From mhoneyfield@xtra.co.nz Tue Jul 1 04:48:02 2003 From: mhoneyfield@xtra.co.nz (Michael Honeyfield) Date: Tue Jul 1 03:48:02 2003 Subject: [Tutor] compiling python apps Message-ID: <3F013C6F.20202@xtra.co.nz> Hello python users, I have set myself the task of learning python. I learn best in the deep end (sometimes) and thought I would give pysol a hack and see what I can do with it. Perhaps port the UI to the QT python UI. Anyways, I am confussed on the two pysol packages that one can download. One of them is a "ready to run" package (3301Kb) and the other is the source (151Kb). I figured the source package is there for customizing (which is what I wish to do) but I dont know how to "compile" it like the "ready to run" package is. Anyone following this list understand me or am I making a public fool of myself? :) If a am not making much sense I will try to clarifiy further. But to sum it up, How do I get my modified pysol source compile like the ready to run package? I have emailed the maintainer, but not had any reply (I suspect he is busy in the next cool release of pysol :) ) Many many thanks in advance Mike -- Ok, there's no way to do this gracefully, so I won't even try. I'm going to just hunker down for some really impressive extended flaming, and my asbestos underwear is firmly in place, and extremely uncomfortable. -- Linus Trovalds From glingl@mail.rg16.asn-wien.ac.at Tue Jul 1 06:16:03 2003 From: glingl@mail.rg16.asn-wien.ac.at (glingl) Date: Tue Jul 1 05:16:03 2003 Subject: [Tutor] finding factorials - hmm..., gcd Message-ID: <200307010915.h619FGc02559@ada.rg16.asn-wien.ac.at> --- Payal Rathod schrieb: > > Sorry Danny I am still not getting it. Now I am so confused that I think > I don't know what exactly a function does and what is it it returns. > > I have posted my code below with some comments regarding issues I don't > get. > > #!/usr/local/bin/python > > def euclid(a,b): > while b != 0: > c = a > a = b > b = c % a > print 'A = ', a > print 'B = ', b > return euclid(a,b) > # What will this return exactly? > else: > return a > > x = 100 > y = 20 > > result = euclid(x, y) > > # Why do we define x and y here seperately? > # Can't we have result = euclid(100,20) > # This apparently is not working. > > print x > print y > > # This always prints 100 and 20. I think it should print the present values > # of x and y which are not 100 and 20 always. > > print result > > # The result is given as 20 which I think is wrong. Is there anything > # wrong with my mathematical logic or my function? > > With warm regards, > -Payal > Your code is ok and gives the right result! e.g change: x, y = 25, 15 and you will get: >>> A = 15 B = 10 A = 10 B = 5 A = 5 B = 0 25 15 5 hmmm..., o.k., it's not perfektly ok, because ... def euclid(a,b): while b != 0: c = a a = b b = c % a # (1) normally it's not considered good practice to pu # print-statements in a function which aims at calculating # a numerical rsult. - # But here let's use it for getting insight in the working # of euclid print 'A = ', a print 'B = ', b # (2) here you use an uncoditional return - so the body of # the while-loop will be exited after the first run. # Consequently it will never work as a loop and you could # (a) use an if instead of while or # (b) drop the return and recursive call of euclid - # recursion also accomplishes some sort of iteration # and should/need/(must?) not be done in addition # to the while-iteration return euclid(a,b) else: return a x = 25 y = 15 result = euclid(x, y) print x print y print result ################################ # If you decide for the use of while you arrive at: def euclid(a,b): while b != 0: c = a a = b b = c % a print 'A = ', a print 'B = ', b # return euclid(a,b) # else: return a x = 25 y = 15 result = euclid(x, y) print x print y print result ######################################## an alternative is to decide for the use of recursion, in which case you arrive at: def euclid(a,b): if b != 0: c = a a = b b = c % a print 'A = ', a print 'B = ', b return euclid(a,b) else: return a x = 198 y = 94 result = euclid(x, y) print x print y print result # (3) here you can leave out the three statements # # c = a # a = b # b = c % a # # if think carefully about which values are to be # inserted as arguments in the recursive function # call. # What are the values of a and b respectively after # execution of these 3 statements. (Remember: ist is # perfectly right to insert arithmetic expressions like # a / b, a+b etc as arguments - in which case they # will be computed (evaluated( before the results are # "bound" to the parameters.) Finally you should delete (or comment out) the print statements! Hmmm, will this help? Regards, Gregor P.S.: Maybe http://www.ibiblio.org/obp/thinkCSpy/ , especially chapters 4 to 6, contains material, which could be helpful for you. From marta_andrea@libero.it Tue Jul 1 06:43:04 2003 From: marta_andrea@libero.it (=?iso-8859-1?Q?marta=5Fandrea?=) Date: Tue Jul 1 05:43:04 2003 Subject: [Tutor] =?iso-8859-1?Q?audiofile_manipulation?= Message-ID: Hi to all,=0D=0AI'd like to manipulate directly audiosamples. The idea is= to algorithmically calculate each sample value and then write it to fil= e (I know it's a huge task: but it can produce really interesting results= ).=0D=0A=0D=0AI cheked the docs but I am got a bit confused on audiofiles= manipulation.=0D=0A=0D=0ACould anyone (no hurry) post an exemple to do t= his?=0D=0A=0D=0AThanks a lot as usual for any hint!=0D=0A=0D=0A-a-=0D=0A=0D= =0A=0D=0A=0D=0AAndrea Valle From magnus@thinkware.se Tue Jul 1 08:49:01 2003 From: magnus@thinkware.se (Magnus =?iso-8859-1?Q?Lyck=E5?=) Date: Tue Jul 1 07:49:01 2003 Subject: [Tutor] encodings In-Reply-To: <001f01c33d14$25a9ef80$224c70dc@homeu0a59ztmqs> References: <5.2.1.1.0.20030613225247.01ef45c0@www.thinkware.se> <5.2.1.1.0.20030613225247.01ef45c0@www.thinkware.se> <5.2.1.1.0.20030614225808.01fb3a48@www.thinkware.se> Message-ID: <5.2.1.1.0.20030701133808.01f51230@www.thinkware.se> I suppose you meant for this to go to the mailing list. You seem to have sent it to me. It seems to me that GB2312 is a 16-bit encoding. As far as I know, Python handles 8-bit strings and Unicode. I don't know how to handle non-Unicode multi-byte strings in Python. Perhaps it can't be done? You will probably find more help at comp.lang.python or in the i18n-sig mailing list. See http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/i18n-sig At 09:25 2003-06-28 +0800, you wrote: >the new problem >i'm in default chinese gb2312 charset >in ./python23/lib/encoding/ no found gb2312 encode/decode >so i get gb2312 charset map from >ftp://ftp.unicode.org/Public/MAPPINGS/OBSOLETE/EASTASIA/GB/GB2312.TXT >exec /Python23/Tools/Scripts/gencodec.py get gb2312.py >put gb2312.py into /python23/lib/encoding/ >in IDLE 0.8 > >>> import codecs > >>> codecs.lookup('gb2312') >(0x01A073F0>>, instance at 0x01A07FD0>>, 0x010F04E0>, ) > >look fine! > >>> text='???' #chinese char > >>> text.decode('gb2312') >Traceback (most recent call last): > File "", line 1, in ? > text.decode('gb2312') > File "C:\Python23\lib\encodings\gb2312.py", line 22, in decode > return codecs.charmap_decode(input,errors,decoding_map) >UnicodeDecodeError: 'charmap' codec can't decode byte 0xbd in position 0: >character maps to > >why? >other > >>> text=u'abcd' > >>> text.encode('gb2312') >Traceback (most recent call last): > File "", line 1, in ? > text.encode('gb2312') > File "C:\Python23\lib\encodings\gb2312.py", line 18, in encode > return codecs.charmap_encode(input,errors,encoding_map) >UnicodeEncodeError: 'charmap' codec can't encode characters in position >0-3: character maps to > >What should I do ? -- Magnus Lycka (It's really Lyckå), magnus@thinkware.se Thinkware AB, Sweden, www.thinkware.se I code Python ~ The Agile Programming Language From DORSEY_EDMUND_K@LILLY.COM Tue Jul 1 11:29:02 2003 From: DORSEY_EDMUND_K@LILLY.COM (DORSEY_EDMUND_K@LILLY.COM) Date: Tue Jul 1 10:29:02 2003 Subject: [Tutor] Problems creating very large arrays (over 10 million indices) Message-ID: This is a multipart message in MIME format. --Boundary_(ID_lGig0Ad/t17kN9QAmb93eA) Content-type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" I need to initialize an array with sizes greater than 10 million indices. The reason for this is because I then proceed to fill in the array but jumping around. (The array is used to store binary medical image data) I tried using a for loop like so for i in range(0, arraySize): #arraySize being over 10 million myArray.append(0) #just use zero as a place holder WHen arraySize is small under 200,000 or so it works okay (though very very slow) Anything larger than this and it just crashes. I have 2 gigs of memory so I'm not running out of memory. Two Questions... 1) Why does this crash? 2) Is there a faster, stable way to do what I want to do Thank you for all the help ~Edmund Dorsey --Boundary_(ID_lGig0Ad/t17kN9QAmb93eA)-- From speno@isc.upenn.edu Tue Jul 1 11:37:03 2003 From: speno@isc.upenn.edu (John P Speno) Date: Tue Jul 1 10:37:03 2003 Subject: [Tutor] Problems creating very large arrays (over 10 million indices) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20030701143601.GA13464@isc.upenn.edu> > for i in range(0, arraySize): #arraySize being over 10 million > myArray.append(0) #just use zero as a place holder How about? myArray = [0] * arraySize From ATrautman@perryjudds.com Tue Jul 1 11:52:01 2003 From: ATrautman@perryjudds.com (Alan Trautman) Date: Tue Jul 1 10:52:01 2003 Subject: [Tutor] Problems creating very large arrays (over 10 million indices) Message-ID: <06738462136C054B8F8872D69DA140DB010825@corp-exch-1.pjinet.com> Edmund, An array as large as you want will require quite large computing power unless the stored data is binary. Questions: What are you storing (generic description) in each array position? Large amounts of data will require completely different structures. What can't the image be broken up into smaller regions? This is the way graphics are normally handled. By breaking images into squares (triangles for 3D graphics) the computer only has to deal with smaller regions at a time. If you can work on smaller regions the test will be a few choices: Sort the incoming file, pick a regional small array and extract its' data from the larger file, and/or take each data element as it comes and locate the smaller array, store and move to the next element. These are a few methods I can think of, I'm sure the list can come up with others. HTH Alan I need to initialize an array with sizes greater than 10 million indices. The reason for this is because I then proceed to fill in the array but jumping around. (The array is used to store binary medical image data) I tried using a for loop like so for i in range(0, arraySize): #arraySize being over 10 million myArray.append(0) #just use zero as a place holder WHen arraySize is small under 200,000 or so it works okay (though very very slow) Anything larger than this and it just crashes. I have 2 gigs of memory so I'm not running out of memory. Two Questions... 1) Why does this crash? 2) Is there a faster, stable way to do what I want to do Thank you for all the help ~Edmund Dorsey From zak@harlekin-maus.com Tue Jul 1 12:22:01 2003 From: zak@harlekin-maus.com (Zak Arntson) Date: Tue Jul 1 11:22:01 2003 Subject: [Tutor] Problems creating very large arrays (over 10 million indices) In-Reply-To: <06738462136C054B8F8872D69DA140DB010825@corp-exch-1.pjinet.com> References: <06738462136C054B8F8872D69DA140DB010825@corp-exch-1.pjinet.com> Message-ID: <1255.192.207.104.220.1057072895.squirrel@mail.harlekin-maus.com> > WHen arraySize is small under 200,000 or so it works okay (though very > very slow) Anything larger than this and it just crashes. I have 2 > gigs of memory so I'm not running out of memory. > ~Edmund Dorsey How is the data arranged? If there are many places where the value is 0, you could try storing the data in a dictionary, where the key is the 'index'. >>> def get_at(myDict, i): if myDict.has_key(i): return myDict[i] return 0 Or ... if you know there will be large spans of equal values, you could store the value as a dictionary key, and the key's value as a list or range. >>> d = {} # We have the value 12 from index 34 to 102 >>> d[34] = (34,102) Like Edmund said, it all depends on how the data's arranged. --- Zak Arntson www.harlekin-maus.com - Games - Lots of 'em From DORSEY_EDMUND_K@LILLY.COM Tue Jul 1 12:24:01 2003 From: DORSEY_EDMUND_K@LILLY.COM (DORSEY_EDMUND_K@LILLY.COM) Date: Tue Jul 1 11:24:01 2003 Subject: [Tutor] Problems creating very large arrays (over 10 million indices) Message-ID: This is a multipart message in MIME format. --Boundary_(ID_qTGNmyN8K8F3RpyBLuyTCQ) Content-type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" The data is stored as binary 16bit short to be precise. I'm writing some software to increase the resolution of ct images using a subvoxel processing algorithm. I've read the original binary file sans the header into an array and then created a larger empty array to place the new image data that will be created based on the algorithm I'm working with. Since I'm not doing any rendering breaking the image into smaller pieces wouldn't help (I think) because I'd still have to process each piece of data. Since it's voxel data (3d) I have to convert the 3d coordinates to a 1d array index. Thus splitting the data up would be a huge headache and start to become conceptually very difficult. In addition I'm jumping around the array (due to the fact that I'm placing 3d data in a 1d array) so the whole thing needs to be initialized at once. Using the following worked and reasonably fast (about 5 seconds to initialize an array with close to 100 million indices) myArray = [0] * arraySize Thanks for the help! ~Edmund Alan Trautman 07/01/2003 09:50 AM To: "'DORSEY_EDMUND_K@LILLY.COM'" , tutor@python.org cc: Subject: RE: [Tutor] Problems creating very large arrays (over 10 million indices) Edmund, An array as large as you want will require quite large computing power unless the stored data is binary. Questions: What are you storing (generic description) in each array position? Large amounts of data will require completely different structures. What can't the image be broken up into smaller regions? This is the way graphics are normally handled. By breaking images into squares (triangles for 3D graphics) the computer only has to deal with smaller regions at a time. If you can work on smaller regions the test will be a few choices: Sort the incoming file, pick a regional small array and extract its' data from the larger file, and/or take each data element as it comes and locate the smaller array, store and move to the next element. These are a few methods I can think of, I'm sure the list can come up with others. HTH Alan I need to initialize an array with sizes greater than 10 million indices. The reason for this is because I then proceed to fill in the array but jumping around. (The array is used to store binary medical image data) I tried using a for loop like so for i in range(0, arraySize): #arraySize being over 10 million myArray.append(0) #just use zero as a place holder WHen arraySize is small under 200,000 or so it works okay (though very very slow) Anything larger than this and it just crashes. I have 2 gigs of memory so I'm not running out of memory. Two Questions... 1) Why does this crash? 2) Is there a faster, stable way to do what I want to do Thank you for all the help ~Edmund Dorsey --Boundary_(ID_qTGNmyN8K8F3RpyBLuyTCQ)-- From camartin@snet.net Tue Jul 1 12:36:15 2003 From: camartin@snet.net (Cliff Martin) Date: Tue Jul 1 11:36:15 2003 Subject: [Tutor] Re: Tutor digest, Vol 1 #2559 - 14 msgs Readline code References: <20030701094304.20150.86113.Mailman@mail.python.org> Message-ID: <3F01AAAD.60309@snet.net> --------------020509010608030901030803 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Rick, Thanks for your response. I see that, at least for the print statement this is true but if I run the code of your second example and ask for the len(words) I only get the word length of the words in the last line. Why aren''t all the elements in the assignment words? I'm sure this is trivial but I'm certainly missing it. Thanks again. Cliff Martin tutor-request@python.org wrote: >Send Tutor mailing list submissions to > tutor@python.org > >To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor >or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > tutor-request@python.org > >You can reach the person managing the list at > tutor-admin@python.org > >When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific >than "Re: Contents of Tutor digest..." > > >Today's Topics: > > 1. Re: newbie 'while' question (Zak Arntson) > 2. Re: newbie 'while' question (Danny Yoo) > 3. Re: newbie 'while' question (Danny Yoo) > 4. Re: Re: Convert list to literal string. (Derrick 'dman' Hudson) > 5. Re: newbie 'while' question (Matthew Richardson) > 6. Re: newbie 'while' question (Zak Arntson) > 7. readlines code (Cliff Martin) > 8. writing a search engine (Kyle Babich) > 9. Re: readlines code (Rick Pasotto) > 10. Re: writing a search engine (Sean 'Shaleh' Perry) > 11. Re: finding factorials (Payal Rathod) > 12. compiling python apps (Michael Honeyfield) > 13. Re: finding factorials - hmm..., gcd (glingl) > 14. =?iso-8859-1?Q?audiofile_manipulation?= (=?iso-8859-1?Q?marta=5Fandrea?=) > >--__--__-- > >Message: 1 >Date: Mon, 30 Jun 2003 15:41:40 -0700 (PDT) >Subject: Re: [Tutor] newbie 'while' question >From: "Zak Arntson" >To: > > > >>Which works great. I'm still stuck on how to do Zak's method of >>manipulating the string, but starting to feel better about 'while' now. >> >>Thanks, >>Matt >> >> > >Here's some code, missing stuff: > >s = raw_input('>') >while s: # when will the while loop be done? > print s[??] # ?? is some value > s = ?? # you want to change s > >--- >Zak Arntson >www.harlekin-maus.com - Games - Lots of 'em > > > > >--__--__-- > >Message: 2 >Date: Mon, 30 Jun 2003 15:43:37 -0700 (PDT) >From: Danny Yoo >To: Matthew Richardson >cc: Python Tutor >Subject: Re: [Tutor] newbie 'while' question > > > > > >>>In mathematical terms, we'd say that we'd like a half-open range, >>> >>> >>> 0 <= x < length of "Matthew Ricahrdson" >>> >>> >>>And we'll find that the equivalent expression in Python is very similar to >>>this. *grin* >>> >>> >>>I hope this gives some hints on how to correct the while 'condition' >>>expression. Good luck! >>> >>> >>I knew I should have paid more attention in math... >> >> > > >You did have the right approach. That is, you approached it from the >left: > > while x >= 0: # 0 <= x > >You just had to have the right approach. *grin* > > while x < len(s): # x < len(s) > > > > > >By the way, it turns out that we can do both directions at the same time: > > while 0 <= x < len(s): # 0 <= x and x < len(s) > > >which is a safe way to go about it. Of course, only a few programmers I >know will ever write the condition like this. *grin* Most will just >write: > > x < len(s) > >and just assume that x is nonnegative. Crazy programmers. *grin* > > > >Good luck to you! > > > >--__--__-- > >Message: 3 >Date: Mon, 30 Jun 2003 15:53:24 -0700 (PDT) >From: Danny Yoo >To: Eric L Howard >cc: Python Tutor >Subject: Re: [Tutor] newbie 'while' question > > > > > >>>This is very close to the correct solution. You get the number of >>>characters in the string with the len() built-in function. But >>> >>> s = raw_input('Enter a name: ') >>> x = 0 >>> while x <= len(s): >>> print s[x] >>> x += 1 >>> >>>will still result in an IndexError (even though it's close to being >>>correct). Do you see why? >>> >>> >>[newbie swing ;-)] >> >>I know it works, but would it be bad to do something like >> >>s = raw_input('Enter a name: ') >> for x in range(0, len(s)): >> print s[x] >> >>There's no need to initialize x, or declare our math statement in the >>code. Thoughts, corrections? >> >> > > >Hi Eric, > > >Sure, this works great, and you're right: the 'for' loop is the more >appropriate looping construct here, since we're going along the letters of >the name. > > >We can even do: > >### >s = raw_input('Enter a name: ') >for ch in s: > print ch >### > >and skip the manual indicing altogether. *grin* > > >Strings are like Lists --- they are both "sequences" --- and the 'for' >loop can deal with them uniformly. Matt's question asked to do it with >'while', but in real life code, the 'for' loop is usually easier to >construct because it's less open-ended than 'while'. > > >Good luck! > > > >--__--__-- > >Message: 4 >Date: Mon, 30 Jun 2003 18:53:37 -0400 >From: "Derrick 'dman' Hudson" >To: tutor@python.org >Subject: Re: [Tutor] Re: Convert list to literal string. > > >--vEao7xgI/oilGqZ+ >Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii >Content-Disposition: inline >Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > >On Sat, Jun 28, 2003 at 10:00:04AM -0500, David wrote: > >| I can make a loop and process the info. > >Dealing with the list of data is certainly doable. You still didn't >provide the code that shows how you ended up with a list (how!? >command line arguments are strings until you parse them into something >else) so I can't explain what you are doing wrong. > >Abel already reminded you of > ','.join( ['IBM', 'EK', 'MO', 'UTX'] ) > >(if this helps you, then I suspect you called .split() on the command >line argument, and that's where your list came from) > >[... lots and lots of snip ...] >| --addstocks IBM,EK,MO,UTX > >This is easy. See sample (but untested) code below : > > >import sys >import getopt > >try: > opts, args =3D getopt.getopt(sys.argv[1:], "", ["addstocks=3D"]) >except getopt.GetoptError: > # print help information and exit: > usage() # Note: you have to define this function! > sys.exit(2) > >stock_labels =3D None >for o, a in opts: > if o =3D=3D "--addstocks" : > stock_labels =3D a > >if not stock_labels : > usage() > sys.exit(3) > >print stock_labels >print type(stock_labels) >print stock_labels.__class__ # use this with python >=3D 2.2 >addstock( stock_labels ) > > >-D > >--=20 >A violent man entices his neighbor >and leads him down a path that is not good. > Proverbs 16:29 >=20 >http://dman13.dyndns.org/~dman/ > >--vEao7xgI/oilGqZ+ >Content-Type: application/pgp-signature >Content-Disposition: inline > >-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- >Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (GNU/Linux) >Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org > >iEYEARECAAYFAj8Av3EACgkQiB6vp1xAVUAiuwCeNkrIAAt2rnOS68eJ7w4Y92h2 >MIoAnjnLumBlZlLlNUqGY6BCZeprMnBu >=7tgh >-----END PGP SIGNATURE----- > >--vEao7xgI/oilGqZ+-- > > >--__--__-- > >Message: 5 >Date: Mon, 30 Jun 2003 16:04:14 -0700 >From: Matthew Richardson >Subject: Re: [Tutor] newbie 'while' question >To: Danny Yoo >Cc: Eric L Howard , Python Tutor >Organization: > >On Mon, 2003-06-30 at 15:53, Danny Yoo wrote: > > >>>>This is very close to the correct solution. You get the number of >>>>characters in the string with the len() built-in function. But >>>> >>>> s = raw_input('Enter a name: ') >>>> x = 0 >>>> while x <= len(s): >>>> print s[x] >>>> x += 1 >>>> >>>>will still result in an IndexError (even though it's close to being >>>>correct). Do you see why? >>>> >>>> >>>[newbie swing ;-)] >>> >>>I know it works, but would it be bad to do something like >>> >>>s = raw_input('Enter a name: ') >>> for x in range(0, len(s)): >>> print s[x] >>> >>>There's no need to initialize x, or declare our math statement in the >>>code. Thoughts, corrections? >>> >>> >>Hi Eric, >> >> >>Sure, this works great, and you're right: the 'for' loop is the more >>appropriate looping construct here, since we're going along the letters of >>the name. >> >> >>We can even do: >> >>### >>s = raw_input('Enter a name: ') >>for ch in s: >> print ch >>### >> >>and skip the manual indicing altogether. *grin* >> >> >>Strings are like Lists --- they are both "sequences" --- and the 'for' >>loop can deal with them uniformly. Matt's question asked to do it with >>'while', but in real life code, the 'for' loop is usually easier to >>construct because it's less open-ended than 'while'. >> >> >>Good luck! >> >> >> > >The exercise is out of Wesley Chun's 'Core Python Programming.' The for >loop was far easier for me, but the exercise was to perform the same >task both ways. No point in skipping over the 'hard' material in the >name of expediency. I want to get a firm grip on this and ploughing >through all of the examples is the only way I'll get it. > >Now for Zak's string manipulation.... > >Matt > > > --------------020509010608030901030803 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Rick,

Thanks for your response. I see that, at least for the print statement this is true but if I run the code of  your second example and ask for the len(words) I only get the word length of the words in the last line.  Why aren''t all the elements in the assignment words? I'm sure this is trivial but I'm certainly missing it.  Thanks again.

Cliff Martin

tutor-request@python.org wrote:
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Today's Topics:

   1. Re: newbie 'while' question (Zak Arntson)
   2. Re: newbie 'while' question (Danny Yoo)
   3. Re: newbie 'while' question (Danny Yoo)
   4. Re: Re: Convert list to literal string. (Derrick 'dman' Hudson)
   5. Re: newbie 'while' question (Matthew Richardson)
   6. Re: newbie 'while' question (Zak Arntson)
   7. readlines code (Cliff Martin)
   8. writing a search engine (Kyle Babich)
   9. Re: readlines code (Rick Pasotto)
  10. Re: writing a search engine (Sean 'Shaleh' Perry)
  11. Re: finding factorials (Payal Rathod)
  12. compiling python apps (Michael Honeyfield)
  13. Re: finding factorials - hmm..., gcd (glingl)
  14. =?iso-8859-1?Q?audiofile_manipulation?= (=?iso-8859-1?Q?marta=5Fandrea?=)

--__--__--

Message: 1
Date: Mon, 30 Jun 2003 15:41:40 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Re: [Tutor] newbie 'while' question
From: "Zak Arntson" <zak@harlekin-maus.com>
To: <tutor@python.org>

  
Which works great.  I'm still stuck on how to do Zak's method of
manipulating the string, but starting to feel better about 'while' now.

Thanks,
Matt
    

Here's some code, missing stuff:

s = raw_input('>')
while s:    # when will the while loop be done?
    print s[??]   # ?? is some value
    s = ?? # you want to change s

---
Zak Arntson
www.harlekin-maus.com - Games - Lots of 'em




--__--__--

Message: 2
Date: Mon, 30 Jun 2003 15:43:37 -0700 (PDT)
From: Danny Yoo <dyoo@hkn.eecs.berkeley.edu>
To: Matthew Richardson <marichar@csusb.edu>
cc: Python Tutor <tutor@python.org>
Subject: Re: [Tutor] newbie 'while' question



  
In mathematical terms, we'd say that we'd like a half-open range,


         0  <=  x   < length of "Matthew Ricahrdson"


And we'll find that the equivalent expression in Python is very similar to
this.  *grin*


I hope this gives some hints on how to correct the while 'condition'
expression.  Good luck!
      
I knew I should have paid more attention in math...
    


You did have the right approach.  That is, you approached it from the
left:

    while x >= 0:                   #  0 <= x

You just had to have the right approach.  *grin*

    while x < len(s):               #  x < len(s)





By the way, it turns out that we can do both directions at the same time:

    while 0 <= x < len(s):          #  0 <= x and x < len(s)


which is a safe way to go about it.  Of course, only a few programmers I
know will ever write the condition like this.  *grin* Most will just
write:

    x < len(s)

and just assume that x is nonnegative.  Crazy programmers.  *grin*



Good luck to you!



--__--__--

Message: 3
Date: Mon, 30 Jun 2003 15:53:24 -0700 (PDT)
From: Danny Yoo <dyoo@hkn.eecs.berkeley.edu>
To: Eric L Howard <elh@outreachnetworks.com>
cc: Python Tutor <tutor@python.org>
Subject: Re: [Tutor] newbie 'while' question



  
This is very close to the correct solution.  You get the number of
characters in the string with the len() built-in function.  But

  s = raw_input('Enter a name: ')
  x = 0
  while x <= len(s):
      print s[x]
      x += 1

will still result in an IndexError (even though it's close to being
correct).  Do you see why?
      
[newbie swing ;-)]

I know it works, but would it be bad to do something like

s = raw_input('Enter a name: ')
    for x in range(0, len(s)):
    print s[x]

There's no need to initialize x, or declare our math statement in the
code. Thoughts, corrections?
    


Hi Eric,


Sure, this works great, and you're right: the 'for' loop is the more
appropriate looping construct here, since we're going along the letters of
the name.


We can even do:

###
s = raw_input('Enter a name: ')
for ch in s:
    print ch
###

and skip the manual indicing altogether.  *grin*


Strings are like Lists --- they are both "sequences" --- and the 'for'
loop can deal with them uniformly.  Matt's question asked to do it with
'while', but in real life code, the 'for' loop is usually easier to
construct because it's less open-ended than 'while'.


Good luck!



--__--__--

Message: 4
Date: Mon, 30 Jun 2003 18:53:37 -0400
From: "Derrick 'dman' Hudson" <dman@dman13.dyndns.org>
To: tutor@python.org
Subject: Re: [Tutor] Re: Convert list to literal string.


--vEao7xgI/oilGqZ+
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Disposition: inline
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

On Sat, Jun 28, 2003 at 10:00:04AM -0500, David wrote:

| I can make a loop and process the info.

Dealing with the list of data is certainly doable.  You still didn't
provide the code that shows how you ended up with a list (how!?
command line arguments are strings until you parse them into something
else) so I can't explain what you are doing wrong.

Abel already reminded you of
    ','.join( ['IBM', 'EK', 'MO', 'UTX'] )

(if this helps you, then I suspect you called .split() on the command
line argument, and that's where your list came from)

[... lots and lots of snip ...]
| --addstocks  IBM,EK,MO,UTX

This is easy.  See sample (but untested) code below :


import sys
import getopt

try:
    opts, args =3D getopt.getopt(sys.argv[1:], "", ["addstocks=3D"])
except getopt.GetoptError:
    # print help information and exit:
    usage()     # Note: you have to define this function!
    sys.exit(2)

stock_labels =3D None
for o, a in opts:
    if o =3D=3D "--addstocks" :
        stock_labels =3D a

if not stock_labels :
    usage()
    sys.exit(3)

print stock_labels
print type(stock_labels)
print stock_labels.__class__  # use this with python >=3D 2.2
addstock( stock_labels )


-D

--=20
A violent man entices his neighbor
and leads him down a path that is not good.
        Proverbs 16:29
=20
http://dman13.dyndns.org/~dman/

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Message: 5
Date: Mon, 30 Jun 2003 16:04:14 -0700
From: Matthew Richardson <marichar@csusb.edu>
Subject: Re: [Tutor] newbie 'while' question
To: Danny Yoo <dyoo@hkn.eecs.berkeley.edu>
Cc: Eric L Howard <elh@outreachnetworks.com>, Python Tutor <tutor@python.org>
Organization:

On Mon, 2003-06-30 at 15:53, Danny Yoo wrote:
  
This is very close to the correct solution.  You get the number of
characters in the string with the len() built-in function.  But

  s = raw_input('Enter a name: ')
  x = 0
  while x <= len(s):
      print s[x]
      x += 1

will still result in an IndexError (even though it's close to being
correct).  Do you see why?
        
[newbie swing ;-)]

I know it works, but would it be bad to do something like

s = raw_input('Enter a name: ')
    for x in range(0, len(s)):
    print s[x]

There's no need to initialize x, or declare our math statement in the
code. Thoughts, corrections?
      
Hi Eric,


Sure, this works great, and you're right: the 'for' loop is the more
appropriate looping construct here, since we're going along the letters of
the name.


We can even do:

###
s = raw_input('Enter a name: ')
for ch in s:
    print ch
###

and skip the manual indicing altogether.  *grin*


Strings are like Lists --- they are both "sequences" --- and the 'for'
loop can deal with them uniformly.  Matt's question asked to do it with
'while', but in real life code, the 'for' loop is usually easier to
construct because it's less open-ended than 'while'.


Good luck!

    

The exercise is out of Wesley Chun's 'Core Python Programming.'  The for
loop was far easier for me, but the exercise was to perform the same
task both ways.  No point in skipping over the 'hard' material in the
name of expediency.  I want to get a firm grip on this and ploughing
through all of the examples is the only way I'll get it.

Now for Zak's string manipulation....

Matt

--------------020509010608030901030803-- From tpc@csua.berkeley.edu Tue Jul 1 12:52:01 2003 From: tpc@csua.berkeley.edu (tpc@csua.berkeley.edu) Date: Tue Jul 1 11:52:01 2003 Subject: [Tutor] writing a search engine In-Reply-To: <20030701014813.3D7166BDCD@smtp.us2.messagingengine.com> Message-ID: <20030701084357.X55683-100000@localhost.name> this site hosts a (no longer maintained) quick and dirty search engine: http://www.melbpc.org.au/pcupdate/2012/2012article10.htm it's ok for getting a working example up, although it only indexes from the virtual index apache creates or an index.html file in a given directory. Also, its stop words list doesn't seem to work at all, and it doesn't do phrase searching or highlighted terms in results. It also is not a Google type of index, which ranks results by how many links point to the page as well as keyword matching. On Mon, 30 Jun 2003, Kyle Babich wrote: > Any suggestions on where to start? I plan on writing one for a small > site of mine. It will basically be "google-style"- simple and > functional. The item being searched will be text files, where users can > search based on title, contents, or both. I was reading through some > books but I'm stumped on where to begin. I've never tried writing > something even similar to a search engine and I guess I'm little > confused/overwhelmed/bewildered. :) You guys always come to the rescue > for me, so how about one more time? > -- > Kyle > > _______________________________________________ > Tutor maillist - Tutor@python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor > From Janssen@rz.uni-frankfurt.de Tue Jul 1 13:13:03 2003 From: Janssen@rz.uni-frankfurt.de (Michael Janssen) Date: Tue Jul 1 12:13:03 2003 Subject: [Tutor] Problems creating very large arrays (over 10 million indices) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Tue, 1 Jul 2003 DORSEY_EDMUND_K@LILLY.COM wrote: > Using the following worked and reasonably fast (about 5 seconds to > initialize an array with close to 100 million indices) > > myArray = [0] * arraySize your first testcase: for i in range(0, arraySize): #arraySize being over 10 million myArray.append(0) #just use zero as a place holder builds both a "range" list fom 0 till arraySize as also myArray. Beside the time for the append operation (and subsequents efforts to aquire more memory) you will need twice the time of "consuming memory". "xrange" is better with for-loops over wide ranges: it doesn't build the list but just iterate trough the items (doing some behind-the-scene-magic). k = range(10000000) consumes 150 MB (from 512 RAM) on my Computer (linux i686 glibc?). "del k" frees just 40 MB. Exiting the python interpreter releases memory until former state (measured with "free -m". Just one testrun). This is much - but not enough to freeze a machine. Michael > > Thanks for the help! > > ~Edmund > > > > > > > Alan Trautman > 07/01/2003 09:50 AM > > > To: "'DORSEY_EDMUND_K@LILLY.COM'" , > tutor@python.org > cc: > Subject: RE: [Tutor] Problems creating very large arrays (over 10 million indices) > > > Edmund, > > An array as large as you want will require quite large computing power > unless the stored data is binary. > > Questions: > What are you storing (generic description) in each array position? Large > amounts of data will require completely different structures. > > What can't the image be broken up into smaller regions? This is the way > graphics are normally handled. By breaking images into squares (triangles > for 3D graphics) the computer only has to deal with smaller regions at a > time. > > > If you can work on smaller regions the test will be a few choices: Sort > the > incoming file, pick a regional small array and extract its' data from the > larger file, and/or take each data element as it comes and locate the > smaller array, store and move to the next element. These are a few methods > I > can think of, I'm sure the list can come up with others. > > > HTH > Alan > > > I need to initialize an array with sizes greater than 10 million indices. > The reason for this is because I then proceed to fill in the array but > jumping around. (The array is used to store binary medical image data) I > > tried using a for loop like so > > > for i in range(0, arraySize): #arraySize being over 10 million > myArray.append(0) #just use zero as a place holder > > WHen arraySize is small under 200,000 or so it works okay (though very > very slow) Anything larger than this and it just crashes. I have 2 gigs > of memory so I'm not running out of memory. > > Two Questions... > > 1) Why does this crash? > 2) Is there a faster, stable way to do what I want to do > > Thank you for all the help > > ~Edmund Dorsey > > > > From Zabelkind@web.de Tue Jul 1 13:20:02 2003 From: Zabelkind@web.de (Mathias Mamsch) Date: Tue Jul 1 12:20:02 2003 Subject: [Tutor] writing a search engine References: <20030701014813.3D7166BDCD@smtp.us2.messagingengine.com> Message-ID: <007601c33fec$d5d00f40$0500a8c0@nias> > Any suggestions on where to start? I plan on writing one for a small > site of mine. It will basically be "google-style"- simple and > functional. The item being searched will be text files, where users can > search based on title, contents, or both. I was reading through some > books but I'm stumped on where to begin. I've never tried writing > something even similar to a search engine and I guess I'm little > confused/overwhelmed/bewildered. :) You guys always come to the rescue > for me, so how about one more time? > -- > Kyle > So the problem is you cannot search all your documents, after the user entered the text. Its clear that you have to do some "hashing", that means search the documents offline and create a list of keywords and their corresponding references. An easy example would be, to store every word, which appears in your documents as a key in a dictionary and the value could be the file the word appeared in and the position of the word in the file. So when you get a search query from the user, you search your list and have all occurences of the word. Modern search engines like google use complex algorithms for hashing the keywords in the documents, that is why they are so fast. Greetings Mathias Mamsch From highrik@ntlworld.com Tue Jul 1 14:12:02 2003 From: highrik@ntlworld.com (Rick Thomas) Date: Tue Jul 1 13:12:02 2003 Subject: [Tutor] Shebang problem In-Reply-To: <20030627163402.GA3949@hooloovoo> References: <200306271715.59089.highrik@ntlworld.com> <20030627163402.GA3949@hooloovoo> Message-ID: <200307011818.55845.highrik@ntlworld.com> On Friday 27 June 2003 17:34, Abel Daniel wrote: > Rick Thomas wrote: > > Hi, > > > > I'm very new to programming and am plodding my way through Alan Gauld's > > book 'Learn to Program Using Python'. At present I can't get my programs > > to execute using the Shebang trick. > > > > #!/usr/bin/python > > > > My scripts ran fine when I was using SuSE 7.3 but I've recently upgraded > > to 8.3 and wondered if this is somehow the problem. My scripts run ok > > if I type for example 'python foo.py' in a terminal. > > > > Any advice would be much appreciated. Abel Daniel advised > Pasting the exact error message would have helped to narrow the problem, > but here are some ideas: > > - try 'which python' to find out which program runs when you do > 'python foo.py'. That way you can be sure that you are trying to use the > same interpreter in both cases. > > - you could try using a '#!/usr/bin/env python' shebang line, which will > more-or-less ensure that you get the same interpreter. (I guess this > won't help if the idea above didn't.) > > - check that you have executable permissions on the file. > > Abel Daniel The exact error message I get is 'bash: foo.py: command not found'. When I type in 'which python' at a terminal I get /usr/bin/python which is the correct path for my scripts. I've tried changing the shebang line to #!/usr/bin/env python but I got the same error message as above. I know all my scripts are executable as I've always used the 'chmod' u+x command after creating a script file. further advice would be much appriciated. Rick Thomas. ______________________________________________ Tutor maillist - Tutor@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor From marichar@csusb.edu Tue Jul 1 14:16:03 2003 From: marichar@csusb.edu (Matthew Richardson) Date: Tue Jul 1 13:16:03 2003 Subject: [Tutor] Shebang problem In-Reply-To: <200307011818.55845.highrik@ntlworld.com> References: <200306271715.59089.highrik@ntlworld.com> <20030627163402.GA3949@hooloovoo> <200307011818.55845.highrik@ntlworld.com> Message-ID: <1057079698.567.5.camel@matthew-richardsons-computer.local> On Tue, 2003-07-01 at 10:18, Rick Thomas wrote: > On Friday 27 June 2003 17:34, Abel Daniel wrote: > > Rick Thomas wrote: > > > Hi, > > > > > > I'm very new to programming and am plodding my way through Alan Gauld's > > > book 'Learn to Program Using Python'. At present I can't get my programs > > > to execute using the Shebang trick. > > > > > > #!/usr/bin/python > > > > > > My scripts ran fine when I was using SuSE 7.3 but I've recently upgraded > > > to 8.3 and wondered if this is somehow the problem. My scripts run ok > > > if I type for example 'python foo.py' in a terminal. > > > > > > Any advice would be much appreciated. > > Abel Daniel advised > > > Pasting the exact error message would have helped to narrow the problem, > > but here are some ideas: > > > > - try 'which python' to find out which program runs when you do > > 'python foo.py'. That way you can be sure that you are trying to use the > > same interpreter in both cases. > > > > - you could try using a '#!/usr/bin/env python' shebang line, which will > > more-or-less ensure that you get the same interpreter. (I guess this > > won't help if the idea above didn't.) > > > > - check that you have executable permissions on the file. > > > > Abel Daniel > > The exact error message I get is 'bash: foo.py: command not found'. When I > type in 'which python' at a terminal I get /usr/bin/python which is the > correct path for my scripts. I've tried changing the shebang line to > #!/usr/bin/env python but I got the same error message as above. I know all > my scripts are executable as I've always used the 'chmod' u+x command after > creating a script file. > > further advice would be much appriciated. > > Rick Thomas. > Have you tried executing the script with the full path name or changing to the directory it is in and executing it with ./foo.py? --Matt -- Matt Richardson Instructional Support Technician Department of Art CSU San Bernardino From DORSEY_EDMUND_K@LILLY.COM Tue Jul 1 15:22:02 2003 From: DORSEY_EDMUND_K@LILLY.COM (DORSEY_EDMUND_K@LILLY.COM) Date: Tue Jul 1 14:22:02 2003 Subject: [Tutor] Problems creating very large arrays (over 10 million indices) Message-ID: This is a multipart message in MIME format. --Boundary_(ID_RCFIgHm6ndEwQkUSS7kpmA) Content-type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" I tried creating a Numeric array but I couldn't get the binary data into it. The array module was so great cause I could just use readfile to read in the entire file at once. I tried this ... a = Numeric.ones((xsize, ysize, zsize), Numeric.Int16) #create 3d numeric array of type short filled with ones (placeholders) a[0][0][0] = file.read(2) #read in two bytes and stick it in the array Of course it says the that the array 'a' needs an int as input. Plus if I do this method I need to use 3 nested for loops and it is significantly slower than using a normal 1d array. Is this how I would have to do it with the Numeric module? Thanks for all the input you've given. ~Edmund Edmund, Given the size of your arrays and that they are 3 dimensional, you may want to take a look at the Numeric package or the relatively new numarray package. They can handle multi-dimensional data in a very efficient manner. They both can be found on sourceforge at http://sourceforge.net/projects/numpy/ ------------------------- original message ----------------------------------- The data is stored as binary 16bit short to be precise. I'm writing some software to increase the resolution of ct images using a subvoxel processing algorithm. I've read the original binary file sans the header into an array and then created a larger empty array to place the new image data that will be created based on the algorithm I'm working with. Since I'm not doing any rendering breaking the image into smaller pieces wouldn't help (I think) because I'd still have to process each piece of data. Since it's voxel data (3d) I have to convert the 3d coordinates to a 1d array index. Thus splitting the data up would be a huge headache and start to become conceptually very difficult. In addition I'm jumping around the array (due to the fact that I'm placing 3d data in a 1d array) so the whole thing needs to be initialized at once. Using the following worked and reasonably fast (about 5 seconds to initialize an array with close to 100 million indices) myArray = [0] * arraySize Thanks for the help! ~Edmund ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- HTH, -Reggie --Boundary_(ID_RCFIgHm6ndEwQkUSS7kpmA)-- From rick@niof.net Tue Jul 1 15:23:09 2003 From: rick@niof.net (Rick Pasotto) Date: Tue Jul 1 14:23:09 2003 Subject: [Tutor] Shebang problem In-Reply-To: <200307011818.55845.highrik@ntlworld.com> References: <200306271715.59089.highrik@ntlworld.com> <20030627163402.GA3949@hooloovoo> <200307011818.55845.highrik@ntlworld.com> Message-ID: <20030701175450.GC5712@niof.net> On Tue, Jul 01, 2003 at 06:18:55PM +0100, Rick Thomas wrote: > > The exact error message I get is 'bash: foo.py: command not found'. When I > type in 'which python' at a terminal I get /usr/bin/python which is the > correct path for my scripts. I've tried changing the shebang line to > #!/usr/bin/env python but I got the same error message as above. I know all > my scripts are executable as I've always used the 'chmod' u+x command after > creating a script file. > > further advice would be much appriciated. Did M$ get involved? I've encountered that error message when the lines ended in '\r\n' instead of just '\n'. -- "Of all the sexual aberrations, perhaps the most peculiar is chastity." -- Remy de Gourmont Rick Pasotto rick@niof.net http://www.niof.net From payal-python@staticky.com Tue Jul 1 15:58:02 2003 From: payal-python@staticky.com (Payal Rathod) Date: Tue Jul 1 14:58:02 2003 Subject: [Tutor] finding factorials - hmm..., gcd In-Reply-To: <200307010915.h619FGc02559@ada.rg16.asn-wien.ac.at> References: <200307010915.h619FGc02559@ada.rg16.asn-wien.ac.at> Message-ID: <20030701185705.GA4607@linux.local> On Tue, Jul 01, 2003 at 11:15:01AM +0100, glingl wrote: > Your code is ok and gives the right result! > e.g change: x, y = 25, 15 and you will get: Are you sure? I mean I don't get what a common factor means? Can you tell? > # (1) normally it's not considered good practice to pu > # print-statements in a function which aims at calculating > # a numerical rsult. - Why??? I mean it is good for troubleshooting/debugging. > # (2) here you use an uncoditional return - so the body of > # the while-loop will be exited after the first run. I don't get this. You mean to say that once I type return euclid(a,b), the while loop stops? Why? Also, if it does not get executed how am I getting right answers as you say? > # Consequently it will never work as a loop and you could > # (a) use an if instead of while or Can you point a small example in *this* context using an if statement? > # (b) drop the return and recursive call of euclid - > # recursion also accomplishes some sort of iteration > # and should/need/(must?) not be done in addition > # to the while-iteration I didn't get your meaning on this too, please. > # (3) here you can leave out the three statements > # > # c = a > # a = b > # b = c % a > # > # if think carefully about which values are to be > # inserted as arguments in the recursive function > # call. > # What are the values of a and b respectively after > # execution of these 3 statements. (Remember: ist is > # perfectly right to insert arithmetic expressions like > # a / b, a+b etc as arguments - in which case they > # will be computed (evaluated( before the results are > # "bound" to the parameters.) Ahh! Sorry again, I didn't get you. I don't understand much programmers jargon. The whole paragraph looks greek to me. > P.S.: Maybe http://www.ibiblio.org/obp/thinkCSpy/ , > especially chapters 4 to 6, > contains material, which could be helpful for you. I had read them 2 days back. Maybe I should read them again. Thanks a lot for the time and patience. With warm regards, -Payal -- "Visit GNU/Linux Success Stories" http://payal.staticky.com Guest-Book Section Updated. From glingl@aon.at Tue Jul 1 16:11:02 2003 From: glingl@aon.at (Gregor Lingl) Date: Tue Jul 1 15:11:02 2003 Subject: [Tutor] finding factorials References: <20030630141707.GA1882@linux.local> <20030701023901.GA1603@linux.local> Message-ID: <3F01DD02.4080002@aon.at> Payal Rathod schrieb: Hello Payal! I think I should have made some comments on your comments -- >On Mon, Jun 30, 2003 at 10:33:36AM -0700, Danny Yoo wrote: > > >>Same mistake as last time. *grin* The code is simply dropping the value >>that you're calculating from doing euclid(). We need to capture that >>value: >> >> > >Sorry Danny I am still not getting it. Now I am so confused that I think >I don't know what exactly a function does and what is it it returns. > >I have posted my code below with some comments regarding issues I don't >get. > >#!/usr/local/bin/python > >def euclid(a,b): > while b != 0: > c = a > a = b > b = c % a > print 'A = ', a > print 'B = ', b > return euclid(a,b) ># What will this return exactly? > #- this will return the gcd of b and the rest when a is divided by b > else: > return a > >x = 100 >y = 20 > >result = euclid(x, y) > ># Why do we define x and y here seperately? ># Can't we have result = euclid(100,20) ># This apparently is not working. > #-- I tried it out and it - not surprisingly - worked! > >print x >print y > ># This always prints 100 and 20. I think it should print the present values ># of x and y which are not 100 and 20 always. > > #-- These remain 100 and 20 respectively, because your code doesn't contain #-- statements, which change the values of x and y. #-- Only the values of a and b (and c) are changed, but these are entirely different #-- variables, local to the function euclid and not globally visible. The change of #-- their values is revealed by your print-statements. >print result > ># The result is given as 20 which I think is wrong. > #-- Why do you think this is wrong? What do you think is the greatest #-- common divisor of 100 and 20? ># Is there anything ># wrong with my mathematical logic or my function? > > #-- Hmm ??? See my previous posting. Best wishes, Gregor >With warm regards, >-Payal > > > > From reggie@merfinllc.com Tue Jul 1 16:17:01 2003 From: reggie@merfinllc.com (Reggie Dugard) Date: Tue Jul 1 15:17:01 2003 Subject: [Tutor] Problems creating very large arrays (over 10 million indices) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1057086956.24474.19.camel@pika> Edmund, Assuming that fp is a file object opened for reading your file and that you've already read past the header, maybe one of these will work for you: a = Numeric.fromstring(fp.read(), Numeric.Int16) Numeric.reshape(a, (xsize, ysize, zsize)) OR a = numarray.fromfile(fp, numarray.Int16, (xsize, ysize, zsize)) I don't have much experience reading in data from outside sources, so I can't say that I've tested these, but I hope they steer you in the right direction. On Tue, 2003-07-01 at 11:20, DORSEY_EDMUND_K@LILLY.COM wrote: > I tried creating a Numeric array but I couldn't get the binary data into > it. The array module was so great cause I could just use readfile to read > in the entire file at once. > > I tried this ... > > a = Numeric.ones((xsize, ysize, zsize), Numeric.Int16) #create 3d numeric > array of type short filled with ones (placeholders) > a[0][0][0] = file.read(2) #read in two bytes and stick it in the array > > Of course it says the that the array 'a' needs an int as input. Plus if I > do this method I need to use 3 nested for loops and it is significantly > slower than using a normal 1d array. Is this how I would have to do it > with the Numeric module? Thanks for all the input you've given. > > ~Edmund > > > > > > Edmund, > > Given the size of your arrays and that they are 3 dimensional, you may > want > to take a look at the Numeric package or the relatively new numarray > package. They can handle multi-dimensional data in a very efficient > manner. > They both can be found on sourceforge at > > http://sourceforge.net/projects/numpy/ > -- Reggie From reggie@merfinllc.com Tue Jul 1 16:23:01 2003 From: reggie@merfinllc.com (Reggie Dugard) Date: Tue Jul 1 15:23:01 2003 Subject: [Tutor] Problems creating very large arrays (over 10 million indices) In-Reply-To: <1057086956.24474.19.camel@pika> References: <1057086956.24474.19.camel@pika> Message-ID: <1057087331.24474.25.camel@pika> Sorry, I was a little too fast on the send button on that last message. The first example should read: a = Numeric.fromstring(fp.read(), Numeric.Int16) a = Numeric.reshape(a, (xsize, ysize, zsize)) On Tue, 2003-07-01 at 12:15, Reggie Dugard wrote: > Edmund, > > Assuming that fp is a file object opened for reading your file and that > you've already read past the header, maybe one of these will work for > you: > > a = Numeric.fromstring(fp.read(), Numeric.Int16) > Numeric.reshape(a, (xsize, ysize, zsize)) > > OR > > a = numarray.fromfile(fp, numarray.Int16, (xsize, ysize, zsize)) > > I don't have much experience reading in data from outside sources, so I > can't say that I've tested these, but I hope they steer you in the right > direction. > > > On Tue, 2003-07-01 at 11:20, DORSEY_EDMUND_K@LILLY.COM wrote: > > I tried creating a Numeric array but I couldn't get the binary data into > > it. The array module was so great cause I could just use readfile to read > > in the entire file at once. > > > > I tried this ... > > > > a = Numeric.ones((xsize, ysize, zsize), Numeric.Int16) #create 3d numeric > > array of type short filled with ones (placeholders) > > a[0][0][0] = file.read(2) #read in two bytes and stick it in the array > > > > Of course it says the that the array 'a' needs an int as input. Plus if I > > do this method I need to use 3 nested for loops and it is significantly > > slower than using a normal 1d array. Is this how I would have to do it > > with the Numeric module? Thanks for all the input you've given. > > > > ~Edmund > > > > > > > > > > > > Edmund, > > > > Given the size of your arrays and that they are 3 dimensional, you may > > want > > to take a look at the Numeric package or the relatively new numarray > > package. They can handle multi-dimensional data in a very efficient > > manner. > > They both can be found on sourceforge at > > > > http://sourceforge.net/projects/numpy/ > > -- Reggie From dyoo@hkn.eecs.berkeley.edu Tue Jul 1 16:31:09 2003 From: dyoo@hkn.eecs.berkeley.edu (Danny Yoo) Date: Tue Jul 1 15:31:09 2003 Subject: [Tutor] writing a search engine [quicky intro to vector search engines] In-Reply-To: <007601c33fec$d5d00f40$0500a8c0@nias> Message-ID: On Tue, 1 Jul 2003, Mathias Mamsch wrote: > > Any suggestions on where to start? I plan on writing one for a small > > site of mine. It will basically be "google-style"- simple and > > functional. Hi Mathias, If you're ambitious, you can try writing a vector search engine. *grin* The general idea is to turn each document in our collection into a vector in N-dimensional space. And N can be potentially really large: it's the number of unique words in our whole document collection. No wimpy 3d space here! For example, let's say we had the following documents: ### docs = ["This is a test of the emergency broadcast system", "This is neat, what kind of system is it?"] ### Given a set of documents, we can map each unique word to some kind of numeric identifier. Perhaps we can use some kind of dictionary, like this: ### d = { 'this' : 0, 'is' : 1, 'a' : 2, 'test' : 3, 'of' : 4, 'the' : 5, 'emergency' : 6, 'broadcast' : 7, 'system' : 8, 'neat' : 9, 'what' : 10, 'kind' : 11, 'it' : 12 } ### With this numbering, we can now transform our documents into vectors in 13-dimensional space. ### >>> def transformIntoVector(words): ... vector = [0] * 13 ... for w in words: ... vector[d[w]] = 1 ... return vector ... >>> doc_vectors = [transformIntoVector(doc.split()) for doc in docs] >>> doc_vectors[0] [1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 0, 0, 0, 0] >>> doc_vectors[1] [1, 1, 0, 0, 1, 0, 0, 0, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1] ### And now we store our library of document vectors somewhere handy on disk, or perhaps just keep it in memory. A query search, then, becomes a math problem: we take our query, transform it into a "query vector", ### >>> query = transformIntoVector(["emergency"]) ## I want all documents >>> ## that have "emergency". >>> query [0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 1, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0] ### And once we do this, then we can do a search by finding the vectors in our document collection that are most "similar" to our query vector. One cute way to do a simliarity check is to simply "multiply" a query vector, componentwise, against our document vectors. ### >>> def v_multiply(v1, v2): ... sum = 0 ... for x, y in zip(v1, v2): ... sum += x * y ... return sum ... >>> query [0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 1, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0] >>> doc_vectors [[1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 0, 0, 0, 0], [1, 1, 0, 0, 1, 0, 0, 0, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1]] >>> >>> v_multiply(query, doc_vectors[0]) 1 >>> v_multiply(query, doc_vectors[1]) 0 ### Shades of linear algebra! *grin* Since our query was the word "emergency", we matched against our first document, but got no hits in our second document. The explanation about is oversimplified, but I hope it makes some sense. *grin* I've taken some of the ideas of the code from, http://www.perl.com/lpt/a/2003/02/19/engine.html and written them as concept code in Python. My code is so rough at the moment that I really don't want to show it to anyone... *grin* But here's a small sample of what it looks like: ### class Engine: def search(self, query_text, threshold=0.5): query_vector = self.vectorizer.makeVector(query_text) result_vector = Numeric.zeros(self.matrix.shape[1], typecode='d') self.matrix.matvec_transp(query_vector, result_vector) return map(self.mapToDocId, Numeric.nonzero(Numeric.greater(result_vector, threshold))) ### self.matrix is a 'pysparse' matrix of all my document vectors, using some libraries from the PySparse project, http://www.python.org/pycon/papers/pysparse.html That being said, the code is UGLY. I promise I'll clean up the code when I get the chance... and I have to admit that my linear algebra is weak, so there are some parts of the code that might be suboptimal. I really want to learn more about linear algebra now, now that I see that there's something I can apply it with! (The real reason I'm working on this code is to do document clustering for a digital library, but I haven't yet found a fast way to do a matrix multiply on a 10000x60000 matrix without running out of memory. Perhaps I should learn about eigenvectors.) If you're interested, you can download a tarball of it here: http://hkn.eecs.berkeley.edu/~dyoo/python/vector_search.tar.gz But I am not linking it on my website until I add documentation and good comments into the code. *grin* Anyway, I hope this helps! From glingl@aon.at Tue Jul 1 16:50:02 2003 From: glingl@aon.at (Gregor Lingl) Date: Tue Jul 1 15:50:02 2003 Subject: [Tutor] finding factorials - hmm..., gcd References: <200307010915.h619FGc02559@ada.rg16.asn-wien.ac.at> <20030701185705.GA4607@linux.local> Message-ID: <3F01E629.5080805@aon.at> Payal Rathod schrieb: >On Tue, Jul 01, 2003 at 11:15:01AM +0100, glingl wrote: > > >>Your code is ok and gives the right result! >>e.g change: x, y = 25, 15 and you will get: >> >> > >Are you sure? I mean I don't get what a common factor means? Can you >tell? > > > >># (1) normally it's not considered good practice to pu >># print-statements in a function which aims at calculating >># a numerical rsult. - >> >> > > >Why??? I mean it is good for troubleshooting/debugging. > Yes! (But didn't I say that?) > > > >># (2) here you use an uncoditional return - so the body of >># the while-loop will be exited after the first run. >> >> > >I don't get this. You mean to say that once I type return euclid(a,b), >the while loop stops? > Not only the while-loop stops but the execution of the program leaves the (code of the) function and continues with finishing the statement, which contains the function call - in your case an assignment, which assigns the returned value to the variable result. >Why? > This is the purpose the return-statement is intended for >Also, if it does not get executed > I didn't say, that the body of the while loop doesn't get executed. I said that it *invariably* is executed *only_once*, which is not was a loop is normally meant for. >how am I >getting right answers as you say? > > Because it does the same as the code of the recursive correction (that is the second one) in my posting. > > >># Consequently it will never work as a loop and you could >># (a) use an if instead of while or >> >> > >Can you point a small example in *this* context using an if statement? > I think, I gave you two "small" examples exactly in *your_context*, namely two different possible modifications of your code - (a) the first one resulting in a euclid-function using a while loop (BUT NO RECURSION) and (b) the second one using recursion (BUT NO WHILE-LOOP) >># (b) drop the return and recursive call of euclid - >># recursion also accomplishes some sort of iteration >># and should/need/(must?) not be done in addition >># to the while-iteration >> >> > >I didn't get your meaning on this too, please. > > A recursive functions calls itself (again, several times, until the stop-condition is reached), so its code is executed repeatedly. >># (3) here you can leave out the three statements >># >># c = a >># a = b >># b = c % a >># >># if think carefully about which values are to be >># inserted as arguments in the recursive function >># call. >># What are the values of a and b respectively after >># execution of these 3 statements. (Remember: ist is >># perfectly right to insert arithmetic expressions like >># a / b, a+b etc as arguments - in which case they >># will be computed (evaluated( before the results are >># "bound" to the parameters.) >> >> I fear, my crude English is responsible, that you don't understand what I mean. Although just this maybe really hard to grasp. I wont't give an explanation, more gifted people exist on this list. Just try the following code and think about it: print "WHAT'S GOING ON?" x =4 y=10 z = 0 print "x =",x,"y =",y,"z =",z def look(a,b): print "x =",x,"y =",y,"z =",z,"a =",a,"b =",b a=2*a b=2*b c=a*b print "x =",x,"y =",y,"z =",z,"a =",a,"b =",b,"c =",c return c c = c*c # ;-) print "x =",x,"y =",y,"z =",z,"a =",a,"b =",b,"c =",c # or: :-( ? print "x =",x,"y =",y,"z =",z z = look(x,y) # this will execute 2 (!) print-statements # you won't be able to print a,b,c here print "x =",x,"y =",y,"z =",z Regards, Gregor >Ahh! Sorry again, I didn't get you. I don't understand much programmers >jargon. The whole paragraph looks greek to me. > > > >>P.S.: Maybe http://www.ibiblio.org/obp/thinkCSpy/ , >>especially chapters 4 to 6, >>contains material, which could be helpful for you. >> >> > >I had read them 2 days back. Maybe I should read them again. > > >Thanks a lot for the time and patience. >With warm regards, >-Payal > > > From patterner@rocketmail.com Tue Jul 1 17:38:02 2003 From: patterner@rocketmail.com (Chris Readle) Date: Tue Jul 1 16:38:02 2003 Subject: [Tutor] Hello and a (probably) stupid question Message-ID: <20030701203712.15927.qmail@web40612.mail.yahoo.com> Hi all, My name is Chris and I've just started learning Python. I'm working through the tutorial and I've come upon a difficult thing. One of the sample pieces of code works fine when typed interactively into the interpreter, but doesn't seem to work when I type it up in gvim. Here are the two bits of code: Bit that works: for n in range(2,10): for x in range(2, n): if n % x == 0: print n, 'equals', x, '*', n/x break else: # Loop fell through without finding factor print n, 'is a prime number' This bit returns: 2 is a prime number 3 is a prime number 4 equals 2 * 2 5 is a prime number 6 equals 2 * 3 7 is a prime number 8 equals 2 * 4 9 equals 3 * 3 Which the tutorial indicates is correct. Bit that doesn't work: # Testing to see if there is some funny starting value in the variables causing this to fail n, x = 0, 0 print n, x for n in range(2,10): for x in range(2, n): if n % x == 0: print n, 'equals', x, '*', n/x break else: # Loop fell through without finding a factor print n, 'is a prime number' This bit returns: 0 0 3 is a prime number 4 equals 2 * 2 5 is a prime number 5 is a prime number 5 is a prime number 6 equals 2 * 3 7 is a prime number 7 is a prime number 7 is a prime number 7 is a prime number 7 is a prime number 8 equals 2 * 4 9 is a prime number 9 equals 3 * 3 Which is a little messed. Now, the only thing I see that's different is that they're indented differently. However, both are indented consistently, which is my understanding of how that should work. To add some kick to the sauce, if I take the former example and paste it into a text file and run THAT through the interpreter, it works as well. Any thoughts from the python experts out there? chris __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! http://sbc.yahoo.com From dyoo@hkn.eecs.berkeley.edu Tue Jul 1 17:47:01 2003 From: dyoo@hkn.eecs.berkeley.edu (Danny Yoo) Date: Tue Jul 1 16:47:01 2003 Subject: [Tutor] finding factorials In-Reply-To: <20030701023901.GA1603@linux.local> Message-ID: On Tue, 1 Jul 2003, Payal Rathod wrote: > > I have posted my code below with some comments regarding issues I don't > get. Hi Payal, Sure, no problem. Let's take a look: > #!/usr/local/bin/python > > def euclid(a,b): > while b != 0: > c = a > a = b > b = c % a > print 'A = ', a > print 'B = ', b > return euclid(a,b) > # What will this return exactly? > else: > return a I'll skip your first question for a moment. We'll try to come back to it later. > x = 100 > y = 20 > > result = euclid(x, y) > > # Why do we define x and y here seperately? > # Can't we have result = euclid(100,20) > # This apparently is not working. Hmmm! You're right: that should work too! There was no need to do: ### x = 100 y = 20 ### but I thought that your original code had done the same, so I didn't want to change it. Can you show us what happens when you try doing euclid(100, 20)? It should work. > print x > print y > > # This always prints 100 and 20. I think it should print the present > # values of x and y which are not 100 and 20 always. Let's try another experiment for a moment. Take a look: ### >>> def square(x): ... return x * x ... >>> x = 3 >>> y = 4 >>> z = square(x) + square(y) ### At this point, what do you expect to see if we check up on the value of x, y, and z? (Your question touches on the idea of "local" scope. We can talk about it a little later when you feel more comfortable about functions.) What happens if we do something like this: ### >>> x = 42 >>> y = 42 >>> x = x + 1 ### Check with the interactive interpreter to see what the values of 'x' and 'y' are after we do those statement, just to make sure they're consistent with what you expect. The conceptual problem you might be running into is seeing '=' and thinking it means math equality. If so, be careful: it's not! If this is what you're running into when you see something like: x = 42 then you need to think of it more like x <---------------- 42 That is, imagine a big honking arrow that pushes a value into a name, squeezing out the old value in the process. The technical term for this is "assignment". Some folks are too dignified to use the big honking arrow, and will write it out on paper like this: x <- 42 And some computer languages do allow this kind of notation, which more clearly shows that what we're doing isn't symmetric at all: we're pushing stuff from the right hand side into the left hand side. Unfortunately, Python only uses the '=' notation to assign values to variable names, so you have to use '=', even though it might look visually disturbing. I don't know if this is the assignment issue is the thing that you're getting caught on, but if so, I hope the explanation helps a little. > print result > > # The result is given as 20 which I think is wrong. Is there anything > # wrong with my mathematical logic or my function? Math logic. *grin* The GCD of 100 and 20 is supposed to be 20. GCD(a,b) is the greatest number that will divide both 'a' and 'b' evenly, and 20 fits that criteria perfectly. Hope this helps! From jsoons@juilliard.edu Tue Jul 1 18:00:06 2003 From: jsoons@juilliard.edu (Jonathan Soons) Date: Tue Jul 1 17:00:06 2003 Subject: [Tutor] Shebang problem Message-ID: <33E101AC5AFF78419F466954A9685420BCF029@mailbox.juilliard.edu> For security reasons your profile prevents you executing a file in your = CWD. So try './foo.py' jonathan soons -Message: 3 From: Rick Thomas To: Tutor@python.org Subject: Re: [Tutor] Shebang problem Date: Tue, 1 Jul 2003 18:18:55 +0100 On Friday 27 June 2003 17:34, Abel Daniel wrote: > Rick Thomas wrote: > > Hi, > > > > I'm very new to programming and am plodding my way through Alan = Gauld's > > book 'Learn to Program Using Python'. At present I can't get my = programs > > to execute using the Shebang trick. > > > > #!/usr/bin/python > > > > My scripts ran fine when I was using SuSE 7.3 but I've recently = upgraded > > to 8.3 and wondered if this is somehow the problem. My scripts run = ok=20 > > if I type for example 'python foo.py' in a terminal. > > > > Any advice would be much appreciated. =20 From reggie@merfinllc.com Tue Jul 1 18:19:01 2003 From: reggie@merfinllc.com (Reggie Dugard) Date: Tue Jul 1 17:19:01 2003 Subject: [Tutor] Hello and a (probably) stupid question In-Reply-To: <20030701203712.15927.qmail@web40612.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20030701203712.15927.qmail@web40612.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1057094315.24474.33.camel@pika> Chris, Hi, glad to hear you're interested in Python! Your problem illustrates the importance of indentation in Python. In your interactive example, you'll notice that the else clause is indented to the same level as the for statement. This means that the statements in the else block will be executed if the for loop is allowed to run to completion (no break is encountered). In the example you entered in gvim, the else clause is indented to the level of the if statement so it will be executed whenever the if test fails during a pass through the loop - giving you incorrect results. I hope this explanation is somewhat clear. Good luck with the rest of the tutorial! On Tue, 2003-07-01 at 13:37, Chris Readle wrote: > Hi all, > > My name is Chris and I've just started learning Python. I'm working > through the tutorial and I've come upon a difficult thing. One of the > sample pieces of code works fine when typed interactively into the > interpreter, but doesn't seem to work when I type it up in gvim. Here are > the two bits of code: > > Bit that works: > for n in range(2,10): > for x in range(2, n): > if n % x == 0: > print n, 'equals', x, '*', n/x > break > else: > # Loop fell through without finding factor > print n, 'is a prime number' > > This bit returns: > 2 is a prime number > 3 is a prime number > 4 equals 2 * 2 > 5 is a prime number > 6 equals 2 * 3 > 7 is a prime number > 8 equals 2 * 4 > 9 equals 3 * 3 > > Which the tutorial indicates is correct. > > > Bit that doesn't work: > # Testing to see if there is some funny starting value in the variables > causing this to fail > n, x = 0, 0 > print n, x > > for n in range(2,10): > for x in range(2, n): > if n % x == 0: > print n, 'equals', x, '*', n/x > break > else: > # Loop fell through without finding a factor > print n, 'is a prime number' > > This bit returns: > 0 0 > 3 is a prime number > 4 equals 2 * 2 > 5 is a prime number > 5 is a prime number > 5 is a prime number > 6 equals 2 * 3 > 7 is a prime number > 7 is a prime number > 7 is a prime number > 7 is a prime number > 7 is a prime number > 8 equals 2 * 4 > 9 is a prime number > 9 equals 3 * 3 > > Which is a little messed. > > Now, the only thing I see that's different is that they're indented > differently. However, both are indented consistently, which is my > understanding of how that should work. To add some kick to the sauce, if > I take the former example and paste it into a text file and run THAT > through the interpreter, it works as well. > > Any thoughts from the python experts out there? > > chris > > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! > http://sbc.yahoo.com > > _______________________________________________ > Tutor maillist - Tutor@python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor -- Reggie From patterner@rocketmail.com Tue Jul 1 18:39:02 2003 From: patterner@rocketmail.com (Chris Readle) Date: Tue Jul 1 17:39:02 2003 Subject: [Tutor] Hello and a (probably) stupid question In-Reply-To: <1057094315.24474.33.camel@pika> Message-ID: <20030701213806.92884.qmail@web40608.mail.yahoo.com> Reggie, Aha, that sure enough did it. I was looking at the code, and comparing them to each other, but I never thought about comparing the whitespace....this is one of those things that will take me awhile to wrap my head around I think. :) Thanks for the quick response! chris --- Reggie Dugard wrote: > Chris, > > Hi, glad to hear you're interested in Python! Your problem illustrates > the importance of indentation in Python. In your interactive example, > you'll notice that the else clause is indented to the same level as the > for statement. This means that the statements in the else block will be > executed if the for loop is allowed to run to completion (no break is > encountered). > > In the example you entered in gvim, the else clause is indented to the > level of the if statement so it will be executed whenever the if test > fails during a pass through the loop - giving you incorrect results. > > I hope this explanation is somewhat clear. Good luck with the rest of > the tutorial! > > On Tue, 2003-07-01 at 13:37, Chris Readle wrote: > > Hi all, > > > > My name is Chris and I've just started learning Python. I'm working > > through the tutorial and I've come upon a difficult thing. One of the > > sample pieces of code works fine when typed interactively into the > > interpreter, but doesn't seem to work when I type it up in gvim. Here > are > > the two bits of code: > > > > Bit that works: > > for n in range(2,10): > > for x in range(2, n): > > if n % x == 0: > > print n, 'equals', x, '*', n/x > > break > > else: > > # Loop fell through without finding factor > > print n, 'is a prime number' > > > > This bit returns: > > 2 is a prime number > > 3 is a prime number > > 4 equals 2 * 2 > > 5 is a prime number > > 6 equals 2 * 3 > > 7 is a prime number > > 8 equals 2 * 4 > > 9 equals 3 * 3 > > > > Which the tutorial indicates is correct. > > > > > > Bit that doesn't work: > > # Testing to see if there is some funny starting value in the > variables > > causing this to fail > > n, x = 0, 0 > > print n, x > > > > for n in range(2,10): > > for x in range(2, n): > > if n % x == 0: > > print n, 'equals', x, '*', n/x > > break > > else: > > # Loop fell through without finding a factor > > print n, 'is a prime number' > > > > This bit returns: > > 0 0 > > 3 is a prime number > > 4 equals 2 * 2 > > 5 is a prime number > > 5 is a prime number > > 5 is a prime number > > 6 equals 2 * 3 > > 7 is a prime number > > 7 is a prime number > > 7 is a prime number > > 7 is a prime number > > 7 is a prime number > > 8 equals 2 * 4 > > 9 is a prime number > > 9 equals 3 * 3 > > > > Which is a little messed. > > > > Now, the only thing I see that's different is that they're indented > > differently. However, both are indented consistently, which is my > > understanding of how that should work. To add some kick to the sauce, > if > > I take the former example and paste it into a text file and run THAT > > through the interpreter, it works as well. > > > > Any thoughts from the python experts out there? > > > > chris > > > > > > __________________________________ > > Do you Yahoo!? > > SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! > > http://sbc.yahoo.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Tutor maillist - Tutor@python.org > > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor > -- > Reggie > > > > _______________________________________________ > Tutor maillist - Tutor@python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! http://sbc.yahoo.com From glingl@aon.at Tue Jul 1 18:49:01 2003 From: glingl@aon.at (Gregor Lingl) Date: Tue Jul 1 17:49:01 2003 Subject: [Tutor] finding factorials References: Message-ID: <3F020238.4040004@aon.at> Danny Yoo schrieb: > >The conceptual problem you might be running into is seeing '=' and >thinking it means math equality. If so, be careful: it's not! > >If this is what you're running into when you see something like: > > x = 42 > > >then you need to think of it more like > > x <---------------- 42 > > > Hi, Danny! I have a different model in my mind, when I see something like this. I think of a name attached to, or pointing to some object. In this case the object is the number 42. So I think more like x -----------------> 42 Now, when I see x, I know I have to think of the object behind x, the object which is named x. >>> a = 25001 >>> b = a >>> b is a 1 # (or, in Python 2.3: True) So this, for me, means: the object named a is the same as the one named b. This lets me better understand, what's going on, if I start to change objects, (which of course is not possible with a number). I prefer - from the beginning - to use a model , which I don't need to change when new things appear or have to be done. These are simply two different points of view, I think ... Best regards, Gregor >That is, imagine a big honking arrow that pushes a value into a name, > So my big honking arrow pushes a name onto an object (for instance a value) taking this name off another object, if it incidentally has been used for one earlier. Moreover I can easily think of attaching two (or more) names to an object; much easier than pushing an object (a value) into two (ore more) names >squeezing out the old value in the process. The technical term for this >is "assignment". Some folks are too dignified to use the big honking >arrow, and will write it out on paper like this: > > x <- 42 > > >And some computer languages do allow this kind of notation, which more >clearly shows that what we're doing isn't symmetric at all: we're pushing >stuff from the right hand side into the left hand side. Unfortunately, >Python only uses the '=' notation to assign values to variable names, so >you have to use '=', even though it might look visually disturbing. > >I don't know if this is the assignment issue is the thing that you're >getting caught on, but if so, I hope the explanation helps a little. > > > > > > >>print result >> >># The result is given as 20 which I think is wrong. Is there anything >># wrong with my mathematical logic or my function? >> >> > >Math logic. *grin* > >The GCD of 100 and 20 is supposed to be 20. GCD(a,b) is the greatest >number that will divide both 'a' and 'b' evenly, and 20 fits that criteria >perfectly. > > >Hope this helps! > > >_______________________________________________ >Tutor maillist - Tutor@python.org >http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor > > > > From project5@redrival.net Tue Jul 1 21:29:01 2003 From: project5@redrival.net (Andrei) Date: Tue Jul 1 20:29:01 2003 Subject: [Tutor] Re: compiling python apps In-Reply-To: <3F013C6F.20202@xtra.co.nz> References: <3F013C6F.20202@xtra.co.nz> Message-ID: Michael Honeyfield wrote: > I have set myself the task of learning python. I learn best in the > deep end (sometimes) and thought I would give pysol a hack and see what > I can do with it. Perhaps port the UI to the QT python UI. That's one way of doing it :). > Anyways, I am confussed on the two pysol packages that one can download. > One of them is a "ready to run" package (3301Kb) and the other is the > source (151Kb). I figured the source package is there for customizing > (which is what I wish to do) but I dont know how to "compile" it like > the "ready to run" package is. Anyone following this list understand me > or am I making a public fool of myself? :) If a am not making much sense > I will try to clarifiy further. I've never looked specifically at PySol, but Python doesn't get "compiled" in the classic sense of the word. The ready to run package most likely contains a Python interpreter and whatever other third party libraries PySol employs, but *also* the source code. > But to sum it up, How do I get my modified pysol source compile like the > ready to run package? I have emailed the maintainer, but not had any > reply (I suspect he is busy in the next cool release of pysol :) ) Install all required third-party packages as well as Python on your machine en just start the application using "python appname.py" (where appname is the name of the main python file). Andrei ===== Mail address in header catches spam. Real contact info (decode with rot13): cebwrpg5@bcrenznvy.pbz. Fcnz-serr! Cyrnfr qb abg hfr va choyvp cbfgf. V ernq gur yvfg, fb gurer'f ab arrq gb PP. From project5@redrival.net Tue Jul 1 21:36:01 2003 From: project5@redrival.net (Andrei) Date: Tue Jul 1 20:36:01 2003 Subject: [Tutor] Re: Hello and a (probably) stupid question In-Reply-To: <20030701213806.92884.qmail@web40608.mail.yahoo.com> References: <1057094315.24474.33.camel@pika> <20030701213806.92884.qmail@web40608.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Chris Readle wrote: > Aha, that sure enough did it. I was looking at the code, and comparing > them to each other, but I never thought about comparing the > whitespace....this is one of those things that will take me awhile to wrap > my head around I think. :) Thanks for the quick response! It's really not that hard :). If it looks like a block, it IS a block. Having a good editor will help you a lot with whitespace (auto-indenting and the likes), so you won't have to bother at all. Also make sure your editor converts Tabs to 4 spaces when working on Python code, otherwise you might mix real tabs and spaces so things might *seem* to have the same indentation, but in reality they're different. I suppose Gvim should be able to do this (I use Scite myself). Andrei ===== Mail address in header catches spam. Real contact info (decode with rot13): cebwrpg5@bcrenznvy.pbz. Fcnz-serr! Cyrnfr qb abg hfr va choyvp cbfgf. V ernq gur yvfg, fb gurer'f ab arrq gb PP. From camartin@snet.net Tue Jul 1 22:45:02 2003 From: camartin@snet.net (Cliff Martin) Date: Tue Jul 1 21:45:02 2003 Subject: [Tutor] Re: Readlines code. Message-ID: <3F023956.9030301@snet.net> --------------030006060102080807010402 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Rick, Thanks for the help. I understand what you did and this wraps up the file for printing but once the stuff is printed it no longer exists in the assignment words. I want to manipulate and calculate (once I've converted the strings into numbers) and I need this split and extracted \n file to exist. I can't use a standard function because once the return statement is executed the data is written to file. What am I still not understanding. Cliff Martin On Mon, Jun 30, 2003 at 09:43:37PM -0400, Cliff Martin wrote: >> Hi, >> >> I'm trying to read in an ASCII file of a fairly large set of data with >> data separated by spaces and each line ending with a linefeed. If I use >> readlines() I get all the data but each line still has a \n tacked on. >> If I use: >> >> f=open("c:/transfer/filename") >> for line in f.readlines(): >> words=line.rstrip().split() >> >> I get only the last line of the file in words. Could someone explain >> why this is happening? There is something about the use of Python here >> that I'm not understanding. Thanks for any help. > > I suspect you're only *doing* something to the last line. Consider the following two programs: f = open("c:/transfer/filename") for line in f.readlines(): words=line.rstrip().split() print words f = open("c:/transfer/filename") for line in f.readlines(): words=line.rstrip().split() print words Both process all the lines in the file but the first only prints out the last line while the second prints out all the lines. Indentation is *critical* in python. -- "Damn all expurgated books; the dirtiest book of all is the expurgated book." -- Walt Whitman Rick Pasotto rick@niof.net http://www.niof.net --------------030006060102080807010402 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Rick,

Thanks for the help. I understand what you did and this wraps up the file for printing but once the stuff is printed it no longer exists in the assignment words.  I want to manipulate and calculate (once I've converted the strings into numbers) and I need this split and extracted \n file to exist. I can't use a standard function because once the return statement is executed the data is written to file. What am I still not understanding.

Cliff Martin

On Mon, Jun 30, 2003 at 09:43:37PM -0400, Cliff Martin wrote:

> Hi,
> 
> I'm trying to read in an ASCII file of a fairly large set of data with 
> data separated by spaces and each line ending with a linefeed.  If I use 
> readlines() I get all the data but each line still has a \n tacked on. 
> If I use:
> 
> f=open("c:/transfer/filename")
> for line in f.readlines():
>        words=line.rstrip().split()
> 
> I get only the last line of the file in words.  Could someone explain 
> why this is happening?  There is something about the use of Python here 
> that I'm not understanding.  Thanks for any help.
  

I suspect you're only *doing* something to the last line.

Consider the following two programs:

f = open("c:/transfer/filename")
for line in f.readlines():
	words=line.rstrip().split()
print words

f = open("c:/transfer/filename")
for line in f.readlines():
	words=line.rstrip().split()
	print words

Both process all the lines in the file but the first only prints out the
last line while the second prints out all the lines.

Indentation is *critical* in python.


-- 
"Damn all expurgated books; the dirtiest book of all is the expurgated book."
		-- Walt Whitman
    Rick Pasotto    rick@niof.net    http://www.niof.net

--------------030006060102080807010402-- From dman@dman13.dyndns.org Tue Jul 1 23:08:02 2003 From: dman@dman13.dyndns.org (Derrick 'dman' Hudson) Date: Tue Jul 1 22:08:02 2003 Subject: [Tutor] Re: Readlines code. In-Reply-To: <3F023956.9030301@snet.net> References: <20030701015523.GB5712@niof.net> <3F023956.9030301@snet.net> Message-ID: <20030702020737.GA18206@dman13.dyndns.org> --fdj2RfSjLxBAspz7 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Tue, Jul 01, 2003 at 09:45:58PM -0400, Cliff Martin wrote: | Rick, |=20 | Thanks for the help. I understand what you did and this wraps up the=20 | file for printing but once the stuff is printed it no longer exists in=20 | the assignment words. Think about the scope of your variable 'words', when it exists and when it is changed. | f=3Dopen("c:/transfer/filename") | for line in f.readlines(): | words=3Dline.rstrip().split() The variable is assigned to inside the loop. That means that each time through the loop it refers to a different object. Once the loop terminates, the variable still exists as it did in the last iteration of the loop. There are a few different ways of solving your problem, depending on what you want to do and what your constraints are. One possibility is this : words =3D [s.rstrip().split() for s in f.readlines()] With this, the variable 'words' will be a list with each element representing a line in the file. Each element of that list is a list containing the separate strings yielded by split(). Note that this stores the entire file in memory at once. If the file is large then this isn't suitable. (note that your code, using readlines(), has the same problem anyways) Another option is to process each line, one at a time, in the loop. This way you never have the entire file in memory at once, you only have the line currently being processed. (this can lead to DoS problems too if the file has excessively long lines) f=3Dopen("c:/transfer/filename") for line in f.xreadlines(): # note: use xreadlines() instead words=3Dline.rstrip().split() ... do something with 'words' here ... =2E.. here we're all done, we don't have the data in memory, ... =2E.. but we don't need it because we already processed all of it ... HTH, -D --=20 Microsoft is to operating systems & security .... .... what McDonald's is to gourmet coo= king =20 http://dman13.dyndns.org/~dman/ --fdj2RfSjLxBAspz7 Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iEYEARECAAYFAj8CPmkACgkQiB6vp1xAVUBGigCeJ5CzMZVXSSK2RugnsvLO9obF G/0An1xwJCAnVKrQAib46elNp/tvuH+X =C+RI -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --fdj2RfSjLxBAspz7-- From rick@niof.net Tue Jul 1 23:17:01 2003 From: rick@niof.net (Rick Pasotto) Date: Tue Jul 1 22:17:01 2003 Subject: [Tutor] Re: Readlines code. In-Reply-To: <3F023956.9030301@snet.net> References: <3F023956.9030301@snet.net> Message-ID: <20030702021716.GF5712@niof.net> On Tue, Jul 01, 2003 at 09:45:58PM -0400, Cliff Martin wrote: > Rick, > > Thanks for the help. I understand what you did and this wraps up the > file for printing but once the stuff is printed it no longer exists in > the assignment words. I want to manipulate and calculate (once I've > converted the strings into numbers) and I need this split and extracted > \n file to exist. I can't use a standard function because once the > return statement is executed the data is written to file. What am I > still not understanding. Are you sure you can't do everything you need to do to each line as you encounter it? Why do you need to process the entire set of lines a second time? If you really need to do multiple passes through the file then perhaps the best thing would be: myfile = file("c:/transfer/filename") # 'file' is the new 'open' Now 'myfile' is a list of all the lines in the disk file which you can go through as many times as you want. for i in range(len(myfile)): myfile[i] = myfile[i].strip().split() for i in range(len(myfile)): # do something else to every line I really suspect that if you re-think what you're doing you'll find that you can do everything in one pass. [And please don't put your reply at the top of the message. Replies logically come *after* what they are replying to, not before.] > On Mon, Jun 30, 2003 at 09:43:37PM -0400, Cliff Martin wrote: > > >>Hi, > >> > >>I'm trying to read in an ASCII file of a fairly large set of data with > >>data separated by spaces and each line ending with a linefeed. If I use > >>readlines() I get all the data but each line still has a \n tacked on. > >>If I use: > >> > >>f=open("c:/transfer/filename") > >>for line in f.readlines(): > >> words=line.rstrip().split() > >> > >>I get only the last line of the file in words. Could someone explain > >>why this is happening? There is something about the use of Python here > >>that I'm not understanding. Thanks for any help. > > I suspect you're only *doing* something to the last line. > > Consider the following two programs: > > f = open("c:/transfer/filename") > for line in f.readlines(): > words=line.rstrip().split() > print words > > f = open("c:/transfer/filename") > for line in f.readlines(): > words=line.rstrip().split() > print words > > Both process all the lines in the file but the first only prints out the > last line while the second prints out all the lines. > > Indentation is *critical* in python. -- "It will be of little avail to the people that the laws are made by men of their own choice, if the laws be so voluminous that they cannot be read, or so incoherent that they cannot be understood; if they be repealed or revised before they are promulged, or undergo such incessant changes that no man who knows what the law is to-day can guess what it will be tomorrow. Law is defined to be a rule of action; but how can that be a rule, which is little known and less fixed?" -- James Madison, Federalist #62 (27-Feb-1788) Rick Pasotto rick@niof.net http://www.niof.net From rick@niof.net Tue Jul 1 23:20:02 2003 From: rick@niof.net (Rick Pasotto) Date: Tue Jul 1 22:20:02 2003 Subject: [Tutor] Re: Readlines code. In-Reply-To: <20030702020737.GA18206@dman13.dyndns.org> References: <20030701015523.GB5712@niof.net> <3F023956.9030301@snet.net> <20030702020737.GA18206@dman13.dyndns.org> Message-ID: <20030702022008.GG5712@niof.net> On Tue, Jul 01, 2003 at 10:07:37PM -0400, Derrick 'dman' Hudson wrote: > > There are a few different ways of solving your problem, depending on > what you want to do and what your constraints are. One possibility is > this : > > words = [s.rstrip().split() for s in f.readlines()] Much better than what I suggested (though the result is the same). I need to get used to list comprehensions. -- "Life's too short for chess." -- H. J. Byron Rick Pasotto rick@niof.net http://www.niof.net From payal-python@staticky.com Wed Jul 2 00:18:03 2003 From: payal-python@staticky.com (Payal Rathod) Date: Tue Jul 1 23:18:03 2003 Subject: [Tutor] program flow Message-ID: <20030702031014.GB1637@linux.local> Hi, Gregor example on "magic" funtions has set me thinking. I am wondering how a program flow really is now. Consider a small example. #!/usr/bin/python x = 1 y = 2 def sum1(a,b): ..... ..... ..... return a return b print "Magic Functins! Hello World!" z = sum1(x,y) How does python flow works. It works out 1st 3 lines and then when it comes to def sum1(a,b): what happens or it jumps that part and goes directly to "Magic Functins! Hello World!" and then to z = sum1(x,y) from where it jumps to def sum1(a,b): What is the flow here? With warm regards, -Payal -- "Visit GNU/Linux Success Stories" http://payal.staticky.com Guest-Book Section Updated. From payal-python@staticky.com Wed Jul 2 00:18:09 2003 From: payal-python@staticky.com (Payal Rathod) Date: Tue Jul 1 23:18:09 2003 Subject: [Tutor] finding factorials - hmm..., gcd In-Reply-To: <3F01E629.5080805@aon.at> References: <200307010915.h619FGc02559@ada.rg16.asn-wien.ac.at> <20030701185705.GA4607@linux.local> <3F01E629.5080805@aon.at> Message-ID: <20030702030305.GA1637@linux.local> On Tue, Jul 01, 2003 at 09:51:05PM +0200, Gregor Lingl wrote: Thanks for the mails all of you and thanks for the "magic" example. Please clear my doubt below. Commented example below. Print statements are now numbered. print "WHAT'S GOING ON?" x =4 y=10 z = 0 print "x =",x,"y =",y,"z =",z # -------> (1) def look(a,b): print "x =",x,"y =",y,"z =",z,"a =",a,"b =",b # --------> (2) a=2*a b=2*b c=a*b print "x =",x,"y =",y,"z =",z,"a =",a,"b =",b,"c =",c # ------> (3) return c c = c*c # ;-) print "x =",x,"y =",y,"z =",z,"a =",a,"b =",b,"c =",c # -----> (4) print "x =",x,"y =",y,"z =",z # ------------> (5) z = look(x,y) # this will execute 2 (!) print-statements # you won't be able to print a,b,c here print "x =",x,"y =",y,"z =",z # ---------> (6) The output is, WHAT'S GOING ON? x = 4 y = 10 z = 0 # This comes from print statement (1) x = 4 y = 10 z = 0 # This comes from print statement (5) x = 4 y = 10 z = 0 a = 4 b = 10 # Where the world this comes from? a and b are never defined anywhere, # nor are they assigned values of x and y. Where did python get the # idea that a = 4 and b = 10? x = 4 y = 10 z = 0 a = 8 b = 20 c = 160 x = 4 y = 10 z = 160 # Once the above question is answered I think this will have the same # logic. Thanks a lot for this "magic" example. With warm regards, -Payal -- "Visit GNU/Linux Success Stories" http://payal.staticky.com Guest-Book Section Updated. From p.hartley@spitech.com Wed Jul 2 00:48:02 2003 From: p.hartley@spitech.com (Paul Hartley) Date: Tue Jul 1 23:48:02 2003 Subject: [Tutor] Linux versions Message-ID: <004401c3404c$9ccd53a0$ebe710ac@paul> This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0041_01C3408F.AAA5CF00 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I currently work almost exclusively with Windows 98 and XP. But I am = becoming increasingly annoyed at the bully tactics of Microsoft so I = would like to switch to Linux. I have made a couple of half-hearted = atempts in the past but never stuck with it. This time I am serious!! So I need a recommendation. I recently saw questions where some python = packages were being downloaded and would not work because the Linux was = Mandrake and not Red Hat. I must say all the marketing hype of Mandrake = had me looking at that version of Linux - as most of my time is spent = with email, wordprocessing and spreadsheets - not programming. I am not = on OS techie and I guess I would want to dual boot if only so I could = play Railroad Tycoon sometimes. Any suggestions or experiences that Windows users have had switching to = Linux would be most appretiated and what are the complications for using = Python on the different systems. Kind regards Paul ------=_NextPart_000_0041_01C3408F.AAA5CF00 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I currently work almost exclusively = with Windows 98=20 and XP. But I am becoming increasingly annoyed at the bully tactics of = Microsoft=20 so I would like to switch to Linux. I have made a couple of half-hearted = atempts=20 in the past but never stuck with it. This time I am = serious!!
 
So I need a recommendation. I recently = saw=20 questions where some python packages were being downloaded and would not = work=20 because the Linux was Mandrake and not Red Hat. I must say all the = marketing=20 hype of Mandrake had me looking at that version of Linux - as most of my = time is=20 spent with email, wordprocessing and spreadsheets - not programming. I = am not on=20 OS techie and I guess I would want to dual boot if only so I could play = Railroad=20 Tycoon sometimes.
 
Any suggestions or experiences that = Windows users=20 have had switching to Linux would be most appretiated and what are the=20 complications for using Python on the different systems.
 
