Everything good about Python except GUI IDE?

Rustom Mody rustompmody at gmail.com
Sun Feb 28 07:54:07 EST 2016

On Sunday, February 28, 2016 at 6:08:44 PM UTC+5:30, BartC wrote:
> On 28/02/2016 06:34, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> > GUI elements are by definition graphical in nature, and like other graphical
> > elements, manipulation by hand is superior to command-based manipulation.
> > Graphical interfaces for manipulating graphics have won the UI war so
> > effectively that some people have forgotten there ever was a war. Can you
> > imagine using Photoshop without drag and drop?
> >
> > And yet programming those graphical interfaces is an exception. There, with
> > very few exceptions, we still *require* a command interface. Not just a
> > command interface, but an *off-line* command interface, where you batch up
> > all your commands then run them at once, as if we were Neanderthals living
> > in a cave.
> You've got that back to front.
> It's the GUI users who are the Neanderthals, having to effectively point 
> at things with sticks. Or have to physically move that rock themselves 
> (ie. drag a file to a wastebasket).

Creature A: Plays with a toy -- usually called 'child'
Creature B: Makes toys, possibly designs new ones... Can be child

Are these same?
Steven is talking of GUI *programmers*
You are talking of GUI *users*

> More advanced uses have the power of language, with all its 
> sophistications (ie. commands lines and scripting). And they don't need 
> to move that rock, they can tell someone else to do it! But with far 
> more control: all rocks of a certain size and colour, and at sunrise 
> tomorrow.

You seem to have a rather limited view of language.
Math is a language
Music is a language -- and sophisticated music analysis can slot music
according to genre etc
So also GUIs

> Some things are just more easily described with a script or formula or 
> algorithm which is then 'rendered' to produce the result. Not quite 
> right? Change one parameter to re-render to instantly produce a new 
> version, that would have taken minutes or hours to do manually.
> > An effective and modern GUI builder UI should be programmable without
> > requiring programming. About thirty years ago Apple came up with the ideal
> > mix of graphical and programmatic development for its Hypercard product.
> > You built applications by dragging and dropping widgets on the screen, or
> > by copying and pasting them from a library of pre-made widgets.
> You have to give someone some shopping to do. What's quicker, jotting 
> down a list of milk, bread, eggs and so on, or invoking some GUI program 
> where you have to first look for each category, then have to choose the 
> exact subcategory, size, quantity...

Dunno what that has to do with GUI
It seems to be to do with 'coding-up'
The string "milk" codes up milk more efficiently than category navigation
and manipulation

That programmers are 50 years behind laypersons in terms of computer USAGE:

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