Python/New/Learn

[o1bigtenor]

On Sat, May 7, 2022 at 3:29 AM Peter J. Holzer <hjp-python at hjp.at> wrote:
>
> On 2022-05-07 14:07:53 +1200, Greg Ewing wrote:
> > On 7/05/22 12:27 pm, Stefan Ram wrote:
> > >    So, one might actually be able to learn the pronunciation
> > >    of a foreign language from text in a book better than from
> > >    an audio tape (or an audio file or a video with sound)!
> >
> > Such books would certainly help, but I don't think there's any
> > substitute for actually hearing the sounds if you want to be
> > able to understand the spoken language.
>
> I think "learning to understand the spoken language" and "learning to
> speak without a (foreign) accent" are two different things. I agree that
> the former needs exposure to actual people talking (preferably in real
> life, where people talk fast, slur endings, omit words, hem and haw,
> talk over each other ...). For learning to speak without an accent, just
> listening (or talking) to native speakers is probably not sufficient for
> the reasons Stefan mentioned plus another one: Outside of a classroom
> people usually won't correct your mistakes unless you say something
> truly incomprehensible or unintentionally funny. However I don't think a
> book is sufficient either: Most people are probably even worse at
> observing the position of their various mouth parts while speaking than
> at listening, so without feedback from a native speaker (preferably a
> trained voice coach) they can't really tell whether they are doing it
> right.
>
>

Hmmm - - - - fascinating discussion on language learning.
I would suggest that adults CAN learn other languages.
One factor that hasn't been mentioned is the musicality of
the individual. I added 3 languages, to varying degrees, as
an adult and have done some functioning in about 5 more
than the 3 that I developed through childhood and early youth.
the use of the IPA (international phonetics alphabet) was
encouraged in my formal studies, to be done on my own
time and fashion, and its use was very very helpful for
much in this area.

As far as learning to speak without an accent - - - that does not
necessarily coincide with actual knowledge - - - imo there is
a definite difference between a language 'in the ear' and 'in the
mind'. I have found each language to feel different in both the
mouth AND in the brain (and have found the differences quite
fascinating).

Thank you for very very interesting discussions - - - lol - - - which
perhaps should have early on be relabelled as OT - - - grin!

Pace