Kind regards
 
Paul
------=_NextPart_000_0041_01C3408F.AAA5CF00-- From tutor@python.org Wed Jul 2 01:48:02 2003 From: tutor@python.org (/dev/rob0) Date: Wed Jul 2 00:48:02 2003 Subject: [Tutor] Linux versions In-Reply-To: <004401c3404c$9ccd53a0$ebe710ac@paul> References: <004401c3404c$9ccd53a0$ebe710ac@paul> Message-ID: <20030702044752.GJ1814@obrien.1984.lan> On Wed, Jul 02, 2003 at 11:47:08AM +0800, Paul Hartley wrote: > I currently work almost exclusively with Windows 98 and XP. But I am becoming increasingly annoyed at the bully tactics of Microsoft so I would like to switch to Linux. I have made a couple of half-hearted atempts in the past but never stuck with it. This time I am serious!! > So I need a recommendation. I recently saw questions where some python > packages were being downloaded and would not work because the Linux > was Mandrake and not Red Hat. Whilst GNU/Linux is GNU/Linux is GNU/Linux, subtle differences in the versions of crucial components such as the C libraries and compiler can make binaries built on/for one distro (and version) incompatible with another. Perhaps that's what you saw. GNU/Linux truly is one OS in that anything which will run on one distro can be built to run on any other. (((Free|Open|Net)BSD)|'Mac OS X') is similarly one underlying OS (but there are some incompatibilities with Linux and differing hardware support.) > I am not on OS techie and I guess I would want to dual boot if only Multi-booting is not a problem with any GNU/Linux. You can even boot from a floppy or CD (often necessary when dealing with DOS-based Windows which may overwrite your master boot record without permission.) > Any suggestions or experiences that Windows users have had switching > to Linux would be most appretiated I made the complete switch in Dec. 1999 because my Windows machine (its hard drive) failed. The transition didn't seem that difficult for me, but then, I *am* an OS techie. :) I use Slackware exclusively, both in server deployments and for my own workstation. I would recommend it to anyone who is seeking an in-depth understanding of GNU/Linux, but since you say you're not an OS techie, it may not be for you. Slackware is built by and for hard-core geeks (and professional sysadmins). SuSE, Red Hat and Mandrake have all set their sights on your part of the "market": refugees from Windows. I think I'd recommend them in that order, too, but don't put a lot of faith in that. It's possible that you would find any of these to be as easy or easier to install and use than Windows.[1] Debian isn't a "market", it is a community. It might be worth a look. Most notable about Debian is their extreme devotion to Free Software principles[2] and probably the most sophisticated package management tools. It's another one by-and-for geeks, but I've known some lesser- to-non-geeks who find it quite to their liking. > and what are the complications for using Python on the different > systems. OOTC! :) Good. I'm not aware of any problems with Python. Some distros may not install it by default, and they may not include all parts of it as you might get from the Python source. HTH, although I suppose some URL's would help too ... I don't know of any, but I know you're one of millions wanting to make the change, so Google about and you will undoubtedly find some advice. Rob - /dev/rob0 [1] One impressive benefit, as I recently discovered by setting up a Windows system, is that far more comes with your GNU/Linux CD than with Windows. Even a relatively minimal distro like Slackware gives you a wide selection of user software. [2] And a fanatical devotion to the Pope![3] [3] I'll bet you didn't expect the Spanish Inquisition.[4] [4] NOBODY expects the Spanish Inquisition! From glingl@mail.rg16.asn-wien.ac.at Wed Jul 2 04:15:03 2003 From: glingl@mail.rg16.asn-wien.ac.at (glingl) Date: Wed Jul 2 03:15:03 2003 Subject: [Tutor] finding factorials - hmm..., gcd Message-ID: <200307020714.h627E2c05951@ada.rg16.asn-wien.ac.at> --- Payal Rathod schrieb: .. > Commented example below. Print statements are now numbered. > > print "WHAT'S GOING ON?" > x =4 > y=10 > z = 0 > print "x =",x,"y =",y,"z =",z # -------> (1) > > def look(a,b): > print "x =",x,"y =",y,"z =",z,"a =",a,"b =",b # --------> (2) > a=2*a > b=2*b > c=a*b > print "x =",x,"y =",y,"z =",z,"a =",a,"b =",b,"c =",c # ------> (3) > return c > c = c*c # ;-) > print "x =",x,"y =",y,"z =",z,"a =",a,"b =",b,"c =",c # -----> (4) > > print "x =",x,"y =",y,"z =",z # ------------> (5) > z = look(x,y) # this will execute 2 (!) print-statements > # you won't be able to print a,b,c here > print "x =",x,"y =",y,"z =",z # ---------> (6) > > > The output is, > > WHAT'S GOING ON? > x = 4 y = 10 z = 0 # This comes from print statement (1) right! > x = 4 y = 10 z = 0 # This comes from print statement (5) right! > x = 4 y = 10 z = 0 a = 4 b = 10 > # Where the world this comes from? from print statement (2), which gets executed whenever the function look is called > # a and b are never defined anywhere, the are! in the first line of the definition of look: def look(a,b) a and b get created, every time you call look - an destroyed every time the execution of look has ceased. > # nor are they assigned values of x and y. They are! When look(x,y) is called, a gets the value of x and b gets the value of y. (Think of: a and b are substituted by x and y). You can substitute other values, e.g. by calling look(1001,-1) > # Where did python get the > # idea that a = 4 and b = 10? When look(x,y) is called, a gets the value of x and b gets the value of y. (Think of: a and b are substituted by x and y). You can substitute other values, e.g. by calling look(1001,-1) > x = 4 y = 10 z = 0 a = 8 b = 20 c = 160 While the values of a and b change during the execution of look, the variables x and y retain their old values. > x = 4 y = 10 z = 160 > # Once the above question is answered I think this will have the same > # logic. I've tried my best Regards, Gregor > > Thanks a lot for this "magic" example. > With warm regards, > -Payal > > -- > "Visit GNU/Linux Success Stories" > http://payal.staticky.com > Guest-Book Section Updated. > > _______________________________________________ > Tutor maillist - Tutor@python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor > From yduppen@xs4all.nl Wed Jul 2 04:59:08 2003 From: yduppen@xs4all.nl (Yigal Duppen) Date: Wed Jul 2 03:59:08 2003 Subject: [Tutor] Linux versions In-Reply-To: <20030702044752.GJ1814@obrien.1984.lan> References: <004401c3404c$9ccd53a0$ebe710ac@paul> <20030702044752.GJ1814@obrien.1984.lan> Message-ID: <200307020958.01491.yduppen@xs4all.nl> > > and what are the complications for using Python on the different > > systems. > > OOTC! :) Good. I'm not aware of any problems with Python. I do! :-) There is one important caveat with most linux distros -- they allow (and often have) multiple versions of python to be installed simultaneously. So you can have 'python1.5', 'python2.1' and 'python2.2' on your system at the same time. Usually, there is also a 'python' executable which points to one of these versions. But here is the catch -- not on all systems does 'python' point to the latest version! For example, on my Debian system, 'python' points to 'python1.5'. I know RedHat systems suffer (or suffered?) from the same problem. This means that if your program 'myprogram.py' uses any newish features, and you say python myprogram.py you will get annoying, and at first incomprehensible, errors. So on my system I should say python2.2 myprogram.py Not a major issue, but you have to be aware of it. If you don't want any of this hassle, just use SuSE. It's the most userfriendly distro I've seen so far. And it only contains the latest Python version. YDD From mhoneyfield@xtra.co.nz Wed Jul 2 06:37:02 2003 From: mhoneyfield@xtra.co.nz (Michael Honeyfield) Date: Wed Jul 2 05:37:02 2003 Subject: [Tutor] Re: compiling python apps In-Reply-To: References: <3F013C6F.20202@xtra.co.nz> Message-ID: <3F02A77E.2040801@xtra.co.nz> > I've never looked specifically at PySol, but Python doesn't get > "compiled" in the classic sense of the word. The ready to run package > most likely contains a Python interpreter and whatever other third party > libraries PySol employs, but *also* the source code. hmm... the ready to run contains 3 1MB pysol_xx.pyc files. The xx being some numbers. I understand that its not "compiel" but more a byte code. What I dont get is that when I run the src, which is only .py's, a .pyc is made for each .py, so how come pysol only contains 3 of these .pyc's and they are much larger than the .pyc's I get when I run the scripts. Is there some way to "group" scripts together into a single .pyc and then using python to run the .pyc? >> But to sum it up, How do I get my modified pysol source compile like >> the ready to run package? I have emailed the maintainer, but not had >> any reply (I suspect he is busy in the next cool release of pysol :) ) > > > Install all required third-party packages as well as Python on your > machine en just start the application using "python appname.py" (where > appname is the name of the main python file). its only python 2.2.x and tcl :) Cheers Mike -- Ok, there's no way to do this gracefully, so I won't even try. I'm going to just hunker down for some really impressive extended flaming, and my asbestos underwear is firmly in place, and extremely uncomfortable. -- Linus Trovalds From tbstep@tampabay.rr.com Wed Jul 2 07:57:03 2003 From: tbstep@tampabay.rr.com (Todd Stephens) Date: Wed Jul 2 06:57:03 2003 Subject: OT: Re: [Tutor] Linux versions In-Reply-To: <20030702044752.GJ1814@obrien.1984.lan> References: <004401c3404c$9ccd53a0$ebe710ac@paul> <20030702044752.GJ1814@obrien.1984.lan> Message-ID: <200307020654.22247.tbstep@tampabay.rr.com> On Wednesday 02 July 2003 12:47 am, /dev/rob0 wrote: > I use Slackware exclusively, both in server deployments and for my own > workstation. I would recommend it to anyone who is seeking an in-depth > understanding of GNU/Linux, but since you say you're not an OS techie, > it may not be for you. Slackware is built by and for hard-core geeks > (and professional sysadmins). I know that is the general perception, but I would have to disagree. I have tried Mandrake, SuSE, Red Hat and Slackware (in that order). I found Slackware to be the most user-friendly of all of them. Oh, I used FreeBSD in between RH and Slack and I still use it from time to time. I put FBSD up there with Slack in terms of ease of use as well. Though, I suppose SuSE and company are easier if you get a 100% clean install (which I have never had on any distro) and you don't plan on doing any kind of customizing. So, maybe I do agree just a bit. -- Todd Stephens From op73418@mail.telepac.pt Wed Jul 2 08:32:01 2003 From: op73418@mail.telepac.pt (Rodrigues) Date: Wed Jul 2 07:32:01 2003 Subject: [Tutor] program flow In-Reply-To: <20030702031014.GB1637@linux.local> Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: tutor-admin@python.org > [mailto:tutor-admin@python.org]On Behalf Of > Payal Rathod > Sent: quarta-feira, 2 de Julho de 2003 4:10 > To: Python Tutor ML > Subject: [Tutor] program flow > > > Hi, > Gregor example on "magic" funtions has set me thinking. I > am wondering > how a program flow really is now. Consider a small example. > > #!/usr/bin/python > x = 1 > y = 2 > > def sum1(a,b): > ..... > ..... > ..... > return a > return b > Note that return b will never be executed since the function returns before it gets there! Maybe you want: return a, b > print "Magic Functins! Hello World!" > > > z = sum1(x,y) > > > How does python flow works. It works out 1st 3 lines and > then when it > comes to def sum1(a,b): what happens or it jumps that part and goes > directly to "Magic Functins! Hello World!" and then to z = sum1(x,y) > from where it jumps to def sum1(a,b): > > What is the flow here? > the def statement is a statement of sorts, but it *is* executed, *not* jumped over. What happens is that the function body is "compiled" into a function object and this object is bounded to the name sum1. Then Python continues to the other statements. The same thing for a class statement. The following gives some info on function objects: >>> def sum1(a, b): ... return a ... >>> print sum1 >>> help(sum1) Help on function sum1 in module __main__: sum1(a, b) >>> for elem in dir(sum1): ... print elem ... __call__ __class__ __delattr__ __dict__ __doc__ __get__ __getattribute__ __hash__ __init__ __name__ __new__ __reduce__ __repr__ __setattr__ __str__ > With warm regards, > -Payal > With my best regards, G. Rodrigues From thomi@thomi.imail.net.nz Wed Jul 2 08:40:02 2003 From: thomi@thomi.imail.net.nz (Thomas CLive Richards) Date: Wed Jul 2 07:40:02 2003 Subject: [Tutor] checking for class version info. Message-ID: <20030702233925.6cb79b60.thomi@thomi.imail.net.nz> Hey, I have the following problem: I have developed a small program which saves (using the pickle module) some classes, and loads them at a later date. The trouble is, the program is under active development, and the contents of the classes are changing constantly. What i would like to do, is invent some way so that as the classes are loaded, they automatically detect if they are the save "version" as the current class in the program source file. If they are not, they somehow "re-initialise" themselves in the new class. does that make sense? the first way i thought i would do it is generate some sort of unique identifier for the source code file each class is in (the code is such that every class is in a separate file - this cannot be changed); the size of the file in bytes would probably be enough for this (or perhaps the last modification time?). However, that would mean that simple adding a comment to the class would cause the class to reload, and that wouldn't be too good. then i thought about having a variable in each class called "version", or something similar, so that when a developer updates a class significantly, he can change the version number, and the classes would reload themselves, if their version number didn't match that in the class source code file. The trouble with that is that developers are lazy, and would probably forget. Also, i have no idea how to go about doing this "reloading". It may be that the objects will have to be re-created every time the class changes, or that I'll have to make a conversion script, but there you go, any ideas? where should i go from here? thanks, -- Thomi Richards, thomi@thomi.imail.net.nz From payal-python@staticky.com Wed Jul 2 08:54:02 2003 From: payal-python@staticky.com (Payal Rathod) Date: Wed Jul 2 07:54:02 2003 Subject: [Tutor] finding factorials - hmm..., gcd In-Reply-To: <200307020714.h627E2c05951@ada.rg16.asn-wien.ac.at> References: <200307020714.h627E2c05951@ada.rg16.asn-wien.ac.at> Message-ID: <20030702115152.GC2509@linux.local> Hi, Thanks for the mail and the explanation. It was splendid. Along with another offlist explanation by a member I got it fitted in quite ok. I have written my own recursive function (a function calling itself). Just have a look please. Before you shudder with the thought of answering it, I say just look and if you feel like it comment. It is an infinite function. It goes on repetatively. #!/usr/bin/python def rec_fun(): print a rec_fun() a = 10 rec_fun() BTW OT, if I want to redirect the errors an output to a file why does this not work? $ python rec1.py 2>&1 > temp Is it writting on some different file handle? Thanks a lot and bye -Payal -- "Visit GNU/Linux Success Stories" http://payal.staticky.com Guest-Book Section Updated. From magnus@thinkware.se Wed Jul 2 10:18:07 2003 From: magnus@thinkware.se (Magnus =?iso-8859-1?Q?Lyck=E5?=) Date: Wed Jul 2 09:18:07 2003 Subject: [Tutor] Linux versions In-Reply-To: <200307020958.01491.yduppen@xs4all.nl> References: <20030702044752.GJ1814@obrien.1984.lan> <004401c3404c$9ccd53a0$ebe710ac@paul> <20030702044752.GJ1814@obrien.1984.lan> Message-ID: <5.2.1.1.0.20030702151758.01f949b8@www.thinkware.se> At 09:58 2003-07-02 +0200, Yigal Duppen wrote: >But here is the catch -- not on all systems does 'python' point to the >latest version! For example, on my Debian system, 'python' points to >'python1.5'. I know RedHat systems suffer (or suffered?) from the same >problem. Redhat no longer relies on Python 1.5.2. As long as you use Red Hat 8.x, you should have no problem with this. Don't know much about Debian, but I do think that both Mandrake, RedHat and SuSE are easier to get started with than Debian if you are a newbie. Debian suppsedly runs very well once it's installed, but to get there takes a while. I haven't used Slackware since version 2.3... I think you will be fine with Mandrake. -- Magnus Lycka (It's really Lyckå), magnus@thinkware.se Thinkware AB, Sweden, www.thinkware.se I code Python ~ The Agile Programming Language From ATrautman@perryjudds.com Wed Jul 2 11:30:26 2003 From: ATrautman@perryjudds.com (Alan Trautman) Date: Wed Jul 2 10:30:26 2003 Subject: [Tutor] Linux versions Message-ID: <06738462136C054B8F8872D69DA140DB010827@corp-exch-1.pjinet.com> My recent experience is that Mandrake is the best for new LINUX users. It can install on a base system in right around 20 keystrokes. I recently installed it on a devil system (SCSI, multi-NIC, odd ball video) and it took first try and so far 1 weeks limited usage it seems fine. My last experience with Redhat 8.1 was that the install was only slightly harder to install but was harder to configure as it still needed a combination of X based and console based adjustments to work. Mandrakes HardDrake (X-configure) is really slick. As far as Python Mandrake will install Python 2.2 and TCL 8.? by default so I've never had any Python problems. I don't know what the current Redhat install is. I have had some troubles with Mandrakes SDL RPM which is disappointing as it is an essential? library, at least for me. I also haven't had time to really dig into it. HTH, Alan -----Original Message----- From: Paul Hartley [mailto:p.hartley@spitech.com] Sent: Tuesday, July 01, 2003 10:47 PM To: tutor@python.org Subject: [Tutor] Linux versions I currently work almost exclusively with Windows 98 and XP. But I am becoming increasingly annoyed at the bully tactics of Microsoft so I would like to switch to Linux. I have made a couple of half-hearted atempts in the past but never stuck with it. This time I am serious!! So I need a recommendation. I recently saw questions where some python packages were being downloaded and would not work because the Linux was Mandrake and not Red Hat. I must say all the marketing hype of Mandrake had me looking at that version of Linux - as most of my time is spent with email, wordprocessing and spreadsheets - not programming. I am not on OS techie and I guess I would want to dual boot if only so I could play Railroad Tycoon sometimes. Any suggestions or experiences that Windows users have had switching to Linux would be most appretiated and what are the complications for using Python on the different systems. Kind regards Paul From DORSEY_EDMUND_K@LILLY.COM Wed Jul 2 13:17:01 2003 From: DORSEY_EDMUND_K@LILLY.COM (DORSEY_EDMUND_K@LILLY.COM) Date: Wed Jul 2 12:17:01 2003 Subject: [Tutor] Passing arguments Message-ID: This is a multipart message in MIME format. --=_alternative 0059423305256D57_= Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" I have a class called GUI which draws my GUI. I then have another class called Calc which does all the calculations. One of the GUI objects I'm using is a progressMeter (pmw) The progressMeter is declared in GUI and it has an update function called updateProgress. So you can have a loop and keep calling updateProgress and increment your progress. This works fine and dandy if I call updateProgress in the GUI class. The problem is I can't monitor the progress in the GUI class because the calculation is being done in the Calc class. Ideally, I want to called updateProgress in the loop of Calc Class. I thought for a second since python passes stuff by reference I could just pass a reference to the progressMeter to Calc and then do the update there but that doesn't work. Do I need to make the progressMeter global? I read that's not very elegant. How would I go about letting the Calc class update progressMeter. Thank you for your help. ~Ed --=_alternative 0059423305256D57_= Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii"
I have a class called GUI which draws my GUI.  I then have another class called Calc which does all the calculations.

One of the GUI objects I'm using is a progressMeter (pmw)

The progressMeter is declared in GUI and it has an update function called updateProgress.  So you can have a loop and keep calling updateProgress and increment your progress.
This works fine and dandy if I call updateProgress in the GUI class.  The problem is I can't monitor the progress in the GUI class because the calculation is being done in the Calc class.

Ideally, I want to called updateProgress in the loop of Calc Class.

I thought for a second since python passes stuff by reference I could just pass a reference to the progressMeter to Calc and then do the update there but that doesn't work.

Do I need to make the progressMeter global?  I read that's not very elegant.

How would I go about letting the Calc class update progressMeter.  Thank you for your help.

~Ed

--=_alternative 0059423305256D57_=-- From magnus@thinkware.se Wed Jul 2 13:30:02 2003 From: magnus@thinkware.se (Magnus =?iso-8859-1?Q?Lyck=E5?=) Date: Wed Jul 2 12:30:02 2003 Subject: [Tutor] Passing arguments In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <5.2.1.1.0.20030702183224.01fd1cb0@www.thinkware.se> At 11:14 2003-07-02 -0500, DORSEY_EDMUND_K@LILLY.COM wrote: >I thought for a second since python passes stuff by reference I could just >pass a reference to the progressMeter to Calc and then do the update there >but that doesn't work. This should work. You are doing it wrong I guess. Show some code please. We can't debug prose. ;) -- Magnus Lycka (It's really Lyckå), magnus@thinkware.se Thinkware AB, Sweden, www.thinkware.se I code Python ~ The Agile Programming Language From Suresh Kumar" Hi, Iam using python2.2/tkinter/windows. My doubt is regarding how to convert tkiner canvas as a PNG file? I have drawn some rectangles in my canvas. The canvas size is larger than the screen. Initially i used "ImageGrab" to grab the entire canvas. But the ImageGrab approach doesn't work in my case, since it copies pixels from the display, i couldn't able to grab the entire canvas. To overcome this problem i used Postscript generation mechanisms provided by the Canvas widget and coverted the canvas to a postscript file. In this case i converted entire canvas into a postscript file. The problem with Postscript format is, we need Ghostscript viewer to view the Postcript image which we have to install separately. Since most of the systems running under Windows OS will have "Microsoft Photo Editor", it would be nice to have a PNG file rather than PostScript file. Is there any way to store the entire canvas as a PNG file? Otherwise how can i convert a postscript file to PNG or BMP file in Python? Is it possible to convert postscript file to PNG file in python? Anyother solution.......? I need the solution urgently. Earlier replies are welcome. With Regards, V.Suresh Kumar ___________________________________________________ Click below to experience Sooraj R Barjatya's latest offering 'Main Prem Ki Diwani Hoon' starring Hrithik, Abhishek & Kareena http://www.mpkdh.com From reggie@merfinllc.com Wed Jul 2 13:36:02 2003 From: reggie@merfinllc.com (Reggie Dugard) Date: Wed Jul 2 12:36:02 2003 Subject: [Tutor] Passing arguments In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1057163744.29479.8.camel@pika> Edmund, You have the right idea about passing a reference to the progressMeter method to the Calc class instance, either in its constructor or when you call the method that does the calculation. For example gui = GUI(...) c = Calc(...) c.do_loop(..., gui.updateProgress) and in the do_loop method: def do_loop(self, ..., progress=None): ... while calculate: ... if progress: percent_done = ... progress(percent_done) Hopefully this will put you on the right track. On Wed, 2003-07-02 at 09:14, DORSEY_EDMUND_K@LILLY.COM wrote: > I have a class called GUI which draws my GUI. I then have another > class called Calc which does all the calculations. > > One of the GUI objects I'm using is a progressMeter (pmw) > > The progressMeter is declared in GUI and it has an update function > called updateProgress. So you can have a loop and keep calling > updateProgress and increment your progress. > This works fine and dandy if I call updateProgress in the GUI class. > The problem is I can't monitor the progress in the GUI class because > the calculation is being done in the Calc class. > > Ideally, I want to called updateProgress in the loop of Calc Class. > > I thought for a second since python passes stuff by reference I could > just pass a reference to the progressMeter to Calc and then do the > update there but that doesn't work. > > Do I need to make the progressMeter global? I read that's not very > elegant. > > How would I go about letting the Calc class update progressMeter. > Thank you for your help. > > ~Ed -- Reggie From project5@redrival.net Wed Jul 2 14:33:02 2003 From: project5@redrival.net (Andrei) Date: Wed Jul 2 13:33:02 2003 Subject: [Tutor] Re: compiling python apps In-Reply-To: <3F02A77E.2040801@xtra.co.nz> References: <3F013C6F.20202@xtra.co.nz> <3F02A77E.2040801@xtra.co.nz> Message-ID: Michael Honeyfield wrote: > hmm... the ready to run contains 3 1MB pysol_xx.pyc files. The xx being > some numbers. I understand that its not "compiel" but more a byte code. Indeed. > What I dont get is that when I run the src, which is only .py's, a .pyc > is made for each .py, so how come pysol only contains 3 of these .pyc's > and they are much larger than the .pyc's I get when I run the scripts. > Is there some way to "group" scripts together into a single .pyc and > then using python to run the .pyc? A .pyc is made when the program is executed for *every* .py file except the main one (the one you actually execute). In so far what you get sounds like quite normal behaviour. I don't know what PySol is doing, but considering the size difference (and I'm just guessing here) the "binary" modules might include some resources (or even modules) which are somehow unpacked and used/executed at runtime. There's a Python decompyler somewhere on the net, perhaps you could use it on the "binary" distro and see what you find out. I've never used the decompyler, but I've read its output can be reasonably readable. Andrei ===== Mail address in header catches spam. Real contact info (decode with rot13): cebwrpg5@bcrenznvy.pbz. Fcnz-serr! Cyrnfr qb abg hfr va choyvp cbfgf. V ernq gur yvfg, fb gurer'f ab arrq gb PP. From =?iso-8859-1?B?dHV0b3IucHl0aG9uLm9yZw==?=" --_b22c13855f2e96190b7c70f4dc2055326 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 SSBoYXZlIGEgc2VyaWVzIG9mIGxpc3RzIGNhbGxlZCAibGluZTEiLCAibGluZTIiLCAibGluZTMi LCBldGMuLi4gd2hpY2ggSSBjb21iaW5lIGludG8gb25lIGxpc3QgdGhpcyB3YXk6DQoNCmM0ID0g W10NCmZvciBpIGluIHJhbmdlKDQ2KToNCiAgICBleGVjKCdjNC5leHRlbmQobGluZScgKyBzdHIo aSsxKSArICcpJykNCg0KVGhlIGxpc3QgYXJlIGp1c3QgZGVjbGFyZWQgaW4gdGhlIHNjcmlwdCBh bmQgbGlzdCBuYW1lcyBhcmUgbm90IHN0b3JlZCBpbiBhbnl0aGluZyBiZXNpZGVzIFB5dGhvbidz IGRlZmF1bHQgZGF0YSBzdHJ1Y3R1cmVzLiAgQ2FuIGFueW9uZSB0ZWxsIG1lIGhvdyBJIGNhbiBk byB0aGlzIHdpdGhvdXQgdXNpbmcgZXhlYz8NCg0KUG9vciBZb3JpY2sNCnR1dG9yLnB5dGhvbi5v cmdAcG9vcnlvcmljay5jb20K --_b22c13855f2e96190b7c70f4dc2055326 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 PGh0bWw+CjxoZWFkPgo8bWV0YSBodHRwLWVxdWl2PSJDb250ZW50LVR5cGUiIGNvbnRlbnQ9InRl eHQvaHRtbDsgY2hhcnNldD1pc28tODg1OS0xIj4KPC9oZWFkPgo8Ym9keT4KSSBoYXZlIGEgc2Vy aWVzIG9mIGxpc3RzIGNhbGxlZCAibGluZTEiLCAibGluZTIiLCAibGluZTMiLCBldGMuLi4gd2hp Y2ggSSBjb21iaW5lIGludG8gb25lIGxpc3QgdGhpcyB3YXk6DTxicj4KDTxicj4KYzQgPSBbXQ08 YnI+CmZvciBpIGluIHJhbmdlKDQ2KToNPGJyPgogICAgZXhlYygnYzQuZXh0ZW5kKGxpbmUnICsg c3RyKGkrMSkgKyAnKScpDTxicj4KDTxicj4KVGhlIGxpc3QgYXJlIGp1c3QgZGVjbGFyZWQgaW4g dGhlIHNjcmlwdCBhbmQgbGlzdCBuYW1lcyBhcmUgbm90IHN0b3JlZCBpbiBhbnl0aGluZyBiZXNp ZGVzIFB5dGhvbidzIGRlZmF1bHQgZGF0YSBzdHJ1Y3R1cmVzLiAgQ2FuIGFueW9uZSB0ZWxsIG1l IGhvdyBJIGNhbiBkbyB0aGlzIHdpdGhvdXQgdXNpbmcgZXhlYz8NPGJyPgoNPGJyPgpQb29yIFlv cmljaw08YnI+CnR1dG9yLnB5dGhvbi5vcmdAcG9vcnlvcmljay5jb208YnI+CjwvYm9keT48L2h0 bWw+Cg== --_b22c13855f2e96190b7c70f4dc2055326-- From magnus@thinkware.se Wed Jul 2 16:49:02 2003 From: magnus@thinkware.se (Magnus =?iso-8859-1?Q?Lyck=E5?=) Date: Wed Jul 2 15:49:02 2003 Subject: [Tutor] extending a series of lists In-Reply-To: <20030702173329.27540.qmail@station198.com> Message-ID: <5.2.1.1.0.20030702214659.01fc3ed0@www.thinkware.se> At 17:33 2003-07-02 +0000, tutor.python.org wrote: >I have a series of lists called "line1", "line2", "line3", etc... which I >combine into one list this way: > >c4 = [] >for i in range(46): >exec('c4.extend(line' + str(i+1) + ')') Ouch! Don't use "list1", "list2" etc. Use a list of lists. I'd say that as soon as you write variable names with numbers like that, you are just trying to implement a list very poorly. ;) I.e. instead of having: list1 = [...] list2 = [...] ... you should have: lists = [] lists.append([...]) lists.append([...]) ... so in a place where you would use "list0" today, you use "lists[0]" instead. Where you want to iterate over the lists, simply use something like: c4 = [] for l in lists: c4.extend(l) -- Magnus Lycka (It's really Lyckå), magnus@thinkware.se Thinkware AB, Sweden, www.thinkware.se I code Python ~ The Agile Programming Language From dman@dman13.dyndns.org Wed Jul 2 17:43:01 2003 From: dman@dman13.dyndns.org (Derrick 'dman' Hudson) Date: Wed Jul 2 16:43:01 2003 Subject: [Tutor] Re: Linux versions In-Reply-To: <5.2.1.1.0.20030702151758.01f949b8@www.thinkware.se> References: <20030702044752.GJ1814@obrien.1984.lan> <004401c3404c$9ccd53a0$ebe710ac@paul> <20030702044752.GJ1814@obrien.1984.lan> <5.2.1.1.0.20030702151758.01f949b8@www.thinkware.se> Message-ID: <20030702204156.GA30172@dman13.dyndns.org> --9jxsPFA5p3P2qPhR Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Wed, Jul 02, 2003 at 03:22:33PM +0200, Magnus Lyck=E5 wrote: | At 09:58 2003-07-02 +0200, Yigal Duppen wrote: | >But here is the catch -- not on all systems does 'python' point to the | >latest version! For example, on my Debian system, 'python' points to | >'python1.5'. Old debian systems have 1.5.2 as the default python. Newer ones (running a current 'testing' or 'unstable') have either 2.2.2 or 2.2.3 as the default python. All "current" debian systems have the option of installing more than one python simultaneously. (I have 2.1, 2.2 and 2.3 installed right now) | Don't know much about Debian, but I do think that both Mandrake, | RedHat and SuSE are easier to get started with than Debian if you | are a newbie. I agree. | Debian suppsedly runs very well once it's installed, It does. (which is why I use it) | but to get there takes a while. This depends on several factors. For someone wholly inexperienced with unix then it certainly will take a while, particularly if you are unfamiliar with your hardware and details needed to configure it. As your familiarity increases, the time to get a new system going will vastly decrease. As a first recommendation, try Knoppix. It is entirely cd-based. You put the CD in the drive, boot, and there's the system. It doesn't affect your hard drive. It is a good way to try out a linux system or to use linux on a machine that you don't have permission/authority to alter the OS on. It just so happens that knoppix is based on debian, so transitioning from one to the other is quite easy, but once you get some familiarity with linux in general working with any other system will be easier. -D --=20 Misfortune pursues the sinner, but prosperity is the reward for the righteous. Proverbs 13:21 =20 http://dman13.dyndns.org/~dman/ --9jxsPFA5p3P2qPhR Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iEYEARECAAYFAj8DQ5MACgkQiB6vp1xAVUDCJgCfUByuypMy6ja1ehW6y3vDG9Mh gyoAnj/vao1ogfYKNGFLb4QzHBt110l3 =UyFj -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --9jxsPFA5p3P2qPhR-- From Michael Montagne Wed Jul 2 19:58:02 2003 From: Michael Montagne (Michael Montagne) Date: Wed Jul 2 18:58:02 2003 Subject: [Tutor] Exchange Public Folders Message-ID: <20030702225727.GB22128@boora.com> #!/bin/python import getpass, imaplib from mx.DateTime import * import smtplib cnt=0 host="webmail" address="montagne@boora.com" faddress="fax@boora.com" msg="Subject: Incoming Fax" M = imaplib.IMAP4('mailserver') M.login('FAX', 'faxpass') cnt=M.select('INBOX') print cnt #print M.list() typ, data = M.search(None, 'ALL') for num in data[0].split(): typ, data = M.fetch(num, '(RFC822)') M.append("Public Folders/FAX INBOX",None,None,num) M.copy(num,"Public Folders/FAX INBOX") # M.store(num,'+FLAGS','\Deleted') print ('%s' % (num)) #M.expunge() M.logout() if cnt: msg="Subject: Incoming Fax\n\n" + cnt[1][0] + " faxes just arrived" s=smtplib.SMTP(host) s.sendmail(faddress,address,msg) -- Michael Montagne http://www.themontagnes.com 503.226.1575 -- From jeff@ccvcorp.com Wed Jul 2 20:33:02 2003 From: jeff@ccvcorp.com (Jeff Shannon) Date: Wed Jul 2 19:33:02 2003 Subject: [Tutor] program flow References: <20030702031014.GB1637@linux.local> Message-ID: <3F036B79.2000500@ccvcorp.com> Payal Rathod wrote: >Hi, >Gregor example on "magic" funtions has set me thinking. I am wondering >how a program flow really is now. Consider a small example. > >#!/usr/bin/python >x = 1 >y = 2 > >def sum1(a,b): > ..... > return a > return b > >print "Magic Functins! Hello World!" > >z = sum1(x,y) > > >How does python flow works. It works out 1st 3 lines and then when it >comes to def sum1(a,b): what happens or it jumps that part and goes >directly to "Magic Functins! Hello World!" and then to z = sum1(x,y) >from where it jumps to def sum1(a,b): > When it gets to 'def sum(...)', it does just that -- it creates that function object, and binds it to the name 'sum'. It then proceeds to the print statement, and finally calls the just-created function object and binds the result of that call to the name 'z'. The key here is that 'def' is a statement, just like any other; it creates an object and binds that object to a name, at the time that the statement is executed. Jeff Shannon Technician/Programmer Credit International From as1116522@sapo.pt Wed Jul 2 21:30:02 2003 From: as1116522@sapo.pt (Paulo Baptista) Date: Wed Jul 2 20:30:02 2003 Subject: [Tutor] Anyone know about Anygui Message-ID: <1057195734.2549.3.camel@localhost.localdomain> Hi guys, Do you know if anygui is being maintained, development seems to have stopped for the reasons described on the project page, but do you know if the project's going to develop? Best regards, Paulo Baptista From python@kyle.sent.com Wed Jul 2 22:49:12 2003 From: python@kyle.sent.com (Kyle Babich) Date: Wed Jul 2 21:49:12 2003 Subject: [Tutor] FYI Message-ID: <20030703014802.A9DBB6BC69@smtp.us2.messagingengine.com> I just launched pyBoards.com, please check it out. It's a community for Python programmers. -- Kyle From thomi@thomi.imail.net.nz Wed Jul 2 22:53:01 2003 From: thomi@thomi.imail.net.nz (Thomas CLive Richards) Date: Wed Jul 2 21:53:01 2003 Subject: [Tutor] FYI In-Reply-To: <20030703014802.A9DBB6BC69@smtp.us2.messagingengine.com> References: <20030703014802.A9DBB6BC69@smtp.us2.messagingengine.com> Message-ID: <20030703135200.69d31314.thomi@thomi.imail.net.nz> > I just launched pyBoards.com, please check it out. It's a community > for Python programmers. it uses PHP!! what happened to python ;) -- Thomi Richards, thomi@thomi.imail.net.nz From payal-python@staticky.com Wed Jul 2 23:44:01 2003 From: payal-python@staticky.com (Payal Rathod) Date: Wed Jul 2 22:44:01 2003 Subject: [Tutor] is it a right choice? Message-ID: <20030703024420.GA1522@linux.local> Hi, Before I venture in the python infested world, I want to ask whether I am making a right choice by taking python as my first programming language. I cannot program in C, C++ or Java etc. I can *just* do little shell scripting. My objective in learning a better language is that I have huge log files in my office and get many logs files from friends who are sytem admins. I love to analyse those files and find out browing habits of my compnay (from squid logs), most number of mails sent to a domain ( like hotmail), number of bytes data transferred thru' http, pop3 and smtp etc. I prefer to write my own programs to do these things. With rudimentary shell scripting knowledge analysing log files which are many times over 200Mb is difficult so I was seeking a language which can do these tasks beautifully without getting too much involved in underlying concepts. Am I looking for Python? Is Perl easier to learn for a newbie than python? Is it OK to continue with Python? Also can Python produce binary programs like perl (perlcc)? Thanks, With warm regards, -Payal -- "Visit GNU/Linux Success Stories" http://payal.staticky.com Guest-Book Section Updated. From tbstep@tampabay.rr.com Thu Jul 3 00:23:02 2003 From: tbstep@tampabay.rr.com (Todd Stephens) Date: Wed Jul 2 23:23:02 2003 Subject: [Tutor] is it a right choice? Message-ID: <200307022320.37240.tbstep@tampabay.rr.com> Forgot to CC this to the list: On Wednesday 02 July 2003 10:44 pm, Payal Rathod wrote: > Am I looking for Python? Is Perl easier to learn for a newbie than > python? Is it OK to continue with Python? I would say that Python is the correct place to look. I haven't found a good Perl book for learning to program in general. While Python is very rich, you can do exactly what you are trying to do without dipping into the advanced features. I, like you, know some shell scripting and decided to learn a 'programming' language. I tried C, then Perl. I finally came to Python and found everything so much easier to put into practice. A great place to look to learn not only the ins and outs of Python, but of programming in general, is the free book "How to Think Like a Computer Scientist". It can be found at: http://www.ibiblio.org/obp/thinkCSpy/ You can also buy it in hardcopy at your favorite online book seller. It is also available in Java and (I think) C versions, but neither one of those is really as suited to your purpose as Python is. -- Todd Stephens From Suresh Kumar" Hi, In Tkinter, how to convert canvas coordinates to window coordinates? To convert window coordinates to canvas coordinates we are using "canvasx,canvasy". But how to do vice-versa? Iam using a canvas whose size is larger than screen size and drawn a rectagnle in the middle of canvas. When i select the rectangle i got its coordinates in terms of canvas coordinates. But i need it in window coordinate. How can i do it? With Regards, V.Suresh Kumar. ___________________________________________________ Click below to experience Sooraj R Barjatya's latest offering 'Main Prem Ki Diwani Hoon' starring Hrithik, Abhishek & Kareena http://www.mpkdh.com From lonetwin@yahoo.com Thu Jul 3 05:11:03 2003 From: lonetwin@yahoo.com (lonetwin) Date: Thu Jul 3 04:11:03 2003 Subject: [Tutor] is it a right choice? In-Reply-To: <200307022320.37240.tbstep@tampabay.rr.com> References: <200307022320.37240.tbstep@tampabay.rr.com> Message-ID: <200307031349.03024.lonetwin@yahoo.com> Hi Payal, On Thursday 03 Jul 2003 8:50 am, Todd Stephens wrote: > Forgot to CC this to the list: [ ... ] > You can also buy it in hardcopy at your favorite online book seller. It is > also available in Java and (I think) C versions, but neither one of those > is really as suited to your purpose as Python is. Just want to add to whatever Todd said. What I personally appreciate about Python is that it is a 'general purpose' language. You can hack up a quick and dirty script that 'does-the-job' as easily as a full blown application. However, one thing you ought to remember. Try and grok the concepts that you are introduced to instead of *how* those are implemented in the language, because those transcend the language that you choose to code in. Just like any *nix, once you know what the '-rwxr-xr-x' mean, you know about file permissions irrespective of what flavor of *nix you choose to use. A tip - one of the more effective ways to learn a new language (at least for me) is to tinker around with some existing code written by someone else. Fortunately for Python, there is a place where even newbies can find something that is simple enough to tinker around with (like the "Hello world !" program). I'm speaking of Useless Python http://www.uselesspython.com/ This is maintained my a group of volunteers from this list. You will also find links to other demo/example pages on the "Source links" page. Hope this gives you a itch to write at least one script worthy to be called Useless. :) Happy hacking Peace Steve -- printk("Penguin %d is stuck in the bottle.\n", i); 2.0.38 /usr/src/linux/arch/sparc/kernel/smp.c From python@kyle.sent.com Thu Jul 3 07:16:02 2003 From: python@kyle.sent.com (Kyle Babich) Date: Thu Jul 3 06:16:02 2003 Subject: [Tutor] Re: FYI In-Reply-To: <20030703032302.29897.15436.Mailman@mail.python.org> References: <20030703032302.29897.15436.Mailman@mail.python.org> Message-ID: <20030703101518.096F371133@smtp.us2.messagingengine.com> Heh... there aren't exactly any good boards out yet written in python. I did realize the irony of a python community written in php and I was looking for hours for a good python discussion board, but without luck. I do plan to switch it over when one does come out though. Hmm... Date: Thu, 3 Jul 2003 13:52:00 +1200 From: Thomas CLive Richards To: tutor@python.org Subject: Re: [Tutor] FYI > I just launched pyBoards.com, please check it out. It's a community > for Python programmers. it uses PHP!! what happened to python ;) -- Thomi Richards, thomi@thomi.imail.net.nz -- Kyle pyBoards.com :: A community for Python programmers From thomi@thomi.imail.net.nz Thu Jul 3 07:19:01 2003 From: thomi@thomi.imail.net.nz (Thomas CLive Richards) Date: Thu Jul 3 06:19:01 2003 Subject: [Tutor] Re: FYI In-Reply-To: <20030703101518.096F371133@smtp.us2.messagingengine.com> References: <20030703032302.29897.15436.Mailman@mail.python.org> <20030703101518.096F371133@smtp.us2.messagingengine.com> Message-ID: <20030703221824.61bf4044.thomi@thomi.imail.net.nz> > Heh... there aren't exactly any good boards out yet written in python. > I > did realize the irony of a python community written in php and I was > looking for hours for a good python discussion board, but without > luck. I do plan to switch it over when one does come out though. > Hmm... I started writing one, but stopped. Maybe i should finish it.... bleh... -- Thomi Richards, thomi@thomi.imail.net.nz From magnus@thinkware.se Thu Jul 3 10:33:01 2003 From: magnus@thinkware.se (Magnus =?iso-8859-1?Q?Lyck=E5?=) Date: Thu Jul 3 09:33:01 2003 Subject: [Tutor] Re: Linux versions In-Reply-To: <20030702204156.GA30172@dman13.dyndns.org> References: <5.2.1.1.0.20030702151758.01f949b8@www.thinkware.se> <20030702044752.GJ1814@obrien.1984.lan> <004401c3404c$9ccd53a0$ebe710ac@paul> <20030702044752.GJ1814@obrien.1984.lan> <5.2.1.1.0.20030702151758.01f949b8@www.thinkware.se> Message-ID: <5.2.1.1.0.20030703140058.01fd1df8@www.thinkware.se> As noted, modern Python versions come with most modern Linux distros. If you want to run a different Python version than you get with the Linux distro, that's no big problem either. Actually, Alex Martelli talked about Python 2.3 at Europython last week, and strongly encourage people to use the beta. It has fewer known bugs than 2.2.3, it's faster, and it has a number of new and useful packages. http://www.europython.org/Talks/Slides/ep03_py23.ppt will tell you more. If you do want to run e.g. python 2.3b2 on your linux box--it's not a big thing. Just download the source, build it and install it under /usr/local. I think this is the default of you just go to the newly downloaded Python directory and do... ./configure make make install ...but don't take my word for it, it's some time since I did that. Read the README. In general it will be much simpler than on Windows, and you don't need to install things like Visual Studio etc. You will typically have all you need. Your new executable will be in /usr/local/bin/python, and it will not interfere with any executable in the linux standard location, which is /usr/bin/python. By placing /usr/local/bin first in the PATH for your user account, you will run your Python 2.3 version if you type "python myfile.py" or if your files start with "#!/usr/bin/env python". If you have system admin tools etc that rely on using /usr/bin/python, that should work as before unless the Linux distributor made some serious mistake. Of course, if you build your own Python, you will probably have to build extension modules as well, but that's typically not more difficult on linux than downloading source an doing "python setup.py install" in the main directory of the downloaded file tree. I guess the rest of this mail is a bit off topic, since we seem to have established that it's quite possible to run Python well on most modern Linux distros. Still, I hope you can live with my further comments and questions about Debian. At 16:41 2003-07-02 -0400, Derrick 'dman' Hudson wrote about Debian installation: >For someone wholly inexperienced >with unix then it certainly will take a while, particularly if you are >unfamiliar with your hardware and details needed to configure it. I don't quite agree. Regardless of prior Unix experience, Debian is not nearly as easy to get started with as the other major Linux distributions. I'd say it's easier to complete a full Mandrake installation than it is to figure out what to download to just get your Debian installation started. Being an expert in korn shell scripting and knowing all the innards of awk, find and sys V init files doesn't change that. I have used Unix since the late 80's as a user and admin of SunOS/Solaris, Apollo Domain, HP/UX, AIX etc. I've used Linux since kernel version 1.2.8 (1994?). I've used Slackware, SuSE, RedHat and Mandrake, as well as some FreeBSD. I've tried to get started with Debian a few times, but I always gave up before I had a running system. I have several laptops without CDs (one doesn't even have a built in floppy--it's external) and it's trivial to get Mandrake running on them, with support for the touch screen on the smaller one etc. I just make a net installation floppy, and reply to some trivial questions. As far as I remember, there's just this single floppy image to get, and I can use rawrite in Windows or the Linux dd command to write that to a floppy. That part is identical for almost all floppy based linux installs. I've done that when I gor tired trying to navigate the Debian site. With Debian I've tried CDs I got in a bundle some years ago, and at that time, it was hopelessly cumbersome to select what software to install. I'm sure it's better now, but the problem seems to be that the Debian project is run by people who are all very involved in Debian and most things are trivial once you know them. I bet 90% of all Debian users got on-site assistance from someone with prior Debian assistance the first time they installed it. I surf to www.debian.org, I rather quickly reach something like http://www.dk.debian.org/distrib/floppyinst to get instructions on what to do next since I want to do a network install with floppys. Then the confusion starts. The link to the files just lead me to a list of mirrors full of files, and it's not clear what I need. I'm referred to five different manuals, and the manual describing what files I need, "Installing Debian GNU/Linux 3.0 For Intel x86 Chapter 11 - Appendix" list almost 100 different files, and refers me to yet another manual to understand just what I need. All these files are for "current", whatever that means. As far as I understand, Debian always have three versions: "stable", "testing" and "unstable". The currently stable version is called "woody", the current testing version is "sarge", and the currently unstable version is called "sid". I assume they also have numbers. But which does "current" point to? I know, most Debian people, who have struggled to get the hang of this will have a gut reaction to say, "Hang on, this is very simple." Well, let me tell you: It isn't. It's confusing. All this is just for the x86 files... I'm sure I only need a few of all these files, but I certainly get the impression that the Debian team is trying to scare people away, rather than to attract new users. I currently have an old IBM 760LD laptop with a P90, 48MB RAM, 810 MB disk, a floppy but no CD and a Netgear FA411 PCMCIA NIC that I'd be interested in running Debian on. No X, just a simple text based system with reasonable security where I can run some Python stuff via ssh etc across the net. Anyone who thinks he or she can guide me through this process is very welcome to try. It seems many Python developers use Debian as their development platform, so it's probably a good platform once you've got it running. >As a first recommendation, try Knoppix. It is entirely cd-based. Can I upgrade this to a current Debian version in a simple way, or am I limited to debs made for Knoppix? I'd really only be interested to use Knoppix as a more convenient installer for Debian. Is there a way to use Knoppix on machines lacking a CD? Would that be easier than other ways to get Debian running. -- Magnus Lycka (It's really Lyckå), magnus@thinkware.se Thinkware AB, Sweden, www.thinkware.se I code Python ~ The Agile Programming Language From jim_938@hotmail.com Thu Jul 3 10:54:01 2003 From: jim_938@hotmail.com (Jimmy verma) Date: Thu Jul 3 09:54:01 2003 Subject: [Tutor] range of int Message-ID: Hello *.*, Can some please tell me the range of interger variables in python. Like in C we have -32768-32767. Thanks in advance. Regards.. _________________________________________________________________ HCL Beanstalk PCs. You could win one. http://server1.msn.co.in/sp03/hclbeanstalktour/index.asp Interested? From magnus@thinkware.se Thu Jul 3 11:15:02 2003 From: magnus@thinkware.se (Magnus =?iso-8859-1?Q?Lyck=E5?=) Date: Thu Jul 3 10:15:02 2003 Subject: [Tutor] range of int In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <5.2.1.1.0.20030703160719.01fa1c50@www.thinkware.se> At 19:22 2003-07-03 +0530, Jimmy verma wrote: >Can some please tell me the range of interger variables in python. Like >in C we have -32768-32767. A normal Python int is 32 bits on a 32 bit computer. You can find the limits in the sys module. >>> import sys >>> print sys.maxint 2147483647 On a 64 bit system such as an Alpha, Itanium or Ultra Sparc, this would probably be 4611686018427387903, but it depends on the underlying C library. The largest possible int is sys.maxint, and the smallest possible is -1-sys.maxint. But note that modern Python versions will silently convert to long integers when calculation results no longer fit in an int. Thus int + int will return int or long depending on values. From version 2.3 the builtin int type/factory function will return longs if fed with a value that doesn't fit in the int type. With 2.2 you still get an overflow. >>> sys.maxint 2147483647 >>> sys.maxint+1 2147483648L >>> int(sys.maxint) 2147483647 >>> int(sys.maxint+1) Traceback (most recent call last): File "", line 1, in ? OverflowError: long int too large to convert to int In Python 2.3, int(sys.maxint+1) will return a long. This is a part of an ongoing merge of the long and int types. Eventually, Python will only have one integer type, and it's up to the implementation, not to the language standard to handle small integers in an effective way. Python's long integers can be as large as you like, as long as your computer doesn't run out of memory... -- Magnus Lycka (It's really Lyckå), magnus@thinkware.se Thinkware AB, Sweden, www.thinkware.se I code Python ~ The Agile Programming Language From Michael Montagne Thu Jul 3 14:00:02 2003 From: Michael Montagne (Michael Montagne) Date: Thu Jul 3 13:00:02 2003 Subject: [Tutor] Exchange Public Folders In-Reply-To: <20030702225727.GB22128@boora.com> References: <20030702225727.GB22128@boora.com> Message-ID: <20030703165921.GA25275@boora.com> Hey!! There's no message with that code!! Sorry bout that.What is supposed to happen is that all the items from the FAX user's inbox are going to be moved to a Public Folder called 'FAX INBOX'. I am running this from a Linux box so I don't have access to any of the win32 extensions, although I could if I must. I can effectively iterate through the messages but they won't copy. I'm sure the rights are OK. I can also effectively iterate the 'Public folders/FAX INBOX' folder. Is this even possible to do? >Displaying tremendous intelligence on 02/07/03, Michael Montagne wrote: > #!/bin/python > > import getpass, imaplib > from mx.DateTime import * > import smtplib > cnt=0 > host="webmail" > address="montagne@boora.com" > faddress="fax@boora.com" > msg="Subject: Incoming Fax" > > > M = imaplib.IMAP4('mailserver') > M.login('FAX', 'faxpass') > cnt=M.select('INBOX') > print cnt > #print M.list() > typ, data = M.search(None, 'ALL') > > > for num in data[0].split(): > typ, data = M.fetch(num, '(RFC822)') > M.append("Public Folders/FAX INBOX",None,None,num) > M.copy(num,"Public Folders/FAX INBOX") > # M.store(num,'+FLAGS','\Deleted') > print ('%s' % (num)) > #M.expunge() > M.logout() > if cnt: > msg="Subject: Incoming Fax\n\n" + cnt[1][0] + " faxes just arrived" > s=smtplib.SMTP(host) > s.sendmail(faddress,address,msg) -- Michael Montagne http://www.themontagnes.com 503.226.1575 -- From jeff@ccvcorp.com Thu Jul 3 14:37:04 2003 From: jeff@ccvcorp.com (Jeff Shannon) Date: Thu Jul 3 13:37:04 2003 Subject: [Tutor] is it a right choice? References: <20030703024420.GA1522@linux.local> Message-ID: <3F0469C4.9080200@ccvcorp.com> Payal Rathod wrote: >Hi, >Before I venture in the python infested world, I want to ask whether I >am making a right choice by taking python as my first programming >language. I cannot program in C, C++ or Java etc. I can *just* do little >shell scripting. > Opinions vary, of course, and since you're asking in a Python form it should hardly be surprising that replies you get will be favorable towards Python ;) Still, Python was designed from the start to be a language that would be easy for *everyone* to learn, even nonprogrammers, and there's a growing trend of using Python as a first language for teaching programming. So it seems reasonable to assume that it's a good choice for you. :) >My objective in learning a better language is that I have huge log files >in my office and get many logs files from friends who are sytem admins. >I love to analyse those files and find out browing habits of my compnay >(from squid logs), most number of mails sent to a domain ( like >hotmail), number of bytes data transferred thru' http, pop3 and smtp >etc. I prefer to write my own programs to do these things. >With rudimentary shell scripting knowledge analysing log files which are >many times over 200Mb is difficult so I was seeking a language which can >do these tasks beautifully without getting too much involved in >underlying concepts. >Am I looking for Python? Is Perl easier to learn for a newbie than >python? Is it OK to continue with Python? > For this sort of thing, I think Python is perfect. The interactive interpreter lets you play with your data, without needing a write/compile/run cycle, and there's lots of standard library modules that help you to handle standard protocols like http and pop3. (I've used the Python interpreter and poplib to check my home email from work without bothering to set up a profile in my email client.) Python has powerful string-handling capabilities, too, though there's a few minor tricks that should be kept in mind to keep large-scale string- and file-handling efficient. Perl, in contrast, may arguably be a bit stronger on the string-handling, but its syntax is very complex and confusing. It's much harder to figure out what's going on in a Perl program than it is to figure out a Python program -- this readability of Python is a *very* big advantage when it comes to learning, since it makes it much easier to pick up techniques from other programmers, not to mention a lot easier to see how that program you wrote last month works. (Trust me, after a month or two have passed since you wrote a program, you'll need to figure out how it works all over again, almost as much as if someone else had written it to begine with...) >Also can Python produce binary programs like perl (perlcc)? > > No, Python doesn't compile to binary, but that's not necessarily much of a disadvantage. Since Python is interpreted in a (relatively) platform-neutral way, it's easy to write scripts that run equally well on Windows and Unix, without needing to compile a version for each platform. And Python's dynamic nature (which is a large part of what makes it very difficult to compile to binary) has at least as many benefits as compiling to binary does -- the main advantage of binary code is speed, but that is not often an issue. (And when it is, you can always write a Python extension in C, which does the speed-critical parts of your calculations in a compiled library while letting you handle the overall architecture in Python.) If the motivation for binaries is to have a single self-contained executable to distribute, there's several utilities (Py2exe, McMillan Installer) that will package up a set of Python scripts with an interpreter into a single executable archive. This is not as space-efficient as a true compiled file, since it requires a new copy of the Python interpreter with each program, but it will allow your programs to run on computers that don't already have Python installed. Jeff Shannon Technician/Programmer Credit International From ATrautman@perryjudds.com Thu Jul 3 14:39:02 2003 From: ATrautman@perryjudds.com (Alan Trautman) Date: Thu Jul 3 13:39:02 2003 Subject: [Tutor] is it a right choice? Message-ID: <06738462136C054B8F8872D69DA140DB01082B@corp-exch-1.pjinet.com> Payal, I was in your shoes a few years ago and knew I had to learn a scripting language. After looking at the functionality of both and writing test programs in both I made a few observations: 1. I never learned awk and *NIX shell scripting so all of Perl's symbols were new to me and very frustrating. Especially the multiuse $ sign. Python reads in English which I loved. 2. Perl had a lot more libraries and already configured apps, libraries and app plug ins. This is changing but I think it is still true. 3. They both have objects and object oriented methods so you can learn, demonstrate, and test any items that can be done in C,C++ or JAVA. In most (possibly all) cases you can write them faster in Python. I chose Python because it didn't feel like a lot of work to learn and I haven't found anything else I can't do with Python (I do use C++ for some work still). I'm sure the Perl people can tell you many things they can do and Python can't but the task you outline is the first business application task I used Python for and it is really good at that type of file parsing. In you case I certainly can't recommend C or C++ (to in-depth for no gain) but could recommend JAVA if you have in house/friends who are JAVA programmers to consult with. Personally Python would be my choice for the least headache most gain in the scenario you outlined. HTH, Alan -----Original Message----- From: Payal Rathod [mailto:payal-python@staticky.com] Sent: Wednesday, July 02, 2003 9:44 PM To: Python Tutor ML Subject: [Tutor] is it a right choice? Hi, Before I venture in the python infested world, I want to ask whether I am making a right choice by taking python as my first programming language. I cannot program in C, C++ or Java etc. I can *just* do little shell scripting. My objective in learning a better language is that I have huge log files in my office and get many logs files from friends who are sytem admins. I love to analyse those files and find out browing habits of my compnay (from squid logs), most number of mails sent to a domain ( like hotmail), number of bytes data transferred thru' http, pop3 and smtp etc. I prefer to write my own programs to do these things. With rudimentary shell scripting knowledge analysing log files which are many times over 200Mb is difficult so I was seeking a language which can do these tasks beautifully without getting too much involved in underlying concepts. Am I looking for Python? Is Perl easier to learn for a newbie than python? Is it OK to continue with Python? Also can Python produce binary programs like perl (perlcc)? Thanks, With warm regards, -Payal -- "Visit GNU/Linux Success Stories" http://payal.staticky.com Guest-Book Section Updated. _______________________________________________ Tutor maillist - Tutor@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor From jmillr@umich.edu Thu Jul 3 15:10:02 2003 From: jmillr@umich.edu (John Miller) Date: Thu Jul 3 14:10:02 2003 Subject: [Tutor] tBoard In-Reply-To: <20030703032302.29897.15436.Mailman@mail.python.org> Message-ID: <6C7AF721-AD81-11D7-9FF6-00039303967A@umich.edu> On Wednesday, July 2, 2003, at 11:23 PM, Kyle Babich wrote: > I just launched pyBoards.com, please check it out. It's a community > for > Python programmers. You may want to check out a fairly recent project: http://tboard.sourceforge.net/ Perhaps a bit of encouragement offered to the developer (Tiberius Teng) would be worthwhile (Taiwanese high school student...) The download site is http://sourceforge.net/projects/tboard John Miller From Desai.Dinakar@mayo.edu Thu Jul 3 15:26:01 2003 From: Desai.Dinakar@mayo.edu (Dinakar) Date: Thu Jul 3 14:26:01 2003 Subject: [Tutor] ldap access from Python Help Message-ID: <3F047655.1050204@mayo.edu> Hello: I would like to use Python to access LDAP server to get email address and other info from our local ldap server. Can someone suggest what all the things I need to do to access. Do I need to install any modules or some other software. I am running Debian (testing) GNU/Linux and Python 2.2.3 Thank you very much. /dinakar From dyoo@hkn.eecs.berkeley.edu Thu Jul 3 15:53:02 2003 From: dyoo@hkn.eecs.berkeley.edu (Danny Yoo) Date: Thu Jul 3 14:53:02 2003 Subject: [Tutor] is it a right choice? [secondary languages besides Python] In-Reply-To: <06738462136C054B8F8872D69DA140DB01082B@corp-exch-1.pjinet.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 3 Jul 2003, Alan Trautman wrote: > In you case I certainly can't recommend C or C++ (to in-depth for no > gain) but could recommend JAVA if you have in house/friends who are JAVA > programmers to consult with. Hello! I can't recommend C as a first language. But I feel it's a good secondary language, particularly because it exposes a lot of the stupidity that goes on in a computer's hardware. *grin* C encourages putting oneself more into a low-level mindset, where we have to deal with gory details like memory management and pointer arithmetic and integer overflows. Learning C helps one to appreciate the features in a high-level language like Python, and will make you a better programmer. Java, too, will pose little problem once you learn Python: Java's very much like Python in a very rigid, concrete-reinforced straightjacket. The book "The C Programming Language", http://cm.bell-labs.com/cm/cs/cbook/ is well known for its brevity and depth, so if you're going to do C soon, look into K&R. Python's a very good first choice, not just because it is itself a great language, but because, when you want to branch out, it serves as a gateway to the other more "mainstream" languages. > Before I venture in the python infested world, ^^^^^^^^ Infested? This makes it sounds like Python is some sort of disease or something. *grin* Anyway, you can't really go too wrong with Python (or Perl). *grin* Just make sure it's not the only language you look at, if you're serious about learning how to program well. > I want to ask whether I am making a right choice by taking python as my > first programming language. I cannot program in C, C++ or Java etc. I > can *just* do little shell scripting. One other alternative beginners language you might want to check is Scheme. There's a good implementation of Scheme from the PLT Scheme folks: http://www.plt-scheme.org/ Scheme is definitely not mainstream. But it does have a good get of libraries, and quite a few good books both on paper and online: http://www.cs.berkeley.edu/~bh/simply-toc.html http://mitpress.mit.edu/sicp/ http://www.htdp.org/ The Scheme community appears to be much more academically oriented than others --- this may be a good thing or a bad thing, depending on your background. Good luck to you! From DORSEY_EDMUND_K@LILLY.COM Thu Jul 3 17:39:04 2003 From: DORSEY_EDMUND_K@LILLY.COM (DORSEY_EDMUND_K@LILLY.COM) Date: Thu Jul 3 16:39:04 2003 Subject: [Tutor] Memory Problem Message-ID: This is a multipart message in MIME format. --=_alternative 0071495E05256D58_= Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" My python crashes on large datasets and works fine with small ones. When it crashes it just tells me it's a memory error. What's odd is that I have 2 GB of memory and the dataset I am loading is only 35 MB. The process I am running on the data creates a file 8 times larger. So that would be 280 MB which still seems to leave plenty of memory. It says the problem is with this line of code return x + (y*self._newXsize) + z * (self._newXY) Here the value returned ranges from 0 to about 100 million I have a function which runs a loop do I need to delete anything to free up space? For example, if you have a function foo def foo(self): x = 1 y = 2 z = 3 return x*y*z and call it a million times from another function ie. def callFoo(self): for i in range(0, 1000000000): self.foo() Do the x,y,z variables in foo get deleted or does it need to be done manually? Thank you. ~Ed --=_alternative 0071495E05256D58_= Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii"
My python crashes on large datasets and works fine with small ones. When it crashes it just tells me it's a memory error.

What's odd is that I have 2 GB of memory and the dataset I am loading is only 35 MB.  The process I am running on the data creates a file 8 times larger.  So that would be 280 MB which still seems to leave plenty of memory.

It says the problem is with this line of code

return x + (y*self._newXsize) + z * (self._newXY)

Here the value returned ranges from 0 to about 100 million

I have a  function which runs a loop do I need to delete anything to free up space?  For example, if you have a function foo

def foo(self):
    x = 1
    y = 2
    z = 3
    return x*y*z

and call it a million times from another function ie.

def callFoo(self):
    for i in range(0, 1000000000):
        self.foo()

Do the x,y,z variables in foo get deleted or does it need to be done manually?  

Thank you. ~Ed

--=_alternative 0071495E05256D58_=-- From thomi@thomi.imail.net.nz Thu Jul 3 20:24:01 2003 From: thomi@thomi.imail.net.nz (Thomas CLive Richards) Date: Thu Jul 3 19:24:01 2003 Subject: [Tutor] checking for class version info. In-Reply-To: <20030702233925.6cb79b60.thomi@thomi.imail.net.nz> References: <20030702233925.6cb79b60.thomi@thomi.imail.net.nz> Message-ID: <20030704112303.66bb8f6b.thomi@thomi.imail.net.nz> i guess that from the HUGE non-reply this thread has gotten that it's not possible, correct? ahh well... -- Thomi Richards, thomi@thomi.imail.net.nz From magnus@thinkware.se Thu Jul 3 22:41:02 2003 From: magnus@thinkware.se (Magnus =?iso-8859-1?Q?Lyck=E5?=) Date: Thu Jul 3 21:41:02 2003 Subject: [Tutor] Memory Problem In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <5.2.1.1.0.20030704033042.01efca50@www.thinkware.se> At 15:37 2003-07-03 -0500, DORSEY_EDMUND_K@LILLY.COM wrote: >def callFoo(self): > for i in range(0, 1000000000): > self.foo() Ouch! The range function builds a list of integers, so you allocate space both for the list object, and for the integer objects in the list. Each integer object takes up four bytes, and I think each list item (which is a pointer) takes up four bytes as well. That would mean that you allocate 8 GB of memory when you do range(0, 1000000000). (BTW, range(0,x) is the same as range(x).) If you just use xrange() instead of range(), you won't create any list, but I don't know if Python will actually release the memory used for integers, since they are interned. (That integers are interned means that if you use 42 in several different places in your code, it will always use the same integer object.) If your memory usage doesn't go down to something much, much smaller with def callFoo(self): for i in xrange(1000000000): self.foo() you could try: def callFoo(self): for i in xrange(1000): for j in xrange(1000): for k in xrange(1000): self.foo() Now, you will only use roughly 4kB, instead of 8GB. That's much less memory, right? :) All integers from 0 to 999 will be created (and interned). The same integers will be used in the three loops. No list objects will be created, xrange will just return a new value for each turn in the loop. >Do the x,y,z variables in foo get deleted or does it need to be done >manually? x, y, z are deleted just fine. That's not your problem. -- Magnus Lycka (It's really Lyckå), magnus@thinkware.se Thinkware AB, Sweden, www.thinkware.se I code Python ~ The Agile Programming Language From magnus@thinkware.se Thu Jul 3 22:47:02 2003 From: magnus@thinkware.se (Magnus =?iso-8859-1?Q?Lyck=E5?=) Date: Thu Jul 3 21:47:02 2003 Subject: [Tutor] checking for class version info. In-Reply-To: <20030704112303.66bb8f6b.thomi@thomi.imail.net.nz> References: <20030702233925.6cb79b60.thomi@thomi.imail.net.nz> <20030702233925.6cb79b60.thomi@thomi.imail.net.nz> Message-ID: <5.2.1.1.0.20030704035018.01efffe8@www.thinkware.se> At 11:23 2003-07-04 +1200, Thomas CLive Richards wrote: >i guess that from the HUGE non-reply this thread has gotten that it's >not possible, correct? I'm not sure I ever saw the original posting. Can you give a pointer to where it is in the archives? (Or post again.) -- Magnus Lycka (It's really Lyckå), magnus@thinkware.se Thinkware AB, Sweden, www.thinkware.se I code Python ~ The Agile Programming Language From thomi@thomi.imail.net.nz Thu Jul 3 22:50:01 2003 From: thomi@thomi.imail.net.nz (Thomas CLive Richards) Date: Thu Jul 3 21:50:01 2003 Subject: [Tutor] checking for class version info. In-Reply-To: <5.2.1.1.0.20030704035018.01efffe8@www.thinkware.se> References: <20030702233925.6cb79b60.thomi@thomi.imail.net.nz> <20030702233925.6cb79b60.thomi@thomi.imail.net.nz> <5.2.1.1.0.20030704035018.01efffe8@www.thinkware.se> Message-ID: <20030704134907.2cc934ca.thomi@thomi.imail.net.nz> hmmm.. maybe my email stuffed up. It wouldn't be the first time... Hey, I have the following problem: I have developed a small program which saves (using the pickle module) some classes, and loads them at a later date. The trouble is, the program is under active development, and the contents of the classes are changing constantly. What i would like to do, is invent some way so that as the classes are loaded, they automatically detect if they are the save "version" as the current class in the program source file. If they are not, they somehow "re-initialise" themselves in the new class. does that make sense? the first way i thought i would do it is generate some sort of unique identifier for the source code file each class is in (the code is such that every class is in a separate file - this cannot be changed); the size of the file in bytes would probably be enough for this (or perhaps the last modification time?). However, that would mean that simple adding a comment to the class would cause the class to reload, and that wouldn't be too good. then i thought about having a variable in each class called "version", or something similar, so that when a developer updates a class significantly, he can change the version number, and the classes would reload themselves, if their version number didn't match that in the class source code file. The trouble with that is that developers are lazy, and would probably forget. Also, i have no idea how to go about doing this "reloading". It may be that the objects will have to be re-created every time the class changes, or that I'll have to make a conversion script, but there you go, any ideas? where should i go from here? thanks, -- Thomi Richards, thomi@thomi.imail.net.nz From bgailer@alum.rpi.edu Thu Jul 3 23:04:01 2003 From: bgailer@alum.rpi.edu (Bob Gailer) Date: Thu Jul 3 22:04:01 2003 Subject: [Tutor] checking for class version info. In-Reply-To: <20030702233925.6cb79b60.thomi@thomi.imail.net.nz> Message-ID: <5.2.1.1.0.20030703190342.074b0a38@66.28.54.253> --=======4B2D47A0======= Content-Type: multipart/alternative; x-avg-checked=avg-ok-7B3454B; boundary="=====================_44158977==.ALT" --=====================_44158977==.ALT Content-Type: text/plain; x-avg-checked=avg-ok-7B3454B; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit At 11:23 AM 7/4/2003 +1200, you wrote: >i guess that from the HUGE non-reply this thread has gotten that it's >not possible, correct? OK, I'll take a shot at it. At 11:39 PM 7/2/2003 +1200, Thomas CLive Richards wrote: >I have developed a small program which saves (using the pickle module) >some classes, and loads them at a later date. The trouble is, the >program is under active development, and the contents of the classes are >changing constantly. What i would like to do, is invent some way so that >as the classes are loaded, they automatically detect if they are the >save "version" as the current class in the program source file. If they >are not, they somehow "re-initialise" themselves in the new class. does >that make sense? It does, but you may be confusing classes and instances. The instances are what you'd need to re-initialise, no? >the first way i thought i would do it is generate some sort of unique >identifier for the source code file each class is in (the code is such >that every class is in a separate file - this cannot be changed); the >size of the file in bytes would probably be enough for this (or perhaps >the last modification time?). However, that would mean that simple >adding a comment to the class would cause the class to reload, and that >wouldn't be too good. > >then i thought about having a variable in each class called "version", >or something similar, so that when a developer updates a class >significantly, he can change the version number, and the classes would >reload themselves, if their version number didn't match that in the >class source code file. The trouble with that is that developers are >lazy, and would probably forget. > >Also, i have no idea how to go about doing this "reloading". It may be >that the objects will have to be re-created every time the class >changes, or that I'll have to make a conversion script, but there you go Here is how pickle handles re-initialising. From the pickle docs: "When a pickled class instance is unpickled, its __init__() method is normally not invoked. If it is desirable that the __init__() method be called on unpickling, a class can define a method __getinitargs__(), which should return a tuple containing the arguments to be passed to the class constructor (i.e. __init__()). The __getinitargs__() method is called at pickle time; the tuple it returns is incorporated in the pickle for the instance. Classes can further influence how their instances are pickled; if the class defines the method __getstate__(), it is called and the return state is pickled as the contents for the instance, instead of the contents of the instance's dictionary. If there is no __getstate__() method, the instance's __dict__ is pickled. Upon unpickling, if the class also defines the method __setstate__(), it is called with the unpickled state. If there is no __setstate__() method, the pickled object must be a dictionary and its items are assigned to the new instance's dictionary. If a class defines both __getstate__() and __setstate__(), the state object needn't be a dictionary and these methods can do what they want." Based on this you could accomplish the mechanics by using __getinitargs__ or __setstate__. Here's how __getinitargs__ could work: design __init__ to take a version # as an argument. Save the old version number (class property) using __getinitargs__ and have __init__ compare that to the current version number to decide if things needed to be re-initialised. class Foo: def __init__(self, version): if version != self.version: reinitialise code goes here self.version = '0.9.1' def __getinitargs__(): return (self.version, ) The issue of HOW to recognize changes or enforce developers to maintain version #s is of course a different topic. Bob Gailer bgailer@alum.rpi.edu 303 442 2625 --=====================_44158977==.ALT Content-Type: text/html; x-avg-checked=avg-ok-7B3454B; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit At 11:23 AM 7/4/2003 +1200, you wrote:

i guess that from the HUGE non-reply this thread has gotten that it's
not possible, correct?

OK, I'll take a shot at it.

At 11:39 PM 7/2/2003 +1200, Thomas CLive Richards wrote:
I have developed a small program which saves (using the pickle module)
some classes, and loads them at a later date. The trouble is, the
program is under active development, and the contents of the classes are
changing constantly. What i would like to do, is invent some way so that
as the classes are loaded, they automatically detect if they are the
save "version" as the current class in the program source file. If they
are not, they somehow "re-initialise" themselves in the new class. does
that make sense?

It does, but you may be confusing classes and instances. The instances are what you'd need to re-initialise, no?

the first way i thought i would do it is generate some sort of unique
identifier for the source code file each class is in (the code is such
that every class is in a separate file - this cannot be changed); the
size of the file in bytes would probably be enough for this (or perhaps
the last modification time?). However, that would mean that simple
adding a comment to the class would cause the class to reload, and that
wouldn't be too good.

then i thought about having a variable in each class called "version",
or something similar, so that when a developer updates a class
significantly, he can change the version number, and the classes would
reload themselves, if their version number didn't match that in the
class source code file. The trouble with that is that developers are
lazy, and would probably forget.

Also, i have no idea how to go about doing this "reloading". It may be
that the objects will have to be re-created every time the class
changes, or that I'll have to make a conversion script, but there you go

Here is how pickle handles re-initialising. From the pickle docs:

"When a pickled class instance is unpickled, its __init__() method is normally not invoked. If it is desirable that the __init__() method be called on unpickling, a class can define a method __getinitargs__(), which should return a tuple containing the arguments to be passed to the class constructor (i.e. __init__()). The __getinitargs__() method is called at pickle time; the tuple it returns is incorporated in the pickle for the instance.

Classes can further influence how their instances are pickled; if the class defines the method __getstate__(), it is called and the return state is pickled as the contents for the instance, instead of the contents of the instance's dictionary. If there is no __getstate__() method, the instance's __dict__ is pickled.
Upon unpickling, if the class also defines the method __setstate__(), it is called with the unpickled state. If there is no __setstate__() method, the pickled object must be a dictionary and its items are assigned to the new instance's dictionary. If a class defines both __getstate__() and __setstate__(), the state object needn't be a dictionary and these methods can do what they want."

Based on this you could accomplish the mechanics by using __getinitargs__ or __setstate__. Here's how __getinitargs__ could work:

design __init__ to take a version # as an argument. Save the old version number (class property) using __getinitargs__ and have  __init__ compare that to the current version number to decide if things needed to be re-initialised.

class Foo:

  def __init__(self, version):
    if version != self.version:
      reinitialise code goes here
      self.version = '0.9.1'

  def __getinitargs__():
      return (self.version, )

The issue of HOW to recognize changes or enforce developers to maintain version #s is of course a different topic.

Bob Gailer
bgailer@alum.rpi.edu
303 442 2625
--=====================_44158977==.ALT-- --=======4B2D47A0======= Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-avg=cert; x-avg-checked=avg-ok-7B3454B Content-Disposition: inline --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.492 / Virus Database: 291 - Release Date: 6/24/2003 --=======4B2D47A0=======-- From jmricker@nc.rr.com Thu Jul 3 23:38:04 2003 From: jmricker@nc.rr.com (Jody) Date: Thu Jul 3 22:38:04 2003 Subject: [Tutor] is it a right choice? In-Reply-To: <06738462136C054B8F8872D69DA140DB01082B@corp-exch-1.pjinet.com> Message-ID: <004c01c341d5$40b0e480$1d944a18@joelom35kpq2rs> Someone on the Useless Python list mentioned recently this article: http://www.peek-a-booty.org/pbhtml/index.php. The author of this article discusses the problems that he ran into when it came to compiled = languages like C++ and how much easier the project will be when he switches to = Python. Also, something I don't believed anyone has mentioned regarding Python = is the wonderful community you get with it. Having learned many languages myself and being involved in the communities associated with them, the openness of sharing and teaching that prevails in this mailing list and other Python related areas is very unique. I've seen other groups where = the users are openly hostile to new programmers and do not encourage = questions or give much help and instead take a "for me to know and for you to find out" attitude. With Python, people are very willing to be patient with = you as long as you are patient with them. That is the #1 reason I've stuck = with Python over any language. Jody From idiot1@netzero.net Fri Jul 4 00:17:05 2003 From: idiot1@netzero.net (Kirk Bailey) Date: Thu Jul 3 23:17:05 2003 Subject: [Tutor] email stuff in python Message-ID: <3F04F180.2010002@netzero.net> well, by now you know that python email is what I like to do. Recently, having dealt with a lot of spam, I decided to create an alias to trap and save spam for later examination by our coven of dread legal vampires- simple, an alias feeds it to a file where it is appended, and a ssi include in a web page lets us inspect the contents any time I like. This looks like: More on this later on. Then I realized, this is what a local delivery program does. So I wrote a simple program to absorb the input from an alias, and write it out to a file for later access. With more work, such a program could listen to an incoming port and receive email, extract the TO: field data, and send the message to a pop3 mailbox, or to an alternate destination were one defined, or just eat it. I may just write one as a giggle later on this weekend. Anyroad, it's useless, but is a working example of using stdin to accept email from an alias and do something intresting with it. Possible useless python candidate? OK, it's later. An intresting challenge is to get the browser to preserve paragraphing and composition and still word wrap the display to fit the screen. See, simple html wordwraps, but ignores newlines, obliterating the spacing of paragraphs and ending lines where you want them to. As some email transmission clients depend on the recipient to wrap to fit space, they tend to send on one line until you click the [return] key, which looks terrible in a 

 zone.

My quick and dirty solution is to use a textarea, and until I find a simple and powerful 
alternate, that's how I will address such issues in the future.

Anyonw who wants to see this thing click here:
http://www.tinylist.org/mailbox.shtml

To email something to it and see the result, email:
mailto:mailbox@tinylist.org

Here is the actual script:

#!/usr/local/bin/python
import sys, string
#
def gangstrip(thing):                   # ok, everybody STRIP!
         index=0                         # This strips out whitespace chars
         while index < len(thing):       # define exit
                 thing[index]=string.rstrip(thing[index])
                 index=index+1           # increase the counter
#
filename=sys.argv[1]    # the idea is the alias has a command line arguement
pwd='/www/www.tinylist.org/cgi-bin/'
print pwd
msg=sys.stdin.readlines() #and standard_in receives the entire message.
gangstrip(msg)
f1=open(pwd+filename,'a')
for line in msg:
         f1.write(line+'\n')
f1.close()


-- 

end

Cheers!
         Kirk D Bailey
                               think
http://www.howlermonkey.net/ +-----+ http://www.tinylist.org/
http://www.listville.net/    | BOX | http://www.sacredelectron.org/
                              +-----+
"Thou art free"-ERIS          think    'Got a light?'-Promethieus

.



From abli@freemail.hu  Fri Jul  4 03:04:01 2003
From: abli@freemail.hu (Abel Daniel)
Date: Fri Jul  4 02:04:01 2003
Subject: [Tutor] Memory Problem
In-Reply-To: <5.2.1.1.0.20030704033042.01efca50@www.thinkware.se>
References:  <5.2.1.1.0.20030704033042.01efca50@www.thinkware.se>
Message-ID: <20030704060258.GA639@hooloovoo>

Magnus Lyck? wrote:
> If you just use xrange() instead of range(), you won't create any
> list, but I don't know if Python will actually release the memory
> used for integers, since they are interned. (That integers are interned
> means that if you use 42 in several different places in your code, it
> will always use the same integer object.)
Isn't this only done for small ( < 100) integers?

>>> a=99
>>> b=99
>>> id(a)
135432252
>>> id(b)
135432252
>>> a=100
>>> b=100
>>> id(a)
135431964
>>> id(b)
135432000

Abel Daniel


From yduppen@xs4all.nl  Fri Jul  4 05:14:01 2003
From: yduppen@xs4all.nl (Yigal Duppen)
Date: Fri Jul  4 04:14:01 2003
Subject: [Tutor] checking for class version info.
In-Reply-To: <20030704112303.66bb8f6b.thomi@thomi.imail.net.nz>
References: <20030702233925.6cb79b60.thomi@thomi.imail.net.nz> <20030704112303.66bb8f6b.thomi@thomi.imail.net.nz>
Message-ID: <200307041013.52946.yduppen@xs4all.nl>

=2D----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On Friday 04 July 2003 01:23, Thomas CLive Richards wrote:
> i guess that from the HUGE non-reply this thread has gotten that it's
> not possible, correct?

It seems to be possible; just not that easy. A quick look on "python=20
persistence" resulted, among others, in the following article:

http://www-106.ibm.com/developerworks/linux/library/l-pypers.html

The chapter "Schema evolution" seems to be what you're looking for. It also=
=20
contains a link to ZODB, a different way of managing persistence.

YDD
=2D --=20
http://www.xs4all.nl/~yduppen
=2D----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.2.1 (GNU/Linux)

iD8DBQE/BTdALsKMuCf5EdwRAtHVAKCsv9NLnCi5XJk2nkkPknMLNrSEpwCg5rYk
6PWXl/cFgmV1HSzP8vRBxBo=3D
=3DHJBS
=2D----END PGP SIGNATURE-----



From jim_938@hotmail.com  Fri Jul  4 05:40:03 2003
From: jim_938@hotmail.com (Jimmy verma)
Date: Fri Jul  4 04:40:03 2003
Subject: [Tutor] Multiplication without overflow
Message-ID: 

Hello Sir,

I am having some problem in understanding this small one line function in 
python.

def u16mult(a,b):
  return ((a*(b&0x0fff)&0xffff)+(((a*(b>>12))&0x000f)<<12))&0xffff

we need a multiplication function that will handle 16-bit unsigned values 
without the overflow that 32-bit signed values can suffer from.

I am not getting completely how this is being done here. I need some 
suggestions regarding this.

Thanks in advance.

Regards,
Jim

_________________________________________________________________
Race along with NK. The fastest Indian 
http://server1.msn.co.in/sp03/tataracing/index.asp Feel the thrill!



From sudhirchauhan1@yahoo.co.in  Fri Jul  4 05:59:02 2003
From: sudhirchauhan1@yahoo.co.in (=?iso-8859-1?q?sudhir=20chauhan?=)
Date: Fri Jul  4 04:59:02 2003
Subject: [Tutor] Getting list of installed software on a Windows 2000/XP machine
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <20030704085736.53690.qmail@web8206.mail.in.yahoo.com>

--0-1231372990-1057309056=:53434
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

Dear All,
 
 How I can get the list of installed softwares on Windows  machine using Perl. any pointers will be helpful
 
Regards,
 
Sudhir


 

SMS using the Yahoo! Messenger;Download latest version.
--0-1231372990-1057309056=:53434
Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit


Dear All,


 


 How I can get the list of installed softwares on Windows  machine using Perl. any pointers will be helpful


 


Regards,


 


Sudhir




 
Yahoo! India Mobile
SMS using the Yahoo! 
Messenger;

Download latest version.
--0-1231372990-1057309056=:53434--


From sudhirchauhan1@yahoo.co.in  Fri Jul  4 06:02:26 2003
From: sudhirchauhan1@yahoo.co.in (=?iso-8859-1?q?sudhir=20chauhan?=)
Date: Fri Jul  4 05:02:26 2003
Subject: [Tutor] Getting list of installed software on a Windows 2000/XP machine
In-Reply-To: <20030704085736.53690.qmail@web8206.mail.in.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20030704090109.45898.qmail@web8204.mail.in.yahoo.com>

sorry i mean python :)


 --- sudhir chauhan 
wrote: > Dear All,
>  
>  How I can get the list of installed softwares on
> Windows  machine using Perl. any pointers will be
> helpful
>  
> Regards,
>  
> Sudhir
> 
> 
>  
> 
> SMS using the Yahoo! Messenger;Download latest
version. 

________________________________________________________________________
Send free SMS using the Yahoo! Messenger. Go to http://in.mobile.yahoo.com/new/pc/


From abli@freemail.hu  Fri Jul  4 06:30:03 2003
From: abli@freemail.hu (Abel Daniel)
Date: Fri Jul  4 05:30:03 2003
Subject: [Tutor] Multiplication without overflow
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <20030704092911.GA842@hooloovoo>

Jimmy verma wrote:
> I am having some problem in understanding this small one line function in 
> python.
> 
> def u16mult(a,b):
>  return ((a*(b&0x0fff)&0xffff)+(((a*(b>>12))&0x000f)<<12))&0xffff
> 
> we need a multiplication function that will handle 16-bit unsigned values 
> without the overflow that 32-bit signed values can suffer from.
What overflow?

Python 2.2.2 (#1, Mar 21 2003, 23:01:54) 
[GCC 3.2.3 20030316 (Debian prerelease)] on linux2
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> a=2**32
>>> a
4294967296L
>>> a*a
18446744073709551616L
>>> 

Abel Daniel


From Suresh  Kumar" 

Hi,
    In Tkinter, how to convert canvas coordinates to window
coordinates? To convert window coordinates to canvas coordinates
we are using "canvasx,canvasy". But how to do vice-versa?

With Regards,
V.Suresh Kumar.
___________________________________________________
Click below to experience Sooraj R Barjatya's latest offering
'Main Prem Ki Diwani Hoon' starring Hrithik, Abhishek
  & Kareena http://www.mpkdh.com



From Anish.Mehta@enst-bretagne.fr  Fri Jul  4 09:28:02 2003
From: Anish.Mehta@enst-bretagne.fr (Mehta, Anish)
Date: Fri Jul  4 08:28:02 2003
Subject: [Tutor] match?
Message-ID: <3F05778D.7050906@antares.enst-bretagne.fr>

Hello *.*,

Can someone suggest me sthig abt this :

num = re.compile("\-?[0-9]+(\.[0-9]+)?")

What kind of pattern i can match with this.

Thanks in advance.

Regards,

Anish





From python@kyle.sent.com  Fri Jul  4 10:08:01 2003
From: python@kyle.sent.com (Kyle Babich)
Date: Fri Jul  4 09:08:01 2003
Subject: [Tutor] FYI
In-Reply-To: <3F04ECA8.5050305@netzero.net>
References: <20030703014802.A9DBB6BC69@smtp.us2.messagingengine.com> <3F04ECA8.5050305@netzero.net>
Message-ID: <20030704130729.F3CB37210A@smtp.us2.messagingengine.com>

Sure...

http://www.pyboards.com/

On Thu, 03 Jul 2003 22:55:36 -0400, "Kirk Bailey" 
said:
> fine, great, glad to hear it.
> 
> Um, Kyle, could you post the url to it on this list for  us all to click
> on?
> It helps...
> 
> 
> Kyle Babich wrote:
> > I just launched pyBoards.com, please check it out.  It's a community for
> > Python programmers.
> > --
> > Kyle
> > 
> > _______________________________________________
> > Tutor maillist  -  Tutor@python.org
> > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor
> > 
> > 
> 
> 
> -- 
> 
> end
> 
> Cheers!
>          Kirk D Bailey
>                                think
> http://www.howlermonkey.net/ +-----+ http://www.tinylist.org/
> http://www.listville.net/    | BOX | http://www.sacredelectron.org/
>                               +-----+
> "Thou art free"-ERIS          think    'Got a light?'-Promethieus
> 
> .
> 
> 
--
Kyle
pyBoards.com :: A community for Python programmers


From shalehperry@comcast.net  Fri Jul  4 10:49:03 2003
From: shalehperry@comcast.net (Sean 'Shaleh' Perry)
Date: Fri Jul  4 09:49:03 2003
Subject: [Tutor] match?
In-Reply-To: <3F05778D.7050906@antares.enst-bretagne.fr>
References: <3F05778D.7050906@antares.enst-bretagne.fr>
Message-ID: <200307040648.22096.shalehperry@comcast.net>

On Friday 04 July 2003 05:48, Mehta, Anish wrote:
> Hello *.*,
>
> Can someone suggest me sthig abt this :
>
> num = re.compile("\-?[0-9]+(\.[0-9]+)?")
>
> What kind of pattern i can match with this.
>

break it down:

\-? zero or one dash (or minus sign)

[0-9]+ one or more numbers in the range 0 - 9

( begin a group

\.[0-9]+ of one or more numbers, preceded by a period

)? that can occur once or not at all.

So this matches:

9

-987

2.5

3.72

-5.300

-12345.6789

and so on.  In other words, it appears to be designed to match any real 
number.




From silviucc@home.ro  Fri Jul  4 11:00:17 2003
From: silviucc@home.ro (Silviu Cojocaru)
Date: Fri Jul  4 10:00:17 2003
Subject: [Tutor] EOF function
Message-ID: 

I want to write a function that will return 1 if EndOfFile is reached 
and 0 if not. Problem is I have no idea how that's done. Maybe there is 
a function that could return the current position in a file and if the 
char at that position is the EOF char then return 1.

Problems:
I do not know the escape sequence for EOF
I do not know a function that returns the current position in a file so 
maybe I need to write it as well :/ and again I would be at a loss.

If anyone can help me, I would be grateful.

-- 
Registered Linux user #298569
In this vale
Of toil and sin
Your head grows bald
But not your chin.
		-- Burma Shave



From Shey@argonaut.com  Fri Jul  4 11:54:03 2003
From: Shey@argonaut.com (Shey Crompton)
Date: Fri Jul  4 10:54:03 2003
Subject: [Tutor] wxPython demo
Message-ID: <415C917D807AD411B72C00805FF7330B053F8757@MAILSRV>

Hi all,
Apologies if this is the wrong mailing list.

I thought I would install wxPython this afternoon, and see what the demo was
like. 

I have installed everything off the wxPython.org site, but when I choose
'run the wxPython demo' from the start menu, I get a flash up on the screed,
which disappears quickly, and then nothing.

Does anyone have an idea of what I'm doing wrong, and how to run the demo?
I'm on win2k pro, and downloaded the wxPython for python 2.2, which I have
installed.

Also, is there an editor that is tailored to wxPython (I don't know if one
came with it)? 

Sorry if these are obvious questions. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,

Shey



From pythontutor@venix.com  Fri Jul  4 12:01:02 2003
From: pythontutor@venix.com (Lloyd Kvam)
Date: Fri Jul  4 11:01:02 2003
Subject: [Tutor] EOF function
References: 
Message-ID: <3F05965C.3010805@venix.com>

I suspect you are writing in Python, but thinking in C.  However, I'll
try to help.

There is no escape sequence for EOF.  Very old MS-DOS used a  (chr(26))
character to mark the end of a file.  The normal process is that the OS knows
how many bytes are in a file.  Trying to read more than that means you have
reached the EOF.

The Python file object includes methods:
	tell
	seek
tell reports the current position, an offset in bytes from the start of the file.
seek allows you to set the position within the file using an offset and
specifying if that offset is relative to the start, current position, or end
of the file.

You can use the os and stat modules to find the size of a file.


import os, stat
file_size = os.stat(file_path_name)[stat.ST_SIZE]
myfile = file(file_path_name,'rb')
mydata = myfile.read(1000)
if myfile.tell() < file_size:
	print "more data"
else:
	print "reached end"

os.stat returns a tuple.  The stat module provides constants for decoding
the tuple.

For more detail see the module documentation.

Now the file objects read methods will return '' when there is no more data
to be read.  I would expect that it is easier to read and get a '' than it
is to constantly check the file position before reading.

Silviu Cojocaru wrote:
> I want to write a function that will return 1 if EndOfFile is reached 
> and 0 if not. Problem is I have no idea how that's done. Maybe there is 
> a function that could return the current position in a file and if the 
> char at that position is the EOF char then return 1.
> 
> Problems:
> I do not know the escape sequence for EOF
> I do not know a function that returns the current position in a file so 
> maybe I need to write it as well :/ and again I would be at a loss.
> 
> If anyone can help me, I would be grateful.
> 


-- 
Lloyd Kvam
Venix Corp.
1 Court Street, Suite 378
Lebanon, NH 03766-1358

voice:	603-443-6155
fax:	801-459-9582



From monashee@junction.net  Fri Jul  4 13:30:23 2003
From: monashee@junction.net (J or M Montgomery)
Date: Fri Jul  4 12:30:23 2003
Subject: [Tutor] Re: Linux versions
In-Reply-To: <5.2.1.1.0.20030703140058.01fd1df8@www.thinkware.se>
References: <5.2.1.1.0.20030702151758.01f949b8@www.thinkware.se> <5.2.1.1.0.20030703140058.01fd1df8@www.thinkware.se>
Message-ID: <200307040927.13164.monashee@junction.net>

On Thursday 03 July 2003 06:37, Magnus Lyck=E5 wrote:
>
After massive pruning.

> I've tried to get started with Debian a few times, but I always gave up
> before I had a running system.=20
>
I have had exactly the same experience with Debian.  I use Mandrake and t=
he=20
setup and installation is faster, more complete and much much simpler tha=
n=20
Win 98 offers.  In addition, the Mandrake community is very generous with=
=20
helping out and tolerate the less skillful very well.

Cheers

John Montgomery



From magnus@thinkware.se  Fri Jul  4 18:58:02 2003
From: magnus@thinkware.se (Magnus =?iso-8859-1?Q?Lyck=E5?=)
Date: Fri Jul  4 17:58:02 2003
Subject: [Tutor] Memory Problem
In-Reply-To: <20030704060258.GA639@hooloovoo>
References: <5.2.1.1.0.20030704033042.01efca50@www.thinkware.se>
 
 <5.2.1.1.0.20030704033042.01efca50@www.thinkware.se>
Message-ID: <5.2.1.1.0.20030704230905.01ff3e28@www.thinkware.se>

At 08:02 2003-07-04 +0200, Abel Daniel wrote:
>Magnus Lyck? wrote:
> > If you just use xrange() instead of range(), you won't create any
> > list, but I don't know if Python will actually release the memory
> > used for integers, since they are interned. (That integers are interned
> > means that if you use 42 in several different places in your code, it
> > will always use the same integer object.)
>Isn't this only done for small ( < 100) integers?

Oh, I didn't know that. Thanks! Is that a recent change?
I seem to remember that construction of big ranges was
a problem, since the integers weren't garbage collected.

Making a one billion item list with range will still use
8 GB of memory though, but if the big integers go away when
we no longer use them, xrange(1000000000) should present
no problems.


--
Magnus Lycka (It's really Lyckå), magnus@thinkware.se
Thinkware AB, Sweden, www.thinkware.se
I code Python ~ The Agile Programming Language 



From project5@redrival.net  Fri Jul  4 19:03:01 2003
From: project5@redrival.net (Andrei)
Date: Fri Jul  4 18:03:01 2003
Subject: [Tutor] Re: wxPython demo
In-Reply-To: <415C917D807AD411B72C00805FF7330B053F8757@MAILSRV>
References: <415C917D807AD411B72C00805FF7330B053F8757@MAILSRV>
Message-ID: 

Shey Crompton wrote:
> Hi all,
> Apologies if this is the wrong mailing list.

There is a wxPython mailing list (link on the wxpython site).

> I have installed everything off the wxPython.org site, but when I choose
> 'run the wxPython demo' from the start menu, I get a flash up on the screed,
> which disappears quickly, and then nothing.

Open a console (Start -> Run -> "cmd" or "command", I'm not sure which 
one you get with win2k) and go to "\Lib\site-packages\wxPython\demo" (use "cd " to 
switch directories in dos mode). When you're there, type "python 
demo.py". You'll get a traceback in the console. Copy it to clipboard 
and ask for help using that traceback.

Btw, this traceback appears now when you start the demo, but only very, 
very briefly as the console is automatically shut down if you use the 
Start menu shortcut for the demo.

> Does anyone have an idea of what I'm doing wrong, and how to run the demo?
> I'm on win2k pro, and downloaded the wxPython for python 2.2, which I have
> installed.

My guess would be a mismatch between your Python version and the 
wxPython version, as I've never had any problems with the demo. But the 
traceback should give more info.

> Also, is there an editor that is tailored to wxPython (I don't know if one
> came with it)? 

PyCrust is a shell written in wxPython and included in the distro, but I 
don't think you need a special editor for wxPython. Perhaps you're 
looking for an IDE like Boa Constructor or wxGlade (both are open 
source). There's also wxDesigner, but that one's not free. I use wxGlade 
to generate GUI code and subclass that to add functionality, working in 
the Scite editor.

Andrei


=====
Mail address in header catches spam. Real contact info (decode with rot13):
cebwrpg5@bcrenznvy.pbz. Fcnz-serr! Cyrnfr qb abg hfr va choyvp cbfgf. V 
ernq gur yvfg, fb gurer'f ab arrq gb PP.




From magnus@thinkware.se  Fri Jul  4 20:53:01 2003
From: magnus@thinkware.se (Magnus =?iso-8859-1?Q?Lyck=E5?=)
Date: Fri Jul  4 19:53:01 2003
Subject: [Tutor] EOF function
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <5.2.1.1.0.20030705015648.01f7e720@www.thinkware.se>

At 17:16 2003-07-04 +0300, Silviu Cojocaru wrote:
>I want to write a function that will return 1 if EndOfFile is reached
>and 0 if not.

Why? What are you *really* trying to achieve.
This is nothing you normally need in Python.


--
Magnus Lycka (It's really Lyckå), magnus@thinkware.se
Thinkware AB, Sweden, www.thinkware.se
I code Python ~ The Agile Programming Language 



From magnus@thinkware.se  Fri Jul  4 21:02:02 2003
From: magnus@thinkware.se (Magnus =?iso-8859-1?Q?Lyck=E5?=)
Date: Fri Jul  4 20:02:02 2003
Subject: [Tutor] wxPython demo
In-Reply-To: <415C917D807AD411B72C00805FF7330B053F8757@MAILSRV>
Message-ID: <5.2.1.1.0.20030705015811.01f5b890@www.thinkware.se>

At 15:56 2003-07-04 +0100, Shey Crompton wrote:
>Hi all,
>Apologies if this is the wrong mailing list.

The wxpython mailing list is probably better...

>I thought I would install wxPython this afternoon, and see what the demo was
>like.

Good idea! :)

>I have installed everything off the wxPython.org site, but when I choose
>'run the wxPython demo' from the start menu, I get a flash up on the screed,
>which disappears quickly, and then nothing.

Try this:

Start -> Run cmd.exe
Type "cd " and then drop the lib/site-packages/wxPython/demo directory
from Explorer on the command prompt. Press enter. You should now be
in the wxPython/demo directory.

Type "python demo.py". What happens? What error messages
do you get?

>Also, is there an editor that is tailored to wxPython (I don't know if one
>came with it)?

What do you mean? Any editor can be used with wxPython.
Are you after a GUI builder or a GUI debugger or what?


