From piercew@netscape.net  Tue Feb  1 01:12:31 2000
From: piercew@netscape.net (Wayne)
Date: 31 Jan 00 17:12:31 PST
Subject: [Tutor] Re: Python Tutorial probs...
Message-ID: <20000201011231.26952.qmail@wwcst269.netaddress.usa.net>

Daniel,

> Hello

Hi!

> >>> tax =3D3D 17.5 / 100
> >>> price =3D3D 3.50
> >>> price * tax=3D20
> which should return
> 0.6125=3D20
> and it dose but the problem is when it tells me to type in:
> >>> price + _
> I get an error message..... here is the hole thing...

Unless there is a variable called '_' it can't add them together.  It's
probably just a typo in the documentation (or it might be a blank space t=
hat
is part of a link).  If you set the value of '_' to something it will add=
 them
properly.

> thanks in advance

Not a problem.

Wayne

____________________________________________________________________
Get your own FREE, personal Netscape WebMail account today at http://webm=
ail.netscape.com.


From blackgr@alltel.net  Tue Feb  1 02:12:47 2000
From: blackgr@alltel.net (Glynn Black)
Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 21:12:47 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [Tutor] Rounding Floating Points
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.10.10001312106110.5781-100000@localhost.localdomain>

I'm looking to round off a floating point number and then convert it to a
string. I've accomplished this with the following in Perl:

$output_label2_var = sprintf("%.2f", $output_label2_var);

but have yet to find any reference to sprintf() in any my Python
books/references or any other means of getting the same results for that
matter. How would I go about accomplishing this in Python?

Glynn Black		blackgr@alltel.net



From tim_one@email.msn.com  Tue Feb  1 01:26:05 2000
From: tim_one@email.msn.com (Tim Peters)
Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 20:26:05 -0500
Subject: [Tutor] Python totorial problems.....
In-Reply-To: <5104D4DBC598D211B5FE0000F8FE7EB202DF6019@mbtlipnt02.btlabs.bt.co.uk>
Message-ID: <000501bf6c53$4f3dd180$d709143f@tim>

>> and it dose but the problem is when it tells me to type in:
>> >>> price + _
>> I get an error message..... here is the hole thing...


[alan.gauld@bt.com]
> What version of Python do you have, it works for me
> with Python 1.5.2
>
> But OTOH I was not aware of this '_' trick so it might be
> a recent introduction to Python not supported by your version.
>
> [ I learnt Python on v1.3, and am pretty sure this wasn't
>   mentioned anywhere in the docs then... ]
>
> Any of the list guru's like to say when this appeared?

The special meaning of "_" in interactive mode has been in Python since the
first public release; it has always worked from the command line
interpreter, and in IDLE.

Dan's(?) problem is most likely that he's using an old version of PythonWin.
IIRC, PythonWin's interpreter loop didn't implement this at first.  I tried
it under PythonWin build 125 and it works fine now.  So get a more recent
PythonWin, or use IDLE or a straight cmdline interpreter instead.




From Moshe Zadka <mzadka@geocities.com>  Tue Feb  1 02:10:01 2000
From: Moshe Zadka <mzadka@geocities.com> (Moshe Zadka)
Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2000 04:10:01 +0200 (IST)
Subject: [Tutor] Python totorial problems.....
In-Reply-To: <003601bf6ba3$517003c0$f36299d1@micoks.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.3.96.1000201040810.23158B-100000@sundial>

On Sun, 30 Jan 2000, Daniel W Wobker wrote:

> Hello, I am using the Python Tutorial Release 1.5.2 When I get to page 9 chapter 3 it tells me to type in in interactive mode
> >>> tax = 17.5 / 100
> >>> price = 3.50
> >>> price * tax 
> which should return
> 0.6125 
> and it dose but the problem is when it tells me to type in:
> >>> price + _
> I get an error message..... here is the hole thing...
<name error>

You're using PythonWin instead of the Python regular interpreter. 

That said, I think putting the semantics of the command line tutorial is a
bit misleading, considering the various interpreters (IDLE, PythonWin and
Python) which abound....anyone?

--
Moshe Zadka <mzadka@geocities.com>. 
INTERNET: Learn what you know.
Share what you don't.



From Moshe Zadka <mzadka@geocities.com>  Tue Feb  1 02:24:06 2000
From: Moshe Zadka <mzadka@geocities.com> (Moshe Zadka)
Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2000 04:24:06 +0200 (IST)
Subject: [Tutor] Python tutorials
In-Reply-To: <v04220802b4bb898c6427@[128.206.190.1]>
Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.3.96.1000201042158.23158D-100000@sundial>

On Mon, 31 Jan 2000, Oscar Chavez wrote:

> Most tutorials' examples are based in operations with strings and 
> text in general. Are there any Python tutorials that stress its math 
> capabilities? In particular, I have noticed that there is a limit on 
> the integers that Python can handle, but I don't know exactly to what 
> extent this can be modified. 

To any extent, by using long integers.

Try the following function:

def fact(n):
	ret = 1L # a Python long integer is a bignum
	for i in range(1, n+1):
		ret = ret * i
	return ret

> I would like to do operations with 
> matrices, factoring integers and floating point operations. Where 
> should I look for help on these matters?

The Numeric module, which is available now somewhere on sourceforge.net. 
--
Moshe Zadka <mzadka@geocities.com>. 
INTERNET: Learn what you know.
Share what you don't.



From arcege@shore.net  Tue Feb  1 03:46:10 2000
From: arcege@shore.net (Michael P. Reilly)
Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 22:46:10 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [Tutor] Rounding Floating Points
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.10.10001312106110.5781-100000@localhost.localdomain> from "Glynn Black" at Jan 31, 2000 09:12:47 PM
Message-ID: <200002010346.WAA20990@northshore.shore.net>

> I'm looking to round off a floating point number and then convert it to a
> string. I've accomplished this with the following in Perl:
> 
> $output_label2_var = sprintf("%.2f", $output_label2_var);
> 
> but have yet to find any reference to sprintf() in any my Python
> books/references or any other means of getting the same results for that
> matter. How would I go about accomplishing this in Python?

It seems you are just concerned with string formatting, not actual
rounding in a mathematical sense (which Perl doesn't have per se).
There is no sprintf function in Python because Python deals with string
formatting as an operator (like "+" or "*").

What you probably want is, resulting in a string instead of a number:
  output_label2_var = '%.2f' % output_label2_var

For example:
>>> '%.2f' % 4.506
'4.51'
>>>

But if you mean rounding functionality (the Perl Cookbook actually has
the laughable solution of using sprintf for rounding), then there is a
builtin function called round(), which will do this for you:
  output_label2_var = str(round(output_label2_var, 2))

>>> round(4.506, 2)
4.51
>>>

This rounds the value to the given decimal (by hundredths since that is
what you specify in your code) and converts the result to a string,
which is what the Perl code is doing.

Also, if you know a string is a float, you can convert the string with
the builtin function: float(), or the string module function atof().
Buf if you were dealing with numbers anyway, then don't worry about
using the string formatting or str() and float() functions.

Hope this helps,
  -Arcege

-- 
------------------------------------------------------------------------
| Michael P. Reilly, Release Engineer | Email: arcege@shore.net        |
| Salem, Mass. USA  01970             |                                |
------------------------------------------------------------------------


From oc918@mizzou.edu  Tue Feb  1 03:50:09 2000
From: oc918@mizzou.edu (Oscar Chavez)
Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 21:50:09 -0600
Subject: [Tutor] Python tutorials
In-Reply-To: <Pine.SOL.3.96.1000201042158.23158D-100000@sundial>
References: <Pine.SOL.3.96.1000201042158.23158D-100000@sundial>
Message-ID: <v04220801b4bc083989f6@[128.206.145.58]>

At 4:24 AM +0200 2/1/00, Moshe Zadka wrote:
>The Numeric module, which is available now somewhere on sourceforge.net.

Thank you very much! I found it, and now I have the modules, the 
documentation, and I also subscribed to the mailing list they have.

_____________________________________________________________________
Oscar Chavez                  You can only find truth with logic if
Mathematics Education         you have already found truth without it.
104 Stewart Hall
University of Missouri                      The Man who was Orthodox
Columbia, MO 65211-6180                             G. K. Chesterton
oc918@mizzou.edu
tel: (573) 882-4521
fax: (573) 882-4481


From johnm88@hotmail.com  Tue Feb  1 07:53:43 2000
From: johnm88@hotmail.com (john miner)
Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 23:53:43 PST
Subject: [Tutor] unsubcribe me from your list please
Message-ID: <20000201075344.8227.qmail@hotmail.com>

unsubcribe me from your list please
Thanks.

John Miner
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com



From alan.gauld@bt.com  Tue Feb  1 17:30:30 2000
From: alan.gauld@bt.com (alan.gauld@bt.com)
Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2000 17:30:30 -0000
Subject: [Tutor] Rounding Floating Points
Message-ID: <5104D4DBC598D211B5FE0000F8FE7EB202DF6027@mbtlipnt02.btlabs.bt.co.uk>

> $output_label2_var = sprintf("%.2f", $output_label2_var);
> 
> but have yet to find any reference to sprintf() in any my Python

Look at "format strings"

The equivalent to your sprointf is:

"%.2f" % output_label2_var

If there are multiple substitutuons you put them in a tuple...

Alan G.


From ksipos@netaxs.com  Tue Feb  1 17:59:38 2000
From: ksipos@netaxs.com (kalak)
Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2000 12:59:38 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [Tutor] modules available
Message-ID: <200002011759.MAA24081@mail.netaxs.com>

Please assist me in Python database..

Is there a list of available modules?
are any modules available for database manipulation or display.

thanks

Ken
Philadelphia



From curtis.larsen@Covance.Com  Tue Feb  1 20:34:08 2000
From: curtis.larsen@Covance.Com (Curtis Larsen)
Date: Tue, 01 Feb 2000 14:34:08 -0600
Subject: [Tutor] URLLIB Problem Progress(?)
Message-ID: <s896eef3.018@madmail.truax.covance.com>

I've been continuing to make progress on getting the URLLIB module to
work with an HTTP proxy -- my http_proxy environment variable currently
reads: "http://proxyname.mydomain.com/" -- and now I get this error when
running "urllib.test()":

Traceback (innermost last):
  File "/usr/local/lib/python1.5/urllib.py", line 985, in ?
    test()
  File "/usr/local/lib/python1.5/urllib.py", line 964, in test
    fn, h = urlretrieve(url)
  File "/usr/local/lib/python1.5/urllib.py", line 69, in urlretrieve
    return _urlopener.retrieve(url)
  File "/usr/local/lib/python1.5/urllib.py", line 186, in retrieve
    fp = self.open(url)
  File "/usr/local/lib/python1.5/urllib.py", line 159, in open
    return getattr(self, name)(url)
  File "/usr/local/lib/python1.5/urllib.py", line 259, in open_http
    return addinfourl(fp, headers, "http:" + url)
TypeError: illegal argument type for built-in operation

Is this saying that the "string-constant-plus-'url'-variable" line above
is not acceptable?
Am I missing something silly?

Thanks!
Curtis


PS: Thanks for the help on my last post about mapping.  Curiosity
question: Why don't dictionaries use curly braces instead of square
brackets for assignation?  e.g. <dic{key}=value> instead of
<dic[key]=value>.   My initial newbie reaction to seeing that is to
think the dictionary is a list -- especially when you use curly braces
with them otherwise.  Just wondering.

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From wking@sheltonbbs.com  Wed Feb  2 14:18:15 2000
From: wking@sheltonbbs.com (Mike Partin)
Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2000 08:18:15 -0600
Subject: [Tutor] executing a external program
Message-ID: <00020208185901.02463@localhost.localdomain>

Does anyone have any examples of this..... especially executing a program that
uses switches for example cvs.


From gerrit@nl.linux.org  Wed Feb  2 14:48:01 2000
From: gerrit@nl.linux.org (Gerrit Holl)
Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2000 15:48:01 +0100
Subject: [Tutor] executing a external program
In-Reply-To: <00020208185901.02463@localhost.localdomain>; from wking@sheltonbbs.com on Wed, Feb 02, 2000 at 08:18:15AM -0600
References: <00020208185901.02463@localhost.localdomain>
Message-ID: <20000202154801.A6010@humbolt.nl.linux.org>

Hello,

On Wed, Feb 02, 2000 at 08:18:15AM -0600, Mike Partin wrote:
> Does anyone have any examples of this..... especially executing a program that
> uses switches for example cvs.

You can use different functions for that.
If you don't need to capture the output but print is as is (like you
do when you run a program amnually from the shell), use os.system:
Like:
os.system("cvs commit -m 'My script changed something' file.c")

If you do need to capture the output, you can use os.popen, like:

fp = os.popen("cvs commit -m 'My script changed something' file.c")
output = fp.read()

If you need to capture errors also (likely if you need it for CVS), have
a look at the popen2 module.

regards,
Gerrit.

-- 
-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK----- http://www.geekcode.com
Version: 3.12
GCS dpu s-:-- a14 C++++>$ UL++ P--- L+++ E--- W++ N o? K? w--- !O !M !V PS+ PE?
Y? PGP-- t- 5? X? R- tv- b+(++) DI D+ G++ !e !r !y
-----END GEEK CODE BLOCK-----


From gerrit@nl.linux.org  Wed Feb  2 14:51:10 2000
From: gerrit@nl.linux.org (Gerrit Holl)
Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2000 15:51:10 +0100
Subject: [Tutor] Rounding Floating Points
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.10.10001312106110.5781-100000@localhost.localdomain>; from blackgr@alltel.net on Mon, Jan 31, 2000 at 09:12:47PM -0500
References: <Pine.LNX.4.10.10001312106110.5781-100000@localhost.localdomain>
Message-ID: <20000202155110.A1172@stopcontact.palga.uucp>

Glynn Black wrote the following Perl code on 949349567:
> $output_label2_var = sprintf("%.2f", $output_label2_var);

output_label2_var = round(output_label2_var, 2)

regards,
Gerrit.

-- 
Please correct any bad Swahili you encounter in my email message!
-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK----- http://www.geekcode.com
Version: 3.12
GCS dpu s-:-- a14 C++++>$ UL++ P--- L+++ E--- W++ N o? K? w--- !O !M !V PS+ PE?
Y? PGP-- t- 5? X? R- tv- b+(++) DI D+ G++ !e !r !y
-----END GEEK CODE BLOCK-----


From future@dotstar.net  Thu Feb  3 19:10:51 2000
From: future@dotstar.net (Patrick Cooper)
Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2000 13:10:51 -0600
Subject: [Tutor] Making Window stay open, Python in Windows
Message-ID: <20000203191942148.AAA343@euler.dotstar.net@default>

I am trying to learn Python on a Windows 95 system.  I'm having the problem
that after a type a program and run it the window closes before I can view
the output.  How can I correct this?



From listen@MIDRAS.de  Thu Feb  3 20:30:01 2000
From: listen@MIDRAS.de (Jochen Haeberle)
Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2000 21:30:01 +0100
Subject: [Tutor] First python-script: a little network client
Message-ID: <v04220804b4bf943a6702@[192.168.1.5]>

Hi,

I m trying to do the first thing in python. I would like to query the
OANDA currency server for some exchange rates. I wanted to do a
simple script, modify it in some methods and form a class for
starters, as I am also beginning with OOP.

But I can't get it to work at all!

The protocoll specs for fxp is at
<http://www.oanda.com/site/fxp/protocol.html>, case someone's
interested.

The following script does not produce _anything_ in data :-( Is my
simple client so wrong or is there anything with Oanda I am not aware
of??

Where can I learn about doing easy network/socks clients?

# Currency Fetcher - fetch a conversion unit from OANDA
from socket import *
HOST = 'www.oanda.com'
PORT = 5011

sock = socket(AF_INET, SOCK_STREAM)
sock.connect(HOST, PORT)
sock.send('fxp/1.1\n')
sock.send('Query: quote\n')
sock.send('Quotecurrency: SFR\n')
sock.send('Basecurrency: EUR\n')

print 'Response:'
while 1:
	data = sock.recv(1024)
	print data
	if not data: break
sock.close


Jochen


From deirdre@deirdre.net  Thu Feb  3 21:57:18 2000
From: deirdre@deirdre.net (Deirdre Saoirse)
Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2000 13:57:18 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Tutor] First python-script: a little network client
In-Reply-To: <v04220804b4bf943a6702@[192.168.1.5]>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.10.10002031349340.7352-100000@adelie.deirdre.org>

On Thu, 3 Feb 2000, Jochen Haeberle wrote:

> The protocoll specs for fxp is at
> <http://www.oanda.com/site/fxp/protocol.html>, case someone's
> interested.

There's several problems with your implementation:

1) each request is supposed to be followed by a carriage return and line
feed. This is \r\n, not \n.

2) sock.close should be sock.close()

3) after sending the headers, you have to send a blank line before
receiving data.

Given the changes mentioned above, the following works though the server
doesn't like the currency:

from socket import *
HOST = 'www.oanda.com'
PORT = 5011

sock = socket(AF_INET, SOCK_STREAM)
sock.connect(HOST, PORT)
sock.send('fxp/1.1\r\n')
sock.send('Query: quote\r\n')
sock.send('Quotecurrency: SFR\r\n')
sock.send('Basecurrency: EUR\r\n')
sock.send('\r\n')

print 'Response:'
while 1:
        data = sock.recv(1024)
        print data
        if not data: break
sock.close()

-- 
_Deirdre   *   http://www.linuxcabal.net   *   http://www.deirdre.net
"Mars has been a tough target" -- Peter G. Neumann, Risks Digest Moderator
"That's because the Martians keep shooting things down." -- Harlan Rosenthal
<Harlan.Rosenthal@Dialogic.com>, retorting in Risks Digest 20.60




From ivanlan@callware.com  Thu Feb  3 21:57:37 2000
From: ivanlan@callware.com (Ivan Van Laningham)
Date: Thu, 03 Feb 2000 14:57:37 -0700
Subject: [Tutor] First python-script: a little network client
References: <v04220804b4bf943a6702@[192.168.1.5]>
Message-ID: <3899F9D1.BADA28FE@callware.com>

Hi All--

Jochen Haeberle wrote:
> 
> Hi,
> 
> I m trying to do the first thing in python. I would like to query the
> OANDA currency server for some exchange rates. I wanted to do a
> simple script, modify it in some methods and form a class for
> starters, as I am also beginning with OOP.
> 
> But I can't get it to work at all!
> 
> The protocoll specs for fxp is at
> <http://www.oanda.com/site/fxp/protocol.html>, case someone's
> interested.
> 
> The following script does not produce _anything_ in data :-( Is my
> simple client so wrong or is there anything with Oanda I am not aware
> of??
> 
> Where can I learn about doing easy network/socks clients?
> 
> # Currency Fetcher - fetch a conversion unit from OANDA
> from socket import *
> HOST = 'www.oanda.com'
> PORT = 5011
> 
> sock = socket(AF_INET, SOCK_STREAM)
> sock.connect(HOST, PORT)
> sock.send('fxp/1.1\n')
> sock.send('Query: quote\n')
> sock.send('Quotecurrency: SFR\n')
> sock.send('Basecurrency: EUR\n')
> 
> print 'Response:'
> while 1:
>         data = sock.recv(1024)
>         print data
>         if not data: break
> sock.close
> 
> Jochen
> 


Hi Jochen--
Your main problem here was that you didn't read the spec closely enough
(neither did I at first).  It says:

"Requests and responses are transmitted using the ASCII character set.
Each request consists of a number of lines of text, followed by a single
blank line. Each response consists of a number of lines of header text,
followed by a single blank line, optionally followed by a number of
lines of data, followed by a single blank line. All lines of text
(including blank lines) are terminated by the two character sequence
<carriage return> <line feed>. This retains compatibility with the
telnet protocol, and telnet can be used to send fxp requests to a
server. "

You weren't sending \r\n, and you weren't putting everything into one
packet.  When I ran your test currencies, it complained that it couldn't
recognize the quotecurrency.  So I changed it:

#!/usr/local/bin/python

# Currency Fetcher - fetch a conversion unit from OANDA
from socket import *
HOST = 'www.oanda.com'
sv = 5011

sock = socket(AF_INET, SOCK_STREAM)
hn = gethostbyname(HOST)
print HOST,"IP address",hn
sock.connect(hn, sv)

i=sock.send('fxp/1.1\r\n' 'Quotecurrency: JPY\r\n' 'Basecurrency:
USD\r\n' '\r\n')
print "characters sent",i
data = sock.recv(1024)
print "[%s]"%(data)
sock.close()
----------------------------------------------
Note also that the last line you send should be a blank line.

Hope this helps,
Ivan
----------------------------------------------
Ivan Van Laningham
Callware Technologies, Inc.
ivanlan@callware.com
ivanlan@home.com
http://www.pauahtun.org
See also: 
http://www.foretec.com/python/workshops/1998-11/proceedings.html
Army Signal Corps:  Cu Chi, Class of '70
Author:  Teach Yourself Python in 24 Hours
----------------------------------------------


From nconway@klamath.dyndns.org  Thu Feb  3 23:29:31 2000
From: nconway@klamath.dyndns.org (Neil Conway)
Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2000 18:29:31 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [Tutor] modifying array during 'for' loop?
Message-ID: <14490.3931.391688.547421@klamath.dyndns.org>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

I was just wondering if it is always okay to modify the array you are
looping through with a for loop (i.e. modify the array -during- the
for loop). Is it okay to delete the current item from the list? what
about items other than the current item? What about append items to
the end of the array, or slice the array?

