exist before calling os.rename. Everything I could find indicates that 
os.rename should be atomic under this conditions even on Windows, so 
nobody should be able to observe the destination in unaccessible state.

I know that I can workaround this problem by removing useless 
os.path.isfile() check and wrapping open() with try-except, but I'd like 
to know the root cause of the problem. Please share you thoughts.

The test case is attached, the main file is test.bat. Python is 
expected to be in PATH. Stderr of readers is redirected to *.log. You 
may need to run several times to hit the issue.

Alexey Izbyshev,
research assistant,
ISP RAS



From rosuav at gmail.com  Sun Apr  5 13:55:24 2015
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Mon, 6 Apr 2015 03:55:24 +1000
Subject: Permission denied when opening a file that was created
 concurrently by os.rename (Windows)
In-Reply-To: <51cbd8a4eb7040f60aa74d127803b441@ispras.ru>
References: <51cbd8a4eb7040f60aa74d127803b441@ispras.ru>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmrsYoMRQ4BZeQif5S2Rhaoa8n3u6omNSGYz+z07=TGq6w@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Apr 6, 2015 at 3:45 AM, Alexey Izbyshev <izbyshev at ispras.ru> wrote:
> The test case is attached, the main file is test.bat. Python is expected to
> be in PATH. Stderr of readers is redirected to *.log. You may need to run
> several times to hit the issue.

You have an interesting-looking problem, but the attachment didn't
arrive. Is it short enough to include in-line as text in your email?

ChrisA


From izbyshev at ispras.ru  Sun Apr  5 14:08:52 2015
From: izbyshev at ispras.ru (Alexey Izbyshev)
Date: Sun, 05 Apr 2015 21:08:52 +0300
Subject: Permission denied when opening a file that was created
 concurrently by os.rename (Windows)
In-Reply-To: <51cbd8a4eb7040f60aa74d127803b441@ispras.ru>
References: <51cbd8a4eb7040f60aa74d127803b441@ispras.ru>
Message-ID: <ceb7e9919be4d84937b822c2f6e669aa@ispras.ru>

On 2015-04-05 20:45, Alexey Izbyshev wrote:
> Hello!
> 
> I've hit a strange problem that I reduced to the following test case:
> * Run several python processes in parallel that spin in the following 
> loop:
> while True:
>   if os.path.isfile(fname):
>     with open(fname, 'rb') as f:
>       f.read()
>     break
> * Then, run another process that creates a temporary file and then
> renames it to the name than other processes are expecting
> * Now, some of the reading processes occasionally fail with
> "Permission denied" OSError
> 
> I was able to reproduce it on two Windows 7 64-bit machines. It seems
> when the file appears on the filesystem it is still unavailable to
> reading, but I have no idea how it can happen. Both source and
> destination files are in the same directory, and the destination
> doesn't exist before calling os.rename. Everything I could find
> indicates that os.rename should be atomic under this conditions even
> on Windows, so nobody should be able to observe the destination in
> unaccessible state.
> 
> I know that I can workaround this problem by removing useless
> os.path.isfile() check and wrapping open() with try-except, but I'd
> like to know the root cause of the problem. Please share you thoughts.
> 
> The test case is attached, the main file is test.bat. Python is
> expected to be in PATH. Stderr of readers is redirected to *.log. You
> may need to run several times to hit the issue.
> 
> Alexey Izbyshev,
> research assistant,
> ISP RAS
The attachment was rejected because of .bat files, so here is the code:
test.bat:
======================
@echo off
del test.txt
del *.log

for /L %%i in (1, 1, 10) do (
   start /b run-with-log.bat %%i
)

pythonw test-rename.py
======================
run-with-log.bat:
======================
@echo off
pythonw test-read.py %1 >nul 2>%1.log
exit
======================
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: test.zip
Type: application/zip
Size: 501 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/attachments/20150405/3d0cd807/attachment.zip>

From davea at davea.name  Sun Apr  5 14:11:23 2015
From: davea at davea.name (Dave Angel)
Date: Sun, 05 Apr 2015 14:11:23 -0400
Subject: Permission denied when opening a file that was created
 concurrently by os.rename (Windows)
In-Reply-To: <51cbd8a4eb7040f60aa74d127803b441@ispras.ru>
References: <51cbd8a4eb7040f60aa74d127803b441@ispras.ru>
Message-ID: <55217ACB.8020301@davea.name>

On 04/05/2015 01:45 PM, Alexey Izbyshev wrote:
> Hello!
>
> I've hit a strange problem that I reduced to the following test case:
> * Run several python processes in parallel that spin in the following loop:
> while True:
>    if os.path.isfile(fname):
>      with open(fname, 'rb') as f:
>        f.read()
>      break
> * Then, run another process that creates a temporary file and then
> renames it to the name than other processes are expecting
> * Now, some of the reading processes occasionally fail with "Permission
> denied" OSError
>
> I was able to reproduce it on two Windows 7 64-bit machines. It seems
> when the file appears on the filesystem it is still unavailable to
> reading, but I have no idea how it can happen. Both source and
> destination files are in the same directory, and the destination doesn't
> exist before calling os.rename. Everything I could find indicates that
> os.rename should be atomic under this conditions even on Windows, so
> nobody should be able to observe the destination in unaccessible state.
>
> I know that I can workaround this problem by removing useless
> os.path.isfile() check and wrapping open() with try-except, but I'd like
> to know the root cause of the problem. Please share you thoughts.
>
> The test case is attached, the main file is test.bat. Python is expected
> to be in PATH. Stderr of readers is redirected to *.log. You may need to
> run several times to hit the issue.
>
> Alexey Izbyshev,
> research assistant,
> ISP RAS
>

The attachment is missing;  please just include it inline, after 
reducing it to a reasonably minimal sample.

My guess is that the process that does the os.rename is not closing the 
original file before renaming it.  So even though the rename is atomic, 
the file is still locked by the first process.



-- 
DaveA


From ellisd23 at gmail.com  Sun Apr  5 15:20:48 2015
From: ellisd23 at gmail.com (Daniel Ellis)
Date: Sun, 5 Apr 2015 12:20:48 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Help with pipes, buffering and pseudoterminals
Message-ID: <c9c407e4-4914-4f5d-8ff3-ae1ac083cb82@googlegroups.com>

I have a small little tool I'd like to make.  It essentially takes piped input, modifies the text in some way, and immediately prints the output.  The problem I'm having is that any output I pipe to the program seems to be buffered, removing the desired effect.

>From what I understand, I need to somehow have the input be retrieved via a pseudoterminal.  The problem that I'm having is that most examples on the internet seem to assume I would like to launch a program in a forked pty process, which doesn't really fit my use case.

I've tried a number of things, but I seem to be unable to get even a basic understanding of how to use the pty module.  Here's a piece of code I whipped up just to try to get a feel for what is going on when I use pty.fork, but it doesn't seem to do what I think it should:

    import pty 
    import os
    import sys 

    pid, fd = pty.fork()

    print pid, fd
    sys.stdout.flush()

    os.read(fd, 1024)

This only seems to print from the parent process.  I read that I need to do the os.read call for the fork to happen.  I've also tried printing *after* the os.read call.  

I realize this does very little to solve my overall goal, but I figure understanding what is going on is probably a worthwhile first step.


From garabik-news-2005-05 at kassiopeia.juls.savba.sk  Sun Apr  5 15:49:55 2015
From: garabik-news-2005-05 at kassiopeia.juls.savba.sk (garabik-news-2005-05 at kassiopeia.juls.savba.sk)
Date: Sun, 5 Apr 2015 19:49:55 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: ANN: polynice 0.7 - a nice(1) like utility for throttling processes
Message-ID: <mailman.55.1428270067.12925.python-announce-list@python.org>

polynice is a nice(1)-like command line utility for unix systems to
throttle long running processes beyond what can be achieved by nice(1),
by repeatedly suspending and resuming the process.

It is written for python3, though there is some python2.7 compatibility.

Author:
Radovan Garab?k

URL:
http://kassiopeia.juls.savba.sk/~garabik/software/polynice.html

License:
GPL (v2)

Notable changes:
* This is the first public release under the name `polynice' - the
  utility has been renamed from `verynice' due to name clash with an
  existing software.
* polynice can now emulate timeout(1) - terminate process after given
  time has passed
* MacOS X improvements
* better python2 compatiblity

-- 
 -----------------------------------------------------------
| Radovan Garab?k http://kassiopeia.juls.savba.sk/~garabik/ |
| __..--^^^--..__    garabik @ kassiopeia.juls.savba.sk     |
 -----------------------------------------------------------
Antivirus alert: file .signature infected by signature virus.
Hi! I'm a signature virus! Copy me into your signature file to help me spread!


From tjreedy at udel.edu  Sun Apr  5 16:10:06 2015
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Sun, 05 Apr 2015 16:10:06 -0400
Subject: Permission denied when opening a file that was created
 concurrently by os.rename (Windows)
In-Reply-To: <51cbd8a4eb7040f60aa74d127803b441@ispras.ru>
References: <51cbd8a4eb7040f60aa74d127803b441@ispras.ru>
Message-ID: <mfs4rr$t7i$1@ger.gmane.org>

On 4/5/2015 1:45 PM, Alexey Izbyshev wrote:
> Hello!
>
> I've hit a strange problem that I reduced to the following test case:
> * Run several python processes in parallel that spin in the following loop:

> while True:
>    if os.path.isfile(fname):
>      with open(fname, 'rb') as f:
>        f.read()
>      break

Besides anything else, I would consider adding a minimal sleep in the loop.

> * Then, run another process that creates a temporary file and then
> renames it to the name than other processes are expecting
> * Now, some of the reading processes occasionally fail with "Permission
> denied" OSError

-- 
Terry Jan Reedy



From jenesuispasdave at gmail.com  Sun Apr  5 16:38:11 2015
From: jenesuispasdave at gmail.com (Dave Hein)
Date: Sun, 5 Apr 2015 13:38:11 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Is it possible to deliver different source distributions for
 different Python versions?
Message-ID: <9826e06e-be2f-4e3f-87b2-89e933a0d003@googlegroups.com>

I would like to distribute a python package with different code for
Python 2.* than for Python 3.*. (Mostly this is because of different
unicode string handling).

There is nothing in to setuptools or PyPi that directly supports
this scenario.

But perhaps there could be some script run at install time that moves
the correct source code to the right location? In other works, if I
included both source code versions in the distribution (in a src2 and
a src3 subdirectory) then a function invoked at install time could
detect the python version and copy the appropriate source code to the
right location.

Is that at all possible? Is there some install time hook that lets me
supply custom installation code?

--
Dave Hein


From nobody at nowhere.invalid  Sun Apr  5 20:06:46 2015
From: nobody at nowhere.invalid (Nobody)
Date: Mon, 06 Apr 2015 01:06:46 +0100
Subject: Help with pipes, buffering and pseudoterminals
References: <c9c407e4-4914-4f5d-8ff3-ae1ac083cb82@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <pan.2015.04.06.00.06.45.468000@nowhere.invalid>

On Sun, 05 Apr 2015 12:20:48 -0700, Daniel Ellis wrote:

> This only seems to print from the parent process.  I read that I need to
> do the os.read call for the fork to happen.  I've also tried printing
> *after* the os.read call.

The child process has its std{in,out,err} attached to the newly-created
pty, so that's where the output from the child's "print" goes.

You'll see that output if the parent prints the string returned from the
os.read() call.



From cs at zip.com.au  Sun Apr  5 20:11:09 2015
From: cs at zip.com.au (Cameron Simpson)
Date: Mon, 6 Apr 2015 10:11:09 +1000
Subject: Help with pipes, buffering and pseudoterminals
In-Reply-To: <c9c407e4-4914-4f5d-8ff3-ae1ac083cb82@googlegroups.com>
References: <c9c407e4-4914-4f5d-8ff3-ae1ac083cb82@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <20150406001109.GA1009@cskk.homeip.net>

On 05Apr2015 12:20, Daniel Ellis <ellisd23 at gmail.com> wrote:
>I have a small little tool I'd like to make.  It essentially takes piped input, modifies the text in some way, and immediately prints the output.  The problem I'm having is that any output I pipe to the program seems to be buffered, removing the desired effect.

That depends on the upstream program; it does the buffering. The pipe itself 
presents received data downstream immediately.

However, as you've seen, almost every program buffers its standard output if 
the output is not a tty; this is automatic in the stdio C library and results 
in more fficient use of I/O.

>From what I understand, I need to somehow have the input be retrieved via a pseudoterminal.

This is a rather gross hack, though sometimes all you can do. While some 
programs have an option to force unbuffered output, most do not. Attaching 
their output to a pty is one way to encourage them to at least line buffer 
their output.

However, you should bear in mind that the reason that programs line buffer to a 
terminal is that they presume they are in an interactive situation with a 
person watching. The program _may_ act differently in other ways as well, such 
as asking question it might not otherwise ask in "batch" mode (where it might 
cautiously not ask and presume "no").

Also, output sent through a pty is subject to the line discipline in the 
terminal; temrinals are funny things with much historical behaviour. At the 
least you pobably want your pty in "raw" mode to avoid all sorts of stuff that 
can be done to your data.

>The problem that I'm having is that most examples on the internet seem to assume I would like to launch a program in a forked pty process, which doesn't really fit my use case.

Indeed not, but not to worry. You don't need to fork.

>I've tried a number of things, but I seem to be unable to get even a basic understanding of how to use the pty module.

Have you every used a pty from C? Do you know how ptys work? (master side, 
slave side, etc).

>Here's a piece of code I whipped up just to try to get a feel for what is going on when I use pty.fork, but it doesn't seem to do what I think it should:
>
>    import pty
>    import os
>    import sys
>
>    pid, fd = pty.fork()
>    print pid, fd
>    sys.stdout.flush()
>    os.read(fd, 1024)
>
>This only seems to print from the parent process.

The documentation for pty.fork says:

  Return value is (pid, fd). Note that the child gets pid 0, and the fd is invalid.

So the child cannot used "fd". It further says that the child has its stdin and 
stdout attached to the pty, and that the pty is the child's controlling 
terminal (this means it is affected by things like "typing" ^C at the pty, 
etc).

>I read that I need to do the os.read call for the fork to happen.  I've also 
tried printing *after* the os.read call.

Don't try to adapt fork-based tutorials to your needs. Understand ptys directly 
first.

>I realize this does very little to solve my overall goal, but I figure understanding what is going on is probably a worthwhile first step.

What you probably want to use is pty.openpty() instead. No fork. You will get 
back file descriptors for the master and slave sides of the pty. Then you can 
use these with the subprocess module to connect your input program. Or, 
guessing from your opening sentence, you can write a wrapper script whose whole 
purpose is to run a program on a pty.

Regarding terminology: a pseudoterminal (pty) is a device that looks like a 
traditional serial terminal. All terminal emulators like xterm use one, and so 
do other programs presenting a terminal session such as the sshd process 
handling an interactive remote login.

When you call pty.openpty() you are handed two file descriptors: one for the 
master side of the pty and one for the slave side. The slave side is the side 
that looks like a terminal, and is what a typical use would connect a child 
process to. The master side is the other side of the pty. When a program writes 
to the "slave" side, the output is available for read on the master side, much 
like a pipe. When a program writes to the master side, the output is available 
for read on the slave side, _as_ _if_ _typed_ at the terminal.

A pty is not necessarily going to solve your problem unless you can get your 
input via the pty. From the sounds of it you're in this situation:

  command-generating-output | your-program

such that your input is attached to a pipe, and because 
"command-generating-output" is attached to a pipe it is block buffering its 
output, hence your problem.

You can't undo that situation after the fact.

To solve your problem via a pty you need to contrive to set up 
"command-generating-output" already attached to a pty. One way to do that is 
for "your-program" to open a pty and itself invoke "command-generating-output" 
with its output via the pty, which is why so many tutorials suppose a "fork" 
situation.

One typical away to do that is to pass the "command-generating-output" command 
name and args to your program, eg:

  your-program command-generating-output [args...]

Then your main program can gather that up:

  import sys
  command_generating_output = sys.argv[1:]

Then you can call pty.openpty(), and then use the slave file descriptor with 
subprocess.Popen to invoke command_generating_output. Thus the generating 
command will be talking to you via a pty instead of a pipe.

Cheers,
Cameron Simpson <cs at zip.com.au>

It is interesting to think of the great blaze of heaven that we winnow
down to animal shapes and kitchen tools.        - Don DeLillo


From steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info  Sun Apr  5 21:00:48 2015
From: steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: Mon, 06 Apr 2015 11:00:48 +1000
Subject: Is it possible to deliver different source distributions for
 different Python versions?
References: <9826e06e-be2f-4e3f-87b2-89e933a0d003@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <5521dac2$0$12980$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

On Mon, 6 Apr 2015 06:38 am, Dave Hein wrote:

> I would like to distribute a python package with different code for
> Python 2.* than for Python 3.*. (Mostly this is because of different
> unicode string handling).
> 
> There is nothing in to setuptools or PyPi that directly supports
> this scenario.
> 
> But perhaps there could be some script run at install time that moves
> the correct source code to the right location? In other works, if I
> included both source code versions in the distribution (in a src2 and
> a src3 subdirectory) then a function invoked at install time could
> detect the python version and copy the appropriate source code to the
> right location.
> 
> Is that at all possible? Is there some install time hook that lets me
> supply custom installation code?

I'm not aware of any standard solution to that, but I'm not a setuptools
expert. setup.py files are Python code, so you can put any code you like in
them. But, as far as I am concerned, having the installer pick and choose
what source files to include is not a good solution. Instead, you should
pick one of these two alternatives:


(1) Supply a separate package for 2.x and 3.x, each with their own
installer. The installer confirms that it is running under the correct
version of Python, and just installs.


(2) Or supply a single package with a single installer that works under both
2.x and 3.x. (This is my preference.)

One way of handling the second case is to only support 3.3 or better: that
way, you can still use u"..." for Unicode strings. Hardly anyone used 3.1
or 3.2, and 3.0 is no longer supported, so it is quite reasonable to insist
people upgrade to 3.3.

Another way to handle the second case is to use conditional imports:


# mymodule2
mystring = u"????"  # Also works in 3.3 or better.

# mymodule3
mystring = "????"


# main application
from __future__ import print_function
from future_builtins import *
if sys.version < '3':
    import mymodule2 as mymodule
else:
    import mymodule3 as mymodule
print(mymodule.mystring)



-- 
Steven



From sepideh.gh at gmail.com  Sun Apr  5 22:26:41 2015
From: sepideh.gh at gmail.com (Sepideh Ghanavati)
Date: Sun, 5 Apr 2015 19:26:41 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: XML Parsing
Message-ID: <e81a7755-9319-4109-ab6b-697f464baf2e@googlegroups.com>

Hi, 

I know basic of python and I have an xml file created from csv which has three attributes "category", "definition" and "definition description". I want to parse through xml file and identify actors, constraints, principal from the text. However, I am not sure what is the best way to go. Any suggestion?


From ben+python at benfinney.id.au  Sun Apr  5 22:39:26 2015
From: ben+python at benfinney.id.au (Ben Finney)
Date: Mon, 06 Apr 2015 12:39:26 +1000
Subject: XML Parsing
References: <e81a7755-9319-4109-ab6b-697f464baf2e@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <85fv8eyo81.fsf@benfinney.id.au>

Sepideh Ghanavati <sepideh.gh at gmail.com> writes:

> I know basic of python and I have an xml file created from csv

What XML schema defines the document's format?

Without knowing the schema, parsing will be unreliable.

What created the document? Why is it relevant that the document was
?created from CSV??

> which has three attributes "category", "definition" and "definition
> description".

What do you mean by ?attributes??

In Python, an attribute has a specific meaning.

In XML, an attribute has a rather different meaning.

Neither of those meanings seems to apply to ?the XML document has three
attributes?. XML documents don't have attributes; differnt XML elements
in a document have different attributes.

> I want to parse through xml file and identify actors, constraints,
> principal from the text.

How are those defined in the document's schema?

> However, I am not sure what is the best way to go. Any suggestion?

You should:

* Learn some more about XML
  <URL:http://www.xmlobjective.com/the-basic-principles-of-xml/>.

* Learn exactly what formal document schema defines the document
  <URL:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XML_schema>. If the document isn't
  accompanied by a specification of exactly what its schema is, you're
  going to have a difficult time.

-- 
 \        ?If I melt dry ice, can I swim without getting wet?? ?Steven |
  `\                                                            Wright |
_o__)                                                                  |
Ben Finney



From breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk  Sun Apr  5 23:27:26 2015
From: breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk (Mark Lawrence)
Date: Mon, 06 Apr 2015 04:27:26 +0100
Subject: Is it possible to deliver different source distributions for
 different Python versions?
In-Reply-To: <9826e06e-be2f-4e3f-87b2-89e933a0d003@googlegroups.com>
References: <9826e06e-be2f-4e3f-87b2-89e933a0d003@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <mfsuf3$frb$1@ger.gmane.org>

On 05/04/2015 21:38, Dave Hein wrote:
> I would like to distribute a python package with different code for
> Python 2.* than for Python 3.*. (Mostly this is because of different
> unicode string handling).
>
> There is nothing in to setuptools or PyPi that directly supports
> this scenario.
>
> But perhaps there could be some script run at install time that moves
> the correct source code to the right location? In other works, if I
> included both source code versions in the distribution (in a src2 and
> a src3 subdirectory) then a function invoked at install time could
> detect the python version and copy the appropriate source code to the
> right location.
>
> Is that at all possible? Is there some install time hook that lets me
> supply custom installation code?
>
> --
> Dave Hein
>

I can't help directly but have you looked here 
https://packaging.python.org/en/latest/ ?

-- 
My fellow Pythonistas, ask not what our language can do for you, ask
what you can do for our language.

Mark Lawrence



From stefan_ml at behnel.de  Mon Apr  6 01:46:11 2015
From: stefan_ml at behnel.de (Stefan Behnel)
Date: Mon, 06 Apr 2015 07:46:11 +0200
Subject: Is it possible to deliver different source distributions for
 different Python versions?
In-Reply-To: <9826e06e-be2f-4e3f-87b2-89e933a0d003@googlegroups.com>
References: <9826e06e-be2f-4e3f-87b2-89e933a0d003@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <mft6j6$siv$1@ger.gmane.org>

Dave Hein schrieb am 05.04.2015 um 22:38:
> I would like to distribute a python package with different code for
> Python 2.* than for Python 3.*. (Mostly this is because of different
> unicode string handling).
> 
> There is nothing in to setuptools or PyPi that directly supports
> this scenario.
> 
> But perhaps there could be some script run at install time that moves
> the correct source code to the right location? In other works, if I
> included both source code versions in the distribution (in a src2 and
> a src3 subdirectory) then a function invoked at install time could
> detect the python version and copy the appropriate source code to the
> right location.
> 
> Is that at all possible? Is there some install time hook that lets me
> supply custom installation code?

Sure. You can simply change the directory in which distutils looks for your
Python code:

https://docs.python.org/2/distutils/setupscript.html#listing-whole-packages

However, in general, you shouldn't be doing this. It's usually easier
(definitely in the long-term) to keep your sources cross-Py2.x/3.x
compatible, maybe with the help of tools like "six" or "python-future",
than to try to keep separate source trees in sync.

http://python-future.org/

Stefan




From stefan_ml at behnel.de  Mon Apr  6 01:54:41 2015
From: stefan_ml at behnel.de (Stefan Behnel)
Date: Mon, 06 Apr 2015 07:54:41 +0200
Subject: XML Parsing
In-Reply-To: <e81a7755-9319-4109-ab6b-697f464baf2e@googlegroups.com>
References: <e81a7755-9319-4109-ab6b-697f464baf2e@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <mft734$2na$1@ger.gmane.org>

Sepideh Ghanavati schrieb am 06.04.2015 um 04:26:
> I know basic of python and I have an xml file created from csv which has
> three attributes "category", "definition" and "definition description".
> I want to parse through xml file and identify actors, constraints,
> principal from the text. However, I am not sure what is the best way to
> go. Any suggestion?

If it's really generated from a CSV file, you could also parse that instead:

https://docs.python.org/3/library/csv.html

Admittedly, CSV files are simple, but they also have major problems,
especially when it comes to detecting their character encoding and their
specific format (tab/comma/semicolon/space/whatever separated, with or
without escaping, quoted values, ...). Meaning, you can easily end up
reading nonsense from the file instead of the content that was originally
put into it.

So, if you want to parse from XML instead, use ElementTree:

https://docs.python.org/3/library/xml.etree.elementtree.html

Stefan



From michael at linuxsystems.rocks  Mon Apr  6 04:40:17 2015
From: michael at linuxsystems.rocks (Michael S.)
Date: Mon, 06 Apr 2015 11:40:17 +0300
Subject: implementing pyshark
Message-ID: <55224671.1020104@linuxsystems.rocks>

Hi everyone. while trying to implement pyshark, i am getting this error:
        import pyshark
       capture = pyshark.LiveCapture(interface='wlan0')
       capture.sniff(timeout=50)
       capture
i have tried also to run it through interpreter yet, i got this error:
import pyshark
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
ImportError                               Traceback (most recent call last)
<ipython-input-1-e46ddf42872e> in <module>()
----> 1 import pyshark

/usr/local/lib/python2.7/dist-packages/pyshark-0.3.4-py2.7.egg/pyshark/__init__.py 
in <module>()
----> 1 from pyshark.capture.live_capture import LiveCapture
       2 from pyshark.capture.file_capture import FileCapture
       3 from pyshark.capture.remote_capture import RemoteCapture
       4 from pyshark.capture.inmem_capture import InMemCapture

/usr/local/lib/python2.7/dist-packages/pyshark-0.3.4-py2.7.egg/pyshark/capture/live_capture.py 
in <module>()
----> 1 from pyshark.capture.capture import Capture
       2 from pyshark.tshark.tshark import get_tshark_interfaces
       3
       4
       5 class LiveCapture(Capture):

/usr/local/lib/python2.7/dist-packages/pyshark-0.3.4-py2.7.egg/pyshark/capture/capture.py 
in <module>()
       1 from __future__ import unicode_literals
       2 import os
----> 3 import logbook
       4 import sys
       5

/usr/local/lib/python2.7/dist-packages/logbook/__init__.py in <module>()
      12
      13
---> 14 from logbook.base import LogRecord, Logger, LoggerGroup, 
NestedSetup, \
      15      Processor, Flags, get_level_name, lookup_level, 
dispatch_record, \
      16      CRITICAL, ERROR, WARNING, NOTICE, INFO, DEBUG, NOTSET, \

/usr/local/lib/python2.7/dist-packages/logbook/base.py in <module>()
      16 from datetime import datetime
      17 from logbook import helpers
---> 18 from logbook.concurrency import thread_get_name, 
thread_get_ident, greenlet_get_ident
      19
      20 from logbook.helpers import to_safe_json, parse_iso8601, 
cached_property, \

/usr/local/lib/python2.7/dist-packages/logbook/concurrency.py in <module>()
      29
      30 if has_gevent:
---> 31     from gevent._threading import (Lock as ThreadLock,
      32                                    RLock as ThreadRLock,
      33                                    get_ident as thread_get_ident,

ImportError: No module named _threading

i tried importing threading first and importing pyshark, but the answer 
was the same.
any suggestions?


From dylanlee.evans95 at gmail.com  Mon Apr  6 07:23:28 2015
From: dylanlee.evans95 at gmail.com (Dylan Evans)
Date: Mon, 6 Apr 2015 12:23:28 +0100
Subject: Is it possible to deliver different source distributions
 for different Python versions?
In-Reply-To: <mailman.64.1428314404.30547.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.64.1428314404.30547.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <etPan.55226cb0.643c9869.18d@Dylans-MBP>

> I would like to distribute a python package with different code for?
> Python 2.* than for Python 3.*. (Mostly this is because of different?
> unicode string handling).?

> There is nothing in to setuptools or PyPi that directly supports?
> this scenario.?
The 2to3 utility will handle the unicode differences. You can set the keyword argument use_2to3 to True in setup.py dependent on the version number like so:

====================

extra = {}

if sys.version_info >= (3, ):

? ? extra['use_2to3'] = True

====================

and then put **extra in setup.py. This will run 2to3 on the code when it installs it. I don?t know whether this is good style but it does work. I got it from the feedparser source code.?


--?
Dylan Evans

On 6 April 2015 at 11:05:47, python-list-request at python.org (python-list-request at python.org) wrote:

Send Python-list mailing list submissions to  
python-list at python.org  

To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit  
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list  
or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to  
python-list-request at python.org  

You can reach the person managing the list at  
python-list-owner at python.org  

When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific  
than "Re: Contents of Python-list digest..."  
Today's Topics:  

1. Permission denied when opening a file that was created  
concurrently by os.rename (Windows) (Alexey Izbyshev)  
2. Re: Permission denied when opening a file that was created  
concurrently by os.rename (Windows) (Chris Angelico)  
3. Re: Permission denied when opening a file that was created  
concurrently by os.rename (Windows) (Alexey Izbyshev)  
4. Re: Permission denied when opening a file that was created  
concurrently by os.rename (Windows) (Dave Angel)  
5. Help with pipes, buffering and pseudoterminals (Daniel Ellis)  
6. Re: Permission denied when opening a file that was created  
concurrently by os.rename (Windows) (Terry Reedy)  
7. Is it possible to deliver different source distributions for  
different Python versions? (Dave Hein)  
8. ANN: polynice 0.7 - a nice(1) like utility for throttling  
processes (garabik-news-2005-05 at kassiopeia.juls.savba.sk)  
9. Re: Help with pipes, buffering and pseudoterminals (Nobody)  
10. Re: Help with pipes, buffering and pseudoterminals  
(Cameron Simpson)  
11. Re: Is it possible to deliver different source distributions  
for different Python versions? (Steven D'Aprano)  
12. XML Parsing (Sepideh Ghanavati)  
13. Re: XML Parsing (Ben Finney)  
14. Re: Is it possible to deliver different source distributions  
for different Python versions? (Mark Lawrence)  
15. Re: Is it possible to deliver different source distributions  
for different Python versions? (Stefan Behnel)  
16. Re: XML Parsing (Stefan Behnel)  
17. Re: OOP for System Administrator (pankaj sharma)  
18. implementing pyshark (Michael S.)  
Hello!  

I've hit a strange problem that I reduced to the following test case:  
* Run several python processes in parallel that spin in the following  
loop:  
while True:  
if os.path.isfile(fname):  
with open(fname, 'rb') as f:  
f.read()  
break  
* Then, run another process that creates a temporary file and then  
renames it to the name than other processes are expecting  
* Now, some of the reading processes occasionally fail with "Permission  
denied" OSError  

I was able to reproduce it on two Windows 7 64-bit machines. It seems  
when the file appears on the filesystem it is still unavailable to  
reading, but I have no idea how it can happen. Both source and  
destination files are in the same directory, and the destination doesn't  
exist before calling os.rename. Everything I could find indicates that  
os.rename should be atomic under this conditions even on Windows, so  
nobody should be able to observe the destination in unaccessible state.  

I know that I can workaround this problem by removing useless  
os.path.isfile() check and wrapping open() with try-except, but I'd like  
to know the root cause of the problem. Please share you thoughts.  

The test case is attached, the main file is test.bat. Python is  
expected to be in PATH. Stderr of readers is redirected to *.log. You  
may need to run several times to hit the issue.  

Alexey Izbyshev,  
research assistant,  
ISP RAS  


On Mon, Apr 6, 2015 at 3:45 AM, Alexey Izbyshev <izbyshev at ispras.ru> wrote:  
> The test case is attached, the main file is test.bat. Python is expected to  
> be in PATH. Stderr of readers is redirected to *.log. You may need to run  
> several times to hit the issue.  

You have an interesting-looking problem, but the attachment didn't  
arrive. Is it short enough to include in-line as text in your email?  

ChrisA  

On 2015-04-05 20:45, Alexey Izbyshev wrote:  
> Hello!  
>  
> I've hit a strange problem that I reduced to the following test case:  
> * Run several python processes in parallel that spin in the following  
> loop:  
> while True:  
> if os.path.isfile(fname):  
> with open(fname, 'rb') as f:  
> f.read()  
> break  
> * Then, run another process that creates a temporary file and then  
> renames it to the name than other processes are expecting  
> * Now, some of the reading processes occasionally fail with  
> "Permission denied" OSError  
>  
> I was able to reproduce it on two Windows 7 64-bit machines. It seems  
> when the file appears on the filesystem it is still unavailable to  
> reading, but I have no idea how it can happen. Both source and  
> destination files are in the same directory, and the destination  
> doesn't exist before calling os.rename. Everything I could find  
> indicates that os.rename should be atomic under this conditions even  
> on Windows, so nobody should be able to observe the destination in  
> unaccessible state.  
>  
> I know that I can workaround this problem by removing useless  
> os.path.isfile() check and wrapping open() with try-except, but I'd  
> like to know the root cause of the problem. Please share you thoughts.  
>  
> The test case is attached, the main file is test.bat. Python is  
> expected to be in PATH. Stderr of readers is redirected to *.log. You  
> may need to run several times to hit the issue.  
>  
> Alexey Izbyshev,  
> research assistant,  
> ISP RAS  
The attachment was rejected because of .bat files, so here is the code:  
test.bat:  
======================  
@echo off  
del test.txt  
del *.log  

for /L %%i in (1, 1, 10) do (  
start /b run-with-log.bat %%i  
)  

pythonw test-rename.py  
======================  
run-with-log.bat:  
======================  
@echo off  
pythonw test-read.py %1 >nul 2>%1.log  
exit  
======================  
On 04/05/2015 01:45 PM, Alexey Izbyshev wrote:  
> Hello!  
>  
> I've hit a strange problem that I reduced to the following test case:  
> * Run several python processes in parallel that spin in the following loop:  
> while True:  
> if os.path.isfile(fname):  
> with open(fname, 'rb') as f:  
> f.read()  
> break  
> * Then, run another process that creates a temporary file and then  
> renames it to the name than other processes are expecting  
> * Now, some of the reading processes occasionally fail with "Permission  
> denied" OSError  
>  
> I was able to reproduce it on two Windows 7 64-bit machines. It seems  
> when the file appears on the filesystem it is still unavailable to  
> reading, but I have no idea how it can happen. Both source and  
> destination files are in the same directory, and the destination doesn't  
> exist before calling os.rename. Everything I could find indicates that  
> os.rename should be atomic under this conditions even on Windows, so  
> nobody should be able to observe the destination in unaccessible state.  
>  
> I know that I can workaround this problem by removing useless  
> os.path.isfile() check and wrapping open() with try-except, but I'd like  
> to know the root cause of the problem. Please share you thoughts.  
>  
> The test case is attached, the main file is test.bat. Python is expected  
> to be in PATH. Stderr of readers is redirected to *.log. You may need to  
> run several times to hit the issue.  
>  
> Alexey Izbyshev,  
> research assistant,  
> ISP RAS  
>  

The attachment is missing; please just include it inline, after  
reducing it to a reasonably minimal sample.  

My guess is that the process that does the os.rename is not closing the  
original file before renaming it. So even though the rename is atomic,  
the file is still locked by the first process.  



--  
DaveA  

I have a small little tool I'd like to make. It essentially takes piped input, modifies the text in some way, and immediately prints the output. The problem I'm having is that any output I pipe to the program seems to be buffered, removing the desired effect.  

>From what I understand, I need to somehow have the input be retrieved via a pseudoterminal. The problem that I'm having is that most examples on the internet seem to assume I would like to launch a program in a forked pty process, which doesn't really fit my use case.  

I've tried a number of things, but I seem to be unable to get even a basic understanding of how to use the pty module. Here's a piece of code I whipped up just to try to get a feel for what is going on when I use pty.fork, but it doesn't seem to do what I think it should:  

import pty  
import os  
import sys  

pid, fd = pty.fork()  

print pid, fd  
sys.stdout.flush()  

os.read(fd, 1024)  

This only seems to print from the parent process. I read that I need to do the os.read call for the fork to happen. I've also tried printing *after* the os.read call.  

I realize this does very little to solve my overall goal, but I figure understanding what is going on is probably a worthwhile first step.  

On 4/5/2015 1:45 PM, Alexey Izbyshev wrote:  
> Hello!  
>  
> I've hit a strange problem that I reduced to the following test case:  
> * Run several python processes in parallel that spin in the following loop:  

> while True:  
> if os.path.isfile(fname):  
> with open(fname, 'rb') as f:  
> f.read()  
> break  

Besides anything else, I would consider adding a minimal sleep in the loop.  

> * Then, run another process that creates a temporary file and then  
> renames it to the name than other processes are expecting  
> * Now, some of the reading processes occasionally fail with "Permission  
> denied" OSError  

--  
Terry Jan Reedy  


I would like to distribute a python package with different code for  
Python 2.* than for Python 3.*. (Mostly this is because of different  
unicode string handling).  

There is nothing in to setuptools or PyPi that directly supports  
this scenario.  

But perhaps there could be some script run at install time that moves  
the correct source code to the right location? In other works, if I  
included both source code versions in the distribution (in a src2 and  
a src3 subdirectory) then a function invoked at install time could  
detect the python version and copy the appropriate source code to the  
right location.  

Is that at all possible? Is there some install time hook that lets me  
supply custom installation code?  

--  
Dave Hein  

polynice is a nice(1)-like command line utility for unix systems to  
throttle long running processes beyond what can be achieved by nice(1),  
by repeatedly suspending and resuming the process.  

It is written for python3, though there is some python2.7 compatibility.  

Author:  
Radovan Garab?k  

URL:  
http://kassiopeia.juls.savba.sk/~garabik/software/polynice.html  

License:  
GPL (v2)  

Notable changes:  
* This is the first public release under the name `polynice' - the  
utility has been renamed from `verynice' due to name clash with an  
existing software.  
* polynice can now emulate timeout(1) - terminate process after given  
time has passed  
* MacOS X improvements  
* better python2 compatiblity  

--  
-----------------------------------------------------------  
| Radovan Garab?k http://kassiopeia.juls.savba.sk/~garabik/ |  
| __..--^^^--..__ garabik @ kassiopeia.juls.savba.sk |  
-----------------------------------------------------------  
Antivirus alert: file .signature infected by signature virus.  
Hi! I'm a signature virus! Copy me into your signature file to help me spread!  

On Sun, 05 Apr 2015 12:20:48 -0700, Daniel Ellis wrote:  

> This only seems to print from the parent process. I read that I need to  
> do the os.read call for the fork to happen. I've also tried printing  
> *after* the os.read call.  

The child process has its std{in,out,err} attached to the newly-created  
pty, so that's where the output from the child's "print" goes.  

You'll see that output if the parent prints the string returned from the  
os.read() call.  


On 05Apr2015 12:20, Daniel Ellis <ellisd23 at gmail.com> wrote:  
>I have a small little tool I'd like to make. It essentially takes piped input, modifies the text in some way, and immediately prints the output. The problem I'm having is that any output I pipe to the program seems to be buffered, removing the desired effect.  

That depends on the upstream program; it does the buffering. The pipe itself  
presents received data downstream immediately.  

However, as you've seen, almost every program buffers its standard output if  
the output is not a tty; this is automatic in the stdio C library and results  
in more fficient use of I/O.  

>From what I understand, I need to somehow have the input be retrieved via a pseudoterminal.  

This is a rather gross hack, though sometimes all you can do. While some  
programs have an option to force unbuffered output, most do not. Attaching  
their output to a pty is one way to encourage them to at least line buffer  
their output.  

However, you should bear in mind that the reason that programs line buffer to a  
terminal is that they presume they are in an interactive situation with a  
person watching. The program _may_ act differently in other ways as well, such  
as asking question it might not otherwise ask in "batch" mode (where it might  
cautiously not ask and presume "no").  

Also, output sent through a pty is subject to the line discipline in the  
terminal; temrinals are funny things with much historical behaviour. At the  
least you pobably want your pty in "raw" mode to avoid all sorts of stuff that  
can be done to your data.  

>The problem that I'm having is that most examples on the internet seem to assume I would like to launch a program in a forked pty process, which doesn't really fit my use case.  

Indeed not, but not to worry. You don't need to fork.  

>I've tried a number of things, but I seem to be unable to get even a basic understanding of how to use the pty module.  

Have you every used a pty from C? Do you know how ptys work? (master side,  
slave side, etc).  

>Here's a piece of code I whipped up just to try to get a feel for what is going on when I use pty.fork, but it doesn't seem to do what I think it should:  
>  
> import pty  
> import os  
> import sys  
>  
> pid, fd = pty.fork()  
> print pid, fd  
> sys.stdout.flush()  
> os.read(fd, 1024)  
>  
>This only seems to print from the parent process.  

The documentation for pty.fork says:  

Return value is (pid, fd). Note that the child gets pid 0, and the fd is invalid.  

So the child cannot used "fd". It further says that the child has its stdin and  
stdout attached to the pty, and that the pty is the child's controlling  
terminal (this means it is affected by things like "typing" ^C at the pty,  
etc).  

>I read that I need to do the os.read call for the fork to happen. I've also  
tried printing *after* the os.read call.  

Don't try to adapt fork-based tutorials to your needs. Understand ptys directly  
first.  

>I realize this does very little to solve my overall goal, but I figure understanding what is going on is probably a worthwhile first step.  

What you probably want to use is pty.openpty() instead. No fork. You will get  
back file descriptors for the master and slave sides of the pty. Then you can  
use these with the subprocess module to connect your input program. Or,  
guessing from your opening sentence, you can write a wrapper script whose whole  
purpose is to run a program on a pty.  

Regarding terminology: a pseudoterminal (pty) is a device that looks like a  
traditional serial terminal. All terminal emulators like xterm use one, and so  
do other programs presenting a terminal session such as the sshd process  
handling an interactive remote login.  

When you call pty.openpty() you are handed two file descriptors: one for the  
master side of the pty and one for the slave side. The slave side is the side  
that looks like a terminal, and is what a typical use would connect a child  
process to. The master side is the other side of the pty. When a program writes  
to the "slave" side, the output is available for read on the master side, much  
like a pipe. When a program writes to the master side, the output is available  
for read on the slave side, _as_ _if_ _typed_ at the terminal.  

A pty is not necessarily going to solve your problem unless you can get your  
input via the pty. From the sounds of it you're in this situation:  

command-generating-output | your-program  

such that your input is attached to a pipe, and because  
"command-generating-output" is attached to a pipe it is block buffering its  
output, hence your problem.  

You can't undo that situation after the fact.  

To solve your problem via a pty you need to contrive to set up  
"command-generating-output" already attached to a pty. One way to do that is  
for "your-program" to open a pty and itself invoke "command-generating-output"  
with its output via the pty, which is why so many tutorials suppose a "fork"  
situation.  

One typical away to do that is to pass the "command-generating-output" command  
name and args to your program, eg:  

your-program command-generating-output [args...]  

Then your main program can gather that up:  

import sys  
command_generating_output = sys.argv[1:]  

Then you can call pty.openpty(), and then use the slave file descriptor with  
subprocess.Popen to invoke command_generating_output. Thus the generating  
command will be talking to you via a pty instead of a pipe.  

Cheers,  
Cameron Simpson <cs at zip.com.au>  

It is interesting to think of the great blaze of heaven that we winnow  
down to animal shapes and kitchen tools. - Don DeLillo  

On Mon, 6 Apr 2015 06:38 am, Dave Hein wrote:  

> I would like to distribute a python package with different code for  
> Python 2.* than for Python 3.*. (Mostly this is because of different  
> unicode string handling).  
>  
> There is nothing in to setuptools or PyPi that directly supports  
> this scenario.  
>  
> But perhaps there could be some script run at install time that moves  
> the correct source code to the right location? In other works, if I  
> included both source code versions in the distribution (in a src2 and  
> a src3 subdirectory) then a function invoked at install time could  
> detect the python version and copy the appropriate source code to the  
> right location.  
>  
> Is that at all possible? Is there some install time hook that lets me  
> supply custom installation code?  

I'm not aware of any standard solution to that, but I'm not a setuptools  
expert. setup.py files are Python code, so you can put any code you like in  
them. But, as far as I am concerned, having the installer pick and choose  
what source files to include is not a good solution. Instead, you should  
pick one of these two alternatives:  


(1) Supply a separate package for 2.x and 3.x, each with their own  
installer. The installer confirms that it is running under the correct  
version of Python, and just installs.  


(2) Or supply a single package with a single installer that works under both  
2.x and 3.x. (This is my preference.)  

One way of handling the second case is to only support 3.3 or better: that  
way, you can still use u"..." for Unicode strings. Hardly anyone used 3.1  
or 3.2, and 3.0 is no longer supported, so it is quite reasonable to insist  
people upgrade to 3.3.  

Another way to handle the second case is to use conditional imports:  


# mymodule2  
mystring = u"????" # Also works in 3.3 or better.  

# mymodule3  
mystring = "????"  


# main application  
from __future__ import print_function  
from future_builtins import *  
if sys.version < '3':  
import mymodule2 as mymodule  
else:  
import mymodule3 as mymodule  
print(mymodule.mystring)  



--  
Steven  


Hi,  

I know basic of python and I have an xml file created from csv which has three attributes "category", "definition" and "definition description". I want to parse through xml file and identify actors, constraints, principal from the text. However, I am not sure what is the best way to go. Any suggestion?  

Sepideh Ghanavati <sepideh.gh at gmail.com> writes:  

> I know basic of python and I have an xml file created from csv  

What XML schema defines the document's format?  

Without knowing the schema, parsing will be unreliable.  

What created the document? Why is it relevant that the document was  
?created from CSV??  

> which has three attributes "category", "definition" and "definition  
> description".  

What do you mean by ?attributes??  

In Python, an attribute has a specific meaning.  

In XML, an attribute has a rather different meaning.  

Neither of those meanings seems to apply to ?the XML document has three  
attributes?. XML documents don't have attributes; differnt XML elements  
in a document have different attributes.  

> I want to parse through xml file and identify actors, constraints,  
> principal from the text.  

How are those defined in the document's schema?  

> However, I am not sure what is the best way to go. Any suggestion?  

You should:  

* Learn some more about XML  
<URL:http://www.xmlobjective.com/the-basic-principles-of-xml/>.  

* Learn exactly what formal document schema defines the document  
<URL:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XML_schema>. If the document isn't  
accompanied by a specification of exactly what its schema is, you're  
going to have a difficult time.  

--  
\ ?If I melt dry ice, can I swim without getting wet?? ?Steven |  
`\ Wright |  
_o__) |  
Ben Finney  


On 05/04/2015 21:38, Dave Hein wrote:  
> I would like to distribute a python package with different code for  
> Python 2.* than for Python 3.*. (Mostly this is because of different  
> unicode string handling).  
>  
> There is nothing in to setuptools or PyPi that directly supports  
> this scenario.  
>  
> But perhaps there could be some script run at install time that moves  
> the correct source code to the right location? In other works, if I  
> included both source code versions in the distribution (in a src2 and  
> a src3 subdirectory) then a function invoked at install time could  
> detect the python version and copy the appropriate source code to the  
> right location.  
>  
> Is that at all possible? Is there some install time hook that lets me  
> supply custom installation code?  
>  
> --  
> Dave Hein  
>  

I can't help directly but have you looked here  
https://packaging.python.org/en/latest/ ?  

--  
My fellow Pythonistas, ask not what our language can do for you, ask  
what you can do for our language.  

Mark Lawrence  


Dave Hein schrieb am 05.04.2015 um 22:38:  
> I would like to distribute a python package with different code for  
> Python 2.* than for Python 3.*. (Mostly this is because of different  
> unicode string handling).  
>  
> There is nothing in to setuptools or PyPi that directly supports  
> this scenario.  
>  
> But perhaps there could be some script run at install time that moves  
> the correct source code to the right location? In other works, if I  
> included both source code versions in the distribution (in a src2 and  
> a src3 subdirectory) then a function invoked at install time could  
> detect the python version and copy the appropriate source code to the  
> right location.  
>  
> Is that at all possible? Is there some install time hook that lets me  
> supply custom installation code?  

Sure. You can simply change the directory in which distutils looks for your  
Python code:  

https://docs.python.org/2/distutils/setupscript.html#listing-whole-packages  

However, in general, you shouldn't be doing this. It's usually easier  
(definitely in the long-term) to keep your sources cross-Py2.x/3.x  
compatible, maybe with the help of tools like "six" or "python-future",  
than to try to keep separate source trees in sync.  

http://python-future.org/  

Stefan  



Sepideh Ghanavati schrieb am 06.04.2015 um 04:26:  
> I know basic of python and I have an xml file created from csv which has  
> three attributes "category", "definition" and "definition description".  
> I want to parse through xml file and identify actors, constraints,  
> principal from the text. However, I am not sure what is the best way to  
> go. Any suggestion?  

If it's really generated from a CSV file, you could also parse that instead:  

https://docs.python.org/3/library/csv.html  

Admittedly, CSV files are simple, but they also have major problems,  
especially when it comes to detecting their character encoding and their  
specific format (tab/comma/semicolon/space/whatever separated, with or  
without escaping, quoted values, ...). Meaning, you can easily end up  
reading nonsense from the file instead of the content that was originally  
put into it.  

So, if you want to parse from XML instead, use ElementTree:  

https://docs.python.org/3/library/xml.etree.elementtree.html  

Stefan  


Yes Michael, your guess is right. I once was a Java Programmer :)  

Thanks for the advice and link.  

Regards,  

Hi everyone. while trying to implement pyshark, i am getting this error:  
import pyshark  
capture = pyshark.LiveCapture(interface='wlan0')  
capture.sniff(timeout=50)  
capture  
i have tried also to run it through interpreter yet, i got this error:  
import pyshark  
---------------------------------------------------------------------------  
ImportError Traceback (most recent call last)  
<ipython-input-1-e46ddf42872e> in <module>()  
----> 1 import pyshark  

/usr/local/lib/python2.7/dist-packages/pyshark-0.3.4-py2.7.egg/pyshark/__init__.py  
in <module>()  
----> 1 from pyshark.capture.live_capture import LiveCapture  
2 from pyshark.capture.file_capture import FileCapture  
3 from pyshark.capture.remote_capture import RemoteCapture  
4 from pyshark.capture.inmem_capture import InMemCapture  

/usr/local/lib/python2.7/dist-packages/pyshark-0.3.4-py2.7.egg/pyshark/capture/live_capture.py  
in <module>()  
----> 1 from pyshark.capture.capture import Capture  
2 from pyshark.tshark.tshark import get_tshark_interfaces  
3  
4  
5 class LiveCapture(Capture):  

/usr/local/lib/python2.7/dist-packages/pyshark-0.3.4-py2.7.egg/pyshark/capture/capture.py  
in <module>()  
1 from __future__ import unicode_literals  
2 import os  
----> 3 import logbook  
4 import sys  
5  

/usr/local/lib/python2.7/dist-packages/logbook/__init__.py in <module>()  
12  
13  
---> 14 from logbook.base import LogRecord, Logger, LoggerGroup,  
NestedSetup, \  
15 Processor, Flags, get_level_name, lookup_level,  
dispatch_record, \  
16 CRITICAL, ERROR, WARNING, NOTICE, INFO, DEBUG, NOTSET, \  

/usr/local/lib/python2.7/dist-packages/logbook/base.py in <module>()  
16 from datetime import datetime  
17 from logbook import helpers  
---> 18 from logbook.concurrency import thread_get_name,  
thread_get_ident, greenlet_get_ident  
19  
20 from logbook.helpers import to_safe_json, parse_iso8601,  
cached_property, \  

/usr/local/lib/python2.7/dist-packages/logbook/concurrency.py in <module>()  
29  
30 if has_gevent:  
---> 31 from gevent._threading import (Lock as ThreadLock,  
32 RLock as ThreadRLock,  
33 get_ident as thread_get_ident,  

ImportError: No module named _threading  

i tried importing threading first and importing pyshark, but the answer  
was the same.  
any suggestions?  

--  
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/attachments/20150406/375a9311/attachment.html>

From steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info  Mon Apr  6 07:52:30 2015
From: steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: Mon, 06 Apr 2015 21:52:30 +1000
Subject: Is it possible to deliver different source distributions for
 different Python versions?
References: <mailman.64.1428314404.30547.python-list@python.org>
 <mailman.64.1428319799.12925.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <55227381$0$13003$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

On Mon, 6 Apr 2015 09:23 pm, Dylan Evans wrote:

[content snipped]


Hi Dylan, and welcome!

If you're going to post in response to people's questions, would you please
disable HTML email and trim your responses? This mailing list is mirrored
on Usenet, as comp.lang.python, where HTML is against the rules of the
newsgroup and is considered rude.

If you're planning on sticking around as a regular contributor, and we hope
you do, the best way to read this group is to use individual emails, not
digests. When you reply to a digest, unless you trim the response, we get a
copy of the ENTIRE digest, in this case eighteen posts we have already seen
before. And then *doubled*, because Gmail sends a plain text version plus a
HTML version. So we get 1855 lines of text shoved down our throat,
including a massive block of rubbish that looks like this:

<head><style>body=7Bfont-family:Helvetica,Arial;font-size:13px=7D</=
style></head><body style=3D=22word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: s=
pace; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;=22><div id=3D=22bloop=5Fcust=
omfont=22 style=3D=22margin: 0px;=22><div><blockquote type=3D=22cite=22 c=
lass=3D=22clean=5Fbq=22 style=3D=22color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helv=
etica, Arial; font-size: 13px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; =
font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans=
: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-=
space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width=
: 0px;=22></blockquote>&gt; I would like to distribute a python package w=
ith different code for&nbsp;<br><blockquote type=3D=22cite=22 class=3D=22=
clean=5Fbq=22 style=3D=22color: rgb(0, 0, 0);

and so on for a couple of pages. Wonderful, right?

I understand that Gmail is a pig about these sorts of things, and makes it
really hard to avoid breaking list etiquette. We appreciate whatever you
can do, and while a few of us may bark occasionally, we don't bite.

If you're using Thunderbird, it has an option to disable sending HTML to
certain addresses. If you need help finding that option, don't hesitate to
ask and I'm sure somebody will be happy to give you instructions.


To the rest of the list... didn't somebody write up a wiki post on how to
convince Gmail to be less unreasonable about top posting, quoting, etc?
Does anyone still have the link?


Thanks,



-- 
Steven



From steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info  Mon Apr  6 08:05:38 2015
From: steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: Mon, 06 Apr 2015 22:05:38 +1000
Subject: implementing pyshark
References: <mailman.61.1428312968.12925.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <55227694$0$13012$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

On Mon, 6 Apr 2015 06:40 pm, Michael S. wrote:

> Hi everyone. while trying to implement pyshark, i am getting this error:
[...]

> ImportError: No module named _threading


Well that's awesome. I don't think I've seen that in Python 2.7 before.
Apparently, you are using a version of Python compiled without support for
threading. I didn't think that was still possible.

How did you install Python? Did you build it from source?

My guess is that you did build from source, but you were missing some
packages needed for threading support so the Python interpreter was built
without threading. That means you'll have to re-install to fix this
problem.

But first you'll need to install the necessary dependencies. What operating
system and/or distro are you using? It looks like Linux or Unix, or maybe
Mac OS X.


-- 
Steven



From __peter__ at web.de  Mon Apr  6 08:11:00 2015
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Mon, 06 Apr 2015 14:11 +0200
Subject: implementing pyshark
References: <55224671.1020104@linuxsystems.rocks>
Message-ID: <mftt4m$7rm$1@ger.gmane.org>

Michael S. wrote:

> Hi everyone. while trying to implement pyshark, i am getting this error:
>         import pyshark
>        capture = pyshark.LiveCapture(interface='wlan0')
>        capture.sniff(timeout=50)
>        capture
> i have tried also to run it through interpreter yet, i got this error:
> import pyshark
> 
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
> ImportError                               Traceback (most recent call
> last) <ipython-input-1-e46ddf42872e> in <module>()
> ----> 1 import pyshark
> 
> /usr/local/lib/python2.7/dist-packages/pyshark-0.3.4-
py2.7.egg/pyshark/__init__.py
> in <module>()
> ----> 1 from pyshark.capture.live_capture import LiveCapture
>        2 from pyshark.capture.file_capture import FileCapture
>        3 from pyshark.capture.remote_capture import RemoteCapture
>        4 from pyshark.capture.inmem_capture import InMemCapture
> 
> /usr/local/lib/python2.7/dist-packages/pyshark-0.3.4-
py2.7.egg/pyshark/capture/live_capture.py
> in <module>()
> ----> 1 from pyshark.capture.capture import Capture
>        2 from pyshark.tshark.tshark import get_tshark_interfaces
>        3
>        4
>        5 class LiveCapture(Capture):
> 
> /usr/local/lib/python2.7/dist-packages/pyshark-0.3.4-
py2.7.egg/pyshark/capture/capture.py
> in <module>()
>        1 from __future__ import unicode_literals
>        2 import os
> ----> 3 import logbook
>        4 import sys
>        5
> 
> /usr/local/lib/python2.7/dist-packages/logbook/__init__.py in <module>()
>       12
>       13
> ---> 14 from logbook.base import LogRecord, Logger, LoggerGroup,
> NestedSetup, \
>       15      Processor, Flags, get_level_name, lookup_level,
> dispatch_record, \
>       16      CRITICAL, ERROR, WARNING, NOTICE, INFO, DEBUG, NOTSET, \
> 
> /usr/local/lib/python2.7/dist-packages/logbook/base.py in <module>()
>       16 from datetime import datetime
>       17 from logbook import helpers
> ---> 18 from logbook.concurrency import thread_get_name,
> thread_get_ident, greenlet_get_ident
>       19
>       20 from logbook.helpers import to_safe_json, parse_iso8601,
> cached_property, \
> 
> /usr/local/lib/python2.7/dist-packages/logbook/concurrency.py in
> <module>()
>       29
>       30 if has_gevent:
> ---> 31     from gevent._threading import (Lock as ThreadLock,
>       32                                    RLock as ThreadRLock,
>       33                                    get_ident as thread_get_ident,
> 
> ImportError: No module named _threading
> 
> i tried importing threading first and importing pyshark, but the answer
> was the same.
> any suggestions?

Line 30 suggests that pyshark assumes that gevent is installed while line 31 
indicates that gevent is not installed correctly.

So do you have an incomplete install of gevent? Either remove it or replace 
it with a working one, i. e.

import gevent
import gevent._threading

should either both fail or both succeed.



From michael at linuxsystems.rocks  Mon Apr  6 08:45:03 2015
From: michael at linuxsystems.rocks (Michael S.)
Date: Mon, 06 Apr 2015 15:45:03 +0300
Subject: implementing pyshark
In-Reply-To: <55227694$0$13012$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
References: <mailman.61.1428312968.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <55227694$0$13012$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <55227FCF.4050107@linuxsystems.rocks>

I am using kali-linux(debian based). i have installed all from 
repository. i haven't tried yet to use the source but i don't think it 
was compiled incorrectly. Kali's developers are quite precise in terms 
of OS development.

On 04/06/2015 03:05 PM, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> On Mon, 6 Apr 2015 06:40 pm, Michael S. wrote:
>
>> Hi everyone. while trying to implement pyshark, i am getting this error:
> [...]
>
>> ImportError: No module named _threading
>
> Well that's awesome. I don't think I've seen that in Python 2.7 before.
> Apparently, you are using a version of Python compiled without support for
> threading. I didn't think that was still possible.
>
> How did you install Python? Did you build it from source?
>
> My guess is that you did build from source, but you were missing some
> packages needed for threading support so the Python interpreter was built
> without threading. That means you'll have to re-install to fix this
> problem.
>
> But first you'll need to install the necessary dependencies. What operating
> system and/or distro are you using? It looks like Linux or Unix, or maybe
> Mac OS X.
>
>



From michael at linuxsystems.rocks  Mon Apr  6 08:46:52 2015
From: michael at linuxsystems.rocks (Michael S.)
Date: Mon, 06 Apr 2015 15:46:52 +0300
Subject: implementing pyshark
In-Reply-To: <mftt4m$7rm$1@ger.gmane.org>
References: <55224671.1020104@linuxsystems.rocks> <mftt4m$7rm$1@ger.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <5522803C.2020109@linuxsystems.rocks>

import gevent --->  successful
import gevent._threading ---> fails
  output :
In [2]: import gevent._threading
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
ImportError                               Traceback (most recent call last)
<ipython-input-2-50f3ada08750> in <module>()
----> 1 import gevent._threading

ImportError: No module named _threading

In [3]: import gevent_threading
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
ImportError                               Traceback (most recent call last)
<ipython-input-3-4e15c2794ea3> in <module>()
----> 1 import gevent_threading

ImportError: No module named gevent_threading



On 04/06/2015 03:11 PM, Peter Otten wrote:
> Michael S. wrote:
>
>> Hi everyone. while trying to implement pyshark, i am getting this error:
>>          import pyshark
>>         capture = pyshark.LiveCapture(interface='wlan0')
>>         capture.sniff(timeout=50)
>>         capture
>> i have tried also to run it through interpreter yet, i got this error:
>> import pyshark
>>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> ImportError                               Traceback (most recent call
>> last) <ipython-input-1-e46ddf42872e> in <module>()
>> ----> 1 import pyshark
>>
>> /usr/local/lib/python2.7/dist-packages/pyshark-0.3.4-
> py2.7.egg/pyshark/__init__.py
>> in <module>()
>> ----> 1 from pyshark.capture.live_capture import LiveCapture
>>         2 from pyshark.capture.file_capture import FileCapture
>>         3 from pyshark.capture.remote_capture import RemoteCapture
>>         4 from pyshark.capture.inmem_capture import InMemCapture
>>
>> /usr/local/lib/python2.7/dist-packages/pyshark-0.3.4-
> py2.7.egg/pyshark/capture/live_capture.py
>> in <module>()
>> ----> 1 from pyshark.capture.capture import Capture
>>         2 from pyshark.tshark.tshark import get_tshark_interfaces
>>         3
>>         4
>>         5 class LiveCapture(Capture):
>>
>> /usr/local/lib/python2.7/dist-packages/pyshark-0.3.4-
> py2.7.egg/pyshark/capture/capture.py
>> in <module>()
>>         1 from __future__ import unicode_literals
>>         2 import os
>> ----> 3 import logbook
>>         4 import sys
>>         5
>>
>> /usr/local/lib/python2.7/dist-packages/logbook/__init__.py in <module>()
>>        12
>>        13
>> ---> 14 from logbook.base import LogRecord, Logger, LoggerGroup,
>> NestedSetup, \
>>        15      Processor, Flags, get_level_name, lookup_level,
>> dispatch_record, \
>>        16      CRITICAL, ERROR, WARNING, NOTICE, INFO, DEBUG, NOTSET, \
>>
>> /usr/local/lib/python2.7/dist-packages/logbook/base.py in <module>()
>>        16 from datetime import datetime
>>        17 from logbook import helpers
>> ---> 18 from logbook.concurrency import thread_get_name,
>> thread_get_ident, greenlet_get_ident
>>        19
>>        20 from logbook.helpers import to_safe_json, parse_iso8601,
>> cached_property, \
>>
>> /usr/local/lib/python2.7/dist-packages/logbook/concurrency.py in
>> <module>()
>>        29
>>        30 if has_gevent:
>> ---> 31     from gevent._threading import (Lock as ThreadLock,
>>        32                                    RLock as ThreadRLock,
>>        33                                    get_ident as thread_get_ident,
>>
>> ImportError: No module named _threading
>>
>> i tried importing threading first and importing pyshark, but the answer
>> was the same.
>> any suggestions?
> Line 30 suggests that pyshark assumes that gevent is installed while line 31
> indicates that gevent is not installed correctly.
>
> So do you have an incomplete install of gevent? Either remove it or replace
> it with a working one, i. e.
>
> import gevent
> import gevent._threading
>
> should either both fail or both succeed.
>

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/attachments/20150406/31357512/attachment.html>

From ian.g.kelly at gmail.com  Mon Apr  6 10:05:54 2015
From: ian.g.kelly at gmail.com (Ian Kelly)
Date: Mon, 6 Apr 2015 08:05:54 -0600
Subject: Is it possible to deliver different source distributions for
 different Python versions?
In-Reply-To: <55227381$0$13003$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
References: <mailman.64.1428314404.30547.python-list@python.org>
 <mailman.64.1428319799.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <55227381$0$13003$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <CALwzidkcJ6LPr4MV2nLkb0jdj2RqPHwJWO15optuaLkbSnPZew@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Apr 6, 2015 at 5:52 AM, Steven D'Aprano
<steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info> wrote:
> To the rest of the list... didn't somebody write up a wiki post on how to
> convince Gmail to be less unreasonable about top posting, quoting, etc?
> Does anyone still have the link?

There is https://wiki.python.org/moin/GoogleGroupsPython about posting
from Google Groups, but I'm not aware of a similar resource for Gmail,
which has far fewer issues. As long as you compose your email in plain
text mode and remember to move the cursor from the top when replying,
Gmail is fine.


From rosuav at gmail.com  Mon Apr  6 10:26:22 2015
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Tue, 7 Apr 2015 00:26:22 +1000
Subject: Is it possible to deliver different source distributions for
 different Python versions?
In-Reply-To: <CALwzidkcJ6LPr4MV2nLkb0jdj2RqPHwJWO15optuaLkbSnPZew@mail.gmail.com>
References: <mailman.64.1428314404.30547.python-list@python.org>
 <mailman.64.1428319799.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <55227381$0$13003$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <CALwzidkcJ6LPr4MV2nLkb0jdj2RqPHwJWO15optuaLkbSnPZew@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmoDG73uFChokPE2RSr4znnJVmPQep4anO8aY05OmD-sww@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Apr 7, 2015 at 12:05 AM, Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly at gmail.com> wrote:
> There is https://wiki.python.org/moin/GoogleGroupsPython about posting
> from Google Groups, but I'm not aware of a similar resource for Gmail,
> which has far fewer issues. As long as you compose your email in plain
> text mode and remember to move the cursor from the top when replying,
> Gmail is fine.

There's one other niggling issue, and that's that it doesn't support
"Reply to List". So you either have to hit Reply, and then replace the
single recipient with the list address, or Reply-All and remove the
superfluous duplicates. (Personally, I do the latter. Much too easy to
reply to the wrong list, else.)

ChrisA


From __peter__ at web.de  Mon Apr  6 10:46:12 2015
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Mon, 06 Apr 2015 16:46:12 +0200
Subject: implementing pyshark
References: <55224671.1020104@linuxsystems.rocks> <mftt4m$7rm$1@ger.gmane.org>
 <5522803C.2020109@linuxsystems.rocks>
Message-ID: <mfu67l$om7$1@ger.gmane.org>

Michael S. wrote:

[Please don't top-post. Thank you]

> import gevent --->  successful
> import gevent._threading ---> fails
>   output :
> In [2]: import gevent._threading
> 
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
> ImportError                               Traceback (most recent call
> last) <ipython-input-2-50f3ada08750> in <module>()
> ----> 1 import gevent._threading
> 
> ImportError: No module named _threading

And the question is?

Everything that follows comes directly from my crystal ball and has the 
potential to break more stuff; if you try it you do it at your own risk.

Again, most likely you have a broken python-gevent install. If you got this 
by attempting a manual install from source without the necessary build 
dependencies you can either add these and try again.

Alternatively you can remove the debris:

1 Find out the location of the gevent folder:

$ python -c 'import gevent; print gevent.__file__'
/somefolder/gevent/__init__.pyc

2 Remove the gevent folder (unless it's maintained by the package manager).
$ rm -r /somefolder/gevent

Now pyshark should correctly detect that gevent is not available and use a 
fallback.

3 If you need gevent later use the official way to install it

$ sudo apt-get install python-gevent

in the hope that it contains a _threading module and pyshark will start 
using gevent again, this time successfully.



From jkellymdmph at yahoo.com  Mon Apr  6 15:25:04 2015
From: jkellymdmph at yahoo.com (John Kelly)
Date: Mon, 6 Apr 2015 19:25:04 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Russell--Those additional questions you had
Message-ID: <1146212666.471242.1428348304174.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com>

Pythonites,
I received Python with another install and my update software keeps signaling I need to install a newer version, and once I do, the older version is still there, so I keep getting told I need to update. Should I be able to uninstall the old version each time?
Thanks for your kind attention,John Kelly
On 3/31/15 10:09 AM, John Kelly wrote:
> Pythonites,
>
> I received Python with another install and my update software keeps
> signaling I need to install a newer version, and once I do, the older
> version is still there, so I keep getting told I need to update. Should
> I be able to uninstall the old version each time?
>
> Thanks for your kind attention,
> John Kelly

I would need more information to help. What operating system are you on? 
How and where are you installing Python (and what do you mean by 
"received Python with another install"?).

-- Russell
Russell,
I found Python on my system through the use of Secunia PSI, as it was flagged as needing update and I had not noticed Python before.? 

It shows Python 2.5.X in C:\Program Files (x86)\Acer\clear.fi SDK21\Video\koan\python25.dll and shows Python 2.7.X in C:\Windows\SysWOW64\python27.dll and shows Python 2.7.x in C:\Windows\System32\Python27.dll and also Python 3.x in C:\Windows\SysWOW64\Python34.dll
I just wonder if all these copies are necessary or if I am supposed to manually uninstall the previous versions.? When I download an upgrade, I love to see the installer removing old files before installing the upgrade, and feel almost sure it's dumping almost all the effluent of old versions.? 

Secunia sometimes gets a wild hair in its program to keep all installs up to date, and? will flag something it claims to be updating but never seems to accomplish this, so must be done manually.? Fair enough, as it was free and only trying to help secure my system.? Here are the stats on my system:
OS Name??? Microsoft Windows 7 Home Premium
Version??? 6.1.7601 Service Pack 1 Build 7601
Other OS Description ??? Not Available
OS Manufacturer??? Microsoft Corporation
System Manufacturer??? Acer
System Model??? Predator G3620
System Type??? x64-based PC
Processor??? Intel(R) Core(TM) i7-3770 CPU @ 3.40GHz, 3401 Mhz, 4 Core(s), 8 Logical Processor(s)
BIOS Version/Date??? American Megatrends Inc. P01-A1, 3/12/2012
SMBIOS Version??? 2.7
Windows Directory??? C:\Windows
System Directory??? C:\Windows\system32
Boot Device??? \Device\HarddiskVolume2
Locale??? United States
Hardware Abstraction Layer??? Version = "6.1.7601.17514"
Time Zone??? Eastern Daylight Time
Installed Physical Memory (RAM)??? 12.0 GB
Total Physical Memory??? 11.9 GB
Available Physical Memory??? 9.00 GB
Total Virtual Memory??? 23.9 GB
Available Virtual Memory??? 20.7 GB
Page File Space??? 11.9 GB
Page File??? C:\pagefile.sys

I appreciate your offer of help and hope to not need to interrupt your time further.? I am intrigued, however, by this computing language being made more understandable for a neophyte like myself.? I'll read a bit more about it.Thanks!John Kelly
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/attachments/20150406/167433a4/attachment.html>

From tjreedy at udel.edu  Mon Apr  6 16:06:52 2015
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Mon, 06 Apr 2015 16:06:52 -0400
Subject: implementing pyshark
In-Reply-To: <55227694$0$13012$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
References: <mailman.61.1428312968.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <55227694$0$13012$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <mfup1p$kmk$1@ger.gmane.org>

On 4/6/2015 8:05 AM, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> On Mon, 6 Apr 2015 06:40 pm, Michael S. wrote:
>
>> Hi everyone. while trying to implement pyshark, i am getting this error:
> [...]
>
>> ImportError: No module named _threading
>
>
> Well that's awesome. I don't think I've seen that in Python 2.7 before.
> Apparently, you are using a version of Python compiled without support for
> threading. I didn't think that was still possible.

There is (used to be) a 'without threads' buildbot
http://buildbot.python.org/all/builders/AMD64%20Fedora%20without%20threads%203.x
though it has been offline for a year.


-- 
Terry Jan Reedy



From dylanlee.evans95 at gmail.com  Mon Apr  6 16:41:45 2015
From: dylanlee.evans95 at gmail.com (Dylan Evans)
Date: Mon, 6 Apr 2015 21:41:45 +0100
Subject: Python-list Digest, Vol 139, Issue 7
In-Reply-To: <mailman.64.1428314404.30547.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.64.1428314404.30547.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <etPan.5522ef89.16b5f27.1ab4@Dylans-MBP>

On Mon, Apr 6, 2015 at 5:52 AM, Steven D?Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info> wrote:
> I understand that Gmail is a pig about these sorts of things, and makes it
> really hard to avoid breaking list etiquette. We appreciate whatever you
> can do, and while a few of us may bark occasionally, we don't bite.

Oh my days, I?m really sorry about that! It didn?t cross my mind that I was using the rich text composer, and I cursed myself for leaving the whole email on the end.

I use an email client called Airmail, so I?ve just set plain text as the default. It shouldn?t affect me at all.

Thank you for being understanding and my apologies once again. I hope my attempt at help was at least readable.

(Also sorry if I?m committing another faux pas by clogging up the list but I had to apologise!)

?

Dylan Evans


From shrivastavkhyati at gmail.com  Mon Apr  6 18:02:08 2015
From: shrivastavkhyati at gmail.com (Khyati)
Date: Mon, 6 Apr 2015 15:02:08 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Python library - WMI.py RegistryValueChangeEvent
Message-ID: <02021a54-2770-4072-808a-75bea346051d@googlegroups.com>

I have a question about RegistryValueChangeEvent that I have not been able to find an answer to on the internet so far. I would appreciate any help since I have already spent a lot of time finding any material that explains this:

What I am trying to do: 
- create an event when a value for a registry key changes

How I am doing it:
>raw_wql = "SELECT * FROM RegistryValueChangeEvent WHERE Hive='HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE' AND KeyPath='Software\\\\Temp' AND ValueName='Name\'"
>watcher = c.watch_for(raw_wql=raw_wql,wmi_class = "__ExtrinsicEvent")
>while TRUE:
>    process_created = watcher()

Problem:
the _wmi_event object returned is not coming back as Extrinsic event - 
So, in wmi.py, in class _wmi_watcher:
   "self.is_extrinsic" returns false and I get an exception from the else part - [line 1186 - 1195]

What I need 
- Any reference/idea/explanation on => why does RegistryValueChangeEvent returns as a Non-Extrinsic  event? even though it has been derived from __ExtrinsicEvent

Other information:
Running on Windows 8 64 Bit 
>>> platform.machine()
'AMD64'
>>> platform.architecture()
('64bit', 'WindowsPE')
>>> platform.python_version()
'2.7.8'
>>> platform.python_implementation()
'CPython'

Using WMI-1.4.9.win32 - downloaded via PIP
pywin32-219.win-amd64-py2.7

Thanks


From bschollnick at gmail.com  Mon Apr  6 18:12:09 2015
From: bschollnick at gmail.com (Benjamin Schollnick)
Date: Mon, 6 Apr 2015 18:12:09 -0400
Subject: pypi submission?
Message-ID: <BBF80AD2-A29F-493D-B9DE-C2BAB15275C5@gmail.com>

Folks,

I?m having issues with submitting to pypi.

I can register and upload my package.

nerv:~ Benjamin$ pip search directory_caching
Directory_Caching         - A Caching library for Directories & Files
nerv:~ Benjamin$ 

but, if you try to install it using pip:

pip install directory_caching
Reading Profile from ~/dropbox/shellscripts/profile
nerv:~ Benjamin$ pip install directory_caching
Collecting directory-caching
  Could not find any downloads that satisfy the requirement directory-caching
  No distributions at all found for directory-caching

If you do a verbose:

Last login: Mon Apr  6 18:05:02 on ttys000
Reading Profile from ~/dropbox/shellscripts/profile
nerv:~ Benjamin$ pip -v install directory_caching
Collecting directory-caching
  Getting page https://pypi.python.org/simple/directory-caching/
  URLs to search for versions for directory-caching:
  * https://pypi.python.org/simple/directory-caching/
  Getting page https://pypi.python.org/simple/directory-caching/
  Analyzing links from page https://pypi.python.org/simple/directory-caching/
  Could not find any downloads that satisfy the requirement directory-caching
  Cleaning up...
  No distributions at all found for directory-caching
  Exception information:
  Traceback (most recent call last):
    File "/Library/Python/2.7/site-packages/pip/basecommand.py", line 232, in main
      status = self.run(options, args)
    File "/Library/Python/2.7/site-packages/pip/commands/install.py", line 339, in run
      requirement_set.prepare_files(finder)
    File "/Library/Python/2.7/site-packages/pip/req/req_set.py", line 333, in prepare_files
      upgrade=self.upgrade,
    File "/Library/Python/2.7/site-packages/pip/index.py", line 397, in find_requirement
      'No distributions at all found for %s' % req
  DistributionNotFound: No distributions at all found for directory-caching

The package is here, https://github.com/bschollnick/Directory_Caching <https://github.com/bschollnick/Directory_Caching>.

And I?ve been messing around with different config files, etc, trying to solve the problem myself.  
Can anyone point out what I have done wrong?

If a simpler package would be useful, then https://github.com/bschollnick/semantic_url <https://github.com/bschollnick/semantic_url>

I haven?t attempted to release semantic_url yet, simply because I?m trying to solve Directory_Caching first.
And yes, I know caching files & directory listings is a black voodoo art, and asking for trouble.

This attempts to validate three different ways, and I?ve been using it for quite a while without any issue.  It?s invaluable in the web gallery when you have a directory that can have 2-4K worth of files.

		- Benjamin

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/attachments/20150406/78726eff/attachment.html>

From rosuav at gmail.com  Mon Apr  6 19:49:57 2015
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Tue, 7 Apr 2015 09:49:57 +1000
Subject: Python library - WMI.py RegistryValueChangeEvent
In-Reply-To: <02021a54-2770-4072-808a-75bea346051d@googlegroups.com>
References: <02021a54-2770-4072-808a-75bea346051d@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmqJHJokSZ-Ch=7gQOASyMU5MjPD+2haUA6hvdpdrzdzXQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Apr 7, 2015 at 8:02 AM, Khyati <shrivastavkhyati at gmail.com> wrote:
> I have a question about RegistryValueChangeEvent that I have not been able to find an answer to on the internet so far. I would appreciate any help since I have already spent a lot of time finding any material that explains this:
>
> What I am trying to do:
> - create an event when a value for a registry key changes

Thanks for being clear about this part! Unfortunately, there are a few
other parts that aren't clear yet, so hopefully you can expand on your
question a bit.

> How I am doing it:
>>raw_wql = "SELECT * FROM RegistryValueChangeEvent WHERE Hive='HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE' AND KeyPath='Software\\\\Temp' AND ValueName='Name\'"

Tip: Try adding "print(raw_wql)" just underneath this line, to see if
you're getting back what you really want. The backslash at the end of
ValueName is not currently doing anything.

>>watcher = c.watch_for(raw_wql=raw_wql,wmi_class = "__ExtrinsicEvent")
>>while TRUE:
>>    process_created = watcher()

This code isn't complete. Can you post a complete (and minimal)
example piece of code?

> Problem:
> the _wmi_event object returned is not coming back as Extrinsic event -
> So, in wmi.py, in class _wmi_watcher:
>    "self.is_extrinsic" returns false and I get an exception from the else part - [line 1186 - 1195]

It'd help hugely if you could post the entire traceback here - what
exception you're getting, and the exact lines that produce it.

> What I need
> - Any reference/idea/explanation on => why does RegistryValueChangeEvent returns as a Non-Extrinsic  event? even though it has been derived from __ExtrinsicEvent
>
> Other information:
> Running on Windows 8 64 Bit
>>>> platform.machine()
> 'AMD64'
>>>> platform.architecture()
> ('64bit', 'WindowsPE')
>>>> platform.python_version()
> '2.7.8'
>>>> platform.python_implementation()
> 'CPython'
>
> Using WMI-1.4.9.win32 - downloaded via PIP
> pywin32-219.win-amd64-py2.7

Just for reference, this is a general Python discussion list. Lots of
us won't know specific libraries, so all we can offer is fairly
general information. If you can't get the help you need here, you may
do better to look for more specific help about this module.

All the best!

ChrisA


From bschollnick at gmail.com  Mon Apr  6 20:26:16 2015
From: bschollnick at gmail.com (Benjamin Schollnick)
Date: Mon, 6 Apr 2015 20:26:16 -0400
Subject: pypi submission?
In-Reply-To: <etPan.55230d0b.773a65e7.1ab4@Dylans-MBP>
References: <BBF80AD2-A29F-493D-B9DE-C2BAB15275C5@gmail.com>
 <etPan.55230d0b.773a65e7.1ab4@Dylans-MBP>
Message-ID: <298CED39-919E-47D1-A42D-8594E19ADE76@gmail.com>


> On Apr 6, 2015, at 6:47 PM, Dylan Evans <dylanlee.evans95 at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> On 6 April 2015 at 23:21:02, Benjamin Schollnick (bschollnick at gmail.com) wrote:
>> And I?ve been messing around with different config files, etc, trying to solve the problem  
>> myself.
>> Can anyone point out what I have done wrong?
> 
> What upload command are you using? I see no files at https://pypi.python.org/pypi/Directory_Caching/1.0.5, so pip search returns an entry but there?s nothing to install.  Usually there?s a table with the first heading ?File? which contains links to tarballs etc. 
> 
> The command "python setup.py sdist upload? should do it.

That?s what I have been doing?  

I started with using the guide from Peter Downs (http://peterdowns.com/posts/first-time-with-pypi.html <http://peterdowns.com/posts/first-time-with-pypi.html>).
That seemed to work fine, until I went to install from pip.  And I?ve been hacking at it for about a week or so, with no luck.  I haven?t found any troubleshooting guides for pypi.

Here?s the captures of the register, sdist upload, and a verbose pip install from pypitest.

My guess is that there is something odd in my setup.py file?  

It?s a merge between several different setup.y?s, I?ve been swapping parts out, trying to figure out what is causing it.  But from day 1, using the peter Downs setup.py, this problem existed.

Here?s the current version:

"""Directory Caching - A Caching library for Directories & Files

The Directory Caching library caches and manages directory and file listings data.
The library is being developed for the (Web) Gallery software.
"""

classifiers = """\
Development Status :: 4 - Beta
Intended Audience :: Developers
License :: OSI Approved :: MIT License
Programming Language :: Python
Topic :: Database
Topic :: Software Development :: Libraries :: Python Modules
Operating System :: OS Independent
Operating System :: MacOS :: MacOS X
Operating System :: Microsoft :: Windows
Operating System :: Unix
Programming Language :: Python
Programming Language :: Python :: 2.6
Programming Language :: Python :: 2.7
"""
try:
    from setuptools import setup, find_packages
except:
    from disutils.core import setup, find_packages

__title__ = 'Directory_Caching'
__version__ = '1.10.1'
__author__ = 'Benjamin Schollnick'
__license__ = 'MIT'
__copyright__ = 'Copyright 2015 Benjamin Schollnick'

dependencies = ['natsort', 'scandir']

doclines = __doc__.split("\n")

#
#   Modelled after requests - https://github.com/kennethreitz/requests/blob/master/setup.py
#
setup(
    name='Directory_Caching',
    version=__version__,
    description = doclines[0],
    long_description = "\n".join(doclines[2:]),
    author=__author__,
    author_email='benjamin at schollnick.net',
    url='https://github.com/bschollnick/Directory_Caching',
    license="MIT",
    maintainer='Benjamin Schollnick',
    maintainer_email='benjamin at schollnick.net',
    packages=find_packages(),
    package_dir={'directory_caching': 'directory_caching'},
    include_package_data=True,
#    platforms=["Any"],
    download_url = 'https://github.com/bschollnick/Directory_Caching/tarball/1.05',
    install_requires=dependencies,
    keywords = ['caching', 'files', 'directories', 'scandir', 'naturalsort'],
    classifiers=filter(None, classifiers.split("\n")),
)


nerv:directory_caching Benjamin$ python setup.py register -r pypitest
    running register
    running egg_info
    writing requirements to Directory_Caching.egg-info/requires.txt
    writing Directory_Caching.egg-info/PKG-INFO
    writing top-level names to Directory_Caching.egg-info/top_level.txt
    writing dependency_links to Directory_Caching.egg-info/dependency_links.txt
    reading manifest file 'Directory_Caching.egg-info/SOURCES.txt'
    writing manifest file 'Directory_Caching.egg-info/SOURCES.txt'
    running check
    Registering Directory_Caching to https://testpypi.python.org/pypi
    Server response (200): OK


nerv:directory_caching Benjamin$ python setup.py sdist upload -r pypitest
    running sdist
    running egg_info
    writing requirements to Directory_Caching.egg-info/requires.txt
    writing Directory_Caching.egg-info/PKG-INFO
    writing top-level names to Directory_Caching.egg-info/top_level.txt
    writing dependency_links to Directory_Caching.egg-info/dependency_links.txt
    reading manifest file 'Directory_Caching.egg-info/SOURCES.txt'
    writing manifest file 'Directory_Caching.egg-info/SOURCES.txt'
    warning: sdist: standard file not found: should have one of README, README.rst, README.txt

    running check
    creating Directory_Caching-1.10.1
    creating Directory_Caching-1.10.1/Directory_Caching.egg-info
    creating Directory_Caching-1.10.1/directory_caching
    making hard links in Directory_Caching-1.10.1...
    hard linking setup.cfg -> Directory_Caching-1.10.1
    hard linking setup.py -> Directory_Caching-1.10.1
    hard linking Directory_Caching.egg-info/PKG-INFO -> Directory_Caching-1.10.1/Directory_Caching.egg-info
    hard linking Directory_Caching.egg-info/SOURCES.txt -> Directory_Caching-1.10.1/Directory_Caching.egg-info
    hard linking Directory_Caching.egg-info/dependency_links.txt -> Directory_Caching-1.10.1/Directory_Caching.egg-info
    hard linking Directory_Caching.egg-info/requires.txt -> Directory_Caching-1.10.1/Directory_Caching.egg-info
    hard linking Directory_Caching.egg-info/top_level.txt -> Directory_Caching-1.10.1/Directory_Caching.egg-info
    hard linking directory_caching/__init__.py -> Directory_Caching-1.10.1/directory_caching
    hard linking directory_caching/directory_caching_test.py -> Directory_Caching-1.10.1/directory_caching
    copying setup.cfg -> Directory_Caching-1.10.1
    Writing Directory_Caching-1.10.1/setup.cfg
    Creating tar archive
    removing 'Directory_Caching-1.10.1' (and everything under it)
    running upload
    Submitting dist/Directory_Caching-1.10.1.tar.gz to https://testpypi.python.org/pypi
    Server response (200): OK
    nerv:directory_caching Benjamin$ 


nerv:directory_caching Benjamin$ pip install -i https://testpypi.python.org/pypi directory_caching
    Collecting directory-caching
      Could not find any downloads that satisfy the requirement directory-caching
      No distributions at all found for directory-caching
    nerv:directory_caching Benjamin$ pip install -v -i https://testpypi.python.org/pypi directory_caching
    Collecting directory-caching
      Getting page https://testpypi.python.org/pypi/directory-caching/
      Starting new HTTPS connection (1): testpypi.python.org
      "GET /pypi/directory-caching/ HTTP/1.1" 301 0
      "GET /pypi/Directory_Caching HTTP/1.1" 200 13136
      URLs to search for versions for directory-caching:
      * https://testpypi.python.org/pypi/directory-caching/
      Getting page https://testpypi.python.org/pypi/directory-caching/
      "GET /pypi/Directory_Caching HTTP/1.1" 200 13136
      Analyzing links from page https://testpypi.python.org/pypi/Directory_Caching
        Skipping link http://www.python.org (from https://testpypi.python.org/pypi/Directory_Caching); not a file
        Skipping link https://testpypi.python.org/pypi/Directory_Caching#left-hand-navigation (from https://testpypi.python.org/pypi/Directory_Caching); not a file
        Skipping link https://testpypi.python.org/pypi/Directory_Caching#content-body (from https://testpypi.python.org/pypi/Directory_Caching); not a file
        Skipping link https://testpypi.python.org/pypi (from https://testpypi.python.org/pypi/Directory_Caching); not a file
        Skipping link https://testpypi.python.org/pypi?%3Aaction=browse (from https://testpypi.python.org/pypi/Directory_Caching); not a file
        Skipping link https://testpypi.python.org/pypi?%3Aaction=submit_form (from https://testpypi.python.org/pypi/Directory_Caching); not a file
        Skipping link https://testpypi.python.org/pypi?%3Aaction=list_classifiers (from https://testpypi.python.org/pypi/Directory_Caching); not a file
        Skipping link https://testpypi.python.org/pypi?%3Aaction=index (from https://testpypi.python.org/pypi/Directory_Caching); not a file
        Skipping link https://testpypi.python.org/pypi?%3Aaction=rss (from https://testpypi.python.org/pypi/Directory_Caching); not a file
        Skipping link https://testpypi.python.org/pypi?%3Aaction=packages_rss (from https://testpypi.python.org/pypi/Directory_Caching); not a file
        Skipping link https://testpypi.python.org/pypi?:action=browse&c=533&show=all (from https://testpypi.python.org/pypi/Directory_Caching); not a file
        Skipping link http://wiki.python.org/moin/CheeseShopTutorial (from https://testpypi.python.org/pypi/Directory_Caching); not a file
        Skipping link https://testpypi.python.org/security (from https://testpypi.python.org/pypi/Directory_Caching); not a file
        Skipping link http://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=66150&atid=513504 (from https://testpypi.python.org/pypi/Directory_Caching); not a file
        Skipping link https://bitbucket.org/pypa/pypi/issues (from https://testpypi.python.org/pypi/Directory_Caching); not a file
        Skipping link http://www.python.org/sigs/distutils-sig/ (from https://testpypi.python.org/pypi/Directory_Caching); not a file
        Skipping link http://wiki.python.org/moin/CheeseShopDev (from https://testpypi.python.org/pypi/Directory_Caching); not a file
        Skipping link http://www.python.org/about (from https://testpypi.python.org/pypi/Directory_Caching); not a file
        Skipping link http://www.python.org/news (from https://testpypi.python.org/pypi/Directory_Caching); not a file
        Skipping link http://www.python.org/doc (from https://testpypi.python.org/pypi/Directory_Caching); not a file
        Skipping link http://www.python.org/download (from https://testpypi.python.org/pypi/Directory_Caching); not a file
        Skipping link http://www.python.org/community (from https://testpypi.python.org/pypi/Directory_Caching); not a file
        Skipping link http://www.python.org/psf (from https://testpypi.python.org/pypi/Directory_Caching); not a file
        Skipping link http://www.python.org/dev (from https://testpypi.python.org/pypi/Directory_Caching); not a file
        Skipping link https://testpypi.python.org/pypi/Directory_Caching (from https://testpypi.python.org/pypi/Directory_Caching); not a file
        Skipping link https://testpypi.python.org/pypi?%3Aaction=login (from https://testpypi.python.org/pypi/Directory_Caching); not a file
        Skipping link https://testpypi.python.org/pypi?%3Aaction=register_form (from https://testpypi.python.org/pypi/Directory_Caching); not a file
        Skipping link https://testpypi.python.org/pypi?%3Aaction=forgotten_password_form (from https://testpypi.python.org/pypi/Directory_Caching); not a file
        Skipping link https://testpypi.python.org/pypi?:action=openid (from https://testpypi.python.org/pypi/Directory_Caching); not a file
        Skipping link https://testpypi.python.org/pypi?:action=login&provider=Google (from https://testpypi.python.org/pypi/Directory_Caching); not a file
        Skipping link https://testpypi.python.org/pypi?:action=login&provider=Launchpad (from https://testpypi.python.org/pypi/Directory_Caching); not a file
        Skipping link https://testpypi.python.org/pypi/Directory_Caching/1.10.1 (from https://testpypi.python.org/pypi/Directory_Caching); unknown archive format: .1
        Skipping link https://testpypi.python.org/pypi/Directory_Caching/1.0.504 (from https://testpypi.python.org/pypi/Directory_Caching); unknown archive format: .504
        Skipping link https://testpypi.python.org/pypi/Directory_Caching/1.0.503 (from https://testpypi.python.org/pypi/Directory_Caching); unknown archive format: .503
        Skipping link https://testpypi.python.org/pypi/Directory_Caching/1.0.502 (from https://testpypi.python.org/pypi/Directory_Caching); unknown archive format: .502
        Skipping link https://testpypi.python.org/pypi/Directory_Caching/1.0.501 (from https://testpypi.python.org/pypi/Directory_Caching); unknown archive format: .501
        Skipping link https://testpypi.python.org/pypi/Directory_Caching/1.0.51 (from https://testpypi.python.org/pypi/Directory_Caching); unknown archive format: .51
        Skipping link https://testpypi.python.org/pypi/Directory_Caching/1.0.10 (from https://testpypi.python.org/pypi/Directory_Caching); unknown archive format: .10
        Skipping link https://testpypi.python.org/pypi/Directory_Caching/1.0.9 (from https://testpypi.python.org/pypi/Directory_Caching); unknown archive format: .9
        Skipping link https://testpypi.python.org/pypi/Directory_Caching/1.0.8 (from https://testpypi.python.org/pypi/Directory_Caching); unknown archive format: .8
        Skipping link https://testpypi.python.org/pypi/Directory_Caching/1.0.7 (from https://testpypi.python.org/pypi/Directory_Caching); unknown archive format: .7
        Skipping link https://testpypi.python.org/pypi/Directory_Caching/1.0.6 (from https://testpypi.python.org/pypi/Directory_Caching); unknown archive format: .6
        Skipping link https://testpypi.python.org/pypi/Directory_Caching/1.0.6b1 (from https://testpypi.python.org/pypi/Directory_Caching); unknown archive format: .6b1
        Skipping link https://testpypi.python.org/pypi/Directory_Caching/1.0.5 (from https://testpypi.python.org/pypi/Directory_Caching); unknown archive format: .5
        Skipping link http://www.python.org/about/website (from https://testpypi.python.org/pypi/Directory_Caching); not a file
        Skipping link https://www.fastly.com/ (from https://testpypi.python.org/pypi/Directory_Caching); not a file
        Skipping link http://developer.rackspace.com/ (from https://testpypi.python.org/pypi/Directory_Caching); not a file
        Skipping link http://www.timparkin.co.uk/ (from https://testpypi.python.org/pypi/Directory_Caching); not a file
        Skipping link http://www.python.org/about/legal (from https://testpypi.python.org/pypi/Directory_Caching); not a file
      Could not find any downloads that satisfy the requirement directory-caching
      Cleaning up...
      No distributions at all found for directory-caching
      Exception information:
      Traceback (most recent call last):
        File "/Library/Python/2.7/site-packages/pip/basecommand.py", line 232, in main
          status = self.run(options, args)
        File "/Library/Python/2.7/site-packages/pip/commands/install.py", line 339, in run
          requirement_set.prepare_files(finder)
        File "/Library/Python/2.7/site-packages/pip/req/req_set.py", line 333, in prepare_files
          upgrade=self.upgrade,
        File "/Library/Python/2.7/site-packages/pip/index.py", line 397, in find_requirement
          'No distributions at all found for %s' % req
      DistributionNotFound: No distributions at all found for directory-caching
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/attachments/20150406/adb89941/attachment.html>

From jenesuispasdave at gmail.com  Mon Apr  6 20:48:31 2015
From: jenesuispasdave at gmail.com (Dave Hein)
Date: Mon, 6 Apr 2015 17:48:31 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Is it possible to deliver different source distributions for
 different Python versions?
In-Reply-To: <mailman.58.1428290863.12925.python-list@python.org>
References: <9826e06e-be2f-4e3f-87b2-89e933a0d003@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.58.1428290863.12925.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <af281629-c876-4614-a6b2-f425b1aaa70c@googlegroups.com>

On Sunday, April 5, 2015 at 10:28:55 PM UTC-5, Mark Lawrence wrote:
> On 05/04/2015 21:38, Dave Hein wrote:
> > I would like to distribute a python package with different code for
> > Python 2.* than for Python 3.*. (Mostly this is because of different
> > unicode string handling).
> >
> > There is nothing in to setuptools or PyPi that directly supports
> > this scenario.
> >
> > But perhaps there could be some script run at install time that moves
> > the correct source code to the right location? In other works, if I
> > included both source code versions in the distribution (in a src2 and
> > a src3 subdirectory) then a function invoked at install time could
> > detect the python version and copy the appropriate source code to the
> > right location.
> >
> > Is that at all possible? Is there some install time hook that lets me
> > supply custom installation code?
> >
> > --
> > Dave Hein
> >
> 
> I can't help directly but have you looked here 
> https://packaging.python.org/en/latest/ ?

Yep. I looked there first and from that thought that I could 
distribute "wheels" -- a 2.7 wheel, a 3.3 wheel, and a 3.4 wheel.
But the latest setup.py (version 15.0) doesn't build wheels anymore.
It does build binary distributions, but they are tied more to a
particular version of a particular OS rather than to a particular
version of Python.

So, anyway, I think parts of that documentation site are out of
date. And I didn't see anything that let me do what I wanted.

> 
> -- 
> My fellow Pythonistas, ask not what our language can do for you, ask
> what you can do for our language.
> 
> Mark Lawrence

--
Dave Hein


From jenesuispasdave at gmail.com  Mon Apr  6 20:53:32 2015
From: jenesuispasdave at gmail.com (Dave Hein)
Date: Mon, 6 Apr 2015 17:53:32 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Is it possible to deliver different source distributions for
 different Python versions?
In-Reply-To: <mailman.59.1428299197.12925.python-list@python.org>
References: <9826e06e-be2f-4e3f-87b2-89e933a0d003@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.59.1428299197.12925.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <0ee4ba50-8791-4aad-9493-a3a5d451b38c@googlegroups.com>

On Monday, April 6, 2015 at 12:47:05 AM UTC-5, Stefan Behnel wrote:
> Dave Hein schrieb am 05.04.2015 um 22:38:
> > I would like to distribute a python package with different code for
> > Python 2.* than for Python 3.*. (Mostly this is because of different
> > unicode string handling).
> > 
> > There is nothing in to setuptools or PyPi that directly supports
> > this scenario.
> > 
> > But perhaps there could be some script run at install time that moves
> > the correct source code to the right location? In other works, if I
> > included both source code versions in the distribution (in a src2 and
> > a src3 subdirectory) then a function invoked at install time could
> > detect the python version and copy the appropriate source code to the
> > right location.
> > 
> > Is that at all possible? Is there some install time hook that lets me
> > supply custom installation code?
> 
> Sure. You can simply change the directory in which distutils looks for your
> Python code:
> 
> https://docs.python.org/2/distutils/setupscript.html#listing-whole-packages
> 
> However, in general, you shouldn't be doing this. It's usually easier
> (definitely in the long-term) to keep your sources cross-Py2.x/3.x
> compatible, maybe with the help of tools like "six" or "python-future",
> than to try to keep separate source trees in sync.
> 
> http://python-future.org/
> 
> Stefan

I understand. What got me going down the two-source-trees path is that
the unittest support isn't cross compatible ... the way I'm using
mocks doesn't translate between 2.7 and 3.3.

I also like having really clean 3.x code and just keeping the warts 
confined to the 2.x branch. I use the futures stuff in the 2.x branch
to keep it as close as possible to the 3.x branch, but there are still
enough differences that I have to mung the 3.x changes just a little 
when I merge them back into the 2.x branch.

--
Dave Hein


From steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info  Mon Apr  6 20:55:47 2015
From: steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: Tue, 07 Apr 2015 10:55:47 +1000
Subject: implementing pyshark
References: <mailman.61.1428312968.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <55227694$0$13012$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <mailman.66.1428327093.12925.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <55232b14$0$12976$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

On Mon, 6 Apr 2015 10:45 pm, Michael S. wrote:

> I am using kali-linux(debian based). i have installed all from
> repository. i haven't tried yet to use the source but i don't think it
> was compiled incorrectly. Kali's developers are quite precise in terms
> of OS development.

What happens if you import threading?


If it returns without failure, then your Python interpreter is built
correctly with support for threading, and my guess was wrong.

If you get an error about no module _threading (or possibly _thread, I
forget which) then it is built without support for threading.

But, I'm now leaning towards thinking that Peter Otten's answer is more
likely. It seems to be gevent._threading that is missing. It wasn't
entirely clear from your original post, but in looking back I think Peter
is correct.

You should check whether you are accidentally shadowing gevent:

import gevent
print(gevent.__file__)


If that prints the file name of the actual gevent library, then it is
possible that you have a broken or outdated version of the library.

But if it is a file you have created, then you are shadowing the gevent
library, blocking Python from importing the library, it imports your
version instead. Rename your gevent.py file and the problem will hopefully
go away.



-- 
Steven



From steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info  Mon Apr  6 20:57:19 2015
From: steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: Tue, 07 Apr 2015 10:57:19 +1000
Subject: Is it possible to deliver different source distributions for
 different Python versions?
References: <mailman.64.1428314404.30547.python-list@python.org>
 <mailman.64.1428319799.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <55227381$0$13003$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <mailman.68.1428329202.12925.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <55232b70$0$12976$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

On Tue, 7 Apr 2015 12:05 am, Ian Kelly wrote:

> On Mon, Apr 6, 2015 at 5:52 AM, Steven D'Aprano
> <steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info> wrote:
>> To the rest of the list... didn't somebody write up a wiki post on how to
>> convince Gmail to be less unreasonable about top posting, quoting, etc?
>> Does anyone still have the link?
> 
> There is https://wiki.python.org/moin/GoogleGroupsPython about posting
> from Google Groups, but I'm not aware of a similar resource for Gmail,
> which has far fewer issues. As long as you compose your email in plain
> text mode and remember to move the cursor from the top when replying,
> Gmail is fine.

Ah, that was what I was thinking of -- Google Groups, not Gmail.

It's been too long without a flame war between the haters of GG and its
impassioned defender(s), I had conflated the two Google products. Sorry for
the noise.



-- 
Steven



From jenesuispasdave at gmail.com  Mon Apr  6 20:57:55 2015
From: jenesuispasdave at gmail.com (Dave Hein)
Date: Mon, 6 Apr 2015 17:57:55 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Is it possible to deliver different source distributions for
 different Python versions?
In-Reply-To: <5521dac2$0$12980$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
References: <9826e06e-be2f-4e3f-87b2-89e933a0d003@googlegroups.com>
 <5521dac2$0$12980$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <66a79cac-8ed3-4562-97eb-d7293e186a96@googlegroups.com>

On Sunday, April 5, 2015 at 8:01:22 PM UTC-5, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> On Mon, 6 Apr 2015 06:38 am, Dave Hein wrote:
> 
> > I would like to distribute a python package with different code for
> > Python 2.* than for Python 3.*. (Mostly this is because of different
> > unicode string handling).
> > 
> > There is nothing in to setuptools or PyPi that directly supports
> > this scenario.
> > 
> > But perhaps there could be some script run at install time that moves
> > the correct source code to the right location? In other works, if I
> > included both source code versions in the distribution (in a src2 and
> > a src3 subdirectory) then a function invoked at install time could
> > detect the python version and copy the appropriate source code to the
> > right location.
> > 
> > Is that at all possible? Is there some install time hook that lets me
> > supply custom installation code?
> 
> I'm not aware of any standard solution to that, but I'm not a setuptools
> expert. setup.py files are Python code, so you can put any code you like in
> them. But, as far as I am concerned, having the installer pick and choose
> what source files to include is not a good solution. Instead, you should
> pick one of these two alternatives:
> 
> 
> (1) Supply a separate package for 2.x and 3.x, each with their own
> installer. The installer confirms that it is running under the correct
> version of Python, and just installs.
> 

Yep. That's what I'm doing now. Two distinct packages on PyPi.

> 
> (2) Or supply a single package with a single installer that works under both
> 2.x and 3.x. (This is my preference.)
> 
> One way of handling the second case is to only support 3.3 or better: that
> way, you can still use u"..." for Unicode strings. Hardly anyone used 3.1
> or 3.2, and 3.0 is no longer supported, so it is quite reasonable to insist
> people upgrade to 3.3.
> 

There is other code that doesn't translate cleanly between 2.x and 3.x. Specifically the unittest tests and unittest.mock usage. That's mainly why
I don't have one source tree.

> Another way to handle the second case is to use conditional imports:

Hmm. Maybe I can figure out how to isolate the 2.x weirdness into a 
separate package and conditionally import the 3.x version vs. 2.x version.
I'll look into that.

Thanks.

> 
[snip]
> 
> -- 
> Steven

--
Dave Hein



From jenesuispasdave at gmail.com  Mon Apr  6 21:02:37 2015
From: jenesuispasdave at gmail.com (Dave Hein)
Date: Mon, 6 Apr 2015 18:02:37 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: pypi submission?
In-Reply-To: <mailman.73.1428358749.12925.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.73.1428358749.12925.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3cbfe0cb-6af1-4cd0-b540-44867f94ce24@googlegroups.com>

On Monday, April 6, 2015 at 5:19:29 PM UTC-5, Benjamin Schollnick wrote:
> Folks,
> 
> 
> I'm having issues with submitting to pypi.
> 
> 
> I can register and upload my package.
> 
> 
> 
> nerv:~ Benjamin$ pip search directory_caching
> Directory_Caching         - A Caching library for Directories & Files
> nerv:~ Benjamin$ 
> 
> 
> but, if you try to install it using pip:
> 
> 
> 
> pip install directory_caching
> Reading Profile from ~/dropbox/shellscripts/profile
> nerv:~ Benjamin$ pip install directory_caching
> Collecting directory-caching
>   Could not find any downloads that satisfy the requirement directory-caching
>   No distributions at all found for directory-caching
> 
> 

Try adding the "--pre" option. If your version number is an 'alpha' or 'pre' or 'rc' version (like 1.0a1 or 1.0rc4), then pip won't install it by default ... it will only install 'released' versions (like 1.0 or 1.0.1).

Adding the --pre option tells pip you actually do want the pre-release version. So:

pip install --pre directory-caching


>
[snip]

> 
> 		- Benjamin

--
Dave Hein



From michael at linuxsystems.rocks  Mon Apr  6 22:18:16 2015
From: michael at linuxsystems.rocks (Michael S.)
Date: Tue, 07 Apr 2015 05:18:16 +0300
Subject: implementing pyshark
In-Reply-To: <55232b14$0$12976$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
References: <mailman.61.1428312968.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <55227694$0$13012$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <mailman.66.1428327093.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <55232b14$0$12976$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <55233E68.2050502@linuxsystems.rocks>



On 04/07/2015 03:55 AM, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> On Mon, 6 Apr 2015 10:45 pm, Michael S. wrote:
>
>> I am using kali-linux(debian based). i have installed all from
>> repository. i haven't tried yet to use the source but i don't think it
>> was compiled incorrectly. Kali's developers are quite precise in terms
>> of OS development.
> What happens if you import threading?
>
>
> If it returns without failure, then your Python interpreter is built
> correctly with support for threading, and my guess was wrong.
>
> If you get an error about no module _threading (or possibly _thread, I
> forget which) then it is built without support for threading.
>
> But, I'm now leaning towards thinking that Peter Otten's answer is more
> likely. It seems to be gevent._threading that is missing. It wasn't
> entirely clear from your original post, but in looking back I think Peter
> is correct.
>
> You should check whether you are accidentally shadowing gevent:
>
> import gevent
> print(gevent.__file__)
>
>
> If that prints the file name of the actual gevent library, then it is
> possible that you have a broken or outdated version of the library.
>
> But if it is a file you have created, then you are shadowing the gevent
> library, blocking Python from importing the library, it imports your
> version instead. Rename your gevent.py file and the problem will hopefully
> go away.
>
>
>
  Hi ,
i tried your suggestion: it did print the lib directory. - i tried 
removing the gevent deb-package and then installing  from src but got 
the same error.
I'll download other OS and will test it there.


From sepideh.gh at gmail.com  Mon Apr  6 22:54:16 2015
From: sepideh.gh at gmail.com (Sepi)
Date: Mon, 6 Apr 2015 19:54:16 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Intsalling wxPython
Message-ID: <cd450cad-fa22-4769-b14b-961a60d98d4c@googlegroups.com>

Hi,

I installed wxpython through command line but when I want to use it, python gives me an error:  File "/Users/sepidehghanavati/Desktop/test.py", line 1, in <module>
    import wx
ImportError: No module named 'wx'

When I check my python path it is version 3.3 (/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/3.3/) but when I try to install wxpython via python setup.py install --user it installs in /Users/sepidehghanavati/Library/Python/2.7/bin/

I don't know how to change this.


From adm2303.2304 at gmail.com  Mon Apr  6 23:27:42 2015
From: adm2303.2304 at gmail.com (Sepi Gh)
Date: Mon, 6 Apr 2015 20:27:42 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Intsalling wxPython
In-Reply-To: <cd450cad-fa22-4769-b14b-961a60d98d4c@googlegroups.com>
References: <cd450cad-fa22-4769-b14b-961a60d98d4c@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <d858cc51-7e8e-4d04-86fe-feff6872f2cd@googlegroups.com>

On Monday, 6 April 2015 22:54:26 UTC-4, Sepi  wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> I installed wxpython through command line but when I want to use it, python gives me an error:  File "/Users/sepidehghanavati/Desktop/test.py", line 1, in <module>
>     import wx
> ImportError: No module named 'wx'
> 
> When I check my python path it is version 3.3 (/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/3.3/) but when I try to install wxpython via python setup.py install --user it installs in /Users/sepidehghanavati/Library/Python/2.7/bin/
> 
> I don't know how to change this.

I got the answer! Just using python 3 instead of python in the command line


From adm2303.2304 at gmail.com  Mon Apr  6 23:29:41 2015
From: adm2303.2304 at gmail.com (Sepi Gh)
Date: Mon, 6 Apr 2015 20:29:41 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Intsalling wxPython
In-Reply-To: <d858cc51-7e8e-4d04-86fe-feff6872f2cd@googlegroups.com>
References: <cd450cad-fa22-4769-b14b-961a60d98d4c@googlegroups.com>
 <d858cc51-7e8e-4d04-86fe-feff6872f2cd@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <ff225f2b-94ed-4774-9d75-20b2253c5be0@googlegroups.com>

On Monday, 6 April 2015 23:27:54 UTC-4, Sepi Gh  wrote:
> On Monday, 6 April 2015 22:54:26 UTC-4, Sepi  wrote:
> > Hi,
> > 
> > I installed wxpython through command line but when I want to use it, python gives me an error:  File "/Users//Desktop/test.py", line 1, in <module>
> >     import wx
> > ImportError: No module named 'wx'
> > 
> > When I check my python path it is version 3.3 (/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/3.3/) but when I try to install wxpython via python setup.py install --user it installs in /UsersLibrary/Python/2.7/bin/
> > 
> > I don't know how to change this.
> 
> I got the answer! Just using python 3 instead of python in the command line

But I get this error now:  File "/Users//Library/Python/3.3/lib/python/site-packages/wx_py/PyWrap.py", line 27
    print "Please specify a module name."
                                        ^
SyntaxError: invalid syntax


From adm2303.2304 at gmail.com  Mon Apr  6 23:41:20 2015
From: adm2303.2304 at gmail.com (Sepi)
Date: Mon, 6 Apr 2015 20:41:20 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Intstalling wxPything
Message-ID: <ff239e27-975f-4bee-8f8f-07686fc50a47@googlegroups.com>

Hi, 

I installed wxpython through command line but when I want to use it, python gives me an error:  File "/Users//Desktop/test.py", line 1, in <module> 
     import wx 
 ImportError: No module named 'wx' 

When I check my python path it is version 3.3 (/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/3.3/) but when I try to install wxpython via python setup.py install --user it installs in /UsersLibrary/Python/2.7/bin/ 

 I don't know how to change this. 
 
 I got the answer! Just using python 3 instead of python in the command line 

But I get this error now:  File "/Users//Library/Python/3.3/lib/python/site-packages/wx_py/PyWrap.py", line 27 
    print "Please specify a module name." 
                                        ^ 
SyntaxError: invalid syntax 


From ellisd23 at gmail.com  Tue Apr  7 00:13:41 2015
From: ellisd23 at gmail.com (Daniel Ellis)
Date: Mon, 6 Apr 2015 21:13:41 -0700
Subject: Help with pipes, buffering and pseudoterminals
In-Reply-To: <20150406001109.GA1009@cskk.homeip.net>
References: <c9c407e4-4914-4f5d-8ff3-ae1ac083cb82@googlegroups.com>
 <20150406001109.GA1009@cskk.homeip.net>
Message-ID: <CAJGew6=g41cT5QXd51oaVVC5PWCnE5GWYzX5YaqDBwXb0kKUDw@mail.gmail.com>

Wow, thank you for the long and detailed reply.

As for the question ptys and C, no, I have no experience in that area.
I've read a bit on the master/slave stuff, but I'm still finding it
confusing.  The manpage for pty states that it creates a "pair" of virtual
devices, one master and one slave.  It doesn't seem like these are simple
file descriptors for stdin, stdout, and stderr, given that there is only
one for the master and one for the slave, so I'm really not understanding
what it means for these devices to be created.

One way to do that is for "your-program" to open a pty and itself invoke
> "command-generating-output" with its output via the pty, which is why so
> many tutorials suppose a "fork" situation.


Yeah, I'm beginning to realize that.  It's a shame, but I case the use-case
in the end isn't that big of a deal.

Thanks again for the explanation.  I think I'm understanding a bit better
now, or at least understanding why my current means of tackling the problem
won't work.  I'd still very much like to figure out the reading/writing to
the master & slave stuff though.



On Sun, Apr 5, 2015 at 5:11 PM, Cameron Simpson <cs at zip.com.au> wrote:

> On 05Apr2015 12:20, Daniel Ellis <ellisd23 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> I have a small little tool I'd like to make.  It essentially takes piped
>> input, modifies the text in some way, and immediately prints the output.
>> The problem I'm having is that any output I pipe to the program seems to be
>> buffered, removing the desired effect.
>>
>
> That depends on the upstream program; it does the buffering. The pipe
> itself presents received data downstream immediately.
>
> However, as you've seen, almost every program buffers its standard output
> if the output is not a tty; this is automatic in the stdio C library and
> results in more fficient use of I/O.
>
>  From what I understand, I need to somehow have the input be retrieved via
>> a pseudoterminal.
>>
>
> This is a rather gross hack, though sometimes all you can do. While some
> programs have an option to force unbuffered output, most do not. Attaching
> their output to a pty is one way to encourage them to at least line buffer
> their output.
>
> However, you should bear in mind that the reason that programs line buffer
> to a terminal is that they presume they are in an interactive situation
> with a person watching. The program _may_ act differently in other ways as
> well, such as asking question it might not otherwise ask in "batch" mode
> (where it might cautiously not ask and presume "no").
>
> Also, output sent through a pty is subject to the line discipline in the
> terminal; temrinals are funny things with much historical behaviour. At the
> least you pobably want your pty in "raw" mode to avoid all sorts of stuff
> that can be done to your data.
>
>  The problem that I'm having is that most examples on the internet seem to
>> assume I would like to launch a program in a forked pty process, which
>> doesn't really fit my use case.
>>
>
> Indeed not, but not to worry. You don't need to fork.
>
>  I've tried a number of things, but I seem to be unable to get even a
>> basic understanding of how to use the pty module.
>>
>
> Have you every used a pty from C? Do you know how ptys work? (master side,
> slave side, etc).
>
>  Here's a piece of code I whipped up just to try to get a feel for what is
>> going on when I use pty.fork, but it doesn't seem to do what I think it
>> should:
>>
>>    import pty
>>    import os
>>    import sys
>>
>>    pid, fd = pty.fork()
>>    print pid, fd
>>    sys.stdout.flush()
>>    os.read(fd, 1024)
>>
>> This only seems to print from the parent process.
>>
>
> The documentation for pty.fork says:
>
>  Return value is (pid, fd). Note that the child gets pid 0, and the fd is
> invalid.
>
> So the child cannot used "fd". It further says that the child has its
> stdin and stdout attached to the pty, and that the pty is the child's
> controlling terminal (this means it is affected by things like "typing" ^C
> at the pty, etc).
>
>  I read that I need to do the os.read call for the fork to happen.  I've
>> also
>>
> tried printing *after* the os.read call.
>
> Don't try to adapt fork-based tutorials to your needs. Understand ptys
> directly first.
>
>  I realize this does very little to solve my overall goal, but I figure
>> understanding what is going on is probably a worthwhile first step.
>>
>
> What you probably want to use is pty.openpty() instead. No fork. You will
> get back file descriptors for the master and slave sides of the pty. Then
> you can use these with the subprocess module to connect your input program.
> Or, guessing from your opening sentence, you can write a wrapper script
> whose whole purpose is to run a program on a pty.
>
> Regarding terminology: a pseudoterminal (pty) is a device that looks like
> a traditional serial terminal. All terminal emulators like xterm use one,
> and so do other programs presenting a terminal session such as the sshd
> process handling an interactive remote login.
>
> When you call pty.openpty() you are handed two file descriptors: one for
> the master side of the pty and one for the slave side. The slave side is
> the side that looks like a terminal, and is what a typical use would
> connect a child process to. The master side is the other side of the pty.
> When a program writes to the "slave" side, the output is available for read
> on the master side, much like a pipe. When a program writes to the master
> side, the output is available for read on the slave side, _as_ _if_ _typed_
> at the terminal.
>
> A pty is not necessarily going to solve your problem unless you can get
> your input via the pty. From the sounds of it you're in this situation:
>
>  command-generating-output | your-program
>
> such that your input is attached to a pipe, and because
> "command-generating-output" is attached to a pipe it is block buffering its
> output, hence your problem.
>
> You can't undo that situation after the fact.
>
> To solve your problem via a pty you need to contrive to set up
> "command-generating-output" already attached to a pty. One way to do that
> is for "your-program" to open a pty and itself invoke
> "command-generating-output" with its output via the pty, which is why so
> many tutorials suppose a "fork" situation.
>
> One typical away to do that is to pass the "command-generating-output"
> command name and args to your program, eg:
>
>  your-program command-generating-output [args...]
>
> Then your main program can gather that up:
>
>  import sys
>  command_generating_output = sys.argv[1:]
>
> Then you can call pty.openpty(), and then use the slave file descriptor
> with subprocess.Popen to invoke command_generating_output. Thus the
> generating command will be talking to you via a pty instead of a pipe.
>
> Cheers,
> Cameron Simpson <cs at zip.com.au>
>
> It is interesting to think of the great blaze of heaven that we winnow
> down to animal shapes and kitchen tools.        - Don DeLillo
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/attachments/20150406/c20d45a0/attachment.html>

From torriem at gmail.com  Tue Apr  7 01:01:06 2015
From: torriem at gmail.com (Michael Torrie)
Date: Mon, 06 Apr 2015 23:01:06 -0600
Subject: Intsalling wxPython
In-Reply-To: <ff225f2b-94ed-4774-9d75-20b2253c5be0@googlegroups.com>
References: <cd450cad-fa22-4769-b14b-961a60d98d4c@googlegroups.com>
 <d858cc51-7e8e-4d04-86fe-feff6872f2cd@googlegroups.com>
 <ff225f2b-94ed-4774-9d75-20b2253c5be0@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <55236492.2090707@gmail.com>

On 04/06/2015 09:29 PM, Sepi Gh wrote:
>> I got the answer! Just using python 3 instead of python in the command line
> 
> But I get this error now:  File "/Users//Library/Python/3.3/lib/python/site-packages/wx_py/PyWrap.py", line 27
>     print "Please specify a module name."
>                                         ^
> SyntaxError: invalid syntax

wxWidgets does not yet support Python 3, though you can find beta builds
of it:

http://wiki.wxpython.org/ProjectPhoenix




From ian.g.kelly at gmail.com  Tue Apr  7 01:08:02 2015
From: ian.g.kelly at gmail.com (Ian Kelly)
Date: Mon, 6 Apr 2015 23:08:02 -0600
Subject: Intsalling wxPython
In-Reply-To: <ff225f2b-94ed-4774-9d75-20b2253c5be0@googlegroups.com>
References: <cd450cad-fa22-4769-b14b-961a60d98d4c@googlegroups.com>
 <d858cc51-7e8e-4d04-86fe-feff6872f2cd@googlegroups.com>
 <ff225f2b-94ed-4774-9d75-20b2253c5be0@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <CALwzidmxf_J2+x_ypU-1T8EtXY4LBKNOaDmWv3h8Yc+f7-7o9Q@mail.gmail.com>

On Apr 6, 2015 9:31 PM, "Sepi Gh" <adm2303.2304 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> On Monday, 6 April 2015 23:27:54 UTC-4, Sepi Gh  wrote:
> > On Monday, 6 April 2015 22:54:26 UTC-4, Sepi  wrote:
> > > Hi,
> > >
> > > I installed wxpython through command line but when I want to use it,
python gives me an error:  File "/Users//Desktop/test.py", line 1, in
<module>
> > >     import wx
> > > ImportError: No module named 'wx'
> > >
> > > When I check my python path it is version 3.3
(/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/3.3/) but when I try to
install wxpython via python setup.py install --user it installs in
/UsersLibrary/Python/2.7/bin/
> > >
> > > I don't know how to change this.
> >
> > I got the answer! Just using python 3 instead of python in the command
line
>
> But I get this error now:  File
"/Users//Library/Python/3.3/lib/python/site-packages/wx_py/PyWrap.py", line
27
>     print "Please specify a module name."
>                                         ^
> SyntaxError: invalid syntax

wxPython classic doesn't support Python 3. You can try using wxPython
Phoenix which is a complete rewrite that does support Python 3. It doesn't
have a stable release yet, although I hear it's getting close.
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/attachments/20150406/976a3990/attachment.html>

From rahulmr at gmail.com  Tue Apr  7 01:25:59 2015
From: rahulmr at gmail.com (rahulmr at gmail.com)
Date: Mon, 6 Apr 2015 22:25:59 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: webware for python 3
Message-ID: <bf9a52a1-0fde-48ef-b1fe-2a9b586c5011@googlegroups.com>



I have an old project which uses web ware, where i want to convert to latest version 3.4

I am wondering whether any webware is available for python version 3.4. What I am seeing is the webware version 1.1.1 which is old and seems like it is not supporting the version 3.4 as I could see the print is written print abc and no braces.

So how should i approach converting this project which is based on python 2.2.1 ?


From prennix at twitter.com  Tue Apr  7 01:33:52 2015
From: prennix at twitter.com (prennix at twitter.com)
Date: Mon, 6 Apr 2015 22:33:52 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: webware for python 3
In-Reply-To: <bf9a52a1-0fde-48ef-b1fe-2a9b586c5011@googlegroups.com>
References: <bf9a52a1-0fde-48ef-b1fe-2a9b586c5011@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <313b6968-9bcc-4f0b-bf8c-c6285e4fb1e6@googlegroups.com>

https://docs.python.org/2/library/2to3.html 


> So how should i approach converting this project which is based on python 2.2.1 ?



From gregory.j.baker at gmail.com  Tue Apr  7 01:43:56 2015
From: gregory.j.baker at gmail.com (Novocastrian_Nomad)
Date: Mon, 6 Apr 2015 22:43:56 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: webware for python 3
In-Reply-To: <bf9a52a1-0fde-48ef-b1fe-2a9b586c5011@googlegroups.com>
References: <bf9a52a1-0fde-48ef-b1fe-2a9b586c5011@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <c92f0ef5-2c6e-4a80-9102-e986e2103d44@googlegroups.com>

On Monday, April 6, 2015 at 11:26:15 PM UTC-6, rah... at gmail.com wrote:
> I have an old project which uses web ware, where i want to convert to latest version 3.4
> 
> I am wondering whether any webware is available for python version 3.4. What I am seeing is the webware version 1.1.1 which is old and seems like it is not supporting the version 3.4 as I could see the print is written print abc and no braces.
> 
> So how should i approach converting this project which is based on python 2.2.1 ?

Some or all of what you need may already be done.  See http://pythonpaste.org/wareweb/


From cs at zip.com.au  Tue Apr  7 01:48:03 2015
From: cs at zip.com.au (Cameron Simpson)
Date: Tue, 7 Apr 2015 15:48:03 +1000
Subject: Help with pipes, buffering and pseudoterminals
In-Reply-To: <CAJGew6=g41cT5QXd51oaVVC5PWCnE5GWYzX5YaqDBwXb0kKUDw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAJGew6=g41cT5QXd51oaVVC5PWCnE5GWYzX5YaqDBwXb0kKUDw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20150407054803.GA80257@cskk.homeip.net>

On 06Apr2015 21:13, Daniel Ellis <ellisd23 at gmail.com> wrote:
>Wow, thank you for the long and detailed reply.
>
>As for the question ptys and C, no, I have no experience in that area.

No worries. The use is the same in Python.

BTW, you may want a fixed width font; there are some ASCII diagrams in this 
message.

>I've read a bit on the master/slave stuff, but I'm still finding it
>confusing.  The manpage for pty states that it creates a "pair" of virtual
>devices, one master and one slave.  It doesn't seem like these are simple
>file descriptors for stdin, stdout, and stderr, given that there is only
>one for the master and one for the slave, so I'm really not understanding
>what it means for these devices to be created.

The following explaination is long; I do get to master/slave at the bottom. But 
I'm covering stdin/stdout/stderr too.

Think about a serial terminal. On one end there is a computer, with wires to 
the terminal. Since the computer runs UNIX, access to the terminal is done with 
read and write calls. A read returns characters typed at the terminal by a 
person and a write sends characters to the terminal which are displayed to the 
person.

         <--eyes-----
  person             terminal <==cable==> computer
         --fingers-->

If someone is logged in on a physical terminal, on the computer's end there 
will be a program acting on what they type. The UNIX command prompt, the shell, 
is what one would normally get after logging in; for moderns users this is 
often bash.

Terminology Digression:

  When you open() a file (or device) in UNIX you get a file descriptor handed 
  to you; this is a single integer which is essentially an index into the 
  process' array of open files. Index 0 is stdin, 1 stdout, 2 stderr, and other 
  open files get further indices.

  It is important to realise an open() creates, internally, a "file handle", 
  the data structure that tracks use of the file from that specific open() 
  call. It has information like the I/O mode (read/write/append) and the file 
  position (where data lands when you write or where data comes from when you 
  read).

  The file descriptor, the index, points into an array of _references_ to file 
  handles. You can dup() a file descriptor to get another file descriptor i.e.  
  another index; it will refer to the _same_ file handle internally.

  process: fd 0 -> tty handle -> tty device
           fd 1 ---^ ^
           fd 2 -----+

Returning...

The operating system arranges the commection of the shell to the terminal. Your 
usual program has by default a stdin, stdout and stderr. These are _all_ the 
same file handle, duplicated to each of the three file descriptors 0, 1 and 2 
respectively. On the operating system side, the OS has performed _one_ open() 
call on the terminal device and handed the caller a single file descriptor. The 
caller then calls dup() (or modernly, dup2()) to present the open terminal as 
stdin, stdout and stderr.

That file handle is open for read and write, as you might imagine.

If you want to see this, type:

  lsof -p $$

at your shell prompt. Observe fd 0, 1, 2.

Why the duplication? This lets you do redirection! You can attach something 
else to a program's stdout, for example:

  ls > files.txt

without disturbing stdin or stderr. And so forth.

A pty behaves the same way, except that there is no physical device involved.  
There is just an abstraction which behaves like a physical device:

    You see, wire telegraph is a kind of a very, very long cat. You
    pull his tail in New York and his head is meowing in Los Angeles.
    Do you understand this?  And radio operates exactly the same way:
    you send signals here, they receive them there. The only difference
    is that there is no cat.
    - Albert Einstein, when asked to describe radio

The main reason for ptys is that there is a class of programs which present a 
terminal interface to users (xterm, sshd, telnetd, etc).

So, something like xterm _draws_ a GUI representation of a terminal for you to 
look at, and collects keystrokes (as GUI events), converts them into bytes and 
writes them to the pty. For example, it might see "Shift-A-Down" and send code 
65 (capital "A"). Similarly it reads from the pty and draws on the screen.

The shell you use in an xterm is on the other side of the pty. The code 65 the 
xterm sent above is seen read as code 65 by the shell and treated as a typed 
"A".

In this scenario, effectively the xterm is a server to the shell: it is 
responsible for accepting things from the shell and displaying them, and 
providing typed GUI events to the shell as input bytes. It also sets the 
initial terminal modes and attaches the shell to the pty.

Correspondingly, when xterm opened a pty for its work the two file descriptors 
it gets are "master" and "slave" file descriptors.

The master is kept by xterm and used to read shell output and write to the 
shell's input.

The slave is used to set up the shell. The basic scheme is that the xterm 
forks. The child xterm instance closes all file descriptors _except_ the slave 
descriptor, and then dup()s that descriptor to fd 0, 1 and 2, providing stdin, 
stdout and stderr. And the pty is made the child's controlling terminal.

When the (parent) xterm writes to the master descriptor those data appear for 
read on the slave file descriptor. Conversely, when the shell writes to its 
output (the slave file descriptor) it appears for read on the master descriptor 
(for the xterm to read and display).

So the slave descriptor _is_ a perfectly ordinary file descriptor.

Feel free to ask further questions. I'm sure my rambling must occasion some.

Cheers,
Cameron Simpson <cs at zip.com.au>

From a programmer's point of view, the user is a peripheral that types when you 
issue a read request.  - Peter Williams


From jonas.thornvall at gmail.com  Tue Apr  7 05:44:24 2015
From: jonas.thornvall at gmail.com (jonas.thornvall at gmail.com)
Date: Tue, 7 Apr 2015 02:44:24 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Best search algorithm to find condition within a range
Message-ID: <2e3a3c01-20b3-4948-9b32-bd80ed46822b@googlegroups.com>



I want todo faster baseconversion for very big bases like base 1 000 000, so instead of adding up digits i search it. 

I need the fastest algorithm to find the relation to a decimal number. 
Digmult is an instance of base at a digitplace (base^x) what i try to find is the digit for the below condition is true and the loop break. 


********************************* 
for (digit=0;digit<=base;digit++) { 
       if((digit+1)*digmult>decNumber)break; 
} 
********************************* 

So i am looking for the digit where following condition true. 

if((digit)*digmult<decNumber) AND if((digit+1)*digmult>decNumber) then BREAK; 

One could start at half base searching, but then i Think i've read that using 1/3 closing in faster? 

I Think also i remember that if the search space so big that at least 22 or 23 guesses, needed.A random Oracle may even faster? 

Just pick up a number and get lucky, is it any truth to that? 

Below the actual algorithm. 



<SCRIPT LANGUAGE="Javascript"> 
//CONVERT A DECIMAL NUMBER INTO ANYBASE 
function newbase(decNumber,base){ 
digits=1; 
digmult=1; 
while(digmult*base<=decNumber){ 
        digmult=digmult*base 
        digits++; 
} 
digsave=digmult; 
while(decNumber>0 || digits>0){ 
        loop=1; 
        digit=0; 
               for (digit=0;digit<=base;digit++) { 
        if((digit+1)*digmult>decNumber)break; 
               } 
        out[digits]=digit; 
        digmult=digmult*digit; 
        decNumber=decNumber-digmult; 
        digsave=digsave/base; 
        digmult=digsave; 
        digits--; 
        } 
return out; 
} 

var out= []; 
base=256; 
number=854544; 
out=newbase(number,base); 
out.reverse(); 
document.write("Number = ",out,"<BR>"); 
</script> 

 












 


From rosuav at gmail.com  Tue Apr  7 06:38:00 2015
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Tue, 7 Apr 2015 20:38:00 +1000
Subject: Help with pipes, buffering and pseudoterminals
In-Reply-To: <20150407054803.GA80257@cskk.homeip.net>
References: <CAJGew6=g41cT5QXd51oaVVC5PWCnE5GWYzX5YaqDBwXb0kKUDw@mail.gmail.com>
 <20150407054803.GA80257@cskk.homeip.net>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmoQQ_4-hONHyEw9QTj-UbMN8yJpMOkEfRwFvAZeyiX8Aw@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Apr 7, 2015 at 3:48 PM, Cameron Simpson <cs at zip.com.au> wrote:
> The operating system arranges the commection of the shell to the terminal.
> Your usual program has by default a stdin, stdout and stderr. These are
> _all_ the same file handle, duplicated to each of the three file descriptors
> 0, 1 and 2 respectively. On the operating system side, the OS has performed
> _one_ open() call on the terminal device and handed the caller a single file
> descriptor. The caller then calls dup() (or modernly, dup2()) to present the
> open terminal as stdin, stdout and stderr.

Really? I can believe that stdout and stderr are initially duplicates,
but stdin as well? Isn't stdin opened for reading only, and
stdout/stderr for writing only?

I grew up on DOS and OS/2, not on Unix, so maybe there's a massive
simplification here that I'm not aware of. That'd be pretty clean and
tidy if what you say is the case!

ChrisA


From felix at epepm.cupet.cu  Tue Apr  7 08:11:42 2015
From: felix at epepm.cupet.cu (felix)
Date: Tue, 07 Apr 2015 08:11:42 -0400
Subject: Trying to hire or grow a Python developer for a 2 year contract
In-Reply-To: <c920fff472d3235620b2ef755d40e896@peterrowley.com>
References: <c920fff472d3235620b2ef755d40e896@peterrowley.com>
Message-ID: <5523C97E.3050802@epepm.cupet.cu>

El 05/04/15 13:28, Peter Rowley escribi?:
>
>  Hi,
>
> I'm at York University in Toronto, Canada.  We have a large 
> Python-and-Oracle web application written with Pyramids and YUI that 
> we use to manage the staffing of courses at York and are looking for 
> an intermediate or senior developer for a 2 year contract to work on 
> extensions to the application.  If you are interested or know of 
> someone who would be, please e-mail me at prowley at yorku.ca.  The 
> salary is approximately $75,000 a year and benefits are excellent.
>
> We have been looking for someone for this position for a while and are 
> starting to think about hiring someone who has good programming skills 
> but not necessarily Python.  To that end, if you're a Python developer 
> or hire them, I'd be interested in your opinion of which common 
> programming languages that people might know would enable learning 
> Python?  I'm guessing PHP for the dynamic language concepts and Java 
> for the structure, but that's not based on much evidence.
>
Nice job!
It makes me realize that studying Python is not just fun but also an 
opportunity to get paid!
Bad for me because I'm just a beginner. I started with Python and Django 
a year ago! ;)

I read the basic concepts of several languages when I was a student: 
Basic, Pascal, C, Assembly language for x86 processor, then some basic 
concepts of OOP, then PHP and I found Python is so natural and easy to 
start with as they say in tutorials.

I'm sure you will find someone soon, Mr. Rowley.
Good luck!!!
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/attachments/20150407/103b6e3c/attachment.html>

From davea at davea.name  Tue Apr  7 09:29:59 2015
From: davea at davea.name (Dave Angel)
Date: Tue, 07 Apr 2015 09:29:59 -0400
Subject: Best search algorithm to find condition within a range
In-Reply-To: <2e3a3c01-20b3-4948-9b32-bd80ed46822b@googlegroups.com>
References: <2e3a3c01-20b3-4948-9b32-bd80ed46822b@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <5523DBD7.6050709@davea.name>

On 04/07/2015 05:44 AM, jonas.thornvall at gmail.com wrote:
>
>
> I want todo faster baseconversion for very big bases like base 1 000 000, so instead of adding up digits i search it.

For this and most of the following statements:  I can almost guess what 
you're trying to say.  However, I cannot.  No idea why you're adding up 
digits, that sounds like casting out nines.  And in base-N, that would 
be casting out (N-1)'s.

What's the it you're trying to search?

How do you know the baseconversion is the bottleneck, if you haven't 
written any Python code yet?


>
> I need the fastest algorithm to find the relation to a decimal number.

What relation would that be?  Between what and what?

> Digmult is an instance of base at a digitplace (base^x) what i try to find is the digit for the below condition is true and the loop break.
>

You haven't defined a class "Base" yet.  In fact, I don't see any Python 
code in the whole message.

>
> *********************************
> for (digit=0;digit<=base;digit++) {
>         if((digit+1)*digmult>decNumber)break;
> }
> *********************************


>
> So i am looking for the digit where following condition true.
>
> if((digit)*digmult<decNumber) AND if((digit+1)*digmult>decNumber) then BREAK;

You could try integer divide.  That's just something like
      digit = decNumber // digmult
But if you think hard enough you'd realize that


>
> One could start at half base searching, but then i Think i've read that using 1/3 closing in faster?
>
> I Think also i remember that if the search space so big that at least 22 or 23 guesses, needed.A random Oracle may even faster?
>
> Just pick up a number and get lucky, is it any truth to that?
>
> Below the actual algorithm.
>
>
>
> <SCRIPT LANGUAGE="Javascript">
> //CONVERT A DECIMAL NUMBER INTO ANYBASE
> function newbase(decNumber,base){
> digits=1;
> digmult=1;
> while(digmult*base<=decNumber){
>          digmult=digmult*base
>          digits++;
> }
> digsave=digmult;
> while(decNumber>0 || digits>0){
>          loop=1;
>          digit=0;
>                 for (digit=0;digit<=base;digit++) {
>          if((digit+1)*digmult>decNumber)break;
>                 }
>          out[digits]=digit;
>          digmult=digmult*digit;
>          decNumber=decNumber-digmult;
>          digsave=digsave/base;
>          digmult=digsave;
>          digits--;
>          }
> return out;
> }
>
> var out= [];
> base=256;
> number=854544;
> out=newbase(number,base);
> out.reverse();
> document.write("Number = ",out,"<BR>");
> </script>
>

If that code were in Python, I could be more motivated to critique it. 
The whole algorithm could be much simpler.  But perhaps there is some 
limitation of javascript that's crippling the code.

How would you do it if you were converting the base by hand?  I 
certainly wouldn't be doing any trial and error.  For each pass, I'd 
calculate quotient and remainder, where remainder is the digit, and 
quotient is the next value you work on.


-- 
DaveA


From jonas.thornvall at gmail.com  Tue Apr  7 10:10:49 2015
From: jonas.thornvall at gmail.com (jonas.thornvall at gmail.com)
Date: Tue, 7 Apr 2015 07:10:49 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Best search algorithm to find condition within a range
In-Reply-To: <mailman.89.1428413413.12925.python-list@python.org>
References: <2e3a3c01-20b3-4948-9b32-bd80ed46822b@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.89.1428413413.12925.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <2d885c21-95c9-4ea1-b82e-d5420d886c8b@googlegroups.com>

Den tisdag 7 april 2015 kl. 15:30:36 UTC+2 skrev Dave Angel:
> On 04/07/2015 05:44 AM, jonas.thornvall at gmail.com wrote:
> >
> >
> > I want todo faster baseconversion for very big bases like base 1 000 000, so instead of adding up digits i search it.
> 
> For this and most of the following statements:  I can almost guess what 
> you're trying to say.  However, I cannot.  No idea why you're adding up 
> digits, that sounds like casting out nines.  And in base-N, that would 
> be casting out (N-1)'s.
> 
> What's the it you're trying to search?
> 
> How do you know the baseconversion is the bottleneck, if you haven't 
> written any Python code yet?
> 
> 
> >
> > I need the fastest algorithm to find the relation to a decimal number.
> 
> What relation would that be?  Between what and what?
> 
> > Digmult is an instance of base at a digitplace (base^x) what i try to find is the digit for the below condition is true and the loop break.
> >
> 
> You haven't defined a class "Base" yet.  In fact, I don't see any Python 
> code in the whole message.
> 
> >
> > *********************************
> > for (digit=0;digit<=base;digit++) {
> >         if((digit+1)*digmult>decNumber)break;
> > }
> > *********************************
> 
> 
> >
> > So i am looking for the digit where following condition true.
> >
> > if((digit)*digmult<decNumber) AND if((digit+1)*digmult>decNumber) then BREAK;
> 
> You could try integer divide.  That's just something like
>       digit = decNumber // digmult
> But if you think hard enough you'd realize that
> 
> 
> >
> > One could start at half base searching, but then i Think i've read that using 1/3 closing in faster?
> >
> > I Think also i remember that if the search space so big that at least 22 or 23 guesses, needed.A random Oracle may even faster?
> >
> > Just pick up a number and get lucky, is it any truth to that?
> >
> > Below the actual algorithm.
> >
> >
> >
> > <SCRIPT LANGUAGE="Javascript">
> > //CONVERT A DECIMAL NUMBER INTO ANYBASE
> > function newbase(decNumber,base){
> > digits=1;
> > digmult=1;
> > while(digmult*base<=decNumber){
> >          digmult=digmult*base
> >          digits++;
> > }
> > digsave=digmult;
> > while(decNumber>0 || digits>0){
> >          loop=1;
> >          digit=0;
> >                 for (digit=0;digit<=base;digit++) {
> >          if((digit+1)*digmult>decNumber)break;
> >                 }
> >          out[digits]=digit;
> >          digmult=digmult*digit;
> >          decNumber=decNumber-digmult;
> >          digsave=digsave/base;
> >          digmult=digsave;
> >          digits--;
> >          }
> > return out;
> > }
> >
> > var out= [];
> > base=256;
> > number=854544;
> > out=newbase(number,base);
> > out.reverse();
> > document.write("Number = ",out,"<BR>");
> > </script>
> >
> 
> If that code were in Python, I could be more motivated to critique it. 
> The whole algorithm could be much simpler.  But perhaps there is some 
> limitation of javascript that's crippling the code.
> 
> How would you do it if you were converting the base by hand?  I 
> certainly wouldn't be doing any trial and error.  For each pass, I'd 
> calculate quotient and remainder, where remainder is the digit, and 
> quotient is the next value you work on.
> 
> 
> -- 
> DaveA

I am doing it just like i would do it by hand finding the biggest digit first. To do that i need to know nearest base^exp that is less than the actual number. Add up the digit (multiply) it to the nearest smaller multiple. Subtract that number (base^exp*multiple). 

Divide / Scale down the exponent with base. And record the digit.
And start looking for next digit doing same manipulation until remainder = 0.

And that is what i am doing.


From shrivastavkhyati at gmail.com  Tue Apr  7 10:15:21 2015
From: shrivastavkhyati at gmail.com (Khyati)
Date: Tue, 7 Apr 2015 07:15:21 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Python library - WMI.py RegistryValueChangeEvent
In-Reply-To: <mailman.74.1428364205.12925.python-list@python.org>
References: <02021a54-2770-4072-808a-75bea346051d@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.74.1428364205.12925.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <5b5fd1cb-484f-4798-b10c-4903ad7aa65c@googlegroups.com>

Thanks for taking a look, Chris.
The error trace:
traceback (most recent call last):
 File "MonitorRegistry.py", line 18, in <module>
   process_created = watcher()
 File "C:\Python27\lib\site-packages\wmi.py", line 1195, in __call__
   handle_com_error ()
 File "C:\Python27\lib\site-packages\wmi.py", line 241, in handle_com_error
   raise klass (com_error=err)
_wmi: <x_wmi: Unexpected COM Error (-2147352567, 'Exception occurred.', (0, u'SWbemPropertySet', u'Not found ', None, 0, -2147217406), None)>

when I debugged this is the module that throws the exception:
wmi.py [Line 1178-1195]
 def __call__ (self, timeout_ms=-1):
    """When called, return the instance which caused the event. Supports
     timeout in milliseconds (defaulting to infinite). If the watcher
     times out, :exc:`x_wmi_timed_out` is raised. This makes it easy to support
     watching for multiple objects.
    """
    try:
      event = self.wmi_event.NextEvent (timeout_ms)
      if self.is_extrinsic:
        return _wmi_event (event, None, self.fields)
      else:
        return _wmi_event (
          event.Properties_ ("TargetInstance").Value,
          _wmi_object (event, property_map=self._event_property_map),
          self.fields
        )
    except pywintypes.com_error:
      handle_com_error ()

self.is_extrinsic returns false and event.Properties_("TargetInstance").Value throws the exception

Here is the entire(minimal) code:
import wmi
import _winreg
c = wmi.WMI ()
raw_wql = "SELECT * FROM RegistryValueChangeEvent WHERE Hive='HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE' AND KeyPath='Software\\\\Temp' AND ValueName='Name'"
print raw_wql
watcher = c.watch_for(raw_wql=raw_wql,wmi_class = "__ExtrinsicEvent")
while True:
  try:
	process_created = watcher()
	print 'value changed'


I have already emailed - Tim Golden <mail at timgolden.me.uk>
Any other group that I can reach to?


Thanks
Khyati

On Monday, April 6, 2015 at 7:50:37 PM UTC-4, Chris Angelico wrote:
> On Tue, Apr 7, 2015 at 8:02 AM, Khyati <shrivastavkhyati at gmail.com> wrote:
> > I have a question about RegistryValueChangeEvent that I have not been able to find an answer to on the internet so far. I would appreciate any help since I have already spent a lot of time finding any material that explains this:
> >
> > What I am trying to do:
> > - create an event when a value for a registry key changes
> 
> Thanks for being clear about this part! Unfortunately, there are a few
> other parts that aren't clear yet, so hopefully you can expand on your
> question a bit.
> 
> > How I am doing it:
> >>raw_wql = "SELECT * FROM RegistryValueChangeEvent WHERE Hive='HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE' AND KeyPath='Software\\\\Temp' AND ValueName='Name\'"
> 
> Tip: Try adding "print(raw_wql)" just underneath this line, to see if
> you're getting back what you really want. The backslash at the end of
> ValueName is not currently doing anything.
> 
> >>watcher = c.watch_for(raw_wql=raw_wql,wmi_class = "__ExtrinsicEvent")
> >>while TRUE:
> >>    process_created = watcher()
> 
> This code isn't complete. Can you post a complete (and minimal)
> example piece of code?
> 
> > Problem:
> > the _wmi_event object returned is not coming back as Extrinsic event -
> > So, in wmi.py, in class _wmi_watcher:
> >    "self.is_extrinsic" returns false and I get an exception from the else part - [line 1186 - 1195]
> 
> It'd help hugely if you could post the entire traceback here - what
> exception you're getting, and the exact lines that produce it.
> 
> > What I need
> > - Any reference/idea/explanation on => why does RegistryValueChangeEvent returns as a Non-Extrinsic  event? even though it has been derived from __ExtrinsicEvent
> >
> > Other information:
> > Running on Windows 8 64 Bit
> >>>> platform.machine()
> > 'AMD64'
> >>>> platform.architecture()
> > ('64bit', 'WindowsPE')
> >>>> platform.python_version()
> > '2.7.8'
> >>>> platform.python_implementation()
> > 'CPython'
> >
> > Using WMI-1.4.9.win32 - downloaded via PIP
> > pywin32-219.win-amd64-py2.7
> 
> Just for reference, this is a general Python discussion list. Lots of
> us won't know specific libraries, so all we can offer is fairly
> general information. If you can't get the help you need here, you may
> do better to look for more specific help about this module.
> 
> All the best!
> 
> ChrisA


From davea at davea.name  Tue Apr  7 10:26:48 2015
From: davea at davea.name (Dave Angel)
Date: Tue, 07 Apr 2015 10:26:48 -0400
Subject: Best search algorithm to find condition within a range
In-Reply-To: <2d885c21-95c9-4ea1-b82e-d5420d886c8b@googlegroups.com>
References: <2e3a3c01-20b3-4948-9b32-bd80ed46822b@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.89.1428413413.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <2d885c21-95c9-4ea1-b82e-d5420d886c8b@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <5523E928.6030306@davea.name>

On 04/07/2015 10:10 AM, jonas.thornvall at gmail.com wrote:
> Den tisdag 7 april 2015 kl. 15:30:36 UTC+2 skrev Dave Angel:

    <snip>
>>
>> If that code were in Python, I could be more motivated to critique it.
>> The whole algorithm could be much simpler.  But perhaps there is some
>> limitation of javascript that's crippling the code.
>>
>> How would you do it if you were converting the base by hand?  I
>> certainly wouldn't be doing any trial and error.  For each pass, I'd
>> calculate quotient and remainder, where remainder is the digit, and
>> quotient is the next value you work on.
>>
>>
>> --
>> DaveA
>
> I am doing it just like i would do it by hand finding the biggest digit first. To do that i need to know nearest base^exp that is less than the actual number. Add up the digit (multiply) it to the nearest smaller multiple. Subtract that number (base^exp*multiple).
>
> Divide / Scale down the exponent with base. And record the digit.
> And start looking for next digit doing same manipulation until remainder = 0.
>
> And that is what i am doing.
>

Then I don't know why you do the call to reverse() in the top-level code.

If I were doing it, I'd have no trial and error in the code at all. 
Generate the digits right to left, then reverse them before returning.

For example, if you want to convert 378 to base 10 (it's binary 
internally), you'd divide by 10 to get 37, remainder 8.  Save the 8, and 
loop again.  Divide 37 by 10 and get 3, remainder 7.  Save the 7. Divide 
again by 10 and get 0, remainder 3.  Save the 3

Now you have '8', '7', '3'   So you reverse the list, and get
      '3', '7', '8'



-- 
DaveA


From denismfmcmahon at gmail.com  Tue Apr  7 10:29:08 2015
From: denismfmcmahon at gmail.com (Denis McMahon)
Date: Tue, 7 Apr 2015 14:29:08 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Best search algorithm to find condition within a range
References: <2e3a3c01-20b3-4948-9b32-bd80ed46822b@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.89.1428413413.12925.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <mg0pjk$8qs$2@dont-email.me>

On Tue, 07 Apr 2015 09:29:59 -0400, Dave Angel wrote:

> On 04/07/2015 05:44 AM, jonas.thornvall at gmail.com wrote:

>> I want todo faster baseconversion for very big bases like base 1 000
>> 000, so instead of adding up digits i search it.

> How do you know the baseconversion is the bottleneck, if you haven't
> written any Python code yet?

He doesn't. He doesn't comprehend that as far as a computer is concerned 
an integer has no specific 'base', it's only when presented in a form for 
humans to read that it gets base information added in the representation.

He's making these and other similar errors in the javascript groups too.

I suspect he's one of those people that spends his time thinking up 
elaborate solutions that he has no idea how to implement as a response to 
dreamt up non existent problems.

-- 
Denis McMahon, denismfmcmahon at gmail.com


From rosuav at gmail.com  Tue Apr  7 10:31:11 2015
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Wed, 8 Apr 2015 00:31:11 +1000
Subject: Python library - WMI.py RegistryValueChangeEvent
In-Reply-To: <5b5fd1cb-484f-4798-b10c-4903ad7aa65c@googlegroups.com>
References: <02021a54-2770-4072-808a-75bea346051d@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.74.1428364205.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <5b5fd1cb-484f-4798-b10c-4903ad7aa65c@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmos__VaAB4-A92MYZO-UERYWSC9_47avQwuG+5FykqRdw@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Apr 8, 2015 at 12:15 AM, Khyati <shrivastavkhyati at gmail.com> wrote:
> Thanks for taking a look, Chris.
> The error trace:
> traceback (most recent call last):
>  File "MonitorRegistry.py", line 18, in <module>
>    process_created = watcher()
>  File "C:\Python27\lib\site-packages\wmi.py", line 1195, in __call__
>    handle_com_error ()
>  File "C:\Python27\lib\site-packages\wmi.py", line 241, in handle_com_error
>    raise klass (com_error=err)
> _wmi: <x_wmi: Unexpected COM Error (-2147352567, 'Exception occurred.', (0, u'SWbemPropertySet', u'Not found ', None, 0, -2147217406), None)>

It looks to me like this is a thin wrapper around the underlying API
call, and you're getting back an error from the lower-level services.
The way this reads, there might well not be an
HKLM\Software\Temp\Name; maybe the ValueName is what's wrong here?

Someone somewhere knows more than I do, but if you can't find that
someone here on python-list, you might be able to find some help on
Stack Overflow or another mailing list, from people who know how to do
this kind of thing in a different language. You'd have to translate
their suggestions back into Python, but when the wrappers are thin
enough, that's usually not too hard.

ChrisA


From ian.g.kelly at gmail.com  Tue Apr  7 10:32:01 2015
From: ian.g.kelly at gmail.com (Ian Kelly)
Date: Tue, 7 Apr 2015 08:32:01 -0600
Subject: Best search algorithm to find condition within a range
In-Reply-To: <2e3a3c01-20b3-4948-9b32-bd80ed46822b@googlegroups.com>
References: <2e3a3c01-20b3-4948-9b32-bd80ed46822b@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <CALwzidn0tNcBtAuv7tUvdWUn42VZ=PurfSb1=EvVNaRv1Gz-3g@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Apr 7, 2015 at 3:44 AM,  <jonas.thornvall at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> I want todo faster baseconversion for very big bases like base 1 000 000, so instead of adding up digits i search it.
>
> I need the fastest algorithm to find the relation to a decimal number.
> Digmult is an instance of base at a digitplace (base^x) what i try to find is the digit for the below condition is true and the loop break.
>
>
> *********************************
> for (digit=0;digit<=base;digit++) {
>        if((digit+1)*digmult>decNumber)break;
> }
> *********************************
>
> So i am looking for the digit where following condition true.
>
> if((digit)*digmult<decNumber) AND if((digit+1)*digmult>decNumber) then BREAK;

I'm not sure that I understand what it is that you're trying to
accomplish. Are you trying to find the digits without using division
because "division is slow"? If that's the case, then let me show you
something.

$ python -m timeit -s "n = 1523837293" "n // 1000000"
1000000 loops, best of 3: 0.286 usec per loop

$ python -m timeit -s "n = 1523" "n * 1000000; (n+1) * 1000000"
1000000 loops, best of 3: 0.455 usec per loop

In Python, one addition and two multiplications are already slower
than a single division. The only way you're going to beat division by
using trial multiplication is if the first digit that you try is
always correct. To do that, you would need an oracle feeding your
search algorithm, and then you might as well just use the oracle.

> One could start at half base searching, but then i Think i've read that using 1/3 closing in faster?

Do you mean binary search? That would be an improvement over the
linear search algorithm you've shown. Whether a trinary search might
be faster would depend on the distribution of the numbers you expect.
If they're evenly distributed, it will be slower.

> I Think also i remember that if the search space so big that at least 22 or 23 guesses, needed.A random Oracle may even faster?
>
> Just pick up a number and get lucky, is it any truth to that?

On average, a random Oracle with a search space of 1000000 will need
1000000 guesses.


From rosuav at gmail.com  Tue Apr  7 10:34:31 2015
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Wed, 8 Apr 2015 00:34:31 +1000
Subject: Best search algorithm to find condition within a range
In-Reply-To: <5523E928.6030306@davea.name>
References: <2e3a3c01-20b3-4948-9b32-bd80ed46822b@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.89.1428413413.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <2d885c21-95c9-4ea1-b82e-d5420d886c8b@googlegroups.com>
 <5523E928.6030306@davea.name>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmqzvhXD0kzAmZ=jRGvmLpTkF9jeDG-p2D=s-z8yGeYe4A@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Apr 8, 2015 at 12:26 AM, Dave Angel <davea at davea.name> wrote:
> For example, if you want to convert 378 to base 10 (it's binary internally),
> you'd divide by 10 to get 37, remainder 8.  Save the 8, and loop again.
> Divide 37 by 10 and get 3, remainder 7.  Save the 7. Divide again by 10 and
> get 0, remainder 3.  Save the 3
>
> Now you have '8', '7', '3'   So you reverse the list, and get
>      '3', '7', '8'

Technically, it doesn't matter that it's stored in binary. All that
matters is that it's stored in some way that you can perform division
on. I used to do this kind of thing in assembly language, pushing
digits onto the stack, then popping them off afterward. (It's actually
easier to make a column of numbers right-justified, as you can simply
create a buffer of the right size - assuming you're working with a
machine word and can know the maximum size - and populate it from the
far end.) But yes, this is the standard way to do base conversions.

ChrisA


From shrivastavkhyati at gmail.com  Tue Apr  7 10:35:33 2015
From: shrivastavkhyati at gmail.com (Khyati)
Date: Tue, 7 Apr 2015 07:35:33 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Python library - WMI.py RegistryValueChangeEvent
In-Reply-To: <mailman.92.1428417080.12925.python-list@python.org>
References: <02021a54-2770-4072-808a-75bea346051d@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.74.1428364205.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <5b5fd1cb-484f-4798-b10c-4903ad7aa65c@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.92.1428417080.12925.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <82e021c9-d375-454f-8a01-c21305e36e6f@googlegroups.com>

On Tuesday, April 7, 2015 at 10:31:47 AM UTC-4, Chris Angelico wrote:
> On Wed, Apr 8, 2015 at 12:15 AM, Khyati wrote:
> > Thanks for taking a look, Chris.
> > The error trace:
> > traceback (most recent call last):
> >  File "MonitorRegistry.py", line 18, in <module>
> >    process_created = watcher()
> >  File "C:\Python27\lib\site-packages\wmi.py", line 1195, in __call__
> >    handle_com_error ()
> >  File "C:\Python27\lib\site-packages\wmi.py", line 241, in handle_com_error
> >    raise klass (com_error=err)
> > _wmi: <x_wmi: Unexpected COM Error (-2147352567, 'Exception occurred.', (0, u'SWbemPropertySet', u'Not found ', None, 0, -2147217406), None)>
> 
> It looks to me like this is a thin wrapper around the underlying API
> call, and you're getting back an error from the lower-level services.
> The way this reads, there might well not be an
> HKLM\Software\Temp\Name; maybe the ValueName is what's wrong here?
> 
> Someone somewhere knows more than I do, but if you can't find that
> someone here on python-list, you might be able to find some help on
> Stack Overflow or another mailing list, from people who know how to do
> this kind of thing in a different language. You'd have to translate
> their suggestions back into Python, but when the wrappers are thin
> enough, that's usually not too hard.
> 
> ChrisA

HKLM\Software\Temp\Name exists since the event is caught correctly only when I change that key.
i'll keep looking :)


From jonas.thornvall at gmail.com  Tue Apr  7 10:36:19 2015
From: jonas.thornvall at gmail.com (jonas.thornvall at gmail.com)
Date: Tue, 7 Apr 2015 07:36:19 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Best search algorithm to find condition within a range
In-Reply-To: <mg0pjk$8qs$2@dont-email.me>
References: <2e3a3c01-20b3-4948-9b32-bd80ed46822b@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.89.1428413413.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <mg0pjk$8qs$2@dont-email.me>
Message-ID: <fd544688-5e9c-418e-9ca9-11b9bcb83186@googlegroups.com>

Den tisdag 7 april 2015 kl. 16:30:15 UTC+2 skrev Denis McMahon:
> On Tue, 07 Apr 2015 09:29:59 -0400, Dave Angel wrote:
> 
> > On 04/07/2015 05:44 AM, jonas.thornvall at gmail.com wrote:
> 
> >> I want todo faster baseconversion for very big bases like base 1 000
> >> 000, so instead of adding up digits i search it.
> 
> > How do you know the baseconversion is the bottleneck, if you haven't
> > written any Python code yet?
> 
> He doesn't. He doesn't comprehend that as far as a computer is concerned 
> an integer has no specific 'base', it's only when presented in a form for 
> humans to read that it gets base information added in the representation.
> 
> He's making these and other similar errors in the javascript groups too.
> 
> I suspect he's one of those people that spends his time thinking up 
> elaborate solutions that he has no idea how to implement as a response to 
> dreamt up non existent problems.
> 
> -- 
> Denis McMahon, denismfmcmahon at gmail.com

Bullshit declare two integers in any language one 7 and one 4 and then write x=7+4; if you find a programming language where that does not yield 11 tell me.

Integers are internally assumed to be base 10 otherwise you could not calculate without giving the base.

All operations on integers addition, subtraction, multiplication and division assume base 10.


From rosuav at gmail.com  Tue Apr  7 10:49:03 2015
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Wed, 8 Apr 2015 00:49:03 +1000
Subject: Best search algorithm to find condition within a range
In-Reply-To: <fd544688-5e9c-418e-9ca9-11b9bcb83186@googlegroups.com>
References: <2e3a3c01-20b3-4948-9b32-bd80ed46822b@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.89.1428413413.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <mg0pjk$8qs$2@dont-email.me>
 <fd544688-5e9c-418e-9ca9-11b9bcb83186@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmoOqjfRf7tCadkJtRW_79CyYtbHWXaaoCT0xSTgdaLmFQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Apr 8, 2015 at 12:36 AM,  <jonas.thornvall at gmail.com> wrote:
> Bullshit declare two integers in any language one 7 and one 4 and then write x=7+4; if you find a programming language where that does not yield 11 tell me.
>
> Integers are internally assumed to be base 10 otherwise you could not calculate without giving the base.
>
> All operations on integers addition, subtraction, multiplication and division assume base 10.

You misunderstand how computers and programming languages work. What
you're seeing there is that *integer literals* are usually in base 10;
and actually, I can point to plenty of assembly languages where the
default isn't base 10 (it's usually base 16 (hexadecimal) on IBM PCs,
and probably base 8 (octal) on big iron). This is nothing to do with
the internal representation, and all to do with source code.

ChrisA


From mail at timgolden.me.uk  Tue Apr  7 10:52:43 2015
From: mail at timgolden.me.uk (Tim Golden)
Date: Tue, 07 Apr 2015 15:52:43 +0100
Subject: Python library - WMI.py RegistryValueChangeEvent
In-Reply-To: <82e021c9-d375-454f-8a01-c21305e36e6f@googlegroups.com>
References: <02021a54-2770-4072-808a-75bea346051d@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.74.1428364205.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <5b5fd1cb-484f-4798-b10c-4903ad7aa65c@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.92.1428417080.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <82e021c9-d375-454f-8a01-c21305e36e6f@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <5523EF3B.6060705@timgolden.me.uk>

On 07/04/2015 15:35, Khyati wrote:
> On Tuesday, April 7, 2015 at 10:31:47 AM UTC-4, Chris Angelico wrote:
>> On Wed, Apr 8, 2015 at 12:15 AM, Khyati wrote:
>>> Thanks for taking a look, Chris.
>>> The error trace:
>>> traceback (most recent call last):
>>>  File "MonitorRegistry.py", line 18, in <module>
>>>    process_created = watcher()
>>>  File "C:\Python27\lib\site-packages\wmi.py", line 1195, in __call__
>>>    handle_com_error ()
>>>  File "C:\Python27\lib\site-packages\wmi.py", line 241, in handle_com_error
>>>    raise klass (com_error=err)
>>> _wmi: <x_wmi: Unexpected COM Error (-2147352567, 'Exception occurred.', (0, u'SWbemPropertySet', u'Not found ', None, 0, -2147217406), None)>
>>
>> It looks to me like this is a thin wrapper around the underlying API
>> call, and you're getting back an error from the lower-level services.
>> The way this reads, there might well not be an
>> HKLM\Software\Temp\Name; maybe the ValueName is what's wrong here?
>>
>> Someone somewhere knows more than I do, but if you can't find that
>> someone here on python-list, you might be able to find some help on
>> Stack Overflow or another mailing list, from people who know how to do
>> this kind of thing in a different language. You'd have to translate
>> their suggestions back into Python, but when the wrappers are thin
>> enough, that's usually not too hard.
>>
>> ChrisA
> 
> HKLM\Software\Temp\Name exists since the event is caught correctly only when I change that key.
> i'll keep looking :)
> 

Hi, Khyati.

Unfortunately, extrinsic events don't come with much information. As you
can see from the MSDN description:

https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/aa390355%28v=vs.85%29.aspx

they're not linked to WMI objects internally (which the intrinsic events
are) so all they can do is echo back to you details of what changed --
which will usually be the thing you were asking about in the first place!

So the Python wrapper doesn't receive any TargetInstance because it's
not a *WMI* event as such, linked to a WMI object; rather, it's an
external event which has provided a hook for WMI to hang on to.

In this specific case, you could use the WMI Registry provider to pick
up the current value of that registry value, but that wouldn't tell you
what was there before or anything else. In another case, the event might
be about some entirely external system -- such as the
SecurityViolationEvent in the MSDN example -- which provides no WMI
interface beyond the event itself.

Feel free to ask more, either on this list or on the win32-specific
Python list:

https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-win32

(I'm not often free to answer questions so best to use the public forums
where more people will be able to help).

TJG




From python at mrabarnett.plus.com  Tue Apr  7 11:00:15 2015
From: python at mrabarnett.plus.com (MRAB)
Date: Tue, 07 Apr 2015 16:00:15 +0100
Subject: Best search algorithm to find condition within a range
In-Reply-To: <fd544688-5e9c-418e-9ca9-11b9bcb83186@googlegroups.com>
References: <2e3a3c01-20b3-4948-9b32-bd80ed46822b@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.89.1428413413.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <mg0pjk$8qs$2@dont-email.me>
 <fd544688-5e9c-418e-9ca9-11b9bcb83186@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <5523F0FF.60400@mrabarnett.plus.com>

On 2015-04-07 15:36, jonas.thornvall at gmail.com wrote:
> Den tisdag 7 april 2015 kl. 16:30:15 UTC+2 skrev Denis McMahon:
>> On Tue, 07 Apr 2015 09:29:59 -0400, Dave Angel wrote:
>>
>>> On 04/07/2015 05:44 AM, jonas.thornvall at gmail.com wrote:
>>
>>>> I want todo faster baseconversion for very big bases like base
>>>> 1 000 000, so instead of adding up digits i search it.
>>
>>> How do you know the baseconversion is the bottleneck, if you
>>> haven't written any Python code yet?
>>
>> He doesn't. He doesn't comprehend that as far as a computer is
>> concerned an integer has no specific 'base', it's only when
>> presented in a form for humans to read that it gets base
>> information added in the representation.
>>
>> He's making these and other similar errors in the javascript groups
>> too.
>>
>> I suspect he's one of those people that spends his time thinking
>> up elaborate solutions that he has no idea how to implement as a
>> response to dreamt up non existent problems.
>>
> Bullshit declare two integers in any language one 7 and one 4 and
> then write x=7+4; if you find a programming language where that does
> not yield 11 tell me.
>
> Integers are internally assumed to be base 10 otherwise you could not
> calculate without giving the base.
>
> All operations on integers addition, subtraction, multiplication and
> division assume base 10.
>
Sorry to say this, but that's nonsense.

It doesn't matter what base it's working in internally; usually it's
base 2 (binary), because that's simpler to implement.

It's only when you're converting from or to text that you need specify
a base. Humans prefer base 10, so they've make that the default.


From davea at davea.name  Tue Apr  7 11:04:37 2015
From: davea at davea.name (Dave Angel)
Date: Tue, 07 Apr 2015 11:04:37 -0400
Subject: Best search algorithm to find condition within a range
In-Reply-To: <fd544688-5e9c-418e-9ca9-11b9bcb83186@googlegroups.com>
References: <2e3a3c01-20b3-4948-9b32-bd80ed46822b@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.89.1428413413.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <mg0pjk$8qs$2@dont-email.me>
 <fd544688-5e9c-418e-9ca9-11b9bcb83186@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <5523F205.9030906@davea.name>

On 04/07/2015 10:36 AM, jonas.thornvall at gmail.com wrote:


> All operations on integers addition, subtraction, multiplication and division assume base 10.
>

There have been machines where that was true, but I haven't worked on 
such for about 30 years.  On any machines I've programmed lately, the 
arithmetic is done in binary by default, and only converted to decimal 
for printing.

Not that the internal base is usually relevant, of course.

-- 
DaveA


From invalid at invalid.invalid  Tue Apr  7 11:05:20 2015
From: invalid at invalid.invalid (Grant Edwards)
Date: Tue, 7 Apr 2015 15:05:20 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Best search algorithm to find condition within a range
References: <2e3a3c01-20b3-4948-9b32-bd80ed46822b@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.89.1428413413.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <mg0pjk$8qs$2@dont-email.me>
 <fd544688-5e9c-418e-9ca9-11b9bcb83186@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.95.1428418146.12925.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <mg0rng$aek$1@reader1.panix.com>

On 2015-04-07, Chris Angelico <rosuav at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Wed, Apr 8, 2015 at 12:36 AM,  <jonas.thornvall at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Integers are internally assumed to be base 10 otherwise you could not
>> calculate without giving the base.
>>
>> All operations on integers addition, subtraction, multiplication and
>> division assume base 10.
>
> You misunderstand how computers and programming languages work. What
> you're seeing there is that *integer literals* are usually in base
> 10; and actually, I can point to plenty of assembly languages where
> the default isn't base 10 (it's usually base 16 (hexadecimal) on IBM
> PCs, and probably base 8 (octal) on big iron).

I'd be curious to see some of those assemblers. I've used dozens of
assemblers over the years for everything from microprocessors with a
few hundred bytes of memory to mini-computers and mainframes.  I've
never seen one that didn't default to base 10 for integer literals.

I'm not saying they don't exist, just that it would be interesting to
see an example of one.

-- 
Grant Edwards               grant.b.edwards        Yow! I'm a fuschia bowling
                                  at               ball somewhere in Brittany
                              gmail.com            


From ian.g.kelly at gmail.com  Tue Apr  7 11:06:24 2015
From: ian.g.kelly at gmail.com (Ian Kelly)
Date: Tue, 7 Apr 2015 09:06:24 -0600
Subject: Best search algorithm to find condition within a range
In-Reply-To: <fd544688-5e9c-418e-9ca9-11b9bcb83186@googlegroups.com>
References: <2e3a3c01-20b3-4948-9b32-bd80ed46822b@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.89.1428413413.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <mg0pjk$8qs$2@dont-email.me>
 <fd544688-5e9c-418e-9ca9-11b9bcb83186@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <CALwzidkqUYbSZftWUKhLxXDb4963jVAfNPsOCxf25JpFrofUrA@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Apr 7, 2015 at 8:36 AM,  <jonas.thornvall at gmail.com> wrote:
> Den tisdag 7 april 2015 kl. 16:30:15 UTC+2 skrev Denis McMahon:
>> On Tue, 07 Apr 2015 09:29:59 -0400, Dave Angel wrote:
>>
>> > On 04/07/2015 05:44 AM, jonas.thornvall at gmail.com wrote:
>>
>> >> I want todo faster baseconversion for very big bases like base 1 000
>> >> 000, so instead of adding up digits i search it.
>>
>> > How do you know the baseconversion is the bottleneck, if you haven't
>> > written any Python code yet?
>>
>> He doesn't. He doesn't comprehend that as far as a computer is concerned
>> an integer has no specific 'base', it's only when presented in a form for
>> humans to read that it gets base information added in the representation.
>>
>> He's making these and other similar errors in the javascript groups too.
>>
>> I suspect he's one of those people that spends his time thinking up
>> elaborate solutions that he has no idea how to implement as a response to
>> dreamt up non existent problems.
>>
>> --
>> Denis McMahon, denismfmcmahon at gmail.com
>
> Bullshit declare two integers in any language one 7 and one 4 and then write x=7+4; if you find a programming language where that does not yield 11 tell me.
>
> Integers are internally assumed to be base 10 otherwise you could not calculate without giving the base.
>
> All operations on integers addition, subtraction, multiplication and division assume base 10.

You're conflating the internal representation of the integer with the
formatting that is done to display the integer. When you do
"print(x)", the computer doesn't just dump the internal representation
of x onto the display. It formats x as character data and displays
*that*. For integers, the vast majority of programming languages will
do the formatting as base 10 by default, since that is the format
preferred by most humans.


From mail at timgolden.me.uk  Tue Apr  7 11:18:09 2015
From: mail at timgolden.me.uk (Tim Golden)
Date: Tue, 07 Apr 2015 16:18:09 +0100
Subject: Python library - WMI.py RegistryValueChangeEvent
In-Reply-To: <5523EF3B.6060705@timgolden.me.uk>
References: <02021a54-2770-4072-808a-75bea346051d@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.74.1428364205.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <5b5fd1cb-484f-4798-b10c-4903ad7aa65c@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.92.1428417080.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <82e021c9-d375-454f-8a01-c21305e36e6f@googlegroups.com>
 <5523EF3B.6060705@timgolden.me.uk>
Message-ID: <5523F531.8040903@timgolden.me.uk>

On 07/04/2015 15:52, Tim Golden wrote:
> On 07/04/2015 15:35, Khyati wrote:
>> On Tuesday, April 7, 2015 at 10:31:47 AM UTC-4, Chris Angelico wrote:
>>> On Wed, Apr 8, 2015 at 12:15 AM, Khyati wrote:
>>>> Thanks for taking a look, Chris.
>>>> The error trace:
>>>> traceback (most recent call last):
>>>>  File "MonitorRegistry.py", line 18, in <module>
>>>>    process_created = watcher()
>>>>  File "C:\Python27\lib\site-packages\wmi.py", line 1195, in __call__
>>>>    handle_com_error ()
>>>>  File "C:\Python27\lib\site-packages\wmi.py", line 241, in handle_com_error
>>>>    raise klass (com_error=err)
>>>> _wmi: <x_wmi: Unexpected COM Error (-2147352567, 'Exception occurred.', (0, u'SWbemPropertySet', u'Not found ', None, 0, -2147217406), None)>
>>>
>>> It looks to me like this is a thin wrapper around the underlying API
>>> call, and you're getting back an error from the lower-level services.
>>> The way this reads, there might well not be an
>>> HKLM\Software\Temp\Name; maybe the ValueName is what's wrong here?
>>>
>>> Someone somewhere knows more than I do, but if you can't find that
>>> someone here on python-list, you might be able to find some help on
>>> Stack Overflow or another mailing list, from people who know how to do
>>> this kind of thing in a different language. You'd have to translate
>>> their suggestions back into Python, but when the wrappers are thin
>>> enough, that's usually not too hard.
>>>
>>> ChrisA
>>
>> HKLM\Software\Temp\Name exists since the event is caught correctly only when I change that key.
>> i'll keep looking :)
>>
> 
> Hi, Khyati.
> 
> Unfortunately, extrinsic events don't come with much information. As you
> can see from the MSDN description:
> 
> https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/aa390355%28v=vs.85%29.aspx
> 
> they're not linked to WMI objects internally (which the intrinsic events
> are) so all they can do is echo back to you details of what changed --
> which will usually be the thing you were asking about in the first place!
> 
> So the Python wrapper doesn't receive any TargetInstance because it's
> not a *WMI* event as such, linked to a WMI object; rather, it's an
> external event which has provided a hook for WMI to hang on to.
> 
> In this specific case, you could use the WMI Registry provider to pick
> up the current value of that registry value, but that wouldn't tell you
> what was there before or anything else. In another case, the event might
> be about some entirely external system -- such as the
> SecurityViolationEvent in the MSDN example -- which provides no WMI
> interface beyond the event itself.
> 
> Feel free to ask more, either on this list or on the win32-specific
> Python list:
> 
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-win32
> 
> (I'm not often free to answer questions so best to use the public forums
> where more people will be able to help).


Forgot to say: you can simplify your code a little as well:

<code>
import wmi

c = wmi.WMI(namespace="root/default")
watcher = c.RegistryValueChangeEvent(Hive="HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE",
KeyPath=r"Software\\Temp", ValueName="Name")

event = watcher()

</code>

TJG


From davea at davea.name  Tue Apr  7 11:23:54 2015
From: davea at davea.name (Dave Angel)
Date: Tue, 07 Apr 2015 11:23:54 -0400
Subject: Best search algorithm to find condition within a range
In-Reply-To: <mg0rng$aek$1@reader1.panix.com>
References: <2e3a3c01-20b3-4948-9b32-bd80ed46822b@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.89.1428413413.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <mg0pjk$8qs$2@dont-email.me>
 <fd544688-5e9c-418e-9ca9-11b9bcb83186@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.95.1428418146.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <mg0rng$aek$1@reader1.panix.com>
Message-ID: <5523F68A.204@davea.name>

On 04/07/2015 11:05 AM, Grant Edwards wrote:
> On 2015-04-07, Chris Angelico <rosuav at gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Wed, Apr 8, 2015 at 12:36 AM,  <jonas.thornvall at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Integers are internally assumed to be base 10 otherwise you could not
>>> calculate without giving the base.
>>>
>>> All operations on integers addition, subtraction, multiplication and
>>> division assume base 10.
>>
>> You misunderstand how computers and programming languages work. What
>> you're seeing there is that *integer literals* are usually in base
>> 10; and actually, I can point to plenty of assembly languages where
>> the default isn't base 10 (it's usually base 16 (hexadecimal) on IBM
>> PCs, and probably base 8 (octal) on big iron).
>
> I'd be curious to see some of those assemblers. I've used dozens of
> assemblers over the years for everything from microprocessors with a
> few hundred bytes of memory to mini-computers and mainframes.  I've
> never seen one that didn't default to base 10 for integer literals.
>
> I'm not saying they don't exist, just that it would be interesting to
> see an example of one.
>

I can't "show" it to you, but the assembler used to write microcode on 
the Wang labs 200VP and 2200MVP used hex for all its literals.  I wrote 
the assembler (and matching debugger-assembler), and if we had needed 
other bases I would have taken an extra day to add them in.

That assembler was not available to our customers, as the machine 
shipped with the microcode in readonly form.  Not quite as readonly as 
the Intel processors of today, of course.


Additionally, the MSDOS DEBUG program used hex to enter in its literals, 
if i recall correctly.  Certainly when it disassembled code, it was in hex.


-- 
DaveA


From shrivastavkhyati at gmail.com  Tue Apr  7 11:30:21 2015
From: shrivastavkhyati at gmail.com (Khyati)
Date: Tue, 7 Apr 2015 08:30:21 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Python library - WMI.py RegistryValueChangeEvent
In-Reply-To: <mailman.101.1428419908.12925.python-list@python.org>
References: <02021a54-2770-4072-808a-75bea346051d@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.74.1428364205.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <5b5fd1cb-484f-4798-b10c-4903ad7aa65c@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.92.1428417080.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <82e021c9-d375-454f-8a01-c21305e36e6f@googlegroups.com>
 <5523EF3B.6060705@timgolden.me.uk>
 <mailman.101.1428419908.12925.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <c121697d-3940-4bd1-a00a-2c15a58ae9e5@googlegroups.com>

Thanks TJG for your reply. 
I guess at this point the question is why is the event not returned to wmi as Extrinsic. May be I should explicitly initialize the class _wmi_watcher and set self.is_extrinsic = True?


Thanks
Khyati

On Tuesday, April 7, 2015 at 11:18:39 AM UTC-4, Tim Golden wrote:
> On 07/04/2015 15:52, Tim Golden wrote:
> > On 07/04/2015 15:35, Khyati wrote:
> >> On Tuesday, April 7, 2015 at 10:31:47 AM UTC-4, Chris Angelico wrote:
> >>> On Wed, Apr 8, 2015 at 12:15 AM, Khyati wrote:
> >>>> Thanks for taking a look, Chris.
> >>>> The error trace:
> >>>> traceback (most recent call last):
> >>>>  File "MonitorRegistry.py", line 18, in <module>
> >>>>    process_created = watcher()
> >>>>  File "C:\Python27\lib\site-packages\wmi.py", line 1195, in __call__
> >>>>    handle_com_error ()
> >>>>  File "C:\Python27\lib\site-packages\wmi.py", line 241, in handle_com_error
> >>>>    raise klass (com_error=err)
> >>>> _wmi: <x_wmi: Unexpected COM Error (-2147352567, 'Exception occurred.', (0, u'SWbemPropertySet', u'Not found ', None, 0, -2147217406), None)>
> >>>
> >>> It looks to me like this is a thin wrapper around the underlying API
> >>> call, and you're getting back an error from the lower-level services.
> >>> The way this reads, there might well not be an
> >>> HKLM\Software\Temp\Name; maybe the ValueName is what's wrong here?
> >>>
> >>> Someone somewhere knows more than I do, but if you can't find that
> >>> someone here on python-list, you might be able to find some help on
> >>> Stack Overflow or another mailing list, from people who know how to do
> >>> this kind of thing in a different language. You'd have to translate
> >>> their suggestions back into Python, but when the wrappers are thin
> >>> enough, that's usually not too hard.
> >>>
> >>> ChrisA
> >>
> >> HKLM\Software\Temp\Name exists since the event is caught correctly only when I change that key.
> >> i'll keep looking :)
> >>
> > 
> > Hi, Khyati.
> > 
> > Unfortunately, extrinsic events don't come with much information. As you
> > can see from the MSDN description:
> > 
> > https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/aa390355%28v=vs.85%29.aspx
> > 
> > they're not linked to WMI objects internally (which the intrinsic events
> > are) so all they can do is echo back to you details of what changed --
> > which will usually be the thing you were asking about in the first place!
> > 
> > So the Python wrapper doesn't receive any TargetInstance because it's
> > not a *WMI* event as such, linked to a WMI object; rather, it's an
> > external event which has provided a hook for WMI to hang on to.
> > 
> > In this specific case, you could use the WMI Registry provider to pick
> > up the current value of that registry value, but that wouldn't tell you
> > what was there before or anything else. In another case, the event might
> > be about some entirely external system -- such as the
> > SecurityViolationEvent in the MSDN example -- which provides no WMI
> > interface beyond the event itself.
> > 
> > Feel free to ask more, either on this list or on the win32-specific
> > Python list:
> > 
> > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-win32
> > 
> > (I'm not often free to answer questions so best to use the public forums
> > where more people will be able to help).
> 
> 
> Forgot to say: you can simplify your code a little as well:
> 
> <code>
> import wmi
> 
> c = wmi.WMI(namespace="root/default")
> watcher = c.RegistryValueChangeEvent(Hive="HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE",
> KeyPath=r"Software\\Temp", ValueName="Name")
> 
> event = watcher()
> 
> </code>
> 
> TJG


From rosuav at gmail.com  Tue Apr  7 11:37:30 2015
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Wed, 8 Apr 2015 01:37:30 +1000
Subject: Best search algorithm to find condition within a range
In-Reply-To: <5523F68A.204@davea.name>
References: <2e3a3c01-20b3-4948-9b32-bd80ed46822b@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.89.1428413413.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <mg0pjk$8qs$2@dont-email.me>
 <fd544688-5e9c-418e-9ca9-11b9bcb83186@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.95.1428418146.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <mg0rng$aek$1@reader1.panix.com> <5523F68A.204@davea.name>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmpideVYRkZngAOQP9miCW6Nsd_rJHb+D_9h2R4k-Tzj2A@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Apr 8, 2015 at 1:23 AM, Dave Angel <davea at davea.name> wrote:
> Additionally, the MSDOS DEBUG program used hex to enter in its literals, if
> i recall correctly.  Certainly when it disassembled code, it was in hex.

Indeed, and that's where I learned 80x86 assembly coding (I didn't
have an actual assembler at the time). DEBUG didn't even have the
option of using other bases; other assemblers might give you "decimal
by default, or adorn them for other bases" (eg MASM's &H notation),
but DEBUG forced you to convert to hex manually.

Although, to be fair, DEBUG was said to have a "mini-assembler" built
in. It was never designed to replace actual assemblers, AFAIK. I just
happened to use it that way. :)

ChrisA


From catalinfest at gmail.com  Tue Apr  7 11:39:37 2015
From: catalinfest at gmail.com (blue)
Date: Tue, 7 Apr 2015 08:39:37 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Euler module under python 2.7 and 3.4 instalation...
Message-ID: <079cd7c7-aa52-4572-9121-f919f5c5ed6a@googlegroups.com>

Dear friends .
I want to install Euler module under python 2.7 and / or 3.4 version.
I try pip and pip 3.4 but seam not working for me.
I need some help with this .
Thank you . Regards.


From jonas.thornvall at gmail.com  Tue Apr  7 11:40:53 2015
From: jonas.thornvall at gmail.com (jonas.thornvall at gmail.com)
Date: Tue, 7 Apr 2015 08:40:53 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Best search algorithm to find condition within a range
In-Reply-To: <mailman.93.1428417164.12925.python-list@python.org>
References: <2e3a3c01-20b3-4948-9b32-bd80ed46822b@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.93.1428417164.12925.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <d6e7bb84-3810-435a-bd7a-ad45da86f906@googlegroups.com>

Den tisdag 7 april 2015 kl. 16:32:56 UTC+2 skrev Ian:
> On Tue, Apr 7, 2015 at 3:44 AM,  <jonas.thornvall at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >
> > I want todo faster baseconversion for very big bases like base 1 000 000, so instead of adding up digits i search it.
> >
> > I need the fastest algorithm to find the relation to a decimal number.
> > Digmult is an instance of base at a digitplace (base^x) what i try to find is the digit for the below condition is true and the loop break.
> >
> >
> > *********************************
> > for (digit=0;digit<=base;digit++) {
> >        if((digit+1)*digmult>decNumber)break;
> > }
> > *********************************
> >
> > So i am looking for the digit where following condition true.
> >
> > if((digit)*digmult<decNumber) AND if((digit+1)*digmult>decNumber) then BREAK;
> 
> I'm not sure that I understand what it is that you're trying to
> accomplish. Are you trying to find the digits without using division
> because "division is slow"? If that's the case, then let me show you
> something.
> 
> $ python -m timeit -s "n = 1523837293" "n // 1000000"
> 1000000 loops, best of 3: 0.286 usec per loop
> 
> $ python -m timeit -s "n = 1523" "n * 1000000; (n+1) * 1000000"
> 1000000 loops, best of 3: 0.455 usec per loop
> 
> In Python, one addition and two multiplications are already slower
> than a single division. The only way you're going to beat division by
> using trial multiplication is if the first digit that you try is
> always correct. To do that, you would need an oracle feeding your
> search algorithm, and then you might as well just use the oracle.
> 
> > One could start at half base searching, but then i Think i've read that using 1/3 closing in faster?
> 
> Do you mean binary search? That would be an improvement over the
> linear search algorithm you've shown. Whether a trinary search might
> be faster would depend on the distribution of the numbers you expect.
> If they're evenly distributed, it will be slower.
> 
> > I Think also i remember that if the search space so big that at least 22 or 23 guesses, needed.A random Oracle may even faster?
> >
> > Just pick up a number and get lucky, is it any truth to that?
> 
> On average, a random Oracle with a search space of 1000000 will need
> 1000000 guesses.

Well of course you use same principles like a binary search setting min and max, closing in on the digit. In this case the searched numbers  > base^exp  and number< base^exp+1.

But since the search is within large bases upto 32-bit space, so base 4294967295 is the biggest allowed. I need to find the nearest less exp in base for each (lets call them pseudo digits). But as you see there it will take time to add them up. So better doing a binary search, you know min-max half (iteration). You can do the same for a random oracle min max within range, and if the number of tries in general over 22 i think a random oracle do it better than a binary search. 

It was a long time since i did this, but i do know there is a threshold where searching min max with the oracle will be faster than the binary search.


From hcaldas92 at gmail.com  Tue Apr  7 11:42:07 2015
From: hcaldas92 at gmail.com (Hugo Caldas)
Date: Tue, 7 Apr 2015 16:42:07 +0100
Subject: [SerialConnection] Help
Message-ID: <CAABAm7x4nuNwQ+31TR7qOFS=BhOjPV-weO=wzD1RoBcxVEj-Qg@mail.gmail.com>

Hi.

I want to connect to a serial port, read and write the port values with
multi threading and save them in random variables in python 3.4.
Where can I found information to do that?

thank you
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/attachments/20150407/d1f7a209/attachment.html>

From jonas.thornvall at gmail.com  Tue Apr  7 11:43:17 2015
From: jonas.thornvall at gmail.com (jonas.thornvall at gmail.com)
Date: Tue, 7 Apr 2015 08:43:17 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Best search algorithm to find condition within a range
In-Reply-To: <mailman.97.1428418825.12925.python-list@python.org>
References: <2e3a3c01-20b3-4948-9b32-bd80ed46822b@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.89.1428413413.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <mg0pjk$8qs$2@dont-email.me>
 <fd544688-5e9c-418e-9ca9-11b9bcb83186@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.97.1428418825.12925.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <9616a040-fcb4-4edf-9570-145f8be99d92@googlegroups.com>

Den tisdag 7 april 2015 kl. 17:00:53 UTC+2 skrev MRAB:
> On 2015-04-07 15:36, jonas.thornvall at gmail.com wrote:
> > Den tisdag 7 april 2015 kl. 16:30:15 UTC+2 skrev Denis McMahon:
> >> On Tue, 07 Apr 2015 09:29:59 -0400, Dave Angel wrote:
> >>
> >>> On 04/07/2015 05:44 AM, jonas.thornvall at gmail.com wrote:
> >>
> >>>> I want todo faster baseconversion for very big bases like base
> >>>> 1 000 000, so instead of adding up digits i search it.
> >>
> >>> How do you know the baseconversion is the bottleneck, if you
> >>> haven't written any Python code yet?
> >>
> >> He doesn't. He doesn't comprehend that as far as a computer is
> >> concerned an integer has no specific 'base', it's only when
> >> presented in a form for humans to read that it gets base
> >> information added in the representation.
> >>
> >> He's making these and other similar errors in the javascript groups
> >> too.
> >>
> >> I suspect he's one of those people that spends his time thinking
> >> up elaborate solutions that he has no idea how to implement as a
> >> response to dreamt up non existent problems.
> >>
> > Bullshit declare two integers in any language one 7 and one 4 and
> > then write x=7+4; if you find a programming language where that does
> > not yield 11 tell me.
> >
> > Integers are internally assumed to be base 10 otherwise you could not
> > calculate without giving the base.
> >
> > All operations on integers addition, subtraction, multiplication and
> > division assume base 10.
> >
> Sorry to say this, but that's nonsense.
> 
> It doesn't matter what base it's working in internally; usually it's
> base 2 (binary), because that's simpler to implement.
> 
> It's only when you're converting from or to text that you need specify
> a base. Humans prefer base 10, so they've make that the default.

No that is not what i am saying, i am saying if you do operations on two integers the machine will assume base 10.


From jonas.thornvall at gmail.com  Tue Apr  7 11:47:38 2015
From: jonas.thornvall at gmail.com (jonas.thornvall at gmail.com)
Date: Tue, 7 Apr 2015 08:47:38 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Best search algorithm to find condition within a range
In-Reply-To: <mailman.99.1428419232.12925.python-list@python.org>
References: <2e3a3c01-20b3-4948-9b32-bd80ed46822b@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.89.1428413413.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <mg0pjk$8qs$2@dont-email.me>
 <fd544688-5e9c-418e-9ca9-11b9bcb83186@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.99.1428419232.12925.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <b4d8ded0-2e76-4ebd-b6b3-2a5ac195bc40@googlegroups.com>

Den tisdag 7 april 2015 kl. 17:07:36 UTC+2 skrev Ian:
> On Tue, Apr 7, 2015 at 8:36 AM,  <jonas.thornvall at gmail.com> wrote:
> > Den tisdag 7 april 2015 kl. 16:30:15 UTC+2 skrev Denis McMahon:
> >> On Tue, 07 Apr 2015 09:29:59 -0400, Dave Angel wrote:
> >>
> >> > On 04/07/2015 05:44 AM, jonas.thornvall at gmail.com wrote:
> >>
> >> >> I want todo faster baseconversion for very big bases like base 1 000
> >> >> 000, so instead of adding up digits i search it.
> >>
> >> > How do you know the baseconversion is the bottleneck, if you haven't
> >> > written any Python code yet?
> >>
> >> He doesn't. He doesn't comprehend that as far as a computer is concerned
> >> an integer has no specific 'base', it's only when presented in a form for
> >> humans to read that it gets base information added in the representation.
> >>
> >> He's making these and other similar errors in the javascript groups too.
> >>
> >> I suspect he's one of those people that spends his time thinking up
> >> elaborate solutions that he has no idea how to implement as a response to
> >> dreamt up non existent problems.
> >>
> >> --
> >> Denis McMahon, denismfmcmahon at gmail.com
> >
> > Bullshit declare two integers in any language one 7 and one 4 and then write x=7+4; if you find a programming language where that does not yield 11 tell me.
> >
> > Integers are internally assumed to be base 10 otherwise you could not calculate without giving the base.
> >
> > All operations on integers addition, subtraction, multiplication and division assume base 10.
> 
> You're conflating the internal representation of the integer with the
> formatting that is done to display the integer. When you do
> "print(x)", the computer doesn't just dump the internal representation
> of x onto the display. It formats x as character data and displays
> *that*. For integers, the vast majority of programming languages will
> do the formatting as base 10 by default, since that is the format
> preferred by most humans.

No i don't i say the operations assume base ten other wise INT A=7,B=4 Calculate C=A+B would not yield 11 as an answer. The programming languages assume integer operations are done in base 10, at least the one where you can not specify in what base the integer arithmetic is done. And there probably is such languages, Python maybe?


From shrivastavkhyati at gmail.com  Tue Apr  7 12:00:46 2015
From: shrivastavkhyati at gmail.com (Khyati)
Date: Tue, 7 Apr 2015 09:00:46 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Python library - WMI.py RegistryValueChangeEvent
In-Reply-To: <c121697d-3940-4bd1-a00a-2c15a58ae9e5@googlegroups.com>
References: <02021a54-2770-4072-808a-75bea346051d@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.74.1428364205.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <5b5fd1cb-484f-4798-b10c-4903ad7aa65c@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.92.1428417080.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <82e021c9-d375-454f-8a01-c21305e36e6f@googlegroups.com>
 <5523EF3B.6060705@timgolden.me.uk>
 <mailman.101.1428419908.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <c121697d-3940-4bd1-a00a-2c15a58ae9e5@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <90123954-2830-494d-9be7-bb56c3eb7408@googlegroups.com>

Resolved:
watcher = c.watch_for(raw_wql=raw_wql,wmi_class = "RegistryValueChangeEvent")
is the right way - instead of wmi_class = __ExtrinsicEvent

Thanks, everyone.


On Tuesday, April 7, 2015 at 11:30:33 AM UTC-4, Khyati wrote:
> Thanks TJG for your reply. 
> I guess at this point the question is why is the event not returned to wmi as Extrinsic. May be I should explicitly initialize the class _wmi_watcher and set self.is_extrinsic = True?
> 
> 
> Thanks
> Khyati
> 
> On Tuesday, April 7, 2015 at 11:18:39 AM UTC-4, Tim Golden wrote:
> > On 07/04/2015 15:52, Tim Golden wrote:
> > > On 07/04/2015 15:35, Khyati wrote:
> > >> On Tuesday, April 7, 2015 at 10:31:47 AM UTC-4, Chris Angelico wrote:
> > >>> On Wed, Apr 8, 2015 at 12:15 AM, Khyati wrote:
> > >>>> Thanks for taking a look, Chris.
> > >>>> The error trace:
> > >>>> traceback (most recent call last):
> > >>>>  File "MonitorRegistry.py", line 18, in <module>
> > >>>>    process_created = watcher()
> > >>>>  File "C:\Python27\lib\site-packages\wmi.py", line 1195, in __call__
> > >>>>    handle_com_error ()
> > >>>>  File "C:\Python27\lib\site-packages\wmi.py", line 241, in handle_com_error
> > >>>>    raise klass (com_error=err)
> > >>>> _wmi: <x_wmi: Unexpected COM Error (-2147352567, 'Exception occurred.', (0, u'SWbemPropertySet', u'Not found ', None, 0, -2147217406), None)>
> > >>>
> > >>> It looks to me like this is a thin wrapper around the underlying API
> > >>> call, and you're getting back an error from the lower-level services.
> > >>> The way this reads, there might well not be an
> > >>> HKLM\Software\Temp\Name; maybe the ValueName is what's wrong here?
> > >>>
> > >>> Someone somewhere knows more than I do, but if you can't find that
> > >>> someone here on python-list, you might be able to find some help on
> > >>> Stack Overflow or another mailing list, from people who know how to do
> > >>> this kind of thing in a different language. You'd have to translate
> > >>> their suggestions back into Python, but when the wrappers are thin
> > >>> enough, that's usually not too hard.
> > >>>
> > >>> ChrisA
> > >>
> > >> HKLM\Software\Temp\Name exists since the event is caught correctly only when I change that key.
> > >> i'll keep looking :)
> > >>
> > > 
> > > Hi, Khyati.
> > > 
> > > Unfortunately, extrinsic events don't come with much information. As you
> > > can see from the MSDN description:
> > > 
> > > https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/aa390355%28v=vs.85%29.aspx
> > > 
> > > they're not linked to WMI objects internally (which the intrinsic events
> > > are) so all they can do is echo back to you details of what changed --
> > > which will usually be the thing you were asking about in the first place!
> > > 
> > > So the Python wrapper doesn't receive any TargetInstance because it's
> > > not a *WMI* event as such, linked to a WMI object; rather, it's an
> > > external event which has provided a hook for WMI to hang on to.
> > > 
> > > In this specific case, you could use the WMI Registry provider to pick
> > > up the current value of that registry value, but that wouldn't tell you
> > > what was there before or anything else. In another case, the event might
> > > be about some entirely external system -- such as the
> > > SecurityViolationEvent in the MSDN example -- which provides no WMI
> > > interface beyond the event itself.
> > > 
> > > Feel free to ask more, either on this list or on the win32-specific
> > > Python list:
> > > 
> > > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-win32
> > > 
> > > (I'm not often free to answer questions so best to use the public forums
> > > where more people will be able to help).
> > 
> > 
> > Forgot to say: you can simplify your code a little as well:
> > 
> > <code>
> > import wmi
> > 
> > c = wmi.WMI(namespace="root/default")
> > watcher = c.RegistryValueChangeEvent(Hive="HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE",
> > KeyPath=r"Software\\Temp", ValueName="Name")
> > 
> > event = watcher()
> > 
> > </code>
> > 
> > TJG


From python at mrabarnett.plus.com  Tue Apr  7 12:02:20 2015
From: python at mrabarnett.plus.com (MRAB)
Date: Tue, 07 Apr 2015 17:02:20 +0100
Subject: Best search algorithm to find condition within a range
In-Reply-To: <mg0rng$aek$1@reader1.panix.com>
References: <2e3a3c01-20b3-4948-9b32-bd80ed46822b@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.89.1428413413.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <mg0pjk$8qs$2@dont-email.me>
 <fd544688-5e9c-418e-9ca9-11b9bcb83186@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.95.1428418146.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <mg0rng$aek$1@reader1.panix.com>
Message-ID: <5523FF8C.4060602@mrabarnett.plus.com>

On 2015-04-07 16:05, Grant Edwards wrote:
> On 2015-04-07, Chris Angelico <rosuav at gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Wed, Apr 8, 2015 at 12:36 AM,  <jonas.thornvall at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Integers are internally assumed to be base 10 otherwise you could not
>>> calculate without giving the base.
>>>
>>> All operations on integers addition, subtraction, multiplication and
>>> division assume base 10.
>>
>> You misunderstand how computers and programming languages work. What
>> you're seeing there is that *integer literals* are usually in base
>> 10; and actually, I can point to plenty of assembly languages where
>> the default isn't base 10 (it's usually base 16 (hexadecimal) on IBM
>> PCs, and probably base 8 (octal) on big iron).
>
> I'd be curious to see some of those assemblers. I've used dozens of
> assemblers over the years for everything from microprocessors with a
> few hundred bytes of memory to mini-computers and mainframes.  I've
> never seen one that didn't default to base 10 for integer literals.
>
> I'm not saying they don't exist, just that it would be interesting to
> see an example of one.
>
I have a book called "Choosing and using 4 Bit Microcontrollers" by
Philip McDowell. In it is an example assembly listing for an OKI 6351
microcontroller that uses unadorned hexadecimal literals.


From ian.g.kelly at gmail.com  Tue Apr  7 12:06:25 2015
From: ian.g.kelly at gmail.com (Ian Kelly)
Date: Tue, 7 Apr 2015 10:06:25 -0600
Subject: [SerialConnection] Help
In-Reply-To: <CAABAm7x4nuNwQ+31TR7qOFS=BhOjPV-weO=wzD1RoBcxVEj-Qg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAABAm7x4nuNwQ+31TR7qOFS=BhOjPV-weO=wzD1RoBcxVEj-Qg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CALwzid=c_jVWGU2r1rAFetJyhEYe9CWkEZpWm5Rc627YBrXS-g@mail.gmail.com>

On Apr 7, 2015 9:43 AM, "Hugo Caldas" <hcaldas92 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Hi.
>
> I want to connect to a serial port, read and write the port values with
multi threading and save them in random variables in python 3.4.
> Where can I found information to do that?

You can use the pyserial third-party module to do the serial port
communication and the threading module from the standard library for
multithreading.

You'll have to elaborate on what you mean by "random variables".
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/attachments/20150407/2f6c683e/attachment.html>

From invalid at invalid.invalid  Tue Apr  7 12:08:03 2015
From: invalid at invalid.invalid (Grant Edwards)
Date: Tue, 7 Apr 2015 16:08:03 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [SerialConnection] Help
References: <mailman.104.1428421329.12925.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <mg0vd3$pg6$1@reader1.panix.com>

On 2015-04-07, Hugo Caldas <hcaldas92 at gmail.com> wrote:

> I want to connect to a serial port, read and write the port values with
> multi threading and save them in random variables in python 3.4.
> Where can I found information to do that?

http://pyserial.sourceforge.net/pyserial.html

-- 
Grant Edwards               grant.b.edwards        Yow! This ASEXUAL PIG
                                  at               really BOILS my BLOOD
                              gmail.com            ... He's so ... so
                                                   ... URGENT!!


From python at mrabarnett.plus.com  Tue Apr  7 12:10:50 2015
From: python at mrabarnett.plus.com (MRAB)
Date: Tue, 07 Apr 2015 17:10:50 +0100
Subject: [SerialConnection] Help
In-Reply-To: <CAABAm7x4nuNwQ+31TR7qOFS=BhOjPV-weO=wzD1RoBcxVEj-Qg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAABAm7x4nuNwQ+31TR7qOFS=BhOjPV-weO=wzD1RoBcxVEj-Qg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <5524018A.2050205@mrabarnett.plus.com>

On 2015-04-07 16:42, Hugo Caldas wrote:
> Hi.
>
> I want to connect to a serial port, read and write the port values with
> multi threading and save them in random variables in python 3.4.
> Where can I found information to do that?
>
Use the pyserial module.

The module is on PyPI:

https://pypi.python.org/pypi/pyserial

and the documentation is here:

http://pythonhosted.org//pyserial/



From jonas.thornvall at gmail.com  Tue Apr  7 12:18:06 2015
From: jonas.thornvall at gmail.com (jonas.thornvall at gmail.com)
Date: Tue, 7 Apr 2015 09:18:06 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Best search algorithm to find condition within a range
In-Reply-To: <mg0pjk$8qs$2@dont-email.me>
References: <2e3a3c01-20b3-4948-9b32-bd80ed46822b@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.89.1428413413.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <mg0pjk$8qs$2@dont-email.me>
Message-ID: <e2dcaff2-cc48-4eb2-a662-44c0ca06bbf7@googlegroups.com>

Den tisdag 7 april 2015 kl. 16:30:15 UTC+2 skrev Denis McMahon:
> On Tue, 07 Apr 2015 09:29:59 -0400, Dave Angel wrote:
> 
> > On 04/07/2015 05:44 AM, jonas.thornvall at gmail.com wrote:
> 
> >> I want todo faster baseconversion for very big bases like base 1 000
> >> 000, so instead of adding up digits i search it.
> 
> > How do you know the baseconversion is the bottleneck, if you haven't
> > written any Python code yet?
> 
> He doesn't. He doesn't comprehend that as far as a computer is concerned 
> an integer has no specific 'base', it's only when presented in a form for 
> humans to read that it gets base information added in the representation.
> 
> He's making these and other similar errors in the javascript groups too.
> 
> I suspect he's one of those people that spends his time thinking up 
> elaborate solutions that he has no idea how to implement as a response to 
> dreamt up non existent problems.
> 
> -- 
> Denis McMahon, denismfmcmahon at gmail.com

Well Denis if it hasn't a base then how can you add integers, the integer operations assume base 10. 


From davea at davea.name  Tue Apr  7 12:33:58 2015
From: davea at davea.name (Dave Angel)
Date: Tue, 07 Apr 2015 12:33:58 -0400
Subject: Best search algorithm to find condition within a range
In-Reply-To: <d6e7bb84-3810-435a-bd7a-ad45da86f906@googlegroups.com>
References: <2e3a3c01-20b3-4948-9b32-bd80ed46822b@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.93.1428417164.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <d6e7bb84-3810-435a-bd7a-ad45da86f906@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <552406F6.6050402@davea.name>

On 04/07/2015 11:40 AM, jonas.thornvall at gmail.com wrote:
> Den tisdag 7 april 2015 kl. 16:32:56 UTC+2 skrev Ian:
>> On Tue, Apr 7, 2015 at 3:44 AM,  <jonas.thornvall at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> I want todo faster baseconversion for very big bases like base 1 000 000, so instead of adding up digits i search it.
>>>
>>> I need the fastest algorithm to find the relation to a decimal number.
>>> Digmult is an instance of base at a digitplace (base^x) what i try to find is the digit for the below condition is true and the loop break.
>>>
>>>
>>> *********************************
>>> for (digit=0;digit<=base;digit++) {
>>>         if((digit+1)*digmult>decNumber)break;
>>> }
>>> *********************************
>>>
    <snip>
>>
>>> One could start at half base searching, but then i Think i've read that using 1/3 closing in faster?
>>
>> Do you mean binary search? That would be an improvement over the
>> linear search algorithm you've shown. Whether a trinary search might
>> be faster would depend on the distribution of the numbers you expect.
>> If they're evenly distributed, it will be slower.
>>
>>> I Think also i remember that if the search space so big that at least 22 or 23 guesses, needed.A random Oracle may even faster?
>>>
>>> Just pick up a number and get lucky, is it any truth to that?
>>
>> On average, a random Oracle with a search space of 1000000 will need
>> 1000000 guesses.
>
> Well of course you use same principles like a binary search setting min and max, closing in on the digit. In this case the searched numbers  > base^exp  and number< base^exp+1.
>
> But since the search is within large bases upto 32-bit space, so base 4294967295 is the biggest allowed. I need to find the nearest less exp in base for each (lets call them pseudo digits). But as you see there it will take time to add them up. So better doing a binary search, you know min-max half (iteration). You can do the same for a random oracle min max within range, and if the number of tries in general over 22 i think a random oracle do it better than a binary search.
>
> It was a long time since i did this, but i do know there is a threshold where searching min max with the oracle will be faster than the binary search.
>

Once again, there's no point in doing a search, when a simple integer 
divide can give you the exact answer.  And there's probably no point in 
going left to right when right to left would yield a tiny, fast program.

I haven't seen one line of Python from you yet, so perhaps you're just 
yanking our chain.  I'm not here to optimize Javascript code.

Using only Python 3.4 and builtin functions, this function can be 
implemented straightforwardly in 7 lines, assuming number is nonnegative 
integer, and base is positive integer.  It definitely could be done 
smaller, but then the code might be more confusing.

-- 
DaveA


From jonas.thornvall at gmail.com  Tue Apr  7 13:07:58 2015
From: jonas.thornvall at gmail.com (jonas.thornvall at gmail.com)
Date: Tue, 7 Apr 2015 10:07:58 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Best search algorithm to find condition within a range
In-Reply-To: <mailman.108.1428424459.12925.python-list@python.org>
References: <2e3a3c01-20b3-4948-9b32-bd80ed46822b@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.93.1428417164.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <d6e7bb84-3810-435a-bd7a-ad45da86f906@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.108.1428424459.12925.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <9fd13f49-8bfa-43ef-8787-21d5c76a6268@googlegroups.com>

Den tisdag 7 april 2015 kl. 18:34:32 UTC+2 skrev Dave Angel:
> On 04/07/2015 11:40 AM, jonas.thornvall at gmail.com wrote:
> > Den tisdag 7 april 2015 kl. 16:32:56 UTC+2 skrev Ian:
> >> On Tue, Apr 7, 2015 at 3:44 AM,  <jonas.thornvall at gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> I want todo faster baseconversion for very big bases like base 1 000 000, so instead of adding up digits i search it.
> >>>
> >>> I need the fastest algorithm to find the relation to a decimal number.
> >>> Digmult is an instance of base at a digitplace (base^x) what i try to find is the digit for the below condition is true and the loop break.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> *********************************
> >>> for (digit=0;digit<=base;digit++) {
> >>>         if((digit+1)*digmult>decNumber)break;
> >>> }
> >>> *********************************
> >>>
>     <snip>
> >>
> >>> One could start at half base searching, but then i Think i've read that using 1/3 closing in faster?
> >>
> >> Do you mean binary search? That would be an improvement over the
> >> linear search algorithm you've shown. Whether a trinary search might
> >> be faster would depend on the distribution of the numbers you expect.
> >> If they're evenly distributed, it will be slower.
> >>
> >>> I Think also i remember that if the search space so big that at least 22 or 23 guesses, needed.A random Oracle may even faster?
> >>>
> >>> Just pick up a number and get lucky, is it any truth to that?
> >>
> >> On average, a random Oracle with a search space of 1000000 will need
> >> 1000000 guesses.
> >
> > Well of course you use same principles like a binary search setting min and max, closing in on the digit. In this case the searched numbers  > base^exp  and number< base^exp+1.
> >
> > But since the search is within large bases upto 32-bit space, so base 4294967295 is the biggest allowed. I need to find the nearest less exp in base for each (lets call them pseudo digits). But as you see there it will take time to add them up. So better doing a binary search, you know min-max half (iteration). You can do the same for a random oracle min max within range, and if the number of tries in general over 22 i think a random oracle do it better than a binary search.
> >
> > It was a long time since i did this, but i do know there is a threshold where searching min max with the oracle will be faster than the binary search.
> >
> 
> Once again, there's no point in doing a search, when a simple integer 
> divide can give you the exact answer.  And there's probably no point in 
> going left to right when right to left would yield a tiny, fast program.
> 
> I haven't seen one line of Python from you yet, so perhaps you're just 
> yanking our chain.  I'm not here to optimize Javascript code.
> 
> Using only Python 3.4 and builtin functions, this function can be 
> implemented straightforwardly in 7 lines, assuming number is nonnegative 
> integer, and base is positive integer.  It definitely could be done 
> smaller, but then the code might be more confusing.
> 
> -- 
> DaveA

So you can tell me the first (higest) digit of the integer 2932903594368438384328325832983294832483258958495845849584958458435439543858588435856958650865490

Using base 429496729?

How long time did it take to find it?


From ian.g.kelly at gmail.com  Tue Apr  7 13:44:57 2015
From: ian.g.kelly at gmail.com (Ian Kelly)
Date: Tue, 7 Apr 2015 11:44:57 -0600
Subject: Best search algorithm to find condition within a range
In-Reply-To: <9fd13f49-8bfa-43ef-8787-21d5c76a6268@googlegroups.com>
References: <2e3a3c01-20b3-4948-9b32-bd80ed46822b@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.93.1428417164.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <d6e7bb84-3810-435a-bd7a-ad45da86f906@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.108.1428424459.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <9fd13f49-8bfa-43ef-8787-21d5c76a6268@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <CALwzidnbnbttdd+ow+gYg2-y8KDTAzXfEJ4c19OkEN=eOH2rLw@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Apr 7, 2015 at 11:07 AM,  <jonas.thornvall at gmail.com> wrote:
> Den tisdag 7 april 2015 kl. 18:34:32 UTC+2 skrev Dave Angel:
>> Once again, there's no point in doing a search, when a simple integer
>> divide can give you the exact answer.  And there's probably no point in
>> going left to right when right to left would yield a tiny, fast program.
>>
>> I haven't seen one line of Python from you yet, so perhaps you're just
>> yanking our chain.  I'm not here to optimize Javascript code.
>>
>> Using only Python 3.4 and builtin functions, this function can be
>> implemented straightforwardly in 7 lines, assuming number is nonnegative
>> integer, and base is positive integer.  It definitely could be done
>> smaller, but then the code might be more confusing.
>>
>> --
>> DaveA
>
> So you can tell me the first (higest) digit of the integer 2932903594368438384328325832983294832483258958495845849584958458435439543858588435856958650865490
>
> Using base 429496729?

>>> def to_base(number, base):
...     digits = []
...     while number > 0:
...         digits.append(number % base)
...         number //= base
...     return digits or [0]
...
>>> to_base(2932903594368438384328325832983294832483258958495845849584958458435439543858588435856958650865490, 429496729)
[27626525, 286159541, 134919277, 305018215, 329341598, 48181777,
79384857, 112868646, 221068759, 70871527, 416507001, 31]

> How long time did it take to find it?

About 15 microseconds.


From davea at davea.name  Tue Apr  7 14:35:04 2015
From: davea at davea.name (Dave Angel)
Date: Tue, 07 Apr 2015 14:35:04 -0400
Subject: Euler module under python 2.7 and 3.4 instalation...
In-Reply-To: <079cd7c7-aa52-4572-9121-f919f5c5ed6a@googlegroups.com>
References: <079cd7c7-aa52-4572-9121-f919f5c5ed6a@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <55242358.10905@davea.name>

On 04/07/2015 11:39 AM, blue wrote:
> Dear friends .
> I want to install Euler module under python 2.7 and / or 3.4 version.
> I try pip and pip 3.4 but seam not working for me.
> I need some help with this .
> Thank you . Regards.
>

You don't specify what you mean by Euler.  There are at least 3 things 
you might be talking about:

http://euler.rene-grothmann.de/index.html

https://projecteuler.net/

https://github.com/iKevinY/EulerPy

Without you telling us what you're talking about, we're not likely to be 
able to help.

If you used a pip command(s), please show us exactly what you typed, and 
what result you saw.  Use copy/paste.

And tell us what OS you're doing it on.

-- 
DaveA


From tjreedy at udel.edu  Tue Apr  7 14:55:01 2015
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Tue, 07 Apr 2015 14:55:01 -0400
Subject: Best search algorithm to find condition within a range
In-Reply-To: <CALwzidnbnbttdd+ow+gYg2-y8KDTAzXfEJ4c19OkEN=eOH2rLw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <2e3a3c01-20b3-4948-9b32-bd80ed46822b@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.93.1428417164.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <d6e7bb84-3810-435a-bd7a-ad45da86f906@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.108.1428424459.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <9fd13f49-8bfa-43ef-8787-21d5c76a6268@googlegroups.com>
 <CALwzidnbnbttdd+ow+gYg2-y8KDTAzXfEJ4c19OkEN=eOH2rLw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <mg1973$lj6$1@ger.gmane.org>

On 4/7/2015 1:44 PM, Ian Kelly wrote:

>>>> def to_base(number, base):
> ...     digits = []
> ...     while number > 0:
> ...         digits.append(number % base)
> ...         number //= base
> ...     return digits or [0]
> ...
>>>> to_base(2932903594368438384328325832983294832483258958495845849584958458435439543858588435856958650865490, 429496729)
> [27626525, 286159541, 134919277, 305018215, 329341598, 48181777,
> 79384857, 112868646, 221068759, 70871527, 416507001, 31]
> About 15 microseconds.

% and probably // call divmod internally and toss one of the results. 
Slightly faster (5.7 versus 6.1 microseconds on my machine) is

def to_base_dm(number, base):
     digits = []
     while number > 0:
         number, rem = divmod(number, base)
         digits.append(rem)
     return digits or [0]

-- 
Terry Jan Reedy



From ian.g.kelly at gmail.com  Tue Apr  7 15:19:41 2015
From: ian.g.kelly at gmail.com (Ian Kelly)
Date: Tue, 7 Apr 2015 13:19:41 -0600
Subject: Best search algorithm to find condition within a range
In-Reply-To: <mg1973$lj6$1@ger.gmane.org>
References: <2e3a3c01-20b3-4948-9b32-bd80ed46822b@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.93.1428417164.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <d6e7bb84-3810-435a-bd7a-ad45da86f906@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.108.1428424459.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <9fd13f49-8bfa-43ef-8787-21d5c76a6268@googlegroups.com>
 <CALwzidnbnbttdd+ow+gYg2-y8KDTAzXfEJ4c19OkEN=eOH2rLw@mail.gmail.com>
 <mg1973$lj6$1@ger.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <CALwzidnbRyohkShd=2J5rVDRS+DdgpSfVvJXtn2xEkC3CM1BoQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Apr 7, 2015 at 12:55 PM, Terry Reedy <tjreedy at udel.edu> wrote:
> On 4/7/2015 1:44 PM, Ian Kelly wrote:
>
>>>>> def to_base(number, base):
>>
>> ...     digits = []
>> ...     while number > 0:
>> ...         digits.append(number % base)
>> ...         number //= base
>> ...     return digits or [0]
>> ...
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> to_base(2932903594368438384328325832983294832483258958495845849584958458435439543858588435856958650865490,
>>>>> 429496729)
>>
>> [27626525, 286159541, 134919277, 305018215, 329341598, 48181777,
>> 79384857, 112868646, 221068759, 70871527, 416507001, 31]
>> About 15 microseconds.
>
>
> % and probably // call divmod internally and toss one of the results.
> Slightly faster (5.7 versus 6.1 microseconds on my machine) is

Not on my box.

$ python3 -m timeit -s "n = 1000000; x = 42" "n % x; n // x"
10000000 loops, best of 3: 0.105 usec per loop
$ python3 -m timeit -s "n = 1000000; x = 42" "divmod(n,x)"
10000000 loops, best of 3: 0.124 usec per loop


From rosuav at gmail.com  Tue Apr  7 15:25:35 2015
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Wed, 8 Apr 2015 05:25:35 +1000
Subject: Best search algorithm to find condition within a range
In-Reply-To: <CALwzidnbRyohkShd=2J5rVDRS+DdgpSfVvJXtn2xEkC3CM1BoQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <2e3a3c01-20b3-4948-9b32-bd80ed46822b@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.93.1428417164.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <d6e7bb84-3810-435a-bd7a-ad45da86f906@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.108.1428424459.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <9fd13f49-8bfa-43ef-8787-21d5c76a6268@googlegroups.com>
 <CALwzidnbnbttdd+ow+gYg2-y8KDTAzXfEJ4c19OkEN=eOH2rLw@mail.gmail.com>
 <mg1973$lj6$1@ger.gmane.org>
 <CALwzidnbRyohkShd=2J5rVDRS+DdgpSfVvJXtn2xEkC3CM1BoQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmrxtBDoL8g+3URBi0My5BHiqCcYqE2aFSiZSJussH+V-Q@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Apr 8, 2015 at 5:19 AM, Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly at gmail.com> wrote:
>> % and probably // call divmod internally and toss one of the results.
>> Slightly faster (5.7 versus 6.1 microseconds on my machine) is
>
> Not on my box.
>
> $ python3 -m timeit -s "n = 1000000; x = 42" "n % x; n // x"
> 10000000 loops, best of 3: 0.105 usec per loop
> $ python3 -m timeit -s "n = 1000000; x = 42" "divmod(n,x)"
> 10000000 loops, best of 3: 0.124 usec per loop

Nor mine, though eliminating the global lookup cuts some of the time:

rosuav at sikorsky:~$ python3 -m timeit -s "n = 1000000; x = 42" "n % x; n // x"
1000000 loops, best of 3: 0.231 usec per loop
rosuav at sikorsky:~$ python3 -m timeit -s "n = 1000000; x = 42" "divmod(n,x)"
1000000 loops, best of 3: 0.305 usec per loop
rosuav at sikorsky:~$ python3 -m timeit -s "n = 1000000; x = 42; dm =
divmod" "dm(n,x)"
1000000 loops, best of 3: 0.26 usec per loop

But this is microbenchmarking. It's pretty pointless.

ChrisA


From ben.usenet at bsb.me.uk  Tue Apr  7 15:27:06 2015
From: ben.usenet at bsb.me.uk (Ben Bacarisse)
Date: Tue, 07 Apr 2015 20:27:06 +0100
Subject: Best search algorithm to find condition within a range
References: <2e3a3c01-20b3-4948-9b32-bd80ed46822b@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.93.1428417164.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <d6e7bb84-3810-435a-bd7a-ad45da86f906@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.108.1428424459.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <9fd13f49-8bfa-43ef-8787-21d5c76a6268@googlegroups.com>
 <CALwzidnbnbttdd+ow+gYg2-y8KDTAzXfEJ4c19OkEN=eOH2rLw@mail.gmail.com>
 <mg1973$lj6$1@ger.gmane.org>
 <mailman.112.1428434424.12925.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <87384bzqlx.fsf@bsb.me.uk>

Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly at gmail.com> writes:

> On Tue, Apr 7, 2015 at 12:55 PM, Terry Reedy <tjreedy at udel.edu> wrote:
>> On 4/7/2015 1:44 PM, Ian Kelly wrote:
>>
>>>>>> def to_base(number, base):
>>>
>>> ...     digits = []
>>> ...     while number > 0:
>>> ...         digits.append(number % base)
>>> ...         number //= base
>>> ...     return digits or [0]
>>> ...
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> to_base(2932903594368438384328325832983294832483258958495845849584958458435439543858588435856958650865490,
>>>>>> 429496729)
>>>
>>> [27626525, 286159541, 134919277, 305018215, 329341598, 48181777,
>>> 79384857, 112868646, 221068759, 70871527, 416507001, 31]
>>> About 15 microseconds.
>>
>>
>> % and probably // call divmod internally and toss one of the results.
>> Slightly faster (5.7 versus 6.1 microseconds on my machine) is
>
> Not on my box.
>
> $ python3 -m timeit -s "n = 1000000; x = 42" "n % x; n // x"
> 10000000 loops, best of 3: 0.105 usec per loop
> $ python3 -m timeit -s "n = 1000000; x = 42" "divmod(n,x)"
> 10000000 loops, best of 3: 0.124 usec per loop

I get similar results, but the times switch over when n is large enough
to become a bignum.

-- 
Ben.


From ian.g.kelly at gmail.com  Tue Apr  7 15:28:29 2015
From: ian.g.kelly at gmail.com (Ian Kelly)
Date: Tue, 7 Apr 2015 13:28:29 -0600
Subject: Best search algorithm to find condition within a range
In-Reply-To: <CALwzidnbRyohkShd=2J5rVDRS+DdgpSfVvJXtn2xEkC3CM1BoQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <2e3a3c01-20b3-4948-9b32-bd80ed46822b@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.93.1428417164.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <d6e7bb84-3810-435a-bd7a-ad45da86f906@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.108.1428424459.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <9fd13f49-8bfa-43ef-8787-21d5c76a6268@googlegroups.com>
 <CALwzidnbnbttdd+ow+gYg2-y8KDTAzXfEJ4c19OkEN=eOH2rLw@mail.gmail.com>
 <mg1973$lj6$1@ger.gmane.org>
 <CALwzidnbRyohkShd=2J5rVDRS+DdgpSfVvJXtn2xEkC3CM1BoQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CALwzidmvhrM9Kr9z6Kv273=bgNS5w7qa1dagWAVJFzXtVGB16A@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Apr 7, 2015 at 1:19 PM, Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Tue, Apr 7, 2015 at 12:55 PM, Terry Reedy <tjreedy at udel.edu> wrote:
>> On 4/7/2015 1:44 PM, Ian Kelly wrote:
>>
>>>>>> def to_base(number, base):
>>>
>>> ...     digits = []
>>> ...     while number > 0:
>>> ...         digits.append(number % base)
>>> ...         number //= base
>>> ...     return digits or [0]
>>> ...
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> to_base(2932903594368438384328325832983294832483258958495845849584958458435439543858588435856958650865490,
>>>>>> 429496729)
>>>
>>> [27626525, 286159541, 134919277, 305018215, 329341598, 48181777,
>>> 79384857, 112868646, 221068759, 70871527, 416507001, 31]
>>> About 15 microseconds.
>>
>>
>> % and probably // call divmod internally and toss one of the results.
>> Slightly faster (5.7 versus 6.1 microseconds on my machine) is
>
> Not on my box.
>
> $ python3 -m timeit -s "n = 1000000; x = 42" "n % x; n // x"
> 10000000 loops, best of 3: 0.105 usec per loop
> $ python3 -m timeit -s "n = 1000000; x = 42" "divmod(n,x)"
> 10000000 loops, best of 3: 0.124 usec per loop

But curiously, if I time the whole function, then my results mirror
yours; I wonder why that is. I don't see anything obvious in the
disassembly that would explain it.


From kurt_heiss at symantec40.com  Tue Apr  7 15:55:33 2015
From: kurt_heiss at symantec40.com (kurt_heiss at symantec40.com)
Date: Tue, 7 Apr 2015 12:55:33 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Could not find any downloads that satisfy the requirement novaclient
Message-ID: <cefec885-1d63-4f54-aa4c-a4cba31e24ef@googlegroups.com>

Hi-

While trying to install an OpenStack client on Mac OSX, I get the following:

SymMacToolkit-C02N4H9DG3QD:/ kurt_heiss$ sudo pip install novaclient
Password:
The directory '/Users/kurt_heiss/Library/Logs/pip' or its parent directory is not owned by the current user and the debug log has been disabled. Please check the permissions and owner of that directory. If executing pip with sudo, you may want the -H flag.
The directory '/Users/kurt_heiss/Library/Caches/pip/http' or its parent directory is not owned by the current user and the cache has been disabled. Please check the permissions and owner of that directory. If executing pip with sudo, you may want the -H flag.
The directory '/Users/kurt_heiss/Library/Caches/pip/http' or its parent directory is not owned by the current user and the cache has been disabled. Please check the permissions and owner of that directory. If executing pip with sudo, you may want the -H flag.
Collecting novaclient
  Could not find any downloads that satisfy the requirement novaclient
  No distributions at all found for novaclient
SymMacToolkit-C02N4H9DG3QD:/ kurt_heiss$ 

I changed the permissions on the identified folders as well as tried the -H option to no positive result.

Anybody encounter this issue or suggest a possible workaround?


From ian.g.kelly at gmail.com  Tue Apr  7 16:15:35 2015
From: ian.g.kelly at gmail.com (Ian Kelly)
Date: Tue, 7 Apr 2015 14:15:35 -0600
Subject: Best search algorithm to find condition within a range
In-Reply-To: <d6e7bb84-3810-435a-bd7a-ad45da86f906@googlegroups.com>
References: <2e3a3c01-20b3-4948-9b32-bd80ed46822b@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.93.1428417164.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <d6e7bb84-3810-435a-bd7a-ad45da86f906@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <CALwzidmFaYmWxBh5rVaoARyEhW=THnWRsobmB+2-T9GXYSudrg@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Apr 7, 2015 at 9:40 AM,  <jonas.thornvall at gmail.com> wrote:
> Well of course you use same principles like a binary search setting min and max, closing in on the digit. In this case the searched numbers  > base^exp  and number< base^exp+1.
>
> But since the search is within large bases upto 32-bit space, so base 4294967295 is the biggest allowed. I need to find the nearest less exp in base for each (lets call them pseudo digits). But as you see there it will take time to add them up. So better doing a binary search, you know min-max half (iteration). You can do the same for a random oracle min max within range, and if the number of tries in general over 22 i think a random oracle do it better than a binary search.

Okay, so you're talking about doing a binary search but picking the
partition point randomly instead of evenly?

> It was a long time since i did this, but i do know there is a threshold where searching min max with the oracle will be faster than the binary search.

I don't know where you got this idea from, but it's fiction. If you
split the space in half, then you are always reducing the amount of
work remaining by a factor of 2, and the total work is O(log n). If
you do an uneven split, then while you will sometimes make a good
partition and reduce the amount of work by more than a factor of two,
more often the target will be in the larger subspace and you will have
reduced the amount of work by less than a factor of two. In the worst
case of this, you only remove one element from the search space at a
time and end up with a linear search.

As a demonstration of this, here's a function which does a binary
search for a number in a range and returns the number of partitions it
had to perform to find the number:

>>> def binsearch(n, min, max):
...   if min == max: return 0
...   med = (max + min) // 2
...   if n <= med:
...     return 1 + binsearch(n, min, med)
...   else:
...     return 1 + binsearch(n, med+1, max)
...

And here's the average number of partitions needed to find a number in
various ranges:

>>> sum(binsearch(i, 1, n) for i in range(1, n+1)) / n
16.68928
>>> n = 1000000
>>> sum(binsearch(i, 1, n) for i in range(1, n+1)) / n
19.951424
>>> n = 10000000
>>> sum(binsearch(i, 1, n) for i in range(1, n+1)) / n
23.3222784

Now let's try a variant function that splits the range at one third
instead of evenly:

>>> def trisearch(n, min, max):
...     if min == max: return 0
...     tern = (min + min + max) // 3
...     if n <= tern:
...         return 1 + trisearch(n, min, tern)
...     else:
...         return 1 + trisearch(n, tern+1, max)
...
>>> n = 100000
>>> sum(trisearch(i, 1, n) for i in range(1, n+1)) / n
17.88387
>>> n = 1000000
>>> sum(trisearch(i, 1, n) for i in range(1, n+1)) / n
21.502276
>>> n = 10000000
>>> sum(trisearch(i, 1, n) for i in range(1, n+1)) / n
25.1157592

The ternary version invariably takes more partitions on average to
find the goal number. Now let's try a third variant that partitions
the range randomly:

>>> def randsearch(n, min, max):
...     if min == max: return 0
...     part = randrange(min, max)
...     if n <= part:
...         return 1 + randsearch(n, min, part)
...     else:
...         return 1 + randsearch(n, part+1, max)
...
>>> n = 100000
>>> sum(randsearch(i, 1, n) for i in range(1, n+1)) / n
22.17863
>>> n = 1000000
>>> sum(randsearch(i, 1, n) for i in range(1, n+1)) / n
26.78371
>>> n = 10000000
>>> sum(randsearch(i, 1, n) for i in range(1, n+1)) / n
31.3916557

As you can see, this one does a lot worse on average, and at n=1e6
it's already performing worse than either of the previous versions did
at n=1e7.  I'm not even going to try this for n=1e8 because it would
take too long to run.


From breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk  Tue Apr  7 16:42:02 2015
From: breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk (Mark Lawrence)
Date: Tue, 07 Apr 2015 21:42:02 +0100
Subject: Best search algorithm to find condition within a range
In-Reply-To: <552406F6.6050402@davea.name>
References: <2e3a3c01-20b3-4948-9b32-bd80ed46822b@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.93.1428417164.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <d6e7bb84-3810-435a-bd7a-ad45da86f906@googlegroups.com>
 <552406F6.6050402@davea.name>
Message-ID: <mg1ff0$861$1@ger.gmane.org>

On 07/04/2015 17:33, Dave Angel wrote:
> On 04/07/2015 11:40 AM, jonas.thornvall at gmail.com wrote:
>
> I haven't seen one line of Python from you yet, so perhaps you're just
> yanking our chain.
>

This wouldn't surprise me, he's the guy who refused point blank to 
modify his use of gg some 18 months ago.

-- 
My fellow Pythonistas, ask not what our language can do for you, ask
what you can do for our language.

Mark Lawrence



From storchaka at gmail.com  Tue Apr  7 16:57:50 2015
From: storchaka at gmail.com (Serhiy Storchaka)
Date: Tue, 07 Apr 2015 23:57:50 +0300
Subject: Best search algorithm to find condition within a range
In-Reply-To: <CALwzidmvhrM9Kr9z6Kv273=bgNS5w7qa1dagWAVJFzXtVGB16A@mail.gmail.com>
References: <2e3a3c01-20b3-4948-9b32-bd80ed46822b@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.93.1428417164.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <d6e7bb84-3810-435a-bd7a-ad45da86f906@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.108.1428424459.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <9fd13f49-8bfa-43ef-8787-21d5c76a6268@googlegroups.com>
 <CALwzidnbnbttdd+ow+gYg2-y8KDTAzXfEJ4c19OkEN=eOH2rLw@mail.gmail.com>
 <mg1973$lj6$1@ger.gmane.org>
 <CALwzidnbRyohkShd=2J5rVDRS+DdgpSfVvJXtn2xEkC3CM1BoQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CALwzidmvhrM9Kr9z6Kv273=bgNS5w7qa1dagWAVJFzXtVGB16A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <mg1gce$grh$1@ger.gmane.org>

On 07.04.15 22:28, Ian Kelly wrote:
> On Tue, Apr 7, 2015 at 1:19 PM, Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly at gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Tue, Apr 7, 2015 at 12:55 PM, Terry Reedy <tjreedy at udel.edu> wrote:
>>> % and probably // call divmod internally and toss one of the results.
>>> Slightly faster (5.7 versus 6.1 microseconds on my machine) is
>>
>> Not on my box.
>>
>> $ python3 -m timeit -s "n = 1000000; x = 42" "n % x; n // x"
>> 10000000 loops, best of 3: 0.105 usec per loop
>> $ python3 -m timeit -s "n = 1000000; x = 42" "divmod(n,x)"
>> 10000000 loops, best of 3: 0.124 usec per loop
>
> But curiously, if I time the whole function, then my results mirror
> yours; I wonder why that is. I don't see anything obvious in the
> disassembly that would explain it.

Try large numbers.



From cs at zip.com.au  Tue Apr  7 18:06:55 2015
From: cs at zip.com.au (Cameron Simpson)
Date: Wed, 8 Apr 2015 08:06:55 +1000
Subject: Help with pipes, buffering and pseudoterminals
In-Reply-To: <CAPTjJmoQQ_4-hONHyEw9QTj-UbMN8yJpMOkEfRwFvAZeyiX8Aw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAPTjJmoQQ_4-hONHyEw9QTj-UbMN8yJpMOkEfRwFvAZeyiX8Aw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20150407220655.GA71015@cskk.homeip.net>

On 07Apr2015 20:38, Chris Angelico <rosuav at gmail.com> wrote:
>On Tue, Apr 7, 2015 at 3:48 PM, Cameron Simpson <cs at zip.com.au> wrote:
>> The operating system arranges the commection of the shell to the terminal.
>> Your usual program has by default a stdin, stdout and stderr. These are
>> _all_ the same file handle, duplicated to each of the three file descriptors
>> 0, 1 and 2 respectively. On the operating system side, the OS has performed
>> _one_ open() call on the terminal device and handed the caller a single file
>> descriptor. The caller then calls dup() (or modernly, dup2()) to present the
>> open terminal as stdin, stdout and stderr.
>
>Really? I can believe that stdout and stderr are initially duplicates,
>but stdin as well? Isn't stdin opened for reading only, and
>stdout/stderr for writing only?

No. Have a look with lsof:

  lsof -p $$

in a terminal.

>I grew up on DOS and OS/2, not on Unix, so maybe there's a massive
>simplification here that I'm not aware of. That'd be pretty clean and
>tidy if what you say is the case!

The setup is very simple: open the tty for read/write, close everything else, 
dup the tty to fds 0, 1 and 2, make the tty the child's controlling terminal.  
There's a little housekeeping like setting tty modes (erase and kill 
characters, so forth) and putting the child in its own process group, but the 
basics are as stated.

Cheers,
Cameron Simpson <cs at zip.com.au>

TeX: When you pronounce it correctly to your computer, the terminal may
     become slightly moist.     - D. E. Knuth.


From ian.g.kelly at gmail.com  Tue Apr  7 18:28:44 2015
From: ian.g.kelly at gmail.com (Ian Kelly)
Date: Tue, 7 Apr 2015 16:28:44 -0600
Subject: Help with pipes, buffering and pseudoterminals
In-Reply-To: <20150407220655.GA71015@cskk.homeip.net>
References: <CAPTjJmoQQ_4-hONHyEw9QTj-UbMN8yJpMOkEfRwFvAZeyiX8Aw@mail.gmail.com>
 <20150407220655.GA71015@cskk.homeip.net>
Message-ID: <CALwzid=q6jT2ziG7k2wBOOTxR1oCV4c7TvL1xJGnv8meFPVdPA@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Apr 7, 2015 at 4:06 PM, Cameron Simpson <cs at zip.com.au> wrote:
> On 07Apr2015 20:38, Chris Angelico <rosuav at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> On Tue, Apr 7, 2015 at 3:48 PM, Cameron Simpson <cs at zip.com.au> wrote:
>>>
>>> The operating system arranges the commection of the shell to the
>>> terminal.
>>> Your usual program has by default a stdin, stdout and stderr. These are
>>> _all_ the same file handle, duplicated to each of the three file
>>> descriptors
>>> 0, 1 and 2 respectively. On the operating system side, the OS has
>>> performed
>>> _one_ open() call on the terminal device and handed the caller a single
>>> file
>>> descriptor. The caller then calls dup() (or modernly, dup2()) to present
>>> the
>>> open terminal as stdin, stdout and stderr.
>>
>>
>> Really? I can believe that stdout and stderr are initially duplicates,
>> but stdin as well? Isn't stdin opened for reading only, and
>> stdout/stderr for writing only?
>
>
> No. Have a look with lsof:
>
>  lsof -p $$
>
> in a terminal.

sys.stdin and sys.stdout are distinct, uni-directional io objects. At
a lower level though, the only thing stopping you from calling
os.write on fd 0 or os.read on fd 1 or 2 is convention.


From jonas.thornvall at gmail.com  Tue Apr  7 18:35:02 2015
From: jonas.thornvall at gmail.com (jonas.thornvall at gmail.com)
Date: Tue, 7 Apr 2015 15:35:02 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Best search algorithm to find condition within a range
In-Reply-To: <87384bzqlx.fsf@bsb.me.uk>
References: <2e3a3c01-20b3-4948-9b32-bd80ed46822b@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.93.1428417164.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <d6e7bb84-3810-435a-bd7a-ad45da86f906@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.108.1428424459.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <9fd13f49-8bfa-43ef-8787-21d5c76a6268@googlegroups.com>
 <CALwzidnbnbttdd+ow+gYg2-y8KDTAzXfEJ4c19OkEN=eOH2rLw@mail.gmail.com>
 <mg1973$lj6$1@ger.gmane.org>
 <mailman.112.1428434424.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <87384bzqlx.fsf@bsb.me.uk>
Message-ID: <f6e43453-faa7-4243-ae4e-ad78e17d0966@googlegroups.com>

Den tisdag 7 april 2015 kl. 21:27:20 UTC+2 skrev Ben Bacarisse:
> Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly at gmail.com> writes:
> 
> > On Tue, Apr 7, 2015 at 12:55 PM, Terry Reedy <tjreedy at udel.edu> wrote:
> >> On 4/7/2015 1:44 PM, Ian Kelly wrote:
> >>
> >>>>>> def to_base(number, base):
> >>>
> >>> ...     digits = []
> >>> ...     while number > 0:
> >>> ...         digits.append(number % base)
> >>> ...         number //= base
> >>> ...     return digits or [0]
> >>> ...
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> to_base(2932903594368438384328325832983294832483258958495845849584958458435439543858588435856958650865490,
> >>>>>> 429496729)
> >>>
> >>> [27626525, 286159541, 134919277, 305018215, 329341598, 48181777,
> >>> 79384857, 112868646, 221068759, 70871527, 416507001, 31]
> >>> About 15 microseconds.
> >>
> >>
> >> % and probably // call divmod internally and toss one of the results.
> >> Slightly faster (5.7 versus 6.1 microseconds on my machine) is
> >
> > Not on my box.
> >
> > $ python3 -m timeit -s "n = 1000000; x = 42" "n % x; n // x"
> > 10000000 loops, best of 3: 0.105 usec per loop
> > $ python3 -m timeit -s "n = 1000000; x = 42" "divmod(n,x)"
> > 10000000 loops, best of 3: 0.124 usec per loop
> 
> I get similar results, but the times switch over when n is large enough
> to become a bignum.
> 
> -- 
> Ben.

I am not sure you guys realised, that althoug the size of the factors to muliply expands according to base^(exp+1) for each digitplace the number of comparissons needed to reach the digit place (multiple of base^exp+1) is constant with my approach/method.


From steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info  Tue Apr  7 18:36:58 2015
From: steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: Wed, 08 Apr 2015 08:36:58 +1000
Subject: Best search algorithm to find condition within a range
References: <2e3a3c01-20b3-4948-9b32-bd80ed46822b@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.89.1428413413.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <mg0pjk$8qs$2@dont-email.me>
 <fd544688-5e9c-418e-9ca9-11b9bcb83186@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <55245c0b$0$13010$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

On Wed, 8 Apr 2015 12:36 am, jonas.thornvall at gmail.com wrote:

> Bullshit declare two integers in any language one 7 and one 4 and then
> write x=7+4; if you find a programming language where that does not yield
> 11 tell me.

In Forth, you can set the base to any arbitrary integer (within reason).

steve at orac:/home/steve$ gforth
Gforth 0.7.0, Copyright (C) 1995-2008 Free Software Foundation, Inc.
Gforth comes with ABSOLUTELY NO WARRANTY; for details type `license'
Type `bye' to exit
7 4 + . 11  ok
hex  ok
7 4 + . B  ok
7 4 +   ok
2 base !  ok
. 1011  ok


The dot . prints the value on the top of the stack. In Python terms, the
closest equivalent would be:

print (7 + 4)  # prints 11 by default
# set the base to hex
print (7 + 4)  # prints B
x = 7 + 4
# set the base to 2
print (x)  # prints 1011


except that Python doesn't allow you to change the base used by ints, it is
always decimal.

In Forth, however, setting the base doesn't just change the *display* of
integers, it also changes how you enter them:

3
:7: Undefined word
>>>3<<<
Backtrace:
$B7252EDC throw
$B725F638 no.extensions
$B7253054 interpreter-notfound1
  ok


So in base 2 mode, it doesn't recognise 3 as a number. If I want to enter
three, I have to enter it in binary:

11  ok
decimal  ok
. 3  ok



> Integers are internally assumed to be base 10 otherwise you could not
> calculate without giving the base.


That is *absolutely not* the case in Forth. It's not even the case in
Python: integers are actually stored in either binary (base 2) or some very
large base, I think equivalent to base 256, depending on the version of
Python and the size of the int. 


> All operations on integers addition, subtraction, multiplication and
> division assume base 10.

That's just ridiculous.

In Python, like most other languages, the only thing which assumes base 10
is entry and printing of integers.




-- 
Steven



From kai.peters at gmail.com  Tue Apr  7 18:43:23 2015
From: kai.peters at gmail.com (kai.peters at gmail.com)
Date: Tue, 7 Apr 2015 15:43:23 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Code critique please
Message-ID: <53f4c2fd-a20c-4d09-8719-8f3f9b80670b@googlegroups.com>

I just wrote this bit (coming from Pascal) and am wondering how seasoned Python programmers would have done the same? Anything terribly non-python?

As always, thanks for all input.

K



"""
 Creates a PNG image from EPD file
"""

import os, sys
from PIL import Image, ImageFont, ImageDraw

# -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
def RenderByte(draw, byte, x, y):

    blist = list(bin(byte).lstrip('0b')) # turn byte into list with 8 elements, 
    c = 0                                # each representing one bit
    for bit in blist:                   
        if bit:                
            draw.point((x + c, y), fcolor)
            
        c += 1
    return

# -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
def EPD_2_Image(edpfilename, imagefilename):
    
    # get out of here if EPD file not present
    if not os.path.isfile(epdfilename):
        print 'file not found: ' + edpfilename
        return
    
    # is this a valid EPD file?
    filesize = os.path.getsize(epdfilename)
    if (((xdim / 8) * ydim) + header) <> filesize:
        print 'incorrect file size: ' + edpfilename
        return
    
    # blow old destination file away 
    if os.path.isfile(imagefilename):
        print 'deleting old dest. file: ' + imagefilename
        os.remove(imagefilename)

    print 'processing...'
    
    # set up PIL objects
    img  = Image.new('1', (xdim, ydim), bcolor)   # '1' = Bi-tonal image
    draw = ImageDraw.Draw(img)
    
    # read entire EPD file into byte array (without the header)
    content = bytearray(open(epdfilename, 'rb').read())[16:] 
     
    # image coord origin at top/left according to PIL documentation
    pos = 0
    for y in range(ydim): 
        x = 0
        for byte in range(xdim / 8):   # 8 pixels 'stuffed' into one byte
            RenderByte(draw, content[pos], x, y)
            pos += 1           
            x   += 8

    img.save(imagefilename)   # format is inferred from given extension
    print 'done.'
    
    return
# -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
    
xdim   = 1024
ydim   = 1280
header = 16
black  = 0
white  = 1
bcolor = black
fcolor = white

epdfilename   = 'c:\\temp\\drawtest2.epd'
imagefilename = 'c:\\temp\\drawtest2.png'

EPD_2_Image(epdfilename, imagefilename)


From cs at zip.com.au  Tue Apr  7 18:51:24 2015
From: cs at zip.com.au (Cameron Simpson)
Date: Wed, 8 Apr 2015 08:51:24 +1000
Subject: Best search algorithm to find condition within a range
In-Reply-To: <55245c0b$0$13010$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
References: <55245c0b$0$13010$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <20150407225124.GA90959@cskk.homeip.net>

On 08Apr2015 08:36, Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info> wrote:
>On Wed, 8 Apr 2015 12:36 am, jonas.thornvall at gmail.com wrote:
>> Bullshit declare two integers in any language one 7 and one 4 and then
>> write x=7+4; if you find a programming language where that does not yield
>> 11 tell me.
>
>In Forth, you can set the base to any arbitrary integer (within reason).
[...snip...]

In dc also (UNIX's reverse polish arbitrary precision "decimal calculator").  
You can set the input and output representation bases, and proceed without 
leading base indicators.

Cheers,
Cameron Simpson <cs at zip.com.au>

Hofstadter's Law: It always takes longer than you expect, even when you take
into account Hofstadter's Law.
- Douglas Hosfstadter, Godel, Escher, Bach: an Eternal Golden Braid


From steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info  Tue Apr  7 18:51:50 2015
From: steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: Wed, 08 Apr 2015 08:51:50 +1000
Subject: Best search algorithm to find condition within a range
References: <2e3a3c01-20b3-4948-9b32-bd80ed46822b@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.89.1428413413.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <mg0pjk$8qs$2@dont-email.me>
 <fd544688-5e9c-418e-9ca9-11b9bcb83186@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.97.1428418825.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <9616a040-fcb4-4edf-9570-145f8be99d92@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <55245f87$0$12986$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

On Wed, 8 Apr 2015 01:43 am, jonas.thornvall at gmail.com wrote:

> No that is not what i am saying, i am saying if you do operations on two
> integers the machine will assume base 10.


We understand what you are saying. You are simply WRONG.

There hasn't been a machine in common use that used other than binary for
integers for probably forty years now, and there has *never* been a PC that
has used other than binary for integers. When you write 12345 as an integer
in a programming language, it is NOT stored internally as five decimal
digits 1 2 3 4 5 in *nearly all languages*. There might be one or two
exceptions, e.g. Hypertalk would store it as a string of bytes 0x3132333435
in hexadecimal, or in binary 0011000100110010001100110011010000110101.

(As you can guess, Hypertalk is not the most efficient of languages.)

But most languages will store the decimal int 12345 in binary:

0011000000111001  # 16 bit word size

00000000000000000011000000111001  # 32 bit word size

(Ignoring Big Endian/Little Endian issues -- some machines store the bytes
the other way around.)

The fact is computer languages automatically convert source code from
(usually) decimal base to whatever their internal storage format uses,
which is normally base 2. They don't work in decimal, using the same
decimal routines you learned in school.



-- 
Steven



From steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info  Tue Apr  7 18:55:19 2015
From: steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: Wed, 08 Apr 2015 08:55:19 +1000
Subject: Best search algorithm to find condition within a range
References: <2e3a3c01-20b3-4948-9b32-bd80ed46822b@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.93.1428417164.12925.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <55246057$0$12986$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

On Wed, 8 Apr 2015 12:32 am, Ian Kelly wrote:

> On average, a random Oracle with a search space of 1000000 will need
> 1000000 guesses.

Surely on average it will only take 500000 guesses?

Best case is that it gets lucky the first time (1 guess). Worst case is that
it guesses every wrong answer until there is only one answer it hasn't
given, which is right (1000000 guesses). I assume that the Oracle is smart
enough to never repeat a guess.


-- 
Steven



From steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info  Tue Apr  7 18:57:15 2015
From: steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: Wed, 08 Apr 2015 08:57:15 +1000
Subject: Best search algorithm to find condition within a range
References: <2e3a3c01-20b3-4948-9b32-bd80ed46822b@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <552460cc$0$13002$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

On Tue, 7 Apr 2015 07:44 pm, jonas.thornvall at gmail.com wrote:


> I want todo faster baseconversion for very big bases like base 1 000 000,
> so instead of adding up digits i search it.

What digits would you use for base one-million?

Base 2 uses 0 1.
Base 3 uses 0 1 2.
Base 10 uses 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9.
Base 16 uses 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 A B C D E F.

Base one million uses what?

How would you write down 12345 in base one-million?



-- 
Steven



From ian.g.kelly at gmail.com  Tue Apr  7 19:25:21 2015
From: ian.g.kelly at gmail.com (Ian Kelly)
Date: Tue, 7 Apr 2015 17:25:21 -0600
Subject: Code critique please
In-Reply-To: <53f4c2fd-a20c-4d09-8719-8f3f9b80670b@googlegroups.com>
References: <53f4c2fd-a20c-4d09-8719-8f3f9b80670b@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <CALwzid=z_QeYynQJ-4j-YD_RsXv86LUUA0Agqs60Xy99eP5EzA@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Apr 7, 2015 at 4:43 PM,  <kai.peters at gmail.com> wrote:
> def RenderByte(draw, byte, x, y):

Python function and method names customarily use the
lowercase_with_underscores style.

>     blist = list(bin(byte).lstrip('0b')) # turn byte into list with 8 elements,

There's no guarantee that the resulting list will have 8 elements
here. The result of bin() will use the minimum number of digits needed
to represent the value, which has nothing to do with the size of a
byte. If you want exactly 8, use str.zfill to add zeroes.

Also, lstrip('0b') will remove *all* occurrences of the characters '0'
and 'b' from the left of the string, not just the exact substring
'0b'. So for example, bin(0).lstrip('0b') would return the empty
string since all the characters in the string are either '0' or 'b'.

That said, all this string manipulation to convert from an int to a
list of bits smells a bit funky to me. I'd probably write a generator
to yield the bits from the number. Something like:

    def bits(number, length=None):
        if length is None:
            length = number.bit_length()
        for i in range(length):
            yield (number >> i) & 1

Now you can iterate directly over bits(byte, 8), or if you really want
a list then you can call list(bits(byte, 8)).

>     c = 0                                # each representing one bit
>     for bit in blist:
>         if bit:
>             draw.point((x + c, y), fcolor)
>
>         c += 1

Instead of incrementing c on each loop, use enumerate.

    for c, bit in enumerate(blist):

>     return

Not needed if you're not returning a value. It's perfectly okay to
just let execution "fall off" the end of the function.

>     # get out of here if EPD file not present
>     if not os.path.isfile(epdfilename):
>         print 'file not found: ' + edpfilename

Recommend using print's function syntax for forward compatibility with Python 3:

    print('file not found: ' + edpfilename)

Also consider doing "from __future__ import print_function" at the top
of the file so that print really is a function, although it doesn't
matter in this case.

> xdim   = 1024
> ydim   = 1280
> header = 16
> black  = 0
> white  = 1
> bcolor = black
> fcolor = white

Constants, particularly global ones, are conventionally
UPPERCASE_WITH_UNDERSCORES.

> EPD_2_Image(epdfilename, imagefilename)

If you use the construct

    if __name__ == '__main__':
        EPD_2_Image(epdfilename, imagefilename)

then the function will automatically be called when the file is
executed as a script, but it will also let you import the file from
other modules and call it on your own terms, should you ever desire to
do that.


From ian.g.kelly at gmail.com  Tue Apr  7 19:30:32 2015
From: ian.g.kelly at gmail.com (Ian Kelly)
Date: Tue, 7 Apr 2015 17:30:32 -0600
Subject: Best search algorithm to find condition within a range
In-Reply-To: <55246057$0$12986$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
References: <2e3a3c01-20b3-4948-9b32-bd80ed46822b@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.93.1428417164.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <55246057$0$12986$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <CALwzid=CPugPSqbcXEhqyzWv4wox3UHdNY9LT4qZMRfKUHg3yQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Apr 7, 2015 at 4:55 PM, Steven D'Aprano
<steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info> wrote:
> On Wed, 8 Apr 2015 12:32 am, Ian Kelly wrote:
>
>> On average, a random Oracle with a search space of 1000000 will need
>> 1000000 guesses.
>
> Surely on average it will only take 500000 guesses?
>
> Best case is that it gets lucky the first time (1 guess). Worst case is that
> it guesses every wrong answer until there is only one answer it hasn't
> given, which is right (1000000 guesses). I assume that the Oracle is smart
> enough to never repeat a guess.

I didn't make that assumption. With replacement, the mean is 1000000,
per the binomial distribution.


From ian.g.kelly at gmail.com  Tue Apr  7 19:35:05 2015
From: ian.g.kelly at gmail.com (Ian Kelly)
Date: Tue, 7 Apr 2015 17:35:05 -0600
Subject: Best search algorithm to find condition within a range
In-Reply-To: <f6e43453-faa7-4243-ae4e-ad78e17d0966@googlegroups.com>
References: <2e3a3c01-20b3-4948-9b32-bd80ed46822b@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.93.1428417164.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <d6e7bb84-3810-435a-bd7a-ad45da86f906@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.108.1428424459.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <9fd13f49-8bfa-43ef-8787-21d5c76a6268@googlegroups.com>
 <CALwzidnbnbttdd+ow+gYg2-y8KDTAzXfEJ4c19OkEN=eOH2rLw@mail.gmail.com>
 <mg1973$lj6$1@ger.gmane.org>
 <mailman.112.1428434424.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <87384bzqlx.fsf@bsb.me.uk>
 <f6e43453-faa7-4243-ae4e-ad78e17d0966@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <CALwzidkO_xs6kw+H7Rv71vuhEwFku6nYDcrStATm9gffHnFTJA@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Apr 7, 2015 at 4:35 PM,  <jonas.thornvall at gmail.com> wrote:
> I am not sure you guys realised, that althoug the size of the factors to muliply expands according to base^(exp+1) for each digitplace the number of comparissons needed to reach the digit place (multiple of base^exp+1) is constant with my approach/method.

No it isn't. You do one comparison on every iteration of your while
loop, and you do one iteration for every digit. How is that constant?


From ckaynor at zindagigames.com  Tue Apr  7 19:38:07 2015
From: ckaynor at zindagigames.com (Chris Kaynor)
Date: Tue, 7 Apr 2015 16:38:07 -0700
Subject: Code critique please
In-Reply-To: <53f4c2fd-a20c-4d09-8719-8f3f9b80670b@googlegroups.com>
References: <53f4c2fd-a20c-4d09-8719-8f3f9b80670b@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <CALvWhxvyVbmYy-v2uHDqDZpSKa2rzZfbiY1koYiNBeiF81WN5g@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Apr 7, 2015 at 3:43 PM,  <kai.peters at gmail.com> wrote:
> I just wrote this bit (coming from Pascal) and am wondering how seasoned Python programmers would have done the same? Anything terribly non-python?
>
> As always, thanks for all input.
>
> K
>
>
>
> """
>  Creates a PNG image from EPD file
> """
>
> import os, sys
> from PIL import Image, ImageFont, ImageDraw
>
> # -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
> def RenderByte(draw, byte, x, y):
>
>     blist = list(bin(byte).lstrip('0b')) # turn byte into list with 8 elements,

A couple of comments on this line: lstrip strips based on characters,
and even without that, the 8 elements comment is not correct. bin()
only returns enough to hold the value without leading zeros, and the
lstrip will remove any leading zeros, even if it did produce them.

Additionally, if byte is outside the [0, 255] range, bin could produce
more than 8 elements. Your loop will work in any case, but it may
cause incorrect behavior, and in any case, the comment is wrong.

>     c = 0                                # each representing one bit
>     for bit in blist:
>         if bit:
>             draw.point((x + c, y), fcolor)
>
>         c += 1

Rather than keeping a manual counter, this could be better written
using enumerate:

for c, bit in enumerate(blist):
    if bit:
        draw.point((x + c, y), fcolor)

>     return

This return is unneeded. If a function falls off the end, it
implicitly has a bare "return" at its end. Note that a bare return (or
falling off the end) will cause the function to return None (all
functions have a return value).

>
> # -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
> def EPD_2_Image(edpfilename, imagefilename):
>
>     # get out of here if EPD file not present
>     if not os.path.isfile(epdfilename):
>         print 'file not found: ' + edpfilename
>         return
>
>     # is this a valid EPD file?
>     filesize = os.path.getsize(epdfilename)
>     if (((xdim / 8) * ydim) + header) <> filesize:
>         print 'incorrect file size: ' + edpfilename
>         return

Both of these would probably be better as exceptions, rather than
prints. When running the function via a batch script, you can always
catch the exception and do something with it, while with a print, the
caller will have a hard time determining whether the function worked
or not. This could be important if you ever try to wrap this function
into a GUI (you may want a dialog rather than a command prompt
textural error, on stdout no less), or call the function with
batching, where you may want to report the failures via other means
(collect them all and include them in an e-mail report, for example).

For example, "raise OSError('file not found' + edpfilename)". Also, in
Python, the perfered dogma is "better to ask forgiveness than
permission" (aka, try the operation and let it fail if invalid),
rather than "look before you leap" (validate correct inputs, and fail
early). Basically, in this case, you could just remove the first check
(the second is probably worthwhile), and let the getsize fail if the
file does not exist.

Raising the exceptions will play better with batching (its easier to
detect errors and report them en-mass after processing). Avoiding LBYL
is generally useful for files in case other processes mess with them
after your check.

>
>     # blow old destination file away
>     if os.path.isfile(imagefilename):
>         print 'deleting old dest. file: ' + imagefilename
>         os.remove(imagefilename)

This is probably unneeded, and could cause issues with deleting the
file then failing out for various reasons. I generally prefer to leave
files intact until the last possible second. Thi sis nice if the code
fails for some reason.

>
>     print 'processing...'
>
>     # set up PIL objects
>     img  = Image.new('1', (xdim, ydim), bcolor)   # '1' = Bi-tonal image
>     draw = ImageDraw.Draw(img)
>
>     # read entire EPD file into byte array (without the header)
>     content = bytearray(open(epdfilename, 'rb').read())[16:]
>
>     # image coord origin at top/left according to PIL documentation
>     pos = 0
>     for y in range(ydim):
>         x = 0
>         for byte in range(xdim / 8):   # 8 pixels 'stuffed' into one byte
>             RenderByte(draw, content[pos], x, y)
>             pos += 1
>             x   += 8
>
>     img.save(imagefilename)   # format is inferred from given extension
>     print 'done.'
>
>     return
> # -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> xdim   = 1024
> ydim   = 1280
> header = 16
> black  = 0
> white  = 1
> bcolor = black
> fcolor = white

By convention, constants in Python are denoted by using all capital
letters with under scores.

>
> epdfilename   = 'c:\\temp\\drawtest2.epd'
> imagefilename = 'c:\\temp\\drawtest2.png'
>
> EPD_2_Image(epdfilename, imagefilename)
> --
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list


From cs at zip.com.au  Tue Apr  7 19:49:18 2015
From: cs at zip.com.au (Cameron Simpson)
Date: Wed, 8 Apr 2015 09:49:18 +1000
Subject: Code critique please
In-Reply-To: <53f4c2fd-a20c-4d09-8719-8f3f9b80670b@googlegroups.com>
References: <53f4c2fd-a20c-4d09-8719-8f3f9b80670b@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <20150407234918.GA99794@cskk.homeip.net>

On 07Apr2015 15:43, kai.peters at gmail.com <kai.peters at gmail.com> wrote:
>I just wrote this bit (coming from Pascal) and am wondering how seasoned Python programmers would have done the same? Anything terribly non-python?
>
>As always, thanks for all input.
>K
>
>"""
> Creates a PNG image from EPD file
>"""
>
>import os, sys
>from PIL import Image, ImageFont, ImageDraw
>
># -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>def RenderByte(draw, byte, x, y):
>    blist = list(bin(byte).lstrip('0b')) # turn byte into list with 8 elements,

Remark: .lstrip does not do what you think.
You want:

    blist = list(bin(byte)[2:]) # turn byte into list with 8 elements,

to skip over the leading "0b". Otherwise, with lstrip, consider what would 
happen with a low value byte, with multiple leading zeroes. (Actually, on 
reflection, you might get away with it - but probably not, and anyway would be 
fragile against changing the ordering of the bits.)

I'd be popping off the least or most siginificant bit myself with "&" and "<<" 
or ">>". It might be wordier, bit it would be more in keeping with the actual 
bitwise operations going on.

>    c = 0                                # each representing one bit
>    for bit in blist:
>        if bit:
>            draw.point((x + c, y), fcolor)
>        c += 1

This might be more Pythonic written:

  for c, bit in enumerate(blist):

which will emit (0, b0), (1, b1) and so forth for bit 0, bit 1 etc (where bit 0 
is the leftmost from your list, etc). Avoids the "c = 0" and the "c += 1" and 
also makes your loop robust against adding control flows later which might skip 
the final "c += 1" at the end, even by accident.

>    return

You generally do not need a trailing return with no value; it is implicit.

>def EPD_2_Image(edpfilename, imagefilename):
>    # get out of here if EPD file not present
>    if not os.path.isfile(epdfilename):
>        print 'file not found: ' + edpfilename
>        return

Traditionally one would raise an exception instead of returning. Eg:

  if not os.path.isfile(epdfilename):
    raise ValueError("missing file: %r" % (epdfilename,))

and have the caller handle the issue. Similarly for all the other pre-checks 
below.

Also, it is normal for error messages to be directed to sys.stderr (this allows 
them to be logged independently of the program's normal output; for example the 
normal output might be sent to a file, but the error messages would continue to 
be displayed on screen). So were you to iussue a print statement (instead of an 
exception) you would write:

  print >>sys.stderr, ....

or in Python 3:

  print(...., file=sys.stderr)

>    # is this a valid EPD file?
>    filesize = os.path.getsize(epdfilename)
>    if (((xdim / 8) * ydim) + header) <> filesize:
>        print 'incorrect file size: ' + edpfilename
>        return
>
>    # blow old destination file away
>    if os.path.isfile(imagefilename):
>        print 'deleting old dest. file: ' + imagefilename
>        os.remove(imagefilename)
>
>    print 'processing...'
>
>    # set up PIL objects
>    img  = Image.new('1', (xdim, ydim), bcolor)   # '1' = Bi-tonal image
>    draw = ImageDraw.Draw(img)
>
>    # read entire EPD file into byte array (without the header)
>    content = bytearray(open(epdfilename, 'rb').read())[16:]
>
>    # image coord origin at top/left according to PIL documentation
>    pos = 0
>    for y in range(ydim):
>        x = 0
>        for byte in range(xdim / 8):   # 8 pixels 'stuffed' into one byte
>            RenderByte(draw, content[pos], x, y)
>            pos += 1
>            x   += 8
>
>    img.save(imagefilename)   # format is inferred from given extension
>    print 'done.'
>
>    return

Again, this "return" can be implicit.