--
Magnus Lycka (It's really Lyckå), magnus@thinkware.se
Thinkware AB, Sweden, www.thinkware.se
I code Python ~ The Agile Programming Language 



From magnus@thinkware.se  Sat Jul  5 08:06:15 2003
From: magnus@thinkware.se (Magnus =?iso-8859-1?Q?Lyck=E5?=)
Date: Sat Jul  5 07:06:15 2003
Subject: [Tutor] EOF function
In-Reply-To: 
References: <5.2.1.1.0.20030705015648.01f7e720@www.thinkware.se>
Message-ID: <5.2.1.1.0.20030705125330.01f782a8@www.thinkware.se>

At 13:15 2003-07-05 +0300, Silviu Cojocaru wrote:
>On Sat, 5 Jul 2003, Magnus Lyck=E5 wrote:
>
> > At 17:16 2003-07-04 +0300, Silviu Cojocaru wrote:
> > >I want to write a function that will return 1 if EndOfFile is reached
> > >and 0 if not.
> >
> > Why? What are you *really* trying to achieve.
> > This is nothing you normally need in Python.
>
>I was trying to read a file line by line. Being used to Pascal I tried
>the Pascal way :) Then a post to the tutor list enlightened me. There
>was something about using readlines(). So I did :) It shrank the code I
>have already written and working to half its size, and it even worked
>better :)

But .readlines() reads the whole file at once, and puts it in a list.
That might be a problem with a big file. With modern python versions,
you can simply iterate over the file object.

f =3D file(filename)
for line in f:
     print line,
f.close()

If you are lazy, you can simply do

for line in file(filename):
     print line,

Note that each line will end with a line-feed (or whatever you
have on your platform). That's why I end the print statement
with a comma--do avoid double line feeds.

Note that you don't explicitly close the file in the shorter version.
I the current C based version of Python, I think it will be closed as
soon as the loop ends, but the language doesn't guarantee that, and in
the Java implementation of Python--Jython, the file might not be closed
just yet. Java's garbage collection handles that.

This means that there might be problems with a long-running program,
or if you want to open the same file for writing further ahead.

In other words, you might want to get a reference to the file object
and close it explicitly as soon as you can unless you know that it's
ok to leave it open until the program terminates--at least if you want
to be sure that your program works as well in five years as it does now.


--
Magnus Lycka (It's really Lyckå), magnus@thinkware.se
Thinkware AB, Sweden, www.thinkware.se
I code Python ~ The Agile Programming Language=20



From silviucc@home.ro  Sat Jul  5 08:34:01 2003
From: silviucc@home.ro (Silviu Cojocaru)
Date: Sat Jul  5 07:34:01 2003
Subject: [Tutor] EOF function
In-Reply-To: <5.2.1.1.0.20030705125330.01f782a8@www.thinkware.se>
Message-ID: 

On Sat, 5 Jul 2003, Magnus Lyck=E5 wrote:

> But .readlines() reads the whole file at once, and puts it in a list.
> That might be a problem with a big file. With modern python versions,
> you can simply iterate over the file object.
>=20
> f =3D file(filename)
> for line in f:
>      print line,
> f.close()
>=20
> If you are lazy, you can simply do
>=20
> for line in file(filename):
>      print line,
>=20
> Note that each line will end with a line-feed (or whatever you
> have on your platform). That's why I end the print statement
> with a comma--do avoid double line feeds.
>=20
> Note that you don't explicitly close the file in the shorter version.
> I the current C based version of Python, I think it will be closed as
> soon as the loop ends, but the language doesn't guarantee that, and in
> the Java implementation of Python--Jython, the file might not be closed
> just yet. Java's garbage collection handles that.
>=20
> This means that there might be problems with a long-running program,
> or if you want to open the same file for writing further ahead.
>=20
> In other words, you might want to get a reference to the file object
> and close it explicitly as soon as you can unless you know that it's
> ok to leave it open until the program terminates--at least if you want
> to be sure that your program works as well in five years as it does now.

Yeah I never looked at the builtin objects . I imported "os" and used=20
readlines(). It was kinda intuitive like: "Hey where should the stuff=20
for manipulating files be? well there's no file module so lemme have a=20
look in the os module. Hey, here they are!" :)

Thanks for the pointers !

--=20
Registered Linux user #298569
This fortune is false.



From silviucc@home.ro  Sat Jul  5 10:39:01 2003
From: silviucc@home.ro (Silviu Cojocaru)
Date: Sat Jul  5 09:39:01 2003
Subject: [Tutor] OT: useless python webpage
Message-ID: 

Is this website still maintained ? I want to send solutions to a few of 
the problems in the ACM prog. contest plus a solution to one of the 
challenges posted by the site authors.

-- 
Registered Linux user #298569
I owe the government $3400 in taxes.  So I sent them two hammers and a
toilet seat.
		-- Michael McShane



From dyoo@hkn.eecs.berkeley.edu  Sat Jul  5 18:18:02 2003
From: dyoo@hkn.eecs.berkeley.edu (Danny Yoo)
Date: Sat Jul  5 17:18:02 2003
Subject: [Tutor] Memory Problem  [for loops, range(), and psyco]
In-Reply-To: <5.2.1.1.0.20030704230905.01ff3e28@www.thinkware.se>
Message-ID: 


On Fri, 4 Jul 2003, Magnus [iso-8859-1] Lyck=E5 wrote:

> At 08:02 2003-07-04 +0200, Abel Daniel wrote:
> >Magnus Lyck? wrote:
> > > If you just use xrange() instead of range(), you won't create any
> > > list, but I don't know if Python will actually release the memory
> > > used for integers, since they are interned. (That integers are
> > > interned means that if you use 42 in several different places in
> > > your code, it will always use the same integer object.)
> >Isn't this only done for small ( < 100) integers?
>
> Oh, I didn't know that. Thanks! Is that a recent change? I seem to
> remember that construction of big ranges was a problem, since the
> integers weren't garbage collected.


Hi Magnus,

The problem with big ranges had to do with the construction of the range
list itself, and not as much with the integers.


I believe that 'psyco', the Specializing Python Compiler, does optimize
range()s away if a program uses them as loop counters.  Let me see...
Ok, I found that reference:

    http://psyco.sourceforge.net/psycoguide/node27.html

Footnote 8 says that psyco will transform 'for i in range(42)' into a
standard C 'for(i=3D0;i<42;i++)' loop, and that's really cool.


Dorsey's application sounds really computational, so Dorsey may want to
look into psyco and see if it's useful.  Psyco can be found here:

    http://psyco.sourceforge.net



From idiot1@netzero.net  Sun Jul  6 00:48:01 2003
From: idiot1@netzero.net (Kirk Bailey)
Date: Sat Jul  5 23:48:01 2003
Subject: [Tutor] Autoreply wars
Message-ID: <3F079BD5.6000503@netzero.net>

AUTOREPLY WAR: Where 2+ programs which generate replies to incoming email begin talking 
to one another, and then replying to one another's replies, ad infinitum. This endless 
loop is not broken until human intervention or the exausting of the operating resources 
of one or both server systems. It is also annoying as all living hell to innicent 
bystanders on the lists in question, and is known to produce considerable flamage to the 
Luser in question upon his return to cyberspace.

There are features in TinyList to supress this sort of thing, so that people with 
idiotic vacation programs (and idiots who configure them) who subscribe to lists don't 
incurr the wrath of the list's membership. Thinking about these things, I also realized 
it is possible for the clueless to couple 2 lists together, crashing their own system- 
it rather strained my credulity to think 2 people on 2 different servers would do such a 
thing. (watch some luser come along and prove me wrong later).

SO, to test the effectiveness of my precautions, I *INTENTIONALLY* cross coupled 2 lists 
on my server, then sent in a message. It was sent out fine. NO LOOP. I sent to the other 
one. It came back fine. NO LOOP.

Were there a loop, the two lists would be talking to one another, replying to each 
other- and spewing into my constantly monitored mailbox. I had the ssh running and could 
kill an alias lickety split, if need be. It was not; the precautions worked perfectly in 
a nightmare scenario.

ME happy hacker this saterday evening. :-)
Oh- and I disassembled the coupling.  I'm daring, but I still have TRACES of sanity.
Let's see majordomo try this test...


-- 

end

Cheers!
         Kirk D Bailey
                               think
http://www.howlermonkey.net/ +-----+ http://www.tinylist.org/
http://www.listville.net/    | BOX | http://www.sacredelectron.org/
                              +-----+
"Thou art free"-ERIS          think    'Got a light?'-Promethieus

Fnord.



From spamfilter2@mupp.net  Sun Jul  6 07:34:02 2003
From: spamfilter2@mupp.net (j2)
Date: Sun Jul  6 06:34:02 2003
Subject: [Tutor] COnvert a string?
Message-ID: <0b2401c343a9$f8f90830$7800a8c0@fozzie>

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

------=_NextPart_000_0B21_01C343BA.BC4AE9B0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Ok, i am not a _total_ newbie (just almost). But i need to convert a =
string that looks a little something like this

=3D?iso-8859-1?Q?Hej=3D2C_tack_f=3DF6r_bra_team_work_p=3DE5_ndc5_i_fredag=
s_efterm?=3D
    =3D?iso-8859-1?Q?iddag!_/Rolf?=3D

into a "plain" textfile (ASCII text only, with spaces between words).=20
Any hints? I can not figure this out?
------=_NextPart_000_0B21_01C343BA.BC4AE9B0
Content-Type: text/html;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable









Ok, i am not a _total_ newbie (just =
almost). But i=20
need to convert a string that looks a little something like =
this


 


=3D?iso-8859-1?Q?Hej=3D2C_tack_f=3DF6r_bra_team_work_p=3DE5_ndc5_i_f=
redags_efterm?=3D
    =3D?iso-8859-1?Q?iddag!_/Rol=
f?=3D


 


into a "plain" textfile (ASCII text =
only, with=20
spaces between words). 


Any hints? I can not figure this=20
out?


------=_NextPart_000_0B21_01C343BA.BC4AE9B0--



From molhanec@seznam.cz  Sun Jul  6 07:56:02 2003
From: molhanec@seznam.cz (Michal Molhanec)
Date: Sun Jul  6 06:56:02 2003
Subject: [Tutor] COnvert a string?
In-Reply-To: <0b2401c343a9$f8f90830$7800a8c0@fozzie>
References: <0b2401c343a9$f8f90830$7800a8c0@fozzie>
Message-ID: <3F08000B.1030208@seznam.cz>

j2 wrote:
> Ok, i am not a _total_ newbie (just almost). But i need to convert a 
> string that looks a little something like this
>  
> =?iso-8859-1?Q?Hej=2C_tack_f=F6r_bra_team_work_p=E5_ndc5_i_fredags_efterm?=
>     =?iso-8859-1?Q?iddag!_/Rolf?=
>  
> into a "plain" textfile (ASCII text only, with spaces between words).
> Any hints? I can not figure this out?

look at decode_header function in email package
i've used:

             header_line = email.Header.decode_header(header_line)
             s = u''
             for text, charset in header_line:
                 if charset:
                     try:
                         s += text.decode(charset)
                     except:
                         s += text
                 else:
                     s += text

warning: i'm also only beginner



From spamfilter2@mupp.net  Sun Jul  6 08:18:01 2003
From: spamfilter2@mupp.net (j2)
Date: Sun Jul  6 07:18:01 2003
Subject: [Tutor] COnvert a string?
References: <0b2401c343a9$f8f90830$7800a8c0@fozzie> <3F08000B.1030208@seznam.cz>
Message-ID: <0b3501c343b0$30b21c70$7800a8c0@fozzie>

> look at decode_header function in email package
> i've used:

Ok, i did

#!/usr/bin/python2.2
import string
import email

x =
"=?iso-8859-1?Q?Hej=2C_tack_f=F6r_bra_team_work_p=E5_ndc5_i_fredags_efterm?=
=?iso-8859-1?Q?iddag!_/Rolf?="

y = email.Header.decode_header(x)
s = u''
for text, charset in header_line:
        if charset:
                try:
                        s += text.decode(charset)
                except:
                        s += text
        else:
                s += text


and i get

cookiemonster:/root/scripts# ./test.py
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "./test.py", line 15, in ?
    y = email.Header.decode_header(x)
AttributeError: 'module' object has no attribute 'Header'
cookiemonster:/root/scripts#

any hints?



From molhanec@seznam.cz  Sun Jul  6 08:23:01 2003
From: molhanec@seznam.cz (Michal Molhanec)
Date: Sun Jul  6 07:23:01 2003
Subject: [Tutor] COnvert a string?
In-Reply-To: <0b3501c343b0$30b21c70$7800a8c0@fozzie>
References: <0b2401c343a9$f8f90830$7800a8c0@fozzie> <3F08000B.1030208@seznam.cz> <0b3501c343b0$30b21c70$7800a8c0@fozzie>
Message-ID: <3F08063E.4010501@seznam.cz>

j2 wrote:
>>look at decode_header function in email package
>>i've used:
> 
> 
> Ok, i did
> 
> #!/usr/bin/python2.2
> import string
> import email

you need
import email.Header

> 
> x =
> "=?iso-8859-1?Q?Hej=2C_tack_f=F6r_bra_team_work_p=E5_ndc5_i_fredags_efterm?=
> =?iso-8859-1?Q?iddag!_/Rolf?="
> 
> y = email.Header.decode_header(x)
> s = u''
> for text, charset in header_line:

for text, charset in y:

>         if charset:
>                 try:
>                         s += text.decode(charset)
>                 except:
>                         s += text
>         else:
>                 s += text
> 



From spamfilter2@mupp.net  Sun Jul  6 08:45:01 2003
From: spamfilter2@mupp.net (j2)
Date: Sun Jul  6 07:45:01 2003
Subject: [Tutor] COnvert a string?
References: <0b2401c343a9$f8f90830$7800a8c0@fozzie> <3F08000B.1030208@seznam.cz> <0b3501c343b0$30b21c70$7800a8c0@fozzie> <3F08063E.4010501@seznam.cz>
Message-ID: <0b3d01c343b3$eb51f610$7800a8c0@fozzie>

> you need
> import email.Header

import email should impor teverything, shouldnt it?

cookiemonster:/root/scripts# ./test.py       
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "./test.py", line 5, in ?
    import email.Header
ImportError: No module named Header
cookiemonster:/root/scripts# 
cookiemonster:/root/scripts# python2.2
Python 2.2.1 (#1, Sep  7 2002, 14:34:30) 


From magnus@thinkware.se  Sun Jul  6 08:59:02 2003
From: magnus@thinkware.se (Magnus =?iso-8859-1?Q?Lyck=E5?=)
Date: Sun Jul  6 07:59:02 2003
Subject: [Tutor] COnvert a string?
In-Reply-To: <0b3d01c343b3$eb51f610$7800a8c0@fozzie>
References: <0b2401c343a9$f8f90830$7800a8c0@fozzie>
 <3F08000B.1030208@seznam.cz>
 <0b3501c343b0$30b21c70$7800a8c0@fozzie>
 <3F08063E.4010501@seznam.cz>
Message-ID: <5.2.1.1.0.20030706140230.02032040@www.thinkware.se>

At 13:44 2003-07-06 +0200, j2 wrote:
>import email should impor teverything, shouldnt it?

Nope. email is not a module, it's a package. Header is a module
in the email package.


--
Magnus Lycka (It's really Lyckå), magnus@thinkware.se
Thinkware AB, Sweden, www.thinkware.se
I code Python ~ The Agile Programming Language 



From spamfilter2@mupp.net  Sun Jul  6 09:04:02 2003
From: spamfilter2@mupp.net (j2)
Date: Sun Jul  6 08:04:02 2003
Subject: [Tutor] COnvert a string?
References: <0b2401c343a9$f8f90830$7800a8c0@fozzie> <3F08000B.1030208@seznam.cz> <0b3501c343b0$30b21c70$7800a8c0@fozzie> <3F08063E.4010501@seznam.cz> <5.2.1.1.0.20030706140230.02032040@www.thinkware.se>
Message-ID: <0b9301c343b6$a18e43f0$7800a8c0@fozzie>

> Nope. email is not a module, it's a package. Header is a module
> in the email package.

Aha, still doesnt work tho. Hjälp? :)



From molhanec@seznam.cz  Sun Jul  6 09:08:02 2003
From: molhanec@seznam.cz (Michal Molhanec)
Date: Sun Jul  6 08:08:02 2003
Subject: [Tutor] COnvert a string?
In-Reply-To: <0b3d01c343b3$eb51f610$7800a8c0@fozzie>
References: <0b2401c343a9$f8f90830$7800a8c0@fozzie> <3F08000B.1030208@seznam.cz> <0b3501c343b0$30b21c70$7800a8c0@fozzie> <3F08063E.4010501@seznam.cz> <0b3d01c343b3$eb51f610$7800a8c0@fozzie>
Message-ID: <3F081116.1090401@seznam.cz>

j2 wrote:

>>you need
>>import email.Header
> 
> 
> import email should impor teverything, shouldnt it?

it depends on how is the package's __init__.py written

> 
> cookiemonster:/root/scripts# ./test.py       
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "./test.py", line 5, in ?
>     import email.Header
> ImportError: No module named Header
> cookiemonster:/root/scripts# 
> cookiemonster:/root/scripts# python2.2
> Python 2.2.1 (#1, Sep  7 2002, 14:34:30) 

oops, sorry i forgot that email.Header is available since 2.2.2
in this case you probably have to use older packages like rfc822 package 
but i have no experience with it
(or you can download the new email package from 
http://mimelib.sourceforge.net/ )
(or update python :-) )



From dman@dman13.dyndns.org  Sun Jul  6 09:19:01 2003
From: dman@dman13.dyndns.org (Derrick 'dman' Hudson)
Date: Sun Jul  6 08:19:01 2003
Subject: [Tutor] Re: COnvert a string?
In-Reply-To: <0b2401c343a9$f8f90830$7800a8c0@fozzie>
References: <0b2401c343a9$f8f90830$7800a8c0@fozzie>
Message-ID: <20030706121833.GA18353@dman13.dyndns.org>

--7JfCtLOvnd9MIVvH
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Disposition: inline
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

On Sun, Jul 06, 2003 at 12:32:59PM +0200, j2 wrote:
| Ok, i am not a _total_ newbie (just almost). But i need to convert a stri=
ng that looks a little something like this
|=20
| =3D?iso-8859-1?Q?Hej=3D2C_tack_f=3DF6r_bra_team_work_p=3DE5_ndc5_i_fredag=
s_efterm?=3D
|     =3D?iso-8859-1?Q?iddag!_/Rolf?=3D
|=20
| into a "plain" textfile (ASCII text only, with spaces between words).=20
| Any hints? I can not figure this out?

First of all, you can't convert that string to plain ASCII unless you
are willing to lose some data.

Second of all, take a look at RFC 2047.  It explains the encoding used
in email headers for non-ASCII data.  The way that works is

 =3D?

Start of the encoded data.

 iso-8859-1

The charset.

 ?

A separator.

 Q

The encoding (quoted-printable or base64).

 ?

A separator.

 Hej=3D2C_tack_f=3DF6r_bra_team_work_p=3DE5_ndc5_i_fredags_efterm

The text.  QP uses the form '=3DXX' for all non-ASCII and various
punctuation characters where XX is the hex value of the character.
(this string becomes "Hej,_tack_f=F6r_bra_team_work_p=E5_ndc5_i_fredags_eft=
erm")

 ?=3D

The end of the encoded data.  Plain ascii data follows, or data
encoded like the previous but (probably, but not necessarily) in a
different charset.


(While a complete understanding isn't wholly necessary, the more you
know the easier it is to do your work.  Now that you know what is
going on here you can upgrade your python version to use the latest
'email' module.)

HTH,
-D

--=20
For society, it's probably a good thing that engineers value function
over appearance.  For example, you wouldn't want engineers to build
nuclear power plants that only _look_ like they would keep all the
radiation inside.
    (Scott Adams - The Dilbert principle)
=20
http://dman13.dyndns.org/~dman/

--7JfCtLOvnd9MIVvH
Content-Type: application/pgp-signature
Content-Disposition: inline

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org

iEYEARECAAYFAj8IE5kACgkQiB6vp1xAVUD/kACfd4L+FHzUjZU4MvvYjprAvaxB
MR4AmwWKePduz1EbgiCsZVcWva0gMexs
=XkLd
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

--7JfCtLOvnd9MIVvH--


From magnus@thinkware.se  Sun Jul  6 09:40:02 2003
From: magnus@thinkware.se (Magnus =?iso-8859-1?Q?Lyck=E5?=)
Date: Sun Jul  6 08:40:02 2003
Subject: [Tutor] COnvert a string?
In-Reply-To: <0b9301c343b6$a18e43f0$7800a8c0@fozzie>
References: <0b2401c343a9$f8f90830$7800a8c0@fozzie>
 <3F08000B.1030208@seznam.cz>
 <0b3501c343b0$30b21c70$7800a8c0@fozzie>
 <3F08063E.4010501@seznam.cz>
 <5.2.1.1.0.20030706140230.02032040@www.thinkware.se>
Message-ID: <5.2.1.1.0.20030706143122.00b177f8@www.thinkware.se>

At 14:03 2003-07-06 +0200, j2 wrote:
>Aha, still doesnt work tho. Hj=E4lp? :)

The code below prints the right thing for me. The last conversion
to cp850 is there to make the Swedish letters look right at a
Windows command prompt, since that still uses an ancient DOS encoding.
You don't want that if you print in a normal Windows context or run
it in a better operating system. I'm using Python 2.2.2.

--------
from email.Header import decode_header

raw_text =3D=20
"""=3D?iso-8859-1?Q?Hej=3D2C_tack_f=3DF6r_bra_team_work_p=3DE5_ndc5_i_fredag=
s_efterm?=3D
      =3D?iso-8859-1?Q?iddag!_/Rolf?=3D"""

header =3D decode_header(raw_text)

result =3D u''

for text, encoding in header:
     result +=3D text.decode(encoding)

print result.encode('cp850')
--------

As you see I'm not using the safety nets that Michal showed. They
are not needed for this particular example, but it's probably good
to have something like that. I think it's enough with just the try
block though, it will catch empty encodings, and in general I try
to avoid unqualified except clauses. I guess I'd use (untested):

for text, encoding in header:
     try:
         result +=3D text.decode(encoding)
     except (UnicodeError, ValueError):
         result +=3D text



--
Magnus Lycka (It's really Lyckå), magnus@thinkware.se
Thinkware AB, Sweden, www.thinkware.se
I code Python ~ The Agile Programming Language=20



From spamfilter2@mupp.net  Sun Jul  6 16:47:01 2003
From: spamfilter2@mupp.net (j2)
Date: Sun Jul  6 15:47:01 2003
Subject: [Tutor] More string conversions.
Message-ID: <0c9101c343f6$f6889d70$7800a8c0@fozzie>

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

------=_NextPart_000_0C8E_01C34407.B9FE5AA0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Thankyou all for the help with decoding the email headers.. Now i got =
myself another problem.

I am trying to do=20

#!/usr/bin/python2.2
import email
import email.Header

x =3D =
"=3D?iso-8859-1?Q?Hej=3D2C_tack_f=3DF6r_bra_team_work_p=3DE5_ndc5_i_freda=
gs_efterm?=3D=3D?iso-8859-1?Q?iddag!_/Rolf?=3D"

y =3D email.Header.decode_header(x)
s =3D u''
for text, charset in header_line:
        if charset:
                try:
                        s +=3D text.decode(charset)
                except:
                        s +=3D text
        else:
                s +=3D text

print y
print s

cookiemonster:~/scripts# ./test.py  =20
[('Hej, tack f\xf6r bra team work p\xe5 ndc5 i fredags eftermiddag! =
/Rolf', 'iso-8859-1')]

Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "./test.py", line 28, in ?
    print s
UnicodeError: ASCII encoding error: ordinal not in range(128)
cookiemonster:~/scripts#=20

But how could i convert the text in "y" to "plain ascii"?  
------=_NextPart_000_0C8E_01C34407.B9FE5AA0
Content-Type: text/html;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable









Thankyou all for the help with decoding =
the email=20
headers.. Now i got myself another problem.


 


I am trying to do 


 


#!/usr/bin/python2.2
import =
email
import=20
email.Header


 


x =3D=20
"=3D?iso-8859-1?Q?Hej=3D2C_tack_f=3DF6r_bra_team_work_p=3DE5_ndc5_i_freda=
gs_efterm?=3D=3D?iso-8859-1?Q?iddag!_/Rolf?=3D"


 


y =3D =
email.Header.decode_header(x)
s =3D u''
for=20
text, charset in =
header_line:
        if=20
charset:
          &=
nbsp;    =20
try:
           =
;            =
=20
s +=3D=20
text.decode(charset)
        &=
nbsp;      =20
except:
          &n=
bsp;           &nb=
sp;=20
s +=3D text
       =20
else:
          &nbs=
p;    =20
s +=3D text


print y
print s


 


cookiemonster:~/scripts# =
./test.py  =20

[('Hej, tack f\xf6r bra team work p\xe5 ndc5 i fredags eftermiddag! =
/Rolf',=20
'iso-8859-1')]


 


Traceback (most recent call =
last):
  File=20
"./test.py", line 28, in ?
    print =
s
UnicodeError: ASCII=20
encoding error: ordinal not in range(128)
cookiemonster:~/scripts#=20



 


But how could i convert the text in "y" =
to "plain=20
ascii"?  


------=_NextPart_000_0C8E_01C34407.B9FE5AA0--



From molhanec@seznam.cz  Sun Jul  6 19:38:02 2003
From: molhanec@seznam.cz (Michal Molhanec)
Date: Sun Jul  6 18:38:02 2003
Subject: [Tutor] More string conversions.
In-Reply-To: <0c9101c343f6$f6889d70$7800a8c0@fozzie>
References: <0c9101c343f6$f6889d70$7800a8c0@fozzie>
Message-ID: <3F08A49A.3020803@seznam.cz>

imho should something like:

s = s.encode('ascii', 'replace')
s = s.encode('ascii', 'ignore')

work. the first one replaces non-ascii characters with ? and the second 
simply ignores them



From magnus@thinkware.se  Sun Jul  6 19:45:02 2003
From: magnus@thinkware.se (Magnus =?iso-8859-1?Q?Lyck=E5?=)
Date: Sun Jul  6 18:45:02 2003
Subject: [Tutor] More string conversions.
In-Reply-To: <0c9101c343f6$f6889d70$7800a8c0@fozzie>
Message-ID: <5.2.1.1.0.20030706235914.01ff51b8@www.thinkware.se>

At 21:44 2003-07-06 +0200, j2 wrote:
>Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "./test.py", line 28, in ?
>     print s
>UnicodeError: ASCII encoding error: ordinal not in range(128)
>cookiemonster:~/scripts#

Your default character encoding is ASCII. That means you can't
print a unicode string containing non-ascii characters. This is
Python you know: "In the face of ambiguity, refuse the temptation
to guess." and "Explicit is better than implicit." (See "import this")

You need to tell python what encoding to use when you print the
unicode string. One way to do this is

print s.encode('iso-8859-1')

I seem to remember that there was some way to do that without
having to do .encode(encoding) for each print statement, but I
don't remember how. You can change your default encoding in
'site.py', but then your program might not work on another
computer than your own, and it might break when you upgrade
Python I guess.

After a little experimentation, I seem to have found a way...
I'm sure there is a more kosher way to do this, but my code
seems to work...

from email.Header import decode_header

raw_text = 
"""=?iso-8859-1?Q?Hej=2C_tack_f=F6r_bra_team_work_p=E5_ndc5_i_fredags_efterm?=
      =?iso-8859-1?Q?iddag!_/Rolf?="""

header = decode_header(raw_text)

result = u''

for text, encoding in header:
     result += text.decode(encoding)

# The rest is new...

import sys

class UnicodeToEncoding:
     def __init__(self, encoding, file_handle):
         self.enc = encoding
         self.f = file_handle

     def write(self, data):
         return self.f.write(data.encode(self.enc))

sys.stdout = UnicodeToEncoding('iso-8859-1', sys.stdout)

print result


--
Magnus Lycka (It's really Lyckå), magnus@thinkware.se
Thinkware AB, Sweden, www.thinkware.se
I code Python ~ The Agile Programming Language 



From jpaish@freenet.edmonton.ab.ca  Sun Jul  6 20:27:33 2003
From: jpaish@freenet.edmonton.ab.ca (Joseph Paish)
Date: Sun Jul  6 19:27:33 2003
Subject: [Tutor] updating shelved record
Message-ID: <03070617291501.01310@localhost.localdomain>

i am trying to update a file "in place" using shelve. =20

this is what i have so far, using an example i found in a book to build t=
he=20
original database in order to test ideas an my understanding of how shelv=
e=20
works :


Python 2.0 (#1, Apr 11 2001, 19:18:08)=20
[GCC 2.96 20000731 (Linux-Mandrake 8.0 2.96-0.48mdk)] on linux-i386
Type "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
IDLE 0.6 -- press F1 for help

>>> import shelve
>>> dbase =3D shelve.open("mydbase")
>>> object1 =3D ['The', 'bright', ('side', 'of'), ['life']]
>>> object2 =3D {'name': 'Brian', 'age': 33, 'motto': object1}
>>> dbase['brian'] =3D object2
>>> dbase.close()

>>> import shelve
>>> dbase =3D shelve.open("mydbase")
>>> dbase['brian']
{'age': 33, 'name': 'Brian', 'motto': ['The', 'bright', ('side', 'of'),=20
['life']]}
>>> dbase['brian']['age']
33

# okay so far

>>> dbase.close()
>>> dbase =3D shelve.open("mydbase")
>>> print dbase['brian']['age']
33

# try and change brian's age to 44
>>> dbase['brian']['age'] =3D '44'
>>> print dbase['brian']['age']
33
# no luck

# try closing and re-opening the file to force a flush and hopefully comm=
it=20
the change.
>>> dbase.close()
>>> dbase =3D shelve.open("mydbase")
>>> print dbase['brian']['age']
33

# brian still 33 years old.


i guess the question is "how can i change brian's age on disk?".  i must =
be=20
missing something very obvious.

thanks

joe

ps.  i have stripped out a lot of the IDLE session (mainly errors), but=20
nothing that impacts what i am trying to do.


From magnus@thinkware.se  Sun Jul  6 20:50:02 2003
From: magnus@thinkware.se (Magnus =?iso-8859-1?Q?Lyck=E5?=)
Date: Sun Jul  6 19:50:02 2003
Subject: [Tutor] updating shelved record
In-Reply-To: <03070617291501.01310@localhost.localdomain>
Message-ID: <5.2.1.1.0.20030707014034.02031af0@www.thinkware.se>

I've never used shelve for anything real, but I suspect
that you need to rebind dbase['brian'], like this:

brian = dbase['brian']
brian['age'] = 44
dbase['brian'] = brian

I suspect that "dbase['brian']" will return a copy of what
is in the shelve, and in your code below, you update this
copy and then throw it away, since you have no references
to it.

Do you understand what I mean? What you are doing is a bit
like doing s.upper() instead of s = s.upper() if you want
to convert a string s to upper case.

To understand what I mean you must understant the difference
between names and objects in Python.

There are probably neater alternatives to shelve. Have a
look at...
http://www-106.ibm.com/developerworks/library/l-pypers.html
and
http://www.thinkware.se/cgi-bin/thinki.cgi/PersistenceSystems

At 17:29 2003-07-06 -0600, Joseph Paish wrote:
>i am trying to update a file "in place" using shelve.
>
>this is what i have so far, using an example i found in a book to build the
>original database in order to test ideas an my understanding of how shelve
>works :
>
>
>Python 2.0 (#1, Apr 11 2001, 19:18:08)
>[GCC 2.96 20000731 (Linux-Mandrake 8.0 2.96-0.48mdk)] on linux-i386
>Type "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>IDLE 0.6 -- press F1 for help
>
> >>> import shelve
> >>> dbase = shelve.open("mydbase")
> >>> object1 = ['The', 'bright', ('side', 'of'), ['life']]
> >>> object2 = {'name': 'Brian', 'age': 33, 'motto': object1}
> >>> dbase['brian'] = object2
> >>> dbase.close()
>
> >>> import shelve
> >>> dbase = shelve.open("mydbase")
> >>> dbase['brian']
>{'age': 33, 'name': 'Brian', 'motto': ['The', 'bright', ('side', 'of'),
>['life']]}
> >>> dbase['brian']['age']
>33
>
># okay so far
>
> >>> dbase.close()
> >>> dbase = shelve.open("mydbase")
> >>> print dbase['brian']['age']
>33
>
># try and change brian's age to 44
> >>> dbase['brian']['age'] = '44'
> >>> print dbase['brian']['age']
>33
># no luck
>
># try closing and re-opening the file to force a flush and hopefully commit
>the change.
> >>> dbase.close()
> >>> dbase = shelve.open("mydbase")
> >>> print dbase['brian']['age']
>33
>
># brian still 33 years old.
>
>
>i guess the question is "how can i change brian's age on disk?".  i must be
>missing something very obvious.
>
>thanks
>
>joe
>
>ps.  i have stripped out a lot of the IDLE session (mainly errors), but
>nothing that impacts what i am trying to do.
>
>_______________________________________________
>Tutor maillist  -  Tutor@python.org
>http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor

--
Magnus Lycka (It's really Lyckå), magnus@thinkware.se
Thinkware AB, Sweden, www.thinkware.se
I code Python ~ The Agile Programming Language 



From jpaish@freenet.edmonton.ab.ca  Sun Jul  6 20:54:02 2003
From: jpaish@freenet.edmonton.ab.ca (Joseph Paish)
Date: Sun Jul  6 19:54:02 2003
Subject: [Tutor] updating shelved record
In-Reply-To: <03070617291501.01310@localhost.localdomain>
References: <03070617291501.01310@localhost.localdomain>
Message-ID: <03070617570802.01310@localhost.localdomain>

On Sunday 06 July 2003 17:29, you wrote:
> i am trying to update a file "in place" using shelve.
>
> this is what i have so far, using an example i found in a book to build=
 the
> original database in order to test ideas an my understanding of how she=
lve
> works :
>
>
> Python 2.0 (#1, Apr 11 2001, 19:18:08)
> [GCC 2.96 20000731 (Linux-Mandrake 8.0 2.96-0.48mdk)] on linux-i386
> Type "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
> IDLE 0.6 -- press F1 for help
>
> >>> import shelve
> >>> dbase =3D shelve.open("mydbase")
> >>> object1 =3D ['The', 'bright', ('side', 'of'), ['life']]
> >>> object2 =3D {'name': 'Brian', 'age': 33, 'motto': object1}
> >>> dbase['brian'] =3D object2
> >>> dbase.close()
> >>>
> >>> import shelve
> >>> dbase =3D shelve.open("mydbase")
> >>> dbase['brian']
>
> {'age': 33, 'name': 'Brian', 'motto': ['The', 'bright', ('side', 'of'),
> ['life']]}
>
> >>> dbase['brian']['age']
>
> 33
>
> # okay so far
>
> >>> dbase.close()
> >>> dbase =3D shelve.open("mydbase")
> >>> print dbase['brian']['age']
>
> 33
>
> # try and change brian's age to 44
>
> >>> dbase['brian']['age'] =3D '44'
> >>> print dbase['brian']['age']
>
> 33
> # no luck
>
> # try closing and re-opening the file to force a flush and hopefully co=
mmit
> the change.
>
> >>> dbase.close()
> >>> dbase =3D shelve.open("mydbase")
> >>> print dbase['brian']['age']
>
> 33
>
> # brian still 33 years old.
>
>
> i guess the question is "how can i change brian's age on disk?".  i mus=
t be
> missing something very obvious.
>
> thanks
>
> joe
>
> ps.  i have stripped out a lot of the IDLE session (mainly errors), but
> nothing that impacts what i am trying to do.
>
> _______________________________________________
> Tutor maillist  -  Tutor@python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor


never mind.

found the answer almost immediately after posting the question, though i=20
swear i looked for at least an hour before asking on this mailing list.

anyway, the solution :

item =3D dbase['brian']
item ['age'] =3D 44
dbase['brian'] =3D item

sorry for the wasted bandwidth.

joe



From magnus@thinkware.se  Sun Jul  6 21:55:01 2003
From: magnus@thinkware.se (Magnus =?iso-8859-1?Q?Lyck=E5?=)
Date: Sun Jul  6 20:55:01 2003
Subject: [Tutor] updating shelved record
In-Reply-To: <03070617570802.01310@localhost.localdomain>
References: <03070617291501.01310@localhost.localdomain>
 <03070617291501.01310@localhost.localdomain>
Message-ID: <5.2.1.1.0.20030707021121.0203ae48@www.thinkware.se>

At 17:57 2003-07-06 -0600, Joseph Paish wrote:
>never mind.
>
>found the answer almost immediately after posting the question, though i
>swear i looked for at least an hour before asking on this mailing list.
>
>anyway, the solution :
>
>item = dbase['brian']
>item ['age'] = 44
>dbase['brian'] = item
>
>sorry for the wasted bandwidth.

You're not wasting bandwidth. This is not obvious, and I'm sure
you're neither the first nor the last to fall into this trap. We
might say that shelve isn't behaving quite as one would expect
it to behave. Our expectations that it will act as a persistent
dictionary (which is a fair assumption) makes us draw the wrong
conclusion.

To understand what happens, we must really understand the
implementation of shelve.

When you do x[y], this will be translated into x.__getitem__(y).
In a dictionary, this function call will return a reference
to the object that dictionary x has a reference to under the
key y. If x[y] is modified, as in x[y][z] = 42, it will be the
object that dict x has keyed y to that is updated, so the
next call to x[y] will show the new value.

If I understand correctly, shelves use a simple database (dbm-
style) that stores strings keyed by other strings, and it uses
pickle, the standard python module for turning an arbitrary object
into a string.

This means that the dictionary object in your "dbase['brian']"
doesn't exist in your string. So, it's impossible for
dbase.__getitem__('brian') to simply return a reference to an
existing object, in this case a dictionary.

It's not so easy to make it work smarter than this if our aim
is that shelve is to be a light and simple module that keeps a
dbm file updated and keeps memory usage small.

When we do "dbase[key] = somehing" we will call
"dbase.__setitem__(key, something)" and that's a convenient
time to update the underlying database.

if we do "dbase[key][subkey] = 42" this will turn into
"dbase.__getitem__(key).__setitem__(subkey, 42)".

The shelve object, dbase, will only see a call to __getitem__
which is just the same as if someone would just try to read
the value of dbase[key]. There is no way dbase can see that
we are trying to update the shelve. __getitem__ returns a
dict object, and an ordinary dict object has no concept of
being a component inside a shelve, so it won't "report" its
update to dbase, so dbase can't be aware that it needs to
be updated.

After all, if

dbase['brian']['age'] = 42

would lead to a database change, then

x = dbase['brian']
x['age'] = 42

should do the same. I can't see how this could work.

It would certainly be possible to make a replacement to shelve
that brought in objects into memory when they were requested,
and kept a reference to each unpickled object inside itself so
that we wouldn't need to rebind it as Joseph showed above, but
it would use much more memory if many items in the database
were updated during a program run, and it could (as far as I
can see) only update the database file through specific save()
calls, and/or on close(). It would be quite different from shelve,
with much larger memory usage and no instant reflection of changes
to the disk.

To make it even smarter, something much more complex such as the
object database in Zope, ZODB, would be needed. Even ZODB has
problems with mutable objects such as dictionaries...


--
Magnus Lycka (It's really Lyckå), magnus@thinkware.se
Thinkware AB, Sweden, www.thinkware.se
I code Python ~ The Agile Programming Language 



From spamfilter2@mupp.net  Mon Jul  7 04:44:02 2003
From: spamfilter2@mupp.net (j2)
Date: Mon Jul  7 03:44:02 2003
Subject: [Tutor] More string conversions.
In-Reply-To: <5.2.1.1.0.20030706235914.01ff51b8@www.thinkware.se>
References: <5.2.1.1.0.20030706235914.01ff51b8@www.thinkware.se>
Message-ID: <1057563813.3f0924a5f090b@www.mupp.net>

Quoting Magnus Lyckå :

> You need to tell python what encoding to use when you print the
> unicode string. One way to do this is

Thankyou. I used your code and it does what i want. But, uhm, all of a sudden 
my mySQL-segfaults. Can ANYONE offer any light on what might cause that? 

Ill include my source, and a strace... i cant figure it out, it only segfaults 
with a string that HAS been converted, a "non-encoded" string goes straight 
through...


cookiemonster:~/scripts# cat mail2sms.py
#!/usr/bin/python2.2

dbhost = "localhost"
dbuser = "gnokii"
dbpwd = "Hn7fg5F(nonotreally)"
dbdb = "gnokii-smsd"

import time
import os
import sys
import MySQLdb
import string
import smtplib
import email
import time
from MySQLdb.constants import FIELD_TYPE
import email.Header
from email.Header import decode_header

def concat_tuple (var):
# Rutin för att slå ihop tuples till en sträng
    text = ""
    for y in var:
        text = text + " " + y
    return text

def selectAllMessages ():
# Hämtar alla meddelanden som inte är processade från databasen,
        db = MySQLdb.connect(host=dbhost, user=dbuser, passwd=dbpwd, db=dbdb)
        cursor = db.cursor()
        cursor.execute("""select * from inbox where processed ='0'""")
        foo = cursor.fetchall()
        db.commit()
        return foo    


def matchPrefix (number):
#Routine to determine if the number is a swedish cell number
#If the leftmost 4 characters match, return true
        if not str(number)[0:4] == "+467":
                print "False match"
                return 0
        else:
                print "True Match"
                return 1

def setSuccess (id):
        db = MySQLdb.connect(host=dbhost, user=dbuser, passwd=dbpwd, db=dbdb)
        cursor = db.cursor()
        cursor.execute("""update inbox set processed ='1' where id = %s""", 
(id,))
        foo = cursor.fetchall()
        db.commit()
        return foo

def sendSMS (number, text):
        db = MySQLdb.connect(host=dbhost, user=dbuser, passwd=dbpwd, db=dbdb)
        cursor = db.cursor()
        cursor.execute("""insert into outbox (number, text) values(%s, %s)""", 
(number, text,))
        foo = cursor.fetchall()
        db.commit()
        return foo

def updateTracker (sender, receiver):
        db = MySQLdb.connect(host=dbhost, user=dbuser, passwd=dbpwd, db=dbdb)
        cursor = db.cursor()
        cursor.execute("""insert into tracker (sender, receiver) values(%s, %
s)""", (sender, receiver,))
        foo = cursor.fetchall()
        db.commit()
        return foo

def sendEmail (to, sender, msg):
        try:
                server = smtplib.SMTP('localhost')
                server.sendmail(sender, to, msg)
                server.quit()
                success = 1
        except:
                success = 0
        return success

class UnicodeToEncoding:
        def __init__(self, encoding, file_handle):
                self.enc = encoding
                self.f = file_handle

        def write(self, data):
                return self.f.write(data.encode(self.enc))


receiver = sys.argv[1]
message = concat_tuple(sys.argv[3:])
sender = sys.argv[2]


print "Receiver: "+receiver
print "message: "+message
print "sender: "+sender

if str(receiver)[0:4] == "+467":
#       print "true match"

#Konvertera meddelandet
#       Bryt ut text och encoding
        convertedMessage = decode_header(message)
        message = u''
#
#       Slå ihop texten
        for text, encoding in convertedMessage:
#
#               Om vi har någon encoding, använd den. Annars slå bara ihop 
texten.
                if encoding:
                        message += text.decode(encoding)
                else:
                        message += text
#
#       Välj teckentabell
        sys.stdout = UnicodeToEncoding('iso-8859-1', sys.stdout)
#
#       Skicka SMS, och uppdatera databasen.
        print message
        print len(message)
        sendSMS(receiver, message)
        updateTracker(sender, receiver)
else:
        print "false match"
#       sendEmail(sender, "klkj", "Det där var inte ett svenskt nummer")
cookiemonster:~/scripts# 


read(3, "\177ELF\1\1\1\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\3\0\3\0\1\0\0\0(\35\0\000"..., 1024) 
= 1024
fstat64(3, {st_mode=S_IFREG|0644, st_size=32204, ...}) = 0
old_mmap(NULL, 35584, PROT_READ|PROT_EXEC, MAP_PRIVATE, 3, 0) = 0x4037a000
mprotect(0x40382000, 2816, PROT_NONE)   = 0
old_mmap(0x40382000, 4096, PROT_READ|PROT_WRITE, MAP_PRIVATE|MAP_FIXED, 3, 
0x7000) = 0x40382000
close(3)                                = 0
munmap(0x40376000, 13668)               = 0
open("/etc/services", O_RDONLY)         = 3
fcntl64(3, F_GETFD)                     = 0
fcntl64(3, F_SETFD, FD_CLOEXEC)         = 0
fstat64(3, {st_mode=S_IFREG|0644, st_size=16127, ...}) = 0
old_mmap(NULL, 4096, PROT_READ|PROT_WRITE, MAP_PRIVATE|MAP_ANONYMOUS, -1, 0) = 
0x40376000
read(3, "# /etc/services:\n# $Id: services"..., 4096) = 4096
read(3, "209/udp\t\t\t\t# The Quick Mail Tran"..., 4096) = 4096
read(3, "CM SC-104 IANA 1/29/99\nrtcm-sc10"..., 4096) = 4096
close(3)                                = 0
munmap(0x40376000, 4096)                = 0
rt_sigaction(SIGPIPE, {SIG_IGN}, {SIG_IGN}, 8) = 0
socket(PF_UNIX, SOCK_STREAM, 0)         = 3
fcntl64(3, F_GETFL)                     = 0x2 (flags O_RDWR)
connect(3, {sin_family=AF_UNIX, path="/var/run/mysqld/mysqld.sock"}, 110) = 0
brk(0)                                  = 0x8222000
brk(0x8224000)                          = 0x8224000
setsockopt(3, SOL_IP, IP_TOS, [8], 4)   = -1 EOPNOTSUPP (Operation not 
supported)
setsockopt(3, SOL_SOCKET, SO_KEEPALIVE, [1], 4) = 0
read(3, ",\0\0\0", 4)                   = 4
read(3, "\n3.23.49-log\0QS\0\0-l\\dcDic\0, \10\2\0\0"..., 44) = 44
open("/usr/share/mysql/charsets/Index", O_RDONLY|O_LARGEFILE) = 4
fstat64(4, {st_mode=S_IFREG|0644, st_size=549, ...}) = 0
old_mmap(NULL, 4096, PROT_READ|PROT_WRITE, MAP_PRIVATE|MAP_ANONYMOUS, -1, 0) = 
0x40376000
read(4, "# sql/share/charsets/Index\n#\n# T"..., 4096) = 549
brk(0)                                  = 0x8224000
brk(0x8225000)                          = 0x8225000
read(4, "", 4096)                       = 0
close(4)                                = 0
munmap(0x40376000, 4096)                = 0
write(3, " \0\0\1\215 \0\0\0gnokii\0V\\YZGF]M\0gnokii-"..., 36) = 36
read(3, "\5\0\0\2", 4)                  = 4
read(3, "\0\0\0\2\0", 5)                = 5
--- SIGSEGV (Segmentation fault) ---
+++ killed by SIGSEGV +++
cookiemonster:/root/scripts# 

-------------------------------------------------
This mail sent through IMP: http://horde.org/imp/


From spamfilter2@mupp.net  Mon Jul  7 07:05:02 2003
From: spamfilter2@mupp.net (j2)
Date: Mon Jul  7 06:05:02 2003
Subject: [Tutor] More string conversions.
In-Reply-To: <1057563813.3f0924a5f090b@www.mupp.net>
References: <5.2.1.1.0.20030706235914.01ff51b8@www.thinkware.se> <1057563813.3f0924a5f090b@www.mupp.net>
Message-ID: <1057572281.3f0945b98a09c@www.mupp.net>

Quoting j2 :

Please ignore my segfault. I am so sorry, but i had a version missmatch 
between Python and Python-mysqldb

Everything works like i want.. (well, like i have coded anyway).

Thankyou all.

-------------------------------------------------
This mail sent through IMP: http://horde.org/imp/


From camartin@snet.net  Mon Jul  7 13:23:02 2003
From: camartin@snet.net (Cliff Martin)
Date: Mon Jul  7 12:23:02 2003
Subject: [Tutor] open file form
Message-ID: <3F0999EF.4060709@snet.net>

Hi,

A few days ago I asked for some help with an ASCII file. It was a large 
file which I needed to read all the data into a file. (It's an 
interferometry file so I can't manipulate it line by line, especially if 
I want to fit it to orthogonal poynomials).  I got help back (thanks 
dman and Rick Pasotto) but in one case someone used a form for opening a 
file like:

f = 3D file(filename)

then manipulated the opened file using 3D. etc.  When I tried this it 
didn't work.  Then today on a completely different question I saw the 
same form again.  What is this form? I can't seem to find it in the 
doc's and the following is what I get when I try it.  Thanks in advance 
for the help.

f =3D file('c:/transfer/doctst.txt')
Traceback (  File "", line 1
    f =3D file('c:/transfer/doctst.txt')
        ^
SyntaxError: invalid syntax

Cliff




From dyoo@hkn.eecs.berkeley.edu  Mon Jul  7 13:38:02 2003
From: dyoo@hkn.eecs.berkeley.edu (Danny Yoo)
Date: Mon Jul  7 12:38:02 2003
Subject: [Tutor] open file form
In-Reply-To: <3F0999EF.4060709@snet.net>
Message-ID: 


On Mon, 7 Jul 2003, Cliff Martin wrote:

> A few days ago I asked for some help with an ASCII file. It was a large
> file which I needed to read all the data into a file. (It's an
> interferometry file so I can't manipulate it line by line, especially if
> I want to fit it to orthogonal poynomials).  I got help back (thanks
> dman and Rick Pasotto) but in one case someone used a form for opening a
> file like:
>
> f = 3D file(filename)
>
> then manipulated the opened file using 3D. etc.  When I tried this it
> didn't work.  Then today on a completely different question I saw the
> same form again.  What is this form? I can't seem to find it in the
> doc's and the following is what I get when I try it.  Thanks in advance
> for the help.
>
> f =3D file('c:/transfer/doctst.txt')
> Traceback (  File "", line 1
>     f =3D file('c:/transfer/doctst.txt')
>         ^
> SyntaxError: invalid syntax

Hi Cliff,


There appears to have been some kind of quotation bug in someone's email
client.  The line should have been:

     f = file('c:/transfer/doctst.txt')



By the way, let me check something... What does 3D stand for?  It looks
like some kind of hexidecimal constant.

###
>>> 0x3d
61
>>> chr(61)
'='
###


Ah.  I see now.  What happened was that, somehow in the email
transmission, the '=' character got quote-escaped into the sequence '=3d'.


Hope this helps!



From DORSEY_EDMUND_K@LILLY.COM  Mon Jul  7 13:40:03 2003
From: DORSEY_EDMUND_K@LILLY.COM (DORSEY_EDMUND_K@LILLY.COM)
Date: Mon Jul  7 12:40:03 2003
Subject: [Tutor] Memory Problem Continued
Message-ID: 

This is a multipart message in MIME format.
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Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Previously I was having a memory problem and it was pointed out that the 
range function is quite the memory hog and to use xrange instead. 
Unfortunately this didn't solve the problem (though it did fix a problem 
that I would have probably encountered later with larger data sets)  I 
don't like just pasting code into my email but I'm afraid it's the only 
way I can explain the problem.  So here it goes.  When I start up the 
program and it loads the data set it uses up a fixed amount of memory.  As 
the subvoxelize function shown below continues to run (takes about 5 
minutes before crashing) the memory usage just keeps increasing at a 
constant rate until I run out of memory. 

    def subvoxelize(self, progressFunc=None):
        value = 0
        updateNum = self._numVoxelsOrig/100
        for n in xrange(self._numVoxelsOrig):   #self._numVoxelsOrig has a 
value of around 20 million
            x, y, z = self.to3d(n)                                  #not 
causing any problems with memory
            x2, y2, z2 = x*2, y*2, z*2 
            index0 = x2      + y2*self._newXsize     + z2 * (self._newXY)  
#here is where the problem is and with the subsequent assignments
            index1 = x2+1 + y2*self._newXsize     + z2 * (self._newXY)
            index2 = x2      + (y2+1)*self._newXsize + z2 * (self._newXY)
            index3 = x2+1 + (y2+1)*self._newXsize + z2 * (self._newXY)
            index4 = x2      + y2*self._newXsize     + (z2+1) * 
(self._newXY)
            index5 = x2+1 + y2*self._newXsize     + (z2+1) * (self._newXY)
            index6 = x2      + (y2+1)*self._newXsize + (z2+1) * 
(self._newXY)
            index7 = x2+1 + (y2+1)*self._newXsize + (z2+1) * (self._newXY) 
 #if I don't do these assignments and make each index go to a constant it 
doesn't leak memory
            self._newData[index0] = self._data[n]
            self._newData[index1] = self._data[n]
            self._newData[index2] = self._data[n]
            self._newData[index3] = self._data[n]
            self._newData[index4] = self._data[n]
            self._newData[index5] = self._data[n]
            self._newData[index6] = self._data[n]
            self._newData[index7] = self._data[n]
            if n % updateNum == 0:
                progressFunc(value)
                value = value+1
        return self._newData


That is my function.  I have narrowed the problem down to where I assign 
values to index 0 through 7. 
If I just assign those values to some constant ie. 0 it doesn't eat up my 
memory.  (shown below)

index0 = 0
index1 =0
index2 = 0 ....  #doing this works

Does anyone have any idea why I would be "leaking" memory?? The above 
algorithm works fine with smaller data sets and even does what I want it 
to do but anything large and it uses up all the memory and dies.  Thank 
you for any advice. ~Ed


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Previously I was having a memory problem and it was pointed out that the range function is quite the memory hog and to use xrange instead.  Unfortunately this didn't solve the problem (though it did fix a problem that I would have probably encountered later with larger data sets)  I don't like just pasting code into my email but I'm afraid it's the only way I can explain the problem.  So here it goes.  When I start up the program and it loads the data set it uses up a fixed amount of memory.  As the subvoxelize function shown below continues to run (takes about 5 minutes before crashing) the memory usage just keeps increasing at a constant rate until I run out of memory.  



    def subvoxelize(self, progressFunc=None):

        value = 0

        updateNum = self._numVoxelsOrig/100

        for n in xrange(self._numVoxelsOrig):   #self._numVoxelsOrig has a value of around 20 million

            x, y, z = self.to3d(n)                                  #not causing any problems with memory

            x2, y2, z2 = x*2, y*2, z*2  

            index0 = x2      + y2*self._newXsize     + z2 * (self._newXY)   #here is where the problem is and with the subsequent assignments

            index1 = x2+1 + y2*self._newXsize     + z2 * (self._newXY)

            index2 = x2      + (y2+1)*self._newXsize + z2 * (self._newXY)

            index3 = x2+1 + (y2+1)*self._newXsize + z2 * (self._newXY)

            index4 = x2      + y2*self._newXsize     + (z2+1) * (self._newXY)

            index5 = x2+1 + y2*self._newXsize     + (z2+1) * (self._newXY)

            index6 = x2      + (y2+1)*self._newXsize + (z2+1) * (self._newXY)

            index7 = x2+1 + (y2+1)*self._newXsize + (z2+1) * (self._newXY)  #if I don't do these assignments and make each index go to a constant it doesn't leak memory

            self._newData[index0] = self._data[n]

            self._newData[index1] = self._data[n]

            self._newData[index2] = self._data[n]

            self._newData[index3] = self._data[n]

            self._newData[index4] = self._data[n]

            self._newData[index5] = self._data[n]

            self._newData[index6] = self._data[n]

            self._newData[index7] = self._data[n]

            if n % updateNum == 0:

                progressFunc(value)

                value = value+1

        return self._newData





That is my function.  I have narrowed the problem down to where I assign values to index 0 through 7.  

If I just assign those values to some constant ie. 0 it doesn't eat up my memory.  (shown below)



index0 = 0

index1 =0

index2 = 0 ....  #doing this works



Does anyone have any idea why I would be "leaking" memory?? The above algorithm works fine with smaller data sets and even does what I want it to do but anything large and it uses up all the memory and dies.  Thank you for any advice. ~Ed




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From DORSEY_EDMUND_K@LILLY.COM  Mon Jul  7 15:20:07 2003
From: DORSEY_EDMUND_K@LILLY.COM (DORSEY_EDMUND_K@LILLY.COM)
Date: Mon Jul  7 14:20:07 2003
Subject: [Tutor] Memory Problem Continued
Message-ID: 

This is a multipart message in MIME format.
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Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

I did a little more testing and I realized I'm having a different problem. 
 The problem seems to be in assinging data to each index.  Calculating the 
indices doesn't eat any memory.  Sorry about that. 
Each call self._newData[index] = self._data[n] eats up some memory. 

Prior to this function I initialized self._newData by saying

newData = [0] * self._numVoxelsOrig

Then I proceeded to fill up newData.  Everytime I put something into a 
different index it uses up some more memory.  Any ideas as why it would do 
this??

Thanks for any advice. 




Previously I was having a memory problem and it was pointed out that the 
range function is quite the memory hog and to use xrange instead. 
Unfortunately this didn't solve the problem (though it did fix a problem 
that I would have probably encountered later with larger data sets)  I 
don't like just pasting code into my email but I'm afraid it's the only 
way I can explain the problem.  So here it goes.  When I start up the 
program and it loads the data set it uses up a fixed amount of memory.  As 
the subvoxelize function shown below continues to run (takes about 5 
minutes before crashing) the memory usage just keeps increasing at a 
constant rate until I run out of memory.   

    def subvoxelize(self, progressFunc=None): 
        value = 0 
        updateNum = self._numVoxelsOrig/100 
        for n in xrange(self._numVoxelsOrig):   #self._numVoxelsOrig has a 
value of around 20 million 
            x, y, z = self.to3d(n)                                  #not 
causing any problems with memory 
            x2, y2, z2 = x*2, y*2, z*2   
            index0 = x2      + y2*self._newXsize     + z2 * (self._newXY)  

            index1 = x2+1 + y2*self._newXsize     + z2 * (self._newXY) 
            index2 = x2      + (y2+1)*self._newXsize + z2 * (self._newXY) 
            index3 = x2+1 + (y2+1)*self._newXsize + z2 * (self._newXY) 
            index4 = x2      + y2*self._newXsize     + (z2+1) * 
(self._newXY) 
            index5 = x2+1 + y2*self._newXsize     + (z2+1) * (self._newXY) 
            index6 = x2      + (y2+1)*self._newXsize + (z2+1) * 
(self._newXY) 
            index7 = x2+1 + (y2+1)*self._newXsize + (z2+1) * (self._newXY) 
 
            self._newData[index0] = self._data[n]   #the problem is here  Each of these calls seems to eat up memory
            self._newData[index1] = self._data[n] 
            self._newData[index2] = self._data[n] 
            self._newData[index3] = self._data[n] 
            self._newData[index4] = self._data[n] 
            self._newData[index5] = self._data[n] 
            self._newData[index6] = self._data[n] 
            self._newData[index7] = self._data[n] 
            if n % updateNum == 0: 
                progressFunc(value) 
                value = value+1 
        return self._newData 


That is my function.  I have narrowed the problem down to where I assign 
values to index 0 through 7.   
If I just assign those values to some constant ie. 0 it doesn't eat up my 
memory.  (shown below) 

index0 = 0 
index1 =0 
index2 = 0 ....  #doing this works 

Does anyone have any idea why I would be "leaking" memory?? The above 
algorithm works fine with smaller data sets and even does what I want it 
to do but anything large and it uses up all the memory and dies.  Thank 
you for any advice. ~Ed 



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I did a little more testing and I realized I'm having a different problem.  The problem seems to be in assinging data to each index.  Calculating the indices doesn't eat any memory.  Sorry about that. 

Each call self._newData[index] = self._data[n] eats up some memory.  



Prior to this function I initialized self._newData by saying



newData = [0] * self._numVoxelsOrig



Then I proceeded to fill up newData.  Everytime I put something into a different index it uses up some more memory.  Any ideas as why it would do this??



Thanks for any advice. 









Previously I was having a memory problem and it was pointed out that the range function is quite the memory hog and to use xrange instead.  Unfortunately this didn't solve the problem (though it did fix a problem that I would have probably encountered later with larger data sets)  I don't like just pasting code into my email but I'm afraid it's the only way I can explain the problem.  So here it goes.  When I start up the program and it loads the data set it uses up a fixed amount of memory.  As the subvoxelize function shown below continues to run (takes about 5 minutes before crashing) the memory usage just keeps increasing at a constant rate until I run out of memory.   



    def subvoxelize(self, progressFunc=None): 

        value = 0 

        updateNum = self._numVoxelsOrig/100 

        for n in xrange(self._numVoxelsOrig):   #self._numVoxelsOrig has a value of around 20 million 

            x, y, z = self.to3d(n)                                  #not causing any problems with memory 

            x2, y2, z2 = x*2, y*2, z*2   

            index0 = x2      + y2*self._newXsize     + z2 * (self._newXY)   

            index1 = x2+1 + y2*self._newXsize     + z2 * (self._newXY) 

            index2 = x2      + (y2+1)*self._newXsize + z2 * (self._newXY) 

            index3 = x2+1 + (y2+1)*self._newXsize + z2 * (self._newXY) 

            index4 = x2      + y2*self._newXsize     + (z2+1) * (self._newXY) 

            index5 = x2+1 + y2*self._newXsize     + (z2+1) * (self._newXY) 

            index6 = x2      + (y2+1)*self._newXsize + (z2+1) * (self._newXY) 

            index7 = x2+1 + (y2+1)*self._newXsize + (z2+1) * (self._newXY)  

            self._newData[index0] = self._data[n]   #the problem is here  Each of these calls seems to eat up memory

            self._newData[index1] = self._data[n] 

            self._newData[index2] = self._data[n] 

            self._newData[index3] = self._data[n] 

            self._newData[index4] = self._data[n] 

            self._newData[index5] = self._data[n] 

            self._newData[index6] = self._data[n] 

            self._newData[index7] = self._data[n] 

            if n % updateNum == 0: 

                progressFunc(value) 

                value = value+1 

        return self._newData 





That is my function.  I have narrowed the problem down to where I assign values to index 0 through 7.   

If I just assign those values to some constant ie. 0 it doesn't eat up my memory.  (shown below) 



index0 = 0 

index1 =0 

index2 = 0 ....  #doing this works 



Does anyone have any idea why I would be "leaking" memory?? The above algorithm works fine with smaller data sets and even does what I want it to do but anything large and it uses up all the memory and dies.  Thank you for any advice. ~Ed 






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From dyoo@hkn.eecs.berkeley.edu  Mon Jul  7 15:58:06 2003
From: dyoo@hkn.eecs.berkeley.edu (Danny Yoo)
Date: Mon Jul  7 14:58:06 2003
Subject: [Tutor] Memory Problem Continued
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 


On Mon, 7 Jul 2003 DORSEY_EDMUND_K@LILLY.COM wrote:

> I did a little more testing and I realized I'm having a different problem.
>  The problem seems to be in assinging data to each index.  Calculating the
> indices doesn't eat any memory.  Sorry about that.
> Each call self._newData[index] = self._data[n] eats up some memory.

Hi Dorsey,


Sure; the problem is that keeping the values in memory is what's eating
your memory.  *grin*

Python's numbers are objects --- this is important, because each new
integer or floating-point number will take up a little more space than you
might expect.



> Prior to this function I initialized self._newData by saying
>
> newData = [0] * self._numVoxelsOrig
>
> Then I proceeded to fill up newData.  Everytime I put something into a
> different index it uses up some more memory.  Any ideas as why it would
> do this??


Out of curiosity: how large is _numVoxelsOrig?

> #self._numVoxelsOrig has a value of around 20 million

Since your vector of numers is very large, you may want to try saving
space by using a more "homogenous" data structure, like the vector and
matrix data types provided by the Numeric Python project.  numpy's matrix
classes are optimized to hold numbers efficiently.

    http://pfdubois.com/numpy/

Modifying the code to use numpy should be fairly nonintrusive: I think all
you need to do is modify the initialization of newData, perhaps like this:

    newData = Numeric.zeros(self._numVoxelsOrig)

Just wondering: do you expect your newData to be very sparse, or will most
of your values be nonzero?

Good luck to you!



From DORSEY_EDMUND_K@LILLY.COM  Mon Jul  7 16:21:06 2003
From: DORSEY_EDMUND_K@LILLY.COM (DORSEY_EDMUND_K@LILLY.COM)
Date: Mon Jul  7 15:21:06 2003
Subject: [Tutor] Memory Problem Solved
Message-ID: 

This is a multipart message in MIME format.
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Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

I fixed the memory problem and just wanted to share the solution just in 
case anyone else runs across the problem in the future.

I used the array module (not numeric's array) 

I chose to use this array module because it has the tofile and fromfile 
methods which are extremely useful and fast for reading and writing huge 
data sets.  Thus the first lesson is that when working with datasets of a 
single type use arrays and not lists.

The second problem was in how I initialized my array.  If you are using 
Numeric.array you can use the ones or zeros methods.  However the normal 
array module does not include these.  My first attempt to initialize my 
array was this

a = array('h')
a = [0] * arraySize

The problem here is that it just turns a into a list and it's no longer an 
array and thus becomes inefficient again.  (real dumb mistake on my part) 
Instead do this

a = array('h', [0] * arraySize)

Everything works.  Thanks for all the help. ~Ed


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I fixed the memory problem and just wanted to share the solution just in case anyone else runs across the problem in the future.



I used the array module (not numeric's array) 



I chose to use this array module because it has the tofile and fromfile methods which are extremely useful and fast for reading and writing huge data sets.  Thus the first lesson is that when working with datasets of a single type use arrays and not lists.



The second problem was in how I initialized my array.  If you are using Numeric.array you can use the ones or zeros methods.  However the normal array module does not include these.  My first attempt to initialize my array was this



a = array('h')

a = [0] * arraySize



The problem here is that it just turns a into a list and it's no longer an array and thus becomes inefficient again.  (real dumb mistake on my part) Instead do this



a = array('h', [0] * arraySize)



Everything works.  Thanks for all the help. ~Ed




--=_alternative 006A3A0C05256D5C_=--


From hader@planet.nl  Mon Jul  7 18:53:01 2003
From: hader@planet.nl (Huib)
Date: Mon Jul  7 17:53:01 2003
Subject: [Tutor] Database and Python
Message-ID: <000b01c343aa$6b66b3e0$78203d50@borah>

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

--Boundary_(ID_jNPM2qVTTB9v9lTQzfVtrg)
Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT

Hello,

I am trying to learn Python. Have been busy with other languages as well such as TAS and Delphi. But unfortunately I am blocked at the stage that I can not come through. I have worked through the book Programming in Python 2nd edition. I would like to go a bit faster without getting a lot information, which at this stage is not required for my goals. I would like to make a programma for a databass with details of customers, with all the normal information such as names, adresses, telephone nrs., etc. Furtheron I would like to make a programm where I can combine these details with actions we are doing.

I would like to have some advise. If I would start at databeses etc. Would I be able to make such a programm. 

Are there applications whihc make if easier to develop forms etc?

I konw that I have to work to understand and being able to programm  but for me it would make it easier if I can make some usefull programms quickly without all the "Hello world" examples. 

Perhaps I want to get my goals to quick but I am learning better with acutally creating something usefull than all (crap)programms. Of which I know I need to know the bases but do not anything I need.

Thank in advance for your comments.

Hugo

--Boundary_(ID_jNPM2qVTTB9v9lTQzfVtrg)
Content-type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT









Hello,


 


I am trying to learn Python. Have been busy 
with other languages as well such as TAS and Delphi. But unfortunately I am 
blocked at the stage that I can not come through. I have worked through the book 
Programming in Python 2nd edition. I would like to go a bit faster without 
getting a lot information, which at this stage is not required for my goals. I 
would like to make a programma for a databass with details of customers, with 
all the normal information such as names, adresses, telephone nrs., etc. 
Furtheron I would like to make a programm where I can combine these details with 
actions we are doing.


 


I would like to have some advise. If I would 
start at databeses etc. Would I be able to make such a programm. 


 


Are there applications whihc make if easier 
to develop forms etc?


 


I konw that I have to work to understand and 
being able to programm  but for me it would make it easier if I can make 
some usefull programms quickly without all the "Hello world" examples. 



 


Perhaps I want to get my goals to quick but 
I am learning better with acutally creating something usefull than all 
(crap)programms. Of which I know I need to know the bases but do not anything I 
need.


 


Thank in advance for your 
comments.


 


Hugo


--Boundary_(ID_jNPM2qVTTB9v9lTQzfVtrg)--


From dyoo@hkn.eecs.berkeley.edu  Mon Jul  7 19:16:01 2003
From: dyoo@hkn.eecs.berkeley.edu (Danny Yoo)
Date: Mon Jul  7 18:16:01 2003
Subject: [Tutor] Database and Python
In-Reply-To: <000b01c343aa$6b66b3e0$78203d50@borah>
Message-ID: 


On Sun, 6 Jul 2003, Huib wrote:

> I am trying to learn Python. Have been busy with other languages as well
> such as TAS and Delphi.

Hi Hugo,


It sounds like you're already pretty familiar with programming.  Have you
looked at the Official Tutorial yet?  It's at:

    http://www.python.org/doc/tut/

It goes quick, and you should be able to pick up enough fundamentals there
to get some work done.



> I can not come through. I have worked through the book Programming in
> Python 2nd edition.

Programming Python is meant as a leisurely, in-depth tour through the
language: it's probably the last thing you want to read if you are in a
hurry.  Go for the official tutorial link above, and you'll probably be
happier with its pacing.


You can find an introduction to Python and database stuff in:

    http://www.amk.ca/python/writing/DB-API.html

and there's more material in the Database Topic Guide:

    http://python.org/topics/database/


Please feel free to ask questions as you go through the tutorials; we'll
be happy to help.



From magnus@thinkware.se  Mon Jul  7 21:53:02 2003
From: magnus@thinkware.se (Magnus =?iso-8859-1?Q?Lyck=E5?=)
Date: Mon Jul  7 20:53:02 2003
Subject: [Tutor] open file form
In-Reply-To: <3F0999EF.4060709@snet.net>
Message-ID: <5.2.1.1.0.20030708025317.01f6a7c8@www.thinkware.se>

At 12:03 2003-07-07 -0400, Cliff Martin wrote:
>but in one case someone used a form for opening a file like:
>
>f = 3D file(filename)

See http://www.freesoft.org/CIE/RFC/1521/6.htm for an explanation.
This has nothing to do with Python.

It's sad that email is still so brittle that it often breaks as
soon as someone dares to include a non-ASCII character somewhere
in an email. Particularly mailing list digests usually stink!

I hope a real unicode revolution will come soon.


--
Magnus Lycka (It's really Lyckå), magnus@thinkware.se
Thinkware AB, Sweden, www.thinkware.se
I code Python ~ The Agile Programming Language 



From idiot1@netzero.net  Mon Jul  7 22:22:02 2003
From: idiot1@netzero.net (Kirk Bailey)
Date: Mon Jul  7 21:22:02 2003
Subject: [Tutor] software quest
Message-ID: <3F0A058F.8020600@netzero.net>

I am looking for a good FREE ftp client for win95/98; anyone got a url for a good one?

-- 

end

Cheers!
         Kirk D Bailey
                               think
http://www.howlermonkey.net/ +-----+ http://www.tinylist.org/
http://www.listville.net/    | BOX | http://www.sacredelectron.org/
                              +-----+
"Thou art free"-ERIS          think    'Got a light?'-Promethieus

Fnord.




From idiot1@netzero.net  Mon Jul  7 22:49:07 2003
From: idiot1@netzero.net (Kirk Bailey)
Date: Mon Jul  7 21:49:07 2003
Subject: [Tutor] is it a right choice?
References: <20030703024420.GA1522@linux.local>
Message-ID: <3F0A22A5.3090006@netzero.net>

payal, I started learning FreeBSD, and began hammering sh/bourne shell scripting into my 
concrete skull (brains of gold, skull of feroconcrete), and I wanted to write some 
scripts. Language of choice appeared to be perl. Tried, bounced. Tried again, bounced. 
Sigh. then I discovered python. And this list.

I took off like wildfire. I kept annoying my other half with the phrase 'this is too 
easy...', and asked a huge number of questions   here, and searched the docs on the site 
like mad.

And I wrote some useful real world software. in 7 weeks. I went from ZERO to working 
list server #1.

I am not bragging. I am using myself as an example of how this language is easy to 
learn, flexible, and powerful. I still find perl a puzzle. But I love my python.

And the snake charmers here are all friendly, and we love Monty Pythonistic humor, and 
never a  bad pun.

So if you are thinking of becoming a snakecharmer, come on in!


Payal Rathod wrote:
> Hi,
> Before I venture in the python infested world, I want to ask whether I
> am making a right choice by taking python as my first programming
> language. I cannot program in C, C++ or Java etc. I can *just* do little
> shell scripting.
> My objective in learning a better language is that I have huge log files
> in my office and get many logs files from friends who are sytem admins.
> I love to analyse those files and find out browing habits of my compnay
> (from squid logs), most number of mails sent to a domain ( like
> hotmail), number of bytes data transferred thru' http, pop3 and smtp
> etc. I prefer to write my own programs to do these things.
> With rudimentary shell scripting knowledge analysing log files which are
> many times over 200Mb is difficult so I was seeking a language which can
> do these tasks beautifully without getting too much involved in
> underlying concepts.
> Am I looking for Python? Is Perl easier to learn for a newbie than
> python? Is it OK to continue with Python?
> 
> Also can Python produce binary programs like perl (perlcc)?
> 
> Thanks,
> With warm regards,
> -Payal
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 


-- 

end

Cheers!
         Kirk D Bailey
                               think
http://www.howlermonkey.net/ +-----+ http://www.tinylist.org/
http://www.listville.net/    | BOX | http://www.sacredelectron.org/
                              +-----+
"Thou art free"-ERIS          think    'Got a light?'-Promethieus

Fnord.



From shalehperry@comcast.net  Tue Jul  8 00:02:02 2003
From: shalehperry@comcast.net (Sean 'Shaleh' Perry)
Date: Mon Jul  7 23:02:02 2003
Subject: [Tutor] software quest
In-Reply-To: <3F0A058F.8020600@netzero.net>
References: <3F0A058F.8020600@netzero.net>
Message-ID: <200307072000.31825.shalehperry@comcast.net>

On Monday 07 July 2003 16:43, Kirk Bailey wrote:
> I am looking for a good FREE ftp client for win95/98; anyone got a url for
> a good one?

I assume you have looked at tucows?

Of course, you could always code one up in Python (-:  The ftplib module is 
VERY  easy to use.



From fredm@smartypantsco.com  Tue Jul  8 03:53:02 2003
From: fredm@smartypantsco.com (Alfred Milgrom)
Date: Tue Jul  8 02:53:02 2003
Subject: [Tutor] software quest
In-Reply-To: <3F0A058F.8020600@netzero.net>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20030708163917.043219c0@192.168.1.1>

At 07:43 PM 7/07/03 -0400, Kirk Bailey wrote:
>I am looking for a good FREE ftp client for win95/98; anyone got a url for 
>a good one?

I have used WS_FTP LE with no problems. You can download it from
http://download.com.com/3000-2160-1572132.html?tag=lst-0-1

The info there says: "This version is available free to government 
employees, non-commercial home users, and students and staff of educational 
institutions"

HTH
Fred Milgrom



From magnus@thinkware.se  Tue Jul  8 06:15:47 2003
From: magnus@thinkware.se (Magnus =?iso-8859-1?Q?Lyck=E5?=)
Date: Tue Jul  8 05:15:47 2003
Subject: [Tutor] software quest
In-Reply-To: <200307072000.31825.shalehperry@comcast.net>
References: <3F0A058F.8020600@netzero.net>
 <3F0A058F.8020600@netzero.net>
Message-ID: <5.2.1.1.0.20030708100623.02052538@www.thinkware.se>

At 20:00 2003-07-07 -0700, Sean 'Shaleh' Perry wrote:
>The ftplib module is VERY easy to use.

Do you think so? I always felt it was more complicated than
it had to be, and that the docs have too few examples.

In my opinion, it's more written from the perspective of
implementing RFC 959 http://www.faqs.org/rfcs/rfc959.html
in a logical way than to make it easy for normal FTP users
to upload and download files in a simple way from a script.

Typical FTP users don't know things know of things like
RETR and NLST. On the other hand, I guess a lot of current
FTP users only know how to use a GUI FTP client, so making
an API that is more like the traditional FTP client, and
let you do things like 'get', 'mget', 'put' and 'mput'
might not be intuitive for everybody either...




--
Magnus Lycka (It's really Lyckå), magnus@thinkware.se
Thinkware AB, Sweden, www.thinkware.se
I code Python ~ The Agile Programming Language 



From molhanec@seznam.cz  Tue Jul  8 08:25:07 2003
From: molhanec@seznam.cz (Michal Molhanec)
Date: Tue Jul  8 07:25:07 2003
Subject: [Tutor] software quest
In-Reply-To: <3F0A058F.8020600@netzero.net>
References: <3F0A058F.8020600@netzero.net>
Message-ID: <3F0AA9FF.5000300@seznam.cz>

Kirk Bailey wrote:

> I am looking for a good FREE ftp client for win95/98; anyone got a url 
> for a good one?

FileZilla http://filezilla.sourceforge.net/
LeechFTP http://stud.fh-heilbronn.de/~jdebis/leechftp/downloads.html






From decibelshelp@charter.net  Tue Jul  8 12:08:04 2003
From: decibelshelp@charter.net (Decibels)
Date: Tue Jul  8 11:08:04 2003
Subject: [Tutor] Font sizes and DOS
Message-ID: <200307081007.37520.decibelshelp@charter.net>

I have written a program in Linux, that my brother wants to play with. He
only has MS Windows though. It works fine in Windows, the problem is 
'font sizes' .   Stupid Dos window changes size when you change font
sizing and doesn't allow you to just do one or the other. 
The program is just python with command line input right now, not using
gui or Tk,...

Is there any way in python to decrease the font sizes or will Dos just
display in the fonts it choses and take no regard to font sizes in the program
even if it is possible?

Thanks,
Dave



From cybersamurai@mac.com  Tue Jul  8 13:56:20 2003
From: cybersamurai@mac.com (Luiz Siqueira Neto)
Date: Tue Jul  8 12:56:20 2003
Subject: [Tutor] "*" and "**"
Message-ID: <3F0AF7B4.9040604@mac.com>

What this "*" and "**" mean on python in this situation:

---
def __init__(*args, **ar)
---



From glingl@aon.at  Tue Jul  8 14:18:04 2003
From: glingl@aon.at (Gregor Lingl)
Date: Tue Jul  8 13:18:04 2003
Subject: [Tutor] "*" and "**"
References: <3F0AF7B4.9040604@mac.com>
Message-ID: <3F0AFD19.1030106@aon.at>

Luiz Siqueira Neto schrieb:

> What this "*" and "**" mean on python in this situation:
>
> ---
> def __init__(*args, **ar)
> ---


This means, that you can pass an arbitrary number of positional
arguments to the function/method, which are collected in a tuple
named args ...
... and an arbitrary number of keyword-arguments, which are collected
in a dictionary called ar, or usually kwargs, as in the following example:

 >>> def fun(*args, **kwargs):
    print "args:", args
    print "kwargs:", kwargs

   
 >>> fun(1, "be", [1,2,3], now=1, more="yep", then={1:"a",2:"be"})
args: (1, 'be', [1, 2, 3])
kwargs: {'then': {1: 'a', 2: 'be'}, 'now': 1, 'more': 'yep'}
 >>>

hth
Gregor

>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Tutor maillist  -  Tutor@python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor
>
>






From tpc@csua.berkeley.edu  Tue Jul  8 14:42:23 2003
From: tpc@csua.berkeley.edu (tpc@csua.berkeley.edu)
Date: Tue Jul  8 13:42:23 2003
Subject: [Tutor] newbie re question
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <20030708103605.U6571-100000@localhost.name>

hi Danny,

ah yes, I have seen Ping at various parties (and wearing a PythonLabs
shirt no less!).  But I digress.  I am still confused why you provided for
a negative lookahead.  I looked at amk's definition of a negative lookahead,
and it seems to say the regex will not match if the negative lookahead
condition is met.  So:

>>> testsearch = re.compile('tetsuro(?!hello)', re.IGNORECASE)
>>> testsearch.search('tetsurohello')
>>> testsearch.search('hitetsuroone')
<_sre.SRE_Match object at 0x860e4a0>

Now in the case of:

>>> myre = re.compile(r'http://[\w\.-]+\.?(?![\w.-/])')

you are looking for 'http://' then one or more word characters, periods
and hyphens, and an optional period and then a negative lookahead of a
word character, any character, a hyphen and a forward slash.  Granted,
your regex may have been sloppy example and you might have meant a
negative lookahead of a word character, a period, a hyphen and a forward
slash.  I still do not understand why you provided for one, and if you had
a good reason, why the sfgate url would match at all, since you clearly
had a word character, period, or hyphen following the set of characters
you were allowing for, including the optional period.  Here is an example
of something similar that perplexes:

>>> testsearch = re.compile(r'tetsuro\.?(?!hello)', re.IGNORECASE)
>>> testsearch.search('tetsurohello')
>>> testsearch.search('tetsuro.hello')
<_sre.SRE_Match object at 0x8612028>
>>> match = testsearch.search('tetsuro.hello')
>>> match.group()
'tetsuro'
>>> match = testsearch.search('tetsuro..hello')
>>> match.group()
'tetsuro.'

Why wasn't the first period caught ?

On Mon, 30 Jun 2003, Danny Yoo wrote:

>
>
> On Mon, 30 Jun 2003 tpc@csua.berkeley.edu wrote:
>
> > hi Danny, I had a question about your quick intro to Python lesson sheet
> > you gave out back in March 2001.
>
> Hi tpc,
>
>
>
> Some things will never die.  *grin*
>
>
>
> > The last page talks about formulating a regular expression to handle
> > URLs, and you have the following:
> >
> > myre = re.compile(r'http://[\w\.-/]+\.?(?![\w.-/])')
>
>
>
> Ok.  Let's split that up using verbose notation:
>
>
> ###
> myre = re.compile(r'''http://            ## protocol
>                       [\w\.-/]+          ## followed by a bunch of "word"
>                                          ## characters
>
>                       \.?                ## followed by an optional
>                                          ## period.
>
>                       (?!                ## Topped with a negative
>                                          ## lookahead for
>                             [\w.-/]      ## "word" character.
>
>                       )''', re.VERBOSE)
> ###
>
>
> The page:
>
>     http://www.python.org/doc/lib/re-syntax.html
>
> has more details about some of the regular expression syntax.  AMK has
> written a nice regex HOWTO here:
>
>     http://www.amk.ca/python/howto/regex/regex.html
>
> which you might find useful.
>
>
>
>
> > I understand \w stands for any word character, and \. means escaped
> > period, and ? means zero or one instances of a character or set.  I did
> > a myre.search('http://www.hotmail.com') which yielded a result, but I am
> > confused as to why
> >
> > myre.search('http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/gate/archive/2003/06/29/gavin29.DTL')
> >
> > would work, since there is a '=' and you don't provide for one in the
> > regular expression.
>
>
> Very true.  It should, however, match against the negative lookahead ---
> the regex tries to look ahead to see that it can match something like:
>
>     "This is an url: http://python.org.  Isn't that neat?"
>
>
> The negative lookup should match right here:
>
>     "This is an url: http://python.org.  Isn't that neat?"
>                                        ^
>
> In your url above, the negative lookahead should actually hit the question
> mark first before it sees '='.  That regex was a sloppy example; I should
> have been more careful with it, but I was in a hurry when I wrote that
> intro...  *grin*
>
>
>
> If you're in the Berkeley area, by the way, you might want to see if
> Ka-Ping Yee is planning another CS 198 class in the future:
>
>     http://zesty.ca/bc/info.html
>
>
>
>
>
> Anyway, we can experiment with this more easily by introducing a group
> into the regular expression:
>
> ###
> myre = re.compile(r'''
>                     (                  ## group 1
>
>                       http://            ## protocol
>                       [\w\.-/]+          ## followed by a bunch of "word"
>                                          ## characters
>
>                       \.?                ## followed by an optional
>                                          ## period.
>
>                     )                  ## end group
>
>
>                       (?!                ## Topped with a negative
>                                          ## lookahead for
>                             [\w.-/]      ## "word" character.
>
>                       )''', re.VERBOSE)
> ###
>
>
>
> Let's check it now:
>
> ###
> >>> match =
> myre.search('http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/gate/archive/2003/06/29/gavin29.DTL')
> >>> match.group(1)
> 'http://www.sfgate.com/cgi'
> ###
>
>
>
> Oiii!  The regular expression is broken.  What has happened is that I've
> incorrectly defined the hyphen in the character group.  That is, instead
> of
>
>
>     [\w\.-/]+
>
>
> I should have done:
>
>     [\w./-]+
>
>
> instead, to keep the regex engine from treating the hyphen as a span of
> characters (like "[a-z]", or "[0-9]").  You can then introduce the other
> characters into the "word" character class, and then it should correctly
> match the sfgate url.
>
>
>
> I hope this helps!
>
>



From ckasso@sprynet.com  Tue Jul  8 15:09:01 2003
From: ckasso@sprynet.com (Chris Kassopulo)
Date: Tue Jul  8 14:09:01 2003
Subject: [Tutor] Python textbook draft
Message-ID: <20030708143905.1361a45c.ckasso@sprynet.com>

Greetings,

I started reading through this draft for a book on
learning to program with python.  It is written in
classic textbook style and covers some subjects not
covered too well in most tutorials.  There are many
case studies and exercises.  I thought I would share
the link since it is definately worth the read.

http://mcsp.wartburg.edu/zelle/PythonCS1_Draft.pdf

Chris


From ckasso@sprynet.com  Tue Jul  8 15:09:08 2003
From: ckasso@sprynet.com (Chris Kassopulo)
Date: Tue Jul  8 14:09:08 2003
Subject: [Tutor] basic import question
Message-ID: <20030708143915.5f0e225e.ckasso@sprynet.com>

Greetings,

A very basic question occurred to me:

def main():
    print "hello world"
main() 

If "import mymain" runs mymain completely from the
top down, why doesn't this run twice, once for the
import and once for the call ?

>>> import mymain
hello world
>>> 

Chris


From tpc@csua.berkeley.edu  Tue Jul  8 15:16:01 2003
From: tpc@csua.berkeley.edu (tpc@csua.berkeley.edu)
Date: Tue Jul  8 14:16:01 2003
Subject: [Tutor] basic import question
In-Reply-To: <20030708143915.5f0e225e.ckasso@sprynet.com>
Message-ID: <20030708111413.V7146-100000@localhost.name>

I am a beginner, but I will hazard because your call is outside the scope
of the function definition ?

On Tue, 8 Jul 2003, Chris Kassopulo wrote:

> Greetings,
>
> A very basic question occurred to me:
>
> def main():
>     print "hello world"
> main()
>
> If "import mymain" runs mymain completely from the
> top down, why doesn't this run twice, once for the
> import and once for the call ?
>
> >>> import mymain
> hello world
> >>>
>
> Chris
>
> _______________________________________________
> Tutor maillist  -  Tutor@python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor
>



From hall@ouhep1.nhn.ou.edu  Tue Jul  8 15:31:02 2003
From: hall@ouhep1.nhn.ou.edu (Isaac Hall)
Date: Tue Jul  8 14:31:02 2003
Subject: [Tutor] basic import question
In-Reply-To: <20030708143915.5f0e225e.ckasso@sprynet.com>
Message-ID: 

the reason that this does not run twice is precisely because import runs 
the imported module from the top down.  In your case, importing mymain 
defines a function called main, then executes the call to that function.  
the function could then be called again by executing mymain.main()

Ike

On Tue, 8 Jul 2003, Chris Kassopulo wrote:

> Greetings,
> 
> A very basic question occurred to me:
> 
> def main():
>     print "hello world"
> main() 
> 
> If "import mymain" runs mymain completely from the
> top down, why doesn't this run twice, once for the
> import and once for the call ?
> 
> >>> import mymain
> hello world
> >>> 
> 
> Chris
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Tutor maillist  -  Tutor@python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor
> 

-- 



From patterner@rocketmail.com  Tue Jul  8 15:31:10 2003
From: patterner@rocketmail.com (Chris Readle)
Date: Tue Jul  8 14:31:10 2003
Subject: [Tutor] "*" and "**"
In-Reply-To: <3F0AFD19.1030106@aon.at>
Message-ID: <20030708183023.69506.qmail@web40609.mail.yahoo.com>

One little gotcha here that I've run into is that the positional args have
to come before the keyword args.  So the function call as Gregor wrote it:

fun(1, "be", [1,2,3], now=1, more="yep", then={1:"a",2:"be"})

would work, but something like:

fun(more="yep", 1, "be", [1,2,3], now=1, then={1:"a",2:"be"})

would not.

chris

--- Gregor Lingl  wrote:
> Luiz Siqueira Neto schrieb:
> 
> > What this "*" and "**" mean on python in this situation:
> >
> > ---
> > def __init__(*args, **ar)
> > ---
> 
> 
> This means, that you can pass an arbitrary number of positional
> arguments to the function/method, which are collected in a tuple
> named args ...
> ... and an arbitrary number of keyword-arguments, which are collected
> in a dictionary called ar, or usually kwargs, as in the following
> example:
> 
>  >>> def fun(*args, **kwargs):
>     print "args:", args
>     print "kwargs:", kwargs
> 
>    
>  >>> fun(1, "be", [1,2,3], now=1, more="yep", then={1:"a",2:"be"})
> args: (1, 'be', [1, 2, 3])
> kwargs: {'then': {1: 'a', 2: 'be'}, 'now': 1, 'more': 'yep'}
>  >>>
> 
> hth
> Gregor
> 
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Tutor maillist  -  Tutor@python.org
> > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor
> >
> >
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Tutor maillist  -  Tutor@python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor


__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month!
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From patterner@rocketmail.com  Tue Jul  8 15:36:20 2003
From: patterner@rocketmail.com (Chris Readle)
Date: Tue Jul  8 14:36:20 2003
Subject: [Tutor] basic import question
In-Reply-To: <20030708143915.5f0e225e.ckasso@sprynet.com>
Message-ID: <20030708183432.52404.qmail@web40605.mail.yahoo.com>

I'm stilla newb myself so this may not be correct, but my understanding of
import was that the act of importing does not, imply a call to the
imported function (or functions).  Put another way, if you're importing an
object that has several methods, you certainly wouldn't want the import to
assume that you wished to call *all* of the methods, but rather you'd
import the functionality of the object and then make calls to the various
methods.

chris

--- Chris Kassopulo  wrote:
> Greetings,
> 
> A very basic question occurred to me:
> 
> def main():
>     print "hello world"
> main() 
> 
> If "import mymain" runs mymain completely from the
> top down, why doesn't this run twice, once for the
> import and once for the call ?
> 
> >>> import mymain
> hello world
> >>> 
> 
> Chris
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Tutor maillist  -  Tutor@python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor


__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month!
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From jeff@ccvcorp.com  Tue Jul  8 15:43:02 2003
From: jeff@ccvcorp.com (Jeff Shannon)
Date: Tue Jul  8 14:43:02 2003
Subject: [Tutor] Font sizes and DOS
References: <200307081007.37520.decibelshelp@charter.net>
Message-ID: <3F0B10BB.9000208@ccvcorp.com>

Decibels wrote:

>I have written a program in Linux, that my brother wants to play with. He
>only has MS Windows though. It works fine in Windows, the problem is 
>'font sizes' .   Stupid Dos window changes size when you change font
>sizing and doesn't allow you to just do one or the other. 
>The program is just python with command line input right now, not using
>gui or Tk,...
>
>Is there any way in python to decrease the font sizes or will Dos just
>display in the fonts it choses and take no regard to font sizes in the program
>even if it is possible?
>

DOS has no concept of fonts or font sizes.  A DOS window will always be 
80 characters across and 24 lines tall.  (Actually, it *is* possible to 
coerce DOS into using up to 132 characters across and up to 50 lines 
vertically, by deliberately mismatching certain video mode settings, but 
this is *not* a standard thing, nor would I recommend it.  If you need 
more than the standard text mode, you're almost certainly better writing 
a GUI...)

So there really isn't a practical way of doing what you want -- DOS just 
isn't built that way.  Depending on *why* you want that, though (i.e., 
what you want to accomplish with a different font size), there may be 
some fairly simple way to work around the limitations...

Jeff Shannon
Technician/Programmer
Credit International




From jeff@ccvcorp.com  Tue Jul  8 15:53:01 2003
From: jeff@ccvcorp.com (Jeff Shannon)
Date: Tue Jul  8 14:53:01 2003
Subject: [Tutor] basic import question
References: <20030708143915.5f0e225e.ckasso@sprynet.com>
Message-ID: <3F0B12DE.10906@ccvcorp.com>

Chris Kassopulo wrote:

>def main():
>    print "hello world"
>main() 
>
>If "import mymain" runs mymain completely from the
>top down, why doesn't this run twice, once for the
>import and once for the call ?
>

Why does "hello world" only print once?  Because you're only telling it 
to print once...  Defining a function does not run the code that the 
function contains, only calling a function does.  

There's two code blocks in this file.  (Any line followed by a series of 
further-indented lines can be seen as a code block.)  Everything in the 
block that starts "def main():" is processed to create a function 
object, which is bound to the name "main", but it does *not* get 
executed at the time that it's defined.  The second code block consists 
of the single statement "main()", which then executes the function 
object that was previously created.

Hope that makes a bit more sense now...

Jeff Shannon
Technician/Programmer
Credit International




From lsloan@umich.edu  Tue Jul  8 16:41:02 2003
From: lsloan@umich.edu (Lance E Sloan)
Date: Tue Jul  8 15:41:02 2003
Subject: [Tutor] using regular expressions
Message-ID: <7668798.1057678807@141-213-238-90.umnet.umich.edu>

I've converted a program from Perl that processes output from Whois 
servers.  Where the Perl code had read:

  if(/Parent:\s+(\S+)/) {
    [use $1 here]
    ...
  }

I translated it to this Python code:

  if ( re.search( r'Parent:\s+(\S+)', line ) ):
    val = re.match( r'Parent:\s+(\S+)', line ).group( 1 )
    [use val here]
    ...

The program's not terribly slow, but I feel bad about the inefficiency of 
using the same regex twice.  I tried this Perl-like code, but Python didn't 
like it:

  if ( ( matches = re.search( r'Parent:\s+(\S+)', line ) ) ):
    val = matches.group( 1 )
    [use val here]
    ...

I get a SyntaxError at the equal-sign.

What's the proper Pythonish way to do this?

--
Lance E Sloan
U-M WATS: Web Applications, Technologies, and Solutions
Full-service web and database design, development, and hosting.
http://websvcs.itd.umich.edu/ - "Putting U on the Web"



From alan.gauld@blueyonder.co.uk  Tue Jul  8 16:52:02 2003
From: alan.gauld@blueyonder.co.uk (Alan Gauld)
Date: Tue Jul  8 15:52:02 2003
Subject: [Tutor] Font sizes and DOS
References: <200307081007.37520.decibelshelp@charter.net>
Message-ID: <003301c3457b$d4e5cdb0$6401a8c0@xp>

> Is there any way in python to decrease the font sizes or will Dos
just
> display in the fonts it choses and take no regard to font sizes in
the program
> even if it is possible?

The problem is that DOS windows are a fixed number of characters
wide, not a fixed width. Thus if the font gets bigger so does the
window.

You can change the size of the window by altering the number of
characters displayed from the default of 80 to, say 90 or 100.
Then you can resize the window to reflect the change. This is
done through the properties dialog/layout tab.

HTH,

Alan G
Author of the Learn to Program web tutor
http://www.freenetpages.co.uk/hp/alan.gauld



From dyoo@hkn.eecs.berkeley.edu  Tue Jul  8 16:56:20 2003
From: dyoo@hkn.eecs.berkeley.edu (Danny Yoo)
Date: Tue Jul  8 15:56:20 2003
Subject: [Tutor] using regular expressions
In-Reply-To: <7668798.1057678807@141-213-238-90.umnet.umich.edu>
Message-ID: 


On Tue, 8 Jul 2003, Lance E Sloan wrote:

> I tried this Perl-like code, but Python didn't like it:
>
>   if ( ( matches = re.search( r'Parent:\s+(\S+)', line ) ) ):
>     val = matches.group( 1 )
>     [use val here]
>     ...
>
> I get a SyntaxError at the equal-sign.
>
> What's the proper Pythonish way to do this?