I'm dealing with lists (scalar arrays) and tuples. If I'm not being
clear, I would be happy to provide example code.

While I'm on the topic, I have always assumed that a tuple is
marginally more efficient than a list. Is this true?

Thanks in advance,

Neil
- -- 
Neil Conway <neilconway@home.com>
Get my GnuPG key from: http://klamath.dyndns.org/mykey.asc

In the beginning the Universe was created. This has
made a lot of people very angry and been widely
regarded as a bad move.
        -- Douglas Adams
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Version: GnuPG v1.0.1 (FreeBSD)
Comment: Processed by Mailcrypt 3.5.5 and Gnu Privacy Guard <http://www.gnupg.org/>

iD8DBQE4mg9YgmYXwds8KfwRAtgsAKDICgZWkFUMNAKb0cCAcoqcHgDRuwCgnRgJ
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From chris@abcinteractive.com.au  Thu Feb  3 23:59:26 2000
From: chris@abcinteractive.com.au (Chris Carpenter)
Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2000 10:59:26 +1100
Subject: [Tutor] Making Window stay open, Python in Windows
References: <20000203191942148.AAA343@euler.dotstar.net@default>
Message-ID: <004601bf6ea2$b5675a70$0200a8c0@user02>

Hi Patrick,

i just started learning Python aswell, and ran into the same problem. I was
reading a tutorial called "Instant Hacking  Learn how to program with
Python" by Magnus Lie Hetland  and i used this to stop the window
dissapearing for a while:

#put this at the top of your code
from time import sleep

#put this at the end of your code, the number in brackets is the seconds the
program will sleep, thus leaving the window open on the desktop for that
long
sleep(30)

I'm not sure if thisis the best way to do it,(iv'e only been doing the
python thing for about 4 days)
But Hey, it worked for me.

good luck,

Chris Carpenter
WebMaster/IT Manager
ABC Interactive
http://www.abcinteractive.com.au
----- Original Message -----
From: Patrick Cooper <future@dotstar.net>
To: <tutor@python.org>
Sent: Friday, February 04, 2000 6:10 AM
Subject: [Tutor] Making Window stay open, Python in Windows


> I am trying to learn Python on a Windows 95 system.  I'm having the
problem
> that after a type a program and run it the window closes before I can view
> the output.  How can I correct this?
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Tutor maillist  -  Tutor@python.org
> http://www.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor
>
>




From ivanlan@callware.com  Thu Feb  3 23:45:10 2000
From: ivanlan@callware.com (Ivan Van Laningham)
Date: Thu, 03 Feb 2000 16:45:10 -0700
Subject: [Tutor] modifying array during 'for' loop?
References: <14490.3931.391688.547421@klamath.dyndns.org>
Message-ID: <389A1306.6E7602E0@callware.com>

Hi All--

Neil Conway wrote:
> 
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
> 
> I was just wondering if it is always okay to modify the array you are
> looping through with a for loop (i.e. modify the array -during- the
> for loop). Is it okay to delete the current item from the list? what
> about items other than the current item? What about append items to
> the end of the array, or slice the array?
> 
> I'm dealing with lists (scalar arrays) and tuples. If I'm not being
> clear, I would be happy to provide example code.
> 
> While I'm on the topic, I have always assumed that a tuple is
> marginally more efficient than a list. Is this true?
> 

It's never OK.  Something like it can be done, but it really is a form
of do-it-yourself brain surgery.

Never do

	for i in alist:
		alist.remove(i)

If you *insist* on modifying a list when you're looping on it, then the
closest you're going to get to safety (which ain't close) is to peel
things off the end of the list and make sure you never access them
again.  That is, look up the doc for range and get a range that counts
backwards.  Use the current index to remove or modify the item, as in

	for i in range(len(alist),-1,-1):
		del alist[i]

Tuples are more efficient in that they're read-only and don't have
methods.  But the only way to modify them, once created, is to nuke 'em
and recreate them.  If you're going to modify them, lists are more
efficient.

<hand-me-my-power-drill>-ly y'rs,
Ivan
----------------------------------------------
Ivan Van Laningham
Callware Technologies, Inc.
ivanlan@callware.com
ivanlan@home.com
http://www.pauahtun.org
See also: 
http://www.foretec.com/python/workshops/1998-11/proceedings.html
Army Signal Corps:  Cu Chi, Class of '70
Author:  Teach Yourself Python in 24 Hours
----------------------------------------------


From ivanlan@callware.com  Fri Feb  4 00:07:02 2000
From: ivanlan@callware.com (Ivan Van Laningham)
Date: Thu, 03 Feb 2000 17:07:02 -0700
Subject: [Tutor] Making Window stay open, Python in Windows
References: <20000203191942148.AAA343@euler.dotstar.net@default> <004601bf6ea2$b5675a70$0200a8c0@user02>
Message-ID: <389A1826.D3A1B1BE@callware.com>

Hi All--

Chris Carpenter wrote:
> 
> Hi Patrick,
> 
> i just started learning Python aswell, and ran into the same problem. I was
> reading a tutorial called "Instant Hacking  Learn how to program with
> Python" by Magnus Lie Hetland  and i used this to stop the window
> dissapearing for a while:
> 
> #put this at the top of your code
> from time import sleep
> 
> #put this at the end of your code, the number in brackets is the seconds the
> program will sleep, thus leaving the window open on the desktop for that
> long
> sleep(30)
> 
> I'm not sure if thisis the best way to do it,(iv'e only been doing the
> python thing for about 4 days)
> But Hey, it worked for me.
> 

It does work, but it's not what you want to do.

You have two easy choices:

1)  Use the interpreter interactively.  Open a DOS box, type "python"
and wait for the ">>>" prompt.  If it says "program not found", then go
to the directory where you have python installed and run it there.  Once
you have the >>> prompt, type your program in.  It will run each line as
it gets to it.

2)  Type your program into a file.  Give the file a .py suffix.  Open
your DOS box and type "python spam.py" (for instance).  Again, if DOS
complains that it can't find python, take your .py file and go to the
directory where python lives, and type "python spam.py" again.

2) is the most common choice, since it saves your program for later use.


I assume that you put your program into a file, and then double-clicked
on it from Windows. You're not ready to do that yet--you need to have
some knowledge of Tkinter before you can do it correctly.

<back-to-the-primordial-ooze>-ly y'rs,
Ivan
----------------------------------------------
Ivan Van Laningham
Callware Technologies, Inc.
ivanlan@callware.com
ivanlan@home.com
http://www.pauahtun.org
See also: 
http://www.foretec.com/python/workshops/1998-11/proceedings.html
Army Signal Corps:  Cu Chi, Class of '70
Author:  Teach Yourself Python in 24 Hours
----------------------------------------------


From listen@MIDRAS.de  Thu Feb  3 23:32:51 2000
From: listen@MIDRAS.de (Jochen Haeberle)
Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2000 00:32:51 +0100
Subject: [Tutor] First python-script: a little network client
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.10.10002031349340.7352-100000@adelie.deirdre.org>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.10.10002031349340.7352-100000@adelie.deirdre.org>
Message-ID: <v04220806b4bfbfd5aa26@[192.168.1.5]>

Hi Deidre,

thanks a lot - that was a fast and perfect help! I was not sure what
went wrong at what place, so I did not see the most obvious things!

At 13:57 Uhr -0800 03.02.2000, Deirdre Saoirse wrote:
>On Thu, 3 Feb 2000, Jochen Haeberle wrote:
>
>   > The protocoll specs for fxp is at
>   > <http://www.oanda.com/site/fxp/protocol.html>, case someone's
>   > interested.
>
>There's several problems with your implementation:
>
>1) each request is supposed to be followed by a carriage return and line
>feed. This is \r\n, not \n.

That' the most problematic error I guess. I thoghut \n is equal to
<cr><lf> (at least on my Mac)

>2) sock.close should be sock.close()

sure :-/

>3) after sending the headers, you have to send a blank line before
>receiving data.

Oh, I overlooked that one. Tell you I read it a dozen times! I guess
I would have noticed the last two if I only knew the first :-)

Thanks again

Jochen


From deirdre@deirdre.net  Fri Feb  4 00:55:56 2000
From: deirdre@deirdre.net (Deirdre Saoirse)
Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2000 16:55:56 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Tutor] First python-script: a little network client
In-Reply-To: <v04220806b4bfbfd5aa26@[192.168.1.5]>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.10.10002031653190.7352-100000@adelie.deirdre.org>

On Fri, 4 Feb 2000, Jochen Haeberle wrote:

> thanks a lot - that was a fast and perfect help! I was not sure what
> went wrong at what place, so I did not see the most obvious things!

It happens. :)

> >1) each request is supposed to be followed by a carriage return and line
> >feed. This is \r\n, not \n.
> 
> That' the most problematic error I guess. I thoghut \n is equal to
> <cr><lf> (at least on my Mac)

Macs use \r only. Windows uses \r\n. Unix uses \n only.

As a result, most protocols state explicitly what is expected at the end
of the line. In some cases if you're writing a server, you want to write
something that accepts any of the three conventions (regardless of what is
specified).

> Thanks again

No problem!

-- 
_Deirdre   *   http://www.linuxcabal.net   *   http://www.deirdre.net
"Mars has been a tough target" -- Peter G. Neumann, Risks Digest Moderator
"That's because the Martians keep shooting things down." -- Harlan Rosenthal
<Harlan.Rosenthal@Dialogic.com>, retorting in Risks Digest 20.60



From python-tutor@teleo.net  Fri Feb  4 01:47:28 2000
From: python-tutor@teleo.net (Patrick Phalen)
Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2000 17:47:28 -0800
Subject: [Tutor] Persistent store for a single integer
Message-ID: <00020318092404.01083@quadra.teleo.net>

I'm writing a CGI script which appends information gathered from a form
to a file, which in turn is to be FTP'd to the client once a day for
followup.

The specification requires that a Unique ID number be incremented and
assigned to every person filling out a form, and that ID then is
attached to each of the dozen or so individual fields at file writing
time.

The Unique ID is an integer starting at 1000000 and incrementing by 1
for each new "customer."

So, in other words, when I write the data to the file, I need to
determine the last-used integer, increment it and concatenate this
UniqueID to most of the fields.

What is a good persistence model for this integer? A file with a
mutex/lock? A pickled numeral? These seem kind of expensive.

Naturally, I want to avoid data corruption in the case where many people
might access the form at once, take arbitrary time to complete the
form, etc., without blocking people for lengthy periods.



From listen@MIDRAS.de  Fri Feb  4 09:40:48 2000
From: listen@MIDRAS.de (Jochen Haeberle)
Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2000 10:40:48 +0100
Subject: [Tutor] First python-script: a little network client
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.10.10002031653190.7352-100000@adelie.deirdre.org>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.10.10002031653190.7352-100000@adelie.deirdre.org>
Message-ID: <v04220800b4c04dc12c01@[192.168.1.5]>

Hi again,

my little currency script now happily runs along. The response comes
very quickly but the client sits and waits for a rather long time until
the connection gets closed or there's some sort of timeout I presume.

I am doing this on a Mac, where threading is not available and
therefore the socket-connection takes up all processor time not
allowing program switvhing.

Therefore the additional time for waiting for the timeout is rather
bad. I looked through some of the example scripts for socket clients
but they all do it about the same.

Is there another way for collecting the data sent to a socket or to
learn about the stop of a connection that might help?

This is how I am doing it now (taken from one of the demos and/or the
library reference from Guido.

Is this general the way python does this or is it Mac specific?

print 'Response:'
while 1:
	data = sock.recv(1024)
	print data
	if not data: break
sock.close()

Jochen


From steve@spvi.com  Fri Feb  4 11:06:39 2000
From: steve@spvi.com (Steve Spicklemire)
Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2000 06:06:39 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [Tutor] First python-script: a little network client
In-Reply-To: <v04220800b4c04dc12c01@[192.168.1.5]> (message from Jochen
 Haeberle on Fri, 4 Feb 2000 10:40:48 +0100)
References: <Pine.LNX.4.10.10002031653190.7352-100000@adelie.deirdre.org> <v04220800b4c04dc12c01@[192.168.1.5]>
Message-ID: <200002041106.GAA28347@acer.spvi.com>


Hi Jochen,

   I think that 'select' does work on the mac (see medusa) so you 
might look into that.

-steve

>>>>> "Jochen" == Jochen Haeberle <listen@MIDRAS.de> writes:

    Jochen> Hi again,

    Jochen> my little currency script now happily runs along. The
    Jochen> response comes very quickly but the client sits and waits
    Jochen> for a rather long time until the connection gets closed or
    Jochen> there's some sort of timeout I presume.

    Jochen> I am doing this on a Mac, where threading is not available
    Jochen> and therefore the socket-connection takes up all processor
    Jochen> time not allowing program switvhing.

    Jochen> Therefore the additional time for waiting for the timeout
    Jochen> is rather bad. I looked through some of the example
    Jochen> scripts for socket clients but they all do it about the
    Jochen> same.

    Jochen> Is there another way for collecting the data sent to a
    Jochen> socket or to learn about the stop of a connection that
    Jochen> might help?

    Jochen> This is how I am doing it now (taken from one of the demos
    Jochen> and/or the library reference from Guido.

    Jochen> Is this general the way python does this or is it Mac
    Jochen> specific?

    Jochen> print 'Response:' while 1: data = sock.recv(1024) print
    Jochen> data if not data: break sock.close()

    Jochen> Jochen

    Jochen> _______________________________________________ Tutor
    Jochen> maillist - Tutor@python.org
    Jochen> http://www.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor



From YankoC@gspinc.com  Fri Feb  4 11:55:11 2000
From: YankoC@gspinc.com (Yanko, Curtis (GSP))
Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2000 06:55:11 -0500
Subject: [Tutor] Making Window stay open, Python in Windows
Message-ID: <23EF0668B5D3D111A0CF00805F9FDC440205DDCE@SRV_EXCH1>

On Win9x you need to find the .PIF file for the shell and turn off it's
'close on exit' property. I think it is 'default' and in the Windows or
windows/system dir. If this gives you fits you can make a shortcut to
python.exe and set it there (the close on exit flag) and change your
association to point to the shortcut.

On NT the shortcut is the way to go since you can't get control of cmd.exe
easily. However, there are some other great tricks available. If you run the
interpreter and click on the python icon in the upper left you can set the
properties for the window. I like to make mine 40 rows long instead of the
default 25 and I up the buffer size to 200 or more so I can scroll back.
There are a lot of other settings in here to play with as well. When you
save these it'll make a PIF file that it'll use in all future launches.

-Curt Yanko

> -----Original Message-----
> From:	future@dotstar.net [SMTP:future@dotstar.net]
> Sent:	Thursday, February 03, 2000 2:11 PM
> To:	tutor@python.org
> Subject:	[Tutor] Making Window stay open, Python in Windows
> 
> I am trying to learn Python on a Windows 95 system.  I'm having the
> problem
> that after a type a program and run it the window closes before I can view
> the output.  How can I correct this?
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Tutor maillist  -  Tutor@python.org
> http://www.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor


From argoldman@mindspring.com  Fri Feb  4 20:01:45 2000
From: argoldman@mindspring.com (A. R. Goldman)
Date: Fri, 04 Feb 2000 15:01:45 -0500
Subject: [Tutor] my first (but probably not my last) questions...
Message-ID: <389B3029.1A0A54A3@mindspring.com>

--------------60288922147C00945AC3BC63
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Greetings:
I am relatively new to Python (5 Days) and to programming in
general (5 Days)... so I hope the you will forgive what are
probably very elementary problems:
1st: I cannot seem to save programs in pythonwin... I hit "save
as", pick my folder, and enter a name, followed by either .py,
.pyw, or .txt extensions (I've tried all three)... but the
programs never seem to arrive in the folder. The drop down menu
only gives me the "all files *.*" option... I don't know if this
is relevant.
2nd: I can save programs using idle... but can't seem to shut it
down. I shut down the shell window, and the DOS window freezes...
it won't respond to Ctrl-z. Ctrl-d, and (alas) not always to
ctrl-alt-del.
Finally: When I double click on any of the programs with the .py
extension, the DOS Window opens for a second or two and then
closes...
I don't know if these problems are related... or if the are
related to problems with installing the programs...
Many thanks in advance for you help... and for the great language
which makes the early steps in programming so much easier...
A.R. Goldman

--------------60288922147C00945AC3BC63
Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

<!doctype html public "-//w3c//dtd html 4.0 transitional//en">
<html>
Greetings:
<br>I am relatively new to Python (5 Days) and to programming in general
(5 Days)... so I hope the you will forgive what are probably very elementary
problems:
<br>1st: I cannot seem to save programs in pythonwin... I hit "save as",
pick my folder, and enter a name, followed by either .py, .pyw, or .txt
extensions (I've tried all three)... but the programs never seem to arrive
in the folder. The drop down menu only gives me the "all files *.*" option...
I don't know if this is relevant.
<br>2nd: I <i>can</i> save programs using idle... but can't seem to shut
it down. I shut down the shell window, and the DOS window freezes... it
won't respond to Ctrl-z. Ctrl-d, and (alas) not always to ctrl-alt-del.
<br>Finally: When I double click on any of the programs with the .py extension,
the DOS Window opens for a second or two and then closes...
<br>I don't know if these problems are related... or if the are related
to problems with installing the programs...
<br>Many thanks in advance for you help... and for the great language which
makes the early steps in programming so much easier...
<br>A.R. Goldman</html>

--------------60288922147C00945AC3BC63--



From Alexandre Passos" <atp@bahianet.com.br  Fri Feb  4 20:54:09 2000
From: Alexandre Passos" <atp@bahianet.com.br (Alexandre Passos)
Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2000 18:54:09 -0200
Subject: [Tutor] problems on PhotoImage Class(Tkinter)
Message-ID: <000301bf6f52$15b13680$5d5bdfc8@the-user>

I tried to make a program using PhotoImage Class on a Label widget.
All I get is a blank window


#! /usr/bin/env python
from Tkinter import *
root = Tk()
class Foo:
    def __init__(self):
        self.a='foo.gif'
        self.b = Label(root, text=2)
        self.b.pack()
        PhotoImage(self.b, format='gif', file=self.a, width=100, height=100)
app = Foo()
root.mainloop()







From deirdre@deirdre.net  Sat Feb  5 23:44:22 2000
From: deirdre@deirdre.net (Deirdre Saoirse)
Date: Sat, 5 Feb 2000 15:44:22 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Tutor] Persistent store for a single integer
In-Reply-To: <00020318092404.01083@quadra.teleo.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.10.10002051543260.24196-100000@adelie.deirdre.org>

On Thu, 3 Feb 2000, Patrick Phalen wrote:

> The Unique ID is an integer starting at 1000000 and incrementing by 1
> for each new "customer."
> 
> So, in other words, when I write the data to the file, I need to
> determine the last-used integer, increment it and concatenate this
> UniqueID to most of the fields.
> 
> What is a good persistence model for this integer? A file with a
> mutex/lock? A pickled numeral? These seem kind of expensive.

Actually, I typically use Gadfly (www.chordate.com) for this kind of
thing, especially with my sequence number additions.

> Naturally, I want to avoid data corruption in the case where many people
> might access the form at once, take arbitrary time to complete the
> form, etc., without blocking people for lengthy periods.

-- 
_Deirdre   *   http://www.linuxcabal.net   *   http://www.deirdre.net
"Mars has been a tough target" -- Peter G. Neumann, Risks Digest Moderator
"That's because the Martians keep shooting things down." -- Harlan Rosenthal
<Harlan.Rosenthal@Dialogic.com>, retorting in Risks Digest 20.60



From jjohnson@astound.net  Sun Feb  6 21:33:59 2000
From: jjohnson@astound.net (jiggity)
Date: Sun, 6 Feb 2000 13:33:59 -0800
Subject: [Tutor] First Program!
Message-ID: <002501bf70e9$e1845420$6e29db18@min.mn.bbnow.net>

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

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	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

I just learned Python and am wondering what type of program would be the =
easiest to try to write.  I am not looking for anything to fancy.  Just =
something to test what I can do.

------=_NextPart_000_0022_01BF70A6.D3271860
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<HTML><HEAD>
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http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
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<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I just learned Python and am wondering =
what type of=20
program would be the easiest to try to write.&nbsp; I am not looking for =

anything to fancy.&nbsp; Just something to test what I can=20
do.</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>

------=_NextPart_000_0022_01BF70A6.D3271860--



From gerrit@nl.linux.org  Sun Feb  6 20:56:17 2000
From: gerrit@nl.linux.org (Gerrit Holl)
Date: Sun, 6 Feb 2000 21:56:17 +0100
Subject: [Tutor] First Program!
In-Reply-To: <002501bf70e9$e1845420$6e29db18@min.mn.bbnow.net>; from jjohnson@astound.net on Sun, Feb 06, 2000 at 01:33:59PM -0800
References: <002501bf70e9$e1845420$6e29db18@min.mn.bbnow.net>
Message-ID: <20000206215617.A12414@stopcontact.palga.uucp>

jiggity wrote on 949840439:
> I just learned Python and am wondering what type of program would be the easiest to try to write.  I am not looking for anything to fancy.  Just something to test what I can do.