># -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>xdim   = 1024
>ydim   = 1280
>header = 16
>black  = 0
>white  = 1
>bcolor = black
>fcolor = white
>
>epdfilename   = 'c:\\temp\\drawtest2.epd'
>imagefilename = 'c:\\temp\\drawtest2.png'

Normally these values would be at the top of your program, and named in 
UPPER_CASE to indicate that they are like "constants" in other languages. So 
you might put this:

  XDIM   = 1024
  YDIM   = 1280
  HEADER_SIZE = 16
  BLACK  = 0
  WHITE  = 1
  BCOLOR = BLACK
  FCOLOR = WHITE

  EPD_FILENAME   = 'c:\\temp\\drawtest2.epd'
  IMAGE_FILENAME = 'c:\\temp\\drawtest2.png'

at the top of the script.

I notice you have a bare [16:] in your "content =" line. Should that not say 
"[HEADER_SIZE:]" ?

>EPD_2_Image(epdfilename, imagefilename)

I tend to write things like this as thought they could become python modules 
for reuse. (Often they do; why write something twice?)

So the base of the script becomes like this:

if __name__ == '__main__':
  EPD_2_Image(EPD_FILENAME, IMAGE_FILENAME)

In this way, when you invoke the .py file directly __name__ is "__main__" and 
your function gets run. But it you move this all into a module which may be 
imported, __name__ will be the module name, an so not invoke the main function.  
The importing code can then do so as it sees fit.

Cheers,
Cameron Simpson <cs at zip.com.au>

I heard a funny one this weekend.  I was belaying a friend on a very short
problem and when she was pumped out she told me to "Let me down" and my
other friend that was standing nearby said.  "You were never UP!".
        - Bryan Laws <bryanlaws at aol.com>


From kai.peters at gmail.com  Tue Apr  7 19:51:48 2015
From: kai.peters at gmail.com (kai.peters at gmail.com)
Date: Tue, 7 Apr 2015 16:51:48 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Code critique please
In-Reply-To: <53f4c2fd-a20c-4d09-8719-8f3f9b80670b@googlegroups.com>
References: <53f4c2fd-a20c-4d09-8719-8f3f9b80670b@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <86032a34-07d6-4987-90da-2de72d4b7a74@googlegroups.com>

On Tuesday, 7 April 2015 15:43:44 UTC-7, kai.p... at gmail.com  wrote:
> I just wrote this bit (coming from Pascal) and am wondering how seasoned Python programmers would have done the same? Anything terribly non-python?
> 
> As always, thanks for all input.
> 
> K
> 
> 
> 
> """
>  Creates a PNG image from EPD file
> """
> 
> import os, sys
> from PIL import Image, ImageFont, ImageDraw
> 
> # -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
> def RenderByte(draw, byte, x, y):
> 
>     blist = list(bin(byte).lstrip('0b')) # turn byte into list with 8 elements, 
>     c = 0                                # each representing one bit
>     for bit in blist:                   
>         if bit:                
>             draw.point((x + c, y), fcolor)
>             
>         c += 1
>     return
> 
> # -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
> def EPD_2_Image(edpfilename, imagefilename):
>     
>     # get out of here if EPD file not present
>     if not os.path.isfile(epdfilename):
>         print 'file not found: ' + edpfilename
>         return
>     
>     # is this a valid EPD file?
>     filesize = os.path.getsize(epdfilename)
>     if (((xdim / 8) * ydim) + header) <> filesize:
>         print 'incorrect file size: ' + edpfilename
>         return
>     
>     # blow old destination file away 
>     if os.path.isfile(imagefilename):
>         print 'deleting old dest. file: ' + imagefilename
>         os.remove(imagefilename)
> 
>     print 'processing...'
>     
>     # set up PIL objects
>     img  = Image.new('1', (xdim, ydim), bcolor)   # '1' = Bi-tonal image
>     draw = ImageDraw.Draw(img)
>     
>     # read entire EPD file into byte array (without the header)
>     content = bytearray(open(epdfilename, 'rb').read())[16:] 
>      
>     # image coord origin at top/left according to PIL documentation
>     pos = 0
>     for y in range(ydim): 
>         x = 0
>         for byte in range(xdim / 8):   # 8 pixels 'stuffed' into one byte
>             RenderByte(draw, content[pos], x, y)
>             pos += 1           
>             x   += 8
> 
>     img.save(imagefilename)   # format is inferred from given extension
>     print 'done.'
>     
>     return
> # -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>     
> xdim   = 1024
> ydim   = 1280
> header = 16
> black  = 0
> white  = 1
> bcolor = black
> fcolor = white
> 
> epdfilename   = 'c:\\temp\\drawtest2.epd'
> imagefilename = 'c:\\temp\\drawtest2.png'
> 
> EPD_2_Image(epdfilename, imagefilename)


Thanks for taking the time to give such detailed suggestions - very much appreciated!

K


From steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info  Tue Apr  7 20:18:20 2015
From: steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: Wed, 08 Apr 2015 10:18:20 +1000
Subject: Best search algorithm to find condition within a range
References: <2e3a3c01-20b3-4948-9b32-bd80ed46822b@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.93.1428417164.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <d6e7bb84-3810-435a-bd7a-ad45da86f906@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.108.1428424459.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <9fd13f49-8bfa-43ef-8787-21d5c76a6268@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <552473cd$0$12982$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

On Wed, 8 Apr 2015 03:07 am, jonas.thornvall at gmail.com wrote:

> So you can tell me the first (higest) digit of the integer
>
2932903594368438384328325832983294832483258958495845849584958458435439543858588435856958650865490


First digit:
py> s
= '2932903594368438384328325832983294832483258958495845849584958458435439543858588435856958650865490'
py> s[0]
'2'


Highest digit:

py> max(s)
'9'


> Using base 429496729?

That makes no sense. With base 429496729 you need to have 429496729
different digits. Of course it is possible that, just by chance, you end up
with something that only includes the digits 0 through 9. Of course that is
possible, just like there are decimal numbers which only use digits 0
through 1, e.g. 10001.

If you want to go the other way, and convert s FROM decimal INTO base
429496729, you need to tell us what digits to use. You need 429496729
different digits.


> How long time did it take to find it?

A tiny fraction of a second.

py> from timeit import Timer
py> setup = "s
= '2932903594368438384328325832983294832483258958495845849584958458435439543858588435856958650865490'"
py> t = Timer("s[0]; max(s)", setup)
py> min(t.repeat())
7.158415079116821


That's just over 7 seconds to calculate both the first and the highest digit
one million times, or about 7 microseconds each time.




-- 
Steven



From greg.ewing at canterbury.ac.nz  Tue Apr  7 20:23:24 2015
From: greg.ewing at canterbury.ac.nz (Gregory Ewing)
Date: Wed, 08 Apr 2015 12:23:24 +1200
Subject: Help with pipes, buffering and pseudoterminals
In-Reply-To: <mailman.85.1428403083.12925.python-list@python.org>
References: <CAJGew6=g41cT5QXd51oaVVC5PWCnE5GWYzX5YaqDBwXb0kKUDw@mail.gmail.com>
 <20150407054803.GA80257@cskk.homeip.net>
 <mailman.85.1428403083.12925.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <cojanuFmscU1@mid.individual.net>

Chris Angelico wrote:
> Really? I can believe that stdout and stderr are initially duplicates,
> but stdin as well? Isn't stdin opened for reading only, and
> stdout/stderr for writing only?

It depends entirely on how the process that forked your
shell process set things up, but a quick experiment I
just did in a MacOSX terminal window suggests that it's
not really bothered about that distinction:

sh-3.2$ echo foo >&0
foo

-- 
Greg


From davea at davea.name  Tue Apr  7 20:38:15 2015
From: davea at davea.name (Dave Angel)
Date: Tue, 07 Apr 2015 20:38:15 -0400
Subject: Best search algorithm to find condition within a range
In-Reply-To: <f6e43453-faa7-4243-ae4e-ad78e17d0966@googlegroups.com>
References: <2e3a3c01-20b3-4948-9b32-bd80ed46822b@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.93.1428417164.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <d6e7bb84-3810-435a-bd7a-ad45da86f906@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.108.1428424459.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <9fd13f49-8bfa-43ef-8787-21d5c76a6268@googlegroups.com>
 <CALwzidnbnbttdd+ow+gYg2-y8KDTAzXfEJ4c19OkEN=eOH2rLw@mail.gmail.com>
 <mg1973$lj6$1@ger.gmane.org>
 <mailman.112.1428434424.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <87384bzqlx.fsf@bsb.me.uk>
 <f6e43453-faa7-4243-ae4e-ad78e17d0966@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <55247877.8010304@davea.name>

On 04/07/2015 06:35 PM, jonas.thornvall at gmail.com wrote:
> Den tisdag 7 april 2015 kl. 21:27:20 UTC+2 skrev Ben Bacarisse:
>> Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly at gmail.com> writes:
>>
>>> On Tue, Apr 7, 2015 at 12:55 PM, Terry Reedy <tjreedy at udel.edu> wrote:
>>>> On 4/7/2015 1:44 PM, Ian Kelly wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>>>> def to_base(number, base):
>>>>>
>>>>> ...     digits = []
>>>>> ...     while number > 0:
>>>>> ...         digits.append(number % base)
>>>>> ...         number //= base
>>>>> ...     return digits or [0]
>>>>> ...
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> to_base(2932903594368438384328325832983294832483258958495845849584958458435439543858588435856958650865490,
>>>>>>>> 429496729)
>>>>>
>>>>> [27626525, 286159541, 134919277, 305018215, 329341598, 48181777,
>>>>> 79384857, 112868646, 221068759, 70871527, 416507001, 31]
>>>>> About 15 microseconds.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> % and probably // call divmod internally and toss one of the results.
>>>> Slightly faster (5.7 versus 6.1 microseconds on my machine) is
>>>
>>> Not on my box.
>>>
>>> $ python3 -m timeit -s "n = 1000000; x = 42" "n % x; n // x"
>>> 10000000 loops, best of 3: 0.105 usec per loop
>>> $ python3 -m timeit -s "n = 1000000; x = 42" "divmod(n,x)"
>>> 10000000 loops, best of 3: 0.124 usec per loop
>>
>> I get similar results, but the times switch over when n is large enough
>> to become a bignum.
>>
>> --
>> Ben.
>
> I am not sure you guys realised, that althoug the size of the factors to muliply expands according to base^(exp+1) for each digitplace the number of comparissons needed to reach the digit place (multiple of base^exp+1) is constant with my approach/method.
>

Baloney.

But even if it were true, a search is slower than a divide.



-- 
DaveA


From steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info  Tue Apr  7 20:38:45 2015
From: steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: Wed, 08 Apr 2015 10:38:45 +1000
Subject: Best search algorithm to find condition within a range
References: <2e3a3c01-20b3-4948-9b32-bd80ed46822b@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.93.1428417164.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <d6e7bb84-3810-435a-bd7a-ad45da86f906@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.108.1428424459.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <9fd13f49-8bfa-43ef-8787-21d5c76a6268@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.109.1428428740.12925.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <55247896$0$12995$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

On Wed, 8 Apr 2015 03:44 am, Ian Kelly wrote:

>>>>
to_base(2932903594368438384328325832983294832483258958495845849584958458435439543858588435856958650865490,
>>>> 429496729)
> [27626525, 286159541, 134919277, 305018215, 329341598, 48181777,
> 79384857, 112868646, 221068759, 70871527, 416507001, 31]


They're not exactly *digits* though, are they? Without an easy to use set of
429496729 different symbols, the whole exercise is rather pointless. It's
not more compact: 97 decimal digits, versus 121 characters in the list
representation. 110 if you strip out the spaces between items. It's
certainly not more memory efficient: the long int 293...490 takes 56 bytes,
compared to 80 bytes for just the list, not including the memory used by
its 12 int items. (Results may vary in other versions of Python.) You can't
do arithmetic on it faster than Python's built-ins.

Besides, it isn't clear to me whether Jonas wants to convert decimal
293...490 *into* base 429496729 as you have done, or *base 429496729*
293...490 into decimal.



-- 
Steven



From greg.ewing at canterbury.ac.nz  Tue Apr  7 20:49:01 2015
From: greg.ewing at canterbury.ac.nz (Gregory Ewing)
Date: Wed, 08 Apr 2015 12:49:01 +1200
Subject: Best search algorithm to find condition within a range
In-Reply-To: <b4d8ded0-2e76-4ebd-b6b3-2a5ac195bc40@googlegroups.com>
References: <2e3a3c01-20b3-4948-9b32-bd80ed46822b@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.89.1428413413.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <mg0pjk$8qs$2@dont-email.me>
 <fd544688-5e9c-418e-9ca9-11b9bcb83186@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.99.1428419232.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <b4d8ded0-2e76-4ebd-b6b3-2a5ac195bc40@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <cojc7vF10rmU1@mid.individual.net>

jonas.thornvall at gmail.com wrote:
> No i don't i say the operations assume base ten other wise INT A=7,B=4
> Calculate C=A+B would not yield 11 as an answer.

The answer, when converted to base 10, will still be
11 regardless of the base in which the arithmetic is
performed.

For example, in base 2:

A = 0111   (decimal 7)
B = 0100   (decimal 4)
     ----
C = 1011

Now convert binary 1011 to decimal and see what
you get.

-- 
Greg


From breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk  Tue Apr  7 20:54:35 2015
From: breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk (Mark Lawrence)
Date: Wed, 08 Apr 2015 01:54:35 +0100
Subject: Code critique please
In-Reply-To: <53f4c2fd-a20c-4d09-8719-8f3f9b80670b@googlegroups.com>
References: <53f4c2fd-a20c-4d09-8719-8f3f9b80670b@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <mg1u8g$199$1@ger.gmane.org>

On 07/04/2015 23:43, kai.peters at gmail.com wrote:
> I just wrote this bit (coming from Pascal) and am wondering how seasoned Python programmers would have done the same? Anything terribly non-python?
>
> As always, thanks for all input.
>
> import os, sys
> from PIL import Image, ImageFont, ImageDraw
>

As you've had plenty of answers I'll just say that PIL is pretty old 
now.  Are you aware of the fork called Pillow? 
https://pillow.readthedocs.org/

-- 
My fellow Pythonistas, ask not what our language can do for you, ask
what you can do for our language.

Mark Lawrence



From greg.ewing at canterbury.ac.nz  Tue Apr  7 20:59:55 2015
From: greg.ewing at canterbury.ac.nz (Gregory Ewing)
Date: Wed, 08 Apr 2015 12:59:55 +1200
Subject: Best search algorithm to find condition within a range
In-Reply-To: <552460cc$0$13002$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
References: <2e3a3c01-20b3-4948-9b32-bd80ed46822b@googlegroups.com>
 <552460cc$0$13002$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <cojcseF14qpU1@mid.individual.net>

Steven D'Aprano wrote:

> What digits would you use for base one-million?

Interesting question. Unicode currently has about
75,000 CJK characters, so we would need to find about
12 more independently developed cultures with similar
writing systems to get enough characters. I suggest
revisiting the issue when interstellar travel and
exploration have been better developed.

-- 
Greg


From steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info  Tue Apr  7 21:18:08 2015
From: steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: Wed, 08 Apr 2015 11:18:08 +1000
Subject: Best search algorithm to find condition within a range
References: <2e3a3c01-20b3-4948-9b32-bd80ed46822b@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.93.1428417164.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <d6e7bb84-3810-435a-bd7a-ad45da86f906@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.108.1428424459.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <9fd13f49-8bfa-43ef-8787-21d5c76a6268@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.109.1428428740.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <55247896$0$12995$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <552481d1$0$13005$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

On Wed, 8 Apr 2015 10:38 am, Steven D'Aprano wrote:

> On Wed, 8 Apr 2015 03:44 am, Ian Kelly wrote:
> 
>>>>>
>
to_base(2932903594368438384328325832983294832483258958495845849584958458435439543858588435856958650865490,
>>>>> 429496729)
>> [27626525, 286159541, 134919277, 305018215, 329341598, 48181777,
>> 79384857, 112868646, 221068759, 70871527, 416507001, 31]
> 
> 
> They're not exactly *digits* though, are they? 

Oh, I forgot... I think this is why Python long ints effectively uses a base
256 internal storage. If memory serves me correctly, internally a long int
is stored as an array of bytes using digits:

\x0 \x1 \x2 ... \xFF

(in decimal, 0 to 255). Each digit takes a single byte, so it's nicely
compact, and Python includes a bunch of fast algorithms for doing
arithmetic on these.

If the array is always a multiple of four bytes, then that is logically
equivalent to using base 4294967296 with 32-bit digits:

\x0\x0\x0\x0 \x0\x0\x0\x1 \x0\x0\x0\x2 ... \xFF\xFF\xFF\xFF

(in decimal, 0 to 4294967295). It's still fundamentally binary though, but I
suppose it's not entirely pointless to talk about base 2**32 or base 2**64
numbers, in the context of a high-performance Big Num implementation. But
it wouldn't be practical to use *arbitrary bases* up to 2**32 or 2**64, and
it certainly isn't practical to have human beings read or write numbers in
such large bases. 


-- 
Steven



From ben+python at benfinney.id.au  Tue Apr  7 21:24:45 2015
From: ben+python at benfinney.id.au (Ben Finney)
Date: Wed, 08 Apr 2015 11:24:45 +1000
Subject: Automate deployment of Python application from multiple VCS
 repositories
Message-ID: <857ftnza1u.fsf@benfinney.id.au>

Howdy all,

What tools are available to automate deployment of a Python application
comprising many discrete modules, spread across different code bases in
different VCS repositories?

My idea is to have a single definition (itself under VCS control) that
specifies VCS locations and branches, a hierarchy into which all the
modules fit, and a deployment host.

    host foo:
        repo ?spam-common <URL>?, branch ?trunk?, at ?./common/?
        repo ?beans <URL>?, branch ?version 6.1?, at ?./?
        repo ?sausage <URL>?, branch ?trunk?, at ?./third-party/sausage/?

    host bar:
        repo ?spam-common <URL>?, branch ?maint?, at ?./common/?
        repo ?beans <URL>?, branch ?version 7.0?, at ?./?
        repo ?eggs <URL>?, branch ?master?, at ?./third-party/eggs/?
        repo ?toast <URL>?, branch ?trunk?, at ?./third-party/eggs/toast/?
        repo ?sausage <URL>?, branch ?version 1.4?, at ?./third-party/sausage/?

The deployment tool, when told which host specification to use, then
gathers the code by exporting it from its disparate branches, fits it
into the directory hierarchy, and deploys that to the specified host.

The goal is to be able to have multiple host specifications, each of
which needs a different set of code repositories (and often different
branches within those repositories) to be built into the deployed
application.

What frameworks are there to do this for Python code?

-- 
 \       ?Know what I hate most? Rhetorical questions.? ?Henry N. Camp |
  `\                                                                   |
_o__)                                                                  |
Ben Finney



From breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk  Tue Apr  7 21:39:03 2015
From: breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk (Mark Lawrence)
Date: Wed, 08 Apr 2015 02:39:03 +0100
Subject: Best search algorithm to find condition within a range
In-Reply-To: <cojcseF14qpU1@mid.individual.net>
References: <2e3a3c01-20b3-4948-9b32-bd80ed46822b@googlegroups.com>
 <552460cc$0$13002$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <cojcseF14qpU1@mid.individual.net>
Message-ID: <mg20rs$6pk$1@ger.gmane.org>

On 08/04/2015 01:59, Gregory Ewing wrote:
> Steven D'Aprano wrote:
>
>> What digits would you use for base one-million?
>
> Interesting question. Unicode currently has about
> 75,000 CJK characters, so we would need to find about
> 12 more independently developed cultures with similar
> writing systems to get enough characters. I suggest
> revisiting the issue when interstellar travel and
> exploration have been better developed.
>

If it's available during PyCon can't we borrow the time machine? :)

-- 
My fellow Pythonistas, ask not what our language can do for you, ask
what you can do for our language.

Mark Lawrence



From rosuav at gmail.com  Tue Apr  7 21:46:27 2015
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Wed, 8 Apr 2015 11:46:27 +1000
Subject: Best search algorithm to find condition within a range
In-Reply-To: <55245f87$0$12986$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
References: <2e3a3c01-20b3-4948-9b32-bd80ed46822b@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.89.1428413413.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <mg0pjk$8qs$2@dont-email.me>
 <fd544688-5e9c-418e-9ca9-11b9bcb83186@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.97.1428418825.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <9616a040-fcb4-4edf-9570-145f8be99d92@googlegroups.com>
 <55245f87$0$12986$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmq23wPtn+BjC46zpUU6EvgLnunBrbydrQ8PovPr5EDQWQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Apr 8, 2015 at 8:51 AM, Steven D'Aprano
<steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info> wrote:
> There hasn't been a machine in common use that used other than binary for
> integers for probably forty years now, and there has *never* been a PC that
> has used other than binary for integers. When you write 12345 as an integer
> in a programming language, it is NOT stored internally as five decimal
> digits 1 2 3 4 5 in *nearly all languages*. There might be one or two
> exceptions, e.g. Hypertalk would store it as a string of bytes 0x3132333435
> in hexadecimal, or in binary 0011000100110010001100110011010000110101.
>
> (As you can guess, Hypertalk is not the most efficient of languages.)

FWIW, REXX does the same thing as Hypertalk - the integer 12345 and
the string "12345" are identical. If you add the string "1" and the
string "12345", you get the string "12346". (Concatenation is a
separate operation, and would result in the string "112345".) However,
Steven is still correct in that it is not stored as five decimal
digits; it's stored as five bytes in your system encoding. On my
systems, those were all ASCII-compatible, so it'd be 0x3132333435
(plus some metadata about string length and stuff, not germane to the
discussion), though I suspect that an EBCDIC system would store it as
0xF1F2F3F4F5 instead.

ChrisA


From rosuav at gmail.com  Tue Apr  7 21:49:34 2015
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Wed, 8 Apr 2015 11:49:34 +1000
Subject: Best search algorithm to find condition within a range
In-Reply-To: <552460cc$0$13002$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
References: <2e3a3c01-20b3-4948-9b32-bd80ed46822b@googlegroups.com>
 <552460cc$0$13002$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmotPWZg1zre_LZMQGD1PE--yFF3h-BzYF_OsVBJd3fpLQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Apr 8, 2015 at 8:57 AM, Steven D'Aprano
<steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info> wrote:
> On Tue, 7 Apr 2015 07:44 pm, jonas.thornvall at gmail.com wrote:
>
>
>> I want todo faster baseconversion for very big bases like base 1 000 000,
>> so instead of adding up digits i search it.
>
> What digits would you use for base one-million?
>
> Base 2 uses 0 1.
> Base 3 uses 0 1 2.
> Base 10 uses 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9.
> Base 16 uses 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 A B C D E F.
>
> Base one million uses what?
>
> How would you write down 12345 in base one-million?

You could use base 1,114,112 fairly readily in any decent modern
programming language. That'll happily represent base one-million.

ChrisA


From no.email at nospam.invalid  Tue Apr  7 21:52:35 2015
From: no.email at nospam.invalid (Paul Rubin)
Date: Tue, 07 Apr 2015 18:52:35 -0700
Subject: Automate deployment of Python application from multiple VCS
 repositories
References: <mailman.129.1428456298.12925.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <87egnvfkt8.fsf@jester.gateway.sonic.net>

Ben Finney <ben+python at benfinney.id.au> writes:
>     host foo:
>         repo ?spam-common <URL>?, branch ?trunk?, at ?./common/?
>         repo ?beans <URL>?, branch ?version 6.1?, at ?./? ...
> What frameworks are there to do this for Python code?

I don't know what's out there for Python, but that reminds me a bit
of the Erlang tool "rebar": https://github.com/rebar/rebar

I half remember that there was a later alternative to rebar that had
similarities and maybe improvements.  

Anyway, these might be worth looking at if you're thinking of developing
a Python tool.


From marko at pacujo.net  Wed Apr  8 00:31:14 2015
From: marko at pacujo.net (Marko Rauhamaa)
Date: Wed, 08 Apr 2015 07:31:14 +0300
Subject: Best search algorithm to find condition within a range
References: <2e3a3c01-20b3-4948-9b32-bd80ed46822b@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.93.1428417164.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <d6e7bb84-3810-435a-bd7a-ad45da86f906@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.108.1428424459.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <9fd13f49-8bfa-43ef-8787-21d5c76a6268@googlegroups.com>
 <552473cd$0$12982$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <87k2xnckbx.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>

Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info>:

> On Wed, 8 Apr 2015 03:07 am, jonas.thornvall at gmail.com wrote:
>> Using base 429496729?
>
> That makes no sense. With base 429496729 you need to have 429496729
> different digits.

You can use integers as digits. We already do that when we express times
and angles in base-60. I think even the Babylonians might have used such
structured digits.

>>> x = 2932903594368438384328325832983294832483258958495845849584958458435439543858588435856958650865490
>>> while x >= 429496729: x //= 429496729
... 
>>> x
31


Marko


From jonas.thornvall at gmail.com  Wed Apr  8 01:50:47 2015
From: jonas.thornvall at gmail.com (jonas.thornvall at gmail.com)
Date: Tue, 7 Apr 2015 22:50:47 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Best search algorithm to find condition within a range
In-Reply-To: <552460cc$0$13002$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
References: <2e3a3c01-20b3-4948-9b32-bd80ed46822b@googlegroups.com>
 <552460cc$0$13002$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <aebef915-6d42-4b7a-8fbd-8854ab7563fb@googlegroups.com>

Den onsdag 8 april 2015 kl. 00:57:27 UTC+2 skrev Steven D'Aprano:
> On Tue, 7 Apr 2015 07:44 pm, jonas.thornvall at gmail.com wrote:
> 
> 
> > I want todo faster baseconversion for very big bases like base 1 000 000,
> > so instead of adding up digits i search it.
> 
> What digits would you use for base one-million?
> 
> Base 2 uses 0 1.
> Base 3 uses 0 1 2.
> Base 10 uses 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9.
> Base 16 uses 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 A B C D E F.
> 
> Base one million uses what?
> 
> How would you write down 12345 in base one-million?
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Steven

Well digit places have to be comma separated i think i told you, in low bases we have unique digits so there is no problems write out numbers without separaation of digitplaces. But when the base is higher than the number of digits you have a choice to make. Either you invent a new numeral(number digit.

I think you realise that BB = 11,11

So your example would of course be ,12345

I hope you see A,B,C,D,E,F is only replacement for 10,11,12,13,14,15


From jonas.thornvall at gmail.com  Wed Apr  8 02:12:02 2015
From: jonas.thornvall at gmail.com (jonas.thornvall at gmail.com)
Date: Tue, 7 Apr 2015 23:12:02 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Best search algorithm to find condition within a range
In-Reply-To: <cojcseF14qpU1@mid.individual.net>
References: <2e3a3c01-20b3-4948-9b32-bd80ed46822b@googlegroups.com>
 <552460cc$0$13002$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <cojcseF14qpU1@mid.individual.net>
Message-ID: <ed072fae-f2a7-458c-894f-36c784ccb276@googlegroups.com>

Den onsdag 8 april 2015 kl. 03:00:12 UTC+2 skrev Gregory Ewing:
> Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> 
> > What digits would you use for base one-million?
> 
> Interesting question. Unicode currently has about
> 75,000 CJK characters, so we would need to find about
> 12 more independently developed cultures with similar
> writing systems to get enough characters. I suggest
> revisiting the issue when interstellar travel and
> exploration have been better developed.
> 
> -- 
> Greg

No need Greg it is an easy task creating visual interpretable symbols from low to high using lines in a point/pixel space. I could create the set in a day.

And if i use colour space it is even easier.

The hard part is making the point space visible and interpretabel without calculation and holding remainders in head. 

But then again when numbers have more than 5 digitplaces people tend to interpretate them digitwise anyway.

10010 is interpretated as a single digit by brain.
7582560 people mostly interpretate as 7 m 582 000 and 560.

You can tell how people group and think about numbers by having them reading up a very long telephone number.


From jonas.thornvall at gmail.com  Wed Apr  8 02:19:49 2015
From: jonas.thornvall at gmail.com (jonas.thornvall at gmail.com)
Date: Tue, 7 Apr 2015 23:19:49 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Best search algorithm to find condition within a range
In-Reply-To: <55247896$0$12995$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
References: <2e3a3c01-20b3-4948-9b32-bd80ed46822b@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.93.1428417164.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <d6e7bb84-3810-435a-bd7a-ad45da86f906@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.108.1428424459.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <9fd13f49-8bfa-43ef-8787-21d5c76a6268@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.109.1428428740.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <55247896$0$12995$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <f4dbe9c0-3a49-4908-896d-e05578ba1336@googlegroups.com>

Den onsdag 8 april 2015 kl. 02:38:57 UTC+2 skrev Steven D'Aprano:
> On Wed, 8 Apr 2015 03:44 am, Ian Kelly wrote:
> 
> >>>>
> to_base(2932903594368438384328325832983294832483258958495845849584958458435439543858588435856958650865490,
> >>>> 429496729)
> > [27626525, 286159541, 134919277, 305018215, 329341598, 48181777,
> > 79384857, 112868646, 221068759, 70871527, 416507001, 31]
> 
> 
> They're not exactly *digits* though, are they? Without an easy to use set of
> 429496729 different symbols, the whole exercise is rather pointless. It's
> not more compact: 97 decimal digits, versus 121 characters in the list
> representation. 110 if you strip out the spaces between items. It's
> certainly not more memory efficient: the long int 293...490 takes 56 bytes,
> compared to 80 bytes for just the list, not including the memory used by
> its 12 int items. (Results may vary in other versions of Python.) You can't
> do arithmetic on it faster than Python's built-ins.
> 
> Besides, it isn't clear to me whether Jonas wants to convert decimal
> 293...490 *into* base 429496729 as you have done, or *base 429496729*
> 293...490 into decimal.
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Steven

Well Steven you just draw a line under connecting them all, and now you are allowed to call whatever combination you write down a single digit.

And you have just created 429496729 unique symbols ;), in a pencil stroke.
I know at least one intergalactic poster that will be impressed ;)


From jonas.thornvall at gmail.com  Wed Apr  8 03:28:09 2015
From: jonas.thornvall at gmail.com (jonas.thornvall at gmail.com)
Date: Wed, 8 Apr 2015 00:28:09 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Best search algorithm to find condition within a range
In-Reply-To: <mailman.134.1428477364.12925.python-list@python.org>
References: <2e3a3c01-20b3-4948-9b32-bd80ed46822b@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.93.1428417164.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <d6e7bb84-3810-435a-bd7a-ad45da86f906@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.108.1428424459.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <9fd13f49-8bfa-43ef-8787-21d5c76a6268@googlegroups.com>
 <CALwzidnbnbttdd+ow+gYg2-y8KDTAzXfEJ4c19OkEN=eOH2rLw@mail.gmail.com>
 <mg1973$lj6$1@ger.gmane.org>
 <mailman.112.1428434424.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <87384bzqlx.fsf@bsb.me.uk>
 <f6e43453-faa7-4243-ae4e-ad78e17d0966@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.134.1428477364.12925.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <ad4d7ca1-56b6-4be1-bd55-fc6a4cbb65aa@googlegroups.com>

Den onsdag 8 april 2015 kl. 09:16:24 UTC+2 skrev Ian:
> On Tue, Apr 7, 2015 at 4:35 PM,  <jonas.thornvall at gmail.com> wrote:
> > I am not sure you guys realised, that althoug the size of the factors to muliply expands according to base^(exp+1) for each digitplace the number of comparissons needed to reach the digit place (multiple of base^exp+1) is constant with my approach/method.
> 
> No it isn't. You do one comparison on every iteration of your while
> loop, and you do one iteration for every digit. How is that constant?

Ok the number of comparissons is linear for each digitplace not exponential.


From jonas.thornvall at gmail.com  Wed Apr  8 03:35:46 2015
From: jonas.thornvall at gmail.com (jonas.thornvall at gmail.com)
Date: Wed, 8 Apr 2015 00:35:46 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Best search algorithm to find condition within a range
In-Reply-To: <mailman.134.1428477364.12925.python-list@python.org>
References: <2e3a3c01-20b3-4948-9b32-bd80ed46822b@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.93.1428417164.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <d6e7bb84-3810-435a-bd7a-ad45da86f906@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.108.1428424459.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <9fd13f49-8bfa-43ef-8787-21d5c76a6268@googlegroups.com>
 <CALwzidnbnbttdd+ow+gYg2-y8KDTAzXfEJ4c19OkEN=eOH2rLw@mail.gmail.com>
 <mg1973$lj6$1@ger.gmane.org>
 <mailman.112.1428434424.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <87384bzqlx.fsf@bsb.me.uk>
 <f6e43453-faa7-4243-ae4e-ad78e17d0966@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.134.1428477364.12925.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <2bf9774a-8d10-40e9-bd26-bea4d731592e@googlegroups.com>

Den onsdag 8 april 2015 kl. 09:16:24 UTC+2 skrev Ian:
> On Tue, Apr 7, 2015 at 4:35 PM,  <jonas.thornvall at gmail.com> wrote:
> > I am not sure you guys realised, that althoug the size of the factors to muliply expands according to base^(exp+1) for each digitplace the number of comparissons needed to reach the digit place (multiple of base^exp+1) is constant with my approach/method.
> 
> No it isn't. You do one comparison on every iteration of your while
> loop, and you do one iteration for every digit. How is that constant?

The for loop should be replaced with a version of binary search making comparisson instead of adding to digit. It will be alot faster with a base using 32-bits.

But the point is the number of operations is linear for each digitplace with my approach/method, you will multiply bigger numbers. But the numbers of comparissons and multiplications is linear over the digitspace.


From marco.nawijn at colosso.nl  Wed Apr  8 05:39:54 2015
From: marco.nawijn at colosso.nl (marco.nawijn at colosso.nl)
Date: Wed, 8 Apr 2015 02:39:54 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Could not find any downloads that satisfy the requirement
 novaclient
In-Reply-To: <cefec885-1d63-4f54-aa4c-a4cba31e24ef@googlegroups.com>
References: <cefec885-1d63-4f54-aa4c-a4cba31e24ef@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <ebb3a72f-cad4-4612-9907-bc06ed2910a2@googlegroups.com>

On Tuesday, April 7, 2015 at 9:55:58 PM UTC+2, kurt_... at symantec40.com wrote:
> Hi-
> 
> While trying to install an OpenStack client on Mac OSX, I get the following:
> 
> SymMacToolkit-C02N4H9DG3QD:/ kurt_heiss$ sudo pip install novaclient
> Password:
> The directory '/Users/kurt_heiss/Library/Logs/pip' or its parent directory is not owned by the current user and the debug log has been disabled. Please check the permissions and owner of that directory. If executing pip with sudo, you may want the -H flag.
> The directory '/Users/kurt_heiss/Library/Caches/pip/http' or its parent directory is not owned by the current user and the cache has been disabled. Please check the permissions and owner of that directory. If executing pip with sudo, you may want the -H flag.
> The directory '/Users/kurt_heiss/Library/Caches/pip/http' or its parent directory is not owned by the current user and the cache has been disabled. Please check the permissions and owner of that directory. If executing pip with sudo, you may want the -H flag.
> Collecting novaclient
>   Could not find any downloads that satisfy the requirement novaclient
>   No distributions at all found for novaclient
> SymMacToolkit-C02N4H9DG3QD:/ kurt_heiss$ 
> 
> I changed the permissions on the identified folders as well as tried the -H option to no positive result.
> 
> Anybody encounter this issue or suggest a possible workaround?

Hi,

The module you are looking for is named python-novaclient and not novaclient.
You can check for yourself by running "pip search novaclient".


From damien.wyart at free.fr  Wed Apr  8 06:10:16 2015
From: damien.wyart at free.fr (Damien Wyart)
Date: Wed, 08 Apr 2015 12:10:16 +0200
Subject: Automate deployment of Python application from multiple VCS
 repositories
References: <mailman.129.1428456298.12925.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <5524fe88$0$3300$426a34cc@news.free.fr>

* Ben Finney <ben+python at benfinney.id.au> in comp.lang.python:
> What tools are available to automate deployment of a Python
> application comprising many discrete modules, spread across different
> code bases in different VCS repositories?

Fabric might help but is more "low-level" than what you seem to look
for.
http://docs.fabfile.org/en/latest/tutorial.html

-- 
DW


From damien.wyart at free.fr  Wed Apr  8 06:20:41 2015
From: damien.wyart at free.fr (Damien Wyart)
Date: Wed, 08 Apr 2015 12:20:41 +0200
Subject: Automate deployment of Python application from multiple VCS
 repositories
References: <mailman.129.1428456298.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <5524fe88$0$3300$426a34cc@news.free.fr>
Message-ID: <552500f9$0$3051$426a34cc@news.free.fr>

> Fabric might help but is more "low-level" than what you seem to look
> for.
> http://docs.fabfile.org/en/latest/tutorial.html

Elsewhere in the spectrum is Saltstack, but application deployment
usecases are not that well documented.
https://groups.google.com/forum/#!msg/salt-users/w9hxKpXVL04/5NIHE9aYWscJ

-- 
DW


From matthew at baltrusitis.com  Wed Apr  8 08:00:32 2015
From: matthew at baltrusitis.com (Matt)
Date: Wed, 8 Apr 2015 05:00:32 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Automate deployment of Python application from multiple VCS
 repositories
In-Reply-To: <mailman.129.1428456298.12925.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.129.1428456298.12925.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <20595511-d653-46be-b03b-a4bfd05d0085@googlegroups.com>

This seems highly do-able with Ansible. They have a git module, if that's your VCS, that fits in here perfectly. 

I would make two lists of variables, the first for repo URL/branch info and the second for their destinations. Then Ansible uses simple YAML to write the commands. Here's an overly simplified version that I'm typing up quick on my phone:

- for each item in /git_variables.yml
  git clone {{ host }} {{ branch }} {{ destination }}

Relevant info is here:
http://docs.ansible.com/playbooks_variables.html
http://docs.ansible.com/playbooks_loops.html
http://docs.ansible.com/git_module.html

I'm in #python and #ansible as heatmeiser if you need any low level detail. 


From robert.kern at gmail.com  Wed Apr  8 08:25:05 2015
From: robert.kern at gmail.com (Robert Kern)
Date: Wed, 08 Apr 2015 13:25:05 +0100
Subject: Code critique please
In-Reply-To: <mg1u8g$199$1@ger.gmane.org>
References: <53f4c2fd-a20c-4d09-8719-8f3f9b80670b@googlegroups.com>
 <mg1u8g$199$1@ger.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <mg36n1$fnd$1@ger.gmane.org>

On 2015-04-08 01:54, Mark Lawrence wrote:
> On 07/04/2015 23:43, kai.peters at gmail.com wrote:
>> I just wrote this bit (coming from Pascal) and am wondering how seasoned
>> Python programmers would have done the same? Anything terribly non-python?
>>
>> As always, thanks for all input.
>>
>> import os, sys
>> from PIL import Image, ImageFont, ImageDraw
>>
>
> As you've had plenty of answers I'll just say that PIL is pretty old now.  Are
> you aware of the fork called Pillow? https://pillow.readthedocs.org/

Pillow uses the name "PIL" for its package name too, in the interest of being 
drop-in compatible.

https://pillow.readthedocs.org/porting-pil-to-pillow.html

-- 
Robert Kern

"I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma
  that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had
  an underlying truth."
   -- Umberto Eco



From hermanmu at gmail.com  Wed Apr  8 09:18:32 2015
From: hermanmu at gmail.com (Michael Herman)
Date: Wed, 8 Apr 2015 07:18:32 -0600
Subject: Automate deployment of Python application from multiple VCS
 repositories
In-Reply-To: <857ftnza1u.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
References: <857ftnza1u.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
Message-ID: <CA+f8p+zy2Bo9Bcm=1C9riqUt5nmUWG-QWLvv5uBH4Tw0PwQZ1Q@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Ben,

I would start with Fabric. -> http://www.fabfile.org/. It's "low-level",
but super straightforward.

Here's a blog post on how to setup deployment ->
https://realpython.com/blog/python/kickstarting-flask-on-ubuntu-setup-and-deployment/

On Tue, Apr 7, 2015 at 7:24 PM, Ben Finney <ben+python at benfinney.id.au>
wrote:

> Howdy all,
>
> What tools are available to automate deployment of a Python application
> comprising many discrete modules, spread across different code bases in
> different VCS repositories?
>
> My idea is to have a single definition (itself under VCS control) that
> specifies VCS locations and branches, a hierarchy into which all the
> modules fit, and a deployment host.
>
>     host foo:
>         repo ?spam-common <URL>?, branch ?trunk?, at ?./common/?
>         repo ?beans <URL>?, branch ?version 6.1?, at ?./?
>         repo ?sausage <URL>?, branch ?trunk?, at ?./third-party/sausage/?
>
>     host bar:
>         repo ?spam-common <URL>?, branch ?maint?, at ?./common/?
>         repo ?beans <URL>?, branch ?version 7.0?, at ?./?
>         repo ?eggs <URL>?, branch ?master?, at ?./third-party/eggs/?
>         repo ?toast <URL>?, branch ?trunk?, at ?./third-party/eggs/toast/?
>         repo ?sausage <URL>?, branch ?version 1.4?, at
> ?./third-party/sausage/?
>
> The deployment tool, when told which host specification to use, then
> gathers the code by exporting it from its disparate branches, fits it
> into the directory hierarchy, and deploys that to the specified host.
>
> The goal is to be able to have multiple host specifications, each of
> which needs a different set of code repositories (and often different
> branches within those repositories) to be built into the deployed
> application.
>
> What frameworks are there to do this for Python code?
>
> --
>  \       ?Know what I hate most? Rhetorical questions.? ?Henry N. Camp |
>   `\                                                                   |
> _o__)                                                                  |
> Ben Finney
>
> --
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/attachments/20150408/e0b0da81/attachment.html>

From uglemat at gmail.com  Wed Apr  8 09:23:19 2015
From: uglemat at gmail.com (Mattias Ugelvik)
Date: Wed, 8 Apr 2015 15:23:19 +0200
Subject: How to find out which named regular expression group corresponds to
 which positional regex group
Message-ID: <CAFPwPpT=Gxi-4xmhVz0wJh0eAMAhejjQaLZFmx2QZoTeukNSxg@mail.gmail.com>

I'm making a string manipulation tool in which I need to know this correlation.

Take this example: re.match('(?P<first>a?)(?P<second>b?)', '')

I need to know that 'first' is group #1, and 'second' is group #2. I
need this to resolve certain ambiguities. I was hopin


From damien.wyart at free.fr  Wed Apr  8 09:32:43 2015
From: damien.wyart at free.fr (Damien Wyart)
Date: Wed, 08 Apr 2015 15:32:43 +0200
Subject: How to find out which named regular expression group corresponds
 to which positional regex group
References: <mailman.138.1428499489.12925.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <55252dfc$0$2988$426a34cc@news.free.fr>

* Mattias Ugelvik <uglemat at gmail.com> in comp.lang.python:
> I'm making a string manipulation tool in which I need to know this
> correlation.
> Take this example: re.match('(?P<first>a?)(?P<second>b?)', '')
> I need to know that 'first' is group #1, and 'second' is group #2.
> I need this to resolve certain ambiguities.

Building a mapping between the results of groups and groupdict on the
match object should be quite straightforward.

-- 
DW


From mwilson at the-wire.com  Wed Apr  8 09:39:39 2015
From: mwilson at the-wire.com (Mel Wilson)
Date: Wed, 8 Apr 2015 13:39:39 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Best search algorithm to find condition within a range
References: <2e3a3c01-20b3-4948-9b32-bd80ed46822b@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.93.1428417164.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <d6e7bb84-3810-435a-bd7a-ad45da86f906@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.108.1428424459.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <9fd13f49-8bfa-43ef-8787-21d5c76a6268@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.109.1428428740.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <55247896$0$12995$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <f4dbe9c0-3a49-4908-896d-e05578ba1336@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <mg3b2p$acv$1@dont-email.me>

On Tue, 07 Apr 2015 23:19:49 -0700, jonas.thornvall wrote:

> And you have just created 429496729 unique symbols ;), in a pencil
> stroke.

No.  You did that, when you said base 429496729.  Representing the 
symbols in a computer is no problem, any Python long int can do that.  To 
display the symbols, you can use PIL to make up glyphs out of coloured 
pixels 864x864.  You can keep your glyphs in GIFs.  Where you keep them 
is up to you.  Keeping them in Tumbolia and computing them out as 
required will work well.



From uglemat at gmail.com  Wed Apr  8 09:48:15 2015
From: uglemat at gmail.com (Mattias Ugelvik)
Date: Wed, 8 Apr 2015 15:48:15 +0200
Subject: Get the numbering of named regex groups
Message-ID: <CAFPwPpSn0PGQHNTuNjOKB7fq30njPRyT-mzzRNd+URg4y7-gfg@mail.gmail.com>

Example: re.match('(?P<first>a?)(?P<second>b?)', '')

How can I find out that the group 'first' correlates to the positional
regex group 1? I need to know this to resolve crucial ambiguities in a
string manipulation tool I'm making. Looking at spans, as the example
above illustrates, won't do the job.

I can't see a way to do this through the documented interface (at
least not in the `re` module?). An algorithm involving searching for
'(' in the regular expression strings requires dealing with
parentheses in square brackets somehow + non-capturing groups in order
not to create rare bugs (the most dangerous of bugs).

If it's possible to get access to a regex AST, then I'm willing to
work with that (if the structure is stable), as it's quite important
that I solve this problem. I might be willing to drop Python2.7
support.


From __peter__ at web.de  Wed Apr  8 10:28:49 2015
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Wed, 08 Apr 2015 16:28:49 +0200
Subject: Get the numbering of named regex groups
References: <CAFPwPpSn0PGQHNTuNjOKB7fq30njPRyT-mzzRNd+URg4y7-gfg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <mg3dv1$ekm$1@ger.gmane.org>

Mattias Ugelvik wrote:

> Example: re.match('(?P<first>a?)(?P<second>b?)', '')
> 
> How can I find out that the group 'first' correlates to the positional
> regex group 1? I need to know this to resolve crucial ambiguities in a
> string manipulation tool I'm making. Looking at spans, as the example
> above illustrates, won't do the job.
> 
> I can't see a way to do this through the documented interface (at
> least not in the `re` module?). 

Compile and match in two separate steps:

>>> import re
>>> r = re.compile('(?P<first>a?)(?P<second>b?)')

Find the groups' positions:

>>> r.groupindex
{'second': 2, 'first': 1}


Find the matching substrings:

>>> r.match("a").groupdict()
{'second': '', 'first': 'a'}

https://docs.python.org/2.7/library/re.html#re.RegexObject.groupindex




From ian.g.kelly at gmail.com  Wed Apr  8 10:35:52 2015
From: ian.g.kelly at gmail.com (Ian Kelly)
Date: Wed, 8 Apr 2015 08:35:52 -0600
Subject: Best search algorithm to find condition within a range
In-Reply-To: <ad4d7ca1-56b6-4be1-bd55-fc6a4cbb65aa@googlegroups.com>
References: <2e3a3c01-20b3-4948-9b32-bd80ed46822b@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.93.1428417164.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <d6e7bb84-3810-435a-bd7a-ad45da86f906@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.108.1428424459.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <9fd13f49-8bfa-43ef-8787-21d5c76a6268@googlegroups.com>
 <CALwzidnbnbttdd+ow+gYg2-y8KDTAzXfEJ4c19OkEN=eOH2rLw@mail.gmail.com>
 <mg1973$lj6$1@ger.gmane.org>
 <mailman.112.1428434424.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <87384bzqlx.fsf@bsb.me.uk>
 <f6e43453-faa7-4243-ae4e-ad78e17d0966@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.134.1428477364.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <ad4d7ca1-56b6-4be1-bd55-fc6a4cbb65aa@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <CALwzidnoyUeidh2rkXTu0kXTD7HSdMs5Q21LQ0uwEaBxUA+PRg@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Apr 8, 2015 at 1:28 AM,  <jonas.thornvall at gmail.com> wrote:
> Den onsdag 8 april 2015 kl. 09:16:24 UTC+2 skrev Ian:
>> On Tue, Apr 7, 2015 at 4:35 PM,  <jonas.thornvall at gmail.com> wrote:
>> > I am not sure you guys realised, that althoug the size of the factors to muliply expands according to base^(exp+1) for each digitplace the number of comparissons needed to reach the digit place (multiple of base^exp+1) is constant with my approach/method.
>>
>> No it isn't. You do one comparison on every iteration of your while
>> loop, and you do one iteration for every digit. How is that constant?
>
> Ok the number of comparissons is linear for each digitplace not exponential.

In other words, the first part of your algorithm where you find the
largest digit place takes O(log n) operations. But the second part
where you do a search for each digit takes O(b * log n) operations, so
the overall number of operations is O(b * log n). If you replace the
linear search with a binary search, that's still O(log b * log n).

Meanwhile, the division method that I and others have repeatedly
suggested does only one comparison and one division per digit, which
is just O(log n).

Note that this analysis doesn't take into account the complexity of
the individual arithmetic operations, but that should affect either
algorithm equally.


From uglemat at gmail.com  Wed Apr  8 10:37:06 2015
From: uglemat at gmail.com (Mattias Ugelvik)
Date: Wed, 8 Apr 2015 16:37:06 +0200
Subject: Get the numbering of named regex groups
In-Reply-To: <mg3dv1$ekm$1@ger.gmane.org>
References: <CAFPwPpSn0PGQHNTuNjOKB7fq30njPRyT-mzzRNd+URg4y7-gfg@mail.gmail.com>
 <mg3dv1$ekm$1@ger.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <CAFPwPpT2ZZp8atcjGV84S6SChQTc4jdBrNzn-=Mx9xa+SWbgOA@mail.gmail.com>

Thank god it's that easy! Err, I mean, thank you! I should have read
the docs more carefully :)

On 08/04/2015, Peter Otten <__peter__ at web.de> wrote:
> Mattias Ugelvik wrote:
>
>> Example: re.match('(?P<first>a?)(?P<second>b?)', '')
>>
>> How can I find out that the group 'first' correlates to the positional
>> regex group 1? I need to know this to resolve crucial ambiguities in a
>> string manipulation tool I'm making. Looking at spans, as the example
>> above illustrates, won't do the job.
>>
>> I can't see a way to do this through the documented interface (at
>> least not in the `re` module?).
>
> Compile and match in two separate steps:
>
>>>> import re
>>>> r = re.compile('(?P<first>a?)(?P<second>b?)')
>
> Find the groups' positions:
>
>>>> r.groupindex
> {'second': 2, 'first': 1}
>
>
> Find the matching substrings:
>
>>>> r.match("a").groupdict()
> {'second': '', 'first': 'a'}
>
> https://docs.python.org/2.7/library/re.html#re.RegexObject.groupindex
>
>
> --
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>


From ian.g.kelly at gmail.com  Wed Apr  8 10:37:21 2015
From: ian.g.kelly at gmail.com (Ian Kelly)
Date: Wed, 8 Apr 2015 08:37:21 -0600
Subject: Best search algorithm to find condition within a range
In-Reply-To: <552481d1$0$13005$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
References: <2e3a3c01-20b3-4948-9b32-bd80ed46822b@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.93.1428417164.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <d6e7bb84-3810-435a-bd7a-ad45da86f906@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.108.1428424459.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <9fd13f49-8bfa-43ef-8787-21d5c76a6268@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.109.1428428740.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <55247896$0$12995$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <552481d1$0$13005$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <CALwzidn1Hir3aN5vZFh4_UwSrZHCj7WAAp0-NTYZZ2UsAGEyBA@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Apr 7, 2015 at 7:18 PM, Steven D'Aprano
<steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info> wrote:
> On Wed, 8 Apr 2015 10:38 am, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
>
>> On Wed, 8 Apr 2015 03:44 am, Ian Kelly wrote:
>>
>>>>>>
>>
> to_base(2932903594368438384328325832983294832483258958495845849584958458435439543858588435856958650865490,
>>>>>> 429496729)
>>> [27626525, 286159541, 134919277, 305018215, 329341598, 48181777,
>>> 79384857, 112868646, 221068759, 70871527, 416507001, 31]
>>
>>
>> They're not exactly *digits* though, are they?
>
> Oh, I forgot... I think this is why Python long ints effectively uses a base
> 256 internal storage. If memory serves me correctly, internally a long int
> is stored as an array of bytes using digits:
>
> \x0 \x1 \x2 ... \xFF
>
> (in decimal, 0 to 255). Each digit takes a single byte, so it's nicely
> compact, and Python includes a bunch of fast algorithms for doing
> arithmetic on these.

According to the comments in longintrepr.h, Python uses either 15- or
30-bit digits, determined at configure time.


From jonas.thornvall at gmail.com  Wed Apr  8 10:56:05 2015
From: jonas.thornvall at gmail.com (jonas.thornvall at gmail.com)
Date: Wed, 8 Apr 2015 07:56:05 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Best search algorithm to find condition within a range
In-Reply-To: <mg3b2p$acv$1@dont-email.me>
References: <2e3a3c01-20b3-4948-9b32-bd80ed46822b@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.93.1428417164.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <d6e7bb84-3810-435a-bd7a-ad45da86f906@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.108.1428424459.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <9fd13f49-8bfa-43ef-8787-21d5c76a6268@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.109.1428428740.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <55247896$0$12995$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <f4dbe9c0-3a49-4908-896d-e05578ba1336@googlegroups.com>
 <mg3b2p$acv$1@dont-email.me>
Message-ID: <d408a06a-7227-475a-ae3a-8f032b4dd65c@googlegroups.com>

Den onsdag 8 april 2015 kl. 15:40:46 UTC+2 skrev Mel Wilson:
> On Tue, 07 Apr 2015 23:19:49 -0700, jonas.thornvall wrote:
> 
> > And you have just created 429496729 unique symbols ;), in a pencil
> > stroke.
> 
> No.  You did that, when you said base 429496729.  Representing the 
> symbols in a computer is no problem, any Python long int can do that.  To 
> display the symbols, you can use PIL to make up glyphs out of coloured 
> pixels 864x864.  You can keep your glyphs in GIFs.  Where you keep them 
> is up to you.  Keeping them in Tumbolia and computing them out as 
> required will work well.

Well many interpretate a numeral digit as a single unique symbol representing a number written out in one pensttroke. I just pointed out that using handwriting or underscore a compination can be considered a numerical digit in itself.

There is no need for inventing a new set of characters representing 32-bit numbers. You will not be able to learn them by heart anyway, unless they build on a interpretation system binaries, decimals. 

Of course you could rather easily create a new set building on Points and lines and their interpretation.

Well just saying the Babylonians and Sumerians already did this, even the old greek had some sort of system with 120 unique digits. But what would be the need for such system when we so easy can create a unique permutation representing any number, using our 10 digits.



From i at introo.me  Wed Apr  8 11:07:52 2015
From: i at introo.me (Shiyao Ma)
Date: Wed, 8 Apr 2015 11:07:52 -0400
Subject: Why PyINCREF on _PyFalseStruct and _PyTrueStruct?
Message-ID: <CAJQX3Dy-8VSazn2Fo-qnu3NNgE5eFe-8Hio+91kmRz4eNCNviA@mail.gmail.com>

Hi.

While reading the rich_compare of PyLongObject, I noticed this line:

https://hg.python.org/cpython/file/a49737bd6086/Objects/longobject.c#l2785

It increments the ob_ref of the builtin True/False object.

Initializing the ob_ref of True/False to one so that they won't be
garbage collected if fair enough. Why do we increment it?

I don't see the reason behind it, since these two objects should
always stay in the memory and never participate the garbage collecting
system.


Regards.

-- 

????????????????http://introo.me?


From ian.g.kelly at gmail.com  Wed Apr  8 11:24:46 2015
From: ian.g.kelly at gmail.com (Ian Kelly)
Date: Wed, 8 Apr 2015 09:24:46 -0600
Subject: Why PyINCREF on _PyFalseStruct and _PyTrueStruct?
In-Reply-To: <CAJQX3Dy-8VSazn2Fo-qnu3NNgE5eFe-8Hio+91kmRz4eNCNviA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAJQX3Dy-8VSazn2Fo-qnu3NNgE5eFe-8Hio+91kmRz4eNCNviA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CALwzidkwO61ciA1dwp5pDu9nkVwz4wSyRoKtidiqEA7_YOKZJw@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Apr 8, 2015 at 9:07 AM, Shiyao Ma <i at introo.me> wrote:
> Hi.
>
> While reading the rich_compare of PyLongObject, I noticed this line:
>
> https://hg.python.org/cpython/file/a49737bd6086/Objects/longobject.c#l2785
>
> It increments the ob_ref of the builtin True/False object.
>
> Initializing the ob_ref of True/False to one so that they won't be
> garbage collected if fair enough. Why do we increment it?
>
> I don't see the reason behind it, since these two objects should
> always stay in the memory and never participate the garbage collecting
> system.

The ref count is incremented because the caller will decrement it when
it's done with the reference. The ref counter doesn't do any check to
see what the object is before freeing it; it just frees it if the
count hits 0. I believe that for objects like True/False, CPython
avoids getting a 0 ref count by adding one increment at creation that
will never be decremented. If it were possible to hit a decrement
without a corresponding increment though, then the count could reach 0
and the object would be freed anyway.


From i at introo.me  Wed Apr  8 11:41:48 2015
From: i at introo.me (Shiyao Ma)
Date: Wed, 8 Apr 2015 11:41:48 -0400
Subject: Why PyINCREF on _PyFalseStruct and _PyTrueStruct?
In-Reply-To: <CALwzidkwO61ciA1dwp5pDu9nkVwz4wSyRoKtidiqEA7_YOKZJw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAJQX3Dy-8VSazn2Fo-qnu3NNgE5eFe-8Hio+91kmRz4eNCNviA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CALwzidkwO61ciA1dwp5pDu9nkVwz4wSyRoKtidiqEA7_YOKZJw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAJQX3Dz5txX=-bP1kTQV+3H1CBo0eoTYjnvbesp=_L+05OCSkw@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Apr 8, 2015 at 11:24 AM, Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly at gmail.com> wrote:
> The ref count is incremented because the caller will decrement it when
> it's done with the reference.

That makes sense.

To be generic, the caller won't check what the returned result is. It
just takes it as a normal PyObject. Traditionally, for functions like
above, the reference is assumed to be transferred to the caller.

Regards.

-- 

????????????????http://introo.me?


From jeanmichel at sequans.com  Wed Apr  8 12:26:02 2015
From: jeanmichel at sequans.com (Jean-Michel Pichavant)
Date: Wed, 8 Apr 2015 18:26:02 +0200 (CEST)
Subject: Code critique please
In-Reply-To: <53f4c2fd-a20c-4d09-8719-8f3f9b80670b@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1434714428.5873146.1428510362212.JavaMail.root@sequans.com>

----- Original Message -----
> From: "kai peters" <kai.peters at gmail.com>
> To: python-list at python.org
> Sent: Wednesday, 8 April, 2015 12:43:23 AM
> Subject: Code critique please
> 
> I just wrote this bit (coming from Pascal) and am wondering how
> seasoned Python programmers would have done the same? Anything
> terribly non-python?
> 
> As always, thanks for all input.
> 
> K
> 
> 
> 
> """
>  Creates a PNG image from EPD file
> """
> 
> import os, sys
> from PIL import Image, ImageFont, ImageDraw
> 
> #
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
> def RenderByte(draw, byte, x, y):
> 
>     blist = list(bin(byte).lstrip('0b')) # turn byte into list with 8
>     elements,
>     c = 0                                # each representing one bit
>     for bit in blist:
>         if bit:
>             draw.point((x + c, y), fcolor)
>             
>         c += 1
>     return
> 
> #

Apart from what has been already said, you could rewrite your function RenderByte this way (untested):

def render_byte(draw, byte, x, y):
  for point in [(x+c, y) for (c, bit) in enumerate(bin(byte)[2:]) if int(bit)]:
    draw.point(point, fcolor)


it involves important notions in the python language:
  - list comprehension, this is the  [...] part, where it combines filtering a list and applying a function to the values
  - slicing, bin(byte)[2:] returning the sequence stripped from its 2 first elements

Additional remarks : 
  - is fcolor defined ?
  - your test "if bit:" was probably wrong as it was testing either "0" or "1" which are both evaluated to True. In other words, bool("0") == True, bool(0) == False

Cheers,

JM


-- IMPORTANT NOTICE: 

The contents of this email and any attachments are confidential and may also be privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify the sender immediately and do not disclose the contents to any other person, use it for any purpose, or store or copy the information in any medium. Thank you.

From python at mrabarnett.plus.com  Wed Apr  8 12:34:26 2015
From: python at mrabarnett.plus.com (MRAB)
Date: Wed, 08 Apr 2015 17:34:26 +0100
Subject: Get the numbering of named regex groups
In-Reply-To: <mg3dv1$ekm$1@ger.gmane.org>
References: <CAFPwPpSn0PGQHNTuNjOKB7fq30njPRyT-mzzRNd+URg4y7-gfg@mail.gmail.com>
 <mg3dv1$ekm$1@ger.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <55255892.60103@mrabarnett.plus.com>

On 2015-04-08 15:28, Peter Otten wrote:
> Mattias Ugelvik wrote:
>
>> Example: re.match('(?P<first>a?)(?P<second>b?)', '')
>>
>> How can I find out that the group 'first' correlates to the positional
>> regex group 1? I need to know this to resolve crucial ambiguities in a
>> string manipulation tool I'm making. Looking at spans, as the example
>> above illustrates, won't do the job.
>>
>> I can't see a way to do this through the documented interface (at
>> least not in the `re` module?).
>
> Compile and match in two separate steps:
>
>>>> import re
>>>> r = re.compile('(?P<first>a?)(?P<second>b?)')
>
> Find the groups' positions:
>
>>>> r.groupindex
> {'second': 2, 'first': 1}
>
>
> Find the matching substrings:
>
>>>> r.match("a").groupdict()
> {'second': '', 'first': 'a'}
>
> https://docs.python.org/2.7/library/re.html#re.RegexObject.groupindex
>
The match object has an attribute 're' that's the compiled regex:

 >>> m = re.match('(?P<first>a?)(?P<second>b?)', '')
 >>> m.re.groupindex
{'first': 1, 'second': 2}



From denismfmcmahon at gmail.com  Wed Apr  8 13:27:11 2015
From: denismfmcmahon at gmail.com (Denis McMahon)
Date: Wed, 8 Apr 2015 17:27:11 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Best search algorithm to find condition within a range
References: <2e3a3c01-20b3-4948-9b32-bd80ed46822b@googlegroups.com>
 <552460cc$0$13002$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <20d5d94c-a9b2-48ec-ba38-7bc5a59fffcf@googlegroups.com>
 <2ad5ac85-4d8e-41b2-99fe-1ac1b7ae4c11@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <mg3odf$2sr$1@dont-email.me>

On Tue, 07 Apr 2015 23:18:14 -0700, wxjmfauth wrote:

> Le mercredi 8 avril 2015 08:08:04 UTC+2, wxjm... at gmail.com a ?crit?:
>> Le mercredi 8 avril 2015 00:57:27 UTC+2, Steven D'Aprano a ?crit?:
>> > On Tue, 7 Apr 2015 07:44 pm, jonas.thornvall at gmail.com wrote:
>> > 
>> > 
>> > > I want todo faster baseconversion for very big bases like base 1
>> > > 000 000,
>> > > so instead of adding up digits i search it.
>> > 
>> > What digits would you use for base one-million?
>> > 
>> > Base 2 uses 0 1.
>> > Base 3 uses 0 1 2.
>> > Base 10 uses 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9.
>> > Base 16 uses 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 A B C D E F.
>> > 
>> > Base one million uses what?
>> > 
>> > How would you write down 12345 in base one-million?
>> > 
>> > 
>> =========
>> 
>> Why should a "digit" contain a single/unique character?
>> 
>> Representation of the number 257 in base 256:
>> 
>> 257 (base 10) --> FF 02 (base 256)
> 
> ======
> 
> Oops, typo, erratum
> 
> *** 257 (base 10) --> 01 01 (base 256) ***

Bzzzzttttt. Wrong.

0101(256) is 0 * 256^3 + 1 * 256^2 + 0 * 256^1 + 1 * 256^0

= 65537

The whole point of "base x" is that any number in the range 0 .. x^1 is 
represented with a single characterisation, otherwise you don't have 
"base x".

This is the same fundamental issue as the OP is failing to understand - 
base x notation is a human readability and representation thing, not an 
inherent feature of numbers.

-- 
Denis McMahon, denismfmcmahon at gmail.com


From mwilson at the-wire.com  Wed Apr  8 13:33:32 2015
From: mwilson at the-wire.com (Mel Wilson)
Date: Wed, 8 Apr 2015 17:33:32 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Best search algorithm to find condition within a range
References: <2e3a3c01-20b3-4948-9b32-bd80ed46822b@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.93.1428417164.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <d6e7bb84-3810-435a-bd7a-ad45da86f906@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.108.1428424459.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <9fd13f49-8bfa-43ef-8787-21d5c76a6268@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.109.1428428740.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <55247896$0$12995$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <f4dbe9c0-3a49-4908-896d-e05578ba1336@googlegroups.com>
 <mg3b2p$acv$1@dont-email.me>
 <d408a06a-7227-475a-ae3a-8f032b4dd65c@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <mg3opa$fv1$1@dont-email.me>

On Wed, 08 Apr 2015 07:56:05 -0700, jonas.thornvall wrote:

> There is no need for inventing a new set of characters representing
> 32-bit numbers. You will not be able to learn them by heart anyway,
> unless they build on a interpretation system binaries, decimals.

See Jorge Luis Borges, _Funes the Memorious_.  Gotta keep up with the 
literature.


From jonas.thornvall at gmail.com  Wed Apr  8 15:28:05 2015
From: jonas.thornvall at gmail.com (jonas.thornvall at gmail.com)
Date: Wed, 8 Apr 2015 12:28:05 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Best search algorithm to find condition within a range
In-Reply-To: <mg3opa$fv1$1@dont-email.me>
References: <2e3a3c01-20b3-4948-9b32-bd80ed46822b@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.93.1428417164.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <d6e7bb84-3810-435a-bd7a-ad45da86f906@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.108.1428424459.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <9fd13f49-8bfa-43ef-8787-21d5c76a6268@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.109.1428428740.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <55247896$0$12995$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <f4dbe9c0-3a49-4908-896d-e05578ba1336@googlegroups.com>
 <mg3b2p$acv$1@dont-email.me>
 <d408a06a-7227-475a-ae3a-8f032b4dd65c@googlegroups.com>
 <mg3opa$fv1$1@dont-email.me>
Message-ID: <5b12545a-fcc5-4791-a55d-dcf82880416d@googlegroups.com>

Den onsdag 8 april 2015 kl. 19:34:39 UTC+2 skrev Mel Wilson:
> On Wed, 08 Apr 2015 07:56:05 -0700, jonas.thornvall wrote:
> 
> > There is no need for inventing a new set of characters representing
> > 32-bit numbers. You will not be able to learn them by heart anyway,
> > unless they build on a interpretation system binaries, decimals.
> 
> See Jorge Luis Borges, _Funes the Memorious_.  Gotta keep up with the 
> literature.

One thing is true though the bigger the chunks the less operations doing add.
So arithmetic may turn out to be obsolete and replaced with search in lookuptables.



From jonas.thornvall at gmail.com  Wed Apr  8 15:36:20 2015
From: jonas.thornvall at gmail.com (jonas.thornvall at gmail.com)
Date: Wed, 8 Apr 2015 12:36:20 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Best search algorithm to find condition within a range
In-Reply-To: <5b12545a-fcc5-4791-a55d-dcf82880416d@googlegroups.com>
References: <2e3a3c01-20b3-4948-9b32-bd80ed46822b@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.93.1428417164.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <d6e7bb84-3810-435a-bd7a-ad45da86f906@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.108.1428424459.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <9fd13f49-8bfa-43ef-8787-21d5c76a6268@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.109.1428428740.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <55247896$0$12995$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <f4dbe9c0-3a49-4908-896d-e05578ba1336@googlegroups.com>
 <mg3b2p$acv$1@dont-email.me>
 <d408a06a-7227-475a-ae3a-8f032b4dd65c@googlegroups.com>
 <mg3opa$fv1$1@dont-email.me>
 <5b12545a-fcc5-4791-a55d-dcf82880416d@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <5de8eb89-38c6-4b1d-9be3-d74aa4968510@googlegroups.com>

Den onsdag 8 april 2015 kl. 21:28:34 UTC+2 skrev jonas.t... at gmail.com:
> Den onsdag 8 april 2015 kl. 19:34:39 UTC+2 skrev Mel Wilson:
> > On Wed, 08 Apr 2015 07:56:05 -0700, jonas.thornvall wrote:
> > 
> > > There is no need for inventing a new set of characters representing
> > > 32-bit numbers. You will not be able to learn them by heart anyway,
> > > unless they build on a interpretation system binaries, decimals.
> > 
> > See Jorge Luis Borges, _Funes the Memorious_.  Gotta keep up with the 
> > literature.
> 
> One thing is true though the bigger the chunks the less operations doing add.
> So arithmetic may turn out to be obsolete and replaced with search in lookuptables.

When doing by hand and working within the digitspace of a single decimal digit like 3+4 the operation is implicit. You do not really add anything you use a lookup table.

But if you take an expression like 193+169, most people perform the arithmetic. Unless they do not happen to be your favourit numbers and you learnt the sum by heart.

Top down or bottom up is basicly the choices.


From breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk  Wed Apr  8 16:28:00 2015
From: breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk (Mark Lawrence)
Date: Wed, 08 Apr 2015 21:28:00 +0100
Subject: Best search algorithm to find condition within a range
In-Reply-To: <5de8eb89-38c6-4b1d-9be3-d74aa4968510@googlegroups.com>
References: <2e3a3c01-20b3-4948-9b32-bd80ed46822b@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.93.1428417164.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <d6e7bb84-3810-435a-bd7a-ad45da86f906@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.108.1428424459.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <9fd13f49-8bfa-43ef-8787-21d5c76a6268@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.109.1428428740.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <55247896$0$12995$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <f4dbe9c0-3a49-4908-896d-e05578ba1336@googlegroups.com>
 <mg3b2p$acv$1@dont-email.me>
 <d408a06a-7227-475a-ae3a-8f032b4dd65c@googlegroups.com>
 <mg3opa$fv1$1@dont-email.me>
 <5b12545a-fcc5-4791-a55d-dcf82880416d@googlegroups.com>
 <5de8eb89-38c6-4b1d-9be3-d74aa4968510@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <mg430l$ugd$1@ger.gmane.org>

On 08/04/2015 20:36, jonas.thornvall at gmail.com wrote:
> Den onsdag 8 april 2015 kl. 21:28:34 UTC+2 skrev jonas.t... at gmail.com:
>> Den onsdag 8 april 2015 kl. 19:34:39 UTC+2 skrev Mel Wilson:
>>> On Wed, 08 Apr 2015 07:56:05 -0700, jonas.thornvall wrote:
>>>
>>>> There is no need for inventing a new set of characters representing
>>>> 32-bit numbers. You will not be able to learn them by heart anyway,
>>>> unless they build on a interpretation system binaries, decimals.
>>>
>>> See Jorge Luis Borges, _Funes the Memorious_.  Gotta keep up with the
>>> literature.
>>
>> One thing is true though the bigger the chunks the less operations doing add.
>> So arithmetic may turn out to be obsolete and replaced with search in lookuptables.
>
> When doing by hand and working within the digitspace of a single decimal digit like 3+4 the operation is implicit. You do not really add anything you use a lookup table.
>
> But if you take an expression like 193+169, most people perform the arithmetic. Unless they do not happen to be your favourit numbers and you learnt the sum by heart.
>
> Top down or bottom up is basicly the choices.
>

Are you trolling or do you simply not have the faintest idea?

-- 
My fellow Pythonistas, ask not what our language can do for you, ask
what you can do for our language.

Mark Lawrence



From breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk  Wed Apr  8 16:29:34 2015
From: breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk (Mark Lawrence)
Date: Wed, 08 Apr 2015 21:29:34 +0100
Subject: Best search algorithm to find condition within a range
In-Reply-To: <5b12545a-fcc5-4791-a55d-dcf82880416d@googlegroups.com>
References: <2e3a3c01-20b3-4948-9b32-bd80ed46822b@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.93.1428417164.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <d6e7bb84-3810-435a-bd7a-ad45da86f906@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.108.1428424459.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <9fd13f49-8bfa-43ef-8787-21d5c76a6268@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.109.1428428740.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <55247896$0$12995$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <f4dbe9c0-3a49-4908-896d-e05578ba1336@googlegroups.com>
 <mg3b2p$acv$1@dont-email.me>
 <d408a06a-7227-475a-ae3a-8f032b4dd65c@googlegroups.com>
 <mg3opa$fv1$1@dont-email.me>
 <5b12545a-fcc5-4791-a55d-dcf82880416d@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <mg433j$ugd$2@ger.gmane.org>

On 08/04/2015 20:28, jonas.thornvall at gmail.com wrote:
> Den onsdag 8 april 2015 kl. 19:34:39 UTC+2 skrev Mel Wilson:
>> On Wed, 08 Apr 2015 07:56:05 -0700, jonas.thornvall wrote:
>>
>>> There is no need for inventing a new set of characters representing
>>> 32-bit numbers. You will not be able to learn them by heart anyway,
>>> unless they build on a interpretation system binaries, decimals.
>>
>> See Jorge Luis Borges, _Funes the Memorious_.  Gotta keep up with the
>> literature.
>
> One thing is true though the bigger the chunks the less operations doing add.
> So arithmetic may turn out to be obsolete and replaced with search in lookuptables.
>

I suggest that you put this on python ideas before writing up a PEP, it 
seems like a sure fire winner to me.

-- 
My fellow Pythonistas, ask not what our language can do for you, ask
what you can do for our language.

Mark Lawrence



From uglemat at gmail.com  Wed Apr  8 16:54:57 2015
From: uglemat at gmail.com (Mattias Ugelvik)
Date: Wed, 8 Apr 2015 22:54:57 +0200
Subject: Get nesting of regex groups
Message-ID: <CAFPwPpSxO69L2UNnZn+HDZQifPORW1JJLvxMytAj0GQWj2pmdw@mail.gmail.com>

Example: re.compile('(?P<outer>(?P<inner>a))')

How can I detect that 'inner' is a nested group of 'outer'? I know
that 'inner' comes later, because I can use the `regex.groupindex`
(thanks to your help earlier:
https://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/2015-April/701594.html).

After looking a bit around, I found this:

>>> sre_parse.parse('(?P<outer>(?P<inner>a))')
[('subpattern', (1, [('subpattern', (2, [('literal', 97)]))]))]

This is all I need, but this is an internal module. Though there
doesn't seem to have been changes from py2 to py3. How inadvisable is
it to use this? Would you blame me?


From bc at freeuk.com  Wed Apr  8 17:22:49 2015
From: bc at freeuk.com (BartC)
Date: Wed, 08 Apr 2015 22:22:49 +0100
Subject: Best search algorithm to find condition within a range
In-Reply-To: <552460cc$0$13002$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
References: <2e3a3c01-20b3-4948-9b32-bd80ed46822b@googlegroups.com>
 <552460cc$0$13002$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <N_gVw.164921$sZ5.11899@fx14.am4>

On 07/04/2015 23:57, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> On Tue, 7 Apr 2015 07:44 pm, jonas.thornvall at gmail.com wrote:
>
>
>> I want todo faster baseconversion for very big bases like base 1 000 000,
>> so instead of adding up digits i search it.
>
> What digits would you use for base one-million?
>
> Base 2 uses 0 1.
> Base 3 uses 0 1 2.
> Base 10 uses 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9.
> Base 16 uses 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 A B C D E F.
>
> Base one million uses what?
>
> How would you write down 12345 in base one-million?
>

That's only necessary when printing out the numbers as text (or reading 
them in). Even then, you don't need a million unique symbols; groups of 
letters or digits will do. The simplest way to represent a digit is 
write it out in normal base 10.

So the the number 3,012,345, in base 1000000, could represented in text 
form as the two 'digit':

  (3, 12345)

ie. 3*1000000 + 12345*1. In internal binary, each digit can just be 
stored in the normal form, probably as one digit per 32-bit integer.

(I have a big integer library that works exactly this way, using a 
decimal representation, but using base 1000000 with digits 0 to 999999, 
rather than base 10 and digits 0 to 9.)

-- 
Bartc




From denismfmcmahon at gmail.com  Wed Apr  8 17:30:15 2015
From: denismfmcmahon at gmail.com (Denis McMahon)
Date: Wed, 8 Apr 2015 21:30:15 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Get nesting of regex groups
References: <mailman.151.1428526500.12925.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <mg46l7$2sr$5@dont-email.me>

On Wed, 08 Apr 2015 22:54:57 +0200, Mattias Ugelvik wrote:

> Example: re.compile('(?P<outer>(?P<inner>a))')
> 
> How can I detect that 'inner' is a nested group of 'outer'? I know that
> 'inner' comes later, because I can use the `regex.groupindex` (thanks to
> your help earlier:
> https://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/2015-April/701594.html).

Pardon me for stating the obvious, but as the person defining the re, and 
assuming you haven't generated another sub-pattern somewhere in the same 
re with the same name, how can inner ever not be a nested group of outer?

Even in the contrived example below, it is clear that the list of tuples 
generated by by findall is of the form:

()[0] = 'outer', ()[1] = 'inner'

from the order of matches principle.

--------------------------------

#!/usr/bin/python

import re

patt = re.compile('(?P<outer>a+(?P<inner>b+))')

result = patt.findall('abaabbaaabbbaaaabbbb')

print result

--------------------------------

however if all you are doing is using .search or .find for the first 
match of the pattern, then there should be no scope for confusion anyway.

-- 
Denis McMahon, denismfmcmahon at gmail.com


From uglemat at gmail.com  Wed Apr  8 17:58:59 2015
From: uglemat at gmail.com (Mattias Ugelvik)
Date: Wed, 8 Apr 2015 23:58:59 +0200
Subject: Get nesting of regex groups
In-Reply-To: <mg46l7$2sr$5@dont-email.me>
References: <mailman.151.1428526500.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <mg46l7$2sr$5@dont-email.me>
Message-ID: <CAFPwPpTWTrjQWf1-PnPsx5kDkEujxQTkBgLF+-9dyq=i_xoD+g@mail.gmail.com>

I'm making a 'declarative string manipulation' tool, the interface of
which should work like this:

>>> rules(r'(?P<outer>(?P<inner>a?))(?P<separate>b?)', {
...   'separate': '.suffix',
...   'inner': 'abc',
...   'outer': lambda string: 'some-{}-manipulation'.format(string)
... }).apply('a')
'some-abc-manipulation.suffix'

Since the 'inner' group is nested, it should be replaced first, then
the replacement function for 'outer' will continue the replacements.
When 'inner' matches the empty string and its span is identical to
'outer', then I need to know whether it is nested, or if it's outside
like 'separate'.

> Pardon me for stating the obvious,

No problem, I can see why my question is weird. I actually implemented
the interface above before I realized that these ambiguities even
existed.

On 08/04/2015, Denis McMahon <denismfmcmahon at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Wed, 08 Apr 2015 22:54:57 +0200, Mattias Ugelvik wrote:
>
>> Example: re.compile('(?P<outer>(?P<inner>a))')
>>
>> How can I detect that 'inner' is a nested group of 'outer'? I know that
>> 'inner' comes later, because I can use the `regex.groupindex` (thanks to
>> your help earlier:
>> https://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/2015-April/701594.html).
>
> Pardon me for stating the obvious, but as the person defining the re, and
> assuming you haven't generated another sub-pattern somewhere in the same
> re with the same name, how can inner ever not be a nested group of outer?
>
> Even in the contrived example below, it is clear that the list of tuples
> generated by by findall is of the form:
>
> ()[0] = 'outer', ()[1] = 'inner'
>
> from the order of matches principle.
>
> --------------------------------
>
> #!/usr/bin/python
>
> import re
>
> patt = re.compile('(?P<outer>a+(?P<inner>b+))')
>
> result = patt.findall('abaabbaaabbbaaaabbbb')
>
> print result
>
> --------------------------------
>
> however if all you are doing is using .search or .find for the first
> match of the pattern, then there should be no scope for confusion anyway.
>
> --
> Denis McMahon, denismfmcmahon at gmail.com
> --
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>


From cs at zip.com.au  Wed Apr  8 18:00:33 2015
From: cs at zip.com.au (Cameron Simpson)
Date: Thu, 9 Apr 2015 08:00:33 +1000
Subject: Get nesting of regex groups
In-Reply-To: <mg46l7$2sr$5@dont-email.me>
References: <mg46l7$2sr$5@dont-email.me>
Message-ID: <20150408220033.GA22224@cskk.homeip.net>

On 08Apr2015 21:30, Denis McMahon <denismfmcmahon at gmail.com> wrote:
>On Wed, 08 Apr 2015 22:54:57 +0200, Mattias Ugelvik wrote:
>
>> Example: re.compile('(?P<outer>(?P<inner>a))')
>>
>> How can I detect that 'inner' is a nested group of 'outer'? I know that
>> 'inner' comes later, because I can use the `regex.groupindex` (thanks to
>> your help earlier:
>> https://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/2015-April/701594.html).
>
>Pardon me for stating the obvious, but as the person defining the re, and
>assuming you haven't generated another sub-pattern somewhere in the same
>re with the same name, how can inner ever not be a nested group of outer?

If he has to ask this question, one might presume that he is not the source of 
the regexp. Ergo, he may not know the regexp structure ahead of time for 
whatever reason. I could invent scenarios for that, but perhaps Mattias can 
describe his situation some more.

Cheers,
Cameron Simpson <cs at zip.com.au>

In article <CF3rw3.n0x at eskimo.com> pirih at eskimo.com (Chris Pirih) writes:
| Wotsa zerk?

It's a portable hemispherical perforated spooge flange.
        - Chuck Rogers, car377 at torreys.att.com


From marko at pacujo.net  Wed Apr  8 18:06:37 2015
From: marko at pacujo.net (Marko Rauhamaa)
Date: Thu, 09 Apr 2015 01:06:37 +0300
Subject: Best search algorithm to find condition within a range
References: <2e3a3c01-20b3-4948-9b32-bd80ed46822b@googlegroups.com>
 <552460cc$0$13002$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <N_gVw.164921$sZ5.11899@fx14.am4>
Message-ID: <876196cm1e.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>

BartC <bc at freeuk.com>:

> So the the number 3,012,345, in base 1000000, could represented in
> text form as the two 'digit':
>
>  (3, 12345)
>
> ie. 3*1000000 + 12345*1. In internal binary, each digit can just be
> stored in the normal form, probably as one digit per 32-bit integer.
>
> (I have a big integer library that works exactly this way, using a
> decimal representation, but using base 1000000 with digits 0 to
> 999999, rather than base 10 and digits 0 to 9.)

It is common to implement big integers in base-2**16, base-2**32 or
base-2**64. Arithmetics is performed just like in elementary school.


Marko


From giorgos.tzampanakis at gmail.com  Wed Apr  8 18:11:34 2015
From: giorgos.tzampanakis at gmail.com (Giorgos Tzampanakis)
Date: Wed, 8 Apr 2015 22:11:34 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Proposal for new minor syntax
References: <CAPauRLMMAT-OffHTYW6GPybAZzouc7H9BjrmvVQiSig0X3x+ig@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.282.1427499534.10327.python-list@python.org>
 <ptrbha1f8b7rgjoo3idtflpg3fsrtmvs9t@4ax.com>
 <mailman.283.1427504164.10327.python-list@python.org>
 <9c9703b6-cfa6-4e91-900e-3a401562cb9e@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <mg492m$dn6$1@dont-email.me>

On 2015-03-28, Rustom Mody wrote:

> Dunno if related...
> One thing that is a bit laborious in python are object initializers:
>
>   self.attr1 = field1
>   self.attr2 = field2

Vim's "visual block" feature is your friend in such cases... Pretty sure
that other editors have something equivalent, too. But why would you use
other editors when you can use Vim :-) .



From uglemat at gmail.com  Wed Apr  8 18:15:42 2015
From: uglemat at gmail.com (Mattias Ugelvik)
Date: Thu, 9 Apr 2015 00:15:42 +0200
Subject: Get nesting of regex groups
In-Reply-To: <mg46l7$2sr$5@dont-email.me>
References: <mailman.151.1428526500.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <mg46l7$2sr$5@dont-email.me>
Message-ID: <CAFPwPpQtvTNBe8b5VONMO=TErp2a+wXg1=FAeTAYY3xPJ=gzaQ@mail.gmail.com>

(sorry if I'm spamming the mailing list, my reply didn't seem to show
up in the archive)

I'm making a 'declarative string manipulation' tool, the interface of
which should work like this:

>>> rules(r'(?P<outer>(?P<inner>a?))(?P<separate>b?)', {
...   'separate': '.suffix',
...   'inner': 'abc',
...   'outer': lambda string: 'some-{}-manipulation'.format(string)
... }).apply('a')
'some-abc-manipulation.suffix'

Since the 'inner' group is nested, it should be replaced first, then
the replacement function for 'outer' will continue the replacements.
When 'inner' matches the empty string and its span is identical to
'outer', then I need to know whether it is nested, or if it's outside
like 'separate'.

> Pardon me for stating the obvious,

No problem, I can see why my question is weird. I actually implemented
the interface above before I realized that these ambiguities even
existed.

On 08/04/2015, Denis McMahon <denismfmcmahon at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Wed, 08 Apr 2015 22:54:57 +0200, Mattias Ugelvik wrote:
>
>> Example: re.compile('(?P<outer>(?P<inner>a))')
>>
>> How can I detect that 'inner' is a nested group of 'outer'? I know that
>> 'inner' comes later, because I can use the `regex.groupindex` (thanks to
>> your help earlier:
>> https://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/2015-April/701594.html).
>
> Pardon me for stating the obvious, but as the person defining the re, and
> assuming you haven't generated another sub-pattern somewhere in the same
> re with the same name, how can inner ever not be a nested group of outer?
>
> Even in the contrived example below, it is clear that the list of tuples
> generated by by findall is of the form:
>
> ()[0] = 'outer', ()[1] = 'inner'
>
> from the order of matches principle.
>
> --------------------------------
>
> #!/usr/bin/python
>
> import re
>
> patt = re.compile('(?P<outer>a+(?P<inner>b+))')
>
> result = patt.findall('abaabbaaabbbaaaabbbb')
>
> print result
>
> --------------------------------
>
> however if all you are doing is using .search or .find for the first
> match of the pattern, then there should be no scope for confusion anyway.
>
> --
> Denis McMahon, denismfmcmahon at gmail.com
> --
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>


From ckaynor at zindagigames.com  Wed Apr  8 20:01:42 2015
From: ckaynor at zindagigames.com (Chris Kaynor)
Date: Wed, 8 Apr 2015 17:01:42 -0700
Subject: Best search algorithm to find condition within a range
In-Reply-To: <876196cm1e.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
References: <2e3a3c01-20b3-4948-9b32-bd80ed46822b@googlegroups.com>
 <552460cc$0$13002$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <N_gVw.164921$sZ5.11899@fx14.am4>
 <876196cm1e.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
Message-ID: <CALvWhxvUnvDZONqshnUi4QENCvUNCxTwhD9oYkCpN8-CMN-y2Q@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Apr 8, 2015 at 3:06 PM, Marko Rauhamaa <marko at pacujo.net> wrote:
> BartC <bc at freeuk.com>:
>
>> So the the number 3,012,345, in base 1000000, could represented in
>> text form as the two 'digit':
>>
>>  (3, 12345)
>>
>> ie. 3*1000000 + 12345*1. In internal binary, each digit can just be
>> stored in the normal form, probably as one digit per 32-bit integer.
>>
>> (I have a big integer library that works exactly this way, using a
>> decimal representation, but using base 1000000 with digits 0 to
>> 999999, rather than base 10 and digits 0 to 9.)
>
> It is common to implement big integers in base-2**16, base-2**32 or
> base-2**64. Arithmetics is performed just like in elementary school.

While basically true, its not quite true: there are generally more
efficient but more complex algorithms for the computations than are
typically taught in school. For example, multiplication will often be
done with the Karatsuba algorithm, which is O(n^1.585)[1], rather than
long multiplication, which is O(n^2). Processors internally often use
shift-and-add, which is a variation on long multiplication, and is
fairly easy to implement in hardware for fixed-size integers.

[1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karatsuba_algorithm


From steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info  Wed Apr  8 22:32:26 2015
From: steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: Thu, 09 Apr 2015 12:32:26 +1000
Subject: Best search algorithm to find condition within a range
References: <2e3a3c01-20b3-4948-9b32-bd80ed46822b@googlegroups.com>
 <552460cc$0$13002$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <mailman.132.1428457776.12925.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <5525e4bb$0$12991$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

On Wed, 8 Apr 2015 11:49 am, Chris Angelico wrote:

> You could use base 1,114,112 fairly readily in any decent modern
> programming language. That'll happily represent base one-million.


Well, not really...

Here is the breakdown of Unicode code points by category, as of Python 3.3:

# Other
Cc: 65 (control characters)
Cf: 139 (format characters)
Cn: 864415 (unassigned)
Co: 137468 (private use)
Cs: 2048 (surrogates)

# Letters
Ll: 1751 (lowercase)
Lm: 237 (modifier)
Lo: 97553 (other)
Lt: 31 (titlecase)
Lu: 1441 (uppercase)

# Marks
Mc: 353 (spacing combining)
Me: 12 (enclosing)
Mn: 1280 (nonspacing)

# Numbers
Nd: 460 (decimal digit)
Nl: 224 (letter)
No: 464 (other)

# Punctuation
Pc: 10 (connector)
Pd: 23 (dash)
Pe: 71 (close)
Pf: 10 (final quote)
Pi: 12 (initial quote)
Po: 434 (other)
Ps: 72 (open)

# Symbols
Sc: 48 (currency)
Sk: 115 (modifier)
Sm: 952 (math)
So: 4404 (other)

# Separator
Zl: 1 (line)
Zs: 18 (paragraph)
Zp: 1 (space)


Clearly we shouldn't use control or format characters, surrogates,
separators, marks, etc. (At least, I hope it is clear why you don't want,
say, newlines, to be used as digits.) Punctuation is borderline, as are
symbols, since that won't interoperate well with anything else. How can you
parse number+number if the numbers themselves might contain + signs? I
wouldn't use unassigned code points, as that is all but guaranteed to lead
to future problems, but I might reluctantly allow private use. That leaves
us the following which *may* be suitable:

Co: 137468 (private use)
Ll: 1751 (lowercase)
Lo: 97553 (other)
Lt: 31 (titlecase)
Lu: 1441 (uppercase)
Nd: 460 (decimal digit)
Nl: 224 (letter)
No: 464 (other)
Sc: 48 (currency)
Sm: 952 (math)
So: 4404 (other)

which comes to a total of 244796, far short of a million. Add in the 632
punctuation marks if you like, and we're short.

There are other problems too:

- Confusables. Can you tell the difference between A?? versus ?A?, 
  or ??B versus B??? Or even O versus 0?

- Lack of glyphs for the majority of those code points in most fonts. 
  Most numbers will look like a sequence of boxes.

- Difficulty of data entry.

- Some people's digits will not have the value that they expect,
  e.g. digit '1' might not have the numeric value 1, for at least
  all-but-ten of the 460 different decimal digits in use.

- Realistically, who is going to use this?

Even as an intellectual exercise, using huge bases for human input and
output isn't very useful. The idea of using massive implicit bases for the
internal implementation of BigNums is quite reasonable, but for human input
and output, it doesn't fly.



-- 
Steven



From rosuav at gmail.com  Wed Apr  8 22:39:11 2015
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Thu, 9 Apr 2015 12:39:11 +1000
Subject: Best search algorithm to find condition within a range
In-Reply-To: <5525e4bb$0$12991$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
References: <2e3a3c01-20b3-4948-9b32-bd80ed46822b@googlegroups.com>
 <552460cc$0$13002$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <mailman.132.1428457776.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <5525e4bb$0$12991$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmqu+61aNbcgvJMby-+inFHWAafQmUvMF6X=qy1Fjdmh0g@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Apr 9, 2015 at 12:32 PM, Steven D'Aprano
<steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info> wrote:
> - Realistically, who is going to use this?

Nobody. I was never suggesting it as a serious option; just threw it
out there as another dumb alternative :)

ChrisA


From antoon.pardon at rece.vub.ac.be  Thu Apr  9 03:32:23 2015
From: antoon.pardon at rece.vub.ac.be (Antoon Pardon)
Date: Thu, 09 Apr 2015 09:32:23 +0200
Subject: Proposal for new minor syntax
In-Reply-To: <551685e2$0$12994$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
References: <CAPauRLMMAT-OffHTYW6GPybAZzouc7H9BjrmvVQiSig0X3x+ig@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.278.1427489337.10327.python-list@python.org>
 <GplRw.1325750$ls6.204434@fx16.am4>
 <55167a22$0$13013$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <551685e2$0$12994$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <55262B07.7050900@rece.vub.ac.be>

On 03/28/2015 11:43 AM, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> On Sat, 28 Mar 2015 08:53 pm, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
>
>
>> It saves typing. It might even allow a micro-optimization in the generated
>> bytecode (see below). 
> Oops, I forgot to include the "see below" bit.
>
> Comparing 
>
> a = a.spam()
>
> a .= spam()
>
>
> the Python compiler could perhaps optimize the second form and avoid needing
> two references to "a" (once for the attribute lookup, once for the
> binding). That's not very exciting when it comes to a simple expression
> like the above, but consider:
>
> a[b][c].d.e[f].g = a[b][c].d.e[f].g.spam()
>
>
> *If* that could be optimized, and I'm not certain it can be, that would be
> an argument in favour of the proposal.

I don't understand why you should doubt this. The optimisation is just
the sames as with augmented operators.

tmp = a[b][c].d.e[f]
tmp.g = tmp.g.spam() 



From storchaka at gmail.com  Thu Apr  9 03:49:03 2015
From: storchaka at gmail.com (Serhiy Storchaka)
Date: Thu, 09 Apr 2015 10:49:03 +0300
Subject: How to find out which named regular expression group corresponds
 to which positional regex group
In-Reply-To: <CAFPwPpT=Gxi-4xmhVz0wJh0eAMAhejjQaLZFmx2QZoTeukNSxg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAFPwPpT=Gxi-4xmhVz0wJh0eAMAhejjQaLZFmx2QZoTeukNSxg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <mg5atf$r07$1@ger.gmane.org>

On 08.04.15 16:23, Mattias Ugelvik wrote:
> I'm making a string manipulation tool in which I need to know this correlation.
>
> Take this example: re.match('(?P<first>a?)(?P<second>b?)', '')
>
> I need to know that 'first' is group #1, and 'second' is group #2. I
> need this to resolve certain ambiguities. I was hopin

 >>> re.compile('(?P<first>a?)(?P<second>b?)').groupindex
mappingproxy({'first': 1, 'second': 2})




From janhein.vanderburg at gmail.com  Thu Apr  9 05:11:34 2015
From: janhein.vanderburg at gmail.com (janhein.vanderburg at gmail.com)
Date: Thu, 9 Apr 2015 02:11:34 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: python implementation of a new integer encoding algorithm.
In-Reply-To: <mailman.18892.1424369100.18130.python-list@python.org>
References: <e45a71b2-7ec0-4c7d-88ae-c48aebe154b7@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.18784.1424182393.18130.python-list@python.org>
 <515047c1-a20d-430e-a029-1c2d77db2f1a@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.18823.1424278025.18130.python-list@python.org>
 <2a717ffb-d61d-4407-9082-1c17cd7ee573@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.18839.1424298000.18130.python-list@python.org>
 <993f64c3-fc85-48a7-9d02-a4f12ecb33c6@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.18892.1424369100.18130.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <e0a3ac2a-e6bd-4419-8503-e6bbb1dcaa81@googlegroups.com>

Op donderdag 19 februari 2015 19:05:12 UTC+1 schreef Ian:
> That stop-bit variant looks extremely inefficient (and wrong) to me.
You are right; I was wrong.

> encoding with just a small amount of binary at the end. This is what I
> would expect a 2-bit stop-bit encoding to look like:
> 
> 0: 00
> 1: 01
> 2: 11, 00
> 3: 11, 01
> 4: 11, 10, 00
> 5: 11, 10, 01
> 6: 11, 11, 00
> 7: 11, 11, 01
> 8: 11, 10, 10, 00
> 9: 11, 10, 10, 01
> 10: 11, 10, 11, 00

This is indeed what the current algorithms will produce.
In http://optarbvalintenc.blogspot.nl/2015/04/the-new-proposal.html I propose to improve that as follows:

0: 00
1: 01
2: 10, 00
3: 10, 01
4: 11, 00
5: 11, 01
6: 10, 10, 00
etc.



From bc at freeuk.com  Thu Apr  9 05:19:21 2015
From: bc at freeuk.com (BartC)
Date: Thu, 09 Apr 2015 10:19:21 +0100
Subject: Best search algorithm to find condition within a range
In-Reply-To: <876196cm1e.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
References: <2e3a3c01-20b3-4948-9b32-bd80ed46822b@googlegroups.com>	<552460cc$0$13002$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>	<N_gVw.164921$sZ5.11899@fx14.am4>
 <876196cm1e.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
Message-ID: <xurVw.125673$7_1.63712@fx15.am4>

On 08/04/2015 23:06, Marko Rauhamaa wrote:
> BartC <bc at freeuk.com>:
>
>> So the the number 3,012,345, in base 1000000, could represented in
>> text form as the two 'digit':
>>
>>   (3, 12345)
>>
>> ie. 3*1000000 + 12345*1. In internal binary, each digit can just be
>> stored in the normal form, probably as one digit per 32-bit integer.
>>
>> (I have a big integer library that works exactly this way, using a
>> decimal representation, but using base 1000000 with digits 0 to
>> 999999, rather than base 10 and digits 0 to 9.)
>
> It is common to implement big integers in base-2**16, base-2**32 or
> base-2**64.

This was a development of a version that used base-10 strings to encode 
the numbers.

It might be a magnitude slower than, say, built-in Python big integers, 
but a huge advantage had been in being able to print out the results 
easily without needing division.

(I know that there is some algorithm to print an arbitrary precision 
binary number using shifts and masks, but I didn't know it then.)

 > Arithmetics is performed just like in elementary school.

Not in the school I went to; we used decimal!

-- 
Bartc




From palpandi111 at gmail.com  Thu Apr  9 05:31:40 2015
From: palpandi111 at gmail.com (Palpandi)
Date: Thu, 9 Apr 2015 02:31:40 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Exception Handling
Message-ID: <b6461fc8-a18b-4d61-86f9-65370b0a149d@googlegroups.com>

Hi all,

Is there any way to roll back or undo changes which are all done before exception occurs.


From janhein.vanderburg at gmail.com  Thu Apr  9 05:33:13 2015
From: janhein.vanderburg at gmail.com (janhein.vanderburg at gmail.com)
Date: Thu, 9 Apr 2015 02:33:13 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: python implementation of a new integer encoding algorithm.
In-Reply-To: <mailman.18894.1424370292.18130.python-list@python.org>
References: <e45a71b2-7ec0-4c7d-88ae-c48aebe154b7@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.18784.1424182393.18130.python-list@python.org>
 <515047c1-a20d-430e-a029-1c2d77db2f1a@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.18823.1424278025.18130.python-list@python.org>
 <2a717ffb-d61d-4407-9082-1c17cd7ee573@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.18839.1424298000.18130.python-list@python.org>
 <993f64c3-fc85-48a7-9d02-a4f12ecb33c6@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.18894.1424370292.18130.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <c6007d78-7c21-4841-814f-4ca529889298@googlegroups.com>

Op donderdag 19 februari 2015 19:25:14 UTC+1 schreef Dave Angel:
> I wrote the following pair of functions:
> 
> def seven_code(n):
>      acc = bytearray()
>      if n == 0:
>          acc.append(0)
>      while n > 0:
>          quotient, remainder = divmod(n, 128)
>          acc.append(remainder)
>          n = quotient
>      acc[-1] |= 0x80            #add a stop bit to last byte
>      return acc
> 
> def seven_decode(sequ):
>      acc = 0
>      multiplier = 1
>      for by in sequ:
>          acc += (by & 0x7f) * multiplier
>          if by > 0x7f:
>              break
>          multiplier *= 128
>      return acc
> 
> Here's a couple of ranges of output, showing that the 7bit scheme does 
> better for values between 384 and 16379.
Thanks for this test; I obviously should have done it myself.
Please have a look at http://optarbvalintenc.blogspot.nl/2015/04/inputs-from-complangpython.html and the next two postings.



From marko at pacujo.net  Thu Apr  9 06:00:05 2015
From: marko at pacujo.net (Marko Rauhamaa)
Date: Thu, 09 Apr 2015 13:00:05 +0300
Subject: Best search algorithm to find condition within a range
References: <2e3a3c01-20b3-4948-9b32-bd80ed46822b@googlegroups.com>
 <552460cc$0$13002$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <N_gVw.164921$sZ5.11899@fx14.am4> <876196cm1e.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <xurVw.125673$7_1.63712@fx15.am4>
Message-ID: <87k2xlzknu.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>

BartC <bc at freeuk.com>:

> On 08/04/2015 23:06, Marko Rauhamaa wrote:
>> Arithmetics is performed just like in elementary school.
>
> Not in the school I went to; we used decimal!

The basic arithmetic algorithms are independent of the base.

For example, here's how you can add two 128-bit integers in C using
64-bit digits:

    typedef struct {
        uint64_t lo, hi;
    } uint128_t;

    uint128_t add128(uint128_t x, uint128_t y)
    {
        uint128_t result = {
            .lo = x.lo + y.lo,
            .hi = x.hi + y.hi
        };
        if (result.lo < x.lo)
            result.hi++;
        return result;
    }

Works both for signed and unsigned integers.    


Marko


From subhabrata.banerji at gmail.com  Thu Apr  9 06:25:57 2015
From: subhabrata.banerji at gmail.com (subhabrata.banerji at gmail.com)
Date: Thu, 9 Apr 2015 03:25:57 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: How to convert .doc file to .txt in Python
Message-ID: <5ae39c5a-2c9d-4a66-9c29-911877887ac8@googlegroups.com>

Dear Group,

I was trying to convert .doc file to .txt file. 

I got of python-docx, zipfile but they do not seem to help me much. 

You may kindly suggest how to convert from .doc to .docx/.html/.pdf/.rtf as from them I am being able to convert to .txt. 

If any one of the Python experts may kindly help me. 

Regards,
Subhabrata Banerjee.  


From __peter__ at web.de  Thu Apr  9 06:26:24 2015
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Thu, 09 Apr 2015 12:26:24 +0200
Subject: Code critique please
References: <53f4c2fd-a20c-4d09-8719-8f3f9b80670b@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <mg5k4n$67u$1@ger.gmane.org>

kai.peters at gmail.com wrote:

> I just wrote this bit (coming from Pascal) 

>     if (((xdim / 8) * ydim) + header) <> filesize:

Yeah, either Pascal or Barry Warsaw is your uncle ;)

https://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0401/

> and am wondering how seasoned
> Python programmers would have done the same? Anything terribly non-python?

> def RenderByte(draw, byte, x, y):

Please read PEP 8 for naming conventions etc.

The function at the core of your code

> def RenderByte(draw, byte, x, y):
> 
>     blist = list(bin(byte).lstrip('0b')) # turn byte into list with 8
>     elements,
>     c = 0                                # each representing one bit
>     for bit in blist:
>         if bit:
>             draw.point((x + c, y), fcolor)
>             
>         c += 1
>     return

can be fixed/micro-optimised, and if I were to do that I'd precreate a 
lookup table that maps every byte (i. e. value in the range 0...255) to a 
sequence of offsets 

lookup = [
    (),      # for b"\x00" the inner loop is empty
    (0),
    (1),
    (0, 1),
    ...
    (0, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7), # for b"\xFF" the inner loop comprises 
                              # all 8 bits
]
or to a 8x1 image, but my idea of a "seasoned Python programmer" will try to 
keep the big picture in mind -- and that is that handling individual 
bits/pixels in Python is inefficient. Therefore many libraries tend to offer 
an alternative that is both easier to use and faster.

In this case that's

   img = Image.frombytes("1", (width, height), data)
 
and with the extra comfort of reading the size from the EPD file

from PIL import Image
import struct

EPDFILE = "tmp.epd"
PNGFILE = "tmp.png"

class EPDError(Exception):
    pass

with open(EPDFILE, "rb") as f:
    header = f.read(16)
    width, height, colordepth = struct.unpack("<HHb", header[1:6])
    if colordepth != 1:
        raise EPDError("Unsupported color depth {}".format(colordepth))
    data = f.read()
    datasize = width // 8 * height
    if len(data) != datasize:
        raise EPDError(
            "Inconsistent pixel data size. "
            "Expected {} but got {} bytes".format(
                datasize, len(data)))
    img = Image.frombytes("1", (width, height), data)
    img.save(PNGFILE)


I'm assuming the header follows the format spec given in this PDF:

http://www.pervasivedisplays.com/_literature_112691/Developer_Guide_for_Demo_Kit

PS: I thought that Image.frombytes() was already pointed out to you, but I 
failed to find it in the archives. So there.



From rosuav at gmail.com  Thu Apr  9 06:36:51 2015
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Thu, 9 Apr 2015 20:36:51 +1000
Subject: Exception Handling
In-Reply-To: <b6461fc8-a18b-4d61-86f9-65370b0a149d@googlegroups.com>
References: <b6461fc8-a18b-4d61-86f9-65370b0a149d@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmoerM8h9BwgZQXcbWYviZTFnup3-vYkQ6YkrH_dvH7KNw@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Apr 9, 2015 at 7:31 PM, Palpandi <palpandi111 at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> Is there any way to roll back or undo changes which are all done before exception occurs.

In Python itself? Not directly; there are no facilities for undoing
Python code. But if you're serious about integrity, you probably want
to be (or already are) using a database, eg PostgreSQL, and storing
data in there. In that case, you can follow a fairly straight-forward
model, and one that some database connection modules even make easy
for you:

with dbconnection:
    # do stuff that might affect the database
    # and might throw an exception

As you leave the 'with' block, Python will tell the database
connection "hey, we got out without a problem", or "hey, we're leaving
here because of an exception". In the first case, the database will
commit, so everything you've done really happens. In the second, it'll
roll back, which will undo everything perfectly.

But this applies only to the database. For this to work, you have to
organize your code around that; make sure that everything that matters
is in the database, and local objects can't ever need to be "undone".

ChrisA


From subhabrata.banerji at gmail.com  Thu Apr  9 06:50:16 2015
From: subhabrata.banerji at gmail.com (subhabrata.banerji at gmail.com)
Date: Thu, 9 Apr 2015 03:50:16 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: How to convert .doc file to .txt in Python
In-Reply-To: <5ae39c5a-2c9d-4a66-9c29-911877887ac8@googlegroups.com>
References: <5ae39c5a-2c9d-4a66-9c29-911877887ac8@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <59a38b06-97f5-427e-9520-3682df8a8914@googlegroups.com>

On Thursday, April 9, 2015 at 3:56:09 PM UTC+5:30, subhabrat... at gmail.com wrote:
> Dear Group,
> 
> I was trying to convert .doc file to .txt file. 
> 
> I got of python-docx, zipfile but they do not seem to help me much. 
> 
> You may kindly suggest how to convert from .doc to .docx/.html/.pdf/.rtf as from them I am being able to convert to .txt. 
> 
> If any one of the Python experts may kindly help me. 
> 
> Regards,
> Subhabrata Banerjee.

I could do one it seems running with 
>>> import win32com.client as win32
>>> word = win32.Dispatch("Word.Application")
>>> word.Visible = 0
>>> word.Documents.Open("/python27/Document1.doc")
<COMObject Open>
>>> doc = word.ActiveDocument

seems working. You may suggest better. 


From mail at timgolden.me.uk  Thu Apr  9 06:53:39 2015
From: mail at timgolden.me.uk (Tim Golden)
Date: Thu, 09 Apr 2015 11:53:39 +0100
Subject: How to convert .doc file to .txt in Python
In-Reply-To: <5ae39c5a-2c9d-4a66-9c29-911877887ac8@googlegroups.com>
References: <5ae39c5a-2c9d-4a66-9c29-911877887ac8@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <55265A33.9070800@timgolden.me.uk>

On 09/04/2015 11:25, subhabrata.banerji at gmail.com wrote:
> Dear Group,
> 
> I was trying to convert .doc file to .txt file.
> 
> I got of python-docx, zipfile but they do not seem to help me much.
> 
> You may kindly suggest how to convert from .doc to
> .docx/.html/.pdf/.rtf as from them I am being able to convert to
> .txt.
> 
> If any one of the Python experts may kindly help me.


There are several approaches, but this one will work (assuming you are
on Windows and have the pywin32 package installed):

<code>
import os
import win32com.client

DOC_FILEPATH = "c:/temp/something.docx"
doc = win32com.client.GetObject(DOC_FILEPATH)
text = doc.Range().Text

#
# do something with the text...
#
with open("something.txt", "wb") as f:
	f.write(text.encode("utf-8"))

os.startfile("something.txt")

</code>

TJG


From python.list at tim.thechases.com  Thu Apr  9 07:10:46 2015
From: python.list at tim.thechases.com (Tim Chase)
Date: Thu, 9 Apr 2015 06:10:46 -0500
Subject: How to convert .doc file to .txt in Python
In-Reply-To: <5ae39c5a-2c9d-4a66-9c29-911877887ac8@googlegroups.com>
References: <5ae39c5a-2c9d-4a66-9c29-911877887ac8@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <20150409061046.7253791d@bigbox.christie.dr>

On 2015-04-09 03:25, subhabrata.banerji at gmail.com wrote:
> You may kindly suggest how to convert from .doc
> to .docx/.html/.pdf/.rtf as from them I am being able to convert
> to .txt. 

Use an external tool such as "wv", "antiword", or "catdoc" that has
already done the hard work for you.

-tkc






From alain at dpt-info.u-strasbg.fr  Thu Apr  9 07:57:48 2015
From: alain at dpt-info.u-strasbg.fr (Alain Ketterlin)
Date: Thu, 09 Apr 2015 13:57:48 +0200
Subject: Best search algorithm to find condition within a range
References: <2e3a3c01-20b3-4948-9b32-bd80ed46822b@googlegroups.com>
 <552460cc$0$13002$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <N_gVw.164921$sZ5.11899@fx14.am4> <876196cm1e.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <xurVw.125673$7_1.63712@fx15.am4> <87k2xlzknu.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
Message-ID: <8738498qf7.fsf@dpt-info.u-strasbg.fr>

Marko Rauhamaa <marko at pacujo.net> writes:

> The basic arithmetic algorithms are independent of the base.

Right.

> For example, here's how you can add two 128-bit integers in C using
> 64-bit digits:
>
>     typedef struct {
>         uint64_t lo, hi;
>     } uint128_t;
>
>     uint128_t add128(uint128_t x, uint128_t y)
>     {
>         uint128_t result = {
>             .lo = x.lo + y.lo,
>             .hi = x.hi + y.hi
>         };
>         if (result.lo < x.lo)
>             result.hi++;
>         return result;
>     }
>
> Works both for signed and unsigned integers.    

(Slightly off-topic, but...)

No, it would not work for signed integers (i.e., with lo and hi of
int64_t type), because overflow is undefined behavior for signed.

-- Alain.


From davea at davea.name  Thu Apr  9 08:03:51 2015
From: davea at davea.name (Dave Angel)
Date: Thu, 09 Apr 2015 08:03:51 -0400
Subject: python implementation of a new integer encoding algorithm.
In-Reply-To: <c6007d78-7c21-4841-814f-4ca529889298@googlegroups.com>
References: <e45a71b2-7ec0-4c7d-88ae-c48aebe154b7@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.18784.1424182393.18130.python-list@python.org>
 <515047c1-a20d-430e-a029-1c2d77db2f1a@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.18823.1424278025.18130.python-list@python.org>
 <2a717ffb-d61d-4407-9082-1c17cd7ee573@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.18839.1424298000.18130.python-list@python.org>
 <993f64c3-fc85-48a7-9d02-a4f12ecb33c6@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.18894.1424370292.18130.python-list@python.org>
 <c6007d78-7c21-4841-814f-4ca529889298@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <55266AA7.6010405@davea.name>

On 04/09/2015 05:33 AM, janhein.vanderburg at gmail.com wrote:
> Op donderdag 19 februari 2015 19:25:14 UTC+1 schreef Dave Angel:
>> I wrote the following pair of functions:

    <snip>
>>
>> Here's a couple of ranges of output, showing that the 7bit scheme does
>> better for values between 384 and 16379.
> Thanks for this test; I obviously should have done it myself.
> Please have a look at http://optarbvalintenc.blogspot.nl/2015/04/inputs-from-complangpython.html and the next two postings.
>

I still don't see where you have anywhere declared what your goal is. 
Like building a recursive compression scheme [1], if you don't have a 
specific goal in mind, you'll never actually be sure you've achieved it, 
even though you might be able to fool the patent examiners.

Any method of encoding will be worse for some values in order to be 
better for others.  Without specifying a distribution, you cannot tell 
whether a "typical" set of integers is better with one method than another.

For example, if you have uniform distribution of all integer values up 
to 256**n-1, you will not be able to beat a straight n-byte binary storage.

Other than that, I make no claims that any of the schemes previously 
discussed in this thread is unbeatable.

You also haven't made it clear whether you're assuming such a compressed 
bit stream is required to occupy an integral number of bytes.  For 
example, if your goal is to store a bunch of these arbitrary length 
integers in a file of minimal size, then you're talking classic 
compression techniques.  Or maybe you should be minimizing the time to 
convert such a bit stream to and from a conventional one.

I suggest you study Huffman encoding[2], and see what makes it tick.  It 
makes the assumptions that there are a finite set of symbols, and that 
there exists a probability distribution of the likelihood of each 
symbol, and that each takes an integral number of *bits*.

Then study arithmetic-encoding[3], which no longer assumes that a single 
symbol occupy a whole number of bits.  A mind-blowing concept. 
Incidentally, it introduces a "stop-symbol" which is given a very low 
probability.

See the book "Text Compression", 1990, by Bell, Cleary, and Witten.

[1] - http://gailly.net/05533051.html
[2] - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Huffman_coding
[3] - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arithmetic_coding

If you're going to continue the discussion on python-list, you probably 
should start a new thread, state your actual goals, and


-- 
DaveA



From marko at pacujo.net  Thu Apr  9 08:45:13 2015
From: marko at pacujo.net (Marko Rauhamaa)
Date: Thu, 09 Apr 2015 15:45:13 +0300
Subject: Best search algorithm to find condition within a range
References: <2e3a3c01-20b3-4948-9b32-bd80ed46822b@googlegroups.com>
 <552460cc$0$13002$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <N_gVw.164921$sZ5.11899@fx14.am4> <876196cm1e.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <xurVw.125673$7_1.63712@fx15.am4> <87k2xlzknu.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <8738498qf7.fsf@dpt-info.u-strasbg.fr>
Message-ID: <87fv89zd0m.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>

Alain Ketterlin <alain at dpt-info.u-strasbg.fr>:

> No, it would not work for signed integers (i.e., with lo and hi of
> int64_t type), because overflow is undefined behavior for signed.

All architectures I've ever had dealings with have used 2's-complement
integers. Overflow is well-defined, well-behaved and sign-independent
wrt addition, subtraction and multiplication (but not division).


Marko


From alain at dpt-info.u-strasbg.fr  Thu Apr  9 08:56:04 2015
From: alain at dpt-info.u-strasbg.fr (Alain Ketterlin)
Date: Thu, 09 Apr 2015 14:56:04 +0200
Subject: Best search algorithm to find condition within a range
References: <2e3a3c01-20b3-4948-9b32-bd80ed46822b@googlegroups.com>
 <552460cc$0$13002$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <N_gVw.164921$sZ5.11899@fx14.am4> <876196cm1e.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <xurVw.125673$7_1.63712@fx15.am4> <87k2xlzknu.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <8738498qf7.fsf@dpt-info.u-strasbg.fr>
 <87fv89zd0m.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
Message-ID: <87y4m1795n.fsf@dpt-info.u-strasbg.fr>

Marko Rauhamaa <marko at pacujo.net> writes:

> Alain Ketterlin <alain at dpt-info.u-strasbg.fr>:
>
>> No, it would not work for signed integers (i.e., with lo and hi of
>> int64_t type), because overflow is undefined behavior for signed.
>
> All architectures I've ever had dealings with have used 2's-complement
> integers. Overflow is well-defined, well-behaved and sign-independent
> wrt addition, subtraction and multiplication (but not division).

You are confused: 2's complement does not necessarily mean modular
arithmetic. See, e.g.,
http://stackoverflow.com/questions/16188263/is-signed-integer-overflow-still-undefined-behavior-in-c

-- Alain.


From davea at davea.name  Thu Apr  9 09:19:07 2015
From: davea at davea.name (Dave Angel)
Date: Thu, 09 Apr 2015 09:19:07 -0400
Subject: Best search algorithm to find condition within a range
In-Reply-To: <87y4m1795n.fsf@dpt-info.u-strasbg.fr>
References: <2e3a3c01-20b3-4948-9b32-bd80ed46822b@googlegroups.com>
 <552460cc$0$13002$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <N_gVw.164921$sZ5.11899@fx14.am4> <876196cm1e.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <xurVw.125673$7_1.63712@fx15.am4> <87k2xlzknu.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <8738498qf7.fsf@dpt-info.u-strasbg.fr> <87fv89zd0m.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <87y4m1795n.fsf@dpt-info.u-strasbg.fr>
Message-ID: <55267C4B.9070605@davea.name>

On 04/09/2015 08:56 AM, Alain Ketterlin wrote:
> Marko Rauhamaa <marko at pacujo.net> writes:
>
>> Alain Ketterlin <alain at dpt-info.u-strasbg.fr>:
>>
>>> No, it would not work for signed integers (i.e., with lo and hi of
>>> int64_t type), because overflow is undefined behavior for signed.
>>
>> All architectures I've ever had dealings with have used 2's-complement
>> integers. Overflow is well-defined, well-behaved and sign-independent
>> wrt addition, subtraction and multiplication (but not division).
>
> You are confused: 2's complement does not necessarily mean modular
> arithmetic. See, e.g.,
> http://stackoverflow.com/questions/16188263/is-signed-integer-overflow-still-undefined-behavior-in-c
>

So the C standard can specify such things as undefined.  The 
architecture still will do something specific, right or wrong, and 
that's what Marko's claim was about.  The C compiler has separate types 
for unsigned and for signed, while the underlying architecture of every 
twos complement machine I have used did add, subtract, and multiply as 
though the numbers were unsigned (what you call modular arithmetic).

In my microcoding days, the ALU did only unsigned arithmetic, while the 
various status bits had to be interpreted to decide whether a particular 
result was overflow or had a carry.  It was in interpreting those status 
bits that you had to use the knowledge of whether a particular value was 
signed or unsigned.

Then the microcode had to present those values up to the machine 
language level.  And at that level, we had no carry bits, or overflow, 
or anything directly related.

-- 
DaveA


From marko at pacujo.net  Thu Apr  9 09:28:37 2015
From: marko at pacujo.net (Marko Rauhamaa)
Date: Thu, 09 Apr 2015 16:28:37 +0300
Subject: Best search algorithm to find condition within a range
References: <2e3a3c01-20b3-4948-9b32-bd80ed46822b@googlegroups.com>
 <552460cc$0$13002$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <N_gVw.164921$sZ5.11899@fx14.am4> <876196cm1e.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <xurVw.125673$7_1.63712@fx15.am4> <87k2xlzknu.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <8738498qf7.fsf@dpt-info.u-strasbg.fr>
 <87fv89zd0m.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <87y4m1795n.fsf@dpt-info.u-strasbg.fr>
Message-ID: <878ue1zb0a.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>

Alain Ketterlin <alain at dpt-info.u-strasbg.fr>:

> Marko Rauhamaa <marko at pacujo.net> writes:
>
>> Alain Ketterlin <alain at dpt-info.u-strasbg.fr>:
>>
>>> No, it would not work for signed integers (i.e., with lo and hi of
>>> int64_t type), because overflow is undefined behavior for signed.
>>
>> All architectures I've ever had dealings with have used 2's-complement
>> integers. Overflow is well-defined, well-behaved and sign-independent
>> wrt addition, subtraction and multiplication (but not division).
>
> You are confused: 2's complement does not necessarily mean modular
> arithmetic. See, e.g.,
> http://stackoverflow.com/questions/16188263/is-signed-integer-overflow-still-undefined-behavior-in-c

Ah, ok, I misunderstood your point. However, what I meant originally is
that the given uintX_t implementation would work even if it were given
intX_t arguments, and the returned uintX_t can be assigned to an intX_t
variable safely.


Marko


From marko at pacujo.net  Thu Apr  9 09:33:39 2015
From: marko at pacujo.net (Marko Rauhamaa)
Date: Thu, 09 Apr 2015 16:33:39 +0300
Subject: Best search algorithm to find condition within a range
References: <2e3a3c01-20b3-4948-9b32-bd80ed46822b@googlegroups.com>
 <552460cc$0$13002$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <N_gVw.164921$sZ5.11899@fx14.am4> <876196cm1e.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <xurVw.125673$7_1.63712@fx15.am4> <87k2xlzknu.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <8738498qf7.fsf@dpt-info.u-strasbg.fr>
 <87fv89zd0m.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <87y4m1795n.fsf@dpt-info.u-strasbg.fr>
 <mailman.165.1428585562.12925.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <874mopzarw.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>

Dave Angel <davea at davea.name>:

> So the C standard can specify such things as undefined. The
> architecture still will do something specific, right or wrong, and
> that's what Marko's claim was about. The C compiler has separate types
> for unsigned and for signed, while the underlying architecture of
> every twos complement machine I have used did add, subtract, and
> multiply as though the numbers were unsigned (what you call modular
> arithmetic).

Alain did have a point. *If* I had used int64_t in my algorithm, it
might not have worked because the compiler could legally produce code
that crashes or does weird things in case of a signed integer overflow.

In this day and age, heavily optimized compilers (including gcc)
actively exploit undefined behavior in code generation.

However, I didn't use int64_t, I used uint64_t.


Marko


From marko at pacujo.net  Thu Apr  9 09:49:46 2015
From: marko at pacujo.net (Marko Rauhamaa)
Date: Thu, 09 Apr 2015 16:49:46 +0300
Subject: Best search algorithm to find condition within a range
References: <2e3a3c01-20b3-4948-9b32-bd80ed46822b@googlegroups.com>
 <552460cc$0$13002$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <N_gVw.164921$sZ5.11899@fx14.am4> <876196cm1e.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <xurVw.125673$7_1.63712@fx15.am4> <87k2xlzknu.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <8738498qf7.fsf@dpt-info.u-strasbg.fr>
 <87fv89zd0m.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <87y4m1795n.fsf@dpt-info.u-strasbg.fr>
 <mailman.165.1428585562.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <874mopzarw.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
Message-ID: <87wq1lxvgl.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>

Marko Rauhamaa <marko at pacujo.net>:

> In this day and age, heavily optimized compilers (including gcc)
> actively exploit undefined behavior in code generation.

Example: Find the value of INT_MAX programmatically.

========================================================================
#include <stdio.h>

int main()
{
    int n = 1;
    while (n + 1 > n)
        n++;
    printf("%d\n", n);
    return 0;
}
========================================================================

========================================================================
$ # Use gcc-4.9.2
$ cc -o test test.c
$ ./test
2147483647
$ cc -O9 -o test test.c
$ ./test
^C
========================================================================

The command "cc -S -O9 test.c" shows that the compiler compiles the
while loop into:

========================================================================
.L2:
        jmp     .L2
========================================================================


Marko


From alain at dpt-info.u-strasbg.fr  Thu Apr  9 09:57:56 2015
From: alain at dpt-info.u-strasbg.fr (Alain Ketterlin)
Date: Thu, 09 Apr 2015 15:57:56 +0200
Subject: Best search algorithm to find condition within a range
References: <2e3a3c01-20b3-4948-9b32-bd80ed46822b@googlegroups.com>
 <552460cc$0$13002$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <N_gVw.164921$sZ5.11899@fx14.am4> <876196cm1e.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <xurVw.125673$7_1.63712@fx15.am4> <87k2xlzknu.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <8738498qf7.fsf@dpt-info.u-strasbg.fr>
 <87fv89zd0m.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <87y4m1795n.fsf@dpt-info.u-strasbg.fr>
 <mailman.165.1428585562.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <874mopzarw.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
Message-ID: <87twwp76aj.fsf@dpt-info.u-strasbg.fr>

Marko Rauhamaa <marko at pacujo.net> writes:

> Dave Angel <davea at davea.name>:
>
>> So the C standard can specify such things as undefined. The
>> architecture still will do something specific, right or wrong, and
>> that's what Marko's claim was about. The C compiler has separate types
>> for unsigned and for signed, while the underlying architecture of
>> every twos complement machine I have used did add, subtract, and
>> multiply as though the numbers were unsigned (what you call modular
>> arithmetic).
>
> Alain did have a point. *If* I had used int64_t in my algorithm, it
> might not have worked because the compiler could legally produce code
> that crashes or does weird things in case of a signed integer
> overflow.

Yes, exactly. Since the language semantics don't guarantee anything, the
compiler can do whatever it likes. Changing your example to use int64_t
instead of uint64_t would let the compiler remove the "overflow" test.
Because, in:

    z = x+y; // all signed ints
    if ( z < x )
        ...

either there was no overflow (and the condition is false), or there was,
and the result is undefined, i.e., "z<x" can be considered false also.

> In this day and age, heavily optimized compilers (including gcc)
> actively exploit undefined behavior in code generation.

They do. Moreover, it looks like it is very difficult to warn the user
(I'm not even sure compilers catch cases like the one above).

> However, I didn't use int64_t, I used uint64_t.

Yes, your code was ok.

-- Alain.


From rosuav at gmail.com  Thu Apr  9 10:08:27 2015
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 2015 00:08:27 +1000
Subject: Best search algorithm to find condition within a range
In-Reply-To: <87twwp76aj.fsf@dpt-info.u-strasbg.fr>
References: <2e3a3c01-20b3-4948-9b32-bd80ed46822b@googlegroups.com>
 <552460cc$0$13002$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <N_gVw.164921$sZ5.11899@fx14.am4>
 <876196cm1e.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <xurVw.125673$7_1.63712@fx15.am4>
 <87k2xlzknu.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <8738498qf7.fsf@dpt-info.u-strasbg.fr>
 <87fv89zd0m.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <87y4m1795n.fsf@dpt-info.u-strasbg.fr>
 <mailman.165.1428585562.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <874mopzarw.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <87twwp76aj.fsf@dpt-info.u-strasbg.fr>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmqQsFbLTiPLrrHeLz1z=jrZGYdXQZ22WM3yZerJfOfA1g@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Apr 9, 2015 at 11:57 PM, Alain Ketterlin
<alain at dpt-info.u-strasbg.fr> wrote:
> Because, in:
>
>     z = x+y; // all signed ints
>     if ( z < x )
>         ...
>
> either there was no overflow (and the condition is false), or there was,
> and the result is undefined, i.e., "z<x" can be considered false also.

Do you mean "all unsigned ints" here? Because if y is negative, the
condition will be true without overflow. If you didn't, then I'm
puzzled as to where the undefined behaviour is coming from.

ChrisA


From subhabrata.banerji at gmail.com  Thu Apr  9 10:40:04 2015
From: subhabrata.banerji at gmail.com (subhabrata.banerji at gmail.com)
Date: Thu, 9 Apr 2015 07:40:04 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: How to convert .doc file to .txt in Python
In-Reply-To: <mailman.162.1428576824.12925.python-list@python.org>
References: <5ae39c5a-2c9d-4a66-9c29-911877887ac8@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.162.1428576824.12925.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <b76ec120-88b2-4230-ab5b-b41c197c4203@googlegroups.com>

On Thursday, April 9, 2015 at 4:23:55 PM UTC+5:30, Tim Golden wrote:
> On 09/04/2015 11:25, wrote:
> > Dear Group,
> > 
> > I was trying to convert .doc file to .txt file.
> > 
> > I got of python-docx, zipfile but they do not seem to help me much.
> > 
> > You may kindly suggest how to convert from .doc to
> > .docx/.html/.pdf/.rtf as from them I am being able to convert to
> > .txt.
> > 
> > If any one of the Python experts may kindly help me.
> 
> 
> There are several approaches, but this one will work (assuming you are
> on Windows and have the pywin32 package installed):
> 
> <code>
> import os
> import win32com.client
> 
> DOC_FILEPATH = "c:/temp/something.docx"
> doc = win32com.client.GetObject(DOC_FILEPATH)
> text = doc.Range().Text
> 
> #
> # do something with the text...
> #
> with open("something.txt", "wb") as f:
> 	f.write(text.encode("utf-8"))
> 
> os.startfile("something.txt")
> 
> </code>
> 
> TJG

Thanks Tim it is slightly better than my solution. 


From alain at dpt-info.u-strasbg.fr  Thu Apr  9 10:53:19 2015
From: alain at dpt-info.u-strasbg.fr (Alain Ketterlin)
Date: Thu, 09 Apr 2015 16:53:19 +0200
Subject: Best search algorithm to find condition within a range
References: <2e3a3c01-20b3-4948-9b32-bd80ed46822b@googlegroups.com>
 <552460cc$0$13002$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <N_gVw.164921$sZ5.11899@fx14.am4> <876196cm1e.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <xurVw.125673$7_1.63712@fx15.am4> <87k2xlzknu.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <8738498qf7.fsf@dpt-info.u-strasbg.fr>
 <87fv89zd0m.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <87y4m1795n.fsf@dpt-info.u-strasbg.fr>
 <mailman.165.1428585562.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <874mopzarw.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <87twwp76aj.fsf@dpt-info.u-strasbg.fr>
 <mailman.166.1428588517.12925.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <87pp7d73q8.fsf@dpt-info.u-strasbg.fr>

Chris Angelico <rosuav at gmail.com> writes:

> On Thu, Apr 9, 2015 at 11:57 PM, Alain Ketterlin
> <alain at dpt-info.u-strasbg.fr> wrote:
>> Because, in:
>>
>>     z = x+y; // all signed ints
>>     if ( z < x )
>>         ...
>>
>> either there was no overflow (and the condition is false), or there was,
>> and the result is undefined, i.e., "z<x" can be considered false also.
>
> Do you mean "all unsigned ints" here? Because if y is negative, the
> condition will be true without overflow. If you didn't, then I'm
> puzzled as to where the undefined behaviour is coming from.

Ouch, you're right, I tried to stick with Marko's example and forgot the
basics. I meant "signed ints", but the "removable" condition should be
something like:

    if ( x>0 && y>0 && z<x )
        ...

i.e., some condition that is never true (either false or undefined).
Thanks for the correction.

If the variables are all unsigned ints, the potential overflow has a
well-defined meaning, and the code is correct and doesn't trigger
undefined behavior. This was Marko's initial example.

-- Alain.


From jonas.thornvall at gmail.com  Thu Apr  9 10:54:42 2015
From: jonas.thornvall at gmail.com (jonas.thornvall at gmail.com)
Date: Thu, 9 Apr 2015 07:54:42 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Best search algorithm to find condition within a range
In-Reply-To: <mailman.166.1428588517.12925.python-list@python.org>
References: <2e3a3c01-20b3-4948-9b32-bd80ed46822b@googlegroups.com>
 <552460cc$0$13002$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <N_gVw.164921$sZ5.11899@fx14.am4>
 <876196cm1e.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net> <xurVw.125673$7_1.63712@fx15.am4>
 <87k2xlzknu.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net> <8738498qf7.fsf@dpt-info.u-strasbg.fr>
 <87fv89zd0m.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net> <87y4m1795n.fsf@dpt-info.u-strasbg.fr>
 <mailman.165.1428585562.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <874mopzarw.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <87twwp76aj.fsf@dpt-info.u-strasbg.fr>
 <mailman.166.1428588517.12925.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <87b45e1d-74fb-457d-b42f-319a02567c83@googlegroups.com>

Den torsdag 9 april 2015 kl. 16:08:48 UTC+2 skrev Chris Angelico:
> On Thu, Apr 9, 2015 at 11:57 PM, Alain Ketterlin
> <alain at dpt-info.u-strasbg.fr> wrote:
> > Because, in:
> >
> >     z = x+y; // all signed ints
> >     if ( z < x )
> >         ...
> >
> > either there was no overflow (and the condition is false), or there was,
> > and the result is undefined, i.e., "z<x" can be considered false also.
> 
> Do you mean "all unsigned ints" here? Because if y is negative, the
> condition will be true without overflow. If you didn't, then I'm
> puzzled as to where the undefined behaviour is coming from.
> 
> ChrisA

Aside from the base changer i've written a bignumb anybase generic multiplication, addition and subtraction routine. My goal is to make the arithmetic in the base of choice whatever size.

And i think i can do it, i already have mult, add , subt working in anybase but not bignumb.

Does this mult work for arbitrary size?
Or will it but out at some point?


<SCRIPT LANGUAGE="Javascript">
/* MULTIPLY TWO VARIABLES */

//CONVERT A DECIMAL NUMBER INTO ANYBASE
function newbase(decNumber,base){
var out =[];
digits=1;
digmult=1;
while(digmult*base<=decNumber){
	digmult=digmult*base
        digits++;
}
digsave=digmult;
while(decNumber>0 || digits>0){
        loop=1;
        digit=0;
       	for (digit=0;digit<=base;digit++) {
        if((digit+1)*digmult>decNumber)break;
       	}
        out[digits]=digit;
        digmult=digmult*digit;
        decNumber=decNumber-digmult;
        digsave=digsave/base;
        digmult=digsave;
        digits--;
	}

return out;

}

function naiveMult(base, multOne, multTwo)
{  
   var total = [];
   var addResult = [];
   total[0] = 0;

   //Check which array bigger minimize multiplications
   if (multOne.length>multTwo.length){ mshort=multOne.length; mlong=multTwo.length;}
       else { mshort=multOne.length; mlong=multTwo.length;}

   for (var i = 0; i < mshort; i ++ )
   {
      multresult = [];
      remainder = 0;
      tempVal = 0;
      tempDig = 0;
      j = 0;

      if(i > 0)
      {
         for(zero = 0; zero < i; zero ++ ) multresult[zero] = 0;
      }

      while(j < mlong)
      {
         intMult++;
           
         tempVal = (multOne[i] * multTwo[j]) + remainder;
         remainder = 0;

         if (tempVal >= base)
         {
            tempDig = tempVal % base;
            remainder = (tempVal - tempDig) / base;
            multresult[j + i] = tempDig;
         }
         else
         {
            multresult[j + i] = tempVal;
         }
         j ++ ;
      }

      if(remainder != 0)
      {
         multresult[j + i] = remainder;
      }
      addResult=naiveAdd(base, total, multresult);
      total=addResult; 
   }
   return total;
}

/* ADD TWO VARIABLES */

function naiveAdd(base, arrOne, arrTwo)
{
   
   shortArr=[];
   longArr=[];
   addResult = [];
   remainder = 0;
   //Find shortest and longest array
   if (arrOne.length >= arrTwo.length) {shortArr = arrTwo; longArr = arrOne;}
            else  {shortArr = arrOne;longArr = arrTwo;}
   for (i = 0; i < shortArr.length; i ++ )
   {
      intAdd ++ ;
      arrOne[i] = parseInt(arrOne[i]);
      arrTwo[i] = parseInt(arrTwo[i]);
      if (isNaN(arrOne[i])) arrOne[i] = 0;
      if (isNaN(arrTwo[i])) arrTwo[i] = 0;
      addResult[i] = arrOne[i] + arrTwo[i] + remainder;
     
      if (addResult[i] >= base)
      {
         addResult[i] = addResult[i] - base;
         remainder = 1;
      }
      else
      {
         remainder = 0;
      }
   }
   //Copying values from the shorter string
   while(i<longArr.length) {longArr[i]=parseInt(longArr[i]);addResult[i]=longArr[i]+remainder; remainder=0; i++;}
   //If strings of equal lenght but there is a remainder;
   if (remainder == 1) addResult[i++] = 1;
   else addResult.splice(i, 1);
   return addResult;
}

/* MAIN */
function fetchValues()
{
intMult=0;
intAdd=0;
base=10;
x=1;
y=1;
document.calc.result.value="";
document.calc.stats.value="";
document.calc.outbase.value="";
strEval = document.calc.eval.value;
genArr = strEval.split("*");
//fONE=newbase(genArr[0],base);
//document.write(fONE[2]);
//document.calc.outbase.value +=fONE+" + \n";
//fTWO=newbase(genArr[1],base);
//document.calc.outbase.value +=fTWO+"\n";

arrOne=genArr[0].split("").reverse();
arrTwo=genArr[1].split("").reverse();
base = document.calc.formbase.value;
out=naiveMult(base,arrOne,arrTwo);
document.calc.stats.value +="Multiplications = "+intMult+"\n";
document.calc.result.value +=" Product = " + out.reverse()+"\n";
}
</SCRIPT>
<!DOCTYPE html>
<html lang="en">
<head><meta charset="utf-8"/></head>
<body bgcolor="gold" onload="fetchValues()">
<H1>Big numbers</H1><P>
<FORM name=calc onSubmit="fetchValues(); return false;">
<B>INPUT DEC-><input type=submit name="calc" value="Calc"> <input type="text" name="eval" value="32432439*12" size="300"><br>
BASE <input type="text" name="formbase" value="10" size="10"><br>
This calculation<input type="text" name="outbase" value="" size="60"><br>
<FONT COLOR="white">
RESULT<br>
<textarea name="result" rows="20" cols="120"></textarea><br>
STATUS</B><br>
<textarea name="stats" cols="120" rows="40" value=""></textarea>
</FORM>
</body>
</html>


From rosuav at gmail.com  Thu Apr  9 11:02:09 2015
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 2015 01:02:09 +1000
Subject: Best search algorithm to find condition within a range
In-Reply-To: <87pp7d73q8.fsf@dpt-info.u-strasbg.fr>
References: <2e3a3c01-20b3-4948-9b32-bd80ed46822b@googlegroups.com>
 <552460cc$0$13002$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <N_gVw.164921$sZ5.11899@fx14.am4>
 <876196cm1e.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <xurVw.125673$7_1.63712@fx15.am4>
 <87k2xlzknu.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <8738498qf7.fsf@dpt-info.u-strasbg.fr>
 <87fv89zd0m.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <87y4m1795n.fsf@dpt-info.u-strasbg.fr>
 <mailman.165.1428585562.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <874mopzarw.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <87twwp76aj.fsf@dpt-info.u-strasbg.fr>
 <mailman.166.1428588517.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <87pp7d73q8.fsf@dpt-info.u-strasbg.fr>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmp4N0WVBUBLkckTEZaPMuvW7WVUb-p6V=xS-K8d0Eb8kg@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Apr 10, 2015 at 12:53 AM, Alain Ketterlin
<alain at dpt-info.u-strasbg.fr> wrote:
> Ouch, you're right, I tried to stick with Marko's example and forgot the
> basics. I meant "signed ints", but the "removable" condition should be
> something like:
>
>     if ( x>0 && y>0 && z<x )
>         ...
>
> i.e., some condition that is never true (either false or undefined).
> Thanks for the correction.

Ah, yep. And yes, that's absolutely right - the compiler's allowed to
treat that as never true.

ChrisA


From ian.g.kelly at gmail.com  Thu Apr  9 11:03:53 2015
From: ian.g.kelly at gmail.com (Ian Kelly)
Date: Thu, 9 Apr 2015 09:03:53 -0600
Subject: Best search algorithm to find condition within a range
In-Reply-To: <87b45e1d-74fb-457d-b42f-319a02567c83@googlegroups.com>
References: <2e3a3c01-20b3-4948-9b32-bd80ed46822b@googlegroups.com>
 <552460cc$0$13002$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <N_gVw.164921$sZ5.11899@fx14.am4>
 <876196cm1e.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net> <xurVw.125673$7_1.63712@fx15.am4>
 <87k2xlzknu.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net> <8738498qf7.fsf@dpt-info.u-strasbg.fr>
 <87fv89zd0m.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net> <87y4m1795n.fsf@dpt-info.u-strasbg.fr>
 <mailman.165.1428585562.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <874mopzarw.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <87twwp76aj.fsf@dpt-info.u-strasbg.fr>
 <mailman.166.1428588517.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <87b45e1d-74fb-457d-b42f-319a02567c83@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <CALwzid=R2si08Ta0wk40m0tQX-z3py6sORbdNgsWnNKegbX4RQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Apr 9, 2015 at 8:54 AM,  <jonas.thornvall at gmail.com> wrote:
> Aside from the base changer i've written a bignumb anybase generic multiplication, addition and subtraction routine. My goal is to make the arithmetic in the base of choice whatever size.
>
> And i think i can do it, i already have mult, add , subt working in anybase but not bignumb.
>
> Does this mult work for arbitrary size?
> Or will it but out at some point?

Dunno, I have no interest in verifying your code for you. Especially
since this is a Python list and said code is not Python.

If you want to build confidence that your code works, I suggest
writing some unit tests for it. (I'd also suggest keeping it separate
from your html in a .js file, which would make it a lot easier to test
and reuse.)


From steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info  Thu Apr  9 11:05:02 2015
From: steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 2015 01:05:02 +1000
Subject: Exception Handling
References: <b6461fc8-a18b-4d61-86f9-65370b0a149d@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <5526951f$0$12988$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

On Thu, 9 Apr 2015 07:31 pm, Palpandi wrote:

> Hi all,
> 
> Is there any way to roll back or undo changes which are all done before
> exception occurs.

Not automatically. You have to program it yourself.



-- 
Steven



From steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info  Thu Apr  9 11:11:58 2015
From: steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 2015 01:11:58 +1000
Subject: Best search algorithm to find condition within a range
References: <2e3a3c01-20b3-4948-9b32-bd80ed46822b@googlegroups.com>
 <552460cc$0$13002$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <N_gVw.164921$sZ5.11899@fx14.am4> <876196cm1e.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <xurVw.125673$7_1.63712@fx15.am4> <87k2xlzknu.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <8738498qf7.fsf@dpt-info.u-strasbg.fr> <87fv89zd0m.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <87y4m1795n.fsf@dpt-info.u-strasbg.fr>
 <mailman.165.1428585562.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <874mopzarw.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
Message-ID: <552696be$0$13012$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

On Thu, 9 Apr 2015 11:33 pm, Marko Rauhamaa wrote:

> In this day and age, heavily optimized compilers (including gcc)
> actively exploit undefined behavior in code generation.

Optimization and undefined behaviour reminds me of a story my wife told me,
of a time she was crossing the US with some roadies. As they were driving
across the desert highway, one of the roadies noticed that they were
driving in the wrong direction for their next gig.

"Who cares?" said the driver, "we're making fantastic time!"


-- 
Steven



From jonas.thornvall at gmail.com  Thu Apr  9 11:12:31 2015
From: jonas.thornvall at gmail.com (jonas.thornvall at gmail.com)
Date: Thu, 9 Apr 2015 08:12:31 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Best search algorithm to find condition within a range
In-Reply-To: <mailman.167.1428591732.12925.python-list@python.org>
References: <2e3a3c01-20b3-4948-9b32-bd80ed46822b@googlegroups.com>
 <552460cc$0$13002$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <N_gVw.164921$sZ5.11899@fx14.am4>
 <876196cm1e.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net> <xurVw.125673$7_1.63712@fx15.am4>
 <87k2xlzknu.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net> <8738498qf7.fsf@dpt-info.u-strasbg.fr>
 <87fv89zd0m.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net> <87y4m1795n.fsf@dpt-info.u-strasbg.fr>
 <mailman.165.1428585562.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <874mopzarw.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <87twwp76aj.fsf@dpt-info.u-strasbg.fr>
 <mailman.166.1428588517.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <87pp7d73q8.fsf@dpt-info.u-strasbg.fr>
 <mailman.167.1428591732.12925.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <21b98f6a-cde0-4ca7-918d-ea8f13833fff@googlegroups.com>

Den torsdag 9 april 2015 kl. 17:02:24 UTC+2 skrev Chris Angelico:
> On Fri, Apr 10, 2015 at 12:53 AM, Alain Ketterlin
> <alain at dpt-info.u-strasbg.fr> wrote:
> > Ouch, you're right, I tried to stick with Marko's example and forgot the
> > basics. I meant "signed ints", but the "removable" condition should be
> > something like:
> >
> >     if ( x>0 && y>0 && z<x )
> >         ...
> >
> > i.e., some condition that is never true (either false or undefined).
> > Thanks for the correction.
> 
> Ah, yep. And yes, that's absolutely right - the compiler's allowed to
> treat that as never true.
> 
> ChrisA

I guess when working on highlevel arithmetic one does not need to think about such trivial? things, the expression is broken down into pairs fed into the functions and the parser handle the signs?


From jonas.thornvall at gmail.com  Thu Apr  9 11:21:31 2015
From: jonas.thornvall at gmail.com (jonas.thornvall at gmail.com)
Date: Thu, 9 Apr 2015 08:21:31 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Best search algorithm to find condition within a range
In-Reply-To: <mailman.168.1428591882.12925.python-list@python.org>
References: <2e3a3c01-20b3-4948-9b32-bd80ed46822b@googlegroups.com>
 <552460cc$0$13002$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <N_gVw.164921$sZ5.11899@fx14.am4>
 <876196cm1e.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net> <xurVw.125673$7_1.63712@fx15.am4>
 <87k2xlzknu.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net> <8738498qf7.fsf@dpt-info.u-strasbg.fr>
 <87fv89zd0m.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net> <87y4m1795n.fsf@dpt-info.u-strasbg.fr>
 <mailman.165.1428585562.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <874mopzarw.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <87twwp76aj.fsf@dpt-info.u-strasbg.fr>
 <mailman.166.1428588517.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <87b45e1d-74fb-457d-b42f-319a02567c83@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.168.1428591882.12925.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <8ff3e7fb-69e6-4344-8662-6f0048a45651@googlegroups.com>

Den torsdag 9 april 2015 kl. 17:04:53 UTC+2 skrev Ian:
> On Thu, Apr 9, 2015 at 8:54 AM,  <jonas.thornvall at gmail.com> wrote:
> > Aside from the base changer i've written a bignumb anybase generic multiplication, addition and subtraction routine. My goal is to make the arithmetic in the base of choice whatever size.
> >
> > And i think i can do it, i already have mult, add , subt working in anybase but not bignumb.
> >
> > Does this mult work for arbitrary size?
> > Or will it but out at some point?
> 
> Dunno, I have no interest in verifying your code for you. Especially
> since this is a Python list and said code is not Python.
> 
> If you want to build confidence that your code works, I suggest
> writing some unit tests for it. (I'd also suggest keeping it separate
> from your html in a .js file, which would make it a lot easier to test
> and reuse.)

Well with the condition i can get the bignumb arithmetic fully working, i am on my way of working bignumb arithmetic in anybase. 

I think this will be the first implementation ever to use arithmetic in the base of your choice. 

And i know for a fact (i've factored RSA in the 200 digit range on a 486 in a couple of hours 98-) 

So there is more to this than fancy overlay, it is about the digit representation at the binary level, and how the binary groups interpretated.

So in the end, even with none optimised type like Javascript integer it will save operations at high level as well as lowlevel.

That said highlevel and highbase arithmetic will work alot faster than binary.
And using modular arithmetic you may find out that some operations requiering exponential work like factoring will turn out to be done in polynomial time.

<SCRIPT LANGUAGE="Javascript">
/* MULTIPLY TWO VARIABLES */

//CONVERT A DECIMAL NUMBER INTO ANYBASE
function newbase(decNumber,base){
var out =[];
digits=1;
digmult=1;
while(digmult*base<=decNumber){
        digmult=digmult*base
        digits++;
}
digsave=digmult;
while(decNumber>0 || digits>0){
        loop=1;
        digit=0;
               for (digit=0;digit<=base;digit++) {
        if((digit+1)*digmult>decNumber)break;
               }
        out[digits]=digit;
        digmult=digmult*digit;
        decNumber=decNumber-digmult;
        digsave=digsave/base;
        digmult=digsave;
        digits--;
        }

return out;

}

function naiveMult(base, multOne, multTwo)
{  
   var total = [];
   var addResult = [];
   total[0] = 0;

   //Check which array bigger minimize multiplications
   if (multOne.length>multTwo.length){ mshort=multOne.length; mlong=multTwo.length;}
       else { mshort=multOne.length; mlong=multTwo.length;}

   for (var i = 0; i < mshort; i ++ )
   {
      multresult = [];
      remainder = 0;
      tempVal = 0;
      tempDig = 0;
      j = 0;

      if(i > 0)
      {
         for(zero = 0; zero < i; zero ++ ) multresult[zero] = 0;
      }

      while(j < mlong)
      {
         intMult++;
           
         tempVal = (multOne[i] * multTwo[j]) + remainder;
         remainder = 0;

         if (tempVal >= base)
         {
            tempDig = tempVal % base;
            remainder = (tempVal - tempDig) / base;
            multresult[j + i] = tempDig;
         }
         else
         {
            multresult[j + i] = tempVal;
         }
         j ++ ;
      }

      if(remainder != 0)
      {
         multresult[j + i] = remainder;
      }
      addResult=naiveAdd(base, total, multresult);
      total=addResult;
   }
   return total;
}

/* ADD TWO VARIABLES */

function naiveAdd(base, arrOne, arrTwo)
{
   
   shortArr=[];
   longArr=[];
   addResult = [];
   remainder = 0;
   //Find shortest and longest array
   if (arrOne.length >= arrTwo.length) {shortArr = arrTwo; longArr = arrOne;}
            else  {shortArr = arrOne;longArr = arrTwo;}
   for (i = 0; i < shortArr.length; i ++ )
   {
      intAdd ++ ;
      arrOne[i] = parseInt(arrOne[i]);
      arrTwo[i] = parseInt(arrTwo[i]);
      if (isNaN(arrOne[i])) arrOne[i] = 0;
      if (isNaN(arrTwo[i])) arrTwo[i] = 0;
      addResult[i] = arrOne[i] + arrTwo[i] + remainder;
     
      if (addResult[i] >= base)
      {
         addResult[i] = addResult[i] - base;
         remainder = 1;
      }
      else
      {
         remainder = 0;
      }
   }
   //Copying values from the shorter string
   while(i<longArr.length) {longArr[i]=parseInt(longArr[i]);addResult[i]=longArr[i]+remainder; remainder=0; i++;}
   //If strings of equal lenght but there is a remainder;
   if (remainder == 1) addResult[i++] = 1;
   else addResult.splice(i, 1);
   return addResult;
}

/* MAIN */
function fetchValues()
{
intMult=0;
intAdd=0;
base=10;
x=1;
y=1;
document.calc.result.value="";
document.calc.stats.value="";
document.calc.outbase.value="";
strEval = document.calc.eval.value;
genArr = strEval.split("*");
//fONE=newbase(genArr[0],base);
//document.write(fONE[2]);
//document.calc.outbase.value +=fONE+" + \n";
//fTWO=newbase(genArr[1],base);
//document.calc.outbase.value +=fTWO+"\n";

arrOne=genArr[0].split("").reverse();
arrTwo=genArr[1].split("").reverse();
base = document.calc.formbase.value;
out=naiveMult(base,arrOne,arrTwo);
document.calc.stats.value +="Multiplications = "+intMult+"\n";
document.calc.result.value +=" Product = " + out.reverse()+"\n";
}
</SCRIPT>
<!DOCTYPE html>
<html lang="en">
<head><meta charset="utf-8"/></head>
<body bgcolor="gold" onload="fetchValues()">
<H1>Big numbers</H1><P>
<FORM name=calc onSubmit="fetchValues(); return false;">
<B>INPUT DEC-><input type=submit name="calc" value="Calc"> <input type="text" name="eval" value="32432439*12" size="300"><br>
BASE <input type="text" name="formbase" value="10" size="10"><br>
This calculation<input type="text" name="outbase" value="" size="60"><br>
<FONT COLOR="white">
RESULT<br>
<textarea name="result" rows="20" cols="120"></textarea><br>
STATUS</B><br>
<textarea name="stats" cols="120" rows="40" value=""></textarea>
</FORM>
</body>
</html>


From steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info  Thu Apr  9 11:21:46 2015
From: steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 2015 01:21:46 +1000
Subject: Best search algorithm to find condition within a range
References: <2e3a3c01-20b3-4948-9b32-bd80ed46822b@googlegroups.com>
 <552460cc$0$13002$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <N_gVw.164921$sZ5.11899@fx14.am4> <876196cm1e.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <xurVw.125673$7_1.63712@fx15.am4> <87k2xlzknu.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <8738498qf7.fsf@dpt-info.u-strasbg.fr> <87fv89zd0m.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <87y4m1795n.fsf@dpt-info.u-strasbg.fr>
 <mailman.165.1428585562.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <874mopzarw.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net> <87twwp76aj.fsf@dpt-info.u-strasbg.fr>
 <mailman.166.1428588517.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <87pp7d73q8.fsf@dpt-info.u-strasbg.fr>
 <mailman.167.1428591732.12925.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <5526990a$0$12986$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

On Fri, 10 Apr 2015 01:02 am, Chris Angelico wrote:

> On Fri, Apr 10, 2015 at 12:53 AM, Alain Ketterlin
> <alain at dpt-info.u-strasbg.fr> wrote:
>> Ouch, you're right, I tried to stick with Marko's example and forgot the
>> basics. I meant "signed ints", but the "removable" condition should be
>> something like:
>>
>>     if ( x>0 && y>0 && z<x )
>>         ...
>>
>> i.e., some condition that is never true (either false or undefined).
>> Thanks for the correction.
> 
> Ah, yep. And yes, that's absolutely right - the compiler's allowed to
> treat that as never true.

Am I missing something? Did you over-trim the quoting?

How can the compiler possibly be allowed to treat x>0 && y>0 && z<x as
always false?

x = y = 1
z = 0

gives x>0 && y>0 && z<x as true.



-- 
Steven



From rosuav at gmail.com  Thu Apr  9 11:34:17 2015
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 2015 01:34:17 +1000
Subject: Best search algorithm to find condition within a range
In-Reply-To: <552696be$0$13012$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
References: <2e3a3c01-20b3-4948-9b32-bd80ed46822b@googlegroups.com>
 <552460cc$0$13002$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <N_gVw.164921$sZ5.11899@fx14.am4>
 <876196cm1e.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <xurVw.125673$7_1.63712@fx15.am4>
 <87k2xlzknu.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <8738498qf7.fsf@dpt-info.u-strasbg.fr>
 <87fv89zd0m.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <87y4m1795n.fsf@dpt-info.u-strasbg.fr>
 <mailman.165.1428585562.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <874mopzarw.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <552696be$0$13012$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmqWrBR41_+57HE17o7qszJvP0dOG4r8VZPwTS1XRm1sQA@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Apr 10, 2015 at 1:11 AM, Steven D'Aprano
<steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info> wrote:
> On Thu, 9 Apr 2015 11:33 pm, Marko Rauhamaa wrote:
>
>> In this day and age, heavily optimized compilers (including gcc)
>> actively exploit undefined behavior in code generation.
>
> Optimization and undefined behaviour reminds me of a story my wife told me,
> of a time she was crossing the US with some roadies. As they were driving
> across the desert highway, one of the roadies noticed that they were
> driving in the wrong direction for their next gig.
>
> "Who cares?" said the driver, "we're making fantastic time!"

It's not really like that. Imagine you're loading up the stuff on the
back of your truck. Do you have to research the narrowest tunnel
you'll ever have to go through? Nah. You just make sure it's no wider
than the legal limit, because any tunnel that's narrower than that
isn't your problem. If you ever _do_ meet an overly-narrow tunnel,
you'll run into problems, because you assumed that such a thing wasn't
possible.

The C compiler is generally going to assume a whole slew of principles
that aren't technically guaranteed. For instance, it'll probably
assume that CPU registers will accurately retain what they were set
to, and likewise memory (unless it's marked 'volatile'). Put your code
out in space, and that might no longer be true, but you can't expect
the compiler to cope with that. As far as it's concerned, it's
impossible for a CPU register to arbitrarily change without notice.
It's equally impossible for the addition of two positive signed
integers to result in a negative integer.

ChrisA


From rosuav at gmail.com  Thu Apr  9 11:36:01 2015
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 2015 01:36:01 +1000
Subject: Best search algorithm to find condition within a range
In-Reply-To: <5526990a$0$12986$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
References: <2e3a3c01-20b3-4948-9b32-bd80ed46822b@googlegroups.com>
 <552460cc$0$13002$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <N_gVw.164921$sZ5.11899@fx14.am4>
 <876196cm1e.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <xurVw.125673$7_1.63712@fx15.am4>
 <87k2xlzknu.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <8738498qf7.fsf@dpt-info.u-strasbg.fr>
 <87fv89zd0m.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <87y4m1795n.fsf@dpt-info.u-strasbg.fr>
 <mailman.165.1428585562.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <874mopzarw.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <87twwp76aj.fsf@dpt-info.u-strasbg.fr>
 <mailman.166.1428588517.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <87pp7d73q8.fsf@dpt-info.u-strasbg.fr>
 <mailman.167.1428591732.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <5526990a$0$12986$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmreATNufo4Ko+GBQhVH1TsdtnzviNEezujcrEyrAtnzSA@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Apr 10, 2015 at 1:21 AM, Steven D'Aprano
<steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info> wrote:
> On Fri, 10 Apr 2015 01:02 am, Chris Angelico wrote:
>
>> On Fri, Apr 10, 2015 at 12:53 AM, Alain Ketterlin
>> <alain at dpt-info.u-strasbg.fr> wrote:
>>> Ouch, you're right, I tried to stick with Marko's example and forgot the
>>> basics. I meant "signed ints", but the "removable" condition should be
>>> something like:
>>>
>>>     if ( x>0 && y>0 && z<x )
>>>         ...
>>>
>>> i.e., some condition that is never true (either false or undefined).
>>> Thanks for the correction.
>>
>> Ah, yep. And yes, that's absolutely right - the compiler's allowed to
>> treat that as never true.
>
> Am I missing something? Did you over-trim the quoting?

Yes, because the significant line was about three levels of quote
back, so I didn't bother to go retrieve it. Immediately before the if:

z = x + y;

ChrisA


From travisgriggs at gmail.com  Thu Apr  9 12:09:29 2015
From: travisgriggs at gmail.com (Travis Griggs)
Date: Thu, 9 Apr 2015 09:09:29 -0700
Subject: MicroPython 1.4.1 released
In-Reply-To: <CANw+MznxzdSLK_86P5XbFn5x+_gBKueSVn5hvYxKvQ_rqn6xcw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CANw+MznxzdSLK_86P5XbFn5x+_gBKueSVn5hvYxKvQ_rqn6xcw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <E7267188-EA1F-4E86-A485-5A4A25B9EC67@gmail.com>


> On Apr 4, 2015, at 4:43 PM, Damien George <damien.p.george at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Hello everyone,
> 
> We are pleased to announce the release of MicroPython version 1.4.1!
> 
> MicroPython is an implementation of Python 3.4 which is optimised for
> systems with minimal resources, including microcontrollers.
> 
> Since our last announcement, this release is both more "micro" and
> more "Python".
> 
> Code size of the bare Thumb2 architecture version has dropped to under
> 71k (without reduction of features), the RAM usage has been further
> optimised, and support for 16-bit microcontrollers has been proven via
> the port to a PIC microcontroller with just 8k RAM.
> 
> On the Python side of things, there is now a "stackless" mode with
> both strict and non-strict behaviour.  Strict will always use the heap
> to allocate a call frame, where non-strict will fall back to the C
> stack if the heap is exhausted.  More special methods have been
> implemented, along with proper descriptors, OrderedDict class, basic
> frozen module support and the ability to override builtins, among
> other things.
> 
> The test suite has grown and coverage of the code is now beyond 91%.
> 
> Many other features have been implemented for the ports to various
> microcontroller platforms, bugs have been fixed and the docs have been
> improved.  A full change log is available at
> https://micropython.org/resources/micropython-ChangeLog.txt .
> 
> For more information about the project please visit
> http://micropython.org/
> https://github.com/micropython/micropython

This is cool. I?m glad you guys are doing this and glad you are seeing some promise and success. I?ve enjoyed reading your updates, especially the technical ones. I wish you?d do one on whatever you?re doing for memory management in your particular python variant. GC in a tightly constrained environment is interesting.



From travisgriggs at gmail.com  Thu Apr  9 12:14:59 2015
From: travisgriggs at gmail.com (Travis Griggs)
Date: Thu, 9 Apr 2015 09:14:59 -0700
Subject: [SerialConnection] Help
In-Reply-To: <CAABAm7x4nuNwQ+31TR7qOFS=BhOjPV-weO=wzD1RoBcxVEj-Qg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAABAm7x4nuNwQ+31TR7qOFS=BhOjPV-weO=wzD1RoBcxVEj-Qg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <760AEB56-D16F-4E52-AE47-BCA8C8A55668@gmail.com>


> On Apr 7, 2015, at 8:42 AM, Hugo Caldas <hcaldas92 at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
>  read and write the port values with multi threading 

Care to elaborate what you mean by this part? In general, serial ports and multi threading don?t mix well. IOW, you?ll need to use multithreading pieces to make sure you serialize your access to your serial port.

As other have pointed out, pyserial is the package you want. Documentation is pretty good. We use it a lot. 
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/attachments/20150409/66c43fe4/attachment.html>

From steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info  Thu Apr  9 12:15:21 2015
From: steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 2015 02:15:21 +1000
Subject: Best search algorithm to find condition within a range
References: <2e3a3c01-20b3-4948-9b32-bd80ed46822b@googlegroups.com>
 <552460cc$0$13002$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <N_gVw.164921$sZ5.11899@fx14.am4> <876196cm1e.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <xurVw.125673$7_1.63712@fx15.am4> <87k2xlzknu.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <8738498qf7.fsf@dpt-info.u-strasbg.fr> <87fv89zd0m.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <87y4m1795n.fsf@dpt-info.u-strasbg.fr>
 <mailman.165.1428585562.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <874mopzarw.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <552696be$0$13012$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <mailman.169.1428593659.12925.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <5526a59a$0$12999$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

On Fri, 10 Apr 2015 01:34 am, Chris Angelico wrote:

> It's equally impossible for the addition of two positive signed
> integers to result in a negative integer.

Why oh why do C programmers tell such porkies??? *semi-wink*

[steve at ando c]$ gcc add.c
[steve at ando c]$ ./a.out
a = 1
b = 2147483647
a+b = -2147483648


Looks like a negative integer to me, but then, given that its undefined
behaviour, perhaps the compiler flipped some pixels on the screen so it
merely *looks* negative.


Here's the source code:

[steve at ando c]$ cat add.c
#include <stdio.h>
#include <stdlib.h>

int main(int argc, char *argv[])
{
  int a;
  a = 1;
  int b;
  b = 2147483647;
  printf("a = %d\n", a);
  printf("b = %d\n", b);
  printf("a+b = %d\n", a+b);
  return 0;
}



-- 
Steven



From ian.g.kelly at gmail.com  Thu Apr  9 12:23:09 2015
From: ian.g.kelly at gmail.com (Ian Kelly)
Date: Thu, 9 Apr 2015 10:23:09 -0600
Subject: Best search algorithm to find condition within a range
In-Reply-To: <8ff3e7fb-69e6-4344-8662-6f0048a45651@googlegroups.com>
References: <2e3a3c01-20b3-4948-9b32-bd80ed46822b@googlegroups.com>
 <552460cc$0$13002$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <N_gVw.164921$sZ5.11899@fx14.am4>
 <876196cm1e.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net> <xurVw.125673$7_1.63712@fx15.am4>
 <87k2xlzknu.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net> <8738498qf7.fsf@dpt-info.u-strasbg.fr>
 <87fv89zd0m.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net> <87y4m1795n.fsf@dpt-info.u-strasbg.fr>
 <mailman.165.1428585562.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <874mopzarw.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <87twwp76aj.fsf@dpt-info.u-strasbg.fr>
 <mailman.166.1428588517.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <87b45e1d-74fb-457d-b42f-319a02567c83@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.168.1428591882.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <8ff3e7fb-69e6-4344-8662-6f0048a45651@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <CALwzid=astWM41aorpp9OE6zfoOxGuRFEujLuwiwchA0HD2NWw@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Apr 9, 2015 at 9:21 AM,  <jonas.thornvall at gmail.com> wrote:
> And i know for a fact

What do you know for a fact?

> (i've factored RSA in the 200 digit range on a 486 in a couple of hours 98-)

Bullshit. RSA-200 wasn't factored until 2005, and the group that did
it required three months on a cluster of 80 2.2-GHz Opterons.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RSA_numbers#RSA-200

If you're going to spout lies in order to try to create credentials
for yourself that we don't care about anyway, at least try to keep it
in the realm of believability.


From marko at pacujo.net  Thu Apr  9 12:25:12 2015
From: marko at pacujo.net (Marko Rauhamaa)
Date: Thu, 09 Apr 2015 19:25:12 +0300
Subject: Best search algorithm to find condition within a range
References: <2e3a3c01-20b3-4948-9b32-bd80ed46822b@googlegroups.com>
 <552460cc$0$13002$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <N_gVw.164921$sZ5.11899@fx14.am4> <876196cm1e.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <xurVw.125673$7_1.63712@fx15.am4> <87k2xlzknu.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <8738498qf7.fsf@dpt-info.u-strasbg.fr>
 <87fv89zd0m.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <87y4m1795n.fsf@dpt-info.u-strasbg.fr>
 <mailman.165.1428585562.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <874mopzarw.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <552696be$0$13012$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <mailman.169.1428593659.12925.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <87y4m1b76f.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>

Chris Angelico <rosuav at gmail.com>:

> As far as it's concerned, it's impossible for a CPU register to
> arbitrarily change without notice. It's equally impossible for the
> addition of two positive signed integers to result in a negative
> integer.

The standard says that any program that takes a signed integer out of
its valid range is broken and deserves anything that happens to it.

I say it's the standard that is broken.


Marko


From invalid at invalid.invalid  Thu Apr  9 12:28:26 2015
From: invalid at invalid.invalid (Grant Edwards)
Date: Thu, 9 Apr 2015 16:28:26 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [SerialConnection] Help
References: <CAABAm7x4nuNwQ+31TR7qOFS=BhOjPV-weO=wzD1RoBcxVEj-Qg@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.172.1428596110.12925.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <mg69ba$rsa$1@reader1.panix.com>

On 2015-04-09, Travis Griggs <travisgriggs at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On Apr 7, 2015, at 8:42 AM, Hugo Caldas <hcaldas92 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> 
>>  read and write the port values with multi threading 
>
> Care to elaborate what you mean by this part? In general, serial
> ports and multi threading don?t mix well. IOW, you?ll need to use
> multithreading pieces to make sure you serialize your access to your
> serial port.

One thing that does work well (and is used by lots of apps) is to use
one thread for reading and a different thread for writing.  If that's
what you want to do, then you don't need to add any mutexes or any
sort of application-level serialization.

At least on Unix, the basic read/write calls should be thread-safe,
_but_not_necessarily_atomic_.

If two threads call write() "at the same time", all the data will go
out, and the order of bytes within each written block will be
preserved, but there's no guarantee that the blocks won't get
interleaved.

If you've got two threads blocking on a read, only one thread will
read any particular byte of data, but there's no guarantee which bytes
will go to which thread.

> As other have pointed out, pyserial is the package you want.
> Documentation is pretty good. We use it a lot. 

-- 
Grant Edwards               grant.b.edwards        Yow! Don't hit me!!  I'm in
                                  at               the Twilight Zone!!!
                              gmail.com            


From rosuav at gmail.com  Thu Apr  9 12:36:36 2015
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 2015 02:36:36 +1000
Subject: Best search algorithm to find condition within a range
In-Reply-To: <5526a59a$0$12999$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
References: <2e3a3c01-20b3-4948-9b32-bd80ed46822b@googlegroups.com>
 <552460cc$0$13002$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <N_gVw.164921$sZ5.11899@fx14.am4>
 <876196cm1e.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <xurVw.125673$7_1.63712@fx15.am4>
 <87k2xlzknu.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <8738498qf7.fsf@dpt-info.u-strasbg.fr>
 <87fv89zd0m.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <87y4m1795n.fsf@dpt-info.u-strasbg.fr>
 <mailman.165.1428585562.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <874mopzarw.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <552696be$0$13012$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <mailman.169.1428593659.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <5526a59a$0$12999$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmqcm3UapyYETm0ryxoYx6Sw=2XEY2dmsjGrOT=+C-3Khw@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Apr 10, 2015 at 2:15 AM, Steven D'Aprano
<steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info> wrote:
> On Fri, 10 Apr 2015 01:34 am, Chris Angelico wrote:
>
>> It's equally impossible for the addition of two positive signed
>> integers to result in a negative integer.
>
> Why oh why do C programmers tell such porkies??? *semi-wink*
>
> [steve at ando c]$ gcc add.c
> [steve at ando c]$ ./a.out
> a = 1
> b = 2147483647
> a+b = -2147483648
>
>
> Looks like a negative integer to me, but then, given that its undefined
> behaviour, perhaps the compiler flipped some pixels on the screen so it
> merely *looks* negative.

Precisely. Another compiler, or another CPU architecture, is welcome
to behave differently. *According to the C standard*, you just did
something impossible, so it's equally valid for the output to be 5, 3,
7, or 25, all of which would probably be produced by Princess Ida's
compiler. (Mind you, her compiler might do that when asked to add 2
and 2, so I'm not sure it's all that helpful a comparison. [1])

> Here's the source code:
>
> [steve at ando c]$ cat add.c
>   a = 1;
>   b = 2147483647;
>   printf("a+b = %d\n", a+b);

The first undefined part here is that this operation might not even
overflow. If the compiler uses a 64-bit int, this will simply produce
2147483648. But even assuming that it can't represent that total in a
signed int, there's nothing in the spec that says it has to become
negative.

ChrisA

[1] http://diamond.boisestate.edu/gas/princess_ida/webop/pi_10d.html


From python at mrabarnett.plus.com  Thu Apr  9 12:40:37 2015
From: python at mrabarnett.plus.com (MRAB)
Date: Thu, 09 Apr 2015 17:40:37 +0100
Subject: Best search algorithm to find condition within a range
In-Reply-To: <5526990a$0$12986$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
References: <2e3a3c01-20b3-4948-9b32-bd80ed46822b@googlegroups.com>
 <552460cc$0$13002$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <N_gVw.164921$sZ5.11899@fx14.am4> <876196cm1e.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <xurVw.125673$7_1.63712@fx15.am4> <87k2xlzknu.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <8738498qf7.fsf@dpt-info.u-strasbg.fr> <87fv89zd0m.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <87y4m1795n.fsf@dpt-info.u-strasbg.fr>
 <mailman.165.1428585562.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <874mopzarw.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net> <87twwp76aj.fsf@dpt-info.u-strasbg.fr>
 <mailman.166.1428588517.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <87pp7d73q8.fsf@dpt-info.u-strasbg.fr>
 <mailman.167.1428591732.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <5526990a$0$12986$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <5526AB85.4000705@mrabarnett.plus.com>

On 2015-04-09 16:21, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> On Fri, 10 Apr 2015 01:02 am, Chris Angelico wrote:
>
>> On Fri, Apr 10, 2015 at 12:53 AM, Alain Ketterlin
>> <alain at dpt-info.u-strasbg.fr> wrote:
>>> Ouch, you're right, I tried to stick with Marko's example and forgot the
>>> basics. I meant "signed ints", but the "removable" condition should be
>>> something like:
>>>
>>>     if ( x>0 && y>0 && z<x )
>>>         ...
>>>
>>> i.e., some condition that is never true (either false or undefined).
>>> Thanks for the correction.
>>
>> Ah, yep. And yes, that's absolutely right - the compiler's allowed to
>> treat that as never true.
>
> Am I missing something? Did you over-trim the quoting?
>
> How can the compiler possibly be allowed to treat x>0 && y>0 && z<x as
> always false?
>
> x = y = 1
> z = 0
>
> gives x>0 && y>0 && z<x as true.
>
Earlier in the thread there was the line:

     z = x+y; // all signed ints



From rosuav at gmail.com  Thu Apr  9 12:43:12 2015
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 2015 02:43:12 +1000
Subject: Best search algorithm to find condition within a range
In-Reply-To: <87y4m1b76f.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
References: <2e3a3c01-20b3-4948-9b32-bd80ed46822b@googlegroups.com>
 <552460cc$0$13002$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <N_gVw.164921$sZ5.11899@fx14.am4>
 <876196cm1e.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <xurVw.125673$7_1.63712@fx15.am4>
 <87k2xlzknu.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <8738498qf7.fsf@dpt-info.u-strasbg.fr>
 <87fv89zd0m.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <87y4m1795n.fsf@dpt-info.u-strasbg.fr>
 <mailman.165.1428585562.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <874mopzarw.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <552696be$0$13012$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <mailman.169.1428593659.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <87y4m1b76f.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmq2tbsCdt4TzQ2DDmoiAdkj_cAWJOajvprA-adjUP194w@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Apr 10, 2015 at 2:25 AM, Marko Rauhamaa <marko at pacujo.net> wrote:
> Chris Angelico <rosuav at gmail.com>:
>
>> As far as it's concerned, it's impossible for a CPU register to
>> arbitrarily change without notice. It's equally impossible for the
>> addition of two positive signed integers to result in a negative
>> integer.
>
> The standard says that any program that takes a signed integer out of
> its valid range is broken and deserves anything that happens to it.
>
> I say it's the standard that is broken.

For application work, it's usually much better to have an integer type
like Python's or Pike's int - a signed integer that can never
overflow. For low-level bit manipulation work, you usually want an
*unsigned* integer of specific size, with well defined wrap-around
behaviour. When do you actually want a signed integer with
well-defined overflow behaviour?

ChrisA


From invalid at invalid.invalid  Thu Apr  9 12:53:04 2015
From: invalid at invalid.invalid (Grant Edwards)
Date: Thu, 9 Apr 2015 16:53:04 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Best search algorithm to find condition within a range
References: <2e3a3c01-20b3-4948-9b32-bd80ed46822b@googlegroups.com>
 <552460cc$0$13002$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <N_gVw.164921$sZ5.11899@fx14.am4> <876196cm1e.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <xurVw.125673$7_1.63712@fx15.am4> <87k2xlzknu.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <8738498qf7.fsf@dpt-info.u-strasbg.fr> <87fv89zd0m.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <87y4m1795n.fsf@dpt-info.u-strasbg.fr>
 <mailman.165.1428585562.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <874mopzarw.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <552696be$0$13012$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <mailman.169.1428593659.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <87y4m1b76f.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <mailman.176.1428597801.12925.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <mg6apg$ojq$1@reader1.panix.com>

On 2015-04-09, Chris Angelico <rosuav at gmail.com> wrote:

> For application work, it's usually much better to have an integer
> type like Python's or Pike's int - a signed integer that can never
> overflow. For low-level bit manipulation work, you usually want an
> *unsigned* integer of specific size, with well defined wrap-around
> behaviour. When do you actually want a signed integer with
> well-defined overflow behaviour?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Binary_scaling#Binary_angles

-- 
Grant Edwards               grant.b.edwards        Yow! HELLO KITTY gang
                                  at               terrorizes town, family
                              gmail.com            STICKERED to death!


From rosuav at gmail.com  Thu Apr  9 13:00:49 2015
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 2015 03:00:49 +1000
Subject: Best search algorithm to find condition within a range
In-Reply-To: <mg6apg$ojq$1@reader1.panix.com>
References: <2e3a3c01-20b3-4948-9b32-bd80ed46822b@googlegroups.com>
 <552460cc$0$13002$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <N_gVw.164921$sZ5.11899@fx14.am4>
 <876196cm1e.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <xurVw.125673$7_1.63712@fx15.am4>
 <87k2xlzknu.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <8738498qf7.fsf@dpt-info.u-strasbg.fr>
 <87fv89zd0m.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <87y4m1795n.fsf@dpt-info.u-strasbg.fr>
 <mailman.165.1428585562.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <874mopzarw.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <552696be$0$13012$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <mailman.169.1428593659.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <87y4m1b76f.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <mailman.176.1428597801.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <mg6apg$ojq$1@reader1.panix.com>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmo0zZA_hovSKyaQPnRWwccSFYjqx2sacB8im8c59vw5Bg@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Apr 10, 2015 at 2:53 AM, Grant Edwards <invalid at invalid.invalid> wrote:
> On 2015-04-09, Chris Angelico <rosuav at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> For application work, it's usually much better to have an integer
>> type like Python's or Pike's int - a signed integer that can never
>> overflow. For low-level bit manipulation work, you usually want an
>> *unsigned* integer of specific size, with well defined wrap-around
>> behaviour. When do you actually want a signed integer with
>> well-defined overflow behaviour?
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Binary_scaling#Binary_angles

Huh, interesting. (Trust the list to have an answer to a rhetorical
question, though to be honest, I should have expected that there'd be
some.) A cursory glance at that Wikipedia page suggests that unsigned
wrap-around can be used just as effectively, though, so I'm not sure
this is at all an argument for standardizing the behaviour of signed
wrap-around.

ChrisA


From steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info  Thu Apr  9 13:35:34 2015
From: steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 2015 03:35:34 +1000
Subject: Best search algorithm to find condition within a range
References: <2e3a3c01-20b3-4948-9b32-bd80ed46822b@googlegroups.com>
 <552460cc$0$13002$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <N_gVw.164921$sZ5.11899@fx14.am4> <876196cm1e.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <xurVw.125673$7_1.63712@fx15.am4> <87k2xlzknu.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <8738498qf7.fsf@dpt-info.u-strasbg.fr> <87fv89zd0m.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <87y4m1795n.fsf@dpt-info.u-strasbg.fr>
 <mailman.165.1428585562.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <874mopzarw.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <552696be$0$13012$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <mailman.169.1428593659.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <87y4m1b76f.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
Message-ID: <5526b867$0$12985$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

On Fri, 10 Apr 2015 02:25 am, Marko Rauhamaa wrote:

> Chris Angelico <rosuav at gmail.com>:
> 
>> As far as it's concerned, it's impossible for a CPU register to
>> arbitrarily change without notice. It's equally impossible for the
>> addition of two positive signed integers to result in a negative
>> integer.
> 
> The standard says that any program that takes a signed integer out of
> its valid range is broken and deserves anything that happens to it.
> 
> I say it's the standard that is broken.

It's not so much the undefined behaviour part that gets me. That's bad
enough. But the concept that having the compiler ignore what you write in
the source code because you've accidentally hit some undefined part of the
spec *is a feature* rather than a horrible, horrible design flaw that blows
my mind.

http://blogs.msdn.com/b/oldnewthing/archive/2014/06/27/10537746.aspx

A *sane* language developer would insist that if the compiler is smart
enough to detect a bug, say a pointer which might be null but is
dereferenced regardless, it should *stop compiling and tell you*, not treat
it as an excuse to do something radically different from what the source
code says. Calculating the wrong result really quickly is not an
optimization except in the minds of crazy people, its a bug.

Code intended to sanitize untrusted code was turned into a no-op.
http://code.google.com/p/nativeclient/issues/detail?id=245

A check that a pointer wasn't null was removed by the compiler, creating an
exploitable vulnerability. https://isc.sans.edu/diary.html?storyid=6820

I've come to the conclusion that C is the PHP of low level languages. Like
PHP, it's popularity is at least in part due to its lack of consistency and
psychotic design. That, I think, is the secret of success for some
languages: you appeal to the cowboy coders by giving them something tricky
to use, but not too tricky, something which doesn't require the discipline
and intellectual rigour (and/or cleverness) of writing code which is
actually correct, so long as they can write code which is *almost* correct
and have it mostly work. What do a few buffer overflows, seg faults, and
incorrect results matter when the resulting code runs like a rocket?

C: calculating more wrong answers in less time than any other language!

Of course not all C programmers are cowboys. Linux Torvalds has a reputation
for a zero-tolerance attitude towards kernel bugs, and a take-no-prisoners
attitude to anyone who might break userspace code due to changes in the
kernel. But I think that the vast number of C/C++ exploitable bugs is proof
that most C coders lack either the skill or inclination to write correct C
code. Even the Linux kernel contains bugs. Things were bad enough in the
old days of classical C compilers, but modern C optimizing compilers may
actively counteract your code as you have written it. How that isn't
considered an outright malicious act, I don't know.



-- 
Steven



From steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info  Thu Apr  9 13:41:21 2015
From: steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 2015 03:41:21 +1000
Subject: Best search algorithm to find condition within a range
References: <2e3a3c01-20b3-4948-9b32-bd80ed46822b@googlegroups.com>
 <552460cc$0$13002$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <N_gVw.164921$sZ5.11899@fx14.am4> <876196cm1e.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <xurVw.125673$7_1.63712@fx15.am4> <87k2xlzknu.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <8738498qf7.fsf@dpt-info.u-strasbg.fr> <87fv89zd0m.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <87y4m1795n.fsf@dpt-info.u-strasbg.fr>
 <mailman.165.1428585562.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <874mopzarw.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <552696be$0$13012$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <mailman.169.1428593659.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <87y4m1b76f.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <mailman.176.1428597801.12925.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <5526b9c3$0$12997$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

On Fri, 10 Apr 2015 02:43 am, Chris Angelico wrote:

> For application work, it's usually much better to have an integer type
> like Python's or Pike's int - a signed integer that can never
> overflow. For low-level bit manipulation work, you usually want an
> unsigned integer of specific size, with well defined wrap-around
> behaviour. When do you actually want a signed integer with
> well-defined overflow behaviour?

I'm lead to believe that such a thing is useful in crypto, although I don't
quite see it myself.

There are good ways to deal with out-of-range results in systems languages:

- well-defined wrap-around behaviour;
- saturation;
- trapping.

"Do whatever the hell the compiler feels like doing" is not one of them.

More discussion here:

http://blog.regehr.org/archives/642


-- 
Steven



From marko at pacujo.net  Thu Apr  9 13:43:43 2015
From: marko at pacujo.net (Marko Rauhamaa)
Date: Thu, 09 Apr 2015 20:43:43 +0300
Subject: Best search algorithm to find condition within a range
References: <2e3a3c01-20b3-4948-9b32-bd80ed46822b@googlegroups.com>
 <552460cc$0$13002$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <N_gVw.164921$sZ5.11899@fx14.am4> <876196cm1e.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <xurVw.125673$7_1.63712@fx15.am4> <87k2xlzknu.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <8738498qf7.fsf@dpt-info.u-strasbg.fr>
 <87fv89zd0m.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <87y4m1795n.fsf@dpt-info.u-strasbg.fr>
 <mailman.165.1428585562.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <874mopzarw.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <552696be$0$13012$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <mailman.169.1428593659.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <87y4m1b76f.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <mailman.176.1428597801.12925.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <87sic9b3jk.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>

Chris Angelico <rosuav at gmail.com>:

> For low-level bit manipulation work, you usually want an *unsigned*
> integer of specific size, with well defined wrap-around behaviour.
> When do you actually want a signed integer with well-defined overflow
> behaviour?

Bit manipulation is not the issue here.

The reason for signed, wrapping integers is that you want to be able to
perform signed subtractions. Consider for example time differences that
are often expressed as signed second and/or nanosecond counts that are
at the brink of overflowing. You want to be able to perform usual
arithmetic operations even if the intermediate results overflow.

A classic analogy: the roots of a cubic equation can be figured out
explicitly with Cardano's method <URL:
http://www.math.vanderbilt.edu/~schectex/courses/cubic/>. The
algebraists were impressed with the solution, but to their
consternation, the formula involved taking the square root of a negative
number even when all three solutions were real.

Temporary integer overflows and excursions into the complex number space
should not be shunned unnecessarily.


Marko


From invalid at invalid.invalid  Thu Apr  9 13:44:28 2015
From: invalid at invalid.invalid (Grant Edwards)
Date: Thu, 9 Apr 2015 17:44:28 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Best search algorithm to find condition within a range
References: <2e3a3c01-20b3-4948-9b32-bd80ed46822b@googlegroups.com>
 <552460cc$0$13002$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <N_gVw.164921$sZ5.11899@fx14.am4> <876196cm1e.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <xurVw.125673$7_1.63712@fx15.am4> <87k2xlzknu.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <8738498qf7.fsf@dpt-info.u-strasbg.fr> <87fv89zd0m.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <87y4m1795n.fsf@dpt-info.u-strasbg.fr>
 <mailman.165.1428585562.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <874mopzarw.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <552696be$0$13012$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <mailman.169.1428593659.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <87y4m1b76f.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <mailman.176.1428597801.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <mg6apg$ojq$1@reader1.panix.com>
 <mailman.177.1428598852.12925.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <mg6dpr$9nj$1@reader1.panix.com>

On 2015-04-09, Chris Angelico <rosuav at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Fri, Apr 10, 2015 at 2:53 AM, Grant Edwards <invalid at invalid.invalid> wrote:
>> On 2015-04-09, Chris Angelico <rosuav at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> For application work, it's usually much better to have an integer
>>> type like Python's or Pike's int - a signed integer that can never
>>> overflow. For low-level bit manipulation work, you usually want an
>>> *unsigned* integer of specific size, with well defined wrap-around
>>> behaviour. When do you actually want a signed integer with
>>> well-defined overflow behaviour?
>>
>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Binary_scaling#Binary_angles
>
> Huh, interesting. (Trust the list to have an answer to a rhetorical
> question, though to be honest, I should have expected that there'd be
> some.) A cursory glance at that Wikipedia page suggests that unsigned
> wrap-around can be used just as effectively, though, so I'm not sure
> this is at all an argument for standardizing the behaviour of signed
> wrap-around.

Applications that use BAMs depend on the fact that you can treat them
as either signed or unsigned values and get correct results.

Relative headings are often treated as signed values with 0 meaning
"straight ahead" with deltas to the right/starboard as positive and
deltas to the left/port as negative. If I were to add three (or seven,
or eleven) -90 degree deltas to my heading of 0, I'd expect end up
with a relative heading of +90.  That depends on signed overflow
working correctly.

Absolute headings (e.g. relative to North), are often treated as
unsigned values.  If I start with a heading of 300, add 90 degrees, I
would expect to get an answer of 30.

That means you can freely mix signed and unsigned BAM values, and then
treat the result as either signed or unsigned, and you still get the
right answer.

With most 2's compliment ALU hardware, you get the desired signed
overflow/underflow "for free" because at the gate level it's exactly
the same as the unsigned behavior.

And back in the day, if you let the Navy pick the CPU, there was even
a single machine instruction that would convert a register pair from a
cartesian (X,Y) tuple to a polar (t,r) tuple (or vice versa).  And the
t value was in BAMs.  The various trig transcendental instructions
worked with angles in BAMs.

Python was not availble for that platform, so this is a bit of a
digression. :)

-- 
Grant Edwards               grant.b.edwards        Yow! Do you think the
                                  at               "Monkees" should get gas on
                              gmail.com            odd or even days?


From steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info  Thu Apr  9 13:49:20 2015
From: steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 2015 03:49:20 +1000
Subject: Best search algorithm to find condition within a range
References: <2e3a3c01-20b3-4948-9b32-bd80ed46822b@googlegroups.com>
 <552460cc$0$13002$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <N_gVw.164921$sZ5.11899@fx14.am4> <876196cm1e.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <xurVw.125673$7_1.63712@fx15.am4> <87k2xlzknu.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <8738498qf7.fsf@dpt-info.u-strasbg.fr> <87fv89zd0m.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <87y4m1795n.fsf@dpt-info.u-strasbg.fr>
 <mailman.165.1428585562.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <874mopzarw.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <552696be$0$13012$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <mailman.169.1428593659.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <5526a59a$0$12999$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <mailman.174.1428597399.12925.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <5526bba1$0$12992$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

On Fri, 10 Apr 2015 02:36 am, Chris Angelico wrote:

> *According to the C standard*, you just did something impossible

Woo-hoo! I can do the impossible! Immovable objects? I juggle them like
rubber balls. Unstoppable forces? I don't even notice them. The very gods
themselves will fear me!



-- 
Steven



From rosuav at gmail.com  Thu Apr  9 13:56:27 2015
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 2015 03:56:27 +1000
Subject: Best search algorithm to find condition within a range
In-Reply-To: <5526b867$0$12985$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
References: <2e3a3c01-20b3-4948-9b32-bd80ed46822b@googlegroups.com>
 <552460cc$0$13002$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <N_gVw.164921$sZ5.11899@fx14.am4>
 <876196cm1e.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <xurVw.125673$7_1.63712@fx15.am4>
 <87k2xlzknu.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <8738498qf7.fsf@dpt-info.u-strasbg.fr>
 <87fv89zd0m.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <87y4m1795n.fsf@dpt-info.u-strasbg.fr>
 <mailman.165.1428585562.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <874mopzarw.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <552696be$0$13012$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <mailman.169.1428593659.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <87y4m1b76f.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <5526b867$0$12985$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmpEc43Pm8wzxj+4OoF67GiFff3zs9dONrqBQUgw5mg_Sg@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Apr 10, 2015 at 3:35 AM, Steven D'Aprano
<steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info> wrote:
> It's not so much the undefined behaviour part that gets me. That's bad
> enough. But the concept that having the compiler ignore what you write in
> the source code because you've accidentally hit some undefined part of the
> spec *is a feature* rather than a horrible, horrible design flaw that blows
> my mind.

In Python, you can create an assert with a side effect. This is
something you should never do, and the compiler is free to optimize
that side effect out. Is that outright malicious? The only difference
is that in Python, it's well-defined - you can *depend* on that code
being optimized out under certain specific conditions, rather than it
depending on the compiler. (At least, I think that's the case. Is it
legal for a Python implementation to fully evaluate asserts and then
simply not raise the exception?)

Take this example:

def spam(lst):
    assert lst[0] < lst[1]
    # carry on with the rest of the code

If lst is a Python list, this is side-effect free. But what if it
isn't? What if __getitem__ actually mutates the object? The assertion
can be dropped, and the getitem calls not made. Is that a horrible,
horrible design flaw in Python, or is it an ill-designed object that
does things that programmers should be allowed to assume never happen?

ChrisA


From larry.martell at gmail.com  Thu Apr  9 13:59:08 2015
From: larry.martell at gmail.com (Larry Martell)
Date: Thu, 9 Apr 2015 13:59:08 -0400
Subject: Help with ElementTree
Message-ID: <CACwCsY4-3_7RBtx2LTLZ6pEAk-qW31XxeZz4aFVCmyK6f4Tong@mail.gmail.com>

I have an XML file that looks like this (this is just the pertinent
part, the file is huge):

<?xml version="1.0"?>
<Root>
  <Doc Type="CCI">
    <Node Name="SystemConfig" Section="yes">
        <Node Name="Environment">
           <Parameter Name="ToolName">
              <Value>
                 <Default>KA21</Default>
                 <Current>KA21</Current>
             </Value>
           </Parameter>
         </Node>
      </Node>

    <Node Name="Events" Section="yes">
       <Parameter Name="LastEventExportTime">
         <Value>
           <Default>00:00:00</Default>
           <Current>15/03/2014 05:56:00</Current>
         </Value>
       </Parameter>
    </Node>
  </Doc>
</Root>

I would like to use ElementTree to get 2 values from this:

SystemConfig.Environment.ToolName.Current
Events.LastEventExportTime.Current

I've been trying for hours to get ElementTree to give me these 2
values, but nothing I do seems to work. Can anyone help me with this?

Thanks!
-larry


From rosuav at gmail.com  Thu Apr  9 14:07:29 2015
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 2015 04:07:29 +1000
Subject: Best search algorithm to find condition within a range
In-Reply-To: <5526b9c3$0$12997$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
References: <2e3a3c01-20b3-4948-9b32-bd80ed46822b@googlegroups.com>
 <552460cc$0$13002$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <N_gVw.164921$sZ5.11899@fx14.am4>
 <876196cm1e.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <xurVw.125673$7_1.63712@fx15.am4>
 <87k2xlzknu.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <8738498qf7.fsf@dpt-info.u-strasbg.fr>
 <87fv89zd0m.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <87y4m1795n.fsf@dpt-info.u-strasbg.fr>
 <mailman.165.1428585562.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <874mopzarw.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <552696be$0$13012$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <mailman.169.1428593659.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <87y4m1b76f.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <mailman.176.1428597801.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <5526b9c3$0$12997$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmoTxwniRhV8_zLFC+1L_DkDgw5fp1oGuzOXOm5N-PawoA@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Apr 10, 2015 at 3:41 AM, Steven D'Aprano
<steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info> wrote:
> There are good ways to deal with out-of-range results in systems languages:
>
> - well-defined wrap-around behaviour;
> - saturation;
> - trapping.
>
> "Do whatever the hell the compiler feels like doing" is not one of them.

Systems languages are already going to be somewhat close to the metal.
They're an alternative to rewriting your code completely for every
platform you're on. If you have to guard a few small sections with
configure-time checks, that's still saved you the work of writing all
the rest of your code twice.

With applications languages, as earlier mentioned, none of this should
be necessary. Sacrifice the performance and have arbitrary-precision
integers, Unicode strings, garbage collection, and first-class
lists/functions/mappings etc. This is only about lower-level
languages.

ChrisA


From marko at pacujo.net  Thu Apr  9 14:11:03 2015
From: marko at pacujo.net (Marko Rauhamaa)
Date: Thu, 09 Apr 2015 21:11:03 +0300
Subject: Best search algorithm to find condition within a range
References: <2e3a3c01-20b3-4948-9b32-bd80ed46822b@googlegroups.com>
 <552460cc$0$13002$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <N_gVw.164921$sZ5.11899@fx14.am4> <876196cm1e.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <xurVw.125673$7_1.63712@fx15.am4> <87k2xlzknu.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <8738498qf7.fsf@dpt-info.u-strasbg.fr>
 <87fv89zd0m.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <87y4m1795n.fsf@dpt-info.u-strasbg.fr>
 <mailman.165.1428585562.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <874mopzarw.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <552696be$0$13012$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <mailman.169.1428593659.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <87y4m1b76f.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <mailman.176.1428597801.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <5526b9c3$0$12997$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <87k2xlb2a0.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>

Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info>:

> There are good ways to deal with out-of-range results in systems
> languages:
>
> - well-defined wrap-around behaviour;
> - saturation;
> - trapping.

Some months back I reported a bug in LXDE's CPU monitor applet: after a
couple of months of operation, the CPU monitor displayed a 100% CPU
utilization rate on an idle machine (on a 32-bit machine).

The reason was that scanf("%ld") saturated at LONG_MAX instead of
wrapping gracefully. Wrapping behavior would have resulted in a
perfectly well-behaved difference (and CPU utilization). As it stood,
saturation destroyed the sane-looking calculation.

The solution was to move to scanf("%lld") and prevent satufation. Again,
I don't blame the code; I blame the spec. Writing a wrapping
implementation of scanf("%ld") is the simplest possible, most obvious
and most obviously correct approach. Only it wouldn't be
standards-compliant.


Marko


From marko at pacujo.net  Thu Apr  9 14:14:52 2015
From: marko at pacujo.net (Marko Rauhamaa)
Date: Thu, 09 Apr 2015 21:14:52 +0300
Subject: Best search algorithm to find condition within a range
References: <2e3a3c01-20b3-4948-9b32-bd80ed46822b@googlegroups.com>
 <552460cc$0$13002$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <N_gVw.164921$sZ5.11899@fx14.am4> <876196cm1e.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <xurVw.125673$7_1.63712@fx15.am4> <87k2xlzknu.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <8738498qf7.fsf@dpt-info.u-strasbg.fr>
 <87fv89zd0m.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <87y4m1795n.fsf@dpt-info.u-strasbg.fr>
 <mailman.165.1428585562.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <874mopzarw.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <552696be$0$13012$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <mailman.169.1428593659.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <87y4m1b76f.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <mailman.176.1428597801.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <5526b9c3$0$12997$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <mailman.180.1428602851.12925.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <87fv89b23n.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>

Chris Angelico <rosuav at gmail.com>:

> With applications languages, as earlier mentioned, none of this should
> be necessary. Sacrifice the performance and have arbitrary-precision
> integers, Unicode strings, garbage collection, and first-class
> lists/functions/mappings etc. This is only about lower-level
> languages.

While Unicode is great, modulo arithmetics is much closer to my heart
than Unicode -- as an application programmer. Only today I released a
product feature that actively exploits the wrapping semantics.


Marko


From marko at pacujo.net  Thu Apr  9 14:15:23 2015
From: marko at pacujo.net (Marko Rauhamaa)
Date: Thu, 09 Apr 2015 21:15:23 +0300
Subject: Best search algorithm to find condition within a range
References: <2e3a3c01-20b3-4948-9b32-bd80ed46822b@googlegroups.com>
 <552460cc$0$13002$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <N_gVw.164921$sZ5.11899@fx14.am4> <876196cm1e.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <xurVw.125673$7_1.63712@fx15.am4> <87k2xlzknu.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <8738498qf7.fsf@dpt-info.u-strasbg.fr>
 <87fv89zd0m.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <87y4m1795n.fsf@dpt-info.u-strasbg.fr>
 <mailman.165.1428585562.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <874mopzarw.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <552696be$0$13012$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <mailman.169.1428593659.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <87y4m1b76f.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <5526b867$0$12985$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <87oamxb2w2.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>

Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info>:

> It's not so much the undefined behaviour part that gets me. That's bad
> enough. But the concept that having the compiler ignore what you write
> in the source code because you've accidentally hit some undefined part
> of the spec *is a feature* rather than a horrible, horrible design
> flaw that blows my mind.

Similar reasoning is applied successfully (albeit dangerously) by
Hotspot, Oracle's Java engine when optimizing multithreading.

If natural code can be successfully optimized with such assumptions,
more power to the optimizers. However, what we have here is the banning
of very natural modulo arithmetic in favor of very questionable
optimization gains. I want the wrapping semantics of integers and
routinely exploit it in my code. I want the integer semantics of enums
and want to gracefully handle range overflows. I don't want the
compiler to intervene and screw my code because it thinks it's broken in
the first place.

> Of course not all C programmers are cowboys. Linux Torvalds has a
> reputation for a zero-tolerance attitude towards kernel bugs, and a
> take-no-prisoners attitude to anyone who might break userspace code
> due to changes in the kernel. But I think that the vast number of
> C/C++ exploitable bugs is proof that most C coders lack either the
> skill or inclination to write correct C code. Even the Linux kernel
> contains bugs. Things were bad enough in the old days of classical C
> compilers, but modern C optimizing compilers may actively counteract
> your code as you have written it. How that isn't considered an
> outright malicious act, I don't know.

I actually guess the point here is to permit optimizations in code
written by complete newbs. The standard allows the optimizer guess the
"real" intentions of the programmer and remove the performance
deficiencies (a newb would use ints and imagine they are ideal
integers). It's a win-win: the newbs are happy for having written
performant code and the optimizers can feel they've accomplished heroic
performance improvements.

The sad result is that the value of C is diminished in the hands of the
experienced programmers.


Marko


From travisgriggs at gmail.com  Thu Apr  9 14:29:51 2015
From: travisgriggs at gmail.com (Travis Griggs)
Date: Thu, 9 Apr 2015 11:29:51 -0700
Subject: Concatenating Strings
Message-ID: <A3EBC2FE-B90D-45B8-9654-C27CD556210B@gmail.com>

I was doing some maintenance now on a script of mine? I noticed that I compose strings in this little 54 line file multipole times using the + operator. I was prototyping at the time I wrote it and it was quick and easy. I don?t really care for the way they read. Here?s 3 examples:

    if k + ?_@? in documents:

    timeKey = k + ?_@?

    historyKey = thingID + ?_? + k

I?m curious where others lean stylistically with this kind of thing. I see *at least* 2 other alternatives:

Use join():

    if ??.join((k, ?_@?)) in documents:

    timeKey = ??.join((k, ?_@?))

    historyKey = ?_?.join((thingID, k))

I don?t really like any of these. Maybe the 3rd, but I?d really rather see the pattern out. I also don?t like that I have to double the parens just to get a single arg joinable tuple for join()

Use format():

    if ?{}_@?.format(k) in documents:

    timeKey =  ?{}_@?.format(k)

    historyKey = ?{}_{}?.format(thingID, k)

I like these because you see a template of the values. But its still longer than just using +.

So I?m curious from those more seasoned, when they tend to use which approaches, and why.

From rosuav at gmail.com  Thu Apr  9 14:35:22 2015
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 2015 04:35:22 +1000
Subject: Concatenating Strings
In-Reply-To: <A3EBC2FE-B90D-45B8-9654-C27CD556210B@gmail.com>
References: <A3EBC2FE-B90D-45B8-9654-C27CD556210B@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmpd6LMvi5g6_gL9ppBgJNiUNrsc6yf-hYJGiQa3y8O=7A@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Apr 10, 2015 at 4:29 AM, Travis Griggs <travisgriggs at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>     if k + ?_@? in documents:
>
>     timeKey = k + ?_@?
>
>     historyKey = thingID + ?_? + k
>
> I?m curious where others lean stylistically with this kind of thing. I see *at least* 2 other alternatives:
>

So few? I'd just use string addition. No need to worry about
performance unless you actually have reason to believe it's a problem.
String addition exists for a reason!

ChrisA


From __peter__ at web.de  Thu Apr  9 14:39:02 2015
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Thu, 09 Apr 2015 20:39:02 +0200
Subject: Help with ElementTree
References: <CACwCsY4-3_7RBtx2LTLZ6pEAk-qW31XxeZz4aFVCmyK6f4Tong@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <mg6h07$uh$1@ger.gmane.org>

Larry Martell wrote:

> I have an XML file that looks like this (this is just the pertinent
> part, the file is huge):
> 
> <?xml version="1.0"?>
> <Root>
>   <Doc Type="CCI">
>     <Node Name="SystemConfig" Section="yes">
>         <Node Name="Environment">
>            <Parameter Name="ToolName">
>               <Value>
>                  <Default>KA21</Default>
>                  <Current>KA21</Current>
>              </Value>
>            </Parameter>
>          </Node>
>       </Node>
> 
>     <Node Name="Events" Section="yes">
>        <Parameter Name="LastEventExportTime">
>          <Value>
>            <Default>00:00:00</Default>
>            <Current>15/03/2014 05:56:00</Current>
>          </Value>
>        </Parameter>
>     </Node>
>   </Doc>
> </Root>
> 
> I would like to use ElementTree to get 2 values from this:
> 
> SystemConfig.Environment.ToolName.Current
> Events.LastEventExportTime.Current
> 
> I've been trying for hours to get ElementTree to give me these 2
> values, but nothing I do seems to work. Can anyone help me with this?

Try it in the interactive interpreter, one step after another:

>>> from xml.etree import ElementTree
>>> root = ElementTree.fromstring("""<?xml version="1.0"?>
... <Root>
<snip>
... </Root>
... """)
>>> root.find("Doc")
<Element 'Doc' at 0x7f12af916098>
>>> root.find("Doc/Node")
<Element 'Node' at 0x7f12af9218b8>
>>> root.find("Doc/Node/Node/Parameter/Value/Current").text
'KA21'

That "worked" because the Node elements involved are the first in the 
document. You may have to add more "conditions" until there is no ambiguity 
left, e. g. to pick the child node of Doc with the Name="Events" attribute:

>>> root.find("Doc/Node[@Name='Events']/Parameter/Value/Current").text
'15/03/2014 05:56:00'

See 

https://docs.python.org/dev/library/xml.etree.elementtree.html#xpath-support

for the details.



From ben+python at benfinney.id.au  Thu Apr  9 14:42:50 2015
From: ben+python at benfinney.id.au (Ben Finney)
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 2015 04:42:50 +1000
Subject: Help with ElementTree
References: <CACwCsY4-3_7RBtx2LTLZ6pEAk-qW31XxeZz4aFVCmyK6f4Tong@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <853849ywgl.fsf@benfinney.id.au>

Larry Martell <larry.martell at gmail.com> writes:

> I have an XML file that looks like this (this is just the pertinent
> part, the file is huge):

It's also not a very helpful schema. Elements called ?Node?, where the
actual type of element is in an attribute, just make your job needlessly
harder.

They also pointlessly force you to use mixed case, when the convention
is to name all the elements in lowercase (?parameter?, ?current?, etc.).

That said: What you need for this kind of searching within XML documents
is the XPath query language. ElementTree has limited support for it
<URL:https://docs.python.org/3/library/xml.etree.elementtree.html#elementtree-xpath>,
enough for your stated requirements.

> I would like to use ElementTree to get 2 values from this:

    >>> from xml.etree import ElementTree
    >>> doc_text = """? your example document text here ?"""
    >>> doc_tree = ElementTree.fromstring(doc_text)

> SystemConfig.Environment.ToolName.Current

    >>> toolname_xpath = ".//Node[@Name='SystemConfig']/Node[@Name='Environment']/Parameter[@Name='ToolName']//Current"
    >>> toolname_element = doc_tree.find(toolname_xpath)
    >>> toolname_element
    <Element 'Current' at 0x7f3655452c28>
    >>> toolname_element.text
    'KA21'

> Events.LastEventExportTime.Current

    >>> lasteventexporttime_xpath = ".//Node[@Name='Events']/Parameter[@Name='LastEventExportTime']//Current"
    >>> lasteventexporttime_element =
    >>> doc_tree.find(lasteventexporttime_xpath)
    >>> lasteventexporttime_element
    <Element 'Current' at 0x7f3655452db8>
    >>> lasteventexporttime_element.text
    '15/03/2014 05:56:00'

> I've been trying for hours to get ElementTree to give me these 2
> values, but nothing I do seems to work. Can anyone help me with this?

Beat the designers of that document upside the head until they give you
a more easily-parsed schema.

-- 
 \        ?Considering the current sad state of our computer programs, |
  `\     software development is clearly still a black art, and cannot |
_o__)          yet be called an engineering discipline.? ?Bill Clinton |
Ben Finney



From amfarrell at mit.edu  Thu Apr  9 14:44:11 2015
From: amfarrell at mit.edu (Andrew Farrell)
Date: Thu, 9 Apr 2015 13:44:11 -0500
Subject: Concatenating Strings
In-Reply-To: <CAPTjJmpd6LMvi5g6_gL9ppBgJNiUNrsc6yf-hYJGiQa3y8O=7A@mail.gmail.com>
References: <A3EBC2FE-B90D-45B8-9654-C27CD556210B@gmail.com>
 <CAPTjJmpd6LMvi5g6_gL9ppBgJNiUNrsc6yf-hYJGiQa3y8O=7A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CA+y5TLasokXEbVGRHhzX6uufLmzqRM6L=ZtOecUbSefnG5rGkw@mail.gmail.com>

I am under the impression that using format() is the canonically "right way
to do it". It is certainly more readable than using ''.join() and is more
semantically specific than string addition.

On Thu, Apr 9, 2015 at 1:35 PM, Chris Angelico <rosuav at gmail.com> wrote:

> On Fri, Apr 10, 2015 at 4:29 AM, Travis Griggs <travisgriggs at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >
> >     if k + ?_@? in documents:
> >
> >     timeKey = k + ?_@?
> >
> >     historyKey = thingID + ?_? + k
> >
> > I?m curious where others lean stylistically with this kind of thing. I
> see *at least* 2 other alternatives:
> >
>
> So few? I'd just use string addition. No need to worry about
> performance unless you actually have reason to believe it's a problem.
> String addition exists for a reason!
>
> ChrisA
> --
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/attachments/20150409/1df5cdb9/attachment.html>

From ben+python at benfinney.id.au  Thu Apr  9 14:46:19 2015
From: ben+python at benfinney.id.au (Ben Finney)
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 2015 04:46:19 +1000
Subject: Concatenating Strings
References: <A3EBC2FE-B90D-45B8-9654-C27CD556210B@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <85y4m1xhqc.fsf@benfinney.id.au>

Travis Griggs <travisgriggs at gmail.com> writes:

> Here?s 3 examples:
>
>     if k + ?_@? in documents:
>
>     timeKey = k + ?_@?
>
>     historyKey = thingID + ?_? + k

In addition to the other responses, I'll point out a different issue:

Your client is composing messages that munge your text. Ensure you post
only the exact characters you want to type; the above is not valid
Python code (try it yourself).

When seeking help on program code, you want to be sure your message
composition and transmission tools aren't making your communication
needlessly garbled.

-- 
 \       ?I distrust those people who know so well what God wants them |
  `\    to do to their fellows, because it always coincides with their |
_o__)                      own desires.? ?Susan Brownell Anthony, 1896 |
Ben Finney



From rosuav at gmail.com  Thu Apr  9 14:46:53 2015
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 2015 04:46:53 +1000
Subject: Concatenating Strings
In-Reply-To: <CA+y5TLasokXEbVGRHhzX6uufLmzqRM6L=ZtOecUbSefnG5rGkw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <A3EBC2FE-B90D-45B8-9654-C27CD556210B@gmail.com>
 <CAPTjJmpd6LMvi5g6_gL9ppBgJNiUNrsc6yf-hYJGiQa3y8O=7A@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA+y5TLasokXEbVGRHhzX6uufLmzqRM6L=ZtOecUbSefnG5rGkw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmqbyG6ursjt2RAHPo4_O2eEnQ9YON6u601_z+rxzZvDtw@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Apr 10, 2015 at 4:44 AM, Andrew Farrell <amfarrell at mit.edu> wrote:
> I am under the impression that using format() is the canonically "right way
> to do it". It is certainly more readable than using ''.join() and is more
> semantically specific than string addition.

Depends what you're doing. Sometimes it's better to interpolate, but
the main point is that addition of three strings is nothing to fear.
Definitely addition of two strings can never be worse than any of the
more complicated alternatives.

ChrisA


From larry.martell at gmail.com  Thu Apr  9 14:50:40 2015
From: larry.martell at gmail.com (Larry Martell)
Date: Thu, 9 Apr 2015 14:50:40 -0400
Subject: Help with ElementTree
In-Reply-To: <mg6h07$uh$1@ger.gmane.org>
References: <CACwCsY4-3_7RBtx2LTLZ6pEAk-qW31XxeZz4aFVCmyK6f4Tong@mail.gmail.com>
 <mg6h07$uh$1@ger.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <CACwCsY63BwubfhmNydzsu8Pg5qSKt6MJ_-N44hh0+yBSmZM7Sg@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Apr 9, 2015 at 2:39 PM, Peter Otten <__peter__ at web.de> wrote:
> Larry Martell wrote:
>
>> I have an XML file that looks like this (this is just the pertinent
>> part, the file is huge):
>>
>> <?xml version="1.0"?>
>> <Root>
>>   <Doc Type="CCI">
>>     <Node Name="SystemConfig" Section="yes">
>>         <Node Name="Environment">
>>            <Parameter Name="ToolName">
>>               <Value>
>>                  <Default>KA21</Default>
>>                  <Current>KA21</Current>
>>              </Value>
>>            </Parameter>
>>          </Node>
>>       </Node>
>>
>>     <Node Name="Events" Section="yes">
>>        <Parameter Name="LastEventExportTime">
>>          <Value>
>>            <Default>00:00:00</Default>
>>            <Current>15/03/2014 05:56:00</Current>
>>          </Value>
>>        </Parameter>
>>     </Node>
>>   </Doc>
>> </Root>
>>
>> I would like to use ElementTree to get 2 values from this:
>>
>> SystemConfig.Environment.ToolName.Current
>> Events.LastEventExportTime.Current
>>
>> I've been trying for hours to get ElementTree to give me these 2
>> values, but nothing I do seems to work. Can anyone help me with this?
>
> Try it in the interactive interpreter, one step after another:
>
>>>> from xml.etree import ElementTree
>>>> root = ElementTree.fromstring("""<?xml version="1.0"?>
> ... <Root>
> <snip>
> ... </Root>
> ... """)
>>>> root.find("Doc")
> <Element 'Doc' at 0x7f12af916098>
>>>> root.find("Doc/Node")
> <Element 'Node' at 0x7f12af9218b8>
>>>> root.find("Doc/Node/Node/Parameter/Value/Current").text
> 'KA21'
>
> That "worked" because the Node elements involved are the first in the
> document. You may have to add more "conditions" until there is no ambiguity
> left, e. g. to pick the child node of Doc with the Name="Events" attribute:
>
>>>> root.find("Doc/Node[@Name='Events']/Parameter/Value/Current").text
> '15/03/2014 05:56:00'
>
> See
>
> https://docs.python.org/dev/library/xml.etree.elementtree.html#xpath-support
>
> for the details.

Thanks! I did try in the interpreter and I did look at the doc you
referenced. I just couldn't get it to do what I wanted. I understand
this a lot better now. My example XML was grossly simplified, but I
can get what I need with this syntax:

root.find("Doc/Node[@Name='Events']/Parameter[@Name='LastEventExportTime']/Value/Current").text
root.find("Doc/Node[@Name='SystemConfig']/Node[@Name='Environment']/Parameter[@Name='ToolName']/Value/Current").text


From larry.martell at gmail.com  Thu Apr  9 14:54:14 2015
From: larry.martell at gmail.com (Larry Martell)
Date: Thu, 9 Apr 2015 14:54:14 -0400
Subject: Help with ElementTree
In-Reply-To: <853849ywgl.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
References: <CACwCsY4-3_7RBtx2LTLZ6pEAk-qW31XxeZz4aFVCmyK6f4Tong@mail.gmail.com>
 <853849ywgl.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
Message-ID: <CACwCsY5pVCRd8uWTRU4KOVoMjx8u8NiVgAzWa19c2Q5hbQ-dbQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Apr 9, 2015 at 2:42 PM, Ben Finney <ben+python at benfinney.id.au> wrote:
> Larry Martell <larry.martell at gmail.com> writes:
>
>> I have an XML file that looks like this (this is just the pertinent
>> part, the file is huge):
>
> It's also not a very helpful schema. Elements called ?Node?, where the
> actual type of element is in an attribute, just make your job needlessly
> harder.
>
> They also pointlessly force you to use mixed case, when the convention
> is to name all the elements in lowercase (?parameter?, ?current?, etc.).
>
> That said: What you need for this kind of searching within XML documents
> is the XPath query language. ElementTree has limited support for it
> <URL:https://docs.python.org/3/library/xml.etree.elementtree.html#elementtree-xpath>,
> enough for your stated requirements.
>
>> I would like to use ElementTree to get 2 values from this:
>
>     >>> from xml.etree import ElementTree
>     >>> doc_text = """? your example document text here ?"""
>     >>> doc_tree = ElementTree.fromstring(doc_text)
>
>> SystemConfig.Environment.ToolName.Current
>
>     >>> toolname_xpath = ".//Node[@Name='SystemConfig']/Node[@Name='Environment']/Parameter[@Name='ToolName']//Current"
>     >>> toolname_element = doc_tree.find(toolname_xpath)
>     >>> toolname_element
>     <Element 'Current' at 0x7f3655452c28>
>     >>> toolname_element.text
>     'KA21'
>
>> Events.LastEventExportTime.Current
>
>     >>> lasteventexporttime_xpath = ".//Node[@Name='Events']/Parameter[@Name='LastEventExportTime']//Current"
>     >>> lasteventexporttime_element =
>     >>> doc_tree.find(lasteventexporttime_xpath)
>     >>> lasteventexporttime_element
>     <Element 'Current' at 0x7f3655452db8>
>     >>> lasteventexporttime_element.text
>     '15/03/2014 05:56:00'


Thanks. I have this working with the help of Peter's reply.

>> I've been trying for hours to get ElementTree to give me these 2
>> values, but nothing I do seems to work. Can anyone help me with this?
>
> Beat the designers of that document upside the head until they give you
> a more easily-parsed schema.

It's programmatically generated by various pieces of semiconductor
manufacturing equipment. It's not in my power to get that changed.


From rosuav at gmail.com  Thu Apr  9 14:57:01 2015
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 2015 04:57:01 +1000
Subject: Concatenating Strings
In-Reply-To: <85y4m1xhqc.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
References: <A3EBC2FE-B90D-45B8-9654-C27CD556210B@gmail.com>
 <85y4m1xhqc.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmowMUzxdajiCB1rYSoJrAQ_ecdS6K1bRP7_4rwpYdKeTA@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Apr 10, 2015 at 4:46 AM, Ben Finney <ben+python at benfinney.id.au> wrote:
> Travis Griggs <travisgriggs at gmail.com> writes:
>
>> Here?s 3 examples:
>>
>>     if k + ?_@? in documents:
>>
>>     timeKey = k + ?_@?
>>
>>     historyKey = thingID + ?_? + k
>
> In addition to the other responses, I'll point out a different issue:
>
> Your client is composing messages that munge your text. Ensure you post
> only the exact characters you want to type; the above is not valid
> Python code (try it yourself).

I don't think they were meant to be one block. They're three
independent examples.

ChrisA


From ben.usenet at bsb.me.uk  Thu Apr  9 15:19:47 2015
From: ben.usenet at bsb.me.uk (Ben Bacarisse)
Date: Thu, 09 Apr 2015 20:19:47 +0100
Subject: Concatenating Strings
References: <A3EBC2FE-B90D-45B8-9654-C27CD556210B@gmail.com>
 <85y4m1xhqc.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
 <mailman.190.1428605824.12925.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <87vbh5154c.fsf@bsb.me.uk>

Chris Angelico <rosuav at gmail.com> writes:

> On Fri, Apr 10, 2015 at 4:46 AM, Ben Finney <ben+python at benfinney.id.au> wrote:
>> Travis Griggs <travisgriggs at gmail.com> writes:
>>
>>> Here?s 3 examples:
>>>
>>>     if k + ?_@? in documents:
>>>
>>>     timeKey = k + ?_@?
>>>
>>>     historyKey = thingID + ?_? + k
>>
>> In addition to the other responses, I'll point out a different issue:
>>
>> Your client is composing messages that munge your text. Ensure you post
>> only the exact characters you want to type; the above is not valid
>> Python code (try it yourself).
>
> I don't think they were meant to be one block. They're three
> independent examples.

I don't think that was what Ben Finney was referring to.  I would say it
is the quotes that are the main problem being pointed out.

-- 
Ben.


From rosuav at gmail.com  Thu Apr  9 15:23:31 2015
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 2015 05:23:31 +1000
Subject: Concatenating Strings
In-Reply-To: <87vbh5154c.fsf@bsb.me.uk>
References: <A3EBC2FE-B90D-45B8-9654-C27CD556210B@gmail.com>
 <85y4m1xhqc.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
 <mailman.190.1428605824.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <87vbh5154c.fsf@bsb.me.uk>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmrDg749+FmAm6FWCCpaUptkKph_pFvgg+KF8B=TJ1f9tg@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Apr 10, 2015 at 5:19 AM, Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet at bsb.me.uk> wrote:
> Chris Angelico <rosuav at gmail.com> writes:
>
>> On Fri, Apr 10, 2015 at 4:46 AM, Ben Finney <ben+python at benfinney.id.au> wrote:
>>> Travis Griggs <travisgriggs at gmail.com> writes:
>>>
>>>> Here?s 3 examples:
>>>>
>>>>     if k + ?_@? in documents:
>>>>
>>>>     timeKey = k + ?_@?
>>>>
>>>>     historyKey = thingID + ?_? + k
>>>
>>> In addition to the other responses, I'll point out a different issue:
>>>
>>> Your client is composing messages that munge your text. Ensure you post
>>> only the exact characters you want to type; the above is not valid
>>> Python code (try it yourself).
>>
>> I don't think they were meant to be one block. They're three
>> independent examples.
>
> I don't think that was what Ben Finney was referring to.  I would say it
> is the quotes that are the main problem being pointed out.

Erk! I honestly did not even notice that. Apparently the font Gmail's
using doesn't make them materially different from apostrophes. Kinda
makes the curly quotes rather pointless, doesn't it!

ChrisA


From ben+python at benfinney.id.au  Thu Apr  9 19:32:13 2015
From: ben+python at benfinney.id.au (Ben Finney)
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 2015 09:32:13 +1000
Subject: Concatenating Strings
References: <A3EBC2FE-B90D-45B8-9654-C27CD556210B@gmail.com>
 <85y4m1xhqc.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
 <CAPTjJmowMUzxdajiCB1rYSoJrAQ_ecdS6K1bRP7_4rwpYdKeTA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <85pp7cyj2a.fsf@benfinney.id.au>

Chris Angelico <rosuav at gmail.com> writes:

> On Fri, Apr 10, 2015 at 4:46 AM, Ben Finney <ben+python at benfinney.id.au> wrote:
> > Your client is composing messages that munge your text. Ensure you
> > post only the exact characters you want to type; the above is not
> > valid Python code (try it yourself).
>
> I don't think they were meant to be one block. They're three
> independent examples.

Each of which is invalid syntax, because whatever was used to compose
the message has replaced some characters.

    >>> if k + ?_@? in documents:
      File "<stdin>", line 1
        if k + ?_@? in documents:
                ^
    SyntaxError: invalid character in identifier
    >>> timeKey = k + ?_@?
      File "<stdin>", line 1
        timeKey = k + ?_@?
                       ^
    SyntaxError: invalid character in identifier
    >>> historyKey = thingID + ?_? + k
      File "<stdin>", line 1
        historyKey = thingID + ?_? + k
                                 ^
    SyntaxError: invalid character in identifier

If those characters are not the same as what the original poster is
seeing, then the rest of us should not be guessing about any of the
characters in that code.

Essential to asking for help with some program code is using tools that
reliably transmit the exact same characters to whoever one is asking for
help.

-- 
 \     ?Nothing worth saying is inoffensive to everyone. Nothing worth |
  `\    saying will fail to make you enemies. And nothing worth saying |
_o__)            will not produce a confrontation.? ?Johann Hari, 2011 |
Ben Finney



From tjreedy at udel.edu  Thu Apr  9 20:32:04 2015
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Thu, 09 Apr 2015 20:32:04 -0400
Subject: Concatenating Strings
In-Reply-To: <85pp7cyj2a.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
References: <A3EBC2FE-B90D-45B8-9654-C27CD556210B@gmail.com>
 <85y4m1xhqc.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
 <CAPTjJmowMUzxdajiCB1rYSoJrAQ_ecdS6K1bRP7_4rwpYdKeTA@mail.gmail.com>
 <85pp7cyj2a.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
Message-ID: <mg75n2$l35$1@ger.gmane.org>

On 4/9/2015 7:32 PM, Ben Finney wrote:

> Each of which is invalid syntax, because whatever was used to compose
> the message has replaced some characters.
>
>      >>> if k + ?_@? in documents:
>        File "<stdin>", line 1
>          if k + ?_@? in documents:
>                  ^
>      SyntaxError: invalid character in identifier

The pointer, for those whose eyes are imperfect, like mine, is off by 
one.  The problem is the codepoint 8216 inverted quote ?, not the 
following underscore _ codepoint 95.  Remove the _ and the error 
persists, with the pointer pointing to ?.  Ampersand @ 64 is also 
invalid, but the error persists with that removed.

 >>> Your client is composing messages that munge your text. Ensure you
 >>> post only the exact characters you want to type;

Right.  Turning ' to ? is a common evil of bad clients.

-- 
Terry Jan Reedy




From steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info  Fri Apr 10 01:07:27 2015
From: steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 2015 15:07:27 +1000
Subject: Concatenating Strings
References: <mailman.181.1428604202.12925.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <55275a90$0$12981$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

On Fri, 10 Apr 2015 04:29 am, Travis Griggs wrote:

> I was doing some maintenance now on a script of mine? I noticed that I
> compose strings in this little 54 line file multipole times using the +
> operator. I was prototyping at the time I wrote it and it was quick and
> easy. I don?t really care for the way they read. Here?s 3 examples:
> 
>     if k + ?_@? in documents:
> 
>     timeKey = k + ?_@?
> 
>     historyKey = thingID + ?_? + k
> 
> I?m curious where others lean stylistically with this kind of thing.


String concatenation requires some judgement, not a mindless mechanical
choice. But not *much* judgement :-)

If you're only concatenating a couple of strings, use the + operator, or the
equivalent augmented assignment:

    if make_plural:
        noun += "s"  # like noun = noun + "s"


But if you're concatenating a lot of strings, use join:


    if condition:
        substrings = [mystring,
                      'fe', 'fi', 'fo', 'fum', 
                      'groucho', 'chico', 'harpo', 'zeppo', 'gummo', 
                      'spam', 'eggs', 'cheese', 'tomato',
                      'do', 're', 'mi', 'fa', 'so', 'la', 'ti']
        s = ''.join(substrings)


This is especially the case when you are concatenating inside a loop:


    for suffix in suffixes:
        word = word + suffix


The problem with concatenation is that strings are immutable, so each string
concatenation has to create a brand new temporary string. Hence:

    'a' + 'b' + 'c' + 'd' + ... + 'z'

creates temporary strings:

    'ab'
    'abc'
    'abcd'
    'abcde'

etc only to throw them away a moment later. This is a lot of wasted work
that can be slow. How slow? In the worst case, *very* slow. Some years ago,
there was a bug reported with Python that had Python downloading data from
a local network *tens of thousands of times slower* than IE or Firefox
could do. Something that the web browser would download in a millisecond,
Python would take multiple minutes to download. It took weeks of effort to
track the problem down to repeated string concatenation inside one of the
Python libraries. Guido himself described it as an embarrassment.

The trap is that *sometimes* the Python interpreter can optimize those
intermediate string concatenations so as to avoid the slow behaviour, but
only sometimes. Whether it works or not is highly dependent on the code,
whether the substrings have been cached, and how the operating system
allocates memory. That means that 99% of the time, you can run some code
which does repeated concatenation, and it will run as fast as join, but one
day a user will run the same code and report that it runs thousands of
times slower than expected. But when you run the code on your own machine,
you won't see the problem. Ouch.

So although the "make string concatenation fast (well, usually fast)"
optimization is a nice thing to have when it works, it is risky to rely on
it. Hence you should always use join in production code any time you are
concatenating more than (say) half a dozen substrings.

But for the common case where you just want to append a suffix, or prepend a
prefix, using + is perfectly fine.




-- 
Steven



From steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info  Fri Apr 10 01:17:31 2015
From: steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 2015 15:17:31 +1000
Subject: Concatenating Strings
References: <A3EBC2FE-B90D-45B8-9654-C27CD556210B@gmail.com>
 <CAPTjJmpd6LMvi5g6_gL9ppBgJNiUNrsc6yf-hYJGiQa3y8O=7A@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.186.1428605395.12925.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <55275cec$0$12998$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

On Fri, 10 Apr 2015 04:44 am, Andrew Farrell wrote:

> I am under the impression that using format() is the canonically "right
> way to do it". It is certainly more readable than using ''.join() and is
> more semantically specific than string addition.

Certainly not. Using format in a loop to concatenate thousands of strings
will be horribly slow:

    text = ''
    for word in words:
        text = '{} {}'.format(text, word)


suffers from the problem that it has to create many intermediate strings
that are then just thrown away. The same applies to string interpolation
with the % operator:

    text = ''
    for word in words:
        text = '%s %s' % (text, word)

In both cases, use join:

    text = ' '.join(words)

which is much faster and easier to understand. Unlike repeated
concatenation, or repeated format/interpolation, join() can pre-allocate a
single block of memory for the new string, then fill it in, rather than go
through a loop of 

    allocate memory for a temporary string
    fill it in
    deallocate the previous temporary string

potentially thousands or millions of times.

But for the simple case where you are only concatenating a few substrings,
using format/interpolation is fine.


-- 
Steven



From dieter at handshake.de  Fri Apr 10 02:11:51 2015
From: dieter at handshake.de (dieter)
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 2015 08:11:51 +0200
Subject: Exception Handling
References: <b6461fc8-a18b-4d61-86f9-65370b0a149d@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <87d23czf4o.fsf@handshake.de>

Palpandi <palpandi111 at gmail.com> writes:

> Is there any way to roll back or undo changes which are all done before exception occurs.

You are mostly interested in such a function when you handle
persistent data (data which persists across program activations -
otherwise, you can always quit the current program and restart it again).

Python usually does not handle persistent data by itself but
uses some kind of library or external system - e.g. a
relational database. Those external components may support
the concept of "transaction". Their primary function
is to ensure a consistent persistant state in view of concurrent
modifications. As a side effect, they support a "rollback"
which rolls back all modifications to persistent data made by the
rolled back transaction.

With some limitations, you can use the Python modules
"ZODB3" and "transaction" (available on "PyPI") to use
transactions in your program - even if you are not interested
in persistent data. Its "rollback" will not undo all changes but only
changes to "ZODB object"s.



From palpandi111 at gmail.com  Fri Apr 10 04:39:54 2015
From: palpandi111 at gmail.com (Palpandi)
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 2015 01:39:54 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Exception Handling
In-Reply-To: <b6461fc8-a18b-4d61-86f9-65370b0a149d@googlegroups.com>
References: <b6461fc8-a18b-4d61-86f9-65370b0a149d@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1cd0a97d-96c7-4ee6-9cfe-c0e90b9baa55@googlegroups.com>

Thanks for your responses. And I have one more question.

This is the situation. A python application which reads data from one .xml file and generates some other file. Here what kind of exceptions occur?


From pavel at schon.cz  Fri Apr 10 04:48:06 2015
From: pavel at schon.cz (Pavel S)
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 2015 01:48:06 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: try..except with empty exceptions
Message-ID: <64a75c32-e0ab-4ce0-9373-358c2669fe6e@googlegroups.com>

Hi,

I noticed interesting behaviour. Since I don't have python3 installation here, I tested that on Python 2.7.

Well known feature is that try..except block can catch multiple exceptions listed in a tuple:


exceptions = ( TypeError, ValueError )

try:
    a, b = None
except exceptions, e:
    print 'Catched error:', e


However when exceptions=(), then try..except block behaves as no try..except block.


exceptions = ()

try:
    a, b = None   # <--- the error will not be catched
except exceptions, e:
    print 'Catched error:', e


I found use case for it, e.g. when I want to have a method with 'exceptions' argument:


def catch_exceptions(exceptions=()):
  try:
     do_something()
  except exceptions:
     do_something_else()


catch_exceptions()               # catches nothing
catch_exceptions((TypeError,))   # catches TypeError


I believe that behaviour is not documented. What you think?


From rosuav at gmail.com  Fri Apr 10 04:58:23 2015
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 2015 18:58:23 +1000
Subject: try..except with empty exceptions
In-Reply-To: <64a75c32-e0ab-4ce0-9373-358c2669fe6e@googlegroups.com>
References: <64a75c32-e0ab-4ce0-9373-358c2669fe6e@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmoujhkVcgdNvD36qg345EJXmSh_CHT82Y0YUaUcxT6sDg@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Apr 10, 2015 at 6:48 PM, Pavel S <pavel at schon.cz> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I noticed interesting behaviour. Since I don't have python3 installation here, I tested that on Python 2.7.
>
> Well known feature is that try..except block can catch multiple exceptions listed in a tuple:
>
> However when exceptions=(), then try..except block behaves as no try..except block.
>
> exceptions = ()
>
> try:
>     a, b = None   # <--- the error will not be catched
> except exceptions, e:
>     print 'Catched error:', e
>
> I believe that behaviour is not documented. What you think?

It's no different from any other except clause that doesn't match. An
empty tuple of exception types can never match any actual exception
thrown, so it'll be like skipping that except block. It doesn't need
to be specifically documented, as it's a natural consequence of the
use of the empty tuple there.

However, even though it's perfectly plausible as regards language
definition, I would hesitate to use it in production code. I'm not
sure this makes your code any better.

Side point: Even though you're not using Python 3 (where it's
mandatory), I would recommend using the "as" syntax with except
clauses:

exceptions = ()
try:
    a, b = None
except exceptions as e:
    print("Can't happen")

Writing your code to be compatible with both 2.7 and 3.x will make the
eventual port easier.

ChrisA


From rosuav at gmail.com  Fri Apr 10 05:00:01 2015
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 2015 19:00:01 +1000
Subject: Exception Handling
In-Reply-To: <1cd0a97d-96c7-4ee6-9cfe-c0e90b9baa55@googlegroups.com>
References: <b6461fc8-a18b-4d61-86f9-65370b0a149d@googlegroups.com>
 <1cd0a97d-96c7-4ee6-9cfe-c0e90b9baa55@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmpKX1sw-bmsvt9s8kgH+cmwBMWjwupO48AxptmFxRkFTA@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Apr 10, 2015 at 6:39 PM, Palpandi <palpandi111 at gmail.com> wrote:
> Thanks for your responses. And I have one more question.
>
> This is the situation. A python application which reads data from one .xml file and generates some other file. Here what kind of exceptions occur?

All sorts of exceptions. The best way to find out is to write your
code without any try/except clauses, and then run it. When an
exception happens, it'll be printed out on the console, and the
program terminated. Then you can decide how your program should cope
with that. Catch an exception *only* if you can actually deal with it
inside your code; otherwise, just let it bubble up.

ChrisA


From larry.martell at gmail.com  Fri Apr 10 06:49:07 2015
From: larry.martell at gmail.com (Larry Martell)
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 2015 06:49:07 -0400
Subject: Help with ElementTree
In-Reply-To: <CACwCsY63BwubfhmNydzsu8Pg5qSKt6MJ_-N44hh0+yBSmZM7Sg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CACwCsY4-3_7RBtx2LTLZ6pEAk-qW31XxeZz4aFVCmyK6f4Tong@mail.gmail.com>
 <mg6h07$uh$1@ger.gmane.org>
 <CACwCsY63BwubfhmNydzsu8Pg5qSKt6MJ_-N44hh0+yBSmZM7Sg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CACwCsY5vfpqGnYyCLi-7UVGNTm5VZbGddDPpW6UX+=cygUfUng@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Apr 9, 2015 at 2:50 PM, Larry Martell <larry.martell at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Thu, Apr 9, 2015 at 2:39 PM, Peter Otten <__peter__ at web.de> wrote:
>> Larry Martell wrote:
>>
>>> I have an XML file that looks like this (this is just the pertinent
>>> part, the file is huge):
>>>
>>> <?xml version="1.0"?>
>>> <Root>
>>>   <Doc Type="CCI">
>>>     <Node Name="SystemConfig" Section="yes">
>>>         <Node Name="Environment">
>>>            <Parameter Name="ToolName">
>>>               <Value>
>>>                  <Default>KA21</Default>
>>>                  <Current>KA21</Current>
>>>              </Value>
>>>            </Parameter>
>>>          </Node>
>>>       </Node>
>>>
>>>     <Node Name="Events" Section="yes">
>>>        <Parameter Name="LastEventExportTime">
>>>          <Value>
>>>            <Default>00:00:00</Default>
>>>            <Current>15/03/2014 05:56:00</Current>
>>>          </Value>
>>>        </Parameter>
>>>     </Node>
>>>   </Doc>
>>> </Root>
>>>
>>> I would like to use ElementTree to get 2 values from this:
>>>
>>> SystemConfig.Environment.ToolName.Current
>>> Events.LastEventExportTime.Current
>>>
>>> I've been trying for hours to get ElementTree to give me these 2
>>> values, but nothing I do seems to work. Can anyone help me with this?
>>
>> Try it in the interactive interpreter, one step after another:
>>
>>>>> from xml.etree import ElementTree
>>>>> root = ElementTree.fromstring("""<?xml version="1.0"?>
>> ... <Root>
>> <snip>
>> ... </Root>
>> ... """)
>>>>> root.find("Doc")
>> <Element 'Doc' at 0x7f12af916098>
>>>>> root.find("Doc/Node")
>> <Element 'Node' at 0x7f12af9218b8>
>>>>> root.find("Doc/Node/Node/Parameter/Value/Current").text
>> 'KA21'
>>
>> That "worked" because the Node elements involved are the first in the
>> document. You may have to add more "conditions" until there is no ambiguity
>> left, e. g. to pick the child node of Doc with the Name="Events" attribute:
>>
>>>>> root.find("Doc/Node[@Name='Events']/Parameter/Value/Current").text
>> '15/03/2014 05:56:00'
>>
>> See
>>
>> https://docs.python.org/dev/library/xml.etree.elementtree.html#xpath-support
>>
>> for the details.
>
> Thanks! I did try in the interpreter and I did look at the doc you
> referenced. I just couldn't get it to do what I wanted. I understand
> this a lot better now. My example XML was grossly simplified, but I
> can get what I need with this syntax:
>
> root.find("Doc/Node[@Name='Events']/Parameter[@Name='LastEventExportTime']/Value/Current").text
> root.find("Doc/Node[@Name='SystemConfig']/Node[@Name='Environment']/Parameter[@Name='ToolName']/Value/Current").text


So I tested this on a machine running 2.7, but then when I deployed it
to my client's machine it did not work. Turns out they're running 2.6
which I find does not support searching for attributes using the
[@attribute] syntax. They do not want to upgrade, so I have to find a
way to do this without using that. :-(


From mal at python.org  Fri Apr 10 07:01:56 2015
From: mal at python.org (M.-A. Lemburg)
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 2015 13:01:56 +0200
Subject: PSF Python Brochure: Get your free copy at PyCon 2015
Message-ID: <5527ADA4.2070701@python.org>

[Please help spread the word by forwarding to other relevant mailing lists,
 user groups, etc. world-wide; thanks :-)]
________________________________________________________________________
ANNOUNCING

                PSF Python Brochure is available again:

                   Get your free copy at PyCon 2015


________________________________________________________________________
INTRODUCTION

After having distributed the first 5,000 copies of the PSF Python
Brochure to Python conferences and user groups around the world in the
last 12 months, we have now finished the second print run with another
5,000 copies just in time for PyCon 2015 in Montreal.

Many thanks go to JetBrains for jumping in as additional ad sponsor
to help finance the printing and community order shipping costs for this
second print run. We would also like to thank all our initial sponsors
and contributors for their hard work.

________________________________________________________________________
PROMOTING PYTHON

The feedback we have received for the brochure was positive all around.

Conference attendees were really happy to be able to easily show and
prove how Python changes the world, to make the point that learning and
using Python is a good investment.

The brochure helps them in promoting Python in their local and
professional communities, especially to the many non-technical people
we cannot easily reach with our python.org web site.

________________________________________________________________________
GET YOUR BROCHURE COPY

Come and get your copy at the Python Software Foundation booth
(booth number 101) at PyCon 2015 in Montreal.

If you cannot fetch your hard copy in person, you can order copies
from our project page (http://brochure.getpython.info/):

 * free Community Orders for conferences and user groups

 * paid Company Orders for companies and organizations

The costs for the community orders are sponsored through sponsor ads,
the PSF and the company orders.

________________________________________________________________________
MEET THE TEAM

I was very happy to work together with our core team members in the
last 4 years:

 * Jan Ulrich Hasecke who was responsible as editor in chief and
   managed the contribution side of things together with me.

 * Armin Stro?-Radschinski and his company evenios which did the
   initial coordination of funding, layout concept, artwork,
   production and distribution.

Our efforts have resulted in a brochure of almost fully CC-3.0-BY-SA
content that is reusable by the community. The feedback after one year
of circulation is quite promising and we are considering doing a second
volume with more success stories and use cases, provided we can get
enough support from sponsors and the PSF.

________________________________________________________________________
MORE INFORMATION

More information on the brochure, the idea behind it, media data
and ordering links are available on our project page:

    http://brochure.getpython.info/


Enjoy,
-- 
Marc-Andre Lemburg
Director
Python Software Foundation (PSF)
http://www.python.org/psf/


From stefan_ml at behnel.de  Fri Apr 10 07:32:21 2015
From: stefan_ml at behnel.de (Stefan Behnel)
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 2015 13:32:21 +0200
Subject: Help with ElementTree
In-Reply-To: <CACwCsY5vfpqGnYyCLi-7UVGNTm5VZbGddDPpW6UX+=cygUfUng@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CACwCsY4-3_7RBtx2LTLZ6pEAk-qW31XxeZz4aFVCmyK6f4Tong@mail.gmail.com>
 <mg6h07$uh$1@ger.gmane.org>
 <CACwCsY63BwubfhmNydzsu8Pg5qSKt6MJ_-N44hh0+yBSmZM7Sg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CACwCsY5vfpqGnYyCLi-7UVGNTm5VZbGddDPpW6UX+=cygUfUng@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <mg8cc7$uj9$1@ger.gmane.org>

Larry Martell schrieb am 10.04.2015 um 12:49:
>> root.find("Doc/Node[@Name='Events']/Parameter[@Name='LastEventExportTime']/Value/Current").text
>> root.find("Doc/Node[@Name='SystemConfig']/Node[@Name='Environment']/Parameter[@Name='ToolName']/Value/Current").text
> 
> So I tested this on a machine running 2.7, but then when I deployed it
> to my client's machine it did not work. Turns out they're running 2.6
> which I find does not support searching for attributes using the
> [@attribute] syntax. They do not want to upgrade, so I have to find a
> way to do this without using that. :-(

Do they, by any chance, have lxml installed on their machine? If so, you
could use that as a (pretty much) drop-in replacement for ElementTree, with
a substantially larger feature set.

Stefan




From __peter__ at web.de  Fri Apr 10 08:02:20 2015
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 2015 14:02:20 +0200
Subject: Help with ElementTree
References: <CACwCsY4-3_7RBtx2LTLZ6pEAk-qW31XxeZz4aFVCmyK6f4Tong@mail.gmail.com>
 <mg6h07$uh$1@ger.gmane.org>
 <CACwCsY63BwubfhmNydzsu8Pg5qSKt6MJ_-N44hh0+yBSmZM7Sg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CACwCsY5vfpqGnYyCLi-7UVGNTm5VZbGddDPpW6UX+=cygUfUng@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <mg8e4c$pr1$1@ger.gmane.org>

Larry Martell wrote:

> root.find("Doc/Node[@Name='SystemConfig']/Node[@Name='Environment']/"
>           "Parameter[@Name='ToolName']/Value/Current").text

> So I tested this on a machine running 2.7, but then when I deployed it
> to my client's machine it did not work. Turns out they're running 2.6
> which I find does not support searching for attributes using the
> [@attribute] syntax. They do not want to upgrade, so I have to find a
> way to do this without using that. :-(

A quick and dirty approach (untested!):

Add the ElementPath.py from 2.7 to your project (as myelementpath.py, say) 
and monkey-patch ElementTree:

import xml.etree.ElementTree
import myelementpath
xml.etree.ElementTree.ElementPath = myelementpath




From larry.martell at gmail.com  Fri Apr 10 08:06:55 2015
From: larry.martell at gmail.com (Larry Martell)
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 2015 08:06:55 -0400
Subject: Help with ElementTree
In-Reply-To: <mg8cc7$uj9$1@ger.gmane.org>
References: <CACwCsY4-3_7RBtx2LTLZ6pEAk-qW31XxeZz4aFVCmyK6f4Tong@mail.gmail.com>
 <mg6h07$uh$1@ger.gmane.org>
 <CACwCsY63BwubfhmNydzsu8Pg5qSKt6MJ_-N44hh0+yBSmZM7Sg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CACwCsY5vfpqGnYyCLi-7UVGNTm5VZbGddDPpW6UX+=cygUfUng@mail.gmail.com>
 <mg8cc7$uj9$1@ger.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <CACwCsY5eGrpVZyZxx4iD4GL-zxb1_RAFw=0RxLUyhBEno9vXTw@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Apr 10, 2015 at 7:32 AM, Stefan Behnel <stefan_ml at behnel.de> wrote:
> Larry Martell schrieb am 10.04.2015 um 12:49:
>>> root.find("Doc/Node[@Name='Events']/Parameter[@Name='LastEventExportTime']/Value/Current").text
>>> root.find("Doc/Node[@Name='SystemConfig']/Node[@Name='Environment']/Parameter[@Name='ToolName']/Value/Current").text
>>
>> So I tested this on a machine running 2.7, but then when I deployed it
>> to my client's machine it did not work. Turns out they're running 2.6
>> which I find does not support searching for attributes using the
>> [@attribute] syntax. They do not want to upgrade, so I have to find a
>> way to do this without using that. :-(
>
> Do they, by any chance, have lxml installed on their machine? If so, you
> could use that as a (pretty much) drop-in replacement for ElementTree, with
> a substantially larger feature set.

No, they don't. What I ended up doing is, I got the 2.7 xml/etree and
I copied that to the 2.6 dir as xml/etree27 and imported that and it
works.


From steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info  Fri Apr 10 09:18:31 2015
From: steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 2015 23:18:31 +1000
Subject: Best search algorithm to find condition within a range
References: <2e3a3c01-20b3-4948-9b32-bd80ed46822b@googlegroups.com>
 <552460cc$0$13002$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <N_gVw.164921$sZ5.11899@fx14.am4> <876196cm1e.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <xurVw.125673$7_1.63712@fx15.am4> <87k2xlzknu.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <8738498qf7.fsf@dpt-info.u-strasbg.fr> <87fv89zd0m.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <87y4m1795n.fsf@dpt-info.u-strasbg.fr>
 <mailman.165.1428585562.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <874mopzarw.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <552696be$0$13012$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <mailman.169.1428593659.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <87y4m1b76f.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <5526b867$0$12985$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <mailman.178.1428602190.12925.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <5527cda8$0$12981$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

On Fri, 10 Apr 2015 03:56 am, Chris Angelico wrote:

> On Fri, Apr 10, 2015 at 3:35 AM, Steven D'Aprano
> <steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info> wrote:
>> It's not so much the undefined behaviour part that gets me. That's bad
>> enough. But the concept that having the compiler ignore what you write in
>> the source code because you've accidentally hit some undefined part of
>> the spec *is a feature* rather than a horrible, horrible design flaw that
>> blows my mind.
> 
> In Python, you can create an assert with a side effect. This is
> something you should never do, 

"Never" is a bit strong. There's nothing wrong with:


assert log("some message") or condition

for example.


> and the compiler is free to optimize that side effect out. 

Not really. The compiler is free to not execute the assertion at all, which
is not the same thing. A Python compiler which determined that log() always
returned None, and optimized the assertion to "assert condition", would be
buggy.


> Is that outright malicious? The only difference  
> is that in Python, it's well-defined - you can *depend* on that code
> being optimized out under certain specific conditions, rather than it
> depending on the compiler.

There's more to my complaint than just that. In Python, the side-effects of
optimizing assert are localised to the assert statement. That's good! But
in C, the compiler can and will throw away more than assertions. Any chunk
of code could be thrown away, including code that should execute *before*
the undefined behaviour. You have spooky action at a distance and time
travel.

Explaining this requires a bit of set up, and I'm going to steal it from
Raymond Chen, whose blog is awesome despite him working for the Evil
Empire. (Not Google, the other one. No, not Apple. The one that used to be
scary. No, not IBM, more recently than that. Yes, Microsoft, that's the
one!) If you want to read about it in the original C, here it is:

http://blogs.msdn.com/b/oldnewthing/archive/2014/06/27/10537746.aspx

Suppose you write this function in Python:

def value_or_fallback(thingy):
    print("The value of thingy is %d" % thingy)
    return int(thingy) if thingy is not None else 42


`value_or_fallback` is buggy, because %d of None is an error. In actual
Python, the semantics of this are completely well defined: a runtime
TypeError. But in BizarroPython, that operation is undefined behaviour. So
the compiler can optimize that to:

def value_or_fallback(thingy):
    print("The value of thingy is %d" % thingy)
    return int(thingy)

BizarroPython can reason that if `thingy` is None, the first line (the print
call) is already performing undefined behaviour, so the compiler can do
anything, including act as if `thingy` is not None.

To put it another way, the compiler knows that if thingy is None, the print
call will crash before reaching the return call, so it can ignore the error
checking around the return. If thingy is None, the error checking will
never get the chance to run. If thingy isn't None, the error checking is
superfluous. (If this reasoning seems dubious to you, it's because it is.)

So far, this isn't too surprising. If we don't think too hard about it, we
might even consider this to be reasonable behaviour. But now the undefined
behaviour of `value_or_fallback` infects everything it touches, and allows
BizarroPython free reign to brutalise your code with a rusty shovel.


def unwitting(door_is_open):
    if door_is_open:
        walk_on_in()
    else:
       ring_bell()
       # wait for the door to open using the fallback value
       fallback = value_or_fallback(thingy)
       wait_for_door_to_open(fallback)


BizarroPython can optimize this entire function to:

def unwitting(door_is_open):
    walk_on_in()


The compiler observes that if `door_is_open` is false, the else branch
always performs undefined behaviour. Therefore, the entire else branch can
be treated as dead code.

Now let's start travelling in time:


def keep_checking_door():
    while True:
        response = input("Is the door open?")
        if len(response) != 1:
            return None
        door_is_open = response == 'Y'
        unwitting(door_is_open)



Our BizarroPython compiler may reason that "if door_is_open is false, then
the behaviour is undefined" and compile the function as if it were this:
 
def keep_checking_door():
    while True:
        response = input("Is the door open?")
        if len(response) != 1:
            return None
        door_is_open = response == 'Y'
        if not door_is_open:
            os.abort()  # Dumps core.
        walk_on_in()


All this is well and good, if your intention was to crash faster. But if
you're trying to debug the crash, you have lost a valuable debugging hint.
If you thought you could debug your code by tracing it in your head, or on
paper, you've got a nasty surprise waiting. If you reason that since the
bell never gets rung, the bug causing the crash must be somewhere *before*
the call to ring_bell, but that's not the case. The bug occurs after
ring_bell, and propagates "backwards in time" to crash the application
before reaching the buggy code.

Obviously this isn't *actual* time travel, a less provocative phrase is the
one used by the C standard:


    However, if any such execution contains an undefined operation, 
    this International Standard places no requirement on the 
    implementation executing that program with that input (not even 
    with regard to operations preceding the first undefined operation).


I prefer to call it time travel.



> (At least, I think that's the case. Is it 
> legal for a Python implementation to fully evaluate asserts and then
> simply not raise the exception?)

The documented semantics of assertions in Python, like most (all?) other
languages which have them, is that assertions either run or don't run. What
doesn't happen is for them to run but suppress any exceptions. That would
be pointless: all the expensive of running the test, without the benefit of
seeing whether the test fails or not.

Could another language work the way you suggest? Well sure, another language
might define assertions any way they like, just as it might use "if x in
sequence" as a loop statement and have a rule that print() outputs to
stdout except on public holidays, when it outputs to a temporary file in
your home directory. There's no limit to how foolish languages could be.


> Take this example:
> 
> def spam(lst):
>     assert lst[0] < lst[1]
>     # carry on with the rest of the code
> 
> If lst is a Python list, this is side-effect free. But what if it
> isn't? What if __getitem__ actually mutates the object? The assertion
> can be dropped, and the getitem calls not made. Is that a horrible,
> horrible design flaw in Python, or is it an ill-designed object that
> does things that programmers should be allowed to assume never happen?

Neither. This is perfectly reasonable behaviour, side-effects or not.

assert can be considered syntactic sugar for this:

# assert expression
if assertions_enabled:
    if expression: raise AssertionError

If expression happens to have side-effects, the fact that it isn't evaluated
when asserts are disabled is no more surprising, or horrible, than the fact
that expression won't be evaluated here:

if False:
    print(expression)


(In Python's case, `assertions_enabled` is actually the read-only built-in
dunder variable __debug__.)



-- 
Steven



From rosuav at gmail.com  Fri Apr 10 09:41:54 2015
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 2015 23:41:54 +1000
Subject: Best search algorithm to find condition within a range
In-Reply-To: <5527cda8$0$12981$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
References: <2e3a3c01-20b3-4948-9b32-bd80ed46822b@googlegroups.com>
 <552460cc$0$13002$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <N_gVw.164921$sZ5.11899@fx14.am4>
 <876196cm1e.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <xurVw.125673$7_1.63712@fx15.am4>
 <87k2xlzknu.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <8738498qf7.fsf@dpt-info.u-strasbg.fr>
 <87fv89zd0m.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <87y4m1795n.fsf@dpt-info.u-strasbg.fr>
 <mailman.165.1428585562.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <874mopzarw.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <552696be$0$13012$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <mailman.169.1428593659.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <87y4m1b76f.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <5526b867$0$12985$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <mailman.178.1428602190.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <5527cda8$0$12981$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmpY83D+HzSGB47OMr4zF7zibHhxo0JJFiKr=aMGsPfrwA@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Apr 10, 2015 at 11:18 PM, Steven D'Aprano
<steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info> wrote:
> On Fri, 10 Apr 2015 03:56 am, Chris Angelico wrote:
>
>> On Fri, Apr 10, 2015 at 3:35 AM, Steven D'Aprano
>> <steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info> wrote:
>>> It's not so much the undefined behaviour part that gets me. That's bad
>>> enough. But the concept that having the compiler ignore what you write in
>>> the source code because you've accidentally hit some undefined part of
>>> the spec *is a feature* rather than a horrible, horrible design flaw that
>>> blows my mind.
>>
>> In Python, you can create an assert with a side effect. This is
>> something you should never do,
>
> "Never" is a bit strong. There's nothing wrong with:
>
>
> assert log("some message") or condition
>
> for example.
>
>
>> and the compiler is free to optimize that side effect out.
>
> Not really. The compiler is free to not execute the assertion at all, which
> is not the same thing. A Python compiler which determined that log() always
> returned None, and optimized the assertion to "assert condition", would be
> buggy.

All you're saying is that, if the compiler optimizes out the side
effect, it must also remove the assertion. Doesn't change the fact
that it's something it's allowed to do.

> Suppose you write this function in Python:
>
> def value_or_fallback(thingy):
>     print("The value of thingy is %d" % thingy)
>     return int(thingy) if thingy is not None else 42
>
>
> `value_or_fallback` is buggy, because %d of None is an error. In actual
> Python, the semantics of this are completely well defined: a runtime
> TypeError. But in BizarroPython, that operation is undefined behaviour. So
> the compiler can optimize that to:
>
> def value_or_fallback(thingy):
>     print("The value of thingy is %d" % thingy)
>     return int(thingy)
>
> BizarroPython can reason that if `thingy` is None, the first line (the print
> call) is already performing undefined behaviour, so the compiler can do
> anything, including act as if `thingy` is not None.

In other words, the definition of "undefined behaviour" is "something
the programmer will never do". So if one branch of a condition is
undefined, the compiler can rightly assume that you will never execute
that branch, and optimize it out. Here's a C++ example that I actually
ran into at one point, ported brutally to Python:

class TreeNode:
    def __init__(self, payload):
        self.left = self.right = None
        self.payload = payload
    def walk(self, func):
        if self.left: self.left.walk(func)
        func(self.payload)
        if self.right: self.right.walk(func)

(Omitting all the stuff about how they get linked together into a tree
as that's not significant here.)

Now, this works fine. But I thought to myself, there's duplication of
checks for null pointers - why not put that into just one place! And
wrote the walk function like this:

    def walk(self, func):
        if self is None: return
        self.left.walk(func)
        func(self.payload)
        self.right.walk(func)

(It doesn't look like much here, but imagine dozens of places
elsewhere as well that used to have to go "if node: node.walk(f)" and
now just go "node.walk(f)".)

In C++, a null pointer still has its proper type, so calling walk() on
it would indeed come through to this function, unlike in Python where
None is a completely separate type. But it's illegal to call methods
on null pointers, so the compiler quite correctly optimized out the
initial check. But try taking this just on its own, without the
explanatory lead-up; would you ever expect that a method would be
called with self set to None? Of course not. Sure you _could_, but it
doesn't make sense, so you wouldn't.

> To put it another way, the compiler knows that if thingy is None, the print
> call will crash before reaching the return call, so it can ignore the error
> checking around the return. If thingy is None, the error checking will
> never get the chance to run. If thingy isn't None, the error checking is
> superfluous. (If this reasoning seems dubious to you, it's because it is.)

No, it's not dubious reasoning. You've violated a contract with the
compiler by requesting something that's undefined, ergo all bets are
off.

> So far, this isn't too surprising. If we don't think too hard about it, we
> might even consider this to be reasonable behaviour. But now the undefined
> behaviour of `value_or_fallback` infects everything it touches, and allows
> BizarroPython free reign to brutalise your code with a rusty shovel.
>
>
> def unwitting(door_is_open):
>     if door_is_open:
>         walk_on_in()
>     else:
>        ring_bell()
>        # wait for the door to open using the fallback value
>        fallback = value_or_fallback(thingy)
>        wait_for_door_to_open(fallback)

What's thingy here? Is that meant to be None?

> BizarroPython can optimize this entire function to:
>
> def unwitting(door_is_open):
>     walk_on_in()

If you do indeed call value_or_fallback with None as its argument,
then yes, that's quite correct.

> Now let's start travelling in time:
> [chomp example]
>
> All this is well and good, if your intention was to crash faster. But if
> you're trying to debug the crash, you have lost a valuable debugging hint.
> If you thought you could debug your code by tracing it in your head, or on
> paper, you've got a nasty surprise waiting. If you reason that since the
> bell never gets rung, the bug causing the crash must be somewhere *before*
> the call to ring_bell, but that's not the case. The bug occurs after
> ring_bell, and propagates "backwards in time" to crash the application
> before reaching the buggy code.

This is where stuff gets distinctly weird, yes. Welcome to the
debugging of optimized code. All sorts of "obvious expectations" go
out the window. There's no guarantee that your code will be executed
in any semblance of the order it was written in, and things can affect
each other in ways that you wouldn't have predicted.

>> (At least, I think that's the case. Is it
>> legal for a Python implementation to fully evaluate asserts and then
>> simply not raise the exception?)
>
> The documented semantics of assertions in Python, like most (all?) other
> languages which have them, is that assertions either run or don't run. What
> doesn't happen is for them to run but suppress any exceptions. That would
> be pointless: all the expensive of running the test, without the benefit of
> seeing whether the test fails or not.

Of course it's pointless, but I was wondering whether or not it's
legal. I was assuming it wasn't legal, and you're supporting that
belief.

>> Take this example:
>>
>> def spam(lst):
>>     assert lst[0] < lst[1]
>>     # carry on with the rest of the code
>>
>> If lst is a Python list, this is side-effect free. But what if it
>> isn't? What if __getitem__ actually mutates the object? The assertion
>> can be dropped, and the getitem calls not made. Is that a horrible,
>> horrible design flaw in Python, or is it an ill-designed object that
>> does things that programmers should be allowed to assume never happen?
>
> Neither. This is perfectly reasonable behaviour, side-effects or not.
>
> assert can be considered syntactic sugar for this:
>
> # assert expression
> if assertions_enabled:
>     if expression: raise AssertionError

Yes, it's better defined. Doesn't change the fact that a lot of people
would be surprised if this happened.

And, in fact, *are* surprised when suppressing assertions breaks their
code. But it's not the suppression of assertions that broke their
code; their code was already broken. If your C code triggers any form
of undefined behaviour, *your code is already broken*. The compiler's
optimizations do not change this.

ChrisA


From nobody at nowhere.invalid  Fri Apr 10 10:18:32 2015
From: nobody at nowhere.invalid (Nobody)
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 2015 15:18:32 +0100
Subject: Help with pipes, buffering and pseudoterminals
References: <c9c407e4-4914-4f5d-8ff3-ae1ac083cb82@googlegroups.com>
 <20150406001109.GA1009@cskk.homeip.net>
 <mailman.76.1428380025.12925.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <pan.2015.04.10.14.18.32.282000@nowhere.invalid>

On Mon, 06 Apr 2015 21:13:41 -0700, Daniel Ellis wrote:

> As for the question ptys and C, no, I have no experience in that area.
> I've read a bit on the master/slave stuff, but I'm still finding it
> confusing.  The manpage for pty states that it creates a "pair" of virtual
> devices, one master and one slave.  It doesn't seem like these are simple
> file descriptors for stdin, stdout, and stderr, given that there is only
> one for the master and one for the slave, so I'm really not understanding
> what it means for these devices to be created.

A pseudo-tty (pty) is a pair of devices: master and slave. Opening
either of these devices will return a file descriptor. The devices can be
(and usually are) opened read-write (O_RDWR), yielding a descriptor which
can be both read and written to (unlike a pipe).

Typical usage is that the parent process opens the master device while the
child process opens the slave device and dup2()s the descriptor to
descriptors 0,1,2 (the child process is typically the leader of a new
session, meaning that the slave will become its controlling terminal). The
child then exec()s some program.

Whatever data the parent writes to the master, the child will receive when
it reads from the slave, and vice versa. So the pair of devices
collectively behave somewhat like a socket pair or a bidirectional pipe.
Except that the slave side "looks like" a tty, i.e. isatty() will return
1, tcsetattr() etc will work on it, input characters (sent from master to
slave) will be processed (backspace, Ctrl-C, Ctrl-Z, etc), and so on.

The main use for a pseudo-tty is for emulating a terminal, where the
emulation is either a GUI program (xterm etc) or a network connection
(telnet, ssh, etc). Using it to change the default buffering of
stdin/stdout/stdout stderr is something of a hack (and a rather complex
one), but it works.

There are two distinct mechanisms for implementing pseudo-ttys.

The BSD way is to have static device nodes for both master and slave devices.
The program attempts to open the master devices /dev/pty[p-za-z][0-9a-f]
in order (i.e. /dev/ptyp0 is first) until one succeeds. The corresponding
slave device has the same name but with "tty" instead of "pty".

The SysV way is to open /dev/ptmx. The returned descriptor is for a new 
master device. The slave is dynamically created within the /dev/pts
pseudo-filesystem; its name can be obtained by using the ptsname()
function.

The Python pty module should take care of this for you.