Hi Lance,


One way to say it is:

###
    match = re.search( r'Parent:\s+(\S+)', line )
    if match:
        val = match.group( 1 )
    ...
###

This is a line longer than the Perl version.  Python's syntax treats
assignment as a standalone "statement" rather than an "expression", so the
assignment needs to go on a separate line.


If we really want to maintain line count, we can use Alex Martelli's
"Assign and Test" Cookbook recipe:

    http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Cookbook/Python/Recipe/66061


Hope this helps!



From magnus@thinkware.se  Tue Jul  8 17:54:05 2003
From: magnus@thinkware.se (Magnus =?iso-8859-1?Q?Lyck=E5?=)
Date: Tue Jul  8 16:54:05 2003
Subject: [Tutor] basic import question
In-Reply-To: <20030708143915.5f0e225e.ckasso@sprynet.com>
Message-ID: <5.2.1.1.0.20030708225704.020229a0@www.thinkware.se>

At 14:39 2003-07-08 -0400, Chris Kassopulo wrote:
>If "import mymain" runs mymain completely from the
>top down, why doesn't this run twice, once for the
>import and once for the call ?

Do you understand why it's only run once if you
just execute the program instead of importing it?

If so, what made you think importing it would make
it behave differently?


--
Magnus Lycka (It's really Lyckå), magnus@thinkware.se
Thinkware AB, Sweden, www.thinkware.se
I code Python ~ The Agile Programming Language 



From magnus@thinkware.se  Tue Jul  8 18:05:02 2003
From: magnus@thinkware.se (Magnus =?iso-8859-1?Q?Lyck=E5?=)
Date: Tue Jul  8 17:05:02 2003
Subject: [Tutor] using regular expressions
In-Reply-To: <7668798.1057678807@141-213-238-90.umnet.umich.edu>
Message-ID: <5.2.1.1.0.20030708230016.0205e0d0@www.thinkware.se>

At 15:40 2003-07-08 -0400, Lance E Sloan wrote:
>I've converted a program from Perl that processes output from Whois servers.

Good Python program often look very different than Perl
programs that do the same thing. The kind of line-by-line
conversion you seem to be doing here will probably not lead
to the smartest Python solution, and you might get a much
better suggestion on what to do if you show some more code,
or tell us a bit more about what you really want to do.


--
Magnus Lycka (It's really Lyckå), magnus@thinkware.se
Thinkware AB, Sweden, www.thinkware.se
I code Python ~ The Agile Programming Language 



From sigurd@12move.de  Tue Jul  8 18:05:09 2003
From: sigurd@12move.de (Karl =?iso-8859-1?q?Pfl=E4sterer?=)
Date: Tue Jul  8 17:05:09 2003
Subject: [Tutor] using regular expressions
In-Reply-To: <7668798.1057678807@141-213-238-90.umnet.umich.edu> (Lance E.
 Sloan's message of "Tue, 08 Jul 2003 15:40:07 -0400")
References: <7668798.1057678807@141-213-238-90.umnet.umich.edu>
Message-ID: 

On  8 Jul 2003, Lance E Sloan <- lsloan@umich.edu wrote:

> I've converted a program from Perl that processes output from Whois
> servers.  Where the Perl code had read:

>   if(/Parent:\s+(\S+)/) {
>     [use $1 here]
>     ...
>   }

> I translated it to this Python code:

>   if ( re.search( r'Parent:\s+(\S+)', line ) ):
>     val = re.match( r'Parent:\s+(\S+)', line ).group( 1 )
>     [use val here]
>     ...

> The program's not terribly slow, but I feel bad about the inefficiency
> of using the same regex twice.  I tried this Perl-like code, but
> Python didn't like it:

>   if ( ( matches = re.search( r'Parent:\s+(\S+)', line ) ) ):
>     val = matches.group( 1 )
>     [use val here]
>     ...

> I get a SyntaxError at the equal-sign.

Right.  Python is not eg. C.  Assignment is in Python a statement not an
expression so it can't be written in an if statement.

> What's the proper Pythonish way to do this?

In python you can compile your regexp.  That gives faster results.  Then
it is often better to use a `try ...except' block instead of `if ...' if
you do the search in a loop.

import re
reg = re.compile(r'Parent:\s+(\S+)')
match = reg.search(line)
if match:
    val = match.group(1)


If you iterate over the lines you could write it like that:

import re
reg = re.compile(r'Parent:\s+(\S+)')
for line in output:
    match = reg.search(line)
    try:
        val = match.group(1)
        .
        .
        .
    except AttributeError:
        pass


   Karl
-- 
    'Twas brillig, and the slithy toves
        Did gyre and gimble in the wabe;
    All mimsy were the borogoves,
         And the mome raths outgrabe.   "Lewis Carroll" "Jabberwocky"



From magnus@thinkware.se  Tue Jul  8 18:17:16 2003
From: magnus@thinkware.se (Magnus =?iso-8859-1?Q?Lyck=E5?=)
Date: Tue Jul  8 17:17:16 2003
Subject: [Tutor] "*" and "**"
In-Reply-To: <3F0AFD19.1030106@aon.at>
References: <3F0AF7B4.9040604@mac.com>
Message-ID: <5.2.1.1.0.20030708230931.073c29b0@www.thinkware.se>

You should also note that you can use it the other way around
in modern versions of Python. I.e., you can use *x and **y not
only when you define functions, but also when you call them. This
means that the builtin apply function is getting close to retirement...

Example with just *args:

 >>> def printCalls(f, argsList):
...     for args in argsList:
...             print f(*args)
...
 >>> import math
 >>> printCalls(math.sin, [(0,), (1,), (math.pi/2,)])
0.0
0.841470984808
1.0
 >>> import operator
 >>> printCalls(operator.add, [(1,2), (3,4), (5,6)])
3
7
11

I.e., if args = (1,2) and kwags = {a:3}, f(*args, **kwargs)
will be equivalent with f(1, 2, a=3 ). Note that this is
very different than f(args, kwargs) which would be the
same as f((1,2), {a:3}). In the first call, we call with
three arguments, all integers. In the second case, we call
with two arguments, the first a tuple and the second a dict.

At 19:19 2003-07-08 +0200, Gregor Lingl wrote:
>Luiz Siqueira Neto schrieb:
>
>>What this "*" and "**" mean on python in this situation:
>>
>>---
>>def __init__(*args, **ar)
>>---
>
>
>This means, that you can pass an arbitrary number of positional
>arguments to the function/method, which are collected in a tuple
>named args ...
>... and an arbitrary number of keyword-arguments, which are collected
>in a dictionary called ar, or usually kwargs, as in the following example:
>
> >>> def fun(*args, **kwargs):
>    print "args:", args
>    print "kwargs:", kwargs
>
>
> >>> fun(1, "be", [1,2,3], now=1, more="yep", then={1:"a",2:"be"})
>args: (1, 'be', [1, 2, 3])
>kwargs: {'then': {1: 'a', 2: 'be'}, 'now': 1, 'more': 'yep'}
> >>>
>
>hth
>Gregor

--
Magnus Lycka (It's really Lyckå), magnus@thinkware.se
Thinkware AB, Sweden, www.thinkware.se
I code Python ~ The Agile Programming Language 



From magnus@thinkware.se  Tue Jul  8 18:40:03 2003
From: magnus@thinkware.se (Magnus =?iso-8859-1?Q?Lyck=E5?=)
Date: Tue Jul  8 17:40:03 2003
Subject: [Tutor] using regular expressions
In-Reply-To: 
References: <7668798.1057678807@141-213-238-90.umnet.umich.edu>
 <7668798.1057678807@141-213-238-90.umnet.umich.edu>
Message-ID: <5.2.1.1.0.20030708232446.073b97f0@www.thinkware.se>

At 23:01 2003-07-08 +0200, Karl Pfl=E4sterer wrote:
>In python you can compile your regexp.  That gives faster results.  Then
>it is often better to use a `try ...except' block instead of `if ...' if
>you do the search in a loop.

Actually, I think that twenty (?) regular expressions are cached
automagically in Python, so you don't need to compile them to
increase performance, but it looks better not to repeat that
string I think.

>    'Twas brillig, and the slithy toves
>         Did gyre and gimble in the wabe;
>     All mimsy were the borogoves,
>          And the mome raths outgrabe.   "Lewis Carroll" "Jabberwocky"

      'En slidig =F6dling borvlade
          I bryningen p=E5 solvis ples.
      Och lumpingen var brynklig, och
          Den villa grutten fnes.         "G=F6sta Knutsson" "Jabberwocky"


--
Magnus Lycka (It's really Lyckå), magnus@thinkware.se
Thinkware AB, Sweden, www.thinkware.se
I code Python ~ The Agile Programming Language=20



From marichar@csusb.edu  Tue Jul  8 20:17:01 2003
From: marichar@csusb.edu (Matt Richardson)
Date: Tue Jul  8 19:17:01 2003
Subject: [Tutor] Suggestions for cleaner code
Message-ID: <1057706198.518.98.camel@matt-richardsons-computer.local>

Hi all,
I'm starting to get the hang of this, but am looking for some criticism
to keep me on track.  One of the exercises in 'Core Python' is to create
a program that asks a user to select an operation to run, run the
program, then prompt for another operation until an escape command is
given.  After screwing around with it for a couple of days, here's what
I've got:

#!/sw/bin/python

print 'Choose one of the following: '
print '1  Greeting'
print '2  Discussion'
print '3  Question'
print '4  Farewell'

loop = 0
while (loop == 0):
    option = input('Option: ')
    if (1 <= option <= 3):
        if option == 1:
            print 'Hello'
        elif option == 2:
            print 'I should have paid more attention in math classes.'
        elif option == 3:
            print 'Why did I sleep through class?'
    else:
        print 'Farewell'
        loop = 1

I'm sure that there are better ways to do this, so I'd like to hear
them.

Thanks,
Matt


-- 
Matt Richardson
Instructional Support Technician
Department of Art
CSU San Bernardino
marichar@csusb.edu




From kalle@lysator.liu.se  Tue Jul  8 21:00:02 2003
From: kalle@lysator.liu.se (Kalle Svensson)
Date: Tue Jul  8 20:00:02 2003
Subject: [Tutor] Suggestions for cleaner code
In-Reply-To: <1057706198.518.98.camel@matt-richardsons-computer.local>
References: <1057706198.518.98.camel@matt-richardsons-computer.local>
Message-ID: <20030708235937.GJ11075@i92.ryd.student.liu.se>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

[Matt Richardson]
> Hi all,

> I'm starting to get the hang of this, but am looking for some
> criticism to keep me on track.  One of the exercises in 'Core
> Python' is to create a program that asks a user to select an
> operation to run, run the program, then prompt for another operation
> until an escape command is given.  After screwing around with it for
> a couple of days, here's what I've got:

Basically, it's looking good.  Since you asked, I've tried to find a
pair of suggestions for improvement, though.

> loop = 0
> while (loop == 0):
>     option = input('Option: ')
...
>     else:
>         print 'Farewell'
>         loop = 1

This is more commonly written as:

  while True:
      option = input()
  ...
      else:
          print 'Farewell'
          break

Eliminates the variable "loop", but otherwise works the same.

Now for the interesting part, the if statement:

>     if (1 <= option <= 3):
>         if option == 1:
>             print 'Hello'
>         elif option == 2:
>             print 'I should have paid more attention in math classes.'
>         elif option == 3:
>             print 'Why did I sleep through class?'

A good way to make this easier to extend (e.g. with new menu choises)
is to use a dictionary.  Consider:

  options = {1: ('Greeting', 'Hello'),
             2: ('Discussion', 'I should have paid more attention '
                               'in math classes.'),
             3: ('Question', 'Why did I sleep through class?')
             'default': ('Farewell', 'Farewell')}

Can you figure out a way to replace the beginning prints and the if
statements with something simpler (that won't have to be modified for
adding new menu choises) using this data structure?

Peace,
  Kalle
- -- 
Kalle Svensson, http://www.juckapan.org/~kalle/
Student, root and saint in the Church of Emacs.
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From marichar@csusb.edu  Tue Jul  8 21:19:01 2003
From: marichar@csusb.edu (Matt Richardson)
Date: Tue Jul  8 20:19:01 2003
Subject: [Tutor] Suggestions for cleaner code
In-Reply-To: <20030708235937.GJ11075@i92.ryd.student.liu.se>
References: <1057706198.518.98.camel@matt-richardsons-computer.local>
 <20030708235937.GJ11075@i92.ryd.student.liu.se>
Message-ID: <1057709936.518.112.camel@matt-richardsons-computer.local>

On Tue, 2003-07-08 at 16:59, Kalle Svensson wrote:
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
> 
> [Matt Richardson]
> > Hi all,
> 
> > I'm starting to get the hang of this, but am looking for some
> > criticism to keep me on track.  One of the exercises in 'Core
> > Python' is to create a program that asks a user to select an
> > operation to run, run the program, then prompt for another operation
> > until an escape command is given.  After screwing around with it for
> > a couple of days, here's what I've got:
> 
> Basically, it's looking good.  Since you asked, I've tried to find a
> pair of suggestions for improvement, though.
> 
> > loop = 0
> > while (loop == 0):
> >     option = input('Option: ')
> ...
> >     else:
> >         print 'Farewell'
> >         loop = 1
> 
> This is more commonly written as:
> 
>   while True:
>       option = input()
>   ...
>       else:
>           print 'Farewell'
>           break
> 
> Eliminates the variable "loop", but otherwise works the same.

Yes.  I didn't like the 'loop' variable, but kept thinking in terms of
BASIC (20 years ago) and a GOTO line that would repeat the 'input' line.
> 
> Now for the interesting part, the if statement:
> 
> >     if (1 <= option <= 3):
> >         if option == 1:
> >             print 'Hello'
> >         elif option == 2:
> >             print 'I should have paid more attention in math classes.'
> >         elif option == 3:
> >             print 'Why did I sleep through class?'
> 
> A good way to make this easier to extend (e.g. with new menu choises)
> is to use a dictionary.  Consider:
> 
>   options = {1: ('Greeting', 'Hello'),
>              2: ('Discussion', 'I should have paid more attention '
>                                'in math classes.'),
>              3: ('Question', 'Why did I sleep through class?')
>              'default': ('Farewell', 'Farewell')}
> 
> Can you figure out a way to replace the beginning prints and the if
> statements with something simpler (that won't have to be modified for
> adding new menu choises) using this data structure?
> 
The dictionary approach is far more elegant than the one I took.  Thanks
for the pointers.

Matt





From missive@hotmail.com  Tue Jul  8 21:20:04 2003
From: missive@hotmail.com (Lee Harr)
Date: Tue Jul  8 20:20:04 2003
Subject: [Tutor] Re: Suggestions for cleaner code
Message-ID: 

# list of tuples (description, message)
# make sure your "exit" choice is last in the list
messages = [('Greeting', 'Hello.'),
                ('Discussion', 'I should have paid more attention in math 
classes.'),
                ('Question', 'Why did I sleep through class?'),
                ('Extend', 'Now with simpler extensibility!'),
                ('Farewell', 'Farewell'),
            ]


def show_choices():
    print 'Choose one of the following: '

    # starting with python2.3, use enumerate
    n = 1
    for description, message in messages:
        print '%2s %s' % (n, description)
        n += 1


def show_message(option):
    description, message = messages[option-1]
    print
    print message
    print


def get_input():
    # raw_input is recommended over input
    # in fact, don't use input at all
    while 1:
        try:
            option = int(raw_input('Enter %s - %s : ' % (1, len(messages))))
            if not (1 <= option <= len(messages)):
                continue
            if option == len(messages):
                option = 0
            return option
        except ValueError:
            pass


def main():
    while 1:
        show_choices()
        option = get_input()
        if option:
            show_message(option)
        else:
            show_message(len(messages))
            break



if __name__ == '__main__':
    main()

_________________________________________________________________
The new MSN 8: smart spam protection and 2 months FREE*  
http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail



From marichar@csusb.edu  Tue Jul  8 21:31:03 2003
From: marichar@csusb.edu (Matt Richardson)
Date: Tue Jul  8 20:31:03 2003
Subject: [Tutor] Re: Suggestions for cleaner code
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <1057710648.518.116.camel@matt-richardsons-computer.local>

I'll get there one of these days....
Can I ask why 'input' is frowned upon?  I noticed that in 'Core Python
Programming' the method is as below, namely "int(raw_input())", but in
the 'Non-programmer's' tutorial, 'input()' is used.  Just curious.

Thanks,
Matt


On Tue, 2003-07-08 at 17:19, Lee Harr wrote:
> # list of tuples (description, message)
> # make sure your "exit" choice is last in the list
> messages = [('Greeting', 'Hello.'),
>                 ('Discussion', 'I should have paid more attention in math 
> classes.'),
>                 ('Question', 'Why did I sleep through class?'),
>                 ('Extend', 'Now with simpler extensibility!'),
>                 ('Farewell', 'Farewell'),
>             ]
> 
> 
> def show_choices():
>     print 'Choose one of the following: '
> 
>     # starting with python2.3, use enumerate
>     n = 1
>     for description, message in messages:
>         print '%2s %s' % (n, description)
>         n += 1
> 
> 
> def show_message(option):
>     description, message = messages[option-1]
>     print
>     print message
>     print
> 
> 
> def get_input():
>     # raw_input is recommended over input
>     # in fact, don't use input at all
>     while 1:
>         try:
>             option = int(raw_input('Enter %s - %s : ' % (1, len(messages))))
>             if not (1 <= option <= len(messages)):
>                 continue
>             if option == len(messages):
>                 option = 0
>             return option
>         except ValueError:
>             pass
> 
> 
> def main():
>     while 1:
>         show_choices()
>         option = get_input()
>         if option:
>             show_message(option)
>         else:
>             show_message(len(messages))
>             break
> 
> 
> 
> if __name__ == '__main__':
>     main()
> 
> _________________________________________________________________
> The new MSN 8: smart spam protection and 2 months FREE*  
> http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Tutor maillist  -  Tutor@python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor
-- 
Matt Richardson
Instructional Support Technician
Department of Art
CSU San Bernardino
marichar@csusb.edu




From jaredw1234567@hotmail.com  Tue Jul  8 21:49:02 2003
From: jaredw1234567@hotmail.com (Jared W)
Date: Tue Jul  8 20:49:02 2003
Subject: [Tutor] Suggestions for cleaner code
Message-ID: 

Hi, I'm just learning python so my ideas might not be the best way, but I 
think they might be a little cleaner than your program.  I'm using the 
Python for Non-programmers tutorial on the beginner's section of 
www.python.org.  Everything I know about python comes from there.  Here is 
the program I wrote after seeing your program.

#reply to cleaner code e-mail

def printoptions():
	print "Options:"
	print "1 - Greeting"
	print "2 - Discussion"
	print "3 - Question"
	print "4 - Farewell"

selection = 67
while selection != 4:
	if selection == 1:
		print "Hello"
	elif selection == 2:
		print "I should have paid more attention in math class."
	elif selection == 3:
		print "Why did I sleep in math class?"
	elif selection != 4:
		printoptions()
	selection = input("Select an option:")
print "Farewell"

One thing I noticed about your program was that it did not do (or I don't 
think it does) anything if the user does not select one of the 4 choices.  
This could be a problem if the user makes a typing error, or something like 
that happens.  If the person selects 5, I'm not sure what would have 
happened in your program, but in mine, the program would reprint the 
options.  You might want to consider that in your future programs.  Also, 
what is "Core Python?"

Jared

>From: Matt Richardson 
>To: tutor@python.org
>Subject: [Tutor] Suggestions for cleaner code
>Date: Tue, 08 Jul 2003 16:16:38 -0700
>
>Hi all,
>I'm starting to get the hang of this, but am looking for some criticism
>to keep me on track.  One of the exercises in 'Core Python' is to create
>a program that asks a user to select an operation to run, run the
>program, then prompt for another operation until an escape command is
>given.  After screwing around with it for a couple of days, here's what
>I've got:
>
>#!/sw/bin/python
>
>print 'Choose one of the following: '
>print '1  Greeting'
>print '2  Discussion'
>print '3  Question'
>print '4  Farewell'
>
>loop = 0
>while (loop == 0):
>     option = input('Option: ')
>     if (1 <= option <= 3):
>         if option == 1:
>             print 'Hello'
>         elif option == 2:
>             print 'I should have paid more attention in math classes.'
>         elif option == 3:
>             print 'Why did I sleep through class?'
>     else:
>         print 'Farewell'
>         loop = 1
>
>I'm sure that there are better ways to do this, so I'd like to hear
>them.
>
>Thanks,
>Matt
>
>
>--
>Matt Richardson
>Instructional Support Technician
>Department of Art
>CSU San Bernardino
>marichar@csusb.edu
>
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>Tutor maillist  -  Tutor@python.org
>http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor

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From jeff@ccvcorp.com  Tue Jul  8 21:53:02 2003
From: jeff@ccvcorp.com (Jeff Shannon)
Date: Tue Jul  8 20:53:02 2003
Subject: [Tutor] Suggestions for cleaner code
References: <1057706198.518.98.camel@matt-richardsons-computer.local>
Message-ID: <3F0B675D.8050302@ccvcorp.com>

Kalle Svensson has given some good suggestions, and if you follow his 
dictionary hints then this bit of code becomes redundant, but I figured 
I'd point this out anyhow...

>    if (1 <= option <= 3):
>        if option == 1:
>            print 'Hello'
>        elif option == 2:
>            print 'I should have paid more attention in math classes.'
>        elif option == 3:
>            print 'Why did I sleep through class?'
>    else:
>        print 'Farewell'
>        loop = 1
>

Here you are checking to see if option is between 1 and 3, and then 
checking which number it is.  You could do this just as well with a 
single level of if/elif, instead of two levels:

    if option == 1:  [...]
    elif option == 2: [...]
    elif option == 3: [...]
    else:        [...]

Also, as a minor point, one could argue that you're not being completely 
truthful to your users -- you claim that 4 will quit, but really 
*anything* except 1, 2, or 3 will quit.  Someone who accidentally hits a 
key other than 1-4 might be unhappy that the program exited rather than 
giving them another chance...  This can be solved by either limiting the 
quit to 4 and having any other input cause a new cycle through the loop 
(just change that last else into an elif), or by changing your message 
to inform users (instead of  '4 Farewell', say something like 'Any other 
key:  Farewell').

Jeff Shannon
Technician/Programmer
Credit International




From jeff@ccvcorp.com  Tue Jul  8 22:03:02 2003
From: jeff@ccvcorp.com (Jeff Shannon)
Date: Tue Jul  8 21:03:02 2003
Subject: [Tutor] Re: Suggestions for cleaner code
References:  <1057710648.518.116.camel@matt-richardsons-computer.local>
Message-ID: <3F0B69A2.2030203@ccvcorp.com>

Matt Richardson wrote:

>I'll get there one of these days....
>Can I ask why 'input' is frowned upon?  I noticed that in 'Core Python
>Programming' the method is as below, namely "int(raw_input())", but in
>the 'Non-programmer's' tutorial, 'input()' is used.  Just curious.
>  
>

That's a good question, actually.

The reason that input() is frowned upon is that it, in essence, executes 
Python code typed into it and returns the result of that execution.  If 
someone types a number, then you get a number (just like if you'd typed 
a numeric literal in a Python program).  However, if you want someone to 
type a word, then they'd need to enclose it in quotes, or else input() 
will throw a NameError -- or, if that word actually is a name used in 
your program, it could have unexpected side effects.  Even worse, 
someone could easily type something like 'import os; os.system("rm -s 
/")' -- this *will* import the os module and spawn a shell that will 
attempt to delete every file on your system.  (Hopefully, if you're 
running *nix, you'll have protections set so that this particular 
example won't do significant damage, but still...)

On the other hand, raw_input() will always return a string, and it 
*won't* evaluate anything so there's no danger of unexpected side 
effects.  It's pretty easy to convert that string into a number by using 
int(), though you may want to use a try/except structure just in case a 
user types something that's not a number.  

Jeff Shannon
Technician/Programmer
Credit International




From marichar@csusb.edu  Tue Jul  8 22:08:05 2003
From: marichar@csusb.edu (Matt Richardson)
Date: Tue Jul  8 21:08:05 2003
Subject: [Tutor] Suggestions for cleaner code
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <1057712413.518.120.camel@matt-richardsons-computer.local>

On Tue, 2003-07-08 at 17:48, Jared W wrote:
> Hi, I'm just learning python so my ideas might not be the best way, but I 
> think they might be a little cleaner than your program.  I'm using the 
> Python for Non-programmers tutorial on the beginner's section of 
> www.python.org.  Everything I know about python comes from there.  Here is 
> the program I wrote after seeing your program.
> 
> #reply to cleaner code e-mail
> 
> def printoptions():
> 	print "Options:"
> 	print "1 - Greeting"
> 	print "2 - Discussion"
> 	print "3 - Question"
> 	print "4 - Farewell"
> 
> selection = 67
> while selection != 4:
> 	if selection == 1:
> 		print "Hello"
> 	elif selection == 2:
> 		print "I should have paid more attention in math class."
> 	elif selection == 3:
> 		print "Why did I sleep in math class?"
> 	elif selection != 4:
> 		printoptions()
> 	selection = input("Select an option:")
> print "Farewell"
> 
> One thing I noticed about your program was that it did not do (or I don't 
> think it does) anything if the user does not select one of the 4 choices.  
> This could be a problem if the user makes a typing error, or something like 
> that happens.  If the person selects 5, I'm not sure what would have 
> happened in your program, but in mine, the program would reprint the 
> options.  You might want to consider that in your future programs.  Also, 
> what is "Core Python?"
> 
> Jared
> 
The user error instance is a good point.  I should have been more
explicit in the name of the text I am using, 'Core Python Programming',
by Wesley Chun.  Picked it up new on amazon for $15.  I started with the
same tutorial you are using, but needed something that was going to hold
my hand even more.

Matt

-- 
Matt Richardson
Instructional Support Technician
Department of Art
CSU San Bernardino
marichar@csusb.edu




From missive@hotmail.com  Tue Jul  8 22:14:02 2003
From: missive@hotmail.com (Lee Harr)
Date: Tue Jul  8 21:14:02 2003
Subject: [Tutor] Re: Suggestions for cleaner code
Message-ID: 

>Can I ask why 'input' is frowned upon?  I noticed that in 'Core Python
>Programming' the method is as below, namely "int(raw_input())", but in
>the 'Non-programmer's' tutorial, 'input()' is used.  Just curious.

http://python.org/doc/current/lib/lib.html
http://python.org/doc/current/lib/built-in-funcs.html

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From python@rcn.com  Tue Jul  8 22:25:03 2003
From: python@rcn.com (Raymond Hettinger)
Date: Tue Jul  8 21:25:03 2003
Subject: [Tutor] Re: Suggestions for cleaner code
References: 
Message-ID: <000201c345b8$5dab1ce0$4ab4958d@oemcomputer>

> >Can I ask why 'input' is frowned upon?  I noticed that in 'Core Python
> >Programming' the method is as below, namely "int(raw_input())", but in
> >the 'Non-programmer's' tutorial, 'input()' is used.  Just curious.

It depends on who is doing the frowning.  Guido rather likes input()
and finds it helpful so that a user can input something like:
   10 * 20
or
   current_count + 1

For production code, it presents a security risk since untrusted
input is passed directly to eval().  So, your innocuous:

   f = input('how many friends do you have?')

will allow a rather unhelpful response like:

   os.unlink('/profile.sh')


Raymond Hettinger


From tony@tcapp.com  Wed Jul  9 03:50:02 2003
From: tony@tcapp.com (Tony Cappellini)
Date: Wed Jul  9 02:50:02 2003
Subject: [Tutor] Setting PYTHONPATH in FreeBSD/Linux
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20030708232817.01aac1c0@smtp.sbcglobal.net>


I've been working with Python in Windows up until now.

I want to add HTMLGen to my PYTHONPATH, on a FreeBSD machine.

When I printed out os.environ['PYTHONPATH'], originally an error was 
display, because this key didn't exist.

So I've added

set pythonpath = /home/myhomedir
to my .cshrc file.
(all of the environment variables in the .cshrc file are lowercase, so I 
also made pythonpath lowercase)

I've logged out and back in and verified that my new environment variable 
is set, by typing
set.

When I launch Python (version 2.0), import os, and print os.environ

pythonpath is NOT being seen by the python interperter.

I don't know if this is an OS thing with FreeBSD, or if it's a Python issue.

Can anyone help ?




From jaredw1234567@hotmail.com  Wed Jul  9 05:06:02 2003
From: jaredw1234567@hotmail.com (Jared W)
Date: Wed Jul  9 04:06:02 2003
Subject: [Tutor] Suggestions for cleaner code
Message-ID: 

After I had sent my response to cleaner code, I noticed people talking about 
input not being used because of security problems.  Three questions come to 
mind.  How does input create these problems?  Does raw_input also have these 
problems?  What is the alternate to input?

Thanks,
Jared

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From magnus@thinkware.se  Wed Jul  9 08:36:02 2003
From: magnus@thinkware.se (Magnus =?iso-8859-1?Q?Lyck=E5?=)
Date: Wed Jul  9 07:36:02 2003
Subject: [Tutor] Setting PYTHONPATH in FreeBSD/Linux
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20030708232817.01aac1c0@smtp.sbcglobal.net>
Message-ID: <5.2.1.1.0.20030709131739.073c3480@www.thinkware.se>

This has nothing to do with Python, but since it's such
a sunny day here... ;)

At 23:46 2003-07-08 -0700, Tony Cappellini wrote:
>set pythonpath = /home/myhomedir
>to my .cshrc file.
>(all of the environment variables in the .cshrc file are lowercase, so I 
>also made pythonpath lowercase)

I'm not at all sure that pythonpath is the same thing
as PYTHONPATH.

By the way, I actually think you will be happier
in the long run using bash. Most documentation on
how to set things up assume a Bourne shell compatible
shell, and csh and tcsh aren't. bash is, while still
offering all the bells and whistles of tcsh.

>I've logged out and back in and verified that my new environment variable 
>is set, by typing
>set.

But that's not enough! Variables defined with just "set" are
not inherited by spawned processes. .cshrc is sourced every
time you start up a csh process. Python is obviously not csh.

.cshrc is only intended for stuff you want to be defined in
your csh processes, and not anywhere else. At least that's how
I understand it. I don't run csh very often since I saw the
light ;) in 1996 or so.

In csh I think you need to do

   setenv PYTHONPATH /home/myhomedir

and I think you should put that in .login, which is just sourced
in the login shell. PYTHONPATH will then be inherited by all sub
processes, so there is no need to run it over and over again as
you would if it was placed in .cshrc.

in bash you would do

   export PYTHONPATH=/home/myhomedir

or

   PYTHONPATH=/home/myhomedir
   export PYTHONPATH

if you want to stay compatible with older shells.

Another option is to add the path in your Python program:

import sys
sys.path.append('/home/myhomedir')


--
Magnus Lycka (It's really Lyckå), magnus@thinkware.se
Thinkware AB, Sweden, www.thinkware.se
I code Python ~ The Agile Programming Language 



From Zabelkind@web.de  Wed Jul  9 08:50:02 2003
From: Zabelkind@web.de (Mathias Mamsch)
Date: Wed Jul  9 07:50:02 2003
Subject: [Tutor] audiofile manipulation
References: 
Message-ID: <005f01c34610$6ca35390$0500a8c0@nias>

Hi,

this task depends on what format your audiosamples are.
If you have a wav file your data is in PCM format, which depends on wether
it is stereo, mono, etc.
What format do you want to use?

The wave file format is described for example here:
http://ccrma-www.stanford.edu/CCRMA/Courses/422/projects/WaveFormat/

For reading out the header of the binary use the struct module of python
(see example below for a wave header). When you have read the data you can
do what you want, for example filtering, you could maybe use the structs
again for converting the data bits to integers. When you want to write the
file again, you have to go the other way round.

Information about the struct module is here:
http://www.python.org/doc/current/lib/module-struct.html

hope this helps, maybe someone has a better idea than using struct for
converting the sample data back to integers.

bye Mathias Mamsch


-----------------
import struct

f = open("c:\\mywavefile.wav","rb")

# read the file header
#  This is the Format of the Wave Header (44 Bytes)
#  See the helpfiles for struct, wave format

fmtstr = "4sL4s4sLhhLLhh4sL"

header = struct.unpack(fmtstr,f.read(44))
print header  # print it out as a touple
(ID, Chunksize,Format,SubChunkID,
SubChunkSize,AudioFmt,Channels,SampleRate,
 ByteRate,BlockAlign,BitsPerSample,
 Subchunk2ID,Subchunk2Size) = header

# read the data

print "Reading %d data bytes ..." % Subchunk2Size
data = f.read(SubChunk2Size)
f.close()
------------------

----- Original Message -----
From: "marta_andrea" 
To: "tutor" 
Sent: Tuesday, July 01, 2003 11:41 AM
Subject: [Tutor] audiofile manipulation


Hi to all,
I'd like to manipulate directly audiosamples. The idea is to algorithmically
calculate each sample value and then write it  to file (I know it's a huge
task: but it can produce really interesting results).
I cheked the docs but I am got a bit confused on audiofiles manipulation.
Could anyone (no hurry) post an exemple to do this?
Thanks a lot as usual for any hint!

-a-
Andrea Valle



From Zabelkind@web.de  Wed Jul  9 10:14:08 2003
From: Zabelkind@web.de (Mathias Mamsch)
Date: Wed Jul  9 09:14:08 2003
Subject: [Tutor] audiofile manipulation
Message-ID: <008001c3461c$1654f140$0500a8c0@nias>

Argh

I just see the python developers were faster than me :)

http://www.python.org/doc/current/lib/mmedia.html

Python already provides a way to read and manipulate audio data, so why
invent the wheel again?

Greetings, Mathias Mamsch



From cybersamurai@mac.com  Wed Jul  9 10:56:02 2003
From: cybersamurai@mac.com (Luiz Siqueira Neto)
Date: Wed Jul  9 09:56:02 2003
Subject: [Tutor] What *var* mean?
Message-ID: <3F0C1EFF.70306@mac.com>

I see a lot of variables like this
--
*var*
--

What is this?

-

Another question: how I use __doc__ and __help__ for make documentation



From magnus@thinkware.se  Wed Jul  9 11:46:28 2003
From: magnus@thinkware.se (Magnus =?iso-8859-1?Q?Lyck=E5?=)
Date: Wed Jul  9 10:46:28 2003
Subject: [Tutor] Re: Suggestions for cleaner code
In-Reply-To: <3F0B69A2.2030203@ccvcorp.com>
References: 
 <1057710648.518.116.camel@matt-richardsons-computer.local>
Message-ID: <5.2.1.1.0.20030709140127.0204a8d8@www.thinkware.se>

At 18:02 2003-07-08 -0700, Jeff Shannon wrote:
>Even worse, someone could easily type something like 'import os; 
>os.system("rm -s /")' -- this *will* import the os module and spawn a 
>shell that will attempt to delete every file on your system.

No it won't. You can only evaluate expressions, not arbitrary
statements. But the second part 'os.system("rm -s /")' is
certainly possible, so if the program has already imported
the os module, you are definitely in danger.


--
Magnus Lycka (It's really Lyckå), magnus@thinkware.se
Thinkware AB, Sweden, www.thinkware.se
I code Python ~ The Agile Programming Language 



From malex@tagancha.org  Wed Jul  9 11:47:02 2003
From: malex@tagancha.org (Alex. M.)
Date: Wed Jul  9 10:47:02 2003
Subject: [Tutor] Re: Linux versions
Message-ID: <20030709144628.GA2216@purdue.edu>

* Magnus Lyck=E5  [2003-07-03 15:37:15 +0200]:

=20
> I guess the rest of this mail is a bit off topic, since we seem to have
> established that it's quite possible to run Python well on most modern
> Linux distros. Still, I hope you can live with my further comments and
> questions about Debian.

It's not too off-topic :). Debian is to Linux as Python is to
programming languages to some extent. It "fits your head (TM)" :). It is
very logically organized and its develpment process is reminiscent of
of Python's, on a different scale of course.
=20
> At 16:41 2003-07-02 -0400, Derrick 'dman' Hudson wrote about Debian
> installation:
> >For someone wholly inexperienced
> >with unix then it certainly will take a while, particularly if you are
> >unfamiliar with your hardware and details needed to configure it.
>=20
> I don't quite agree. Regardless of prior Unix experience, Debian is not
> nearly as easy to get started with as the other major Linux distributio=
ns.
> I'd say it's easier to complete a full Mandrake installation than it is=
 to
> figure out what to download to just get your Debian installation starte=
d.
> Being an expert in korn shell scripting and knowing all the innards of =
awk,
> find and sys V init files doesn't change that.

I have to disagree with you on this one. I went to Debian after some
tinkering with Mandrake and RedHat. I broke those two way too many times
even with all the gui tools they had. Granted I was a newbie, but then I
went to Debian while still being a newbie and did not have much trouble
at that point. Maybe because I had mostly well-supported hardware...
It's been more than 2.5 years since I tried Debian and I still don't
regret the switch. I have it on 3 machines and had no
distribution-related problems for a very long time. Sid (Unstable) is
sometimes in flux, like when they were switching from Python 1.5.2 to
2.0 :), but those occasions are rare and one can easily outwait them by
forcing themselves not to "dist-upgrade" for a few days. Yes, it is
addictive to know that you are running a bleeding edge set of software
packages and gets some people in trouble occasionally.
I think that all the modern distributions are on a fairly equal footing
technically, but Debian has that spirit... like Python :) that just
makes you very comfortable using it. My language is too poor to express
this. I might say Debian feels to me like a "Golden ratio". It is
aesthetically pleasing and subconciously fitting or something like that.

> I have used Unix since the late 80's as a user and admin of SunOS/Solar=
is,
> Apollo Domain, HP/UX, AIX etc. I've used Linux since kernel version 1.2=
.8
> (1994?). I've used Slackware, SuSE, RedHat and Mandrake, as well as som=
e
> FreeBSD.

So you won't have any problems with Debian once you get the base system
going.

> I've tried to get started with Debian a few times, but I always gave up
> before I had a running system. I have several laptops without CDs (one
> doesn't even have a built in floppy--it's external) and it's trivial
> to get Mandrake running on them, with support for the touch screen on
> the smaller one etc. I just make a net installation floppy, and reply
> to some trivial questions. As far as I remember, there's just this sing=
le
> floppy image to get, and I can use rawrite in Windows or the Linux dd
> command to write that to a floppy. That part is identical for almost al=
l
> floppy based linux installs. I've done that when I gor tired trying to
> navigate the Debian site.

> With Debian I've tried CDs I got in a bundle some years ago, and at tha=
t
> time, it was hopelessly cumbersome to select what software to install.
> I'm sure it's better now, but the problem seems to be that the Debian
> project is run by people who are all very involved in Debian and most
> things are trivial once you know them. I bet 90% of all Debian users go=
t
> on-site assistance from someone with prior Debian assistance the first
> time they installed it.

That cumbersomness is hopefully behind. You can very quickly install
"tasks" at the beginning and then just use aptitude, gnome-apt, feta
(very clever), or plain apt-get to get the system you want with the
least hassle.

> I surf to www.debian.org, I rather quickly reach something like
> http://www.dk.debian.org/distrib/floppyinst to get instructions on what
> to do next since I want to do a network install with floppys. Then the
> confusion starts. The link to the files just lead me to a list of mirro=
rs
> full of files, and it's not clear what I need. I'm referred to five
> different manuals, and the manual describing what files I need, "Instal=
ling
> Debian GNU/Linux 3.0 For Intel x86 Chapter 11 - Appendix" list almost 1=
00
> different files, and refers me to yet another manual to understand just=
 what
> I need. All these files are for "current", whatever that means. As far =
as I
> understand, Debian always have three versions: "stable", "testing" and
> "unstable". The currently stable version is called "woody", the current=
=20
> testing version is "sarge", and the currently unstable version is
> called "sid". I assume they also have numbers. But which does
> "current" point to? I know, most Debian people, who have struggled to
> get the hang of this will have a gut reaction to say, "Hang on, this
> is very simple." Well, let me tell you: It isn't. It's confusing. All
> this is just for the x86 files...
>=20
> I'm sure I only need a few of all these files, but I certainly get the
> impression that the Debian team is trying to scare people away, rather =
than
> to attract new users.

Yes, boot floppies used to be the only way and they could be somewhat
picky about the media and such. However, these days there are many other
ways to install Debian. I recently used Jigdo to prepare a bleeding edge
distribution on a CD-R for a friend easily. You could also use the Sarge
or unofficial testing CDs from http://www.debian.org/CD/http-ftp/, or
even a Knoppix CD. The latter option seemed to be gaining a lot of
popularity lately. It supposedly has a good hardware detection and you
can upgrade it to Debian proper lately very simply.

As far as boot floppies go to the
http://www.debian.org/releases/stable/i386/ch-install-methods.en.html#s-c=
reate-floppy
and download your minimal set: rescue, root, and drivers (if whatever is
needed for your hardware is not on the root already).=20


> I currently have an old IBM 760LD laptop with a P90, 48MB RAM, 810 MB d=
isk,
> a floppy but no CD and a Netgear FA411 PCMCIA NIC that I'd be intereste=
d
> in running Debian on. No X, just a simple text based system with reason=
able
> security where I can run some Python stuff via ssh etc across the net.

I've had a similar one as my primary work laptop for a while. First two
floppies should be sufficient for a net install on it. For example:
.../current/images-1.44/idepci/rescue.bin and
.../current/images-1.44/idepci/root.bin should get you to the boot
system, if I remember things correctly ;). It's been a while since I had
to install from boot floppies.

> Anyone who thinks he or she can guide me through this process is very
> welcome to try. It seems many Python developers use Debian as their=20
> development
> platform, so it's probably a good platform once you've got it running.
>=20
> >As a first recommendation, try Knoppix.  It is entirely cd-based.
>=20
> Can I upgrade this to a current Debian version in a simple way, or
> am I limited to debs made for Knoppix? I'd really only be interested
> to use Knoppix as a more convenient installer for Debian.

It does seem so.

> Is there a way to use Knoppix on machines lacking a CD? Would that be
> easier than other ways to get Debian running.
>=20

If you don't need XFree86, then boot floppies should get you through just
fine. If you don't have either a CD or a Floppy drive than it's a bit
more convoluted, but if you have anything else running on that system
you could do a lasy HDD based instal after tweking the partitions with
Partition Magic or such.

Best wishes,

Alex.

> --
> Magnus Lycka (It's really Lyckå), magnus@thinkware.se
> Thinkware AB, Sweden, www.thinkware.se
> I code Python ~ The Agile Programming Language=20
>=20
>=20
> _______________________________________________
> Tutor maillist  -  Tutor@python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor


From magnus@thinkware.se  Wed Jul  9 11:50:08 2003
From: magnus@thinkware.se (Magnus =?iso-8859-1?Q?Lyck=E5?=)
Date: Wed Jul  9 10:50:08 2003
Subject: [Tutor] What *var* mean?
In-Reply-To: <3F0C1EFF.70306@mac.com>
Message-ID: <5.2.1.1.0.20030709165124.073b6750@www.thinkware.se>

At 10:56 2003-07-09 -0300, Luiz Siqueira Neto wrote:
>I see a lot of variables like this
>--
>*var*
>--
>
>What is this?

Context please?

Where do you see there, and what are you asking about?
Asterisks surrounding variable names?

If there are in the code they probably mean multiplication,
if they appear in text describing code, they are probably
just there for *emphasis*. There is no such thing as italics
in a text file...

On the other hand *args and **kwargs are different
things, but we've recently covered that.


--
Magnus Lycka (It's really Lyckå), magnus@thinkware.se
Thinkware AB, Sweden, www.thinkware.se
I code Python ~ The Agile Programming Language 



From marichar@csusb.edu  Wed Jul  9 12:33:02 2003
From: marichar@csusb.edu (Matt Richardson)
Date: Wed Jul  9 11:33:02 2003
Subject: [Tutor] Suggestions for cleaner code
In-Reply-To: <3F0B675D.8050302@ccvcorp.com>
References: <1057706198.518.98.camel@matt-richardsons-computer.local>
 <3F0B675D.8050302@ccvcorp.com>
Message-ID: <1057764749.23760.21.camel@matt-richardsons-computer.local>

Thanks for the suggestions, it's looking cleaner already.  I haven't
implemented the dictionary yet, but I have incorporated some of the
suggestions posted:

#!/sw/bin/python

print 'Choose one of the following: '
print '1  Greeting'
print '2  Discussion'
print '3  Question'
print '4  Farewell'

while True:
    option = int(raw_input('Option: '))
    if option == 1:
        print 'Hello'
    elif option == 2:
        print 'I should have paid more attention in math classes.'
    elif option == 3:
        print 'Why did I sleep through class?'
    elif option == 4:
        print 'Farewell'
        break

Got rid of the unnecessary 'loop' variable I was using and a level of if
statements.  The tasks the options perform here are obviously trivial,
but I have a real use for this type of program so getting it nice and
clean is important to me.  I manage four computer labs on a part-time
basis (budgets constraints make for strange job descriptions) and need
to make a program that gives the user (instructor or other tech) a
simple interface to run a more complex suite of imaging and updating
programs.

thanks for the help,
Matt


On Tue, 2003-07-08 at 17:52, Jeff Shannon wrote:
> Kalle Svensson has given some good suggestions, and if you follow his 
> dictionary hints then this bit of code becomes redundant, but I figured 
> I'd point this out anyhow...
> 
> >    if (1 <= option <= 3):
> >        if option == 1:
> >            print 'Hello'
> >        elif option == 2:
> >            print 'I should have paid more attention in math classes.'
> >        elif option == 3:
> >            print 'Why did I sleep through class?'
> >    else:
> >        print 'Farewell'
> >        loop = 1
> >
> 
> Here you are checking to see if option is between 1 and 3, and then 
> checking which number it is.  You could do this just as well with a 
> single level of if/elif, instead of two levels:
> 
>     if option == 1:  [...]
>     elif option == 2: [...]
>     elif option == 3: [...]
>     else:        [...]
> 
> Also, as a minor point, one could argue that you're not being completely 
> truthful to your users -- you claim that 4 will quit, but really 
> *anything* except 1, 2, or 3 will quit.  Someone who accidentally hits a 
> key other than 1-4 might be unhappy that the program exited rather than 
> giving them another chance...  This can be solved by either limiting the 
> quit to 4 and having any other input cause a new cycle through the loop 
> (just change that last else into an elif), or by changing your message 
> to inform users (instead of  '4 Farewell', say something like 'Any other 
> key:  Farewell').
> 
> Jeff Shannon
> Technician/Programmer
> Credit International
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Tutor maillist  -  Tutor@python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor
-- 
Matt Richardson
Instructional Support Technician
Department of Art
CSU San Bernardino
marichar@csusb.edu




From pythontutor@venix.com  Wed Jul  9 12:53:01 2003
From: pythontutor@venix.com (Lloyd Kvam)
Date: Wed Jul  9 11:53:01 2003
Subject: [Tutor] Suggestions for cleaner code
References: <1057706198.518.98.camel@matt-richardsons-computer.local> <3F0B675D.8050302@ccvcorp.com> <1057764749.23760.21.camel@matt-richardsons-computer.local>
Message-ID: <3F0C39C3.80109@venix.com>

You might want to look at the cmd module for some aspects of what you
are doing.  readline and curses would probably only be useful on
unix systems.

Lundh's book "Python Standard Library" and Martelli's "Python in a Nutshell"
provide some pointers.

Matt Richardson wrote:
> Thanks for the suggestions, it's looking cleaner already.  I haven't
> implemented the dictionary yet, but I have incorporated some of the
> suggestions posted:
> 
> #!/sw/bin/python
> 
> print 'Choose one of the following: '
> print '1  Greeting'
> print '2  Discussion'
> print '3  Question'
> print '4  Farewell'
> 
> while True:
>     option = int(raw_input('Option: '))
>     if option == 1:
>         print 'Hello'
>     elif option == 2:
>         print 'I should have paid more attention in math classes.'
>     elif option == 3:
>         print 'Why did I sleep through class?'
>     elif option == 4:
>         print 'Farewell'
>         break
> 
> Got rid of the unnecessary 'loop' variable I was using and a level of if
> statements.  The tasks the options perform here are obviously trivial,
> but I have a real use for this type of program so getting it nice and
> clean is important to me.  I manage four computer labs on a part-time
> basis (budgets constraints make for strange job descriptions) and need
> to make a program that gives the user (instructor or other tech) a
> simple interface to run a more complex suite of imaging and updating
> programs.
> 
> thanks for the help,
> Matt
> 
> 
> On Tue, 2003-07-08 at 17:52, Jeff Shannon wrote:
> 
>>Kalle Svensson has given some good suggestions, and if you follow his 
>>dictionary hints then this bit of code becomes redundant, but I figured 
>>I'd point this out anyhow...
>>
>>
>>>   if (1 <= option <= 3):
>>>       if option == 1:
>>>           print 'Hello'
>>>       elif option == 2:
>>>           print 'I should have paid more attention in math classes.'
>>>       elif option == 3:
>>>           print 'Why did I sleep through class?'
>>>   else:
>>>       print 'Farewell'
>>>       loop = 1
>>>
>>
>>Here you are checking to see if option is between 1 and 3, and then 
>>checking which number it is.  You could do this just as well with a 
>>single level of if/elif, instead of two levels:
>>
>>    if option == 1:  [...]
>>    elif option == 2: [...]
>>    elif option == 3: [...]
>>    else:        [...]
>>
>>Also, as a minor point, one could argue that you're not being completely 
>>truthful to your users -- you claim that 4 will quit, but really 
>>*anything* except 1, 2, or 3 will quit.  Someone who accidentally hits a 
>>key other than 1-4 might be unhappy that the program exited rather than 
>>giving them another chance...  This can be solved by either limiting the 
>>quit to 4 and having any other input cause a new cycle through the loop 
>>(just change that last else into an elif), or by changing your message 
>>to inform users (instead of  '4 Farewell', say something like 'Any other 
>>key:  Farewell').
>>
>>Jeff Shannon
>>Technician/Programmer
>>Credit International
>>
>>
>>
>>_______________________________________________
>>Tutor maillist  -  Tutor@python.org
>>http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor
> 


-- 
Lloyd Kvam
Venix Corp.
1 Court Street, Suite 378
Lebanon, NH 03766-1358

voice:	603-443-6155
fax:	801-459-9582



From cybersamurai@mac.com  Wed Jul  9 13:29:02 2003
From: cybersamurai@mac.com (Luiz Siqueira Neto)
Date: Wed Jul  9 12:29:02 2003
Subject: [Tutor] Re: *var*
Message-ID: <3F0C42DB.7040801@mac.com>

Okay, it is probable a *emphasis*. Thanks.  :)

I see this in a source generated by WxGlade tool.

example:

--
def makeSome(y):
     x = "Foobar" + y
     *return* x
--

Now another question:
the __doc__ is only a variable defined in some super class to associate 
the documentation or is more of this?
Where I can get some about documentation inside a class?

Thanks again.  :)



From magnus@thinkware.se  Wed Jul  9 13:59:01 2003
From: magnus@thinkware.se (Magnus =?iso-8859-1?Q?Lyck=E5?=)
Date: Wed Jul  9 12:59:01 2003
Subject: [Tutor] Suggestions for cleaner code
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <5.2.1.1.0.20030709134907.073ce2d0@www.thinkware.se>

At 04:05 2003-07-09 -0400, Jared W wrote:
>After I had sent my response to cleaner code, I noticed people talking 
>about input not being used because of security problems.  Three questions 
>come to mind.  How does input create these problems?  Does raw_input also 
>have these problems?  What is the alternate to input?

Jeff Shannon and Raymond Hettinger already answered this.
As Lee Harr suggested somewhat implicitly, the answer is
in the Python library reference chapter 2.1. Please read!
The manual doesn't quite explain all the possible dangers
though.

raw_input is safe, unless you run eval() on the string it
returns.

I don't know how input is defined, but it *could* be written
like this:

def input(text):
     return eval(raw_input(text))

That's basically what it does: Reads a string entered by the user,
and evaluates it.


--
Magnus Lycka (It's really Lyckå), magnus@thinkware.se
Thinkware AB, Sweden, www.thinkware.se
I code Python ~ The Agile Programming Language 



From jeff@ccvcorp.com  Wed Jul  9 14:11:03 2003
From: jeff@ccvcorp.com (Jeff Shannon)
Date: Wed Jul  9 13:11:03 2003
Subject: [Tutor] Re: Suggestions for cleaner code
References:  <1057710648.518.116.camel@matt-richardsons-computer.local> <5.2.1.1.0.20030709140127.0204a8d8@www.thinkware.se>
Message-ID: <3F0C4C98.7020203@ccvcorp.com>

Magnus Lycke wrote:

> At 18:02 2003-07-08 -0700, Jeff Shannon wrote:
>
>> Even worse, someone could easily type something like 'import os; 
>> os.system("rm -s /")' -- this *will* import the os module and spawn a 
>> shell that will attempt to delete every file on your system.
>
>
> No it won't. You can only evaluate expressions, not arbitrary
> statements. But the second part 'os.system("rm -s /")' is
> certainly possible, so if the program has already imported
> the os module, you are definitely in danger. 


Ah, right, my mistake -- input() uses eval() internally, and eval() can 
only handle expressions, not statements.  So the malicious possibilities 
aren't *quite* as open as I had suggested, though they are still 
definitely there, as are the possibilities for unintentional problems.

Jeff Shannon
Technician/Programmer
Credit International




From marta_andrea@libero.it  Wed Jul  9 14:28:02 2003
From: marta_andrea@libero.it (Andrea Valle)
Date: Wed Jul  9 13:28:02 2003
Subject: [Tutor] oo programming
In-Reply-To: <008001c3461c$1654f140$0500a8c0@nias>
Message-ID: 

Hi to all,
I've started object oriented programming with Python after two years of
"functional" use...
I'm having a lot of fun, but, being a self-taught, I don't know exactly how
to organize the software architecture: what is best to do, what is worst,
etc.
Could anyone indicate me some links or books on the subject? Are there
Python resources related to the topic?

thanks as usual

best

-a-






From magnus@thinkware.se  Wed Jul  9 14:29:02 2003
From: magnus@thinkware.se (Magnus =?iso-8859-1?Q?Lyck=E5?=)
Date: Wed Jul  9 13:29:02 2003
Subject: [Tutor] Re: *var*
In-Reply-To: <3F0C42DB.7040801@mac.com>
Message-ID: <5.2.1.1.0.20030709192715.073c91e8@www.thinkware.se>

At 13:29 2003-07-09 -0300, Luiz Siqueira Neto wrote:
>the __doc__ is only a variable defined in some super class to associate 
>the documentation or is more of this?

Nope. All names with leading and trailing double underscores are
magic. .__doc__ are constructed as bare strings in the beginning
of a module, class or function/method. They are often triple-quoted
to make it easy to make them several lines.

>Where I can get some about documentation inside a class?

 >>> class X:
...     """This is class X"""
...     def y(self):
...             """Method y of class X"""
...             print "Hello"
...
 >>> X.__doc__
'This is class X'
 >>> X.y.__doc__
'Method y of class X'
 >>> help(X)
Help on class X in module __main__:
class X
  |  This is class X
  |
  |  Methods defined here:
  |
  |  y(self)
  |      Method y of class X
  |
  |  ----------------------------------------------------------------------
  |  Data and non-method functions defined here:
  |
  |  __doc__ = 'This is class X'
  |
  |  __module__ = '__main__'
 >>>


--
Magnus Lycka (It's really Lyckå), magnus@thinkware.se
Thinkware AB, Sweden, www.thinkware.se
I code Python ~ The Agile Programming Language 



From magnus@thinkware.se  Wed Jul  9 14:31:02 2003
From: magnus@thinkware.se (Magnus =?iso-8859-1?Q?Lyck=E5?=)
Date: Wed Jul  9 13:31:02 2003
Subject: [Tutor] Setting PYTHONPATH in FreeBSD/Linux
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20030709091447.03d7a128@tcapp.com>
References: <5.2.1.1.0.20030709131739.073c3480@www.thinkware.se>
 <5.1.0.14.0.20030708232817.01aac1c0@smtp.sbcglobal.net>
Message-ID: <5.2.1.1.0.20030709185737.01f64e60@www.thinkware.se>

BTW, I guess the right way is to place HTMLgen in site-packages,
so that it can be found with a normal import. HTMLgen is very
old though. (Why use that?)

At 09:29 2003-07-09 -0700, Tony Cappellini wrote:
>Hello Magnus,
>
>> >>But that's not enough! Variables defined with just "set" are
>> >>not inherited by spawned processes. .cshrc is sourced every
>> >>time you start up a csh process. Python is obviously not csh.
>>
>> >>  export PYTHONPATH
>
>You know- it's been quite a while since I've used a Unix system, and I 
>have had to add
>export statements to my .bashrc file. I'm just rusty on unix.
>
>However, none of the other vars in the .cshrc are exported, yet they do 
>show up
>in os.environ.

I guess they are defined twice: With setenv in .login and with set in .cshrc.

>I can't understand that, however, I will export my pythonpath var and see 
>how that works for the cshell
>
>> >>Another option is to add the path in your Python program:
>>
>>import sys
>>sys.path.append('/home/myhomedir')
>
>The problem with that is that I have to type that every time I start up python

If you are talking about interactive use...yes. Using sys.path.append in a 
program
is also a problem if other people, who might have HTMLgen somewhere else...

>If there were a file I could add this to so it was added each time python 
>starts, I would do it that way.

There is... site.py


--
Magnus Lycka (It's really Lyckå), magnus@thinkware.se
Thinkware AB, Sweden, www.thinkware.se
I code Python ~ The Agile Programming Language 



From alan.gauld@blueyonder.co.uk  Wed Jul  9 15:08:07 2003
From: alan.gauld@blueyonder.co.uk (Alan Gauld)
Date: Wed Jul  9 14:08:07 2003
Subject: [Tutor] Suggestions for cleaner code
References: <1057706198.518.98.camel@matt-richardsons-computer.local> <3F0B675D.8050302@ccvcorp.com> <1057764749.23760.21.camel@matt-richardsons-computer.local>
Message-ID: <00c501c34645$0357f690$6401a8c0@xp>

> Thanks for the suggestions, it's looking cleaner already.

I have one more suggestion:

def getOption():   #<---  DEFINE A FUNCTION HERE
    print '''
Choose one of the following:
1  Greeting
2  Discussion
3  Question
4  Farewell'''    # <---- Note use of ''' to save multiple prints
    return int(raw_input('\nOption[1-4]: '))

> while True:
      option = getOption()  #<--- CALL THE FUNCTION HERE
>     if option == 1:
>         print 'Hello'
>     elif option == 2:
>         print 'I should have paid more attention in math classes.'
>     elif option == 3:
>         print 'Why did I sleep through class?'
>     elif option == 4:
>         print 'Farewell'
>         break

This has the advantage of representing the menu each time
instead of just a list of:

option:
option:
option:

prompts.

Also by adding the format clue '[1-4]' we reduce the chances
of the user trying to enter a non digit and generating an exception.

> but I have a real use for this type of program so getting it nice
and
> clean is important to me.

There is a Python standard module for building interactive prompt
systems you might like to look at, I think its called 'cmd'...

So while this is a useful lesson the standard module might be better
for "production" code. Python: comes with batteries included...

Alan G
Author of the Learn to Program web tutor
http://www.freenetpages.co.uk/hp/alan.gauld



From glingl@aon.at  Wed Jul  9 15:21:02 2003
From: glingl@aon.at (Gregor Lingl)
Date: Wed Jul  9 14:21:02 2003
Subject: [Tutor] oo programming
References: 
Message-ID: <3F0C5D60.1090905@aon.at>

Andrea Valle schrieb:

>Hi to all,
>I've started object oriented programming with Python after two years of
>"functional" use...
>I'm having a lot of fun, but, being a self-taught, I don't know exactly how
>to organize the software architecture: what is best to do, what is worst,
>etc.
>
Hello Andrea!

I think it's impossible to give an exact or even useful answer if your
question is thus general and inexact.
Nevertheless some pointers: Yesterday  Chris Kassopulo posted this:

http://mcsp.wartburg.edu/zelle/PythonCS1_Draft.pdf

It has a strong emphasis on objects and also contains 
a chapter on object oriented design. If you have really 
just begun to do objects, this might be clearifying to 
you.

You also can get a file graphics.py from zelle's homepage,
which contains clear examples of oo-progamming. (He uses
this as a basis for his course).

Studying this you can certainly learn much. 

If you are interested in the OO-details of Python as a 
language, you might consult Alex Martellis Python in a
Nutshell, which leaves nothing open and even discusses
such advanced but relevant topics like the differences 
between classic and new-style classes, relevant since
Python 2.2 (?). (IMHO this is an indispensable book
for every Python programmer, anyway).

(Perhaps one should only use new-style classes form now on?)

Best wishes,
Gregor








>Could anyone indicate me some links or books on the subject? Are there
>Python resources related to the topic?
>
>thanks as usual
>
>best
>
>-a-
>
>
>
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>Tutor maillist  -  Tutor@python.org
>http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor
>
>
>  
>






From dyoo@hkn.eecs.berkeley.edu  Wed Jul  9 15:40:07 2003
From: dyoo@hkn.eecs.berkeley.edu (Danny Yoo)
Date: Wed Jul  9 14:40:07 2003
Subject: [Tutor] Re: Suggestions for cleaner code   [be careful about
 input()]
In-Reply-To: <5.2.1.1.0.20030709140127.0204a8d8@www.thinkware.se>
Message-ID: 


On Wed, 9 Jul 2003, Magnus [iso-8859-1] Lyck=E5 wrote:

> At 18:02 2003-07-08 -0700, Jeff Shannon wrote:
>
> >Even worse, someone could easily type something like 'import os;
> >os.system("rm -s /")' -- this *will* import the os module and spawn a
> >shell that will attempt to delete every file on your system.
>
> No it won't. You can only evaluate expressions, not arbitrary
> statements. But the second part 'os.system("rm -s /")' is certainly
> possible, so if the program has already imported the os module, you are
> definitely in danger.


Jeff had the right idea.  If we use the __import__() builtin, the approach
works.  That is:


    __import__('os').system('ls')


is an example of something that input() will blissfully execute.  This is
what makes input() potentially dangerous.


Hope this helps!



From dyoo@hkn.eecs.berkeley.edu  Wed Jul  9 15:48:01 2003
From: dyoo@hkn.eecs.berkeley.edu (Danny Yoo)
Date: Wed Jul  9 14:48:01 2003
Subject: [Tutor] Re: Suggestions for cleaner code  [a safer alternative
 to input()]
In-Reply-To: <3F0C4C98.7020203@ccvcorp.com>
Message-ID: 


On Wed, 9 Jul 2003, Jeff Shannon wrote:

> Magnus Lycke wrote:
>
> > At 18:02 2003-07-08 -0700, Jeff Shannon wrote:
> >
> >> Even worse, someone could easily type something like 'import os;
> >> os.system("rm -s /")' -- this *will* import the os module and spawn a
> >> shell that will attempt to delete every file on your system.
> >
> >
> > No it won't. You can only evaluate expressions, not arbitrary
> > statements. But the second part 'os.system("rm -s /")' is certainly
> > possible, so if the program has already imported the os module, you
> > are definitely in danger.
>
>
> Ah, right, my mistake -- input() uses eval() internally, and eval() can
> only handle expressions, not statements.  So the malicious possibilities
> aren't *quite* as open as I had suggested, though they are still
> definitely there, as are the possibilities for unintentional problems.


Hi Jeff,


No, you were right the first time.  *grin*


input(), as it stands, is very powerful.  Because of its power, it's not
usually a good idea to use it for casual user input.  There is a way to
make it slightly less dangerous:


###
>>> def input():
...     return eval(raw_input(), {'__builtins__': None})
...
>>> input()
3*4
12
>>> input()
__import__('os')
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "", line 1, in ?
  File "", line 2, in input
  File "", line 0, in ?
NameError: name '__import__' is not defined
###



This modified version of input() still allows for arithmetic expressions,
but we prevent the user from calling any of the builtins.  It probably
still has weaknesses, but it's at least a little safer than the standard
input() function.



Hope this helps!



From zak@harlekin-maus.com  Wed Jul  9 18:14:01 2003
From: zak@harlekin-maus.com (Zak Arntson)
Date: Wed Jul  9 17:14:01 2003
Subject: [Tutor] Weird list indexing
Message-ID: <3067.192.207.104.220.1057785209.squirrel@mail.harlekin-maus.com>

Okay, I create a 2-d "array" like so:

###

>>> a = [[None, None, None], [None, None, None], [None, None, None]]
>>> a
[[None, None, None], [None, None, None], [None, None, None]]
>>> a[1][2] = 'a'
>>> a
[[None, None, None], [None, None, 'a'], [None, None, None]]

###

This makes sense. Now, why does this happen? I'm using Python 2.2.3, by
the way.

###

>>> a = [[None] * 3] * 3
>>> a
[[None, None, None], [None, None, None], [None, None, None]]
>>> a[1][2] = 'a'
>>> a
[[None, None, 'a'], [None, None, 'a'], [None, None, 'a']]

###

My guess is that the three lists are all the same object, just pointed to
three different times? So it seems my shortcut to create a two-dimensional
array doesn't work. Is there better shortcut?

---
Zak Arntson
www.harlekin-maus.com - Games - Lots of 'em




From dyoo@hkn.eecs.berkeley.edu  Wed Jul  9 18:26:02 2003
From: dyoo@hkn.eecs.berkeley.edu (Danny Yoo)
Date: Wed Jul  9 17:26:02 2003
Subject: [Tutor] Weird list indexing
In-Reply-To: <3067.192.207.104.220.1057785209.squirrel@mail.harlekin-maus.com>
Message-ID: 


On Wed, 9 Jul 2003, Zak Arntson wrote:

> Now, why does this happen? I'm using Python 2.2.3, by the way.
>
> ###
>
> >>> a = [[None] * 3] * 3
> >>> a
> [[None, None, None], [None, None, None], [None, None, None]]
> >>> a[1][2] = 'a'
> >>> a
> [[None, None, 'a'], [None, None, 'a'], [None, None, 'a']]
>
> ###
>
> My guess is that the three lists are all the same object, just pointed to
> three different times? So it seems my shortcut to create a two-dimensional
> array doesn't work. Is there better shortcut?


Yes, exactly.


A common idiom for making 2d arrays in Python is a list comprehension
approach:

###
>>> a = [ [None] * 4
...       for i in range(7) ]
>>> a
[[None, None, None, None],
 [None, None, None, None],
 [None, None, None, None],
 [None, None, None, None],
 [None, None, None, None],
 [None, None, None, None],
 [None, None, None, None]]
>>> a[1][1] = "Foo!"
>>> a
[[None, None, None, None],
 [None, 'Foo!', None, None],
 [None, None, None, None],
 [None, None, None, None],
 [None, None, None, None],
 [None, None, None, None],
 [None, None, None, None]]
###


This works because the subexpression in our list comprehension,

    [ [None] * 4    for i in range(7) ]
      ^^^^^^^^^^

is evaluated more than once.  We get a new sublist for each row in our
matrix, so we're able to avoid the shared-structure problem that you saw.



Now that we know this, we can make a small utility function to construct
2d arrays for us:

###
>>> def makeArray(rows, cols):
...     return [ [None] * cols for i in range(rows) ]
...
>>> makeArray(2, 3)
[[None, None, None],
 [None, None, None]]
###


Good luck to you!



From nas-pytut@python.ca  Wed Jul  9 18:26:09 2003
From: nas-pytut@python.ca (Neil Schemenauer)
Date: Wed Jul  9 17:26:09 2003
Subject: [Tutor] Weird list indexing
In-Reply-To: <3067.192.207.104.220.1057785209.squirrel@mail.harlekin-maus.com>
References: <3067.192.207.104.220.1057785209.squirrel@mail.harlekin-maus.com>
Message-ID: <20030709213031.GA7494@glacier.arctrix.com>

Zak Arntson wrote:
> My guess is that the three lists are all the same object, just pointed to
> three different times?

Right.

> So it seems my shortcut to create a two-dimensional array doesn't
> work. Is there better shortcut?

The best solution is probably to use the Numeric or Numarry extension.
Eg.

>>> import Numeric
>>> a = Numeric.zeros((5,5), 'O')
>>> a
array([[0 , 0 , 0 , 0 , 0 ],
       [0 , 0 , 0 , 0 , 0 ],
       [0 , 0 , 0 , 0 , 0 ],
       [0 , 0 , 0 , 0 , 0 ],
       [0 , 0 , 0 , 0 , 0 ]],'O')
>>> a[2][1] = 'foo'
>>> a
array([[0 , 0 , 0 , 0 , 0 ],
       [0 , 0 , 0 , 0 , 0 ],
       [0 , foo , 0 , 0 , 0 ],
       [0 , 0 , 0 , 0 , 0 ],
       [0 , 0 , 0 , 0 , 0 ]],'O')

The other solution is to use a 'for' loop (not really a short cut).

  Neil


From elh@outreachnetworks.com  Wed Jul  9 18:52:05 2003
From: elh@outreachnetworks.com (Eric L Howard)
Date: Wed Jul  9 17:52:05 2003
Subject: [Tutor] Weird list indexing
In-Reply-To: <3067.192.207.104.220.1057785209.squirrel@mail.harlekin-maus.com>
References: <3067.192.207.104.220.1057785209.squirrel@mail.harlekin-maus.com>
Message-ID: <20030709215155.GA1316@outreachnetworks.com>

At a certain time, now past [Jul.09.2003-02:13:29PM -0700], zak@harlekin-maus.com spake thusly:
> Okay, I create a 2-d "array" like so:
> 
> ###
> 
> >>> a = [[None, None, None], [None, None, None], [None, None, None]]
> >>> a
> [[None, None, None], [None, None, None], [None, None, None]]
> >>> a[1][2] = 'a'
> >>> a
> [[None, None, None], [None, None, 'a'], [None, None, None]]
> 
> ###
> 
> This makes sense. Now, why does this happen? I'm using Python 2.2.3, by
> the way.
> 
> ###
> 
> >>> a = [[None] * 3] * 3
> >>> a
> [[None, None, None], [None, None, None], [None, None, None]]
> >>> a[1][2] = 'a'
> >>> a
> [[None, None, 'a'], [None, None, 'a'], [None, None, 'a']]
> 
> ###
> 
> My guess is that the three lists are all the same object, just pointed to
> three different times? So it seems my shortcut to create a two-dimensional
> array doesn't work. Is there better shortcut?

I can't say anything towards the 'better shortcut', but....the first thing
that came to mind to see if it was the same object [my first guess also] was
id().

>>> a = [[None] * 3] * 3
>>> a
[[None, None, None], [None, None, None], [None, None, None]]
>>> a[1][2] = 'a'
>>> a
[[None, None, 'a'], [None, None, 'a'], [None, None, 'a']]
>>> id(a)
135424172
>>> id(a[0])
135627396
>>> id(a[1])
135627396
>>> id(a[2])
135627396

       ~elh

-- 
Eric L. Howard           e l h @ o u t r e a c h n e t w o r k s . c o m
------------------------------------------------------------------------
www.OutreachNetworks.com                                    313.297.9900
------------------------------------------------------------------------
JabberID: elh@jabber.org                 Advocate of the Theocratic Rule


From rob@euglug.net  Wed Jul  9 21:22:05 2003
From: rob@euglug.net (Rob Hudson)
Date: Wed Jul  9 20:22:05 2003
Subject: [Tutor] sockets
Message-ID: <20030709172054.D37800@cogit8.org>

Hello,

I'm new to the list.  I'm taking a class at the local community college.
I work as a PHP coder doing web design and have learned Perl in the
past.  Python looked intriguing and so far I'm having fun with it.  I'm
from Oregon if anyone else here is nearby.  Anyway, here's my
question...

While reading a Randall Schwartz article on Perl and sockets[1], I decided
to rewrite his little perl code in python.  Here's the code:

#!/usr/bin/env python
import sys
from socket import *

if len(sys.argv) != 2:
    exit

host = sys.argv[1]
port = int(sys.argv[2])

# Create a socket
# AF_INET means the IP address protocol
# SOCK_STREAM means the TCP transfer protocol
sockobj = socket(AF_INET, SOCK_STREAM)
sockobj.connect((host, port))

data = sockobj.recv(1024)

print 'response from', host, 'port', port, 'was:'
print data

sockobj.close()


I call it like this:
python socket-test.py 132.163.4.203 13


My question is:  What if the data the server sends is more than 1024
bytes?  Python can't do this, right?

while (recv = sockobj.recv(1024)):
    data += recv

Specifically, I think Python can't make an assignment inside a
conditional.  Would you get the data, then check for NULL and break if
the data is empty?  Or check for EOF?  Something like that?

This code actually works since the data returned is small.  The other
thing to note is that since time servers don't expect any starting
message, they just send the time automatically and kill the socket.
That's why I don't need a sockobj.send(message) call.

Thanks!
-Rob

[1] http://www.stonehenge.com/merlyn/UnixReview/col47.html


From shalehperry@comcast.net  Wed Jul  9 21:42:02 2003
From: shalehperry@comcast.net (Sean 'Shaleh' Perry)
Date: Wed Jul  9 20:42:02 2003
Subject: [Tutor] sockets
In-Reply-To: <20030709172054.D37800@cogit8.org>
References: <20030709172054.D37800@cogit8.org>
Message-ID: <200307091740.56189.shalehperry@comcast.net>

On Wednesday 09 July 2003 17:20, Rob Hudson wrote:
>
> data = sockobj.recv(1024)
>
>
> I call it like this:
> python socket-test.py 132.163.4.203 13
>
>
> My question is:  What if the data the server sends is more than 1024
> bytes?  Python can't do this, right?
>
> while (recv = sockobj.recv(1024)):
>     data += recv
>
> Specifically, I think Python can't make an assignment inside a
> conditional.  Would you get the data, then check for NULL and break if
> the data is empty?  Or check for EOF?  Something like that?
>

you are correct, no assignment in conditionals.

One of the tricks to socket programming is the value passed to recv() is a 
MAXIMUM.  The OS may decide to only give you 1/3, 1/8, 5/8, etc. of that 
value.  So you have to check that you have received all of the data.
This leads to the recv being called in a loop and the value being checked 
until the proper amount has been received or the data contains what you 
expect it to.



From tony@tcapp.com  Wed Jul  9 23:16:02 2003
From: tony@tcapp.com (Tony Cappellini)
Date: Wed Jul  9 22:16:02 2003
Subject: [Tutor] os.name on Windows 98
In-Reply-To: <20030710002205.20659.77376.Mailman@mail.python.org>
Message-ID: <20030709190952.H51747-100000@yamato.yamato.com>

Why does os.name return 'nt' on a Windows 98 machine ?




From thomi@thomi.imail.net.nz  Thu Jul 10 00:04:01 2003
From: thomi@thomi.imail.net.nz (Thomas CLive Richards)
Date: Wed Jul  9 23:04:01 2003
Subject: [Tutor] communicating with low level hardware in python?
Message-ID: <20030710150322.5e893dfe.thomi@thomi.imail.net.nz>

Hey,

I'm writing an app which will talk to industrial scales through a serial
port. I'm using wxWindows to form a simple GUI, but now i need to set up
the serial port part of things.

What's the best way to do this? I don't know enough C to write it in C,
so it'll have to be python (and speed isn't an issue here). Any ideas? a
quick scan of the modules list didn't reveal anything special...

I'm hoping someone  out there has written a module which will help me..

Thanks in advance ;)

-- 

Thomi Richards,
thomi@thomi.imail.net.nz



From shalehperry@comcast.net  Thu Jul 10 02:33:01 2003
From: shalehperry@comcast.net (Sean 'Shaleh' Perry)
Date: Thu Jul 10 01:33:01 2003
Subject: [Tutor] communicating with low level hardware in python?
In-Reply-To: <20030710150322.5e893dfe.thomi@thomi.imail.net.nz>
References: <20030710150322.5e893dfe.thomi@thomi.imail.net.nz>
Message-ID: <200307092232.04456.shalehperry@comcast.net>

On Wednesday 09 July 2003 20:03, Thomas CLive Richards wrote:
> Hey,
>
> I'm writing an app which will talk to industrial scales through a serial
> port. I'm using wxWindows to form a simple GUI, but now i need to set up
> the serial port part of things.
>
> What's the best way to do this? I don't know enough C to write it in C,
> so it'll have to be python (and speed isn't an issue here). Any ideas? a
> quick scan of the modules list didn't reveal anything special...
>
> I'm hoping someone  out there has written a module which will help me..
>
> Thanks in advance ;)

a quick google for 'python serial' turns up:

http://pyserial.sourceforge.net/

trust in google ......



From thomi@thomi.imail.net.nz  Thu Jul 10 02:37:01 2003
From: thomi@thomi.imail.net.nz (Thomas CLive Richards)
Date: Thu Jul 10 01:37:01 2003
Subject: [Tutor] communicating with low level hardware in python?
In-Reply-To: <200307092232.04456.shalehperry@comcast.net>
References: <20030710150322.5e893dfe.thomi@thomi.imail.net.nz>
 <200307092232.04456.shalehperry@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <20030710173632.122b9d3e.thomi@thomi.imail.net.nz>

> http://pyserial.sourceforge.net/

ahhhh.. exactly what I was after.. thank you so much !

-- 

Thomi Richards,
thomi@thomi.imail.net.nz



From alan.gauld@blueyonder.co.uk  Thu Jul 10 04:22:01 2003
From: alan.gauld@blueyonder.co.uk (Alan Gauld)
Date: Thu Jul 10 03:22:01 2003
Subject: [Tutor] oo programming
References: 
Message-ID: <012f01c346b3$fc1e4b80$6401a8c0@xp>

The basic proinciples of OO design apply to any OO language.
Try looking on cetus-links.org for tutorials etc on OOD.

Also Bruce Eckels "Thinking in Python" web book has some hints,
and his "Thinking in Java" even more...albeit expressed in Java.

The general principles that I find most useful are to think
of the problem in terms of role-playing actors. Each actor has
a job, or responsibility, within the task. Work out what each
actor is responsible for and translate that into data and methods.

Remember too that whichever object holds a piece of data, that is
the object that should maniplulate that data.

HTH,

Alan G
Author of the Learn to Program web tutor
http://www.freenetpages.co.uk/hp/alan.gauld

----- Original Message -----
From: "Andrea Valle" 
To: "tutor" 
Sent: Wednesday, July 09, 2003 6:12 PM
Subject: [Tutor] oo programming


> Hi to all,
> I've started object oriented programming with Python after two years
of
> "functional" use...
> I'm having a lot of fun, but, being a self-taught, I don't know
exactly how
> to organize the software architecture: what is best to do, what is
worst,
> etc.
> Could anyone indicate me some links or books on the subject? Are
there
> Python resources related to the topic?
>
> thanks as usual
>
> best
>
> -a-
>
>
>
>
>
>



From thomi@thomi.imail.net.nz  Thu Jul 10 05:35:01 2003
From: thomi@thomi.imail.net.nz (Thomas CLive Richards)
Date: Thu Jul 10 04:35:01 2003
Subject: [Tutor] threading vs. forking?
Message-ID: <20030710203409.49491ce3.thomi@thomi.imail.net.nz>

Hi,

I'm *trying* to develop a program which (amongst other things) reads
information from a serial port and prints it in a nice GUI interface.

The problem i have is that i don't know when data is going to be sent to
the port, so i have to use a polling method to fetch the data. The
problem with that is that while the program is polling the serial port,
the GUI isn't getting updated. 

So, AFAIK, there are two methods around this. there are probably many
more ways to do this, but i haven't a clue what they are.

The first would be forking the process using os.fork(), and running the
serial port polling in one fork, and the GUI in another, and somehow
send the data to the GUI.

the other would be using threading. The problem with that is that I've
never done it before, and from reading the documentation, I can't see
how to get information from one thread to another. There is likely to be
a lot of information on the port, so the information passing would have
to be easy...

so, what are the differences between forking and threading? why would
you use one, and not the other?

thanks,



-- 

Thomi Richards,
thomi@thomi.imail.net.nz



From Zabelkind@web.de  Thu Jul 10 07:35:01 2003
From: Zabelkind@web.de (Mathias Mamsch)
Date: Thu Jul 10 06:35:01 2003
Subject: [Tutor] threading vs. forking?
References: <20030710203409.49491ce3.thomi@thomi.imail.net.nz>
Message-ID: <000c01c346cf$0b722370$0500a8c0@nias>

Threading is quite easy, once you know how it is done. I think for solving
your problem there are several advantages using a thread instead of a fork

If you fork, another process will be generated. So the complete memory of
the parent will be copied to another process - thats a waste of resources as
the child process does not need gui data. As you run in a 32 Bit enviroment
the new process will not get access to the data of the parent process. You
will have to use a shared memory or something to transfer data from the
child to the parent which is slower because you have to copy around your
data alot.
Another problem I had with forking is killing the forked process, when you
want to. A problem is for example, when the parent exits before the forked
child, you will get a ghost process.
That is all much easier with a thread. You can end, suspend and resume
threads from the parent easily. And if your parent exits suddenly the thread
will be ended automatically.

I think there are a lot of examples how threading works out there. I cannot
give you one at moment but look for example here:
http://mail.python.org/pipermail/thread-sig/2001-January/000568.html

Hope this helped a bit for your decision.

Regards, Mathias Mamsch


----- Original Message -----
From: "Thomas CLive Richards" 
To: 
Sent: Thursday, July 10, 2003 10:34 AM
Subject: [Tutor] threading vs. forking?


>
> Hi,
>
> I'm *trying* to develop a program which (amongst other things) reads
> information from a serial port and prints it in a nice GUI interface.
>
> The problem i have is that i don't know when data is going to be sent to
> the port, so i have to use a polling method to fetch the data. The
> problem with that is that while the program is polling the serial port,
> the GUI isn't getting updated.
>
> So, AFAIK, there are two methods around this. there are probably many
> more ways to do this, but i haven't a clue what they are.
>
> The first would be forking the process using os.fork(), and running the
> serial port polling in one fork, and the GUI in another, and somehow
> send the data to the GUI.
>
> the other would be using threading. The problem with that is that I've
> never done it before, and from reading the documentation, I can't see
> how to get information from one thread to another. There is likely to be
> a lot of information on the port, so the information passing would have
> to be easy...
>
> so, what are the differences between forking and threading? why would
> you use one, and not the other?
>
> thanks,
>
>
>
> --
>
> Thomi Richards,
> thomi@thomi.imail.net.nz
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Tutor maillist  -  Tutor@python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor



From op73418@mail.telepac.pt  Thu Jul 10 08:34:01 2003
From: op73418@mail.telepac.pt (Rodrigues)
Date: Thu Jul 10 07:34:01 2003
Subject: [Tutor] threading vs. forking?
In-Reply-To: <20030710203409.49491ce3.thomi@thomi.imail.net.nz>
Message-ID: 


> -----Original Message-----
> From: tutor-admin@python.org
> [mailto:tutor-admin@python.org]On Behalf Of
> Thomas CLive Richards
> Sent: quinta-feira, 10 de Julho de 2003 9:34
> To: tutor@python.org
> Subject: [Tutor] threading vs. forking?
>
>
>
> Hi,
>
> I'm *trying* to develop a program which (amongst other things) reads
> information from a serial port and prints it in a nice GUI
> interface.
>
> The problem i have is that i don't know when data is going
> to be sent to
> the port, so i have to use a polling method to fetch the data. The
> problem with that is that while the program is polling the
> serial port,
> the GUI isn't getting updated.
>
> So, AFAIK, there are two methods around this. there are
> probably many
> more ways to do this, but i haven't a clue what they are.
>
> The first would be forking the process using os.fork(), and
> running the
> serial port polling in one fork, and the GUI in another, and somehow
> send the data to the GUI.
>

You can use a pipe to have the polling process pass whatever it has to
the gui process.

> the other would be using threading. The problem with that
> is that I've
> never done it before, and from reading the documentation, I
> can't see
> how to get information from one thread to another. There is
> likely to be
> a lot of information on the port, so the information
> passing would have
> to be easy...
>

The best way I know is to use the Queue module along with the
high-level threading module. It implements a Queue that's thread-safe.
So you could do it like this: have the gui thread (the main thread?) a
public attribute referencing the queue. The polling thread just pushes
whatever data it has to this queue, which then is popped off by the
gui thread and processed accordingly

> so, what are the differences between forking and threading?
> why would
> you use one, and not the other?
>

This is a tough question. Threads are easier when it comes to
communication since global memory is shared between threads. But this
also poses problems of it's own.

I'm leaving this one to the more knowledgeable people in the list. I'm
eager to hear their responses.

> thanks,
>
> Thomi Richards,
> thomi@thomi.imail.net.nz

With my best regards,
G. Rodrigues



From tpc@csua.berkeley.edu  Thu Jul 10 11:45:02 2003
From: tpc@csua.berkeley.edu (tpc@csua.berkeley.edu)
Date: Thu Jul 10 10:45:02 2003
Subject: [Repost] Re: [Tutor] newbie re question
Message-ID: <20030710074354.A19966-100000@localhost.name>

hi Danny, I sent this to the list two days ago and to you yesterday and
wasn't sure if you received it.

---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Wed, 9 Jul 2003 07:33:03 -0700 (PDT)
From: tpc@csua.berkeley.edu
To: dyoo@hkn.eecs.berkeley.edu
Subject: Re: [Tutor] newbie re question (fwd)

hi Danny, I sent this to the list yesterday and wasn't sure if you
received it.

---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2003 10:41:44 -0700 (PDT)
From: tpc@csua.berkeley.edu
To: tutor@python.org
Subject: Re: [Tutor] newbie re question


hi Danny,

ah yes, I have seen Ping at various parties (and wearing a PythonLabs
shirt no less!).  But I digress.  I am still confused why you provided for
a negative lookahead.  I looked at amk's definition of a negative lookahead,
and it seems to say the regex will not match if the negative lookahead
condition is met.  So:

>>> testsearch = re.compile('tetsuro(?!hello)', re.IGNORECASE)
>>> testsearch.search('tetsurohello')
>>> testsearch.search('hitetsuroone')
<_sre.SRE_Match object at 0x860e4a0>

Now in the case of:

>>> myre = re.compile(r'http://[\w\.-]+\.?(?![\w.-/])')

you are looking for 'http://' then one or more word characters, periods
and hyphens, and an optional period and then a negative lookahead of a
word character, any character, a hyphen and a forward slash.  Granted,
your regex may have been sloppy example and you might have meant a
negative lookahead of a word character, a period, a hyphen and a forward
slash.  I still do not understand why you provided for one, and if you had
a good reason, why the sfgate url would match at all, since you clearly
had a word character, period, or hyphen following the set of characters
you were allowing for, including the optional period.  Here is an example
of something similar that perplexes:

>>> testsearch = re.compile(r'tetsuro\.?(?!hello)', re.IGNORECASE)
>>> testsearch.search('tetsurohello')
>>> testsearch.search('tetsuro.hello')
<_sre.SRE_Match object at 0x8612028>
>>> match = testsearch.search('tetsuro.hello')
>>> match.group()
'tetsuro'
>>> match = testsearch.search('tetsuro..hello')
>>> match.group()
'tetsuro.'

Why wasn't the first period caught ?

On Mon, 30 Jun 2003, Danny Yoo wrote:

>
>
> On Mon, 30 Jun 2003 tpc@csua.berkeley.edu wrote:
>
> > hi Danny, I had a question about your quick intro to Python lesson sheet
> > you gave out back in March 2001.
>
> Hi tpc,
>
>
>
> Some things will never die.  *grin*
>
>
>
> > The last page talks about formulating a regular expression to handle
> > URLs, and you have the following:
> >
> > myre = re.compile(r'http://[\w\.-/]+\.?(?![\w.-/])')
>
>
>
> Ok.  Let's split that up using verbose notation:
>
>
> ###
> myre = re.compile(r'''http://            ## protocol
>                       [\w\.-/]+          ## followed by a bunch of "word"
>                                          ## characters
>
>                       \.?                ## followed by an optional
>                                          ## period.
>
>                       (?!                ## Topped with a negative
>                                          ## lookahead for
>                             [\w.-/]      ## "word" character.
>
>                       )''', re.VERBOSE)
> ###
>
>
> The page:
>
>     http://www.python.org/doc/lib/re-syntax.html
>
> has more details about some of the regular expression syntax.  AMK has
> written a nice regex HOWTO here:
>
>     http://www.amk.ca/python/howto/regex/regex.html
>
> which you might find useful.
>
>
>
>
> > I understand \w stands for any word character, and \. means escaped
> > period, and ? means zero or one instances of a character or set.  I did
> > a myre.search('http://www.hotmail.com') which yielded a result, but I am
> > confused as to why
> >
> > myre.search('http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/gate/archive/2003/06/29/gavin29.DTL')
> >
> > would work, since there is a '=' and you don't provide for one in the
> > regular expression.
>
>
> Very true.  It should, however, match against the negative lookahead ---
> the regex tries to look ahead to see that it can match something like:
>
>     "This is an url: http://python.org.  Isn't that neat?"
>
>
> The negative lookup should match right here:
>
>     "This is an url: http://python.org.  Isn't that neat?"
>                                        ^
>
> In your url above, the negative lookahead should actually hit the question
> mark first before it sees '='.  That regex was a sloppy example; I should
> have been more careful with it, but I was in a hurry when I wrote that
> intro...  *grin*
>
>
>
> If you're in the Berkeley area, by the way, you might want to see if
> Ka-Ping Yee is planning another CS 198 class in the future:
>
>     http://zesty.ca/bc/info.html
>
>
>
>
>
> Anyway, we can experiment with this more easily by introducing a group
> into the regular expression:
>
> ###
> myre = re.compile(r'''
>                     (                  ## group 1
>
>                       http://            ## protocol
>                       [\w\.-/]+          ## followed by a bunch of "word"
>                                          ## characters
>
>                       \.?                ## followed by an optional
>                                          ## period.
>
>                     )                  ## end group
>
>
>                       (?!                ## Topped with a negative
>                                          ## lookahead for
>                             [\w.-/]      ## "word" character.
>
>                       )''', re.VERBOSE)
> ###
>
>
>
> Let's check it now:
>
> ###
> >>> match =
> myre.search('http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/gate/archive/2003/06/29/gavin29.DTL')
> >>> match.group(1)
> 'http://www.sfgate.com/cgi'
> ###
>
>
>
> Oiii!  The regular expression is broken.  What has happened is that I've
> incorrectly defined the hyphen in the character group.  That is, instead
> of
>
>
>     [\w\.-/]+
>
>
> I should have done:
>
>     [\w./-]+
>
>
> instead, to keep the regex engine from treating the hyphen as a span of
> characters (like "[a-z]", or "[0-9]").  You can then introduce the other
> characters into the "word" character class, and then it should correctly
> match the sfgate url.
>
>
>
> I hope this helps!
>
>





From silviucc@home.ro  Thu Jul 10 13:47:10 2003
From: silviucc@home.ro (Silviu Cojocaru)
Date: Thu Jul 10 12:47:10 2003
Subject: [Tutor] reading matrixes from a file
Message-ID: 

I'm trying to read matrixes from a given file. I have writen three 
functions for this:

# this will be used to initialize a matrix

def initMatrix(matrix_,rows_):
        matrix_ = ''
        matrix_ = list(matrix_)
        for i in range(rows_):
                null = ' '
                null = list(null)
                matrix_ = matrix_ + null
        return matrix_

# this one does the actual readinf from the file

def readMatrix(filename):
        f = file(filename,'r')
        cr = f.readline()
        rows = int(cr[0])
        matrix =''
        matrix = initMatrix(matrix,rows)
        matrix = list(matrix)
        for i in range(rows):
                line = f.readline()
                line2 = ''
                line2 = list(line2)
                for j in range(len(line)):
                        if line[j] == ' ' or line[j] == '\n' or line[j] 
== '\r':                                continue
                        else:
                                line2 = line2 + list(line[j])
                matrix[i] = list(matrix[i]) + line2
                del(matrix[i][0])
        f.close()
        return matrix

# I use this one to convert, for example, '1' to 1 or '0' to 0

def intMatrix(matrix):
        for row in range(len(matrix)):
                for col in range(len(matrix[row])):
                        matrix[row][col] = int(matrix[row][col])
        return matrix

The problem:

These functions work well for this file:
http://www.computing.dcu.ie/~cdaly/ire_comp/ire01/problems/test2/test1.dat

but not for this one:
http://www.computing.dcu.ie/~cdaly/ire_comp/ire01/problems/test2/test8.dat

For this one I get only the first line. I have triple checked the 
function and I have no clue to what may be wrong. 

Please help me :)

-- 
Registered Linux user #298569
QOTD:
	"Do you smell something burning or is it me?"
		-- Joan of Arc



From jeff@ccvcorp.com  Thu Jul 10 14:24:01 2003
From: jeff@ccvcorp.com (Jeff Shannon)
Date: Thu Jul 10 13:24:01 2003
Subject: [Tutor] threading vs. forking?
References: <20030710203409.49491ce3.thomi@thomi.imail.net.nz>
Message-ID: <3F0DA100.9030509@ccvcorp.com>

Thomas CLive Richards wrote:

>Hi,
>
>I'm *trying* to develop a program which (amongst other things) reads
>information from a serial port and prints it in a nice GUI interface.
>
>[...]
>
>So, AFAIK, there are two methods around this. there are probably many
>more ways to do this, but i haven't a clue what they are.
>
>The first would be forking the process using os.fork(), and running the
>serial port polling in one fork, and the GUI in another, and somehow
>send the data to the GUI.
>
>the other would be using threading. The problem with that is that I've
>never done it before, and from reading the documentation, I can't see
>how to get information from one thread to another. There is likely to be
>a lot of information on the port, so the information passing would have
>to be easy...
>

If you fork, then you have two independent processes, which need to talk 
to each other in some way.  You could set up a pipe or a socket 
connection.  However, you'll then have the same problem talking to the 
pipe/socket that you currently have talking to the serial port directly 
-- you'll need *some* method of polling to see when there's new data there.

Threads are probably your best / most robust option here.  There's a 
number of different ways to pass data back and forth between threads; 
the most robust of those is the Queue module.  Queues are automatically 
thread-safe -- hand one end of the Queue to each thread.  The worker 
thread can sit in a loop polling the serial port; when something comes 
in, it packages up the data and drops it in the Queue.  The GUI thread 
checks the queue when it has a chance (either in a timer event or an 
idle handler), and if there's data there it pulls it out and processes 
it.  The queue will make sure that the data is retrieved in the same 
order that it's inserted, and that nothing gets overwritten or otherwise 
mangled.  If you need to also send from your serial port, as well as 
receive, you can have another Queue that goes in the other direction. 
 Your worker thread would then alternate between checking if there's 
data to read on the serial port, and checking if there's anything in the 
Queue that it should send on the serial port.  Note that a worker thread 
cannot be killed from the main thread -- if you want a worker thread to 
end before the entire program shuts down, that thread needs to end on 
its own, so you may want to have some way to ask that thread to commit 
suicide.  This could be a matter of sending a special token in the 
output-queue, if you have one, or it could be an independent threading 
signal.  

One other possibility, depending on the constraints of your application, 
would be to forget about threading and just check the serial port 
directly from a timer event.  You can look at the serial port, say, ten 
times per second, and read any data that's waiting there.  However, this 
method is far more likely to be delayed and possibly miss data -- if 
serial data comes in faster than you're reading it, you'll overflow the 
serial port buffer and lose data.  But that might not really be an issue 
-- if you're reading a scale, and are just grabbing the current weight, 
it probably doesn't matter much if you miss a sample or two.