Write a program that takes a random number and asks the user to input
a number. If the user guesses to low, say so. If the user guesses to
high, say so. Count the number of turns the user needs to guess the
number, and tell him when he guessed the number.

The exercises in "Learning Python" are also an excellent exercise.

regards,
Gerrit.

-- 
-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK----- http://www.geekcode.com
Version: 3.12
GCS dpu s-:-- a14 C++++>$ UL++ P--- L+++ E--- W++ N o? K? w--- !O
!M !V PS+ PE? Y? PGP-- t- 5? X? R- tv- b+(++) DI D+ G++ !e !r !y
-----END GEEK CODE BLOCK----- moc.edockeeg.www//:ptth


From wesc@alpha.ece.ucsb.edu  Sun Feb  6 22:24:13 2000
From: wesc@alpha.ece.ucsb.edu (Wesley J. Chun)
Date: Sun, 6 Feb 2000 14:24:13 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Tutor] First Program!
Message-ID: <200002062224.OAA08450@alpha.ece.ucsb.edu>

    > Date: Sun, 6 Feb 2000 21:56:17 +0100
    > From: Gerrit Holl <gerrit.holl@pobox.com>
    > 
    > jiggity wrote on 949840439:
    > > I just learned Python and am wondering what type of program would be the easiest to try to write.  I am not looking for anything to fancy.  Just something to test what I can do.
    > 
    > Write a program that takes a random number and asks the user to input
    > a number. If the user guesses to low, say so. If the user guesses to
    > high, say so. Count the number of turns the user needs to guess the
    > number, and tell him when he guessed the number.


gerrit's example sounds like a worthy project.
here are some that like to give to my students:

1.  a. write a program to take a year (either as
    user input via raw_input) or hard-coded (not
    as fun) and output whether it is a leap year.
    
    b. then split up your program to put the leap
    year logic inside a function and have the main
    part of your program call just the function
    for a quick yes/no (1/0) result, then push the
    output to the screen.

    recall that a leap is divisible by 4, but not
    100, unless *that* is also divisible by 400.
    in other words, although 1800 and 1900 are
    divisible by 4, they are not divisible by 400,
    hence are not leap years.  2000 is a leap year;
    the next century leap yea won't come up again
    until 2400!!

2.  a. write code that will take a string and invert
    it.  in other words, create another string that
    is the same as the original string only going
    backwards!

    b. now either upgrade your program or come up
    with another way to:  take two strings and de-
    termine if they are palindromic (same backwards
    as forwards), i.e. bob, eve, kayak, etc.

    c. upgrade your program again to ignore spaces,
    case, and punctuation, so that it recognizes
    sentences like:  "Madam, I'm Adam." or "A man,
    a plan, a canal... Panama!"

have fun!!

-wesley
wesc@alpha.ece.ucsb.edu
http://www.roadkill.com/~wesc/cyberweb/


From Alexandre Passos" <atp@bahianet.com.br  Mon Feb  7 18:17:16 2000
From: Alexandre Passos" <atp@bahianet.com.br (Alexandre Passos)
Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2000 16:17:16 -0200
Subject: [Tutor] Random
Message-ID: <003101bf7197$92566880$6c5bdfc8@the-user>

How can I make a random number?




From wesc@alpha.ece.ucsb.edu  Mon Feb  7 18:42:43 2000
From: wesc@alpha.ece.ucsb.edu (Wesley J. Chun)
Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2000 10:42:43 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Tutor] Random
Message-ID: <200002071842.KAA14125@alpha.ece.ucsb.edu>

    > From: "Alexandre Passos" <atp@bahianet.com.br>
    > Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2000 16:17:16 -0200
    > 
    > How can I make a random number?


take a look at the 'whrandom' module.

in particular, there are mainly 5 functions of interest:

whrandom()	random number generator (RNG) constructor
randint(a,b)	retuns a random int i such that a <= i <= b
uniform(a,b)	retuns a random float f such that a <= i < b
random(a,b)	retuns a random float f such that 0.0 <= f < 1.0
choice()	choose a random sequence element

example:

>>> import whrandom
>>> rng = whrandom.whrandom()
>>> rng.randint(3, 40)
36
>>> rng.randint(3, 40)
23
>>> rng.randint(3, 40)
12
>>> rng.randint(3, 40)
18
>>> rng.randint(3, 40)
27

hope this helps!!

-wesley


From joanca@typerware.com  Mon Feb  7 19:54:31 2000
From: joanca@typerware.com (JoanCarles p Casas=?ISO-8859-1?Q?=edn?=)
Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2000 20:54:31 +0100
Subject: [Tutor] Random
Message-ID: <200002072010.PAA02554@python.org>

Alexandre Passos wrote:

>How can I make a random number?

import random

listofn = range(1,1000) #a list containing integers from 1 to 999
a = random.choice(listofn) #choice a random element from a list
print a


I don't know if there's a better way for doing it but this works for me...

Hope this helps,


JoanCarles


:::!!!:::
joanca@typerware.com

http://www.typerware.com



From shulag@netvision.net.il  Mon Feb  7 23:38:37 2000
From: shulag@netvision.net.il (shulag@netvision.net.il)
Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2000 01:38:37 +0200 (IST)
Subject: [Tutor] Use YOUR Software to update YOUR users
Message-ID: <DW40TV1K.Z4HR5LO0@netvision.net.il>

Dear Sir/Madam

We are sure that you already have a large number of customers and it will increase greatly in the near future. How would you like to know them better and be able to address them directly?

We enable customer relationship management for the software industry.

Softalker is an add-on to desktop software applications. It facilitates direct communication between Independent Software Vendor and all his customers: send information regarding new products and services, courses and conventions, new website content, usage tips, etc.  You can send high-impact multi-media messages through your application, so that customers receive important information in the most natural, unobtrusive and economic way. At the same time, you can gather valuable insights for product development and marketing.

Since you come to CeBIT, why don't we set up a short meeting, so we can show you that Softalker is the easiest way to achieve more sales and better customer understanding.

Sincerely Yours

Efi Paz

cebit@internum.com

+972-9-9514502

#####################
Visit Internum at CeBIT 2000
Hanover 24.2-1.3/2000

See Softalker in action, in our booth,
Hall 4, Stand A11
Our phone at the exhibition:
+49-511-89-53320

(6-2-00)


From adriane_longshor@hotmail.com  Tue Feb  8 21:12:09 2000
From: adriane_longshor@hotmail.com (age long)
Date: Tue, 08 Feb 2000 21:12:09 GMT
Subject: [Tutor] (no subject)
Message-ID: <20000208211209.79623.qmail@hotmail.com>

take me off your list please
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com



From craig@osa.att.ne.jp  Wed Feb  9 11:30:36 2000
From: craig@osa.att.ne.jp (Craig Hagerman)
Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2000 20:30:36 +0900
Subject: [Tutor] writing changes to a file
Message-ID: <v03102700b4c6fe0698f9@[165.76.249.5]>

Hi

Hope this isn't too elementary: I need some guidance in how to open and
existing file, write some changes to it and then then close it. So far I
have been creating a new file for the changed version like this:

input = open('file_one','r')
output = open('file_two','w')

However,  I don't always need to have two files. I only want to change all
instances of "x" to "y", or perhaps add some new lines to the existing
file, and then save the new version. Is it possible to open a file to write
some changes to it in one go?

Thanks,

Craig Hagerman




From wesc@alpha.ece.ucsb.edu  Wed Feb  9 11:52:17 2000
From: wesc@alpha.ece.ucsb.edu (Wesley J. Chun)
Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2000 03:52:17 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Tutor] writing changes to a file
Message-ID: <200002091152.DAA01308@alpha.ece.ucsb.edu>

    > Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2000 20:30:36 +0900
    > From: Craig Hagerman <craig@osa.att.ne.jp>
    > 
    > Hope this isn't too elementary: I need some guidance in how to open and
    > existing file, write some changes to it and then then close it. So far I
    > have been creating a new file for the changed version like this:
    > 
    > input = open('file_one','r')
    > output = open('file_two','w')
    > 
    > However,  I don't always need to have two files. I only want to change all
    > instances of "x" to "y", or perhaps add some new lines to the existing
    > file, and then save the new version. Is it possible to open a file to write
    > some changes to it in one go?


craig,

your quandry can be repeated across other languages as well,
not just Python.  depending on your situation, you can approach
them differently:

1) changing all instances of 'x' to 'y' (and similar)

if you have a text file (as opposed to a binary), this sounds
like a situation that calls for a simple filter than scans for
a particular string and replaces it with another.  you can ac-
complish this in Python, Perl, awk, or a unix shell script that
calls the 'sed' utilities.  if you want to do this in Python,
check out the 're' modules, which you can use to describe a
pattern to look for, as well as one to substitute with.


2) add some new lines to an existing file

if you want to just append to an existing file, use the append
mode:

	f = open(your_file, 'a')

if you want to both read *and* write to your existing file, use
update mode:

	f = open(your_file, 'r+')

the '+' means open the file for reading and writing, i.e.
update.  ('w+' means delete the existing file and open a new
one for read and write so be careful!) anyway, once you open
the file, you can use f.seek() and f.tell() to navigate within
the file.  if you are going to read and write to your file,
make sure you explicitly f.flush() between change of operations.


hope this helps!


-wesley

cyberbweb.consulting :: silicon.valley, ca
http://www.roadkill.com/~wesc/cyberweb/


From Gerrit <gerrit@nl.linux.org>  Wed Feb  9 16:08:08 2000
From: Gerrit <gerrit@nl.linux.org> (Gerrit Holl)
Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2000 17:08:08 +0100
Subject: [Tutor] Random
In-Reply-To: <200002072010.PAA02554@python.org>; from joanca@typerware.com on Mon, Feb 07, 2000 at 08:54:31PM +0100
References: <200002072010.PAA02554@python.org>
Message-ID: <20000209170808.A1276@stopcontact.palga.uucp>

JoanCarles p Casasín wrote on 949953271:
> Alexandre Passos wrote:
> 
> >How can I make a random number?
> 
> import random
> 
> listofn = range(1,1000) #a list containing integers from 1 to 999
> a = random.choice(listofn) #choice a random element from a list
> print a
> 
> 
> I don't know if there's a better way for doing it but this works for me...

It works, but the following has much better performance:
>>> import random
>>> random.randint(0, 1000)
67
It doesn't need to create a list. Consider:
>>> random.random() * 1000
786.880856997
>>> round(random.random() * 1000)
30.0
>>> int(round(random.random() * 1000))
74

regards,
Gerrit.

-- 
Homepage: http://www.nl.linux.org/~gerrit
-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK----- http://www.geekcode.com
Version: 3.12
GCS dpu s-:-- a14 C++++>$ UL++ P--- L+++ E--- W++ N o? K? w--- !O
!M !V PS+ PE? Y? PGP-- t- 5? X? R- tv- b+(++) DI D+ G++ !e !r !y
-----END GEEK CODE BLOCK----- moc.edockeeg.www//:ptth


From joanca@typerware.com  Wed Feb  9 18:01:12 2000
From: joanca@typerware.com (JoanCarles p Casas=?ISO-8859-1?Q?=edn?=)
Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2000 19:01:12 +0100
Subject: [Tutor] Random
Message-ID: <200002091752.MAA12807@python.org>

Gerrit Holl wrote:

>> import random
>> 
>> listofn = range(1,1000) #a list containing integers from 1 to 999
>> a = random.choice(listofn) #choice a random element from a list
>> print a
>> 
>> 
>> I don't know if there's a better way for doing it but this works for me...
>
>It works, but the following has much better performance:
>>>> import random
>>>> random.randint(0, 1000)
>67
>It doesn't need to create a list. Consider:
>>>> random.random() * 1000
>786.880856997
>>>> round(random.random() * 1000)
>30.0
>>>> int(round(random.random() * 1000))
>74

Thanks for the note.

My problem is that I think:
1) make things work
2) make things work in a clever way

But I use to stop once I get the first step and go for another thing. 
Thanks!


JoanCarles


:::!!!:::
joanca@typerware.com

http://www.typerware.com



From wesc@alpha.ece.ucsb.edu  Wed Feb  9 20:36:57 2000
From: wesc@alpha.ece.ucsb.edu (Wesley J. Chun)
Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2000 12:36:57 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Tutor] Dictionaries...
Message-ID: <200002092036.MAA05436@alpha.ece.ucsb.edu>

    > From: rhicks@rma.edu
    > Date: Wed, 9 Feb 100 13:10:17 +0000
    > 
    > On page 50 of "Learning Python" is makes the statement
    > that dictionaries in Python are randomized in their order
    > in order to provide quick lookup. I have talked to a
    > programmer buddy and he doesn't know why this is. Why does
    > an unordered list provide a quick lookup?


good question.  in order to answer you, your programmer buddy
would've had to take a data structures course!	;-)

regarding your inquiry, dictionaries in Python (like associa-
tive arrays or 'hashes' in Perl) are implemented as HASH TABLES,
which you can think of as large and sparsely-populated "arrays."
Hash tables use two data items for storage, keys and values.
For every key, there is a value associated with it, commonly
referred to as "key-value pairs."

hash tables are data structures that organize the order of the
data based on performing a calculation on your keys to find the
proper spot in the array for your values.  that calculation is
called a hash function, and depending on your key, it could 'map'
your value anywhere, but will always map it to the same place
(hence why dictionaries are called a 'mapping' type).  as a
result, all your values are as scattered as your keys are dif-
ferent, hence the disordering of all your data.  there are no
longer sequential indexes into your 'array' now.

your next obvious question then, is why?!?  well, to put it
simply, if you need to find something in a list, you would have
to traverse the data items, and if the size of your sequence is
very large, it will affect the performance (takes longer to go
thru everything).  but with a hash table, because you have a key,
you can get to its value immediately.  in other words, the speed
of hash lookups (which is already fast) will not slow down as the
size of the data gets larger and larger.


hope this helps!!  i'm sure others will chime in here as well.
hashing-ly y'rs,

-wesley

ps1 if you want ordering, you can suck the keys into a list
    and use the list's sort() method, then get the values
    in your sorted key order.

ps2 sometimes more than one key map to the same place... that
    is called a hash collision, so some spots would have to
    hold multiple values, but they are few and far in between.
    this is implemented at the lower-layers so you will not
    see this in Python dictionaries or Perl hashes.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - 
wesley j. chun
cyberweb.consulting :: silicon.valley, ca
http://www.roadkill.com/~wesc/cyberweb/
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - 


From sjblaw@cloudnet.com  Thu Feb 10 03:34:30 2000
From: sjblaw@cloudnet.com (Tom Janson)
Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2000 21:34:30 -0600
Subject: [Tutor] start programming
Message-ID: <006201bf7377$bdf7cf60$4bf1ddcc@tomlaptop>

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

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	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

I want to start programming.  I have download pyhon but need instuctions =
on creating, saving, and running the programs I make. Thank You.

-Future Programmer

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<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>I want to start programming.&nbsp; I =
have=20
download pyhon but need instuctions on creating, saving, and running the =

programs I make. Thank You.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>-Future =
Programmer</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>

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From warren@nightwares.com  Thu Feb 10 03:40:56 2000
From: warren@nightwares.com (Warren 'The Howdy Man' Ockrassa)
Date: Wed, 09 Feb 2000 21:40:56 -0600
Subject: [Tutor] start programming
References: <006201bf7377$bdf7cf60$4bf1ddcc@tomlaptop>
Message-ID: <38A23348.EFFF1DE5@nightwares.com>

> Tom Janson wrote:

> I want to start programming.  I have download pyhon but need
> instuctions on creating, saving, and running the programs I make.

Hey, welcome aboard! The best place to start your search is a liberal
and lengthy surf of the official Python site, http://www.python.org/ .
If you really probe in depth, you'll find resources there enough to
satisfy your curiosity for weeks, at least.

There are also suggestions there on what books to read, if you are a
hardcopy-documentation kind of person.

Enjoy!

--
    warren ockrassa | nightwares | mailto:warren@nightwares.com
         --    n   i   g   h   t   w   a   r   e   s    --
      director faq    lingo    tutorial    free files    links
                    http://www.nightwares.com/


From curtis.larsen@Covance.Com  Thu Feb 10 14:58:15 2000
From: curtis.larsen@Covance.Com (Curtis Larsen)
Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2000 08:58:15 -0600
Subject: [Tutor] Lost, and Asking for Dir()-ections
Message-ID: <s8a27dcf.081@madmail.truax.covance.com>

Probably a silly question, but I'm new to this object-oriented stuff.

When doing a dir(object) to see what functions/methods are available in
a script, how do I know if something is a function or a method?  I ask
because after I use dir() on a script, I try doing a
"scriptname.functionname() to call up the likely thing I want to do --
"urllib.test()" for example.

I tried doing this with a recent script I picked up, and after doing the
same thing ("scriptname.blah()"), it returned "<scriptname.objectname
instance at memorylocation>".  It wouldn't actually do what I was
looking for until I gave it an equation such as "x=scriptname.blah()". 
Then an "x" object was created with property values, etc., that
contained what I was looking for.

How would I recognize the need for using this equation notation in the
future?
(What's the diff?)

Yes, I know I can just read the script to further understand it -- and I
do that a lot -- but (as part of the whole "learning Python" process)
I'm interested in writing a script that does that on it's own for me.  I
can write a script that does vars() and dir() against scripts, checks
out any __doc__ stuff it finds, and then prints the results, but how
would I tell it to perceive the difference between
"scriptname.something(args)" working and having to do an
"x=scriptname.something(args)" to get the "something" to work?

(Can you tell I'm confused about this?)

Any suggestions, advice, pointing-in-the-right-direction, or
go-read-the-specific-docs-at-this-site information is welcome.

Thanks!
Curtis
 

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`
end


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From deirdre@deirdre.net  Thu Feb 10 17:58:36 2000
From: deirdre@deirdre.net (Deirdre Saoirse)
Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2000 09:58:36 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Tutor] start programming
In-Reply-To: <006201bf7377$bdf7cf60$4bf1ddcc@tomlaptop>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.10.10002100958160.28567-100000@adelie.deirdre.org>

On Wed, 9 Feb 2000, Tom Janson wrote:

> I want to start programming.  I have download pyhon but need
> instuctions on creating, saving, and running the programs I make. Thank
> You.

On Linux/Unix? Windows? Mac?

-- 
_Deirdre   *   http://www.linuxcabal.net   *   http://www.deirdre.net
"Mars has been a tough target" -- Peter G. Neumann, Risks Digest Moderator
"That's because the Martians keep shooting things down." -- Harlan Rosenthal
<Harlan.Rosenthal@Dialogic.com>, retorting in Risks Digest 20.60



From dyoo@hkn.EECS.Berkeley.EDU  Thu Feb 10 22:08:36 2000
From: dyoo@hkn.EECS.Berkeley.EDU (Daniel Yoo)
Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2000 14:08:36 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Tutor] Dictionaries
In-Reply-To: <20000210170011.2CBE21CDA6@dinsdale.python.org>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.10.10002101344520.5402-100000@hkn.EECS.Berkeley.EDU>

> Message: 3
> From: rhicks@rma.edu
> To: tutor@python.org
> Date: Wed, 9 Feb 100 13:10:17 +0000
> Subject: [Tutor] Dictionaries...
> 
> On page 50 of "Learning Python" is makes the statement that dictionaries in 
> Python are randomized in their order in order to provide quick lookup. I have 
> talked to a programmer buddy and he doesn't know why this is. Why does an 
> unordered list provide a quick lookup?

When they say unordered, they don't mean that the list has no pattern.
What they refer to is the function that, given a key, figures out where a
value is in the list.  What we need is a nice function that evenly
distributes the keys through the list, and it's this that makes the list
look "unordered".

Getting a list of keys off this table will give us an "unordered" list.  
The randomized part refers to the way the categories are chosen.  It's not
quite alphabetic; it does some extra stuff to make sure that the buckets
have the same distribution of elements.  So that's why the list's
unordered.



From dyoo@hkn.EECS.Berkeley.EDU  Fri Feb 11 07:32:32 2000
From: dyoo@hkn.EECS.Berkeley.EDU (Daniel Yoo)
Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2000 23:32:32 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Tutor] writing changes to a file
In-Reply-To: <20000209170008.46B421CD88@dinsdale.python.org>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.10.10002102328000.11760-100000@hkn.EECS.Berkeley.EDU>

> Hope this isn't too elementary: I need some guidance in how to open and
> existing file, write some changes to it and then then close it. So far I
> have been creating a new file for the changed version like this:
> 
> input = open('file_one','r')
> output = open('file_two','w')
> 
> However,  I don't always need to have two files. I only want to change all
> instances of "x" to "y", or perhaps add some new lines to the existing
> file, and then save the new version. Is it possible to open a file to write
> some changes to it in one go?

You can try to slurp up all the lines of the file, close the file, and
open it again as writable:


input = open('file_one', 'r')
lines = input.readlines()
input.close()
output = open('file_one', 'w')
...


You can manipulate lines, and then write lines back to output.



