[Tutor] Database driven web sites with python

[Magnus Lycka]

At 12:30 2003-01-19 +0100, Charlie Clark wrote:
>On 2003-01-19 at 00:19:27 [+0100], Magnus Lycka wrote:
> > *I* think mixing HTML and code is typically bad, but having looked
>I think it's important to menation why it's bad: it takes a while to foc=
us
>your mind on the important bit and separate code from HTML.

Not only that: Content, Style and Logic are three separate things.
It should be possible to deal with these things independently, and
by different people.

Your project might start small, and grow, and then suddenly you
realize that you need to have someone who thinks HTML is a programing
language fiddle in your Python code with embedded HTML. Horror...

As I see it, it's a big advantage if the content people can just write
"documents" without having to worry about technical aspects, and that
layout people should be able to design layout in HTML and CSS without
understanding the technical implementation or anything about Python.

(...code thingies in HTML tag attributes)
>This is the same as Zope Page Templates.

Yes I think ZPT and CHTL are similar. IIRC I first heard of the concept
by someone who tried to "reinvent" ZOPE using this concept and others,
but Zope is a huge, monolithic "monster" compared to little CherryPy.
(Nothing bad about monsters... Many of my best friends are monsters! ;)

> > A more serious problem is that as far as I understand it has to be ru=
n
> > like a long running process, and I don't always have the ability to s=
et
> > up such processes on web sites I work with.
>pcgi? It's probably possible to run it inside the webserver via redirect=
ion
>just like it is with Zope.

Yes, but you still need to have a long running process to avoid
repeated startup delays, right? Even if the communication goes via
Apache etc.

>Magnus, verlaat me!

Sure. Was that dutch? Close to Swedish: "F=F6rl=E5t mig" (For English
people, that's pronounced "furLORT may", and means "forgive me".)

> > Right... As in "Except that it doesn't work, how do you like this
> > software?" ;)
>No, as in none of the products has been declared stable.

Aha. That can mean anything from vapourware to rock solid. People
seem to have very different opinions about when to say: Done!

>"Adaptable
>storage" looks very promising and seeing as it's been developed by Shane
>Hathaway of Zope Corp., looks like it may well make it. One of the aims =
of
>Zope 3 is to have better support for this kind of thing.

As I said, I'll have a look when 3.1 is out. I hope that Zope will
"come back" to the rest of the tool chest, so that it's not all a
mystery in ZODB... I like ZODB, and I use it a lot, but for data, not
for "code".

> > I always gave up faster than that every time I tried. :(
>I can understand that. But once I'd done the built-in tutorial I was in =
a
>better position to start. I have the advantage of being able to compare
>with it with several content management systems and know that they're no
>better. I've really learned a lot about Zope over the last couple of mon=
ths
>haveing started on a very simple project which has continually grown.

I guess I never really NEEDED to use it... We'll see...
Maybe my brain backfires one day, and I sign a contract do build
a big, dynamic web site.

I must say that my user experience with things like Plone etc are
not very positive. I prefer MoinMoin every time.


--=20
Magnus Lycka, Thinkware AB
Alvans vag 99, SE-907 50 UMEA, SWEDEN
phone: int+46 70 582 80 65, fax: int+46 70 612 80 65
http://www.thinkware.se/  mailto:magnus@thinkware.se