Jeff Shannon
Technician/Programmer
Credit International




From silviucc@home.ro  Thu Jul 10 14:38:07 2003
From: silviucc@home.ro (Silviu Cojocaru)
Date: Thu Jul 10 13:38:07 2003
Subject: [Tutor] reading matrixes from a file
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 

On Thu, 10 Jul 2003, Silviu Cojocaru wrote:


:) Never mind, I fixed the problem. It was in the function that read the 
matrix from the file. I had a bad way of getting the number of rows :)

-- 
Registered Linux user #298569
Love is like the measles; we all have to go through it.
		-- Jerome K. Jerome



From Sean Abrahams   Thu Jul 10 16:56:02 2003
From: Sean Abrahams  (Sean Abrahams)
Date: Thu Jul 10 15:56:02 2003
Subject: [Tutor] Web Form Error Handling
Message-ID: <1001198420906.20030710125845@sfsu.edu>

I'm learning to write unit tests and am trying to write them for a web
application I'm working on.

I'm currently writing a test that is to purposefully fail by passing
invalid data to a function. However this brought me to thinking about
how to handle errors.

Let me set up a hypothetical scenario.

I have a web form with name and age as its two fields. When a person
enters his/her information and submits the form, I take the two fields
and create a dict that contains {'name' : 'Foo', 'age' : '82'}.

I pass this information to a function called, insertData which
looks something like this:

def insertData(data):

    # test data for validity
    if not data['name'].isalpha():
       raise InvalidDataError(data['name'], "Name contains non-alpha
       characters")
    if not data['age'].isdigit():
       raise InvalidDataError(data['age'], "Age contains non-digit
       characters")
    
    sql = """
    INSERT INTO people (name, age) VALUES ('%s', '%s')
    """ % (data['name'], data['age'])

    executeSQL(sql)

I should first check to see if the data is valid, meaning that the
name contains only alpha characters and the age only containing
numeric characters.

If I raise an exception, how would one handle the reprinting of the
web form with a red * next to the field that contains invalid data? If
one field is in error, I can see that upon receiving an exception you
can have your code just reprint the web form with the red star, but
what about when both fields are in error, do you have the exception
create a list which then your code checks to see if it exists and then
loops through it to know what fields are in error?

And then again, perhaps I'm completely wrong and am going about this
in an amateur manner.

I realize this is more of a style question, but that's what I'm
interested in discussing.

Thanks,
--Sean



From samacomber@comcast.net  Thu Jul 10 17:34:02 2003
From: samacomber@comcast.net (Scott Macomber)
Date: Thu Jul 10 16:34:02 2003
Subject: [Tutor] python scripts
Message-ID: <200307090501.23097.samacomber@comcast.net>

I recently started toying with some python programming.  I enjoy it.  How=
ever,=20
when I save a python file after producing it in a text editor (e.g., spam=
=2Epy)=20
the interpreter can't locate it to run it as a script afterwards.  I don'=
t=20
know where I should save the file.  Furthermore, I don't know how to=20
determine where I should save the file.  I have some texts that suggest=20
various places, but I need to change permissions, etc. =20

I am running SuSe 8.1.  The version of python I am using is 2.2.1. =20

Thanks for suggestions.


From mwelsh@abwatley.com  Thu Jul 10 17:34:10 2003
From: mwelsh@abwatley.com (Michael Welsh)
Date: Thu Jul 10 16:34:10 2003
Subject: [Tutor] asynchat and queue?
Message-ID: <200307092048.32109.mwelsh@abwatley.com>

I'm trying to learn how to use sockets in Python. =20

Using samples available on the web, I've managed to set up a simple echo=20
'server' using asyncore and asynchat (below).  I built a small GUI (wxPytho=
n)=20
client that sends a bit of text to the server and recieve it back.  I can=20
even run multiple clients.  The server responds to the client that sent the=
=20
message.   Now, I'd like to take the next step and have the server respond =
to=20
ALL clients, regardless of which client sent the message.

=46rom my web browsing and book reading it may be suitable to use Queues.  =
This=20
is where I am having difficulty.  I'm probably way off, but.. I believe I=20
want the server to receive the clients' msgs and throw them into a queue.  =
A=20
separate action would read from the queue and act on it (possibly sending i=
t=20
back out to all the clients then logging to a db).=20

I may not be on the right track, I can't find simple examples anywhere of=20
using queues with asyncore/asynchat.

Anybody have any insight?
Michael

p.s.  I'm aware that twisted exits.  I'm doing this exercise to get a bette=
r=20
understanding of the Python fundamentals.

p.p.s Python 2.2 on NT and Linux


#  Simple Server --------------------------------------------------------
import asyncore
import asynchat
import socket

class MainServerSocket(asyncore.dispatcher):
    def __init__(self, port):
        print 'initing Listening Port'
        asyncore.dispatcher.__init__(self)
        self.create_socket(socket.AF_INET, socket.SOCK_STREAM)
        self.bind(('',port))
        self.listen(5)
    def handle_accept(self):
        newSocket, address =3D self.accept()
        print "Connected from", address
        SecondaryServerSocket(newSocket)

class SecondaryServerSocket(asynchat.async_chat):
    def __init__(self, *args):
        print 'initing OutBound Port'
        asynchat.async_chat.__init__(self, *args)
        self.set_terminator('\n')
        self.data =3D []
    def collect_incoming_data(self, data):
        self.data.append(data)
    def found_terminator(self):
        self.push(''.join(self.data))
        self.data =3D []
    def handle_close(self):
        print "Disconnected from", self.getpeername()
        self.close()

MainServerSocket(50006)
asyncore.loop()
# -------------------------------------------------------------



From Sean Abrahams   Thu Jul 10 17:34:22 2003
From: Sean Abrahams  (Sean Abrahams)
Date: Thu Jul 10 16:34:22 2003
Subject: [Tutor] Web Form Error Handling
Message-ID: <901193375390.20030710113439@sfsu.edu>

I'm learning to write unit tests and am trying to write them for a web
application I'm working on.

I'm currently writing a test that is to purposefully fail by passing
invalid data to a function. However this brought me to thinking about
how to handle errors.

Let me set up a hypothetical scenario.

I have a web form with name and age as its two fields. When a person
enters his/her information and submits the form, I take the two fields
and create a dict that contains {'name' : 'Foo', 'age' : '82'}.

I pass this information to a function called, insertData which
looks something like this:

def insertData(data):

    # test data for validity
    if not data['name'].isalpha():
       raise InvalidDataError(data['name'], "Name contains non-alpha
       characters")
    if not data['age'].isdigit():
       raise InvalidDataError(data['age'], "Age contains non-digit
       characters")
    
    sql = """
    INSERT INTO people (name, age) VALUES ('%s', '%s')
    """ % (data['name'], data['age'])

    executeSQL(sql)

I should first check to see if the data is valid, meaning that the
name contains only alpha characters and the age only containing
numeric characters.

If I raise an exception, how would one handle the reprinting of the
web form with a red * next to the field that contains invalid data? If
one field is in error, I can see that upon receiving an exception you
can have your code just reprint the web form with the red star, but
what about when both fields are in error, do you have the exception
create a list which then your code checks to see if it exists and then
loops through it to know what fields are in error?

And then again, perhaps I'm completely wrong and am going about this
in an amateur manner.

I realize this is more of a style question, but that's what I'm
interested in discussing.

Thanks,
--Sean



From dyoo@hkn.eecs.berkeley.edu  Thu Jul 10 17:57:01 2003
From: dyoo@hkn.eecs.berkeley.edu (Danny Yoo)
Date: Thu Jul 10 16:57:01 2003
Subject: [Repost] Re: [Tutor] newbie re question
In-Reply-To: <20030710074354.A19966-100000@localhost.name>
Message-ID: 


On Thu, 10 Jul 2003 tpc@csua.berkeley.edu wrote:

> hi Danny, I sent this to the list two days ago and to you yesterday and
> wasn't sure if you received it.


Hi tpc,


I'm still trying to catch up with email; my apologies for not responding
to this sooner.



> I am still confused why you provided for a negative lookahead.  I looked
> at amk's definition of a negative lookahead, and it seems to say the
> regex will not match if the negative lookahead condition is met.  So:
>
> >>> testsearch = re.compile('tetsuro(?!hello)', re.IGNORECASE)
> >>> testsearch.search('tetsurohello')
> >>> testsearch.search('hitetsuroone')
> <_sre.SRE_Match object at 0x860e4a0>


The negative lookahead in the URL detection routines allow us to find URLs
at the end of sentences.  For example, the string:


    """You can find out more information about Python
       at http://python.org/doc/Newbies.html.  It's very helpful."""

contains an embedded URL that can be tricky to pull out correctly.
Normally, periods are legal "word" characters in that regular expression,
and a regular expression without negative lookahead will probably grab
"http://python.org/doc/Newbies.html.", including the last period.



Looking back on the regular expression:

    (http://
          [\w\.-]+            ## bunch of "word" characters
    )

          \.?
          (?![\w.-/])


the negative lookup is there to detect a period that's being used to end a
sentence, and allows us to exclude it so that we can correctly extract
"http://python.org/doc/Newbies.html" without the trailing period.





> Here is an example of something similar that perplexes:
>
> >>> testsearch = re.compile(r'tetsuro\.?(?!hello)', re.IGNORECASE)
> >>> match = testsearch.search('tetsuro.hello')
> >>> match.group()
> 'tetsuro'


In this first case, we allow the period to be optional: that's the key
that allows this to match.  The regular expression, then, eats its input
up to 'tetsuro', and the negative lookahead is happy, since the remaining
input --- that lone period '.' --- is not equal to 'hello'.



If we remove '?' from the query, you'll see what you probably expect:

###
>>> import re
>>> testsearch = re.compile(r'tetsuro\.(?!hello)', re.IGNORECASE)
>>> match = testsearch.search('tetsuro.hello')
>>> match.group()
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "", line 1, in ?
AttributeError: 'NoneType' object has no attribute 'group'
###


And now it doesn't match at all.




> >>> match = testsearch.search('tetsuro..hello')
> >>> match.group()
> 'tetsuro.'
>
> Why wasn't the first period caught ?



Going back to the example,

###
testsearch = re.compile(r'tetsuro\.?(?!hello)', re.IGNORECASE)
match = testsearch.search('tetsuro.hello')
###

If the first period catches, then the negative lookahead constraint gets
violated since the rest of the input, 'hello', matches against (?!hello).
The regular expression engine is forced by constraint to not match that
period.


I have to admit: I'm not a regular expression guru.  *grin*  I have heard,
though, that the book "Mastering Regular Expressions",

    http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/regex/


Good luck!



From gus.tabares@verizon.net  Thu Jul 10 18:41:01 2003
From: gus.tabares@verizon.net (Gus Tabares)
Date: Thu Jul 10 17:41:01 2003
Subject: [Tutor] python scripts
In-Reply-To: <200307090501.23097.samacomber@comcast.net>
Message-ID: 

Scott,

	Why not save it to your home directory? As long as your python is located
in your PATH you should have no problems executing your script after you
have made it executable. If you are importing your script/module from the
interpreter, your home directory (or wherever you're working from) must be
in your PYTHONPATH which is accessible through sys.path.


HTH,
Gus

-----Original Message-----
From: tutor-admin@python.org [mailto:tutor-admin@python.org]On Behalf Of
Scott Macomber
Sent: Wednesday, July 09, 2003 5:01 AM
To: tutor@python.org
Subject: [Tutor] python scripts


I recently started toying with some python programming.  I enjoy it.
However,
when I save a python file after producing it in a text editor (e.g.,
spam.py)
the interpreter can't locate it to run it as a script afterwards.  I don't
know where I should save the file.  Furthermore, I don't know how to
determine where I should save the file.  I have some texts that suggest
various places, but I need to change permissions, etc.

I am running SuSe 8.1.  The version of python I am using is 2.2.1.

Thanks for suggestions.

_______________________________________________
Tutor maillist  -  Tutor@python.org
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor



From guillermo.fernandez@epfl.ch  Thu Jul 10 19:10:02 2003
From: guillermo.fernandez@epfl.ch (Guillermo Fernandez)
Date: Thu Jul 10 18:10:02 2003
Subject: [Tutor] Bits operations
Message-ID: <3F0DE415.6090805@epfl.ch>

Cheers,

I'm playing with crypto algorithms (I just get out of the exam and I'm 
kind of masochist ;-) and there's of course bit operations.

Here's my problems:
1- How much bits does an integer take? I would like to play with 32 bits 
words and I don't really know how to limit this and specially fix the 
size in python (they say an int is represented by a long with _at least_ 
32 bits...).
2- I've not seen any binary representation of integers (thus there exist 
octal and hexa...). It's easier to see something like 00101001B... does 
it exist?
3- I've seen some bit-sting operations. Is there an easy way of reading 
the value of a bit in python in a straightforward manner? (for example 
"the bit i of integer n has a value 1 or 0?").

Could you please point me to a source of information or give me some 
comments?

Thanks!!

Guille



From ckasso@sprynet.com  Thu Jul 10 19:29:02 2003
From: ckasso@sprynet.com (Chris Kassopulo)
Date: Thu Jul 10 18:29:02 2003
Subject: [Tutor] basic import question
In-Reply-To: <3F0B12DE.10906@ccvcorp.com>
References: <20030708143915.5f0e225e.ckasso@sprynet.com>
 <3F0B12DE.10906@ccvcorp.com>
Message-ID: <20030710185854.3abe2d9c.ckasso@sprynet.com>

 > "Jeff Shannon"   wrote:
 > Chris Kassopulo wrote:
 > 
 > >def main():
 > >    print "hello world"
 > >main() 
 > >
 > 
 > There's two code blocks in this file.  (Any line followed by a series of 
 > further-indented lines can be seen as a code block.)  Everything in the 
 > block that starts "def main():" is processed to create a function 
 > object, which is bound to the name "main", but it does *not* get 
 > executed at the time that it's defined.  The second code block consists 
 > of the single statement "main()", which then executes the function 
 > object that was previously created.
 > 
 > Hope that makes a bit more sense now...
 > 
   Yes it does.  For some reason I was forgeting about what
   the def main() statement does and thought that an import
   would just execute the rest of the code.  As Magnus asked,
   "what made you think importing it would make it behave
   differently?".  It doesn't.  Thank you all for the
   clarification.
   
   Chris


From idiot1@netzero.net  Thu Jul 10 19:45:04 2003
From: idiot1@netzero.net (Kirk Bailey)
Date: Thu Jul 10 18:45:04 2003
Subject: [Tutor] fhat the wuck?
Message-ID: <3F0CDA55.2070404@netzero.net>

OK, all you happy hackers, ready for some REALLY odd programming?


Free Esoteric, Obfuscated, Unusual and Wierd Programming Languages

Fnord!

-- 

end

Cheers!
         Kirk D Bailey
                               think
http://www.howlermonkey.net/ +-----+ http://www.tinylist.org/
http://www.listville.net/    | BOX | http://www.sacredelectron.org/
                              +-----+
"Thou art free"-ERIS          think    'Got a light?'-Promethieus

Fnord.




From idiot1@netzero.net  Thu Jul 10 19:46:46 2003
From: idiot1@netzero.net (Kirk Bailey)
Date: Thu Jul 10 18:46:46 2003
Subject: [Tutor] archives without using cgi scripts
Message-ID: <3F0CCE0B.3050006@netzero.net>

What? HERESY!
Well, ok, but it works.
  I wrote a page about making a simple but effective email list archiver and reader 
WITHOUT USING CGI SCRIPTS. No, no, it really is possible, it works, it's practical.
You DO have to be able to do ssi includes, but many  hosts that are real tight about 
letting you run your own scripts- some don't let you do ANY scripts, others only let you 
access the limited library they  have inspected and improved- will cheerfully let you do 
ssi includes.
http://www.tinylist.org/archivereaders.shtml


-- 

end

Cheers!
         Kirk D Bailey
                               think
http://www.howlermonkey.net/ +-----+ http://www.tinylist.org/
http://www.listville.net/    | BOX | http://www.sacredelectron.org/
                              +-----+
"Thou art free"-ERIS          think    'Got a light?'-Promethieus

Fnord.




From magnus@thinkware.se  Thu Jul 10 19:59:01 2003
From: magnus@thinkware.se (Magnus =?iso-8859-1?Q?Lyck=E5?=)
Date: Thu Jul 10 18:59:01 2003
Subject: [Tutor] os.name on Windows 98
In-Reply-To: <20030709190952.H51747-100000@yamato.yamato.com>
References: <20030710002205.20659.77376.Mailman@mail.python.org>
Message-ID: <5.2.1.1.0.20030711005155.073e0cf8@www.thinkware.se>

At 19:14 2003-07-09 -0700, Tony Cappellini wrote:
>Why does os.name return 'nt' on a Windows 98 machine ?

Read The Fine Manual:

"os.name
   The name of the operating system dependant module imported..."

If its any consolation, it returns 'posix' on all Unix-like
operating system, regardless of whether it's Linux, AIX or
whatever...

You can also use sys.platform, and on Linux that says 'linux2',
which is a lot more detail, but on Win2k it says 'win32' and
I guess is says the same on win98. Otherwise, that is really
what you should use to figure out what kind of computer you
are running on.

This is a bit of a shortcoming, since not all things work
the same way on Win98 and the NT-derived operating systems.

Why does your program need to know this?


--
Magnus Lycka (It's really Lyckå), magnus@thinkware.se
Thinkware AB, Sweden, www.thinkware.se
I code Python ~ The Agile Programming Language 



From magnus@thinkware.se  Thu Jul 10 20:04:02 2003
From: magnus@thinkware.se (Magnus =?iso-8859-1?Q?Lyck=E5?=)
Date: Thu Jul 10 19:04:02 2003
Subject: [Tutor] threading vs. forking?
In-Reply-To: <20030710203409.49491ce3.thomi@thomi.imail.net.nz>
Message-ID: <5.2.1.1.0.20030711010655.073fb480@www.thinkware.se>

At 20:34 2003-07-10 +1200, Thomas CLive Richards wrote:
>The problem i have is that i don't know when data is going to be sent to
>the port, so i have to use a polling method to fetch the data. The
>problem with that is that while the program is polling the serial port,
>the GUI isn't getting updated.

What GUI? For wxPython see
http://wiki.wxpython.org/index.cgi/LongRunningTasks



--
Magnus Lycka (It's really Lyckå), magnus@thinkware.se
Thinkware AB, Sweden, www.thinkware.se
I code Python ~ The Agile Programming Language 



From magnus@thinkware.se  Thu Jul 10 20:07:02 2003
From: magnus@thinkware.se (Magnus =?iso-8859-1?Q?Lyck=E5?=)
Date: Thu Jul 10 19:07:02 2003
Subject: [Tutor] threading vs. forking?
In-Reply-To: <5.2.1.1.0.20030711010655.073fb480@www.thinkware.se>
References: <20030710203409.49491ce3.thomi@thomi.imail.net.nz>
Message-ID: <5.2.1.1.0.20030711011047.073c74a0@www.thinkware.se>

At 01:08 2003-07-11 +0200, Magnus Lyck=E5 wrote:
>At 20:34 2003-07-10 +1200, Thomas CLive Richards wrote:
>>The problem i have is that i don't know when data is going to be sent to
>>the port, so i have to use a polling method to fetch the data. The
>>problem with that is that while the program is polling the serial port,
>>the GUI isn't getting updated.
>
>What GUI? For wxPython see
>http://wiki.wxpython.org/index.cgi/LongRunningTasks

And for Tkinter (and PyQt) see
http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Cookbook/Python/Recipe/82965


--
Magnus Lycka (It's really Lyckå), magnus@thinkware.se
Thinkware AB, Sweden, www.thinkware.se
I code Python ~ The Agile Programming Language=20



From tony@tcapp.com  Thu Jul 10 20:16:24 2003
From: tony@tcapp.com (Tony Cappellini)
Date: Thu Jul 10 19:16:24 2003
Subject: [Tutor] os.name on Windows 98
In-Reply-To: <5.2.1.1.0.20030711005155.073e0cf8@www.thinkware.se>
Message-ID: <20030710160650.S66938-100000@yamato.yamato.com>


Hello Magnus,

> >Why does os.name return 'nt' on a Windows 98 machine ?
The question should have been "Why does os.name return the wrong name for
the OS on a Windows 98 machine ?


os.name obviously returns "some" name for the OS, but not the correct one
in this case. So the manual is of no use becaus eit does not explain
why the function returns the wrong name.

> You can also use sys.platform, and on Linux that says 'linux2',
this isn't any better, as it doesn't differentiate between Windows 2000,
and Win98.
What's the point of providing a function that doesn't return the correct
info, or ambiguous information ?


> which is a lot more detail, but on Win2k it says 'win32' and
> I guess is says the same on win98. Otherwise, that is really
> what you should use to figure out what kind of computer you
> are running on.
I won't use it if it doesn't give me the correct information.

> Why does your program need to know this?

Because different drivers are required to talk to various hardware, on
each OS, and I need to make the differentiation in order to know which
driver to use.

thanks

Tony




From jeff@ccvcorp.com  Thu Jul 10 20:26:01 2003
From: jeff@ccvcorp.com (Jeff Shannon)
Date: Thu Jul 10 19:26:01 2003
Subject: [Tutor] Bits operations
References: <3F0DE415.6090805@epfl.ch>
Message-ID: <3F0DF5D4.9050304@ccvcorp.com>

Guillermo Fernandez wrote:

> 1- How much bits does an integer take? I would like to play with 32 
> bits words and I don't really know how to limit this and specially fix 
> the size in python (they say an int is represented by a long with _at 
> least_ 32 bits...). 


A Python integer, IIRC, uses whatever the given platform's C long is. 
 For most systems (i.e., 32bit platforms), this is 32 bits.  (Note that 
for most 32-bit platforms, C compilers use the same size for a long and 
an int ...)  However, on 64-bit platforms this would probably be 64 bits.

> 2- I've not seen any binary representation of integers (thus there 
> exist octal and hexa...). It's easier to see something like 
> 00101001B... does it exist? 


There isn't a built-in function to do this, but it's not too difficult 
to write one.  (You can find several examples in the archives of this 
list.)  However, you may be better off using hex -- with a little bit of 
practice, it's not too hard to recognize each hex digit as a pattern of 
four bits.

> 3- I've seen some bit-sting operations. Is there an easy way of 
> reading the value of a bit in python in a straightforward manner? (for 
> example "the bit i of integer n has a value 1 or 0?"). 


The best way to do this is to bitwise-AND your unknown byte with a known 
constant.

if myvar & 0x01:
    # the first (least significant) bit is set
if myvar & 0x04:
    # the third-least significant bit is set
if myvar & 0x80:
    # the 8th (i.e. most significant) bit is set

Note that any byte can be uniquely represented with two hex digits, and 
it doesn't take long before you can see that 0x0C (12) is equivalent to 
binary 0000 1100.

Jeff Shannon
Technician/Programmer
Credit International




From thomi@thomi.imail.net.nz  Thu Jul 10 20:26:11 2003
From: thomi@thomi.imail.net.nz (Thomas CLive Richards)
Date: Thu Jul 10 19:26:11 2003
Subject: [Tutor] os.name on Windows 98
In-Reply-To: <20030710160650.S66938-100000@yamato.yamato.com>
References: <5.2.1.1.0.20030711005155.073e0cf8@www.thinkware.se>
 <20030710160650.S66938-100000@yamato.yamato.com>
Message-ID: <20030711112529.548e7a86.thomi@thomi.imail.net.nz>


> > You can also use sys.platform, and on Linux that says 'linux2',
> this isn't any better, as it doesn't differentiate between Windows
> 2000, and Win98.
> What's the point of providing a function that doesn't return the
> correct info, or ambiguous information ?
> 

perhaps the people who originally design the function thought that
windows2000 and windows98 were going to be pretty much identical in the
way they handle hardware, which is why they use the same name for both?

come to think of it, are there any huge differences between the two??

besides, with python being available on many different OS's, it kinda
makes sense to have several os "groupings", don't you think?

anyway, that's my $0.02...

-- 

Thomi Richards,
thomi@thomi.imail.net.nz



From missive@hotmail.com  Thu Jul 10 20:28:02 2003
From: missive@hotmail.com (Lee Harr)
Date: Thu Jul 10 19:28:02 2003
Subject: [Tutor] Re: python scripts
Message-ID: 

>I recently started toying with some python programming.  I enjoy it.  
>However,
>when I save a python file after producing it in a text editor (e.g., 
>spam.py)
>the interpreter can't locate it to run it as a script afterwards.  I don't
>know where I should save the file.  Furthermore, I don't know how to
>determine where I should save the file.  I have some texts that suggest
>various places, but I need to change permissions, etc.
>
>I am running SuSe 8.1.  The version of python I am using is 2.2.1.
>

Sometimes the best way to show us the problem you are having
is to paste in to your email a script of the error messages you
are getting...

You do not say, but I suspect you are running this from IDLE?

Here is a script of an interactive session that might help you.
You would do this in a shell (xterm, console, konsole,
gnome-terminal, etc)

The > and the >>> at the start of a line are the prompts and
would not be typed.  Your prompt might look different.

Most of the lines that do not start with > or >>> are responses
from the computer, and should not be typed in

One exception is the long section after the
command that starts with cat. Type those lines in or copy
and paste them from this message.


>cd
>mkdir foo_project
>cd foo_project
>cat > foo_module.py
import random
import sys

def random_bar(baz):
    return random.randrange(0, baz)

if __name__ == '__main__':
    choices = int(sys.argv[1])
    print random_bar(choices)

>python foo_module.py 5
4
>python foo_module.py 64
61
>python foo_module.py 923
405
>python
Python 2.2.3 (#1, Jun  9 2003, 18:01:50)
[GCC 2.95.4 20020320 [FreeBSD]] on freebsd4
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>>import foo_module
>>>baz = foo_module.random_bar(12)
>>>print baz
3
>>>baz = foo_module.random_bar(12)
>>>print baz
2



Basically, you can create a script anywhere, but in a unix-like
system, your best bet is to work in your home directory, or
a directory inside there that you create.  That way you will
not need to change any permissions.

As long as your shell is "in" that directory, ie you have changed
directory (cd) to that location, python will find your script.

I recommend a book on basic unix commands to go along with
your python programming.  It is interesting and very useful.

_________________________________________________________________
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http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail



From tpc@csua.berkeley.edu  Thu Jul 10 20:31:01 2003
From: tpc@csua.berkeley.edu (tpc@csua.berkeley.edu)
Date: Thu Jul 10 19:31:01 2003
Subject: [Tutor] bash find equivalent in Python
Message-ID: <20030710160849.M22075-100000@localhost.name>

I am trying to index all html files within a document tree and so far I
have:


DIR = '/usr/local/apache2/htdocs'
myList = []
for f in os.listdir(DIR):
	path = os.path.join(DIR, f)
	if os.path.isfile(path) and f.endswith('.html'):
	        myList.append(path)
	elif os.path.isdir(path):
		os.chdir(path)
                for f in os.listdir(os.getcwd()):
		        path = os.path.join(os.getcwd(), f)
                        if os.path.isfile(path) and f.endswith('.html'):
	                        myList.append(path)
	                elif os.path.isdir(path):
                                ...


While this seems to work, it also seems wrong to have to guess how many
levels deep my directory structure is and copy, paste and indent the code
accordingly.  Is there a recursive find utility in Python similar to bash
find ?  For example:

find . -name '*.html'

will return all html files from current working directory and on, along
with their paths respective to the current working directory.  I looked at
string module find in the Python documentation and shutils and did not
find the analog.



From magnus@thinkware.se  Thu Jul 10 20:32:02 2003
From: magnus@thinkware.se (Magnus =?iso-8859-1?Q?Lyck=E5?=)
Date: Thu Jul 10 19:32:02 2003
Subject: [Tutor] Bits operations
In-Reply-To: <3F0DE415.6090805@epfl.ch>
Message-ID: <5.2.1.1.0.20030711011450.073fdaf0@www.thinkware.se>

At 00:09 2003-07-11 +0200, Guillermo Fernandez wrote:
>Cheers,
>
>I'm playing with crypto algorithms (I just get out of the exam and I'm 
>kind of masochist ;-) and there's of course bit operations.

I guess you'll get what you deserve! ;)

>Here's my problems:
>1- How much bits does an integer take? I would like to play with 32 bits 
>words and I don't really know how to limit this and specially fix the size 
>in python (they say an int is represented by a long with _at least_ 32 
>bits...).

32 bits today, but I'd like to raise a warning here! While
0xffffffff means -1 in Python version < 2.3, it's like below
in 2.3:

 >>> 0xffffffff
:1: FutureWarning: hex/oct constants > sys.maxint will return 
positive values in Python 2.4 and up
-1

This is because of the ongoing unifiction between the
integer and long types.

Maybe you should use pyrex? That will let you use C types,
and get much faster code than normal Python code.

>2- I've not seen any binary representation of integers (thus there exist 
>octal and hexa...). It's easier to see something like 00101001B... does it 
>exist?

Nope. I pestered Guido about that in Charleroi during
EuroPython, and he was determined there was no practical
use for it. If you really want it, pester him on Python-dev! :)

I think it would be good for learning about computers, but
he doesn't seem to be very keen on ones and zeroes...

>3- I've seen some bit-sting operations. Is there an easy way of reading 
>the value of a bit in python in a straightforward manner? (for example 
>"the bit i of integer n has a value 1 or 0?").

Write a function?

def bits(x):
     i = 0
     while x:
         print "%i: %i" % (i, x%2)
         x = x >> 1
         i += 1

If you just wonder about a particular bit, just do

 >>> def set_bit(n, i):
...     return (n & (1<>> set_bit(127,6)
True
 >>> set_bit(127,7)
False


--
Magnus Lycka (It's really Lyckå), magnus@thinkware.se
Thinkware AB, Sweden, www.thinkware.se
I code Python ~ The Agile Programming Language 



From dyoo@hkn.eecs.berkeley.edu  Thu Jul 10 20:45:03 2003
From: dyoo@hkn.eecs.berkeley.edu (Danny Yoo)
Date: Thu Jul 10 19:45:03 2003
Subject: [Tutor] bash find equivalent in Python
In-Reply-To: <20030710160849.M22075-100000@localhost.name>
Message-ID: 


On Thu, 10 Jul 2003 tpc@csua.berkeley.edu wrote:

> While this seems to work, it also seems wrong to have to guess how many
> levels deep my directory structure is and copy, paste and indent the code
> accordingly.  Is there a recursive find utility in Python similar to bash
> find ?  For example:
>
> find . -name '*.html'
>
> will return all html files from current working directory and on, along
> with their paths respective to the current working directory.  I looked
> at string module find in the Python documentation and shutils and did
> not find the analog.

Hi tpc,

Your wish is my command.  *grin*


Here's a function --- DFS() --- that'll let you march through each
subdirectory:

###
import os
import os.path

def DFS(root, skip_symlinks = 1):
    """Depth first search traversal of directory structure.  Children
    are visited in alphabetical order."""
    stack = [root]
    visited = {}
    while stack:
        d = stack.pop()
        if d not in visited:  ## just to prevent any possible recursive
                              ## loops
            visited[d] = 1
            yield d
        stack.extend(subdirs(d, skip_symlinks))


def subdirs(root, skip_symlinks = 1):
    """Given a root directory, returns the first-level subdirectories."""
    try:
        dirs = [os.path.join(root, x)
                for x in os.listdir(root)]
        dirs = filter(os.path.isdir, dirs)
        if skip_symlinks:
            dirs = filter(lambda x: not os.path.islink(x), dirs)
        dirs.sort()
        return dirs
    except OSError, IOError: return []
###


DFS() returns an iteratable object that marches through all the
subdirectories of a given root.  Your code for going through all the .html
files, then, might look something like:

###
    for subdir in DFS(root):
        htmls = glob.glob(os.path.join(subdir, "*.html"))
        ...
###


Another way to do something like 'find' is to use the os.path.walk()
utility function:

    http://www.python.org/doc/lib/module-os.path.html

but I find DFS() a little easier on the brain... *grin*


Hope this helps!



From missive@hotmail.com  Thu Jul 10 20:55:02 2003
From: missive@hotmail.com (Lee Harr)
Date: Thu Jul 10 19:55:02 2003
Subject: [Tutor] Re: asynchat and queue?
Message-ID: 

>I'm trying to learn how to use sockets in Python.
>
>I may not be on the right track, I can't find simple examples anywhere of
>using queues with asyncore/asynchat.
>

It does not use queues, but this works for me:


import asyncore
import asynchat
import socket

class MainServer:
    def __init__(self):
        self.all_connections = []
        self.mss = MainServerSocket(50006)
        self.mss.set_server(self)

    def add_connection(self, connection):
        self.all_connections.append(connection)

    def remove_connection(self, connection):
        self.all_connections.remove(connection)

    def send_to_all(self, data):
        for connection in self.all_connections:
            connection.push(data)


class MainServerSocket(asyncore.dispatcher):
    def __init__(self, port):
        print 'initing Listening Port'
        asyncore.dispatcher.__init__(self)
        self.create_socket(socket.AF_INET, socket.SOCK_STREAM)
        self.bind(('',port))
        self.listen(5)

    def set_server(self, server):
        self.server = server

    def handle_accept(self):
        newSocket, address = self.accept()
        print "Connected from", address
        sss = SecondaryServerSocket(newSocket)
        self.server.add_connection(sss)
        sss.set_server(self.server)


class SecondaryServerSocket(asynchat.async_chat):
    def __init__(self, *args):
        print 'initing OutBound Port'
        asynchat.async_chat.__init__(self, *args)
        self.set_terminator('\n')
        self.data = []

    def set_server(self, server):
        self.server = server

    def collect_incoming_data(self, data):
        self.data.append(data)

    def found_terminator(self):
        data = ''.join(self.data)
        self.server.send_to_all(data)
        self.data = []

    def handle_close(self):
        print "Disconnected from", self.getpeername()
        self.close()
        self.server.remove_connection(self)


server = MainServer()
asyncore.loop()

_________________________________________________________________
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http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail



From magnus@thinkware.se  Thu Jul 10 21:14:02 2003
From: magnus@thinkware.se (Magnus =?iso-8859-1?Q?Lyck=E5?=)
Date: Thu Jul 10 20:14:02 2003
Subject: [Tutor] os.name on Windows 98
In-Reply-To: <20030710160650.S66938-100000@yamato.yamato.com>
References: <5.2.1.1.0.20030711005155.073e0cf8@www.thinkware.se>
Message-ID: <5.2.1.1.0.20030711021418.073e6918@www.thinkware.se>

At 16:15 2003-07-10 -0700, Tony Cappellini wrote:
> > >Why does os.name return 'nt' on a Windows 98 machine ?
>The question should have been "Why does os.name return the wrong name for
>the OS on a Windows 98 machine ?

Beacuse os.name was never intended to tell you the name of
any operating system. It tells you the name of a Python
module it uses! Didn't you read the quote from the docs I gave?


--
Magnus Lycka (It's really Lyckå), magnus@thinkware.se
Thinkware AB, Sweden, www.thinkware.se
I code Python ~ The Agile Programming Language 



From magnus@thinkware.se  Thu Jul 10 21:30:01 2003
From: magnus@thinkware.se (Magnus =?iso-8859-1?Q?Lyck=E5?=)
Date: Thu Jul 10 20:30:01 2003
Subject: [Tutor] bash find equivalent in Python
In-Reply-To: 
References: <20030710160849.M22075-100000@localhost.name>
Message-ID: <5.2.1.1.0.20030711022204.073c7158@www.thinkware.se>

At 16:44 2003-07-10 -0700, Danny Yoo wrote:
>Another way to do something like 'find' is to use the os.path.walk()
>utility function:
>
>     http://www.python.org/doc/lib/module-os.path.html
>
>but I find DFS() a little easier on the brain... *grin*

Nah, os.path.walk is just the thing here!

 >>> l = []
 >>> def htmlFinder(arg, dirname, fnames):
...     for fn in fnames:
...             if fn.endswith('.html'):
...                     l.append(os.path.join(dirname, fn))
...
 >>> os.path.walk('c:\\', htmlFinder, None)
 >>> for fn in l: print fn

Just read through the help text a few times...

 >>> help(os.path.walk)
Help on function walk in module ntpath:

walk(top, func, arg)

     Directory tree walk with callback function.

     For each directory in the directory tree rooted at top (including top
     itself, but excluding '.' and '..'), call func(arg, dirname, fnames).
     dirname is the name of the directory, and fnames a list of the names of
     the files and subdirectories in dirname (excluding '.' and '..').  func
     may modify the fnames list in-place (e.g. via del or slice assignment),
     and walk will only recurse into the subdirectories whose names remain in
     fnames; this can be used to implement a filter, or to impose a specific
     order of visiting.  No semantics are defined for, or required of, arg,
     beyond that arg is always passed to func.  It can be used, e.g., to pass
     a filename pattern, or a mutable object designed to accumulate
     statistics.  Passing None for arg is common.


--
Magnus Lycka (It's really Lyckå), magnus@thinkware.se
Thinkware AB, Sweden, www.thinkware.se
I code Python ~ The Agile Programming Language 



From tutor@python.org  Thu Jul 10 21:33:02 2003
From: tutor@python.org (Tim Peters)
Date: Thu Jul 10 20:33:02 2003
Subject: [Tutor] os.name on Windows 98
In-Reply-To: <20030710160650.S66938-100000@yamato.yamato.com>
Message-ID: 

[Tony Cappellini]
> os.name obviously returns "some" name for the OS, but not the correct
> one in this case. So the manual is of no use becaus eit does not
> explain why the function returns the wrong name.

Read Magnus's reply again.

> What's the point of providing a function that doesn't return the
> correct info, or ambiguous information ?

If you're running on Windows and need access to Windows internals, you
should install the Python Win32 extensions.  Then you can use the Win32
API's GetVersionEx() to get more info than most people have any idea what to
do with .  Starting in Python 2.3, you can get the same info from the
new-in-2.3 sys.getwindowsversion() function (which exists only on Windows
Python builds).



From thomi@thomi.imail.net.nz  Thu Jul 10 22:02:01 2003
From: thomi@thomi.imail.net.nz (Thomas CLive Richards)
Date: Thu Jul 10 21:02:01 2003
Subject: [Tutor] threading vs. forking?
In-Reply-To: <3F0DA100.9030509@ccvcorp.com>
References: <20030710203409.49491ce3.thomi@thomi.imail.net.nz>
 <3F0DA100.9030509@ccvcorp.com>
Message-ID: <20030711130122.48d557d8.thomi@thomi.imail.net.nz>

>  Your worker thread would then alternate between checking if there's 
> data to read on the serial port, and checking if there's anything in
> the Queue that it should send on the serial port.  Note that a worker
> thread cannot be killed from the main thread -- if you want a worker
> thread to end before the entire program shuts down, that thread needs
> to end on its own, so you may want to have some way to ask that thread
> to commit suicide.  This could be a matter of sending a special token
> in the output-queue, if you have one, or it could be an independent
> threading signal.  
> 

with "main" and "child" threads, am i correct when i say that if you
only have two threads (a min and a child thread), you only actually need
to create the child thread, and the main thread is just run as the rest
of the program? (kind of like how it's done with forking)?

or do you need to create two threads....hmmm..

/me is confused

-- 

Thomi Richards,
thomi@thomi.imail.net.nz



From sigurd@12move.de  Thu Jul 10 22:47:01 2003
From: sigurd@12move.de (Karl =?iso-8859-1?q?Pfl=E4sterer?=)
Date: Thu Jul 10 21:47:01 2003
Subject: [Tutor] bash find equivalent in Python
In-Reply-To: <5.2.1.1.0.20030711022204.073c7158@www.thinkware.se> (Magnus
 Lyck's message of "Fri, 11 Jul 2003 02:34:37 +0200")
References: <20030710160849.M22075-100000@localhost.name>
 <5.2.1.1.0.20030711022204.073c7158@www.thinkware.se>
Message-ID: 

On 11 Jul 2003, Magnus Lyck=E5 <- magnus@thinkware.se wrote:

> Nah, os.path.walk is just the thing here!
>
>  >>> l =3D []
>  >>> def htmlFinder(arg, dirname, fnames):
> ...     for fn in fnames:
> ...             if fn.endswith('.html'):
> ...                     l.append(os.path.join(dirname, fn))
> ...
>  >>> os.path.walk('c:\\', htmlFinder, None)
>  >>> for fn in l: print fn

That is pretty short but I always found os.path.walk a little bit slow.
Some time ago I had a similar problem and I solved it like that (only a
bit customized for that problem here (I didn't search for html files))

import os, os.path

def filelist(d):
    files =3D []
=20=20=20=20
    for file in os.listdir(d):
        fulldir =3D os.path.join(d, file)
        if os.path.isdir(fulldir):
            flist =3D [os.path.join(fulldir, x) for x in os.listdir(fulldir=
) \
                     if os.path.isfile(os.path.join(fulldir, x)) and x.ends=
with('.html')]
            files.extend(flist)
            files.extend(filelist(fulldir))
    return files


Here that solution compared with os.path.walk was faster.


   Karl
--=20
"Programs must be written for people to read, and only incidentally
for machines to execute."
                -- Abelson & Sussman, SICP (preface to the first edition)



From alan.gauld@blueyonder.co.uk  Fri Jul 11 04:48:01 2003
From: alan.gauld@blueyonder.co.uk (Alan Gauld)
Date: Fri Jul 11 03:48:01 2003
Subject: [Tutor] Bits operations
References: <3F0DE415.6090805@epfl.ch>
Message-ID: <024901c34780$bfe04d80$6401a8c0@xp>

> 1- How much bits does an integer take? I would like to play with 32
bits

Most machines nowadays use 32 bits/integer but as 64 bit machines
come on stream that will change(eg the new G5 Mac).

> 2- I've not seen any binary representation of integers (thus there
exist
> octal and hexa...). It's easier to see something like 00101001B...
does
> it exist?

Discussed here many times, search the archives :-)

> 3- I've seen some bit-sting operations. Is there an easy way of
reading
> the value of a bit in python in a straightforward manner? (for
example
> "the bit i of integer n has a value 1 or 0?").

Try creating a dictionary of bit masks:

bits = {0:1,1:2,2:4,3:8,...,31:0x8000}

then you can extract the nth bit by

bit = val & bits[n]

Or alternatively write a function that returns 2**n to get the mask:

def mask(n): return 2**n

bit = val & mask(n)

HTH,

Alan G.



From op73418@mail.telepac.pt  Fri Jul 11 06:28:02 2003
From: op73418@mail.telepac.pt (Rodrigues)
Date: Fri Jul 11 05:28:02 2003
Subject: [Tutor] threading vs. forking?
In-Reply-To: <20030711130122.48d557d8.thomi@thomi.imail.net.nz>
Message-ID: 


> -----Original Message-----
> From: tutor-admin@python.org
> [mailto:tutor-admin@python.org]On Behalf Of
> Thomas CLive Richards
> Sent: sexta-feira, 11 de Julho de 2003 2:01
> To: tutor@python.org
> Subject: Re: [Tutor] threading vs. forking?
>
>
[Quote snipped]
>
> with "main" and "child" threads, am i correct when i say that if you
> only have two threads (a min and a child thread), you only
> actually need
> to create the child thread, and the main thread is just run
> as the rest
> of the program? (kind of like how it's done with forking)?
>
> or do you need to create two threads....hmmm..
>

Yes, you are correct. For a given process there is always one thread,
the main thread. This thread could be the Gui thread. You would spawn
a new thread to poll the port and set up a Queue where the child would
push its data.

> /me is confused
>
> --
>

With my best regards,
G. Rodrigues

> Thomi Richards,
> thomi@thomi.imail.net.nz
>



From op73418@mail.telepac.pt  Fri Jul 11 06:34:02 2003
From: op73418@mail.telepac.pt (Rodrigues)
Date: Fri Jul 11 05:34:02 2003
Subject: [Tutor] os.name on Windows 98
In-Reply-To: <20030710160650.S66938-100000@yamato.yamato.com>
Message-ID: 


> -----Original Message-----
> From: tutor-admin@python.org
> [mailto:tutor-admin@python.org]On Behalf Of
> Tony Cappellini
> Sent: sexta-feira, 11 de Julho de 2003 0:16
> To: Magnus Lycka
> Cc: tutor@python.org
> Subject: Re: [Tutor] os.name on Windows 98
>
[text snipped]
> > Why does your program need to know this?
>
> Because different drivers are required to talk to various
> hardware, on
> each OS, and I need to make the differentiation in order to
> know which
> driver to use.
>

In the upcoming 2.3 there is a module called platform for, and I quote

"find out everything you always wanted to know about your platform,
but were afraid to ask. "

> thanks
>
> Tony
>

With my best regards,
G. Rodrigues



From magnus@thinkware.se  Fri Jul 11 07:41:02 2003
From: magnus@thinkware.se (Magnus =?iso-8859-1?Q?Lyck=E5?=)
Date: Fri Jul 11 06:41:02 2003
Subject: [Tutor] bash find equivalent in Python
In-Reply-To: 
References: <5.2.1.1.0.20030711022204.073c7158@www.thinkware.se>
 <20030710160849.M22075-100000@localhost.name>
 <5.2.1.1.0.20030711022204.073c7158@www.thinkware.se>
Message-ID: <5.2.1.1.0.20030711111901.073c72a0@www.thinkware.se>

At 03:42 2003-07-11 +0200, Karl Pfl=E4sterer wrote:
> > Nah, os.path.walk is just the thing here!
> >
> >  >>> l =3D []
> >  >>> def htmlFinder(arg, dirname, fnames):
> > ...     for fn in fnames:
> > ...             if fn.endswith('.html'):
> > ...                     l.append(os.path.join(dirname, fn))
> > ...
> >  >>> os.path.walk('c:\\', htmlFinder, None)
> >  >>> for fn in l: print fn
>
>That is pretty short but I always found os.path.walk a little bit slow.

True! But it was fast to write! ;)

Have you tried profiling and improving walk? The code is
very small and simple, but I'm sure it could be improved.
Making os.profile.walk better will benefit all of us, and
let you continue to write very small and simple functions.

There is a cost you can't avoid in the function call for
each directory, but compared to the speed of disk accesses,
that seems rather tiny. It's also doing 'isdir()' on each
file. Is that a resourse hog? But you do that as well!

def walk(top, func, arg):
     # Extracted from ntpath.py. Doc string removed
     try:
         names =3D os.listdir(top)
     except os.error:
         return
     func(arg, top, names)
     exceptions =3D ('.', '..')
     for name in names:
         if name not in exceptions:
             name =3D join(top, name)
             if isdir(name):
                 walk(name, func, arg)

By the way, a more generic version of my program would use regular
expressions. The version below prints the found files at once instead
of putting them in a list.

 >>> def fnFinder(reg_exp, dirname, fnames):
...     for fn in fnames:
...             if reg_exp.search(fn):
...                     print os.path.join(dirname, fn)
...
 >>> import re
 >>> os.path.walk('C:\\', fnFinder, re.compile('\.html$'))

Another version is obviously to supply the list to put the file
names in.

 >>> def fnFinder((aList, reg_exp), dirname, fnames):
...     for fn in fnames:
...             if reg_exp.search(fn):
...                     aList.append(os.path.join(dirname, fn))
...
 >>> l =3D []
 >>> os.path.walk('p:/tmp/', fnFinder, (l, re.compile('\.html$')))
 >>> print l
['p:/tmp/index.html', 'p:/tmp/install_guide_2.0.html']
 >>>


--
Magnus Lycka (It's really Lyckå), magnus@thinkware.se
Thinkware AB, Sweden, www.thinkware.se
I code Python ~ The Agile Programming Language=20



From thomi@thomi.imail.net.nz  Fri Jul 11 08:51:22 2003
From: thomi@thomi.imail.net.nz (Thomas CLive Richards)
Date: Fri Jul 11 07:51:22 2003
Subject: [Tutor] threading vs. forking?
In-Reply-To: 
References: <20030711130122.48d557d8.thomi@thomi.imail.net.nz>
 
Message-ID: <20030711235011.45a6b093.thomi@thomi.imail.net.nz>

> Yes, you are correct. For a given process there is always one thread,
> the main thread. This thread could be the Gui thread. You would spawn
> a new thread to poll the port and set up a Queue where the child would
> push its data.
> 

ahh.. thanks so much. i got it working!!

whew!

-- 

Thomi Richards,
thomi@thomi.imail.net.nz



From R. Alan Monroe" 
References: <20030710160849.M22075-100000@localhost.name>
Message-ID: <152195723094.20030711123624@columbus.rr.com>

> While this seems to work, it also seems wrong to have to guess how many
> levels deep my directory structure is and copy, paste and indent the code
> accordingly.  Is there a recursive find utility in Python similar to bash
> find ?  For example:

You could probably convert your existing program into a recursive one.
Here's one I wrote a few months ago that might give you some ideas.

class node:
        def __init__(self,name):
                self.size=0
                self.name=name
                self.files=[]
                self.dirs=[]


#----------
import os

startdir="c:\\winnt"

def walker(startdir):
        print "BEGIN", startdir, "\r",
        os.chdir(startdir)
        here=node(startdir)
        #print here
        listing = os.listdir(startdir)
        #print listing
        for x in listing:
                #print "  DECIDE ", x,
                #print x
                #print os.path.abspath(x)
                if os.path.isfile(x):
                        #print x, "is a file"
                        y=os.path.getsize(x)
                        here.files.append((x,y))
                        here.size += y
                elif os.path.isdir(x):
                        #print x, "is a dir"
                        #print os.path.abspath(x)
                        recurse = walker(os.path.abspath(x))
                        here.dirs.append(recurse)
                        here.size += recurse.size
                        os.chdir(startdir)
                else:
                        #print x, "is neither"
                        pass
        #print "DONE ", startdir
        return here

def display(here,level):
        for x in range(level):
                print "    ",
        print level, here.name, ":", here.size,
        #y=0
        for x in here.dirs:
                if here.size>0:
                        #y += float(x.size)/float(here.size)
                        print float(x.size)/float(here.size)
                else:
                        print "0.0000000000"
                display(x,level+1)
        #print y


root=walker(startdir)
print root.size

print "\n\n\n\n"

display(root,0)



From jeff@ccvcorp.com  Fri Jul 11 14:28:01 2003
From: jeff@ccvcorp.com (Jeff Shannon)
Date: Fri Jul 11 13:28:01 2003
Subject: [Tutor] threading vs. forking?
References: 
Message-ID: <3F0EF374.5010107@ccvcorp.com>

Rodrigues wrote:

>>[mailto:tutor-admin@python.org]On Behalf Of
>>Thomas CLive Richards
>>
>>with "main" and "child" threads, am i correct when i say that if you
>>only have two threads (a min and a child thread), you only
>>actually need
>>to create the child thread, and the main thread is just run
>>as the rest
>>of the program? (kind of like how it's done with forking)?
>>    
>>
>Yes, you are correct. For a given process there is always one thread,
>the main thread. This thread could be the Gui thread. 
>

Indeed, if you're using wxPython for your GUI (as you mentioned that you 
were, previously), then your main thread *must* be your GUI thread -- 
wxPython does quite a bit of setup when it's first imported, and the GUI 
must run from the thread in which that initial import occurs.  (It's 
possible to coerce it to run in a secondary thread, by ensuring that no 
imports of wxPython happen until after that thread starts, but it's 
definitely an exercise in coercion -- it's not something you'd want to 
do without exceptional circumstances dictating it.)

Jeff Shannon
Technician/Programmer
Credit International




From tim@johnsons-web.com  Fri Jul 11 15:46:01 2003
From: tim@johnsons-web.com (Tim Johnson)
Date: Fri Jul 11 14:46:01 2003
Subject: [Tutor] wxPythonGTK-py2.2 on RH 7.2
Message-ID: <20030711185045.GF20920@johnsons-web.com>

Just download xPythonGTK-py2.2 (rpm) and
tested (but did not yet install). It tested
fine, but here's the thing that makes me nervous --
I run python2.2 explicitly as a distinct binary on
RH 7.2 because I have found that some of my services
break when python1.5 is overwritten by python2.2.

Does anyone know if this might occur if I install
xPythonGTK-py2.2?

TIA
-- 
Tim Johnson 
      http://www.alaska-internet-solutions.com
      http://www.johnsons-web.com


From alan.gauld@blueyonder.co.uk  Fri Jul 11 18:38:01 2003
From: alan.gauld@blueyonder.co.uk (Alan Gauld)
Date: Fri Jul 11 17:38:01 2003
Subject: [Tutor] Bits operations
References: <5.2.1.1.0.20030711011450.073fdaf0@www.thinkware.se>
Message-ID: <029701c347f4$d9400670$6401a8c0@xp>

> >octal and hexa...). It's easier to see something like 00101001B...
> 
> Nope. I pestered Guido about that in Charleroi during
> EuroPython, and he was determined there was no practical
> use for it. If you really want it, pester him on Python-dev! :)

Really? I'm surprised. I assume Guido doesn't do much with 
bitmaps or reading raw data from devices. The lack of a binary 
representation is a real pain. Not hard to code but why should 
I have to?!

And watching a single bit toggling in binary is much easier 
than watching a hex or octal digit changing and mentally 
working out which input line triggered it!

Alan g.


From pan@uchicago.edu  Fri Jul 11 20:38:01 2003
From: pan@uchicago.edu (pan@uchicago.edu)
Date: Fri Jul 11 19:38:01 2003
Subject: [Tutor] dynamic property of a class ?
In-Reply-To: <20030711160006.11550.33573.Mailman@mail.python.org>
References: <20030711160006.11550.33573.Mailman@mail.python.org>
Message-ID: <1057966644.3f0f4a34207c2@webmail.uchicago.edu>

I'm wondering if it's possible to make a class with dynamic
properties. For example, a normal class:

class car(object):

      def set_doors(self, val):
            self.__dict__['__doors']= val

      def get_doors(self):
            return self.__dict__['__doors']

      doors= property(get_doors, set_doors)

c = car()
c.doors = 4
print c.doors

So far so good.

Now, is it possible to make this:

c.color= 'black'
print c.color

and make 'color' a property (instead of an entry in the self.__dict__) 
at the runtime, even though it is not defined in the class ?

I'm imaging an approach like:

       self.__setproperty__(propName, getFunc, setFunc)

but is it even possible?

In the above example, "print type(t.doors)" doesn't give any info
regarding if 'doors' is a property or an entry in __dict__. Is it
possible to distinquish this at runtime ?


pan


From SWidney@ci.las-vegas.nv.us  Fri Jul 11 21:09:02 2003
From: SWidney@ci.las-vegas.nv.us (Scott Widney)
Date: Fri Jul 11 20:09:02 2003
Subject: [Tutor] bash find equivalent in Python
Message-ID: <0E5508EBA1620743B409A2B8365DE16FDC868E@sovereign.ci.las-vegas.nv.us>

> On Fri, 11 Jul 2003, Scott Widney wrote:
> 
> > > def subdirs(root, skip_symlinks = 1):
> > >     """Given a root directory, returns the first-level
> > > subdirectories."""
> > >     try:
> > >         dirs = [os.path.join(root, x)
> > >                 for x in os.listdir(root)]
> > >         dirs = filter(os.path.isdir, dirs)
> >
> > I'm thinking that these two steps can be condensed into one:
> >
> >           dirs = [os.path.join(root, x)
> >                   for x in os.listdir(root)
> >                   if os.path.isdir(x)]
> 
> Hi Scott,
> 
> This almost works.  *grin* We have to do the os.path.join()ing
> thing when we check if it's a directory:
> 
> 
>            dirs = [os.path.join(root, x)
>                    for x in os.listdir(root)
>                    if os.path.isdir(os.path.join(root, x))]
> 
> But this looked a little too ugly, so that's why I broke it 
> down into two steps.
> 
> 
> Is it ok to forward this to Tutor as well?
> 
> 
> Talk to you later!
> 

Ah yes. You're right, why type something twice in such close vicinity? I
don't have an interactive prompt right now to test this:

    dirs = filter(os.path.isdir, [os.path.join(root, x)
                                  for x in os.listdir(root)])

Will Python eval the list comprehension before or during the filter? If it
were to yield the list and filter at the same time, it would fairly fly....


From magnus@thinkware.se  Fri Jul 11 21:52:01 2003
From: magnus@thinkware.se (Magnus =?iso-8859-1?Q?Lyck=E5?=)
Date: Fri Jul 11 20:52:01 2003
Subject: [Tutor] Bits operations
In-Reply-To: <029701c347f4$d9400670$6401a8c0@xp>
References: <5.2.1.1.0.20030711011450.073fdaf0@www.thinkware.se>
Message-ID: <5.2.1.1.0.20030712014407.073dd3a0@www.thinkware.se>

At 22:39 2003-07-11 +0100, Alan Gauld wrote:
> > >octal and hexa...). It's easier to see something like 00101001B...
> >
> > Nope. I pestered Guido about that in Charleroi during
> > EuroPython, and he was determined there was no practical
> > use for it. If you really want it, pester him on Python-dev! :)
>
>Really? I'm surprised. I assume Guido doesn't do much with
>bitmaps or reading raw data from devices. The lack of a binary
>representation is a real pain. Not hard to code but why should
>I have to?!

He's not an engineer you know. He is basically a mathematician
as far as I understand, and that makes him a bit...different
I guess. ;)

(BTW, I just noticed that he quit working for Zope Corp and is
now with Elemental Security, founded by Dan Farmer, the guy who
wrote the security checker Satan a number of years ago. It seems
Guido prefers to live in California...)

>And watching a single bit toggling in binary is much easier
>than watching a hex or octal digit changing and mentally
>working out which input line triggered it!

It's no huge thing. Binary string to integer value is handled
by int(x,2), e.g.

 >>> int('10100101',2)
165

I can agree that is would be neat if I could simply type

 >>> 0b10100101
165

but I can live without that...

Going the other way around, it would be nice with a builtin
companion to hex and oct, as well as a "%b" to complement
"%x%o%i"... But "%s" % b(n) with b() defined as below does
the job I guess... at least for non-negative numbers.

def b(i, l=0):
     s = []
     while i:
         s.append(str(i%2))
         i >>= 1
     s.extend(['0']*(l-len(s)))
     s.reverse()
     return "".join(s)


--
Magnus Lycka (It's really Lyckå), magnus@thinkware.se
Thinkware AB, Sweden, www.thinkware.se
I code Python ~ The Agile Programming Language 



From magnus@thinkware.se  Fri Jul 11 22:26:59 2003
From: magnus@thinkware.se (Magnus =?iso-8859-1?Q?Lyck=E5?=)
Date: Fri Jul 11 21:26:59 2003
Subject: [Tutor] dynamic property of a class ?
In-Reply-To: <1057966644.3f0f4a34207c2@webmail.uchicago.edu>
References: <20030711160006.11550.33573.Mailman@mail.python.org>
 <20030711160006.11550.33573.Mailman@mail.python.org>
Message-ID: <5.2.1.1.0.20030712030840.07419d70@www.thinkware.se>

At 18:37 2003-07-11 -0500, pan@uchicago.edu wrote:
>I'm wondering if it's possible to make a class with dynamic
>properties. For example, a normal class:
>
>class car(object):
>
>       def set_doors(self, val):
>             self.__dict__['__doors']= val
>
>       def get_doors(self):
>             return self.__dict__['__doors']
>
>       doors= property(get_doors, set_doors)
>
>c = car()
>c.doors = 4
>print c.doors
>
>So far so good.
>
>Now, is it possible to make this:
>
>c.color= 'black'
>print c.color
>
>and make 'color' a property (instead of an entry in the self.__dict__)
>at the runtime, even though it is not defined in the class ?

It's certainly easy to add the feature to the class dynamically:

 >>> class car(object):
...     def set_doors(self, val):
...             self.__dict__['__doors']= val
...     def get_doors(self):
...             return self.__dict__['__doors']
...     doors= property(get_doors, set_doors)
...
 >>> c = car()
 >>> c.doors = 4
 >>> print c.doors
4
 >>> def set_color(self, color):
...     if color in ['blue', 'red', 'green']:
...             self.__color = color
...     else:
...             self.__color = 'black'
...
 >>> def get_color(self):
...     return self.__color
...
 >>> car.color = property(get_color, set_color)
 >>> c.color = '42'
 >>> print c.color
black

but doing "c.color ..." instead of "car.color" won't work. I.e. you
can affect all instances of a class in runtime. But if you want
instances to behave differently, they should really have different
classes. It's more or less the definition of classes that two
instances of the same class share the same behaviour...


--
Magnus Lycka (It's really Lyckå), magnus@thinkware.se
Thinkware AB, Sweden, www.thinkware.se
I code Python ~ The Agile Programming Language 



From dyoo@hkn.eecs.berkeley.edu  Fri Jul 11 23:33:01 2003
From: dyoo@hkn.eecs.berkeley.edu (Danny Yoo)
Date: Fri Jul 11 22:33:01 2003
Subject: [Tutor] Bits operations  [another version of binary() using
 hex()]
In-Reply-To: <029701c347f4$d9400670$6401a8c0@xp>
Message-ID: 


On Fri, 11 Jul 2003, Alan Gauld wrote:

>
> > >octal and hexa...). It's easier to see something like 00101001B...
> >
> > Nope. I pestered Guido about that in Charleroi during EuroPython, and
> > he was determined there was no practical use for it. If you really
> > want it, pester him on Python-dev! :)

Hi Alan,


We already have hex(), which almost does the trick.  If we really wanted a
binary() function, we can write it like this:


###
def binary(x):
    'Returns the binary representation of x.'
    binary_mapping = {'0' : '0000',
                      '1' : '0001',
                      '2' : '0010',
                      '3' : '0011',
                      '4' : '0100',
                      '5' : '0101',
                      '6' : '0110',
                      '7' : '0111',
                      '8' : '1000',
                      '9' : '1001',
                      'a' : '1010',
                      'b' : '1011',
                      'c' : '1100',
                      'd' : '1101',
                      'e' : '1110',
                      'f' : '1111'}
    return ''.join([binary_mapping[hex_digit]
                    for hex_digit in hex(x)[2:]])
###



Here's what it looks like in action:

###
>>> for n in range(20):
...     print n, binary(n)
...
0 0000
1 0001
2 0010
3 0011
4 0100
5 0101
6 0110
7 0111
8 1000
9 1001
10 1010
11 1011
12 1100
13 1101
14 1110
15 1111
16 00010000
17 00010001
18 00010010
19 00010011
>>> binary(-42)
'11111111111111111111111111010110'
###


So that's yet another way to do binary()... *grin* It might seem like
cheating to take advantage of hex().  But then again, it's a common
programming technique to improve on a function that's almost does what we
want.



> Really? I'm surprised. I assume Guido doesn't do much with bitmaps or
> reading raw data from devices. The lack of a binary representation is a
> real pain. Not hard to code but why should I have to?!

I don't know... I feel that binary() is a bit too specialized to be put in
as a builtin.  But perhaps it might fit into a standard library module
somewhere?


Talk to you later!



From alan.gauld@blueyonder.co.uk  Sat Jul 12 03:20:02 2003
From: alan.gauld@blueyonder.co.uk (Alan Gauld)
Date: Sat Jul 12 02:20:02 2003
Subject: [Tutor] Bits operations  [another version of binary() using hex()]
References: 
Message-ID: <02c401c3483d$bbd92140$6401a8c0@xp>

> We already have hex(), which almost does the trick.  If we really
wanted a
> binary() function, we can write it like this:

Yes, I know its easy enough to write a function to generate binary
strings, but it just seems a shame its not standard when octal
and hex are there already. Personally I use binary format far
more than I ever use octal!


> ###
> def binary(x):
>     'Returns the binary representation of x.'
>     binary_mapping = {'0' : '0000',
>                       '1' : '0001',
>                       '2' : '0010',
>                       ....
>                       'e' : '1110',
>                       'f' : '1111'}
>     return ''.join([binary_mapping[hex_digit]
>                     for hex_digit in hex(x)[2:]])
> ###

I suspect you can do the same using octal and it would
be a smaller table. Personally thats how I generate binary
strings - convert to octal then do a digit by digit conversion
to binary... Its about the only use I have for octal!

> > Really? I'm surprised. I assume Guido doesn't do much with bitmaps
or
> > reading raw data from devices. The lack of a binary representation
is a
> > real pain. Not hard to code but why should I have to?!
>
> I don't know... I feel that binary() is a bit too specialized to be
put in
> as a builtin.  But perhaps it might fit into a standard library
module
> somewhere?

AS Magnus says, maybe its coz I'm an engineer but I use binary
a lot more than octal or hex. Actually I can convert hex to binary
pretty well in my head but its not fast enough for monitoring input
lines or bit mask changes.

Even at the newbie level most classes teach binary before octal or
hex so beginners are more likely to want to explore binary numbers
than octal ones IMHO. And going by the number of times it comes up
on tutor I think I'm right! :-)

Alan G.



From thomi@thomi.imail.net.nz  Sat Jul 12 05:57:02 2003
From: thomi@thomi.imail.net.nz (Thomas Clive Richards)
Date: Sat Jul 12 04:57:02 2003
Subject: [Tutor] Bits operations  [another version of binary() using
 hex()]
In-Reply-To: <02c401c3483d$bbd92140$6401a8c0@xp>
References: 
 <02c401c3483d$bbd92140$6401a8c0@xp>
Message-ID: <20030712205529.1efcc858.thomi@thomi.imail.net.nz>

hey...

> I suspect you can do the same using octal and it would
> be a smaller table. Personally thats how I generate binary
> strings - convert to octal then do a digit by digit conversion
> to binary... Its about the only use I have for octal!

The small trouble that i have with using octal as an intermediate step
between decimal and binary is that one octal digit represents 3 binary
digits, and this is not easily divisible into an 8 or 16 bit binary
number. It's nothing a computer can't handle, but it seems easier to use
hex, esp. as you have to do fewer conversions, and thereby limit the
chances for a stuff up.

again, it's nothing a computer would have trouble with, only us less
intelligent humans ;)


-- 

Thomi Richards,
thomi@thomi.imail.net.nz



From guillermo.fernandez@epfl.ch  Sat Jul 12 07:57:06 2003
From: guillermo.fernandez@epfl.ch (Guillermo Fernandez)
Date: Sat Jul 12 06:57:06 2003
Subject: [Tutor] Bits operations
In-Reply-To: <024901c34780$bfe04d80$6401a8c0@xp>
References: <3F0DE415.6090805@epfl.ch> <024901c34780$bfe04d80$6401a8c0@xp>
Message-ID: <3F0FE957.5020102@epfl.ch>

Hi,

I ended up constructing a binary() fct and usig masks and longs.

I used longs because I remarked that:
 >>> 0x100000000&0xFFFF0000>>16
4294967296L          ??
This si probably due to the 32 bit integer limit you told me about, because:
 >>> 0x100000000&0xFFFF0000L>>16
0L

Thank you for your answers!

Guille



From alan.gauld@blueyonder.co.uk  Sat Jul 12 16:17:01 2003
From: alan.gauld@blueyonder.co.uk (Alan Gauld)
Date: Sat Jul 12 15:17:01 2003
Subject: [Tutor] Bits operations  [another version of binary() using hex()]
References: <02c401c3483d$bbd92140$6401a8c0@xp> <20030712205529.1efcc858.thomi@thomi.imail.net.nz>
Message-ID: <030b01c348aa$2554f1f0$6401a8c0@xp>

> > strings - convert to octal then do a digit by digit conversion
> > to binary... Its about the only use I have for octal!
>
> The small trouble that i have with using octal as an intermediate
step
> between decimal and binary is that one octal digit represents 3
binary
> digits, and this is not easily divisible into an 8 or 16 bit binary

For strings that doesn't matter you just expand each octal
character into 3 binary characters... But if you want real
numbers then it becomes messy I agree.

Alan g



From thomi@thomi.imail.net.nz  Sun Jul 13 02:25:02 2003
From: thomi@thomi.imail.net.nz (Thomas CLive Richards)
Date: Sun Jul 13 01:25:02 2003
Subject: [Tutor] how to specify floating point precision from another variable?
Message-ID: <20030713172439.11d763e6.thomi@thomi.imail.net.nz>

hey,

how can i print out floating point numbers with a precision specified by
the user?

to print it out normally, I'm doing this:

self.outtxt.AppendText("%s %f\n"% (str(command), arg))

where arg is a floating point number.

however, the user can select to have the floating point numbers print
out to a precision of their choosing. this number is stored in
config.floatplaces (as an integer number).

what I'm wondering is, how can i set this up? i thought i could use
exec, like this:

exec('self.outtxt.AppendText("%s %.%df\n"% (str(command), arg))' %
(config.floatplaces))

but that doesn't print anything at all... i guess exec is getting
confused over which float variable it should use, and it's pretty ugly
anyway.

is there an easy way to do this? i thought there might be a built-in
function to do this, but couldn't see anything obvious. (i thought that
maybe the float() function could take an additional argument which would
specify how many decimal places to include....

hmmm.. I'm, stuck.. any ideas?

-- 

Thomi Richards,
thomi@thomi.imail.net.nz



From glingl@aon.at  Sun Jul 13 05:35:01 2003
From: glingl@aon.at (Gregor Lingl)
Date: Sun Jul 13 04:35:01 2003
Subject: [Tutor] how to specify floating point precision from another
 variable?
References: <20030713172439.11d763e6.thomi@thomi.imail.net.nz>
Message-ID: <3F111A22.4050303@aon.at>

Thomas CLive Richards schrieb:

>hey,
>
>how can i print out floating point numbers with a precision specified by
>the user?
>
>to print it out normally, I'm doing this:
>
>self.outtxt.AppendText("%s %f\n"% (str(command), arg))
>
>where arg is a floating point number.
>
>however, the user can select to have the floating point numbers print
>out to a precision of their choosing. this number is stored in
>config.floatplaces (as an integer number).
>  
>
This can be done as follows:

 >>> "%s %10.*f" % ("A STRING", input("Dezimals: "), 0.123456789)
Dezimals: 2
'A STRING       0.12'
 >>> "%s %10.*f" % ("A STRING", input("Dezimals: "), 0.123456789)
Dezimals: 7
'A STRING  0.1234568'
 >>> config_floatplaces = int(raw_input("What precision do you want? "))
What precision do you want? 4
 >>> "%s %10.*f" % ("A STRING", config_floatplaces, 0.123456789)
'A STRING     0.1235'
 >>>

A description of how this has to be done you can find at

http://www.python.org/doc/current/lib/typesseq-strings.html

See especially the numbered paragraph 4.

Regards, Gregor





From python@rcn.com  Sun Jul 13 06:33:02 2003
From: python@rcn.com (Raymond Hettinger)
Date: Sun Jul 13 05:33:02 2003
Subject: [Tutor] os.name on Windows 98
References: <20030710160650.S66938-100000@yamato.yamato.com>
Message-ID: <001901c34921$38406ac0$125ffea9@oemcomputer>

> > Why does your program need to know this?
> 
> Because different drivers are required to talk to various hardware, on
> each OS, and I need to make the differentiation in order to know which
> driver to use.


Try this (it's not pretty but it works):

>>> import os
>>> print os.popen('ver').read()

Windows Millennium [Version 4.90.3000]





Raymond Hettinger


From magnus@thinkware.se  Sun Jul 13 07:39:01 2003
From: magnus@thinkware.se (Magnus =?iso-8859-1?Q?Lyck=E5?=)
Date: Sun Jul 13 06:39:01 2003
Subject: [Tutor] os.name on Windows 98
In-Reply-To: 
References: <20030710160650.S66938-100000@yamato.yamato.com>
Message-ID: <5.2.1.1.0.20030713121337.01f3d600@www.thinkware.se>

At 10:34 2003-07-11 +0100, Rodrigues wrote:
>In the upcoming 2.3 there is a module called platform for, and I quote
>
>"find out everything you always wanted to know about your platform,
>but were afraid to ask. "

Yet another reason to upgrade to Python 2.3b2... :)

 >>> import platform
 >>> for x in dir(platform):
         try:
                 print "%s = %s" % (x, eval('platform.%s()' % x))
         except:
                 pass


_node = nida
_sys_version = ('2.3b2.0', 43, 'Jun 29 2003 16:43:04', 'MSC v.1200 32 bit 
(Intel)')
_syscmd_ver = ('Microsoft Windows', '2000', '5.0.2195')
architecture = ('32bit', 'WindowsPE')
dist = ('', '', '')
java_ver = ('', '', ('', '', ''), ('', '', ''))
libc_ver = ('', '')
mac_ver = ('', ('', '', ''), '')
machine =
node = nida
platform = Windows-2000-5.0.2195-SP3
processor =
python_build = (43, 'Jun 29 2003 16:43:04')
python_compiler = MSC v.1200 32 bit (Intel)
python_version = 2.3b2.0
python_version_tuple = ['2', '3b2', '0']
release = 2000
system = Windows
uname = ('Windows', 'nida', '2000', '5.0.2195', '', '')
version = 5.0.2195
win32_ver = ('2000', '5.0.2195', 'SP3', 'Uniprocessor Free')

The "win32_ver" thingie didn't work until I installed the win32all toolkit.

Same code on a Linux box:

_node = kaunas
_sys_version = ('2.3b2.0', 1, 'Jul  4 2003 23:13:33', 'GCC 3.2 (Mandrake 
Linux 9.0 3.2-1mdk)')
_syscmd_ver = ('', '', '')
architecture = ('32bit', 'ELF')
dist = ('mandrake', '9.0', 'dolphin')
java_ver = ('', '', ('', '', ''), ('', '', ''))
libc_ver = ('glibc', '2.2')
mac_ver = ('', ('', '', ''), '')
machine = i686
node = kaunas
platform = Linux-2.4.19-16mdk-i686-with-mandrake-9.0-dolphin
processor =
python_build = (1, 'Jul  4 2003 23:13:33')
python_compiler = GCC 3.2 (Mandrake Linux 9.0 3.2-1mdk)
python_version = 2.3b2.0
python_version_tuple = ['2', '3b2', '0']
release = 2.4.19-16mdk
system = Linux
uname = ('Linux', 'kaunas', '2.4.19-16mdk', '#1 Fri Sep 20 18:15:05 CEST 
2002', 'i686', '')
version = #1 Fri Sep 20 18:15:05 CEST 2002
win32_ver = ('', '', '', '')


--
Magnus Lycka (It's really Lyckå), magnus@thinkware.se
Thinkware AB, Sweden, www.thinkware.se
I code Python ~ The Agile Programming Language 



From chrisj@liquid.sec-d.net  Sun Jul 13 15:45:03 2003
From: chrisj@liquid.sec-d.net (Chris Johnson)
Date: Sun Jul 13 14:45:03 2003
Subject: [Tutor] newbie confused about text parsing
Message-ID: <003e01c3496f$11ab1c90$0217a8c0@win2k>

hi group,
    I'm a unix administrator and I want to learn python to help in my job. I
thought parsing a log file would be a good start but I'm stuck on how to
start.

I'm working with a firewall log file the contents of which look something
like this.
  Nov 30 00:58:05 firewall kernel: Shorewall:man1918:DROP:IN=eth0 OUT=
MAC=ff:ff:ff:ff:ff:ff:00:90:f5:1e:15:aa:08:00 SRC=10.1.2.27 DST=10.1.2.255
LEN=96 TOS=0x00 PREC=0x00 TTL=128 ID=4853 PROTO=UDP SPT=137 DPT=137 LEN=76

I'd like to eventually have these put into a mysql data base. But I'm having
trouble figuring out how to parse this.
some of the fields won't be there every time and the file contains other
logs (ie. this came out of /var/log/messages)

I want to loop through log file looking for a string (Shorewall) then parse
each matching line into a dictionary which I can sort or put into database
fields.

I've been reading the documentation on both modules re and string but which
do I use. I'd like to run this script all the time so entries are added in
near real time to the database.

I've actually worked out the MySQLdb part of it pretty well it's just the
text parsing I'm having trouble starting.

sorry if this is post is to log winded.
thank for any suggestions.
chrisj



From DORSEY_EDMUND_K@LILLY.COM  Sun Jul 13 19:00:02 2003
From: DORSEY_EDMUND_K@LILLY.COM (DORSEY_EDMUND_K@LILLY.COM)
Date: Sun Jul 13 18:00:02 2003
Subject: [Tutor] Tkinter layout problem
Message-ID: 

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I can't seem to figure out how to get the grid layout manager to work. I'm 
using the pmw.Group and I have three groups.  I'm having problems 
arranging the items inside of the groups.

I attached a screenshot of the program to make it easier to see the 
problem.


The FileInfo group is layed out how I want it

But I can't seem to get the progress bar to fill the entire Progress 
Group.  It just wants to sit in the middle and same goes for the Actions 
group.  I tried setting sticky=W+E to make the progress bar stretch out 
and fill the entire Progress Group but that didn't do anything.  From what 
I understand each Group has it's own grid layout within it.  Is this 
correct?  Thank you for any help or advice. ~Ed

I coded it up as follows


        data_frame = Pmw.Group(parent, tag_text='File Info')
        Label(data_frame.interior(), text = "Input 
File:").grid(row=0,column=0)
        Label(data_frame.interior(), textvariable=self._inputLabel, relief 
= "sunken", bg = "white", width = 50, anchor="w").grid(row=0, column=1)
        self.openButt = Button(data_frame.interior(), text="Load", 
padx=20, bg='DodgerBlue', command=self.loadCB).grid(row=0, column=2)
        Label(data_frame.interior(), text="Output File:").grid(row=1, 
column=0)
        Label(data_frame.interior(), textvariable = self._outputLabel, 
relief = "sunken", bg = "white", width = 50, anchor="w").grid(row=1, 
column=1)
        self.saveButt = Button(data_frame.interior(), text="Save", 
padx=20, bg='DodgerBlue', command=self.saveCB).grid(row=1, column=2)
        data_frame.grid(row=0, column=0, sticky=W+E)
 
 

        prog_frame = Pmw.Group(parent, tag_text='Progress')
        self.progressMeter = ProgressMeter(prog_frame.interior(),
                                               finishvalue=100,
                                               progresscolor='DodgerBlue',
                                               labelpos='n',
                                               label_text='')
        prog_frame.grid(row=1, column=0, sticky=W+E)
        self.progressMeter.grid(row=0, column=0, sticky=W+E) #!!won't 
stretch to fill prog_frame

        button_frame = Pmw.Group(parent, tag_text='Actions') 
        self.startButt = Button(button_frame.interior(), 
padx=20,text="Start", bg='Green',command=self.startCB)
        self.exitButt = Button(button_frame.interior(), 
padx=20,text="Exit", bg='red', command=parent.destroy)
        self.pauseButt = Button(button_frame.interior(), 
padx=20,text="Pause", bg='orange', command=self.pauseCB)
        self.startButt.grid(row=0,column=0)
        self.exitButt.grid(row=0, column=1)
        self.pauseButt.grid(row=0, column=2)
        button_frame.grid(row=2, column=0, sticky=W+E)

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I can't seem to figure out how to get the grid layout manager to work.  I'm using the pmw.Group and I have three groups.  I'm having problems arranging the items inside of the groups.



I attached a screenshot of the program to make it easier to see the problem.





The FileInfo group is layed out how I want it



But I can't seem to get the progress bar to fill the entire Progress Group.  It just wants to sit in the middle and same goes for the Actions group.  I tried setting sticky=W+E to make the progress bar stretch out and fill the entire Progress Group but that didn't do anything.  From what I understand each Group has it's own grid layout within it.  Is this correct?  Thank you for any help or advice. ~Ed



I coded it up as follows





        data_frame = Pmw.Group(parent, tag_text='File Info')

        Label(data_frame.interior(), text = "Input File:").grid(row=0,column=0)

        Label(data_frame.interior(), textvariable=self._inputLabel, relief = "sunken", bg = "white", width = 50, anchor="w").grid(row=0, column=1)

        self.openButt = Button(data_frame.interior(), text="Load", padx=20, bg='DodgerBlue', command=self.loadCB).grid(row=0, column=2)

        Label(data_frame.interior(), text="Output File:").grid(row=1, column=0)

        Label(data_frame.interior(), textvariable = self._outputLabel, relief = "sunken", bg = "white", width = 50, anchor="w").grid(row=1, column=1)

        self.saveButt = Button(data_frame.interior(), text="Save", padx=20, bg='DodgerBlue', command=self.saveCB).grid(row=1, column=2)

        data_frame.grid(row=0, column=0, sticky=W+E)

        

        



        prog_frame = Pmw.Group(parent, tag_text='Progress')

        self.progressMeter = ProgressMeter(prog_frame.interior(),

                                               finishvalue=100,

                                               progresscolor='DodgerBlue',

                                               labelpos='n',

                                               label_text='')

        prog_frame.grid(row=1, column=0, sticky=W+E)

        self.progressMeter.grid(row=0, column=0, sticky=W+E) #!!won't stretch to fill prog_frame



        button_frame = Pmw.Group(parent, tag_text='Actions')        

        self.startButt = Button(button_frame.interior(), padx=20,text="Start", bg='Green',command=self.startCB)

        self.exitButt = Button(button_frame.interior(), padx=20,text="Exit", bg='red', command=parent.destroy)

        self.pauseButt = Button(button_frame.interior(), padx=20,text="Pause", bg='orange', command=self.pauseCB)

        self.startButt.grid(row=0,column=0)

        self.exitButt.grid(row=0, column=1)

        self.pauseButt.grid(row=0, column=2)

        button_frame.grid(row=2, column=0, sticky=W+E)


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From dyoo@hkn.eecs.berkeley.edu  Sun Jul 13 21:52:02 2003
From: dyoo@hkn.eecs.berkeley.edu (Danny Yoo)
Date: Sun Jul 13 20:52:02 2003
Subject: [Tutor] newbie confused about text parsing
In-Reply-To: <003e01c3496f$11ab1c90$0217a8c0@win2k>
Message-ID: 


On Sun, 13 Jul 2003, Chris Johnson wrote:

>     I'm a unix administrator and I want to learn python to help in my
> job. I thought parsing a log file would be a good start but I'm stuck on
> how to start.
>
> I'm working with a firewall log file the contents of which look something
> like this.
>   Nov 30 00:58:05 firewall kernel: Shorewall:man1918:DROP:IN=eth0 OUT=
> MAC=ff:ff:ff:ff:ff:ff:00:90:f5:1e:15:aa:08:00 SRC=10.1.2.27 DST=10.1.2.255
> LEN=96 TOS=0x00 PREC=0x00 TTL=128 ID=4853 PROTO=UDP SPT=137 DPT=137 LEN=76

Hi Chris,

Ok, sounds like an interesting project!  Shorewall is based on the Linux
'iptables' system,

    http://www.shorewall.net/

so if you can find a log parser that handles iptables's log format, you
may be able to successfuly use it for shorewall.


Anyway, let's see what we can help with, assuming that there's no
third-party module out there yet.


> I want to loop through log file looking for a string (Shorewall)

This part shouldn't be too hard: as we're looping through the log, we can
look for a "substring" by using each line's find() method.  Lines that
don't have 'Shorewall' should be skipped, and lines that do have it will
need further parsing.  Here's some sample code that says this more
formally:

###
def hasShoreline(s):
    "Returns true if the string 's' has the word "shoreline" in it."
    return s.find('shoreline') != -1

logfile = open("/var/log/messages")
for line in logfile:
    if hasShoreline(line):
        doSomeMoreParsing(line)
###


> then parse each matching line into a dictionary which I can sort or put
> into database fields.
>
> I've been reading the documentation on both modules re and string but
> which do I use. I'd like to run this script all the time so entries are
> added in near real time to the database.

Regular expressions sounds like a good thing for this project.  It's very
likely that you'll need to write a regular expression to extract certain
patterns from the log file.

A.M. Kuchling's written a pretty nice "Python Regular Expression HOWTO"
that's a brief tutorial about regular expressions:

    http://www.amk.ca/python/howto/regex/regex.html


Let's take a look again at that log file line:

>   Nov 30 00:58:05 firewall kernel: Shorewall:man1918:DROP:IN=eth0 OUT=
> MAC=ff:ff:ff:ff:ff:ff:00:90:f5:1e:15:aa:08:00 SRC=10.1.2.27 DST=10.1.2.255
> LEN=96 TOS=0x00 PREC=0x00 TTL=128 ID=4853 PROTO=UDP SPT=137 DPT=137 LEN=76

There apperas to be a fairly consistant pattern here to the field-value
pairs.  There's a uppercased "field name", followed by an equal sign '=',
and then the field value.  In regular expression terms, we's say that
we're looking for:

    [A-Z]+           ## A bunch of uppercased letters, the "field name"
    =                ## followed by the equal sign
    \S+              ## and then the field value.  I'll guess at the
                     ## that this should be any "nonspace"
                     ## character.

In regular expression syntax, the plus sign means "one or more of the
preceding kind of character'.  Now, I have to admit that the above code is
a complete hack: I have no clue if it'll capture all shoreline log
messages properly.

We can try this out, though, and see how well it works:

###
>>> regex = re.compile(r'''     [A-Z]+
...                             =
...                             \S+''', re.VERBOSE)
>>> s = '''Nov 30 00:58:05 firewall kernel: Shorewall:man1918:DROP:
...        IN=eth0 OUT=MAC=ff:ff:ff:ff:ff:ff:00:90:f5:1e:15:aa:08:00
...        SRC=10.1.2.27 DST=10.1.2.255 LEN=96 TOS=0x00 PREC=0x00
...        TTL=128 ID=4853 PROTO=UDP SPT=137 DPT=137 LEN=76'''
>>> regex.findall(s)
['IN=eth0', 'MAC=ff:ff:ff:ff:ff:ff:00:90:f5:1e:15:aa:08:00',
 'SRC=10.1.2.27', 'DST=10.1.2.255', 'LEN=96', 'TOS=0x00', 'PREC=0x00',
 'TTL=128', 'ID=4853', 'PROTO=UDP', 'SPT=137', 'DPT=137', 'LEN=76']
###

Looks sorta decent.  This should get you started.  *grin*


But should we reinvent the wheel?  Let's see... there do appear to be a
few iptables parsers in Perl:

    http://caspian.dotconf.net/menu/Software/ScanAlert/
    http://www.dshield.org/framework.php

I haven't found any iptables parsers in Python yet.  You may want to ask
on the comp.lang.python newsgroup to see if anyone has one already cooked
up.  If you'd like, we can look at one of the Perl ones, and see how one
might port the code into Python.


Good luck to you!



From thomi@thomi.imail.net.nz  Sun Jul 13 22:11:26 2003
From: thomi@thomi.imail.net.nz (Thomas CLive Richards)
Date: Sun Jul 13 21:11:26 2003
Subject: [Tutor] how to specify floating point precision from another
 variable?
In-Reply-To: <3F111A22.4050303@aon.at>
References: <20030713172439.11d763e6.thomi@thomi.imail.net.nz>
 <3F111A22.4050303@aon.at>
Message-ID: <20030714130817.4ef73305.thomi@thomi.imail.net.nz>

> A description of how this has to be done you can find at
> 
> http://www.python.org/doc/current/lib/typesseq-strings.html
> 
> See especially the numbered paragraph 4.

ahaaa.. thank you very much ;) just what i needed.

-- 

Thomi Richards,
thomi@thomi.imail.net.nz



From rmangaliag@slu.edu.ph  Mon Jul 14 01:02:02 2003
From: rmangaliag@slu.edu.ph (rmangaliag@slu.edu.ph)
Date: Mon Jul 14 00:02:02 2003
Subject: [Tutor] can you comment on this article...
Message-ID: <1058157061.3f123205326ef@mbox.slu.edu.ph>

http://www.russellbeattie.com/notebook/20030709.html


-------------------------------------------------
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From phthenry@earthlink.net  Mon Jul 14 09:41:00 2003
From: phthenry@earthlink.net (Paul Tremblay)
Date: Mon Jul 14 08:41:00 2003
Subject: [Tutor] A Telephony Question
Message-ID: <1993714828.20030714083750@csi.com>

I've been using python for a while and love it.. I've seen it and used
it with IBM's (now Apache's) BSF and done numerous console programs...

The problem is this, I can't seem to find a telepohony example
anywhere. I need to dial someone and page them if an Internet
connection goes down and maybe I'm being an idiot, but if someone
could point me in the right direction that would be great. This would
be a windoze system, so maybe a python and TAPI example would be
huge (btw, I'm not a windowz programmer, but this has to be done on
one).

Thanks,

Andrew



From pythontutor@venix.com  Mon Jul 14 11:13:03 2003
From: pythontutor@venix.com (Lloyd Kvam)
Date: Mon Jul 14 10:13:03 2003
Subject: [Tutor] A Telephony Question
In-Reply-To: <1993714828.20030714083750@csi.com>
References: <1993714828.20030714083750@csi.com>
Message-ID: <3F12BA35.3040909@venix.com>

I can't address using TAPI.  If you are using a simple pager service
where the pager message is numbers typed using touch tones, then this
approach may be OK (I used it years ago with a Perl script).

The modem is a comm (serial) device.  Open the COM port and send
ATDT,,,,,,
then send
ATH0

Most modems support a command stream along these lines.

Paul Tremblay wrote:

> I've been using python for a while and love it.. I've seen it and used
> it with IBM's (now Apache's) BSF and done numerous console programs...
> 
> The problem is this, I can't seem to find a telepohony example
> anywhere. I need to dial someone and page them if an Internet
> connection goes down and maybe I'm being an idiot, but if someone
> could point me in the right direction that would be great. This would
> be a windoze system, so maybe a python and TAPI example would be
> huge (btw, I'm not a windowz programmer, but this has to be done on
> one).
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Andrew
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Tutor maillist  -  Tutor@python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor
> 

-- 
Lloyd Kvam
Venix Corp.
1 Court Street, Suite 378
Lebanon, NH 03766-1358

voice:	603-443-6155
fax:	801-459-9582



From DORSEY_EDMUND_K@LILLY.COM  Mon Jul 14 12:23:01 2003
From: DORSEY_EDMUND_K@LILLY.COM (DORSEY_EDMUND_K@LILLY.COM)
Date: Mon Jul 14 11:23:01 2003
Subject: [Tutor] Tkinter layout problem continued
Message-ID: 

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I'm still stuck with the grid manager but this time I coded it up real 
simple and as a running program below.

#
from Tkinter import *
import Pmw
parent = Tk()
parent.geometry("400x200+300+300")

button_frame = Pmw.Group(parent, tag_text='Actions') 
startButt = Button(button_frame.interior(), padx=20,text="Start", 
bg='Green',  command=parent.destroy)
exitButt  = Button(button_frame.interior(), padx=20,text="Exit", bg='red', 
   command=parent.destroy)
pauseButt = Button(button_frame.interior(), padx=20,text="Pause", 
bg='orange', command=parent.destroy)

startButt.grid(row=0,column=0, sticky=W)
exitButt.grid(row=0, column=1, sticky=W)
pauseButt.grid(row=0, column=2, sticky=W) 
button_frame.grid(row=2, column=0, sticky=W+E) #Why doesn't the frame fill 
the window?
 
parent.mainloop()
#

I can't seem to get the button_frame to fill the window eventhough it 
should be expanding from left to right.  The sticky calls don't seem to 
have any affect.  Does anyone know why this might be?  Thank you for any 
advice. ~Ed 
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I'm still stuck with the grid manager but this time I coded it up real simple and as a running program below.



#

from Tkinter import *

import Pmw

parent = Tk()

parent.geometry("400x200+300+300")



button_frame = Pmw.Group(parent, tag_text='Actions')        

startButt = Button(button_frame.interior(), padx=20,text="Start", bg='Green',  command=parent.destroy)

exitButt  = Button(button_frame.interior(), padx=20,text="Exit",  bg='red',    command=parent.destroy)

pauseButt = Button(button_frame.interior(), padx=20,text="Pause", bg='orange', command=parent.destroy)



startButt.grid(row=0,column=0, sticky=W)

exitButt.grid(row=0, column=1, sticky=W)

pauseButt.grid(row=0, column=2, sticky=W)      

button_frame.grid(row=2, column=0, sticky=W+E) #Why doesn't the frame fill the window?

        

parent.mainloop()

#



I can't seem to get the button_frame to fill the window eventhough it should be expanding from left to right.  The sticky calls don't seem to have any affect.  Does anyone know why this might be?  Thank you for any advice. ~Ed 
--=_alternative 00544AC405256D63_=--


From abli@freemail.hu  Mon Jul 14 13:43:03 2003
From: abli@freemail.hu (Abel Daniel)
Date: Mon Jul 14 12:43:03 2003
Subject: [Tutor] Tkinter layout problem continued
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <20030714164150.GA376@hooloovoo>

> #
> from Tkinter import *
> import Pmw
> parent = Tk()
> parent.geometry("400x200+300+300")
> 
> button_frame = Pmw.Group(parent, tag_text='Actions') 
> startButt = Button(button_frame.interior(), padx=20,text="Start", 
> bg='Green',  command=parent.destroy)
> exitButt  = Button(button_frame.interior(), padx=20,text="Exit", bg='red', 
>    command=parent.destroy)
> pauseButt = Button(button_frame.interior(), padx=20,text="Pause", 
> bg='orange', command=parent.destroy)
> 
> startButt.grid(row=0,column=0, sticky=W)
> exitButt.grid(row=0, column=1, sticky=W)
> pauseButt.grid(row=0, column=2, sticky=W) 
> button_frame.grid(row=2, column=0, sticky=W+E) #Why doesn't the frame fill 
> the window?
parent.grid_columnconfigure(0, weight=1)
>  
> parent.mainloop()
> #
Adding that line makes it work for me. The button_frame expands as
expected, revealing that the buttons inside the button_frame have the
same problem. So if you want the buttons to expand, too, you need:

button_frame.interior().grid_columnconfigure(0, weight=1)
button_frame.interior().grid_columnconfigure(1, weight=1)
button_frame.interior().grid_columnconfigure(2, weight=1)

Or, instead of all this grid_columnconfigure-ing you can simply use the
pack geometry manager:

#
from Tkinter import *
import Pmw
parent = Tk()
parent.geometry("400x200+300+300")

button_frame = Pmw.Group(parent, tag_text='Actions') 
startButt = Button(button_frame.interior(), padx=20,text="Start",
        bg='Green',  command=parent.destroy)
exitButt  = Button(button_frame.interior(), padx=20,text="Exit",
        bg='red', command=parent.destroy)
pauseButt = Button(button_frame.interior(), padx=20,text="Pause",
        bg='orange', command=parent.destroy)

startButt.pack(fill=X, side=LEFT, expand=1)
exitButt.pack(fill=X, side=LEFT, expand=1)
pauseButt.pack(fill=X, side=LEFT, expand=1)
button_frame.pack(fill=X, expand=1)

parent.mainloop()
#

And I think the padx=20 options aren't needed.

Abel Daniel


From jeff@ccvcorp.com  Mon Jul 14 15:38:02 2003
From: jeff@ccvcorp.com (Jeff Shannon)
Date: Mon Jul 14 14:38:02 2003
Subject: [Tutor] Bits operations  [another version of binary() using hex()]
References: 	<02c401c3483d$bbd92140$6401a8c0@xp> <20030712205529.1efcc858.thomi@thomi.imail.net.nz>
Message-ID: <3F12F857.4000004@ccvcorp.com>

Thomas Clive Richards wrote:

>The small trouble that i have with using octal as an intermediate step
>between decimal and binary is that one octal digit represents 3 binary
>digits, and this is not easily divisible into an 8 or 16 bit binary
>number. 
>

Once upon a time, there were a variety of mainframe/minicomputer systems 
that were based on 18- or 27-bit words.  For these machines, each 9-bit 
byte would be exactly representable by a 3-digit octal number. 
 Nowadays, virtually every machine on the market uses a word length 
that's some power of two (8, 16, 32, 64), so it makes more sense to use 
hex, where each 8-bit byte is exactly representable by 2 hex digits.  In 
my opinion, support for octal is now a historical relic.  (Keep in mind, 
though, that some historical relics have a long and productive lifetime 
-- COBOL comes to mind.  Despite its "obsolescense", COBOL is still one 
of the most-used computer languages.)

