[Pythonmac-SIG] Re: Pythonmac-SIG digest, Vol 1 #945 - 14 msgs
mcclenon
mcclenon@cstone.net
Tue, 08 Jan 2002 12:13:45 -0500
Please remove me from your mailing list. Thanks.
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> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. Re: Installing numpy on mach-o python (Chris Lee)
> 2. MacPython 2.3 - Carbon only? (Jack Jansen)
> 3. Re: MacPython 2.3 - Carbon only? (Nathan Heagy)
> 4. Re: MacPython 2.3 - Carbon only? (Steven Majewski)
> 5. Re: MacPython 2.3 - Carbon only? (Bob Savage)
> 6. Re: MacPython 2.3 - Carbon only? (Steven Majewski)
> 7. Re: MacPython 2.3 - Carbon only? (Samuel Smith)
> 8. Re: MacPython 2.3 - Carbon only? (Mark Day)
> 9. Re: Installing numpy on mach-o python (Marcel Prastawa)
> 10. Re: MacPython 2.3 - Carbon only? (Chris Lumsargis)
> 11. Project Build and native Cocoa (Patrick Curtain)
> 12. RE: MacPython 2.3 - Carbon only? (Schollnick, Benjamin)
> 13. Re: MacPython 2.3 - Carbon only? (Jim Harrison)
> 14. RE: MacPython 2.3 - Carbon only? (Francois Granger)
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Subject: Re: [Pythonmac-SIG] Installing numpy on mach-o python
> Date: Fri, 04 Jan 2002 09:14:58 +1300
> From: "Chris Lee" <cjl@physics.otago.ac.nz>
> To: "Python" <pythonmac-sig@python.org>
>
> On January 03 2002, Jack Jansen <Jack.Jansen@cwi.nl> wrote:
>
> >On Thu, 3 Jan 2002, Chris Lee wrote:
> >> Okay so I have downloaded 2.2 and the latest and greatest Numerics and I have installed them. However when I run autotest I get a segementation fault at test_re
> >>
> >> Anymore advice?
> >
> >Yes: read the release notes:-)
>
> I had but it was only after I sent the email that I figured out that SEGV = semengtation fault (This is why I prefer installers to building my own). Anyway even then it took me a while to realise that the limit statement was a command and not a modification to a configuration file.
>
> So this is not the end of my woes. 3 test failed unexpectedly test_sax, test_pyexpat and test_locale however as far as I can tell these test functions I never use still, it would be nice to know that it wasn't fatal....
>
> Far worse I cannot run any scripts. I can start the interpreter and run commands from the command line but when I execute python myfile.py it starts and terminates without executing any code. So whats have I done now?
>
> Thanks for all your help everyone.
>
> Cheers
> Chris
> >
> >This is a known problem wit OSX: you need to set the stack bigger to make
> >the selftests pass. "limit stack 2048" should do the trick.
> >--
> >Jack Jansen | ++++ stop the execution of Mumia Abu-Jamal ++++
> >Jack.Jansen@cwi.nl | ++++ if you agree copy these lines to your sig ++++
> >http://www.cwi.nl/~jack | see http://www.xs4all.nl/~tank/spg-l/sigaction.htm
> >
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] MacPython 2.3 - Carbon only?
> Date: Thu, 03 Jan 2002 23:46:58 +0100
> From: Jack Jansen <jack@oratrix.nl>
> To: pythonmac-sig@python.org
>
> Folks,
> I'm toying with the idea of making MacPython 2.3 Carbon-only, as this
> would save a lot of development effort. And there are a lot of things
> I'd like to do, for one thing I would like all our MacPython goodies
> to run natively in MachoPython by the time 2.3 is released.
>
> There are two drawbacks to this plan:
> 1. MacPython wouldn't run on 8.5 anymore (for 8.1 MacPython 2.2 is the
> last release anyway), and on 8.6 you would need to manually install
> CarbonLib.
> 2. Tkinter is going to be a problem, but I think it is a solvable
> problem (it is possible to load InterfaceLib-based code into a
> CarbonLib-based main program).