From rustompmody at gmail.com  Fri Apr 10 12:39:25 2015
From: rustompmody at gmail.com (Rustom Mody)
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 2015 09:39:25 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Best search algorithm to find condition within a range
In-Reply-To: <5526b867$0$12985$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
References: <2e3a3c01-20b3-4948-9b32-bd80ed46822b@googlegroups.com>
 <552460cc$0$13002$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <N_gVw.164921$sZ5.11899@fx14.am4>
 <876196cm1e.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net> <xurVw.125673$7_1.63712@fx15.am4>
 <87k2xlzknu.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net> <8738498qf7.fsf@dpt-info.u-strasbg.fr>
 <87fv89zd0m.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net> <87y4m1795n.fsf@dpt-info.u-strasbg.fr>
 <mailman.165.1428585562.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <874mopzarw.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <552696be$0$13012$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <mailman.169.1428593659.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <87y4m1b76f.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <5526b867$0$12985$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <01f558cb-4e04-467a-a7a2-d6d13d5c6aea@googlegroups.com>

On Thursday, April 9, 2015 at 11:05:54 PM UTC+5:30, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> On Fri, 10 Apr 2015 02:25 am, Marko Rauhamaa wrote:
> 
> > Chris Angelico:
> > 
> >> As far as it's concerned, it's impossible for a CPU register to
> >> arbitrarily change without notice. It's equally impossible for the
> >> addition of two positive signed integers to result in a negative
> >> integer.
> > 
> > The standard says that any program that takes a signed integer out of
> > its valid range is broken and deserves anything that happens to it.
> > 
> > I say it's the standard that is broken.
> 
> It's not so much the undefined behaviour part that gets me. That's bad
> enough. But the concept that having the compiler ignore what you write in
> the source code because you've accidentally hit some undefined part of the
> spec *is a feature* rather than a horrible, horrible design flaw that blows
> my mind.

There is something from Dijkstra (cant find the details ATM) that come to mind:

How should a programmer think of writing a program that contains an ? loop?
Imagine sitting in a room next to the computer... with no windows or doors...
Just the computer
When the programmer feeds the program to the computer he has to wait (that's WAIT) for the computer to print out the result before the  door opens.
And so if the machine 'hangs' so does the programmer!!

In short when you do what you shouldn't do, there's no limit to the penalty.

Dijkstra may strike many people as a nut, however I remember on the DOS machines
on which I grew up, if the program crashed so did the OS -- switching on/off
(the wall-plug!) was considered normal and acceptable behavior.
If you were not so lucky you could lose the contents of the disk.
And then there were horror stories of monitors getting fried by wrong refresh rates etc.


From sohcahtoa82 at gmail.com  Fri Apr 10 15:31:58 2015
From: sohcahtoa82 at gmail.com (sohcahtoa82 at gmail.com)
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 2015 12:31:58 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: try..except with empty exceptions
In-Reply-To: <64a75c32-e0ab-4ce0-9373-358c2669fe6e@googlegroups.com>
References: <64a75c32-e0ab-4ce0-9373-358c2669fe6e@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <785010c0-6bcc-46d7-b7e0-0ed062fabbc7@googlegroups.com>

On Friday, April 10, 2015 at 1:48:22 AM UTC-7, Pavel S wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> I noticed interesting behaviour. Since I don't have python3 installation here, I tested that on Python 2.7.
> 
> Well known feature is that try..except block can catch multiple exceptions listed in a tuple:
> 
> 
> exceptions = ( TypeError, ValueError )
> 
> try:
>     a, b = None
> except exceptions, e:
>     print 'Catched error:', e
> 
> 
> However when exceptions=(), then try..except block behaves as no try..except block.
> 
> 
> exceptions = ()
> 
> try:
>     a, b = None   # <--- the error will not be catched
> except exceptions, e:
>     print 'Catched error:', e
> 
> 
> I found use case for it, e.g. when I want to have a method with 'exceptions' argument:
> 
> 
> def catch_exceptions(exceptions=()):
>   try:
>      do_something()
>   except exceptions:
>      do_something_else()
> 
> 
> catch_exceptions()               # catches nothing
> catch_exceptions((TypeError,))   # catches TypeError
> 
> 
> I believe that behaviour is not documented. What you think?

It isn't document because it is expected.  Why would the exception get caught if you're not writing code to catch it?  If you write a function and pass it a tuple of exceptions to catch, I'm not sure why you would expect it to catch an exception not in the tuple.  Just because the tuple is empty doesn't mean that it should catch *everything* instead.  That would be counter-intuitive.


From davea at davea.name  Fri Apr 10 16:27:51 2015
From: davea at davea.name (Dave Angel)
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 2015 16:27:51 -0400
Subject: try..except with empty exceptions
In-Reply-To: <64a75c32-e0ab-4ce0-9373-358c2669fe6e@googlegroups.com>
References: <64a75c32-e0ab-4ce0-9373-358c2669fe6e@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <55283247.8020409@davea.name>

On 04/10/2015 04:48 AM, Pavel S wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I noticed interesting behaviour. Since I don't have python3 installation here, I tested that on Python 2.7.
>
> Well known feature is that try..except block can catch multiple exceptions listed in a tuple:
>
>
> exceptions = ( TypeError, ValueError )
>
> try:
>      a, b = None
> except exceptions, e:
>      print 'Catched error:', e
>
>
> However when exceptions=(), then try..except block behaves as no try..except block.
>
>
> exceptions = ()
>
> try:
>      a, b = None   # <--- the error will not be catched
> except exceptions, e:
>      print 'Catched error:', e
>
>
> I found use case for it, e.g. when I want to have a method with 'exceptions' argument:
>
>
> def catch_exceptions(exceptions=()):
>    try:
>       do_something()
>    except exceptions:
>       do_something_else()
>
>
> catch_exceptions()               # catches nothing
> catch_exceptions((TypeError,))   # catches TypeError
>
>
> I believe that behaviour is not documented. What you think?
>

It's no more surprising than a for loop over an empty tuple or empty 
list.  There's nothing to do, so you do nothing.



-- 
DaveA


From albert at spenarnc.xs4all.nl  Fri Apr 10 19:10:50 2015
From: albert at spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst)
Date: 10 Apr 2015 23:10:50 GMT
Subject: Sudoku solver
References: <87r3sdnw5t.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <87twx8amww.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <mailman.159.1427314248.10327.python-list@python.org>
 <87iodoakft.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
Message-ID: <5528587a$0$23291$e4fe514c@dreader34.news.xs4all.nl>

In article <87iodoakft.fsf at elektro.pacujo.net>,
Marko Rauhamaa  <marko at pacujo.net> wrote:
>Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly at gmail.com>:
>
>> The test puzzle that you posted has 23 values already filled in. How
>> does it perform on harder puzzles with only 17 clues (the proven
>> minimum)? One would expect it to be around a million times slower.
>
>Just try it. The example had a minimum of clues (drop one clue and
>you'll get multiple solutions).
>
><URL: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/science/science-news/9359579/W
>orlds-hardest-sudoku-can-you-crack-it.html> mentions this puzzle:
>
>========================================================================
>8 . . . . . . . .
>. . 3 6 . . . . .
>. 7 . . 9 . 2 . .
>. 5 . . . 7 . . .
>. . . . 4 5 7 . .
>. . . 1 . . . 3 .
>. . 1 . . . . 6 8
>. . 8 5 . . . 1 .
>. 9 . . . . 4 . .
>========================================================================
>
>It takes about 2 seconds for my Python program to find the answer but it
>spends a total of 110 seconds to exhaust the problem space.
>
>The analogous C program finished the whole thing in 200 milliseconds.

That is a more reasonable time for a realistic algorithm. This puzzle
takes 255 ms in a program that I wrote in 2008 in Forth.

>
>
>Marko

Groetjes Albert
-- 
Albert van der Horst, UTRECHT,THE NETHERLANDS
Economic growth -- being exponential -- ultimately falters.
albert at spe&ar&c.xs4all.nl &=n http://home.hccnet.nl/a.w.m.van.der.horst



From ravas at outlook.com  Fri Apr 10 19:37:28 2015
From: ravas at outlook.com (ravas)
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 2015 16:37:28 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: find all multiplicands and multipliers for a number
Message-ID: <890bd388-f50a-4dec-9ef5-27715427472a@googlegroups.com>

def m_and_m(dividend):
    rlist = []
    dm = divmod
    end = (dividend // 2) + 1
    for divisor in range(1, end):
        q, r = dm(dividend, divisor)
        if r is 0:
            rlist.append((divisor, q))
    return rlist

print(m_and_m(999))
---
output: [(1, 999), (3, 333), (9, 111), (27, 37), (37, 27), (111, 9), (333, 3)]
---

How do we describe this function? 
Does it have an established name?
What would you call it?
Does 'Rosetta Code' have it or something that uses it?
Can it be written to be more efficient?
What is the most efficient way to exclude the superfluous inverse tuples?
Can it be written for decimal numbers as input and/or output?

Thank you!


From davea at davea.name  Fri Apr 10 21:06:15 2015
From: davea at davea.name (Dave Angel)
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 2015 21:06:15 -0400
Subject: find all multiplicands and multipliers for a number
In-Reply-To: <890bd388-f50a-4dec-9ef5-27715427472a@googlegroups.com>
References: <890bd388-f50a-4dec-9ef5-27715427472a@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <55287387.4070501@davea.name>

On 04/10/2015 07:37 PM, ravas wrote:
> def m_and_m(dividend):
>      rlist = []
>      dm = divmod
>      end = (dividend // 2) + 1
>      for divisor in range(1, end):
>          q, r = dm(dividend, divisor)
>          if r is 0:
>              rlist.append((divisor, q))
>      return rlist
>
> print(m_and_m(999))
> ---
> output: [(1, 999), (3, 333), (9, 111), (27, 37), (37, 27), (111, 9), (333, 3)]
> ---
>
> How do we describe this function?
> Does it have an established name?
> What would you call it?
> Does 'Rosetta Code' have it or something that uses it?
> Can it be written to be more efficient?
> What is the most efficient way to exclude the superfluous inverse tuples?
> Can it be written for decimal numbers as input and/or output?
>
> Thank you!
>

I'd call those factors of the original number.  For completeness, I'd 
include (999,1) at the end.

If it were my problem, I'd be looking for only prime factors.  Then if 
someone wanted all the factors, they could derive them from the primes, 
by multiplying all possible combinations.

The program can be sped up most obviously by stopping as soon as you get 
a tuple where divisor > q.  At that point, you can just repeat all the 
items, reversing divisor and q for each item.  Of course, now I notice 
you want to eliminate them.  So just break out of the loop when divisor > q.

You can gain some more speed by calculating the square root of the 
dividend, and stopping when you get there.

But the real place to get improvement is to only divide by primes, 
rather than every possible integer.  And once you've done the division, 
let q be the next value for dividend.  So you'll get a list like

[3, 3, 3, 37]

for the value 999

See:
http://rosettacode.org/wiki/Factors_of_an_integer#Python


-- 
DaveA


From d at davea.name  Fri Apr 10 21:16:57 2015
From: d at davea.name (Dave Angel)
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 2015 21:16:57 -0400
Subject: find all multiplicands and multipliers for a number
In-Reply-To: <55287387.4070501@davea.name>
References: <890bd388-f50a-4dec-9ef5-27715427472a@googlegroups.com>
 <55287387.4070501@davea.name>
Message-ID: <55287609.5040105@davea.name>

On 04/10/2015 09:06 PM, Dave Angel wrote:
> On 04/10/2015 07:37 PM, ravas wrote:
>> def m_and_m(dividend):
>>      rlist = []
>>      dm = divmod
>>      end = (dividend // 2) + 1
>>      for divisor in range(1, end):
>>          q, r = dm(dividend, divisor)
>>          if r is 0:
>>              rlist.append((divisor, q))
>>      return rlist
>>
>> print(m_and_m(999))
>> ---
>> output: [(1, 999), (3, 333), (9, 111), (27, 37), (37, 27), (111, 9),
>> (333, 3)]
>> ---
>>
>> How do we describe this function?
>> Does it have an established name?
>> What would you call it?
>> Does 'Rosetta Code' have it or something that uses it?
>> Can it be written to be more efficient?
>> What is the most efficient way to exclude the superfluous inverse tuples?
>> Can it be written for decimal numbers as input and/or output?
>>
>> Thank you!
>>
>
> I'd call those factors of the original number.  For completeness, I'd
> include (999,1) at the end.
>
> If it were my problem, I'd be looking for only prime factors.  Then if
> someone wanted all the factors, they could derive them from the primes,
> by multiplying all possible combinations.
>
> The program can be sped up most obviously by stopping as soon as you get
> a tuple where divisor > q.  At that point, you can just repeat all the
> items, reversing divisor and q for each item.  Of course, now I notice
> you want to eliminate them.  So just break out of the loop when divisor
>  > q.
>
> You can gain some more speed by calculating the square root of the
> dividend, and stopping when you get there.
>
> But the real place to get improvement is to only divide by primes,
> rather than every possible integer.  And once you've done the division,
> let q be the next value for dividend.  So you'll get a list like
>
> [3, 3, 3, 37]
>
> for the value 999
>
> See:
> http://rosettacode.org/wiki/Factors_of_an_integer#Python
>
>
And

http://rosettacode.org/wiki/Prime_decomposition#Python

There the function that you should grok is  decompose()

-- 
DaveA


From no.email at nospam.invalid  Fri Apr 10 21:28:01 2015
From: no.email at nospam.invalid (Paul Rubin)
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 2015 18:28:01 -0700
Subject: find all multiplicands and multipliers for a number
References: <890bd388-f50a-4dec-9ef5-27715427472a@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <87r3rrbgim.fsf@jester.gateway.sonic.net>

ravas <ravas at outlook.com> writes:
>     for divisor in range(1, end):
>         q, r = dm(dividend, divisor)
>         if r is 0:
>             rlist.append((divisor, q))

Use r == 0 instead of r is 0 there.  "r is 0" is object identity that
might happen to work but that's an implementation detail in the
interpreter.

> output: [(1, 999), (3, 333), (9, 111), (27, 37), (37, 27), (111, 9), (333, 3)]

> How do we describe this function? 

Listing the divisors of n

> Does it have an established name?

It's closely related to factoring.  The number of factors as a function
of n is called the Euler totient function, 

> What would you call it?

Enumerating the divisors.  Easier to do if you know the factors.

> Does 'Rosetta Code' have it or something that uses it?

Don't know.  Try their search function looking for factoring.

> Can it be written to be more efficient?

Yes, definitely.  Simplest is make a list of the factors and then
generate combinations of them.  Factor the number by trial division,
dividing out each factor as you find it, stopping when you get above the
square root of whatever is left.

There are fancier methods to factor even more efficiently and whole
books have been written about them, but the above is a start.

You might like www.projecteuler.net which has lots more of these
math-oriented exercises, though the later ones get pretty hard.


From steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info  Fri Apr 10 21:42:37 2015
From: steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: Sat, 11 Apr 2015 11:42:37 +1000
Subject: try..except with empty exceptions
References: <64a75c32-e0ab-4ce0-9373-358c2669fe6e@googlegroups.com>
 <785010c0-6bcc-46d7-b7e0-0ed062fabbc7@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <55287c0d$0$13000$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

On Sat, 11 Apr 2015 05:31 am, sohcahtoa82 at gmail.com wrote:

> It isn't document because it is expected.  Why would the exception get
> caught if you're not writing code to catch it?  If you write a function
> and pass it a tuple of exceptions to catch, I'm not sure why you would
> expect it to catch an exception not in the tuple.  Just because the tuple
> is empty doesn't mean that it should catch *everything* instead.  That
> would be counter-intuitive.

Really? I have to say, I expected it.


try:
    spam()
except This, That:
    # Implicitly a tuple of two exceptions.
    pass


Compare:

try:
    spam()
except:
    # Implicitly an empty tuple.
    pass


I'm not surprised that it fails, especially in Python 2 before
the "except ... as err" syntax was available, but the OP is not alone in
thinking that an empty tuple should catch everything.


I'm fairly dubious about catching everything, that sounds like a good way to
hide bugs, but if you need to catch everything, using Exception is the
usual way to do it.




-- 
Steven



From alexglaros at gmail.com  Fri Apr 10 21:56:04 2015
From: alexglaros at gmail.com (alexglaros at gmail.com)
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 2015 18:56:04 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: wikipedia data sets
Message-ID: <01d8bdc9-97f6-4974-9093-01cacae29231@googlegroups.com>

anyone know anything about downloading wikipedia data sets?

are there any data field descriptions?

am searching for table of all government organizations.  

While there may not be specific wikipedia fields indicating whether an organization is a government entity or not, there may be a URL field that ends .gov or other indicators.

thanks,

Alex Glaros


From rustompmody at gmail.com  Fri Apr 10 21:56:15 2015
From: rustompmody at gmail.com (Rustom Mody)
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 2015 18:56:15 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: try..except with empty exceptions
In-Reply-To: <64a75c32-e0ab-4ce0-9373-358c2669fe6e@googlegroups.com>
References: <64a75c32-e0ab-4ce0-9373-358c2669fe6e@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <fd7df6dc-e18e-488f-8258-caa38ee6cd31@googlegroups.com>

On Friday, April 10, 2015 at 2:18:22 PM UTC+5:30, Pavel S wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> I noticed interesting behaviour. Since I don't have python3 installation here, I tested that on Python 2.7.
> 
> Well known feature is that try..except block can catch multiple exceptions listed in a tuple:
> 
> 
> exceptions = ( TypeError, ValueError )
> 
> try:
>     a, b = None
> except exceptions, e:
>     print 'Catched error:', e
> 
> 
> However when exceptions=(), then try..except block behaves as no try..except block.
> 
> 
> exceptions = ()
> 
> try:
>     a, b = None   # <--- the error will not be catched
> except exceptions, e:
>     print 'Catched error:', e
> 
> 
> I found use case for it, e.g. when I want to have a method with 'exceptions' argument:
> 
> 
> def catch_exceptions(exceptions=()):
>   try:
>      do_something()
>   except exceptions:
>      do_something_else()
> 
> 
> catch_exceptions()               # catches nothing
> catch_exceptions((TypeError,))   # catches TypeError
> 
> 
> I believe that behaviour is not documented. What you think?

As others have pointed out: "You asked for it; you got it; what's the issue?"

Nevertheless a tentative +1 from me on the suggestions ?

except :

catches everything 

except ():

catches nothing --- which is brittle to say the least.

Also given this sort of lines in the docs (2.7 tutorial):

-----------------------------
... except (RuntimeError, TypeError, NameError):
...     pass

Note that the parentheses around this tuple are required, because except
ValueError, e: was the syntax used for what is normally written as except
ValueError as e: in modern Python (described below). The old syntax is still 
supported for backwards compatibility. This means except RuntimeError, 
TypeError is not equivalent to except (RuntimeError, TypeError): but to except 
RuntimeError as TypeError: which is not what you want.
------------------------------------

there's already some versioning related brittleness around except.


From steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info  Fri Apr 10 22:04:36 2015
From: steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: Sat, 11 Apr 2015 12:04:36 +1000
Subject: find all multiplicands and multipliers for a number
References: <890bd388-f50a-4dec-9ef5-27715427472a@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.209.1428714381.12925.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <55288135$0$12997$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

On Sat, 11 Apr 2015 11:06 am, Dave Angel wrote:

> But the real place to get improvement is to only divide by primes,
> rather than every possible integer. ?And once you've done the division,
> let q be the next value for dividend. ?So you'll get a list like
> 
> [3, 3, 3, 37]
> 
> for the value 999


Prime factorization is a *hard* problem. If it wasn't, most of modern
technology that relies on encryption (like https, ssh, internet banking
etc.) would be trivially broken.

But for what it is worth, my pyprimes library can return the prime
factorization of numbers:

py> import pyprimes.factors
py> pyprimes.factors.factorise(1234567890)
[2, 3, 3, 5, 3607, 3803]
py> pyprimes.factors.factorise(9753124680)
[2, 2, 2, 3, 3, 3, 5, 13, 191, 3637L]

It may be a bit slow for very large numbers. On my computer, this takes 20
seconds:

py> pyprimes.factors.factorise(2**111+1)
[3, 3, 1777, 3331, 17539, 25781083, 107775231312019L]


but that is the nature of factorising large numbers.


http://code.google.com/p/pyprimes/source/browse/



-- 
Steven



From no.email at nospam.invalid  Fri Apr 10 22:17:29 2015
From: no.email at nospam.invalid (Paul Rubin)
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 2015 19:17:29 -0700
Subject: wikipedia data sets
References: <01d8bdc9-97f6-4974-9093-01cacae29231@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <87mw2fbe86.fsf@jester.gateway.sonic.net>

alexglaros at gmail.com writes:
> anyone know anything about downloading wikipedia data sets?

They are at dumps.wikimedia.org

> are there any data field descriptions?

I think there is some old and light documentation on that site, but
mostly you can just look at the files and see where stuff is.

> am searching for table of all government organizations.  

Try wikidata.org rather than wikipedia, but even that might not get you
quite what you want.


From davea at davea.name  Fri Apr 10 22:23:14 2015
From: davea at davea.name (Dave Angel)
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 2015 22:23:14 -0400
Subject: try..except with empty exceptions
In-Reply-To: <55287c0d$0$13000$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
References: <64a75c32-e0ab-4ce0-9373-358c2669fe6e@googlegroups.com>
 <785010c0-6bcc-46d7-b7e0-0ed062fabbc7@googlegroups.com>
 <55287c0d$0$13000$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <55288592.9050403@davea.name>

On 04/10/2015 09:42 PM, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> On Sat, 11 Apr 2015 05:31 am, sohcahtoa82 at gmail.com wrote:
>
>> It isn't document because it is expected.  Why would the exception get
>> caught if you're not writing code to catch it?  If you write a function
>> and pass it a tuple of exceptions to catch, I'm not sure why you would
>> expect it to catch an exception not in the tuple.  Just because the tuple
>> is empty doesn't mean that it should catch *everything* instead.  That
>> would be counter-intuitive.
>
> Really? I have to say, I expected it.
>
>

I'm astounded at your expectation.  That's like saying a for loop on an 
empty list ought to loop on all possible objects in the universe.

The tuple lists those exceptions you're interested in, and they are 
tried, presumably in order, from that collection.  If none of those 
match, then the logic will advance to the next except clause.  If the 
tuple is empty, then clearly none will match.

> try:
>      spam()
> except This, That:
>      # Implicitly a tuple of two exceptions.
>      pass
>
>
> Compare:
>
> try:
>      spam()
> except:
>      # Implicitly an empty tuple.

No, an omitted item is not the same as an empty tuple.  If it were, then 
we wouldn't have the problem of bare excepts, which are so tempting to 
novices.  There's plenty of precedent in many languages for a missing 
item being distinct from anything one could actually supply.

When there's no tuple specified, it's a different syntax, and the 
semantics are specified separately.



-- 
DaveA


From rustompmody at gmail.com  Fri Apr 10 22:38:12 2015
From: rustompmody at gmail.com (Rustom Mody)
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 2015 19:38:12 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: try..except with empty exceptions
In-Reply-To: <mailman.211.1428718999.12925.python-list@python.org>
References: <64a75c32-e0ab-4ce0-9373-358c2669fe6e@googlegroups.com>
 <785010c0-6bcc-46d7-b7e0-0ed062fabbc7@googlegroups.com>
 <55287c0d$0$13000$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <mailman.211.1428718999.12925.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <d1e58c04-9c96-4fb8-a9ce-f56b9cdcd273@googlegroups.com>

On Saturday, April 11, 2015 at 7:53:31 AM UTC+5:30, Dave Angel wrote:
> On 04/10/2015 09:42 PM, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> > On Sat, 11 Apr 2015 05:31 am, sohcahtoa82 wrote:
> >
> >> It isn't document because it is expected.  Why would the exception get
> >> caught if you're not writing code to catch it?  If you write a function
> >> and pass it a tuple of exceptions to catch, I'm not sure why you would
> >> expect it to catch an exception not in the tuple.  Just because the tuple
> >> is empty doesn't mean that it should catch *everything* instead.  That
> >> would be counter-intuitive.
> >
> > Really? I have to say, I expected it.
> >
> >
> 
> I'm astounded at your expectation.  That's like saying a for loop on an 
> empty list ought to loop on all possible objects in the universe.

To work, this analogy should also have two python syntaxes like this:

"Normal" for-loop:
for var in iterable:
  suite

"Empty" for-loop:
for:
  suite

[Sorry Steven? didn't notice you were agreeing with me?
a rare privilege ?
]


From davea at davea.name  Fri Apr 10 23:46:43 2015
From: davea at davea.name (Dave Angel)
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 2015 23:46:43 -0400
Subject: try..except with empty exceptions
In-Reply-To: <d1e58c04-9c96-4fb8-a9ce-f56b9cdcd273@googlegroups.com>
References: <64a75c32-e0ab-4ce0-9373-358c2669fe6e@googlegroups.com>
 <785010c0-6bcc-46d7-b7e0-0ed062fabbc7@googlegroups.com>
 <55287c0d$0$13000$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <mailman.211.1428718999.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <d1e58c04-9c96-4fb8-a9ce-f56b9cdcd273@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <55289923.2080906@davea.name>

On 04/10/2015 10:38 PM, Rustom Mody wrote:
> On Saturday, April 11, 2015 at 7:53:31 AM UTC+5:30, Dave Angel wrote:
>> On 04/10/2015 09:42 PM, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
>>> On Sat, 11 Apr 2015 05:31 am, sohcahtoa82 wrote:
>>>
>>>> It isn't document because it is expected.  Why would the exception get
>>>> caught if you're not writing code to catch it?  If you write a function
>>>> and pass it a tuple of exceptions to catch, I'm not sure why you would
>>>> expect it to catch an exception not in the tuple.  Just because the tuple
>>>> is empty doesn't mean that it should catch *everything* instead.  That
>>>> would be counter-intuitive.
>>>
>>> Really? I have to say, I expected it.
>>>
>>>
>>
>> I'm astounded at your expectation.  That's like saying a for loop on an
>> empty list ought to loop on all possible objects in the universe.
>
> To work, this analogy should also have two python syntaxes like this:
>
> "Normal" for-loop:
> for var in iterable:
>    suite
>
> "Empty" for-loop:
> for:
>    suite
>

That tells me nothing about your opinions.  What did you mean by the 
phrase "to work"?  My analogy already works.  The for loop on an empty 
list loops zero times.  Just like try/except on an empty tuple catches 
zero exception types.

As for the separate syntax, that might be an acceptable extension to 
Python.  But it already has a convention for an infinite loop, which is
      while True:
I'm pretty sure do{} works as an infinite loop in C, but perhaps I'm 
remembering some other language where you could omit the conditional.





-- 
DaveA


From rustompmody at gmail.com  Sat Apr 11 00:17:21 2015
From: rustompmody at gmail.com (Rustom Mody)
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 2015 21:17:21 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: try..except with empty exceptions
In-Reply-To: <mailman.212.1428724013.12925.python-list@python.org>
References: <64a75c32-e0ab-4ce0-9373-358c2669fe6e@googlegroups.com>
 <785010c0-6bcc-46d7-b7e0-0ed062fabbc7@googlegroups.com>
 <55287c0d$0$13000$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <mailman.211.1428718999.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <d1e58c04-9c96-4fb8-a9ce-f56b9cdcd273@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.212.1428724013.12925.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <571a2fb7-ee1b-4144-9d90-26a96c767ec5@googlegroups.com>

On Saturday, April 11, 2015 at 9:17:16 AM UTC+5:30, Dave Angel wrote:
> On 04/10/2015 10:38 PM, Rustom Mody wrote:
> > On Saturday, April 11, 2015 at 7:53:31 AM UTC+5:30, Dave Angel wrote:
> >> On 04/10/2015 09:42 PM, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> >>> On Sat, 11 Apr 2015 05:31 am, sohcahtoa82 wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> It isn't document because it is expected.  Why would the exception get
> >>>> caught if you're not writing code to catch it?  If you write a function
> >>>> and pass it a tuple of exceptions to catch, I'm not sure why you would
> >>>> expect it to catch an exception not in the tuple.  Just because the tuple
> >>>> is empty doesn't mean that it should catch *everything* instead.  That
> >>>> would be counter-intuitive.
> >>>
> >>> Really? I have to say, I expected it.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >> I'm astounded at your expectation.  That's like saying a for loop on an
> >> empty list ought to loop on all possible objects in the universe.
> >
> > To work, this analogy should also have two python syntaxes like this:
> >
> > "Normal" for-loop:
> > for var in iterable:
> >    suite
> >
> > "Empty" for-loop:
> > for:
> >    suite
> >
> 
> That tells me nothing about your opinions.  What did you mean by the 
> phrase "to work"?

Your analogy is "for loop on an empty list ought to loop on all possible
objects in the universe"
This seemingly works as a demo of a ridiculous expectation
because there is only one pattern of for-loop
for var in iterable:

In the case of exceptions we have two patterns
except e-tuple:
and
except: 
with the second having a wildly different semantics from the first


From rustompmody at gmail.com  Sat Apr 11 00:39:24 2015
From: rustompmody at gmail.com (Rustom Mody)
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 2015 21:39:24 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: try..except with empty exceptions
In-Reply-To: <571a2fb7-ee1b-4144-9d90-26a96c767ec5@googlegroups.com>
References: <64a75c32-e0ab-4ce0-9373-358c2669fe6e@googlegroups.com>
 <785010c0-6bcc-46d7-b7e0-0ed062fabbc7@googlegroups.com>
 <55287c0d$0$13000$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <mailman.211.1428718999.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <d1e58c04-9c96-4fb8-a9ce-f56b9cdcd273@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.212.1428724013.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <571a2fb7-ee1b-4144-9d90-26a96c767ec5@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <01bae820-c75c-4879-b009-3a6f0ad50a41@googlegroups.com>

On Saturday, April 11, 2015 at 9:47:36 AM UTC+5:30, Rustom Mody wrote:
> On Saturday, April 11, 2015 at 9:17:16 AM UTC+5:30, Dave Angel wrote:
> > On 04/10/2015 10:38 PM, Rustom Mody wrote:
> > > On Saturday, April 11, 2015 at 7:53:31 AM UTC+5:30, Dave Angel wrote:
> > >> On 04/10/2015 09:42 PM, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> > >>> On Sat, 11 Apr 2015 05:31 am, sohcahtoa82 wrote:
> > >>>
> > >>>> It isn't document because it is expected.  Why would the exception get
> > >>>> caught if you're not writing code to catch it?  If you write a function
> > >>>> and pass it a tuple of exceptions to catch, I'm not sure why you would
> > >>>> expect it to catch an exception not in the tuple.  Just because the tuple
> > >>>> is empty doesn't mean that it should catch *everything* instead.  That
> > >>>> would be counter-intuitive.
> > >>>
> > >>> Really? I have to say, I expected it.
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>
> > >> I'm astounded at your expectation.  That's like saying a for loop on an
> > >> empty list ought to loop on all possible objects in the universe.
> > >
> > > To work, this analogy should also have two python syntaxes like this:
> > >
> > > "Normal" for-loop:
> > > for var in iterable:
> > >    suite
> > >
> > > "Empty" for-loop:
> > > for:
> > >    suite
> > >
> > 
> > That tells me nothing about your opinions.  What did you mean by the 
> > phrase "to work"?
> 
> Your analogy is "for loop on an empty list ought to loop on all possible
> objects in the universe"
> This seemingly works as a demo of a ridiculous expectation
> because there is only one pattern of for-loop
> for var in iterable:
> 
> In the case of exceptions we have two patterns
> except e-tuple:
> and
> except: 
> with the second having a wildly different semantics from the first

IOW:
OP is surprised that except (): is a no-op
The real surprise is that except: is valid syntax with questionable semantics


From stephen_tucker at sil.org  Sat Apr 11 01:11:11 2015
From: stephen_tucker at sil.org (Stephen Tucker)
Date: Sat, 11 Apr 2015 06:11:11 +0100
Subject: find all multiplicands and multipliers for a number
In-Reply-To: <55288135$0$12997$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
References: <890bd388-f50a-4dec-9ef5-27715427472a@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.209.1428714381.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <55288135$0$12997$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <CAP=-cKXS0YADvOTjKS9iC68s1hMZMOq7VAiuzSoJuC_Yd78+ew@mail.gmail.com>

Dario Alpern has written a program that uses the Elliptic Curve Method
(ECM) for factorising a number. ECM is one of the _very_ fast methods for
finding the prime factors of a number. He has even offered the code for his
program. You could have a go at using or converting his code to do what you
are wanting to do. The URL for this is

http://www.alpertron.com.ar/ECM.HTM

This program found the prime factors of  2^111+1  in less than 1 second on
my computer. (And that is the string I gave it.)

What has been said by previous contributors about the difficulty of
factorising numbers is all true. However, there are some relatively fast
algorithms out there. Try searching for

Number Field Sieve
Quadratic Number Field Sieve

and see where they take you.



On Sat, Apr 11, 2015 at 3:04 AM, Steven D'Aprano <
steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info> wrote:

> On Sat, 11 Apr 2015 11:06 am, Dave Angel wrote:
>
> > But the real place to get improvement is to only divide by primes,
> > rather than every possible integer.  And once you've done the division,
> > let q be the next value for dividend.  So you'll get a list like
> >
> > [3, 3, 3, 37]
> >
> > for the value 999
>
>
> Prime factorization is a *hard* problem. If it wasn't, most of modern
> technology that relies on encryption (like https, ssh, internet banking
> etc.) would be trivially broken.
>
> But for what it is worth, my pyprimes library can return the prime
> factorization of numbers:
>
> py> import pyprimes.factors
> py> pyprimes.factors.factorise(1234567890)
> [2, 3, 3, 5, 3607, 3803]
> py> pyprimes.factors.factorise(9753124680)
> [2, 2, 2, 3, 3, 3, 5, 13, 191, 3637L]
>
> It may be a bit slow for very large numbers. On my computer, this takes 20
> seconds:
>
> py> pyprimes.factors.factorise(2**111+1)
> [3, 3, 1777, 3331, 17539, 25781083, 107775231312019L]
>
>
> but that is the nature of factorising large numbers.
>
>
> http://code.google.com/p/pyprimes/source/browse/
>
>
>
> --
> Steven
>
> --
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/attachments/20150411/90d6e184/attachment.html>

From dieter at handshake.de  Sat Apr 11 01:39:23 2015
From: dieter at handshake.de (dieter)
Date: Sat, 11 Apr 2015 07:39:23 +0200
Subject: Exception Handling
References: <b6461fc8-a18b-4d61-86f9-65370b0a149d@googlegroups.com>
 <1cd0a97d-96c7-4ee6-9cfe-c0e90b9baa55@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <87k2xj2ph0.fsf@handshake.de>

Palpandi <palpandi111 at gmail.com> writes:

> Thanks for your responses. And I have one more question.
> This is the situation. A python application which reads data from one .xml file and generates some other file. Here what kind of exceptions occur?

Ideally, you would not get any exceptions.

In the not ideal case, you may get exceptions from the XML parser
(in case, your XML input file is not valid), the "os" module
(for permission or filesystem related problems) and potentially
exceptions (such as "AttributeError") from your own program logic
(in case it would be faulty).

I support Chris' recommendation to not care about exceptions intially
(as they are exceptions - and do not occur frequently) and
decide what to do should they really occur.



From no.email at nospam.invalid  Sat Apr 11 02:08:50 2015
From: no.email at nospam.invalid (Paul Rubin)
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 2015 23:08:50 -0700
Subject: find all multiplicands and multipliers for a number
References: <890bd388-f50a-4dec-9ef5-27715427472a@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.209.1428714381.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <55288135$0$12997$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <87egnrb3il.fsf@jester.gateway.sonic.net>

Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info> writes:
> It may be a bit slow for very large numbers. On my computer, this takes 20
> seconds:
> py> pyprimes.factors.factorise(2**111+1)
> [3, 3, 1777, 3331, 17539, 25781083, 107775231312019L]

This takes about 4 seconds on a Intel(R) Core(TM) i5-3230M CPU @ 2.60GHz
laptop (64 bit linux):

import itertools, time

def candidates():
    yield 2
    yield 3
    for i in itertools.count(5,6):
        yield i
        yield i+2

def fac(n):
    for c in candidates():
        if c*c > n:
            yield n
            break
        while n%c == 0:
            yield c
            n /= c

t0 = time.time()
print list(fac(2**111+1))
print time.time() - t0


From palpandi111 at gmail.com  Sat Apr 11 02:50:48 2015
From: palpandi111 at gmail.com (Palpandi)
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 2015 23:50:48 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Dependency Injection
Message-ID: <5309a34a-c78c-4e9b-a117-628caa10fba9@googlegroups.com>

Hi all,

Can anyone explain about the dependency injection concept in python?

I have a class A. A is used in all other classes(B, C, D, ..). Is it good to use dependency injection concept in this situation or else any other suggestions? 

Thanks in advance.


From steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info  Sat Apr 11 03:11:01 2015
From: steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: Sat, 11 Apr 2015 17:11:01 +1000
Subject: try..except with empty exceptions
References: <64a75c32-e0ab-4ce0-9373-358c2669fe6e@googlegroups.com>
 <785010c0-6bcc-46d7-b7e0-0ed062fabbc7@googlegroups.com>
 <55287c0d$0$13000$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <mailman.211.1428718999.12925.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <5528c906$0$12994$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

On Sat, 11 Apr 2015 12:23 pm, Dave Angel wrote:

> On 04/10/2015 09:42 PM, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
>> On Sat, 11 Apr 2015 05:31 am, sohcahtoa82 at gmail.com wrote:
>>
>>> It isn't document because it is expected.  Why would the exception get
>>> caught if you're not writing code to catch it?  If you write a function
>>> and pass it a tuple of exceptions to catch, I'm not sure why you would
>>> expect it to catch an exception not in the tuple.  Just because the
>>> tuple
>>> is empty doesn't mean that it should catch *everything* instead.  That
>>> would be counter-intuitive.
>>
>> Really? I have to say, I expected it.
>>
>>
> 
> I'm astounded at your expectation.  That's like saying a for loop on an
> empty list ought to loop on all possible objects in the universe.

Not really.

If we wrote:

    for x in:
        # Missing sequence leads to an infinite loop

*then* your analogy would be excellent, but it isn't. With for loops, we
iterate over each item in the sequence, hence an empty sequence means we
don't iterate at all.

But with try...except, an empty exception list means to catch *everything*,
not nothing:

try: ...
except a,b,c: # catches a, b, c

try: ...
except a,b: # catches a, b

try: ...
except a: # catches a

try: ...
except: # catches EVERYTHING, not nothing


Putting (a, b, c) into a tuple shouldn't make a difference, and it doesn't,
unless the tuple is empty. That surprised me.

t = a, b, c
try:
except t:  # same as except a,b,c

t = a, b
try:
except t:  # same as except a,b

t = a,
try:
except t:  # same as except a

t = ()
try: 
except t:  # NOT THE SAME as bare except.


I can see the logic behind the current behaviour. If you implement except
clauses like this pseudo-code:


for exc in exceptions:
    if raised_exception matches exc: catch it


then an empty tuple will naturally lead to nothing being caught. That
doesn't mean it isn't surprising from the perspective that an empty
exception list (i.e. a bare except) should be analogous to an empty tuple.


> The tuple lists those exceptions you're interested in, and they are
> tried, presumably in order, from that collection.  If none of those
> match, then the logic will advance to the next except clause.  If the
> tuple is empty, then clearly none will match.

Yes, that makes sense, and I agree that it is reasonable behaviour from one
perspective. But its also reasonable to treat "except ():" as analogous to
a bare except.

[...]
>> try:
>>      spam()
>> except:
>>      # Implicitly an empty tuple.
> 
> No, an omitted item is not the same as an empty tuple.

You are correct about Python as it actually is, but it could have been
designed so that except (): was equivalent to a bare except.


> If it were, then 
> we wouldn't have the problem of bare excepts, which are so tempting to
> novices.  There's plenty of precedent in many languages for a missing
> item being distinct from anything one could actually supply.

Let us put aside the fact that some people misuse bare excepts, and allow
that there are some uses for it. Now, in Python 2.6 and later, you can
catch everything by catching BaseException. But in older versions, you
could raise strings as well, and the only way to catch everything is with a
bare except.

If you want to write a function that takes a list of things to catch,
defaulting to "everything", in Python 2.6+ we can write:

def spam(things_to_catch=BaseException):
    try:
        do_stuff()
    except things_to_catch:
        handle_exception()


but in older versions you have to write this:

def spam(things_to_catch=None):
    if things_to_catch is None:
        try:
            do_stuff()
        except:
            handle_exception()
    else:
        try:
            do_stuff()
        except things_to_catch:
            handle_exception()


This violates Don't Repeat Yourself. Any time you have "a missing item being
distinct from anything one could actually supply", you have a poor design.

Anyway, in modern Python (2.6 onwards), now that string exceptions are gone,
you can supply something to catch everything. Or nothing, for that matter:

BaseException  # catch everything
Exception  # catch errors
(A, B, C)  # Just A, B or C or their subclasses
A  # Just A (or its subclasses)
()  # Catch nothing.

so I suppose that having an empty tuple mean "catch nothing" is better than
having it catch everything.



-- 
Steven



From marko at pacujo.net  Sat Apr 11 03:14:39 2015
From: marko at pacujo.net (Marko Rauhamaa)
Date: Sat, 11 Apr 2015 10:14:39 +0300
Subject: find all multiplicands and multipliers for a number
References: <890bd388-f50a-4dec-9ef5-27715427472a@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.209.1428714381.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <55288135$0$12997$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <87egnrb3il.fsf@jester.gateway.sonic.net>
Message-ID: <87619387c0.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>

Paul Rubin <no.email at nospam.invalid>:

> This takes about 4 seconds on a Intel(R) Core(TM) i5-3230M CPU @ 2.60GHz
> laptop (64 bit linux):

Converted to Python3:
========================================================================
#!/usr/bin/env python3

import itertools, time

def candidates():
    yield 2
    yield 3
    for i in itertools.count(5,6):
        yield i
        yield i+2

def fac(n):
    for c in candidates():
        if c*c > n:
            yield n
            break
        while n%c == 0:
            yield c
            n //= c

t0 = time.time()
print(list(fac(2**111+1)))
print(time.time() - t0)
========================================================================

This is slightly faster:

========================================================================
#!/usr/bin/env python3

import time

def fac(n):
    for c in range(n):
        if c*c > n:
            yield n
            break
        while n%c == 0:
            yield c
            n //= c

t0 = time.time()
print(list(fac(2**111+1)))
print(time.time() - t0)
========================================================================


Marko


From steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info  Sat Apr 11 03:35:07 2015
From: steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: Sat, 11 Apr 2015 17:35:07 +1000
Subject: find all multiplicands and multipliers for a number
References: <890bd388-f50a-4dec-9ef5-27715427472a@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.209.1428714381.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <55288135$0$12997$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <87egnrb3il.fsf@jester.gateway.sonic.net>
Message-ID: <5528ceab$0$13013$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

On Sat, 11 Apr 2015 04:08 pm, Paul Rubin wrote:

> Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info> writes:
>> It may be a bit slow for very large numbers. On my computer, this takes
>> 20 seconds:
>> py> pyprimes.factors.factorise(2**111+1)
>> [3, 3, 1777, 3331, 17539, 25781083, 107775231312019L]
> 
> This takes about 4 seconds on a Intel(R) Core(TM) i5-3230M CPU @ 2.60GHz
> laptop (64 bit linux):

Nice for some who have fast machines, but on my old jalopy, your code takes
110 seconds, more than five times slower than mine. It also returns the
wrong result:

[3, 3, 3, 3, 7, 19, 73, 87211, 262657, 1.4411518807585587e+17]

Oops, you have a float in there, how did that happen?

We can tell your code gives the wrong result. It claims that 7 is a factor
of 2**111+1:

py> n = 2**111 + 1
py> itertools.islice(fac(n), 0, 5)
<itertools.islice object at 0xb7c8f914>
py> list(itertools.islice(fac(n), 0, 5))
[3, 3, 3, 3, 7]


but that can't be right:

py> n % 7
2L

Seven in not a factor of 2**111 + 1.

The reason your code gives wrong results is that you perform true division /
rather than integer division // which means that you with n a float, which
loses precision:

py> (n/9) % 3  # nine is a factor
0.0
py> (n//9) % 3  # exact, without rounding
1L



-- 
Steven



From storchaka at gmail.com  Sat Apr 11 04:22:15 2015
From: storchaka at gmail.com (Serhiy Storchaka)
Date: Sat, 11 Apr 2015 11:22:15 +0300
Subject: try..except with empty exceptions
In-Reply-To: <5528c906$0$12994$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
References: <64a75c32-e0ab-4ce0-9373-358c2669fe6e@googlegroups.com>
 <785010c0-6bcc-46d7-b7e0-0ed062fabbc7@googlegroups.com>
 <55287c0d$0$13000$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <mailman.211.1428718999.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <5528c906$0$12994$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <mgaljn$4mt$1@ger.gmane.org>

On 11.04.15 10:11, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> Anyway, in modern Python (2.6 onwards), now that string exceptions are gone,
> you can supply something to catch everything. Or nothing, for that matter:
>
> BaseException  # catch everything

Not everything.

 >>> class A: pass
...
 >>> try: raise A
... except BaseException: pass
...
Traceback (most recent call last):
   File "<stdin>", line 1, in <module>
__main__.A: <__main__.A instance at 0xb707982c>




From jonas.thornvall at gmail.com  Sat Apr 11 04:47:28 2015
From: jonas.thornvall at gmail.com (jonas.thornvall at gmail.com)
Date: Sat, 11 Apr 2015 01:47:28 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: find all multiplicands and multipliers for a number
In-Reply-To: <5528ceab$0$13013$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
References: <890bd388-f50a-4dec-9ef5-27715427472a@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.209.1428714381.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <55288135$0$12997$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <87egnrb3il.fsf@jester.gateway.sonic.net>
 <5528ceab$0$13013$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <c59242b3-47b7-4202-8c98-89acdf6c456a@googlegroups.com>

Den l?rdag 11 april 2015 kl. 09:35:22 UTC+2 skrev Steven D'Aprano:
> On Sat, 11 Apr 2015 04:08 pm, Paul Rubin wrote:
> 
> > Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info> writes:
> >> It may be a bit slow for very large numbers. On my computer, this takes
> >> 20 seconds:
> >> py> pyprimes.factors.factorise(2**111+1)
> >> [3, 3, 1777, 3331, 17539, 25781083, 107775231312019L]
> > 
> > This takes about 4 seconds on a Intel(R) Core(TM) i5-3230M CPU @ 2.60GHz
> > laptop (64 bit linux):
> 
> Nice for some who have fast machines, but on my old jalopy, your code takes
> 110 seconds, more than five times slower than mine. It also returns the
> wrong result:
> 
> [3, 3, 3, 3, 7, 19, 73, 87211, 262657, 1.4411518807585587e+17]
> 
> Oops, you have a float in there, how did that happen?
> 
> We can tell your code gives the wrong result. It claims that 7 is a factor
> of 2**111+1:
> 
> py> n = 2**111 + 1
> py> itertools.islice(fac(n), 0, 5)
> <itertools.islice object at 0xb7c8f914>
> py> list(itertools.islice(fac(n), 0, 5))
> [3, 3, 3, 3, 7]
> 
> 
> but that can't be right:
> 
> py> n % 7
> 2L
> 
> Seven in not a factor of 2**111 + 1.
> 
> The reason your code gives wrong results is that you perform true division /
> rather than integer division // which means that you with n a float, which
> loses precision:
> 
> py> (n/9) % 3  # nine is a factor
> 0.0
> py> (n//9) % 3  # exact, without rounding
> 1L
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Steven

Love it.


From tjreedy at udel.edu  Sat Apr 11 04:58:14 2015
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Sat, 11 Apr 2015 04:58:14 -0400
Subject: try..except with empty exceptions
In-Reply-To: <55287c0d$0$13000$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
References: <64a75c32-e0ab-4ce0-9373-358c2669fe6e@googlegroups.com>
 <785010c0-6bcc-46d7-b7e0-0ed062fabbc7@googlegroups.com>
 <55287c0d$0$13000$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <mgano7$3qi$1@ger.gmane.org>

On 4/10/2015 9:42 PM, Steven D'Aprano wrote:

> try:
>      spam()
> except:
>      # Implicitly an empty tuple.
>      pass

No, specified as equivalent to 'except BaseException:' (or 'except 
(BaseException,):', either of which are different from 'except ():'.
"An expression-less except clause, if present, must be last; it matches 
any exception."

-- 
Terry Jan Reedy



From DaveFarrance at OMiTTHiSyahooANDTHiS.co.uk  Sat Apr 11 05:03:15 2015
From: DaveFarrance at OMiTTHiSyahooANDTHiS.co.uk (Dave Farrance)
Date: Sat, 11 Apr 2015 10:03:15 +0100
Subject: find all multiplicands and multipliers for a number
References: <890bd388-f50a-4dec-9ef5-27715427472a@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <h9ohiapp8s6n7qa1n2i5rso6epu1joos8t@4ax.com>

$ python2
Python 2.7.8 (default, Oct 20 2014, 15:05:19) 
[GCC 4.9.1] on linux2
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> a = 256
>>> b = 256
>>> a is b
True
>>> a = 257
>>> b = 257
>>> a is b
False
>>> 

It's not safe to use 'is' to compare integers.

Use ==


From cs at zip.com.au  Sat Apr 11 05:27:27 2015
From: cs at zip.com.au (Cameron Simpson)
Date: Sat, 11 Apr 2015 19:27:27 +1000
Subject: try..except with empty exceptions
In-Reply-To: <d1e58c04-9c96-4fb8-a9ce-f56b9cdcd273@googlegroups.com>
References: <d1e58c04-9c96-4fb8-a9ce-f56b9cdcd273@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <20150411092727.GA32937@cskk.homeip.net>

On 10Apr2015 19:38, Rustom Mody <rustompmody at gmail.com> wrote:
>On Saturday, April 11, 2015 at 7:53:31 AM UTC+5:30, Dave Angel wrote:
>> On 04/10/2015 09:42 PM, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
>> > On Sat, 11 Apr 2015 05:31 am, sohcahtoa82 wrote:
>> >> It isn't document because it is expected.  Why would the exception get
>> >> caught if you're not writing code to catch it?  If you write a function
>> >> and pass it a tuple of exceptions to catch, I'm not sure why you would
>> >> expect it to catch an exception not in the tuple.  Just because the tuple
>> >> is empty doesn't mean that it should catch *everything* instead.  That
>> >> would be counter-intuitive.
>> >
>> > Really? I have to say, I expected it.
>>
>> I'm astounded at your expectation.  That's like saying a for loop on an
>> empty list ought to loop on all possible objects in the universe.
>
>To work, this analogy should also have two python syntaxes like this:
>
>"Normal" for-loop:
>for var in iterable:
>  suite
>
>"Empty" for-loop:
>for:
>  suite

Well, to throw an anaolgy in the mix, the shell has a bare for syntax.

  list='a b c'
  for x in $list
  do  echo $x
  done

echoes a, b and c as you might expect.

This:

  for x
  do  echo $x
  done

echoes the command line arguments. (Which is extremely useful.)

But as with Python, the missing iteration means a _default_ source of 
iteration, not _no_ iteration.

To continue the analogy, this:

  list=
  for x in $list
  do  echo $x
  done

echoes nothing. As I would hope Steven would expect.

Importantly, in both Python and the shell you have a way to specify "nothing".  

If the empty tuple were to mean "catch everything" then there would not be a 
way to express "catch nothing". Bad bad bad!

Consider this a proof that Python's current meanings for bare except and 
"except ()" are sensible, using a proof by contradiction.

Cheers,
Cameron Simpson <cs at zip.com.au>


From davea at davea.name  Sat Apr 11 06:14:24 2015
From: davea at davea.name (Dave Angel)
Date: Sat, 11 Apr 2015 06:14:24 -0400
Subject: try..except with empty exceptions
In-Reply-To: <5528c906$0$12994$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
References: <64a75c32-e0ab-4ce0-9373-358c2669fe6e@googlegroups.com>
 <785010c0-6bcc-46d7-b7e0-0ed062fabbc7@googlegroups.com>
 <55287c0d$0$13000$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <mailman.211.1428718999.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <5528c906$0$12994$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <5528F400.106@davea.name>

On 04/11/2015 03:11 AM, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> On Sat, 11 Apr 2015 12:23 pm, Dave Angel wrote:
>
>> On 04/10/2015 09:42 PM, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
>>> On Sat, 11 Apr 2015 05:31 am, sohcahtoa82 at gmail.com wrote:
>>>
>>>> It isn't document because it is expected.  Why would the exception get
>>>> caught if you're not writing code to catch it?  If you write a function
>>>> and pass it a tuple of exceptions to catch, I'm not sure why you would
>>>> expect it to catch an exception not in the tuple.  Just because the
>>>> tuple
>>>> is empty doesn't mean that it should catch *everything* instead.  That
>>>> would be counter-intuitive.
>>>
>>> Really? I have to say, I expected it.
>>>
>>>
>>
>> I'm astounded at your expectation.  That's like saying a for loop on an
>> empty list ought to loop on all possible objects in the universe.
>
> Not really.
>
> If we wrote:
>
>      for x in:
>          # Missing sequence leads to an infinite loop
>
> *then* your analogy would be excellent, but it isn't. With for loops, we
> iterate over each item in the sequence, hence an empty sequence means we
> don't iterate at all.
>
> But with try...except, an empty exception list means to catch *everything*,
> not nothing:

No an empty exception list means to catch nothing.  A *missing* 
exception list means catch everything, but that's a different syntax
>
> try: ...
> except a,b,c: # catches a, b, c
>
> try: ...
> except a,b: # catches a, b
>
> try: ...
> except a: # catches a

try: ...
except (a,)   #catches a

try: ...
except ()  #catches nothing, as expected

>
> try: ...
> except: # catches EVERYTHING, not nothing
>

Different syntax.  No reason for it to pretend that it's being given an 
empty tuple or list.

>
> Putting (a, b, c) into a tuple shouldn't make a difference, and it doesn't,
> unless the tuple is empty. That surprised me.
>
> t = a, b, c
> try:
> except t:  # same as except a,b,c
>
> t = a, b
> try:
> except t:  # same as except a,b
>
> t = a,
> try:
> except t:  # same as except a
>
> t = ()
> try:
> except t:  # NOT THE SAME as bare except.

Of course not.  It's empty, so it catches nothing. Just like 'for'

>
>
> I can see the logic behind the current behaviour. If you implement except
> clauses like this pseudo-code:
>
>
> for exc in exceptions:
>      if raised_exception matches exc: catch it
>
>
> then an empty tuple will naturally lead to nothing being caught. That
> doesn't mean it isn't surprising from the perspective that an empty
> exception list (i.e. a bare except) should be analogous to an empty tuple.

Why should it??  It's a different syntax, with different rules.  Perhaps 
it should have been consistent, but then it's this statement that's 
surprising, not the behavior with an empty tuple.

>
>
>> The tuple lists those exceptions you're interested in, and they are
>> tried, presumably in order, from that collection.  If none of those
>> match, then the logic will advance to the next except clause.  If the
>> tuple is empty, then clearly none will match.
>
> Yes, that makes sense, and I agree that it is reasonable behaviour from one
> perspective. But its also reasonable to treat "except ():" as analogous to
> a bare except.
>
> [...]
>>> try:
>>>       spam()
>>> except:
>>>       # Implicitly an empty tuple.
>>
>> No, an omitted item is not the same as an empty tuple.
>
> You are correct about Python as it actually is, but it could have been
> designed so that except (): was equivalent to a bare except.

Only by changing the bare except behavior.

>
>
>> If it were, then
>> we wouldn't have the problem of bare excepts, which are so tempting to
>> novices.  There's plenty of precedent in many languages for a missing
>> item being distinct from anything one could actually supply.
>
> Let us put aside the fact that some people misuse bare excepts, and allow
> that there are some uses for it. Now, in Python 2.6 and later, you can
> catch everything by catching BaseException. But in older versions, you
> could raise strings as well, and the only way to catch everything is with a
> bare except.
>
> If you want to write a function that takes a list of things to catch,
> defaulting to "everything", in Python 2.6+ we can write:
>
> def spam(things_to_catch=BaseException):
>      try:
>          do_stuff()
>      except things_to_catch:
>          handle_exception()
>
>
> but in older versions you have to write this:
>
> def spam(things_to_catch=None):
>      if things_to_catch is None:
>          try:
>              do_stuff()
>          except:
>              handle_exception()
>      else:
>          try:
>              do_stuff()
>          except things_to_catch:
>              handle_exception()
>
>
> This violates Don't Repeat Yourself. Any time you have "a missing item being
> distinct from anything one could actually supply", you have a poor design.

Yep, and it happens all the time.  For example, mylist[a,b,-1]    What 
value can I use for b to mean the whole list?

There are others more grotesque, but I can't think of any at this moment.

>
> Anyway, in modern Python (2.6 onwards), now that string exceptions are gone,
> you can supply something to catch everything. Or nothing, for that matter:
>
> BaseException  # catch everything
> Exception  # catch errors
> (A, B, C)  # Just A, B or C or their subclasses
> A  # Just A (or its subclasses)
> ()  # Catch nothing.
>
> so I suppose that having an empty tuple mean "catch nothing" is better than
> having it catch everything.
>

Just like with all(()) and any(()), there's a logical way and an 
illogical way.  An empty list means no items, not all possible items.



-- 
DaveA


From davea at davea.name  Sat Apr 11 06:24:38 2015
From: davea at davea.name (Dave Angel)
Date: Sat, 11 Apr 2015 06:24:38 -0400
Subject: try..except with empty exceptions
In-Reply-To: <5528F400.106@davea.name>
References: <64a75c32-e0ab-4ce0-9373-358c2669fe6e@googlegroups.com>
 <785010c0-6bcc-46d7-b7e0-0ed062fabbc7@googlegroups.com>
 <55287c0d$0$13000$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <mailman.211.1428718999.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <5528c906$0$12994$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <5528F400.106@davea.name>
Message-ID: <5528F666.7040204@davea.name>

On 04/11/2015 06:14 AM, Dave Angel wrote:
> On 04/11/2015 03:11 AM, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
>> On Sat, 11 Apr 2015 12:23 pm, Dave Angel wrote:
>>
>>> On 04/10/2015 09:42 PM, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
>>>> On Sat, 11 Apr 2015 05:31 am, sohcahtoa82 at gmail.com wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> It isn't document because it is expected.  Why would the exception get
>>>>> caught if you're not writing code to catch it?  If you write a
>>>>> function
>>>>> and pass it a tuple of exceptions to catch, I'm not sure why you would
>>>>> expect it to catch an exception not in the tuple.  Just because the
>>>>> tuple
>>>>> is empty doesn't mean that it should catch *everything* instead.  That
>>>>> would be counter-intuitive.
>>>>
>>>> Really? I have to say, I expected it.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> I'm astounded at your expectation.  That's like saying a for loop on an
>>> empty list ought to loop on all possible objects in the universe.
>>
>> Not really.
>>
>> If we wrote:
>>
>>      for x in:
>>          # Missing sequence leads to an infinite loop
>>
>> *then* your analogy would be excellent, but it isn't. With for loops, we
>> iterate over each item in the sequence, hence an empty sequence means we
>> don't iterate at all.
>>
>> But with try...except, an empty exception list means to catch
>> *everything*,
>> not nothing:
>
> No an empty exception list means to catch nothing.  A *missing*
> exception list means catch everything, but that's a different syntax
>>
>> try: ...
>> except a,b,c: # catches a, b, c
>>
>> try: ...
>> except a,b: # catches a, b
>>
>> try: ...
>> except a: # catches a
>
> try: ...
> except (a,)   #catches a
>
> try: ...
> except ()  #catches nothing, as expected
>
>>
>> try: ...
>> except: # catches EVERYTHING, not nothing
>>
>
> Different syntax.  No reason for it to pretend that it's being given an
> empty tuple or list.
>
>>
>> Putting (a, b, c) into a tuple shouldn't make a difference, and it
>> doesn't,
>> unless the tuple is empty. That surprised me.
>>
>> t = a, b, c
>> try:
>> except t:  # same as except a,b,c
>>
>> t = a, b
>> try:
>> except t:  # same as except a,b
>>
>> t = a,
>> try:
>> except t:  # same as except a
>>
>> t = ()
>> try:
>> except t:  # NOT THE SAME as bare except.
>
> Of course not.  It's empty, so it catches nothing. Just like 'for'
>
>>
>>
>> I can see the logic behind the current behaviour. If you implement except
>> clauses like this pseudo-code:
>>
>>
>> for exc in exceptions:
>>      if raised_exception matches exc: catch it
>>
>>
>> then an empty tuple will naturally lead to nothing being caught. That
>> doesn't mean it isn't surprising from the perspective that an empty
>> exception list (i.e. a bare except) should be analogous to an empty
>> tuple.
>
> Why should it??  It's a different syntax, with different rules.  Perhaps
> it should have been consistent, but then it's this statement that's
> surprising, not the behavior with an empty tuple.
>
>>
>>
>>> The tuple lists those exceptions you're interested in, and they are
>>> tried, presumably in order, from that collection.  If none of those
>>> match, then the logic will advance to the next except clause.  If the
>>> tuple is empty, then clearly none will match.
>>
>> Yes, that makes sense, and I agree that it is reasonable behaviour
>> from one
>> perspective. But its also reasonable to treat "except ():" as
>> analogous to
>> a bare except.
>>
>> [...]
>>>> try:
>>>>       spam()
>>>> except:
>>>>       # Implicitly an empty tuple.
>>>
>>> No, an omitted item is not the same as an empty tuple.
>>
>> You are correct about Python as it actually is, but it could have been
>> designed so that except (): was equivalent to a bare except.
>
> Only by changing the bare except behavior.
>
>>
>>
>>> If it were, then
>>> we wouldn't have the problem of bare excepts, which are so tempting to
>>> novices.  There's plenty of precedent in many languages for a missing
>>> item being distinct from anything one could actually supply.
>>
>> Let us put aside the fact that some people misuse bare excepts, and allow
>> that there are some uses for it. Now, in Python 2.6 and later, you can
>> catch everything by catching BaseException. But in older versions, you
>> could raise strings as well, and the only way to catch everything is
>> with a
>> bare except.
>>
>> If you want to write a function that takes a list of things to catch,
>> defaulting to "everything", in Python 2.6+ we can write:
>>
>> def spam(things_to_catch=BaseException):
>>      try:
>>          do_stuff()
>>      except things_to_catch:
>>          handle_exception()
>>
>>
>> but in older versions you have to write this:
>>
>> def spam(things_to_catch=None):
>>      if things_to_catch is None:
>>          try:
>>              do_stuff()
>>          except:
>>              handle_exception()
>>      else:
>>          try:
>>              do_stuff()
>>          except things_to_catch:
>>              handle_exception()
>>
>>
>> This violates Don't Repeat Yourself. Any time you have "a missing item
>> being
>> distinct from anything one could actually supply", you have a poor
>> design.
>
> Yep, and it happens all the time.  For example, mylist[a,b,-1]    What
> value can I use for b to mean the whole list?
>
> There are others more grotesque, but I can't think of any at this moment.
>
>>
>> Anyway, in modern Python (2.6 onwards), now that string exceptions are
>> gone,
>> you can supply something to catch everything. Or nothing, for that
>> matter:
>>
>> BaseException  # catch everything
>> Exception  # catch errors
>> (A, B, C)  # Just A, B or C or their subclasses
>> A  # Just A (or its subclasses)
>> ()  # Catch nothing.
>>
>> so I suppose that having an empty tuple mean "catch nothing" is better
>> than
>> having it catch everything.
>>
>
> Just like with all(()) and any(()), there's a logical way and an
> illogical way.  An empty list means no items, not all possible items.
>

A better analogy:

       if  item  in mytuple:
              process...

If mytuple is (), should this somehow turn into the equivalent of
       if   True:

of course not.  If mytuple is an empty tuple, then the if never succeeds.

In this case, just like with the real try/except (before 2.6), if you 
need to effectively make an infinite tuple, so that all possible items 
would match, you'd need different syntax:

      #No syntax needed for this case, we don't care what item is
      process...



-- 
DaveA


From steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info  Sat Apr 11 06:33:36 2015
From: steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: Sat, 11 Apr 2015 20:33:36 +1000
Subject: Dependency Injection
References: <5309a34a-c78c-4e9b-a117-628caa10fba9@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <5528f881$0$12993$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

On Sat, 11 Apr 2015 04:50 pm, Palpandi wrote:

> Hi all,
> 
> Can anyone explain about the dependency injection concept in python?
> 
> I have a class A. A is used in all other classes(B, C, D, ..). Is it good
> to use dependency injection concept in this situation or else any other
> suggestions?

The best description of Dependency Injection is this one from James Shore:

    "Dependency Injection" is a 25-dollar term for a 5-cent 
    concept. ... Dependency injection means giving an object 
    its instance variables.

http://www.jamesshore.com/Blog/Dependency-Injection-Demystified.html


Suppose we have a class like this:

class Car:
    def __init__(self):
        self.engine = Engine('4L', 'automatic')
    def accelerate(self):
        ...
    def brake(self):
        ...


Our Car class depends on the Engine class. Now, suppose we want a car with
an electric engine. We could subclass:

class ElectricCar(Car):
    def __init__(self):
        self.engine = ElectricMotor()


and for some problems that's fine. But *dependency injection* is another
solution. We change the Car class to take the engine as an argument:


# With dependency injection.
class Car:
    def __init__(self, engine):
        self.engine = engine


Now preparing the engine is the responsibility of the caller, not the Car
class. But that gives us lots more flexibility that we otherwise didn't
have:

grandmothers_car = Car(Engine('6L', 'manual')
dads_car = Car(ElectricMotor())
my_car = Car(LawnmowerEngine())
funnycar = Car(NitroBurningSupercharger())


This can make (for example) testing easier and less fragile:

# Without dependency injection, we have to monkey-patch on the fly.
save_engine = Engine  # Save.
Engine = MockEngine  # Replace.
test = Car()
Engine = save_engine  # Restore.


# With dependency injection, things are easy.
test = Car(MockEngine())



but the cost is that the caller now is responsible for the Car's internals.
We can have the best of both worlds by using a default value:

class Car:
    def __init__(self, engine=None):
        if engine is None:
            engine = Engine('4L', 'automatic')
        self.engine = engine

# I don't care what sort of engine I get
car = Car()

# Now I want to test.
test = Car(MockEngine())


Another related strategy is to pass the engine type, not the engine itself:

class Car:
    def __init__(self, engine_type):
        self.engine = engine_type('4L', 'automatic')



-- 
Steven



From steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info  Sat Apr 11 06:47:54 2015
From: steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: Sat, 11 Apr 2015 20:47:54 +1000
Subject: try..except with empty exceptions
References: <64a75c32-e0ab-4ce0-9373-358c2669fe6e@googlegroups.com>
 <785010c0-6bcc-46d7-b7e0-0ed062fabbc7@googlegroups.com>
 <55287c0d$0$13000$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <mailman.211.1428718999.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <5528c906$0$12994$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <mailman.215.1428740547.12925.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <5528fbdb$0$13010$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

On Sat, 11 Apr 2015 06:22 pm, Serhiy Storchaka wrote:

> On 11.04.15 10:11, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
>> Anyway, in modern Python (2.6 onwards), now that string exceptions are
>> gone, you can supply something to catch everything. Or nothing, for that
>> matter:
>>
>> BaseException  # catch everything
> 
> Not everything.
> 
>  >>> class A: pass
> ...
>  >>> try: raise A
> ... except BaseException: pass
> ...
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>    File "<stdin>", line 1, in <module>
> __main__.A: <__main__.A instance at 0xb707982c>

Hmmm, I thought that starting from 2.6 exceptions had to inherit from
BaseException. Thanks for the correction.


[steve at ando ~]$ python2.7 -c "class A: pass
raise A()"
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<string>", line 2, in <module>
__main__.A: <__main__.A instance at 0xb7ebb1ac>


[steve at ando ~]$ python3.3 -c "class A: pass
raise A()"
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<string>", line 2, in <module>
TypeError: exceptions must derive from BaseException


Ahah! So it's 3.x only that catching BaseException should catch everything.

In 2.6, Python stopped supporting string exceptions:

[steve at ando ~]$ python2.6 -c "raise 'spam'"
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<string>", line 1, in <module>
TypeError: exceptions must be old-style classes or derived from
BaseException, not str

(glad that at least I remembered that part correctly!)




-- 
Steven



From steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info  Sat Apr 11 07:00:59 2015
From: steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: Sat, 11 Apr 2015 21:00:59 +1000
Subject: try..except with empty exceptions
References: <d1e58c04-9c96-4fb8-a9ce-f56b9cdcd273@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.217.1428744459.12925.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <5528feec$0$13002$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

On Sat, 11 Apr 2015 07:27 pm, Cameron Simpson wrote:

> If the empty tuple were to mean "catch everything" then there would not be
> a way to express "catch nothing". Bad bad bad!

# Catch everything:
try:
    spam()
except:
    pass


# Catch nothing:
spam()


:-)


> Consider this a proof that Python's current meanings for bare except and
> "except ()" are sensible, using a proof by contradiction.


Given that Python 3 does not allow you to raise things which don't inherit
from BaseException, I wish that bare except clauses were dropped
altogether. In Python 3, the equivalent to "catch everything" is
spelled "except BaseException", which I think would be a lot less
attractive to beginners than bare "except:".

But I digress.

Yes, I agree that Python's behaviour here is better than the alternative.
Having "except ()" catch nothing is consistent with the behaviour with
other tuples, so I'm okay with that. But it still surprised me :-)



-- 
Steven



From rosuav at gmail.com  Sat Apr 11 07:21:00 2015
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Sat, 11 Apr 2015 21:21:00 +1000
Subject: try..except with empty exceptions
In-Reply-To: <5528feec$0$13002$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
References: <d1e58c04-9c96-4fb8-a9ce-f56b9cdcd273@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.217.1428744459.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <5528feec$0$13002$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmpBUct=UXMLdSpBTL8uH56qsMc6AZxg5SC7D=zt7Tqsig@mail.gmail.com>

On Sat, Apr 11, 2015 at 9:00 PM, Steven D'Aprano
<steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info> wrote:
> Yes, I agree that Python's behaviour here is better than the alternative.
> Having "except ()" catch nothing is consistent with the behaviour with
> other tuples, so I'm okay with that. But it still surprised me :-)

It's worth noting that there's another false parallel here. Grouping
nothing creates something.

x = 1   # x is an integer
x = (1)  # ditto
x = (((((((((1)))))))))  # LITHP

Okay, so adding parentheses does nothing, right? Right.

x =  # syntax error
x = ()  # empty tuple

"Parentheses around nothing" is NOT the same as "nothing". So if you
compare against this, then it makes perfect sense for "except :" and
"except ():" to be distinctly different.

But I agree, it would be very nice if Python 3 could have abolished
the truly confusing part of this, where "except:" catches everything.
Forcing people to spell it "except BaseException:" would fix all of
this. How hard is it to deprecate and then remove that, same as string
exceptions were removed?

You know what, I'm moving that to -ideas.

ChrisA


From ian at feete.org  Sat Apr 11 10:20:13 2015
From: ian at feete.org (Ian Foote)
Date: Sat, 11 Apr 2015 15:20:13 +0100
Subject: try..except with empty exceptions
In-Reply-To: <5528c906$0$12994$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
References: <64a75c32-e0ab-4ce0-9373-358c2669fe6e@googlegroups.com>
 <785010c0-6bcc-46d7-b7e0-0ed062fabbc7@googlegroups.com>
 <55287c0d$0$13000$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <mailman.211.1428718999.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <5528c906$0$12994$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <55292D9D.8050200@feete.org>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On 11/04/15 08:11, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> But with try...except, an empty exception list means to catch
> *everything*, not nothing:
> 
> try: ... except a,b,c: # catches a, b, c
> 
> try: ... except a,b: # catches a, b

This example is incorrect. In python3 it is a SyntaxError:

    Python 3.4.0 (default, Apr 11 2014, 13:05:11)
    [GCC 4.8.2] on linux
    Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more
    information.
    >>> try:
    ...  1/0
    ... except ValueError, ZeroDivisionError:
      File "<stdin>", line 3
        except ValueError, ZeroDivisionError:
                         ^
    SyntaxError: invalid syntax

In python2 it aliases ValueError as ZeroDivisionError:

    Python 2.7.6 (default, Mar 22 2014, 22:59:56)
    [GCC 4.8.2] on linux2
    Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more
    information.
    >>> try:
    ...  1/0
    ... except ValueError, ZeroDivisionError:
    ...  pass
    ...
    Traceback (most recent call last):
      File "<stdin>", line 2, in <module>
    ZeroDivisionError: integer division or modulo by zero

To get the behaviour you expect, you must use parentheses:

    >>> try:
    ...  1/0
    ... except (ValueError, ZeroDivisionError):
    ...  pass
    ...

Regards,
Ian F
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1

iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJVKS2dAAoJEODsV4MF7PWznkAH/jidWhoJ//gsvBr0ByOOOEgc
A+k8HqrkALfzrh3aEjJB3sq19oLfLcepQeFVUh77mJKOMCQdEeyJtqIz6tLc4RUa
L/nXytHygXVTb5HIARGVkPD26gqAleSb9eZUfPeSEvRHy9UbFS7SMmOdkApheDX3
Vq8TOa8EchaYd+S89y9eepZAhGC7n2TNwrNgp36sbHoz/hYUxFNnugP0ow9FM0Wk
MGKGh04c3Lao+6w7a0scz4YKKb8wTdYkyYwlJhEdg3q74+PwYJpkjcGucna745AZ
XlAKlDCJ9LhPgMufuGdRNskJa4TF709ec5hG9itHu1lFKrjH1iJCEU9ntX6hInU=
=zi4K
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----


From jonas.thornvall at gmail.com  Sat Apr 11 11:00:16 2015
From: jonas.thornvall at gmail.com (jonas.thornvall at gmail.com)
Date: Sat, 11 Apr 2015 08:00:16 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Generarl programming question.
Message-ID: <dcb7fd6b-3a96-47e8-91f6-49b21f7bf605@googlegroups.com>

If two functions crossreference eachother back and forth what happen with the local variables.

Will there be a new instance of function holding the variables or do they get messed up?


From rosuav at gmail.com  Sat Apr 11 11:15:06 2015
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Sun, 12 Apr 2015 01:15:06 +1000
Subject: Generarl programming question.
In-Reply-To: <dcb7fd6b-3a96-47e8-91f6-49b21f7bf605@googlegroups.com>
References: <dcb7fd6b-3a96-47e8-91f6-49b21f7bf605@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmop=NuzxmDaQ9LwysS7HmdqDH4zPLDDurD5VoxyiRj28w@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, Apr 12, 2015 at 1:00 AM,  <jonas.thornvall at gmail.com> wrote:
> If two functions crossreference eachother back and forth what happen with the local variables.
>
> Will there be a new instance of function holding the variables or do they get messed up?

You mean if one function calls another, and that function calls the
first? That's called "mutual recursion":

def func1(x):
    if x % 2: return x + 1
    return func2(x - 2)

def func2(x):
    if x % 3: return x + 2
    return func1(x - 3)

The 'x' inside each function is completely separate, no matter how
many times they get called. They're usually stored on something called
a "call stack" - you put another sheet of paper on top of the stack
every time you call a function, local variables are all written on
that paper, and when you return from a function, you discard the top
sheet and see what's underneath.

For more information, search the web for the key terms in the above
description, particularly the ones I put in quotes.

If this isn't what you're talking about, the best way to clarify your
question is probably to post a simple (even stupidly trivial, like the
one above) example, and ask a question about that code. Someone'll
doubtless help out!

ChrisA


From jonas.thornvall at gmail.com  Sat Apr 11 11:22:44 2015
From: jonas.thornvall at gmail.com (jonas.thornvall at gmail.com)
Date: Sat, 11 Apr 2015 08:22:44 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Generarl programming question.
In-Reply-To: <mailman.222.1428765309.12925.python-list@python.org>
References: <dcb7fd6b-3a96-47e8-91f6-49b21f7bf605@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.222.1428765309.12925.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1f4ab217-ed8e-4d8c-ba61-907465a4839a@googlegroups.com>

Den l?rdag 11 april 2015 kl. 17:16:09 UTC+2 skrev Chris Angelico:
> On Sun, Apr 12, 2015 at 1:00 AM,  <jonas.thornvall at gmail.com> wrote:
> > If two functions crossreference eachother back and forth what happen with the local variables.
> >
> > Will there be a new instance of function holding the variables or do they get messed up?
> 
> You mean if one function calls another, and that function calls the
> first? That's called "mutual recursion":
> 
> def func1(x):
>     if x % 2: return x + 1
>     return func2(x - 2)
> 
> def func2(x):
>     if x % 3: return x + 2
>     return func1(x - 3)
> 
> The 'x' inside each function is completely separate, no matter how
> many times they get called. They're usually stored on something called
> a "call stack" - you put another sheet of paper on top of the stack
> every time you call a function, local variables are all written on
> that paper, and when you return from a function, you discard the top
> sheet and see what's underneath.
> 
> For more information, search the web for the key terms in the above
> description, particularly the ones I put in quotes.
> 
> If this isn't what you're talking about, the best way to clarify your
> question is probably to post a simple (even stupidly trivial, like the
> one above) example, and ask a question about that code. Someone'll
> doubtless help out!
> 
> ChrisA

Thanks i was worried, i try to make a generic base choice algorithm that should work for anybase, and i just realised that the bignumb add would need to call the bignumb subtraction and viceversa. I thought there may be instances but i was not sure. 

But I have a feeling the code will be hard to debug.


From steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info  Sat Apr 11 11:25:50 2015
From: steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: Sun, 12 Apr 2015 01:25:50 +1000
Subject: Generarl programming question.
References: <dcb7fd6b-3a96-47e8-91f6-49b21f7bf605@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <55293cff$0$12979$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

On Sun, 12 Apr 2015 01:00 am, jonas.thornvall at gmail.com wrote:

> If two functions crossreference eachother back and forth what happen with
> the local variables.

Nothing. They are local to the function that creates them.


> Will there be a new instance of function holding the variables or do they
> get messed up?

No to both of those. You have two functions, each with it's own locals.


def spam():
    colour = "red"
    print("Inside spam: colour is:", colour)
    eggs()
    print("Inside spam after calling eggs: colour is:", colour)
    eggs()


def eggs():
    colour = "yellow"
    print("Inside eggs: colour is:", colour)


Calling spam() gives you this output:

py> spam()
Inside spam: colour is: red
Inside eggs: colour is: yellow
Inside spam after calling eggs: colour is: red
Inside eggs: colour is: yellow


Even if the functions call each other (mutual recursion) each function's
local variables remain local.



-- 
Steven



From rosuav at gmail.com  Sat Apr 11 11:28:28 2015
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Sun, 12 Apr 2015 01:28:28 +1000
Subject: Generarl programming question.
In-Reply-To: <1f4ab217-ed8e-4d8c-ba61-907465a4839a@googlegroups.com>
References: <dcb7fd6b-3a96-47e8-91f6-49b21f7bf605@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.222.1428765309.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <1f4ab217-ed8e-4d8c-ba61-907465a4839a@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmpRqG8-iKc+73YKtCJh6O=CwJtr_2DtEVofDYC=GLZ+wg@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, Apr 12, 2015 at 1:22 AM,  <jonas.thornvall at gmail.com> wrote:
> Thanks i was worried, i try to make a generic base choice algorithm that should work for anybase, and i just realised that the bignumb add would need to call the bignumb subtraction and viceversa. I thought there may be instances but i was not sure.
>
> But I have a feeling the code will be hard to debug.

The thing to watch out for is unbounded recursion, where they might
call each other forever. But you could easily define your two
functions to fall back to the other like this:

def add(x, y):
    if is_negative(y): return subtract(x, -y)
    # implement addition with known-positive y

def subtract(x, y):
    if is_negative(y): return add(x, -y)
    # implement subtraction with known-positive y

There's no problem here, and no possible conflict. (I don't know how
it'd actually help, implementing it like this, but it's certainly
legal.)

ChrisA


From jonas.thornvall at gmail.com  Sat Apr 11 11:36:08 2015
From: jonas.thornvall at gmail.com (jonas.thornvall at gmail.com)
Date: Sat, 11 Apr 2015 08:36:08 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Generarl programming question.
In-Reply-To: <55293cff$0$12979$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
References: <dcb7fd6b-3a96-47e8-91f6-49b21f7bf605@googlegroups.com>
 <55293cff$0$12979$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <ce9408cd-4622-4c1b-a515-45df7dace0bc@googlegroups.com>

Den l?rdag 11 april 2015 kl. 17:26:03 UTC+2 skrev Steven D'Aprano:
> On Sun, 12 Apr 2015 01:00 am, jonas.thornvall at gmail.com wrote:
> 
> > If two functions crossreference eachother back and forth what happen with
> > the local variables.
> 
> Nothing. They are local to the function that creates them.
> 
> 
> > Will there be a new instance of function holding the variables or do they
> > get messed up?
> 
> No to both of those. You have two functions, each with it's own locals.
> 
> 
> def spam():
>     colour = "red"
>     print("Inside spam: colour is:", colour)
>     eggs()
>     print("Inside spam after calling eggs: colour is:", colour)
>     eggs()
> 
> 
> def eggs():
>     colour = "yellow"
>     print("Inside eggs: colour is:", colour)
> 
> 
> Calling spam() gives you this output:
> 
> py> spam()
> Inside spam: colour is: red
> Inside eggs: colour is: yellow
> Inside spam after calling eggs: colour is: red
> Inside eggs: colour is: yellow
> 
> 
> Even if the functions call each other (mutual recursion) each function's
> local variables remain local.
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Steven

I don't think it matter butt eggs also calls spam, once more.


From PointedEars at web.de  Sat Apr 11 12:23:33 2015
From: PointedEars at web.de (Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn)
Date: Sat, 11 Apr 2015 18:23:33 +0200
Subject: Generarl programming question.
References: <dcb7fd6b-3a96-47e8-91f6-49b21f7bf605@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.222.1428765309.12925.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <12030326.cc9aoE7jz1@PointedEars.de>

Chris Angelico wrote:

> The 'x' inside each function is completely separate, no matter how
> many times they get called. They're usually stored on something called
> a "call stack" - you put another sheet of paper on top of the stack
> every time you call a function, local variables are all written on
> that paper, and when you return from a function, you discard the top
> sheet and see what's underneath.

Thank you for that description; I shall use it from now on when teaching 
laymen about the call stack.

-- 
PointedEars

Twitter: @PointedEars2
Please do not cc me. / Bitte keine Kopien per E-Mail.


From no.email at nospam.invalid  Sat Apr 11 12:31:48 2015
From: no.email at nospam.invalid (Paul Rubin)
Date: Sat, 11 Apr 2015 09:31:48 -0700
Subject: find all multiplicands and multipliers for a number
References: <890bd388-f50a-4dec-9ef5-27715427472a@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.209.1428714381.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <55288135$0$12997$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <87egnrb3il.fsf@jester.gateway.sonic.net>
 <5528ceab$0$13013$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <87a8yebp8r.fsf@jester.gateway.sonic.net>

Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info> writes:
> [3, 3, 3, 3, 7, 19, 73, 87211, 262657, 1.4411518807585587e+17]
> Oops, you have a float in there, how did that happen?

Looks like you are using a broken version of Python.


From no.email at nospam.invalid  Sat Apr 11 12:59:11 2015
From: no.email at nospam.invalid (Paul Rubin)
Date: Sat, 11 Apr 2015 09:59:11 -0700
Subject: find all multiplicands and multipliers for a number
References: <890bd388-f50a-4dec-9ef5-27715427472a@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.209.1428714381.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <55288135$0$12997$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <87egnrb3il.fsf@jester.gateway.sonic.net>
 <87619387c0.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
Message-ID: <87y4lya9eo.fsf@jester.gateway.sonic.net>

Marko Rauhamaa <marko at pacujo.net> writes:
> This is slightly faster:...
> def fac(n):
>     for c in range(n):
>         if c*c > n: ...

That's interesting and says something bad about generators in Python 3.
It's doing 3 times as many trial divisions as the version I posted, and
it's still faster?

xrange in Python 2 doesn't work with bignums, but using 
itertools.count(3,2) I get about 5.5 seconds and with itertools.count(3)
I get 11 seconds.

I wrote the same algorithm in Haskell and it's about 0.85 seconds,
probably due to native compilation and faster bignums.  A naive
implementation of Pollard's rho algorithm in Haskell is basically
instantaneous on that number.  I might try coding Pollard's method or
Brent's improvement in Python.


From no.email at nospam.invalid  Sat Apr 11 13:02:01 2015
From: no.email at nospam.invalid (Paul Rubin)
Date: Sat, 11 Apr 2015 10:02:01 -0700
Subject: find all multiplicands and multipliers for a number
References: <890bd388-f50a-4dec-9ef5-27715427472a@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.209.1428714381.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <55288135$0$12997$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <87egnrb3il.fsf@jester.gateway.sonic.net>
 <5528ceab$0$13013$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <mailman.225.1428770707.12925.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <87twwma99y.fsf@jester.gateway.sonic.net>

Dennis Lee Bieber <wlfraed at ix.netcom.com> writes:
>>Oops, you have a float in there, how did that happen?
> 	Off the top of my head -- I'd suspect an older version of Python that
> promoted 2**111 to a double, rather than to a Long-Int.

No he's being a wise guy.  The /= returned a float result in Python 3
after the first factor was found.  I noticed the /= after posting, but I
figured the print statement would trigger a syntax error in Python 3.
Looks like he did a partial conversion.


From ravas at outlook.com  Sat Apr 11 13:11:10 2015
From: ravas at outlook.com (ravas)
Date: Sat, 11 Apr 2015 10:11:10 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: find all multiplicands and multipliers for a number
In-Reply-To: <890bd388-f50a-4dec-9ef5-27715427472a@googlegroups.com>
References: <890bd388-f50a-4dec-9ef5-27715427472a@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <6e4c44a1-a4f9-40af-a569-ef1f3e0e05c9@googlegroups.com>

Thank you all. I learned a lot.


From marko at pacujo.net  Sat Apr 11 13:31:32 2015
From: marko at pacujo.net (Marko Rauhamaa)
Date: Sat, 11 Apr 2015 20:31:32 +0300
Subject: find all multiplicands and multipliers for a number
References: <890bd388-f50a-4dec-9ef5-27715427472a@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.209.1428714381.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <55288135$0$12997$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <87egnrb3il.fsf@jester.gateway.sonic.net>
 <87619387c0.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <87y4lya9eo.fsf@jester.gateway.sonic.net>
Message-ID: <87zj6e7erv.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>

Paul Rubin <no.email at nospam.invalid>:

> Marko Rauhamaa <marko at pacujo.net> writes:
>> This is slightly faster:...
>> def fac(n):
>>     for c in range(n):
>>         if c*c > n: ...
>
> That's interesting and says something bad about generators in Python
> 3. It's doing 3 times as many trial divisions as the version I posted,
> and it's still faster?

I think it mostly says divisions are not so evil as you think they might
be. Also, I wouldn't bother optimizing Python's performance too much.
Python is very wasteful wrt space and speed -- and for good reasons.
Either Python does it for you or it doesn't. If it doesn't, write that
part in C.

Myself, I write in bash what I can. What I can't, I write in Python.
What I can't write in Python, I write in C.


Marko

PS Note that you're being "wasteful" by multiplying c*c over and over
again instead of calculating the square root of n a handful of times.
But since multiplication isn't all that expensive, the square root
optimization doesn't affect execution time measurably.


From no.email at nospam.invalid  Sat Apr 11 13:52:59 2015
From: no.email at nospam.invalid (Paul Rubin)
Date: Sat, 11 Apr 2015 10:52:59 -0700
Subject: find all multiplicands and multipliers for a number
References: <890bd388-f50a-4dec-9ef5-27715427472a@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.209.1428714381.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <55288135$0$12997$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <87egnrb3il.fsf@jester.gateway.sonic.net>
 <87619387c0.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <87y4lya9eo.fsf@jester.gateway.sonic.net>
 <87zj6e7erv.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
Message-ID: <87pp7aa6x0.fsf@jester.gateway.sonic.net>

Marko Rauhamaa <marko at pacujo.net> writes:
> I think it mostly says divisions are not so evil as you think they might
> be.

They are bignum divisions which are much more expensive than machine
divisions.  And it's not just the divisions, it's also the number of
iterations through the whole loop.  And the Python 2 vs Python 3
difference is still unexplained.

> PS Note that you're being "wasteful" by multiplying c*c over and over

Yeah this is a reasonable point, though most of the c's should fit in a
machine word, at least in my 64-bit system.  I think Python still
separates ints and longs in the implementation.


From tjreedy at udel.edu  Sat Apr 11 14:47:51 2015
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Sat, 11 Apr 2015 14:47:51 -0400
Subject: Generarl programming question.
In-Reply-To: <12030326.cc9aoE7jz1@PointedEars.de>
References: <dcb7fd6b-3a96-47e8-91f6-49b21f7bf605@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.222.1428765309.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <12030326.cc9aoE7jz1@PointedEars.de>
Message-ID: <mgbq9o$94d$1@ger.gmane.org>

On 4/11/2015 12:23 PM, Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn wrote:
> Chris Angelico wrote:
>
>> The 'x' inside each function is completely separate, no matter how
>> many times they get called. They're usually stored on something called
>> a "call stack" - you put another sheet of paper on top of the stack
>> every time you call a function, local variables are all written on
>> that paper, and when you return from a function, you discard the top
>> sheet and see what's underneath.
>
> Thank you for that description; I shall use it from now on when teaching
> laymen about the call stack.

What Chris is describing is one local namespace (sheet of paper) per 
function *call*.  In early Fortran (at least the first version I used), 
there was one local namespace (sheet) per *function*.  The call stack 
was a stack of (pointers to) functions.  While a function object was in 
use (after a call, before the return), it could not be called again.  In 
other words, recursion, direct or indirect, was not allowed.  I believe 
the same was (is?) true of some versions of BASIC.

It has been proposed that Python use a hybrid model.  Function objects 
would have space for local variables for the first call, but there would 
also be a mechanism to allocate additional 'sheets' for recursive calls. 
  The idea is that most functions are not called recursively, so the 
overhead of allocating and freeing the per-call space is usually not 
needed.  I do not believe that anyone has implemented the idea to test 
feasibility and the actual speedup in relation to the additional complexity.

-- 
Terry Jan Reedy



From ian.g.kelly at gmail.com  Sat Apr 11 14:49:08 2015
From: ian.g.kelly at gmail.com (Ian Kelly)
Date: Sat, 11 Apr 2015 12:49:08 -0600
Subject: try..except with empty exceptions
In-Reply-To: <5528feec$0$13002$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
References: <d1e58c04-9c96-4fb8-a9ce-f56b9cdcd273@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.217.1428744459.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <5528feec$0$13002$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <CALwzid=_R=zVJYpAJRemGS2j1PQsRY1_1TJjB8xW-rHgDkD-DQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Apr 11, 2015 5:06 AM, "Steven D'Aprano" <
steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info> wrote:
>
> Yes, I agree that Python's behaviour here is better than the alternative.
> Having "except ()" catch nothing is consistent with the behaviour with
> other tuples, so I'm okay with that. But it still surprised me :-)

There's another alternative that I haven't seen suggested yet. An empty
tuple could be considered an indication of a programming error and raise a
chained ValueError.
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/attachments/20150411/ca54db3c/attachment.html>

From PointedEars at web.de  Sat Apr 11 15:19:49 2015
From: PointedEars at web.de (Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn)
Date: Sat, 11 Apr 2015 21:19:49 +0200
Subject: Generarl programming question.
References: <dcb7fd6b-3a96-47e8-91f6-49b21f7bf605@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.222.1428765309.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <12030326.cc9aoE7jz1@PointedEars.de>
 <mailman.227.1428778121.12925.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3458425.12qjem4LOE@PointedEars.de>

Terry Reedy wrote:

> On 4/11/2015 12:23 PM, Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn wrote:
>> Chris Angelico wrote:
>>> The 'x' inside each function is completely separate, no matter how
>>> many times they get called. They're usually stored on something called
>>> a "call stack" - you put another sheet of paper on top of the stack
>>> every time you call a function, local variables are all written on
>>> that paper, and when you return from a function, you discard the top
>>> sheet and see what's underneath.
>>
>> Thank you for that description; I shall use it from now on when teaching
>> laymen about the call stack.
> 
> What Chris is describing is one local namespace (sheet of paper) per
> function *call*.

I *know* what he is describing: the *call* stack.

> In early Fortran (at least the first version I used),
> there was one local namespace (sheet) per *function*.

The names in such namespaces are now called static variables.  AFAIK, Python 
does not have them, but PHP, for example, has:

  function foo ()
  {
    static $bar = 1;
    $bar *= 2;
    return $bar;
  }

The variable $bar then keeps its last value for subsequent calls of foo().

> The call stack was a stack of (pointers to) functions.

It would appear that the commonly used definition of ?call stack? has 
considerably changed since then, since I have been programming computers for 
more than two decades now (not including FORTRAN, though) and never heard of
your definition before.

> It has been proposed that Python use a hybrid model.  Function objects 

Interesting.  I did not know that functions are objects in Python, too.

> would have space for local variables for the first call, but there would 
> also be a mechanism to allocate additional 'sheets' for recursive calls. 
>   The idea is that most functions are not called recursively, so the 
> overhead of allocating and freeing the per-call space is usually not 
> needed.  I do not believe that anyone has implemented the idea to test 
> feasibility and the actual speedup in relation to the additional 
> complexity.

ISTM that such static variables are the remains of non-object-oriented 
programming.  In a language where functions are first-class objects, you 
would use a closure instead.  And in OOP you would solve the problem with an 
object holding the value in a property that survives exiting the execution 
context of the function/method.  It is not a good idea to reintroduce 
obsolete concepts into Python.
 
-- 
PointedEars

Twitter: @PointedEars2
Please do not cc me. / Bitte keine Kopien per E-Mail.


From rosuav at gmail.com  Sat Apr 11 16:04:53 2015
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Sun, 12 Apr 2015 06:04:53 +1000
Subject: try..except with empty exceptions
In-Reply-To: <CALwzid=_R=zVJYpAJRemGS2j1PQsRY1_1TJjB8xW-rHgDkD-DQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <d1e58c04-9c96-4fb8-a9ce-f56b9cdcd273@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.217.1428744459.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <5528feec$0$13002$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <CALwzid=_R=zVJYpAJRemGS2j1PQsRY1_1TJjB8xW-rHgDkD-DQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmrjJY+=kT7jo4sseCAC9+E1=nSGRv3T6jQY7XoWTRRVdw@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, Apr 12, 2015 at 4:49 AM, Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Apr 11, 2015 5:06 AM, "Steven D'Aprano"
> <steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info> wrote:
>>
>> Yes, I agree that Python's behaviour here is better than the alternative.
>> Having "except ()" catch nothing is consistent with the behaviour with
>> other tuples, so I'm okay with that. But it still surprised me :-)
>
> There's another alternative that I haven't seen suggested yet. An empty
> tuple could be considered an indication of a programming error and raise a
> chained ValueError.

Not really a lot of point. Just as with isinstance, an empty tuple
simply matches nothing. Why go to the effort of rejecting it?

ChrisA


From rosuav at gmail.com  Sat Apr 11 16:05:34 2015
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Sun, 12 Apr 2015 06:05:34 +1000
Subject: try..except with empty exceptions
In-Reply-To: <CAPTjJmrjJY+=kT7jo4sseCAC9+E1=nSGRv3T6jQY7XoWTRRVdw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <d1e58c04-9c96-4fb8-a9ce-f56b9cdcd273@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.217.1428744459.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <5528feec$0$13002$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <CALwzid=_R=zVJYpAJRemGS2j1PQsRY1_1TJjB8xW-rHgDkD-DQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAPTjJmrjJY+=kT7jo4sseCAC9+E1=nSGRv3T6jQY7XoWTRRVdw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmrgede7WgTp-EZ+ArMUnAYo76RL2H_iLvmL-7PQyLQicg@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, Apr 12, 2015 at 6:04 AM, Chris Angelico <rosuav at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Sun, Apr 12, 2015 at 4:49 AM, Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly at gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Apr 11, 2015 5:06 AM, "Steven D'Aprano"
>> <steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info> wrote:
>>>
>>> Yes, I agree that Python's behaviour here is better than the alternative.
>>> Having "except ()" catch nothing is consistent with the behaviour with
>>> other tuples, so I'm okay with that. But it still surprised me :-)
>>
>> There's another alternative that I haven't seen suggested yet. An empty
>> tuple could be considered an indication of a programming error and raise a
>> chained ValueError.
>
> Not really a lot of point. Just as with isinstance, an empty tuple
> simply matches nothing. Why go to the effort of rejecting it?

(At least, I assume you're not putting a literal empty tuple in. This
would be useful only in cases where the tuple is provided
dynamically.)

ChrisA


From rosuav at gmail.com  Sat Apr 11 17:10:47 2015
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Sun, 12 Apr 2015 07:10:47 +1000
Subject: find all multiplicands and multipliers for a number
In-Reply-To: <87pp7aa6x0.fsf@jester.gateway.sonic.net>
References: <890bd388-f50a-4dec-9ef5-27715427472a@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.209.1428714381.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <55288135$0$12997$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <87egnrb3il.fsf@jester.gateway.sonic.net>
 <87619387c0.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <87y4lya9eo.fsf@jester.gateway.sonic.net>
 <87zj6e7erv.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <87pp7aa6x0.fsf@jester.gateway.sonic.net>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmpmeNsvToDtw7Cd4pXW0rVF4MdDvUmSQKyJJFJjf=AnUw@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, Apr 12, 2015 at 3:52 AM, Paul Rubin <no.email at nospam.invalid> wrote:
>> PS Note that you're being "wasteful" by multiplying c*c over and over
>
> Yeah this is a reasonable point, though most of the c's should fit in a
> machine word, at least in my 64-bit system.  I think Python still
> separates ints and longs in the implementation.

I don't think it does. Performance doesn't seem to change in Py3 as
the numbers get bigger:

rosuav at sikorsky:~$ cat perftest.py
def naive_sum(top,base=0):
    i=0
    while i<top:
        i+=1
        base+=i
    return base

# Correctness test
print("Sum of numbers from 1 to 10 is: %d"%naive_sum(10))
print("Sum of numbers from 1 to 20 is: %d"%(naive_sum(20,1000)-1000))

import timeit
for base in (0, 10, 60, 100, 200):
    print("Base: 2**%d"%base)
    # Simpler than doing the whole iteration-judging thing ourselves
    timeit.main([
        "-s","from __main__ import naive_sum",
        "naive_sum(1000,%d)"%(2**base)
    ])

rosuav at sikorsky:~$ python2 perftest.py
Sum of numbers from 1 to 10 is: 55
Sum of numbers from 1 to 20 is: 210
Base: 2**0
10000 loops, best of 3: 89.6 usec per loop
Base: 2**10
10000 loops, best of 3: 89.9 usec per loop
Base: 2**60
10000 loops, best of 3: 92.3 usec per loop
Base: 2**100
10000 loops, best of 3: 145 usec per loop
Base: 2**200
10000 loops, best of 3: 153 usec per loop

Python 2.7: Clear difference in timing once all the numbers we're
using are above 2**64.

rosuav at sikorsky:~$ python3 perftest.py
Sum of numbers from 1 to 10 is: 55
Sum of numbers from 1 to 20 is: 210
Base: 2**0
10000 loops, best of 3: 145 usec per loop
Base: 2**10
10000 loops, best of 3: 144 usec per loop
Base: 2**60
10000 loops, best of 3: 155 usec per loop
Base: 2**100
10000 loops, best of 3: 151 usec per loop
Base: 2**200
10000 loops, best of 3: 156 usec per loop

Python 3.5: Much more consistent timing. Similarly, sticking an
explicit "L" suffix onto the number gives Py2 consistent timings:

rosuav at sikorsky:~$ python perftest.py
Sum of numbers from 1 to 10 is: 55
Sum of numbers from 1 to 20 is: 210
Base: 2**0
10000 loops, best of 3: 130 usec per loop
Base: 2**10
10000 loops, best of 3: 129 usec per loop
Base: 2**60
10000 loops, best of 3: 138 usec per loop
Base: 2**100
10000 loops, best of 3: 139 usec per loop
Base: 2**200
10000 loops, best of 3: 140 usec per loop

So it's the data type, not the size of the numbers, that makes the difference.

rosuav at sikorsky:~$ pike perftest.pike
Sum of numbers from 1 to 10 is: 55
Sum of numbers from 1 to 20 is: 210
Base: 2**0
100000 loops, best of 3: 18.3 usec per loop
Base: 2**10
100000 loops, best of 3: 18.5 usec per loop
Base: 2**60
100000 loops, best of 3: 18.5 usec per loop
Base: 2**100
10000 loops, best of 3: 398 usec per loop
Base: 2**200
10000 loops, best of 3: 406 usec per loop

Like Python 3, Pike has a single "int" type which stores
arbitrary-precision integers. Like Python 2, it has an optimization
for small ones. (One you can't defeat by using "2L".) Interestingly,
once you defeat Pike's optimizer, it's actually quite a lot slower
than Py3 at repeated bignum arithmetic.

Conclusion: Python 3 has one single integer type with consistent
performance across the board. "Machine word" is a meaningless concept
to Py3.

ChrisA


From tjreedy at udel.edu  Sat Apr 11 17:12:14 2015
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Sat, 11 Apr 2015 17:12:14 -0400
Subject: Generarl programming question.
In-Reply-To: <3458425.12qjem4LOE@PointedEars.de>
References: <dcb7fd6b-3a96-47e8-91f6-49b21f7bf605@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.222.1428765309.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <12030326.cc9aoE7jz1@PointedEars.de>
 <mailman.227.1428778121.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <3458425.12qjem4LOE@PointedEars.de>
Message-ID: <mgc2oe$8jr$1@ger.gmane.org>

On 4/11/2015 3:19 PM, Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn wrote:
> Terry Reedy wrote:
>
>> On 4/11/2015 12:23 PM, Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn wrote:
>>> Chris Angelico wrote:
>>>> The 'x' inside each function is completely separate, no matter how
>>>> many times they get called. They're usually stored on something called
>>>> a "call stack" - you put another sheet of paper on top of the stack
>>>> every time you call a function, local variables are all written on
>>>> that paper, and when you return from a function, you discard the top
>>>> sheet and see what's underneath.
>>>
>>> Thank you for that description; I shall use it from now on when teaching
>>> laymen about the call stack.
>>
>> What Chris is describing is one local namespace (sheet of paper) per
>> function *call*.

> I *know* what he is describing: the *call* stack.

My comment above was directed not at you specifically but at the OP, 
Jonas, who appears to have had a mental model (like the following) in 
which recursion is not possible.  I think this mental model is fairly 
common among programming newbies.  And it is not crazy, just obsolete 
and superceded.  And, we constantly talk about a function's local names, 
which is correct, without constantly adding the caveat that in Python 
(and most modern languages) they are instanced per call.

I think of functions as being something like a class, in that each call 
gives a new instance with a new set of named values.

>> In early Fortran (at least the first version I used),
>> there was one local namespace (sheet) per *function*.
>
> The names in such namespaces are now called static variables.  AFAIK, Python
> does not have them, but PHP, for example, has:
>
>    function foo ()
>    {
>      static $bar = 1;
>      $bar *= 2;
>      return $bar;
>    }
>
> The variable $bar then keeps its last value for subsequent calls of foo().

In Python, one can do something similar with attributes, except that 
attributes are easily accessible from outside the function.  Mutable 
defaults probably come closer.

def doubler(_val=[1])"
   _val[0] *= 2
   return _val[0]

print(doubler(), doubler(), doubler())
# 2 4 8

>> The call stack was a stack of (pointers to) functions.
>
> It would appear that the commonly used definition of ?call stack? has
> considerably changed since then, since I have been programming computers for
> more than two decades now (not including FORTRAN, though) and never heard of
> your definition before.

I don't know what the stack required for returns was called in Fortran 
or how it was implemented in any particular compiler.

>> It has been proposed that Python use a hybrid model.  Function objects
>
> Interesting.  I did not know that functions are objects in Python, too.

In Python, everything you can bind a name to is an object, and in 3.x, 
an instance of the base class 'object'.

-- 
Terry Jan Reedy




From cs at zip.com.au  Sat Apr 11 17:37:34 2015
From: cs at zip.com.au (Cameron Simpson)
Date: Sun, 12 Apr 2015 07:37:34 +1000
Subject: try..except with empty exceptions
In-Reply-To: <CAPTjJmpBUct=UXMLdSpBTL8uH56qsMc6AZxg5SC7D=zt7Tqsig@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAPTjJmpBUct=UXMLdSpBTL8uH56qsMc6AZxg5SC7D=zt7Tqsig@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20150411213734.GA78999@cskk.homeip.net>

On 11Apr2015 21:21, Chris Angelico <rosuav at gmail.com> wrote:
>But I agree, it would be very nice if Python 3 could have abolished
>the truly confusing part of this, where "except:" catches everything.
>Forcing people to spell it "except BaseException:" would fix all of
>this. How hard is it to deprecate and then remove that, same as string
>exceptions were removed?

I guess I'll go over there to oppose it then.

Why? It makes it harder to write portable python 2/3 code and does not add any 
semantic advantage.

Unless there's a common root exception class in Python 2, which I believe there 
isn't, you can't catch all exceptions in python 2 without the "except:" syntax.  
Which means the _only_ way to have some code in both 2 and 3 that does it 
requires 2 codebases.

As one who tries to have his code run in both 2 (usually recent 2, like 
2.6/2.7) and 3, this change would cause a signification breakage for me without 
bringing any semantic benefits.

Without vigorous use of the time machine I don't see a fix here.

For the record, I would be ok (but not "for") never having had bare "except" if 
all exceptions had always had a common root.

Hmm. Can I catch "object"? Sounds awful, but might work.

Cheers,
Cameron Simpson <cs at zip.com.au>

EMACS: Escape Meta Alt Control Shift


From rosuav at gmail.com  Sat Apr 11 17:52:51 2015
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Sun, 12 Apr 2015 07:52:51 +1000
Subject: try..except with empty exceptions
In-Reply-To: <20150411213734.GA78999@cskk.homeip.net>
References: <CAPTjJmpBUct=UXMLdSpBTL8uH56qsMc6AZxg5SC7D=zt7Tqsig@mail.gmail.com>
 <20150411213734.GA78999@cskk.homeip.net>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmrVn5w-ix2yoDS0aPKm9krmAO3B8MmdpBNqhevdkhENCw@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, Apr 12, 2015 at 7:37 AM, Cameron Simpson <cs at zip.com.au> wrote:
> On 11Apr2015 21:21, Chris Angelico <rosuav at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> But I agree, it would be very nice if Python 3 could have abolished
>> the truly confusing part of this, where "except:" catches everything.
>> Forcing people to spell it "except BaseException:" would fix all of
>> this. How hard is it to deprecate and then remove that, same as string
>> exceptions were removed?
>
>
> I guess I'll go over there to oppose it then.
>
> Why? It makes it harder to write portable python 2/3 code and does not add
> any semantic advantage.
>
> Unless there's a common root exception class in Python 2, which I believe
> there isn't, you can't catch all exceptions in python 2 without the
> "except:" syntax.  Which means the _only_ way to have some code in both 2
> and 3 that does it requires 2 codebases.
>
> As one who tries to have his code run in both 2 (usually recent 2, like
> 2.6/2.7) and 3, this change would cause a signification breakage for me
> without bringing any semantic benefits.

Can you give an example of a place where in Py2 you absolutely have to
catch everything, and don't have control over the code, *and* are
trying to do a one-codebase routine with Py3 compatibility? If you're
trying for 2/3 compatibility, you'll need to have all your exceptions
derive from BaseException anyway.

At very worst, it could be turned into a compat-only syntax feature,
like the u"spam" noise prefix on Unicode strings - serving absolutely
no purpose in Py3 code, and ideally, able to be removed at some point
post-2020.

ChrisA


From PointedEars at web.de  Sat Apr 11 18:05:18 2015
From: PointedEars at web.de (Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn)
Date: Sun, 12 Apr 2015 00:05:18 +0200
Subject: Generarl programming question.
References: <dcb7fd6b-3a96-47e8-91f6-49b21f7bf605@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.222.1428765309.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <12030326.cc9aoE7jz1@PointedEars.de>
 <mailman.227.1428778121.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <3458425.12qjem4LOE@PointedEars.de>
 <mailman.233.1428786783.12925.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <4867215.Po4C3FaEzt@PointedEars.de>

Terry Reedy wrote:

> On 4/11/2015 3:19 PM, Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn wrote:
>> Terry Reedy wrote:
>>> What Chris is describing is one local namespace (sheet of paper) per
>>> function *call*.
>> I *know* what he is describing: the *call* stack.
> 
> My comment above was directed not at you specifically but at the OP,
> Jonas, [?]

ACK

>> The variable $bar then keeps its last value for subsequent calls of
>> foo().
> 
> In Python, one can do something similar with attributes, except that
> attributes are easily accessible from outside the function.

AISB.  Python?s ?attributes? are named ?properties? elsewhere.

> Mutable defaults probably come closer.
> 
> def doubler(_val=[1])"
>    _val[0] *= 2
>    return _val[0]
> 
> print(doubler(), doubler(), doubler())
> # 2 4 8

Fascinating.  Thanks.

-- 
PointedEars

Twitter: @PointedEars2
Please do not cc me. / Bitte keine Kopien per E-Mail.


From cs at zip.com.au  Sat Apr 11 19:08:00 2015
From: cs at zip.com.au (Cameron Simpson)
Date: Sun, 12 Apr 2015 09:08:00 +1000
Subject: try..except with empty exceptions
In-Reply-To: <CAPTjJmrVn5w-ix2yoDS0aPKm9krmAO3B8MmdpBNqhevdkhENCw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAPTjJmrVn5w-ix2yoDS0aPKm9krmAO3B8MmdpBNqhevdkhENCw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20150411230800.GA26817@cskk.homeip.net>

On 12Apr2015 07:52, Chris Angelico <rosuav at gmail.com> wrote:
>On Sun, Apr 12, 2015 at 7:37 AM, Cameron Simpson <cs at zip.com.au> wrote:
>> On 11Apr2015 21:21, Chris Angelico <rosuav at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> But I agree, it would be very nice if Python 3 could have abolished
>>> the truly confusing part of this, where "except:" catches everything.
>>> Forcing people to spell it "except BaseException:" would fix all of
>>> this. How hard is it to deprecate and then remove that, same as string
>>> exceptions were removed?
>>
>> I guess I'll go over there to oppose it then.
>>
>> Why? It makes it harder to write portable python 2/3 code and does not add
>> any semantic advantage.
>>
>> Unless there's a common root exception class in Python 2, which I believe
>> there isn't, you can't catch all exceptions in python 2 without the
>> "except:" syntax.  Which means the _only_ way to have some code in both 2
>> and 3 that does it requires 2 codebases.
>>
>> As one who tries to have his code run in both 2 (usually recent 2, like
>> 2.6/2.7) and 3, this change would cause a signification breakage for me
>> without bringing any semantic benefits.
>
>Can you give an example of a place where in Py2 you absolutely have to
>catch everything, and don't have control over the code, *and* are
>trying to do a one-codebase routine with Py3 compatibility? If you're
>trying for 2/3 compatibility, you'll need to have all your exceptions
>derive from BaseException anyway.

I don't make many personal exception classes, tending to reuse stdlib ones. I'm 
sure I have a few.

But regarding codebase:

    [hg/css]fleet*> g except: **/*.py
    lib/python/cs/app/pilfer.py:664:              except:
    lib/python/cs/asynchron.py:145:    except:
    lib/python/cs/db.py:184:      except:
    lib/python/cs/excutils.py:34:  except:
    lib/python/cs/fileutils.py:69:  except:
    lib/python/cs/idset.py:46:      except:
    lib/python/cs/later.py:156:    except:
    lib/python/cs/mailutils.py:274:      except:
    lib/python/cs/nodedb/tokcab.py:57:    except:
    lib/python/cs/queues.py:441:          except:
    lib/python/cs/queues.py:458:              except:
    lib/python/cs/threads.py:131:      except:

Catching all exceptions isn't terribly common, _except_ in service routines 
that wrap "unknown" operations. Classic example from my Asynchron class:

    def call(self, func, *a, **kw):
      ''' Have the Asynchron call `func(*a,**kw)` and store its values as
          self.result.
          If `func` raises an exception, store it as self.exc_info.
      '''
      try:
        r = func(*a, **kw)
      except:
        self.exc_info = sys.exc_info
      else:
        self.result = r

All sorts of things like thread pools and other "worker" functions, and 
run-forever daemons like mail filers that can have arbitrary exceptions occur 
in (partly) third party code eg from config files; you need to catch any 
unknown exception and fail the specific action, but continue the main daemon 
operation.

And since I use this code in Python 2, and since not all exceptions are 
BaseException subclasses, I need the bare syntax.

Also, IMO, a bare "except:" syntax is _far_ more pleasing to the eye than 
"except magic_exception_name_that+gets_everything:". Also, I wish 
"BaseException" were just spelled "Exception", if it has to be used.

>At very worst, it could be turned into a compat-only syntax feature,
>like the u"spam" noise prefix on Unicode strings - serving absolutely
>no purpose in Py3 code, and ideally, able to be removed at some point
>post-2020.

I'm -0.1 on the idea myself. I consider "except:" succinct and evocative, and 
prefer it to "except BaseException:".

Cheers,
Cameron Simpson <cs at zip.com.au>

On a videophone, the whole world can see you fart.      - Charlie Stross


From wolfram.hinderer at googlemail.com  Sat Apr 11 19:17:29 2015
From: wolfram.hinderer at googlemail.com (wolfram.hinderer at googlemail.com)
Date: Sat, 11 Apr 2015 16:17:29 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: find all multiplicands and multipliers for a number
In-Reply-To: <87619387c0.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
References: <890bd388-f50a-4dec-9ef5-27715427472a@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.209.1428714381.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <55288135$0$12997$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <87egnrb3il.fsf@jester.gateway.sonic.net> <87619387c0.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
Message-ID: <90a8e07c-adb3-499f-8971-4ea49f6aea4b@googlegroups.com>

Am Samstag, 11. April 2015 09:14:50 UTC+2 schrieb Marko Rauhamaa:
> Paul Rubin <no.email at nospam.invalid>:
> 
> > This takes about 4 seconds on a Intel(R) Core(TM) i5-3230M CPU @ 2.60GHz
> > laptop (64 bit linux):
> 
> Converted to Python3:
> ========================================================================
> #!/usr/bin/env python3
> 
> import itertools, time
> 
> def candidates():
>     yield 2
>     yield 3
>     for i in itertools.count(5,6):
>         yield i
>         yield i+2
> 
> def fac(n):
>     for c in candidates():
>         if c*c > n:
>             yield n
>             break
>         while n%c == 0:
>             yield c
>             n //= c
> 
> t0 = time.time()
> print(list(fac(2**111+1)))
> print(time.time() - t0)
> ========================================================================
> 
> This is slightly faster:
> 
> ========================================================================
> #!/usr/bin/env python3
> 
> import time
> 
> def fac(n):
>     for c in range(n):
>         if c*c > n:
>             yield n
>             break
>         while n%c == 0:
>             yield c
>             n //= c
> 
> t0 = time.time()
> print(list(fac(2**111+1)))
> print(time.time() - t0)
> ========================================================================
> 

I get other results on 3.2.3:

n % 0 raises ZeroDivisionError.
After fixing that by using range(2, n) it takes about three times as long as the original version, which is what I'd expect.


From rosuav at gmail.com  Sat Apr 11 19:21:17 2015
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Sun, 12 Apr 2015 09:21:17 +1000
Subject: try..except with empty exceptions
In-Reply-To: <20150411230800.GA26817@cskk.homeip.net>
References: <CAPTjJmrVn5w-ix2yoDS0aPKm9krmAO3B8MmdpBNqhevdkhENCw@mail.gmail.com>
 <20150411230800.GA26817@cskk.homeip.net>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmoM_nskAS7nkvwu3fMpMNZDzR76EOwZQjm2An+SyKDVqg@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, Apr 12, 2015 at 9:08 AM, Cameron Simpson <cs at zip.com.au> wrote:
> Catching all exceptions isn't terribly common, _except_ in service routines
> that wrap "unknown" operations. Classic example from my Asynchron class:
>
>    def call(self, func, *a, **kw):
>      ''' Have the Asynchron call `func(*a,**kw)` and store its values as
>          self.result.
>          If `func` raises an exception, store it as self.exc_info.
>      '''
>      try:
>        r = func(*a, **kw)
>      except:
>        self.exc_info = sys.exc_info
>      else:
>        self.result = r
>
> All sorts of things like thread pools and other "worker" functions, and
> run-forever daemons like mail filers that can have arbitrary exceptions
> occur in (partly) third party code eg from config files; you need to catch
> any unknown exception and fail the specific action, but continue the main
> daemon operation.
>
> And since I use this code in Python 2, and since not all exceptions are
> BaseException subclasses, I need the bare syntax.

Fair enough. Do you know how often you actually catch stuff that
wouldn't be caught by "except BaseException:"? I would guess it's
pretty rare. In fact, you can find out.

     try:
       r = func(*a, **kw)
     except BaseException:
       self.exc_info = sys.exc_info
     except:
       self.exc_info = sys.exc_info
       emit_warning()
    else:
       self.result = r

You could simply mandate that, from version X.Y of your Asynchron
module onward, old-style classes must not be thrown.

> Also, IMO, a bare "except:" syntax is _far_ more pleasing to the eye than
> "except magic_exception_name_that+gets_everything:". Also, I wish
> "BaseException" were just spelled "Exception", if it has to be used.

> I'm -0.1 on the idea myself. I consider "except:" succinct and evocative,
> and prefer it to "except BaseException:".

What you're looking at here is exactly why it's not spelled that way.
The normal thing to do is NOT to catch absolutely everything, but to
allow KeyboardInterrupt and SystemExit to continue to bubble up.
That's spelled "except Exception". My whole point here is that the
bare except catches too much for normal use, and therefore should
_not_ be pleasing to the eye. The thing you should most often be doing
is "except ValueError" or equivalent; forcing you to put at least
_some_ name into the exception clause emphasizes that being specific
is not the unusual case.

ChrisA


From tjreedy at udel.edu  Sat Apr 11 19:58:50 2015
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Sat, 11 Apr 2015 19:58:50 -0400
Subject: find all multiplicands and multipliers for a number
In-Reply-To: <CAPTjJmpmeNsvToDtw7Cd4pXW0rVF4MdDvUmSQKyJJFJjf=AnUw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <890bd388-f50a-4dec-9ef5-27715427472a@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.209.1428714381.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <55288135$0$12997$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <87egnrb3il.fsf@jester.gateway.sonic.net> <87619387c0.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <87y4lya9eo.fsf@jester.gateway.sonic.net> <87zj6e7erv.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <87pp7aa6x0.fsf@jester.gateway.sonic.net>
 <CAPTjJmpmeNsvToDtw7Cd4pXW0rVF4MdDvUmSQKyJJFJjf=AnUw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <mgccgr$ng2$1@ger.gmane.org>

On 4/11/2015 5:10 PM, Chris Angelico wrote:
> On Sun, Apr 12, 2015 at 3:52 AM, Paul Rubin <no.email at nospam.invalid> wrote:
>>> PS Note that you're being "wasteful" by multiplying c*c over and over
>>
>> Yeah this is a reasonable point, though most of the c's should fit in a
>> machine word, at least in my 64-bit system.  I think Python still
>> separates ints and longs in the implementation.
>
> I don't think it does.

In 3.0, the 2.x int class and intobject.c were removed and the long 
class was renamed int, while longobject.c remained, with code relevant 
to the int class removed. I believe longobject effectively represents 
ints in base 2**15 or 2**30 (or 31?) for 32 and 64 bit machines, so that 
products of 'digits' fit in a single machine word.  (I am not sure if 
the increased size for 64 bit machines was implemented or not.)

 > Performance doesn't seem to change in Py3 as
 > the numbers get bigger:

I suspect the effect is more dramatic with multiplication.

-- 
Terry Jan Reedy



From rosuav at gmail.com  Sat Apr 11 20:16:31 2015
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Sun, 12 Apr 2015 10:16:31 +1000
Subject: find all multiplicands and multipliers for a number
In-Reply-To: <mgccgr$ng2$1@ger.gmane.org>
References: <890bd388-f50a-4dec-9ef5-27715427472a@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.209.1428714381.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <55288135$0$12997$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <87egnrb3il.fsf@jester.gateway.sonic.net>
 <87619387c0.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <87y4lya9eo.fsf@jester.gateway.sonic.net>
 <87zj6e7erv.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <87pp7aa6x0.fsf@jester.gateway.sonic.net>
 <CAPTjJmpmeNsvToDtw7Cd4pXW0rVF4MdDvUmSQKyJJFJjf=AnUw@mail.gmail.com>
 <mgccgr$ng2$1@ger.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmpVaygqnuByHtV5upz4_UfSAwg17tFTOkjh2oFEVboPtA@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, Apr 12, 2015 at 9:58 AM, Terry Reedy <tjreedy at udel.edu> wrote:
> I believe longobject effectively represents ints in base 2**15 or 2**30 (or
> 31?) for 32 and 64 bit machines, so that products of 'digits' fit in a
> single machine word.  (I am not sure if the increased size for 64 bit
> machines was implemented or not.)
>
>> Performance doesn't seem to change in Py3 as
>> the numbers get bigger:
>
> I suspect the effect is more dramatic with multiplication.

Sorry, sloppy language. Of course larger numbers will be a bit slower,
but there's no stark change at the edge of the machine word. The
performance loss from going from one limb to two will be comparable to
the loss from going from five to six, where it's already well past
machine integer. In Py2, there's a significant difference between
"int" performance and "long" performance (regardless of the actual
size of integer involved), but Py3 is more consistent.

It's a missed optimization at worst, but the upshot is that a Python
programmer doesn't need to think about integer sizes at all.

ChrisA


From adm2303.2304 at gmail.com  Sat Apr 11 20:54:27 2015
From: adm2303.2304 at gmail.com (Pippo)
Date: Sat, 11 Apr 2015 17:54:27 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: has anyone used collusion API for creating graphs?
Message-ID: <fc39d490-1297-4f8d-a47a-eb1e61c9eab4@googlegroups.com>

I want to create graphs with using collusion API from annotated text

has anyone used the api? do you have any better suggestion too?


From steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info  Sat Apr 11 22:22:40 2015
From: steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: Sun, 12 Apr 2015 12:22:40 +1000
Subject: find all multiplicands and multipliers for a number
References: <890bd388-f50a-4dec-9ef5-27715427472a@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.209.1428714381.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <55288135$0$12997$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <87egnrb3il.fsf@jester.gateway.sonic.net>
 <5528ceab$0$13013$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <87a8yebp8r.fsf@jester.gateway.sonic.net>
Message-ID: <5529d6f0$0$13009$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

On Sun, 12 Apr 2015 02:31 am, Paul Rubin wrote:

> Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info> writes:
>> [3, 3, 3, 3, 7, 19, 73, 87211, 262657, 1.4411518807585587e+17]
>> Oops, you have a float in there, how did that happen?
> 
> Looks like you are using a broken version of Python.

Well, we know about people who blame their tools ... *wink*

I'm really not using a broken version of Python. You're the one using /=
instead of integer division.

Ah, the penny drops! Are you using Python 2.7 with old-style division? That
would explain it.

Okay, let me do the experiment again, this time with old-division enabled,
using 2.7.


py> n = 2**111 + 1
py> with Stopwatch():
...     pyprimes.factors.factorise(n)
...
[3, 3, 1777, 3331, 17539, 25781083, 107775231312019L]
time taken: 24.011609 seconds
py> with Stopwatch():
...     list(fac(n))
...
[3, 3, 1777, 3331, 17539, 25781083, 107775231312019L]
time taken: 11.743913 seconds

That's certainly an improvement over what I got before, both in time and
correctness. I didn't expect that float arithmetic would be so much slower
than int arithmetic! Go figure.


Here's another demonstration:

py> m = 2**117 - 1
py> with Stopwatch():
...     pyprimes.factors.factorise(m)
...
[7, 73, 79, 937, 6553, 8191, 86113, 121369, 7830118297L]
time taken: 0.089402 seconds
py> with Stopwatch():
...     list(fac(m))
...
[7, 73, 79, 937, 6553, 8191, 86113, 121369, 7830118297L]
time taken: 0.047645 seconds


Nice! Except that your fac() function has a bug: it includes 1 as a prime
factor for some values, which is strictly incorrect.

py> list(fac(4))
[2, 2, 1]

That probably won't make much difference for the speed, but it will
certainly make a difference with the correctness.

Oh:

py> pyprimes.factors.factorise(-1234567)
[-1, 127, 9721]
py> list(fac(-1234567))
[-1234567]


-- 
Steven



From steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info  Sun Apr 12 00:05:38 2015
From: steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: Sun, 12 Apr 2015 14:05:38 +1000
Subject: try..except with empty exceptions
References: <CAPTjJmpBUct=UXMLdSpBTL8uH56qsMc6AZxg5SC7D=zt7Tqsig@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.234.1428788263.12925.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <5529ef13$0$12976$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

On Sun, 12 Apr 2015 07:37 am, Cameron Simpson wrote:

> On 11Apr2015 21:21, Chris Angelico <rosuav at gmail.com> wrote:
>>But I agree, it would be very nice if Python 3 could have abolished
>>the truly confusing part of this, where "except:" catches everything.
>>Forcing people to spell it "except BaseException:" would fix all of
>>this. How hard is it to deprecate and then remove that, same as string
>>exceptions were removed?
> 
> I guess I'll go over there to oppose it then.
> 
> Why? It makes it harder to write portable python 2/3 code and does not add
> any semantic advantage.

I don't think it does make it harder to write hybrid 2+3 applications.

The thing is, in 3, you *must* inherit from BaseException. String exceptions
are gone (they were removed in 2.6, so if you're still using them, you code
won't even run in 2.6 or 2.7). Old-style classes are gone, so your classic
exceptions will automatically be promoted to new-style classes.

class MyException:
    pass

In 2.x code, that can be raised and caught. But not in 3.x, so if you are
writing hybrid code you have to change that anyway! It's surely a trivial
change:

class MyException(Exception):
    pass


Now you can raise it in both 2.x and 3.x, and you can catch it with "except
Exception", as recommended.

Now, *technically* there are things that are possible with classic classes
in 2.x which are hard or impossible once you inherit from Exception, but
(1) I don't imagine that exceptions will use them, and (2) you still have
to deal with that when migrating anyway, so you are no worse off.

[To be precise, I'm referring to things like the ability to override dunder
methods on a per-instance basis. Want to give this specific instance, and
no other, the ability to support + addition? You can with classic classes,
but not easily with new-style classes. But who is going to want to do that
for an exception?]



> Unless there's a common root exception class in Python 2, which I believe
> there isn't, you can't catch all exceptions in python 2 without the
> "except:" syntax. 

Correct.


> Which means the _only_ way to have some code in both 2 
> and 3 that does it requires 2 codebases.

You would think so, but not really. The thing is, if you want to use a
single codebase, you cannot *raise* strings, or classic classes that don't
inherit from BaseException, not even in your 2.x code. Since you aren't
raising them, there's no need to catch them!

In hybrid code running under 2.x, a non-BaseException exception (NBEE) is a
bug to be fixed. The fact that you are no longer catching it in 2.x is a
good thing, because that forces you to find the offending code which raises
the NBEE and fix it.


 
> As one who tries to have his code run in both 2 (usually recent 2, like
> 2.6/2.7) and 3, this change would cause a signification breakage for me
> without bringing any semantic benefits.

I think that the only way that would be true is if you are referring to a
*library*, rather than an application. In other words, you have:

- a single code base with hybrid 2+3 code;

- your users are integrating it with other people's code (perhaps their own)
  which you do not control, i.e. it is a library, not an application;

- that 3rd party code raises string exceptions (up to 2.5) or classic NBEE;

- you have to catch those exceptions, and cannot just say to your users "we
  don't support non-BaseException exceptions any more".

Life is tough for library authors who want to support old code :-(


The solution, as I see it, would be to extract only the bits of your code
that does the exception handling, and split it into two separate files:

# catcher2.py
from common import dostuff
try: 
    ...
except BaseException:
    dostuff()
except:
    warnings.warn("fix your code, you neanderthal!")
    dostuff()

# catcher3.py
from common import dostuff
try:
    ...
except BaseException:
    dostuff()


and then conditionally import one or the other. Alternatively, you can use
exec, and a single file.

I wouldn't say that either solution thrills me. If I were in that position,
I would simply document that string exceptions and classic-class exceptions
are no longer supported, and make my users responsible for fixing or
replacing the third-party code that raises such things.



> Without vigorous use of the time machine I don't see a fix here.
> 
> For the record, I would be ok (but not "for") never having had bare
> "except" if all exceptions had always had a common root.
> 
> Hmm. Can I catch "object"? Sounds awful, but might work.

No.

http://bugs.python.org/issue2291

See also PEP 352, which explains some of the motivation of the post 2.4
changes to exceptions, and the expected timeline for changes leading up to
3.x. (Some of the PEP is a bit obsolete, it still refers to Python 2.9
being the last of the 2.x series.)

http://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0352/



-- 
Steven



From steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info  Sun Apr 12 00:18:47 2015
From: steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: Sun, 12 Apr 2015 14:18:47 +1000
Subject: try..except with empty exceptions
References: <CAPTjJmrVn5w-ix2yoDS0aPKm9krmAO3B8MmdpBNqhevdkhENCw@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.236.1428793684.12925.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <5529f229$0$13010$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

On Sun, 12 Apr 2015 09:08 am, Cameron Simpson wrote:

> Also, IMO, a bare "except:" syntax is far more pleasing to the eye than
> "except magic_exception_name_that+gets_everything:".


And that is exactly what makes bare excepts an attractive nuisance!

I'm going to channel a newbie, cowboy or just plain lazy coder:


"I have a block of code with a bug. Bugs are bad. I know, I'll wrap it in

try:
    block
except:
    pass

and the bug will go away!"

It looks nice and requires relatively little typing. It seems like something
you should do, but it doesn't fix the problem, chances are it just makes it
worse. I've spotted many real-world examples where bare excepts mask the
presence of actual bugs, where the intention is clearly to catch a single
exception:

    try:
        return mylist[0]
    except:
        # empty list
        return None


Forcing people to type an exception will discourage such cowboy coding. If
the choice is between

    except BaseException:

instead of the lazy "except:" version, and

    except IndexError:

which do you think people will write?



> Also, I wish
> "BaseException" were just spelled "Exception", if it has to be used.

Most of the time, "catch everything" should mean catching Exception, not
BaseException. Broadly speaking, built-in exceptions which are
considered "errors" inherit from Exception, and the small number that don't
are used for some variation of control-flow:

StopIteration
GeneratorExit
KeyboardInterrupt
SysExit


Most of the time when people say "catch everything" they mean catch all
errors, i.e. Exception, rather than "don't let the user interrupt the code
using KeyboardInterrupt".

See also PEP 352:

http://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0352/

-- 
Steven



From no.email at nospam.invalid  Sun Apr 12 00:24:30 2015
From: no.email at nospam.invalid (Paul Rubin)
Date: Sat, 11 Apr 2015 21:24:30 -0700
Subject: find all multiplicands and multipliers for a number
References: <890bd388-f50a-4dec-9ef5-27715427472a@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.209.1428714381.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <55288135$0$12997$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <87egnrb3il.fsf@jester.gateway.sonic.net>
 <5528ceab$0$13013$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <87a8yebp8r.fsf@jester.gateway.sonic.net>
 <5529d6f0$0$13009$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <87d23a9doh.fsf@jester.gateway.sonic.net>

Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info> writes:
> Ah, the penny drops! Are you using Python 2.7 with old-style division? That
> would explain it.

Yes, see also the use of the print statement in that post.  I'm
surprised the code compiled at all in Python 3.

> Nice! Except that your fac() function has a bug: it includes 1 as a prime
> factor for some values, which is strictly incorrect.

Good catch, I noticed that too after posting.  

This might be of interest:

http://wrap.warwick.ac.uk/54707/1/WRAP_Hart_S1446788712000146a.pdf

I haven't tried figuring it out or coding it yet.


From steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info  Sun Apr 12 00:29:29 2015
From: steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: Sun, 12 Apr 2015 14:29:29 +1000
Subject: find all multiplicands and multipliers for a number
References: <890bd388-f50a-4dec-9ef5-27715427472a@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.209.1428714381.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <55288135$0$12997$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <87egnrb3il.fsf@jester.gateway.sonic.net>
 <5528ceab$0$13013$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <87a8yebp8r.fsf@jester.gateway.sonic.net>
 <5529d6f0$0$13009$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <87d23a9doh.fsf@jester.gateway.sonic.net>
Message-ID: <5529f4aa$0$13002$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

On Sun, 12 Apr 2015 02:24 pm, Paul Rubin wrote:

> Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info> writes:
>> Ah, the penny drops! Are you using Python 2.7 with old-style division?
>> That would explain it.
> 
> Yes, see also the use of the print statement in that post.  I'm
> surprised the code compiled at all in Python 3.

I wasn't using Python 3. I was using 2.7 with "from __future__ import
division", as the BDFL intended :-)


>> Nice! Except that your fac() function has a bug: it includes 1 as a prime
>> factor for some values, which is strictly incorrect.
> 
> Good catch, I noticed that too after posting.
> 
> This might be of interest:
> 
> http://wrap.warwick.ac.uk/54707/1/WRAP_Hart_S1446788712000146a.pdf
> 
> I haven't tried figuring it out or coding it yet.

Thanks!


-- 
Steven



From steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info  Sun Apr 12 01:04:55 2015
From: steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: Sun, 12 Apr 2015 15:04:55 +1000
Subject: Generarl programming question.
References: <dcb7fd6b-3a96-47e8-91f6-49b21f7bf605@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.222.1428765309.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <12030326.cc9aoE7jz1@PointedEars.de>
 <mailman.227.1428778121.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <3458425.12qjem4LOE@PointedEars.de>
 <mailman.233.1428786783.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <4867215.Po4C3FaEzt@PointedEars.de>
Message-ID: <5529fcf7$0$12996$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

Thomas, before I reply to your comment, I have a meta-comment to make.

Your signature says "Please do not cc me. / Bitte keine Kopien per E-Mail."
which suggests that you do not want to be emailed. But your post included
an explicit "Mail-Copies-To: usenet at PointedEars.de" header which compliant
news readers should interpret as "reply by email as well as news".

So which is lying? Your sig, that says not to email you, or the
Mail-Copies-To header, which says to email you?

Back to Python...


On Sun, 12 Apr 2015 08:05 am, Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn wrote:

>> In Python, one can do something similar with attributes, except that
>> attributes are easily accessible from outside the function.
> 
> AISB. ?Python?s ?attributes? are named ?properties? elsewhere.

Other common names include ?members? (mostly in C++ I believe)
and ?variables? (mostly Java, I believe). I think using ?variable? to
describe an attribute/property/member of an object is a terrible idea.



-- 
Steven



From cs at zip.com.au  Sun Apr 12 02:33:39 2015
From: cs at zip.com.au (Cameron Simpson)
Date: Sun, 12 Apr 2015 16:33:39 +1000
Subject: try..except with empty exceptions
In-Reply-To: <CAPTjJmoM_nskAS7nkvwu3fMpMNZDzR76EOwZQjm2An+SyKDVqg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAPTjJmoM_nskAS7nkvwu3fMpMNZDzR76EOwZQjm2An+SyKDVqg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20150412063339.GA16977@cskk.homeip.net>

On 12Apr2015 09:21, Chris Angelico <rosuav at gmail.com> wrote:
>On Sun, Apr 12, 2015 at 9:08 AM, Cameron Simpson <cs at zip.com.au> wrote:
>> Catching all exceptions isn't terribly common, _except_ in service routines
>> that wrap "unknown" operations. Classic example from my Asynchron class: [...]
>>
>>      try:
>>        r = func(*a, **kw)
>>      except:
>>        self.exc_info = sys.exc_info
>>      else:
>>        self.result = r
>>
>> All sorts of things like thread pools and other "worker" functions, and
>> run-forever daemons like mail filers that can have arbitrary exceptions
>> occur in (partly) third party code eg from config files; you need to catch
>> any unknown exception and fail the specific action, but continue the main
>> daemon operation.
>>
>> And since I use this code in Python 2, and since not all exceptions are
>> BaseException subclasses, I need the bare syntax.
>
>Fair enough. Do you know how often you actually catch stuff that
>wouldn't be caught by "except BaseException:"?

I don't know and I'm not sure I care (but discussion below). I would need to 
examine carefully what they were. Looking at the 2.7.9 doco for Exception it 
almost looks like that is what I should often want. (Though I think I have some 
circumstances where I might prefer BaseException.)

>I would guess it's
>pretty rare. In fact, you can find out.
>
>     try:
>       r = func(*a, **kw)
>     except BaseException:
>       self.exc_info = sys.exc_info
>     except:
>       self.exc_info = sys.exc_info
>       emit_warning()
>    else:
>       self.result = r
>
>You could simply mandate that, from version X.Y of your Asynchron
>module onward, old-style classes must not be thrown.

Except that Asynchron, like several of the other circumstances, is expected to 
be used with arbitrary callables from outside sources.

>> Also, IMO, a bare "except:" syntax is _far_ more pleasing to the eye than
>> "except magic_exception_name_that+gets_everything:". Also, I wish
>> "BaseException" were just spelled "Exception", if it has to be used.
>
>> I'm -0.1 on the idea myself. I consider "except:" succinct and evocative,
>> and prefer it to "except BaseException:".
>
>What you're looking at here is exactly why it's not spelled that way.
>The normal thing to do is NOT to catch absolutely everything, but to
>allow KeyboardInterrupt and SystemExit to continue to bubble up.
>That's spelled "except Exception".

Yes. But can I guarrentee that those are the only two? The 2.7.9 doco says:

   exception Exception
       All built-in, non-system-exiting exceptions are derived from this class.

I suppose I could consider that clear, but certainly in case of 
KeyboardInterrupt I might want to involve cleanup actions. I'll ignore 
interactive situations; messy.

>My whole point here is that the bare except catches too much for normal use, 
>and therefore should _not_ be pleasing to the eye. The thing you should most 
>often be doing is "except ValueError" or equivalent; forcing you to put at 
>least _some_ name into the exception clause emphasizes that being specific
>is not the unusual case.

Yes. But it seems to me that "normal use" generally means the situation where 
one catches a quite narrow set of exceptions for which particular recoveries 
are well defined.

However, when I want "all exceptions", that really is what I mean. I need to 
think quite carefully about KeyboardInterrupt and SystemExit. The former is 
guarrenteed to be delivered to the main thread IIRC and I'd want to catch that 
specificly in my main() function, if at all. And I suspect that SystemExit 
really shouldn't be stopped; if something untoward is calling it, should it not 
succeed? Or be exposed and then hunted down and killed!

So your argument for "except Exception:" is quite compelling for many 
situations where I do currently use "except:". I will review them and have a 
proper think.

However, my Asynchron class really is a little special. I use Asynchron to 
underpin a bunch of classes whose instances get fulfilled later, especially 
callables that get queued and run at a suitable time (or which get run in 
response to some external long awaited event). So, example sketch:

  L = Later()
  ...
  # LF is a "LateFunction", a subclass of Asynchron
  LF = L.defer(function, *a, **kw)
  ...
  try:
    result = LF()
  except Whatever as e:
    ...

My Later class serves a purpose much like the futures module and I suppose a 
LateFunction is somewhat like a future.

Anyway, at some point in the above example "function" gets called (by the 
infrastructure of "Later") with the supplied arguments as the Later processes 
its queue.

The user can collect the result by calling "LF()" whenever they like, as though 
they were calling "function()" directly.  If the function has already run, the 
value is returned or whatever exception _it_ raised is raised now. Otherwise it 
blocks until the function is run; same behaviour for the caller except for a 
delay.

So in this situation: should I catch and defer KeyboardInterrupt or SystemExit?  
Maybe not, but the clean/naive implementation says to catch absolutely 
everything.

Finally, if we were to expunge support for "except:", one would also need a 
cast iron guarrentee that no exception could possibly occur which was not a 
subclass of BaseException. I'd expect that to mean that "raise" of a 
non-instance of BaseException to itself raise a TypeError.

Thoughts?

Cheers,
Cameron Simpson <cs at zip.com.au>

What's fair got to do with it? It's going to happen.    - Lawrence of Arabia


From cs at zip.com.au  Sun Apr 12 02:41:23 2015
From: cs at zip.com.au (Cameron Simpson)
Date: Sun, 12 Apr 2015 16:41:23 +1000
Subject: try..except with empty exceptions
In-Reply-To: <20150412063339.GA16977@cskk.homeip.net>
References: <20150412063339.GA16977@cskk.homeip.net>
Message-ID: <20150412064123.GA2438@cskk.homeip.net>

On 12Apr2015 16:33, Cameron Simpson <cs at zip.com.au> wrote:
>Finally, if we were to expunge support for "except:", one would also need a 
>cast iron guarrentee that no exception could possibly occur which was not a 
>subclass of BaseException. I'd expect that to mean that "raise" of a 
>non-instance of BaseException to itself raise a TypeError.

And I see that Steven D'Aprano has already pointed out PEP 352:

  http://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0352/

which is marked "Status: Final". It says:

  The raise statement will be changed to require that any object passed to it 
  must inherit from BaseException. This will make sure that all exceptions fall 
  within a single hierarchy that is anchored at BaseException [2] . This also 
  guarantees a basic interface that is inherited from BaseException. The change 
  to raise will be enforced starting in Python 3.0 (see the Transition Plan 
  below).

Hmm. Not in 2.7? I can see the breakage it could cause, but where does that 
leave me? I think I could probably move to catching Exception almost across the 
board even in 2.5+ and feel pretty good.

Cheers,
Cameron Simpson <cs at zip.com.au>

If your new theorem can be stated with great simplicity, then there
will exist a pathological exception.    - Adrian Mathesis


From cs at zip.com.au  Sun Apr 12 02:47:05 2015
From: cs at zip.com.au (Cameron Simpson)
Date: Sun, 12 Apr 2015 16:47:05 +1000
Subject: try..except with empty exceptions
In-Reply-To: <5529f229$0$13010$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
References: <5529f229$0$13010$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <20150412064705.GA16329@cskk.homeip.net>

On 12Apr2015 14:18, Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info> wrote:
>On Sun, 12 Apr 2015 09:08 am, Cameron Simpson wrote:
>> Also, IMO, a bare "except:" syntax is far more pleasing to the eye than
>> "except magic_exception_name_that+gets_everything:".
>
>And that is exactly what makes bare excepts an attractive nuisance!
>
>I'm going to channel a newbie, cowboy or just plain lazy coder:
>"I have a block of code with a bug. Bugs are bad. I know, I'll wrap it in
>
>try:
>    block
>except:
>    pass
>
>and the bug will go away!"

And haven't we all seen that _many_ times on this list:-)

>It looks nice and requires relatively little typing. It seems like something
>you should do, but it doesn't fix the problem, chances are it just makes it
>worse.

And do not get me started on Makefiles which finish every compile command in 
"2>/dev/null" :-(

>I've spotted many real-world examples where bare excepts mask the
>presence of actual bugs, where the intention is clearly to catch a single
>exception: [...]
>Forcing people to type an exception will discourage such cowboy coding. If
>the choice is between
>
>    except BaseException:
>
>instead of the lazy "except:" version, and
>
>    except IndexError:
>
>which do you think people will write?

I fear that the just-beyond-beginner might write "Exception", but your point is 
well taken.

>> Also, I wish
>> "BaseException" were just spelled "Exception", if it has to be used.
>
>Most of the time, "catch everything" should mean catching Exception, not
>BaseException. Broadly speaking, built-in exceptions which are
>considered "errors" inherit from Exception, and the small number that don't
>are used for some variation of control-flow:
>
>StopIteration
>GeneratorExit
>KeyboardInterrupt
>SysExit
>
>Most of the time when people say "catch everything" they mean catch all
>errors, i.e. Exception, rather than "don't let the user interrupt the code
>using KeyboardInterrupt".

Yes, I see that this is true.

And I have special pain in some of my code which then causes me to specificly 
catch NameError ahead of my bare (or mostly bare) excepts because that usually 
indicates some stupid typo on my part, causing silent breakage and debugging 
hell. Ghastly.

>See also PEP 352:
>http://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0352/

Thank you for this.

Cheers,
Cameron Simpson <cs at zip.com.au>

To be or not to be?    Not to be.
        - John Slater (Arnold Schwartzenegger),
          _Macbeth_ (_The_Last_Action_Hero_)


From rosuav at gmail.com  Sun Apr 12 03:00:18 2015
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Sun, 12 Apr 2015 17:00:18 +1000
Subject: try..except with empty exceptions
In-Reply-To: <20150412063339.GA16977@cskk.homeip.net>
References: <CAPTjJmoM_nskAS7nkvwu3fMpMNZDzR76EOwZQjm2An+SyKDVqg@mail.gmail.com>
 <20150412063339.GA16977@cskk.homeip.net>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmr=BTWeBZHCghN2DP7ON_MOzxJJTGNj1khJmDpKNg+gwg@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, Apr 12, 2015 at 4:33 PM, Cameron Simpson <cs at zip.com.au> wrote:
> On 12Apr2015 09:21, Chris Angelico <rosuav at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Fair enough. Do you know how often you actually catch stuff that
>> wouldn't be caught by "except BaseException:"?
>
>
> I don't know and I'm not sure I care (but discussion below). I would need to
> examine carefully what they were. Looking at the 2.7.9 doco for Exception it
> almost looks like that is what I should often want. (Though I think I have
> some circumstances where I might prefer BaseException.)

A very good reason to avoid "except:" and always put some name in
there. Forces you to think about which of the two you want.

>> You could simply mandate that, from version X.Y of your Asynchron
>> module onward, old-style classes must not be thrown.
>
> Except that Asynchron, like several of the other circumstances, is expected
> to be used with arbitrary callables from outside sources.

Yes, but you have version requirements already. You can't expect
someone to deploy Asynchron on Python 2.1, I would guess. In the same
way, you can simply state that raising what Steven referred to as an
NBEE will cause problems.

>> What you're looking at here is exactly why it's not spelled that way.
>> The normal thing to do is NOT to catch absolutely everything, but to
>> allow KeyboardInterrupt and SystemExit to continue to bubble up.
>> That's spelled "except Exception".
>
>
> Yes. But can I guarrentee that those are the only two? The 2.7.9 doco says:
>
>   exception Exception
>       All built-in, non-system-exiting exceptions are derived from this
> class.
>
> I suppose I could consider that clear, but certainly in case of
> KeyboardInterrupt I might want to involve cleanup actions. I'll ignore
> interactive situations; messy.

That's what try/finally is for. You can do your cleanup without caring
exactly what was raised.

> Yes. But it seems to me that "normal use" generally means the situation
> where one catches a quite narrow set of exceptions for which particular
> recoveries are well defined.

That is, in fact, the most normal way to catch exceptions. What you're
doing here is a distinctly abnormal situation: creating a protective
boundary between two separate layers.

> However, when I want "all exceptions", that really is what I mean. I need to
> think quite carefully about KeyboardInterrupt and SystemExit. The former is
> guarrenteed to be delivered to the main thread IIRC and I'd want to catch
> that specificly in my main() function, if at all. And I suspect that
> SystemExit really shouldn't be stopped; if something untoward is calling it,
> should it not succeed? Or be exposed and then hunted down and killed!

That's what you have to decide, yeah. Chances are you just want to
catch Exception in a lot of the cases.

> However, my Asynchron class really is a little special. I use Asynchron to
> underpin a bunch of classes whose instances get fulfilled later, especially
> callables that get queued and run at a suitable time (or which get run in
> response to some external long awaited event). ...
> Anyway, at some point in the above example "function" gets called (by the
> infrastructure of "Later") with the supplied arguments as the Later
> processes its queue.
>
> So in this situation: should I catch and defer KeyboardInterrupt or
> SystemExit?  Maybe not, but the clean/naive implementation says to catch
> absolutely everything.

That is a tough one. I would support either of BaseException and
Exception for this case, and whichever you pick, there will be a time
when you wish you'd picked the other. But at least now you get a
chance to think about it.

> Finally, if we were to expunge support for "except:", one would also need a
> cast iron guarrentee that no exception could possibly occur which was not a
> subclass of BaseException. I'd expect that to mean that "raise" of a
> non-instance of BaseException to itself raise a TypeError.

As of Py3, that is indeed the case. In Py2, you can at least run
"python -3" and get a DeprecatoinWarning any time you attempt to raise
a NBEE; I don't know if you can make that into an error. But even if
you can't, all you have to do is explain that it's equivalent to any
other form of shooting yourself in the foot.

ChrisA


From marko at pacujo.net  Sun Apr 12 03:17:15 2015
From: marko at pacujo.net (Marko Rauhamaa)
Date: Sun, 12 Apr 2015 10:17:15 +0300
Subject: find all multiplicands and multipliers for a number
References: <890bd388-f50a-4dec-9ef5-27715427472a@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.209.1428714381.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <55288135$0$12997$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <87egnrb3il.fsf@jester.gateway.sonic.net>
 <87619387c0.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <90a8e07c-adb3-499f-8971-4ea49f6aea4b@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <87lhhx7r44.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>

wolfram.hinderer at googlemail.com:

> I get other results on 3.2.3:
>
> n % 0 raises ZeroDivisionError.
> After fixing that by using range(2, n) it takes about three times as
> long as the original version, which is what I'd expect.

You're right. I got wrong results because I ran a wrong command!

The range(2, n) version is 3 times slower than the candidates() version.

And in fact, the sqrt optimization now makes the original version 20%
faster:

========================================================================
#!/usr/bin/env python3

import itertools, time, math

def candidates():
    yield 2
    yield 3
    for i in itertools.count(5,6):
        yield i
        yield i+2

def fac(n):
    bound = int(math.sqrt(n))
    for c in candidates():
        if c > bound:
            yield n
            break
        if n%c == 0:
            yield c
            n //= c
            while n%c == 0:
                yield c
                n //= c
            bound = int(math.sqrt(n))

t0 = time.time()
print(list(fac(2**111+1)))
print(time.time() - t0)
========================================================================


Marko


From blindanagram at nowhere.net  Sun Apr 12 05:34:33 2015
From: blindanagram at nowhere.net (Brian Gladman)
Date: Sun, 12 Apr 2015 10:34:33 +0100
Subject: find all multiplicands and multipliers for a number
In-Reply-To: <55288135$0$12997$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
References: <890bd388-f50a-4dec-9ef5-27715427472a@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.209.1428714381.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <55288135$0$12997$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <06adnWNKq9m6obfInZ2dnUVZ7tqdnZ2d@brightview.co.uk>

On 11/04/2015 03:04, Steven D'Aprano wrote:

> It may be a bit slow for very large numbers. On my computer, this takes 20
> seconds:
> 
> py> pyprimes.factors.factorise(2**111+1)
> [3, 3, 1777, 3331, 17539, 25781083, 107775231312019L]
> 
> 
> but that is the nature of factorising large numbers.
> 
> http://code.google.com/p/pyprimes/source/browse/

I don'tknow how well it compares more generally but where large amounts
of memory are available a simple sieve works quite well. I have an
implementation available here (in Python 3):

http://ccgi.gladman.plus.com/wp/?page_id=1500

where:

>>> from number_theory import factors
>>> print(tuple(factor(2 ** 111 + 1)))
((3, 2), (1777, 1) , (3331, 1), (17539, 1), (25781083, 1),
(107775231312019, 1))

runs in less than 2 seconds on my laptop.



From cs at zip.com.au  Sun Apr 12 06:00:08 2015
From: cs at zip.com.au (Cameron Simpson)
Date: Sun, 12 Apr 2015 20:00:08 +1000
Subject: try..except with empty exceptions
In-Reply-To: <CAPTjJmr=BTWeBZHCghN2DP7ON_MOzxJJTGNj1khJmDpKNg+gwg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAPTjJmr=BTWeBZHCghN2DP7ON_MOzxJJTGNj1khJmDpKNg+gwg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20150412100008.GA79238@cskk.homeip.net>

On 12Apr2015 17:00, Chris Angelico <rosuav at gmail.com> wrote:
>On Sun, Apr 12, 2015 at 4:33 PM, Cameron Simpson <cs at zip.com.au> wrote:
[...]
>That's what try/finally is for. You can do your cleanup without caring
>exactly what was raised.

Hmm, yes.

[...]
>> However, my Asynchron class really is a little special. I use Asynchron to
>> underpin a bunch of classes whose instances get fulfilled later, especially
>> callables that get queued and run at a suitable time (or which get run in
>> response to some external long awaited event). ...
>> Anyway, at some point in the above example "function" gets called (by the
>> infrastructure of "Later") with the supplied arguments as the Later
>> processes its queue.
>>
>> So in this situation: should I catch and defer KeyboardInterrupt or
>> SystemExit?  Maybe not, but the clean/naive implementation says to catch
>> absolutely everything.
>
>That is a tough one. I would support either of BaseException and
>Exception for this case, and whichever you pick, there will be a time
>when you wish you'd picked the other. But at least now you get a
>chance to think about it. [...]

On reflection I'm probably going to go after a bunch of my in-other-thread 
things that handle "unknown" callables and do something like:

  self.result = None
  self.exc_info = None
  try:
    r = func(...)
  except Exception:
    self.exc_info = sys.exc_info
  except BaseException as e:
    self.exc_info = sys.exc_info
    exception("unexpected BaseException: %s", e)
  else:
    self.result = r

to catch and report the weirdos. And I might write a little decorator to report 
and reraise NameError to avoid certain times of silent asynchronous failure I 
have to debug.

Colour me convinced, and +0.5 for proposals to retire bare "except".

Behold:

  [hg/css]fleet*> hg clone . ../css-remove-except:
  updating to branch default
  2871 files updated, 0 files merged, 0 files removed, 0 files unresolved

Unnamed branch to change my practices:-)

Cheers,
Cameron Simpson <cs at zip.com.au>

... It beeped and said "Countdown initiated." Is that bad?


From steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info  Sun Apr 12 06:48:39 2015
From: steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: Sun, 12 Apr 2015 20:48:39 +1000
Subject: Primes [was Re: find all multiplicands and multipliers for a number]
References: <890bd388-f50a-4dec-9ef5-27715427472a@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.209.1428714381.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <55288135$0$12997$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <87egnrb3il.fsf@jester.gateway.sonic.net> <87619387c0.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <90a8e07c-adb3-499f-8971-4ea49f6aea4b@googlegroups.com>
 <87lhhx7r44.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
Message-ID: <552a4d88$0$13000$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

On Sun, 12 Apr 2015 05:17 pm, Marko Rauhamaa wrote:

> The range(2, n) version is 3 times slower than the candidates() version.
> 
> And in fact, the sqrt optimization now makes the original version 20%
> faster:


MY pyprimes module includes a series of progressively better (or, in the
opposite direction, progressively worse) prime number generators. The doc
string for the pyprimes.awful module says:

"""
This is a collection of awful and naive prime-related functions, supplied
for educational purposes, as toys, curios, or as terrible warnings on
what **not** to do.

None of these methods have acceptable performance in practice; they are
barely tolerable even for the first 100 primes.
"""

It starts off with an adaptation of the very first prime generator I ever
wrote, in RPL on a HP calculator oh so many years ago. It was more or less
a naive implementation of the mathematical definition: for each candidate
prime n, I test it against *every* potential divisor starting with 2 and
ending with n-1. Yes, I actually did write that for real.

Not surprisingly, it starts off horribly slow, and gets ever slower as the
primes get further apart. Over the first 1000 primes, it is five times
slower than the second worst performer, and about 1430 times slower than
the best performer.

Starting with that as the base:

- stopping once you hit a factor gives you a factor of 5 speed up;
- skipping even numbers (apart from 2) gives you an additional 
  factor of 2 speed up;
- stopping at the square root of n instead of going all the way to 
  n-1 gives you an additional speed up of 16 times;

- dividing only by primes rather than all odd numbers *slows* the
  function down by about 5%, at least for generating the first 
  1000 primes.

Dividing only by primes doesn't pay off until you get to about fifty
thousand primes or so.

So that's a good example of how some optimizations don't pay off until you
get to sufficiently large inputs. Even so, none of those four "awful" trial
division generators perform well enough to use in production. For that, you
have to start using a sieve algorithm.



On my computer, I get these results for generating the first 1000 primes:


[steve at ando src]$ python2.7 pyprimes/speed.py
Calculating speeds for first 1000 primes...
Done!
Total elapsed time: 5.6 seconds

Generator                             Elapsed    Speed
                                      (sec)      (primes/sec)
==============================================================
pyprimes.awful.primes0                4.14         241.8
pyprimes.awful.primes1                0.79        1271.8
pyprimes.awful.primes2                0.41        2445.5
pyprimes.awful.turner                 0.18        5495.9
pyprimes.probabilistic.primes         0.03       30840.5
pyprimes.awful.primes4                0.03       38853.1
pyprimes.awful.primes3                0.02       40940.0
pyprimes.sieves.sieve                 0.01      133742.7
pyprimes.sieves.cookbook              0.01      194028.0
pyprimes.sieves.wheel                 0.00      206483.7
pyprimes.sieves.croft                 0.00      344359.9
==============================================================




Here are the results for the four sieves, taken over the first million
primes.



Calculating speeds for first 1000000 primes...
Done!
Total elapsed time: 167.2 seconds

Generator                             Elapsed    Speed
                                      (sec)      (primes/sec)
==============================================================
pyprimes.sieves.wheel                 122.50        8163.4
pyprimes.sieves.sieve                 17.09       58509.9
pyprimes.sieves.cookbook              16.52       60520.6
pyprimes.sieves.croft                 10.48       95445.0
==============================================================


The Croft Spiral algorithm averages 95 thousand primes per second over the
first million primes, significantly better than the next best algorithm.
I'm not sure why the wheel algorithm starts off so promising and then falls
so badly behind the other three.


http://code.google.com/p/pyprimes/source/browse/



-- 
Steven



From steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info  Sun Apr 12 10:29:05 2015
From: steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 2015 00:29:05 +1000
Subject: find all multiplicands and multipliers for a number
References: <890bd388-f50a-4dec-9ef5-27715427472a@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.209.1428714381.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <55288135$0$12997$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <06adnWNKq9m6obfInZ2dnUVZ7tqdnZ2d@brightview.co.uk>
Message-ID: <552a8132$0$13007$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

On Sun, 12 Apr 2015 07:34 pm, Brian Gladman wrote:

> On 11/04/2015 03:04, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> 
>> It may be a bit slow for very large numbers. On my computer, this takes
>> 20 seconds:
>> 
>> py> pyprimes.factors.factorise(2**111+1)
>> [3, 3, 1777, 3331, 17539, 25781083, 107775231312019L]
>> 
>> 
>> but that is the nature of factorising large numbers.
>> 
>> http://code.google.com/p/pyprimes/source/browse/
> 
> I don'tknow how well it compares more generally but where large amounts
> of memory are available a simple sieve works quite well. I have an
> implementation available here (in Python 3):
> 
> http://ccgi.gladman.plus.com/wp/?page_id=1500

Um, "simple sieve"? You're using Miller-Rabin to check for candidate prime
factors. I don't think that counts as a simple sieve :-)



> where:
> 
>>>> from number_theory import factors
>>>> print(tuple(factor(2 ** 111 + 1)))
> ((3, 2), (1777, 1) , (3331, 1), (17539, 1), (25781083, 1),
> (107775231312019, 1))
> 
> runs in less than 2 seconds on my laptop.


Although it is not directly comparable to the sieve version I used above, on
my machine I get:

py> import number_theory
py> with Stopwatch():
...     list(number_theory.factors(2**111+1))
...
[3, 3, 1777, 3331, 17539, 25781083, 107775231312019]
time taken: 5.823970 seconds


so there is a quite good speedup available from using Miller-Rabin. But it's
not a simple sieve any more.

By the way, it is possible to get guaranteed deterministic
(non-probabilistic) results with Miller-Rabin, for small integers. By small
I mean less than 2**64. See my pyprimes for details.



-- 
Steven



From no.email at nospam.invalid  Sun Apr 12 13:20:41 2015
From: no.email at nospam.invalid (Paul Rubin)
Date: Sun, 12 Apr 2015 10:20:41 -0700
Subject: find all multiplicands and multipliers for a number
References: <890bd388-f50a-4dec-9ef5-27715427472a@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.209.1428714381.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <55288135$0$12997$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <06adnWNKq9m6obfInZ2dnUVZ7tqdnZ2d@brightview.co.uk>
 <552a8132$0$13007$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <878udx9sba.fsf@jester.gateway.sonic.net>

Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info> writes:
> Um, "simple sieve"? You're using Miller-Rabin to check for candidate
> prime factors. I don't think that counts as a simple sieve :-)

How does Miller-Rabin help?  It has to cost more than trial division.

Meanwhile, trial division up to 100000 is almost instantaneous and gives
the factorization

  [3, 3, 1777, 3331, 17539, 2778562183799360736577L]

where the last factor is composite.

    def pollard(n):
        def g(x): return (x*x+1) % n
        x = y = 2
        while True:
            x,y = g(x), g(g(y))
            d = gcd(abs(x-y), n)
            if d != 1:
                return d

   print pollard(2778562183799360736577L)

finds the factor 25781083 almost instantly.  

Verifying that 25781083 and the remaining factor is prime, and patching
all the code together to factorize in one operation, is left as an
exercise ;-).

Note that the Pollard routine is not guaranteed to find a nontrivial
factor.  If it fails, try a starting value other than 2.  This is also
left as an exercise.


From no.email at nospam.invalid  Sun Apr 12 13:23:30 2015
From: no.email at nospam.invalid (Paul Rubin)
Date: Sun, 12 Apr 2015 10:23:30 -0700
Subject: find all multiplicands and multipliers for a number
References: <890bd388-f50a-4dec-9ef5-27715427472a@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.209.1428714381.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <55288135$0$12997$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <06adnWNKq9m6obfInZ2dnUVZ7tqdnZ2d@brightview.co.uk>
 <552a8132$0$13007$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <878udx9sba.fsf@jester.gateway.sonic.net>
Message-ID: <874mol9s6l.fsf@jester.gateway.sonic.net>

Paul Rubin <no.email at nospam.invalid> writes:
>            ...  d = gcd(abs(x-y), n) ...
>    print pollard(2778562183799360736577L)
> finds the factor 25781083 almost instantly.  
>

Whoops, you need this too:

    def gcd(x,y):
        while True:
            x,y = y,x%y
            if y==0: return x


From Cecil at decebal.nl  Sun Apr 12 13:48:53 2015
From: Cecil at decebal.nl (Cecil Westerhof)
Date: Sun, 12 Apr 2015 19:48:53 +0200
Subject: Getting rid of 
Message-ID: <87k2xh9r0a.fsf@Equus.decebal.nl>

I am playing a little bit with libturpial. I got a few warnings. Most
I could get rid of, but one I still get, while I have done what is
said in the reference of the warning.

Example code:
    #!/usr/bin/env python
    
    import certifi
    import urllib3
    import urllib3.contrib.pyopenssl
    
    from libturpial.api.core import Core
    
    urllib3.contrib.pyopenssl.inject_into_urllib3()
    
    http = urllib3.PoolManager(
        cert_reqs='CERT_REQUIRED', # Force certificate check.
        ca_certs=certifi.where(),  # Path to the Certifi bundle.
    )
    
    Core()

What should I do to get rid of the warnings:
    /usr/lib/python2.7/site-packages/requests-2.6.0-py2.7.egg/requests/packages/urllib3/connectionpool.py:769: InsecureRequestWarning: Unverified HTTPS request is being made. Adding certificate verification is strongly advised. See: https://urllib3.readthedocs.org/en/latest/security.html
      InsecureRequestWarning)
    /usr/lib/python2.7/site-packages/requests-2.6.0-py2.7.egg/requests/packages/urllib3/connectionpool.py:769: InsecureRequestWarning: Unverified HTTPS request is being made. Adding certificate verification is strongly advised. See: https://urllib3.readthedocs.org/en/latest/security.html
      InsecureRequestWarning)
    /usr/lib/python2.7/site-packages/requests-2.6.0-py2.7.egg/requests/packages/urllib3/connectionpool.py:769: InsecureRequestWarning: Unverified HTTPS request is being made. Adding certificate verification is strongly advised. See: https://urllib3.readthedocs.org/en/latest/security.html
      InsecureRequestWarning)

-- 
Cecil Westerhof
Senior Software Engineer
LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/cecilwesterhof


From denismfmcmahon at gmail.com  Sun Apr 12 14:54:05 2015
From: denismfmcmahon at gmail.com (Denis McMahon)
Date: Sun, 12 Apr 2015 18:54:05 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Getting rid of
References: <87k2xh9r0a.fsf@Equus.decebal.nl>
Message-ID: <mgef0d$rpd$1@dont-email.me>

On Sun, 12 Apr 2015 19:48:53 +0200, Cecil Westerhof wrote:

> What should I do to get rid of the warnings:
>     /usr/lib/python2.7/site-packages/requests-2.6.0-py2.7.egg/requests/
packages/urllib3/connectionpool.py:769:
>     InsecureRequestWarning: Unverified HTTPS request is being made.
>     Adding certificate verification is strongly advised. See:
>     https://urllib3.readthedocs.org/en/latest/security.html
>       InsecureRequestWarning)

Have you checked that your certificates file exists? You can find the 
location using the python console:

$ python

>>> import certifi
>>> certifi.where()

'/usr/local/lib/python2.7/dist-packages/certifi/cacert.pem'

>>> exit()

And then check the location from the command line:

$ ls -l /usr/local/lib/python2.7/dist-packages/certifi/cacert.pem

-rw-r--r-- 1 root staff 315159 Apr 12 19:46 /usr/local/lib/python2.7/dist-
packages/certifi/cacert.pem

$ 

-- 
Denis McMahon, denismfmcmahon at gmail.com


From blindanagram at nowhere.net  Sun Apr 12 15:07:39 2015
From: blindanagram at nowhere.net (Brian Gladman)
Date: Sun, 12 Apr 2015 20:07:39 +0100
Subject: find all multiplicands and multipliers for a number
In-Reply-To: <552a8132$0$13007$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
References: <890bd388-f50a-4dec-9ef5-27715427472a@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.209.1428714381.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <55288135$0$12997$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <06adnWNKq9m6obfInZ2dnUVZ7tqdnZ2d@brightview.co.uk>
 <552a8132$0$13007$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <qIadnacoz_bkX7fInZ2dnUVZ7r6dnZ2d@brightview.co.uk>

On 12/04/2015 15:29, Steven D'Aprano wrote:

>> I don'tknow how well it compares more generally but where large amounts
>> of memory are available a simple sieve works quite well. I have an
>> implementation available here (in Python 3):
>>
>> http://ccgi.gladman.plus.com/wp/?page_id=1500
> 
> Um, "simple sieve"? You're using Miller-Rabin to check for candidate prime
> factors. I don't think that counts as a simple sieve :-)
> 
What I meant here is that the underlying sieve on which factoring
depends - Primes() - is a simple one.  I'm sorry that I didn't make this
clearer.  I agree, of course, that the factoring code itself is more
complex than others are experimenting with but I am using it in
situations where I want it to work reasonbly well for quite large
numbers.

> so there is a quite good speedup available from using Miller-Rabin. But it's
> not a simple sieve any more.
> 
> By the way, it is possible to get guaranteed deterministic
> (non-probabilistic) results with Miller-Rabin, for small integers. By small
> I mean less than 2**64. See my pyprimes for details.

Yes, I have a more complex version but the simple one works well enough
in this context and finds very large primes that would otherwise stall
the code.

Thanks for taking a look.

   Brian



From blindanagram at nowhere.net  Sun Apr 12 15:15:51 2015
From: blindanagram at nowhere.net (Brian Gladman)
Date: Sun, 12 Apr 2015 20:15:51 +0100
Subject: find all multiplicands and multipliers for a number
In-Reply-To: <878udx9sba.fsf@jester.gateway.sonic.net>
References: <890bd388-f50a-4dec-9ef5-27715427472a@googlegroups.com>	<mailman.209.1428714381.12925.python-list@python.org>	<55288135$0$12997$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>	<06adnWNKq9m6obfInZ2dnUVZ7tqdnZ2d@brightview.co.uk>	<552a8132$0$13007$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <878udx9sba.fsf@jester.gateway.sonic.net>
Message-ID: <FbidneTX2pD4WbfInZ2dnUVZ7q2dnZ2d@brightview.co.uk>

On 12/04/2015 18:20, Paul Rubin wrote:
> Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info> writes:
>> Um, "simple sieve"? You're using Miller-Rabin to check for candidate
>> prime factors. I don't think that counts as a simple sieve :-)
> 
> How does Miller-Rabin help?  It has to cost more than trial division.

As we factor the number with increasing prime values from a simple
sieve, if the number remaining to be factored is still large it can then
be efficient to run a prime test to see if what remains is prime.



From Cecil at decebal.nl  Sun Apr 12 15:27:30 2015
From: Cecil at decebal.nl (Cecil Westerhof)
Date: Sun, 12 Apr 2015 21:27:30 +0200
Subject: Getting rid of
References: <87k2xh9r0a.fsf@Equus.decebal.nl> <mgef0d$rpd$1@dont-email.me>
Message-ID: <87fv859mfx.fsf@Equus.decebal.nl>

Op Sunday 12 Apr 2015 20:54 CEST schreef Denis McMahon:

> On Sun, 12 Apr 2015 19:48:53 +0200, Cecil Westerhof wrote:
>
>> What should I do to get rid of the warnings:
>> /usr/lib/python2.7/site-packages/requests-2.6.0-py2.7.egg/requests/
> packages/urllib3/connectionpool.py:769:
>> InsecureRequestWarning: Unverified HTTPS request is being made.
>> Adding certificate verification is strongly advised. See:
>> https://urllib3.readthedocs.org/en/latest/security.html
>> InsecureRequestWarning)
>
> Have you checked that your certificates file exists? You can find
> the location using the python console:
>
> $ python
>
>>>> import certifi
>>>> certifi.where()
>
> '/usr/local/lib/python2.7/dist-packages/certifi/cacert.pem'
>
>>>> exit()
>
> And then check the location from the command line:
>
> $ ls -l /usr/local/lib/python2.7/dist-packages/certifi/cacert.pem
>
> -rw-r--r-- 1 root staff 315159 Apr 12 19:46
> /usr/local/lib/python2.7/dist- packages/certifi/cacert.pem

It is another location, but it does exist and has the same lenght as
yours, so probably it is OK:
    -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 315159 Apr 11 20:43 /usr/lib/python2.7/site-packages/certifi/cacert.pem

When you run my script you do not get warnings?

-- 
Cecil Westerhof
Senior Software Engineer
LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/cecilwesterhof


From squ106595 at gmail.com  Sun Apr 12 15:44:06 2015
From: squ106595 at gmail.com (mahmoud alnafei)
Date: Sun, 12 Apr 2015 12:44:06 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: error with Firefox Binary 'The browser appears to have exited'
Message-ID: <925b3953-6273-4e6b-8e64-de093a20fc34@googlegroups.com>

I have problem with selenium and Firefox when i run my code below:

    from selenium import webdriver
    from selenium.common.exceptions import TimeoutException
    from selenium.webdriver.support.ui import WebDriverWait
    from selenium.webdriver.support import expected_conditions as EC
    from bs4 import BeautifulSoup
    import urllib2,cookielib
    import re
    from pyvirtualdisplay import Display
    import urllib
    import urllib2
    import httplib2
    from os import system

    display = Display(visible=0, size=(800, 600))
    display.start()

    name = 'test'
    driver = webdriver.Firefox()
    driver.get("http://example.com")
    driver.switch_to_default_content()
    inputElement = driver.find_element_by_name("name")
    inputElement.send_keys(name)
    inputElement.submit()
    print "Please wait for 5s to get results.."
    content = driver.page_source.encode("utf-8")
    html = str(content)
    soup = BeautifulSoup(html)
    print soup
    display.stop()
    driver.close()




And i get this error:

    Exception in thread command9:
    Traceback (most recent call last):
      File "/usr/local/lib/python2.7/threading.py", line 551, in __bootstrap_inner
        self.run()
      File "/usr/local/lib/python2.7/threading.py", line 504, in run
        self.__target(*self.__args, **self.__kwargs)
      File "plugins/help_plugin.py", line 165, in handler_search
        search_number_ar(type, source, parameters)
      File "plugins/test.py", line 230, in search_test
        driver = webdriver.Firefox()
      File "/usr/local/lib/python2.7/site-packages/selenium-2.45.0-py2.7.egg/selenium/webdriver/firefox/webdriver.py", line 59, in __init__
        self.binary, timeout),
      File "/usr/local/lib/python2.7/site-packages/selenium-2.45.0-py2.7.egg/selenium/webdriver/firefox/extension_connection.py", line 47, in __init__
        self.binary.launch_browser(self.profile)
      File "/usr/local/lib/python2.7/site-packages/selenium-2.45.0-py2.7.egg/selenium/webdriver/firefox/firefox_binary.py", line 66, in launch_browser
        self._wait_until_connectable()
      File "/usr/local/lib/python2.7/site-packages/selenium-2.45.0-py2.7.egg/selenium/webdriver/firefox/firefox_binary.py", line 100, in _wait_until_connectable
        raise WebDriverException("The browser appears to have exited "
    WebDriverException: Message: The browser appears to have exited before we could connect. If you specified a log_file in the FirefoxBinary constructor, check it for details.


my code running in vps and i use selenium-2.45.0 and firefox-38.0b3 . I try alot of ways to solve my problem but nothing working with me. I try to update selenium and i try to downgrade firefox and alot of solution.

Just to know when i run my code for the first time it work but when i run it again it show me the above error.
I have Python2.7 .

I hope someone help me.


From no.email at nospam.invalid  Sun Apr 12 15:45:12 2015
From: no.email at nospam.invalid (Paul Rubin)
Date: Sun, 12 Apr 2015 12:45:12 -0700
Subject: find all multiplicands and multipliers for a number
References: <890bd388-f50a-4dec-9ef5-27715427472a@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.209.1428714381.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <55288135$0$12997$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <06adnWNKq9m6obfInZ2dnUVZ7tqdnZ2d@brightview.co.uk>
 <552a8132$0$13007$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <878udx9sba.fsf@jester.gateway.sonic.net>
 <FbidneTX2pD4WbfInZ2dnUVZ7q2dnZ2d@brightview.co.uk>
Message-ID: <87zj6d871z.fsf@jester.gateway.sonic.net>

Brian Gladman <blindanagram at nowhere.net> writes:
> As we factor the number with increasing prime values from a simple
> sieve, if the number remaining to be factored is still large it can then
> be efficient to run a prime test to see if what remains is prime.

In the case of 2**111+1, the second-largest prime factor is larger than
the sqrt of the largest one.  Therefore, the obvious trial division
strategy should have stopped as soon as the second-largest factor was
found, since what remained had to be prime.  I agree that this logic
doesn't apply to something like the rho algorithm, where you get a
factor that might not be the smallest one.


From janhein.vanderburg at gmail.com  Sun Apr 12 16:50:51 2015
From: janhein.vanderburg at gmail.com (janhein.vanderburg at gmail.com)
Date: Sun, 12 Apr 2015 13:50:51 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: python implementation of a new integer encoding algorithm.
In-Reply-To: <mailman.164.1428581054.12925.python-list@python.org>
References: <e45a71b2-7ec0-4c7d-88ae-c48aebe154b7@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.18784.1424182393.18130.python-list@python.org>
 <515047c1-a20d-430e-a029-1c2d77db2f1a@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.18823.1424278025.18130.python-list@python.org>
 <2a717ffb-d61d-4407-9082-1c17cd7ee573@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.18839.1424298000.18130.python-list@python.org>
 <993f64c3-fc85-48a7-9d02-a4f12ecb33c6@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.18894.1424370292.18130.python-list@python.org>
 <c6007d78-7c21-4841-814f-4ca529889298@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.164.1428581054.12925.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <07f12c79-fe40-41f3-8573-d5142c8d05fb@googlegroups.com>

Op donderdag 9 april 2015 14:04:25 UTC+2 schreef Dave Angel:
> I still don't see where you have anywhere declared what your goal is. 
Sorry that you didn't like the improvements to the stop bit encoding that I illustrated in http://optarbvalintenc.blogspot.nl/2015/04/the-new-proposal.html and the 8 bit prototype presented in http://optarbvalintenc.blogspot.nl/2015/04/the-8-bit-prototype.html

I agree that we should stop this thread and I invite everybody to continue the discussion on the blog itself.


From denismfmcmahon at gmail.com  Sun Apr 12 17:46:48 2015
From: denismfmcmahon at gmail.com (Denis McMahon)
Date: Sun, 12 Apr 2015 21:46:48 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Getting rid of
References: <87k2xh9r0a.fsf@Equus.decebal.nl> <mgef0d$rpd$1@dont-email.me>
 <87fv859mfx.fsf@Equus.decebal.nl>
Message-ID: <mgep48$seg$1@dont-email.me>

On Sun, 12 Apr 2015 21:27:30 +0200, Cecil Westerhof wrote:

> When you run my script you do not get warnings?

I ran into too many issues trying to install the modules I needed to try 
and run it.

-- 
Denis McMahon, denismfmcmahon at gmail.com


From adm2303.2304 at gmail.com  Sun Apr 12 18:49:11 2015
From: adm2303.2304 at gmail.com (Pippo)
Date: Sun, 12 Apr 2015 15:49:11 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Regular Expression
Message-ID: <804485a5-6201-4210-b80e-54214c592aa0@googlegroups.com>

I have a text as follows:

"#D{#C[Health] #P[Information] - 
means any information, including #ST[genetic information],
whether #C[oral | (recorded in (any form | medium))], that 
(1)#C[Is created or received by] a 
#A[health care provider | health plan | public health authority | employer | life insurer | school | university | or health care clearinghouse];  
(2)#C[Relates to] #C[the past, present, or future physical | mental health | condition of an individual] | 
#C[the provision of health care to an individual] | 
#C[the past, present, or future payment for the provision of health care to an individual].}"

I want to get all elements that start with #C and are []  and put it in an array. For example #C[Health], I try with regex but it doesn't work:

import re
import tkinter.filedialog
import readfile



j = 0

text = [ ]


content = readfile.pattread()

while j < len(content):

    constraint = re.compile(r'(#C\[\w*\]'))
    result = constraint.search(content[j],re.MULTILINE)
    text.append(result)
    print(text)
    j = j+1


From python at mrabarnett.plus.com  Sun Apr 12 19:28:22 2015
From: python at mrabarnett.plus.com (MRAB)
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 2015 00:28:22 +0100
Subject: Regular Expression
In-Reply-To: <804485a5-6201-4210-b80e-54214c592aa0@googlegroups.com>
References: <804485a5-6201-4210-b80e-54214c592aa0@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <552AFF96.8090004@mrabarnett.plus.com>

On 2015-04-12 23:49, Pippo wrote:
> I have a text as follows:
>
> "#D{#C[Health] #P[Information] -
> means any information, including #ST[genetic information],
> whether #C[oral | (recorded in (any form | medium))], that
> (1)#C[Is created or received by] a
> #A[health care provider | health plan | public health authority | employer | life insurer | school | university | or health care clearinghouse];
> (2)#C[Relates to] #C[the past, present, or future physical | mental health | condition of an individual] |
> #C[the provision of health care to an individual] |
> #C[the past, present, or future payment for the provision of health care to an individual].}"
>
> I want to get all elements that start with #C and are []  and put it in an array. For example #C[Health], I try with regex but it doesn't work:
>
"... it doesn't work"? In what way doesn't it work?

> import re
> import tkinter.filedialog
> import readfile
>
>
>
> j = 0
>
> text = [ ]
>
>
> content = readfile.pattread()
>
> while j < len(content):
>
There's a syntax error here:

>      constraint = re.compile(r'(#C\[\w*\]'))
>      result = constraint.search(content[j],re.MULTILINE)
>      text.append(result)
>      print(text)
>      j = j+1
>



From ben+python at benfinney.id.au  Sun Apr 12 19:42:36 2015
From: ben+python at benfinney.id.au (Ben Finney)
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 2015 09:42:36 +1000
Subject: Regular Expression
References: <804485a5-6201-4210-b80e-54214c592aa0@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <85wq1gx6ab.fsf@benfinney.id.au>

Pippo <adm2303.2304 at gmail.com> writes:

> I try with regex but it doesn't work:

Thank you for providing a short, self-contained example.

What does this code do when you try? If there is an error, please post
the full traceback exactly (cut and paste the traceback text).

What are you expecting it to do, and how is that different from what it
does do?

-- 
 \         ?The userbase for strong cryptography declines by half with |
  `\      every additional keystroke or mouseclick required to make it |
_o__)                                             work.? ?Carl Ellison |
Ben Finney



From adm2303.2304 at gmail.com  Sun Apr 12 19:43:41 2015
From: adm2303.2304 at gmail.com (Pippo)
Date: Sun, 12 Apr 2015 16:43:41 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Regular Expression
In-Reply-To: <mailman.252.1428881312.12925.python-list@python.org>
References: <804485a5-6201-4210-b80e-54214c592aa0@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.252.1428881312.12925.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <9fa1ef44-3199-49b7-a45f-b24581b7c75b@googlegroups.com>

On Sunday, 12 April 2015 19:28:44 UTC-4, MRAB  wrote:
> On 2015-04-12 23:49, Pippo wrote:
> > I have a text as follows:
> >
> > "#D{#C[Health] #P[Information] -
> > means any information, including #ST[genetic information],
> > whether #C[oral | (recorded in (any form | medium))], that
> > (1)#C[Is created or received by] a
> > #A[health care provider | health plan | public health authority | employer | life insurer | school | university | or health care clearinghouse];
> > (2)#C[Relates to] #C[the past, present, or future physical | mental health | condition of an individual] |
> > #C[the provision of health care to an individual] |
> > #C[the past, present, or future payment for the provision of health care to an individual].}"
> >
> > I want to get all elements that start with #C and are []  and put it in an array. For example #C[Health], I try with regex but it doesn't work:
> >
> "... it doesn't work"? In what way doesn't it work?
> 
> > import re
> > import tkinter.filedialog
> > import readfile
> >
> >
> >
> > j = 0
> >
> > text = [ ]
> >
> >
> > content = readfile.pattread()
> >
> > while j < len(content):
> >
> There's a syntax error here:
> 
> >      constraint = re.compile(r'(#C\[\w*\]'))
> >      result = constraint.search(content[j],re.MULTILINE)
> >      text.append(result)
> >      print(text)
> >      j = j+1
> >

result is empty! Although it should have a content.

What is the syntax error? 


From adm2303.2304 at gmail.com  Sun Apr 12 19:47:00 2015
From: adm2303.2304 at gmail.com (Pippo)
Date: Sun, 12 Apr 2015 16:47:00 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Regular Expression
In-Reply-To: <9fa1ef44-3199-49b7-a45f-b24581b7c75b@googlegroups.com>
References: <804485a5-6201-4210-b80e-54214c592aa0@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.252.1428881312.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <9fa1ef44-3199-49b7-a45f-b24581b7c75b@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <420e36c2-904a-41db-9fa3-0b0965aa59ec@googlegroups.com>

On Sunday, 12 April 2015 19:44:05 UTC-4, Pippo  wrote:
> On Sunday, 12 April 2015 19:28:44 UTC-4, MRAB  wrote:
> > On 2015-04-12 23:49, Pippo wrote:
> > > I have a text as follows:
> > >
> > > "#D{#C[Health] #P[Information] -
> > > means any information, including #ST[genetic information],
> > > whether #C[oral | (recorded in (any form | medium))], that
> > > (1)#C[Is created or received by] a
> > > #A[health care provider | health plan | public health authority | employer | life insurer | school | university | or health care clearinghouse];
> > > (2)#C[Relates to] #C[the past, present, or future physical | mental health | condition of an individual] |
> > > #C[the provision of health care to an individual] |
> > > #C[the past, present, or future payment for the provision of health care to an individual].}"
> > >
> > > I want to get all elements that start with #C and are []  and put it in an array. For example #C[Health], I try with regex but it doesn't work:
> > >
> > "... it doesn't work"? In what way doesn't it work?
> > 
> > > import re
> > > import tkinter.filedialog
> > > import readfile
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > j = 0
> > >
> > > text = [ ]
> > >
> > >
> > > content = readfile.pattread()
> > >
> > > while j < len(content):
> > >
> > There's a syntax error here:
> > 
> > >      constraint = re.compile(r'(#C\[\w*\]'))
> > >      result = constraint.search(content[j],re.MULTILINE)
> > >      text.append(result)
> > >      print(text)
> > >      j = j+1
> > >
> 
> result is empty! Although it should have a content.
> 
> What is the syntax error?

I fixed the syntax error but the result shows:

>>> 
[None]
[None, None]
[None, None, None]
[None, None, None, None]
[None, None, None, None, None]
[None, None, None, None, None, None]
[None, None, None, None, None, None, None]
[None, None, None, None, None, None, None, None]
>>> 


No error but if I don't call the content I posted up and call this as a content: #content = "#C[Health] #P[Information]"

result gives me #C[Health]


From adm2303.2304 at gmail.com  Sun Apr 12 19:57:00 2015
From: adm2303.2304 at gmail.com (Pippo)
Date: Sun, 12 Apr 2015 16:57:00 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Regular Expression
In-Reply-To: <420e36c2-904a-41db-9fa3-0b0965aa59ec@googlegroups.com>
References: <804485a5-6201-4210-b80e-54214c592aa0@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.252.1428881312.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <9fa1ef44-3199-49b7-a45f-b24581b7c75b@googlegroups.com>
 <420e36c2-904a-41db-9fa3-0b0965aa59ec@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <3c5f137a-68c3-468e-a46f-0e52ad3da560@googlegroups.com>

On Sunday, 12 April 2015 19:47:09 UTC-4, Pippo  wrote:
> On Sunday, 12 April 2015 19:44:05 UTC-4, Pippo  wrote:
> > On Sunday, 12 April 2015 19:28:44 UTC-4, MRAB  wrote:
> > > On 2015-04-12 23:49, Pippo wrote:
> > > > I have a text as follows:
> > > >
> > > > "#D{#C[Health] #P[Information] -
> > > > means any information, including #ST[genetic information],
> > > > whether #C[oral | (recorded in (any form | medium))], that
> > > > (1)#C[Is created or received by] a
> > > > #A[health care provider | health plan | public health authority | employer | life insurer | school | university | or health care clearinghouse];
> > > > (2)#C[Relates to] #C[the past, present, or future physical | mental health | condition of an individual] |
> > > > #C[the provision of health care to an individual] |
> > > > #C[the past, present, or future payment for the provision of health care to an individual].}"
> > > >
> > > > I want to get all elements that start with #C and are []  and put it in an array. For example #C[Health], I try with regex but it doesn't work:
> > > >
> > > "... it doesn't work"? In what way doesn't it work?
> > > 
> > > > import re
> > > > import tkinter.filedialog
> > > > import readfile
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > j = 0
> > > >
> > > > text = [ ]
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > content = readfile.pattread()
> > > >
> > > > while j < len(content):
> > > >
> > > There's a syntax error here:
> > > 
> > > >      constraint = re.compile(r'(#C\[\w*\]'))
> > > >      result = constraint.search(content[j],re.MULTILINE)
> > > >      text.append(result)
> > > >      print(text)
> > > >      j = j+1
> > > >
> > 
> > result is empty! Although it should have a content.
> > 
> > What is the syntax error?
> 
> I fixed the syntax error but the result shows:
> 
> >>> 
> [None]
> [None, None]
> [None, None, None]
> [None, None, None, None]
> [None, None, None, None, None]
> [None, None, None, None, None, None]
> [None, None, None, None, None, None, None]
> [None, None, None, None, None, None, None, None]
> >>> 
> 
> 
> No error but if I don't call the content I posted up and call this as a content: #content = "#C[Health] #P[Information]"
> 
> result gives me #C[Health]

what is the best way to separate the elements in the [] from the text?


From python at mrabarnett.plus.com  Sun Apr 12 20:05:03 2015
From: python at mrabarnett.plus.com (MRAB)
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 2015 01:05:03 +0100
Subject: Regular Expression
In-Reply-To: <420e36c2-904a-41db-9fa3-0b0965aa59ec@googlegroups.com>
References: <804485a5-6201-4210-b80e-54214c592aa0@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.252.1428881312.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <9fa1ef44-3199-49b7-a45f-b24581b7c75b@googlegroups.com>
 <420e36c2-904a-41db-9fa3-0b0965aa59ec@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <552B082F.2020504@mrabarnett.plus.com>

On 2015-04-13 00:47, Pippo wrote:
> On Sunday, 12 April 2015 19:44:05 UTC-4, Pippo  wrote:
>> On Sunday, 12 April 2015 19:28:44 UTC-4, MRAB  wrote:
>> > On 2015-04-12 23:49, Pippo wrote:
>> > > I have a text as follows:
>> > >
>> > > "#D{#C[Health] #P[Information] -
>> > > means any information, including #ST[genetic information],
>> > > whether #C[oral | (recorded in (any form | medium))], that
>> > > (1)#C[Is created or received by] a
>> > > #A[health care provider | health plan | public health authority | employer | life insurer | school | university | or health care clearinghouse];
>> > > (2)#C[Relates to] #C[the past, present, or future physical | mental health | condition of an individual] |
>> > > #C[the provision of health care to an individual] |
>> > > #C[the past, present, or future payment for the provision of health care to an individual].}"
>> > >
>> > > I want to get all elements that start with #C and are []  and put it in an array. For example #C[Health], I try with regex but it doesn't work:
>> > >
>> > "... it doesn't work"? In what way doesn't it work?
>> >
>> > > import re
>> > > import tkinter.filedialog
>> > > import readfile
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > j = 0
>> > >
>> > > text = [ ]
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > content = readfile.pattread()
>> > >
>> > > while j < len(content):
>> > >
>> > There's a syntax error here:
>> >
>> > >      constraint = re.compile(r'(#C\[\w*\]'))
>> > >      result = constraint.search(content[j],re.MULTILINE)
>> > >      text.append(result)
>> > >      print(text)
>> > >      j = j+1
>> > >
>>
>> result is empty! Although it should have a content.
>>
>> What is the syntax error?
>
> I fixed the syntax error but the result shows:
>
>>>>
> [None]
> [None, None]
> [None, None, None]
> [None, None, None, None]
> [None, None, None, None, None]
> [None, None, None, None, None, None]
> [None, None, None, None, None, None, None]
> [None, None, None, None, None, None, None, None]
>>>>
>
>
> No error but if I don't call the content I posted up and call this as a content: #content = "#C[Health] #P[Information]"
>
> result gives me #C[Health]
>
What does 'readfile.pattread()' return? Does it return a list of
strings? I'm guessing it does.

Try printing each string you're trying to match using 'repr', i.e.:

     print(repr(content[j]))

Do any look like they should match?

If one doesn't, but you think it should, post it here so that someone
can tell you why it doesn't! :-)



From adm2303.2304 at gmail.com  Sun Apr 12 20:25:30 2015
From: adm2303.2304 at gmail.com (Pippo)
Date: Sun, 12 Apr 2015 17:25:30 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Regular Expression
In-Reply-To: <mailman.254.1428883508.12925.python-list@python.org>
References: <804485a5-6201-4210-b80e-54214c592aa0@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.252.1428881312.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <9fa1ef44-3199-49b7-a45f-b24581b7c75b@googlegroups.com>
 <420e36c2-904a-41db-9fa3-0b0965aa59ec@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.254.1428883508.12925.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <aca71ce4-19a0-4fc5-a3b9-f333b8774043@googlegroups.com>

On Sunday, 12 April 2015 20:06:08 UTC-4, MRAB  wrote:
> On 2015-04-13 00:47, Pippo wrote:
> > On Sunday, 12 April 2015 19:44:05 UTC-4, Pippo  wrote:
> >> On Sunday, 12 April 2015 19:28:44 UTC-4, MRAB  wrote:
> >> > On 2015-04-12 23:49, Pippo wrote:
> >> > > I have a text as follows:
> >> > >
> >> > > "#D{#C[Health] #P[Information] -
> >> > > means any information, including #ST[genetic information],
> >> > > whether #C[oral | (recorded in (any form | medium))], that
> >> > > (1)#C[Is created or received by] a
> >> > > #A[health care provider | health plan | public health authority | employer | life insurer | school | university | or health care clearinghouse];
> >> > > (2)#C[Relates to] #C[the past, present, or future physical | mental health | condition of an individual] |
> >> > > #C[the provision of health care to an individual] |
> >> > > #C[the past, present, or future payment for the provision of health care to an individual].}"
> >> > >
> >> > > I want to get all elements that start with #C and are []  and put it in an array. For example #C[Health], I try with regex but it doesn't work:
> >> > >
> >> > "... it doesn't work"? In what way doesn't it work?
> >> >
> >> > > import re
> >> > > import tkinter.filedialog
> >> > > import readfile
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > > j = 0
> >> > >
> >> > > text = [ ]
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > > content = readfile.pattread()
> >> > >
> >> > > while j < len(content):
> >> > >
> >> > There's a syntax error here:
> >> >
> >> > >      constraint = re.compile(r'(#C\[\w*\]'))
> >> > >      result = constraint.search(content[j],re.MULTILINE)
> >> > >      text.append(result)
> >> > >      print(text)
> >> > >      j = j+1
> >> > >
> >>
> >> result is empty! Although it should have a content.
> >>
> >> What is the syntax error?
> >
> > I fixed the syntax error but the result shows:
> >
> >>>>
> > [None]
> > [None, None]
> > [None, None, None]
> > [None, None, None, None]
> > [None, None, None, None, None]
> > [None, None, None, None, None, None]
> > [None, None, None, None, None, None, None]
> > [None, None, None, None, None, None, None, None]
> >>>>
> >
> >
> > No error but if I don't call the content I posted up and call this as a content: #content = "#C[Health] #P[Information]"
> >
> > result gives me #C[Health]
> >
> What does 'readfile.pattread()' return? Does it return a list of
> strings? I'm guessing it does.

yes it reads a file of string similar to the one I posted above

> 
> Try printing each string you're trying to match using 'repr', i.e.:
> 
>      print(repr(content[j]))
> 
> Do any look like they should match?

 print(repr(content[j])) gives me the following:

[None]
'#D{#C[Health] #P[Information] - \n'
[None, None]
'means any information, including #ST[genetic information], \n'
[None, None, None]
'whether #C[oral | (recorded in (any form | medium))], that \n'
[None, None, None, None]
'(1)#C[Is created or received by] a \n'
[None, None, None, None, None]
'#A[health care provider | health plan | public health authority | employer | life insurer | school | university | or health care clearinghouse];  \n'
[None, None, None, None, None, None]
'(2)#C[Relates to] #C[the past, present, or future physical | mental health | condition of an individual] | \n'
[None, None, None, None, None, None, None]
'#C[the provision of health care to an individual] | \n'
[None, None, None, None, None, None, None, None]
'#C[the past, present, or future payment for the provision of health care to an individual].}\n'

shouldn't it match "#C[Health]" in the first row? If not, what is the best way to fetch these items in an array?

> 
> If one doesn't, but you think it should, post it here so that someone
> can tell you why it doesn't! :-)


From adm2303.2304 at gmail.com  Sun Apr 12 20:31:56 2015
From: adm2303.2304 at gmail.com (Pippo)
Date: Sun, 12 Apr 2015 17:31:56 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: calling an api in python code
Message-ID: <1276fd71-6e54-45f5-ac50-bc22a0bb5f62@googlegroups.com>

I am new in this matter.. I need some help to understand how do I call an api in python code? 


From cs at zip.com.au  Sun Apr 12 20:46:00 2015
From: cs at zip.com.au (Cameron Simpson)
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 2015 10:46:00 +1000
Subject: Regular Expression
In-Reply-To: <aca71ce4-19a0-4fc5-a3b9-f333b8774043@googlegroups.com>
References: <aca71ce4-19a0-4fc5-a3b9-f333b8774043@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <20150413004600.GA96391@cskk.homeip.net>

On 12Apr2015 17:25, Pippo <adm2303.2304 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> >> > >      constraint = re.compile(r'(#C\[\w*\]'))
>> >> > >      result = constraint.search(content[j],re.MULTILINE)
>> >> > >      text.append(result)
>> >> > >      print(text)
[...]
>> >> result is empty! Although it should have a content.
[...]
>> > I fixed the syntax error but the result shows:
>> > [None]
>> > [None, None]
[...]

Note that "None" is not "empty", though in this case more or less means what 
you think.

You're getting None because the regexp fails to match.

>> Try printing each string you're trying to match using 'repr', i.e.:
>>      print(repr(content[j]))
>>
>> Do any look like they should match?
> print(repr(content[j])) gives me the following:
>
>[None]
>'#D{#C[Health] #P[Information] - \n'
[...]
>shouldn't it match "#C[Health]" in the first row?

It looks like it should, unless you have mangled your regular expression. You 
mentioned earlier that you fixed the syntax error, but you never actually 
recited the line after fixing it. Please cut/paste the _exact_ line where you 
compile the regexp as it is now.  Superficially I would expect your regexp to 
work, but we would like to see it as it current is.

Also note that you can print the regexp's .pattern attribute:

  print(constraint.pattern)

as a check that what was compiled is what you intended to compile.

>If not, what is the best way to fetch these items in an array?

What you've got is ok. I would point out that as you're processing each line on 
its own you should not need "re.MULTILINE" in your .compile() call.

Cheers,
Cameron Simpson <cs at zip.com.au>

The upside of PHP is that it lets non-programmers create complex
applications. The downside of PHP is that it lets non-programmers create
complex applications. - Elliot Lee


From steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info  Sun Apr 12 20:50:38 2015
From: steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 2015 10:50:38 +1000
Subject: calling an api in python code
References: <1276fd71-6e54-45f5-ac50-bc22a0bb5f62@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <552b12df$0$13006$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

On Mon, 13 Apr 2015 10:31 am, Pippo wrote:

> I am new in this matter.. I need some help to understand how do I call an
> api in python code?

Your question is too general. It is like:


"I am new to carpentry and wood-working. How do I use a tool?"

Which tool? Hammer, electric drill, hand saw, electric saw, screwdriver,
crowbar, something else?


The API tells you how to use a library. That's what API means: "Application
Programming Interface".

The API for integers includes:

  - add integers using the + operator: 1 + 2
  - multiply integers using the * operator: 3 * 4

The API for strings include:

  - use either single quotes to create a string: 'hello world'
  - or double quotes: "hello world"
  - call the upper() method with no arguments to return an uppercase 
    version   of the string: 'hello'.upper() -> 'HELLO'
  - call the split() method with no arguments to split the string
    on whitespace: 'hello world'.split() -> ['hello', 'world']
  - call the split() method with a string argument to split the string
    on that string: 'hello world'.split('o') -> ['hell', 'w', 'rld']

and so on and so on and so on. Can you ask a more specific question?


-- 
Steven



From ben+python at benfinney.id.au  Sun Apr 12 20:52:07 2015
From: ben+python at benfinney.id.au (Ben Finney)
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 2015 10:52:07 +1000
Subject: calling an api in python code
References: <1276fd71-6e54-45f5-ac50-bc22a0bb5f62@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <85k2xgx32g.fsf@benfinney.id.au>

Pippo <adm2303.2304 at gmail.com> writes:

> I am new in this matter.. I need some help to understand how do I call
> an api in python code?

You do whatever is documented as the API. That's tautological, so you
probably already know that. But it's not clear what you are asking.

Which API are you looking to use? Where is its documentation? What
specifically are you wanting to know?

-- 
 \           ?The cost of education is trivial compared to the cost of |
  `\                                     ignorance.? ?Thomas Jefferson |
_o__)                                                                  |
Ben Finney



From adm2303.2304 at gmail.com  Sun Apr 12 20:55:54 2015
From: adm2303.2304 at gmail.com (Pippo)
Date: Sun, 12 Apr 2015 17:55:54 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Regular Expression
In-Reply-To: <mailman.255.1428885964.12925.python-list@python.org>
References: <aca71ce4-19a0-4fc5-a3b9-f333b8774043@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.255.1428885964.12925.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <27a25af6-0c52-434a-8205-274ac68f7900@googlegroups.com>

On Sunday, 12 April 2015 20:46:19 UTC-4, Cameron Simpson  wrote:
> >> >> > >      constraint = re.compile(r'(#C\[\w*\]'))
> >> >> > >      result = constraint.search(content[j],re.MULTILINE)
> >> >> > >      text.append(result)
> >> >> > >      print(text)
> [...]
> >> >> result is empty! Although it should have a content.
> [...]
> >> > I fixed the syntax error but the result shows:
> >> > [None]
> >> > [None, None]
> [...]
> 
> Note that "None" is not "empty", though in this case more or less means what 
> you think.
> 
> You're getting None because the regexp fails to match.
> 
> >> Try printing each string you're trying to match using 'repr', i.e.:
> >>      print(repr(content[j]))
> >>
> >> Do any look like they should match?
> > print(repr(content[j])) gives me the following:
> >
> >[None]
> >'#D{#C[Health] #P[Information] - \n'
> [...]
> >shouldn't it match "#C[Health]" in the first row?
> 
> It looks like it should, unless you have mangled your regular expression. You 
> mentioned earlier that you fixed the syntax error, but you never actually 
> recited the line after fixing it. Please cut/paste the _exact_ line where you 
> compile the regexp as it is now.  Superficially I would expect your regexp to 
> work, but we would like to see it as it current is.
> 
> Also note that you can print the regexp's .pattern attribute:
> 
>   print(constraint.pattern)
> 
> as a check that what was compiled is what you intended to compile.
> 
> >If not, what is the best way to fetch these items in an array?
> 
> What you've got is ok. I would point out that as you're processing each line on 
> its own you should not need "re.MULTILINE" in your .compile() call.
> 
> Cheers,
> Cameron Simpson <cs at zip.com.au>
> 
> The upside of PHP is that it lets non-programmers create complex
> applications. The downside of PHP is that it lets non-programmers create
> complex applications. - Elliot Lee

This is the complete code:

import re
import tkinter.filedialog
import readfile



j = 0

text = []


#content = "#C[Health] #P[Information]"

content = readfile.pattread()

while j < len(content):

    constraint = re.compile(r'(#C\[\w*\])')
    result = constraint.search(content[j])
    text.append(result)
    print(constraint.pattern)
    print(text)
    print(repr(content[j])) 
    j = j+1
    
This is the result I get:
(#C\[\w*\])
[<_sre.SRE_Match object at 0x10292ee40>]
'#D{#C[Health] #P[Information] - \n'
(#C\[\w*\])
[<_sre.SRE_Match object at 0x10292ee40>, None]
'means any information, including #ST[genetic information], \n'
(#C\[\w*\])
[<_sre.SRE_Match object at 0x10292ee40>, None, None]
'whether #C[oral | (recorded in (any form | medium))], that \n'
(#C\[\w*\])
[<_sre.SRE_Match object at 0x10292ee40>, None, None, None]
'(1)#C[Is created or received by] a \n'
(#C\[\w*\])
[<_sre.SRE_Match object at 0x10292ee40>, None, None, None, None]
'#A[health care provider | health plan | public health authority | employer | life insurer | school | university | or health care clearinghouse];  \n'
(#C\[\w*\])
[<_sre.SRE_Match object at 0x10292ee40>, None, None, None, None, None]
'(2)#C[Relates to] #C[the past, present, or future physical | mental health | condition of an individual] | \n'
(#C\[\w*\])
[<_sre.SRE_Match object at 0x10292ee40>, None, None, None, None, None, None]
'#C[the provision of health care to an individual] | \n'
(#C\[\w*\])
[<_sre.SRE_Match object at 0x10292ee40>, None, None, None, None, None, None, None]
'#C[the past, present, or future payment for the provision of health care to an individual].}\n'



From adm2303.2304 at gmail.com  Sun Apr 12 20:58:07 2015
From: adm2303.2304 at gmail.com (Pippo)
Date: Sun, 12 Apr 2015 17:58:07 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: calling an api in python code
In-Reply-To: <552b12df$0$13006$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
References: <1276fd71-6e54-45f5-ac50-bc22a0bb5f62@googlegroups.com>
 <552b12df$0$13006$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <f0b259e0-19b3-4dd5-9eb7-429845d40fdf@googlegroups.com>

On Sunday, 12 April 2015 20:50:51 UTC-4, Steven D'Aprano  wrote:
> On Mon, 13 Apr 2015 10:31 am, Pippo wrote:
> 
> > I am new in this matter.. I need some help to understand how do I call an
> > api in python code?
> 
> Your question is too general. It is like:
> 
> 
> "I am new to carpentry and wood-working. How do I use a tool?"
> 
> Which tool? Hammer, electric drill, hand saw, electric saw, screwdriver,
> crowbar, something else?
> 
> 
> The API tells you how to use a library. That's what API means: "Application
> Programming Interface".
> 
> The API for integers includes:
> 
>   - add integers using the + operator: 1 + 2
>   - multiply integers using the * operator: 3 * 4
> 
> The API for strings include:
> 
>   - use either single quotes to create a string: 'hello world'
>   - or double quotes: "hello world"
>   - call the upper() method with no arguments to return an uppercase 
>     version   of the string: 'hello'.upper() -> 'HELLO'
>   - call the split() method with no arguments to split the string
>     on whitespace: 'hello world'.split() -> ['hello', 'world']
>   - call the split() method with a string argument to split the string
>     on that string: 'hello world'.split('o') -> ['hell', 'w', 'rld']
> 
> and so on and so on and so on. Can you ask a more specific question?
> 
> 
> -- 
> Steven

This is what I want to use: https://github.com/mbrubeck/collusion

No proper documentation for it! 

Is there an API for creating network graphs in python? I want to create network for my text files.


From python at mrabarnett.plus.com  Sun Apr 12 21:03:30 2015
From: python at mrabarnett.plus.com (MRAB)
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 2015 02:03:30 +0100
Subject: Regular Expression
In-Reply-To: <aca71ce4-19a0-4fc5-a3b9-f333b8774043@googlegroups.com>
References: <804485a5-6201-4210-b80e-54214c592aa0@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.252.1428881312.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <9fa1ef44-3199-49b7-a45f-b24581b7c75b@googlegroups.com>
 <420e36c2-904a-41db-9fa3-0b0965aa59ec@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.254.1428883508.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <aca71ce4-19a0-4fc5-a3b9-f333b8774043@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <552B15E2.5030500@mrabarnett.plus.com>

On 2015-04-13 01:25, Pippo wrote:
> On Sunday, 12 April 2015 20:06:08 UTC-4, MRAB  wrote:
>> On 2015-04-13 00:47, Pippo wrote:
>> > On Sunday, 12 April 2015 19:44:05 UTC-4, Pippo  wrote:
>> >> On Sunday, 12 April 2015 19:28:44 UTC-4, MRAB  wrote:
>> >> > On 2015-04-12 23:49, Pippo wrote:
>> >> > > I have a text as follows:
>> >> > >
>> >> > > "#D{#C[Health] #P[Information] -
>> >> > > means any information, including #ST[genetic information],
>> >> > > whether #C[oral | (recorded in (any form | medium))], that
>> >> > > (1)#C[Is created or received by] a
>> >> > > #A[health care provider | health plan | public health authority | employer | life insurer | school | university | or health care clearinghouse];
>> >> > > (2)#C[Relates to] #C[the past, present, or future physical | mental health | condition of an individual] |
>> >> > > #C[the provision of health care to an individual] |
>> >> > > #C[the past, present, or future payment for the provision of health care to an individual].}"
>> >> > >
>> >> > > I want to get all elements that start with #C and are []  and put it in an array. For example #C[Health], I try with regex but it doesn't work:
>> >> > >
>> >> > "... it doesn't work"? In what way doesn't it work?
>> >> >
>> >> > > import re
>> >> > > import tkinter.filedialog
>> >> > > import readfile
>> >> > >
>> >> > >
>> >> > >
>> >> > > j = 0
>> >> > >
>> >> > > text = [ ]
>> >> > >
>> >> > >
>> >> > > content = readfile.pattread()
>> >> > >
>> >> > > while j < len(content):
>> >> > >
>> >> > There's a syntax error here:
>> >> >
>> >> > >      constraint = re.compile(r'(#C\[\w*\]'))
>> >> > >      result = constraint.search(content[j],re.MULTILINE)
>> >> > >      text.append(result)
>> >> > >      print(text)
>> >> > >      j = j+1
>> >> > >
>> >>
>> >> result is empty! Although it should have a content.
>> >>
>> >> What is the syntax error?
>> >
>> > I fixed the syntax error but the result shows:
>> >
>> >>>>
>> > [None]
>> > [None, None]
>> > [None, None, None]
>> > [None, None, None, None]
>> > [None, None, None, None, None]
>> > [None, None, None, None, None, None]
>> > [None, None, None, None, None, None, None]
>> > [None, None, None, None, None, None, None, None]
>> >>>>
>> >
>> >
>> > No error but if I don't call the content I posted up and call this as a content: #content = "#C[Health] #P[Information]"
>> >
>> > result gives me #C[Health]
>> >
>> What does 'readfile.pattread()' return? Does it return a list of
>> strings? I'm guessing it does.
>
> yes it reads a file of string similar to the one I posted above
>
>>
>> Try printing each string you're trying to match using 'repr', i.e.:
>>
>>      print(repr(content[j]))
>>
>> Do any look like they should match?
>
>   print(repr(content[j])) gives me the following:
>
> [None]
> '#D{#C[Health] #P[Information] - \n'
> [None, None]
> 'means any information, including #ST[genetic information], \n'
> [None, None, None]
> 'whether #C[oral | (recorded in (any form | medium))], that \n'
> [None, None, None, None]
> '(1)#C[Is created or received by] a \n'
> [None, None, None, None, None]
> '#A[health care provider | health plan | public health authority | employer | life insurer | school | university | or health care clearinghouse];  \n'
> [None, None, None, None, None, None]
> '(2)#C[Relates to] #C[the past, present, or future physical | mental health | condition of an individual] | \n'
> [None, None, None, None, None, None, None]
> '#C[the provision of health care to an individual] | \n'
> [None, None, None, None, None, None, None, None]
> '#C[the past, present, or future payment for the provision of health care to an individual].}\n'
>
> shouldn't it match "#C[Health]" in the first row? If not, what is the best way to fetch these items in an array?
>
>>
>> If one doesn't, but you think it should, post it here so that someone
>> can tell you why it doesn't! :-)
>
It took me a while to spot the problem...

You're passing re.MULTILINE as the second argument of
'constraint.search', but look at the help text:

 >>> help(constraint.search)
Help on built-in function search:

search(...) method of _sre.SRE_Pattern instance
     search(string[, pos[, endpos]]) -> match object or None.
     Scan through string looking for a match, and return a corresponding
     match object instance. Return None if no position in the string 
matches.

The second argument is the starting position for the search, _not_
flags.

That flag should've been passed as the second argument of re.compile
(not that it's needed by that pattern, anyway).

Actually, there's no point compiling the same regex every time; you
might as well compiling it one, outside (just before) the loop.



From python at mrabarnett.plus.com  Sun Apr 12 21:06:13 2015
From: python at mrabarnett.plus.com (MRAB)
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 2015 02:06:13 +0100
Subject: Regular Expression
In-Reply-To: <27a25af6-0c52-434a-8205-274ac68f7900@googlegroups.com>
References: <aca71ce4-19a0-4fc5-a3b9-f333b8774043@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.255.1428885964.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <27a25af6-0c52-434a-8205-274ac68f7900@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <552B1685.3010303@mrabarnett.plus.com>

On 2015-04-13 01:55, Pippo wrote:
> On Sunday, 12 April 2015 20:46:19 UTC-4, Cameron Simpson  wrote:
>> >> >> > >      constraint = re.compile(r'(#C\[\w*\]'))
>> >> >> > >      result = constraint.search(content[j],re.MULTILINE)
>> >> >> > >      text.append(result)
>> >> >> > >      print(text)
>> [...]
>> >> >> result is empty! Although it should have a content.
>> [...]
>> >> > I fixed the syntax error but the result shows:
>> >> > [None]
>> >> > [None, None]
>> [...]
>>
>> Note that "None" is not "empty", though in this case more or less means what
>> you think.
>>
>> You're getting None because the regexp fails to match.
>>
>> >> Try printing each string you're trying to match using 'repr', i.e.:
>> >>      print(repr(content[j]))
>> >>
>> >> Do any look like they should match?
>> > print(repr(content[j])) gives me the following:
>> >
>> >[None]
>> >'#D{#C[Health] #P[Information] - \n'
>> [...]
>> >shouldn't it match "#C[Health]" in the first row?
>>
>> It looks like it should, unless you have mangled your regular expression. You
>> mentioned earlier that you fixed the syntax error, but you never actually
>> recited the line after fixing it. Please cut/paste the _exact_ line where you
>> compile the regexp as it is now.  Superficially I would expect your regexp to
>> work, but we would like to see it as it current is.
>>
>> Also note that you can print the regexp's .pattern attribute:
>>
>>   print(constraint.pattern)
>>
>> as a check that what was compiled is what you intended to compile.
>>
>> >If not, what is the best way to fetch these items in an array?
>>
>> What you've got is ok. I would point out that as you're processing each line on
>> its own you should not need "re.MULTILINE" in your .compile() call.
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Cameron Simpson <cs at zip.com.au>
>>
>> The upside of PHP is that it lets non-programmers create complex
>> applications. The downside of PHP is that it lets non-programmers create
>> complex applications. - Elliot Lee
>
> This is the complete code:
>
> import re
> import tkinter.filedialog
> import readfile
>
>
>
> j = 0
>
> text = []
>
>
> #content = "#C[Health] #P[Information]"
>
> content = readfile.pattread()
>
> while j < len(content):
>
>      constraint = re.compile(r'(#C\[\w*\])')
>      result = constraint.search(content[j])
>      text.append(result)
>      print(constraint.pattern)
>      print(text)
>      print(repr(content[j]))
>      j = j+1
>
> This is the result I get:
> (#C\[\w*\])
> [<_sre.SRE_Match object at 0x10292ee40>]
> '#D{#C[Health] #P[Information] - \n'
> (#C\[\w*\])
> [<_sre.SRE_Match object at 0x10292ee40>, None]
> 'means any information, including #ST[genetic information], \n'
> (#C\[\w*\])
> [<_sre.SRE_Match object at 0x10292ee40>, None, None]
> 'whether #C[oral | (recorded in (any form | medium))], that \n'
> (#C\[\w*\])
> [<_sre.SRE_Match object at 0x10292ee40>, None, None, None]
> '(1)#C[Is created or received by] a \n'
> (#C\[\w*\])
> [<_sre.SRE_Match object at 0x10292ee40>, None, None, None, None]
> '#A[health care provider | health plan | public health authority | employer | life insurer | school | university | or health care clearinghouse];  \n'
> (#C\[\w*\])
> [<_sre.SRE_Match object at 0x10292ee40>, None, None, None, None, None]
> '(2)#C[Relates to] #C[the past, present, or future physical | mental health | condition of an individual] | \n'
> (#C\[\w*\])
> [<_sre.SRE_Match object at 0x10292ee40>, None, None, None, None, None, None]
> '#C[the provision of health care to an individual] | \n'
> (#C\[\w*\])
> [<_sre.SRE_Match object at 0x10292ee40>, None, None, None, None, None, None, None]
> '#C[the past, present, or future payment for the provision of health care to an individual].}\n'
>
The search returns a match object. If you want the text that it found,
use the match object's .group method.



From adm2303.2304 at gmail.com  Sun Apr 12 21:15:55 2015
From: adm2303.2304 at gmail.com (Pippo)
Date: Sun, 12 Apr 2015 18:15:55 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Regular Expression
In-Reply-To: <mailman.258.1428887176.12925.python-list@python.org>
References: <aca71ce4-19a0-4fc5-a3b9-f333b8774043@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.255.1428885964.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <27a25af6-0c52-434a-8205-274ac68f7900@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.258.1428887176.12925.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <60322c66-ea1d-489d-bf51-dbae328241fa@googlegroups.com>

On Sunday, 12 April 2015 21:07:09 UTC-4, MRAB  wrote:
> On 2015-04-13 01:55, Pippo wrote:
> > On Sunday, 12 April 2015 20:46:19 UTC-4, Cameron Simpson  wrote:
> >> >> >> > >      constraint = re.compile(r'(#C\[\w*\]'))
> >> >> >> > >      result = constraint.search(content[j],re.MULTILINE)
> >> >> >> > >      text.append(result)
> >> >> >> > >      print(text)
> >> [...]
> >> >> >> result is empty! Although it should have a content.
> >> [...]
> >> >> > I fixed the syntax error but the result shows:
> >> >> > [None]
> >> >> > [None, None]
> >> [...]
> >>
> >> Note that "None" is not "empty", though in this case more or less means what
> >> you think.
> >>
> >> You're getting None because the regexp fails to match.
> >>
> >> >> Try printing each string you're trying to match using 'repr', i.e.:
> >> >>      print(repr(content[j]))
> >> >>
> >> >> Do any look like they should match?
> >> > print(repr(content[j])) gives me the following:
> >> >
> >> >[None]
> >> >'#D{#C[Health] #P[Information] - \n'
> >> [...]
> >> >shouldn't it match "#C[Health]" in the first row?
> >>
> >> It looks like it should, unless you have mangled your regular expression. You
> >> mentioned earlier that you fixed the syntax error, but you never actually
> >> recited the line after fixing it. Please cut/paste the _exact_ line where you
> >> compile the regexp as it is now.  Superficially I would expect your regexp to
> >> work, but we would like to see it as it current is.
> >>
> >> Also note that you can print the regexp's .pattern attribute:
> >>
> >>   print(constraint.pattern)
> >>
> >> as a check that what was compiled is what you intended to compile.
> >>
> >> >If not, what is the best way to fetch these items in an array?
> >>
> >> What you've got is ok. I would point out that as you're processing each line on
> >> its own you should not need "re.MULTILINE" in your .compile() call.
> >>
> >> Cheers,
> >> Cameron Simpson <cs at zip.com.au>
> >>
> >> The upside of PHP is that it lets non-programmers create complex
> >> applications. The downside of PHP is that it lets non-programmers create
> >> complex applications. - Elliot Lee
> >
> > This is the complete code:
> >
> > import re
> > import tkinter.filedialog
> > import readfile
> >
> >
> >
> > j = 0
> >
> > text = []
> >
> >
> > #content = "#C[Health] #P[Information]"
> >
> > content = readfile.pattread()
> >
> > while j < len(content):
> >
> >      constraint = re.compile(r'(#C\[\w*\])')
> >      result = constraint.search(content[j])
> >      text.append(result)
> >      print(constraint.pattern)
> >      print(text)
> >      print(repr(content[j]))
> >      j = j+1
> >
> > This is the result I get:
> > (#C\[\w*\])
> > [<_sre.SRE_Match object at 0x10292ee40>]
> > '#D{#C[Health] #P[Information] - \n'
> > (#C\[\w*\])
> > [<_sre.SRE_Match object at 0x10292ee40>, None]
> > 'means any information, including #ST[genetic information], \n'
> > (#C\[\w*\])
> > [<_sre.SRE_Match object at 0x10292ee40>, None, None]
> > 'whether #C[oral | (recorded in (any form | medium))], that \n'
> > (#C\[\w*\])
> > [<_sre.SRE_Match object at 0x10292ee40>, None, None, None]
> > '(1)#C[Is created or received by] a \n'
> > (#C\[\w*\])
> > [<_sre.SRE_Match object at 0x10292ee40>, None, None, None, None]
> > '#A[health care provider | health plan | public health authority | employer | life insurer | school | university | or health care clearinghouse];  \n'
> > (#C\[\w*\])
> > [<_sre.SRE_Match object at 0x10292ee40>, None, None, None, None, None]
> > '(2)#C[Relates to] #C[the past, present, or future physical | mental health | condition of an individual] | \n'
> > (#C\[\w*\])
> > [<_sre.SRE_Match object at 0x10292ee40>, None, None, None, None, None, None]
> > '#C[the provision of health care to an individual] | \n'
> > (#C\[\w*\])
> > [<_sre.SRE_Match object at 0x10292ee40>, None, None, None, None, None, None, None]
> > '#C[the past, present, or future payment for the provision of health care to an individual].}\n'
> >
> The search returns a match object. If you want the text that it found,
> use the match object's .group method.

If I add the print it gives me error:

import re
import tkinter.filedialog
import readfile



j = 0

text = []


content = readfile.pattread()

constraint = re.compile(r'(#C\[\w*\])')

while j < len(content):

    result = constraint.search(content[j])
    text.append(result)
    print(constraint.pattern)
    print(result.group(0))
    print(text)
    print(repr(content[j])) 
    j = j+1

(#C\[\w*\])
#C[Health]
[<_sre.SRE_Match object at 0x10215de40>]
'#D{#C[Health] #P[Information] - \n'
(#C\[\w*\])
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "/Users/sepidehghanavati/Desktop/Programs/python/Python3.3/Main Modules/testpattern.py", line 23, in <module>
    print(result.group(0))
AttributeError: 'NoneType' object has no attribute 'group'




From cs at zip.com.au  Sun Apr 12 21:21:30 2015
From: cs at zip.com.au (Cameron Simpson)
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 2015 11:21:30 +1000
Subject: Regular Expression
In-Reply-To: <27a25af6-0c52-434a-8205-274ac68f7900@googlegroups.com>
References: <27a25af6-0c52-434a-8205-274ac68f7900@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <20150413012130.GA97771@cskk.homeip.net>

On 12Apr2015 17:55, Pippo <adm2303.2304 at gmail.com> wrote:
>On Sunday, 12 April 2015 20:46:19 UTC-4, Cameron Simpson  wrote:
>> It looks like it should, unless you have mangled your regular expression.  
[...]
>> Also note that you can print the regexp's .pattern attribute:
>>   print(constraint.pattern)
>> as a check that what was compiled is what you intended to compile.
[...]
>This is the complete code:
[...]

Thank you.

>while j < len(content):
>    constraint = re.compile(r'(#C\[\w*\])')
>    result = constraint.search(content[j])

I notice you seem to have incorporated MRAB's suggestion that the re.MULTILINE 
is a parameter for re.compile, not re.search, and also my suggestion that you 
don't need it at all.

>    text.append(result)
>    print(constraint.pattern)
>    print(text)
>    print(repr(content[j]))
>    j = j+1
>
>This is the result I get:
>(#C\[\w*\])
>[<_sre.SRE_Match object at 0x10292ee40>]
>'#D{#C[Health] #P[Information] - \n'
>(#C\[\w*\])
>[<_sre.SRE_Match object at 0x10292ee40>, None]

I think you've missed the first line, but the above output looks correct to me 
at this point.

You may want to modify your code to say something like this:

    if result is not None:
        text.append(result)

so that you only accrue matches in your text list.

Then there are assorted things that can be done to improve the code in general, 
but could you see if you actual bugs are now fixed?

Cheers,
Cameron Simpson <cs at zip.com.au>

A program in conformance will not tend to stay in conformance, because even if
it doesn't change, the standard will.   - Norman Diamond <diamond at jit.dec.com>


From rdavis7408 at gmail.com  Sun Apr 12 21:22:14 2015
From: rdavis7408 at gmail.com (rdavis7408 at gmail.com)
Date: Sun, 12 Apr 2015 18:22:14 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Python newbie here! No module named settings
In-Reply-To: <1ce00c77-35ae-4499-adff-bafadab80aa5@x38g2000pri.googlegroups.com>
References: <1ce00c77-35ae-4499-adff-bafadab80aa5@x38g2000pri.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <82f7dec4-5c4a-4a22-9054-238a32965225@googlegroups.com>

On Thursday, June 2, 2011 at 10:29:48 AM UTC-5, Neeraj Agarwal wrote:
> Hello all,
> 
> I'm a newbie to Python and its my 2nd day exploring it.
> 
> I was trying to use Python wrapper for Google Charts API and was
> tweaking the examples.
> https://github.com/gak/pygooglechart/raw/master/examples/pie.py
> 
> This is the script which I was trying.
> 
> And the python interpreter gives the following error:
>     import settings
> ImportError: No module named settings
> 
> I installed Django as well before this (if its causing the problem,
> dunno)
> 
> Please help me.
> 
> Thanks,
> Neeraj

Thanks, your answer was a big help.


From adm2303.2304 at gmail.com  Sun Apr 12 21:28:34 2015
From: adm2303.2304 at gmail.com (Pippo)
Date: Sun, 12 Apr 2015 18:28:34 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Regular Expression
In-Reply-To: <mailman.259.1428888094.12925.python-list@python.org>
References: <27a25af6-0c52-434a-8205-274ac68f7900@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.259.1428888094.12925.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <47ab5f3a-5c20-4586-a6d4-c6250dcd4ac4@googlegroups.com>

On Sunday, 12 April 2015 21:21:48 UTC-4, Cameron Simpson  wrote:
> On 12Apr2015 17:55, Pippo <adm2303.2304 at gmail.com> wrote:
> >On Sunday, 12 April 2015 20:46:19 UTC-4, Cameron Simpson  wrote:
> >> It looks like it should, unless you have mangled your regular expression.  
> [...]
> >> Also note that you can print the regexp's .pattern attribute:
> >>   print(constraint.pattern)
> >> as a check that what was compiled is what you intended to compile.
> [...]
> >This is the complete code:
> [...]
> 
> Thank you.
> 
> >while j < len(content):
> >    constraint = re.compile(r'(#C\[\w*\])')
> >    result = constraint.search(content[j])
> 
> I notice you seem to have incorporated MRAB's suggestion that the re.MULTILINE 
> is a parameter for re.compile, not re.search, and also my suggestion that you 
> don't need it at all.
> 
> >    text.append(result)
> >    print(constraint.pattern)
> >    print(text)
> >    print(repr(content[j]))
> >    j = j+1
> >
> >This is the result I get:
> >(#C\[\w*\])
> >[<_sre.SRE_Match object at 0x10292ee40>]
> >'#D{#C[Health] #P[Information] - \n'
> >(#C\[\w*\])
> >[<_sre.SRE_Match object at 0x10292ee40>, None]
> 
> I think you've missed the first line, but the above output looks correct to me 
> at this point.
> 
> You may want to modify your code to say something like this:
> 
>     if result is not None:
>         text.append(result)
> 
> so that you only accrue matches in your text list.
> 
> Then there are assorted things that can be done to improve the code in general, 
> but could you see if you actual bugs are now fixed?
> 
> Cheers,
> Cameron Simpson <cs at zip.com.au>
> 
> A program in conformance will not tend to stay in conformance, because even if
> it doesn't change, the standard will.   - Norman Diamond <diamond at jit.dec.com>

Thanks Cameron, I added the if statement but I still get this error:

Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "/Users/sepidehghanavati/Desktop/Programs/python/Python3.3/Main Modules/testpattern.py", line 24, in <module>
    print(result.group(0))
AttributeError: 'NoneType' object has no attribute 'group'



From ben+python at benfinney.id.au  Sun Apr 12 21:33:47 2015
From: ben+python at benfinney.id.au (Ben Finney)
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 2015 11:33:47 +1000
Subject: calling an api in python code
References: <1276fd71-6e54-45f5-ac50-bc22a0bb5f62@googlegroups.com>
 <552b12df$0$13006$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <f0b259e0-19b3-4dd5-9eb7-429845d40fdf@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <85fv84x150.fsf@benfinney.id.au>

Pippo <adm2303.2304 at gmail.com> writes:

> On Sunday, 12 April 2015 20:50:51 UTC-4, Steven D'Aprano  wrote:
> > The API tells you how to use a library. That's what API means: "Application
> > Programming Interface".[?]
> > Can you ask a more specific question?
>
> This is what I want to use: https://github.com/mbrubeck/collusion
> No proper documentation for it! 

That's a shame. Have you filed a bug report at the project, asking for
comprehensive API documentation?

Also: Thank you for replying chronologically (response immediately
follows what you're responding to). Please make your posts easier to
read by removing quoted material that you *aren't* responding to; this
goes by the term ?trim quoted material?.

This message is an example of what I'm advocating: responses are
interleaved like a conversation, the only quoted material shows what I'm
responding to, and attribution lines say who wrote each level.

See also <URL:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posting_style#Interleaved_style>.

> Is there an API for creating network graphs in python? I want to
> create network for my text files.

The Python Package Index <URL:https://pypi.python.org/> has a search
feature; searching for ?network graph? gives many results
<URL:https://pypi.python.org/pypi?%3Aaction=search&term=network+graph&submit=search>.
I'm not familiar with such tasks though, so can't advise as to which
libraries might be better.

-- 
 \       ?You can never entirely stop being what you once were. That's |
  `\   why it's important to be the right person today, and not put it |
_o__)                                 off until tomorrow.? ?Larry Wall |
Ben Finney



From no.email at nospam.invalid  Sun Apr 12 21:56:27 2015
From: no.email at nospam.invalid (Paul Rubin)
Date: Sun, 12 Apr 2015 18:56:27 -0700
Subject: find all multiplicands and multipliers for a number
References: <890bd388-f50a-4dec-9ef5-27715427472a@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.209.1428714381.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <55288135$0$12997$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <87egnrb3il.fsf@jester.gateway.sonic.net>
 <87619387c0.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <90a8e07c-adb3-499f-8971-4ea49f6aea4b@googlegroups.com>
 <87lhhx7r44.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
Message-ID: <87zj6czt84.fsf@jester.gateway.sonic.net>

Marko Rauhamaa <marko at pacujo.net> writes:
> And in fact, the sqrt optimization now makes the original version 20%
> faster: ...
>     bound = int(math.sqrt(n))

That could conceivably fail because of floating point roundoff or
overflow, e.g. fac(3**1000).  A fancier approach to finding the integer
square root might be worthwhile though.


From cs at zip.com.au  Sun Apr 12 22:09:53 2015
From: cs at zip.com.au (Cameron Simpson)
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 2015 12:09:53 +1000
Subject: Regular Expression
In-Reply-To: <47ab5f3a-5c20-4586-a6d4-c6250dcd4ac4@googlegroups.com>
References: <47ab5f3a-5c20-4586-a6d4-c6250dcd4ac4@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <20150413020953.GA9013@cskk.homeip.net>

On 12Apr2015 18:28, Pippo <adm2303.2304 at gmail.com> wrote:
>On Sunday, 12 April 2015 21:21:48 UTC-4, Cameron Simpson  wrote:
[...]

Pippo, please take a moment to trim the less relevant verbiage from the quoted 
material; it makes replies easier to read because what is left can be taken to 
be more "on point". Thanks.

Discussion below.

>> >This is the result I get:
>> >(#C\[\w*\])
>> >[<_sre.SRE_Match object at 0x10292ee40>]
>> >'#D{#C[Health] #P[Information] - \n'
>> >(#C\[\w*\])
>> >[<_sre.SRE_Match object at 0x10292ee40>, None]
>>
>> I think you've missed the first line, but the above output looks correct to me
>> at this point.
>>
>> You may want to modify your code to say something like this:
>>     if result is not None:
>>         text.append(result)
>> so that you only accrue matches in your text list.
>
>Thanks Cameron, I added the if statement but I still get this error:
>
>Traceback (most recent call last):
>  File "/Users/sepidehghanavati/Desktop/Programs/python/Python3.3/Main Modules/testpattern.py", line 24, in <module>
>    print(result.group(0))
>AttributeError: 'NoneType' object has no attribute 'group'

Certainly, that is to be expected; you're printing that unconditionally, even 
when "result" is None.

Put the print inside the "if"; you don't really care when result is None, and 
anyway you can't access .group when it is None - it is not an 're.match" 
object, because there was no match.

Once you're happy you should consider what happens when there is more than one 
"C#[blah]" in a line (if that happens; you know the data better than we).

Cheers,
Cameron Simpson <cs at zip.com.au>

This is my simple religion. There is no need for temples; no need for
complicated philosophy. Our own brain, our own heart is our temple; the
philosophy is kindness.	- Dalai Lama


From adm2303.2304 at gmail.com  Sun Apr 12 22:28:18 2015
From: adm2303.2304 at gmail.com (Pippo)
Date: Sun, 12 Apr 2015 19:28:18 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Regular Expression
In-Reply-To: <mailman.261.1428890998.12925.python-list@python.org>
References: <47ab5f3a-5c20-4586-a6d4-c6250dcd4ac4@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.261.1428890998.12925.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <cdc569d2-4ebe-4d9d-8f05-0e88f616a9b4@googlegroups.com>


> Put the print inside the "if"; you don't really care when result is None, and 
> anyway you can't access .group when it is None - it is not an 're.match" 
> object, because there was no match.

Thanks Cameron, this worked. 

> 
> Once you're happy you should consider what happens when there is more than one 
> "C#[blah]" in a line (if that happens; you know the data better than we).
 

Now I have this input data:

#D{#C[Health] #P[Information] - 
means any information, including #ST[genetic information], 
whether #C[oral | (recorded in (any form | medium))], that 
(1)#C[Is created or received by] a 
#A[health care provider | health plan | public health authority | employer | life insurer | school | university | or health care clearinghouse];  
(2)#C[Relates to] #C[the past, present, or future physical | mental health | condition of an individual] | 
#C[the provision of health care to an individual] | 
#C[the past, present, or future payment for the provision of health care to an individual].}

The result of my code is this:
#C[Health]
[<_sre.SRE_Match object at 0x10212ee40>]
[<_sre.SRE_Match object at 0x10212ee40>]
[<_sre.SRE_Match object at 0x10212ee40>]
[<_sre.SRE_Match object at 0x10212ee40>]
[<_sre.SRE_Match object at 0x10212ee40>]
[<_sre.SRE_Match object at 0x10212ee40>]
[<_sre.SRE_Match object at 0x10212ee40>]
[<_sre.SRE_Match object at 0x10212ee40>]

The code itself:
import re
import tkinter.filedialog
import readfile

j = 0
text = []

content = readfile.pattread()

constraint = re.compile(r'(#C\[\w*\])')

while j < len(content):

    result = constraint.search(content[j])
    if result is not None: 
        text.append(result)
        print(result.group(0))
    print(text)
    j = j+1

I know that "[<_sre.SRE_Match object at 0x10212ee40>]" is the result of print(text). Does this mean that we ONLY found one match object?

What about if I want the code finds also this one? #C[Is created or received by]?
or this one?
#C[the past, present, or future physical | mental health | condition of an individual]

Is it because of the space and other characters that it doesn't match them?


From adm2303.2304 at gmail.com  Sun Apr 12 22:29:52 2015
From: adm2303.2304 at gmail.com (Pippo)
Date: Sun, 12 Apr 2015 19:29:52 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Anyone used snap.py for drawing a graph?
Message-ID: <6df02ce8-7e2f-45df-b2df-ab7001a9f9be@googlegroups.com>

Hi,

Any guide on this?

http://snap.stanford.edu/snappy/#download



From davea at davea.name  Sun Apr 12 22:35:56 2015
From: davea at davea.name (Dave Angel)
Date: Sun, 12 Apr 2015 22:35:56 -0400
Subject: find all multiplicands and multipliers for a number
In-Reply-To: <87zj6czt84.fsf@jester.gateway.sonic.net>
References: <890bd388-f50a-4dec-9ef5-27715427472a@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.209.1428714381.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <55288135$0$12997$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <87egnrb3il.fsf@jester.gateway.sonic.net> <87619387c0.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <90a8e07c-adb3-499f-8971-4ea49f6aea4b@googlegroups.com>
 <87lhhx7r44.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net> <87zj6czt84.fsf@jester.gateway.sonic.net>
Message-ID: <552B2B8C.9020800@davea.name>

On 04/12/2015 09:56 PM, Paul Rubin wrote:
> Marko Rauhamaa <marko at pacujo.net> writes:
>> And in fact, the sqrt optimization now makes the original version 20%
>> faster: ...
>>      bound = int(math.sqrt(n))
>
> That could conceivably fail because of floating point roundoff or
> overflow, e.g. fac(3**1000).  A fancier approach to finding the integer
> square root might be worthwhile though.
>

If I were trying to get a bound for stopping the divide operation, on a 
value too large to do exact real representation, I'd try doing just a 
few iterations of Newton's method.  Even if you don't converge it to get 
an exact value, you can arrange that you have a number that's for sure 
no less than the square root.  And you can get pretty close in just a 
few times around.

-- 
DaveA


From adm2303.2304 at gmail.com  Sun Apr 12 23:04:53 2015
From: adm2303.2304 at gmail.com (Pippo)
Date: Sun, 12 Apr 2015 20:04:53 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Regular Expression
In-Reply-To: <cdc569d2-4ebe-4d9d-8f05-0e88f616a9b4@googlegroups.com>
References: <47ab5f3a-5c20-4586-a6d4-c6250dcd4ac4@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.261.1428890998.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <cdc569d2-4ebe-4d9d-8f05-0e88f616a9b4@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <6da38d2e-269f-449c-bd38-2ebb9c81e57d@googlegroups.com>

Sweet! Thanks all of you! I matched everything except these ones... trying to find the best way


> whether #C[oral | (recorded in (any form | medium))], that 


 #C[the past, present, or future physical | mental health | condition of an individual] | 
> #C[the past, present, or future payment for the provision of health care to an individual].}





From adm2303.2304 at gmail.com  Sun Apr 12 23:13:27 2015
From: adm2303.2304 at gmail.com (Pippo)
Date: Sun, 12 Apr 2015 20:13:27 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Regular Expression
In-Reply-To: <6da38d2e-269f-449c-bd38-2ebb9c81e57d@googlegroups.com>
References: <47ab5f3a-5c20-4586-a6d4-c6250dcd4ac4@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.261.1428890998.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <cdc569d2-4ebe-4d9d-8f05-0e88f616a9b4@googlegroups.com>
 <6da38d2e-269f-449c-bd38-2ebb9c81e57d@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <b2e0103b-ccef-4e1f-88e8-56b7691b01a7@googlegroups.com>

I fixed all! 

Thanks. This is the result:

#C[Health]
#P[Information]
#ST[genetic information]
#C[oral | (recorded in (any form | medium))]
#C[Is created or received by]
#A[health care provider | health plan | public health authority | employer | life insurer | school | university | or health care clearinghouse]
#C[Relates to]
#C[the past, present, or future physical | mental health | condition of an individual]
#C[the provision of health care to an individual]
#C[the past, present, or future payment for the provision of health care to an individual]

Now I want to save them in array and then create a graph for them... anyone has any suggestion?

For example if the node starts with #P then this is the central node with the name P. All other nodes have to connect to this one or have a node that is connected to this one....

Also, how can I capture "or" in my node graphs?


From no.email at nospam.invalid  Sun Apr 12 23:30:04 2015
From: no.email at nospam.invalid (Paul Rubin)
Date: Sun, 12 Apr 2015 20:30:04 -0700
Subject: find all multiplicands and multipliers for a number
References: <890bd388-f50a-4dec-9ef5-27715427472a@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.209.1428714381.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <55288135$0$12997$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <87egnrb3il.fsf@jester.gateway.sonic.net>
 <87619387c0.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <90a8e07c-adb3-499f-8971-4ea49f6aea4b@googlegroups.com>
 <87lhhx7r44.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <87zj6czt84.fsf@jester.gateway.sonic.net>
 <mailman.262.1428892580.12925.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <87vbh0zow3.fsf@jester.gateway.sonic.net>

Dave Angel <davea at davea.name> writes:
> If I were trying to get a bound for stopping the divide operation, on
> a value too large to do exact real representation, I'd try doing just
> a few iterations of Newton's method.

Python ninja trick: math.log works on bignums too large to be
represented as floats ;-)


From davea at davea.name  Mon Apr 13 00:35:02 2015
From: davea at davea.name (Dave Angel)
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 2015 00:35:02 -0400
Subject: find all multiplicands and multipliers for a number
In-Reply-To: <87vbh0zow3.fsf@jester.gateway.sonic.net>
References: <890bd388-f50a-4dec-9ef5-27715427472a@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.209.1428714381.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <55288135$0$12997$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <87egnrb3il.fsf@jester.gateway.sonic.net> <87619387c0.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <90a8e07c-adb3-499f-8971-4ea49f6aea4b@googlegroups.com>
 <87lhhx7r44.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net> <87zj6czt84.fsf@jester.gateway.sonic.net>
 <mailman.262.1428892580.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <87vbh0zow3.fsf@jester.gateway.sonic.net>
Message-ID: <552B4776.1040904@davea.name>

On 04/12/2015 11:30 PM, Paul Rubin wrote:
> Dave Angel <davea at davea.name> writes:
>> If I were trying to get a bound for stopping the divide operation, on
>> a value too large to do exact real representation, I'd try doing just
>> a few iterations of Newton's method.
>
> Python ninja trick: math.log works on bignums too large to be
> represented as floats ;-)
>

But doesn't math.pow return a float?   Af first crack I figured it was 
because I had supplied math.e as the first argument.  But I have the 
same problem with  (python 3.4)


x = 2596148429267413814265248164610047
print( math.pow(2, math.log2(x)) )
2.596148429267414e+33

Or were you saying bignums bigger than a float can represent at all?  Like:

 >>> x = 2**11111 -1
 >>> len(str(x))
3345
 >>> math.log2(x)
11111.0
 >>> math.pow(2, math.log2(x)//2)
Traceback (most recent call last):
   File "<stdin>", line 1, in <module>
OverflowError: math range error


-- 
DaveA


From no.email at nospam.invalid  Mon Apr 13 01:25:30 2015
From: no.email at nospam.invalid (Paul Rubin)
Date: Sun, 12 Apr 2015 22:25:30 -0700
Subject: find all multiplicands and multipliers for a number
References: <890bd388-f50a-4dec-9ef5-27715427472a@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.209.1428714381.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <55288135$0$12997$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <87egnrb3il.fsf@jester.gateway.sonic.net>
 <87619387c0.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <90a8e07c-adb3-499f-8971-4ea49f6aea4b@googlegroups.com>
 <87lhhx7r44.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <87zj6czt84.fsf@jester.gateway.sonic.net>
 <mailman.262.1428892580.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <87vbh0zow3.fsf@jester.gateway.sonic.net>
 <mailman.263.1428899720.12925.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <87r3rozjjp.fsf@jester.gateway.sonic.net>

Dave Angel <davea at davea.name> writes:
> But doesn't math.pow return a float?...
> Or were you saying bignums bigger than a float can represent at all?  Like:
>>>> x = 2**11111 -1  ...
>>>> math.log2(x)
> 11111.0

Yes, exactly that.  Thus (not completely tested):
    
    def isqrt(x):
        def log2(x): return math.log(x,2)  # python 2 compatibility
        if x < 1e9: 
           return int(math.ceil(math.sqrt(x)))
	a,b = divmod(log2(x), 1.0)
	c = int(a/2) - 10
	d = (b/2 + a/2 - c + 0.001)
	# now c+d = log2(x)+0.001, c is an integer, and
        # d is a float between 10 and 11
	s = 2**c * int(math.ceil(2**d))
	return s

should return slightly above the integer square root of x.  This is just
off the top of my head and maybe it can be tweaked a bit.  Or maybe it's
stupid and there's an obvious better way to do it that I'm missing.


From mahima.goyal92 at gmail.com  Mon Apr 13 01:38:12 2015
From: mahima.goyal92 at gmail.com (Mahima Goyal)
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 2015 11:08:12 +0530
Subject: installing error in python
Message-ID: <CAEp4JT3KjVkTY3ojoSDz9XG4DU09GcO8FuBQ0TXo=Jxnkj04qw@mail.gmail.com>

error of corrupted file or directory is coming if i am installing
python for 64 bit.


From davea at davea.name  Mon Apr 13 01:43:07 2015
From: davea at davea.name (Dave Angel)
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 2015 01:43:07 -0400
Subject: find all multiplicands and multipliers for a number
In-Reply-To: <87r3rozjjp.fsf@jester.gateway.sonic.net>
References: <890bd388-f50a-4dec-9ef5-27715427472a@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.209.1428714381.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <55288135$0$12997$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <87egnrb3il.fsf@jester.gateway.sonic.net> <87619387c0.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <90a8e07c-adb3-499f-8971-4ea49f6aea4b@googlegroups.com>
 <87lhhx7r44.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net> <87zj6czt84.fsf@jester.gateway.sonic.net>
 <mailman.262.1428892580.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <87vbh0zow3.fsf@jester.gateway.sonic.net>
 <mailman.263.1428899720.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <87r3rozjjp.fsf@jester.gateway.sonic.net>
Message-ID: <552B576B.7020606@davea.name>

On 04/13/2015 01:25 AM, Paul Rubin wrote:
> Dave Angel <davea at davea.name> writes:
>> But doesn't math.pow return a float?...
>> Or were you saying bignums bigger than a float can represent at all?  Like:
>>>>> x = 2**11111 -1  ...
>>>>> math.log2(x)
>> 11111.0
>
> Yes, exactly that.

Well that value x has some 3300 digits, and I seem to recall that float 
only can handle 10**320 or so.  But if the point of all this is to 
decide when to stop dividing, I think our numbers here are somewhere 
beyond the heat death of the universe.

   Thus (not completely tested):
>
>      def isqrt(x):
>          def log2(x): return math.log(x,2)  # python 2 compatibility
>          if x < 1e9:

Now 10**9 is way below either limit of floating point.  So i still don't 
know which way you were figuring it.  Just off the top of my head, I 
think 10**18 is approx when integers don't get exact representation, and 
10**320 is where you can't represent numbers as floats at all.

>             return int(math.ceil(math.sqrt(x)))
> 	a,b = divmod(log2(x), 1.0)
> 	c = int(a/2) - 10
> 	d = (b/2 + a/2 - c + 0.001)
> 	# now c+d = log2(x)+0.001, c is an integer, and
>          # d is a float between 10 and 11
> 	s = 2**c * int(math.ceil(2**d))
> 	return s
>
> should return slightly above the integer square root of x.  This is just
> off the top of my head and maybe it can be tweaked a bit.  Or maybe it's
> stupid and there's an obvious better way to do it that I'm missing.
>

If you're willing to use the 10**320 or whatever it is for the limit, I 
don't see what's wrong with just doing floating point sqrt.  Who cares 
if it can be an exact int, since we're just using it to get an upper limit.

And I can't figure out your code at this hour of night, but it's much 
more complicated than Newton's method would be anyway.

-- 
DaveA


From davea at davea.name  Mon Apr 13 01:46:37 2015
From: davea at davea.name (Dave Angel)
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 2015 01:46:37 -0400
Subject: installing error in python
In-Reply-To: <CAEp4JT3KjVkTY3ojoSDz9XG4DU09GcO8FuBQ0TXo=Jxnkj04qw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAEp4JT3KjVkTY3ojoSDz9XG4DU09GcO8FuBQ0TXo=Jxnkj04qw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <552B583D.9010303@davea.name>

On 04/13/2015 01:38 AM, Mahima Goyal wrote:
> error of corrupted file or directory is coming if i am installing
> python for 64 bit.
>

And what OS is that on, and how long has it been since you've done a 
file system check on the drive?


For that matter, what version of Python are you installing, and where 
are you getting the download for it?

-- 
DaveA


From rustompmody at gmail.com  Mon Apr 13 01:47:23 2015
From: rustompmody at gmail.com (Rustom Mody)
Date: Sun, 12 Apr 2015 22:47:23 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: installing error in python
In-Reply-To: <mailman.264.1428903499.12925.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.264.1428903499.12925.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <52eb032e-07b2-449c-aee9-8c7636b5905b@googlegroups.com>

On Monday, April 13, 2015 at 11:08:38 AM UTC+5:30, Mahima Goyal wrote:
> error of corrupted file or directory is coming if i am installing
> python for 64 bit.

1. Download again and install
2. Please specify OS and installation method
3. If persists, please paste error IN FULL


From cs at zip.com.au  Mon Apr 13 01:49:03 2015
From: cs at zip.com.au (Cameron Simpson)
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 2015 15:49:03 +1000
Subject: installing error in python
In-Reply-To: <CAEp4JT3KjVkTY3ojoSDz9XG4DU09GcO8FuBQ0TXo=Jxnkj04qw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAEp4JT3KjVkTY3ojoSDz9XG4DU09GcO8FuBQ0TXo=Jxnkj04qw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20150413054903.GA27137@cskk.homeip.net>

On 13Apr2015 11:08, Mahima Goyal <mahima.goyal92 at gmail.com> wrote:
>error of corrupted file or directory is coming if i am installing
>python for 64 bit.

You will need to supply more information.

What platform are you installing on? (Windows, Linux, something else? What 
version?)

What was the download page _and_ link you used to obtain "python for 64 bit"?

Cheers,
Cameron Simpson <cs at zip.com.au>

There's no need to worry about death, it will not happen in your lifetime.
        - Raymond Smullyan


From no.email at nospam.invalid  Mon Apr 13 01:57:50 2015
From: no.email at nospam.invalid (Paul Rubin)
Date: Sun, 12 Apr 2015 22:57:50 -0700
Subject: find all multiplicands and multipliers for a number
References: <890bd388-f50a-4dec-9ef5-27715427472a@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.209.1428714381.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <55288135$0$12997$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <87egnrb3il.fsf@jester.gateway.sonic.net>
 <87619387c0.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <90a8e07c-adb3-499f-8971-4ea49f6aea4b@googlegroups.com>
 <87lhhx7r44.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <87zj6czt84.fsf@jester.gateway.sonic.net>
 <mailman.262.1428892580.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <87vbh0zow3.fsf@jester.gateway.sonic.net>
 <mailman.263.1428899720.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <87r3rozjjp.fsf@jester.gateway.sonic.net>
 <mailman.265.1428903800.12925.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <87mw2czi1t.fsf@jester.gateway.sonic.net>

Dave Angel <davea at davea.name> writes:
>>          if x < 1e9:
> Now 10**9 is way below either limit of floating point. 

The idea was just to get rid of the case where c (further down in the
code) ends up being a negative number.  Floating point works fine for
numbers that small.

> And I can't figure out your code at this hour of night, but it's much
> more complicated than Newton's method would be anyway.

What I posted is just straightforward arithmetic.  I'd expect Newton's
method to be more complicated if you want to bound the error carefully
and make sure it is non-negative.  Maybe I'm wrong about that though.

Note my comment "d is between 10 and 11" is slightly inaccurate.  d can
in some cases be slightly above 11 but that is fine.


From steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info  Mon Apr 13 03:21:27 2015
From: steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 2015 17:21:27 +1000
Subject: find all multiplicands and multipliers for a number
References: <890bd388-f50a-4dec-9ef5-27715427472a@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.209.1428714381.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <55288135$0$12997$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <87egnrb3il.fsf@jester.gateway.sonic.net> <87619387c0.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <90a8e07c-adb3-499f-8971-4ea49f6aea4b@googlegroups.com>
 <87lhhx7r44.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net> <87zj6czt84.fsf@jester.gateway.sonic.net>
 <mailman.262.1428892580.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <87vbh0zow3.fsf@jester.gateway.sonic.net>
 <mailman.263.1428899720.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <87r3rozjjp.fsf@jester.gateway.sonic.net>
Message-ID: <552b6e78$0$12985$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

On Monday 13 April 2015 15:25, Paul Rubin wrote:

> Dave Angel <davea at davea.name> writes:
>> But doesn't math.pow return a float?...
>> Or were you saying bignums bigger than a float can represent at all? 
>> Like:
>>>>> x = 2**11111 -1  ...
>>>>> math.log2(x)
>> 11111.0
> 
> Yes, exactly that.  Thus (not completely tested):
>     
>     def isqrt(x):
>         def log2(x): return math.log(x,2)  # python 2 compatibility
>         if x < 1e9:
>            return int(math.ceil(math.sqrt(x)))
> a,b = divmod(log2(x), 1.0)
> c = int(a/2) - 10
> d = (b/2 + a/2 - c + 0.001)
> # now c+d = log2(x)+0.001, c is an integer, and
>         # d is a float between 10 and 11
> s = 2**c * int(math.ceil(2**d))
> return s
> 
> should return slightly above the integer square root of x.  This is just
> off the top of my head and maybe it can be tweaked a bit.  Or maybe it's
> stupid and there's an obvious better way to do it that I'm missing.

Check the archives: I started a thread last November titled "Challenge: 
optimizing isqrt" which is relevant. Also:

http://code.activestate.com/recipes/577821-integer-square-root-function/



-- 
Steve



From steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info  Mon Apr 13 03:23:57 2015
From: steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 2015 17:23:57 +1000
Subject: installing error in python
References: <mailman.264.1428903499.12925.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <552b6f0e$0$12985$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

On Monday 13 April 2015 15:38, Mahima Goyal wrote:

> error of corrupted file or directory is coming if i am installing
> python for 64 bit.

My sympathies. Did you have a question, or are you just sharing the bad 
news?



-- 
Steve



From hawkowl at atleastfornow.net  Mon Apr 13 04:17:24 2015
From: hawkowl at atleastfornow.net (HawkOwl)
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 2015 16:17:24 +0800
Subject: Twisted 15.1 Release Announcement
Message-ID: <A9B8205C-F287-472C-AA5F-8E6E132862F4@atleastfornow.net>

On behalf of Twisted Matrix Laboratories, I am honoured to announce the release of Twisted 15.1.0 -- just in time for the PyCon sprints!

This is not a big release, but does have some nice-to-haves:

- You can now install Twisted's optional dependencies easier -- for example, `pip install twisted[tls]` installs Twisted with TLS support.
- twisted.web.static.File allows defining a custom resource for rendering forbidden pages.
- Twisted's MSN support is now deprecated.
- More documentation has been added on how Trial finds tests.
- ...and 26 other closed tickets containing bug fixes, feature enhancements, and documentation.

For more information, check the NEWS file (link provided below).

You can find the downloads at <https://pypi.python.org/pypi/Twisted> (or alternatively <http://twistedmatrix.com/trac/wiki/Downloads>) . The NEWS file is also available at
<https://github.com/twisted/twisted/blob/releases/release-15.1.0-7758/NEWS>.

Many thanks to everyone who had a part in this release - the supporters of the Twisted Software Foundation, the developers who contributed code as well as documentation, and all the people building great things with Twisted!

Twisted Regards,
Hawkie Owl
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: signature.asc
Type: application/pgp-signature
Size: 455 bytes
Desc: Message signed with OpenPGP using GPGMail
URL: <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/attachments/20150413/6f5ac047/attachment.sig>

From jldunn2000 at gmail.com  Mon Apr 13 06:17:30 2015
From: jldunn2000 at gmail.com (loial)
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 2015 03:17:30 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: U.K. Royal Mail MailMark web service from python?
Message-ID: <d1bf9fb3-2f9f-47de-a668-8eb73125b18b@googlegroups.com>

Anyone out there got any examples of calling the UK Royal Mail Mailmark web service from python?




From userquery5 at gmail.com  Mon Apr 13 07:30:31 2015
From: userquery5 at gmail.com (userquery5 at gmail.com)
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 2015 04:30:31 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Excluding a few pawns from the game
Message-ID: <32505fc8-7bfc-402c-a32e-4c6f165ba841@googlegroups.com>

I am writing a function in python, where the function excludes a list of pawns from the game. The condition for excluding the pawns is whether the pawn is listed in the database DBPawnBoardChart. Here is my code:

      def _bring_bigchart_pawns(self, removed_list=set(), playing_amount=0):
            chart_pawns = DBPawnBoardChart.query().fetch()
            chart_pawns_filtered = []
            for bigchart_pawn in chart_pawns:
                pawn_number = bigchart_pawn.key.number()
                db = DBPawn.bring_by_number(pawn_number)
            if db is None:
                chart_pawn.key.delete() 
                logging.error('DBPawnBoardChart entry is none for chart_pawn = %s' % pawn_number)
            if pawn_number in chart_pawns:
                chart_pawn.add(pawn_number)
            else:
                exclude_pawn_numbers = ['1,2,3']
            chart_pawns_filtered.append(chart_pawn)
            pawn_numbers = [x.key.number() for x in chart_pawns_filtered]
            return pawn_numbers, chart_pawns, exclude_pawn_numbers  

If the pawn is listed in DBPawnBoardChart it should be added to the game or else it should be excluded. I am unable to exclude the pawns,the DBPawnBoardChart contains Boardnumber and Pawnnumber. What necessary changes should I make ?


From davea at davea.name  Mon Apr 13 08:15:17 2015
From: davea at davea.name (Dave Angel)
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 2015 08:15:17 -0400
Subject: Excluding a few pawns from the game
In-Reply-To: <32505fc8-7bfc-402c-a32e-4c6f165ba841@googlegroups.com>
References: <32505fc8-7bfc-402c-a32e-4c6f165ba841@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <552BB355.7010708@davea.name>

On 04/13/2015 07:30 AM, userquery5 at gmail.com wrote:
> I am writing a function in python, where the function excludes a list of pawns from the game. The condition for excluding the pawns is whether the pawn is listed in the database DBPawnBoardChart. Here is my code:
>
>        def _bring_bigchart_pawns(self, removed_list=set(), playing_amount=0):
>              chart_pawns = DBPawnBoardChart.query().fetch()
>              chart_pawns_filtered = []
>              for bigchart_pawn in chart_pawns:
>                  pawn_number = bigchart_pawn.key.number()
>                  db = DBPawn.bring_by_number(pawn_number)
>              if db is None:
>                  chart_pawn.key.delete()
>                  logging.error('DBPawnBoardChart entry is none for chart_pawn = %s' % pawn_number)
>              if pawn_number in chart_pawns:
>                  chart_pawn.add(pawn_number)
>              else:
>                  exclude_pawn_numbers = ['1,2,3']
>              chart_pawns_filtered.append(chart_pawn)
>              pawn_numbers = [x.key.number() for x in chart_pawns_filtered]
>              return pawn_numbers, chart_pawns, exclude_pawn_numbers
>
> If the pawn is listed in DBPawnBoardChart it should be added to the game or else it should be excluded. I am unable to exclude the pawns,the DBPawnBoardChart contains Boardnumber and Pawnnumber. What necessary changes should I make ?
>

Looks to me like an indentation error.  About 9 of those lines probably 
need to be included in the for loop, so they have to be indented further in.

-- 
DaveA


From yacinechaouche at yahoo.com  Mon Apr 13 10:04:20 2015
From: yacinechaouche at yahoo.com (Yassine Chaouche)
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 2015 07:04:20 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: bottle.py app doesn't timeout properly ?
Message-ID: <3910847f-decf-497d-bb99-cc3a5f19eb4a@googlegroups.com>

Hello,

I have written a script using bottle.py. The app works fine most of times. Sometimes though, the server takes time to respond and the web browser eventually drops the connection to the server after a certain time (timeout), showing this page : 

"""
Connection reset

The connection to the server was reset while the page was loading.

     This site may be temporarily unavailable or too busy. Try again in a few moments.
     If you can not load any pages, check your computer's network connection.
     If your computer or network is protected by a firewall or proxy, make sure that Firefox is permitted to access the web.

"""

In the app, I have setup faulthandler (https://pypi.python.org/pypi/faulthandler/2.4) in my application to respond to SIGUSER1. When I trigger the signal (while the server is hung), here's the traceback I get. It shows precisely where is my application hanging : 


Current thread 0x00007fb1a0bfe700 (most recent call first):
  File "/usr/lib/python2.7/socket.py", line 447 in readline
  File "/usr/lib/python2.7/wsgiref/simple_server.py", line 116 in handle
  File "/usr/lib/python2.7/SocketServer.py", line 649 in __init__
  File "/usr/lib/python2.7/SocketServer.py", line 334 in finish_request
  File "/usr/lib/python2.7/SocketServer.py", line 321 in process_request
  File "/usr/lib/python2.7/SocketServer.py", line 295 in _handle_request_noblock
  File "/usr/lib/python2.7/SocketServer.py", line 238 in serve_forever
  File "/usr/local/lib/python2.7/dist-packages/infomaniak/bottle.py", line 2680 in run
  File "/usr/local/lib/python2.7/dist-packages/infomaniak/bottle.py", line 3048 in run
  File "/usr/local/lib/python2.7/dist-packages/infomaniak/server.py", line 69 in <module>
  File "/usr/bin/infomaniak", line 2 in <module>


Instead of the readline call to timeout after a certain amount of time, it seems it gets stuck there forever. When I strace my app it, I find it stuck at the recvfrom system call : 


root at audio-mon[10.10.10.82] ~ # service infomaniak status
infomaniak is running with pid 2149
root at audio-mon[10.10.10.82] ~ # strace -fp 2149
Process 2149 attached - interrupt to quit
recvfrom(7, ^C <unfinished ...>
Process 2149 detached
root at audio-mon[10.10.10.82] ~ # 

It is stuck there for hours (7 hours now). 

How can I fix this ? this behaviour is also hard to reproduce, I don't know what triggers it. The app was working fine for almost a month, no problem at all. 

