From cyberco at media2b.net Sun Apr 1 22:35:12 2012 From: cyberco at media2b.net (Berco Beute) Date: Sun, 1 Apr 2012 22:35:12 +0200 Subject: [python-nl] Pygrunn 11 mei 2012 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hear! Hear! Other high profile speakers are Armin Ronacher (Flask, werkzeug, jinja, etc.) and Miguel Araujo (Django uni-forms). But the most important part is of course hanging out with peers. And don't forget that the 25 euro is solely for covering the costs of the food and an already legendary t-shirt. Days chock-full of pyhon/geek/hacker fun don't come much cheaper than that! Still in doubt? Ask someone who visited a previous edition. Hope to see you on May 11th! Cheers, Berco Beute Paylogic On Fri, Mar 30, 2012 at 11:29 AM, Jacob Klaassen < klaassen at goldmund-wyldebeast-wunderliebe.com> wrote: > Hi all, > > Like last year, this year again a Python conference held in Groningen, > under the name Pygrunn. On Friday May 11th > there are about 20 speakers, with keynote speaker Michael Bayer > (SQLAlchemy). > You can register on http://www.pygrunn.nl. The costs are 25 euro. > > Cheers, > > Jacob Klaassen > Goldmund, Wyldebeast & Wunderliebe > > > > _______________________________________________ > Python-nl mailing list > Python-nl at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-nl > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From reinout at vanrees.org Tue Apr 3 01:33:30 2012 From: reinout at vanrees.org (Reinout van Rees) Date: Tue, 03 Apr 2012 01:33:30 +0200 Subject: [python-nl] Pygrunn 11 mei 2012 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On 01-04-12 22:35, Berco Beute wrote: > Hear! Hear! > Other high profile speakers are Armin Ronacher (Flask, werkzeug, jinja, > etc.) and Miguel Araujo (Django uni-forms). But the most important part > is of course hanging out with peers. And don't forget that the 25 euro > is solely for covering the costs of the food and an already legendary > t-shirt. Days chock-full of pyhon/geek/hacker fun don't come much > cheaper than that! Still in doubt? Ask someone who visited a previous > edition. From a previous visitor: a) Yes, the tshirt really is great (at least, it was last year). b) They've got a format that ought to be copy/pasted by every organizer: 15 minutes of break between every talk. Every. So you've got plenty of time to switch rooms and to grab a coffee and to chat to some people and to talk about the last talk. The relaxing effect it has on the whole day is simply astounding. So you get a technical day full of input AND it is relaxing. Now where do you get that combination?!? Reinout -- Reinout van Rees http://reinout.vanrees.org/ reinout at vanrees.org http://www.nelen-schuurmans.nl/ "If you're not sure what to do, make something. -- Paul Graham" From reinout at vanrees.org Tue Apr 3 01:52:00 2012 From: reinout at vanrees.org (Reinout van Rees) Date: Tue, 03 Apr 2012 01:52:00 +0200 Subject: [python-nl] Pygrunn 11 mei 2012 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On 03-04-12 01:33, Reinout van Rees wrote: > On 01-04-12 22:35, Berco Beute wrote: >> Hear! Hear! > > From a previous visitor: Actually, I really liked pygrunn a lot last year. So here's some extra PR as encouragement :-) http://reinout.vanrees.org/weblog/2012/04/03/pygrunn.html Reinout -- Reinout van Rees http://reinout.vanrees.org/ reinout at vanrees.org http://www.nelen-schuurmans.nl/ "If you're not sure what to do, make something. -- Paul Graham" From wim at go2people.nl Mon Apr 9 17:37:12 2012 From: wim at go2people.nl (Wim Feijen) Date: Mon, 9 Apr 2012 17:37:12 +0200 Subject: [python-nl] Django Meetup woensdag 18 april Message-ID: Beste mensen, Graag nodigen we jullie uit voor de eerstkomende Django Meetup op woensdag 18 april. Het belooft een interessante meetup te worden, want al vier van de presentatieslots zijn gevuld. Voor het complete programma zie: http://wiki.python.org/moin/DjangoMeetingNL/DM/ABC120418 Als je ook wilt komen, kun je je opgeven via de wiki, of via de Meetup pagina op: http://www.meetup.com/Django-Vereniging/events/48728372/ De eerste presentaties starten om 19:30 uur, je bent al welkom vanaf 19:00 om even te socializen en bij te kletsen met alle andere programmeurs. Wij zorgen voor drinken en dit alles is kosteloos dankzij de sponsoring van de American Book Center en de Django Vereniging. Voor meer details, zie de wiki. Groeten van Wim --- English version: Please feel free to join us at the next Django meetup, we are very happy to host you and drinks are sponsored. For more information, see: http://wiki.python.org/moin/DjangoMeetingNL/DM/ABC120418 Best regards, Wim -- Wim Feijen Algemeen directeur wim at go2people.nl 06 11113316 Go2People Websites Keizersgracht 8 1015 CN Amsterdam 020 7370378 www.go2people.nl From wim at go2people.nl Wed Apr 18 11:35:18 2012 From: wim at go2people.nl (Wim Feijen) Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2012 11:35:18 +0200 Subject: [python-nl] Vanavond Django Meetup Message-ID: Beste mensen, Niet vergeten: vanavond is de Django Meetup: http://wiki.python.org/moin/DjangoMeetingNL/DM/ABC120418 En, er is een presentatieslot vrijgekomen. Dus als jij een goed onderwerp hebt en dat in vijf minuten kunt presenteren, neem dan die kans en vul je naam in op de wiki. Groeten van Wim -- Wim Feijen Algemeen directeur wim at go2people.nl 06 11113316 Go2People Websites Keizersgracht 8 1015 CN Amsterdam 020 7370378 www.go2people.nl -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From remco at maykinmedia.nl Thu Apr 19 10:39:57 2012 From: remco at maykinmedia.nl (Remco