[Pythonmac-SIG] Mac User Python newbies

[Bob Ippolito]

On Feb 8, 2005, at 7:40 PM, Troy Rollins wrote:

> On Tue, 8 Feb 2005 17:59:46 -0500, Bob Ippolito <bob at redivi.com> wrote:
>>
>> On Feb 8, 2005, at 5:46 PM, Troy Rollins wrote:
>
>>> cohesive toolset. There are thousands of individual parts and pieces,
>>> lots of semi-working IDEs and debuggers...
>>
>> Welcome to free software?
>
> Ha. Fair enough. I guess my point is mostly that Python seems pretty
> mature, and yet still manages to be scattered. I realize that the best
> thing would be for me to take the task on myself, but I'm barely
> versed enough yet to run packageManager... and frankly don't even know
> if that is the best way to manage all the parts and pieces.

Probably because most of the Python world isn't developing GUI 
applications (though seems to be a big swing in this direction).  Also, 
Mac OS X has only been around a few years and there aren't many people 
working on making it better (though I'm sure there are lots of people 
using it), so you can't really expect a best of breed solution just 
yet.

I wouldn't really recommend doing much with PackageManager, it's an OK 
way to get started, but it has a lot of problems and its packages 
aren't up to date (at least mine aren't, I no longer maintain my 
repository).  Your best bet is to learn how to build packages from 
source (usually "python setup.py install"), and/or use the binary 
installers provided for several popular packages (wxPython, PyObjC, 
PIL, matplotlib).  PyObjC (via py2app) ships with a little 
"PackageInstaller" application that will create Apple Installer 
packages out of most packages and install them.. simply drop a setup.py 
or a directory containing setup.py on top of it.  PackageInstaller 
should be installed to /Developer/Python/py2app (or something close to 
that).  If it fails to work, it probably won't provide any useful 
output, but most packages should work.

>>> 1) Python
>>> 2) An IDE and debugger (Xcode?)
>>> 3) A GUI toolkit (wxWidgets?)
>>
>> I'd highly recommend PyObjC if cross-platform isn't an immediate goal.
>> Other than that, wxPython seems to be the default, but you'll probably
>> have to fight with it to do what you want.
>
> I've looked at this, and it looks as though it will allow the use of
> Interface Builder for GUI, driven by Python. While that is only a Mac
> solution, it may be a great route to get started with. So, I take it
> that I don't have to use Xcode for the code writing...?
>
>> No, Xcode can not provide you with any more than syntax highlighting.
>> Debugging is not an option beyond interacting with pdb on a console
>> (same as you would from Terminal).  It's possible to write such a
>> feature, but there is no public API for doing so, so nobody is likely
>> to do it.
>
> Fair enough, then Xcode is out, unless it is required for PyObjc.

PyObjC has no dependency on Xcode.  It ships with Xcode templates, but 
they are a little behind the times and are not the recommended way to 
deploy applications because they do not integrate with py2app.

>> PyOXIDE is out there, Mac OS X native, and open source, but it might 
>> be
>> immature (I don't have real experience with it, so I can't say).  All
>> the rest are either ancient and featureless (the MacPython IDE), or
>> based on cross-platform toolkits and aren't very Mac-like.  I have
>> heard good things about Wing, which is a commercial IDE for Python, 
>> but
>> only runs under X11 for Mac OS X.
>
> I've tried PyOxide, which is very promising, but doesn't seem fully
> stable yet. Currently, Wing seems the best equipped, but its X11
> approach feels a bit like a Java app. I guess it may be the best
> available right now, and it is certainly more stable than the others.

Speaking of Java, there's also Eclipse, which has Python support.  I've 
never done more than start the thing though.

-bob