Here's code : 

#!/usr/bin/env python
#-*- encoding=utf-8 -*-

# infomaniak.getFlux() et infomaniak.login()
import infomaniak
# Pour la localisation des fichiers HTML
import pkg_resources
import logging
import ConfigParser
# pour attrapper l'exception requests.exceptions.ConnectionError
import requests
# pour faire tourner le schmilblick
import bottle
# service infomaniak reload
import signal
# service infomaniak trace
import faulthandler

cp = ConfigParser.ConfigParser()
cp.read("/etc/infomaniak.conf")
PORT      = cp.getint("SERVER","PORT")
USER      = cp.get("LOGIN","USER")
PASS      = cp.get("LOGIN","PASS")
LOG_LEVEL = cp.get("LOG","LOG_LEVEL")

logging.basicConfig(filename='/var/log/infomaniak/main.log',
                    level=getattr(logging,LOG_LEVEL),
                    format='%(asctime)s [%(levelname)s] %(message)s'
                   )
logging.info("========================= START ==========================")
logging.info("Reading config file Ok.. Serving on port %s" % (PORT))

def reload_conf(signal,frame):
    logging.info("========================= RELOAD ==========================")
    logging.info("Reading config file Ok.. Serving on port %s" % (PORT))
    cp = ConfigParser.ConfigParser()
    cp.read("/etc/infomaniak.conf")
    LOG_LEVEL = cp.get("LOG","LOG_LEVEL")
    logging.getLogger().setLevel(getattr(logging,LOG_LEVEL))
    logging.info("LOG LEVEL %s" % (LOG_LEVEL))

signal.signal(signal.SIGUSR2,reload_conf)
faulthandler.register(signal.SIGUSR1,file=open("/var/log/infomaniak/main.log","a"))


@bottle.route("/<url:path>")
def get(url):
    # print "thing",url
    # logging.info("--------------------------------------------------------------------------")
    # logging.info("[%s:%s] get %s" % (self.client_address[0],self.client_address[1],self.path))
    # MUST BE OF THE FORM :
    # https://statslive.infomaniak.com/radio/config/formatsflux.php/g3377s3i4402
    return infomaniak.getFlux(url.lstrip("/"),USER,PASS)

logged_in = False
attempts  = 1

while (logged_in == False) :
    logging.info("login...(tentative %d)" % attempts)
    try: 
        infomaniak.login(USER,PASS)
        logged_in = True
    except requests.exceptions.ConnectionError,e:
        logging.critical("Impossible de se connecter au serveur infomaniak")
        logging.critical(e)
        attempts+=1

logging.info("login OK (tentatives : %d)" % attempts)
bottle.run(host='',port=PORT)
logging.info("========================= STOP ==========================")


Any ideas on how to debug this or try to reproduce it ? anyone encountered similar behaviour ? 

I should mention that I don't query my server directly, but through web page (on yet another server on the same LAN) that has an HTML page with like 11 <iframe>s, all the iframes having their hrefs to my application, like this : 

<iframe src="http://10.10.10.82:8081/url1..."></iframe>
<iframe src="http://10.10.10.82:8081/url2..."></iframe>
<iframe src="http://10.10.10.82:8081/url3..."></iframe>

etc.

My app being sereved on 10.10.10.82:8081.

Thanks for any help.


From malaclypse2 at gmail.com  Mon Apr 13 10:19:23 2015
From: malaclypse2 at gmail.com (Jerry Hill)
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 2015 10:19:23 -0400
Subject: Anyone used snap.py for drawing a graph?
In-Reply-To: <6df02ce8-7e2f-45df-b2df-ab7001a9f9be@googlegroups.com>
References: <6df02ce8-7e2f-45df-b2df-ab7001a9f9be@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <CADwdpyYdby0OZhH5PVEdrAfRO0_VxS=yMDvaYEAM6DKAD66TRw@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, Apr 12, 2015 at 10:29 PM, Pippo <adm2303.2304 at gmail.com> wrote:
> Any guide on this?
>
> http://snap.stanford.edu/snappy/#download

Sure.  http://snap.stanford.edu/snappy/#docs


From fabien.maussion at gmail.com  Mon Apr 13 10:58:01 2015
From: fabien.maussion at gmail.com (Fabien)
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 2015 16:58:01 +0200
Subject: Pickle based workflow - looking for advice
Message-ID: <mgglho$tpc$1@speranza.aioe.org>

Folks,

I am writing a quite extensive piece of scientific software. Its 
workflow is quite easy to explain. The tool realizes series of 
operations on watersheds (such as mapping data on it, geostatistics and 
more). There are thousands of independent watersheds of different size, 
and the size determines the computing time spent on each of them.

Say I have the operations A, B, C and D. B and C are completely 
independent but they need A to be run first, D needs B and C, and so 
forth. Eventually the whole operations A, B, C and D will run once for 
all, but of course the whole development is an iterative process and I 
rerun all operations many times.

Currently my workflow is defined as follows:

Define a unique ID and file directory for each watershed, and define A 
and B:

def A(watershed_dir):
	# read some external data
	# do stuff
	# Store the stuff in a Watershed object
	# save it
	f_pickle = os.path.join(watershed_dir, 'watershed.p')
	with open(f_pickle, 'wb') as f:
		pickle.dump(watershed, f)

def B(watershed_directory):
	w = pickle.read()
	f_pickle = os.path.join(watershed_dir, 'watershed.p')
	with open(f_pickle, 'rb') as f:
		watershed = pickle.load(f)
	# do new stuff
	# store it in watershed and save
	with open(f_pickle, 'wb') as f:
		pickle.dump(watershed, f)

So the watershed object is a data container which grows in content. The 
pickle that stores the info can reach a few Mb of size. I chose this 
strategy because A, B, C and D are independent, but they can share their 
results through the pickle. The functions have a single argument (the 
path to the working directory), which means that when I run the 
thousands catchments I can use the multiprocessing pool:

	import multiprocessing as mp
	poolargs = [list of directories]
         pool = mp.Pool()
         poolout = pool.map(A, poolargs, chunksize=1)
         poolout = pool.map(B, poolargs, chunksize=1)
	etc.

I can easily choose to rerun just B without rerunning A. Reading and 
writing pickle times is real slow in comparison to the other stuffs to 
do (running B or C on a single catchment can take seconds for example).

Now, to my questions:
1. Does that seem reasonable?
2. Should Watershed be an object or should it be a simple dictionary? I 
thought that an object could be nice, because it could take care of some 
operations such as plotting and logging. Currently I defined a class 
Watershed, but its attributes are defined and filled by A, B and C (this 
seems a bit wrong to me). I could give more responsibilities to this 
class but it might become way too big: since the whole purpose of the 
tool is to work on watersheds, making a Watershed class actually sounds 
like a code smell (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/God_object)
3. The operation A opens an external file, reads data out of it and 
writes it in Watershed object. Is it a bad idea to multiprocess this? (I 
guess it is, since the file might be read twice at the same time)
4. Other comments you might have?

Sorry for the lengthy mail but thanks for any tip.

Fabien




	


From jeanpierreda at gmail.com  Mon Apr 13 11:45:50 2015
From: jeanpierreda at gmail.com (Devin Jeanpierre)
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 2015 11:45:50 -0400
Subject: Pickle based workflow - looking for advice
In-Reply-To: <mgglho$tpc$1@speranza.aioe.org>
References: <mgglho$tpc$1@speranza.aioe.org>
Message-ID: <CABicbJ+hUPCRSw=_6UehKwcf_11x2rv5TEza1KRKqeiKee4T-A@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Apr 13, 2015 at 10:58 AM, Fabien <fabien.maussion at gmail.com> wrote:
> Now, to my questions:
> 1. Does that seem reasonable?

A big issue is the use of pickle, which is:

* Often suboptimal performance wise (e.g. you can't load only subsets
of the data)
* Makes forwards/backwards compatibility very difficult
* Can make python 2/3 migrations harder
* Creates data files which are difficult to analyze/fix by hand if
they get broken
* Is schemaless, and can accidentally include irrelevant data you
didn't mean to store, making all of the above worse.
* Means you have to be very careful who wrote the pickles, or you open
a remote code execution vulnerability. It's common for people to
forget that code is unsafe, and get themselves pwned. Security is
always better if you don't do anything bad in the first place, than if
you do something bad but try to manage the context in which the bad
thing is done.

Cap'n Proto might be a decent alternatives that gives you good
performance, by letting you process only the bits of the file you want
to. It is also not a walking security nightmare.

> 2. Should Watershed be an object or should it be a simple dictionary? I
> thought that an object could be nice, because it could take care of some
> operations such as plotting and logging. Currently I defined a class
> Watershed, but its attributes are defined and filled by A, B and C (this
> seems a bit wrong to me).

It is usually very confusing for attributes to be defined anywhere
other than __init__. It's very really confusing for them to be defined
by some random other function living somewhere else.

> I could give more responsibilities to this class
> but it might become way too big: since the whole purpose of the tool is to
> work on watersheds, making a Watershed class actually sounds like a code
> smell (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/God_object)

Whether they are methods or not doesn't make this any more or less of
a god object -- if it stores all this data used by all these different
things, it is already a bit off.

> 3. The operation A opens an external file, reads data out of it and writes
> it in Watershed object. Is it a bad idea to multiprocess this? (I guess it
> is, since the file might be read twice at the same time)

That does sound like a bad idea, for the reason you gave. It might be
possible to read it once, and share it among many processes.

-- Devin


From robin at reportlab.com  Mon Apr 13 11:53:59 2015
From: robin at reportlab.com (Robin Becker)
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 2015 16:53:59 +0100
Subject: Pickle based workflow - looking for advice
In-Reply-To: <mgglho$tpc$1@speranza.aioe.org>
References: <mgglho$tpc$1@speranza.aioe.org>
Message-ID: <552BE697.7080800@chamonix.reportlab.co.uk>

for what it's worth I believe that marshal is a faster method for storing simple 
python objects. So if your information can be stored using simple python things 
eg strings, floats, integers, lists and dicts then storage using marshal is 
faster than pickle/cpickle. If you want to persist the objects for years then 
the pickle protocol is probably better as it is not python version dependant.
-- 
Robin Becker


From davea at davea.name  Mon Apr 13 12:25:38 2015
From: davea at davea.name (Dave Angel)
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 2015 12:25:38 -0400
Subject: Pickle based workflow - looking for advice
In-Reply-To: <mgglho$tpc$1@speranza.aioe.org>
References: <mgglho$tpc$1@speranza.aioe.org>
Message-ID: <552BEE02.1050701@davea.name>

On 04/13/2015 10:58 AM, Fabien wrote:
> Folks,
>

A comment.  Pickle is a method of creating persistent data, most 
commonly used to preserve data between runs.  A database is another 
method.  Although either one can also be used with multiprocessing, you 
seem to be worrying more about the mechanism, and not enough about the 
problem.

> I am writing a quite extensive piece of scientific software. Its
> workflow is quite easy to explain. The tool realizes series of
> operations on watersheds (such as mapping data on it, geostatistics and
> more). There are thousands of independent watersheds of different size,
> and the size determines the computing time spent on each of them.

First question:  what is the name or "identity" of a watershed? 
Apparently it's named by a directory.  But you mention ID as well.  You 
write a function A() that takes only a directory name. Is that the name 
of the watershed?  One per directory?  And you can derive the ID from 
the directory name?

Second question, is there any communication between watersheds, or are 
they totally independent?

Third:  this "external data", is it dynamic, do you have to fetch it in 
a particular order, is it separated by watershed id, or what?

Fourth:  when the program starts, are the directories all empty, so the 
presence of a pickle file tells you that A() has run?  Or is there some 
other meaning for those files?

>
> Say I have the operations A, B, C and D. B and C are completely
> independent but they need A to be run first, D needs B and C, and so
> forth. Eventually the whole operations A, B, C and D will run once for
> all,

For all what?

> but of course the whole development is an iterative process and I
> rerun all operations many times.

Based on what?  Is the external data changing, and you have to rerun 
functions to update what you've already stored about them?  Or do you 
just mean you call the A() function on every possible watershed?



(I suddenly have to go out, so I can't comment on the rest, except that 
choosing to pickle, or to marshall, or to database, or to 
custom-serialize seems a bit premature.  You may have it all clear in 
your head, but I can't see what the interplay between all these calls to 
one-letter-named functions is intended to be.)


-- 
DaveA


From __peter__ at web.de  Mon Apr 13 13:08:50 2015
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 2015 19:08:50 +0200
Subject: Pickle based workflow - looking for advice
References: <mgglho$tpc$1@speranza.aioe.org>
Message-ID: <mggt73$334$1@ger.gmane.org>

Fabien wrote:

> I am writing a quite extensive piece of scientific software. Its
> workflow is quite easy to explain. The tool realizes series of
> operations on watersheds (such as mapping data on it, geostatistics and
> more). There are thousands of independent watersheds of different size,
> and the size determines the computing time spent on each of them.
> 
> Say I have the operations A, B, C and D. B and C are completely
> independent but they need A to be run first, D needs B and C, and so
> forth. Eventually the whole operations A, B, C and D will run once for
> all, but of course the whole development is an iterative process and I
> rerun all operations many times.

> 4. Other comments you might have?

How about a file-based workflow?

Write distinct scripts, e. g.

a2b.py that reads from *.a and writes to *.b

and so on. Then use a plain old makefile to define the dependencies.
Whether .a uses pickle, .b uses json, and .z uses csv is but an 
implementation detail that only its producers and consumers need to know. 
Testing an arbitrary step is as easy as invoking the respective script with 
some prefabricated input and checking the resulting output file(s).




From fabien.maussion at gmail.com  Mon Apr 13 13:30:24 2015
From: fabien.maussion at gmail.com (Fabien)
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 2015 19:30:24 +0200
Subject: Pickle based workflow - looking for advice
References: <mgglho$tpc$1@speranza.aioe.org>
 <mailman.276.1428942352.12925.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <mgguff$mua$1@speranza.aioe.org>

On 13.04.2015 18:25, Dave Angel wrote:
> On 04/13/2015 10:58 AM, Fabien wrote:
>> Folks,
>>
>
> A comment.  Pickle is a method of creating persistent data, most
> commonly used to preserve data between runs.  A database is another
> method.  Although either one can also be used with multiprocessing, you
> seem to be worrying more about the mechanism, and not enough about the
> problem.
>
>> I am writing a quite extensive piece of scientific software. Its
>> workflow is quite easy to explain. The tool realizes series of
>> operations on watersheds (such as mapping data on it, geostatistics and
>> more). There are thousands of independent watersheds of different size,
>> and the size determines the computing time spent on each of them.
>
> First question:  what is the name or "identity" of a watershed?
> Apparently it's named by a directory.  But you mention ID as well.  You
> write a function A() that takes only a directory name. Is that the name
> of the watershed?  One per directory?  And you can derive the ID from
> the directory name?
>
> Second question, is there any communication between watersheds, or are
> they totally independent?
>
> Third:  this "external data", is it dynamic, do you have to fetch it in
> a particular order, is it separated by watershed id, or what?
>
> Fourth:  when the program starts, are the directories all empty, so the
> presence of a pickle file tells you that A() has run?  Or is there some
> other meaning for those files?
>
>>
>> Say I have the operations A, B, C and D. B and C are completely
>> independent but they need A to be run first, D needs B and C, and so
>> forth. Eventually the whole operations A, B, C and D will run once for
>> all,
>
> For all what?
>
>> but of course the whole development is an iterative process and I
>> rerun all operations many times.
>
> Based on what?  Is the external data changing, and you have to rerun
> functions to update what you've already stored about them?  Or do you
> just mean you call the A() function on every possible watershed?
>
>
>
> (I suddenly have to go out, so I can't comment on the rest, except that
> choosing to pickle, or to marshall, or to database, or to
> custom-serialize seems a bit premature.  You may have it all clear in
> your head, but I can't see what the interplay between all these calls to
> one-letter-named functions is intended to be.)


Thanks Dave for your interest. I'll make an example:

external files:
- watershed outlines (single file)
- global topography (single file)
- climate data (single file)

Each watershed has an ID. Each watershed is completely independant.

So the function A for example will take one ID as argument, open the 
watershed file and extract its outlines, make a local map, open the 
topography file, extract a part of it, make a watershed object and store 
the watersheds local data in it.

Function B will open the watershed pickle, take the local information it 
needs (like local topography, already cropped to the region of interest) 
and map climate data on it.

And so forth, so that each function A, B, C, ... builds upon the 
information of the others and adds it's own "service" in terms of data.

Currently, all data (numpy arrays and vecor objects mostly) are stored 
as object attributes, which is I guess bad practice. It's kind of a 
"database for dummies": read topography of watershed ID 0128 will be:
- open watershed.p in the '0128' directory
- read the watershed.topography attribute

I think that I like Peter's idea to follow a file based workflow 
instead, and forget about my watershed object for now.

But I'd still be interested in your comments if you find time for it.

Fabien



From fabien.maussion at gmail.com  Mon Apr 13 13:35:28 2015
From: fabien.maussion at gmail.com (Fabien)
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 2015 19:35:28 +0200
Subject: Pickle based workflow - looking for advice
References: <mgglho$tpc$1@speranza.aioe.org>
 <mailman.277.1428944943.12925.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <mgguou$nn0$1@speranza.aioe.org>

On 13.04.2015 19:08, Peter Otten wrote:
> How about a file-based workflow?
>
> Write distinct scripts, e. g.
>
> a2b.py that reads from *.a and writes to *.b
>
> and so on. Then use a plain old makefile to define the dependencies.
> Whether .a uses pickle, .b uses json, and .z uses csv is but an
> implementation detail that only its producers and consumers need to know.
> Testing an arbitrary step is as easy as invoking the respective script with
> some prefabricated input and checking the resulting output file(s).

I think I like the idea because it is more durable. The data I 
manipulate comes with specific formats which are very efficient. With 
the pickle I was kind of "lazy" and, well, saved a couple of read/write 
routines.

Still, your idea is probably more elegant.

With multiprocessing, do I have to care about processes writing 
simultaneously in *different* files? I guess the OS takes good care of 
this stuff but I'm not an expert.

Tahnks,

Fabien



From fabien.maussion at gmail.com  Mon Apr 13 13:39:31 2015
From: fabien.maussion at gmail.com (Fabien)
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 2015 19:39:31 +0200
Subject: Pickle based workflow - looking for advice
References: <mgglho$tpc$1@speranza.aioe.org>
 <mailman.274.1428939998.12925.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <mggv0h$o3q$1@speranza.aioe.org>

On 13.04.2015 17:45, Devin Jeanpierre wrote:
> On Mon, Apr 13, 2015 at 10:58 AM, Fabien<fabien.maussion at gmail.com>  wrote:
>> >Now, to my questions:
>> >1. Does that seem reasonable?
> A big issue is the use of pickle, which is:
>
> * Often suboptimal performance wise (e.g. you can't load only subsets
> of the data)
> * Makes forwards/backwards compatibility very difficult
> * Can make python 2/3 migrations harder
> * Creates data files which are difficult to analyze/fix by hand if
> they get broken
> * Is schemaless, and can accidentally include irrelevant data you
> didn't mean to store, making all of the above worse.
> * Means you have to be very careful who wrote the pickles, or you open
> a remote code execution vulnerability. It's common for people to
> forget that code is unsafe, and get themselves pwned. Security is
> always better if you don't do anything bad in the first place, than if
> you do something bad but try to manage the context in which the bad
> thing is done.
>
> Cap'n Proto might be a decent alternatives that gives you good
> performance, by letting you process only the bits of the file you want
> to. It is also not a walking security nightmare.

Thanks for your thoughts. All these concerns are rather secondary for 
the kind of tool I am working on, with the exception of speed. I will 
have a look at Proto


>
>> >2. Should Watershed be an object or should it be a simple dictionary? I
>> >thought that an object could be nice, because it could take care of some
>> >operations such as plotting and logging. Currently I defined a class
>> >Watershed, but its attributes are defined and filled by A, B and C (this
>> >seems a bit wrong to me).
> It is usually very confusing for attributes to be defined anywhere
> other than __init__. It's very really confusing for them to be defined
> by some random other function living somewhere else.

Yes, OK. I will stop that.

>> >I could give more responsibilities to this class
>> >but it might become way too big: since the whole purpose of the tool is to
>> >work on watersheds, making a Watershed class actually sounds like a code
>> >smell (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/God_object)
> Whether they are methods or not doesn't make this any more or less of
> a god object -- if it stores all this data used by all these different
> things, it is already a bit off.

Yes, but I see no other way. The "god" container will probably be the 
watershed's directory with the data in it. The rest will specialize.


>> >3. The operation A opens an external file, reads data out of it and writes
>> >it in Watershed object. Is it a bad idea to multiprocess this? (I guess it
>> >is, since the file might be read twice at the same time)
> That does sound like a bad idea, for the reason you gave. It might be
> possible to read it once, and share it among many processes.

Yes. Thanks!



From adm2303.2304 at gmail.com  Mon Apr 13 15:33:55 2015
From: adm2303.2304 at gmail.com (Pippo)
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 2015 12:33:55 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: installing matplotlib
Message-ID: <176d49d3-6ff8-4d35-b8ec-647f13250135@googlegroups.com>

Hi guys,

I am trying to install matplotlib and I keep getting error:

Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "setup.py", line 155, in <module>
    result = package.check()
  File "/Users/sepidehghanavati/Desktop/Programs/python/matplotlib-1.4.3/setupext.py", line 961, in check
    min_version='2.3', version=version)
  File "/Users/sepidehghanavati/Desktop/Programs/python/matplotlib-1.4.3/setupext.py", line 445, in _check_for_pkg_config
    if (not is_min_version(version, min_version)):
  File "/Users/sepidehghanavati/Desktop/Programs/python/matplotlib-1.4.3/setupext.py", line 173, in is_min_version
    return found_version >= expected_version
  File "/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/3.3/lib/python3.3/distutils/version.py", line 76, in __ge__
    c = self._cmp(other)
  File "/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/3.3/lib/python3.3/distutils/version.py", line 343, in _cmp
    if self.version < other.version:
TypeError: unorderable types: str() < int()

any idea?


From nad at acm.org  Mon Apr 13 15:58:31 2015
From: nad at acm.org (Ned Deily)
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 2015 12:58:31 -0700
Subject: installing matplotlib
References: <176d49d3-6ff8-4d35-b8ec-647f13250135@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <nad-02B349.12583113042015@news.gmane.org>

In article <176d49d3-6ff8-4d35-b8ec-647f13250135 at googlegroups.com>,
 Pippo <adm2303.2304 at gmail.com> wrote:
> I am trying to install matplotlib and I keep getting error:
[...]
>   File 
>   "/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/3.3/lib/python3.3/distutils/v
>   ersion.py", line 343, in _cmp
>     if self.version < other.version:
> TypeError: unorderable types: str() < int()
> 
> any idea?

If you are running on OS X 10.10 (Yosemite), try upgrading to a current 
Python 3.4.x.  3.3.x is no longer supported and was released long before 
Yosemite was.

http://bugs.python.org/issue21811

-- 
 Ned Deily,
 nad at acm.org



From adm2303.2304 at gmail.com  Mon Apr 13 16:28:14 2015
From: adm2303.2304 at gmail.com (Pippo)
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 2015 13:28:14 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: installing matplotlib
In-Reply-To: <mailman.278.1428955122.12925.python-list@python.org>
References: <176d49d3-6ff8-4d35-b8ec-647f13250135@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.278.1428955122.12925.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <31b10696-6bea-40d5-81d1-a820df31796c@googlegroups.com>

On Monday, 13 April 2015 15:58:58 UTC-4, Ned Deily  wrote:
> In article <176d49d3-6ff8-4d35-b8ec-647f13250135 at googlegroups.com>,
>  Pippo <adm2303.2304 at gmail.com> wrote:
> > I am trying to install matplotlib and I keep getting error:
> [...]
> >   File 
> >   "/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/3.3/lib/python3.3/distutils/v
> >   ersion.py", line 343, in _cmp
> >     if self.version < other.version:
> > TypeError: unorderable types: str() < int()
> > 
> > any idea?
> 
> If you are running on OS X 10.10 (Yosemite), try upgrading to a current 
> Python 3.4.x.  3.3.x is no longer supported and was released long before 
> Yosemite was.
> 
> http://bugs.python.org/issue21811
> 
> -- 
>  Ned Deily,
>  nad at acm.org

Thanks


From adm2303.2304 at gmail.com  Mon Apr 13 20:41:08 2015
From: adm2303.2304 at gmail.com (Pippo)
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 2015 17:41:08 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: showing  a graph
Message-ID: <553eeba1-1521-4f92-8024-904512aed24b@googlegroups.com>

Hi, 

I want to show the graph for this code:

import re
from Tkinter import *
import tkFileDialog
import testpattern
import networkx as nx
import matplotlib.pyplot as plt

patternresult =[]
nodes = {}
edges = {}

pattern = ['(#P\[\w*\])', '(#C\[\w*[\s\(\w\,\s\|\)]+\])',
           '(#ST\[\w*[\s\(\w\,\s\|\)]+\])', '(#A\[\w*[\s\(\w\,\s\|\)]+\])']


patternresult = testpattern.patternfinder()

G=nx.Graph()


for patres in patternresult:
    G.add_node(patres)
    if patres[1] == "P":
        first_node = patres
    

for patres in patternresult:
    
    if patres[1:3] == "ST":
        G.add_edge(first_node, patres, label="Sub-type")
    elif patres[1:2] == "C":
        G.add_edge(first_node, patres, label="Constraint_by")
    elif patres[1:3] == "A":
        G.add_edge(first_node, patres, label="Created_by")
    
#graph = G.edge()
pos = nx.shell_layout(G)
#nx.draw(G, pos)


nx.draw_networkx_nodes(G, pos, nodelist=None,
                       node_size=300, node_color='r',
                       node_shape='o', alpha=1.0,
                       cmap=None, vmin=None, vmax=None,
                       ax=None, linewidths=None)
nx.draw_networkx_edges(G, pos, edgelist=None, width=1.0, edge_color='k',
                       style='solid',alpha=None, edge_cmap=None,
                       edge_vmin=None, edge_vmax=None,ax=None, arrows=True)
nx.draw_networkx_labels(G, pos,font_size=10, font_family='sans-serif')

plt.show()

#plt.savefig("path.png")

    
But when I run the code, only a bar is shown on my desktop without showing the proper graph. Note that I checked the number of edges and the number of nodes and they are correct and this output also has been shown:
 
#C[Health]
#P[Information]
#ST[genetic information]
#C[oral | (recorded in (any form | medium))]
#C[Is created or received by]
#A[health care provider | health plan | public health authority | employer | life insurer | school | university | or health care clearinghouse]
#C[Relates to]
#C[the past, present, or future physical | mental health | condition of an individual]
#C[the provision of health care to an individual]
#C[the past, present, or future payment for the provision of health care to an individual]

I don't get any error. Just that I don't see any graph!


From no.email at nospam.invalid  Mon Apr 13 22:42:03 2015
From: no.email at nospam.invalid (Paul Rubin)
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 2015 19:42:03 -0700
Subject: find all multiplicands and multipliers for a number
References: <890bd388-f50a-4dec-9ef5-27715427472a@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.209.1428714381.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <55288135$0$12997$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <87egnrb3il.fsf@jester.gateway.sonic.net>
 <87619387c0.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <90a8e07c-adb3-499f-8971-4ea49f6aea4b@googlegroups.com>
 <87lhhx7r44.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <87zj6czt84.fsf@jester.gateway.sonic.net>
 <mailman.262.1428892580.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <87vbh0zow3.fsf@jester.gateway.sonic.net>
 <mailman.263.1428899720.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <87r3rozjjp.fsf@jester.gateway.sonic.net>
 <552b6e78$0$12985$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <87egnnzb0k.fsf@jester.gateway.sonic.net>

Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info> writes:
> http://code.activestate.com/recipes/577821-integer-square-root-function/

The methods there are more "mathematical" but probably slower than what
I posted.

Just for laughs, this prints the first 20 primes using Python 3's 
"yield from":

    import itertools

    def sieve(ps):
        p = ps.__next__()
        yield p
        yield from sieve(a for a in ps if a % p != 0)

    primes = sieve(itertools.count(2))
    print(list(itertools.islice(primes,20)))

It's not that practical above a few hundred primes, probably.


From rosuav at gmail.com  Mon Apr 13 22:47:43 2015
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 2015 12:47:43 +1000
Subject: find all multiplicands and multipliers for a number
In-Reply-To: <87egnnzb0k.fsf@jester.gateway.sonic.net>
References: <890bd388-f50a-4dec-9ef5-27715427472a@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.209.1428714381.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <55288135$0$12997$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <87egnrb3il.fsf@jester.gateway.sonic.net>
 <87619387c0.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <90a8e07c-adb3-499f-8971-4ea49f6aea4b@googlegroups.com>
 <87lhhx7r44.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <87zj6czt84.fsf@jester.gateway.sonic.net>
 <mailman.262.1428892580.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <87vbh0zow3.fsf@jester.gateway.sonic.net>
 <mailman.263.1428899720.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <87r3rozjjp.fsf@jester.gateway.sonic.net>
 <552b6e78$0$12985$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <87egnnzb0k.fsf@jester.gateway.sonic.net>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmr-fFpCnKnAUE0nXCVS4W8vqJCbGxCMaHW7RpN49r=gKQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Apr 14, 2015 at 12:42 PM, Paul Rubin <no.email at nospam.invalid> wrote:
> Just for laughs, this prints the first 20 primes using Python 3's
> "yield from":
>
>     import itertools
>
>     def sieve(ps):
>         p = ps.__next__()
>         yield p
>         yield from sieve(a for a in ps if a % p != 0)
>
>     primes = sieve(itertools.count(2))
>     print(list(itertools.islice(primes,20)))

Small point: Calling dunder methods is usually a bad idea, so I'd
change this to "p = next(ps)" instead. But yep, that works...
inefficiently, but it works.

ChrisA


From no.email at nospam.invalid  Mon Apr 13 22:54:43 2015
From: no.email at nospam.invalid (Paul Rubin)
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 2015 19:54:43 -0700
Subject: find all multiplicands and multipliers for a number
References: <890bd388-f50a-4dec-9ef5-27715427472a@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.209.1428714381.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <55288135$0$12997$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <87egnrb3il.fsf@jester.gateway.sonic.net>
 <87619387c0.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <90a8e07c-adb3-499f-8971-4ea49f6aea4b@googlegroups.com>
 <87lhhx7r44.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <87zj6czt84.fsf@jester.gateway.sonic.net>
 <mailman.262.1428892580.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <87vbh0zow3.fsf@jester.gateway.sonic.net>
 <mailman.263.1428899720.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <87r3rozjjp.fsf@jester.gateway.sonic.net>
 <552b6e78$0$12985$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <87egnnzb0k.fsf@jester.gateway.sonic.net>
 <mailman.279.1428979666.12925.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <87a8ybzafg.fsf@jester.gateway.sonic.net>

Chris Angelico <rosuav at gmail.com> writes:
> Small point: Calling dunder methods is usually a bad idea, so I'd
> change this to "p = next(ps)" instead.

Oh yes, I forgot about that.  I'm used to ps.next() and was irritated to
find that it doesn't work in Python 3, so I did the ugly thing that was
closest.  Thanks.


From rosuav at gmail.com  Tue Apr 14 00:05:11 2015
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 2015 14:05:11 +1000
Subject: Pickle based workflow - looking for advice
In-Reply-To: <mgguou$nn0$1@speranza.aioe.org>
References: <mgglho$tpc$1@speranza.aioe.org>
 <mailman.277.1428944943.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <mgguou$nn0$1@speranza.aioe.org>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmrmA1BzosLB5UBhVTRpPX3Vs5VWyvyw0jyib_xWLkNnOw@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Apr 14, 2015 at 3:35 AM, Fabien <fabien.maussion at gmail.com> wrote:
> With multiprocessing, do I have to care about processes writing
> simultaneously in *different* files? I guess the OS takes good care of this
> stuff but I'm not an expert.

Not sure what you mean, here. Any given file will be written by
exactly one process? No possible problem. Multiprocessing within one
application doesn't change that.

ChrisA


From glyph at twistedmatrix.com  Tue Apr 14 01:23:32 2015
From: glyph at twistedmatrix.com (Glyph)
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 2015 01:23:32 -0400
Subject: [Twisted-web] Twisted 15.1 Release Announcement
In-Reply-To: <A9B8205C-F287-472C-AA5F-8E6E132862F4@atleastfornow.net>
References: <A9B8205C-F287-472C-AA5F-8E6E132862F4@atleastfornow.net>
Message-ID: <4342E895-7EC5-421A-804C-5887CE5F539F@twistedmatrix.com>


> On Apr 13, 2015, at 04:17, HawkOwl <hawkowl at atleastfornow.net> wrote:
> 
> On behalf of Twisted Matrix Laboratories, I am honoured to announce the release of Twisted 15.1.0 -- just in time for the PyCon sprints!
> 
> This is not a big release, but does have some nice-to-haves:
> 
> - You can now install Twisted's optional dependencies easier -- for example, `pip install twisted[tls]` installs Twisted with TLS support.
> - twisted.web.static.File allows defining a custom resource for rendering forbidden pages.
> - Twisted's MSN support is now deprecated.
> - More documentation has been added on how Trial finds tests.
> - ...and 26 other closed tickets containing bug fixes, feature enhancements, and documentation.
> 
> For more information, check the NEWS file (link provided below).
> 
> You can find the downloads at <https://pypi.python.org/pypi/Twisted> (or alternatively <http://twistedmatrix.com/trac/wiki/Downloads>) . The NEWS file is also available at
> <https://github.com/twisted/twisted/blob/releases/release-15.1.0-7758/NEWS>.
> 
> Many thanks to everyone who had a part in this release - the supporters of the Twisted Software Foundation, the developers who contributed code as well as documentation, and all the people building great things with Twisted!
> 
> Twisted Regards,
> Hawkie Owl

This is very exciting.  I am SUPER PUMPED to start telling people to `pip install twisted[tls]? instead of the whole mess it used to be.  Thanks in particular to you, Hawkie, and to Chris Wolfe who landed that patch (and brought twisted stickers to PyCon!)

-glyph

-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: signature.asc
Type: application/pgp-signature
Size: 630 bytes
Desc: Message signed with OpenPGP using GPGMail
URL: <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/attachments/20150414/37b6e721/attachment.sig>

From fabien.maussion at gmail.com  Tue Apr 14 03:58:17 2015
From: fabien.maussion at gmail.com (Fabien)
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 2015 09:58:17 +0200
Subject: Pickle based workflow - looking for advice
References: <mgglho$tpc$1@speranza.aioe.org>
 <mailman.277.1428944943.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <mgguou$nn0$1@speranza.aioe.org>
 <mailman.280.1428984319.12925.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <mgihao$cjc$1@speranza.aioe.org>

On 14.04.2015 06:05, Chris Angelico wrote:
> Not sure what you mean, here. Any given file will be written by
> exactly one process? No possible problem. Multiprocessing within one
> application doesn't change that.

yes that's what I meant. Thanks!


From traciscrouch at yahoo.com  Tue Apr 14 04:15:53 2015
From: traciscrouch at yahoo.com (traciscrouch)
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 2015 01:15:53 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: How To Convert Pdf Files To XML Spreadsheet
Message-ID: <1428999353069-5092235.post@n6.nabble.com>

A lot will be helped by an effective solution to change PDF to workplace
document. For those who have over the casual have to convert PDF to Office
records, installing and getting aPDF Converteris a fast and basic strategy.
Just a few seconds are installed in by this system. It could convert PDF to
PowerPoint, Term, HTML format. Pdf To XML transformation function is going
to be built-into this converter shortly.

When you've done picking your controls and Calibre press Alright may convert
the guide. This could have a short while, with respect Free Pdf To XML the
PDF's measurement. When the conversion seems to be getting too much time,
Show job details can click to learn more to the development.

https://sourceforge.net/projects/pdftoxmlconverter/



--
View this message in context: http://python.6.x6.nabble.com/How-To-Convert-Pdf-Files-To-XML-Spreadsheet-tp5092235.html
Sent from the Python - python-list mailing list archive at Nabble.com.


From rustompmody at gmail.com  Tue Apr 14 06:35:37 2015
From: rustompmody at gmail.com (Rustom Mody)
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 2015 03:35:37 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: find all multiplicands and multipliers for a number
In-Reply-To: <87egnnzb0k.fsf@jester.gateway.sonic.net>
References: <890bd388-f50a-4dec-9ef5-27715427472a@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.209.1428714381.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <55288135$0$12997$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <87egnrb3il.fsf@jester.gateway.sonic.net> <87619387c0.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <90a8e07c-adb3-499f-8971-4ea49f6aea4b@googlegroups.com>
 <87lhhx7r44.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <87zj6czt84.fsf@jester.gateway.sonic.net>
 <mailman.262.1428892580.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <87vbh0zow3.fsf@jester.gateway.sonic.net>
 <mailman.263.1428899720.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <87r3rozjjp.fsf@jester.gateway.sonic.net>
 <552b6e78$0$12985$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <87egnnzb0k.fsf@jester.gateway.sonic.net>
Message-ID: <d4bc0829-d32a-43f1-8934-265c3e98c011@googlegroups.com>

On Tuesday, April 14, 2015 at 8:12:17 AM UTC+5:30, Paul Rubin wrote:
> Steven D'Aprano  writes:
> > http://code.activestate.com/recipes/577821-integer-square-root-function/
> 
> The methods there are more "mathematical" but probably slower than what
> I posted.
> 
> Just for laughs, this prints the first 20 primes using Python 3's 
> "yield from":
> 
>     import itertools
> 
>     def sieve(ps):
>         p = ps.__next__()
>         yield p
>         yield from sieve(a for a in ps if a % p != 0)
> 
>     primes = sieve(itertools.count(2))
>     print(list(itertools.islice(primes,20)))
> 
> It's not that practical above a few hundred primes, probably.

Upto 490 its instantaneous
At 500 recursion stack overflows
[Yeah one can set the recursion limit]


From DLipman~NoSpam~ at Verizon.Net  Tue Apr 14 07:54:58 2015
From: DLipman~NoSpam~ at Verizon.Net (David H. Lipman)
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 2015 07:54:58 -0400
Subject: How To Convert Pdf Files To XML Spreadsheet
In-Reply-To: <mailman.282.1428999457.12925.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.282.1428999457.12925.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <U4KdnRcE2MqWnbDInZ2dnUU7-TudnZ2d@giganews.com>

From: "traciscrouch" <traciscrouch at yahoo.com>

> A lot will be helped by an effective solution to change PDF to workplace

Once again this project was spammed.

All users are encouraged to file a complaint with SourceForge.
abuse at sourceforge.net

They have also been caught spamming Web Forums.


-- 
Dave
Multi-AV Scanning Tool - http://multi-av.thespykiller.co.uk
http://www.pctipp.ch/downloads/dl/35905.asp


From gheskett at wdtv.com  Tue Apr 14 08:06:00 2015
From: gheskett at wdtv.com (Gene Heskett)
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 2015 08:06:00 -0400
Subject: How To Convert Pdf Files To XML Spreadsheet
In-Reply-To: <U4KdnRcE2MqWnbDInZ2dnUU7-TudnZ2d@giganews.com>
References: <mailman.282.1428999457.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <U4KdnRcE2MqWnbDInZ2dnUU7-TudnZ2d@giganews.com>
Message-ID: <201504140806.00958.gheskett@wdtv.com>

On Tuesday 14 April 2015 07:54:58 David H. Lipman wrote:
> From: "traciscrouch" <traciscrouch at yahoo.com>
>
> > A lot will be helped by an effective solution to change PDF to
> > workplace
>
> Once again this project was spammed.
>
> All users are encouraged to file a complaint with SourceForge.
> abuse at sourceforge.net
>
Getting them to accept and act on the complaint was not possible the last 
time I bitched.

Get you projects off of sourceforge, and filter the jerks.

> They have also been caught spamming Web Forums.
>
>
> --
> Dave
> Multi-AV Scanning Tool - http://multi-av.thespykiller.co.uk
> http://www.pctipp.ch/downloads/dl/35905.asp

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page <http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/gene>


From hao741100265 at gmail.com  Tue Apr 14 08:07:49 2015
From: hao741100265 at gmail.com (zhihao chen)
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 2015 20:07:49 +0800
Subject: Is there functions like the luaL_loadfile and luaL_loadbuffer in lua
 source to dump the lua scripts in Python's source?
Message-ID: <CABSu-Uv4MhOFAmb5QcxXmwqbX=xbM4VaYBTf9Yz+TYxaF3kfuA@mail.gmail.com>

HI,I  want to dump the python script when some application(android's app)
use the python engine.they embedding python into its app.
<https://docs.python.org/2/extending/embedding.html>

 I can dump the script from an app which use the lua engine through the
luaL_loadbuffer or luaL_loadfile (just hook this function,and dump the lua
script by the (char *)buffer and size_t )

And,I want to know that:

Is there functions like the luaL_loadfile or luaL_loadbuffer on python's
source to read the python's file,so I cann't through this function to get
the (char *)buffer and size so to get the *.py or *.pyc ?

In other words,which C/C++ function contribute to load the all python's
script or pyc?I want to dump the scripts in that.

Thank you  very much.
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/attachments/20150414/7afa7953/attachment.html>

From davea at davea.name  Tue Apr 14 08:30:40 2015
From: davea at davea.name (Dave Angel)
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 2015 08:30:40 -0400
Subject: Is there functions like the luaL_loadfile and luaL_loadbuffer
 in lua source to dump the lua scripts in Python's source?
In-Reply-To: <CABSu-Uv4MhOFAmb5QcxXmwqbX=xbM4VaYBTf9Yz+TYxaF3kfuA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CABSu-Uv4MhOFAmb5QcxXmwqbX=xbM4VaYBTf9Yz+TYxaF3kfuA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <552D0870.30109@davea.name>

On 04/14/2015 08:07 AM, zhihao chen wrote:
> HI,I  want to dump the python script when some application(android's app)
> use the python engine.they embedding python into its app.
> <https://docs.python.org/2/extending/embedding.html>
>
>   I can dump the script from an app which use the lua engine through the
> luaL_loadbuffer or luaL_loadfile (just hook this function,and dump the lua
> script by the (char *)buffer and size_t )
>
> And,I want to know that:
>
> Is there functions like the luaL_loadfile or luaL_loadbuffer on python's
> source to read the python's file,so I cann't through this function to get
> the (char *)buffer and size so to get the *.py or *.pyc ?
>
> In other words,which C/C++ function contribute to load the all python's
> script or pyc?I want to dump the scripts in that.


I know nothing about lua, but the __file__ attribute on most user 
modules will tell you the filename it's loaded from.  Naturally, that 
assumes it actually came from a file, and a few other things.


-- 
DaveA


From vincent at vincentdavis.net  Tue Apr 14 08:54:12 2015
From: vincent at vincentdavis.net (Vincent Davis)
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 2015 06:54:12 -0600
Subject: using DictReader() with .decode('utf-8', 'ignore')
Message-ID: <CALyJZZUNXnPgD=HEapOMSOaaChff_Fin3smODccNCz=3ZC7H4Q@mail.gmail.com>

I had been reading in a file like so. (python 3)
with open(dfile, 'rb') as f:
    for line in f:

?line
 = line.decode('utf-8', 'ignore').split(',')

?How can I ?do accomplish decode('utf-8', 'ignore') when reading with
 DictReader()


Vincent Davis
720-301-3003
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/attachments/20150414/4de3766c/attachment.html>

From steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info  Tue Apr 14 09:08:46 2015
From: steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 2015 23:08:46 +1000
Subject: Pickle based workflow - looking for advice
References: <mgglho$tpc$1@speranza.aioe.org>
 <mailman.277.1428944943.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <mgguou$nn0$1@speranza.aioe.org>
 <mailman.280.1428984319.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <mgihao$cjc$1@speranza.aioe.org>
Message-ID: <552d115e$0$13010$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

On Tue, 14 Apr 2015 05:58 pm, Fabien wrote:

> On 14.04.2015 06:05, Chris Angelico wrote:
>> Not sure what you mean, here. Any given file will be written by
>> exactly one process? No possible problem. Multiprocessing within one
>> application doesn't change that.
> 
> yes that's what I meant. Thanks!

It's not that simple though. If you require files to be written in precisely
a certain order, then parallel processing requires synchronisation.

Suppose you write A, then B, then C, then D, each in it's own process (or
thread). So the B process has to wait for A to finish, the C process has to
wait for B to finish, and so on. Otherwise you could find yourself with C
reading the data from B before B is finished writing it.


-- 
Steven



From adm2303.2304 at gmail.com  Tue Apr 14 09:13:59 2015
From: adm2303.2304 at gmail.com (Pippo)
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 2015 06:13:59 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: creating a graph out of text
Message-ID: <c76c17e9-9035-49e3-83cd-1fcf745085b4@googlegroups.com>

Hi,

I am not sure why my code doesn't show the graph. It clearly creates the right nodes and edges but it doesn't show them. Any idea?

mport re 
from Tkinter import * 
import tkFileDialog 
import testpattern 
import networkx as nx 
import matplotlib.pyplot as plt 

patternresult =[] 
nodes = {} 
edges = {} 

pattern = ['(#P\[\w*\])', '(#C\[\w*[\s\(\w\,\s\|\)]+\])', 
           '(#ST\[\w*[\s\(\w\,\s\|\)]+\])', '(#A\[\w*[\s\(\w\,\s\|\)]+\])'] 


patternresult = testpattern.patternfinder() 

G=nx.Graph() 


for patres in patternresult: 
    G.add_node(patres) 
    if patres[1] == "P": 
        first_node = patres 
    

for patres in patternresult: 
    
    if patres[1:3] == "ST": 
        G.add_edge(first_node, patres, label="Sub-type") 
    elif patres[1:2] == "C": 
        G.add_edge(first_node, patres, label="Constraint_by") 
    elif patres[1:3] == "A": 
        G.add_edge(first_node, patres, label="Created_by") 
    
#graph = G.edge() 
pos = nx.shell_layout(G) 
#nx.draw(G, pos) 


nx.draw_networkx_nodes(G, pos, nodelist=None, 
                       node_size=300, node_color='r', 
                       node_shape='o', alpha=1.0, 
                       cmap=None, vmin=None, vmax=None, 
                       ax=None, linewidths=None) 
nx.draw_networkx_edges(G, pos, edgelist=None, width=1.0, edge_color='k', 
                       style='solid',alpha=None, edge_cmap=None, 
                       edge_vmin=None, edge_vmax=None,ax=None, arrows=True) 
nx.draw_networkx_labels(G, pos,font_size=10, font_family='sans-serif') 

plt.show() 

#plt.savefig("path.png") 

I think the problem starts from nx.draw....

This is what I want to create graph for:
#C[Health]
#P[Information]
#ST[genetic information]
#C[oral | (recorded in (any form | medium))]
#C[Is created or received by]
#A[health care provider | health plan | public health authority | employer | life insurer | school | university | or health care clearinghouse]
#C[Relates to]
#C[the past, present, or future physical | mental health | condition of an individual]
#C[the provision of health care to an individual]
#C[the past, present, or future payment for the provision of health care to an individual]

This also shows all of the edges that are created...

{'#C[the past, present, or future payment for the provision of health care to an individual]': 1, '#A[health care provider | health plan | public health authority | employer | life insurer | school | university | or health care clearinghouse]': 0, '#C[Relates to]': 1, '#C[the past, present, or future physical | mental health | condition of an individual]': 1, '#C[Is created or received by]': 1, '#C[the provision of health care to an individual]': 1, '#C[Health]': 1, '#C[oral | (recorded in (any form | medium))]': 1, '#ST[genetic information]': 1, '#P[Information]': 8}


From steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info  Tue Apr 14 09:14:18 2015
From: steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 2015 23:14:18 +1000
Subject: Is there functions like the luaL_loadfile and luaL_loadbuffer in
 lua source to dump the lua scripts in Python's source?
References: <mailman.283.1429013277.12925.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <552d12ab$0$12982$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

On Tue, 14 Apr 2015 10:07 pm, zhihao chen wrote:

> HI,I  want to dump the python script when some application(android's app)
> use the python engine.they embedding python into its app.
> <https://docs.python.org/2/extending/embedding.html>


*If* the source code is still available, which it may not be, then
inspect.getsource can find it:

https://docs.python.org/2/library/inspect.html


For the source code to be dumped, it needs to be Python code (not a built-in
or C extension object), the .py file still needs to be available where
Python can see it (not just the .pyc file), and you need to have read
permission.


-- 
Steven



From motoom at xs4all.nl  Tue Apr 14 09:15:32 2015
From: motoom at xs4all.nl (Michiel Overtoom)
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 2015 15:15:32 +0200
Subject: using DictReader() with .decode('utf-8', 'ignore')
In-Reply-To: <CALyJZZUNXnPgD=HEapOMSOaaChff_Fin3smODccNCz=3ZC7H4Q@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CALyJZZUNXnPgD=HEapOMSOaaChff_Fin3smODccNCz=3ZC7H4Q@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <F2C5B5EB-AC4F-4D49-99BA-0D609CA82DA1@xs4all.nl>


> ?How can I ?do accomplish decode('utf-8', 'ignore') when reading with DictReader()

Have you tried using the csv module in conjunction with codecs?
There shouldn't be any need to 'ignore' characters.


    import csv
    import codecs

    rs = csv.DictReader(codecs.open(fn, "rbU", "utf8"))
    for r in rs:
	print(r)

Greetings,

-- 
"You can't actually make computers run faster, you can only make them do less." - RiderOfGiraffes



From steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info  Tue Apr 14 09:23:12 2015
From: steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 2015 23:23:12 +1000
Subject: using DictReader() with .decode('utf-8', 'ignore')
References: <mailman.286.1429016466.12925.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <552d14c0$0$12991$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

On Tue, 14 Apr 2015 10:54 pm, Vincent Davis wrote:

> I had been reading in a file like so. (python 3)
> with open(dfile, 'rb') as f:
>     for line in f:
> 
> line
>  = line.decode('utf-8', 'ignore').split(',')
> 
> How can I ?do accomplish decode('utf-8', 'ignore') when reading with
>  DictReader()


Which DictReader? Do you mean the one in the csv module? I will assume so.

I haven't tried it, but I think something like this will work:


# untested
with open(dfile, 'r', encoding='utf-8', errors='ignore', newline='') as f:
    reader = csv.DictReader(f)
    for row in reader:
        print(row['fieldname'])



-- 
Steven



From steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info  Tue Apr 14 09:30:01 2015
From: steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 2015 23:30:01 +1000
Subject: find all multiplicands and multipliers for a number
References: <890bd388-f50a-4dec-9ef5-27715427472a@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.209.1428714381.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <55288135$0$12997$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <87egnrb3il.fsf@jester.gateway.sonic.net> <87619387c0.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <90a8e07c-adb3-499f-8971-4ea49f6aea4b@googlegroups.com>
 <87lhhx7r44.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net> <87zj6czt84.fsf@jester.gateway.sonic.net>
 <mailman.262.1428892580.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <87vbh0zow3.fsf@jester.gateway.sonic.net>
 <mailman.263.1428899720.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <87r3rozjjp.fsf@jester.gateway.sonic.net>
 <552b6e78$0$12985$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <87egnnzb0k.fsf@jester.gateway.sonic.net>
 <d4bc0829-d32a-43f1-8934-265c3e98c011@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <552d165a$0$13010$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

On Tue, 14 Apr 2015 08:35 pm, Rustom Mody wrote:

> On Tuesday, April 14, 2015 at 8:12:17 AM UTC+5:30, Paul Rubin wrote:
>> Steven D'Aprano  writes:
>> >
http://code.activestate.com/recipes/577821-integer-square-root-function/
>> 
>> The methods there are more "mathematical" but probably slower than what
>> I posted.
>> 
>> Just for laughs, this prints the first 20 primes using Python 3's
>> "yield from":
>> 
>>     import itertools
>> 
>>     def sieve(ps):
>>         p = ps.__next__()
>>         yield p
>>         yield from sieve(a for a in ps if a % p != 0)
>> 
>>     primes = sieve(itertools.count(2))
>>     print(list(itertools.islice(primes,20)))
>> 
>> It's not that practical above a few hundred primes, probably.
> 
> Upto 490 its instantaneous

Not really instantaneous.

py> with Stopwatch():
...     x = list(itertools.islice(sieve(itertools.count(2)), 499))
...
time taken: 0.086171 seconds
py> from pyprimes import primes
py> with Stopwatch():
...     y = list(itertools.islice(primes(), 499))
...
time taken: 0.002802 seconds
py> x == y
True


I have to admit, I expected it to be significantly slower than it actually
is. Just goes to show, I've been using Python for 15+ years and my
intuition as to what is fast and what is slow is still mediocre at best.

Any beginner who thinks they can optimize code without measuring it first is
deluding themselves.


-- 
Steven



From adm2303.2304 at gmail.com  Tue Apr 14 09:34:38 2015
From: adm2303.2304 at gmail.com (Pippo)
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 2015 06:34:38 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Using Dictionary
Message-ID: <e1644379-9f1d-4610-be28-eca9dccc85cb@googlegroups.com>

How can I use dictionary to save the following information?

#C[Health]
#P[Information]
#ST[genetic information]
#C[oral | (recorded in (any form | medium))]
#C[Is created or received by]
#A[health care provider | health plan | public health authority | employer | life insurer | school | university | or health care clearinghouse]
#C[Relates to]
#C[the past, present, or future physical | mental health | condition of an individual]
#C[the provision of health care to an individual]
#C[the past, present, or future payment for the provision of health care to an individual]


From vincent at vincentdavis.net  Tue Apr 14 09:37:53 2015
From: vincent at vincentdavis.net (Vincent Davis)
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 2015 07:37:53 -0600
Subject: using DictReader() with .decode('utf-8', 'ignore')
In-Reply-To: <552d14c0$0$12991$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
References: <mailman.286.1429016466.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <552d14c0$0$12991$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <CALyJZZVvqVKRzWbYsc-OqPPRSQ+B_7+a48F6PXdx=2FrXmQTfQ@mail.gmail.com>

> Which DictReader? Do you mean the one in the csv module? I will assume so.
>
?yes.?


>
> # untested
> with open(dfile, 'r', encoding='utf-8', errors='ignore', newline='') as f:
>     reader = csv.DictReader(f)
>     for row in reader:
>         print(row['fieldname'])
>

What you have seems to work, now I need to go find my strange symbols that
are not ?'utf-8' and see what happens
I was thought, that I had to open with 'rb' to use ?encoding?


Vincent Davis
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/attachments/20150414/8eca4863/attachment.html>

From steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info  Tue Apr 14 09:40:46 2015
From: steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 2015 23:40:46 +1000
Subject: find all multiplicands and multipliers for a number
References: <890bd388-f50a-4dec-9ef5-27715427472a@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.209.1428714381.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <55288135$0$12997$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <87egnrb3il.fsf@jester.gateway.sonic.net> <87619387c0.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <90a8e07c-adb3-499f-8971-4ea49f6aea4b@googlegroups.com>
 <87lhhx7r44.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net> <87zj6czt84.fsf@jester.gateway.sonic.net>
 <mailman.262.1428892580.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <87vbh0zow3.fsf@jester.gateway.sonic.net>
 <mailman.263.1428899720.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <87r3rozjjp.fsf@jester.gateway.sonic.net>
 <552b6e78$0$12985$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <87egnnzb0k.fsf@jester.gateway.sonic.net>
Message-ID: <552d18df$0$13006$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

On Tue, 14 Apr 2015 12:42 pm, Paul Rubin wrote:

> Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info> writes:
>> http://code.activestate.com/recipes/577821-integer-square-root-function/
> 
> The methods there are more "mathematical" but probably slower than what
> I posted.
> 
> Just for laughs, this prints the first 20 primes using Python 3's
> "yield from":
> 
>     import itertools
> 
>     def sieve(ps):
>         p = ps.__next__()
>         yield p
>         yield from sieve(a for a in ps if a % p != 0)
> 
>     primes = sieve(itertools.count(2))
>     print(list(itertools.islice(primes,20)))
> 
> It's not that practical above a few hundred primes, probably.

Oh! I thought that looked familiar... that's a recursive version of David
Turner's implementation of Euler's sieve. It is very popular in Haskell
circles, usually written as:

    primes = sieve [2..]
    sieve (p : xs) = p : sieve [x | x <- xs, x `mod` p > 0]


In her paper http://www.cs.hmc.edu/~oneill/papers/Sieve-JFP.pdf, Melissa
O'Neill calls this the "Sleight on Eratosthenes".

According to O'Neill, it has asymptotic performance of O(N**2/(log N)**2),
which means that it will perform very poorly beyond a few hundred primes.

Here is an iterative version:

def turner():
    nums = itertools.count(2)
    while True:
        prime = next(nums)
        yield prime
        nums = filter(lambda v, p=prime: (v % p) != 0, nums)


On my computer, your recursive version is about 35% slower than the
iterative version over the first 499 primes.



-- 
Steven



From rosuav at gmail.com  Tue Apr 14 09:45:41 2015
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 2015 23:45:41 +1000
Subject: Pickle based workflow - looking for advice
In-Reply-To: <552d115e$0$13010$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
References: <mgglho$tpc$1@speranza.aioe.org>
 <mailman.277.1428944943.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <mgguou$nn0$1@speranza.aioe.org>
 <mailman.280.1428984319.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <mgihao$cjc$1@speranza.aioe.org>
 <552d115e$0$13010$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmo65qnaC7eLx9e=TnMO0GsYFjH6ed7MHmX=cHTBY6xwFg@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Apr 14, 2015 at 11:08 PM, Steven D'Aprano
<steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info> wrote:
> On Tue, 14 Apr 2015 05:58 pm, Fabien wrote:
>
>> On 14.04.2015 06:05, Chris Angelico wrote:
>>> Not sure what you mean, here. Any given file will be written by
>>> exactly one process? No possible problem. Multiprocessing within one
>>> application doesn't change that.
>>
>> yes that's what I meant. Thanks!
>
> It's not that simple though. If you require files to be written in precisely
> a certain order, then parallel processing requires synchronisation.
>
> Suppose you write A, then B, then C, then D, each in it's own process (or
> thread). So the B process has to wait for A to finish, the C process has to
> wait for B to finish, and so on. Otherwise you could find yourself with C
> reading the data from B before B is finished writing it.

Sure, which is a matter of writer/reader conflicts on a single file -
nothing to do with "writing multiple files simultaneously" which was
the question raised.

ChrisA


From steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info  Tue Apr 14 09:48:26 2015
From: steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 2015 23:48:26 +1000
Subject: using DictReader() with .decode('utf-8', 'ignore')
References: <mailman.286.1429016466.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <552d14c0$0$12991$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <mailman.288.1429018696.12925.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <552d1aab$0$12996$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

On Tue, 14 Apr 2015 11:37 pm, Vincent Davis wrote:

>> Which DictReader? Do you mean the one in the csv module? I will assume
>> so.
>>
> yes.
> 
> 
>>
>> # untested
>> with open(dfile, 'r', encoding='utf-8', errors='ignore', newline='') as
>> f:
>>     reader = csv.DictReader(f)
>>     for row in reader:
>>         print(row['fieldname'])
>>
> 
> What you have seems to work, now I need to go find my strange symbols that
> are not ?'utf-8' and see what happens
> I was thought, that I had to open with 'rb' to use ?encoding?

No, in Python 3 the rules are:

'rb' reads in binary mode, returns raw bytes without doing any decoding;

'r' reads in text mode, returns Unicode text, using the codec/encoding
specified. By default, if no encoding is specified, I think UTF-8 is used,
but it may depend on the platform.


If you are getting decoding errors when reading the file, it is possible
that the file isn't actually UTF-8. One test you can do:

with open(dfile, 'rb') as f:
    for line in f:
        try:
            s = line.decode('utf-8', 'strict')
        except UnicodeDecodeError as err:
            print(err)

If you need help deciphering the errors, please copy and paste them here and
we'll see what we can do.



-- 
Steven



From rosuav at gmail.com  Tue Apr 14 09:50:57 2015
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 2015 23:50:57 +1000
Subject: Is there functions like the luaL_loadfile and luaL_loadbuffer in
 lua source to dump the lua scripts in Python's source?
In-Reply-To: <552d12ab$0$12982$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
References: <mailman.283.1429013277.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <552d12ab$0$12982$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmr1Omhk0gAjxEDdp0zyHFxVjzFpBYZ4kgFPbTrk5r2nmw@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Apr 14, 2015 at 11:14 PM, Steven D'Aprano
<steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info> wrote:
> For the source code to be dumped, it needs to be Python code (not a built-in
> or C extension object), the .py file still needs to be available where
> Python can see it (not just the .pyc file), and you need to have read
> permission.

And it has to have not been edited since the program started. I've had
some VERY strange-looking backtraces when I've been in the middle of
editing something, and maybe moved some code around, or just
added/deleted a block higher up in the file...

But if all of that, then yes, Python does help you figure out which
file to go look for. Love that feature.

ChrisA


From steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info  Tue Apr 14 09:52:41 2015
From: steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 2015 23:52:41 +1000
Subject: Using Dictionary
References: <e1644379-9f1d-4610-be28-eca9dccc85cb@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <552d1ba9$0$12996$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

On Tue, 14 Apr 2015 11:34 pm, Pippo wrote:

> How can I use dictionary to save the following information?
> 
> #C[Health]
> #P[Information]
> #ST[genetic information]
> #C[oral | (recorded in (any form | medium))]
> #C[Is created or received by]
> #A[health care provider | health plan | public health authority | employer
> #| life insurer | school | university | or health care clearinghouse]
> #C[Relates to] C[the past, present, or future physical | mental health |
> #condition of an individual] C[the provision of health care to an
> #individual] C[the past, present, or future payment for the provision of
> #health care to an individual]


I don't understand the question. Can you explain what you mean by "save"?
Which part of the information? All of it?

text = """
#C[Health]
#P[Information]
#ST[genetic information]
#C[oral | (recorded in (any form | medium))]
#C[Is created or received by]
#A[health care provider | health plan | public health authority | employer |
life insurer | school | university | or health care clearinghouse]
#C[Relates to]
#C[the past, present, or future physical | mental health | condition of an
individual]
#C[the provision of health care to an individual]
#C[the past, present, or future payment for the provision of health care to
an individual]
"""
adict = {None: text}

Now you have the information inside a dict. Is that what you want? If not,
can you show an example of what result you hope to get at the end.



-- 
Steven



From motoom at xs4all.nl  Tue Apr 14 09:53:26 2015
From: motoom at xs4all.nl (Michiel Overtoom)
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 2015 15:53:26 +0200
Subject: Using Dictionary
In-Reply-To: <e1644379-9f1d-4610-be28-eca9dccc85cb@googlegroups.com>
References: <e1644379-9f1d-4610-be28-eca9dccc85cb@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <3AE83425-3F82-4B1E-8F76-306B5A273FE1@xs4all.nl>


On Apr 14, 2015, at 15:34, Pippo wrote:

> How can I use dictionary to save the following information?

What a curious question. The purpose of a dictionary is not to save information, but to store data as a key -> value mapping:

    telbook = {}
    telbook["jan"] = "0627832873"
    telbook["mary"] = "050-932390"

Or do you mean 'store' when you mention 'save'?

...and to store a bunch of lines you don't need a dictionary either. A list would do:

info = [
    "#C[Health]",
    "#P[Information]",
    "#ST[genetic information]",
    ]

Greetings,

-- 
"You can't actually make computers run faster, you can only make them do less." - RiderOfGiraffes



From steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info  Tue Apr 14 10:14:29 2015
From: steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 2015 00:14:29 +1000
Subject: Pickle based workflow - looking for advice
References: <mgglho$tpc$1@speranza.aioe.org>
 <mailman.277.1428944943.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <mgguou$nn0$1@speranza.aioe.org>
 <mailman.280.1428984319.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <mgihao$cjc$1@speranza.aioe.org>
 <552d115e$0$13010$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <mailman.289.1429019150.12925.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <552d20c6$0$13003$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

On Tue, 14 Apr 2015 11:45 pm, Chris Angelico wrote:

> On Tue, Apr 14, 2015 at 11:08 PM, Steven D'Aprano
> <steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info> wrote:
>> On Tue, 14 Apr 2015 05:58 pm, Fabien wrote:
>>
>>> On 14.04.2015 06:05, Chris Angelico wrote:
>>>> Not sure what you mean, here. Any given file will be written by
>>>> exactly one process? No possible problem. Multiprocessing within one
>>>> application doesn't change that.
>>>
>>> yes that's what I meant. Thanks!
>>
>> It's not that simple though. If you require files to be written in
>> precisely a certain order, then parallel processing requires
>> synchronisation.
>>
>> Suppose you write A, then B, then C, then D, each in it's own process (or
>> thread). So the B process has to wait for A to finish, the C process has
>> to wait for B to finish, and so on. Otherwise you could find yourself
>> with C reading the data from B before B is finished writing it.
> 
> Sure, which is a matter of writer/reader conflicts on a single file -
> nothing to do with "writing multiple files simultaneously" which was
> the question raised.

Fabien: "So I'm trying to crack open an old grenade I found, and I was
wondering if I need a ball-peen hammer or whether a regular hammer will be
okay."

You: "Oh, a regular hammer will be fine."

Me: "Just a minute. You're hitting a grenade with a hammer hard enough to
crack the case. That could be bad. It might explode."

You: "Sure, but the OP never asked about that. He just asked if the kind of
hammer makes a difference."

:-P


Seriously though, the OP did specify in his first post that there is at
least one dependency of the "B depends on A finishing first" kind. I
understood that A writes to a file, B reads that file and writes to a new
file, C reads that file and writes to yet another file, and so on. In which
case, *writing* the files is the least of his problems, it's the exploding
grenade, er, synchronisation problems that will get him.

:-)


Apart from "embarrassingly parallel" problems, thread- and
multiprocessing-based workflows are often trickier than they may seen ahead
of time, and may even be slower than a purely sequential algorithm:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parallel_slowdown
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Embarrassingly_parallel



-- 
Steven



From adm2303.2304 at gmail.com  Tue Apr 14 10:28:19 2015
From: adm2303.2304 at gmail.com (Pippo)
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 2015 07:28:19 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Using Dictionary
In-Reply-To: <mailman.291.1429019675.12925.python-list@python.org>
References: <e1644379-9f1d-4610-be28-eca9dccc85cb@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.291.1429019675.12925.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <c4060f1b-daa2-4430-a11c-421b5c5750d3@googlegroups.com>

On Tuesday, 14 April 2015 09:54:46 UTC-4, Michiel Overtoom  wrote:
> On Apr 14, 2015, at 15:34, Pippo wrote:
> 
> > How can I use dictionary to save the following information?
> 
> What a curious question. The purpose of a dictionary is not to save information, but to store data as a key -> value mapping:
> 
>     telbook = {}
>     telbook["jan"] = "0627832873"
>     telbook["mary"] = "050-932390"
> 
> Or do you mean 'store' when you mention 'save'?
> 
> ...and to store a bunch of lines you don't need a dictionary either. A list would do:
> 
> info = [
>     "#C[Health]",
>     "#P[Information]",
>     "#ST[genetic information]",
>     ]
> 
> Greetings,
> 
> -- 
> "You can't actually make computers run faster, you can only make them do less." - RiderOfGiraffes

Thanks. I wanted to store them. 


From rosuav at gmail.com  Tue Apr 14 10:30:01 2015
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 2015 00:30:01 +1000
Subject: Pickle based workflow - looking for advice
In-Reply-To: <552d20c6$0$13003$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
References: <mgglho$tpc$1@speranza.aioe.org>
 <mailman.277.1428944943.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <mgguou$nn0$1@speranza.aioe.org>
 <mailman.280.1428984319.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <mgihao$cjc$1@speranza.aioe.org>
 <552d115e$0$13010$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <mailman.289.1429019150.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <552d20c6$0$13003$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmpUyGTpj84T5r-7jp07t59rjzgEnZ-W8+hRW_bNMFXU4Q@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Apr 15, 2015 at 12:14 AM, Steven D'Aprano
<steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info> wrote:
> On Tue, 14 Apr 2015 11:45 pm, Chris Angelico wrote:
>
>> On Tue, Apr 14, 2015 at 11:08 PM, Steven D'Aprano
>> <steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info> wrote:
>>> On Tue, 14 Apr 2015 05:58 pm, Fabien wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 14.04.2015 06:05, Chris Angelico wrote:
>>>>> Not sure what you mean, here. Any given file will be written by
>>>>> exactly one process? No possible problem. Multiprocessing within one
>>>>> application doesn't change that.
>>>>
>>>> yes that's what I meant. Thanks!
>>>
>>> It's not that simple though. If you require files to be written in
>>> precisely a certain order, then parallel processing requires
>>> synchronisation.
>>>
>>> Suppose you write A, then B, then C, then D, each in it's own process (or
>>> thread). So the B process has to wait for A to finish, the C process has
>>> to wait for B to finish, and so on. Otherwise you could find yourself
>>> with C reading the data from B before B is finished writing it.
>>
>> Sure, which is a matter of writer/reader conflicts on a single file -
>> nothing to do with "writing multiple files simultaneously" which was
>> the question raised.
>
> Fabien: "So I'm trying to crack open an old grenade I found, and I was
> wondering if I need a ball-peen hammer or whether a regular hammer will be
> okay."
>
> You: "Oh, a regular hammer will be fine."
>
> Me: "Just a minute. You're hitting a grenade with a hammer hard enough to
> crack the case. That could be bad. It might explode."
>
> You: "Sure, but the OP never asked about that. He just asked if the kind of
> hammer makes a difference."
>
> :-P

Heh, fair point. This list is superb at answering the questions people
never even knew to ask.

> Seriously though, the OP did specify in his first post that there is at
> least one dependency of the "B depends on A finishing first" kind. I
> understood that A writes to a file, B reads that file and writes to a new
> file, C reads that file and writes to yet another file, and so on. In which
> case, *writing* the files is the least of his problems, it's the exploding
> grenade, er, synchronisation problems that will get him.
>
> :-)
>
> Apart from "embarrassingly parallel" problems, thread- and
> multiprocessing-based workflows are often trickier than they may seen ahead
> of time, and may even be slower than a purely sequential algorithm:

Yep. The way I read the OP's problem, it's easiest thought of as a
generic request-response system - same as most internet servers.
Basically, you have a piece of code that reacts to an incoming
request, and produces some form of response, then goes back and looks
for the next request. Whether you actually code along those lines or
not, it's a reasonable way to get your head around it.

If you _do_ code it that way, one big benefit is that you effectively
have a multiprocessable state machine; you can fork out to N processes
to take advantage of your CPU cores, or run in a single process for
debugging, and none of the code cares in the slightest.

ChrisA


From vincent at vincentdavis.net  Tue Apr 14 10:51:53 2015
From: vincent at vincentdavis.net (Vincent Davis)
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 2015 08:51:53 -0600
Subject: using DictReader() with .decode('utf-8', 'ignore')
In-Reply-To: <552d1aab$0$12996$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
References: <mailman.286.1429016466.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <552d14c0$0$12991$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <mailman.288.1429018696.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <552d1aab$0$12996$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <CALyJZZV=LrMObG5Ltt7eHz3w8ARTFr1r=eS-opXKAb_7KP6xeA@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Apr 14, 2015 at 7:48 AM, Steven D'Aprano <
steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info> wrote:

> with open(dfile, 'rb') as f:
>     for line in f:
>         try:
>             s = line.decode('utf-8', 'strict')
>         except UnicodeDecodeError as err:
>             print(err)
>
> If you need help deciphering the errors, please copy and paste them here
> and
> we'll see what we can do.


Below are the errors. I knew about these and I think the correct encoding
is windows-1252. I will paste some code and output at the end of this email
that prints the offending column in the line. These are very likely errors,
and so I what to remove them. I am reading this csv into django sqlite3 db.
What is strange to me is that using
?"?
with open(dfile, 'r', encoding='utf-8', errors='ignore', newline='')
?"?
 does not seem to remove these
?, it seems to correctly save them to the db which I don't understand.?
?


'utf-8' codec can't decode byte 0xa6 in position 368: invalid start byte
'utf-8' codec can't decode byte 0xac in position 223: invalid start byte
'utf-8' codec can't decode byte 0xa6 in position 1203: invalid start byte
'utf-8' codec can't decode byte 0xa2 in position 44: invalid start byte
'utf-8' codec can't decode byte 0xac in position 396: invalid start byte

import chardet
with open("DATA/ATSDTA_ATSP600.csv", 'rb') as f:
    for line in f:
        code = chardet.detect(line)
        #if code == {'confidence': 0.5, 'encoding': 'windows-1252'}:
        if code != {'encoding': 'ascii', 'confidence': 1.0}:
            print(code)
        win = line.decode('windows-1252').split(',') #windows-1252
        norm = line.decode('utf-8', 'ignore').split(',')
        ascii = line.decode('ascii', "ignore").split(',')
        ascii2 = line.decode('ISO-8859-1').split(',')

        for w, n, a, a2 in zip(win, norm, ascii, ascii2):
            if w != n:
                print(w
?)
?             print(
n
?)
?
a, a2)
                print(win[0])

?## Output?

{'encoding': 'windows-1252', 'confidence': 0.5}
"?   " "   " "   " "?   "
"040543"
{'encoding': 'windows-1252', 'confidence': 0.5}
"LEASE GREGPRU D ?ETERSPM                 " "LEASE GREGPRU D ETERSPM
              " "LEASE GREGPRU D ETERSPM                 " "LEASE
GREGPRU D ?ETERSPM                 "
"979643"
{'encoding': 'windows-1252', 'confidence': 0.5}
"?   " "   " "   " "?   "
"986979"
{'encoding': 'windows-1252', 'confidence': 0.5}
"WELLS FARGO &? COMPANY                   " "WELLS FARGO & COMPANY
              " "WELLS FARGO & COMPANY                   " "WELLS
FARGO &? COMPANY                   "
"994946"
{'encoding': 'windows-1252', 'confidence': 0.5}
OSSOSSO??O         " OSSOSSOO         " OSSOSSOO         " OSSOSSO??O         "
"996535"



Vincent Davis
720-301-3003
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/attachments/20150414/47ec8b14/attachment.html>

From mal at europython.eu  Tue Apr 14 15:16:59 2015
From: mal at europython.eu (M.-A. Lemburg)
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 2015 21:16:59 +0200
Subject: EuroPython 2015: Call for Proposals has been extended
Message-ID: <552D67AB.9060806@europython.eu>

Since we had Easter holidays and a very busy PyCon US 2015 during the
Call for Proposal (CFP) period, the Program work group (WG) has
decided to extend the date for the talk submission deadline until:

       Thursday, 2015-04-28, 23:59:59 CEST

Please submit your proposals through the EuroPython website:

       https://ep2015.europython.eu/en/call-for-proposals/


Need some inspiration ?
-----------------------

We are especially interested in the following topics in the context of
using and developing for and with Python:

 * Core Python
 * Alternative Python implementations: e.g. Jython, IronPython, PyPy,
   Stackless, etc.
 * Python libraries and extensions
 * Python 2 to 3 migration
 * Databases
 * Documentation
 * GUI Programming
 * Game Programming
 * Network Programming
 * Open Source Python projects
 * Packaging Issues
 * Programming Tools
 * Project Best Practices
 * Embedding and Extending
 * Education, Science and Math
 * Web-based Systems

Have a look at the talks presented at previous conferences to get an
idea of what we?re looking for:

 * EuroPython 2014 Talks - https://ep2014.europython.eu/en/schedule/schedule/
 * EuroPython 2013 Talks - https://ep2013.europython.eu/p3/schedule/ep2013/
 * EuroPython 2012 Talks - https://ep2013.europython.eu/p3/schedule/ep2012/
 * EuroPython Talk Videos - http://europython.tv/

This year at EuroPython we will have plenty of presentation slots
available for everyone:

 * Talks: 170 slots available (80x 30min, 85x 45min, 5x 60min)
 * Trainings: 20 slots
 * Posters: 25 slots
 * Help desks: 5 slots

More details are available on our CFP page:

    https://ep2015.europython.eu/en/call-for-proposals/


Now is your chance to become a speaker at EuroPython !
------------------------------------------------------

EuroPython is the largest Python conference in Europe, providing you
with an ideal platform to let the Python community know about your
ideas, projects and thoughts.

 * Don?t be shy and submit your talks. We?d especially like to
   encourage first time speakers to submit their talks.

 * If you?ve already held a talk at another Python conference,
   perfect: send in your talk submission.

 * If your talk did not get accepted at one of the other Python
   conferences: try again at EuroPython.

See you in Bilbao !

Enjoy,
--
EuroPython 2015 Team
http://ep2015.europython.eu/
http://www.europython-society.org/


From accessnewbie at gmail.com  Tue Apr 14 18:20:08 2015
From: accessnewbie at gmail.com (accessnewbie at gmail.com)
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 2015 15:20:08 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Working with Access tables and python scripts
Message-ID: <66ff6825-ab3b-4591-b80d-eff9d5462518@googlegroups.com>

I have an existing extensive python script that I would like to modify slightly to run a different variation on a process.

I also have all the variables I need to run this script (about 20 in total)stored in an Access 2010 64 bit database. 

Is it possible to create a button on an Access form (or other GUI) to pass the information that is stored in the various fields in the database to the python script? Not all the values are in a single table. A query joining related tables would need to be done. Ideally I would like to execute the script from the Access data entry form immediately after entering the required data into the database.

If so, how might I go about accomplishing this? I am at a loss as to where to even start such a task.

Any and all help greatly appreciated.


From p_s_d_a_s_i_l_v_a_ns at netcabo.pt  Tue Apr 14 18:41:56 2015
From: p_s_d_a_s_i_l_v_a_ns at netcabo.pt (Paulo da Silva)
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 2015 23:41:56 +0100
Subject: A question about numpy
Message-ID: <mgk53k$pon$1@speranza.aioe.org>

I am new to numpy ...

Supposing I have 2 vectors v1 and v2 and a value (constant) k.
I want to build a vector r with all values of v1 greater than k and the
others from v2.

I found 2 ways, but not sure if they are the best solution:

1.
r1=v1.copy()
r2=v2.copy()
r1[r1<k]=0
r2[r2>=k]=0
r=r1+r2

2.
r=v1*(v1>=k)+v2*(v2<k)

Are there any better sols.?

Thanks for help/comments.


From hey.ho.fredl at gmail.com  Tue Apr 14 18:46:10 2015
From: hey.ho.fredl at gmail.com (hey.ho.fredl at gmail.com)
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 2015 15:46:10 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Working with Access tables and python scripts
In-Reply-To: <66ff6825-ab3b-4591-b80d-eff9d5462518@googlegroups.com>
References: <66ff6825-ab3b-4591-b80d-eff9d5462518@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <7cb57c89-4abc-4ac0-981a-784d810fe6e3@googlegroups.com>

I don't know how to start a Python script from Access, but you could definitely do it the other way around, reading the Access database from Python.

An example:
---
import pyodbc
ODBC_DRIVER = '{Microsoft Access Driver (*.mdb)}'

connstr = 'DRIVER={0};DBQ={1}'.format(ODBC_DRIVER, 'filename.mdb')
conn = pyodbc.connect(connstr)

cur = conn.cursor()
cur.execute('SELECT * FROM table')

---



From rgaddi at technologyhighland.invalid  Tue Apr 14 18:49:31 2015
From: rgaddi at technologyhighland.invalid (Rob Gaddi)
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 2015 22:49:31 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: A question about numpy
References: <mgk53k$pon$1@speranza.aioe.org>
Message-ID: <mgk5hr$n1r$1@dont-email.me>

On Tue, 14 Apr 2015 23:41:56 +0100, Paulo da Silva wrote:

> Supposing I have 2 vectors v1 and v2 and a value (constant) k.
> I want to build a vector r with all values of v1 greater than k and the
> others from v2.
> 

You're looking for numpy.where() .

-- 
Rob Gaddi, Highland Technology -- www.highlandtechnology.com
Email address domain is currently out of order.  See above to fix.


From p_s_d_a_s_i_l_v_a_ns at netcabo.pt  Tue Apr 14 20:03:35 2015
From: p_s_d_a_s_i_l_v_a_ns at netcabo.pt (Paulo da Silva)
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 2015 01:03:35 +0100
Subject: A question about numpy
References: <mgk53k$pon$1@speranza.aioe.org> <mgk5hr$n1r$1@dont-email.me>
Message-ID: <mgk9sn$301$1@speranza.aioe.org>

On 14-04-2015 23:49, Rob Gaddi wrote:
> On Tue, 14 Apr 2015 23:41:56 +0100, Paulo da Silva wrote:
> 
>> Supposing I have 2 vectors v1 and v2 and a value (constant) k.
>> I want to build a vector r with all values of v1 greater than k and the
>> others from v2.
>>
> 
> You're looking for numpy.where() .
> 
That's it! Thank you.



From emile at fenx.com  Tue Apr 14 20:47:38 2015
From: emile at fenx.com (Emile van Sebille)
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 2015 17:47:38 -0700
Subject: Working with Access tables and python scripts
In-Reply-To: <66ff6825-ab3b-4591-b80d-eff9d5462518@googlegroups.com>
References: <66ff6825-ab3b-4591-b80d-eff9d5462518@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <mgkcgi$2lu$1@ger.gmane.org>

On 4/14/2015 3:20 PM, accessnewbie at gmail.com wrote:

 > I have an existing extensive python script that I would like
 > to modify slightly to run a different variation on a process.
 >
 > I also have all the variables I need to run this script (about
 > 20 in total)stored in an Access 2010 64 bit database.
 >
 > Is it possible to create a button on an Access form (or other GUI)
 > to pass the information that is stored in the various fields in the
 > database to the python script? Not all the values are in a single
 > table.
 > A query joining related tables would need to be done. Ideally I would
 > like to execute the script from the Access data entry form
 > immediately after entering the required data into the database.

Yes -- I did so in excel using VB some 15 years ago.  Download and 
install Mark Hammond's win32 extensions.  I don't off the top of my head 
remember the details, but if no one else chimes in I could probably
dig out that code.

Emile






From breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk  Tue Apr 14 22:23:58 2015
From: breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk (Mark Lawrence)
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 2015 03:23:58 +0100
Subject: Working with Access tables and python scripts
In-Reply-To: <mgkcgi$2lu$1@ger.gmane.org>
References: <66ff6825-ab3b-4591-b80d-eff9d5462518@googlegroups.com>
 <mgkcgi$2lu$1@ger.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <mgki42$ou1$1@ger.gmane.org>

On 15/04/2015 01:47, Emile van Sebille wrote:
> On 4/14/2015 3:20 PM, accessnewbie at gmail.com wrote:
>
>  > I have an existing extensive python script that I would like
>  > to modify slightly to run a different variation on a process.
>  >
>  > I also have all the variables I need to run this script (about
>  > 20 in total)stored in an Access 2010 64 bit database.
>  >
>  > Is it possible to create a button on an Access form (or other GUI)
>  > to pass the information that is stored in the various fields in the
>  > database to the python script? Not all the values are in a single
>  > table.
>  > A query joining related tables would need to be done. Ideally I would
>  > like to execute the script from the Access data entry form
>  > immediately after entering the required data into the database.
>
> Yes -- I did so in excel using VB some 15 years ago.  Download and
> install Mark Hammond's win32 extensions.  I don't off the top of my head
> remember the details, but if no one else chimes in I could probably
> dig out that code.
>
> Emile

People can always ask here 
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-win32 also available as 
gmane.comp.python.windows

-- 
My fellow Pythonistas, ask not what our language can do for you, ask
what you can do for our language.

Mark Lawrence



From no.email at nospam.invalid  Tue Apr 14 22:37:19 2015
From: no.email at nospam.invalid (Paul Rubin)
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 2015 19:37:19 -0700
Subject: find all multiplicands and multipliers for a number
References: <890bd388-f50a-4dec-9ef5-27715427472a@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.209.1428714381.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <55288135$0$12997$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <87egnrb3il.fsf@jester.gateway.sonic.net>
 <87619387c0.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <90a8e07c-adb3-499f-8971-4ea49f6aea4b@googlegroups.com>
 <87lhhx7r44.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <87zj6czt84.fsf@jester.gateway.sonic.net>
 <mailman.262.1428892580.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <87vbh0zow3.fsf@jester.gateway.sonic.net>
 <mailman.263.1428899720.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <87r3rozjjp.fsf@jester.gateway.sonic.net>
 <552b6e78$0$12985$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <87egnnzb0k.fsf@jester.gateway.sonic.net>
 <552d18df$0$13006$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <871tjmyv4w.fsf@jester.gateway.sonic.net>

Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info> writes:
>     primes = sieve [2..]
>     sieve (p : xs) = p : sieve [x | x <- xs, x `mod` p > 0]
> In her paper http://www.cs.hmc.edu/~oneill/papers/Sieve-JFP.pdf, Melissa
> O'Neill calls this the "Sleight on Eratosthenes".

Oh cool, I wrote very similar Haskell code and converted it to Python.
I probably saw it before though, so it looks like a case of
not-exactly-independent re-invention.

> def turner():
>     nums = itertools.count(2)
>     while True:
>         prime = next(nums)
>         yield prime
>         nums = filter(lambda v, p=prime: (v % p) != 0, nums)

This is nice, though it will still hit the nesting limit about equally
soon, because of the nested filters.  I like the faster versions in the
O'Neill paper.

> On my computer, your recursive version is about 35% slower than the
> iterative version over the first 499 primes.

Interesting.  I wonder why it's slower.

A Hamming (or "5-smooth") number is a number with no prime factors
larger than 5.  So 20 (= 2*2*5) is a Hamming number but 21 (= 3*7) is
not.  The first few of them are:
  [1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 8, 9, 10, 12, 15, 16, 18, 20, 24]

Here's an ugly computation of the millionth Hamming number, converted
from Haskell code that you've probably seen.  I'd be interested in
seeing a cleaner implementation.  

================================================================
import itertools, time

def merge(a0,b0):
    def advance(m): m[0] = next(m[1])
    a = [next(a0), a0]
    b = [next(b0), b0]
    while True:
        if a[0] == b[0]:
            yield a[0]
            advance(a)
            advance(b)
        elif a[0] < b[0]:
            yield a[0]
            advance(a)
        else:
            yield b[0]
            advance(b)

def hamming(n):
    hh = [1]
    def hmap(k):
        for i in itertools.count():
            yield k * hh[i]

    m = merge(hmap(2),merge(hmap(3), hmap(5)))
    for i in xrange(n):
        hh.append(next(m))
    return hh[-1]

# this takes about 2.4 seconds on my i5 laptop with python 2.7,
# about 2.8 sec with python 3.3.2

t0=time.time()
print (hamming(10**6-1))
print (time.time()-t0)
================================================================


From me at haseeb.co  Wed Apr 15 05:10:32 2015
From: me at haseeb.co (me at haseeb.co)
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 2015 02:10:32 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: error with Firefox Binary 'The browser appears to have exited'
In-Reply-To: <925b3953-6273-4e6b-8e64-de093a20fc34@googlegroups.com>
References: <925b3953-6273-4e6b-8e64-de093a20fc34@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <e5953d24-81c0-4180-9a52-739f0765d638@googlegroups.com>

Have you tried specifying the location of Firefox binary explicitly ?

from selenium.webdriver.firefox.firefox_binary import FirefoxBinary
binary = FirefoxBinary('C:\Users\aplusk\Documents\FirefoxPortable\App\Firefox\\firefox.exe')
browser = webdriver.Firefox(firefox_binary=binary)


From fabiofz at gmail.com  Wed Apr 15 08:15:43 2015
From: fabiofz at gmail.com (Fabio Zadrozny)
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 2015 09:15:43 -0300
Subject: PyDev 4.0.0 Released
Message-ID: <CANXBEFpAQJa7aX1r+Qr9-ZJszWBDihsivhn4ko-8JiskK1ZieA@mail.gmail.com>

What is PyDev?
---------------------------

PyDev is an open-source Python IDE on top of Eclipse for Python,
Jython and IronPython development.

It comes with goodies such as code completion, syntax highlighting,
syntax analysis, code analysis, refactor, debug, interactive console,
etc.

Details on PyDev: http://pydev.org
Details on its development: http://pydev.blogspot.com


What is LiClipse?
---------------------------

LiClipse is a PyDev standalone with goodies such as support for
Multiple cursors, theming and a number of other languages such as
Django Templates, Jinja2, Kivy Language, Mako Templates, Html,
Javascript, etc.

It's also a commercial counterpart which helps supporting the
development of PyDev.

Details on LiClipse: http://www.liclipse.com/


Release Highlights:
-------------------------------

* **Code Completion**

	* PyDev can now code-complete unpacking compound types (such as
list(str), tuple(MyClass), dict(int:str), etc).
	* Code-completion now has a maximum amount of time to complete (which
may be changed in the code-completion preferences).

* **Editor**

	* Bytes and Unicode literals now have different colors (note: by
default the Unicode kept the same color used for the old 'Strings'
configuration).
	* Mark occurrences is now also provided on some statements (such as
return, continue, etc).

* **PyVmMonitor**

	* The PyVmMonitor integration was improved on finding the PyVmMonitor
executable on Linux and Mac.

* **Others**

	* It's now possible to bind custom keybindings to help in passing
custom commands to the interactive console (see: PyDev > Interactive
Console > User Commands)
	* The bundled autopep8.py and pep8.py were upgraded.
	* Search for references (Ctrl+Shift+G) is faster (all processors
available are used for the initial search).
	* Search page now has a 'whole word' option.
	* Fixed PyDev-Mylyn integration in the PyDev Package Explorer to work
with the latest Mylyn.
	* Fixed issue doing code-completion for elements of a list (lst[0].)
in the console. (PyDev-531)
	* py.test xfailed tests are no longer marked as 'Failed' in PyUnit
view (PyDev-506)


Cheers,

--
Fabio Zadrozny
------------------------------------------------------
Software Developer

LiClipsehttp://www.liclipse.com

PyDev - Python Development Environment for
Eclipsehttp://pydev.orghttp://pydev.blogspot.com

PyVmMonitor - Python Profilerhttp://www.pyvmmonitor.com/
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/attachments/20150415/c7c45035/attachment.html>

From yacinechaouche at yahoo.com  Wed Apr 15 08:30:21 2015
From: yacinechaouche at yahoo.com (Yassine Chaouche)
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 2015 05:30:21 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: bottle.py app doesn't timeout properly ?
In-Reply-To: <3910847f-decf-497d-bb99-cc3a5f19eb4a@googlegroups.com>
References: <3910847f-decf-497d-bb99-cc3a5f19eb4a@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <661b3e2e-f0c7-4ab8-bb95-af026b72e6ab@googlegroups.com>

Here's a traceback I generated by catching a SIGINT and printing an exception : 

Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "/usr/lib/python2.7/SocketServer.py", line 295, in _handle_request_noblock
    self.process_request(request, client_address)
  File "/usr/lib/python2.7/SocketServer.py", line 321, in process_request
    self.finish_request(request, client_address)
  File "/usr/lib/python2.7/SocketServer.py", line 334, in finish_request
    self.RequestHandlerClass(request, client_address, self)
  File "/usr/lib/python2.7/SocketServer.py", line 649, in __init__
    self.handle()
  File "/usr/lib/python2.7/wsgiref/simple_server.py", line 116, in handle
    self.raw_requestline = self.rfile.readline()
  File "/usr/lib/python2.7/socket.py", line 447, in readline
    data = self._sock.recv(self._rbufsize)
KeyboardInterrupt


Last line shows where the app was when the SIGINT happened, same socket.py's readline function.


From nagarajuusstaffing at gmail.com  Wed Apr 15 09:51:30 2015
From: nagarajuusstaffing at gmail.com (nagaraju thoudoju)
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 2015 06:51:30 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Immediate Hire: ETL Developers - Boise, Idaho
Message-ID: <6e644108-9a92-40dc-bb7d-d2858f43b863@googlegroups.com>

Hi,
 
Hope you are doing well,
This is Raj from International Systems Technologies.

Please find the requirement below and let me know you interest on this position on  nagaraju at intsystech.com or feel free to call me on D:908-333-3540 

Requirement:
 
Role: ETL Developers
Location: Boise, Idaho

Job Description:

. Should have strong knowledge in SQL Server database including SQL Queries, joins, functions, trigger, store procedure. 
. Should have strong knowledge of ETL concept. 
. Should have knowledge of SSIS Including Data  flow component, control flow component, SSIS Logging, SSIS Configuration, SSIS Security. SSIS Error handling. 
. Should have knowledge of SSIS package deployment. 
. Experience in Product Life Cycle Management development projects. 
. Experience in agile, sprint development projects. 
. Should have knowledge in data warehouse concept. 
. Should have basic knowledge in scripting language like C# or VB.
 
Thanks & Best Regards....?
Raju
International Systems Technologies Inc.
10 Corporate place south.| Suite 203  |
Piscataway, NJ 08854  |
D:908-333-3540 |Fax:732-348-9533|
E-mail: nagaraju at intsystech.com   |
URL: www.intsystech.com
 


From Gil at GilDawson.com  Wed Apr 15 11:47:47 2015
From: Gil at GilDawson.com (Gil Dawson)
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 2015 08:47:47 -0700
Subject: Searching the archives
Message-ID: <FCBD0BB4-8CD2-4259-8344-A51BC20314EF@GilDawson.com>

This is my first message to this list.  I just signed on.

How do you search the archives?

--Gil


From ian.g.kelly at gmail.com  Wed Apr 15 11:59:51 2015
From: ian.g.kelly at gmail.com (Ian Kelly)
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 2015 09:59:51 -0600
Subject: find all multiplicands and multipliers for a number
In-Reply-To: <871tjmyv4w.fsf@jester.gateway.sonic.net>
References: <890bd388-f50a-4dec-9ef5-27715427472a@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.209.1428714381.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <55288135$0$12997$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <87egnrb3il.fsf@jester.gateway.sonic.net> <87619387c0.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <90a8e07c-adb3-499f-8971-4ea49f6aea4b@googlegroups.com>
 <87lhhx7r44.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <87zj6czt84.fsf@jester.gateway.sonic.net>
 <mailman.262.1428892580.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <87vbh0zow3.fsf@jester.gateway.sonic.net>
 <mailman.263.1428899720.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <87r3rozjjp.fsf@jester.gateway.sonic.net>
 <552b6e78$0$12985$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <87egnnzb0k.fsf@jester.gateway.sonic.net>
 <552d18df$0$13006$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <871tjmyv4w.fsf@jester.gateway.sonic.net>
Message-ID: <CALwzidkvu8vuQkN3=WhyRNU3q3-DhuDPU6cvYPkcvO70hF55FQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Apr 14, 2015 at 8:37 PM, Paul Rubin <no.email at nospam.invalid> wrote:
> Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info> writes:
>> def turner():
>>     nums = itertools.count(2)
>>     while True:
>>         prime = next(nums)
>>         yield prime
>>         nums = filter(lambda v, p=prime: (v % p) != 0, nums)
>
> This is nice, though it will still hit the nesting limit about equally
> soon, because of the nested filters.  I like the faster versions in the
> O'Neill paper.

Nope. You do end up with a lot of nested filter objects, but there's
no recursion in the Python code, which means that you're not piling up
frame objects, and you'll never hit the interpreter's recursion limit.
You might eventually get a seg fault when the C stack space runs out,
however.


From no.email at nospam.invalid  Wed Apr 15 12:21:14 2015
From: no.email at nospam.invalid (Paul Rubin)
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 2015 09:21:14 -0700
Subject: find all multiplicands and multipliers for a number
References: <890bd388-f50a-4dec-9ef5-27715427472a@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.209.1428714381.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <55288135$0$12997$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <87egnrb3il.fsf@jester.gateway.sonic.net>
 <87619387c0.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <90a8e07c-adb3-499f-8971-4ea49f6aea4b@googlegroups.com>
 <87lhhx7r44.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <87zj6czt84.fsf@jester.gateway.sonic.net>
 <mailman.262.1428892580.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <87vbh0zow3.fsf@jester.gateway.sonic.net>
 <mailman.263.1428899720.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <87r3rozjjp.fsf@jester.gateway.sonic.net>
 <552b6e78$0$12985$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <87egnnzb0k.fsf@jester.gateway.sonic.net>
 <552d18df$0$13006$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <871tjmyv4w.fsf@jester.gateway.sonic.net>
 <mailman.311.1429113657.12925.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <87wq1dxszp.fsf@jester.gateway.sonic.net>

Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly at gmail.com> writes:
> Nope. You do end up with a lot of nested filter objects, but there's
> no recursion in the Python code, which means that you're not piling up
> frame objects, and you'll never hit the interpreter's recursion limit.

I think you do get frame objects.  A quick experiment:

 def d(fuel):
	f = lambda x:x
	for i in range(fuel): f = lambda x,g=f: 1+g(x)
	return f

    >>> d(3)
    <function <lambda> at 0x1a3b9b0>
    >>> d(100)(0)
    100
    >>> d(1000)(0)

    Traceback (most recent call last):
      File "<pyshell#24>", line 1, in <module>
        d(1000)(0)
      File "<pyshell#20>", line 3, in <lambda>
        for i in range(fuel): f = lambda x,g=f: 1+g(x)
      File "<pyshell#20>", line 3, in <lambda>
      [ 1000's of lines snipped ]
    RuntimeError: maximum recursion depth exceeded
    >>> 

This happens in both 2.7 and 3.3.4.


From chol at posteo.org  Wed Apr 15 12:22:51 2015
From: chol at posteo.org (chol)
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 2015 18:22:51 +0200
Subject: Python-MVC front/backend 4 firewall OPNsense -> alternative to old
 m0n0wall/pfSense PHP ?
Message-ID: <552E905B.70502@posteo.org>

Hello dear community, dear Python developers!

Would this be a reasonable and appealing project?  A MVC (backend, frontend) of OPNsense (opnsense.org) -> to proof
the security of Python (3. Gen)? The OPNsense backend was recently
rewritten in Python already.

Manuel Kasper wrote a PHP GUI/backend around pf Packetfilter with m0n0wall, pfSense forked and did stick to PHP, now the new 02-2015 fork OPNsense did the same.

Alan Jude from BSD-Now suggested indirectly  - why not to rewrite it in Python. Because of architecture and security reasons, I guess. Maybe it is an opportunity right now?

What do you think? - Cheers, Chol.




From ckaynor at zindagigames.com  Wed Apr 15 12:46:15 2015
From: ckaynor at zindagigames.com (Chris Kaynor)
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 2015 09:46:15 -0700
Subject: find all multiplicands and multipliers for a number
In-Reply-To: <87wq1dxszp.fsf@jester.gateway.sonic.net>
References: <890bd388-f50a-4dec-9ef5-27715427472a@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.209.1428714381.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <55288135$0$12997$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <87egnrb3il.fsf@jester.gateway.sonic.net> <87619387c0.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <90a8e07c-adb3-499f-8971-4ea49f6aea4b@googlegroups.com>
 <87lhhx7r44.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <87zj6czt84.fsf@jester.gateway.sonic.net>
 <mailman.262.1428892580.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <87vbh0zow3.fsf@jester.gateway.sonic.net>
 <mailman.263.1428899720.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <87r3rozjjp.fsf@jester.gateway.sonic.net>
 <552b6e78$0$12985$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <87egnnzb0k.fsf@jester.gateway.sonic.net>
 <552d18df$0$13006$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <871tjmyv4w.fsf@jester.gateway.sonic.net>
 <mailman.311.1429113657.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <87wq1dxszp.fsf@jester.gateway.sonic.net>
Message-ID: <CALvWhxuM5_TWMRXpdhtQ6o71CZhEO2BJwbXhHTSgrS2cksjDMQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Apr 15, 2015 at 9:21 AM, Paul Rubin <no.email at nospam.invalid> wrote:
> Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly at gmail.com> writes:
>> Nope. You do end up with a lot of nested filter objects, but there's
>> no recursion in the Python code, which means that you're not piling up
>> frame objects, and you'll never hit the interpreter's recursion limit.
>
> I think you do get frame objects.  A quick experiment:
>
>  def d(fuel):
>         f = lambda x:x
>         for i in range(fuel): f = lambda x,g=f: 1+g(x)
>         return f
>
>     >>> d(3)
>     <function <lambda> at 0x1a3b9b0>
>     >>> d(100)(0)
>     100
>     >>> d(1000)(0)
>
>     Traceback (most recent call last):
>       File "<pyshell#24>", line 1, in <module>
>         d(1000)(0)
>       File "<pyshell#20>", line 3, in <lambda>
>         for i in range(fuel): f = lambda x,g=f: 1+g(x)
>       File "<pyshell#20>", line 3, in <lambda>
>       [ 1000's of lines snipped ]
>     RuntimeError: maximum recursion depth exceeded
>     >>>

That code is substantially different that the code that Steven
D'Aprano posted: Steven's uses filter to call the lambdas, while your
calls the lambdas from another lambda. Basically, yours has direct
recursion in the Python code, while Steven's does not. The only
recursion in Steven's code is inside of the filter built-in function,
very nicely masked :).

Running Steven's code for a while, on a 32-bit install of Python 3.4.2
on Win64, printing the results, eventually produces:
[A whole pile of primes snipped]
784489
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in <module>
  File "<stdin>", line 4, in turner
  File "<stdin>", line 6, in <lambda>
MemoryError: Stack overflow


From no.email at nospam.invalid  Wed Apr 15 13:37:44 2015
From: no.email at nospam.invalid (Paul Rubin)
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 2015 10:37:44 -0700
Subject: find all multiplicands and multipliers for a number
References: <890bd388-f50a-4dec-9ef5-27715427472a@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.209.1428714381.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <55288135$0$12997$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <87egnrb3il.fsf@jester.gateway.sonic.net>
 <87619387c0.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <90a8e07c-adb3-499f-8971-4ea49f6aea4b@googlegroups.com>
 <87lhhx7r44.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <87zj6czt84.fsf@jester.gateway.sonic.net>
 <mailman.262.1428892580.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <87vbh0zow3.fsf@jester.gateway.sonic.net>
 <mailman.263.1428899720.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <87r3rozjjp.fsf@jester.gateway.sonic.net>
 <552b6e78$0$12985$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <87egnnzb0k.fsf@jester.gateway.sonic.net>
 <552d18df$0$13006$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <871tjmyv4w.fsf@jester.gateway.sonic.net>
 <mailman.311.1429113657.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <87wq1dxszp.fsf@jester.gateway.sonic.net>
 <mailman.313.1429116402.12925.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <87sic1xpg7.fsf@jester.gateway.sonic.net>

Chris Kaynor <ckaynor at zindagigames.com> writes:
> That code is substantially different that the code that Steven
> D'Aprano posted: Steven's uses filter to call the lambdas, while your
> calls the lambdas from another lambda.

I wouldn't have thought it made a difference, but apparently it does.
Thanks.

> Basically, yours has direct recursion in the Python code, while
> Steven's does not. 

I would have said: both have deeply nested function calls but no
recursion per se.

I did another test with Python 2.7.5 under Idle:

    from itertools import ifilter
    def f(xs): return ifilter(lambda x:True, xs)

    def t(n):
        xs = range(10)
        for i in xrange(n): xs = f(xs)
        print list(xs)

and it seemed to survive up to around 130k nested filters, with a
slightly non-deterministic limit: 130900 worked some of the time and
crashed some of the time.  Interesting.


From Gil at GilDawson.com  Wed Apr 15 14:47:29 2015
From: Gil at GilDawson.com (Gil Dawson)
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 2015 11:47:29 -0700
Subject: Searching the archives
In-Reply-To: <87sic1xpg7.fsf@jester.gateway.sonic.net>
References: <890bd388-f50a-4dec-9ef5-27715427472a@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.209.1428714381.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <55288135$0$12997$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <87egnrb3il.fsf@jester.gateway.sonic.net> <87619387c0.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <90a8e07c-adb3-499f-8971-4ea49f6aea4b@googlegroups.com>
 <87lhhx7r44.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net> <87zj6czt84.fsf@jester.gateway.sonic.net>
 <mailman.262.1428892580.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <87vbh0zow3.fsf@jester.gateway.sonic.net>
 <mailman.263.1428899720.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <87r3rozjjp.fsf@jester.gateway.sonic.net>
 <552b6e78$0$12985$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <87egnnzb0k.fsf@jester.gateway.sonic.net>
 <552d18df$0$13006$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <871tjmyv4w.fsf@jester.gateway.sonic.net>
 <mailman.311.1429113657.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <87wq1dxszp.fsf@jester.gateway.sonic.net>
 <mailman.313.1429116402.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <87sic1xpg7.fsf@jester.gateway.sonic.net>
Message-ID: <815276EC-5311-40B7-92C2-41F67EB9E251@GilDawson.com>

Hi--

I'm new here.  How do you search the archives?

--Gil


From Gil at GilDawson.com  Wed Apr 15 15:09:06 2015
From: Gil at GilDawson.com (Gil Dawson)
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 2015 12:09:06 -0700
Subject: Installing Python
In-Reply-To: <87sic1xpg7.fsf@jester.gateway.sonic.net>
References: <890bd388-f50a-4dec-9ef5-27715427472a@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.209.1428714381.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <55288135$0$12997$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <87egnrb3il.fsf@jester.gateway.sonic.net> <87619387c0.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <90a8e07c-adb3-499f-8971-4ea49f6aea4b@googlegroups.com>
 <87lhhx7r44.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net> <87zj6czt84.fsf@jester.gateway.sonic.net>
 <mailman.262.1428892580.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <87vbh0zow3.fsf@jester.gateway.sonic.net>
 <mailman.263.1428899720.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <87r3rozjjp.fsf@jester.gateway.sonic.net>
 <552b6e78$0$12985$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <87egnnzb0k.fsf@jester.gateway.sonic.net>
 <552d18df$0$13006$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <871tjmyv4w.fsf@jester.gateway.sonic.net>
 <mailman.311.1429113657.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <87wq1dxszp.fsf@jester.gateway.sonic.net>
 <mailman.313.1429116402.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <87sic1xpg7.fsf@jester.gateway.sonic.net>
Message-ID: <4048AD0C-A403-4141-AB8B-5884A008496A@GilDawson.com>

Hi--

I'm on MacOS 10.6.8, learning to use Amazon Web Services' Simple Storage Service's Command Line Interface (AWS S3 CLI).

They say in their documentation that their CLI needs Python version 2.7 or 3.4.  I checked in terminal:

$ python --version
Python 2.6.1

So I ran the python-2.7.9-macosx10.6.pkg downloaded from https://www.python.org/downloads/ and now...

$ python --version
Python 2.7.9
$ aws --version
aws-cli/1.7.22 Python/2.6.1 Darwin/10.8.0

...it seems to me that the AWS CLI thinks it is still using the old version.  

Will this cause problems later?  Can it be fixed?  

--Gil
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/attachments/20150415/32c5325b/attachment.html>

From mail at timgolden.me.uk  Wed Apr 15 15:16:49 2015
From: mail at timgolden.me.uk (Tim Golden)
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 2015 20:16:49 +0100
Subject: Searching the archives
In-Reply-To: <815276EC-5311-40B7-92C2-41F67EB9E251@GilDawson.com>
References: <890bd388-f50a-4dec-9ef5-27715427472a@googlegroups.com>
 <55288135$0$12997$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <87egnrb3il.fsf@jester.gateway.sonic.net> <87619387c0.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <90a8e07c-adb3-499f-8971-4ea49f6aea4b@googlegroups.com>
 <87lhhx7r44.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net> <87zj6czt84.fsf@jester.gateway.sonic.net>
 <mailman.262.1428892580.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <87vbh0zow3.fsf@jester.gateway.sonic.net>
 <mailman.263.1428899720.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <87r3rozjjp.fsf@jester.gateway.sonic.net>
 <552b6e78$0$12985$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <87egnnzb0k.fsf@jester.gateway.sonic.net>
 <552d18df$0$13006$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <871tjmyv4w.fsf@jester.gateway.sonic.net>
 <mailman.311.1429113657.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <87wq1dxszp.fsf@jester.gateway.sonic.net>
 <mailman.313.1429116402.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <87sic1xpg7.fsf@jester.gateway.sonic.net>
 <815276EC-5311-40B7-92C2-41F67EB9E251@GilDawson.com>
Message-ID: <552EB921.1030907@timgolden.me.uk>

On 15/04/2015 19:47, Gil Dawson wrote:
> Hi--
>
> I'm new here.  How do you search the archives?
>
> --Gil
>

There's nothing builtin to mailman (v 2.x which we're using). You've got 
a few options:

* Use Google (or whatever engine) with site:, eg:

https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=site:mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/+windows

* Use some other service like markmail:

http://markmail.org/search/?q=list%3Aorg.python.python-list+windows

* (As a last resort): 
https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/comp.lang.python

But, seriously, please don't post back through Google Groups: it messes 
up the formatting considerably and will generally annoy people.

TJG


From ben+python at benfinney.id.au  Wed Apr 15 15:48:00 2015
From: ben+python at benfinney.id.au (Ben Finney)
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 2015 05:48:00 +1000
Subject: Please use the Python Job Board (was: Immediate Hire: ETL Developers
 - Boise, Idaho)
References: <6e644108-9a92-40dc-bb7d-d2858f43b863@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <85wq1dtbpr.fsf@benfinney.id.au>

nagaraju thoudoju <nagarajuusstaffing at gmail.com> writes:

> Please find the requirement below and let me know you interest on this
> position

Please do not post recruitment messages here.

Instead, use the Python Job Board <URL:https://www.python.org/jobs/>
which is designed for this purpose.

-- 
 \       ?The Vatican is not a state.? a state must have people. There |
  `\    are no Vaticanians.? No-one gets born in the Vatican except by |
_o__)        an unfortunate accident.? ?Geoffrey Robertson, 2010-09-18 |
Ben Finney



From mr.smittye at gmail.com  Wed Apr 15 15:48:09 2015
From: mr.smittye at gmail.com (IronManMark20)
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 2015 12:48:09 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: ctypes: using .value or .value() doesn't work for c_long
Message-ID: <8a777999-f941-4fcf-a924-7a8a804e158d@googlegroups.com>

I am using ctypes to call a few windll funcions. One of them returns a c_long object. I want to know what number the function returns. 

Problem is, when I try foo.value , it gives me this:

AttributeError: LP_c_long object has no attribute value.

Any idea of what could cause this?


From ben+python at benfinney.id.au  Wed Apr 15 15:53:51 2015
From: ben+python at benfinney.id.au (Ben Finney)
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 2015 05:53:51 +1000
Subject: Searching the archives
References: <FCBD0BB4-8CD2-4259-8344-A51BC20314EF@GilDawson.com>
Message-ID: <85sic1tbg0.fsf@benfinney.id.au>

Gil Dawson <Gil at GilDawson.com> writes:

> This is my first message to this list.  I just signed on.

Welcome!

> How do you search the archives?

The forum is archived in numerous places. The complete set of forums is
at <URL:http://mail.python.org/>, for example this one is at
<URL:https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list>.

One straightforward way to search the official archives is to do a web
search including the term ?site:mail.python.org?. You can optionally add
another term for the name of the forum you want the search restricted
to. For example:

    <URL:https://duckduckgo.com/?q=site%3Amail.python.org+python-list+tutorial>

Good hunting!

-- 
 \      ?How many people here have telekenetic powers? Raise my hand.? |
  `\                                                      ?Emo Philips |
_o__)                                                                  |
Ben Finney



From skip.montanaro at gmail.com  Wed Apr 15 16:13:56 2015
From: skip.montanaro at gmail.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 2015 15:13:56 -0500
Subject: Please use the Python Job Board (was: Immediate Hire: ETL
 Developers - Boise, Idaho)
In-Reply-To: <85wq1dtbpr.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
References: <6e644108-9a92-40dc-bb7d-d2858f43b863@googlegroups.com>
 <85wq1dtbpr.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
Message-ID: <CANc-5Uxwwd4G9npaBROE5YC2VP7t7aQO7S1K5w7pb6zzOZ_JXw@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Apr 15, 2015 at 2:48 PM, Ben Finney <ben+python at benfinney.id.au> wrote:
> nagaraju thoudoju <nagarajuusstaffing at gmail.com> writes:
>
>> Please find the requirement below and let me know you interest on this
>> position
>
> Please do not post recruitment messages here.

He would have been rejected there as well. I saw nothing which looked
obviously Python-related (he didn't use the word "Python" in his post,
for example).

Skip


From no.email at nospam.invalid  Wed Apr 15 16:13:57 2015
From: no.email at nospam.invalid (Paul Rubin)
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 2015 13:13:57 -0700
Subject: Please use the Python Job Board
References: <6e644108-9a92-40dc-bb7d-d2858f43b863@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.319.1429127309.12925.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <87oampxi7u.fsf@jester.gateway.sonic.net>

Ben Finney <ben+python at benfinney.id.au> writes:
> nagaraju thoudoju <nagarajuusstaffing at gmail.com> writes:>
>> Please find the requirement below 
> use the Python Job Board ... which is designed for this purpose.

It wasn't a Python job from what I could tell.  It was just spam.  I
don't think the Python job board was designed for that.


From nad at acm.org  Wed Apr 15 16:32:17 2015
From: nad at acm.org (Ned Deily)
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 2015 13:32:17 -0700
Subject: Installing Python
References: <890bd388-f50a-4dec-9ef5-27715427472a@googlegroups.com>
 <55288135$0$12997$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <87egnrb3il.fsf@jester.gateway.sonic.net> <87619387c0.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <90a8e07c-adb3-499f-8971-4ea49f6aea4b@googlegroups.com>
 <87lhhx7r44.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net> <87zj6czt84.fsf@jester.gateway.sonic.net>
 <mailman.262.1428892580.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <87vbh0zow3.fsf@jester.gateway.sonic.net>
 <mailman.263.1428899720.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <87r3rozjjp.fsf@jester.gateway.sonic.net>
 <552b6e78$0$12985$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <87egnnzb0k.fsf@jester.gateway.sonic.net>
 <552d18df$0$13006$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <871tjmyv4w.fsf@jester.gateway.sonic.net>
 <mailman.311.1429113657.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <87wq1dxszp.fsf@jester.gateway.sonic.net>
 <mailman.313.1429116402.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <87sic1xpg7.fsf@jester.gateway.sonic.net>
 <4048AD0C-A403-4141-AB8B-5884A008496A@GilDawson.com>
Message-ID: <nad-F0FBB3.13321715042015@news.gmane.org>

In article <4048AD0C-A403-4141-AB8B-5884A008496A at GilDawson.com>,
 Gil Dawson <Gil at GilDawson.com> wrote:

> Hi--
> 
> I'm on MacOS 10.6.8, learning to use Amazon Web Services' Simple Storage 
> Service's Command Line Interface (AWS S3 CLI).
> 
> They say in their documentation that their CLI needs Python version 2.7 or 
> 3.4.  I checked in terminal:
> 
> $ python --version
> Python 2.6.1
> 
> So I ran the python-2.7.9-macosx10.6.pkg downloaded from 
> https://www.python.org/downloads/ and now...
> 
> $ python --version
> Python 2.7.9
> $ aws --version
> aws-cli/1.7.22 Python/2.6.1 Darwin/10.8.0
> 
> ...it seems to me that the AWS CLI thinks it is still using the old version.  
> 
> Will this cause problems later?  Can it be fixed?  

I don't have any personal experience using that package but, from the 
instructions I see on their website, if you followed their instructions 
to download and install pip, you've installed aws into the system Python 
(2.6) rather than your new Python 2.7.  As of 2.7.9, Pythons installed 
from python.org now include their own version of pip.  What you could 
try is the following:

1. Uninstall the 2.6 version of aws:

   sudo pip uninstall aws

2. Install aws with the 2.7 version of pip:

   python2.7 -m pip install aws

In the future, whenever something suggests using "pip" or "sudo pip", 
just use "python2.7 -m pip" instead to be (more) certain that you are 
installing to the Python instance you want.

-- 
 Ned Deily,
 nad at acm.org



From ian.g.kelly at gmail.com  Wed Apr 15 16:32:28 2015
From: ian.g.kelly at gmail.com (Ian Kelly)
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 2015 14:32:28 -0600
Subject: ctypes: using .value or .value() doesn't work for c_long
In-Reply-To: <8a777999-f941-4fcf-a924-7a8a804e158d@googlegroups.com>
References: <8a777999-f941-4fcf-a924-7a8a804e158d@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <CALwzidkTDMTvz4AcmsY20Eoban8UBRc+2+CbrY=Ujfi4Gr56aw@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Apr 15, 2015 at 1:48 PM, IronManMark20 <mr.smittye at gmail.com> wrote:
> I am using ctypes to call a few windll funcions. One of them returns a c_long object. I want to know what number the function returns.
>
> Problem is, when I try foo.value , it gives me this:
>
> AttributeError: LP_c_long object has no attribute value.
>
> Any idea of what could cause this?

The error message indicates that this is not actually a c_long object,
but an LP_c_long object; i.e., a pointer to a c_long. You can
dereference the pointer using the contents attribute:

>>> x = ctypes.c_long(42)
>>> px = ctypes.pointer(x)
>>> px
<__main__.LP_c_long object at 0x7fd0812d7950>
>>> px.contents
c_long(42)
>>> px.contents.value
42

See https://docs.python.org/3.4/library/ctypes.html#pointers for more
details on working with pointers in ctypes.


From davea at davea.name  Wed Apr 15 17:03:40 2015
From: davea at davea.name (Dave Angel)
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 2015 17:03:40 -0400
Subject: ctypes: using .value or .value() doesn't work for c_long
In-Reply-To: <8a777999-f941-4fcf-a924-7a8a804e158d@googlegroups.com>
References: <8a777999-f941-4fcf-a924-7a8a804e158d@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <552ED22C.5080007@davea.name>

On 04/15/2015 03:48 PM, IronManMark20 wrote:
> I am using ctypes to call a few windll funcions. One of them returns a c_long object. I want to know what number the function returns.
>
> Problem is, when I try foo.value , it gives me this:
>
> AttributeError: LP_c_long object has no attribute value.
>
> Any idea of what could cause this?
>

I don't use Windows, so I can't try it, especially since you didn't 
include any code <hint>.  And apparently whatever function you're using 
returns a pointer to a c_long, not a c_long.

I see Ian has given you an answer.  But let me show you how you might 
have come up with it on your own, for next time.

The fragment of the error you include says that the instance of the 
class LP_c_long doesn't have an attribute called "value".  But it 
undoubtedly has other attributes, so you could look with dir

     print(dir(foo))

Presumably from there you'll see that you need the 'contents' attribute. 
  Then you print that out, and/or dir a dir() on it, and you see that 
you now have a value attribute.


https://docs.python.org/3/library/ctypes.html

-- 
DaveA


From chris at simplistix.co.uk  Wed Apr 15 17:51:44 2015
From: chris at simplistix.co.uk (Chris Withers)
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 2015 17:51:44 -0400
Subject: xlwt 1.0.0 released!
Message-ID: <552EDD70.20307@simplistix.co.uk>

Hi All,

I'm pleased to announce the release of xlwt 1.0.0.

This release contains the following:

- Python 3 support.

- An initial set of unit tests.

- An initial set of Sphinx documentation.

- Move to setuptools for packaging.

- Wire up Travis, Coveralls and ReadTheDocs.

- Allow longs as row indexes.

Big thanks to Thomas Kluyver for his work on Python 3 support, Manfred 
Moitzi
for donating his unit tests.

Belated thanks to Landon Jurgens for his help on converting the 
documentation
to Sphinx.

If you find any problems, please ask about them on the 
python-excel at googlegroups.com list, or submit an issue on GitHub:

https://github.com/python-excel/xlwt/issues

There's also details of all things Python and Excel related here:

http://www.python-excel.org/

NB: This is likely the last "new feature" release of xlwt. If there are 
bugs, we will try and fix them, but it may be a slow process. If you're 
starting a new project, you should probably consider openpyxl or 
xlsxwriter instead.

cheers,

Chris

-- 
Simplistix - Content Management, Batch Processing & Python Consulting
             - http://www.simplistix.co.uk


From ethansmithoakland at gmail.com  Wed Apr 15 18:18:37 2015
From: ethansmithoakland at gmail.com (ethansmithoakland at gmail.com)
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 2015 15:18:37 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: ctypes: using .value or .value() doesn't work for c_long
In-Reply-To: <8a777999-f941-4fcf-a924-7a8a804e158d@googlegroups.com>
References: <8a777999-f941-4fcf-a924-7a8a804e158d@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <893ff631-cc6e-46ee-bb38-d23632ae84cb@googlegroups.com>

Thanks so much! Btw (face-palm) Dave, I know dir(), I probably should have used it here, I just read that the return type was a c_long, and I didn't know that LP_c_long was a pointer. Thanks to you both!


From gary.herron at islandtraining.com  Wed Apr 15 18:21:16 2015
From: gary.herron at islandtraining.com (Gary Herron)
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 2015 15:21:16 -0700
Subject: xlwt 1.0.0 released!
In-Reply-To: <552EDD70.20307@simplistix.co.uk>
References: <552EDD70.20307@simplistix.co.uk>
Message-ID: <552EE45C.2070707@islandtraining.com>

On 04/15/2015 02:51 PM, Chris Withers wrote:
> Hi All,
>
> I'm pleased to announce the release of xlwt 1.0.0.

What a curiously incomplete announcement.  Could you tell us what xlwt 
is?  I see no hint here.

Gary Herron


>
> This release contains the following:
>
> - Python 3 support.
>
> - An initial set of unit tests.
>
> - An initial set of Sphinx documentation.
>
> - Move to setuptools for packaging.
>
> - Wire up Travis, Coveralls and ReadTheDocs.
>
> - Allow longs as row indexes.
>
> Big thanks to Thomas Kluyver for his work on Python 3 support, Manfred 
> Moitzi
> for donating his unit tests.
>
> Belated thanks to Landon Jurgens for his help on converting the 
> documentation
> to Sphinx.
>
> If you find any problems, please ask about them on the 
> python-excel at googlegroups.com list, or submit an issue on GitHub:
>
> https://github.com/python-excel/xlwt/issues
>
> There's also details of all things Python and Excel related here:
>
> http://www.python-excel.org/
>
> NB: This is likely the last "new feature" release of xlwt. If there 
> are bugs, we will try and fix them, but it may be a slow process. If 
> you're starting a new project, you should probably consider openpyxl 
> or xlsxwriter instead.
>
> cheers,
>
> Chris
>



From steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info  Wed Apr 15 19:21:46 2015
From: steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 2015 09:21:46 +1000
Subject: xlwt 1.0.0 released!
References: <552EDD70.20307@simplistix.co.uk>
 <mailman.326.1429136802.12925.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <552ef28b$0$13003$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

On Thu, 16 Apr 2015 08:21 am, Gary Herron wrote:

> On 04/15/2015 02:51 PM, Chris Withers wrote:
>> Hi All,
>>
>> I'm pleased to announce the release of xlwt 1.0.0.
> 
> What a curiously incomplete announcement.  Could you tell us what xlwt
> is?  I see no hint here.

Perhaps you stopped reading too soon. There are a few definite hints -- but
only hints -- further down:

[...]
>> If you find any problems, please ask about them on the
>> python-excel at googlegroups.com list, or submit an issue on GitHub:
>>
>> https://github.com/python-excel/xlwt/issues
>>
>> There's also details of all things Python and Excel related here:
>>
>> http://www.python-excel.org/

Presumably xlwt has something to do with Python and eXceL ? And a second
hint:

>> NB: This is likely the last "new feature" release of xlwt. If there
>> are bugs, we will try and fix them, but it may be a slow process. If
>> you're starting a new project, you should probably consider openpyxl
>> or xlsxwriter instead.

Possibly something to do with *writing* Excel documents?

I agree that as announcements go, it lacks a little something, but it sounds
like the xlwt project is being retired so it may not matter.



-- 
Steven



From python.list at tim.thechases.com  Wed Apr 15 19:25:20 2015
From: python.list at tim.thechases.com (Tim Chase)
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 2015 18:25:20 -0500
Subject: xlwt 1.0.0 released!
In-Reply-To: <552EE45C.2070707@islandtraining.com>
References: <552EDD70.20307@simplistix.co.uk>
 <552EE45C.2070707@islandtraining.com>
Message-ID: <20150415182520.329039e2@bigbox.christie.dr>

On 2015-04-15 15:21, Gary Herron wrote:
> On 04/15/2015 02:51 PM, Chris Withers wrote:
> > I'm pleased to announce the release of xlwt 1.0.0.
> 
> What a curiously incomplete announcement.  Could you tell us what
> xlwt is?  I see no hint here.

Heh, this and its sibling package, xlrd, are Python packages for
writing and reading MS Excel files.  Unlike other Python
Excel-manipulation libraries I've encountered, they don't rely on
having an installed copy of Excel and can thus run on platforms where
Excel doesn't.

They've been pretty robust based on my poking at them, have been
around a good length of time (meaning more bugs have been worked out),
and Chris posts release notes here pretty regularly.  Regularly
enough that I'm pretty sure this isn't the first time he's omitted
the "this is what xlrd/xlwt is" line in his announcement. :-)

Thanks to Chris for all the dirty work done mucking around with .xls
internals to make these modules.

-tkc





From miragewebstudio12 at gmail.com  Wed Apr 15 21:41:46 2015
From: miragewebstudio12 at gmail.com (Mirage Web Studio)
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 2015 07:11:46 +0530
Subject: xlwt 1.0.0 released!
In-Reply-To: <20150415182520.329039e2@bigbox.christie.dr>
References: <552EDD70.20307@simplistix.co.uk>
 <552EE45C.2070707@islandtraining.com>
 <20150415182520.329039e2@bigbox.christie.dr>
Message-ID: <552F135A.1020103@gmail.com>


On 2015-04-16 4:55 AM, Tim Chase wrote:
> On 2015-04-15 15:21, Gary Herron wrote:
>> On 04/15/2015 02:51 PM, Chris Withers wrote:
>>> I'm pleased to announce the release of xlwt 1.0.0.
>> What a curiously incomplete announcement.  Could you tell us what
>> xlwt is?  I see no hint here.
> Heh, this and its sibling package, xlrd, are Python packages for
> writing and reading MS Excel files.  Unlike other Python
> Excel-manipulation libraries I've encountered, they don't rely on
> having an installed copy of Excel and can thus run on platforms where
> Excel doesn't.
>
> They've been pretty robust based on my poking at them, have been
> around a good length of time (meaning more bugs have been worked out),
> and Chris posts release notes here pretty regularly.  Regularly
> enough that I'm pretty sure this isn't the first time he's omitted
> the "this is what xlrd/xlwt is" line in his announcement. :-)
>
> Thanks to Chris for all the dirty work done mucking around with .xls
> internals to make these modules.
>
> -tkc

xlrd and xlwt have been of great help to me since the time i started 
using python.

thank u for such a nice library.

George

---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
http://www.avast.com



From blake1024 at gmail.com  Thu Apr 16 00:07:45 2015
From: blake1024 at gmail.com (Blake McBride)
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 2015 21:07:45 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: New to Python - block grouping (spaces)
Message-ID: <9fc57fc9-0399-4ff3-882a-d041f02827d8@googlegroups.com>

Greetings,

I am new to Python.  I am sorry for beating what is probably a dead horse but I checked the net and couldn't find the answer to my question.

I like a lot of what I've seen in Python, however, after 35 years and probably a dozen languages under my belt, I very strongly disagree with the notion of using white space to delimit blocks.  Not wanting to beat what I believe is probably a dead horse, I have one question.  

Is there a utility that will allow me to write Python-like code that includes some block delimiter that I can see, that converts the code into runnable Python code?  If so, where can I find it?

Thanks!

Blake McBride


From rustompmody at gmail.com  Thu Apr 16 00:17:51 2015
From: rustompmody at gmail.com (Rustom Mody)
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 2015 21:17:51 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: find all multiplicands and multipliers for a number
In-Reply-To: <871tjmyv4w.fsf@jester.gateway.sonic.net>
References: <890bd388-f50a-4dec-9ef5-27715427472a@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.209.1428714381.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <55288135$0$12997$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <87egnrb3il.fsf@jester.gateway.sonic.net> <87619387c0.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <90a8e07c-adb3-499f-8971-4ea49f6aea4b@googlegroups.com>
 <87lhhx7r44.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <87zj6czt84.fsf@jester.gateway.sonic.net>
 <mailman.262.1428892580.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <87vbh0zow3.fsf@jester.gateway.sonic.net>
 <mailman.263.1428899720.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <87r3rozjjp.fsf@jester.gateway.sonic.net>
 <552b6e78$0$12985$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <87egnnzb0k.fsf@jester.gateway.sonic.net>
 <552d18df$0$13006$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <871tjmyv4w.fsf@jester.gateway.sonic.net>
Message-ID: <a21145cf-0361-4c1e-824d-0194ac335acb@googlegroups.com>

On Wednesday, April 15, 2015 at 8:07:31 AM UTC+5:30, Paul Rubin wrote:
> Steven D'Aprano writes:
> >     primes = sieve [2..]
> >     sieve (p : xs) = p : sieve [x | x <- xs, x `mod` p > 0]
> > In her paper http://www.cs.hmc.edu/~oneill/papers/Sieve-JFP.pdf, Melissa
> > O'Neill calls this the "Sleight on Eratosthenes".
> 
> Oh cool, I wrote very similar Haskell code and converted it to Python.
> I probably saw it before though, so it looks like a case of
> not-exactly-independent re-invention.
> 
> > def turner():
> >     nums = itertools.count(2)
> >     while True:
> >         prime = next(nums)
> >         yield prime
> >         nums = filter(lambda v, p=prime: (v % p) != 0, nums)

Here's a massive parallel (and more massively inefficient)
Turner sieve as bash script

$ cat nos2

n=2
while true ; do
	echo $n
	n=$(($n + 1))
done

$ cat filt 
read x
while true ; do
    if [ $(($x % $1))  -ne 0 ] ; then
	echo $x
    fi
    read x
done


$ cat sieve
read x
echo $x
filt $x | sieve


Call as
nos2|sieve|less
For 1st ten primes

$ nos2|sieve |head
2
3
5
7
11
13
17
19
23
29


From no.email at nospam.invalid  Thu Apr 16 00:48:41 2015
From: no.email at nospam.invalid (Paul Rubin)
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 2015 21:48:41 -0700
Subject: New to Python - block grouping (spaces)
References: <9fc57fc9-0399-4ff3-882a-d041f02827d8@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <87zj68u192.fsf@jester.gateway.pace.com>

Blake McBride <blake1024 at gmail.com> writes:
> probably a dozen languages under my belt, I very strongly disagree
> with the notion of using white space to delimit blocks. 

I suggest giving it a try before deciding something like that.  I don't
guarantee you'll come around, but a lot of people decide after a while
that they like it after all.

> Is there a utility that will allow me to write Python-like code that
> includes some block delimiter that I can see, that converts the code
> into runnable Python code?  If so, where can I find it?

I'm not aware of one.  People who don't like Python's indentation syntax
tend to choose other languages.


From rosuav at gmail.com  Thu Apr 16 00:51:32 2015
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 2015 14:51:32 +1000
Subject: New to Python - block grouping (spaces)
In-Reply-To: <9fc57fc9-0399-4ff3-882a-d041f02827d8@googlegroups.com>
References: <9fc57fc9-0399-4ff3-882a-d041f02827d8@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmo1RTLPQCMVDGOQ3EfFdTD483NxYAPbpxxpAFu00Dse5w@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Apr 16, 2015 at 2:07 PM, Blake McBride <blake1024 at gmail.com> wrote:
> I like a lot of what I've seen in Python, however, after 35 years and probably a dozen languages under my belt, I very strongly disagree with the notion of using white space to delimit blocks.  Not wanting to beat what I believe is probably a dead horse, I have one question.
>
> Is there a utility that will allow me to write Python-like code that includes some block delimiter that I can see, that converts the code into runnable Python code?  If so, where can I find it?
>

Python has a mechanic for handling syntax changes in a
backward-compatible way: the __future__ module. Some handy reading:

https://docs.python.org/3/library/__future__.html
https://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0236/
https://docs.python.org/3/reference/simple_stmts.html#future

To make use of this, put this line at the top of your program:

from __future__ import braces

Give it a try, I'll wait for you. Or paste that in at the interactive
interpreter prompt.

Done it?

Okay. Now you understand how Python's developers feel about this kind
of thing :)

What you may want to consider is a Python-like language that uses a
different syntax: Pike. It's semantically very similar to Python, but
syntactically similar to C. Learn both, and then you'll understand a
bit more of the debate. I used to be firmly on the side of braces, but
not so much now; Python's use of indentation eliminates some
redundancy (since, after all, you're probably going to be indenting
correctly anyway). Yes, it's using something syntactically that you
might think of as pure formatting (leading whitespace on a line), but
it's not fundamentally illogical or anything.

You can, of course, come up with a syntax for a "brace-blocked
Python", and precompile it into actual runnable Python code. That'd be
fairly straight-forward. But the question is, why do it? You wouldn't
be able to take much advantage of it without making a whole lot of
other changes, which would basically mean turning it into a completely
different language, and then there's not a lot of point using Python
behind the scenes. For instance, Python has declared mutable globals,
whereas bracey languages usually have declared locals, or in the case
of PHP, declared globals (mutable or read-only). Which way would you
do it? And what about semicolons? If you're going to allow blocks of
code to be defined by visible characters instead of whitespace,
wouldn't it make sense to do the same with statements? In Python, for
instance, you can't do this:

if x==1: for i in range(3): print(i)

but you can do this:

if x==1: print(1); print(2);

and they'll both be governed by the 'if'.

I strongly recommend NOT doing a half-way change like this, just
adding braces and nothing more. All you'll end up doing is wishing
that Python were like C in some other way, and then another, and then
another, and you'll find yourself hating Python. Learn Python the way
Python is meant to be, and learn a different language if you like its
semantics but not its syntax.

And I'm happy to talk to you off-list about Pike. In my opinion, it
and Python are the two best programming languages in the world.

ChrisA


From steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info  Thu Apr 16 01:49:25 2015
From: steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 2015 15:49:25 +1000
Subject: New to Python - block grouping (spaces)
References: <9fc57fc9-0399-4ff3-882a-d041f02827d8@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <552f4d67$0$2907$c3e8da3$76491128@news.astraweb.com>

On Thursday 16 April 2015 14:07, Blake McBride wrote:

> Greetings,
> 
> I am new to Python.  I am sorry for beating what is probably a dead horse
> but I checked the net and couldn't find the answer to my question.
> 
> I like a lot of what I've seen in Python, however, after 35 years and
> probably a dozen languages under my belt, I very strongly disagree with
> the notion of using white space to delimit blocks.  Not wanting to beat
> what I believe is probably a dead horse, I have one question.
> 
> Is there a utility that will allow me to write Python-like code that
> includes some block delimiter that I can see, that converts the code into
> runnable Python code?  If so, where can I find it?

Python already supports this with the optional "block delimiter" sigil. For 
example, if you like braces, you can write:


def function(x):
#{
    if x > 1:
        #{
        print "x bigger than 1"
        #}
    else:
    #{
        print "x smaller than or equal to 1"
        while x <= 1:  #{
            x += 1  #}
        #}
    return x
#}

Notice that Python is clever enough to allow many brace styles, or even 
allow you to invent your own style.

If you prefer Pascal style, Python supports that too:

def function(x):
    # BEGIN
    return x
    # END

You can even localise it:

def function(x):  # ANFANGEN
    return x
    # BEENDEN


Best of all, Python's parser includes an advanced "Do What I Mean" expert 
system which can infer the intended block grouping from the indentation 
alone, even when braces are missing or in the wrong position. Unlike C, 
Python will do the right thing here:


if condition:
    do_this()
    do_that()


No more bugs from accidentally forgetting to use optional braces!



Sorry for the flippant response, but it's 2015, not 1995, and the question 
about the Offside Rule is not just a dead horse but it is positively 
fossilized.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Off-side_rule

I'm not aware of any pre-processor tools for Python that will syntactically 
check that added braces match the indentation. Such a tool would be 
unPythonic: if they match, the braces are redundant and are not needed, and 
if they do not match, then the compiler (or preprocessor) should not guess 
whether the indentation is right or the braces are right. But if you enforce 
the rule that braces must match indentation, then the braces are redundant!

If you find such a preprocessor, or write your own, feel free to use it. But 
you won't get any respect from experienced Python programmers: we use Python 
in part to get away from braces, we're not chomping at the bit to put them 
back in.

I'm aware that Coffeescript provides a brace-free wrapper around Javascript; 
I'm not aware of any wrapper that *adds* braces to a language without them. 
I suspect such a thing would be of limited use and even less popularity. But 
feel free to try developing one, I could be wrong!



-- 
Steve



From no.email at nospam.invalid  Thu Apr 16 02:11:18 2015
From: no.email at nospam.invalid (Paul Rubin)
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 2015 23:11:18 -0700
Subject: New to Python - block grouping (spaces)
References: <9fc57fc9-0399-4ff3-882a-d041f02827d8@googlegroups.com>
 <552f4d67$0$2907$c3e8da3$76491128@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <87vbgwtxfd.fsf@jester.gateway.pace.com>

Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info> writes:
> I'm aware that Coffeescript provides a brace-free wrapper around Javascript; 
> I'm not aware of any wrapper that *adds* braces to a language without them. 

You're not old enough to remember Ratfor ;-)


From alister.nospam.ware at ntlworld.com  Thu Apr 16 03:46:24 2015
From: alister.nospam.ware at ntlworld.com (alister)
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 2015 07:46:24 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: New to Python - block grouping (spaces)
References: <9fc57fc9-0399-4ff3-882a-d041f02827d8@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <mgnpcg$22i$1@speranza.aioe.org>

On Wed, 15 Apr 2015 21:07:45 -0700, Blake McBride wrote:

> Greetings,
> 
> I am new to Python.  I am sorry for beating what is probably a dead
> horse but I checked the net and couldn't find the answer to my question.
> 
> I like a lot of what I've seen in Python, however, after 35 years and
> probably a dozen languages under my belt, I very strongly disagree with
> the notion of using white space to delimit blocks.

as others have suggested this is a core to python as it enforces 
readability. Many new python programmes find it strange but usually take 
to it quite quickly.

what I find strange is that although these programmers initially disliked 
forced indentation they were voluntarily indenting there existing code 
anyway. Take a look at your existing code base & see if this would indeed 
be the case.

Stephens suggestion of using comments @ the start & end of your blocks 
may be useful during the learning phase.





-- 
Battle, n.:
	A method of untying with the teeth a political knot that
	will not yield to the tongue.
		-- Ambrose Bierce


From antoon.pardon at rece.vub.ac.be  Thu Apr 16 04:47:39 2015
From: antoon.pardon at rece.vub.ac.be (Antoon Pardon)
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 2015 10:47:39 +0200
Subject: New to Python - block grouping (spaces)
In-Reply-To: <mgnpcg$22i$1@speranza.aioe.org>
References: <9fc57fc9-0399-4ff3-882a-d041f02827d8@googlegroups.com>
 <mgnpcg$22i$1@speranza.aioe.org>
Message-ID: <552F772B.8030201@rece.vub.ac.be>

On 04/16/2015 09:46 AM, alister wrote:

> what I find strange is that although these programmers initially disliked 
> forced indentation they were voluntarily indenting there existing code 
> anyway. Take a look at your existing code base & see if this would indeed 
> be the case.

The problem is that the logical structure one has in one's head is not always
the same as the physical structure one has to implement in. I prefer the
indentation of my program to reflect the former instead of the latter. That
is impossible in python.

This problem sometimes shows up when possible new programming structures are
discussed and the structure is discareded, not because it lacks merrit but
because it can't me made to fit into the forced indentation mold of python.



From rosuav at gmail.com  Thu Apr 16 05:34:04 2015
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 2015 19:34:04 +1000
Subject: New to Python - block grouping (spaces)
In-Reply-To: <552F772B.8030201@rece.vub.ac.be>
References: <9fc57fc9-0399-4ff3-882a-d041f02827d8@googlegroups.com>
 <mgnpcg$22i$1@speranza.aioe.org> <552F772B.8030201@rece.vub.ac.be>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmoeN1EYGmNW4ssfSBMhhAjwtbfeQnEbFxOKxNARL7VizA@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Apr 16, 2015 at 6:47 PM, Antoon Pardon
<antoon.pardon at rece.vub.ac.be> wrote:
> On 04/16/2015 09:46 AM, alister wrote:
>
>> what I find strange is that although these programmers initially disliked
>> forced indentation they were voluntarily indenting there existing code
>> anyway. Take a look at your existing code base & see if this would indeed
>> be the case.
>
> The problem is that the logical structure one has in one's head is not always
> the same as the physical structure one has to implement in. I prefer the
> indentation of my program to reflect the former instead of the latter. That
> is impossible in python.

I agree, but as it turns out, the number of times when this actually
makes a difference are diminishingly few. The most warpedly correct
indentation I've ever done was in PHP, where I used a triply-nested
structure of switch/case blocks to simulate a logical structure that
in Python would simply be a series of top-level functions - or *maybe*
a series of class definitions with methods in them. So if I were doing
the same logical structure in Python, I wouldn't mind the indentation
matching the physical structure, because it'd be sufficiently close.

ChrisA


From antoon.pardon at rece.vub.ac.be  Thu Apr 16 06:09:44 2015
From: antoon.pardon at rece.vub.ac.be (Antoon Pardon)
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 2015 12:09:44 +0200
Subject: New to Python - block grouping (spaces)
In-Reply-To: <CAPTjJmoeN1EYGmNW4ssfSBMhhAjwtbfeQnEbFxOKxNARL7VizA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <9fc57fc9-0399-4ff3-882a-d041f02827d8@googlegroups.com>
 <mgnpcg$22i$1@speranza.aioe.org> <552F772B.8030201@rece.vub.ac.be>
 <CAPTjJmoeN1EYGmNW4ssfSBMhhAjwtbfeQnEbFxOKxNARL7VizA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <552F8A68.2000908@rece.vub.ac.be>

On 04/16/2015 11:34 AM, Chris Angelico wrote:
> On Thu, Apr 16, 2015 at 6:47 PM, Antoon Pardon
> <antoon.pardon at rece.vub.ac.be> wrote:
>> On 04/16/2015 09:46 AM, alister wrote:
>>
>>> what I find strange is that although these programmers initially disliked
>>> forced indentation they were voluntarily indenting there existing code
>>> anyway. Take a look at your existing code base & see if this would indeed
>>> be the case.
>> The problem is that the logical structure one has in one's head is not always
>> the same as the physical structure one has to implement in. I prefer the
>> indentation of my program to reflect the former instead of the latter. That
>> is impossible in python.
> I agree, but as it turns out, the number of times when this actually
> makes a difference are diminishingly few. 

I beg to differ. The most common occurence is a loop with a break condition
in the middle I would prefer such a loop to be written as follows:

repeat:
    some
    code
break_when condition:
    more
    code

Actually I would prefer a more elaborate scheme but would be contend with
a possibility like the above. IMO this is the most occuring pattern where
the logical structure doesn't match the physical structure and it is not
occuring relevantly less now.



From steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info  Thu Apr 16 06:43:47 2015
From: steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 2015 20:43:47 +1000
Subject: New to Python - block grouping (spaces)
References: <9fc57fc9-0399-4ff3-882a-d041f02827d8@googlegroups.com>
 <mgnpcg$22i$1@speranza.aioe.org> <552F772B.8030201@rece.vub.ac.be>
 <CAPTjJmoeN1EYGmNW4ssfSBMhhAjwtbfeQnEbFxOKxNARL7VizA@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.334.1429178988.12925.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <552f9264$0$11092$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>

On Thursday 16 April 2015 20:09, Antoon Pardon wrote:

> I beg to differ. The most common occurence is a loop with a break
> condition in the middle I would prefer such a loop to be written as
> follows:
> 
> repeat:
>     some
>     code
> break_when condition:
>     more
>     code


That structure makes no sense to me. Why is the "break_when" *outside* of 
the loop? Why does the "break_when condition" introduce a new block?



> Actually I would prefer a more elaborate scheme but would be contend with
> a possibility like the above. IMO this is the most occuring pattern where
> the logical structure doesn't match the physical structure and it is not
> occuring relevantly less now.


Judging by the above example, I think it may be a good thing that Python 
doesn't allow "more elaborate" indentation schemes.

repeat:
    do this
    do that
                  do something else important
          and this
sometimes this
          also this
                             but don't do this
  unless today is Tuesday
               # end loop



Simplicity is a virtue.




-- 
Steve



From bc at freeuk.com  Thu Apr 16 06:51:32 2015
From: bc at freeuk.com (BartC)
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 2015 11:51:32 +0100
Subject: New to Python - block grouping (spaces)
In-Reply-To: <552f4d67$0$2907$c3e8da3$76491128@news.astraweb.com>
References: <9fc57fc9-0399-4ff3-882a-d041f02827d8@googlegroups.com>
 <552f4d67$0$2907$c3e8da3$76491128@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <ZuMXw.265846$lV1.201190@fx05.am4>

On 16/04/2015 06:49, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> On Thursday 16 April 2015 14:07, Blake McBride wrote:

>> Is there a utility that will allow me to write Python-like code that
>> includes some block delimiter that I can see, that converts the code into
>> runnable Python code?  If so, where can I find it?

> No more bugs from accidentally forgetting to use optional braces!

You get bugs instead from mistakenly using the wrong indentation or 
losing the correct indentation (accidentally pressing the wrong key for 
example).

> If you find such a preprocessor, or write your own, feel free to use it. But
> you won't get any respect from experienced Python programmers: we use Python
> in part to get away from braces, we're not chomping at the bit to put them
> back in.
>
> I'm aware that Coffeescript provides a brace-free wrapper around Javascript;
> I'm not aware of any wrapper that *adds* braces to a language without them.
> I suspect such a thing would be of limited use and even less popularity. But
> feel free to try developing one, I could be wrong!

I used a wrapper a couple of years ago that allowed me to write in my 
own Algol68-style syntax and produce Python as output. A short example 
might have this as input:

proc start=
   to 10 do
     println "Hello World"
   od
end

and produced:

import sys
import math
import copy

def start():
     _tmp1=10
     while _tmp1>0:
         sys.stdout.write(str("Hello World"))
         sys.stdout.write("\n")
         _tmp1=_tmp1-1

start()

(It actually worked quite well, for small programs, and I managed to get 
the same input converted to Lisp and Lua too. Also, for very simple 
programs, to C, but this requires static type declarations which are 
ignored for Python output.

However the main problem was that Python was too semantically different 
from the way I normally used the input language, and now that language 
is self-contained and does its own thing.)

This wrapper took the form of a proper parser for the input, producing 
an abstract syntax tree, which was then written out in the output syntax 
of choice.

Where the input is already nearly Python, then it can much simpler, but 
it can't do so much checking. If there is a 1:1 correspondence between 
line numbers of input and output, then it makes it easier to match any 
Python errors with the original not-quite-Python source code.

I've used this approach to add Algol-68 block delimiters (and change a 
few other things I found annoying) to C code.

-- 
Bartc


From antoon.pardon at rece.vub.ac.be  Thu Apr 16 07:07:22 2015
From: antoon.pardon at rece.vub.ac.be (Antoon Pardon)
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 2015 13:07:22 +0200
Subject: New to Python - block grouping (spaces)
In-Reply-To: <552f9264$0$11092$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
References: <9fc57fc9-0399-4ff3-882a-d041f02827d8@googlegroups.com>
 <mgnpcg$22i$1@speranza.aioe.org> <552F772B.8030201@rece.vub.ac.be>
 <CAPTjJmoeN1EYGmNW4ssfSBMhhAjwtbfeQnEbFxOKxNARL7VizA@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.334.1429178988.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <552f9264$0$11092$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <552F97EA.5080401@rece.vub.ac.be>

On 04/16/2015 12:43 PM, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> On Thursday 16 April 2015 20:09, Antoon Pardon wrote:
>
>> I beg to differ. The most common occurence is a loop with a break
>> condition in the middle I would prefer such a loop to be written as
>> follows:
>>
>> repeat:
>>     some
>>     code
>> break_when condition:
>>     more
>>     code
>
> That structure makes no sense to me. Why is the "break_when" *outside* of 
> the loop? Why does the "break_when condition" introduce a new block?

How do you mean outside the loop? Do you consider the "else" outside the
if statement?

>> Actually I would prefer a more elaborate scheme but would be contend with
>> a possibility like the above. IMO this is the most occuring pattern where
>> the logical structure doesn't match the physical structure and it is not
>> occuring relevantly less now.
>
> Judging by the above example, I think it may be a good thing that Python 
> doesn't allow "more elaborate" indentation schemes.
>
> repeat:
>     do this
>     do that
>                   do something else important
>           and this
> sometimes this
>           also this
>                              but don't do this
>   unless today is Tuesday
>                # end loop
>
>
>
> Simplicity is a virtue.

As is argueing against a real position instead of making something up.
Nobody is argueing for arbitrary indentation.



From breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk  Thu Apr 16 08:17:33 2015
From: breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk (Mark Lawrence)
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 2015 13:17:33 +0100
Subject: New to Python - block grouping (spaces)
In-Reply-To: <9fc57fc9-0399-4ff3-882a-d041f02827d8@googlegroups.com>
References: <9fc57fc9-0399-4ff3-882a-d041f02827d8@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <mgo992$2i3$1@ger.gmane.org>

On 16/04/2015 05:07, Blake McBride wrote:
> Greetings,
>
> I am new to Python.  I am sorry for beating what is probably a dead horse but I checked the net and couldn't find the answer to my question.
>
> I like a lot of what I've seen in Python, however, after 35 years and probably a dozen languages under my belt, I very strongly disagree with the notion of using white space to delimit blocks.  Not wanting to beat what I believe is probably a dead horse, I have one question.
>
> Is there a utility that will allow me to write Python-like code that includes some block delimiter that I can see, that converts the code into runnable Python code?  If so, where can I find it?
>
> Thanks!
>
> Blake McBride
>

You're not beating a dead horse, it was reduced to a skeleton years ago. 
  I'd either get used to the use of whitespace or find another language.

-- 
My fellow Pythonistas, ask not what our language can do for you, ask
what you can do for our language.

Mark Lawrence



From antoon.pardon at rece.vub.ac.be  Thu Apr 16 08:48:32 2015
From: antoon.pardon at rece.vub.ac.be (Antoon Pardon)
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 2015 14:48:32 +0200
Subject: New to Python - block grouping (spaces)
In-Reply-To: <9fc57fc9-0399-4ff3-882a-d041f02827d8@googlegroups.com>
References: <9fc57fc9-0399-4ff3-882a-d041f02827d8@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <552FAFA0.1050909@rece.vub.ac.be>

On 04/16/2015 06:07 AM, Blake McBride wrote:
> Greetings,
>
> I am new to Python.  I am sorry for beating what is probably a dead horse but I checked the net and couldn't find the answer to my question.
>
> I like a lot of what I've seen in Python, however, after 35 years and probably a dozen languages under my belt, I very strongly disagree with the notion of using white space to delimit blocks.  Not wanting to beat what I believe is probably a dead horse, I have one question.  
>
> Is there a utility that will allow me to write Python-like code that includes some block delimiter that I can see, that converts the code into runnable Python code?  If so, where can I find it?
>
> Thanks!
>
> Blake McBride

If you really want this, and don't like using comments to achieve this,
you can do the folling.

endfor = endif = enddef = endwhile = None

def poweri(a, i):
    if i < 0:
        i = -i
        fac = 1.0 / a
    else:
        fac = a
    endif
    total = 1
    while i:
        if i % 2:
            total *= fac
        endif
        fac *= fac
        i /= 2
    endwhile
    return total
enddef
        



From wrw at mac.com  Thu Apr 16 09:00:11 2015
From: wrw at mac.com (William Ray Wing)
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 2015 09:00:11 -0400
Subject: New to Python - block grouping (spaces)
In-Reply-To: <87vbgwtxfd.fsf@jester.gateway.pace.com>
References: <9fc57fc9-0399-4ff3-882a-d041f02827d8@googlegroups.com>
 <552f4d67$0$2907$c3e8da3$76491128@news.astraweb.com>
 <87vbgwtxfd.fsf@jester.gateway.pace.com>
Message-ID: <C81E05F3-E0C4-4362-BEFA-2D85D81CBD0E@mac.com>


> On Apr 16, 2015, at 2:11 AM, Paul Rubin <no.email at nospam.invalid> wrote:
> 
> Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info> writes:
>> I'm aware that Coffeescript provides a brace-free wrapper around Javascript; 
>> I'm not aware of any wrapper that *adds* braces to a language without them. 
> 
> You're not old enough to remember Ratfor ;-)
> -- 
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

HO Boy - Rational FORTRAN!  Right up there with WatFOR (Waterloo FORTRAN for you youngsters).  It was interpreted FORTRAN.  Used teaching new programmers back in the day because it kept them from crashing the system.

Bill

From alister.nospam.ware at ntlworld.com  Thu Apr 16 09:18:12 2015
From: alister.nospam.ware at ntlworld.com (alister)
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 2015 13:18:12 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: New to Python - block grouping (spaces)yhoni
References: <9fc57fc9-0399-4ff3-882a-d041f02827d8@googlegroups.com>
 <mgnpcg$22i$1@speranza.aioe.org> <552F772B.8030201@rece.vub.ac.be>
 <CAPTjJmoeN1EYGmNW4ssfSBMhhAjwtbfeQnEbFxOKxNARL7VizA@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.334.1429178988.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <552f9264$0$11092$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
 <mailman.336.1429183861.12925.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <mgocqk$o11$1@speranza.aioe.org>

On Thu, 16 Apr 2015 13:07:22 +0200, Antoon Pardon wrote:

> On 04/16/2015 12:43 PM, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
>> On Thursday 16 April 2015 20:09, Antoon Pardon wrote:
>>
>>> I beg to differ. The most common occurence is a loop with a break
>>> condition in the middle I would prefer such a loop to be written as
>>> follows:
>>>
>>> repeat:
>>>     some code
>>> break_when condition:
>>>     more code
>>
>> That structure makes no sense to me. Why is the "break_when" *outside*
>> of the loop? Why does the "break_when condition" introduce a new block?
> 
> How do you mean outside the loop? Do you consider the "else" outside the
> if statement?
> 
>>> Actually I would prefer a more elaborate scheme but would be contend
>>> with a possibility like the above. IMO this is the most occuring
>>> pattern where the logical structure doesn't match the physical
>>> structure and it is not occuring relevantly less now.
>>
>> Judging by the above example, I think it may be a good thing that
>> Python doesn't allow "more elaborate" indentation schemes.
>>
>> repeat:
>>     do this do that
>>                   do something else important
>>           and this
>> sometimes this
>>           also this
>>                              but don't do this
>>   unless today is Tuesday
>>                # end loop
>>
>>
>>
>> Simplicity is a virtue.
> 
> As is argueing against a real position instead of making something up.
> Nobody is argueing for arbitrary indentation.

May I suggest that you give it a try for a month, perhaps re-writing a 
small program you already have in a pythonic style (don't simply write c 
in python) & see if your opinion changes.


if not then other suggestions that python is not a language of choice for 
you may be appropriate.

be warned you may find it creates (or increases ) an extreme dislike for 
C & other languages that require braces & semicolons, it did for me 
(especially the semi-colon!)



-- 
If in any problem you find yourself doing an immense amount of work, the
answer can be obtained by simple inspection.


From skip.montanaro at gmail.com  Thu Apr 16 09:32:39 2015
From: skip.montanaro at gmail.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 2015 08:32:39 -0500
Subject: Importing/migrating Mailman mbox files into Google Groups?
Message-ID: <CANc-5Uw9cBhuZ6qOAAFDmZhtpqhO8ZbyEALw1MyJ06b0PVVG8Q@mail.gmail.com>

Quite sometime ago (2011?), the classic-rendezvous mailing list, which had
been hosted by a Mailman instance at bikelist.org, was reconstituted as a
Google Group. Just a bunch of old bikies interested in vintage bikes. The
original archives were never imported into the new group. (It might not
have been possible at that time.) I suspect there might be a way to
accomplish that today using some Google API like this:

https://developers.google.com/admin-sdk/groups-migration/v1/reference/archive/insert

Has anyone here attempted such a feat? I have no problem with the Python
side of traversing the necessary mbox archive files, but have no experience
with any of the Google APIs.

Pointers appreciated...

Skip
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/attachments/20150416/328db16e/attachment.html>

From square.steve at gmail.com  Thu Apr 16 09:37:33 2015
From: square.steve at gmail.com (Simmo)
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 2015 14:37:33 +0100
Subject: New to Python - block grouping (spaces)
In-Reply-To: <9fc57fc9-0399-4ff3-882a-d041f02827d8@googlegroups.com>
References: <9fc57fc9-0399-4ff3-882a-d041f02827d8@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <552FBB1D.2040200@bellissimmo.com>

On 16/04/2015 05:07, Blake McBride wrote:
> Greetings,
>
> I am new to Python.  I am sorry for beating what is probably a dead horse but I checked the net and couldn't find the answer to my question.
>
> I like a lot of what I've seen in Python, however, after 35 years and probably a dozen languages under my belt, I very strongly disagree with the notion of using white space to delimit blocks.  Not wanting to beat what I believe is probably a dead horse, I have one question.
>
> Is there a utility that will allow me to write Python-like code that includes some block delimiter that I can see, that converts the code into runnable Python code?  If so, where can I find it?
>
> Thanks!
>
> Blake McBride
>
Interesting point of view.  Likewise, I have used more than a dozen 
languages and I like Python a lot.  Why?  Because the use of indentation 
is (mostly) unambiguous and I find it a lot cleaner than having to check 
whether I need braces, parentheses or whatever delimiters are correct 
for a particular language.  Plus I am relieved of the stylistic debates 
about whether the start-of-block marker starts after the 'IF' or on a 
new line and how the subsequent lines of code should be aligned.

For me, Python is clean and easy to write and, more importantly, I find 
it easier to follow and understand code written by others.

Steve Simmons


From rosuav at gmail.com  Thu Apr 16 09:41:22 2015
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 2015 23:41:22 +1000
Subject: New to Python - block grouping (spaces)
In-Reply-To: <552F97EA.5080401@rece.vub.ac.be>
References: <9fc57fc9-0399-4ff3-882a-d041f02827d8@googlegroups.com>
 <mgnpcg$22i$1@speranza.aioe.org> <552F772B.8030201@rece.vub.ac.be>
 <CAPTjJmoeN1EYGmNW4ssfSBMhhAjwtbfeQnEbFxOKxNARL7VizA@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.334.1429178988.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <552f9264$0$11092$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
 <552F97EA.5080401@rece.vub.ac.be>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmq3Ybnd9jFh4dW04c49Av6xNOMn1PuvtjU3mmBKoe3+sw@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Apr 16, 2015 at 9:07 PM, Antoon Pardon
<antoon.pardon at rece.vub.ac.be> wrote:
> On 04/16/2015 12:43 PM, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
>> On Thursday 16 April 2015 20:09, Antoon Pardon wrote:
>>
>>> I beg to differ. The most common occurence is a loop with a break
>>> condition in the middle I would prefer such a loop to be written as
>>> follows:
>>>
>>> repeat:
>>>     some
>>>     code
>>> break_when condition:
>>>     more
>>>     code

The case of a loop structure with its condition in the middle is one
that few languages support, so the physical structure has to be
something like:

goto middle
while not condition:
    more code
    label middle
    some code

or

while True:
    some code
    if condition: break
    more code

or maybe

some code
while not condition:
    more code
    some code

But I'm not sure how you could represent this more appropriately,
regardless of your indentation. Unindenting an "if" in the middle of a
loop doesn't instantly scream "this is the loop header". Using a goto
to jump half way into a loop is a really REALLY bad idea in most
programs (and it's illegal in lots of languages anyway). Repeating the
setup code is fine if it's a single line, but not else.

Similar to this is the capturing condition. Say you want to process
lines until you get to one that consists solely of a full stop. In C,
you can do this (kinda); in Pike, where strings are first-class
objects (like Python, unlike C), you can definitely do it,
syntactically:

while ((line=get_next_line()) != ".")
    process_line(line);

Perfectly legal. Not perfectly readable. In Python, your options are a
helper generator function:

def next_line():
    while True:
        line = get_next_line()
        if line==".": break
        yield line
for line in next_line():
    process_line(line)

or a loop with a critical line of code duplicated above and at the
bottom of the loop (risks 'continue' failure):

line = get_next_line()
while line!=".":
    process_line(line)
    line = get_next_line()

or the "mid-loop break" model, which is what makes this similar to the above:

while True:
    line = get_next_line()
    if line==".": break
    process_line(line)

There's no nice way to spell "grab this and retain it". But again, I'm
not sure how a change of indentation could improve this.

>> That structure makes no sense to me. Why is the "break_when" *outside* of
>> the loop? Why does the "break_when condition" introduce a new block?
>
> How do you mean outside the loop? Do you consider the "else" outside the
> if statement?

The "break_when" is part of the loop structure, not the loop body.
With an entry-checked condition, the loop structure is flush left, and
the loop body is indented:

x, y = 0, 1
while x < y:
    x = (x + y) / 2
    y = f(x)

Some languages have a similar construct for an exit-checked condition, eg REXX:

do until x > y
    /* as above */
end

or BASIC-derived languages:

do
    rem as above
loop while x < y

In all three cases, the condition is on a line that's not indented. So
logically, the mid-checked loop could also go flush left:

do
    some code
while condition
    more code
end

Whether this actually improves readability or not is a separate
question. The "break_when" isn't so much *outside* the loop as simply
*not inside* the loop.

ChrisA


From bc at freeuk.com  Thu Apr 16 09:44:15 2015
From: bc at freeuk.com (BartC)
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 2015 14:44:15 +0100
Subject: New to Python - block grouping (spaces)yhoni
In-Reply-To: <mgocqk$o11$1@speranza.aioe.org>
References: <9fc57fc9-0399-4ff3-882a-d041f02827d8@googlegroups.com>	<mgnpcg$22i$1@speranza.aioe.org>
 <552F772B.8030201@rece.vub.ac.be>	<CAPTjJmoeN1EYGmNW4ssfSBMhhAjwtbfeQnEbFxOKxNARL7VizA@mail.gmail.com>	<mailman.334.1429178988.12925.python-list@python.org>	<552f9264$0$11092$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>	<mailman.336.1429183861.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <mgocqk$o11$1@speranza.aioe.org>
Message-ID: <V0PXw.267129$UV7.31380@fx27.am4>

On 16/04/2015 14:18, alister wrote:
> On Thu, 16 Apr 2015 13:07:22 +0200, Antoon Pardon wrote:

>> Nobody is argueing for arbitrary indentation.
>
> May I suggest that you give it a try for a month, perhaps re-writing a
> small program you already have in a pythonic style (don't simply write c
> in python) & see if your opinion changes.

You mean try writing pure Python for a month? Yes, you can get used to 
anything. But that doesn't take away from the issues that some people 
have with its indentation. In my case, that would be the following 
(apart from the extra fragility of the code which you can't argue with):

* I need some closure, some indication of where the end of a block is. 
Otherwise how do I know I'm looking at the last statement, or whether 
there is more on the next page or further down the screen?

Even when I can see what follows the block, I can only infer that this 
is the end of the block because I eventually hit some other arbitrary 
construct with less indentation, not something specifically signalling 
the end of /that/ block.

(This would come up when using copy&paste for example. If I've 
accidentally left out the last line of a block, I won't know about it 
until the code later doesn't work.)

* I modify code a lot, adding and removing extra nested blocks all the 
time. My editor can't indent or un-indent blocks without a lot of manual 
typing. With block-delimited schemes, this isn't an issue, as temporary 
lack of correct indentation isn't crucial.

(However, given a choice of only brace-delimited blocks, and Python 
style, I'd go for the latter! I have a longer list of complaints for 
C-style braces.)

-- 
Bartc


From rosuav at gmail.com  Thu Apr 16 09:50:41 2015
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 2015 23:50:41 +1000
Subject: New to Python - block grouping (spaces)yhoni
In-Reply-To: <mgocqk$o11$1@speranza.aioe.org>
References: <9fc57fc9-0399-4ff3-882a-d041f02827d8@googlegroups.com>
 <mgnpcg$22i$1@speranza.aioe.org> <552F772B.8030201@rece.vub.ac.be>
 <CAPTjJmoeN1EYGmNW4ssfSBMhhAjwtbfeQnEbFxOKxNARL7VizA@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.334.1429178988.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <552f9264$0$11092$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
 <mailman.336.1429183861.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <mgocqk$o11$1@speranza.aioe.org>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmo=6Zo2OrsULYoMO9KDuOMcxZGZX3xQC8twgBT3+=Lcbg@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Apr 16, 2015 at 11:18 PM, alister
<alister.nospam.ware at ntlworld.com> wrote:
> be warned you may find it creates (or increases ) an extreme dislike for
> C & other languages that require braces & semicolons, it did for me
> (especially the semi-colon!)

I'd just like to add to this that the lack of semicolon in Python
works well because, and *only* because, Python has a lot of other
rules that also are newline-sensitive. ECMAScript code sometimes runs
foul of the "oops I left off a semicolon and my program did something
weird" problem, which Python code almost never will. (Partly that's
because Python prefers to raise SyntaxError in ambiguous cases,
whereas ECMAScript tends to assign meaning to them one way or
another.) If you're writing ECMAScript code, you probably want to keep
all the semis, but in Python, they don't help you at all.

And yet they're both classed as optional. Does that seem right to you? :)

ChrisA


From ivanjankovic at live.ca  Thu Apr 16 09:52:02 2015
From: ivanjankovic at live.ca (jogaserbia)
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 2015 06:52:02 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: xlwt 1.0.0 released!
In-Reply-To: <mailman.325.1429134712.12925.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.325.1429134712.12925.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <9267b6b4-1ca3-4764-b396-ae33b222af97@googlegroups.com>

Thanks Chris.

I'll be doing some stuff in python and excel in the future, and this will help out a lot.  

Ivan


From antoon.pardon at rece.vub.ac.be  Thu Apr 16 09:57:41 2015
From: antoon.pardon at rece.vub.ac.be (Antoon Pardon)
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 2015 15:57:41 +0200
Subject: New to Python - block grouping (spaces)
In-Reply-To: <CAPTjJmq3Ybnd9jFh4dW04c49Av6xNOMn1PuvtjU3mmBKoe3+sw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <9fc57fc9-0399-4ff3-882a-d041f02827d8@googlegroups.com>
 <mgnpcg$22i$1@speranza.aioe.org> <552F772B.8030201@rece.vub.ac.be>
 <CAPTjJmoeN1EYGmNW4ssfSBMhhAjwtbfeQnEbFxOKxNARL7VizA@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.334.1429178988.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <552f9264$0$11092$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
 <552F97EA.5080401@rece.vub.ac.be>
 <CAPTjJmq3Ybnd9jFh4dW04c49Av6xNOMn1PuvtjU3mmBKoe3+sw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <552FBFD5.8060402@rece.vub.ac.be>

On 04/16/2015 03:41 PM, Chris Angelico wrote:
> The case of a loop structure with its condition in the middle is one
> that few languages support, so the physical structure has to be
> something like:
>
> goto middle
> while not condition:
>     more code
>     label middle
>     some code
>
> or
>
> while True:
>     some code
>     if condition: break
>     more code
>
> or maybe
>
> some code
> while not condition:
>     more code
>     some code
>
> But I'm not sure how you could represent this more appropriately,
> regardless of your indentation. Unindenting an "if" in the middle of a
> loop doesn't instantly scream "this is the loop header". Using a goto
> to jump half way into a loop is a really REALLY bad idea in most
> programs (and it's illegal in lots of languages anyway). Repeating the
> setup code is fine if it's a single line, but not else.
>
I'm not going to argue the merrits of various indentations styles. I
just wanted to protest the notion, that because one indents one's programs
in languages that don't require indentations, one can't have a quarrel
with how python forces you to indent.

A choice was made and although I would have preferred otherwise, I can
live with it.

-- 
Antoon Pardon



From antoon.pardon at rece.vub.ac.be  Thu Apr 16 10:09:13 2015
From: antoon.pardon at rece.vub.ac.be (Antoon Pardon)
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 2015 16:09:13 +0200
Subject: New to Python - block grouping (spaces)yhoni
In-Reply-To: <mgocqk$o11$1@speranza.aioe.org>
References: <9fc57fc9-0399-4ff3-882a-d041f02827d8@googlegroups.com>
 <mgnpcg$22i$1@speranza.aioe.org> <552F772B.8030201@rece.vub.ac.be>
 <CAPTjJmoeN1EYGmNW4ssfSBMhhAjwtbfeQnEbFxOKxNARL7VizA@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.334.1429178988.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <552f9264$0$11092$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
 <mailman.336.1429183861.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <mgocqk$o11$1@speranza.aioe.org>
Message-ID: <552FC289.4090603@rece.vub.ac.be>

On 04/16/2015 03:18 PM, alister wrote:

>
>> As is argueing against a real position instead of making something up.
>> Nobody is argueing for arbitrary indentation.
> May I suggest that you give it a try for a month, perhaps re-writing a 
> small program you already have in a pythonic style (don't simply write c 
> in python) & see if your opinion changes.
>
> if not then other suggestions that python is not a language of choice for 
> you may be appropriate.
>
> be warned you may find it creates (or increases ) an extreme dislike for 
> C & other languages that require braces & semicolons, it did for me 
> (especially the semi-colon!)

I think you are mistaking me for someone else. I have been using python
since before 2000. I went from not liking the forced indentation to not
being bothered with it to not liking it again.

I also think that one doesn't need to discard a language just because one
doesn't like this particular feature. One can think the other characteristics
of the language are positive enough one can live with this small annoyance.

-- 
Antoon Pardon.



From invalid at invalid.invalid  Thu Apr 16 10:27:38 2015
From: invalid at invalid.invalid (Grant Edwards)
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 2015 14:27:38 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Searching the archives
References: <FCBD0BB4-8CD2-4259-8344-A51BC20314EF@GilDawson.com>
 <mailman.320.1429127642.12925.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <mgogsq$kiu$1@reader1.panix.com>

On 2015-04-15, Ben Finney <ben+python at benfinney.id.au> wrote:
> Gil Dawson <Gil at GilDawson.com> writes:
>
>> This is my first message to this list.  I just signed on.
>
> Welcome!
>
>> How do you search the archives?
>
> The forum is archived in numerous places. The complete set of forums is
> at <URL:http://mail.python.org/>, for example this one is at
><URL:https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list>.

Gmane is often a good place to try:

   http://dir.gmane.org/gmane.comp.python.general

-- 
Grant Edwards               grant.b.edwards        Yow! On the road, ZIPPY
                                  at               is a pinhead without a
                              gmail.com            purpose, but never without
                                                   a POINT.


From blake1024 at gmail.com  Thu Apr 16 10:52:27 2015
From: blake1024 at gmail.com (Blake McBride)
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 2015 07:52:27 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: New to Python - block grouping (spaces)
In-Reply-To: <9fc57fc9-0399-4ff3-882a-d041f02827d8@googlegroups.com>
References: <9fc57fc9-0399-4ff3-882a-d041f02827d8@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <6580b5d5-92f5-4bfa-b1d0-889c69fe82bb@googlegroups.com>

Thanks for all the responses.  I especially like the Pike pointer.  To be clear:

1.  I don't think languages should depend on invisible elements to determine logic.

2.  Having been an employer, it is difficult to force programmers to use any particular editor or style.  Different editors handle tabs and spaces differently.  This is all a bloody nightmare with Python.

3.  Languages that use braces (or the like) can be run through a program beautifier to correct the indentation.  You are just screwed in Python.  So, Python may be a cute language for you to use as an individual, but it is unwieldy in a real development environment.

4.  Language beautifiers used on bracey languages removes all arguments in favor of an off-side language.

Blake McBride


From blake1024 at gmail.com  Thu Apr 16 11:01:45 2015
From: blake1024 at gmail.com (Blake McBride)
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 2015 08:01:45 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: New to Python - block grouping (spaces)
In-Reply-To: <6580b5d5-92f5-4bfa-b1d0-889c69fe82bb@googlegroups.com>
References: <9fc57fc9-0399-4ff3-882a-d041f02827d8@googlegroups.com>
 <6580b5d5-92f5-4bfa-b1d0-889c69fe82bb@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <fb70dc56-579e-478f-bcc3-ed95b367713f@googlegroups.com>

As a side note, I bought a few books on Python from Amazon for use on my Kindle.  At least one of the books has the formatting for the Kindle messed up rendering the meaning of the program useless.

Case in point.

Blake


From rosuav at gmail.com  Thu Apr 16 11:03:51 2015
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 2015 01:03:51 +1000
Subject: New to Python - block grouping (spaces)
In-Reply-To: <6580b5d5-92f5-4bfa-b1d0-889c69fe82bb@googlegroups.com>
References: <9fc57fc9-0399-4ff3-882a-d041f02827d8@googlegroups.com>
 <6580b5d5-92f5-4bfa-b1d0-889c69fe82bb@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmqpPfoKmovqXq_vZAHaF6ZR7P5uXDT9rHZMVS34h0Q4rg@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Apr 17, 2015 at 12:52 AM, Blake McBride <blake1024 at gmail.com> wrote:
> 2.  Having been an employer, it is difficult to force programmers to use any particular editor or style.  Different editors handle tabs and spaces differently.  This is all a bloody nightmare with Python.
>
> 3.  Languages that use braces (or the like) can be run through a program beautifier to correct the indentation.  You are just screwed in Python.  So, Python may be a cute language for you to use as an individual, but it is unwieldy in a real development environment.
>

If you're prepared to run a beautifier on your employees' code, you
should have no problem requiring that they adopt a syntactically-legal
style. You're already throwing away any option of indentation not
matching the physical structure of the code, so why not simply have
the indentation define the physical structure?

ChrisA


From jon+usenet at unequivocal.co.uk  Thu Apr 16 11:05:02 2015
From: jon+usenet at unequivocal.co.uk (Jon Ribbens)
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 2015 15:05:02 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: New to Python - block grouping (spaces)
References: <9fc57fc9-0399-4ff3-882a-d041f02827d8@googlegroups.com>
 <6580b5d5-92f5-4bfa-b1d0-889c69fe82bb@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <slrnmivjuo.bgs.jon+usenet@frosty.unequivocal.co.uk>

On 2015-04-16, Blake McBride <blake1024 at gmail.com> wrote:
> 2.  Having been an employer, it is difficult to force programmers to
> use any particular editor or style.  Different editors handle tabs
> and spaces differently.  This is all a bloody nightmare with Python.
>
> 3.  Languages that use braces (or the like) can be run through a
> program beautifier to correct the indentation.  You are just screwed
> in Python.  So, Python may be a cute language for you to use as an
> individual, but it is unwieldy in a real development environment.

Yes, you are quite right - no employers have ever used Python, nor
has anybody ever used Python in a "real development environment".
The issues you raise are novel and have not been thought about before.


From memilanuk at gmail.com  Thu Apr 16 11:05:52 2015
From: memilanuk at gmail.com (memilanuk)
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 2015 08:05:52 -0700
Subject: New to Python - block grouping (spaces)
In-Reply-To: <6580b5d5-92f5-4bfa-b1d0-889c69fe82bb@googlegroups.com>
References: <9fc57fc9-0399-4ff3-882a-d041f02827d8@googlegroups.com>
 <6580b5d5-92f5-4bfa-b1d0-889c69fe82bb@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <mgoj4i$lpo$1@ger.gmane.org>

On 04/16/2015 07:52 AM, Blake McBride wrote:
> Thanks for all the responses.  I especially like the Pike pointer.
> To be clear:
>
> 1.  I don't think languages should depend on invisible elements to
> determine logic.
>
> 2.  Having been an employer, it is difficult to force programmers to
> use any particular editor or style.  Different editors handle tabs
> and spaces differently.  This is all a bloody nightmare with Python.
>
> 3.  Languages that use braces (or the like) can be run through a
> program beautifier to correct the indentation.  You are just screwed
> in Python.  So, Python may be a cute language for you to use as an
> individual, but it is unwieldy in a real development environment.
>
> 4.  Language beautifiers used on bracey languages removes all
> arguments in favor of an off-side language.
>
> Blake McBride
>

While I certainly don't have your background or depth of experience...
do you really think that over the last 20 odd years that Python has
been around that #2 and #3 have not been hammered out?

Honestly, this is starting to smell more and more like a troll...

-- 
Shiny!  Let's be bad guys.

Reach me @ memilanuk (at) gmail dot com



From breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk  Thu Apr 16 11:05:58 2015
From: breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk (Mark Lawrence)
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 2015 16:05:58 +0100
Subject: New to Python - block grouping (spaces)
In-Reply-To: <6580b5d5-92f5-4bfa-b1d0-889c69fe82bb@googlegroups.com>
References: <9fc57fc9-0399-4ff3-882a-d041f02827d8@googlegroups.com>
 <6580b5d5-92f5-4bfa-b1d0-889c69fe82bb@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <mgoj4s$ltp$1@ger.gmane.org>

On 16/04/2015 15:52, Blake McBride wrote:

> So, Python may be a cute language for you to use as an individual, but it is unwieldy in a real development environment.
>

Thanks for this, one of the funniest comments I've read here in years. 
It's good to see that new people share the humourous side of the Python 
programming culture.  Long may it continue.

-- 
My fellow Pythonistas, ask not what our language can do for you, ask
what you can do for our language.

Mark Lawrence



From lconrad at go2france.com  Thu Apr 16 11:21:27 2015
From: lconrad at go2france.com (lconrad at go2france.com)
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 2015 10:21:27 -0500
Subject: New to Python - block grouping (spaces)
Message-ID: <552fd377.8377.2c195500.62f47f3c@go2france.com>

>
> On Fri, Apr 17, 2015 at 12:52 AM, Blake McBride <blake1024 at gmail.com> 
> wrote:
>>
>> 2.  Having been an employer, it is difficult to force programmers to 
>> use any particular editor or style.  Different editors handle tabs and 
>> spaces differently.  This is all a bloody nightmare with Python.
>>
>> 3.  Languages that use braces (or the like) can be run through a 
>> program beautifier to correct the indentation.  You are just screwed 
>> in Python.  So, Python may be a cute language for you to use as an 
>> individual, but it is unwieldy in a real development environment.
>>
>
> If you're prepared to run a beautifier on your employees' code, you
> should have no problem requiring that they adopt a syntactically-legal
> style. You're already throwing away any option of indentation not
> matching the physical structure of the code, so why not simply have
> the indentation define the physical structure?
>
> ChrisA

The war of the whitespaces rages on among programmers

http://www.itworld.com/article/2909268/the-war-of-the-whitespaces-rages-on-among-programmers.html?phint=newt%3Ditworld_today&phint=idg_eid%3D997c2c0be180eb9bc32d6211712db4cb#tk.ITWNLE_nlt_today_2015-04-16
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/attachments/20150416/4bfada3c/attachment.html>

From invalid at invalid.invalid  Thu Apr 16 11:21:58 2015
From: invalid at invalid.invalid (Grant Edwards)
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 2015 15:21:58 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: New to Python - block grouping (spaces)
References: <9fc57fc9-0399-4ff3-882a-d041f02827d8@googlegroups.com>
 <6580b5d5-92f5-4bfa-b1d0-889c69fe82bb@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <mgok2m$mf5$1@reader1.panix.com>

On 2015-04-16, Blake McBride <blake1024 at gmail.com> wrote:

> Thanks for all the responses.  I especially like the Pike pointer. 
> To be clear:
>
> 1.  I don't think languages should depend on invisible elements to
>     determine logic.

I had the same attitude when I first tried Python 15 years ago. But,
Python was the only free language implimentation I could find for
Windows that had all the features to allow me to easily write a
program to suck e-mail messages out of Outlook via DCOM and shove them
over to an SMTP server.

After a few days of use, I was a firm believer in semantically
significant indentation (and have been ever since).

> 2.  Having been an employer, it is difficult to force programmers to
>     use any particular editor or style.  Different editors handle tabs
>     and spaces differently.  This is all a bloody nightmare with Python.

It's an even _worse_ problem for C, PHP, Javascript, et al.  At least
Python requires some semblance of order and method.  Those other
languages allow complete anarchy, and any time developer A has to
read/edit code from devloper B, it wastes all sorts of time.

> 3.  Languages that use braces (or the like) can be run through a
>     program beautifier to correct the indentation.

With Python, there's no need.  The indenation is _already_ correct.

>     You are just screwed in Python.  So, Python may be a cute
>     language for you to use as an individual, but it is unwieldy in a
>     real development environment.

Ah.  That explains why Google uses it so much.

> 4.  Language beautifiers used on bracey languages removes all
>     arguments in favor of an off-side language.

As trolls go, I don't think this rates much above a C-.

-- 
Grant Edwards               grant.b.edwards        Yow! VICARIOUSLY experience
                                  at               some reason to LIVE!!
                              gmail.com            


From steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info  Thu Apr 16 13:10:01 2015
From: steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 2015 03:10:01 +1000
Subject: New to Python - block grouping (spaces)
References: <9fc57fc9-0399-4ff3-882a-d041f02827d8@googlegroups.com>
 <552f4d67$0$2907$c3e8da3$76491128@news.astraweb.com>
 <ZuMXw.265846$lV1.201190@fx05.am4>
Message-ID: <552fecea$0$13006$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

On Thu, 16 Apr 2015 08:51 pm, BartC wrote:

> On 16/04/2015 06:49, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
>> On Thursday 16 April 2015 14:07, Blake McBride wrote:
> 
>>> Is there a utility that will allow me to write Python-like code that
>>> includes some block delimiter that I can see, that converts the code
>>> into
>>> runnable Python code?  If so, where can I find it?
> 
>> No more bugs from accidentally forgetting to use optional braces!
> 
> You get bugs instead from mistakenly using the wrong indentation or
> losing the correct indentation (accidentally pressing the wrong key for
> example).

That's nothing! Python gives you absolutely no protection from accidentally
typing:


    x += 1

when you actually wanted:

   y -= 2


And there there was the time I edited some code written by my boss. I
intended to write a comment:

    # FIXME: this function is a little slow and should be optimized.

but I hit the wrong key a couple of times and wrote:

    # This is a steaming pile of guano written by a drooling
    # moron who shouldn't be allowed near a computer. It needs 
    # to be deleted with prejudice, and the hard drive and all 
    # backup tapes set on fire just to be sure.


As I'm sure you will agree, it is an easy mistake to make.


I'm not impressed by arguments "braces protect you from accidentally hitting
tab too many times (or too few)". Um, okay. Don't people read their own
code? How do you not notice that you've indented it wrongly?

To my mind, the argument from "hitting tab too many times" is like tying a
double-bed mattress to your head in case an eagle flying overhead drops a
tortoise on your head.


The great thing about Off-side rule languages like Python is that the
structure of code is easy to see:


code code code code code code code 
    code 
code code code 
    code code code 
        code code code 
    code 
        code
            code
                code code code 
                    code code
                code code 
                    code code
    code
code


while braces without indentation are horribly opaque:

code code code code code code code { code } code code code { code 
code code { code code code } code { code { code { code code code
{ code code } code code { code code } } } } code } code



It's true that if a tool mangles your source code and deletes all your
indentation, you cannot mechanically fix the problem without understanding
the intent of the source code. But if a tool mangles your source code by
deleting words starting with "w", the same applies. Don't use broken tools.



-- 
Steven



From steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info  Thu Apr 16 13:41:19 2015
From: steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 2015 03:41:19 +1000
Subject: New to Python - block grouping (spaces)
References: <9fc57fc9-0399-4ff3-882a-d041f02827d8@googlegroups.com>
 <6580b5d5-92f5-4bfa-b1d0-889c69fe82bb@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <552ff43f$0$12982$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

On Fri, 17 Apr 2015 12:52 am, Blake McBride wrote:

> Thanks for all the responses.  I especially like the Pike pointer.  To be
> clear:
> 
> 1.  I don't think languages should depend on invisible elements to
> determine logic.

Icompletelyagreethatinvisibleelementsareterribleandalllanguagesshouldeliminatethemcompletely.Anythingelsewillharmreadabilityandmakesitmuchhardertofollowthelogic.


> 2.  Having been an employer, it is difficult to force programmers to use
> any particular editor or style.  Different editors handle tabs and spaces
> differently.  This is all a bloody nightmare with Python.


Do you really expect us to believe for a microsecond that the choice
between "4 spaces" or "tab" is worse than the C brace wars?

If you, as an employer, cannot get your programmers to follow your in-house
style requirements, then what instructions can you get them to follow? Do
they even bother to show up? Other than on "lunch is on the boss" day?



-- 
Steven



From breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk  Thu Apr 16 13:46:49 2015
From: breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk (Mark Lawrence)
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 2015 18:46:49 +0100
Subject: New to Python - block grouping (spaces)yhoni
In-Reply-To: <V0PXw.267129$UV7.31380@fx27.am4>
References: <9fc57fc9-0399-4ff3-882a-d041f02827d8@googlegroups.com>	<mgnpcg$22i$1@speranza.aioe.org>
 <552F772B.8030201@rece.vub.ac.be>	<CAPTjJmoeN1EYGmNW4ssfSBMhhAjwtbfeQnEbFxOKxNARL7VizA@mail.gmail.com>	<mailman.334.1429178988.12925.python-list@python.org>	<552f9264$0$11092$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>	<mailman.336.1429183861.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <mgocqk$o11$1@speranza.aioe.org> <V0PXw.267129$UV7.31380@fx27.am4>
Message-ID: <mgosie$u2d$1@ger.gmane.org>

On 16/04/2015 14:44, BartC wrote:
>
> * I modify code a lot, adding and removing extra nested blocks all the
> time. My editor can't indent or un-indent blocks without a lot of manual
> typing. With block-delimited schemes, this isn't an issue, as temporary
> lack of correct indentation isn't crucial.
>

The year is 2015, not 1520.  Get an editor that can indent and dedent 
code, there's tens if not hundreds of the things, IDLE included.

-- 
My fellow Pythonistas, ask not what our language can do for you, ask
what you can do for our language.

Mark Lawrence



From python.list at tim.thechases.com  Thu Apr 16 13:49:05 2015
From: python.list at tim.thechases.com (Tim Chase)
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 2015 12:49:05 -0500
Subject: New to Python - block grouping (spaces)
In-Reply-To: <552fecea$0$13006$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
References: <9fc57fc9-0399-4ff3-882a-d041f02827d8@googlegroups.com>
 <552f4d67$0$2907$c3e8da3$76491128@news.astraweb.com>
 <ZuMXw.265846$lV1.201190@fx05.am4>
 <552fecea$0$13006$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <20150416124905.30103e33@bigbox.christie.dr>

On 2015-04-17 03:10, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> And there there was the time I edited some code written by my boss.
> I intended to write a comment:
> 
>     # FIXME: this function is a little slow and should be optimized.
> 
> but I hit the wrong key a couple of times and wrote:
> 
>     # This is a steaming pile of guano written by a drooling
>     # moron who shouldn't be allowed near a computer. It needs 
>     # to be deleted with prejudice, and the hard drive and all 
>     # backup tapes set on fire just to be sure.
> 
> As I'm sure you will agree, it is an easy mistake to make.

Phew, glad I'm not the only one to do that.  Fortunately, I had one
of those code-reformatters the OP talks about, and it fixed the
mistake for me. :-)

-tkc





From rustompmody at gmail.com  Thu Apr 16 13:59:44 2015
From: rustompmody at gmail.com (Rustom Mody)
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 2015 10:59:44 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: New to Python - block grouping (spaces)
In-Reply-To: <9fc57fc9-0399-4ff3-882a-d041f02827d8@googlegroups.com>
References: <9fc57fc9-0399-4ff3-882a-d041f02827d8@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <a1e88f74-8ec0-4a2a-991e-71c3586e266d@googlegroups.com>

On Thursday, April 16, 2015 at 9:37:57 AM UTC+5:30, Blake McBride wrote:
> Greetings,
> 
> I am new to Python.  I am sorry for beating what is probably a dead horse but 
> I checked the net and couldn't find the answer to my question.

Kudos for making dead horses fly [33 posts in 13 hours and going strong]


From alister.nospam.ware at ntlworld.com  Thu Apr 16 14:03:17 2015
From: alister.nospam.ware at ntlworld.com (alister)
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 2015 18:03:17 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: New to Python - block grouping (spaces)yhoni
References: <9fc57fc9-0399-4ff3-882a-d041f02827d8@googlegroups.com>
 <mgnpcg$22i$1@speranza.aioe.org> <552F772B.8030201@rece.vub.ac.be>
 <CAPTjJmoeN1EYGmNW4ssfSBMhhAjwtbfeQnEbFxOKxNARL7VizA@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.334.1429178988.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <552f9264$0$11092$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
 <mailman.336.1429183861.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <mgocqk$o11$1@speranza.aioe.org> <V0PXw.267129$UV7.31380@fx27.am4>
Message-ID: <mgoth5$7i0$1@speranza.aioe.org>

On Thu, 16 Apr 2015 14:44:15 +0100, BartC wrote:

> On 16/04/2015 14:18, alister wrote:
>> On Thu, 16 Apr 2015 13:07:22 +0200, Antoon Pardon wrote:
> 
>>> Nobody is argueing for arbitrary indentation.
>>
>> May I suggest that you give it a try for a month, perhaps re-writing a
>> small program you already have in a pythonic style (don't simply write
>> c in python) & see if your opinion changes.
> 
> You mean try writing pure Python for a month? Yes, you can get used to
> anything. But that doesn't take away from the issues that some people
> have with its indentation. In my case, that would be the following
> (apart from the extra fragility of the code which you can't argue with):

code fragility? google "goto fail", this could not have happened with 
python.
he try it suggestion was not to get you get used to it but to give you 
enough experience to show that your perceived problems are actually no 
existent FUD

> 
> * I need some closure, some indication of where the end of a block is.
> Otherwise how do I know I'm looking at the last statement, or whether
> there is more on the next page or further down the screen?

oh please if you are not going to look at the code you cant tell in a 
brace delimited language either & if you do open your eyes to scan the 
code it is easier to see in python because the indentation is 100% 
trustworthy where as with C you have to be careful that a brace has not 
been inserted somewhere unexpected.
> 
> Even when I can see what follows the block, I can only infer that this
> is the end of the block because I eventually hit some other arbitrary
> construct with less indentation, not something specifically signalling
> the end of /that/ block.

it is not arbitrary the un-indent is the signal 
> 
> (This would come up when using copy&paste for example. If I've
> accidentally left out the last line of a block, I won't know about it
> until the code later doesn't work.)


> * I modify code a lot, adding and removing extra nested blocks all the
> time. My editor can't indent or un-indent blocks without a lot of manual
> typing.

get a decent editor designed fro programming

> With block-delimited schemes, this isn't an issue, as temporary
> lack of correct indentation isn't crucial.
> 
> (However, given a choice of only brace-delimited blocks, and Python
> style, I'd go for the latter! I have a longer list of complaints for
> C-style braces.)


so you are already 90% of the way there & just need to grasp the fact 
that the braces are redundant if you (sensibly) stick to a rigid 
formatting style


-- 
Kiss your keyboard goodbye!


From alister.nospam.ware at ntlworld.com  Thu Apr 16 14:04:56 2015
From: alister.nospam.ware at ntlworld.com (alister)
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 2015 18:04:56 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: New to Python - block grouping (spaces)yhoni
References: <9fc57fc9-0399-4ff3-882a-d041f02827d8@googlegroups.com>
 <mgnpcg$22i$1@speranza.aioe.org> <552F772B.8030201@rece.vub.ac.be>
 <CAPTjJmoeN1EYGmNW4ssfSBMhhAjwtbfeQnEbFxOKxNARL7VizA@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.334.1429178988.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <552f9264$0$11092$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
 <mailman.336.1429183861.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <mgocqk$o11$1@speranza.aioe.org>
 <mailman.347.1429193356.12925.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <mgotk8$7i0$2@speranza.aioe.org>

On Thu, 16 Apr 2015 16:09:13 +0200, Antoon Pardon wrote:

> On 04/16/2015 03:18 PM, alister wrote:
> 
> 
>>> As is argueing against a real position instead of making something up.
>>> Nobody is argueing for arbitrary indentation.
>> May I suggest that you give it a try for a month, perhaps re-writing a
>> small program you already have in a pythonic style (don't simply write
>> c in python) & see if your opinion changes.
>>
>> if not then other suggestions that python is not a language of choice
>> for you may be appropriate.
>>
>> be warned you may find it creates (or increases ) an extreme dislike
>> for C & other languages that require braces & semicolons, it did for me
>> (especially the semi-colon!)
> 
> I think you are mistaking me for someone else. I have been using python
> since before 2000. I went from not liking the forced indentation to not
> being bothered with it to not liking it again.
> 
> I also think that one doesn't need to discard a language just because
> one doesn't like this particular feature. One can think the other
> characteristics of the language are positive enough one can live with
> this small annoyance.

This suggestion was aimed at the Original poster.



-- 
Your mode of life will be changed for the better because of new 
developments.


From alister.nospam.ware at ntlworld.com  Thu Apr 16 14:08:51 2015
From: alister.nospam.ware at ntlworld.com (alister)
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 2015 18:08:51 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: New to Python - block grouping (spaces)
References: <9fc57fc9-0399-4ff3-882a-d041f02827d8@googlegroups.com>
 <6580b5d5-92f5-4bfa-b1d0-889c69fe82bb@googlegroups.com>
 <fb70dc56-579e-478f-bcc3-ed95b367713f@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <mgotrj$7i0$3@speranza.aioe.org>

On Thu, 16 Apr 2015 08:01:45 -0700, Blake McBride wrote:

> As a side note, I bought a few books on Python from Amazon for use on my
> Kindle.  At least one of the books has the formatting for the Kindle
> messed up rendering the meaning of the program useless.
> 
> Case in point.
> 
> Blake

A poor quality book
You can write bad books for any language

I do sympathise as this is something you cannot easily tell before 
purchase (although there as so many good guides available on line I don't 
think there is much benefit in buying a book)


-- 
Talking much about oneself can also be a means to conceal oneself.
		-- Friedrich Nietzsche


From memilanuk at gmail.com  Thu Apr 16 14:28:46 2015
From: memilanuk at gmail.com (memilanuk)
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 2015 11:28:46 -0700
Subject: New to Python - block grouping (spaces)
In-Reply-To: <mgotrj$7i0$3@speranza.aioe.org>
References: <9fc57fc9-0399-4ff3-882a-d041f02827d8@googlegroups.com>
 <6580b5d5-92f5-4bfa-b1d0-889c69fe82bb@googlegroups.com>
 <fb70dc56-579e-478f-bcc3-ed95b367713f@googlegroups.com>
 <mgotrj$7i0$3@speranza.aioe.org>
Message-ID: <mgov0v$8nj$1@ger.gmane.org>

On 04/16/2015 11:08 AM, alister wrote:
> On Thu, 16 Apr 2015 08:01:45 -0700, Blake McBride wrote:
>
>> As a side note, I bought a few books on Python from Amazon for use on my
>> Kindle.  At least one of the books has the formatting for the Kindle
>> messed up rendering the meaning of the program useless.
>>
>> Case in point.
>>
>> Blake
>
> A poor quality book
> You can write bad books for any language
>
> I do sympathise as this is something you cannot easily tell before
> purchase (although there as so many good guides available on line I don't
> think there is much benefit in buying a book)

Some publishers are worse about this than others.  Packt 
(www.packtpub.com) has some decent material, but absolutely incompetent 
when it comes to formatting python code in a Kindle .mobi file.  I don't 
think I've ever seen *any* errata published for any of their books.  I 
long since decided that anything I see from Packt that I want to read... 
I might find it on Amazon, but I go to Packt's site and purchase the 
PDF.  They have a harder time screwing that up, apparently.

O'Reilly, on the other hand, gets it right.  Period.


-- 
Shiny!  Let's be bad guys.

Reach me @ memilanuk (at) gmail dot com



From rgaddi at technologyhighland.invalid  Thu Apr 16 14:45:32 2015
From: rgaddi at technologyhighland.invalid (Rob Gaddi)
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 2015 18:45:32 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: New to Python - block grouping (spaces)
References: <9fc57fc9-0399-4ff3-882a-d041f02827d8@googlegroups.com>
 <a1e88f74-8ec0-4a2a-991e-71c3586e266d@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <mgp00c$k1o$1@dont-email.me>

On Thu, 16 Apr 2015 10:59:44 -0700, Rustom Mody wrote:

> On Thursday, April 16, 2015 at 9:37:57 AM UTC+5:30, Blake McBride wrote:
>> Greetings,
>> 
>> I am new to Python.  I am sorry for beating what is probably a dead
>> horse but I checked the net and couldn't find the answer to my
>> question.
> 
> Kudos for making dead horses fly [33 posts in 13 hours and going strong]

Catapult and a dream, man.  Catapult and a dream.



-- 
Rob Gaddi, Highland Technology -- www.highlandtechnology.com
Email address domain is currently out of order.  See above to fix.


From ron3200 at gmail.com  Thu Apr 16 14:54:23 2015
From: ron3200 at gmail.com (Ron Adam)
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 2015 14:54:23 -0400
Subject: New to Python - block grouping (spaces)
In-Reply-To: <552ff43f$0$12982$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
References: <9fc57fc9-0399-4ff3-882a-d041f02827d8@googlegroups.com>
 <6580b5d5-92f5-4bfa-b1d0-889c69fe82bb@googlegroups.com>
 <552ff43f$0$12982$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <mgp0h0$234$1@ger.gmane.org>



On 04/16/2015 01:41 PM, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
>> >2.  Having been an employer, it is difficult to force programmers to use
>> >any particular editor or style.  Different editors handle tabs and spaces
>> >differently.  This is all a bloody nightmare with Python.
>
> Do you really expect us to believe for a microsecond that the choice
> between "4 spaces" or "tab" is worse than the C brace wars?

You know I've never thought braces where the problem in a language, and in 
python, not having them isn't a problem either.

The reason I dislike C is due to the amount of boiler plate and the low 
level of code, which requires managing memory, declaring prototypes and 
including headers.  All of which I think are much more troublesome and 
harder to get right than any amount of braces.

Both sides have advantages, but Python's design is meant to represent code 
in an easier to see and read way.  Representing blocks by indention is 
consistent with that.  (And so is outlines in written language.)

I could equally like a language where blocks are literal code objects that 
can be assigned to names.  In that case the block delimiters would be 
consistent with that language design and that would be perfectly fine to 
me.  The code would be representing what it does in an expected and useful way.

    block = {statement_1; statement_2; ...}

The cases in between seem a bit unclean to me however.  Where braces are 
used to define blocks that aren't exposed.  I think it's ok, but it also 
seems a bit unclean to me.  Adding more noise than necessary to the code. 
But I understand at some time, when a language was designed it may have 
been that it made parsing the language simpler.  (it does.)  Or it may have 
just been the language designers preference at that time.  <shrug>

But still, I think the whole braces are good/evil is over stated.  There 
are lots of more important things in languages to consider.

Cheers,
    Ron






From storchaka at gmail.com  Thu Apr 16 15:14:00 2015
From: storchaka at gmail.com (Serhiy Storchaka)
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 2015 22:14:00 +0300
Subject: New to Python - block grouping (spaces)
In-Reply-To: <552f4d67$0$2907$c3e8da3$76491128@news.astraweb.com>
References: <9fc57fc9-0399-4ff3-882a-d041f02827d8@googlegroups.com>
 <552f4d67$0$2907$c3e8da3$76491128@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <mgp1lp$lpd$1@ger.gmane.org>

On 16.04.15 08:49, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> I'm not aware of any pre-processor tools for Python that will syntactically
> check that added braces match the indentation. Such a tool would be
> unPythonic: if they match, the braces are redundant and are not needed, and
> if they do not match, then the compiler (or preprocessor) should not guess
> whether the indentation is right or the braces are right. But if you enforce
> the rule that braces must match indentation, then the braces are redundant!
>
> If you find such a preprocessor, or write your own, feel free to use it. But
> you won't get any respect from experienced Python programmers: we use Python
> in part to get away from braces, we're not chomping at the bit to put them
> back in.

https://hg.python.org/cpython/raw-file/default/Tools/scripts/pindent.py




From ben+python at benfinney.id.au  Thu Apr 16 16:10:30 2015
From: ben+python at benfinney.id.au (Ben Finney)
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 2015 06:10:30 +1000
Subject: EditorConfig for cross-editor consistent code style (was: New to
 Python - block grouping (spaces))
References: <9fc57fc9-0399-4ff3-882a-d041f02827d8@googlegroups.com>
 <6580b5d5-92f5-4bfa-b1d0-889c69fe82bb@googlegroups.com>
 <CAPTjJmqpPfoKmovqXq_vZAHaF6ZR7P5uXDT9rHZMVS34h0Q4rg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <85iocvu955.fsf_-_@benfinney.id.au>

Chris Angelico <rosuav at gmail.com> writes:

> If you're prepared to run a beautifier on your employees' code, you
> should have no problem requiring that they adopt a syntactically-legal
> style.

For teams with a mixture of text editors in use, there are even tools
nowadays to help everyone's text editor enforce consistency of the
fundamentals in the code.

One which is ready now and already widely adopted is EditorConfig:

    EditorConfig helps developers define and maintain consistent coding
    styles between different editors and IDEs. The EditorConfig project
    consists of a file format for defining coding styles and a
    collection of text editor plugins that enable editors to read the
    file format and adhere to defined styles. EditorConfig files are
    easily readable and they work nicely with version control systems.

    <URL:http://editorconfig.org/>

-- 
 \        ?I was in Las Vegas, at the roulette table, having a furious |
  `\     argument over what I considered to be an odd number.? ?Steven |
_o__)                                                           Wright |
Ben Finney



From bc at freeuk.com  Thu Apr 16 17:04:35 2015
From: bc at freeuk.com (BartC)
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 2015 22:04:35 +0100
Subject: New to Python - block grouping (spaces)
In-Reply-To: <552fecea$0$13006$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
References: <9fc57fc9-0399-4ff3-882a-d041f02827d8@googlegroups.com>
 <552f4d67$0$2907$c3e8da3$76491128@news.astraweb.com>
 <ZuMXw.265846$lV1.201190@fx05.am4>
 <552fecea$0$13006$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <JtVXw.225766$nQ7.6316@fx42.am4>

On 16/04/2015 18:10, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> On Thu, 16 Apr 2015 08:51 pm, BartC wrote:
>
>> On 16/04/2015 06:49, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
>>> On Thursday 16 April 2015 14:07, Blake McBride wrote:
>>
>>>> Is there a utility that will allow me to write Python-like code that
>>>> includes some block delimiter that I can see, that converts the code
>>>> into
>>>> runnable Python code?  If so, where can I find it?
>>
>>> No more bugs from accidentally forgetting to use optional braces!
>>
>> You get bugs instead from mistakenly using the wrong indentation or
>> losing the correct indentation (accidentally pressing the wrong key for
>> example).
>
> That's nothing! Python gives you absolutely no protection from accidentally
> typing:
>
>
>      x += 1
>
> when you actually wanted:
>
>     y -= 2

>
> As I'm sure you will agree, it is an easy mistake to make.

I meant hitting Backspace or Delete.

But also, sometimes you post code to Usenet and you find leading tabs 
have been stripped out. With Python code, that's problematical.

> I'm not impressed by arguments "braces protect you from accidentally hitting
> tab too many times (or too few)". Um, okay. Don't people read their own
> code? How do you not notice that you've indented it wrongly?

Take:

  if cond:
     stmt1
     stmt2
     stmt3

and:

  if cond:
     stmt1
     stmt2
  stmt3

which one is correct? Is there a tab too many, or one too few? Or two 
too many? Now, much as I dislike C-style braces, at least it is a little 
more resilient:

  if (cond) {
     stmt1;
     stmt2;
  stmt3;
  }

or:

  if (cond) {
     stmt1;
     stmt2;
  }
     stmt3;

One 'if' clearly has three statements, and the other has two, and you 
are confident enough to fix the tabbing errors without consequences.

> while braces without indentation are horribly opaque:
>
> code code code code code code code { code } code code code { code
> code code { code code code } code { code { code { code code code
> { code code } code code { code code } } } } code } code

It seems to work well enough with expressions:

  x = (a * (b+c) * d) / e

-- 
Bartc


From Seymore4Head at Hotmail.invalid  Thu Apr 16 17:15:49 2015
From: Seymore4Head at Hotmail.invalid (Seymore4Head)
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 2015 17:15:49 -0400
Subject: Great Math Mystery
Message-ID: <si90ja55bdlt93020ou2v1ferp5sojitne@4ax.com>

I am guessing that a few here might find this program interesting.
http://video.pbs.org/video/2365464997/
--
In an altercation with the police, complying with their orders greatly increases your chances of survival.


From steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info  Thu Apr 16 20:47:28 2015
From: steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 2015 10:47:28 +1000
Subject: Great Math Mystery
References: <si90ja55bdlt93020ou2v1ferp5sojitne@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <55305821$0$13003$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

On Fri, 17 Apr 2015 07:15 am, Seymore4Head wrote:

> I am guessing that a few here might find this program interesting.
> http://video.pbs.org/video/2365464997/

For the sake of those of us with limited access to the Internet at the
moment (say, we're behind a corporate firewall, or our browser has just
exploded) or simply don't like clicking on mystery links until we have some
idea of what the link is about, could you give us a two sentence summary
that explains why it's relevant to Python?


> In an altercation with the police, complying with their orders greatly
> increases your chances of survival.

Ah, the definition of a police state: where ordinary people, whether
breaking the law or not, are forced by fear of death to obey the police at
all times, whether the police are acting legally or not.

-- 
Steven



From ben+python at benfinney.id.au  Thu Apr 16 20:56:43 2015
From: ben+python at benfinney.id.au (Ben Finney)
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 2015 10:56:43 +1000
Subject: Great Math Mystery
References: <si90ja55bdlt93020ou2v1ferp5sojitne@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <85a8y7tvw4.fsf@benfinney.id.au>

Seymore4Head <Seymore4Head at Hotmail.invalid> writes:

> I am guessing that a few here might find this program interesting.

Without any context to say what it's about or why it's relevant in this
forum, that message is effectively noise. Please take more care to
consider your audience.

-- 
 \        ?You can't have everything; where would you put it?? ?Steven |
  `\                                                            Wright |
_o__)                                                                  |
Ben Finney



From ben.usenet at bsb.me.uk  Thu Apr 16 20:56:47 2015
From: ben.usenet at bsb.me.uk (Ben Bacarisse)
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 2015 01:56:47 +0100
Subject: Great Math Mystery
References: <si90ja55bdlt93020ou2v1ferp5sojitne@4ax.com>
 <55305821$0$13003$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <877ftbefn4.fsf@bsb.me.uk>

Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info> writes:

> On Fri, 17 Apr 2015 07:15 am, Seymore4Head wrote:
>
>> I am guessing that a few here might find this program interesting.
>> http://video.pbs.org/video/2365464997/
>
> For the sake of those of us with limited access to the Internet at the
> moment (say, we're behind a corporate firewall, or our browser has just
> exploded) or simply don't like clicking on mystery links until we have some
> idea of what the link is about, could you give us a two sentence summary
> that explains why it's relevant to Python?

It's a link to a programme titled "The Great Math Mystery -- Is math
invented by humans, or is it the language of the universe?" from Nova.
Nothing very Pythonesque.

<snip>
-- 
Ben.


From python at mrabarnett.plus.com  Thu Apr 16 22:34:51 2015
From: python at mrabarnett.plus.com (Matthew Barnett)
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 2015 03:34:51 +0100
Subject: Great Math Mystery
In-Reply-To: <877ftbefn4.fsf@bsb.me.uk>
References: <si90ja55bdlt93020ou2v1ferp5sojitne@4ax.com>
 <55305821$0$13003$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <877ftbefn4.fsf@bsb.me.uk>
Message-ID: <B8A4C250-9380-4ED4-A8AF-C983DD6653BF@mrabarnett.plus.com>

Do you mean Pythonesque or Pythonic?
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/attachments/20150417/6d70ce55/attachment.html>

From antoon.pardon at rece.vub.ac.be  Fri Apr 17 05:37:54 2015
From: antoon.pardon at rece.vub.ac.be (Antoon Pardon)
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 2015 11:37:54 +0200
Subject: New to Python - block grouping (spaces)
In-Reply-To: <552fecea$0$13006$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
References: <9fc57fc9-0399-4ff3-882a-d041f02827d8@googlegroups.com>
 <552f4d67$0$2907$c3e8da3$76491128@news.astraweb.com>
 <ZuMXw.265846$lV1.201190@fx05.am4>
 <552fecea$0$13006$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <5530D472.80701@rece.vub.ac.be>

Op 16-04-15 om 19:10 schreef Steven D'Aprano:
> On Thu, 16 Apr 2015 08:51 pm, BartC wrote:
>
>> On 16/04/2015 06:49, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
>>> On Thursday 16 April 2015 14:07, Blake McBride wrote:
>>>> Is there a utility that will allow me to write Python-like code that
>>>> includes some block delimiter that I can see, that converts the code
>>>> into
>>>> runnable Python code?  If so, where can I find it?
>>> No more bugs from accidentally forgetting to use optional braces!
>> You get bugs instead from mistakenly using the wrong indentation or
>> losing the correct indentation (accidentally pressing the wrong key for
>> example).
> That's nothing! Python gives you absolutely no protection from accidentally
> typing:
>
>
>     x += 1
>
> when you actually wanted:
>
>    y -= 2

I find this a bit disingenuous. Each time assignment as an expression comes
up, so that it would be possible to have an assignment in a if or while
condition, few of the regulars seem to have a problem with the argument that
the current choice protects against a particular kind of bug.

The fact that braces protect against a kind of bug you care less about,
is just your preference. That doesn't mean a different preference is
somehow worthy of ridicule.

Mistakes of all kinds happen and I see no reason to ridicule someone for
wishing protect against one kind of mistake, while yourself having the
protection you like.

-- 
Antoon Pardon



From fetchinson at googlemail.com  Fri Apr 17 05:47:06 2015
From: fetchinson at googlemail.com (Fetchinson .)
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 2015 11:47:06 +0200
Subject: Great Math Mystery
In-Reply-To: <55305821$0$13003$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
References: <si90ja55bdlt93020ou2v1ferp5sojitne@4ax.com>
 <55305821$0$13003$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <CADjSo4S+v4ke1W1rjoHBeDtRLUcYGKkhG8Za=FWvCkgQ8RVSBA@mail.gmail.com>

>> In an altercation with the police, complying with their orders greatly
>> increases your chances of survival.
>
> Ah, the definition of a police state: where ordinary people, whether
> breaking the law or not, are forced by fear of death to obey the police at
> all times, whether the police are acting legally or not.

I think you are grossly mischaracterizing that sentence of the OP. He
simply makes an observation: in an altercation with the police,
complying with their orders greatly increases your chances of
survival. Is this observation/statement true or false? Based on
empirical data from the past 50 years (in the US and elsewhere) I'd
say it's true by a huge margin.

The OP didn't make any value judgements on this statement whether he
advocates for compliance or not, whether he encourages the
establishment of a police state or not, whether he thinks compliance
is a good thing or not.

For all we know he might be a flaming anarchist with a keen sense of
observing empirical facts.

Cheers,
Daniel



-- 
Psss, psss, put it down! - http://www.cafepress.com/putitdown


From alister.nospam.ware at ntlworld.com  Fri Apr 17 06:23:38 2015
From: alister.nospam.ware at ntlworld.com (alister)
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 2015 10:23:38 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Great Math Mystery
References: <si90ja55bdlt93020ou2v1ferp5sojitne@4ax.com>
 <55305821$0$13003$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <mailman.362.1429264034.12925.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <mgqmva$67s$1@speranza.aioe.org>

On Fri, 17 Apr 2015 11:47:06 +0200, Fetchinson . wrote:

>>> In an altercation with the police, complying with their orders greatly
>>> increases your chances of survival.
>>
>> Ah, the definition of a police state: where ordinary people, whether
>> breaking the law or not, are forced by fear of death to obey the police
>> at all times, whether the police are acting legally or not.
> 
> I think you are grossly mischaracterizing that sentence of the OP. He
> simply makes an observation: in an altercation with the police,
> complying with their orders greatly increases your chances of survival.
> Is this observation/statement true or false? Based on empirical data
> from the past 50 years (in the US and elsewhere) I'd say it's true by a
> huge margin.
> 
> The OP didn't make any value judgements on this statement whether he
> advocates for compliance or not, whether he encourages the establishment
> of a police state or not, whether he thinks compliance is a good thing
> or not.
> 
> For all we know he might be a flaming anarchist with a keen sense of
> observing empirical facts.
> 
> Cheers,
> Daniel

or simply using a fortune cookie program to generate random signatures, 
just ass I do, sometimes the result is quite spooky).

( i just took a look at mine for this post & was pleasantly surprised to 
see it is programming related)


-- 
((lambda (foo) (bar foo)) (baz))


From info at egenix.com  Fri Apr 17 06:43:21 2015
From: info at egenix.com (eGenix Team: M.-A. Lemburg)
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 2015 12:43:21 +0200
Subject: =?UTF-8?Q?ANN:_Python_Meeting_D=c3=bcsseldorf_-_29.04.2015?=
Message-ID: <5530E3C9.9000800@egenix.com>

[This announcement is in German since it targets a local user group
 meeting in D?sseldorf, Germany]

________________________________________________________________________
ANK?NDIGUNG

                     Python Meeting D?sseldorf

                         http://pyddf.de/

       Ein Treffen von Python Enthusiasten und Interessierten
                    in ungezwungener Atmosph?re.

                  Dienstag, 29.04.2015, 18:00 Uhr
          Raum 1, 2.OG im B?rgerhaus Stadtteilzentrum Bilk
        D?sseldorfer Arcaden, Bachstr. 145, 40217 D?sseldorf

Diese Nachricht ist auch online verf?gbar:
http://www.egenix.com/company/news/Python-Meeting-Duesseldorf-2015-04-29

________________________________________________________________________
NEUIGKEITEN

 * Bereits angemeldete Vortr?ge:

   Johannes Spielmann
       "Nachrichtenprotokolle in Python"

   Matthias Endler
       "The State of PyPy"

   Charlie Clark
       "Die Kunst des Nichtstun: Eine Einf?hrung in Profiling"
       "et_xmlfile: Valides XML schreiben mit niedrigem Speicherbedarf"

   Marc-Andre Lemburg
       "SSL in Python 2.7.9"
       "YouTube Feed mit feedparser auswerten"

   Weitere Vortr?ge k?nnen gerne noch angemeldet werden: info at pyddf.de

 * Startzeit und Ort:

   Wir treffen uns um 18:00 Uhr im B?rgerhaus in den D?sseldorfer
   Arcaden.

   Das B?rgerhaus teilt sich den Eingang mit dem Schwimmbad
   und befindet sich an der Seite der Tiefgarageneinfahrt der
   D?sseldorfer Arcaden.

   ?ber dem Eingang steht ein gro?es ?Schwimm?'in Bilk?
   Logo. Hinter der T?r direkt links zu den zwei Aufz?gen,
   dann in den 2. Stock hochfahren. Der Eingang zum Raum 1
   liegt direkt links, wenn man aus dem Aufzug kommt.

   Google Street View: http://bit.ly/11sCfiw

________________________________________________________________________
EINLEITUNG

Das Python Meeting D?sseldorf ist eine regelm??ige Veranstaltung in
D?sseldorf, die sich an Python Begeisterte aus der Region wendet:

 * http://pyddf.de/

Einen guten ?berblick ?ber die Vortr?ge bietet unser YouTube-Kanal,
auf dem wir die Vortr?ge nach den Meetings ver?ffentlichen:

 * http://www.youtube.com/pyddf/

Veranstaltet wird das Meeting von der eGenix.com GmbH, Langenfeld,
in Zusammenarbeit mit Clark Consulting & Research, D?sseldorf:

 * http://www.egenix.com/
 * http://www.clark-consulting.eu/

________________________________________________________________________
PROGRAMM

Das Python Meeting D?sseldorf nutzt eine Mischung aus Open Space
und Lightning Talks, wobei die Gewitter bei uns auch schon mal
20 Minuten dauern k?nnen ;-).

Lightning Talks k?nnen vorher angemeldet werden, oder auch
spontan w?hrend des Treffens eingebracht werden. Ein Beamer mit
XGA Aufl?sung steht zur Verf?gung. Folien bitte als PDF auf USB
Stick mitbringen.

Lightning Talk Anmeldung bitte formlos per EMail an info at pyddf.de

________________________________________________________________________
KOSTENBETEILIGUNG

Das Python Meeting D?sseldorf wird von Python Nutzern f?r Python
Nutzer veranstaltet. Um die Kosten zumindest teilweise zu
refinanzieren, bitten wir die Teilnehmer um einen Beitrag
in H?he von EUR 10,00 inkl. 19% Mwst, Sch?ler und Studenten
zahlen EUR 5,00 inkl. 19% Mwst.

Wir m?chten alle Teilnehmer bitten, den Betrag in bar mitzubringen.

________________________________________________________________________
ANMELDUNG

Da wir nur f?r ca. 20 Personen Sitzpl?tze haben, m?chten wir
bitten, sich per EMail anzumelden. Damit wird keine Verpflichtung
eingegangen. Es erleichtert uns allerdings die Planung.

Meeting Anmeldung bitte formlos per EMail an info at pyddf.de

________________________________________________________________________
WEITERE INFORMATIONEN

Weitere Informationen finden Sie auf der Webseite des Meetings:

    http://pyddf.de/

Mit freundlichen Gr??en,
-- 
Marc-Andre Lemburg
eGenix.com

Professional Python Services directly from the Source  (#1, Apr 17 2015)
>>> Python Projects, Coaching and Consulting ...  http://www.egenix.com/
>>> mxODBC Plone/Zope Database Adapter ...       http://zope.egenix.com/
>>> mxODBC, mxDateTime, mxTextTools ...        http://python.egenix.com/
________________________________________________________________________

::::: Try our mxODBC.Connect Python Database Interface for free ! ::::::

   eGenix.com Software, Skills and Services GmbH  Pastor-Loeh-Str.48
    D-40764 Langenfeld, Germany. CEO Dipl.-Math. Marc-Andre Lemburg
           Registered at Amtsgericht Duesseldorf: HRB 46611
               http://www.egenix.com/company/contact/


From biker at livefirelabs.com  Fri Apr 17 08:18:05 2015
From: biker at livefirelabs.com (biker at livefirelabs.com)
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 2015 07:18:05 -0500
Subject: looking for students to take new online python course at no cost
Message-ID: <1308.1429273085@livefirelabs.com>

 Hi,
 (I apologize if this seems spammy, but I think this is a good
opportunity for beginning python programmers.)
 We are seeking candid feedback on a new python programming online
course for beginners, and will randomly select students (lottery
style/5 new students each month) who are new to python to take the
course at no charge.
 For the course project, students code a web crawler and a simple
search engine front-end to query the results from their crawl (stored
in their personal back-end mysql db).
 Some of the python libraries covered/utilized in the course include
urllib2, BeautifulSoup 4 (bs4), robotparser, numpy and
mysql.connector.
 There is no compiler to install because the student development
environment (used to edit, save and run python program files) is 100%
web-based...meaning, only a web browser is needed to access.
 Here is the link to the sign-up form -
http://www.livefirelabs.com/python-online-course.htm [1]
 ... and details about the course are here -
http://www.livefirelabs.com/learn-python-programming-01.htm [2]
 The next new student selection, as indicated on the sign-up web page,
is May 1, 2015.
 Thanks! biker
 

Links:
------
[1] http://www.livefirelabs.com/python-online-course.htm
[2] http://www.livefirelabs.com/learn-python-programming-01.htm
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/attachments/20150417/a78cff60/attachment.html>

From subhabrata.banerji at gmail.com  Fri Apr 17 09:19:48 2015
From: subhabrata.banerji at gmail.com (subhabrata.banerji at gmail.com)
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 2015 06:19:48 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Converting text file to different encoding.
Message-ID: <6bddf2c0-b0c3-456d-a699-d6c921e6fc73@googlegroups.com>

I am having few files in default encoding. I wanted to change their encodings, 
preferably in "UTF-8", or may be from one encoding to any other encoding. 

I was trying it as follows,

   >>> import codecs
   >>> sourceEncoding = "iso-8859-1"
   >>> targetEncoding = "utf-8"
   >>> source = open("source1","w")
   >>> target = open("target", "w")
   >>> target.write(unicode(source, sourceEncoding).encode(targetEncoding))

but it was giving me error as follows,
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<pyshell#6>", line 1, in <module>
    target.write(unicode(source, sourceEncoding).encode(targetEncoding))
TypeError: coercing to Unicode: need string or buffer, file found

If anybody may kindly suggest how may I solve it. 

Regards,
Subhabrata Banerjee. 
 


From rustompmody at gmail.com  Fri Apr 17 09:31:34 2015
From: rustompmody at gmail.com (Rustom Mody)
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 2015 06:31:34 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Converting text file to different encoding.
In-Reply-To: <6bddf2c0-b0c3-456d-a699-d6c921e6fc73@googlegroups.com>
References: <6bddf2c0-b0c3-456d-a699-d6c921e6fc73@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <c39a759d-3e0f-4101-aa1f-dd776791f04e@googlegroups.com>

On Friday, April 17, 2015 at 6:50:08 PM UTC+5:30, subhabrat... at gmail.com wrote:
> I am having few files in default encoding. I wanted to change their encodings, 
> preferably in "UTF-8", or may be from one encoding to any other encoding. 
> 
> I was trying it as follows,
> 
>    >>> import codecs
>    >>> sourceEncoding = "iso-8859-1"
>    >>> targetEncoding = "utf-8"
>    >>> source = open("source1","w")

Do you want "w" or "r" ?

>    >>> target = open("target", "w")
>    >>> target.write(unicode(source, sourceEncoding).encode(targetEncoding))
> 
> but it was giving me error as follows,
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "<pyshell#6>", line 1, in <module>
>     target.write(unicode(source, sourceEncoding).encode(targetEncoding))
> TypeError: coercing to Unicode: need string or buffer, file found
> 
> If anybody may kindly suggest how may I solve it. 
> 
> Regards,
> Subhabrata Banerjee.



From subhabrata.banerji at gmail.com  Fri Apr 17 09:51:41 2015
From: subhabrata.banerji at gmail.com (subhabrata.banerji at gmail.com)
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 2015 06:51:41 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Converting text file to different encoding.
In-Reply-To: <6bddf2c0-b0c3-456d-a699-d6c921e6fc73@googlegroups.com>
References: <6bddf2c0-b0c3-456d-a699-d6c921e6fc73@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <d921df37-c353-4e3b-8948-12ef05eb2870@googlegroups.com>

On Friday, April 17, 2015 at 6:50:08 PM UTC+5:30, subhabrat... at gmail.com wrote:
> I am having few files in default encoding. I wanted to change their encodings, 
> preferably in "UTF-8", or may be from one encoding to any other encoding. 
> 
> I was trying it as follows,
> 
>    >>> import codecs
>    >>> sourceEncoding = "iso-8859-1"
>    >>> targetEncoding = "utf-8"
>    >>> source = open("source1","w")
>    >>> target = open("target", "w")
>    >>> target.write(unicode(source, sourceEncoding).encode(targetEncoding))
> 
> but it was giving me error as follows,
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "<pyshell#6>", line 1, in <module>
>     target.write(unicode(source, sourceEncoding).encode(targetEncoding))
> TypeError: coercing to Unicode: need string or buffer, file found
> 
> If anybody may kindly suggest how may I solve it. 
> 
> Regards,
> Subhabrata Banerjee.

As an ace coder you may know better than me what I would need, but if you have any roundabout or hint you may give I will practice to see if I may port it. 


From nagarajuusstaffing at gmail.com  Fri Apr 17 10:02:57 2015
From: nagarajuusstaffing at gmail.com (nagaraju thoudoju)
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 2015 07:02:57 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Immediate Hire: Liferay Developer - Remote
Message-ID: <e212bbdc-d1a4-43aa-b2e0-707c34c67690@googlegroups.com>

Hi,



Hope you are doing well,
This is Raj from International Systems Technologies.

Please find the requirement below and let me know you interest on this position on  nagaraju at intsystech.com or feel free to call me on D:908-333-3540 



Please 

Requirement:

Role: Liferay Develoeper

Location: Remote

Rate: $50-55/hr on C2C

1. Java: minimum of 3 years

2. Liferay: minimum of 2 years

3. Total IT experience minimum of 5 years

  

Thanks & Best Regards....?

Raju

International Systems Technologies Inc.

10 Corporate place south.| Suite 203  |

Piscataway, NJ 08854  |

D:908-333-3540 |Fax:732-348-9533|

E-mail: nagaraju at intsystech.com   |

URL: www.intsystech.com


From oscar.j.benjamin at gmail.com  Fri Apr 17 10:05:52 2015
From: oscar.j.benjamin at gmail.com (Oscar Benjamin)
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 2015 15:05:52 +0100
Subject: Converting text file to different encoding.
In-Reply-To: <d921df37-c353-4e3b-8948-12ef05eb2870@googlegroups.com>
References: <6bddf2c0-b0c3-456d-a699-d6c921e6fc73@googlegroups.com>
 <d921df37-c353-4e3b-8948-12ef05eb2870@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <CAHVvXxTbSsCo-GJGYqX4NmFaBoThihES0MPn2VJ2iTng+2CbSQ@mail.gmail.com>

On 17 April 2015 at 14:51,  <subhabrata.banerji at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Friday, April 17, 2015 at 6:50:08 PM UTC+5:30, subhabrat... at gmail.com wrote:
>> I am having few files in default encoding. I wanted to change their encodings,
>> preferably in "UTF-8", or may be from one encoding to any other encoding.
>>
>> I was trying it as follows,
>>
>>    >>> import codecs
>>    >>> sourceEncoding = "iso-8859-1"
>>    >>> targetEncoding = "utf-8"
>>    >>> source = open("source1","w")
>>    >>> target = open("target", "w")
>>    >>> target.write(unicode(source, sourceEncoding).encode(targetEncoding))
>>
>> but it was giving me error as follows,
>> Traceback (most recent call last):
>>   File "<pyshell#6>", line 1, in <module>
>>     target.write(unicode(source, sourceEncoding).encode(targetEncoding))
>> TypeError: coercing to Unicode: need string or buffer, file found

The error comes from `unicode(source, sourceEncoding)` and results
from the fact that source is a file object when it should be a string.
To read the contents of the file as a string just change `source` to
`source.read()`.


Oscar


From jza at oooes.org  Fri Apr 17 10:07:13 2015
From: jza at oooes.org (Alexandro Colorado)
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 2015 10:07:13 -0400
Subject: [Conferences] PyCon Mexico
In-Reply-To: <CAJhDpJA+nStq_BeDZoMcp48NR3FN4HUQyUdd9c4=yrKSNdGS5A@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAJhDpJA+nStq_BeDZoMcp48NR3FN4HUQyUdd9c4=yrKSNdGS5A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAMK9kTgNzvQrW-8-+9US34eGh2+HURuVrsny1umbiqqeqGSDOw@mail.gmail.com>

I did that site, with the hope of rallying the troops to create a Summit in
Cancun about Python. However there were factors that slow the process down
and the project became idle after november.

On Thu, Mar 19, 2015 at 11:05 PM, Python?zame MX <pythonizame at gmail.com>
wrote:

> Hello, my Name is Alex Dzul.
>
> Python /Django Programmer and actively support the Python community in
> Spanish.
>
>
> - http://pythoniza.me
> - https://www.youtube.com/user/pythonizame
> - https://www.youtube.com/user/alexexc2
>
>
> I wonder about the possibility of doing an event here in Mexico (PyCon
> Mexico).
>
> - What do we need to do it in our country?
> - Who is the contact to talk about it?
>
> I recently found this page http://pycon.mx/ but I don't know if it is
> real.
>
>
> Thanks for your attention.
>
> _______________________________________________
> Python Conferences mailing list: Conferences at python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/conferences
>
> This is an open list with open archives; sensitive or confidential
> information should not be discussed here.
>



-- 
Alexandro Colorado
Apache OpenOffice Contributor
882C 4389 3C27 E8DF 41B9  5C4C 1DB7 9D1C 7F4C 2614
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/attachments/20150417/0aad1f98/attachment.html>

From subhabrata.banerji at gmail.com  Fri Apr 17 10:26:57 2015
From: subhabrata.banerji at gmail.com (subhabrata.banerji at gmail.com)
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 2015 07:26:57 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Converting text file to different encoding.
In-Reply-To: <mailman.367.1429279585.12925.python-list@python.org>
References: <6bddf2c0-b0c3-456d-a699-d6c921e6fc73@googlegroups.com>
 <d921df37-c353-4e3b-8948-12ef05eb2870@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.367.1429279585.12925.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <99b92c62-6fe0-4752-b64c-bff909faa6b8@googlegroups.com>

On Friday, April 17, 2015 at 7:36:46 PM UTC+5:30, Oscar Benjamin wrote:
>  wrote:
> > On Friday, April 17, 2015 at 6:50:08 PM UTC+5:30,  wrote:
> >> I am having few files in default encoding. I wanted to change their encodings,
> >> preferably in "UTF-8", or may be from one encoding to any other encoding.
> >>
> >> I was trying it as follows,
> >>
> >>    >>> import codecs
> >>    >>> sourceEncoding = "iso-8859-1"
> >>    >>> targetEncoding = "utf-8"
> >>    >>> source = open("source1","w")
> >>    >>> target = open("target", "w")
> >>    >>> target.write(unicode(source, sourceEncoding).encode(targetEncoding))
> >>
> >> but it was giving me error as follows,
> >> Traceback (most recent call last):
> >>   File "<pyshell#6>", line 1, in <module>
> >>     target.write(unicode(source, sourceEncoding).encode(targetEncoding))
> >> TypeError: coercing to Unicode: need string or buffer, file found
> 
> The error comes from `unicode(source, sourceEncoding)` and results
> from the fact that source is a file object when it should be a string.
> To read the contents of the file as a string just change `source` to
> `source.read()`.
> 
> 
> Oscar

I tried to do as follows,
>>> import codecs
>>> sourceEncoding = "iso-8859-1"
>>> targetEncoding = "utf-8"
>>> source = open("source1","w")
>>> string1="String type"
>>> str1=str(string1)
>>> source.write(str1)
>>> source.close()
>>> target = open("target", "w")
>>> source=open("source1","r")
>>> target.write(unicode(source.read(), sourceEncoding).encode(targetEncoding))
>>>

am I going ok?



From skip.montanaro at gmail.com  Fri Apr 17 10:28:35 2015
From: skip.montanaro at gmail.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 2015 09:28:35 -0500
Subject: Immediate Hire: Liferay Developer - Remote
In-Reply-To: <e212bbdc-d1a4-43aa-b2e0-707c34c67690@googlegroups.com>
References: <e212bbdc-d1a4-43aa-b2e0-707c34c67690@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <CANc-5UzOK5p=UX=SkUbAc9imWFU0VEz41A83hdT=f+3zmU5ZjQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Apr 17, 2015 at 9:02 AM, nagaraju thoudoju <
nagarajuusstaffing at gmail.com> wrote:

> 1. Java: minimum of 3 years
>
> 2. Liferay: minimum of 2 years
>
> 3. Total IT experience minimum of 5 years
>

Raju,

You recently posted another position which had nothing to do with Python. I
replied privately to that post. Others replied here. Please stop posting
inappropriate content for this list. Your posts do nothing but give people
a bad impression of you and the company you represent. I am adding your
company's contact email to this response. Hopefully someone there will
notice and discuss the matter with you.

If what I have written is at all unclear, feel free to call me
(847-971-7098). I would be happy to discuss this with you, especially if it
means you quit spamming python-list at python.org.

Skip Montanaro
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/attachments/20150417/40756901/attachment.html>

From rosuav at gmail.com  Fri Apr 17 10:41:56 2015
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Sat, 18 Apr 2015 00:41:56 +1000
Subject: Converting text file to different encoding.
In-Reply-To: <99b92c62-6fe0-4752-b64c-bff909faa6b8@googlegroups.com>
References: <6bddf2c0-b0c3-456d-a699-d6c921e6fc73@googlegroups.com>
 <d921df37-c353-4e3b-8948-12ef05eb2870@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.367.1429279585.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <99b92c62-6fe0-4752-b64c-bff909faa6b8@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmo3o0rBrP2-51DbtcDYZy-Yo5PxLXpVVFc0R0SmL2nRsA@mail.gmail.com>

On Sat, Apr 18, 2015 at 12:26 AM,  <subhabrata.banerji at gmail.com> wrote:
> I tried to do as follows,
>>>> import codecs
>>>> sourceEncoding = "iso-8859-1"
>>>> targetEncoding = "utf-8"
>>>> source = open("source1","w")
>>>> string1="String type"
>>>> str1=str(string1)
>>>> source.write(str1)
>>>> source.close()
>>>> target = open("target", "w")
>>>> source=open("source1","r")
>>>> target.write(unicode(source.read(), sourceEncoding).encode(targetEncoding))
>>>>
>
> am I going ok?

Here's how I'd do it.

$ python3
>>> with open("source1", encoding="iso-8859-1") as source, open("target", "w", encoding="utf-8") as target:
...     target.write(source.read())

Or maybe this:

$ pike
> Stdio.write_file("target", string_to_utf8(Stdio.read_file("source1")));

So much easier than fiddling around with all those steps you're doing.
I'm not sure what they're all for, anyway; calling str() on a
double-quoted literal isn't usually going to do anything, and I don't
see "from __future__ import unicode_literals" anywhere.

ChrisA


From davea at davea.name  Fri Apr 17 10:48:57 2015
From: davea at davea.name (Dave Angel)
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 2015 10:48:57 -0400
Subject: Converting text file to different encoding.
In-Reply-To: <6bddf2c0-b0c3-456d-a699-d6c921e6fc73@googlegroups.com>
References: <6bddf2c0-b0c3-456d-a699-d6c921e6fc73@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <55311D59.90102@davea.name>

On 04/17/2015 09:19 AM, subhabrata.banerji at gmail.com wrote:
> I am having few files in default encoding. I wanted to change their encodings,
> preferably in "UTF-8", or may be from one encoding to any other encoding.
>

You neglected to specify what Python version this is for.  Other 
information that'd be useful is whether the file size is small enough 
that two copies of it will all fit reasonably into memory.

I'll assume it's version 2.7, because of various clues in your sample 
code.  But if it's version 3.x, it could be substantially easier.

> I was trying it as follows,
>
>     >>> import codecs
>     >>> sourceEncoding = "iso-8859-1"
>     >>> targetEncoding = "utf-8"
>     >>> source = open("source1","w")

mode "w" will truncate the source1 file, leaving you nothing to process. 
  i'd suggest "r"

>     >>> target = open("target", "w")

It's not usually a good idea to use the same variable for both the file 
name and the opened file object.  What if you need later to print the 
name, as in an error message?

>     >>> target.write(unicode(source, sourceEncoding).encode(targetEncoding))

I'd not recommend trying to do so much in one line, at least until you 
understand all the pieces.  Programming is not (usually) a contest to 
write the most obscure code, but rather to make a program you can still 
read and understand six months from now.  And, oh yeah, something that 
will run and accomplish something.

 >
 > but it was giving me error as follows,
 > Traceback (most recent call last):
 >    File "<pyshell#6>", line 1, in <module>
 >      target.write(unicode(source, sourceEncoding).encode(targetEncoding))
 > TypeError: coercing to Unicode: need string or buffer, file found


if you factor this you will discover your error.  Nowhere do you read 
the source file into a byte string.  And that's what is needed for the 
unicode constructor.  Factored, you might have something like:

      encodedtext = source.read()
      text = unicode(source, sourceEncoding)
      reencodedtext = text.encode(targetEncoding)
      target.write(encodedText)

Next, you need to close the files.

     source.close()
     target.close()

There are a number of ways to improve that code, but this is a start.

Improvements:

      Use codecs.open() to open the files, so encoding is handled 
implicitly in the file objects.

      Use with... syntax so that the file closes are implicit

      read and write the files in a loop, a line at a time, so that you 
needn't have all the data in memory (at least twice) at one time.  This 
will also help enormously if you encounter any errors, and want to 
report the location and problem to the user.  It might even turn out to 
be faster.

      You should write non-trivial code in a text file, and run it from 
there.

-- 
DaveA


From marko at pacujo.net  Fri Apr 17 10:51:59 2015
From: marko at pacujo.net (Marko Rauhamaa)
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 2015 17:51:59 +0300
Subject: Converting text file to different encoding.
References: <6bddf2c0-b0c3-456d-a699-d6c921e6fc73@googlegroups.com>
 <d921df37-c353-4e3b-8948-12ef05eb2870@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.367.1429279585.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <99b92c62-6fe0-4752-b64c-bff909faa6b8@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.370.1429281718.12925.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <87oammzu28.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>

Chris Angelico <rosuav at gmail.com>:

> Here's how I'd do it.
>
> $ python3
>>>> with open("source1", encoding="iso-8859-1") as source,
>> open("target", "w", encoding="utf-8") as target:
> ...     target.write(source.read())

You might run out of memory. How about:

========================================================================
#!/usr/bin/env python3
import shutil
shutil.copyfileobj(
    open("source1", encoding="iso-8859-1"),
    open("target", "w", encoding="utf-8"))
========================================================================


Marko


From d at davea.name  Fri Apr 17 10:57:26 2015
From: d at davea.name (Dave Angel)
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 2015 10:57:26 -0400
Subject: Converting text file to different encoding.
In-Reply-To: <55311D59.90102@davea.name>
References: <6bddf2c0-b0c3-456d-a699-d6c921e6fc73@googlegroups.com>
 <55311D59.90102@davea.name>
Message-ID: <55311F56.8050800@davea.name>

On 04/17/2015 10:48 AM, Dave Angel wrote:
> On 04/17/2015 09:19 AM, subhabrata.banerji at gmail.com wrote:

>>     >>> target = open("target", "w")
>
> It's not usually a good idea to use the same variable for both the file
> name and the opened file object.  What if you need later to print the
> name, as in an error message?

Oops, my error.  Somehow my brain didn't notice the quote marks, until I 
reread my own message online.



-- 
DaveA


From steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info  Fri Apr 17 11:03:42 2015
From: steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: Sat, 18 Apr 2015 01:03:42 +1000
Subject: Great Math Mystery
References: <si90ja55bdlt93020ou2v1ferp5sojitne@4ax.com>
 <55305821$0$13003$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <mailman.362.1429264034.12925.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <553120cf$0$12993$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

On Fri, 17 Apr 2015 07:47 pm, Fetchinson . wrote:

>>> In an altercation with the police, complying with their orders greatly
>>> increases your chances of survival.
>>
>> Ah, the definition of a police state: where ordinary people, whether
>> breaking the law or not, are forced by fear of death to obey the police
>> at all times, whether the police are acting legally or not.
> 
> I think you are grossly mischaracterizing that sentence of the OP. He
> simply makes an observation: in an altercation with the police,
> complying with their orders greatly increases your chances of
> survival. Is this observation/statement true or false? Based on
> empirical data from the past 50 years (in the US and elsewhere) I'd
> say it's true by a huge margin.

Which is *exactly my point*.

"Failure to obey arbitrary commands from random police officers, whether
legally justified or not, may carry the penalty of summary execution at the
discretion of the officer" is a defining characteristic of police states.

I made no comment on the OP's intention for making that statement. Perhaps
he was making an ironic comment on the state of US law enforcement; perhaps
he thinks he is being genuinely helpful; perhaps this is his way of mocking
those killed. I don't know. Whether he is a fascist who thinks police
states are wonderful, or a liberal who thinks they are terrible, he
described a police state. Whether he knew it at the time or not.



-- 
Steven



From __peter__ at web.de  Fri Apr 17 11:06:33 2015
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 2015 17:06:33 +0200
Subject: Converting text file to different encoding.
References: <6bddf2c0-b0c3-456d-a699-d6c921e6fc73@googlegroups.com>
 <d921df37-c353-4e3b-8948-12ef05eb2870@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.367.1429279585.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <99b92c62-6fe0-4752-b64c-bff909faa6b8@googlegroups.com>
 <CAPTjJmo3o0rBrP2-51DbtcDYZy-Yo5PxLXpVVFc0R0SmL2nRsA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <mgr7hq$ael$1@ger.gmane.org>

Chris Angelico wrote:

> On Sat, Apr 18, 2015 at 12:26 AM,  <subhabrata.banerji at gmail.com> wrote:
>> I tried to do as follows,
>>>>> import codecs
>>>>> sourceEncoding = "iso-8859-1"
>>>>> targetEncoding = "utf-8"
>>>>> source = open("source1","w")
>>>>> string1="String type"
>>>>> str1=str(string1)
>>>>> source.write(str1)
>>>>> source.close()
>>>>> target = open("target", "w")
>>>>> source=open("source1","r")
>>>>> target.write(unicode(source.read(),
>>>>> sourceEncoding).encode(targetEncoding))
>>>>>
>>
>> am I going ok?
> 
> Here's how I'd do it.
> 
> $ python3
>>>> with open("source1", encoding="iso-8859-1") as source, open("target",
>>>> "w", encoding="utf-8") as target:
> ...     target.write(source.read())

This approach is also viable in Python 2.6 and 2.7 if you use io.open() 
instead of the builtin. 

To limit memory consumption for big files you can replace

target.write(source.read())

with

shutil.copyfileobj(source, target)

If you want to be sure that line endings are preserved open both files with

io.open(..., newline="") # disable newline translation



From torriem at gmail.com  Fri Apr 17 11:44:37 2015
From: torriem at gmail.com (Michael Torrie)
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 2015 09:44:37 -0600
Subject: New to Python - block grouping (spaces)
In-Reply-To: <6580b5d5-92f5-4bfa-b1d0-889c69fe82bb@googlegroups.com>
References: <9fc57fc9-0399-4ff3-882a-d041f02827d8@googlegroups.com>
 <6580b5d5-92f5-4bfa-b1d0-889c69fe82bb@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <55312A65.1090106@gmail.com>

On 04/16/2015 08:52 AM, Blake McBride wrote:
> Thanks for all the responses.  I especially like the Pike pointer.
> To be clear:
> 
> 1.  I don't think languages should depend on invisible elements to
> determine logic.
> 
> 2.  Having been an employer, it is difficult to force programmers to
> use any particular editor or style.  Different editors handle tabs
> and spaces differently.  This is all a bloody nightmare with Python.
> 
> 3.  Languages that use braces (or the like) can be run through a
> program beautifier to correct the indentation.  You are just screwed
> in Python.  So, Python may be a cute language for you to use as an
> individual, but it is unwieldy in a real development environment.
> 
> 4.  Language beautifiers used on bracey languages removes all
> arguments in favor of an off-side language.

While it appears that you had already made up your mind about the matter
long before posting, and perhaps was just looking for vindication, I
feel that some of the snide replies you got were just not tremendously
professional.  However, it may be that people recognized that you likely
had made up your mind already, and posted accordingly.


From invalid at invalid.invalid  Fri Apr 17 12:28:21 2015
From: invalid at invalid.invalid (Grant Edwards)
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 2015 16:28:21 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: New to Python - block grouping (spaces)
References: <9fc57fc9-0399-4ff3-882a-d041f02827d8@googlegroups.com>
 <6580b5d5-92f5-4bfa-b1d0-889c69fe82bb@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.374.1429285961.12925.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <mgrcb5$sn2$1@reader1.panix.com>

On 2015-04-17, Michael Torrie <torriem at gmail.com> wrote:
> On 04/16/2015 08:52 AM, Blake McBride wrote:
>> Thanks for all the responses.  I especially like the Pike pointer.
>> To be clear:
>
[troll bait elided]

> While it appears that you had already made up your mind about the
> matter long before posting, and perhaps was just looking for
> vindication, I feel that some of the snide replies you got were just
> not tremendously professional.

There are people who post to Usenet professionally?  And I've been
doing it all these years _for_free_?  And, it's not like there's some
sort of Olympics for which I needed to maintain my amateur standing.

> However, it may be that people recognized that you likely had made up
> your mind already, and posted accordingly.

I think most of us just assumed he was just trolling and were playing
along for the fun of it.

-- 
Grant Edwards               grant.b.edwards        Yow! As President I have
                                  at               to go vacuum my coin
                              gmail.com            collection!


From bc at freeuk.com  Fri Apr 17 13:05:52 2015
From: bc at freeuk.com (BartC)
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 2015 18:05:52 +0100
Subject: New to Python - block grouping (spaces)
In-Reply-To: <mgrcb5$sn2$1@reader1.panix.com>
References: <9fc57fc9-0399-4ff3-882a-d041f02827d8@googlegroups.com>
 <6580b5d5-92f5-4bfa-b1d0-889c69fe82bb@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.374.1429285961.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <mgrcb5$sn2$1@reader1.panix.com>
Message-ID: <Y3bYw.302660$ms.24839@fx30.am4>

On 17/04/2015 17:28, Grant Edwards wrote:
> On 2015-04-17, Michael Torrie <torriem at gmail.com> wrote:

>> However, it may be that people recognized that you likely had made up
>> your mind already, and posted accordingly.
>
> I think most of us just assumed he was just trolling and were playing
> along for the fun of it.

What was troll-like about it? The OP made it clear he didn't like the 
way Python made use of tabs, but he didn't want an argument about it or 
to be persuaded to change his mind or change anyone else's.

He wanted to know if there was a simple syntax wrapper for it. That 
seems reasonable enough.

(Actually *I* would quite like to know why languages don't have 
switchable syntax anyway to allow for people's personal preferences.)

-- 
Bartc



From rustompmody at gmail.com  Fri Apr 17 13:13:31 2015
From: rustompmody at gmail.com (Rustom Mody)
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 2015 10:13:31 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: New to Python - block grouping (spaces)
In-Reply-To: <Y3bYw.302660$ms.24839@fx30.am4>
References: <9fc57fc9-0399-4ff3-882a-d041f02827d8@googlegroups.com>
 <6580b5d5-92f5-4bfa-b1d0-889c69fe82bb@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.374.1429285961.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <mgrcb5$sn2$1@reader1.panix.com> <Y3bYw.302660$ms.24839@fx30.am4>
Message-ID: <3af12a43-748c-41aa-ad6a-bb5a9deb05fd@googlegroups.com>

On Friday, April 17, 2015 at 10:36:13 PM UTC+5:30, BartC wrote:
> (Actually *I* would quite like to know why languages don't have 
> switchable syntax anyway to allow for people's personal preferences.)

Mess in programming syntax is because of html:
http://blog.languager.org/2012/10/html-is-why-mess-in-programming-syntax.html


From saadaouijihed1990 at gmail.com  Fri Apr 17 13:17:38 2015
From: saadaouijihed1990 at gmail.com (saadaouijihed1990 at gmail.com)
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 2015 10:17:38 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Failed to import a "pyd: File When python intepreter embed in
 C++	project
In-Reply-To: <mailman.940.1358995439.2939.python-list@python.org>
References: <552da0d2-e744-4ce2-8204-14a7274515de@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.908.1358958543.2939.python-list@python.org>
 <mailman.940.1358995439.2939.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <0278ba52-ef8b-431b-a6e4-b0df4f9f8bc9@googlegroups.com>

I have a swig module (.pyd).I followed the steps but it doesn't work 
please help me.


From mal at europython.eu  Fri Apr 17 13:25:36 2015
From: mal at europython.eu (M.-A. Lemburg)
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 2015 19:25:36 +0200
Subject: EuroPython 2015: Django Girls Workshop
Message-ID: <55314210.60407@europython.eu>

We are happy to announce that we will be hosting a Django Girls Workshop
during the EuroPython 2015. It will take place on 20th of July, the
first day of the conference.

We believe in the work that this group is doing to bring more women
into technology, and we will work towards making EuroPython 2015
enjoyable and welcoming for these beginner programmers.

The workshop is free of charge and you must register through their
registration form; some financial aid for travel to Bilbao can be
provided:

https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1OEG1vpOa0fJWaGi81KLvoWloxbhKQW_ufp5Fb2j3QTc/viewform?c=0&w=1

The application process closes on May 31st, 2015.

The workshop is organized and coached by volunteers. If you or your
company would like to contribute by sponsoring, coaching, or any
other help you can provide, please email the organizers at
bilbao at djangogirls.org.

Check out their website for more information:

    http://djangogirls.org/europython2015/

Enjoy,
--
EuroPython 2015 Team
http://ep2015.europython.eu/


From emile at fenx.com  Fri Apr 17 13:52:45 2015
From: emile at fenx.com (Emile van Sebille)
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 2015 10:52:45 -0700
Subject: Failed to import a "pyd: File When python intepreter embed in
 C++ project
In-Reply-To: <0278ba52-ef8b-431b-a6e4-b0df4f9f8bc9@googlegroups.com>
References: <552da0d2-e744-4ce2-8204-14a7274515de@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.908.1358958543.2939.python-list@python.org>
 <mailman.940.1358995439.2939.python-list@python.org>
 <0278ba52-ef8b-431b-a6e4-b0df4f9f8bc9@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <mgrh9g$mke$1@ger.gmane.org>

On 4/17/2015 10:17 AM, saadaouijihed1990 at gmail.com wrote:
> I have a swig module (.pyd).I followed the steps but it doesn't work
> please help me.
>

Start here:

http://catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html

Emile




From sohcahtoa82 at gmail.com  Fri Apr 17 14:13:15 2015
From: sohcahtoa82 at gmail.com (sohcahtoa82 at gmail.com)
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 2015 11:13:15 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: New to Python - block grouping (spaces)
In-Reply-To: <Y3bYw.302660$ms.24839@fx30.am4>
References: <9fc57fc9-0399-4ff3-882a-d041f02827d8@googlegroups.com>
 <6580b5d5-92f5-4bfa-b1d0-889c69fe82bb@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.374.1429285961.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <mgrcb5$sn2$1@reader1.panix.com> <Y3bYw.302660$ms.24839@fx30.am4>
Message-ID: <32224544-40dc-49a8-8371-ef18683e0b7f@googlegroups.com>

On Friday, April 17, 2015 at 10:06:13 AM UTC-7, BartC wrote:
> On 17/04/2015 17:28, Grant Edwards wrote:
> > On 2015-04-17, Michael Torrie <torriem at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> >> However, it may be that people recognized that you likely had made up
> >> your mind already, and posted accordingly.
> >
> > I think most of us just assumed he was just trolling and were playing
> > along for the fun of it.
> 
> What was troll-like about it? The OP made it clear he didn't like the 
> way Python made use of tabs, but he didn't want an argument about it or 
> to be persuaded to change his mind or change anyone else's.
> 
> He wanted to know if there was a simple syntax wrapper for it. That 
> seems reasonable enough.
> 
> (Actually *I* would quite like to know why languages don't have 
> switchable syntax anyway to allow for people's personal preferences.)
> 
> -- 
> Bartc

Allowing a switchable syntax only makes the fight even worse.  If you made braces in Python an option to use instead of whitespace block delimiting, then there'd be a ton of infighting among Python developers over which to use.  Just look at C/C++ developers fighting over where the opening brace goes.

By having the language itself forcing a specific style, it requires everyone using it to either shut up and get over it, or just don't use the language.

Personally, I like the Python style.  It forces people to write code that is at least somewhat good to look at.  Not like monstrosities like this that I see from newbie (hell, even professional) C/C++ programmers:

if (something > something_else)
{
result = do_something();
if (!result){
printf("Error!\n")
    return 0;
    }
    do_other_stuff();
    }

Can someone still write ugly code in Python?  No doubt about it.  But at least code blocks will be easily deciphered.


From ron3200 at gmail.com  Fri Apr 17 14:16:48 2015
From: ron3200 at gmail.com (Ron Adam)
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 2015 14:16:48 -0400
Subject: Great Math Mystery
In-Reply-To: <553120cf$0$12993$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
References: <si90ja55bdlt93020ou2v1ferp5sojitne@4ax.com>
 <55305821$0$13003$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <mailman.362.1429264034.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <553120cf$0$12993$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <mgrimh$ihm$1@ger.gmane.org>



On 04/17/2015 11:03 AM, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> On Fri, 17 Apr 2015 07:47 pm, Fetchinson . wrote:
>
>>>> >>>In an altercation with the police, complying with their orders greatly
>>>> >>>increases your chances of survival.
>>> >>
>>> >>Ah, the definition of a police state: where ordinary people, whether
>>> >>breaking the law or not, are forced by fear of death to obey the police
>>> >>at all times, whether the police are acting legally or not.
>> >
>> >I think you are grossly mischaracterizing that sentence of the OP. He
>> >simply makes an observation: in an altercation with the police,
>> >complying with their orders greatly increases your chances of
>> >survival. Is this observation/statement true or false? Based on
>> >empirical data from the past 50 years (in the US and elsewhere) I'd
>> >say it's true by a huge margin.
> Which is*exactly my point*.
>
> "Failure to obey arbitrary commands from random police officers, whether
> legally justified or not, may carry the penalty of summary execution at the
> discretion of the officer" is a defining characteristic of police states.

This is but one subset of the possibilities that could lead to the same 
valid advise.

Keep in mind that many officers are citizens too, at least where I live, 
who have jobs that put them in extremely dangerous situations fairly often. 
  Taking too long to rationally think about a situation could mean the 
police officer is shot instead of the criminal with a gun.

There are some combinations of conditions that will result in a certain 
percentage of outcomes of a certain kind.  I think the original statement 
(Quite possibly from a fortune cookie program.) recognises that concept (as 
well as yours.)  Take a thousand officers, each who respond to a thousand 
calls a year, and there will be a few (very tragic) mistakes.  (and 
hopefully many more fortunate interventions.)  We can maybe shift the 
proportion of mistakes vs interventions, but I don't see how training 
officers to shoot after being shot is a good idea.  We will likely need to 
pay a whole lot more to get people to take those jobs.

Of course it does not excuse willing abuse of authority. Most cases of 
police power abuse here are more likely to be related to an individual 
officers state of mind and/or motives at the time rather than being due to 
instructions higher up.

Possibly there is a way to use Python and statistics to calculate some of 
these values.  With data of course...

    Number of officers.
    number of responses.
    Percent of responses where suspects have deadly weapons.
    Percent of incorrect judgements within some critical time frame
       by people in safe conditions.
    Percentage of incorrect judgements of people in dangerous conditions.
    Percentage of incorrect judgements of people in safe, but perceived
       dangerousness conditions.. etc...

Would be possible to calculate a norm or average from that kind of info?

It is also the type of number people don't want to know about or discuss.

    -Ron


> I made no comment on the OP's intention for making that statement. Perhaps
> he was making an ironic comment on the state of US law enforcement; perhaps
> he thinks he is being genuinely helpful; perhaps this is his way of mocking
> those killed. I don't know. Whether he is a fascist who thinks police
> states are wonderful, or a liberal who thinks they are terrible, he
> described a police state. Whether he knew it at the time or not.



From beliavsky at aol.com  Fri Apr 17 15:35:20 2015
From: beliavsky at aol.com (beliavsky at aol.com)
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 2015 12:35:20 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: EuroPython 2015: Django Girls Workshop
In-Reply-To: <mailman.375.1429291538.12925.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.375.1429291538.12925.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <b99ec2b1-2370-4923-9311-80365fb6bcb1@googlegroups.com>

On Friday, April 17, 2015 at 1:25:51 PM UTC-4, M.-A. Lemburg wrote:
> We are happy to announce that we will be hosting a Django Girls Workshop
> during the EuroPython 2015. It will take place on 20th of July, the
> first day of the conference.
> 
> We believe in the work that this group is doing to bring more women
> into technology, and we will work towards making EuroPython 2015
> enjoyable and welcoming for these beginner programmers.

If your target audience is women, I think you should have termed it the Django Womens Workshop rather than the Django Girls Workshop. Referring to adults as children can be seen as condescending.



From marko at pacujo.net  Fri Apr 17 16:28:27 2015
From: marko at pacujo.net (Marko Rauhamaa)
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 2015 23:28:27 +0300
Subject: New to Python - block grouping (spaces)
References: <9fc57fc9-0399-4ff3-882a-d041f02827d8@googlegroups.com>
 <6580b5d5-92f5-4bfa-b1d0-889c69fe82bb@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.374.1429285961.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <mgrcb5$sn2$1@reader1.panix.com> <Y3bYw.302660$ms.24839@fx30.am4>
 <32224544-40dc-49a8-8371-ef18683e0b7f@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <87a8y6zehg.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>

sohcahtoa82 at gmail.com:

> Can someone still write ugly code in Python? No doubt about it. But at
> least code blocks will be easily deciphered.

That's how I was originally convinced about Python: a coworker with a
terrible C++ "handwriting" produced neat, legible code in Python.

I'm still slightly annoyed by some downsides in the indentation style,
but the practical benefits more than compensate. Also, the semicolon
rules of JavaScript and Go are horrible compared with the simple line
continuation rules of Python.


Marko


From marko at pacujo.net  Fri Apr 17 16:31:42 2015
From: marko at pacujo.net (Marko Rauhamaa)
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 2015 23:31:42 +0300
Subject: EuroPython 2015: Django Girls Workshop
References: <mailman.375.1429291538.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <b99ec2b1-2370-4923-9311-80365fb6bcb1@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <87618uzec1.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>

beliavsky at aol.com:

> If your target audience is women, I think you should have termed it
> the Django Womens Workshop rather than the Django Girls Workshop.
> Referring to adults as children can be seen as condescending.

You got it wrong. The name is not offensive. However, it suffers from
two serious problems:

 * You might think it's for children only.

 * The name's missing an apostrophe.


Marko


From larry.martell at gmail.com  Fri Apr 17 16:44:08 2015
From: larry.martell at gmail.com (Larry Martell)
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 2015 16:44:08 -0400
Subject: EuroPython 2015: Django Girls Workshop
In-Reply-To: <87618uzec1.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
References: <mailman.375.1429291538.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <b99ec2b1-2370-4923-9311-80365fb6bcb1@googlegroups.com>
 <87618uzec1.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
Message-ID: <CACwCsY4mRo66Az_fv63aHSYb2EHHZLoeFaSVarj=O92A6YQKNg@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Apr 17, 2015 at 4:31 PM, Marko Rauhamaa <marko at pacujo.net> wrote:
> beliavsky at aol.com:
>
>> If your target audience is women, I think you should have termed it
>> the Django Womens Workshop rather than the Django Girls Workshop.
>> Referring to adults as children can be seen as condescending.
>
> You got it wrong. The name is not offensive.

Most adult woman I know take offense at being called a girl.


From rosuav at gmail.com  Fri Apr 17 17:10:50 2015
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Sat, 18 Apr 2015 07:10:50 +1000
Subject: New to Python - block grouping (spaces)
In-Reply-To: <Y3bYw.302660$ms.24839@fx30.am4>
References: <9fc57fc9-0399-4ff3-882a-d041f02827d8@googlegroups.com>
 <6580b5d5-92f5-4bfa-b1d0-889c69fe82bb@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.374.1429285961.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <mgrcb5$sn2$1@reader1.panix.com> <Y3bYw.302660$ms.24839@fx30.am4>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmrUfqJc7ipV2+_ouTLNWOD7r6nqXYQW5-DPsHUiH5-oPA@mail.gmail.com>

On Sat, Apr 18, 2015 at 3:05 AM, BartC <bc at freeuk.com> wrote:
> (Actually *I* would quite like to know why languages don't have switchable
> syntax anyway to allow for people's personal preferences.)

Why do it? What's the advantage of calling two different syntaxes one
language? Simpler to just call them two separate languages - maybe two
languages that share some sort of runtime, but two languages. For
instance, Java bytecode doesn't have to be created from Java source
code, but we don't consider NetRexx to be a "switchable syntax" for
Java. It's a completely separate language that compiles to a .class
file.

ChrisA


From breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk  Fri Apr 17 17:14:15 2015
From: breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk (Mark Lawrence)
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 2015 22:14:15 +0100
Subject: EuroPython 2015: Django Girls Workshop
In-Reply-To: <b99ec2b1-2370-4923-9311-80365fb6bcb1@googlegroups.com>
References: <mailman.375.1429291538.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <b99ec2b1-2370-4923-9311-80365fb6bcb1@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <mgrt3c$pop$1@ger.gmane.org>

On 17/04/2015 20:35, beliavsky at aol.com.dmarc.invalid wrote:
> On Friday, April 17, 2015 at 1:25:51 PM UTC-4, M.-A. Lemburg wrote:
>> We are happy to announce that we will be hosting a Django Girls Workshop
>> during the EuroPython 2015. It will take place on 20th of July, the
>> first day of the conference.
>>
>> We believe in the work that this group is doing to bring more women
>> into technology, and we will work towards making EuroPython 2015
>> enjoyable and welcoming for these beginner programmers.
>
> If your target audience is women, I think you should have termed it the Django Womens Workshop rather than the Django Girls Workshop. Referring to adults as children can be seen as condescending.
>

http://djangogirls.org/

-- 
My fellow Pythonistas, ask not what our language can do for you, ask
what you can do for our language.

Mark Lawrence



From edreamleo at gmail.com  Fri Apr 17 17:59:22 2015
From: edreamleo at gmail.com (edreamleo at gmail.com)
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 2015 14:59:22 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: ANN: Leo 5.1-final. PIM, scripting Python IDE, Outliner
Message-ID: <90335b0f-04f6-49ab-a923-b5112b680317@googlegroups.com>

<p>
<a href="http://leoeditor.com/">Leo</a> 5.1 final is now available at
<a href="http://sourceforge.net/projects/leo/files/Leo/">SourceForge.</a>
Leo is Open Software, using the
<a href="http://leoeditor.com/license.html">MIT License</a>.
</p>

<p>
Leo 5.1-final is recommended for anyone using Leo 5.1 b1 or Leo 5.0-final.
</p>

<h3>The highlights of Leo 5.1</h3>

<p>
This release features <b>@clean</b>, one of the most important developments in Leo's history.
@clean nodes create external files without sentinel comments,
yet <b>Leo can update @clean trees from changes made to the corresponding external files</b>.
Steve Zatz explains <a href="http://leoeditor.com/testimonials.html#steve-zatz-explains-why-clean-changes-everything">why @clean changes everything</a>.
</p>

<h3>More highlights</h3>

<p>
<ul>
<li>@clean trees preserve clone links and user attributes (uA's).</li>
<li>Reading @clean trees is faster than reading @auto or @shadow trees.</li>
<li>A new <a href="http://leoeditor.com/load-leo.html">web page</a> displays .leo files in the browser.</li>
<li>Added <b>command history</b> to Leo's minibuffer.</li>
<li>A new IdleTime class greatly simplifies idle-time handling.</li>
<li>Leo now honors @language inside @doc parts.</li>
<li>@data nodes can be composed of their descendant nodes.</li>
</ul>
</p>

<h3>Links</h3>

<p>
<ul>
<li>
The <a href="http://leoeditor.com/appendices.html#the-mulder-ream-update-algorithm"> Mulder/Ream algorithm</a>
updates @clean trees</li>
<li><a href="http://leoeditor.com">Leo's home page</a>
<li><a href="http://leoeditor.com/leo_toc.html">Documentation</a>
<li><a href="http://leoeditor.com/tutorial.html">Tutorials</a>
<li><a href="http://leoeditor.com/screencasts.html">Video tutorials</a>
<li><a href="http://groups.google.com/group/leo-editor">Forum</a>
<li><a href="http://sourceforge.net/projects/leo/files/">Download</a>
<li><a href="https://github.com/leo-editor/leo-editor">Leo on Github</a>
<li><a href="http://leoeditor.com/testimonials.html">What people are saying about Leo</a>
<li><a href="http://leoeditor.com/load-leo.html">A web page that displays .leo files</a>
<li><a href="http://leoeditor.com/leoLinks.html">More links</a>
</ul>
</p>

<p>
Edward K. Ream: <a href="mailto:edreamleo at gmail.com">email</a>.
</p>

<p><a HREF=href="http://leoeditor.com/">Leo 5.1</a>
is a PIM, a Python scripting IDE and outliner. (16-Apr-15)
</p>


From ben+python at benfinney.id.au  Fri Apr 17 18:04:25 2015
From: ben+python at benfinney.id.au (Ben Finney)
Date: Sat, 18 Apr 2015 08:04:25 +1000
Subject: EuroPython 2015: Django Girls Workshop
References: <mailman.375.1429291538.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <b99ec2b1-2370-4923-9311-80365fb6bcb1@googlegroups.com>
 <87618uzec1.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
Message-ID: <854moes97a.fsf@benfinney.id.au>

Marko Rauhamaa <marko at pacujo.net> writes:

> beliavsky at aol.com:
>
> > If your target audience is women, I think you should have termed it
> > the Django Womens Workshop rather than the Django Girls Workshop.
> > Referring to adults as children can be seen as condescending.
>
> You got it wrong. The name is not offensive.

