[Pythonmac-SIG] MacPython logo redux
Kevin Ollivier
kevino at tulane.edu
Tue Nov 4 18:37:49 EST 2003
Hi Jack,
On Nov 4, 2003, at 2:16 PM, Jack Jansen wrote:
> Another strong point in favor of this logo is that it's the first
> non-Monty-Python one that I would seriously consider:-)
>
> My reasoning is somewhat like this:
> - Having a snake would strengthen the connection between MacPython and
> the other Pythons.
> - Having a beautiful photo-realistic snake would strengthen the
> connection between MacPython and the Macintosh.
>
> This image also has two important strong points: it's width and height
> are about the same (making it easy to incorporate in other icons) and
> moreover it wraps something (giving us yet another class of icons to
> create).
It's more the depiction of the snake in this icon which bothers me
rather than the fact there is a snake in it. (I would not be adverse to
a snake logo, in fact I'm in favor of one for consistency.) The point I
have been trying to make is that photorealistic snakes scare people
because the photo-realism emphasizes that this is a real snake, and
brings the same connotations as real snakes. (dangerous, creepy, etc.)
I'd bet many people on this list also feel that way about snakes - its
just that it doesn't bother them. (Or in fact they think that kind of
image is cool. =)
> One technical issue is copyright: would the artist be willing to hand
> over copyright to the PSF? In return I'd be more than willing to add a
> page "the MacPython logo" to the website, with proper attribution of
> the logo and a link to his website, etc.
>
> As to people afraid of snakes: unless a majority (or a sizeable
> minority) of the people here agree that this is a problem I think we
> shouldn't let this stop us (Sorry Kevin!!!). And: the snake isn't all
> *that* realistic... Hmm, a compromise I'd be open to is if the artist
> added Guido's glasses to the snake, would that be doable?
I'm just saying that icon design should not only accommodate people who
are currently using the software, but also try to accommodate anyone
who might want to use the software in the future. A neutral icon that
everyone can live with is much better than an icon that 80% of people
love and 20% of people hate or are bothered by - because the software
itself is more important than its icon. You're trying to get people to
use the software, so any icon that could get in the way of that (even
for a minority of people) is probably doing more harm than good. After
all, the weight icon isn't anything amazing, but I don't see anyone
saying that they find anything spooky or creepy about it. ;-) Some
people, however, may not want pictures (or photo-realistic art) of
snakes or bugs or things that go bump in the night floating around
their desktop. And BTW I do potentially include children in that,
thinking along the lines of CP4E.
As for a compromise on the snake, glasses are a thought, but I'd go for
a simpler color scheme which would at least remove the black splotches
on the snake's skin, maybe move to a green color to match with the
Windows icon. It doesn't need to have a thick, bulky body either - yes
I know Pythons have this, but again I don't think realism is always a
good thing in icon design.
> As to that-type-of-christians taking offense (with the emphasis on
> "that-type-of": 99% of the christians wouldn't, I'm pretty sure): no
> problem, they're not using macs. See
> <http://objective.jesussave.us/propaganda.html> for details. WARNING:
> don't follow that URL unless you have a fair amount of spare time
> available. It's addictive, and there's lots of good stuff on that site
> and others near it.
I've seen that one before, and it's quite funny. ;-) However, I went
through 12 years of Catholic school, and regardless of my knowing
better, I do clearly see the Biblical reference. I don't find it
offensive - I honestly don't particularly care - but I guess I've got a
silly philosophy that if one can avoid offending people or giving the
wrong impression, one should try their best to do so. (Of course then I
open my big mouth and there goes that idea...! ;-) I think it's more
work, which is what turns most people off to the idea <G>, but in the
end the result is a better product.
At the very least I would change the icon to use Apple's own Panther
brushed-metal "apple" which would make people see it more as a
reference to "Apple computer" rather than a generic apple - and you may
want to consult with Apple about this anyways, now that the framework
build and Pythonw are being included with Python. They will run into
the icon issue when upgrading to 10.4 or whatever anyways. I do think
they will be more picky about software that goes into their OS than
they would about their logo appearing on Slashdot. =)
Kevin
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