Jeff Shannon
Technician/Programmer
Credit International




From magnus@thinkware.se  Mon Jul 14 16:17:02 2003
From: magnus@thinkware.se (Magnus =?iso-8859-1?Q?Lyck=E5?=)
Date: Mon Jul 14 15:17:02 2003
Subject: [Tutor] Bits operations  [another version of binary()
 using hex()]
In-Reply-To: <3F12F857.4000004@ccvcorp.com>
References: 
 <02c401c3483d$bbd92140$6401a8c0@xp>
 <20030712205529.1efcc858.thomi@thomi.imail.net.nz>
Message-ID: <5.2.1.1.0.20030714210652.01f01cf0@www.thinkware.se>

At 11:37 2003-07-14 -0700, Jeff Shannon wrote:
>In my opinion, support for octal is now a historical relic.

There is at least one important exception...

PostScript and thus also PDF handles octal representation
in strings. Thus (Python) and (\120ython)  are equivalent
to PostScript and PDF. If you want to write the same string
with hex, all characters must be hex, and you have to write:
<507974686f6e>.

This meant that ReportLab broke and had to be rewritten in
a slightly more complicated way when Python changed so that
"print repr('Lyck=E5')" started to return 'Lyck\xe5' instead
of 'Lyck\345'. It had basically put texts into PDF files with
something like
   "(%r)" % text
and that stopped working...

You never know where these anachronisms hide...


--
Magnus Lycka (It's really Lyckå), magnus@thinkware.se
Thinkware AB, Sweden, www.thinkware.se
I code Python ~ The Agile Programming Language=20



From alan.gauld@blueyonder.co.uk  Mon Jul 14 17:08:02 2003
From: alan.gauld@blueyonder.co.uk (Alan Gauld)
Date: Mon Jul 14 16:08:02 2003
Subject: [Tutor] A Telephony Question
References: <1993714828.20030714083750@csi.com>
Message-ID: <039f01c34a43$7e0d7020$6401a8c0@xp>

> The problem is this, I can't seem to find a telepohony example
> anywhere. 

I'm not surprised, telephony falls into the category of:
"The wonderful thing about standards is that there are 
so many to choose from!"

On the PC there are: M$'s TAPI, Novell's NSTAPI, Sun's JTAPI,
plus Dialogic's proprietary one (the de-facto standard for 
first party CTI cards!). 

Given the multiplicity it would be difficult to do a standard 
Pythonic version, it's one area  where you are likely to have 
to write your own DLL or COM interface and wrap that up for Python.

> I need to dial someone and page them if an Internet
> connection goes down and maybe I'm being an idiot, 

If you don't need to handle voice then raw AT modem commands are 
probably the easiest way to go. If you can control the modem 
model there are some proprietary commands (ie non Hayes standard)
for controlling voice messaging too.

Alan G.


From magnus@thinkware.se  Mon Jul 14 19:37:02 2003
From: magnus@thinkware.se (Magnus =?iso-8859-1?Q?Lyck=E5?=)
Date: Mon Jul 14 18:37:02 2003
Subject: [Tutor] can you comment on this article...
In-Reply-To: <1058157061.3f123205326ef@mbox.slu.edu.ph>
Message-ID: <5.2.1.1.0.20030714205204.01ed6a58@www.thinkware.se>

At 12:31 2003-07-14 +0800, rmangaliag@slu.edu.ph wrote:
>http://www.russellbeattie.com/notebook/20030709.html

There are 15 comments already...

It's certainly true that there is nothing like J2EE for
Python. There isn't one standard networked and component
based framework for Python.

On the other hand, there are plenty of frameworks already,
and most of the big ones have Python support.

Python supports CORBA, XML-RPC, SOAP etc. For someone who
wants a pure Python based web development framework, the
main contenders are Zope (which is mainly geared towards
web content management) and Twisted (which can talk in a
lot of different network protocols--great if you want both
HTTP, NTTP, GUI, IRC and e-mail access to your app for
instance). Other frameworks, such as PEAK and Webware and
many others are also being actively developed.

See for instance:
http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/moinmoin/WebProgramming
http://colorstudy.com/docs/shootout.html
http://www.thinkware.se/cgi-bin/thinki.cgi/PythonForInternet

As you see, there is great diversity, and there is a feeling
within the Python community, that more collaboration and some
more standards are a good thing.

This has led to the creation of a new mailing list where this
issue is currently discussed. See comp.lang.python and archives
at http://www.amk.ca/mailman/listinfo/pyweb


--
Magnus Lycka (It's really Lyckå), magnus@thinkware.se
Thinkware AB, Sweden, www.thinkware.se
I code Python ~ The Agile Programming Language 



From mwelsh@abwatley.com  Mon Jul 14 21:55:16 2003
From: mwelsh@abwatley.com (Michael Welsh)
Date: Mon Jul 14 20:55:16 2003
Subject: [Tutor] asyncore, asynchat, sockets, and threads
Message-ID: <200307142050.09026.mwelsh@abwatley.com>

In order to learn sockets in Python I am trying to write a simple chat server 
and client.  I need a little nudge, please.  My question contains some GUI 
but only as decoration.  The root question is asyncore / asynchat.  I have 
read that twisted makes this all simple, but, I wanted to get my hands dirty 
here for educational purposes.

I've managed (with some help from Lee Harr, thank you) to build a small echo 
server with asyncore and asynchat that can handle any number of connections 
and repeat to all clients what was sent in by individual clients.  

The GUI client, wxPython, creates a socket on open.  The user types some text 
and clicks [SEND].  The send event puts the text out to the socket then reads 
the response and adds it to list control.  Everything works well.  

I'm now ready for the next step, to disconnect the send data from the recieve 
data.  So a user who does not send text, still gets what others may have 
written.  I need to somehow poll the thread so "add to list control" can be 
triggered on recieving the data.

I've tried several approaches and can't seem to get it right.  First I tried 
setting up a separate threading.Thread that created the socket.  This way I 
could put a poll on the socket.  I even created (borrowed) a custom event so 
when data was found, it could notify the GUI and call the "add to list 
control"  But I must have been doing it wrong because it kept locking up in 
the loop..  

I knew from the server side that asynchat has built in helpers with 
collect_incoming_data() and found_terminator().  (my terminator is appended 
when data is sent to the server)  I could then use the asyncore.poll() in my 
threading.Thread to raise the custom event that sends data to the GUI, when 
something comes over the socket.

I think I have the concepts right, but the execution breaks down here.  I 
tried having the threading.Thread create an asyn_chat but I keep getting 
errors that I assume the asyncore.dispatcher takes care of.  So... maybe I 
should use both core and chat on the client as well as the server.  The only 
examples of dispatcher I can find open up an asyn_chat on "listen".  The 
client needs to initiate the communication when it starts.  The server is 
listening and will respond.  I won't know on which port the response will 
come back.

Here's some bits showing what I'm trying to do.  You may find some of it 
familiar, sometimes I borrow.  I hope I didn't clip anything that may have 
been needed  If anybody has time to point out where I'm going wrong it would 
be very helpful.  Thank you if you were patient enough to get this far...

import threading
import time
import socket
import asyncore
import asynchat
from   wxPython.wx import *

# server is listening on ...
REMOTE_HOST = '172.0.0.1' 
REMOTE_PORT = 50001

class MyTest(wxFrame):
    def __init__(self, parent, ID, title):
        # Initialize wxFrame
        wxFrame.__init__(self, .....

        # start the thread
        self.network = NetworkThread(self)
        self.network.start()
        EVT_NETWORK(self,self.OnNetwork)

        # build rest of GUI... works fine


# the network thread communicates back to the main
# GUI thread via this sythetic event
class NetworkEvent(wxPyEvent):
    def __init__(self,msg=""):
        wxPyEvent.__init__(self)
        self.SetEventType(wxEVT_NETWORK)
        self.msg = msg

wxEVT_NETWORK = 2000
def EVT_NETWORK(win, func):
    win.Connect(-1, -1, wxEVT_NETWORK, func)

class NetworkThread(threading.Thread):
    def __init__(self,win):
        threading.Thread.__init__(self)
        self.win = win
        self.keep_going = true
        self.running    = false
        self.MySock = NetworkServer(REMOTE_HOST, REMOTE_PORT, 
self.received_a_line)
        self.event_loop = EventLoop()

    def push(self,msg):
        self.MySock.push(msg)
    def is_running(self):
        return self.running
    def stop(self):
        self.keep_going = 0
    def check_status(self,el,time):
        if not self.keep_going:
            asyncore.close_all()
        else:
            self.event_loop.schedule(1,self.check_status)
    def received_a_line(self,m):
        self.send_event(m)
    def run(self):
        self.running = true
        self.event_loop.schedule(1,self.check_status)
        # loop here checking every 0.5 seconds for shutdowns etc..
        self.event_loop.go(0.5)
        # server has shutdown
        self.send_event("Closed down network")
        time.sleep(1)
        self.running = false

    # send a synthetic event back to our GUI thread
    def send_event(self,m):
        evt = NetworkEvent(m)
        wxPostEvent(self.win,evt)
        del evt

class NetworkServer (asyncore.dispatcher):
    def __init__ (self, host, port, handler=None):
        asyncore.dispatcher.__init__(self)
        self.create_socket(socket.AF_INET, socket.SOCK_STREAM)
        self.connect((host, port))

    def handle_connect (self):
        # I thought, maybe, the server would trigger this... nope
        ChatSocket (host, port, self.handler)

    def handle_read (self):
        data = self.recv (8192)
        self.send_event(self.data)
        print data

    def writable (self):
        return (len(self.buffer) > 0)

    def handle_write (self):
        sent = self.send (self.buffer)
        self.buffer = self.buffer[sent:]

    # send a synthetic event back to our GUI thread
    def send_event(self,m):
        evt = NetworkEvent(m)
        wxPostEvent(self.win,evt)
        del evt

class ChatSocket(asynchat.async_chat):
    def __init__(self, host, port, handler=None):
        asynchat.async_chat.__init__ (self, port)

    def collect_incoming_data(self, data):
        self.data.append(data)

    def found_terminator(self):
        if self.handler:
            self.send_event(self.data)
        else:
            print 'warning: unhandled message: ', self.data
        self.data = ''

class EventLoop:
    socket_map = asyncore.socket_map
    def __init__ (self):
        self.events = {}

    def go (self, timeout=5.0):
        events = self.events
        while self.socket_map:
            print 'inner-loop'
            now = int(time.time())
            for k,v in events.items():
                if now >= k:
                    v (self, now)
                    del events[k]
            asyncore.poll (timeout)

    def schedule (self, delta, callback):
        now = int (time.time())
        self.events[now + delta] = callback

    def unschedule (self, callback, all=1):
        "unschedule a callback"
        for k,v in self.events:
            if v is callback:
                del self.events[k]
                if not all:
                    break

# -----------------------------------------
# Run App
# -------------------------------------------
class TestApp(wxApp):
    def OnInit(self):
        frame = MyTest(None, -1, "Test APP")
        frame.Show(true)
        self.SetTopWindow(frame)
        return true

app = TestApp(0)
app.MainLoop()




From magnus@thinkware.se  Mon Jul 14 22:12:02 2003
From: magnus@thinkware.se (Magnus =?iso-8859-1?Q?Lyck=E5?=)
Date: Mon Jul 14 21:12:02 2003
Subject: [Tutor] asyncore, asynchat, sockets, and threads
In-Reply-To: <200307142050.09026.mwelsh@abwatley.com>
Message-ID: <5.2.1.1.0.20030715031254.01f1b930@www.thinkware.se>

At 20:50 2003-07-14 -0400, Michael Welsh wrote:
>I've tried several approaches and can't seem to get it right.  First I tried
>setting up a separate threading.Thread that created the socket.  This way I
>could put a poll on the socket.  I even created (borrowed) a custom event so
>when data was found, it could notify the GUI and call the "add to list
>control"  But I must have been doing it wrong because it kept locking up in
>the loop..

You can only access the GUI in one thread. See
http://wiki.wxpython.org/index.cgi/LongRunningTasks or
http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Cookbook/Python/Recipe/82965


--
Magnus Lycka (It's really Lyckå), magnus@thinkware.se
Thinkware AB, Sweden, www.thinkware.se
I code Python ~ The Agile Programming Language 



From mwagman@charter.net  Mon Jul 14 23:38:03 2003
From: mwagman@charter.net (Mike Wagman)
Date: Mon Jul 14 22:38:03 2003
Subject: [Tutor] Encrypting Passwords
Message-ID: <1058236683.2485.6.camel@24-159-241-21.jvl.wi.charter.com>

Can anyone point me to a good module that handles encrypting password,
ideally one that doesn't have any issues with py2exe, as my final
product will me a stand alone exe.

	Thanks
	Mike  



From carroll@tjc.com  Tue Jul 15 02:58:01 2003
From: carroll@tjc.com (Terry Carroll)
Date: Tue Jul 15 01:58:01 2003
Subject: [Tutor] "from future import division"?
Message-ID: 

I'm running Python 2.2.2 (under Windows).  I want / to perform true 
division, not integer division.  That is, I want 1/2 to return 0.5, not 
0.0.

"Python in a Nutshell" says this will be the default in 2.3, and until 
then, I can either include the line:

 from future import division

or invoke python as

 python -Qnew foo.py

the -Qnew option works, but the import does not:

  ImportError: No module named future

Any ideas?  Is my syntax wrong, or is there a "future" module that's
supposed to come with Python that's missing for me, but that I can
install?  Or is there some other change to the source code I can make to
cause Python to do true division?

I'd like to just use true division, rather than adding decimal points in
every operation to force true division, which looks messy (I'm doing a lot
of reciprocals), and without overriding the command line.


-- 
Terry Carroll        |   "I say to you that the VCR is to the American
Santa Clara, CA      |   film producer and the American public as the 
carroll@tjc.com      |   Boston strangler is to the woman home alone."  
                     |       Jack Valenti, MPAA President
Modell delendus est  |       Testimony before Congress, 1982



From andrewm@object-craft.com.au  Tue Jul 15 03:12:02 2003
From: andrewm@object-craft.com.au (Andrew McNamara)
Date: Tue Jul 15 02:12:02 2003
Subject: [Tutor] "from future import division"?
In-Reply-To: Message from Terry Carroll 
 of "Mon, 14 Jul 2003 22:57:43 MST." 
References: 
Message-ID: <20030715061110.5E9AF3C421@coffee.object-craft.com.au>

>"Python in a Nutshell" says this will be the default in 2.3, and until 
>then, I can either include the line:
>
> from future import division

Try: 

    from __future__ import division

-- 
Andrew McNamara, Senior Developer, Object Craft
http://www.object-craft.com.au/


From abli@freemail.hu  Tue Jul 15 03:15:01 2003
From: abli@freemail.hu (Abel Daniel)
Date: Tue Jul 15 02:15:01 2003
Subject: [Tutor] "from future import division"?
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <20030715061246.GA5087@hooloovoo>

>  from future import division
> 
> or invoke python as
> 
>  python -Qnew foo.py
> 
> the -Qnew option works, but the import does not:
> 
>   ImportError: No module named future
it's 
from __future__ import division

note the two underlines on both sides of 'future'.

(If the underlines are missing in the book, it's most likely a typo.)

Abel Daniel


From carroll@tjc.com  Tue Jul 15 03:36:01 2003
From: carroll@tjc.com (Terry Carroll)
Date: Tue Jul 15 02:36:01 2003
Subject: [Tutor] "from future import division"?
In-Reply-To: <20030715061246.GA5087@hooloovoo>
Message-ID: 

On Tue, 15 Jul 2003, Andrew McNamara wrote:

> Try:
>     from __future__ import division

On Tue, 15 Jul 2003, Abel Daniel wrote:

> it's 
> from __future__ import division
> 
> note the two underlines on both sides of 'future'.
> 
> (If the underlines are missing in the book, it's most likely a typo.)


Thank you to you both.  "from __future__" works correctly.

It is indeed a typo in the book.  I should have checked the errata page
first; that's the very first error listed:
 
 http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/pythonian/errata/pythonian.confirmed

-- 
Terry Carroll        |   "I say to you that the VCR is to the American
Santa Clara, CA      |   film producer and the American public as the 
carroll@tjc.com      |   Boston strangler is to the woman home alone."  
                     |       Jack Valenti, MPAA President
Modell delendus est  |       Testimony before Congress, 1982



From pauljhickey@eircom.net  Tue Jul 15 04:41:59 2003
From: pauljhickey@eircom.net (Paul Hickey)
Date: Tue Jul 15 03:41:59 2003
Subject: [Tutor] How to "grab" a word in a sentance,in Python
Message-ID: <002c01c34aa4$4eb43230$c1b7fea9@pjhickey>

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

------=_NextPart_000_0029_01C34AAC.B0468DB0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi , im trying to "grab" a word or two in a program im trying to write =
in Python, eh im a newbie! to Python and programming.

Something like " input.... What is your favourite hobby?
                        Answer.... I like to play golf.
                        With a reply    print "never played golf, sounds =
boring!!!!"

I tried to put the "key" word in a list but could not get it to work, =
ive tried some other ideas to no avail.
Any pointers would be great.
Thanks
Paul.

------=_NextPart_000_0029_01C34AAC.B0468DB0
Content-Type: text/html;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable









Hi , im trying to "grab" a word or two =
in a program=20
im trying to write in Python, eh im a newbie! to Python and=20
programming.


 


Something like " input.... What is your =
favourite=20
hobby?


       =20
            =
   =20
Answer.... I like to play golf.


       =20
            =
    With=20
a reply    print "never played golf, sounds=20
boring!!!!"


 


I tried to put the "key" word in a list =
but could=20
not get it to work, ive tried some other ideas to no avail.


Any pointers would be =
great.


Thanks


Paul.


 


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From magnus@thinkware.se  Tue Jul 15 08:37:02 2003
From: magnus@thinkware.se (Magnus =?iso-8859-1?Q?Lyck=E5?=)
Date: Tue Jul 15 07:37:02 2003
Subject: [Tutor] Encrypting Passwords
In-Reply-To: <1058236683.2485.6.camel@24-159-241-21.jvl.wi.charter.com>
Message-ID: <5.2.1.1.0.20030715132719.01f28508@www.thinkware.se>

At 21:38 2003-07-14 -0500, Mike Wagman wrote:
>Can anyone point me to a good module that handles encrypting password,
>ideally one that doesn't have any issues with py2exe, as my final
>product will me a stand alone exe.

 >>> import md5
 >>> seed = "42"
 >>> digest = md5.new(seed)
 >>> digest.update('My Password')
 >>> digest.hexdigest()
'22634f73ad7d03dbf826edc1e8fc68c6'

If md5 isn't secure enough for you:

 >>> import sha
 >>> digest = sha.new(seed)
 >>> digest.update('My Password')
 >>> digest.hexdigest()
'933257a3349a248d1e0fb19d7c953a00ff004a1d'

md5 and sha are built-in modules, I assume they will always work.



--
Magnus Lycka (It's really Lyckå), magnus@thinkware.se
Thinkware AB, Sweden, www.thinkware.se
I code Python ~ The Agile Programming Language 



From pythontutor@venix.com  Tue Jul 15 11:09:30 2003
From: pythontutor@venix.com (Lloyd Kvam)
Date: Tue Jul 15 10:09:30 2003
Subject: [Tutor] ldap access from Python Help
In-Reply-To: <3F047655.1050204@mayo.edu>
References: <3F047655.1050204@mayo.edu>
Message-ID: <3F140AC0.7070708@venix.com>

Just saw a link to this article:
http://www.linuxjournal.com//article.php?sid=6988
LDAP Programming in Python

Should fit the bill.
(I remembered you request because I may soon face a similar need.)

Dinakar wrote:

> Hello:
> 
> I would like to use Python to access LDAP server to get email address  
> and other info from our local ldap server. Can someone suggest what all 
> the things I need to do to access. Do I need to install any modules or 
> some other software.
> 
> I am running Debian (testing) GNU/Linux and Python 2.2.3
> 
> Thank you very much.
> 
> /dinakar
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Tutor maillist  -  Tutor@python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor
> 

-- 
Lloyd Kvam
Venix Corp.
1 Court Street, Suite 378
Lebanon, NH 03766-1358

voice:	603-443-6155
fax:	801-459-9582



From baris.metin@frontsite.com.tr  Tue Jul 15 13:10:17 2003
From: baris.metin@frontsite.com.tr (Baris Metin)
Date: Tue Jul 15 12:10:17 2003
Subject: [Tutor] ldap access from Python Help
In-Reply-To: <3F140AC0.7070708@venix.com>
References: <3F047655.1050204@mayo.edu> <3F140AC0.7070708@venix.com>
Message-ID: <20030715160900.GK13193@frontsite.com.tr>

--PZYVFYZbFYjzBslI
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-9
Content-Disposition: inline

Tue, Jul 15, 2003 at 10:08:00AM -0400 , Lloyd Kvam :
> Just saw a link to this article:
> http://www.linuxjournal.com//article.php?sid=6988
> LDAP Programming in Python
>
> Should fit the bill.
> (I remembered you request because I may soon face a similar need.)
                                                                                                                                               
> >I would like to use Python to access LDAP server to get email address
> >and other info from our local ldap server. Can someone suggest what
> >all
> >the things I need to do to access. Do I need to install any modules
> >or
> >some other software.
> >
> >I am running Debian (testing) GNU/Linux and Python 2.2.3
                                                                                                                                               
Just install the python-ldap package. (apt-get install python-ldap).
                                                                                                                                               
For an example you can take a look at my test script:
ftp://ev.metin.org/ldapekle.py (be carefull with the bad code :).
                                                                                                                                               
regards,
--
 __________
|          |
|          |  Baris Metin
|          |  Software developer, IT consultant
|    FRONT |
|==========|  FrontSITE Bilgi Teknolojisi A.S.
|_____SITE_|  http://www.frontsite.com.tr

--PZYVFYZbFYjzBslI
Content-Type: application/pgp-signature
Content-Disposition: inline

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Version: GnuPG v1.2.1 (GNU/Linux)
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--PZYVFYZbFYjzBslI--


From qsc@icon.co.za  Tue Jul 15 13:42:02 2003
From: qsc@icon.co.za (Quentin)
Date: Tue Jul 15 12:42:02 2003
Subject: [Tutor] looking for data in large text file
Message-ID: <3F142EB5.500@icon.co.za>

Hi All
Newbie here.
I want to lookup a list in a large text file (hunderd or so lines). The 
list I then use in a combobox.
Got the wxComboBox figured out, and how to load it with a list.

I want to keep the lists for various comboboxes in one text file. This 
makes it easier to edit via other means besides Python. (Something like 
a Windows .INI file with all your settings in it).
But how do I look for a list in a text file without have to readline the 
whole file?

I keep on refering to lists, with that I mean the list that loads into 
the combobox, not necessary the way it is stored in a text file.

Please, no code, just some suggestions. I need to figure out the code 
for myself.

Thanks
Quentin



From SWidney@ci.las-vegas.nv.us  Tue Jul 15 14:02:01 2003
From: SWidney@ci.las-vegas.nv.us (Scott Widney)
Date: Tue Jul 15 13:02:01 2003
Subject: [Tutor] looking for data in large text file
Message-ID: <0E5508EBA1620743B409A2B8365DE16FDC869A@sovereign.ci.las-vegas.nv.us>

> I want to keep the lists for various comboboxes in one text 
> file. This makes it easier to edit via other means besides
> Python. (Something like a Windows .INI file with all your
> settings in it). But how do I look for a list in a text file
> without have to readline the whole file?

Welcome! Have you looked at the ConfigParser module? It seems like it might
be what you're looking for. It's covered in the Library Reference in section
5.10; the URL for the on-line version is:

http://www.python.org/doc/current/lib/module-ConfigParser.html


Best of luck!
Scott


From dbroadwell@mindspring.com  Tue Jul 15 14:28:02 2003
From: dbroadwell@mindspring.com (David Broadwell)
Date: Tue Jul 15 13:28:02 2003
Subject: [Tutor] Encrypting Passwords
In-Reply-To: <1058236683.2485.6.camel@24-159-241-21.jvl.wi.charter.com>
Message-ID: 

> Can anyone point me to a good module that handles encrypting password,
> ideally one that doesn't have any issues with py2exe, as my final
> product will me a stand alone exe.
For a lightweight implementation of DES in pure python try;
http://home.pacific.net.au/~twhitema/des.html

I implemented a password database system for myself in that,
despite it's warning about being slow on a pII450 it was
always fast enough.

--

David Broadwell


From sigurd@12move.de  Tue Jul 15 14:33:08 2003
From: sigurd@12move.de (Karl =?iso-8859-1?q?Pfl=E4sterer?=)
Date: Tue Jul 15 13:33:08 2003
Subject: [Tutor] How to "grab" a word in a sentance,in Python
In-Reply-To: <002c01c34aa4$4eb43230$c1b7fea9@pjhickey> (Paul Hickey's
 message of "Tue, 15 Jul 2003 08:40:04 +0100")
References: <002c01c34aa4$4eb43230$c1b7fea9@pjhickey>
Message-ID: 

On 15 Jul 2003, Paul Hickey <- pauljhickey@eircom.net wrote:

> Hi , im trying to "grab" a word or two in a program im trying to write in
> Python, eh im a newbie! to Python and programming.

> Something like " input.... What is your favourite hobby?
>                         Answer.... I like to play golf. With a reply print
>                         "never played golf, sounds boring!!!!"

> I tried to put the "key" word in a list but could not get it to work,
> ive tried some other ideas to no avail.=20
> Any pointers would be great.

Could you elaborate a bit what you like to do?  What do these words you
like to filter have in common (in regard to the answer given)? Eg. are
they always at the same place (the last word in the sentence). etc


   Karl
--=20
M=E4nner der Wissenschaft! Man sagt ihr viele nach,=20
aber die meisten mit Unrecht.=20=20
                             Karl Kraus 'Aphorismen'



From dyoo@hkn.eecs.berkeley.edu  Tue Jul 15 14:35:02 2003
From: dyoo@hkn.eecs.berkeley.edu (Danny Yoo)
Date: Tue Jul 15 13:35:02 2003
Subject: [Tutor] How to "grab" a word in a sentance,in Python
In-Reply-To: <002c01c34aa4$4eb43230$c1b7fea9@pjhickey>
Message-ID: 


On Tue, 15 Jul 2003, Paul Hickey wrote:

> Hi , im trying to "grab" a word or two in a program im trying to write
> in Python, eh im a newbie! to Python and programming.
>
> Something like " input.... What is your favourite hobby?
>                         Answer.... I like to play golf.
>   With a reply    print "never played golf, sounds boring!!!!"
>
> I tried to put the "key" word in a list but could not get it to work,
> ive tried some other ideas to no avail. Any pointers would be great.


Hi Paul,


To check to see if a keyword lives in a sentence or not, we can use a
string's find() method.  Here's a brief description of its documentation:


###
>>> help(''.find)

Help on built-in function find:

find(...)
    S.find(sub [,start [,end]]) -> int

    Return the lowest index in S where substring sub is found,
    such that sub is contained within s[start,end].  Optional
    arguments start and end are interpreted as in slice notation.

    Return -1 on failure.
###


The last part of the description is really useful: it says that as long as
find() doesn't return -1, we can find the substring within the larger
string fine.


For example, here's a sample interpreter session that shows a little what
find() does:

###
>>> s = 'this is a test'
>>> s.find('zork!')
-1
>>> s.find('is')
2
>>> s.find('his')
1
###


Try a few examples one your own with find(), just to get a sense of what
it's doing.


By the way, the last find() example shows a problem we can run into: we
might find our keyword embedded within a larger word.  ('his' is a
substring of 'this').  That's something we'll need to fix, but we can come
back to it later.


This should be enough for you to write a simple program to detect a
keyword in a sentence; show us what you've tried so far, and we can make
comments for improvement.  And please feel free to ask questions; we'll be
happy to chat about this.


Good luck to you!



From dyoo@hkn.eecs.berkeley.edu  Tue Jul 15 15:56:01 2003
From: dyoo@hkn.eecs.berkeley.edu (Danny Yoo)
Date: Tue Jul 15 14:56:01 2003
Subject: [Tutor] How to "grab" a word in a sentance,in Python (fwd)
Message-ID: 

Hi everyone,


I'm forwarding Paul's message to the list --- I'm actually slightly busy
at the moment, but I'll try getting to it later today.


Quick response: I recommend trying your program with just one keyword:
have it respond to just 'golf' for the moment.  We can always improve it
later to make it respond to both 'golf' and 'tennis'.


Paul, don't worry about my time; we're all volunteers here.  *grin* But
make sure you're sending your replies to the list at 'tutor@python.org',
so that even if I'm out of commission, the other tutors can help you.


Good luck!


---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 19:11:45 +0100
From: Paul Hickey 
To: Danny Yoo 
Subject: Re: [Tutor] How to "grab" a word in a sentance,in Python

Thanks Danny, sorry about this I think I jumped in too quick!! But I find
that in the end its the best way!!You learn more quicker and have fun!
Sorry to take your time .

Im a bit wide of the mark it seems, what I wrote ( in my naivety!) is :
    #def list ():
            list = ['golf' 'tennis' ]
            item = raw_input("What is your favourite pastime")
            if item == list:
                print '',item.',is boring!!! Get a life!!''
            elif item != list:
           print 'never did,',item,'sounds pretty cool!'
The "key" word could be anywhere in the sentence, ie" I like swimming" or "
I do like to go swimming"
Embarrassingly that's it!!
Hey im a Newbie.. I would happily let this go only im havin fun doin this!
The rest of the program is pretty simple but works, if i can crack this ill
be a happy dude for awhile! And impress the hell out of my friends.!
Tell me to get off your case , and go back to simple stuff, I can take a
hint
Thanks for your time
Paul Hickey



----- Original Message -----
From: "Danny Yoo" 
To: "Paul Hickey" 
Cc: 
Sent: Tuesday, July 15, 2003 6:34 PM
Subject: Re: [Tutor] How to "grab" a word in a sentance,in Python


>
>
> On Tue, 15 Jul 2003, Paul Hickey wrote:
>
> > Hi , im trying to "grab" a word or two in a program im trying to write
> > in Python, eh im a newbie! to Python and programming.
> >
> > Something like " input.... What is your favourite hobby?
> >                         Answer.... I like to play golf.
> >   With a reply    print "never played golf, sounds boring!!!!"
> >
> > I tried to put the "key" word in a list but could not get it to work,
> > ive tried some other ideas to no avail. Any pointers would be great.
>
>
> Hi Paul,
>
>
> To check to see if a keyword lives in a sentence or not, we can use a
> string's find() method.  Here's a brief description of its documentation:
>
>
> ###
> >>> help(''.find)
>
> Help on built-in function find:
>
> find(...)
>     S.find(sub [,start [,end]]) -> int
>
>     Return the lowest index in S where substring sub is found,
>     such that sub is contained within s[start,end].  Optional
>     arguments start and end are interpreted as in slice notation.
>
>     Return -1 on failure.
> ###
>
>
> The last part of the description is really useful: it says that as long as
> find() doesn't return -1, we can find the substring within the larger
> string fine.
>
>
> For example, here's a sample interpreter session that shows a little what
> find() does:
>
> ###
> >>> s = 'this is a test'
> >>> s.find('zork!')
> -1
> >>> s.find('is')
> 2
> >>> s.find('his')
> 1
> ###
>
>
> Try a few examples one your own with find(), just to get a sense of what
> it's doing.
>
>
> By the way, the last find() example shows a problem we can run into: we
> might find our keyword embedded within a larger word.  ('his' is a
> substring of 'this').  That's something we'll need to fix, but we can come
> back to it later.
>
>
> This should be enough for you to write a simple program to detect a
> keyword in a sentence; show us what you've tried so far, and we can make
> comments for improvement.  And please feel free to ask questions; we'll be
> happy to chat about this.
>
>
> Good luck to you!
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Tutor maillist  -  Tutor@python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor
>
>





From pauljhickey@eircom.net  Tue Jul 15 17:58:02 2003
From: pauljhickey@eircom.net (Paul Hickey)
Date: Tue Jul 15 16:58:02 2003
Subject: [Tutor] How to "grab" a Word Update!Im gettin there!!
Message-ID: <005401c34b13$a06dfb50$c1b7fea9@pjhickey>

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

------=_NextPart_000_0051_01C34B1C.02182490
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi, with help from you , I've got this far,

        s =3D raw_input("What do you like to do")
        if s.find('music')
            print "So you like music then!"
        elif s.find('golf')
            print "You like golf, boring!!"
        elif s.find('walking')
            print " Us computers can't walk!"

This works fine when only one argument is present, naturally im trying =
to push it!!!!!
Problem is it returns the first print statement whatever you enter,I've =
played with this with no joy as yet
Thanks for your help so far.
Sorry to be a pest....
Paul
------=_NextPart_000_0051_01C34B1C.02182490
Content-Type: text/html;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable









Hi, with help from you , I've got this=20
far,


 


        s =
=3D=20
raw_input("What do you like to do")


        =
if=20
s.find('music')


       =20
    print "So you like music then!"


        =
elif=20
s.find('golf')


       =20
    print "You like golf, boring!!"


        =
elif=20
s.find('walking')


       =20
    print " Us computers can't walk!"


 


This works fine when only one argument =
is present,=20
naturally im trying to push it!!!!!


Problem is it returns the first print =
statement=20
whatever you enter,I've played with this with no joy as yet


Thanks for your help so =
far.


Sorry to be a pest....


Paul


------=_NextPart_000_0051_01C34B1C.02182490--




From dyoo@hkn.eecs.berkeley.edu  Tue Jul 15 18:32:01 2003
From: dyoo@hkn.eecs.berkeley.edu (Danny Yoo)
Date: Tue Jul 15 17:32:01 2003
Subject: [Tutor] How to "grab" a Word Update!Im gettin there!!
In-Reply-To: <005401c34b13$a06dfb50$c1b7fea9@pjhickey>
Message-ID: 


On Tue, 15 Jul 2003, Paul Hickey wrote:

> Hi, with help from you , I've got this far,
>
>         s = raw_input("What do you like to do")
>         if s.find('music')
>             print "So you like music then!"
>         elif s.find('golf')
>             print "You like golf, boring!!"
>         elif s.find('walking')
>             print " Us computers can't walk!"
>
> This works fine when only one argument is present, naturally im trying
> to push it!!!!! Problem is it returns the first print statement whatever
> you enter,I've played with this with no joy as yet Thanks for your help
> so far. Sorry to be a pest.... Paul


Hi Paul,

No problem.  *grin* Glad to see that you're getting closer.



The condition that you're checking:

    elif s.find('walking')
         ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

is almost right.  To fix that problem, take a look again at that message I
sent about find():

    http://mail.python.org/pipermail/tutor/2003-July/024021.html


Remember that find() isn't giving a "yes/no" sort of answer: it's giving
the position where it can find 'walking'.  We need to do something extra
with that result to turn it into a yes/no "boolean" thing.


Good luck!



From sigurd@12move.de  Tue Jul 15 19:16:31 2003
From: sigurd@12move.de (Karl =?iso-8859-1?q?Pfl=E4sterer?=)
Date: Tue Jul 15 18:16:31 2003
Subject: [Tutor] How to "grab" a word in a sentance,in Python (fwd)
In-Reply-To:  (Danny
 Yoo's message of "Tue, 15 Jul 2003 11:54:59 -0700 (PDT)")
References: 
Message-ID: 

On 15 Jul 2003, Danny Yoo <- dyoo@hkn.eecs.berkeley.edu wrote:

> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 19:11:45 +0100
> From: Paul Hickey 
> To: Danny Yoo 
> Subject: Re: [Tutor] How to "grab" a word in a sentance,in Python
>
> Thanks Danny, sorry about this I think I jumped in too quick!! But I find
> that in the end its the best way!!You learn more quicker and have fun!
> Sorry to take your time .
>
> Im a bit wide of the mark it seems, what I wrote ( in my naivety!) is :
>     #def list ():
>             list = ['golf' 'tennis' ]
>             item = raw_input("What is your favourite pastime")
>             if item == list:
>                 print '',item.',is boring!!! Get a life!!''
>             elif item != list:
>            print 'never did,',item,'sounds pretty cool!'
> The "key" word could be anywhere in the sentence, ie" I like swimming" or "
> I do like to go swimming"
> Embarrassingly that's it!!

So we know now what you want: you get input and like to find a certain
word in it.  The wors you like to find are in a list.

First of all: it's not good to use a python builtin (like `list') as
name for a function or a variable (if you don't know what the names of
the builtins are type `dir(__builtins__)' at your python prompt).

So let's see how the functiobn could look like (Danny wrote about `find'
I'll show another version)

Python has a nice function with which you can search for the occurence
of an object in a sequence: `in'
>>> 'a' in ['a', 'b', 'c']
1
>>> 

So the only problem is how to coerce the return value from raw_input' to
a list?  For that we have a function: split
>>> s = 'this is a test'
>>> s.split()
['this', 'is', 'a', 'test']
>>> 

Now we build the function:

def answer():
    item = 'golf'
    ans  = raw_input("What is your favourite pastime")
    ansl = ans.split()
    if item in ansl:
        print ans, 'is boring!!! Get a life!'
    else:
        print 'never did', ans, 'sounds pretty cool!'


That's just one item but you like a list of items.  So our check must be
done for all items in the list and we would like to see if it suceeds
for at least one item.

The simplest way (IMO) is here to use list comprehensions (for a good
explaination look in the python tutorial).  Short: they are a concise
way to build lists.  They are written like that
>>> [x for x in range(10) if x > 5]
[6, 7, 8, 9]

That means I told Python to build a list of `x' whereat x was assigned
0, 1, 2 ... 9 but the actual value of x was only used to build the list
if x was greater than 5 (a silly example but you see what can be done)

def answer():
    iteml = ['golf', 'tennis']
    ans   = raw_input("What is your favourite pastime")
    ansl  = ans.split()
    item = [x for x in iteml if x in ansl]
    if item:
        print ans, 'is boring!!! Get a life!'
    else:
        print 'never did', ans ,'sounds pretty cool!'


Try to understand what's happening.  The next thing to do could be to
first downcase or upcase all characters before they are compared (at the
moment the comparsion is case significant.  The next step could be to
take out `iteml' and the prompt out of the function and write the
function with two parameters (the itemlist and the prompt).

HTH

   Karl
-- 
   Mary had a little lambda,
   Its syntax white as snow,
   And every program Mary wrote,
   She wrote in Lisp, you know.



From missive@hotmail.com  Tue Jul 15 22:59:01 2003
From: missive@hotmail.com (Lee Harr)
Date: Tue Jul 15 21:59:01 2003
Subject: [Tutor] Re: asyncore, asynchat, sockets, and threads
Message-ID: 

# server is listening on ...
REMOTE_HOST = '172.0.0.1'  # This looks funny... Do you mean
                                             #  127.0.0.1  ?
REMOTE_PORT = 50001


I think your intuition about using a Queue may be the
right thing in the gui client to you chat server.

Basically, you would have 2 threads:

Network client thread feeds messages in to queue.
Gui thread reads messages from queue and displays them.

_________________________________________________________________
Add photos to your messages with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. 
http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail



From Zabelkind@web.de  Wed Jul 16 04:34:20 2003
From: Zabelkind@web.de (Mathias Mamsch)
Date: Wed Jul 16 03:34:20 2003
Subject: [Tutor] looking for data in large text file
References: <3F142EB5.500@icon.co.za>
Message-ID: <007e01c34c36$133289d0$0500a8c0@nias>

You could just store some Inventory of the file somewhere and then read only
the bit of the file, you need to read. See the documentation of file.seek()
and file.tell() ...

Greetings, Mathias

----- Original Message -----
From: "Quentin" 
To: 
Sent: Tuesday, July 15, 2003 6:41 PM
Subject: [Tutor] looking for data in large text file


> Hi All
> Newbie here.
> I want to lookup a list in a large text file (hunderd or so lines). The
> list I then use in a combobox.
> Got the wxComboBox figured out, and how to load it with a list.
>
> I want to keep the lists for various comboboxes in one text file. This
> makes it easier to edit via other means besides Python. (Something like
> a Windows .INI file with all your settings in it).
> But how do I look for a list in a text file without have to readline the
> whole file?
>
> I keep on refering to lists, with that I mean the list that loads into
> the combobox, not necessary the way it is stored in a text file.
>
> Please, no code, just some suggestions. I need to figure out the code
> for myself.
>
> Thanks
> Quentin
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Tutor maillist  -  Tutor@python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor



From alan.gauld@blueyonder.co.uk  Wed Jul 16 05:07:03 2003
From: alan.gauld@blueyonder.co.uk (Alan Gauld)
Date: Wed Jul 16 04:07:03 2003
Subject: [Tutor] looking for data in large text file
References: <3F142EB5.500@icon.co.za>
Message-ID: <001401c34b71$307afce0$6401a8c0@xp>

> But how do I look for a list in a text file without have to readline
the
> whole file?

First reading even a thousand lines won't take all that long.
However you only need to read as many lines as it takes to get
your list out.

Second, you could store the lists in separate files.

Third you could put a table of contents at the top of the file
giving the byte offset to the start of each list then use seek()
to go there directly - but the maintenance of that will be a lot
of work and not noramally worth it for such relatively short files.

Finally, and the method I would probably use - read the file once at
startup and store the lists in memory somewhere.

Alan G
Author of the Learn to Program web tutor
http://www.freenetpages.co.uk/hp/alan.gauld



From alan.gauld@blueyonder.co.uk  Wed Jul 16 05:13:02 2003
From: alan.gauld@blueyonder.co.uk (Alan Gauld)
Date: Wed Jul 16 04:13:02 2003
Subject: [Tutor] How to "grab" a word in a sentance,in Python (fwd)
References: 
Message-ID: <002101c34b71$f6e44ad0$6401a8c0@xp>

> Im a bit wide of the mark it seems, what I wrote ( in my naivety!)
is :
>     #def list ():
>             list = ['golf' 'tennis' ]
>             item = raw_input("What is your favourite pastime")
>             if item == list:

THis says "if item equals the list" but item is single the list is
plural.
Instead try

 if item in list


>             elif item != list:

and similarly

 if item not in list

However using list as a variable name is bad since its also a python
function used to convert things to lists! Mabe 'pastimes' would be
a better name? Generally its a good idea to name variables after
the problem objects rather than to reflect their structure
(which might change!)

Alan G
Author of the Learn to Program web tutor
http://www.freenetpages.co.uk/hp/alan.gauld



From mwelsh@abwatley.com  Wed Jul 16 10:02:01 2003
From: mwelsh@abwatley.com (Michael Welsh)
Date: Wed Jul 16 09:02:01 2003
Subject: [Tutor] Re: asyncore, asynchat, sockets, and threads
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <200307160856.02929.mwelsh@abwatley.com>

On Tuesday 15 July 2003 09:58 pm, Lee Harr wrote:
>
> I think your intuition about using a Queue may be the
> right thing in the gui client to you chat server.
>
> Basically, you would have 2 threads:
>
> Network client thread feeds messages in to queue.
> Gui thread reads messages from queue and displays them.
>

I may still turn to Queues but I got the basic plumbing working without them 
late last night.  Reading the aysncore.py / asynchat.py source and the 
following documentation helped:

Medusa  http://www.nightmare.com/medusa/programming.html
PythonDev http://www.python.org/dev/doc/devel/lib/module-asynchat.html

I also have a few Python books that do their best to explain these concepts.  
I'll admit, programming asyn socket communication is not trivial the first 
time you do it.  But that is true of most things. 

Here's what I've learned so far on the client side...maybe it will help 
somebody who is just discovering asyn.

The main app inits a frame which inits a Thread and a ListCtrl among others.  
I then build the rest of the GUI including a function to recieve a 'custom 
network event'.  This simple function calls my 'list.add' function of the 
ListCtrl.  The custom network event is a separate class.  

The Thread creates a socket.socket, connects it (to the pre-defined constants 
- my server app on a different machine),  and hands the socket off to an 
instance of asyn_chat.  Discovering that you hand a live socket to aysn_chat 
was my first "AH-HA" moment.  It kinda 'clicked' that the asyncore/asynchat 
collection is just a bunch of functions that help you work the live wire.

Also included with the hand-off is a handler function that gets fired when the 
async_chat.collect_incoming_data gets fired.  The handler function belongs to 
the Thread and only does one thing: call the custom network event... all the 
while passing the data from the socket as it goes.  

After socket creation, connection, and hand-off, the Thread then calls an 
instance of a custom event loop class containing an asyncore.loop.  It took 
me a little while to figure out that it is OK to call the aysncore.loop on an 
asyn_chat object without a dispatcher.   In all the samples, newsgroup 
threads, etc that I read; they all created an aysn_chat FROM the 
asyncore.dispatcher on listen().  AH-HA number two... you don't need a 
disptcher because asyn_chat IS a dispatcher (read the source).  

One of the great things about Python (and wxPython in my case) is that all 
this is tested and works on NT and Linux.  I haven't tried to package it for 
distribution.  So, to summarize:

On App Launch
frame > thread, list
thread > socket > asyn_chat > loop

On User Input
send data to thread.socket (asyn_chat).push
..goes to server, server echos to all

On All Clients
asyn_chat colletcts > calls handler function (thread)
thread fires network event
GUI recieves event > calls list.add

My next steps are to have the server log all messages to a database.  I also 
want to add authentication.  Maybe even the abiltiy to choose from several 
'channels' before socket creation.  If I can make it modular enough, I may be 
able to 'plug in' comm abilities to other apps.  Hmmm, streaming data over 
the wire... Hey, asyn socket communication can really be fun!

Michael




From godoy@metalab.unc.edu  Wed Jul 16 10:53:01 2003
From: godoy@metalab.unc.edu (Jorge Godoy)
Date: Wed Jul 16 09:53:01 2003
Subject: [Tutor] Finding out if we can use a graphical environment or not
Message-ID: 

Hi!


How can I find out if my program is running unde X or Windows instead
of a console / DOS prompt? I'm willing to have two interfaces that are
chosen based on where the user can see graphics or not (I'm
disregarding the use of framebuffer). 


TIA,
-- 
Godoy.     


From qsc@icon.co.za  Wed Jul 16 11:09:01 2003
From: qsc@icon.co.za (Quentin)
Date: Wed Jul 16 10:09:01 2003
Subject: [Tutor] OT: Admin suggestion: Add reply address to mailer
Message-ID: <3F155C41.7000800@icon.co.za>

All the lists I belong to have an auto reply address that will return 
all replies back to the list, instead of to the original poster. Most 
mailing list servers have this option. Is it possible for the Tutor list 
to have it as well?
If this was a pre decided decision not to have a reply address, I'll 
stand by it, else (elif? :) ), how do the other members feel about it?

Quentin



From godoy@metalab.unc.edu  Wed Jul 16 11:36:34 2003
From: godoy@metalab.unc.edu (Jorge Godoy)
Date: Wed Jul 16 10:36:34 2003
Subject: [Tutor] Finding out if we can use a graphical environment or
 not
In-Reply-To: <1058365330.2423.0.camel@24-159-241-21.jvl.wi.charter.com> (Mike
 Wagman's message of "16 Jul 2003 09:22:10 -0500")
References: 
 <1058365330.2423.0.camel@24-159-241-21.jvl.wi.charter.com>
Message-ID: 

Mike Wagman  writes:

> use try: to create your GUI if it fails then it's probably not there.

Hmmm... This mean I'd have to expend resources importing the wxPython
modules and trying to setup the whole environment before I import the
curses modules and setup the correct environment? It will work --- and
I confess I haven't tried it --- but is there any faster way to detect
it? 


Thank you very much for your help.


-- 
Godoy.     


From lonetwin@yahoo.com  Wed Jul 16 11:44:02 2003
From: lonetwin@yahoo.com (lonetwin)
Date: Wed Jul 16 10:44:02 2003
Subject: [Tutor] Finding out if we can use a graphical environment or not
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <200307162027.27742.lonetwin@yahoo.com>

Hi Jorge,

On Wednesday 16 Jul 2003 7:22 pm, Jorge Godoy wrote:
> How can I find out if my program is running unde X or Windows instead
> of a console / DOS prompt? I'm willing to have two interfaces that are
> chosen based on where the user can see graphics or not (I'm
> disregarding the use of framebuffer).
    To distinguish between X or console mode you can rely on the 'DISPLAY' 
environment variable.

 ie:
>>> if os.environ.get('DISPLAY', 1) == 1:
...    # we are in console
... else:
...    # we are in X

I'm sorry I dunno about windows/dos.

HTH
Peace
Steve

-- 
Machines take me by surprise with great frequency.
- Alan Turing


From magnus@thinkware.se  Wed Jul 16 12:07:22 2003
From: magnus@thinkware.se (Magnus =?iso-8859-1?Q?Lyck=E5?=)
Date: Wed Jul 16 11:07:22 2003
Subject: [Tutor] OT: Admin suggestion: Add reply address to mailer
In-Reply-To: <3F155C41.7000800@icon.co.za>
Message-ID: <5.2.1.1.0.20030716170201.01f34940@www.thinkware.se>

At 16:08 2003-07-16 +0200, Quentin wrote:
>All the lists I belong to have an auto reply address that will return all 
>replies back to the list, instead of to the original poster. Most mailing 
>list servers have this option. Is it possible for the Tutor list to have 
>it as well?

We've been through this, it's somewhere in the archives.
The simple answer is that with most email clients, it's
easy to answer either to the list of to the sender if
it's set up as it is now.

Just 'reply' will reply to the sender, and 'reply to all'
will also reply to the list.

With 'reply-to' header set to the list, it requires some
manual labour to reply to the sender with most email clients.

It's always good to prune the headers of an email manually,
just as you should prune the rest of the mail, for instance
removing uneeded quotes of previous mails.

Also, if you have the 'reply-to' set to the mailing list, and
just use 'reply' in your email client, the attribution for
quotes will typically say "you wrote" instead of for instance
"Quentin wrote".

I guess the best thing would be if every subscriber could set
up what they want 'reply-to' set to. Perhaps that is a reasonable
feature request for Mailman? Or can it be configured like that?


--
Magnus Lycka (It's really Lyckå), magnus@thinkware.se
Thinkware AB, Sweden, www.thinkware.se
I code Python ~ The Agile Programming Language 



From magnus@thinkware.se  Wed Jul 16 12:11:03 2003
From: magnus@thinkware.se (Magnus =?iso-8859-1?Q?Lyck=E5?=)
Date: Wed Jul 16 11:11:03 2003
Subject: [Tutor] Finding out if we can use a graphical environment
 or not
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <5.2.1.1.0.20030716171252.01f964f0@www.thinkware.se>

At 10:52 2003-07-16 -0300, Jorge Godoy wrote:
>How can I find out if my program is running unde X or Windows instead
>of a console / DOS prompt?

In X the typical approach is to check whether the DISPLAY
environment variable is set.

Will you ever run your programs on a Microsoft platform with
DOS prompt but no GUI available? What would that be? A toaster?

Personally, I'd use different scripts to start up the GUI and console
version of the application. Keep it simple.


--
Magnus Lycka (It's really Lyckå), magnus@thinkware.se
Thinkware AB, Sweden, www.thinkware.se
I code Python ~ The Agile Programming Language 



From godoy@metalab.unc.edu  Wed Jul 16 12:19:01 2003
From: godoy@metalab.unc.edu (Jorge Godoy)
Date: Wed Jul 16 11:19:01 2003
Subject: [Tutor] Finding out if we can use a graphical environment or
 not
In-Reply-To: <5.2.1.1.0.20030716171252.01f964f0@www.thinkware.se> (Magnus
 =?iso-8859-1?q?Lyck=E5's?= message of "Wed, 16 Jul 2003 17:16:56 +0200")
References: <5.2.1.1.0.20030716171252.01f964f0@www.thinkware.se>
Message-ID: 

Magnus Lyck=E5  writes:

> In X the typical approach is to check whether the DISPLAY
> environment variable is set.

OK. This is the second message that suggests that and it is less
expensive than the 'try' approach. It also solves the problem to me.=20

> Will you ever run your programs on a Microsoft platform with DOS
> prompt but no GUI available? What would that be? A toaster?

Actually, I dunno. Probably not.

> Personally, I'd use different scripts to start up the GUI and
> console version of the application. Keep it simple.

I've been doing that with other tools. I just wanted to know if I was
doing the right thing or the wrong thing... Everything is in separate
modules and the interface is a separate thing that can reuse the other
code, so this won't make me write more core (actually, I wouldn't
write the check for the X environment...).=20


Thanks,
--=20
Godoy.     


From lonetwin@yahoo.com  Wed Jul 16 12:49:02 2003
From: lonetwin@yahoo.com (lonetwin)
Date: Wed Jul 16 11:49:02 2003
Subject: [Tutor] Finding out if we can use a graphical environment or not
In-Reply-To: 
References: <5.2.1.1.0.20030716171252.01f964f0@www.thinkware.se> 
Message-ID: <200307162132.09622.lonetwin@yahoo.com>

Hi Jorge,

> > Personally, I'd use different scripts to start up the GUI and
> > console version of the application. Keep it simple.
>
> I've been doing that with other tools. I just wanted to know if I was
> doing the right thing or the wrong thing... Everything is in separate
> modules and the interface is a separate thing that can reuse the other
> code, so this won't make me write more core (actually, I wouldn't
> write the check for the X environment...).
    Actually it's a common practise (at least for installation/configuration 
utils) to have a "wrapper" script that checks the environment and then calls 
the appropriate interface script ....

ie:
if os.environ.get('DISPLAY', 'console') == 'console':
	call_console_app()
else:
	call_X_app()

 ...or the wrapper script can decide the interface depending on how the script 
was called :

ie:
if sys.argv[0] == 'proggy':
	call_console_app()
elif sys.argv[0] == 'Xproggy':
	call_X_app()

...and link 'proggy' and 'Xproggy'

   The advantage of this is, if the user is in X, the DISPLAY variable may be 
set, however if some necessary interface/X libs are not present, calling 
Xproggy might fail. So, then he can always call (or you can fall back to 
call) 'proggy' (of course you'd want to use isatty() and stuff like that)...

so on second thoughts, maybe keeping it simple is a good idea :). However, 
look and feel *does* matter.

HTH
Regards
Steve

-- 
The devil finds work for idle glands.


From jeff@ccvcorp.com  Wed Jul 16 14:20:02 2003
From: jeff@ccvcorp.com (Jeff Shannon)
Date: Wed Jul 16 13:20:02 2003
Subject: [Tutor] Finding out if we can use a graphical environment  or
 not
References: <5.2.1.1.0.20030716171252.01f964f0@www.thinkware.se>
Message-ID: <3F158935.7000707@ccvcorp.com>

Magnus Lycke wrote:

>
> Will you ever run your programs on a Microsoft platform with
> DOS prompt but no GUI available? What would that be? A toaster? 


While it's unlikely that a given MS platform will not have a GUI 
available, the user may have specific reasons for wanting to run 
something in console mode instead of GUI mode.

> Personally, I'd use different scripts to start up the GUI and console
> version of the application. Keep it simple.


This would be my preferred approach as well.  Write a GUI and a CLI 
version of the interface; both can wrap the same core libraries and 
business logic.  When installing, set the GUI menus and shortcuts to 
point to the GUI version, and put the CLI version somewhere that's easy 
to find (i.e. in a directory in $PATH, possibly modifying $PATH to 
arrange that) with a logical name.  This way, you're giving the user 
control over which version gets run, but in the 99% of the cases where 
the user doesn't care, it'll just do the right thing.  And you don't 
have to muck about with (possibly unreliable) code to try to guess the 
environment.

Jeff Shannon
Technician/Programmer
Credit International




From jeff@ccvcorp.com  Wed Jul 16 14:24:02 2003
From: jeff@ccvcorp.com (Jeff Shannon)
Date: Wed Jul 16 13:24:02 2003
Subject: [Tutor] OT: Admin suggestion: Add reply address to mailer
References: <3F155C41.7000800@icon.co.za>
Message-ID: <3F1589F5.2070703@ccvcorp.com>

Quentin wrote:

> All the lists I belong to have an auto reply address that will return 
> all replies back to the list, instead of to the original poster. Most 
> mailing list servers have this option. Is it possible for the Tutor 
> list to have it as well?
> If this was a pre decided decision not to have a reply address, I'll 
> stand by it, else (elif? :) ), how do the other members feel about it?


Magnus already mentioned that it's deliberate; there's an essay that 
describes *why* it's not preferable in quite a bit more detail --

http://www.unicom.com/pw/reply-to-harmful.html

Hope that this answers your questions.

Jeff Shannon
Technician/Programmer
Credit International





From alan.gauld@blueyonder.co.uk  Wed Jul 16 15:11:33 2003
From: alan.gauld@blueyonder.co.uk (Alan Gauld)
Date: Wed Jul 16 14:11:33 2003
Subject: [Tutor] Finding out if we can use a graphical environment or not
References:  <200307162027.27742.lonetwin@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <005901c34bc5$8d94b700$6401a8c0@xp>

> >>> if os.environ.get('DISPLAY', 1) == 1:
> ...    # we are in console
> ... else:
> ...    # we are in X
> 
> I'm sorry I dunno about windows/dos.

I guess post Windows Me you could just check the OS version 
as per earlier posts this month. But if you were running in 
a true DOS session then I dont know of any way to do it.

I guess you could maybe do a search for a process - Explorer 
probably. The winall package should include the APIs to list 
processes.

As to the try:/except: method somebody suggested, you wouldn't 
need to import everything, just enough to make a standard 
windows call(using winall again) to display an info box maybe?
The box could effectively act as a primitive splash screen...

Just some untested ideas...

Alan G.



From alan.gauld@blueyonder.co.uk  Wed Jul 16 15:14:01 2003
From: alan.gauld@blueyonder.co.uk (Alan Gauld)
Date: Wed Jul 16 14:14:01 2003
Subject: [Tutor] Finding out if we can use a graphical environment or not
References: <5.2.1.1.0.20030716171252.01f964f0@www.thinkware.se> 
Message-ID: <006001c34bc5$ed4b6e50$6401a8c0@xp>

> > In X the typical approach is to check whether the DISPLAY
> > environment variable is set.
>
> OK. This is the second message that suggests that and it is less
> expensive than the 'try' approach. It also solves the problem to me.

But its not foolproof. eg. I set DISPLAY in my .login/.profile file
but I only start X when I need to. So the env var can be set but
X not running. I'd check a 'ps' listing for a process called 'X'
to be safe.

Alan G.



From magnus@thinkware.se  Wed Jul 16 17:05:02 2003
From: magnus@thinkware.se (Magnus =?iso-8859-1?Q?Lyck=E5?=)
Date: Wed Jul 16 16:05:02 2003
Subject: [Tutor] Finding out if we can use a graphical environment
 or not
In-Reply-To: <3F158935.7000707@ccvcorp.com>
References: <5.2.1.1.0.20030716171252.01f964f0@www.thinkware.se>
Message-ID: <5.2.1.1.0.20030716220858.01fb03b0@www.thinkware.se>

At 10:19 2003-07-16 -0700, Jeff Shannon wrote:
>While it's unlikely that a given MS platform will not have a GUI 
>available, the user may have specific reasons for wanting to run something 
>in console mode instead of GUI mode.

For autodetection of this, please use the Python standard
mindreading module. ;)


--
Magnus Lycka (It's really Lyckå), magnus@thinkware.se
Thinkware AB, Sweden, www.thinkware.se
I code Python ~ The Agile Programming Language 



From python@kyle.sent.com  Wed Jul 16 18:34:02 2003
From: python@kyle.sent.com (Kyle Babich)
Date: Wed Jul 16 17:34:02 2003
Subject: [Tutor] 500 (hit counter)
Message-ID: <20030716213316.5F75973542@smtp.us2.messagingengine.com>

Pretty simple, it's a hit counter that gives me a 500...

###############################
print "Content-type: text/html\r\n\r\n"

import os
import stat
import string

def increment () :
    current = os.stat('/data.txt')[stat.ST_SIZE]
    ip = os.environ['REMOTE_ADDR']

    getHit = open('/ips.txt', 'r')
    hitIps = getHit.readlines()
    getHit.close()

    add = 1
    for each in hitIps:
        each = string.strip(each)
        if each == ip:
            add = 0
        else:
            pass

    if add == 1:
        addIp = open('/ips.txt', 'a')
        addIp.write("\n" . ip)
        addIp.close()
        
        current += 1
        addHit = open('/data.txt', 'a')
        addHit.write('k')
        addHit.close()

    return current

print increment()
###############################

It is chmod'd to 755 and I also have ips.txt and data.txt that are both
777.  Why the 500?  I checked the error logs and it says 'Premature end
of script headers', which seems to be a standard error, except I didn't
do anything different with these headers than I do with headers in any
other program I've written.
--
Kyle


From magnus@thinkware.se  Wed Jul 16 18:41:31 2003
From: magnus@thinkware.se (Magnus =?iso-8859-1?Q?Lyck=E5?=)
Date: Wed Jul 16 17:41:31 2003
Subject: [Tutor] Finding out if we can use a graphical environment
 or not
In-Reply-To: <006001c34bc5$ed4b6e50$6401a8c0@xp>
References: <5.2.1.1.0.20030716171252.01f964f0@www.thinkware.se>
 
Message-ID: <5.2.1.1.0.20030716221151.01faea98@www.thinkware.se>

At 19:13 2003-07-16 +0100, Alan Gauld wrote:
>But its not foolproof. eg. I set DISPLAY in my .login/.profile file
>but I only start X when I need to. So the env var can be set but
>X not running. I'd check a 'ps' listing for a process called 'X'

'X' would be the X server, right? That might not be running on the
same machine as the python script. (In the strange client/server
application X11, the server is the machine you sit by, and the
client is the (possibly remote) machine where your application is
running.)

In other words, it's only if DISPLAY indicates the local machine
that checking for a local process makes sense.

I'm not sure it's correct to have an environment set up to
indicate a certain DISPLAY if that doesn't exist. I think a lot
of Unix programs assume that DISPLAY actually indicates something
that exists.

It seems that the DISPLAY environment variable is a better
indication of a present X Windows display capability in Unix
that a certain process name...but I suppose we deviated a bit
from Python now...


--
Magnus Lycka (It's really Lyckå), magnus@thinkware.se
Thinkware AB, Sweden, www.thinkware.se
I code Python ~ The Agile Programming Language 



From alan.gauld@blueyonder.co.uk  Wed Jul 16 19:54:32 2003
From: alan.gauld@blueyonder.co.uk (Alan Gauld)
Date: Wed Jul 16 18:54:32 2003
Subject: [Tutor] Finding out if we can use a graphical environment  or not
References: <5.2.1.1.0.20030716171252.01f964f0@www.thinkware.se>  <5.2.1.1.0.20030716221151.01faea98@www.thinkware.se>
Message-ID: <007501c34bed$26e12ed0$6401a8c0@xp>

> 'X' would be the X server, right? That might not be running on the
> same machine as the python script. (In the strange client/server
> application X11, the server is the machine you sit by, and the
> client is the (possibly remote) machine where your application is
> running.)

Good point. In the normal mode where you run the apps locally it 
would work, but if you were usingyour machine as an Xterminal 
then the python script could be elsewhere.

> I'm not sure it's correct to have an environment set up to
> indicate a certain DISPLAY if that doesn't exist. I think a lot
> of Unix programs assume that DISPLAY actually indicates something
> that exists.

It hasn't caused me any problems in the last 13 years... but 
you could be right! It's just easier than setting DISPLAY 
everytime I start X.

And ironically the reason I can't do it in the startx script is 
because one other user shares the X-server on my Unix box.
(The DISPLAY env var is pointing at my PC...)

Hmm, thinking further, how would that work?

I run the X server on the PC(Thanks cygwin!) but set the 
DISPLAY on the Unix box where I run the applications. Now I
can run a telnet sssion to that box from the PC without having 
X running and DISPLAY is still set but no X Server exists on 
my PC. To be certain you would need to look at the machine ID 
in DISPLAY then do a remote ps(using ssh or rsh) to see if X 
is running on that machine.

This just gets more and more complicated...

Alan G.




From magnus@thinkware.se  Wed Jul 16 20:32:01 2003
From: magnus@thinkware.se (Magnus =?iso-8859-1?Q?Lyck=E5?=)
Date: Wed Jul 16 19:32:01 2003
Subject: [Tutor] 500 (hit counter)
In-Reply-To: <20030716213316.5F75973542@smtp.us2.messagingengine.com>
Message-ID: <5.2.1.1.0.20030717012956.01ff3cd8@www.thinkware.se>

What I see here is a Python script with no #! line in the
beginning. If you try to execute that as a CGI script, it
will run as a bourne shell script, yes? That's likely to
cause errors...

If you have a web server setup that manages to run this with
python despite the lack of proper #!, make sure that you
run Python unbuffered: "python -u".

I'd also try putting "import cgitb; cgitb.enable()" in the
beginning if Python was recent enough.

At 16:33 2003-07-16 -0500, Kyle Babich wrote:
>Pretty simple, it's a hit counter that gives me a 500...
>
>###############################
>print "Content-type: text/html\r\n\r\n"
>
>import os
>import stat
>import string
>
>def increment () :
>     current = os.stat('/data.txt')[stat.ST_SIZE]
>     ip = os.environ['REMOTE_ADDR']
>
>     getHit = open('/ips.txt', 'r')
>     hitIps = getHit.readlines()
>     getHit.close()
>
>     add = 1
>     for each in hitIps:
>         each = string.strip(each)
>         if each == ip:
>             add = 0
>         else:
>             pass
>
>     if add == 1:
>         addIp = open('/ips.txt', 'a')
>         addIp.write("\n" . ip)
>         addIp.close()
>
>         current += 1
>         addHit = open('/data.txt', 'a')
>         addHit.write('k')
>         addHit.close()
>
>     return current
>
>print increment()
>###############################
>
>It is chmod'd to 755 and I also have ips.txt and data.txt that are both
>777.  Why the 500?  I checked the error logs and it says 'Premature end
>of script headers', which seems to be a standard error, except I didn't
>do anything different with these headers than I do with headers in any
>other program I've written.
>--
>Kyle
>
>_______________________________________________
>Tutor maillist  -  Tutor@python.org
>http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor

--
Magnus Lycka (It's really Lyckå), magnus@thinkware.se
Thinkware AB, Sweden, www.thinkware.se
I code Python ~ The Agile Programming Language 



From python@kyle.sent.com  Wed Jul 16 20:53:02 2003
From: python@kyle.sent.com (Kyle Babich)
Date: Wed Jul 16 19:53:02 2003
Subject: [Tutor] 500 (hit counter)
In-Reply-To: <5.2.1.1.0.20030717012956.01ff3cd8@www.thinkware.se>
References: <5.2.1.1.0.20030717012956.01ff3cd8@www.thinkware.se>
Message-ID: <20030716235235.6D3B8719F1@smtp.us2.messagingengine.com>

On Thu, 17 Jul 2003 01:36:57 +0200, "Magnus Lyck=E5" 
said:
> What I see here is a Python script with no #! line in the
> beginning. If you try to execute that as a CGI script, it
> will run as a bourne shell script, yes? That's likely to
> cause errors...

It's there, I just didn't copy and paste that part (by accident).

>=20
> If you have a web server setup that manages to run this with
> python despite the lack of proper #!, make sure that you
> run Python unbuffered: "python -u".
>=20
> I'd also try putting "import cgitb; cgitb.enable()" in the
> beginning if Python was recent enough.

I'll try this.  I know for a fact that my admin is running an older
version of python.  It still uses open() instead of file().

>=20
> At 16:33 2003-07-16 -0500, Kyle Babich wrote:
> >Pretty simple, it's a hit counter that gives me a 500...
> >
> >###############################
> >print "Content-type: text/html\r\n\r\n"
> >
> >import os
> >import stat
> >import string
> >
> >def increment () :
> >     current =3D os.stat('/data.txt')[stat.ST_SIZE]
> >     ip =3D os.environ['REMOTE_ADDR']
> >
> >     getHit =3D open('/ips.txt', 'r')
> >     hitIps =3D getHit.readlines()
> >     getHit.close()
> >
> >     add =3D 1
> >     for each in hitIps:
> >         each =3D string.strip(each)
> >         if each =3D=3D ip:
> >             add =3D 0
> >         else:
> >             pass
> >
> >     if add =3D=3D 1:
> >         addIp =3D open('/ips.txt', 'a')
> >         addIp.write("\n" . ip)
> >         addIp.close()
> >
> >         current +=3D 1
> >         addHit =3D open('/data.txt', 'a')
> >         addHit.write('k')
> >         addHit.close()
> >
> >     return current
> >
> >print increment()
> >###############################
> >
> >It is chmod'd to 755 and I also have ips.txt and data.txt that are both
> >777.  Why the 500?  I checked the error logs and it says 'Premature end
> >of script headers', which seems to be a standard error, except I didn't
> >do anything different with these headers than I do with headers in any
> >other program I've written.
> >--
> >Kyle
> >
> >_______________________________________________
> >Tutor maillist  -  Tutor@python.org
> >http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor
>=20
> --
> Magnus Lycka (It's really Lyckå), magnus@thinkware.se
> Thinkware AB, Sweden, www.thinkware.se
> I code Python ~ The Agile Programming Language=20
>=20
>=20
--
Kyle


From himself@lafferty.de  Wed Jul 16 21:16:03 2003
From: himself@lafferty.de (himself@lafferty.de)
Date: Wed Jul 16 20:16:03 2003
Subject: [Tutor] Finding out if we can use a graphical environment or not
Message-ID: <20030717001936.142A3898C@carbon.pub.snx.de>

> Personally, I'd use different scripts to start up the GUI and
> console version of the application. Keep it simple.

Well it depends on your GUI but maybe you'd like to have a look at the anygui project (http://angui.sf.net). It does all the checking for availiable GUI Toolkits (or none) and wrapping for you. If only a console is availiable it uses a curses interface (which is quite ok IMO).

Well theres one HUGE drawback... it's not final yet. But maybe it solves your problems or you could design your wrapper after having looked at anygui's code.

Greetings, Laff





From idiot1@netzero.net  Wed Jul 16 23:30:01 2003
From: idiot1@netzero.net (Kirk Bailey)
Date: Wed Jul 16 22:30:01 2003
Subject: [Tutor] OT: Admin suggestion: Add reply address to mailer
References: <3F155C41.7000800@icon.co.za>
Message-ID: <3F15C487.7060706@netzero.net>

actually, aI beleive that mailman does indeed offer this option, if the postmaster 
desires it; you will have to talk to the listdaddy about this, and beats me who that is.


Quentin wrote:
> All the lists I belong to have an auto reply address that will return 
> all replies back to the list, instead of to the original poster. Most 
> mailing list servers have this option. Is it possible for the Tutor list 
> to have it as well?
> If this was a pre decided decision not to have a reply address, I'll 
> stand by it, else (elif? :) ), how do the other members feel about it?
> 
> Quentin
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Tutor maillist  -  Tutor@python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor
> 
> 


-- 

end

Cheers!
         Kirk D Bailey

  +                              think                                +
   http://www.howlermonkey.net  +-----+        http://www.tinylist.org
   http://www.listville.net     | BOX |  http://www.sacredelectron.org
   Thou art free"-ERIS          +-----+     'Got a light?'-Promethieus
  +                              think                                +

Fnord.




From idiot1@netzero.net  Wed Jul 16 23:30:10 2003
From: idiot1@netzero.net (Kirk Bailey)
Date: Wed Jul 16 22:30:10 2003
Subject: [Tutor] OT: Admin suggestion: Add reply address to mailer
References: <5.2.1.1.0.20030716170201.01f34940@www.thinkware.se>
Message-ID: <3F15C560.7050902@netzero.net>

This is not the first time I have onsidered such issues. It would be good if you could 
click one button to reply to the sender, and another to reply to the list. Alas, 
clicking REPLY ALL sends back to BOTH on netscape. Not sure  how it works in the world 
of microsoft, as I believe it is a moral weakness to support evil institutions, but my 
impression is this is normal behavior in most email clients. Can anyone figure out a way 
to get tricky with headers to force one or the other, but not BOTH?



Magnus Lyckå wrote:
> At 16:08 2003-07-16 +0200, Quentin wrote:
> 
>> All the lists I belong to have an auto reply address that will return 
>> all replies back to the list, instead of to the original poster. Most 
>> mailing list servers have this option. Is it possible for the Tutor 
>> list to have it as well?
> 
> 
> We've been through this, it's somewhere in the archives.
> The simple answer is that with most email clients, it's
> easy to answer either to the list of to the sender if
> it's set up as it is now.
> 
> Just 'reply' will reply to the sender, and 'reply to all'
> will also reply to the list.
> 
> With 'reply-to' header set to the list, it requires some
> manual labour to reply to the sender with most email clients.
> 
> It's always good to prune the headers of an email manually,
> just as you should prune the rest of the mail, for instance
> removing uneeded quotes of previous mails.
> 
> Also, if you have the 'reply-to' set to the mailing list, and
> just use 'reply' in your email client, the attribution for
> quotes will typically say "you wrote" instead of for instance
> "Quentin wrote".
> 
> I guess the best thing would be if every subscriber could set
> up what they want 'reply-to' set to. Perhaps that is a reasonable
> feature request for Mailman? Or can it be configured like that?
> 
> 
> -- 
> Magnus Lycka (It's really Lyckå), magnus@thinkware.se
> Thinkware AB, Sweden, www.thinkware.se
> I code Python ~ The Agile Programming Language
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Tutor maillist  -  Tutor@python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor
> 
> 


-- 

end

Cheers!
         Kirk D Bailey

  +                              think                                +
   http://www.howlermonkey.net  +-----+        http://www.tinylist.org
   http://www.listville.net     | BOX |  http://www.sacredelectron.org
   Thou art free"-ERIS          +-----+     'Got a light?'-Promethieus
  +                              think                                +

Fnord.




From idiot1@netzero.net  Wed Jul 16 23:30:25 2003
From: idiot1@netzero.net (Kirk Bailey)
Date: Wed Jul 16 22:30:25 2003
Subject: [Tutor] OT: Admin suggestion: Add reply address to mailer
References: <5.2.1.1.0.20030716170201.01f34940@www.thinkware.se>
Message-ID: <3F15C560.7050902@netzero.net>

This is not the first time I have onsidered such issues. It would be good if you could 
click one button to reply to the sender, and another to reply to the list. Alas, 
clicking REPLY ALL sends back to BOTH on netscape. Not sure  how it works in the world 
of microsoft, as I believe it is a moral weakness to support evil institutions, but my 
impression is this is normal behavior in most email clients. Can anyone figure out a way 
to get tricky with headers to force one or the other, but not BOTH?



Magnus Lyckå wrote:
> At 16:08 2003-07-16 +0200, Quentin wrote:
> 
>> All the lists I belong to have an auto reply address that will return 
>> all replies back to the list, instead of to the original poster. Most 
>> mailing list servers have this option. Is it possible for the Tutor 
>> list to have it as well?
> 
> 
> We've been through this, it's somewhere in the archives.
> The simple answer is that with most email clients, it's
> easy to answer either to the list of to the sender if
> it's set up as it is now.
> 
> Just 'reply' will reply to the sender, and 'reply to all'
> will also reply to the list.
> 
> With 'reply-to' header set to the list, it requires some
> manual labour to reply to the sender with most email clients.
> 
> It's always good to prune the headers of an email manually,
> just as you should prune the rest of the mail, for instance
> removing uneeded quotes of previous mails.
> 
> Also, if you have the 'reply-to' set to the mailing list, and
> just use 'reply' in your email client, the attribution for
> quotes will typically say "you wrote" instead of for instance
> "Quentin wrote".
> 
> I guess the best thing would be if every subscriber could set
> up what they want 'reply-to' set to. Perhaps that is a reasonable
> feature request for Mailman? Or can it be configured like that?
> 
> 
> -- 
> Magnus Lycka (It's really Lyckå), magnus@thinkware.se
> Thinkware AB, Sweden, www.thinkware.se
> I code Python ~ The Agile Programming Language
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Tutor maillist  -  Tutor@python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor
> 
> 


-- 

end

Cheers!
         Kirk D Bailey

  +                              think                                +
   http://www.howlermonkey.net  +-----+        http://www.tinylist.org
   http://www.listville.net     | BOX |  http://www.sacredelectron.org
   Thou art free"-ERIS          +-----+     'Got a light?'-Promethieus
  +                              think                                +

Fnord.




From klappnase@freenet.de  Thu Jul 17 08:07:01 2003
From: klappnase@freenet.de (klappnase)
Date: Thu Jul 17 07:07:01 2003
Subject: [Tutor] Problem recording large wav files with Snack
Message-ID: <20030717130738.4f09e98d.klappnase@freenet.de>

Hello,
I am trying to develop some little sound applications for linux using the snack toolkit.
(I am far from being a "professional" programmer, but just a beginner).
I want to record large files to disk (whole sides of vinyl albums), so I do something like:

s = tkSnack.Sound(encoding="Lin16", frequency=44100, channels=2, fileformat="WAV", byteorder="littleEndian,\
			precision="double", file="xyz.wav")
s.record()

Now I have this strange problem that every time a screensaver starts (or other programs are launched)
I get a loss of audio data, so that for example ten seconds of sound in the middle of the file are
completely missing.
I think that I should add some buffering for the recording, but the "buffersize" option does not seem to
have any effect on this.
If you have an idea what I could do about this I would be very thankful for any hints.

Best regards

Michael



From shalehperry@comcast.net  Thu Jul 17 10:51:36 2003
From: shalehperry@comcast.net (Sean 'Shaleh' Perry)
Date: Thu Jul 17 09:51:36 2003
Subject: [Tutor] OT: Admin suggestion: Add reply address to mailer
In-Reply-To: <3F15C560.7050902@netzero.net>
References: <5.2.1.1.0.20030716170201.01f34940@www.thinkware.se> <3F15C560.7050902@netzero.net>
Message-ID: <200307170649.37312.shalehperry@comcast.net>

On Wednesday 16 July 2003 14:36, Kirk Bailey wrote:
> This is not the first time I have onsidered such issues. It would be good
> if you could click one button to reply to the sender, and another to reply
> to the list. Alas, clicking REPLY ALL sends back to BOTH on netscape. Not
> sure  how it works in the world of microsoft, as I believe it is a moral
> weakness to support evil institutions, but my impression is this is normal
> behavior in most email clients. Can anyone figure out a way to get tricky
> with headers to force one or the other, but not BOTH?
>

The problem is a cultural one.

Unix clients EXPECT you to be part of mailing lists, Windows clients think you 
are mailing your boss or your mother and a "reply to list" would just confuse 
you.

This is definately something I have been struggling with over the last 3 weeks 
at work.  Just transitioned over to IT so I spend part of my day staring at 
Windows.

Still, you just learn to edit the outbound list.



From john@rte.ie  Thu Jul 17 11:04:02 2003
From: john@rte.ie (John Moylan)
Date: Thu Jul 17 10:04:02 2003
Subject: [Tutor] trying to get md5sums of a list of files
In-Reply-To: <20030716073420.9815.40576.Mailman@mail.python.org>
References: <20030716073420.9815.40576.Mailman@mail.python.org>
Message-ID: <1058450631.11743.1590.camel@localhost.localdomain>

Hi,

I have a list of the 1.5million filename with paths, on my NAS. 
I am going to compute md5sums for each file and sort them; check for duplicate files.
This is relatively easy in bash:
for i in `cat filelist` do; md5sum $i; done

However, as an educational exercise, I want to do this in Python.

So I coded up the following:

#!/usr/local/bin/python

import os, sys, md5

for path in open('filelist2'):
        myline = path.strip()
        f = open(myline, 'r')
        m = md5.new()
        for line in f.readlines():
                m.update(line)
        f.close()
        md5sum = m.digest()
        print m

However, the output does not make sense, where have I gone wrong?

Thanks in Advance,
John 


******************************************************************************
The information in this e-mail is confidential and may be legally privileged.
It is intended solely for the addressee. Access to this e-mail by anyone else
is unauthorised. If you are not the intended recipient, any disclosure,
copying, distribution, or any action taken or omitted to be taken in reliance
on it, is prohibited and may be unlawful.
Please note that emails to, from and within RTÉ may be subject to the Freedom
of Information Act 1997 and may be liable to disclosure.
******************************************************************************


From shalehperry@comcast.net  Thu Jul 17 11:21:02 2003
From: shalehperry@comcast.net (Sean 'Shaleh' Perry)
Date: Thu Jul 17 10:21:02 2003
Subject: [Tutor] trying to get md5sums of a list of files
In-Reply-To: <1058450631.11743.1590.camel@localhost.localdomain>
References: <20030716073420.9815.40576.Mailman@mail.python.org> <1058450631.11743.1590.camel@localhost.localdomain>
Message-ID: <200307170719.35822.shalehperry@comcast.net>

> So I coded up the following:
>
> #!/usr/local/bin/python
>
> import os, sys, md5
>
> for path in open('filelist2'):
>         myline = path.strip()
>         f = open(myline, 'r')
>         m = md5.new()
>         for line in f.readlines():
>                 m.update(line)
>         f.close()
>         md5sum = m.digest()
>         print m
>
> However, the output does not make sense, where have I gone wrong?
>

you failed you read the docs fully (-:

`digest()'
     Return the digest of the strings passed to the `update()' method
     so far.  This is a 16-byte string which may contain non-ASCII
     characters, including null bytes.

`hexdigest()'
     Like `digest()' except the digest is returned as a string of
     length 32, containing only hexadecimal digits.  This may be used
     to exchange the value safely in email or other non-binary
     environments.

>>> import md5
>>> md5.new("Nobody inspects the spammish repetition").digest()
'\xbbd\x9c\x83\xdd\x1e\xa5\xc9\xd9\xde\xc9\xa1\x8d\xf0\xff\xe9'
>>> md5.new("Nobody inspects the spammish repetition").hexdigest()
'bb649c83dd1ea5c9d9dec9a18df0ffe9'



From cybersamurai@mac.com  Thu Jul 17 12:13:32 2003
From: cybersamurai@mac.com (Luiz Siqueira Neto)
Date: Thu Jul 17 11:13:32 2003
Subject: [Tutor] u'=' ????? What is it?
Message-ID: <200307171213.41311.cybersamurai@mac.com>

What 
----
u'=' 
----
mean??

Ex:

args = [u'='.join(k,safe_eval(v) for k, v in attrs.items()]


From kalle@lysator.liu.se  Thu Jul 17 12:20:02 2003
From: kalle@lysator.liu.se (Kalle Svensson)
Date: Thu Jul 17 11:20:02 2003
Subject: [Tutor] u'=' ????? What is it?
In-Reply-To: <200307171213.41311.cybersamurai@mac.com>
References: <200307171213.41311.cybersamurai@mac.com>
Message-ID: <20030717151927.GC19374@i92.ryd.student.liu.se>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

[Luiz Siqueira Neto]
> What 
> u'=' 
> mean??

u'=' is the Unicode literal string '='.

Peace,
  Kalle
- -- 
Kalle Svensson, http://www.juckapan.org/~kalle/
Student, root and saint in the Church of Emacs.
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.0.7 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: Processed by Mailcrypt 3.5.6 

iD8DBQE/Fr52dNeA1787sd0RAnE1AKDBDBcEhzXiFZn03xHmPcupjziJZwCgsn51
/lqXv1xqGRSk1FoXn9ZdCdc=
=o+hF
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----


From lsloan@umich.edu  Thu Jul 17 12:23:06 2003
From: lsloan@umich.edu (Lance E Sloan)
Date: Thu Jul 17 11:23:06 2003
Subject: [Tutor] Finding out if we can use a graphical environment or
 not
In-Reply-To: 
References: <5.2.1.1.0.20030716171252.01f964f0@www.thinkware.se>
 
Message-ID: <4107063.1058435984@141-213-238-90.umnet.umich.edu>

--On Wednesday, July 16, 2003 12:18 -0300 Jorge Godoy 
 wrote:
>> Will you ever run your programs on a Microsoft platform with DOS
>> prompt but no GUI available? What would that be? A toaster?
>
> Actually, I dunno. Probably not.

Toasters wouldn't run DOS anyway.  Maybe Java, though.  ;)

Seriously, though, the non-GUI version of the program could be run from 
DOS, though unlikely, or from a UNIX or Linux shell.  So I think this is a 
good question.

However, I think the suggestions others have made for running the program 
under different names ("proggy" and "Xproggy") make a lot of sense.  It's 
possible that I'll run your program from an xterm window and although my 
"DISPLAY" environment variable is set and I do have X running, maybe I 
don't want to run the GUI version.

--
Lance E Sloan
U-M WATS: Web Applications, Technologies, and Solutions
Full-service web and database design, development, and hosting.
http://websvcs.itd.umich.edu/ - "Putting U on the Web"



From john@rte.ie  Thu Jul 17 13:09:02 2003
From: john@rte.ie (John Moylan)
Date: Thu Jul 17 12:09:02 2003
Subject: [Tutor] re: Problem recording large wav files with Snack
In-Reply-To: <20030717160005.30133.44599.Mailman@mail.python.org>
References: <20030717160005.30133.44599.Mailman@mail.python.org>
Message-ID: <1058458081.11743.1702.camel@localhost.localdomain>

This happens with most audio encoders. Encoding is a CPU intensive process. 
We encode real player content here all the time. Screen savers have to be disabled on 
encoding boxes because they can be too CPU hungry.

JOhn


******************************************************************************
The information in this e-mail is confidential and may be legally privileged.
It is intended solely for the addressee. Access to this e-mail by anyone else
is unauthorised. If you are not the intended recipient, any disclosure,
copying, distribution, or any action taken or omitted to be taken in reliance
on it, is prohibited and may be unlawful.
Please note that emails to, from and within RTÉ may be subject to the Freedom
of Information Act 1997 and may be liable to disclosure.
******************************************************************************


From andi@buxach.de  Thu Jul 17 13:48:12 2003
From: andi@buxach.de (Andreas Zwinkau)
Date: Thu Jul 17 12:48:12 2003
Subject: [Tutor] sound volume
Message-ID: <20030630121046.71b07643.andi@buxach.de>

Hi

i am working on a jukebox daemon currently (like cymbaline, julie, ...)

Now i use pyogg and pymad with pyao for playback, now i'd like to modify
the sound stream, especially the sound volume, because i don't want to
use the oss-mixer. It should fade the songs into each other, so i must
change the volume differently on different streams.

Is there a library/module? So i could easily build it between pymad and
pyao ?

mfg
Andreas Zwinkau
 | web: andi.dasstellenwirinsinternet.de
 | mail: andi@buxach.de
 | jabber: beza1e1@amessage.de


From magnus@thinkware.se  Thu Jul 17 13:58:02 2003
From: magnus@thinkware.se (Magnus =?iso-8859-1?Q?Lyck=E5?=)
Date: Thu Jul 17 12:58:02 2003
Subject: [Tutor] trying to get md5sums of a list of files
In-Reply-To: <1058450631.11743.1590.camel@localhost.localdomain>
References: <20030716073420.9815.40576.Mailman@mail.python.org>
 <20030716073420.9815.40576.Mailman@mail.python.org>
Message-ID: <5.2.1.1.0.20030717185008.020a8970@www.thinkware.se>

At 15:03 2003-07-17 +0100, John Moylan wrote:
>         md5sum = m.digest()
>         print m
>
>However, the output does not make sense, where have I gone wrong?

You have printed the md5 object instead of the digest. You assign
the digest to the variable md5sum, and then you never use that...

Simply do "print md5sum" instead of "print m"

Note that the value returned by .digest() is a *binary* string
though, you probably want a string of hex values:

md5sum = m.hexdigest()
print md5sum


--
Magnus Lycka (It's really Lyckå), magnus@thinkware.se
Thinkware AB, Sweden, www.thinkware.se
I code Python ~ The Agile Programming Language 



From jeff@ccvcorp.com  Thu Jul 17 14:05:02 2003
From: jeff@ccvcorp.com (Jeff Shannon)
Date: Thu Jul 17 13:05:02 2003
Subject: [Tutor] OT: Admin suggestion: Add reply address to mailer
References: <5.2.1.1.0.20030716170201.01f34940@www.thinkware.se> <3F15C560.7050902@netzero.net>
Message-ID: <3F16D731.6030000@ccvcorp.com>

Kirk Bailey wrote:

> This is not the first time I have onsidered such issues. It would be 
> good if you could click one button to reply to the sender, and another 
> to reply to the list. Alas, clicking REPLY ALL sends back to BOTH on 
> netscape. Not sure  how it works in the world of microsoft, as I 
> believe it is a moral weakness to support evil institutions, but my 
> impression is this is normal behavior in most email clients. Can 
> anyone figure out a way to get tricky with headers to force one or the 
> other, but not BOTH?


Yes, 'reply all' sends back to both parties, with pretty much any 
mailer.  (That's why it's 'reply ALL'.)  It is, however, fairly simple 
to delete undesired addresses from the email before it's sent -- 
especially since you're trimming the quoted email body anyhow.  (You 
*are* trimming the email to only the most relevant quoted sections, 
right??)  Deleting unwanted addresses is a *lot* easier than adding 
additional addresses.  And it's rarely a problem for the email to go to 
an extra (private) address, anyhow.

I certainly wouldn't mind if standard mailers grew a third 'reply to 
list' option, but given that the standard options are only 'reply to 
sender' and 'reply to all', I'm perfectly happy with manually trimming 
the reply list.  This seems like much less of a problem than the 
weirdnesses that would likely be caused by getting "tricky with headers" 
-- as the link I posted mentions, header munging often leads to 
unpredictable results, and the less it's done the better.

Jeff Shannon
Technician/Programmer
Credit International




From mwagman@charter.net  Thu Jul 17 14:35:02 2003
From: mwagman@charter.net (Mike Wagman)
Date: Thu Jul 17 13:35:02 2003
Subject: [Tutor] Locking files on windows
Message-ID: <1058463291.2461.3.camel@24-159-241-21.jvl.wi.charter.com>

I need to lock files under windows using python.

I've run into references to portalocker but can't find it.

So can someone point me to it, and let me know if that is the best way
to lock files. There is a chance that this will get run under linux so
if there is a multiplatform locker that would be ideal (if portalocker
is not one).

Other wise locking files under window. I have looked as msvcrt and could
use an example of how to use that in a practical application. 



From dyoo@hkn.eecs.berkeley.edu  Thu Jul 17 14:47:01 2003
From: dyoo@hkn.eecs.berkeley.edu (Danny Yoo)
Date: Thu Jul 17 13:47:01 2003
Subject: [Tutor] OT: Admin suggestion: Add reply address to mailer
In-Reply-To: <3F16D731.6030000@ccvcorp.com>
Message-ID: 


On Thu, 17 Jul 2003, Jeff Shannon wrote:

> Kirk Bailey wrote:
>
> > This is not the first time I have onsidered such issues. It would be
> > good if you could click one button to reply to the sender, and another
> > to reply to the list. Alas, clicking REPLY ALL sends back to BOTH on
> > netscape.
>
> Yes, 'reply all' sends back to both parties, with pretty much any
> mailer.  (That's why it's 'reply ALL'.)


Hi everyone,


And in most cases, doing Reply to All is the right thing to do, especially
on mailing lists that support Digest mode.  There are some people who have
turned off "list delivery" on their mailman settings, or in a less extreme
case, are running in digest mode.


Hypothetical situation: if you're in digest mode, and you ask a question
on the Tutor list, do you want to wait for the next digest to see if
someone has responded to your question?


This is not actually such an uncommon situation: the majority of
subscribers to Python-Tutor are on Digest mode!  These folks may still
like to occasionally post and get direct responses to their questions.
Trimming the reply-to list to only the list, though, cuts them off and
prevents them from getting timely answers.



Anyway, let's get back to talking about Python.  *grin*



From dyoo@hkn.eecs.berkeley.edu  Thu Jul 17 15:17:20 2003
From: dyoo@hkn.eecs.berkeley.edu (Danny Yoo)
Date: Thu Jul 17 14:17:20 2003
Subject: [Tutor] trying to get md5sums of a list of files
In-Reply-To: <200307170719.35822.shalehperry@comcast.net>
Message-ID: 


On Thu, 17 Jul 2003, Sean 'Shaleh' Perry wrote:

> > So I coded up the following:
> >
> > #!/usr/local/bin/python
> >
> > import os, sys, md5
> >
> > for path in open('filelist2'):
> >         myline = path.strip()
> >         f = open(myline, 'r')
> >         m = md5.new()
> >         for line in f.readlines():
> >                 m.update(line)
> >         f.close()
> >         md5sum = m.digest()
> >         print m


Hi everyone,


One other potential bug: readlines() sucks in the whole file into memory
at once, and treats it as a text file.  For large files, this may impact
memory, so a safer approach is to use a "chunked" read():

###
def md5file(f):
    """Returns an md5sum hex string of a file."""
    m = md5.new()
    while 1:
        bytes = f.read(1024)
        if not bytes: break
        m.update(bytes)
    return m.hexdigest()
###


I read a kilobyte arbitrary: dunno why, I guess it's a nice round number.
*grin* The important thing is to avoid reading the whole file at once, but
to do it progressively.  md5's update() method is designed to be called
many times precisely because it works on chunks at a time.  With this
md5file() approach, we can now deal with files of any size without running
into a memory problem.



Once we code up this md5file() utility function, John's original question:

"""
I am going to compute md5sums for each file and sort them; check for
duplicate files.
This is relatively easy in bash:
for i in `cat filelist` do; md5sum $i; done
"""


has a cute translation in Python:

###
for f in open('filelist'):
    print md5file(open(f, "rb"))        ## Question: why "rb"?
###



There's one other subtle point that deals with the inner file-open()ing
loop.  In particular, the "b"  "binary" open() part in the loop is
important.  If we want to make sure we're getting the same results as our
shell's "md5sum" utility, we must not treat newlines as special
characters, since they too contribute to the md5 sum.  Opening a file in
binary mode will make sure newlines are treated such as any other byte in
our file.


Hope this helps!



From mwagman@charter.net  Thu Jul 17 15:27:52 2003
From: mwagman@charter.net (Mike Wagman)
Date: Thu Jul 17 14:27:52 2003
Subject: [Tutor] Locking files on windows
In-Reply-To: <1058463291.2461.3.camel@24-159-241-21.jvl.wi.charter.com>
References: <1058463291.2461.3.camel@24-159-241-21.jvl.wi.charter.com>
Message-ID: <1058466271.4688.0.camel@24-159-241-21.jvl.wi.charter.com>

found portalocker - Now to see if it does what I need.

On Thu, 2003-07-17 at 12:34, Mike Wagman wrote:
> I need to lock files under windows using python.
> 
> I've run into references to portalocker but can't find it.
> 
> So can someone point me to it, and let me know if that is the best way
> to lock files. There is a chance that this will get run under linux so
> if there is a multiplatform locker that would be ideal (if portalocker
> is not one).
> 
> Other wise locking files under window. I have looked as msvcrt and could
> use an example of how to use that in a practical application. 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Tutor maillist  -  Tutor@python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor



From mwagman@charter.net  Thu Jul 17 15:41:01 2003
From: mwagman@charter.net (Mike Wagman)
Date: Thu Jul 17 14:41:01 2003
Subject: [Tutor] Portalocker
Message-ID: <1058467236.4694.2.camel@24-159-241-21.jvl.wi.charter.com>

Does not seem to be working.

Can anyone send me a piece of code that will open a file, and when that
file is open - I can't open it from another python program.



From Sk8erguy2424@aol.com  Thu Jul 17 16:03:04 2003
From: Sk8erguy2424@aol.com (Sk8erguy2424@aol.com)
Date: Thu Jul 17 15:03:04 2003
Subject: [Tutor] Portalocker
Message-ID: <90.3a0bc6c5.2c484ccb@aol.com>

--part1_90.3a0bc6c5.2c484ccb_boundary
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Following the synopsis code, I ran into this problem:

>>> import portalocker
>>> file=open("C:\My Documents\log.txt", "r+")
>>> portalocker.lock(file, portalocker.LOCK_EX)
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "", line 1, in ?
    portalocker.lock(file, portalocker.LOCK_EX)
AttributeError: 'module' object has no attribute 'lock'

I rechecked to see if I installed the module correctly and I did.  Anyone 
know why this is happening?  Thanks in advance.