It is not for you to say what is offensive to others.

Further, nobody claimed it is ?offensive?, so why raise that?

The claim is that to call women ?girls? is condenscending.

-- 
 \      ?People always ask me, ?Where were you when Kennedy was shot?? |
  `\                        Well, I don't have an alibi.? ?Emo Philips |
_o__)                                                                  |
Ben Finney



From tjreedy at udel.edu  Fri Apr 17 19:29:28 2015
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 2015 19:29:28 -0400
Subject: EuroPython 2015: Django Girls Workshop
In-Reply-To: <87618uzec1.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
References: <mailman.375.1429291538.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <b99ec2b1-2370-4923-9311-80365fb6bcb1@googlegroups.com>
 <87618uzec1.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
Message-ID: <mgs50s$m59$1@ger.gmane.org>

On 4/17/2015 4:31 PM, Marko Rauhamaa wrote:
> beliavsky at aol.com:
>
>> If your target audience is women, I think you should have termed it
>> the Django Womens Workshop rather than the Django Girls Workshop.
>> Referring to adults as children can be seen as condescending.

Are all of you claiming this so ignorant that 'girls' is sometimes used 
to refer to adult women, just as 'boys' is someitmes used to refer to 
adult men?  The co-founders of 'Django Girls', djangogirls.org, are two 
Polish females.  Judging from their pictures on their twitter pages, 
they were perhaps in their 20s at the time.  They love Python, are 
Django Core Developers, and want to share, especially with other women. 
They were *not* condescending themselves or other women.

"
We want to inspire women to fall in love with programming.

So we organize free Python and Django workshops, create open sourced 
online tutorials and care about amazing first experiences.
"


> You got it wrong. The name is not offensive. However, it suffers from
> two serious problems:
>
>   * You might think it's for children only.

I would not.

>   * The name's missing an apostrophe.

Nope.  The organization is 'Django Girls', not 'Django Girl'.  A Djange 
Girls Workshop is a workshop by and for Django Girls.

-- 
Terry Jan Reedy



From ian.g.kelly at gmail.com  Fri Apr 17 20:14:58 2015
From: ian.g.kelly at gmail.com (Ian Kelly)
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 2015 18:14:58 -0600
Subject: EuroPython 2015: Django Girls Workshop
In-Reply-To: <mgs50s$m59$1@ger.gmane.org>
References: <mailman.375.1429291538.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <b99ec2b1-2370-4923-9311-80365fb6bcb1@googlegroups.com>
 <87618uzec1.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net> <mgs50s$m59$1@ger.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <CALwzidk-1+q2_B1FRsCGACrDvVxttS0C+0Ndpip5uG=FNpzNZw@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Apr 17, 2015 at 5:29 PM, Terry Reedy <tjreedy at udel.edu> wrote:
> On 4/17/2015 4:31 PM, Marko Rauhamaa wrote:
>>   * You might think it's for children only.
>
>
> I would not.

It was my first impression that it was targeted for children. There
are a lot of STEM programs these days oriented toward girl children,
and the name in combination with the second paragraph of the OP led me
to believe that this was one of those. I think it's fair to say that
the announcement could have been a bit clearer about the organization
behind the event and about the intended audience.


From cs at zip.com.au  Fri Apr 17 20:33:51 2015
From: cs at zip.com.au (Cameron Simpson)
Date: Sat, 18 Apr 2015 10:33:51 +1000
Subject: Importing/migrating Mailman mbox files into Google Groups?
In-Reply-To: <CANc-5Uw9cBhuZ6qOAAFDmZhtpqhO8ZbyEALw1MyJ06b0PVVG8Q@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CANc-5Uw9cBhuZ6qOAAFDmZhtpqhO8ZbyEALw1MyJ06b0PVVG8Q@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20150418003351.GA84797@cskk.homeip.net>

On 16Apr2015 08:32, Skip Montanaro <skip.montanaro at gmail.com> wrote:
>Quite sometime ago (2011?), the classic-rendezvous mailing list, which had
>been hosted by a Mailman instance at bikelist.org, was reconstituted as a
>Google Group. Just a bunch of old bikies interested in vintage bikes. The
>original archives were never imported into the new group. (It might not
>have been possible at that time.) I suspect there might be a way to
>accomplish that today using some Google API like this:
>
>https://developers.google.com/admin-sdk/groups-migration/v1/reference/archive/insert
>
>Has anyone here attempted such a feat? I have no problem with the Python
>side of traversing the necessary mbox archive files, but have no experience
>with any of the Google APIs.
>
>Pointers appreciated...

Hmm, I have never used these.

However, before you get very excited see if people can get messages back out of 
the archive. A major annoyance for me with GGroups versus mailman is that if I 
join a group I cannot download the historical archive. (This is a standard step 
for me when I join a mailing list. I hear mailman 3 might be tossing this 
facility; I am unimpressed.)

Returning to the original question, it looks like the uppload format is pretty 
simple. This page:

  https://developers.google.com/admin-sdk/groups-migration/v1/guides/manage-email-migrations#group_migration_media_upload

which is linked to from your link seems to show an example.

Cheers,
Cameron Simpson <cs at zip.com.au>

Facts do not discourage the conspiracy-minded.
        - Robert Crawford <rawford at iac.net>


From davea at davea.name  Fri Apr 17 20:40:30 2015
From: davea at davea.name (Dave Angel)
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 2015 20:40:30 -0400
Subject: Failed to import a "pyd: File When python intepreter embed in
 C++	project
In-Reply-To: <0278ba52-ef8b-431b-a6e4-b0df4f9f8bc9@googlegroups.com>
References: <552da0d2-e744-4ce2-8204-14a7274515de@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.908.1358958543.2939.python-list@python.org>
 <mailman.940.1358995439.2939.python-list@python.org>
 <0278ba52-ef8b-431b-a6e4-b0df4f9f8bc9@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <5531A7FE.60203@davea.name>

On 04/17/2015 01:17 PM, saadaouijihed1990 at gmail.com wrote:
> I have a swig module (.pyd).I followed the steps but it doesn't work
> please help me.
>

First, unplug the computer and remove the battery.  Then if it's still 
burning, douse it with a fire extinguisher.

If your symptoms are different, you'll have to spell it out.  Like 
Python version, OS, complete stack trace.  And anything else that may be 
needed to diagnose the problem.

-- 
DaveA


From dan at tombstonezero.net  Fri Apr 17 21:18:17 2015
From: dan at tombstonezero.net (Dan Sommers)
Date: Sat, 18 Apr 2015 01:18:17 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: New to Python - block grouping (spaces)
References: <9fc57fc9-0399-4ff3-882a-d041f02827d8@googlegroups.com>
 <6580b5d5-92f5-4bfa-b1d0-889c69fe82bb@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.374.1429285961.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <mgrcb5$sn2$1@reader1.panix.com> <Y3bYw.302660$ms.24839@fx30.am4>
Message-ID: <mgsbco$e1t$1@dont-email.me>

On Fri, 17 Apr 2015 18:05:52 +0100, BartC wrote:

> (Actually *I* would quite like to know why languages don't have
> switchable syntax anyway to allow for people's personal preferences.)

You want LISP, the programmable programming language.


From paddy3118 at gmail.com  Fri Apr 17 21:19:09 2015
From: paddy3118 at gmail.com (Paddy)
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 2015 18:19:09 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Need opinions on P vs NP
Message-ID: <f2e51cb7-dbcf-4679-baf3-9b006b82e08c@googlegroups.com>

Having just seen Raymond's talk on Beyond PEP-8 here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wf-BqAjZb8M, it reminded me of my own recent post where I am soliciting opinions from non-newbies on the relative Pythonicity of different versions of a routine that has non-simple array manipulations.

The blog post: http://paddy3118.blogspot.co.uk/2015/04/pythonic-matrix-manipulation.html

The first, (and original), code sample:

def cholesky(A):
    L = [[0.0] * len(A) for _ in range(len(A))]
    for i in range(len(A)):
        for j in range(i+1):
            s = sum(L[i][k] * L[j][k] for k in range(j))
            L[i][j] = sqrt(A[i][i] - s) if (i == j) else \
                      (1.0 / L[j][j] * (A[i][j] - s))
    return L


The second equivalent code sample:

def cholesky2(A):
    L = [[0.0] * len(A) for _ in range(len(A))]
    for i, (Ai, Li) in enumerate(zip(A, L)):
        for j, Lj in enumerate(L[:i+1]):
            s = sum(Li[k] * Lj[k] for k in range(j))
            Li[j] = sqrt(Ai[i] - s) if (i == j) else \
                      (1.0 / Lj[j] * (Ai[j] - s))
    return L


The third:

def cholesky3(A):
    L = [[0.0] * len(A) for _ in range(len(A))]
    for i, (Ai, Li) in enumerate(zip(A, L)):
        for j, Lj in enumerate(L[:i]):
            #s = fsum(Li[k] * Lj[k] for k in range(j))
            s = fsum(Lik * Ljk for Lik, Ljk in zip(Li, Lj[:j]))
            Li[j] = (1.0 / Lj[j] * (Ai[j] - s))
        s = fsum(Lik * Lik for Lik in Li[:i])
        Li[i] = sqrt(Ai[i] - s)
    return L

My blog post gives a little more explanation, but I have yet to receive any comments on relative Pythonicity.


From torriem at gmail.com  Fri Apr 17 22:14:49 2015
From: torriem at gmail.com (Michael Torrie)
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 2015 20:14:49 -0600
Subject: New to Python - block grouping (spaces)
In-Reply-To: <Y3bYw.302660$ms.24839@fx30.am4>
References: <9fc57fc9-0399-4ff3-882a-d041f02827d8@googlegroups.com>
 <6580b5d5-92f5-4bfa-b1d0-889c69fe82bb@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.374.1429285961.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <mgrcb5$sn2$1@reader1.panix.com> <Y3bYw.302660$ms.24839@fx30.am4>
Message-ID: <5531BE19.1010402@gmail.com>

On 04/17/2015 11:05 AM, BartC wrote:
> He wanted to know if there was a simple syntax wrapper for it. That 
> seems reasonable enough.
> 
> (Actually *I* would quite like to know why languages don't have 
> switchable syntax anyway to allow for people's personal preferences.)

There was a version of Python (compatible at a bytecode level) that did
implement braces for blocks.  It was called pythonb, but it is now
defunct, understandably for lack of interest.  It was just a
modification to the parser is all.  So it's completely doable.  In fact
one could probably do it with a preprocessor of some kind.  But there's
little utility in it.



From me at anonymous.invalid  Fri Apr 17 22:17:17 2015
From: me at anonymous.invalid (catperson)
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 2015 19:17:17 -0700
Subject: EuroPython 2015: Django Girls Workshop
References: <mailman.375.1429291538.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <b99ec2b1-2370-4923-9311-80365fb6bcb1@googlegroups.com>
 <87618uzec1.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
Message-ID: <28f3jadip18isnp21gd2ln9hco1scojjcs@4ax.com>

On Fri, 17 Apr 2015 23:31:42 +0300, Marko Rauhamaa <marko at pacujo.net>
wrote:

>beliavsky at aol.com:
>
>> If your target audience is women, I think you should have termed it
>> the Django Womens Workshop rather than the Django Girls Workshop.
>> Referring to adults as children can be seen as condescending.
>
>You got it wrong. The name is not offensive. However, it suffers from
>two serious problems:
>
> * You might think it's for children only.
>
> * The name's missing an apostrophe.
>
>
>Marko


They are not girls, they are purple penguins.  PC can be taken too
far...

http://journalstar.com/news/local/education/lps-staff-s-transgender-training-concerns-parents/article_0b37dd75-758d-50c1-9deb-16901059bc5a.html



From rustompmody at gmail.com  Fri Apr 17 22:22:32 2015
From: rustompmody at gmail.com (Rustom Mody)
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 2015 19:22:32 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: New to Python - block grouping (spaces)
In-Reply-To: <mgsbco$e1t$1@dont-email.me>
References: <9fc57fc9-0399-4ff3-882a-d041f02827d8@googlegroups.com>
 <6580b5d5-92f5-4bfa-b1d0-889c69fe82bb@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.374.1429285961.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <mgrcb5$sn2$1@reader1.panix.com> <Y3bYw.302660$ms.24839@fx30.am4>
 <mgsbco$e1t$1@dont-email.me>
Message-ID: <73a6cda5-2962-462a-8aa3-d43dbb077a0d@googlegroups.com>

On Saturday, April 18, 2015 at 6:49:30 AM UTC+5:30, Dan Sommers wrote:
> On Fri, 17 Apr 2015 18:05:52 +0100, BartC wrote:
> 
> > (Actually *I* would quite like to know why languages don't have
> > switchable syntax anyway to allow for people's personal preferences.)
> 
> You want LISP, the programmable programming language.

You got it!!
One of the deep paradoxes in 'getting' programming is that you cant do 
programming without some syntax; and yet syntax is irrelevant.

I dont believe one can ever get that without some experience of Lisp --
Minsky's Turing award lecture is an elaboration of this:
http://web.media.mit.edu/~minsky/papers/TuringLecture/TuringLecture.html


From ben+python at benfinney.id.au  Fri Apr 17 22:22:52 2015
From: ben+python at benfinney.id.au (Ben Finney)
Date: Sat, 18 Apr 2015 12:22:52 +1000
Subject: New to Python - block grouping (spaces)
References: <9fc57fc9-0399-4ff3-882a-d041f02827d8@googlegroups.com>
 <6580b5d5-92f5-4bfa-b1d0-889c69fe82bb@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.374.1429285961.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <mgrcb5$sn2$1@reader1.panix.com> <Y3bYw.302660$ms.24839@fx30.am4>
Message-ID: <85twweqio3.fsf@benfinney.id.au>

BartC <bc at freeuk.com> writes:

> (Actually *I* would quite like to know why languages don't have
> switchable syntax anyway to allow for people's personal preferences.)

Which people's personal preferences? Are these the same people who have
such passionate disagreement about tabs versus spaces?

If you only write programs that will only ever be read by you and no-one
else, feel free to maintain a fork of Python (or any other language)
that suits your personal preferences.

Too much effort? Or maybe you sometimes want others, whose preferences
may not exactly match yours, to collaborate on programs you write? Then
I think you have your answer of why such personal perferences are not
switchable in the languages we actually use.

-- 
 \      ?It is the integrity of each individual human that is in final |
  `\        examination. On personal integrity hangs humanity's fate.? |
_o__)               ?Richard Buckminster Fuller, _Critical Path_, 1981 |
Ben Finney



From ian.g.kelly at gmail.com  Fri Apr 17 22:33:32 2015
From: ian.g.kelly at gmail.com (Ian Kelly)
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 2015 20:33:32 -0600
Subject: Need opinions on P vs NP
In-Reply-To: <f2e51cb7-dbcf-4679-baf3-9b006b82e08c@googlegroups.com>
References: <f2e51cb7-dbcf-4679-baf3-9b006b82e08c@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <CALwzidmCmVSd_swoMHB=Nn6UF+asmTswujuCq0LwtXLv8XxfqA@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Apr 17, 2015 at 7:19 PM, Paddy <paddy3118 at gmail.com> wrote:
> Having just seen Raymond's talk on Beyond PEP-8 here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wf-BqAjZb8M, it reminded me of my own recent post where I am soliciting opinions from non-newbies on the relative Pythonicity of different versions of a routine that has non-simple array manipulations.
>
> The blog post: http://paddy3118.blogspot.co.uk/2015/04/pythonic-matrix-manipulation.html
>
> The first, (and original), code sample:
>
> def cholesky(A):
>     L = [[0.0] * len(A) for _ in range(len(A))]
>     for i in range(len(A)):
>         for j in range(i+1):
>             s = sum(L[i][k] * L[j][k] for k in range(j))
>             L[i][j] = sqrt(A[i][i] - s) if (i == j) else \
>                       (1.0 / L[j][j] * (A[i][j] - s))
>     return L
>
>
> The second equivalent code sample:
>
> def cholesky2(A):
>     L = [[0.0] * len(A) for _ in range(len(A))]
>     for i, (Ai, Li) in enumerate(zip(A, L)):
>         for j, Lj in enumerate(L[:i+1]):
>             s = sum(Li[k] * Lj[k] for k in range(j))
>             Li[j] = sqrt(Ai[i] - s) if (i == j) else \
>                       (1.0 / Lj[j] * (Ai[j] - s))
>     return L
>
>
> The third:
>
> def cholesky3(A):
>     L = [[0.0] * len(A) for _ in range(len(A))]
>     for i, (Ai, Li) in enumerate(zip(A, L)):
>         for j, Lj in enumerate(L[:i]):
>             #s = fsum(Li[k] * Lj[k] for k in range(j))
>             s = fsum(Lik * Ljk for Lik, Ljk in zip(Li, Lj[:j]))
>             Li[j] = (1.0 / Lj[j] * (Ai[j] - s))
>         s = fsum(Lik * Lik for Lik in Li[:i])
>         Li[i] = sqrt(Ai[i] - s)
>     return L
>
> My blog post gives a little more explanation, but I have yet to receive any comments on relative Pythonicity.

I prefer the first version. You're dealing with mathematical formulas
involving matrices here, so subscripting seems appropriate, and
enumerating out rows and columns just feels weird to me.

That said, I also prefer how the third version pulls the last column
of each row out of the inner loop instead of using a verbose
conditional expression that you already know will be false for every
column except the last one. Do that in the first version, and I think
you've got it.


From no.email at nospam.invalid  Fri Apr 17 23:47:52 2015
From: no.email at nospam.invalid (Paul Rubin)
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 2015 20:47:52 -0700
Subject: PEP 492, new coroutine syntax for Python
Message-ID: <87fv7yjdw7.fsf@jester.gateway.pace.com>

I don't remember anyone mentioning this here yet, and it is mighty cool:

https://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0492/


From rosuav at gmail.com  Sat Apr 18 00:02:33 2015
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Sat, 18 Apr 2015 14:02:33 +1000
Subject: PEP 492, new coroutine syntax for Python
In-Reply-To: <87fv7yjdw7.fsf@jester.gateway.pace.com>
References: <87fv7yjdw7.fsf@jester.gateway.pace.com>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmrbCaziSQGPik7oK3njXJe=sE6swCvHDMvB2WXP68f+GQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Sat, Apr 18, 2015 at 1:47 PM, Paul Rubin <no.email at nospam.invalid> wrote:
> I don't remember anyone mentioning this here yet, and it is mighty cool:
>
> https://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0492/

Hah. It only just hit python-ideas, so you're jumping in on something
brand new - no wonder it hasn't been mentioned yet :)

And yes, it IS cool. I think the current proposal has a lot of
duplication (it looks like there's almost a complete replica of the
generator protocol being created in parallel), but whatever happens,
it's a good thing.

The document's in a state of some flux at the moment. If you're
interested, I strongly recommend jumping over to python-ideas and
following along - that is, if you're interested enough to drink from
the veritable fire-hose of -ideas! There's a chance this will land in
Python 3.5, but if not, I'd be very surprised if it doesn't hit 3.6.
This is an exciting time to be a Python programmer!

ChrisA


From paddy3118 at gmail.com  Sat Apr 18 01:11:48 2015
From: paddy3118 at gmail.com (Paddy)
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 2015 22:11:48 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Need opinions on P vs NP
In-Reply-To: <mailman.389.1429324454.12925.python-list@python.org>
References: <f2e51cb7-dbcf-4679-baf3-9b006b82e08c@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.389.1429324454.12925.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <43f7a201-5b3e-48f9-b216-feeea306dac6@googlegroups.com>

On Saturday, 18 April 2015 03:34:57 UTC+1, Ian  wrote:
> On Fri, Apr 17, 2015 at 7:19 PM, Paddy <paddy3118 at ..l.com> wrote:
> > Having just seen Raymond's talk on Beyond PEP-8 here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wf-BqAjZb8M, it reminded me of my own recent post where I am soliciting opinions from non-newbies on the relative Pythonicity of different versions of a routine that has non-simple array manipulations.
> >
> > The blog post: http://paddy3118.blogspot.co.uk/2015/04/pythonic-matrix-manipulation.html
> >
> > The first, (and original), code sample:
> >
> > def cholesky(A):
> >     L = [[0.0] * len(A) for _ in range(len(A))]
> >     for i in range(len(A)):
> >         for j in range(i+1):
> >             s = sum(L[i][k] * L[j][k] for k in range(j))
> >             L[i][j] = sqrt(A[i][i] - s) if (i == j) else \
> >                       (1.0 / L[j][j] * (A[i][j] - s))
> >     return L
> >
> >
> > The second equivalent code sample:
> >
> > def cholesky2(A):
> >     L = [[0.0] * len(A) for _ in range(len(A))]
> >     for i, (Ai, Li) in enumerate(zip(A, L)):
> >         for j, Lj in enumerate(L[:i+1]):
> >             s = sum(Li[k] * Lj[k] for k in range(j))
> >             Li[j] = sqrt(Ai[i] - s) if (i == j) else \
> >                       (1.0 / Lj[j] * (Ai[j] - s))
> >     return L
> >
> >
> > The third:
> >
> > def cholesky3(A):
> >     L = [[0.0] * len(A) for _ in range(len(A))]
> >     for i, (Ai, Li) in enumerate(zip(A, L)):
> >         for j, Lj in enumerate(L[:i]):
> >             #s = fsum(Li[k] * Lj[k] for k in range(j))
> >             s = fsum(Lik * Ljk for Lik, Ljk in zip(Li, Lj[:j]))
> >             Li[j] = (1.0 / Lj[j] * (Ai[j] - s))
> >         s = fsum(Lik * Lik for Lik in Li[:i])
> >         Li[i] = sqrt(Ai[i] - s)
> >     return L
> >
> > My blog post gives a little more explanation, but I have yet to receive any comments on relative Pythonicity.
> 
> I prefer the first version. You're dealing with mathematical formulas
> involving matrices here, so subscripting seems appropriate, and
> enumerating out rows and columns just feels weird to me.
> 
> That said, I also prefer how the third version pulls the last column
> of each row out of the inner loop instead of using a verbose
> conditional expression that you already know will be false for every
> column except the last one. Do that in the first version, and I think
> you've got it.

But shouldn't the maths transcend the slight change in representation? A programmer in the J language might have a conceptually neater representation of the same thing due to its grounding in arrays (maybe) and for a J representation it would become J-thonic. In Python, it is usual to iterate over collections and also to use enumerate where we must have indices. 

Could it be that there is a also a strong pull in the direction of using indices because that is what is predominantly given in the way matrix maths is likely to be expressed mathematically? A case of "TeX likes indices so we should too"?


From orgnut at yahoo.com  Sat Apr 18 01:28:29 2015
From: orgnut at yahoo.com (Larry Hudson)
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 2015 22:28:29 -0700
Subject: New to Python - block grouping (spaces)
In-Reply-To: <mailman.388.1429323788.12925.python-list@python.org>
References: <9fc57fc9-0399-4ff3-882a-d041f02827d8@googlegroups.com>
 <6580b5d5-92f5-4bfa-b1d0-889c69fe82bb@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.374.1429285961.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <mgrcb5$sn2$1@reader1.panix.com> <Y3bYw.302660$ms.24839@fx30.am4>
 <mailman.388.1429323788.12925.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <8emdnR6R2KAVdqzInZ2dnUU7-KudnZ2d@giganews.com>

On 04/17/2015 07:22 PM, Ben Finney wrote:
> BartC <bc at freeuk.com> writes:
>
>> (Actually *I* would quite like to know why languages don't have
>> switchable syntax anyway to allow for people's personal preferences.)
>
> Which people's personal preferences? Are these the same people who have
> such passionate disagreement about tabs versus spaces?
>
> If you only write programs that will only ever be read by you and no-one
> else, feel free to maintain a fork of Python (or any other language)
> that suits your personal preferences.
>
> Too much effort? Or maybe you sometimes want others, whose preferences
> may not exactly match yours, to collaborate on programs you write? Then
> I think you have your answer of why such personal perferences are not
> switchable in the languages we actually use.
>
I always find discussions like these rather amusing.

 From a practical standpoint, no matter now passionately someone feels about this sort of thing, 
it is ultimately totally irrelevant.  The language (whatever language or subject it is) is 
already defined.  You either use it as it exists or go on to something else.  EOD! 
(End-of-discussion).

The exception, of course, is if you are actively involved in the defining and creating something 
new.  But otherwise, take it or leave it.

Naturally you are permitted to have your own opinions, whether passionate or otherwise, but it's 
not worth arguing about.

      -=- Larry -=-



From no.email at nospam.invalid  Sat Apr 18 01:32:36 2015
From: no.email at nospam.invalid (Paul Rubin)
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 2015 22:32:36 -0700
Subject: PEP 492, new coroutine syntax for Python
References: <87fv7yjdw7.fsf@jester.gateway.pace.com>
 <mailman.390.1429329761.12925.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <87k2xagfwr.fsf@jester.gateway.pace.com>

Chris Angelico <rosuav at gmail.com> writes:
> Hah. It only just hit python-ideas, so you're jumping in on something
> brand new - no wonder it hasn't been mentioned yet :)

Interesting.  It's dated a couple weeks ago and has obviously been in
the works for a while.  There's a working implementation which I'd think
means it's outside the idea phase.

> I think the current proposal has a lot of duplication (it looks like
> there's almost a complete replica of the generator protocol being
> created in parallel), but whatever happens, it's a good thing.

But it's so much cleaner than the existing generator stuff and can
pretty much replace it.  That is the kind of change that Python 3 really
should have been about.

> I strongly recommend jumping over to python-ideas and following along
> - that is, if you're interested enough to drink from the veritable
> fire-hose of -ideas! 

I might take a look at the list archive.  I don't think I could deal
with actually receiving the mailings and trying to keep up with them.

> There's a chance this will land in Python 3.5, but if not, I'd be very
> surprised if it doesn't hit 3.6.  

Neat :).  This paper about Lua coroutines is good and if it hasn't been
part of the PEP discussion and looks relevant, you might want to post it
there:

http://www.jucs.org/jucs_10_7/coroutines_in_lua/de_Moura_A_L.pdf


From rosuav at gmail.com  Sat Apr 18 02:20:38 2015
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Sat, 18 Apr 2015 16:20:38 +1000
Subject: PEP 492, new coroutine syntax for Python
In-Reply-To: <87k2xagfwr.fsf@jester.gateway.pace.com>
References: <87fv7yjdw7.fsf@jester.gateway.pace.com>
 <mailman.390.1429329761.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <87k2xagfwr.fsf@jester.gateway.pace.com>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmrUTUy9n8foU2LG5rXV5c2enDxfxmMgTqcBY_8ygeM0Rw@mail.gmail.com>

On Sat, Apr 18, 2015 at 3:32 PM, Paul Rubin <no.email at nospam.invalid> wrote:
> Chris Angelico <rosuav at gmail.com> writes:
>> Hah. It only just hit python-ideas, so you're jumping in on something
>> brand new - no wonder it hasn't been mentioned yet :)
>
> Interesting.  It's dated a couple weeks ago and has obviously been in
> the works for a while.  There's a working implementation which I'd think
> means it's outside the idea phase.

I'm not sure, but I suspect it's been developed/discussed in a SIG.
Today's the first day I've seen stuff about it.

>> I think the current proposal has a lot of duplication (it looks like
>> there's almost a complete replica of the generator protocol being
>> created in parallel), but whatever happens, it's a good thing.
>
> But it's so much cleaner than the existing generator stuff and can
> pretty much replace it.  That is the kind of change that Python 3 really
> should have been about.

Generators have other uses, but I think the intention is to subsume
all the generator-based coroutine system. You'd have to raise this on
-ideas, though.

>> There's a chance this will land in Python 3.5, but if not, I'd be very
>> surprised if it doesn't hit 3.6.
>
> Neat :).  This paper about Lua coroutines is good and if it hasn't been
> part of the PEP discussion and looks relevant, you might want to post it
> there:
>
> http://www.jucs.org/jucs_10_7/coroutines_in_lua/de_Moura_A_L.pdf

I hate to say TLDR, but it's the truth here. I'm posting from theatre
(we're performing The Merry Widow and I'm checking in between follow
spot cues... yeah, I'm insane), and don't have time this week to
evaluate a paper like that on a subject that I'm not an expert on.
Either someone else who subscribes to both python-list and
python-ideas will post it, or you'll have to join -ideas yourself,
sorry.

ChrisA


From marko at pacujo.net  Sat Apr 18 02:53:33 2015
From: marko at pacujo.net (Marko Rauhamaa)
Date: Sat, 18 Apr 2015 09:53:33 +0300
Subject: New to Python - block grouping (spaces)
References: <9fc57fc9-0399-4ff3-882a-d041f02827d8@googlegroups.com>
 <6580b5d5-92f5-4bfa-b1d0-889c69fe82bb@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.374.1429285961.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <mgrcb5$sn2$1@reader1.panix.com> <Y3bYw.302660$ms.24839@fx30.am4>
 <mailman.387.1429323295.12925.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <87oammx6z6.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>

Michael Torrie <torriem at gmail.com>:

> There was a version of Python (compatible at a bytecode level) that did
> implement braces for blocks.  It was called pythonb, but it is now
> defunct, understandably for lack of interest.

<URL: http://www.perl.com/pub/2001/04/01/parrot.htm>

   LW: Sure. I'd probably write the program something like this:

       while(@line = Sys::Stdin->readline()):
           continue_next if $line[0] =eq= "#":
           print @line;
       }


Marko


From marko at pacujo.net  Sat Apr 18 03:00:35 2015
From: marko at pacujo.net (Marko Rauhamaa)
Date: Sat, 18 Apr 2015 10:00:35 +0300
Subject: New to Python - block grouping (spaces)
References: <9fc57fc9-0399-4ff3-882a-d041f02827d8@googlegroups.com>
 <6580b5d5-92f5-4bfa-b1d0-889c69fe82bb@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.374.1429285961.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <mgrcb5$sn2$1@reader1.panix.com> <Y3bYw.302660$ms.24839@fx30.am4>
 <mailman.388.1429323788.12925.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <87k2x9yl7w.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>

Ben Finney <ben+python at benfinney.id.au>:

> If you only write programs that will only ever be read by you and
> no-one else, feel free to maintain a fork of Python (or any other
> language) that suits your personal preferences.

It would be possible to define a canonical AST storage format. Then,
your editor could "incarnate" the AST in the syntax of your choosing.

A Python source file is an AST storage format, only it's not canonical.
IOW, more than one Python source file can produce identical AST's. That
isn't a problem for the specialized editors but it can be a problem for
text editors, source code control etc.


Marko


From rustompmody at gmail.com  Sat Apr 18 03:13:57 2015
From: rustompmody at gmail.com (Rustom Mody)
Date: Sat, 18 Apr 2015 00:13:57 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: New to Python - block grouping (spaces)
In-Reply-To: <87k2x9yl7w.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
References: <9fc57fc9-0399-4ff3-882a-d041f02827d8@googlegroups.com>
 <6580b5d5-92f5-4bfa-b1d0-889c69fe82bb@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.374.1429285961.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <mgrcb5$sn2$1@reader1.panix.com> <Y3bYw.302660$ms.24839@fx30.am4>
 <mailman.388.1429323788.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <87k2x9yl7w.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
Message-ID: <6fc75a64-5c38-4dfa-b45b-7576b454dfab@googlegroups.com>

On Saturday, April 18, 2015 at 12:30:49 PM UTC+5:30, Marko Rauhamaa wrote:
> Ben Finney :
> 
> > If you only write programs that will only ever be read by you and
> > no-one else, feel free to maintain a fork of Python (or any other
> > language) that suits your personal preferences.
> 
> It would be possible to define a canonical AST storage format. Then,
> your editor could "incarnate" the AST in the syntax of your choosing.
> 
> A Python source file is an AST storage format, only it's not canonical.
> IOW, more than one Python source file can produce identical AST's. That
> isn't a problem for the specialized editors but it can be a problem for
> text editors, source code control etc.

Things like comments are a headache -- they have to be shoved into the AST rather
artificially


From marko at pacujo.net  Sat Apr 18 03:35:54 2015
From: marko at pacujo.net (Marko Rauhamaa)
Date: Sat, 18 Apr 2015 10:35:54 +0300
Subject: PEP 492, new coroutine syntax for Python
References: <87fv7yjdw7.fsf@jester.gateway.pace.com>
 <mailman.390.1429329761.12925.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <87fv7xyjl1.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>

Chris Angelico <rosuav at gmail.com>:

> On Sat, Apr 18, 2015 at 1:47 PM, Paul Rubin <no.email at nospam.invalid> wrote:
>> I don't remember anyone mentioning this here yet, and it is mighty cool:
>>
>> https://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0492/
>
> [...]
>
> And yes, it IS cool. I think the current proposal has a lot of
> duplication (it looks like there's almost a complete replica of the
> generator protocol being created in parallel), but whatever happens,
> it's a good thing.

I'm not sold on this coroutine fad. Deep down it's a rehash of the old
false promise of thread programming: you can write reactive, scalable
programs linearly.

Reactive systems are complex and messy. In my experience the mess is
managed most clearly when the participating state machines have a
prominent place in the program text. IOW, you should *highlight* states
with names that stick out. Threads and coroutines *downplay* states.

Threads and coroutines look neat when they expect only one kind of input
in any given state. At least coroutines (unlike threads) can be
interrupted from the outside. However, implementing a state with
multiple alternative stimuli easily results in lengthy, deeply-nested,
messy code.

To minimize the mess, what ends up happening is that you start one
peripheral coroutine (or thread) per input source and have it convert
the stimulus into method calls (callbacks). IOW, coroutines take the
role of interrupt handlers.

But then, I think that's a lot of conceptual and design machinery for
such a simple thing. Callback dispatching from select.epoll() achieves
the same objective.

Now, the PEP proposal text mentions asynchronous database calls as an
example. If coroutines are the price of asynchronizing database access,
maybe the price is worth the prize.


Marko


From marko at pacujo.net  Sat Apr 18 03:42:07 2015
From: marko at pacujo.net (Marko Rauhamaa)
Date: Sat, 18 Apr 2015 10:42:07 +0300
Subject: New to Python - block grouping (spaces)
References: <9fc57fc9-0399-4ff3-882a-d041f02827d8@googlegroups.com>
 <6580b5d5-92f5-4bfa-b1d0-889c69fe82bb@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.374.1429285961.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <mgrcb5$sn2$1@reader1.panix.com> <Y3bYw.302660$ms.24839@fx30.am4>
 <mailman.388.1429323788.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <87k2x9yl7w.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <6fc75a64-5c38-4dfa-b45b-7576b454dfab@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <87bnilyjao.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>

Rustom Mody <rustompmody at gmail.com>:

>> It would be possible to define a canonical AST storage format. Then,
>> your editor could "incarnate" the AST in the syntax of your choosing.
>> 
>> [...]
>
> Things like comments are a headache -- they have to be shoved into the
> AST rather artificially

I don't think comments would be so bad assuming you don't write comments
like this:

     result = principal * (1 + interest_rate / 100)
     # expressed as percentage ^^^^^^^^^^^^^

I know, I know -- that's a lot to assume.


Marko


From farookrceg at gmail.com  Sat Apr 18 03:56:46 2015
From: farookrceg at gmail.com (Ahamed Farook)
Date: Sat, 18 Apr 2015 13:26:46 +0530
Subject: sorting list by multiple criteria and grouping alphabetically in
 python
Message-ID: <CALZ7wOdXUppPThq+3R7pJthu7br4OqjfCMrEpkteYRBouR0_fA@mail.gmail.com>

I have a list named "lsNearCities" which contains "states" and "cities" in
it. And I write the values in the list to csv where the column will be in
the order of city and state. And also I did sorting based on the state
first and cities second. Now I want the csv to be printed as shown below.
How can it be done? Please help me in this.

*Csv at present*

Abbeville TX

Bakerhill TX

Abernant GA

Bangor GA

Alabaster AL

Berry AL

*Csv i needed*

Alabaster AL

Berry AL

Abernant GA

Bangor GA

Abbeville TX

Bakerhill TX

And my code is

lsNearCities = []
idx = layer.fieldNameIndex('name')  #name of the attribute column with
the cities in it
idx1 = layer.fieldNameIndex('state')
nearCity = f.attributes()[idx]
state = f.attributes()[idx1]
state_and_cities = nearCity + "," + str(state)
lsNearCities.append(state_and_cities)
sorted(lsNearCities, key=operator.itemgetter(1,0))
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/attachments/20150418/aae99a0e/attachment.html>

From paddy3118 at gmail.com  Sat Apr 18 04:08:43 2015
From: paddy3118 at gmail.com (Paddy)
Date: Sat, 18 Apr 2015 01:08:43 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Need opinions on P vs NP
In-Reply-To: <734ce510-16d7-4ccb-9fd1-8e0db646114b@googlegroups.com>
References: <f2e51cb7-dbcf-4679-baf3-9b006b82e08c@googlegroups.com>
 <734ce510-16d7-4ccb-9fd1-8e0db646114b@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <23cb60d6-1cdf-4b77-a523-f0b187a49be0@googlegroups.com>

On Saturday, 18 April 2015 08:09:06 UTC+1, wxjm... at gmail.com  wrote:
> Le samedi 18 avril 2015 03:19:40 UTC+2, Paddy a ?crit?:
> > Having just seen Raymond's talk on Beyond PEP-8 here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wf-BqAjZb8M, it reminded me of my own recent post where I am soliciting opinions from non-newbies on the relative Pythonicity of different versions of a routine that has non-simple array manipulations.
> > 
> > The blog post: http://paddy3118.blogspot.co.uk/2015/04/pythonic-matrix-manipulation.html
> > 
> > The first, (and original), code sample:
> > 
> > def cholesky(A):
> >     L = [[0.0] * len(A) for _ in range(len(A))]
> >     for i in range(len(A)):
> >         for j in range(i+1):
> >             s = sum(L[i][k] * L[j][k] for k in range(j))
> >             L[i][j] = sqrt(A[i][i] - s) if (i == j) else \
> >                       (1.0 / L[j][j] * (A[i][j] - s))
> >     return L
> > 
> > 
> > The second equivalent code sample:
> > 
> > def cholesky2(A):
> >     L = [[0.0] * len(A) for _ in range(len(A))]
> >     for i, (Ai, Li) in enumerate(zip(A, L)):
> >         for j, Lj in enumerate(L[:i+1]):
> >             s = sum(Li[k] * Lj[k] for k in range(j))
> >             Li[j] = sqrt(Ai[i] - s) if (i == j) else \
> >                       (1.0 / Lj[j] * (Ai[j] - s))
> >     return L
> > 
> > 
> > The third:
> > 
> > def cholesky3(A):
> >     L = [[0.0] * len(A) for _ in range(len(A))]
> >     for i, (Ai, Li) in enumerate(zip(A, L)):
> >         for j, Lj in enumerate(L[:i]):
> >             #s = fsum(Li[k] * Lj[k] for k in range(j))
> >             s = fsum(Lik * Ljk for Lik, Ljk in zip(Li, Lj[:j]))
> >             Li[j] = (1.0 / Lj[j] * (Ai[j] - s))
> >         s = fsum(Lik * Lik for Lik in Li[:i])
> >         Li[i] = sqrt(Ai[i] - s)
> >     return L
> > 
> > My blog post gives a little more explanation, but I have yet to receive any comments on relative Pythonicity.
> 
> ========
> 
> def cholesky999(A):
>     n = len(A)
>     L = [[0.0] * n for i in range(n)]
>     for i in range(n):
>         for j in range(i+1):
>             s = 0.0
>             for k in range(j):
>                 s += L[i][k] * L[j][k]
>             if i == j:
>                 L[i][j] = sqrt(A[i][i] - s)
>             else:
>                 L[i][j] = (1.0 / L[j][j] * (A[i][j] - s))
>     return L
> 
> Simple, clear, logical, consistant.

And so most Pythonic? Maybe so.


From edreamleo at gmail.com  Sat Apr 18 06:24:57 2015
From: edreamleo at gmail.com (edreamleo at gmail.com)
Date: Sat, 18 Apr 2015 03:24:57 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Huh?  No way to markup announcements here?
Message-ID: <396c4a72-463d-4bc8-8832-7dae00c5fd8f@googlegroups.com>

Many google groups support markdown or other markup.

I see no mention of markup here:
https://www.python.org/community/clpya-guidelines.txt/

Is there any way to format announcements?  If so, how.  If not, why not?

Edward


From jon+usenet at unequivocal.co.uk  Sat Apr 18 06:34:11 2015
From: jon+usenet at unequivocal.co.uk (Jon Ribbens)
Date: Sat, 18 Apr 2015 10:34:11 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Huh?  No way to markup announcements here?
References: <396c4a72-463d-4bc8-8832-7dae00c5fd8f@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <slrnmj4cqt.bgs.jon+usenet@frosty.unequivocal.co.uk>

On 2015-04-18, edreamleo at gmail.com <edreamleo at gmail.com> wrote:
> Many google groups support markdown or other markup.
>
> I see no mention of markup here:
> https://www.python.org/community/clpya-guidelines.txt/
>
> Is there any way to format announcements?  If so, how.  If not, why not?

Because this is not a "google group", it is a Usenet group,
and Usenet groups are plaintext-only.


From mail at timgolden.me.uk  Sat Apr 18 06:36:34 2015
From: mail at timgolden.me.uk (Tim Golden)
Date: Sat, 18 Apr 2015 11:36:34 +0100
Subject: Huh?  No way to markup announcements here?
In-Reply-To: <396c4a72-463d-4bc8-8832-7dae00c5fd8f@googlegroups.com>
References: <396c4a72-463d-4bc8-8832-7dae00c5fd8f@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <553233B2.9070907@timgolden.me.uk>

On 18/04/2015 11:24, edreamleo at gmail.com wrote:
> Many google groups support markdown or other markup.
>
> I see no mention of markup here:
> https://www.python.org/community/clpya-guidelines.txt/
>
> Is there any way to format announcements?  If so, how.  If not, why not?

Because this is not, primarily, a Google Group. Depending on your 
perspective it's either a Usenet group (comp.lang.python) or a mailing 
list (python-list). Services such as Google Groups, gmane or various 
web-based portals are interacting with one or other of those (last time 
I looked: GG was using nntp and gmane the mailing list).

Both of those services -- Usenet & Mailing list -- are traditionally 
plain text. One could certainly make a case for the uniquity and 
helpfulness of standard HTML markup, but I'm afraid that's unlikely to 
cut any ice in the face of a long-established and usually useful convention.

Obviously you could use some established text markup such as ReST or 
markdown which is quite readable in plain text but which *could* be 
rendered to HTML by a suitable reader.

TJG


From skip.montanaro at gmail.com  Sat Apr 18 08:50:13 2015
From: skip.montanaro at gmail.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Sat, 18 Apr 2015 07:50:13 -0500
Subject: Importing/migrating Mailman mbox files into Google Groups?
In-Reply-To: <20150418003351.GA84797@cskk.homeip.net>
References: <CANc-5Uw9cBhuZ6qOAAFDmZhtpqhO8ZbyEALw1MyJ06b0PVVG8Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <20150418003351.GA84797@cskk.homeip.net>
Message-ID: <CANc-5UzOwWhSUrSYsrFa4taQNcnen7gHTQ9zFf18ghLy9rT9Dg@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Apr 17, 2015 at 7:33 PM, Cameron Simpson <cs at zip.com.au> wrote:
> However, before you get very excited see if people can get messages back out
> of the archive. A major annoyance for me with GGroups versus mailman is that
> if I join a group I cannot download the historical archive. (This is a
> standard step for me when I join a mailing list. I hear mailman 3 might be
> tossing this facility; I am unimpressed.)

I'll clarify briefly. The archives are from a now-defunct mailing list
which accumulated about 190k posts during its nearly ten-year life.
The only interface to the archives is a rather feeble search
interface. There is no way to just read through the archives in
chronological fashion. I know Google Groups isn't very popular here,
but trust me, it would provide a much better interface to these
archives than the current search interface. I will obviously verify
that the messages can be read through GG before dumping all of them
into this archive.

Skip


From breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk  Sat Apr 18 10:26:05 2015
From: breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk (Mark Lawrence)
Date: Sat, 18 Apr 2015 15:26:05 +0100
Subject: Calling back into Python from llvmlite-JITed code
Message-ID: <mgtpi3$4vk$1@ger.gmane.org>

An article from Eli Bendersky that I found interesting, maybe the same 
applies to you.

http://eli.thegreenplace.net/2015/calling-back-into-python-from-llvmlite-jited-code/

-- 
My fellow Pythonistas, ask not what our language can do for you, ask
what you can do for our language.

Mark Lawrence



From pkpearson at nowhere.invalid  Sat Apr 18 13:05:08 2015
From: pkpearson at nowhere.invalid (Peter Pearson)
Date: 18 Apr 2015 17:05:08 GMT
Subject: Huh?  No way to markup announcements here?
References: <396c4a72-463d-4bc8-8832-7dae00c5fd8f@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.392.1429353405.12925.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <cpfh64F81gkU1@mid.individual.net>

On Sat, 18 Apr 2015 11:36:34 +0100, Tim Golden <mail at timgolden.me.uk> wrote:
> On 18/04/2015 11:24, edreamleo at gmail.com wrote:
[snip]
>> Is there any way to format announcements?  If so, how.  If not, why not?
[snip]
> Both of those services -- Usenet & Mailing list -- are traditionally 
> plain text. One could certainly make a case for the uniquity and 
> helpfulness of standard HTML markup, but I'm afraid that's unlikely to 
> cut any ice in the face of a long-established and usually useful convention.
>
> Obviously you could use some established text markup such as ReST or 
> markdown which is quite readable in plain text but which *could* be 
> rendered to HTML by a suitable reader.

If I might, for a moment, play the role of the Tiresome Geezer,
let me observe, as a Usenet fan since the 1980's, that Usenet has been
enormously useful, convenient, and reliable.  Browsers and HTML are
great, and I use them far more than Usenet; but you always need to upgrade
to some Even Newer Adobe Flash Player, and there are five new Urgent Security
Releases every month, and I can't concentrate while that damn advertisement
is flashing, and if you enable Javascript the Russian mafia
will use your computer to spam your neighbors but if you don't then
all the cool sites come up blank.  Usenet, in contrast, just keeps
on working.

-- 
To email me, substitute nowhere->runbox, invalid->com.


From gouzounakis at hotmail.com  Sat Apr 18 13:07:03 2015
From: gouzounakis at hotmail.com (D. Xenakis)
Date: Sat, 18 Apr 2015 10:07:03 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: HELP! How to return the returned value from a threaded function
Message-ID: <0d2087e0-e0ab-42da-9f73-48b55f4bb478@googlegroups.com>

Maybe this is pretty simple but seems I am stuck...

def message_function():
    return "HelloWorld!"


def thread_maker():
    """
    call message_function()
    using a new thread
    and return it's "HelloWorld!"
    """
    pass


Could someone please complete above script so that:

thread_maker() == "HelloWorld!"

Please import the library you suggest too.
I tried threading but I could not make it work.

THX!


From no.email at nospam.invalid  Sat Apr 18 13:28:32 2015
From: no.email at nospam.invalid (Paul Rubin)
Date: Sat, 18 Apr 2015 10:28:32 -0700
Subject: HELP! How to return the returned value from a threaded function
References: <0d2087e0-e0ab-42da-9f73-48b55f4bb478@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <87y4lp4a7z.fsf@jester.gateway.pace.com>

"D. Xenakis" <gouzounakis at hotmail.com> writes:
> Maybe this is pretty simple but seems I am stuck...
thread_maker() == "HelloWorld!"

This sounds like homework... what have you tried, and what happened?

Have you looked at the docs of the threading module?


From gouzounakis at hotmail.com  Sat Apr 18 13:50:47 2015
From: gouzounakis at hotmail.com (D. Xenakis)
Date: Sat, 18 Apr 2015 10:50:47 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: HELP! How to return the returned value from a threaded function
In-Reply-To: <87y4lp4a7z.fsf@jester.gateway.pace.com>
References: <0d2087e0-e0ab-42da-9f73-48b55f4bb478@googlegroups.com>
 <87y4lp4a7z.fsf@jester.gateway.pace.com>
Message-ID: <d6486ff5-3cbe-4be0-b460-882d5a953dc2@googlegroups.com>

> This sounds like homework... what have you tried, and what happened?

heheh naaah no cheating here. I just provided the example this way to make as clear as possible what I want to do. Return the returned value from a threaded function.

apparently this does not work as I hoped: 
return Thread(target=message_function).start()

> Have you looked at the docs of the threading module?
Lost in there


From albert at spenarnc.xs4all.nl  Sat Apr 18 13:52:48 2015
From: albert at spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst)
Date: 18 Apr 2015 17:52:48 GMT
Subject: generator/coroutine terminology
References: <ff0bc8eb-63e4-40ea-8d31-301625a3d470@googlegroups.com>
 <55062bda$0$12998$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <551a9ebe$0$2987$e4fe514c@dreader35.news.xs4all.nl>
 <551e2cfd$0$11123$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <553299ef$0$21225$e4fe514c@dreader37.news.xs4all.nl>

In article <551e2cfd$0$11123$c3e8da3 at news.astraweb.com>,
Steven D'Aprano  <steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info> wrote:
>On Wednesday 01 April 2015 00:18, Albert van der Horst wrote:
>
>> In article <55062bda$0$12998$c3e8da3$5496439d at news.astraweb.com>,
>> Steven D'Aprano  <steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info> wrote:
>
>>>The biggest difference is syntactic. Here's an iterator which returns a
>>>never-ending sequence of squared numbers 1, 4, 9, 16, ...
>>>
>>>class Squares:
>>>    def __init__(self):
>>>        self.i = 0
>>>    def __next__(self):
>>>        self.i += 1
>>>        return self.i**2
>>>    def __iter__(self):
>>>        return self
>>
>> You should give an example of usage. As a newby I'm not up to
>> figuring out the specification from source for
>> something built of the mysterious __ internal
>> thingies.
>> (I did experiment with Squares interactively. But I didn't get
>> further than creating a Squares object.)
>
>
>Ah, sorry about that!
>
>Usage is:
>
>it = Squares()  # create an iterator
>print(next(it))  # print the first value
>x = next(it)  # extract the second
>while x < 100:
>    print(x)
>    x = next(it)
>
>
>Beware of doing this:
>
>for x in Squares():
>    print(x)
>
>since Squares is an *infinite* generator, it will continue for ever if you
>let it. Fortunately you can hit Ctrl-C to interrupt the for loop at any
>point.
>
>In Python 2, you will need to rename __next__ to just next without the
>double-leading-and-trailing underscores.
>
>
>>>Here's the same thing written as a generator:
>>>
>>>def squares():
>>>    i = 1
>>>    while True:
>>>        yield i**2
>>>        i += 1
>
>And for this one:
>
>it = squares()  # create the iterator
>print(next(it))  # print the first value
>x = next(it)  # extract the second
>while x < 100:
>    print(x)
>    x = next(it)
>
>
>Usage is pretty much exactly the same.

Thanks, I get it now. next and yield are more or less
switching between coroutines.

>
>
>--
>Steve
>
-- 
Albert van der Horst, UTRECHT,THE NETHERLANDS
Economic growth -- being exponential -- ultimately falters.
albert at spe&ar&c.xs4all.nl &=n http://home.hccnet.nl/a.w.m.van.der.horst



From dihedral88888 at gmail.com  Sat Apr 18 14:07:13 2015
From: dihedral88888 at gmail.com (CHIN Dihedral)
Date: Sat, 18 Apr 2015 11:07:13 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: generator/coroutine terminology
In-Reply-To: <8761a5s0he.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
References: <ff0bc8eb-63e4-40ea-8d31-301625a3d470@googlegroups.com>
 <5501be8b$0$13006$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <ccd600f8-672e-4993-adb8-d007b521a110@googlegroups.com>
 <87twxqqewm.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <4eec1709-dd11-4891-bfcc-60b27bb00ee3@googlegroups.com>
 <550259bf$0$12975$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <c06f2e50-8c40-4a2f-bf2a-a9eae61760d6@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.314.1426235017.21433.python-list@python.org>
 <00d9152a-f391-4c64-b2bd-52bdec2a6b67@googlegroups.com>
 <8761a5s0he.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
Message-ID: <5274cb0a-5602-4cf2-8f74-8d32af3e1d48@googlegroups.com>

On Friday, March 13, 2015 at 5:36:35 PM UTC+8, Marko Rauhamaa wrote:
> Rustom Mody <rustompmody at gmail.com>:
> 
> > Nice demo of the same confusing terminology we are talking about.
> 
> Why don't you just stick with the terminology of the language
> specification? I think your students are going to be more confused if
> you try to come up with something better.
> 
> > When I say "expect generators to close" I mean 'generator-instances'
> > ie at runtime
> >
> > When you say "expect both to close with return" you are talking of
> > program-texts ie the 'factory'
> >
> > [Or I am guilty of the same I am accusing python of]
> 
> Your 'factory' is a:
> 
>     generator
>         A function which returns an iterator.
>     <URL: https://docs.python.org/3/glossary.html>
> 
> Your 'generator-instance' is an:
> 
>     iterator
>         An object representing a stream of data.
>     <URL: https://docs.python.org/3/glossary.html>
> 
> I don't think you should read much into what str(obj) returns. It's not
> much more than a random printable some CPython coder has cooked up in
> the heat of the moment.
> 
> 
> Marko

Well, the functional that returns a function instance which can be used
as an interator  is also a function. 

Well, some might use terms in generics programming as described in the book by Gangs of 4. 



From albert at spenarnc.xs4all.nl  Sat Apr 18 14:08:02 2015
From: albert at spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst)
Date: 18 Apr 2015 18:08:02 GMT
Subject: Best search algorithm to find condition within a range
References: <2e3a3c01-20b3-4948-9b32-bd80ed46822b@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.89.1428413413.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <mg0pjk$8qs$2@dont-email.me>
 <fd544688-5e9c-418e-9ca9-11b9bcb83186@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <55329d82$0$21225$e4fe514c@dreader37.news.xs4all.nl>

In article <fd544688-5e9c-418e-9ca9-11b9bcb83186 at googlegroups.com>,
 <jonas.thornvall at gmail.com> wrote:
>Den tisdag 7 april 2015 kl. 16:30:15 UTC+2 skrev Denis McMahon:
>> On Tue, 07 Apr 2015 09:29:59 -0400, Dave Angel wrote:
>>
>> > On 04/07/2015 05:44 AM, jonas.thornvall at gmail.com wrote:
>>
>> >> I want todo faster baseconversion for very big bases like base 1 000
>> >> 000, so instead of adding up digits i search it.
>>
>> > How do you know the baseconversion is the bottleneck, if you haven't
>> > written any Python code yet?
>>
>> He doesn't. He doesn't comprehend that as far as a computer is concerned
>> an integer has no specific 'base', it's only when presented in a form for
>> humans to read that it gets base information added in the representation.
>>
>> He's making these and other similar errors in the javascript groups too.
>>
>> I suspect he's one of those people that spends his time thinking up
>> elaborate solutions that he has no idea how to implement as a response to
>> dreamt up non existent problems.
>>
>> --
>> Denis McMahon, denismfmcmahon at gmail.com
>
>Bullshit declare two integers in any language one 7 and one 4 and then
>write x=7+4; if you find a programming language where that does not
>yield 11 tell me.
>
>Integers are internally assumed to be base 10 otherwise you could not
>calculate without giving the base.
>
>All operations on integers addition, subtraction, multiplication and
>division assume base 10.

Fire up a lowlevel interpreter like Forth. (e.g. gforth)

7 CONSTANT A    4 CONSTANT B
A B + PAD !

PAD now contains the sum of A and B.

Now inspect the actual computer memory:

PAD 100 DUMP

You will see the bytes, represented in base 16, but PAD
just contains 11

PAD ?

11 OK

In forth you can change the number base. That doesn't affect PAD
but the output is different

HEX
PAD ?

B OK
DECIMAL

Groetjes Albert
-- 
Albert van der Horst, UTRECHT,THE NETHERLANDS
Economic growth -- being exponential -- ultimately falters.
albert at spe&ar&c.xs4all.nl &=n http://home.hccnet.nl/a.w.m.van.der.horst



From santiago.basulto at gmail.com  Sat Apr 18 15:13:31 2015
From: santiago.basulto at gmail.com (santiago.basulto at gmail.com)
Date: Sat, 18 Apr 2015 12:13:31 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Custom format a la datetime
Message-ID: <4e788ece-b695-4336-8d0e-1531f93d57dc@googlegroups.com>

Hello everybody. I'm writing a CLI program to do some search. It's an internal tool. I'd like to provide the option to my user to format the results as he/she'd like. Something similar to strftime on the datetime module.

Example:

    from datetime import datetime
    d = datetime.utcnow()
    d.strftime("%Y-%m-%d")  # '2015-04-18'
    d.strftime("%y-%m-%d")  # '15-04-18'
    d.strftime("Today it's the %dth day in the %mth month of %Y") # 'Today it's the 18th day in the 04th month of 2015' # Don't pay attention to ordinals, just simple example.

Now, an example of with my application. Suppose my app search cars:

    python search_cars.py -F "Brand %B, model %m, year %Y"  # Brand Ford, model Focus, year 1996
    python search_cars.py -F "%B - %m (%y)"  # Ford - Focus (96)

I'd provide my user with a table like:

%B = Brand
%m = Model
%Y = Year format YYYY
%y = Year format YY
%s = Seller name
... etc...

Thanks a lot for your help!


From no.email at nospam.invalid  Sat Apr 18 16:17:55 2015
From: no.email at nospam.invalid (Paul Rubin)
Date: Sat, 18 Apr 2015 13:17:55 -0700
Subject: HELP! How to return the returned value from a threaded function
References: <0d2087e0-e0ab-42da-9f73-48b55f4bb478@googlegroups.com>
 <87y4lp4a7z.fsf@jester.gateway.pace.com>
 <d6486ff5-3cbe-4be0-b460-882d5a953dc2@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <87twwd42do.fsf@jester.gateway.pace.com>

"D. Xenakis" <gouzounakis at hotmail.com> writes:
>> Have you looked at the docs of the threading module?
> Lost in there

You should probably read a book about operating systems to get a sense
of how the stuff in there works.  The software docs assume you're
familiar with the basic principles that you would get from a book or
from taking a class.


From __peter__ at web.de  Sat Apr 18 16:29:03 2015
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Sat, 18 Apr 2015 22:29:03 +0200
Subject: Custom format a la datetime
References: <4e788ece-b695-4336-8d0e-1531f93d57dc@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <mgueqf$2hk$1@ger.gmane.org>

santiago.basulto at gmail.com wrote:

> Hello everybody. I'm writing a CLI program to do some search. It's an
> internal tool. I'd like to provide the option to my user to format the
> results as he/she'd like. Something similar to strftime on the datetime
> module.
> 
> Example:
> 
>     from datetime import datetime
>     d = datetime.utcnow()
>     d.strftime("%Y-%m-%d")  # '2015-04-18'
>     d.strftime("%y-%m-%d")  # '15-04-18'
>     d.strftime("Today it's the %dth day in the %mth month of %Y") # 'Today
>     it's the 18th day in the 04th month of 2015' # Don't pay attention to
>     ordinals, just simple example.
> 
> Now, an example of with my application. Suppose my app search cars:
> 
>     python search_cars.py -F "Brand %B, model %m, year %Y"  # Brand Ford,
>     model Focus, year 1996
>     python search_cars.py -F "%B - %m (%y)"  # Ford - Focus (96)
> 
> I'd provide my user with a table like:
> 
> %B = Brand
> %m = Model
> %Y = Year format YYYY
> %y = Year format YY
> %s = Seller name
> ... etc...
> 
> Thanks a lot for your help!

Make a dict to map the format to a function that extracts the value you are 
interested in from a record you found with your search. Then replace the 
format in the template with the value returned from that function.

>>> import re
>>> record = dict(brand="Ford", model="Focus", year=1996)
>>> format = {"B": lambda r: r["brand"],
... "m": lambda r: r["model"],
... "Y": lambda r: str(r["year"]),
... "y": lambda r: "{:02}".format(r["year"] % 100),
... }
>>> template = "Brand %B, model %m, year %Y"
>>> re.compile("%(.)").sub(lambda m: format[m.group(1)](record), template)
'Brand Ford, model Focus, year 1996'
>>> template = "%B - %m (%y)"
>>> re.compile("%(.)").sub(lambda m: format[m.group(1)](record), template)
'Ford - Focus (96)'

To allow literal % signs add

format = {
    ...
    "%": lambda r: "%"
}

to the lookup dict.

For alternative approaches have a look at string.Template, str.format() etc.





From python at mrabarnett.plus.com  Sat Apr 18 17:01:25 2015
From: python at mrabarnett.plus.com (MRAB)
Date: Sat, 18 Apr 2015 22:01:25 +0100
Subject: HELP! How to return the returned value from a threaded function
In-Reply-To: <d6486ff5-3cbe-4be0-b460-882d5a953dc2@googlegroups.com>
References: <0d2087e0-e0ab-42da-9f73-48b55f4bb478@googlegroups.com>
 <87y4lp4a7z.fsf@jester.gateway.pace.com>
 <d6486ff5-3cbe-4be0-b460-882d5a953dc2@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <5532C625.70507@mrabarnett.plus.com>

On 2015-04-18 18:50, D. Xenakis wrote:
>> This sounds like homework... what have you tried, and what happened?
>
> heheh naaah no cheating here. I just provided the example this way to make as clear as possible what I want to do. Return the returned value from a threaded function.
>
> apparently this does not work as I hoped:
> return Thread(target=message_function).start()
>
>> Have you looked at the docs of the threading module?
> Lost in there
>
It would be pointless to start a thread to do some work and then wait
for it to finish; you might as well do the work yourself!

The point of threads is to do work in parallel (actually, that doesn't
work that well on CPython because of the GIL) or wait for something
that could take a while to respond in the background so that you can
continue working on something else in the meantime.

The best way of communicating with another thread is via queues: the
background thread puts its results into a queue that the main thread
can then read.


From davea at davea.name  Sat Apr 18 18:27:34 2015
From: davea at davea.name (Dave Angel)
Date: Sat, 18 Apr 2015 18:27:34 -0400
Subject: HELP! How to return the returned value from a threaded function
In-Reply-To: <0d2087e0-e0ab-42da-9f73-48b55f4bb478@googlegroups.com>
References: <0d2087e0-e0ab-42da-9f73-48b55f4bb478@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <5532DA56.1010301@davea.name>

On 04/18/2015 01:07 PM, D. Xenakis wrote:
> Maybe this is pretty simple but seems I am stuck...
>
> def message_function():
>      return "HelloWorld!"
>
>
> def thread_maker():
>      """
>      call message_function()
>      using a new thread
>      and return it's "HelloWorld!"
>      """
>      pass
>
>
> Could someone please complete above script so that:
>
> thread_maker() == "HelloWorld!"
>
> Please import the library you suggest too.
> I tried threading but I could not make it work.
>
> THX!
>

The first question is why you are even starting extra threads.  They are 
only useful if they do concurrent work.  So if you're starting a thread, 
then not doing anything yourself till the thread terminates, you've 
gained absolutely nothing.  And greatly complicated your code besides.

In fact, even if you start multiple threads, and/or continue doing your 
own work in the main thread, you might not gain anything in CPython, 
because of the GIL.

But if I assume you've justified the use of threads, or your 
boss/instructor has mandated them, then you still have to decide what 
the flow of logic is going to mean.

If you're going to start a bunch of threads, wait a while, and do 
something with the "return values" of some subset of them, then all you 
need is a way to tell whether those threads have yet posted their 
results.  If there's exactly one result per thread, then all you need is 
a global structure with room for all the results, and with an initial 
value that's recognizably different.

So fill a list with None elements, and tell each thread what element of 
the list to update.  Then in your main thread, you trust any list 
element that's no longer equal to None.

Alternatively, you might decide your main program will wait till all the 
threads have terminated.  In that case, instead of checking for None, 
simply do a join on all the threads before using the results.

But many real threaded programs use much more complex interactions, and 
they reuse threads rather than expecting them to terminate as soon as 
one result is available.  So there might not be a single "result" per 
thread, and things get much more complex.  This is where you would 
normally start studying queues.


-- 
DaveA


From cs at zip.com.au  Sat Apr 18 19:42:12 2015
From: cs at zip.com.au (Cameron Simpson)
Date: Sun, 19 Apr 2015 09:42:12 +1000
Subject: Importing/migrating Mailman mbox files into Google Groups?
In-Reply-To: <CANc-5UzOwWhSUrSYsrFa4taQNcnen7gHTQ9zFf18ghLy9rT9Dg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CANc-5UzOwWhSUrSYsrFa4taQNcnen7gHTQ9zFf18ghLy9rT9Dg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20150418234212.GA94463@cskk.homeip.net>

On 18Apr2015 07:50, Skip Montanaro <skip.montanaro at gmail.com> wrote:
>On Fri, Apr 17, 2015 at 7:33 PM, Cameron Simpson <cs at zip.com.au> wrote:
>> However, before you get very excited see if people can get messages back out
>> of the archive. A major annoyance for me with GGroups versus mailman is that
>> if I join a group I cannot download the historical archive. (This is a
>> standard step for me when I join a mailing list. I hear mailman 3 might be
>> tossing this facility; I am unimpressed.)
>
>I'll clarify briefly. The archives are from a now-defunct mailing list
>which accumulated about 190k posts during its nearly ten-year life.
>The only interface to the archives is a rather feeble search
>interface. There is no way to just read through the archives in
>chronological fashion. I know Google Groups isn't very popular here,
>but trust me, it would provide a much better interface to these
>archives than the current search interface. I will obviously verify
>that the messages can be read through GG before dumping all of them
>into this archive.

I think I understood that there was an existing archive. My caveat was more 
something to consider before choosing GGroups (too late, and in any case hardly 
a deal breaker, especially since Google finally cleaned up a lot of their 
HTML/text rendering issues).

Maybe I could suggest, in addition to uploading the archive as raw messages for 
GGroups to present, uploading the archive as a compressed mbox file for members 
to download if they wish a local archive copy.

Cheers,
Cameron Simpson <cs at zip.com.au>

Truly, the ultimate demonstration of the computer's utility is that it
continues to be indispensable in spite of those who run the things.
        - Steve Glass, in e-mail


From skip.montanaro at gmail.com  Sat Apr 18 22:08:39 2015
From: skip.montanaro at gmail.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Sat, 18 Apr 2015 21:08:39 -0500
Subject: Importing/migrating Mailman mbox files into Google Groups?
In-Reply-To: <20150418234212.GA94463@cskk.homeip.net>
References: <CANc-5UzOwWhSUrSYsrFa4taQNcnen7gHTQ9zFf18ghLy9rT9Dg@mail.gmail.com>
 <20150418234212.GA94463@cskk.homeip.net>
Message-ID: <CANc-5Uz=pqT8JfOn0_o61i95cdvARbvbnQsEecCGS9toV94TCA@mail.gmail.com>

On Sat, Apr 18, 2015 at 6:42 PM, Cameron Simpson <cs at zip.com.au> wrote:
> I think I understood that there was an existing archive. My caveat was more
> something to consider before choosing GGroups (too late, and in any case
> hardly a deal breaker, especially since Google finally cleaned up a lot of
> their HTML/text rendering issues).

One more point. The moderator of this defunct list moved the group
from its old place on bikelist.org to Google Groups. It's been there
already for several years. I would propose just stuffing the archives
into the new group except said moderator made the archives of the new
group open only to subscribers. Now that it's been running that way
for several years, it's a bit late to open things up.

> Maybe I could suggest, in addition to uploading the archive as raw messages
> for GGroups to present, uploading the archive as a compressed mbox file for
> members to download if they wish a local archive copy.

I think the existing archives are in MH format. Shouldn't be too
difficult to generate
the usual Mailman-style mbox-file-per-month or perhaps one per year.

Thx,

Skip


From santiago.basulto at gmail.com  Sat Apr 18 22:24:18 2015
From: santiago.basulto at gmail.com (Santiago Basulto)
Date: Sat, 18 Apr 2015 19:24:18 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Custom format a la datetime
In-Reply-To: <mailman.395.1429388951.12925.python-list@python.org>
References: <4e788ece-b695-4336-8d0e-1531f93d57dc@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.395.1429388951.12925.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <fac15708-648b-4e87-9cba-abb43e43f648@googlegroups.com>

On Saturday, April 18, 2015 at 5:29:23 PM UTC-3, Peter Otten wrote:
> santiago.basulto at gmail.com wrote:
> 
> > Hello everybody. I'm writing a CLI program to do some search. It's an
> > internal tool. I'd like to provide the option to my user to format the
> > results as he/she'd like. Something similar to strftime on the datetime
> > module.
> > 
> > Example:
> > 
> >     from datetime import datetime
> >     d = datetime.utcnow()
> >     d.strftime("%Y-%m-%d")  # '2015-04-18'
> >     d.strftime("%y-%m-%d")  # '15-04-18'
> >     d.strftime("Today it's the %dth day in the %mth month of %Y") # 'Today
> >     it's the 18th day in the 04th month of 2015' # Don't pay attention to
> >     ordinals, just simple example.
> > 
> > Now, an example of with my application. Suppose my app search cars:
> > 
> >     python search_cars.py -F "Brand %B, model %m, year %Y"  # Brand Ford,
> >     model Focus, year 1996
> >     python search_cars.py -F "%B - %m (%y)"  # Ford - Focus (96)
> > 
> > I'd provide my user with a table like:
> > 
> > %B = Brand
> > %m = Model
> > %Y = Year format YYYY
> > %y = Year format YY
> > %s = Seller name
> > ... etc...
> > 
> > Thanks a lot for your help!
> 
> Make a dict to map the format to a function that extracts the value you are 
> interested in from a record you found with your search. Then replace the 
> format in the template with the value returned from that function.
> 
> >>> import re
> >>> record = dict(brand="Ford", model="Focus", year=1996)
> >>> format = {"B": lambda r: r["brand"],
> ... "m": lambda r: r["model"],
> ... "Y": lambda r: str(r["year"]),
> ... "y": lambda r: "{:02}".format(r["year"] % 100),
> ... }
> >>> template = "Brand %B, model %m, year %Y"
> >>> re.compile("%(.)").sub(lambda m: format[m.group(1)](record), template)
> 'Brand Ford, model Focus, year 1996'
> >>> template = "%B - %m (%y)"
> >>> re.compile("%(.)").sub(lambda m: format[m.group(1)](record), template)
> 'Ford - Focus (96)'
> 
> To allow literal % signs add
> 
> format = {
>     ...
>     "%": lambda r: "%"
> }
> 
> to the lookup dict.
> 
> For alternative approaches have a look at string.Template, str.format() etc.

Amazing! Thank you very much Peter!


From steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info  Sat Apr 18 23:35:38 2015
From: steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: Sun, 19 Apr 2015 13:35:38 +1000
Subject: EuroPython 2015: Django Girls Workshop
References: <mailman.375.1429291538.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <b99ec2b1-2370-4923-9311-80365fb6bcb1@googlegroups.com>
 <87618uzec1.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <mailman.379.1429303772.12925.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <5533228b$0$13012$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

On Sat, 18 Apr 2015 06:44 am, Larry Martell wrote:

> On Fri, Apr 17, 2015 at 4:31 PM, Marko Rauhamaa <marko at pacujo.net> wrote:
>> beliavsky at aol.com:
>>
>>> If your target audience is women, I think you should have termed it
>>> the Django Womens Workshop rather than the Django Girls Workshop.
>>> Referring to adults as children can be seen as condescending.
>>
>> You got it wrong. The name is not offensive.
> 
> Most adult woman I know take offense at being called a girl.


Surely it depends on the context, and also the size of the chip on the
person's shoulder.

Consider a white male speaking to an adult black American male and referring
to him as "boy", especially if the white person is younger than the black
person. That would be demeaning and offensive due to the history of slavery
and apartheid in the US and the continuing status of blacks (especially
black males) as second-class citizens in the US.

Likewise an Englishman to an adult Indian, although it would probably come
across as more laughable than offensive. The British Empire is long gone,
and India is an independent nuclear-armed regional power, don't you know?

On the other hand, I don't know about where you are, but here in Australia
we say "I'm going on a night out with the boys", or if we are women, we
say "a night out with the girls". We might say things like "Oh yes, Susan
is one of us girls" which is quite different from "one of us women". (One
of us *women* is just a comment on Susan's sex, but *girls* is a comment on
her membership of a circle of friends.)

Sometimes we say "lads and lasses" when we want to be less formal
than "ladies and gentlemen".

And of course anyone who has watched Oprah will have heard "You go girl!" as
a positive term of support.

It is very common and acceptable to use "girls" or "boys" to refer to adults
when it is used in an inclusive sense. In other words, when the speaker
includes themselves, or at least there is the possibility of being
included. "I wish I could be one of the boys, but I'm just to shy to join
in."

In *this specific instance*, all you guys complaining about Django Girls
have completely missed the important fact that the name of the group
is "Django Girls". Django Girls was started by two women, Ola Sitarska and
Ola Sendecka, and their Github page says:

"Django Girls is a programming workshop for women."

So it is not a Django workshop for female children. It is not a workshop
belonging to girls who happen to use Django. It might not even be a
workshop teaching how to use Django! (Although it probably will be.) It is
a Django Girls workshop, just like we might say "Microsoft technology"
or "Washington politics".





-- 
Steven



From steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info  Sat Apr 18 23:46:43 2015
From: steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: Sun, 19 Apr 2015 13:46:43 +1000
Subject: Huh?  No way to markup announcements here?
References: <396c4a72-463d-4bc8-8832-7dae00c5fd8f@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <55332524$0$13013$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

On Sat, 18 Apr 2015 08:24 pm, edreamleo at gmail.com wrote:

> Many google groups support markdown or other markup.
> 
> I see no mention of markup here:
> https://www.python.org/community/clpya-guidelines.txt/
> 
> Is there any way to format announcements?  If so, how.  If not, why not?

If your announcement is so boring that you think you have to Jazz It Up with
animated gifs, multiple typefaces and so forth, perhaps you should rethink
whether or not you should bother announcing it.

Of course you can use *ReST* or *Markdown* here. It's just plain text.
Clients which support it will render the text appropriately, and clients
which don't will display it as plain text.



-- 
Steven



From rustompmody at gmail.com  Sat Apr 18 23:53:52 2015
From: rustompmody at gmail.com (Rustom Mody)
Date: Sat, 18 Apr 2015 20:53:52 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: EuroPython 2015: Django Girls Workshop
In-Reply-To: <5533228b$0$13012$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
References: <mailman.375.1429291538.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <b99ec2b1-2370-4923-9311-80365fb6bcb1@googlegroups.com>
 <87618uzec1.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <mailman.379.1429303772.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <5533228b$0$13012$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <27236476-fc6b-4071-bebf-927f007893b3@googlegroups.com>

On Sunday, April 19, 2015 at 9:05:54 AM UTC+5:30, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> On Sat, 18 Apr 2015 06:44 am, Larry Martell wrote:
> 
> > On Fri, Apr 17, 2015 at 4:31 PM, Marko Rauhamaa  wrote:
> >> beliavsky:
> >>
> >>> If your target audience is women, I think you should have termed it
> >>> the Django Womens Workshop rather than the Django Girls Workshop.
> >>> Referring to adults as children can be seen as condescending.
> >>
> >> You got it wrong. The name is not offensive.
> > 
> > Most adult woman I know take offense at being called a girl.
> 
> 
> Surely it depends on the context, and also the size of the chip on the
> person's shoulder.
> 
> Consider a white male speaking to an adult black American male and referring
> to him as "boy", especially if the white person is younger than the black
> person. That would be demeaning and offensive due to the history of slavery
> and apartheid in the US and the continuing status of blacks (especially
> black males) as second-class citizens in the US.
> 
> Likewise an Englishman to an adult Indian, although it would probably come
> across as more laughable than offensive. The British Empire is long gone,
> and India is an independent nuclear-armed regional power, don't you know?
> 
> On the other hand, I don't know about where you are, but here in Australia
> we say "I'm going on a night out with the boys", or if we are women, we
> say "a night out with the girls". We might say things like "Oh yes, Susan
> is one of us girls" which is quite different from "one of us women". (One
> of us *women* is just a comment on Susan's sex, but *girls* is a comment on
> her membership of a circle of friends.)
> 
> Sometimes we say "lads and lasses" when we want to be less formal
> than "ladies and gentlemen".
> 
> And of course anyone who has watched Oprah will have heard "You go girl!" as
> a positive term of support.
> 
> It is very common and acceptable to use "girls" or "boys" to refer to adults
> when it is used in an inclusive sense. In other words, when the speaker
> includes themselves, or at least there is the possibility of being
> included. "I wish I could be one of the boys, but I'm just to shy to join
> in."
> 
> In *this specific instance*, all you guys complaining about Django Girls
> have completely missed the important fact that the name of the group
> is "Django Girls". Django Girls was started by two women, Ola Sitarska and
> Ola Sendecka, and their Github page says:
> 
> "Django Girls is a programming workshop for women."
> 
> So it is not a Django workshop for female children. It is not a workshop
> belonging to girls who happen to use Django. It might not even be a
> workshop teaching how to use Django! (Although it probably will be.) It is
> a Django Girls workshop, just like we might say "Microsoft technology"
> or "Washington politics".
> 

I remember being taught in school:
"lady" is respectful
"woman" is disrespectful

When I was recently in Canada I learnt its exactly the other way round there --
[And probably more so in US where the chips on shoulder are heftier]
I was told by a lady -- uh... woman -- not to say 'ladies' but 'women'


From rosuav at gmail.com  Sun Apr 19 03:59:43 2015
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Sun, 19 Apr 2015 17:59:43 +1000
Subject: sorting list by multiple criteria and grouping alphabetically in
 python
In-Reply-To: <CALZ7wOdXUppPThq+3R7pJthu7br4OqjfCMrEpkteYRBouR0_fA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CALZ7wOdXUppPThq+3R7pJthu7br4OqjfCMrEpkteYRBouR0_fA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmojYSg3F9nxBu8OC9yW0PujUGPf6yVGsyb850gE-D6Fyg@mail.gmail.com>

On Sat, Apr 18, 2015 at 5:56 PM, Ahamed Farook <farookrceg at gmail.com> wrote:
> sorted(lsNearCities, key=operator.itemgetter(1,0))

This doesn't sort the list, it constructs a new one - and then
promptly discards it. What you want is the .sort() method on the list
object. As your code is incomplete, I can't say if there are any other
issues in it, but try switching over to the sort method and seeing if
that does what you want.

All the best!

ChrisA


From bc at freeuk.com  Sun Apr 19 07:38:43 2015
From: bc at freeuk.com (BartC)
Date: Sun, 19 Apr 2015 12:38:43 +0100
Subject: New to Python - block grouping (spaces)
In-Reply-To: <mailman.388.1429323788.12925.python-list@python.org>
References: <9fc57fc9-0399-4ff3-882a-d041f02827d8@googlegroups.com>
 <6580b5d5-92f5-4bfa-b1d0-889c69fe82bb@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.374.1429285961.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <mgrcb5$sn2$1@reader1.panix.com> <Y3bYw.302660$ms.24839@fx30.am4>
 <mailman.388.1429323788.12925.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <7tMYw.252071$SO1.39320@fx43.am4>

On 18/04/2015 03:22, Ben Finney wrote:
> BartC <bc at freeuk.com> writes:
>
>> (Actually *I* would quite like to know why languages don't have
>> switchable syntax anyway to allow for people's personal preferences.)
>
> Which people's personal preferences? Are these the same people who have
> such passionate disagreement about tabs versus spaces?
>
> If you only write programs that will only ever be read by you and no-one
> else, feel free to maintain a fork of Python (or any other language)
> that suits your personal preferences.
>
> Too much effort? Or maybe you sometimes want others, whose preferences
> may not exactly match yours, to collaborate on programs you write? Then
> I think you have your answer of why such personal perferences are not
> switchable in the languages we actually use.

Perhaps you don't understand what I'm getting at.

Suppose there were just two syntaxes: C-like and Python-like (we'll put 
aside for a minute the question of what format is used to store Python 
source code).

Why shouldn't A configure his editor to display a Python program in 
C-like syntax, and B configure their editor to use Python-like tabbed 
syntax?

A can write code in the preferred syntax, and B can view/modify exactly 
the same code in /their/ preferred syntax. What would be the problem? 
(The actual stored representation of the program would be in one of 
those two styles, or something else entirely; Lisp-like syntax for 
example. It doesn't matter because no-one would care.

(I think much of the problem that most languages are intimately 
associated with their specific syntax, so that people can't see past it 
to what the code is actually saying. a=b, a:=b, b=>a, (setf a b), 
whatever the syntax is, who cares? We just want to do an assignment!)

-- 
Bartc









From bc at freeuk.com  Sun Apr 19 07:44:56 2015
From: bc at freeuk.com (BartC)
Date: Sun, 19 Apr 2015 12:44:56 +0100
Subject: New to Python - block grouping (spaces)
In-Reply-To: <73a6cda5-2962-462a-8aa3-d43dbb077a0d@googlegroups.com>
References: <9fc57fc9-0399-4ff3-882a-d041f02827d8@googlegroups.com>
 <6580b5d5-92f5-4bfa-b1d0-889c69fe82bb@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.374.1429285961.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <mgrcb5$sn2$1@reader1.panix.com> <Y3bYw.302660$ms.24839@fx30.am4>
 <mgsbco$e1t$1@dont-email.me>
 <73a6cda5-2962-462a-8aa3-d43dbb077a0d@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <YyMYw.250907$_r1.122849@fx39.am4>

On 18/04/2015 03:22, Rustom Mody wrote:
> On Saturday, April 18, 2015 at 6:49:30 AM UTC+5:30, Dan Sommers wrote:
>> On Fri, 17 Apr 2015 18:05:52 +0100, BartC wrote:
>>
>>> (Actually *I* would quite like to know why languages don't have
>>> switchable syntax anyway to allow for people's personal preferences.)
>>
>> You want LISP, the programmable programming language.

I don't really want Lisp (not even with a shiny new syntax).

> You got it!!
> One of the deep paradoxes in 'getting' programming is that you cant do
> programming without some syntax; and yet syntax is irrelevant.

Yes, exactly!

When I sometimes want to code in Python, why can't I used my usual syntax?

The tabbing isn't so much of a big deal, but, for example, I normally 
use ":=" and  "=" for Python's "=" and "==" operators, and it can be a 
nuisance when switching between syntaxes. (At least Python picks up the 
use of "=" inside an expression, unlike C...)

-- 
Bartc



From ben+python at benfinney.id.au  Sun Apr 19 08:59:10 2015
From: ben+python at benfinney.id.au (Ben Finney)
Date: Sun, 19 Apr 2015 22:59:10 +1000
Subject: New to Python - block grouping (spaces)
References: <9fc57fc9-0399-4ff3-882a-d041f02827d8@googlegroups.com>
 <6580b5d5-92f5-4bfa-b1d0-889c69fe82bb@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.374.1429285961.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <mgrcb5$sn2$1@reader1.panix.com> <Y3bYw.302660$ms.24839@fx30.am4>
 <mailman.388.1429323788.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <7tMYw.252071$SO1.39320@fx43.am4>
Message-ID: <85r3rgp941.fsf@benfinney.id.au>

BartC <bc at freeuk.com> writes:

> Why shouldn't A configure his editor to display a Python program in
> C-like syntax, and B configure their editor to use Python-like tabbed
> syntax?

I don't recall anyone saying that *shouldn't* be done. Feel free to
make, and maintain and support and propagate and keep pace with changes
in everything Python interacts with, a full Python stack that supports
such flexibility.

> A can write code in the preferred syntax, and B can view/modify
> exactly the same code in /their/ preferred syntax. What would be the
> problem?

I can only invite you to embark on the project of a Python compiler
which accepts such a switchable syntax, maintain it consistently over
the lifetime of a project with significant numbers of people
collaborating using different switch settings for that syntax, and
working on the same code with different editor settings.

Once you've done that, report back to us about the problems encountered.

> (The actual stored representation of the program would be in one of
> those two styles, or something else entirely; Lisp-like syntax for
> example. It doesn't matter because no-one would care.

No-one except the people who have to maintain and debug and continue
developing a Python that supports multiple radically-different syntaxes.
I suspect the efforts of those people is being discounted in your vision.

-- 
 \       ?To have the choice between proprietary software packages, is |
  `\      being able to choose your master. Freedom means not having a |
_o__)                        master.? ?Richard M. Stallman, 2007-05-16 |
Ben Finney



From steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info  Sun Apr 19 09:02:52 2015
From: steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: Sun, 19 Apr 2015 23:02:52 +1000
Subject: Best search algorithm to find condition within a range
References: <2e3a3c01-20b3-4948-9b32-bd80ed46822b@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.89.1428413413.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <mg0pjk$8qs$2@dont-email.me>
 <fd544688-5e9c-418e-9ca9-11b9bcb83186@googlegroups.com>
 <55329d82$0$21225$e4fe514c@dreader37.news.xs4all.nl>
Message-ID: <5533a77d$0$12993$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

On Sun, 19 Apr 2015 04:08 am, Albert van der Horst wrote:

> Fire up a lowlevel interpreter like Forth. (e.g. gforth)

Yay! I'm not the only one who uses or likes Forth!

Have you tried Factor? I'm wondering if it is worth looking at, as a more
modern and less low-level version of Forth.


-- 
Steven



From davea at davea.name  Sun Apr 19 09:18:00 2015
From: davea at davea.name (Dave Angel)
Date: Sun, 19 Apr 2015 09:18:00 -0400
Subject: New to Python - block grouping (spaces)
In-Reply-To: <7tMYw.252071$SO1.39320@fx43.am4>
References: <9fc57fc9-0399-4ff3-882a-d041f02827d8@googlegroups.com>
 <6580b5d5-92f5-4bfa-b1d0-889c69fe82bb@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.374.1429285961.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <mgrcb5$sn2$1@reader1.panix.com> <Y3bYw.302660$ms.24839@fx30.am4>
 <mailman.388.1429323788.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <7tMYw.252071$SO1.39320@fx43.am4>
Message-ID: <5533AB08.3020107@davea.name>

On 04/19/2015 07:38 AM, BartC wrote:
....
> Perhaps you don't understand what I'm getting at.
>
> Suppose there were just two syntaxes: C-like and Python-like (we'll put
> aside for a minute the question of what format is used to store Python
> source code).
>
> Why shouldn't A configure his editor to display a Python program in
> C-like syntax, and B configure their editor to use Python-like tabbed
> syntax?
>
> A can write code in the preferred syntax, and B can view/modify exactly
> the same code in /their/ preferred syntax. What would be the problem?
> (The actual stored representation of the program would be in one of
> those two styles, or something else entirely; Lisp-like syntax for
> example. It doesn't matter because no-one would care.
>
> (I think much of the problem that most languages are intimately
> associated with their specific syntax, so that people can't see past it
> to what the code is actually saying. a=b, a:=b, b=>a, (setf a b),
> whatever the syntax is, who cares? We just want to do an assignment!)
>

If you make enough simplifying assumptions, of course it's easy and natural.

Assume that a text editor is the only way you'll be viewing the source 
code.  You and your coworkers are willing to each use a prescribed text 
editor, rather than your previous favorite one that doesn't happen to 
support the customization you're suggesting here.  You're not going to 
use a version control system, nor diff programs.  You're not going to 
post your code in messages on the internet.

You're not going to display error messages showing source code, from a 
running system.  You're not going to use the interactive debugger.

You're not going to copy code from one place to another without copying 
sufficient context to be able to reconstruct the funny syntax.

You're going to permit only one such variation, and it's just big enough 
that it's always obvious which version of the code is being examined (by 
programs or by humans) [1]

You're not going to use eval()  [good].  You're not going to examine 
source code that comes from 3rd party or the standard library.

The changes you want are all completely reversible, regardless of 
interspersed comments, and when reversed, preserve spacing and 
characters completely in the way that each user expects to see the code. 
  And they are reversible even if you only have a small fragment of the 
code.

I implemented something analogous to such a system 40 years ago.  But on 
that system, nearly all of the restrictions above applied.  There was no 
clipboard, no version control, no internet.  Programs had to fit in 64k. 
Each line stood completely on its own, so context was not a problem.  i 
wrote the text editor, much of the interactive debugger, the listing 
utility, the pretty printer, the cross reference program, etc.  So they 
were consistent.  Further, we had a captive audience -- if they didn't 
like it, they could buy the competitor's product, which had similar 
constraints.  Would I do things differently now?  You bet I would.  At 
least if I could upgrade the memory addressability to a few megs.


For the purposes you've described so far, I'd suggest just writing two 
translators, one a mirror image of the other.  Invoke them automatically 
on load and save in your personal editor  And learn to live with both 
syntaxes, because it will leak.  And if it's really not reversible, 
don't use them when you're editing somebody else's code.  And even if it 
is reversible, don't use them when you edit code you plan to post on the 
internet.

[1] So for example  a=b can not mean assignment in one version, and a 
comparison in the other.  Because then you'd need to either discover 
that it's a line by itself, or within an if expression, or ...  But you 
could arrange two disjoint sets of symbols readily enough.  In your 
version, require either := or ==, and make = just plain illegal.

PS.  I haven't examined the costs in tool development to support this. 
Just whether it's practical.  You can easily discount any one of these 
constraints, but taken as a whole, they very much limit what you can do.

-- 
DaveA


From steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info  Sun Apr 19 09:22:55 2015
From: steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: Sun, 19 Apr 2015 23:22:55 +1000
Subject: New to Python - block grouping (spaces)
References: <9fc57fc9-0399-4ff3-882a-d041f02827d8@googlegroups.com>
 <6580b5d5-92f5-4bfa-b1d0-889c69fe82bb@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.374.1429285961.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <mgrcb5$sn2$1@reader1.panix.com> <Y3bYw.302660$ms.24839@fx30.am4>
 <mailman.388.1429323788.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <7tMYw.252071$SO1.39320@fx43.am4>
Message-ID: <5533ac30$0$13003$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

On Sun, 19 Apr 2015 09:38 pm, BartC wrote:

> Suppose there were just two syntaxes: C-like and Python-like (we'll put
> aside for a minute the question of what format is used to store Python
> source code).
> 
> Why shouldn't A configure his editor to display a Python program in
> C-like syntax, and B configure their editor to use Python-like tabbed
> syntax?
> 
> A can write code in the preferred syntax, and B can view/modify exactly
> the same code in their preferred syntax. What would be the problem?
> (The actual stored representation of the program would be in one of
> those two styles, or something else entirely; Lisp-like syntax for
> example. It doesn't matter because no-one would care.

The only people who would not care are those alone in a bubble who never
share or discuss code with anyone else. Everyone else will care a great
deal.

How could A and B talk about the code to each other? A says "line 56 is
buggy, you need to replace foo{^bar} with foo at bar" and B replies "what are
you talking about? line 56 says foo.bar and foo at bar is a syntax error".




-- 
Steven



From steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info  Sun Apr 19 09:23:59 2015
From: steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: Sun, 19 Apr 2015 23:23:59 +1000
Subject: New to Python - block grouping (spaces)
References: <9fc57fc9-0399-4ff3-882a-d041f02827d8@googlegroups.com>
 <6580b5d5-92f5-4bfa-b1d0-889c69fe82bb@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.374.1429285961.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <mgrcb5$sn2$1@reader1.panix.com> <Y3bYw.302660$ms.24839@fx30.am4>
 <mgsbco$e1t$1@dont-email.me>
 <73a6cda5-2962-462a-8aa3-d43dbb077a0d@googlegroups.com>
 <YyMYw.250907$_r1.122849@fx39.am4>
Message-ID: <5533ac70$0$13003$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

On Sun, 19 Apr 2015 09:44 pm, BartC wrote:

> When I sometimes want to code in Python, why can't I used my usual syntax?

When I go to China, why doesn't everyone speak English for my convenience?

I'll tell you what. When you convince the makers of C compilers to support
Python syntax as an alternative, then I'll help with making Python
compilers support C syntax.


-- 
Steven



From breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk  Sun Apr 19 09:30:47 2015
From: breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk (Mark Lawrence)
Date: Sun, 19 Apr 2015 14:30:47 +0100
Subject: New to Python - block grouping (spaces)
In-Reply-To: <85r3rgp941.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
References: <9fc57fc9-0399-4ff3-882a-d041f02827d8@googlegroups.com>
 <6580b5d5-92f5-4bfa-b1d0-889c69fe82bb@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.374.1429285961.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <mgrcb5$sn2$1@reader1.panix.com> <Y3bYw.302660$ms.24839@fx30.am4>
 <mailman.388.1429323788.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <7tMYw.252071$SO1.39320@fx43.am4> <85r3rgp941.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
Message-ID: <mh0ama$42r$1@ger.gmane.org>

On 19/04/2015 13:59, Ben Finney wrote:
> BartC <bc at freeuk.com> writes:
>
>> Why shouldn't A configure his editor to display a Python program in
>> C-like syntax, and B configure their editor to use Python-like tabbed
>> syntax?
>
> I don't recall anyone saying that *shouldn't* be done. Feel free to
> make, and maintain and support and propagate and keep pace with changes
> in everything Python interacts with, a full Python stack that supports
> such flexibility.
>

Presumably we just add BartCPython to the list containing those like 
Python 2.8 and RickedPython.

-- 
My fellow Pythonistas, ask not what our language can do for you, ask
what you can do for our language.

Mark Lawrence



From rustompmody at gmail.com  Sun Apr 19 10:01:12 2015
From: rustompmody at gmail.com (Rustom Mody)
Date: Sun, 19 Apr 2015 07:01:12 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: New to Python - block grouping (spaces)
In-Reply-To: <YyMYw.250907$_r1.122849@fx39.am4>
References: <9fc57fc9-0399-4ff3-882a-d041f02827d8@googlegroups.com>
 <6580b5d5-92f5-4bfa-b1d0-889c69fe82bb@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.374.1429285961.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <mgrcb5$sn2$1@reader1.panix.com> <Y3bYw.302660$ms.24839@fx30.am4>
 <mgsbco$e1t$1@dont-email.me>
 <73a6cda5-2962-462a-8aa3-d43dbb077a0d@googlegroups.com>
 <YyMYw.250907$_r1.122849@fx39.am4>
Message-ID: <1db3fdef-391f-4db4-a5c8-bc1aef59304b@googlegroups.com>

On Sunday, April 19, 2015 at 5:15:07 PM UTC+5:30, BartC wrote:
> On 18/04/2015 03:22, Rustom Mody wrote:
> > On Saturday, April 18, 2015 at 6:49:30 AM UTC+5:30, Dan Sommers wrote:
> >> On Fri, 17 Apr 2015 18:05:52 +0100, BartC wrote:
> >>
> >>> (Actually *I* would quite like to know why languages don't have
> >>> switchable syntax anyway to allow for people's personal preferences.)
> >>
> >> You want LISP, the programmable programming language.
> 
> I don't really want Lisp (not even with a shiny new syntax).

You do... See below

> 
> > You got it!!
> > One of the deep paradoxes in 'getting' programming is that you cant do
> > programming without some syntax; and yet syntax is irrelevant.
> 
> Yes, exactly!
> 
> When I sometimes want to code in Python, why can't I used my usual syntax?
> 
> The tabbing isn't so much of a big deal, but, for example, I normally 
> use ":=" and  "=" for Python's "=" and "==" operators, and it can be a 
> nuisance when switching between syntaxes. (At least Python picks up the 
> use of "=" inside an expression, unlike C...)

See McCarthy's interview
http://www.infoq.com/interviews/Steele-Interviews-John-McCarthy
This is after a life of Lisp and AI -- he died a couple of years after the interview.
And in there he repeatedly asks for 'abstract syntax' languages -- as I see it
the same as you are asking

Of course one needs to distinguish Lisp-technology from Lisp-philosophy.
I believe you and McCarthy are asking for Lisp philosophy as I am also:
http://blog.languager.org/2012/10/html-is-why-mess-in-programming-syntax.html

JFTR: The specific connection with html is somewhat facetious
That programmers are stuck in text files 50 years after everyone else has moved 
on is more serious


From pauld11718 at gmail.com  Sun Apr 19 10:48:28 2015
From: pauld11718 at gmail.com (pauld11718)
Date: Sun, 19 Apr 2015 07:48:28 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Python and fortran Interface suggestion
Message-ID: <eb8e5e64-b46b-4315-a088-563a578a9bc6@googlegroups.com>

I am developing a code under Ubuntu(64bit) with python using various libraries. Once done, I need to generate an executable which shall be interfaced with fortran program on account of further collaboration. The python executable shall be used with windows(32bit).

So, I guess everytime my python executable is called by the fortran code on each time step, all those
from **** import *'s
will be executed and are time consuming (which is not at all required). Moreover, creating executable for windows, using linux is that possible by any means?

What is a better methodology for addresing such interfacing?


From marko at pacujo.net  Sun Apr 19 10:56:49 2015
From: marko at pacujo.net (Marko Rauhamaa)
Date: Sun, 19 Apr 2015 17:56:49 +0300
Subject: Best search algorithm to find condition within a range
References: <2e3a3c01-20b3-4948-9b32-bd80ed46822b@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.89.1428413413.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <mg0pjk$8qs$2@dont-email.me>
 <fd544688-5e9c-418e-9ca9-11b9bcb83186@googlegroups.com>
 <55329d82$0$21225$e4fe514c@dreader37.news.xs4all.nl>
 <5533a77d$0$12993$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <87egngw4i6.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>

Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info>:

> Yay! I'm not the only one who uses or likes Forth!

Out of interest, is Forth different from PostScript? I have done some
small-time programming in PostScript but nothing in Forth.


Marko


From rosuav at gmail.com  Sun Apr 19 11:15:08 2015
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Mon, 20 Apr 2015 01:15:08 +1000
Subject: New to Python - block grouping (spaces)
In-Reply-To: <7tMYw.252071$SO1.39320@fx43.am4>
References: <9fc57fc9-0399-4ff3-882a-d041f02827d8@googlegroups.com>
 <6580b5d5-92f5-4bfa-b1d0-889c69fe82bb@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.374.1429285961.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <mgrcb5$sn2$1@reader1.panix.com> <Y3bYw.302660$ms.24839@fx30.am4>
 <mailman.388.1429323788.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <7tMYw.252071$SO1.39320@fx43.am4>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmq4Q-dFjONuLdddOQMjPYmA9OtdSOvCL_Sdn-vbZ7XtRg@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, Apr 19, 2015 at 9:38 PM, BartC <bc at freeuk.com> wrote:
> Suppose there were just two syntaxes: C-like and Python-like (we'll put
> aside for a minute the question of what format is used to store Python
> source code).
>
> Why shouldn't A configure his editor to display a Python program in C-like
> syntax, and B configure their editor to use Python-like tabbed syntax?

You still haven't addressed the question of the extent of "C-like
syntax" for Python. It's not simply a matter of block delimiters. With
git (and I believe similarly with hg, but I'm not sure about smaller
and/or proprietary source control systems), you can define a pair of
filters which transform a file between the actual source control
system and your checked-out version, so (for instance) you could have
source control work with four-space indents where you work with tab
indents. That one's dead easy. With a little more work, you could
probably rig something up to use keywords or symbols to delimit blocks
of code; braces would be harder, because Python uses them for dicts
and sets, so you'd need some sort of context-aware parsing.

But the biggest problem is that you wouldn't actually be changing
anything else. You'd end up with a bizarre hybrid that uses a tiny bit
of C-like syntax, but entirely Python-like syntax everywhere else. For
example, Python doesn't allow this:

if condition: for i in range(3): do_stuff()

So you'd never truly be able to take advantage of the braces. In fact,
all you'd _really_ have would be a way to key in some braces, commit
to source control, check out again, and have your indentation
auto-fixed for you... and if that's all you want, I think there are
editors which make the reindenting of code a ton easier than that!

As Dave suggests, make yourself a parser which turns *any* legal[1]
Python code into your preferred "C-like" syntax, and another which
performs a perfect reverse transformation. I suspect you'll find the
task fundamentally hard.

ChrisA

[1] Coping with broken Python code is going to be important later on,
but ignore it for now. It's a ton harder to ensure that you can do a
reversible syntactic change on something with syntax errors!


From gheskett at wdtv.com  Sun Apr 19 11:17:44 2015
From: gheskett at wdtv.com (Gene Heskett)
Date: Sun, 19 Apr 2015 11:17:44 -0400
Subject: Best search algorithm to find condition within a range
In-Reply-To: <87egngw4i6.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
References: <2e3a3c01-20b3-4948-9b32-bd80ed46822b@googlegroups.com>
 <5533a77d$0$12993$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <87egngw4i6.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
Message-ID: <201504191117.44576.gheskett@wdtv.com>

On Sunday 19 April 2015 10:56:49 Marko Rauhamaa wrote:
> Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info>:
> > Yay! I'm not the only one who uses or likes Forth!
>
> Out of interest, is Forth different from PostScript? I have done some
> small-time programming in PostScript but nothing in Forth.
>
>
> Marko

No relationship detectable Marko.

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page <http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/gene>


From rosuav at gmail.com  Sun Apr 19 11:23:05 2015
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Mon, 20 Apr 2015 01:23:05 +1000
Subject: Python and fortran Interface suggestion
In-Reply-To: <eb8e5e64-b46b-4315-a088-563a578a9bc6@googlegroups.com>
References: <eb8e5e64-b46b-4315-a088-563a578a9bc6@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmrd-0YX7DYi2_6e4yysByH+t2dtSs8DwSd+Ks59Cm+ygQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Apr 20, 2015 at 12:48 AM, pauld11718 <pauld11718 at gmail.com> wrote:
> I am developing a code under Ubuntu(64bit) with python using various libraries. Once done, I need to generate an executable which shall be interfaced with fortran program on account of further collaboration. The python executable shall be used with windows(32bit).
>
> So, I guess everytime my python executable is called by the fortran code on each time step, all those
> from **** import *'s
> will be executed and are time consuming (which is not at all required). Moreover, creating executable for windows, using linux is that possible by any means?
>
> What is a better methodology for addresing such interfacing?

Hmm. Let's divide that into several parts.

1) You need to have a Python program that interfaces with Fortran.

Does it need to call functions from a Fortran library, or is it simply
invoked by the Fortran program and that's it? If the latter, it's not
hard. But if you're concerned about startup time, you may want to
consider having your Python program keep running indefinitely, and
have some alternative means of communicating between them. For
instance, Python might create a socket or pipe, which the Fortran
program opens and writes to, and then reads a response. (If you can't
edit the Fortran code at all, it's pretty easy to write a slim stub
executable that does the socket/pipe handling.) Or alternatively,
install Python onto a RAM disk, to improve startup time that way.

2) You need to run the whole kit and caboodle on Windows. The best way
to do this is simply to write clean Python code, and then install a
Windows Python, and everything will work just fine. However, Windows
does tend to have far worse disk cache management than Linux has,
which will exacerbate your startup delays.

3) Above all, you need to know exactly how long things are taking.
Before you start trying to speed things up, first figure out where
it's actually slow. You never know, it might already be fast enough!

Check out some details, see how things go. On the face of it, I'd
guess that what you want to do will be quite doable.

ChrisA


From pauld11718 at gmail.com  Sun Apr 19 11:56:00 2015
From: pauld11718 at gmail.com (pauld11718)
Date: Sun, 19 Apr 2015 08:56:00 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Python and fortran Interface suggestion
In-Reply-To: <mailman.407.1429456993.12925.python-list@python.org>
References: <eb8e5e64-b46b-4315-a088-563a578a9bc6@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.407.1429456993.12925.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <66af8e33-b0c0-400f-a89e-bc6759a93c41@googlegroups.com>

I shall provide with further details....

Its about Mathematical modelling of a system. Fortran does one part and python does the other part (which I am suppose to provide).
For a time interval tn --> t_n+1, fortran code generates some values, for which my python code accepts it as an input. It integrates some data for the same time step tn --> tn+1 and fortran computes based on this for the next time step t_n+1 --> t_n+2......and this is how loop continues.

Its the fortran code calling my Python executable at all the time interval.

So,
1. Is it about rebuilding every thing using cx_freeze kind of stuff in windows? 

2. As interfacing between fortran/python is via .dat file, so on every time-step python executable is called it shall open()/close() .dat file. This along with all those 
from **** import *'s
are unnecessary.

3. I dont have access to fortran code. I shall provide the python executable only, which will take input from .dat file and write to another .dat file. So, what is your suggestion regarding socket/pipe and python installation on RAM? I have no idea with those.

Isn't there a better way to handle such issues?



From rustompmody at gmail.com  Sun Apr 19 12:03:23 2015
From: rustompmody at gmail.com (Rustom Mody)
Date: Sun, 19 Apr 2015 09:03:23 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: New to Python - block grouping (spaces)
In-Reply-To: <mailman.405.1429456511.12925.python-list@python.org>
References: <9fc57fc9-0399-4ff3-882a-d041f02827d8@googlegroups.com>
 <6580b5d5-92f5-4bfa-b1d0-889c69fe82bb@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.374.1429285961.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <mgrcb5$sn2$1@reader1.panix.com> <Y3bYw.302660$ms.24839@fx30.am4>
 <mailman.388.1429323788.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <7tMYw.252071$SO1.39320@fx43.am4>
 <mailman.405.1429456511.12925.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <7413a8e7-b580-4b2f-84bc-dd13da2d36ba@googlegroups.com>

On Sunday, April 19, 2015 at 8:45:27 PM UTC+5:30, Chris Angelico wrote:

<Description of the task of  first-classing syntax snipped>

> I suspect you'll find the task fundamentally hard.

How hard?
Lets see.
Two guys wanted to write an OS.
Seeing current languages not upto their standard they first made themselves a
suitable language.
Would you call their project hard ridiculous and misguided?

Well evidently some people did but fortunately their managers did not interfere.

OTOH some others liked the ideas/outlook enough that they jumped on the bandwagon and in short order there were
- a heavy duty compilation system -- parser generators to librarians etc
- editor(s)
- source code systems
- text tools (grep sed) 
- shell

In short a 'Programmer's Work Bench'
http://www.ics.uci.edu/~andre/ics228s2006/dolottamashey.pdf

Now if Thomson and Ritchie (yeah thems the guys) could do it in 1970,
why cant we revamp this 45-year old archaic program=textfile system today?


From torriem at gmail.com  Sun Apr 19 13:15:40 2015
From: torriem at gmail.com (Michael Torrie)
Date: Sun, 19 Apr 2015 11:15:40 -0600
Subject: New to Python - block grouping (spaces)
In-Reply-To: <87k2x9yl7w.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
References: <9fc57fc9-0399-4ff3-882a-d041f02827d8@googlegroups.com>
 <6580b5d5-92f5-4bfa-b1d0-889c69fe82bb@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.374.1429285961.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <mgrcb5$sn2$1@reader1.panix.com> <Y3bYw.302660$ms.24839@fx30.am4>
 <mailman.388.1429323788.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <87k2x9yl7w.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
Message-ID: <5533E2BC.7020404@gmail.com>

On 04/18/2015 01:00 AM, Marko Rauhamaa wrote:
> Ben Finney <ben+python at benfinney.id.au>:
> 
>> If you only write programs that will only ever be read by you and
>> no-one else, feel free to maintain a fork of Python (or any other
>> language) that suits your personal preferences.
> 
> It would be possible to define a canonical AST storage format. Then,
> your editor could "incarnate" the AST in the syntax of your choosing.

As was just mentioned in another part of the thread, what you're
describing is essentially LISP.



From mwilson at the-wire.com  Sun Apr 19 13:38:51 2015
From: mwilson at the-wire.com (Mel Wilson)
Date: Sun, 19 Apr 2015 17:38:51 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: New to Python - block grouping (spaces)
References: <9fc57fc9-0399-4ff3-882a-d041f02827d8@googlegroups.com>
 <6580b5d5-92f5-4bfa-b1d0-889c69fe82bb@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.374.1429285961.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <mgrcb5$sn2$1@reader1.panix.com> <Y3bYw.302660$ms.24839@fx30.am4>
 <mailman.388.1429323788.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <7tMYw.252071$SO1.39320@fx43.am4>
 <mailman.405.1429456511.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <7413a8e7-b580-4b2f-84bc-dd13da2d36ba@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <mh0p79$ebb$1@dont-email.me>

On Sun, 19 Apr 2015 09:03:23 -0700, Rustom Mody wrote:

> Now if Thomson and Ritchie (yeah thems the guys) could do it in 1970,
> why cant we revamp this 45-year old archaic program=textfile system
> today?

Dunno.  Why not?  There's half of you right there.



From steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info  Sun Apr 19 13:46:31 2015
From: steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: Mon, 20 Apr 2015 03:46:31 +1000
Subject: New to Python - block grouping (spaces)
References: <9fc57fc9-0399-4ff3-882a-d041f02827d8@googlegroups.com>
 <6580b5d5-92f5-4bfa-b1d0-889c69fe82bb@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.374.1429285961.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <mgrcb5$sn2$1@reader1.panix.com> <Y3bYw.302660$ms.24839@fx30.am4>
 <mailman.388.1429323788.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <7tMYw.252071$SO1.39320@fx43.am4>
Message-ID: <5533e9f8$0$12986$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

On Sun, 19 Apr 2015 09:38 pm, BartC wrote:

> (I think much of the problem that most languages are intimately
> associated with their specific syntax, so that people can't see past it
> to what the code is actually saying. a=b, a:=b, b=>a, (setf a b),
> whatever the syntax is, who cares? We just want to do an assignment!)

You are making the mistake of thinking that we write code for the benefit of
the compiler or interpreter. We don't. If we did that, we'd all be using
machine code, programming in hex.

Source code exists to be read by human beings. If you want to communicate
with other human beings, you have to agree on a common language.

You might be interested in the Coffeescript model. You write Coffeescript
code, which is then translated (compiled? transpiled?) into pure
Javascript, which can then be run in the Javascript engine of your choice.
That's a language design model which is proven to work, unlike the idea of
having configurable syntax.

You'll notice that Coffeescript isn't a mere preprocessor or source code
transformation. The code is compiled into a different language, which may
not be reversible, and different compilers may generate different
(better/worse) code.

The Coffeescript:

    eat food for food in ['toast', 'cheese', 'wine']


compiles to Javascript:

    var food, j, len, ref;

    ref = ['toast', 'cheese', 'wine'];
    for (j = 0, len = ref.length; j < len; j++) {
      food = ref[j];
      eat(food);
    }




-- 
Steven



From steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info  Sun Apr 19 13:53:08 2015
From: steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: Mon, 20 Apr 2015 03:53:08 +1000
Subject: New to Python - block grouping (spaces)
References: <9fc57fc9-0399-4ff3-882a-d041f02827d8@googlegroups.com>
 <6580b5d5-92f5-4bfa-b1d0-889c69fe82bb@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.374.1429285961.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <mgrcb5$sn2$1@reader1.panix.com> <Y3bYw.302660$ms.24839@fx30.am4>
 <mailman.388.1429323788.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <7tMYw.252071$SO1.39320@fx43.am4>
 <mailman.405.1429456511.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <7413a8e7-b580-4b2f-84bc-dd13da2d36ba@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <5533eb85$0$12992$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

On Mon, 20 Apr 2015 02:03 am, Rustom Mody wrote:

> On Sunday, April 19, 2015 at 8:45:27 PM UTC+5:30, Chris Angelico wrote:
> 
> <Description of the task of  first-classing syntax snipped>
> 
>> I suspect you'll find the task fundamentally hard.
> 
> How hard?
> Lets see.
> Two guys wanted to write an OS.
> Seeing current languages not upto their standard they first made
> themselves a suitable language.
> Would you call their project hard ridiculous and misguided?

No, I would call it easy and sensible. University undergraduates write their
own compilers and operating systems. Admittedly only toy ones, but Thomson
and Ritchie weren't undergraduates.

What does this have to do with creating a language with configurable syntax?
Just because C/Unix was a good idea doesn't mean every idea related to
programming language design is also a good idea.


> Well evidently some people did but fortunately their managers did not
> interfere.

You are assuming they had managers. University life isn't exactly the same
as corporate culture.


> OTOH some others liked the ideas/outlook enough that they jumped on the
> bandwagon and in short order there were - a heavy duty compilation system
> -- parser generators to librarians etc - editor(s)
> - source code systems
> - text tools (grep sed)
> - shell
> 
> In short a 'Programmer's Work Bench'
> http://www.ics.uci.edu/~andre/ics228s2006/dolottamashey.pdf
> 
> Now if Thomson and Ritchie (yeah thems the guys) could do it in 1970,
> why cant we revamp this 45-year old archaic program=textfile system today?

Programmers use source code as text for the same reason that wheels are
still round. Wheels have been round for thousands of years! Why can't we
try something modern, like triangular wheels? Or something fractal in
three-dimensions... maybe cauliflower shaped?



-- 
Steven



From dan at tombstonezero.net  Sun Apr 19 14:07:36 2015
From: dan at tombstonezero.net (Dan Sommers)
Date: Sun, 19 Apr 2015 18:07:36 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: New to Python - block grouping (spaces)
References: <9fc57fc9-0399-4ff3-882a-d041f02827d8@googlegroups.com>
 <6580b5d5-92f5-4bfa-b1d0-889c69fe82bb@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.374.1429285961.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <mgrcb5$sn2$1@reader1.panix.com> <Y3bYw.302660$ms.24839@fx30.am4>
 <mailman.388.1429323788.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <7tMYw.252071$SO1.39320@fx43.am4>
 <mailman.405.1429456511.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <7413a8e7-b580-4b2f-84bc-dd13da2d36ba@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <mh0qt8$9kl$1@dont-email.me>

On Sun, 19 Apr 2015 09:03:23 -0700, Rustom Mody wrote:

> Now if Thomson and Ritchie (yeah thems the guys) could do it in 1970,
> why cant we revamp this 45-year old archaic program=textfile system
> today?

Revamp?  What's to revamp?

C, C++, C#, Java, FORTRAN, Python, Perl, Ruby, POSIX shells, Javascript,
and a whole spectrum of arguably mainstream languages *still* work that
way.  Plenty of other languages that compile to Python or Java bytecode
work that way, even if the source code isn't Python or Java.  New
languages, like go, Rust, and Julia work that way.  What's to revamp?
My IDE is UNIX.

Java programmers who don't dare leave their beloved pointy clicky IDE
for a command line store their source files as plain text (and they
cringe when I sed sed against those source files, but I digress).  The
one project I ever did on a mainframe had a common text editor that
supported FORTRAN, JCL, and COBOL, and stored source code in files of
containing fixed length records of EBCDIC characters, IIRC.  The notion
of a "line of code," even in white-space-neutral languages, is deeply
rooted in punch cards, and isn't going away anytime soon.

IMO, until git's successor tracks content-_not_-delimited-by-linefeeds,
languages will continue to work that way.

Smalltalk, Forth, and LISP don't follow the program=textfile system
(although LISP can, and does sometimes); and UCSD Pascal didn't (at
least I think it didn't; the only tools I remember from those days all
ran inside UCSD Pascal and didn't expose much of the internals).

Slash rant.  Sorry.

Now that we've settled on UTF-8 as a successor to ASCII, the
program=textfile system has a long future in front of it.

Dan


From mwilson at the-wire.com  Sun Apr 19 14:25:59 2015
From: mwilson at the-wire.com (Mel Wilson)
Date: Sun, 19 Apr 2015 18:25:59 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: New to Python - block grouping (spaces)
References: <9fc57fc9-0399-4ff3-882a-d041f02827d8@googlegroups.com>
 <6580b5d5-92f5-4bfa-b1d0-889c69fe82bb@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.374.1429285961.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <mgrcb5$sn2$1@reader1.panix.com> <Y3bYw.302660$ms.24839@fx30.am4>
 <mailman.388.1429323788.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <7tMYw.252071$SO1.39320@fx43.am4>
 <mailman.405.1429456511.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <7413a8e7-b580-4b2f-84bc-dd13da2d36ba@googlegroups.com>
 <5533eb85$0$12992$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <mh0rvm$ou2$1@dont-email.me>

On Mon, 20 Apr 2015 03:53:08 +1000, Steven D'Aprano wrote:

> On Mon, 20 Apr 2015 02:03 am, Rustom Mody wrote:

>> Well evidently some people did but fortunately their managers did not
>> interfere.
> 
> You are assuming they had managers. University life isn't exactly the
> same as corporate culture.

IIRC Thompson, Ritchie, et al. were working at Bell Labs.  Legend has it 
that management would not buy them a Multics, so they were forced to 
write their own using the hardware they had.

	Mel.


From dihedral88888 at gmail.com  Sun Apr 19 14:46:15 2015
From: dihedral88888 at gmail.com (CHIN Dihedral)
Date: Sun, 19 Apr 2015 11:46:15 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: New to Python - block grouping (spaces)
In-Reply-To: <mailman.349.1429196778.12925.python-list@python.org>
References: <9fc57fc9-0399-4ff3-882a-d041f02827d8@googlegroups.com>
 <6580b5d5-92f5-4bfa-b1d0-889c69fe82bb@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.349.1429196778.12925.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <db150184-386e-4a82-91a5-8984233a82d7@googlegroups.com>

On Thursday, April 16, 2015 at 11:06:28 PM UTC+8, Mark Lawrence wrote:
> On 16/04/2015 15:52, Blake McBride wrote:
> 
> > So, Python may be a cute language for you to use as an individual, but it is unwieldy in a real development environment.
> >
> 
> Thanks for this, one of the funniest comments I've read here in years. 
> It's good to see that new people share the humourous side of the Python 
> programming culture.  Long may it continue.
> 
> -- 
> My fellow Pythonistas, ask not what our language can do for you, ask
> what you can do for our language.
> 
> Mark Lawrence

Python is a cross-platform computer
language with dynamical types, 
functional programming featuers, oops, and generic programming featuers designed in the language.

Now the generic part is the main
progress in the software and IT
sectors 





From davea at davea.name  Sun Apr 19 14:52:23 2015
From: davea at davea.name (Dave Angel)
Date: Sun, 19 Apr 2015 14:52:23 -0400
Subject: Best search algorithm to find condition within a range
In-Reply-To: <5533a77d$0$12993$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
References: <2e3a3c01-20b3-4948-9b32-bd80ed46822b@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.89.1428413413.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <mg0pjk$8qs$2@dont-email.me>
 <fd544688-5e9c-418e-9ca9-11b9bcb83186@googlegroups.com>
 <55329d82$0$21225$e4fe514c@dreader37.news.xs4all.nl>
 <5533a77d$0$12993$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <5533F967.9080801@davea.name>

On 04/19/2015 09:02 AM, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> On Sun, 19 Apr 2015 04:08 am, Albert van der Horst wrote:
>
>> Fire up a lowlevel interpreter like Forth. (e.g. gforth)
>
> Yay! I'm not the only one who uses or likes Forth!
>
> Have you tried Factor? I'm wondering if it is worth looking at, as a more
> modern and less low-level version of Forth.
>

I also like Forth (since 83), but haven't done much in the last decade.

I was newsletter editor for our local FIG for many years.

I have met and debated with Elizabeth Rather, and been a "third hand" 
for Chuck Moore when he was re-soldering wires on his prototype Forth board.

You can see my name in the X3J14 standard:
    https://www.taygeta.com/forth/dpans1.htm#x3j14.membership


I'd be interested in a "more modern" Forth, but naturally, as a member 
of band of rugged individualists, I wonder if it can possibly satisfy 
more than one of us.

<googling...>
http://factorcode.org/

That site is my first time I recall seeing "concatenative" as a type of 
language.  Interesting way of thinking of it.  I just call it RPN, and 
relate it to the original HP35 calculator ($400, in about 1972).

 From the overview, it looks like they're at least aiming at what I 
envisioned as the next Forth I wanted to use.  Instead of putting ints 
and addresses on the stack, you put refs to objects, in the Python 
sense.  Those objects are also gc'ed.  I don't know yet whether 
everything is an object, or whether (like Java), you have boxed and 
unboxed thingies.

Sounds interesting, and well worth investigating.  thanks for pointing 
it out.

-- 
DaveA


From rosuav at gmail.com  Sun Apr 19 16:03:30 2015
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Mon, 20 Apr 2015 06:03:30 +1000
Subject: New to Python - block grouping (spaces)
In-Reply-To: <mh0qt8$9kl$1@dont-email.me>
References: <9fc57fc9-0399-4ff3-882a-d041f02827d8@googlegroups.com>
 <6580b5d5-92f5-4bfa-b1d0-889c69fe82bb@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.374.1429285961.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <mgrcb5$sn2$1@reader1.panix.com> <Y3bYw.302660$ms.24839@fx30.am4>
 <mailman.388.1429323788.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <7tMYw.252071$SO1.39320@fx43.am4>
 <mailman.405.1429456511.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <7413a8e7-b580-4b2f-84bc-dd13da2d36ba@googlegroups.com>
 <mh0qt8$9kl$1@dont-email.me>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmoLnKpxS-ooHVHEXvKXpFsYM-pczEcPvm_5mg8OBaqcZw@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Apr 20, 2015 at 4:07 AM, Dan Sommers <dan at tombstonezero.net> wrote:
> IMO, until git's successor tracks content-_not_-delimited-by-linefeeds,
> languages will continue to work that way.

Linefeeds are nothing to git - it tracks the entire content of the
file. When you ask to see the diff between two versions of a file,
that's when lines start to have meaning - and if you configure in your
own difftool, you're welcome to compare files in arbitrary ways. It's
not for the sake of source control that code is in lines of text -
it's for the sake of humans.

ChrisA


From davea at davea.name  Sun Apr 19 16:26:26 2015
From: davea at davea.name (Dave Angel)
Date: Sun, 19 Apr 2015 16:26:26 -0400
Subject: Python and fortran Interface suggestion
In-Reply-To: <66af8e33-b0c0-400f-a89e-bc6759a93c41@googlegroups.com>
References: <eb8e5e64-b46b-4315-a088-563a578a9bc6@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.407.1429456993.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <66af8e33-b0c0-400f-a89e-bc6759a93c41@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <55340F72.2070005@davea.name>

On 04/19/2015 11:56 AM, pauld11718 wrote:
> I shall provide with further details....
>
> Its about Mathematical modelling of a system. Fortran does one part and python does the other part (which I am suppose to provide).
> For a time interval tn --> t_n+1, fortran code generates some values, for which my python code accepts it as an input. It integrates some data for the same time step tn --> tn+1 and fortran computes based on this for the next time step t_n+1 --> t_n+2......and this is how loop continues.
>
> Its the fortran code calling my Python executable at all the time interval.

Then you'd better find out how it's calling your executable.  Calling it 
is very different than starting it.  The whole import x, y,z is done 
only upon initial startup of the python code.  You can then call the 
Python code as many times as you like without incurring that overhead again.

Naturally, if the guy who designed the Fortran code didn't think the 
same way, and is unavailable for further tweaking, you've got a problem.

>
> So,
> 1. Is it about rebuilding every thing using cx_freeze kind of stuff in windows?

Don't worry about how you get installed until after you figure out how 
you're going to get those calls and data back and forth between the 
Fortran code and your own.

>
> 2. As interfacing between fortran/python is via .dat file, so on every time-step python executable is called it shall open()/close() .dat file. This along with all those
> from **** import *'s
> are unnecessary.

Have you got specs on the whole dat file thing?  How will you know it's 
time to examine the file again?  As long as you get notified through 
some other mechanism, there's no problem in both programs having an open 
handle on the shared file.

For that matter, the notification can be implicit in the file as well.

But is there a designer behind this, or is the program intending to deal 
with something else and you're just trying to sneak in the back door?


>
> 3. I dont have access to fortran code. I shall provide the python executable only, which will take input from .dat file and write to another .dat file. So, what is your suggestion regarding socket/pipe and python installation on RAM? I have no idea with those.
>

Not much point in opening a pipe if the other end isn't going to be 
opened by the Fortran code.

> Isn't there a better way to handle such issues?
>

Sure, there are lots of ways.  But if the Fortran code is a closed book, 
you'll have to find out how it was designed, and do all the adapting at 
your end.

If it becomes open again, then you have the choice between having one of 
your languages call functions in the other (ie. single process), having 
some mechanism (like queues, or sockets) between two separately started 
processes, and having one program launch the other repeatedly.  That 
last is probably the least performant choice.

If you google "python Fortran" you'll get lots of hits.  You could start 
reading to see what your choices are.  But if the Fortran designer has 
left the room, you'll be stuck with whatever he put together.

And chances are very high that you'll need to develop, and certainly 
test, some parts of the project on the Windows machine, and particularly 
with the Windows C/Fortran compilers.


-- 
DaveA


From no.email at nospam.invalid  Sun Apr 19 16:36:10 2015
From: no.email at nospam.invalid (Paul Rubin)
Date: Sun, 19 Apr 2015 13:36:10 -0700
Subject: New to Python - block grouping (spaces)
References: <9fc57fc9-0399-4ff3-882a-d041f02827d8@googlegroups.com>
 <6580b5d5-92f5-4bfa-b1d0-889c69fe82bb@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.374.1429285961.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <mgrcb5$sn2$1@reader1.panix.com> <Y3bYw.302660$ms.24839@fx30.am4>
 <mailman.388.1429323788.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <7tMYw.252071$SO1.39320@fx43.am4>
 <5533e9f8$0$12986$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <87pp6z5005.fsf@jester.gateway.pace.com>

Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info> writes:
> You might be interested in the Coffeescript model....>
> You'll notice that Coffeescript isn't a mere preprocessor or source code
> transformation. 

I like Purescript (purescript.org) better than Coffeescript, but either
way, I don't see Python as an attractive target for that approach.
People code in Javascript because they have to (browser apps), so if
they hate the JS language but have to use it anyway, it's reasonable to
wrap a translation layer around it.  JS is basically used as a high
level assembly language.

By contrast, most people who use Python use it because they like it.
Sure there are warts here and there, but for the most part, if someone
doesn't like Python, they can pick something else that does the same
job.


From marko at pacujo.net  Sun Apr 19 16:41:03 2015
From: marko at pacujo.net (Marko Rauhamaa)
Date: Sun, 19 Apr 2015 23:41:03 +0300
Subject: New to Python - block grouping (spaces)
References: <9fc57fc9-0399-4ff3-882a-d041f02827d8@googlegroups.com>
 <6580b5d5-92f5-4bfa-b1d0-889c69fe82bb@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.374.1429285961.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <mgrcb5$sn2$1@reader1.panix.com> <Y3bYw.302660$ms.24839@fx30.am4>
 <mailman.388.1429323788.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <87k2x9yl7w.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <mailman.409.1429463769.12925.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <87383vx34w.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>

Michael Torrie <torriem at gmail.com>:

> On 04/18/2015 01:00 AM, Marko Rauhamaa wrote:
>> It would be possible to define a canonical AST storage format. Then,
>> your editor could "incarnate" the AST in the syntax of your choosing.
>
> As was just mentioned in another part of the thread, what you're
> describing is essentially LISP.

I don't see how that is more essentially Lisp than Python.

Lisp has a noncanonical textual representation just like Python.


Marko


From no.email at nospam.invalid  Sun Apr 19 16:44:40 2015
From: no.email at nospam.invalid (Paul Rubin)
Date: Sun, 19 Apr 2015 13:44:40 -0700
Subject: Best search algorithm to find condition within a range
References: <2e3a3c01-20b3-4948-9b32-bd80ed46822b@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.89.1428413413.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <mg0pjk$8qs$2@dont-email.me>
 <fd544688-5e9c-418e-9ca9-11b9bcb83186@googlegroups.com>
 <55329d82$0$21225$e4fe514c@dreader37.news.xs4all.nl>
 <5533a77d$0$12993$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <87lhhn4zlz.fsf@jester.gateway.pace.com>

Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info> writes:
> Have you tried Factor? I'm wondering if it is worth looking at, as a
> more modern and less low-level version of Forth.

Factor is basically Lisp with Forth-based syntax, from what I can tell.
Tagged objects, garbage collection, etc.

Forth is traditionally a self-hosted low level language with a
minimalistic spirit.  It uses native machine words containing numbers or
machine pointers like assembly language does, with no typechecking of
any sort.  I'd say there is a rather big cultural and technical divide
between Forth and Factor, despite some surface similarities.

The comp.lang.forth newsgroup is actually quite lively and interesting
and I'm a semi-regular there, though I use Forth only sort of casually,
mostly for the change of perspective it brings to programming, rather
than because I see it as a good way to deliver an end result.

This article is critical of Forth and somewhat unpopular on the Forth
newsgroup but it describes Forth's flavor from the "other side":

http://yosefk.com/blog/my-history-with-forth-stack-machines.html


From ddidussa at gmail.com  Sun Apr 19 16:56:50 2015
From: ddidussa at gmail.com (ddidussa at gmail.com)
Date: Sun, 19 Apr 2015 13:56:50 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Alternative to curve_fit() from scipy.optimize
Message-ID: <0abc3e47-9c88-4613-8e74-fe661892c5e4@googlegroups.com>

Hello,

I am trying to fit a curve of the form (ln(x+a))**b to a set of points.

However, curve_fit() from scipy.optimize fails to find a consistent optimal solution (as I increase the number of data points, the coefficients found vary greatly).

I suspect this is because of the algorithm that the function uses to solve the problem (Levenberg-Marquardt), as it finds a local minimum and returns those values.

Do you know of any package that contains a function that is more adequate to fit logarithmic functions? Or a curve-fitting function where I can specify which algorithm to solve the problem?

Thanks in advance,
Danielle


From bc at freeuk.com  Sun Apr 19 17:42:54 2015
From: bc at freeuk.com (BartC)
Date: Sun, 19 Apr 2015 22:42:54 +0100
Subject: New to Python - block grouping (spaces)
In-Reply-To: <mailman.402.1429448364.12925.python-list@python.org>
References: <9fc57fc9-0399-4ff3-882a-d041f02827d8@googlegroups.com>
 <6580b5d5-92f5-4bfa-b1d0-889c69fe82bb@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.374.1429285961.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <mgrcb5$sn2$1@reader1.panix.com> <Y3bYw.302660$ms.24839@fx30.am4>
 <mailman.388.1429323788.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <7tMYw.252071$SO1.39320@fx43.am4>
 <mailman.402.1429448364.12925.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <zjVYw.278475$kA6.39572@fx46.am4>

On 19/04/2015 13:59, Ben Finney wrote:
> BartC <bc at freeuk.com> writes:
>
>> Why shouldn't A configure his editor to display a Python program in
>> C-like syntax, and B configure their editor to use Python-like tabbed
>> syntax?
>
> I don't recall anyone saying that *shouldn't* be done. Feel free to
> make, and maintain and support and propagate and keep pace with changes
> in everything Python interacts with, a full Python stack that supports
> such flexibility.
>
>> A can write code in the preferred syntax, and B can view/modify
>> exactly the same code in /their/ preferred syntax. What would be the
>> problem?
>
> I can only invite you to embark on the project of a Python compiler
> which accepts such a switchable syntax, maintain it consistently over
> the lifetime of a project with significant numbers of people
> collaborating using different switch settings for that syntax, and
> working on the same code with different editor settings.
>
> Once you've done that, report back to us about the problems encountered.
>
>> (The actual stored representation of the program would be in one of
>> those two styles, or something else entirely; Lisp-like syntax for
>> example. It doesn't matter because no-one would care.
>
> No-one except the people who have to maintain and debug and continue
> developing a Python that supports multiple radically-different syntaxes.
> I suspect the efforts of those people is being discounted in your vision.

I used actual languages Python and C in my example, I should have used A 
and B or something.

If this was actually Python, then clearly source must be stored in 
Python syntax, to get around some of the objections that have been 
raised. Then all existing tools will work as before.

But it means an editor would need to understand Python extremely well in 
order to do the 2-way transformation I was suggesting. And while that 
would need maintaining, I don't think it's impossible (don't smart 
editors already understand a lot of the syntax? And if I was doing this, 
I would use a conventional editor, and an separate translator). But it 
would all be optional; everything would then still work as before.

However, I have played around with an actual project along these lines, 
but with some differences. Let's call actual Python source ".PY", and my 
preferred syntax ".JPY" (since those were the file extensions I used; 
"J" was the name I used to designate my syntax - syntax, not language, 
as the language must still be Python).

Here, the intention was to store source code in .JPY files, with .PY 
used as an intermediate form when I need to use an existing Python tool. 
So the translation was one-way (which suited me because I tend to do my 
own thing).

There are a few issues: I can still import .PY files created by others, 
but if it's one of mine created as .JPY, it just means it needs 
translating before running Python. Things such as eval() that have been 
mentioned, I haven't attempted. (Probably, it would be written as 
jeval() and would need to invoke the translator on the string, the 
results of which are passed to eval(). You can get around most such 
problems.)

So I'm aware of some of the things that are involved.

(BTW that project worked reasonably well, but I decided to go in a 
different direction: turning "J" from a mere syntax into an actual 
language of its own.)

-- 
Bartc


From gouzounakis at hotmail.com  Sun Apr 19 17:59:41 2015
From: gouzounakis at hotmail.com (D. Xenakis)
Date: Sun, 19 Apr 2015 14:59:41 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: HELP! How to return the returned value from a threaded function
In-Reply-To: <mailman.397.1429396072.12925.python-list@python.org>
References: <0d2087e0-e0ab-42da-9f73-48b55f4bb478@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.397.1429396072.12925.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <bdd24344-5009-4fd5-a264-35e44be563ca@googlegroups.com>

This worked like a charm.
http://code.activestate.com/recipes/84317-easy-threading-with-futures/


From ron3200 at gmail.com  Sun Apr 19 19:28:03 2015
From: ron3200 at gmail.com (Ron Adam)
Date: Sun, 19 Apr 2015 19:28:03 -0400
Subject: New to Python - block grouping (spaces)
In-Reply-To: <zjVYw.278475$kA6.39572@fx46.am4>
References: <9fc57fc9-0399-4ff3-882a-d041f02827d8@googlegroups.com>
 <6580b5d5-92f5-4bfa-b1d0-889c69fe82bb@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.374.1429285961.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <mgrcb5$sn2$1@reader1.panix.com> <Y3bYw.302660$ms.24839@fx30.am4>
 <mailman.388.1429323788.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <7tMYw.252071$SO1.39320@fx43.am4>
 <mailman.402.1429448364.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <zjVYw.278475$kA6.39572@fx46.am4>
Message-ID: <mh1dm4$ctp$1@ger.gmane.org>



On 04/19/2015 05:42 PM, BartC wrote:
>
> So I'm aware of some of the things that are involved.
>
> (BTW that project worked reasonably well, but I decided to go in a
> different direction: turning "J" from a mere syntax into an actual language
> of its own.)

Something you might try with your new language is to have an editor that 
can parse the source text to a tokenised "text" data file.  It should be a 
fairly direct text to text translation, so putting it into the editor 
should be doable.

Once you get that far, you can add pluggable token parsers to the editor 
that can unparse the token files to a specific user format for editing, and 
reparse it back to the standardised token file for storage.  Now the users 
can choose a customised dialect of your language.  And the compiler will 
work on a single token file type.

This will also remove the need for pretty printers and formatters as they 
will be built into the editors pluggable token parser.  Just have the 
editor tokenise and then immediately untokenise and you just checked for 
syntax errors and reformatted the program.   The highlighter could also 
work with the token parser as well.  The only catch is how to handle 
compile and run time errors.  The editor will need to read an error file 
and translate it back to the source.  I think it's doable but it will be 
tricky to get it to work well.

The reason to make the split at tokens is, it's at a stage that most of 
what is needed is already in a text editor.

The token file format becomes the bridge that spans the gap between the 
user/editor and the compiler/interpreter.

Then your compiler/interpreter is all implementation details that work on a 
single standardised token file format rather than unformatted text files.

Ron






From ben+python at benfinney.id.au  Sun Apr 19 19:59:19 2015
From: ben+python at benfinney.id.au (Ben Finney)
Date: Mon, 20 Apr 2015 09:59:19 +1000
Subject: New to Python - block grouping (spaces)
References: <9fc57fc9-0399-4ff3-882a-d041f02827d8@googlegroups.com>
 <6580b5d5-92f5-4bfa-b1d0-889c69fe82bb@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.374.1429285961.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <mgrcb5$sn2$1@reader1.panix.com> <Y3bYw.302660$ms.24839@fx30.am4>
 <mailman.388.1429323788.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <7tMYw.252071$SO1.39320@fx43.am4>
 <mailman.402.1429448364.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <zjVYw.278475$kA6.39572@fx46.am4>
Message-ID: <85h9sbpt48.fsf@benfinney.id.au>

BartC <bc at freeuk.com> writes:

> I used actual languages Python and C in my example, I should have used
> A and B or something.

If you had, then the topic drifts so far from being relevant to a Python
programming forum that I'd ask you to stop.

Perhaps that should have happened much sooner.

-- 
 \      ?If we have to give up either religion or education, we should |
  `\              give up education.? ?William Jennings Bryan, 1923-01 |
_o__)                                                                  |
Ben Finney



From bc at freeuk.com  Sun Apr 19 20:30:44 2015
From: bc at freeuk.com (BartC)
Date: Mon, 20 Apr 2015 01:30:44 +0100
Subject: New to Python - block grouping (spaces)
In-Reply-To: <mailman.0.1429487973.31470.python-list@python.org>
References: <9fc57fc9-0399-4ff3-882a-d041f02827d8@googlegroups.com>
 <6580b5d5-92f5-4bfa-b1d0-889c69fe82bb@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.374.1429285961.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <mgrcb5$sn2$1@reader1.panix.com> <Y3bYw.302660$ms.24839@fx30.am4>
 <mailman.388.1429323788.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <7tMYw.252071$SO1.39320@fx43.am4>
 <mailman.402.1429448364.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <zjVYw.278475$kA6.39572@fx46.am4>
 <mailman.0.1429487973.31470.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <VMXYw.239296$nQ7.235123@fx42.am4>

On 20/04/2015 00:59, Ben Finney wrote:
> BartC <bc at freeuk.com> writes:
>
>> I used actual languages Python and C in my example, I should have used
>> A and B or something.
>
> If you had, then the topic drifts so far from being relevant to a Python
> programming forum that I'd ask you to stop.
>
> Perhaps that should have happened much sooner.

Maybe it should have. This sub-thread started by you replying to this 
parenthesised comment of mine:

"(Actually *I* would quite like to know why languages don't have
switchable syntax anyway to allow for people's personal preferences.)"

I didn't mention any language by name at all!

-- 
Bartc


From melissa.familee at gmail.com  Sun Apr 19 21:37:58 2015
From: melissa.familee at gmail.com (josiah.l408@stu.nebo.edu)
Date: Sun, 19 Apr 2015 18:37:58 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: do you guys help newbies??
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1038393638.14951.python-list@python.org>
References: <F152taJVVumMKKECBlG0000212d@hotmail.com>
 <mailman.1038393638.14951.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <105618dd-2ad3-44d2-a0b6-e49fe0dd9ccc@googlegroups.com>

On Wednesday, November 27, 2002 at 4:01:02 AM UTC-7, John Hunter wrote:
> >>>>> "malik" == malik martin <malik_martin at hotmail.com> writes:
> 
>     malik>    i'm having a simple problem i guess.  but i still dont
>     malik> know the answer. anyone see anything wrong with this code?
>     malik> i think it's the line in the while loop that starts with
>     malik> "averagea = ..."  because it will execute once but once the
>     malik> loop goes around one more time it gets an error. is there
>     malik> it because averagea has been assigned a definate value? if
>     malik> so how do i record the value but reset averagea back to 0(
>     malik> i guess it would be 0)
> 
>     malik>    any help would be apreciated. thanks!!
> 
> I think you forgot to post your code.   Makes it harder.
> 
> JDH



From rustompmody at gmail.com  Sun Apr 19 21:46:33 2015
From: rustompmody at gmail.com (Rustom Mody)
Date: Sun, 19 Apr 2015 18:46:33 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: New to Python - block grouping (spaces)
In-Reply-To: <mh0qt8$9kl$1@dont-email.me>
References: <9fc57fc9-0399-4ff3-882a-d041f02827d8@googlegroups.com>
 <6580b5d5-92f5-4bfa-b1d0-889c69fe82bb@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.374.1429285961.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <mgrcb5$sn2$1@reader1.panix.com> <Y3bYw.302660$ms.24839@fx30.am4>
 <mailman.388.1429323788.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <7tMYw.252071$SO1.39320@fx43.am4>
 <mailman.405.1429456511.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <7413a8e7-b580-4b2f-84bc-dd13da2d36ba@googlegroups.com>
 <mh0qt8$9kl$1@dont-email.me>
Message-ID: <1a950923-aa39-4d8d-a884-59392fd4cc63@googlegroups.com>

On Sunday, April 19, 2015 at 11:38:45 PM UTC+5:30, Dan Sommers wrote:


> What's to revamp? My IDE is UNIX.

Precisely my point: source-file = text-file is centerstage of Unix philosophy
If you want to start by questioning that, you must question not merely the language (python or whatever) but the matrix in which it is embedded

> 
> Java programmers who don't dare leave their beloved pointy clicky IDE
> for a command line store their source files as plain text (and they
> cringe when I sed sed against those source files, but I digress).  The
> one project I ever did on a mainframe had a common text editor that
> supported FORTRAN, JCL, and COBOL, and stored source code in files of
> containing fixed length records of EBCDIC characters, IIRC.

And in all likelihood different from the files (not really text) created
by Cobol

> The notion
> of a "line of code," even in white-space-neutral languages, is deeply
> rooted in punch cards, and isn't going away anytime soon.
> 
> IMO, until git's successor tracks content-_not_-delimited-by-linefeeds,
> languages will continue to work that way.

Yeah...
For what I (and I guess bartC) are talking about to succeed we would need
- more structured diff/merge in git (etc)
- corresponding sed/grep etc
- editor (plugins)
- etc

http://blog.languager.org/2013/09/poorest-computer-users-are-programmers.html

So yes its more work than making a new language


From davea at davea.name  Sun Apr 19 21:53:55 2015
From: davea at davea.name (Dave Angel)
Date: Sun, 19 Apr 2015 21:53:55 -0400
Subject: do you guys help newbies??
In-Reply-To: <105618dd-2ad3-44d2-a0b6-e49fe0dd9ccc@googlegroups.com>
References: <F152taJVVumMKKECBlG0000212d@hotmail.com>
 <mailman.1038393638.14951.python-list@python.org>
 <105618dd-2ad3-44d2-a0b6-e49fe0dd9ccc@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <55345C33.4040001@davea.name>

On 04/19/2015 09:37 PM, josiah.l408 at stu.nebo.edu wrote:
> On Wednesday, November 27, 2002 at 4:01:02 AM UTC-7, John Hunter wrote:
>>>>>>> "malik" == malik martin <malik_martin at hotmail.com> writes:
>>
>>      malik>    i'm having a simple problem i guess.  but i still dont
>>      malik> know the answer. anyone see anything wrong with this code?
>>      malik> i think it's the line in the while loop that starts with
>>      malik> "averagea = ..."  because it will execute once but once the
>>      malik> loop goes around one more time it gets an error. is there
>>      malik> it because averagea has been assigned a definate value? if
>>      malik> so how do i record the value but reset averagea back to 0(
>>      malik> i guess it would be 0)
>>
>>      malik>    any help would be apreciated. thanks!!
>>
>> I think you forgot to post your code.   Makes it harder.
>>
>> JDH
>

And I think you forgot to check the date of the post to which you're 
responding.

-- 
DaveA


From rustompmody at gmail.com  Sun Apr 19 22:00:19 2015
From: rustompmody at gmail.com (Rustom Mody)
Date: Sun, 19 Apr 2015 19:00:19 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: New to Python - block grouping (spaces)
In-Reply-To: <87383vx34w.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
References: <9fc57fc9-0399-4ff3-882a-d041f02827d8@googlegroups.com>
 <6580b5d5-92f5-4bfa-b1d0-889c69fe82bb@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.374.1429285961.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <mgrcb5$sn2$1@reader1.panix.com> <Y3bYw.302660$ms.24839@fx30.am4>
 <mailman.388.1429323788.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <87k2x9yl7w.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <mailman.409.1429463769.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <87383vx34w.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
Message-ID: <ac62e96e-4b60-498f-bdf4-52d4457e4f14@googlegroups.com>

On Monday, April 20, 2015 at 2:11:13 AM UTC+5:30, Marko Rauhamaa wrote:
> Michael Torrie:
> 
> > On 04/18/2015 01:00 AM, Marko Rauhamaa wrote:
> >> It would be possible to define a canonical AST storage format. Then,
> >> your editor could "incarnate" the AST in the syntax of your choosing.
> >
> > As was just mentioned in another part of the thread, what you're
> > describing is essentially LISP.
> 
> I don't see how that is more essentially Lisp than Python.
> 
> Lisp has a noncanonical textual representation just like Python.
> 
> 
> Marko

Technically correct
Pragmatically: its like saying a meal that costs a penny, 100 EURO and 10K EURO
are all the same.
In C, access to parsing /unparsing is one of open up gcc/use lex/yacc
In python, it is use the introspective module(s)
In lisp its one call (read)/(print) -- at most; none if the REPL is used
effectively


From breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk  Sun Apr 19 22:01:12 2015
From: breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk (Mark Lawrence)
Date: Mon, 20 Apr 2015 03:01:12 +0100
Subject: do you guys help newbies??
In-Reply-To: <55345C33.4040001@davea.name>
References: <F152taJVVumMKKECBlG0000212d@hotmail.com>
 <mailman.1038393638.14951.python-list@python.org>
 <105618dd-2ad3-44d2-a0b6-e49fe0dd9ccc@googlegroups.com>
 <55345C33.4040001@davea.name>
Message-ID: <mh1ml8$avq$1@ger.gmane.org>

On 20/04/2015 02:53, Dave Angel wrote:
> On 04/19/2015 09:37 PM, josiah.l408 at stu.nebo.edu wrote:
>> On Wednesday, November 27, 2002 at 4:01:02 AM UTC-7, John Hunter wrote:
>>>>>>>> "malik" == malik martin <malik_martin at hotmail.com> writes:
>>>
>>>      malik>    i'm having a simple problem i guess.  but i still dont
>>>      malik> know the answer. anyone see anything wrong with this code?
>>>      malik> i think it's the line in the while loop that starts with
>>>      malik> "averagea = ..."  because it will execute once but once the
>>>      malik> loop goes around one more time it gets an error. is there
>>>      malik> it because averagea has been assigned a definate value? if
>>>      malik> so how do i record the value but reset averagea back to 0(
>>>      malik> i guess it would be 0)
>>>
>>>      malik>    any help would be apreciated. thanks!!
>>>
>>> I think you forgot to post your code.   Makes it harder.
>>>
>>> JDH
>>
>
> And I think you forgot to check the date of the post to which you're
> responding.
>

Rather sad to see those three initials in that post as well ?

-- 
My fellow Pythonistas, ask not what our language can do for you, ask
what you can do for our language.

Mark Lawrence



From rustompmody at gmail.com  Sun Apr 19 22:08:50 2015
From: rustompmody at gmail.com (Rustom Mody)
Date: Sun, 19 Apr 2015 19:08:50 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: New to Python - block grouping (spaces)
In-Reply-To: <5533eb85$0$12992$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
References: <9fc57fc9-0399-4ff3-882a-d041f02827d8@googlegroups.com>
 <6580b5d5-92f5-4bfa-b1d0-889c69fe82bb@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.374.1429285961.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <mgrcb5$sn2$1@reader1.panix.com> <Y3bYw.302660$ms.24839@fx30.am4>
 <mailman.388.1429323788.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <7tMYw.252071$SO1.39320@fx43.am4>
 <mailman.405.1429456511.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <7413a8e7-b580-4b2f-84bc-dd13da2d36ba@googlegroups.com>
 <5533eb85$0$12992$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <16d59891-6e28-4256-870a-903bb75aa953@googlegroups.com>

On Sunday, April 19, 2015 at 11:23:20 PM UTC+5:30, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> Programmers use source code as text for the same reason that wheels are
> still round. Wheels have been round for thousands of years! Why can't we
> try something modern, like triangular wheels? Or something fractal in
> three-dimensions... maybe cauliflower shaped?

So also did people believe for a good 2000 years that acceleration due to gravity
is proportional to mass until Galileo climbed up the tower of Pisa and dropped
2 different weight objects
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galileo%27s_Leaning_Tower_of_Pisa_experiment

Analogies can work both ways

And before you ask something like

| What does this have to do with creating a language with configurable syntax?
| Just because C/Unix was a good idea doesn't mean every idea related to
| programming language design is also a good idea. 

let me spell it out:
Prestige of Aristotle stymies progress of physics of 2 millennia 
likewise
Prestige of Unix development environment keeps us stuck with text files when
the world has moved on


From rosuav at gmail.com  Sun Apr 19 22:24:23 2015
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Mon, 20 Apr 2015 12:24:23 +1000
Subject: New to Python - block grouping (spaces)
In-Reply-To: <16d59891-6e28-4256-870a-903bb75aa953@googlegroups.com>
References: <9fc57fc9-0399-4ff3-882a-d041f02827d8@googlegroups.com>
 <6580b5d5-92f5-4bfa-b1d0-889c69fe82bb@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.374.1429285961.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <mgrcb5$sn2$1@reader1.panix.com> <Y3bYw.302660$ms.24839@fx30.am4>
 <mailman.388.1429323788.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <7tMYw.252071$SO1.39320@fx43.am4>
 <mailman.405.1429456511.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <7413a8e7-b580-4b2f-84bc-dd13da2d36ba@googlegroups.com>
 <5533eb85$0$12992$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <16d59891-6e28-4256-870a-903bb75aa953@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmrWn1=hPHTyYurugjAgLFE7SJsf7A6+j+Wj0XBiYo5oXQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Apr 20, 2015 at 12:08 PM, Rustom Mody <rustompmody at gmail.com> wrote:
> Prestige of Unix development environment keeps us stuck with text files when
> the world has moved on

And what, pray, would we gain by using non-text source code? Aside
from binding ourselves to a set of tools, which would create an even
worse lock-in?

ChrisA


From breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk  Sun Apr 19 22:38:39 2015
From: breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk (Mark Lawrence)
Date: Mon, 20 Apr 2015 03:38:39 +0100
Subject: New to Python - block grouping (spaces)
In-Reply-To: <16d59891-6e28-4256-870a-903bb75aa953@googlegroups.com>
References: <9fc57fc9-0399-4ff3-882a-d041f02827d8@googlegroups.com>
 <6580b5d5-92f5-4bfa-b1d0-889c69fe82bb@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.374.1429285961.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <mgrcb5$sn2$1@reader1.panix.com> <Y3bYw.302660$ms.24839@fx30.am4>
 <mailman.388.1429323788.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <7tMYw.252071$SO1.39320@fx43.am4>
 <mailman.405.1429456511.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <7413a8e7-b580-4b2f-84bc-dd13da2d36ba@googlegroups.com>
 <5533eb85$0$12992$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <16d59891-6e28-4256-870a-903bb75aa953@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <mh1orf$ah6$1@ger.gmane.org>

On 20/04/2015 03:08, Rustom Mody wrote:
> Prestige of Unix development environment keeps us stuck with text files when
> the world has moved on
>

If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

-- 
My fellow Pythonistas, ask not what our language can do for you, ask
what you can do for our language.

Mark Lawrence



From steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info  Sun Apr 19 22:42:22 2015
From: steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: Mon, 20 Apr 2015 12:42:22 +1000
Subject: New to Python - block grouping (spaces)
References: <9fc57fc9-0399-4ff3-882a-d041f02827d8@googlegroups.com>
 <6580b5d5-92f5-4bfa-b1d0-889c69fe82bb@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.374.1429285961.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <mgrcb5$sn2$1@reader1.panix.com> <Y3bYw.302660$ms.24839@fx30.am4>
 <mailman.388.1429323788.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <7tMYw.252071$SO1.39320@fx43.am4>
 <mailman.405.1429456511.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <7413a8e7-b580-4b2f-84bc-dd13da2d36ba@googlegroups.com>
 <mh0qt8$9kl$1@dont-email.me>
Message-ID: <5534678e$0$12984$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

On Mon, 20 Apr 2015 04:07 am, Dan Sommers wrote:

> Smalltalk, Forth, and LISP don't follow the program=textfile system
> (although LISP can, and does sometimes);

Correct, and the fact that they wrapped code and environment into a
completely opaque image was a major factor in their decline in popularity
for all three languages.

http://www.ianbicking.org/where-smalltalk-went-wrong.html
http://www.ianbicking.org/where-smalltalk-went-wrong-2.html


Source as text means that you can use any text based tool with little or no
effort. Using a non-text binary blob for source code means that your
options are much more limited. Look at source control software like git and
mercurial (hg): they automatically work on any language based on lines of
text code. There is no need for hg-for-java, hg-for-python, hg-for-ruby,
hg-for-javascript, hg-for-c, there is just hg. But if languages were
image-based like Smalltalk, hg would require special knowledge of the
internals of each compiler's image file format.


-- 
Steven



From rustompmody at gmail.com  Sun Apr 19 22:43:49 2015
From: rustompmody at gmail.com (Rustom Mody)
Date: Sun, 19 Apr 2015 19:43:49 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: New to Python - block grouping (spaces)
In-Reply-To: <mailman.3.1429496666.31470.python-list@python.org>
References: <9fc57fc9-0399-4ff3-882a-d041f02827d8@googlegroups.com>
 <6580b5d5-92f5-4bfa-b1d0-889c69fe82bb@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.374.1429285961.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <mgrcb5$sn2$1@reader1.panix.com> <Y3bYw.302660$ms.24839@fx30.am4>
 <mailman.388.1429323788.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <7tMYw.252071$SO1.39320@fx43.am4>
 <mailman.405.1429456511.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <7413a8e7-b580-4b2f-84bc-dd13da2d36ba@googlegroups.com>
 <5533eb85$0$12992$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <16d59891-6e28-4256-870a-903bb75aa953@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.3.1429496666.31470.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <a745d401-190d-4e7b-bc90-85f7e2cd6504@googlegroups.com>

On Monday, April 20, 2015 at 7:54:37 AM UTC+5:30, Chris Angelico wrote:
> On Mon, Apr 20, 2015 at 12:08 PM, Rustom Mody  wrote:
> > Prestige of Unix development environment keeps us stuck with text files when
> > the world has moved on
> 
> And what, pray, would we gain by using non-text source code? Aside
> from binding ourselves to a set of tools, which would create an even
> worse lock-in?

Threads like this one would become pass?.
In html for example there's things like fluid-layout.
So also if indentation was strictly delimited by tabs
then whether you like to see your tabs as 4 spaces and I like to see them as 2
would be as relevant to our discussing shared code as the fact that I wearing
pyjamas and you are in a 3 piece suit.

The key thing to make this work is that the tab needs to be a reasonably solid
non-leaky abstraction for denoting an indent.
As soon as you allow both tabs and spaces all the interminable bikeshedding starts 

In many ways this is like the browser wars.
If browsers had been made like half-decent compilers then non-compliant html
wouldn't render and would get corrected on short order.
Instead browsers overreach themselves to be nice (to users) and end up being
horrible to web-developers who now need to maintain 1 dozen browsers ? 2 dozen versions.

Likewise all the overreaching to be allow 'free-form' layout puts paid to all
attempts at richer structure comprehending tools.
As a quick example try this:
You've a 10-file python project in which you want to replace function 'f' 
by function 'longname'
How easy is it?

I am ready to bet that if you use IE-ish its easy if you use classic editors
not so.

This unfortunate choice between sophistication+lockin vs uncivilization+freedom
is unnecessary


From steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info  Sun Apr 19 22:53:50 2015
From: steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: Mon, 20 Apr 2015 12:53:50 +1000
Subject: Best search algorithm to find condition within a range
References: <2e3a3c01-20b3-4948-9b32-bd80ed46822b@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.89.1428413413.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <mg0pjk$8qs$2@dont-email.me>
 <fd544688-5e9c-418e-9ca9-11b9bcb83186@googlegroups.com>
 <55329d82$0$21225$e4fe514c@dreader37.news.xs4all.nl>
 <5533a77d$0$12993$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <87egngw4i6.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
Message-ID: <55346a3f$0$12981$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

On Mon, 20 Apr 2015 12:56 am, Marko Rauhamaa wrote:

> Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info>:
> 
>> Yay! I'm not the only one who uses or likes Forth!
> 
> Out of interest, is Forth different from PostScript? I have done some
> small-time programming in PostScript but nothing in Forth.


Both Forth and PostScript are concatenative stack-based languages with a
reverse Polish notation syntax. Other than that, I imagine that they are
very different. I have zero experience with Postscript and only a little
with Forth (enough to know that I like it more in principle than practice),
so the following is mostly inferred rather than from experience.

Postscript is interpreted, with strong dynamic typing, Lisp-like data
structures, and garbage collection. It is designed for generating vector
images. It can be used for general purpose programming, but that's not its
strong suit.

Technically, Forth is also interpreted, but that may be misleading if you
think of it in traditional terms. The runtime interpreter (virtual machine)
may be as simple as a handful of commands to follow a linked list of
subroutines calling each one in turn.

One of the design principles of Forth is that compiled code is extremely
compact and fast, which makes it ideal for running at a very low level on
constrained hardware.

Older Forths are untyped. All data is a machine word on a stack. Arrays and
equivalent are implemented by dropping the address of the array on the
stack and then using redirection to access the array, which makes it rather
like C.

Unlike C, Forth puts the book-keeping related to function calls on a
separate stack, which simplifies the runtime significantly.

Newer Forths added a third stack for floating point values.


The two classic Forth books back in the 80s were Starting Forth and Thinking
Forth, by Leo Brodie:

http://www.forth.com/starting-forth/

http://thinking-forth.sourceforge.net/


They're a bit old, and the Starting Forth book in particular has a level of
whimsy which feels a bit odd to many people, but you can browse them to get
a feel for the language.



-- 
Steven



From steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info  Sun Apr 19 22:54:34 2015
From: steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: Mon, 20 Apr 2015 12:54:34 +1000
Subject: New to Python - block grouping (spaces)
References: <9fc57fc9-0399-4ff3-882a-d041f02827d8@googlegroups.com>
 <6580b5d5-92f5-4bfa-b1d0-889c69fe82bb@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.374.1429285961.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <mgrcb5$sn2$1@reader1.panix.com> <Y3bYw.302660$ms.24839@fx30.am4>
 <mailman.388.1429323788.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <87k2x9yl7w.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <mailman.409.1429463769.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <87383vx34w.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
Message-ID: <55346a6a$0$12981$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

On Mon, 20 Apr 2015 06:41 am, Marko Rauhamaa wrote:

> Lisp has a noncanonical textual representation just like Python.

Python has a noncanonical textual representation?

What is a noncanonical textual representation, and where can I see some?



-- 
Steven



From rosuav at gmail.com  Sun Apr 19 23:03:50 2015
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Mon, 20 Apr 2015 13:03:50 +1000
Subject: New to Python - block grouping (spaces)
In-Reply-To: <a745d401-190d-4e7b-bc90-85f7e2cd6504@googlegroups.com>
References: <9fc57fc9-0399-4ff3-882a-d041f02827d8@googlegroups.com>
 <6580b5d5-92f5-4bfa-b1d0-889c69fe82bb@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.374.1429285961.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <mgrcb5$sn2$1@reader1.panix.com> <Y3bYw.302660$ms.24839@fx30.am4>
 <mailman.388.1429323788.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <7tMYw.252071$SO1.39320@fx43.am4>
 <mailman.405.1429456511.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <7413a8e7-b580-4b2f-84bc-dd13da2d36ba@googlegroups.com>
 <5533eb85$0$12992$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <16d59891-6e28-4256-870a-903bb75aa953@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.3.1429496666.31470.python-list@python.org>
 <a745d401-190d-4e7b-bc90-85f7e2cd6504@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmob=9PLbaAebgC6T_thGWO2zHJ6aHAqZx=5KX=95Xq2AQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Apr 20, 2015 at 12:43 PM, Rustom Mody <rustompmody at gmail.com> wrote:
> The key thing to make this work is that the tab needs to be a reasonably solid
> non-leaky abstraction for denoting an indent.
> As soon as you allow both tabs and spaces all the interminable bikeshedding starts
>

Whatever you change, there will be stuff for people to argue about.
Trust me, that's nothing to do with the nature of programming
languages... it's about the nature of people.

> In many ways this is like the browser wars.
> If browsers had been made like half-decent compilers then non-compliant html
> wouldn't render and would get corrected on short order.
> Instead browsers overreach themselves to be nice (to users) and end up being
> horrible to web-developers who now need to maintain 1 dozen browsers ? 2 dozen versions.
>
> Likewise all the overreaching to be allow 'free-form' layout puts paid to all
> attempts at richer structure comprehending tools.
> As a quick example try this:
> You've a 10-file python project in which you want to replace function 'f'
> by function 'longname'
> How easy is it?
>
> I am ready to bet that if you use IE-ish its easy if you use classic editors
> not so.

If you have a ten-file project that's identifying a key function
globally as 'f', then you already have a problem. If your names are
more useful and informative, a global search-and-replace will do the
job.

What's your point, though? Somewhere along the way, you need to have
identifiers, and those identifiers need to explain *to the human* what
code you're referring to. Whether they're line labels in assembly
language, memory locations in machine code, linker relocation table
entries, fully-qualified module/class/method names, or simple flat
identifiers, they exist as much for the humans as for the compiler. If
you change the basic syscall from INT 21 to CALL __SYSTEM, everyone
who uses your code needs to change his/her *head* to cope with your
change. There is fundamentally no tool which can do this for you.

You can add a level of indirection to program loading by having the
function name turn into some sort of internal identifier when you save
the source file, and then you can rename the function in one place.
Great! But somehow you still need to have humans recognize which
functions they want to call. Do they have to point-and-click to pick a
function? I've used IDEs like that, and they are a pain.

ChrisA


From rosuav at gmail.com  Sun Apr 19 23:05:30 2015
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Mon, 20 Apr 2015 13:05:30 +1000
Subject: New to Python - block grouping (spaces)
In-Reply-To: <55346a6a$0$12981$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
References: <9fc57fc9-0399-4ff3-882a-d041f02827d8@googlegroups.com>
 <6580b5d5-92f5-4bfa-b1d0-889c69fe82bb@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.374.1429285961.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <mgrcb5$sn2$1@reader1.panix.com> <Y3bYw.302660$ms.24839@fx30.am4>
 <mailman.388.1429323788.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <87k2x9yl7w.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <mailman.409.1429463769.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <87383vx34w.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <55346a6a$0$12981$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmo8OUS2ftVbQ=9VfDdXU10rz-F_2akF9wavx8Et=xmx-g@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Apr 20, 2015 at 12:54 PM, Steven D'Aprano
<steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info> wrote:
> On Mon, 20 Apr 2015 06:41 am, Marko Rauhamaa wrote:
>
>> Lisp has a noncanonical textual representation just like Python.
>
> Python has a noncanonical textual representation?
>
> What is a noncanonical textual representation, and where can I see some?

I think what Marko means is that there is a textual way to represent
Python source code, and there are multiple files that represent
identical Python programs, hence "noncanonical". If you have two UTF-8
encoded files that contain the same text, they will have the exact
same bytes in them, because UTF-8 defines a canonical byte
representation for text. You can't say that about Python source.

ChrisA


From rustompmody at gmail.com  Sun Apr 19 23:28:04 2015
From: rustompmody at gmail.com (Rustom Mody)
Date: Sun, 19 Apr 2015 20:28:04 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: New to Python - block grouping (spaces)
In-Reply-To: <mailman.5.1429499040.31470.python-list@python.org>
References: <9fc57fc9-0399-4ff3-882a-d041f02827d8@googlegroups.com>
 <6580b5d5-92f5-4bfa-b1d0-889c69fe82bb@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.374.1429285961.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <mgrcb5$sn2$1@reader1.panix.com> <Y3bYw.302660$ms.24839@fx30.am4>
 <mailman.388.1429323788.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <7tMYw.252071$SO1.39320@fx43.am4>
 <mailman.405.1429456511.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <7413a8e7-b580-4b2f-84bc-dd13da2d36ba@googlegroups.com>
 <5533eb85$0$12992$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <16d59891-6e28-4256-870a-903bb75aa953@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.3.1429496666.31470.python-list@python.org>
 <a745d401-190d-4e7b-bc90-85f7e2cd6504@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.5.1429499040.31470.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <17ed0132-89d5-4b45-81b5-b61328a21198@googlegroups.com>

On Monday, April 20, 2015 at 8:34:12 AM UTC+5:30, Chris Angelico wrote:
> On Mon, Apr 20, 2015 at 12:43 PM, Rustom Mody  wrote:
> > The key thing to make this work is that the tab needs to be a reasonably solid
> > non-leaky abstraction for denoting an indent.
> > As soon as you allow both tabs and spaces all the interminable bikeshedding starts
> >
> 
> Whatever you change, there will be stuff for people to argue about.
> Trust me, that's nothing to do with the nature of programming
> languages... it's about the nature of people.
> 
> > In many ways this is like the browser wars.
> > If browsers had been made like half-decent compilers then non-compliant html
> > wouldn't render and would get corrected on short order.
> > Instead browsers overreach themselves to be nice (to users) and end up being
> > horrible to web-developers who now need to maintain 1 dozen browsers ? 2 dozen versions.
> >
> > Likewise all the overreaching to be allow 'free-form' layout puts paid to all
> > attempts at richer structure comprehending tools.
> > As a quick example try this:
> > You've a 10-file python project in which you want to replace function 'f'
> > by function 'longname'
> > How easy is it?
> >
> > I am ready to bet that if you use IE-ish its easy if you use classic editors
> > not so.
> 
> If you have a ten-file project that's identifying a key function
> globally as 'f', then you already have a problem. If your names are
> more useful and informative, a global search-and-replace will do the
> job.

Are you sure your global search-and-replace will do a proper job inside
strings and comments?

> 
> What's your point, though?

Point?

Nnotions like identifier (and dozens of others) are straightforwardly
present and available inside the python implementation.
However the language implementation is a hard-n-high silo
For the programmer accessing the language through an editor these notions are
not available unless hi-power explosives are used to punch holes in the silo
-- eg open Cpython sources.

The Smalltalks and Lisps organized the world differently -- the programmer was
inside the silo with the corresponding advantages of power and disadvantages of
imprisonment.

I (and I guess BartC) like to dream of a Utopia that is powerful and free


From rosuav at gmail.com  Sun Apr 19 23:44:08 2015
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Mon, 20 Apr 2015 13:44:08 +1000
Subject: New to Python - block grouping (spaces)
In-Reply-To: <17ed0132-89d5-4b45-81b5-b61328a21198@googlegroups.com>
References: <9fc57fc9-0399-4ff3-882a-d041f02827d8@googlegroups.com>
 <6580b5d5-92f5-4bfa-b1d0-889c69fe82bb@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.374.1429285961.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <mgrcb5$sn2$1@reader1.panix.com> <Y3bYw.302660$ms.24839@fx30.am4>
 <mailman.388.1429323788.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <7tMYw.252071$SO1.39320@fx43.am4>
 <mailman.405.1429456511.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <7413a8e7-b580-4b2f-84bc-dd13da2d36ba@googlegroups.com>
 <5533eb85$0$12992$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <16d59891-6e28-4256-870a-903bb75aa953@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.3.1429496666.31470.python-list@python.org>
 <a745d401-190d-4e7b-bc90-85f7e2cd6504@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.5.1429499040.31470.python-list@python.org>
 <17ed0132-89d5-4b45-81b5-b61328a21198@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmoa3uoAvxuH+SUwA07jCf0Lba5_zTU-Azd0FcA0HN3YUQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Apr 20, 2015 at 1:28 PM, Rustom Mody <rustompmody at gmail.com> wrote:
>> If you have a ten-file project that's identifying a key function
>> globally as 'f', then you already have a problem. If your names are
>> more useful and informative, a global search-and-replace will do the
>> job.
>
> Are you sure your global search-and-replace will do a proper job inside
> strings and comments?

Yep! Any occurrence inside a string literal or comment is generally
going to be referring to the same function, and thus should be
renamed. Can your system handle _that_? Example:

def add_grab(widget):
    """Add a widget to the grabbed widgets"""

def remove_grab(widget):
    """Undo the effect of add_grab() on a given widget"""
    # Note that multiple add_grab() calls will add multiple instances,
    # so we remove only the first.

Every occurrence of add_grab here is referring to the function. If you
do a global search-and-replace, they'll be caught automatically. With
your non-text magic, you'd need to explicitly implement this as a
feature. Text files make life easier!

>> What's your point, though?
>
> Point?
>
> Nnotions like identifier (and dozens of others) are straightforwardly
> present and available inside the python implementation.
> However the language implementation is a hard-n-high silo
> For the programmer accessing the language through an editor these notions are
> not available unless hi-power explosives are used to punch holes in the silo
> -- eg open Cpython sources.

Would it help if Python grew a function like Pike's
Function.defined(), which tells you exactly where, even in C source,
something was defined? I don't honestly see that looking in the
CPython source is such a common need that it begs for assistance, and
I definitely don't see how a non-text source code format would improve
on it. Feel like elaborating?

ChrisA


From sth.srn at gmail.com  Sun Apr 19 23:57:52 2015
From: sth.srn at gmail.com (sth.srn at gmail.com)
Date: Sun, 19 Apr 2015 20:57:52 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: need help removing 'dev-r0' part from a python package
Message-ID: <1e8c249a-61bd-440c-9233-d274fa647db2@googlegroups.com>

My package 'webpreview'[https://github.com/ludbek/webpreview] has new version '1.0.3'. I used 'sdist' to bundle it. Unfortunately it names it 'webpreview-1.0.3dev-r0.tar.gz' instead of 'webpreview-1.0.3.tar.gz' making it unsuitable to upload to pypi.

What is causing sdist to append 'dev' stuff in the package. The source can be available in the link above. Thanx for you help.


From rosuav at gmail.com  Mon Apr 20 00:15:00 2015
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Mon, 20 Apr 2015 14:15:00 +1000
Subject: need help removing 'dev-r0' part from a python package
In-Reply-To: <1e8c249a-61bd-440c-9233-d274fa647db2@googlegroups.com>
References: <1e8c249a-61bd-440c-9233-d274fa647db2@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmqWq0e2kp6NusOo_yKYtuVrVmwCxBx9AqYjg4zAiazdRQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Apr 20, 2015 at 1:57 PM,  <sth.srn at gmail.com> wrote:
> My package 'webpreview'[https://github.com/ludbek/webpreview] has new version '1.0.3'. I used 'sdist' to bundle it. Unfortunately it names it 'webpreview-1.0.3dev-r0.tar.gz' instead of 'webpreview-1.0.3.tar.gz' making it unsuitable to upload to pypi.
>
> What is causing sdist to append 'dev' stuff in the package. The source can be available in the link above. Thanx for you help.

I'm not an expert on PyPI uploads, but I'm guessing this might be it:

https://github.com/ludbek/webpreview/blob/master/setup.cfg

[egg_info]
tag_build = dev
tag_svn_revision = true

"r0" looks like a Subversion revision identifier, and you're tagging
it with "dev".

ChrisA


From ben+python at benfinney.id.au  Mon Apr 20 00:17:18 2015
From: ben+python at benfinney.id.au (Ben Finney)
Date: Mon, 20 Apr 2015 14:17:18 +1000
Subject: need help removing 'dev-r0' part from a python package
References: <1e8c249a-61bd-440c-9233-d274fa647db2@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <85vbgro2lt.fsf@benfinney.id.au>

sth.srn at gmail.com writes:

> My package 'webpreview'[https://github.com/ludbek/webpreview] has new
> version '1.0.3'. I used 'sdist' to bundle it.

I'll assume you are using a ?./setup.py? program to define and generate
the distribution.

The ?setup? function in that program takes a ?version? parameter. What
value is your program passing to that parameter? What generates that
value?

-- 
 \         Fry: ?Take that, poor people!?  Leela: ?But Fry, you?re not |
  `\     rich.?  Fry: ?No, but I will be someday, and then people like |
_o__)                                  me better watch out!? ?Futurama |
Ben Finney



From sth.srn at gmail.com  Mon Apr 20 00:41:23 2015
From: sth.srn at gmail.com (suren shrestha)
Date: Sun, 19 Apr 2015 21:41:23 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: need help removing 'dev-r0' part from a python package
In-Reply-To: <mailman.8.1429503310.31470.python-list@python.org>
References: <1e8c249a-61bd-440c-9233-d274fa647db2@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.8.1429503310.31470.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <a345da4a-bfcd-4ebc-8cb3-0f5cf43c73aa@googlegroups.com>

On Monday, April 20, 2015 at 10:00:26 AM UTC+5:45, Chris Angelico wrote:
> On Mon, Apr 20, 2015 at 1:57 PM,  <sth... at gmail.com> wrote:
> > My package 'webpreview'[https://github.com/ludbek/webpreview] has new version '1.0.3'. I used 'sdist' to bundle it. Unfortunately it names it 'webpreview-1.0.3dev-r0.tar.gz' instead of 'webpreview-1.0.3.tar.gz' making it unsuitable to upload to pypi.
> >
> > What is causing sdist to append 'dev' stuff in the package. The source can be available in the link above. Thanx for you help.
> 
> I'm not an expert on PyPI uploads, but I'm guessing this might be it:
> 
> https://github.com/ludbek/webpreview/blob/master/setup.cfg
> 
> [egg_info]
> tag_build = dev
> tag_svn_revision = true
> 
> "r0" looks like a Subversion revision identifier, and you're tagging
> it with "dev".
> 
> ChrisA


Thanx ChrisA, I will remove it and see what happens :)


From marko at pacujo.net  Mon Apr 20 01:09:35 2015
From: marko at pacujo.net (Marko Rauhamaa)
Date: Mon, 20 Apr 2015 08:09:35 +0300
Subject: New to Python - block grouping (spaces)
References: <9fc57fc9-0399-4ff3-882a-d041f02827d8@googlegroups.com>
 <6580b5d5-92f5-4bfa-b1d0-889c69fe82bb@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.374.1429285961.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <mgrcb5$sn2$1@reader1.panix.com> <Y3bYw.302660$ms.24839@fx30.am4>
 <mailman.388.1429323788.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <87k2x9yl7w.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <mailman.409.1429463769.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <87383vx34w.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
 <55346a6a$0$12981$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <mailman.6.1429499133.31470.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <87mw23v10w.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>

Chris Angelico <rosuav at gmail.com>:

> On Mon, Apr 20, 2015 at 12:54 PM, Steven D'Aprano
> <steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info> wrote:
>> On Mon, 20 Apr 2015 06:41 am, Marko Rauhamaa wrote:
>> Python has a noncanonical textual representation?
>>
>> What is a noncanonical textual representation, and where can I see
>> some?
>
> I think what Marko means is that there is a textual way to represent
> Python source code, and there are multiple files that represent
> identical Python programs, hence "noncanonical". If you have two UTF-8
> encoded files that contain the same text, they will have the exact
> same bytes in them, because UTF-8 defines a canonical byte
> representation for text. You can't say that about Python source.

Yes, more than one Python source file produces an identical AST, and
none of them is obviously the "normal form."


Marko


From rosuav at gmail.com  Mon Apr 20 02:20:14 2015
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Mon, 20 Apr 2015 16:20:14 +1000
Subject: docstringargs: Python module for setting up argparse
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmpDGuThNcL975+Kq4eWAP4NqbkU4-ELPOfxh7UXsb51eA@mail.gmail.com>

Looking for comments, recommendations, advice that I've just wasted
half a day on something utterly useless, whatever it be!

I've just posted a new (single-module) package to PyPI that simplifies
the creation of an argparse UI for a program that consists of a number
of subcommands. It uses function docstrings and, optionally,
annotations, to put together the necessary argparse configs, without
needing all the names to be written out lots of times.

https://github.com/Rosuav/docstringargs
https://pypi.python.org/pypi/docstringargs

Examples are in the source tree:
https://github.com/Rosuav/docstringargs/blob/master/demo.py
https://github.com/Rosuav/docstringargs/blob/master/demo_anno.py

As this is the first project I've pushed up to PyPI, it's entirely
possible - even likely - that I've made a blooper in the metadata
somewhere. It does appear to install fine using pip, but I don't know
if something's going to cause problems down the line somewhere. All
advice gratefully received.

Is this something worth pursuing?

ChrisA


From steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info  Mon Apr 20 03:22:52 2015
From: steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: Mon, 20 Apr 2015 17:22:52 +1000
Subject: docstringargs: Python module for setting up argparse
References: <mailman.10.1429510817.31470.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <5534a94d$0$12985$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

On Monday 20 April 2015 16:20, Chris Angelico wrote:

> Looking for comments, recommendations, advice that I've just wasted
> half a day on something utterly useless, whatever it be!
> 
> I've just posted a new (single-module) package to PyPI that simplifies
> the creation of an argparse UI for a program that consists of a number
> of subcommands. It uses function docstrings and, optionally,
> annotations, to put together the necessary argparse configs, without
> needing all the names to be written out lots of times.

How is your module different from Docopt?

http://docopt.org/



-- 
Steve



From rosuav at gmail.com  Mon Apr 20 03:45:58 2015
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Mon, 20 Apr 2015 17:45:58 +1000
Subject: docstringargs: Python module for setting up argparse
In-Reply-To: <5534a94d$0$12985$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
References: <mailman.10.1429510817.31470.python-list@python.org>
 <5534a94d$0$12985$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmp00ovt=e5wP8Q8E49DV5ZyBQsBLQLcQyeQ7P4320TZXw@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Apr 20, 2015 at 5:22 PM, Steven D'Aprano
<steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info> wrote:
> On Monday 20 April 2015 16:20, Chris Angelico wrote:
>
>> Looking for comments, recommendations, advice that I've just wasted
>> half a day on something utterly useless, whatever it be!
>>
>> I've just posted a new (single-module) package to PyPI that simplifies
>> the creation of an argparse UI for a program that consists of a number
>> of subcommands. It uses function docstrings and, optionally,
>> annotations, to put together the necessary argparse configs, without
>> needing all the names to be written out lots of times.
>
> How is your module different from Docopt?
>
> http://docopt.org/

Oops, I was going to mention something about docopt in the readme,
forgot to actually word anything up. This was partly inspired by
docopt, but docopt still has a lot of the duplication of names. You
have to set up your argument parsing and your functions independently,
and keep them in sync. I could probably have made docstringargs as a
docopt front-end rather than an argparse front-end, and it would have
been roughly the same work.

The basic (and Python 2 compatible) usage still needs a bit of
duplication of names, but it's minimal:

@cmdline
def count(top, step="1"):
    """Count from 1, human style

    top: Number to count up to
    --step: Increment to count by
    """

If you can restrict yourself to Python 3, you can use annotations instead:

@cmdline
def adduser(user: "Name of user to add", password: "Password for the
new user"=""):
    """Add a new user"""

Either way, the definition of the subcommand is entirely in the
function header - there's nothing anywhere else in the program that
defines anything. Synchronization between a function signature and its
own docstring is pretty easy compared to making sure you match names
and functionality in disparate locations - that's the whole point of
docstrings, after all.

Hope that answers that question! I'll nut something out for the readme
at some point.

ChrisA


From larry at hastings.org  Mon Apr 20 04:16:00 2015
From: larry at hastings.org (Larry Hastings)
Date: Mon, 20 Apr 2015 01:16:00 -0700
Subject: [RELEASED] Python 3.5.0a4 is now available
Message-ID: <5534B5C0.2030800@hastings.org>



On behalf of the Python development community and the Python 3.5 release 
team, I'm thrilled to announce the availability of Python 3.5.0a4.   
Python 3.5.0a4 is the fourth and alpha release of Python 3.5, which will 
be the next major release of Python. Python 3.5 is still under 
development, and is not yet complete.

This is a preview release, and its use is not recommended for production 
settings.

The next release of Python 3.5 will be 3.5.0b1, the first beta release.  
Python 3.5 will enter "feature freeze" at this time; no new features 
will be added to 3.5 after this point.  Python 3.5.0b1 is scheduled to 
be released May 22, 2015.

Three important notes for Windows users about Python 3.5.0a4:

  * If you have previously installed Python 3.5.0a1, you may need to
    manually uninstall it before installing Python 3.5.0a4 (issue23612).
  * If installing Python 3.5.0a4 as a non-privileged user, you may need
    to escalate to administrator privileges to install an update to your
    C runtime libraries.
  * There is now a third type of Windows installer for Python 3.5.  In
    addition to the conventional installer and the web-based installer,
    Python 3.5 now has an embeddable installer designed to be run as
    part of a larger application's installer for apps using or extending
    Python.


You can find Python 3.5.0a4 here:

    https://www.python.org/downloads/release/python-350a4/

Happy hacking,


//arry/
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/attachments/20150420/41c52b5c/attachment.html>

From gianluca.pucci at gmail.com  Mon Apr 20 04:29:28 2015
From: gianluca.pucci at gmail.com (gianluca.pucci at gmail.com)
Date: Mon, 20 Apr 2015 01:29:28 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Python and lotus notes
Message-ID: <85f7cf14-c6b2-451a-94f2-d798eb38da37@googlegroups.com>

Hi,

i am having a problem when i try to access lotus notes with python, think i do all ok but it seems something is going wrong because i can't print any db title even if i've opened the .nsf file.

My code:

import win32com.client
from win32com.client import Dispatch

notesServer='Mail\wed\new\IT'
notesFile= 'Apps\Mydb.nsf'
notesPass    = 'mypass'

session = Dispatch('Lotus.NotesSession')
session.Initialize(notesPass)
print "----------------"

db = session.getDatabase(notesServer, notesFile)

print db.Open
print db.IsOpen
print db.Title

but i receve:

<bound method CDispatch.Open of <COMObject <unknown>>>
False

Please can u help me?
GL


From greg.ewing at canterbury.ac.nz  Mon Apr 20 04:38:36 2015
From: greg.ewing at canterbury.ac.nz (Gregory Ewing)
Date: Mon, 20 Apr 2015 20:38:36 +1200
Subject: New to Python - block grouping (spaces)
In-Reply-To: <5533eb85$0$12992$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
References: <9fc57fc9-0399-4ff3-882a-d041f02827d8@googlegroups.com>
 <6580b5d5-92f5-4bfa-b1d0-889c69fe82bb@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.374.1429285961.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <mgrcb5$sn2$1@reader1.panix.com> <Y3bYw.302660$ms.24839@fx30.am4>
 <mailman.388.1429323788.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <7tMYw.252071$SO1.39320@fx43.am4>
 <mailman.405.1429456511.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <7413a8e7-b580-4b2f-84bc-dd13da2d36ba@googlegroups.com>
 <5533eb85$0$12992$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <cpjs8dFb8l0U1@mid.individual.net>

Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> Wheels have been round for thousands of years! Why can't we
> try something modern, like triangular wheels?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reuleaux_triangle

http://blog.geomblog.org/2004/04/square-wheels.html

-- 
Greg


From mark at qtrac.eu  Mon Apr 20 04:42:46 2015
From: mark at qtrac.eu (Mark Summerfield)
Date: Mon, 20 Apr 2015 09:42:46 +0100
Subject: [RELEASED] Python 3.5.0a4 is now available
In-Reply-To: <5534B5C0.2030800@hastings.org>
References: <5534B5C0.2030800@hastings.org>
Message-ID: <20150420094246.2ab2459a@dino>

Hi Larry,

On Mon, 20 Apr 2015 01:16:00 -0700
Larry Hastings <larry at hastings.org> wrote:
[snip]
>   * There is now a third type of Windows installer for Python 3.5.  In
>     addition to the conventional installer and the web-based installer,
>     Python 3.5 now has an embeddable installer designed to be run as
>     part of a larger application's installer for apps using or extending
>     Python.

I can't see any mention of this in
https://docs.python.org/dev/whatsnew/3.5.html

Best wishes,
-- 
Mark Summerfield, Qtrac Ltd, www.qtrac.eu
    Python and PyQt/PySide - training and consultancy
        DiffPDF for Windows - PDF comparison tool
            http://www.qtrac.eu/diffpdf.html


From mchirmure at gmail.com  Mon Apr 20 04:53:12 2015
From: mchirmure at gmail.com (Mahesh Chiramure)
Date: Mon, 20 Apr 2015 14:23:12 +0530
Subject: Please Help to build an addon for Anki
Message-ID: <CAN=W7ZwRQi_pTZ65WZ_7b_mnZZgUsiJLTg5z9ZodK5m=skewOg@mail.gmail.com>

Hi

I liked the addon "Picture-flasher" written for anki very much
and I was wondering if the same thing could be done with mp3 and/or
flac files. Means I am looking for an addon that chooses a random mp3
and/or flac file from a directory provided by me (to the addon as we
have to provide in "Picture-flasher") and plays it on successful
reviewing of a certain number of cards (as does the addon
"Picture-flasher"). As a music lover, I feel that this addon can
motivate a whole lot of music lovers out there to pay a visit to Anki
on their PC and review to listen to their favorite mp3 and/or flac
files as a reward.

I am not a programmer yet, please guide.

Hoping for a quick response.

Mahesh Chirmure
-------------- next part --------------
# -*- coding: utf-8 -*-
# Picture-Flasher (a plugin for Anki)
# Authors:
#   Emanuel Rylke, ema-fox at web.de
#   D_Malik, malik6174 at gmail.com
# Version 2
# License: GNU GPL, version 3 or later; http://www.gnu.org/copyleft/gpl.html

"""
A simple plugin that flashes pictures on-screen to reinforce reviews.

Before using:
- Get pictures from someplace. I downloaded pictures off reddit using the script at https://github.com/dpbrown/RedditImageGrab
- Change all lines (in the plugin source) marked with "CHANGEME" according to your preferences.

For more details, see the post at For more details, see the post at http://lesswrong.com/r/discussion/lw/frc/two_anki_plugins_to_reinforce_reviewing/
"""

from anki.hooks import addHook
from aqt import mw
from random import random, choice
from aqt.qt import QSplashScreen, QPixmap, QTimer
from os import listdir

#------ begin configuration ------#
pictureDirectory = "E://Family stuff//22 Feb//Personal//College//A J//" #CHANGEME to the directory where you're storing your pictures. NB: This MUST end with a trailing slash e.g. D://Family stuff//19 Jan//Imgs//Wallys//, D://Family stuff//22 Feb//Imgs//Windows 7//.

flashTime = 3000 #CHANGEME to change how long pictures stay on the screen. The number is time in milliseconds.

#flashPosition = [20, 1050] #CHANGEME if you want the picture to be shown at a specific location. The numbers are x- and y-coordinates.

    #CHANGEME: The next lines are a python dictionary associating deck names with probabilities of pictures being shown.
    #Eg, when using the deck "brainscience", you will get a picture after 30% of cards. When using a deck without a listed name, "other" is used.
    #Change this according to your decks. Decks with shorter, easier cards need lower probabilities.
deckPicsProbabilities = {
    "rocketsurgery"    :   0.3,
    "brainscience"     :   0.5,
    "other"            :   0.1,
    }
#------- end configuration -------#

pics = listdir(pictureDirectory)

def showPics():
    if mw.col.decks.current()['name'] in deckPicsProbabilities:
        picsProbability = deckPicsProbabilities[mw.col.decks.current()['name']]
    else:
        picsProbability = deckPicsProbabilities["other"]
        
    if random() < picsProbability:
        mw.splash = QSplashScreen(QPixmap(pictureDirectory + choice(pics)))
        try:
            mw.splash.move(flashPosition[0], flashPosition[1])
        except NameError:
            pass
        mw.splash.show()
        QTimer.singleShot(flashTime, mw.splash.close)

addHook("showQuestion", showPics)

From ben+python at benfinney.id.au  Mon Apr 20 05:09:53 2015
From: ben+python at benfinney.id.au (Ben Finney)
Date: Mon, 20 Apr 2015 19:09:53 +1000
Subject: Please Help to build an addon for Anki
References: <CAN=W7ZwRQi_pTZ65WZ_7b_mnZZgUsiJLTg5z9ZodK5m=skewOg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <85mw23np26.fsf@benfinney.id.au>

Mahesh Chiramure <mchirmure at gmail.com> writes:

> I liked the addon "Picture-flasher" written for anki very much
> and I was wondering if the same thing could be done with mp3 and/or
> flac files.

Quite probably.

That sounds like a good small project to tackle: you've found a
free-software program, it has an existing feature you like, and you
want to add a similar feature. Good choice!

> I am not a programmer yet, please guide.

You'll want to collaborate with programmers. Maybe even the programmers
responsible for maintaining Anki.

> Hoping for a quick response.

Hopefully this is quick enough.

-- 
 \      ?If you don't fail at least 90 percent of the time, you're not |
  `\                                    aiming high enough.? ?Alan Kay |
_o__)                                                                  |
Ben Finney



From info at egenix.com  Mon Apr 20 05:30:24 2015
From: info at egenix.com (eGenix Team: M.-A. Lemburg)
Date: Mon, 20 Apr 2015 11:30:24 +0200
Subject: ANN: eGenix mxODBC Plone/Zope Database Adapter 2.2.1
Message-ID: <5534C730.6060002@egenix.com>

________________________________________________________________________
ANNOUNCING

                  mxODBC Plone/Zope Database Adapter

                            Version 2.2.1

              for the Plone CMS and Zope server platform

              Available for Plone 4.0-4.3 and Plone 5.0,
                        Zope 2.12 and 2.13, on
        Windows, Linux, Mac OS X, FreeBSD and other platforms

This announcement is also available on our web-site for online reading:
http://www.egenix.com/company/news/eGenix-mxODBC-Zope-DA-2.2.1-GA.html

________________________________________________________________________
INTRODUCTION

The eGenix mxODBC Zope DA allows you to easily connect your Zope or
Plone CMS installation to just about any database backend on the
market today, giving you the reliability of the commercially supported
eGenix product mxODBC and the flexibility of the ODBC standard as
middle-tier architecture.

The mxODBC Zope Database Adapter is highly portable, just like Zope
itself and provides a high performance interface to all your ODBC data
sources, using a single well-supported interface on Windows, Linux,
Mac OS X, FreeBSD and other platforms.

This makes it ideal for deployment in ZEO Clusters and Zope hosting
environments where stability and high performance are a top priority,
establishing an excellent basis and scalable solution for your Plone
CMS.

Product page:

    http://www.egenix.com/products/zope/mxODBCZopeDA/

________________________________________________________________________
NEWS

The 2.2.1 release of our mxODBC Zope/Plone Database Adapter product is
a patch level release of the popular ODBC database interface for Plone
and Zope. It includes these enhancements and fixes:

Feature Updates
---------------

 * Fully compatible with *Zope External Methods* and Zope's built-in
   transaction mechanism: use Connection Objects in Python modules set
   up as Zope External Methods to all the features of the mxODBC Zope
   DA from Python and even tap into the low-level features of mxODBC
   within Zope's transaction mechanism.

 * Full support of *Stored Procedures*: when using Zope External
   Methods, you have full access to SQL stored procedures, which
   allows direct integration with external database APIs.

Driver Compatibility Enhancements
---------------------------------

 * ODBC driver compatibility updated. Upgraded to the latest mxODBC
   3.3.2 release, adding compatibility enhancements for MS SQL Server,
   SAP Sybase ASE and stored procedure output parameters. See the
   mxODBC 3.3.0 and 3.3.2 release announcements for full details.

   http://www.egenix.com/company/news/eGenix-mxODBC-3.3.2-GA.html

Fixes
-----

 * Documented use of allow_hosts in buildout.cfg

The complete list of changes is available on the mxODBC Zope DA
changelog page.

    http://www.egenix.com/products/zope/mxODBCZopeDA/changelog.html

mxODBC Zope DA 2.2.0 was released on 2014-12-11. Please see the mxODBC
Zope DA 2.2.0 release announcement for all the new features we have
added.

http://www.egenix.com/company/news/eGenix-mxODBC-Zope-DA-2.2.0-GA.html

For the full list of features, please see the mxODBC Zope DA feature
list:

    http://www.egenix.com/products/zope/mxODBCZopeDA/#Features

The complete list of changes is available on the mxODBC Zope DA
changelog page.


________________________________________________________________________
UPGRADING

Users are encouraged to upgrade to this latest mxODBC Plone/Zope
Database Adapter release to benefit from the new features and updated
ODBC driver support. We have taken special care not to introduce
backwards incompatible changes, making the upgrade experience as
smooth as possible.

For major and minor upgrade purchases, we will give out 20% discount
coupons going from mxODBC Zope DA 1.x to 2.2 and 50% coupons for
upgrades from mxODBC 2.x to 2.2. After upgrade, use of the original
license from which you upgraded is no longer permitted. Patch level
upgrades (e.g. 2.2.0 to 2.2.1) are always free of charge.

Please contact the eGenix.com Sales Team with your existing license
serials for details for an upgrade discount coupon.

If you want to try the new release before purchase, you can request
30-day evaluation licenses by visiting our web-site or writing to
sales at egenix.com, stating your name (or the name of the company) and
the number of eval licenses that you need.

    http://www.egenix.com/products/python/mxODBCZopeDA/#Evaluation

________________________________________________________________________
DOWNLOADS

Please visit the eGenix mxODBC Zope DA product page for downloads,
instructions on installation and documentation of the packages:

    http://www.egenix.com/company/products/zope/mxODBCZopeDA/

If you want to try the package, please jump straight to the download
instructions:

    http://www.egenix.com/products/zope/mxODBCZopeDA/#Download

Fully functional evaluation licenses for the mxODBC Zope DA are
available free of charge:

    http://www.egenix.com/products/zope/mxODBCZopeDA/#Evaluation

________________________________________________________________________
SUPPORT

Commercial support for this product is available directly from
eGenix.com.

Please see the support section of our website for details:

    http://www.egenix.com/services/support/

________________________________________________________________________
MORE INFORMATION

For more information on eGenix mxODBC Zope DA, licensing and download
instructions, please write to sales at egenix.com.

About eGenix (http://www.egenix.com/):

    eGenix is a software project, consulting and product company
    focusing on expert project services and professional quality
    products for companies, Python users and developers.

Enjoy,
-- 
Marc-Andre Lemburg
eGenix.com

Professional Python Services directly from the Source  (#1, Apr 20 2015)
>>> Python Projects, Coaching and Consulting ...  http://www.egenix.com/
>>> mxODBC Plone/Zope Database Adapter ...       http://zope.egenix.com/
>>> mxODBC, mxDateTime, mxTextTools ...        http://python.egenix.com/
________________________________________________________________________

::::: Try our mxODBC.Connect Python Database Interface for free ! ::::::

   eGenix.com Software, Skills and Services GmbH  Pastor-Loeh-Str.48
    D-40764 Langenfeld, Germany. CEO Dipl.-Math. Marc-Andre Lemburg
           Registered at Amtsgericht Duesseldorf: HRB 46611
               http://www.egenix.com/company/contact/


From edmondo.giovannozzi at gmail.com  Mon Apr 20 06:00:11 2015
From: edmondo.giovannozzi at gmail.com (edmondo.giovannozzi at gmail.com)
Date: Mon, 20 Apr 2015 03:00:11 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: New to Python - block grouping (spaces)
In-Reply-To: <slrnmivjuo.bgs.jon+usenet@frosty.unequivocal.co.uk>
References: <9fc57fc9-0399-4ff3-882a-d041f02827d8@googlegroups.com>
 <6580b5d5-92f5-4bfa-b1d0-889c69fe82bb@googlegroups.com>
 <slrnmivjuo.bgs.jon+usenet@frosty.unequivocal.co.uk>
Message-ID: <1cef707b-2747-4797-9377-e61a0ceea6c2@googlegroups.com>


I work in research and mainly use Fortran and Python.

I haven't had any problem with the python indentation. I like it, I find it simple and easy.

Well, sometimes I may forget to close an IF block with an ENDIF, in Fortran, so used I am on ending a block just decreasing the indentation, not a big problem actually (always spotted by the compiler).


 


From davea at davea.name  Mon Apr 20 06:05:58 2015
From: davea at davea.name (Dave Angel)
Date: Mon, 20 Apr 2015 06:05:58 -0400
Subject: Python and lotus notes
In-Reply-To: <85f7cf14-c6b2-451a-94f2-d798eb38da37@googlegroups.com>
References: <85f7cf14-c6b2-451a-94f2-d798eb38da37@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <5534CF86.2030505@davea.name>

On 04/20/2015 04:29 AM, gianluca.pucci at gmail.com wrote:
> Hi,
>

Hi and welcome.
I don't know Lotus Notes, but i can at least comment on some of your 
code, pointing out at least some problems.

> i am having a problem when i try to access lotus notes with python, think i do all ok but it seems something is going wrong because i can't print any db title even if i've opened the .nsf file.
>
> My code:
>
> import win32com.client
> from win32com.client import Dispatch
>
> notesServer='Mail\wed\new\IT'

You're using backslashes in literal strings when there's nothing escaped 
there.  So you need to either double them or use a raw string.  It's 
also possible that you could use forward slashes, but I can't be sure.

I'd simply use
notesServer = R'Mail\wed\new\IT'


> notesFile= 'Apps\Mydb.nsf'
> notesPass    = 'mypass'
>
> session = Dispatch('Lotus.NotesSession')
> session.Initialize(notesPass)
> print "----------------"
>
> db = session.getDatabase(notesServer, notesFile)
>
> print db.Open

You forgot the parentheses.  So you're not calling the Open function, 
you're just printing it.

> print db.IsOpen
> print db.Title
>
> but i receve:
>
> <bound method CDispatch.Open of <COMObject <unknown>>>
> False
>
> Please can u help me?
> GL
>

There may be other things, but if you fix the three lines, it'll 
probably get further.

-- 
DaveA


From steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info  Mon Apr 20 06:15:04 2015
From: steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: Mon, 20 Apr 2015 20:15:04 +1000
Subject: New to Python - block grouping (spaces)
References: <9fc57fc9-0399-4ff3-882a-d041f02827d8@googlegroups.com>
 <6580b5d5-92f5-4bfa-b1d0-889c69fe82bb@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.374.1429285961.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <mgrcb5$sn2$1@reader1.panix.com> <Y3bYw.302660$ms.24839@fx30.am4>
 <mailman.388.1429323788.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <7tMYw.252071$SO1.39320@fx43.am4>
 <mailman.405.1429456511.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <7413a8e7-b580-4b2f-84bc-dd13da2d36ba@googlegroups.com>
 <5533eb85$0$12992$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <cpjs8dFb8l0U1@mid.individual.net>
Message-ID: <5534d1a9$0$13010$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

On Monday 20 April 2015 18:38, Gregory Ewing wrote:

> Steven D'Aprano wrote:
>> Wheels have been round for thousands of years! Why can't we
>> try something modern, like triangular wheels?
> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reuleaux_triangle
> 
> http://blog.geomblog.org/2004/04/square-wheels.html

I *knew* some smart-arse would mention those :-)

There's always one... it's usually me, but there's always one... 


:-)


-- 
Steve



From steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info  Mon Apr 20 06:30:03 2015
From: steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: Mon, 20 Apr 2015 20:30:03 +1000
Subject: New to Python - block grouping (spaces)
References: <9fc57fc9-0399-4ff3-882a-d041f02827d8@googlegroups.com>
 <6580b5d5-92f5-4bfa-b1d0-889c69fe82bb@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.374.1429285961.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <mgrcb5$sn2$1@reader1.panix.com> <Y3bYw.302660$ms.24839@fx30.am4>
 <mailman.388.1429323788.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <7tMYw.252071$SO1.39320@fx43.am4>
 <mailman.405.1429456511.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <7413a8e7-b580-4b2f-84bc-dd13da2d36ba@googlegroups.com>
 <5533eb85$0$12992$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <16d59891-6e28-4256-870a-903bb75aa953@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.3.1429496666.31470.python-list@python.org>
 <a745d401-190d-4e7b-bc90-85f7e2cd6504@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <5534d52d$0$2915$c3e8da3$76491128@news.astraweb.com>

On Monday 20 April 2015 12:43, Rustom Mody wrote:

> You've a 10-file python project in which you want to replace function 'f'
> by function 'longname'
> How easy is it?

About a thousand times easier than the corresponding situation:

You have ten PDF files in which you want to replace the word "f" with the 
word "longname".


You have identified a weakness in the current Python ecosystem. Our 
automated refactoring tools are currently quite weak and primitive. I'm only 
aware of one, Bicycle Repair Man, which as far as I know is no longer under 
active development. But I think the reason for that is not because Python is 
text based. Java is also text based and it has powerful refactoring tools. 
In Python's case:

- Python projects tend to be smaller and less enterprisey than Java 
projects;

- Python syntax is easier to read (less cruft) and therefore manual 
refactoring is simpler, compared to Java.



-- 
Steve



From rustompmody at gmail.com  Mon Apr 20 07:51:35 2015
From: rustompmody at gmail.com (Rustom Mody)
Date: Mon, 20 Apr 2015 04:51:35 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: New to Python - block grouping (spaces)
In-Reply-To: <5534d52d$0$2915$c3e8da3$76491128@news.astraweb.com>
References: <9fc57fc9-0399-4ff3-882a-d041f02827d8@googlegroups.com>
 <6580b5d5-92f5-4bfa-b1d0-889c69fe82bb@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.374.1429285961.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <mgrcb5$sn2$1@reader1.panix.com> <Y3bYw.302660$ms.24839@fx30.am4>
 <mailman.388.1429323788.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <7tMYw.252071$SO1.39320@fx43.am4>
 <mailman.405.1429456511.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <7413a8e7-b580-4b2f-84bc-dd13da2d36ba@googlegroups.com>
 <5533eb85$0$12992$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <16d59891-6e28-4256-870a-903bb75aa953@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.3.1429496666.31470.python-list@python.org>
 <a745d401-190d-4e7b-bc90-85f7e2cd6504@googlegroups.com>
 <5534d52d$0$2915$c3e8da3$76491128@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <d7f4c401-253a-4826-b018-7e84abb0838c@googlegroups.com>

On Monday, April 20, 2015 at 4:00:16 PM UTC+5:30, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> On Monday 20 April 2015 12:43, Rustom Mody wrote:
> 
> > You've a 10-file python project in which you want to replace function 'f'
> > by function 'longname'
> > How easy is it?
> 
> About a thousand times easier than the corresponding situation:
> 
> You have ten PDF files in which you want to replace the word "f" with the 
> word "longname".
> 

To paraphrase Pauli's "This is not even wrong" 
this is not even a strawman

If you want a realistic example its something like castXML or its more well-known
predecessor gccXML 
https://github.com/CastXML/CastXML/blob/master/doc/manual/castxml.1.rst

[With some hesitation because I dont like XML but anyway in the abstract
thats my point]
> 
> You have identified a weakness in the current Python ecosystem. Our 
> automated refactoring tools are currently quite weak and primitive. I'm only 
> aware of one, Bicycle Repair Man, which as far as I know is no longer under 
> active development.

Well there is rope if thats what you want.


> But I think the reason for that is not because Python is 
> text based. Java is also text based and it has powerful refactoring tools. 
> In Python's case:
> 
> - Python projects tend to be smaller and less enterprisey than Java 
> projects;
> 
> - Python syntax is easier to read (less cruft) and therefore manual 
> refactoring is simpler, compared to Java.

All this is true but a bit far afield from what I am saying:
These examples are about how to keep going with these silos as they are
I am talking of how the silos can be less impenetrable


From subhabrata.banerji at gmail.com  Mon Apr 20 07:59:59 2015
From: subhabrata.banerji at gmail.com (subhabrata.banerji at gmail.com)
Date: Mon, 20 Apr 2015 04:59:59 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Opening Multiple files at one time
Message-ID: <8b392c2f-b813-44f7-8376-a794314d398c@googlegroups.com>

Dear Group,

I am trying to open multiple files at one time. 
I am trying to do it as,

 for item in  [ "one", "two", "three" ]:
       f = open (item + "world.txt", "w")
       f.close()

This is fine. But I was looking if I do not know the number of
text files I would create beforehand, so not trying xrange option
also. 

And if in every run of the code if the name of the text files have
to created on its own. 

Is there a solution for this? 

If anybody may please suggest. 

Regards,
Subhabrata Banerjee. 


From bc at freeuk.com  Mon Apr 20 08:05:47 2015
From: bc at freeuk.com (BartC)
Date: Mon, 20 Apr 2015 13:05:47 +0100
Subject: New to Python - block grouping (spaces)
In-Reply-To: <5534d52d$0$2915$c3e8da3$76491128@news.astraweb.com>
References: <9fc57fc9-0399-4ff3-882a-d041f02827d8@googlegroups.com>
 <6580b5d5-92f5-4bfa-b1d0-889c69fe82bb@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.374.1429285961.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <mgrcb5$sn2$1@reader1.panix.com> <Y3bYw.302660$ms.24839@fx30.am4>
 <mailman.388.1429323788.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <7tMYw.252071$SO1.39320@fx43.am4>
 <mailman.405.1429456511.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <7413a8e7-b580-4b2f-84bc-dd13da2d36ba@googlegroups.com>
 <5533eb85$0$12992$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <16d59891-6e28-4256-870a-903bb75aa953@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.3.1429496666.31470.python-list@python.org>
 <a745d401-190d-4e7b-bc90-85f7e2cd6504@googlegroups.com>
 <5534d52d$0$2915$c3e8da3$76491128@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <wY5Zw.267025$9%6.140183@fx01.am4>

On 20/04/2015 11:30, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> On Monday 20 April 2015 12:43, Rustom Mody wrote:
>
>> You've a 10-file python project in which you want to replace function 'f'
>> by function 'longname'
>> How easy is it?
>
> About a thousand times easier than the corresponding situation:
>
> You have ten PDF files in which you want to replace the word "f" with the
> word "longname".

Why would the PDF example be particularly difficult? (I assume they can 
simply be processed individually.)

Some tool would be used to edit the textual contents of the files, and, 
in the absence of any more specific instructions (there being embedded 
code examples for instance, or some literal uses of "f", or it's verse 
that still needs to rhyme), then you just replace each whole-word "f" 
with "longname".

(It might well be 1000 times harder if the PDFs contained full-featured 
Postscript where all the "f"s are generated at runtime, or their glyphs 
are formed with highly elaborate graphics.)

> You have identified a weakness in the current Python ecosystem. Our
> automated refactoring tools are currently quite weak and primitive.

I'm sure everyone is already aware of the difficulties with doing this 
with Python code, but apart from comments and strings, there are 
examples such as this:

if cond:
	def f():
		print ("This is F")
else:
	f=3.142
x=f

In this last line, it's not possible to tell whether f refers to the 
function, or the number. (I assume the requirement is to change calls to 
f(), or any references to the name, to longname(), as well as the defs.)

Even harder is:

  eval(s)

where the string s may also contain references to f.

There is also code that may be commented out temporarily that you want 
to change, and other comments that you don't want to change. Etc.

With some languages the task is simpler, as what is or isn't a valid 
reference to "f" can be determined by examining the source code. 
(Although C gives Python a run for its money by being able to use its 
macro system to make certain code impossible to analyse from the static 
sources.)

-- 
Bartc


From gianluca.pucci at gmail.com  Mon Apr 20 08:38:00 2015
From: gianluca.pucci at gmail.com (gianluca.pucci at gmail.com)
Date: Mon, 20 Apr 2015 05:38:00 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Python and lotus notes
In-Reply-To: <85f7cf14-c6b2-451a-94f2-d798eb38da37@googlegroups.com>
References: <85f7cf14-c6b2-451a-94f2-d798eb38da37@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <006e1c0e-3d62-4c5d-ba37-80ec5a4b0100@googlegroups.com>

Il giorno luned? 20 aprile 2015 10:29:42 UTC+2, gianluc... at gmail.com ha scritto:
> Hi,
> 
> i am having a problem when i try to access lotus notes with python, think i do all ok but it seems something is going wrong because i can't print any db title even if i've opened the .nsf file.
> 
> My code:
> 
> import win32com.client
> from win32com.client import Dispatch
> 
> notesServer='Mail\wed\new\IT'
> notesFile= 'Apps\Mydb.nsf'
> notesPass    = 'mypass'
> 
> session = Dispatch('Lotus.NotesSession')
> session.Initialize(notesPass)
> print "----------------"
> 
> db = session.getDatabase(notesServer, notesFile)
> 
> print db.Open
> print db.IsOpen
> print db.Title
> 
> but i receve:
> 
> <bound method CDispatch.Open of <COMObject <unknown>>>
> False
> 
> Please can u help me?
> GL

hi!
ive tried but i get this error:

File "<COMObject GetDatabase>", line 2, in Open
com_error: (-2147352567, 'Eccezione.', (0, 'NotesDatabase', 'Database open failed (Mail\wed/new/IT!!Apps\Mydb.nsf')', None, 0, -2147217461), None)


From skip.montanaro at gmail.com  Mon Apr 20 10:17:16 2015
From: skip.montanaro at gmail.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Mon, 20 Apr 2015 09:17:16 -0500
Subject: do you guys help newbies??
In-Reply-To: <mh1ml8$avq$1@ger.gmane.org>
References: <F152taJVVumMKKECBlG0000212d@hotmail.com>
 <mailman.1038393638.14951.python-list@python.org>
 <105618dd-2ad3-44d2-a0b6-e49fe0dd9ccc@googlegroups.com>
 <55345C33.4040001@davea.name> <mh1ml8$avq$1@ger.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <CANc-5Ux1WbgvZ6aG-Br1Chq9Q2eVEc6Lt439-gCSKKwsGKtHig@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, Apr 19, 2015 at 9:01 PM, Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk>
wrote:

> Rather sad to see those three initials in that post as well [image: ?]
>

We miss John at TradeLink.

Skip
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/attachments/20150420/5097ec48/attachment.html>
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: emoji_u1f622.png
Type: image/png
Size: 951 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/attachments/20150420/5097ec48/attachment.png>

From prasadchandra18 at gmail.com  Mon Apr 20 11:15:46 2015
From: prasadchandra18 at gmail.com (Chandra Prashad mishra)
Date: Mon, 20 Apr 2015 08:15:46 -0700
Subject: No subject
Message-ID: <CABgrTKSSsteRFGAbDyJAks2bkiSw04AOpaKU+OOBEU8WojJnSw@mail.gmail.com>

sir how can i improve my basic knowledge about programming.....can u give
me some hint...just give me way
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/attachments/20150420/bbcc0408/attachment.html>

From David.Aldrich at EMEA.NEC.COM  Mon Apr 20 11:31:17 2015
From: David.Aldrich at EMEA.NEC.COM (David Aldrich)
Date: Mon, 20 Apr 2015 15:31:17 +0000
Subject: Problem running Python 2.7 on Ubuntu 10.04
Message-ID: <41302A7145AC054FA7A96CFD03835A0A0B963C72@EX10MBX02.EU.NEC.COM>

Hi

I wonder if someone could help me with this problem please?

On an Ubuntu 10.04 platform, I want to run the latest version of Meld, which is a Python program.

Ubuntu 10.04 runs Python 2.6 as standard.  Meld requires Python 2.7.  So I have installed Python 2.7 under /usr/local/bin and Python 2.7 runs ok there.

But when I try to run Meld I see:

-> /usr/local/bin/python2.7 ~/meld/bin/meld
Cannot import: GTK+
No module named gi

So I need to install the gtk package and do so in such a way that it is visible to /usr/local/bin/python2.7.

How would I do that please?

Best regards

David



Best regards

David

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/attachments/20150420/cfa484fb/attachment.html>

From emile at fenx.com  Mon Apr 20 13:06:35 2015
From: emile at fenx.com (Emile van Sebille)
Date: Mon, 20 Apr 2015 10:06:35 -0700
Subject: Problem running Python 2.7 on Ubuntu 10.04
In-Reply-To: <41302A7145AC054FA7A96CFD03835A0A0B963C72@EX10MBX02.EU.NEC.COM>
References: <41302A7145AC054FA7A96CFD03835A0A0B963C72@EX10MBX02.EU.NEC.COM>
Message-ID: <mh3bn5$20q$1@ger.gmane.org>

On 4/20/2015 8:31 AM, David Aldrich wrote:

 > Cannot import: GTK+
 >
 > No module named gi
 >
 > So I need to install the gtk package and do so in such a way that it
 > is visible to /usr/local/bin/python2.7.
 >
 > How would I do that please?

This should get you going:

   See http://faq.pygtk.org/index.py?req=show&file=faq01.010.htp

Emile



From DaveFarrance at OMiTTHiSyahooANDTHiS.co.uk  Mon Apr 20 13:25:07 2015
From: DaveFarrance at OMiTTHiSyahooANDTHiS.co.uk (Dave Farrance)
Date: Mon, 20 Apr 2015 18:25:07 +0100
Subject: Problem running Python 2.7 on Ubuntu 10.04
References: <mailman.21.1429546960.31470.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <ntcajadn2lgd2olc3i00fap71gre62mb0e@4ax.com>

David Aldrich <David.Aldrich at EMEA.NEC.COM> wrote:

>Hi
>
>I wonder if someone could help me with this problem please?
>
>On an Ubuntu 10.04 platform, I want to run the latest version of Meld, which is a Python program.
>
>Ubuntu 10.04 runs Python 2.6 as standard.  Meld requires Python 2.7.  So I have installed Python 2.7 under /usr/local/bin and Python 2.7 runs ok there.
>
>But when I try to run Meld I see:
>
>-> /usr/local/bin/python2.7 ~/meld/bin/meld
>Cannot import: GTK+
>No module named gi

My understanding is that "gi" is GTk3 and I suspect that you're not
going to successfully install that on Ubuntu 10 which is a GTk2 distro.


From felix.dietrich at sperrhaken.name  Mon Apr 20 14:14:00 2015
From: felix.dietrich at sperrhaken.name (Felix Dietrich)
Date: Mon, 20 Apr 2015 20:14:00 +0200
Subject: Opening Multiple files at one time
In-Reply-To: <8b392c2f-b813-44f7-8376-a794314d398c@googlegroups.com>
 (subhabrata banerji's message of "Mon, 20 Apr 2015 04:59:59 -0700 (PDT)")
References: <8b392c2f-b813-44f7-8376-a794314d398c@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <87d22yllav.fsf@sperrhaken.name>

subhabrata.banerji at gmail.com writes:

> Dear Group,
>
> I am trying to open multiple files at one time. 
> I am trying to do it as,
>
>  for item in  [ "one", "two", "three" ]:
>        f = open (item + "world.txt", "w")
>        f.close()
>
> This is fine. But I was looking if I do not know the number of
> text files I would create beforehand, so not trying xrange option
> also.
>
> And if in every run of the code if the name of the text files have
> to created on its own.
>
> Is there a solution for this? 

I have trouble comprehending your question so I am going to guess a bit
? feel free to clarify your problem.

If you want to repeat a set of commands not for a certain number of
items but based on a condition take a look at the *while-loop*.  The
basic loop construct looks like this:

  while condition:
    do_stuff()

Now the problem: *While* your program still has stuff to do (you have to
come up with an appropiate condition) you want to write output to files.
The filenames will be a concatenation of a number counting the already
created files and a predifined string (say "world.txt").

(Is this a correct description of your problem? Again: feel free to
clarify.)

The following lines might get you closer to a solution:


  j = 1
  continue_to_open_files = True
  while continue_to_open_files:
    with open("%03iworld" % j, "w") as f:
      f.write("some content")
    if some_condition:
      continue_to_open_files = False
    j += 1


Alternativly /itertools.count/ allows using of the for-loop:

  import itertools
  for j in itertools.count(1):
    with open("%03iworld" % j, "w") as f:
      f.write("some content")
    if some_condition:
      break


Translating numbers represented by digits into words is another problem.

--
Felix Dietrich


From sohcahtoa82 at gmail.com  Mon Apr 20 16:04:45 2015
From: sohcahtoa82 at gmail.com (sohcahtoa82 at gmail.com)
Date: Mon, 20 Apr 2015 13:04:45 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Opening Multiple files at one time
In-Reply-To: <8b392c2f-b813-44f7-8376-a794314d398c@googlegroups.com>
References: <8b392c2f-b813-44f7-8376-a794314d398c@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <0974611b-0f16-4885-9a77-8e61c2c455cd@googlegroups.com>

On Monday, April 20, 2015 at 5:00:15 AM UTC-7, subhabrat... at gmail.com wrote:
> Dear Group,
> 
> I am trying to open multiple files at one time. 
> I am trying to do it as,
> 
>  for item in  [ "one", "two", "three" ]:
>        f = open (item + "world.txt", "w")
>        f.close()
> 
> This is fine. But I was looking if I do not know the number of
> text files I would create beforehand, so not trying xrange option
> also. 
> 
> And if in every run of the code if the name of the text files have
> to created on its own. 
> 
> Is there a solution for this? 
> 
> If anybody may please suggest. 
> 
> Regards,
> Subhabrata Banerjee.

Create a list and append each file object to the list.  Something like:

fileList = []
for item in ['one', 'two', 'three']:
    fileList.append(open(item + 'world.txt', 'w')

fileList will then have a list of open file objects.  Of course, later you'll have to close them all.  That would be as easy as:

for f in fileList:
    f.close()


From davea at davea.name  Mon Apr 20 18:49:36 2015
From: davea at davea.name (Dave Angel)
Date: Mon, 20 Apr 2015 18:49:36 -0400
Subject: Opening Multiple files at one time
In-Reply-To: <8b392c2f-b813-44f7-8376-a794314d398c@googlegroups.com>
References: <8b392c2f-b813-44f7-8376-a794314d398c@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <55358280.1080209@davea.name>

On 04/20/2015 07:59 AM, subhabrata.banerji at gmail.com wrote:
> Dear Group,
>
> I am trying to open multiple files at one time.
> I am trying to do it as,
>
>   for item in  [ "one", "two", "three" ]:
>         f = open (item + "world.txt", "w")
>         f.close()
>
> This is fine.

But it does not open multiple files at one time.  Perhaps you'd better 
explain better what you mean by "at one time."

> But I was looking if I do not know the number of
> text files I would create beforehand,

So instead of using a literal list [ "one", "two... ]
you construct one, or read it in from disk, or use sys.argv.  What's the 
difficulty?  Nothing in the code fragment you show cares how long the 
list is.


  so not trying xrange option
> also.

No idea what "the xrange option" means.

>
> And if in every run of the code if the name of the text files have
> to created on its own.

So figure out what you're going to use for those names, and write the 
code to generate them.

>
> Is there a solution for this?

For what?


-- 
DaveA


From mr.smittye at gmail.com  Mon Apr 20 21:04:16 2015
From: mr.smittye at gmail.com (IronManMark20)
Date: Mon, 20 Apr 2015 18:04:16 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Hooked, a pure Python Windows Hotkey module
Message-ID: <299ae6c3-4a43-4ce1-b24c-a4e8aec96b55@googlegroups.com>

Announcing Hooked

Hooked is a pure python hotkey module. There are some great options such as pyHook, and pyhk,  but I wanted a pure Python version so all Python implementations could use hotkeys.


Now, an example!
def foo():
    print "I was triggered by Ctrl+B!"
from hooked import hook 
hk=hook() #make an instance of hooked
hk.Hotkey(["LCtrl","B"],foo) #the left ctrl+b causes foo to trigger
hk.listen() #start listening for the hotkey

I just made this yesterday, so more updates over the next few days.
Features:
* It should support all keyboard keys
* It should allow for an unlimited number of hotkeys to be registered.
* It is pure Python, which means you can go and edit things easily.
* It supports all versions of Windows since 2000.
* It _only_ uses the standard library. No need for pywin32.

Hooked is licensed under the GPL v2. 

The source is here:https://github.com/IronManMark20/hooked

Thoughts? Suggestions? Requests? etc?


From no.email at nospam.invalid  Mon Apr 20 21:13:07 2015
From: no.email at nospam.invalid (Paul Rubin)
Date: Mon, 20 Apr 2015 18:13:07 -0700
Subject: docstringargs: Python module for setting up argparse
References: <mailman.10.1429510817.31470.python-list@python.org>
 <5534a94d$0$12985$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <mailman.11.1429515960.31470.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <87wq165lng.fsf@jester.gateway.sonic.net>

Chris Angelico <rosuav at gmail.com> writes:
> @cmdline
> def adduser(user: "Name of user to add", password: "Password for the
> new user"=""):
>     """Add a new user"""

Does this conflict with type signature proposals using that annotation
mechanism?  I guess that means PEP 0484 but I've lost track of what's
where.


From rosuav at gmail.com  Mon Apr 20 21:19:27 2015
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Tue, 21 Apr 2015 11:19:27 +1000
Subject: docstringargs: Python module for setting up argparse
In-Reply-To: <87wq165lng.fsf@jester.gateway.sonic.net>
References: <mailman.10.1429510817.31470.python-list@python.org>
 <5534a94d$0$12985$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <mailman.11.1429515960.31470.python-list@python.org>
 <87wq165lng.fsf@jester.gateway.sonic.net>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmrgb7bWstK113n=Cu0B_HkS96tpy3Bq0oU0yBg4c9r4Jg@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Apr 21, 2015 at 11:13 AM, Paul Rubin <no.email at nospam.invalid> wrote:
> Chris Angelico <rosuav at gmail.com> writes:
>> @cmdline
>> def adduser(user: "Name of user to add", password: "Password for the
>> new user"=""):
>>     """Add a new user"""
>
> Does this conflict with type signature proposals using that annotation
> mechanism?  I guess that means PEP 0484 but I've lost track of what's
> where.

In the sense that you can't use both together, yes. But docstringargs
follows the rule of "if you're going to use annotations, also use a
decorator"; and the decorator removes all the annotations it uses. In
any case, functions designed to be given arguments via docstringargs
will always be getting strings or True/False (and the latter only if
you explicitly say so), so annotating parameter types won't help much
(and an annotated return value is ignored by docstringargs and can be
permitted through).

ChrisA


From p_s_d_a_s_i_l_v_a_ns at netcabo.pt  Mon Apr 20 22:14:09 2015
From: p_s_d_a_s_i_l_v_a_ns at netcabo.pt (Paulo da Silva)
Date: Tue, 21 Apr 2015 03:14:09 +0100
Subject: multiprocessing module and matplotlib.pyplot/PdfPages
Message-ID: <mh4bph$t8e$1@speranza.aioe.org>

I have program that generates about 100 relatively complex graphics and
writes then to a pdf book.
It takes a while!
Is there any possibility of using multiprocessing to build the graphics
and then use several calls to savefig(), i.e. some kind of graphic's
objects?

Thanks for any help/comments.


From rustompmody at gmail.com  Mon Apr 20 22:18:39 2015
From: rustompmody at gmail.com (Rustom Mody)
Date: Mon, 20 Apr 2015 19:18:39 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: New to Python - block grouping (spaces)
In-Reply-To: <mailman.7.1429501451.31470.python-list@python.org>
References: <9fc57fc9-0399-4ff3-882a-d041f02827d8@googlegroups.com>
 <6580b5d5-92f5-4bfa-b1d0-889c69fe82bb@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.374.1429285961.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <mgrcb5$sn2$1@reader1.panix.com> <Y3bYw.302660$ms.24839@fx30.am4>
 <mailman.388.1429323788.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <7tMYw.252071$SO1.39320@fx43.am4>
 <mailman.405.1429456511.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <7413a8e7-b580-4b2f-84bc-dd13da2d36ba@googlegroups.com>
 <5533eb85$0$12992$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <16d59891-6e28-4256-870a-903bb75aa953@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.3.1429496666.31470.python-list@python.org>
 <a745d401-190d-4e7b-bc90-85f7e2cd6504@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.5.1429499040.31470.python-list@python.org>
 <17ed0132-89d5-4b45-81b5-b61328a21198@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.7.1429501451.31470.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <bee34853-fb27-40ee-b64b-bfa33bc0ebe1@googlegroups.com>

On Monday, April 20, 2015 at 9:14:23 AM UTC+5:30, Chris Angelico wrote:
> I definitely don't see how a non-text source code format would improve
> on it. Feel like elaborating?

You are putting emphasis on the 'non'. This puts you into an oscillatory system
between tautology and contradiction:
How can something which is NOT be something? -- contradiction
It is something else -- tautology

If you dont put the emphasis on the not but on 'structured text' it may be more
meaningful; eg html

html is not 'not-text' -- you can edit it in a text editor alright.
However if you edit it in a html-editor -- mozilla composer, seamonkey, or any 
of zillion web versions -- you get (at least) two views -- text vs structured

In the text (ironically also called html) view it behaves like a half-assed
text-editor
In the structured view it renders the html structure (somewhat)
So a table does not show as <table></table> <tr><td> etc but actually as cells.
This prevents trivial counting/off-by-one errors.
After the gross-layout is taken care of you can switch to text mode and add fancy html attributes if needed.

Likewise having ready access to the AST of a program would be neat
So for example when I used to do a lot of lisp, my editor was set up so that
- cursor arrows behaved like normal cursor arrows
- keypad arrows moved up/down/along S-exp ie they were tree movements


From no.email at nospam.invalid  Mon Apr 20 23:44:53 2015
From: no.email at nospam.invalid (Paul Rubin)
Date: Mon, 20 Apr 2015 20:44:53 -0700
Subject: docstringargs: Python module for setting up argparse
References: <mailman.10.1429510817.31470.python-list@python.org>
 <5534a94d$0$12985$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <mailman.11.1429515960.31470.python-list@python.org>
 <87wq165lng.fsf@jester.gateway.sonic.net>
 <mailman.24.1429579171.31470.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <87sibu5emi.fsf@jester.gateway.sonic.net>

Chris Angelico <rosuav at gmail.com> writes:
>> Does this conflict with type signature proposals
> In the sense that you can't use both together, yes. But docstringargs
> follows the rule of "if you're going to use annotations, also use a
> decorator"; and the decorator removes all the annotations it uses.

This makes me think the annotation system is too limited.  There should
be a way to use multiple kinds of annotation at the same time, by using
multiple decorators.  Maybe there could be a convention where the
annotation is a dictionary whose entries correspond to decorators and
are consumed by those decorators.


From rosuav at gmail.com  Tue Apr 21 00:06:46 2015
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Tue, 21 Apr 2015 14:06:46 +1000
Subject: docstringargs: Python module for setting up argparse
In-Reply-To: <87sibu5emi.fsf@jester.gateway.sonic.net>
References: <mailman.10.1429510817.31470.python-list@python.org>
 <5534a94d$0$12985$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <mailman.11.1429515960.31470.python-list@python.org>
 <87wq165lng.fsf@jester.gateway.sonic.net>
 <mailman.24.1429579171.31470.python-list@python.org>
 <87sibu5emi.fsf@jester.gateway.sonic.net>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmphHTTrJ=y7x7sDpD-zjGjRVbg-EQ8JLjK=HSrRggHx_Q@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Apr 21, 2015 at 1:44 PM, Paul Rubin <no.email at nospam.invalid> wrote:
> Chris Angelico <rosuav at gmail.com> writes:
>>> Does this conflict with type signature proposals
>> In the sense that you can't use both together, yes. But docstringargs
>> follows the rule of "if you're going to use annotations, also use a
>> decorator"; and the decorator removes all the annotations it uses.
>
> This makes me think the annotation system is too limited.  There should
> be a way to use multiple kinds of annotation at the same time, by using
> multiple decorators.  Maybe there could be a convention where the
> annotation is a dictionary whose entries correspond to decorators and
> are consumed by those decorators.

This has been hashed out in great detail on this and other lists in
the past. The biggest response is YAGNI. The cognitive and syntactic
burden of supporting multiple annotations is ridiculous compared to
the minuscule benefit. Compare:

# Exclusive annotations
@cmdline
def adduser(
        user: "Name of user to add",
        password: "Password for the new user"=""):
    """Add a new user"""

# Shared annotations
import typing
@cmdline
def adduser(
        user: {cmdline: "Name of user to add", typing: str},
        password: {cmdline: "Password for the new user", typing: str}=""):
    """Add a new user"""

This example actually isn't too bad... because the arguments coming
from the command line will always be strings, which is exactly what
makes the annotations useless. But it's worth noting that *every*
annotation would need this complex adornment system, repeating some
key for every single parameter, just for the unusual case where you
actually want to put two annotations onto something.

It's the job of a programming language to limit things. Here's
something I wrote up a while ago about a similar design question - I'd
built something that required one-line-per-action in a given file, and
my boss asked me to make it more flexible and able to handle
multi-line actions. (Point of interest: He overruled me, and since he
was paying the bills, I had to make it flexible... but from then until
I left the company some years later, there were exactly ZERO uses of
that system that had multi-line actions. Zero.) The same concepts
apply to game design, user interface design, API design, and pretty
much everything.

http://rosuav.blogspot.com/2011/09/we-dont-need-all-that-design-space.html

ChrisA


From no.email at nospam.invalid  Tue Apr 21 00:33:28 2015
From: no.email at nospam.invalid (Paul Rubin)
Date: Mon, 20 Apr 2015 21:33:28 -0700
Subject: docstringargs: Python module for setting up argparse
References: <mailman.10.1429510817.31470.python-list@python.org>
 <5534a94d$0$12985$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <mailman.11.1429515960.31470.python-list@python.org>
 <87wq165lng.fsf@jester.gateway.sonic.net>
 <mailman.24.1429579171.31470.python-list@python.org>
 <87sibu5emi.fsf@jester.gateway.sonic.net>
 <mailman.25.1429589208.31470.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <87oami5cdj.fsf@jester.gateway.sonic.net>

Chris Angelico <rosuav at gmail.com> writes:
> @cmdline
> def adduser(
>         user: {cmdline: "Name of user to add", typing: str},
>         password: {cmdline: "Password for the new user", typing: str}=""):
>     """Add a new user"""

In the case of just one decorator, the dictionary could be omitted.  The
decorator function itself could have an annotation flagging it as a
consumer of annotations, so that would make it easy to check if there
was more than one.  In your example above, you'd also want a @typing
decorator.  

In those particular cases, the decorators don't even need the annotation
feature:

@cmdline(name="Name of user to add", password="Password for the new user")
@typing(name=str, password=str)
def adduser(user, password):
    """Add a new user"""
    ...


From rosuav at gmail.com  Tue Apr 21 00:39:51 2015
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Tue, 21 Apr 2015 14:39:51 +1000
Subject: docstringargs: Python module for setting up argparse
In-Reply-To: <87oami5cdj.fsf@jester.gateway.sonic.net>
References: <mailman.10.1429510817.31470.python-list@python.org>
 <5534a94d$0$12985$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <mailman.11.1429515960.31470.python-list@python.org>
 <87wq165lng.fsf@jester.gateway.sonic.net>
 <mailman.24.1429579171.31470.python-list@python.org>
 <87sibu5emi.fsf@jester.gateway.sonic.net>
 <mailman.25.1429589208.31470.python-list@python.org>
 <87oami5cdj.fsf@jester.gateway.sonic.net>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmrNmDBBta++EdFikNa2O5pmjA6_69VGAc7ZpTrOpxyYog@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Apr 21, 2015 at 2:33 PM, Paul Rubin <no.email at nospam.invalid> wrote:
> Chris Angelico <rosuav at gmail.com> writes:
>> @cmdline
>> def adduser(
>>         user: {cmdline: "Name of user to add", typing: str},
>>         password: {cmdline: "Password for the new user", typing: str}=""):
>>     """Add a new user"""
>
> In the case of just one decorator, the dictionary could be omitted.  The
> decorator function itself could have an annotation flagging it as a
> consumer of annotations, so that would make it easy to check if there
> was more than one.  In your example above, you'd also want a @typing
> decorator.

PEP 484 says that type hints don't need a decorator, but if it were
anything else, then yes, it'd need a second decorator. But what if one
of the annotation usages wants to be a dictionary? How can you elide
the outer dictionary and still recognize what's going on?

> In those particular cases, the decorators don't even need the annotation
> feature:
>
> @cmdline(name="Name of user to add", password="Password for the new user")
> @typing(name=str, password=str)
> def adduser(user, password):
>     """Add a new user"""
>     ...

And that's a completely different feature. It still has the advantage
that everything is right there in the function signature... but look
how easy it is to introduce bugs: you're inconsistent about whether
the first parameter is called "name" or "user". This is exactly why
annotations exist. Like decorators themselves, they reduce repetition
and thus bugs.

ChrisA


From no.email at nospam.invalid  Tue Apr 21 01:08:09 2015
From: no.email at nospam.invalid (Paul Rubin)
Date: Mon, 20 Apr 2015 22:08:09 -0700
Subject: docstringargs: Python module for setting up argparse
References: <mailman.10.1429510817.31470.python-list@python.org>
 <5534a94d$0$12985$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <mailman.11.1429515960.31470.python-list@python.org>
 <87wq165lng.fsf@jester.gateway.sonic.net>
 <mailman.24.1429579171.31470.python-list@python.org>
 <87sibu5emi.fsf@jester.gateway.sonic.net>
 <mailman.25.1429589208.31470.python-list@python.org>
 <87oami5cdj.fsf@jester.gateway.sonic.net>
 <mailman.26.1429591195.31470.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <87k2x65arq.fsf@jester.gateway.sonic.net>

Chris Angelico <rosuav at gmail.com> writes:
> PEP 484 says that type hints don't need a decorator, but if it were
> anything else, then yes, it'd need a second decorator. But what if one
> of the annotation usages wants to be a dictionary? How can you elide
> the outer dictionary and still recognize what's going on?

If there's only one annotation it can take a dictionary without an outer
one.  If there's more than one annotation then they would have to be
labelled: I don't see what difference it makes if one of the annotation
values is a dictionary.

> that everything is right there in the function signature... but look
> how easy it is to introduce bugs: you're inconsistent about whether
> the first parameter is called "name" or "user".

Heh, nice catch, it's late here.  But, that would have been caught
immediately by the type checker examining the type annotation.

> This is exactly why annotations exist. Like decorators themselves,
> they reduce repetition and thus bugs.

Type annotations add a small amount of repetition but they do reduce
bugs.  That's the reason for having them.



From no.email at nospam.invalid  Tue Apr 21 01:16:10 2015
From: no.email at nospam.invalid (Paul Rubin)
Date: Mon, 20 Apr 2015 22:16:10 -0700
Subject: docstringargs: Python module for setting up argparse
References: <mailman.10.1429510817.31470.python-list@python.org>
 <5534a94d$0$12985$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <mailman.11.1429515960.31470.python-list@python.org>
 <87wq165lng.fsf@jester.gateway.sonic.net>
 <mailman.24.1429579171.31470.python-list@python.org>
 <87sibu5emi.fsf@jester.gateway.sonic.net>
 <mailman.25.1429589208.31470.python-list@python.org>
 <87oami5cdj.fsf@jester.gateway.sonic.net>
 <mailman.26.1429591195.31470.python-list@python.org>
 <87k2x65arq.fsf@jester.gateway.sonic.net>
Message-ID: <87fv7u5aed.fsf@jester.gateway.sonic.net>

Paul Rubin <no.email at nospam.invalid> writes:
> If there's only one annotation it can take a dictionary without an outer
> one.  If there's more than one annotation 

Hmm, I see what you might be getting at: the decorators run
innermost-first so only the outer ones can tell if there are multiple
ones without some pretty bad extra hair.  There's probably a way around
this.  I'll think about it some more some other time.


From rosuav at gmail.com  Tue Apr 21 01:18:37 2015
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Tue, 21 Apr 2015 15:18:37 +1000
Subject: docstringargs: Python module for setting up argparse
In-Reply-To: <87k2x65arq.fsf@jester.gateway.sonic.net>
References: <mailman.10.1429510817.31470.python-list@python.org>
 <5534a94d$0$12985$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <mailman.11.1429515960.31470.python-list@python.org>
 <87wq165lng.fsf@jester.gateway.sonic.net>
 <mailman.24.1429579171.31470.python-list@python.org>
 <87sibu5emi.fsf@jester.gateway.sonic.net>
 <mailman.25.1429589208.31470.python-list@python.org>
 <87oami5cdj.fsf@jester.gateway.sonic.net>
 <mailman.26.1429591195.31470.python-list@python.org>
 <87k2x65arq.fsf@jester.gateway.sonic.net>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmpqwJSPhQ5qZqcQynn2BF9wf_sNEaR=z0Kj6H8vRLweXA@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Apr 21, 2015 at 3:08 PM, Paul Rubin <no.email at nospam.invalid> wrote:
> Chris Angelico <rosuav at gmail.com> writes:
>> PEP 484 says that type hints don't need a decorator, but if it were
>> anything else, then yes, it'd need a second decorator. But what if one
>> of the annotation usages wants to be a dictionary? How can you elide
>> the outer dictionary and still recognize what's going on?
>
> If there's only one annotation it can take a dictionary without an outer
> one.  If there's more than one annotation then they would have to be
> labelled: I don't see what difference it makes if one of the annotation
> values is a dictionary.

Other decorators have to be able to recognize whether there's an outer
dictionary or not. That means they have to dig into the annotating
object to inquire as to whether or not their thing is there.

>> that everything is right there in the function signature... but look
>> how easy it is to introduce bugs: you're inconsistent about whether
>> the first parameter is called "name" or "user".
>
> Heh, nice catch, it's late here.  But, that would have been caught
> immediately by the type checker examining the type annotation.

Assuming you run it immediately. But it's still a problem to have that
duplication - just as it can be if you put this kind of info into a
docstring, or anything else. The less duplication, the less chance of
bugs.

>> This is exactly why annotations exist. Like decorators themselves,
>> they reduce repetition and thus bugs.
>
> Type annotations add a small amount of repetition but they do reduce
> bugs.  That's the reason for having them.

Type hints help to reduce bugs, that's why they exist. Annotations are
one way of embedding type hints (and other info) into source code. The
advantage of annotations over docstring or decorator type hints is the
reduction of repetition.

ChrisA


From flebber.crue at gmail.com  Tue Apr 21 01:43:55 2015
From: flebber.crue at gmail.com (Sayth)
Date: Mon, 20 Apr 2015 22:43:55 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: a python song -  learning
Message-ID: <64a29796-13d8-4617-b612-4299de891a59@googlegroups.com>

If you were asked to right a song to teach new python programmers the core concepts of python to new pythonistas could you? 

What would be your song? 

song and mnemonics are a key to learning and memorizing but very rarely used,  at least in my experience with programming. 

Yet everyone knows the knee bone is connected to the. .. !

Hit me with your best shot! 

Sayth


From rosuav at gmail.com  Tue Apr 21 01:50:05 2015
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Tue, 21 Apr 2015 15:50:05 +1000
Subject: a python song - learning
In-Reply-To: <64a29796-13d8-4617-b612-4299de891a59@googlegroups.com>
References: <64a29796-13d8-4617-b612-4299de891a59@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmokQQHB5+CizQgMt9YY2TADjejcGASnOcnu5QrBuEmKWA@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Apr 21, 2015 at 3:43 PM, Sayth <flebber.crue at gmail.com> wrote:
> If you were asked to right a song to teach new python programmers the core concepts of python to new pythonistas could you?
>
> What would be your song?
>
> song and mnemonics are a key to learning and memorizing but very rarely used,  at least in my experience with programming.
>
> Yet everyone knows the knee bone is connected to the. .. !
>
> Hit me with your best shot!

Hit you? Sounds like this...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=insM7oUYNOE

ChrisA


From no.email at nospam.invalid  Tue Apr 21 01:54:39 2015
From: no.email at nospam.invalid (Paul Rubin)
Date: Mon, 20 Apr 2015 22:54:39 -0700
Subject: docstringargs: Python module for setting up argparse
References: <mailman.10.1429510817.31470.python-list@python.org>
 <5534a94d$0$12985$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <mailman.11.1429515960.31470.python-list@python.org>
 <87wq165lng.fsf@jester.gateway.sonic.net>
 <mailman.24.1429579171.31470.python-list@python.org>
 <87sibu5emi.fsf@jester.gateway.sonic.net>
 <mailman.25.1429589208.31470.python-list@python.org>
 <87oami5cdj.fsf@jester.gateway.sonic.net>
 <mailman.26.1429591195.31470.python-list@python.org>
 <87k2x65arq.fsf@jester.gateway.sonic.net>
 <mailman.27.1429593520.31470.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <87bnii58m8.fsf@jester.gateway.sonic.net>

Chris Angelico <rosuav at gmail.com> writes:
> Other decorators have to be able to recognize whether there's an outer
> dictionary or not. That means they have to dig into the annotating
> object to inquire as to whether or not their thing is there.

I'm imagining the annotation consumers themselves being wrapped by
something that handles that automatically:

@annotation
def cmdline(**args): ...

This turns cmdline into something that takes the function object, peels
off the cmdline annotations, and gives them to the function in the def.

There is still the issue of figuring out when there is just one
consumer, or more generally, identifying the outermost one.  But it
should be possible to come up with something.  Is there a metaclass for
functions that can notice when a def or decorator is run, or anything
like that?

>> would have been caught immediately by the type checker
> Assuming you run it immediately. 

I thought the idea of type checking is that it's run at compile time.
Maybe not as soon as the decorator is seen, since type info has to
propagate through the whole program before checking can finish, but it
gets caught when the checker runs.


From rosuav at gmail.com  Tue Apr 21 02:03:40 2015
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Tue, 21 Apr 2015 16:03:40 +1000
Subject: docstringargs: Python module for setting up argparse
In-Reply-To: <87bnii58m8.fsf@jester.gateway.sonic.net>
References: <mailman.10.1429510817.31470.python-list@python.org>
 <5534a94d$0$12985$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <mailman.11.1429515960.31470.python-list@python.org>
 <87wq165lng.fsf@jester.gateway.sonic.net>
 <mailman.24.1429579171.31470.python-list@python.org>
 <87sibu5emi.fsf@jester.gateway.sonic.net>
 <mailman.25.1429589208.31470.python-list@python.org>
 <87oami5cdj.fsf@jester.gateway.sonic.net>
 <mailman.26.1429591195.31470.python-list@python.org>
 <87k2x65arq.fsf@jester.gateway.sonic.net>
 <mailman.27.1429593520.31470.python-list@python.org>
 <87bnii58m8.fsf@jester.gateway.sonic.net>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmo=47Fz2BWXhydG27TYtkj3QFvtdL6UY4Tq0yFC+kJKHw@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Apr 21, 2015 at 3:54 PM, Paul Rubin <no.email at nospam.invalid> wrote:
> Chris Angelico <rosuav at gmail.com> writes:
>> Other decorators have to be able to recognize whether there's an outer
>> dictionary or not. That means they have to dig into the annotating
>> object to inquire as to whether or not their thing is there.
>
> I'm imagining the annotation consumers themselves being wrapped by
> something that handles that automatically:
>
> @annotation
> def cmdline(**args): ...
>
> This turns cmdline into something that takes the function object, peels
> off the cmdline annotations, and gives them to the function in the def.
>
> There is still the issue of figuring out when there is just one
> consumer, or more generally, identifying the outermost one.  But it
> should be possible to come up with something.  Is there a metaclass for
> functions that can notice when a def or decorator is run, or anything
> like that?

Ow, this is getting extremely complicated. And you still haven't
actually answered the fundamental problem, which is: When will you
need this? When will you actually want to put two different
annotations onto the same function's parameters?

A similar consideration applies to a class's metaclass. You can do a
lot of different things with metaclasses, but how often do you really
need to merge two of them? Almost never. (Not absolutely never; a
proposal came up recently for dealing with one edge case around
metaclasses. But it's still pretty rare.)

>>> would have been caught immediately by the type checker
>> Assuming you run it immediately.
>
> I thought the idea of type checking is that it's run at compile time.
> Maybe not as soon as the decorator is seen, since type info has to
> propagate through the whole program before checking can finish, but it
> gets caught when the checker runs.

The language isn't going to get any type checking. I suppose you could
mandate that all source control check-ins pass a type scan, but that's
no different from any other checks (eg "make sure the unit tests pass
before you push changes" or "make sure the buildbots are all green
before releasing to the client"). There's a disconnect between the
keying-in of code and the check being run, which means the bug can sit
there for anywhere from a few seconds to a few months (or worse). But
if there's no duplication of names, there can't possibly be an error
of naming.

ChrisA


From wxjmfauth at gmail.com  Tue Apr 21 02:29:34 2015
From: wxjmfauth at gmail.com (wxjmfauth at gmail.com)
Date: Mon, 20 Apr 2015 23:29:34 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [RELEASED] Python 3.5.0a4 is now available
In-Reply-To: <mailman.12.1429517764.31470.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.12.1429517764.31470.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <2f1e2416-0a89-4ce6-acc3-e75fd7a5fbf6@googlegroups.com>

Le lundi 20 avril 2015 10:16:17 UTC+2, Larry Hastings a ?crit?:
> On behalf of the Python development community and the Python 3.5
>         release team, I'm thrilled to announce the availability of
>         Python 3.5.0a4.?? Python 3.5.0a4 is the fourth and alpha release
>         of Python 3.5, which will be the next major release of Python.?
>         Python 3.5 is still under development, and is not yet complete.
> 
>         
> 
>         This is a preview release, and its use is not recommended for
>         production settings.
> 
>         
> 
>         The next release of Python 3.5 will be 3.5.0b1, the first beta
>         release.? Python 3.5 will enter "feature freeze" at this time;
>         no new features will be added to 3.5 after this point.? Python
>         3.5.0b1 is scheduled to be released May 22, 2015.
> 
>         
> 
>         Three important notes for Windows users about Python 3.5.0a4:
> 
>         
>           If you have previously installed Python 3.5.0a1, you may
>             need to manually uninstall it before installing Python
>             3.5.0a4 (issue23612).
>           If installing Python 3.5.0a4 as a non-privileged user, you
>             may need to escalate to administrator privileges to install
>             an update to your C runtime libraries.
>           There is now a third type of Windows installer for Python
>             3.5.? In addition to the conventional installer and the
>             web-based installer, Python 3.5 now has an embeddable
>             installer designed to be run as part of a larger
>             application's installer for apps using or extending Python.
> 
>           
>         
>         
> 
>         You can find Python 3.5.0a4 here:
> 
>         https://www.python.org/downloads/release/python-350a4/
> 
>         
>         Happy hacking,

"European" Windows 7 boxes.
Impossible to install, does not install.
What's going on? No idea.

At least, I tried.



From no.email at nospam.invalid  Tue Apr 21 02:46:01 2015
From: no.email at nospam.invalid (Paul Rubin)
Date: Mon, 20 Apr 2015 23:46:01 -0700
Subject: docstringargs: Python module for setting up argparse
References: <mailman.10.1429510817.31470.python-list@python.org>
 <5534a94d$0$12985$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <mailman.11.1429515960.31470.python-list@python.org>
 <87wq165lng.fsf@jester.gateway.sonic.net>
 <mailman.24.1429579171.31470.python-list@python.org>
 <87sibu5emi.fsf@jester.gateway.sonic.net>
 <mailman.25.1429589208.31470.python-list@python.org>
 <87oami5cdj.fsf@jester.gateway.sonic.net>
 <mailman.26.1429591195.31470.python-list@python.org>
 <87k2x65arq.fsf@jester.gateway.sonic.net>
 <mailman.27.1429593520.31470.python-list@python.org>
 <87bnii58m8.fsf@jester.gateway.sonic.net>
 <mailman.29.1429596228.31470.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <877ft6568m.fsf@jester.gateway.sonic.net>

Chris Angelico <rosuav at gmail.com> writes:
> Ow, this is getting extremely complicated. And you still haven't
> actually answered the fundamental problem, which is: When will you
> need this? When will you actually want to put two different
> annotations onto the same function's parameters?

You've posted this cool annotation for docstringargs: why shouldn't I
want to use it?  And PEP 0484 is about annotations for type checking,
also cool.  Why shouldn't I want to use that too?

> A similar consideration applies to a class's metaclass.

I'm not much of a believer in metaclasses (or classes for that matter)
but was trying to figure out a method to see all the decorators on a
function, and the metaclass seemed like a possibility.

> The language isn't going to get any type checking.

I thought it was one of the motivations for annotations.  PEP 0484
explains:

    ... the proposal assumes the existence of a separate off-line type
    checker which users can run over their source code voluntarily.

That sounds like Erlang's Dialyzer, which is pretty useful and
successful.  So it seems like a good idea to me.


From rosuav at gmail.com  Tue Apr 21 02:59:46 2015
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Tue, 21 Apr 2015 16:59:46 +1000
Subject: docstringargs: Python module for setting up argparse
In-Reply-To: <877ft6568m.fsf@jester.gateway.sonic.net>
References: <mailman.10.1429510817.31470.python-list@python.org>
 <5534a94d$0$12985$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <mailman.11.1429515960.31470.python-list@python.org>
 <87wq165lng.fsf@jester.gateway.sonic.net>
 <mailman.24.1429579171.31470.python-list@python.org>
 <87sibu5emi.fsf@jester.gateway.sonic.net>
 <mailman.25.1429589208.31470.python-list@python.org>
 <87oami5cdj.fsf@jester.gateway.sonic.net>
 <mailman.26.1429591195.31470.python-list@python.org>
 <87k2x65arq.fsf@jester.gateway.sonic.net>
 <mailman.27.1429593520.31470.python-list@python.org>
 <87bnii58m8.fsf@jester.gateway.sonic.net>
 <mailman.29.1429596228.31470.python-list@python.org>
 <877ft6568m.fsf@jester.gateway.sonic.net>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmqruwpmaRPcBpK67MWVB09jBAXh-79kELz_N1p31BOXow@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Apr 21, 2015 at 4:46 PM, Paul Rubin <no.email at nospam.invalid> wrote:
> Chris Angelico <rosuav at gmail.com> writes:
>> Ow, this is getting extremely complicated. And you still haven't
>> actually answered the fundamental problem, which is: When will you
>> need this? When will you actually want to put two different
>> annotations onto the same function's parameters?
>
> You've posted this cool annotation for docstringargs: why shouldn't I
> want to use it?  And PEP 0484 is about annotations for type checking,
> also cool.  Why shouldn't I want to use that too?

Except that docstringargs is mainly for top-level functions, and PEP
484 / MyPy is mainly for library functions - plus, docstringargs
basically implies that all the function parameters are strings, so the
annotations are going to be rather less useful.

>> The language isn't going to get any type checking.
>
> I thought it was one of the motivations for annotations.  PEP 0484
> explains:
>
>     ... the proposal assumes the existence of a separate off-line type
>     checker which users can run over their source code voluntarily.
>
> That sounds like Erlang's Dialyzer, which is pretty useful and
> successful.  So it seems like a good idea to me.

Off-line. Not part of the language itself. PEP 484 is standardizing a
format for them, but actually using them is staying the domain of
third-party utilities like MyPy. Nothing at all changes in the
language (annotations already exist), and the stdlib just grows a
typing.py that provides enough run-time so that things don't give
errors, but nothing in a basic CPython installation will do those
checks. Hence it's up to you what you do with them; simply running a
program won't check type annotations in any way.

ChrisA


From subhabrata.banerji at gmail.com  Tue Apr 21 03:56:45 2015
From: subhabrata.banerji at gmail.com (subhabrata.banerji at gmail.com)
Date: Tue, 21 Apr 2015 00:56:45 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Opening Multiple files at one time
In-Reply-To: <mailman.23.1429570195.31470.python-list@python.org>
References: <8b392c2f-b813-44f7-8376-a794314d398c@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.23.1429570195.31470.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <8b473d25-4d95-41f1-85ca-dbb525c05f60@googlegroups.com>

On Tuesday, April 21, 2015 at 4:20:16 AM UTC+5:30, Dave Angel wrote:
> On 04/20/2015 07:59 AM,  wrote:
> > Dear Group,
> >
> > I am trying to open multiple files at one time.
> > I am trying to do it as,
> >
> >   for item in  [ "one", "two", "three" ]:
> >         f = open (item + "world.txt", "w")
> >         f.close()
> >
> > This is fine.
> 
> But it does not open multiple files at one time.  Perhaps you'd better 
> explain better what you mean by "at one time."
> 
> > But I was looking if I do not know the number of
> > text files I would create beforehand,
> 
> So instead of using a literal list [ "one", "two... ]
> you construct one, or read it in from disk, or use sys.argv.  What's the 
> difficulty?  Nothing in the code fragment you show cares how long the 
> list is.
> 
> 
>   so not trying xrange option
> > also.
> 
> No idea what "the xrange option" means.
> 
> >
> > And if in every run of the code if the name of the text files have
> > to created on its own.
> 
> So figure out what you're going to use for those names, and write the 
> code to generate them.
> 
> >
> > Is there a solution for this?
> 
> For what?
> 
> 
> -- 
> DaveA

Yes. They do not. They are opening one by one. 
I have some big chunk of data I am getting by crawling etc.
now as I run the code it is fetching data. 
I am trying to fetch the data from various sites.
The contents of the file are getting getting stored in 
separate files. 
For example, if I open the site of "http://www.theguardian.com/international", then the result may be stored in file in file "file1.txt", and the contents of site "http://edition.cnn.com/", may be stored in file "file2.txt". 

But the contents of each site changes everyday. So everyday as you open these sites and store the results, you should store in different text files. These text files I am looking to be created on its own, as you do not know its numbers, how many numbers you need to fetch the data. 

I am trying to do some results with import datetime as datetime.datetime.now()
may change everytime. I am trying to put it as name of file. But you may suggest better. 

Regards,
Subhabrata Banerjee.


From davea at davea.name  Tue Apr 21 06:17:35 2015
From: davea at davea.name (Dave Angel)
Date: Tue, 21 Apr 2015 06:17:35 -0400
Subject: Opening Multiple files at one time
In-Reply-To: <8b473d25-4d95-41f1-85ca-dbb525c05f60@googlegroups.com>
References: <8b392c2f-b813-44f7-8376-a794314d398c@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.23.1429570195.31470.python-list@python.org>
 <8b473d25-4d95-41f1-85ca-dbb525c05f60@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <553623BF.4000602@davea.name>

On 04/21/2015 03:56 AM, subhabrata.banerji at gmail.com wrote:

>
> Yes. They do not. They are opening one by one.
> I have some big chunk of data I am getting by crawling etc.
> now as I run the code it is fetching data.
> I am trying to fetch the data from various sites.
> The contents of the file are getting getting stored in
> separate files.
> For example, if I open the site of "http://www.theguardian.com/international", then the result may be stored in file in file "file1.txt", and the contents of site "http://edition.cnn.com/", may be stored in file "file2.txt".
>
> But the contents of each site changes everyday. So everyday as you open these sites and store the results, you should store in different text files. These text files I am looking to be created on its own, as you do not know its numbers, how many numbers you need to fetch the data.
>
> I am trying to do some results with import datetime as datetime.datetime.now()
> may change everytime. I am trying to put it as name of file. But you may suggest better.
>

To get the text version of today's date, use something like:

import datetime
import itertools
SUFFIX = datetime.datetime.now().strftime("%Y$%m%d")

To write a filename generator that generates names sequentially  (untested):

def filenames(suffix=SUFFIX):
     for integer in itertools.count(1):
         yield "{0:04d}".format(integer) + "-" + SUFFIX


for filename in filenames():
     f = open (filename, "w")
     ...Do some work here which writes to the file, and does "break"
     ... if we don't need any more files
     f.close()

Note that this is literally open-ended.  If you don't put some logic in 
that loop which will break, it'll write files till your OS stops you, 
either because of disk full, or directory too large, or whatever.

I suggest you test the loop out by using a print() before using it to 
actually create the files.

In the format above, I used 4 digits, on the assumption that usually 
that is enough.  If you need more than that on the occasional day, it 
won't break, but the names won't be nicely sorted when you view them.


If this were my problem, I'd also use a generator for the web page 
names.  If you write that generator, then you could do something like 
(untested):

for filename, url in zip(filenames(), urlames():
     f = open (filename, "w")
     ... process the url, writing to file f
     f.close()

In this loop, it'll automatically end when you run out of urlnames.


I also think you should consider making the date the directory name you 
use, rather than putting many days files in a single directory.  But 
this mainly affects the way you concatenate the parts together.  You'd 
use os.path.join() rather than  "+" to combine parts.


-- 
DaveA


From davea at davea.name  Tue Apr 21 06:26:36 2015
From: davea at davea.name (Dave Angel)
Date: Tue, 21 Apr 2015 06:26:36 -0400
Subject: multiprocessing module and matplotlib.pyplot/PdfPages
In-Reply-To: <mh4bph$t8e$1@speranza.aioe.org>
References: <mh4bph$t8e$1@speranza.aioe.org>
Message-ID: <553625DC.6040506@davea.name>

On 04/20/2015 10:14 PM, Paulo da Silva wrote:
> I have program that generates about 100 relatively complex graphics and
> writes then to a pdf book.
> It takes a while!
> Is there any possibility of using multiprocessing to build the graphics
> and then use several calls to savefig(), i.e. some kind of graphic's
> objects?
>

To know if this is practical, we have to guess about the code you 
describe, and about the machine you're using.

First, if you don't have multiple cores on  your machine, then it's 
probably not going to be any faster, and might be substantially slower. 
  Ditto if the code is so large that multiple copies of it will cause 
swapping.

But if you have 4 cores, and a processor=bound algorithm, it can indeed 
save time to run 3 or 4 processes in parallel.  You'll have to write 
code to parcel out the parts that can be done in parallel, and make a 
queue that each process can grab its next assignment from.

There are other gotchas, such as common code that has to be run before 
any of the subprocesses.  If you discover that each of these 100 pieces 
has to access data from earlier pieces, then you could get bogged down 
in communications and coordination.

If the 100 plots are really quite independent, you could also consider 
recruiting time from multiple machines.  As long as the data that needs 
to go between them is not too large, it can pay off big time.

-- 
DaveA


From pm05491 at gmail.com  Tue Apr 21 06:57:18 2015
From: pm05491 at gmail.com (pm05491 at gmail.com)
Date: Tue, 21 Apr 2015 03:57:18 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: want to learn python
Message-ID: <6e61e220-f97f-4432-a089-ef73cd63db14@googlegroups.com>

Hello everyone,

I am willing to learn Python from scratch.Please he me to learn.Although I hv knowledge of c and object oriented programming.


From breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk  Tue Apr 21 07:01:41 2015
From: breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk (Mark Lawrence)
Date: Tue, 21 Apr 2015 12:01:41 +0100
Subject: a python song - learning
In-Reply-To: <CAPTjJmokQQHB5+CizQgMt9YY2TADjejcGASnOcnu5QrBuEmKWA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <64a29796-13d8-4617-b612-4299de891a59@googlegroups.com>
 <CAPTjJmokQQHB5+CizQgMt9YY2TADjejcGASnOcnu5QrBuEmKWA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <mh5amm$j3t$1@ger.gmane.org>

On 21/04/2015 06:50, Chris Angelico wrote:
> On Tue, Apr 21, 2015 at 3:43 PM, Sayth <flebber.crue at gmail.com> wrote:
>> If you were asked to right a song to teach new python programmers the core concepts of python to new pythonistas could you?
>>
>> What would be your song?
>>
>> song and mnemonics are a key to learning and memorizing but very rarely used,  at least in my experience with programming.
>>
>> Yet everyone knows the knee bone is connected to the. .. !
>>
>> Hit me with your best shot!
>
> Hit you? Sounds like this...
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=insM7oUYNOE
>
> ChrisA
>

Or...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0WGVgfjnLqc

-- 
My fellow Pythonistas, ask not what our language can do for you, ask
what you can do for our language.

Mark Lawrence



From breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk  Tue Apr 21 07:06:32 2015
From: breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk (Mark Lawrence)
Date: Tue, 21 Apr 2015 12:06:32 +0100
Subject: a python song -  learning
In-Reply-To: <64a29796-13d8-4617-b612-4299de891a59@googlegroups.com>
References: <64a29796-13d8-4617-b612-4299de891a59@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <mh5avq$nkt$1@ger.gmane.org>

On 21/04/2015 06:43, Sayth wrote:
> If you were asked to right a song to teach new python programmers the core concepts of python to new pythonistas could you?
>
> What would be your song?
>
> song and mnemonics are a key to learning and memorizing but very rarely used,  at least in my experience with programming.
>
> Yet everyone knows the knee bone is connected to the. .. !
>
> Hit me with your best shot!
>
> Sayth
>

Given that around one third of IT projects end up delivering nothing 
surely it's got to be "Always look on the bright side of life" :)

As an alternative perhaps we could get someone who is musically 
inclined, with Chris Angelico springing to my mind, to put The Zen of 
Python to music.

-- 
My fellow Pythonistas, ask not what our language can do for you, ask
what you can do for our language.

