[Pythonmac-SIG] Build script for Universal Python

[Ronald Oussoren]

On 13-feb-2006, at 20:14, Kevin Ollivier wrote:

> Hi Ronald,
>
> On Feb 13, 2006, at 10:28 AM, Ronald Oussoren wrote:
>
>>
>> On 13-feb-2006, at 19:17, Bob Ippolito wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> On Feb 13, 2006, at 10:11 AM, Ronald Oussoren wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 13-feb-2006, at 1:37, Bob Ippolito wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> wonder how hard this is to add to IDLE, or if we can just link  
>>>>> to HTML docs.  I'm not personally a big fan of Help Book anyway.
>>>>
>>>> I just read the source for pydoc, we could install the HTML docs  
>>>> in Python.framework/Resources/English.lproj/Documentation.  
>>>> Idlelib would need a patch to support this location. There's  
>>>> already specific configuration for windows and linux in there  
>>>> (in idlelib.EditorWindow)
>>>
>>> That sounds fine, we're going to be making a couple IDLE hacks  
>>> anyway.
>>
>> Are we? We have a lot of patches anyway, adding another patch to  
>> teach idlelib about the document locations that pydoc recognizes  
>> won't be the most controversial one in our set of patches.
>>
>>>
>>>> I just remembered something else that needs to be done some  
>>>> time: create better icons, it's time to leave the 10 ton weight  
>>>> behind (or at the very least the current rendition of it). I  
>>>> won't do this though, given my skills in that deparment the  
>>>> icons would get worse instead of better.
>>>
>>> That's a good idea, but last I tried to get one of my friends to  
>>> do something about that it turned out to be "too realistic".  I'm  
>>> not going to bother wasting anyone else's time.
>>
>> I remember that. Is that icon still available? That icon was a lot  
>> better than what we have now, if anyone complains about the  
>> realism they can come up with another icon :-).
>
> There are other potential designs for icons; for example, have you  
> seen the snake icon for the wxPython demo (once it's loaded, it  
> changes from the weight icon to the snake)? (Sorry, yes, I know who  
> I'm asking. ;-) I also pointed out some other alternatives on some  
> thread on this list in Nov. 2003, thread "MacPython logo redux".  
> But then others complained, surprise, that it's too cartoony. :-)  
> The problem is not that there's no other icons, it's just that  
> we're not going to make everyone happy.

I haven't seen the icon, is it online somewhere? BTW. I do use  
wxPython at work, it is the easiest way to develop windows GUI's  
without leaving the comforts of my mac.

>
> The Apple/snake icon, from an image perspective (and that's all it  
> is...), has several problems with it. First, real snakes are scary  
> and some people don't like looking at scary things. I had to put  
> stickers over the cover of my O'Reilly Python library reference  
> book because the snake on there creeps my wife out. I think I'll  
> have a harder time now getting her to use Python... I won't even  
> get into the biblical connotations, etc. of a mean-looking snake  
> wrapped around an apple, but I think being non-offensive is,  
> probably, a good idea if we're still talking about making Python  
> appeal to others. As has been stated before in this discussion, we  
> probably won't offend "too many people" with these things, but why  
> do we have to offend anyone at all? A non-offensive 12-ton weight  
> is at least better than a somewhat offensive snake.
>
> A more cartoonish/abstract design like the wxPython one won't spook  
> anyone or have scary connotations, and while some people may not  
> like it, it's closer to the Windows Python icon and heck, icons  
> like Adium's are actually some of my favorites. There's also the  
> issue that at small sizes, the snake becomes unrecognizable anyways  
> making the icon look like an Apple with a yellow something at the  
> bottom. But of course, this was all dregged up and discussed before.
>
> I really wish Python itself would get a standard icon across  
> platforms, but that's another story. (The web site redesign seems  
> totally stalled....)

A standard icon would be nice, but we really have to update the 10- 
ton icon its age is too obviously an OS9 icon. I know the snake is  
offensive/scary to some people, but I'm afraid that if we don't  
change now we'll never change. I don't mind having the snake icon on  
Bob's site in a first beta release of Universal Python if that stirs  
things up enough to get a less offensive icon in the final release.  
Bonus points for someone that is inspired by Monty Python.

Ronald
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