--part1_90.3a0bc6c5.2c484ccb_boundary
Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Following the synopsis code, I ran into this problem=
:



>>> import portalocker

>>> file=3Dopen("C:\My Documents\log.txt", "r+")

>>> portalocker.lock(file, portalocker.LOCK_EX)

Traceback (most recent call last):

  File "<pyshell#13>", line 1, in ?

    portalocker.lock(file, portalocker.LOCK_EX)

AttributeError: 'module' object has no attribute 'lock'



I rechecked to see if I installed the module correctly and I did.  =
Anyone know why this is happening?  Thanks in advance.

--part1_90.3a0bc6c5.2c484ccb_boundary--


From jdjames87@sbcglobal.net  Thu Jul 17 18:27:01 2003
From: jdjames87@sbcglobal.net (Jordan James)
Date: Thu Jul 17 17:27:01 2003
Subject: [Tutor] lots of Python errors
Message-ID: <002e01c34be3$c907d920$0500a8c0@sbcglobal.net>

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

------=_NextPart_000_0027_01C34BA9.18E4A620
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

I don't know why, but I seem to get a lot of errors running Python.  How =
I came to use Python was through Blender, a freeware 3D package (that =
uses Python) that you've probably heard of.  At first, I found that only =
a few of the scripts that I downloaded for use in Blender worked, so I =
thought it was a problem with Blender.  So I got the actual python =
command line and GUI.  I still had lots of errors running scripts by =
other people.  For example,  "os.system".   When I say

os.system("start notepad")

,it says=20

Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "C:/Program Files/Python/launch.py", line 1, in ?
    os.system("start notepad")
NameError: name 'os' is not defined

I'm pretty sure this isn't normal, because I read all of the tutor pages =
by other people, and these things work for them.  I am running Python =
2.3; is this possibly a really old version?  Is there some major step =
I'm not doing?  I'm running Windows 98, does Python have problems with =
Windows?  Are there any other factors I need to consider?

I know my problem is pretty broad, but if anyone knows what is going on, =
I would appreciate it if you told me.

Thanks.

Jordan
------=_NextPart_000_0027_01C34BA9.18E4A620
Content-Type: text/html;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable













I don't know why, but I seem to get a =
lot of errors=20
running Python.  How I came to use Python was through Blender, =
a=20
freeware 3D package (that uses Python) that you've probably heard =
of. =20
At first, I found that only a few of the scripts that I downloaded for =
use in=20
Blender worked, so I thought it was a problem with =
Blender.  So I got=20
the actual python command line and GUI.  I still had lots of errors =
running=20
scripts by other people.  For example, =
 "os.system".   When=20
I say


 


os.system("start notepad")


 


,it says 


 


Traceback (most recent call =
last):
  File=20
"C:/Program Files/Python/launch.py", line 1, in ?
   =20
os.system("start notepad")
NameError: name 'os' is not =
defined


 


I'm pretty sure this isn't normal, =
because I read=20
all of the tutor pages by other people, and these things work =
for=20
them.  I am running Python 2.3; is this possibly a really old=20
version?  Is there some major step I'm not doing?  I'm running =
Windows=20
98, does Python have problems with Windows?  Are there any other =
factors I=20
need to consider?


 


I know my problem is pretty broad, but =
if anyone=20
knows what is going on, I would appreciate it if you told =
me.


 


Thanks.


 


Jordan


------=_NextPart_000_0027_01C34BA9.18E4A620--



From alex@caustic-creations.com  Thu Jul 17 18:27:12 2003
From: alex@caustic-creations.com (Alex from Caustic Creations)
Date: Thu Jul 17 17:27:12 2003
Subject: [Tutor] curses.wrapper() question
Message-ID: <1058424268.942.9.camel@caustic.laptop>

Hello,

I'm trying to learn python because I would like to create a simple cash
register application using curses. I read the curses howto and the
reference manual and both refer to the curses.wrapper function. The
advantages of using the wrapper are significant, yet I can't seem to
call it up properly.

I've included my "test.py" program - a compilation of all of the
statements in the curses howto so I could see and play around with their
effects. If anyone can find the time, could someone alter this little
demo program using the curses wrapper to illustrate its correct use?

Thanks so much in advance,

Alex


#### Begin Code

#!/usr/bin/python
#
# Alex's first attemopts at writing a curses interface using python

import curses
stdscr = curses.initscr()
curses.start_color()

curses.noecho()
curses.cbreak()
stdscr.keypad(1)

def newWindow():
	begin_x = 20 ; begin_y = 7
	height = 5 ; width = 40
	win = curses.newwin(height, width, begin_y, begin_x)
	return

stdscr.refresh()
newWindow()

# Windows and Pad test

pad = curses.newpad(100,100)

for y in range(0,100):
	for x in range(0,100):
		try: pad.addch(y,x, ord('a') + (x*x+y*y) % 26)
		except curses.error: pass

pad.refresh(0,0, 5,5, 20,75)

# Display "Current Mode" line att he top of the screen

stdscr.addstr(0, 0, "Current mode: Typing mode",
	      curses.A_BOLD)
stdscr.refresh()

# Coloured text test

stdscr.refresh()
curses.init_pair(1, curses.COLOR_GREEN, curses.COLOR_BLACK)
stdscr.addstr( 0,80, "Pretty text", curses.color_pair(1) )
stdscr.refresh()

# Keyboard input test

while 1:
	c = stdscr.getch()
	if c == ord('p'): stdscr.addstr( 2,60, "You typed the letter p",
curses.color_pair(1) )
	elif c == ord('q'): break
	elif c == curses.KEY_HOME: x=y=0

# Ending curses politely

curses.nocbreak(); stdscr.keypad(0); curses.echo()
curses.endwin()

#### End Code



From exnihilo@myrealbox.com  Thu Jul 17 18:47:39 2003
From: exnihilo@myrealbox.com (calvin)
Date: Thu Jul 17 17:47:39 2003
Subject: [Tutor] lots of Python errors
References: <002e01c34be3$c907d920$0500a8c0@sbcglobal.net>
Message-ID: <3F171834.9020307@myrealbox.com>

Jordan James wrote:
> I don't know why, but I seem to get a lot of errors running Python.  How 
> I came to use Python was through Blender, a freeware 3D package (that 
> uses Python) that you've probably heard of.  At first, I found that only 
> a few of the scripts that I downloaded for use in Blender worked, so I 
> thought it was a problem with Blender.  So I got the actual python 
> command line and GUI.  I still had lots of errors running scripts by 
> other people.  For example,  "os.system".   When I say
>  
> os.system("start notepad")
>  
> ,it says
>  
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "C:/Program Files/Python/launch.py", line 1, in ?
>     os.system("start notepad")
> NameError: name 'os' is not defined
>  
> I'm pretty sure this isn't normal, because I read all of the tutor pages 
> by other people, and these things work for them.  I am running Python 
> 2.3; is this possibly a really old version?  Is there some major step 
> I'm not doing?  I'm running Windows 98, does Python have problems with 
> Windows?  Are there any other factors I need to consider?
>  
> I know my problem is pretty broad, but if anyone knows what is going on, 
> I would appreciate it if you told me.
>  
> Thanks.
>  
> Jordan

Hi Jordan,

The problem with your os.system line seems to be that you have not 
imported the module first. Python doesn't know what 'os' refers to 
(could be a module, a variable in another file, whatever), so it gives 
you the name error, because it doesn't recognize the name.

If you import the os module first, then it knows what 'os' refers to, 
and will correctly call the function 'system' that is in that module:

Python 2.2.1 (#1, Nov 10 2002, 18:40:13)
[GCC 3.2] on linux2
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
 >>> os.system("ls")
Traceback (most recent call last):
   File "", line 1, in ?
NameError: name 'os' is not defined
 >>> import os
 >>> os.system("ls")
afile.txt
0
 >>>

You have to import a module before you have access to anything in that 
module (like the 'system' function in the os module).

-calvin

btw, Python 2.3 is very new. I think the latest stable release is 2.2.3.



From silviucc@home.ro  Thu Jul 17 18:47:55 2003
From: silviucc@home.ro (Silviu Cojocaru)
Date: Thu Jul 17 17:47:55 2003
Subject: [Tutor] test - sorry
Message-ID: 



From alan.gauld@blueyonder.co.uk  Thu Jul 17 19:33:01 2003
From: alan.gauld@blueyonder.co.uk (Alan Gauld)
Date: Thu Jul 17 18:33:01 2003
Subject: [Tutor] curses.wrapper() question
References: <1058424268.942.9.camel@caustic.laptop>
Message-ID: <006801c34cb3$5b3edfd0$6401a8c0@xp>

No help on the curses wrapper stuff, in fact its existence 
was news to me! However...

> #### Begin Code
> 
> def newWindow():
> begin_x = 20 ; begin_y = 7
> height = 5 ; width = 40
> win = curses.newwin(height, width, begin_y, begin_x)
> return

You need to indent the function body(but that might just be 
an email wobbly) More significantly you don't need the empty 
return statement. By default Python functions return None.

Also you might be better putting x,y,h and w in as parameters 
rather than variables. This will allow you to specify them when 
you call newWindow. Like this:

def newWindow(begin_x=20, begin_y=7, height=5,width=40):
    win = curses.newwin(height, width, begin_y, begin_x)

You can then call this like:

newWin()   # use the defaults specified
newWin(7,5,3,4)   # a very small window
newWin(width=70)  # defaults except for width

> for y in range(0,100):
> for x in range(0,100):
> try: pad.addch(y,x, ord('a') + (x*x+y*y) % 26)
> except curses.error: pass

Again I assume mail is messing up the necessary indentation?

HTH even if not with your real problem,

Alan G.


From Janssen@rz.uni-frankfurt.de  Thu Jul 17 19:37:03 2003
From: Janssen@rz.uni-frankfurt.de (Michael Janssen)
Date: Thu Jul 17 18:37:03 2003
Subject: [Tutor] curses.wrapper() question
In-Reply-To: <1058424268.942.9.camel@caustic.laptop>
References: <1058424268.942.9.camel@caustic.laptop>
Message-ID: 

On Thu, 17 Jul 2003, Alex from Caustic Creations wrote:

> Hello,
>
> I'm trying to learn python because I would like to create a simple cash
> register application using curses. I read the curses howto and the
> reference manual and both refer to the curses.wrapper function. The
> advantages of using the wrapper are significant, yet I can't seem to
> call it up properly.
>
> I've included my "test.py" program - a compilation of all of the
> statements in the curses howto so I could see and play around with their
> effects. If anyone can find the time, could someone alter this little
> demo program using the curses wrapper to illustrate its correct use?

Hi Alex,

curses.wrapper() is very easy to use :-) But you have to redesign your
script for this....

curses.wrapper takes a function as argument. But what for a function? The
"main" function for your curses application that does *all* the logic.

By now you write your script much like a shell-script doing one step after
another. This is a typical way to start, not that efficient (in terms of
maintainable code) and unfortunatelly a no-go-way for curses.wrapper.

A better design would be:

1. setting some global constants (if at all)

2. definining a "main" function (you can call it at wil, but "main" is
often used) that does all the logic (mostly by calling subfunctions)

3. define subfunctions as you need

4. call "main":

main()

This should (should in the meanding of "for the sake of beauty") be the
only piece of code that is called on top level (zero indentation).

curses.wrapper is now simply used this way:
curses.wrapper(main)

Here I've got a piece of code that shows the non-wrapper way but with use
of a "main" function (The "if __name__=='__main__':" part asures that the
code is only excecuted when the file is excecuted as a script (not
imported as a modul). You can ignore this when you can't see the
benefit. try-finally asures the the finally-block is executed even if an
exception occurs in main. You shouldn't ignore this ;-):

if __name__=='__main__':
    try:
	stdscr=curses.initscr()
	curses.noecho() ; curses.cbreak()
	stdscr.keypad(1)
	main(stdscr)			# Enter the main loop
    finally:
        stdscr.erase()
        stdscr.refresh()
	stdscr.keypad(0)
	curses.echo() ; curses.nocbreak()
	curses.endwin()			# Terminate curses


and the same (plus color activating) with the wrapper:

if __name__=='__main__':
    curses.wrapper(main)


When you absolutly have no idea how to break your code into subfunctions
and call them by a main-function, then you can also add one level of
indentation to the whole code and put a
def main():

right in front of it. As a last resort ;-)

cheers
Michael


From Janssen@rz.uni-frankfurt.de  Thu Jul 17 19:45:02 2003
From: Janssen@rz.uni-frankfurt.de (Michael Janssen)
Date: Thu Jul 17 18:45:02 2003
Subject: [Tutor] curses.wrapper() question
In-Reply-To: 
References: <1058424268.942.9.camel@caustic.laptop>
 
Message-ID: 

On Fri, 18 Jul 2003, Michael Janssen wrote:

> Hi Alex,
>
> curses.wrapper() is very easy to use :-) But you have to redesign your
> script for this....
>
> curses.wrapper takes a function as argument. But what for a function? The
> "main" function for your curses application that does *all* the logic.
>
> By now you write your script much like a shell-script doing one step after
> another. This is a typical way to start, not that efficient (in terms of
> maintainable code) and unfortunatelly a no-go-way for curses.wrapper.
>
> A better design would be:
>
> 1. setting some global constants (if at all)
>
> 2. definining a "main" function (you can call it at wil, but "main" is
> often used) that does all the logic (mostly by calling subfunctions)

I have forgotten one important thing: curses.wrapper will send the curses
main window ("stdscr") to main as an argument.

So you must write your main-function in that way, that it will *take* this
argument.

def main(stdscr):
    stdscr.addstr(0, 0, "Hello World!") # or what you want

is nice.

Michael


From Janssen@rz.uni-frankfurt.de  Thu Jul 17 19:51:02 2003
From: Janssen@rz.uni-frankfurt.de (Michael Janssen)
Date: Thu Jul 17 18:51:02 2003
Subject: [Tutor] curses.wrapper() question
In-Reply-To: <006801c34cb3$5b3edfd0$6401a8c0@xp>
References: <1058424268.942.9.camel@caustic.laptop> <006801c34cb3$5b3edfd0$6401a8c0@xp>
Message-ID: 

On Thu, 17 Jul 2003, Alan Gauld wrote:

> [Alex]
> > for y in range(0,100):
> > for x in range(0,100):
> > try: pad.addch(y,x, ord('a') + (x*x+y*y) % 26)
> > except curses.error: pass
>
> Again I assume mail is messing up the necessary indentation?

it was right for me but yet another proof of the saying that tabs are
evil ;-)

Michael


From dyoo@hkn.eecs.berkeley.edu  Thu Jul 17 21:31:02 2003
From: dyoo@hkn.eecs.berkeley.edu (Danny Yoo)
Date: Thu Jul 17 20:31:02 2003
Subject: [Tutor] Problem recording large wav files with Snack
In-Reply-To: <20030717130738.4f09e98d.klappnase@freenet.de>
Message-ID: 


On Thu, 17 Jul 2003, klappnase wrote:

> I am trying to develop some little sound applications for linux using
> the snack toolkit. (I am far from being a "professional" programmer, but
> just a beginner).
>
> I want to record large files to disk (whole sides of vinyl albums), so I
> do something like:
>
> s = tkSnack.Sound(encoding="Lin16", frequency=44100, channels=2,
> fileformat="WAV", byteorder="littleEndian,\
> 			precision="double", file="xyz.wav")
> s.record()


Hi klappnase,


I'm not too familiar with the tkSnack module, and I'm not sure if any of
us here can help diagnose the problem; it sounds more like an operating
systems issue more than anything else.  you may want to contact Snack's
author, according to:

    http://www.speech.kth.se/snack/FAQ.html



We can, at least, see Python syntax errors... *grin* Are you sure that's
not missing a quote sign here?

         fileformat="WAV", byteorder="littleEndian,\
                                     ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^



[off-topic, sorta:

    If you are running on a Linux system, you may want to double check
    that your hard drive is tuned to performance:

        http://linux.oreillynet.com/pub/a/linux/2000/06/29/hdparm.html

    Most Linux systems are very conservative in the way they use their
    hard drives --- you may be running into a simple IO issue.
]


Good luck!



From saf@mail.scottfallin.com  Thu Jul 17 23:53:02 2003
From: saf@mail.scottfallin.com (Scott Fallin)
Date: Thu Jul 17 22:53:02 2003
Subject: [Tutor] parsing x is y statements from stdin
Message-ID: <20030718025010.GA5868@localhost.localdomain>

I'm trying to figure out how best to parse a string such as "It is hot today".  I want to check for the existance of a predefined verb that will always be located in the middle of the sentence, and if the verb test passes, I want to chop the sentence up in to variables, var1 = 'It', var2 = 'is', and var3 = "hot today".

I can do it in Perl but for some reason it is elluding me in Python.

Any light shed would be much appreciated.

s.


From dyoo@hkn.eecs.berkeley.edu  Fri Jul 18 00:43:02 2003
From: dyoo@hkn.eecs.berkeley.edu (Danny Yoo)
Date: Thu Jul 17 23:43:02 2003
Subject: [Tutor] parsing x is y statements from stdin
In-Reply-To: <20030718025010.GA5868@localhost.localdomain>
Message-ID: 


On Thu, 17 Jul 2003, Scott Fallin wrote:

> I'm trying to figure out how best to parse a string such as "It is hot
> today".  I want to check for the existance of a predefined verb that
> will always be located in the middle of the sentence, and if the verb
> test passes, I want to chop the sentence up in to variables, var1 =
> 'It', var2 = 'is', and var3 = "hot today".
>
> I can do it in Perl but for some reason it is elluding me in Python.


Hi Scott,

Can you show us how you're doing it in Perl?  We'll be happy to help you
apply your knowledge of Perl to better understand how to do it in Python.


By the way, you may be interested in a module called 'Monty Tagger':

    http://web.media.mit.edu/~hugo/research/montytagger.html


You may not even need to write much code.  *grin*


Good luck to you!



From lonetwin@yahoo.com  Fri Jul 18 03:30:02 2003
From: lonetwin@yahoo.com (lonetwin)
Date: Fri Jul 18 02:30:02 2003
Subject: [Tutor] Portalocker
In-Reply-To: <90.3a0bc6c5.2c484ccb@aol.com>
References: <90.3a0bc6c5.2c484ccb@aol.com>
Message-ID: <200307181212.21502.lonetwin@yahoo.com>

Hi there,
    Could you possibly post a URL for portalocker ??
At first glance I can hazard a guess, since I too have done such mistakes when 
playing in the interpreter.

> >>> import portalocker
> >>> file=open("C:\My Documents\log.txt", "r+")
> >>> portalocker.lock(file, portalocker.LOCK_EX)
>
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "", line 1, in ?
>     portalocker.lock(file, portalocker.LOCK_EX)
> AttributeError: 'module' object has no attribute 'lock'

    The error message is pretty clear. You seem to be calling a non-existant 
method in the module 'portalocker' called 'lock' ('module' object has no 
attribute 'lock')

    Normally, for me, something like this happens in the interpreter when I 
stupidly try to use a method that belongs to a class with the same name is 
the module. What I mean is, look at the portalocker module and see if there 
is a class called 'portalocker' which you have to instantiate before calling 
the 'lock' method on the instance.

Peace
Steve

-- 
It is easier to resist at the beginning than at the end.
		-- Leonardo da Vinci


From exnihilo@myrealbox.com  Fri Jul 18 04:07:02 2003
From: exnihilo@myrealbox.com (calvin)
Date: Fri Jul 18 03:07:02 2003
Subject: [Tutor] simple threads program
Message-ID: <3F179C23.7010504@myrealbox.com>

hi,

I am trying to create a simple threaded program, to learn how threads work.

I would like to download and save a bunch of pages, and since the 
download is most of the time, it seems like a good candidate for speedup 
using threads.

What I have so far is a simple program that I've adapted from thread 
examples that I've seen on the web:

#!/usr/bin/python

import thread, urllib

pages = ['cnn.com', 'nytimes.com', 'slashdot.org', 'kuro5hin.org', 
'news.google.com', 'berkeley.edu']
pages = pages * 3

def getPage(id, p):
    stdoutmutex.acquire()
    sock = urllib.urlopen('http://'+p)
    print "Downloaded", p
    htmlSource = sock.read()
    f = open(p+'.html', 'w')
    f.write(htmlSource)
    f.close()
    stdoutmutex.release()
    exitmutexes[id].acquire() # signal main thread
   
stdoutmutex = thread.allocate_lock()
exitmutexes = []


for i in range(len(pages)):
    exitmutexes.append(thread.allocate_lock())
    thread.start_new(getPage, (i, pages[i]))
    print "Started thread", i

for mutex in exitmutexes:
    while not mutex.locked(): pass

print "Main thread exiting"


This seems to be running as if everything is in one thread, since the 
pages always download in the exact order that they appear in the list of 
pages.

Any hints at what I'm doing wrong?

thanks,

calvin



From thomi@thomi.imail.net.nz  Fri Jul 18 04:12:02 2003
From: thomi@thomi.imail.net.nz (Thomas CLive Richards)
Date: Fri Jul 18 03:12:02 2003
Subject: [Tutor] simple threads program
In-Reply-To: <3F179C23.7010504@myrealbox.com>
References: <3F179C23.7010504@myrealbox.com>
Message-ID: <20030718191147.2b04b3fd.thomi@thomi.imail.net.nz>

> 
> I would like to download and save a bunch of pages, and since the 
> download is most of the time, it seems like a good candidate for
> speedup using threads.
> 

I'm not going to comment on the code (because i can't), but your example
seems a little wierd...

surely if the downloading take up most of the time, this would mean that
you're on a fairly slow connection? perhaps dialup? If so, how would
having multiple threads speed it up? OK, so there would be a slight
speed increase, but you can't download 3 times as much by having 3
separate downloads; they'll just be coming down at 1/3 the speed....

When i used threads, i just followed the documentation in the threading
module, and it worked just fine ;)

-- 

Thomi Richards,
thomi@thomi.imail.net.nz



From john.moylan@rte.ie  Fri Jul 18 04:54:01 2003
From: john.moylan@rte.ie (John Moylan)
Date: Fri Jul 18 03:54:01 2003
Subject: [Tutor] trying to get md5sums of a list of files
In-Reply-To: <20030717214755.25155.32458.Mailman@mail.python.org>
References: <20030717214755.25155.32458.Mailman@mail.python.org>
Message-ID: <1058514779.11743.1717.camel@localhost.localdomain>

Thanks, that was embarrassingly simple solution.


John


******************************************************************************
The information in this e-mail is confidential and may be legally privileged.
It is intended solely for the addressee. Access to this e-mail by anyone else
is unauthorised. If you are not the intended recipient, any disclosure,
copying, distribution, or any action taken or omitted to be taken in reliance
on it, is prohibited and may be unlawful.
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From john.moylan@rte.ie  Fri Jul 18 05:59:01 2003
From: john.moylan@rte.ie (John Moylan)
Date: Fri Jul 18 04:59:01 2003
Subject: [Tutor] re:md5sum
In-Reply-To: <20030717214755.25155.32458.Mailman@mail.python.org>
References: <20030717214755.25155.32458.Mailman@mail.python.org>
Message-ID: <1058518721.11743.1730.camel@localhost.localdomain>

Thanks, your code helped alot.

I found that I still had to strip \n's from my filelist code with the
following though:

 for path in open('filelist3'):
      f = path.strip() #strip \n's otherwise "file not found" type error
      print md5file(open(f, "rb"))



> Hi everyone,
> 
> 
> One other potential bug: readlines() sucks in the whole file into memory
> at once, and treats it as a text file.  For large files, this may impact
> memory, so a safer approach is to use a "chunked" read():
> 
> ###
> def md5file(f):
>     """Returns an md5sum hex string of a file."""
>     m = md5.new()
>     while 1:
>         bytes = f.read(1024)
>         if not bytes: break
>         m.update(bytes)
>     return m.hexdigest()
> ###
> 
> 
> I read a kilobyte arbitrary: dunno why, I guess it's a nice round number.
> *grin* The important thing is to avoid reading the whole file at once, but
> to do it progressively.  md5's update() method is designed to be called
> many times precisely because it works on chunks at a time.  With this
> md5file() approach, we can now deal with files of any size without running
> into a memory problem.
> 
> 
> 
> Once we code up this md5file() utility function, John's original question:
> 
> """
> I am going to compute md5sums for each file and sort them; check for
> duplicate files.
> This is relatively easy in bash:
> for i in `cat filelist` do; md5sum $i; done
> """
> 
> 
> has a cute translation in Python:
> 
> ###
> for f in open('filelist'):
>     print md5file(open(f, "rb"))        ## Question: why "rb"?
> ###
> 
> 
> 
> There's one other subtle point that deals with the inner file-open()ing
> loop.  In particular, the "b"  "binary" open() part in the loop is
> important.  If we want to make sure we're getting the same results as our
> shell's "md5sum" utility, we must not treat newlines as special
> characters, since they too contribute to the md5 sum.  Opening a file in
> binary mode will make sure newlines are treated such as any other byte in
> our file.
> 
> 
> Hope this helps!
> 
> 
> 



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The information in this e-mail is confidential and may be legally privileged.
It is intended solely for the addressee. Access to this e-mail by anyone else
is unauthorised. If you are not the intended recipient, any disclosure,
copying, distribution, or any action taken or omitted to be taken in reliance
on it, is prohibited and may be unlawful.
Please note that emails to, from and within RTÉ may be subject to the Freedom
of Information Act 1997 and may be liable to disclosure.
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From Janssen@rz.uni-frankfurt.de  Fri Jul 18 06:22:02 2003
From: Janssen@rz.uni-frankfurt.de (Michael Janssen)
Date: Fri Jul 18 05:22:02 2003
Subject: [Tutor] curses.wrapper() question
In-Reply-To: <1058487042.855.20.camel@caustic.laptop>
References: <1058424268.942.9.camel@caustic.laptop>
 
 <1058487042.855.20.camel@caustic.laptop>
Message-ID: 

[a copy to tutor@python.org FYI]

On Fri, 17 Jul 2003, Alex from Caustic Creations wrote:

> Hello Michael,
>
> Thanks a lot for taking the time to explain things to me. I must admit
> that I was quite confused when I was able to call curses functions like
> curses.addchr() yet had no success calling the curses.wrapper()
> function.
>
> So, if I'm understanding things correctly, my simple cash register
> program structure should look something like this:
>
> #! /usr/bin/python
>
> # Import the curses module and perhaps the math and time module
>
> import curses, math, time
>
> # Define the "main" function
>
> def main(stdscr):
>     stdscr.addstr(0, 0, "Hello World!") # or what you want
>
> # Define "clock" function as a sub-function of "main" (or perhaps
> # import it as a separate module).
>
>     def clock()
>         ....
>         Stuff that prints the time day.
>         ....

Well, you've learned fast :-) That's the way to do it with
curses.wrapper() and a much cleaner way to programm python (Although
beginners have normally more time to learn this, but curses.wrapper
pushes).

One little hint: its completly okey to define functions inside other
functions (like your clock-function) but this is seldom used (I can't
remember any reason why to do it at all, but I've seen it in code). More
convenient would be:

def main():
    # some stuff including call the clock function.

def clock():
    # some clock stuff

The advantage is to keep the main-function small. Ideally "main" should
act as the highest level programm-logic, representing the steps the
programm takes in the most comprehensive way and call subfunction (I
should have said "other function") any time it comes into details.

This way other code-readers or you some month further will have little
trubble to understand what your programm does.


By the way: I've got a curses-programm that has got longish functions to
get user-input. I still want this code a little more cleaner. The problem
is, that you must do a lot of "if-else" to recognise the getch-input and
for different purposes (input for the whole programm in contrast to input
for a single field) i rewrite this function with a bit different if-elses
and in the end I have three or four different input functions all doing
nearly the same. A better approach would be to define a function, that has
default bindings for all keys but the bindings can be overwritten.

I don't know if you want to go into the realms of elaborate user input but
in case we could possibly share our code and solutions? If you like, I can
post you my code.

regards
Michael

# Send the main function through the curses.wrapper() function

if __name__ == '__main__':
        curses.wrapper(main)

# End of code

Would this be correct?

You are right. My little script looks like a bash script. You are also
right in saying that this is just for starting. It's how I learned to
program PHP. I would write my intial PHP script in one big file and see
how I could make things more efficient by chopping things up into
includes, functions, and classes. This approach unfortunately didn't
help me with the curses.wrapper() function.

Thanks again for your time,

Alex




From silviucc@home.ro  Fri Jul 18 06:51:35 2003
From: silviucc@home.ro (Silviu Cojocaru)
Date: Fri Jul 18 05:51:35 2003
Subject: [Tutor] OT: Admin suggestion: Add reply address to mailer
In-Reply-To: <3F155C41.7000800@icon.co.za>
Message-ID: 

On Wed, 16 Jul 2003, Quentin wrote:

> All the lists I belong to have an auto reply address that will return 
> all replies back to the list, instead of to the original poster. Most 
> mailing list servers have this option. Is it possible for the Tutor list 
> to have it as well?
> If this was a pre decided decision not to have a reply address, I'll 
> stand by it, else (elif? :) ), how do the other members feel about it?

If you happen to use procmail for mail filtering you could easily alter 
the rule that filters the mail for this list so a "Reply-To: 
tutor@python.org" can be added (or superseded) with formail.

I have something like this that seems to do the job:

:0:
* ^X-BeenThere: tutor@python.org
| /usr/bin/formail -i "Reply-To: tutor@python.org" >> IN-S-Python


-- 
Your mind understands what you have been taught; your heart, what is true.




From andi@buxach.de  Fri Jul 18 07:29:01 2003
From: andi@buxach.de (Andreas Zwinkau)
Date: Fri Jul 18 06:29:01 2003
Subject: [Tutor] simple threads program
In-Reply-To: <3F179C23.7010504@myrealbox.com>
References: <3F179C23.7010504@myrealbox.com>
Message-ID: <20030622110935.7a4c52d2.andi@buxach.de>

I didn't really read your script, i must admit, but here is the shortest
usage of threading i can think of:

import thread
def my_thread():
	# do second thread things ...
	pass
thread.start_new_thread(my_thread, ())
# do first thread things ...
pass

Note: start_new() is obsolete, use start_new_thread()
I'm not very experienced, but it works for me this way :)

mfg
Andreas Zwinkau
 | web: andi.dasstellenwirinsinternet.de
 | mail: andi@buxach.de
 | jabber: beza1e1@amessage.de


From kalle@lysator.liu.se  Fri Jul 18 07:57:01 2003
From: kalle@lysator.liu.se (Kalle Svensson)
Date: Fri Jul 18 06:57:01 2003
Subject: [Tutor] simple threads program
In-Reply-To: <20030622110935.7a4c52d2.andi@buxach.de>
References: <3F179C23.7010504@myrealbox.com> <20030622110935.7a4c52d2.andi@buxach.de>
Message-ID: <20030718105607.GE19374@i92.ryd.student.liu.se>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

[Andreas Zwinkau]
> I didn't really read your script, i must admit, but here is the
> shortest usage of threading i can think of:
> 
> import thread
...

You shouldn't really use the thread module unless you have a good
reason to.  Use threading instead.

  import threading

  class Thread1(threading.Thread):
      def run(self):
  	# do thread 1 stuff.

  class Thread2(threading.Thread):
      def run(self):
  	# do thread 2 stuff.

  t1 = Thread1()
  t2 = Thread2()
  t1.start()
  t2.start()

Peace,
  Kalle
- -- 
Kalle Svensson, http://www.juckapan.org/~kalle/
Student, root and saint in the Church of Emacs.
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From Jan.Wilhelmsen@bilia.no  Fri Jul 18 08:29:02 2003
From: Jan.Wilhelmsen@bilia.no (Wilhelmsen Jan)
Date: Fri Jul 18 07:29:02 2003
Subject: [Tutor] newbie question
Message-ID: <9DB3344EC407D311A0A500508B0963E401DE32CB@ex84701.cars.no.bilia.net>

This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand
this format, some or all of this message may not be legible.

------_=_NextPart_001_01C34D1F.710DA370
Content-Type: text/plain

 
Hi!
 
I'm fairly new to programming so I have to ask a simple question.
 
 
I have a text file witch contains some constants that I will use later when
parsing some other text files.
 
File 1:
 
40            444
60            380
68            950
70            950
 
 
 
What I have to do is to check to values in column 1(v1) against a value in
another a text string(v2), if match then v1 = v2.
 
I know have to do this by opening the file and do a search and then close
the file.
 
But since this check will occur numerous times I thought maybe it's better
too read the file in memory once and that's it.
 
Can I make sort of a "table" (t1) with objects (column1) that has a
value(column2). 
 
Then check this "table" when parsing the other text file?
Hope someone can give me some tip about this.
 
 
Regards
 
Jan Wilhelmsen
 


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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according to F-secure Content Scanner 5.0
Fri, 18 Jul 2003 13:26:33 +0200 GMT
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------_=_NextPart_001_01C34D1F.710DA370
Content-Type: text/html
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable






















 



Hi!



 



I'm fairly new to
programming so I have to ask a simple question.



 <=
/font>



 <=
/font>



I have a text file witch
contains some constants that I will use later when parsing some other text
files.



 <=
/font>



File 1:<=
/font>



 



40            444



60            380



68            950



70            950



 



 



 <=
/font>



What I have to do is to c=
heck
to values in column 1(v1) against a value in another a text string(v2),
if match then v1 =3D v2.



 <=
/font>



I know have to do this by=
 opening
the file and do a search and then close the file.<=
/p>


 <=
/font>



But since this check will=
 occur
numerous times I thought maybe it's better too
read the file in memory once and that's it.



 <=
/font>



Can I make sort of a "tab=
le"
(t1) with objects (column1) that has a value(col=
umn2).




 <=
/font>



Then check this "table"
when parsing the other text file?



Hope someone can give me =
some
tip about this.



 <=
/font>



 <=
/font>



Regards=




 <=
/font>



Jan
Wilhelmsen



 =










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free 

according to F-secure Content Scanner 5.0

Fri, 18 Jul 2003 13:26:33 +0200 GMT

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------_=_NextPart_001_01C34D1F.710DA370--


From andi@buxach.de  Fri Jul 18 08:52:01 2003
From: andi@buxach.de (Andreas Zwinkau)
Date: Fri Jul 18 07:52:01 2003
Subject: [Tutor] simple threads program
In-Reply-To: <20030718105607.GE19374@i92.ryd.student.liu.se>
References: <3F179C23.7010504@myrealbox.com>
 <20030622110935.7a4c52d2.andi@buxach.de>
 <20030718105607.GE19374@i92.ryd.student.liu.se>
Message-ID: <20030718135010.6f3abac6.andi@buxach.de>

> You shouldn't really use the thread module unless you have a good
> reason to.  Use threading instead.
What's the difference?
threading.start_new_thread() is also available, may i use this?
Any good tutorials/examples?


mfg
Andreas Zwinkau
 | web: andi.dasstellenwirinsinternet.de
 | mail: andi@buxach.de
 | jabber: beza1e1@amessage.de


From roypython@hotmail.com  Fri Jul 18 08:56:35 2003
From: roypython@hotmail.com (roy ollis)
Date: Fri Jul 18 07:56:35 2003
Subject: [Tutor] where to buy python books in phoenix az
Message-ID: 


i have been looking all over phoenix for python books.  i dont have a credit card so that prohibits online purchases.  can anyone tell me a good bookstore  for computerbooks in phoenix.  i have been directed to zooology every time i ask for python books at the major chains, and for b daltons sake i wont tell the name that when i said "its a computer language like java" they led me to cooking books.  i wish programming was as easy to learn as making coffee.  one scoop, a pot of water, and let the machine do the rest.  if anyone knows where i can get the books with cash (or a self programming and teaching computer, just kidding before i get told the obviouse) i will be grateful. i will even send money now and wait for the book if it's from a name i know like amazon.  thanks for any help you can give me.  

Protect your PC - Click here for McAfee.com VirusScan Online 


From saf@scottfallin.com  Fri Jul 18 10:20:03 2003
From: saf@scottfallin.com (Scott Fallin)
Date: Fri Jul 18 09:20:03 2003
Subject: [Tutor] parsing x is y statements from stdin
Message-ID: 

Hi Danny,

Thank you so much for your reply.  Below are code snippets from the bot 
I wrote in Perl.  I know that I should be ashamed to be using a lowly 
bot to help me better understand Python, but strangely, I am not ;)
(Thank you for the tip on Monty Tagger.  It looks neat.)
Ok, here goes...

#--- begin code snippet -----
sub parseChatter {
    my($msgType, $statement) = @_;
    $statement =~ s/\\(\s+)/\#$1\#/g;

    my($left, $middle, $right)

    foreach $thing (@verb) {
       if ($statement =~ /(^|\s)$thing(\s|$)/i) {
       ($left, $middle, $right) = ($`, $&, $');
       $left =~ tr/Z-Z/a-z/l
       $left =~ s/^\s*(.*?)\s*$/$1/;
       $middle =~ s/^\s*(.*?)\s*$/$1/;
       $right =~ s/^\s*(.*?)\s*$/$1/;

       return '' unless ($left and $right);

       # some $msgType matching  along with len checking
        
       # some more cartoon swearword-ish pattern matching is done to
       # to match verbs, strip of punctuation, etc.
       # e.g. if $middle is the verb "is", our entry gets queued up
       # to be put in the "is" database (eg. 'scott is a poor python'
       # programmer is inserted as 'scott => a poor python programmer')
       # and 'scott' is used as the key for future lookups

 

       }
    }

}

I want to do the same thing in Python, well, I want to achieve the same 
goal: parse stdin on an irc channel, do a bit of regex to pull out "she 
is ..."/"they are ..." statements.

I've tried using:  

line = sys.stdin.readline()
print line

but of course the script never progresses past the readline() call.  
I'm rather certain all of stdin is being put into 'line' but it never 
gets to execute the print statement.

I'm wondering if I can't treat each line of stdin as a list where list
[0] is the key, list[1] is the verb, list[2] is the right hand 
side 'target'.  I'm just completely unsure of how to go about doing 
that.

Thank  you for your time and consideration :)

Scott.

#--- end code snippet ----

>Hi Scott,

>Can you show us how you're doing it in Perl?  We'll be happy to help 
>you
>apply your knowledge of Perl to better understand how to do it in 
>Python.


>By the way, you may be interested in a module called 'Monty Tagger':


>>On Thu, 17 Jul 2003, Scott Fallin wrote:

>> I'm trying to figure out how best to parse a string such as "It is 
hot
>> today".  I want to check for the existance of a predefined verb that
>> will always be located in the middle of the sentence, and if the verb
>> test passes, I want to chop the sentence up in to variables, var1 =
>> 'It', var2 = 'is', and var3 = "hot today".
>>
>> I can do it in Perl but for some reason it is elluding me in Python.





From ATrautman@perryjudds.com  Fri Jul 18 10:59:02 2003
From: ATrautman@perryjudds.com (Alan Trautman)
Date: Fri Jul 18 09:59:02 2003
Subject: [Tutor] where to buy python books in phoenix az
Message-ID: <06738462136C054B8F8872D69DA140DB010851@corp-exch-1.pjinet.com>

This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand
this format, some or all of this message may not be legible.

------_=_NextPart_001_01C34D34.9AF4D2C0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"

I our local (central WI) Borders and B & N get out of the windows section of
computers. The section you are looking for will have a huge number of JAVA
books, some stuff I can't think of a good size Perl section and usually a
dozen or so different Python books. 
 
I hate to say it but Perl is most reliable way to find Python:) Come to
think about it, is was Perl that convinced me to pick Python......
 
HTH,
Alan

 
 From: roy ollis [mailto:roypython@hotmail.com]
Sent: Friday, July 18, 2003 6:55 AM
To: tutor@python.org
Subject: [Tutor] where to buy python books in phoenix az



i have been looking all over phoenix for python books.  i dont have a credit
card so that prohibits online purchases.  can anyone tell me a good
bookstore  for computerbooks in phoenix.  i have been directed to zooology
every time i ask for python books at the major chains, and for b daltons
sake i wont tell the name that when i said "its a computer language like
java" they led me to cooking books.  i wish programming was as easy to learn
as making coffee.  one scoop, a pot of water, and let the machine do the
rest.  if anyone knows where i can get the books with cash (or a self
programming and teaching computer, just kidding before i get told the
obviouse) i will be grateful. i will even send money now and wait for the
book if it's from a name i know like amazon.  thanks for any help you can
give me.  

  _____  

Protect your PC - Click here   for
McAfee.com VirusScan Online _______________________________________________
Tutor maillist - Tutor@python.org
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor


------_=_NextPart_001_01C34D34.9AF4D2C0
Content-Type: text/html;
	charset="iso-8859-1"









I our local (central WI) Borders and B & N get out of the windows 
section of computers. The section you are looking for will have a huge number of 
JAVA books, some stuff I can't think of a good size Perl section and usually a 
dozen or so different Python books. 


 


I hate to say it but Perl is most reliable way to find Python:) Come to 
think about it, is was Perl that convinced me to pick 
Python......


 


HTH,


Alan



 


 From: roy ollis 
[mailto:roypython@hotmail.com]
Sent: Friday, July 18, 2003 6:55 
AM
To: tutor@python.org
Subject: [Tutor] where to buy python 
books in phoenix az




  

  
i have been looking all over phoenix for python books.  i dont have 
  a credit card so that prohibits online purchases.  can anyone tell me a 
  good bookstore  for computerbooks in phoenix.  i have been directed 
  to zooology every time i ask for python books at the major chains, and for b 
  daltons sake i wont tell the name that when i said "its a computer language 
  like java" they led me to cooking books.  i wish programming was as easy 
  to learn as making coffee.  one scoop, a pot of water, and let the 
  machine do the rest.  if anyone knows where i can get the books with cash 
  (or a self programming and teaching computer, just kidding before i get told 
  the obviouse) i will be grateful. i will even send money now and wait for the 
  book if it's from a name i know like amazon.  thanks for any help you can 
  give me.  


  

  Protect your PC - Click here 
  for McAfee.com VirusScan Online 
  _______________________________________________ Tutor maillist - 
  Tutor@python.org 
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor


------_=_NextPart_001_01C34D34.9AF4D2C0--


From klappnase@freenet.de  Fri Jul 18 11:10:23 2003
From: klappnase@freenet.de (klappnase@freenet.de)
Date: Fri Jul 18 10:10:23 2003
Subject: [Tutor] parsing x is y statements from stdin
Message-ID: 

DQotLS0gb3JpZ2luYWwgTmFjaHJpY2h0IEVuZGUgLS0tLQ0KDQoNCkknbSB0cnlpbmcgdG8gZmln
dXJlIG91dCBob3cgYmVzdCB0byBwYXJzZSBhIHN0cmluZyBzdWNoIGFzICJJdCBpcyBob3QgdG9k
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aHR0cDovL3d3dy5mcmVlbmV0LmRlL3RpcHAvc2hvcHBpbmcvZWJheQ==



From bwinton@latte.ca  Fri Jul 18 11:17:00 2003
From: bwinton@latte.ca (Blake Winton)
Date: Fri Jul 18 10:17:00 2003
Subject: [Tutor] parsing x is y statements from stdin
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <000001c34d37$4c5d9f90$6401a8c0@phantomfiber.com>

> I'm wondering if I can't treat each line of stdin as a list where list
> [0] is the key, list[1] is the verb, list[2] is the right hand 
> side 'target'.  I'm just completely unsure of how to go about doing 
> that.

Here's what I did, so that you can see my train of thought.
(If you're using an earlier version of Python, and you can't copy
 the following example, email me, and I'll show you the backwards-
 compatible way to do it.)

Python 2.2.3 (#42, May 30 2003, 18:12:08) [MSC 32 bit (Intel)] on win32
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> x = "He is a python programmer"
>>> help( x.split )
Help on built-in function split:

split(...)
    S.split([sep [,maxsplit]]) -> list of strings

    Return a list of the words in the string S, using sep as the
    delimiter string.  If maxsplit is given, at most maxsplit
    splits are done. If sep is not specified or is None, any
    whitespace string is a separator.

>>> x.split( 3 )
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "", line 1, in ?
TypeError: expected a character buffer object
>>> x.split( None, 3 )
['He', 'is', 'a', 'python programmer']
>>> x.split( None, 2 )
['He', 'is', 'a python programmer']


>>> import sys
>>> x = sys.stdin.readline()
You get the idea now.
>>> x.split( None, 2 )
['You', 'get', 'the idea now.\n']
>>> help( x.strip )
Help on built-in function strip:

strip(...)
    S.strip([chars]) -> string or unicode

    Return a copy of the string S with leading and trailing
    whitespace removed.
    If chars is given and not None, remove characters in chars instead.
    If chars is unicode, S will be converted to unicode before stripping
>>> x.strip().split( None, 2 )
['You', 'get', 'the idea now.']

How does that look to you?  Mostly what you wanted?

Later,
Blake.



From sigurd@12move.de  Fri Jul 18 12:17:02 2003
From: sigurd@12move.de (Karl =?iso-8859-1?q?Pfl=E4sterer?=)
Date: Fri Jul 18 11:17:02 2003
Subject: [Tutor] newbie question
In-Reply-To: <9DB3344EC407D311A0A500508B0963E401DE32CB@ex84701.cars.no.bilia.net> (Wilhelmsen
 Jan's message of "Fri, 18 Jul 2003 13:26:33 +0200")
References: <9DB3344EC407D311A0A500508B0963E401DE32CB@ex84701.cars.no.bilia.net>
Message-ID: 

On 18 Jul 2003, Wilhelmsen Jan <- Jan.Wilhelmsen@bilia.no wrote:

> I have a text file witch contains some constants that I will use later when
> parsing some other text files.

> File 1:

> 40            444
> 60            380
> 68            950
> 70            950



> What I have to do is to check to values in column 1(v1) against a value in
> another a text string(v2), if match then v1 = v2.

Can you show with a littlem example what you exactly want to achieve.
Are the values in v2 strings which contain v1 as substring? What happens
with column 2 of your example? You don't semm to need it; you mention
only column1 (== v1) and the value in the second text file (== v2).  Is
that value also in column 1?

> I know have to do this by opening the file and do a search and then close
> the file.

> But since this check will occur numerous times I thought maybe it's better
> too read the file in memory once and that's it.

> Can I make sort of a "table" (t1) with objects (column1) that has a
> value(column2). 

Yes.

> Then check this "table" when parsing the other text file?
> Hope someone can give me some tip about this.

Python has a builtin sequence type called dictionary (a hash table).
Perhaps you could use it (you don't say if the order of the entries
matters (if yes a dictionary won't help)).

To build the dictionary you could simple open the file read the lines
and use the first value as key and the second as value of the
dictionary. Like that eg:

>>> table = {}
>>> f = open("file", "r")
>>> for line in f:
...     line = line.split()
...     table[line[0]] = line[1]
... 
>>> table
{'60': '380', '68': '950', '40': '444', '70': '950'}
>>> 

Now you have a dictionary where column 1 of your file acts as key and
column 2 is the value.

Now to the check
You should give a little example first what you exactly like to achieve
otherwise it's not easy to help you.


   Karl
-- 
Please do *not* send copies of replies to me.
I read the list



From SWidney@ci.las-vegas.nv.us  Fri Jul 18 13:20:03 2003
From: SWidney@ci.las-vegas.nv.us (Scott Widney)
Date: Fri Jul 18 12:20:03 2003
Subject: [Tutor] where to buy python books in phoenix az
Message-ID: <0E5508EBA1620743B409A2B8365DE16FDC86B1@sovereign.ci.las-vegas.nv.us>

> i have been looking all over phoenix for python books.  i 
> dont have a credit card so that prohibits online purchases.  
> can anyone tell me a good bookstore  for computerbooks in 
> phoenix.  i have been directed to zooology every time i ask 
> for python books at the major chains, and for b daltons sake 
> i wont tell the name that when i said "its a computer 
> language like java" they led me to cooking books.  i wish 
> programming was as easy to learn as making coffee.  one 
> scoop, a pot of water, and let the machine do the rest.  if 
> anyone knows where i can get the books with cash (or a self 
> programming and teaching computer, just kidding before i get 
> told the obviouse) i will be grateful. i will even send money 
> now and wait for the book if it's from a name i know like 
> amazon.  thanks for any help you can give me.  

You're looking for computer books and you mention book stores you've
visited. Have you tried any coputer stores? It looks like CompUSA has five
stores in the area; one of them may have what you're looking for.

Also, if you go into a book store with a title in hand, at the very least,
they can order it for you. You don't have to pay anything until the book
arrives. And if you change your mind, most places just put the book on a
shelf for someone else to pick up. Research your purchase online (you don't
need a credit card to browse) then take your choice(s) to the
brick-and-mortar.


From saf@scottfallin.com  Fri Jul 18 13:42:02 2003
From: saf@scottfallin.com (Scott Fallin)
Date: Fri Jul 18 12:42:02 2003
Subject: [Tutor] parsing x is y statements from stdin
Message-ID: 

Michael and Blake,

Thank you both for your suggestions.  They'll do the trick!

I appreciate it very much.

s.


> > I'm wondering if I can't treat each line of stdin as a list where 
list
> > [0] is the key, list[1] is the verb, list[2] is the right hand 
> > side 'target'.  I'm just completely unsure of how to go about doing 
> > that.
> 
> Here's what I did, so that you can see my train of thought.
> (If you're using an earlier version of Python, and you can't copy
>  the following example, email me, and I'll show you the backwards-
>  compatible way to do it.)
> 
> Python 2.2.3 (#42, May 30 2003, 18:12:08) [MSC 32 bit (Intel)] on 
win32
> Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
> >>> x = "He is a python programmer"
> >>> help( x.split )
> Help on built-in function split:
> 
> split(...)
>     S.split([sep [,maxsplit]]) -> list of strings
> 
>     Return a list of the words in the string S, using sep as the
>     delimiter string.  If maxsplit is given, at most maxsplit
>     splits are done. If sep is not specified or is None, any
>     whitespace string is a separator.
> 
> >>> x.split( 3 )
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "", line 1, in ?
> TypeError: expected a character buffer object
> >>> x.split( None, 3 )
> ['He', 'is', 'a', 'python programmer']
> >>> x.split( None, 2 )
> ['He', 'is', 'a python programmer']
> 
> 
> >>> import sys
> >>> x = sys.stdin.readline()
> You get the idea now.
> >>> x.split( None, 2 )
> ['You', 'get', 'the idea now.\n']
> >>> help( x.strip )
> Help on built-in function strip:
> 
> strip(...)
>     S.strip([chars]) -> string or unicode
> 
>     Return a copy of the string S with leading and trailing
>     whitespace removed.
>     If chars is given and not None, remove characters in chars 
instead.
>     If chars is unicode, S will be converted to unicode before 
stripping
> >>> x.strip().split( None, 2 )
> ['You', 'get', 'the idea now.']
> 
> How does that look to you?  Mostly what you wanted?
> 
> Later,
> Blake.
> 
> 
> 

-- 



From jeff@ccvcorp.com  Fri Jul 18 13:42:15 2003
From: jeff@ccvcorp.com (Jeff Shannon)
Date: Fri Jul 18 12:42:15 2003
Subject: [Tutor] simple threads program
References: <3F179C23.7010504@myrealbox.com>	<20030622110935.7a4c52d2.andi@buxach.de>	<20030718105607.GE19374@i92.ryd.student.liu.se> <20030718135010.6f3abac6.andi@buxach.de>
Message-ID: <3F18234B.1090202@ccvcorp.com>

Andreas Zwinkau wrote:

>>You shouldn't really use the thread module unless you have a good
>>reason to.  Use threading instead.
>>    
>>
>What's the difference?
>threading.start_new_thread() is also available, may i use this?
>Any good tutorials/examples?
>

The difference is the threading.Thread class, which handles most of the 
low-level thread management work for you.  Multithreading using 
threading.Threads is typically a matter of creating a subclass of Thread 
which has a run() function that does your work, creating an instance of 
that subclass, and calling that instance's start() method.  You  should 
also look into using Queue.Queue for any inter-thread communication. 
 Queues are a dead-simple and thread-safe way to pass data back and 
forth.  Read the docstrings in the threading and Queue modules for a 
little more detail.

Jeff Shannon
Technician/Programmer
Credit International
 





From magnus@thinkware.se  Fri Jul 18 15:31:02 2003
From: magnus@thinkware.se (Magnus =?iso-8859-1?Q?Lyck=E5?=)
Date: Fri Jul 18 14:31:02 2003
Subject: [Tutor] simple threads program
In-Reply-To: <20030718191147.2b04b3fd.thomi@thomi.imail.net.nz>
References: <3F179C23.7010504@myrealbox.com>
 <3F179C23.7010504@myrealbox.com>
Message-ID: <5.2.1.1.0.20030718203404.020d0528@www.thinkware.se>

At 19:11 2003-07-18 +1200, Thomas CLive Richards wrote:
>surely if the downloading take up most of the time, this would mean that
>you're on a fairly slow connection?

I have a fast connection (10Mbps) and for me, downloads are always
slower than my local connection would allow. Parallel downloads
certainly makes sense.


--
Magnus Lycka (It's really Lyckå), magnus@thinkware.se
Thinkware AB, Sweden, www.thinkware.se
I code Python ~ The Agile Programming Language 



From magnus@thinkware.se  Fri Jul 18 15:33:01 2003
From: magnus@thinkware.se (Magnus =?iso-8859-1?Q?Lyck=E5?=)
Date: Fri Jul 18 14:33:01 2003
Subject: [Tutor] simple threads program
In-Reply-To: <20030718135010.6f3abac6.andi@buxach.de>
References: <20030718105607.GE19374@i92.ryd.student.liu.se>
 <3F179C23.7010504@myrealbox.com>
 <20030622110935.7a4c52d2.andi@buxach.de>
 <20030718105607.GE19374@i92.ryd.student.liu.se>
Message-ID: <5.2.1.1.0.20030718203823.020be1b0@www.thinkware.se>

At 13:50 2003-07-18 +0200, Andreas Zwinkau wrote:
>What's the difference?
>threading.start_new_thread() is also available, may i use this?
>Any good tutorials/examples?

http://starship.python.net/crew/aahz/OSCON2001/index.html


--
Magnus Lycka (It's really Lyckå), magnus@thinkware.se
Thinkware AB, Sweden, www.thinkware.se
I code Python ~ The Agile Programming Language 



From gyromagnetic@excite.com  Fri Jul 18 15:38:05 2003
From: gyromagnetic@excite.com (gyro funch)
Date: Fri Jul 18 14:38:05 2003
Subject: [Tutor] word challenge
Message-ID: <20030718183717.4C29D133F5@xmxpita.excite.com>

Hi,
I thought that this might be an interesting challenge for those of you with a 'puzzling' disposition. ;-)

Suppose I have a phrase from which I want to extract a word made up of at least one letter from each of the words (more than one letter may be taken from each word if desired). The letters must be aligned in the order in which they were taken from the words. 

For instance, if I have the phrase: "handy cool phrase"
I might extract the "h" from "handy", one "o" from "cool", and the "r","s",and "e" from "phrase" to give "horse".  

Each word must exist in some defined dictionary or word list.

I'm looking for an efficient (and/or clever) implementation in Python of some algorithm satisfying these requirements.

I am coding my own solution, but I am interested in what other people come up with as well.

Thanks and have fun.

-g




_______________________________________________
Join Excite! - http://www.excite.com
The most personalized portal on the Web!


From silviucc@home.ro  Fri Jul 18 15:58:05 2003
From: silviucc@home.ro (Silviu Cojocaru)
Date: Fri Jul 18 14:58:05 2003
Subject: [Tutor] word challenge
In-Reply-To: <20030718183717.4C29D133F5@xmxpita.excite.com>
Message-ID: 

On Fri, 18 Jul 2003, gyro funch wrote:
 
> I am coding my own solution, but I am interested in what other people
> come up with as well.

Well, you could have a file with all (or a lot of) words from a 
dictionary and then use some kind of backtracking algo to generate words 
and compare them to what you have in the dictionary file. Or, to make it 
faster (and more RAM hungry :) you put all the words (or the most common 
ones) from the dictionary in a list o strings. Sort that list. Take a 
letter from the first word, try to match words that are in the 
dictionary that begin with that letter. The a letter from the second 
word, and match a word in the dictionary that starts with these two 
letters and so on.

Just an idea (slow one ? :)


-- 
There are twenty-five people left in the world, and twenty-seven of
them are hamburgers.
		-- Ed Sanders



From zak@harlekin-maus.com  Fri Jul 18 16:10:02 2003
From: zak@harlekin-maus.com (Zak Arntson)
Date: Fri Jul 18 15:10:02 2003
Subject: [Tutor] word challenge
In-Reply-To: <20030718183717.4C29D133F5@xmxpita.excite.com>
References: <20030718183717.4C29D133F5@xmxpita.excite.com>
Message-ID: <2314.192.206.201.106.1058555354.squirrel@mail.harlekin-maus.com>

> Suppose I have a phrase from which I want to extract a word made up of
> at least one letter from each of the words (more than one letter may be
> taken from each word if desired). The letters must be aligned in the
> order in which they were taken from the words.

> -g

* Which word do we pick from the phrase? All valid words in the word list?
* Verification: Each word in the phrase must provide one or more letters,
in the order that they appear in the phrase, to the found word?

---
Zak Arntson
www.harlekin-maus.com - Games - Lots of 'em




From vicki@thepenguin.org  Fri Jul 18 16:15:02 2003
From: vicki@thepenguin.org (Vicki Stanfield)
Date: Fri Jul 18 15:15:02 2003
Subject: [Tutor] General object-oriented procedure question
Message-ID: <49551.206.53.226.4.1058555696.squirrel@www.thepenguin.org>

I have a program that has several classes, each with multiple functions
defined. I have mapped my way through enough to basically understand the
flow of things, but I am not sure what happens when it finishes the
mainloop (standard garden-variety mainloop). Say for instance that one of
the classes includes a button that I press to initiate some sequence of
activities. I finish the sequence fine, but then I get back to the class
and the program hangs. I have a pulldown menu which includes an exit, and
that works, but what if I simply want to end after the button activity
ceases. How do I do that? I've inserted print statements after the
mainloop call, but they are never reached unless I exit from the menu. I
need to add something to the end of the mainloop to end when finished, but
I am unsure where to insert it or exactly what to insert. I tried "return
true", but that didn't work.

--vicki









From gyromagnetic@excite.com  Fri Jul 18 16:23:01 2003
From: gyromagnetic@excite.com (gyro funch)
Date: Fri Jul 18 15:23:01 2003
Subject: [Tutor] word challenge
Message-ID: <20030718192228.641E21E413@xmxpita.excite.com>

Hi Zak,

>>* Which word do we pick from the phrase? All valid words in the >>word list?

All words from the phrase must be used to 'donate' letters. The words in the phrase don't have to be in the wordlist.

>>* Verification: Each word in the phrase must provide one or more >>letters,
>>in the order that they appear in the phrase, to the found word?

Yes.

Thanks for responding.

-g


_______________________________________________
Join Excite! - http://www.excite.com
The most personalized portal on the Web!


From zak@harlekin-maus.com  Fri Jul 18 16:57:01 2003
From: zak@harlekin-maus.com (Zak Arntson)
Date: Fri Jul 18 15:57:01 2003
Subject: [Tutor] word challenge
In-Reply-To: <20030718192228.641E21E413@xmxpita.excite.com>
References: <20030718192228.641E21E413@xmxpita.excite.com>
Message-ID: <2842.192.206.201.106.1058558169.squirrel@mail.harlekin-maus.com>

> Hi Zak,
>
>>>* Which word do we pick from the phrase? All valid words in the >>word
>>> list?
>
> All words from the phrase must be used to 'donate' letters. The words in
> the phrase don't have to be in the wordlist.
>
> -g

Oops. I meant to ask:
* Of all possible discovered words from the phrase's own words, which do
we pick? All of them?


---
Zak Arntson
www.harlekin-maus.com - Games - Lots of 'em




From abli@freemail.hu  Fri Jul 18 17:03:02 2003
From: abli@freemail.hu (Abel Daniel)
Date: Fri Jul 18 16:03:02 2003
Subject: [Tutor] General object-oriented procedure question
In-Reply-To: <49551.206.53.226.4.1058555696.squirrel@www.thepenguin.org>
References: <49551.206.53.226.4.1058555696.squirrel@www.thepenguin.org>
Message-ID: <20030718200204.GA10207@hooloovoo>

> I have a program that has several classes, each with multiple functions
> defined. I have mapped my way through enough to basically understand the
> flow of things, but I am not sure what happens when it finishes the
> mainloop (standard garden-variety mainloop).
You mean tkinter mainloop? Please explicitly mention tkinter when your
problem has something to do with it, as there are several graphical
bindings for python, and most likely several modules that have
mainloops. 
I'll assume that you are using tkinter.
> Say for instance that one of
> the classes includes a button that I press to initiate some sequence of
> activities. I finish the sequence fine, but then I get back to the class
> and the program hangs.
Hangs in what sence? The gui becomes unresponsive, you can't click on
any widget, and if you cover the window with something else ad re-expose
it it doesn't get redrawn? Post a 'working' example. (where 'working'
means shows the problem, so it might be better to call it 'broken' :) )
> I have a pulldown menu which includes an exit, and
> that works, but what if I simply want to end after the button activity
> ceases. How do I do that?
What do you mean 'button activity ceases'? After you release a button on
the keyboard? Then bind to the KeyRelease event, and call the quit()
method of a widget from the event callback.
> I've inserted print statements after the
> mainloop call, but they are never reached unless I exit from the menu.
In tkinter you set up your app, call mainloop, and from then on most of
the time is spent in the mainloop which does all the houskeeping stuff
(reedrawing the screen when needed, handling keypresses, etc.) and calls
your event callbacks occasionally. Your event callbacks return to the
mainloop. When you exit the mainloop, the gui is teared down, and your
graphical widgets are gone. Most likely you don't want to do anything
after the mainloop. What are you trying to achieve?

> I need to add something to the end of the mainloop to end when finished,
> but I am unsure where to insert it or exactly what to insert.
I think the mainloop can be ended by two things:
you explicitly end it, with, say the .quit() method of a widget
or
the window manager closes the app down. (The user closes the window by
clicking the icon in the titlebar.)

In the first case, you simply add your code to immedatelly before that
call to the .quit() method.
In the second case, the app is actually sent a message from the
windowmanager to close itself. (At least thats my understanding of who
the thing works.) You can 'intercept' this by using the .protocol()
method of the root window. See
http://www.pythonware.com/library/tkinter/introduction/events-and-bindings.htm
(near the bottom)

Abel Daniel


From gyromagnetic@excite.com  Fri Jul 18 17:04:03 2003
From: gyromagnetic@excite.com (gyro funch)
Date: Fri Jul 18 16:04:03 2003
Subject: [Tutor] word challenge
Message-ID: <20030718200309.0A4B9F699@xmxpita.excite.com>

Hi Zak,

>>Oops. I meant to ask:
>>* Of all possible discovered words from the 
>> phrase's own words, which do we pick? All of them?

Yes, we want a list of all of them. 
This list can then be paired down based on some criterion (shortest, longest, etc.)

-g

_______________________________________________
Join Excite! - http://www.excite.com
The most personalized portal on the Web!


From exnihilo@myrealbox.com  Fri Jul 18 17:19:18 2003
From: exnihilo@myrealbox.com (calvin)
Date: Fri Jul 18 16:19:18 2003
Subject: [Tutor] simple threads program
In-Reply-To: <20030718191147.2b04b3fd.thomi@thomi.imail.net.nz>
References: <3F179C23.7010504@myrealbox.com> <20030718191147.2b04b3fd.thomi@thomi.imail.net.nz>
Message-ID: <3F18559F.8070506@myrealbox.com>

Thomas CLive Richards wrote:

>>I would like to download and save a bunch of pages, and since the 
>>download is most of the time, it seems like a good candidate for
>>speedup using threads.
>>
>>    
>>
>
>I'm not going to comment on the code (because i can't), but your example
>seems a little wierd...
>
>surely if the downloading take up most of the time, this would mean that
>you're on a fairly slow connection? perhaps dialup? If so, how would
>having multiple threads speed it up? OK, so there would be a slight
>speed increase, but you can't download 3 times as much by having 3
>separate downloads; they'll just be coming down at 1/3 the speed....
>

No. I mean that downloading takes most of the time, because the cpu work 
is very little. I have broadband, and I rarely use close to my download 
capacity for any 1 single download, so downloading simultaneously is 
indeed faster than downloading sequentially.

>
>When i used threads, i just followed the documentation in the threading
>module, and it worked just fine ;)
>
>  
>
thanks, that's helpful ;-)

-calvin



From magnus@thinkware.se  Fri Jul 18 17:44:02 2003
From: magnus@thinkware.se (Magnus =?iso-8859-1?Q?Lyck=E5?=)
Date: Fri Jul 18 16:44:02 2003
Subject: [Tutor] parsing x is y statements from stdin
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <5.2.1.1.0.20030718221929.020b9ec0@www.thinkware.se>

At 13:19 2003-07-18 +0000, Scott Fallin wrote:
>I want to do the same thing in Python, well, I want to achieve the same
>goal: parse stdin on an irc channel, do a bit of regex to pull out "she
>is ..."/"they are ..." statements.

This works for me:

import sys

verbs = "is am are have has feel feels".split()

d = {}

for line in sys.stdin:
     line = line.lower()
     for verb in verbs:
         space_verb = " %s " % verb
         if space_verb in line:
             who, what = line.split(space_verb, 2)
             d.setdefault(verb, {}).setdefault(
                 who.strip(), []).append(what.strip())

for verb in d:
     for who in d[verb]:
         print who, verb
         for what in d[verb][who]:
             print '\t%s' % what
         print


I'll go through it in some detail:

import sys
# Needed to access sys.stdin

verbs = "is am are have has feel feels".split()
# A bit more conveinent to type than
# verbs = ["is", "am", ...]

d = {}
# I magine this dictionary will eventually contain
# something like:
# d = {'is': {'dog': ['lazy', 'stupid'], 'cat': ['sleepy']},
#      'has': {'bill': ['money'], 'linus': ['respect']} }
# Note the lists! They are needed to allow several sentences
# with the same subject and verb.

for line in sys.stdin:
# Iterating directly over a file object is the same as readline()
# in recent Python versions

     line = line.lower()
     # Make it all lower case. If you don't want this, the splitting will
     # probably be a little more complicated.

     for verb in verbs:
     # Iterate over the list of verbs

         space_verb = " %s " % verb
         # I assume the verbs are surrounded by space, and I don't want
         # to find the "is" in "disk" when I look for verbs.

         if space_verb in line:
             #Ok, we found the current verb in this sentence

             who, what = line.split(space_verb, 2)
             # Split the line on the verb, but don't split in more
             # than two parts. E.g. "he is what he is" should return
             # ('he', 'what he is'), not ('he', 'what he', '')

             d.setdefault(verb, {}).setdefault(
                 who.strip(), []).append(what.strip())
             # This is obviously the tricky part...
             # First of all, it could be rewritten like:
             #   who = who.strip() # remove leading/trailing whitespace
             #   what = what.strip() # remove leading/trailing whitespace
             #   d_verb = d.setdefault(verb, {})
             #   d_verb_who = d_verb.setdefault(who, [])
             #   d_verb_who.append(what)
             # but if you don't understand .setdefault(), that won't make
             # you a lot wiser...
             # d.setdefault(x,y) means: Return d[x] if it exists, otherwise
             # let d[x] = y and then return d[x]. This methods was created
             # since code like the following was so common in Python code
             #   if not d.has_key(x):
             #       d[x] = []
             #   d[x].append(y)


# I think you figure out the rest...
for verb in d:
     for who in d[verb]:
         print who, verb
         for what in d[verb][who]:
             print '\t%s' % what
         print


--
Magnus Lycka (It's really Lyckå), magnus@thinkware.se
Thinkware AB, Sweden, www.thinkware.se
I code Python ~ The Agile Programming Language 



From hall@ouhep1.nhn.ou.edu  Fri Jul 18 18:46:35 2003
From: hall@ouhep1.nhn.ou.edu (Isaac Hall)
Date: Fri Jul 18 17:46:35 2003
Subject: [Tutor] word challenge
In-Reply-To: <20030718200309.0A4B9F699@xmxpita.excite.com>
Message-ID: 

Ok, so I can think of a couple of ways of going about this.  They would 
probably vary in speed depending on the length of the dictionary file, and 
the phrase.

1)loop over every letter in the phrase.
  Inside this loop, loop over all dictionary words beginning with this 
letter.
  first check that the letters after the current letter are enough to make 
the current word,
  if that passes, check that all the letters in the current word are after 
the current letter.
  if that passes, check that they are in the correct order, if so, we have 
a word that works.

2)check every possible combination that COULD be a word against the 
dictionary.  This method would grow VERY fast with length of phrase I 
think however.  

Ike


On Fri, 18 Jul 2003, gyro funch wrote:

> 
> Hi Zak,
> 
> >>Oops. I meant to ask:
> >>* Of all possible discovered words from the 
> >> phrase's own words, which do we pick? All of them?
> 
> Yes, we want a list of all of them. 
> This list can then be paired down based on some criterion (shortest, longest, etc.)
> 
> -g
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Join Excite! - http://www.excite.com
> The most personalized portal on the Web!
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Tutor maillist  -  Tutor@python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor
> 

-- 



From sigurd@12move.de  Fri Jul 18 19:07:01 2003
From: sigurd@12move.de (Karl =?iso-8859-1?q?Pfl=E4sterer?=)
Date: Fri Jul 18 18:07:01 2003
Subject: [Tutor] word challenge
In-Reply-To: <20030718183717.4C29D133F5@xmxpita.excite.com> (gyro funch's
 message of "Fri, 18 Jul 2003 14:37:17 -0400 (EDT)")
References: <20030718183717.4C29D133F5@xmxpita.excite.com>
Message-ID: 

On 18 Jul 2003, gyro funch <- gyromagnetic@excite.com wrote:

> Hi, I thought that this might be an interesting challenge for those of
> you with a 'puzzling' disposition. ;-)

Yes it was very funny.  I have a possible solution.  Don't know if it's
very pythonesque but I like it.

> Suppose I have a phrase from which I want to extract a word made up of
> at least one letter from each of the words (more than one letter may
> be taken from each word if desired). The letters must be aligned in
> the order in which they were taken from the words.

> For instance, if I have the phrase: "handy cool phrase" I might
> extract the "h" from "handy", one "o" from "cool", and the "r","s",and
> "e" from "phrase" to give "horse".

> Each word must exist in some defined dictionary or word list.


I started playing like that:

phrase    = 'handy cool phrase'
phrasewos = ''.join(phrase.split()).split()
seq       = range(len(phrasewos))

So I had now a sequence where each digit represented an index to our
word list.  To shuffle it I used list comprehension:

[[x,y,z] \
 for x in seq \
 for y in seq[x+1:] \
 for z in seq[y+1:]]

So far so good but how could I build a function for a arbitrary number
of chars?  I let Python write it.

So here comes my solution:


--8<---------------cut here---------------start------------->8---
def shuffle_words(number, phrase):
    phrase = ''.join(phrase.split())
    seq    = range(len(phrase))
    seq    = eval(build_fun(number))
    words  = []
    for word in seq:
        wort = ''
        for index in word:
            wort += phrase[index]
        words.append(wort)
    return words


def build_fun(number):
    vals = '[[a0, '
    fun  = 'for a0 in seq ' 
    for i in range(1, number):
        vals += 'a' + str(i) + ', '
        fun  += 'for ' 'a' + str(i) + ' in seq[' + 'a' + str(i-1) + '+1:]'
    vals += '] '
    fun  += ']'
    return vals + fun

def filter_words(seq, dict):
    filter(lambda x: dict.has_key(x), seq)
--8<---------------cut here---------------end--------------->8---

`build_fun' is a function which creates a string (our list
comprehension)
`shuffle_words' takes our phrase and a number (the length of our words)
and builds all possible combinations according to our rules and returns
them in a list.
`filter_words' takes that list and a dictionary (the dictionary has
existing words as keys) and returns a list with the words found in the
dictionary.

Here an example:

>>> d = {'has': None, 'had': None}
>>> seq = shuffle_words(3, phrase)
>>> filter(lambda x: d.has_key(x), seq)
['had', 'has', 'has', 'has']
>>> 

As we see at the moment words which are multiple times in the list are
also multiple times returned; this may be what we want or not.  But
that's easy to change.


   Karl
-- 
Please do *not* send copies of replies to me.
I read the list



From python@rcn.com  Sat Jul 19 03:35:02 2003
From: python@rcn.com (Raymond Hettinger)
Date: Sat Jul 19 02:35:02 2003
Subject: [Tutor] word challenge
References: <20030718183717.4C29D133F5@xmxpita.excite.com>
Message-ID: <00cc01c34dba$5b2038c0$8bb82c81@oemcomputer>

----- Original Message -----
From: "gyro funch" 
To: 
Sent: Friday, July 18, 2003 2:37 PM
Subject: [Tutor] word challenge


>
> Hi,
> I thought that this might be an interesting challenge for those of you with a 'puzzling' disposition. ;-)
>
> Suppose I have a phrase from which I want to extract a word made up of at least one letter from each of the words (more than one
letter may be taken from each word if desired). The letters must be aligned in the order in which they were taken from the words.
>
> For instance, if I have the phrase: "handy cool phrase"
> I might extract the "h" from "handy", one "o" from "cool", and the "r","s",and "e" from "phrase" to give "horse".

Since the number of paths through the phrase is very large,
a good bet is to start with a dictionary of available words
and test to see if they can be found in the phrase (while
paying attention to letter order and the requirement that
each group be represented).

For speed, there are three quick tests to narrow down the
field:
 * the first letter should be in the first group
 * the last letter should be in the last group
 * each letter must be in the set of letters in the groups

After ruling out words that don't pass the three tests, the
next step is to find possible paths through phrase.  Some
of the complexities and backtracking are illustrated by the test:
   "hot" in "hoo ot otel"

A recursive algorithm is used.  To find where a word is in the
remaining phrase starting from a given position and group,
only the first letter is checked to see if it is in the current group
or next group.  If so, the remainder of the word is checked
starting at the next matching group and position.  If that doesn't
word out, other instances of the first letter are checked for until
there are no more in the current or next group.

class Phrase:
    def __init__(self, s):
        self.words = s.split()
        self.first = dict.fromkeys(self.words[0])
        self.last = dict.fromkeys(self.words[-1])
        self.charmap = {}
        self.conseq = []
        self.group = []
        for i, word in enumerate(self.words):
            for char in word:
                self.charmap.setdefault(char, []).append(i)
                self.conseq.append(char)
                self.group.append(i)
        self.conseq = ''.join(self.conseq)
        self.topgroup = len(self.words)-1

    def __contains__(self, word):
        if word[0] not in self.first: return False
        if word[-1] not in self.last: return False
        for char in word[1:-1]:
            if char not in self.charmap:
                return False
        return self.paths(word)

    def paths(self, word, startpos=0, group=0):
        #print word, startpos, group
        if not word:
            return group == self.topgroup
        char = word[0]
        i = startpos-1
        while 1:
            i = self.conseq.find(char, i+1)
            if i < 0:
                return False
            g = self.group[i]
            if g > group + 1:
                return False
            if g == group and self.paths(word[1:], i+1, group):
                return True
            if g == group+1 and self.paths(word[1:], i+1, group+1):
                return True

P = Phrase("handy cool phrase")
print 'horse' in P
print 'jump' in P

for word in open('mydictionary.txt'):
    if word in P:
       print word


Raymond Hettinger


P.S.  Nice puzzle!




From jpaish@freenet.edmonton.ab.ca  Sat Jul 19 10:44:02 2003
From: jpaish@freenet.edmonton.ab.ca (Joseph Paish)
Date: Sat Jul 19 09:44:02 2003
Subject: [Tutor] is it possible to embed data inside a script?
Message-ID: <03071907470600.01312@localhost.localdomain>

can a person include the data that a script processes inside the script=20
itself? =20

i am in the process of converting a short perl script that processes=20
everything following __DATA__ instead of processing the contents of a=20
separate (very small) file.


stripped down perl code follows :

# -------------
my @lines =3D  ;

foreach (@lines) {
    # do stripped out processing of stuff following __DATA__
    }

__DATA__
abc 123
def 456
ghi 789

# --------


is there some way to achieve the same thing in python?

thanks

joe




From pythontutor@venix.com  Sat Jul 19 11:58:02 2003
From: pythontutor@venix.com (Lloyd Kvam)
Date: Sat Jul 19 10:58:02 2003
Subject: [Tutor] is it possible to embed data inside a script?
In-Reply-To: <03071907470600.01312@localhost.localdomain>
References: <03071907470600.01312@localhost.localdomain>
Message-ID: <3F195C50.3040507@venix.com>

There is no read data ability in Python as there is in Basic and Perl.

You can certainly imbed the data into a python script and process it.
One approach:

DATA = '''abc 123
def 456
ghi 789'''
DATA_lines = DATA.split('\n')
DATA_items = [line.split() for line in DATA_lines]
for x,y in DATA_items:
	# do your thing here

If you prefer to keep things compact:
for x,y in [line.split() for line in DATA.split('\n')]:

Joseph Paish wrote:

> can a person include the data that a script processes inside the script 
> itself?  
> 
> i am in the process of converting a short perl script that processes 
> everything following __DATA__ instead of processing the contents of a 
> separate (very small) file.
> 
> 
> stripped down perl code follows :
> 
> # -------------
> my @lines =  ;
> 
> foreach (@lines) {
>     # do stripped out processing of stuff following __DATA__
>     }
> 
> __DATA__
> abc 123
> def 456
> ghi 789
> 
> # --------
> 
> 
> is there some way to achieve the same thing in python?
> 
> thanks
> 
> joe
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Tutor maillist  -  Tutor@python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor
> 

-- 
Lloyd Kvam
Venix Corp.
1 Court Street, Suite 378
Lebanon, NH 03766-1358

voice:	603-443-6155
fax:	801-459-9582



From bgailer@alum.rpi.edu  Sat Jul 19 12:10:01 2003
From: bgailer@alum.rpi.edu (Bob Gailer)
Date: Sat Jul 19 11:10:01 2003
Subject: [Tutor] is it possible to embed data inside a script?
In-Reply-To: <03071907470600.01312@localhost.localdomain>
Message-ID: <5.2.1.1.0.20030719083457.01c3fc68@66.28.54.253>

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Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

At 07:47 AM 7/19/2003 -0600, Joseph Paish wrote:

>can a person include the data that a script processes inside the script 
>itself?
>
>i am in the process of converting a short perl script that processes
>everything following __DATA__ instead of processing the contents of a
>separate (very small) file.
>
>stripped down perl code follows :
>
># -------------
>my @lines =  ;
>
>foreach (@lines) {
>     # do stripped out processing of stuff following __DATA__
>     }
>
>__DATA__
>abc 123
>def 456
>ghi 789
>
># --------
>
>is there some way to achieve the same thing in python?

Easiest IMHO is to use Python's triple quote to create a literal that spans 
multiple lines.
data =
"""abc 123
def 456
ghi 789
"""
This cannot be the last thing in the script. It must be followed by (at 
minimum) a function call to run your code.
Note that the result includes a newline (\n) character at the end of each 
line. To convert this into a list:
lines = data.split('\n')

An alternate approach: put the data in triple quotes at the end preceded by 
the __DATA__ flag, then use this code to read the script and extract the 
data. This code assumes the module was run as a script, not imported. If it 
were imported then we'd need to examine the module's __file__ property to 
get the source file path.

# retrieve lines following __DATA__
import sys
lines = file(sys.argv[0]).readlines()
start = lines.index('__DATA__\n')
lines = [line.strip('\n') for line in lines[start+1:-1]]

# process the lines
print lines

# define the data
"""
__DATA__
abc 123
def 456
ghi 789
"""

Bob Gailer
bgailer@alum.rpi.edu
303 442 2625

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Version: 6.0.500 / Virus Database: 298 - Release Date: 7/10/2003

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From gyromagnetic@excite.com  Sat Jul 19 13:48:03 2003
From: gyromagnetic@excite.com (gyro funch)
Date: Sat Jul 19 12:48:03 2003
Subject: [Tutor] word challenge
Message-ID: <20030719164714.CAE1B3DE6@xmxpita.excite.com>

Raymond Hettinger wrote:
>>Since the number of paths through the phrase is very large,
>>a good bet is to start with a dictionary of available words
>>and test to see if they can be found in the phrase (while
>>paying attention to letter order and the requirement that
>>each group be represented).




Excellent Raymond!
Thanks for the great analysis and well though out code.

On the other end of the spectrum is my code below.
This uninspiring, brute-force code relies on the 'batteries included' aspect of Python and makes the regular expression engine do all of the work. We basically construct a regular expression satisfying the criteria outlined earlier and 'let it rip' on the word list. As Raymond and others pointed out, the word list could be pre-processed to eliminate words clearly not satisfying the criteria.

Thanks to all for your great code and efforts!

-g


My apologies if my mailer screws up the code formatting.


class FindWords(object):
    def __init__(self, wfile = '/usr/dict/words'):                                                            
        self.wfile = wfile
        self.wlist = []
        self._make_word_list()

    def _make_word_list(self):
        import re
        wrd_re = re.compile(r'^[a-z]+$')
        fh = open(self.wfile,'r')
        all_lines = fh.readlines()
        fh.close()
        for line in all_lines:
            word = line.strip().lower()
            if wrd_re.search(word):
                self.wlist.append(word)
        return self.wlist

    def _build_regex(self, phrase):
        mlist = []
        for word in phrase.split():
            wr,wlist = range(len(word)),[]
            for j in wr:
                wre = ''
                for i in wr:
                    if i == j:
                        char = ''
                    else:
                        char = '?'
                    wre += '%s%s' % (word[i],char)
                wlist.append(wre)
            mlist.append('(%s)' % '|'.join(wlist))
        full_re = '^%s$' % ''.join(mlist)
        return full_re

    def get_words(self, phrase):
        import re
        found_words = []
        p_regex = re.compile(self._build_regex(phrase))
        for word in self.wlist:
            if p_regex.search(word):
                found_words.append(word)
        return found_words
                                         
def main():
    mw = FindWords()
    phrase = 'handy cool phrase'
    wl = mw.get_words(phrase)
    # let's get the longest and shortest words
    wdict = {}
    for word in wl:
        wdict.setdefault(len(word),[]).append(word)
    wrds = wdict.keys()
    mn,mx = min(wrds),max(wrds)
    print wdict[mn]
    print wdict[mx]
    return



_______________________________________________
Express Yourself - Share Your Mood in Emails!
Visit www.SmileyCentral.com - the happiest place on the Web.


From alan.gauld@blueyonder.co.uk  Sat Jul 19 17:08:02 2003
From: alan.gauld@blueyonder.co.uk (Alan Gauld)
Date: Sat Jul 19 16:08:02 2003
Subject: [Tutor] is it possible to embed data inside a script?
References: <03071907470600.01312@localhost.localdomain>
Message-ID: <001d01c34e31$8d962fe0$6401a8c0@xp>

> can a person include the data that a script processes 
> inside the script itself?  

Sure just create a variable assignment.

> i am in the process of converting a short perl script that 
> processes everything following __DATA__ instead of processing 
> the contents of a separate (very small) file.

You can use sinple text strings to hold the data, in which 
case it looks just like a file, but more sensible and sophisticated 
is to hold the data as a Python data structure.

A list of tuples might work, or a dictionary. This avoids all the 
text processing stuff and lets you get right to work while the 
data is still held in text form within the file for easy 
modification between runs.

I often do this for test scripts when using Python for volume tests.

Of course its usually better to separate the two and this can be 
done easily by defining an import and functon call after the data 
and putting all the processing code in a separate file:

#### trivial case ####
# file = foo.py

def process(data):
   for s in data:
      print s

#########################
# file = data.py

data = """
some data here
some more
and still more
"""

import foo
foo.process(data)
#########################

HTH,

Alan G.

Alan G.


From klappnase@freenet.de  Sat Jul 19 21:04:01 2003
From: klappnase@freenet.de (klappnase@freenet.de)
Date: Sat Jul 19 20:04:01 2003
Subject: [Tutor] General object-oriented procedure question
Message-ID: 

DQotLS0gb3JpZ2luYWwgTmFjaHJpY2h0IEVuZGUgLS0tLQ0KDQoNCkkgaGF2ZSBhIHByb2dyYW0g
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IGluY2x1ZGVzIGEgYnV0dG9uIHRoYXQgSSBwcmVzcyB0byBpbml0aWF0ZSBzb21lIHNlcXVlbmNl
IG9mDQphY3Rpdml0aWVzLiBJIGZpbmlzaCB0aGUgc2VxdWVuY2UgZmluZSwgYnV0IHRoZW4gSSBn
ZXQgYmFjayB0byB0aGUgY2xhc3MNCmFuZCB0aGUgcHJvZ3JhbSBoYW5ncy4gSSBoYXZlIGEgcHVs
bGRvd24gbWVudSB3aGljaCBpbmNsdWRlcyBhbiBleGl0LCBhbmQNCnRoYXQgd29ya3MsIGJ1dCB3
aGF0IGlmIEkgc2ltcGx5IHdhbnQgdG8gZW5kIGFmdGVyIHRoZSBidXR0b24gYWN0aXZpdHkNCmNl
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cDovL3d3dy5mcmVlbmV0LmRlL3RpcHAvc2hvcHBpbmcvZWJheQ==



From alex@gabuzomeu.net  Sun Jul 20 08:08:03 2003
From: alex@gabuzomeu.net (Alexandre Ratti)
Date: Sun Jul 20 07:08:03 2003
Subject: [Tutor] Re: [quicky intro to vector search engines]
In-Reply-To: <20030701193109.17977.82811.Mailman@mail.python.org>
Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20030709164311.00bb5e58@mail.poulpe.net>

Hello Danny and All,


>Date: Tue, 1 Jul 2003 12:30:12 -0700 (PDT)
>From: Danny Yoo 
>Subject: Re: [Tutor] writing a search engine   [quicky intro to vector 
>search engines]

Vector search engines looked fun; I just had to give it a try :-)
I uploaded a basic implementation to:

http://www.gabuzomeu.net/alex/py/vsse/SearchEngine.zip

Feedback is welcome.

>The general idea is to turn each document in our collection into a vector 
>in N-dimensional space.  And N can be potentially really large: it's the 
>number of unique words in our whole document collection.

I used Numeric arrays to store these data. Individual arrays are stored in 
a dictionary keyed by file names.

As a test, I indexed the Linux Howto collection (text-only version). That's 
304 files; about 25 MB of data. When searching the collection, the result I 
get look reasonable:

 >>> app.search("apache", 0.15)
Searching in 304 files...
---------------------
Apache-Overview-HOWTO.txt 60.68%
Apache-Compile-HOWTO.txt 34.38%
Apache-WebDAV-LDAP-HOWTO.txt 33.25%
WWW-HOWTO.txt 16.82%

 >>> app.search("beowulf cluster", 0.1)
Searching in 304 files...
---------------------
Beowulf-HOWTO.txt 34.56%
SSI-UML-HOWTO.txt 26.92%
openMosix-HOWTO.txt 18.16%
Cluster-HOWTO.txt 12.80%
Parallel-Processing-HOWTO.txt 11.69%
CPU-Design-HOWTO.txt 10.59%

Memory usage is quite high (about 100 MB for the PythonWin process). When 
saving the index instance to a file as a binary pickle, the file is quite 
large too (70 MB).

>With this numbering, we can now transform our documents into vectors in 
>13-dimensional space.
>
>###
> >>> def transformIntoVector(words):
>...     vector = [0] * 13
>...     for w in words:
>...         vector[d[w]] = 1
>...     return vector

We may have a problem when a query word is not included in the index. For 
now, I just drop it, print out a message and query the index with the 
remaining query words.

>And once we do this, then we can do a search by finding the vectors in our 
>document collection that are most "similar" to our query vector.  One cute 
>way to do a simliarity check is to simply "multiply" a query vector, 
>componentwise, against our document vectors.

>###
> >>> def v_multiply(v1, v2):
>...     sum = 0
>...     for x, y in zip(v1, v2):
>...         sum += x * y
>...     return sum
>###

Here, I just used the formula in the Perl article you quoted*. One 
difference with your exemple is that I store the number of instances of a 
word (or stem) in the document vector.

* http://www.perl.com/lpt/a/2003/02/19/engine.html

>Since our query was the word "emergency", we matched against our first 
>document, but got no hits in our second document.

>self.matrix is a 'pysparse' matrix of all my document vectors, using some 
>libraries from the PySparse project,
>
>    http://www.python.org/pycon/papers/pysparse.html

I haven't tried using pysparse yet.

>(The real reason I'm working on this code is to do document clustering for 
>a digital library

While looking for a pure-python stemmer, I came across this reference:

Machine Learning: Text classification report, Ludvig Omholt, 2001/06/01:

         http://ludde.net/ml/index.html

Some Python code is included:

         http://ludde.net/ml/implementation.html


Cheers.

Alexandre

   




From andi@buxach.de  Sun Jul 20 10:21:35 2003
From: andi@buxach.de (Andreas Zwinkau)
Date: Sun Jul 20 09:21:35 2003
Subject: [Tutor] pcm -> seconds
Message-ID: <20030720151958.3d5eb267.andi@buxach.de>

ave

I am programming a JukeBox, currently i try to figur out how to make a
song fade out? I can change the sound volume no problem (audioop
module), but the problem is the timing.

There is a threaded class, which streams the data as long a variable is
set. Now i would have to let a counter tick in the background to see how
much of the song is played. The stream is a 16bit stereo PCM stream. Is
the amount of time 4kb of that stream need to play fix? So can i count
4kb = 1,4314 (value just imagined) seconds? Or should i figure out the
amount of stream data i get from a mp3?

Or should i just implement yet another thread to count the seconds?

All suggestions are welcome for this problem :)

mfg
Andreas Zwinkau
 | web: andi.dasstellenwirinsinternet.de
 | mail: andi@buxach.de
 | jabber: beza1e1@amessage.de


From alan.gauld@blueyonder.co.uk  Sun Jul 20 16:51:01 2003
From: alan.gauld@blueyonder.co.uk (Alan Gauld)
Date: Sun Jul 20 15:51:01 2003
Subject: [Tutor] pcm -> seconds
References: <20030720151958.3d5eb267.andi@buxach.de>
Message-ID: <004001c34ef8$303d1030$6401a8c0@xp>

> Or should i just implement yet another thread to count the seconds?

Since you are dealing with time I would stick with that and use 
another thread. However if performance starts to suffer then you 
might have to do some clever bytes->time approximations. However 
with the compression involved it may not be too easy.

Alan G


From Sk8erguy2424@aol.com  Sun Jul 20 17:06:02 2003
From: Sk8erguy2424@aol.com (Sk8erguy2424@aol.com)
Date: Sun Jul 20 16:06:02 2003
Subject: [Tutor] Portalocker
Message-ID: <43.1fe3e3f9.2c4c4ffb@aol.com>

--part1_43.1fe3e3f9.2c4c4ffb_boundary
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

The URL for the portalocker module is:
http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Cookbook/Python/Recipe/65203


--part1_43.1fe3e3f9.2c4c4ffb_boundary
Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

The URL for the portalocker module is:

http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Cookbook/Python/Recipe/65203



--part1_43.1fe3e3f9.2c4c4ffb_boundary--


From cybersamurai@mac.com  Sun Jul 20 23:21:03 2003
From: cybersamurai@mac.com (cybersamurai@mac.com)
Date: Sun Jul 20 22:21:03 2003
Subject: [Tutor] XML documentation
Message-ID: <359178A8-BB22-11D7-B454-000393B10A78@mac.com>

I need know here I can find documentation about XML and Python. I know 
How read and write a new XML file but I don't know edit.



From idiot1@netzero.net  Mon Jul 21 00:18:03 2003
From: idiot1@netzero.net (Kirk Bailey)
Date: Sun Jul 20 23:18:03 2003
Subject: [Tutor] is it possible to embed data inside a script?
In-Reply-To: <03071907470600.01312@localhost.localdomain>
References: <03071907470600.01312@localhost.localdomain>
Message-ID: <3F1B5B5B.7090302@netzero.net>

Sure thing.

domainname="tinylist.org"
password="swordfish"
id="idiot1@netzero.net"

simple enough, but wait, there's more!

array1()='2','3','3','4','4','4','5','5','5','5','6','6','6','6','6','7','7','7','7','7','7',...

(2dice, 6 sides, in a matrix. Use ramdom.choice to pick one of them. Weighted correctly 
for 2s6)

These are simplistic examples, but sure, data is just data. You can assign it to any 
variable type in a declaration whenever you like.

Now, when this means a LOT of data, thing can get boring and real easy to get mixed up 
in the programmer's mind. Ever see a program with several HUNDRED DATA statements, read 
by a READ statement? When you go in to change something, it is EASY to get totally lost, 
espically when it is a program which does not number lines.

Why  is it important to store a lot of data IN the program?

Joseph Paish wrote:

> can a person include the data that a script processes inside the script 
> itself?  
> 
> i am in the process of converting a short perl script that processes 
> everything following __DATA__ instead of processing the contents of a 
> separate (very small) file.
> 
> 
> stripped down perl code follows :
> 
> # -------------
> my @lines =  ;
> 
> foreach (@lines) {
>     # do stripped out processing of stuff following __DATA__
>     }
> 
> __DATA__
> abc 123
> def 456
> ghi 789
> 
> # --------
> 
> 
> is there some way to achieve the same thing in python?
> 
> thanks
> 
> joe
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Tutor maillist  -  Tutor@python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor
> 
> 

-- 

end

Cheers!
         Kirk D Bailey

  +                              think                                +
   http://www.howlermonkey.net  +-----+        http://www.tinylist.org
   http://www.listville.net     | BOX |  http://www.sacredelectron.org
   Thou art free"-ERIS          +-----+     'Got a light?'-Promethieus
  +                              think                                +

Fnord.



From vvernon@earthlink.net  Mon Jul 21 02:36:02 2003
From: vvernon@earthlink.net (Vernon Miller)
Date: Mon Jul 21 01:36:02 2003
Subject: [Tutor] PIL
Message-ID: <000b01c34f5a$a235ed80$b99780d1@net>

I have a question, may seem dumb, but I imported the Image module and opened
a gif image.

The question is this, it opened up into my windows paint program. Is that
what it is supposed to do, and if so how can  you get it to open with or in
another graphic program.

Thanks Vernon Miller

P.S. I have started the Visual C ++ course, so I won't have as much time to
work on python until I learn the C++, but I am going to keep trying to give
as much effort as possible to learning Python also. Thanks once again to
everyone for your advice about which program to study. Your comments helped
very much and caused me to look closer at each one of the program before I
decided which to take.



From andi@buxach.de  Mon Jul 21 08:38:01 2003
From: andi@buxach.de (Andreas Zwinkau)
Date: Mon Jul 21 07:38:01 2003
Subject: [Tutor] pcm -> seconds
In-Reply-To: <004001c34ef8$303d1030$6401a8c0@xp>
References: <20030720151958.3d5eb267.andi@buxach.de>
 <004001c34ef8$303d1030$6401a8c0@xp>
Message-ID: <20030721133710.45766692.andi@buxach.de>

Solved ...

The raw pcm stream is 44.1 kHz 16bit stereo, which means 176400 bytes
(44100*16*2/8) are one second.

the raw stream bytes are counted after decode, before pushing them to
the output. The playing is a thread already, so the main thread can
change the volume at the right moment.

mfg
Andreas Zwinkau
 | web: andi.dasstellenwirinsinternet.de
 | mail: andi@buxach.de
 | jabber: beza1e1@amessage.de


From Jan.Wilhelmsen@bilia.no  Mon Jul 21 11:12:50 2003
From: Jan.Wilhelmsen@bilia.no (Wilhelmsen Jan)
Date: Mon Jul 21 10:12:50 2003
Subject: SV: [Tutor] newbie question
Message-ID: <9DB3344EC407D311A0A500508B0963E401DE32D5@ex84701.cars.no.bilia.net>

OK I try to explain a little more detailed.

First of all I have 2 text files witch we want to user for reference =
and
translations.

File 1 looks like this:

40            444
60            380
68            950
70            950
kjeu          847
mnsy          342
kjeu I        984
M=E9g           273

etc...



File 2 is just the same structure as file 1,But of course other values.