Mark Lawrence



From breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk  Tue Apr 21 07:22:08 2015
From: breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk (Mark Lawrence)
Date: Tue, 21 Apr 2015 12:22:08 +0100
Subject: want to learn python
In-Reply-To: <6e61e220-f97f-4432-a089-ef73cd63db14@googlegroups.com>
References: <6e61e220-f97f-4432-a089-ef73cd63db14@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <mh5bt1$7dk$1@ger.gmane.org>

On 21/04/2015 11:57, pm05491 at gmail.com wrote:
> Hello everyone,
>
> I am willing to learn Python from scratch.Please he me to learn.Although I hv knowledge of c and object oriented programming.
>

Welcome :)

Start here https://docs.python.org/3/tutorial/index.html

Besides this list there is also a tutor list, see 
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor which is also available 
as gmane.comp.python.tutor

-- 
My fellow Pythonistas, ask not what our language can do for you, ask
what you can do for our language.

Mark Lawrence



From waldemar.franczak at gmail.com  Tue Apr 21 08:25:20 2015
From: waldemar.franczak at gmail.com (waldemar.franczak at gmail.com)
Date: Tue, 21 Apr 2015 05:25:20 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: want to learn python
In-Reply-To: <6e61e220-f97f-4432-a089-ef73cd63db14@googlegroups.com>
References: <6e61e220-f97f-4432-a089-ef73cd63db14@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <8c98e377-f646-4cb1-86bd-ccf783bde8c5@googlegroups.com>

On Tuesday, April 21, 2015 at 11:57:34 AM UTC+1, Parikshit Mishra wrote:
> Hello everyone,
> 
> I am willing to learn Python from scratch.Please he me to learn.Although I hv knowledge of c and object oriented programming.

http://learnpythonthehardway.org/

Depending on your experience you can go through this book in few hours or a week, but it's perfect to start with python if you're not already a proficient programmer.


From llanitedave at birdandflower.com  Tue Apr 21 11:29:09 2015
From: llanitedave at birdandflower.com (llanitedave)
Date: Tue, 21 Apr 2015 08:29:09 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: New to Python - block grouping (spaces)
In-Reply-To: <16d59891-6e28-4256-870a-903bb75aa953@googlegroups.com>
References: <9fc57fc9-0399-4ff3-882a-d041f02827d8@googlegroups.com>
 <6580b5d5-92f5-4bfa-b1d0-889c69fe82bb@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.374.1429285961.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <mgrcb5$sn2$1@reader1.panix.com> <Y3bYw.302660$ms.24839@fx30.am4>
 <mailman.388.1429323788.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <7tMYw.252071$SO1.39320@fx43.am4>
 <mailman.405.1429456511.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <7413a8e7-b580-4b2f-84bc-dd13da2d36ba@googlegroups.com>
 <5533eb85$0$12992$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <16d59891-6e28-4256-870a-903bb75aa953@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <09bdfda4-9154-460b-bc54-f227f1c1fd90@googlegroups.com>

On Sunday, April 19, 2015 at 7:09:02 PM UTC-7, Rustom Mody wrote:
>
> 
> let me spell it out:
> Prestige of Aristotle stymies progress of physics of 2 millennia 
> likewise
> Prestige of Unix development environment keeps us stuck with text files when
> the world has moved on

Difference is, Aristotle was flat-out, objectively wrong.

Unix with text files, not so much.


From p_s_d_a_s_i_l_v_a_ns at netcabo.pt  Tue Apr 21 11:53:01 2015
From: p_s_d_a_s_i_l_v_a_ns at netcabo.pt (Paulo da Silva)
Date: Tue, 21 Apr 2015 16:53:01 +0100
Subject: multiprocessing module and matplotlib.pyplot/PdfPages
References: <mh4bph$t8e$1@speranza.aioe.org>
 <mailman.32.1429612012.31470.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <mh5ror$cs5$1@speranza.aioe.org>

On 21-04-2015 11:26, Dave Angel wrote:
> On 04/20/2015 10:14 PM, Paulo da Silva wrote:
>> I have program that generates about 100 relatively complex graphics and
>> writes then to a pdf book.
>> It takes a while!
>> Is there any possibility of using multiprocessing to build the graphics
>> and then use several calls to savefig(), i.e. some kind of graphic's
>> objects?
>>
> 
...

> 
> If the 100 plots are really quite independent, you could also consider
> recruiting time from multiple machines.  As long as the data that needs
> to go between them is not too large, it can pay off big time.
> 
Sorry if I was not clear.

Yes, I have 8 cores and the graphics' processes calculation are all
independent. The problem I have is that if there is any way to generate
independent figures in matplotlib. The logic seems to be build the
graphic and save it. I was trying to know if there is any way to build
graphic objects that can be built in parallel and, at the end, saved by
the controller task.

May be using fork instead of multiprocessing may do the job, but I still
didn't look at fork in Python. Being it possible to use multiprocessing
module for this purpose would make things easier.

Thanks



From rosuav at gmail.com  Tue Apr 21 11:58:53 2015
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Wed, 22 Apr 2015 01:58:53 +1000
Subject: multiprocessing module and matplotlib.pyplot/PdfPages
In-Reply-To: <mh5ror$cs5$1@speranza.aioe.org>
References: <mh4bph$t8e$1@speranza.aioe.org>
 <mailman.32.1429612012.31470.python-list@python.org>
 <mh5ror$cs5$1@speranza.aioe.org>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmqUWzG+7M64jNHW6y=CE1GmPUcyvj2Z46wSGMHE4T80pg@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Apr 22, 2015 at 1:53 AM, Paulo da Silva
<p_s_d_a_s_i_l_v_a_ns at netcabo.pt> wrote:
> Yes, I have 8 cores and the graphics' processes calculation are all
> independent. The problem I have is that if there is any way to generate
> independent figures in matplotlib. The logic seems to be build the
> graphic and save it. I was trying to know if there is any way to build
> graphic objects that can be built in parallel and, at the end, saved by
> the controller task.

The very simplest way would be to simply spawn entirely separate
Python processes. Each one would import matplotlib independently, do
its work, and save its figure. Would that work for what you're trying
to do?

ChrisA


From vinit.shanbhag18 at gmail.com  Tue Apr 21 13:03:34 2015
From: vinit.shanbhag18 at gmail.com (vinit.shanbhag18 at gmail.com)
Date: Tue, 21 Apr 2015 10:03:34 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Finding problem in GUI (wxpython) for a python app
Message-ID: <b682b434-7c09-4eb3-a9fa-6cbe03a869a0@googlegroups.com>

We are building an app that can help people to chat with the ones connected over LAN. No internet connection is required.For GUI we are using wxpython. Problem is in the Launching of a frame. In the beginning when a particular client say c1 receives a message from c2 we pop a new frame and c2's name to the frame list. our problem is when c2 sends the next message how to find the frame that is already opened and append this message to the frame. Are there any facility to find the frame with the name stored in the frame list? 


Help us... Thanking you     



I tried......WXpython

Could you tell me how FindWindowByName works? I couldn't find any example implementing it. I need to identify and open an open frame to append messages to it.I could only find syntax and am having trouble understanding it.Throws unbound method error.I know that this error pops up when a method is called using a wrong object.But I cannot call this method using a wx.Window object as that is what am trying to obtain in the first place....


From p_s_d_a_s_i_l_v_a_ns at netcabo.pt  Tue Apr 21 13:12:53 2015
From: p_s_d_a_s_i_l_v_a_ns at netcabo.pt (Paulo da Silva)
Date: Tue, 21 Apr 2015 18:12:53 +0100
Subject: multiprocessing module and matplotlib.pyplot/PdfPages
References: <mh4bph$t8e$1@speranza.aioe.org>
 <mailman.32.1429612012.31470.python-list@python.org>
 <mh5ror$cs5$1@speranza.aioe.org>
 <mailman.36.1429631936.31470.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <mh60ej$pbb$1@speranza.aioe.org>

On 21-04-2015 16:58, Chris Angelico wrote:
> On Wed, Apr 22, 2015 at 1:53 AM, Paulo da Silva
> <p_s_d_a_s_i_l_v_a_ns at netcabo.pt> wrote:
>> Yes, I have 8 cores and the graphics' processes calculation are all
>> independent. The problem I have is that if there is any way to generate
>> independent figures in matplotlib. The logic seems to be build the
>> graphic and save it. I was trying to know if there is any way to build
>> graphic objects that can be built in parallel and, at the end, saved by
>> the controller task.
> 
> The very simplest way would be to simply spawn entirely separate
> Python processes. Each one would import matplotlib independently, do
> its work, and save its figure. Would that work for what you're trying
> to do?
> 

Yes. fork will do that. I have just looked at it and it is the same as
unix fork (module os). I am thinking of launching several forks that
will produce .png images and at the end I'll call "convert" program to
place those .png files into a pdf book. A poor solution but much faster.

Unfortunately matplotlib seems not to be object oriented!



From ian.g.kelly at gmail.com  Tue Apr 21 13:31:13 2015
From: ian.g.kelly at gmail.com (Ian Kelly)
Date: Tue, 21 Apr 2015 11:31:13 -0600
Subject: Finding problem in GUI (wxpython) for a python app
In-Reply-To: <b682b434-7c09-4eb3-a9fa-6cbe03a869a0@googlegroups.com>
References: <b682b434-7c09-4eb3-a9fa-6cbe03a869a0@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <CALwzidkSHP+MptJ+zCrZ1tXTjy6wv3L8UBL9ZD2BSpniJuZabw@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Apr 21, 2015 at 11:03 AM,  <vinit.shanbhag18 at gmail.com> wrote:
> We are building an app that can help people to chat with the ones connected over LAN. No internet connection is required.For GUI we are using wxpython. Problem is in the Launching of a frame. In the beginning when a particular client say c1 receives a message from c2 we pop a new frame and c2's name to the frame list. our problem is when c2 sends the next message how to find the frame that is already opened and append this message to the frame. Are there any facility to find the frame with the name stored in the frame list?
>
>
> Help us... Thanking you
>
>
>
> I tried......WXpython
>
> Could you tell me how FindWindowByName works? I couldn't find any example implementing it. I need to identify and open an open frame to append messages to it.I could only find syntax and am having trouble understanding it.Throws unbound method error.I know that this error pops up when a method is called using a wrong object.But I cannot call this method using a wx.Window object as that is what am trying to obtain in the first place....

You don't need to pass it a wx.Window object, only a string. It can
optionally take a Window as the second argument, in order to restrict
the search to a particular part of the window hierarchy, but since
frames don't have parents, this would not be useful to you.

You might also find this resource useful:

http://nullege.com/codes/search/wx.FindWindowByName


From rgaddi at technologyhighland.invalid  Tue Apr 21 13:31:30 2015
From: rgaddi at technologyhighland.invalid (Rob Gaddi)
Date: Tue, 21 Apr 2015 17:31:30 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: multiprocessing module and matplotlib.pyplot/PdfPages
References: <mh4bph$t8e$1@speranza.aioe.org>
Message-ID: <mh61hi$1ls$3@dont-email.me>

On Tue, 21 Apr 2015 03:14:09 +0100, Paulo da Silva wrote:

> I have program that generates about 100 relatively complex graphics and
> writes then to a pdf book.
> It takes a while!
> Is there any possibility of using multiprocessing to build the graphics
> and then use several calls to savefig(), i.e. some kind of graphic's
> objects?
> 
> Thanks for any help/comments.

That sounds pretty reasonable.  Just be sure to explicitly close each 
figure once you're done with it.  Matplotlib figures take up a shocking 
amount of memory; nothing slows your system to a horrendous crawl like 
having to resort to swapping to disk.

One thing that would be a bit worrisome is managing order, since I'm 
assuming you have some order that you want the pages to be written in, 
and spawning things off to multiple processes creates a chokepoint where 
you'd need to hold things off and start them again in order to drop them 
into the PdfPages correctly.  Maybe you'd get some boost from a 
ProcessPoolExecutor, but maybe not.

That's where I like ChrisA's solution of having the various processes 
(whether they're spawned from the same thing or not) just each be 
responsible for writing out their own figures out to disk, one page per 
file, and then use something like pdftk to stitch them all together after 
the fact.

-- 
Rob Gaddi, Highland Technology -- www.highlandtechnology.com
Email address domain is currently out of order.  See above to fix.


From rustompmody at gmail.com  Tue Apr 21 13:49:19 2015
From: rustompmody at gmail.com (Rustom Mody)
Date: Tue, 21 Apr 2015 10:49:19 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: New to Python - block grouping (spaces)
In-Reply-To: <09bdfda4-9154-460b-bc54-f227f1c1fd90@googlegroups.com>
References: <9fc57fc9-0399-4ff3-882a-d041f02827d8@googlegroups.com>
 <6580b5d5-92f5-4bfa-b1d0-889c69fe82bb@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.374.1429285961.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <mgrcb5$sn2$1@reader1.panix.com> <Y3bYw.302660$ms.24839@fx30.am4>
 <mailman.388.1429323788.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <7tMYw.252071$SO1.39320@fx43.am4>
 <mailman.405.1429456511.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <7413a8e7-b580-4b2f-84bc-dd13da2d36ba@googlegroups.com>
 <5533eb85$0$12992$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <16d59891-6e28-4256-870a-903bb75aa953@googlegroups.com>
 <09bdfda4-9154-460b-bc54-f227f1c1fd90@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <80574d29-7db6-4f67-b667-6cdc980b77e5@googlegroups.com>

On Tuesday, April 21, 2015 at 9:01:08 PM UTC+5:30, llanitedave wrote:
> On Sunday, April 19, 2015 at 7:09:02 PM UTC-7, Rustom Mody wrote:
> >
> > 
> > let me spell it out:
> > Prestige of Aristotle stymies progress of physics of 2 millennia 
> > likewise
> > Prestige of Unix development environment keeps us stuck with text files when
> > the world has moved on
> 
> Difference is, Aristotle was flat-out, objectively wrong.
> 
> Unix with text files, not so much.

If only Galileo had had you as lawyer...


From skip.montanaro at gmail.com  Tue Apr 21 14:08:26 2015
From: skip.montanaro at gmail.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Tue, 21 Apr 2015 13:08:26 -0500
Subject: Type checking tools for Python 2?
Message-ID: <CANc-5Uw-cs5XMwrwOpsnV6dXO-iRVLxW1EW-Oi-OQM82R7Qqpg@mail.gmail.com>

I've been following along with the discussions related to type
hints[1] on python-ideas and python-dev. I'm interested enough to
start looking into this for my own nefarious purposes. At work, we
have lots of C++ code wrapped by Boost.Python. It seems like creating
type hint stubs for those libraries might be useful. Even if it proves
not to be all that useful for me, it's a ready code base which I could
mess around with and not bother anybody else.

Alas, my environment is still 100% Python 2.7. It looks like mypy
isn't going to be doing Python 2.x anytime soon. Are there any type
hint/check tools available which will work with Python 2?

Thx,

Skip

[1] https://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0484/


From tjreedy at udel.edu  Tue Apr 21 14:29:54 2015
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Tue, 21 Apr 2015 14:29:54 -0400
Subject: Type checking tools for Python 2?
In-Reply-To: <CANc-5Uw-cs5XMwrwOpsnV6dXO-iRVLxW1EW-Oi-OQM82R7Qqpg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CANc-5Uw-cs5XMwrwOpsnV6dXO-iRVLxW1EW-Oi-OQM82R7Qqpg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <mh64v3$drb$1@ger.gmane.org>

On 4/21/2015 2:08 PM, Skip Montanaro wrote:
> I've been following along with the discussions related to type
> hints[1] on python-ideas and python-dev. I'm interested enough to
> start looking into this for my own nefarious purposes. At work, we
> have lots of C++ code wrapped by Boost.Python. It seems like creating
> type hint stubs for those libraries might be useful. Even if it proves
> not to be all that useful for me, it's a ready code base which I could
> mess around with and not bother anybody else.
>
> Alas, my environment is still 100% Python 2.7. It looks like mypy
> isn't going to be doing Python 2.x anytime soon. Are there any type
> hint/check tools available which will work with Python 2?

I believe mypy can typecheck 2.x code in conjunction with stub files. 
The fact that you have to install Python 3 to run mypy should be irrelevant.

-- 
Terry Jan Reedy



From breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk  Tue Apr 21 14:36:35 2015
From: breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk (Mark Lawrence)
Date: Tue, 21 Apr 2015 19:36:35 +0100
Subject: Type checking tools for Python 2?
In-Reply-To: <CANc-5Uw-cs5XMwrwOpsnV6dXO-iRVLxW1EW-Oi-OQM82R7Qqpg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CANc-5Uw-cs5XMwrwOpsnV6dXO-iRVLxW1EW-Oi-OQM82R7Qqpg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <mh65bl$k71$1@ger.gmane.org>

On 21/04/2015 19:08, Skip Montanaro wrote:
> I've been following along with the discussions related to type
> hints[1] on python-ideas and python-dev. I'm interested enough to
> start looking into this for my own nefarious purposes. At work, we
> have lots of C++ code wrapped by Boost.Python. It seems like creating
> type hint stubs for those libraries might be useful. Even if it proves
> not to be all that useful for me, it's a ready code base which I could
> mess around with and not bother anybody else.
>
> Alas, my environment is still 100% Python 2.7. It looks like mypy
> isn't going to be doing Python 2.x anytime soon. Are there any type
> hint/check tools available which will work with Python 2?
>
> Thx,
>
> Skip
>
> [1] https://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0484/
>

Nothing at all wrong with Python 2.7.  Possibly better still from 
https://github.com/JukkaL/mypy it says "You need Python 3.2 or later to 
run mypy. You can have multiple Python versions (2.x and 3.x) installed 
on the same system without problems."  I'm just thinking out aloud, does 
this mean you could use a 3.x version running anywhere you like to check 
out your 2.7 codebase?  Just a thought, and only one way to find out 
unless somebody better qualified than I am can give a definitive statement.

-- 
My fellow Pythonistas, ask not what our language can do for you, ask
what you can do for our language.

Mark Lawrence



From rob.clewley at gmail.com  Tue Apr 21 15:02:02 2015
From: rob.clewley at gmail.com (Rob Clewley)
Date: Tue, 21 Apr 2015 15:02:02 -0400
Subject: Is there existing code to log-with-bells-on for runtime algorithm
 diagnostics?
Message-ID: <CA+7tCyR=YZstmdZi9smie4=cZc+sXs61-oxzkSLhMW73+0FQVA@mail.gmail.com>

Hi,

I'm in need of a system for logging the step-wise results and
diagnostic metadata about a python function implementation of an
algorithm that I'm developing. The specific algorithm is not of great
consequence except that it's for scientific computing and may produce
large (e.g., '00s or maybe '000s, but not "big data" scale) amounts of
intermediate numerical data that can be complex to understand when
debugging its progress.

In fact, I'm trying to build a general purpose tool for exploring the
inner workings of numerical algorithms for teaching and learning
purposes, e.g. for graduate student training or for figuring out
parameter choices in difficult applications.

I want to be able to insert commands inside of the loops that log
certain variable states, completed stages of the algorithm (assume
it's hierarchical), text warnings, and possibly even 'pointers' to
graphical output objects of some of the intermediate data (e.g.
matplotlib object handles for lines, points). Then I can trace the
work done afterwards or step through the process in an IDE debugger
and make interactive calls to access recent steps, plot certain
relationships in the current state, etc. The basic logger's "levels"
of output don't really apply here. I at least want categories, if not
hierarchical sub-categories.

I don't think the built-in logger is sophisticated enough for this,
being a flat record of freeform text AFAIU, but the API looks
appealing.

I'm considering an in-memory sqlite DB to store structured records at
any logged step, and an accompanying dictionary to store references to
any python object metadata, keyed by a unique ID in the DB log. Then
I'd write an API for it that resembles the logger's.

It's not super hard for me to write my own thing here, but I'm
wondering if anyone has come across any existing solutions in this
vein, or has any advice before I go further in designing a solution? I
can't really believe that no-one has attempted this before, but it's
been really hard to find any existing work through online search.

Thanks,
Rob


From skip.montanaro at gmail.com  Tue Apr 21 15:11:00 2015
From: skip.montanaro at gmail.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Tue, 21 Apr 2015 14:11:00 -0500
Subject: Type checking tools for Python 2?
In-Reply-To: <mh64v3$drb$1@ger.gmane.org>
References: <CANc-5Uw-cs5XMwrwOpsnV6dXO-iRVLxW1EW-Oi-OQM82R7Qqpg@mail.gmail.com>
 <mh64v3$drb$1@ger.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <CANc-5UyE+L_FLE4e3jKOgxcAearFobUSRHpKBnM5OjR06Kq5ww@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Apr 21, 2015 at 1:29 PM, Terry Reedy <tjreedy at udel.edu> wrote:
> I believe mypy can typecheck 2.x code in conjunction with stub files.

Thanks. Maybe the MyPy FAQ is just out-of-date? It includes this Q&A:

    All of my code is still in Python 2. What are my options?

    Mypy currently supports Python 3 syntax. Python 2 support is still
    in early stages of development. However, Python 2 support will be
    improving. Mypy includes a custom codec that lets you use Python 3
    function annotations in Python 2 code. The codec just removes the
    annotations before bytecode compilation.

Unless I misread the first couple sentences of the answer, it seems
that it can't actually grok Python 2 code. I'm not sure what to make
of the statement about a "custom codec" and how that would relate to
function annotations.

Skip


From tjreedy at udel.edu  Tue Apr 21 15:26:25 2015
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Tue, 21 Apr 2015 15:26:25 -0400
Subject: Type checking tools for Python 2?
In-Reply-To: <CANc-5UyE+L_FLE4e3jKOgxcAearFobUSRHpKBnM5OjR06Kq5ww@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CANc-5Uw-cs5XMwrwOpsnV6dXO-iRVLxW1EW-Oi-OQM82R7Qqpg@mail.gmail.com>
 <mh64v3$drb$1@ger.gmane.org>
 <CANc-5UyE+L_FLE4e3jKOgxcAearFobUSRHpKBnM5OjR06Kq5ww@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <mh6892$79q$1@ger.gmane.org>

On 4/21/2015 3:11 PM, Skip Montanaro wrote:
> On Tue, Apr 21, 2015 at 1:29 PM, Terry Reedy <tjreedy at udel.edu> wrote:
>> I believe mypy can typecheck 2.x code in conjunction with stub files.

I based this on comments in the PEP 484 discussion on py-dev, which I 
might have misread as being about now rather than the future.  Or maybe 
the comment was about something other than mypy.  Google's python 
typechecker is certainly targeting 2.7, since that is what they are 
using.  I do not know if they will release it publicly.



> Thanks. Maybe the MyPy FAQ is just out-of-date? It includes this Q&A:
>
>      All of my code is still in Python 2. What are my options?
>
>      Mypy currently supports Python 3 syntax. Python 2 support is still
>      in early stages of development. However, Python 2 support will be
>      improving. Mypy includes a custom codec that lets you use Python 3
>      function annotations in Python 2 code. The codec just removes the
>      annotations before bytecode compilation.
>
> Unless I misread the first couple sentences of the answer, it seems
> that it can't actually grok Python 2 code. I'm not sure what to make
> of the statement about a "custom codec" and how that would relate to
> function annotations.

Sorry if I jumped the gun on mypy.

-- 
Terry Jan Reedy



From ian.g.kelly at gmail.com  Tue Apr 21 15:29:17 2015
From: ian.g.kelly at gmail.com (Ian Kelly)
Date: Tue, 21 Apr 2015 13:29:17 -0600
Subject: Is there existing code to log-with-bells-on for runtime algorithm
 diagnostics?
In-Reply-To: <CA+7tCyR=YZstmdZi9smie4=cZc+sXs61-oxzkSLhMW73+0FQVA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CA+7tCyR=YZstmdZi9smie4=cZc+sXs61-oxzkSLhMW73+0FQVA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CALwzidkSqQspUPPoYR7DOZ86+z_BwrX1FJ18SAqWL9u2_AmWww@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Apr 21, 2015 at 1:02 PM, Rob Clewley <rob.clewley at gmail.com> wrote:
> I don't think the built-in logger is sophisticated enough for this,
> being a flat record of freeform text AFAIU, but the API looks
> appealing.

It doesn't have to be a flat record. You can write a custom a Handler
that does anything you want with the LogRecord, e.g. writing
structured data to a relational database. With logging filters, you
could set that up either in addition to or in place of the standard
flatfile logging.

> I want to be able to insert commands inside of the loops that log
> certain variable states, completed stages of the algorithm (assume
> it's hierarchical), text warnings, and possibly even 'pointers' to
> graphical output objects of some of the intermediate data (e.g.
> matplotlib object handles for lines, points). Then I can trace the
> work done afterwards or step through the process in an IDE debugger
> and make interactive calls to access recent steps, plot certain
> relationships in the current state, etc. The basic logger's "levels"
> of output don't really apply here. I at least want categories, if not
> hierarchical sub-categories.

You might want to also take a look at LoggerAdapters, which let you
add additional contextual data to the LogRecord. You could potentially
use that to define whatever sort of categorization you want.


From skip.montanaro at gmail.com  Tue Apr 21 15:33:55 2015
From: skip.montanaro at gmail.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Tue, 21 Apr 2015 14:33:55 -0500
Subject: Type checking tools for Python 2?
In-Reply-To: <mh6892$79q$1@ger.gmane.org>
References: <CANc-5Uw-cs5XMwrwOpsnV6dXO-iRVLxW1EW-Oi-OQM82R7Qqpg@mail.gmail.com>
 <mh64v3$drb$1@ger.gmane.org>
 <CANc-5UyE+L_FLE4e3jKOgxcAearFobUSRHpKBnM5OjR06Kq5ww@mail.gmail.com>
 <mh6892$79q$1@ger.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <CANc-5UwV6Cp0tGxGEcNvpR9_K5t3NF0SMJ6jVK1CnYwxAaPQfg@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Apr 21, 2015 at 2:26 PM, Terry Reedy <tjreedy at udel.edu> wrote:
> Sorry if I jumped the gun on mypy.

Not a problem. I went ahead and installed Python 3.5a4 and mypy. It
seems to run, but it isn't terribly happy with my Python 2 code. Not
so much the actual syntax as things like the builtin cmp() function
and the cPickle module being missing.

Skip


From robert.kern at gmail.com  Tue Apr 21 16:22:34 2015
From: robert.kern at gmail.com (Robert Kern)
Date: Tue, 21 Apr 2015 21:22:34 +0100
Subject: [SciPy-User] Is there existing code to log-with-bells-on for
 runtime algorithm diagnostics?
In-Reply-To: <CA+7tCyR=YZstmdZi9smie4=cZc+sXs61-oxzkSLhMW73+0FQVA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CA+7tCyR=YZstmdZi9smie4=cZc+sXs61-oxzkSLhMW73+0FQVA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAF6FJitWApUdez8N9HbQA4zTXYhwWp34e0-cB+B3p5uu_smjCA@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Apr 21, 2015 at 8:02 PM, Rob Clewley <rob.clewley at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
> I'm in need of a system for logging the step-wise results and
> diagnostic metadata about a python function implementation of an
> algorithm that I'm developing. The specific algorithm is not of great
> consequence except that it's for scientific computing and may produce
> large (e.g., '00s or maybe '000s, but not "big data" scale) amounts of
> intermediate numerical data that can be complex to understand when
> debugging its progress.
>
> In fact, I'm trying to build a general purpose tool for exploring the
> inner workings of numerical algorithms for teaching and learning
> purposes, e.g. for graduate student training or for figuring out
> parameter choices in difficult applications.

The term you want to search for is "structured logging".

http://www.structlog.org/en/stable/
http://eliot.readthedocs.org/en/stable/
https://twiggy.readthedocs.org/en/latest/logging.html#structured-logging
http://netlogger.lbl.gov/

--
Robert Kern
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/attachments/20150421/0fcb2daa/attachment.html>

From rob.clewley at gmail.com  Tue Apr 21 16:46:34 2015
From: rob.clewley at gmail.com (Rob Clewley)
Date: Tue, 21 Apr 2015 16:46:34 -0400
Subject: [SciPy-User] Is there existing code to log-with-bells-on for
 runtime algorithm diagnostics?
In-Reply-To: <CAF6FJitWApUdez8N9HbQA4zTXYhwWp34e0-cB+B3p5uu_smjCA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CA+7tCyR=YZstmdZi9smie4=cZc+sXs61-oxzkSLhMW73+0FQVA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAF6FJitWApUdez8N9HbQA4zTXYhwWp34e0-cB+B3p5uu_smjCA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CA+7tCyRUuatqFwb5MMmWATAUsvXh1TGEmqdDARqKMz05K9DnjQ@mail.gmail.com>

All of these ideas and links are very helpful, thank you!
-Rob


From breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk  Tue Apr 21 17:19:36 2015
From: breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk (Mark Lawrence)
Date: Tue, 21 Apr 2015 22:19:36 +0100
Subject: Is there existing code to log-with-bells-on for runtime algorithm
 diagnostics?
In-Reply-To: <CAF6FJitWApUdez8N9HbQA4zTXYhwWp34e0-cB+B3p5uu_smjCA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CA+7tCyR=YZstmdZi9smie4=cZc+sXs61-oxzkSLhMW73+0FQVA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAF6FJitWApUdez8N9HbQA4zTXYhwWp34e0-cB+B3p5uu_smjCA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <mh6etb$mme$1@ger.gmane.org>

On 21/04/2015 21:22, Robert Kern wrote:
> On Tue, Apr 21, 2015 at 8:02 PM, Rob Clewley <rob.clewley at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> Hi,
>>
>> I'm in need of a system for logging the step-wise results and
>> diagnostic metadata about a python function implementation of an
>> algorithm that I'm developing. The specific algorithm is not of great
>> consequence except that it's for scientific computing and may produce
>> large (e.g., '00s or maybe '000s, but not "big data" scale) amounts of
>> intermediate numerical data that can be complex to understand when
>> debugging its progress.
>>
>> In fact, I'm trying to build a general purpose tool for exploring the
>> inner workings of numerical algorithms for teaching and learning
>> purposes, e.g. for graduate student training or for figuring out
>> parameter choices in difficult applications.
>
> The term you want to search for is "structured logging".
>
> http://www.structlog.org/en/stable/
> http://eliot.readthedocs.org/en/stable/
> https://twiggy.readthedocs.org/en/latest/logging.html#structured-logging
> http://netlogger.lbl.gov/
>
> --
> Robert Kern
>

Thanks for the term, which I've certainly never heard before, and the links.

-- 
My fellow Pythonistas, ask not what our language can do for you, ask
what you can do for our language.

Mark Lawrence



From llanitedave at birdandflower.com  Tue Apr 21 17:35:38 2015
From: llanitedave at birdandflower.com (llanitedave)
Date: Tue, 21 Apr 2015 14:35:38 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: New to Python - block grouping (spaces)
In-Reply-To: <80574d29-7db6-4f67-b667-6cdc980b77e5@googlegroups.com>
References: <9fc57fc9-0399-4ff3-882a-d041f02827d8@googlegroups.com>
 <6580b5d5-92f5-4bfa-b1d0-889c69fe82bb@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.374.1429285961.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <mgrcb5$sn2$1@reader1.panix.com> <Y3bYw.302660$ms.24839@fx30.am4>
 <mailman.388.1429323788.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <7tMYw.252071$SO1.39320@fx43.am4>
 <mailman.405.1429456511.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <7413a8e7-b580-4b2f-84bc-dd13da2d36ba@googlegroups.com>
 <5533eb85$0$12992$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <16d59891-6e28-4256-870a-903bb75aa953@googlegroups.com>
 <09bdfda4-9154-460b-bc54-f227f1c1fd90@googlegroups.com>
 <80574d29-7db6-4f67-b667-6cdc980b77e5@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <56e8beb8-88e3-4664-b95a-2875fa831bff@googlegroups.com>

On Tuesday, April 21, 2015 at 10:49:34 AM UTC-7, Rustom Mody wrote:
> On Tuesday, April 21, 2015 at 9:01:08 PM UTC+5:30, llanitedave wrote:
> > On Sunday, April 19, 2015 at 7:09:02 PM UTC-7, Rustom Mody wrote:
> > >
> > > 
> > > let me spell it out:
> > > Prestige of Aristotle stymies progress of physics of 2 millennia 
> > > likewise
> > > Prestige of Unix development environment keeps us stuck with text files when
> > > the world has moved on
> > 
> > Difference is, Aristotle was flat-out, objectively wrong.
> > 
> > Unix with text files, not so much.
> 
> If only Galileo had had you as lawyer...

Well, I'd asked Giordano Bruno for a positive recommendation.  For some inexplicable reason, he declined.


From rosuav at gmail.com  Tue Apr 21 18:52:25 2015
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Wed, 22 Apr 2015 08:52:25 +1000
Subject: Type checking tools for Python 2?
In-Reply-To: <CANc-5UwV6Cp0tGxGEcNvpR9_K5t3NF0SMJ6jVK1CnYwxAaPQfg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CANc-5Uw-cs5XMwrwOpsnV6dXO-iRVLxW1EW-Oi-OQM82R7Qqpg@mail.gmail.com>
 <mh64v3$drb$1@ger.gmane.org>
 <CANc-5UyE+L_FLE4e3jKOgxcAearFobUSRHpKBnM5OjR06Kq5ww@mail.gmail.com>
 <mh6892$79q$1@ger.gmane.org>
 <CANc-5UwV6Cp0tGxGEcNvpR9_K5t3NF0SMJ6jVK1CnYwxAaPQfg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmpwFikU8495VLfZfn6mYegnVpoMmH9FLCTmrgwtFyp56Q@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Apr 22, 2015 at 5:33 AM, Skip Montanaro
<skip.montanaro at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Tue, Apr 21, 2015 at 2:26 PM, Terry Reedy <tjreedy at udel.edu> wrote:
>> Sorry if I jumped the gun on mypy.
>
> Not a problem. I went ahead and installed Python 3.5a4 and mypy. It
> seems to run, but it isn't terribly happy with my Python 2 code. Not
> so much the actual syntax as things like the builtin cmp() function
> and the cPickle module being missing.

Shouldn't be too hard to add a few stub files; cPickle could just
"from pickle import *", and cmp() would take two of Any and return
int, etc. MyPy will, if I've understood the docs correctly, welcome a
patch/pull-request that adds this kind of thing.

Actually, the things I'd most expect problems with are the print
statement and "int/int -> int" division, the latter mainly because
it's so subtle. (The bytes vs unicode distinction is dealt with
already.) But both can be fixed with future directives anyway, so
worst case you just have to help your code come a bit closer to Py3
(and frankly, that's not a bad thing).

ChrisA


From cs at zip.com.au  Tue Apr 21 20:11:26 2015
From: cs at zip.com.au (Cameron Simpson)
Date: Wed, 22 Apr 2015 10:11:26 +1000
Subject: [SciPy-User] Is there existing code to log-with-bells-on for
 runtime algorithm diagnostics?
In-Reply-To: <CA+7tCyRUuatqFwb5MMmWATAUsvXh1TGEmqdDARqKMz05K9DnjQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CA+7tCyRUuatqFwb5MMmWATAUsvXh1TGEmqdDARqKMz05K9DnjQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20150422001126.GA81272@cskk.homeip.net>

On 21Apr2015 16:46, Rob Clewley <rob.clewley at gmail.com> wrote:
>All of these ideas and links are very helpful, thank you!

Another to add to your list, a be warned that it is baroque.

I have a context manager named "Pfx" which I use liberally in my code like 
this:

  from cs.logutils import Pfx, info

  def load(filename):
    with Pfx("loading %r", filename):
      with open(filename) as fp:
        lineno = 0
        for line in fp:
          lineno += 1
          with Pfx("%d", lineno):
            ... do stuff with line ...
            info("line value is foo=%r", foo)
            ...

This causes the info() call to report like this:

  loading 'myfile.dat': 21: line value is foo=12345

It hooks into the logging system anyway, which means that you can (a) apply a 
format to the above to get leading timestamps and so forth and (b) you can use 
logging facilities like emit() or Handlers to direct the messages where you 
like.
  
Codewise, this has the following advantages:

  - the info() call just has the local message, context is added automatically

  - it nests arbitrarily through the call chain, so outer functions using Pfx add context as you'd hope:

    2015-04-22 10:09:00 main: out_func: loading 'myfile.dat': 21: lone value is foo=12345

  - the Pfx context manager catches and reraises exceptions also and embeds the context in the except message where possible, which is incredibly useful

It is _very_ useful in hierarchical processing situations.

Let me know if you want further information or the code.

Cheers,
Cameron Simpson <cs at zip.com.au>

If you give me six lines written by the most honest man, I will find
something in them to hang him.  - Cardinal Richilieu


From rosuav at gmail.com  Tue Apr 21 20:50:05 2015
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Wed, 22 Apr 2015 10:50:05 +1000
Subject: [SciPy-User] Is there existing code to log-with-bells-on for
 runtime algorithm diagnostics?
In-Reply-To: <20150422001126.GA81272@cskk.homeip.net>
References: <CA+7tCyRUuatqFwb5MMmWATAUsvXh1TGEmqdDARqKMz05K9DnjQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <20150422001126.GA81272@cskk.homeip.net>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmr8_qUwT==mOBxMAoP3gHx3yhz0Jitjhk_a6RBWKT===Q@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Apr 22, 2015 at 10:11 AM, Cameron Simpson <cs at zip.com.au> wrote:
> I have a context manager named "Pfx" which I use liberally in my code like
> this:
>
>  from cs.logutils import Pfx, info
>
>  def load(filename):
>    with Pfx("loading %r", filename):
>      with open(filename) as fp:
>        lineno = 0
>        for line in fp:
>          lineno += 1
>          with Pfx("%d", lineno):
>            ... do stuff with line ...
>            info("line value is foo=%r", foo)
>            ...
>
> This causes the info() call to report like this:
>
>  loading 'myfile.dat': 21: line value is foo=12345

Very nice! I'm guessing it depends on the use of info(), though,
rather than applying to pre-existing logging calls? Even so, all that
means is that you use a specific call to do your logging, and
everything works perfectly. The nesting is excellent.

ChrisA


From cs at zip.com.au  Tue Apr 21 21:21:50 2015
From: cs at zip.com.au (Cameron Simpson)
Date: Wed, 22 Apr 2015 11:21:50 +1000
Subject: [SciPy-User] Is there existing code to log-with-bells-on for
 runtime algorithm diagnostics?
In-Reply-To: <CAPTjJmr8_qUwT==mOBxMAoP3gHx3yhz0Jitjhk_a6RBWKT===Q@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAPTjJmr8_qUwT==mOBxMAoP3gHx3yhz0Jitjhk_a6RBWKT===Q@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20150422012150.GA83564@cskk.homeip.net>

On 22Apr2015 10:50, Chris Angelico <rosuav at gmail.com> wrote:
>On Wed, Apr 22, 2015 at 10:11 AM, Cameron Simpson <cs at zip.com.au> wrote:
>> I have a context manager named "Pfx" which I use liberally in my code like
>> this:
>>
>>  from cs.logutils import Pfx, info
>>
>>  def load(filename):
>>    with Pfx("loading %r", filename):
>>      with open(filename) as fp:
>>        lineno = 0
>>        for line in fp:
>>          lineno += 1
>>          with Pfx("%d", lineno):
>>            ... do stuff with line ...
>>            info("line value is foo=%r", foo)
>>            ...
>>
>> This causes the info() call to report like this:
>>
>>  loading 'myfile.dat': 21: line value is foo=12345
>
>Very nice! I'm guessing it depends on the use of info(), though,
>rather than applying to pre-existing logging calls? Even so, all that
>means is that you use a specific call to do your logging, and
>everything works perfectly. The nesting is excellent.

Well, yes; there's a small suite of wrappers in the cs.logging module. But you 
can hook them up to various outputs via the core logging stuff. The exception 
catch/reraise is also very useful - orthoganal to the logging.

It is in PyPI, BTW.

Cheers,
Cameron Simpson <cs at zip.com.au>

I fit in my suit, my suit fits in my suitcase, hence i fit in my suitcase.
        - Cees Keyer <cees at htsa.hva.nl>


From davea at davea.name  Tue Apr 21 22:34:56 2015
From: davea at davea.name (Dave Angel)
Date: Tue, 21 Apr 2015 22:34:56 -0400
Subject: multiprocessing module and matplotlib.pyplot/PdfPages
In-Reply-To: <4aodjaho3t584317kqgquort4rennbom3i@4ax.com>
References: <mh4bph$t8e$1@speranza.aioe.org>
 <mailman.32.1429612012.31470.python-list@python.org>
 <mh5ror$cs5$1@speranza.aioe.org>
 <mailman.36.1429631936.31470.python-list@python.org>
 <mh60ej$pbb$1@speranza.aioe.org> <4aodjaho3t584317kqgquort4rennbom3i@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <553708D0.4010400@davea.name>

On 04/21/2015 07:54 PM, Dennis Lee Bieber wrote:
> On Tue, 21 Apr 2015 18:12:53 +0100, Paulo da Silva
> <p_s_d_a_s_i_l_v_a_ns at netcabo.pt> declaimed the following:
>
>
>>
>> Yes. fork will do that. I have just looked at it and it is the same as
>> unix fork (module os). I am thinking of launching several forks that
>> will produce .png images and at the end I'll call "convert" program to
>> place those .png files into a pdf book. A poor solution but much faster.
>>
>
> 	To the best of my knowledge, on a UNIX-type OS, multiprocessing /uses/
> fork() already. Windows does not have the equivalent of fork(), so
> multiprocessing uses a different method to create the process
> (conceptually, it runs a program that does an import of the module followed
> by a call to the named method -- which is why one must follow the
>
> if __name__  ...
>
> bit prevent the subprocess import from repeating the original main program.
>

The page:
 
https://docs.python.org/3/library/multiprocessing.html#contexts-and-start-methods

indicates that there are 3 ways in which a new process may be started. 
On Unix you may use any of the three, while on Windows, you're stuck 
with spawn.

I *think* that in Unix, it always does a fork.  But if you specify 
"spawn" in Unix, you get all the extra overhead to wind up with what 
you're describing above.  If you know your code will run only on Unix, 
you presumably can get much more efficiency by using the fork 
start-method explicitly.

I haven't done it, but it would seem likely to me that forked code can 
continue to use existing global variables.  Changes to those variables 
would not be shared across the two forked processes.  But if this is 
true, it would seem to be much easier way to launch the second process, 
if it's going to be nearly identical to the first.

Maybe this is just describing the os.fork() function.
    https://docs.python.org/3.4/library/os.html#os.fork

-- 
DaveA


From rustompmody at gmail.com  Tue Apr 21 23:11:30 2015
From: rustompmody at gmail.com (Rustom Mody)
Date: Tue, 21 Apr 2015 20:11:30 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: New to Python - block grouping (spaces)
In-Reply-To: <56e8beb8-88e3-4664-b95a-2875fa831bff@googlegroups.com>
References: <9fc57fc9-0399-4ff3-882a-d041f02827d8@googlegroups.com>
 <6580b5d5-92f5-4bfa-b1d0-889c69fe82bb@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.374.1429285961.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <mgrcb5$sn2$1@reader1.panix.com> <Y3bYw.302660$ms.24839@fx30.am4>
 <mailman.388.1429323788.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <7tMYw.252071$SO1.39320@fx43.am4>
 <mailman.405.1429456511.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <7413a8e7-b580-4b2f-84bc-dd13da2d36ba@googlegroups.com>
 <5533eb85$0$12992$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <16d59891-6e28-4256-870a-903bb75aa953@googlegroups.com>
 <09bdfda4-9154-460b-bc54-f227f1c1fd90@googlegroups.com>
 <80574d29-7db6-4f67-b667-6cdc980b77e5@googlegroups.com>
 <56e8beb8-88e3-4664-b95a-2875fa831bff@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <069aea77-ef73-4220-8119-027f687b1945@googlegroups.com>

On Wednesday, April 22, 2015 at 3:05:57 AM UTC+5:30, llanitedave wrote:
> On Tuesday, April 21, 2015 at 10:49:34 AM UTC-7, Rustom Mody wrote:
> > If only Galileo had had you as lawyer...
> 
> Well, I'd asked Giordano Bruno for a positive recommendation.  For some
> inexplicable reason, he declined.

Maybe got too steamed-up pursuing high philosophy??


From ganesh1pal at gmail.com  Tue Apr 21 23:31:22 2015
From: ganesh1pal at gmail.com (Ganesh Pal)
Date: Wed, 22 Apr 2015 09:01:22 +0530
Subject: python : timeit - Tool for measuring execution time
Message-ID: <CACT3xuWveN3-XyGp5F_CwTAATCm=efGgWeM+LCaHV-YseS6J8g@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Team,

Iam running the below command on Linux machine have Python 2.7
installed , I was trying to figure out the speed difference between
xrange and range functions.


range :

python -m timeit 'for i in range(1000000):' ' pass'
10 loops, best of 3: 90.5 msec per loop


$ python -m timeit 'for i in xrange(1000000):' ' pass'
10 loops, best of 3: 51.1 msec per loop


Iam not able to understand what  why only 10 loops were run ? what
does this mean and how  does this work ?


Regards,
Ganesh


From ian.g.kelly at gmail.com  Wed Apr 22 00:00:12 2015
From: ian.g.kelly at gmail.com (Ian Kelly)
Date: Tue, 21 Apr 2015 22:00:12 -0600
Subject: docstringargs: Python module for setting up argparse
In-Reply-To: <CAPTjJmqruwpmaRPcBpK67MWVB09jBAXh-79kELz_N1p31BOXow@mail.gmail.com>
References: <mailman.10.1429510817.31470.python-list@python.org>
 <5534a94d$0$12985$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <mailman.11.1429515960.31470.python-list@python.org>
 <87wq165lng.fsf@jester.gateway.sonic.net>
 <mailman.24.1429579171.31470.python-list@python.org>
 <87sibu5emi.fsf@jester.gateway.sonic.net>
 <mailman.25.1429589208.31470.python-list@python.org>
 <87oami5cdj.fsf@jester.gateway.sonic.net>
 <mailman.26.1429591195.31470.python-list@python.org>
 <87k2x65arq.fsf@jester.gateway.sonic.net>
 <mailman.27.1429593520.31470.python-list@python.org>
 <87bnii58m8.fsf@jester.gateway.sonic.net>
 <mailman.29.1429596228.31470.python-list@python.org>
 <877ft6568m.fsf@jester.gateway.sonic.net>
 <CAPTjJmqruwpmaRPcBpK67MWVB09jBAXh-79kELz_N1p31BOXow@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CALwzid=Xsh3hBK+xeHwKo7Yi-XOmq8Nf+KfQ89gUCOesbmQN2A@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Apr 21, 2015 at 12:59 AM, Chris Angelico <rosuav at gmail.com> wrote:
> plus, docstringargs
> basically implies that all the function parameters are strings, so the
> annotations are going to be rather less useful.

Why is that? argparse supports non-string args, so why couldn't
docstringargs as well?


From llanitedave at birdandflower.com  Wed Apr 22 00:05:22 2015
From: llanitedave at birdandflower.com (llanitedave)
Date: Tue, 21 Apr 2015 21:05:22 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: New to Python - block grouping (spaces)
In-Reply-To: <069aea77-ef73-4220-8119-027f687b1945@googlegroups.com>
References: <9fc57fc9-0399-4ff3-882a-d041f02827d8@googlegroups.com>
 <6580b5d5-92f5-4bfa-b1d0-889c69fe82bb@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.374.1429285961.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <mgrcb5$sn2$1@reader1.panix.com> <Y3bYw.302660$ms.24839@fx30.am4>
 <mailman.388.1429323788.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <7tMYw.252071$SO1.39320@fx43.am4>
 <mailman.405.1429456511.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <7413a8e7-b580-4b2f-84bc-dd13da2d36ba@googlegroups.com>
 <5533eb85$0$12992$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <16d59891-6e28-4256-870a-903bb75aa953@googlegroups.com>
 <09bdfda4-9154-460b-bc54-f227f1c1fd90@googlegroups.com>
 <80574d29-7db6-4f67-b667-6cdc980b77e5@googlegroups.com>
 <56e8beb8-88e3-4664-b95a-2875fa831bff@googlegroups.com>
 <069aea77-ef73-4220-8119-027f687b1945@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <b5072a84-de94-46bd-83e3-064f08a62150@googlegroups.com>

On Tuesday, April 21, 2015 at 8:12:07 PM UTC-7, Rustom Mody wrote:
> On Wednesday, April 22, 2015 at 3:05:57 AM UTC+5:30, llanitedave wrote:
> > On Tuesday, April 21, 2015 at 10:49:34 AM UTC-7, Rustom Mody wrote:
> > > If only Galileo had had you as lawyer...
> > 
> > Well, I'd asked Giordano Bruno for a positive recommendation.  For some
> > inexplicable reason, he declined.
> 
> Maybe got too steamed-up pursuing high philosophy??

I think it had something to do with multiple inheritance.  Anyway, back in those days using indentation rather than braces was definitely considered heresy.


From rosuav at gmail.com  Wed Apr 22 00:43:01 2015
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Wed, 22 Apr 2015 14:43:01 +1000
Subject: docstringargs: Python module for setting up argparse
In-Reply-To: <CALwzid=Xsh3hBK+xeHwKo7Yi-XOmq8Nf+KfQ89gUCOesbmQN2A@mail.gmail.com>
References: <mailman.10.1429510817.31470.python-list@python.org>
 <5534a94d$0$12985$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <mailman.11.1429515960.31470.python-list@python.org>
 <87wq165lng.fsf@jester.gateway.sonic.net>
 <mailman.24.1429579171.31470.python-list@python.org>
 <87sibu5emi.fsf@jester.gateway.sonic.net>
 <mailman.25.1429589208.31470.python-list@python.org>
 <87oami5cdj.fsf@jester.gateway.sonic.net>
 <mailman.26.1429591195.31470.python-list@python.org>
 <87k2x65arq.fsf@jester.gateway.sonic.net>
 <mailman.27.1429593520.31470.python-list@python.org>
 <87bnii58m8.fsf@jester.gateway.sonic.net>
 <mailman.29.1429596228.31470.python-list@python.org>
 <877ft6568m.fsf@jester.gateway.sonic.net>
 <CAPTjJmqruwpmaRPcBpK67MWVB09jBAXh-79kELz_N1p31BOXow@mail.gmail.com>
 <CALwzid=Xsh3hBK+xeHwKo7Yi-XOmq8Nf+KfQ89gUCOesbmQN2A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmoXN3zr_yR94dYGgRiogNUG7C25SmS9GhBL2SDMnjMeXg@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Apr 22, 2015 at 2:00 PM, Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Tue, Apr 21, 2015 at 12:59 AM, Chris Angelico <rosuav at gmail.com> wrote:
>> plus, docstringargs
>> basically implies that all the function parameters are strings, so the
>> annotations are going to be rather less useful.
>
> Why is that? argparse supports non-string args, so why couldn't
> docstringargs as well?

Simplicity. There are a ton of things you _could_ do with argparse,
but if you want all that flexibility, you're welcome to use argparse
itself. Adding too much into the docstring (or annotation, even more
so) just clutters things. The one thing docstringargs does support of
non-string args is optional args that default to False and are
store_true (ie booleans).

ChrisA


From ben+python at benfinney.id.au  Wed Apr 22 01:52:41 2015
From: ben+python at benfinney.id.au (Ben Finney)
Date: Wed, 22 Apr 2015 15:52:41 +1000
Subject: python : timeit - Tool for measuring execution time
References: <CACT3xuWveN3-XyGp5F_CwTAATCm=efGgWeM+LCaHV-YseS6J8g@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <85vbgolnfa.fsf@benfinney.id.au>

Ganesh Pal <ganesh1pal at gmail.com> writes:

> Iam running the below command on Linux machine have Python 2.7
> installed ,

If it hasn't already been said: You should be targeting Python 3
wherever possible (with the ?python3? command).

Since you're not in this case ? and you are specifically testing Python
2 features ? you should get used to invoking Python 2 specifically, with
the ?python2? command.

> I was trying to figure out the speed difference between xrange and
> range functions.

This is the right way to do it. Thank you for actually measuring
specific performance!

> 10 loops, best of 3: 51.1 msec per loop
>
> Iam not able to understand what  why only 10 loops were run ?

What behaviour did you expect? You didn't ask for any particular number
of iterations, so you've allowed the tool to choose for you
<URL:https://docs.python.org/3/library/timeit.html#cmdoption-timeit-n>.

The documentation for the ?timeit? module specifies what happens when
you omit the ?number of iterations? parameter:

    If -n is not given, a suitable number of loops is calculated by
    trying successive powers of 10 until the total time is at least 0.2
    seconds.

> what does this mean and how does this work ?

I don't know what such a vague question means. Can you read the
documentation and ask some more specific question?

-- 
 \           ?Oh, I love your magazine. My favorite section is ?How To |
  `\          Increase Your Word Power?. That thing is really, really, |
_o__)                          really... good.? ?Homer, _The Simpsons_ |
Ben Finney



From dpalao.python at gmail.com  Wed Apr 22 03:28:13 2015
From: dpalao.python at gmail.com (David Palao)
Date: Wed, 22 Apr 2015 09:28:13 +0200
Subject: No subject
In-Reply-To: <CABgrTKSSsteRFGAbDyJAks2bkiSw04AOpaKU+OOBEU8WojJnSw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CABgrTKSSsteRFGAbDyJAks2bkiSw04AOpaKU+OOBEU8WojJnSw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAKUKWzm0AvixcQ7FDu+kvJzL0TXaKJKx4x=wTzTNNF=x0j7jjg@mail.gmail.com>

Hello,
I can definitely recommend this:
http://norvig.com/21-days.html
Of course, more precise advice would be possible if you provide more
details of what is your background, what you know, and so on.

Best

2015-04-20 17:15 GMT+02:00 Chandra Prashad mishra <prasadchandra18 at gmail.com>:
> sir how can i improve my basic knowledge about programming.....can u give me
> some hint...just give me way
>
> --
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>


From wxjmfauth at gmail.com  Wed Apr 22 04:16:59 2015
From: wxjmfauth at gmail.com (wxjmfauth at gmail.com)
Date: Wed, 22 Apr 2015 01:16:59 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [RELEASED] Python 3.5.0a4 is now available
In-Reply-To: <2f1e2416-0a89-4ce6-acc3-e75fd7a5fbf6@googlegroups.com>
References: <mailman.12.1429517764.31470.python-list@python.org>
 <2f1e2416-0a89-4ce6-acc3-e75fd7a5fbf6@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <39b18ae1-3c11-48ae-9316-4c60b3e2fd0c@googlegroups.com>

Le mardi 21 avril 2015 08:29:50 UTC+2, wxjm... at gmail.com a ?crit?:
> Le lundi 20 avril 2015 10:16:17 UTC+2, Larry Hastings a ?crit?:
> > On behalf of the Python development community and the Python 3.5
> >         release team, I'm thrilled to announce the availability of
> >         Python 3.5.0a4.?? Python 3.5.0a4 is the fourth and alpha release
> >         of Python 3.5, which will be the next major release of Python.?
> >         Python 3.5 is still under development, and is not yet complete.
> > 
> >         
> > 
> >         This is a preview release, and its use is not recommended for
> >         production settings.
> > 
> >         
> > 
> >         The next release of Python 3.5 will be 3.5.0b1, the first beta
> >         release.? Python 3.5 will enter "feature freeze" at this time;
> >         no new features will be added to 3.5 after this point.? Python
> >         3.5.0b1 is scheduled to be released May 22, 2015.
> > 
> >         
> > 
> >         Three important notes for Windows users about Python 3.5.0a4:
> > 
> >         
> >           If you have previously installed Python 3.5.0a1, you may
> >             need to manually uninstall it before installing Python
> >             3.5.0a4 (issue23612).
> >           If installing Python 3.5.0a4 as a non-privileged user, you
> >             may need to escalate to administrator privileges to install
> >             an update to your C runtime libraries.
> >           There is now a third type of Windows installer for Python
> >             3.5.? In addition to the conventional installer and the
> >             web-based installer, Python 3.5 now has an embeddable
> >             installer designed to be run as part of a larger
> >             application's installer for apps using or extending Python.
> > 
> >           
> >         
> >         
> > 
> >         You can find Python 3.5.0a4 here:
> > 
> >         https://www.python.org/downloads/release/python-350a4/
> > 
> >         
> >         Happy hacking,
> 
> "European" Windows 7 boxes.
> Impossible to install, does not install.
> What's going on? No idea.
> 
> At least, I tried.

I tried again. More or less all variants (system wide,
per user, ...).
No luck. Blackbox.


From edmondo.giovannozzi at gmail.com  Wed Apr 22 05:31:09 2015
From: edmondo.giovannozzi at gmail.com (edmondo.giovannozzi at gmail.com)
Date: Wed, 22 Apr 2015 02:31:09 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Python and fortran Interface suggestion
In-Reply-To: <mailman.412.1429475192.12925.python-list@python.org>
References: <eb8e5e64-b46b-4315-a088-563a578a9bc6@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.407.1429456993.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <66af8e33-b0c0-400f-a89e-bc6759a93c41@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.412.1429475192.12925.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <d823a086-a1db-47a3-9577-1ee904f6546d@googlegroups.com>

Il giorno domenica 19 aprile 2015 22:26:58 UTC+2, Dave Angel ha scritto:
> On 04/19/2015 11:56 AM, pauld11718 wrote:
> > I shall provide with further details....
> >
> > Its about Mathematical modelling of a system. Fortran does one part and python does the other part (which I am suppose to provide).
> > For a time interval tn --> t_n+1, fortran code generates some values, for which my python code accepts it as an input. It integrates some data for the same time step tn --> tn+1 and fortran computes based on this for the next time step t_n+1 --> t_n+2......and this is how loop continues.
> >
> > Its the fortran code calling my Python executable at all the time interval.
> 
> Then you'd better find out how it's calling your executable.  Calling it 
> is very different than starting it.  The whole import x, y,z is done 
> only upon initial startup of the python code.  You can then call the 
> Python code as many times as you like without incurring that overhead again.
> 
> Naturally, if the guy who designed the Fortran code didn't think the 
> same way, and is unavailable for further tweaking, you've got a problem.
> 
> >
> > So,
> > 1. Is it about rebuilding every thing using cx_freeze kind of stuff in windows?
> 
> Don't worry about how you get installed until after you figure out how 
> you're going to get those calls and data back and forth between the 
> Fortran code and your own.
> 
> >
> > 2. As interfacing between fortran/python is via .dat file, so on every time-step python executable is called it shall open()/close() .dat file. This along with all those
> > from **** import *'s
> > are unnecessary.
> 
> Have you got specs on the whole dat file thing?  How will you know it's 
> time to examine the file again?  As long as you get notified through 
> some other mechanism, there's no problem in both programs having an open 
> handle on the shared file.
> 
> For that matter, the notification can be implicit in the file as well.
> 
> But is there a designer behind this, or is the program intending to deal 
> with something else and you're just trying to sneak in the back door?
> 
> 
> >
> > 3. I dont have access to fortran code. I shall provide the python executable only, which will take input from .dat file and write to another .dat file. So, what is your suggestion regarding socket/pipe and python installation on RAM? I have no idea with those.
> >
> 
> Not much point in opening a pipe if the other end isn't going to be 
> opened by the Fortran code.
> 
> > Isn't there a better way to handle such issues?
> >
> 
> Sure, there are lots of ways.  But if the Fortran code is a closed book, 
> you'll have to find out how it was designed, and do all the adapting at 
> your end.
> 
> If it becomes open again, then you have the choice between having one of 
> your languages call functions in the other (ie. single process), having 
> some mechanism (like queues, or sockets) between two separately started 
> processes, and having one program launch the other repeatedly.  That 
> last is probably the least performant choice.
> 
> If you google "python Fortran" you'll get lots of hits.  You could start 
> reading to see what your choices are.  But if the Fortran designer has 
> left the room, you'll be stuck with whatever he put together.
> 
> And chances are very high that you'll need to develop, and certainly 
> test, some parts of the project on the Windows machine, and particularly 
> with the Windows C/Fortran compilers.
> 
> 
> -- 
> DaveA

Generally I have used f2py to link Fortran subroutines to Python, then python will call this Fortran subroutines. Who is calculating what is not really important, except that Python is the driver. You can of course also call a python function from Fortran (well look at the documentation of f2py).


When you are saying that you don't have access to the Fortran program what that does mean?
Somebody else is developing it or it is an already written full Fortran program?
If the latter I will always use Python as a driver that prepare files for the Fortran program then read back the data make some elaboration and prepare the data for the following step.

But if somebody else is writing the Fortran part or have access to the source tell him to give you some some subroutines that you will call from Python.
  
 


From cfkaran2 at gmail.com  Wed Apr 22 06:07:25 2015
From: cfkaran2 at gmail.com (Cem Karan)
Date: Wed, 22 Apr 2015 06:07:25 -0400
Subject: Diff between object graphs?
Message-ID: <78DAD20A-71C4-4EE9-AA85-935822A470AF@gmail.com>

Hi all, I need some help.  I'm working on a simple event-based simulator for my dissertation research. The simulator has state information that I want to analyze as a post-simulation step, so I currently save (pickle) the entire simulator every time an event occurs; this lets me analyze the simulation at any moment in time, and ask questions that I haven't thought of yet.  The problem is that pickling this amount of data is both time-consuming and a space hog.  This is true even when using bz2.open() to create a compressed file on the fly.  

This leaves me with two choices; first, pick the data I want to save, and second, find a way of generating diffs between object graphs.  Since I don't yet know all the questions I want to ask, I don't want to throw away information prematurely, which is why I would prefer to avoid scenario 1.  

So that brings up possibility two; generating diffs between object graphs.  I've searched around in the standard library and on pypi, but I haven't yet found a library that does what I want.  Does anyone know of something that does?

Basically, I want something with the following ability:

Object_graph_2 - Object_graph_1 = diff_2_1
Object_graph_1 + diff_2_1 = Object_graph_2

The object graphs are already pickleable, and the diffs must be, or this won't work.  I can use deepcopy to ensure the two object graphs are completely separate, so the diffing engine doesn't need to worry about that part.

Anyone know of such a thing?

Thanks,
Cem Karan

From rustompmody at gmail.com  Wed Apr 22 07:37:32 2015
From: rustompmody at gmail.com (Rustom Mody)
Date: Wed, 22 Apr 2015 04:37:32 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: New to Python - block grouping (spaces)
In-Reply-To: <b5072a84-de94-46bd-83e3-064f08a62150@googlegroups.com>
References: <9fc57fc9-0399-4ff3-882a-d041f02827d8@googlegroups.com>
 <6580b5d5-92f5-4bfa-b1d0-889c69fe82bb@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.374.1429285961.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <mgrcb5$sn2$1@reader1.panix.com> <Y3bYw.302660$ms.24839@fx30.am4>
 <mailman.388.1429323788.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <7tMYw.252071$SO1.39320@fx43.am4>
 <mailman.405.1429456511.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <7413a8e7-b580-4b2f-84bc-dd13da2d36ba@googlegroups.com>
 <5533eb85$0$12992$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <16d59891-6e28-4256-870a-903bb75aa953@googlegroups.com>
 <09bdfda4-9154-460b-bc54-f227f1c1fd90@googlegroups.com>
 <80574d29-7db6-4f67-b667-6cdc980b77e5@googlegroups.com>
 <56e8beb8-88e3-4664-b95a-2875fa831bff@googlegroups.com>
 <069aea77-ef73-4220-8119-027f687b1945@googlegroups.com>
 <b5072a84-de94-46bd-83e3-064f08a62150@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <2817b1c8-d86d-4278-a7b8-ecfb56942dcf@googlegroups.com>

On Wednesday, April 22, 2015 at 9:35:34 AM UTC+5:30, llanitedave wrote:
> On Tuesday, April 21, 2015 at 8:12:07 PM UTC-7, Rustom Mody wrote:
> > On Wednesday, April 22, 2015 at 3:05:57 AM UTC+5:30, llanitedave wrote:
> > > On Tuesday, April 21, 2015 at 10:49:34 AM UTC-7, Rustom Mody wrote:
> > > > If only Galileo had had you as lawyer...
> > > 
> > > Well, I'd asked Giordano Bruno for a positive recommendation.  For some
> > > inexplicable reason, he declined.
> > 
> > Maybe got too steamed-up pursuing high philosophy??
> 
> I think it had something to do with multiple inheritance.  Anyway, back in those days using indentation rather than braces was definitely considered heresy.

Along with braces, I hear the PEC? is preparing other instruments of pleasure like the rack for you and me for persisting in profanities in these divine precincts.
-----------------
?Python Ecumenical Council


From breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk  Wed Apr 22 08:05:47 2015
From: breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk (Mark Lawrence)
Date: Wed, 22 Apr 2015 13:05:47 +0100
Subject: New to Python - block grouping (spaces)
In-Reply-To: <2817b1c8-d86d-4278-a7b8-ecfb56942dcf@googlegroups.com>
References: <9fc57fc9-0399-4ff3-882a-d041f02827d8@googlegroups.com>
 <6580b5d5-92f5-4bfa-b1d0-889c69fe82bb@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.374.1429285961.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <mgrcb5$sn2$1@reader1.panix.com> <Y3bYw.302660$ms.24839@fx30.am4>
 <mailman.388.1429323788.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <7tMYw.252071$SO1.39320@fx43.am4>
 <mailman.405.1429456511.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <7413a8e7-b580-4b2f-84bc-dd13da2d36ba@googlegroups.com>
 <5533eb85$0$12992$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <16d59891-6e28-4256-870a-903bb75aa953@googlegroups.com>
 <09bdfda4-9154-460b-bc54-f227f1c1fd90@googlegroups.com>
 <80574d29-7db6-4f67-b667-6cdc980b77e5@googlegroups.com>
 <56e8beb8-88e3-4664-b95a-2875fa831bff@googlegroups.com>
 <069aea77-ef73-4220-8119-027f687b1945@googlegroups.com>
 <b5072a84-de94-46bd-83e3-064f08a62150@googlegroups.com>
 <2817b1c8-d86d-4278-a7b8-ecfb56942dcf@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <mh82qt$g90$1@ger.gmane.org>

On 22/04/2015 12:37, Rustom Mody wrote:
> On Wednesday, April 22, 2015 at 9:35:34 AM UTC+5:30, llanitedave wrote:
>> On Tuesday, April 21, 2015 at 8:12:07 PM UTC-7, Rustom Mody wrote:
>>> On Wednesday, April 22, 2015 at 3:05:57 AM UTC+5:30, llanitedave wrote:
>>>> On Tuesday, April 21, 2015 at 10:49:34 AM UTC-7, Rustom Mody wrote:
>>>>> If only Galileo had had you as lawyer...
>>>>
>>>> Well, I'd asked Giordano Bruno for a positive recommendation.  For some
>>>> inexplicable reason, he declined.
>>>
>>> Maybe got too steamed-up pursuing high philosophy??
>>
>> I think it had something to do with multiple inheritance.  Anyway, back in those days using indentation rather than braces was definitely considered heresy.
>
> Along with braces, I hear the PEC? is preparing other instruments of pleasure like the rack for you and me for persisting in profanities in these divine precincts.
> -----------------
> ?Python Ecumenical Council
>

If the PEC were going to use any weapon of torture it would be the Comfy 
Chair, unless somebody borrowed the time machine and destroyed it before 
it could be put to use.

-- 
My fellow Pythonistas, ask not what our language can do for you, ask
what you can do for our language.

Mark Lawrence



From rustompmody at gmail.com  Wed Apr 22 08:11:34 2015
From: rustompmody at gmail.com (Rustom Mody)
Date: Wed, 22 Apr 2015 05:11:34 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Diff between object graphs?
In-Reply-To: <mailman.64.1429699022.31470.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.64.1429699022.31470.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <303937e9-af00-4c7a-bfe7-c95690c6f8bc@googlegroups.com>

On Wednesday, April 22, 2015 at 4:07:35 PM UTC+5:30, Cem Karan wrote:
> Hi all, I need some help.  I'm working on a simple event-based simulator for my dissertation research. The simulator has state information that I want to analyze as a post-simulation step, so I currently save (pickle) the entire simulator every time an event occurs; this lets me analyze the simulation at any moment in time, and ask questions that I haven't thought of yet.  The problem is that pickling this amount of data is both time-consuming and a space hog.  This is true even when using bz2.open() to create a compressed file on the fly.  

No answer to your questions...
But you do know that bzip is rather worse than gzip in time 
and not really so much better in space dont you?? 
http://tukaani.org/lzma/benchmarks.html


From rustompmody at gmail.com  Wed Apr 22 08:21:47 2015
From: rustompmody at gmail.com (Rustom Mody)
Date: Wed, 22 Apr 2015 05:21:47 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [RELEASED] Python 3.5.0a4 is now available
In-Reply-To: <39b18ae1-3c11-48ae-9316-4c60b3e2fd0c@googlegroups.com>
References: <mailman.12.1429517764.31470.python-list@python.org>
 <2f1e2416-0a89-4ce6-acc3-e75fd7a5fbf6@googlegroups.com>
 <39b18ae1-3c11-48ae-9316-4c60b3e2fd0c@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <c2ee0823-d597-442a-98aa-876857883b50@googlegroups.com>

On Wednesday, April 22, 2015 at 1:47:12 PM UTC+5:30, wxjm... at gmail.com wrote:
> Le mardi 21 avril 2015 08:29:50 UTC+2, wxjm... at gmail.com a ?crit?:
> > Le lundi 20 avril 2015 10:16:17 UTC+2, Larry Hastings a ?crit?:
> > > On behalf of the Python development community and the Python 3.5
> > >         release team, I'm thrilled to announce the availability of
> > >         Python 3.5.0a4.?? Python 3.5.0a4 is the fourth and alpha release
> > >         of Python 3.5, which will be the next major release of Python.?
> > >         Python 3.5 is still under development, and is not yet complete.
> > > 
> > >         
> > > 
> > >         This is a preview release, and its use is not recommended for
> > >         production settings.
> > > 
> > >         
> > > 
> > >         The next release of Python 3.5 will be 3.5.0b1, the first beta
> > >         release.? Python 3.5 will enter "feature freeze" at this time;
> > >         no new features will be added to 3.5 after this point.? Python
> > >         3.5.0b1 is scheduled to be released May 22, 2015.
> > > 
> > >         
> > > 
> > >         Three important notes for Windows users about Python 3.5.0a4:
> > > 
> > >         
> > >           If you have previously installed Python 3.5.0a1, you may
> > >             need to manually uninstall it before installing Python
> > >             3.5.0a4 (issue23612).
> > >           If installing Python 3.5.0a4 as a non-privileged user, you
> > >             may need to escalate to administrator privileges to install
> > >             an update to your C runtime libraries.
> > >           There is now a third type of Windows installer for Python
> > >             3.5.? In addition to the conventional installer and the
> > >             web-based installer, Python 3.5 now has an embeddable
> > >             installer designed to be run as part of a larger
> > >             application's installer for apps using or extending Python.
> > > 
> > >           
> > >         
> > >         
> > > 
> > >         You can find Python 3.5.0a4 here:
> > > 
> > >         https://www.python.org/downloads/release/python-350a4/
> > > 
> > >         
> > >         Happy hacking,
> > 
> > "European" Windows 7 boxes.
> > Impossible to install, does not install.
> > What's going on? No idea.
> > 
> > At least, I tried.
> 
> I tried again. More or less all variants (system wide,
> per user, ...).
> No luck. Blackbox.

Hey Jmf!

If you want to complain thats ok... its a free world I guess...

If however you want someone to help you with installing, you need to give
more info:

- What you downloaded
- What you tried
- Your system/OS details
- What went wrong eg backtraces/error messages at console
- etc

[Not me since I am not messing with 3.5 ATM nor do I have easy access to a
windows box]


From cfkaran2 at gmail.com  Wed Apr 22 08:34:15 2015
From: cfkaran2 at gmail.com (CFK)
Date: Wed, 22 Apr 2015 08:34:15 -0400
Subject: Diff between object graphs?
In-Reply-To: <303937e9-af00-4c7a-bfe7-c95690c6f8bc@googlegroups.com>
References: <mailman.64.1429699022.31470.python-list@python.org>
 <303937e9-af00-4c7a-bfe7-c95690c6f8bc@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <CAENTz_VRWeSSnDJ=vh6dTZRhWLYns_VpZkhkSM1ciQxvAG3T5Q@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Apr 22, 2015 at 8:11 AM, Rustom Mody <rustompmody at gmail.com> wrote:

> On Wednesday, April 22, 2015 at 4:07:35 PM UTC+5:30, Cem Karan wrote:
> > Hi all, I need some help.  I'm working on a simple event-based simulator
> for my dissertation research. The simulator has state information that I
> want to analyze as a post-simulation step, so I currently save (pickle) the
> entire simulator every time an event occurs; this lets me analyze the
> simulation at any moment in time, and ask questions that I haven't thought
> of yet.  The problem is that pickling this amount of data is both
> time-consuming and a space hog.  This is true even when using bz2.open() to
> create a compressed file on the fly.
>
> No answer to your questions...
> But you do know that bzip is rather worse than gzip in time
> and not really so much better in space dont you??
> http://tukaani.org/lzma/benchmarks.html
>

I had no idea, I'll try my tests using gzip as well, just to see.

That said, I could still use the diff between object graphs; saving less
state is definitely going to be a speed/space improvement over saving
everything!

Thanks,
Cem Karan
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/attachments/20150422/abdf1aee/attachment.html>

From __peter__ at web.de  Wed Apr 22 08:53:38 2015
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Wed, 22 Apr 2015 14:53:38 +0200
Subject: Diff between object graphs?
References: <78DAD20A-71C4-4EE9-AA85-935822A470AF@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <mh85kk$5g1$1@ger.gmane.org>

Cem Karan wrote:

> Hi all, I need some help.  I'm working on a simple event-based simulator
> for my dissertation research. The simulator has state information that I
> want to analyze as a post-simulation step, so I currently save (pickle)
> the entire simulator every time an event occurs; this lets me analyze the
> simulation at any moment in time, and ask questions that I haven't thought
> of yet.  The problem is that pickling this amount of data is both
> time-consuming and a space hog.  This is true even when using bz2.open()
> to create a compressed file on the fly.
> 
> This leaves me with two choices; first, pick the data I want to save, and
> second, find a way of generating diffs between object graphs.  Since I
> don't yet know all the questions I want to ask, I don't want to throw away
> information prematurely, which is why I would prefer to avoid scenario 1.
> 
> So that brings up possibility two; generating diffs between object graphs.
>  I've searched around in the standard library and on pypi, but I haven't
> yet found a library that does what I want.  Does anyone know of something
> that does?
> 
> Basically, I want something with the following ability:
> 
> Object_graph_2 - Object_graph_1 = diff_2_1
> Object_graph_1 + diff_2_1 = Object_graph_2
> 
> The object graphs are already pickleable, and the diffs must be, or this
> won't work.  I can use deepcopy to ensure the two object graphs are
> completely separate, so the diffing engine doesn't need to worry about
> that part.
> 
> Anyone know of such a thing?

A poor man's approach:

Do not compress the pickled data, check it into version control. Getting the 
n-th state then becomes checking out the n-th revision of the file.

I have no idea how much space you save that way, but it's simple enough to 
give it a try.


Another slightly more involved idea:

Make the events pickleable, and save the simulator only for every 100th (for 
example) event. To restore the 7531th state load pickle 7500 and apply 
events 7501 to 7531.



From torriem at gmail.com  Wed Apr 22 09:07:36 2015
From: torriem at gmail.com (Michael Torrie)
Date: Wed, 22 Apr 2015 07:07:36 -0600
Subject: python : timeit - Tool for measuring execution time
In-Reply-To: <CACT3xuWveN3-XyGp5F_CwTAATCm=efGgWeM+LCaHV-YseS6J8g@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CACT3xuWveN3-XyGp5F_CwTAATCm=efGgWeM+LCaHV-YseS6J8g@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <55379D18.8050609@gmail.com>

On 04/21/2015 09:31 PM, Ganesh Pal wrote:
> Iam not able to understand what  why only 10 loops were run ? what
> does this mean and how  does this work ?

I have a hunch you're mistakenly thinking that Python is only running
through ten iterations of your for i in range(1000000) loop.  This is
not the case.  The entire thing is running (all 1000000 iterations of
your loop), but is run ten times, as that is the default for timeit
unless you specify that you want to run it more times.  Hope this helps.

Basically timeit is doing something like this:

def mycode():
    for i in range(1000000):
        pass

for x in range(10):
     mycode()

And then collecting timing statistics on the ten passes.


From breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk  Wed Apr 22 09:07:59 2015
From: breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk (Mark Lawrence)
Date: Wed, 22 Apr 2015 14:07:59 +0100
Subject: [RELEASED] Python 3.5.0a4 is now available
In-Reply-To: <c2ee0823-d597-442a-98aa-876857883b50@googlegroups.com>
References: <mailman.12.1429517764.31470.python-list@python.org>
 <2f1e2416-0a89-4ce6-acc3-e75fd7a5fbf6@googlegroups.com>
 <39b18ae1-3c11-48ae-9316-4c60b3e2fd0c@googlegroups.com>
 <c2ee0823-d597-442a-98aa-876857883b50@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <mh86fh$g83$1@ger.gmane.org>

On 22/04/2015 13:21, Rustom Mody wrote:
>
> Hey Jmf!
>
> If you want to complain thats ok... its a free world I guess...
>
> If however you want someone to help you with installing, you need to give
> more info:
>
> - What you downloaded
> - What you tried
> - Your system/OS details
> - What went wrong eg backtraces/error messages at console
> - etc
>
> [Not me since I am not messing with 3.5 ATM nor do I have easy access to a
> windows box]
>

Please don't feed the RUE, you're wasting everybody's time.

-- 
My fellow Pythonistas, ask not what our language can do for you, ask
what you can do for our language.

Mark Lawrence



From wxjmfauth at gmail.com  Wed Apr 22 10:10:46 2015
From: wxjmfauth at gmail.com (wxjmfauth at gmail.com)
Date: Wed, 22 Apr 2015 07:10:46 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [RELEASED] Python 3.5.0a4 is now available
In-Reply-To: <c2ee0823-d597-442a-98aa-876857883b50@googlegroups.com>
References: <mailman.12.1429517764.31470.python-list@python.org>
 <2f1e2416-0a89-4ce6-acc3-e75fd7a5fbf6@googlegroups.com>
 <39b18ae1-3c11-48ae-9316-4c60b3e2fd0c@googlegroups.com>
 <c2ee0823-d597-442a-98aa-876857883b50@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <d00c4ccf-70ce-4a1a-8feb-2c0324142dd2@googlegroups.com>

Le mercredi 22 avril 2015 14:21:59 UTC+2, Rustom Mody a ?crit?:
> On Wednesday, April 22, 2015 at 1:47:12 PM UTC+5:30, wxjm... at gmail.com wrote:
> > Le mardi 21 avril 2015 08:29:50 UTC+2, wxjm... at gmail.com a ?crit?:
> > > Le lundi 20 avril 2015 10:16:17 UTC+2, Larry Hastings a ?crit?:
> > > > On behalf of the Python development community and the Python 3.5
> > > >         release team, I'm thrilled to announce the availability of
> > > >         Python 3.5.0a4.?? Python 3.5.0a4 is the fourth and alpha release
> > > >         of Python 3.5, which will be the next major release of Python.?
> > > >         Python 3.5 is still under development, and is not yet complete.
> > > > 
> > > >         
> > > > 
> > > >         This is a preview release, and its use is not recommended for
> > > >         production settings.
> > > > 
> > > >         
> > > > 
> > > >         The next release of Python 3.5 will be 3.5.0b1, the first beta
> > > >         release.? Python 3.5 will enter "feature freeze" at this time;
> > > >         no new features will be added to 3.5 after this point.? Python
> > > >         3.5.0b1 is scheduled to be released May 22, 2015.
> > > > 
> > > >         
> > > > 
> > > >         Three important notes for Windows users about Python 3.5.0a4:
> > > > 
> > > >         
> > > >           If you have previously installed Python 3.5.0a1, you may
> > > >             need to manually uninstall it before installing Python
> > > >             3.5.0a4 (issue23612).
> > > >           If installing Python 3.5.0a4 as a non-privileged user, you
> > > >             may need to escalate to administrator privileges to install
> > > >             an update to your C runtime libraries.
> > > >           There is now a third type of Windows installer for Python
> > > >             3.5.? In addition to the conventional installer and the
> > > >             web-based installer, Python 3.5 now has an embeddable
> > > >             installer designed to be run as part of a larger
> > > >             application's installer for apps using or extending Python.
> > > > 
> > > >           
> > > >         
> > > >         
> > > > 
> > > >         You can find Python 3.5.0a4 here:
> > > > 
> > > >         https://www.python.org/downloads/release/python-350a4/
> > > > 
> > > >         
> > > >         Happy hacking,
> > > 
> > > "European" Windows 7 boxes.
> > > Impossible to install, does not install.
> > > What's going on? No idea.
> > > 
> > > At least, I tried.
> > 
> > I tried again. More or less all variants (system wide,
> > per user, ...).
> > No luck. Blackbox.
> 
> Hey Jmf!
> 
> If you want to complain thats ok... its a free world I guess...
> 
> If however you want someone to help you with installing, you need to give
> more info:
> 
> - What you downloaded
> - What you tried
> - Your system/OS details
> - What went wrong eg backtraces/error messages at console
> - etc
> 
> [Not me since I am not messing with 3.5 ATM nor do I have easy access to a
> windows box]

---------

- What you downloaded
python-3.5.0a4.exe (x86). This is the correct one.


- What you tried
Intalling all variants, per user, system wide as administator.


- Your system/OS details
Win 7.0 pro. I deliberatly pointed "European" Windows, because
I know by experience sometimes us-prepared software
are using "localized" dll (and other stuff)  which may lead to a
non woking app. This is not specific to Python and if
I recall correctly this already happen once, I do not
remember exactly the py version, it was.


- What went wrong eg backtraces/error messages at console
If I only kwow! Nothing visible.

It should be noted the installer windows is so small that
the install path is not completely visible!

To remove an installation, I manually and blindly deleted Python stuff
in c:\Users\<user_name>\... The "unsinstaller" is not "installed"
and not available.


I also tried to unpack the "embed" variant which is in my
understanding some kind of a portable Python, manually added
the runtime (the trio vcruntime140.dll, ...) in the installed dir.
Impossible to launch python.exe. If that matters.

I also tried the "alpha3/a3", I downloaded once. No more luck.

- etc 
Hard job to be a guinea pig.

To summarize: total black box.




From p_s_d_a_s_i_l_v_a_ns at netcabo.pt  Wed Apr 22 10:37:38 2015
From: p_s_d_a_s_i_l_v_a_ns at netcabo.pt (Paulo da Silva)
Date: Wed, 22 Apr 2015 15:37:38 +0100
Subject: multiprocessing module and matplotlib.pyplot/PdfPages
References: <mh4bph$t8e$1@speranza.aioe.org>
Message-ID: <mh8bnf$dmr$1@speranza.aioe.org>

On 21-04-2015 03:14, Paulo da Silva wrote:
> I have program that generates about 100 relatively complex graphics and
> writes then to a pdf book.
> It takes a while!
> Is there any possibility of using multiprocessing to build the graphics
> and then use several calls to savefig(), i.e. some kind of graphic's
> objects?
> 
> Thanks for any help/comments.
> 

After all kind answers ...

I tried os.fork.
Besides some problems with a also produced csv file, which I solved
using a pipe and making the parent task to do all the writes, things are
working :-)

Using 16 tasks (my cpu supports 8) and 70 graphics elapsed time passed
from 1m40s to 25s plus ~5s to convert to a pdf book. Not bad :-) It
could be better however. BTW, using 8 tasks takes 30s.

For more graphics ... the result should be much worser. At the end of
the 70 graphics the cpu already became to heat and the clock freq reduced.

Thanks to all who responded.



From ian.g.kelly at gmail.com  Wed Apr 22 11:33:17 2015
From: ian.g.kelly at gmail.com (Ian Kelly)
Date: Wed, 22 Apr 2015 09:33:17 -0600
Subject: python : timeit - Tool for measuring execution time
In-Reply-To: <55379D18.8050609@gmail.com>
References: <CACT3xuWveN3-XyGp5F_CwTAATCm=efGgWeM+LCaHV-YseS6J8g@mail.gmail.com>
 <55379D18.8050609@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CALwzidkGMKmLkPoCututn1QkpX+C2Lb=-o7nd6T-+StCc2pX5w@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Apr 22, 2015 at 7:07 AM, Michael Torrie <torriem at gmail.com> wrote:
> I have a hunch you're mistakenly thinking that Python is only running
> through ten iterations of your for i in range(1000000) loop.  This is
> not the case.  The entire thing is running (all 1000000 iterations of
> your loop), but is run ten times, as that is the default for timeit
> unless you specify that you want to run it more times.  Hope this helps.

Actually, it's smarter than that. When running timeit from the command
line, the default is to scale the number of loops according to the
time taken. It starts at 10 and tries incremental powers of 10 until
the total time is at least 0.2 seconds.


From subhabrata.banerji at gmail.com  Wed Apr 22 12:13:26 2015
From: subhabrata.banerji at gmail.com (subhabrata.banerji at gmail.com)
Date: Wed, 22 Apr 2015 09:13:26 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Opening Multiple files at one time
In-Reply-To: <8b392c2f-b813-44f7-8376-a794314d398c@googlegroups.com>
References: <8b392c2f-b813-44f7-8376-a794314d398c@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4860af52-df73-4926-826e-081b01f255c9@googlegroups.com>

On Monday, April 20, 2015 at 5:30:15 PM UTC+5:30, subhabrat... at gmail.com wrote:
> Dear Group,
> 
> I am trying to open multiple files at one time. 
> I am trying to do it as,
> 
>  for item in  [ "one", "two", "three" ]:
>        f = open (item + "world.txt", "w")
>        f.close()
> 
> This is fine. But I was looking if I do not know the number of
> text files I would create beforehand, so not trying xrange option
> also. 
> 
> And if in every run of the code if the name of the text files have
> to created on its own. 
> 
> Is there a solution for this? 
> 
> If anybody may please suggest. 
> 
> Regards,
> Subhabrata Banerjee.

Surely, this problem is more or less fixed. But I experiment with all answers everytime to get better angles.


From subhabrata.banerji at gmail.com  Wed Apr 22 12:18:30 2015
From: subhabrata.banerji at gmail.com (subhabrata.banerji at gmail.com)
Date: Wed, 22 Apr 2015 09:18:30 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: A question on the creation of list of lists
Message-ID: <8942f4d2-9b6e-45e3-a858-83977d187333@googlegroups.com>

Dear Group,

I am trying to open a bunch of files from a directory and trying to put the results in list of lists that is to say,

that is to say, 
I have a list of file names of a directory, I want to read each one of them. 
After reading each one of them, I want to put the results of each file in a list. 
These lists would again be inserted to create a list of lists.

to do this I am trying to write it as follows:

list_of_files = glob.glob('C:\Python27\*.*')
    print list_of_files
    list1=[]
    list2=[]
    list_N=[list1,list2]
    for i,j in zip(list_of_files,list_N):
        print i,j
        x1=open(i,"r").read()
        x2=j.append(x1)
    all_sent=list_N
    print all_sent

Am I doing anything wrong? If any one may kindly suggest?
Is there any smarter way to do it? I am using Python2.7+
on MS-Windows 7 Professional Edition. 
Apology for any indentation error. 

Regards,
Subhabrata Banerjee.








From sandyethadka at gmail.com  Wed Apr 22 12:26:11 2015
From: sandyethadka at gmail.com (sandyethadka at gmail.com)
Date: Wed, 22 Apr 2015 09:26:11 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: How to receive a data file of unknown length using a python
 socket?
In-Reply-To: <831d97bc-2323-42c3-9aeb-d62e4010c882@m11g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
References: <831d97bc-2323-42c3-9aeb-d62e4010c882@m11g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <348300f0-58df-491a-bfd8-6202404d56d3@googlegroups.com>

On Sunday, 19 July 2009 03:03:48 UTC+5:30, twgray  wrote:
> I am attempting to send a jpeg image file created on an embedded
> device over a wifi socket to a Python client running on a Linux pc
> (Ubuntu).  All works well, except I don't know, on the pc client side,
> what the file size is?  The following is a snippet:
> 
> [code]
>         f = open("frame.jpg",mode = 'wb')
>        while True:
>             data = self.s.recv(MAXPACKETLEN)
>             if len(data) == 0:
>                 break
>             recvd += len(data)
>             f.write(data)
>         f.close()
> [end]
> 
> It appears to be locking up in  'data=self.s.recv(MAXPACKETLEN)' on
> the final packet, which will always be less than MAXPACKETLEN.
> 
> I guess my question is, how do I detect end of data on the client side?



One way would be to send file size at the beginning. Like you can make first s.send(size) to only contain size in string converted mode by padding the integer size value to be equal to BufferSize. You can maybe use .rjust() method of string for this purpose. Then use this data to set the no of times you gotta do s.recv(BufferSize) in receiving end....Hope this helps.


From ckaynor at zindagigames.com  Wed Apr 22 12:33:46 2015
From: ckaynor at zindagigames.com (Chris Kaynor)
Date: Wed, 22 Apr 2015 09:33:46 -0700
Subject: A question on the creation of list of lists
In-Reply-To: <8942f4d2-9b6e-45e3-a858-83977d187333@googlegroups.com>
References: <8942f4d2-9b6e-45e3-a858-83977d187333@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <CALvWhxvF_zxKWj7aqYeQDZS79Mso5-qPzN9E-R4wrCRNPk2AJQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Apr 22, 2015 at 9:18 AM, <subhabrata.banerji at gmail.com> wrote:

> Dear Group,
>
> I am trying to open a bunch of files from a directory and trying to put
> the results in list of lists that is to say,
>
> that is to say,
> I have a list of file names of a directory, I want to read each one of
> them.
> After reading each one of them, I want to put the results of each file in
> a list.
> These lists would again be inserted to create a list of lists.
>
> to do this I am trying to write it as follows:
>
> list_of_files = glob.glob('C:\Python27\*.*')
> print list_of_files
> list1=[]
> list2=[]
> list_N=[list1,list2]
> for i,j in zip(list_of_files,list_N):
>     print i,j
>     x1=open(i,"r").read()
>     x2=j.append(x1)
> all_sent=list_N
> print all_sent
>

In the original e-mail, it looked like you had an indentation error, which
I think I corrected correctly, though you may have been missing a line. A
few comments with your code:
First, as you only create two lists, it would only ever iterate twice, and
would ignore the rest of the files.
Secondly, you only ever append a single item to the lists.
Third, list.append always returns None, so the line "x2 = j.append(x1)"
will always result in x2 being None. Not that it matters much as you never
use x2 in the code.

Presuming that you actually are doing something in your real code that
would be producing lists for each file dynamically, rather than just the
string contents of the file, you probably should create the child lists in
the loop, rather than outside. Something like:

results = [] # Create the results list for all files.
for path in glob.glob('C:\Python27\*.*'):
    fileResult = [] # Create the result for the file.
    with open(path, 'r') as myFile: # Note that this helps ensure the file
is closed, even in more complicated cases, and in all implementations. It
is not needed in such a simple case for CPython only, however.
        fileResult.append(myFile.read()) # Or whatever real processing you
want to do. file.read() returns a single string, and fileResult in this
example only ever has a single item, so it is a somewhat useless layer of
abstraction.
    results.append(fileResult) # Add the file's result into the full list
of results.

Note that, depending on the processing you are doing, and on what files,
you may want to avoid reading all files into memory at once, and instead
process them incrementally, preferably avoiding even reading all of a
single file. This is particularly easy if processing the file by line.


> Am I doing anything wrong? If any one may kindly suggest?
> Is there any smarter way to do it? I am using Python2.7+
> on MS-Windows 7 Professional Edition.
> Apology for any indentation error.
>
> Regards,
> Subhabrata Banerjee.
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/attachments/20150422/2e5298f7/attachment.html>

From ganesh1pal at gmail.com  Wed Apr 22 12:50:10 2015
From: ganesh1pal at gmail.com (Ganesh Pal)
Date: Wed, 22 Apr 2015 22:20:10 +0530
Subject: python : timeit - Tool for measuring execution time
In-Reply-To: <55379D18.8050609@gmail.com>
References: <CACT3xuWveN3-XyGp5F_CwTAATCm=efGgWeM+LCaHV-YseS6J8g@mail.gmail.com>
 <55379D18.8050609@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CACT3xuW32QUeM8rh_SUNZX=9m_W6ps1FKzOHd0ghGuQ4ep0F9Q@mail.gmail.com>

Thank you ,  this answers my question  : )
On Apr 22, 2015 6:39 PM, "Michael Torrie" <torriem at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> On 04/21/2015 09:31 PM, Ganesh Pal wrote:
> > Iam not able to understand what  why only 10 loops were run ? what
> > does this mean and how  does this work ?
>
> I have a hunch you're mistakenly thinking that Python is only running
> through ten iterations of your for i in range(1000000) loop.  This is
> not the case.  The entire thing is running (all 1000000 iterations of
> your loop), but is run ten times, as that is the default for timeit
> unless you specify that you want to run it more times.  Hope this helps.
>
> Basically timeit is doing something like this:
>
> def mycode():
>     for i in range(1000000):
>         pass
>
> for x in range(10):
>      mycode()
>
> And then collecting timing statistics on the ten passes.
> --
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/attachments/20150422/5a079b65/attachment.html>

From jeanmichel at sequans.com  Wed Apr 22 13:01:23 2015
From: jeanmichel at sequans.com (Jean-Michel Pichavant)
Date: Wed, 22 Apr 2015 19:01:23 +0200 (CEST)
Subject: A question on the creation of list of lists
In-Reply-To: <8942f4d2-9b6e-45e3-a858-83977d187333@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <996957108.638714.1429722083764.JavaMail.root@sequans.com>

----- Original Message -----
> From: "subhabrata banerji" <subhabrata.banerji at gmail.com>
> To: python-list at python.org
> Sent: Wednesday, 22 April, 2015 6:18:30 PM
> Subject: A question on the creation of list of lists
> 
> Dear Group,
> 
> I am trying to open a bunch of files from a directory and trying to
> put the results in list of lists that is to say,
> 
> that is to say,
> I have a list of file names of a directory, I want to read each one
> of them.
> After reading each one of them, I want to put the results of each
> file in a list.
> These lists would again be inserted to create a list of lists.
> 
> to do this I am trying to write it as follows:
> 
> list_of_files = glob.glob('C:\Python27\*.*')
>     print list_of_files
>     list1=[]
>     list2=[]
>     list_N=[list1,list2]
>     for i,j in zip(list_of_files,list_N):
>         print i,j
>         x1=open(i,"r").read()
>         x2=j.append(x1)
>     all_sent=list_N
>     print all_sent
> 
> Am I doing anything wrong? If any one may kindly suggest?
> Is there any smarter way to do it? I am using Python2.7+
> on MS-Windows 7 Professional Edition.
> Apology for any indentation error.
> 
> Regards,
> Subhabrata Banerjee.

I'm not sure about what you're trying to do. But here are a couple of remarks:

1/ Your file pattern search will not get files that do not have any dot in their name or will get directory that have a dot in their name. Here's a better way of filtering files:

import glob
import os

filenames = [item for item in glob.glob('C:\Python27\*') if os.path.isfile(item)]

2/ the append method returns always None

x2=j.append(x1) will bind x2 to None. That is probably something you don't want. However you never use x2, so you can simply write:

j.append(x1)

3/ your for loop seems broken, but I'm not sure as I don't really know what you're trying to do. Here's a simple code that you may start from:

filenames = [item for item in glob.glob('C:\Python27\*') if os.path.isfile(item)]
content = []
for filename in filenames:
  with open(filename, 'r') as f:
    content.append(f.read())

all_sent = [filenames, content] 

You should end up with a list of list, the first list is the file names, the second their content:

with 2 files file1 file2 you should get
all_sent : [['file1', 'file2'], [content1, content2]]

Is it what you're trying to do ?

JM


-- IMPORTANT NOTICE: 

The contents of this email and any attachments are confidential and may also be privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify the sender immediately and do not disclose the contents to any other person, use it for any purpose, or store or copy the information in any medium. Thank you.

From subhabrata.banerji at gmail.com  Wed Apr 22 13:22:51 2015
From: subhabrata.banerji at gmail.com (subhabrata.banerji at gmail.com)
Date: Wed, 22 Apr 2015 10:22:51 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: A question on the creation of list of lists
In-Reply-To: <8942f4d2-9b6e-45e3-a858-83977d187333@googlegroups.com>
References: <8942f4d2-9b6e-45e3-a858-83977d187333@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <da3b2374-5c6e-453c-a5db-92d8d061941f@googlegroups.com>

On Wednesday, April 22, 2015 at 9:48:44 PM UTC+5:30, subhabrat... at gmail.com wrote:
> Dear Group,
> 
> I am trying to open a bunch of files from a directory and trying to put the results in list of lists that is to say,
> 
> that is to say, 
> I have a list of file names of a directory, I want to read each one of them. 
> After reading each one of them, I want to put the results of each file in a list. 
> These lists would again be inserted to create a list of lists.
> 
> to do this I am trying to write it as follows:
> 
> list_of_files = glob.glob('C:\Python27\*.*')
>     print list_of_files
>     list1=[]
>     list2=[]
>     list_N=[list1,list2]
>     for i,j in zip(list_of_files,list_N):
>         print i,j
>         x1=open(i,"r").read()
>         x2=j.append(x1)
>     all_sent=list_N
>     print all_sent
> 
> Am I doing anything wrong? If any one may kindly suggest?
> Is there any smarter way to do it? I am using Python2.7+
> on MS-Windows 7 Professional Edition. 
> Apology for any indentation error. 
> 
> Regards,
> Subhabrata Banerjee.

I was trying to get some results over small data before putting heavy data, code
seems giving desired output, as in 

The name of files are: ['C:\\Python27\\TestDoc\\TestDoc1.txt', 'C:\\Python27\\TestDoc\\TestDoc2.txt', 'C:\\Python27\\TestDoc\\TestDoc3.txt', 'C:\\Python27\\TestDoc\\TestDoc4.txt']
C:\Python27\TestDoc\TestDoc1.txt []
C:\Python27\TestDoc\TestDoc2.txt []
C:\Python27\TestDoc\TestDoc3.txt []
C:\Python27\TestDoc\TestDoc4.txt []
The Contents of file in list of lists: [['There is a home.'], ['One man lives there.'], ['He is tall.'], ['He is good.']]

I am trying to put heavy files with big contents, so was getting confused whether I was going fine. But the way I am creating lists may there be a a better way? 

Regards,
Subhabrata Banerjee. 



 


From Cecil at decebal.nl  Wed Apr 22 13:25:31 2015
From: Cecil at decebal.nl (Cecil Westerhof)
Date: Wed, 22 Apr 2015 19:25:31 +0200
Subject: Python as shell
Message-ID: <87618ojcs4.fsf@Equus.decebal.nl>

I am working again with Python and I am impressed again. ;-)

I thought there was a Python shell that could be used instead of Bash
(or whichever shell you are using), but I can not find anything about
it. Am I wrong, or are my search engine skills so bad?

-- 
Cecil Westerhof
Senior Software Engineer
LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/cecilwesterhof


From DaveFarrance at OMiTTHiSyahooANDTHiS.co.uk  Wed Apr 22 13:51:22 2015
From: DaveFarrance at OMiTTHiSyahooANDTHiS.co.uk (Dave Farrance)
Date: Wed, 22 Apr 2015 18:51:22 +0100
Subject: Python as shell
References: <87618ojcs4.fsf@Equus.decebal.nl>
Message-ID: <afnfja977800jmib5pebendnpfigdgjosi@4ax.com>

Cecil Westerhof <Cecil at decebal.nl> wrote:

>I am working again with Python and I am impressed again. ;-)
>
>I thought there was a Python shell that could be used instead of Bash
>(or whichever shell you are using), but I can not find anything about
>it. Am I wrong, or are my search engine skills so bad?

You're probably thinking of IPython which has some shell-like commands,
like ls and cd, and you can execute system commands by prefixing them
with "!".


From skip.montanaro at gmail.com  Wed Apr 22 13:54:17 2015
From: skip.montanaro at gmail.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Wed, 22 Apr 2015 12:54:17 -0500
Subject: Python as shell
In-Reply-To: <87618ojcs4.fsf@Equus.decebal.nl>
References: <87618ojcs4.fsf@Equus.decebal.nl>
Message-ID: <CANc-5UyjVYFsRt1B5Cx=PgJxVj_gUwxmcD1O4UtTxPLjt1RAYg@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Apr 22, 2015 at 12:25 PM, Cecil Westerhof <Cecil at decebal.nl> wrote:
> I thought there was a Python shell that could be used instead of Bash
> (or whichever shell you are using), but I can not find anything about
> it. Am I wrong, or are my search engine skills so bad?

Maybe Pyshell or IPython?

Skip


From ian.g.kelly at gmail.com  Wed Apr 22 13:59:32 2015
From: ian.g.kelly at gmail.com (Ian Kelly)
Date: Wed, 22 Apr 2015 11:59:32 -0600
Subject: [RELEASED] Python 3.5.0a4 is now available
In-Reply-To: <mh86fh$g83$1@ger.gmane.org>
References: <mailman.12.1429517764.31470.python-list@python.org>
 <2f1e2416-0a89-4ce6-acc3-e75fd7a5fbf6@googlegroups.com>
 <39b18ae1-3c11-48ae-9316-4c60b3e2fd0c@googlegroups.com>
 <c2ee0823-d597-442a-98aa-876857883b50@googlegroups.com>
 <mh86fh$g83$1@ger.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <CALwzidnQC__UGtzK4xLGXXxxo=A0-3_Jy3Hy2yFceq0RsNVKfw@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Apr 22, 2015 at 7:07 AM, Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
> Please don't feed the RUE, you're wasting everybody's time.

If there's a problem with the installer, that's worth knowing about,
isn't it? At least one of jmf's past complaints has led to an actual
bug fix.


From breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk  Wed Apr 22 15:25:04 2015
From: breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk (Mark Lawrence)
Date: Wed, 22 Apr 2015 20:25:04 +0100
Subject: [RELEASED] Python 3.5.0a4 is now available
In-Reply-To: <CALwzidnQC__UGtzK4xLGXXxxo=A0-3_Jy3Hy2yFceq0RsNVKfw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <mailman.12.1429517764.31470.python-list@python.org>
 <2f1e2416-0a89-4ce6-acc3-e75fd7a5fbf6@googlegroups.com>
 <39b18ae1-3c11-48ae-9316-4c60b3e2fd0c@googlegroups.com>
 <c2ee0823-d597-442a-98aa-876857883b50@googlegroups.com>
 <mh86fh$g83$1@ger.gmane.org>
 <CALwzidnQC__UGtzK4xLGXXxxo=A0-3_Jy3Hy2yFceq0RsNVKfw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <mh8sii$63p$1@ger.gmane.org>

On 22/04/2015 18:59, Ian Kelly wrote:
> On Wed, Apr 22, 2015 at 7:07 AM, Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>> Please don't feed the RUE, you're wasting everybody's time.
>
> If there's a problem with the installer, that's worth knowing about,
> isn't it? At least one of jmf's past complaints has led to an actual
> bug fix.
>

One in three years isn't a good rate to me. He's used his normal "Joseph 
McCarthy" tactics, all moan, no data, in just the same way that he moans 
about the FSR.  Whenever challenged, *NOTHING* to support what he's 
said.  As I believe I've said before, he is to Python what King Herod 
was to babysitting.

-- 
My fellow Pythonistas, ask not what our language can do for you, ask
what you can do for our language.

Mark Lawrence



From cmeek.dev at gmail.com  Wed Apr 22 19:05:42 2015
From: cmeek.dev at gmail.com (cmeek.dev at gmail.com)
Date: Wed, 22 Apr 2015 16:05:42 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Online offline Python apps
Message-ID: <2eb3fec8-bf5e-409b-bc3d-1eea29ead3d9@googlegroups.com>

Is there a best practice, tutorials, examples out there that demenstrates the best ways to create an offline mode of a python app that gets and sends its data to a remote database. I have tried creating my own via json API to mysql and using sqlalchemy SQLite and mysql. Everything I seem to come up with is buggy and or extremely ugly


From tjreedy at udel.edu  Wed Apr 22 19:16:26 2015
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Wed, 22 Apr 2015 19:16:26 -0400
Subject: [RELEASED] Python 3.5.0a4 is now available
In-Reply-To: <CALwzidnQC__UGtzK4xLGXXxxo=A0-3_Jy3Hy2yFceq0RsNVKfw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <mailman.12.1429517764.31470.python-list@python.org>
 <2f1e2416-0a89-4ce6-acc3-e75fd7a5fbf6@googlegroups.com>
 <39b18ae1-3c11-48ae-9316-4c60b3e2fd0c@googlegroups.com>
 <c2ee0823-d597-442a-98aa-876857883b50@googlegroups.com>
 <mh86fh$g83$1@ger.gmane.org>
 <CALwzidnQC__UGtzK4xLGXXxxo=A0-3_Jy3Hy2yFceq0RsNVKfw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <mh9a4c$50t$1@ger.gmane.org>

On 4/22/2015 1:59 PM, Ian Kelly wrote:
> On Wed, Apr 22, 2015 at 7:07 AM, Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>> Please don't feed the RUE, you're wasting everybody's time.
>
> If there's a problem with the installer, that's worth knowing about,
> isn't it?

If there is a problem with the installer that is not specific to one 
system, we should get a report from someone else, who will more likely 
give enough data to act on the report.

 > At least one of jmf's past complaints has led to an actual
> bug fix.

It was a performance issue, which he complained about perhaps 15 to 20 
times, including several times after the fix.

-- 
Terry Jan Reedy



From cfkaran2 at gmail.com  Wed Apr 22 21:30:10 2015
From: cfkaran2 at gmail.com (Cem Karan)
Date: Wed, 22 Apr 2015 21:30:10 -0400
Subject: Diff between object graphs?
In-Reply-To: <mh85kk$5g1$1@ger.gmane.org>
References: <78DAD20A-71C4-4EE9-AA85-935822A470AF@gmail.com>
 <mh85kk$5g1$1@ger.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <F053A223-0208-457B-A5DF-5360EF9748F9@gmail.com>


On Apr 22, 2015, at 8:53 AM, Peter Otten <__peter__ at web.de> wrote:

> Cem Karan wrote:
> 
>> Hi all, I need some help.  I'm working on a simple event-based simulator
>> for my dissertation research. The simulator has state information that I
>> want to analyze as a post-simulation step, so I currently save (pickle)
>> the entire simulator every time an event occurs; this lets me analyze the
>> simulation at any moment in time, and ask questions that I haven't thought
>> of yet.  The problem is that pickling this amount of data is both
>> time-consuming and a space hog.  This is true even when using bz2.open()
>> to create a compressed file on the fly.
>> 
>> This leaves me with two choices; first, pick the data I want to save, and
>> second, find a way of generating diffs between object graphs.  Since I
>> don't yet know all the questions I want to ask, I don't want to throw away
>> information prematurely, which is why I would prefer to avoid scenario 1.
>> 
>> So that brings up possibility two; generating diffs between object graphs.
>> I've searched around in the standard library and on pypi, but I haven't
>> yet found a library that does what I want.  Does anyone know of something
>> that does?
>> 
>> Basically, I want something with the following ability:
>> 
>> Object_graph_2 - Object_graph_1 = diff_2_1
>> Object_graph_1 + diff_2_1 = Object_graph_2
>> 
>> The object graphs are already pickleable, and the diffs must be, or this
>> won't work.  I can use deepcopy to ensure the two object graphs are
>> completely separate, so the diffing engine doesn't need to worry about
>> that part.
>> 
>> Anyone know of such a thing?
> 
> A poor man's approach:
> 
> Do not compress the pickled data, check it into version control. Getting the 
> n-th state then becomes checking out the n-th revision of the file.
> 
> I have no idea how much space you save that way, but it's simple enough to 
> give it a try.

Sounds like a good approach, I'll give it a shot in the morning.

> Another slightly more involved idea:
> 
> Make the events pickleable, and save the simulator only for every 100th (for 
> example) event. To restore the 7531th state load pickle 7500 and apply 
> events 7501 to 7531.

I was hoping to avoid doing this as I lose information.  BUT, its likely that this will be the best approach regardless of what other methods I use; there is just too much data.

Thanks,
Cem Karan

From davea at davea.name  Wed Apr 22 21:37:34 2015
From: davea at davea.name (Dave Angel)
Date: Wed, 22 Apr 2015 21:37:34 -0400
Subject: Diff between object graphs?
In-Reply-To: <F053A223-0208-457B-A5DF-5360EF9748F9@gmail.com>
References: <78DAD20A-71C4-4EE9-AA85-935822A470AF@gmail.com>
 <mh85kk$5g1$1@ger.gmane.org> <F053A223-0208-457B-A5DF-5360EF9748F9@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <55384CDE.5020800@davea.name>

On 04/22/2015 09:30 PM, Cem Karan wrote:
>
> On Apr 22, 2015, at 8:53 AM, Peter Otten <__peter__ at web.de> wrote:
>
>> Another slightly more involved idea:
>>
>> Make the events pickleable, and save the simulator only for every 100th (for
>> example) event. To restore the 7531th state load pickle 7500 and apply
>> events 7501 to 7531.
>
> I was hoping to avoid doing this as I lose information.  BUT, its likely that this will be the best approach regardless of what other methods I use; there is just too much data.
>

Why would that lose any information???


-- 
DaveA


From rosuav at gmail.com  Wed Apr 22 21:46:59 2015
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Thu, 23 Apr 2015 11:46:59 +1000
Subject: Diff between object graphs?
In-Reply-To: <55384CDE.5020800@davea.name>
References: <78DAD20A-71C4-4EE9-AA85-935822A470AF@gmail.com>
 <mh85kk$5g1$1@ger.gmane.org>
 <F053A223-0208-457B-A5DF-5360EF9748F9@gmail.com>
 <55384CDE.5020800@davea.name>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmqF7Dcma=Yh-mU+3c_PbHe0iba4m7_XtM3C71Kj2O2bDQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Apr 23, 2015 at 11:37 AM, Dave Angel <davea at davea.name> wrote:
> On 04/22/2015 09:30 PM, Cem Karan wrote:
>>
>>
>> On Apr 22, 2015, at 8:53 AM, Peter Otten <__peter__ at web.de> wrote:
>>
>>> Another slightly more involved idea:
>>>
>>> Make the events pickleable, and save the simulator only for every 100th
>>> (for
>>> example) event. To restore the 7531th state load pickle 7500 and apply
>>> events 7501 to 7531.
>>
>>
>> I was hoping to avoid doing this as I lose information.  BUT, its likely
>> that this will be the best approach regardless of what other methods I use;
>> there is just too much data.
>>
>
> Why would that lose any information???

It loses information if event processing isn't perfectly deterministic.

ChrisA


From cfkaran2 at gmail.com  Wed Apr 22 21:53:55 2015
From: cfkaran2 at gmail.com (Cem Karan)
Date: Wed, 22 Apr 2015 21:53:55 -0400
Subject: Diff between object graphs?
In-Reply-To: <CAPTjJmqF7Dcma=Yh-mU+3c_PbHe0iba4m7_XtM3C71Kj2O2bDQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <78DAD20A-71C4-4EE9-AA85-935822A470AF@gmail.com>
 <mh85kk$5g1$1@ger.gmane.org> <F053A223-0208-457B-A5DF-5360EF9748F9@gmail.com>
 <55384CDE.5020800@davea.name>
 <CAPTjJmqF7Dcma=Yh-mU+3c_PbHe0iba4m7_XtM3C71Kj2O2bDQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <87E46968-1206-41AF-A61A-5D1C3931409E@gmail.com>


On Apr 22, 2015, at 9:46 PM, Chris Angelico <rosuav at gmail.com> wrote:

> On Thu, Apr 23, 2015 at 11:37 AM, Dave Angel <davea at davea.name> wrote:
>> On 04/22/2015 09:30 PM, Cem Karan wrote:
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On Apr 22, 2015, at 8:53 AM, Peter Otten <__peter__ at web.de> wrote:
>>> 
>>>> Another slightly more involved idea:
>>>> 
>>>> Make the events pickleable, and save the simulator only for every 100th
>>>> (for
>>>> example) event. To restore the 7531th state load pickle 7500 and apply
>>>> events 7501 to 7531.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> I was hoping to avoid doing this as I lose information.  BUT, its likely
>>> that this will be the best approach regardless of what other methods I use;
>>> there is just too much data.
>>> 
>> 
>> Why would that lose any information???
> 
> It loses information if event processing isn't perfectly deterministic.

Precisely.  In order to make my simulations more realistic, I use a lot of random numbers.  I can fake things by keeping the seed to the generator, but if I want to do any sort of hardware in the loop simulations, then that approach won't work.

Thanks,
Cem Karan

From davea at davea.name  Wed Apr 22 21:56:42 2015
From: davea at davea.name (Dave Angel)
Date: Wed, 22 Apr 2015 21:56:42 -0400
Subject: Diff between object graphs?
In-Reply-To: <CAPTjJmqF7Dcma=Yh-mU+3c_PbHe0iba4m7_XtM3C71Kj2O2bDQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <78DAD20A-71C4-4EE9-AA85-935822A470AF@gmail.com>
 <mh85kk$5g1$1@ger.gmane.org> <F053A223-0208-457B-A5DF-5360EF9748F9@gmail.com>
 <55384CDE.5020800@davea.name>
 <CAPTjJmqF7Dcma=Yh-mU+3c_PbHe0iba4m7_XtM3C71Kj2O2bDQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <5538515A.3000907@davea.name>

On 04/22/2015 09:46 PM, Chris Angelico wrote:
> On Thu, Apr 23, 2015 at 11:37 AM, Dave Angel <davea at davea.name> wrote:
>> On 04/22/2015 09:30 PM, Cem Karan wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> On Apr 22, 2015, at 8:53 AM, Peter Otten <__peter__ at web.de> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Another slightly more involved idea:
>>>>
>>>> Make the events pickleable, and save the simulator only for every 100th
>>>> (for
>>>> example) event. To restore the 7531th state load pickle 7500 and apply
>>>> events 7501 to 7531.
>>>
>>>
>>> I was hoping to avoid doing this as I lose information.  BUT, its likely
>>> that this will be the best approach regardless of what other methods I use;
>>> there is just too much data.
>>>
>>
>> Why would that lose any information???
>
> It loses information if event processing isn't perfectly deterministic.

Quite right.  But I hadn't seen anything in this thread to imply that.

I used an approach like that on the Game of Life, in 1976.  I saved 
every 10th or so state, and was able to run the simulation backwards by 
going forward from the previous saved state.  In this case, the analogue 
of the "event" is determined from the previous state.  But it's quite 
similar, and quite deterministic.



-- 
DaveA


From cfkaran2 at gmail.com  Wed Apr 22 22:15:20 2015
From: cfkaran2 at gmail.com (Cem Karan)
Date: Wed, 22 Apr 2015 22:15:20 -0400
Subject: Diff between object graphs?
In-Reply-To: <5538515A.3000907@davea.name>
References: <78DAD20A-71C4-4EE9-AA85-935822A470AF@gmail.com>
 <mh85kk$5g1$1@ger.gmane.org> <F053A223-0208-457B-A5DF-5360EF9748F9@gmail.com>
 <55384CDE.5020800@davea.name>
 <CAPTjJmqF7Dcma=Yh-mU+3c_PbHe0iba4m7_XtM3C71Kj2O2bDQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <5538515A.3000907@davea.name>
Message-ID: <C66F1A95-21A3-41DD-9D7E-AC0D161BDAD4@gmail.com>


On Apr 22, 2015, at 9:56 PM, Dave Angel <davea at davea.name> wrote:

> On 04/22/2015 09:46 PM, Chris Angelico wrote:
>> On Thu, Apr 23, 2015 at 11:37 AM, Dave Angel <davea at davea.name> wrote:
>>> On 04/22/2015 09:30 PM, Cem Karan wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> On Apr 22, 2015, at 8:53 AM, Peter Otten <__peter__ at web.de> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>> Another slightly more involved idea:
>>>>> 
>>>>> Make the events pickleable, and save the simulator only for every 100th
>>>>> (for
>>>>> example) event. To restore the 7531th state load pickle 7500 and apply
>>>>> events 7501 to 7531.
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> I was hoping to avoid doing this as I lose information.  BUT, its likely
>>>> that this will be the best approach regardless of what other methods I use;
>>>> there is just too much data.
>>>> 
>>> 
>>> Why would that lose any information???
>> 
>> It loses information if event processing isn't perfectly deterministic.
> 
> Quite right.  But I hadn't seen anything in this thread to imply that.

My apologies, that's my fault.  I should have mentioned that in the first place.

Thanks,
Cem Karan

From sam.raker at gmail.com  Wed Apr 22 23:01:35 2015
From: sam.raker at gmail.com (Sam Raker)
Date: Wed, 22 Apr 2015 20:01:35 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Online offline Python apps
In-Reply-To: <2eb3fec8-bf5e-409b-bc3d-1eea29ead3d9@googlegroups.com>
References: <2eb3fec8-bf5e-409b-bc3d-1eea29ead3d9@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <28c249e6-7b4b-4195-94c5-7687807c8d8e@googlegroups.com>

Have you tried a conditional/try-catch block in your __init__? Something like 

    class MyDBConn(object):
        def __init__(self, **db_kwargs):
            try:
                db = some_db.connect(**db_kwargs)
            except some_db.ConnectionError:
                db = my_fake_db() 
            finally:
                self.db = db 

You might have to write an adapter to make sure you can treat the fake db and real db the same way, but that shouldn't be too hard. 


From steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info  Thu Apr 23 01:59:08 2015
From: steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: Thu, 23 Apr 2015 15:59:08 +1000
Subject: Diff between object graphs?
References: <78DAD20A-71C4-4EE9-AA85-935822A470AF@gmail.com>
 <mh85kk$5g1$1@ger.gmane.org> <F053A223-0208-457B-A5DF-5360EF9748F9@gmail.com>
 <55384CDE.5020800@davea.name>
 <CAPTjJmqF7Dcma=Yh-mU+3c_PbHe0iba4m7_XtM3C71Kj2O2bDQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.81.1429754041.31470.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <55388a2e$0$12999$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

On Thursday 23 April 2015 11:53, Cem Karan wrote:

> Precisely.  In order to make my simulations more realistic, I use a lot of
> random numbers.  I can fake things by keeping the seed to the generator,
> but if I want to do any sort of hardware in the loop simulations, then
> that approach won't work.

That's exactly why we have *pseudo* random number generators. They are 
statistically indistinguishable from "real" randomness, but repeatable when 
needed.

Obviously you need a high-quality PRNG like the Mersenne Twister, as used by 
Python. and you need to ensure that the distribution of values matches that 
of the real-life events. If you are truly paranoid, you might even run the 
simulation twice, using independent PRNGs (e.g. Mersenne Twister for one 
run, Marsaglia xorshift generator for another), and compare the results. But 
given that you are using a high-quality generator in the first place, that 
is unlikely to gain you anything.

(MT is uniformly distributed with no correlations in up to 623 dimensions. I 
suppose it is possible if your simulation involves a phase space with more 
than 623 dimensions, it may inadvertently find correlations in the random 
numbers.)

There's no benefit (except maybe speed, and probably not that) for using 
unrepeatable "real" random numbers. Using real randomness for simulations is 
a bad idea because it means you can never run the same simulation twice and 
you are forced to store large amounts of data instead of just storing the 
seed then running the simulation again.



-- 
Steve



From anubhav1691 at gmail.com  Thu Apr 23 03:00:08 2015
From: anubhav1691 at gmail.com (anubhav1691 at gmail.com)
Date: Thu, 23 Apr 2015 00:00:08 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: python : timeit - Tool for measuring execution time
In-Reply-To: <mailman.72.1429721419.31470.python-list@python.org>
References: <CACT3xuWveN3-XyGp5F_CwTAATCm=efGgWeM+LCaHV-YseS6J8g@mail.gmail.com>
 <55379D18.8050609@gmail.com>
 <mailman.72.1429721419.31470.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <632cc452-b0e7-4032-8018-40b68b5ef5f5@googlegroups.com>

On Wednesday, April 22, 2015 at 10:20:58 PM UTC+5:30, Ganesh Pal wrote:
> Thank you ,? this answers my question? : )

Hi, Thanks for asking this question, it introduced me to the timeit module. Just a friendly, next time refrain yourself from top posting. 

Cheers!



From manolo at austrohungaro.com  Thu Apr 23 03:47:13 2015
From: manolo at austrohungaro.com (Manolo =?iso-8859-1?Q?Mart=EDnez?=)
Date: Thu, 23 Apr 2015 09:47:13 +0200
Subject: Python as shell
In-Reply-To: <87618ojcs4.fsf@Equus.decebal.nl>
References: <87618ojcs4.fsf@Equus.decebal.nl>
Message-ID: <20150423074713.GA21193@beagle>

On 04/22/15 at 07:25pm, Cecil Westerhof wrote:
> I thought there was a Python shell that could be used instead of Bash
> (or whichever shell you are using)

Perhaps you had [xonsh](http://xonsh.org/) in mind?

Manolo


From moonlight06082013 at gmail.com  Thu Apr 23 03:56:18 2015
From: moonlight06082013 at gmail.com (Rehab Habeeb)
Date: Thu, 23 Apr 2015 10:56:18 +0300
Subject: a small note booklet about Python
Message-ID: <CAA3NwWpNLL1uWc+-6NdMrj4UYqZ0BPOV6-cFHt_g+B1s85D2VQ@mail.gmail.com>

Hi there :)
i would like to know your opinion about a small booklet about what we want
to know python before learning it .. because many people may want to be
satisfied in what they are going to learn and want to be more confident
....thats what i felt so i surfed the net wanting to know where is python
among all this huge list of programming languages and is worthy to learn it
....so i made a small search and gathered all information anyone would like
to know about python with its features and examples ....we can say it could
be a part of an introduction in a python book .

best wishes
Rehab

from IRAQ
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/attachments/20150423/71652264/attachment.html>

From steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info  Thu Apr 23 04:52:14 2015
From: steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: Thu, 23 Apr 2015 18:52:14 +1000
Subject: a small note booklet about Python
References: <mailman.85.1429775780.31470.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <5538b2bf$0$12921$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

Hello Rehab, and welcome,

On Thursday 23 April 2015 17:56, Rehab Habeeb wrote:
> Hi there :)
> i would like to know your opinion about a small booklet about what we want
> to know python before learning it .. because many people may want to be
> satisfied in what they are going to learn and want to be more confident
> ....thats what i felt so i surfed the net wanting to know where is python
> among all this huge list of programming languages and is worthy to learn
> it ....so i made a small search and gathered all information anyone would
> like to know about python with its features and examples ....we can say it
> could be a part of an introduction in a python book .

I am sorry, I don't understand what you mean. Are you asking for help 
finding Python booklets? Or have you made a booklet and want to share with 
people?



-- 
Steven



From subhabrata.banerji at gmail.com  Thu Apr 23 06:11:56 2015
From: subhabrata.banerji at gmail.com (subhabrata.banerji at gmail.com)
Date: Thu, 23 Apr 2015 03:11:56 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: May I drop list bracket from list?
Message-ID: <d7188374-17bd-4573-859d-fa7f7702943c@googlegroups.com>

Dear Group, 

I am trying to read a list of files as 
list_of_files = glob.glob('C:\Python27\*.*')
Now I am trying to read each one of them, 
convert into list of words, and append to a list
as.

list1=[]
for file in list_of_files:
      print file
      fread1=open(file,"r").read()
      fword=fread1.split()
      list1.append(fword)

Here the list is a list of lists, but I want only one list not 
list of lists.

I was thinking of stripping it as, str(list1).strip('[]')

but in that case it would be converted to string.

Is there a way to do it. I am using Python27 on Windows7 Professional.
Apology for an indentation error. 

If anybody may please suggest. 

Regards,
Subhabrata Banerjee. 




      

  


From __peter__ at web.de  Thu Apr 23 06:26:41 2015
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Thu, 23 Apr 2015 12:26:41 +0200
Subject: May I drop list bracket from list?
References: <d7188374-17bd-4573-859d-fa7f7702943c@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <mhahd3$mnk$1@ger.gmane.org>

subhabrata.banerji at gmail.com wrote:

> Dear Group,
> 
> I am trying to read a list of files as
> list_of_files = glob.glob('C:\Python27\*.*')
> Now I am trying to read each one of them,
> convert into list of words, and append to a list
> as.
> 
> list1=[]
> for file in list_of_files:
>       print file
>       fread1=open(file,"r").read()
>       fword=fread1.split()
>       list1.append(fword)
> 
> Here the list is a list of lists, but I want only one list not
> list of lists.
> 
> I was thinking of stripping it as, str(list1).strip('[]')
> 
> but in that case it would be converted to string.
> 
> Is there a way to do it. I am using Python27 on Windows7 Professional.
> Apology for an indentation error.
> 
> If anybody may please suggest.

You have to understand that the append() method always appends a single item 
to the list, be that a string or a list or whatever. If you want to append 
words in a list to the list the logical approach is therefore to loop over 
the words and invoke append for every word

for word in fword:
    list1.append(word)

There is also a dedicated extend() method that takes a list (actually an 
iterable) and appends all items in that list:

list1.extend(fword)




From subhabrata.banerji at gmail.com  Thu Apr 23 06:33:31 2015
From: subhabrata.banerji at gmail.com (subhabrata.banerji at gmail.com)
Date: Thu, 23 Apr 2015 03:33:31 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: May I drop list bracket from list?
In-Reply-To: <mailman.87.1429784834.31470.python-list@python.org>
References: <d7188374-17bd-4573-859d-fa7f7702943c@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.87.1429784834.31470.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <d189e24c-a7e2-4438-a5eb-125fb143c7c5@googlegroups.com>

On Thursday, April 23, 2015 at 3:57:28 PM UTC+5:30, Peter Otten wrote:
> 
> 
> > Dear Group,
> > 
> > I am trying to read a list of files as
> > list_of_files = glob.glob('C:\Python27\*.*')
> > Now I am trying to read each one of them,
> > convert into list of words, and append to a list
> > as.
> > 
> > list1=[]
> > for file in list_of_files:
> >       print file
> >       fread1=open(file,"r").read()
> >       fword=fread1.split()
> >       list1.append(fword)
> > 
> > Here the list is a list of lists, but I want only one list not
> > list of lists.
> > 
> > I was thinking of stripping it as, str(list1).strip('[]')
> > 
> > but in that case it would be converted to string.
> > 
> > Is there a way to do it. I am using Python27 on Windows7 Professional.
> > Apology for an indentation error.
> > 
> > If anybody may please suggest.
> 
> You have to understand that the append() method always appends a single item 
> to the list, be that a string or a list or whatever. If you want to append 
> words in a list to the list the logical approach is therefore to loop over 
> the words and invoke append for every word
> 
> for word in fword:
>     list1.append(word)
> 
> There is also a dedicated extend() method that takes a list (actually an 
> iterable) and appends all items in that list:
> 
> list1.extend(fword)

Thanks Peter. I tried an example,
>> ll = [['a'], ['b'], ['c']]
>>> l = [x for y in ll for x in y]

I would try your one,too.

Regards,
Subhabrata Banerjee. 



From cfkaran2 at gmail.com  Thu Apr 23 06:34:08 2015
From: cfkaran2 at gmail.com (Cem Karan)
Date: Thu, 23 Apr 2015 06:34:08 -0400
Subject: Diff between object graphs?
In-Reply-To: <55388a2e$0$12999$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
References: <78DAD20A-71C4-4EE9-AA85-935822A470AF@gmail.com>
 <mh85kk$5g1$1@ger.gmane.org> <F053A223-0208-457B-A5DF-5360EF9748F9@gmail.com>
 <55384CDE.5020800@davea.name>
 <CAPTjJmqF7Dcma=Yh-mU+3c_PbHe0iba4m7_XtM3C71Kj2O2bDQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.81.1429754041.31470.python-list@python.org>
 <55388a2e$0$12999$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <6902B9A8-8187-4E98-8472-1A4503F1292D@gmail.com>


On Apr 23, 2015, at 1:59 AM, Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info> wrote:

> On Thursday 23 April 2015 11:53, Cem Karan wrote:
> 
>> Precisely.  In order to make my simulations more realistic, I use a lot of
>> random numbers.  I can fake things by keeping the seed to the generator,
>> but if I want to do any sort of hardware in the loop simulations, then
>> that approach won't work.
> 
> That's exactly why we have *pseudo* random number generators. They are 
> statistically indistinguishable from "real" randomness, but repeatable when 
> needed.

Which is why is why I mentioned keeping the seed above.  The problem is that I eventually want to do hardware in the loop, which will involve IO between the simulation machine and the actual robots, and IO timing is imprecise and uncontrollable.  That is where not recording something becomes lossy.  That said, the mere act of trying to record everything is going to cause timing issues, so I guess I'm over thinking things yet again.

Thanks for the help everyone, its helped me clarify what I need to do in my mind.

Thanks,
Cem Karan

From __peter__ at web.de  Thu Apr 23 06:50:30 2015
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Thu, 23 Apr 2015 12:50:30 +0200
Subject: May I drop list bracket from list?
References: <d7188374-17bd-4573-859d-fa7f7702943c@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.87.1429784834.31470.python-list@python.org>
 <d189e24c-a7e2-4438-a5eb-125fb143c7c5@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <mhaipp$e0s$1@ger.gmane.org>

subhabrata.banerji at gmail.com wrote:

> On Thursday, April 23, 2015 at 3:57:28 PM UTC+5:30, Peter Otten wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> > Dear Group,
>> > 
>> > I am trying to read a list of files as
>> > list_of_files = glob.glob('C:\Python27\*.*')
>> > Now I am trying to read each one of them,
>> > convert into list of words, and append to a list
>> > as.
>> > 
>> > list1=[]
>> > for file in list_of_files:
>> >       print file
>> >       fread1=open(file,"r").read()
>> >       fword=fread1.split()
>> >       list1.append(fword)
>> > 
>> > Here the list is a list of lists, but I want only one list not
>> > list of lists.
>> > 
>> > I was thinking of stripping it as, str(list1).strip('[]')
>> > 
>> > but in that case it would be converted to string.
>> > 
>> > Is there a way to do it. I am using Python27 on Windows7 Professional.
>> > Apology for an indentation error.
>> > 
>> > If anybody may please suggest.
>> 
>> You have to understand that the append() method always appends a single
>> item to the list, be that a string or a list or whatever. If you want to
>> append words in a list to the list the logical approach is therefore to
>> loop over the words and invoke append for every word
>> 
>> for word in fword:
>>     list1.append(word)
>> 
>> There is also a dedicated extend() method that takes a list (actually an
>> iterable) and appends all items in that list:
>> 
>> list1.extend(fword)
> 
> Thanks Peter. I tried an example,
>>> ll = [['a'], ['b'], ['c']]
>>>> l = [x for y in ll for x in y]
> 
> I would try your one,too.
> 
> Regards,
> Subhabrata Banerjee.

The expression

[x for y in ll for x in y]

is called "list comprehension" and is syntactic sugar for

l = []
for y in ll:
    for x in y:
        l.append(x)

I suggest that you forget about list comprehensions until you are 
comfortable with the traditional approach that uses for loops. Once you have 
understood that the translation into list comprehensions in situations where 
it looks better is mechanical.



From jeanmichel at sequans.com  Thu Apr 23 07:12:48 2015
From: jeanmichel at sequans.com (Jean-Michel Pichavant)
Date: Thu, 23 Apr 2015 13:12:48 +0200 (CEST)
Subject: May I drop list bracket from list?
In-Reply-To: <mhahd3$mnk$1@ger.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <939286150.705628.1429787568667.JavaMail.root@sequans.com>

----- Original Message -----
> From: "Peter Otten" <__peter__ at web.de>
> To: python-list at python.org
> Sent: Thursday, 23 April, 2015 12:26:41 PM
> Subject: Re: May I drop list bracket from list?
> 
> subhabrata.banerji at gmail.com wrote:
> 
> > Dear Group,
> > 
> > list1=[]
> > for file in list_of_files:
> >       print file
> >       fread1=open(file,"r").read()
> >       fword=fread1.split()
> >       list1.append(fword)
> > 
> > Here the list is a list of lists, but I want only one list not
> > list of lists.
> There is also a dedicated extend() method that takes a list (actually
> an
> iterable) and appends all items in that list:
> 
> list1.extend(fword)

If both list1 and fword are lists, you can also write

list1 = list1 + fword
or
list1 += fword

JM


-- IMPORTANT NOTICE: 

The contents of this email and any attachments are confidential and may also be privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify the sender immediately and do not disclose the contents to any other person, use it for any purpose, or store or copy the information in any medium. Thank you.

From ben.lists at bsb.me.uk  Thu Apr 23 07:21:53 2015
From: ben.lists at bsb.me.uk (Ben Bacarisse)
Date: Thu, 23 Apr 2015 12:21:53 +0100
Subject: May I drop list bracket from list?
References: <d7188374-17bd-4573-859d-fa7f7702943c@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <87tww76qem.fsf@bsb.me.uk>

subhabrata.banerji at gmail.com writes:

> I am trying to read a list of files as 
> list_of_files = glob.glob('C:\Python27\*.*')
> Now I am trying to read each one of them, 
> convert into list of words, and append to a list
> as.
>
> list1=[]
> for file in list_of_files:
>       print file
>       fread1=open(file,"r").read()
>       fword=fread1.split()
>       list1.append(fword)
>
> Here the list is a list of lists, but I want only one list not 
> list of lists.

You probably want list.extend(fword) here.  Python's ternimology is a
little quirky here -- in some other languages (ntable the mother of all
list langiages, Lisp), the append function does what Python's extend
does.

<snip>
-- 
Ben.


From fomcl at yahoo.com  Thu Apr 23 07:42:25 2015
From: fomcl at yahoo.com (Albert-Jan Roskam)
Date: Thu, 23 Apr 2015 04:42:25 -0700
Subject: [OT] Git for nazis
Message-ID: <1429789345.60177.YahooMailMobile@web163804.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>

Just had to share this: 
https://youtu.be/CDeG4S-mJts
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/attachments/20150423/e964d72d/attachment.html>

From __peter__ at web.de  Thu Apr 23 07:52:19 2015
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Thu, 23 Apr 2015 13:52:19 +0200
Subject: May I drop list bracket from list?
References: <mhahd3$mnk$1@ger.gmane.org>
 <939286150.705628.1429787568667.JavaMail.root@sequans.com>
Message-ID: <mhamdl$ap2$1@ger.gmane.org>

Jean-Michel Pichavant wrote:

> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Peter Otten" <__peter__ at web.de>
>> To: python-list at python.org
>> Sent: Thursday, 23 April, 2015 12:26:41 PM
>> Subject: Re: May I drop list bracket from list?
>> 
>> subhabrata.banerji at gmail.com wrote:
>> 
>> > Dear Group,
>> > 
>> > list1=[]
>> > for file in list_of_files:
>> >       print file
>> >       fread1=open(file,"r").read()
>> >       fword=fread1.split()
>> >       list1.append(fword)
>> > 
>> > Here the list is a list of lists, but I want only one list not
>> > list of lists.
>> There is also a dedicated extend() method that takes a list (actually
>> an
>> iterable) and appends all items in that list:
>> 
>> list1.extend(fword)
> 
> If both list1 and fword are lists, you can also write
> 
> list1 = list1 + fword
> or
> list1 += fword

Yes, the can of worms is bottomless ;)



From steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info  Thu Apr 23 08:20:11 2015
From: steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: Thu, 23 Apr 2015 22:20:11 +1000
Subject: May I drop list bracket from list?
References: <mailman.90.1429789510.31470.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <5538e37c$0$13013$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

On Thu, 23 Apr 2015 09:12 pm, Jean-Michel Pichavant wrote:

> If both list1 and fword are lists, you can also write
> 
> list1 = list1 + fword
> or
> list1 += fword


You can, but you shouldn't since it risks being very slow, especially the
first version. Repeated list addition has quadratic behaviour. It's okay if
you only add a few lists, but if there are thousands or millions of them,
it will be horribly slow. Using extend guarantees to modify the list in
place and avoid unnecessary copying of data.


-- 
Steven



From greg.ewing at canterbury.ac.nz  Thu Apr 23 08:36:49 2015
From: greg.ewing at canterbury.ac.nz (Gregory Ewing)
Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2015 00:36:49 +1200
Subject: A question on the creation of list of lists
In-Reply-To: <mailman.73.1429722160.31470.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.73.1429722160.31470.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <cps7b2Ffg0cU1@mid.individual.net>

Jean-Michel Pichavant wrote:
>> From: "subhabrata banerji" <subhabrata.banerji at gmail.com>
>> 
>> list_of_files = glob.glob('C:\Python27\*.*')
 >
> 1/ Your file pattern search will not get files that do not have any dot in
> their name

Actually, on Windows, it will. (This is for compatibility with
MS-DOS 8.3 filenames, where the dot wasn't actually stored, so
there was no distinction between a filename with a dot and an
empty extension, and a filename with no dot.)

-- 
Greg


From yacinechaouche at yahoo.com  Thu Apr 23 09:39:11 2015
From: yacinechaouche at yahoo.com (Yassine Chaouche)
Date: Thu, 23 Apr 2015 06:39:11 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: How to write a non blocking SimpleHTTPRequestHandler ?
In-Reply-To: <d18abcc8-768b-4230-814b-122211cbf649@googlegroups.com>
References: <d18abcc8-768b-4230-814b-122211cbf649@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <942d5fa5-ecec-4855-a252-c4ff972826ab@googlegroups.com>

Hello,

I wanted to make a little update on this thread. The problem is solved, and while debugging my application I learned that it is actually possible to have multithreaded or multi-process web application in python using only the standard library.

A longer explanation, along with minimal working code and some UML diagrams explaining the insides of the standard python library modules involved in basic web applications can be found here : http://ychaouche.wikispot.org/HowBottleAppsWork



From davea at davea.name  Thu Apr 23 10:05:23 2015
From: davea at davea.name (Dave Angel)
Date: Thu, 23 Apr 2015 10:05:23 -0400
Subject: May I drop list bracket from list?
In-Reply-To: <d7188374-17bd-4573-859d-fa7f7702943c@googlegroups.com>
References: <d7188374-17bd-4573-859d-fa7f7702943c@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <5538FC23.1050205@davea.name>

On 04/23/2015 06:11 AM, subhabrata.banerji at gmail.com wrote:
> Dear Group,
>
> I am trying to read a list of files as
> list_of_files = glob.glob('C:\Python27\*.*')
> Now I am trying to read each one of them,
> convert into list of words, and append to a list
> as.
>
> list1=[]
> for file in list_of_files:
>        print file
>        fread1=open(file,"r").read()
>        fword=fread1.split()
>        list1.append(fword)
>
> Here the list is a list of lists, but I want only one list not
> list of lists.
>
> I was thinking of stripping it as, str(list1).strip('[]')
>
> but in that case it would be converted to string.
>
> Is there a way to do it. I am using Python27 on Windows7 Professional.
> Apology for an indentation error.
>
> If anybody may please suggest.
>

You're first problem is the name of your variable.  fword implies it's a 
string, but it's really a list.  So when you do:
      list1.append(fword)

you're appending a list to a list, which gives you nested lists.  Sounds 
like you want
      list1.extend(fword)



-- 
DaveA


From davea at davea.name  Thu Apr 23 10:12:20 2015
From: davea at davea.name (Dave Angel)
Date: Thu, 23 Apr 2015 10:12:20 -0400
Subject: A question on the creation of list of lists
In-Reply-To: <cps7b2Ffg0cU1@mid.individual.net>
References: <mailman.73.1429722160.31470.python-list@python.org>
 <cps7b2Ffg0cU1@mid.individual.net>
Message-ID: <5538FDC4.20502@davea.name>

On 04/23/2015 08:36 AM, Gregory Ewing wrote:
> Jean-Michel Pichavant wrote:
>>> From: "subhabrata banerji" <subhabrata.banerji at gmail.com>
>>>
>>> list_of_files = glob.glob('C:\Python27\*.*')
>  >
>> 1/ Your file pattern search will not get files that do not have any
>> dot in
>> their name
>
> Actually, on Windows, it will. (This is for compatibility with
> MS-DOS 8.3 filenames, where the dot wasn't actually stored, so
> there was no distinction between a filename with a dot and an
> empty extension, and a filename with no dot.)
>

That's certainly true at the command line in Windows DOS box, but I'd be 
astounded if glob used the same logic, even on Winodows.

-- 
DaveA


From nagarajuusstaffing at gmail.com  Thu Apr 23 10:17:31 2015
From: nagarajuusstaffing at gmail.com (nagaraju thoudoju)
Date: Thu, 23 Apr 2015 07:17:31 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Urjent Requirements :1.Agile Coach,2.Technical Analyst :- Remedy
 3.Technical Analyst :- Internet Explorer, Location:-Bloomington, IL.
Message-ID: <8309c5f2-e1e7-4609-8354-391645f0be63@googlegroups.com>

Hi,

Hope you are doing well,
 
Please find the requirement below and let me know you interest on this position on  nagaraju at intsystech.com or feel free to call me on D:908-333-3540. 
 

1.Requirement:

Role: Agile Coach 
Work location :- Bloomington, IL, 

Job description:

The  person should have a very strong experience in successfully working with Agile teams.  They should have experience in the Scrum Master role and  have mentored coached others in Agile techniques previously. 
   The duties would be: 
o Training and coaching Agile teams as well as preparing for and executing Agile Transformations.
o Skill lies in the expertise needed to assess organizational operating models, quickly assimilate details, and optimize organizations value streams. 
o Work at varying levels across your organization and are often useful as an independent voice of reason when facilitating sessions intended to break-down silos that are often present in the cultures of larger organizations. 
o Proficient in many Agile disciplines (e.g. Scrum, Kanban, Lean, Feature Driven Development) and many are Scaled Agile Framework Program Consultants (SAFE, SPC).

 

2.Requirement:

Role: Technical Analyst: Remedy

Location: Bloomington, IL 


Job description:

Development experience with Remedy.   
Task description :- Modeling, implementing and optimizing process workflows in Remedy AR System suite version 8.1 
3 or more years Remedy Development is required. 
3 or more years with workflow designs, and process improvement is required. 
Experience installing, configuring, and upgrading Remedy services is required. 
Experience with BMC application integration is required. 
Experience with the following Suite components: 
?       AR System Server 
?       SRM 
?       Atrium Core 
?       Atrium Core Web Services 
?       Atrium Integrator 
?       ITSM Suite 
?       SLM 
?       SRM

3.Requirement:

Role: Technical Analyst :-  Internet Explorer 
Work location: Bloomington, IL, 

Job Description:


Problem Statement: Users of a complex web application frequently experience slow responses, browser lockups, and browser crashes. This application is only compatible with Internet Explorer, thus all users are using Internet Explorer. 
Research has shown that this does not appear to be a server-side issue, and appears to be an issue with how this particular web application is interacting with the Internet Explorer browser. These issues are sporadic, and are not easily reproduced. 

The requirement is for an analyst that has the skillset required to analyze this issue, ranging from JavaScript code, Browser <-> OS interactions, network transactions, etc. 

Need a highly technical resource to help troubleshoot the above issues. 

The resource needs to be 
?       Onsite - develop hands-on experience, create environment of collaboration for application users and technical support, 
?       Operate with a high degree of autonomy 
?       Results oriented (identify/recognize/pinpoint obscure complications that present themselves) 
?       Strong written and verbal communication skills (both technical and business communication abilities). 
?       Extensive knowledge of Internet Explorer, Windows OS, and related monitoring tools 
-       Troubleshoot workstations experiencing Internet Explorer lockups and crashes. 
-       Knowledge of various Internet Explorer configuration options (Registry settings, command line arguments, Group Policy Settings) 
-       Strong understanding of Internet Explorer process and memory management 
-       Understanding of Internet Explorer caching behavior, 
-       Ability to analyze caching interactions throughout mid-tier infrastructure components. 
?       Ability to comprehend server-side application code (Java), as relevant to user-facing functionality 
?       Network transaction analysis 
?       Browser to Browser & OS interactions 
?       XSL, XML 
?       JQuery 
?       Familiarity with utilities such as ProcMon, Process Explorer, and GFlags 
?       Familiarity with monitoring / tracing tools such as Wireshark, HTTP Watch, and Fiddler

 
 
Thanks & Best Regards....?
Raju
International Systems Technologies Inc.
10 Corporate place south.| Suite 203  |
Piscataway, NJ 08854  |
D:908-333-3540 |Fax:732-348-9533|
E-mail: nagaraju at intsystech.com   |
URL: www.intsystech.com


From rosuav at gmail.com  Thu Apr 23 10:23:14 2015
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2015 00:23:14 +1000
Subject: A question on the creation of list of lists
In-Reply-To: <5538FDC4.20502@davea.name>
References: <mailman.73.1429722160.31470.python-list@python.org>
 <cps7b2Ffg0cU1@mid.individual.net> <5538FDC4.20502@davea.name>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmpbDUE_dFVWGSeTtEndY3dB_UWY7cEHArCaDTGRboiD1Q@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Apr 24, 2015 at 12:12 AM, Dave Angel <davea at davea.name> wrote:
> On 04/23/2015 08:36 AM, Gregory Ewing wrote:
>>
>> Jean-Michel Pichavant wrote:
>>>>
>>>> From: "subhabrata banerji" <subhabrata.banerji at gmail.com>
>>>>
>>>> list_of_files = glob.glob('C:\Python27\*.*')
>>
>>  >
>>>
>>> 1/ Your file pattern search will not get files that do not have any
>>> dot in
>>> their name
>>
>>
>> Actually, on Windows, it will. (This is for compatibility with
>> MS-DOS 8.3 filenames, where the dot wasn't actually stored, so
>> there was no distinction between a filename with a dot and an
>> empty extension, and a filename with no dot.)
>>
>
> That's certainly true at the command line in Windows DOS box, but I'd be
> astounded if glob used the same logic, even on Winodows.

Easily verified, as I have a Windows box handy.

>>> glob.glob("C:\\Python27\\*")
['C:\\Python27\\DLLs', 'C:\\Python27\\Doc', 'C:\\Python27\\include', 'C:\\Python
27\\Lib', 'C:\\Python27\\libs', 'C:\\Python27\\LICENSE.txt', 'C:\\Python27\\NEWS
.txt', 'C:\\Python27\\python.exe', 'C:\\Python27\\pythonw.exe', 'C:\\Python27\\p
ywin32-wininst.log', 'C:\\Python27\\README.txt', 'C:\\Python27\\Removepywin32.ex
e', 'C:\\Python27\\Scripts', 'C:\\Python27\\tcl', 'C:\\Python27\\Tools', 'C:\\Py
thon27\\w9xpopen.exe']
>>> glob.glob("C:\\Python27\\*.*")
['C:\\Python27\\LICENSE.txt', 'C:\\Python27\\NEWS.txt', 'C:\\Python27\\python.ex
e', 'C:\\Python27\\pythonw.exe', 'C:\\Python27\\pywin32-wininst.log', 'C:\\Pytho
n27\\README.txt', 'C:\\Python27\\Removepywin32.exe', 'C:\\Python27\\w9xpopen.exe
']

Jean-Michel's right, *.* implies a contained dot.

Also, it's worth noting that just * works fine at the command line,
too. The use of *.* to mean "everything" is outdated and should be
considered deprecated (but then, so should backslashes as directory
separators IMO).

ChrisA


From rosuav at gmail.com  Thu Apr 23 10:25:39 2015
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2015 00:25:39 +1000
Subject: Urjent Requirements :1.Agile Coach, 2.Technical Analyst :- Remedy
 3.Technical Analyst :- Internet Explorer, Location:-Bloomington, IL.
In-Reply-To: <8309c5f2-e1e7-4609-8354-391645f0be63@googlegroups.com>
References: <8309c5f2-e1e7-4609-8354-391645f0be63@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmo9rQ_LZizU0AwCCbrgrD=mK0-xFuMNgRYaksZvn=Y=kg@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Apr 24, 2015 at 12:17 AM, nagaraju thoudoju
<nagarajuusstaffing at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> Hope you are doing well,
>
> Please find the requirement below and let me know you interest on this position
> (chomp chomp)

Please don't spam this list with job ads that have nothing whatsoever
to do with Python. Go earn your agency fees actually doing some work,
instead of just spamming mailing lists/newsgroups in bulk.

ChrisA


From yanxiaopei199 at gmail.com  Thu Apr 23 10:27:53 2015
From: yanxiaopei199 at gmail.com (Thanatos xiao)
Date: Thu, 23 Apr 2015 22:27:53 +0800
Subject: HELP! about long polling!!!
Message-ID: <CAF0POcu2fdipZ6Qr2JvUzxB5ug8EV4weHWS=4GoqkB1EniiLBg@mail.gmail.com>

Hi all:
Now I develop an ios app, which need use long polling. when server have
data, the server push data to ios app.  I use django to backend,

Can give me some advice or example ?

ths
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/attachments/20150423/5c9caa5d/attachment.html>

From yacinechaouche at yahoo.com  Thu Apr 23 10:35:22 2015
From: yacinechaouche at yahoo.com (Yassine Chaouche)
Date: Thu, 23 Apr 2015 07:35:22 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: How to write a non blocking SimpleHTTPRequestHandler ?
In-Reply-To: <942d5fa5-ecec-4855-a252-c4ff972826ab@googlegroups.com>
References: <d18abcc8-768b-4230-814b-122211cbf649@googlegroups.com>
 <942d5fa5-ecec-4855-a252-c4ff972826ab@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <493c77d1-8fbb-43ef-868b-4ac4083f0763@googlegroups.com>

Here is a simple multi-threaded python web application that uses only the stanard library modules : 





#!/usr/bin/env python
#-*- encoding=utf-8 -*-
import SimpleHTTPServer
import BaseHTTPServer
import SocketServer

class MyServer(SocketServer.ThreadingMixIn,BaseHTTPServer.HTTPServer):
    pass

class Handler(SimpleHTTPServer.SimpleHTTPRequestHandler):
    def do_GET(self):
        self.send_response(200)
        self.send_header('Content-Type', 'text/html')
        self.end_headers()
        self.wfile.write("Hello world \n")

IP,PORT = "",8010

server = MyServer((IP,PORT),Handler)
server.serve_forever()








It will send Hello world followed by a newline (so that when you invoke curl on the terminal it will nicely put the shell prompt a newline). You can simulate a non-responsive client with this little script : 




import socket
import requests

# This will leave an open a connection to our app.
conn = socket.create_connection(('localhost',8010))

# This will never get anything until conn.close() is called.
print requests.get('http://localhost:8010').text.strip()






If you don't inherit from the ThreadingMixIn, the application will get stuck when you launch the client script and any further requests (use curl or wget for example) will simply be postponed until client.py is killed.

If you inherit from ThreadingMixIn, the application will nicely run the request handler on a new thread, making way for further requests to be handled.



From subhabrata.banerji at gmail.com  Thu Apr 23 10:50:42 2015
From: subhabrata.banerji at gmail.com (subhabrata.banerji at gmail.com)
Date: Thu, 23 Apr 2015 07:50:42 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Boolean Search using Strings
Message-ID: <6b998054-abfb-4cf2-8607-0a3d9b949cc8@googlegroups.com>

Dear Group,

I want to do the Boolean search over various sentences or documents.
I do not want to use special programs like Whoosh, etc.
May I use any other parser?
If anybody may kindly let me know.

Regards,
Subhabrata Banerjee. 



From smaldone at gmail.com  Thu Apr 23 11:05:09 2015
From: smaldone at gmail.com (Steve Smaldone)
Date: Thu, 23 Apr 2015 11:05:09 -0400
Subject: Diff between object graphs?
In-Reply-To: <6902B9A8-8187-4E98-8472-1A4503F1292D@gmail.com>
References: <78DAD20A-71C4-4EE9-AA85-935822A470AF@gmail.com>
 <mh85kk$5g1$1@ger.gmane.org>
 <F053A223-0208-457B-A5DF-5360EF9748F9@gmail.com>
 <55384CDE.5020800@davea.name>
 <CAPTjJmqF7Dcma=Yh-mU+3c_PbHe0iba4m7_XtM3C71Kj2O2bDQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.81.1429754041.31470.python-list@python.org>
 <55388a2e$0$12999$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <6902B9A8-8187-4E98-8472-1A4503F1292D@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CADGykufad+OZ8iJUiYTbMt=V6VMWuPe1GemWg7HwwvK9Wjw4JQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Apr 23, 2015 at 6:34 AM, Cem Karan <cfkaran2 at gmail.com> wrote:

>
> On Apr 23, 2015, at 1:59 AM, Steven D'Aprano <
> steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info> wrote:
>
> > On Thursday 23 April 2015 11:53, Cem Karan wrote:
> >
> >> Precisely.  In order to make my simulations more realistic, I use a lot
> of
> >> random numbers.  I can fake things by keeping the seed to the generator,
> >> but if I want to do any sort of hardware in the loop simulations, then
> >> that approach won't work.
> >
> > That's exactly why we have *pseudo* random number generators. They are
> > statistically indistinguishable from "real" randomness, but repeatable
> when
> > needed.
>
> Which is why is why I mentioned keeping the seed above.  The problem is
> that I eventually want to do hardware in the loop, which will involve IO
> between the simulation machine and the actual robots, and IO timing is
> imprecise and uncontrollable.  That is where not recording something
> becomes lossy.  That said, the mere act of trying to record everything is
> going to cause timing issues, so I guess I'm over thinking things yet again.
>
> Thanks for the help everyone, its helped me clarify what I need to do in
> my mind.
>
>
Well, you could achieve this on Linux by using the rdiff library.  Not
exactly a purely Python solution, but it would give you file-based diffs.

Basically, what you could do is write the first file.  Then for each
subsequent saves, write out the file (as a temp file) and issue shell
commands (via the Python script) to calculate the diffs of the new file
against the first (basis) file.  Once you remove the temp files, you'd have
a full first save and a set of diffs against that file.  You could
rehydrate any save you want by applying the diff to the basis.

If you work on it a bit, you might even be able to avoid the temp file
saves by using pipes in the shell command.

Of course, I haven't tested this so there may be non-obvious issues with
diffing between subsequent pickled saves, but it seems that it should work
on the surface.

Good luck!

SS
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/attachments/20150423/62d047ba/attachment.html>

From coreyahmet at gmail.com  Thu Apr 23 11:51:20 2015
From: coreyahmet at gmail.com (brokolists)
Date: Thu, 23 Apr 2015 08:51:20 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: can you help guys?
Message-ID: <9ab3f79f-6956-498b-a49a-1d00ad9d0cdb@googlegroups.com>

my problem is i m working with very long float numbers and i use
numberx =float(( input( 'enter the number\n ')))
after i use this command when i enter something more than 10 or 11 digits it uses like 1e+10 or something like that
but i have to calculate it without scientific 'e' type. what can i do to solve this?
(sorry for my bad english)


From jackdied at gmail.com  Thu Apr 23 11:55:23 2015
From: jackdied at gmail.com (Jack Diederich)
Date: Thu, 23 Apr 2015 11:55:23 -0400
Subject: Boolean Search using Strings
In-Reply-To: <6b998054-abfb-4cf2-8607-0a3d9b949cc8@googlegroups.com>
References: <6b998054-abfb-4cf2-8607-0a3d9b949cc8@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <CACLn2+0KT8NnbZSAdo47GzqxzOcf-5FsuT4xRgaRhGYEhpYHuA@mail.gmail.com>

Here is an old one I wrote. Good for small collections of documents and
uncomplicated queries.

https://github.com/jackdied/boolmatch

-Jack

On Thu, Apr 23, 2015 at 10:50 AM, <subhabrata.banerji at gmail.com> wrote:

> Dear Group,
>
> I want to do the Boolean search over various sentences or documents.
> I do not want to use special programs like Whoosh, etc.
> May I use any other parser?
> If anybody may kindly let me know.
>
> Regards,
> Subhabrata Banerjee.
>
> --
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/attachments/20150423/0b268370/attachment.html>

From elchino at cnn.cn  Thu Apr 23 13:29:04 2015
From: elchino at cnn.cn (ElChino)
Date: Thu, 23 Apr 2015 19:29:04 +0200
Subject: [OT] Git for nazis
In-Reply-To: <mailman.99.1429801544.31470.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.99.1429801544.31470.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <mhba2t$8gs$1@dont-email.me>

Albert-Jan Roskam wrote:

> Just had to share this:
> https://youtu.be/CDeG4S-mJts

"Linus had a a weekend coding binge, jacked
  up on blow in Vegas".

Sounds pretty accurate.




From ian.g.kelly at gmail.com  Thu Apr 23 14:44:22 2015
From: ian.g.kelly at gmail.com (Ian Kelly)
Date: Thu, 23 Apr 2015 12:44:22 -0600
Subject: can you help guys?
In-Reply-To: <9ab3f79f-6956-498b-a49a-1d00ad9d0cdb@googlegroups.com>
References: <9ab3f79f-6956-498b-a49a-1d00ad9d0cdb@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <CALwzidnz6YoWSJm+Zg04ePPuQzEEy3b0g7pOukKmjEQqXgNCAQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Apr 23, 2015 at 9:51 AM, brokolists <coreyahmet at gmail.com> wrote:
> my problem is i m working with very long float numbers and i use
> numberx =float(( input( 'enter the number\n ')))
> after i use this command when i enter something more than 10 or 11 digits it uses like 1e+10 or something like that
> but i have to calculate it without scientific 'e' type. what can i do to solve this?
> (sorry for my bad english)

That's just how the number is formatted for output by default. It has
nothing to do with how the number is handled in memory. You can
prevent it from outputting scientific notation using the 'f' format
specifier. Pick whichever example best suits your use.

>>> num = 12345678901234567890.
>>> print(num)
1.2345678901234567e+19
>>> print('%f' % num)  # Using percent formatting
12345678901234567168.000000
>>> print('{:f}'.format(num))  # Using the str.format method
12345678901234567168.000000
>>> print(format(num, 'f'))  # Using the format builtin
12345678901234567168.000000

Now, if you're working with very long floats then you're probably also
running into precision issues, as you can see in the examples above.
If the precision is important to you, then you may want to consider
using decimals instead of floats.


From harrismh777 at gmail.com  Thu Apr 23 15:24:24 2015
From: harrismh777 at gmail.com (Mark H Harris)
Date: Thu, 23 Apr 2015 14:24:24 -0500
Subject: micro python and Jaltek systems pyboard
Message-ID: <mhbgt6$c46$1@speranza.aioe.org>

Greetings, anyone using micro python or Jaltek System's pyboard designed 
to run it?

http://micropython.org/


Cheers,
marcus
:)


From oscar.j.benjamin at gmail.com  Thu Apr 23 17:39:53 2015
From: oscar.j.benjamin at gmail.com (Oscar Benjamin)
Date: Thu, 23 Apr 2015 22:39:53 +0100
Subject: multiprocessing module and matplotlib.pyplot/PdfPages
In-Reply-To: <mh5ror$cs5$1@speranza.aioe.org>
References: <mh4bph$t8e$1@speranza.aioe.org>
 <mailman.32.1429612012.31470.python-list@python.org>
 <mh5ror$cs5$1@speranza.aioe.org>
Message-ID: <CAHVvXxR6h3b97Qm4vHmC-2M=U8H9Gn_S+PrKZ+ak7-udnY7tfg@mail.gmail.com>

On 21 April 2015 at 16:53, Paulo da Silva
<p_s_d_a_s_i_l_v_a_ns at netcabo.pt> wrote:
> On 21-04-2015 11:26, Dave Angel wrote:
>> On 04/20/2015 10:14 PM, Paulo da Silva wrote:
>>> I have program that generates about 100 relatively complex graphics and
>>> writes then to a pdf book.
>>> It takes a while!
>>> Is there any possibility of using multiprocessing to build the graphics
>>> and then use several calls to savefig(), i.e. some kind of graphic's
>>> objects?
>>>
>>
> ...
>
>>
>> If the 100 plots are really quite independent, you could also consider
>> recruiting time from multiple machines.  As long as the data that needs
>> to go between them is not too large, it can pay off big time.
>>
> Sorry if I was not clear.
>
> Yes, I have 8 cores and the graphics' processes calculation are all
> independent. The problem I have is that if there is any way to generate
> independent figures in matplotlib. The logic seems to be build the
> graphic and save it. I was trying to know if there is any way to build
> graphic objects that can be built in parallel and, at the end, saved by
> the controller task.

Hi Paulo,

It sounds like you're using matplotlib's "stateful" API. This is a
convenience layer for interactive work so that you can  do something
like:

from pylab import *

plot([0, 1], [0, 1])
savefig('plot.pdf')

For normal code it is recommended to use the "object-oriented" API
which looks like:

from matplotlib.pyplot import figure

fig = figure(figsize=(4, 5))
ax = fig.add_axes([0.15, 0.15, 0.70, 0.70])
ax.plot([0, 1], [0, 1])
fig.savefig('plot.pdf')

When using this API it is entirely possible to create many figures in
parallel using e.g. multiprocessing.

I can't  find a good reference to explain this API but this  page mentions it:
http://matplotlib.org/faq/usage_faq.html

However each figure comes with a significant memory overhead and the
call to savefig can be the most CPU-intensive part so I  wouldn't
recommend to build a  list  of figures and savefig them at the end.
Another approach is to also save them in parallel as  1.pdf, 2.pdf
etc. then using  something like pdftk to merge the PDF pages at the
end.


Oscar


From steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info  Thu Apr 23 19:19:50 2015
From: steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2015 09:19:50 +1000
Subject: can you help guys?
References: <9ab3f79f-6956-498b-a49a-1d00ad9d0cdb@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <55397e17$0$12977$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

On Fri, 24 Apr 2015 01:51 am, brokolists wrote:

> my problem is i m working with very long float numbers and i use
> numberx =float(( input( 'enter the number\n ')))
> after i use this command when i enter something more than 10 or 11 digits
> it uses like 1e+10 or something like that but i have to calculate it
> without scientific 'e' type. what can i do to solve this? (sorry for my
> bad english)


Are you sure? Can you give an example? This works for me:

py> s = input("Enter a number: ")
Enter a number: 0.123456789012345
py> len(s) - 2  # Number of digits
15
py> x = float(s)
py> print(x)
0.123456789012345

Maybe you shouldn't be using floats:

py> n = int(input("Enter a number: "))
Enter a number: 123456789012345678901234567890
py> print(n)
123456789012345678901234567890
py> print(n+1)
123456789012345678901234567891


Integers will not use scientific "e" notation, but floats will. But that is
only the *display* format:

py> x = float(input("Enter a number in Sci format: "))
Enter a number in Sci format: 1.234e10
py> print(x)
12340000000.0
py> print("%f" % x)
12340000000.000000
py> print("%g" % x)
1.234e+10

Notice that displaying the float with %f and %g format codes look different,
but are the same number.

You will need to explain more about what you are trying to do before we can
give you good advise. Perhaps if you show us some examples?




-- 
Steven



From narkewoody at gmail.com  Thu Apr 23 23:01:04 2015
From: narkewoody at gmail.com (Steven Woody)
Date: Thu, 23 Apr 2015 20:01:04 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Took too long time to start before executing my first line of code
Message-ID: <5eff8f84-23fc-4f72-96e2-f7c7fee5d5d6@googlegroups.com>

Hi,

I got a problem and hope your gurus can show me some clues.

I run python on an embedded ARM system.  Everything is fine except that it seems every program need 3s+ time to load -- I mean it took 3s before executing the first line of every program.

I run strace but cannot identify the true problem,  can you have a look at the below strace output and check is there anything unusual?  Thanks in advance.

---cut start---
10:59:51.615872 execve("./a.py", ["./a.py"], [/* 30 vars */]) = 0
10:59:51.629981 brk(0)                  = 0x16000
10:59:51.636587 uname({sys="Linux", node="FFC3", ...}) = 0
10:59:51.644010 access("/etc/ld.so.preload", R_OK) = -1 ENOENT (No such file or directory)
10:59:51.651538 open("/etc/ld.so.cache", O_RDONLY|O_CLOEXEC) = 3
10:59:51.652945 fstat64(3, {st_mode=S_IFREG|0644, st_size=25193, ...}) = 0
10:59:51.660953 mmap2(NULL, 25193, PROT_READ, MAP_PRIVATE, 3, 0) = 0x400ce000
10:59:51.662309 close(3)                = 0
10:59:51.663520 open("/lib/libgcc_s.so.1", O_RDONLY|O_CLOEXEC) = 3
10:59:51.664978 read(3, "\177ELF\1\1\1\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\3\0(\0\1\0\0\0(\320\0\0004\0\0\0"..., 512) = 512
10:59:51.671837 fstat64(3, {st_mode=S_IFREG|0755, st_size=133660, ...}) = 0
10:59:51.674480 mmap2(NULL, 4096, PROT_READ|PROT_WRITE, MAP_PRIVATE|MAP_ANONYMOUS, -1, 0) = 0x40166000
10:59:51.676166 mmap2(NULL, 165176, PROT_READ|PROT_EXEC, MAP_PRIVATE|MAP_DENYWRITE, 3, 0) = 0x401a5000
10:59:51.677422 mprotect(0x401c6000, 28672, PROT_NONE) = 0
10:59:51.678618 mmap2(0x401cd000, 4096, PROT_READ|PROT_WRITE, MAP_PRIVATE|MAP_FIXED|MAP_DENYWRITE, 3, 0x20000) = 0x401cd000
10:59:51.679974 close(3)                = 0
10:59:51.686401 open("/lib/libc.so.6", O_RDONLY|O_CLOEXEC) = 3
10:59:51.687826 read(3, "\177ELF\1\1\1\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\3\0(\0\1\0\0\0\274\201\1\0004\0\0\0"..., 512) = 512
10:59:51.689408 fstat64(3, {st_mode=S_IFREG|0755, st_size=1254532, ...}) = 0
10:59:51.697454 mmap2(NULL, 1295760, PROT_READ|PROT_EXEC, MAP_PRIVATE|MAP_DENYWRITE, 3, 0) = 0x401ce000
10:59:51.698643 mprotect(0x402fd000, 32768, PROT_NONE) = 0
10:59:51.699771 mmap2(0x40305000, 12288, PROT_READ|PROT_WRITE, MAP_PRIVATE|MAP_FIXED|MAP_DENYWRITE, 3, 0x12f000) = 0x40305000
10:59:51.706489 mmap2(0x40308000, 9616, PROT_READ|PROT_WRITE, MAP_PRIVATE|MAP_FIXED|MAP_ANONYMOUS, -1, 0) = 0x40308000
10:59:51.707888 close(3)                = 0
10:59:51.709232 mmap2(NULL, 4096, PROT_READ|PROT_WRITE, MAP_PRIVATE|MAP_ANONYMOUS, -1, 0) = 0x4007f000
10:59:51.715685 set_tls(0x4007f4c0, 0x4007fb98, 0x40112058, 0x4007f4c0, 0x40112058) = 0
10:59:51.718582 mprotect(0x40305000, 8192, PROT_READ) = 0
10:59:51.725269 mprotect(0x40111000, 4096, PROT_READ) = 0
10:59:51.726390 munmap(0x400ce000, 25193) = 0
10:59:51.729425 brk(0)                  = 0x16000
10:59:51.735659 brk(0x37000)            = 0x37000
10:59:51.737164 execve("/bin/python", ["python", "./a.py"], [/* 30 vars */]) = -1 ENOENT (No such file or directory)
10:59:51.746368 execve("/sbin/python", ["python", "./a.py"], [/* 30 vars */]) = -1 ENOENT (No such file or directory)
10:59:51.755206 execve("/usr/bin/python", ["python", "./a.py"], [/* 30 vars */]) = 0
10:59:51.762688 brk(0)                  = 0x11000
10:59:51.763926 uname({sys="Linux", node="FFC3", ...}) = 0
10:59:51.780735 access("/etc/ld.so.preload", R_OK) = -1 ENOENT (No such file or directory)
10:59:51.782585 open("/etc/ld.so.cache", O_RDONLY|O_CLOEXEC) = 3
10:59:51.784086 fstat64(3, {st_mode=S_IFREG|0644, st_size=25193, ...}) = 0
10:59:51.791800 mmap2(NULL, 25193, PROT_READ, MAP_PRIVATE, 3, 0) = 0x40094000
10:59:51.792826 close(3)                = 0
10:59:51.794020 open("/usr/lib/libpython2.7.so.1.0", O_RDONLY|O_CLOEXEC) = 3
10:59:51.801063 read(3, "\177ELF\1\1\1\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\3\0(\0\1\0\0\0\344\371\1\0004\0\0\0"..., 512) = 512
10:59:51.802651 fstat64(3, {st_mode=S_IFREG|0555, st_size=5496357, ...}) = 0
10:59:51.805532 mmap2(NULL, 4096, PROT_READ|PROT_WRITE, MAP_PRIVATE|MAP_ANONYMOUS, -1, 0) = 0x40198000
10:59:51.806731 mmap2(NULL, 1492672, PROT_READ|PROT_EXEC, MAP_PRIVATE|MAP_DENYWRITE, 3, 0) = 0x40251000
10:59:51.807986 mprotect(0x4039a000, 28672, PROT_NONE) = 0
10:59:51.809177 mmap2(0x403a1000, 77824, PROT_READ|PROT_WRITE, MAP_PRIVATE|MAP_FIXED|MAP_DENYWRITE, 3, 0x148000) = 0x403a1000
10:59:51.815967 mmap2(0x403b4000, 38592, PROT_READ|PROT_WRITE, MAP_PRIVATE|MAP_FIXED|MAP_ANONYMOUS, -1, 0) = 0x403b4000
10:59:51.817451 close(3)                = 0
10:59:51.818641 open("/lib/libpthread.so.0", O_RDONLY|O_CLOEXEC) = 3
10:59:51.819991 read(3, "\177ELF\1\1\1\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\3\0(\0\1\0\0\0lZ\0\0004\0\0\0"..., 512) = 512
10:59:51.826883 fstat64(3, {st_mode=S_IFREG|0755, st_size=127839, ...}) = 0
10:59:51.829478 mmap2(NULL, 131624, PROT_READ|PROT_EXEC, MAP_PRIVATE|MAP_DENYWRITE, 3, 0) = 0x4005e000
10:59:51.830829 mprotect(0x40073000, 32768, PROT_NONE) = 0
10:59:51.832022 mmap2(0x4007b000, 8192, PROT_READ|PROT_WRITE, MAP_PRIVATE|MAP_FIXED|MAP_DENYWRITE, 3, 0x15000) = 0x4007b000
10:59:51.833549 mmap2(0x4007d000, 4648, PROT_READ|PROT_WRITE, MAP_PRIVATE|MAP_FIXED|MAP_ANONYMOUS, -1, 0) = 0x4007d000
10:59:51.834929 close(3)                = 0
10:59:51.841532 open("/lib/libdl.so.2", O_RDONLY|O_CLOEXEC) = 3
10:59:51.842964 read(3, "\177ELF\1\1\1\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\3\0(\0\1\0\0\0\330\n\0\0004\0\0\0"..., 512) = 512
10:59:51.844560 fstat64(3, {st_mode=S_IFREG|0755, st_size=18008, ...}) = 0
10:59:51.852483 mmap2(NULL, 49372, PROT_READ|PROT_EXEC, MAP_PRIVATE|MAP_DENYWRITE, 3, 0) = 0x400ac000
10:59:51.853680 mprotect(0x400b0000, 28672, PROT_NONE) = 0
10:59:51.854812 mmap2(0x400b7000, 8192, PROT_READ|PROT_WRITE, MAP_PRIVATE|MAP_FIXED|MAP_DENYWRITE, 3, 0x3000) = 0x400b7000
10:59:51.873934 close(3)                = 0
10:59:51.885271 open("/lib/libutil.so.1", O_RDONLY|O_CLOEXEC) = 3
10:59:51.886703 read(3, "\177ELF\1\1\1\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\3\0(\0\1\0\0\0\200\v\0\0004\0\0\0"..., 512) = 512
10:59:51.888299 fstat64(3, {st_mode=S_IFREG|0755, st_size=13944, ...}) = 0
10:59:51.901166 mmap2(NULL, 45264, PROT_READ|PROT_EXEC, MAP_PRIVATE|MAP_DENYWRITE, 3, 0) = 0x40041000
10:59:51.902360 mprotect(0x40044000, 28672, PROT_NONE) = 0
10:59:51.903471 mmap2(0x4004b000, 8192, PROT_READ|PROT_WRITE, MAP_PRIVATE|MAP_FIXED|MAP_DENYWRITE, 3, 0x2000) = 0x4004b000
10:59:51.904935 close(3)                = 0
10:59:51.916299 open("/lib/libm.so.6", O_RDONLY|O_CLOEXEC) = 3
10:59:51.917663 read(3, "\177ELF\1\1\1\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\3\0(\0\1\0\0\0\0>\0\0004\0\0\0"..., 512) = 512
10:59:51.919088 fstat64(3, {st_mode=S_IFREG|0755, st_size=632404, ...}) = 0
10:59:51.931764 mmap2(NULL, 663728, PROT_READ|PROT_EXEC, MAP_PRIVATE|MAP_DENYWRITE, 3, 0) = 0x40199000
10:59:51.932796 mprotect(0x40233000, 28672, PROT_NONE) = 0
10:59:51.933931 mmap2(0x4023a000, 8192, PROT_READ|PROT_WRITE, MAP_PRIVATE|MAP_FIXED|MAP_DENYWRITE, 3, 0x99000) = 0x4023a000
10:59:51.940760 close(3)                = 0
10:59:51.942052 open("/lib/libgcc_s.so.1", O_RDONLY|O_CLOEXEC) = 3
10:59:51.943580 read(3, "\177ELF\1\1\1\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\3\0(\0\1\0\0\0(\320\0\0004\0\0\0"..., 512) = 512
10:59:51.945513 fstat64(3, {st_mode=S_IFREG|0755, st_size=133660, ...}) = 0
10:59:51.952695 mmap2(NULL, 165176, PROT_READ|PROT_EXEC, MAP_PRIVATE|MAP_DENYWRITE, 3, 0) = 0x40105000
10:59:51.953894 mprotect(0x40126000, 28672, PROT_NONE) = 0
10:59:51.965338 mmap2(0x4012d000, 4096, PROT_READ|PROT_WRITE, MAP_PRIVATE|MAP_FIXED|MAP_DENYWRITE, 3, 0x20000) = 0x4012d000
10:59:51.966809 close(3)                = 0
10:59:51.968050 open("/lib/libc.so.6", O_RDONLY|O_CLOEXEC) = 3
10:59:51.969479 read(3, "\177ELF\1\1\1\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\3\0(\0\1\0\0\0\274\201\1\0004\0\0\0"..., 512) = 512
10:59:51.981400 fstat64(3, {st_mode=S_IFREG|0755, st_size=1254532, ...}) = 0
10:59:51.983973 mmap2(NULL, 4096, PROT_READ|PROT_WRITE, MAP_PRIVATE|MAP_ANONYMOUS, -1, 0) = 0x4007f000
10:59:51.990703 mmap2(NULL, 1295760, PROT_READ|PROT_EXEC, MAP_PRIVATE|MAP_DENYWRITE, 3, 0) = 0x403be000
10:59:51.991975 mprotect(0x404ed000, 32768, PROT_NONE) = 0
10:59:51.993173 mmap2(0x404f5000, 12288, PROT_READ|PROT_WRITE, MAP_PRIVATE|MAP_FIXED|MAP_DENYWRITE, 3, 0x12f000) = 0x404f5000
10:59:51.994788 mmap2(0x404f8000, 9616, PROT_READ|PROT_WRITE, MAP_PRIVATE|MAP_FIXED|MAP_ANONYMOUS, -1, 0) = 0x404f8000
10:59:52.001830 close(3)                = 0
10:59:52.003467 mmap2(NULL, 4096, PROT_READ|PROT_WRITE, MAP_PRIVATE|MAP_ANONYMOUS, -1, 0) = 0x400a6000
10:59:52.004785 set_tls(0x400a64c0, 0x400a6b98, 0x40104058, 0x400a64c0, 0x40104058) = 0
10:59:52.019136 mprotect(0x404f5000, 8192, PROT_READ) = 0
10:59:52.031126 mprotect(0x4023a000, 4096, PROT_READ) = 0
10:59:52.032551 mprotect(0x4004b000, 4096, PROT_READ) = 0
10:59:52.034079 mprotect(0x400b7000, 4096, PROT_READ) = 0
10:59:52.125865 mprotect(0x4007b000, 4096, PROT_READ) = 0
10:59:52.138885 mprotect(0x40103000, 4096, PROT_READ) = 0
10:59:52.140433 munmap(0x40094000, 25193) = 0
10:59:52.141710 set_tid_address(0x400a6068) = 585
10:59:52.142559 set_robust_list(0x400a6070, 12) = 0
10:59:52.143514 futex(0xbeb2a658, FUTEX_WAKE_PRIVATE, 1) = 0
10:59:52.144609 futex(0xbeb2a658, FUTEX_WAIT_BITSET_PRIVATE|FUTEX_CLOCK_REALTIME, 1, NULL, 400a64c0) = -1 EAGAIN (Resource temporarily unavailable)
10:59:52.152502 rt_sigaction(SIGRTMIN, {0x40063510, [], SA_SIGINFO|0x4000000}, NULL, 8) = 0
10:59:52.154524 rt_sigaction(SIGRT_1, {0x400633a4, [], SA_RESTART|SA_SIGINFO|0x4000000}, NULL, 8) = 0
10:59:52.156517 rt_sigprocmask(SIG_UNBLOCK, [RTMIN RT_1], NULL, 8) = 0
10:59:52.157893 getrlimit(RLIMIT_STACK, {rlim_cur=18014398505295872*1024, rlim_max=9223372037928924068}) = 0
10:59:52.166768 ioctl(0, SNDCTL_TMR_TIMEBASE or SNDRV_TIMER_IOCTL_NEXT_DEVICE or TCGETS, {B38400 opost isig icanon echo ...}) = 0
10:59:52.169689 brk(0)                  = 0x11000
10:59:52.175582 brk(0x32000)            = 0x32000
10:59:52.177662 mmap2(NULL, 266240, PROT_READ|PROT_WRITE, MAP_PRIVATE|MAP_ANONYMOUS, -1, 0) = 0x4012e000
10:59:52.186930 open("/proc/meminfo", O_RDONLY|O_CLOEXEC) = 3
10:59:52.188614 fcntl64(3, F_GETFD)     = 0x1 (flags FD_CLOEXEC)
10:59:52.189947 fstat64(3, {st_mode=S_IFREG|0444, st_size=0, ...}) = 0
10:59:52.192805 mmap2(NULL, 4096, PROT_READ|PROT_WRITE, MAP_PRIVATE|MAP_ANONYMOUS, -1, 0) = 0x40034000
10:59:52.194001 read(3, "MemTotal:         125156 kB\nMemF"..., 1024) = 924
10:59:52.201908 close(3)                = 0
10:59:52.203061 munmap(0x40034000, 4096) = 0
10:59:52.307599 fstat64(0, {st_mode=S_IFCHR|0620, st_rdev=makedev(136, 0), ...}) = 0
10:59:52.315959 fstat64(0, {st_mode=S_IFCHR|0620, st_rdev=makedev(136, 0), ...}) = 0
10:59:52.318638 fstat64(1, {st_mode=S_IFREG|0644, st_size=10036, ...}) = 0
10:59:52.321577 fstat64(2, {st_mode=S_IFREG|0644, st_size=10111, ...}) = 0
10:59:52.330490 stat64("/bin/python", 0xbeb29448) = -1 ENOENT (No such file or directory)
10:59:52.331843 stat64("/sbin/python", 0xbeb29448) = -1 ENOENT (No such file or directory)
10:59:52.333249 stat64("/usr/bin/python", {st_mode=S_IFREG|0755, st_size=3820, ...}) = 0
10:59:52.341665 readlink("/usr/bin/python", "python2", 4096) = 7
10:59:52.343189 readlink("/usr/bin/python2", "python2.7", 4096) = 9
10:59:52.344770 readlink("/usr/bin/python2.7", 0xbeb29448, 4096) = -1 EINVAL (Invalid argument)
10:59:52.352667 stat64("/usr/bin/Modules/Setup", 0xbeb29448) = -1 ENOENT (No such file or directory)
10:59:52.354200 stat64("/usr/bin/lib/python2.7/os.py", 0xbeb29448) = -1 ENOENT (No such file or directory)
10:59:52.361159 stat64("/usr/bin/lib/python2.7/os.pyc", 0xbeb29448) = -1 ENOENT (No such file or directory)
10:59:52.362849 stat64("/usr/lib/python2.7/os.py", 0xbeb29448) = -1 ENOENT (No such file or directory)
10:59:52.364488 stat64("/usr/lib/python2.7/os.pyc", {st_mode=S_IFREG|0644, st_size=25451, ...}) = 0
10:59:52.367812 stat64("/usr/bin/Modules/Setup", 0xbeb283d8) = -1 ENOENT (No such file or directory)
10:59:52.369337 stat64("/usr/bin/lib/python2.7/lib-dynload", 0xbeb283d8) = -1 ENOENT (No such file or directory)
10:59:52.376348 stat64("/usr/lib/python2.7/lib-dynload", {st_mode=S_IFDIR|0755, st_size=4176, ...}) = 0
10:59:52.436817 rt_sigaction(SIGPIPE, {SIG_IGN, [], 0x4000000 /* SA_??? */}, {SIG_DFL, [], 0}, 8) = 0
10:59:52.439224 rt_sigaction(SIGXFSZ, {SIG_IGN, [], 0x4000000 /* SA_??? */}, {SIG_DFL, [], 0}, 8) = 0
10:59:52.442631 rt_sigaction(SIGHUP, NULL, {SIG_DFL, [], 0}, 8) = 0
10:59:52.444317 rt_sigaction(SIGINT, NULL, {SIG_DFL, [], 0}, 8) = 0
10:59:52.452262 rt_sigaction(SIGQUIT, NULL, {SIG_DFL, [], 0}, 8) = 0
10:59:52.453949 rt_sigaction(SIGILL, NULL, {SIG_DFL, [], 0}, 8) = 0
10:59:52.461019 rt_sigaction(SIGTRAP, NULL, {SIG_DFL, [], 0}, 8) = 0
10:59:52.462705 rt_sigaction(SIGABRT, NULL, {SIG_DFL, [], 0}, 8) = 0
10:59:52.464314 rt_sigaction(SIGBUS, NULL, {SIG_DFL, [], 0}, 8) = 0
10:59:52.471259 rt_sigaction(SIGFPE, NULL, {SIG_DFL, [], 0}, 8) = 0
10:59:52.472955 rt_sigaction(SIGKILL, NULL, {SIG_DFL, [], 0}, 8) = 0
10:59:52.474729 rt_sigaction(SIGUSR1, NULL, {SIG_DFL, [], 0}, 8) = 0
10:59:52.476690 rt_sigaction(SIGSEGV, NULL, {SIG_DFL, [], 0}, 8) = 0
10:59:52.478300 rt_sigaction(SIGUSR2, NULL, {SIG_DFL, [], 0}, 8) = 0
10:59:52.479841 rt_sigaction(SIGPIPE, NULL, {SIG_IGN, [], 0x4000000 /* SA_??? */}, 8) = 0
10:59:52.486961 rt_sigaction(SIGALRM, NULL, {SIG_DFL, [], 0}, 8) = 0
10:59:52.488643 rt_sigaction(SIGTERM, NULL, {SIG_DFL, [], 0}, 8) = 0
10:59:52.490611 rt_sigaction(SIGSTKFLT, NULL, {SIG_DFL, [], 0}, 8) = 0
10:59:52.492234 rt_sigaction(SIGCHLD, NULL, {SIG_DFL, [], 0}, 8) = 0
10:59:52.493760 rt_sigaction(SIGCONT, NULL, {SIG_DFL, [], 0}, 8) = 0
10:59:52.500979 rt_sigaction(SIGSTOP, NULL, {SIG_DFL, [], 0}, 8) = 0
10:59:52.502674 rt_sigaction(SIGTSTP, NULL, {SIG_DFL, [], 0}, 8) = 0
10:59:52.504362 rt_sigaction(SIGTTIN, NULL, {SIG_DFL, [], 0}, 8) = 0
10:59:52.511371 rt_sigaction(SIGTTOU, NULL, {SIG_DFL, [], 0}, 8) = 0
10:59:52.513068 rt_sigaction(SIGURG, NULL, {SIG_DFL, [], 0}, 8) = 0
10:59:52.514760 rt_sigaction(SIGXCPU, NULL, {SIG_DFL, [], 0}, 8) = 0
10:59:52.521552 rt_sigaction(SIGXFSZ, NULL, {SIG_IGN, [], 0x4000000 /* SA_??? */}, 8) = 0
10:59:52.523259 rt_sigaction(SIGVTALRM, NULL, {SIG_DFL, [], 0}, 8) = 0
10:59:52.524937 rt_sigaction(SIGPROF, NULL, {SIG_DFL, [], 0}, 8) = 0
10:59:52.531960 rt_sigaction(SIGWINCH, NULL, {SIG_DFL, [], 0}, 8) = 0
10:59:52.533648 rt_sigaction(SIGIO, NULL, {SIG_DFL, [], 0}, 8) = 0
10:59:52.540444 rt_sigaction(SIGPWR, NULL, {SIG_DFL, [], 0}, 8) = 0
10:59:52.542135 rt_sigaction(SIGSYS, NULL, {SIG_DFL, [], 0}, 8) = 0
10:59:52.543826 rt_sigaction(SIGRT_2, NULL, {SIG_DFL, [], 0}, 8) = 0
10:59:52.551911 rt_sigaction(SIGRT_3, NULL, {SIG_DFL, [], 0}, 8) = 0
10:59:52.553620 rt_sigaction(SIGRT_4, NULL, {SIG_DFL, [], 0}, 8) = 0
10:59:52.555610 rt_sigaction(SIGRT_5, NULL, {SIG_DFL, [], 0}, 8) = 0
10:59:52.557325 rt_sigaction(SIGRT_6, NULL, {SIG_DFL, [], 0}, 8) = 0
10:59:52.559040 rt_sigaction(SIGRT_7, NULL, {SIG_DFL, [], 0}, 8) = 0
10:59:52.566080 rt_sigaction(SIGRT_8, NULL, {SIG_DFL, [], 0}, 8) = 0
10:59:52.567792 rt_sigaction(SIGRT_9, NULL, {SIG_DFL, [], 0}, 8) = 0
10:59:52.569501 rt_sigaction(SIGRT_10, NULL, {SIG_DFL, [], 0}, 8) = 0
10:59:52.576443 rt_sigaction(SIGRT_11, NULL, {SIG_DFL, [], 0}, 8) = 0
10:59:52.578014 rt_sigaction(SIGRT_12, NULL, {SIG_DFL, [], 0}, 8) = 0
10:59:52.579723 rt_sigaction(SIGRT_13, NULL, {SIG_DFL, [], 0}, 8) = 0
10:59:52.586560 rt_sigaction(SIGRT_14, NULL, {SIG_DFL, [], 0}, 8) = 0
10:59:52.588268 rt_sigaction(SIGRT_15, NULL, {SIG_DFL, [], 0}, 8) = 0
10:59:52.589983 rt_sigaction(SIGRT_16, NULL, {SIG_DFL, [], 0}, 8) = 0
10:59:52.597219 rt_sigaction(SIGRT_17, NULL, {SIG_DFL, [], 0}, 8) = 0
10:59:52.598933 rt_sigaction(SIGRT_18, NULL, {SIG_DFL, [], 0}, 8) = 0
10:59:52.605961 rt_sigaction(SIGRT_19, NULL, {SIG_DFL, [], 0}, 8) = 0
10:59:52.607670 rt_sigaction(SIGRT_20, NULL, {SIG_DFL, [], 0}, 8) = 0
10:59:52.609378 rt_sigaction(SIGRT_21, NULL, {SIG_DFL, [], 0}, 8) = 0
10:59:52.613447 rt_sigaction(SIGRT_22, NULL, {SIG_DFL, [], 0}, 8) = 0
10:59:52.620518 rt_sigaction(SIGRT_23, NULL, {SIG_DFL, [], 0}, 8) = 0
10:59:52.622231 rt_sigaction(SIGRT_24, NULL, {SIG_DFL, [], 0}, 8) = 0
10:59:52.623938 rt_sigaction(SIGRT_25, NULL, {SIG_DFL, [], 0}, 8) = 0
10:59:52.631166 rt_sigaction(SIGRT_26, NULL, {SIG_DFL, [], 0}, 8) = 0
10:59:52.632749 rt_sigaction(SIGRT_27, NULL, {SIG_DFL, [], 0}, 8) = 0
10:59:52.634359 rt_sigaction(SIGRT_28, NULL, {SIG_DFL, [], 0}, 8) = 0
10:59:52.641457 rt_sigaction(SIGRT_29, NULL, {SIG_DFL, [], 0}, 8) = 0
10:59:52.643174 rt_sigaction(SIGRT_30, NULL, {SIG_DFL, [], 0}, 8) = 0
10:59:52.644883 rt_sigaction(SIGRT_31, NULL, {SIG_DFL, [], 0}, 8) = 0
10:59:52.652979 rt_sigaction(SIGRT_32, NULL, {SIG_DFL, [], 0}, 8) = 0
10:59:52.654697 rt_sigaction(SIGINT, {0x40360fe8, [], 0x4000000 /* SA_??? */}, {SIG_DFL, [], 0}, 8) = 0
10:59:52.667000 stat64("/usr/lib/python27.zip", 0xbeb25198) = -1 ENOENT (No such file or directory)
10:59:52.668589 stat64("/usr/lib", {st_mode=S_IFDIR|0755, st_size=36464, ...}) = 0
10:59:52.677192 stat64("/usr/lib/python27.zip", 0xbeb26150) = -1 ENOENT (No such file or directory)
10:59:52.679055 stat64("/usr/lib/python2.7/", {st_mode=S_IFDIR|0755, st_size=16328, ...}) = 0
10:59:52.687407 stat64("/usr/lib/python2.7/", {st_mode=S_IFDIR|0755, st_size=16328, ...}) = 0
10:59:52.695694 stat64("/usr/lib/python2.7/site", 0xbeb26298) = -1 ENOENT (No such file or directory)
10:59:52.697409 open("/usr/lib/python2.7/site.so", O_RDONLY|O_LARGEFILE) = -1 ENOENT (No such file or directory)
10:59:52.699088 open("/usr/lib/python2.7/sitemodule.so", O_RDONLY|O_LARGEFILE) = -1 ENOENT (No such file or directory)
10:59:52.701355 open("/usr/lib/python2.7/site.py", O_RDONLY|O_LARGEFILE) = -1 ENOENT (No such file or directory)
10:59:52.702891 open("/usr/lib/python2.7/site.pyc", O_RDONLY|O_LARGEFILE) = 3
10:59:52.704535 fstat64(3, {st_mode=S_IFREG|0644, st_size=19815, ...}) = 0
10:59:52.712434 mmap2(NULL, 4096, PROT_READ|PROT_WRITE, MAP_PRIVATE|MAP_ANONYMOUS, -1, 0) = 0x4016f000
10:59:52.713623 read(3, "\3\363\r\n\372\212\351Sc\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\3\0\0\0@\0\0\0sy\1\0\0d\0"..., 4096) = 4096
10:59:52.715643 fstat64(3, {st_mode=S_IFREG|0644, st_size=19815, ...}) = 0
10:59:52.718443 read(3, "dir\n    (especially for Guido :-"..., 12288) = 12288
10:59:52.725875 read(3, "\0\0\0C\0\0\0s&\0\0\0d\1\0}\0\0|\0\0d\1\0k\3\0r\"\0t\0"..., 4096) = 3431
10:59:52.727555 read(3, "", 4096)       = 0
10:59:52.743683 stat64("/usr/lib/python2.7/os", 0xbeb23fa0) = -1 ENOENT (No such file or directory)
10:59:52.751477 open("/usr/lib/python2.7/os.so", O_RDONLY|O_LARGEFILE) = -1 ENOENT (No such file or directory)
10:59:52.753110 open("/usr/lib/python2.7/osmodule.so", O_RDONLY|O_LARGEFILE) = -1 ENOENT (No such file or directory)
10:59:52.754796 open("/usr/lib/python2.7/os.py", O_RDONLY|O_LARGEFILE) = -1 ENOENT (No such file or directory)
10:59:52.761840 open("/usr/lib/python2.7/os.pyc", O_RDONLY|O_LARGEFILE) = 4
10:59:52.763399 fstat64(4, {st_mode=S_IFREG|0644, st_size=25451, ...}) = 0
10:59:52.771312 mmap2(NULL, 4096, PROT_READ|PROT_WRITE, MAP_PRIVATE|MAP_ANONYMOUS, -1, 0) = 0x4023c000
10:59:52.772455 read(4, "\3\363\r\n\372\212\351Sc\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\16\0\0\0@\0\0\0s\372\6\0\0d\0"..., 4096) = 4096
10:59:52.774039 fstat64(4, {st_mode=S_IFREG|0644, st_size=25451, ...}) = 0
10:59:52.779857 brk(0x58000)            = 0x58000
10:59:52.786546 read(4, "e.\n\n    N(\t\0\0\0R\t\0\0\0t\5\0\0\0splitt\6\0"..., 20480) = 20480
10:59:52.788644 read(4, "\0t\6\0\0\0extendR\31\0\0\0t\6\0\0\0ntpathR\32\0\0"..., 4096) = 875
10:59:52.795730 read(4, "", 4096)       = 0
10:59:52.804434 mmap2(NULL, 266240, PROT_READ|PROT_WRITE, MAP_PRIVATE|MAP_ANONYMOUS, -1, 0) = 0x404fb000
10:59:52.808060 brk(0x52000)            = 0x52000
10:59:52.846269 stat64("/usr/lib/python2.7/posixpath", 0xbeb21ca8) = -1 ENOENT (No such file or directory)
10:59:52.848009 open("/usr/lib/python2.7/posixpath.so", O_RDONLY|O_LARGEFILE) = -1 ENOENT (No such file or directory)
10:59:52.849810 open("/usr/lib/python2.7/posixpathmodule.so", O_RDONLY|O_LARGEFILE) = -1 ENOENT (No such file or directory)
10:59:52.857030 open("/usr/lib/python2.7/posixpath.py", O_RDONLY|O_LARGEFILE) = -1 ENOENT (No such file or directory)
10:59:52.858641 open("/usr/lib/python2.7/posixpath.pyc", O_RDONLY|O_LARGEFILE) = 5
10:59:52.860754 fstat64(5, {st_mode=S_IFREG|0644, st_size=11148, ...}) = 0
10:59:52.863379 mmap2(NULL, 4096, PROT_READ|PROT_WRITE, MAP_PRIVATE|MAP_ANONYMOUS, -1, 0) = 0x4062f000
10:59:52.864630 read(5, "\3\363\r\n\372\212\351Sc\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\0&\0\0\0@\0\0\0s\345\1\0\0d\0"..., 4096) = 4096
10:59:52.911769 fstat64(5, {st_mode=S_IFREG|0644, st_size=11148, ...}) = 0
10:59:52.914486 read(5, "(\0\0\0\0(\0\0\0\0s\37\0\0\0/usr/lib/python2."..., 4096) = 4096
10:59:52.925593 read(5, "\4\0D]k\0}\6\0|\6\0d\r\0k\6\0r\242\0q\212\0n\0\0|\6\0d\t"..., 4096) = 2956
10:59:52.927171 read(5, "", 4096)       = 0
10:59:52.943151 stat64("/usr/lib/python2.7/stat", 0xbeb1f9b0) = -1 ENOENT (No such file or directory)
10:59:52.944780 open("/usr/lib/python2.7/stat.so", O_RDONLY|O_LARGEFILE) = -1 ENOENT (No such file or directory)
10:59:52.951998 open("/usr/lib/python2.7/statmodule.so", O_RDONLY|O_LARGEFILE) = -1 ENOENT (No such file or directory)
10:59:52.953825 open("/usr/lib/python2.7/stat.py", O_RDONLY|O_LARGEFILE) = -1 ENOENT (No such file or directory)
10:59:52.965536 open("/usr/lib/python2.7/stat.pyc", O_RDONLY|O_LARGEFILE) = 6
10:59:52.967174 fstat64(6, {st_mode=S_IFREG|0644, st_size=2731, ...}) = 0
10:59:52.969583 mmap2(NULL, 4096, PROT_READ|PROT_WRITE, MAP_PRIVATE|MAP_ANONYMOUS, -1, 0) = 0x406d6000
10:59:52.990963 read(6, "\3\363\r\n\372\212\351Sc\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\1\0\0\0@\0\0\0s{\1\0\0d\0"..., 4096) = 2731
10:59:52.992772 fstat64(6, {st_mode=S_IFREG|0644, st_size=2731, ...}) = 0
10:59:53.000539 read(6, "", 4096)       = 0
10:59:53.003955 close(6)                = 0
10:59:53.020230 munmap(0x406d6000, 4096) = 0
10:59:53.021758 stat64("/usr/lib/python2.7/genericpath", 0xbeb1f9b0) = -1 ENOENT (No such file or directory)
10:59:53.023450 open("/usr/lib/python2.7/genericpath.so", O_RDONLY|O_LARGEFILE) = -1 ENOENT (No such file or directory)
10:59:53.040364 open("/usr/lib/python2.7/genericpathmodule.so", O_RDONLY|O_LARGEFILE) = -1 ENOENT (No such file or directory)
10:59:53.042166 open("/usr/lib/python2.7/genericpath.py", O_RDONLY|O_LARGEFILE) = -1 ENOENT (No such file or directory)
10:59:53.043925 open("/usr/lib/python2.7/genericpath.pyc", O_RDONLY|O_LARGEFILE) = 6
10:59:53.060892 fstat64(6, {st_mode=S_IFREG|0644, st_size=3243, ...}) = 0
10:59:53.063442 mmap2(NULL, 4096, PROT_READ|PROT_WRITE, MAP_PRIVATE|MAP_ANONYMOUS, -1, 0) = 0x400c6000
10:59:53.064644 read(6, "\3\363\r\n\372\212\351Sc\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\10\0\0\0@\0\0\0s\221\0\0\0d\0"..., 4096) = 3243
10:59:53.078541 fstat64(6, {st_mode=S_IFREG|0644, st_size=3243, ...}) = 0
10:59:53.086444 read(6, "", 4096)       = 0
10:59:53.089783 close(6)                = 0
10:59:53.106070 munmap(0x400c6000, 4096) = 0
10:59:53.107596 stat64("/usr/lib/python2.7/warnings", 0xbeb1f9b0) = -1 ENOENT (No such file or directory)
10:59:53.109100 open("/usr/lib/python2.7/warnings.so", O_RDONLY|O_LARGEFILE) = -1 ENOENT (No such file or directory)
10:59:53.125898 open("/usr/lib/python2.7/warningsmodule.so", O_RDONLY|O_LARGEFILE) = -1 ENOENT (No such file or directory)
10:59:53.127693 open("/usr/lib/python2.7/warnings.py", O_RDONLY|O_LARGEFILE) = -1 ENOENT (No such file or directory)
10:59:53.129383 open("/usr/lib/python2.7/warnings.pyc", O_RDONLY|O_LARGEFILE) = 6
10:59:53.142326 fstat64(6, {st_mode=S_IFREG|0644, st_size=13104, ...}) = 0
10:59:53.144869 mmap2(NULL, 4096, PROT_READ|PROT_WRITE, MAP_PRIVATE|MAP_ANONYMOUS, -1, 0) = 0x4004d000
10:59:53.191557 read(6, "\3\363\r\n\372\212\351Sc\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\7\0\0\0@\0\0\0sS\2\0\0d\0"..., 4096) = 4096
10:59:53.193198 fstat64(6, {st_mode=S_IFREG|0644, st_size=13104, ...}) = 0
10:59:53.201447 read(6, "efaults\6\0\0\0modules\4\0\0\0once(\7\0\0\0R"..., 8192) = 8192
10:59:53.203338 read(6, "pyt\10\0\0\0__exit__c\1\0\0s\10\0\0\0\0\1\t\1\23\1\17\1"..., 4096) = 816
10:59:53.204938 read(6, "", 4096)       = 0
10:59:53.211552 brk(0x7c000)            = 0x7c000
10:59:53.227447 stat64("/usr/lib/python2.7/linecache", 0xbeb1d6b8) = -1 ENOENT (No such file or directory)
10:59:53.229184 open("/usr/lib/python2.7/linecache.so", O_RDONLY|O_LARGEFILE) = -1 ENOENT (No such file or directory)
10:59:53.236098 open("/usr/lib/python2.7/linecachemodule.so", O_RDONLY|O_LARGEFILE) = -1 ENOENT (No such file or directory)
10:59:53.237963 open("/usr/lib/python2.7/linecache.py", O_RDONLY|O_LARGEFILE) = -1 ENOENT (No such file or directory)
10:59:53.239719 open("/usr/lib/python2.7/linecache.pyc", O_RDONLY|O_LARGEFILE) = 7
10:59:53.246944 fstat64(7, {st_mode=S_IFREG|0644, st_size=3199, ...}) = 0
10:59:53.249361 mmap2(NULL, 4096, PROT_READ|PROT_WRITE, MAP_PRIVATE|MAP_ANONYMOUS, -1, 0) = 0x40170000
10:59:53.255782 read(7, "\3\363\r\n\372\212\351Sc\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\3\0\0\0@\0\0\0sp\0\0\0d\0"..., 4096) = 3199
10:59:53.257518 fstat64(7, {st_mode=S_IFREG|0644, st_size=3199, ...}) = 0
10:59:53.265459 read(7, "", 4096)       = 0
10:59:53.268494 close(7)                = 0
10:59:53.269607 munmap(0x40170000, 4096) = 0
10:59:53.271752 stat64("/usr/lib/python2.7/types", 0xbeb1d6b8) = -1 ENOENT (No such file or directory)
10:59:53.273517 open("/usr/lib/python2.7/types.so", O_RDONLY|O_LARGEFILE) = -1 ENOENT (No such file or directory)
10:59:53.275532 open("/usr/lib/python2.7/typesmodule.so", O_RDONLY|O_LARGEFILE) = -1 ENOENT (No such file or directory)
10:59:53.281264 open("/usr/lib/python2.7/types.py", O_RDONLY|O_LARGEFILE) = -1 ENOENT (No such file or directory)
10:59:53.282960 open("/usr/lib/python2.7/types.pyc", O_RDONLY|O_LARGEFILE) = 7
10:59:53.284634 fstat64(7, {st_mode=S_IFREG|0644, st_size=2494, ...}) = 0
10:59:53.292394 mmap2(NULL, 4096, PROT_READ|PROT_WRITE, MAP_PRIVATE|MAP_ANONYMOUS, -1, 0) = 0x400fc000
10:59:53.293643 read(7, "\3\363\r\n\372\212\351Sc\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\5\0\0\0@\0\0\0s/\2\0\0d\0"..., 4096) = 2494
10:59:53.300966 fstat64(7, {st_mode=S_IFREG|0644, st_size=2494, ...}) = 0
10:59:53.303594 read(7, "", 4096)       = 0
10:59:53.309327 close(7)                = 0
10:59:53.314029 munmap(0x400fc000, 4096) = 0
10:59:53.330734 close(6)                = 0
10:59:53.331861 munmap(0x4004d000, 4096) = 0
10:59:53.334110 close(5)                = 0
10:59:53.335369 munmap(0x4062f000, 4096) = 0
10:59:53.348052 stat64("/usr/lib/python2.7/UserDict", 0xbeb21ca8) = -1 ENOENT (No such file or directory)
10:59:53.349729 open("/usr/lib/python2.7/UserDict.so", O_RDONLY|O_LARGEFILE) = -1 ENOENT (No such file or directory)
10:59:53.352812 open("/usr/lib/python2.7/UserDictmodule.so", O_RDONLY|O_LARGEFILE) = -1 ENOENT (No such file or directory)
10:59:53.354604 open("/usr/lib/python2.7/UserDict.py", O_RDONLY|O_LARGEFILE) = -1 ENOENT (No such file or directory)
10:59:53.361638 open("/usr/lib/python2.7/UserDict.pyc", O_RDONLY|O_LARGEFILE) = 5
10:59:53.363200 fstat64(5, {st_mode=S_IFREG|0644, st_size=8730, ...}) = 0
10:59:53.371123 mmap2(NULL, 4096, PROT_READ|PROT_WRITE, MAP_PRIVATE|MAP_ANONYMOUS, -1, 0) = 0x400c9000
10:59:53.372322 read(5, "\3\363\r\n\371\212\351Sc\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\3\0\0\0@\0\0\0sb\0\0\0d\0"..., 4096) = 4096
10:59:53.374077 fstat64(5, {st_mode=S_IFREG|0644, st_size=8730, ...}) = 0
10:59:53.382040 read(5, "\0\1c\2\0\0\0\2\0\0\0\2\0\0\0C\0\0\0s\r\0\0\0|\1\0|\0\0j\0"..., 4096) = 4096
10:59:53.383673 read(5, "/UserDict.pyR\r\0\0\0\255\0\0\0s\n\0\0\0\0\1\f\1\4\1"..., 4096) = 538
10:59:53.385495 read(5, "", 4096)       = 0
10:59:53.410975 stat64("/usr/lib/python2.7/_abcoll", 0xbeb1f9b0) = -1 ENOENT (No such file or directory)
10:59:53.412655 open("/usr/lib/python2.7/_abcoll.so", O_RDONLY|O_LARGEFILE) = -1 ENOENT (No such file or directory)
10:59:53.414447 open("/usr/lib/python2.7/_abcollmodule.so", O_RDONLY|O_LARGEFILE) = -1 ENOENT (No such file or directory)
10:59:53.416600 open("/usr/lib/python2.7/_abcoll.py", O_RDONLY|O_LARGEFILE) = -1 ENOENT (No such file or directory)
10:59:53.418046 open("/usr/lib/python2.7/_abcoll.pyc", O_RDONLY|O_LARGEFILE) = 6
10:59:53.419652 fstat64(6, {st_mode=S_IFREG|0644, st_size=21727, ...}) = 0
10:59:53.427736 mmap2(NULL, 4096, PROT_READ|PROT_WRITE, MAP_PRIVATE|MAP_ANONYMOUS, -1, 0) = 0x40191000
10:59:53.428988 read(6, "\3\363\r\n\371\212\351Sc\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\20\0\0\0@\0\0\0sI\2\0\0d\0"..., 4096) = 4096
10:59:53.431046 fstat64(6, {st_mode=S_IFREG|0644, st_size=21727, ...}) = 0
10:59:53.433517 read(6, "C\0\0\0s&\0\0\0|\0\0t\0\0k\10\0r\"\0t\1\0|\1\0d\1\0\203\2"..., 16384) = 16384
10:59:53.435577 read(6, "\2\0\30<q\35\0Wd\0\0S(\3\0\0\0Ni\2\0\0\0i\1\0\0\0(\2\0\0"..., 4096) = 1247
10:59:53.441604 read(6, "", 4096)       = 0
10:59:53.461808 stat64("/usr/lib/python2.7/abc", 0xbeb1d6b8) = -1 ENOENT (No such file or directory)
10:59:53.463433 open("/usr/lib/python2.7/abc.so", O_RDONLY|O_LARGEFILE) = -1 ENOENT (No such file or directory)
10:59:53.465507 open("/usr/lib/python2.7/abcmodule.so", O_RDONLY|O_LARGEFILE) = -1 ENOENT (No such file or directory)
10:59:53.467243 open("/usr/lib/python2.7/abc.py", O_RDONLY|O_LARGEFILE) = -1 ENOENT (No such file or directory)
10:59:53.468876 open("/usr/lib/python2.7/abc.pyc", O_RDONLY|O_LARGEFILE) = 7
10:59:53.475783 fstat64(7, {st_mode=S_IFREG|0644, st_size=6121, ...}) = 0
10:59:53.478324 mmap2(NULL, 4096, PROT_READ|PROT_WRITE, MAP_PRIVATE|MAP_ANONYMOUS, -1, 0) = 0x4053c000
10:59:53.479594 read(7, "\3\363\r\n\371\212\351Sc\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\3\0\0\0@\0\0\0s}\0\0\0d\0"..., 4096) = 4096
10:59:53.481626 fstat64(7, {st_mode=S_IFREG|0644, st_size=6121, ...}) = 0
10:59:53.484343 read(7, "egisteri\0\0\0s\20\0\0\0\0\2\30\1\17\1\17\1\4\3\17\2\17\1\20\1"..., 4096) = 2025
10:59:53.491322 read(7, "", 4096)       = 0
10:59:53.495939 stat64("/usr/lib/python2.7/_weakrefset", 0xbeb1b3c0) = -1 ENOENT (No such file or directory)
10:59:53.497678 open("/usr/lib/python2.7/_weakrefset.so", O_RDONLY|O_LARGEFILE) = -1 ENOENT (No such file or directory)
10:59:53.499537 open("/usr/lib/python2.7/_weakrefsetmodule.so", O_RDONLY|O_LARGEFILE) = -1 ENOENT (No such file or directory)
10:59:53.506733 open("/usr/lib/python2.7/_weakrefset.py", O_RDONLY|O_LARGEFILE) = -1 ENOENT (No such file or directory)
10:59:53.508479 open("/usr/lib/python2.7/_weakrefset.pyc", O_RDONLY|O_LARGEFILE) = 8
10:59:53.512431 fstat64(8, {st_mode=S_IFREG|0644, st_size=10190, ...}) = 0
10:59:53.515482 mmap2(NULL, 4096, PROT_READ|PROT_WRITE, MAP_PRIVATE|MAP_ANONYMOUS, -1, 0) = 0x405bf000
10:59:53.516550 read(8, "\3\363\r\n\371\212\351Sc\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\3\0\0\0@\0\0\0sI\0\0\0d\0"..., 4096) = 4096
10:59:53.518306 fstat64(8, {st_mode=S_IFREG|0644, st_size=10190, ...}) = 0
10:59:53.526400 read(8, "\0\0\0C\0\0\0s0\0\0\0|\0\0j\0\0r\26\0|\0\0j\1\0\203\0\0\1n"..., 4096) = 4096
10:59:53.528026 read(8, "on2.7/_weakrefset.pys\t\0\0\0<genexp"..., 4096) = 1998
10:59:53.529531 read(8, "", 4096)       = 0
10:59:53.543663 close(8)                = 0
10:59:53.544738 munmap(0x405bf000, 4096) = 0
10:59:53.560391 close(7)                = 0
10:59:53.561459 munmap(0x4053c000, 4096) = 0
10:59:53.751994 close(6)                = 0
10:59:53.753125 munmap(0x40191000, 4096) = 0
10:59:53.762751 close(5)                = 0
10:59:53.763925 munmap(0x400c9000, 4096) = 0
10:59:53.772564 stat64("/usr/lib/python2.7/copy_reg", 0xbeb21ca8) = -1 ENOENT (No such file or directory)
10:59:53.774253 open("/usr/lib/python2.7/copy_reg.so", O_RDONLY|O_LARGEFILE) = -1 ENOENT (No such file or directory)
10:59:53.781073 open("/usr/lib/python2.7/copy_regmodule.so", O_RDONLY|O_LARGEFILE) = -1 ENOENT (No such file or directory)
10:59:53.782693 open("/usr/lib/python2.7/copy_reg.py", O_RDONLY|O_LARGEFILE) = -1 ENOENT (No such file or directory)
10:59:53.784384 open("/usr/lib/python2.7/copy_reg.pyc", O_RDONLY|O_LARGEFILE) = 5
10:59:53.791370 fstat64(5, {st_mode=S_IFREG|0644, st_size=5091, ...}) = 0
10:59:53.793925 mmap2(NULL, 4096, PROT_READ|PROT_WRITE, MAP_PRIVATE|MAP_ANONYMOUS, -1, 0) = 0x400fc000
10:59:53.800635 read(5, "\3\363\r\n\372\212\351Sc\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\5\0\0\0@\0\0\0s\326\0\0\0d\0"..., 4096) = 4096
10:59:53.802398 fstat64(5, {st_mode=S_IFREG|0644, st_size=5091, ...}) = 0
10:59:53.810409 read(5, "\0\0\0t\3\0\0\0intt\n\0\0\0ValueErrort\23\0\0\0_"..., 4096) = 995
10:59:53.812006 read(5, "", 4096)       = 0
10:59:53.825483 close(5)                = 0
10:59:53.826712 munmap(0x400fc000, 4096) = 0
10:59:53.828736 close(4)                = 0
10:59:53.829797 munmap(0x4023c000, 4096) = 0
10:59:53.836804 stat64("/usr/lib/python2.7/traceback", 0xbeb23fa0) = -1 ENOENT (No such file or directory)
10:59:53.838277 open("/usr/lib/python2.7/traceback.so", O_RDONLY|O_LARGEFILE) = -1 ENOENT (No such file or directory)
10:59:53.839932 open("/usr/lib/python2.7/tracebackmodule.so", O_RDONLY|O_LARGEFILE) = -1 ENOENT (No such file or directory)
10:59:53.847299 open("/usr/lib/python2.7/traceback.py", O_RDONLY|O_LARGEFILE) = -1 ENOENT (No such file or directory)
10:59:53.848978 open("/usr/lib/python2.7/traceback.pyc", O_RDONLY|O_LARGEFILE) = 4
10:59:53.856003 fstat64(4, {st_mode=S_IFREG|0644, st_size=11583, ...}) = 0
10:59:53.858558 mmap2(NULL, 4096, PROT_READ|PROT_WRITE, MAP_PRIVATE|MAP_ANONYMOUS, -1, 0) = 0x40018000
10:59:53.859750 read(4, "\3\363\r\n\372\212\351Sc\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\16\0\0\0@\0\0\0sB\1\0\0d\0"..., 4096) = 4096
10:59:53.866795 fstat64(4, {st_mode=S_IFREG|0644, st_size=11583, ...}) = 0
10:59:53.869550 read(4, "R!\0\0\0i\0\0\0\0i\1\0\0\0N(\20\0\0\0R\24\0\0\0R\"\0\0\0R"..., 4096) = 4096
10:59:53.885604 read(4, "Xd\1\0S(\2\0\0\0s\276\0\0\0Shorthand for 'pr"..., 4096) = 3391
10:59:53.887357 read(4, "", 4096)       = 0
10:59:53.927434 close(4)                = 0
10:59:53.931115 munmap(0x40018000, 4096) = 0
10:59:54.007254 geteuid32()             = 0
10:59:54.008458 getuid32()              = 0
10:59:54.009757 getegid32()             = 0
10:59:54.016058 getgid32()              = 0
10:59:54.017597 stat64("/usr/lib/python2.7", {st_mode=S_IFDIR|0755, st_size=16328, ...}) = 0
10:59:54.051064 stat64("/usr/lib/python2.7", {st_mode=S_IFDIR|0755, st_size=16328, ...}) = 0
10:59:54.054070 stat64("/usr/lib/python2.7/sysconfig", 0xbeb23c00) = -1 ENOENT (No such file or directory)
10:59:54.066047 open("/usr/lib/python2.7/sysconfig.so", O_RDONLY|O_LARGEFILE) = -1 ENOENT (No such file or directory)
10:59:54.067804 open("/usr/lib/python2.7/sysconfigmodule.so", O_RDONLY|O_LARGEFILE) = -1 ENOENT (No such file or directory)
10:59:54.069608 open("/usr/lib/python2.7/sysconfig.py", O_RDONLY|O_LARGEFILE) = -1 ENOENT (No such file or directory)
10:59:54.083590 open("/usr/lib/python2.7/sysconfig.pyc", O_RDONLY|O_LARGEFILE) = 4
10:59:54.085542 fstat64(4, {st_mode=S_IFREG|0644, st_size=17639, ...}) = 0
10:59:54.088166 mmap2(NULL, 4096, PROT_READ|PROT_WRITE, MAP_PRIVATE|MAP_ANONYMOUS, -1, 0) = 0x4003c000
10:59:54.089427 read(4, "\3\363\r\n\372\212\351Sc\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\10\0\0\0@\0\0\0s\252\4\0\0d\0"..., 4096) = 4096
10:59:54.101607 fstat64(4, {st_mode=S_IFREG|0644, st_size=17639, ...}) = 0
10:59:54.104225 read(4, "\20\2\35\1\17\1\25\1#\1c\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\2\0\0\0C\0\0\0s\32\0\0\0"..., 12288) = 12288
10:59:54.141395 read(4, "t\1\0\0\0it\1\0\0\0jt\4\0\0\0lookt\6\0\0\0osname"..., 4096) = 1255
10:59:54.143004 read(4, "", 4096)       = 0
10:59:54.163370 lstat64("/usr", {st_mode=S_IFDIR|0755, st_size=888, ...}) = 0
10:59:54.172462 lstat64("/usr/bin", {st_mode=S_IFDIR|0755, st_size=29640, ...}) = 0
10:59:54.176333 lstat64("/usr/bin/python", {st_mode=S_IFLNK|0777, st_size=7, ...}) = 0
10:59:54.179709 lstat64("/usr/bin/python", {st_mode=S_IFLNK|0777, st_size=7, ...}) = 0
10:59:54.188265 readlink("/usr/bin/python", "python2", 4096) = 7
10:59:54.192266 lstat64("/usr/bin/python2", {st_mode=S_IFLNK|0777, st_size=9, ...}) = 0
10:59:54.201256 readlink("/usr/bin/python2", "python2.7", 4096) = 9
10:59:54.203781 lstat64("/usr/bin/python2.7", {st_mode=S_IFREG|0755, st_size=3820, ...}) = 0
10:59:54.213086 lstat64("/usr", {st_mode=S_IFDIR|0755, st_size=888, ...}) = 0
10:59:54.221839 lstat64("/usr/bin", {st_mode=S_IFDIR|0755, st_size=29640, ...}) = 0
10:59:54.225890 lstat64("/usr/bin/python2.7", {st_mode=S_IFREG|0755, st_size=3820, ...}) = 0
10:59:54.236036 stat64("/usr/bin/Modules/Setup.dist", 0xbeb258e0) = -1 ENOENT (No such file or directory)
10:59:54.239046 stat64("/usr/bin/Modules/Setup.local", 0xbeb258e0) = -1 ENOENT (No such file or directory)
10:59:54.242133 close(4)                = 0
10:59:54.243247 munmap(0x4003c000, 4096) = 0
10:59:54.244746 stat64("/usr/lib/python2.7/re", 0xbeb239d0) = -1 ENOENT (No such file or directory)
10:59:54.251861 open("/usr/lib/python2.7/re.so", O_RDONLY|O_LARGEFILE) = -1 ENOENT (No such file or directory)
10:59:54.253536 open("/usr/lib/python2.7/remodule.so", O_RDONLY|O_LARGEFILE) = -1 ENOENT (No such file or directory)
10:59:54.260529 open("/usr/lib/python2.7/re.py", O_RDONLY|O_LARGEFILE) = -1 ENOENT (No such file or directory)
10:59:54.262207 open("/usr/lib/python2.7/re.pyc", O_RDONLY|O_LARGEFILE) = 4
10:59:54.263769 fstat64(4, {st_mode=S_IFREG|0644, st_size=13052, ...}) = 0
10:59:54.271628 mmap2(NULL, 4096, PROT_READ|PROT_WRITE, MAP_PRIVATE|MAP_ANONYMOUS, -1, 0) = 0x40096000
10:59:54.272633 read(4, "\3\363\r\n\372\212\351Sc\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\27\0\0\0@\0\0\0s'\2\0\0d\0"..., 4096) = 4096
10:59:54.274339 fstat64(4, {st_mode=S_IFREG|0644, st_size=13052, ...}) = 0
10:59:54.282299 read(4, "  Match a regular expression pat"..., 8192) = 8192
10:59:54.283984 read(4, "\1(\4\0\0\0t\10\0\0\0__name__t\n\0\0\0__module"..., 4096) = 764
10:59:54.291730 read(4, "", 4096)       = 0
10:59:54.301882 stat64("/usr/lib/python2.7/sre_compile", 0xbeb216d8) = -1 ENOENT (No such file or directory)
10:59:54.303699 open("/usr/lib/python2.7/sre_compile.so", O_RDONLY|O_LARGEFILE) = -1 ENOENT (No such file or directory)
10:59:54.305883 open("/usr/lib/python2.7/sre_compilemodule.so", O_RDONLY|O_LARGEFILE) = -1 ENOENT (No such file or directory)
10:59:54.307734 open("/usr/lib/python2.7/sre_compile.py", O_RDONLY|O_LARGEFILE) = -1 ENOENT (No such file or directory)
10:59:54.309477 open("/usr/lib/python2.7/sre_compile.pyc", O_RDONLY|O_LARGEFILE) = 5
10:59:54.316530 fstat64(5, {st_mode=S_IFREG|0644, st_size=11029, ...}) = 0
10:59:54.319087 mmap2(NULL, 4096, PROT_READ|PROT_WRITE, MAP_PRIVATE|MAP_ANONYMOUS, -1, 0) = 0x40179000
10:59:54.324158 read(5, "\3\363\r\n\372\212\351Sc\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\5\0\0\0@\0\0\0sn\1\0\0d\0"..., 4096) = 4096
10:59:54.330685 fstat64(5, {st_mode=S_IFREG|0644, st_size=11029, ...}) = 0
10:59:54.337740 read(5, "\1\f\1\21\1\f\1\16\1\f\0\n\1\20\1\r\2\26\1\f\1\f\1\n\1\24\1\16\1\27\1\f"..., 4096) = 4096
10:59:54.339442 read(5, "\4\0k\10\0rb\1|\t\0|\n\0|\v\0f\2\0\203\1\0\1q`\2|\n\0t\7"..., 4096) = 2837
10:59:54.341475 read(5, "", 4096)       = 0
10:59:54.353840 stat64("/usr/lib/python2.7/sre_parse", 0xbeb1f3e0) = -1 ENOENT (No such file or directory)
10:59:54.355866 open("/usr/lib/python2.7/sre_parse.so", O_RDONLY|O_LARGEFILE) = -1 ENOENT (No such file or directory)
10:59:54.357406 open("/usr/lib/python2.7/sre_parsemodule.so", O_RDONLY|O_LARGEFILE) = -1 ENOENT (No such file or directory)
10:59:54.359202 open("/usr/lib/python2.7/sre_parse.py", O_RDONLY|O_LARGEFILE) = -1 ENOENT (No such file or directory)
10:59:54.366269 open("/usr/lib/python2.7/sre_parse.pyc", O_RDONLY|O_LARGEFILE) = 6
10:59:54.368003 fstat64(6, {st_mode=S_IFREG|0644, st_size=19028, ...}) = 0
10:59:54.370899 mmap2(NULL, 4096, PROT_READ|PROT_WRITE, MAP_PRIVATE|MAP_ANONYMOUS, -1, 0) = 0x4023c000
10:59:54.372077 read(6, "\3\363\r\n\372\212\351Sc\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\4\0\0\0@\0\0\0s\312\2\0\0d\0"..., 4096) = 4096
10:59:54.373829 fstat64(6, {st_mode=S_IFREG|0644, st_size=19028, ...}) = 0
10:59:54.382005 read(6, "\3\0\0\0\3\0\0\0\3\0\0\0C\0\0\0s\27\0\0\0|\0\0j\0\0j\1\0|\1"..., 12288) = 12288
10:59:54.384028 read(6, "q\234\1\4t\r\0k\n\0r\227\1\1\1\1t\16\0d\16\0\202\2\0q\234\1Xn\1\0"..., 4096) = 2644
10:59:54.391651 read(6, "", 4096)       = 0
10:59:54.394320 mmap2(NULL, 266240, PROT_READ|PROT_WRITE, MAP_PRIVATE|MAP_ANONYMOUS, -1, 0) = 0x4053c000
10:59:54.401276 munmap(0x4053c000, 266240) = 0
10:59:54.402561 brk(0xcf000)            = 0xcf000
10:59:54.408524 stat64("/usr/lib/python2.7/sre_constants", 0xbeb1d0e8) = -1 ENOENT (No such file or directory)
10:59:54.415617 open("/usr/lib/python2.7/sre_constants.so", O_RDONLY|O_LARGEFILE) = -1 ENOENT (No such file or directory)
10:59:54.417471 open("/usr/lib/python2.7/sre_constantsmodule.so", O_RDONLY|O_LARGEFILE) = -1 ENOENT (No such file or directory)
10:59:54.419397 open("/usr/lib/python2.7/sre_constants.py", O_RDONLY|O_LARGEFILE) = -1 ENOENT (No such file or directory)
10:59:54.426419 open("/usr/lib/python2.7/sre_constants.pyc", O_RDONLY|O_LARGEFILE) = 7
10:59:54.428208 fstat64(7, {st_mode=S_IFREG|0644, st_size=6078, ...}) = 0
10:59:54.436079 mmap2(NULL, 4096, PROT_READ|PROT_WRITE, MAP_PRIVATE|MAP_ANONYMOUS, -1, 0) = 0x400fc000
10:59:54.437275 read(7, "\3\363\r\n\372\212\351Sc\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\0 \0\0\0@\0\0\0s\357\4\0\0d\0"..., 4096) = 4096
10:59:54.439033 fstat64(7, {st_mode=S_IFREG|0644, st_size=6078, ...}) = 0
10:59:54.447172 read(7, "`\0\0\0t\7\0\0\0__doc__t\5\0\0\0MAGICt\t\0\0\0M"..., 4096) = 1982
10:59:54.448813 read(7, "", 4096)       = 0
10:59:54.461799 close(7)                = 0
10:59:54.462982 munmap(0x400fc000, 4096) = 0
10:59:54.474795 close(6)                = 0
10:59:54.481228 munmap(0x4023c000, 4096) = 0
10:59:54.484872 close(5)                = 0
10:59:54.492112 munmap(0x40179000, 4096) = 0
10:59:54.498876 close(4)                = 0
10:59:54.505385 munmap(0x40096000, 4096) = 0
10:59:54.696826 open("/usr/lib/python2.7/config/Makefile", O_RDONLY|O_LARGEFILE) = 4
10:59:54.698557 fstat64(4, {st_mode=S_IFREG|0644, st_size=47787, ...}) = 0
10:59:54.701798 fstat64(4, {st_mode=S_IFREG|0644, st_size=47787, ...}) = 0
10:59:54.704426 mmap2(NULL, 4096, PROT_READ|PROT_WRITE, MAP_PRIVATE|MAP_ANONYMOUS, -1, 0) = 0x400cf000
10:59:54.710838 read(4, "# Generated automatically from M"..., 8192) = 8192
10:59:54.713778 read(4, "################################"..., 4096) = 4096
10:59:54.720458 read(4, "ODOBJS)\n\n#######################"..., 4096) = 4096
10:59:54.723309 read(4, "MEWORKDIR)/Versions/$(VERSION)/R"..., 4096) = 4096
10:59:54.724992 read(4, "(srcdir)/Objects/stringlib/parti"..., 4096) = 4096
10:59:54.733154 read(4, ":\tall platform\n\t\tif [ `arch` != "..., 4096) = 4096
10:59:54.734722 read(4, "true; \\\n\t\tfi; \\\n\tdone\n\t$(INSTALL"..., 4096) = 4096
10:59:54.742615 read(4, " $(RUNSHARED) \\\n\t\t$(PYTHON_FOR_B"..., 4096) = 4096
10:59:54.744379 read(4, "modules\n# This goes into $(exec_"..., 4096) = 4096
10:59:54.747375 read(4, "reindent on the library\nreindent"..., 4096) = 4096
10:59:54.748919 read(4, "ules appended by makedepend\n\nMod"..., 4096) = 2731
10:59:54.755687 read(4, "", 4096)       = 0
10:59:54.757805 close(4)                = 0
10:59:54.758920 munmap(0x400cf000, 4096) = 0
10:59:55.431812 open("/usr/lib/python2.7/config/pyconfig.h", O_RDONLY|O_LARGEFILE) = 4
10:59:55.433593 fstat64(4, {st_mode=S_IFREG|0644, st_size=35994, ...}) = 0
10:59:55.491235 fstat64(4, {st_mode=S_IFREG|0644, st_size=35994, ...}) = 0
10:59:55.493705 mmap2(NULL, 4096, PROT_READ|PROT_WRITE, MAP_PRIVATE|MAP_ANONYMOUS, -1, 0) = 0x40004000
10:59:55.494955 read(4, "/* pyconfig.h.  Generated from p"..., 4096) = 4096
10:59:55.528775 read(4, "ES_IS_TERM_RESIZED 1\n\n/* Define "..., 4096) = 4096
10:59:55.567406 read(4, "AME_R_3_ARG */\n\n/* Define this i"..., 4096) = 4096
10:59:55.603537 read(4, "e. */\n#define HAVE_LINUX_NETLINK"..., 4096) = 4096
10:59:55.644366 read(4, " 1\n\n/* Define if you have the 's"..., 4096) = 4096
10:59:55.681463 read(4, "/\n\n/* Define to 1 if you have th"..., 4096) = 4096
10:59:55.718442 read(4, "* Define to 1 if you have the `u"..., 4096) = 4096
10:59:55.756324 read(4, "zeof. */\n#define SIZEOF_TIME_T 4"..., 4096) = 4096
10:59:55.786556 read(4, "*/\n/* #undef _OSF_SOURCE */\n\n/* "..., 4096) = 3226
10:59:55.808510 read(4, "", 4096)       = 0
10:59:55.811180 close(4)                = 0
10:59:55.812238 munmap(0x40004000, 4096) = 0
10:59:55.831166 stat64("/root/.local/lib/python2.7/site-packages", 0xbeb27e90) = -1 ENOENT (No such file or directory)
10:59:55.834696 stat64("/usr/lib/python2.7/site-packages", {st_mode=S_IFDIR|0755, st_size=1704, ...}) = 0
10:59:55.839712 openat(AT_FDCWD, "/usr/lib/python2.7/site-packages", O_RDONLY|O_NONBLOCK|O_LARGEFILE|O_DIRECTORY|O_CLOEXEC) = 4
10:59:55.841833 getdents64(4, /* 22 entries */, 32768) = 824
10:59:55.855717 getdents64(4, /* 0 entries */, 32768) = 0
10:59:55.856825 close(4)                = 0
10:59:55.859343 open("/usr/lib/python2.7/site-packages/easy-install.pth", O_RDONLY|O_LARGEFILE) = 4
10:59:55.861581 fstat64(4, {st_mode=S_IFREG|0644, st_size=208, ...}) = 0
10:59:55.864341 fstat64(4, {st_mode=S_IFREG|0644, st_size=208, ...}) = 0
10:59:55.867189 mmap2(NULL, 4096, PROT_READ|PROT_WRITE, MAP_PRIVATE|MAP_ANONYMOUS, -1, 0) = 0x400fc000
10:59:55.868372 read(4, "import sys; sys.__plen = len(sys"..., 8192) = 208
10:59:55.869800 read(4, "", 4096)       = 0
10:59:55.878336 brk(0xf0000)            = 0xf0000
10:59:55.933875 stat64("/usr/lib/python2.7/site-packages/flup-1.0.2-py2.7.egg", {st_mode=S_IFDIR|0755, st_size=296, ...}) = 0
10:59:55.962937 read(4, "", 8192)       = 0
10:59:55.964264 close(4)                = 0
10:59:55.970733 munmap(0x400fc000, 4096) = 0
10:59:55.972520 open("/usr/lib/python2.7/site-packages/setuptools.pth", O_RDONLY|O_LARGEFILE) = 4
10:59:55.974351 fstat64(4, {st_mode=S_IFREG|0644, st_size=34, ...}) = 0
10:59:55.982277 fstat64(4, {st_mode=S_IFREG|0644, st_size=34, ...}) = 0
10:59:55.984772 mmap2(NULL, 4096, PROT_READ|PROT_WRITE, MAP_PRIVATE|MAP_ANONYMOUS, -1, 0) = 0x4009c000
10:59:55.991290 read(4, "./setuptools-0.6c11-py2.7.egg-in"..., 8192) = 34
10:59:55.992841 read(4, "", 4096)       = 0
10:59:55.994166 read(4, "", 8192)       = 0
10:59:55.996936 stat64("/usr/lib/python2.7/site-packages/setuptools-0.6c11-py2.7.egg-info", {st_mode=S_IFREG|0644, st_size=144, ...}) = 0
10:59:56.006242 close(4)                = 0
10:59:56.007356 munmap(0x4009c000, 4096) = 0
10:59:56.008859 stat64("/usr/lib/site-python", 0xbeb27e90) = -1 ENOENT (No such file or directory)
10:59:56.014242 stat64("/usr/lib/python2.7/site-packages/flup-1.0.2-py2.7.egg", {st_mode=S_IFDIR|0755, st_size=296, ...}) = 0
10:59:56.023127 stat64("/usr/lib/python2.7/site-packages/flup-1.0.2-py2.7.egg", {st_mode=S_IFDIR|0755, st_size=296, ...}) = 0
10:59:56.032598 stat64("/usr/lib/python2.7/site-packages/flup-1.0.2-py2.7.egg/sitecustomize", 0xbeb23dd0) = -1 ENOENT (No such file or directory)
10:59:56.034773 open("/usr/lib/python2.7/site-packages/flup-1.0.2-py2.7.egg/sitecustomize.so", O_RDONLY|O_LARGEFILE) = -1 ENOENT (No such file or directory)
10:59:56.042392 open("/usr/lib/python2.7/site-packages/flup-1.0.2-py2.7.egg/sitecustomizemodule.so", O_RDONLY|O_LARGEFILE) = -1 ENOENT (No such file or directory)
10:59:56.044753 open("/usr/lib/python2.7/site-packages/flup-1.0.2-py2.7.egg/sitecustomize.py", O_RDONLY|O_LARGEFILE) = -1 ENOENT (No such file or directory)
10:59:56.092827 open("/usr/lib/python2.7/site-packages/flup-1.0.2-py2.7.egg/sitecustomize.pyc", O_RDONLY|O_LARGEFILE) = -1 ENOENT (No such file or directory)
10:59:56.095545 stat64("/usr/lib/python2.7/sitecustomize", 0xbeb23dd0) = -1 ENOENT (No such file or directory)
10:59:56.097297 open("/usr/lib/python2.7/sitecustomize.so", O_RDONLY|O_LARGEFILE) = -1 ENOENT (No such file or directory)
10:59:56.099082 open("/usr/lib/python2.7/sitecustomizemodule.so", O_RDONLY|O_LARGEFILE) = -1 ENOENT (No such file or directory)
10:59:56.101457 open("/usr/lib/python2.7/sitecustomize.py", O_RDONLY|O_LARGEFILE) = -1 ENOENT (No such file or directory)
10:59:56.103195 open("/usr/lib/python2.7/sitecustomize.pyc", O_RDONLY|O_LARGEFILE) = -1 ENOENT (No such file or directory)
10:59:56.105395 stat64("/usr/lib/python2.7/plat-linux2", {st_mode=S_IFDIR|0755, st_size=504, ...}) = 0
10:59:56.108429 stat64("/usr/lib/python2.7/plat-linux2", {st_mode=S_IFDIR|0755, st_size=504, ...}) = 0
10:59:56.111932 stat64("/usr/lib/python2.7/plat-linux2/sitecustomize", 0xbeb23dd0) = -1 ENOENT (No such file or directory)
10:59:56.113828 open("/usr/lib/python2.7/plat-linux2/sitecustomize.so", O_RDONLY|O_LARGEFILE) = -1 ENOENT (No such file or directory)
10:59:56.116021 open("/usr/lib/python2.7/plat-linux2/sitecustomizemodule.so", O_RDONLY|O_LARGEFILE) = -1 ENOENT (No such file or directory)
10:59:56.118032 open("/usr/lib/python2.7/plat-linux2/sitecustomize.py", O_RDONLY|O_LARGEFILE) = -1 ENOENT (No such file or directory)
10:59:56.119945 open("/usr/lib/python2.7/plat-linux2/sitecustomize.pyc", O_RDONLY|O_LARGEFILE) = -1 ENOENT (No such file or directory)
10:59:56.122193 stat64("/usr/lib/python2.7/lib-tk", 0xbeb22cd0) = -1 ENOENT (No such file or directory)
10:59:56.123689 stat64("/usr/lib/python2.7", {st_mode=S_IFDIR|0755, st_size=16328, ...}) = 0
10:59:56.127082 stat64("/usr/lib/python2.7/lib-tk", 0xbeb23c88) = -1 ENOENT (No such file or directory)
10:59:56.128841 stat64("/usr/lib/python2.7/lib-old", 0xbeb22cd0) = -1 ENOENT (No such file or directory)
10:59:56.130753 stat64("/usr/lib/python2.7", {st_mode=S_IFDIR|0755, st_size=16328, ...}) = 0
10:59:56.133790 stat64("/usr/lib/python2.7/lib-old", 0xbeb23c88) = -1 ENOENT (No such file or directory)
10:59:56.135703 stat64("/usr/lib/python2.7/lib-dynload", {st_mode=S_IFDIR|0755, st_size=4176, ...}) = 0
10:59:56.138820 stat64("/usr/lib/python2.7/lib-dynload", {st_mode=S_IFDIR|0755, st_size=4176, ...}) = 0
10:59:56.143192 stat64("/usr/lib/python2.7/lib-dynload/sitecustomize", 0xbeb23dd0) = -1 ENOENT (No such file or directory)
10:59:56.145632 open("/usr/lib/python2.7/lib-dynload/sitecustomize.so", O_RDONLY|O_LARGEFILE) = -1 ENOENT (No such file or directory)
10:59:56.147603 open("/usr/lib/python2.7/lib-dynload/sitecustomizemodule.so", O_RDONLY|O_LARGEFILE) = -1 ENOENT (No such file or directory)
10:59:56.149583 open("/usr/lib/python2.7/lib-dynload/sitecustomize.py", O_RDONLY|O_LARGEFILE) = -1 ENOENT (No such file or directory)
10:59:56.151992 open("/usr/lib/python2.7/lib-dynload/sitecustomize.pyc", O_RDONLY|O_LARGEFILE) = -1 ENOENT (No such file or directory)
10:59:56.154013 stat64("/usr/lib/python2.7/site-packages", {st_mode=S_IFDIR|0755, st_size=1704, ...}) = 0
10:59:56.157610 stat64("/usr/lib/python2.7/site-packages", {st_mode=S_IFDIR|0755, st_size=1704, ...}) = 0
10:59:56.161187 stat64("/usr/lib/python2.7/site-packages/sitecustomize", 0xbeb23dd0) = -1 ENOENT (No such file or directory)
10:59:56.163085 open("/usr/lib/python2.7/site-packages/sitecustomize.so", O_RDONLY|O_LARGEFILE) = -1 ENOENT (No such file or directory)
10:59:56.164871 open("/usr/lib/python2.7/site-packages/sitecustomizemodule.so", O_RDONLY|O_LARGEFILE) = -1 ENOENT (No such file or directory)
10:59:56.167283 open("/usr/lib/python2.7/site-packages/sitecustomize.py", O_RDONLY|O_LARGEFILE) = -1 ENOENT (No such file or directory)
10:59:56.169241 open("/usr/lib/python2.7/site-packages/sitecustomize.pyc", O_RDONLY|O_LARGEFILE) = -1 ENOENT (No such file or directory)
10:59:56.171628 stat64("/usr/lib/python2.7/site-packages/setuptools-0.6c11-py2.7.egg-info", {st_mode=S_IFREG|0644, st_size=144, ...}) = 0
10:59:56.175546 open("/usr/lib/python2.7/site-packages/setuptools-0.6c11-py2.7.egg-info", O_RDONLY|O_LARGEFILE) = 4
10:59:56.177805 fstat64(4, {st_mode=S_IFREG|0644, st_size=144, ...}) = 0
10:59:56.180521 mmap2(NULL, 4096, PROT_READ|PROT_WRITE, MAP_PRIVATE|MAP_ANONYMOUS, -1, 0) = 0x400b9000
10:59:56.181774 fstat64(4, {st_mode=S_IFREG|0644, st_size=144, ...}) = 0
10:59:56.184463 _llseek(4, 0, [0], SEEK_SET) = 0
10:59:56.185993 read(4, "Metadata-Version: 1.0\nName: setu"..., 122) = 122
10:59:56.187760 read(4, " xxx\nDescription: xxx\n", 4096) = 22
10:59:56.189224 close(4)                = 0
10:59:56.190595 munmap(0x400b9000, 4096) = 0
10:59:56.191850 stat64("/usr/lib/python2.7/site-packages/setuptools-0.6c11-py2.7.egg-info", {st_mode=S_IFREG|0644, st_size=144, ...}) = 0
10:59:56.196664 stat64("/usr/lib/python2.7/site-packages/flup-1.0.2-py2.7.egg/usercustomize", 0xbeb23dd0) = -1 ENOENT (No such file or directory)
10:59:56.198912 open("/usr/lib/python2.7/site-packages/flup-1.0.2-py2.7.egg/usercustomize.so", O_RDONLY|O_LARGEFILE) = -1 ENOENT (No such file or directory)
10:59:56.201723 open("/usr/lib/python2.7/site-packages/flup-1.0.2-py2.7.egg/usercustomizemodule.so", O_RDONLY|O_LARGEFILE) = -1 ENOENT (No such file or directory)
10:59:56.204074 open("/usr/lib/python2.7/site-packages/flup-1.0.2-py2.7.egg/usercustomize.py", O_RDONLY|O_LARGEFILE) = -1 ENOENT (No such file or directory)
10:59:56.206477 open("/usr/lib/python2.7/site-packages/flup-1.0.2-py2.7.egg/usercustomize.pyc", O_RDONLY|O_LARGEFILE) = -1 ENOENT (No such file or directory)
10:59:56.208778 stat64("/usr/lib/python2.7/usercustomize", 0xbeb23dd0) = -1 ENOENT (No such file or directory)
10:59:56.210872 open("/usr/lib/python2.7/usercustomize.so", O_RDONLY|O_LARGEFILE) = -1 ENOENT (No such file or directory)
10:59:56.212603 open("/usr/lib/python2.7/usercustomizemodule.so", O_RDONLY|O_LARGEFILE) = -1 ENOENT (No such file or directory)
10:59:56.214451 open("/usr/lib/python2.7/usercustomize.py", O_RDONLY|O_LARGEFILE) = -1 ENOENT (No such file or directory)
10:59:56.216556 open("/usr/lib/python2.7/usercustomize.pyc", O_RDONLY|O_LARGEFILE) = -1 ENOENT (No such file or directory)
10:59:56.218333 stat64("/usr/lib/python2.7/plat-linux2/usercustomize", 0xbeb23dd0) = -1 ENOENT (No such file or directory)
10:59:56.220395 open("/usr/lib/python2.7/plat-linux2/usercustomize.so", O_RDONLY|O_LARGEFILE) = -1 ENOENT (No such file or directory)
10:59:56.222245 open("/usr/lib/python2.7/plat-linux2/usercustomizemodule.so", O_RDONLY|O_LARGEFILE) = -1 ENOENT (No such file or directory)
10:59:56.224258 open("/usr/lib/python2.7/plat-linux2/usercustomize.py", O_RDONLY|O_LARGEFILE) = -1 ENOENT (No such file or directory)
10:59:56.226521 open("/usr/lib/python2.7/plat-linux2/usercustomize.pyc", O_RDONLY|O_LARGEFILE) = -1 ENOENT (No such file or directory)
10:59:56.228719 stat64("/usr/lib/python2.7/lib-dynload/usercustomize", 0xbeb23dd0) = -1 ENOENT (No such file or directory)
10:59:56.231130 open("/usr/lib/python2.7/lib-dynload/usercustomize.so", O_RDONLY|O_LARGEFILE) = -1 ENOENT (No such file or directory)
10:59:56.233040 open("/usr/lib/python2.7/lib-dynload/usercustomizemodule.so", O_RDONLY|O_LARGEFILE) = -1 ENOENT (No such file or directory)
10:59:56.234826 open("/usr/lib/python2.7/lib-dynload/usercustomize.py", O_RDONLY|O_LARGEFILE) = -1 ENOENT (No such file or directory)
10:59:56.237098 open("/usr/lib/python2.7/lib-dynload/usercustomize.pyc", O_RDONLY|O_LARGEFILE) = -1 ENOENT (No such file or directory)
10:59:56.239046 stat64("/usr/lib/python2.7/site-packages/usercustomize", 0xbeb23dd0) = -1 ENOENT (No such file or directory)
10:59:56.242004 open("/usr/lib/python2.7/site-packages/usercustomize.so", O_RDONLY|O_LARGEFILE) = -1 ENOENT (No such file or directory)
10:59:56.243965 open("/usr/lib/python2.7/site-packages/usercustomizemodule.so", O_RDONLY|O_LARGEFILE) = -1 ENOENT (No such file or directory)
10:59:56.246552 open("/usr/lib/python2.7/site-packages/usercustomize.py", O_RDONLY|O_LARGEFILE) = -1 ENOENT (No such file or directory)
10:59:56.248348 open("/usr/lib/python2.7/site-packages/usercustomize.pyc", O_RDONLY|O_LARGEFILE) = -1 ENOENT (No such file or directory)
10:59:56.251717 close(3)                = 0
10:59:56.252845 munmap(0x4016f000, 4096) = 0
10:59:56.254964 stat64("/usr/lib/python2.7/site-packages/flup-1.0.2-py2.7.egg/encodings", 0xbeb26310) = -1 ENOENT (No such file or directory)
10:59:56.257447 open("/usr/lib/python2.7/site-packages/flup-1.0.2-py2.7.egg/encodings.so", O_RDONLY|O_LARGEFILE) = -1 ENOENT (No such file or directory)
10:59:56.259629 open("/usr/lib/python2.7/site-packages/flup-1.0.2-py2.7.egg/encodingsmodule.so", O_RDONLY|O_LARGEFILE) = -1 ENOENT (No such file or directory)
10:59:56.262146 open("/usr/lib/python2.7/site-packages/flup-1.0.2-py2.7.egg/encodings.py", O_RDONLY|O_LARGEFILE) = -1 ENOENT (No such file or directory)
10:59:56.264228 open("/usr/lib/python2.7/site-packages/flup-1.0.2-py2.7.egg/encodings.pyc", O_RDONLY|O_LARGEFILE) = -1 ENOENT (No such file or directory)
10:59:56.266878 stat64("/usr/lib/python2.7/encodings", {st_mode=S_IFDIR|0755, st_size=8936, ...}) = 0
10:59:56.269928 stat64("/usr/lib/python2.7/encodings/__init__.py", 0xbeb26250) = -1 ENOENT (No such file or directory)
10:59:56.272081 stat64("/usr/lib/python2.7/encodings/__init__.pyc", {st_mode=S_IFREG|0644, st_size=4370, ...}) = 0
10:59:56.275884 stat64("/usr/lib/python2.7/encodings/__init__", 0xbeb252e0) = -1 ENOENT (No such file or directory)
10:59:56.277582 open("/usr/lib/python2.7/encodings/__init__.so", O_RDONLY|O_LARGEFILE) = -1 ENOENT (No such file or directory)
10:59:56.279539 open("/usr/lib/python2.7/encodings/__init__module.so", O_RDONLY|O_LARGEFILE) = -1 ENOENT (No such file or directory)
10:59:56.281836 open("/usr/lib/python2.7/encodings/__init__.py", O_RDONLY|O_LARGEFILE) = -1 ENOENT (No such file or directory)
10:59:56.283679 open("/usr/lib/python2.7/encodings/__init__.pyc", O_RDONLY|O_LARGEFILE) = 3
10:59:56.285828 fstat64(3, {st_mode=S_IFREG|0644, st_size=4370, ...}) = 0
10:59:56.288353 mmap2(NULL, 4096, PROT_READ|PROT_WRITE, MAP_PRIVATE|MAP_ANONYMOUS, -1, 0) = 0x40010000
10:59:56.289537 read(3, "\3\363\r\n\372\212\351Sc\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\3\0\0\0@\0\0\0s\216\0\0\0d\0"..., 4096) = 4096
10:59:56.292030 fstat64(3, {st_mode=S_IFREG|0644, st_size=4370, ...}) = 0
10:59:56.297920 read(3, "\1$\1$\0016\0016\1\3\1\3\1\26\1\"\0015\1\22\3\n\4\3\1\20\1\r\1\4\2\r"..., 4096) = 274
10:59:56.299574 read(3, "", 4096)       = 0
10:59:56.302680 stat64("/usr/lib/python2.7/encodings", {st_mode=S_IFDIR|0755, st_size=8936, ...}) = 0
10:59:56.306075 stat64("/usr/lib/python2.7/encodings", {st_mode=S_IFDIR|0755, st_size=8936, ...}) = 0
10:59:56.309252 stat64("/usr/lib/python2.7/encodings/codecs", 0xbeb22fe8) = -1 ENOENT (No such file or directory)
10:59:56.316384 open("/usr/lib/python2.7/encodings/codecs.so", O_RDONLY|O_LARGEFILE) = -1 ENOENT (No such file or directory)
10:59:56.318151 open("/usr/lib/python2.7/encodings/codecsmodule.so", O_RDONLY|O_LARGEFILE) = -1 ENOENT (No such file or directory)
10:59:56.319956 open("/usr/lib/python2.7/encodings/codecs.py", O_RDONLY|O_LARGEFILE) = -1 ENOENT (No such file or directory)
10:59:56.327146 open("/usr/lib/python2.7/encodings/codecs.pyc", O_RDONLY|O_LARGEFILE) = -1 ENOENT (No such file or directory)
10:59:56.329158 stat64("/usr/lib/python2.7/site-packages/flup-1.0.2-py2.7.egg/codecs", 0xbeb22fe8) = -1 ENOENT (No such file or directory)
10:59:56.336640 open("/usr/lib/python2.7/site-packages/flup-1.0.2-py2.7.egg/codecs.so", O_RDONLY|O_LARGEFILE) = -1 ENOENT (No such file or directory)
10:59:56.338769 open("/usr/lib/python2.7/site-packages/flup-1.0.2-py2.7.egg/codecsmodule.so", O_RDONLY|O_LARGEFILE) = -1 ENOENT (No such file or directory)
10:59:56.346428 open("/usr/lib/python2.7/site-packages/flup-1.0.2-py2.7.egg/codecs.py", O_RDONLY|O_LARGEFILE) = -1 ENOENT (No such file or directory)
10:59:56.348506 open("/usr/lib/python2.7/site-packages/flup-1.0.2-py2.7.egg/codecs.pyc", O_RDONLY|O_LARGEFILE) = -1 ENOENT (No such file or directory)
10:59:56.356142 stat64("/usr/lib/python2.7/codecs", 0xbeb22fe8) = -1 ENOENT (No such file or directory)
10:59:56.357756 open("/usr/lib/python2.7/codecs.so", O_RDONLY|O_LARGEFILE) = -1 ENOENT (No such file or directory)
10:59:56.359494 open("/usr/lib/python2.7/codecsmodule.so", O_RDONLY|O_LARGEFILE) = -1 ENOENT (No such file or directory)
10:59:56.366549 open("/usr/lib/python2.7/codecs.py", O_RDONLY|O_LARGEFILE) = -1 ENOENT (No such file or directory)
10:59:56.368239 open("/usr/lib/python2.7/codecs.pyc", O_RDONLY|O_LARGEFILE) = 4
10:59:56.369856 fstat64(4, {st_mode=S_IFREG|0644, st_size=36414, ...}) = 0
10:59:56.377775 mmap2(NULL, 4096, PROT_READ|PROT_WRITE, MAP_PRIVATE|MAP_ANONYMOUS, -1, 0) = 0x40033000
10:59:56.378972 read(4, "\3\363\r\n\372\212\351Sc\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\30\0\0\0@\0\0\0s7\3\0\0d\0"..., 4096) = 4096
10:59:56.386048 fstat64(4, {st_mode=S_IFREG|0644, st_size=36414, ...}) = 0
10:59:56.388689 read(4, "d\1\0S(\2\0\0\0s\372\2\0\0 Decodes the objec"..., 28672) = 28672
10:59:56.395801 read(4, "c for the given encoding and ret"..., 4096) = 3646
10:59:56.397548 read(4, "", 4096)       = 0
10:59:56.439426 close(4)                = 0
10:59:56.441739 munmap(0x40033000, 4096) = 0
10:59:56.443206 stat64("/usr/lib/python2.7/encodings/encodings", 0xbeb22fe8) = -1 ENOENT (No such file or directory)
10:59:56.444801 open("/usr/lib/python2.7/encodings/encodings.so", O_RDONLY|O_LARGEFILE) = -1 ENOENT (No such file or directory)
10:59:56.452187 open("/usr/lib/python2.7/encodings/encodingsmodule.so", O_RDONLY|O_LARGEFILE) = -1 ENOENT (No such file or directory)
10:59:56.454098 open("/usr/lib/python2.7/encodings/encodings.py", O_RDONLY|O_LARGEFILE) = -1 ENOENT (No such file or directory)
10:59:56.458556 open("/usr/lib/python2.7/encodings/encodings.pyc", O_RDONLY|O_LARGEFILE) = -1 ENOENT (No such file or directory)
10:59:56.461542 stat64("/usr/lib/python2.7/encodings/aliases", 0xbeb22fd0) = -1 ENOENT (No such file or directory)
10:59:56.463324 open("/usr/lib/python2.7/encodings/aliases.so", O_RDONLY|O_LARGEFILE) = -1 ENOENT (No such file or directory)
10:59:56.470530 open("/usr/lib/python2.7/encodings/aliasesmodule.so", O_RDONLY|O_LARGEFILE) = -1 ENOENT (No such file or directory)
10:59:56.472318 open("/usr/lib/python2.7/encodings/aliases.py", O_RDONLY|O_LARGEFILE) = -1 ENOENT (No such file or directory)
10:59:56.474005 open("/usr/lib/python2.7/encodings/aliases.pyc", O_RDONLY|O_LARGEFILE) = 4
10:59:56.476116 fstat64(4, {st_mode=S_IFREG|0644, st_size=8768, ...}) = 0
10:59:56.478729 mmap2(NULL, 4096, PROT_READ|PROT_WRITE, MAP_PRIVATE|MAP_ANONYMOUS, -1, 0) = 0x40001000
10:59:56.479989 read(4, "\3\363\r\n\372\212\351Sc\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\3\0\0\0@\0\0\0su\10\0\0d\0"..., 4096) = 4096
10:59:56.486895 fstat64(4, {st_mode=S_IFREG|0644, st_size=8768, ...}) = 0
10:59:56.489514 read(4, "ibm860t\6\0\0\0ibm860t\5\0\0\0cp861t\3\0\0\0"..., 4096) = 4096
10:59:56.496666 read(4, "\7\3\7\1\7\1\7\1\7\1\7\1\7\1\7\1\7\3\7\1\7\1\7\3\7\1\7\3\7\1\7\3"..., 4096) = 576
10:59:56.498338 read(4, "", 4096)       = 0
10:59:56.511824 close(4)                = 0
10:59:56.513013 munmap(0x40001000, 4096) = 0
10:59:56.514483 stat64("/usr/lib/python2.7/encodings/__builtin__", 0xbeb22fe8) = -1 ENOENT (No such file or directory)
10:59:56.516595 open("/usr/lib/python2.7/encodings/__builtin__.so", O_RDONLY|O_LARGEFILE) = -1 ENOENT (No such file or directory)
10:59:56.518494 open("/usr/lib/python2.7/encodings/__builtin__module.so", O_RDONLY|O_LARGEFILE) = -1 ENOENT (No such file or directory)
10:59:56.525866 open("/usr/lib/python2.7/encodings/__builtin__.py", O_RDONLY|O_LARGEFILE) = -1 ENOENT (No such file or directory)
10:59:56.527769 open("/usr/lib/python2.7/encodings/__builtin__.pyc", O_RDONLY|O_LARGEFILE) = -1 ENOENT (No such file or directory)
10:59:56.536842 close(3)                = 0
10:59:56.538021 munmap(0x40010000, 4096) = 0
10:59:56.541363 stat64("/usr/lib/python2.7/encodings/ascii", 0xbeb26108) = -1 ENOENT (No such file or directory)
10:59:56.542884 open("/usr/lib/python2.7/encodings/ascii.so", O_RDONLY|O_LARGEFILE) = -1 ENOENT (No such file or directory)
10:59:56.544646 open("/usr/lib/python2.7/encodings/asciimodule.so", O_RDONLY|O_LARGEFILE) = -1 ENOENT (No such file or directory)
10:59:56.552112 open("/usr/lib/python2.7/encodings/ascii.py", O_RDONLY|O_LARGEFILE) = -1 ENOENT (No such file or directory)
10:59:56.553905 open("/usr/lib/python2.7/encodings/ascii.pyc", O_RDONLY|O_LARGEFILE) = 3
10:59:56.560985 fstat64(3, {st_mode=S_IFREG|0644, st_size=2261, ...}) = 0
10:59:56.563530 mmap2(NULL, 4096, PROT_READ|PROT_WRITE, MAP_PRIVATE|MAP_ANONYMOUS, -1, 0) = 0x40080000
10:59:56.564722 read(3, "\3\363\r\n\372\212\351Sc\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\3\0\0\0@\0\0\0s\273\0\0\0d\0"..., 4096) = 2261
10:59:56.570504 fstat64(3, {st_mode=S_IFREG|0644, st_size=2261, ...}) = 0
10:59:56.573106 read(3, "", 4096)       = 0
10:59:56.584506 close(3)                = 0
10:59:56.585874 munmap(0x40080000, 4096) = 0
10:59:56.588388 ioctl(0, SNDCTL_TMR_TIMEBASE or SNDRV_TIMER_IOCTL_NEXT_DEVICE or TCGETS, {B38400 opost isig icanon echo ...}) = 0
10:59:56.595689 ioctl(1, SNDCTL_TMR_TIMEBASE or SNDRV_TIMER_IOCTL_NEXT_DEVICE or TCGETS, 0xbeb2a43c) = -1 ENOTTY (Inappropriate ioctl for device)
10:59:56.596969 ioctl(2, SNDCTL_TMR_TIMEBASE or SNDRV_TIMER_IOCTL_NEXT_DEVICE or TCGETS, 0xbeb2a43c) = -1 ENOTTY (Inappropriate ioctl for device)
10:59:56.598224 readlink("./a.py", 0xbeb27518, 4096) = -1 EINVAL (Invalid argument)
10:59:56.599506 getcwd("/root", 4096)   = 6
10:59:56.606038 lstat64("/root/a.py", {st_mode=S_IFREG|0755, st_size=47, ...}) = 0
10:59:56.609030 stat64("./a.py", {st_mode=S_IFREG|0755, st_size=47, ...}) = 0
10:59:56.617132 open("./a.py", O_RDONLY|O_LARGEFILE) = 3
10:59:56.618392 fstat64(3, {st_mode=S_IFREG|0755, st_size=47, ...}) = 0
10:59:56.626198 mmap2(NULL, 4096, PROT_READ|PROT_WRITE, MAP_PRIVATE|MAP_ANONYMOUS, -1, 0) = 0x400fc000
10:59:56.627212 fstat64(3, {st_mode=S_IFREG|0755, st_size=47, ...}) = 0
10:59:56.629763 _llseek(3, 0, [0], SEEK_SET) = 0
10:59:56.636366 read(3, "#!/usr/bin/env python\n\npr", 25) = 25
10:59:56.638000 read(3, "int 'hello, python'\n\n\n", 4096) = 22
10:59:56.639472 close(3)                = 0
10:59:56.646136 munmap(0x400fc000, 4096) = 0
10:59:56.647464 stat64("./a.py", {st_mode=S_IFREG|0755, st_size=47, ...}) = 0
10:59:56.650748 open("./a.py", O_RDONLY|O_LARGEFILE) = 3
10:59:56.652072 fstat64(3, {st_mode=S_IFREG|0755, st_size=47, ...}) = 0
10:59:56.654611 ioctl(3, SNDCTL_TMR_TIMEBASE or SNDRV_TIMER_IOCTL_NEXT_DEVICE or TCGETS, 0xbeb2a4a4) = -1 ENOTTY (Inappropriate ioctl for device)
10:59:56.656165 fstat64(3, {st_mode=S_IFREG|0755, st_size=47, ...}) = 0
10:59:56.658775 mmap2(NULL, 4096, PROT_READ|PROT_WRITE, MAP_PRIVATE|MAP_ANONYMOUS, -1, 0) = 0x400c8000
10:59:56.665431 _llseek(3, 0, [0], SEEK_CUR) = 0
10:59:56.666664 read(3, "#!/usr/bin/env python\n\nprint 'he"..., 4096) = 47
10:59:56.668349 _llseek(3, 47, [47], SEEK_SET) = 0
10:59:56.675532 read(3, "", 4096)       = 0
10:59:56.676887 close(3)                = 0
10:59:56.677948 munmap(0x400c8000, 4096) = 0
10:59:56.679896 fstat64(1, {st_mode=S_IFREG|0644, st_size=65550, ...}) = 0
10:59:56.687964 mmap2(NULL, 4096, PROT_READ|PROT_WRITE, MAP_PRIVATE|MAP_ANONYMOUS, -1, 0) = 0x4000a000
10:59:56.689764 rt_sigaction(SIGINT, {SIG_DFL, [], 0x4000000 /* SA_??? */}, {0x40360fe8, [], 0x4000000 /* SA_??? */}, 8) = 0
10:59:56.791674 write(1, "hello, python\n", 14hello, python
) = 14
10:59:56.804280 exit_group(0)           = ?
10:59:56.812284 +++ exited with 0 +++
---cut end---

-woody


From breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk  Fri Apr 24 03:31:23 2015
From: breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk (Mark Lawrence)
Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2015 08:31:23 +0100
Subject: New to Python - block grouping (spaces)
In-Reply-To: <6580b5d5-92f5-4bfa-b1d0-889c69fe82bb@googlegroups.com>
References: <9fc57fc9-0399-4ff3-882a-d041f02827d8@googlegroups.com>
 <6580b5d5-92f5-4bfa-b1d0-889c69fe82bb@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <mhcrge$ud2$1@ger.gmane.org>

On 16/04/2015 15:52, Blake McBride wrote:
>  So, Python may be a cute language for you to use as an individual, but it is unwieldy in a real development environment.
>

First paragraph from 
http://www.talkpythontome.com/episodes/show/4/enterprise-python-and-large-scale-projects

<quote>
Mahmoud is lead developer of the Python Infrastructure team at 
eBay/PayPal and he has some amazing facts and studies to discuss about 
the truths and myths using Python for real projects. We discuss how eBay 
is using Python internally for many large-scale uses. Then we move on to 
discuss the 10 myths of enterprise Python, such as Python is not 
compiled, Python is weakly-typed, Python does not scale, and more. </quote>

-- 
My fellow Pythonistas, ask not what our language can do for you, ask
what you can do for our language.