Wendt) Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2012 10:39:57 +0200 Subject: [python-nl] Presentations slides Message-ID: Hello all, Thanks again for an interesting and inspiring Django Meetup. You can find the slides of my presentation 'Down the rabbit hole, profiling your Python code' on slideshare: http://www.slideshare.net/sshanx/down-the-rabbit-hole-profiling-in-django/. Of course Reinout also made notes, which you can find here: http://reinout.vanrees.org/weblog/2012/04/18/profiling-python.html Next meetup will be the 4th of July. Hope to see you all there! And do remember that anything interesting you discover, the classical A-HA erlebnis, could be great material for a lightning talk! Also worth noting: on May 11th is the Pygrunn conference in Groningen. Featuring Michael Bayer (author of sqlalchemy) as keynote speaker and also Armin Ronachere, see: http://www.pygrunn.nl/ I'm attending and speaker, so hope to see you all there! Cheers, Remco -- Maykin Media Herengracht 416, 1017 BZ Amsterdam tel.: +31 (0)20 753 05 23 mob.: +31 (0)6 187 967 06 http://www.maykinmedia.nl -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From a.esselink at gmail.com Thu Apr 19 16:10:09 2012 From: a.esselink at gmail.com (Dexter) Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2012 16:10:09 +0200 Subject: [python-nl] getitem with slices?? Message-ID: Hi, So they're re-factoring python a bit, some backwards (incompatible) changes to fix certain inconsistencies. And I also knew that some other inconsistencies aren't gonna be changed, because of backwards incompatibility. But I didn't know that they were also introducing inconsistencies, which is also breaking backwards compatibility. getslice is being depricated, if you wanna use that, you should use getitem in p3k. So now, you should check if your argument is an index or a slice. Can anyone explain why? Greetings, Dexter -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From pepijndevos at gmail.com Thu Apr 19 16:51:09 2012 From: pepijndevos at gmail.com (Pepijn de Vos) Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2012 16:51:09 +0200 Subject: [python-nl] getitem with slices?? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <0BB9A9DB-E5BE-4179-9F17-027A6156E789@gmail.com> No explanation, but this is one aspect of "pythonic" that has been bothering me of late. The general consensus is that you should use duck typing, and in general not have items of a different type in one place. So the "pythonic" solution would be to have getslice, I would think, but if that is not available, the "pythonic" thing to do is something like: try: foo.slicy_thing() except TypeError: foo.number_thing() IMO, exceptions are for exceptional occasions, not for disguised if statements. But, that's the way Python seems to work. Pepijn On Apr 19, 2012, at 4:10 PM, Dexter wrote: > Hi, > > So they're re-factoring python a bit, some backwards (incompatible) changes to fix certain inconsistencies. > And I also knew that some other inconsistencies aren't gonna be changed, because of backwards incompatibility. > But I didn't know that they were also introducing inconsistencies, which is also breaking backwards compatibility. > > getslice is being depricated, if you wanna use that, you should use getitem in p3k. So now, you should check if your argument is an index or a slice. > Can anyone explain why? > > Greetings, Dexter > _______________________________________________ > Python-nl mailing list > Python-nl at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-nl From reinout at vanrees.org Thu Apr 19 16:51:23 2012 From: reinout at vanrees.org (Reinout van Rees) Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2012 16:51:23 +0200 Subject: [python-nl] Presentations slides In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On 19-04-12 10:39, Remco Wendt wrote: > Next meetup will be the 4th of July. Hope to see you all there! And do > remember that anything interesting you discover, the classical A-HA > erlebnis, could be great material for a lightning talk! And... there should be a Python meeting again somewhere in May. Any takers? Reinout -- Reinout van Rees http://reinout.vanrees.org/ reinout at vanrees.org http://www.nelen-schuurmans.nl/ "If you're not sure what to do, make something. -- Paul Graham" From ronaldoussoren at mac.com Thu Apr 19 17:10:10 2012 From: ronaldoussoren at mac.com (Ronald Oussoren) Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2012 17:10:10 +0200 Subject: [python-nl] getitem with slices?? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On 19 Apr, 2012, at 16:10, Dexter wrote: > Hi, > > So they're re-factoring python a bit, some backwards (incompatible) changes to fix certain inconsistencies. > And I also knew that some other inconsistencies aren't gonna be changed, because of backwards incompatibility. > But I didn't know that they were also introducing inconsistencies, which is also breaking backwards compatibility. > > getslice is being depricated, if you wanna use that, you should use getitem in p3k. So now, you should check if your argument is an index or a slice. > Can anyone explain why? __getslice__ doesn't support extended slicing (obj[start:stop:step]) Ronald -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: smime.p7s Type: application/pkcs7-signature Size: 4788 bytes Desc: not available URL: From a.esselink at gmail.com Thu Apr 19 19:06:21 2012 From: a.esselink at gmail.com (Dexter) Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2012 19:06:21 +0200 Subject: [python-nl] getitem with slices?? