[Pythonmac-SIG] Re: Mac newbie

[Jon Schull]

> |Let me conclude with a question: what *should* be in a newbie-friendly
> |> Python IDE? If you were writing one, what would you like to see in 
> it?
>
>
> |>Well, that is a good point. I suppose everyone will have a differing
> |>opinion on that, particularly in terms of goals. For me, I'd like to
> |>see a single package, which includes a GUI designer, script editor
> |>with colorizing, debugger, interactive console, some sort of module
> |>browser for functions and syntax, resource viewer, something similar
> |>to package manager... and a basic set of modules for x-plat
> |>development work. Then, some tool which helps to output the whole
> |>thing as a runtime package.
>
> |>I realize that is asking a lot. I really do.

I agree its a good question, and I agree its asking a lot.

So let's start from the bottom, sticking with the bare essentials 
required by a newbie (who may not want an overly-ornate macromedia-like 
environment anyway.).

(Preface:   * On windows I was very happy with Scite.  On the mac, 
Scite was sluggish, and crashed.
* On windows I there was only one flavor of python, and VPython (which 
is to my mind the purest expression of pythonic newbie-friendly 
simplicity) just worked.  On the mac there are (too) many flavors of 
python and they can trounce each other.  Even the "looks and feels" 
(e.g, X11 idle vs "OSX" vs command line) vary.  It is sad and ironic 
that within-python, windows offers the python programmer a more 
consistent mac-like user experience than the mac does.   This is even 
sadder because I think there is are natural esthetic and community 
affinities between the mac mac and python communities.)

So in prioritized order (numbers are prioritized; letter ordering is 
not)
1a.  A peppy native aqua,  crash-free text editor with optional syntax 
highlighting
1b. A single easy and obvious configuring of the python memory 
environment.  (.pth?  sys.path? site module?  gimme a break!)
2a. an  under-the-hood solution to, or hiding of, the dueling pythons.  
(Maybe that means installing modules in two locations?)
2b.  The text editor should support code folding  (to best exploit 
python's most distinctive and valuable feature) via keystrokes.
3a.  Command R runs the current script.
3b.  Keys can be rebound simply, e.g. by editing a text file
3c.  Errors take you to the offending line.
4.  An easy to use, pythonic gui system that will carry cross platform.
5a.  Easy variable tracing
5b. A full stepping debugger.
5c.  Some kind of simple versioning (such as saving automatic 
incrementally numbered backups)
6.  What he said.  But, as noted, that's asking a lot.  I'd be happy 
with 1+...

Notes:
Today, Smultron gives me #1
1b bites me periodically but I'm brain-damaged already so I  don't feel 
the pain very often
2a is a scandal (even if no one in particular is to blame)
3a Command R can wait for  the third tier because I have a trick:  I 
run a script  "onchange.py python somefile.py" which runs somefile.py 
whenever I save the file.  But a newbie wouldn't know how to create 
this script.
4.  AnyGui seemed like a really good idea to me.
5a and 5b:  the point of mentioning these is to show how LOW a priority 
they are relative to the prior basic usability issues.

I'm not complaining here, so much as trying to raise consciousness 
about lost opportunities and newbie frustrations to which afficionados 
in the mature python community are, almost by definition, blinded.

Also, I'm  speculating but not presuming that  this is the right 
prioritization.  Your comments?