Mark Lawrence



From coreyahmet at gmail.com  Fri Apr 24 04:29:37 2015
From: coreyahmet at gmail.com (brokolists)
Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2015 01:29:37 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: can you help guys?
In-Reply-To: <55397e17$0$12977$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
References: <9ab3f79f-6956-498b-a49a-1d00ad9d0cdb@googlegroups.com>
 <55397e17$0$12977$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <3b18ae75-e5e9-48c5-a5b2-b2c02cccb2ee@googlegroups.com>

24 Nisan 2015 Cuma 02:20:12 UTC+3 tarihinde Steven D'Aprano yazd?:
> On Fri, 24 Apr 2015 01:51 am, brokolists wrote:
> 
> > my problem is i m working with very long float numbers and i use
> > numberx =float(( input( 'enter the number\n ')))
> > after i use this command when i enter something more than 10 or 11 digits
> > it uses like 1e+10 or something like that but i have to calculate it
> > without scientific 'e' type. what can i do to solve this? (sorry for my
> > bad english)
> 
> 
> Are you sure? Can you give an example? This works for me:
> 
> py> s = input("Enter a number: ")
> Enter a number: 0.123456789012345
> py> len(s) - 2  # Number of digits
> 15
> py> x = float(s)
> py> print(x)
> 0.123456789012345
> 
> Maybe you shouldn't be using floats:
> 
> py> n = int(input("Enter a number: "))
> Enter a number: 123456789012345678901234567890
> py> print(n)
> 123456789012345678901234567890
> py> print(n+1)
> 123456789012345678901234567891
> 
> 
> Integers will not use scientific "e" notation, but floats will. But that is
> only the *display* format:
> 
> py> x = float(input("Enter a number in Sci format: "))
> Enter a number in Sci format: 1.234e10
> py> print(x)
> 12340000000.0
> py> print("%f" % x)
> 12340000000.000000
> py> print("%g" % x)
> 1.234e+10
> 
> Notice that displaying the float with %f and %g format codes look different,
> but are the same number.
> 
> You will need to explain more about what you are trying to do before we can
> give you good advise. Perhaps if you show us some examples?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Steven

i fixed the "e" problem by using digits

getcontext().prec=20
it works fine but in my algoritm it was checking the answers by their lenght so this created a new problem by giving all the answers with 20 digits. I might fix this but i have searched for 4 hours just how to get rid of 'e' . i think there must be a easier way to do this.





From wxjmfauth at gmail.com  Fri Apr 24 04:50:32 2015
From: wxjmfauth at gmail.com (wxjmfauth at gmail.com)
Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2015 01:50:32 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: New to Python - block grouping (spaces)
In-Reply-To: <5534d52d$0$2915$c3e8da3$76491128@news.astraweb.com>
References: <9fc57fc9-0399-4ff3-882a-d041f02827d8@googlegroups.com>
 <6580b5d5-92f5-4bfa-b1d0-889c69fe82bb@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.374.1429285961.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <mgrcb5$sn2$1@reader1.panix.com> <Y3bYw.302660$ms.24839@fx30.am4>
 <mailman.388.1429323788.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <7tMYw.252071$SO1.39320@fx43.am4>
 <mailman.405.1429456511.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <7413a8e7-b580-4b2f-84bc-dd13da2d36ba@googlegroups.com>
 <5533eb85$0$12992$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <16d59891-6e28-4256-870a-903bb75aa953@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.3.1429496666.31470.python-list@python.org>
 <a745d401-190d-4e7b-bc90-85f7e2cd6504@googlegroups.com>
 <5534d52d$0$2915$c3e8da3$76491128@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <789c7b7e-a54d-46b7-8f33-0aa304482234@googlegroups.com>

Le lundi 20 avril 2015 12:30:16 UTC+2, Steven D'Aprano a ?crit?:
> 
> You have ten PDF files in which you want to replace the word "f" with the 
> word "longname".
> 
> 

Come on. This denotes a non undestanding of "pdf".

Your "pdf" may not even contains a "char id" / "glyph",
your replacement string may need.

Unicode and related stuff.

Serious users can  be happy, all this is not
working ? la Python. What a disaster it would
be.

jmf



From davea at davea.name  Fri Apr 24 07:07:25 2015
From: davea at davea.name (Dave Angel)
Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2015 07:07:25 -0400
Subject: can you help guys?
In-Reply-To: <3b18ae75-e5e9-48c5-a5b2-b2c02cccb2ee@googlegroups.com>
References: <9ab3f79f-6956-498b-a49a-1d00ad9d0cdb@googlegroups.com>
 <55397e17$0$12977$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <3b18ae75-e5e9-48c5-a5b2-b2c02cccb2ee@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <553A23ED.50501@davea.name>

On 04/24/2015 04:29 AM, brokolists wrote:
> 24 Nisan 2015 Cuma 02:20:12 UTC+3 tarihinde Steven D'Aprano yazd?:
>> On Fri, 24 Apr 2015 01:51 am, brokolists wrote:
>>
>>> my problem is i m working with very long float numbers and i use
>>> numberx =float(( input( 'enter the number\n ')))
>>> after i use this command when i enter something more than 10 or 11 digits
>>> it uses like 1e+10 or something like that but i have to calculate it
>>> without scientific 'e' type. what can i do to solve this? (sorry for my
>>> bad english)
>>
>>

>
> i fixed the "e" problem by using digits
>
> getcontext().prec=20
> it works fine but in my algoritm it was checking the answers by their lenght so this created a new problem by giving all the answers with 20 digits. I might fix this but i have searched for 4 hours just how to get rid of 'e' . i think there must be a easier way to do this.
>

We could be a lot more helpful if you just spelled it out.  digits and 
getcontext() are not builtins, so we don't really know how you're using 
them, except by guessing.

You've changed the code, probably by using one of the many suggestions 
here.  But what's it look like now?

You should have started the thread by telling us the Python version. 
I'm guessing you're using python 3.x


In Python 3.x, input() returns a string.  So you can tell how much the 
user typed by doing a len() on that string.  Once you convert it into 
some other form, you're choosing the number of digits partly by how you 
convert it.

Can you state what your real assignment is?  And what code you have so 
far?  And just what is wrong with it, that you need to change?

For example, if the "correct" answer for your user is "7.3"  and the 
user types  "7.300" is that supposed to be right, or wrong?




-- 
DaveA


From jerrypuzziddu at gmx.com  Fri Apr 24 08:30:39 2015
From: jerrypuzziddu at gmx.com (MEMOCHE NOVE)
Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2015 05:30:39 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: -- redacted --
Message-ID: <52b61e23-1101-40f0-8b5d-478f9f95262c@googlegroups.com>

-- redacted --


From cfkaran2 at gmail.com  Fri Apr 24 08:42:35 2015
From: cfkaran2 at gmail.com (Cem Karan)
Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2015 08:42:35 -0400
Subject: Diff between object graphs?
In-Reply-To: <CADGykufad+OZ8iJUiYTbMt=V6VMWuPe1GemWg7HwwvK9Wjw4JQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <78DAD20A-71C4-4EE9-AA85-935822A470AF@gmail.com>
 <mh85kk$5g1$1@ger.gmane.org> <F053A223-0208-457B-A5DF-5360EF9748F9@gmail.com>
 <55384CDE.5020800@davea.name>
 <CAPTjJmqF7Dcma=Yh-mU+3c_PbHe0iba4m7_XtM3C71Kj2O2bDQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.81.1429754041.31470.python-list@python.org>
 <55388a2e$0$12999$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <6902B9A8-8187-4E98-8472-1A4503F1292D@gmail.com>
 <CADGykufad+OZ8iJUiYTbMt=V6VMWuPe1GemWg7HwwvK9Wjw4JQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <465EC94F-B3F9-4873-B715-6C54F22140CA@gmail.com>


On Apr 23, 2015, at 11:05 AM, Steve Smaldone <smaldone at gmail.com> wrote:

> On Thu, Apr 23, 2015 at 6:34 AM, Cem Karan <cfkaran2 at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> On Apr 23, 2015, at 1:59 AM, Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info> wrote:
> 
> > On Thursday 23 April 2015 11:53, Cem Karan wrote:
> >
> >> Precisely.  In order to make my simulations more realistic, I use a lot of
> >> random numbers.  I can fake things by keeping the seed to the generator,
> >> but if I want to do any sort of hardware in the loop simulations, then
> >> that approach won't work.
> >
> > That's exactly why we have *pseudo* random number generators. They are
> > statistically indistinguishable from "real" randomness, but repeatable when
> > needed.
> 
> Which is why is why I mentioned keeping the seed above.  The problem is that I eventually want to do hardware in the loop, which will involve IO between the simulation machine and the actual robots, and IO timing is imprecise and uncontrollable.  That is where not recording something becomes lossy.  That said, the mere act of trying to record everything is going to cause timing issues, so I guess I'm over thinking things yet again.
> 
> Thanks for the help everyone, its helped me clarify what I need to do in my mind.
> 
>  
> Well, you could achieve this on Linux by using the rdiff library.  Not exactly a purely Python solution, but it would give you file-based diffs.  
> 
> Basically, what you could do is write the first file.  Then for each subsequent saves, write out the file (as a temp file) and issue shell commands (via the Python script) to calculate the diffs of the new file against the first (basis) file.  Once you remove the temp files, you'd have a full first save and a set of diffs against that file.  You could rehydrate any save you want by applying the diff to the basis.
> 
> If you work on it a bit, you might even be able to avoid the temp file saves by using pipes in the shell command.
> 
> Of course, I haven't tested this so there may be non-obvious issues with diffing between subsequent pickled saves, but it seems that it should work on the surface.

That might work... although I'm running on OS X right now, once I get to the hardware in the loop part, it's all going to be some flavor of Linux.  I'll look into it... thanks!

Thanks,
Cem Karan

From werotizy at freent.dd  Fri Apr 24 08:52:41 2015
From: werotizy at freent.dd (Tom P)
Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2015 14:52:41 +0200
Subject: want to learn python
In-Reply-To: <6e61e220-f97f-4432-a089-ef73cd63db14@googlegroups.com>
References: <6e61e220-f97f-4432-a089-ef73cd63db14@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <cpuskqF5qudU1@mid.individual.net>

On 04/21/2015 12:57 PM, pm05491 at gmail.com wrote:
> Hello everyone,
>
> I am willing to learn Python from scratch.Please he me to learn.Although I hv knowledge of c and object oriented programming.
>

Apart from the various tutorials you might want to look at the on-line 
courses offered by Coursera and EDX.

https://www.coursera.org/course/pythonlearn
https://www.edx.org/course/introduction-computer-science-mitx-6-00-1x-0

Check out the websites for more advanced courses.


From jtim.arnold at gmail.com  Fri Apr 24 09:33:11 2015
From: jtim.arnold at gmail.com (Tim)
Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2015 06:33:11 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: aiohttp vs requests: async failures
Message-ID: <16f435cb-aee1-48af-b65c-d400425f1f97@googlegroups.com>

hi, I posted this on stackoverflow but got no comment or answer. 
Any suggestion on what's going on, or how I can make this a better question?

http://stackoverflow.com/questions/29827642/asynchronous-aiohttp-requests-fails-but-synchronous-requests-succeed

With the following code I get "Cannot connect to host ...:443 ssl:True" when I use the asynchronous aiohttp. When I use synchronous requests, it succeeds.

The whitehouse.gov links fail, but the google.com succeeds for both async and sync cases.

What is going wrong? This is with python 3.4.2 on FreeBSD8, aiohttp 0.14.4, requests 2.5.3

CODE:
import asyncio
import aiohttp
import requests

urls = [
    'http://www.whitehouse.gov/cea/', 
    'http://www.whitehouse.gov/omb', 
    'http://www.google.com']


def test_sync():
    for url in urls:
        r = requests.get(url)
        print(r.status_code)


def test_async():
    for url in urls:
        try:
            r = yield from aiohttp.request('get', url)
        except aiohttp.errors.ClientOSError as e:
            print('bad eternal link %s: %s' % (url, e))
        else:
            print(r.status)


if __name__ == '__main__':
    print('async')
    asyncio.get_event_loop().run_until_complete(test_async())
    print('sync')
    test_sync()

RESULT:
async
bad eternal link http://www.whitehouse.gov/cea: Cannot connect to host www.whitehouse.gov:443 ssl:True
bad eternal link http://www.whitehouse.gov/omb: Cannot connect to host www.whitehouse.gov:443 ssl:True
200
sync
200
200
200

thanks for any advice,
--Tim


From vincent at vincentdavis.net  Fri Apr 24 09:35:25 2015
From: vincent at vincentdavis.net (Vincent Davis)
Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2015 07:35:25 -0600
Subject: date from day (count) of year
Message-ID: <CALyJZZXadojH07+icqqqA0hSEb8jM0Op4T=5kfUdkGdUpwn+YQ@mail.gmail.com>

How does one get the date given the day of a year.

>>> dt.datetime.now().timetuple().tm_yday

114
How would I get the Date of the 114 day of 2014?

Vincent Davis
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/attachments/20150424/aad974de/attachment.html>

From ian.g.kelly at gmail.com  Fri Apr 24 10:01:54 2015
From: ian.g.kelly at gmail.com (Ian Kelly)
Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2015 08:01:54 -0600
Subject: date from day (count) of year
In-Reply-To: <CALyJZZXadojH07+icqqqA0hSEb8jM0Op4T=5kfUdkGdUpwn+YQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CALyJZZXadojH07+icqqqA0hSEb8jM0Op4T=5kfUdkGdUpwn+YQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CALwzidk7LLtvfohcDPuFE8J0XYLz6p03capvoucvB8Vg64pPLw@mail.gmail.com>

On Apr 24, 2015 7:45 AM, "Vincent Davis" <vincent at vincentdavis.net> wrote:
>
> How does one get the date given the day of a year.
>
> >>> dt.datetime.now().timetuple().tm_yday
>
> 114
>
> How would I get the Date of the 114 day of 2014?

You could use a timedelta:

>>> dt.date(2014, 1, 1) + dt.timedelta(114 - 1)
datetime.date(2014, 4, 24)
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/attachments/20150424/ab3b461d/attachment.html>

From torriem at gmail.com  Fri Apr 24 10:03:36 2015
From: torriem at gmail.com (Michael Torrie)
Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2015 08:03:36 -0600
Subject: New to Python - block grouping (spaces)
In-Reply-To: <mhcrge$ud2$1@ger.gmane.org>
References: <9fc57fc9-0399-4ff3-882a-d041f02827d8@googlegroups.com>
 <6580b5d5-92f5-4bfa-b1d0-889c69fe82bb@googlegroups.com>
 <mhcrge$ud2$1@ger.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <553A4D38.9090107@gmail.com>

On 04/24/2015 01:31 AM, Mark Lawrence wrote:
> On 16/04/2015 15:52, Blake McBride wrote:
>>  So, Python may be a cute language for you to use as an individual, but it is unwieldy in a real development environment.
>>
> 
> First paragraph from 
> http://www.talkpythontome.com/episodes/show/4/enterprise-python-and-large-scale-projects
> 
> <quote>
> Mahmoud is lead developer of the Python Infrastructure team at 
> eBay/PayPal and he has some amazing facts and studies to discuss about 
> the truths and myths using Python for real projects. We discuss how eBay 
> is using Python internally for many large-scale uses. Then we move on to 
> discuss the 10 myths of enterprise Python, such as Python is not 
> compiled, Python is weakly-typed, Python does not scale, and more. </quote>

Thanks for posting this.  Very interesting.  Unfortunately the original
poster is long gone and will never benefit from this. Too bad.



From vincent at vincentdavis.net  Fri Apr 24 10:23:38 2015
From: vincent at vincentdavis.net (Vincent Davis)
Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2015 08:23:38 -0600
Subject: date from day (count) of year
In-Reply-To: <CALwzidk7LLtvfohcDPuFE8J0XYLz6p03capvoucvB8Vg64pPLw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CALyJZZXadojH07+icqqqA0hSEb8jM0Op4T=5kfUdkGdUpwn+YQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CALwzidk7LLtvfohcDPuFE8J0XYLz6p03capvoucvB8Vg64pPLw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CALyJZZXYgxM0DREStJO0rGK2SmPJsQ7Ow+diZfGATZv_A0F4TA@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Apr 24, 2015 at 8:01 AM, Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly at gmail.com> wrote:

> >>> dt.date(2014, 1, 1) + dt.timedelta(114 - 1)
> datetime.date(2014, 4, 24)
>

?Thanks!?
Vincent Davis
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/attachments/20150424/f40c6777/attachment.html>

From subhabrata.banerji at gmail.com  Fri Apr 24 10:50:11 2015
From: subhabrata.banerji at gmail.com (subhabrata.banerji at gmail.com)
Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2015 07:50:11 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Boolean Operator Confusion
Message-ID: <fa297093-4de1-49d2-be0e-45aa2017c75a@googlegroups.com>

Dear Group,

I am trying to understand the use of Boolean operator in Python. I am trying to 
write small piece of script, as follows,

def input_test():
	str1=raw_input("PRINT QUERY:")
	if "AND" or "OR" or "NOT" in str1:
		print "It is a Boolean Query"
	elif "AND" or "OR" or "NOT" not in str1:
		print "It is not a Boolean Query"
	else:
		print "None"

I am trying to achieve if the words "AND","OR","NOT" ... in string I want to recognize it as,
Boolean Query, if they are not there the string is not Boolean query. 
As I am trying to test it I am getting following output,

>>> input_test()
PRINT QUERY:obama AND clinton
It is a Boolean Query
>>> input_test()
PRINT QUERY:obama clinton
It is a Boolean Query

To understand Boolean operators I have tried to read the follwing link,
https://docs.python.org/release/2.5.2/lib/boolean.html

and practised script like the following:
>>> def currency(n):
	x1=raw_input("PRINT Your Country")
	x2=raw_input("Print Your Currency")
	if x1=="USA" and x2=="Dollar":
		print "Correct"
	elif x1=="USA" and x2!="Dollar":
		print "Not Matching"
	else:
		print "None"

		
>>> currency(1)
PRINT Your CountryUSA
Print Your CurrencyDollar
Correct
>>>

But I am doing something wrong. If anybody may kindly suggest.

Regards,
Subhabrata Banerjee.
 








From ian.g.kelly at gmail.com  Fri Apr 24 11:00:13 2015
From: ian.g.kelly at gmail.com (Ian Kelly)
Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2015 09:00:13 -0600
Subject: Boolean Operator Confusion
In-Reply-To: <fa297093-4de1-49d2-be0e-45aa2017c75a@googlegroups.com>
References: <fa297093-4de1-49d2-be0e-45aa2017c75a@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <CALwzidnP-95jK+L5QOAmd9GEq-Yvwoyo41viMgetVUUGi7tr5Q@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Apr 24, 2015 at 8:50 AM,  <subhabrata.banerji at gmail.com> wrote:
> Dear Group,
>
> I am trying to understand the use of Boolean operator in Python. I am trying to
> write small piece of script, as follows,
>
> def input_test():
>         str1=raw_input("PRINT QUERY:")
>         if "AND" or "OR" or "NOT" in str1:

This is equivalent to:

    if ("AND") or ("OR") or ("NOT" in str1):

Which is always true because the truth value of the literal strings
"AND" and "OR" are true.

It is not equivalent to:

    if ("AND" in str1) or ("OR" in str1) or ("NOT" in str1):


From python.list at tim.thechases.com  Fri Apr 24 11:14:50 2015
From: python.list at tim.thechases.com (Tim Chase)
Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2015 10:14:50 -0500
Subject: Boolean Operator Confusion
In-Reply-To: <CALwzidnP-95jK+L5QOAmd9GEq-Yvwoyo41viMgetVUUGi7tr5Q@mail.gmail.com>
References: <fa297093-4de1-49d2-be0e-45aa2017c75a@googlegroups.com>
 <CALwzidnP-95jK+L5QOAmd9GEq-Yvwoyo41viMgetVUUGi7tr5Q@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20150424101450.030339c1@bigbox.christie.dr>

On 2015-04-24 09:00, Ian Kelly wrote:
> It is not equivalent to:
> 
>     if ("AND" in str1) or ("OR" in str1) or ("NOT" in str1):

Which python allows you to write nicely as

  if any(term in str1 for term in ["AND", "OR", "NOT"]):

The use of any()/all() has certainly improved the readability of my
code since they were added (in 2.5?).

-tkc





From steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info  Fri Apr 24 11:14:52 2015
From: steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: Sat, 25 Apr 2015 01:14:52 +1000
Subject: Boolean Operator Confusion
References: <fa297093-4de1-49d2-be0e-45aa2017c75a@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <553a5ded$0$12978$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

On Sat, 25 Apr 2015 12:50 am, subhabrata.banerji at gmail.com wrote:

> Dear Group,
> 
> I am trying to understand the use of Boolean operator in Python. I am
> trying to write small piece of script, as follows,
> 
> def input_test():
>     str1=raw_input("PRINT QUERY:")
>     if "AND" or "OR" or "NOT" in str1:
>         print "It is a Boolean Query"
>     elif "AND" or "OR" or "NOT" not in str1:
>         print "It is not a Boolean Query"
>     else:
>         print "None"

First problem: why do you sometimes return "None"? You have two possible
answers: either something is a boolean query, or it is not. There is no
third choice. ("It's a boolean query, but only on Wednesdays.")

So your code you have if...else and no "elif" needed.

    if <test for boolean query>:
        print "It is a Boolean Query"
    else:
        print "It is not a Boolean Query"


Now let us look at your test for a boolean query:

    "AND" or "OR" or "NOT" in str1


How does a human reader understand that as English?

    if "AND" is in the string, or "OR" is in the string, or "NOT" 
    is in the string, then it is a boolean query.

But sadly, that is not how Python sees it. Python sees it as:

    if "AND" is a true value, or if "OR" is a true value, 
    or if "NOT" is in the string, then it is a boolean query.

"AND" is always a true value. All strings except for the empty string "" are
true values, so expressions like:

    if X or Y or Z in some_string

will always be true, if X or Y are true values.

You need to re-write your test to be one of these:

    # version 1
    if "AND" in str1 or "OR" in str1 or "NOT" in str1:
        print "It is a Boolean Query"
    else:
        print "It is not a Boolean Query"


    # version 2
    if any(word in str1 for word in ("AND", "OR", "NOT")):
        print "It is a Boolean Query"
    else:
        print "It is not a Boolean Query"




-- 
Steven



From coreyahmet at gmail.com  Fri Apr 24 11:31:32 2015
From: coreyahmet at gmail.com (brokolists)
Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2015 08:31:32 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: can you help guys?
In-Reply-To: <9ab3f79f-6956-498b-a49a-1d00ad9d0cdb@googlegroups.com>
References: <9ab3f79f-6956-498b-a49a-1d00ad9d0cdb@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <79de3c2b-befd-4d53-a6db-99fb7c5ae9f3@googlegroups.com>

i fixed the problem . ty for helps btw.
the problem was after i started using Decimal was i was cheking the outputs  based on their lenght  and when you type
getcontext().prec=20 ;
it returns allmost every mathematical output based on 20 digits eventhough
when they are not neccessary like 20.00000...00 = 20
the code was to fix this was there all the time and i mannaged to find it eventually ;
Decimal.normalize(x); it deletes the unneccesary zeros.
ty for helps btw.


From subhabrata.banerji at gmail.com  Fri Apr 24 12:40:10 2015
From: subhabrata.banerji at gmail.com (subhabrata.banerji at gmail.com)
Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2015 09:40:10 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Boolean Operator Confusion
In-Reply-To: <553a5ded$0$12978$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
References: <fa297093-4de1-49d2-be0e-45aa2017c75a@googlegroups.com>
 <553a5ded$0$12978$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <ae235bd7-b7e7-453b-a604-7ba9db1b8043@googlegroups.com>

On Friday, April 24, 2015 at 8:45:04 PM UTC+5:30, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> On Sat, 25 Apr 2015 12:50 am,wrote:
> 
> > Dear Group,
> > 
> > I am trying to understand the use of Boolean operator in Python. I am
> > trying to write small piece of script, as follows,
> > 
> > def input_test():
> >     str1=raw_input("PRINT QUERY:")
> >     if "AND" or "OR" or "NOT" in str1:
> >         print "It is a Boolean Query"
> >     elif "AND" or "OR" or "NOT" not in str1:
> >         print "It is not a Boolean Query"
> >     else:
> >         print "None"
> 
> First problem: why do you sometimes return "None"? You have two possible
> answers: either something is a boolean query, or it is not. There is no
> third choice. ("It's a boolean query, but only on Wednesdays.")
> 
> So your code you have if...else and no "elif" needed.
> 
>     if <test for boolean query>:
>         print "It is a Boolean Query"
>     else:
>         print "It is not a Boolean Query"
> 
> 
> Now let us look at your test for a boolean query:
> 
>     "AND" or "OR" or "NOT" in str1
> 
> 
> How does a human reader understand that as English?
> 
>     if "AND" is in the string, or "OR" is in the string, or "NOT" 
>     is in the string, then it is a boolean query.
> 
> But sadly, that is not how Python sees it. Python sees it as:
> 
>     if "AND" is a true value, or if "OR" is a true value, 
>     or if "NOT" is in the string, then it is a boolean query.
> 
> "AND" is always a true value. All strings except for the empty string "" are
> true values, so expressions like:
> 
>     if X or Y or Z in some_string
> 
> will always be true, if X or Y are true values.
> 
> You need to re-write your test to be one of these:
> 
>     # version 1
>     if "AND" in str1 or "OR" in str1 or "NOT" in str1:
>         print "It is a Boolean Query"
>     else:
>         print "It is not a Boolean Query"
> 
> 
>     # version 2
>     if any(word in str1 for word in ("AND", "OR", "NOT")):
>         print "It is a Boolean Query"
>     else:
>         print "It is not a Boolean Query"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Steven

Thanks Steven for taking so much of your valuable time to make me understand and nice guidance. Ian your suggestion worked well. Thank you. Regards, Subhabrata Banerjee.


From kplunt at gmail.com  Fri Apr 24 16:04:48 2015
From: kplunt at gmail.com (Kurt)
Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2015 13:04:48 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Panda data read_csv returns 'TextFileReader' object
Message-ID: <4eac5d43-4fce-4bf9-a7b2-cf68bc813e7d@googlegroups.com>

Isn't the call pd.read_csv(filepath,...) suppose to return a dataframe, not this other object? I keep getting the following error when I try to view the attribute head.

AttributeError: 'TextFileReader' object has no attribute 'head'

I reference pandas as pd and df is suppose to define itself. I had this working at one time.


From davea at davea.name  Fri Apr 24 18:51:45 2015
From: davea at davea.name (Dave Angel)
Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2015 18:51:45 -0400
Subject: Panda data read_csv returns 'TextFileReader' object
In-Reply-To: <4eac5d43-4fce-4bf9-a7b2-cf68bc813e7d@googlegroups.com>
References: <4eac5d43-4fce-4bf9-a7b2-cf68bc813e7d@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <553AC901.9040801@davea.name>

On 04/24/2015 04:04 PM, Kurt wrote:
> Isn't the call pd.read_csv(filepath,...) suppose to return a dataframe, not this other object? I keep getting the following error when I try to view the attribute head.
>
> AttributeError: 'TextFileReader' object has no attribute 'head'
>
> I reference pandas as pd and df is suppose to define itself. I had this working at one time.
>

Please supply the Python version, the pandas version, and the code you 
ran.  It can also be useful to show how/where you installed pandas, like 
the URL you used, or the apt-get, or the pip command, or whatever.

Then show the complete error traceback, not just a summary.  And if the 
error really is on the line you partially supplied above, what's the 
type and contents of filepath?  What are the other arguments' values?

The function I suspect you're trying to call is:

pandas.io.parsers.read_csv(filepath, ...)

but I can't tell from your description.

-- 
DaveA


From DLipman~NoSpam~ at Verizon.Net  Fri Apr 24 19:53:09 2015
From: DLipman~NoSpam~ at Verizon.Net (David H. Lipman)
Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2015 19:53:09 -0400
Subject: Urjent Requirements :1.Agile Coach,
 2.Technical Analyst :- Remedy 3.Technical Analyst :- Internet
 Explorer, Location:-Bloomington, IL.
In-Reply-To: <mailman.97.1429799147.31470.python-list@python.org>
References: <8309c5f2-e1e7-4609-8354-391645f0be63@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.97.1429799147.31470.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <oK6dndYG2MX1SqfInZ2dnUU7-dWdnZ2d@giganews.com>

From: "Chris Angelico" <rosuav at gmail.com>

> Please don't spam this list with job ads that have nothing whatsoever
> to do with Python. Go earn your agency fees actually doing some work,
> instead of just spamming mailing lists/newsgroups in bulk.
> 
> ChrisA

www.intsystech.com

File a complaint for spamming;  abuse at 1and1.com  and  abuse at oneandone.net


-- 
Dave
Multi-AV Scanning Tool - http://multi-av.thespykiller.co.uk
http://www.pctipp.ch/downloads/dl/35905.asp


From tjreedy at udel.edu  Fri Apr 24 20:51:04 2015
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2015 20:51:04 -0400
Subject: Boolean Operator Confusion
In-Reply-To: <fa297093-4de1-49d2-be0e-45aa2017c75a@googlegroups.com>
References: <fa297093-4de1-49d2-be0e-45aa2017c75a@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <mheodr$dr6$1@ger.gmane.org>

On 4/24/2015 10:50 AM, subhabrata.banerji at gmail.com wrote:
> Dear Group,
>
> I am trying to understand the use of Boolean operator in Python. I am trying to
> write small piece of script, as follows,
>
> def input_test():
> 	str1=raw_input("PRINT QUERY:")
> 	if "AND" or "OR" or "NOT" in str1:
> 		print "It is a Boolean Query"
> 	elif "AND" or "OR" or "NOT" not in str1:
> 		print "It is not a Boolean Query"
> 	else:
> 		print "None"

 > I am trying to achieve if the words "AND","OR","NOT" ... in string I 
want to recognize it as,
 > Boolean Query, if they are not there the string is not Boolean query.
 > As I am trying to test it I am getting following output,
 >
 >>>> input_test()
 > PRINT QUERY:obama AND clinton
 > It is a Boolean Query

 >>>> input_test()
 > PRINT QUERY:obama clinton
 > It is a Boolean Query
---

Functions that do real calculation should be written as functions that 
take an input object (or objects) and produce an output object.  You can 
then write automated tests can be run repeatedly.

Retyping the function name (multiple times) and test strings every time 
you modify and retest the function is tedious and *subject to error*. 
It is easy to write simple test functions.  Example implementing both ideas:


def is_bool_text(text):
     if "AND" or "OR" or "NOT" in text:
         return True
     elif "AND" or "OR" or "NOT" not in text:
         return False

def test_is_bool_text():
     for inp, expect in (('obama AND clinton', True),
                         ('obama clinton', False),
                        ):
         print(inp, 'PASS' if is_bool_text(inp) == expect else 'FAIL')

test_is_bool_text()

Currently, the second example is FAIL.  You can now modify the function 
and re-run the test until both examples PASS.  Then add more test cases.

Based on my experience reading newbie posts on python list and 
Stackoverflow, learning to write real functions, without input and 
print, and repeatable tests, is the most important thing many people are 
not learning from programming books and classes.

-- 
Terry Jan Reedy



From rustompmody at gmail.com  Fri Apr 24 21:14:47 2015
From: rustompmody at gmail.com (Rustom Mody)
Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2015 18:14:47 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Boolean Operator Confusion
In-Reply-To: <mailman.11.1429923078.3680.python-list@python.org>
References: <fa297093-4de1-49d2-be0e-45aa2017c75a@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.11.1429923078.3680.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <82e13552-4141-40b3-8f30-23ae7a116a95@googlegroups.com>

On Saturday, April 25, 2015 at 6:21:56 AM UTC+5:30, Terry Reedy wrote:
> Functions that do real calculation should be written as functions that 
> take an input object (or objects) and produce an output object. 

<example snipped>

> Based on my experience reading newbie posts on python list and 
> Stackoverflow, learning to write real functions, without input and 
> print, and repeatable tests, is the most important thing many people are 
> not learning from programming books and classes.

Hear Hear!  Hail Terry!!

I believe what newbies dont get is the separation of 'real calculation'
and other clerical/logistical stuff


From breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk  Fri Apr 24 21:22:12 2015
From: breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk (Mark Lawrence)
Date: Sat, 25 Apr 2015 02:22:12 +0100
Subject: Boolean Operator Confusion
In-Reply-To: <mheodr$dr6$1@ger.gmane.org>
References: <fa297093-4de1-49d2-be0e-45aa2017c75a@googlegroups.com>
 <mheodr$dr6$1@ger.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <mheq87$6aa$1@ger.gmane.org>

On 25/04/2015 01:51, Terry Reedy wrote:
>
> Based on my experience reading newbie posts on python list and
> Stackoverflow, learning to write real functions, without input and
> print, and repeatable tests, is the most important thing many people are
> not learning from programming books and classes.
>

Got to start them off somewhere so http://nedbatchelder.com/text/test0.html

-- 
My fellow Pythonistas, ask not what our language can do for you, ask
what you can do for our language.

Mark Lawrence



From tjreedy at udel.edu  Fri Apr 24 22:27:32 2015
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2015 22:27:32 -0400
Subject: Enterprise Python
Message-ID: <mheu2n$sn3$1@ger.gmane.org>

Someone, (Mark, I believe), posted this link to a podcast from a few 
weeks ago:
http://www.talkpythontome.com/episodes/show/4/enterprise-python-and-large-scale-projects

A large part of that is based on this Dec 2014 post:
https://www.paypal-engineering.com/2014/12/10/10-myths-of-enterprise-python/
which has perhaps 50 or more links.

Here is something I had not read before: "Bank of America actually has 
over 5,000 Python developers, with over 10 million lines of Python in 
one project alone.  JP Morgan underwent a similar transformation."

http://news.efinancialcareers.com/us-en/173476/investment-banking-tech-guru-quits-starts-firm/
https://www.quora.com/When-why-and-to-what-extent-did-Bank-of-America-rebuild-its-entire-tech-stack-with-Python
https://www.quora.com/Why-are-banks-like-JP-Morgan-and-Bank-of-America-Merrill-Lynch-using-Python-to-replace-historic-legacy-systems-built-in-Java-C++

-- 
Terry Jan Reedy



From no.email at nospam.invalid  Fri Apr 24 22:43:50 2015
From: no.email at nospam.invalid (Paul Rubin)
Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2015 19:43:50 -0700
Subject: Enterprise Python
References: <mailman.14.1429928877.3680.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <87mw1xkjvd.fsf@jester.gateway.sonic.net>

Terry Reedy <tjreedy at udel.edu> writes:
> Here is something I had not read before: "Bank of America actually has
> over 5,000 Python developers, with over 10 million lines of Python in
> one project alone.  JP Morgan underwent a similar transformation."

They should follow this guy: https://twitter.com/HaskellCEO


From rustompmody at gmail.com  Fri Apr 24 22:52:56 2015
From: rustompmody at gmail.com (Rustom Mody)
Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2015 19:52:56 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Enterprise Python
In-Reply-To: <mailman.14.1429928877.3680.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.14.1429928877.3680.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <e0aea903-a8f5-4542-99a9-d76b72075c7d@googlegroups.com>

On Saturday, April 25, 2015 at 7:58:55 AM UTC+5:30, Terry Reedy wrote:
> Someone, (Mark, I believe), posted this link to a podcast from a few 
> weeks ago:
> http://www.talkpythontome.com/episodes/show/4/enterprise-python-and-large-scale-projects
> 
> A large part of that is based on this Dec 2014 post:
> https://www.paypal-engineering.com/2014/12/10/10-myths-of-enterprise-python/
> which has perhaps 50 or more links.
> 
> Here is something I had not read before: "Bank of America actually has 
> over 5,000 Python developers, with over 10 million lines of Python in 
> one project alone.  JP Morgan underwent a similar transformation."
> 
> http://news.efinancialcareers.com/us-en/173476/investment-banking-tech-guru-quits-starts-firm/
> https://www.quora.com/When-why-and-to-what-extent-did-Bank-of-America-rebuild-its-entire-tech-stack-with-Python
> https://www.quora.com/Why-are-banks-like-JP-Morgan-and-Bank-of-America-Merrill-Lynch-using-Python-to-replace-historic-legacy-systems-built-in-Java-C++

I was looking to these to provide some ammo...

Reading them (the quora articles) does not come out very positive for python though.


From rustompmody at gmail.com  Sat Apr 25 01:04:09 2015
From: rustompmody at gmail.com (Rustom Mody)
Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2015 22:04:09 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Boolean Operator Confusion
In-Reply-To: <mailman.12.1429924959.3680.python-list@python.org>
References: <fa297093-4de1-49d2-be0e-45aa2017c75a@googlegroups.com>
 <mheodr$dr6$1@ger.gmane.org>
 <mailman.12.1429924959.3680.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <236f22ee-1686-4f77-ac02-64df04bf9810@googlegroups.com>

On Saturday, April 25, 2015 at 6:52:53 AM UTC+5:30, Mark Lawrence wrote:
> On 25/04/2015 01:51, Terry Reedy wrote:
> >
> > Based on my experience reading newbie posts on python list and
> > Stackoverflow, learning to write real functions, without input and
> > print, and repeatable tests, is the most important thing many people are
> > not learning from programming books and classes.
> >
> 
> Got to start them off somewhere so http://nedbatchelder.com/text/test0.html

Nice! Thanks for that!
Found some other gems from Ned which Ive stuffed into my blog -- will put it in
the relevant thread

However I dont believe that Ned and Terry are talking the same thing -- though
closely related.
Ned is talking of how to do testing
Terry is talking of how to write clean (old-fashioned word 'structured') code
and using testing as an allurement.
They are not the same because if (say!) you were a genius who wrote
bug-free code on first attempt you dont need to test; you still need to write
clean code for others to read


From rustompmody at gmail.com  Sat Apr 25 01:06:25 2015
From: rustompmody at gmail.com (Rustom Mody)
Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2015 22:06:25 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: New to Python - block grouping (spaces)
In-Reply-To: <Y3bYw.302660$ms.24839@fx30.am4>
References: <9fc57fc9-0399-4ff3-882a-d041f02827d8@googlegroups.com>
 <6580b5d5-92f5-4bfa-b1d0-889c69fe82bb@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.374.1429285961.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <mgrcb5$sn2$1@reader1.panix.com> <Y3bYw.302660$ms.24839@fx30.am4>
Message-ID: <399c2e2f-4272-4af5-b3d2-5f6737d93510@googlegroups.com>

On Friday, April 17, 2015 at 10:36:13 PM UTC+5:30, BartC wrote:
> (Actually *I* would quite like to know why languages don't have 
> switchable syntax anyway to allow for people's personal preferences.)

Some rambly ruminations on switchable (aka firstclass) syntax
http://blog.languager.org/2015/04/poverty-universality-structure-0.html


From marko at pacujo.net  Sat Apr 25 03:27:15 2015
From: marko at pacujo.net (Marko Rauhamaa)
Date: Sat, 25 Apr 2015 10:27:15 +0300
Subject: New to Python - block grouping (spaces)
References: <9fc57fc9-0399-4ff3-882a-d041f02827d8@googlegroups.com>
 <6580b5d5-92f5-4bfa-b1d0-889c69fe82bb@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.374.1429285961.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <mgrcb5$sn2$1@reader1.panix.com> <Y3bYw.302660$ms.24839@fx30.am4>
 <399c2e2f-4272-4af5-b3d2-5f6737d93510@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <87oamcr7l8.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>

Rustom Mody <rustompmody at gmail.com>:

> Some rambly ruminations on switchable (aka firstclass) syntax
> http://blog.languager.org/2015/04/poverty-universality-structure-0.html

I'll ruminate in response:

 * The awesomeness of lisp is in lambda calculus and not in macros.

 * Lisp syntax is actually not quite first-class:

   Guile:
     scheme@(guile-user)> let
     While compiling expression:
     ERROR: Syntax error:
     unknown location: let: bad let in form let

   Elisp:
     if
     Debugger entered--Lisp error: (void-variable if)
       eval(if nil)
       eval-last-sexp-1(t)
       eval-last-sexp(t)
       eval-print-last-sexp()
       call-interactively(eval-print-last-sexp nil nil)

 * Syntax is first-class in Kernel <URL:
   http://web.cs.wpi.edu/~jshutt/kernel.html>. Too bad Kernel chose a
   naming scheme (NPI) that makes it incompatible with scheme.

 * Beginning schemers are infatuated with defining new syntax (macros).
   What results is unreadable code.

 * The age-old lisp idea of application-specific languages is perfectly
   all right, though.

And most to the point:

 * Even with its syntax machinery, the lisp parser will reject Python
   and C source code.


Marko


From pauld11718 at gmail.com  Sat Apr 25 06:37:23 2015
From: pauld11718 at gmail.com (pauld11718)
Date: Sat, 25 Apr 2015 03:37:23 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Best way to do
Message-ID: <68e25c70-e6db-4426-8ed5-10caf9d6f2b4@googlegroups.com>

import CoolProp.CoolProp as CPpy
import numpy as np
import time

len = 1000
rho = np.zeros(len)
t = np.zeros(len)
eta = np.zeros(len)
x = np.zeros(len)

def PyDir(p,h,hndl):
    for i in range(1, len):
        rho[i] = hndl.PropsSI("D","P",p[i],"H",h[i],"Water")
        t[i] = hndl.PropsSI('T','P',p[i],'H',h[i],'Water')
        x[i] = hndl.PropsSI('Q','P',p[i],'H',h[i],'Water')
        eta[i] = hndl.PropsSI('V','P',p[i],'H',h[i],'Water')
    return rho,t,eta,x
    
def PyDirn(p,h,hndl):
        rho = hndl.PropsSI("D","P",p,"H",h,"Water")
        t = hndl.PropsSI('T','P',p,'H',h,'Water')
        x = hndl.PropsSI('Q','P',p,'H',h,'Water')
        eta = hndl.PropsSI('V','P',p,'H',h,'Water')
        return rho,t,eta,x

def PyDirVec(p,h,hndl):
    rho = hndl.PropsSI("D","P",p,"H",h,"Water")
    t = hndl.PropsSI('T','P',p,'H',h,'Water')
    x = hndl.PropsSI('Q','P',p,'H',h,'Water')
    eta = hndl.PropsSI('V','P',p,'H',h,'Water')
    return rho,t,eta,x

h = 1e3*np.linspace(700,1500,len)
p = 1e6*np.linspace(2.8,3,len)

t1 = time.time()
(rho,t,eta,x) = PyDir(p,h,CPpy)
t2 = time.time()
print('%e'%((t2 - t1)))

t1 = time.time()
for i in range(1,len):
    (rho[i],t[i],eta[i],x[i]) = PyDirn(p[i],h[i],CPpy)
t2 = time.time()
print('%e'%((t2 - t1)))

t1 = time.time()
(rho,t,eta,x) = PyDirVec(p,h,CPpy)
t2 = time.time()
print('%e'%((t2 - t1)))

5.214521e+00
5.149483e+00
4.670270e+00

What is the best way to do the same for best computational speed?


From __peter__ at web.de  Sat Apr 25 09:19:11 2015
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Sat, 25 Apr 2015 15:19:11 +0200
Subject: Best way to do
References: <68e25c70-e6db-4426-8ed5-10caf9d6f2b4@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <mhg48f$kei$1@ger.gmane.org>

pauld11718 wrote:

> import CoolProp.CoolProp as CPpy
> import numpy as np
> import time
> 
> len = 1000
> rho = np.zeros(len)
> t = np.zeros(len)
> eta = np.zeros(len)
> x = np.zeros(len)
> 
> def PyDir(p,h,hndl):
>     for i in range(1, len):
>         rho[i] = hndl.PropsSI("D","P",p[i],"H",h[i],"Water")
>         t[i] = hndl.PropsSI('T','P',p[i],'H',h[i],'Water')
>         x[i] = hndl.PropsSI('Q','P',p[i],'H',h[i],'Water')
>         eta[i] = hndl.PropsSI('V','P',p[i],'H',h[i],'Water')
>     return rho,t,eta,x
>     
> def PyDirn(p,h,hndl):
>         rho = hndl.PropsSI("D","P",p,"H",h,"Water")
>         t = hndl.PropsSI('T','P',p,'H',h,'Water')
>         x = hndl.PropsSI('Q','P',p,'H',h,'Water')
>         eta = hndl.PropsSI('V','P',p,'H',h,'Water')
>         return rho,t,eta,x
> 
> def PyDirVec(p,h,hndl):
>     rho = hndl.PropsSI("D","P",p,"H",h,"Water")
>     t = hndl.PropsSI('T','P',p,'H',h,'Water')
>     x = hndl.PropsSI('Q','P',p,'H',h,'Water')
>     eta = hndl.PropsSI('V','P',p,'H',h,'Water')
>     return rho,t,eta,x
> 
> h = 1e3*np.linspace(700,1500,len)
> p = 1e6*np.linspace(2.8,3,len)
> 
> t1 = time.time()
> (rho,t,eta,x) = PyDir(p,h,CPpy)
> t2 = time.time()
> print('%e'%((t2 - t1)))
> 
> t1 = time.time()
> for i in range(1,len):
>     (rho[i],t[i],eta[i],x[i]) = PyDirn(p[i],h[i],CPpy)
> t2 = time.time()
> print('%e'%((t2 - t1)))
> 
> t1 = time.time()
> (rho,t,eta,x) = PyDirVec(p,h,CPpy)
> t2 = time.time()
> print('%e'%((t2 - t1)))
> 
> 5.214521e+00
> 5.149483e+00
> 4.670270e+00
> 
> What is the best way to do the same for best computational speed?

As your timings suggest the way you pass numpy arrays directly in PyDirVec() 
is certainly the most idiomatic and also the fastest approach for a library 
that supports numpy.

If that's not fast enough you probably need to look into the library itself 
(which seems to be written in C++ according to the link 
<http://www.coolprop.org/index.html> you didn't provide).

[Disclaimer: I haven't used CoolProp and know nothing about it]



From mal at europython.eu  Sat Apr 25 10:41:40 2015
From: mal at europython.eu (M.-A. Lemburg)
Date: Sat, 25 Apr 2015 16:41:40 +0200
Subject: EuroPython 2015: Our next keynote: Ola & Ola (Django Girls)
Message-ID: <553BA7A4.5020906@europython.eu>

We are pleased to announce our next keynote speakers: Ola Sitarska and
Ola Sendecka, who kicked off Django Girls with a workshop at
EuroPython 2014 last year. Since then the idea has spread around the
globe to over 20 countries.

http://blog.europython.eu/post/117337312602/our-next-keynote-ola-ola-django-girls

Django Girls
------------

Django Girls is an non-profit oriented organization that empowers and
helps women to organize free, one-day programming workshops by
providing tools, resources and support.

http://djangogirls.org/

The Keynote
-----------

It?s Dangerous To Go Alone, Take This: The Power of a Community

Ola and Ola will take you on a fantastic journey to the magical world
of little Liz, who is totally enchanted by technology. The story of
Liz will show that with a little bit of magic, curiosity, courage and
hard work, you can defeat all the obstacles standing in your
way. You?ll discover with her that making big and scary things is
easier when you?re not doing them alone. Because sometimes, one
magical spell, the helpful hand of a friend or this shiny sparkle is
all it takes to make a dent in one?s universe.

The Workshop
------------

At this year?s conference, we will again be hosting a Django Girls
workshop. Please see the workshop website for details on how to sign
up as an attendee, coach, or support the workshop as sponsor.

http://blog.europython.eu/post/116653922717/europython-2015-django-girls-workshop

PS: Ola & Ola had already confirmed back in February. Thanks to them
for their support in keeping this secret for such a long time :-)

Enjoy,
--
EuroPython 2015 Team
http://ep2015.europython.eu/
http://www.europython-society.org/


From tavares at fe.up.pt  Sat Apr 25 10:43:26 2015
From: tavares at fe.up.pt (tavares at fe.up.pt)
Date: Sat, 25 Apr 2015 07:43:26 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: V ECCOMAS Thematic Conference VipIMAGE 2015: SUBMISSION DEADLINE
 POSTPONED
Message-ID: <d98fa607-52e1-4965-94e0-e7364bfa21fd@googlegroups.com>

Dear Colleague,

Attending several requests, the organizing committee of the International Conference VipIMAGE 2015 - V ECCOMAS THEMATIC CONFERENCE ON COMPUTATIONAL VISION AND MEDICAL IMAGE PROCESSING (www.fe.up.pt/vipimage) to be held in October 19-21, 2015, in H10 Costa Adeje Palace, Tenerife, Spain, has extended the submission period to May 15th.
Once again, we would like to invite you to participate and share your expertise in VipIMAGE 2015.


Invited Lecturers

- Alexandre Xavier Falc?o, Universidade de Campinas, Brazil
- Cristian A. Linte, Mayo Clinic, USA
- Fiorella Sgallari, University of Bologna, Italy
- Yongjie Zhang, Carnegie Mellon University, USA
- Xiaochuan Pan, The University of Chicago, USA
- Xue-cheng Tai, University of Bergen, Norway


Publications

- Proceedings: The proceedings book will be published by Taylor & Francis Group (www.balkema.nl) and indexed by Thomson Reuters Conference Proceedings Citation Index, IET Inspect and Elsevier Scopus.
- Springer Book: A book with 20 invited works from the ones presented in the conference will be published by Springer under the book series "Lecture Notes in Computational Vision and Biomechanics" (www.springer.com/series/8910) indexed by Elsevier Scopus.
- Journal Publication: A dedicated special issue of the Taylor & Francis international journal "Computer Methods in Biomechanics and Biomedical Engineering: Imaging & Visualization" (www.tandfonline.com/tciv) will be published with extended versions of the best works presented in the conference.


Important dates

- Deadline for Extended Abstracts (2-4 pages): May 15, 2015
- Authors Notification: May 31, 2015
- Deadline for Papers: July 20, 2015


We are looking forward to see you in Tenerife next October,
Jo?o Manuel R. S. Tavares
Renato Natal Jorge
(VipIMAGE 2015 co-chairs)


For further details, please, have a look in the conference website at: www.fe.up.pt/vipimage, the Facebook page at: www.facebook.com/pages/Vipimage/237980719665456, or join the LinkedIn group at: http://www.linkedin.com/groups?gid=4752820&trk=hb_side_g.


From albert at spenarnc.xs4all.nl  Sat Apr 25 10:49:07 2015
From: albert at spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst)
Date: 25 Apr 2015 14:49:07 GMT
Subject: Best search algorithm to find condition within a range
References: <2e3a3c01-20b3-4948-9b32-bd80ed46822b@googlegroups.com>
 <fd544688-5e9c-418e-9ca9-11b9bcb83186@googlegroups.com>
 <55329d82$0$21225$e4fe514c@dreader37.news.xs4all.nl>
 <5533a77d$0$12993$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <553ba963$0$23274$e4fe514c@dreader34.news.xs4all.nl>

In article <5533a77d$0$12993$c3e8da3$5496439d at news.astraweb.com>,
Steven D'Aprano  <steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info> wrote:
>On Sun, 19 Apr 2015 04:08 am, Albert van der Horst wrote:
>
>> Fire up a lowlevel interpreter like Forth. (e.g. gforth)
>
>Yay! I'm not the only one who uses or likes Forth!

I'm an author of half a dozen implementations, brand is called
ciforth. Just last Thursday an elaborate test session in Apple.
Expect release 5.2 for Linux Windows and Apple in a few weeks.

I've also published a minimalistic system called yourforth.

>
>Have you tried Factor? I'm wondering if it is worth looking at, as a more
>modern and less low-level version of Forth.

Chuck Moore has build a 100+ processor chip. I've experimented with
a parallel sieve for primes on the chip. Later Leon Konings and I have
run the same program on a simulator for the greenarray's chip
with 144 processors. Leon has written the simulator in Factor, it is
called Arrayforth. So I've seen some Factor from close up.
I think the system is practical and reliable. The runtime environment
however is a bit unwieldy. Leon is enthusiastic (but he always is)
about the documentation and general working. Factor has a lot of
protection,

It is nothing like ciforth however, most faulty ciforth programs end
in "segmentation fault". For 60K (+ 300K library) ciforth buys you an
interpreter, a scripter and a compiler. Unlike most Forth's you can do
    lina -c hello.frt
and then ship the hello program. ( And yes, hello.frt is a one liner
with just one definition, no boilerplate.)
I've solved hundreds of Euler project problems with it, but if
you need really abstract things (like representing "situations"
and counting them using a dict) I generally use Python.

ciforth arrayforth and yourforth are googleable.

>--
>Steven
>

Groetjes Albert
-- 
Albert van der Horst, UTRECHT,THE NETHERLANDS
Economic growth -- being exponential -- ultimately falters.
albert at spe&ar&c.xs4all.nl &=n http://home.hccnet.nl/a.w.m.van.der.horst



From larry.martell at gmail.com  Sat Apr 25 11:10:05 2015
From: larry.martell at gmail.com (Larry Martell)
Date: Sat, 25 Apr 2015 11:10:05 -0400
Subject: Enterprise Python
In-Reply-To: <mheu2n$sn3$1@ger.gmane.org>
References: <mheu2n$sn3$1@ger.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <CACwCsY5Y6_nGvdvZGo91WzDsFjbErnRqtqfT0e0Qi0nM7B9Q_Q@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Apr 24, 2015 at 10:27 PM, Terry Reedy <tjreedy at udel.edu> wrote:
> Someone, (Mark, I believe), posted this link to a podcast from a few weeks
> ago:
> http://www.talkpythontome.com/episodes/show/4/enterprise-python-and-large-scale-projects
>
> A large part of that is based on this Dec 2014 post:
> https://www.paypal-engineering.com/2014/12/10/10-myths-of-enterprise-python/
> which has perhaps 50 or more links.
>
> Here is something I had not read before: "Bank of America actually has over
> 5,000 Python developers, with over 10 million lines of Python in one project
> alone.  JP Morgan underwent a similar transformation."

I get calls from recruiters almost every day for python jobs at BofA
in Charlotte, NC.


From rustompmody at gmail.com  Sat Apr 25 12:52:47 2015
From: rustompmody at gmail.com (Rustom Mody)
Date: Sat, 25 Apr 2015 09:52:47 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: New to Python - block grouping (spaces)
In-Reply-To: <87oamcr7l8.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
References: <9fc57fc9-0399-4ff3-882a-d041f02827d8@googlegroups.com>
 <6580b5d5-92f5-4bfa-b1d0-889c69fe82bb@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.374.1429285961.12925.python-list@python.org>
 <mgrcb5$sn2$1@reader1.panix.com> <Y3bYw.302660$ms.24839@fx30.am4>
 <399c2e2f-4272-4af5-b3d2-5f6737d93510@googlegroups.com>
 <87oamcr7l8.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
Message-ID: <6cf4a1dc-257d-4ebe-826c-71c3008c4217@googlegroups.com>

On Saturday, April 25, 2015 at 12:57:34 PM UTC+5:30, Marko Rauhamaa wrote:
> Rustom Mody :
> > Some rambly ruminations on switchable (aka firstclass) syntax
> > http://blog.languager.org/2015/04/poverty-universality-structure-0.html
> 
> I'll ruminate in response:

Thanks for a connoisseur review

First time hearing of kernel.
Following some link from there came to this Hudak-news:
http://www.caringbridge.org/visit/hudak/journal/view/id/5538f5cea589b4216c04438a

[Hudak is a scheme-doyen - Yale-scheme: T dialect - and later Haskell]

Enough OT now that I should stop


From albert at spenarnc.xs4all.nl  Sat Apr 25 13:42:44 2015
From: albert at spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst)
Date: 25 Apr 2015 17:42:44 GMT
Subject: New to Python - block grouping (spaces)
References: <9fc57fc9-0399-4ff3-882a-d041f02827d8@googlegroups.com>
 <a745d401-190d-4e7b-bc90-85f7e2cd6504@googlegroups.com>
 <5534d52d$0$2915$c3e8da3$76491128@news.astraweb.com>
 <d7f4c401-253a-4826-b018-7e84abb0838c@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <553bd214$0$23196$e4fe514c@dreader34.news.xs4all.nl>

In article <d7f4c401-253a-4826-b018-7e84abb0838c at googlegroups.com>,
Rustom Mody  <rustompmody at gmail.com> wrote:
>On Monday, April 20, 2015 at 4:00:16 PM UTC+5:30, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
>> On Monday 20 April 2015 12:43, Rustom Mody wrote:
>>
>> > You've a 10-file python project in which you want to replace function 'f'
>> > by function 'longname'
>> > How easy is it?
>>
>> About a thousand times easier than the corresponding situation:
>>
>> You have ten PDF files in which you want to replace the word "f" with the
>> word "longname".
>>
>
>To paraphrase Pauli's "This is not even wrong"
>this is not even a strawman

On the contrary it is the last word in this discussion.
At least the last word I need or will read.

Groetjes Albert
-- 
Albert van der Horst, UTRECHT,THE NETHERLANDS
Economic growth -- being exponential -- ultimately falters.
albert at spe&ar&c.xs4all.nl &=n http://home.hccnet.nl/a.w.m.van.der.horst



From richmolj at gmail.com  Sat Apr 25 13:48:23 2015
From: richmolj at gmail.com (richmolj at gmail.com)
Date: Sat, 25 Apr 2015 10:48:23 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Library import succeeds with nose, fails elsewhere
Message-ID: <cd680312-ab2e-4303-aa20-7aa521a2f5fe@googlegroups.com>

Apologies, I'm a rubyist and this is a beginner question but I'm not finding a great answer with lots of googling. I am writing a library, organized something like this:

awesome_lib/awesome.py
awesome_lib/util/__init__.py
awesome_lib/util/helper.py

In the top of awesome.py:

foo = 'bar'
import helper

In the top of helper.py:

import awesome
print awesome.foo

IRL, I'm doing this for things like referring to the main logger from within the utility method.

This works great when running tests through nose. In a test file I 'import awesome', refer to awesome.helper and everything is fine.

If I try to put this library into a project, however, the import fails:

~/foo.py
~/awesome_lib

'python foo.py' (only code is 'from awesome_lib import awesome')
 ImportError: No module named awesome

The error occurs when importing the helper and it tries to 'import awesome' and fails.

I'm sure I am doing something stupid, can someone point me in the right direction?


From alister.nospam.ware at ntlworld.com  Sat Apr 25 15:38:25 2015
From: alister.nospam.ware at ntlworld.com (alister)
Date: Sat, 25 Apr 2015 19:38:25 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Library import succeeds with nose, fails elsewhere
References: <cd680312-ab2e-4303-aa20-7aa521a2f5fe@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <mhgqfh$2t8$1@speranza.aioe.org>

On Sat, 25 Apr 2015 10:48:23 -0700, richmolj wrote:

> Apologies, I'm a rubyist and this is a beginner question but I'm not
> finding a great answer with lots of googling. I am writing a library,
> organized something like this:
> 
> awesome_lib/awesome.py awesome_lib/util/__init__.py
> awesome_lib/util/helper.py
> 
> In the top of awesome.py:
> 
> foo = 'bar'
> import helper
> 
> In the top of helper.py:
> 
> import awesome print awesome.foo
> 
> IRL, I'm doing this for things like referring to the main logger from
> within the utility method.
> 
> This works great when running tests through nose. In a test file I
> 'import awesome', refer to awesome.helper and everything is fine.
> 
> If I try to put this library into a project, however, the import fails:
> 
> ~/foo.py ~/awesome_lib
> 
> 'python foo.py' (only code is 'from awesome_lib import awesome')
>  ImportError: No module named awesome
> 
> The error occurs when importing the helper and it tries to 'import
> awesome' and fails.
> 
> I'm sure I am doing something stupid, can someone point me in the right
> direction?

you seem to have a recursive import going on
Awesome imports helper, helper imports awesome this is always a cauise of 
problems & is usually a code smell.

if these two modules are that heavily interlinked then you probably want 
all the code in one single module.




-- 
All syllogisms have three parts, therefore this is not a syllogism.


From alister.nospam.ware at ntlworld.com  Sat Apr 25 15:38:55 2015
From: alister.nospam.ware at ntlworld.com (alister)
Date: Sat, 25 Apr 2015 19:38:55 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Library import succeeds with nose, fails elsewhere
References: <cd680312-ab2e-4303-aa20-7aa521a2f5fe@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <mhgqgf$2tc$1@speranza.aioe.org>

On Sat, 25 Apr 2015 10:48:23 -0700, richmolj wrote:

> Apologies, I'm a rubyist and this is a beginner question but I'm not
> finding a great answer with lots of googling. I am writing a library,
> organized something like this:
> 
> awesome_lib/awesome.py awesome_lib/util/__init__.py
> awesome_lib/util/helper.py
> 
> In the top of awesome.py:
> 
> foo = 'bar'
> import helper
> 
> In the top of helper.py:
> 
> import awesome print awesome.foo
> 
> IRL, I'm doing this for things like referring to the main logger from
> within the utility method.
> 
> This works great when running tests through nose. In a test file I
> 'import awesome', refer to awesome.helper and everything is fine.
> 
> If I try to put this library into a project, however, the import fails:
> 
> ~/foo.py ~/awesome_lib
> 
> 'python foo.py' (only code is 'from awesome_lib import awesome')
>  ImportError: No module named awesome
> 
> The error occurs when importing the helper and it tries to 'import
> awesome' and fails.
> 
> I'm sure I am doing something stupid, can someone point me in the right
> direction?

you seem to have a recursive import going on
Awesome imports helper, helper imports awesome this is always a cauise of 
problems & is usually a code smell.

if these two modules are that heavily interlinked then you probably want 
all the code in one single module.




-- 
All syllogisms have three parts, therefore this is not a syllogism.


From marfig at gmail.com  Sat Apr 25 18:33:10 2015
From: marfig at gmail.com (Mario Figueiredo)
Date: Sat, 25 Apr 2015 23:33:10 +0100
Subject: [Matplotlib] Ploting an exponential distribution frequency curve
Message-ID: <bi4ojap79mlcjq05skiar1ftrfh42j3efh@4ax.com>

I'm trying to plot the curve of an exponential distribution without
much success. I'm missing something very basic I feel, but just can't
figure it out after numerous tries, so I'm turning out to you.

This is the function generating the frequency of individual outcomes:

    import decimal
    from random import expovariate
    from collections import defaultdict

    decimal.getcontext().prec = 4
    Dec = decimal.Decimal

    samples = 100000   # 100,000

    def generate(lambd):
        res = defaultdict(int)
        for _ in range(samples):
            res[Dec(expovariate(lambd)).quantize(Dec('0.01'))] += 1
        return res

Trying to plot this data into a frequency curve is proving too
challenging and I just can't understand why.

    plot(list(results.keys()), list(results.values()))

This results in strange line graph where there is the outline of an
exponential curve but the line crisscrosses all over the place. I
can't understand why I am getting this graph result and not just the
smooth line I can infer from looking at the hard data.


From marfig at gmail.com  Sat Apr 25 18:36:03 2015
From: marfig at gmail.com (Mario Figueiredo)
Date: Sat, 25 Apr 2015 23:36:03 +0100
Subject: [Matplotlib] Ploting an exponential distribution frequency curve
References: <bi4ojap79mlcjq05skiar1ftrfh42j3efh@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <sj5ojalp0ilnnip6914dp52ok44pj848ql@4ax.com>

On Sat, 25 Apr 2015 23:33:10 +0100, Mario Figueiredo
<marfig at gmail.com> wrote:

>
>Trying to plot this data into a frequency curve is proving too
>challenging and I just can't understand why.
>
>    plot(list(results.keys()), list(results.values()))
>

The above should read:

    results = generate(1)
    plot(list(results.keys()), list(results.values()))


From rosuav at gmail.com  Sat Apr 25 18:46:16 2015
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Sun, 26 Apr 2015 08:46:16 +1000
Subject: Library import succeeds with nose, fails elsewhere
In-Reply-To: <cd680312-ab2e-4303-aa20-7aa521a2f5fe@googlegroups.com>
References: <cd680312-ab2e-4303-aa20-7aa521a2f5fe@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmoW_nLDhpk54_S9-HCmeAXtzYMzJ0oRi7VZBSYbL_YBrQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, Apr 26, 2015 at 3:48 AM,  <richmolj at gmail.com> wrote:
> Apologies, I'm a rubyist and this is a beginner question but I'm not finding a great answer with lots of googling. I am writing a library, organized something like this:
>
> awesome_lib/awesome.py
> awesome_lib/util/__init__.py
> awesome_lib/util/helper.py
>
> In the top of awesome.py:
>
> foo = 'bar'
> import helper
>
> In the top of helper.py:
>
> import awesome
> print awesome.foo
>
> IRL, I'm doing this for things like referring to the main logger from within the utility method.

I've lost track of the util directory here; you don't seem to be
mentioning it in your import anywhere. But I can recreate most of your
setup as a simple package:

$ grep -r $ .
./foo.py:import awesome
./foo.py:print("OKAY")
./awesome/helper.py:from . import foo
./awesome/helper.py:print("My foo is %s" % foo)
./awesome/__init__.py:foo = 'bar'
./awesome/__init__.py:from . import helper

$ python2 foo.py
My foo is bar
OKAY

$ python3 foo.py
My foo is bar
OKAY

(I've tweaked your import and print syntax to make it Py3 compatible,
since it costs so little.)

The setup I'm using here is a straight-forward package. The first
thing imported will always be __init__.py, and modules within the
package (eg helper) can import from the package without problems,
because it'll always be loaded. It's still a circular dependency, but
it's a fairly clear and simple one.

Note that I'm being explicit about the intra-package imports here.
This is partly for Python 3 compatibility, but it's also for clarity;
"from . import foo" cannot accidentally import from a shadowing
module, but will only ever import a name from the package itself (it
might be another module, "foo.py", or it might be a name assigned
inside __init__.py, but it'll be from this package). When there's a
problem with imports somewhere, cutting down possible shadowing is a
great help with the debugging.

ChrisA


From denismfmcmahon at gmail.com  Sat Apr 25 19:12:19 2015
From: denismfmcmahon at gmail.com (Denis McMahon)
Date: Sat, 25 Apr 2015 23:12:19 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [Matplotlib] Ploting an exponential distribution frequency curve
References: <bi4ojap79mlcjq05skiar1ftrfh42j3efh@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <mhh70j$e4v$1@dont-email.me>

On Sat, 25 Apr 2015 23:33:10 +0100, Mario Figueiredo wrote:

>     plot(list(results.keys()), list(results.values()))

matplotlib supports at least (from searching the website) 5 plot methods.

Which one are you using?

My first guess would be that the data format that plot expects isn't the 
format it's getting, as you appear to be passing a list of x values and a 
list of y values, is it possible that it expects a list of value pairs?

Sorry, but given a choice of 5 plot methods in matplotlib and no hint as 
to which one you're calling, I'm not inclined to go and look at the 
arguments of all of them.

One suggestion I would make, though:

try plot([0,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10],[0,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10])

and see if you get a straight line running through the co-ord pairs:

0,0; 1,1; 2,2; 3,3; 4,4; 5,5; 6,6; 7,7; 8,8; 9,9 and 10,10

If not, then try:

plot(zip([0,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10],[0,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10]))

And see what that produces.

If the second plot produces the line I described, try:

plot(zip(list(results.keys()), list(results.values())))

in your code.

-- 
Denis McMahon, denismfmcmahon at gmail.com


From marfig at gmail.com  Sat Apr 25 19:15:44 2015
From: marfig at gmail.com (Mario Figueiredo)
Date: Sun, 26 Apr 2015 00:15:44 +0100
Subject: [Matplotlib] Ploting an exponential distribution frequency curve
References: <bi4ojap79mlcjq05skiar1ftrfh42j3efh@4ax.com>
 <sj5ojalp0ilnnip6914dp52ok44pj848ql@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <4m7oja1sgl70l3vfiftb3r8kl74kcdf7b4@4ax.com>

Ok. Ermm, it seems I needed to ask to finally have an epiphany. The
problem is that defaultdict is unordered. Once I get the data ordered,
I can finally plot the curve. Although this presents another
problem...

import decimal
from random import expovariate
from collections import defaultdict

decimal.getcontext().prec = 4
Dec = decimal.Decimal

samples = 100000   # 100,000

def generate(lambd):
    res = defaultdict(int)
    for _ in range(samples):
        res[Dec(expovariate(lambd)).quantize(Dec('0.01'))] += 1
    return sorted(res.items())

results = generate(1)
x, y = zip(*results)
plot(x, y)

This works as intended. But plots a jagged curve due to the small
discrepancies normal of a random number generation.

Other than replacing the random module with the probability density
function for the exponential distribution, do you have a suggestion of
how I could smooth the curve?


From marfig at gmail.com  Sat Apr 25 19:35:14 2015
From: marfig at gmail.com (Mario Figueiredo)
Date: Sun, 26 Apr 2015 00:35:14 +0100
Subject: [Matplotlib] Ploting an exponential distribution frequency curve
References: <bi4ojap79mlcjq05skiar1ftrfh42j3efh@4ax.com>
 <mhh70j$e4v$1@dont-email.me>
Message-ID: <1l8ojat2f8ajclvbfh738l4k2rqn37igbl@4ax.com>

On Sat, 25 Apr 2015 23:12:19 +0000 (UTC), Denis McMahon
<denismfmcmahon at gmail.com> wrote:

>Sorry, but given a choice of 5 plot methods in matplotlib and no hint as 
>to which one you're calling, I'm not inclined to go and look at the 
>arguments of all of them.

There's actually around 8 I think. The individual graphs types are
defined by the matplotlib.pyplot class. The plot() method you see in
my code draws a line graph, the bar() method a bar graph, hist() an
histogram, and so forth.

That was my fault. I should have mentioned I was using ipython
notebook with pylab inline option, or change the code to show the
import mechanism for the plot() function.


From richmolj at gmail.com  Sat Apr 25 19:36:39 2015
From: richmolj at gmail.com (richmolj at gmail.com)
Date: Sat, 25 Apr 2015 16:36:39 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Library import succeeds with nose, fails elsewhere
In-Reply-To: <mailman.19.1430001979.3680.python-list@python.org>
References: <cd680312-ab2e-4303-aa20-7aa521a2f5fe@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.19.1430001979.3680.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <a890820d-e5cf-438d-ae54-4442a6eb4e70@googlegroups.com>

Thanks, I appreciate the help. I did figure this out.

Chris - apologies for the error in my example, it should have been 'import util' within awesome.py. IOW, I was looking for awesome.util.helper to be available, and I also wanted awesome.foo available within helper.py.

The solution ended up being editing the top-level __init__.py:

import awesome

and then *when in a subdirectory*:

import awesome_lib as awesome

and *when in a different top-level file*:

import awesome.

IOW (from what I can tell) I made importing the package the same as importing this one file. When in a subdirectory import via the package, when in a sibling file import the file directly.

This certainly feels odd, and I did find some (likely preferred) different ways I could handle it. My intent was that now I can refer to awesome.util.helper regardless of where I am (outside the package, within different directories, etc). My guess is that doing things like importing 'helper' directly and referring to it as 'helper' (no awesome.util prefix) is the python way of doing things, just didn't ring true with my background.


From rosuav at gmail.com  Sat Apr 25 19:53:07 2015
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Sun, 26 Apr 2015 09:53:07 +1000
Subject: Library import succeeds with nose, fails elsewhere
In-Reply-To: <a890820d-e5cf-438d-ae54-4442a6eb4e70@googlegroups.com>
References: <cd680312-ab2e-4303-aa20-7aa521a2f5fe@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.19.1430001979.3680.python-list@python.org>
 <a890820d-e5cf-438d-ae54-4442a6eb4e70@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmqvusMXH8Nqgtpg4CfJ21pFXB8Qp4jvR+SVp4FDRztsRw@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, Apr 26, 2015 at 9:36 AM,  <richmolj at gmail.com> wrote:
> The solution ended up being editing the top-level __init__.py:
>
> import awesome
>
> and then *when in a subdirectory*:
>
> import awesome_lib as awesome
>
> and *when in a different top-level file*:
>
> import awesome.
>
> IOW (from what I can tell) I made importing the package the same as importing this one file. When in a subdirectory import via the package, when in a sibling file import the file directly.
>
> This certainly feels odd, and I did find some (likely preferred) different ways I could handle it. My intent was that now I can refer to awesome.util.helper regardless of where I am (outside the package, within different directories, etc). My guess is that doing things like importing 'helper' directly and referring to it as 'helper' (no awesome.util prefix) is the python way of doing things, just didn't ring true with my background.
>

Give "from . import helper" a try; you may find that it works just as
well as "import helper" does, but more explicitly saying that you want
it from the current package. Other than that, I think you have
something that'll work fine.

ChrisA


From breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk  Sat Apr 25 20:31:16 2015
From: breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk (Mark Lawrence)
Date: Sun, 26 Apr 2015 01:31:16 +0100
Subject: [Matplotlib] Ploting an exponential distribution frequency curve
In-Reply-To: <bi4ojap79mlcjq05skiar1ftrfh42j3efh@4ax.com>
References: <bi4ojap79mlcjq05skiar1ftrfh42j3efh@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <mhhbkp$u2d$1@ger.gmane.org>

On 25/04/2015 23:33, Mario Figueiredo wrote:
> I'm trying to plot the curve of an exponential distribution without
> much success. I'm missing something very basic I feel, but just can't
> figure it out after numerous tries, so I'm turning out to you.
>
> This is the function generating the frequency of individual outcomes:
>
>      import decimal
>      from random import expovariate
>      from collections import defaultdict
>
>      decimal.getcontext().prec = 4
>      Dec = decimal.Decimal
>
>      samples = 100000   # 100,000
>
>      def generate(lambd):
>          res = defaultdict(int)
>          for _ in range(samples):
>              res[Dec(expovariate(lambd)).quantize(Dec('0.01'))] += 1
>          return res
>
> Trying to plot this data into a frequency curve is proving too
> challenging and I just can't understand why.
>
>      plot(list(results.keys()), list(results.values()))
>
> This results in strange line graph where there is the outline of an
> exponential curve but the line crisscrosses all over the place. I
> can't understand why I am getting this graph result and not just the
> smooth line I can infer from looking at the hard data.
>

Anything that can hep you here 
http://matplotlib.org/gallery.html#statistics ?

-- 
My fellow Pythonistas, ask not what our language can do for you, ask
what you can do for our language.

Mark Lawrence



From pengyu.ut at gmail.com  Sat Apr 25 20:50:29 2015
From: pengyu.ut at gmail.com (Peng Yu)
Date: Sat, 25 Apr 2015 19:50:29 -0500
Subject: How to install dtrx with pip?
Message-ID: <CABrM6wn=Zt+Gr4oJgK1ZRSgcxm8wgnaehGGTMQKpUS0KKWA+gw@mail.gmail.com>

Hi,

I get the following error when I try to install pip. Does anybody know
what it is wrong and how to fix it? Thanks.

~/Downloads$ pip install dtrx
Downloading/unpacking dtrx
  Could not find any downloads that satisfy the requirement dtrx
  Some externally hosted files were ignored (use --allow-external dtrx
to allow).
Cleaning up...
No distributions at all found for dtrx
Storing debug log for failure in /Users/py/.pip/pip.log
~/Downloads$ pip install --allow-external dtrx
You must give at least one requirement to install (see "pip help install")

-- 
Regards,
Peng


From breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk  Sat Apr 25 21:35:48 2015
From: breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk (Mark Lawrence)
Date: Sun, 26 Apr 2015 02:35:48 +0100
Subject: How to install dtrx with pip?
In-Reply-To: <CABrM6wn=Zt+Gr4oJgK1ZRSgcxm8wgnaehGGTMQKpUS0KKWA+gw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CABrM6wn=Zt+Gr4oJgK1ZRSgcxm8wgnaehGGTMQKpUS0KKWA+gw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <mhhfdp$gds$1@ger.gmane.org>

On 26/04/2015 01:50, Peng Yu wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I get the following error when I try to install pip. Does anybody know
> what it is wrong and how to fix it? Thanks.
>
> ~/Downloads$ pip install dtrx
> Downloading/unpacking dtrx
>    Could not find any downloads that satisfy the requirement dtrx
>    Some externally hosted files were ignored (use --allow-external dtrx
> to allow).
> Cleaning up...
> No distributions at all found for dtrx
> Storing debug log for failure in /Users/py/.pip/pip.log
> ~/Downloads$ pip install --allow-external dtrx
> You must give at least one requirement to install (see "pip help install")
>

It looks to me as if you've already installed pip and are trying to 
install dtrx :)  Version 7.1 is located here 
http://brettcsmith.org/2007/dtrx/  I think you've got to specify the 
--allow-external flag to pip.  Perhaps you could confirm this from 
reading the log output?  Failing that simply download the file, extract 
everything and run python setup.py install

-- 
My fellow Pythonistas, ask not what our language can do for you, ask
what you can do for our language.

Mark Lawrence



From rosuav at gmail.com  Sat Apr 25 23:24:26 2015
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Sun, 26 Apr 2015 13:24:26 +1000
Subject: How to install dtrx with pip?
In-Reply-To: <CABrM6wn=Zt+Gr4oJgK1ZRSgcxm8wgnaehGGTMQKpUS0KKWA+gw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CABrM6wn=Zt+Gr4oJgK1ZRSgcxm8wgnaehGGTMQKpUS0KKWA+gw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmpds+PBUUFpxjjTdyJJN13ntWJb7X40NE-jNOkRECi8Gg@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, Apr 26, 2015 at 10:50 AM, Peng Yu <pengyu.ut at gmail.com> wrote:
> I get the following error when I try to install pip. Does anybody know
> what it is wrong and how to fix it? Thanks.
>
> ~/Downloads$ pip install dtrx
> Downloading/unpacking dtrx
>   Could not find any downloads that satisfy the requirement dtrx
>   Some externally hosted files were ignored (use --allow-external dtrx
> to allow).
> Cleaning up...
> No distributions at all found for dtrx
> Storing debug log for failure in /Users/py/.pip/pip.log
> ~/Downloads$ pip install --allow-external dtrx
> You must give at least one requirement to install (see "pip help install")

This is a nasty peculiarity of pip's command-line arguments, which is
(I think) improved in newer versions of pip. The --allow-external
option stipulates that the one next package may be installed
externally, and that package might be a dependency of the one you're
actually asking for. For what you want to do, try this:

$ pip install --allow-external dtrx dtrx

which means "Pip, go and install (possibly getting an external package
for dtrx) dtrx. Thanks."

ChrisA


From p_s_d_a_s_i_l_v_a_ns at netcabo.pt  Sun Apr 26 00:09:14 2015
From: p_s_d_a_s_i_l_v_a_ns at netcabo.pt (Paulo da Silva)
Date: Sun, 26 Apr 2015 05:09:14 +0100
Subject: pypy3 kubuntu 14.04
Message-ID: <mhhoda$3tf$1@speranza.aioe.org>

Is there anybody using pypy3 in *ubuntu 14.04?

I installed ppa:pypy/ppa but I still cannot see any pypy3!
All refs to pypy (using aptitude) show in the comments python 2.7!

Thanks for any help.


From john_ladasky at sbcglobal.net  Sun Apr 26 01:08:09 2015
From: john_ladasky at sbcglobal.net (John Ladasky)
Date: Sat, 25 Apr 2015 22:08:09 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Matplotlib] Ploting an exponential distribution frequency curve
In-Reply-To: <4m7oja1sgl70l3vfiftb3r8kl74kcdf7b4@4ax.com>
References: <bi4ojap79mlcjq05skiar1ftrfh42j3efh@4ax.com>
 <sj5ojalp0ilnnip6914dp52ok44pj848ql@4ax.com>
 <4m7oja1sgl70l3vfiftb3r8kl74kcdf7b4@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <5b6e36b5-e58c-474b-b619-2bbabbc6c33a@googlegroups.com>

On Saturday, April 25, 2015 at 4:16:04 PM UTC-7, Mario Figueiredo wrote:
[snip]
> This works as intended. But plots a jagged curve due to the small
> discrepancies normal of a random number generation.
> 
> Other than replacing the random module with the probability density
> function for the exponential distribution, do you have a suggestion of
> how I could smooth the curve?

Since you have a finite data set which only approximates the exponential distribution, a visual representation which connects the dots with line segments will definitely emphasize the noise in your data.

Matplotlib.pyplot has another useful function, scatter().  Scatter does not draw lines between adjacent values.  Start there.  See how your eye likes that.

If you really want to show a curve, and you do not want to calculate the limiting (infinite data samples) exponential variate on which your sample would eventually converge, you could construct moving averages using a sliding-window sample of the points (ordered by x value, of course) and then connect those averages.



From DaveFarrance at OMiTTHiSyahooANDTHiS.co.uk  Sun Apr 26 06:17:07 2015
From: DaveFarrance at OMiTTHiSyahooANDTHiS.co.uk (Dave Farrance)
Date: Sun, 26 Apr 2015 11:17:07 +0100
Subject: [Matplotlib] Ploting an exponential distribution frequency curve
References: <bi4ojap79mlcjq05skiar1ftrfh42j3efh@4ax.com>
 <sj5ojalp0ilnnip6914dp52ok44pj848ql@4ax.com>
 <4m7oja1sgl70l3vfiftb3r8kl74kcdf7b4@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <g8epjappuvj9e6n65fbv9apg74ta1mp7pb@4ax.com>

Mario Figueiredo <marfig at gmail.com> wrote:

>Other than replacing the random module with the probability density
>function for the exponential distribution, do you have a suggestion of
>how I could smooth the curve?

Moving average. Try:

def movingaverage(interval, window_size):
    window= numpy.ones(int(window_size))/float(window_size)
    return numpy.convolve(interval, window, 'same')

y_av = movingaverage(y,10)

Note that you'd get problems at the start and end of the curve if it's
non-zero there, which is difficult to avoid with noise-reduction.


From marfig at gmail.com  Sun Apr 26 08:32:06 2015
From: marfig at gmail.com (Mario Figueiredo)
Date: Sun, 26 Apr 2015 13:32:06 +0100
Subject: [Matplotlib] Ploting an exponential distribution frequency curve
References: <bi4ojap79mlcjq05skiar1ftrfh42j3efh@4ax.com>
 <sj5ojalp0ilnnip6914dp52ok44pj848ql@4ax.com>
 <4m7oja1sgl70l3vfiftb3r8kl74kcdf7b4@4ax.com>
 <g8epjappuvj9e6n65fbv9apg74ta1mp7pb@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <k6mpjat2678it1dcbjfnrhn485q4da3ftj@4ax.com>

On Sun, 26 Apr 2015 11:17:07 +0100, Dave Farrance
<DaveFarrance at OMiTTHiSyahooANDTHiS.co.uk> wrote:

>
>Moving average. Try:
>
>def movingaverage(interval, window_size):
>    window= numpy.ones(int(window_size))/float(window_size)
>    return numpy.convolve(interval, window, 'same')
>
>y_av = movingaverage(y,10)
>
>Note that you'd get problems at the start and end of the curve if it's
>non-zero there, which is difficult to avoid with noise-reduction.

Thanks for the suggestion, Dave.

I'm also considering the interpolation sub-package in SciPy.
http://docs.scipy.org/doc/scipy/reference/tutorial/interpolate.html

I was a bit surprised that matplotlib didn't offer me interpolation
out-of-the-box like gnuplot's `smooth csplines` option.


From Cecil at decebal.nl  Sun Apr 26 09:02:21 2015
From: Cecil at decebal.nl (Cecil Westerhof)
Date: Sun, 26 Apr 2015 15:02:21 +0200
Subject: Best GUI for Python
Message-ID: <87h9s311r6.fsf@Equus.decebal.nl>

I want to use a GUI for Python. When searching I found (beside some
others) Tkinter and wxPython. From what I found it looks like Tkinter
is slightly better. What would be the pros/cons of these two? Would
there be a compelling reason to use another GUI?

-- 
Cecil Westerhof
Senior Software Engineer
LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/cecilwesterhof


From richmolj at gmail.com  Sun Apr 26 09:40:36 2015
From: richmolj at gmail.com (richmolj at gmail.com)
Date: Sun, 26 Apr 2015 06:40:36 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Library import succeeds with nose, fails elsewhere
In-Reply-To: <mailman.20.1430005996.3680.python-list@python.org>
References: <cd680312-ab2e-4303-aa20-7aa521a2f5fe@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.19.1430001979.3680.python-list@python.org>
 <a890820d-e5cf-438d-ae54-4442a6eb4e70@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.20.1430005996.3680.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <989ac24b-0572-44a5-b923-33b40e3295f4@googlegroups.com>

On Saturday, April 25, 2015 at 7:53:27 PM UTC-4, Chris Angelico wrote:
> On Sun, Apr 26, 2015 at 9:36 AM,  <richmolj at gmail.com> wrote:
> > The solution ended up being editing the top-level __init__.py:
> >
> > import awesome
> >
> > and then *when in a subdirectory*:
> >
> > import awesome_lib as awesome
> >
> > and *when in a different top-level file*:
> >
> > import awesome.
> >
> > IOW (from what I can tell) I made importing the package the same as importing this one file. When in a subdirectory import via the package, when in a sibling file import the file directly.
> >
> > This certainly feels odd, and I did find some (likely preferred) different ways I could handle it. My intent was that now I can refer to awesome.util.helper regardless of where I am (outside the package, within different directories, etc). My guess is that doing things like importing 'helper' directly and referring to it as 'helper' (no awesome.util prefix) is the python way of doing things, just didn't ring true with my background.
> >
> 
> Give "from . import helper" a try; you may find that it works just as
> well as "import helper" does, but more explicitly saying that you want
> it from the current package. Other than that, I think you have
> something that'll work fine.
> 
> ChrisA

Just to follow up - could not get "from . import awesome" to work when in helper.py. Thanks for your help though.


From steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info  Sun Apr 26 11:05:36 2015
From: steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: Mon, 27 Apr 2015 01:05:36 +1000
Subject: Question Installing latest Python
References: <70cf8ca0-beea-4f01-b962-beab1d54d2fd@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <553cfec1$0$12998$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

On Mon, 27 Apr 2015 01:00 am, ?????? ??????????????? wrote:

> Hello,
> 
> Can you please tell me how to install latest Python 3.4.x without
> disturbing the other default python v2.7.5 intallation that i currently
> have on my VPS server and access it as Python 3?
> 
> Thank you.

Not unless you tell us more about your setup.

What operating system? Linux, OS X, Unix, Windows?

32-bit or 64-bit OS?

Do you have root/Administrator access to the machine?

If you are running Windows, do you have a C compiler?

Have you read the instructions on the Python web site?



-- 
Steven



From steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info  Sun Apr 26 11:09:53 2015
From: steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: Mon, 27 Apr 2015 01:09:53 +1000
Subject: Best GUI for Python
References: <87h9s311r6.fsf@Equus.decebal.nl>
Message-ID: <553cffc2$0$12998$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

On Sun, 26 Apr 2015 11:02 pm, Cecil Westerhof wrote:

> I want to use a GUI for Python. When searching I found (beside some
> others) Tkinter and wxPython. From what I found it looks like Tkinter
> is slightly better. What would be the pros/cons of these two? Would
> there be a compelling reason to use another GUI?

Tkinter is easier to use, as it is standard with Python. So long as you have
Tk/Tcl installed on your computer, Tkinter should work fine.

However, Tkinter probably looks a bit more old fashioned.

wxPython probably looks a bit more modern and may be a bit more powerful,
but it will require a large extra library. It's also a lot harder to learn
to use wxPython unless you are comfortable with C++ programming.


Have you seen this?

https://wiki.python.org/moin/GuiProgramming
?


-- 
Steven



From Cecil at decebal.nl  Sun Apr 26 12:16:09 2015
From: Cecil at decebal.nl (Cecil Westerhof)
Date: Sun, 26 Apr 2015 18:16:09 +0200
Subject: Best GUI for Python
References: <87h9s311r6.fsf@Equus.decebal.nl>
Message-ID: <871tj627cm.fsf@Equus.decebal.nl>

Op Sunday 26 Apr 2015 15:02 CEST schreef Cecil Westerhof:

> I want to use a GUI for Python. When searching I found (beside some
> others) Tkinter and wxPython. From what I found it looks like
> Tkinter is slightly better. What would be the pros/cons of these
> two? Would there be a compelling reason to use another GUI?

It is important to tell which version of Python I use, because
wxPython does not work with Python 3.

At the moment I am still working with Python 2.7.8 and am not planning
to update to 3 in the near future.

-- 
Cecil Westerhof
Senior Software Engineer
LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/cecilwesterhof


From Cecil at decebal.nl  Sun Apr 26 12:32:28 2015
From: Cecil at decebal.nl (Cecil Westerhof)
Date: Sun, 26 Apr 2015 18:32:28 +0200
Subject: Best GUI for Python
References: <87h9s311r6.fsf@Equus.decebal.nl>
 <553cffc2$0$12998$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <87wq0yzw83.fsf@Equus.decebal.nl>

Op Sunday 26 Apr 2015 17:09 CEST schreef Steven D'Aprano:

> On Sun, 26 Apr 2015 11:02 pm, Cecil Westerhof wrote:
>
>> I want to use a GUI for Python. When searching I found (beside some
>> others) Tkinter and wxPython. From what I found it looks like
>> Tkinter is slightly better. What would be the pros/cons of these
>> two? Would there be a compelling reason to use another GUI?
>
> Tkinter is easier to use, as it is standard with Python. So long as
> you have Tk/Tcl installed on your computer, Tkinter should work
> fine.
>
> However, Tkinter probably looks a bit more old fashioned.
>
> wxPython probably looks a bit more modern and may be a bit more
> powerful, but it will require a large extra library. It's also a lot
> harder to learn to use wxPython unless you are comfortable with C++
> programming.

Well, I did my share of C++ programming. ;-)


> Have you seen this?
>
> https://wiki.python.org/moin/GuiProgramming

Dabo looks interesting, but also a little bit dead. Well, maybe I just
should evaluate Tkinter and wxPython both. Now wxPython looks more
interesting. But it is easier to make a reasonable decision when I
have a little more information. :-D

For the moment I limit it to Tkinter and wxPython.

-- 
Cecil Westerhof
Senior Software Engineer
LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/cecilwesterhof


From breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk  Sun Apr 26 13:08:30 2015
From: breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk (Mark Lawrence)
Date: Sun, 26 Apr 2015 18:08:30 +0100
Subject: Best GUI for Python
In-Reply-To: <871tj627cm.fsf@Equus.decebal.nl>
References: <87h9s311r6.fsf@Equus.decebal.nl> <871tj627cm.fsf@Equus.decebal.nl>
Message-ID: <mhj62j$o44$1@ger.gmane.org>

On 26/04/2015 17:16, Cecil Westerhof wrote:
> Op Sunday 26 Apr 2015 15:02 CEST schreef Cecil Westerhof:
>
>> I want to use a GUI for Python. When searching I found (beside some
>> others) Tkinter and wxPython. From what I found it looks like
>> Tkinter is slightly better. What would be the pros/cons of these
>> two? Would there be a compelling reason to use another GUI?
>
> It is important to tell which version of Python I use, because
> wxPython does not work with Python 3.
>

The development version of wxpython for Python 3 here 
http://wxpython.org/Phoenix/snapshot-builds/

-- 
My fellow Pythonistas, ask not what our language can do for you, ask
what you can do for our language.

Mark Lawrence



From gherron at digipen.edu  Sun Apr 26 13:12:58 2015
From: gherron at digipen.edu (Gary Herron)
Date: Sun, 26 Apr 2015 10:12:58 -0700
Subject: Best GUI for Python
In-Reply-To: <87wq0yzw83.fsf@Equus.decebal.nl>
References: <87h9s311r6.fsf@Equus.decebal.nl>
 <553cffc2$0$12998$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <87wq0yzw83.fsf@Equus.decebal.nl>
Message-ID: <553D1C9A.9010701@digipen.edu>

On 04/26/2015 09:32 AM, Cecil Westerhof wrote:
> Op Sunday 26 Apr 2015 17:09 CEST schreef Steven D'Aprano:
>
>> On Sun, 26 Apr 2015 11:02 pm, Cecil Westerhof wrote:
>>
>>> I want to use a GUI for Python. When searching I found (beside some
>>> others) Tkinter and wxPython. From what I found it looks like
>>> Tkinter is slightly better. What would be the pros/cons of these
>>> two? Would there be a compelling reason to use another GUI?
>> Tkinter is easier to use, as it is standard with Python. So long as
>> you have Tk/Tcl installed on your computer, Tkinter should work
>> fine.
>>
>> However, Tkinter probably looks a bit more old fashioned.
>>
>> wxPython probably looks a bit more modern and may be a bit more
>> powerful, but it will require a large extra library. It's also a lot
>> harder to learn to use wxPython unless you are comfortable with C++
>> programming.
> Well, I did my share of C++ programming. ;-)
>
>
>> Have you seen this?
>>
>> https://wiki.python.org/moin/GuiProgramming
> Dabo looks interesting, but also a little bit dead. Well, maybe I just
> should evaluate Tkinter and wxPython both. Now wxPython looks more
> interesting. But it is easier to make a reasonable decision when I
> have a little more information. :-D
>
> For the moment I limit it to Tkinter and wxPython.

I wouldn't recommend limiting yourself like that.  I've used both 
successively (years ago),  then pyGTK for a batch of projects, followed 
by pyglet for some years and many projects, and most recently PyQt.    
They are all worthy GUI programming libraries, and each of them is cross 
platform (as I required to develop on Linux, but deploy occasionally on 
Windows).




-- 
Dr. Gary Herron
Department of Computer Science
DigiPen Institute of Technology
(425) 895-4418



From chat2jesse at gmail.com  Sun Apr 26 13:13:40 2015
From: chat2jesse at gmail.com (jesse)
Date: Sun, 26 Apr 2015 10:13:40 -0700
Subject: any visualization web framework ?
Message-ID: <CAE6kErgkFV2-v9g5QFZubQuRkKQvAq1coruVD2xxUJUW=TZeeQ@mail.gmail.com>

show task execution;
data visualization;
easy to set up;

thanks
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/attachments/20150426/c639af3f/attachment.html>

From Cecil at decebal.nl  Sun Apr 26 14:07:02 2015
From: Cecil at decebal.nl (Cecil Westerhof)
Date: Sun, 26 Apr 2015 20:07:02 +0200
Subject: Best GUI for Python
References: <87h9s311r6.fsf@Equus.decebal.nl>
 <553cffc2$0$12998$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <87wq0yzw83.fsf@Equus.decebal.nl>
 <mailman.26.1430068806.3680.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <87sibmzruh.fsf@Equus.decebal.nl>

Op Sunday 26 Apr 2015 19:12 CEST schreef Gary Herron:

> On 04/26/2015 09:32 AM, Cecil Westerhof wrote:
>> Op Sunday 26 Apr 2015 17:09 CEST schreef Steven D'Aprano:
>>
>>> On Sun, 26 Apr 2015 11:02 pm, Cecil Westerhof wrote:
>>>
>>>> I want to use a GUI for Python. When searching I found (beside
>>>> some others) Tkinter and wxPython. From what I found it looks
>>>> like Tkinter is slightly better. What would be the pros/cons of
>>>> these two? Would there be a compelling reason to use another GUI?
>>> Tkinter is easier to use, as it is standard with Python. So long
>>> as you have Tk/Tcl installed on your computer, Tkinter should work
>>> fine.
>>>
>>> However, Tkinter probably looks a bit more old fashioned.
>>>
>>> wxPython probably looks a bit more modern and may be a bit more
>>> powerful, but it will require a large extra library. It's also a
>>> lot harder to learn to use wxPython unless you are comfortable
>>> with C++ programming.
>> Well, I did my share of C++ programming. ;-)
>>
>>
>>> Have you seen this?
>>>
>>> https://wiki.python.org/moin/GuiProgramming
>> Dabo looks interesting, but also a little bit dead. Well, maybe I
>> just should evaluate Tkinter and wxPython both. Now wxPython looks
>> more interesting. But it is easier to make a reasonable decision
>> when I have a little more information. :-D
>>
>> For the moment I limit it to Tkinter and wxPython.
>
> I wouldn't recommend limiting yourself like that. I've used both
> successively (years ago), then pyGTK for a batch of projects,
> followed by pyglet for some years and many projects, and most
> recently PyQt. They are all worthy GUI programming libraries, and
> each of them is cross platform (as I required to develop on Linux,
> but deploy occasionally on Windows).

I did say for the moment. ;-)

But just curious: what is the reason you use five different kinds of
GUI? It seems like it makes think difficult for you. I mean the
question as enlightenment for myself.

-- 
Cecil Westerhof
Senior Software Engineer
LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/cecilwesterhof


From denismfmcmahon at gmail.com  Sun Apr 26 14:55:27 2015
From: denismfmcmahon at gmail.com (Denis McMahon)
Date: Sun, 26 Apr 2015 18:55:27 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [Matplotlib] Ploting an exponential distribution frequency curve
References: <bi4ojap79mlcjq05skiar1ftrfh42j3efh@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <mhjcav$4o4$3@dont-email.me>

On Sat, 25 Apr 2015 23:33:10 +0100, Mario Figueiredo wrote:

>     plot(list(results.keys()), list(results.values()))

I found multiple plots in matplotlib. You need to specify which one 
you're using.

The first thing you need to do is create a small self contained example 
of your problem.

State the problem: Plot does not create the output you expect.

Give an example:

plot( [1,11], [5,5] )

Explain what you expect the output to be:

You expect a line to be plotted from (1,5) to (11,5)

Explain what you actually see: ???

Note that it may be possible to correlate the data values and the output 
of the simple case in a way that shows you that you have in some way 
fundamentally misunderstood how the arguments should be passed to the 
plot function. If this is the case, work out what you need to do to fix 
the simple case, and then apply the same solution to your more complex 
data set.

If, for example, you see a line from (1,11) to (5,5) instead of a line 
from (1,5) to (11,5), then it might be that you need to combine the two 
lists into a single list of co-ordinate tuples, using eg:

plot(zip(list(results.keys()), list(results.values())))

-- 
Denis McMahon, denismfmcmahon at gmail.com


From mr.smittye at gmail.com  Sun Apr 26 15:04:19 2015
From: mr.smittye at gmail.com (IronManMark20)
Date: Sun, 26 Apr 2015 12:04:19 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Best GUI for Python
In-Reply-To: <87sibmzruh.fsf@Equus.decebal.nl>
References: <87h9s311r6.fsf@Equus.decebal.nl>
 <553cffc2$0$12998$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <87wq0yzw83.fsf@Equus.decebal.nl>
 <mailman.26.1430068806.3680.python-list@python.org>
 <87sibmzruh.fsf@Equus.decebal.nl>
Message-ID: <331d2f33-ed56-4de2-b3d9-7f39a9aa2db9@googlegroups.com>


> 
> But just curious: what is the reason you use five different kinds of
> GUI? It seems like it makes think difficult for you. I mean the
> question as enlightenment for myself.

A good question :). Most of this comes from the openness to create binding for many projects. Tkinter is a binding of Tk. pyGTK is a binding of GTK, which is written in c++, the same is true of PyQt/PySide, which binds Qt. wxPython binds wxWidgets. 

I find the variation good, because it means there are more choices. I use PyQt, because I wanted very cross platform code, other choose pyGTK because they want to closely integrate with the GTK environment. 

Your choice of GUI library depends on what you are targeting.


From marfig at gmail.com  Sun Apr 26 15:57:54 2015
From: marfig at gmail.com (Mario Figueiredo)
Date: Sun, 26 Apr 2015 20:57:54 +0100
Subject: [Matplotlib] Ploting an exponential distribution frequency curve
References: <bi4ojap79mlcjq05skiar1ftrfh42j3efh@4ax.com>
 <mhjcav$4o4$3@dont-email.me>
Message-ID: <2cgqjadqlbdeiq3lm8qen1lsqb8r17sdo1@4ax.com>

On Sun, 26 Apr 2015 18:55:27 +0000 (UTC), Denis McMahon
<denismfmcmahon at gmail.com> wrote:

>The first thing you need to do is create a small self contained example 
>of your problem.
>
>State the problem: Plot does not create the output you expect.
>
>Give an example:
>
>plot( [1,11], [5,5] )
>
>Explain what you expect the output to be:
>
>You expect a line to be plotted from (1,5) to (11,5)
>
>Explain what you actually see: ???
>

I think you missed several posts in this thread, including my reply to
your earlier post. This problem was never about anythiong of that
sort. It is also solved.

I suggest, since this is a NNTP group, that you use a desktop or web
newsreader that is capable of displaying treaded messages, or set your
email client to organize emails from comp.lang.python in a threaded
way. I suspect you are using flat list email and that may be
inadequate if you wish to participate in any discussion in here.


From gary.herron at islandtraining.com  Sun Apr 26 16:06:22 2015
From: gary.herron at islandtraining.com (Gary Herron)
Date: Sun, 26 Apr 2015 13:06:22 -0700
Subject: Best GUI for Python
In-Reply-To: <87sibmzruh.fsf@Equus.decebal.nl>
References: <87h9s311r6.fsf@Equus.decebal.nl>
 <553cffc2$0$12998$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <87wq0yzw83.fsf@Equus.decebal.nl>
 <mailman.26.1430068806.3680.python-list@python.org>
 <87sibmzruh.fsf@Equus.decebal.nl>
Message-ID: <553D453E.2080708@islandtraining.com>

On 04/26/2015 11:07 AM, Cecil Westerhof wrote:
> Op Sunday 26 Apr 2015 19:12 CEST schreef Gary Herron:
>
>> On 04/26/2015 09:32 AM, Cecil Westerhof wrote:
>>> Op Sunday 26 Apr 2015 17:09 CEST schreef Steven D'Aprano:
>>>
>>>> On Sun, 26 Apr 2015 11:02 pm, Cecil Westerhof wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I want to use a GUI for Python. When searching I found (beside
>>>>> some others) Tkinter and wxPython. From what I found it looks
>>>>> like Tkinter is slightly better. What would be the pros/cons of
>>>>> these two? Would there be a compelling reason to use another GUI?
>>>> Tkinter is easier to use, as it is standard with Python. So long
>>>> as you have Tk/Tcl installed on your computer, Tkinter should work
>>>> fine.
>>>>
>>>> However, Tkinter probably looks a bit more old fashioned.
>>>>
>>>> wxPython probably looks a bit more modern and may be a bit more
>>>> powerful, but it will require a large extra library. It's also a
>>>> lot harder to learn to use wxPython unless you are comfortable
>>>> with C++ programming.
>>> Well, I did my share of C++ programming. ;-)
>>>
>>>
>>>> Have you seen this?
>>>>
>>>> https://wiki.python.org/moin/GuiProgramming
>>> Dabo looks interesting, but also a little bit dead. Well, maybe I
>>> just should evaluate Tkinter and wxPython both. Now wxPython looks
>>> more interesting. But it is easier to make a reasonable decision
>>> when I have a little more information. :-D
>>>
>>> For the moment I limit it to Tkinter and wxPython.
>> I wouldn't recommend limiting yourself like that. I've used both
>> successively (years ago), then pyGTK for a batch of projects,
>> followed by pyglet for some years and many projects, and most
>> recently PyQt. They are all worthy GUI programming libraries, and
>> each of them is cross platform (as I required to develop on Linux,
>> but deploy occasionally on Windows).
> I did say for the moment. ;-)
>
> But just curious: what is the reason you use five different kinds of
> GUI? It seems like it makes think difficult for you. I mean the
> question as enlightenment for myself.
>

Yikes,  Stated like that it does sound excessive but in reality it's 
spread over about 20 years of Python and graphics/GUI programming. 
Experimenting with a new GUI every 5 years or so  just keeps the 
interest levels up.


From ben+python at benfinney.id.au  Sun Apr 26 16:26:41 2015
From: ben+python at benfinney.id.au (Ben Finney)
Date: Mon, 27 Apr 2015 06:26:41 +1000
Subject: Best GUI for Python
References: <87h9s311r6.fsf@Equus.decebal.nl>
 <553cffc2$0$12998$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <85d22qk54u.fsf@benfinney.id.au>

Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info> writes:

> Tkinter is easier to use, as it is standard with Python. So long as
> you have Tk/Tcl installed on your computer, Tkinter should work fine.
>
> However, Tkinter probably looks a bit more old fashioned.

It doesn't have to. By using the newer ?tkinter.ttk? library
<URL:https://docs.python.org/3/library/tkinter.ttk.html>, the GUI will
use native look-and-feel widgets.

Why not by default? To preserve backward compatibility. There are some
old GUI programs using basic Tkinter, and breaking the GUI is not a good
thing to do to programs which are otherwise working fine. So you only
get the newer widgets by asking for them explicitly.

-- 
 \        ?Members of the general public commonly find copyright rules |
  `\        implausible, and simply disbelieve them.? ?Jessica Litman, |
_o__)                                              _Digital Copyright_ |
Ben Finney



From Seymore4Head at Hotmail.invalid  Sun Apr 26 17:35:17 2015
From: Seymore4Head at Hotmail.invalid (Seymore4Head)
Date: Sun, 26 Apr 2015 17:35:17 -0400
Subject: Tit for tat
Message-ID: <admqjato7hkbnh4kp8qeeepn7lcp0ck18e@4ax.com>

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=48EWLj3gIJ8

Anyone here worked on trying a better strategy?


From rosuav at gmail.com  Sun Apr 26 19:06:31 2015
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Mon, 27 Apr 2015 09:06:31 +1000
Subject: Best GUI for Python
In-Reply-To: <85d22qk54u.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
References: <87h9s311r6.fsf@Equus.decebal.nl>
 <553cffc2$0$12998$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <85d22qk54u.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmqDAJDrdTs8CQCznGs4KeFrde8CgoeSWmGLWtAtyhNULA@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Apr 27, 2015 at 6:26 AM, Ben Finney <ben+python at benfinney.id.au> wrote:
> Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info> writes:
>
>> Tkinter is easier to use, as it is standard with Python. So long as
>> you have Tk/Tcl installed on your computer, Tkinter should work fine.
>>
>> However, Tkinter probably looks a bit more old fashioned.
>
> It doesn't have to. By using the newer ?tkinter.ttk? library
> <URL:https://docs.python.org/3/library/tkinter.ttk.html>, the GUI will
> use native look-and-feel widgets.
>
> Why not by default? To preserve backward compatibility. There are some
> old GUI programs using basic Tkinter, and breaking the GUI is not a good
> thing to do to programs which are otherwise working fine. So you only
> get the newer widgets by asking for them explicitly.

Does the new library also deal with the ongoing issues with Unicode
support? AIUI there's some fundamental problem with Tkinter which
means that (possibly only on Windows?) non-BMP characters simply can't
be displayed. To me, that's a pretty bad flaw - we should be aiming
new projects at complete Unicode support, which means Python 3 and a
good GUI toolkit.

PyGTK is a bit clunky in some areas, but I have GTK experience from
other languages, so that's the one I personally use.

ChrisA


From ben+python at benfinney.id.au  Sun Apr 26 19:40:04 2015
From: ben+python at benfinney.id.au (Ben Finney)
Date: Mon, 27 Apr 2015 09:40:04 +1000
Subject: Tit for tat
References: <admqjato7hkbnh4kp8qeeepn7lcp0ck18e@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <858udejw6j.fsf@benfinney.id.au>

Seymore4Head <Seymore4Head at Hotmail.invalid> writes:

> Anyone here worked on trying a better strategy?

If you want us to spend the time visiting a link, please spend the time
yourself to summarise why it's relevant here. Do so in the initial post
with the link.

-- 
 \     ?Some mornings, it's just not worth chewing through the leather |
  `\                                             straps.? ?Emo Philips |
_o__)                                                                  |
Ben Finney



From Seymore4Head at Hotmail.invalid  Sun Apr 26 21:40:20 2015
From: Seymore4Head at Hotmail.invalid (Seymore4Head)
Date: Sun, 26 Apr 2015 21:40:20 -0400
Subject: Tit for tat
References: <admqjato7hkbnh4kp8qeeepn7lcp0ck18e@4ax.com>
 <mailman.30.1430091619.3680.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <0p4rjadeqf1fb361dbkfatgpb9s0v266po@4ax.com>

On Mon, 27 Apr 2015 09:40:04 +1000, Ben Finney
<ben+python at benfinney.id.au> wrote:

>Seymore4Head <Seymore4Head at Hotmail.invalid> writes:
>
>> Anyone here worked on trying a better strategy?
>
>If you want us to spend the time visiting a link, please spend the time
>yourself to summarise why it's relevant here. Do so in the initial post
>with the link.

Richard Dawkins explains with passion the idea of game theory and tit
for tat, or why cooperation with strangers is often a strong strategy.

He talks of a computer program tournament.  I don't know what I could
say that would be more interesting than just watching the video.


From rustompmody at gmail.com  Sun Apr 26 21:50:24 2015
From: rustompmody at gmail.com (Rustom Mody)
Date: Sun, 26 Apr 2015 18:50:24 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Tit for tat
In-Reply-To: <0p4rjadeqf1fb361dbkfatgpb9s0v266po@4ax.com>
References: <admqjato7hkbnh4kp8qeeepn7lcp0ck18e@4ax.com>
 <mailman.30.1430091619.3680.python-list@python.org>
 <0p4rjadeqf1fb361dbkfatgpb9s0v266po@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <6cf5086b-4cf0-4d8e-84c5-8046a3097cde@googlegroups.com>

On Monday, April 27, 2015 at 7:11:08 AM UTC+5:30, Seymore4Head wrote:
> On Mon, 27 Apr 2015 09:40:04 +1000, Ben Finney wrote:
> 
> >Seymore4Head  writes:
> >
> >> Anyone here worked on trying a better strategy?
> >
> >If you want us to spend the time visiting a link, please spend the time
> >yourself to summarise why it's relevant here. Do so in the initial post
> >with the link.
> 
> Richard Dawkins explains with passion the idea of game theory and tit
> for tat, or why cooperation with strangers is often a strong strategy.
> 
> He talks of a computer program tournament.  I don't know what I could
> say that would be more interesting than just watching the video.

That's a good summary.
Many people would not click on any-ol video


From kwa at kuwata-lab.com  Sun Apr 26 22:37:47 2015
From: kwa at kuwata-lab.com (Makoto Kuwata)
Date: Mon, 27 Apr 2015 11:37:47 +0900
Subject: Function decorator having arguments is complicated
Message-ID: <CAFTm5Ru5NbFOtLPoVSPujeakrGawdHXjNkWJOVs1XrvBNnOUOQ@mail.gmail.com>

I want to ask Python experts about function decorator which has arguments.

I feel that function decorator having arguments is complicated,
because three 'def' are nested:

  def multiply(n):
    def deco(func):
      def newfunc(*args, **kwargs):
        return n * func(*args, **kwargs)
      return newfunc
    return deco

  @multiply(4)
  def f1(x, y):
    return x+y

  print(f1(2, 3))   #=> 20  (= 4 * (2+3))


If function decorator notation could take arguments,
decorator definition would be more simple:

  def multiply(func, n):
    def newfunc(*args, **kwargs):
      return n * func(*args, **kwargs)
    return newfunc

  @multiply 4      # ex: @decorator arg1, arg2, arg3
  def f1(x, y):
    return x+y


How do you think about this idea?

--
regards,
makoto kuwata
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/attachments/20150427/829e85d5/attachment.html>

From ben+python at benfinney.id.au  Sun Apr 26 22:48:14 2015
From: ben+python at benfinney.id.au (Ben Finney)
Date: Mon, 27 Apr 2015 12:48:14 +1000
Subject: Tit for tat
References: <admqjato7hkbnh4kp8qeeepn7lcp0ck18e@4ax.com>
 <mailman.30.1430091619.3680.python-list@python.org>
 <0p4rjadeqf1fb361dbkfatgpb9s0v266po@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <854mo2jngx.fsf@benfinney.id.au>

Seymore4Head <Seymore4Head at Hotmail.invalid> writes:

> Richard Dawkins explains with passion the idea of game theory and tit
> for tat, or why cooperation with strangers is often a strong strategy.
>
> He talks of a computer program tournament.

Thanks! That is what would be great to have when you present the link in
the first message. That way we know *why* we should go visit an
otherwise context-free link.

-- 
 \           ?The basic fact about human existence is not that it is a |
  `\                tragedy, but that it is a bore.? ?Henry L. Mencken |
_o__)                                                                  |
Ben Finney



From rosuav at gmail.com  Sun Apr 26 23:20:32 2015
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Mon, 27 Apr 2015 13:20:32 +1000
Subject: Function decorator having arguments is complicated
In-Reply-To: <CAFTm5Ru5NbFOtLPoVSPujeakrGawdHXjNkWJOVs1XrvBNnOUOQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAFTm5Ru5NbFOtLPoVSPujeakrGawdHXjNkWJOVs1XrvBNnOUOQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmqruXnxm=WOF36Kh56hprnxMkHfXKOv8cMasGn-CEusbg@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Apr 27, 2015 at 12:37 PM, Makoto Kuwata <kwa at kuwata-lab.com> wrote:
> If function decorator notation could take arguments,
> decorator definition would be more simple:
>
>   def multiply(func, n):
>     def newfunc(*args, **kwargs):
>       return n * func(*args, **kwargs)
>     return newfunc
>
>   @multiply 4      # ex: @decorator arg1, arg2, arg3
>   def f1(x, y):
>     return x+y
>

I agree it would be nice to have extra parameters directly handled,
but before you go further with the proposal, I suggest having a read
of the original PEP that introduced decorators:

https://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0318/

There are a *lot* of different ways that decorators could have been
done. Currently, decorators use a restricted subset of expression
syntax; the bit after the @ is guaranteed [1] to be a valid expression
which results in a callable which is passed one argument (the
function) and whose return value replaces the function. What you
propose would no longer be a valid expression, and may introduce
parsing problems for the interpreter and/or for humans.

But if the writing of decorators is hard and common for you, you can
always use a bit of metaprogramming to simplify it. (Since decorators
are already metaprogramming, this would be metametaprogramming, I
guess.) Something like:

import functools

def decorator(deco):
    """Make a function into an argument-accepting decorator"""
    @functools.wraps(deco)
    def outer(*a, **kw):
        def inner(func):
            return deco(func, *a, **kw)
        return inner
    return outer

@decorator
def multiply(func, n):
    @functools.wraps(func)
    def newfunc(*a, **kw): return n * func(*a, **kw)
    return newfunc

@multiply(4)
def f1(x, y):
    return x+y

print(f1(2, 3))   #=> 20  (= 4 * (2+3))

(Note that I'm using functools.wraps here so docstrings and stuff get
carried over)

And if you're writing a lot of functions that call the original and
then do something with the result, you could push that part into the
decorator too:

import functools

def modifier(deco):
    """Make a function into an argument-accepting decorator"""
    @functools.wraps(deco)
    def outer(*a1, **kw1):
        def middle(func):
            def inner(*a2, **kw2):
                return deco(func(*a2, **kw2), *a1, **kw1)
            return inner
        return middle
    return outer

@modifier
def multiply(result, n):
    return n * result

@multiply(4)
def f1(x, y):
    return x+y

print(f1(2, 3))   #=> 20  (= 4 * (2+3))

Python lets you be as insane as you like :) There are a lot of places
in Python code (actually, in code generally) where usage is clean and
implementation is horrific, and this can be one of them. The
modifier() function's implemenation is deeply nested, but it's
beautifully easy to use. A namedtuple is really convenient to use
(just subscript it or use attribute lookup!), creating a new
namedtuple type is reasonably alright, but the implementation of
namedtuple() itself is scary. Nested and complicated, I got no problem
with, long as she does it quiet-like!

Can you do everything you need with a metadecorator? Either way, it's
worth working on as part of a plan for parameterized decorators.
Either you can say "here's this new syntax, and it's equivalent to
this massive block of code" (look at the definition of "yield from" in
PEP 380 - sure, you *can* manage without it, but getting the edge
cases right is messy), or you can say "here's this new syntax, and it
allows us to do this, this, and this, which otherwise wouldn't be
possible".

Given how common parameterized decorators are, it's likely there'll be
some support for at least the broad concept of the proposal.

ChrisA

[1] At least, I'm pretty sure it is; I may be wrong.


From ethan at stoneleaf.us  Mon Apr 27 00:24:26 2015
From: ethan at stoneleaf.us (Ethan Furman)
Date: Sun, 26 Apr 2015 21:24:26 -0700
Subject: Function decorator having arguments is complicated
In-Reply-To: <CAFTm5Ru5NbFOtLPoVSPujeakrGawdHXjNkWJOVs1XrvBNnOUOQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAFTm5Ru5NbFOtLPoVSPujeakrGawdHXjNkWJOVs1XrvBNnOUOQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20150427042426.GD32422@stoneleaf.us>

On 04/27, Makoto Kuwata wrote:
> 
> I feel that function decorator having arguments is complicated,
> because three 'def' are nested:
> 
>   def multiply(n):
>     def deco(func):
>       def newfunc(*args, **kwargs):
>         return n * func(*args, **kwargs)
>       return newfunc
>     return deco

When I have to write an argument-taking decorator, I use a class:

    class multiply(object):  # don't need 'object in 3.x'

        def __init__(self, n):
            self.n = n

        def __call__(self, func):
            def newfunc(*args, **kwargs):
                return self.n * func(*args, **kwargs)
            return newfunc

>   @multiply(4)
>   def f1(x, y):
>     return x+y
> 
>   print(f1(2, 3))   #=> 20  (= 4 * (2+3))

This all works the same.
> 
> 
> If function decorator notation could take arguments,
> decorator definition would be more simple:
> 
>   def multiply(func, n):
>     def newfunc(*args, **kwargs):
>       return n * func(*args, **kwargs)
>     return newfunc
> 
>   @multiply 4      # ex: @decorator arg1, arg2, arg3
>   def f1(x, y):
>     return x+y
> 
> 
> How do you think about this idea?

It's unnecessary, just use a class instead of a function to get more
clarity.

--
~Ethan~


From rosuav at gmail.com  Mon Apr 27 00:32:05 2015
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Mon, 27 Apr 2015 14:32:05 +1000
Subject: Function decorator having arguments is complicated
In-Reply-To: <20150427042426.GD32422@stoneleaf.us>
References: <CAFTm5Ru5NbFOtLPoVSPujeakrGawdHXjNkWJOVs1XrvBNnOUOQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <20150427042426.GD32422@stoneleaf.us>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmpYOoTLCL6hk2MDk5_V2ffmA-wON2rbnG_cE6oDjg9YoQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Apr 27, 2015 at 2:24 PM, Ethan Furman <ethan at stoneleaf.us> wrote:
> On 04/27, Makoto Kuwata wrote:
>>
>> I feel that function decorator having arguments is complicated,
>> because three 'def' are nested:
>>
>>   def multiply(n):
>>     def deco(func):
>>       def newfunc(*args, **kwargs):
>>         return n * func(*args, **kwargs)
>>       return newfunc
>>     return deco
>
> When I have to write an argument-taking decorator, I use a class:
>
>     class multiply(object):  # don't need 'object in 3.x'
>
>         def __init__(self, n):
>             self.n = n
>
>         def __call__(self, func):
>             def newfunc(*args, **kwargs):
>                 return self.n * func(*args, **kwargs)
>             return newfunc

What's the advantage of that over a simple closure? You have the same
number of nesting levels, plus a lot more boiler-plate repetition -
instead of just referencing names from the outer scope, you have to
explicitly capture them all with "self.n=n" for each one. I'm not sure
you really even gain much clarity.

In a way, a closure is a short-hand for an object with a __call__
method that auto-captures all its local variables.

ChrisA


From ethan at stoneleaf.us  Mon Apr 27 00:45:00 2015
From: ethan at stoneleaf.us (Ethan Furman)
Date: Sun, 26 Apr 2015 21:45:00 -0700
Subject: Function decorator having arguments is complicated
In-Reply-To: <CAPTjJmpYOoTLCL6hk2MDk5_V2ffmA-wON2rbnG_cE6oDjg9YoQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAFTm5Ru5NbFOtLPoVSPujeakrGawdHXjNkWJOVs1XrvBNnOUOQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <20150427042426.GD32422@stoneleaf.us>
 <CAPTjJmpYOoTLCL6hk2MDk5_V2ffmA-wON2rbnG_cE6oDjg9YoQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20150427044500.GE32422@stoneleaf.us>

On 04/27, Chris Angelico wrote:
> On Mon, Apr 27, 2015 at 2:24 PM, Ethan Furman wrote:
> > On 04/27, Makoto Kuwata wrote:
> >>
> >> I feel that function decorator having arguments is complicated,
> >> because three 'def' are nested:
> >>
> >>   def multiply(n):
> >>     def deco(func):
> >>       def newfunc(*args, **kwargs):
> >>         return n * func(*args, **kwargs)
> >>       return newfunc
> >>     return deco
> >
> > When I have to write an argument-taking decorator, I use a class:
> >
> >     class multiply(object):  # don't need 'object in 3.x'
> >
> >         def __init__(self, n):
> >             self.n = n
> >
> >         def __call__(self, func):
> >             def newfunc(*args, **kwargs):
> >                 return self.n * func(*args, **kwargs)
> >             return newfunc
> 
> What's the advantage of that over a simple closure? You have the same
> number of nesting levels, plus a lot more boiler-plate repetition -
> instead of just referencing names from the outer scope, you have to
> explicitly capture them all with "self.n=n" for each one. I'm not sure
> you really even gain much clarity.
> 
> In a way, a closure is a short-hand for an object with a __call__
> method that auto-captures all its local variables.

I find it much easier to keep track of what is going on, especially in
those cases where there is pre-, post-, or both, processing going on.

YMMV.

--
~Ethan~


From rosuav at gmail.com  Mon Apr 27 01:25:27 2015
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Mon, 27 Apr 2015 15:25:27 +1000
Subject: Function decorator having arguments is complicated
In-Reply-To: <20150427044500.GE32422@stoneleaf.us>
References: <CAFTm5Ru5NbFOtLPoVSPujeakrGawdHXjNkWJOVs1XrvBNnOUOQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <20150427042426.GD32422@stoneleaf.us>
 <CAPTjJmpYOoTLCL6hk2MDk5_V2ffmA-wON2rbnG_cE6oDjg9YoQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <20150427044500.GE32422@stoneleaf.us>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmrRHkimF1a4khHYFYtMgQ88RnyfMvjkovpvAo3A6hih=w@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Apr 27, 2015 at 2:45 PM, Ethan Furman <ethan at stoneleaf.us> wrote:
>> What's the advantage of that over a simple closure? You have the same
>> number of nesting levels, plus a lot more boiler-plate repetition -
>> instead of just referencing names from the outer scope, you have to
>> explicitly capture them all with "self.n=n" for each one. I'm not sure
>> you really even gain much clarity.
>>
>> In a way, a closure is a short-hand for an object with a __call__
>> method that auto-captures all its local variables.
>
> I find it much easier to keep track of what is going on, especially in
> those cases where there is pre-, post-, or both, processing going on.
>
> YMMV.

Perhaps in the complicated cases, but in the common and simple case
that the OP's talking about (where the purpose of the outermost
function is solely to capture arguments for the next level in), I
wouldn't bother with a class.

But as you say, YMMV.

ChrisA


From rosuav at gmail.com  Mon Apr 27 01:30:36 2015
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Mon, 27 Apr 2015 15:30:36 +1000
Subject: Function decorator having arguments is complicated
In-Reply-To: <CAFTm5RuzO4jKZWpoYsexze7w-GVbUDSGQB=J8eAeY0ZDOY-Uow@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAFTm5Ru5NbFOtLPoVSPujeakrGawdHXjNkWJOVs1XrvBNnOUOQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAPTjJmqruXnxm=WOF36Kh56hprnxMkHfXKOv8cMasGn-CEusbg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAFTm5RuzO4jKZWpoYsexze7w-GVbUDSGQB=J8eAeY0ZDOY-Uow@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmpLaDBqzDPiCRwPujTTM4UbdLyNoK6JDa+c3vncm=+24A@mail.gmail.com>

(Redirecting to the list - hope you don't mind)

On Mon, Apr 27, 2015 at 2:36 PM, Makoto Kuwata <kwa at kuwata-lab.com> wrote:
>
>
> On Mon, Apr 27, 2015 at 12:20 PM, Chris Angelico <rosuav at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>> I agree it would be nice to have extra parameters directly handled,
>> but before you go further with the proposal, I suggest having a read
>> of the original PEP that introduced decorators:
>>
>> https://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0318/
>>
>
> Thanks, it is an useful link.
> But I can't find any sentence related to the problem what I argued.

Correct, it doesn't specifically say you can't propose this; I'm just
saying it's good to know how we got here before proposing to go
further.

> I found the following example code in PEP318:
>
>> def accepts(*types):
>>     def check_accepts(f):
>>         assert len(types) == f.func_code.co_argcount
>>         def new_f(*args, **kwds):
>>             for (a, t) in zip(args, types):
>>                 assert isinstance(a, t), \
>>                        "arg %r does not match %s" % (a,t)
>>             return f(*args, **kwds)
>>         new_f.func_name = f.func_name
>>         return new_f
>>     return check_accepts
>
> But nobody seems to mention the complication of the above code.
>
>
>>
>> There are a *lot* of different ways that decorators could have been
>> done. Currently, decorators use a restricted subset of expression
>> syntax; the bit after the @ is guaranteed [1] to be a valid expression
>> which results in a callable which is passed one argument (the
>> function) and whose return value replaces the function. What you
>> propose would no longer be a valid expression, and may introduce
>> parsing problems for the interpreter and/or for humans.
>
>
> Do you mean that it is too difficult to extend python syntax?

Yes; not impossible, but any change to syntax has to be very strongly justified.

>> But if the writing of decorators is hard and common for you, you can
>> always use a bit of metaprogramming to simplify it.
>
>
> It is not so hard for me to read/write complicated decorator,
> but it is hard for young Python programmer those who I'm teaching Python.
> (And it is hard for me to explain them about complicated decorator.)
>
> It would be very good for both me and young Python programmer
> if decorator having arguments could be described in non-complicated code.
>
> # Meta decorator programming is not the solution I hope.
> # It introduces another complex.

Maybe, but you could just give your students a black-box module that
makes life easier for them - the "modify" or "decorator" function
could be in there.

Or you could do what I do with my students, and simply start from the
simplest decorators and build up. It's usually not hard to describe a
simple hard-coded decorator (always does the same thing), then a
simple wrapping decorator (calls the original function, returns a
wrapper), and then add parameters after that.

ChrisA


From john_ladasky at sbcglobal.net  Mon Apr 27 01:50:03 2015
From: john_ladasky at sbcglobal.net (John Ladasky)
Date: Sun, 26 Apr 2015 22:50:03 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Tit for tat
In-Reply-To: <0p4rjadeqf1fb361dbkfatgpb9s0v266po@4ax.com>
References: <admqjato7hkbnh4kp8qeeepn7lcp0ck18e@4ax.com>
 <mailman.30.1430091619.3680.python-list@python.org>
 <0p4rjadeqf1fb361dbkfatgpb9s0v266po@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <1aa6b45b-8c50-48f8-ae01-86a4bf8a838f@googlegroups.com>

On Sunday, April 26, 2015 at 6:41:08 PM UTC-7, Seymore4Head wrote:
 
> Richard Dawkins explains with passion the idea of game theory and tit
> for tat, or why cooperation with strangers is often a strong strategy.
> 
> He talks of a computer program tournament.  I don't know what I could
> say that would be more interesting than just watching the video.

Well, I'm not sure sure what any of this has to do with Python -- but since I know something about the subject, I'll reply.

That Richard Dawkins video is quite old -- it would appear to be from the middle 1980's.  Douglas Hofstadter's 1985 book, _Metamagical_Themas_, covered this exact same material.  A game called the "Iterated Prisoner's Dilemma" is played (I'll abbreviate it as IPD).  Humans can play, of course, but in this case it is played by algorithms.  An algorithm called "Tit for Tat" is surprisingly simple and robust.  When meeting a new contestant, Tit for Tat plays nice in round 1; and on every subsequent round, it plays however that opponent played the last time.  

Evolutionary biologists like Dawkins point to the success of Tit for Tat in IPD as a model of how cooperation could emerge in a population of selfish organisms.  Now, in a round-robin IPD game, Tit for Tat wins pretty handily.  But in some other scenarios, as I recall, Tit for Tat is not a runaway winner.

Suppose that instead of each strategy playing EVERY other, each strategy inhabits a "territory" in a space, and each strategy only plays its neighbors.  In "rough neighborhoods", Tit for Tat can lose out to more punitive strategies.  If Tit for Tat is around more cooperative strategies, it thrives.  The boundaries between good neighborhoods and bad are chaotic.  Tit for Tat more or less holds the borders, but usually can't clean out a bad neighborhood.

This finding came out many years after the Hofstadter and Dawkins reports, so it's not covered in the video.  My reference to the idea is a 1997 paper entitled "The Undecidability of the Spatialized Prisoner's Dilemma," by Patrick Grim (http://link.springer.com/article/10.1023%2FA%3A1004959623042).


From john_ladasky at sbcglobal.net  Mon Apr 27 01:58:12 2015
From: john_ladasky at sbcglobal.net (John Ladasky)
Date: Sun, 26 Apr 2015 22:58:12 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Tit for tat
In-Reply-To: <1aa6b45b-8c50-48f8-ae01-86a4bf8a838f@googlegroups.com>
References: <admqjato7hkbnh4kp8qeeepn7lcp0ck18e@4ax.com>
 <mailman.30.1430091619.3680.python-list@python.org>
 <0p4rjadeqf1fb361dbkfatgpb9s0v266po@4ax.com>
 <1aa6b45b-8c50-48f8-ae01-86a4bf8a838f@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <f083393f-1d75-40ee-9cad-750e72e71e02@googlegroups.com>

Following up to myself...

Here's a link to Patrick Grim's results that you can actually download (Springer really retains a 1997 research paper behind a paywall?):

http://www.pgrim.org/pgrim/SPATIALP.HTM


From auriocus at gmx.de  Mon Apr 27 02:55:00 2015
From: auriocus at gmx.de (Christian Gollwitzer)
Date: Mon, 27 Apr 2015 08:55:00 +0200
Subject: Best GUI for Python
In-Reply-To: <mailman.29.1430089600.3680.python-list@python.org>
References: <87h9s311r6.fsf@Equus.decebal.nl>
 <553cffc2$0$12998$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <85d22qk54u.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
 <mailman.29.1430089600.3680.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <mhkme8$4gd$1@dont-email.me>

Am 27.04.15 um 01:06 schrieb Chris Angelico:
> On Mon, Apr 27, 2015 at 6:26 AM, Ben Finney <ben+python at benfinney.id.au> wrote:
>> It doesn't have to. By using the newer ?tkinter.ttk? library
>> <URL:https://docs.python.org/3/library/tkinter.ttk.html>, the GUI will
>> use native look-and-feel widgets.
>>
> Does the new library also deal with the ongoing issues with Unicode
> support? AIUI there's some fundamental problem with Tkinter which
> means that (possibly only on Windows?) non-BMP characters simply can't
> be displayed.

No. That is a fundamental limit in Tcl 8 (it uses UCS-2 to store 
strings), and will probably only addressed in Tcl 9. ttk addresses 
mostly the theming issue and is now "8 years new" (Tk 8.5a6) with a 
precursor (Tile) from ten years ago.


To me, that's a pretty bad flaw - we should be aiming
> new projects at complete Unicode support, which means Python 3 and a
> good GUI toolkit.

YMMV. Is non-BMP needed for any living non-esoteric language? I agree 
that it is a big flaw, but still is useful for very many projects.

	Christian



From steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info  Mon Apr 27 03:15:17 2015
From: steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: Mon, 27 Apr 2015 17:15:17 +1000
Subject: Best GUI for Python
References: <87h9s311r6.fsf@Equus.decebal.nl>
 <553cffc2$0$12998$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <85d22qk54u.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
 <mailman.29.1430089600.3680.python-list@python.org>
 <mhkme8$4gd$1@dont-email.me>
Message-ID: <553de205$0$11128$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>

On Monday 27 April 2015 16:55, Christian Gollwitzer wrote:

> YMMV. Is non-BMP needed for any living non-esoteric language? I agree
> that it is a big flaw, but still is useful for very many projects.

Yes.

The Unicode Supplementary Multilingual Planes (SMPs) are used for rare but 
still current East Asian characters (which means that some of your Chinese 
users may not be able to write their names without it), also some 
mathematics symbols (okay, that's *slightly* esoteric), as well as emoji.

None of those uses are critical (unless you have a lot of Chinese users) but 
supporting the SMPs should not be considered optional.


-- 
Steve



From rosuav at gmail.com  Mon Apr 27 03:22:26 2015
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Mon, 27 Apr 2015 17:22:26 +1000
Subject: Best GUI for Python
In-Reply-To: <mhkme8$4gd$1@dont-email.me>
References: <87h9s311r6.fsf@Equus.decebal.nl>
 <553cffc2$0$12998$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <85d22qk54u.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
 <mailman.29.1430089600.3680.python-list@python.org>
 <mhkme8$4gd$1@dont-email.me>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmpt2tkS2A_=3dVgHwRXucLBu50yc=jjnJHfNy62+wV_AA@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Apr 27, 2015 at 4:55 PM, Christian Gollwitzer <auriocus at gmx.de> wrote:
> Am 27.04.15 um 01:06 schrieb Chris Angelico:
>>
>> On Mon, Apr 27, 2015 at 6:26 AM, Ben Finney <ben+python at benfinney.id.au>
>> wrote:
>>>
>>> It doesn't have to. By using the newer ?tkinter.ttk? library
>>> <URL:https://docs.python.org/3/library/tkinter.ttk.html>, the GUI will
>>> use native look-and-feel widgets.
>>>
>> Does the new library also deal with the ongoing issues with Unicode
>> support? AIUI there's some fundamental problem with Tkinter which
>> means that (possibly only on Windows?) non-BMP characters simply can't
>> be displayed.
>
>
> No. That is a fundamental limit in Tcl 8 (it uses UCS-2 to store strings),
> and will probably only addressed in Tcl 9. ttk addresses mostly the theming
> issue and is now "8 years new" (Tk 8.5a6) with a precursor (Tile) from ten
> years ago.

Right, so this is an ongoing issue (at least for now).

>> To me, that's a pretty bad flaw - we should be aiming
>> new projects at complete Unicode support, which means Python 3 and a
>> good GUI toolkit.
>
>
> YMMV. Is non-BMP needed for any living non-esoteric language? I agree that
> it is a big flaw, but still is useful for very many projects.

Maybe not for the language itself, but then, you can transliterate
Chinese using nothing but Roman letters and Arabic numerals (all in
ASCII), so merely proving that you can represent text doesn't
necessarily mean everything. Mainly, SMP characters are used for
things like musical notes, mathematical symbols, emoticons, and so on.
(Also, I'm not sure of the current state of the art as regards Chinese
and Japanese characters.) If you support only the BMP, then you're far
better off than supporting only ASCII or only <some eight-bit code
page>, to be sure, but it's still cutting out some characters. For a
program that already exists, already works, and can't handle non-BMP
characters, it's a small issue, and not one that I'd be recommending a
complete GUI toolkit replacement for; but for a green-field project, I
would strongly recommend using Python 3 and some toolkit which
supports the full Unicode range.

This is a problem that won't just "go away". As more SMP blocks get
assigned, more people will start using them, and get frustrated at
your program for not letting them. (And why should an end user need to
know the difference between ? and ?, that the second one works and
the first doesn't?) Unless you're willing to wait for a Python that
ships Tcl 9, Tkinter is a choice that restricts your end users.

ChrisA


From steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info  Mon Apr 27 03:36:15 2015
From: steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: Mon, 27 Apr 2015 17:36:15 +1000
Subject: Function decorator having arguments is complicated
References: <mailman.31.1430102277.3680.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <553de6f1$0$12905$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

On Monday 27 April 2015 12:37, Makoto Kuwata wrote:

> I want to ask Python experts about function decorator which has arguments.
> 
> I feel that function decorator having arguments is complicated,
> because three 'def' are nested:
> 
>   def multiply(n):
>     def deco(func):
>       def newfunc(*args, **kwargs):
>         return n * func(*args, **kwargs)
>       return newfunc
>     return deco

Yes. But not that complicated -- it is only three levels, and the pattern is 
pretty simple:

- outer function takes arguments and returns a decorator;
- middle function is the decorator to be returned;
- inner function is the new function returned by the decorator.

So we start with a regular decorator:

def deco(func):
    def newfunc(*args, **kwargs):
        return n * func(*args, **kwargs)
    return newfunc

indent it one more level, and wrap it in a function:

def multiply(n):
    # as above, indented one extra level


What's really tricky is a decorator which can *optionally* take arguments or 
not:

@decorator(x, y)
def function(): ...


# not the same as @decorate()
@decorate
def function(): ...


> If function decorator notation could take arguments,
> decorator definition would be more simple:

Yes, but then we have to learn more syntax:

@decorate
@decorate n
@decorate(n)
@decorate()  # uses the default for multiply

could all be different.

Although I agree with you that writing a decorator factory is a bit 
complicated, it is simple to break it up into individual sub-steps:

* I know how to write a function that adapts or wraps another 
  function.

* I know how to write a decorator: write a function, indent it 
  one extra level, and wrap it in an outer function;

* I know how to write a decorator factory: write a decorator, 
  indent it one extra level, and wrap it in an outer function;

which could even be extended:

* I know how to write a decorator-factory factory: write a 
  decorator factory, indent it one extra level, and wrap it 
  in an outer function.


Saving one layer is not important enough to justify specialised syntax.



-- 
Steve



From kaiser.yann at gmail.com  Mon Apr 27 05:02:40 2015
From: kaiser.yann at gmail.com (Yann Kaiser)
Date: Mon, 27 Apr 2015 09:02:40 +0000
Subject: Clize 3.0b1: An argument parser that draws a CLI from your function
 sigature
Message-ID: <CANUJvPWSO8bW3mNh1_wCH6qcoGtUE=9zJ71acdga8d0vViZZ8Q@mail.gmail.com>

Hello everyone!

After a few years in development, I am proud to say Clize is landing its
feet again and is now in beta for an upcoming release.

You can try it out using    pip install --user clize=3.0b1    and you can
browse the docs at    https://clize.readthedocs.org/

For those who'd like an explanation before clicking links, here's Clize's
5-bullet point explanation:

* Command-line interfaces are created by passing functions to `clize.run`.
* Parameter types are deduced from the functions' parameters.
* A ``--help`` message is generated from your docstrings. (Why does this
still need to be a bullet point?)
* Decorators can be used to reuse functionality across functions.
* Clize can be extended with new parameter behavior.

I am primarily looking for feedback on the documentation contents, and I
need to source a FAQ page, but any feedback is welcome!

If you are into that sort of thing, I've also just set up a G+ community
for it at: https://plus.google.com/communities/101146333300650079362
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/attachments/20150427/f0245d4b/attachment.html>

From robin at reportlab.com  Mon Apr 27 05:21:18 2015
From: robin at reportlab.com (Robin Becker)
Date: Mon, 27 Apr 2015 10:21:18 +0100
Subject: mac os core dump from detached process
Message-ID: <553DFF8E.6090607@chamonix.reportlab.co.uk>

I'm using the double fork exec model as exemplified in

http://code.activestate.com/recipes/278731-creating-a-daemon-the-python-way/

to run a django management command detached from any view. A database object is 
used to store/update information about the process. The command does have a log 
file and appears to work well on linux.

However, on my developer colleague's mac using the django development server the 
job ends suddenly without passing through the try except finally that's supposed 
to capture information.

I believe the only way it can do this is os._exit or an interrupt eg SIGSEGV etc 
etc.

Is it possible to get core dumps on the Mac for  debugging purposes? Would the 
detached process inherit flags etc etc from the starting process? I know little 
about OS X/Mach.
-- 
Robin Becker



From colin.mcphail at mac.com  Mon Apr 27 06:29:31 2015
From: colin.mcphail at mac.com (Colin McPhail)
Date: Mon, 27 Apr 2015 11:29:31 +0100
Subject: mac os core dump from detached process
In-Reply-To: <553DFF8E.6090607@chamonix.reportlab.co.uk>
References: <553DFF8E.6090607@chamonix.reportlab.co.uk>
Message-ID: <1274A595-99D7-40E9-A18D-0B833B18320F@mac.com>


> On 27 Apr 2015, at 10:21, Robin Becker <robin at reportlab.com> wrote:
> 
> I'm using the double fork exec model as exemplified in
> 
> http://code.activestate.com/recipes/278731-creating-a-daemon-the-python-way/
> 
> to run a django management command detached from any view. A database object is used to store/update information about the process. The command does have a log file and appears to work well on linux.
> 
> However, on my developer colleague's mac using the django development server the job ends suddenly without passing through the try except finally that's supposed to capture information.
> 
> I believe the only way it can do this is os._exit or an interrupt eg SIGSEGV etc etc.
> 
> Is it possible to get core dumps on the Mac for  debugging purposes? Would the detached process inherit flags etc etc from the starting process? I know little about OS X/Mach.
> 

My first thought would be to run Applications -> Utilities -> Console and look for a crash report under ?User Diagnostic Reports? in the sidebar. I?m not entirely sure what my second thought would be if there wasn?t a report there.

? CMcP

From Cecil at decebal.nl  Mon Apr 27 09:35:58 2015
From: Cecil at decebal.nl (Cecil Westerhof)
Date: Mon, 27 Apr 2015 15:35:58 +0200
Subject: Wrote a memoize function: I do not mind feedback
Message-ID: <87h9s1zoap.fsf@Equus.decebal.nl>

I started again with Python. In Clojure you have memoize. I thought it
nice to have this in Python also. So I wrote it. With a Fibonacci
function to show the usefulness.
You can find it here:
    https://github.com/CecilWesterhof/PythonLibrary

I love to hear what you think of it.

And ideas for other functionalities are welcome also. ?bung macht den
Meister.

-- 
Cecil Westerhof
Senior Software Engineer
LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/cecilwesterhof


From ndbecker2 at gmail.com  Mon Apr 27 09:54:51 2015
From: ndbecker2 at gmail.com (Neal Becker)
Date: Mon, 27 Apr 2015 09:54:51 -0400
Subject: heapq - why no key= arg?
Message-ID: <mhlf3c$lba$1@ger.gmane.org>

Looking at heapq, I see only nlargest/nsmallest provide a key= arg.  What 
about other operations, such as heapify?  Am I not understanding something?  
I suppose for other ops, such as heapify, I can only customize comparison by 
customizing the object comparison operators?

-- 
Those who fail to understand recursion are doomed to repeat it



From __peter__ at web.de  Mon Apr 27 10:24:32 2015
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Mon, 27 Apr 2015 16:24:32 +0200
Subject: heapq - why no key= arg?
References: <mhlf3c$lba$1@ger.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <mhlgr3$plv$1@ger.gmane.org>

Neal Becker wrote:

> Looking at heapq, I see only nlargest/nsmallest provide a key= arg.  What
> about other operations, such as heapify?  Am I not understanding
> something? 

nlargest/nsmallest() use the decorate-sort-undecorate pattern to avoid 
calculating the key more than once. For the other operations you'd have to 
calculate key(item) repeatedly for every item involved in the specific 
operation.

> I suppose for other ops, such as heapify, I can only customize
> comparison by customizing the object comparison operators?

I'm sure someons's written a Heapq class that automatically decorates when 
an item is added and undecorates when one is looked up or removed. As I'm 
too lazy to look it up here's a sketch:

$ cat myheapq.py
import heapq
from itertools import count


class Heapq:
    def __init__(self, values, key):
        self.counter = count()
        self.key = key
        self.items = [(key(value), index, value)
                      for index, value in zip(self.counter, values)]
        heapq.heapify(self.items)

    def push(self, value):
        heapq.heappush(
            self.items,
            (self.key(value), next(self.counter), value))

    def pop(self):
        return heapq.heappop(self.items)[-1]

    def __str__(self):
        return str([item[-1] for item in self.items])

    def __bool__(self):
        return not not self.items

if __name__ == "__main__":
    h = Heapq([1, -2, -3, 4], key=abs)
    print(h)
    print(h.pop())
    print(h)
    h.push(-5)
    print(h)

    while h:
        print(h.pop(), end=", " if h else "\n")
$ python3 myheapq.py 
[1, -2, -3, 4]
1
[-2, 4, -3]
[-2, 4, -3, -5]
-2, -3, 4, -5




From __peter__ at web.de  Mon Apr 27 10:28:30 2015
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Mon, 27 Apr 2015 16:28:30 +0200
Subject: Wrote a memoize function: I do not mind feedback
References: <87h9s1zoap.fsf@Equus.decebal.nl>
Message-ID: <mhlh2f$plv$2@ger.gmane.org>

Cecil Westerhof wrote:

> I started again with Python. In Clojure you have memoize. I thought it
> nice to have this in Python also. So I wrote it. With a Fibonacci
> function to show the usefulness.
> You can find it here:
>     https://github.com/CecilWesterhof/PythonLibrary
> 
> I love to hear what you think of it.
> 
> And ideas for other functionalities are welcome also. ?bung macht den
> Meister.

See also: 

https://docs.python.org/dev/library/functools.html#functools.lru_cache

A bit hard to find unless you already know it's there.



From maxischmeii at gmail.com  Mon Apr 27 10:42:17 2015
From: maxischmeii at gmail.com (Maxime S)
Date: Mon, 27 Apr 2015 14:42:17 +0000
Subject: Function decorator having arguments is complicated
In-Reply-To: <CAFTm5Ru5NbFOtLPoVSPujeakrGawdHXjNkWJOVs1XrvBNnOUOQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAFTm5Ru5NbFOtLPoVSPujeakrGawdHXjNkWJOVs1XrvBNnOUOQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAGqiJR-94qqT3jvB+mKLadN_xr2PjfEoje_k8XV711GMTZwvuQ@mail.gmail.com>

Le lun. 27 avr. 2015 ? 04:39, Makoto Kuwata <kwa at kuwata-lab.com> a ?crit :
>
> If function decorator notation could take arguments,
> decorator definition would be more simple:
>
>   def multiply(func, n):
>     def newfunc(*args, **kwargs):
>       return n * func(*args, **kwargs)
>     return newfunc
>
>   @multiply 4      # ex: @decorator arg1, arg2, arg3
>   def f1(x, y):
>     return x+y
>
>
> How do you think about this idea?
>

David Beazley has a nice trick [1] to allow optional argument in decorators:

def logged(func=None, level=logging.DEBUG, message=None):
    if func is None:
        return partial(logged, level=level, message=message)

    @wraps(func)
    def wrapper(*args, **kwargs):
        log.log(level, message)
        return func(*args, **kwargs)
    return wrapper

I think that solve your problem nicely, and that it is quite readable.

[1] Amongst a heap of other cool tricks, in his Python Cookbook

Regards,

Maxime
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/attachments/20150427/f8f8c22e/attachment.html>

From auriocus at gmx.de  Mon Apr 27 10:54:32 2015
From: auriocus at gmx.de (Christian Gollwitzer)
Date: Mon, 27 Apr 2015 16:54:32 +0200
Subject: Best GUI for Python
In-Reply-To: <553de205$0$11128$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
References: <87h9s311r6.fsf@Equus.decebal.nl>
 <553cffc2$0$12998$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <85d22qk54u.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
 <mailman.29.1430089600.3680.python-list@python.org>
 <mhkme8$4gd$1@dont-email.me> <553de205$0$11128$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <mhlihb$c9q$1@dont-email.me>

Am 27.04.15 um 09:15 schrieb Steven D'Aprano:
> On Monday 27 April 2015 16:55, Christian Gollwitzer wrote:
>
>> YMMV. Is non-BMP needed for any living non-esoteric language? I agree
>> that it is a big flaw, but still is useful for very many projects.
>
> Yes.
>
> The Unicode Supplementary Multilingual Planes (SMPs) are used for rare but
> still current East Asian characters (which means that some of your Chinese
> users may not be able to write their names without it), also some
> mathematics symbols (okay, that's *slightly* esoteric), as well as emoji.

OK current Chinese characters count in. Were these available in 
pre-unicode 16bit encodings? If not, how did they cope? Not rying to 
defend the BMP, but still wondering whether this is a new issue due to 
the switch from 16bit to unicode, or if people can finally use all 
characters thanks to unicode (software with full support). Emoji and 
rare math is somewhat more esoteric (given the limited codepoint space)

> None of those uses are critical (unless you have a lot of Chinese users) but
> supporting the SMPs should not be considered optional.

I fully agree. Full unicode is one of the goals for Tcl9, but Tcl/Tk is 
missing manpower to actually implement that stuff (and people with 
skills in unicode platform APIs)

	Christian




From steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info  Mon Apr 27 10:55:14 2015
From: steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: Tue, 28 Apr 2015 00:55:14 +1000
Subject: Question Installing latest Python
References: <70cf8ca0-beea-4f01-b962-beab1d54d2fd@googlegroups.com>
 <553cfec1$0$12998$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <c9c7c7ae-e5d8-4340-94fa-7216b353fc39@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <553e4dd4$0$13004$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

On Mon, 27 Apr 2015 01:11 am, ?????? ??????????????? wrote:

> ?? ???????, 26 ???????? 2015 - 6:05:50 ?.?. UTC+3, ? ??????? Steven
> D'Aprano ??????:
>> On Mon, 27 Apr 2015 01:00 am, ?????? ??????????????? wrote:
>> 
>> > Hello,
>> > 
>> > Can you please tell me how to install latest Python 3.4.x without
>> > disturbing the other default python v2.7.5 intallation that i currently
>> > have on my VPS server and access it as Python 3?
>> > 
>> > Thank you.
>>> Not unless you tell us more about your setup.
>> What operating system? Linux, OS X, Unix, Windows?
>> 32-bit or 64-bit OS?
>> Do you have root/Administrator access to the machine?
>> If you are running Windows, do you have a C compiler?
>> Have you read the instructions on the Python web site?
>> 
>> --
>> Steven
> 
> 
> Yes, sure:
> 
> CentOS 7.1
> x64 bit
> Root Access to the VPS

(1) Go here:

https://www.python.org/downloads/release/python-342/

(2) Choose the source distribution you want. Save it to your hard drive on
the server you will be working on.

(3) Unpack the file. Do you need help with unpacking?

(4) cd into the unpacked directory. Read the README file. Any questions?

(5) Run these three commands from the unpacked directory as a regular user,
not root:

    ./configure
    make
    make test


(6) Take careful note of any errors from those commands. Some warnings and
errors may be harmless. Feel free to ask about them here. You may prefer to
ignore normal output and only see errors:

    ./configure > /dev/null
    make > /dev/null
    make test > /dev/null


If there are any errors you do not understand, STOP! Read the README file
again. Does that tell you how to fix the problem? If not, ask for help
before proceeding.


(7) When you are satisfied that everything is okay run this:

    sudo make altinstall


or if you prefer:

    su 
    make altinstall


(8) Test that everything works as expected by running these two commands:

    python -c "import sys; print sys.executable"

    python3.4 -c "import sys; print(sys.executable)"


You should see something like this:

/bin/python2.7
/usr/local/bin/python3.4




-- 
Steven



From ethan at stoneleaf.us  Mon Apr 27 10:58:37 2015
From: ethan at stoneleaf.us (Ethan Furman)
Date: Mon, 27 Apr 2015 07:58:37 -0700
Subject: Function decorator having arguments is complicated
In-Reply-To: <CAGqiJR-94qqT3jvB+mKLadN_xr2PjfEoje_k8XV711GMTZwvuQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAFTm5Ru5NbFOtLPoVSPujeakrGawdHXjNkWJOVs1XrvBNnOUOQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAGqiJR-94qqT3jvB+mKLadN_xr2PjfEoje_k8XV711GMTZwvuQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20150427145837.GF32422@stoneleaf.us>

On 04/27, Maxime S wrote:
> Le lun. 27 avr. 2015 ? 04:39, Makoto Kuwata <kwa at kuwata-lab.com> a ?crit :
> >
> > If function decorator notation could take arguments,
> > decorator definition would be more simple:
> >
> >   def multiply(func, n):
> >     def newfunc(*args, **kwargs):
> >       return n * func(*args, **kwargs)
> >     return newfunc
> >
> >   @multiply 4      # ex: @decorator arg1, arg2, arg3
> >   def f1(x, y):
> >     return x+y
> >
> >
> > How do you think about this idea?
> >
> 
> David Beazley has a nice trick [1] to allow optional argument in decorators:
> 
> def logged(func=None, level=logging.DEBUG, message=None):
>     if func is None:
>         return partial(logged, level=level, message=message)
> 
>     @wraps(func)
>     def wrapper(*args, **kwargs):
>         log.log(level, message)
>         return func(*args, **kwargs)
>     return wrapper

That is a cool trick, thanks for sharing!

--
~Ethan~


From cloudneozero at gmail.com  Mon Apr 27 11:47:43 2015
From: cloudneozero at gmail.com (Ark)
Date: Mon, 27 Apr 2015 10:47:43 -0500
Subject: Testing scheduling
Message-ID: <CAGpyR_FSNf+g1bu4-8q73M35LBoHB81hNrufHzVuNON77WxWsg@mail.gmail.com>

Hi everyone.
I'm trying to test scheduling with asyncio. I have a function that executes
call_later to run a method later in the future. Basically, what I'm trying
to do is what you do in Twisted with the method callLater of a fictional
Clock, to simulate time passage with the advance method.

class ClientCalculationTestCase(unittest.TestCase):
    def setUp(self):
        self.tr = proto_helpers.StringTransportWithDisconnection()
        self.clock = task.Clock()
        self.proto = RemoteCalculationClient()
        self.tr.protocol = self.proto
        self.proto.callLater = self.clock.callLater
        self.proto.makeConnection(self.tr)

    def test_timeout(self):
        d = self.proto.add(9, 4)
        self.assertEqual(self.tr.value(), 'add 9 4\r\n')
        self.clock.advance(self.proto.timeOut)
        return self.assertFailure(d, ClientTimeoutError)


Is there any way to do this with asyncio?. Thanks for any help provided.
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/attachments/20150427/41bde2c6/attachment.html>

From n at nspam.net  Mon Apr 27 12:22:05 2015
From: n at nspam.net (Javier)
Date: Mon, 27 Apr 2015 16:22:05 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Clize 3.0b1: An argument parser that draws a CLI from your
 function sigature
References: <mailman.40.1430125783.3680.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <mhlnnd$8sm$1@speranza.aioe.org>

It would be nice if it could automatically generate the python code
for 'clizing a function', i.e., from the example in
https://clize.readthedocs.org/en/latest/

def hello_world(name=None, no_capitalize=False):
    ...

being able to do

clize.generate_py_code(hello_world)

which would return something in the fashion of
"""
if __name__ == '__main__':
    ###process sys.argv
    ...
    name=sys.argv[1]
    no_capitalize=...
    hello_world(name=name, no_capitalize=no_capitalize)
"""
    
Sometimes you may want to eliminate dependencies.


From steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info  Mon Apr 27 12:31:01 2015
From: steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: Tue, 28 Apr 2015 02:31:01 +1000
Subject: Best GUI for Python
References: <87h9s311r6.fsf@Equus.decebal.nl>
 <553cffc2$0$12998$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <85d22qk54u.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
 <mailman.29.1430089600.3680.python-list@python.org>
 <mhkme8$4gd$1@dont-email.me> <553de205$0$11128$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
 <mhlihb$c9q$1@dont-email.me>
Message-ID: <553e6446$0$12998$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

On Tue, 28 Apr 2015 12:54 am, Christian Gollwitzer wrote:

> Am 27.04.15 um 09:15 schrieb Steven D'Aprano:
>> On Monday 27 April 2015 16:55, Christian Gollwitzer wrote:
>>
>>> YMMV. Is non-BMP needed for any living non-esoteric language? I agree
>>> that it is a big flaw, but still is useful for very many projects.
>>
>> Yes.
>>
>> The Unicode Supplementary Multilingual Planes (SMPs) are used for rare
>> but still current East Asian characters (which means that some of your
>> Chinese users may not be able to write their names without it), also some
>> mathematics symbols (okay, that's *slightly* esoteric), as well as emoji.
> 
> OK current Chinese characters count in. Were these available in
> pre-unicode 16bit encodings? 

Certainly not :-)

Unicode currently encodes over 74,000 CJK (Chinese/Japanese/Korean)
ideographs, which is comfortably larger than 2**16, so no 16-bit encoding
can handle the complete range of CJK characters. In fact, Unicode has
projected that at least another five thousand characters will be added in
version 8, and probably more beyond that.


> If not, how did they cope? 

Mostly badly :-)

Actually, that's probably unfair. The situation wasn't as bad as it could
have been for a number of reasons:

- In Korea, hanja (literally "Chinese characters") are mostly used for older
historical documents and some names, so most new documents would be written
entirely in hangul instead of Chinese ideographs.

- In Japan, kanji (also literally "Chinese characters") are not the only
option either. There is a choice between kanji and three other systems:

  hiragana is used for syllables and words for which there is either 
  no kanji available, or the author doesn't know the kanji;

  katakana is used for foreign words, loan words, scientific and 
  technical terms, the names of companies, for emphasis, and 
  onomatopoeia (words that sound like the sound of the thing they
  describe, e.g. bling, splash, pow, fizz, cock-a-doodle-do, oink);

  r?maji (literally "Roman letters"), although it is rare to use
  that to write Japanese; it's mostly used for communication with
  non-Japanese, and as an input system for entering kanji.

- 16 bits is enough to do the most common Chinese characters. For less
common characters, people can re-word the phrase, use alternative spelling,
or use a custom font or image, depending on how important the exact correct
character is considered.

- When it comes to names, sometimes people can use a similar character. The
nearest approximation in Latin languages would be if the preferred spelling
of your name was Z?e Wei? and you wrote Zoe Weiss instead.

- Vietnam hasn't used Chinese characters (N?m) since the 1920s, except for
limited use as decorative and ceremonial uses.


Disclaimer: nearly all of the above is taken from Wikipedia, my personal
knowledge of Chinese and Japanese is limited to "yum cha" and "banzai".
Everything else is all Greek to me :-) Consequently actual speakers of CJK
languages may have different opinions.


> Not rying to  
> defend the BMP, but still wondering whether this is a new issue due to
> the switch from 16bit to unicode, or if people can finally use all
> characters thanks to unicode (software with full support). Emoji and
> rare math is somewhat more esoteric (given the limited codepoint space)

No, it is not a new issue. Legacy East-Asian encodings have the same
problems. It will probably take many more years before the entire CJK
character set is added to Unicode, simply because the characters left to
add are obscure and rare. Some may never be added. E.g. in 2007 Taiwan
withdrew a submission to add 6,545 characters used as personal names as
they were deemed to no longer be in use.



-- 
Steven



From invalid at invalid.invalid  Mon Apr 27 13:02:27 2015
From: invalid at invalid.invalid (Grant Edwards)
Date: Mon, 27 Apr 2015 17:02:27 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Best GUI for Python
References: <87h9s311r6.fsf@Equus.decebal.nl>
 <553cffc2$0$12998$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <mailman.28.1430080030.3680.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <mhlq33$c52$1@reader1.panix.com>

On 2015-04-26, Ben Finney <ben+python at benfinney.id.au> wrote:
> Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info> writes:
>
>> Tkinter is easier to use, as it is standard with Python. So long as
>> you have Tk/Tcl installed on your computer, Tkinter should work fine.
>>
>> However, Tkinter probably looks a bit more old fashioned.
>
> It doesn't have to. By using the newer ?tkinter.ttk? library
><URL:https://docs.python.org/3/library/tkinter.ttk.html>, the GUI will
> use native look-and-feel widgets.

I've tried using ttk, and it's not too bad on Windows, but it doesn't
seem to help a jot on Linux. Most Linux users seem to be able to cope
without a problem, but the old gray Motify look seems a bit dated.
When I do try to use ttk on Linux, I just seem to end up with a
mixture of two different completely non-native vaguely retro-looking
widgets.

-- 
Grant Edwards               grant.b.edwards        Yow! All this time I've
                                  at               been VIEWING a RUSSIAN
                              gmail.com            MIDGET SODOMIZE a HOUSECAT!


From buddingrose11 at gmail.com  Mon Apr 27 14:33:56 2015
From: buddingrose11 at gmail.com (buddingrose11 at gmail.com)
Date: Mon, 27 Apr 2015 11:33:56 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Is there a python library to parse C++ code file?
In-Reply-To: <mailman.3311.1142578678.27775.python-list@python.org>
References: <1142566046.428804.142440@p10g2000cwp.googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.3311.1142578678.27775.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <e98a6317-2c87-4561-aade-17ed8aa94a45@googlegroups.com>

I want to parse a C++ code to get class names, method names, the blocks inside method, methods inside method, identify recursive call, methods of class(outside the class), and relationships of classes. How to do it in python? Is there any library to do it?


From fomcl at yahoo.com  Mon Apr 27 16:35:18 2015
From: fomcl at yahoo.com (Albert-Jan Roskam)
Date: Mon, 27 Apr 2015 20:35:18 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Wrote a memoize function: I do not mind feedback
In-Reply-To: <mhlh2f$plv$2@ger.gmane.org>
References: <87h9s1zoap.fsf@Equus.decebal.nl> <mhlh2f$plv$2@ger.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <1075012242.2694216.1430166918744.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com>

----- Original Message -----
> From: Peter Otten <__peter__ at web.de>
> To: python-list at python.org
> Cc: 
> Sent: Monday, April 27, 2015 4:28 PM
> Subject: Re: Wrote a memoize function: I do not mind feedback
> 
> Cecil Westerhof wrote:
> 
>>  I started again with Python. In Clojure you have memoize. I thought it
>>  nice to have this in Python also. So I wrote it. With a Fibonacci
>>  function to show the usefulness.
>>  You can find it here:
>>     https://github.com/CecilWesterhof/PythonLibrary
>> 
>>  I love to hear what you think of it.
>> 
>>  And ideas for other functionalities are welcome also. ?bung macht den
>>  Meister.
> 
> See also: 
> 
> https://docs.python.org/dev/library/functools.html#functools.lru_cache
> 
> A bit hard to find unless you already know it's there.

If you Google for memoization decorator, you will easily find many more implementations. Not 100 percent sure, but I think the LRU cache decorator was not exactly light weight. I also like this one from Martelli's Python Cookbook, where he uses a mutable default argument {a dictionary} to implement memoization. I believe I went like this:


def some_func(arg, _memoize={}):
    try:
        return _memoize[arg]
    except KeyError:
        result = some_expensive_operation(arg)
        _memoize[arg] = result
        return result


From auriocus at gmx.de  Mon Apr 27 17:17:53 2015
From: auriocus at gmx.de (Christian Gollwitzer)
Date: Mon, 27 Apr 2015 23:17:53 +0200
Subject: Best GUI for Python
In-Reply-To: <mhlq33$c52$1@reader1.panix.com>
References: <87h9s311r6.fsf@Equus.decebal.nl>
 <553cffc2$0$12998$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <mailman.28.1430080030.3680.python-list@python.org>
 <mhlq33$c52$1@reader1.panix.com>
Message-ID: <mhm903$c7c$1@dont-email.me>

Am 27.04.15 um 19:02 schrieb Grant Edwards:
> On 2015-04-26, Ben Finney <ben+python at benfinney.id.au> wrote:
>> Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info> writes:
>>
>>> Tkinter is easier to use, as it is standard with Python. So long as
>>> you have Tk/Tcl installed on your computer, Tkinter should work fine.
>>>
>>> However, Tkinter probably looks a bit more old fashioned.
>>
>> It doesn't have to. By using the newer ?tkinter.ttk? library
>> <URL:https://docs.python.org/3/library/tkinter.ttk.html>, the GUI will
>> use native look-and-feel widgets.
>
> I've tried using ttk, and it's not too bad on Windows, but it doesn't
> seem to help a jot on Linux. Most Linux users seem to be able to cope
> without a problem, but the old gray Motify look seems a bit dated.
> When I do try to use ttk on Linux, I just seem to end up with a
> mixture of two different completely non-native vaguely retro-looking
> widgets.

Yes, the default theme is terrible on Linux (Mac & Windows uses native 
widgets). There are additional themes available, which are buried in 
some packages and a bit difficult to install, but give reasonable 
approximations to the QT look; I'm talking about plastik, for instance 
http://wiki.tcl.tk/24094 (1st picture - the layout of the test is 
terrible, but the widgets do look good). For some reason I've got no 
insights, these themes are very slow (they are based on displaying 
pre-rendered PNG images for the widget bits and pieces).
Yet another possibility are the tileQT and tileGTK packages, which 
render the widgets using QT and GTK, but of course this introduces these 
dependencies and it might be simpler to just use QT or GTK natively.

	Christian

>



From ron3200 at gmail.com  Mon Apr 27 19:55:10 2015
From: ron3200 at gmail.com (Ron Adam)
Date: Mon, 27 Apr 2015 19:55:10 -0400
Subject: An experiment with blocks of object code and other meta  ideas.
Message-ID: <mhmi8v$pa$1@ger.gmane.org>


I've been playing around with a experimental script language that executes 
object code lists directly and am looking for others who might like to help.

The first version was written in python.  The original idea came from 
wondering if it is possible to replace python's byte code with nested 
object code lists.  As I worked on it, it became clear it would also make a 
nice script language on it's own so I decided to test how it would work 
independently of python first.

Currently it's implemented in scheme so it can be compiled to C and a stand 
alone executable.

The design is simple enough that converting it to use python objects and 
using the python C API should be fairly straight forward.

I can update the original written-in-python version if anyone is 
interested. It's quite a bit behind the scheme version right now.  It might 
make an interesting module.

Here's a few command line examples...

==> def [hello] [
...     (print "Hello World\n")
... ]
==> (hello)
Hello World

==> set a 23/41
==> set b 3/2
==> (+ a b)
169/82

==> for x [1 2 3 4 5] [
...    (print x "\n")
... ]
1
2
3
4
5

==> set conds [
...     (< a 6)
...     (== b 2)
...     not-done
... ]
==> let [a b not-done] [7 2 0]
==> (or conds)
1
==> (and conds)
0


And of course it does execute files too. :-)

{-------------------------- guess-my-number.mta

     GUESS MY NUMBER GAME

     The computer picks a number and you
     try to guess it.

-----------------------------------------------}

def [guess] [
     set n (random 10)
     set msg "Guess a number from 0 to 10: "
     loop [
         (print msg)
         catch error
             [set g (int (read-line))]
         if (not (empty? error))
             [set msg "What?, guess again: "]
         elif (> g n)
             [set msg "Too high, guess again: "]
         elif (< g n)
             [set msg "Too low, guess again: "]
         else
             [break]
     ]
     (print "Good guess!\n")
]

(guess)


I've been told it looks like a combination of scheme, tcl, and python.

This script-language tests a number of ideas I've been interested in.

Keywords are objects too!  They can be bound to names and executed later in 
another place or returned by expressions to be executed.

Blocks are nested lists of object code that can be passed around.  Actually 
programs are nested lists of object codes. It's just the outer most block.

These features make it an interesting meta language to experiment with.


If you think you may be interested in helping with this project, (It's open 
source), you can find it here.

     https://github.com/Ronald-Adam/magic-meta

     https://github.com/Ronald-Adam/magic-meta/wiki/1.-Home

I'm hoping some of you may be interested in helping out as a group project 
with the possibility of bringing some of the ideas back to python in some 
form.  Possibly as a script language that can be used in projects.

There is lots of opportunities to make improvements and additions as there 
are zero users currently.

It's still very early in it's development, so don't expect too much at this 
time.

Cheers,
    Ron



From rosuav at gmail.com  Mon Apr 27 20:03:36 2015
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Tue, 28 Apr 2015 10:03:36 +1000
Subject: Clize 3.0b1: An argument parser that draws a CLI from your
 function sigature
In-Reply-To: <CANUJvPWSO8bW3mNh1_wCH6qcoGtUE=9zJ71acdga8d0vViZZ8Q@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CANUJvPWSO8bW3mNh1_wCH6qcoGtUE=9zJ71acdga8d0vViZZ8Q@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmqbnupbzoKA20gMAT9pnkH1rr5XAsBLeqrjtFwC=6-2Ug@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Apr 27, 2015 at 7:02 PM, Yann Kaiser <kaiser.yann at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hello everyone!
>
> After a few years in development, I am proud to say Clize is landing its
> feet again and is now in beta for an upcoming release.
>
> You can try it out using    pip install --user clize=3.0b1    and you can
> browse the docs at    https://clize.readthedocs.org/
>
> For those who'd like an explanation before clicking links, here's Clize's
> 5-bullet point explanation:
>
> * Command-line interfaces are created by passing functions to `clize.run`.
> * Parameter types are deduced from the functions' parameters.
> * A ``--help`` message is generated from your docstrings. (Why does this
> still need to be a bullet point?)
> * Decorators can be used to reuse functionality across functions.
> * Clize can be extended with new parameter behavior.

Interesting. I've also been working on a simpler arg handling module;
maybe we can work together. The goals for mine are:

* Each function should be as independent as possible.
* Minimize repetition (of names, descriptions, etc)
* Keep everything in the function signature
* Simplify the basic and obvious usages

https://github.com/Rosuav/docstringargs
https://pypi.python.org/pypi/docstringargs/

There's a demo file in the source repo, plus here are a couple of
actual usage examples:

https://github.com/Rosuav/LetMeKnow/blob/master/letmeknow.py
https://github.com/MikeiLL/appension/blob/master/fore/database.py

The latter is an existing module in an existing project, and it grew a
command-line interface with minimal changes, eg:

https://github.com/MikeiLL/appension/commit/566f195

Can we merge our plans and make a single module that's more likely to
be maintained long-term? No point over-duplicating!

ChrisA


From steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info  Mon Apr 27 20:29:07 2015
From: steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: Tue, 28 Apr 2015 10:29:07 +1000
Subject: Is there a python library to parse C++ code file?
References: <1142566046.428804.142440@p10g2000cwp.googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.3311.1142578678.27775.python-list@python.org>
 <e98a6317-2c87-4561-aade-17ed8aa94a45@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <553ed454$0$12998$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

On Tue, 28 Apr 2015 04:33 am, buddingrose11 at gmail.com wrote:

> I want to parse a C++ code to get class names, method names, the blocks
> inside method, methods inside method, identify recursive call, methods of
> class(outside the class), and relationships of classes. How to do it in
> python? Is there any library to do it?

Have you googled for "C++ parse python"? What results did you find?

https://duckduckgo.com/?q=parse%20C%2B%2B%20python


C++ is notorious for being so complex that it is very difficult to parse
correctly. I believe that most so-called C++ parsers fail to parse it
correctly (obviously some do, otherwise there would be no working C++
compilers).

Perhaps SWIG may be able to help you? It claims to be able to export the
parse tree of the C++ code as XML, which you could then analyse in Python.

http://www.swig.org/compare.html
http://www.swig.org/article_cpp.html



-- 
Steven



From p_s_d_a_s_i_l_v_a_ns at netcabo.pt  Mon Apr 27 20:47:09 2015
From: p_s_d_a_s_i_l_v_a_ns at netcabo.pt (Paulo da Silva)
Date: Tue, 28 Apr 2015 01:47:09 +0100
Subject: pypy3 kubuntu 14.04
References: <mhhoda$3tf$1@speranza.aioe.org>
Message-ID: <mhmlac$jmr$1@speranza.aioe.org>

On 26-04-2015 05:09, Paulo da Silva wrote:
> Is there anybody using pypy3 in *ubuntu 14.04?
> 
> I installed ppa:pypy/ppa but I still cannot see any pypy3!
> All refs to pypy (using aptitude) show in the comments python 2.7!
> 
> Thanks for any help.
> 
For those who may be interested ...:

OK, I found a binary tar in the download site that only needs to be
unpacked in /opt, for ex., and then make a link to pypy3 somewhere in
the unpacked dir from a dir in the PATH as /usr/local/bin.

Unfortunateley numpy is not available for pypy3! So, not much useful for
me :-(



From kaiser.yann at gmail.com  Mon Apr 27 22:45:30 2015
From: kaiser.yann at gmail.com (Yann Kaiser)
Date: Tue, 28 Apr 2015 02:45:30 +0000
Subject: Clize 3.0b1: An argument parser that draws a CLI from your
 function sigature
In-Reply-To: <CAPTjJmqbnupbzoKA20gMAT9pnkH1rr5XAsBLeqrjtFwC=6-2Ug@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CANUJvPWSO8bW3mNh1_wCH6qcoGtUE=9zJ71acdga8d0vViZZ8Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAPTjJmqbnupbzoKA20gMAT9pnkH1rr5XAsBLeqrjtFwC=6-2Ug@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CANUJvPVCnJ146W5Jm-=L4ButFudZzPear3DpAzVbmbQGU7b1cw@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, 27 Apr 2015 at 17:04 Chris Angelico <rosuav at gmail.com> wrote:

> On Mon, Apr 27, 2015 at 7:02 PM, Yann Kaiser <kaiser.yann at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> > Hello everyone!
> >
> > After a few years in development, I am proud to say Clize is landing its
> > feet again and is now in beta for an upcoming release.
> >
> > You can try it out using    pip install --user clize=3.0b1    and you can
> > browse the docs at    https://clize.readthedocs.org/
> >
> > For those who'd like an explanation before clicking links, here's Clize's
> > 5-bullet point explanation:
> >
> > * Command-line interfaces are created by passing functions to
> `clize.run`.
> > * Parameter types are deduced from the functions' parameters.
> > * A ``--help`` message is generated from your docstrings. (Why does this
> > still need to be a bullet point?)
> > * Decorators can be used to reuse functionality across functions.
> > * Clize can be extended with new parameter behavior.
>
> Interesting. I've also been working on a simpler arg handling module;
> maybe we can work together. The goals for mine are:
>
> * Each function should be as independent as possible.
>

In Clize, commands are also just regular functions which have the desired
amount of keyword-only parameters and annotations. They can still be run
individually, be tested, and so forth.


> * Minimize repetition (of names, descriptions, etc)
>

I try to minimize repetition, but the reality of things is that a parameter
name could be repeated up to 4 times in Clize:

* In the function's parameter list
* In the function's docstring
* If named explicitly, in a @-kwoargs decorator (not needed with Py3)
* In an annotate decorator (again, not needed with Py2 compatibility isn't
desired)

Two of these wouldn't be relevant in a Python 3-only world (if it's just a
shell script replacement, you can probably pretend to be in one for a
moment), the remainder being normal things in a function. So I'm not doing
too badly there. Descriptions are of course only written in the description
:-)

In addition, I took up the goal of helping minimize repetition in client
code behavior through better support for decorators (which is really cool,
by the way!)


> * Keep everything in the function signature
>

I started taking this at heart with 3.0, after seeing the rather disgusting
constructs that had to be used in Clize 2.x for specifying aliases and
value converters. Now everything is annotations. Nothing in the docstring
specifies behavior, and it isn't even read at all until --help is
triggered. I intend to keep docstrings behavior-free because, well, they're
strictly for documentation IMO.

One of the last remains of the old "give parameters to Clize about what
your function's parameters does" stuff, a flag to pass the executable name
to the function that's being run, was in fact changed in 3.0b1 to be an
annotation instead, giving it more flexibility (you can annotate whichever
parameter you want rather than being forced to use the first one).

What I mean to say, is that I am definitely committed to keeping everything
in the function signature. Probably even more than you :-)


> * Simplify the basic and obvious usages
>

That's where Clize started and I intend to keep simple usages simple.
One could say having to use @autokwoargs for turning parameters with
default values into keyword-only parameters, but I feel it was necessary
for consistency with the presence of actual keyword-only parameters.

Overall we're agreed on all these goals.

I will add that I'm taking up extensibility as a goal as of Clize 3.0.
clize.parameters.argument_decorator[1] wasn't originally by idea and was
first implemented by someone else using the public API.

[1]
http://clize.readthedocs.org/en/latest/compositing.html#using-a-composed-function-to-process-arguments-to-a-parameter

What it's clearly lacking when compared to your parser is better
docstrings, haha :-) The parser docs alleviate that a bit, but the parser
can be hard to navigate at first.

https://github.com/Rosuav/docstringargs
> https://pypi.python.org/pypi/docstringargs/
>
> There's a demo file in the source repo, plus here are a couple of
> actual usage examples:
>
> https://github.com/Rosuav/LetMeKnow/blob/master/letmeknow.py
> https://github.com/MikeiLL/appension/blob/master/fore/database.py
>
> The latter is an existing module in an existing project, and it grew a
> command-line interface with minimal changes, eg:
>
> https://github.com/MikeiLL/appension/commit/566f195
>
> Can we merge our plans and make a single module that's more likely to
> be maintained long-term? No point over-duplicating!
>

Agreed. I'm open to have more maintainers and to take input, but I have to
admit that at this stage of development, I'm quite attached to Clize's
existing codebase and features (although I'm always open to refactoring,
and the test suite helps with that).


> ChrisA
> --
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/attachments/20150428/626f6459/attachment.html>

From Seymore4Head at Hotmail.invalid  Mon Apr 27 23:18:10 2015
From: Seymore4Head at Hotmail.invalid (Seymore4Head)
Date: Mon, 27 Apr 2015 23:18:10 -0400
Subject: Tit for tat
References: <admqjato7hkbnh4kp8qeeepn7lcp0ck18e@4ax.com>
 <mailman.30.1430091619.3680.python-list@python.org>
 <0p4rjadeqf1fb361dbkfatgpb9s0v266po@4ax.com>
 <1aa6b45b-8c50-48f8-ae01-86a4bf8a838f@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <0uutjat2909gkj1bkh4h5kvko4r11tm359@4ax.com>

On Sun, 26 Apr 2015 22:50:03 -0700 (PDT), John Ladasky
<john_ladasky at sbcglobal.net> wrote:

>On Sunday, April 26, 2015 at 6:41:08 PM UTC-7, Seymore4Head wrote:
> 
>> Richard Dawkins explains with passion the idea of game theory and tit
>> for tat, or why cooperation with strangers is often a strong strategy.
>> 
>> He talks of a computer program tournament.  I don't know what I could
>> say that would be more interesting than just watching the video.
>
>Well, I'm not sure sure what any of this has to do with Python -- but since I know something about the subject, I'll reply.
>
>That Richard Dawkins video is quite old -- it would appear to be from the middle 1980's.  Douglas Hofstadter's 1985 book, _Metamagical_Themas_, covered this exact same material.  A game called the "Iterated Prisoner's Dilemma" is played (I'll abbreviate it as IPD).  Humans can play, of course, but in this case it is played by algorithms.  An algorithm called "Tit for Tat" is surprisingly simple and robust.  When meeting a new contestant, Tit for Tat plays nice in round 1; and on every subsequent round, it plays however that opponent played the last time.  
>
>Evolutionary biologists like Dawkins point to the success of Tit for Tat in IPD as a model of how cooperation could emerge in a population of selfish organisms.  Now, in a round-robin IPD game, Tit for Tat wins pretty handily.  But in some other scenarios, as I recall, Tit for Tat is not a runaway winner.
>
>Suppose that instead of each strategy playing EVERY other, each strategy inhabits a "territory" in a space, and each strategy only plays its neighbors.  In "rough neighborhoods", Tit for Tat can lose out to more punitive strategies.  If Tit for Tat is around more cooperative strategies, it thrives.  The boundaries between good neighborhoods and bad are chaotic.  Tit for Tat more or less holds the borders, but usually can't clean out a bad neighborhood.
>
>This finding came out many years after the Hofstadter and Dawkins reports, so it's not covered in the video.  My reference to the idea is a 1997 paper entitled "The Undecidability of the Spatialized Prisoner's Dilemma," by Patrick Grim (http://link.springer.com/article/10.1023%2FA%3A1004959623042).

In the past, I have had some measure of success with the Toot for Tail
strategy.


From rosuav at gmail.com  Mon Apr 27 23:27:28 2015
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Tue, 28 Apr 2015 13:27:28 +1000
Subject: Clize 3.0b1: An argument parser that draws a CLI from your
 function sigature
In-Reply-To: <CANUJvPVCnJ146W5Jm-=L4ButFudZzPear3DpAzVbmbQGU7b1cw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CANUJvPWSO8bW3mNh1_wCH6qcoGtUE=9zJ71acdga8d0vViZZ8Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAPTjJmqbnupbzoKA20gMAT9pnkH1rr5XAsBLeqrjtFwC=6-2Ug@mail.gmail.com>
 <CANUJvPVCnJ146W5Jm-=L4ButFudZzPear3DpAzVbmbQGU7b1cw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmqSni3m1nDvQgDmVmm5wgWY=GYM3DRqHeVGHA8tHfQ-uw@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Apr 28, 2015 at 12:45 PM, Yann Kaiser <kaiser.yann at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Mon, 27 Apr 2015 at 17:04 Chris Angelico <rosuav at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Interesting. I've also been working on a simpler arg handling module;
>> maybe we can work together. The goals for mine are:
>>
>> * Each function should be as independent as possible.
>
>
> In Clize, commands are also just regular functions which have the desired
> amount of keyword-only parameters and annotations. They can still be run
> individually, be tested, and so forth.

To implement something like the examples I gave, though, you'd need to
enumerate the subcommand functions at the end. I'd like to be able to
not do that.

My inspiration came partly from Flask. I can build up a web site with
several separate files, where one file might define routes for all the
human-accessible content (the stuff that's designed for a web browser)
and a separate file could define the API endpoints (emitting JSON or
something). There's no need to have a single gathering point that
lists every function that needs to be called - they get squirreled
away by the decorator.

>> * Minimize repetition (of names, descriptions, etc)
>
>
> I try to minimize repetition, but the reality of things is that a parameter
> name could be repeated up to 4 times in Clize:
>
> * In the function's parameter list
> * In the function's docstring
> * If named explicitly, in a @-kwoargs decorator (not needed with Py3)
> * In an annotate decorator (again, not needed with Py2 compatibility isn't
> desired)
>
> Two of these wouldn't be relevant in a Python 3-only world (if it's just a
> shell script replacement, you can probably pretend to be in one for a
> moment), the remainder being normal things in a function. So I'm not doing
> too badly there. Descriptions are of course only written in the description
> :-)

A lot of my projects are Py3-only. I have no problem with that.

>> * Keep everything in the function signature
>
> I started taking this at heart with 3.0, after seeing the rather disgusting
> constructs that had to be used in Clize 2.x for specifying aliases and value
> converters. Now everything is annotations. Nothing in the docstring
> specifies behavior, and it isn't even read at all until --help is triggered.
> I intend to keep docstrings behavior-free because, well, they're strictly
> for documentation IMO.
>
> What I mean to say, is that I am definitely committed to keeping everything
> in the function signature. Probably even more than you :-)

:)

There's a spectrum of convenience:

1) The actual function signature - information that already exists.
Function and parameter names, basically.
2) Annotations, directly attached to the parameters.
3) Docstrings and decorators, adjacent to the 'def' statement.
4) Code elsewhere in the file.
5) Code or directives in a separate file.

Some of Clize stretches as far as level 4, and that's what I'd like to
pull up a bit. With docstringargs, the only things at level 4 are
generic setup - importing the module (unavoidable) and "if name is
main, do stuff" (also unavoidable unless you want to put in some major
MAJOR magic).

(I took this spectrum from the discussions surrounding PEP 484,
incidentally. I'm sure you won't be even *considering* having crucial
command-line parsing out in a separate file, but that's precisely what
type-hint stub files are.)

>> There's a demo file in the source repo, plus here are a couple of
>> actual usage examples:
>>
>> https://github.com/Rosuav/LetMeKnow/blob/master/letmeknow.py
>> https://github.com/MikeiLL/appension/blob/master/fore/database.py
>>
>> The latter is an existing module in an existing project, and it grew a
>> command-line interface with minimal changes, eg:
>>
>> https://github.com/MikeiLL/appension/commit/566f195
>>
>> Can we merge our plans and make a single module that's more likely to
>> be maintained long-term? No point over-duplicating!
>
>
> Agreed. I'm open to have more maintainers and to take input, but I have to
> admit that at this stage of development, I'm quite attached to Clize's
> existing codebase and features (although I'm always open to refactoring, and
> the test suite helps with that).

If Clize can implement something comparably simple to what I'm doing
in the above examples, I'd be happy to drop docstringargs in favour of
it. Basically, I didn't like how argparse code looked:

https://github.com/Rosuav/snippets/blob/master/snippets.py

(That file actually has a deliberate bug in it, which I intended to
use as a demo of 'git bisect', but so far, haven't had a chance to do
that with my students yet.)

Taking the 'put' subcommand as an example, we have these lines of code
to handle the CLI:

2: generic boilerplate (import)
10: function signature
11-15: docstring
33-35: generic boilerplate (setup)
39: repetition of function name and purpose
40-41: repetition of function arguments, now with their purposes
48-51: generic boilerplate (execution)
53: repetition of function name
54: repetition of function name
60-61: generic boilerplate (execution)

That's a lot of separate pieces. Here's the docstringargs equivalent:

https://github.com/Rosuav/snippets/blob/dsa/snippets.py

1-2: generic boilerplate (import/setup)
10: simple decorator
11: function signature
12-16: docstring
30-31: generic boilerplate (execution)

All the put-specific code is in one place - the signature, plus one
marker line above it, plus the docstring. It's not scattered all up
and down the entire program. Adding another command is simply a matter
of creating a new function. THAT is an important part of what I'm
looking for; I don't want to have to go dig through five different
places when I want to add or remove a subcommand.

Can you put together a Clize equivalent? I'm pretty sure it's going to
be remarkably close to what I want.

ChrisA


From steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info  Tue Apr 28 01:10:02 2015
From: steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: Tue, 28 Apr 2015 15:10:02 +1000
Subject: Best GUI for Python
References: <87h9s311r6.fsf@Equus.decebal.nl>
 <553cffc2$0$12998$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <85d22qk54u.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
 <mailman.29.1430089600.3680.python-list@python.org>
 <mhkme8$4gd$1@dont-email.me>
 <mailman.39.1430119356.3680.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <553f1630$0$12909$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

On Monday 27 April 2015 17:22, Chris Angelico wrote:

> This is a problem that won't just "go away". As more SMP blocks get
> assigned, more people will start using them, and get frustrated at
> your program for not letting them. (And why should an end user need to
> know the difference between ? and ?, that the second one works and
> the first doesn't?) Unless you're willing to wait for a Python that
> ships Tcl 9, Tkinter is a choice that restricts your end users.

I'm not really arguing with you, just giving a slightly difference of 
emphasis...

I don't think that failure to support the SMPs is a deal-breaker. Obviously, 
if you specifically need some subset of Unicode in the SMPs, say Phoenician, 
then it may be, but I'm just talking about general use. Given the generally 
poor support for non-ASCII characters many applications provide, any Unicode 
support is better than none.


-- 
Steve



From ethan at stoneleaf.us  Tue Apr 28 01:28:57 2015
From: ethan at stoneleaf.us (Ethan Furman)
Date: Mon, 27 Apr 2015 22:28:57 -0700
Subject: Clize 3.0b1: An argument parser that draws a CLI from your
 function sigature
In-Reply-To: <CAPTjJmqSni3m1nDvQgDmVmm5wgWY=GYM3DRqHeVGHA8tHfQ-uw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CANUJvPWSO8bW3mNh1_wCH6qcoGtUE=9zJ71acdga8d0vViZZ8Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAPTjJmqbnupbzoKA20gMAT9pnkH1rr5XAsBLeqrjtFwC=6-2Ug@mail.gmail.com>
 <CANUJvPVCnJ146W5Jm-=L4ButFudZzPear3DpAzVbmbQGU7b1cw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAPTjJmqSni3m1nDvQgDmVmm5wgWY=GYM3DRqHeVGHA8tHfQ-uw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20150428052856.GG32422@stoneleaf.us>

On 04/28, Chris Angelico wrote:

> That's a lot of separate pieces. Here's the docstringargs equivalent:
> 
> https://github.com/Rosuav/snippets/blob/dsa/snippets.py

Just for grins, here's that using Scription:

-- 8< --------------------------------------------------------------------
"""Store and retrieve snippets of text"""
from scription import *
import logging

# Set the log output file, and the log level 
logging.basicConfig(filename="snippets.log", level=logging.DEBUG)

data = {}

@Script()
def main():
    print('Result: {!r}'.format(script_command()))

@Command(
        name=('the name of the snippet', ),
        snippet=('the snippet text', ),
        )
def put(name, snippet):
    "Store a snippet with an associated name."
    logging.info("Storing({!r}, {!r})".format(name, snippet))
    data[name] = snippet
    return name, snippet

@Command(
        name=('the name of the snippet', ),
        )
def get(name):
    "Retrieve the snippet with a given name."
    logging.error("Retrieving({!r})".format(name))
    return data.get(name)

Main()
-- 8< --------------------------------------------------------------------

and a sample run with nothing selected:

-- 8< --------------------------------------------------------------------
$ python snippet
Store and retrieve snippets of text

snippet get NAME

    Retrieve the snippet with a given name.

    NAME   the name of the snippet    

snippet put NAME SNIPPET

    Store a snippet with an associated name.

    NAME      the name of the snippet    
    SNIPPET   the snippet text           
-- 8< --------------------------------------------------------------------


--
~Ethan~


From rosuav at gmail.com  Tue Apr 28 01:32:35 2015
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Tue, 28 Apr 2015 15:32:35 +1000
Subject: Best GUI for Python
In-Reply-To: <553f1630$0$12909$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
References: <87h9s311r6.fsf@Equus.decebal.nl>
 <553cffc2$0$12998$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <85d22qk54u.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
 <mailman.29.1430089600.3680.python-list@python.org>
 <mhkme8$4gd$1@dont-email.me>
 <mailman.39.1430119356.3680.python-list@python.org>
 <553f1630$0$12909$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmr6qjSvM4EjM_6Azpi_LT9WUY6fOo=P1qkHehWYwoXGQw@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Apr 28, 2015 at 3:10 PM, Steven D'Aprano
<steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info> wrote:
> On Monday 27 April 2015 17:22, Chris Angelico wrote:
>
>> This is a problem that won't just "go away". As more SMP blocks get
>> assigned, more people will start using them, and get frustrated at
>> your program for not letting them. (And why should an end user need to
>> know the difference between ? and ?, that the second one works and
>> the first doesn't?) Unless you're willing to wait for a Python that
>> ships Tcl 9, Tkinter is a choice that restricts your end users.
>
> I'm not really arguing with you, just giving a slightly difference of
> emphasis...
>
> I don't think that failure to support the SMPs is a deal-breaker. Obviously,
> if you specifically need some subset of Unicode in the SMPs, say Phoenician,
> then it may be, but I'm just talking about general use. Given the generally
> poor support for non-ASCII characters many applications provide, any Unicode
> support is better than none.

I agree that it isn't _in itself_ a deal-breaker; it's a choice, but
most choices restrict you, the programmer. Choosing to use Python
rather than C restricts what you can do easily (but so would the
converse choice); choosing to use SQLite3 restricts your ability to
alter tables; choosing to use PyGTK forces you to include an external
dependency. But choosing to use Tkinter restricts *your users* to
BMP-only. That's a consideration that takes a bit more thought to
evaluate; how bad is it? You can decide on the cost of a UTF-8 string
type by figuring out how often you need to know about character
lengths, but how can you know the cost of a UCS-2 font renderer?

That's why I would be inclined to avoid Tkinter. Not because UCS-2 is
a fundamental deal-breaker, but because it's too hard to truly
evaluate the merits of the decision. Maybe external deps are just too
costly (like for Idle), or maybe you just detest all the other
options, and so maybe you'll end up coming back to Tk; but at the
initial evaluation phase, I would push for something else if at all
possible.

There's often some sort of problem with non-ASCII text in a program
that wasn't built for it. A lot of programs I use (including some that
I've written) have issues with RTL text - particularly, issues with
mixed RTL and LTR text on the same lines, which is a pretty hairy
problem. But at least if a program uses Python 3, it has a good chance
of getting most of it right. As you say, that's a huge advantage over
so many applications. :(

ChrisA


From wuwei23 at gmail.com  Tue Apr 28 02:42:15 2015
From: wuwei23 at gmail.com (alex23)
Date: Tue, 28 Apr 2015 16:42:15 +1000
Subject: A question on the creation of list of lists
In-Reply-To: <8942f4d2-9b6e-45e3-a858-83977d187333@googlegroups.com>
References: <8942f4d2-9b6e-45e3-a858-83977d187333@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <mhna38$fki$1@dont-email.me>

On 23/04/2015 2:18 AM, subhabrata.banerji at gmail.com wrote:
> I have a list of file names of a directory, I want to read each one of them.
> After reading each one of them, I want to put the results of each file in a list.
> These lists would again be inserted to create a list of lists.

While there's nothing wrong with for loops, Python does provide list 
comprehensions which can help simplify list creation.

If you just want a list with each element being a list of the contents 
of a file:

     all_content = [ open(x, 'r').readlines() for x in list_of_files ]

If you want a list containing a list of filenames and another list 
holding the content lists (which you seem to be wanting from your code):

     files_and_content = zip(list_of_files, all_content)

Another useful way of storing data such as this is in a dictionary, 
using the filenames as keys:

    file_content = { x:open(x, 'r').readlines() for x in list_of_files }

What structure is most important is, of course, dependent on what you 
want to do with it next.


From steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info  Tue Apr 28 02:43:17 2015
From: steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: Tue, 28 Apr 2015 16:43:17 +1000
Subject: Best GUI for Python
References: <87h9s311r6.fsf@Equus.decebal.nl>
 <553cffc2$0$12998$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <85d22qk54u.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
 <mailman.29.1430089600.3680.python-list@python.org>
 <mhkme8$4gd$1@dont-email.me>
 <mailman.39.1430119356.3680.python-list@python.org>
 <553f1630$0$12909$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <mailman.54.1430199163.3680.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <553f2c07$0$11102$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>

On Tuesday 28 April 2015 15:32, Chris Angelico wrote:

> On Tue, Apr 28, 2015 at 3:10 PM, Steven D'Aprano
> <steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info> wrote:
>> On Monday 27 April 2015 17:22, Chris Angelico wrote:
>>
>>> This is a problem that won't just "go away". As more SMP blocks get
>>> assigned, more people will start using them, and get frustrated at
>>> your program for not letting them. (And why should an end user need to
>>> know the difference between ? and ?, that the second one works and
>>> the first doesn't?) Unless you're willing to wait for a Python that
>>> ships Tcl 9, Tkinter is a choice that restricts your end users.
>>
>> I'm not really arguing with you, just giving a slightly difference of
>> emphasis...
>>
>> I don't think that failure to support the SMPs is a deal-breaker.
>> Obviously, if you specifically need some subset of Unicode in the SMPs,
>> say Phoenician, then it may be, but I'm just talking about general use.
>> Given the generally poor support for non-ASCII characters many
>> applications provide, any Unicode support is better than none.
> 
> I agree that it isn't _in itself_ a deal-breaker; it's a choice, but
> most choices restrict you, the programmer. Choosing to use Python
> rather than C restricts what you can do easily (but so would the
> converse choice); choosing to use SQLite3 restricts your ability to
> alter tables; choosing to use PyGTK forces you to include an external
> dependency. But choosing to use Tkinter restricts *your users* to
> BMP-only. That's a consideration that takes a bit more thought to
> evaluate; how bad is it? You can decide on the cost of a UTF-8 string
> type by figuring out how often you need to know about character
> lengths, but how can you know the cost of a UCS-2 font renderer?

On the other hand, you can use something like QT, except that judging from 
claims made by the KDE 4 developers, QT has a bunch of Unicode-related bugs 
which they refuse to fix (the one which keeps biting me is that the 
application will suddenly decide I am typing right-to-left, and everything I 
type shows up in redro gnorw eht. Only restarting the application fixes it.

I don't think that choosing UCS-2 only is any worse than any other 
application feature like "support only jpegs, not every obscure image format 
GIMP supports" or "choose to use floating point maths instead of some 
numeric type with unlimited precision". You are free to make whatever trade-
offs you like, and your users are free to use another application :-)



-- 
Steve



From steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info  Tue Apr 28 02:58:55 2015
From: steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: Tue, 28 Apr 2015 16:58:55 +1000
Subject: Tit for tat
References: <admqjato7hkbnh4kp8qeeepn7lcp0ck18e@4ax.com>
 <mailman.30.1430091619.3680.python-list@python.org>
 <0p4rjadeqf1fb361dbkfatgpb9s0v266po@4ax.com>
 <1aa6b45b-8c50-48f8-ae01-86a4bf8a838f@googlegroups.com>
 <0uutjat2909gkj1bkh4h5kvko4r11tm359@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <553f2fb2$0$12896$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

On Tuesday 28 April 2015 13:18, Seymore4Head wrote:

> In the past, I have had some measure of success with the Toot for Tail
> strategy.


I don't believe that is a standard name for an Iterated Prisoner's Dilemma 
strategy. I've googled for it, using two different search engines, and 
neither come up with any references for "Toot For Tail" strategies.



-- 
Steve



From rosuav at gmail.com  Tue Apr 28 02:59:30 2015
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Tue, 28 Apr 2015 16:59:30 +1000
Subject: Best GUI for Python
In-Reply-To: <553f2c07$0$11102$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
References: <87h9s311r6.fsf@Equus.decebal.nl>
 <553cffc2$0$12998$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <85d22qk54u.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
 <mailman.29.1430089600.3680.python-list@python.org>
 <mhkme8$4gd$1@dont-email.me>
 <mailman.39.1430119356.3680.python-list@python.org>
 <553f1630$0$12909$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <mailman.54.1430199163.3680.python-list@python.org>
 <553f2c07$0$11102$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmqicCaWNrJESwPNevycFPuBBnNFv9n7RbWbBkCBV=bb6Q@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Apr 28, 2015 at 4:43 PM, Steven D'Aprano
<steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info> wrote:
> I don't think that choosing UCS-2 only is any worse than any other
> application feature like "support only jpegs, not every obscure image format
> GIMP supports" or "choose to use floating point maths instead of some
> numeric type with unlimited precision". You are free to make whatever trade-
> offs you like, and your users are free to use another application :-)

True, although supporting only one image format can be worked around
by converting your images. You can't just convert your UCS-4 data into
UCS-2.

ChrisA


From DaveFarrance at OMiTTHiSyahooANDTHiS.co.uk  Tue Apr 28 03:05:43 2015
From: DaveFarrance at OMiTTHiSyahooANDTHiS.co.uk (Dave Farrance)
Date: Tue, 28 Apr 2015 08:05:43 +0100
Subject: Best GUI for Python
References: <87h9s311r6.fsf@Equus.decebal.nl>
 <553cffc2$0$12998$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <mailman.28.1430080030.3680.python-list@python.org>
 <mhlq33$c52$1@reader1.panix.com> <mhm903$c7c$1@dont-email.me>
Message-ID: <jjbuja9ln9aco49jvi9a37uvhfrgrk03l0@4ax.com>

Christian Gollwitzer <auriocus at gmx.de> wrote:

>Yes, the default theme is terrible on Linux (Mac & Windows uses native 
>widgets). There are additional themes available, which are buried in 
>some packages and a bit difficult to install, but give reasonable 
>approximations to the QT look; I'm talking about plastik, for instance 
>http://wiki.tcl.tk/24094 (1st picture - the layout of the test is 
>terrible, but the widgets do look good). For some reason I've got no 
>insights, these themes are very slow (they are based on displaying 
>pre-rendered PNG images for the widget bits and pieces).
>Yet another possibility are the tileQT and tileGTK packages, which 
>render the widgets using QT and GTK, but of course this introduces these 
>dependencies and it might be simpler to just use QT or GTK natively.

Yes, in the case of a more complex control-panel interface, it becomes
worthwhile to design it with a GUI designer like Glade anyway, so that
would give it the "gi" GTk3 widget set which looks fine.

Tkinter is OK if you want to make something utilitarian like an
oscilloscope interface and it does seem to be the easiest way to build
an interface without a GUI builder.

Kivy isn't bad, being fairly easy to use without a GUI designer, and
having a modern flat smartphone-style widget set, if you like that sort
of thing. You're expected to give the buttons logos and different
colours.


From Cecil at decebal.nl  Tue Apr 28 03:33:37 2015
From: Cecil at decebal.nl (Cecil Westerhof)
Date: Tue, 28 Apr 2015 09:33:37 +0200
Subject: Not possible to hide local variables
Message-ID: <874mo0zoz2.fsf@Equus.decebal.nl>

If I remember correctly you can not hide variables of a class or make
them read-only?

I want to rewrite my moving average to python. The init is:
    def __init__(self, length):
        if type(length) != int:
            raise ParameterError, 'Parameter has to be an int'
        if n < 0:
            raise ValueError, 'Parameter should be greater or equal 2'
        self.length             = length
        self.old_values         = []
        self.current_total      = 0

But when someone changes length, old_values, or current_total that
would wreck havoc with my class instance. What is the best way to
handle this?

-- 
Cecil Westerhof
Senior Software Engineer
LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/cecilwesterhof


From steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info  Tue Apr 28 03:54:28 2015
From: steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: Tue, 28 Apr 2015 17:54:28 +1000
Subject: Best GUI for Python
References: <87h9s311r6.fsf@Equus.decebal.nl>
 <553cffc2$0$12998$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <85d22qk54u.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
 <mailman.29.1430089600.3680.python-list@python.org>
 <mhkme8$4gd$1@dont-email.me>
 <mailman.39.1430119356.3680.python-list@python.org>
 <553f1630$0$12909$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <mailman.54.1430199163.3680.python-list@python.org>
 <553f2c07$0$11102$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
 <mailman.55.1430204372.3680.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <553f3cb5$0$13010$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

On Tuesday 28 April 2015 16:59, Chris Angelico wrote:

> On Tue, Apr 28, 2015 at 4:43 PM, Steven D'Aprano
> <steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info> wrote:
>> I don't think that choosing UCS-2 only is any worse than any other
>> application feature like "support only jpegs, not every obscure image
>> format GIMP supports" or "choose to use floating point maths instead of
>> some numeric type with unlimited precision". You are free to make
>> whatever trade- offs you like, and your users are free to use another
>> application :-)
> 
> True, although supporting only one image format can be worked around
> by converting your images. You can't just convert your UCS-4 data into
> UCS-2.

Of course \u0079\x6f&75; can :-)




-- 
Steve



From ethan at stoneleaf.us  Tue Apr 28 03:56:09 2015
From: ethan at stoneleaf.us (Ethan Furman)
Date: Tue, 28 Apr 2015 00:56:09 -0700
Subject: Not possible to hide local variables
In-Reply-To: <874mo0zoz2.fsf@Equus.decebal.nl>
References: <874mo0zoz2.fsf@Equus.decebal.nl>
Message-ID: <20150428075609.GK32422@stoneleaf.us>

On 04/28, Cecil Westerhof wrote:
> If I remember correctly you can not hide variables of a class or make
> them read-only?
> 
> I want to rewrite my moving average to python. The init is:
>     def __init__(self, length):
>         if type(length) != int:
>             raise ParameterError, 'Parameter has to be an int'
>         if n < 0:
>             raise ValueError, 'Parameter should be greater or equal 2'
>         self.length             = length
>         self.old_values         = []
>         self.current_total      = 0
> 
> But when someone changes length, old_values, or current_total that
> would wreck havoc with my class instance. What is the best way to
> handle this?

Prefix those names with a single leading underscore, which is the convention
for private variables.

This way, if some user (maybe you! ;) has a good reason to change those
values in can be done, but it is quite clear that said user is mucking about
with internals and they are on their own.

--
~Ethan~


From auriocus at gmx.de  Tue Apr 28 04:00:16 2015
From: auriocus at gmx.de (Christian Gollwitzer)
Date: Tue, 28 Apr 2015 10:00:16 +0200
Subject: Best GUI for Python
In-Reply-To: <553f3cb5$0$13010$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
References: <87h9s311r6.fsf@Equus.decebal.nl>
 <553cffc2$0$12998$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <85d22qk54u.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
 <mailman.29.1430089600.3680.python-list@python.org>
 <mhkme8$4gd$1@dont-email.me>
 <mailman.39.1430119356.3680.python-list@python.org>
 <553f1630$0$12909$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <mailman.54.1430199163.3680.python-list@python.org>
 <553f2c07$0$11102$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
 <mailman.55.1430204372.3680.python-list@python.org>
 <553f3cb5$0$13010$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <mhneki$ud2$1@dont-email.me>

Am 28.04.15 um 09:54 schrieb Steven D'Aprano:
> On Tuesday 28 April 2015 16:59, Chris Angelico wrote:
>
>> On Tue, Apr 28, 2015 at 4:43 PM, Steven D'Aprano
>> <steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info> wrote:
>>> I don't think that choosing UCS-2 only is any worse than any other
>>> application feature like "support only jpegs, not every obscure image
>>> format GIMP supports" or "choose to use floating point maths instead of
>>> some numeric type with unlimited precision". You are free to make
>>> whatever trade- offs you like, and your users are free to use another
>>> application :-)
>>
>> True, although supporting only one image format can be worked around
>> by converting your images. You can't just convert your UCS-4 data into
>> UCS-2.
>
> Of course \u0079\x6f&75; can :-)
>

Lossy data compression ;)

	Christian



From rosuav at gmail.com  Tue Apr 28 04:06:21 2015
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Tue, 28 Apr 2015 18:06:21 +1000
Subject: Not possible to hide local variables
In-Reply-To: <874mo0zoz2.fsf@Equus.decebal.nl>
References: <874mo0zoz2.fsf@Equus.decebal.nl>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmpunOPuwMCEDMnbWMEsjKH7iDCWAZCkKLgNJcenhZGTpQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Apr 28, 2015 at 5:33 PM, Cecil Westerhof <Cecil at decebal.nl> wrote:
> If I remember correctly you can not hide variables of a class or make
> them read-only?
>
> I want to rewrite my moving average to python. The init is:
>     def __init__(self, length):
>         if type(length) != int:
>             raise ParameterError, 'Parameter has to be an int'
>         if n < 0:
>             raise ValueError, 'Parameter should be greater or equal 2'
>         self.length             = length
>         self.old_values         = []
>         self.current_total      = 0
>
> But when someone changes length, old_values, or current_total that
> would wreck havoc with my class instance. What is the best way to
> handle this?

If you simply want them to never change them, but they may look at
them, the best option is to do nothing. It's no different from
anything else they might do; for instance, someone might inject a new
'type' into your namespace, and completely break your check. (More on
that later.) If they aren't meant to look at _or_ change them, what
you could do is name them "_length" and so on - a single leading
underscore is a signal that this is a private implementation detail,
not to be changed or viewed. But you can't stop people from messing
you up. You can't stop people from playing around with ctypes and
changing the value of 0 (and yes, that is possible - it'll probably
crash Python sooner or later though!). None of that is your problem.

In fact, it's not really your problem if someone gives you a length
that isn't a simple integer. In the first place, they might give you a
subclass of int, so a better check would be this:

if not isinstance(length, int):
    raise ValueError("length should be integral")

(note that I'm avoiding the multiple-argument syntax which doesn't
work in Python 3; if ParameterError is a subclass of ValueError you
could use that instead, but ValueError works)

You don't even need to check that it's an integer. If you get
something that can't be compared against 0, they'll get an instant
exception; otherwise, the exception might come up later. But it's
still not your problem. You could skip the nonnegativity check too,
but that's good documentation. (I'm assuming that ought to be checking
'length', as there is no 'n' in your example.)

So here's how I'd write that function:

    def __init__(self, length):
        if length < 0:
            raise ValueError("Length should be non-negative")
        self.length = length
        self.old_values = []
        self.current_total = 0

If someone changes them... not your problem. Life's so easy when you
don't have to worry!

ChrisA


From rosuav at gmail.com  Tue Apr 28 04:07:15 2015
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Tue, 28 Apr 2015 18:07:15 +1000
Subject: Best GUI for Python
In-Reply-To: <553f3cb5$0$13010$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
References: <87h9s311r6.fsf@Equus.decebal.nl>
 <553cffc2$0$12998$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <85d22qk54u.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
 <mailman.29.1430089600.3680.python-list@python.org>
 <mhkme8$4gd$1@dont-email.me>
 <mailman.39.1430119356.3680.python-list@python.org>
 <553f1630$0$12909$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <mailman.54.1430199163.3680.python-list@python.org>
 <553f2c07$0$11102$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
 <mailman.55.1430204372.3680.python-list@python.org>
 <553f3cb5$0$13010$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmqFDryTsWyBNh0asuKfRa3AGsrAun6WN46mUqPU3TT0DA@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Apr 28, 2015 at 5:54 PM, Steven D'Aprano
<steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info> wrote:
> On Tuesday 28 April 2015 16:59, Chris Angelico wrote:
>
>> On Tue, Apr 28, 2015 at 4:43 PM, Steven D'Aprano
>> <steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info> wrote:
>>> I don't think that choosing UCS-2 only is any worse than any other
>>> application feature like "support only jpegs, not every obscure image
>>> format GIMP supports" or "choose to use floating point maths instead of
>>> some numeric type with unlimited precision". You are free to make
>>> whatever trade- offs you like, and your users are free to use another
>>> application :-)
>>
>> True, although supporting only one image format can be worked around
>> by converting your images. You can't just convert your UCS-4 data into
>> UCS-2.
>
> Of course \u0079\x6f&75; can :-)

That's an encoding, not a conversion :)

ChrisA


From steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info  Tue Apr 28 04:37:36 2015
From: steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: Tue, 28 Apr 2015 18:37:36 +1000
Subject: Not possible to hide local variables
References: <874mo0zoz2.fsf@Equus.decebal.nl>
Message-ID: <553f46d2$0$11124$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>

On Tuesday 28 April 2015 17:33, Cecil Westerhof wrote:

> If I remember correctly you can not hide variables of a class or make
> them read-only?

In Python circles, the preferred terminology for class and instance members 
is "attributes" rather than variables. "Variable" is reserved for module- 
and function-level name bindings.

But other than that, you are correct. Python practices attribute hiding by 
convention. Names beginning with a single underscore like _spam or obj._eggs 
are treated as private.

Names beginning with two underscores, but not trailing with underscores, are 
also name-mangled: obj.__eggs will be mangled to obj._TheClass__eggs. You 
should avoid name-mangling unless you really need it, don't use it "just in 
case".

The convention is, if the caller messes with your private attributes or 
variables, and their code breaks, they have nobody to blame but themselves, 
and we are allowed to laugh at them. We're consenting adults here.

(The only exception is C extension objects and built-ins, where messing with 
private data could cause a segfault.)


> I want to rewrite my moving average to python. The init is:
>     def __init__(self, length):
>         if type(length) != int:
>             raise ParameterError, 'Parameter has to be an int'
>         if n < 0:
>             raise ValueError, 'Parameter should be greater or equal 2'
>         self.length             = length
>         self.old_values         = []
>         self.current_total      = 0
> 
> But when someone changes length, old_values, or current_total that
> would wreck havoc with my class instance. What is the best way to
> handle this?

Don't use a class at all. Moving average is best handled as a generator. We 
can use a regular generator:


import collections, itertools

def moving_average(data, window=3):
    """Iterate over data, yielding the simple moving average with a fixed
    window size.

    With a window size of N (defaulting to three), the simple moving average
    yields the average of items data[0:N], data[1:N+1], data[2:N+2], ...

    >>> list(moving_average([40, 30, 50, 46, 39, 44]))
    [40.0, 42.0, 45.0, 43.0]

    """
    it = iter(data)
    d = collections.deque(itertools.islice(it, window))
    if len(d) != window:
        raise ValueError('too few data points for given window size')
    s = sum(d)
    yield s/window
    for x in it:
        s += x - d.popleft()
        d.append(x)
        yield s/window



Being an iterator, it can consume data points one at a time and return 
results as needed, or here is an example of consuming all the data greedily:

py> data = [1, 2, 3, 2, 3, 5, 4, 7, 3]
py> list(moving_average(data))
[2.0, 2.3333333333333335, 2.6666666666666665, 3.3333333333333335, 4.0, 
5.333333333333333, 4.666666666666667]



If you must use a class, flag the internal attributes as private with a 
leading underscore. Your callers will respect that, and if they don't, all 
promises are null and void.


-- 
Steve



From rosuav at gmail.com  Tue Apr 28 04:44:45 2015
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Tue, 28 Apr 2015 18:44:45 +1000
Subject: Not possible to hide local variables
In-Reply-To: <553f46d2$0$11124$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
References: <874mo0zoz2.fsf@Equus.decebal.nl>
 <553f46d2$0$11124$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmoZPTYUoJssLdB-=Mq_qmMX8j2WCg1NcWSv5Q_nHHEcSg@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Apr 28, 2015 at 6:37 PM, Steven D'Aprano
<steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info> wrote:
> The convention is, if the caller messes with your private attributes or
> variables, and their code breaks, they have nobody to blame but themselves,
> and we are allowed to laugh at them. We're consenting adults here.
>
> (The only exception is C extension objects and built-ins, where messing with
> private data could cause a segfault.)

Hey. If you cause a segfault, we're still allowed to laugh at you.

ChrisA


From marko at pacujo.net  Tue Apr 28 05:20:18 2015
From: marko at pacujo.net (Marko Rauhamaa)
Date: Tue, 28 Apr 2015 12:20:18 +0300
Subject: Not possible to hide local variables
References: <874mo0zoz2.fsf@Equus.decebal.nl>
 <553f46d2$0$11124$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <87pp6oip7x.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>

Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info>:

> The convention is, if the caller messes with your private attributes
> or variables, and their code breaks, they have nobody to blame but
> themselves, and we are allowed to laugh at them. We're consenting
> adults here.

I would take it further: as a rule, user code should not think of
modifying the contents of an object unless it is clearly documented as a
supported operation. IOW, you should consider all attributes private, or
at least read-only.

BTW, the principle is actually enforced for some objects:

   >>> "hello".join = lambda *x: "world"
   Traceback (most recent call last):
     File "<stdin>", line 1, in <module>
   AttributeError: 'str' object attribute 'join' is read-only
   >>> "hello".joinn = lambda *x: "world"
   Traceback (most recent call last):
     File "<stdin>", line 1, in <module>
   AttributeError: 'str' object has no attribute 'joinn'
   >>> "hello".__setattr__ = lambda *x: None
   Traceback (most recent call last):
     File "<stdin>", line 1, in <module>
   AttributeError: 'str' object attribute '__setattr__' is read-only


A tougher issue is with encapsulation. A derived class might
accidentally step on the toes of the base class by redefining an
attribute:

========================================================================
class Base:
    def __init__(self):
        self._secret = 17

    def divulge_secret(self):
        return self._secret

class Derived(Base):
    def __init__(self):
        self._secret = 1

print(Derived().divulge_secret())
========================================================================

which outputs 1.


Marko


From elsieasbaker at yahoo.com  Tue Apr 28 05:59:34 2015
From: elsieasbaker at yahoo.com (elsieasbaker)
Date: Tue, 28 Apr 2015 02:59:34 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: http://garciniawowfacts.com/pure-body-elite-review/
Message-ID: <1430215174267-5093556.post@n6.nabble.com>

Pure Body Elite very first thing you need to do is attempt to tell your
family and friends to alter their diet plan. That is not likely going to
work. So that you are probably Weight Loss Reviews likely to have to try and
dismiss them. Keep healthful snacks readily available so that once you see
someone eating a dessert or some other unhealthy thing you're able to go
right ahead and grab one of the items of fruit or other healthful items to
consume which will be beneficial for your diet.Additionally you might want
to watch Television in another place than other people of the household if
they're going to be doing a lot of snacking. You could also keep these
things please not snack facing you, which will become a good support.

http://garciniawowfacts.com/pure-body-elite-review/




--
View this message in context: http://python.6.x6.nabble.com/http-garciniawowfacts-com-pure-body-elite-review-tp5093556.html
Sent from the Python - python-list mailing list archive at Nabble.com.


From jesadjust at gmail.com  Tue Apr 28 09:02:01 2015
From: jesadjust at gmail.com (jesadjust at gmail.com)
Date: Tue, 28 Apr 2015 06:02:01 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: getting twisted to work in python - sending data from one protocol to
 another
Message-ID: <8ec30b82-643e-4d2b-9303-44a868026b30@googlegroups.com>

I am a newbie in python. Right now I am working on this messaging app and I would like to pass data from one protocol to another. I have been referencing to other answers provided in other similar questions by trying to add a variable storing the data from one factory then initiate another factory and write the data to it. Unfortunately it is only writing back to itself now instead of writing to another factory, and I cannot figure out why. If anyone can provide any sort of help I will really appreciate it as I have been stuck in this point for quite a while.

Here is the code

# Copyright (c) Twisted Matrix Laboratories.
# See LICENSE for details.

import kivy
from kivy.app import App
from kivy.uix.label import Label
from kivy.uix.scatter import Scatter
from kivy.uix.boxlayout import BoxLayout
from kivy.uix.scrollview import ScrollView
from kivy.uix.button import Button
from kivy.graphics.vertex_instructions import Rectangle
from kivy.graphics.context_instructions import Color
from kivy.graphics.instructions import Instruction
from kivy.base import runTouchApp
from kivy.lang import Builder
import socket
from kivy.core.window import Window
import pygame
import random
from kivy.support import install_twisted_reactor

install_twisted_reactor()
from twisted.internet import reactor, protocol

Window.size = (550, 400)

# monitoring wordlist
with open("wordlist.txt") as word_file:
    wordlist = list(word.strip().lower() for word in word_file)

# protocols for sender
class EchoProtocol(protocol.Protocol):
    """This is just about the simplest possible protocol"""

    def dataReceived(self, data):
        "As soon as any data is received, write it back."
        sendermessage = data
        if sendermessage:
            self.transport.write(sendermessage)
            MultiEcho().dataReceived(self.transport.write("sender: %s" %sendermessage))


class EchoFactory(protocol.Factory):
    protocol = EchoProtocol

    def __init__(self, app):
        self.app = app


# protocols for receiver
class MultiEcho(protocol.Protocol):
    def connectionMade(self):
        self.factory.echoers.append(self)

    def dataReceived(self, data):
        receivermessage = data
        # handlereceivermessage = self.factory.app.handle_message(data)
        if receivermessage:
            self.transport.write(receivermessage)
            EchoProtocol().dataReceived(self.transport.write("receiver: %s" %receivermessage))


class MultiEchoFactory(protocol.Factory):
    protocol = MultiEcho

    def __init__(self, app):
        self.echoers = []
        self.app = app


class ServerApp(App):
    def build(self):
        self.layout = BoxLayout(orientation='vertical', spacing=10)

        self.label = Button(text='Censoring process begin\nBeware of keyword "umbrella"\n ', color=[1.0, 1.0, 1.0, 1.0])
        self.label.color = [0.9, 0.2, 0.2, 1.0]

        self.upperscroll = Button(pos_hint={'x': 0, 'center_y': .5}, size_hint=(None, None))

        self.scatter = Scatter()

        self.displaybox = Label()
        self.displaybox.color = [0.4, 0.9, 0.4, 1.0]

        reactor.listenTCP(8000, MultiEchoFactory(self))  # for sender
        reactor.listenTCP(8001, EchoFactory(self))  # for receiver

        self.layout.add_widget(self.label)
        self.layout.add_widget(self.scatter)

        self.scatter.add_widget(self.displaybox)

        return self.layout

    def handle_message(self, msg):

        if any(word in msg.lower() for word in wordlist):

            self.displaybox.color = [0.9, 0.4, 0.4, 1.0]
            self.displaybox.text = "content blocked"
            self.label.text += "Alert! Sender posts %s \n" % msg


        else:
            self.label.text += "Safe - sender posts %s \n" % msg
            self.displaybox.color = [0.4, 0.9, 0.4, 1.0]
            self.displaybox.text = "%s" % msg

        msg = msg

        return msg

    def handle_message2(self, msg):

        if any(word in msg.lower() for word in wordlist):
            self.label.color = [0.8, 0.8, 0.5, 1.0]
            self.label.text += "Alert! Receiver got %s \n" % msg
        else:
            self.label.color = [0.2, 0.2, 1.0, 1.0]
            self.label.text += "Safe - receiver sends %s \n" % msg

        msg = msg

        return msg


if __name__ == '__main__':
    ServerApp().run()


From stehlampen at arcor.de  Tue Apr 28 13:18:29 2015
From: stehlampen at arcor.de (stehlampen at arcor.de)
Date: Tue, 28 Apr 2015 19:18:29 +0200
Subject: What means "->"?
Message-ID: <553FC0E5.8020501@arcor.de>

Hi,

in the Python Language Specification, I've found the delimiter -> (cf. 
https://docs.python.org/3/reference/lexical_analysis.html#delimiters, 
last entry in the table?s second line). Could you please describe the 
effects of this delimiter? I read nothing about -> by now. In addition, 
help("->") didn?t work.

Many thanks in advance.


From davecook at nowhere.net  Tue Apr 28 13:22:32 2015
From: davecook at nowhere.net (Dave Cook)
Date: 28 Apr 2015 17:22:32 GMT
Subject: Best GUI for Python
References: <87h9s311r6.fsf@Equus.decebal.nl>
Message-ID: <553fc1d8$0$56388$c3e8da3$38634283@news.astraweb.com>

On 2015-04-26, Cecil Westerhof <Cecil at decebal.nl> wrote:
> I want to use a GUI for Python. When searching I found (beside some
> others) Tkinter and wxPython. From what I found it looks like Tkinter
> is slightly better. What would be the pros/cons of these two? Would
> there be a compelling reason to use another GUI?
>

For cross-platform work, I think it comes down to wx or Qt.  I've used
them on Windows, Mac and Linux.  Qt has the more polished and
consistent API, and is more popular with the big scientific Python
distros. wx has the most liberal license, and I think having to deal
with only one Python binding is somewhat an advantage.  I've gone back
and forth between them, and could probably live with either one.

Gtk is also worth looking at if you only care about Linux.

Dave Cook


From fomcl at yahoo.com  Tue Apr 28 13:43:36 2015
From: fomcl at yahoo.com (Albert-Jan Roskam)
Date: Tue, 28 Apr 2015 10:43:36 -0700
Subject: Question Installing latest Python
Message-ID: <1430243016.90577.BPMail_high_carrier@web163801.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>


----------------------------
On Mon, Apr 27, 2015 4:55 PM CEST Steven D'Aprano wrote:

>On Mon, 27 Apr 2015 01:11 am, ?????? ??????????????? wrote:
>
>> ?? ???????, 26 ???????? 2015 - 6:05:50 ?.?. UTC+3, ? ??????? Steven
>> D'Aprano ??????:
>> On Mon, 27 Apr 2015 01:00 am, ?????? ??????????????? wrote:
>> 
>> > Hello,
>> > 
>> > Can you please tell me how to install latest Python 3.4.x without
>> > disturbing the other default python v2.7.5 intallation that i currently
>> > have on my VPS server and access it as Python 3?
>> > 
>> > Thank you.
>>> Not unless you tell us more about your setup.
>> What operating system? Linux, OS X, Unix, Windows?
>> 32-bit or 64-bit OS?
>> Do you have root/Administrator access to the machine?
>> If you are running Windows, do you have a C compiler?
>> Have you read the instructions on the Python web site?
>> 
>> --
>> Steven
>> 
>> 
>> Yes, sure:
>> 
>> CentOS 7.1
>> x64 bit
>> Root Access to the VPS
>
>(1) Go here:
>
>https://www.python.org/downloads/release/python-342/
>
>(2) Choose the source distribution you want. Save it to your hard drive on
>the server you will be working on.
>
>(3) Unpack the file. Do you need help with unpacking?
>
>(4) cd into the unpacked directory. Read the README file. Any questions?
>
>(5) Run these three commands from the unpacked directory as a regular user,
>not root:
>
>    ./configure
>    make
>    make test
>
>
>(6) Take careful note of any errors from those commands. Some warnings and
>errors may be harmless. Feel free to ask about them here. You may prefer to
>ignore normal output and only see errors:
>
>    ./configure > /dev/null
>    make > /dev/null
>    make test > /dev/null
>
>
>If there are any errors you do not understand, STOP! Read the README file
>again. Does that tell you how to fix the problem? If not, ask for help
>before proceeding.
>
>
>(7) When you are satisfied that everything is okay run this:
>
>    sudo make altinstall
>
>
>or if you prefer:
>
>    su 
>    make altinstall
>
>
>(8) Test that everything works as expected by running these two commands:
>
>    python -c "import sys; print sys.executable"
>
>    python3.4 -c "import sys; print(sys.executable)"
>
>
>You should see something like this:
>
>/bin/python2.7
>/usr/local/bin/python3.4

And also (if you did not read the 'make test' results carefully), e.g.:
python3.4 -c "import sqlite3"

Useful link:
https://github.com/yyuu/pyenv/wiki/Common-build-problems

I always assume that failing win* (eg winsound) and startfile tests are no problem on linux.




From malaclypse2 at gmail.com  Tue Apr 28 14:03:52 2015
From: malaclypse2 at gmail.com (Jerry Hill)
Date: Tue, 28 Apr 2015 14:03:52 -0400
Subject: What means "->"?
In-Reply-To: <553FC0E5.8020501@arcor.de>
References: <553FC0E5.8020501@arcor.de>
Message-ID: <CADwdpyZT2Hg168tJq1X3vJi7LJS9aTOt-7BsyxCQSqNHfp_J7Q@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Apr 28, 2015 at 1:18 PM,  <stehlampen at arcor.de> wrote:
> in the Python Language Specification, I've found the delimiter -> (cf.
> https://docs.python.org/3/reference/lexical_analysis.html#delimiters, last
> entry in the table?s second line). Could you please describe the effects of
> this delimiter? I read nothing about -> by now. In addition, help("->")
> didn?t work.

It's part of the syntax for function annotations.

See here in the reference manual:
https://docs.python.org/3/reference/compound_stmts.html#index-23
and/or refer to PEP 3107 for more background:
https://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-3107/

If you're interested, PEP 484
(https://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0484/) is attempting to chart out
the future uses of function annotation for doing type checking in
external tools (keep in mind that PEP 484 isn't final yet, nor has it
been accepted, my impression is that it's still a work in progress).

-- 
Jerry


From robert.kern at gmail.com  Tue Apr 28 16:09:51 2015
From: robert.kern at gmail.com (Robert Kern)
Date: Tue, 28 Apr 2015 21:09:51 +0100
Subject: Tit for tat
In-Reply-To: <553f2fb2$0$12896$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
References: <admqjato7hkbnh4kp8qeeepn7lcp0ck18e@4ax.com>
 <mailman.30.1430091619.3680.python-list@python.org>
 <0p4rjadeqf1fb361dbkfatgpb9s0v266po@4ax.com>
 <1aa6b45b-8c50-48f8-ae01-86a4bf8a838f@googlegroups.com>
 <0uutjat2909gkj1bkh4h5kvko4r11tm359@4ax.com>
 <553f2fb2$0$12896$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <mhopef$3st$1@ger.gmane.org>

On 2015-04-28 07:58, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> On Tuesday 28 April 2015 13:18, Seymore4Head wrote:
>
>> In the past, I have had some measure of success with the Toot for Tail
>> strategy.
>
> I don't believe that is a standard name for an Iterated Prisoner's Dilemma
> strategy. I've googled for it, using two different search engines, and
> neither come up with any references for "Toot For Tail" strategies.

I do believe he is trying to make a crude joke.

-- 
Robert Kern

"I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma
  that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had
  an underlying truth."
   -- Umberto Eco



From john_ladasky at sbcglobal.net  Tue Apr 28 18:16:05 2015
From: john_ladasky at sbcglobal.net (John Ladasky)
Date: Tue, 28 Apr 2015 15:16:05 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Tit for tat
In-Reply-To: <mailman.65.1430251800.3680.python-list@python.org>
References: <admqjato7hkbnh4kp8qeeepn7lcp0ck18e@4ax.com>
 <mailman.30.1430091619.3680.python-list@python.org>
 <0p4rjadeqf1fb361dbkfatgpb9s0v266po@4ax.com>
 <1aa6b45b-8c50-48f8-ae01-86a4bf8a838f@googlegroups.com>
 <0uutjat2909gkj1bkh4h5kvko4r11tm359@4ax.com>
 <553f2fb2$0$12896$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <mailman.65.1430251800.3680.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <a81dccf6-7dde-410d-a5e4-ff7c026c1eeb@googlegroups.com>

On Tuesday, April 28, 2015 at 1:10:14 PM UTC-7, Robert Kern wrote:
> On 2015-04-28 07:58, Steven D'Aprano wrote:

> I do believe he is trying to make a crude joke.

I agree, that's what he's doing.  And I find it ironic, since he started this thread, and seemed to invite a serious discussion of the topic.

I thought that Patrick Grim's analysis was very interesting, showing that the Spatialized Iterated Prisoner's Dilemma (SIPD) could emulate the Wireworld cellular automaton, which is a Turing-complete system.  Thus, the SIPD, a seemingly simple system at first glance, includes configurations which are formally undecidable in the G?delian sense.  I'm not sure whether Grim proved that an SIPD which includes the Tit for Tat strategy could emulate Wireworld, but it seems likely that one could be built.


From steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info  Tue Apr 28 18:43:00 2015
From: steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: Wed, 29 Apr 2015 08:43:00 +1000
Subject: Question Installing latest Python
References: <70cf8ca0-beea-4f01-b962-beab1d54d2fd@googlegroups.com>
 <553cfec1$0$12998$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <c9c7c7ae-e5d8-4340-94fa-7216b353fc39@googlegroups.com>
 <553e4dd4$0$13004$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <b19f41e9-a3f5-47c2-b590-3c7a1e396094@googlegroups.com>
 <a2307bce-678d-4baf-a8d9-cb56278ff8bb@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <55400cf5$0$13009$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

On Wed, 29 Apr 2015 05:26 am, ?????? ??????????????? wrote:

> ?? ?????, 28 ???????? 2015 - 10:02:24 ?.?. UTC+3, ? ??????? ??????
> ??????????????? ??????:
>> First of all Steven thank youvery much for your detailed help.
>> 
>> Secondly prior of seeing your post i tried to folowe a guid and isntall
>> python 3.3.2 for CentOS 7.1 x64 using yum.


What command did you use to install with yum?


>> The python ould have been installed in 3.3.2 there as yous ay, but
>> instead look:
>> 
>> [root at secure ~]# /usr/bin/python3 -V
>> /usr/bin/python3: error while loading shared libraries:
>> libpython3.3m.so.1.0: cannot open shared object file: No such file or
>> directory
>> [root at secure ~]# /opt/rh/python33/root/usr/bin/python -V
>> /opt/rh/python33/root/usr/bin/python: error while loading shared
>> libraries: libpython3.3m.so.1.0: cannot open shared object file: No such
>> file or directory
>> [root at secure ~]#

Run these commands:

cd /tmp
python3 -c "import sys; print(sys.executable)"


What output do you get?


> Should i remove the package with yum and try the build from scracth method
> you posted otr is there is a way to reloves this error Steven?

No, do not remove the yum package yet. If you are satisfied with Python 3.3
the yum package is better than installing from source.


-- 
Steven



From Seymore4Head at Hotmail.invalid  Tue Apr 28 20:03:38 2015
From: Seymore4Head at Hotmail.invalid (Seymore4Head)
Date: Tue, 28 Apr 2015 20:03:38 -0400
Subject: Tit for tat
References: <admqjato7hkbnh4kp8qeeepn7lcp0ck18e@4ax.com>
 <mailman.30.1430091619.3680.python-list@python.org>
 <0p4rjadeqf1fb361dbkfatgpb9s0v266po@4ax.com>
 <1aa6b45b-8c50-48f8-ae01-86a4bf8a838f@googlegroups.com>
 <0uutjat2909gkj1bkh4h5kvko4r11tm359@4ax.com>
 <553f2fb2$0$12896$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <mailman.65.1430251800.3680.python-list@python.org>
 <a81dccf6-7dde-410d-a5e4-ff7c026c1eeb@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <kt70kal2un0q5s0g0m0cf2i68im97i7e7l@4ax.com>

On Tue, 28 Apr 2015 15:16:05 -0700 (PDT), John Ladasky
<john_ladasky at sbcglobal.net> wrote:

>On Tuesday, April 28, 2015 at 1:10:14 PM UTC-7, Robert Kern wrote:
>> On 2015-04-28 07:58, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
>
>> I do believe he is trying to make a crude joke.
>
>I agree, that's what he's doing.  And I find it ironic, since he started this thread, and seemed to invite a serious discussion of the topic.
>
I did start out serious.  I thought I was making a pretty funny joke
too.  I though both were allowed.
I guess not.  Sorry

What I was fishing for were personal stories of programmers that had
tried the tit for tat program challenge.

>I thought that Patrick Grim's analysis was very interesting, showing that the Spatialized Iterated Prisoner's Dilemma (SIPD) could emulate the Wireworld cellular automaton, which is a Turing-complete system.  Thus, the SIPD, a seemingly simple system at first glance, includes configurations which are formally undecidable in the G?delian sense.  I'm not sure whether Grim proved that an SIPD which includes the Tit for Tat strategy could emulate Wireworld, but it seems likely that one could be built.


From rustompmody at gmail.com  Tue Apr 28 21:33:22 2015
From: rustompmody at gmail.com (Rustom Mody)
Date: Tue, 28 Apr 2015 18:33:22 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Tit for tat
In-Reply-To: <a81dccf6-7dde-410d-a5e4-ff7c026c1eeb@googlegroups.com>
References: <admqjato7hkbnh4kp8qeeepn7lcp0ck18e@4ax.com>
 <mailman.30.1430091619.3680.python-list@python.org>
 <0p4rjadeqf1fb361dbkfatgpb9s0v266po@4ax.com>
 <1aa6b45b-8c50-48f8-ae01-86a4bf8a838f@googlegroups.com>
 <0uutjat2909gkj1bkh4h5kvko4r11tm359@4ax.com>
 <553f2fb2$0$12896$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <mailman.65.1430251800.3680.python-list@python.org>
 <a81dccf6-7dde-410d-a5e4-ff7c026c1eeb@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4869234f-8959-4295-a4f4-84d8692a4a9c@googlegroups.com>

On Wednesday, April 29, 2015 at 3:46:24 AM UTC+5:30, John Ladasky wrote:

> I thought that Patrick Grim's analysis was very interesting, showing that the 
> Spatialized Iterated Prisoner's Dilemma (SIPD) could emulate the Wireworld 
> cellular automaton, which is a Turing-complete system.  Thus, the SIPD, a 
> seemingly simple system at first glance, includes configurations which are 
> formally undecidable in the G?delian sense.  I'm not sure whether Grim proved 
> that an SIPD which includes the Tit for Tat strategy could emulate Wireworld, 
> but it seems likely that one could be built.

Thanks John for those pointers -- Ive been looking at it with interest.
This area is of some interest to me -- as my last two blog posts would indicate
http://blog.languager.org/2015/04/poverty-universality-structure-0.html
http://blog.languager.org/2015/03/cs-history-0.html

------------------------
PS Google groups invites to writing longlines which causes trouble to some
people out here (with historical machines?).


From kaiser.yann at gmail.com  Tue Apr 28 21:55:42 2015
From: kaiser.yann at gmail.com (Yann Kaiser)
Date: Wed, 29 Apr 2015 01:55:42 +0000
Subject: Clize 3.0b1: An argument parser that draws a CLI from your
 function sigature
In-Reply-To: <CAPTjJmqSni3m1nDvQgDmVmm5wgWY=GYM3DRqHeVGHA8tHfQ-uw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CANUJvPWSO8bW3mNh1_wCH6qcoGtUE=9zJ71acdga8d0vViZZ8Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAPTjJmqbnupbzoKA20gMAT9pnkH1rr5XAsBLeqrjtFwC=6-2Ug@mail.gmail.com>
 <CANUJvPVCnJ146W5Jm-=L4ButFudZzPear3DpAzVbmbQGU7b1cw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAPTjJmqSni3m1nDvQgDmVmm5wgWY=GYM3DRqHeVGHA8tHfQ-uw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CANUJvPXqm=b9_oUsxCH0p2c+HfCoWb3vm2FyYMA=RDN6=P8s2Q@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, 27 Apr 2015 at 20:28 Chris Angelico <rosuav at gmail.com> wrote:

> On Tue, Apr 28, 2015 at 12:45 PM, Yann Kaiser <kaiser.yann at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> > On Mon, 27 Apr 2015 at 17:04 Chris Angelico <rosuav at gmail.com> wrote:
> >> Interesting. I've also been working on a simpler arg handling module;
> >> maybe we can work together. The goals for mine are:
> >>
> >> * Each function should be as independent as possible.
> >
> >
> > In Clize, commands are also just regular functions which have the desired
> > amount of keyword-only parameters and annotations. They can still be run
> > individually, be tested, and so forth.
>
> To implement something like the examples I gave, though, you'd need to
> enumerate the subcommand functions at the end. I'd like to be able to
> not do that.
>
> My inspiration came partly from Flask. I can build up a web site with
> several separate files, where one file might define routes for all the
> human-accessible content (the stuff that's designed for a web browser)
> and a separate file could define the API endpoints (emitting JSON or
> something). There's no need to have a single gathering point that
> lists every function that needs to be called - they get squirreled
> away by the decorator.
>

I'm aware of the pattern, and I don't really like it, especially because it
gets weird when multiple modules are involved. You'd have to import modules
because they have a side-effect of adding stuff to a list rather than
import things so that you can put them in a list. In addition, if Clize
manages that list, it will be a global mutable object to take care of in
tests and so forth. That'll be rather yucky.
I like the straightforwardness of "names are imported or defined" -> "names
are passed to run" (what is passed to run *is* what you get) rather than
names are collected as side effect of this and that import then run looks
at them (well, I could explore what all those imports are doing...).

>> * Minimize repetition (of names, descriptions, etc)
> >
> >
> > I try to minimize repetition, but the reality of things is that a
> parameter
> > name could be repeated up to 4 times in Clize:
> >
> > * In the function's parameter list
> > * In the function's docstring
> > * If named explicitly, in a @-kwoargs decorator (not needed with Py3)
> > * In an annotate decorator (again, not needed with Py2 compatibility
> isn't
> > desired)
> >
> > Two of these wouldn't be relevant in a Python 3-only world (if it's just
> a
> > shell script replacement, you can probably pretend to be in one for a
> > moment), the remainder being normal things in a function. So I'm not
> doing
> > too badly there. Descriptions are of course only written in the
> description
> > :-)
>
> A lot of my projects are Py3-only. I have no problem with that.
>
> >> * Keep everything in the function signature
> >
> > I started taking this at heart with 3.0, after seeing the rather
> disgusting
> > constructs that had to be used in Clize 2.x for specifying aliases and
> value
> > converters. Now everything is annotations. Nothing in the docstring
> > specifies behavior, and it isn't even read at all until --help is
> triggered.
> > I intend to keep docstrings behavior-free because, well, they're strictly
> > for documentation IMO.
> >
> > What I mean to say, is that I am definitely committed to keeping
> everything
> > in the function signature. Probably even more than you :-)
>
> :)
>
> There's a spectrum of convenience:
>
> 1) The actual function signature - information that already exists.
> Function and parameter names, basically.
> 2) Annotations, directly attached to the parameters.
> 3) Docstrings and decorators, adjacent to the 'def' statement.
> 4) Code elsewhere in the file.
> 5) Code or directives in a separate file.
>
> Some of Clize stretches as far as level 4, and that's what I'd like to
> pull up a bit. With docstringargs, the only things at level 4 are
> generic setup - importing the module (unavoidable) and "if name is
> main, do stuff" (also unavoidable unless you want to put in some major
> MAJOR magic).
>
> (I took this spectrum from the discussions surrounding PEP 484,
> incidentally. I'm sure you won't be even *considering* having crucial
> command-line parsing out in a separate file, but that's precisely what
> type-hint stub files are.)
>
> >> There's a demo file in the source repo, plus here are a couple of
> >> actual usage examples:
> >>
> >> https://github.com/Rosuav/LetMeKnow/blob/master/letmeknow.py
> >> https://github.com/MikeiLL/appension/blob/master/fore/database.py
> >>
> >> The latter is an existing module in an existing project, and it grew a
> >> command-line interface with minimal changes, eg:
> >>
> >> https://github.com/MikeiLL/appension/commit/566f195
> >>
> >> Can we merge our plans and make a single module that's more likely to
> >> be maintained long-term? No point over-duplicating!
> >
> >
> > Agreed. I'm open to have more maintainers and to take input, but I have
> to
> > admit that at this stage of development, I'm quite attached to Clize's
> > existing codebase and features (although I'm always open to refactoring,
> and
> > the test suite helps with that).
>
> If Clize can implement something comparably simple to what I'm doing
> in the above examples, I'd be happy to drop docstringargs in favour of
> it. Basically, I didn't like how argparse code looked:
>
> https://github.com/Rosuav/snippets/blob/master/snippets.py
>
> (That file actually has a deliberate bug in it, which I intended to
> use as a demo of 'git bisect', but so far, haven't had a chance to do
> that with my students yet.)
>
> Taking the 'put' subcommand as an example, we have these lines of code
> to handle the CLI:
>
> 2: generic boilerplate (import)
> 10: function signature
> 11-15: docstring
> 33-35: generic boilerplate (setup)
> 39: repetition of function name and purpose
> 40-41: repetition of function arguments, now with their purposes
> 48-51: generic boilerplate (execution)
> 53: repetition of function name
> 54: repetition of function name
> 60-61: generic boilerplate (execution)
>
> That's a lot of separate pieces. Here's the docstringargs equivalent:
>
> https://github.com/Rosuav/snippets/blob/dsa/snippets.py
>
> 1-2: generic boilerplate (import/setup)
> 10: simple decorator
> 11: function signature
> 12-16: docstring
> 30-31: generic boilerplate (execution)
>
> All the put-specific code is in one place - the signature, plus one
> marker line above it, plus the docstring. It's not scattered all up
> and down the entire program. Adding another command is simply a matter
> of creating a new function. THAT is an important part of what I'm
> looking for; I don't want to have to go dig through five different
> places when I want to add or remove a subcommand.
>
> Can you put together a Clize equivalent? I'm pretty sure it's going to
> be remarkably close to what I want.
>

https://gist.github.com/epsy/fba26300fccb7e672729

It is pretty much the same save for the result formatting (clize prints
non-None results on its own then exits, although for your example I
understand the extra format step is necessary)

Annotated line numbers for "put": (PEP8 double-spacing increased the
numbers, sorry)

1-6: Boilerplate: imports
16: Function signature
17-22: Documentation (parameter descriptions need to be in their own
paragraph in Clize's default helper)
37-39: Defining a wrapper just for reformatting the result
42-43: defining the execution point and adding the result format decorator

The result formatting could be better. Maybe run could be made not to exit
upon success (but still upon failure) and return the evaluated value rather
than print it, or apply decorators en masse. I definitely see the appeal in
either.


> ChrisA
> --
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/attachments/20150429/2ba225b9/attachment.html>

From kaiser.yann at gmail.com  Tue Apr 28 21:58:53 2015
From: kaiser.yann at gmail.com (Yann Kaiser)
Date: Wed, 29 Apr 2015 01:58:53 +0000
Subject: Clize 3.0b1: An argument parser that draws a CLI from your
 function sigature
In-Reply-To: <20150428052856.GG32422@stoneleaf.us>
References: <CANUJvPWSO8bW3mNh1_wCH6qcoGtUE=9zJ71acdga8d0vViZZ8Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAPTjJmqbnupbzoKA20gMAT9pnkH1rr5XAsBLeqrjtFwC=6-2Ug@mail.gmail.com>
 <CANUJvPVCnJ146W5Jm-=L4ButFudZzPear3DpAzVbmbQGU7b1cw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAPTjJmqSni3m1nDvQgDmVmm5wgWY=GYM3DRqHeVGHA8tHfQ-uw@mail.gmail.com>
 <20150428052856.GG32422@stoneleaf.us>
Message-ID: <CANUJvPVqyye9QktTijUOtEpx9T-cB4_cfm7BU_q=3ZZGXh3ODQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, 27 Apr 2015 at 22:30 Ethan Furman <ethan at stoneleaf.us> wrote:

> On 04/28, Chris Angelico wrote:
>
> > That's a lot of separate pieces. Here's the docstringargs equivalent:
> >
> > https://github.com/Rosuav/snippets/blob/dsa/snippets.py
>
> Just for grins, here's that using Scription:
>
> -- 8< --------------------------------------------------------------------
> """Store and retrieve snippets of text"""
> from scription import *
> import logging
>
> # Set the log output file, and the log level
> logging.basicConfig(filename="snippets.log", level=logging.DEBUG)
>
> data = {}
>
> @Script()
> def main():
>     print('Result: {!r}'.format(script_command()))
>
>

> @Command(
>         name=('the name of the snippet', ),
>         snippet=('the snippet text', ),
>         )
> def put(name, snippet):
>

Blargh, this is exactly what I didn't like about Clize 2.x


>     "Store a snippet with an associated name."
>     logging.info("Storing({!r}, {!r})".format(name, snippet))
>     data[name] = snippet
>     return name, snippet
>
> @Command(
>         name=('the name of the snippet', ),
>         )
> def get(name):
>     "Retrieve the snippet with a given name."
>     logging.error("Retrieving({!r})".format(name))
>     return data.get(name)
>
> Main()
> -- 8< --------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> and a sample run with nothing selected:
>
> -- 8< --------------------------------------------------------------------
> $ python snippet
> Store and retrieve snippets of text
>
> snippet get NAME
>
>     Retrieve the snippet with a given name.
>
>     NAME   the name of the snippet
>
> snippet put NAME SNIPPET
>
>     Store a snippet with an associated name.
>
>     NAME      the name of the snippet
>     SNIPPET   the snippet text
> -- 8< --------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
> --
> ~Ethan~
> --
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/attachments/20150429/a78ab8e1/attachment.html>

From rosuav at gmail.com  Tue Apr 28 22:15:11 2015
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Wed, 29 Apr 2015 12:15:11 +1000
Subject: Clize 3.0b1: An argument parser that draws a CLI from your
 function sigature
In-Reply-To: <CANUJvPXqm=b9_oUsxCH0p2c+HfCoWb3vm2FyYMA=RDN6=P8s2Q@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CANUJvPWSO8bW3mNh1_wCH6qcoGtUE=9zJ71acdga8d0vViZZ8Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAPTjJmqbnupbzoKA20gMAT9pnkH1rr5XAsBLeqrjtFwC=6-2Ug@mail.gmail.com>
 <CANUJvPVCnJ146W5Jm-=L4ButFudZzPear3DpAzVbmbQGU7b1cw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAPTjJmqSni3m1nDvQgDmVmm5wgWY=GYM3DRqHeVGHA8tHfQ-uw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CANUJvPXqm=b9_oUsxCH0p2c+HfCoWb3vm2FyYMA=RDN6=P8s2Q@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmr6ur5cuy891+KFLds39fjSUvAHk4oiUsrY_Ab01nFtog@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Apr 29, 2015 at 11:55 AM, Yann Kaiser <kaiser.yann at gmail.com> wrote:
> I'm aware of the pattern, and I don't really like it, especially because it
> gets weird when multiple modules are involved. You'd have to import modules
> because they have a side-effect of adding stuff to a list rather than import
> things so that you can put them in a list. In addition, if Clize manages
> that list, it will be a global mutable object to take care of in tests and
> so forth. That'll be rather yucky.
> I like the straightforwardness of "names are imported or defined" -> "names
> are passed to run" (what is passed to run *is* what you get) rather than
> names are collected as side effect of this and that import then run looks at
> them (well, I could explore what all those imports are doing...).

Okay. That's a philosophical difference that I can understand. There
is some magic when the decorator hangs onto a reference, and
personally, I think it's worth it, but if you don't, that's fine. All
I'd need to do is have my own decorator that collects the functions up
into a list.

>> Can you put together a Clize equivalent? I'm pretty sure it's going to
>> be remarkably close to what I want.
>
>
> https://gist.github.com/epsy/fba26300fccb7e672729
>
> It is pretty much the same save for the result formatting (clize prints
> non-None results on its own then exits, although for your example I
> understand the extra format step is necessary)

I already hacked the output a bit compared to the original. Exact
details aren't a big deal. In the case of fore/database.py, the
precise formatting hardly matters; this is basically the bootstrapping
back end (when you have a completely empty database, the server won't
start, so you need to create yourself an account first), so it's okay
if it just prints out a tuple's repr.

> Annotated line numbers for "put": (PEP8 double-spacing increased the
> numbers, sorry)
>
> 1-6: Boilerplate: imports
> 16: Function signature
> 17-22: Documentation (parameter descriptions need to be in their own
> paragraph in Clize's default helper)
> 37-39: Defining a wrapper just for reformatting the result
> 42-43: defining the execution point and adding the result format decorator
>
> The result formatting could be better. Maybe run could be made not to exit
> upon success (but still upon failure) and return the evaluated value rather
> than print it, or apply decorators en masse. I definitely see the appeal in
> either.

Returning rather than printing would perhaps be nice in terms of
reducing the magic, but there's already some magic around (eg exiting
on failure; mine, since it chains through to argparse, exits on --help
or failure), so it's not a big deal.

So we're actually really REALLY close to each other here. This looks good!

ChrisA


From rustompmody at gmail.com  Wed Apr 29 00:05:31 2015
From: rustompmody at gmail.com (Rustom Mody)
Date: Tue, 28 Apr 2015 21:05:31 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Best GUI for Python
In-Reply-To: <mailman.39.1430119356.3680.python-list@python.org>
References: <87h9s311r6.fsf@Equus.decebal.nl>
 <553cffc2$0$12998$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <85d22qk54u.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
 <mailman.29.1430089600.3680.python-list@python.org>
 <mhkme8$4gd$1@dont-email.me>
 <mailman.39.1430119356.3680.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <749283fd-5b27-42c9-8d3d-1d1079a312ad@googlegroups.com>

On Monday, April 27, 2015 at 12:52:48 PM UTC+5:30, Chris Angelico wrote:
> On Mon, Apr 27, 2015 at 4:55 PM, Christian Gollwitzer  wrote:
> > Am 27.04.15 um 01:06 schrieb Chris Angelico:
> >>
> >> On Mon, Apr 27, 2015 at 6:26 AM, Ben Finney 
> >> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> It doesn't have to. By using the newer ?tkinter.ttk? library
> >>> <URL:https://docs.python.org/3/library/tkinter.ttk.html>, the GUI will
> >>> use native look-and-feel widgets.
> >>>
> >> Does the new library also deal with the ongoing issues with Unicode
> >> support? AIUI there's some fundamental problem with Tkinter which
> >> means that (possibly only on Windows?) non-BMP characters simply can't
> >> be displayed.
> >
> >
> > No. That is a fundamental limit in Tcl 8 (it uses UCS-2 to store strings),
> > and will probably only addressed in Tcl 9. ttk addresses mostly the theming
> > issue and is now "8 years new" (Tk 8.5a6) with a precursor (Tile) from ten
> > years ago.
> 
> Right, so this is an ongoing issue (at least for now).
> 
> >> To me, that's a pretty bad flaw - we should be aiming
> >> new projects at complete Unicode support, which means Python 3 and a
> >> good GUI toolkit.
> >
> >
> > YMMV. Is non-BMP needed for any living non-esoteric language? I agree that
> > it is a big flaw, but still is useful for very many projects.
> 
> Maybe not for the language itself, but then, you can transliterate
> Chinese using nothing but Roman letters and Arabic numerals (all in
> ASCII), so merely proving that you can represent text doesn't
> necessarily mean everything. Mainly, SMP characters are used for
> things like musical notes, mathematical symbols, emoticons, and so on.
> (Also, I'm not sure of the current state of the art as regards Chinese
> and Japanese characters.) If you support only the BMP, then you're far
> better off than supporting only ASCII or only <some eight-bit code
> page>, to be sure, but it's still cutting out some characters. For a
> program that already exists, already works, and can't handle non-BMP
> characters, it's a small issue, and not one that I'd be recommending a
> complete GUI toolkit replacement for; but for a green-field project, I
> would strongly recommend using Python 3 and some toolkit which
> supports the full Unicode range.

Everything else being equal this is likely fine advice.
However everything is rarely equal; eg the one time I tried to use wxpython
it segfaulted, probably the only time in 15 years of python-use that Ive
got python to segfault.

> 
> This is a problem that won't just "go away". As more SMP blocks get
> assigned, more people will start using them, and get frustrated at
> your program for not letting them. (And why should an end user need to
> know the difference between ? and ?, that the second one works and
> the first doesn't?) Unless you're willing to wait for a Python that
> ships Tcl 9, Tkinter is a choice that restricts your end users.

The issue is a bit subtle and nuanced
Python is 2 (at least) things
1. A fine unicode supporting framework
2. A glue for putting together systems composed of various components

Since some of those *other* components may break, it would be good for the
'glueness' of python to break more smoothly than it currently does.

http://blog.languager.org/2015/03/whimsical-unicode.html#half-assed
is a very non-exhaustive list ? not just Tkinter ? of 
- ostensibly unicode-supporting 
- actually SMP-borked
software

IOW it would be good if bugs (enhancements actually) like these be resolved:

http://bugs.python.org/issue23672
http://bugs.python.org/issue18814
http://bugs.python.org/issue22264


From steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info  Wed Apr 29 01:57:09 2015
From: steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: Wed, 29 Apr 2015 15:57:09 +1000
Subject: Question Installing latest Python
References: <70cf8ca0-beea-4f01-b962-beab1d54d2fd@googlegroups.com>
 <553cfec1$0$12998$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <c9c7c7ae-e5d8-4340-94fa-7216b353fc39@googlegroups.com>
 <553e4dd4$0$13004$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <b19f41e9-a3f5-47c2-b590-3c7a1e396094@googlegroups.com>
 <a2307bce-678d-4baf-a8d9-cb56278ff8bb@googlegroups.com>
 <55400cf5$0$13009$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <4d416348-6918-4674-b0c6-7ac2c04c5307@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <554072b7$0$11102$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>

On Wednesday 29 April 2015 12:50, ?????? ??????????????? wrote:

> The guide i followed is this one:
> https://devops.profitbricks.com/tutorials/install-python-3-in-centos-7/
> 
> The actual command i used to install Python 3.3.2 was this one:
> "yum -y install python33"
> 
> ===========================
> [root at secure tmp]# python3 -c "import sys; print(sys.executable)"
> 
> python3: error while loading shared libraries: libpython3.3m.so.1.0:
> cannot open shared object file: No such file object.


Okay, I googled that error message and I think I understand what is failing, 
even though I don't understand why it is failing.

First, run this as root:

ldconfig

That will tell your system to cache any shared libraries it knows about. yum 
is supposed to do that for you, but perhaps it didn't. Now try running the 
python3 test above. Does it work? Then the problem is solved and you can 
stop reading.

If you get the same error, then run this as root:

find /opt -name libpython3.3m.so.1.0

If it returns a single result, that's good. If it returns no results, try 
this instead:

find / -name libpython3.3m.so.1.0 2> /dev/null

It may take a while: it's going to search your entire hard drive. Hopefully 
that will return a single result: let's say it returns

/this/that/libpython3.3m.so.1.0

then you need to edit /etc/ld.so.conf and add this line to the end:

/this/that


Save your changes, run ldconfig again, and hopefully python3 will now work.


-- 
Steve



From Cecil at decebal.nl  Wed Apr 29 02:06:37 2015
From: Cecil at decebal.nl (Cecil Westerhof)
Date: Wed, 29 Apr 2015 08:06:37 +0200
Subject: Wrote a memoize function: I do not mind feedback
References: <87h9s1zoap.fsf@Equus.decebal.nl> <mhlh2f$plv$2@ger.gmane.org>
 <mailman.49.1430167261.3680.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <87y4lbxyc2.fsf@Equus.decebal.nl>

Op Monday 27 Apr 2015 22:35 CEST schreef Albert-Jan Roskam:

> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: Peter Otten <__peter__ at web.de>
>> To: python-list at python.org
>> Cc: 
>> Sent: Monday, April 27, 2015 4:28 PM
>> Subject: Re: Wrote a memoize function: I do not mind feedback
>>
>> Cecil Westerhof wrote:
>>
>>> I started again with Python. In Clojure you have memoize. I
>>> thought it nice to have this in Python also. So I wrote it. With a
>>> Fibonacci function to show the usefulness. You can find it here:
>>> https://github.com/CecilWesterhof/PythonLibrary
>>>
>>> I love to hear what you think of it.
>>>
>>> And ideas for other functionalities are welcome also. ?bung macht
>>> den Meister.
>>
>> See also: 
>>
>> https://docs.python.org/dev/library/functools.html#functools.lru_cache
>>
>> A bit hard to find unless you already know it's there.
>
> If you Google for memoization decorator, you will easily find many
> more implementations. Not 100 percent sure, but I think the LRU
> cache decorator was not exactly light weight. I also like this one
> from Martelli's Python Cookbook, where he uses a mutable default
> argument {a dictionary} to implement memoization. I believe I went
> like this:
>
>
> def some_func(arg, _memoize={}):
> try:
> return _memoize[arg]
> except KeyError:
> result = some_expensive_operation(arg)
> _memoize[arg] = result
> return result

That is in a way the same as what I do, except I do not use an
exception. Iunderstand it is not as expensive as it was anymore, but I
do not like to use an exception (when not necessary).

-- 
Cecil Westerhof
Senior Software Engineer
LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/cecilwesterhof


From kaiser.yann at gmail.com  Wed Apr 29 02:11:15 2015
From: kaiser.yann at gmail.com (Yann Kaiser)
Date: Wed, 29 Apr 2015 06:11:15 +0000
Subject: Clize 3.0b1: An argument parser that draws a CLI from your
 function sigature
In-Reply-To: <CAPTjJmr6ur5cuy891+KFLds39fjSUvAHk4oiUsrY_Ab01nFtog@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CANUJvPWSO8bW3mNh1_wCH6qcoGtUE=9zJ71acdga8d0vViZZ8Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAPTjJmqbnupbzoKA20gMAT9pnkH1rr5XAsBLeqrjtFwC=6-2Ug@mail.gmail.com>
 <CANUJvPVCnJ146W5Jm-=L4ButFudZzPear3DpAzVbmbQGU7b1cw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAPTjJmqSni3m1nDvQgDmVmm5wgWY=GYM3DRqHeVGHA8tHfQ-uw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CANUJvPXqm=b9_oUsxCH0p2c+HfCoWb3vm2FyYMA=RDN6=P8s2Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAPTjJmr6ur5cuy891+KFLds39fjSUvAHk4oiUsrY_Ab01nFtog@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CANUJvPUMS-uRROmkULoP5HYH3OZz=TMv549zss+MDtmuh=6RWg@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, 28 Apr 2015 at 19:16 Chris Angelico <rosuav at gmail.com> wrote:

> On Wed, Apr 29, 2015 at 11:55 AM, Yann Kaiser <kaiser.yann at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> > I'm aware of the pattern, and I don't really like it, especially because
> it
> > gets weird when multiple modules are involved. You'd have to import
> modules
> > because they have a side-effect of adding stuff to a list rather than
> import
> > things so that you can put them in a list. In addition, if Clize manages
> > that list, it will be a global mutable object to take care of in tests
> and
> > so forth. That'll be rather yucky.
> > I like the straightforwardness of "names are imported or defined" ->
> "names
> > are passed to run" (what is passed to run *is* what you get) rather than
> > names are collected as side effect of this and that import then run
> looks at
> > them (well, I could explore what all those imports are doing...).
>
> Okay. That's a philosophical difference that I can understand. There
> is some magic when the decorator hangs onto a reference, and
> personally, I think it's worth it, but if you don't, that's fine. All
> I'd need to do is have my own decorator that collects the functions up
> into a list.
>

Yeah, writing that feature is fairly easy. Telling users why their commands
aren't registered or why their circular import loop is blowing up isn'it.


> >> Can you put together a Clize equivalent? I'm pretty sure it's going to
> >> be remarkably close to what I want.
> >
> >
> > https://gist.github.com/epsy/fba26300fccb7e672729
> >
> > It is pretty much the same save for the result formatting (clize prints
> > non-None results on its own then exits, although for your example I
> > understand the extra format step is necessary)
>
> I already hacked the output a bit compared to the original. Exact
> details aren't a big deal. In the case of fore/database.py, the
> precise formatting hardly matters; this is basically the bootstrapping
> back end (when you have a completely empty database, the server won't
> start, so you need to create yourself an account first), so it's okay
> if it just prints out a tuple's repr.
>
> > Annotated line numbers for "put": (PEP8 double-spacing increased the
> > numbers, sorry)
> >
> > 1-6: Boilerplate: imports
> > 16: Function signature
> > 17-22: Documentation (parameter descriptions need to be in their own
> > paragraph in Clize's default helper)
> > 37-39: Defining a wrapper just for reformatting the result
> > 42-43: defining the execution point and adding the result format
> decorator
> >
> > The result formatting could be better. Maybe run could be made not to
> exit
> > upon success (but still upon failure) and return the evaluated value
> rather
> > than print it, or apply decorators en masse. I definitely see the appeal
> in
> > either.
>
> Returning rather than printing would perhaps be nice in terms of
> reducing the magic, but there's already some magic around (eg exiting
> on failure; mine, since it chains through to argparse, exits on --help
> or failure), so it's not a big deal.
>


>
> So we're actually really REALLY close to each other here. This looks good!
>

Indeed :-)


> ChrisA
> --
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/attachments/20150429/c72cde7a/attachment.html>

From Cecil at decebal.nl  Wed Apr 29 02:14:33 2015
From: Cecil at decebal.nl (Cecil Westerhof)
Date: Wed, 29 Apr 2015 08:14:33 +0200
Subject: Not possible to hide local variables
References: <874mo0zoz2.fsf@Equus.decebal.nl>
Message-ID: <87twvzxxyu.fsf@Equus.decebal.nl>

Op Tuesday 28 Apr 2015 09:33 CEST schreef Cecil Westerhof:

> If I remember correctly you can not hide variables of a class or
> make them read-only?
>
> I want to rewrite my moving average to python. The init is:
> def __init__(self, length):
> if type(length) != int:
> raise ParameterError, 'Parameter has to be an int'
> if n < 0:
> raise ValueError, 'Parameter should be greater or equal 2'
> self.length             = length
> self.old_values         = []
> self.current_total      = 0
>
> But when someone changes length, old_values, or current_total that
> would wreck havoc with my class instance. What is the best way to
> handle this?