From andre@beta.telenordia.se  Fri Feb 11 18:03:40 2000
From: andre@beta.telenordia.se (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Andr=E9_Dahlqvist?=)
Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2000 19:03:40 +0100 (CET)
Subject: [Tutor] Using sockets or telnetlib to finger?
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0002111753030.8864-100000@sledgehammer>

Hello Python gurus

I am working on my first Python program, which will be used to finger a
host that reports the latest stable, development and pre-patch version of
the Linux kernel. I have come up with two different solutions on how to
finger the host, and since I'm new to Python I am not sure which of these
approaches is preferred. My first attempt was to use sockets:

sock = socket.socket(socket.AF_INET, socket.SOCK_STREAM)
sock.connect(HOST, PORT)
sock.send('\n')
while 1:
    kernel_info = sock.recv(1024)
    if not kernel_info:
        break

This solution seams to do the trick, but so does my next approach which 
uses telnetlib to telnet in to the finger port:

telnet = telnetlib.Telnet(HOST, PORT)
telnet.write('\n')
kernel_info = telnet.read_all()
telnet.close()

I myself prefer the telnetlib solution as it seams less "low-level", but
since I'm brand new to Python I would like to hear what you gurus have to
say about it.

Whatever approach I use I then need to grab the three version numbers from
the finger output that I have collected. The finger output will look like
this, where only the version numbers change:

[zeus.kernel.org]

    The latest stable version of the Linux kernel is:     2.2.14
    The latest beta version of the Linux kernel is:       2.3.43
    The latest prepatch (alpha) version *appears* to be:  2.3.44-4

I need to access the version numbers alone, since I want to translate the
rest of the text. To do this I have used what I think is an ugly  
method. What I do is that I split the string that contains this  
information with string.split(), and then access the version numbers 
directly in the resulting list using kernel_info[9], kernel_info[19] and
kernel_info[28]. It seams quiet safe to do it like this since the text,
apart from the version numbers, pretty much never changes, but is there
perhaps a equally simple solution that is less ugly? Could regular
expressions do the trick here, and if so can someone perhaps give an
example of how I would use them in this situation?

I have one last question, is this a correct way to have a string span
several lines:

a_string = "can I do this to have a string \
	   continue on a second line?"

Regards

André

===================================================================
André Dahlqvist <andre@beta.telenordia.se>
GnuPG Key ID:	0x70A2994A
Fingerprint: 	E947 3297 331C CA30 5B88  EDF2 A830 3EBE 70A2 994A
===================================================================






From bill.anderson@libc.org  Sat Feb 12 01:19:54 2000
From: bill.anderson@libc.org (Bill Anderson)
Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2000 18:19:54 -0700
Subject: [Tutor] Weighted Random numbers
Message-ID: <38A4B53A.C3A52B35@libc.org>

I am working on a bannerad system in Python (for Zope). I have most of
it functional, but I need to be able to weight certain selections, just
as with any of the myriad perl implementations. Anyone have any pointers
on a way to do this in python?

TIA, Bill

-- 
In flying I have learned that carelessness and overconfidence are 
usually far more dangerous than deliberately accepted risks. 
          -- Wilbur Wright in a letter to his father, September 1900


From wesc@alpha.ece.ucsb.edu  Sat Feb 12 11:16:03 2000
From: wesc@alpha.ece.ucsb.edu (Wesley J. Chun)
Date: Sat, 12 Feb 2000 03:16:03 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Tutor] Weighted Random numbers
Message-ID: <200002121116.DAA20152@alpha.ece.ucsb.edu>

    > Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2000 18:19:54 -0700
    > From: Bill Anderson <bill.anderson@libc.org>
    > 
    > I am working on a bannerad system in Python (for Zope). I have most of
    > it functional, but I need to be able to weight certain selections, just
    > as with any of the myriad perl implementations. Anyone have any pointers
    > on a way to do this in python?


the best way to do this is to choose from a weighted
list of 1 to 100 say, with each number representing a
percentage or proportion of the time an ad should be
chosen.  each ad would get a "range" based on the %age
of the time it should show.  the "odds" of all the
individual ads summed together should be 100.

for example, a heavily weight ad (from BigBucksAdAgency)
may get 50% and be given the segment from 1-50.  another
ad, not as prominent may get 25%, so it gets 51-75.  a
3rd and 4th ad get 10% each, so 76-85, and 86-95, re-
spectively, and the 5th and final ad gets 5%, 96-100.

when displaying a page, choose a random number from 1-100.
whose ad shows up depends on whose range was hit with the
chosen number.

now this is just a highly simplistic model that could
work with Python as well as other languages; i'm sure
you can grow it to fit your needs or come up with a
Python-only solution.  i haven't dug around the NumPy
module yet so i'm not sure if there is not already
something like this in there.  anyone?

hope this helps!!

-wesley
cyberweb.consulting :: silicon.valley, ca
http://www.roadkill.com/~wesc/cyberweb/


From wesc@alpha.ece.ucsb.edu  Sat Feb 12 11:31:03 2000
From: wesc@alpha.ece.ucsb.edu (Wesley J. Chun)
Date: Sat, 12 Feb 2000 03:31:03 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Tutor] Lost, and Asking for Dir()-ections
Message-ID: <200002121131.DAA20197@alpha.ece.ucsb.edu>

    > Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2000 08:58:15 -0600
    > From: "Curtis Larsen" <curtis.larsen@Covance.Com>
    > 
    > Probably a silly question, but I'm new to this object-oriented stuff.

aren't we all?!?	;-)

    > 
    > When doing a dir(object) to see what functions/methods are available in
    > a script, how do I know if something is a function or a method?  I ask
    > because after I use dir() on a script, I try doing a
    > "scriptname.functionname() to call up the likely thing I want to do --
    > "urllib.test()" for example.

right.  when you import a module and do a dir(module),
you get a list of valid attributes for that module,
whether it be a variable or function.

you had another question up there, regarding the difference
between a function and a method.  to put it simply, a
method is just a function defined for a class.  other than
that, functions and methods are pretty much the same, so
i'm not sure what you're asking there.

i think what you want to say is, "how can i tell if a module's
attribute is just a variable or a function that i can call?"

vars() is like an extended version of dir().  it shows not
only what the attributes are, but what their values are; and
from that, it is pretty easy to deduct what types they are.

    > 
    > I tried doing this with a recent script I picked up, and after doing the
    > same thing ("scriptname.blah()"), it returned "<scriptname.objectname
    > instance at memorylocation>".  It wouldn't actually do what I was
    > looking for until I gave it an equation such as "x=scriptname.blah()". 
    > Then an "x" object was created with property values, etc., that
    > contained what I was looking for.

what you did there is you accessed a class.  now this may
be confusing, but taking a class and making an instance out
of it works the *same way* as calling a function... but you
are not really doing that... it just *looks* like it.

if foo is a function, you would use foo() to call it right?
but if MyClass was a class, you would use MyClass() to create
an instance (object) of that class!  looks *are* deceiving!!

when you did module.MyClass() standalone above, you created
an instance of a class, but did not assign it to any variable,
so the interpreter just spit the instance back at you, hence
the <module.Class instance at XXXXX>.

when you did x=module.MyClass(), it correctly created the
instance for you, but because you assigned it to a variable,
the interpreter did not spit out that message.  i can guar-
antee you that if you did typed 'x' by itself right after
you did the x=module.MyClass(), it would give you the exact
same message: <module.Class instance at XXXXX>.

    > 
    > How would I recognize the need for using this equation notation in the
    > future? (What's the diff?)

from the above, we can see that you did two different things:

1) called a function in a module, i.e. urllib.test()
2) created a class instance (which also uses the "functional
    notation")... it appears you were calling a function when
    you weren't.

that's the difference.  the first example had nothing to do
with classes, so this "equation notation" was not necessary
because you were not creating an object.  (now it *is* pos-
sible that the function you execute returns an object to you
in which case it's a good idea to save it via the "equation
notation" you mentioned.)

in the second example you *are* creating an object, and that
is why you would need to save it... if you didn't, you would
not have any way to access that object or the goodies inside.


hope this helps!!

-wesley
cyberweb.consulting :: silicon.valley, ca
http://www.roadkill.com/~wesc/cyberweb/


From bill.anderson@libc.org  Sat Feb 12 22:40:43 2000
From: bill.anderson@libc.org (Bill Anderson)
Date: Sat, 12 Feb 2000 15:40:43 -0700
Subject: [Tutor] Weighted Random numbers
References: <200002121116.DAA20152@alpha.ece.ucsb.edu>
Message-ID: <38A5E16B.71DCA169@libc.org>

(x-posted to comp.lang.python in the hopes of reaching a wider audience
[esp re: NumPY]... hope nobody minds)

"Wesley J. Chun" wrote:
> 
>     > Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2000 18:19:54 -0700
>     > From: Bill Anderson <bill.anderson@libc.org>
>     >
>     > I am working on a bannerad system in Python (for Zope). I have most of
>     > it functional, but I need to be able to weight certain selections, just
>     > as with any of the myriad perl implementations. Anyone have any pointers
>     > on a way to do this in python?
> 
> the best way to do this is to choose from a weighted
> list of 1 to 100 say, with each number representing a
> percentage or proportion of the time an ad should be
> chosen.  each ad would get a "range" based on the %age
> of the time it should show.  the "odds" of all the
> individual ads summed together should be 100.
> 
> for example, a heavily weight ad (from BigBucksAdAgency)
> may get 50% and be given the segment from 1-50.  another
> ad, not as prominent may get 25%, so it gets 51-75.  a
> 3rd and 4th ad get 10% each, so 76-85, and 86-95, re-
> spectively, and the 5th and final ad gets 5%, 96-100.

That's a lot like what I was thinking. I as considering building a list
of banners, with the weight being the number of times the ad was in the
list. Then using whrandom, I'd select one. 

The only issue I see so far with the percentage method, is that it makes
management more of a headache. In order to set weights, I would need a
master page with all the banners, their weight percentage, and the
total. 

Hmmm ... some random unweighted-thoughts ...
I think the difference in these two methods are in the type of
weighting.
In my method, the weight is against a non-weighted ad, that is, an ad
with weight 1. An ad with weight 5 is 5x more likely to be seen than a
standard ad. In your method, the weight is relative to the other ads. An
ad with weight 5 will be seen 5% of the time. The difference is sublt,
but important, IMHO.

I guess unless I (or anyone else ;) can come up with a different method,
I'll probably wind up implementing them both, with an option to select
at system creation time.

Bill
-- 
In flying I have learned that carelessness and overconfidence are 
usually far more dangerous than deliberately accepted risks. 
          -- Wilbur Wright in a letter to his father, September 1900


From wesc@alpha.ece.ucsb.edu  Sat Feb 12 23:44:00 2000
From: wesc@alpha.ece.ucsb.edu (Wesley J. Chun)
Date: Sat, 12 Feb 2000 15:44:00 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Tutor] Weighted Random numbers
Message-ID: <200002122344.PAA01989@alpha.ece.ucsb.edu>

    > Date: Sat, 12 Feb 2000 15:40:43 -0700
    > From: Bill Anderson <bill.anderson@libc.org>
    > 
    > (x-posted to comp.lang.python in the hopes of reaching a wider audience
    > [esp re: NumPY]... hope nobody minds)

nah... they're Python-people!	;-)


    > 
    > "Wesley J. Chun" wrote:
    > > 
    > >     > Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2000 18:19:54 -0700
    > >     > From: Bill Anderson <bill.anderson@libc.org>
    > >     >
    > >     > I am working on a bannerad system in Python... I have most of
    > >     > it functional, but I need to be able to weight certain selections
    > > 
    > > the best way to do this is to choose from a weighted
    > > list of 1 to 100 say, with each number representing a
    > > percentage or proportion of the time an ad should be
    > > chosen.  each ad would get a "range" based on the %age
    > > of the time it should show.  the "odds" of all the
    > > individual ads summed together should be 100.
    > > 
    > > for example, a heavily weight ad (from BigBucksAdAgency)
    > > may get 50% and be given the segment from 1-50.  another
    > > ad, not as prominent may get 25%, so it gets 51-75.  a
    > > 3rd and 4th ad get 10% each, so 76-85, and 86-95, re-
    > > spectively, and the 5th and final ad gets 5%, 96-100.
    > 
    > That's a lot like what I was thinking. I as considering building a list
    > of banners, with the weight being the number of times the ad was in the
    > list. Then using whrandom, I'd select one. 
    > 
    > The only issue I see so far with the percentage method, is that it makes
    > management more of a headache. In order to set weights, I would need a
    > master page with all the banners, their weight percentage, and the
    > total. 

i think a separate thingy called an adserver would work best.
the adserver keeps inventory and manages all the ads, the
pages they should'can appear on, their weights, etc.  don't
let your webserver handle this logic... it should just make
a single call to the adserver to get the ad and that's it;
the processing power should all go to Apache and your users.

    > 
    > Hmmm ... some random unweighted-thoughts ...
    > I think the difference in these two methods are in the type of
    > weighting.
    > In my method, the weight is against a non-weighted ad, that is, an ad
    > with weight 1. An ad with weight 5 is 5x more likely to be seen than a
    > standard ad. In your method, the weight is relative to the other ads. An
    > ad with weight 5 will be seen 5% of the time. The difference is sublt,
    > but important, IMHO.

i agree.  again, this is just the first idea that popped out.
i'm sure some college professors and their minions are already
working on adservering algorithms by now!!  (this is, of course
in addition to all the methods that have been used by traditional
media for the last XXX years.)

we-shall-serve-them-proud-ly y'rs,

-wesley
cyberweb.consulting :: silicon.valley, ca
http://www.roadkill.com/~wesc/cyberweb/


From dworkin@ccs.neu.edu  Mon Feb 14 02:48:51 2000
From: dworkin@ccs.neu.edu (Justin Sheehy)
Date: 13 Feb 2000 21:48:51 -0500
Subject: [Tutor] Using sockets or telnetlib to finger?
In-Reply-To: André Dahlqvist's message of "Fri, 11 Feb 2000 19:03:40 +0100 (CET)"
References: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0002111753030.8864-100000@sledgehammer>
Message-ID: <vndk8k8wlbg.fsf@camelot-new.ccs.neu.edu>

Andr=E9 Dahlqvist <andre@beta.telenordia.se> writes:

> I myself prefer the telnetlib solution as it seams less "low-level", =
but
> since I'm brand new to Python I would like to hear what you gurus hav=
e to
> say about it.

I would say that either is fine.  If you prefer telnetlib, use it.

> Whatever approach I use I then need to grab the three version numbers=
 from
> the finger output that I have collected. The finger output will look =
like
> this, where only the version numbers change:
>=20
> [zeus.kernel.org]
>=20
>     The latest stable version of the Linux kernel is:     2.2.14
>     The latest beta version of the Linux kernel is:       2.3.43
>     The latest prepatch (alpha) version *appears* to be:  2.3.44-4
>=20
> I need to access the version numbers alone, since I want to translate=
 the
> rest of the text. To do this I have used what I think is an ugly=20=20
> method. What I do is that I split the string that contains this=20=20
> information with string.split(), and then access the version numbers=
=20
> directly in the resulting list using kernel_info[9], kernel_info[19] =
and
> kernel_info[28].

There are a number of ways.  If you are going to use string.split(),
you could first split on newlines and then split again, using the [-1]
index to get the last item from each line.

> Could regular expressions do the trick here, and if so can someone
> perhaps give an example of how I would use them in this situation?

One quick re-based solution could be something like:
re.findall('[\d\.\-]+', kernel_info)

> a_string =3D "can I do this to have a string \
> 	   continue on a second line?"

That depends on exactly what you mean by that statement.  That method
will let you compose strings over multiple lines, but the resulting
string will be a single line.

People generally use either use triple-quotes or escape codes.  That is:

>>> b =3D """this string occupies=20=20=20
... two lines"""

>>> c =3D "so does\nthis one"

I tend to use the latter more often, but it's a matter of style.

-Justin

=20


=20=20


From caughell@netrover.com  Tue Feb 15 11:55:35 2000
From: caughell@netrover.com (Caughell family)
Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2000 06:55:35 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [Tutor] my first program
Message-ID: <200002151155.GAA15273@river.netrover.com>

This is a little program I designed to test experimental odds against
theoretical odds.

There is a problem.

After much deliberation, I simplified the formula that I was using to make
the differentiation percentage with, which ended up doing the exact same
thing, just simpler.  However, the program still wouldn't work.  

The problem is that I don't know how to make a division become a real
number, especially when involving variables.  (I know that I can do 2/7.0
instead of 2/7 to make it a real result)

Thanks a lot!

Also, I've got one question involving real numbers in this python..  
is there any way that I can limit the number to a certain ammount of decimal
places?  will it be rounded or truncated, or automatically rounded up?

Thanks very much!!!



From alan.gauld@bt.com  Tue Feb 15 11:56:00 2000
From: alan.gauld@bt.com (alan.gauld@bt.com)
Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2000 11:56:00 -0000
Subject: [Tutor] Making Window stay open, Python in Windows
Message-ID: <5104D4DBC598D211B5FE0000F8FE7EB202DF6039@mbtlipnt02.btlabs.bt.co.uk>

> that after a type a program and run it the window closes 
> before I can view the output.  How can I correct this?

Start a DOS box on its own then at the DOS prompt CD into 
your python project directory and invoke python by typing:

C:\MyprojectDir> python spam.py

Where:
MyProjectDir is where you keep your python files and
spam.py is your program file

Alternatively:
Make sure your PYTHONPATH environment variable is 
set up (in autoexec.bat) to include any directories 
with your modules in. Then you can type from any 
Dos prompt:

C:\> python C:\MyProjectDir\spam.py

Then python will finish executing and the results will 
be displayed in the DOS box. You might want to make 
the DOS box 50 lines long to ensure you capture as 
much as possible...

Alan G.


From alan.gauld@bt.com  Tue Feb 15 12:44:55 2000
From: alan.gauld@bt.com (alan.gauld@bt.com)
Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2000 12:44:55 -0000
Subject: [Tutor] writing changes to a file
Message-ID: <5104D4DBC598D211B5FE0000F8FE7EB202DF603D@mbtlipnt02.btlabs.bt.co.uk>

> > file, and then save the new version. Is it possible to open 
> a file to write some changes to it in one go?

Yes, under certain circumstances.
In particular if X and Y are the exact same size in bytes you 
can replace in situ by opening the file with "r+" mode - read 
and write.

You can then search the file by reading one char at a time 
and you can then use the seek()/tell() function to find 
your position in the file and write() to put the new data there.

This is frought with danger and I don't recommend it unless 
there's a very good reason for not using an input/output 
file combination. (In fact I've only ever done it in C never 
in Python which has a slightly different write() mechanism... 
- it specifies how many bytwes to write)

But it should be possible...
Its much easier to replace the whole line (aka record) at a 
time but that's usually only practical if the records are 
fixed length.



From Emile van Sebille" <emile@fenx.com  Tue Feb 15 14:32:46 2000
From: Emile van Sebille" <emile@fenx.com (Emile van Sebille)
Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2000 06:32:46 -0800
Subject: [Tutor] my first program
References: <200002151155.GAA15273@river.netrover.com>
Message-ID: <06e701bf77c1$8ba05fc0$01ffffc0@worldnet.att.net>

>>> a = 1
>>> b = 3.0
>>> print a/b
0.333333333333
>>> b = 3
>>> print a/float(b)
0.333333333333
>>> print a/b
0
>>> print round(a/float(b),2)
0.33
>>>

HTH

Emile van Sebille
emile@fenx.com
-------------------


----- Original Message -----
From: Caughell family <caughell@netrover.com>
To: <tutor@python.org>
Sent: Tuesday, February 15, 2000 3:55 AM
Subject: [Tutor] my first program


> This is a little program I designed to test experimental odds against
> theoretical odds.
>
> There is a problem.
>
> After much deliberation, I simplified the formula that I was using to
make
> the differentiation percentage with, which ended up doing the exact
same
> thing, just simpler.  However, the program still wouldn't work.
>
> The problem is that I don't know how to make a division become a real
> number, especially when involving variables.  (I know that I can do
2/7.0
> instead of 2/7 to make it a real result)
>
> Thanks a lot!
>
> Also, I've got one question involving real numbers in this python..
> is there any way that I can limit the number to a certain ammount of
decimal
> places?  will it be rounded or truncated, or automatically rounded up?
>
> Thanks very much!!!
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Tutor maillist  -  Tutor@python.org
> http://www.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor
>





From curtis.larsen@Covance.Com  Tue Feb 15 15:24:43 2000
From: curtis.larsen@Covance.Com (Curtis Larsen)
Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2000 09:24:43 -0600
Subject: [Tutor] Lost, and Asking for Dir()-ections
Message-ID: <s8a91b78.005@madmail.truax.covance.com>

Thanks, that did help me out (explains a lot too)!

