Cult-like behaviour [was Re: Kindness]

Abdur-Rahmaan Janhangeer arj.python at
Sun Jul 15 11:57:38 EDT 2018


don't know [replying to your message but addressing to all]

i respect you all, i respect your involvement, i doubt not your py skills
but can you please stay on topic and be concise

i value all posts here and try to read them all as they are all serious
stuffs but when you mix in long paragraphs i have to take the pain to
summarise what you just said

also i *beg* you all if possible to ignore the like of

postx : you are a vermicelli pudding from the north korean suburb of some
south pole city

posty : you seem like a childish python programmer having Phe in Haskell

postz : *some more obscure references*

i can feel the octopus nature of some threads in my bones

Abdur-Rahmaan Janhangeer

> Of course we have no idea what Marko's software is, or what it is doing,
> > but frankly that seems pretty implausible to me. On the face of it, it
> > seems as ridiculous as the claim that he can't tell which variables are
> > quote-unquote "really" lists of weights and which are lists of distances.
> >
> > On the face of things, this really sounds more like an admission that
> > Marko is working with a shitty code base, not a fundamental problem with
> > Python. But dealing with shitty code bases is the reality.
> Fair point - but doesn't justify hating on Python 3 for making it
> easier to work with good code than with bad code. I've had to work
> with ridiculous data formats before (forty-ish lines of block comment
> concluding with "Cthulhu's got nothing on a determined bank"), but
> when that happens, I *know* that my code is being warped to fit the
> requirements. It's not something to replicate elsewhere.
> >>>>> In the end, the Gordian Knot was sliced by using
> >>>>> Python3's strings for everything and restricting oneself to Latin-1
> >>>>> codepoints (almost) everywhere.
> > [...]
> >
> > I wonder whether Marko's Python 2.7 code base was ever actually tested
> > with non-Latin1 text. I suspect that if Marko had (let's say) Japanese
> > users expecting to use CJK characters in the application, his affection
> > for the 2.7 version would be a lot less.
> I very much doubt it has. He *restricted* to Latin-1, which means that
> he threw away all the support Python offers, restricting to one
> seventy-thousandth of the available characters, or a thousandth of the
> allocated ones.
> >> Text strings and sequences of bytes *are different*.
> >
> > At an implementation level, everything is bytes. People do so insist on
> > conflating implementation with interface, even when they don't need to...
> And at a different implementation level, everything is electrical signals.
> > (Sometimes I think people should be required to implement algorithms on
> > analogue computing devices before they're allowed to write code for
> > digital computers, just to drive home the point that neither bytes nor
> > bits are fundamental to computing, but are mere implementation details.)
> Every week, I live-stream a workshop on data structures and
> algorithms. (You're all most welcome to come by; it's Friday lunchtime
> in the US, or Saturday early morning in Australia.) I use JavaScript
> (because a lot of people know it), Python (because it's a really
> expressive language), or a deck of cards. Have you ever seen
> merge-sort implemented on a deck of cards? It's beautifully simple and
> elegant. Interestingly, quick-sort looks very different from
> merge-sort when implemented in C, but they're fairly similar when
> implemented in cards.
> Bytes? Bits? Arrays? If you want them, you have to first implement them.
> > At a semantic level, byte strings and text strings represent
> > fundamentally different things, as distinct as weights and lengths.
> Or, as I keep running into when I try to mod Team Fortress 2, entities
> and clients and users. They're all represented by the "int" data type,
> and I have to spend an insane amount of effort trying to keep them
> straight - does this function take a user or a client? Oh wait, this
> isn't the user at all, it's the entity ID of that user's gun. But it's
> still just an int... *sigh* SourcePawn (the language in question)
> lacks a type system strong enough to handle this.
> Having different data types for fundamentally different types of data
> is not a weakness. It is a strength.
> > One might as well say that bytes b'@=<\xed\x91hr\xb0' really is the
> > number 29.238 and expect to multiple your name by 12.5 and get your
> > height in seconds.
> >>> No, as a large number of Python3 facilities require str objects as
> >>> arguments. Consider urllib.request.urlopen(), for example, which
> >>> requires a URL to be an str object.
> >
> > That's because URLs are fundamentally text strings.
> >
> > Quick quiz: which of the following are real URLs?
> >
> > (a)  http://правительство.рф <http://xn--80aealotwbjpid2k.xn--p1ai>
> >
> > (b)  http://παράδειγμα.δοκιμή <http://xn--hxajbheg2az3al.xn--jxalpdlp>
> >
> > (c)  http://실례.테스트 <http://xn--9n2bp8q.xn--9t4b11yi5a>
> >
> > (d)  All of the above.
> >
> >
> I had to actually check two of those to be sure they really truly were
> *real* URLs, not merely *correctly formatted* URLs. But yes, URLs are
> fundamentally text. For hysterical raisins, DNS has some oddities to
> it, so when you dive into how these are actually represented, the
> Korean example is actually http://xn--9n2bp8q.xn--9t4b11yi5a - but I
> don't believe there are any byte-based encodings involved. This is
> encoding text using other text, where the encoded form uses an
> extremely restricted alphabet (a-z 0-9 and hyphen).
> ChrisA
> --

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