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I've noticed, but it just seems like they are trying to do multiple things with one function, which doesn't look like to be in the zen of python. . I'd reckon they should've supported extended slicing with the __getslice__ method. On Thu, Apr 19, 2012 at 5:10 PM, Ronald Oussoren wrote: > > On 19 Apr, 2012, at 16:10, Dexter wrote: > > > Hi, > > > > So they're re-factoring python a bit, some backwards (incompatible) > changes to fix certain inconsistencies. > > And I also knew that some other inconsistencies aren't gonna be changed, > because of backwards incompatibility. > > But I didn't know that they were also introducing inconsistencies, which > is also breaking backwards compatibility. > > > > getslice is being depricated, if you wanna use that, you should use > getitem in p3k. So now, you should check if your argument is an index or a > slice. > > Can anyone explain why? > > __getslice__ doesn't support extended slicing (obj[start:stop:step]) > > Ronald > > > _______________________________________________ > Python-nl mailing list > Python-nl at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-nl > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dirkjan at ochtman.nl Thu Apr 19 19:28:58 2012 From: dirkjan at ochtman.nl (Dirkjan Ochtman) Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2012 19:28:58 +0200 Subject: [python-nl] getitem with slices?? In-Reply-To: <0BB9A9DB-E5BE-4179-9F17-027A6156E789@gmail.com> References: <0BB9A9DB-E5BE-4179-9F17-027A6156E789@gmail.com> Message-ID: On Thu, Apr 19, 2012 at 16:51, Pepijn de Vos wrote: > No explanation, but this is one aspect of "pythonic" that has been bothering me of late. > > The general consensus is that you should use duck typing, and in general not have items of a different type in one place. > > So the "pythonic" solution would be to have getslice, I would think, but if that is not available, the "pythonic" thing to do is something like: > > try: > ? ?foo.slicy_thing() > except TypeError: > ? ?foo.number_thing() > > IMO, exceptions are for exceptional occasions, not for disguised if statements. But, that's the way Python seems to work. I'm not sure what you're getting at here, but I'm pretty sure having an isinstance() call here and there is perfectly Pythonic. Look Before You Leap has its place, just like Easier to Ask Forgiveness than Permission. I googled and annotated the source a bit and found mailing list threads from when it was deprecated, but there was no clear rationale. Still, it's been deprecated a long time, this happened in July 2000, so the feeling that this is something recent isn't really justified. Also, since __getitem__() could just as easily return a sequence as a single item, it seems like there isn't really much point to having separate things for this, and I find the solution with passing slice() objects to __getitem__() quite elegant. Cheers, Dirkjan From spaans at fox-it.com Fri Apr 20 10:04:02 2012 From: spaans at fox-it.com (Jasper Spaans) Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2012 10:04:02 +0200 Subject: [python-nl] Presentations slides In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1CED409804E2164C8104F9E623B08B9012CBC5F149@FOXDFT02.FOX.local> Like... Grunn? (I guess that event conflicts a bit with the regular schedule). (And there are currently two empty seats in my car doing Delft-Den Haag-Groningen and back that day, so if you need a ride and live along that route, let me know.) -----Original Message----- From: python-nl-bounces+spaans=fox-it.com at python.org [mailto:python-nl-bounces+spaans=fox-it.com at python.org] On Behalf Of Reinout van Rees Sent: 19 April 2012 16:51 To: python-nl at python.org Subject: Re: [python-nl] Presentations slides On 19-04-12 10:39, Remco Wendt wrote: > Next meetup will be the 4th of July. Hope to see you all there! And do > remember that anything interesting you discover, the classical A-HA > erlebnis, could be great material for a lightning talk! And... there should be a Python meeting again somewhere in May. Any takers? Reinout -- Reinout van Rees http://reinout.vanrees.org/ reinout at vanrees.org http://www.nelen-schuurmans.nl/ "If you're not sure what to do, make something. -- Paul Graham" _______________________________________________ Python-nl mailing list Python-nl at python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-nl From jeroen at dekkers.ch Fri Apr 20 18:28:30 2012 From: jeroen at dekkers.ch (Jeroen Dekkers) Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2012 18:28:30 +0200 Subject: [python-nl] Djangocon.eu samen reizen / hotelkamer delen Message-ID: <87pqb2mkpd.wl%jeroen@dekkers.ch> Zijn er mensen die naar djangocon.eu gaan en interesse hebben om samen te reizen en/of een hotelkamer te delen? Ik ben van plan met de nachttrein te gaan, vooral omdat het veel minder gedoe is dan vliegen. Je stapt gewoon 's avonds op Amsterdam, Utrecht of Arnhem in en stapt de andere ochtend midden in Z?rich weer uit, in plaats op een vliegveld compleet buiten de stad. Heb het eerder gedaan en het is me toen goed bevallen. En de kosten vallen ook wel mee, op dit moment 178 euro voor retourtje in een cabine met 6 bedden. En het is ook nog een stuk beter voor het milieu. Wat betreft hotelkamer ben ik van plan Etap City-West te boeken. Dat zit dichtbij zowel de conferentielocatie als de sprintlocatie en is goed betaalbaar (~75 euro/nacht op dit moment). Aangezien die prijzen alleen maar stijgen, ben ik van plan uiterlijk halverwege volgende week alles te gaan boeken. Groeten, Jeroen Dekkers From kuno at frob.nl Fri Apr 20 22:26:41 2012 From: kuno at frob.nl (Kuno Woudt) Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2012 15:26:41 -0500 Subject: [python-nl] Presentations slides In-Reply-To: <1CED409804E2164C8104F9E623B08B9012CBC5F149@FOXDFT02.FOX.local> References: <1CED409804E2164C8104F9E623B08B9012CBC5F149@FOXDFT02.FOX.local> Message-ID: <4F91C681.7020705@frob.nl> Hello! On 20/04/12 03:04, Jasper Spaans wrote: > Like... Grunn? (I guess that event conflicts a bit with the regular schedule). > > (And there are currently two empty seats in my car doing Delft-Den Haag-Groningen and back that day, so if you need a ride and live along that route, let me know.) I'm interested, however I cannot commit to it as I will be arriving in the Netherlands on may 10th, and I may be too jet-lagged to be able to go to PyGrunn. (I live in Rotterdam, which seems close enough to Delft :). -- kuno / warp. From reinout at vanrees.org Sat Apr 21 21:46:43 2012 From: reinout at vanrees.org (Reinout van Rees) Date: Sat, 21 Apr 2012 21:46:43 +0200 Subject: [python-nl] Djangocon.eu samen reizen / hotelkamer delen In-Reply-To: <87pqb2mkpd.wl%jeroen@dekkers.ch> References: <87pqb2mkpd.wl%jeroen@dekkers.ch> Message-ID: On 20-04-12 18:28, Jeroen Dekkers wrote: > Ik ben van plan met de nachttrein te gaan, vooral omdat het veel > minder gedoe is dan vliegen. Dagtrein! En dan niet de rechtstreekse via de hogesnelheidslijn naar Frankfurt, maar een uurtje langer, vanaf Keulen via Koblenz langs de Rijn. Loreley enzo. Prachtig! Ik geniet nu al :-) Reinout -- Reinout van Rees http://reinout.vanrees.org/ reinout at vanrees.org http://www.nelen-schuurmans.nl/ "If you're not sure what to do, make something. -- Paul Graham" From reinout at vanrees.org Sat Apr 21 22:06:53 2012 From: reinout at vanrees.org (Reinout van Rees) Date: Sat, 21 Apr 2012 22:06:53 +0200 Subject: [python-nl] Next python meeting: Utrecht early september? Message-ID: Hi, Someone mentioned that pygrunn.nl in May is a perfect alternative to a Python meeting in May. I agree. So that means we should arrange a next meeting late august/early september. OK if I arrange our meeting room for early september? It is dead smack in the center of Utrecht, so easy to reach by public transport. We had a meeting there in january 2011. Reinout -- Reinout van Rees http://reinout.vanrees.org/ reinout at vanrees.org http://www.nelen-schuurmans.nl/ "If you're not sure what to do, make something. -- Paul Graham" From reinout at vanrees.org Sat Apr 21 22:20:02 2012 From: reinout at vanrees.org (Reinout van Rees) Date: Sat, 21 Apr 2012 22:20:02 +0200 Subject: [python-nl] django/python meeting split? Message-ID: Hi, Personally, I wonder if we should be a bit more vigilant regarding the django/python split. We have django meetings (always in Amsterdam) and python meetings (all over the place). But the last django meeting was about 50% generic Python content, at least it seemed that way to me. If I brainstorm about it, these are my thoughts: - Do we need the django/python split? Django *is* very popular, so it has a separate market. But then we should safeguard the Django content a bit more. - Does this mean no django content at the python meetings? - Hey, I haven't heard a plone talk in 2 years time. - When was the last Arnhem/Veenendaal/Rotterdam/The Hague meeting? Reinout -- Reinout van Rees http://reinout.vanrees.org/ reinout at vanrees.org http://www.nelen-schuurmans.nl/ "If you're not sure what to do, make something. -- Paul Graham" From faassen at startifact.com Sun Apr 22 17:45:18 2012 From: faassen at startifact.com (Martijn Faassen) Date: Sun, 22 Apr 2012 17:45:18 +0200 Subject: [python-nl] django/python meeting split? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi there, Reminds me of Zope way back when. Zope ended up being seen a a community isolated from the rest of the Python community. On the other hand, I'm not that interested in PUN meetings where, each time, half the time goes to something Django-specific. Regards, Martijn From dwight at dwightgunning.com Mon Apr 23 14:27:17 2012 From: dwight at dwightgunning.com (Dwight Gunning) Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2012 14:27:17 +0200 Subject: [python-nl] Python-nl Digest, Vol 95, Issue 11 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I'm not a regular so take it or leave it... I believe it's helpful to think in terms of the topic and the content that is presented. In terms of topics, Django is a subset of Python so it seems fine to me that some non-django-specific topics appear in the Django Meetups. Particularly fundaments like coding style and how to use a debugger/profiler. Having said that, one would probably expect is that presenters at the Django Meetup deliver content that explicitly links the general topic to Django. Without being overly critical (as I thought they were high quality) here are suggestions on how I'd do this for two talks I saw: - How to use the profiler to investigate and optimise a Django view - How to setup pylint to ignore the core Django codebase and 3rd party packages I wouldn't mess with the formula too much as judging by attendance it seems to be working. A tiny bit of up front screening and coaching for the presenters and their topic is probably all that's needed. Regards, Dwight -- Dwight Gunning Amsterdam, The Netherlands. +31 (0)6 2363 8344 | Twitter/Skype: dwightgunning dwight at dwightgunning.com | http://dwightgunning.com On 23 April 2012 12:00, wrote: > Send Python-nl mailing list submissions to > python-nl at python.org > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-nl > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > python-nl-request at python.org > > You can reach the person managing the list at > python-nl-owner at python.org > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of Python-nl digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Re: django/python meeting split? (Martijn Faassen) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Sun, 22 Apr 2012 17:45:18 +0200 > From: Martijn Faassen > To: Dutch Python developers and users > Subject: Re: [python-nl] django/python meeting split? > Message-ID: > > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > > Hi there, > > Reminds me of Zope way back when. Zope ended up being seen a a > community isolated from the rest of the Python community. > > On the other hand, I'm not that interested in PUN meetings where, each > time, half the time goes to something Django-specific. > > Regards, > > Martijn > > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > Python-nl mailing list > Python-nl at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-nl > > > End of Python-nl Digest, Vol 95, Issue 11 > ***************************************** > ------------- volgend deel ------------ Een HTML-bijlage is gescrubt... URL: From maarten at fourdigits.nl Wed Apr 25 10:57:06 2012 From: maarten at fourdigits.nl (Maarten Kling) Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2012 10:57:06 +0200 Subject: [python-nl] django/python meeting split? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4F97BC62.5010801@fourdigits.nl> Hi Reinout and others, 10-11-12 October the Plone Conference 2012 will be in Arnhem. So if you want to see a Plone talk join us :) Talk submission will open very soon, it would be great if there where some python or related python project submissions. At this point we got the training submission open, if someone is interested in giving a (international) Python training, please submit you training. Regards, Maarten www.ploneconf.org www.ploneconf.org/news/training-submission-now-open On 4/21/12 10:20 PM, Reinout van Rees wrote: > Hi, > > Personally, I wonder if we should be a bit more vigilant regarding the > django/python split. We have django meetings (always in Amsterdam) and > python meetings (all over the place). > > But the last django meeting was about 50% generic Python content, at > least it seemed that way to me. > > If I brainstorm about it, these are my thoughts: > > - Do we need the django/python split? Django *is* very popular, so it > has a separate market. But then we should safeguard the Django content > a bit more. > > - Does this mean no django content at the python meetings? > > - Hey, I haven't heard a plone talk in 2 years time. > > - When was the last Arnhem/Veenendaal/Rotterdam/The Hague meeting? > > > > Reinout > -- Maarten Kling http://fourdigits.nl/mensen/maarten-kling Four Digits BV http://www.fourdigits.nl Willemsplein 44, 6811 KD, Arnhem tel: +31 (0)26 4422700 fax: +31 (0)84 2206117 KVK 091621370000 BTW 8161.22.234.B01 From remco at maykinmedia.nl Wed Apr 25 16:58:36 2012 From: remco at maykinmedia.nl (Remco Wendt) Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2012 16:58:36 +0200 Subject: [python-nl] Presentations slides In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hello again, Just saw that a new memory profiling tool was released for python: http://fseoane.net/blog/2012/line-by-line-report-of-memory-usage/ Even though the idea is nice, the implementation starts a 'ps' in a subprocess for every line in a function that is decorated. Which is less elegant and something to keep in mind when using this :) Remco On Thu, Apr 19, 2012 at 10:39, Remco Wendt wrote: > Hello all, > > Thanks again for an interesting and inspiring Django Meetup. You can find > the slides of my presentation 'Down the rabbit hole, profiling your > Python code' on slideshare: > http://www.slideshare.net/sshanx/down-the-rabbit-hole-profiling-in-django/. > Of course Reinout also made notes, which you can find here: > http://reinout.vanrees.org/weblog/2012/04/18/profiling-python.html > > Next meetup will be the 4th of July. Hope to see you all there! And do > remember that anything interesting you discover, the classical A-HA > erlebnis, could be great material for a lightning talk! > > Also worth noting: on May 11th is the Pygrunn conference in Groningen. > Featuring Michael Bayer (author of sqlalchemy) as keynote speaker and also > Armin Ronachere, see: http://www.pygrunn.nl/ I'm attending and speaker, > so hope to see you all there! > > Cheers, > Remco > -- > Maykin Media > Herengracht 416, 1017 BZ Amsterdam > tel.: +31 (0)20 753 05 23 > mob.: +31 (0)6 187 967 06 > http://www.maykinmedia.nl > > > -- Maykin Media Herengracht 416, 1017 BZ Amsterdam tel.: +31 (0)20 753 05 23 mob.: +31 (0)6 187 967 06 http://www.maykinmedia.nl -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From remco at maykinmedia.nl Fri Apr 27 11:24:30 2012 From: remco at maykinmedia.nl (Remco Wendt) Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2012 11:24:30 +0200 Subject: [python-nl] django/python meeting split? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Sat, Apr 21, 2012 at 22:20, Reinout van Rees wrote: > Hi, > > Personally, I wonder if we should be a bit more vigilant regarding the > django/python split. We have django meetings (always in Amsterdam) and > python meetings (all over the place). > It always good to evaluate choices from the past every now and then. So thanks for starting this. Personally I wouldn't mind in having more Python meetups where there is room for interesting Django talks, as there is room for interesting talks about other cool (web) frameworks. But then again there actually tend to be a slightly larger audience at the Django meetups, strangely enough. So I would be interested to find out what other people think about this. Also we decided on this because we didn't want to bore the non-Django python crowd with a lot of nitty gritty details about the Django framework. Sure there is interesting stuff in Django for all Pythonauts. But that only goes so far. And like you mention yourself Django in itself has a large user base. > But the last django meeting was about 50% generic Python content, at least > it seemed that way to me. > That sure has a reference to my presentation, since someone made that remark already during the questions :) My definition of a good presentation for a meetup is: it should be of interest to the majority of the audience. So sure, with my presentation about profiling I didn't show a line of code from the Django code base, but is the concept of code/memory profiling of interest to most Django developers? I think it is. I'm also going to give this presentation, in an improved form, at the PyGrunn conference, so there I'll talk to the general Python population ;) Also, and unfortunately, we still don't have the luxury of choosing from a broad range of different presentations. I would love for more people to tell about what they are doing, and every meetup I make an effort in trying to get people enthousiastic about sharing their knowledge and insights with the rest of the community. But only a very small number of people actually decide to do a presentation in the end. > If I brainstorm about it, these are my thoughts: > > - Do we need the django/python split? Django *is* very popular, so it has > a separate market. But then we should safeguard the Django content a bit > more. > Safeguarding content is a luxury for when there are enough presentations :) What do you think of my definition? > - Does this mean no django content at the python meetings? > Personally I don't really see things this strict. > - Hey, I haven't heard a plone talk in 2 years time. > > - When was the last Arnhem/Veenendaal/Rotterdam/**The Hague meeting? The ABC treehouse is an easy deal for us. I've also not been very active in asking around and scouting for new meetup locations of late, so that is partially me to blame. If people would love to host a python meetup in a different city please let me know. Cheers, Remco -- Maykin Media Herengracht 416, 1017 BZ Amsterdam tel.: +31 (0)20 753 05 23 mob.: +31 (0)6 187 967 06 http://www.maykinmedia.nl -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From faassen at startifact.com Fri Apr 27 11:39:33 2012 From: faassen at startifact.com (Martijn Faassen) Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2012 11:39:33 +0200 Subject: [python-nl] django/python meeting split? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hey, One problem I have is that what I've been doing mostly in recent years that's interesting to talk about concerns JavaScript. I guess that could be more part of a Django meeting than a Python meeting almost. :) Just to muddy the waters some more! Regards, Martijn From dirkjan at ochtman.nl Fri Apr 27 11:42:41 2012 From: dirkjan at ochtman.nl (Dirkjan Ochtman) Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2012 11:42:41 +0200 Subject: [python-nl] django/python meeting split? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Fri, Apr 27, 2012 at 11:39, Martijn Faassen wrote: > One problem I have is that what I've been doing mostly in recent years > that's interesting to talk about concerns JavaScript. I guess that > could be more part of a Django meeting than a Python meeting almost. > :) There are those of us who do Python-based web development without Django... I stubbornly keep writing bare-WSGI apps, and perhaps there are some Flask and/or Pyramid users around. So perhaps the general sentiment is that Django venues are more web-focused than other Python-related gatherings? Cheers, Dirkjan From remco at maykinmedia.nl Fri Apr 27 11:46:37 2012 From: remco at maykinmedia.nl (Remco Wendt) Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2012 11:46:37 +0200 Subject: [python-nl] django/python meeting split? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Fri, Apr 27, 2012 at 11:42, Dirkjan Ochtman wrote: > On Fri, Apr 27, 2012 at 11:39, Martijn Faassen > wrote: > > One problem I have is that what I've been doing mostly in recent years > > that's interesting to talk about concerns JavaScript. I guess that > > could be more part of a Django meeting than a Python meeting almost. > > :) > > There are those of us who do Python-based web development without > Django... I stubbornly keep writing bare-WSGI apps, and perhaps there > are some Flask and/or Pyramid users around. > I would love to hear more about that! To be honest. > So perhaps the general sentiment is that Django venues are more > web-focused than other Python-related gatherings? > That's a nice way of putting it :) Remco -- Maykin Media Herengracht 416, 1017 BZ Amsterdam tel.: +31 (0)20 753 05 23 mob.: +31 (0)6 187 967 06 http://www.maykinmedia.nl -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From wichert at wiggy.net Fri Apr 27 11:36:35 2012 From: wichert at wiggy.net (Wichert Akkerman) Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2012 11:36:35 +0200 Subject: [python-nl] django/python meeting split? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4F9A68A3.40000@wiggy.net> On 04/27/2012 11:24 AM, Remco Wendt wrote: > On Sat, Apr 21, 2012 at 22:20, Reinout van Rees > wrote: > > Hi, > > Personally, I wonder if we should be a bit more vigilant regarding > the django/python split. We have django meetings (always in > Amsterdam) and python meetings (all over the place). > > > It always good to evaluate choices from the past every now and then. > So thanks for starting this. Personally I wouldn't mind in having more > Python meetups where there is room for interesting Django talks, as > there is room for interesting talks about other cool (web) frameworks. > But then again there actually tend to be a slightly larger audience at > the Django meetups, strangely enough. So I would be interested to find > out what other people think about this. Persoonlijk heb ik weinig interesse in Django (meetings). Mogelijk is ook een factor dat Django bijeenkomsten op een handigere plek zijn voor mensen dan de laatste python-nl bijeenkomsten en daardoor een hogere opkomst hebben? > Also, and unfortunately, we still don't have the luxury of choosing > from a broad range of different presentations. I would love for more > people to tell about what they are doing, and every meetup I make an > effort in trying to get people enthousiastic about sharing their > knowledge and insights with the rest of the community. But only a very > small number of people actually decide to do a presentation in the end. Ik wil best een keer een praatje geven over wat we bij 2Style4You doen (zie websites als styletoyou.nl, woxingwoyi.payeasy.com.tw en kledingadvies.neck.nl). Afhankelijk van het publiek kan dat geheel niet-technische zijn, bijvoorbeeld over mode of affiliate netwerken, of juist diep technisch over het maken van C++/Python libraries, of meer puur python over hoe we Pyramid gebruiken, overpeinzingen over form libraries, etc. Wichert. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From faassen at startifact.com Fri Apr 27 12:01:30 2012 From: faassen at startifact.com (Martijn Faassen) Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2012 12:01:30 +0200 Subject: [python-nl] django/python meeting split? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hey, On Fri, Apr 27, 2012 at 11:42 AM, Dirkjan Ochtman wrote: > On Fri, Apr 27, 2012 at 11:39, Martijn Faassen wrote: >> One problem I have is that what I've been doing mostly in recent years >> that's interesting to talk about concerns JavaScript. I guess that >> could be more part of a Django meeting than a Python meeting almost. >> :) > > There are those of us who do Python-based web development without > Django... Yeah, like me, I've been using Zope in various incarnations for more than a decade now, with a bit of WSGI stuff thrown in. :) > I stubbornly keep writing bare-WSGI apps, and perhaps there > are some Flask and/or Pyramid users around. > > So perhaps the general sentiment is that Django venues are more > web-focused than other Python-related gatherings? What could be done is designated some meetings python-web. If all the content happens to be Django + a bit of Python, so be it, but if I wanted to talk about Obviel I could do it too then (even though that's still JavaScript, not Python..). But perhaps that wouldn't attract enough of the Django crowd. It reminds me of us renaming the Zope track at EuroPython to the 'web track'. Regards, Martijn From dirkjan at ochtman.nl Fri Apr 27 12:44:16 2012 From: dirkjan at ochtman.nl (Dirkjan Ochtman) Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2012 12:44:16 +0200 Subject: [python-nl] django/python meeting split? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Fri, Apr 27, 2012 at 11:46, Remco Wendt wrote: >> There are those of us who do Python-based web development without >> Django... I stubbornly keep writing bare-WSGI apps, and perhaps there >> are some Flask and/or Pyramid users around. > > I would love to hear more about that! To be honest. About writing bare-WSGI apps, or what other people use for webdev? On Fri, Apr 27, 2012 at 12:01, Martijn Faassen wrote: > What could be done is designated some meetings python-web. If all the > content happens to be Django + a bit of Python, so be it, but if I > wanted to talk about Obviel I could do it too then (even though that's > still JavaScript, not Python..). But perhaps that wouldn't attract > enough of the Django crowd. It reminds me of us renaming the Zope > track at EuroPython to the 'web track'. Sounds good to me. Like Wichert, I don't care much for Django, but I generally try to keep up with web technology. Cheers, Dirkjan From b.leskes at gmail.com Sat Apr 28 08:26:00 2012 From: b.leskes at gmail.com (Boaz Leskes) Date: Sat, 28 Apr 2012 08:26:00 +0200 Subject: [python-nl] django/python meeting split? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: For my part I +1 Martjin's idea to include all web-related talks, regardless of the underlying platform. Even though I primarily use Django, I'm still very interested in hearing about any cool/useful/inspiring technologies. Next to technologies you can directly use with Django (like CoffeeScript : http://reinout.vanrees.org/weblog/2012/01/18/pun-lightning-talks.html ), I it is very interesting to see other approaches to the same problems. Personally, I learn a lot from that and it helps me improve the way I use Django and sometimes give me ideas of how to extend django to do something it doesn't do out of the box. I think this should be encouraged and welcomed. Cheers, Boaz On Fri, Apr 27, 2012 at 12:44 PM, Dirkjan Ochtman wrote: > On Fri, Apr 27, 2012 at 11:46, Remco Wendt wrote: > >> There are those of us who do Python-based web development without > >> Django... I stubbornly