Curtis

>>> "Wesley J. Chun" <wesc@alpha.ece.ucsb.edu> 02/12/00 05:31AM >>>

<snip>
<Wrote a whole ton of stuff that was pretty durn good reading.>

begin 644 TEXT.htm
M/"%$3T-465!%($A434P@4%5"3$E#("(M+R]7,T,O+T141"!(5$U,(#0N,"!4
M<F%N<VET:6]N86PO+T5.(CX-"CQ(5$U,/CQ(14%$/@T*/$U%5$$@8V]N=&5N
M=#TB=&5X="]H=&UL.R!C:&%R<V5T/6ES;RTX.#4Y+3$B(&AT='`M97%U:78]
M0V]N=&5N="U4>7!E/@T*/$U%5$$@8V]N=&5N=#TB35-(5$U,(#4N,#`N,CDQ
M.2XV,S`W(B!N86UE/4=%3D52051/4CX\+TA%040^#0H\0D]$62!B9T-O;&]R
M/2-F9F9F9F8@#0IS='EL93TB1D].5#H@,3!P="!!<FEA;#L@34%21TE.+4Q%
M1E0Z(#)P>#L@34%21TE.+51/4#H@,G!X(CX-"CQ$258^5&AA;FMS+"!T:&%T
M(&1I9"!H96QP(&UE(&]U="`H97AP;&%I;G,@82!L;W0@=&]O*2$\+T1)5CX-
M"CQ$258^)FYB<W`[/"]$258^#0H\1$E6/D-U<G1I<SPO1$E6/@T*/$1)5CXF
M;F)S<#L\+T1)5CX-"CQ$258^)F=T.R9G=#LF9W0[(")797-L97D@2BX@0VAU
M;B(@)FQT.W=E<V-`86QP:&$N96-E+G5C<V(N961U)F=T.R`P,B\Q,B\P,"`-
M"C`U.C,Q04T@)F=T.R9G=#LF9W0[/$)2/CQ"4CXF;'0[<VYI<"9G=#L\+T1)
M5CX-"CQ$258^)FQT.U=R;W1E(&$@=VAO;&4@=&]N(&]F('-T=69F('1H870@
M=V%S('!R971T>2!D=7)N(&=O;V0@<F5A9&EN9RXF9W0[/"]$258^#0H\1$E6
A/CQ"4CXF;F)S<#L\+T1)5CX\+T)/1%D^/"](5$U,/@T*
`
end


-----------------------------------------------------
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From caughell@netrover.com  Wed Feb 16 04:04:47 2000
From: caughell@netrover.com (Caughell family)
Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2000 23:04:47 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [Tutor] real numbers and variables
Message-ID: <200002160404.XAA19473@river.netrover.com>

There was a lady named Emile van Sebille that helped me out with my real
number problem, and included a small program to illustrate the solution.
Thank you very much Emile!  

However, I now have another question!!  How would you go about getting rid
of the last decimal place on a number when you're printing it?  

Possibly this will help me do things like 

Print '$',d   (to two decimal places)

and allow me to display    $4.50      instead of $ 4.5


So far I've downloaded about 6 basic programs in python (that taught me
input and raw_input  !!), which I haven't fully gone through, and I've read
to the beginning of chapter (section?) 5 in Guido's tutorial.

I'm having a little trouble understanding lists but I will probably just go
on until it clicks.



From caughell@netrover.com  Wed Feb 16 04:32:01 2000
From: caughell@netrover.com (Caughell family)
Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2000 23:32:01 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [Tutor] On top of my last message..
Message-ID: <200002160432.XAA20628@river.netrover.com>

I would also like to thank Moshe Zadka, who sent a reply with a lot of
information and a little recommended reading.  He also answered what was
going to be my next question!  

I remember clearly thinking, after hitting send, "I hope I don't ask a
question that someone has already answered.."    Next time I promise to read
my entire In Box!  Sorry.

However, I still don't know how to make something print without adding spaces 
between variables.  

Nor do I know how to clear a screen (I just printed a bunch of lines in my
first program!), nor do I know how to use the equivalent of the gotoxy
command from Pascal, or I would have been able to just jump to the point of
the dollar sign.

Thanks a lot, guys!

Take care,
Dave.



From Edanalea@cs.com  Wed Feb 16 09:27:48 2000
From: Edanalea@cs.com (Edanalea@cs.com)
Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2000 04:27:48 EST
Subject: [Tutor] new
Message-ID: <6b.1ae5ac9.25dbc794@cs.com>

Dear, Python
      
       I new at all this and would like to know where to start


                                                  THANK YOU

                                                        TOM.


From strat_addict@yahoo.com  Wed Feb 16 11:13:03 2000
From: strat_addict@yahoo.com (G. Norton)
Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2000 03:13:03 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Tutor] Coming back to Python
Message-ID: <20000216111303.6078.qmail@web1406.mail.yahoo.com>

Hello Pythoneers,
After spending some time with other languages(C)I'm
eager to start up Python once more.I would like to
connect with some other Python beginner's(or anyone)
to share ideas, build a project etc.I'm not sure where
to do this(possibly through Deja.com)or just through
email.I felt that I learned C much faster when I
bounced ideas around and collaborated with other's.I
urge anyone interested to contact me at:
              strat_addict@yahoo.com
                                    Thanks,
                                       G.T.Norton
                           
                          Let's get something started!

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger.
http://im.yahoo.com


From alan.gauld@bt.com  Wed Feb 16 17:48:30 2000
From: alan.gauld@bt.com (alan.gauld@bt.com)
Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2000 17:48:30 -0000
Subject: [Tutor] On top of my last message..
Message-ID: <5104D4DBC598D211B5FE0000F8FE7EB202DF604B@mbtlipnt02.btlabs.bt.co.uk>

> However, I still don't know how to make something print 
> without adding spaces between variables.  

Use format strings:

print "%d%d%s" % (12,24,"Here it is")

Should print;

1224Here it is

> Nor do I know how to clear a screen (I just printed a bunch 
> of lines in my first program!)

Umm, thats actually quite hard!
On a PC you can be sure of the display equipment and so its 
easy but when you go multi platform - like python you have 
to cope with lots of different way to clear the screen 
- what does that mean on a Mac or in BeOS exactly?!

Even in unix theres a plethora of terminal types and you 
would have to read the terminal database to identify the 
correct codes etc.

Unless your desparate I'd stick to writing lots of lines!

The other approach is move the code to a GUI framework 
like Tkinter. Its probably easier than trying to write 
platform independant terminal hanbdling IMHO!

> , nor do I know how to use the equivalent of the gotoxy

Again that's platform dependant. Indeed on some terminals 
the functionality just isn't there! Consider what X and Y mean
on different platforms - character positions(as in DOS) or 
pixels? If you are programming using Pythonwin on a PC under 
windows you can do GoToXY using the Windows API but it uses 
pixels within the current window...

Alan G.


From emack@glade.net  Wed Feb 16 18:47:49 2000
From: emack@glade.net (emack)
Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2000 12:47:49 -0600
Subject: [Tutor] tutor 3.2
Message-ID: <011901bf78ae$53c00900$a0b04c3f@oemcomputer>

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

------=_NextPart_000_0116_01BF787C.082B5A80
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

I'm a beginner [don't know anything about "C"} and i read in 3.2 of the =
tutorial "The standard comparison operators are written the same as in =
C: <, >, =3D=3D, <=3D, >=3D and !=3D. "  I'm guessing that !=3D means =
"is not equal to". Is that correct?  Of course i'll find out if/when i =
see it used, maybe.
regards,=20
abu

------=_NextPart_000_0116_01BF787C.082B5A80
Content-Type: text/html;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-1" =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.00.2014.210" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#008000>I'm a beginner [don't know anything about =
"C"} and i=20
read in 3.2 of the tutorial "The standard comparison operators are =
written the=20
same as in C: &lt;, &gt;, =3D=3D, &lt;=3D, &gt;=3D and !=3D. "&nbsp; I'm =
guessing that !=3D=20
means "is not equal to". Is that correct?&nbsp; Of course i'll find out =
if/when=20
i see it used, maybe.<BR>regards, </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#008000>abu</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>

------=_NextPart_000_0116_01BF787C.082B5A80--



From deirdre@deirdre.net  Wed Feb 16 19:03:07 2000
From: deirdre@deirdre.net (Deirdre Saoirse)
Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2000 11:03:07 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Tutor] tutor 3.2
In-Reply-To: <011901bf78ae$53c00900$a0b04c3f@oemcomputer>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.10.10002161102360.12715-100000@adelie.deirdre.org>

On Wed, 16 Feb 2000, emack wrote:

> I'm a beginner [don't know anything about "C"} and i read in 3.2 of the
> tutorial "The standard comparison operators are written the same as in
> C:
> <, >, ==, <=, >= and !=. "  I'm guessing that != means "is not equal
> to". Is that correct?  Of course i'll find out if/when i see it used,
> maybe.

Yes, exactly. != means not equal to.

-- 
_Deirdre   *   http://www.linuxcabal.net   *   http://www.deirdre.net
"Mars has been a tough target" -- Peter G. Neumann, Risks Digest Moderator
"That's because the Martians keep shooting things down." -- Harlan Rosenthal
<Harlan.Rosenthal@Dialogic.com>, retorting in Risks Digest 20.60



From warren@nightwares.com  Wed Feb 16 19:07:02 2000
From: warren@nightwares.com (Warren 'The Howdy Man' Ockrassa)
Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2000 13:07:02 -0600
Subject: [Tutor] tutor 3.2
References: <011901bf78ae$53c00900$a0b04c3f@oemcomputer>
Message-ID: <38AAF556.5D3431C7@nightwares.com>

> emack wrote:

> I'm guessing that != means "is not equal to". Is that correct?

Yes.

--WthmO


From cleber@gibraltar.com.br  Wed Feb 16 20:09:34 2000
From: cleber@gibraltar.com.br (Cleber Dantas Silva)
Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2000 17:09:34 -0300
Subject: [Tutor] Web Server
Message-ID: <001301bf78b9$c8e4e470$022aa8c0@mystation.com>

Hello,

I work in a auction site in Brazil, and I´m doing tests with python in the
server.
I need an information about the python and IIS...
If I download the Python 1.5, I need other software to call a file  ".py" in
a HTML file ?
Like "<FORM METHOD="POST" ACTION="sample1.py">" ...
I work with IIS and ASP ...
I need the Bobo or Medusa ?

Thank´s

Cleber





From Gerrit <gerrit@nl.linux.org>  Wed Feb 16 19:38:27 2000
From: Gerrit <gerrit@nl.linux.org> (Gerrit Holl)
Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2000 20:38:27 +0100
Subject: [Tutor] tutor 3.2
In-Reply-To: <011901bf78ae$53c00900$a0b04c3f@oemcomputer>; from emack@glade.net on Wed, Feb 16, 2000 at 12:47:49PM -0600
References: <011901bf78ae$53c00900$a0b04c3f@oemcomputer>
Message-ID: <20000216203827.A2935@stopcontact.palga.uucp>

emack wrote on 950701669:
> I'm a beginner [don't know anything about "C"} and i read in 3.2 of the tutorial "The standard comparison operators are written the same as in C: <, >, ==, <=, >= and !=. "  I'm guessing that != means "is not equal to". Is that correct?  Of course i'll find out if/when i see it used, maybe.
> regards, 
> abu

Abu,

if you wan't to know what something does, you should really just
try it out! Start your Python interpreter, and type it in! What
happens if you type in "a != b"? You get a NameError. But if you
type in "1 != 2", you get '1'! And if you type "1 != [", You get
a SyntaxError!

Learning to program is really just trying things about, especially with
Python!

regards,
Gerrit.

-- 
cat: /home/gerrit/.signature: No such file or directory


From emack@glade.net  Wed Feb 16 20:25:55 2000
From: emack@glade.net (emack)
Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2000 14:25:55 -0600
Subject: [Tutor] try it
Message-ID: <01a501bf78bc$078366a0$a0b04c3f@oemcomputer>

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

------=_NextPart_000_01A2_01BF7889.BC28B3E0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

>if you wan't to know what something does, you should really just
>try it out! Start your Python interpreter, and type it in!=20
>regards,
>Gerrit.

Gerrit-
Great idea. Next time I'll do that.
Thanks,
abu
PS: Thanks to you all!

------=_NextPart_000_01A2_01BF7889.BC28B3E0
Content-Type: text/html;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-1" =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.00.2014.210" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#008000>&gt;if you wan't to know what something does, =
you=20
should really just<BR>&gt;try it out! Start your Python interpreter, and =
type it=20
in! <BR>&gt;regards,<BR>&gt;Gerrit.<BR><BR>Gerrit-</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#008000>Great idea. Next time I'll do =
that.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#008000>Thanks,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#008000>abu</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#008000>PS: Thanks to you =
all!</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>

------=_NextPart_000_01A2_01BF7889.BC28B3E0--



From Moshe Zadka <mzadka@geocities.com>  Wed Feb 16 22:03:23 2000
From: Moshe Zadka <mzadka@geocities.com> (Moshe Zadka)
Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2000 00:03:23 +0200 (IST)
Subject: [Tutor] tutor 3.2
In-Reply-To: <011901bf78ae$53c00900$a0b04c3f@oemcomputer>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.10.10002170002000.24625-100000@sundial>

On Wed, 16 Feb 2000, emack wrote:

> I'm a beginner [don't know anything about "C"} and i read in 3.2 of the
> tutorial "The standard comparison operators are written the same as in C:
> <, >, ==, <=, >= and !=. "  I'm guessing that != means "is not equal
> to". Is that correct?  Of course i'll find out if/when i see it used,
> maybe.
> regards, 
> abu

Yes, != is not equal. You can also use <>, but it's less popular.

Note that == is the equality operator, not =, which is assignment.
--
Moshe Zadka <mzadka@geocities.com>. 
INTERNET: Learn what you know.
Share what you don't.



From JRhodes@brightoptions.com  Wed Feb 16 22:30:56 2000
From: JRhodes@brightoptions.com (Joe Rhodes)
Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2000 17:30:56 -0500
Subject: [Tutor] Coming back to Python
Message-ID: <6BD56A704B9CD311A96E0090278613601279E0@BOPGWY>

I would be interested in this "team learning"
that you suggest.  I have no coding experience
at all, if that matters to you.  

-----Original Message-----
From: G. Norton [mailto:strat_addict@yahoo.com]
Sent: Wednesday, February 16, 2000 6:13 AM
To: tutor@python.org
Subject: [Tutor] Coming back to Python


Hello Pythoneers,
After spending some time with other languages(C)I'm
eager to start up Python once more.I would like to
connect with some other Python beginner's(or anyone)
to share ideas, build a project etc.I'm not sure where
to do this(possibly through Deja.com)or just through
email.I felt that I learned C much faster when I
bounced ideas around and collaborated with other's.I
urge anyone interested to contact me at:
              strat_addict@yahoo.com
                                    Thanks,
                                       G.T.Norton
                           
                          Let's get something started!

__________________________________________________
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Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger.
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_______________________________________________
Tutor maillist  -  Tutor@python.org
http://www.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor


From skip@mojam.com (Skip Montanaro)  Thu Feb 17 17:40:41 2000
From: skip@mojam.com (Skip Montanaro) (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2000 11:40:41 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [Tutor] tutor 3.2
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.4.10.10002170002000.24625-100000@sundial>
References: <011901bf78ae$53c00900$a0b04c3f@oemcomputer>
 <Pine.GSO.4.10.10002170002000.24625-100000@sundial>
Message-ID: <14508.12953.701914.800646@beluga.mojam.com>

    Moshe> Yes, != is not equal. You can also use <>, but it's less popular.

I believe <> will be deprecated in the 1.6 release.  I sent a patch for the
tutorial to python-doc that gives brief definitions of the various
relational operators.

Skip Montanaro | http://www.mojam.com/
skip@mojam.com | http://www.musi-cal.com/
"Languages that change by catering to the tastes of non-users tend not to do
so well." - Doug Landauer


From nothingisgoingtochangemyworld@yahoo.com  Fri Feb 18 18:27:59 2000
From: nothingisgoingtochangemyworld@yahoo.com (Joseph Stubenrauch)
Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2000 10:27:59 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Tutor] A few newbie questions ...
Message-ID: <20000218182759.5595.qmail@web1905.mail.yahoo.com>

Hello,

I am new to programming and brand new to Python and,
of course, I have a few questions.  Thanks in advance
for any help you can offer and bear with my ignorance!

1.  Can someone point me to the module (if it exists)
that would allow me to do such C++ type things as
clearscreen, change the background/foreground colors,
and especially, a python equivalent of C++'s gotoxy.

2.  Is it possible to have input be either a string or
number, depending on what the user inputs?  In other
words, I would like to create a menu with options
#1-4, and option X and Q to quit.  Is that possible?

I would love any help you can offer.  I just
downloaded python two days ago and I am LOVING it!  

Thanks again,

joe
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger.
http://im.yahoo.com


From deirdre@deirdre.net  Fri Feb 18 18:36:15 2000
From: deirdre@deirdre.net (Deirdre Saoirse)
Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2000 10:36:15 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Tutor] A few newbie questions ...
In-Reply-To: <20000218182759.5595.qmail@web1905.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.10.10002181032161.29011-100000@adelie.deirdre.org>

On Fri, 18 Feb 2000, Joseph Stubenrauch wrote:

> 1.  Can someone point me to the module (if it exists)
> that would allow me to do such C++ type things as
> clearscreen, change the background/foreground colors,
> and especially, a python equivalent of C++'s gotoxy.

Typically, that's a function of the terminal. You don't say what you're
using (Unix or ?), but in Unix that's a function of curses.

> 2.  Is it possible to have input be either a string or
> number, depending on what the user inputs?  In other
> words, I would like to create a menu with options
> #1-4, and option X and Q to quit.  Is that possible?

You can try and convert a string to a number and assume it's a string if
that fails:

a = "foo"
try:
 b = int(a)
except:
 b = a

print b

> I would love any help you can offer.  I just
> downloaded python two days ago and I am LOVING it!  

Cool!

-- 
_Deirdre   *   http://www.linuxcabal.net   *   http://www.deirdre.net
"Mars has been a tough target" -- Peter G. Neumann, Risks Digest Moderator
"That's because the Martians keep shooting things down." -- Harlan Rosenthal
<Harlan.Rosenthal@Dialogic.com>, retorting in Risks Digest 20.60



From Moshe Zadka <mzadka@geocities.com>  Fri Feb 18 18:38:20 2000
From: Moshe Zadka <mzadka@geocities.com> (Moshe Zadka)
Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2000 20:38:20 +0200 (IST)
Subject: [Tutor] A few newbie questions ...
In-Reply-To: <20000218182759.5595.qmail@web1905.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.10.10002182036310.6054-100000@sundial>

On Fri, 18 Feb 2000, Joseph Stubenrauch wrote:

> 1.  Can someone point me to the module (if it exists)
> that would allow me to do such C++ type things as
> clearscreen, change the background/foreground colors,
> and especially, a python equivalent of C++'s gotoxy.

On UNIX, you have the curses module. Have a look at the win32 extensions
for windows.

--
Moshe Zadka <mzadka@geocities.com>. 
INTERNET: Learn what you know.
Share what you don't.



From alan.gauld@bt.com  Fri Feb 18 17:16:26 2000
From: alan.gauld@bt.com (alan.gauld@bt.com)
Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2000 17:16:26 -0000
Subject: [Tutor] tutor 3.2
Message-ID: <5104D4DBC598D211B5FE0000F8FE7EB202DF605A@mbtlipnt02.btlabs.bt.co.uk>

>     Moshe> Yes, != is not equal. You can also use <>, but 
> it's less popular.
> 
> I believe <> will be deprecated in the 1.6 release.  

Ooh I hope not, I always use <> in my own code 
- I'm an ex Pascal programmer at heart :-)

Alan g.


From louie1@adelphia.net  Fri Feb 18 19:39:42 2000
From: louie1@adelphia.net (Luis)
Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2000 14:39:42 -0500
Subject: [Tutor] Please take me off the List
Message-ID: <000d01bf7a47$e7f011c0$5843fea9@dad.adelphia.net>

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

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i would like to be taken of the list please, can you please help me in =
doing so
thank you,
Louie
Louie1@adelphia.net

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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-1" =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.00.2614.3500" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>i would like to be taken of the list =
please, can=20
you please help me in doing so</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>thank you,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Louie</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial =
size=3D2>Louie1@adelphia.net</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>

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From alan.gauld@bt.com  Mon Feb 21 11:15:07 2000
From: alan.gauld@bt.com (alan.gauld@bt.com)
Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2000 11:15:07 -0000
Subject: [Tutor] A few newbie questions ...
Message-ID: <5104D4DBC598D211B5FE0000F8FE7EB202DF605B@mbtlipnt02.btlabs.bt.co.uk>

> 1.  Can someone point me to the module (if it exists)
> that would allow me to do such C++ type things as
> clearscreen, change the background/foreground colors,
> and especially, a python equivalent of C++'s gotoxy.

None of these are C++ things - the C++ standard library 
doesn't do any of them - they are typically PC things
(in fact DOS things). These are possible in an exclusively 
DOS world because you know what kind of hardware you will 
be using. Python is multi platform and doesn't know whether 
the terminal even has a screen, far less how to clear it.

Similarly it may not be able to show colors etc.

On unix there is a module called curses that does that 
for you within the limits of an ASCII display. 

But what happens inside a GUI window? What does 
gotoXY mean - pixels or character opositions?..

On windows there is a python module pythonwin that gives 
you access to the Win32 API, but thats quite hard to use 
for a beginner. I'd suggest moving your code to Tkinter 
- which works on unix, mac and PC.

You can see some examples on my online tutor(see Event 
Driven programming and the case study)

http://www.crosswinds.net/~agauld/

> 2.  Is it possible to have input be either a string or
> number, depending on what the user inputs?  In other
> words, I would like to create a menu with options
> #1-4, and option X and Q to quit.  Is that possible?