>
> What do people think?
> --
> Jack Jansen | ++++ stop the execution of Mumia Abu-Jamal ++++
> Jack.Jansen@oratrix.com | ++++ if you agree copy these lines to your sig ++++
> www.cwi.nl/~jack | ++++ see http://www.xs4all.nl/~tank/ ++++
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Subject: Re: [Pythonmac-SIG] MacPython 2.3 - Carbon only?
> Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2002 16:53:32 -0600 (CST)
> From: Nathan Heagy <nathan@vividworks.com>
> To: Jack Jansen <jack@oratrix.nl>
> CC: pythonmac-sig@python.org
>
> Personally I only use Macho python (I call it unix python myself). However
> bias aside I think this is the Right Thing To Do.
>
> Nathan
>
> On Thu, 3 Jan 2002, Jack Jansen wrote:
>
> > Folks,
> > I'm toying with the idea of making MacPython 2.3 Carbon-only, as this
> > would save a lot of development effort. And there are a lot of things
> > I'd like to do, for one thing I would like all our MacPython goodies
> > to run natively in MachoPython by the time 2.3 is released.
> >
> > There are two drawbacks to this plan:
> > 1. MacPython wouldn't run on 8.5 anymore (for 8.1 MacPython 2.2 is the
> > last release anyway), and on 8.6 you would need to manually install
> > CarbonLib.
> > 2. Tkinter is going to be a problem, but I think it is a solvable
> > problem (it is possible to load InterfaceLib-based code into a
> > CarbonLib-based main program).
> >
> > What do people think?
> > --
> > Jack Jansen | ++++ stop the execution of Mumia Abu-Jamal ++++
> > Jack.Jansen@oratrix.com | ++++ if you agree copy these lines to your sig ++++
> > www.cwi.nl/~jack | ++++ see http://www.xs4all.nl/~tank/ ++++
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Pythonmac-SIG maillist - Pythonmac-SIG@python.org
> > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pythonmac-sig
> >
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Subject: Re: [Pythonmac-SIG] MacPython 2.3 - Carbon only?
> Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2002 18:06:32 -0500 (EST)
> From: Steven Majewski <sdm7g@Virginia.EDU>
> To: Jack Jansen <jack@oratrix.nl>
> CC: pythonmac-sig@python.org
>
> That plan is OK by me.
> ( 9.1 was so much more stable (IMHE) than anything that came before,
> that laziness is the only reason I still might have machines with
> 8.x. )
>
> -- Steve
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Subject: Re: [Pythonmac-SIG] MacPython 2.3 - Carbon only?
> Date: Thu, 03 Jan 2002 17:06:11 -0600
> From: Bob Savage <bobsavage@mac.com>
> To: PythonMac <pythonmac-sig@python.org>
>
> on 1/3/02 4:46 PM, Jack Jansen wrote:
> > I'm toying with the idea of making MacPython 2.3 Carbon-only,
> <...>
> > What do people think?
>
> I always feel selfish when I put my two cents in on these matters, because I
> know someone has real needs that require the old stuff (my brother runs a
> gene chip producing machine from a IIsi, so I can understand that people
> have legacy equipment and applications), but I am in favor of pushing ahead.
>
> I live out of OSX for most of the day (I do have a second machine dedicated
> as a software router, a scanning station, and to use Propellerhead Reason :)
> , but even that Mac is running OS 9.
>
> If it means Jack can accomplish more of what he wants to do, I'm in favor of
> untying his hands.
>
> Bob
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Subject: Re: [Pythonmac-SIG] MacPython 2.3 - Carbon only?
> Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2002 18:33:39 -0500 (EST)
> From: Steven Majewski <sdm7g@Virginia.EDU>
> To: Jack Jansen <jack@oratrix.nl>
> CC: pythonmac-sig@python.org
>
> Besides, there may be some advantages to moving the implementation
> over to the new Carbon-events model.
>
> On Thu, 3 Jan 2002, I wrote:
>
> >
> > That plan is OK by nme.