I have posted it on:
    https://github.com/CecilWesterhof/PythonLibrary/blob/master/utilDecebal.py

-- 
Cecil Westerhof
Senior Software Engineer
LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/cecilwesterhof


From Cecil at decebal.nl  Wed Apr 29 02:16:01 2015
From: Cecil at decebal.nl (Cecil Westerhof)
Date: Wed, 29 Apr 2015 08:16:01 +0200
Subject: Not possible to hide local variables
References: <874mo0zoz2.fsf@Equus.decebal.nl>
 <mailman.57.1430207777.3680.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <87pp6nxxwe.fsf@Equus.decebal.nl>

Op Tuesday 28 Apr 2015 09:56 CEST schreef Ethan Furman:

> On 04/28, Cecil Westerhof wrote:
>> If I remember correctly you can not hide variables of a class or
>> make them read-only?
>>
>> I want to rewrite my moving average to python. The init is:
>> def __init__(self, length):
>> if type(length) != int:
>> raise ParameterError, 'Parameter has to be an int'
>> if n < 0:
>> raise ValueError, 'Parameter should be greater or equal 2'
>> self.length             = length
>> self.old_values         = []
>> self.current_total      = 0
>>
>> But when someone changes length, old_values, or current_total that
>> would wreck havoc with my class instance. What is the best way to
>> handle this?
>
> Prefix those names with a single leading underscore, which is the
> convention for private variables.

Done.


> This way, if some user (maybe you! ;) has a good reason to change
> those values in can be done, but it is quite clear that said user is
> mucking about with internals and they are on their own.

There is something to say for this way of working.

-- 
Cecil Westerhof
Senior Software Engineer
LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/cecilwesterhof


From Cecil at decebal.nl  Wed Apr 29 02:25:50 2015
From: Cecil at decebal.nl (Cecil Westerhof)
Date: Wed, 29 Apr 2015 08:25:50 +0200
Subject: Not possible to hide local variables
References: <874mo0zoz2.fsf@Equus.decebal.nl>
 <mailman.58.1430208384.3680.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <87lhhbxxg1.fsf@Equus.decebal.nl>

Op Tuesday 28 Apr 2015 10:06 CEST schreef Chris Angelico:

> In fact, it's not really your problem if someone gives you a length
> that isn't a simple integer. In the first place, they might give you
> a subclass of int, so a better check would be this:
>
> if not isinstance(length, int):
> raise ValueError("length should be integral")

Good tip: I implemented it.


> (note that I'm avoiding the multiple-argument syntax which doesn't
> work in Python 3;

I already did this with print. Are there other statements I have to
take care for the possible problems with Python 3? I do not use Python
3, but that does not mean it is not a good idea to make my modules
work with it.


> if ParameterError is a subclass of ValueError you
> could use that instead, but ValueError works)

Was the wrong error: should have been TypeError. I find this strange:
Python is compiled, but I get only an error when this statement is
reached.


> You don't even need to check that it's an integer. If you get
> something that can't be compared against 0, they'll get an instant
> exception; otherwise, the exception might come up later. But it's
> still not your problem. You could skip the nonnegativity check too,
> but that's good documentation. (I'm assuming that ought to be
> checking 'length', as there is no 'n' in your example.)

Yep, silly mistake. I now check for greater or equal two. A moving
average of length one is not very useful.

I am of the school that it is good to check as much as possible.
(Without going over the top.)

-- 
Cecil Westerhof
Senior Software Engineer
LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/cecilwesterhof


From Cecil at decebal.nl  Wed Apr 29 02:32:10 2015
From: Cecil at decebal.nl (Cecil Westerhof)
Date: Wed, 29 Apr 2015 08:32:10 +0200
Subject: Not possible to hide local variables
References: <874mo0zoz2.fsf@Equus.decebal.nl>
 <553f46d2$0$11124$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <87h9rzxx5h.fsf@Equus.decebal.nl>

Op Tuesday 28 Apr 2015 10:37 CEST schreef Steven D'Aprano:

> On Tuesday 28 April 2015 17:33, Cecil Westerhof wrote:
>
>> If I remember correctly you can not hide variables of a class or
>> make them read-only?
>
> In Python circles, the preferred terminology for class and instance
> members is "attributes" rather than variables. "Variable" is
> reserved for module- and function-level name bindings.

I will try to remember that.


> But other than that, you are correct. Python practices attribute
> hiding by convention. Names beginning with a single underscore like
> _spam or obj._eggs are treated as private.

Using that now.


> Names beginning with two underscores, but not trailing with
> underscores, are also name-mangled: obj.__eggs will be mangled to
> obj._TheClass__eggs. You should avoid name-mangling unless you
> really need it, don't use it "just in case".

What is a good reason?


> The convention is, if the caller messes with your private attributes
> or variables, and their code breaks, they have nobody to blame but
> themselves, and we are allowed to laugh at them. We're consenting
> adults here.

Coming from C/C++ and Java I have to get used to it, but I will manage
I think.


> Don't use a class at all. Moving average is best handled as a
> generator. We can use a regular generator:

Not in this case. The idea is that you do not know the elements at the
moment, but feed them to the MovingAverage instance as they come in.
See:
    https://github.com/CecilWesterhof/PythonLibrary/blob/master/utilDecebal.py


> If you must use a class, flag the internal attributes as private
> with a leading underscore. Your callers will respect that, and if
> they don't, all promises are null and void.

Done.

-- 
Cecil Westerhof
Senior Software Engineer
LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/cecilwesterhof


From steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info  Wed Apr 29 02:49:40 2015
From: steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: Wed, 29 Apr 2015 16:49:40 +1000
Subject: Question Installing latest Python
References: <70cf8ca0-beea-4f01-b962-beab1d54d2fd@googlegroups.com>
 <553cfec1$0$12998$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <c9c7c7ae-e5d8-4340-94fa-7216b353fc39@googlegroups.com>
 <553e4dd4$0$13004$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <b19f41e9-a3f5-47c2-b590-3c7a1e396094@googlegroups.com>
 <a2307bce-678d-4baf-a8d9-cb56278ff8bb@googlegroups.com>
 <55400cf5$0$13009$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <4d416348-6918-4674-b0c6-7ac2c04c5307@googlegroups.com>
 <554072b7$0$11102$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
 <61c897c7-d5bc-4c14-8c38-9850981a8858@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <55407f05$0$2924$c3e8da3$76491128@news.astraweb.com>

On Wednesday 29 April 2015 16:13, ?????? ??????????????? wrote:

> ?? ???????, 29 ???????? 2015 - 8:57:25 ?.?. UTC+3, ? ??????? Steven
> D'Aprano ??????:
> 
>> Okay, I googled that error message and I think I understand what is
>> failing, even though I don't understand why it is failing.
>> 
>> First, run this as root:
>> 
>> ldconfig
>> 
>> That will tell your system to cache any shared libraries it knows about.
>> yum is supposed to do that for you, but perhaps it didn't. Now try
>> running the python3 test above. Does it work? Then the problem is solved
>> and you can stop reading.
>> 
>> If you get the same error, then run this as root:
>> 
>> find /opt -name libpython3.3m.so.1.0
> 
> 
> Hello Steven,
> 
> I'am at that point, where the find outputed just 1 result.
> i run ldconfig but i still got the same error message.
> 
> Should i have done somethign with '/etc/ld.so.conf' althought it have
> returned just 1 result or that was for more results?


Run:

find /opt -name libpython3.3m.so.1.0

as root. If it returns NO results, you will have to run this instead:

find / -name libpython3.3m.so.1.0 2> /dev/null

But if it returns ONE result, take that result and extract the path. Say it 
returns:

/this/that/libpython3.3m.so.1.0


then the path you want is /this/that (without the / at the end). Edit 
/etc/ld.so.conf and add this line to the end:

/this/that

Save your changes, run ldconfig again, and hopefully python3 will now work.


If ldconfig gives you any errors, tell us what they are.



-- 
Steve



From ian.g.kelly at gmail.com  Wed Apr 29 03:02:39 2015
From: ian.g.kelly at gmail.com (Ian Kelly)
Date: Wed, 29 Apr 2015 01:02:39 -0600
Subject: Wrote a memoize function: I do not mind feedback
In-Reply-To: <87y4lbxyc2.fsf@Equus.decebal.nl>
References: <87h9s1zoap.fsf@Equus.decebal.nl> <mhlh2f$plv$2@ger.gmane.org>
 <mailman.49.1430167261.3680.python-list@python.org>
 <87y4lbxyc2.fsf@Equus.decebal.nl>
Message-ID: <CALwzidnemo_qn+LoFfpyK5eRBwikVs2_0vXGCUDFLJB0Wx5AKQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Apr 29, 2015 at 12:06 AM, Cecil Westerhof <Cecil at decebal.nl> wrote:
> Op Monday 27 Apr 2015 22:35 CEST schreef Albert-Jan Roskam:
>> def some_func(arg, _memoize={}):
>> try:
>> return _memoize[arg]
>> except KeyError:
>> result = some_expensive_operation(arg)
>> _memoize[arg] = result
>> return result
>
> That is in a way the same as what I do, except I do not use an
> exception. Iunderstand it is not as expensive as it was anymore, but I
> do not like to use an exception (when not necessary).

It's useful to keep in mind which case it is that you're trying to
optimize. The expensive case for exceptions is when one actually gets
raised. A try that doesn't raise an exception is pretty cheap,
probably cheaper than looking up the key in the dict twice as the code
you linked does. Compare:

>>> from timeit import timeit
>>> timeit("if x in y: y[x]", setup="x = 1; y = {1: 2}")
0.2224265851985905
>>> timeit("""
... try:
...     y[x]
... except KeyError:
...     pass
... """, setup="x = 1; y = {1: 2}")
0.15237198271520924

On the other hand, if the KeyError does get raised, then it will be
more expensive, but that would already be the expensive case for
memoized function, and if that computation isn't significantly more
expensive than the cost of raising an exception, then it probably
isn't worth memoizing in the first place.

Regardless of which way you write it, this sort of micro-optimization
hardly ever matters, and in the situations where it does matter,
you'll gain much more performance by rewriting in C than by
obsessively tuning your Python code.


From rosuav at gmail.com  Wed Apr 29 03:36:33 2015
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Wed, 29 Apr 2015 17:36:33 +1000
Subject: Not possible to hide local variables
In-Reply-To: <87lhhbxxg1.fsf@Equus.decebal.nl>
References: <874mo0zoz2.fsf@Equus.decebal.nl>
 <mailman.58.1430208384.3680.python-list@python.org>
 <87lhhbxxg1.fsf@Equus.decebal.nl>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmp=Vz9ECn9-5NBpPXKcsGwVQW5HUHEJRrdSbw+_XHDfCA@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Apr 29, 2015 at 4:25 PM, Cecil Westerhof <Cecil at decebal.nl> wrote:
> Op Tuesday 28 Apr 2015 10:06 CEST schreef Chris Angelico:
>> (note that I'm avoiding the multiple-argument syntax which doesn't
>> work in Python 3;
>
> I already did this with print. Are there other statements I have to
> take care for the possible problems with Python 3? I do not use Python
> 3, but that does not mean it is not a good idea to make my modules
> work with it.

As long as you can require a minimum Python version of 2.7 (usually
not hard these days; older Pythons are still around, but
diminishingly, and you can simply choose not to support them), it's
not too hard to make your code basically compatible. The biggest
change will be the bytes/unicode distinction; you can adorn your byte
strings with b"..." and your Unicode strings with u"...", but the hard
part is keeping track in your head of which one is which. For a lot of
programs, it's not difficult; ASCII strings fit happily into either
bytes or Unicode, so the bulk of your strings can be left unadorned.

>> if ParameterError is a subclass of ValueError you
>> could use that instead, but ValueError works)
>
> Was the wrong error: should have been TypeError. I find this strange:
> Python is compiled, but I get only an error when this statement is
> reached.

As Python code gets compiled, names get turned into either locals or
external lookups. You can inspect a function interactively:

>>> def checkme(x):
...     if x < 0: raise BotchedError("Oops")
...     return x + 1
...
>>> checkme.__code__.co_names
('BotchedError',)
>>> checkme.__code__.co_varnames
('x',)

Local variable are turned into special slots, matching co_varnames;
global name lookups are done at run time. This allows mutual
recursion:

def func1(x):
    if x % 2: return x - 1
    return func2(x + 2)

def func2(x):
    if x % 3: return x
    return func1(x - 4)

At compilation time, func1 has a global name reference that can't be
resolved... but by the time anyone gets to calling it, the module has
gained a func2, and all is well. If you want to check your code for
name mistakes, you could do something like this:

# checker.py
import sys
def check_module(module):
    mod = sys.modules[module]
    for attr in dir(mod):
        thing = getattr(mod, attr)
        try: names = thing.__code__.co_names
        except AttributeError: continue # Not a function
        for name in names:
            if name not in dir(mod) and name not in dir(mod.__builtins__):
                raise NameError("Function %s refers to %s which
doesn't exist" % (attr, name))

Then you just put this line at the bottom of your code to see if there
are any potential problems:

import checker; checker.check_module(__name__)

Alternatively, you could build functionality like this into a linter
or other code quality confirmation. For most code, this will be a safe
check; it is theoretically possible for a module to grow a new
attribute between the end of module execution and the actual calling
of a function (which is why the interpreter itself doesn't check like
this), but it's sufficiently unusual that you could safely disallow it
in your style guide or source control policy.

> I am of the school that it is good to check as much as possible.
> (Without going over the top.)

One of the key differences between the C++/Java mentality and the
Python mentality is that, while both schools of thought would broadly
agree with what you say here, we draw the line of "over the top" at
different places. In Java code, you're expected to type-check
everything; in Python code, just use it, and if the caller gives you
the wrong data type, that's his problem, not yours. In Java code,
exceptions are there to be carefully documented - "this function might
raise this/these exception(s)", and its callers have to decide at
compilation time whether they're going to handle them or let them
bubble. In Python code, unexpected exceptions are generally expected
to bubble all the way up to a generic handler - for most applications,
that means printing the exception to the console and terminating. You
deal with things you know how to deal with, and any weird things that
happen, again, not your problem. Neither philosophy is fundamentally
wrong, but other Java programmers will get very annoyed at you if you
adopt a Python style in Java code (using RuntimeError for everything,
and checking nothing), and your Python code will get unnecessarily
verbose and heavy if you adopt a Java style in Python code. It's up to
you to decide how worthwhile it is, but I recommend at least giving
the Python style a try (pun not intended); you may well like it, or
you may find that you want at least a bit more pre-checking, but
either way, you'll know why.

All the best!

ChrisA


From Cecil at decebal.nl  Wed Apr 29 04:04:21 2015
From: Cecil at decebal.nl (Cecil Westerhof)
Date: Wed, 29 Apr 2015 10:04:21 +0200
Subject: Wrote a memoize function: I do not mind feedback
References: <87h9s1zoap.fsf@Equus.decebal.nl> <mhlh2f$plv$2@ger.gmane.org>
 <mailman.49.1430167261.3680.python-list@python.org>
 <87y4lbxyc2.fsf@Equus.decebal.nl>
 <mailman.74.1430291009.3680.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <87d22nxsvu.fsf@Equus.decebal.nl>

Op Wednesday 29 Apr 2015 09:02 CEST schreef Ian Kelly:

> On Wed, Apr 29, 2015 at 12:06 AM, Cecil Westerhof <Cecil at decebal.nl> wrote:
>> Op Monday 27 Apr 2015 22:35 CEST schreef Albert-Jan Roskam:
>>> def some_func(arg, _memoize={}):
>>> try:
>>> return _memoize[arg]
>>> except KeyError:
>>> result = some_expensive_operation(arg)
>>> _memoize[arg] = result
>>> return result
>>
>> That is in a way the same as what I do, except I do not use an
>> exception. Iunderstand it is not as expensive as it was anymore,
>> but I do not like to use an exception (when not necessary).
>
> It's useful to keep in mind which case it is that you're trying to
> optimize. The expensive case for exceptions is when one actually
> gets raised. A try that doesn't raise an exception is pretty cheap,
> probably cheaper than looking up the key in the dict twice as the
> code you linked does. Compare:

It is not only performance wise, I find the code without the try also
better looking. But that is very personally I suppose.

-- 
Cecil Westerhof
Senior Software Engineer
LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/cecilwesterhof


From Cecil at decebal.nl  Wed Apr 29 04:29:47 2015
From: Cecil at decebal.nl (Cecil Westerhof)
Date: Wed, 29 Apr 2015 10:29:47 +0200
Subject: Using + with strings considered bad
Message-ID: <878udbxrpg.fsf@Equus.decebal.nl>

Because I try to keep my lines (well) below 80 characters, I use the
following:
    print('Calculating fibonacci and fibonacci_memoize once for ' +
          str(large_fibonacci) + ' to determine speed increase')

But I was told that using + with strings was bad practice. Is this
true? If so, what is the better way to do this?

-- 
Cecil Westerhof
Senior Software Engineer
LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/cecilwesterhof


From agssulis at gmail.com  Wed Apr 29 04:45:06 2015
From: agssulis at gmail.com (agssulis at gmail.com)
Date: Wed, 29 Apr 2015 01:45:06 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Survey Request for Research related to Software Engineering and
 Social Media
Message-ID: <ae371bdd-d435-4769-9577-57cbf11c297e@googlegroups.com>

Hi All,

We are a group of researchers interested in knowing how Software Developers can make best use of Social Media in their work. We would be very grateful if you could help us in understanding on what kind of Twitter accounts you would like to follow to help you with Software Development activities. Can you Please fill in the survey provided below:

https://docs.google.com/forms/d/17wVTTypyBA9UQ72n3P7N6TMd4w-o4cTf9miSOyF446Y/viewform

Filling the survey should not take more than 5 minutes; however at any moment if you feel like not continuing further, please feel free to drop. We would appreciate that in case you do fill the survey please answer all the questions honestly and without any bias.

This is an academic research project with no commercial interests. We are not collecting any personal data (except basic demographic data) in this survey and also will anonymize any private data we accidentally come across. We promise to handle all your responses confidentially.

Thanks a lot for participating!!!!

Best Regards,
Agus


From breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk  Wed Apr 29 04:58:44 2015
From: breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk (Mark Lawrence)
Date: Wed, 29 Apr 2015 09:58:44 +0100
Subject: Wrote a memoize function: I do not mind feedback
In-Reply-To: <87d22nxsvu.fsf@Equus.decebal.nl>
References: <87h9s1zoap.fsf@Equus.decebal.nl> <mhlh2f$plv$2@ger.gmane.org>
 <mailman.49.1430167261.3680.python-list@python.org>
 <87y4lbxyc2.fsf@Equus.decebal.nl>
 <mailman.74.1430291009.3680.python-list@python.org>
 <87d22nxsvu.fsf@Equus.decebal.nl>
Message-ID: <mhq6g6$b0a$1@ger.gmane.org>

On 29/04/2015 09:04, Cecil Westerhof wrote:
> Op Wednesday 29 Apr 2015 09:02 CEST schreef Ian Kelly:
>
>> On Wed, Apr 29, 2015 at 12:06 AM, Cecil Westerhof <Cecil at decebal.nl> wrote:
>>> Op Monday 27 Apr 2015 22:35 CEST schreef Albert-Jan Roskam:
>>>> def some_func(arg, _memoize={}):
>>>> try:
>>>> return _memoize[arg]
>>>> except KeyError:
>>>> result = some_expensive_operation(arg)
>>>> _memoize[arg] = result
>>>> return result
>>>
>>> That is in a way the same as what I do, except I do not use an
>>> exception. Iunderstand it is not as expensive as it was anymore,
>>> but I do not like to use an exception (when not necessary).
>>
>> It's useful to keep in mind which case it is that you're trying to
>> optimize. The expensive case for exceptions is when one actually
>> gets raised. A try that doesn't raise an exception is pretty cheap,
>> probably cheaper than looking up the key in the dict twice as the
>> code you linked does. Compare:
>
> It is not only performance wise, I find the code without the try also
> better looking. But that is very personally I suppose.
>

You might find this interesting 
http://www.jeffknupp.com/blog/2013/02/06/write-cleaner-python-use-exceptions/

-- 
My fellow Pythonistas, ask not what our language can do for you, ask
what you can do for our language.

Mark Lawrence



From breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk  Wed Apr 29 05:03:01 2015
From: breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk (Mark Lawrence)
Date: Wed, 29 Apr 2015 10:03:01 +0100
Subject: Best GUI for Python
In-Reply-To: <749283fd-5b27-42c9-8d3d-1d1079a312ad@googlegroups.com>
References: <87h9s311r6.fsf@Equus.decebal.nl>
 <553cffc2$0$12998$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <85d22qk54u.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
 <mailman.29.1430089600.3680.python-list@python.org>
 <mhkme8$4gd$1@dont-email.me>
 <mailman.39.1430119356.3680.python-list@python.org>
 <749283fd-5b27-42c9-8d3d-1d1079a312ad@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <mhq6o7$ejh$1@ger.gmane.org>

On 29/04/2015 05:05, Rustom Mody wrote:
> On Monday, April 27, 2015 at 12:52:48 PM UTC+5:30, Chris Angelico wrote:
>> On Mon, Apr 27, 2015 at 4:55 PM, Christian Gollwitzer  wrote:
>>> Am 27.04.15 um 01:06 schrieb Chris Angelico:
>>>>
>>>> On Mon, Apr 27, 2015 at 6:26 AM, Ben Finney
>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> It doesn't have to. By using the newer ?tkinter.ttk? library
>>>>> <URL:https://docs.python.org/3/library/tkinter.ttk.html>, the GUI will
>>>>> use native look-and-feel widgets.
>>>>>
>>>> Does the new library also deal with the ongoing issues with Unicode
>>>> support? AIUI there's some fundamental problem with Tkinter which
>>>> means that (possibly only on Windows?) non-BMP characters simply can't
>>>> be displayed.
>>>
>>>
>>> No. That is a fundamental limit in Tcl 8 (it uses UCS-2 to store strings),
>>> and will probably only addressed in Tcl 9. ttk addresses mostly the theming
>>> issue and is now "8 years new" (Tk 8.5a6) with a precursor (Tile) from ten
>>> years ago.
>>
>> Right, so this is an ongoing issue (at least for now).
>>
>>>> To me, that's a pretty bad flaw - we should be aiming
>>>> new projects at complete Unicode support, which means Python 3 and a
>>>> good GUI toolkit.
>>>
>>>
>>> YMMV. Is non-BMP needed for any living non-esoteric language? I agree that
>>> it is a big flaw, but still is useful for very many projects.
>>
>> Maybe not for the language itself, but then, you can transliterate
>> Chinese using nothing but Roman letters and Arabic numerals (all in
>> ASCII), so merely proving that you can represent text doesn't
>> necessarily mean everything. Mainly, SMP characters are used for
>> things like musical notes, mathematical symbols, emoticons, and so on.
>> (Also, I'm not sure of the current state of the art as regards Chinese
>> and Japanese characters.) If you support only the BMP, then you're far
>> better off than supporting only ASCII or only <some eight-bit code
>> page>, to be sure, but it's still cutting out some characters. For a
>> program that already exists, already works, and can't handle non-BMP
>> characters, it's a small issue, and not one that I'd be recommending a
>> complete GUI toolkit replacement for; but for a green-field project, I
>> would strongly recommend using Python 3 and some toolkit which
>> supports the full Unicode range.
>
> Everything else being equal this is likely fine advice.
> However everything is rarely equal; eg the one time I tried to use wxpython
> it segfaulted, probably the only time in 15 years of python-use that Ive
> got python to segfault.
>
>>
>> This is a problem that won't just "go away". As more SMP blocks get
>> assigned, more people will start using them, and get frustrated at
>> your program for not letting them. (And why should an end user need to
>> know the difference between ? and ?, that the second one works and
>> the first doesn't?) Unless you're willing to wait for a Python that
>> ships Tcl 9, Tkinter is a choice that restricts your end users.
>
> The issue is a bit subtle and nuanced
> Python is 2 (at least) things
> 1. A fine unicode supporting framework
> 2. A glue for putting together systems composed of various components
>
> Since some of those *other* components may break, it would be good for the
> 'glueness' of python to break more smoothly than it currently does.
>
> http://blog.languager.org/2015/03/whimsical-unicode.html#half-assed
> is a very non-exhaustive list ? not just Tkinter ? of
> - ostensibly unicode-supporting
> - actually SMP-borked
> software
>
> IOW it would be good if bugs (enhancements actually) like these be resolved:
>
> http://bugs.python.org/issue23672
> http://bugs.python.org/issue18814
> http://bugs.python.org/issue22264
>

Those who can do, those who can't teach :)

-- 
My fellow Pythonistas, ask not what our language can do for you, ask
what you can do for our language.

Mark Lawrence



From breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk  Wed Apr 29 05:08:41 2015
From: breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk (Mark Lawrence)
Date: Wed, 29 Apr 2015 10:08:41 +0100
Subject: Using + with strings considered bad
In-Reply-To: <878udbxrpg.fsf@Equus.decebal.nl>
References: <878udbxrpg.fsf@Equus.decebal.nl>
Message-ID: <mhq72r$jr9$1@ger.gmane.org>

On 29/04/2015 09:29, Cecil Westerhof wrote:
> Because I try to keep my lines (well) below 80 characters, I use the
> following:
>      print('Calculating fibonacci and fibonacci_memoize once for ' +
>            str(large_fibonacci) + ' to determine speed increase')
>
> But I was told that using + with strings was bad practice. Is this
> true? If so, what is the better way to do this?
>

It's not bad practice as such, it's simply that performance takes a nose 
dive if you're contatenating large numbers of strings.  If performance 
is an issue the recommended way is to write.

' '.join(strings)

-- 
My fellow Pythonistas, ask not what our language can do for you, ask
what you can do for our language.

Mark Lawrence



From greg.ewing at canterbury.ac.nz  Wed Apr 29 05:22:18 2015
From: greg.ewing at canterbury.ac.nz (Gregory Ewing)
Date: Wed, 29 Apr 2015 21:22:18 +1200
Subject: Function decorator having arguments is complicated
In-Reply-To: <553de6f1$0$12905$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
References: <mailman.31.1430102277.3680.python-list@python.org>
 <553de6f1$0$12905$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <cqbm6bFdooeU1@mid.individual.net>

> On Monday 27 April 2015 12:37, Makoto Kuwata wrote:
> 
>>  def multiply(n):
>>    def deco(func):
>>      def newfunc(*args, **kwargs):
>>        return n * func(*args, **kwargs)
>>      return newfunc
>>    return deco

I'd like to be able to write that as

    def multiply(n)(func)(*args, **kwargs):
       return n * func(*args, **kwargs)

-- 
Greg


From __peter__ at web.de  Wed Apr 29 05:24:51 2015
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Wed, 29 Apr 2015 11:24:51 +0200
Subject: Using + with strings considered bad
References: <878udbxrpg.fsf@Equus.decebal.nl>
Message-ID: <mhq814$4hm$1@ger.gmane.org>

Cecil Westerhof wrote:

> Because I try to keep my lines (well) below 80 characters, I use the
> following:
>     print('Calculating fibonacci and fibonacci_memoize once for ' +
>           str(large_fibonacci) + ' to determine speed increase')
> 
> But I was told that using + with strings was bad practice. Is this
> true? 

No. What was meant was probably that str.join() is preferred when you are to 
concat an arbitrary number of strings, i. e.

# wrong
s = ""
for item in items:
    s += " " + item.name # may be inefficient depending on implementation
s = s[1:]

# correct
s = " ".join(item.name for item in items)

(For more complex operations than just getting an attribute you may have to 
write a helper generator:

def bogus(items):
    prev = ""
    for item in items:
        yield str(len(prev) - len(item))
        prev = item

s = "*".join(bogus(items))
)

> If so, what is the better way to do this?
 
Python concats adjacent string constants implicitly

>>> "one" "two"
'onetwo'

but in CPython an extra + will be removed by the peephole optimiser:

>>> def f(): return "one" + "two"
... 
>>> import dis
>>> dis.dis(f)
  1           0 LOAD_CONST               3 ('onetwo')
              3 RETURN_VALUE


>     print('Calculating fibonacci and fibonacci_memoize once for ' +
>           str(large_fibonacci) + ' to determine speed increase')

You could write that as

print('Calculating fibonacci and fibonacci_memoize once for '
      '{} to determine speed increase'.format(large_fibonacci))

but in a simple case like yours I'd go with the obvious

print(
    'Calculating fibonacci and fibonacci_memoize once for',
    large_fibonacci,
    'to determine speed increase')




From subhabrata.banerji at gmail.com  Wed Apr 29 05:45:13 2015
From: subhabrata.banerji at gmail.com (subhabrata.banerji at gmail.com)
Date: Wed, 29 Apr 2015 02:45:13 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Accessing file from Remote location
Message-ID: <ab2b1782-98d6-4049-a84e-c2a45c2abf16@googlegroups.com>

Dear Group,

I have a good amount of data in a remote location. 
It is in MySql Database. I am trying to access it as,
>>> import pymysql
>>> import pymysql.cursors
...
...
with connection.cursor() as cursor:
		# Read a single record
                sql = "SELECT candidateid,cnd.FirstName, cnd.LastName,Concat('\\xxx.xxx.x.xxx\files\Cand_Res/',orgguid,'/',DATE_FORMAT(cnd.createddate,'%Y%m'),'/',candidateguid,'/',File) as filePath  from candidate cnd join mstorganization org on cnd.orgid = org.OrgId order by cnd.modifieddate limit 1"
                cursor.execute(sql)
		result = cursor.fetchone()
		print(result)

Now I am getting the file path.

I am trying to open this file in Python.

I tried options as, 
f=open("//remote_machine/folder1/file1.doc", "r"),
f=open("\\\\remote_machine\\folder1\\file1.doc", "r")
...
....
given in 
https://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-win32/2009-February/008847.html
and in
http://www.thecodingforums.com/threads/how-to-open-a-remote-file-using-python.671892/

but I am not being able to open it. 

Am I doing any error? 

If I run the path I am getting the document.

My document path is:
\\xxx.xxx.x.xxx\Files\Cand_Res/0FB45CD9-B9E3-4ED5-BBD0-B0EA3DA62B2E/201308/da0791ba-b123-4cfc-ac1e-5a42af2091d8/2f14e4b3-4fb8-4e5f-bcb8-f5d34ee9ab8d.doc

I am using Python 2.7.6 | 64-bit | (default, Sep 15 2014, 17:36:35) [MSC v.1500 64 bit (AMD64)] on win32 Enthought
Canopy. This is not my default Python location. 
My current directory is:
>>> os.getcwd()
'C:\\Windows\\system32'
>>> 

I am using Windows 7 Professional 64 bit. 

If any body may kindly suggest. 

Regards,
Subhabrata Banerjee. 













From robin at reportlab.com  Wed Apr 29 06:51:41 2015
From: robin at reportlab.com (Robin Becker)
Date: Wed, 29 Apr 2015 11:51:41 +0100
Subject: mac os core dump from detached process
In-Reply-To: <1274A595-99D7-40E9-A18D-0B833B18320F@mac.com>
References: <553DFF8E.6090607@chamonix.reportlab.co.uk>
 <1274A595-99D7-40E9-A18D-0B833B18320F@mac.com>
Message-ID: <5540B7BD.9070608@chamonix.reportlab.co.uk>

On 27/04/2015 11:29, Colin McPhail wrote:
...........
>>
>> Is it possible to get core dumps on the Mac for  debugging purposes? Would the detached process inherit flags etc etc from the starting process? I know little about OS X/Mach.
>>
>
> My first thought would be to run Applications -> Utilities -> Console and look for a crash report under ?User Diagnostic Reports? in the sidebar. I?m not entirely sure what my second thought would be if there wasn?t a report there.
>
> ? CMcP
>

my colleague is suggesting ulimit -c unlimited in the terminal before starting 
the django runserver will probably do the trick. What I don't know is if the 
process started by a view that then detaches will inherit the flags and dump 
core properly. I have a mac test platform now and will attempt something myself.
-- 
Robin Becker



From robin at reportlab.com  Wed Apr 29 06:51:41 2015
From: robin at reportlab.com (Robin Becker)
Date: Wed, 29 Apr 2015 11:51:41 +0100
Subject: mac os core dump from detached process
In-Reply-To: <1274A595-99D7-40E9-A18D-0B833B18320F@mac.com>
References: <553DFF8E.6090607@chamonix.reportlab.co.uk>
 <1274A595-99D7-40E9-A18D-0B833B18320F@mac.com>
Message-ID: <5540B7BD.9070608@chamonix.reportlab.co.uk>

On 27/04/2015 11:29, Colin McPhail wrote:
...........
>>
>> Is it possible to get core dumps on the Mac for  debugging purposes? Would the detached process inherit flags etc etc from the starting process? I know little about OS X/Mach.
>>
>
> My first thought would be to run Applications -> Utilities -> Console and look for a crash report under ?User Diagnostic Reports? in the sidebar. I?m not entirely sure what my second thought would be if there wasn?t a report there.
>
> ? CMcP
>

my colleague is suggesting ulimit -c unlimited in the terminal before starting 
the django runserver will probably do the trick. What I don't know is if the 
process started by a view that then detaches will inherit the flags and dump 
core properly. I have a mac test platform now and will attempt something myself.
-- 
Robin Becker


From Cecil at decebal.nl  Wed Apr 29 07:17:17 2015
From: Cecil at decebal.nl (Cecil Westerhof)
Date: Wed, 29 Apr 2015 13:17:17 +0200
Subject: Using + with strings considered bad
References: <878udbxrpg.fsf@Equus.decebal.nl>
 <mailman.79.1430299516.3680.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <87y4lbchfm.fsf@Equus.decebal.nl>

Op Wednesday 29 Apr 2015 11:24 CEST schreef Peter Otten:

> Cecil Westerhof wrote:
>
>> Because I try to keep my lines (well) below 80 characters, I use
>> the following: print('Calculating fibonacci and fibonacci_memoize
>> once for ' + str(large_fibonacci) + ' to determine speed increase')
>>
>> But I was told that using + with strings was bad practice. Is this
>> true? 

[...]

>> print('Calculating fibonacci and fibonacci_memoize once for ' +
>> str(large_fibonacci) + ' to determine speed increase')
>
> You could write that as
>
> print('Calculating fibonacci and fibonacci_memoize once for '
> '{} to determine speed increase'.format(large_fibonacci))
>
> but in a simple case like yours I'd go with the obvious
>
> print(
> 'Calculating fibonacci and fibonacci_memoize once for',
> large_fibonacci,
> 'to determine speed increase')

I have gone for this option. Thanks.

-- 
Cecil Westerhof
Senior Software Engineer
LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/cecilwesterhof


From Cecil at decebal.nl  Wed Apr 29 07:24:57 2015
From: Cecil at decebal.nl (Cecil Westerhof)
Date: Wed, 29 Apr 2015 13:24:57 +0200
Subject: str more precise in 3 as 2.7
Message-ID: <87twvzch2u.fsf@Equus.decebal.nl>

I am trying to make my modules also work under Python 3. I found that
str is more precise in Python 3. The expression:
    str(134 / 6.0)
gives in 2.7.8:
    '22.3333333333'
and in 3.4.1:
    '22.333333333333332'

Was not very hard to solve:
    if python_version == 3:
        output06[5] = '22.333333333333332'
        output10[5] = '23.333333333333332'
        output10[8] = '24.77777777777778'

Earlier I did:
    import sys

    # For when the difference between 2 and 3 is important
    python_version = sys.version_info[0]

At the moment I use it only once, but it is never bad to be prepared.

-- 
Cecil Westerhof
Senior Software Engineer
LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/cecilwesterhof


From aberg010 at my.hennepintech.edu  Wed Apr 29 07:40:47 2015
From: aberg010 at my.hennepintech.edu (Andrew Berg)
Date: Wed, 29 Apr 2015 06:40:47 -0500
Subject: Using + with strings considered bad
In-Reply-To: <mhq72r$jr9$1@ger.gmane.org>
References: <878udbxrpg.fsf@Equus.decebal.nl> <mhq72r$jr9$1@ger.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <5540C33F.6020003@my.hennepintech.edu>

On 2015.04.29 04:08, Mark Lawrence wrote:
> On 29/04/2015 09:29, Cecil Westerhof wrote:
>> Because I try to keep my lines (well) below 80 characters, I use the
>> following:
>>      print('Calculating fibonacci and fibonacci_memoize once for ' +
>>            str(large_fibonacci) + ' to determine speed increase')
>>
>> But I was told that using + with strings was bad practice. Is this
>> true? If so, what is the better way to do this?
>>
> 
> It's not bad practice as such, it's simply that performance takes a nose 
> dive if you're contatenating large numbers of strings.  If performance 
> is an issue the recommended way is to write.
> 
> ' '.join(strings)
> 
I thought it was frowned upon because it's less readable for anything non-trivial.

hero1 = 'Batman'
hero2 = 'Robin'
villain = 'The Joker'
place = 'Gotham City'

sentence = hero1 + " and " + hero2 + " fight " + villain + " in " + place + "."
# doesn't flow as well as:
sentence = "{hero1} and {hero2} fight {villain} in {place}.".format(
		hero1=hero1,hero2=hero2,villain=villain,place=place)



From steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info  Wed Apr 29 07:42:53 2015
From: steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: Wed, 29 Apr 2015 21:42:53 +1000
Subject: Question Installing latest Python
References: <70cf8ca0-beea-4f01-b962-beab1d54d2fd@googlegroups.com>
 <553cfec1$0$12998$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <c9c7c7ae-e5d8-4340-94fa-7216b353fc39@googlegroups.com>
 <553e4dd4$0$13004$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <b19f41e9-a3f5-47c2-b590-3c7a1e396094@googlegroups.com>
 <a2307bce-678d-4baf-a8d9-cb56278ff8bb@googlegroups.com>
 <55400cf5$0$13009$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <4d416348-6918-4674-b0c6-7ac2c04c5307@googlegroups.com>
 <554072b7$0$11102$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
 <61c897c7-d5bc-4c14-8c38-9850981a8858@googlegroups.com>
 <55407f05$0$2924$c3e8da3$76491128@news.astraweb.com>
 <45e48150-1ebc-40aa-90b0-af18109d33da@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <5540c3bd$0$12998$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

On Wed, 29 Apr 2015 04:57 pm, ?????? ??????????????? wrote:

> Thank you very much Steven!
> 
> Indeed it worked!!
> 
> One last thing. Can you please explain to me inplain English what exactly
> was that weird problem?

Probably not. I'm not a C expert and don't really understand in full detail
how dynamic shared libraries work.

I *think* the problem was that Python was built to use dynamic libraries,
but couldn't find them. I'm not sure how that works at the C level, but my
guess is that it is something like importing a Python module. The Python
executable couldn't find the libpython3.3m.so.1.0 shared library, so you
used ldconfig to tell it where to find it.



-- 
Steven



From breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk  Wed Apr 29 07:50:59 2015
From: breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk (Mark Lawrence)
Date: Wed, 29 Apr 2015 12:50:59 +0100
Subject: str more precise in 3 as 2.7
In-Reply-To: <87twvzch2u.fsf@Equus.decebal.nl>
References: <87twvzch2u.fsf@Equus.decebal.nl>
Message-ID: <mhqgj5$qo3$1@ger.gmane.org>

On 29/04/2015 12:24, Cecil Westerhof wrote:
> I am trying to make my modules also work under Python 3. I found that
> str is more precise in Python 3. The expression:
>      str(134 / 6.0)
> gives in 2.7.8:
>      '22.3333333333'
> and in 3.4.1:
>      '22.333333333333332'
>
> Was not very hard to solve:
>      if python_version == 3:
>          output06[5] = '22.333333333333332'
>          output10[5] = '23.333333333333332'
>          output10[8] = '24.77777777777778'
>
> Earlier I did:
>      import sys
>
>      # For when the difference between 2 and 3 is important
>      python_version = sys.version_info[0]
>
> At the moment I use it only once, but it is never bad to be prepared.
>

They simply output different numbers of digits by default.  Just control 
the number of digits that you want to see and in this case you needn't 
worry again about Python 2 vs 3 differences.  See either

https://docs.python.org/3/library/string.html#formatspec

or

https://docs.python.org/3/library/stdtypes.html#printf-style-string-formatting

-- 
My fellow Pythonistas, ask not what our language can do for you, ask
what you can do for our language.

Mark Lawrence



From Cecil at decebal.nl  Wed Apr 29 07:52:01 2015
From: Cecil at decebal.nl (Cecil Westerhof)
Date: Wed, 29 Apr 2015 13:52:01 +0200
Subject: Wrote a memoize function: I do not mind feedback
References: <87h9s1zoap.fsf@Equus.decebal.nl> <mhlh2f$plv$2@ger.gmane.org>
 <mailman.49.1430167261.3680.python-list@python.org>
 <87y4lbxyc2.fsf@Equus.decebal.nl>
 <mailman.74.1430291009.3680.python-list@python.org>
 <87d22nxsvu.fsf@Equus.decebal.nl>
 <mailman.76.1430297954.3680.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <87pp6ncftq.fsf@Equus.decebal.nl>

Op Wednesday 29 Apr 2015 10:58 CEST schreef Mark Lawrence:

>> It is not only performance wise, I find the code without the try
>> also better looking. But that is very personally I suppose.
>>
>
> You might find this interesting
> http://www.jeffknupp.com/blog/2013/02/06/write-cleaner-python-use-exceptions/

I certainly agree in the print_object case. Well maybe I have to get
used to python again. ;-)

-- 
Cecil Westerhof
Senior Software Engineer
LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/cecilwesterhof


From rosuav at gmail.com  Wed Apr 29 07:55:27 2015
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Wed, 29 Apr 2015 21:55:27 +1000
Subject: str more precise in 3 as 2.7
In-Reply-To: <87twvzch2u.fsf@Equus.decebal.nl>
References: <87twvzch2u.fsf@Equus.decebal.nl>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmr8urDY-NgRPXeDBEZ2sU=MkcxkgGo5PWfpCRO_mHpYaQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Apr 29, 2015 at 9:24 PM, Cecil Westerhof <Cecil at decebal.nl> wrote:
> I am trying to make my modules also work under Python 3. I found that
> str is more precise in Python 3. The expression:
>     str(134 / 6.0)
> gives in 2.7.8:
>     '22.3333333333'
> and in 3.4.1:
>     '22.333333333333332'
>
> Was not very hard to solve:
>     if python_version == 3:
>         output06[5] = '22.333333333333332'
>         output10[5] = '23.333333333333332'
>         output10[8] = '24.77777777777778'

Try using repr() instead of str() - it might be more useful to you.

ChrisA


From rosuav at gmail.com  Wed Apr 29 08:02:04 2015
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Wed, 29 Apr 2015 22:02:04 +1000
Subject: Question Installing latest Python
In-Reply-To: <5540c3bd$0$12998$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
References: <70cf8ca0-beea-4f01-b962-beab1d54d2fd@googlegroups.com>
 <553cfec1$0$12998$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <c9c7c7ae-e5d8-4340-94fa-7216b353fc39@googlegroups.com>
 <553e4dd4$0$13004$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <b19f41e9-a3f5-47c2-b590-3c7a1e396094@googlegroups.com>
 <a2307bce-678d-4baf-a8d9-cb56278ff8bb@googlegroups.com>
 <55400cf5$0$13009$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <4d416348-6918-4674-b0c6-7ac2c04c5307@googlegroups.com>
 <554072b7$0$11102$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
 <61c897c7-d5bc-4c14-8c38-9850981a8858@googlegroups.com>
 <55407f05$0$2924$c3e8da3$76491128@news.astraweb.com>
 <45e48150-1ebc-40aa-90b0-af18109d33da@googlegroups.com>
 <5540c3bd$0$12998$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmruReRPmqbrDq8J1obijo6zMz=bWmS7B160tX2TiFy7nQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Apr 29, 2015 at 9:42 PM, Steven D'Aprano
<steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info> wrote:
> On Wed, 29 Apr 2015 04:57 pm, ?????? ??????????????? wrote:
>
>> Thank you very much Steven!
>>
>> Indeed it worked!!
>>
>> One last thing. Can you please explain to me inplain English what exactly
>> was that weird problem?
>
> Probably not. I'm not a C expert and don't really understand in full detail
> how dynamic shared libraries work.
>
> I *think* the problem was that Python was built to use dynamic libraries,
> but couldn't find them. I'm not sure how that works at the C level, but my
> guess is that it is something like importing a Python module. The Python
> executable couldn't find the libpython3.3m.so.1.0 shared library, so you
> used ldconfig to tell it where to find it.

I haven't been seeing posts from ??????, only the replies from Steven,
so I'm guessing something isn't crossing the news->mailing list
boundary for some reason. As a result, my understanding of the problem
is a bit spotty, but it seems there may be a chroot involved here.

>> [root at secure ~]# /opt/rh/python33/root/usr/bin/python -V
>> /opt/rh/python33/root/usr/bin/python: error while loading shared
>> libraries: libpython3.3m.so.1.0: cannot open shared object file: No such
>> file or directory

So it's possible that the chroot didn't have the correct
/etc/ld.so.conf.d entry for your Python binary, and thus the dynamic
linker couldn't find the shared library.

Beyond that, I don't really know enough about what's going on, sorry.
But maybe that's a starting point for an investigation.

ChrisA


From Cecil at decebal.nl  Wed Apr 29 08:09:02 2015
From: Cecil at decebal.nl (Cecil Westerhof)
Date: Wed, 29 Apr 2015 14:09:02 +0200
Subject: str more precise in 3 as 2.7
References: <87twvzch2u.fsf@Equus.decebal.nl>
 <mailman.83.1430308536.3680.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <87lhhbcf1d.fsf@Equus.decebal.nl>

Op Wednesday 29 Apr 2015 13:55 CEST schreef Chris Angelico:

> On Wed, Apr 29, 2015 at 9:24 PM, Cecil Westerhof <Cecil at decebal.nl> wrote:
>> I am trying to make my modules also work under Python 3. I found
>> that str is more precise in Python 3. The expression: str(134 /
>> 6.0) gives in 2.7.8: '22.3333333333' and in 3.4.1:
>> '22.333333333333332'
>>
>> Was not very hard to solve:
>> if python_version == 3:
>> output06[5] = '22.333333333333332'
>> output10[5] = '23.333333333333332'
>> output10[8] = '24.77777777777778'
>
> Try using repr() instead of str() - it might be more useful to you.

That looks very interesting. I am going to use it.

-- 
Cecil Westerhof
Senior Software Engineer
LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/cecilwesterhof


From Cecil at decebal.nl  Wed Apr 29 08:23:36 2015
From: Cecil at decebal.nl (Cecil Westerhof)
Date: Wed, 29 Apr 2015 14:23:36 +0200
Subject: Using + with strings considered bad
References: <878udbxrpg.fsf@Equus.decebal.nl>
 <mailman.79.1430299516.3680.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <87egn3ced3.fsf@Equus.decebal.nl>

Op Wednesday 29 Apr 2015 11:24 CEST schreef Peter Otten:

>> print('Calculating fibonacci and fibonacci_memoize once for ' +
>> str(large_fibonacci) + ' to determine speed increase')
>
> You could write that as
>
> print('Calculating fibonacci and fibonacci_memoize once for '
> '{} to determine speed increase'.format(large_fibonacci))
>
> but in a simple case like yours I'd go with the obvious
>
> print(
> 'Calculating fibonacci and fibonacci_memoize once for',
> large_fibonacci,
> 'to determine speed increase')

In 2.7 that gives:
   ('Calculating fibonacci and fibonacci_memoize once for', 40, 'to determine speed increase')

So I am going to use the one above it.

-- 
Cecil Westerhof
Senior Software Engineer
LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/cecilwesterhof


From Cecil at decebal.nl  Wed Apr 29 08:42:16 2015
From: Cecil at decebal.nl (Cecil Westerhof)
Date: Wed, 29 Apr 2015 14:42:16 +0200
Subject: implicitly concats of adjacent strings does not work with format
Message-ID: <877fsvcdhz.fsf@Equus.decebal.nl>

I have the folowing print statements:
    print(
        'Calculating fibonacci_old, fibonacci_memoize and '
        'fibonacci_memoize once for {0} '.format(large_fibonacci))


    print(
        'Calculating fibonacci_old, fibonacci_memoize and '
        'fibonacci_memoize once for {0} '.format(large_fibonacci) +
        'to determine speed increase')

    print(
        'Calculating fibonacci_old, fibonacci_memoize and '
        'to determine speed increase'
        'fibonacci_memoize once for {0} '.format(large_fibonacci))


    print(
        'Calculating fibonacci_old, fibonacci_memoize and '
        'fibonacci_memoize once for {0} '.format(large_fibonacci)
        'to determine speed increase')

The first three work, but the last gives:
        'to determine speed increase')
                                    ^
    SyntaxError: invalid syntax

Not very important, because I can use the second one, but I was just
wondering why it goes wrong.

-- 
Cecil Westerhof
Senior Software Engineer
LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/cecilwesterhof


From rosuav at gmail.com  Wed Apr 29 08:55:59 2015
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Wed, 29 Apr 2015 22:55:59 +1000
Subject: Using + with strings considered bad
In-Reply-To: <87egn3ced3.fsf@Equus.decebal.nl>
References: <878udbxrpg.fsf@Equus.decebal.nl>
 <mailman.79.1430299516.3680.python-list@python.org>
 <87egn3ced3.fsf@Equus.decebal.nl>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmpAqVXZUu4q0Z=oYL7QT1rqF=HHU_DTE2VPVnUbJ39xhg@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Apr 29, 2015 at 10:23 PM, Cecil Westerhof <Cecil at decebal.nl> wrote:
> In 2.7 that gives:
>    ('Calculating fibonacci and fibonacci_memoize once for', 40, 'to determine speed increase')
>
> So I am going to use the one above it.

Start your script with:

from __future__ import print_function

Problem solved! :)

ChrisA


From davea at davea.name  Wed Apr 29 09:14:59 2015
From: davea at davea.name (Dave Angel)
Date: Wed, 29 Apr 2015 09:14:59 -0400
Subject: implicitly concats of adjacent strings does not work with format
In-Reply-To: <877fsvcdhz.fsf@Equus.decebal.nl>
References: <877fsvcdhz.fsf@Equus.decebal.nl>
Message-ID: <5540D953.4080601@davea.name>

On 04/29/2015 08:42 AM, Cecil Westerhof wrote:
> I have the folowing print statements:
>      print(
>          'Calculating fibonacci_old, fibonacci_memoize and '
>          'fibonacci_memoize once for {0} '.format(large_fibonacci))
>
>
>      print(
>          'Calculating fibonacci_old, fibonacci_memoize and '
>          'fibonacci_memoize once for {0} '.format(large_fibonacci) +
>          'to determine speed increase')
>
>      print(
>          'Calculating fibonacci_old, fibonacci_memoize and '
>          'to determine speed increase'
>          'fibonacci_memoize once for {0} '.format(large_fibonacci))
>
>
>      print(
>          'Calculating fibonacci_old, fibonacci_memoize and '
>          'fibonacci_memoize once for {0} '.format(large_fibonacci)
>          'to determine speed increase')
>
> The first three work, but the last gives:
>          'to determine speed increase')
>                                      ^
>      SyntaxError: invalid syntax
>
> Not very important, because I can use the second one, but I was just
> wondering why it goes wrong.
>

Adjacent string literals are concatenated.  But once you've called a 
method (.format()) on that literal, you now have an expression, not a 
string literal.

You could either change the last line to

          + 'to determine speed increase')

or you could concatenate all the strings before calling the format method:


     print(
         'Calculating fibonacci_old, fibonacci_memoize and '
         'fibonacci_memoize once for {0} '
         'to determine speed increase' .format(large_fibonacci))

Something you may not realize is that the addjacent-concatenation occurs 
at compile time, so your third example could be transformed from:

     print(
         'Calculating fibonacci_old, fibonacci_memoize and '
         'to determine speed increase'
         'fibonacci_memoize once for {0} '.format(large_fibonacci))

to:
     print(
         'Calculating fibonacci_old, fibonacci_memoize and '
         'to determine speed increase'
         'fibonacci_memoize once for {0}'
         ' '.format(large_fibonacci))


All three literals are combined before format() is called.  Knowing this 
could be vital if you had {} elsewhere in the 9single) literal.

-- 
DaveA


From steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info  Wed Apr 29 09:15:07 2015
From: steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: Wed, 29 Apr 2015 23:15:07 +1000
Subject: Using + with strings considered bad
References: <878udbxrpg.fsf@Equus.decebal.nl>
Message-ID: <5540d95c$0$12982$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

On Wed, 29 Apr 2015 06:29 pm, Cecil Westerhof wrote:

> Because I try to keep my lines (well) below 80 characters, I use the
> following:
>     print('Calculating fibonacci and fibonacci_memoize once for ' +
>           str(large_fibonacci) + ' to determine speed increase')

That's perfectly fine, but these two alternatives may be better:

    print('Calculating fibonacci and fibonacci_memoize once for'
           ' %s to determine speed increase' % large_fibonacci)

    print('Calculating fibonacci and fibonacci_memoize once for'
           ' {} to determine speed increase'.format(large_fibonacci))



> But I was told that using + with strings was bad practice. Is this
> true? If so, what is the better way to do this?

*Repeated* string concatenation is bad practice. Concatenating one or two
strings is fine. Doing it in a loop to build up a big string is bad mojo.


# Perfectly fine:
message = prefix + "something or other" + suffix


# Okay, but there are better alternatives:
for item in things:
    message = "something " + str(item)
    print(message)


# This is asking for trouble.
# Use ''.join(substrings) instead.
text = ''
for s in substrings:
    text = text + s


The problem with the third one is that it has to make temporary strings
which get thrown away, and that gets very expensive if there are many
substrings. Suppose our substrings are "a", "bb", "ccc", "dddd", "eeeee",
then the temporary strings that are made end up being:

text = "a"  # copies one character (maybe?)
text = "abb"  # copies three characters
text = "abbccc"  # copies six characters
text = "abbcccdddd"  # copies ten characters
text = "abbcccddddeeeee"  # copies fifteen characters

So to build a string of length 15, Python ends up copying 34 or 35
characters. As the number of substrings increases, the amount of wasted
copying blows out: repeated string concatenation behaves quadratically,
which is very slow.

The tricky part is that Python starting from version 2.3 introduced an
optimization that *may* avoid all those extra copying under *some*
circumstances. So with casual testing, you might not notice the quadratic
behaviour, and see linear behaviour.

Until you rely on it being fast, and it isn't.



-- 
Steven



From invalid at invalid.invalid  Wed Apr 29 10:16:03 2015
From: invalid at invalid.invalid (Grant Edwards)
Date: Wed, 29 Apr 2015 14:16:03 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Not possible to hide local variables
References: <874mo0zoz2.fsf@Equus.decebal.nl>
Message-ID: <mhqp33$dpj$2@reader1.panix.com>

On 2015-04-28, Cecil Westerhof <Cecil at decebal.nl> wrote:
> If I remember correctly you can not hide variables of a class or make
> them read-only?
>
> I want to rewrite my moving average to python. The init is:
>     def __init__(self, length):
>         if type(length) != int:
>             raise ParameterError, 'Parameter has to be an int'
>         if n < 0:
>             raise ValueError, 'Parameter should be greater or equal 2'
>         self.length             = length
>         self.old_values         = []
>         self.current_total      = 0
>
> But when someone changes length, old_values, or current_total that
> would wreck havoc with my class instance. What is the best way to
> handle this?

It's like the punchline to the old doctor joke: if it hurts when you
do that, then don't _do_ that:

  def __init__(self, length):
      if type(length) != int:
          raise ParameterError, 'Parameter has to be an int'
      if n < 0:
          raise ValueError, 'Parameter should be greater or equal 2'
      self._length             = length
      self._old_values         = []
      self._current_total      = 0

The convention is that properties that start with underscores are
private.  They're not hidden, but if people touch them and it breaks
something, it's their fault.  Whether you go all Torvalds on their ass
for doing so is left as an exercise for the reader.

-- 
Grant Edwards               grant.b.edwards        Yow! If Robert Di Niro
                                  at               assassinates Walter Slezak,
                              gmail.com            will Jodie Foster marry
                                                   Bonzo??


From Cecil at decebal.nl  Wed Apr 29 10:40:31 2015
From: Cecil at decebal.nl (Cecil Westerhof)
Date: Wed, 29 Apr 2015 16:40:31 +0200
Subject: implicitly concats of adjacent strings does not work with format
References: <877fsvcdhz.fsf@Equus.decebal.nl>
 <mailman.86.1430313312.3680.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <87383jc80w.fsf@Equus.decebal.nl>

Op Wednesday 29 Apr 2015 15:14 CEST schreef Dave Angel:

> On 04/29/2015 08:42 AM, Cecil Westerhof wrote:
>> I have the folowing print statements:
>> print(
>> 'Calculating fibonacci_old, fibonacci_memoize and '
>> 'fibonacci_memoize once for {0} '.format(large_fibonacci))
>>
>>
>> print(
>> 'Calculating fibonacci_old, fibonacci_memoize and '
>> 'fibonacci_memoize once for {0} '.format(large_fibonacci) +
>> 'to determine speed increase')
>>
>> print(
>> 'Calculating fibonacci_old, fibonacci_memoize and '
>> 'to determine speed increase'
>> 'fibonacci_memoize once for {0} '.format(large_fibonacci))
>>
>>
>> print(
>> 'Calculating fibonacci_old, fibonacci_memoize and '
>> 'fibonacci_memoize once for {0} '.format(large_fibonacci)
>> 'to determine speed increase')
>>
>> The first three work, but the last gives:
>> 'to determine speed increase')
>> ^
>> SyntaxError: invalid syntax
>>
>> Not very important, because I can use the second one, but I was
>> just wondering why it goes wrong.
>>
>
> Adjacent string literals are concatenated. But once you've called a
> method (.format()) on that literal, you now have an expression, not
> a string literal.
>
> You could either change the last line to
>
> + 'to determine speed increase')
>
> or you could concatenate all the strings before calling the format
> method:
>
>
> print(
> 'Calculating fibonacci_old, fibonacci_memoize and '
> 'fibonacci_memoize once for {0} '
> 'to determine speed increase' .format(large_fibonacci))

I now use this, I did not know that the addjacent-concatenation
occurred at compile time.
I spend a ?little? time, but it was worth it.

>From the amount of messages you could think I am a spammer. ;-)

-- 
Cecil Westerhof
Senior Software Engineer
LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/cecilwesterhof


From Cecil at decebal.nl  Wed Apr 29 10:53:08 2015
From: Cecil at decebal.nl (Cecil Westerhof)
Date: Wed, 29 Apr 2015 16:53:08 +0200
Subject: Useful module to be written by a newbie
Message-ID: <87y4lbasvf.fsf@Equus.decebal.nl>

I have experience with Python, but it has been some time ago. The best
way to relearn a language (for me) is just make a lot of code with it.
But it would be nice if it was useful at the same time. I started a
Python library on GitHub:
    https://github.com/CecilWesterhof/PythonLibrary

Anyone an idea about functions and classes that would be useful for
the Python community and could be written by me?

-- 
Cecil Westerhof
Senior Software Engineer
LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/cecilwesterhof


From kylotan at gmail.com  Wed Apr 29 12:01:49 2015
From: kylotan at gmail.com (Ben Sizer)
Date: Wed, 29 Apr 2015 09:01:49 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: ImportError with pickle (Python 2.7.9), possibly platform dependent
Message-ID: <494551ca-532f-4d4d-aff0-a3932416c8f4@googlegroups.com>

I'm saving some data via pickle, and loading it in is proving tricky. 

Traceback (most recent call last):
  [...some lines removed...]
File "/home/kylotan/OMDBSetup.py", line 44, in get_omdb_map
  __omdb_map = OMDBMap.OMDBMap.load_from_binary(full_path)
File "/home/kylotan/OMDBMap.py", line 87, in load_from_binary
  d = pickle.load(binary_file)
File "/usr/local/lib/python2.7/pickle.py", line 1378, in load
  return Unpickler(file).load()
File "/usr/local/lib/python2.7/pickle.py", line 858, in load
  dispatch[key](self)
File "/usr/local/lib/python2.7/pickle.py", line 1090, in load_global
  klass = self.find_class(module, name)
File "/usr/local/lib/python2.7/pickle.py", line 1124, in find_class
  __import__(module)
ImportError: No module named OMDBMap

Here are the 2 weird things:

1) There clearly is a module named OMDBMap, and it's importable - it's there in the 2nd line of the traceback.
2) This error only arises on Linux. Exactly the same file loads in properly on MacOSX, and on Windows 8.


What I've done to try and debug this:

a) I've run an MD5 on the file to make sure the file is identical on all platforms, and that nothing is changing the line endings, and I'm also making sure to both open and save the pickle with 'rb'/'wb'.
b) I tried both pickle and cPickle - they seem to produce slightly different output but the error is exactly the same in each case.
c) I pickle and unpickle from exactly the same file (a file called OMDBSetup.py does 'import OMDBMap' and then calls methods in there to save and load the data (including the OMDBMap.OMDBMap.load_from_binary which contains the above callstack). The intention here was to avoid both the common "No module named __main__" error, and to hopefully have exactly the same modules imported into the namespace at both save and load time.

So my hypothesis is that I've either found some edge case which only acts weird on Linux (or only succeeds on the other platforms, whichever way you look at it), or there's something wrong with the Linux configuration that means it somehow cannot find this module (despite it already having found it to get this far).

Does anybody have any suggestions on how I can go about debugging this? Or refactoring it to avoid whatever is happening here?

-- 
Ben Sizer


From breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk  Wed Apr 29 12:04:49 2015
From: breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk (Mark Lawrence)
Date: Wed, 29 Apr 2015 17:04:49 +0100
Subject: implicitly concats of adjacent strings does not work with format
In-Reply-To: <87383jc80w.fsf@Equus.decebal.nl>
References: <877fsvcdhz.fsf@Equus.decebal.nl>
 <mailman.86.1430313312.3680.python-list@python.org>
 <87383jc80w.fsf@Equus.decebal.nl>
Message-ID: <mhqvf3$c66$1@ger.gmane.org>

On 29/04/2015 15:40, Cecil Westerhof wrote:
> Op Wednesday 29 Apr 2015 15:14 CEST schreef Dave Angel:
>
>> On 04/29/2015 08:42 AM, Cecil Westerhof wrote:
>>> I have the folowing print statements:
>>> print(
>>> 'Calculating fibonacci_old, fibonacci_memoize and'
>>> 'fibonacci_memoize once for {0} '.format(large_fibonacci))
>>>
>>>
>>> print(
>>> 'Calculating fibonacci_old, fibonacci_memoize and'
>>> 'fibonacci_memoize once for {0} '.format(large_fibonacci) +
>>> 'to determine speed increase')
>>>
>>> print(
>>> 'Calculating fibonacci_old, fibonacci_memoize and'
>>> 'to determine speed increase'
>>> 'fibonacci_memoize once for {0} '.format(large_fibonacci))
>>>
>>>
>>> print(
>>> 'Calculating fibonacci_old, fibonacci_memoize and'
>>> 'fibonacci_memoize once for {0} '.format(large_fibonacci)
>>> 'to determine speed increase')
>>>
>>> The first three work, but the last gives:
>>> 'to determine speed increase')
>>> ^
>>> SyntaxError: invalid syntax
>>>
>>> Not very important, because I can use the second one, but I was
>>> just wondering why it goes wrong.
>>>
>>
>> Adjacent string literals are concatenated. But once you've called a
>> method (.format()) on that literal, you now have an expression, not
>> a string literal.
>>
>> You could either change the last line to
>>
>> + 'to determine speed increase')
>>
>> or you could concatenate all the strings before calling the format
>> method:
>>
>>
>> print(
>> 'Calculating fibonacci_old, fibonacci_memoize and'
>> 'fibonacci_memoize once for {0}'
>> 'to determine speed increase' .format(large_fibonacci))
>
> I now use this, I did not know that the addjacent-concatenation
> occurred at compile time.
> I spend a ?little? time, but it was worth it.
>
>  From the amount of messages you could think I am a spammer. ;-)
>

Did you mean spanner? ;-)

-- 
My fellow Pythonistas, ask not what our language can do for you, ask
what you can do for our language.

Mark Lawrence



From __peter__ at web.de  Wed Apr 29 12:27:59 2015
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Wed, 29 Apr 2015 18:27:59 +0200
Subject: Useful module to be written by a newbie
References: <87y4lbasvf.fsf@Equus.decebal.nl>
Message-ID: <mhr0qh$60g$1@ger.gmane.org>

Cecil Westerhof wrote:

> I have experience with Python, but it has been some time ago. The best
> way to relearn a language (for me) is just make a lot of code with it.
> But it would be nice if it was useful at the same time. I started a
> Python library on GitHub:
>     https://github.com/CecilWesterhof/PythonLibrary
> 
> Anyone an idea about functions and classes that would be useful for
> the Python community and could be written by me?

Realistically a Python coder with a little experience will have a glance at 
your code and run away.

But: a family member, or friend, or even you yourself with a small real-
world problem will not care whether your code is idiomatic Python as long as 
it works as advertised. So I'd look that way.

As you idle along you'll quickly get better and may encounter a library 
where you think "That might be a useful extension" or one where you think 
"That's much too complex, I can make it simpler for 80% of the use cases". 

Voil? your contributions to the community.


PS: Regarding your MovingAverage class, have a look at zip(), generators or 
the __iter__() method, and -- most important -- unit tests.



From Cecil at decebal.nl  Wed Apr 29 13:08:35 2015
From: Cecil at decebal.nl (Cecil Westerhof)
Date: Wed, 29 Apr 2015 19:08:35 +0200
Subject: implicitly concats of adjacent strings does not work with format
References: <877fsvcdhz.fsf@Equus.decebal.nl>
 <mailman.86.1430313312.3680.python-list@python.org>
 <87383jc80w.fsf@Equus.decebal.nl>
 <mailman.87.1430323506.3680.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <87twvyc164.fsf@Equus.decebal.nl>

Op Wednesday 29 Apr 2015 18:04 CEST schreef Mark Lawrence:

>> From the amount of messages you could think I am a spammer. ;-)
>>
>
> Did you mean spanner? ;-)

My English is not good enough to understand what you mean by this.

-- 
Cecil Westerhof
Senior Software Engineer
LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/cecilwesterhof


From Cecil at decebal.nl  Wed Apr 29 13:12:15 2015
From: Cecil at decebal.nl (Cecil Westerhof)
Date: Wed, 29 Apr 2015 19:12:15 +0200
Subject: Useful module to be written by a newbie
References: <87y4lbasvf.fsf@Equus.decebal.nl>
 <mailman.88.1430324895.3680.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <87pp6mc100.fsf@Equus.decebal.nl>

Op Wednesday 29 Apr 2015 18:27 CEST schreef Peter Otten:

> Cecil Westerhof wrote:
>
>> I have experience with Python, but it has been some time ago. The
>> best way to relearn a language (for me) is just make a lot of code
>> with it. But it would be nice if it was useful at the same time. I
>> started a Python library on GitHub:
>> https://github.com/CecilWesterhof/PythonLibrary
>>
>> Anyone an idea about functions and classes that would be useful for
>> the Python community and could be written by me?
>
> Realistically a Python coder with a little experience will have a
> glance at your code and run away.

Oops, that is not nice to hear. :'-( But can you enlighten me? Then I
can learn from it.


> But: a family member, or friend, or even you yourself with a small
> real- world problem will not care whether your code is idiomatic
> Python as long as it works as advertised. So I'd look that way.
>
> As you idle along you'll quickly get better and may encounter a
> library where you think "That might be a useful extension" or one
> where you think "That's much too complex, I can make it simpler for
> 80% of the use cases".
>
> Voil? your contributions to the community.

Well, I hope that will happen soon.


> PS: Regarding your MovingAverage class, have a look at zip(),
> generators or the __iter__() method, and -- most important -- unit
> tests.

I will do that.

-- 
Cecil Westerhof
Senior Software Engineer
LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/cecilwesterhof


From buddingrose11 at gmail.com  Wed Apr 29 14:08:34 2015
From: buddingrose11 at gmail.com (siva sankari R)
Date: Wed, 29 Apr 2015 11:08:34 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: seek operation in python
Message-ID: <8b2bd328-08a6-4211-85c4-8d117d1aae1e@googlegroups.com>

file=open("input","r")
line=file.seek(7)
print line

The above code is supposed to print a line but it prints "none". I don't know where the mistake is. Help.!


From joel.goldstick at gmail.com  Wed Apr 29 14:17:33 2015
From: joel.goldstick at gmail.com (Joel Goldstick)
Date: Wed, 29 Apr 2015 14:17:33 -0400
Subject: seek operation in python
In-Reply-To: <8b2bd328-08a6-4211-85c4-8d117d1aae1e@googlegroups.com>
References: <8b2bd328-08a6-4211-85c4-8d117d1aae1e@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <CAPM-O+yCnZ-E8YN+=Z=LnooJJwKoGhqzNYvJbD7-z1fEsSUkoA@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Apr 29, 2015 at 2:08 PM, siva sankari R <buddingrose11 at gmail.com> wrote:
> file=open("input","r")
> line=file.seek(7)
> print line
>
> The above code is supposed to print a line but it prints "none". I don't know where the mistake is. Help.!
> --
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

What is in the file you are printing?

-- 
Joel Goldstick
http://joelgoldstick.com


From Cecil at decebal.nl  Wed Apr 29 14:24:02 2015
From: Cecil at decebal.nl (Cecil Westerhof)
Date: Wed, 29 Apr 2015 20:24:02 +0200
Subject: Lucky numbers in Python
Message-ID: <87lhhabxod.fsf@Equus.decebal.nl>

I wrote a function lucky_numbers:
    def lucky_numbers(n):
        if n < 3:
            return [1]
        sieve = range(1, n + 1, 2)
        sieve_index = 1
        while True:
            skip_count  = sieve[sieve_index]
            sieve_len   = len(sieve)
            if sieve_len < skip_count:
                break
            for del_index in range((sieve_len // skip_count) * skip_count - 1, 
                                  skip_count - 2, -skip_count):
                del sieve[del_index]
            sieve_index += 1
        return sieve

I was wondering if there is a way to do this:
            for del_index in range((sieve_len // skip_count) * skip_count - 1, 
                                  skip_count - 2, -skip_count):
                del sieve[del_index]
in a more efficient way.

-- 
Cecil Westerhof
Senior Software Engineer
LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/cecilwesterhof


From buddingrose11 at gmail.com  Wed Apr 29 14:26:53 2015
From: buddingrose11 at gmail.com (siva sankari R)
Date: Wed, 29 Apr 2015 11:26:53 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: seek operation in python
In-Reply-To: <mailman.90.1430331457.3680.python-list@python.org>
References: <8b2bd328-08a6-4211-85c4-8d117d1aae1e@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.90.1430331457.3680.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <a636fbd1-f5d8-4a66-9191-ca2bdf6c27b2@googlegroups.com>

There is a file named "input.cpp"(c++ file) that contains some 80 lines of code. 


From billy.earney at gmail.com  Wed Apr 29 14:42:26 2015
From: billy.earney at gmail.com (Billy Earney)
Date: Wed, 29 Apr 2015 13:42:26 -0500
Subject: seek operation in python
In-Reply-To: <a636fbd1-f5d8-4a66-9191-ca2bdf6c27b2@googlegroups.com>
References: <8b2bd328-08a6-4211-85c4-8d117d1aae1e@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.90.1430331457.3680.python-list@python.org>
 <a636fbd1-f5d8-4a66-9191-ca2bdf6c27b2@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <CAB1ii-dphkSXDhMMuhSPL7pZgquCiCjaQjcowm9NJz9=3pTeyQ@mail.gmail.com>

if your filename is input.cpp, you first line of code should be:

file=open("input*.cpp*","r")

On Wed, Apr 29, 2015 at 1:26 PM, siva sankari R <buddingrose11 at gmail.com>
wrote:

> There is a file named "input.cpp"(c++ file) that contains some 80 lines of
> code.
> --
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/attachments/20150429/822da812/attachment.html>

From python at mrabarnett.plus.com  Wed Apr 29 14:50:42 2015
From: python at mrabarnett.plus.com (MRAB)
Date: Wed, 29 Apr 2015 19:50:42 +0100
Subject: seek operation in python
In-Reply-To: <8b2bd328-08a6-4211-85c4-8d117d1aae1e@googlegroups.com>
References: <8b2bd328-08a6-4211-85c4-8d117d1aae1e@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <55412802.2040602@mrabarnett.plus.com>

On 2015-04-29 19:08, siva sankari R wrote:
> file=open("input","r")
> line=file.seek(7)
> print line
>
> The above code is supposed to print a line but it prints "none". I don't know where the mistake is. Help.!
>
'seek' will seek to position 7 in the file. It doesn't read. That's
what 'read' is for! :-)



From gordon at panix.com  Wed Apr 29 14:53:21 2015
From: gordon at panix.com (John Gordon)
Date: Wed, 29 Apr 2015 18:53:21 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: seek operation in python
References: <8b2bd328-08a6-4211-85c4-8d117d1aae1e@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <mhr9b1$h62$1@reader1.panix.com>

In <8b2bd328-08a6-4211-85c4-8d117d1aae1e at googlegroups.com> siva sankari R <buddingrose11 at gmail.com> writes:

> file=open("input","r")
> line=file.seek(7)
> print line

> The above code is supposed to print a line but it prints "none".
> I don't know where the mistake is. Help.!

The seek() function doesn't return any data; it just relocates the file
pointer.  You still have to do a read operation to get data from the
new location.

-- 
John Gordon         Imagine what it must be like for a real medical doctor to
gordon at panix.com    watch 'House', or a real serial killer to watch 'Dexter'.



From __peter__ at web.de  Wed Apr 29 15:03:26 2015
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Wed, 29 Apr 2015 21:03:26 +0200
Subject: Useful module to be written by a newbie
References: <87y4lbasvf.fsf@Equus.decebal.nl>
 <mailman.88.1430324895.3680.python-list@python.org>
 <87pp6mc100.fsf@Equus.decebal.nl>
Message-ID: <mhr9u0$858$1@ger.gmane.org>

Cecil Westerhof wrote:

> Op Wednesday 29 Apr 2015 18:27 CEST schreef Peter Otten:
> 
>> Cecil Westerhof wrote:
>>
>>> I have experience with Python, but it has been some time ago. The
>>> best way to relearn a language (for me) is just make a lot of code
>>> with it. But it would be nice if it was useful at the same time. I
>>> started a Python library on GitHub:
>>> https://github.com/CecilWesterhof/PythonLibrary
>>>
>>> Anyone an idea about functions and classes that would be useful for
>>> the Python community and could be written by me?
>>
>> Realistically a Python coder with a little experience will have a
>> glance at your code and run away.
> 
> Oops, that is not nice to hear. :'-( 

Sorry, I did not mean to discourage you or insult you, I just wanted to make 
it clear that your code is not there yet.

> But can you enlighten me? Then I can learn from it.

I was judging from the look of your MovingAverage.

I don't like the interface, it really should take an iterable so that you 
can write

>>> list(moving_average([1,2,3], 2))
[1.5, 2.5]

I don't see how you cope with error accumulation.

Given how generic your code is I don't see why you limit it to just int and 
float, and I don't expect that limitation to find errors caused by my code 
using your moving average. 

And then there's the testing...

Compare that to the beast I found in a web search for moving average python:

<https://github.com/linsomniac/python-movingaverage/blob/master/movingaverage.py>

I'm no numerics expert and it would take me some time to verify that it is a 
good implementation without bugs or corner cases that affect my use case, 
but I can pick any three lines from the code and they just look right. If 
right now I needed an implementation of moving average that is more advanced 
than the naive one I can churn out

>>> def moving_average(values, n):
...     values = iter(values)
...     d = []
...     for i in range(n-1):
...         d.append(next(values))
...     for v in values:
...         d.append(v)
...         yield sum(d) / n
...         del d[0]
... 
>>> list(moving_average([1,2,3], 2))
[1.5, 2.5]

and there is no implementation from a reputable project like numpy I'd 
certainly use that one rather than yours.

To put it into perspective: There are of course many areas where there is 
not much competition and if someone makes some exotic hardware accessible 
via Python then I am grateful and will accept that that person writes Python 
as if it were C and has not yet grokked the exact meaning of the global 
statement. In other words: useful wins over easy-to-use wins over idiomatic.



From ian.g.kelly at gmail.com  Wed Apr 29 15:40:51 2015
From: ian.g.kelly at gmail.com (Ian Kelly)
Date: Wed, 29 Apr 2015 13:40:51 -0600
Subject: Useful module to be written by a newbie
In-Reply-To: <mhr9u0$858$1@ger.gmane.org>
References: <87y4lbasvf.fsf@Equus.decebal.nl>
 <mailman.88.1430324895.3680.python-list@python.org>
 <87pp6mc100.fsf@Equus.decebal.nl> <mhr9u0$858$1@ger.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <CALwzidnrBkkd-vr33C3cYQ0gvcdFqMXbD7Qwbbr3AbvmOCyhkA@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Apr 29, 2015 at 1:03 PM, Peter Otten <__peter__ at web.de> wrote:
> I was judging from the look of your MovingAverage.
>
> I don't like the interface, it really should take an iterable so that you
> can write
>
>>>> list(moving_average([1,2,3], 2))
> [1.5, 2.5]

The problem with this is that many use cases for moving averages need
to access the current average before future items become available.
For example, a download speed indicator: it needs to average the
transfer rate over the last few seconds. There will be more transfer
rate data in the future, but it's not available yet, so you can't add
it to the iterable unless the iterable is actually some sort of
read/write buffer that can be appended to once iteration has already
started.

That seems overly complex, though; for one, you need to be careful not
to exhaust the buffer, since the iteration protocol requires that once
next() raises StopIteration, it will always raise StopIteration. But
also, why add the data to object A so that it can be consumed by
object B if you could just add it to object B directly?

So I think the iterable interface that you're describing really needs
to be a coroutine of some sort:

>>> from collections import deque
>>> def moving_average(length):
...     values = deque([(yield)], maxlen=length)
...     while True:
...         values.append((yield sum(values) / len(values)))
...
>>> mavg = moving_average(5)
>>> next(mavg)
>>> mavg.send(1)
1.0
>>> mavg.send(2)
1.5
>>> mavg.send(3)
2.0
>>> mavg.send(4)
2.5
>>> mavg.send(5)
3.0
>>> mavg.send(6)
4.0
>>> mavg.send(7)
5.0

This works, but I don't really like it. For one, our moving_average
"iterable" isn't really an iterable any more; we need to call send
instead of next, which means we can't just stick it inside a for loop.
And if we can't iterate over it, then what's the point of using a
generator? If we make it a class, then we can give it a more flexible
API.

class MovingAverage(object):

    def __init__(self, length):
        self.values = deque(maxlen=length)

    def append(self, value):
        self.values.append(value)

    def average(self):
        return sum(self.values) / len(self.values)

Which is pretty much back to where we started.


From kplunt at gmail.com  Wed Apr 29 15:49:23 2015
From: kplunt at gmail.com (Kurt)
Date: Wed, 29 Apr 2015 12:49:23 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Panda data read_csv returns 'TextFileReader' object
In-Reply-To: <mailman.10.1429915932.3680.python-list@python.org>
References: <4eac5d43-4fce-4bf9-a7b2-cf68bc813e7d@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.10.1429915932.3680.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <b801cb52-e291-4bb7-841f-c87f3734b4ec@googlegroups.com>

Python has a return object dependency on its input parameter call. I overlooked the fact specifying a "chunksize" parameter in the read_csv function returns a TextFileReader object, which is used for iteration purposes. I might need to work with that, as well as a ref manual such as Python for Data Analysis.

Kurt



On Friday, April 24, 2015 at 6:53:05 PM UTC-4, Dave Angel wrote:
> On 04/24/2015 04:04 PM, Kurt wrote:
> > Isn't the call pd.read_csv(filepath,...) suppose to return a dataframe, not this other object? I keep getting the following error when I try to view the attribute head.
> >
> > AttributeError: 'TextFileReader' object has no attribute 'head'
> >
> > I reference pandas as pd and df is suppose to define itself. I had this working at one time.
> >
> 
> Please supply the Python version, the pandas version, and the code you 
> ran.  It can also be useful to show how/where you installed pandas, like 
> the URL you used, or the apt-get, or the pip command, or whatever.
> 
> Then show the complete error traceback, not just a summary.  And if the 
> error really is on the line you partially supplied above, what's the 
> type and contents of filepath?  What are the other arguments' values?
> 
> The function I suspect you're trying to call is:
> 
> pandas.io.parsers.read_csv(filepath, ...)
> 
> but I can't tell from your description.
> 
> -- 
> DaveA


From ian.g.kelly at gmail.com  Wed Apr 29 15:57:44 2015
From: ian.g.kelly at gmail.com (Ian Kelly)
Date: Wed, 29 Apr 2015 13:57:44 -0600
Subject: Lucky numbers in Python
In-Reply-To: <87lhhabxod.fsf@Equus.decebal.nl>
References: <87lhhabxod.fsf@Equus.decebal.nl>
Message-ID: <CALwzidnBCAnR5RJ2V6POvx3sX-aLzZoehGQHe9AAomkzBa3pWg@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Apr 29, 2015 at 12:24 PM, Cecil Westerhof <Cecil at decebal.nl> wrote:
> I was wondering if there is a way to do this:
>             for del_index in range((sieve_len // skip_count) * skip_count - 1,
>                                   skip_count - 2, -skip_count):
>                 del sieve[del_index]
> in a more efficient way.

You can delete using slices.

del sieve[(sieve_len // skip_count) * skip_count - 1 : skip_count - 2
: -skip_count]

Now you no longer need to do the iteration in reverse, which makes the
slicing simpler:

del sieve[skip_count - 1 : (sieve_len // skip_count) * skip_count : skip_count]

And although it's not clear to me what this is supposed to be doing,
you probably no longer need the middle term if the intention is to
continue deleting all the way to the end of the list (if it is then I
think you have a bug in the existing implementation, since the last
item in the list can never be deleted).

del sieve[skip_count - 1 :: skip_count]


From kashifrana84 at gmail.com  Wed Apr 29 16:42:08 2015
From: kashifrana84 at gmail.com (Kashif Rana)
Date: Wed, 29 Apr 2015 13:42:08 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Python re to extract useful information from each line
Message-ID: <e5473ccc-4f7d-431d-93a7-1aeeededcbf0@googlegroups.com>

Hello Experts

I have below lines with some variations.

1- set policy id 1000 from "Untrust" to "Trust" "Any" "1.1.1.1" "HTTP" nat dst ip 10.10.10.10 port 8000 permit log

2- set policy id 5000 from "Trust" to "Untrust" "Any" "microsoft.com" "HTTP" nat src permit schedule "14August2014" log

3- set policy id 7000 from "Trust" to "Untrust" "Users" "Any" "ANY" nat src dip-id 4 permit log

4- set policy id 7000 from "Trust" to "Untrust" "servers" "Any" "ANY" deny

Please help me to write the regular expression to extract below information in parenthesis, if exist from each line. Please note that some items may exist or not like nat or log

set policy id (id) from (from) to (to) (source) (destination) (service) nat (src or dst) (dip-id 4) or (ip 10.10.10.10) port (dst-port) (action) schedule (schedule) (log)


From Cecil at decebal.nl  Wed Apr 29 16:47:43 2015
From: Cecil at decebal.nl (Cecil Westerhof)
Date: Wed, 29 Apr 2015 22:47:43 +0200
Subject: Useful module to be written by a newbie
References: <87y4lbasvf.fsf@Equus.decebal.nl>
 <mailman.88.1430324895.3680.python-list@python.org>
 <87pp6mc100.fsf@Equus.decebal.nl>
 <mailman.93.1430334242.3680.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <87h9rybr0w.fsf@Equus.decebal.nl>

Op Wednesday 29 Apr 2015 21:03 CEST schreef Peter Otten:

>>> Realistically a Python coder with a little experience will have a
>>> glance at your code and run away.
>>
>> Oops, that is not nice to hear. :'-( 
>
> Sorry, I did not mean to discourage you or insult you, I just wanted
> to make it clear that your code is not there yet.

You did not. Of-course it is not nice to hear, but if it is true, it
is very useful. If there is a lot to be desired, then it is good when
someone point this out.


>> But can you enlighten me? Then I can learn from it.
>
> I was judging from the look of your MovingAverage.
>
> I don't like the interface, it really should take an iterable so
> that you can write
>
>>>> list(moving_average([1,2,3], 2))
> [1.5, 2.5]

I should probably document it better. The idea is that you do not have
the data yet. At certain intervals data is acquired and at that moment
you want the moving average with the new data. But it would not hurt
to have the possibility to feed it a list of values, beside single
value. Something to better the function. Thanks.


> I don't see how you cope with error accumulation.

That is a good one. I have the values themselves (I use them in the
test). I could every so much new values check if there is an error. If
that is the case log it and use the correct value.


> Given how generic your code is I don't see why you limit it to just
> int and float, and I don't expect that limitation to find errors
> caused by my code using your moving average.

Because it gives back a float I thought it better to use only int and
float, but I was contemplating expansion.


> And then there's the testing...
>
> Compare that to the beast I found in a web search for moving average
> python:
>
> <https://github.com/linsomniac/python-movingaverage/blob/master/movingaverage.py>

That is certainly something I can learn from.

I have to implement the following improvements:
    Create a next_values
    Create a internal checking function
    Implement no_rolling_sum?
    Expand testing
    Option to force no_rolling_sum when no_rolling_sum? is True
    - for the current call
    - for the current call and length -1 following

And I should move it to mathDecebal.

-- 
Cecil Westerhof
Senior Software Engineer
LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/cecilwesterhof


From kashifrana84 at gmail.com  Wed Apr 29 16:49:05 2015
From: kashifrana84 at gmail.com (Kashif Rana)
Date: Wed, 29 Apr 2015 13:49:05 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Python re to extract useful information from each line
In-Reply-To: <e5473ccc-4f7d-431d-93a7-1aeeededcbf0@googlegroups.com>
References: <e5473ccc-4f7d-431d-93a7-1aeeededcbf0@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <220dafbc-25f0-48a7-b37a-c8a77a6f2ffa@googlegroups.com>

On Thursday, April 30, 2015 at 12:42:18 AM UTC+4, Kashif Rana wrote:
> Hello Experts
> 
> I have below lines with some variations.
> 
> 1- set policy id 1000 from "Untrust" to "Trust" "Any" "1.1.1.1" "HTTP" nat dst ip 10.10.10.10 port 8000 permit log
> 
> 2- set policy id 5000 from "Trust" to "Untrust" "Any" "microsoft.com" "HTTP" nat src permit schedule "14August2014" log
> 
> 3- set policy id 7000 from "Trust" to "Untrust" "Users" "Any" "ANY" nat src dip-id 4 permit log
> 
> 4- set policy id 7000 from "Trust" to "Untrust" "servers" "Any" "ANY" deny
> 
> Please help me to write the regular expression to extract below information in parenthesis, if exist from each line. Please note that some items may exist or not like nat or log
> 
> set policy id (id) from (from) to (to) (source) (destination) (service) nat (src or dst) (dip-id 4) or (ip 10.10.10.10) port (dst-port) (action) schedule (schedule) (log)

I tried below re and its not working.

id\s(?P<p_id>.+?)(?:\sname\s(?P<p_name>.+?))?\sfrom\s(?P<p_from>.+?)\sto\s(?P<p_to>.+?)\s{2}(?P<p_src>[^\s]+?)\s(?P<p_dst>[^\s]+?)\s(?P<p_port>[^\s]+?)(?:\s(?P<p_nat_status>nat)\s(?P<p_nat_type>\w+)(\s?P<p_nat_src_ip>dip-id\s\d+)?(\sip\s(?P<p_nat_dst_ip>[\d\.]+)\sport(?P<dst_nat_port>\d+))?)?\s(?P<p_action>[^\s]+?)(?:\sschedule\s(?P<p_schedule>[^\s]+?))?(?P<p_log_status>\slog)?$

If I ignore the line 1. I made below re and its working and giving me all info.

pol_elements = re.compile('id\s(?P<p_id>.+?)(?:\sname\s(?P<p_name>.+?))?\sfrom\s(?P<p_from>.+?)\sto\s(?P<p_to>.+?)\s{2}(?P<p_src>[^\s]+?)\s(?P<p_dst>[^\s]+?)\s(?P<p_port>[^\s]+?)(?:(?P<p_nat_status>\snat)\s(?P<p_nat_type>[^\s]+?)(?P<p_nat_ip>\sdip-id\s[^\s]+?)?)?\s(?P<p_action>[^\s]+?)(?:\sschedule\s(?P<p_schedule>[^\s]+?))?(?P<p_log_status>\slog)?$'
)


From breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk  Wed Apr 29 16:51:02 2015
From: breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk (Mark Lawrence)
Date: Wed, 29 Apr 2015 21:51:02 +0100
Subject: implicitly concats of adjacent strings does not work with format
In-Reply-To: <87twvyc164.fsf@Equus.decebal.nl>
References: <877fsvcdhz.fsf@Equus.decebal.nl>
 <mailman.86.1430313312.3680.python-list@python.org>
 <87383jc80w.fsf@Equus.decebal.nl>
 <mailman.87.1430323506.3680.python-list@python.org>
 <87twvyc164.fsf@Equus.decebal.nl>
Message-ID: <mhrg7p$lju$1@ger.gmane.org>

On 29/04/2015 18:08, Cecil Westerhof wrote:
> Op Wednesday 29 Apr 2015 18:04 CEST schreef Mark Lawrence:
>
>>>  From the amount of messages you could think I am a spammer. ;-)
>>>
>>
>> Did you mean spanner? ;-)
>
> My English is not good enough to understand what you mean by this.
>

Seek, and ye shall find.

<quote>
(UK, mildly derogatory) A stupid or unintelligent person; one prone to 
making mistakes, especially in language.
You spanner, Rodney! I wanted a Chinese, not an Indian!
</quote>

Nothing personal in this, I simply find the homour here often more 
interesting than the theoretical claptrap that some go on about.  Not 
only that, from the Zen of Python, "Practicality beats purity".

As for being a spammer, nonsense, it's rather pleasant to see someone 
with real code asking real questions.  Carry on like this and you'll 
soon be on the bug tracker at bugs.python.org fixing things, instead of 
the throngs who simply love complaining, but in reality do nothing about 
it.  Hint, hint, didn't you ask on another thread about what module you 
could write for Python :)

-- 
My fellow Pythonistas, ask not what our language can do for you, ask
what you can do for our language.

Mark Lawrence



From breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk  Wed Apr 29 16:53:19 2015
From: breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk (Mark Lawrence)
Date: Wed, 29 Apr 2015 21:53:19 +0100
Subject: seek operation in python
In-Reply-To: <CAB1ii-dphkSXDhMMuhSPL7pZgquCiCjaQjcowm9NJz9=3pTeyQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <8b2bd328-08a6-4211-85c4-8d117d1aae1e@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.90.1430331457.3680.python-list@python.org>
 <a636fbd1-f5d8-4a66-9191-ca2bdf6c27b2@googlegroups.com>
 <CAB1ii-dphkSXDhMMuhSPL7pZgquCiCjaQjcowm9NJz9=3pTeyQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <mhrgc1$lju$2@ger.gmane.org>

The only good top poster is a dead top poster, except for...

On 29/04/2015 19:42, Billy Earney wrote:
> if your filename is input.cpp, you first line of code should be:
>
> file=open("input*.cpp*","r")
>
> On Wed, Apr 29, 2015 at 1:26 PM, siva sankari R <buddingrose11 at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> There is a file named "input.cpp"(c++ file) that contains some 80 lines of
>> code.
>> --
>> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>>
>

-- 
My fellow Pythonistas, ask not what our language can do for you, ask
what you can do for our language.

Mark Lawrence



From emile at fenx.com  Wed Apr 29 17:22:40 2015
From: emile at fenx.com (Emile van Sebille)
Date: Wed, 29 Apr 2015 14:22:40 -0700
Subject: Python re to extract useful information from each line
In-Reply-To: <220dafbc-25f0-48a7-b37a-c8a77a6f2ffa@googlegroups.com>
References: <e5473ccc-4f7d-431d-93a7-1aeeededcbf0@googlegroups.com>
 <220dafbc-25f0-48a7-b37a-c8a77a6f2ffa@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <mhri39$n45$1@ger.gmane.org>

On 4/29/2015 1:49 PM, Kashif Rana wrote:
> pol_elements = re.compile('id\s(?P<p_id>.+?)(?:\sname\s(?P<p_name>.+?))?\sfrom\s(?P<p_from>.+?)\sto\s(?P<p_to>.+?)\s{2}(?P<p_src>[^\s]+?)\s(?P<p_dst>[^\s]+?)\s(?P<p_port>[^\s]+?)(?:(?P<p_nat_status>\snat)\s(?P<p_nat_type>[^\s]+?)(?P<p_nat_ip>\sdip-id\s[^\s]+?)?)?\s(?P<p_action>[^\s]+?)(?:\sschedule\s(?P<p_schedule>[^\s]+?))?(?P<p_log_status>\slog)?$'
> )


... and that's why we avoid regular expressions... it makes my head hurt 
just looking at that line noise.

Emile





From python at mrabarnett.plus.com  Wed Apr 29 17:28:08 2015
From: python at mrabarnett.plus.com (MRAB)
Date: Wed, 29 Apr 2015 22:28:08 +0100
Subject: Python re to extract useful information from each line
In-Reply-To: <mhri39$n45$1@ger.gmane.org>
References: <e5473ccc-4f7d-431d-93a7-1aeeededcbf0@googlegroups.com>
 <220dafbc-25f0-48a7-b37a-c8a77a6f2ffa@googlegroups.com>
 <mhri39$n45$1@ger.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <55414CE8.60504@mrabarnett.plus.com>

On 2015-04-29 22:22, Emile van Sebille wrote:
> On 4/29/2015 1:49 PM, Kashif Rana wrote:
>> pol_elements = re.compile('id\s(?P<p_id>.+?)(?:\sname\s(?P<p_name>.+?))?\sfrom\s(?P<p_from>.+?)\sto\s(?P<p_to>.+?)\s{2}(?P<p_src>[^\s]+?)\s(?P<p_dst>[^\s]+?)\s(?P<p_port>[^\s]+?)(?:(?P<p_nat_status>\snat)\s(?P<p_nat_type>[^\s]+?)(?P<p_nat_ip>\sdip-id\s[^\s]+?)?)?\s(?P<p_action>[^\s]+?)(?:\sschedule\s(?P<p_schedule>[^\s]+?))?(?P<p_log_status>\slog)?$'
>> )
>
>
> ... and that's why we avoid regular expressions... it makes my head hurt
> just looking at that line noise.
>
It might just be easier to split it into a list of fields and then pick
out the ones you want:

fields = re.findall(r'"[^"]+"|\S+', line)



From breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk  Wed Apr 29 17:30:39 2015
From: breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk (Mark Lawrence)
Date: Wed, 29 Apr 2015 22:30:39 +0100
Subject: Python re to extract useful information from each line
In-Reply-To: <mhri39$n45$1@ger.gmane.org>
References: <e5473ccc-4f7d-431d-93a7-1aeeededcbf0@googlegroups.com>
 <220dafbc-25f0-48a7-b37a-c8a77a6f2ffa@googlegroups.com>
 <mhri39$n45$1@ger.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <mhrii1$sjg$1@ger.gmane.org>

On 29/04/2015 22:22, Emile van Sebille wrote:
> On 4/29/2015 1:49 PM, Kashif Rana wrote:
>> pol_elements =
>> re.compile('id\s(?P<p_id>.+?)(?:\sname\s(?P<p_name>.+?))?\sfrom\s(?P<p_from>.+?)\sto\s(?P<p_to>.+?)\s{2}(?P<p_src>[^\s]+?)\s(?P<p_dst>[^\s]+?)\s(?P<p_port>[^\s]+?)(?:(?P<p_nat_status>\snat)\s(?P<p_nat_type>[^\s]+?)(?P<p_nat_ip>\sdip-id\s[^\s]+?)?)?\s(?P<p_action>[^\s]+?)(?:\sschedule\s(?P<p_schedule>[^\s]+?))?(?P<p_log_status>\slog)?$'
>>
>> )
>
>
> ... and that's why we avoid regular expressions... it makes my head hurt
> just looking at that line noise.
>
> Emile
>

Great minds think alike :)

-- 
My fellow Pythonistas, ask not what our language can do for you, ask
what you can do for our language.

Mark Lawrence



From Cecil at decebal.nl  Wed Apr 29 17:45:08 2015
From: Cecil at decebal.nl (Cecil Westerhof)
Date: Wed, 29 Apr 2015 23:45:08 +0200
Subject: Lucky numbers in Python
References: <87lhhabxod.fsf@Equus.decebal.nl>
 <mailman.95.1430337506.3680.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <87d22mbod7.fsf@Equus.decebal.nl>

Op Wednesday 29 Apr 2015 21:57 CEST schreef Ian Kelly:

> On Wed, Apr 29, 2015 at 12:24 PM, Cecil Westerhof <Cecil at decebal.nl> wrote:
>> I was wondering if there is a way to do this:
>> for del_index in range((sieve_len // skip_count) * skip_count - 1,
>> skip_count - 2, -skip_count):
>> del sieve[del_index]
>> in a more efficient way.
>
> You can delete using slices.
>
> del sieve[(sieve_len // skip_count) * skip_count - 1 : skip_count -
> 2 : -skip_count]
>
> Now you no longer need to do the iteration in reverse, which makes
> the slicing simpler:
>
> del sieve[skip_count - 1 : (sieve_len // skip_count) * skip_count :
> skip_count]

I expected that it could be done more efficiently, but did not expect
such a big difference: more as hundred times. The old situation took
20 seconds for 1000000. The new takes 0.17.

The code is know (I added a missing check):
    def lucky_numbers(n):
        if n < 3:
            return [1]
        sieve = range(1, n + 1, 2)
        sieve_index = 1
        while True:
            sieve_len   = len(sieve)
            if (sieve_index + 1) > sieve_len:
                break
            skip_count  = sieve[sieve_index]
            if sieve_len < skip_count:
                break
            del sieve[skip_count - 1 : (sieve_len // skip_count) * skip_count : skip_count]
            sieve_index += 1
        return sieve


> And although it's not clear to me what this is supposed to be doing,
> you probably no longer need the middle term if the intention is to
> continue deleting all the way to the end of the list (if it is then
> I think you have a bug in the existing implementation, since the
> last item in the list can never be deleted).

What do you mean by this? Executing:
    lucky_numbers(5)
gives:
    [1, 3]

So the last element (5) is deleted.

-- 
Cecil Westerhof
Senior Software Engineer
LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/cecilwesterhof


From Cecil at decebal.nl  Wed Apr 29 17:51:23 2015
From: Cecil at decebal.nl (Cecil Westerhof)
Date: Wed, 29 Apr 2015 23:51:23 +0200
Subject: implicitly concats of adjacent strings does not work with format
References: <877fsvcdhz.fsf@Equus.decebal.nl>
 <mailman.86.1430313312.3680.python-list@python.org>
 <87383jc80w.fsf@Equus.decebal.nl>
 <mailman.87.1430323506.3680.python-list@python.org>
 <87twvyc164.fsf@Equus.decebal.nl>
 <mailman.96.1430340689.3680.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <878udabo2s.fsf@Equus.decebal.nl>

Op Wednesday 29 Apr 2015 22:51 CEST schreef Mark Lawrence:

> On 29/04/2015 18:08, Cecil Westerhof wrote:
>> Op Wednesday 29 Apr 2015 18:04 CEST schreef Mark Lawrence:
>>
>>>> From the amount of messages you could think I am a spammer. ;-)
>>>>
>>>
>>> Did you mean spanner? ;-)
>>
>> My English is not good enough to understand what you mean by this.
>>
>
> Seek, and ye shall find.
>
> <quote> (UK, mildly derogatory) A stupid or unintelligent person;
> one prone to making mistakes, especially in language. You spanner,
> Rodney! I wanted a Chinese, not an Indian! </quote>

Well, I used Google (or rather DuckDuckGo) and did not find this one.


> Nothing personal in this, I simply find the homour here often more
> interesting than the theoretical claptrap that some go on about. Not
> only that, from the Zen of Python, "Practicality beats purity".

:-)


> As for being a spammer, nonsense, it's rather pleasant to see
> someone with real code asking real questions. Carry on like this and
> you'll soon be on the bug tracker at bugs.python.org fixing things,
> instead of the throngs who simply love complaining, but in reality
> do nothing about it. Hint, hint, didn't you ask on another thread
> about what module you could write for Python :)

Fixing bugs is even better as writing modules. I would not mind if you
would be right. :-D

-- 
Cecil Westerhof
Senior Software Engineer
LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/cecilwesterhof


From __peter__ at web.de  Wed Apr 29 18:00:54 2015
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Thu, 30 Apr 2015 00:00:54 +0200
Subject: Useful module to be written by a newbie
References: <87y4lbasvf.fsf@Equus.decebal.nl>
 <mailman.88.1430324895.3680.python-list@python.org>
 <87pp6mc100.fsf@Equus.decebal.nl>
 <mailman.93.1430334242.3680.python-list@python.org>
 <87h9rybr0w.fsf@Equus.decebal.nl>
Message-ID: <mhrkap$uc5$1@ger.gmane.org>

Cecil Westerhof wrote:

> Op Wednesday 29 Apr 2015 21:03 CEST schreef Peter Otten:

>> I was judging from the look of your MovingAverage.
>>
>> I don't like the interface, it really should take an iterable so
>> that you can write
>>
>>>>> list(moving_average([1,2,3], 2))
>> [1.5, 2.5]
> 
> I should probably document it better. The idea is that you do not have
> the data yet. At certain intervals data is acquired and at that moment
> you want the moving average with the new data. But it would not hurt
> to have the possibility to feed it a list of values, beside single
> value. Something to better the function. Thanks.

With that explanation and especially Ian's motivational excursion it makes 
more sense. My conclusion "ah newbie, doesn't know/shuns iterator protocol" 
may be wrong. However, it may be better to follow Ian's example and decouple 
adding a new value and reading the current average.




From ian.g.kelly at gmail.com  Wed Apr 29 18:38:43 2015
From: ian.g.kelly at gmail.com (Ian Kelly)
Date: Wed, 29 Apr 2015 16:38:43 -0600
Subject: Lucky numbers in Python
In-Reply-To: <87d22mbod7.fsf@Equus.decebal.nl>
References: <87lhhabxod.fsf@Equus.decebal.nl>
 <mailman.95.1430337506.3680.python-list@python.org>
 <87d22mbod7.fsf@Equus.decebal.nl>
Message-ID: <CALwzidkkkqz+rQ6mLCqxc_UMh+nuaRybVgvN8wyL5AqRUrWFtA@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Apr 29, 2015 at 3:45 PM, Cecil Westerhof <Cecil at decebal.nl> wrote:
> Op Wednesday 29 Apr 2015 21:57 CEST schreef Ian Kelly:
>> And although it's not clear to me what this is supposed to be doing,
>> you probably no longer need the middle term if the intention is to
>> continue deleting all the way to the end of the list (if it is then
>> I think you have a bug in the existing implementation, since the
>> last item in the list can never be deleted).
>
> What do you mean by this? Executing:
>     lucky_numbers(5)
> gives:
>     [1, 3]
>
> So the last element (5) is deleted.

Off by one error on my part. This is why negative skip values on
ranges and slices are not recommended: they're confusing. :-)

In that case you can definitely omit the middle term of the slice,
which will be both more concise and clearer in intent, though probably
not significantly faster.


From python.list at tim.thechases.com  Wed Apr 29 18:38:57 2015
From: python.list at tim.thechases.com (Tim Chase)
Date: Wed, 29 Apr 2015 17:38:57 -0500
Subject: Python re to extract useful information from each line
In-Reply-To: <mhri39$n45$1@ger.gmane.org>
References: <e5473ccc-4f7d-431d-93a7-1aeeededcbf0@googlegroups.com>
 <220dafbc-25f0-48a7-b37a-c8a77a6f2ffa@googlegroups.com>
 <mhri39$n45$1@ger.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <20150429173857.557d1a01@bigbox.christie.dr>

On 2015-04-29 14:22, Emile van Sebille wrote:
> On 4/29/2015 1:49 PM, Kashif Rana wrote:
> > pol_elements =
> > re.compile('id\s(?P<p_id>.+?)(?:\sname\s(?P<p_name>.+?))?\sfrom\s(?P<p_from>.+?)\sto\s(?P<p_to>.+?)\s{2}(?P<p_src>[^\s]+?)\s(?P<p_dst>[^\s]+?)\s(?P<p_port>[^\s]+?)(?:(?P<p_nat_status>\snat)\s(?P<p_nat_type>[^\s]+?)(?P<p_nat_ip>\sdip-id\s[^\s]+?)?)?\s(?P<p_action>[^\s]+?)(?:\sschedule\s(?P<p_schedule>[^\s]+?))?(?P<p_log_status>\slog)?$'
> > )
> 
> ... and that's why we avoid regular expressions... it makes my head
> hurt just looking at that line noise.

First, it appears the OP isn't using raw strings which make those
back-slashes just ask for trouble.

That said, it would be a lot better if the OP made use of re.VERBOSE
to put each component on its own line:

 pol_elements = re.compile(r"""
   id
   \s
  (?P<p_id>.+?)
  (?:
    \s
    name
    \s
    (?P<p_name>.+?)
    )?
  \s
  from
  \s
  (?P<p_from>.+?)
  \s
  to
  \s
  (?P<p_to>.+?)
  \s{2}
  (?P<p_src>[^\s]+?)
  \s
  (?P<p_dst>[^\s]+?)
  \s(?P<p_port>[^\s]+?)
  (?:
    \s
    (?P<p_nat_status>nat)
    \s
    (?P<p_nat_type>\w+)
    (
      \s?
      P<p_nat_src_ip>dip-id
      \s
      \d+   
      )?
    (
      \s
      ip
      \s
      (?P<p_nat_dst_ip>[\d\.]+)
      \s
      port
      (?P<dst_nat_port>\d+)
      )?
    )?
  \s
  (?P<p_action>[^\s]+?)
  (?:
    \s
    schedule
    \s
    (?P<p_schedule>[^\s]+?)
    )?
  (?P<p_log_status>\slog)?
  $
   """, re.VERBOSE)

which, with some copious comments in the expression, would make it
almost readable.

Alternatively, switch to an actual parser like pyparsing.

-tkc





From ckaynor at zindagigames.com  Wed Apr 29 18:56:24 2015
From: ckaynor at zindagigames.com (Chris Kaynor)
Date: Wed, 29 Apr 2015 15:56:24 -0700
Subject: Lucky numbers in Python
In-Reply-To: <87d22mbod7.fsf@Equus.decebal.nl>
References: <87lhhabxod.fsf@Equus.decebal.nl>
 <mailman.95.1430337506.3680.python-list@python.org>
 <87d22mbod7.fsf@Equus.decebal.nl>
Message-ID: <CALvWhxu_a8TMCZ6Nd8Ch+zXA-PbQ7oD-eS68x3+VGMmO6BvoMw@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Apr 29, 2015 at 2:45 PM, Cecil Westerhof <Cecil at decebal.nl> wrote:

> >> I was wondering if there is a way to do this:
> >> for del_index in range((sieve_len // skip_count) * skip_count - 1,
> >> skip_count - 2, -skip_count):
> >> del sieve[del_index]
> >> in a more efficient way.
> >
> > You can delete using slices.
> >
> > del sieve[(sieve_len // skip_count) * skip_count - 1 : skip_count -
> > 2 : -skip_count]
> >
> > Now you no longer need to do the iteration in reverse, which makes
> > the slicing simpler:
> >
> > del sieve[skip_count - 1 : (sieve_len // skip_count) * skip_count :
> > skip_count]
>
> I expected that it could be done more efficiently, but did not expect
> such a big difference: more as hundred times. The old situation took
> 20 seconds for 1000000. The new takes 0.17.


Its not too surprising, as deleting the non-end element of a list is a O(n)
operation - it must copy all elements in the list into a new list each
time. This means that your algorithm is roughly O(n*n*log(n)) performance -
n for each list delete, which is wrapped in a for loop of n iterations,
which is wrapped in a while loop which will run log(n) times (I think that
while loop will run log(n) times, but have not actually tested the math).

Deleting a slice should take n time as well, however it is now done only
once rather than once per item to be removed, which should reduce the
overall algorithm to O(n*log(n)) time - aka, a HUGE difference with any
moderate to large input.

Chris
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/attachments/20150429/66acf048/attachment.html>

From sohcahtoa82 at gmail.com  Wed Apr 29 19:29:57 2015
From: sohcahtoa82 at gmail.com (sohcahtoa82 at gmail.com)
Date: Wed, 29 Apr 2015 16:29:57 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Python re to extract useful information from each line
In-Reply-To: <e5473ccc-4f7d-431d-93a7-1aeeededcbf0@googlegroups.com>
References: <e5473ccc-4f7d-431d-93a7-1aeeededcbf0@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <fdc9aa77-9c75-4fff-8722-5c8a8057ca13@googlegroups.com>

On Wednesday, April 29, 2015 at 1:42:18 PM UTC-7, Kashif Rana wrote:
> Hello Experts
> 
> I have below lines with some variations.
> 
> 1- set policy id 1000 from "Untrust" to "Trust" "Any" "1.1.1.1" "HTTP" nat dst ip 10.10.10.10 port 8000 permit log
> 
> 2- set policy id 5000 from "Trust" to "Untrust" "Any" "microsoft.com" "HTTP" nat src permit schedule "14August2014" log
> 
> 3- set policy id 7000 from "Trust" to "Untrust" "Users" "Any" "ANY" nat src dip-id 4 permit log
> 
> 4- set policy id 7000 from "Trust" to "Untrust" "servers" "Any" "ANY" deny
> 
> Please help me to write the regular expression to extract below information in parenthesis, if exist from each line. Please note that some items may exist or not like nat or log
> 
> set policy id (id) from (from) to (to) (source) (destination) (service) nat (src or dst) (dip-id 4) or (ip 10.10.10.10) port (dst-port) (action) schedule (schedule) (log)

If you don't have to worry about spaces in your strings, I'd just use split().  If you DO need to worry about spaces, it'd be trivial to write your own parser that stepped through the string a single character at a time.  The shlex module does this, but might not work for you.  I don't know how it would handle an IP address.


From Cecil at decebal.nl  Wed Apr 29 20:01:02 2015
From: Cecil at decebal.nl (Cecil Westerhof)
Date: Thu, 30 Apr 2015 02:01:02 +0200
Subject: Lucky numbers in Python
References: <87lhhabxod.fsf@Equus.decebal.nl>
 <mailman.95.1430337506.3680.python-list@python.org>
 <87d22mbod7.fsf@Equus.decebal.nl>
 <mailman.103.1430347166.3680.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <871tj2bi2p.fsf@Equus.decebal.nl>

Op Thursday 30 Apr 2015 00:38 CEST schreef Ian Kelly:

> On Wed, Apr 29, 2015 at 3:45 PM, Cecil Westerhof <Cecil at decebal.nl> wrote:
>> Op Wednesday 29 Apr 2015 21:57 CEST schreef Ian Kelly:
>>> And although it's not clear to me what this is supposed to be
>>> doing, you probably no longer need the middle term if the
>>> intention is to continue deleting all the way to the end of the
>>> list (if it is then I think you have a bug in the existing
>>> implementation, since the last item in the list can never be
>>> deleted).
>>
>> What do you mean by this? Executing:
>> lucky_numbers(5)
>> gives:
>> [1, 3]
>>
>> So the last element (5) is deleted.
>
> Off by one error on my part. This is why negative skip values on
> ranges and slices are not recommended: they're confusing. :-)
>
> In that case you can definitely omit the middle term of the slice,
> which will be both more concise and clearer in intent, though
> probably not significantly faster.

It is certainly nit faster. It is even significantly slower. With the
middle term lucky_numbers(int(1e6)) takes 0.13 seconds. Without it
takes 14.3 seconds. Hundred times as long.

-- 
Cecil Westerhof
Senior Software Engineer
LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/cecilwesterhof


From steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info  Wed Apr 29 20:11:53 2015
From: steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: Thu, 30 Apr 2015 10:11:53 +1000
Subject: Lucky numbers in Python
References: <87lhhabxod.fsf@Equus.decebal.nl>
 <mailman.95.1430337506.3680.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <5541734a$0$12995$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

On Thu, 30 Apr 2015 05:57 am, Ian Kelly wrote:

> On Wed, Apr 29, 2015 at 12:24 PM, Cecil Westerhof <Cecil at decebal.nl>
> wrote:
>> I was wondering if there is a way to do this:
>>             for del_index in range((sieve_len // skip_count) * skip_count
>>             - 1,
>>                                   skip_count - 2, -skip_count):
>>                 del sieve[del_index]
>> in a more efficient way.
> 
> You can delete using slices.
> 
> del sieve[(sieve_len // skip_count) * skip_count - 1 : skip_count - 2
> : -skip_count]
> 
> Now you no longer need to do the iteration in reverse, which makes the
> slicing simpler:
> 
> del sieve[skip_count - 1 : (sieve_len // skip_count) * skip_count :
> skip_count]

True, but *probably* at the expense of speed. When you delete items from a
list, the remaining items have to be moved, which takes time, especially
for very large lists.

Most of the time, rather than deleting items, it is faster to set them to a
placeholder (for example None) and then copy the ones which aren't None in
a separate loop:


def erat(n):
    """Return a list of primes up to and including n.

    This is a fixed-size version of the Sieve of Eratosthenes, using an
    adaptation of the traditional algorithm.

    >>> erat(30)
    [2, 3, 5, 7, 11, 13, 17, 19, 23, 29]

    """
    if n < 2:
        return []
    # Generate a fixed array of integers.
    arr = list(range(n+1))  # A list is faster than an array.
    # Cross out 0 and 1 since they aren't prime.
    arr[0] = arr[1] = None
    i = 2
    while i*i <= n:
        # Cross out all the multiples of i starting from i**2.
        for p in range(i*i, n+1, i):
            arr[p] = None
        # Advance to the next number not crossed off.
        i += 1
        while i <= n and arr[i] is None:
            i += 1
    # Copy the items which aren't None.
    return list(filter(None, arr))


The above is written for Python 3. In Python 2, you can safely drop the two
calls to list() since both range and filter already return lists.

Another alternative is to use slice assignment of the slices that you don't
delete, rather than deleting directly:


del alist[5:55]

is similar to:

alist[:] = alist[:4] + alist[55:]  # Note the [:] on the left.


Which is faster will probably depend on the specifics of the list.

But of course for small lists, none of this matters and you should just use
whatever is easiest and most natural to read.




-- 
Steven



From steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info  Wed Apr 29 20:19:21 2015
From: steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: Thu, 30 Apr 2015 10:19:21 +1000
Subject: seek operation in python
References: <8b2bd328-08a6-4211-85c4-8d117d1aae1e@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.90.1430331457.3680.python-list@python.org>
 <a636fbd1-f5d8-4a66-9191-ca2bdf6c27b2@googlegroups.com>
 <CAB1ii-dphkSXDhMMuhSPL7pZgquCiCjaQjcowm9NJz9=3pTeyQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.97.1430340906.3680.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <5541750b$0$13003$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

On Thu, 30 Apr 2015 06:53 am, Mark Lawrence wrote:

> The only good top poster is a dead top poster, except for...

Since you just top posted, at least you're being honest.

Mark, I'm fairly sure you were trying to be funny, but I think you just
crossed a line from "funny and mean" to "just mean but not funny". 


-- 
Steven



From rosuav at gmail.com  Wed Apr 29 20:33:19 2015
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Thu, 30 Apr 2015 10:33:19 +1000
Subject: seek operation in python
In-Reply-To: <8b2bd328-08a6-4211-85c4-8d117d1aae1e@googlegroups.com>
References: <8b2bd328-08a6-4211-85c4-8d117d1aae1e@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmoiS7ku9TbBkZcXczq7p=_W+0nVOdvR6Njc5j+tZgmqpg@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Apr 30, 2015 at 4:08 AM, siva sankari R <buddingrose11 at gmail.com> wrote:
> file=open("input","r")
> line=file.seek(7)
> print line
>
> The above code is supposed to print a line but it prints "none". I don't know where the mistake is. Help.!

Going right back to the beginning... Are you aware that 'seek' works
with byte positions? On a text file, you can't even do this, and even
on a byte file, it won't give you the seventh line.

If, as you say, it's only some eighty lines of code, the best solution
is probably the simplest: read the whole file into memory.

with open("input.cpp") as f:
    lines = f.readlines()
print(lines[7])

That will print out the seventh line (counting from zero; take
lines[6] if you want to count from one), rather than seeking to byte
position 7 and printing out from there to the end of a line.

I've made a few other changes in the example, too:

1) Not that it's a big deal, but I used "f' rather than "file",
because the latter is a built-in name in Python 2, and it's safer not
to shadow.
2) A 'with' block ensures that the file is closed promptly.
3) Parentheses around your 'print' make it compatible with the
function form as well as the statement.

They're all small changes, but clean code is good code :)

ChrisA


From rosuav at gmail.com  Wed Apr 29 20:44:53 2015
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Thu, 30 Apr 2015 10:44:53 +1000
Subject: ImportError with pickle (Python 2.7.9),
 possibly platform dependent
In-Reply-To: <494551ca-532f-4d4d-aff0-a3932416c8f4@googlegroups.com>
References: <494551ca-532f-4d4d-aff0-a3932416c8f4@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmrtMgOonyTyPngbCokT8v7dnRr5qoohgozQoAz6CLkC-g@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Apr 30, 2015 at 2:01 AM, Ben Sizer <kylotan at gmail.com> wrote:
> 1) There clearly is a module named OMDBMap, and it's importable - it's there in the 2nd line of the traceback.
>
> Does anybody have any suggestions on how I can go about debugging this? Or refactoring it to avoid whatever is happening here?

Are you half way through importing it when this load() call happens?
That might cause some issues.

Has your current directory been changed anywhere in there?

What happens if you catch this exception and print out sys.modules at
that point?

ChrisA


From brad.ahlers at gmail.com  Wed Apr 29 21:44:22 2015
From: brad.ahlers at gmail.com (brad.ahlers at gmail.com)
Date: Wed, 29 Apr 2015 18:44:22 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Google Web Search API
Message-ID: <fbe53f33-9772-4555-89ae-df8ef8cb498b@googlegroups.com>

Does anyone know of any current Python projects that utilize Google's search engine to return quick answers to questions? For example, if you Google "When did Abraham Lincoln die", Google returns "April 15, 1865" before listing any results. I know of many projects that utilize Google search to return actual search results (pygoogle) but not the quick answers above the results. 

I appreciate any responses!


From davea at davea.name  Wed Apr 29 22:31:13 2015
From: davea at davea.name (Dave Angel)
Date: Wed, 29 Apr 2015 22:31:13 -0400
Subject: Not possible to hide local variables
In-Reply-To: <mhqp33$dpj$2@reader1.panix.com>
References: <874mo0zoz2.fsf@Equus.decebal.nl> <mhqp33$dpj$2@reader1.panix.com>
Message-ID: <554193F1.5050109@davea.name>

On 04/29/2015 10:16 AM, Grant Edwards wrote:
> On 2015-04-28, Cecil Westerhof <Cecil at decebal.nl> wrote:
>> If I remember correctly you can not hide variables of a class or make
>> them read-only?
>>
>> I want to rewrite my moving average to python. The init is:
>>      def __init__(self, length):
>>          if type(length) != int:
>>              raise ParameterError, 'Parameter has to be an int'
>>          if n < 0:
>>              raise ValueError, 'Parameter should be greater or equal 2'
>>          self.length             = length
>>          self.old_values         = []
>>          self.current_total      = 0
>>
>> But when someone changes length, old_values, or current_total that
>> would wreck havoc with my class instance. What is the best way to
>> handle this?
>
> It's like the punchline to the old doctor joke: if it hurts when you
> do that, then don't _do_ that:
>
>    def __init__(self, length):
>        if type(length) != int:

Better:  if isinstance(length, int):

>            raise ParameterError, 'Parameter has to be an int'
>        if n < 0:

Better:   if length < 0:          (since n is undefined)

>            raise ValueError, 'Parameter should be greater or equal 2'
>        self._length             = length
>        self._old_values         = []
>        self._current_total      = 0
>
> The convention is that properties that start with underscores are
> private.  They're not hidden, but if people touch them and it breaks
> something, it's their fault.  Whether you go all Torvalds on their ass
> for doing so is left as an exercise for the reader.
>


-- 
DaveA


From ian.g.kelly at gmail.com  Wed Apr 29 22:55:29 2015
From: ian.g.kelly at gmail.com (Ian Kelly)
Date: Wed, 29 Apr 2015 20:55:29 -0600
Subject: Lucky numbers in Python
In-Reply-To: <871tj2bi2p.fsf@Equus.decebal.nl>
References: <87lhhabxod.fsf@Equus.decebal.nl>
 <mailman.95.1430337506.3680.python-list@python.org>
 <87d22mbod7.fsf@Equus.decebal.nl>
 <mailman.103.1430347166.3680.python-list@python.org>
 <871tj2bi2p.fsf@Equus.decebal.nl>
Message-ID: <CALwzid=2tjf-JD4o3OAEOQ=BOJSfyjX7tBNStt93vO1niZwFZQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Apr 29, 2015 at 6:01 PM, Cecil Westerhof <Cecil at decebal.nl> wrote:
> Op Thursday 30 Apr 2015 00:38 CEST schreef Ian Kelly:
>> In that case you can definitely omit the middle term of the slice,
>> which will be both more concise and clearer in intent, though
>> probably not significantly faster.
>
> It is certainly nit faster. It is even significantly slower. With the
> middle term lucky_numbers(int(1e6)) takes 0.13 seconds. Without it
> takes 14.3 seconds. Hundred times as long.

That would be rather surprising, since it's the same operation being
performed, so I did my own timing and came up with 0.25 seconds (best
of 3) with the middle term and 0.22 seconds without.

I suspect that you tested it as "del sieve[skip_count - 1 :
skip_count]" (which would delete only one item) rather than "del
sieve[skip_count - 1 :: skip_count]".


From ian.g.kelly at gmail.com  Wed Apr 29 23:08:36 2015
From: ian.g.kelly at gmail.com (Ian Kelly)
Date: Wed, 29 Apr 2015 21:08:36 -0600
Subject: Lucky numbers in Python
In-Reply-To: <5541734a$0$12995$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
References: <87lhhabxod.fsf@Equus.decebal.nl>
 <mailman.95.1430337506.3680.python-list@python.org>
 <5541734a$0$12995$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <CALwzidny=bnv+hKzn5HRQR1YrDH1-pyiZ5gi1xNGbq4iG0Nuag@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Apr 29, 2015 at 6:11 PM, Steven D'Aprano
<steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info> wrote:
> On Thu, 30 Apr 2015 05:57 am, Ian Kelly wrote:
>
>> On Wed, Apr 29, 2015 at 12:24 PM, Cecil Westerhof <Cecil at decebal.nl>
>> wrote:
>>> I was wondering if there is a way to do this:
>>>             for del_index in range((sieve_len // skip_count) * skip_count
>>>             - 1,
>>>                                   skip_count - 2, -skip_count):
>>>                 del sieve[del_index]
>>> in a more efficient way.
>>
>> You can delete using slices.
>>
>> del sieve[(sieve_len // skip_count) * skip_count - 1 : skip_count - 2
>> : -skip_count]
>>
>> Now you no longer need to do the iteration in reverse, which makes the
>> slicing simpler:
>>
>> del sieve[skip_count - 1 : (sieve_len // skip_count) * skip_count :
>> skip_count]
>
> True, but *probably* at the expense of speed. When you delete items from a
> list, the remaining items have to be moved, which takes time, especially
> for very large lists.
>
> Most of the time, rather than deleting items, it is faster to set them to a
> placeholder (for example None) and then copy the ones which aren't None in
> a separate loop:

You're correct, but I think this would be difficult to apply to the
OP's algorithm since the list indexing depends on the items from
previous iterations having been removed.


From torriem at gmail.com  Wed Apr 29 23:10:02 2015
From: torriem at gmail.com (Michael Torrie)
Date: Wed, 29 Apr 2015 21:10:02 -0600
Subject: Not possible to hide local variables
In-Reply-To: <87pp6nxxwe.fsf@Equus.decebal.nl>
References: <874mo0zoz2.fsf@Equus.decebal.nl>
 <mailman.57.1430207777.3680.python-list@python.org>
 <87pp6nxxwe.fsf@Equus.decebal.nl>
Message-ID: <55419D0A.30304@gmail.com>

On 04/29/2015 12:16 AM, Cecil Westerhof wrote:
>> Prefix those names with a single leading underscore, which is the
>> convention for private variables.
> 
> Done.
> 
>> This way, if some user (maybe you! ;) has a good reason to change
>> those values in can be done, but it is quite clear that said user is
>> mucking about with internals and they are on their own.
> 
> There is something to say for this way of working.

I must say your posts are refreshing.  It's good to see someone come
into Python and learn the conventions of Python and roll with it instead
of trying to insist on Java- or C++-isms and idioms.
Makes life so much better and easier for everyone!  And helps make
Python enjoyable for you as well. Keep up the good work.



From ikorot01 at gmail.com  Wed Apr 29 23:44:02 2015
From: ikorot01 at gmail.com (Igor Korot)
Date: Wed, 29 Apr 2015 23:44:02 -0400
Subject: Python download for 64-bit OS
Message-ID: <CA+FnnTxgin2Tph_SRaw-dF+aSUcOJX+B_SJo-+8F1yoX+AKRTQ@mail.gmail.com>

Hi, ALL,
I have a small issue.

Going to https://www.python.org/downloads/windows/, I see the python
2.7.9 download for x86 only. There is no 64-bit installer.

Where can I get one?

I'm on Win8.1 64-bit OS and prefer to work with 64-bit version...

Thank you.


From zachary.ware+pylist at gmail.com  Wed Apr 29 23:55:05 2015
From: zachary.ware+pylist at gmail.com (Zachary Ware)
Date: Wed, 29 Apr 2015 22:55:05 -0500
Subject: Python download for 64-bit OS
In-Reply-To: <CA+FnnTxgin2Tph_SRaw-dF+aSUcOJX+B_SJo-+8F1yoX+AKRTQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CA+FnnTxgin2Tph_SRaw-dF+aSUcOJX+B_SJo-+8F1yoX+AKRTQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAKJDb-OMD3ikgyg4dSFxk_Nq9i9Po-d6vcGZPQB46g2=v8bEZg@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Apr 29, 2015 at 10:44 PM, Igor Korot <ikorot01 at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi, ALL,
> I have a small issue.
>
> Going to https://www.python.org/downloads/windows/, I see the python
> 2.7.9 download for x86 only. There is no 64-bit installer.
>
> Where can I get one?
>
> I'm on Win8.1 64-bit OS and prefer to work with 64-bit version...

Hi Igor,

Right next to the link for x86 is the link for x86-64, which is the
64-bit version.  Also note that you really don't lose much by using
the 32-bit version on a 64-bit OS unless you're working with large
(>2GB) amounts of data that must all be in memory at the same time.

-- 
Zach


From rosuav at gmail.com  Wed Apr 29 23:56:57 2015
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Thu, 30 Apr 2015 13:56:57 +1000
Subject: Python download for 64-bit OS
In-Reply-To: <CA+FnnTxgin2Tph_SRaw-dF+aSUcOJX+B_SJo-+8F1yoX+AKRTQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CA+FnnTxgin2Tph_SRaw-dF+aSUcOJX+B_SJo-+8F1yoX+AKRTQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmqGTdJxvZPj7JjgcWtyjMGf+jJ29FVXxMsqfizD1Ovevw@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Apr 30, 2015 at 1:44 PM, Igor Korot <ikorot01 at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi, ALL,
> I have a small issue.
>
> Going to https://www.python.org/downloads/windows/, I see the python
> 2.7.9 download for x86 only. There is no 64-bit installer.
>
> Where can I get one?
>
> I'm on Win8.1 64-bit OS and prefer to work with 64-bit version...
>

There's some disagreement as to whether it should be called "amd64" or
"x86-64", but there's a link saying the latter and pointing to this:

https://www.python.org/ftp/python/2.7.9/python-2.7.9.amd64.msi

That's most likely to be the one you want for a modern Intel 64-bit system.

ChrisA


From steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info  Thu Apr 30 00:05:15 2015
From: steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: Thu, 30 Apr 2015 14:05:15 +1000
Subject: Not possible to hide local variables
References: <874mo0zoz2.fsf@Equus.decebal.nl>
 <553f46d2$0$11124$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
 <87h9rzxx5h.fsf@Equus.decebal.nl>
Message-ID: <5541a9fc$0$13014$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

On Wednesday 29 April 2015 16:32, Cecil Westerhof wrote:

>> The convention is, if the caller messes with your private attributes
>> or variables, and their code breaks, they have nobody to blame but
>> themselves, and we are allowed to laugh at them. We're consenting
>> adults here.
> 
> Coming from C/C++ and Java I have to get used to it, but I will manage
> I think.


If you have a Java background, you might find this useful:

http://dirtsimple.org/2004/12/python-is-not-java.html

http://dirtsimple.org/2004/12/java-is-not-python-either.html


-- 
Steven



From steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info  Thu Apr 30 00:29:31 2015
From: steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: Thu, 30 Apr 2015 14:29:31 +1000
Subject: str more precise in 3 as 2.7
References: <87twvzch2u.fsf@Equus.decebal.nl>
Message-ID: <5541afad$0$11119$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>

On Wednesday 29 April 2015 21:24, Cecil Westerhof wrote:

> I am trying to make my modules also work under Python 3. I found that
> str is more precise in Python 3. The expression:
>     str(134 / 6.0)
> gives in 2.7.8:
>     '22.3333333333'
> and in 3.4.1:
>     '22.333333333333332'

The precise details of how floats are displayed may vary. In general, if you 
care about the exact details, you should control them by hand using either 
C-style % string interpolation, or the format method:


py> x = 134 / 6.0
py> "%.16f" % x
'22.3333333333333321'
py> "{:.16f}".format(x)
'22.3333333333333321'


-- 
Steve



From marko at pacujo.net  Thu Apr 30 01:10:34 2015
From: marko at pacujo.net (Marko Rauhamaa)
Date: Thu, 30 Apr 2015 08:10:34 +0300
Subject: Not possible to hide local variables
References: <874mo0zoz2.fsf@Equus.decebal.nl>
 <553f46d2$0$11124$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
 <87h9rzxx5h.fsf@Equus.decebal.nl>
 <5541a9fc$0$13014$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <87383inqut.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>

Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info>:

> If you have a Java background, you might find this useful:
>
> http://dirtsimple.org/2004/12/python-is-not-java.html
>
> http://dirtsimple.org/2004/12/java-is-not-python-either.html

Unfortunately, I didn't find those articles all that insightful.

The one big difference between Java and Python is interfaces vs
ducktyping. In Java, you do everything through formal interfaces. In
Python, you do nothing through formal interfaces.

I occasionally see a Java class that doesn't implement an interface, and
there are abstract Python base classes that emulate interfaces. However,
I think both practices are nonidiomatic and should be avoided in their
respective domains.

Anonymous nested inner classes are syntactically cumbersome. However,
conceptually they are a fabulous device. They were popularized in Java
and I use them quite frequently in Python.


Marko


From rosuav at gmail.com  Thu Apr 30 02:01:18 2015
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Thu, 30 Apr 2015 16:01:18 +1000
Subject: Not possible to hide local variables
In-Reply-To: <87383inqut.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
References: <874mo0zoz2.fsf@Equus.decebal.nl>
 <553f46d2$0$11124$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
 <87h9rzxx5h.fsf@Equus.decebal.nl>
 <5541a9fc$0$13014$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
 <87383inqut.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmq-53hhKXx4T=kGCYp4xPOehtUkVMhVj1_Bw4k5j2NUpA@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Apr 30, 2015 at 3:10 PM, Marko Rauhamaa <marko at pacujo.net> wrote:
> Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python at pearwood.info>:
>
>> If you have a Java background, you might find this useful:
>>
>> http://dirtsimple.org/2004/12/python-is-not-java.html
>>
>> http://dirtsimple.org/2004/12/java-is-not-python-either.html
>
> Unfortunately, I didn't find those articles all that insightful.
>
> The one big difference between Java and Python is interfaces vs
> ducktyping. In Java, you do everything through formal interfaces. In
> Python, you do nothing through formal interfaces.

The other big difference between C++/Java and Python is that the
former have everything hidden by default, and the latter has
everything public by default. Compare:

class Point {
    int x, y;
public:
    Point(int _x, int _y): x(_x), y(_y) {}
    int get_x() {return x;}
    void set_x(int newx) {x = newx;}
    int get_y() {return y;}
    void set_y(int newy) {x = newy;}
};

void interpolate_points(Point from, Point to, Point **target, int count)
{
    int delta_x = to.get_x() - from.get_x();
    int delta_y = to.get_y() - from.get_y();
    for (int i=0;i<count;++i)
        target[i] = new Point(from.get_x() + delta_x*i/count,
from.get_y() + delta_y*i/count);
}


class Point(object):
    def __init__(self, x, y):
        self.x = x
        self.y = y

def interpolate_points(from, to, count):
    delta_x = to.x - from.x
    delta_y = to.y - from.y
    return [Point(from.x + delta_y*i/count, from.y + delta_y*i/count)
for i in range(count)]

Okay, part of the improvement is the list comp rather than C-style
array return, and you could improve on that some in C++ even; but the
rigmarole of getters and setters is a completely unnecessary bug
magnet. (There's one in the above code. I was going to fix it, but
it's more indicative to leave it there.) Most classes do not need that
overhead. In the rare cases where they do, Python lets you smoothly
shift from a simple member to a property, so you can add logging or
whatever. (Though... don't abuse that. I've seen code that puts
@property on functions that do *network operations*, I kid you not.
This completely violates the expectation that attribute lookup is
simple and cheap.) As a small side benefit, there's no hassles about
naming ("get_x" vs "_x" vs "x"); you could avoid _x by using a
Python-style "this->x" everywhere in the C++ code, but that won't fix
get_x.

So clearly Python has the advantage, right? Well, not so clear. The
philosophical abhorrence of remote mutation in C++ makes it a lot
easier to reason about the code - you can look at the class definition
itself and guarantee you can see every change to a private member.
(Aside from naughty pointer manipulation and stuff. But in Python, we
have to say "Aside from fiddling with ctypes", so this is like the
Mistform Ultimus disclaimer[1].) In Python, you have to balance that
in application code; is it safe to change some object's member? Can
you just reach in and change the "read_callback" member to be a new
function reference, or might it have been referenced somewhere else?
Will you cause problems for yourself by replacing this actual file
with a StringIO file-like object? How can you know?

So the freedom is there, but it has to be used intelligently.

ChrisA

[1] eg http://archive.wizards.com/Magic/Magazine/Article.aspx?x=mtg/daily/arcana/1370
and http://archive.wizards.com/Magic/magazine/article.aspx?x=mtg/daily/arcana/1300


From Cecil at decebal.nl  Thu Apr 30 02:27:29 2015
From: Cecil at decebal.nl (Cecil Westerhof)
Date: Thu, 30 Apr 2015 08:27:29 +0200
Subject: seek operation in python
References: <8b2bd328-08a6-4211-85c4-8d117d1aae1e@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.107.1430354001.3680.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <87vbge9lm6.fsf@Equus.decebal.nl>

Op Thursday 30 Apr 2015 02:33 CEST schreef Chris Angelico:

> On Thu, Apr 30, 2015 at 4:08 AM, siva sankari R <buddingrose11 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> file=open("input","r")
>> line=file.seek(7)
>> print line
>>
>> The above code is supposed to print a line but it prints "none". I
>> don't know where the mistake is. Help.!
>
> Going right back to the beginning... Are you aware that 'seek' works
> with byte positions? On a text file, you can't even do this, and
> even on a byte file, it won't give you the seventh line.
>
> If, as you say, it's only some eighty lines of code, the best
> solution is probably the simplest: read the whole file into memory.
>
> with open("input.cpp") as f:
> lines = f.readlines()
> print(lines[7])

Is the following not better:
    print(open('input.cpp', 'r').readlines()[7])

Time is the same (about 25 seconds for 100.000 calls), but I find this
more clear.

-- 
Cecil Westerhof
Senior Software Engineer
LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/cecilwesterhof


From Cecil at decebal.nl  Thu Apr 30 02:34:26 2015
From: Cecil at decebal.nl (Cecil Westerhof)
Date: Thu, 30 Apr 2015 08:34:26 +0200
Subject: Lucky numbers in Python
References: <87lhhabxod.fsf@Equus.decebal.nl>
 <mailman.95.1430337506.3680.python-list@python.org>
 <87d22mbod7.fsf@Equus.decebal.nl>
 <mailman.103.1430347166.3680.python-list@python.org>
 <871tj2bi2p.fsf@Equus.decebal.nl>
 <mailman.110.1430362572.3680.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <87r3r29lal.fsf@Equus.decebal.nl>

Op Thursday 30 Apr 2015 04:55 CEST schreef Ian Kelly:

> On Wed, Apr 29, 2015 at 6:01 PM, Cecil Westerhof <Cecil at decebal.nl> wrote:
>> Op Thursday 30 Apr 2015 00:38 CEST schreef Ian Kelly:
>>> In that case you can definitely omit the middle term of the slice,
>>> which will be both more concise and clearer in intent, though
>>> probably not significantly faster.
>>
>> It is certainly nit faster. It is even significantly slower. With
>> the middle term lucky_numbers(int(1e6)) takes 0.13 seconds. Without
>> it takes 14.3 seconds. Hundred times as long.
>
> That would be rather surprising, since it's the same operation being
> performed, so I did my own timing and came up with 0.25 seconds
> (best of 3) with the middle term and 0.22 seconds without.
>
> I suspect that you tested it as "del sieve[skip_count - 1 :
> skip_count]" (which would delete only one item) rather than "del
> sieve[skip_count - 1 :: skip_count]".

Yeah, that is how I interpreted omitting the middle term. But it
seemed to give the right results.

With your amendment it runs slightly faster. With 1E7 it is 8.0 and
7.7. So almost 4% faster.

-- 
Cecil Westerhof
Senior Software Engineer
LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/cecilwesterhof


From Cecil at decebal.nl  Thu Apr 30 03:07:51 2015
From: Cecil at decebal.nl (Cecil Westerhof)
Date: Thu, 30 Apr 2015 09:07:51 +0200
Subject: Python is not bad ;-)
Message-ID: <87mw1q9jqw.fsf@Equus.decebal.nl>

I am coding with Python again. I like it that the code is concise and
clear. But also that the performance is not bad.

I wrote Lucky Numbers in Clojure and Python.
When calling with 1E7 Clojure takes 12 seconds and Python 8 seconds.
When calling it with 1E8 Clojure takes all 4/8 cores and gets an out
of memory.
Python takes one core and is finished after 888 seconds.

When I call the Python version with 1E9 it is killed after 27 seconds.
I get a message Killed and the error code is 137. Probably also an out
of memory.

When I do that the computer is freezed a few times. That is a little
less nice. Does not happen with Clojure when it gets an out of memory.

-- 
Cecil Westerhof
Senior Software Engineer
LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/cecilwesterhof


From rosuav at gmail.com  Thu Apr 30 03:33:25 2015
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Thu, 30 Apr 2015 17:33:25 +1000
Subject: seek operation in python
In-Reply-To: <87vbge9lm6.fsf@Equus.decebal.nl>
References: <8b2bd328-08a6-4211-85c4-8d117d1aae1e@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.107.1430354001.3680.python-list@python.org>
 <87vbge9lm6.fsf@Equus.decebal.nl>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmpLxG6B9Ya3p_MaqZmCJa8PUCCJAyO4Y4Q2Ro+RyfAF3Q@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Apr 30, 2015 at 4:27 PM, Cecil Westerhof <Cecil at decebal.nl> wrote:
>> with open("input.cpp") as f:
>> lines = f.readlines()
>> print(lines[7])
>
> Is the following not better:
>     print(open('input.cpp', 'r').readlines()[7])
>
> Time is the same (about 25 seconds for 100.000 calls), but I find this
> more clear.

The significant difference is that the 'with' block guarantees to
close the file promptly. With CPython it probably won't make a lot of
difference, and in a tiny script it won't do much either, but if you
do this on Jython or IronPython or MicroPython or some other
implementation, it may well make a gigantic difference - your loop
might actually fail because the file's still open.

ChrisA


From Cecil at decebal.nl  Thu Apr 30 03:43:06 2015
From: Cecil at decebal.nl (Cecil Westerhof)
Date: Thu, 30 Apr 2015 09:43:06 +0200
Subject: Let exception fire or return None
Message-ID: <87bni6awol.fsf@Equus.decebal.nl>

I have a function to fetch a message from a file:
    def get_indexed_message(message_filename, index):
        """
        Get index message from a file, where 0 gets the first message
        """

        return open(expanduser(message_filename), 'r').readlines()[index].rstrip()

What is more the Python way: let the exception fire like this code
when index is to big, or catching it and returning None?

I suppose working zero based is OK.

-- 
Cecil Westerhof
Senior Software Engineer
LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/cecilwesterhof


From Cecil at decebal.nl  Thu Apr 30 04:06:13 2015
From: Cecil at decebal.nl (Cecil Westerhof)
Date: Thu, 30 Apr 2015 10:06:13 +0200
Subject: seek operation in python
References: <8b2bd328-08a6-4211-85c4-8d117d1aae1e@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.107.1430354001.3680.python-list@python.org>
 <87vbge9lm6.fsf@Equus.decebal.nl>
 <mailman.118.1430379207.3680.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <87y4lavy4q.fsf@Equus.decebal.nl>

Op Thursday 30 Apr 2015 09:33 CEST schreef Chris Angelico:

> On Thu, Apr 30, 2015 at 4:27 PM, Cecil Westerhof <Cecil at decebal.nl> wrote:
>>> with open("input.cpp") as f:
>>> lines = f.readlines()
>>> print(lines[7])
>>
>> Is the following not better:
>> print(open('input.cpp', 'r').readlines()[7])
>>
>> Time is the same (about 25 seconds for 100.000 calls), but I find
>> this more clear.
>
> The significant difference is that the 'with' block guarantees to
> close the file promptly. With CPython it probably won't make a lot
> of difference, and in a tiny script it won't do much either, but if
> you do this on Jython or IronPython or MicroPython or some other
> implementation, it may well make a gigantic difference - your loop
> might actually fail because the file's still open.

I thought that in this case the file was also closed. But if that is
not the case I should think about this when I switch to another
version as CPython.

I wrote a module where I have:
    def get_indexed_message(message_filename, index):
        """
        Get index message from a file, where 0 gets the first message
        """

        return open(expanduser(message_filename), 'r').readlines()[index].rstrip()

But this can be used by others also and they could be using Jython or
another implementation. So should I rewrite this and other functions?
Or would it be OK because the open is in a function?

-- 
Cecil Westerhof
Senior Software Engineer
LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/cecilwesterhof


From davea at davea.name  Thu Apr 30 04:18:06 2015
From: davea at davea.name (Dave Angel)
Date: Thu, 30 Apr 2015 04:18:06 -0400
Subject: Let exception fire or return None
In-Reply-To: <87bni6awol.fsf@Equus.decebal.nl>
References: <87bni6awol.fsf@Equus.decebal.nl>
Message-ID: <5541E53E.4090103@davea.name>

On 04/30/2015 03:43 AM, Cecil Westerhof wrote:
> I have a function to fetch a message from a file:
>      def get_indexed_message(message_filename, index):
>          """
>          Get index message from a file, where 0 gets the first message
>          """
>
>          return open(expanduser(message_filename), 'r').readlines()[index].rstrip()
>
> What is more the Python way: let the exception fire like this code
> when index is to big, or catching it and returning None?
>
> I suppose working zero based is OK.
>

Fire an exception.

One advantage is that the exception will pinpoint exactly which line of 
the function had a problem.



-- 
DaveA


From davea at davea.name  Thu Apr 30 04:31:26 2015
From: davea at davea.name (Dave Angel)
Date: Thu, 30 Apr 2015 04:31:26 -0400
Subject: seek operation in python
In-Reply-To: <87y4lavy4q.fsf@Equus.decebal.nl>
References: <8b2bd328-08a6-4211-85c4-8d117d1aae1e@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.107.1430354001.3680.python-list@python.org>
 <87vbge9lm6.fsf@Equus.decebal.nl>
 <mailman.118.1430379207.3680.python-list@python.org>
 <87y4lavy4q.fsf@Equus.decebal.nl>
Message-ID: <5541E85E.70405@davea.name>

On 04/30/2015 04:06 AM, Cecil Westerhof wrote:
> Op Thursday 30 Apr 2015 09:33 CEST schreef Chris Angelico:
>
>> On Thu, Apr 30, 2015 at 4:27 PM, Cecil Westerhof <Cecil at decebal.nl> wrote:
>>>> with open("input.cpp") as f:
>>>> lines = f.readlines()
>>>> print(lines[7])
>>>
>>> Is the following not better:
>>> print(open('input.cpp', 'r').readlines()[7])
>>>
>>> Time is the same (about 25 seconds for 100.000 calls), but I find
>>> this more clear.
>>
>> The significant difference is that the 'with' block guarantees to
>> close the file promptly. With CPython it probably won't make a lot
>> of difference, and in a tiny script it won't do much either, but if
>> you do this on Jython or IronPython or MicroPython or some other
>> implementation, it may well make a gigantic difference - your loop
>> might actually fail because the file's still open.
>
> I thought that in this case the file was also closed. But if that is
> not the case I should think about this when I switch to another
> version as CPython.
>
> I wrote a module where I have:
>      def get_indexed_message(message_filename, index):
>          """
>          Get index message from a file, where 0 gets the first message
>          """
>
>          return open(expanduser(message_filename), 'r').readlines()[index].rstrip()
>
> But this can be used by others also and they could be using Jython or
> another implementation. So should I rewrite this and other functions?
> Or would it be OK because the open is in a function?
>

No, it's not going to close the file just because the open is in a 
function.  The "with" construct was designed to help solve exactly this 
problem.  Please use it.



-- 
DaveA


From Cecil at decebal.nl  Thu Apr 30 05:06:10 2015
From: Cecil at decebal.nl (Cecil Westerhof)
Date: Thu, 30 Apr 2015 11:06:10 +0200
Subject: seek operation in python
References: <8b2bd328-08a6-4211-85c4-8d117d1aae1e@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.107.1430354001.3680.python-list@python.org>
 <87vbge9lm6.fsf@Equus.decebal.nl>
 <mailman.118.1430379207.3680.python-list@python.org>
 <87y4lavy4q.fsf@Equus.decebal.nl>
 <mailman.120.1430382699.3680.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <87twvyvvct.fsf@Equus.decebal.nl>

Op Thursday 30 Apr 2015 10:31 CEST schreef Dave Angel:

> On 04/30/2015 04:06 AM, Cecil Westerhof wrote:
>> Op Thursday 30 Apr 2015 09:33 CEST schreef Chris Angelico:
>>
>>> On Thu, Apr 30, 2015 at 4:27 PM, Cecil Westerhof <Cecil at decebal.nl> wrote:
>>>>> with open("input.cpp") as f:
>>>>> lines = f.readlines()
>>>>> print(lines[7])
>>>>
>>>> Is the following not better:
>>>> print(open('input.cpp', 'r').readlines()[7])
>>>>
>>>> Time is the same (about 25 seconds for 100.000 calls), but I find
>>>> this more clear.
>>>
>>> The significant difference is that the 'with' block guarantees to
>>> close the file promptly. With CPython it probably won't make a lot
>>> of difference, and in a tiny script it won't do much either, but
>>> if you do this on Jython or IronPython or MicroPython or some
>>> other implementation, it may well make a gigantic difference -
>>> your loop might actually fail because the file's still open.
>>
>> I thought that in this case the file was also closed. But if that
>> is not the case I should think about this when I switch to another
>> version as CPython.
>>
>> I wrote a module where I have:
>> def get_indexed_message(message_filename, index):
>> """
>> Get index message from a file, where 0 gets the first message
>> """
>>
>> return open(expanduser(message_filename),
>> 'r').readlines()[index].rstrip()
>>
>> But this can be used by others also and they could be using Jython
>> or another implementation. So should I rewrite this and other
>> functions? Or would it be OK because the open is in a function?
>>
>
> No, it's not going to close the file just because the open is in a
> function. The "with" construct was designed to help solve exactly
> this problem. Please use it.

I already done it. I thought it not to much work. And it even makes
some code shorter:
-    marshal_file    = open(expanduser(marshal_filename), 'r')
-    not_list        = load(marshal_file)
-    marshal_file.close()
-    return not_list
+    with open(expanduser(marshal_filename), 'r') as f:
+        return load(f)

But here I did the close myself already, so that is not completely
honest of me. ;-)

I should spend some time to make my code more consistent.

-- 
Cecil Westerhof
Senior Software Engineer
LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/cecilwesterhof


From ben+python at benfinney.id.au  Thu Apr 30 05:10:23 2015
From: ben+python at benfinney.id.au (Ben Finney)
Date: Thu, 30 Apr 2015 19:10:23 +1000
Subject: Python is not bad ;-)
References: <87mw1q9jqw.fsf@Equus.decebal.nl>
Message-ID: <85h9ryhthc.fsf@benfinney.id.au>

Cecil Westerhof <Cecil at decebal.nl> writes:

> I am coding with Python again.

Great to know!

> I like it that the code is concise and clear. But also that the
> performance is not bad.

The former is a property of Python, which is a programming language. I
agree with your assessment :-)

The latter is not a property of Python; a programming language doesn't
have runtime performance. Rather, runtime performance is a property of
some specific *implementation* ? that is, the runtime Python machine.

There are numerous Python runtimes, and they have different performance
characteristics on different hardware and operating systems.

    <URL:https://wiki.python.org/moin/PythonImplementations>

You might be talking about performance on CPython. But you might not! I
don't know.

Have you looked at PyPy ? Python implemented in Python ? and compared
its performance?

-- 
 \     ?I went camping and borrowed a circus tent by mistake. I didn't |
  `\      notice until I got it set up. People complained because they |
_o__)                           couldn't see the lake.? ?Steven Wright |
Ben Finney



From Cecil at decebal.nl  Thu Apr 30 05:13:05 2015
From: Cecil at decebal.nl (Cecil Westerhof)
Date: Thu, 30 Apr 2015 11:13:05 +0200
Subject: Let exception fire or return None
References: <87bni6awol.fsf@Equus.decebal.nl>
 <mailman.119.1430381898.3680.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <87pp6mvv1a.fsf@Equus.decebal.nl>

Op Thursday 30 Apr 2015 10:18 CEST schreef Dave Angel:

> On 04/30/2015 03:43 AM, Cecil Westerhof wrote:
>> I have a function to fetch a message from a file:
>> def get_indexed_message(message_filename, index):
>> """
>> Get index message from a file, where 0 gets the first message
>> """
>>
>> return open(expanduser(message_filename),
>> 'r').readlines()[index].rstrip()
>>
>> What is more the Python way: let the exception fire like this code
>> when index is to big, or catching it and returning None?
>>
>> I suppose working zero based is OK.
>>
>
> Fire an exception.
>
> One advantage is that the exception will pinpoint exactly which line
> of the function had a problem.

That is what I did. The only ?problem? is that they need to catch the
error if they do not know the number of messages in the file. But they
can use get_nr_of_messages for that.

-- 
Cecil Westerhof
Senior Software Engineer
LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/cecilwesterhof


From __peter__ at web.de  Thu Apr 30 05:30:21 2015
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Thu, 30 Apr 2015 11:30:21 +0200
Subject: Let exception fire or return None
References: <87bni6awol.fsf@Equus.decebal.nl>
Message-ID: <mhssne$bvu$1@ger.gmane.org>

Cecil Westerhof wrote:

> I have a function to fetch a message from a file:
>     def get_indexed_message(message_filename, index):
>         """
>         Get index message from a file, where 0 gets the first message
>         """
> 
>         return open(expanduser(message_filename),
>         'r').readlines()[index].rstrip()
> 
> What is more the Python way: let the exception fire like this code
> when index is to big, or catching it and returning None?

Fire an exception, but you may also allow the user to provide a default.

> I suppose working zero based is OK.

Not just OK, it's de rigueur. 


You didn't ask for that, but

(1)

with open(...) as f:
    return f.readlines()[index].rstrip()

is preferrable because it closes the file in a controlled way and 

(2) you may want to take measures to limit memory usage, e. g. 

assert index >= 0
try:
    [line] = itertools.islice(f, index, index+1)
except ValueError:
    raise IndexError
return line.rstrip()



From rosuav at gmail.com  Thu Apr 30 05:39:10 2015
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Thu, 30 Apr 2015 19:39:10 +1000
Subject: seek operation in python
In-Reply-To: <87twvyvvct.fsf@Equus.decebal.nl>
References: <8b2bd328-08a6-4211-85c4-8d117d1aae1e@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.107.1430354001.3680.python-list@python.org>
 <87vbge9lm6.fsf@Equus.decebal.nl>
 <mailman.118.1430379207.3680.python-list@python.org>
 <87y4lavy4q.fsf@Equus.decebal.nl>
 <mailman.120.1430382699.3680.python-list@python.org>
 <87twvyvvct.fsf@Equus.decebal.nl>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmo9_njDPn8DF1wckHAOKV_rzD_JzgAmoW3WDj9fBaC22w@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Apr 30, 2015 at 7:06 PM, Cecil Westerhof <Cecil at decebal.nl> wrote:
> I already done it. I thought it not to much work. And it even makes
> some code shorter:
> -    marshal_file    = open(expanduser(marshal_filename), 'r')
> -    not_list        = load(marshal_file)
> -    marshal_file.close()
> -    return not_list
> +    with open(expanduser(marshal_filename), 'r') as f:
> +        return load(f)
>
> But here I did the close myself already, so that is not completely
> honest of me. ;-)

The context manager makes your code more concise AND more reliable -
an exception thrown by load() will skip the explicit close(), but the
'with' block unwinds correctly whether there's an exception or not.

ChrisA


From marko at pacujo.net  Thu Apr 30 06:16:32 2015
From: marko at pacujo.net (Marko Rauhamaa)
Date: Thu, 30 Apr 2015 13:16:32 +0300
Subject: Python is not bad ;-)
References: <87mw1q9jqw.fsf@Equus.decebal.nl>
 <mailman.121.1430385051.3680.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <87383hj4zj.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>

Ben Finney <ben+python at benfinney.id.au>:

> The latter is not a property of Python; a programming language doesn't
> have runtime performance. Rather, runtime performance is a property of
> some specific *implementation* ? that is, the runtime Python machine.
>
> There are numerous Python runtimes, and they have different
> performance characteristics on different hardware and operating
> systems.

Still, Python has features that defy effective optimization. Most
notably, Python's dot notation translates into a hash table lookup -- or
worse.

I currently carry three clubs in my professional golf bag: bash, python
and C. Java is a great programming language, but Python and C manage
everything Java would be useful for.


Marko


From rosuav at gmail.com  Thu Apr 30 06:52:03 2015
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Thu, 30 Apr 2015 20:52:03 +1000
Subject: Python is not bad ;-)
In-Reply-To: <87383hj4zj.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
References: <87mw1q9jqw.fsf@Equus.decebal.nl>
 <mailman.121.1430385051.3680.python-list@python.org>
 <87383hj4zj.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmpzethkSaEdYnNL-N69t-xJE42OmJ18GCC9Z+-WOFaZbA@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Apr 30, 2015 at 8:16 PM, Marko Rauhamaa <marko at pacujo.net> wrote:
> Ben Finney <ben+python at benfinney.id.au>:
>
>> The latter is not a property of Python; a programming language doesn't
>> have runtime performance. Rather, runtime performance is a property of
>> some specific *implementation* ? that is, the runtime Python machine.
>>
>> There are numerous Python runtimes, and they have different
>> performance characteristics on different hardware and operating
>> systems.
>
> Still, Python has features that defy effective optimization. Most
> notably, Python's dot notation translates into a hash table lookup -- or
> worse.
>
> I currently carry three clubs in my professional golf bag: bash, python
> and C. Java is a great programming language, but Python and C manage
> everything Java would be useful for.

(I carry a lot more clubs in my bag. The Ace of Clubs for me is Pike,
but Python comes in a close second; both are decently high
performance, quick to write code in, and come with extensive standard
libraries. Any bash script that grows to more than a page or so of
code usually finds itself rewritten in Python or Pike; C is mainly for
writing high level programming languages in.)

Most of the programs that I write spend their time on work far more
serious than looking up names in dictionaries. For instance, one of my
programs [1] shells out to avconv and sox to do a bunch of big file
conversions, doing its best to fill up my hard disk (eighty-odd gig of
intermediate files is a good start), and ultimately producing one
hefty video file. Another that I contribute heavily to [2] uses lame
to manipulate a bunch of .MP3 files and, ultimately, stream them down
an internet connection. A third [3] sleeps its entire life away,
either making network requests and waiting for the responses, or
outright sleep()ing until it needs to go do something again. If the
cost of run-time lookups of dotted names were to increase by an order
of magnitude, not one of them would materially change in performance.
Sure, you can do microbenchmarks that show that Python takes X times
longer to parse "x.y.z" than Java does, but if that's seriously
impacting your real-world code, what are you doing?

About the only time when Python performance makes a real difference is
on startup. Mercurial, for instance, has to be invoked, initialized,
and shut down, for every command. (That's why git tends to outdo it in
a lot of ways, thanks to being written mainly in C and Perl.) So yes,
there are efforts every now and then to cut the startup time, where
however-many modules all have to get imported and set up. In the most
micro of microbenchmarks, here's what it takes to do nothing in
several languages:

rosuav at sikorsky:~$ cat repeat.sh
for i in {1..100}; do $@; done

rosuav at sikorsky:~$ time bash repeat.sh pike -e ';'

real 0m8.504s
user 0m7.928s
sys 0m0.436s
rosuav at sikorsky:~$ time bash repeat.sh python3 -c pass

real 0m3.094s
user 0m2.400s
sys 0m0.424s
rosuav at sikorsky:~$ time bash repeat.sh python2 -c pass

real 0m1.843s
user 0m1.136s
sys 0m0.488s

rosuav at sikorsky:~$ echo 'int main() {return 0;}' |gcc -x c -
rosuav at sikorsky:~$ time bash repeat.sh ./a.out

real 0m0.076s
user 0m0.004s
sys 0m0.012s

So, yeah. Pike's a poor choice and C's superb if you want to start up
and shut down real fast. Great. But as soon as those figures get
dwarfed by real work, nothing else matters. It's a rare situation
where you really need to start a program in less than 0.085 seconds.

ChrisA

[1] https://github.com/Rosuav/FrozenOST
[2] https://github.com/MikeiLL/appension
[3] https://github.com/Rosuav/LetMeKnow


From Cecil at decebal.nl  Thu Apr 30 07:10:09 2015
From: Cecil at decebal.nl (Cecil Westerhof)
Date: Thu, 30 Apr 2015 13:10:09 +0200
Subject: Python is not bad ;-)
References: <87mw1q9jqw.fsf@Equus.decebal.nl>
 <mailman.121.1430385051.3680.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <87lhh9x46m.fsf@Equus.decebal.nl>

Op Thursday 30 Apr 2015 11:10 CEST schreef Ben Finney:

>> I like it that the code is concise and clear. But also that the
>> performance is not bad.
>
> The former is a property of Python, which is a programming language.
> I agree with your assessment :-)
>
> The latter is not a property of Python; a programming language
> doesn't have runtime performance. Rather, runtime performance is a
> property of some specific *implementation* ? that is, the runtime
> Python machine.
>
> There are numerous Python runtimes, and they have different
> performance characteristics on different hardware and operating
> systems.
>
> <URL:https://wiki.python.org/moin/PythonImplementations>
>
> You might be talking about performance on CPython. But you might
> not! I don't know.

I understood when you did not explicitly mention it, it normally is
CPython. And in my case it is.

I should try it also in Jython, because Clojure runs in de JVM.


> Have you looked at PyPy ? Python implemented in Python ? and
> compared its performance?

Not yet. Busy hacking away. :-D

-- 
Cecil Westerhof
Senior Software Engineer
LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/cecilwesterhof


From Cecil at decebal.nl  Thu Apr 30 07:26:01 2015
From: Cecil at decebal.nl (Cecil Westerhof)
Date: Thu, 30 Apr 2015 13:26:01 +0200
Subject: Let exception fire or return None
References: <87bni6awol.fsf@Equus.decebal.nl>
 <mailman.122.1430386245.3680.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <87h9rxx3g6.fsf@Equus.decebal.nl>

Op Thursday 30 Apr 2015 11:30 CEST schreef Peter Otten:

> Cecil Westerhof wrote:
>
>> I have a function to fetch a message from a file:
>> def get_indexed_message(message_filename, index):
>> """
>> Get index message from a file, where 0 gets the first message
>> """
>>
>> return open(expanduser(message_filename),
>> 'r').readlines()[index].rstrip()
>>
>> What is more the Python way: let the exception fire like this code
>> when index is to big, or catching it and returning None?
>
> Fire an exception, but you may also allow the user to provide a
> default.
>
>> I suppose working zero based is OK.
>
> Not just OK, it's de rigueur. 
>
>
> You didn't ask for that, but
>
> (1)
>
> with open(...) as f:
> return f.readlines()[index].rstrip()
>
> is preferrable because it closes the file in a controlled way and 

I already did that. In another thread I got to know my assumptions
where wrong.


> (2) you may want to take measures to limit memory usage, e. g. 
>
> assert index >= 0

I put that in, but as first statement.

> try:
> [line] = itertools.islice(f, index, index+1)
> except ValueError:
> raise IndexError
> return line.rstrip()

In my case it is not important. (The biggest file I use has between
100 and 200 lines), but I publish it, so I should do my best to make
it so lean as possible.

To quote a famous comedian: ?Learning all the time?.

-- 
Cecil Westerhof
Senior Software Engineer
LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/cecilwesterhof


From Cecil at decebal.nl  Thu Apr 30 07:30:22 2015
From: Cecil at decebal.nl (Cecil Westerhof)
Date: Thu, 30 Apr 2015 13:30:22 +0200
Subject: Python is not bad ;-)
References: <87mw1q9jqw.fsf@Equus.decebal.nl>
 <mailman.121.1430385051.3680.python-list@python.org>
 <87383hj4zj.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
Message-ID: <87d22lx38x.fsf@Equus.decebal.nl>

Op Thursday 30 Apr 2015 12:16 CEST schreef Marko Rauhamaa:

> Ben Finney <ben+python at benfinney.id.au>:
>
>> The latter is not a property of Python; a programming language
>> doesn't have runtime performance. Rather, runtime performance is a
>> property of some specific *implementation* ? that is, the runtime
>> Python machine.
>>
>> There are numerous Python runtimes, and they have different
>> performance characteristics on different hardware and operating
>> systems.
>
> Still, Python has features that defy effective optimization. Most
> notably, Python's dot notation translates into a hash table lookup
> -- or worse.

Tail recursion would nice to have also.

> I currently carry three clubs in my professional golf bag: bash,

I published a Bash library:
    https://github.com/CecilWesterhof/BashLibrary

Maybe there is something useful in it for you. And if you need
something: let me know. No guarantees, but I could write it for you.

-- 
Cecil Westerhof
Senior Software Engineer
LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/cecilwesterhof


From otlucaDELETE at DELETEyahoo.it  Thu Apr 30 07:48:19 2015
From: otlucaDELETE at DELETEyahoo.it (Luca Menegotto)
Date: Thu, 30 Apr 2015 13:48:19 +0200
Subject: Let me introduce myself.
Message-ID: <mht4q0$v5o$1@speranza.aioe.org>

Hello everybody.

One of the common rules i like most is: when you enter in a community, 
introduce yourself!

So here I am! Luca, old developer (50 and still running!), Python (and 
not only) developer, from Marostica, a lovely small town in the 
north-eastern part of Italy.

It's a pleasure for me to notice that an NNTP newsgroup regarding Python 
is alive and kicking!

-- 
Ciao!
Luca Menegotto.


From mail at timgolden.me.uk  Thu Apr 30 08:03:51 2015
From: mail at timgolden.me.uk (Tim Golden)
Date: Thu, 30 Apr 2015 13:03:51 +0100
Subject: Let me introduce myself.
In-Reply-To: <mht4q0$v5o$1@speranza.aioe.org>
References: <mht4q0$v5o$1@speranza.aioe.org>
Message-ID: <55421A27.1090108@timgolden.me.uk>

On 30/04/2015 12:48, Luca Menegotto wrote:
> Hello everybody.

Hi Luca,
> 
> One of the common rules i like most is: when you enter in a community,
> introduce yourself!

In fact, many people don't on this list, so it's nice of you to offer us
this courtesy :)


> 
> So here I am! Luca, old developer (50 and still running!), Python (and
> not only) developer, from Marostica, a lovely small town in the
> north-eastern part of Italy.
> 
> It's a pleasure for me to notice that an NNTP newsgroup regarding Python
> is alive and kicking!

... and it's a mailing list as as well -- gatewayed both ways. (I read
it as a mailing list). It's also mirrored in a few places like Google
Groups and gmane. So definitely alive & kicking.

Welcome to our community. Feel free to join in the friendly and --
sometimes quite lively & extended -- discussions.

TJG


From PointedEars at web.de  Thu Apr 30 08:05:22 2015
From: PointedEars at web.de (Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn)
Date: Thu, 30 Apr 2015 14:05:22 +0200
Subject: Let exception fire or return None
References: <87bni6awol.fsf@Equus.decebal.nl>
Message-ID: <6844153.DioSdhvfDQ@PointedEars.de>

Cecil Westerhof wrote:

> I have a function to fetch a message from a file:
>     def get_indexed_message(message_filename, index):
>         """
>         Get index message from a file, where 0 gets the first message
>         """
> 
>         return open(expanduser(message_filename),
>         'r').readlines()[index].rstrip()
> 
> What is more the Python way: let the exception fire like this code
> when index is to big, or catching it and returning None?

It is not only the Python way, it is the *correct* way to throw/_raise_ an 
exception if the language allows it.  Think of what ?exception? means: there 
is an *exceptional* (not normal) circumstance that causes execution of the 
function/method to stop.

Return values and status values to indicate such errors were used before 
exceptions, and are still used in languages that do not have exceptions.  
But return values only work if you can tell them apart from success values.  
You have only one error condition now.  If you have a different error 
condition in the future, you need a different return value for that to tell 
it apart from the first error condition.  

There comes a point where you are out of new return values for new error 
conditions such that you cannot tell them apart from success values anymore.  
And functions setting status values to refine return values are not 
reentrant.  But you can always throw a different type of exception or the 
same type of exception with a different message.

> I suppose working zero based is OK.

Yes, it is the common approach.

-- 
PointedEars

Twitter: @PointedEars2
Please do not cc me. / Bitte keine Kopien per E-Mail.


From Cecil at decebal.nl  Thu Apr 30 08:22:08 2015
From: Cecil at decebal.nl (Cecil Westerhof)
Date: Thu, 30 Apr 2015 14:22:08 +0200
Subject: Let exception fire or return None
References: <87bni6awol.fsf@Equus.decebal.nl>
 <mailman.122.1430386245.3680.python-list@python.org>
 <87h9rxx3g6.fsf@Equus.decebal.nl>
Message-ID: <878ud9x0un.fsf@Equus.decebal.nl>

Op Thursday 30 Apr 2015 13:26 CEST schreef Cecil Westerhof:

>> try:
>> [line] = itertools.islice(f, index, index+1)
>> except ValueError:
>> raise IndexError
>> return line.rstrip()
>
> In my case it is not important. (The biggest file I use has between
> 100 and 200 lines), but I publish it, so I should do my best to make
> it so lean as possible.

Implemented and pushed to:
    https://github.com/CecilWesterhof/PythonLibrary/blob/master/filebasedMessages.py

Did some other optimisation's also. The function get_random_message
now calls get_indexed_message. Saves memory (on the old
implementation) and is more DRY.

I also enhanced get_nr_of_messages:
    def get_nr_of_messages(message_filename):
        i = -1
        with open(expanduser(message_filename), 'r') as f:
            for i, l in enumerate(f):
                pass
        return i + 1

Or can that be done better?

-- 
Cecil Westerhof
Senior Software Engineer
LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/cecilwesterhof


From __peter__ at web.de  Thu Apr 30 08:28:49 2015
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Thu, 30 Apr 2015 14:28:49 +0200
Subject: Let exception fire or return None
References: <87bni6awol.fsf@Equus.decebal.nl>
 <mailman.122.1430386245.3680.python-list@python.org>
 <87h9rxx3g6.fsf@Equus.decebal.nl>
Message-ID: <mht762$tao$1@ger.gmane.org>

Cecil Westerhof wrote:

>> (2) you may want to take measures to limit memory usage, e. g.
>>
>> assert index >= 0
> 
> I put that in, but as first statement.

For the record, this was not a recommended check, but rather a way to 
communicate to the reader of my code that unlike yours it doesn't support 
negative indices.
 
>> try:
>>     [line] = itertools.islice(f, index, index+1)
>> except ValueError:
>>     raise IndexError
>> return line.rstrip()
> 
> In my case it is not important. (The biggest file I use has between
> 100 and 200 lines), but I publish it, so I should do my best to make
> it so lean as possible.

If you keep your 

return f.readlines()[index]

anyway you might allow for negative indices, and then

get_indexed_message(message_filename, -1)

fetches the last message in the file and

get_indexed_message(message_filename, slice(None, None))

fetches a list with all messages.



From antoon.pardon at rece.vub.ac.be  Thu Apr 30 08:30:34 2015
From: antoon.pardon at rece.vub.ac.be (Antoon Pardon)
Date: Thu, 30 Apr 2015 14:30:34 +0200
Subject: Let exception fire or return None
In-Reply-To: <87bni6awol.fsf@Equus.decebal.nl>
References: <87bni6awol.fsf@Equus.decebal.nl>
Message-ID: <5542206A.5060203@rece.vub.ac.be>

Op 30-04-15 om 09:43 schreef Cecil Westerhof:

> I have a function to fetch a message from a file:
>     def get_indexed_message(message_filename, index):
>         """
>         Get index message from a file, where 0 gets the first message
>         """
>
>         return open(expanduser(message_filename), 'r').readlines()[index].rstrip()
>
> What is more the Python way: let the exception fire like this code
> when index is to big, or catching it and returning None?
>
> I suppose working zero based is OK.

I think this is the wrong question. The right question i: What is the
most logical/consistent thing to do, within your project?

There are at least two ways to look at this.

1) Getting too large an index is very similar to getting an index with an empty
line and can be treated as such. In that case you might prefer to return an
empty line.

2) Getting too large an index indicates a problem that can't be handled here. In
that case you should let the exception propagate to where it can be handled.

2a) You view the IndexError as a good diagnostic, nothing more to do.
2b) You view the IndexError as an error specific to the implementation
and want an exception independent of your implementation: catch the
IndexError and raise one you specified yourself.

-- 
Antoon Pardon



From Cecil at decebal.nl  Thu Apr 30 08:31:20 2015
From: Cecil at decebal.nl (Cecil Westerhof)
Date: Thu, 30 Apr 2015 14:31:20 +0200
Subject: seek operation in python
References: <8b2bd328-08a6-4211-85c4-8d117d1aae1e@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <874mnxx0fb.fsf@Equus.decebal.nl>

Op Wednesday 29 Apr 2015 20:08 CEST schreef siva sankari R.:

> file=open("input","r")
> line=file.seek(7)
> print line
>
> The above code is supposed to print a line but it prints "none". I
> don't know where the mistake is. Help.!

You could use my module:
    https://github.com/CecilWesterhof/PythonLibrary/blob/master/filebasedMessages.py

Then use:
    from filebasedMessages import get_indexed_message

    get_indexed_message('input.cpp', 7)

-- 
Cecil Westerhof
Senior Software Engineer
LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/cecilwesterhof


From torriem at gmail.com  Thu Apr 30 10:03:09 2015
From: torriem at gmail.com (Michael Torrie)
Date: Thu, 30 Apr 2015 08:03:09 -0600
Subject: Python is not bad ;-)
In-Reply-To: <87mw1q9jqw.fsf@Equus.decebal.nl>
References: <87mw1q9jqw.fsf@Equus.decebal.nl>
Message-ID: <5542361D.2090908@gmail.com>

On 04/30/2015 01:07 AM, Cecil Westerhof wrote:
> When I do that the computer is freezed a few times. That is a little
> less nice. Does not happen with Clojure when it gets an out of memory.

A system freeze is probably due to thrashing by your operating system as
a process (in this case Python) uses more and more memory, causing
massive swapping.  Clojure's heap, being a JVM-based language, is based
on JVM settings, so it may be maxing out at just a couple of GB.
Whereas Python will happily max out your swap if your program demands
the memory.



From Cecil at decebal.nl  Thu Apr 30 10:50:04 2015
From: Cecil at decebal.nl (Cecil Westerhof)
Date: Thu, 30 Apr 2015 16:50:04 +0200
Subject: Not possible to hide local variables
References: <874mo0zoz2.fsf@Equus.decebal.nl> <mhqp33$dpj$2@reader1.panix.com>
 <554193F1.5050109@davea.name>
 <mailman.129.1430398447.3680.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <87wq0tvffn.fsf@Equus.decebal.nl>

Op Thursday 30 Apr 2015 14:53 CEST schreef Dennis Lee Bieber:

> On Wed, 29 Apr 2015 22:31:13 -0400, Dave Angel <davea at davea.name>
> declaimed the following:
>
>> On 04/29/2015 10:16 AM, Grant Edwards wrote:
>
>>
>>> raise ParameterError, 'Parameter has to be an int'
>>> if n < 0:
>>
>> Better:   if length < 0:          (since n is undefined)
>>
>>> raise ValueError, 'Parameter should be greater or equal 2'
>
> 	Given the text in the exception, shouldn't that be
>
> 	if length < 2:

Yeah: it already is. No points for punctuality on my side. :-(

-- 
Cecil Westerhof
Senior Software Engineer
LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/cecilwesterhof


From Cecil at decebal.nl  Thu Apr 30 10:53:43 2015
From: Cecil at decebal.nl (Cecil Westerhof)
Date: Thu, 30 Apr 2015 16:53:43 +0200
Subject: Let exception fire or return None
References: <87bni6awol.fsf@Equus.decebal.nl>
 <mailman.122.1430386245.3680.python-list@python.org>
 <87h9rxx3g6.fsf@Equus.decebal.nl>
 <mailman.127.1430396946.3680.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <87sibhvf9k.fsf@Equus.decebal.nl>

Op Thursday 30 Apr 2015 14:28 CEST schreef Peter Otten:

> Cecil Westerhof wrote:
>
>>> (2) you may want to take measures to limit memory usage, e. g.
>>>
>>> assert index >= 0
>>
>> I put that in, but as first statement.
>
> For the record, this was not a recommended check, but rather a way
> to communicate to the reader of my code that unlike yours it doesn't
> support negative indices.
>
>>> try:
>>> [line] = itertools.islice(f, index, index+1)
>>> except ValueError:
>>> raise IndexError
>>> return line.rstrip()
>>
>> In my case it is not important. (The biggest file I use has between
>> 100 and 200 lines), but I publish it, so I should do my best to
>> make it so lean as possible.
>
> If you keep your 
>
> return f.readlines()[index]
>
> anyway you might allow for negative indices, and then
>
> get_indexed_message(message_filename, -1)
>
> fetches the last message in the file and
>
> get_indexed_message(message_filename, slice(None, None))
>
> fetches a list with all messages.

It is even possible without keeping it. I can fetch the number of
messages and implement it myself without a possible high memory
overhead. Certainly something to think about.

-- 
Cecil Westerhof
Senior Software Engineer
LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/cecilwesterhof


From Cecil at decebal.nl  Thu Apr 30 11:59:07 2015
From: Cecil at decebal.nl (Cecil Westerhof)
Date: Thu, 30 Apr 2015 17:59:07 +0200
Subject: Is my implementation of happy number OK
Message-ID: <87oam5vc8k.fsf@Equus.decebal.nl>

I implemented happy_number function:
    _happy_set      = { '1' }
    _unhappy_set    = set()

    def happy_number(n):
        """
        Check if a number is a happy number
        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Happy_number
        """

        def create_current(n):
            current_array = sorted([value for value in str(n) if value != '0'])
            return (current_array, ''.join(current_array))

        global _happy_set
        global _unhappy_set

        current_run         = set()
        current_array, \
            current_string  = create_current(n)
        if current_string in _happy_set:
            return True
        if current_string in _unhappy_set:
            return False
        while True:
            current_run.add(current_string)
            current_array, \
                current_string = create_current(sum([int(value) ** 2
                                                     for value in current_string]))
            if current_string in current_run | _unhappy_set:
                _unhappy_set |= current_run
                return False
            if current_string in _happy_set:
                _happy_set |= current_run
                return True

Besides it need some documentation: is it a good implementation? Or
are there things I should do differently?

To decide for the values from 1 to 1E8 if it is happy or not, takes
280 seconds. Not to bad I think. Also not very good.

-- 
Cecil Westerhof
Senior Software Engineer
LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/cecilwesterhof


From Cecil at decebal.nl  Thu Apr 30 12:06:02 2015
From: Cecil at decebal.nl (Cecil Westerhof)
Date: Thu, 30 Apr 2015 18:06:02 +0200
Subject: l = range(int(1E9))
Message-ID: <87k2wtvbx1.fsf@Equus.decebal.nl>

If I execute:
    l = range(int(1E9)

The python process gobbles up all the memory and is killed. The
problem is that after this my swap is completely used, because other
processes have swapped to it. This make those programs more slowly. Is
there a way to circumvent Python claiming all the memory?

By the way: this is CPython 2.7.8.

-- 
Cecil Westerhof
Senior Software Engineer
LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/cecilwesterhof


From jtim.arnold at gmail.com  Thu Apr 30 12:07:25 2015
From: jtim.arnold at gmail.com (Tim)
Date: Thu, 30 Apr 2015 09:07:25 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: mixing set and list operations
Message-ID: <7f1dc7d2-2f88-4b1e-b3ae-bb67ae7e0028@googlegroups.com>

I noticed this today, using Python2.7 or 3.4, and wondered if it is implementation dependent:

You can use 'extend' to add set elements to a list and use 'update' to add list elements to a set.

>>> m = ['one', 'two']
>>> p = set(['three', 'four'])
>>> m.extend(p)
>>> m
['one', 'two', 'four', 'three']

>>> m = ['one', 'two']
>>> p = set(['three', 'four'])
>>> p.update(m)
>>> p
set(['four', 'three', 'two', 'one'])


Useful if you don't care about ordering. Not sure if it's dangerous.

thanks,
--Tim



From Cecil at decebal.nl  Thu Apr 30 12:11:44 2015
From: Cecil at decebal.nl (Cecil Westerhof)
Date: Thu, 30 Apr 2015 18:11:44 +0200
Subject: Python is not bad ;-)
References: <87mw1q9jqw.fsf@Equus.decebal.nl>
 <mailman.130.1430402596.3680.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <87d22lvbnj.fsf@Equus.decebal.nl>

Op Thursday 30 Apr 2015 16:03 CEST schreef Michael Torrie:

> On 04/30/2015 01:07 AM, Cecil Westerhof wrote:
>> When I do that the computer is freezed a few times. That is a
>> little less nice. Does not happen with Clojure when it gets an out
>> of memory.
>
> A system freeze is probably due to thrashing by your operating
> system as a process (in this case Python) uses more and more memory,
> causing massive swapping. Clojure's heap, being a JVM-based
> language, is based on JVM settings, so it may be maxing out at just
> a couple of GB. Whereas Python will happily max out your swap if
> your program demands the memory.

I just posted a message about that. This gets the problem also:
    l = range(int(1E9))

The problem is that after this other processes are swapped out and
have a bad performance. There is nothing that can be done about it?

So there is a positive point for working with the JVM. :-D

-- 
Cecil Westerhof
Senior Software Engineer
LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/cecilwesterhof


From carl at oddbird.net  Thu Apr 30 12:16:42 2015
From: carl at oddbird.net (Carl Meyer)
Date: Thu, 30 Apr 2015 10:16:42 -0600
Subject: mixing set and list operations
In-Reply-To: <7f1dc7d2-2f88-4b1e-b3ae-bb67ae7e0028@googlegroups.com>
References: <7f1dc7d2-2f88-4b1e-b3ae-bb67ae7e0028@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <5542556A.1050006@oddbird.net>

Hi Tim,

On 04/30/2015 10:07 AM, Tim wrote:
> I noticed this today, using Python2.7 or 3.4, and wondered if it is implementation dependent:
> 
> You can use 'extend' to add set elements to a list and use 'update' to add list elements to a set.
> 
>>>> m = ['one', 'two']
>>>> p = set(['three', 'four'])
>>>> m.extend(p)
>>>> m
> ['one', 'two', 'four', 'three']
> 
>>>> m = ['one', 'two']
>>>> p = set(['three', 'four'])
>>>> p.update(m)
>>>> p
> set(['four', 'three', 'two', 'one'])
> 
> 
> Useful if you don't care about ordering. Not sure if it's dangerous.

I don't think this is surprising, nor implementation dependent, nor
dangerous. Lists have an `extend()` method, sets have an `update()`
method. Both of these methods take any iterable as input, they don't
needlessly constrain the input to be of the same type as the base
object. That's the Pythonic way to do it; I'd be surprised if it didn't
work.

Carl

-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: signature.asc
Type: application/pgp-signature
Size: 819 bytes
Desc: OpenPGP digital signature
URL: <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/attachments/20150430/4c4a508a/attachment.sig>

From ian.g.kelly at gmail.com  Thu Apr 30 12:21:02 2015
From: ian.g.kelly at gmail.com (Ian Kelly)
Date: Thu, 30 Apr 2015 10:21:02 -0600
Subject: mixing set and list operations
In-Reply-To: <7f1dc7d2-2f88-4b1e-b3ae-bb67ae7e0028@googlegroups.com>
References: <7f1dc7d2-2f88-4b1e-b3ae-bb67ae7e0028@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <CALwzid=PVmgUuith565bhz02kBt46+D+=mNOHQTtkevGTiwPTA@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Apr 30, 2015 at 10:07 AM, Tim <jtim.arnold at gmail.com> wrote:
> I noticed this today, using Python2.7 or 3.4, and wondered if it is implementation dependent:
>
> You can use 'extend' to add set elements to a list and use 'update' to add list elements to a set.

It's not implementation dependent. Both methods are documented as
accepting arbitrary iterables. The same is also true for the other
foo_update set methods (and is generally true of built-ins). It is
*not* true for the operator versions of the set methods, however (|,
-, &, ^).

It's also true for dict.update, except that in this case if an
iterable is passed instead of a map, then each element of the iterable
must be a 2-element iterable.


From invalid at invalid.invalid  Thu Apr 30 12:33:58 2015
From: invalid at invalid.invalid (Grant Edwards)
Date: Thu, 30 Apr 2015 16:33:58 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: l = range(int(1E9))
References: <87k2wtvbx1.fsf@Equus.decebal.nl>
Message-ID: <mhtlhm$qan$1@reader1.panix.com>

On 2015-04-30, Cecil Westerhof <Cecil at decebal.nl> wrote:
> If I execute:
>     l = range(int(1E9)
>
> The python process gobbles up all the memory and is killed. The
> problem is that after this my swap is completely used, because other
> processes have swapped to it. This make those programs more slowly.
> Is there a way to circumvent Python claiming all the memory?

I presume "don't do that" has already occured to you?

You can always use ulimit to limit the memory allowed for the process
running Python.

-- 
Grant Edwards               grant.b.edwards        Yow! Should I get locked
                                  at               in the PRINCICAL'S
                              gmail.com            OFFICE today -- or have
                                                   a VASECTOMY??


From jon+usenet at unequivocal.co.uk  Thu Apr 30 12:55:55 2015
From: jon+usenet at unequivocal.co.uk (Jon Ribbens)
Date: Thu, 30 Apr 2015 16:55:55 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: l = range(int(1E9))
References: <87k2wtvbx1.fsf@Equus.decebal.nl>
Message-ID: <slrnmk4nmp.apd.jon+usenet@frosty.unequivocal.co.uk>

On 2015-04-30, Cecil Westerhof <Cecil at decebal.nl> wrote:
> If I execute:
>     l = range(int(1E9)
>
> The python process gobbles up all the memory and is killed. The
> problem is that after this my swap is completely used, because other
> processes have swapped to it. This make those programs more slowly. Is
> there a way to circumvent Python claiming all the memory?
>
> By the way: this is CPython 2.7.8.

It's your operating system's job to handle processes.

If you use xrange() instead of range() then you will get an iterator
which will return each of the numbers in turn without any need to
create an enormous list of all of them.


From tjreedy at udel.edu  Thu Apr 30 13:02:47 2015
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Thu, 30 Apr 2015 13:02:47 -0400
Subject: l = range(int(1E9))
In-Reply-To: <87k2wtvbx1.fsf@Equus.decebal.nl>
References: <87k2wtvbx1.fsf@Equus.decebal.nl>
Message-ID: <mhtn7q$ul2$1@ger.gmane.org>

On 4/30/2015 12:06 PM, Cecil Westerhof wrote:
> If I execute:
>      l = range(int(1E9)

you get a SyntaxError

> The python process gobbles up all the memory and is killed. The
> problem is that after this my swap is completely used, because other
> processes have swapped to it. This make those programs more slowly. Is
> there a way to circumvent Python claiming all the memory?

For this specific case, use xrange or 3.x range

> By the way: this is CPython 2.7.8.



-- 
Terry Jan Reedy



From ben+python at benfinney.id.au  Thu Apr 30 13:04:30 2015
From: ben+python at benfinney.id.au (Ben Finney)
Date: Fri, 01 May 2015 03:04:30 +1000
Subject: mixing set and list operations
References: <7f1dc7d2-2f88-4b1e-b3ae-bb67ae7e0028@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <85a8xpim3l.fsf@benfinney.id.au>

Tim <jtim.arnold at gmail.com> writes:

> You can use 'extend' to add set elements to a list and use 'update' to
> add list elements to a set.

And you can use both of those methods to add items from a file::

    >>> foo = ['one', 'two']
    >>> bar = open('/usr/share/common-licenses/GPL-3')
    >>> foo.extend(bar)
    >>> foo
    ['one', 'two', '                    GNU GENERAL PUBLIC LICENSE\n',
     ' Version 3, 29 June 2007\n', '\n',
     ?

You have merely discovered that ?list.extend? and ?set.update? accept an
iterable <URL:https://wiki.python.org/moin/Iterator>.

Sets and lists and files and many other collections are all iterables,
so any of them can be passed to a function that accepts an iterable.

-- 
 \          ?It's dangerous to be right when the government is wrong.? |
  `\                                   ?Francois Marie Arouet Voltaire |
_o__)                                                                  |
Ben Finney



From jon+usenet at unequivocal.co.uk  Thu Apr 30 13:04:44 2015
From: jon+usenet at unequivocal.co.uk (Jon Ribbens)
Date: Thu, 30 Apr 2015 17:04:44 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Is my implementation of happy number OK
References: <87oam5vc8k.fsf@Equus.decebal.nl>
Message-ID: <slrnmk4o7a.apd.jon+usenet@frosty.unequivocal.co.uk>

On 2015-04-30, Cecil Westerhof <Cecil at decebal.nl> wrote:
> Besides it need some documentation: is it a good implementation? Or
> are there things I should do differently?

Here's an alternative implementation which is a bit neater:

    def find_happy(maximum):
	"""Return set of happy numbers between 1 and `maximum`"""
	happy = {1}
	unhappy = set()
	for num in range(maximum + 1):
	    sequence = set()
	    while num not in sequence and num not in unhappy:
		sequence.add(num)
		if num in happy:
		    happy |= sequence
		    break
		nextnum = 0
		while num:
		    num, digit = divmod(num, 10)
		    nextnum += digit * digit
		num = nextnum
	    else:
		unhappy |= sequence
	return happy



From gherron at digipen.edu  Thu Apr 30 13:05:44 2015
From: gherron at digipen.edu (Gary Herron)
Date: Thu, 30 Apr 2015 10:05:44 -0700
Subject: l = range(int(1E9))
In-Reply-To: <87k2wtvbx1.fsf@Equus.decebal.nl>
References: <87k2wtvbx1.fsf@Equus.decebal.nl>
Message-ID: <554260E8.20306@digipen.edu>

On 04/30/2015 09:06 AM, Cecil Westerhof wrote:
> If I execute:
>      l = range(int(1E9)
>
> The python process gobbles up all the memory and is killed. The
> problem is that after this my swap is completely used, because other
> processes have swapped to it. This make those programs more slowly. Is
> there a way to circumvent Python claiming all the memory?
>
> By the way: this is CPython 2.7.8.

Well, that could be considered the problem.   In Python3, the range 
function returns a range object which takes up almost no resources, 
while in Python2 it produces a list.  Both can be iterated over, so they 
produce the same result in the most common use case (i.e., iteration), 
but the Python3 version generates the elements only as needed.

If you really *wanted* the list (but WHY?) in Python3, do 
list(range(...)), but then you get what you deserve. :-)

Python3:

 >>> l = range(int(1E9))
 >>> l
range(0, 1000000000)


-- 
Dr. Gary Herron
Department of Computer Science
DigiPen Institute of Technology
(425) 895-4418



From rgaddi at technologyhighland.invalid  Thu Apr 30 13:12:16 2015
From: rgaddi at technologyhighland.invalid (Rob Gaddi)
Date: Thu, 30 Apr 2015 17:12:16 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: l = range(int(1E9))
References: <87k2wtvbx1.fsf@Equus.decebal.nl>
 <mailman.135.1430413555.3680.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <mhtnpg$fsf$1@dont-email.me>

On Thu, 30 Apr 2015 10:05:44 -0700, Gary Herron wrote:

> On 04/30/2015 09:06 AM, Cecil Westerhof wrote:
>> If I execute:
>>      l = range(int(1E9)
>>
>> The python process gobbles up all the memory and is killed. The problem
>> is that after this my swap is completely used, because other processes
>> have swapped to it. This make those programs more slowly. Is there a
>> way to circumvent Python claiming all the memory?
>>
>> By the way: this is CPython 2.7.8.
> 
> Well, that could be considered the problem.   In Python3, the range
> function returns a range object which takes up almost no resources,
> while in Python2 it produces a list.  Both can be iterated over, so they
> produce the same result in the most common use case (i.e., iteration),
> but the Python3 version generates the elements only as needed.
> 
> If you really *wanted* the list (but WHY?) in Python3, do
> list(range(...)), but then you get what you deserve. :-)
> 
> Python3:
> 
>  >>> l = range(int(1E9))
>  >>> l
> range(0, 1000000000)

This also leads to a unrelated question, Cecil.  Given that you really 
are just starting to get your Python feet under you, why are you using 
Python2?  Python3 is the standard now, Python2 is really just given 
legacy support.  I'd understand if you were trying to maintain an old 
codebase with lots of legacy code that was having "problematic" 
migrations, but with the opportunity to start fresh?  Start fresh.  
You'll be happier for it.


-- 
Rob Gaddi, Highland Technology -- www.highlandtechnology.com
Email address domain is currently out of order.  See above to fix.


From ben+python at benfinney.id.au  Thu Apr 30 13:20:10 2015
From: ben+python at benfinney.id.au (Ben Finney)
Date: Fri, 01 May 2015 03:20:10 +1000
Subject: l = range(int(1E9))
References: <87k2wtvbx1.fsf@Equus.decebal.nl>
 <slrnmk4nmp.apd.jon+usenet@frosty.unequivocal.co.uk>
Message-ID: <85618dildh.fsf@benfinney.id.au>

Jon Ribbens <jon+usenet at unequivocal.co.uk> writes:

> On 2015-04-30, Cecil Westerhof <Cecil at decebal.nl> wrote:
> > If I execute:
> >     l = range(int(1E9)
> >
> > The python process gobbles up all the memory and is killed. [?] Is
> > there a way to circumvent Python claiming all the memory?

You seem to be asking for a way to stop a program doing exactly what
it's written to do. I don't know what kind of answer you expect.

> It's your operating system's job to handle processes.

Indeed. In this case, the program is written to gobble up memory, and
the operating system kills it. To ?circumvent? that behaviour surely
reveals the problem: that the operating system isn't handling processes
very well.

> > By the way: this is CPython 2.7.8.
>
> If you use xrange() instead of range() then you will get an iterator
> which will return each of the numbers in turn without any need to
> create an enormous list of all of them.

If you use Python 3 instead of the obsolescent Python 2, the ?range?
callable has this sensible behaviour by default.

-- 
 \       ?Corporation, n. An ingenious device for obtaining individual |
  `\       profit without individual responsibility.? ?Ambrose Bierce, |
_o__)                                   _The Devil's Dictionary_, 1906 |
Ben Finney



From Cecil at decebal.nl  Thu Apr 30 13:26:38 2015
From: Cecil at decebal.nl (Cecil Westerhof)
Date: Thu, 30 Apr 2015 19:26:38 +0200
Subject: l = range(int(1E9))
References: <87k2wtvbx1.fsf@Equus.decebal.nl> <mhtlhm$qan$1@reader1.panix.com>
Message-ID: <878ud9v86p.fsf@Equus.decebal.nl>

Op Thursday 30 Apr 2015 18:33 CEST schreef Grant Edwards:

> On 2015-04-30, Cecil Westerhof <Cecil at decebal.nl> wrote:
>> If I execute:
>> l = range(int(1E9)
>>
>> The python process gobbles up all the memory and is killed. The
>> problem is that after this my swap is completely used, because
>> other processes have swapped to it. This make those programs more
>> slowly. Is there a way to circumvent Python claiming all the
>> memory?
>
> I presume "don't do that" has already occured to you?

Well, it is just playing with the possibilities/limits of Python.
Better getting the problem now, then when I can not afford to lose
time. ;-)


> You can always use ulimit to limit the memory allowed for the
> process running Python.

That works, yes. Now I get a MemoryError and the other processes are
left alone. Now determining what are the best values.

-- 
Cecil Westerhof
Senior Software Engineer
LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/cecilwesterhof


From Cecil at decebal.nl  Thu Apr 30 13:28:28 2015
From: Cecil at decebal.nl (Cecil Westerhof)
Date: Thu, 30 Apr 2015 19:28:28 +0200
Subject: l = range(int(1E9))
References: <87k2wtvbx1.fsf@Equus.decebal.nl>
 <slrnmk4nmp.apd.jon+usenet@frosty.unequivocal.co.uk>
Message-ID: <874mnxv83n.fsf@Equus.decebal.nl>

Op Thursday 30 Apr 2015 18:55 CEST schreef Jon Ribbens:

> On 2015-04-30, Cecil Westerhof <Cecil at decebal.nl> wrote:
>> If I execute:
>> l = range(int(1E9)
>>
>> The python process gobbles up all the memory and is killed. The
>> problem is that after this my swap is completely used, because
>> other processes have swapped to it. This make those programs more
>> slowly. Is there a way to circumvent Python claiming all the
>> memory?
>>
>> By the way: this is CPython 2.7.8.
>
> It's your operating system's job to handle processes.
>
> If you use xrange() instead of range() then you will get an iterator
> which will return each of the numbers in turn without any need to
> create an enormous list of all of them.

I did it on purpose. Wanted to now the limits. Just need to use ulimit
to get a MemoryError.

-- 
Cecil Westerhof
Senior Software Engineer
LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/cecilwesterhof


From ian.g.kelly at gmail.com  Thu Apr 30 13:37:10 2015
From: ian.g.kelly at gmail.com (Ian Kelly)
Date: Thu, 30 Apr 2015 11:37:10 -0600
Subject: Is my implementation of happy number OK
In-Reply-To: <87oam5vc8k.fsf@Equus.decebal.nl>
References: <87oam5vc8k.fsf@Equus.decebal.nl>
Message-ID: <CALwzidmzRidBrkUWC9B1ePFfpHvTYjHur_HLqk+0a9D=CyjN-g@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Apr 30, 2015 at 9:59 AM, Cecil Westerhof <Cecil at decebal.nl> wrote:
> I implemented happy_number function:
>     _happy_set      = { '1' }
>     _unhappy_set    = set()
>
>     def happy_number(n):
>         """
>         Check if a number is a happy number
>         https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Happy_number
>         """
>
>         def create_current(n):
>             current_array = sorted([value for value in str(n) if value != '0'])

A generator expression in place of the list comprehension would avoid
creating an intermediate list, which would save memory on extremely
large numbers. Not sure without testing how it would compare on small
numbers. For reference, since size here refers to number of digits,
1E8 would be considered tiny.

Also for large numbers, there might be a smarter data structure to use
than just sorting the digits, which is O(n log n). Simplest would
probably just be a 9-element tuple containing the count of each
non-zero digit, which would be only O(n) to build.

>             return (current_array, ''.join(current_array))

You don't seem to be actually using current_array for anything, so why
not just return the string?

>         global _happy_set
>         global _unhappy_set
>
>         current_run         = set()
>         current_array, \
>             current_string  = create_current(n)

As a stylistic rule, avoid line continuations using \. Prefer using
unclosed parentheses for line continuations, e.g. the above could be
written as:

    (current_array,
     current_string) = create_current(n)

But really, the above is short enough it could just be written on a single line.

Also, I feel like the prefix "current_" is used so much here that it
loses its meaning. All these variable names would be better without
it.

>         if current_string in _happy_set:
>             return True
>         if current_string in _unhappy_set:
>             return False

Instead of two sets, consider using a single _happy_dict with values
True for happy and False for unhappy. Then the above becomes:

    if current_string in _happy_dict:
        return _happy_dict[current_string]

>         while True:
>             current_run.add(current_string)
>             current_array, \
>                 current_string = create_current(sum([int(value) ** 2
>                                                      for value in current_string]))

Since there are only 9 values that get squared, you could precompute
the squares to avoid squaring them over and over again.

>             if current_string in current_run | _unhappy_set:

In case the sets get large it might be better to avoid creating the
union and just do:

    if current_string in current_run or current_string in _unhappy_set:

>                 _unhappy_set |= current_run
>                 return False
>             if current_string in _happy_set:
>                 _happy_set |= current_run
>                 return True


From ben+python at benfinney.id.au  Thu Apr 30 13:41:29 2015
From: ben+python at benfinney.id.au (Ben Finney)
Date: Fri, 01 May 2015 03:41:29 +1000
Subject: l = range(int(1E9))
References: <87k2wtvbx1.fsf@Equus.decebal.nl> <mhtlhm$qan$1@reader1.panix.com>
 <878ud9v86p.fsf@Equus.decebal.nl>
Message-ID: <85oam5h5ti.fsf@benfinney.id.au>

Cecil Westerhof <Cecil at decebal.nl> writes:

> That works, yes. Now I get a MemoryError and the other processes are
> left alone. Now determining what are the best values.

I would strongly recommend that ?best values? includes ?run Python
version >= 3?.

One of the many problems you avoid by leaving Python 2 behind is that
many functions which used to return entire collections, now return lazy
evaluators (such as generators or views) which will not consume memory
the way you're describing.

Please try to learn Python using only the currently-developed Python 3.

-- 
 \     ?Listen: we are here on Earth to fart around. Don't let anybody |
  `\                  tell you otherwise.? ?_Timequake_, Kurt Vonnegut |
_o__)                                                                  |
Ben Finney



From jtim.arnold at gmail.com  Thu Apr 30 13:47:00 2015
From: jtim.arnold at gmail.com (Tim)
Date: Thu, 30 Apr 2015 10:47:00 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: mixing set and list operations
In-Reply-To: <mailman.134.1430413495.3680.python-list@python.org>
References: <7f1dc7d2-2f88-4b1e-b3ae-bb67ae7e0028@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.134.1430413495.3680.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <efe21e2e-f52a-4bd9-8201-68a6e64c23a1@googlegroups.com>

On Thursday, April 30, 2015 at 1:05:05 PM UTC-4, Ben Finney wrote:
> Tim writes:
> > You can use 'extend' to add set elements to a list and use 'update' to
> > add list elements to a set.
> 
> And you can use both of those methods to add items from a file::
> 
>     >>> foo = ['one', 'two']
>     >>> bar = open('/usr/share/common-licenses/GPL-3')
>     >>> foo.extend(bar)
>     >>> foo
>     ['one', 'two', '                    GNU GENERAL PUBLIC LICENSE\n',
>      ' Version 3, 29 June 2007\n', '\n',
>      ...
> 
> You have merely discovered that 'list.extend' and 'set.update' accept an
> iterable <URL:https://wiki.python.org/moin/Iterator>.
> 
> Sets and lists and files and many other collections are all iterables,
> so any of them can be passed to a function that accepts an iterable.

Thanks for the answers, that makes perfect sense. 
It sure is useful too.
--Tim


From auriocus at gmx.de  Thu Apr 30 13:59:10 2015
From: auriocus at gmx.de (Christian Gollwitzer)
Date: Thu, 30 Apr 2015 19:59:10 +0200
Subject: Python is not bad ;-)
In-Reply-To: <87d22lvbnj.fsf@Equus.decebal.nl>
References: <87mw1q9jqw.fsf@Equus.decebal.nl>	<mailman.130.1430402596.3680.python-list@python.org>
 <87d22lvbnj.fsf@Equus.decebal.nl>
Message-ID: <mhtqfg$gcj$1@dont-email.me>

Am 30.04.15 um 18:11 schrieb Cecil Westerhof:
> Op Thursday 30 Apr 2015 16:03 CEST schreef Michael Torrie:
>
>> On 04/30/2015 01:07 AM, Cecil Westerhof wrote:
>>> When I do that the computer is freezed a few times. That is a
>>> little less nice. Does not happen with Clojure when it gets an out
>>> of memory.
>>
>> A system freeze is probably due to thrashing by your operating
>> system as a process (in this case Python) uses more and more memory,
>> causing massive swapping. Clojure's heap, being a JVM-based
>> language, is based on JVM settings, so it may be maxing out at just
>> a couple of GB. Whereas Python will happily max out your swap if
>> your program demands the memory.
>
> I just posted a message about that. This gets the problem also:
>      l = range(int(1E9))
>
> The problem is that after this other processes are swapped out and
> have a bad performance. There is nothing that can be done about it?
>
> So there is a positive point for working with the JVM. :-D
>

No, you understood this the wrong way. The JVM has a limit on the max 
memory size on startup, which you can give by the -Xmx option on the 
Oracle machine, so for instance

java -Xmx512M -jar myjar.jar

limits the memory that your program may consume to 512 megs, until the 
JVM kills it. The standard limit is usually fairly low and probably 
below your real memory, so the java program does not have the chance to 
max out your memory and make your computer swap.

CPython, au contraire, uses all memory it can get from the OS. The OS 
kills it if it uses too much. On Linux, you can set this limit yourself 
using ulimit. The analogue to the java call would therefore be something 
like

ulimit -m 512M
python mypython.py

If you set the ulimit to something smaller than your physical memory 
size, you also cause the program to be killed before it can use up all 
the memory and introduce swapping. For a fair comparison, you should set 
both limits to the same value and see how far you can get.

	Christian


From gvanem at yahoo.no  Thu Apr 30 14:23:31 2015
From: gvanem at yahoo.no (Gisle Vanem)
Date: Thu, 30 Apr 2015 20:23:31 +0200
Subject: l = range(int(1E9))
In-Reply-To: <87k2wtvbx1.fsf@Equus.decebal.nl>
References: <87k2wtvbx1.fsf@Equus.decebal.nl>
Message-ID: <55427323.8040801@yahoo.no>

Cecil Westerhof wrote:

> If I execute:
>      l = range(int(1E9)
>
> The python process gobbles up all the memory and is killed. The
> problem is that after this my swap is completely used, because other
> processes have swapped to it. This make those programs more slowly. Is
> there a way to circumvent Python claiming all the memory?
>
> By the way: this is CPython 2.7.8.

On what OS? If I try something similar on Win-8.1
and CPython 2.7.5 (32-bit):

  python -c "for i in range(int(1E9)): pass"
   Traceback (most recent call last):
     File "<string>", line 1, in <module>
   MemoryError


--gv


From Cecil at decebal.nl  Thu Apr 30 14:44:48 2015
From: Cecil at decebal.nl (Cecil Westerhof)
Date: Thu, 30 Apr 2015 20:44:48 +0200
Subject: l = range(int(1E9))
References: <87k2wtvbx1.fsf@Equus.decebal.nl> <mhtlhm$qan$1@reader1.panix.com>
 <878ud9v86p.fsf@Equus.decebal.nl>
 <mailman.138.1430415702.3680.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <87zj5ptpzz.fsf@Equus.decebal.nl>

Op Thursday 30 Apr 2015 19:41 CEST schreef Ben Finney:

> Cecil Westerhof <Cecil at decebal.nl> writes:
>
>> That works, yes. Now I get a MemoryError and the other processes
>> are left alone. Now determining what are the best values.
>
> I would strongly recommend that ?best values? includes ?run Python
> version >= 3?.
>
> One of the many problems you avoid by leaving Python 2 behind is
> that many functions which used to return entire collections, now
> return lazy evaluators (such as generators or views) which will not
> consume memory the way you're describing.
>
> Please try to learn Python using only the currently-developed Python
> 3.

The problem with that is that in my neighbourhood 2 is still mostly
exclusively used. I want to learn also 3, but 2 has more priority.

The modules I publish on GitHub work with both. :-)

-- 
Cecil Westerhof
Senior Software Engineer
LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/cecilwesterhof


From alister.nospam.ware at ntlworld.com  Thu Apr 30 14:48:10 2015
From: alister.nospam.ware at ntlworld.com (alister)
Date: Thu, 30 Apr 2015 18:48:10 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: l = range(int(1E9))
References: <87k2wtvbx1.fsf@Equus.decebal.nl>
 <mailman.139.1430418355.3680.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <mhttda$pf$1@speranza.aioe.org>

On Thu, 30 Apr 2015 20:23:31 +0200, Gisle Vanem wrote:

> Cecil Westerhof wrote:
> 
>> If I execute:
>>      l = range(int(1E9)
>>
>> The python process gobbles up all the memory and is killed. The problem
>> is that after this my swap is completely used, because other processes
>> have swapped to it. This make those programs more slowly. Is there a
>> way to circumvent Python claiming all the memory?
>>
>> By the way: this is CPython 2.7.8.
> 
> On what OS? If I try something similar on Win-8.1 and CPython 2.7.5
> (32-bit):
> 
>   python -c "for i in range(int(1E9)): pass"
>    Traceback (most recent call last):
>      File "<string>", line 1, in <module>
>    MemoryError
> 
> 
> --gv

also MemoryError on Fedora 21 32 bit




-- 
I am a traffic light, and Alan Ginzberg kidnapped my laundry in 1927!


From Cecil at decebal.nl  Thu Apr 30 14:50:11 2015
From: Cecil at decebal.nl (Cecil Westerhof)
Date: Thu, 30 Apr 2015 20:50:11 +0200
Subject: l = range(int(1E9))
References: <87k2wtvbx1.fsf@Equus.decebal.nl>
 <mailman.135.1430413555.3680.python-list@python.org>
 <mhtnpg$fsf$1@dont-email.me>
Message-ID: <87mw1ptpr0.fsf@Equus.decebal.nl>

Op Thursday 30 Apr 2015 19:12 CEST schreef Rob Gaddi:

> This also leads to a unrelated question, Cecil. Given that you
> really are just starting to get your Python feet under you, why are
> you using Python2? Python3 is the standard now, Python2 is really
> just given legacy support. I'd understand if you were trying to
> maintain an old codebase with lots of legacy code that was having
> "problematic" migrations, but with the opportunity to start fresh?
> Start fresh. You'll be happier for it.

I try to write code that works with both. Wen looking around in the
Netherlands there are more job opportunities with Python 2 as with
Python 3. So at the moment I find Python 2 more important, without
forgetting Python 3.

-- 
Cecil Westerhof
Senior Software Engineer
LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/cecilwesterhof


From davea at davea.name  Thu Apr 30 14:53:10 2015
From: davea at davea.name (Dave Angel)
Date: Thu, 30 Apr 2015 14:53:10 -0400
Subject: Is my implementation of happy number OK
In-Reply-To: <87oam5vc8k.fsf@Equus.decebal.nl>
References: <87oam5vc8k.fsf@Equus.decebal.nl>
Message-ID: <55427A16.8010004@davea.name>

On 04/30/2015 11:59 AM, Cecil Westerhof wrote:
> I implemented happy_number function:
>      _happy_set      = { '1' }
>      _unhappy_set    = set()
>
>      def happy_number(n):
>          """
>          Check if a number is a happy number
>          https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Happy_number
>          """
>
>          def create_current(n):
>              current_array = sorted([value for value in str(n) if value != '0'])
>              return (current_array, ''.join(current_array))
>
>          global _happy_set
>          global _unhappy_set
>
>          current_run         = set()
>          current_array, \
>              current_string  = create_current(n)
>          if current_string in _happy_set:
>              return True
>          if current_string in _unhappy_set:
>              return False
>          while True:
>              current_run.add(current_string)
>              current_array, \
>                  current_string = create_current(sum([int(value) ** 2
>                                                       for value in current_string]))
>              if current_string in current_run | _unhappy_set:
>                  _unhappy_set |= current_run
>                  return False
>              if current_string in _happy_set:
>                  _happy_set |= current_run
>                  return True
>
> Besides it need some documentation: is it a good implementation? Or
> are there things I should do differently?
>
> To decide for the values from 1 to 1E8 if it is happy or not, takes
> 280 seconds. Not to bad I think. Also not very good.
>

First comment, if you're coding a complex implementation like this, take 
the time to do a brute force one as well. Then you can compare the 
results between brute force and your optimized one for all possible 
values, and make sure you haven't introduced any bugs.

My brute force looks like:

#Dave's version, brute force

def davea1(n):
     cache = []
     anum = str(n)
     newnum = 0
     while newnum != 1:
         newnum = sum(int(i)*int(i) for i in anum)
         anum = str(newnum)
         if newnum in cache:
             return False     #not a happy number
         cache.append(newnum)
     return True  #found a happy number

I then tried an optimized one, and my speed is only about 10% faster 
than yours for 1e7 loops.  I show it anyway, since I think it reads a 
little better.  And readability counts much more than a little performance.

  #optimizations:
#   cached happy and unhappy sets
#   sort the digits, and compare only the sorted values, without zeroes
davea_happy = {1}
davea_unhappy = set()

SQUARES = dict((str(i), i*i) for i in xrange(10))

def davea2(n):
     global davea_happy, davea_unhappy
     cache = set()
     newnum = n
     while newnum != 1:
         newnum = int("".join(sorted(str(newnum))))
         if newnum in davea_unhappy or newnum in cache:
             davea_unhappy |= cache
             return False     #not a happy number
         if newnum in davea_happy:
             break
         cache.add(newnum)
         newnum = sum(SQUARES[ch] for ch in str(newnum))
     davea_happy |= cache
     return True  #found a happy number

Finally, I did some testing on Jon Ribben's version.  His was 
substantially faster for smaller sets, and about the same for 10*7.  So 
it's likely it'll be slower than yours and mine for 10**8.  But the real 
reason I didn't like it was it produced a much larger set of 
happy_numbers, which could clog memory a lot sooner.  For 10**7 items, I 
had 3250 happy members, and 19630 unhappy.  And Jon had 1418854 happy 
members.

-- 
DaveA


From Cecil at decebal.nl  Thu Apr 30 14:55:10 2015
From: Cecil at decebal.nl (Cecil Westerhof)
Date: Thu, 30 Apr 2015 20:55:10 +0200
Subject: Lucky numbers in Python
References: <87lhhabxod.fsf@Equus.decebal.nl>
Message-ID: <87fv7htpip.fsf@Equus.decebal.nl>

Because I want the code to work with Python 3 also, the code is now:
    def lucky_numbers(n):
        """
        Lucky numbers from 1 up-to n
        http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lucky_number
        """

        if n < 3:
            return [1]
        sieve = list(range(1, n + 1, 2))
        sieve_index = 1
        while True:
            sieve_len   = len(sieve)
            if (sieve_index + 1) > sieve_len:
                break
            skip_count  = sieve[sieve_index]
            if sieve_len < skip_count:
                break
            del sieve[skip_count - 1 : : skip_count]
            sieve_index += 1
        return sieve

It looks like the list in:
        sieve = list(range(1, n + 1, 2))

does not have much influence in Python 2. So I was thinking of leaving
the code like it is. Or is it better to check and do the list only
with Python 3?

-- 
Cecil Westerhof
Senior Software Engineer
LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/cecilwesterhof


From davea at davea.name  Thu Apr 30 14:59:42 2015
From: davea at davea.name (Dave Angel)
Date: Thu, 30 Apr 2015 14:59:42 -0400
Subject: l = range(int(1E9))
In-Reply-To: <mhttda$pf$1@speranza.aioe.org>
References: <87k2wtvbx1.fsf@Equus.decebal.nl>
 <mailman.139.1430418355.3680.python-list@python.org>
 <mhttda$pf$1@speranza.aioe.org>
Message-ID: <55427B9E.4070404@davea.name>

On 04/30/2015 02:48 PM, alister wrote:
> On Thu, 30 Apr 2015 20:23:31 +0200, Gisle Vanem wrote:
>
>> Cecil Westerhof wrote:
>>
>>> If I execute:
>>>       l = range(int(1E9)
>>>
>>> The python process gobbles up all the memory and is killed. The problem
>>> is that after this my swap is completely used, because other processes
>>> have swapped to it. This make those programs more slowly. Is there a
>>> way to circumvent Python claiming all the memory?
>>>
>>> By the way: this is CPython 2.7.8.
>>
>> On what OS? If I try something similar on Win-8.1 and CPython 2.7.5
>> (32-bit):
>>
>>    python -c "for i in range(int(1E9)): pass"
>>     Traceback (most recent call last):
>>       File "<string>", line 1, in <module>
>>     MemoryError
>>
>>
>> --gv
>
> also MemoryError on Fedora 21 32 bit
>

That's presumably because you end up running out of address space before 
you run out of swap space.  On a 64 bit system the reverse will be true, 
unless you have a really *really* large swap file

ulimit is your friend if you've got a program that wants to gobble up 
all of swap space.

-- 
DaveA


From Cecil at decebal.nl  Thu Apr 30 15:05:59 2015
From: Cecil at decebal.nl (Cecil Westerhof)
Date: Thu, 30 Apr 2015 21:05:59 +0200
Subject: Is my implementation of happy number OK
References: <87oam5vc8k.fsf@Equus.decebal.nl>
 <mailman.137.1430415473.3680.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <87bni5tp0o.fsf@Equus.decebal.nl>

Op Thursday 30 Apr 2015 19:37 CEST schreef Ian Kelly:

Most I still have to digest. ;-)

> On Thu, Apr 30, 2015 at 9:59 AM, Cecil Westerhof <Cecil at decebal.nl> wrote:
>> return (current_array, ''.join(current_array))
>
> You don't seem to be actually using current_array for anything, so
> why not just return the string?

My implementation was not finished. I had intended to make it:
        current_array, \
            current_string = create_current(sum([value ** 2
                                                 for value in current_array]))

But it does not make it significantly faster, so yes, I am going to
return only the string.

-- 
Cecil Westerhof
Senior Software Engineer
LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/cecilwesterhof


From davea at davea.name  Thu Apr 30 15:28:56 2015
From: davea at davea.name (Dave Angel)
Date: Thu, 30 Apr 2015 15:28:56 -0400
Subject: Lucky numbers in Python
In-Reply-To: <87fv7htpip.fsf@Equus.decebal.nl>
References: <87lhhabxod.fsf@Equus.decebal.nl> <87fv7htpip.fsf@Equus.decebal.nl>
Message-ID: <55428278.8030808@davea.name>

On 04/30/2015 02:55 PM, Cecil Westerhof wrote:
> Because I want the code to work with Python 3 also, the code is now:
>      def lucky_numbers(n):
>          """
>          Lucky numbers from 1 up-to n
>          http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lucky_number
>          """
>
>          if n < 3:
>              return [1]
>          sieve = list(range(1, n + 1, 2))
>          sieve_index = 1
>          while True:
>              sieve_len   = len(sieve)
>              if (sieve_index + 1) > sieve_len:
>                  break
>              skip_count  = sieve[sieve_index]
>              if sieve_len < skip_count:
>                  break
>              del sieve[skip_count - 1 : : skip_count]
>              sieve_index += 1
>          return sieve
>
> It looks like the list in:
>          sieve = list(range(1, n + 1, 2))
>
> does not have much influence in Python 2. So I was thinking of leaving
> the code like it is. Or is it better to check and do the list only
> with Python 3?
>

I'd do something like this at top of the module:

try:
     range = xrange
except NameError as ex:
     pass

then use range as it is defined in Python3.

if that makes you nervous, then define irange = xrange, and if it gets a 
NameError exception, irange = range


-- 
DaveA


From orgnut at yahoo.com  Thu Apr 30 15:38:26 2015
From: orgnut at yahoo.com (Larry Hudson)
Date: Thu, 30 Apr 2015 12:38:26 -0700
Subject: seek operation in python
In-Reply-To: <87y4lavy4q.fsf@Equus.decebal.nl>
References: <8b2bd328-08a6-4211-85c4-8d117d1aae1e@googlegroups.com>	<mailman.107.1430354001.3680.python-list@python.org>	<87vbge9lm6.fsf@Equus.decebal.nl>	<mailman.118.1430379207.3680.python-list@python.org>
 <87y4lavy4q.fsf@Equus.decebal.nl>
Message-ID: <CJydnT_05MIuGd_InZ2dnUU7-UGdnZ2d@giganews.com>

On 04/30/2015 01:06 AM, Cecil Westerhof wrote:
[snip]

> I wrote a module where I have:
>      def get_indexed_message(message_filename, index):
>          """
>          Get index message from a file, where 0 gets the first message
>          """
>
>          return open(expanduser(message_filename), 'r').readlines()[index].rstrip()
>
Very minor nit unrelated to the file closing question:
This would be a good place to give index a default value...

def get_indexed_message(message_filename, index=0):
     ...

      -=- Larry -=-



From roel at roelschroeven.net  Thu Apr 30 15:40:32 2015
From: roel at roelschroeven.net (Roel Schroeven)
Date: Thu, 30 Apr 2015 21:40:32 +0200
Subject: l = range(int(1E9))
In-Reply-To: <mhtlhm$qan$1@reader1.panix.com>
References: <87k2wtvbx1.fsf@Equus.decebal.nl> <mhtlhm$qan$1@reader1.panix.com>
Message-ID: <mhu0fi$3r1$1@ger.gmane.org>

Grant Edwards schreef op 2015-04-30 18:33:
> On 2015-04-30, Cecil Westerhof <Cecil at decebal.nl> wrote:
>> If I execute:
>>     l = range(int(1E9)
>>
>> The python process gobbles up all the memory and is killed. The
>> problem is that after this my swap is completely used, because other
>> processes have swapped to it. This make those programs more slowly.
>> Is there a way to circumvent Python claiming all the memory?
> 
> I presume "don't do that" has already occured to you?

A few weeks ago, I had a bug in a Python script which caused it to 
consume all memory, thrashed my computer; the system become unresponsive 
  and it was very difficult to kill the process and get everything back 
in working order.

Then I thought (foolishly) that the bug was fixed, so I ran the script 
again, with the same disastrous results. And then again. Stupid, I know.

A way to limit memory usage would have been nice: the script would have 
been killed before it could grind the whole system to a halt.

> You can always use ulimit to limit the memory allowed for the process
> running Python.

Sadly in my case the OS is Windows, and as far as I know it doesn't have 
a ulimit equivalent for limiting memory usage.

I guess I could have used 32-bit Python instead of 64-bit Python to 
limit available memory.


-- 
The saddest aspect of life right now is that science gathers knowledge
faster than society gathers wisdom.
   -- Isaac Asimov

Roel Schroeven



From Seymore4Head at Hotmail.invalid  Thu Apr 30 15:49:52 2015
From: Seymore4Head at Hotmail.invalid (Seymore4Head)
Date: Thu, 30 Apr 2015 15:49:52 -0400
Subject: Rounding a number
Message-ID: <du05kahu2bla717q2b09fc2p0foou7odcd@4ax.com>

I have this page book marked.
https://mkaz.com/2012/10/10/python-string-format/

I am getting numbers from sixty thousand to two hundred thousand.
I would like to round them to the nearest thousand.
So 65,253 should read 65,000.
How?

Total=2100
for x in range (10,35):
    count=1000/x
    print ("Foo {:7,.0f} Fighters".format(Total*count))


From thijs at buckazoids.com  Thu Apr 30 16:00:17 2015
From: thijs at buckazoids.com (Thijs Engels)
Date: Thu, 30 Apr 2015 22:00:17 +0200
Subject: Rounding a number
In-Reply-To: <du05kahu2bla717q2b09fc2p0foou7odcd@4ax.com>
References: <du05kahu2bla717q2b09fc2p0foou7odcd@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <1430424017.1387850.261172393.5226A2E8@webmail.messagingengine.com>

round(65253, -3)

might be what you are looking for...


On Thu, Apr 30, 2015, at 21:49, Seymore4Head wrote:
> I have this page book marked.
> https://mkaz.com/2012/10/10/python-string-format/
> 
> I am getting numbers from sixty thousand to two hundred thousand.
> I would like to round them to the nearest thousand.
> So 65,253 should read 65,000.
> How?
> 
> Total=2100
> for x in range (10,35):
>     count=1000/x
>     print ("Foo {:7,.0f} Fighters".format(Total*count))
> -- 
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list


From Cecil at decebal.nl  Thu Apr 30 16:05:01 2015
From: Cecil at decebal.nl (Cecil Westerhof)
Date: Thu, 30 Apr 2015 22:05:01 +0200
Subject: Python is not bad ;-)
References: <87mw1q9jqw.fsf@Equus.decebal.nl>
 <mailman.130.1430402596.3680.python-list@python.org>
 <87d22lvbnj.fsf@Equus.decebal.nl> <mhtqfg$gcj$1@dont-email.me>
Message-ID: <874mnxtmaa.fsf@Equus.decebal.nl>

Op Thursday 30 Apr 2015 19:59 CEST schreef Christian Gollwitzer:

> Am 30.04.15 um 18:11 schrieb Cecil Westerhof:
>> Op Thursday 30 Apr 2015 16:03 CEST schreef Michael Torrie:
>>
>>> On 04/30/2015 01:07 AM, Cecil Westerhof wrote:
>>>> When I do that the computer is freezed a few times. That is a
>>>> little less nice. Does not happen with Clojure when it gets an
>>>> out of memory.
>>>
>>> A system freeze is probably due to thrashing by your operating
>>> system as a process (in this case Python) uses more and more
>>> memory, causing massive swapping. Clojure's heap, being a
>>> JVM-based language, is based on JVM settings, so it may be maxing
>>> out at just a couple of GB. Whereas Python will happily max out
>>> your swap if your program demands the memory.
>>
>> I just posted a message about that. This gets the problem also:
>> l = range(int(1E9))
>>
>> The problem is that after this other processes are swapped out and
>> have a bad performance. There is nothing that can be done about it?
>>
>> So there is a positive point for working with the JVM. :-D
>>
>
> No, you understood this the wrong way. The JVM has a limit on the
> max memory size on startup, which you can give by the -Xmx option on
> the Oracle machine, so for instance
>
> java -Xmx512M -jar myjar.jar
>
> limits the memory that your program may consume to 512 megs, until
> the JVM kills it. The standard limit is usually fairly low and
> probably below your real memory, so the java program does not have
> the chance to max out your memory and make your computer swap.

Well, I did play a little with that. My experience is that this is to
high. For example by lowering it, a certain program did not swap
anymore. Sound counter intuitive, but not that strange if you know the
inner workings of the JVM.


> CPython, au contraire, uses all memory it can get from the OS. The
> OS kills it if it uses too much. On Linux, you can set this limit
> yourself using ulimit. The analogue to the java call would therefore
> be something like
>
> ulimit -m 512M
> python mypython.py

I use startup scripts for the different Java (or Scala, or Clojure)
programs to set the memory size. I should do that also for my (or
anothers) Python scripts.


> If you set the ulimit to something smaller than your physical memory
> size, you also cause the program to be killed before it can use up

Nope, the program gets a MemoryError and will not be killed. Much
better I think.


> should set both limits to the same value and see how far you can
> get.

You are right.

-- 
Cecil Westerhof
Senior Software Engineer
LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/cecilwesterhof


From breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk  Thu Apr 30 16:08:23 2015
From: breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk (Mark Lawrence)
Date: Thu, 30 Apr 2015 21:08:23 +0100
Subject: Rounding a number
In-Reply-To: <1430424017.1387850.261172393.5226A2E8@webmail.messagingengine.com>
References: <du05kahu2bla717q2b09fc2p0foou7odcd@4ax.com>
 <1430424017.1387850.261172393.5226A2E8@webmail.messagingengine.com>
Message-ID: <mhu23q$ce$1@ger.gmane.org>

On 30/04/2015 21:00, Thijs Engels wrote:
> On Thu, Apr 30, 2015, at 21:49, Seymore4Head wrote:
>> I have this page book marked.
>> https://mkaz.com/2012/10/10/python-string-format/
>>
>> I am getting numbers from sixty thousand to two hundred thousand.
>> I would like to round them to the nearest thousand.
>> So 65,253 should read 65,000.
>> How?
>>
>> Total=2100
>> for x in range (10,35):
>>      count=1000/x
>>      print ("Foo {:7,.0f} Fighters".format(Total*count))
>> --
>> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
 > round(65253, -3)
 >
 > might be what you are looking for...
 >
 >

True, but please don't top post here.  It's no problem on short threads, 
but as they get longer trying to follow when top posting is involved is 
nigh on impossible.

-- 
My fellow Pythonistas, ask not what our language can do for you, ask
what you can do for our language.

Mark Lawrence



From Cecil at decebal.nl  Thu Apr 30 16:18:08 2015
From: Cecil at decebal.nl (Cecil Westerhof)
Date: Thu, 30 Apr 2015 22:18:08 +0200
Subject: l = range(int(1E9))
References: <87k2wtvbx1.fsf@Equus.decebal.nl>
 <mailman.139.1430418355.3680.python-list@python.org>
 <mhttda$pf$1@speranza.aioe.org>
 <mailman.141.1430420396.3680.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <87zj5ps73z.fsf@Equus.decebal.nl>

Op Thursday 30 Apr 2015 20:59 CEST schreef Dave Angel:

> On 04/30/2015 02:48 PM, alister wrote:
>> On Thu, 30 Apr 2015 20:23:31 +0200, Gisle Vanem wrote:
>>
>>> Cecil Westerhof wrote:
>>>
>>>> If I execute:
>>>> l = range(int(1E9)
>>>>
>>>> The python process gobbles up all the memory and is killed. The
>>>> problem is that after this my swap is completely used, because
>>>> other processes have swapped to it. This make those programs more
>>>> slowly. Is there a way to circumvent Python claiming all the
>>>> memory?
>>>>
>>>> By the way: this is CPython 2.7.8.
>>>
>>> On what OS? If I try something similar on Win-8.1 and CPython
>>> 2.7.5 (32-bit):
>>>
>>> python -c "for i in range(int(1E9)): pass"
>>> Traceback (most recent call last):
>>> File "<string>", line 1, in <module>
>>> MemoryError
>>>
>>>
>>> --gv
>>
>> also MemoryError on Fedora 21 32 bit
>>
>
> That's presumably because you end up running out of address space
> before you run out of swap space. On a 64 bit system the reverse
> will be true, unless you have a really *really* large swap file
>
> ulimit is your friend if you've got a program that wants to gobble
> up all of swap space.

Yes, my system is openSUSE 64 bit. I really should look into ulimit.
The default is:
    core file size          (blocks, -c) 0
    data seg size           (kbytes, -d) unlimited
    scheduling priority             (-e) 0
    file size               (blocks, -f) unlimited
    pending signals                 (-i) 63768
    max locked memory       (kbytes, -l) 64
    max memory size         (kbytes, -m) unlimited
    open files                      (-n) 1024
    pipe size            (512 bytes, -p) 8
    POSIX message queues     (bytes, -q) 819200
    real-time priority              (-r) 0
    stack size              (kbytes, -s) 8192
    cpu time               (seconds, -t) unlimited
    max user processes              (-u) 63768
    virtual memory          (kbytes, -v) unlimited
    file locks                      (-x) unlimited

That should be fine-tuned.

-- 
Cecil Westerhof
Senior Software Engineer
LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/cecilwesterhof


From Cecil at decebal.nl  Thu Apr 30 16:35:24 2015
From: Cecil at decebal.nl (Cecil Westerhof)
Date: Thu, 30 Apr 2015 22:35:24 +0200
Subject: Is my implementation of happy number OK
References: <87oam5vc8k.fsf@Equus.decebal.nl>
 <mailman.140.1430420006.3680.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <87vbgds6b7.fsf@Equus.decebal.nl>

Op Thursday 30 Apr 2015 20:53 CEST schreef Dave Angel:

> On 04/30/2015 11:59 AM, Cecil Westerhof wrote:
>> I implemented happy_number function:
>> _happy_set      = { '1' }
>> _unhappy_set    = set()
>>
>> def happy_number(n):
>> """
>> Check if a number is a happy number
>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Happy_number
>> """
>>
>> def create_current(n):
>> current_array = sorted([value for value in str(n) if value != '0'])
>> return (current_array, ''.join(current_array))
>>
>> global _happy_set
>> global _unhappy_set
>>
>> current_run         = set()
>> current_array, \
>> current_string  = create_current(n)
>> if current_string in _happy_set:
>> return True
>> if current_string in _unhappy_set:
>> return False
>> while True:
>> current_run.add(current_string)
>> current_array, \
>> current_string = create_current(sum([int(value) ** 2
>> for value in current_string]))
>> if current_string in current_run | _unhappy_set:
>> _unhappy_set |= current_run
>> return False
>> if current_string in _happy_set:
>> _happy_set |= current_run
>> return True
>>
>> Besides it need some documentation: is it a good implementation? Or
>> are there things I should do differently?
>>
>> To decide for the values from 1 to 1E8 if it is happy or not, takes
>> 280 seconds. Not to bad I think. Also not very good.
>>
>
> First comment, if you're coding a complex implementation like this,
> take the time to do a brute force one as well. Then you can compare
> the results between brute force and your optimized one for all
> possible values, and make sure you haven't introduced any bugs.

Not a bad idea.


> My brute force looks like:
>
> #Dave's version, brute force
>
> def davea1(n):
> cache = []
> anum = str(n)
> newnum = 0
> while newnum != 1:
> newnum = sum(int(i)*int(i) for i in anum)
> anum = str(newnum)
> if newnum in cache:
> return False     #not a happy number
> cache.append(newnum)
> return True  #found a happy number
>
> I then tried an optimized one, and my speed is only about 10% faster
> than yours for 1e7 loops. I show it anyway, since I think it reads a
> little better. And readability counts much more than a little
> performance.

Well if it performs better and reads better you surely should show it.


> #optimizations: cached happy and unhappy sets sort the digits, and
> #   compare only the sorted values, without zeroes davea_happy = {1}
> #   davea_unhappy = set()
>
> SQUARES = dict((str(i), i*i) for i in xrange(10))
>
> def davea2(n):
> global davea_happy, davea_unhappy
> cache = set()
> newnum = n
> while newnum != 1:
> newnum = int("".join(sorted(str(newnum))))
> if newnum in davea_unhappy or newnum in cache:
> davea_unhappy |= cache
> return False     #not a happy number
> if newnum in davea_happy:
> break
> cache.add(newnum)
> newnum = sum(SQUARES[ch] for ch in str(newnum))
> davea_happy |= cache
> return True  #found a happy number
>
> Finally, I did some testing on Jon Ribben's version. His was
> substantially faster for smaller sets, and about the same for 10*7.
> So it's likely it'll be slower than yours and mine for 10**8. But
> the real reason I didn't like it was it produced a much larger set
> of happy_numbers, which could clog memory a lot sooner. For 10**7
> items, I had 3250 happy members, and 19630 unhappy. And Jon had
> 1418854 happy members.

My version has 1625 and 9814. I do not understand the difference.

-- 
Cecil Westerhof
Senior Software Engineer
LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/cecilwesterhof


From Cecil at decebal.nl  Thu Apr 30 16:50:44 2015
From: Cecil at decebal.nl (Cecil Westerhof)
Date: Thu, 30 Apr 2015 22:50:44 +0200
Subject: seek operation in python
References: <8b2bd328-08a6-4211-85c4-8d117d1aae1e@googlegroups.com>
 <mailman.107.1430354001.3680.python-list@python.org>
 <87vbge9lm6.fsf@Equus.decebal.nl>
 <mailman.118.1430379207.3680.python-list@python.org>
 <87y4lavy4q.fsf@Equus.decebal.nl>
 <CJydnT_05MIuGd_InZ2dnUU7-UGdnZ2d@giganews.com>
Message-ID: <87r3r1s5ln.fsf@Equus.decebal.nl>

Op Thursday 30 Apr 2015 21:38 CEST schreef Larry Hudson:

> On 04/30/2015 01:06 AM, Cecil Westerhof wrote:
> [snip]
>
>> I wrote a module where I have:
>> def get_indexed_message(message_filename, index):
>> """
>> Get index message from a file, where 0 gets the first message
>> """
>>
>> return open(expanduser(message_filename),
>> 'r').readlines()[index].rstrip()
>>
> Very minor nit unrelated to the file closing question:
> This would be a good place to give index a default value...
>
> def get_indexed_message(message_filename, index=0):

Why would you want this? I think the index should always be defined.

-- 
Cecil Westerhof
Senior Software Engineer
LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/cecilwesterhof


From breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk  Thu Apr 30 16:53:24 2015
From: breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk (Mark Lawrence)
Date: Thu, 30 Apr 2015 21:53:24 +0100
Subject: l = range(int(1E9))
In-Reply-To: <87mw1ptpr0.fsf@Equus.decebal.nl>
References: <87k2wtvbx1.fsf@Equus.decebal.nl>
 <mailman.135.1430413555.3680.python-list@python.org>
 <mhtnpg$fsf$1@dont-email.me> <87mw1ptpr0.fsf@Equus.decebal.nl>
Message-ID: <mhu4o7$d4r$1@ger.gmane.org>

On 30/04/2015 19:50, Cecil Westerhof wrote:
> Op Thursday 30 Apr 2015 19:12 CEST schreef Rob Gaddi:
>
>> This also leads to a unrelated question, Cecil. Given that you
>> really are just starting to get your Python feet under you, why are
>> you using Python2? Python3 is the standard now, Python2 is really
>> just given legacy support. I'd understand if you were trying to
>> maintain an old codebase with lots of legacy code that was having
>> "problematic" migrations, but with the opportunity to start fresh?
>> Start fresh. You'll be happier for it.
>
> I try to write code that works with both. Wen looking around in the
> Netherlands there are more job opportunities with Python 2 as with
> Python 3. So at the moment I find Python 2 more important, without
> forgetting Python 3.
>

You might find this useful then in you haven't already seen it 
https://docs.python.org/3/howto/pyporting.html

I must also confess to being highly impressed, it's a breath of fresh 
air having an apprentice Pythonista who is looking at doing things the 
Pythonic way :)

-- 
My fellow Pythonistas, ask not what our language can do for you, ask
what you can do for our language.

Mark Lawrence



From breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk  Thu Apr 30 17:01:09 2015
From: breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk (Mark Lawrence)
Date: Thu, 30 Apr 2015 22:01:09 +0100
Subject: Nuitka Progress in Spring 2015
Message-ID: <mhu56n$d4r$2@ger.gmane.org>

Sales and marketing doesn't appear to be Kay Hayen's great strength so 
I'm taking a massive liberty and flagging Nuitka up here anyway.

http://nuitka.net/posts/nuitka-progress-spring-2015.html

-- 
My fellow Pythonistas, ask not what our language can do for you, ask
what you can do for our language.

Mark Lawrence



From elchino at cnn.cn  Thu Apr 30 17:23:01 2015
From: elchino at cnn.cn (ElChino)
Date: Thu, 30 Apr 2015 23:23:01 +0200
Subject: l = range(int(1E9))
In-Reply-To: <mailman.146.1430427228.3680.python-list@python.org>
References: <87k2wtvbx1.fsf@Equus.decebal.nl>
 <mailman.135.1430413555.3680.python-list@python.org>
 <mhtnpg$fsf$1@dont-email.me> <87mw1ptpr0.fsf@Equus.decebal.nl>
 <mailman.146.1430427228.3680.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <mhu6df$6bs$2@dont-email.me>

Mark Lawrence wrote:

> You might find this useful then in you haven't already seen it
> https://docs.python.org/3/howto/pyporting.html

The main reason I haven't switched to Python3 (from 2.7.4/MSVC),
is fear of a major breakage. How can I be certain that even if
I install to different directories, the Python2 and Python3 won't
step on each other toes. And what about all the .pyd I have around?
Do they need an update?

I'm barely familiar with virtualenv BTW; not sure another
confusing factor in the equation would be a good idea. Or
lessen my fear.




From davea at davea.name  Thu Apr 30 17:31:24 2015
From: davea at davea.name (Dave Angel)
Date: Thu, 30 Apr 2015 17:31:24 -0400
Subject: Is my implementation of happy number OK
In-Reply-To: <87vbgds6b7.fsf@Equus.decebal.nl>
References: <87oam5vc8k.fsf@Equus.decebal.nl>
 <mailman.140.1430420006.3680.python-list@python.org>
 <87vbgds6b7.fsf@Equus.decebal.nl>
Message-ID: <55429F2C.6020205@davea.name>

On 04/30/2015 04:35 PM, Cecil Westerhof wrote:
> Op Thursday 30 Apr 2015 20:53 CEST schreef Dave Angel:
>
>>
>> Finally, I did some testing on Jon Ribben's version. His was
>> substantially faster for smaller sets, and about the same for 10*7.
>> So it's likely it'll be slower than yours and mine for 10**8. But
>> the real reason I didn't like it was it produced a much larger set
>> of happy_numbers, which could clog memory a lot sooner. For 10**7
>> items, I had 3250 happy members, and 19630 unhappy. And Jon had
>> 1418854 happy members.
>
> My version has 1625 and 9814. I do not understand the difference.
>

My error.  I had also written a version of the function that stored 
strings instead of ints, and the counts of 3250/19630 was for sets that 
had BOTH.

An exercise for the reader.  Notice that in my brute force algorithm I 
use no global sets.  But I do use an internal list, which is apparently 
unbounded.  So it's feasible to run out of memory.  The challenge is to 
write a similar function that uses no lists, sets, or dicts, just an 
algorithm that detects for an arbitrary sized number whether it's happy 
or not.  (It may not be very quick, but that's yet to be decided.  I'm 
already surprised that the present brute force function  davea1() only 
takes about twice as long as the fancy global caching schemes.

-- 
DaveA


From python.list at tim.thechases.com  Thu Apr 30 17:41:37 2015
From: python.list at tim.thechases.com (Tim Chase)
Date: Thu, 30 Apr 2015 16:41:37 -0500
Subject: l = range(int(1E9))
In-Reply-To: <87zj5ps73z.fsf@Equus.decebal.nl>
References: <87k2wtvbx1.fsf@Equus.decebal.nl>
 <mailman.139.1430418355.3680.python-list@python.org>
 <mhttda$pf$1@speranza.aioe.org>
 <mailman.141.1430420396.3680.python-list@python.org>
 <87zj5ps73z.fsf@Equus.decebal.nl>
Message-ID: <20150430164137.52eb1912@bigbox.christie.dr>

On 2015-04-30 22:18, Cecil Westerhof wrote:
> Op Thursday 30 Apr 2015 20:59 CEST schreef Dave Angel:
>> ulimit is your friend if you've got a program that wants to gobble
>> up all of swap space.
> 
> Yes, my system is openSUSE 64 bit. I really should look into ulimit.
> The default is:
[snip]
>     max memory size         (kbytes, -m) unlimited

Note that AFAIK, "ulimit -m" doesn't work on Linux

http://unix.stackexchange.com/questions/129587/does-ulimit-m-not-work-on-modern-linux

Based on some quick testing[1], it doesn't appear to work on OpenBSD
or FreeBSD either.

-tkc


[1]
My test was to perform the following:

1) seq 20 > data.txt # to generate some random date

2) ed data.txt

3) find the PID of the "ed" process from another window using "ps ax
| grep ed"

4) make note of the current memory used for that PID using "top -p
$PID"

5) issue ",t$" in ed until the memory-used jumps up in the "top"
window (this copies the entire file to the bottom of the file,
doubling the size each time)

6) quit ed without saving ("Q")

7) issue "ulimit -m", specifying a threshold between the
before-the-memory-jump and after-the-memory-jump values

8) repeat steps 2-5 until the memory jumps up in top.  Notice that
it's possible to do this multiple times and exceed the "ulimit -m"
threshold, something the ulimit should prevent.




.


From Seymore4Head at Hotmail.invalid  Thu Apr 30 18:35:14 2015
From: Seymore4Head at Hotmail.invalid (Seymore4Head)
Date: Thu, 30 Apr 2015 18:35:14 -0400
Subject: Rounding a number
References: <du05kahu2bla717q2b09fc2p0foou7odcd@4ax.com>
 <mailman.144.1430424020.3680.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <7fb5kad577q6rug73bjmrguhuffhn28mlh@4ax.com>

On Thu, 30 Apr 2015 22:00:17 +0200, Thijs Engels
<thijs at buckazoids.com> wrote:

>round(65253, -3)
>
>might be what you are looking for...
>
>
>On Thu, Apr 30, 2015, at 21:49, Seymore4Head wrote:
>> I have this page book marked.
>> https://mkaz.com/2012/10/10/python-string-format/
>> 
>> I am getting numbers from sixty thousand to two hundred thousand.
>> I would like to round them to the nearest thousand.
>> So 65,253 should read 65,000.
>> How?
>> 
>> Total=2100
>> for x in range (10,35):
>>     count=1000/x
>>     print ("Foo {:7,.0f} Fighters".format(Total*count))
>> -- 
>> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

Thanks

I know there are more than one way to round and answer.  I was hoping
that using the {:7,.0f} formatting had a solution.


From rosuav at gmail.com  Thu Apr 30 18:45:56 2015
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Fri, 1 May 2015 08:45:56 +1000
Subject: l = range(int(1E9))
In-Reply-To: <mhu6df$6bs$2@dont-email.me>
References: <87k2wtvbx1.fsf@Equus.decebal.nl>
 <mailman.135.1430413555.3680.python-list@python.org>
 <mhtnpg$fsf$1@dont-email.me> <87mw1ptpr0.fsf@Equus.decebal.nl>
 <mailman.146.1430427228.3680.python-list@python.org>
 <mhu6df$6bs$2@dont-email.me>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmrs=a=L9TiRUnBPs561bEQFsoBv+3oaQmez5Yi-1gEW6A@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, May 1, 2015 at 7:23 AM, ElChino <elchino at cnn.cn> wrote:
> Mark Lawrence wrote:
>
>> You might find this useful then in you haven't already seen it
>> https://docs.python.org/3/howto/pyporting.html
>
>
> The main reason I haven't switched to Python3 (from 2.7.4/MSVC),
> is fear of a major breakage. How can I be certain that even if
> I install to different directories, the Python2 and Python3 won't
> step on each other toes. And what about all the .pyd I have around?
> Do they need an update?
>
> I'm barely familiar with virtualenv BTW; not sure another
> confusing factor in the equation would be a good idea. Or
> lessen my fear.

Very easily and simply: Python 3 and Python 2 will always install
separately, and the only possible conflicts are over the "python"
command in PATH and which program is associated with ".py" files. You
can fix both of them by installing a recent version of Python and
using the py.exe launcher:

https://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0397/
https://docs.python.org/3/using/windows.html#python-launcher-for-windows

As to your .pyd files... they'll continue to work with Python 2.7
(and, incidentally, I would suggest upgrading to 2.7.9 or 2.7.10), but
you'll need to update them for Python 3. If you got them from a third
party, chances are good that there'll be a Py3 build available; if you
built them from source, you could try just recompiling the latest
source. But if you wrote them yourself, you may well have to make some
changes to get them to compile against Python 3.

If you have issues, start a new thread; people will be happy to help.

ChrisA


From davea at davea.name  Thu Apr 30 18:58:50 2015
From: davea at davea.name (Dave Angel)
Date: Thu, 30 Apr 2015 18:58:50 -0400
Subject: Rounding a number
In-Reply-To: <7fb5kad577q6rug73bjmrguhuffhn28mlh@4ax.com>
References: <du05kahu2bla717q2b09fc2p0foou7odcd@4ax.com>
 <mailman.144.1430424020.3680.python-list@python.org>
 <7fb5kad577q6rug73bjmrguhuffhn28mlh@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <5542B3AA.8090304@davea.name>

On 04/30/2015 06:35 PM, Seymore4Head wrote:
> On Thu, 30 Apr 2015 22:00:17 +0200, Thijs Engels
> <thijs at buckazoids.com> wrote:
>
>> round(65253, -3)
>>
>> might be what you are looking for...
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Apr 30, 2015, at 21:49, Seymore4Head wrote:
>>> I have this page book marked.
>>> https://mkaz.com/2012/10/10/python-string-format/
>>>
>>> I am getting numbers from sixty thousand to two hundred thousand.
>>> I would like to round them to the nearest thousand.
>>> So 65,253 should read 65,000.
>>> How?
>>>
>>> Total=2100
>>> for x in range (10,35):
>>>      count=1000/x
>>>      print ("Foo {:7,.0f} Fighters".format(Total*count))
>>> --
>>> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>
> Thanks
>
> I know there are more than one way to round and answer.  I was hoping
> that using the {:7,.0f} formatting had a solution.
>

There are definite tradeoffs, but since you're rounding to integer size, 
the round() function works fine.  If you wanted tenths, you'd have to 
realize that a float (which is binary float) can't represent them 
exactly.  So depending on what further processing you do, you might see 
some effects that would not seem like it worked right.

Using the % or the .format style of formatting works fine, but it gives 
you a string.  You didn't specify that, so people probably assumed you 
wanted numbers.

-- 
DaveA


From elchino at cnn.cn  Thu Apr 30 19:03:17 2015
From: elchino at cnn.cn (ElChino)
Date: Fri, 01 May 2015 01:03:17 +0200
Subject: l = range(int(1E9))
In-Reply-To: <mailman.150.1430433966.3680.python-list@python.org>
References: <87k2wtvbx1.fsf@Equus.decebal.nl>
 <mailman.135.1430413555.3680.python-list@python.org>
 <mhtnpg$fsf$1@dont-email.me> <87mw1ptpr0.fsf@Equus.decebal.nl>
 <mailman.146.1430427228.3680.python-list@python.org>
 <mhu6df$6bs$2@dont-email.me>
 <mailman.150.1430433966.3680.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <mhuc9f$vd6$1@dont-email.me>

Chris Angelico wrote:

 > Very easily and simply: Python 3 and Python 2 will always install
> separately, and the only possible conflicts are over the "python"
> command in PATH and which program is associated with ".py" files. You
> can fix both of them by installing a recent version of Python and
> using the py.exe launcher:

Thanks for the info. I'll give it a try.



From ben+python at benfinney.id.au  Thu Apr 30 19:12:33 2015
From: ben+python at benfinney.id.au (Ben Finney)
Date: Fri, 01 May 2015 09:12:33 +1000
Subject: l = range(int(1E9))
References: <87k2wtvbx1.fsf@Equus.decebal.nl>
 <mailman.135.1430413555.3680.python-list@python.org>
 <mhtnpg$fsf$1@dont-email.me> <87mw1ptpr0.fsf@Equus.decebal.nl>
 <mailman.146.1430427228.3680.python-list@python.org>
 <mhu6df$6bs$2@dont-email.me>
 <CAPTjJmrs=a=L9TiRUnBPs561bEQFsoBv+3oaQmez5Yi-1gEW6A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <85d22lgqhq.fsf@benfinney.id.au>

Chris Angelico <rosuav at gmail.com> writes:

> Very easily and simply: Python 3 and Python 2 will always install
> separately, and the only possible conflicts are over the "python"
> command in PATH and which program is associated with ".py" files.

Calling ?python? is now ambiguous, and with Python 2 slipping inexorably
into the past, increasingly the ?python? command is the wrong choice for
code that we want to survive in the future.

I am seeing a growing call, with which I agree, to recommend explicitly
calling ?python2? or ?python3? as commands.

That includes when we type it for direct invocation, or when we set it
as the command for automatic execution of a program (e.g. in the
?shebang? line of a program).

Use the command ?python2? or ?python3? to be explicit about which Python
version you intend to run.

-- 
 \      ?I don't want to live peacefully with difficult realities, and |
  `\     I see no virtue in savoring excuses for avoiding a search for |
_o__)                        real answers.? ?Paul Z. Myers, 2009-09-12 |
Ben Finney



From ben+python at benfinney.id.au  Thu Apr 30 19:19:57 2015
From: ben+python at benfinney.id.au (Ben Finney)
Date: Fri, 01 May 2015 09:19:57 +1000
Subject: Use =?utf-8?B?4oCYcHl0aG9uMuKAmQ==?= or =?utf-8?B?4oCYcHl0aG9u?=
 =?utf-8?B?M+KAmSw=?= explicit is better than implicit  (was: l =
 range(int(1E9)))
References: <87k2wtvbx1.fsf@Equus.decebal.nl>
 <mailman.135.1430413555.3680.python-list@python.org>
 <mhtnpg$fsf$1@dont-email.me> <87mw1ptpr0.fsf@Equus.decebal.nl>
 <mailman.146.1430427228.3680.python-list@python.org>
 <mhu6df$6bs$2@dont-email.me>
 <CAPTjJmrs=a=L9TiRUnBPs561bEQFsoBv+3oaQmez5Yi-1gEW6A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <854mnxgq5e.fsf_-_@benfinney.id.au>

Chris Angelico <rosuav at gmail.com> writes:

> Very easily and simply: Python 3 and Python 2 will always install
> separately, and the only possible conflicts are over the "python"
> command in PATH and which program is associated with ".py" files.

Using the ?python? command is now ambiguous, and with Python 2 slipping
inexorably into the past, increasingly the ?python? command is the wrong
choice for Python programs that we want to survive in the future.

I am seeing a growing call, with which I agree, to recommend explicitly
calling ?python2? or ?python3? as commands.

That includes when we type it for direct one-time invocation, or when we
set it as the command for automatic execution of a program (e.g. in the
?shebang? line of a program).

Use the command ?python2? or ?python3? to be explicit about which Python
version you intend to run. Legacy programs will continue to work, and
code targeting Python 3 will not accidentally get an incompatible Python
2 interpreter.

-- 
 \      ?I don't want to live peacefully with difficult realities, and |
  `\     I see no virtue in savoring excuses for avoiding a search for |
_o__)                        real answers.? ?Paul Z. Myers, 2009-09-12 |
Ben Finney



From rosuav at gmail.com  Thu Apr 30 19:23:51 2015
From: rosuav at gmail.com (Chris Angelico)
Date: Fri, 1 May 2015 09:23:51 +1000
Subject: l = range(int(1E9))
In-Reply-To: <85d22lgqhq.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
References: <87k2wtvbx1.fsf@Equus.decebal.nl>
 <mailman.135.1430413555.3680.python-list@python.org>
 <mhtnpg$fsf$1@dont-email.me> <87mw1ptpr0.fsf@Equus.decebal.nl>
 <mailman.146.1430427228.3680.python-list@python.org>
 <mhu6df$6bs$2@dont-email.me>
 <CAPTjJmrs=a=L9TiRUnBPs561bEQFsoBv+3oaQmez5Yi-1gEW6A@mail.gmail.com>
 <85d22lgqhq.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
Message-ID: <CAPTjJmo05Le72H2k3BhgzoyNjTNtL8uP7bLWLCxhS-WfHb4Agw@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, May 1, 2015 at 9:12 AM, Ben Finney <ben+python at benfinney.id.au> wrote:
> Chris Angelico <rosuav at gmail.com> writes:
>
>> Very easily and simply: Python 3 and Python 2 will always install
>> separately, and the only possible conflicts are over the "python"
>> command in PATH and which program is associated with ".py" files.
>
> Calling ?python? is now ambiguous, and with Python 2 slipping inexorably
> into the past, increasingly the ?python? command is the wrong choice for
> code that we want to survive in the future.
>
> I am seeing a growing call, with which I agree, to recommend explicitly
> calling ?python2? or ?python3? as commands.
>

Agreed. And on Windows, the "py -3" or "py -2" options are also available.

ChrisA


From nodnarb at gmx.us  Thu Apr 30 19:27:52 2015
From: nodnarb at gmx.us (brandon wallace)
Date: Fri, 1 May 2015 01:27:52 +0200
Subject: Try Except Specific Error Messages
Message-ID: <trinity-d2e41874-219e-46a2-8768-44616fc2dce5-1430436471933@3capp-mailcom-lxa05>


Hi,
?
I am try to get more specific error messages using try/except.
I ran this code with the cable unplugged to see the error message. I got 

#!/usr/bin/env python3

import urllib.request

webpage = urllib.request.urlopen("http://fakewebsite.com/")
text = webpage.read().decode("utf8")


I got two errors. This:
[....]
socket.gaierror: [Errno -2] Name or service not known

and this:
[....]
urllib.error.URLError: <urlopen error [Errno -2] Name or service not known>

I tried this but got more error messages.
try:
    webpage = urllib.request.urlopen("http://fakewebsite.com/")
    text = webpage.read().decode("utf8")
except URLError as err:
    print("URLError: " + str(err))

How do I wrap urllib.request with try/except?


From jon+usenet at unequivocal.co.uk  Thu Apr 30 19:31:45 2015
From: jon+usenet at unequivocal.co.uk (Jon Ribbens)
Date: Thu, 30 Apr 2015 23:31:45 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Is my implementation of happy number OK
References: <87oam5vc8k.fsf@Equus.decebal.nl>
 <mailman.140.1430420006.3680.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <slrnmk5esv.apd.jon+usenet@frosty.unequivocal.co.uk>

On 2015-04-30, Dave Angel <davea at davea.name> wrote:
> Finally, I did some testing on Jon Ribben's version.  His was 
> substantially faster for smaller sets, and about the same for 10*7.  So 
> it's likely it'll be slower than yours and mine for 10**8.

You know what they say about assumptions. Actually, my version is six
times faster for 10**8 (running under Python 3.4).

> But the real reason I didn't like it was it produced a much larger
> set of happy_numbers, which could clog memory a lot sooner.  For
> 10**7 items, I had 3250 happy members, and 19630 unhappy.  And Jon
> had 1418854 happy members.

Er, what? You're complaining that mine is less efficient by not
producing the wrong output?


From davea at davea.name  Thu Apr 30 19:52:13 2015
From: davea at davea.name (Dave Angel)
Date: Thu, 30 Apr 2015 19:52:13 -0400
Subject: Is my implementation of happy number OK
In-Reply-To: <slrnmk5esv.apd.jon+usenet@frosty.unequivocal.co.uk>
References: <87oam5vc8k.fsf@Equus.decebal.nl>
 <mailman.140.1430420006.3680.python-list@python.org>
 <slrnmk5esv.apd.jon+usenet@frosty.unequivocal.co.uk>
Message-ID: <5542C02D.8000605@davea.name>

On 04/30/2015 07:31 PM, Jon Ribbens wrote:
> On 2015-04-30, Dave Angel <davea at davea.name> wrote:
>> Finally, I did some testing on Jon Ribben's version.  His was
>> substantially faster for smaller sets, and about the same for 10*7.  So
>> it's likely it'll be slower than yours and mine for 10**8.
>
> You know what they say about assumptions. Actually, my version is six
> times faster for 10**8 (running under Python 3.4).
>
>> But the real reason I didn't like it was it produced a much larger
>> set of happy_numbers, which could clog memory a lot sooner.  For
>> 10**7 items, I had 3250 happy members, and 19630 unhappy.  And Jon
>> had 1418854 happy members.
>
> Er, what? You're complaining that mine is less efficient by not
> producing the wrong output?
>

It's not intended as a criticism;  you solved a different problem.  The 
problem Cecil was solving was to determine if a particular number is 
happy.  The problem you solved was to make a list of all values under a 
particular limit that are happy.

Both produce identical results for the Cecil purpose, and yours is 
faster if one wants all the values.  But if one wants a sampling of 
values, his function will fetch them quickly, and even if you want them 
all, his function will use much less memory.

He keeps only one permutation of each value in the set, for substantial 
savings in space.  For example, he might just keep 28, while you keep 28 
and 82, 208, 280, 802, and 820.


-- 
DaveA


From rustompmody at gmail.com  Thu Apr 30 22:24:51 2015
From: rustompmody at gmail.com (Rustom Mody)
Date: Thu, 30 Apr 2015 19:24:51 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Use 'python2' or 'python3', explicit is better than implicit
 (was: l = range(int(1E9)))
In-Reply-To: <mailman.153.1430436032.3680.python-list@python.org>
References: <87k2wtvbx1.fsf@Equus.decebal.nl>
 <mailman.135.1430413555.3680.python-list@python.org>
 <mhtnpg$fsf$1@dont-email.me> <87mw1ptpr0.fsf@Equus.decebal.nl>
 <mailman.146.1430427228.3680.python-list@python.org>
 <mhu6df$6bs$2@dont-email.me>
 <CAPTjJmrs=a=L9TiRUnBPs561bEQFsoBv+3oaQmez5Yi-1gEW6A@mail.gmail.com>
 <mailman.153.1430436032.3680.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <efc3030e-5d4f-464a-a0f1-9f4092a2fdea@googlegroups.com>

On Friday, May 1, 2015 at 4:50:45 AM UTC+5:30, Ben Finney wrote:
> Chris Angelico  writes:
> 
> > Very easily and simply: Python 3 and Python 2 will always install
> > separately, and the only possible conflicts are over the "python"
> > command in PATH and which program is associated with ".py" files.
> 
> Using the 'python' command is now ambiguous, and with Python 2 slipping
> inexorably into the past, increasingly the 'python' command is the wrong
> choice for Python programs that we want to survive in the future.
> 
> I am seeing a growing call, with which I agree, to recommend explicitly
> calling 'python2' or 'python3' as commands.

There was this recent exchange on the debian user list.
The OP asked a somewhat vague/generic question about recommendations for
programming books[0]

After some point when I put in
| 20 years ago I had written that C fries students' brains.
| If python had existed then I would have recommended it.[1]


Someone responded with:

| And yes, about the only *reasonable* way to understand Linux is to do
| write something which (ab)using syscalls. And that's something best done
| in C (maybe Perl).

| And please think of the children :) Teaching young ones something as
| volatile and ever-changing as Python (or, $DEITY forbid, Ruby) can be
| considered cruel and abusive :)  [2] [3]

>From which I conclude that in the short term distinguishing python 2 from 3
may be convenient.
In the long term and in circles further away from those directly interested
in python... not clear (to me at least)

Coming to this question you rightly said:
> You seem to be asking for a way to stop a program doing exactly what
> it's written to do. I don't know what kind of answer you expect. 

which is to say if you explore pathology you will get pathological behavior.
What of it?

------------------------------------------
[0] https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2015/04/msg00497.html
[1] https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2015/04/msg00650.html
[2] https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2015/04/msg00660.html
[3] https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2015/04/msg00682.html


From orgnut at yahoo.com  Thu Apr 30 22:42:24 2015
From: orgnut at yahoo.com (Larry Hudson)
Date: Thu, 30 Apr 2015 19:42:24 -0700
Subject: seek operation in python
In-Reply-To: <87r3r1s5ln.fsf@Equus.decebal.nl>
References: <8b2bd328-08a6-4211-85c4-8d117d1aae1e@googlegroups.com>	<mailman.107.1430354001.3680.python-list@python.org>	<87vbge9lm6.fsf@Equus.decebal.nl>	<mailman.118.1430379207.3680.python-list@python.org>	<87y4lavy4q.fsf@Equus.decebal.nl>	<CJydnT_05MIuGd_InZ2dnUU7-UGdnZ2d@giganews.com>
 <87r3r1s5ln.fsf@Equus.decebal.nl>
Message-ID: <TM2dnd-1zveMdd_InZ2dnUU7-eednZ2d@giganews.com>

On 04/30/2015 01:50 PM, Cecil Westerhof wrote:
> Op Thursday 30 Apr 2015 21:38 CEST schreef Larry Hudson:
>
>> On 04/30/2015 01:06 AM, Cecil Westerhof wrote:
>> [snip]
>>
>>> I wrote a module where I have:
>>> def get_indexed_message(message_filename, index):
>>> """
>>> Get index message from a file, where 0 gets the first message
>>> """
>>>
>>> return open(expanduser(message_filename),
>>> 'r').readlines()[index].rstrip()
>>>
>> Very minor nit unrelated to the file closing question:
>> This would be a good place to give index a default value...
>>
>> def get_indexed_message(message_filename, index=0):
>
> Why would you want this? I think the index should always be defined.
>
Matter of opinion, of course, but this allows calling the function without specifying the index 
and you still get a useful (and logical) result.  I find this convenient in most similar cases. 
  Using default parameters is quite Pythonic.  Note that this _permits_ using the function this 
way, it does not _require_ it.  Of course, it also should be suitably documented.  Naturally, YMMV.

      -=- Larry -=-