Yes, just use raw_input and compare character values:

from sys import exit
def func1():
    	print "func1"

MenuItem = { 	'1': func1, 
		'2': func1, 
		'3':func1, 
		'4':func1, 
		'Q':exit,
		'X':exit }

options = MenuItem.keys()
resp = raw_input("prompt")
if resp in options:
	MenuItem[resp]()
else: print "Invalid choice"

Should do it.

Alan G.


From wesc@alpha.ece.ucsb.edu  Fri Feb 18 22:07:43 2000
From: wesc@alpha.ece.ucsb.edu (Wesley J. Chun)
Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2000 14:07:43 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Tutor] A few newbie questions ...
Message-ID: <200002182207.OAA04670@alpha.ece.ucsb.edu>

    > Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2000 10:36:15 -0800 (PST)
    > From: Deirdre Saoirse <deirdre@deirdre.net>
    > 
    > On Fri, 18 Feb 2000, Joseph Stubenrauch wrote:
    > 
    > > 2.  Is it possible to have input be either a string or
    > > number, depending on what the user inputs?  In other
    > > words, I would like to create a menu with options
    > > #1-4, and option X and Q to quit.  Is that possible?
    > 
    > You can try and convert a string to a number and assume it's a string if
    > that fails:
    > 
    > a = "foo"
    > try:
    >  b = int(a)
    > except:
    >  b = a
    > 
    > print b


fortunately, you have a recent version of Python.

prior to 1.5, int(string) fails.  if your application
required backwards-compatibility to older systems (if
any, it would be 1.4), you would have to use the tried-
and-true string.atoi() function:

C:\>python
Python 1.3 (Apr 13 1996) [MSC 32 bit (Intel)]
Copyright 1991-1995 Stichting Mathematisch Centrum, Amsterdam
>>> int('4')
Traceback (innermost last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
TypeError: int() argument can't be converted to int
>>> import string
>>> string.atoi('4')
4
>>>


otherwise, either way [int() or string.atoi()] would work.


one suggestion i have as a side project for you is to write
a "menu" function or class that helped you with text-based
menu-generation.  it would take a list of all items, perhaps
choose a default selection (if the user just hits return,
provides error messages on invalid entries, automatically
generates the menu item numbers, etc.

once you accomplish this, you can generically use this
piece of code anywhere you have a menu-driven interface
and not have to reinvent the wheel every time.

hope this helps!!

-wesley
cyberweb.consulting :: silicon.valley, ca
http://www.roadkill.com/~wesc/cyberweb/


From deirdre@deirdre.net  Fri Feb 18 22:15:12 2000
From: deirdre@deirdre.net (Deirdre Saoirse)
Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2000 14:15:12 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Tutor] A few newbie questions ...
In-Reply-To: <200002182207.OAA04670@alpha.ece.ucsb.edu>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.10.10002181414310.31132-100000@adelie.deirdre.org>

On Fri, 18 Feb 2000, Wesley J. Chun wrote:

> fortunately, you have a recent version of Python.
> 
> prior to 1.5, int(string) fails.

Oops! You're right, I'm new to Python with 1.5. 

-- 
_Deirdre   *   http://www.linuxcabal.net   *   http://www.deirdre.net
"Mars has been a tough target" -- Peter G. Neumann, Risks Digest Moderator
"That's because the Martians keep shooting things down." -- Harlan Rosenthal
<Harlan.Rosenthal@Dialogic.com>, retorting in Risks Digest 20.60



From strat_addict@yahoo.com  Mon Feb 21 19:23:39 2000
From: strat_addict@yahoo.com (G. Norton)
Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2000 11:23:39 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Tutor] New Python study group
Message-ID: <20000221192339.5735.qmail@web1406.mail.yahoo.com>

We would like to invite anyone new to Python or
programming in general to visit our new Python study
group.The group was created to be a place to make
friends, exchange ideas, collaborate on projects and
above all, become better Python programmer's.Also, the
group will hold bi-monthly or monthly meetings to
discuss specific topics or to just meet and
chat.(attendence is not mandatory!).People with an
open mind and a desire to learn are urged to join.
    With that said,the following is not allowed:

No flaming.
Any posted question related to hacking (e.g. cracking)
will be ignored!.
No spamming.

Our address is:
http://python-studies-subscribe@egroups.com
or for more information, drop a line to:
strat_addict@yahoo.com
                     Hope to see you there.
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger.
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From jjgarcia@ieci.net  Tue Feb 22 08:09:59 2000
From: jjgarcia@ieci.net (Juan Jose Garcia Garcia)
Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2000 09:09:59 +0100
Subject: [Tutor] (no subject)
Message-ID: <38B24457.285D0960@ieci.net>

suscribe
--
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Juan Jose Garcia
INFORMATICA EL CORTE INGLES S.A.
Departamento de Desarrollo de Plataformas Sectoriales
Laboratorio StoreFlow
Avda. de Cantabria, 51
28042 - MADRID
e-mail: juanj_garcia@ieci.es
Tfno:  91-329-82-00 Ext. 8442
Movil: 629-08-56-73
Fax: 91-329-54-59
---------------------------------------------------------------------




From craig@osa.att.ne.jp  Tue Feb 22 13:15:28 2000
From: craig@osa.att.ne.jp (Craig Hagerman)
Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2000 22:15:28 +0900
Subject: [Tutor] The what and why of StringVar()
Message-ID: <v03102702b4d83a16ffc3@[165.76.248.35]>

I am wondering if someone can help explain "StringVar()" to me.  I was
trying to write a simple program using Tkinter to take input from an Entry
widget and then use a button command to pass it off to a function to do
something. But I was unsuccessful in accessing the variable attached to the
Entry widget itself. (I still don't understand why.)

After poking about in the "DEMO's" Folder I found a demo in the "Matt"
folder that allowed me to get around this problem by using StringVar().
However I don't understand why this is used, how it works or why I need it.
So far I can't find any documentation either on line of in my 3 Python
books (hope I didn't stupidly overlook something). Seeing as how this is a
necessary way to access the Entry widget variable I would like to
understand it. I thought that perhaps this method is part of the string
module (since Matt's script imports that module, and dir(string) shows
StringVar being a method) but it works without importing the string module.

Any help would be appreciated. I will copy Matt's example script below
minus comments so that you can see what I am talking about.

Craig Hagerman

		-----Matt's entry-with-shared-variable.py script-----


from Tkinter import *
import string

# This program  shows how to make a typein box shadow a program variable.

class App(Frame):
    def __init__(self, master=None):
	Frame.__init__(self, master)
	self.pack()

	self.entrythingy = Entry(self)
	self.entrythingy.pack()

	self.button = Button(self, text="Uppercase The Entry",
			     command=self.upper)
	self.button.pack()

	self.contents = StringVar()
	self.contents.set("this is a variable")
	self.entrythingy.config(textvariable=self.contents)

	self.entrythingy.bind('<Key-Return>', self.print_contents)

    def upper(self):


	str = string.upper(self.contents.get())
	self.contents.set(str)

    def print_contents(self, event):
	print "hi. contents of entry is now ---->", self.contents.get()

root = App()
root.master.title("Foo")
root.mainloop()





From JeremyHo@flashcom.com  Tue Feb 22 15:22:37 2000
From: JeremyHo@flashcom.com (Jeremy Howard)
Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2000 07:22:37 -0800
Subject: [Tutor] Question about output parameters
Message-ID: <29E02FADFCBBD311B24E0008C75B936E0C7DCB@west8.hb.flashcom.com>

This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand
this format, some or all of this message may not be legible.

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Hello all,



I've got a question regarding Python and the way it handles output
parameters.  Here is the code I'm using.....

>>> import win32com.client
>>> objSiebel =
win32com.client.Dispatch("SiebelDataServer.ApplicationObject")
>>> err = 0
>>> conf = "C:\\Siebel\\bin\\psblprd.cfg"
>>> objSiebel.LoadObjects(conf, err)

when I fire off the last line I get this error....

Traceback (innermost last):
  File "<interactive input>", line 0, in ?
  File "<COMObject SiebelDataServer.ApplicationObject>", line 2, in
LoadObjects
com_error: (-2147352571, 'Type mismatch.', None, 2)

the LoadObjects Function requires two parameters the first one is the
location of the config file and is a string.  The Second is the value
returned from the fuction and is an Integer.  Anyone have any ideas on ways
to get around this error.

Jeremy Howard
jeremyho@flashcom.com



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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
<HTML>
<HEAD>
<META HTTP-EQUIV=3D"Content-Type" CONTENT=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Diso-8859-1">
<META NAME=3D"Generator" CONTENT=3D"MS Exchange Server version =
5.5.2650.12">
<TITLE>Question about output parameters </TITLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">Hello all,</FONT>
</P>
<BR>
<BR>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">I've got a question regarding Python =
and the way it handles output parameters.&nbsp; Here is the code I'm =
using.....</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Courier">&gt;&gt;&gt; =
import win32com.client</FONT>
<BR><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Courier">&gt;&gt;&gt; =
objSiebel =3D =
win32com.client.Dispatch(&quot;SiebelDataServer.ApplicationObject&quot;)=
</FONT>
<BR><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Courier">&gt;&gt;&gt; err =
=3D 0</FONT>
<BR><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Courier">&gt;&gt;&gt; conf =
=3D &quot;C:\\Siebel\\bin\\psblprd.cfg&quot;</FONT>
<BR><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Courier">&gt;&gt;&gt; =
objSiebel.LoadObjects(conf, err)</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">when I fire off the last line I get =
this error....</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT COLOR=3D"#FF0000" SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Courier">Traceback =
(innermost last):</FONT>
<BR><FONT COLOR=3D"#FF0000" SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Courier">&nbsp; File =
&quot;&lt;interactive input&gt;&quot;, line 0, in ?</FONT>
<BR><FONT COLOR=3D"#FF0000" SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Courier">&nbsp; File =
&quot;&lt;COMObject SiebelDataServer.ApplicationObject&gt;&quot;, line =
2, in LoadObjects</FONT>
<BR><FONT COLOR=3D"#FF0000" SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Courier">com_error: =
(-2147352571, 'Type mismatch.', None, 2)</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">the LoadObjects Function requires two =
parameters the first one is the location of the config file and is a =
string.&nbsp; The Second is the value returned from the fuction and is =
an Integer.&nbsp; Anyone have any ideas on ways to get around this =
error.</FONT></P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">Jeremy Howard</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">jeremyho@flashcom.com</FONT>
</P>
<BR>

</BODY>
</HTML>
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From Gtnorton64@aol.com  Tue Feb 22 16:49:39 2000
From: Gtnorton64@aol.com (Gtnorton64@aol.com)
Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2000 11:49:39 EST
Subject: [Tutor] Python Study Group/URL
Message-ID: <78.1ca2514.25e41823@aol.com>

If you were interested in the study group and had trouble with the url, I 
apologize.
Try this one :
http://www.egroups.com/group/python-studies/info.html

Regards,
G.T. Norton


From JeremyHo@flashcom.com  Tue Feb 22 16:53:03 2000
From: JeremyHo@flashcom.com (Jeremy Howard)
Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2000 08:53:03 -0800
Subject: [Tutor] FW: Question about output parameters
Message-ID: <29E02FADFCBBD311B24E0008C75B936E0C7DCC@west8.hb.flashcom.com>

This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand
this format, some or all of this message may not be legible.

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	charset="iso-8859-1"



>  -----Original Message-----
> From: 	Jeremy Howard  
> Sent:	Tuesday, February 22, 2000 7:23 AM
> To:	'tutor@python.org'
> Subject:	Question about output parameters 
> 
> Hello all,
> 
> 
> 
> I've got a question regarding Python and the way it handles output
> parameters.  Here is the code I'm using.....
> 
> >>> import win32com.client
> >>> objSiebel =
> win32com.client.Dispatch("SiebelDataServer.ApplicationObject")
> >>> err = 0
> >>> conf = "C:\\Siebel\\bin\\psblprd.cfg"
> >>> objSiebel.LoadObjects(conf, err)
> 
> when I fire off the last line I get this error....
> 
> Traceback (innermost last):
>   File "<interactive input>", line 0, in ?
>   File "<COMObject SiebelDataServer.ApplicationObject>", line 2, in
> LoadObjects
> com_error: (-2147352571, 'Type mismatch.', None, 2)
> 
> the LoadObjects Function requires two parameters the first one is the
> location of the config file and is a string.  The Second is the value
> returned from the fuction and is an Integer.  Anyone have any ideas on
> ways to get around this error.
> 
> Jeremy Howard
> jeremyho@flashcom.com
> 
> 

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	charset="iso-8859-1"
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<HTML>
<HEAD>
<META HTTP-EQUIV=3D"Content-Type" CONTENT=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Diso-8859-1">
<META NAME=3D"Generator" CONTENT=3D"MS Exchange Server version =
5.5.2650.12">
<TITLE>FW: Question about output parameters </TITLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY>
<BR>
<BR>

<P><FONT FACE=3D"Arial"></FONT>&nbsp;<FONT SIZE=3D1 =
FACE=3D"Tahoma">-----Original Message-----</FONT>
<BR><B><FONT SIZE=3D1 FACE=3D"Tahoma">From: &nbsp;</FONT></B> <FONT =
SIZE=3D1 FACE=3D"Tahoma">Jeremy Howard&nbsp; </FONT>
<BR><B><FONT SIZE=3D1 FACE=3D"Tahoma">Sent:&nbsp;&nbsp;</FONT></B> =
<FONT SIZE=3D1 FACE=3D"Tahoma">Tuesday, February 22, 2000 7:23 =
AM</FONT>
<BR><B><FONT SIZE=3D1 =
FACE=3D"Tahoma">To:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;</FONT></B> <FONT SIZE=3D1 =
FACE=3D"Tahoma">'tutor@python.org'</FONT>
<BR><B><FONT SIZE=3D1 =
FACE=3D"Tahoma">Subject:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;</FONT=
></B> <FONT SIZE=3D1 FACE=3D"Tahoma">Question about output parameters =
</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">Hello all,</FONT>
</P>
<BR>
<BR>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">I've got a question regarding Python =
and the way it handles output parameters.&nbsp; Here is the code I'm =
using.....</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Courier">&gt;&gt;&gt; =
import win32com.client</FONT>
<BR><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Courier">&gt;&gt;&gt; =
objSiebel =3D =
win32com.client.Dispatch(&quot;SiebelDataServer.ApplicationObject&quot;)=
</FONT>
<BR><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Courier">&gt;&gt;&gt; err =
=3D 0</FONT>
<BR><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Courier">&gt;&gt;&gt; conf =
=3D &quot;C:\\Siebel\\bin\\psblprd.cfg&quot;</FONT>
<BR><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Courier">&gt;&gt;&gt; =
objSiebel.LoadObjects(conf, err)</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">when I fire off the last line I get =
this error....</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT COLOR=3D"#FF0000" SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Courier">Traceback =
(innermost last):</FONT>
<BR><FONT COLOR=3D"#FF0000" SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Courier">&nbsp; File =
&quot;&lt;interactive input&gt;&quot;, line 0, in ?</FONT>
<BR><FONT COLOR=3D"#FF0000" SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Courier">&nbsp; File =
&quot;&lt;COMObject SiebelDataServer.ApplicationObject&gt;&quot;, line =
2, in LoadObjects</FONT>
<BR><FONT COLOR=3D"#FF0000" SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Courier">com_error: =
(-2147352571, 'Type mismatch.', None, 2)</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">the LoadObjects Function requires two =
parameters the first one is the location of the config file and is a =
string.&nbsp; The Second is the value returned from the fuction and is =
an Integer.&nbsp; Anyone have any ideas on ways to get around this =
error.</FONT></P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">Jeremy Howard</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">jeremyho@flashcom.com</FONT>
</P>
<BR>

</BODY>
</HTML>
------_=_NextPart_001_01BF7D55.490CE61C--


From chedr@voicenet.com  Wed Feb 23 20:25:18 2000
From: chedr@voicenet.com (chedr)
Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2000 15:25:18 -0500
Subject: [Tutor] 'text editor'
Message-ID: <38B4422E.47929FF4@voicenet.com>

Hi,
I'm totaly new at this so bear with me.
Where do I get a text editor?
This is what I've done so far: Downloaded and installed py152.exe;
Downloaded but haven't installed  win32all.exe build 125; bought a copy
of "Learning Python" by Mark Lutz;  got to page 13  where it says
"suppose we start our favorite text editor".
Do I have a text editor and don't know it?   Help!
Thanks,
Chet




From DOUGS@oceanic.com  Wed Feb 23 20:42:03 2000
From: DOUGS@oceanic.com (Doug Stanfield)
Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2000 10:42:03 -1000
Subject: [Tutor] 'text editor'
Message-ID: <5650A1190E4FD111BC7E0000F8034D26A0F30D@huina.oceanic.com>

I'm assuming since you've downloaded the win32all.exe that you use a Windows
platform.  In future that kind of information can help us to answer your
questions.  Any word processor is a text editor so you have several to
choose from; notepad, word pad, or even MS Word.  I wouldn't necessarily
recommend any of those for programming Python though.

Based on the above assumption, you should know that the Windows install of
Python has a very good development system that includes an editor written in
Python by the languages founder.  If you look in the directories that were
installed by the Python installer you'll find 'Tools' with a subdirectory
'idle'.  Within that directory is the executable idle.pyw.  Start that
executable in any of the usual ways and you'll have a Python shell to play
in.  Its the best place to learn the use of new functionality.  Use the
'File' menu to open a 'New Window', and you'll have not just a text editor,
but a Python editor with keyword colorizing and automatic indentation among
other things.

HTH,
-Doug-

> -----Original Message-----
> From: chedr [mailto:chedr@voicenet.com]
> Sent: Wednesday, February 23, 2000 10:25 AM
> To: tutor@python.org
> Subject: [Tutor] 'text editor'
> 
> 
> Hi,
> I'm totaly new at this so bear with me.
> Where do I get a text editor?
> This is what I've done so far: Downloaded and installed py152.exe;
> Downloaded but haven't installed  win32all.exe build 125; 
> bought a copy
> of "Learning Python" by Mark Lutz;  got to page 13  where it says
> "suppose we start our favorite text editor".
> Do I have a text editor and don't know it?   Help!
> Thanks,
> Chet
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Tutor maillist  -  Tutor@python.org
> http://www.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor
> 


From bwinton@tor.dhs.org  Wed Feb 23 21:34:38 2000
From: bwinton@tor.dhs.org (Blake Winton)
Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2000 16:34:38 -0500
Subject: [Tutor] 'text editor'
In-Reply-To: <5650A1190E4FD111BC7E0000F8034D26A0F30D@huina.oceanic.com>
References: <5650A1190E4FD111BC7E0000F8034D26A0F30D@huina.oceanic.com>
Message-ID: <00022316382600.31301@tor.dhs.org>

On Wed, 23 Feb 2000, Doug Stanfield wrote:
> Any word processor is a text editor so you have several to
> choose from; notepad, word pad, or even MS Word.  I wouldn't necessarily
> recommend any of those for programming Python though.

I dunno, Notepad isn't all that bad for editing Python...  :)

> Based on the above assumption, you should know that the Windows
> install of Python has a very good development system that includes
> an editor written in Python by the languages founder.  If you look
> in the directories that were installed by the Python installer
> you'll find 'Tools' with a subdirectory 'idle'.  Within that
> directory is the executable idle.pyw.

As a side note, I believe that when you install Python in Windows, it
puts a link to Idle in the start menu
(i.e. Start >> Programs >> Python >> Idle)
And that might be a better way to get to it than looking through the
file system, especially for someone who's starting Python, and might
not know how to run a .pyw file.

Just a thought,
Blake.
-- 
12:21pm up 16 days, 17:56, 0 users, load average: 7.08, 7.02, 7.01


From ecogburn@greene.xtn.net  Wed Feb 23 21:54:44 2000
From: ecogburn@greene.xtn.net (Ed Cogburn)
Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2000 21:54:44 +0000
Subject: [Tutor] 'text editor'
References: <38B4422E.47929FF4@voicenet.com>
Message-ID: <38B45724.255000BA@greene.xtn.net>

chedr wrote:
> 
> Hi,
> I'm totaly new at this so bear with me.
> Where do I get a text editor?
> This is what I've done so far: Downloaded and installed py152.exe;
> Downloaded but haven't installed  win32all.exe build 125; bought a copy
> of "Learning Python" by Mark Lutz;  got to page 13  where it says
> "suppose we start our favorite text editor".
> Do I have a text editor and don't know it?   Help!


	I haven't worked any on MSWin in awhile since using Linux, but there
is a wonderful text editor, freely available, for the Windows world
called "Programmer's File Editor" or "pfe".  The last time I went
looking for it, its home page was:
	http://www.lancs.ac.uk/people/cpaap/pfe/


-- 
"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong." - Voltaire

Ed C.


From Brian.Lamarche@pnl.gov  Wed Feb 23 22:11:12 2000
From: Brian.Lamarche@pnl.gov (Lamarche, Brian L)
Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2000 14:11:12 -0800
Subject: [Tutor] FW: Menu Bars and Entry config
Message-ID: <DDB3627D4995D211AE890008C7A49DB08C3F4D@PNLMSE14.pnl.gov>


----------
From: 	Lamarche, Brian L
Sent: 	Wednesday, February 23, 2000 2:09 PM
To: 	'tutors@python.org'
Subject: 	Menu Bars and Entry config

Help,


I have created a GUI and I would like to use menus to open files and close them
etc...