> > ( 9.1 was so much more stable (IMHE) than anything that came before,
> > that laziness is the only reason I still might have machines with
> > 8.x. )
> >
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Subject: Re: [Pythonmac-SIG] MacPython 2.3 - Carbon only?
> Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2002 16:52:19 -0700
> From: Samuel Smith <smithsm@samuelsmith.org>
> To: pythonmac-sig@python.org
> References: <20020103224658.A336DE8451@oratrix.oratrix.nl>
>
> >Folks,
> >I'm toying with the idea of making MacPython 2.3 Carbon-only, as this
> >would save a lot of development effort. And there are a lot of things
> >I'd like to do, for one thing I would like all our MacPython goodies
> >to run natively in MachoPython by the time 2.3 is released.
>
> I have no plans to ever use System 8 in the future.
>
> >
> >There are two drawbacks to this plan:
> >1. MacPython wouldn't run on 8.5 anymore (for 8.1 MacPython 2.2 is the
> >last release anyway), and on 8.6 you would need to manually install
> >CarbonLib.
> >2. Tkinter is going to be a problem, but I think it is a solvable
> >problem (it is possible to load InterfaceLib-based code into a
> >CarbonLib-based main program).
>
> I am hoping by then that wxPython-mac will be running
>
> >
> >What do people think?
> >--
> >Jack Jansen | ++++ stop the execution of Mumia Abu-Jamal ++++
> >Jack.Jansen@oratrix.com | ++++ if you agree copy these lines to your sig ++++
> >www.cwi.nl/~jack | ++++ see http://www.xs4all.nl/~tank/ ++++
> >
> >_______________________________________________
> >Pythonmac-SIG maillist - Pythonmac-SIG@python.org
> >http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pythonmac-sig
>
> --
> **********************************************
>
> Samuel M. Smith Ph.D.
>
> 360 W. 920 N.
> Orem, Utah 84057
>
> 801-226-7607 x112 (voice)
> 801-226-7608 (fax)
> http://www.samuelsmith.org (web)
>
> *********************************************
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Subject: Re: [Pythonmac-SIG] MacPython 2.3 - Carbon only?
> Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2002 15:57:41 -0800
> From: Mark Day <mday@mac.com>
> To: Jack Jansen <jack@oratrix.nl>
> CC: pythonmac-sig@python.org
>
> On Thursday, January 3, 2002, at 02:46 PM, Jack Jansen wrote:
>
> > Folks,
> > I'm toying with the idea of making MacPython 2.3 Carbon-only, as this
> > would save a lot of development effort. And there are a lot of things
> > I'd like to do, for one thing I would like all our MacPython goodies
> > to run natively in MachoPython by the time 2.3 is released.
>
> If making MacPython Carbon-only increases the chances of integrating
> MacPython and MachoPython, then I'm all for it. I'd really like to see
> Python be able to take advantage of both traditional Mac (Carbon) and
> Unix (simultaneously) on a Mac OS X system.
>
> > 1. MacPython wouldn't run on 8.5 anymore (for 8.1 MacPython 2.2 is the
> > last release anyway), and on 8.6 you would need to manually install
> > CarbonLib.
>
> In legacy installations, I think 8.6 is good enough these days. If the
> minimum requirement was 9.x, that might be a bit more of a problem
> (given the increased hardware demands of 9.x). There isn't a lot of
> difference in the requirements between 8.5 and 8.6. But I don't know
> how much the requirements change because of CarbonLib (eg., additional
> RAM usage).
>
> In my wife's store, the machines all run 8.6. That's mostly because 8.6
> has a smaller RAM footprint, and those old machines are a pain to
> upgrade. I think a Carbon-only MacPython would be fine. They *could*
> be upgraded to 9.x if I really needed to. But it sounds like can put
> off that kind of decision until sometime after MacPython 2.3 (at which
> point I may have upgraded to newer machines anyway).
>
> For my own personal tinkering and general productivity enhancement, I
> already run the latest Mac OS 9 and X anyway.
