[python-uk] The London Python Dojo is this Thursday

Michael Grazebrook michael at grazebrook.com
Fri Jul 12 13:31:56 CEST 2013

Perhaps we could stream teams, but also make sure less experienced teams 
have more experienced mentors - mentors who would rarely take the 
keyboard and try to ensure everyone is included.

On 12/07/2013 12:18, a.grandi at gmail.com wrote:
> Hi,
> On 12 July 2013 12:00, Tim Golden <mail at timgolden.me.uk> wrote:
>> While I'm definitely sympathetic, making sure to involve newbies is not
>> that easy a problem to solve. (Though that's not to say we can't try).
>> It pretty much comes down to who's in your team. Sometimes you get a
>> team which wholeheartedly embraces egalitarianism and passes the
>> keyboard round like a conch shell; other times, you've got someone
>> desperately keen who just grasps the challenge du jour by the keyboard
>> and will hardly let go.
> I was offered to take the keyboard (we were in the same team if I'm
> not wrong) and do some coding but I refused because I was both too
> tired and because I felt I was not at the proper level to code that
> problem.
>> Which brings me to your suggestion of... well, I'm not sure whether
>> you're suggesting "team streaming", ie a team of newbies, a team of
>> pros; or whether you're advocating specifically mixing the teams up.
>> I'll assume the latter as it seems to make more sense in the context.
> wrong assumpion :P
> If I'm in a team where other people are way more expert than me, I
> will never want to take the keyboard and start coding something.
> I think they would be bored by my slowness and by my level. My slow
> speed in coding could affect also the whole result (considering also
> that we have a stric time to respect)
>> We've tried to make this happen maybe once or twice in the past. It's
>> actually very difficult in practice, because you need people to identify
>> their level of profiency and then divide up on that basis. Actually,
>> maybe it's not that hard: we could just ask people to put, say, 0, 1 or
>> 2 on their name badge at the beginning to indicate perceived expertise,
>> and then somehow use that in the grouping. I don't know: something like
>> that could work.
> I would put a 1 in my case, hoping to get a easier (and doable)
> problem to solve.
> If it's still to hard I will try with 0. Better coding something easy
> than just watch other people coding.
>> I think people are likely to be self-deprecating when identifying their
>> level. I liked a question that Bruce Durling used a few years back: "Are
>> you more likely to be asking or to be answering questions about Python?".
> I won't self depreate ;) if I see that the problem is too easy for me,
> I will go to the more difficoult group the next time, no problem at
> all.
>> re bringing easy / intermediate problems along: well, anyone can propose
>> a problem. I think you're suggesting that *different* problems be solved
>> during the one evening, some easier, some harder. I don't say we'd never
>> do it, but in general we like to have everyone working on the same thing
>> so that, when it comes to the show-and-tell at the end, you're seeing
>> how another team solved the same problem you solved.
> I understand your point, but.....you really risk that people stop
> coming to the Python Dojo just because they don't feel to be at the
> proper level.
> I will probably keep coming anyway, because I really like the "social"
> part of the event (beer, meeting people, making new friends, talking
> about our jobs etc....), but I will keep watching other people coding.
> Another person could simply say: mmm... interesting but... not for my
> level. And stop coming. Do you really want this?
>> All that said, I'm up for trying anything. I have no issue with having a
>> specifically newbie-friendly session; or with having a problem which
>> specifically splits into an easier and a harder component; or with
>> making teams deliberately mixed ability. But that's just my take.
> of course if it's just me wanting this.... no problem, I will adapt
> someway, but let's see what the other people think about.
> Regards.

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