My program is user specific so I would like to add a feature where once I open a
file I can not open any more.

Thus I want to disable a command menu button.  

command = command menu bar
0 is the place FileOpen is in the menu
and Disabled is what I want to make it

command.entryconfig(0,state=DISABLED)


Can you help me on this or any other Tkinter problems....?


Thanks, 

Brian



From cfking@cybermail.net  Thu Feb 24 01:14:14 2000
From: cfking@cybermail.net (cfking@cybermail.net)
Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2000 02:14:14 +0100
Subject: [Tutor] telnetlib problem (interact, maybe due to Win32)
Message-ID: <38B485E6.A3826E51@cybermail.net>

Hello,

thank you for running this service. To not make too many words:

I'm trying to automate some nasty plain-ascii telnet app with 
telnetlib. So far so good, but it seems that interact() doesn't
work. Is that a feature of my environment or am I using it
the wrong way? I'm starting to use Python on Win32, plain vanilla 
1.5.2 installer installation so far, trying to get going quickly.
Could you provide or point me to a small example using interact()
or a technique that simulates it ?

I'm not subscribed to any mailing list yet so a direct reply 
would be great
Thanks a lot

Christian Frederking, Germany
cfking@cybermail.net



From cfking@cybermail.net  Thu Feb 24 01:00:48 2000
From: cfking@cybermail.net (cfking@cybermail.net)
Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2000 02:00:48 +0100
Subject: [Tutor] basic IDLE and other difficulties
Message-ID: <38B482C0.712D230A@cybermail.net>

Hello,

thank you for running this service. To not make too many words:

I'm starting to use Python on Win32, plain vanilla 1.5.2 installer
installation so far. I've been doing the tutorial by Guido, PC-wise
based on IDLE. I'm stuck in chapter 6:

--> just how do I make IDLE take the same thing for the "current"
     (or desired current) directory as I do?  (I don't want to have to
     keep putting things in the midst of ...Python/Lib)

--> how do I say "change directory" in Python, anyway? I've found
     "getcwd()" (after a considerable amount of digging), but in all
     of the FAQ and the docs I've found nothing similar to "setcwd()"
     or just simply "cd()". os wasn't easy, I don't think I got it all
right.

--> how do I make IDLE acknowledge that I have *changed* a file
     in my favorite editor (or even in the IDLE builtin editor) after
     the first "from myfile import ..." ? IDLE seem just barely
     too stubborn to see my changes. Keep quitting and restarting??

--> Is there any such thing as an "unimport()" or "forget()" anyway?

Sorry I'm not posting these questions to comp.lang.python.
I feel I'm just too new to the group yet to do a post.
Feel free to (anonymize and) post (with answers;) or faq them if you
like.

Reply would be great
Thanks a lot

Christian Frederking, Germany
cfking@cybermail.net




From tgabriel@bellsouth.net  Thu Feb 24 03:32:30 2000
From: tgabriel@bellsouth.net (tgabriel@bellsouth.net)
Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2000 22:32:30 -0500
Subject: [Tutor] 'text editor'
References: <38B4422E.47929FF4@voicenet.com>
Message-ID: <38B4A64D.7491FB22@bellsouth.net>

install the windows program and go to the proper directory and run
python. it is your t e. Alternatively, open notepad, type your program,
save it as xxxxx.py open python and get the file you created and run it.



From Moshe Zadka <mzadka@geocities.com>  Thu Feb 24 07:26:55 2000
From: Moshe Zadka <mzadka@geocities.com> (Moshe Zadka)
Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2000 09:26:55 +0200 (IST)
Subject: [Tutor] 'text editor'
In-Reply-To: <38B4422E.47929FF4@voicenet.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.10.10002240924440.6772-100000@sundial>

On Wed, 23 Feb 2000, chedr wrote:

> Hi,
> I'm totaly new at this so bear with me.
> Where do I get a text editor?
> This is what I've done so far: Downloaded and installed py152.exe;
> Downloaded but haven't installed  win32all.exe build 125; bought a copy
> of "Learning Python" by Mark Lutz;  got to page 13  where it says
> "suppose we start our favorite text editor".
> Do I have a text editor and don't know it?   Help!

Yes! You have at least three, of which two are espcially suited to Python:
PythonWin and IDLE. Both are available from the "start" menu, in the
Python group.



From dworkin@ccs.neu.edu  Thu Feb 24 15:55:49 2000
From: dworkin@ccs.neu.edu (Justin Sheehy)
Date: 24 Feb 2000 10:55:49 -0500
Subject: [Tutor] basic IDLE and other difficulties
In-Reply-To: "cfking@cybermail.net"'s message of "Thu, 24 Feb 2000 02:00:48 +0100"
References: <38B482C0.712D230A@cybermail.net>
Message-ID: <vndvh3e4mt6.fsf@camelot-new.ccs.neu.edu>

"cfking@cybermail.net" <cfking@cybermail.net> writes:

> --> how do I say "change directory" in Python, anyway? 

os.chdir(path)

> --> Is there any such thing as an "unimport()" or "forget()" anyway?

Net really, but depending on what you want, 'del <modulename>' may help.

-Justin

 


From alan.gauld@bt.com  Fri Feb 25 10:41:36 2000
From: alan.gauld@bt.com (alan.gauld@bt.com)
Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2000 10:41:36 -0000
Subject: [Tutor] basic IDLE and other difficulties
Message-ID: <5104D4DBC598D211B5FE0000F8FE7EB202DF607A@mbtlipnt02.btlabs.bt.co.uk>

> --> just how do I make IDLE take the same thing for the "current"
>      (or desired current) directory as I do?  (I don't want to have to
>      keep putting things in the midst of ...Python/Lib)

Look at the PYTHONPATH environme t variable 
- set it up in your AUTOEXEC.BAT file to point to 
the directory(s) where you store your own modules 
then reboot.

From then on Python will look first in iyts own libraries 
then in yours for a module. I think that's really what you want?

> --> how do I make IDLE acknowledge that I have *changed* a file
>      in my favorite editor (or even in the IDLE builtin editor) after
>      the first "from myfile import ..." ? IDLE seem just barely
>      too stubborn to see my changes. Keep quitting and restarting??

Try issueing a 'reload'. I'm not sure if/where it is in IDLE 
but theres definitely a menu version on Pythonwin.

BUT It only works if you used

	import foo

not if you did

	from foo import *

In the latter case you will have to quit/restart.
(unless somebody else knows a better way???)

FWIW I usually run IDLE as a development environment 
but keep a DOS box open to run the programs - IDLE has 
some bugs around raw_input() and input() and a few 
other issues. Thus I use Ctrl-S to sabe then run the 
program in the DOS box: F3 <Return>

> Sorry I'm not posting these questions to comp.lang.python.

Thats OK this forum is for exactly these types of questions.

Alan G.


From harun27@hotmail.com  Fri Feb 25 20:02:52 2000
From: harun27@hotmail.com (HARUN F.ABDULHAQ)
Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2000 20:02:52 EAT
Subject: [Tutor] (no subject)
Message-ID: <20000225170252.56150.qmail@hotmail.com>

HI,

Which book should i get to learn Python programming language(beginner)

thanks
harun
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com



From ivanlan@callware.com  Fri Feb 25 17:21:36 2000
From: ivanlan@callware.com (Ivan Van Laningham)
Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2000 10:21:36 -0700
Subject: [Tutor] (no subject)
References: <20000225170252.56150.qmail@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <38B6BA20.EB977CCD@callware.com>

Hi, Harun--

"HARUN F.ABDULHAQ" wrote:
> 
> HI,
> 
> Which book should i get to learn Python programming language(beginner)
> 

If you have some programming experience already, the best choice (and
available right now) is David Ascher & Mark Lutz' _Learning Python_ from
O'Reilly.

If you have no programming experience, you can wait till the end of
March for my book, _Teach Yourself Python in 24 Hours_, which is meant
explicitly for those who are complete beginners in programming and
Python.

By following this link, you go to the Python Software Activity's
Bookstore, and they get a small percentage if you buy the book by
clicking on their links:

	http://www.python.org/psa/bookstore/

<a-little-blatant-self-promotion-never-hurt-anyone>-ly y'rs,
Ivan
----------------------------------------------
Ivan Van Laningham
Callware Technologies, Inc.
ivanlan@callware.com
http://www.pauahtun.org 
http://www.foretec.com/python/workshops/1998-11/proceedings.html
Army Signal Corps:  Cu Chi, Class of '70
Author:  Teach Yourself Python in 24 Hours


From deirdre@deirdre.net  Fri Feb 25 18:53:55 2000
From: deirdre@deirdre.net (Deirdre Saoirse)
Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2000 10:53:55 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Tutor] (no subject)
In-Reply-To: <38B6BA20.EB977CCD@callware.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.10.10002251053300.22567-100000@adelie.deirdre.org>

On Fri, 25 Feb 2000, Ivan Van Laningham wrote:

> If you have no programming experience, you can wait till the end of
> March for my book, _Teach Yourself Python in 24 Hours_, which is meant
> explicitly for those who are complete beginners in programming and
> Python.

I was wondering when that book was going to surface. Thanks for the
update.

-- 
_Deirdre   *   http://www.linuxcabal.net   *   http://www.deirdre.net
"That doesn't make sense in any meaning of 'sense' with which I'm
familiar"
                                     -- Aaron Malone <aaron@semo.net>



From genius@idirect.com  Fri Feb 25 18:57:57 2000
From: genius@idirect.com (Snoopy :-)))
Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2000 13:57:57 -0500
Subject: [Tutor] (no subject)
References: <20000225170252.56150.qmail@hotmail.com> <38B6BA20.EB977CCD@callware.com>
Message-ID: <38B6D0B5.2C7C1D89@idirect.com>

Ivan Van Laningham wrote:

> Hi, Harun--
>
> "HARUN F.ABDULHAQ" wrote:
> >
> > HI,
> >
> > Which book should i get to learn Python programming language(beginner)
> >
>
> If you have some programming experience already, the best choice (and
> available right now) is David Ascher & Mark Lutz' _Learning Python_ from
> O'Reilly.
>
> If you have no programming experience, you can wait till the end of
> March for my book, _Teach Yourself Python in 24 Hours_, which is meant
> explicitly for those who are complete beginners in programming and
> Python.
>
> By following this link, you go to the Python Software Activity's
> Bookstore, and they get a small percentage if you buy the book by
> clicking on their links:
>
>         http://www.python.org/psa/bookstore/
>
> <a-little-blatant-self-promotion-never-hurt-anyone>-ly y'rs,
> Ivan
> ----------------------------------------------
> Ivan Van Laningham
> Callware Technologies, Inc.
> ivanlan@callware.com
> http://www.pauahtun.org
> http://www.foretec.com/python/workshops/1998-11/proceedings.html
> Army Signal Corps:  Cu Chi, Class of '70
> Author:  Teach Yourself Python in 24 Hours
>
> _______________________________________________
> Tutor maillist  -  Tutor@python.org
> http://www.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor

Hi Ivan :-))
I hope the release of this book will not be delayed again.  According to my
info it was supposed to be released  in Sept. or Oct. 99.  I bought
"Learning Python" but  being a Novice in Programming, (as well as a Newbie
in Linux) it seems to be way above my head.  So I am anxiously waiting for
your book.
Best regards,
Charles Takacs



From oceanic2000@hotmail.com  Fri Feb 25 19:25:07 2000
From: oceanic2000@hotmail.com (Tiffany Olson)
Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2000 11:25:07 PST
Subject: [Tutor] help!!!
Message-ID: <20000225192507.67577.qmail@hotmail.com>

how can i learn python when everything is put into comparison terms! just 
tell me how to do it and i'll be able to learn it!!!

*T*I*F*F*A*N*Y*

______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com



From warren@nightwares.com  Fri Feb 25 19:34:51 2000
From: warren@nightwares.com (Warren 'The Howdy Man' Ockrassa)
Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2000 13:34:51 -0600
Subject: [Tutor] help!!!
References: <20000225192507.67577.qmail@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <38B6D95B.72E0AAB3@nightwares.com>

Tiffany Olson wrote:

> how can i learn python when everything is put into comparison terms!

Well, that's one of the most convenient ways to express how it
functions. Of course if you're unfamiliar with any of those other
languages, you're kind of stuck...

What documentation werwe you specifically having trouble with?

--WthmO


From ivanlan@callware.com  Fri Feb 25 19:36:52 2000
From: ivanlan@callware.com (Ivan Van Laningham)
Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2000 12:36:52 -0700
Subject: [Tutor] help!!!
References: <20000225192507.67577.qmail@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <38B6D9D4.A221C0F8@callware.com>

Hi All--

Tiffany Olson wrote:
> 
> how can i learn python when everything is put into comparison terms! just
> tell me how to do it and i'll be able to learn it!!!
> 

Well, I guess this is my day for BSP;-)  Sorry, folks.  I'll just repeat
what I said earlier:

If you have some programming experience already, the best choice (and
available right now) is David Ascher & Mark Lutz' _Learning Python_ from
O'Reilly.

If you have no programming experience, you can wait till the end of
March for my book, _Teach Yourself Python in 24 Hours_, which is meant
explicitly for those who are complete beginners in programming and
Python.

By following this link, you go to the Python Software Activity's
Bookstore, and they get a small percentage if you buy the book by
clicking on their links:

        http://www.python.org/psa/bookstore/

I do not expect readers to be familiar with other programming languages,
so you won't find features in Python likened to features (or bugs) in
other languages.


> *T*I*F*F*A*N*Y*
> 

Then you can write a book and call it _The Education of
*T*I*F*F*A*N*Y*_.

<gordon-you'll-get-this-one>-ly y'rs,
Ivan;-) 
----------------------------------------------
Ivan Van Laningham
Callware Technologies, Inc.
ivanlan@callware.com
http://www.pauahtun.org 
http://www.foretec.com/python/workshops/1998-11/proceedings.html
Army Signal Corps:  Cu Chi, Class of '70
Author:  Teach Yourself Python in 24 Hours


From ivanlan@callware.com  Fri Feb 25 19:19:53 2000
From: ivanlan@callware.com (Ivan Van Laningham)
Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2000 12:19:53 -0700
Subject: [Tutor] (no subject)
References: <20000225170252.56150.qmail@hotmail.com> <38B6BA20.EB977CCD@callware.com> <38B6D0B5.2C7C1D89@idirect.com>
Message-ID: <38B6D5D9.45BCA66F@callware.com>

Hi All--

"Snoopy :-))" wrote:
> 
[snip]
> Hi Ivan :-))
> I hope the release of this book will not be delayed again.  According to my
> info it was supposed to be released  in Sept. or Oct. 99.  I bought
> "Learning Python" but  being a Novice in Programming, (as well as a Newbie
> in Linux) it seems to be way above my head.  So I am anxiously waiting for
> your book.
> Best regards,
> Charles Takacs

I apologize for the delay, Charles, but I believe that TYPython will be
a better book because of the extra time I took writing it.  The original
release date would have been November or early December 99, but because
I have a full-time day job and many other committments (such as a life),
it took longer.  Plus, several chapters that I thought would be very
short turned out to require much more attention than I had initially
planned for.

I do believe that it will be worth the wait, however.  The book is
completely done from my end; the publisher has all my last-minute
corrections and there is nothing more for me to do.  SAMS is pretty
efficient when it comes to putting out books, so when they say that the
expected release date is now March 21, I would tend to give some
credibility to that date.

<in-the-meantime-practice-zendo>-ly y'rs,
Ivan;-)
----------------------------------------------
Ivan Van Laningham
Callware Technologies, Inc.
ivanlan@callware.com
http://www.pauahtun.org 
http://www.foretec.com/python/workshops/1998-11/proceedings.html
Army Signal Corps:  Cu Chi, Class of '70
Author:  Teach Yourself Python in 24 Hours


From rbl@hal.cwru.edu  Fri Feb 25 19:39:37 2000
From: rbl@hal.cwru.edu (Robin B. Lake)
Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2000 14:39:37 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [Tutor] Need for pedestrian-level explaination
Message-ID: <200002251939.OAA00446@hal.epbi.cwru.edu>

Python looks great and I've already slayed a few dragons quickly
and simply with it.

However, the e-list postings often drop terms for which there are
no simple descriptions that are easily found.  I go back 25+ years
with C and 40 years with some pretty arcane programming languages, and
I'm worried that a neat language like Python, designed for the masses,
will "off" them because it isn't simple, stupid.

I.E.

Zope.  What is it?  What hardware does it require?  What good is it?
CVS.  ditto
IDLE.  ditto

and so forth.

Thanks,
Rob lake
rbl@hal.cwru.edu


From python-list@teleo.net  Fri Feb 25 20:01:40 2000
From: python-list@teleo.net (Patrick Phalen)
Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2000 12:01:40 -0800
Subject: [Tutor] Need for pedestrian-level explaination
In-Reply-To: <200002251939.OAA00446@hal.epbi.cwru.edu>
References: <200002251939.OAA00446@hal.epbi.cwru.edu>
Message-ID: <00022512091603.00908@quadra.teleo.net>

[Robin B. Lake, on Fri, 25 Feb 2000]
:: Python looks great and I've already slayed a few dragons quickly
:: and simply with it.
:: 
:: However, the e-list postings often drop terms for which there are
:: no simple descriptions that are easily found.  I go back 25+ years
:: with C and 40 years with some pretty arcane programming languages, and
:: I'm worried that a neat language like Python, designed for the masses,
:: will "off" them because it isn't simple, stupid.
:: 
:: I.E.
:: 
:: Zope.  What is it?  What hardware does it require?  What good is it?

http://www.zope.org

:: CVS.  ditto

http://www.python.org/download/cvs.html

:: IDLE.  ditto

http://www.python.org/idle

The Python web site has a search feature. 40 years of programming
experience and you don't know how to use a search engine? ;-)




From Moshe Zadka <mzadka@geocities.com>  Fri Feb 25 20:18:05 2000
From: Moshe Zadka <mzadka@geocities.com> (Moshe Zadka)
Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2000 22:18:05 +0200 (IST)
Subject: [Tutor] Need for pedestrian-level explaination
In-Reply-To: <200002251939.OAA00446@hal.epbi.cwru.edu>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.20_heb2.08.0002252213200.20450-100000@sundial>

On Fri, 25 Feb 2000, Robin B. Lake wrote:

> Zope.What is it?  What hardware does it require?  What good is it?

A super-duper web server. For more, try http://www.zope.org

> CVS.ditto

Concurrent Versioning System: the way many Free Software (or Open
Source) projects are being co-ordinated, this is a way for anyone to see
the development sources. Try http://www.cyclic.org for more information.

> IDLE.ditto

An IDE for Python which is distributed along with the standard
distribution. If you have windows, you probably installed it along with
your Python. Otherwise, you'll need to download the source distribution
from http://www.python.org and install it. It can do some things quite
well, but it isn't commercial quality yet.

> and so forth.

Try http://www.google.com to search for unfamiliar terms. For Python
specific ones, you can try the search engine linked from
http://www.python.org

--
Moshe Zadka <mzadka@geocities.com>. 
INTERNET: Learn what you know.
Share what you don't.



From ivanlan@callware.com  Fri Feb 25 19:45:40 2000
From: ivanlan@callware.com (Ivan Van Laningham)
Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2000 12:45:40 -0700
Subject: [Tutor] help!!!
References: <20000225193932.25131.qmail@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <38B6DBE4.B6B76EF9@callware.com>

Hi All--

Tiffany Olson wrote:
> 
> How about getting free, easy help online?
> 

<g>  That's what this list is for.  Could you be more specific?  Have
you tried running the interpreter?  Does it make any sense at all to
you?