>
> -Mark
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Subject: Re: [Pythonmac-SIG] Installing numpy on mach-o python
> Date: Thu, 03 Jan 2002 19:54:54 -0500
> From: Marcel Prastawa <prastawa@cs.unc.edu>
> To: Chris Lee <cjl@physics.otago.ac.nz>
> CC: Python <pythonmac-sig@python.org>
> References: <7D214.9E3A.38124E.Nisus.ID@physics.otago.ac.nz>
>
> I don't know about the other two tests, but I think that it is
> normal/expected that test_locale fails. IIRC, Mac OS X has weak locale
> support. You probably don't need to worry too much about the failures,
> unless you really need to use those modules.
>
> > Far worse I cannot run any scripts. I can start the interpreter and
> > run commands from the command line but when I execute python myfile.py
> > it starts and terminates without executing any code. So whats have I
> > done now?
>
> Now this is odd... Do you not get any error messages or a stack trace?
> Did you check your code for bugs? One thing you could do is sprinkle
> some print statements in your code so you can tell what it is doing (or
> not doing). Also keep in mind that Python does not automatically
> echo/display the results of expressions when it executes a script file
> (it does so in an interactive session).
>
> BTW, if you don't want to get hassled with building your own Python, you
> should look into Fink: http://fink.sourceforge.net
> I do not use it for (Mach-O) Python, but I have happily used it for many
> other things.
> There's also GNU-Darwin at http://gnu-darwin.sourceforge.net
>
> Marcel
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Subject: Re: [Pythonmac-SIG] MacPython 2.3 - Carbon only?
> Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2002 21:29:43 -0700
> From: Chris Lumsargis <chrisl@fone.net>
> To: Jack Jansen <jack@oratrix.nl>
> CC: pythonmac-sig@python.org
>
> This is my first time to post on pythonmac-sig. I think your idea of
> going Carbon-only is a good one. It would make developing for me a whole
> lot simpler since most of my development tools either Cocoa or Carbon.
> Additionally, anything to speed the development process up and make
> things simpler for you is a boon of folks like me.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Chris Lumsargis
>
> On Thursday, January 3, 2002, at 03:46 PM, Jack Jansen wrote:
>
> > Folks,
> > I'm toying with the idea of making MacPython 2.3 Carbon-only, as this
> > would save a lot of development effort. And there are a lot of things
> > I'd like to do, for one thing I would like all our MacPython goodies
> > to run natively in MachoPython by the time 2.3 is released.
> >
> > There are two drawbacks to this plan:
> > 1. MacPython wouldn't run on 8.5 anymore (for 8.1 MacPython 2.2 is the
> > last release anyway), and on 8.6 you would need to manually install
> > CarbonLib.
> > 2. Tkinter is going to be a problem, but I think it is a solvable
> > problem (it is possible to load InterfaceLib-based code into a
> > CarbonLib-based main program).
> >
> > What do people think?
> > --
> > Jack Jansen | ++++ stop the execution of Mumia
> > Abu-Jamal ++++
> > Jack.Jansen@oratrix.com | ++++ if you agree copy these lines to your
> > sig ++++
> > www.cwi.nl/~jack | ++++ see http://www.xs4all.nl/~tank/ ++++
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Pythonmac-SIG maillist - Pythonmac-SIG@python.org
> > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pythonmac-sig
> >
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] Project Build and native Cocoa
> Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2002 23:08:01 -0800
> From: Patrick Curtain <patrick@swdev.com>
> To: pythonmac-sig@python.org
>
> Hey All!
>
> Please forgive what may very well be a silly question. Seems worth
> asking, though.
>
> Is there any hope of making Python another language for developing Cocoa
> applications?
>
> I just read about Apple's AppleScript Studio and I view the Interface
> Builder / Project Builder as a nearly -killer- environment for
> client-side development. If they can have pluggable development
> languages supporting ObjC, Java and now AppleScript, with Perl on the
> way (i understand), it seems possible to plug Python into that world.
>
> Can anyone with more knowledge about Cocoa development give an opinion?
>
> Thank You All!
> --p
>
> Patrick Curtain, Husband & Father ( i also write software )
> -
> - "Your site looks great, but does it DO anything?"
> - Call SWDev to give your site the ACTIVE Edge.
