[Pythonmac-SIG] PyOXIDE wishes?

[Scott Lawton]

Since this thread came up again, I'll take the liberty of adding my own $0.02 (I just joined the list recently):

- in addition to reviewing recent threads that covered IDEs, please review threads that describe newbie impressions of MacPython.  For example, Troy Rollins's views are quite important IMHO.  I've followed MacPython for years, but haven't jumped in since I can't afford the productivity hit.  A really good IDE makes a huge difference.

- given the wide variety of free IDEs, perhaps its time for a paid one to enter the mix?  Presumably that would allow more features in less time.  For example, there's now a commercial editor for Perl on the Mac: Affrus from Late Night Software.  (I know Mark; he's a great guy, but he didn't pay me to write this!  Nor have I tried the product, though his Script Debugger for AppleScript is great.)

... for maximum reach, the IDE could have a dual license, e.g. free for shipping free software, commercial otherwise.  There will be *some* complaints from both side, but still may be the best way to crank out the features.

- robustness is more important than features!  It's fun to add features, but for commercial developers, a few crashes may suffice to move on to something else.  Test-driven development seems like a good fit here.

- as others have said, please include some real information on your website.  People want to have confidence that there's a serious effort to create a real product not just a quick hack for the fun of it.

- without reviewing any of the great suggestions in previous threads, here are a few items on my priority list:
	* never crash

	* tight integration with Text Wrangler (free) and BBEdit (paid); let them worry about syntax highlighting and otherwise making a cool (if imperfect) editor

	* a real debugger: single step, breakpoints, step in/out, examine variables in a GUI, change values and continue running

	* the debugger should allow debugging of code that uses wxPython.  And PyObjC to the extent that's possible (probably can't step into the ObjC part) and desirable (does XCode suffice?).

	* super convenient display of Python help, e.g. command-dbl-click on any keyword to jump right to relevent information about it (e.g. params for a function); perhaps option-dbl-click for a different bit of info (if there are 2 logical targets) -- note that you can probably add this to TextWrangler/BBEdit via AppleEvents and a script menu and/or a plug-in

	* did I mention "never crash"?

- one thing Text Wrangler and BBEdit may not do: command completion.  Wonder if it could be done as a plugin, or even via AppleEvents....

- and, one FUTURE: real outlining.  That's also been mentioned in recent threads.  I'll just add that Frontier is now open source, with an active group of developers.  So, anyone can see how it works.  (And, Radio UserLand has had a free trial version forever AFAIK.)  Note that UserTalk (Frontier's native scripting language) is very much in the spirit of Python (e.g. uses indentation instead of curly braces).  And, Frontier allows embedded AppleScript or any other OSA language (or did on OS 9; I haven't check on X).  And, there's now an effort to integrate Python.  http://www.scriptweb.org/FrontierAsOpenSource.html isn't quite up to date but points to the Yahoo Groups list and such.

...

Is that long enough for a first post?

cheers,

Scott
PreFab.com, ScriptWeb.org, etc.