<we-are-delphi;-resistance-is-futile>-ly y'rs,
Ivan
----------------------------------------------
Ivan Van Laningham
Callware Technologies, Inc.
ivanlan@callware.com
http://www.pauahtun.org 
http://www.foretec.com/python/workshops/1998-11/proceedings.html
Army Signal Corps:  Cu Chi, Class of '70
Author:  Teach Yourself Python in 24 Hours


From f_khayyat@yahoo.com  Fri Feb 25 21:20:13 2000
From: f_khayyat@yahoo.com (f_khayyat)
Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2000 00:20:13 +0300
Subject: [Tutor] (no subject)
References: <20000225170252.56150.qmail@hotmail.com> <38B6BA20.EB977CCD@callware.com> <38B6D0B5.2C7C1D89@idirect.com> <38B6D5D9.45BCA66F@callware.com>
Message-ID: <003301bf7fd6$23695de0$852246d4@default>

Hi everybody
Hi Harun if want something right now go to - Non-Programmers Tutorial For
Python - at :
http://www.honors.montana.edu/~jjc/easytut/easytut/
if your browser is MSIE then add this page to your favorites and choose make
it avalible offline then, synchronize it with 1 link deep.
I hope that you find what you looking for for now.
Fawaz Khayyat


----- Original Message -----
From: Ivan Van Laningham <ivanlan@callware.com>
Cc: <tutor@python.org>
Sent: Friday, February 25, 2000 10:19 PM
Subject: Re: [Tutor] (no subject)


> Hi All--
>
> "Snoopy :-))" wrote:
> >
> [snip]
> > Hi Ivan :-))
> > I hope the release of this book will not be delayed again.  According to
my
> > info it was supposed to be released  in Sept. or Oct. 99.  I bought
> > "Learning Python" but  being a Novice in Programming, (as well as a
Newbie
> > in Linux) it seems to be way above my head.  So I am anxiously waiting
for
> > your book.
> > Best regards,
> > Charles Takacs
>
> I apologize for the delay, Charles, but I believe that TYPython will be
> a better book because of the extra time I took writing it.  The original
> release date would have been November or early December 99, but because
> I have a full-time day job and many other committments (such as a life),
> it took longer.  Plus, several chapters that I thought would be very
> short turned out to require much more attention than I had initially
> planned for.
>
> I do believe that it will be worth the wait, however.  The book is
> completely done from my end; the publisher has all my last-minute
> corrections and there is nothing more for me to do.  SAMS is pretty
> efficient when it comes to putting out books, so when they say that the
> expected release date is now March 21, I would tend to give some
> credibility to that date.
>
> <in-the-meantime-practice-zendo>-ly y'rs,
> Ivan;-)
> ----------------------------------------------
> Ivan Van Laningham
> Callware Technologies, Inc.
> ivanlan@callware.com
> http://www.pauahtun.org
> http://www.foretec.com/python/workshops/1998-11/proceedings.html
> Army Signal Corps:  Cu Chi, Class of '70
> Author:  Teach Yourself Python in 24 Hours
>
> _______________________________________________
> Tutor maillist  -  Tutor@python.org
> http://www.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger.
http://im.yahoo.com


From radien@viaccess.net  Fri Feb 25 23:03:40 2000
From: radien@viaccess.net (Rory "Radien" Andrews)
Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2000 19:03:40 -0400
Subject: [Tutor] new learner
Message-ID: <001201bf7fe4$92e7d080$ad5afea9@radien>

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

------=_NextPart_000_000D_01BF7FC3.0726D940
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Please help me I am a beginner in the hacker field no where near being =
advance with the terms and how to use programming programs is there any =
information that you can give to this insolent pup it would be very well =
appericated

------=_NextPart_000_000D_01BF7FC3.0726D940
Content-Type: text/html;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-1" =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.00.2614.3500" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Please help me I am a beginner in the =
hacker field=20
no where near being advance with the terms and how to use programming =
programs=20
is there any information that you can give to this insolent pup it would =
be very=20
well appericated</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>

------=_NextPart_000_000D_01BF7FC3.0726D940--



From metafakx@yifan.net  Fri Feb 25 16:00:36 2000
From: metafakx@yifan.net (david)
Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2000 09:00:36 -0700
Subject: [Tutor] printf codes
Message-ID: <20000225090036.A20864@yifan.net>

Could someone refer me to definitions of the c printf format codes
that are used in python, or define them here? Specifically, %, c, s,
i, d, u, o, x, X, e, E, f, g, G.

[I know what the %, d and s are for.] 

David


From jstok@bluedog.apana.org.au  Sat Feb 26 16:20:03 2000
From: jstok@bluedog.apana.org.au (Jason Stokes)
Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2000 03:20:03 +1100
Subject: [Tutor] Need for pedestrian-level explaination
Message-ID: <008301bf8075$58d75820$42e60ecb@jstok>


>On Fri, 25 Feb 2000, Robin B. Lake wrote:
>
>> Zope.What is it?  What hardware does it require?  What good is it?
>
>A super-duper web server. For more, try http://www.zope.org


Web server?  More like a web site and web application design and publishing
system.




From deirdre@deirdre.net  Sat Feb 26 16:23:36 2000
From: deirdre@deirdre.net (Deirdre Saoirse)
Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2000 08:23:36 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Tutor] Need for pedestrian-level explaination
In-Reply-To: <008301bf8075$58d75820$42e60ecb@jstok>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.10.10002260823000.26925-100000@adelie.deirdre.org>

On Sun, 27 Feb 2000, Jason Stokes wrote:

> Web server?  More like a web site and web application design and
> publishing system.

Yes, but it also does include a web server. I would call it an
application server myself.

-- 
_Deirdre   *   http://www.linuxcabal.net   *   http://www.deirdre.net
"That doesn't make sense in any meaning of 'sense' with which I'm
familiar"
                                     -- Aaron Malone <aaron@semo.net>



From parkw@better.net  Sat Feb 26 18:14:37 2000
From: parkw@better.net (William Park)
Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2000 13:14:37 -0500
Subject: [Tutor] printf codes
In-Reply-To: <20000225090036.A20864@yifan.net>; from metafakx@yifan.net on Fri, Feb 25, 2000 at 09:00:36AM -0700
References: <20000225090036.A20864@yifan.net>
Message-ID: <20000226131437.A3505@better.net>

On Fri, Feb 25, 2000 at 09:00:36AM -0700, david wrote:
> 
> Could someone refer me to definitions of the c printf format codes
> that are used in python, or define them here? Specifically, %, c, s,
> i, d, u, o, x, X, e, E, f, g, G.
> 
> [I know what the %, d and s are for.] 
> 
> David

'man -a printf' or look up any Python or C books.


From billbnor@mousa.demon.co.uk  Sat Feb 26 17:55:51 2000
From: billbnor@mousa.demon.co.uk (Bill Bedford)
Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2000 17:55:51 +0000
Subject: [Tutor] Need for pedestrian-level explanation
In-Reply-To: <008301bf8075$58d75820$42e60ecb@jstok>
References: <008301bf8075$58d75820$42e60ecb@jstok>
Message-ID: <a04310101b4ddc3bc327d@mousa.demon.co.uk>

At 3:20 am +1100 27/02/00, Jason Stokes wrote:

>>On Fri, 25 Feb 2000, Robin B. Lake wrote:
>>
>>>  Zope.What is it?  What hardware does it require?  What good is it?
>>
>>A super-duper web server. For more, try http://www.zope.org
>
>
>Web server?  More like a web site and web application design and publishing
>system.

Out of interest -- does anyone know of a Zope enabled web hosting 
company in the UK?

-- 
Bill Bedford                            mailto:billb@mousa.demon.co.uk

The hippo of recollection stirred in the muddy waters of the mind.


From bwarsaw@cnri.reston.va.us (Barry A. Warsaw)  Sat Feb 26 20:20:54 2000
From: bwarsaw@cnri.reston.va.us (Barry A. Warsaw) (Barry A. Warsaw)
Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2000 15:20:54 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [Tutor] testing autoreply
Message-ID: <14520.13734.90787.335517@anthem.cnri.reston.va.us>

sorry tutors, please ignore.
-Barry


From bwarsaw@cnri.reston.va.us (Barry A. Warsaw)  Sat Feb 26 20:22:41 2000
From: bwarsaw@cnri.reston.va.us (Barry A. Warsaw) (Barry A. Warsaw)
Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2000 15:22:41 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [Tutor] testing autoreply
Message-ID: <14520.13841.563058.902955@anthem.cnri.reston.va.us>

Last test; this should not autoreply.  Please ignore.
-Barry


From f_khayyat@yahoo.com  Sun Feb 27 14:08:14 2000
From: f_khayyat@yahoo.com (f_khayyat)
Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2000 17:08:14 +0300
Subject: [Tutor] (no subject)
References: <20000225170252.56150.qmail@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <02ce01bf812c$479a4560$482246d4@default>

Hi everybody
Hi Harun if want something right now go to - Non-Programmers Tutorial For
Python - at :
http://www.honors.montana.edu/~jjc/easytut/easytut/
if your browser is MSIE then add this page to your favorites and choose make
it avalible offline then, synchronize it with 1 link deep.
I hope that you find what you looking for for now.

Fawaz Khayyat



----- Original Message -----
From: HARUN F.ABDULHAQ <harun27@hotmail.com>
To: <tutor@python.org>
Sent: Friday, February 25, 2000 11:02 PM
Subject: [Tutor] (no subject)


> HI,
>
> Which book should i get to learn Python programming language(beginner)
>
> thanks
> harun
> ______________________________________________________
> Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Tutor maillist  -  Tutor@python.org
> http://www.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger.
http://im.yahoo.com


From ivanlan@callware.com  Sat Feb 26 14:46:26 2000
From: ivanlan@callware.com (Ivan Van Laningham)
Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2000 07:46:26 -0700
Subject: [Tutor] help!!!
References: <20000226143433.76125.qmail@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <38B7E742.2F81295D@callware.com>

Hi All--

Tiffany Olson wrote:
> 
> I want to learn Python from memory. Where and how can I get information
> on-line to learn it? I also have no access to a group here in my town that
> can help me.
> 

Have you downloaded Python and installed it?  Have you tried to run it? 
What kind of computer do you have (Windows?  Mac?  Linux?)?  It's hard
to help you unless you are more specific.  Truly, we all would *love* to
help you--just give us something to go on.

An excellent online tutorial, meant explicitly for non-programmers
(which I assume you are), written by Alan Gauld, is available at:

	http://members.xoom.com/alan_gauld/tutor/tutindex.htm

That said, online documentation is not, to my mind, nearly as
satisfactory as a real book.  Window-switching can be fairly
inconvenient, and it's harder to read stuff on the screen than it is in
hardcopy.

<not-a-plug-i-swear>-ly y'rs,
Ivan
----------------------------------------------
Ivan Van Laningham
Callware Technologies, Inc.
ivanlan@callware.com
http://www.pauahtun.org and
http://www.foretec.com/python/workshops/1998-11/proceedings.html
Army Signal Corps:  Cu Chi, Class of '70
Author:  Teach Yourself Python in 24 Hours


From alan.gauld@bt.com  Mon Feb 28 10:53:19 2000
From: alan.gauld@bt.com (alan.gauld@bt.com)
Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2000 10:53:19 -0000
Subject: [Tutor] help!!!
Message-ID: <5104D4DBC598D211B5FE0000F8FE7EB202DF6082@mbtlipnt02.btlabs.bt.co.uk>

> how can i learn python when everything is put into comparison 
> terms! just tell me how to do it and i'll be able to learn it!!!

Not sure what you mean by that since comparison is one of 
the best ways of learning - its how we learn any new language, 
programming or otherwise.

There are a couple of tutors for beginners on the Python Web 
site which get straight to the meat of it if that's your style. 

You can try m ine which is more explanatorty of concepts if 
your a complete beginner, but it does (deliberately) use 
comparisons with Tcl and QBASIC.

http://www.crosswinds.net/~agauld/

Alan G.



From alan.gauld@bt.com  Mon Feb 28 11:18:23 2000
From: alan.gauld@bt.com (alan.gauld@bt.com)
Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2000 11:18:23 -0000
Subject: [Tutor] printf codes
Message-ID: <5104D4DBC598D211B5FE0000F8FE7EB202DF6084@mbtlipnt02.btlabs.bt.co.uk>

> Could someone refer me to definitions of the c printf format codes
> that are used in python, or define them here? Specifically, %, c, s,
> i, d, u, o, x, X, e, E, f, g, G.

Check the following web page:

http://www.gkrueger.com/java/printf.html

Alan G


From alan.gauld@bt.com  Mon Feb 28 10:59:04 2000
From: alan.gauld@bt.com (alan.gauld@bt.com)
Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2000 10:59:04 -0000
Subject: [Tutor] (no subject)
Message-ID: <5104D4DBC598D211B5FE0000F8FE7EB202DF6083@mbtlipnt02.btlabs.bt.co.uk>

> > info it was supposed to be released  in Sept. or Oct. 99.  I bought
> > "Learning Python" but  being a Novice in Programming, (as 
> well as a Newbie
> > in Linux) it seems to be way above my head.  So I am 
> anxiously waiting for
> > your book.

Since this seems a good time for self promotion :-) ...

I am currently turning my online tutor into a book. It
will feature several new chapters and use VBScript and 
Javascript instead of Tcl and QBASIC as the comparative 
languages.

I don't expect it out much before the end of the year 
but since I passed the half way mark on the first draft 
this weekend I now feel confident enough to announce 
its existence as a project. That will make at least 
2 beginners books on Python.

Alan G.
http://www.crosswinds.net/~agauld/


From ivanlan@callware.com  Mon Feb 28 12:55:49 2000
From: ivanlan@callware.com (Ivan Van Laningham)
Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2000 05:55:49 -0700
Subject: [Tutor] (no subject)
References: <5104D4DBC598D211B5FE0000F8FE7EB202DF6083@mbtlipnt02.btlabs.bt.co.uk>
Message-ID: <38BA7055.BC2429AD@callware.com>

Hi All--

alan.gauld@bt.com wrote:
> 
> Since this seems a good time for self promotion :-) ...
> 

BSP ("Blatant Self Promotion");-)

> I am currently turning my online tutor into a book. It
> will feature several new chapters and use VBScript and
> Javascript instead of Tcl and QBASIC as the comparative
> languages.
> 
> I don't expect it out much before the end of the year
> but since I passed the half way mark on the first draft
> this weekend I now feel confident enough to announce
> its existence as a project. That will make at least
> 2 beginners books on Python.
> 

That's wonderful news, Alan.  Who's your publisher?

Congratulations,
Ivan
----------------------------------------------
Ivan Van Laningham
Callware Technologies, Inc.
http://www.pauahtun.org and
http://www.foretec.com/python/workshops/1998-11/proceedings.html
Army Signal Corps:  Cu Chi, Class of '70
Author:  Teach Yourself Python in 24 Hours


From ivanlan@callware.com  Tue Feb 29 02:24:19 2000
From: ivanlan@callware.com (Ivan Van Laningham)
Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2000 19:24:19 -0700
Subject: `Re: [Tutor] help!!!
References: <20000229013011.5664.qmail@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <38BB2DD3.82E20EB0@callware.com>

Hi All, Tiffany--

Tiffany Olson wrote:
> 
> I have a Windows, and my entire system is Gateway
> 

What you need to do is to install Python.  Don't accept the default
directory, but install to "c:\Python" instead.  Install Tcl to "c:\Tcl".

Answer "yes" to all the rest of the questions.

Once you have done that, open a DOS prompt (found on your menu--hit the
Windows key) and type "cd c:\Python" and hit return.  After that, type
"python" and hit return.  You should get something that looks like this:

C:\Python> python
Python 1.5.2 (#0, Apr 13 1999, 10:51:12) [MSC 32 bit (Intel)] on win32
Copyright 1991-1995 Stichting Mathematisch Centrum, Amsterdam
>>>

Once you see the ">>>", you know that Python is installed correctly. 
Type this:

print "Hello, world!"

and hit return.  You should see this:

>>> print "Hello, world!"
Hello, world!
>>>

And you're on your way.  Take a look at Alan's beginner tutorial at

	http://members.xoom.com/alan_gauld/tutor/tutindex.htm

Work some of the exercises.  When you're done, type a ^Z at the >>>
prompt.  That means press the Z and Ctrl keys simultaneously.  Python
will exit, and you'll return to the "C:\Python>" prompt.

When replying to messages from the tutor list, don't forget to make sure
that the address you're using is

	tutor@python.org

If it's not, you're only replying to whomever posted that message, and
others can't chime in to help you too.

Good luck,
Ivan
----------------------------------------------
Ivan Van Laningham
Callware Technologies, Inc.
http://www.pauahtun.org and
http://www.foretec.com/python/workshops/1998-11/proceedings.html
Army Signal Corps:  Cu Chi, Class of '70
Author:  Teach Yourself Python in 24 Hours


From reddskull@hotmail.com  Tue Feb 29 19:18:33 2000
From: reddskull@hotmail.com (skulleton User)
Date: Tue, 29 Feb 2000 19:18:33 GMT
Subject: [Tutor] (no subject)
Message-ID: <20000229191833.57086.qmail@hotmail.com>

where can i get a book on the basic information to study and learn how to 
use it.

Redd
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com



From spirou@carolo.net  Tue Feb 29 20:34:01 2000
From: spirou@carolo.net (Denis)
Date: Tue, 29 Feb 2000 20:34:01 +0000
Subject: [Tutor] Zope enabled web hosting (was: Need for pedestrian-level explanation)
References: <008301bf8075$58d75820$42e60ecb@jstok> <a04310101b4ddc3bc327d@mousa.demon.co.uk>
Message-ID: <38BC2D39.C2E019D0@carolo.net>

Bill Bedford wrote:

> Out of interest -- does anyone know of a Zope enabled web hosting
> company in the UK?
> 

Though I think your question is off topic on this list and I found your
"Out of interest" at least unpleasant, I'm pleased to submit you this
URL :

http://www.zope.org/Resources/ZSP


Denis Frčre


From billbnor@mousa.demon.co.uk  Tue Feb 29 22:09:53 2000
From: billbnor@mousa.demon.co.uk (Bill Bedford)
Date: Tue, 29 Feb 2000 22:09:53 +0000
Subject: [Tutor] Re: Zope enabled web hosting (was: Need for pedestrian-level
 explanation)
In-Reply-To: <38BC2D39.C2E019D0@carolo.net>
References: <008301bf8075$58d75820$42e60ecb@jstok>
 <a04310101b4ddc3bc327d@mousa.demon.co.uk>
 <38BC2D39.C2E019D0@carolo.net>
Message-ID: <a04310102b4e1ee5a21cd@mousa.demon.co.uk>

At 8:34 pm +0000 29/02/00, Denis wrote:

>Bill Bedford wrote:
>
>>  Out of interest -- does anyone know of a Zope enabled web hosting
>>  company in the UK?
>>
>

Mmmm

>Though I think your question is off topic on this list

Probably

>and I found your
>"Out of interest" at least unpleasant,

Why? Is seems to me a perfectly common colloquialism for flagging a 
casual enquiry.

>  I'm pleased to submit you this URL :
>
>http://www.zope.org/Resources/ZSP
>

So the answer is "No"

Thanks for your time.......

-- 
Bill Bedford                            mailto:billb@mousa.demon.co.uk

Just because it's not nice doesn't mean it's not miraculous.


From legacy@ihug.co.nz  Tue Feb 29 22:11:16 2000
From: legacy@ihug.co.nz (Legacy)
Date: Wed, 1 Mar 2000 11:11:16 +1300
Subject: [Tutor] learning a Programming language
Message-ID: <001c01bf8301$ecb2a5c0$67effea9@daz>

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I wish to learn programming under the Windows environment (Win 9x + =
Win2000).

I have minimal if no programming experience (except very basic BASIC =
about 15 years ago).  Should I start with Python or with Visual Basic.  =
What are the principal differences between the languages.

Please try and give an unbiased view.

Thanks.

Darren

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<DIV><FONT size=3D2>I wish to learn programming under the Windows =
environment (Win=20
9x + Win2000).</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>I have minimal if no programming experience (except =
very basic=20
BASIC about 15 years ago).&nbsp; Should I start with Python or with =
Visual=20
Basic.&nbsp;&nbsp;What are the principal differences between the=20
languages.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Please try and give an unbiased view.</FONT></DIV>
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<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Thanks.</FONT></DIV>
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<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Darren</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>

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From deirdre@deirdre.net  Tue Feb 29 11:31:06 2000
From: deirdre@deirdre.net (Deirdre Saoirse)
Date: Tue, 29 Feb 2000 03:31:06 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Tutor] learning a Programming language
In-Reply-To: <001c01bf8301$ecb2a5c0$67effea9@daz>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.10.10002290320370.27766-100000@rockhopper.deirdre.org>

On Wed, 1 Mar 2000, Legacy wrote:

> I have minimal if no programming experience (except very basic BASIC
> about 15 years ago).  Should I start with Python or with Visual Basic.
> What are the principal differences between the languages.

Visual Basic only runs on Windows; Python runs on practically everything.

Visual Basic is best suited for GUI applications; where I work we
use Python for a lot of background processes that run on several
platforms. In fact, we can move them from Linux <-> NT (some run on both
platforms).

If you want to limit yourself to ONLY writing for Windows, you may be
better off using Visual Basic.

-- 
_Deirdre   *   http://www.linuxcabal.org   *   http://www.deirdre.net
I've _never_ made a decision I've been happier with than quitting $FIRM.
						-- Rick Moen



From gerrit@nl.linux.org  Tue Feb 29 22:28:41 2000
From: gerrit@nl.linux.org (Gerrit Holl)
Date: Tue, 29 Feb 2000 23:28:41 +0100
Subject: [Tutor] learning a Programming language
In-Reply-To: <001c01bf8301$ecb2a5c0$67effea9@daz>; from legacy@ihug.co.nz on Wed, Mar 01, 2000 at 11:11:16AM +1300
References: <001c01bf8301$ecb2a5c0$67effea9@daz>
Message-ID: <20000229232840.A8644@nl.linux.org>

<quote name="Legacy" date="951905476" email="legacy@ihug.co.nz">
> 
> I wish to learn programming under the Windows environment (Win 9x + Win2000).

I wanted this too, about a year ago. I started with Python (first on
Win 95 but after a few weeks on Linux <www.linux.org>) and it's
an extremely good first language.

> 
> I have minimal if no programming experience (except very basic BASIC about 15 years ago).  Should I start with Python or with Visual Basic.  What are the principal differences between the languages.
> 
> Please try and give an unbiased view.

I'm afraid you can't get an unbiased view in here, because we're all
biased towards Python (aren't we?). Try in the comp.programming
newsgroup or be content with a biased view.
</quote>

just-learn-Python-ly y'rs - gerrit.
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