> - 503.781.6199 - http://www.swdev.com/info/corporate/
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Subject: RE: [Pythonmac-SIG] MacPython 2.3 - Carbon only?
> Date: Fri, 04 Jan 2002 07:53:00 -0500
> From: "Schollnick, Benjamin" <Benjamin.Schollnick@usa.xerox.com>
> To: "'Jack Jansen'" <jack@oratrix.nl>, pythonmac-sig@python.org
>
> Jack,
>
> Carbon Only is probably (??) a good thing.
>
> The only reason I can think of not being carbonized, is
> to allow older hardware / OSes run the software...
> But as you mentioned Python 2.2 is the last release
> allowed for Mac OS 8.1.
>
> Since your placing that restriction, then it's probably
> a good time to "sneak" this one in as well...
>
> Honestly, the Tkinter question is my only hesitation...
> Tkinter has to be available, since that's the "native"
> GUI platform for Python.
>
> (Native meaning it comes with the software, and it's
> demoed with it.)
>
>
> - Benjamin
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jack Jansen [mailto:jack@oratrix.nl]
> Sent: Thursday, January 03, 2002 5:47 PM
> To: pythonmac-sig@python.org
> Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] MacPython 2.3 - Carbon only?
>
> Folks,
> I'm toying with the idea of making MacPython 2.3 Carbon-only, as this
> would save a lot of development effort. And there are a lot of things
> I'd like to do, for one thing I would like all our MacPython goodies
> to run natively in MachoPython by the time 2.3 is released.
>
> There are two drawbacks to this plan:
> 1. MacPython wouldn't run on 8.5 anymore (for 8.1 MacPython 2.2 is the
> last release anyway), and on 8.6 you would need to manually install
> CarbonLib.
> 2. Tkinter is going to be a problem, but I think it is a solvable
> problem (it is possible to load InterfaceLib-based code into a
> CarbonLib-based main program).
>
> What do people think?
> --
> Jack Jansen | ++++ stop the execution of Mumia Abu-Jamal ++++
> Jack.Jansen@oratrix.com | ++++ if you agree copy these lines to your sig
> ++++
> www.cwi.nl/~jack | ++++ see http://www.xs4all.nl/~tank/ ++++
>
> _______________________________________________
> Pythonmac-SIG maillist - Pythonmac-SIG@python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pythonmac-sig
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Subject: Re: [Pythonmac-SIG] MacPython 2.3 - Carbon only?
> Date: Fri, 04 Jan 2002 08:22:29 -0500
> From: Jim Harrison <jhrsn@pitt.edu>
> To: Jack Jansen <jack@oratrix.nl>
> CC: pythonmac-sig@python.org
>
> on 1/3/02 5:46 PM, Jack Jansen at jack@oratrix.nl wrote:
>
> > I'm toying with the idea of making MacPython 2.3 Carbon-only, as this
> > would save a lot of development effort. And there are a lot of things
> > I'd like to do, for one thing I would like all our MacPython goodies
> > to run natively in MachoPython by the time 2.3 is released.
>
> This would be fine with me and now is probably a good time to make the leap.
>
> Jim Harrison
> Univ. of Pittsburgh
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Subject: RE: [Pythonmac-SIG] MacPython 2.3 - Carbon only?
> Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2002 15:58:31 +0100
> From: Francois Granger <fgranger@altern.org>
> To: "Schollnick, Benjamin" <Benjamin.Schollnick@usa.xerox.com>,
> "'Jack Jansen'" <jack@oratrix.nl>, pythonmac-sig@python.org
> References: <E2D1934575D1D411973D00508BB02F1730252F@usa0129ms1.ess.mc.xerox.com>
>
> At 7:53 -0500 4/01/02, in message RE: [Pythonmac-SIG] MacPython 2.3 -
> Carbon only?, Schollnick, Benjamin wrote:
> >
> > Honestly, the Tkinter question is my only hesitation...
> > Tkinter has to be available, since that's the "native"
> > GUI platform for Python.
>
> And the only still available.
>
> And I don't see wx available soon for Mac.