keep writing bare-WSGI apps, and perhaps there > >> are some Flask and/or Pyramid users around. > > > > I would love to hear more about that! To be honest. > > About writing bare-WSGI apps, or what other people use for webdev? > > On Fri, Apr 27, 2012 at 12:01, Martijn Faassen > wrote: > > What could be done is designated some meetings python-web. If all the > > content happens to be Django + a bit of Python, so be it, but if I > > wanted to talk about Obviel I could do it too then (even though that's > > still JavaScript, not Python..). But perhaps that wouldn't attract > > enough of the Django crowd. It reminds me of us renaming the Zope > > track at EuroPython to the 'web track'. > > Sounds good to me. Like Wichert, I don't care much for Django, but I > generally try to keep up with web technology. > > Cheers, > > Dirkjan > _______________________________________________ > Python-nl mailing list > Python-nl at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-nl > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From reinout at vanrees.org Sun Apr 29 22:03:07 2012 From: reinout at vanrees.org (Reinout van Rees) Date: Sun, 29 Apr 2012 22:03:07 +0200 Subject: [python-nl] django/python meeting split? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On 27-04-12 11:24, Remco Wendt wrote: > But the last django meeting was about 50% generic Python content, at > least it seemed that way to me. > > > That sure has a reference to my presentation, since someone made that > remark already during the questions :) I loved the presentation, but just two extra Django-related slided would have made it more specific (if only for PR reasons). Your talk *was* very applicable to my day-to-day Django work :-) > Safeguarding content is a luxury for when there are enough presentations True. > > - When was the last Arnhem/Veenendaal/Rotterdam/__The Hague meeting? > > > The ABC treehouse is an easy deal for us. I've also not been very active > in asking around and scouting for new meetup locations of late, so that > is partially me to blame. If people would love to host a python meetup > in a different city please let me know. Consider september taken by Utrecht (as I already suggested). I only have to nail the specific date :-) Reinout -- Reinout van Rees http://reinout.vanrees.org/ reinout at vanrees.org http://www.nelen-schuurmans.nl/ "If you're not sure what to do, make something. -- Paul Graham" From reinout at vanrees.org Sun Apr 29 22:06:42 2012 From: reinout at vanrees.org (Reinout van Rees) Date: Sun, 29 Apr 2012 22:06:42 +0200 Subject: [python-nl] django/python meeting split? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On 27-04-12 11:42, Dirkjan Ochtman wrote: > So perhaps the general sentiment is that Django venues are more > web-focused than other Python-related gatherings? By nature, django is all-web, of course, so by definition it wins. But the python meetings have a healthy web content. Plone's layout mechanism, webpy, stuff like that. I'd personally like a pyramid talk at the september Python meeting (Wichert, how does Utrecht sound?) Reinout -- Reinout van Rees http://reinout.vanrees.org/ reinout at vanrees.org http://www.nelen-schuurmans.nl/ "If you're not sure what to do, make something. -- Paul Graham" From wichert at wiggy.net Mon Apr 30 12:03:56 2012 From: wichert at wiggy.net (Wichert Akkerman) Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2012 12:03:56 +0200 Subject: [python-nl] django/python meeting split? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4F9E638C.6000403@wiggy.net> On 2012-4-29 22:06, Reinout van Rees wrote: > But the python meetings have a healthy web content. Plone's layout > mechanism, webpy, stuff like that. I'd personally like a pyramid talk at > the september Python meeting (Wichert, how does Utrecht sound?) Utrecht is prima voor mij! Zolang het niet op 7 of 14 september is - die data zijn al bezet. Wichert. -- Wichert Akkerman It is simple to make things. http://www.wiggy.net/ It is hard to make things simple. From marcel at progressivecompany.nl Mon Apr 30 19:30:16 2012 From: marcel at progressivecompany.nl (Marcel van den Elst) Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2012 19:30:16 +0200 Subject: [python-nl] django/python meeting split? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4F9ECC28.6020700@progressivecompany.nl> Hi, > I'd personally like a pyramid talk at > the september Python meeting (Wichert, how does Utrecht sound?) We're currently moving away from Django + Tastypie to Pyramid + MongoEngine + TastyMongo (which is our adaptation of Tastypie to Mongo and Pyramid) so we should be up to date on the topic in september. Rationale is that we used a minimal amount of Django (neither the admin interface, nor templates) and most got in our way instead of helping us out. We're not there yet, but so far we're loving the new experience! Pyramid is lightweight, very cleverly designed, at least as proven as Django, it has much nicer Request and Response objects and object level permissions are a breeze. Of course YMMV if you need any of the Django specific stuff. Whether we end up using this stack in the end remains to be seen, but either way we can shed some light on our endeavours in September if anyone's interested. Cheers! Marcel van den Elst. On 29-04-12 22:06, Reinout van Rees wrote: > On 27-04-12 11:42, Dirkjan Ochtman wrote: >> So perhaps the general sentiment is that Django venues are more >> web-focused than other Python-related gatherings? > > By nature, django is all-web, of course, so by definition it wins. > > > > > > Reinout >