Then I have a third file called dataf1.txt

One part of each record in this dataf1.txt looks like this:

00120024311011655      0304      1211      M=E9g       5529260=20

In this case in need to replace M=E9g with 273 and create a new =
datafile and
write the new string in this one.
This is just one of the modifications I have to do but the others are =
pretty
much the same as this.
So if I learn how to do one, the rest will be easier.


I tried too create a dictionary like this:

def t1():
    f =3D open("filename","r")
    for line in f:
        line =3D line.split()
        table[line[0]] =3D line[1]
        print table


But here I get only one dictionary item for both:

Kjeu

And=20

Kjeu I



Does this mean that I can't use the line.split?

When I print out the M=E9g post I get M\xe9g , how can I deal with =
this? This
might not a problem if only the output to the new file is ok.



Regards

Jan Wilhelmsen
IT-Technician
Bilia Personbil as


-----Opprinnelig melding-----
Fra: sigurd@12move.de [mailto:sigurd@12move.de]=20
Sendt: 18. juli 2003 17:12
Til: tutor@python.org
Emne: Re: [Tutor] newbie question

On 18 Jul 2003, Wilhelmsen Jan <- Jan.Wilhelmsen@bilia.no wrote:

> I have a text file witch contains some constants that I will use =
later
when
> parsing some other text files.

> File 1:

> 40            444
> 60            380
> 68            950
> 70            950



> What I have to do is to check to values in column 1(v1) against a =
value in
> another a text string(v2), if match then v1 =3D v2.

Can you show with a littlem example what you exactly want to achieve.
Are the values in v2 strings which contain v1 as substring? What =
happens
with column 2 of your example? You don't semm to need it; you mention
only column1 (=3D=3D v1) and the value in the second text file (=3D=3D =
v2).  Is
that value also in column 1?

> I know have to do this by opening the file and do a search and then =
close
> the file.

> But since this check will occur numerous times I thought maybe it's =
better
> too read the file in memory once and that's it.

> Can I make sort of a "table" (t1) with objects (column1) that has a
> value(column2).=20

Yes.

> Then check this "table" when parsing the other text file?
> Hope someone can give me some tip about this.

Python has a builtin sequence type called dictionary (a hash table).
Perhaps you could use it (you don't say if the order of the entries
matters (if yes a dictionary won't help)).

To build the dictionary you could simple open the file read the lines
and use the first value as key and the second as value of the
dictionary. Like that eg:

>>> table =3D {}
>>> f =3D open("file", "r")
>>> for line in f:
...     line =3D line.split()
...     table[line[0]] =3D line[1]
...=20
>>> table
{'60': '380', '68': '950', '40': '444', '70': '950'}
>>>=20

Now you have a dictionary where column 1 of your file acts as key and
column 2 is the value.

Now to the check
You should give a little example first what you exactly like to achieve
otherwise it's not easy to help you.


   Karl
--=20
Please do *not* send copies of replies to me.
I read the list


_______________________________________________
Tutor maillist  -  Tutor@python.org
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor


------------------------------------------------------------------------=
----
---
This verifies that this e-mail has been scanned for virus and deemed
virus-free=20
according to F-secure Content Scanner 5.0
Fri, 18 Jul 2003 17:11:59 +0200 GMT
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----
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From godoy@metalab.unc.edu  Mon Jul 21 11:46:02 2003
From: godoy@metalab.unc.edu (Jorge Godoy)
Date: Mon Jul 21 10:46:02 2003
Subject: [Tutor] Best approach to sort data based on several criteria
Message-ID: 

Hi.


I have a huge amount of data that's stored in a file where each record
is in a line made of 22 columns, and each column is separated from the
other by a ';'. 

I need to show this data (some columns each time) sorted out
accordingly to some columns (e.g. columns zero, one, five and six,
each on a different view and in one of these views, I need to sort
based on multiple keys).

What's the best way to handle this situation? 

I thought about splitting these columns and sorting them, but maybe
there's a more efficient way... 

Not to mention that some columns are strings and other are dates or
numbers.


TIA,
-- 
Godoy.     


From Adam Vardy   Mon Jul 21 11:58:10 2003
From: Adam Vardy  (Adam Vardy)
Date: Mon Jul 21 10:58:10 2003
Subject: [Tutor] where to buy python books in phoenix az
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <17296451875.20030721122628@roadrunner.nf.net>

Friday, July 18, 2003, 9:24:36 AM, you wrote:

>> i have been looking all over phoenix for python books.=A0 i dont have
>> a credit card so that prohibits online purchases.=A0

There are a lot of online bookstores. But anyway, take Amazon.com for
example. Here is their payment types they accept page:
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/browse/-/513058/ref=3Dhp_hp_ls_2_4/1=
02-1503671-1058532

Not terribly restricting.

>> can anyone tell
>> me a good bookstore=A0 for computerbooks in phoenix.=A0

I'm not near there, so someone in that area can comment.

>>  i have been
>> directed to zooology every time i ask for python books at the major
>> chains, and for b daltons sake i wont tell the name that when i
>> said "its a computer language like java" they led me to cooking
>> books.=A0

:-)

>>  i wish programming was as easy to learn as making coffee.=A0
>> one scoop, a pot of water, and let the machine do the rest.=A0 if
>> anyone knows where i can get the books with cash (or a self
>> programming and teaching computer, just kidding before i get told
>> the obviouse)

hmmm.. if you look up computer lessons on various topics, sometimes
you find that you can get videos, or CD's with lessons on programming
language x or whatever topic. Maybe it might say live videos from some
expert, or interactive lessons.  So maybe you find it on a website or
in a magazine. But, you always seemed to find this in one of two
forms. Either it was real cheap, or it was terribly expensive.  Like
maybe $800 US for a few CD's, or a few VHS videos.  And often, it
seemed like it could just be covering the same topics in some book.
And then, other times you might locate something like 1001 interactive
lessons on C++ on a CD, plus 200 other topics, CD for $10.

You might suppose that there's stuff out there of that type that would
benefit some, differently than reading prose. But more often it's too
much to spend to find out what is out there may actually consist of.

--=20
Adam Vardy



From qsc@icon.co.za  Mon Jul 21 12:21:56 2003
From: qsc@icon.co.za (Quentin)
Date: Mon Jul 21 11:21:56 2003
Subject: [Tutor] Best approach to sort data based on several criteria
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <3F1C04B1.9000907@icon.co.za>

OK, I am not going to give you a Python answer, but some ways to 
consider, I've done similar things the past few months (I used VB, and 
hope to do it with Python in the future):
Main thing I would do is to convert the file into a data base. This will 
give you so much more control over reading and editing the data. And so 
much easier to program an app to read and sort a database than a large 
text file. I use MySQL database (another opensource project, and it is 
also supported by Python).
You can use MySQL admin to create a data base and then write a small 
Python app to read your file data in. ( you can even use Python to 
create a database direct).

If you are not to up too speed with Python (like me) you can:
Use a spreadsheet program to open the (txt, I presume, or CSV) file and 
set it to parse your data into spreadsheet columns based on the 
deliminator (You said ";"), then, either:
1. Export it direct to a database.
2. Save it as a text file that MySQL will understand and use to import data.
Read the MySQL tutorial that is in the docs, and you will understand a 
lot of what I've said.
http://www.mysql.com/

Quentin



From bgailer@alum.rpi.edu  Mon Jul 21 12:58:02 2003
From: bgailer@alum.rpi.edu (Bob Gailer)
Date: Mon Jul 21 11:58:02 2003
Subject: [Tutor] Best approach to sort data based on several
 criteria
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <5.2.1.1.0.20030721095208.058f9af0@66.28.54.253>

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At 11:44 AM 7/21/2003 -0300, Jorge Godoy wrote:
>I have a huge amount of data
>[snip]
>I need to show this data (some columns each time) sorted out
>accordingly to some columns (e.g. columns zero, one, five and six,
>each on a different view and in one of these views, I need to sort
>based on multiple keys).

Consider using the sqlite database. Unlike most other RDBMS, sqlite is 
loaded as part of your python session, so is very fast.
http://www.sqlite.org for the database.
http://pysqlite.sourceforge.net/ for the Python wrapper.

Bob Gailer
bgailer@alum.rpi.edu
303 442 2625


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At 11:44 AM 7/21/2003 -0300, Jorge Godoy wrote:


I have a huge amount of data 

[snip]

I need to show this data (some columns each time) sorted out

accordingly to some columns (e.g. columns zero, one, five and six,

each on a different view and in one of these views, I need to sort

based on multiple keys).


Consider using the sqlite database. Unlike most other RDBMS, sqlite is
loaded as part of your python session, so is very fast.

http://www.sqlite.org
for the database.

http://pysqlite.sourceforge.net/ for the Python wrapper.



Bob Gailer

bgailer@alum.rpi.edu

303 442 2625





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Version: 6.0.500 / Virus Database: 298 - Release Date: 7/10/2003

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From rick@niof.net  Mon Jul 21 13:00:03 2003
From: rick@niof.net (Rick Pasotto)
Date: Mon Jul 21 12:00:03 2003
Subject: [Tutor] Best approach to sort data based on several criteria
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <20030721160243.GR26665@niof.net>

On Mon, Jul 21, 2003 at 11:44:44AM -0300, Jorge Godoy wrote:
> 
> Hi.
> 
> I have a huge amount of data that's stored in a file where each record
> is in a line made of 22 columns, and each column is separated from the
> other by a ';'. 
> 
> I need to show this data (some columns each time) sorted out
> accordingly to some columns (e.g. columns zero, one, five and six,
> each on a different view and in one of these views, I need to sort
> based on multiple keys).
> 
> What's the best way to handle this situation? 
> 
> I thought about splitting these columns and sorting them, but maybe
> there's a more efficient way... 
> 
> Not to mention that some columns are strings and other are dates or
> numbers.

As another poster said, the easiest way is to convert to a database.
For that you might want to consider SQLite. There's a python module.

http://sourceforge.net/projects/pysqlite/

This would be much simpler and more portable than the heavier duty
databases like MySql.

On the other hand, awk may be all you need! :-)

-- 
"If you speak the truth, have a foot in the stirrup."
		-- Turkish proverb
    Rick Pasotto    rick@niof.net    http://www.niof.net


From godoy@metalab.unc.edu  Mon Jul 21 13:03:03 2003
From: godoy@metalab.unc.edu (Jorge Godoy)
Date: Mon Jul 21 12:03:03 2003
Subject: [Tutor] Best approach to sort data based on several criteria
In-Reply-To: <3F1C04B1.9000907@icon.co.za> (qsc@icon.co.za's message of
 "Mon, 21 Jul 2003 17:20:17 +0200")
References:  <3F1C04B1.9000907@icon.co.za>
Message-ID: 

Quentin  writes:

> OK, I am not going to give you a Python answer, but some ways to

Thank you. I'm not willing to loose all the fun doing things
myself. Any indications on what I can read or how's the most effective
pythonic way of doing things is great. 

> consider, I've done similar things the past few months (I used VB, and
> hope to do it with Python in the future):
> Main thing I would do is to convert the file into a data base. This
> will give you so much more control over reading and editing the
> data. And so much easier to program an app to read and sort a database
> than a large text file. I use MySQL database (another opensource
> project, and it is also supported by Python).

I'm going to do that later with the database, but this is just a
temporary solution until we have the definitive thing
implemented. There we are using PostgreSQL. 

> You can use MySQL admin to create a data base and then write a small
> Python app to read your file data in. ( you can even use Python to
> create a database direct).

I was considering that -- in the very beginning --, but I'm not
willing to use it if it can be avoided. On the other hand, using a
database will solve a lot of problems and it can do the hard job on
sorting and all the rest to me... 


I'll reconsider using it. Maybe my quick hack will be a bit more
elaborated than I was willing... 


Thanks again,
-- 
Godoy.     


From godoy@metalab.unc.edu  Mon Jul 21 13:06:42 2003
From: godoy@metalab.unc.edu (Jorge Godoy)
Date: Mon Jul 21 12:06:42 2003
Subject: [Tutor] Best approach to sort data based on several criteria
In-Reply-To: <5.2.1.1.0.20030721095208.058f9af0@66.28.54.253> (Bob Gailer's
 message of "Mon, 21 Jul 2003 09:55:49 -0600")
References: <5.2.1.1.0.20030721095208.058f9af0@66.28.54.253>
Message-ID: 

Bob Gailer  writes:

> Consider using the sqlite database. Unlike most other RDBMS, sqlite is
> loaded as part of your python session, so is very fast.
> http://www.sqlite.org for the database.
> http://pysqlite.sourceforge.net/ for the Python wrapper.

This seems to be the best approach as recommended before and since I
can let the database handle all the data sorting... This has the
increased advantage of having a Windows port --- that's where my
temporary solution will run. 


Thanks for the links.

-- 
Godoy.     


From cybersamurai@mac.com  Mon Jul 21 14:00:05 2003
From: cybersamurai@mac.com (Luiz Siqueira Neto)
Date: Mon Jul 21 13:00:05 2003
Subject: [Tutor] importing modules
Message-ID: <200307211400.15463.cybersamurai@mac.com>

How can I import modules inside of a directory in a root of my project?

in java I use import dir.package.*


From glingl@aon.at  Mon Jul 21 14:09:05 2003
From: glingl@aon.at (Gregor Lingl)
Date: Mon Jul 21 13:09:05 2003
Subject: [Tutor] Re: newbie question
Message-ID: <3F1C1E78.5080106@aon.at>

Hi Jan!

Two short remarks to your problems:

(1)

>But here I get only one dictionary item for both:
>
>
>Kjeu
>
>And=20
>
>Kjeu I
>

You get this because here line is "kjeu I        984"
and thus line.split() has three items:

>>> line ="kjeu I        984"
>>> line.split()
['kjeu', 'I', '984']
>>> 

One way to handle this problem could be:

>>> line.rfind(" ")
13
>>> sep = line.rfind(" ")
>>> line[:sep]
'kjeu I       '
>>> line[:sep].strip()
'kjeu I'
>>> line[sep:]
' 984'
>>> line[sep:].strip()
'984'
>>> table = {}
>>> table[line[:sep].strip()] = line[sep:].strip()
>>> table
{'kjeu I': '984'}
>>> 

(2)

>When I print out the M=E9g post I get M\xe9g , how can I deal with =
>this? This
>might not a problem if only the output to the new file is ok.

>>> print "M\xe9g"
Még
>>> ord("\xe9")
233

This shows, that "\xe9" is the internal (hex-) representation of
a character with ascii-code > 127, namely an e with some accent
and ascii-code 233.

If you feed it directly into a print-statement it will be displayed 
correctly.

HTH
Gregor


















From dyoo@hkn.eecs.berkeley.edu  Mon Jul 21 14:37:19 2003
From: dyoo@hkn.eecs.berkeley.edu (Danny Yoo)
Date: Mon Jul 21 13:37:19 2003
Subject: [Tutor] Re: [quicky intro to vector search engines]
In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.2.20030709164311.00bb5e58@mail.poulpe.net>
Message-ID: 


On Sun, 20 Jul 2003, Alexandre Ratti wrote:

> Vector search engines looked fun; I just had to give it a try :-) I
> uploaded a basic implementation to:
>
> http://www.gabuzomeu.net/alex/py/vsse/SearchEngine.zip


Hi Alexandre,


Very cool; I will have to take a look at this!



>  >>> app.search("beowulf cluster", 0.1)
> Searching in 304 files...
> ---------------------
> Beowulf-HOWTO.txt 34.56%
> SSI-UML-HOWTO.txt 26.92%
> openMosix-HOWTO.txt 18.16%
> Cluster-HOWTO.txt 12.80%
> Parallel-Processing-HOWTO.txt 11.69%
> CPU-Design-HOWTO.txt 10.59%
>
> Memory usage is quite high (about 100 MB for the PythonWin process).
> When saving the index instance to a file as a binary pickle, the file is
> quite large too (70 MB).


I've been reading a little more about Maciej Ceglowski's work on vector
search engines; I've been collecting some of my notes here:

    http://hkn.eecs.berkeley.edu/~dyoo/python/svd/

The "Latent Semantic Analysis" technique that Maciej briefly mentions at
the end of his article talks about ways of compressing the vector space
using some vector techniques.  At the moment, I don't yet feel comfortable
enough with the linear algebra to understand SVD yet, but I can collect
links pretty well.  *grin* If I have time, I'll see if I can cook up a
wrapper module for SVDPACK.



Talk to you later!



From DORSEY_EDMUND_K@LILLY.COM  Mon Jul 21 16:38:01 2003
From: DORSEY_EDMUND_K@LILLY.COM (DORSEY_EDMUND_K@LILLY.COM)
Date: Mon Jul 21 15:38:01 2003
Subject: [Tutor] File reading problem
Message-ID: 

This is a multipart message in MIME format.
--=_alternative 006BB95605256D6A_=
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

I'm trying to read in some files and for some reason python keeps telling 
me  IOError: [Errno 2] No such file or directory: 'c:\\models\tiny.vff'

The code is as follows

from vffReader import *
from vffWriter import *
import array as A

reader = vffReader()
reader.readFile(filename = "c:\models\tiny.vff")
writer = vffWriter(reader.getHeader(), reader.getData())
writer.write(filename = "c:\models\tiny_out.vff")
print "Done"


The odd thing is if I change the code to the below it works.  The only 
difference is which file I try to open.  (This is how I ran the program 
originally before changing the file to the above)

from vffReader import *
from vffWriter import *
import array as A

reader = vffReader()
reader.readFile(filename = "c:\models\super_tiny.vff") #different file 
name
writer = vffWriter(reader.getHeader(), reader.getData())
writer.write(filename = "c:\models\super_tiny_out.vff") #different file 
name
print "Done"

The above works okay.  Both tiny.vff and super_tiny.vff exist.  I'm 
staring at them in windows explorer and I can even open both of them.  Why 
can python find one but it can't find the other.  I originally programmed 
it with super_tiny but wanted to change it to a different file.  Thats 
when the problem arose.  Thanks for any help. 
--=_alternative 006BB95605256D6A_=
Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii"



I'm trying to read in some files and for some reason python keeps telling me  IOError: [Errno 2] No such file or directory: 'c:\\models\tiny.vff'



The code is as follows



from vffReader import *

from vffWriter import *

import array as A



reader = vffReader()

reader.readFile(filename = "c:\models\tiny.vff")

writer = vffWriter(reader.getHeader(), reader.getData())

writer.write(filename = "c:\models\tiny_out.vff")

print "Done"





The odd thing is if I change the code to the below it works.  The only difference is which file I try to open.  (This is how I ran the program originally before changing the file to the above)



from vffReader import *

from vffWriter import *

import array as A



reader = vffReader()

reader.readFile(filename = "c:\models\super_tiny.vff") #different file name

writer = vffWriter(reader.getHeader(), reader.getData())

writer.write(filename = "c:\models\super_tiny_out.vff") #different file name

print "Done"



The above works okay.  Both tiny.vff and super_tiny.vff exist.  I'm staring at them in windows explorer and I can even open both of them.  Why can python find one but it can't find the other.  I originally programmed it with super_tiny but wanted to change it to a different file.  Thats when the problem arose.  Thanks for any help. 
--=_alternative 006BB95605256D6A_=--


From jeff@ccvcorp.com  Mon Jul 21 17:08:08 2003
From: jeff@ccvcorp.com (Jeff Shannon)
Date: Mon Jul 21 16:08:08 2003
Subject: [Tutor] File reading problem
References: 
Message-ID: <3F1C483C.7040402@ccvcorp.com>

DORSEY_EDMUND_K@LILLY.COM wrote:

>
> I'm trying to read in some files and for some reason python keeps 
> telling me  IOError: [Errno 2] No such file or directory: 
> 'c:\\models\tiny.vff' 


You need to escape your backslashes.  '\t' is a tab, not a backslash and 
the letter 't'.  It works with the super_tiny.vff file, because \s (like 
\m) happens to not indicate a control character.

You can fix this by changing this line (and any other lines that use 
filenames):

> reader.readFile(filename = "c:\models\tiny.vff")


to look like either one of the following:

reader.readFile(filename = "c:\\models\\tiny.vff")
reader.readFile(filename = r"c:\models\tiny.vff")
reader.readFile(filename = "c:/models/tiny.vff")

In the first one, I've used double backslashes.  This indicates that the 
backslash should be interpreted literally, rather than potentially 
interpreted as a control character.

In the second one, I've preceded the string with an 'r', which indicates 
that this is to be a raw string.  In raw strings, no control character 
interpretation is done.

In the last case, I've used forward slashes instead of backslashes. 
 This isn't Windows-standard, but it will work for (AFAIK) every system 
call that's passed through Python.  (It doesn't work in the Windows 
command shell, but it works pretty much everywhere else.)

You can also import the os module and use os.path.join() to construct 
your filename.

Jeff Shannon
Technician/Programmer
Credit International




From alan.gauld@blueyonder.co.uk  Mon Jul 21 17:38:02 2003
From: alan.gauld@blueyonder.co.uk (Alan Gauld)
Date: Mon Jul 21 16:38:02 2003
Subject: [Tutor] pcm -> seconds
References: <20030720151958.3d5eb267.andi@buxach.de><004001c34ef8$303d1030$6401a8c0@xp> <20030721133710.45766692.andi@buxach.de>
Message-ID: <008101c34fc7$d7ba8fc0$6401a8c0@xp>

> The raw pcm stream is 44.1 kHz 16bit stereo, which means 176400
bytes
> (44100*16*2/8) are one second.

So it isn't MP3 then. That's CD type sound but in your message you
referred to MP3 which is compressed...

Alan G.



From vvernon@earthlink.net  Mon Jul 21 18:15:02 2003
From: vvernon@earthlink.net (Vernon Miller)
Date: Mon Jul 21 17:15:02 2003
Subject: [Tutor] read, write to file
Message-ID: <002e01c34fdd$e08539a0$859780d1@net>

I spend all day trying to get this to work

f=open('C:/Python22/Tools/tmp/workfile.txt', 'w')
f.write('This is the first line of the file')

after it finally seemed to work I tried to read the line with readline()

What I got was several hundred lines of x's and o's, but nothing was written
to the file

last week I went through the same thing and after rebooting several times it
finally decided to work, it seems to me that there is something
fundamentally wrong with the read, write to file functions in this latest
version of python.

Vernon Miller
vvernon@earthlink.net



From vicki@thepenguin.org  Mon Jul 21 18:22:52 2003
From: vicki@thepenguin.org (Vicki Stanfield)
Date: Mon Jul 21 17:22:52 2003
Subject: [Tutor] General object-oriented procedure question
Message-ID: <27794.206.53.226.4.1058542773.squirrel@www.thepenguin.org>

I have a program that has several classes, each with multiple functions
defined. I have mapped my way through enough to basically understand the
flow of things, but I am not sure what happens when it finishes the
mainloop (standard garden-variety mainloop). Say for instance that one of
the classes includes a button that I press to initiate some sequence of
activities. I finish the sequence fine, but then I get back to the class
and the program hangs. I have a pulldown menu which includes an exit, and
that works, but what if I simply want to end after the button activity
ceases. How do I do that? I've inserted print statements after the
mainloop call, but they are never reached unless I exit from the menu. I
need to add something to the end of the mainloop to end when finished, but
I am unsure where to insert it or exactly what to insert. I tried "return
true", but that didn't work.

--vicki







From alex@caustic-creations.com  Mon Jul 21 18:23:12 2003
From: alex@caustic-creations.com (Alex from Caustic Creations)
Date: Mon Jul 21 17:23:12 2003
Subject: [Tutor] Stopping a loop with user input in curses
Message-ID: <1058652249.1685.0.camel@caustic.laptop>

Hello all,

I've written a small clock program in curses that I would
like to have end when someone presses 'q'. I've included the
code below. I'm *very* new to python so I apologize in advance if
this seems like a horribly obvious problem. I've spent all day
trying various structures but none of them have worked out.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,

Alex


#! /usr/bin/python

# Import curses module

import curses, time
stdscr = curses.initscr()

def theClock():
	
    # Define global colour scheme
    curses.init_pair(1, curses.COLOR_WHITE, curses.COLOR_BLUE)
	
    # Get the screen size
    max_y, max_x = stdscr.getmaxyx()
	
    # Calculate the clock position relative to the screen size
    clock_x = max_x - 28 
	
    # Draw the clock
    clockWindow = curses.newwin(3, 26, 1, clock_x)
    clockWindow.bkgd(' ', curses.color_pair(1))
    clockWindow.box()
    clockWindow.refresh()

    while 1:
        t = time.asctime()
        clockWindow.addstr(1, 1, t)
        clockWindow.refresh()
        time.sleep(1)


def main(stdscr):

    # Bring up the clock function

    theClock()

    # If 'q' is pressed, exit
    while 2:
    c = stdscr.getch()
    if c == ord('q'):
            curses.beep()
            break


if __name__ == '__main__':
    curses.wrapper(main)



From anna@aleax.it  Mon Jul 21 18:23:38 2003
From: anna@aleax.it (Anna Ravenscroft)
Date: Mon Jul 21 17:23:38 2003
Subject: [Tutor] mailman on website
Message-ID: <200307201523.22803.anna@aleax.it>

Does anyone here know how to get mailman setup on a website? We're trying to 
do it for a non-profit community group and feeling very overwhelmed.... I 
realize this is only peripherally python=related but I hang out here and I 
know folks here so I'm hoping someone can help...

If anyone has experience on this, let me know what we would do as a first 
step... 

Um - we have a website, that is on a server donated by someone in the group. 
We ftp files there for the website. Does the owner of the server machine have 
to install mailman? or can we somehow do it ourselves? and how do we set up  
our list? 

HELP?!

Thank you.

Anna


From alex@caustic-creations.com  Mon Jul 21 18:24:04 2003
From: alex@caustic-creations.com (Alex from Caustic Creations)
Date: Mon Jul 21 17:24:04 2003
Subject: [Tutor] Flat file to associative array...
Message-ID: <1058773486.1145.1.camel@caustic.laptop>

Hello,

What would be the best way to convert a flat file of products into
a multi-dimensional array? The flat file looks like this:

Beer|Molson|Dry|4.50
Beer|Molson|Export|4.50
Shot|Scotch|Macallan18|18.50
Shot|Regular|Jameson|3.00

I've managed to read the file properly and get the individual lines
into a list, but I've got to turn this list into something that can
be stored in memory like a dictionary / associative array so I can
properly display the data.

Here's the code I have so far:

[Code]
#! /usr/bin/python

import string

file = open("definitions", "r")
    
while 1:
    line = file.readline()
    if not line:
        break
    else:
        data = string.split(line, '|')
        item = dict([('product', data[0])])
        print "You want a " + item['product'] +
         ". What kind?  " + data[1] + " for $" +
        data[3] + " ... right?"

file.close()
[/Code]

Thanks in advance,

Alex




From dyoo@hkn.eecs.berkeley.edu  Mon Jul 21 18:35:15 2003
From: dyoo@hkn.eecs.berkeley.edu (Danny Yoo)
Date: Mon Jul 21 17:35:15 2003
Subject: [Tutor] read, write to file
In-Reply-To: <002e01c34fdd$e08539a0$859780d1@net>
Message-ID: 


On Mon, 21 Jul 2003, Vernon Miller wrote:

> I spend all day trying to get this to work
>
> f=open('C:/Python22/Tools/tmp/workfile.txt', 'w')
> f.write('This is the first line of the file')

Hi Vernon,


Oh!  Don't forget to close() the file.  This actually is important,
because some operating systems will delay from actually writing the bits
to disk until the file is explicitely closed.


With the fix, your code might look like this:

###
f = open('C:/Python22/Tools/tmp/workfile.txt', 'w')
f.write('This is the first line of the file')
f.close()
###


Hope this fixes the problem!



From mike@daboyz.org  Mon Jul 21 18:49:02 2003
From: mike@daboyz.org (Michael Barrett)
Date: Mon Jul 21 17:49:02 2003
Subject: [Tutor] importing modules
In-Reply-To: <200307211400.15463.cybersamurai@mac.com>
References: <200307211400.15463.cybersamurai@mac.com>
Message-ID: <20030721214719.GA86130@daboyz.org>

Assuming your project is in directory /path/to/project and the module is called 'mymodule.py' then you can do the following in your script:

import sys
sys.path.append('/path/to/project')

import mymodule

=====

Hope that helps.

On Mon, Jul 21, 2003 at 02:00:15PM -0300, Luiz Siqueira Neto wrote:
> How can I import modules inside of a directory in a root of my project?
> 
> in java I use import dir.package.*
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Tutor maillist  -  Tutor@python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor

-- 
     ________________________________________________________________________
                Mike Barrett | "We have veggie bacon, why don't we have
             mike@daboyz.org |  meat fruit?"
              www.daboyz.org |    -- My co-worker, Ben
     ------------------------+-----------------------------------------------


From mike@daboyz.org  Mon Jul 21 18:57:09 2003
From: mike@daboyz.org (Michael Barrett)
Date: Mon Jul 21 17:57:09 2003
Subject: [Tutor] Stopping a loop with user input in curses
In-Reply-To: <1058652249.1685.0.camel@caustic.laptop>
References: <1058652249.1685.0.camel@caustic.laptop>
Message-ID: <20030721215511.GB86130@daboyz.org>

It looks to me like the problem is that you call 'theClock' which has a while loop inside it that never ends.  I tried throwing your check for the button press of q in the while loop inside theClock but it looks like stdscr.getch() blocks until a button is pressed.  This is because you don't have it set in no_delay mode.  To set it in no_delay mode, use the nodelay method.

Here's my edit to your code that seems to do what you want.  No guarantee this is the best way to do it (i'm sure it's not) but it works for me.  Hope this helps:


#! /usr/bin/python

# Import curses module

import curses, time
stdscr = curses.initscr()

def theClock():
	
    # Define global colour scheme
    curses.init_pair(1, curses.COLOR_WHITE, curses.COLOR_BLUE)
	
    # Get the screen size
    max_y, max_x = stdscr.getmaxyx()
	
    # Calculate the clock position relative to the screen size
    clock_x = max_x - 28 
	
    # Draw the clock
    clockWindow = curses.newwin(3, 26, 1, clock_x)
    clockWindow.bkgd(' ', curses.color_pair(1))
    clockWindow.box()
    clockWindow.refresh()

    while 1:
        t = time.asctime()
        clockWindow.addstr(1, 1, t)
        clockWindow.refresh()
        stdscr.nodelay(1)
        c = stdscr.getch()
        if c == ord('q'):
            curses.beep()
            break
        time.sleep(1)


def main(stdscr):

    # Bring up the clock function

    theClock()

if __name__ == '__main__':
    curses.wrapper(main)


====
On Sat, Jul 19, 2003 at 06:04:10PM -0400, Alex from Caustic Creations wrote:
> Hello all,
> 
> I've written a small clock program in curses that I would
> like to have end when someone presses 'q'. I've included the
> code below. I'm *very* new to python so I apologize in advance if
> this seems like a horribly obvious problem. I've spent all day
> trying various structures but none of them have worked out.
> 
> Any help would be greatly appreciated.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Alex
> 
> 
> #! /usr/bin/python
> 
> # Import curses module
> 
> import curses, time
> stdscr = curses.initscr()
> 
> def theClock():
> 	
>     # Define global colour scheme
>     curses.init_pair(1, curses.COLOR_WHITE, curses.COLOR_BLUE)
> 	
>     # Get the screen size
>     max_y, max_x = stdscr.getmaxyx()
> 	
>     # Calculate the clock position relative to the screen size
>     clock_x = max_x - 28 
> 	
>     # Draw the clock
>     clockWindow = curses.newwin(3, 26, 1, clock_x)
>     clockWindow.bkgd(' ', curses.color_pair(1))
>     clockWindow.box()
>     clockWindow.refresh()
> 
>     while 1:
>         t = time.asctime()
>         clockWindow.addstr(1, 1, t)
>         clockWindow.refresh()
>         time.sleep(1)
> 
> 
> def main(stdscr):
> 
>     # Bring up the clock function
> 
>     theClock()
> 
>     # If 'q' is pressed, exit
>     while 2:
>     c = stdscr.getch()
>     if c == ord('q'):
>             curses.beep()
>             break
> 
> 
> if __name__ == '__main__':
>     curses.wrapper(main)
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Tutor maillist  -  Tutor@python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor

-- 
     ________________________________________________________________________
                Mike Barrett | "We have veggie bacon, why don't we have
             mike@daboyz.org |  meat fruit?"
              www.daboyz.org |    -- My co-worker, Ben
     ------------------------+-----------------------------------------------


From pythontutor@venix.com  Mon Jul 21 19:18:03 2003
From: pythontutor@venix.com (Lloyd Kvam)
Date: Mon Jul 21 18:18:03 2003
Subject: [Tutor] Stopping a loop with user input in curses
In-Reply-To: <1058652249.1685.0.camel@caustic.laptop>
References: <1058652249.1685.0.camel@caustic.laptop>
Message-ID: <3F1C6661.80400@venix.com>

You have two loops in your program.  The first begins:
	while 1:
and is in the theClock function.
This loop will continue forever (1 represents True).  To terminate this
loop you need a break within it.

The send loop is in the main body and begins:
	while 2:
This loop is NEVER executed because you are still executing the first
loop.

You need to move the getch() call into the first loop.  HOWEVER, this
will cause the loop to pause until a key is pressed which is not what
you want.  If you call nodelay(1), then getch() will no longer wait
for the keystroke.  However, now getch() will raise an exception if there
is no keystroke to "get".

The following should help:
     stdscr.nodelay(1) # do not wait for a key press
     while 1:
         t = time.asctime()
         clockWindow.addstr(1, 1, t)
         clockWindow.refresh()
	try:
	    c = stdscr.getch()
	    if c == ord('q'):
		curses.beep()
		break
	except : # might be stdscr.error
         	time.sleep(1)

Attempt stdscr.error for the exception name.  If that's wrong, Python
will give you a traceback with the correct name.

There's a tutorial at this link:

http://www.python.org/doc/howto/curses/curses.html

Alex from Caustic Creations wrote:

> Hello all,
> 
> I've written a small clock program in curses that I would
> like to have end when someone presses 'q'. I've included the
> code below. I'm *very* new to python so I apologize in advance if
> this seems like a horribly obvious problem. I've spent all day
> trying various structures but none of them have worked out.
....
> 

-- 
Lloyd Kvam
Venix Corp.
1 Court Street, Suite 378
Lebanon, NH 03766-1358

voice:	603-443-6155
fax:	801-459-9582



From jeff@ccvcorp.com  Mon Jul 21 19:32:01 2003
From: jeff@ccvcorp.com (Jeff Shannon)
Date: Mon Jul 21 18:32:01 2003
Subject: [Tutor] Stopping a loop with user input in curses
References: <1058652249.1685.0.camel@caustic.laptop> <3F1C6661.80400@venix.com>
Message-ID: <3F1C69D7.1050706@ccvcorp.com>

Lloyd Kvam wrote:

> The following should help:
>     stdscr.nodelay(1) # do not wait for a key press
>     while 1:
>         t = time.asctime()
>         clockWindow.addstr(1, 1, t)
>         clockWindow.refresh()
>     try:
>         c = stdscr.getch()
>         if c == ord('q'):
>         curses.beep()
>         break
>     except : # might be stdscr.error
>             time.sleep(1)


This isn't quite right -- as written, the 'try:' block won't be executed 
until *after* the 'while 1:' loop ends (i.e., never).  To fix this, the 
entire try/except segment needs to be indented to the same level as the 
rest of the loop contents, instead of the level of the while statement, 
i.e. :

    stdscr.nodelay(1) # do not wait for a key press
    while 1:
        t = time.asctime()
        clockWindow.addstr(1, 1, t)
        clockWindow.refresh()
        try:
            c = stdscr.getch()
            if c == ord('q'):
            curses.beep()
            break
        except : # might be stdscr.error
            time.sleep(1)

This may have been caused by a mailer error or some such, but 
indentation matters...

Jeff Shannon
Technician/Programmer
Credit International




From alan.gauld@blueyonder.co.uk  Mon Jul 21 19:49:02 2003
From: alan.gauld@blueyonder.co.uk (Alan Gauld)
Date: Mon Jul 21 18:49:02 2003
Subject: [Tutor] read, write to file
References: <002e01c34fdd$e08539a0$859780d1@net>
Message-ID: <00ca01c34fda$490931b0$6401a8c0@xp>

> f=open('C:/Python22/Tools/tmp/workfile.txt', 'w')
> f.write('This is the first line of the file')
>
> after it finally seemed to work I tried to read the line with
readline()

You don't show us that code so its hard to be sure, however you
should close the file between writing and reading, or if you open
it for both you need to remember to reset the file pointer back
to the beginning with f.seek(0), you might also need to force
the write with f.flush()

> What I got was several hundred lines of x's and o's, but nothing was
written
> to the file

Did you actually check the file by opening it in wordpad or
some other text editor? Or are you just assuming that because
you didn't see it in the output that it wasn't written?
If you checked in wordpad then its probably a missing close/flush().
If you only looked at the output it could be there but you
didn't reset the file pointer to the beginning...

> last week I went through the same thing and after rebooting several
times it
> finally decided to work,

This sounds like a missing flush/close issue, the OS eventually writes
the buffered data and one time you got lucky in your timing...


> it seems to me that there is something
> fundamentally wrong with the read, write to file functions in this
latest
> version of python.

Nope, all versions of Python(and most other languages) work
the same way with buffered file I/O. Its actually a good thing
because it significantly improves the speed of file operations,
but it does require a little bit of good housekeeping on occasion.

Alan G
Author of the Learn to Program web tutor
http://www.freenetpages.co.uk/hp/alan.gauld



From pythontutor@venix.com  Mon Jul 21 19:53:01 2003
From: pythontutor@venix.com (Lloyd Kvam)
Date: Mon Jul 21 18:53:01 2003
Subject: [Tutor] Stopping a loop with user input in curses
In-Reply-To: <3F1C69D7.1050706@ccvcorp.com>
References: <1058652249.1685.0.camel@caustic.laptop> <3F1C6661.80400@venix.com> <3F1C69D7.1050706@ccvcorp.com>
Message-ID: <3F1C6E77.30501@venix.com>

It looked OK on my screen, but it was a mixture of spaces and tabs.

(And again, I believe the try / except stuff is wrong.)
(And I still recommend "Python in a Nutshell")

Jeff Shannon wrote:
....
> This may have been caused by a mailer error or some such, but 
> indentation matters...

-- 
Lloyd Kvam
Venix Corp.
1 Court Street, Suite 378
Lebanon, NH 03766-1358

voice:	603-443-6155
fax:	801-459-9582



From glingl@aon.at  Mon Jul 21 19:55:01 2003
From: glingl@aon.at (Gregor Lingl)
Date: Mon Jul 21 18:55:01 2003
Subject: [Tutor] Get me out of the blue (help urgently needed!)
Message-ID: <3F1C6F8B.5030209@aon.at>

Hi!

The problem, that makes me angry, upset and depressed ocurred
for the first time, when I installed and tried to use Python 2.3 on a
Windows2000 machine.

It goes like this:

When I try to run a program from the new IDLE an error
occurs:

 Warning: HOME environment variable points to
 c:\epacris\tinyfugue\home
 but the path does not exist.
================================ RESTART ================================

At the same time Python seems to report this to ... hmmm ... to whom?
(Also annoying! I'd like to be informed about messages going from my
computer to whom ever ... Whoever it may be, the adressee willnot be
happy with error wessages like this. )

The situation on my machine is as follows:

I have an old installation of Windows NT on drive C. This I still use only
for very special purposes. Two or more years ago there  I had installed
"epacris", but I deleted it long ago.

Now I use an installation of Windows 2000 Prof on drive H, with Python
installed on drive I.

When I thought about the mentioned error, I had the idea that there was a
home environment variable in the old NT-installation pointing to 
"C:\epacris ... "
And indeed, it was. I deleted it. But the error didn't go away!

I tried to use regedit to search for "home" in the registry of both
installations, without success. (I am NOT an experienced user of
regedit!)

Now I have no clue of how to proceed. In the meantime the same error
was the reason, that the drpython-editor dosn't work. Searching for the
reason, I fond out, that:

 >>> os.path.expanduser("~")
'c:\\epacris\\tinyfugue\\home'
 >>>

I don't understand how this comes? I have no environment
variable HOME defined on both installations - or I don't know
how to locate them, if they are created automatically.
I don't even understand, why win2000, installed in H:
searches for something in C: ?

I believe, that this is a Windows-Problem, but it never
occured with any other program except of Python or
Python-apps.

Maybe there is a very simple solution to this. Maybe there
is a knowledgable women or man out there, who can help?

Or is it time to make a change,
just relax,
take it easy
...
and install Linux?

With very unhappy greetings
Gregor

P.S.: Next time I hope to be in a better mood  ;-(







From dyoo@hkn.eecs.berkeley.edu  Mon Jul 21 21:37:01 2003
From: dyoo@hkn.eecs.berkeley.edu (Danny Yoo)
Date: Mon Jul 21 20:37:01 2003
Subject: [Tutor] Get me out of the blue (help urgently needed!)
In-Reply-To: <3F1C6F8B.5030209@aon.at>
Message-ID: 


On Tue, 22 Jul 2003, Gregor Lingl wrote:

> Now I have no clue of how to proceed. In the meantime the same error
> was the reason, that the drpython-editor dosn't work. Searching for the
> reason, I fond out, that:
>
>  >>> os.path.expanduser("~")
> 'c:\\epacris\\tinyfugue\\home'


Hi Gregor,



Ok, let's just double check something... Ok, the guilty code is probably
in 'ntpath.py'.  Let's take a look.

###
def expanduser(path):
    """Expand ~ and ~user constructs.

    If user or $HOME is unknown, do nothing."""
    if path[:1] != '~':
        return path
    i, n = 1, len(path)
    while i < n and path[i] not in '/\\':
        i = i + 1
    if i == 1:
        if os.environ.has_key('HOME'):
            userhome = os.environ['HOME']
        elif not os.environ.has_key('HOMEPATH'):
            return path
        else:
            try:
                drive = os.environ['HOMEDRIVE']
            except KeyError:
                drive = ''
            userhome = join(drive, os.environ['HOMEPATH'])
    else:
        return path
    return userhome + path[i:]
###


Hmmm.  Not only does it look at HOME, but Python will try to go for
HOMEDRIVE and HOMEPATH too!  Wow, that's thorough.  *grin*


Gregor, can you drop down to the DOS prompt and try:

    echo $HOME
    echo $HOMEPATH
    echo $HOMEDRIVE

and tell us what you get?  I do get the feeling that there's some
lingering environmental variables in your NT installation that's doing
funny things.  Let's double check to see if those variables are
initialized.



> Or is it time to make a change, just relax, take it easy ...

Take it easy.  *grin*  Don't worry, we'll get to the bottom of this.


Good luck!



From shalehperry@comcast.net  Mon Jul 21 21:37:14 2003
From: shalehperry@comcast.net (Sean 'Shaleh' Perry)
Date: Mon Jul 21 20:37:14 2003
Subject: [Tutor] mailman on website
In-Reply-To: <200307201523.22803.anna@aleax.it>
References: <200307201523.22803.anna@aleax.it>
Message-ID: <200307211735.41010.shalehperry@comcast.net>

On Sunday 20 July 2003 06:23, Anna Ravenscroft wrote:
> Does anyone here know how to get mailman setup on a website? We're trying
> to do it for a non-profit community group and feeling very overwhelmed....
> I realize this is only peripherally python=related but I hang out here and
> I know folks here so I'm hoping someone can help...
>
> If anyone has experience on this, let me know what we would do as a first
> step...
>
> Um - we have a website, that is on a server donated by someone in the
> group. We ftp files there for the website. Does the owner of the server
> machine have to install mailman? or can we somehow do it ourselves? and how
> do we set up our list?
>

you have to have login access to the host.  If it is a Unix-like machine (Sun, 
BSD, Linux, etc) ssh will work.  However, if you do not know what you are 
doing the install can be tricky.  You might be better off paying them for the 
2 - 3 hours of time they are likely to charge you.



From shalehperry@comcast.net  Mon Jul 21 21:49:02 2003
From: shalehperry@comcast.net (Sean 'Shaleh' Perry)
Date: Mon Jul 21 20:49:02 2003
Subject: [Tutor] Flat file to associative array...
In-Reply-To: <1058773486.1145.1.camel@caustic.laptop>
References: <1058773486.1145.1.camel@caustic.laptop>
Message-ID: <200307211748.24799.shalehperry@comcast.net>

On Monday 21 July 2003 00:44, Alex from Caustic Creations wrote:
> Hello,
>
> What would be the best way to convert a flat file of products into
> a multi-dimensional array? The flat file looks like this:
>
> Beer|Molson|Dry|4.50
> Beer|Molson|Export|4.50
> Shot|Scotch|Macallan18|18.50
> Shot|Regular|Jameson|3.00
>

#!/usr/bin/python2.3

import csv

class PipeDialect(csv.Dialect):
    delimiter = '|'
    quotechar = '"'
    escapechar = None
    doublequote = True
    skipinitialspace = False
    lineterminator = '\n'
    quoting = csv.QUOTE_MINIMAL

csv.register_dialect('pipe-based', PipeDialect)

fp = open('/tmp/test.csv')
reader = csv.reader(fp, 'pipe-based')

for row in reader:
    print row

why right parsers when you don't have to (-:
As for the real question you asked, just play arond a little more, you'll get 
it.



From tutor@python.org  Mon Jul 21 22:52:02 2003
From: tutor@python.org (Tim Peters)
Date: Mon Jul 21 21:52:02 2003
Subject: [Tutor] Get me out of the blue (help urgently needed!)
In-Reply-To: <3F1C6F8B.5030209@aon.at>
Message-ID: 

[Gregor Lingl]
> The problem, that makes me angry, upset and depressed ocurred
> for the first time, when I installed and tried to use Python 2.3 on a
> Windows2000 machine.
>
> It goes like this:
>
> When I try to run a program from the new IDLE an error
> occurs:
>
>  Warning: HOME environment variable points to
>  c:\epacris\tinyfugue\home
>  but the path does not exist.
> ================================ RESTART
> ================================

Use the source, Gregor.  Searching for HOME shows the source of this msg in
Lib/idlelib/configHandler.py.  The docstring for method GetUserCfgDir() is

        """
        Creates (if required) and returns a filesystem directory for
        storing user config files.
        """

That's all it's trying to do.

> At the same time Python seems to report this to ... hmmm ... to whom?

There's no such code anywhere near the bit that displays this warning.

> (Also annoying! I'd like to be informed about messages going from my
> computer to whom ever ... Whoever it may be, the adressee willnot be
> happy with error wessages like this. )

Why is it that you think IDLE is reporting this to someone?  Note that the
new IDLE *does* use sockets, but only on localhost.  It needs to do this in
order to implement the most-often requested of all features for IDLE:
running code in a separate process, in order to avoid unbreakable infinite
loops, and impossibly difficult by-hand reload() sequences.  Socket activity
may look like "network activity" to you (for example, if you're running
ZoneAlarm, it will ask whether you want to allow this traffic), but it's all
just your machine talking to itself.

These new (for IDLE) uses of sockets can be found in Lib/idlelib/PyShell.py.

> ...
> Or is it time to make a change,
> just relax,
> take it easy
> ...
> and install Linux?

IDLE will use sockets there too .



From glingl@aon.at  Tue Jul 22 03:41:01 2003
From: glingl@aon.at (Gregor Lingl)
Date: Tue Jul 22 02:41:01 2003
Subject: [Tutor] Get me out of the blue (help urgently needed!)
References: 
Message-ID: <3F1CDCCA.4050104@aon.at>

Danny Yoo schrieb:

>On Tue, 22 Jul 2003, Gregor Lingl wrote:
>
>  
>
>>'c:\\epacris\\tinyfugue\\home'
>>    
>>
>
>
>Hi Gregor,
>
>
>
>Ok, let's just double check something... Ok, the guilty code is probably
>in 'ntpath.py'.  Let's take a look.
>
>###
>def expanduser(path):
>    """Expand ~ and ~user constructs.
>
>    If user or $HOME is unknown, do nothing."""
>    ....
>###
>
>
>Hmmm.  Not only does it look at HOME, but Python will try to go for
>HOMEDRIVE and HOMEPATH too!  Wow, that's thorough.  *grin*
>
>
>Gregor, can you drop down to the DOS prompt and try:
>
>    echo $HOME
>    echo $HOMEPATH
>    echo $HOMEDRIVE
>
I tried this yesterday, and indeed at the DOS prompt HOME had the
value "C:\epacris....", although it didn't show up as an environment 
variable
in 'system' of the control panel any more.

I was not able to delete it, so I created a new (dummy - hmm?) directory
I:\home and

set HOME = I:\home

This now showed up in control panel's system. When I tried to delete it
there, it's old value was surprisingly and silently restored.

I can live with my new  HOME, and even if this in my view at first was
a "work-around", the new IDLE immediately used it to store it's .idlerc
directory and there it's recent file list.

So it turned out not only to be a workaround, but also useful.

Nevertheless I feel a bit uneasy, as this old HOME "C:\epacris\..." is 
apparently
stored somewhere in the system, and I can't find out where nor why it is
restored automatically when I delete the HOME environment variable.

>and tell us what you get?  I do get the feeling that there's some
>lingering environmental variables in your NT installation that's doing
>funny things.  
>
So you see, that your feelings meet exactly what's going on!

>Let's double check to see if those variables are
>initialized.
>  
>
>>Or is it time to make a change, just relax, take it easy ...
>>    
>>
>
>Take it easy.  *grin*  Don't worry, we'll get to the bottom of this.
>  
>
Hmmm..., I'm not sure if we'll really get to the VERY bottom of this

Many thanks for your quick response (indeed I feel better now)

Gregor

>
>Good luck!
>
>
>
>  
>






From glingl@aon.at  Tue Jul 22 03:55:03 2003
From: glingl@aon.at (Gregor Lingl)
Date: Tue Jul 22 02:55:03 2003
Subject: [Tutor] Get me out of the blue (help urgently needed!)
References: 
Message-ID: <3F1CE027.8040608@aon.at>

Tim Peters schrieb:

>[Gregor Lingl]
>  
>
>>The problem, that makes me angry, upset and depressed ocurred
>>for the first time, when I installed and tried to use Python 2.3 on a
>>Windows2000 machine.
>>
>>It goes like this:
>>
>>When I try to run a program from the new IDLE an error
>>occurs:
>>
>> Warning: HOME environment variable points to
>> c:\epacris\tinyfugue\home
>> but the path does not exist.
>>================================ RESTART
>>================================
>>    
>>
>
>Use the source, Gregor.  Searching for HOME shows the source of this msg in
>Lib/idlelib/configHandler.py.  The docstring for method GetUserCfgDir() is
>
>        """
>        Creates (if required) and returns a filesystem directory for
>        storing user config files.
>        """
>
>That's all it's trying to do.
>  
>
Yes, I see. The problem, however, lies apparently in the way window 
treats it's
environment variables.

>  
>
>>At the same time Python seems to report this to ... hmmm ... to whom?
>>    
>>
>
>There's no such code anywhere near the bit that displays this warning.
>  
>
Ah! This apparently was a bad shortcut ...

>>(Also annoying! I'd like to be informed about messages going from my
>>computer to whom ever ... Whoever it may be, the adressee willnot be
>>happy with error wessages like this. )
>>    
>>
>
>Why is it that you think IDLE is reporting this to someone?  Note that the
>new IDLE *does* use sockets, but only on localhost.  It needs to do this in
>order to implement the most-often requested of all features for IDLE:
>running code in a separate process, in order to avoid unbreakable infinite
>loops, and impossibly difficult by-hand reload() sequences.  Socket activity
>may look like "network activity" to you (for example, if you're running
>ZoneAlarm, it will ask whether you want to allow this traffic), but it's all
>just your machine talking to itself.
>  
>
I use Norton's Internet security and this reports:
I:\Python23\pythonw.exe is going to access the internet ...
(or something like this).
 
I apparently did misinterpret this. (For me this raises
the question, if it were impossible for programs like
ZoneAlarm, Norton's... etc, to find out (e.g. via the
IP adress) if such traffic is just adressing the own machine?)
 
So thanks, Tim, for your explanations.

Gregor

>These new (for IDLE) uses of sockets can be found in Lib/idlelib/PyShell.py.
>
>  
>
>>...
>>Or is it time to make a change,
>>just relax,
>>take it easy
>>...
>>and install Linux?
>>    
>>
>
>IDLE will use sockets there too .
>
>
>
>  
>






From thomi@thomi.imail.net.nz  Tue Jul 22 04:34:00 2003
From: thomi@thomi.imail.net.nz (Thomas CLive Richards)
Date: Tue Jul 22 03:34:00 2003
Subject: [Tutor] how to call "~wxDialog()" in python?
Message-ID: <20030722193304.2000ee2c.thomi@thomi.imail.net.nz>

Hey,


when trying to destroy a (WxWindows) window, I have to call a function
called "self.~wxDialog()" However, python complains about the '~'
character:

thomi@Julie:~/work/python sources/wxPython$ ./wedderburn.py
  File "./wedderburn.py", line 146
    EVT_BUTTON(self,ID_PREFS_CLOSEBUTTON,self.~wxDialog)
                                              ^
SyntaxError: invalid syntax


I tried escaping it with a '\' character, like you can do in some other
languages, but that didn't seem to work either. I also thought that
maybe the python wrapper to the wxWindows library had changed thename of
this function, but i couldn't see any mention of it in the latest
documentation.

ummm... "HELP!"...


I'm kinda stuck now..... *hides under desk*


thanks,

-- 

Thomi Richards,
thomi@thomi.imail.net.nz



From thomi@thomi.imail.net.nz  Tue Jul 22 04:46:02 2003
From: thomi@thomi.imail.net.nz (Thomas CLive Richards)
Date: Tue Jul 22 03:46:02 2003
Subject: [Tutor] how to call "~wxDialog()" in python?
In-Reply-To: <20030722193304.2000ee2c.thomi@thomi.imail.net.nz>
References: <20030722193304.2000ee2c.thomi@thomi.imail.net.nz>
Message-ID: <20030722194503.6afb3d3a.thomi@thomi.imail.net.nz>

I guess i should append to that:

I expected to see some kind of close method for things like dialog
boxes, but the documentation here:

http://www.lpthe.jussieu.fr/~zeitlin/wxWindows/docs/wxwin111.htm#topic189

doesn't mention there being any such thing. Am i using the wrong
documentation? or is it not complete? or (most likely) am I just a
complete Idiot ;)




-- 

Thomi Richards,
thomi@thomi.imail.net.nz



From dhanvik@gmx.net  Tue Jul 22 07:58:01 2003
From: dhanvik@gmx.net (K Dhanvi)
Date: Tue Jul 22 06:58:01 2003
Subject: [Tutor] Final de-allocation before the application exists
Message-ID: <00fe01c35040$6b8393a0$0d001eac@ud.cybage.com>

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

------=_NextPart_000_00F7_01C3506E.8240DF20
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi friends,=20
 =20
  I am developing an module where I allocate certain threads and memory =
in the module and an application would use this allocated resources. I =
would like to know whether Python provides any function which would be =
called at the end of the life cycle of the application or just before =
the application exits. =20
 =20
  I would like to know whether to know since,  I would like to hide this =
function in my module and not force the user to call the function. This =
would remove the dependency on the user to specifically call the =
function. Also if there is such a function , I can make sure that the my =
module resources are de-allocated gracefully.=20

    Please let me know incase this can be possible.

with regards,=20
K Dhanvi
------=_NextPart_000_00F7_01C3506E.8240DF20
Content-Type: text/html;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable









Hi friends, 


  


  I am developing an module where I allocate =
certain=20
threads and memory in the module and an application would use this=20
allocated resources. I would like to know whether Python provides =
any=20
function which would be called at the end of the life cycle of the=20
application or just before the application exits.  =



  


  I would like to know whether to know =
since, =20
I would like to hide this function in my module and not =
force the=20
user to call the function. This would remove the dependency on the =
user to=20
specifically call the function. Also if there is such a function , I can =
make=20
sure that the my module resources are de-allocated gracefully.=20



 


    Please let me know incase this can be=20
possible.


 


with regards, 
K=20
Dhanvi


------=_NextPart_000_00F7_01C3506E.8240DF20--



From dhanvik@gmx.net  Tue Jul 22 08:26:02 2003
From: dhanvik@gmx.net (K Dhanvi)
Date: Tue Jul 22 07:26:02 2003
Subject: [Tutor] Final de-allocation before the application exists
References: <00fe01c35040$6b8393a0$0d001eac@ud.cybage.com>
Message-ID: <011801c35044$533cfd50$0d001eac@ud.cybage.com>

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

------=_NextPart_000_0115_01C35072.6A148790
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Sorry about my english in the previous mail.=20

I re-state my question in this mail :=20

  I would like to know whether Python has a function which would be =
called just before the end of the application. I cannot use destructors =
in my application because I have some static data in my application that =
is modified during the life cycle of the application.  If I have any =
function like this , then I could hide the gory details of de-allocation =
of resources completely from the user. This way, what he ( user ) does =
not know, he need not be bothered about :)..=20
  ( I am allocating the resources and threads in my module which is used =
by an application. I would like to de-allocate resources in the =
application  )

well thats my query.. incase theres something I am missing in my =
approach please point me out .. thanks a lot for your time and help.

with regards,=20
K Dhanvi
  ----- Original Message -----=20
  From: K Dhanvi=20
  To: tutor@python.org=20
  Sent: Tuesday, July 22, 2003 4:30 PM
  Subject: [Tutor] Final de-allocation before the application exists


  Hi friends,=20
   =20
    I am developing an module where I allocate certain threads and =
memory in the module and an application would use this allocated =
resources. I would like to know whether Python provides any function =
which would be called at the end of the life cycle of the application or =
just before the application exits. =20
   =20
    I would like to know whether to know since,  I would like to hide =
this function in my module and not force the user to call the function. =
This would remove the dependency on the user to specifically call the =
function. Also if there is such a function , I can make sure that the my =
module resources are de-allocated gracefully.=20

      Please let me know incase this can be possible.

  with regards,=20
  K Dhanvi
------=_NextPart_000_0115_01C35072.6A148790
Content-Type: text/html;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable









Sorry about my english in the previous mail. =



 


I re-state my question in this mail : 


 


  I would like to know whether Python has a =
function=20
which would be called just before the end of the application. I cannot =
use=20
destructors in my application because I have some static data in my =
application=20
that is modified during the life cycle of the application.  If I =
have any=20
function like this , then I could hide the gory details of de-allocation =
of=20
resources completely from the user. This way, what he ( =
user ) does=20
not know, he need not be bothered about :).. 


  ( I am allocating the resources and threads =
in my=20
module which is used by an application. I would like to de-allocate =

resources in the application  )


 


well thats my query.. incase theres something I am =
missing in=20
my approach please point me out .. thanks a lot for your time and=20
help.


 


with regards, 
K Dhanvi



  
----- Original Message ----- 

  From:=20
  K =
Dhanvi 
  
  
Sent: Tuesday, July 22, 2003 =
4:30=20
PM

  
Subject: [Tutor] Final =
de-allocation=20
  before the application exists

  


  
Hi friends, 

  
  

  
  I am developing an module where I allocate =
certain=20
  threads and memory in the module and an application would use =
this=20
  allocated resources. I would like to know whether Python provides =
any=20
  function which would be called at the end of the life cycle of =
the=20
  application or just before the application exits.  =


  
  

  
  I would like to know whether to know =
since, =20
  I would like to hide this function in my module and not =
force=20
  the user to call the function. This would remove the dependency =
on the=20
  user to specifically call the function. Also if there is such a =
function , I=20
  can make sure that the my module resources are de-allocated =
gracefully.=20
  

  
 

  
    Please let me know incase this can =
be=20
  possible.

  
 

  
with regards, 
K=20
Dhanvi


------=_NextPart_000_0115_01C35072.6A148790--



From klappnase@freenet.de  Tue Jul 22 08:29:02 2003
From: klappnase@freenet.de (klappnase)
Date: Tue Jul 22 07:29:02 2003
Subject: [Tutor] Problem recording large wav files with Snack
In-Reply-To: 
References: <20030717130738.4f09e98d.klappnase@freenet.de>
 
Message-ID: <20030722132933.3c3a99ac.klappnase@freenet.de>

On Thu, 17 Jul 2003 17:30:13 -0700 (PDT)
Danny Yoo  wrote:

> 
> 
> On Thu, 17 Jul 2003, klappnase wrote:
> 
> > I am trying to develop some little sound applications for linux using
> > the snack toolkit. (I am far from being a "professional" programmer, but
> > just a beginner).
> >
> > I want to record large files to disk (whole sides of vinyl albums), so I
> > do something like:
> >
> > s = tkSnack.Sound(encoding="Lin16", frequency=44100, channels=2,
> > fileformat="WAV", byteorder="littleEndian,\
> > 			precision="double", file="xyz.wav")
> > s.record()
> 
> 
> Hi klappnase,
> 
> 
> I'm not too familiar with the tkSnack module, and I'm not sure if any of
> us here can help diagnose the problem; it sounds more like an operating
> systems issue more than anything else.  you may want to contact Snack's
> author, according to:
> 
>     http://www.speech.kth.se/snack/FAQ.html
> 
Thanks, I think I'll should try that.
> 
> We can, at least, see Python syntax errors... *grin* Are you sure that's
> not missing a quote sign here?
> 
>          fileformat="WAV", byteorder="littleEndian,\
>                                      ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Oops!
Just a typo in the mail of course.
> 
> 
> [off-topic, sorta:
> 
>     If you are running on a Linux system, you may want to double check
>     that your hard drive is tuned to performance:
> 
>         http://linux.oreillynet.com/pub/a/linux/2000/06/29/hdparm.html
> 
>     Most Linux systems are very conservative in the way they use their
>     hard drives --- you may be running into a simple IO issue.
> ]
udma2, I think that should be sufficient, more is not possible anyway.
> 
> Good luck!
> 
Thanks again

Regards

Michael


From klappnase@freenet.de  Tue Jul 22 08:29:15 2003
From: klappnase@freenet.de (klappnase)
Date: Tue Jul 22 07:29:15 2003
Subject: [Tutor] Re: Using PMW?
In-Reply-To: <000601c34fde$cb9f61e0$0300a8c0@hobie3>
References: 
 <9a410299.0307191709.28fcbdf6@posting.google.com>
 <000601c34fde$cb9f61e0$0300a8c0@hobie3>
Message-ID: <20030722133006.3ace13a5.klappnase@freenet.de>

On Mon, 21 Jul 2003 16:21:20 -0700
"Ken Erickson"  wrote:


> One thing that I have noticed is that when I start the IDLE program and type
> "import pmw" I get:
> 
> >>> import pmw
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "", line 1, in ?
>     import pmw
> ImportError: No module named pmw

Seems like there is a typo here; the module's name Is Pmw.

> I did a search for "pmw.py" and found nothing on my system.  I'm new to
> Python so I'm not sure if I'm suppose to build this module or what?  Do you
> have any ideas?
> 
I have no such file, too; I must admit that I don't know much about Pmw, but that is obviousliy o.k.
The best you try it again with "import Pmw" and see what happens.

Regards

Michael



From godoy@metalab.unc.edu  Tue Jul 22 08:41:01 2003
From: godoy@metalab.unc.edu (Jorge Godoy)
Date: Tue Jul 22 07:41:01 2003
Subject: [Tutor] how to call "~wxDialog()" in python?
In-Reply-To: <20030722193304.2000ee2c.thomi@thomi.imail.net.nz> (Thomas
 CLive Richards's message of "Tue, 22 Jul 2003 19:33:04 +1200")
References: <20030722193304.2000ee2c.thomi@thomi.imail.net.nz>
Message-ID: 

Thomas CLive Richards  writes:

> when trying to destroy a (WxWindows) window, I have to call a function
> called "self.~wxDialog()" However, python complains about the '~'
> character:
>
> thomi@Julie:~/work/python sources/wxPython$ ./wedderburn.py
>   File "./wedderburn.py", line 146
>     EVT_BUTTON(self,ID_PREFS_CLOSEBUTTON,self.~wxDialog)
>                                               ^
> SyntaxError: invalid syntax

I use the following to close my dialogs:

======================================================================
class About(wxDialog):
    def __init__(self, *args, **kwds):
        # begin wxGlade: About.__init__
(...)
        self.button_4 = wxButton(self.panel_5, -1, "Fechar")
(...)
        # end wxGlade

(...)
        EVT_BUTTON(self, -1, self.OnExit)


(...)

   def OnExit(self, event):
        self.Close(True)
======================================================================

I.e., I let the only button on the dialog with the standard ID of '-1'
and associate it to a function 'OnExit' in the same class. 


See you,
-- 
Godoy.     


From Jan.Wilhelmsen@bilia.no  Tue Jul 22 11:02:22 2003
From: Jan.Wilhelmsen@bilia.no (Wilhelmsen Jan)
Date: Tue Jul 22 10:02:22 2003
Subject: [Tutor] sorting a 'large' datafile
Message-ID: <9DB3344EC407D311A0A500508B0963E401DE32DB@ex84701.cars.no.bilia.net>

This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand
this format, some or all of this message may not be legible.

------_=_NextPart_001_01C35059.8A329CB0
Content-Type: text/plain

I need to sort records in a datafile by specific positions in the file.
 
The records in the datafile look like this:
 
3000010711004943      200211052002110520021120015980050378
3000010711004943      200211052002110520021120015980050378
3200010711004943      200211052002110520021120015980050378
3100010711004943      200211052002110520021120015980050378
3000010711004943      200211052002110520021120015980050378
3000014211015894      200211052002110520021205030700161    
3200014211015894      000000000451606+24             BD30599

3200014211015894      000000000158000+24             BD30599

3200014211015894      000000000033600+24             BD30599

3200014211015894      000000000025900+24             BD30599

3100014211015894      000000000038400+24             BD30599

 
I've created two variables for the fields I want to sort by:
 
        rt = line[:2]
        dok = line[6:16]
 
First I want to sort by 'dok' then by 'rt'.
 
Do I have to read the whole file into memory before I can begin sorting the
records?
 
I tried to read in all the lines but everything crashes when I do.
 
The file is only 250kb so this should be possibly, or I'm I wrong?
 
Can anyone give me some tips?
 
Thanks in advance
 
Jan Wilhelmsen
IT-Technician
Bilia Personbil as
 


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Tue, 22 Jul 2003 15:59:59 +0200 GMT
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------_=_NextPart_001_01C35059.8A329CB0
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I need to sort records in=
 a datafile by specific positions in the file.



 <=
/font>



The records in the datafile look like this:



 <=
/font>



3000010711004943     
200211052002110520021120015980050378



3000010711004943     
200211052002110520021120015980050378



3200010711004943     
200211052002110520021120015980050378



3100010711004943     
200211052002110520021120015980050378



3000010711004943     
200211052002110520021120015980050378



3000014211015894     
200211052002110520021205030700161    



3200014211015894     
000000000451606+24        =
    
BD30599        =
            




3200014211015894     
000000000158000+24        =
    
BD30599        =
            




3200014211015894     
000000000033600+24        =
    
BD30599        =
            




3200014211015894     
000000000025900+24        =
    
BD30599        =
            




3100014211015894     
000000000038400+24        =
    
BD30599    &nbs=
p;            &=
nbsp;  




 



I've created two variables
for the fields I want to sort by:



 <=
/font>



        rt =3D line[:2]=




        dok =3D line[6:16]



 <=
/font>



First I want to sort by '=
dok' then by 'rt'.



 <=
/font>



Do I have to read the who=
le
file into memory before I can begin sorting the records?<=
/font>



 <=
/font>



I tried to read in all th=
e lines
but everything crashes when I do.



 <=
/font>



The file is only 250kb so=
 this
should be possibly, or I'm I wrong?



 <=
/font>



Can anyone give me some t=
ips?



 <=
/font>



Thanks in advance



 <=
/font>



Jan
Wilhelmsen



IT-Tech=
nician



Bilia
Personbil as



 =










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free 

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------_=_NextPart_001_01C35059.8A329CB0--


From jeff@ccvcorp.com  Tue Jul 22 13:35:01 2003
From: jeff@ccvcorp.com (Jeff Shannon)
Date: Tue Jul 22 12:35:01 2003
Subject: [Tutor] how to call "~wxDialog()" in python?
References: <20030722193304.2000ee2c.thomi@thomi.imail.net.nz>
Message-ID: <3F1D6779.2070404@ccvcorp.com>

Thomas CLive Richards wrote:

> when trying to destroy a (WxWindows) window, I have to call a function
> called "self.~wxDialog()" However, python complains about the '~'
> character:
>
> thomi@Julie:~/work/python sources/wxPython$ ./wedderburn.py
> File "./wedderburn.py", line 146
> EVT_BUTTON(self,ID_PREFS_CLOSEBUTTON,self.~wxDialog)
> ^
> SyntaxError: invalid syntax


You're looking at the wxWindows docs, which are for C++.  As of yet, 
there aren't any wxPython-specific docs, just annotations in the C++ 
docs.  So, in many cases, it's necessary to translate the C++ in the 
docs into Python.  

In this particular case, the ~wxDialog() is a C++ destructor.  C++ 
requires you to specify exactly how to destroy an object and free any 
memory that it's allocated; in most cases Python handles that sort of 
thing for you.  So, you really *don't* need to call a destructor for 
Python.  The method that you need to call in order to destroy a wxPython 
window (whether frame, dialog, or whatever) is Destroy().  However, you 
probably want to do that from an OnClose() handler.  In your __init__() 
(or wherever you're hooking events), you'll want to add a line to hook 
EVT_CLOSE:

        EVT_CLOSE(self, self.OnCloseWindow)

The event handler for it is pretty simple:

    def OnCloseWindow(self, event):
        self.Destroy()
        return true

Now, anything that causes your window to close should go through this 
event, which is triggered by the Close() method on all wxWindows.  Thus, 
your above button event looks like this:

        EVT_BUTTON(self,ID_PREFS_CLOSEBUTTON,self.Close())

The real advantage here comes when there's something that needs done any 
time that you close the window; you can put that code in 
OnCloseWindow(), and it will be run regardless of the method used to 
close the window, whether it's by a button, from a menu, or from the 
close-button (the [X]) in the corner of the title bar.

Jeff Shannon
Technician/Programmer
Credit International




From bgailer@alum.rpi.edu  Tue Jul 22 13:41:49 2003
From: bgailer@alum.rpi.edu (Bob Gailer)
Date: Tue Jul 22 12:41:49 2003
Subject: [Tutor] sorting a 'large' datafile
In-Reply-To: <9DB3344EC407D311A0A500508B0963E401DE32DB@ex84701.cars.no.b
 ilia.net>
Message-ID: <5.2.1.1.0.20030722103639.0271a9f0@66.28.54.253>

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Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

At 03:59 PM 7/22/2003 +0200, Wilhelmsen Jan wrote:

>I need to sort records in a datafile by specific positions in the file.
>The records in the datafile look like this:
>
>3000010711004943      200211052002110520021120015980050378
>3000010711004943      200211052002110520021120015980050378
>3200010711004943      200211052002110520021120015980050378
>3100010711004943      200211052002110520021120015980050378
>3000010711004943      200211052002110520021120015980050378
>3000014211015894      200211052002110520021205030700161
>3200014211015894      000000000451606+24             BD30599 
>
>3200014211015894      000000000158000+24             BD30599 
>
>3200014211015894      000000000033600+24             BD30599 
>
>3200014211015894      000000000025900+24             BD30599 
>
>3100014211015894      000000000038400+24             BD30599 
>
>
>I've created two variables for the fields I want to sort by:
>         rt = line[:2]
>         dok = line[6:16]
>First I want to sort by 'dok' then by 'rt'.
>Do I have to read the whole file into memory before I can begin sorting 
>the records?
>I tried to read in all the lines but everything crashes when I do.
>The file is only 250kb so this should be possibly, or I'm I wrong?
>Can anyone give me some tips?

Consider using the sqlite database. It will handle large files and sort 
very efficiently.
http://www.sqlite.org for the database.
http://pysqlite.sourceforge.net/ for the Python wrapper.

Bob Gailer
bgailer@alum.rpi.edu
303 442 2625


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Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit



At 03:59 PM 7/22/2003 +0200, Wilhelmsen Jan wrote:



I need to
sort records in a datafile by specific positions in the file.

The records in the datafile look like this:



3000010711004943     
200211052002110520021120015980050378

3000010711004943     
200211052002110520021120015980050378

3200010711004943     
200211052002110520021120015980050378

3100010711004943     
200211052002110520021120015980050378

3000010711004943     
200211052002110520021120015980050378

3000014211015894     
200211052002110520021205030700161    

3200014211015894     
000000000451606+24            
BD30599                    


3200014211015894     
000000000158000+24            
BD30599                    


3200014211015894     
000000000033600+24            
BD30599                    


3200014211015894     
000000000025900+24            
BD30599                    


3100014211015894     
000000000038400+24            
BD30599                    




I've created two variables for the fields I
want to sort by:

        rt = line[:2]

        dok = line[6:16]

First I want to sort by 'dok' then by 'rt'.

Do I have to read the whole file into memory before I can begin sorting
the records?

I tried to read in all the lines but everything crashes when I do.

The file is only 250kb so this should be possibly, or I'm I wrong?

Can anyone give me some tips?


Consider using the sqlite database. It will handle large files and sort
very efficiently.

http://www.sqlite.org
for the database.

http://pysqlite.sourceforge.net/ for the Python wrapper.



Bob Gailer

bgailer@alum.rpi.edu

303 442 2625





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Version: 6.0.500 / Virus Database: 298 - Release Date: 7/10/2003

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From jeff@ccvcorp.com  Tue Jul 22 13:46:02 2003
From: jeff@ccvcorp.com (Jeff Shannon)
Date: Tue Jul 22 12:46:02 2003
Subject: [Tutor] Final de-allocation before the application exists
References: <00fe01c35040$6b8393a0$0d001eac@ud.cybage.com> <011801c35044$533cfd50$0d001eac@ud.cybage.com>
Message-ID: <3F1D6A4F.4010004@ccvcorp.com>

K Dhanvi wrote:

>  I would like to know whether Python has a function which would be 
> called just before the end of the application. I cannot use 
> destructors in my application because I have some static data in my 
> application that is modified during the life cycle of the 
> application.  If I have any function like this , then I could hide the 
> gory details of de-allocation of resources completely from the user. 
> This way, what he ( user ) does not know, he need not be bothered 
> about :)..


This depends a bit on just what you're thinking of de-allocating.  In 
most cases, when Python closes, it will automatically clean up after 
itself.  This includes freeing memory, closing open files, releasing 
sockets, etc, etc.  So, you *probably* don't actually need to do this 
yourself.  The big exception would be if that static data you mention 
needs to be written to disk before the application exits.  (Threads 
cannot be closed from outside that thread, they must stop themselves, 
but they do so automatically when the application closes unless the 
thread has been marked as a daemon, in which case they prevent the app 
from closing.)  The best way to do that depends very much on the 
structure of your program.  Most (all?) GUI toolkits allow you to hook 
into window-closing and application-closing events; a text menu-driven 
app would probably have an exit option that could be expanded on.  Tell 
us a bit more about what you need to do at closing, and how your program 
operates, and we can probably give a little bit better advice...

Jeff Shannon
Technician/Programmer
Credit International




From jeff@ccvcorp.com  Tue Jul 22 14:19:09 2003
From: jeff@ccvcorp.com (Jeff Shannon)
Date: Tue Jul 22 13:19:09 2003
Subject: [Tutor] sorting a 'large' datafile
References: <9DB3344EC407D311A0A500508B0963E401DE32DB@ex84701.cars.no.bilia.net>
Message-ID: <3F1D722B.9010902@ccvcorp.com>

Wilhelmsen Jan wrote:

> I need to sort records in a datafile by specific positions in the file.
>
>  [...]
>
> I've created two variables for the fields I want to sort by:
>
>  
>
>         rt = line[:2]
>
>         dok = line[6:16]
>
>  
>
> First I want to sort by 'dok' then by 'rt'.
>
>  
>
> Do I have to read the whole file into memory before I can begin 
> sorting the records?
>
>  
>
> I tried to read in all the lines but everything crashes when I do.
>
>  
>
> The file is only 250kb so this should be possibly, or I'm I wrong?
>

250kB should indeed fit into memory with no problem, provided you have a 
reasonable amount of memory in your computer.  (If your computer is old 
enough to have less than 100 times that much memory, you've probably got 
bigger problems than just memory size.)  You probably will need to read 
the entire file into memory before you can sort it.  There are ways to 
avoid doing so, including dumping the contents into a database, but this 
is a simple enough problem on a small enough data set that doing this 
the simple way should be easy enough.  You didn't specify the exact 
cause of the crash (cutting and pasting the traceback into your email is 
a good idea), so I can't see what your problem was before, but I'll show 
you how it should work.

The best approach here varies somewhat depending on what exactly it is 
that you want to do with your data once you've sorted it.  In all 
likelihood, though, you're going to want to end up with a list of 
records in the appropriate order.  There's a couple of options on how to 
store the records -- you can write a simple class and create an instance 
of that class for each record, or you can just convert each record into 
a tuple (or list).  I'll use tuples here for simplicity's sake.

The first thing you need to do is read in the contents of your file. 
 Since you have one line per record, it's pretty easy to get a basic 
list of records --

    datafile = file('myfile.dat','r')
    lines = datafile.readlines()

You now have a list of lines, and you want to sort that list, but you 
need to sort it based on specific subfields.  Lists have a sort() 
method, but you need to arrange things so that the right subfields will 
be sorted on in the right order.  The easiest way to do this is to 
convert each line into a tuple -- sort() automatically sorts tuples (and 
lists) based on the first element, and if those match it sorts based on 
the second element, and so on.  So if we turn each line into a tuple 
like (dok, rt, entire_line), it should get sorted in just the way that 
you want.  

We can write a quick function that'll do this for a single line, and 
then apply that function to each element in our list of lines.  The 
function should look something like this:

    def make_tuple(line):
        dok = line[6:16]
        rt = line[:2]
        return (dok, rt, line)

Actually, you could do it as a single line, depending on your 
preferences for succinctness--

    def make_tuple(line):
        return (line[6:16], line[:2], line)

The first version may make it a little easier to understand your intent 
in another six months presuming that it's clear from context what 'dok' 
and 'rt' stand for ;) but the second version is a bit shorter and 
infinitessimally quicker.

There's a couple of ways to do the same operation on every item in a 
list, but my preference in this sort of situation is to use a list 
comprehension --

    data = [make_tuple(line) for line in lines]

So now you have your list of tuples, and you can sort them.

    data.sort()

Be aware that this sorts the list in place -- it's easy to be tempted to 
write something like

    sorted_list = data.sort()

but this will not work -- the list pointed to by data will be sorted, 
and the name sorted_list will point to None.  (Lists use an in-place 
sort instead of returning a sorted copy to conserve memory in case the 
list is very large, and sort() returns None to make it very clear that 
the sort is done in-place.)

So now data is a sorted list of tuples.  If you now want to have just 
the raw lines again, but in this sorted order, you can use another list 
comprehension to strip that out --

data = [line[-1] for line in data]

This will make a list of only the last element of each tuple, but will 
preserve order.  You may also want to keep the tuples, and simply refer 
to 'tok' as item[0], 'rt' as item[1], and the entire line as item[2].

Jeff Shannon
Technician/Programmer
Credit International




From lsloan@umich.edu  Tue Jul 22 15:07:01 2003
From: lsloan@umich.edu (Lance E Sloan)
Date: Tue Jul 22 14:07:01 2003
Subject: [Tutor] Final de-allocation before the application exists
In-Reply-To: <011801c35044$533cfd50$0d001eac@ud.cybage.com>
References: <00fe01c35040$6b8393a0$0d001eac@ud.cybage.com>
 <011801c35044$533cfd50$0d001eac@ud.cybage.com>
Message-ID: <12090561.1058882769@141-213-238-90.umnet.umich.edu>

--On Tuesday, July 22, 2003 16:58 +0530 K Dhanvi  wrote:
>   I would like to know whether Python has a function which would be
> called just before the end of the application. I cannot use destructors
> in my application because I have some static data in my application that
> is modified during the life cycle of the application.  If I have any
> function like this , then I could hide the gory details of de-allocation
> of resources completely from the user. This way, what he ( user ) does
> not know, he need not be bothered about :)..

How about just catching the SystemExit exception?

>>> import sys
>>> try:
...   # Your program goes here
...   sys.exit()
... except SystemExit:
...   print "we exited"
...
we exited

Of course you could trap other specific exceptions or all exceptions for 
that matter.  See section 8 of the Python Tutorial at 
.

--
Lance E Sloan
U-M WATS: Web Applications, Technologies, and Solutions
Full-service web and database design, development, and hosting.
http://websvcs.itd.umich.edu/ - "Putting U on the Web"



From tim.one@comcast.net  Tue Jul 22 16:07:01 2003
From: tim.one@comcast.net (Tim Peters)
Date: Tue Jul 22 15:07:01 2003
Subject: [Tutor] Get me out of the blue (help urgently needed!)
In-Reply-To: <3F1CE027.8040608@aon.at>
Message-ID: 

[Gregor Lingl]
> ...
> I use Norton's Internet security and this reports:
> I:\Python23\pythonw.exe is going to access the internet ... (or
> something like this).
>
> I apparently did misinterpret this. (For me this raises
> the question, if it were impossible for programs like
> ZoneAlarm, Norton's... etc, to find out (e.g. via the
> IP adress) if such traffic is just adressing the own machine?)

It seems odd to me too, but I haven't written such a program so really don't
know what their problems might be.  The localhost network address
(127.0.0.1) sure doesn't *seem* like a hard thing to recognize!  Then again,
the fewer special cases in a firewall app, the fewer things it can get
wrong.



From alan.gauld@blueyonder.co.uk  Tue Jul 22 17:48:02 2003
From: alan.gauld@blueyonder.co.uk (Alan Gauld)
Date: Tue Jul 22 16:48:02 2003
Subject: [Tutor] Final de-allocation before the application exists
References: <00fe01c35040$6b8393a0$0d001eac@ud.cybage.com> <011801c35044$533cfd50$0d001eac@ud.cybage.com>
Message-ID: <011301c35092$8d28e260$6401a8c0@xp>

Hi,

> I cannot use destructors in my application because I have 
> some static data in my application that is modified during 
> the life cycle of the application.  

More to the point Python does not really have destructors in 
the sense that you seem to mean. Python controls the release 
of resources not the programmer.

> I am allocating the resources and threads in my module 

I'm not sue what you mean by this? I assume you are creating 
objects and assigning variables to them? And those variables 
have global scope? If so when the application exits Python will 
garbage collect the objects to which they refer. The only 
clear up you should need to do is close open files etc
(and Python actually does that too on exit, but its 
considered polite for the programmer to do it expliicitly).

> I would like to de-allocate resources in the application

If you call the del() function you will decrement the 
reference count on the object to effectively suggest to Python 
that the resource can be garbage collected at a suitable time.
If the object has a __del__ method then when the garbage 
collector eventually kicks in it will call the method. 

Beyond that what do you perceive is needed?

Alan G
Author of the Learn to Program web tutor
http://www.freenetpages.co.uk/hp/alan.gauld


From idiot1@netzero.net  Tue Jul 22 18:37:02 2003
From: idiot1@netzero.net (Kirk Bailey)
Date: Tue Jul 22 17:37:02 2003
Subject: [Tutor] Feature quest
Message-ID: <3F1DAE34.70404@netzero.net>

I am considering adding a feature to optionally offer a link to send a message to the 
owner of a list. I seek suggestions on how to best implement this function. Please email 
me directly, off list.

I can do it as:

*optional plain vanilla email link on the management page for a list

*A seperate menu of available listowners addresses

*A optional link on that list's membership management page to a script which sends a 
message. Said second script reads the listowner file and sends a message to the owner, 
never revealing the owner's actual email address. This is most secure, and most complex, 
but certainly reasonably doable.

   --

end

Cheers!
         Kirk D Bailey

  +                              think                                +
   http://www.howlermonkey.net  +-----+        http://www.tinylist.org
   http://www.listville.net     | BOX |  http://www.sacredelectron.org
   Thou art free"-ERIS          +-----+     'Got a light?'-Promethieus
  +                              think                                +

Fnord.




From SWidney@ci.las-vegas.nv.us  Tue Jul 22 19:30:02 2003
From: SWidney@ci.las-vegas.nv.us (Scott Widney)
Date: Tue Jul 22 18:30:02 2003
Subject: [Tutor] Get me out of the blue (help urgently needed!)
Message-ID: <0E5508EBA1620743B409A2B8365DE16FDC86C8@sovereign.ci.las-vegas.nv.us>

Sorry to jump into this so late (I've been off for a few days).

> At the same time Python seems to report this to ... hmmm ... to whom?
> (Also annoying! I'd like to be informed about messages going from my
> computer to whomever ... Whoever it may be, the addressee will not be
> happy with error messages like this. )

Beside what has already been mentioned, another possibility is that Windows
2000 might be invoking its error reporting dialog box. It used to be that it
was only launched when a Microsoft product died, but now it seems any
crashed application will bring it up. If a dialog box popped up giving you
the chance to report or not send information about the erro, then it
probably was a Microsoft "feature".

> I tried to use regedit to search for "home" in the registry of both
> installations, without success. (I am NOT an experienced user of
> regedit!)

In regedit, look under HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Environment. You probably have a
REG_SZ or REG_EXPAND_SZ value named HOME. Some applications use the %HOME%
environment variable as a base path for storing configuration information,
temp files, etc. You are safe setting it to any directory that exists. Since
you have Windows 2000 installed on H:, why not set HOME to H:\ ?

As an aside, the other two variables that Danny mentions (HOMEDRIVE &
HOMEPATH) are mostly used in corporate networks. In a User Profile, you can
specify that a drive letter be mapped to a network location and this
location is "home". As an example, say it was set with F: =
"\\server\sharename\path\to\profiles". When that account logs on, three
network environment variables are created. %HOMESHARE% is set to
"\\server\sharename" and %HOMEPATH% to "\path\to\profiles". The F: drive
gets mapped to the concatenation: %HOMESHARE%%HOMEPATH%. And then
%HOMEDRIVE% is set to "F:". The network environment variables can be
overridden by the user by creating a user environment variable named HOME,
which can point to any arbitrary (but existing) location.

> I don't understand how this comes? I have no environment
> variable HOME defined on both installations - or I don't know
> how to locate them, if they are created automatically.
> I don't even understand, why win2000, installed in H:
> searches for something in C: ?

Most Windows applications these days store their configuration information
in the Registry. That's why you don't come across this very often. Python,
being multi-platform, uses the closest thing Windows provides to ~ which is
%HOME%


I hope this has helped.
Scott


From vvernon@earthlink.net  Tue Jul 22 23:03:02 2003
From: vvernon@earthlink.net (Vernon Miller)
Date: Tue Jul 22 22:03:02 2003
Subject: [Tutor] (no subject)
Message-ID: <001501c350cf$46390460$cc9780d1@net>

I'm sorry for not giving more info, of course I closed the file after each
time I got through trying to write the input, but it still never wrote
anything to the file until after about 20 to 30 tries but each time that I
went down to the next part and wrote
f.readline() it printed out millions of x's and o's and locked up the
system.

I had problems all day today so I finally uninstalled the python and lost
everything I was working on.

But, and this is the important thing, after reinstalling python, it now
seems to be working. Perhaps there was something wrong with the way I had
installed python.
I don't know, but I do know that I spent 3 hrs trying to get a program to
run, after I reinstalled python, it only took one try to get it to run. Of
course I did have to spend 15 minutes rewriting the file.

Thanks for your input.
Vernon Miller
vvernon@earthlink.net



From vvernon@earthlink.net  Tue Jul 22 23:13:05 2003
From: vvernon@earthlink.net (Vernon Miller)
Date: Tue Jul 22 22:13:05 2003
Subject: [Tutor] Yes I checked
Message-ID: <002d01c350d0$ab3b0f60$cc9780d1@net>

Yes I opened the file to see if it had been written to the file, nothing was
written out of the 20 or 30 times I tried, I thought I was doing something
wrong so I tried everything I could think of to make it work.

I also closed python and restarted my computer several times.

But, nothing worked, however today after having problems all day, I
uninstalled python and went to the website and downloaded it again,
reinstalled it just a few minutes ago now it works just fine.

I finally got fed up with all the problems and got every diagnostic tool I
have out and went through everything on my computer to try and find where
the problem was. There was no problem anywhere else. So I concluded that
either I had installed python wrong, or something had gone wrong with the
installation.  I should have known, because it happened once before after I
had installed python it would'nt work properly.
Apparently that was the problem because it works fine now.

Thanks for your help
Vernon Miller
vvernon@earthlink.net



From vvernon@earthlink.net  Tue Jul 22 23:23:02 2003
From: vvernon@earthlink.net (Vernon Miller)
Date: Tue Jul 22 22:23:02 2003
Subject: [Tutor] Good ole mule
Message-ID: <006c01c350d1$fd939380$cc9780d1@net>

Good ole mule



An old hillbilly farmer had a wife who nagged him unmercifully. From morning
til night (and sometimes later), she was always complaining about something.
The only time he got any relief was when he was out plowing with his old
mule. He tried to plow a lot.

One day, when he was out plowing, his wife brought him lunch in the field.
He drove the old mule into the shade, sat down on a stump, and began to eat
his lunch. Immediately, his wife began nagging him again. Complain, nag,
complain, nag; it
just went on and on. All of a sudden, the old mule lashed out with both hind
feet; caught her smack in the back of the head.

Killed her dead on the spot.

At the funeral several days later, the minister noticed something rather
odd. When a woman mourner would approach the old farmer, he would listen for
a minute, then nod his head in agreement; but when a man mourner approached
him, he would listen for a minute, then shake his head in disagreement. This
was so consistent, the
minister decided to ask the old farmer about it. So after the funeral, the
minister spoke to the old farmer, and asked him why he nodded his head and
agreed with the women, but always shook his head and disagreed with all the
men.

The old farmer said, "Well, the women would come up and say something about
how nice my wife looked, or how pretty her dress was, so I'd nod my head in
agreement."

"And what about the men?" the minister asked.

"They wanted to know if the mule was for sale."






From dhanvik@gmx.net  Wed Jul 23 01:56:02 2003
From: dhanvik@gmx.net (K Dhanvi)
Date: Wed Jul 23 00:56:02 2003
Subject: [Tutor] Final de-allocation before the application exists
References: <00fe01c35040$6b8393a0$0d001eac@ud.cybage.com> <011801c35044$533cfd50$0d001eac@ud.cybage.com> <011301c35092$8d28e260$6401a8c0@xp>
Message-ID: <006601c350d7$17e748d0$0d001eac@ud.cybage.com>

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

------=_NextPart_000_0058_01C35105.26CF6C00
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi Friends,
    =20
 Thanks for the replies on my query.. the suggestion of systemExit =
exception could be what I want...but I have to check whether I can catch =
the exception in a module.

 I would like to clarify my application. I have a custom designed thread =
pool which maintains a stack of currently allocated threads and some =
details about them. There is also a list which maintains all the =
resources from which the threads are allocated ( or rather marked for =
allocation ) . when an application requests for a thread, the stack top =
pointer would point to next free resource ( or a thread here ) and  an =
unique id for the thread is returned to the actual application.  =
Whenever the application needs to use the thread, the application would =
call the function from the threadPool with the unique ID and the =
threadPool would start the thread as per the data provied by the =
application.=20

  Now I want to make sure that all the threads have completed execution =
before the main application exists and since I keep track of the =
allocated threads in the application in my ThreadPool module, I would =
like to have function here, that I am sure would be called whenever the =
main application exists. This function should be most preferably called =
without the knowledge of the actual application developer. since this =
would remove a overhead on his behalf of actually remembering to call =
the function.=20

  The ThreadPool and the stack are static members of the ThreadPool =
class and which is subclass of Threading class.=20

  I hope now that my question can be more easily understood.=20

  I have another class where I would be doing connection pooling for a =
networking application which would be very network intensive. Its is =
supposed to replicate thousands of clients to connect to a server. Hence =
a connection pooling class makes more sense .. thus if I have a function =
that can be called at the exit of an application in which the module is =
used, then I could politely close all my open handles ,sockets, =
threads.,etc. instead of relying on Python.  I am a  core C programmer =
and thus have the habit of cleaning up my mess :)..This way I am sure =
that I have clean exit..

  Friends.. lemme know, whether I am on the right track ... I would =
really appreciate help from you all.=20

thanks
K Dhanvi
------=_NextPart_000_0058_01C35105.26CF6C00
Content-Type: text/html;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable









Hi Friends,


     


 Thanks for the replies on my query.. the =
suggestion of=20
systemExit exception could be what I want...but I have to check =
whether I=20
can catch the exception in a module.


 


 I would like to clarify my application. I have =
a custom=20
designed thread pool which maintains a stack of currently allocated =
threads and=20
some details about them. There is also a list which maintains all =
the=20
resources from which the threads are allocated ( or rather marked for =
allocation=20
) . when an application requests for a thread, the stack top pointer =
would point=20
to next free resource ( or a thread here ) and  an unique id =
for the=20
thread is returned to the actual application.  Whenever the =
application=20
needs to use the thread, the application would call the function from =
the=20
threadPool with the unique ID and the threadPool would start the thread =
as per=20
the data provied by the application. 


 


  Now I want to make sure that all the =
threads have=20
completed execution before the main application exists and since I keep =
track of=20
the allocated threads in the application in my ThreadPool module, I =
would like=20
to have function here, that I am sure would be called whenever the main=20
application exists. This function should be most preferably called =
without the=20
knowledge of the actual application developer. since this would remove a =

overhead on his behalf of actually remembering to call the function.=20



 


  The ThreadPool and the stack are static =
members of the=20
ThreadPool class and which is subclass of Threading class. 


 


  I hope now that my question can be more =
easily=20
understood. 


 


  I have another class where I would be doing =
connection=20
pooling for a networking application which would be very network =
intensive. Its=20
is supposed to replicate thousands of clients to connect to a server. =
Hence a=20
connection pooling class makes more sense .. thus if I have a function =
that can=20
be called at the exit of an application in which the module is used, =
then I=20
could politely close all my open handles ,sockets, threads.,etc. =
instead of=20
relying on Python.  I am a  core C programmer and thus have =
the habit=20
of cleaning up my mess :)..This way I am sure that I have clean=20
exit..


 


  Friends.. lemme know, whether I am on the =
right track=20
... I would really appreciate help from you all. 


 


thanks


K Dhanvi


------=_NextPart_000_0058_01C35105.26CF6C00--



From idiot1@netzero.net  Wed Jul 23 02:06:02 2003
From: idiot1@netzero.net (Kirk Bailey)
Date: Wed Jul 23 01:06:02 2003
Subject: [Tutor] whacked up a wiki
Message-ID: <3F1E1780.30609@netzero.net>

actually, I installed piki, the all python wiki.

WOW. This sort of thing has HUGE potential. Yers, I went over and looked at the wiki 
encyclopedia. FANTASTIC.

The manual could have been better, and commenting in the script was pretty scarce 
indeed, but I skullcracked it, and it works.

Viddie the thing at http://www.tinylist.org.cgi-bin/piki.py my good droogs!



-- 

end

Cheers!
         Kirk D Bailey

  +                              think                                +
   http://www.howlermonkey.net  +-----+        http://www.tinylist.org
   http://www.listville.net     | BOX |  http://www.sacredelectron.org
   Thou art free"-ERIS          +-----+     'Got a light?'-Promethieus
  +                              think                                +

Fnord.



From lonetwin@yahoo.com  Wed Jul 23 04:32:02 2003
From: lonetwin@yahoo.com (lonetwin)
Date: Wed Jul 23 03:32:02 2003
Subject: [Tutor] importing modules
In-Reply-To: <20030721214719.GA86130@daboyz.org>
References: <200307211400.15463.cybersamurai@mac.com> <20030721214719.GA86130@daboyz.org>
Message-ID: <200307231313.17236.lonetwin@yahoo.com>

Hi there,
    Also read the documentation at (url may wrap)

http://www.python.org/doc/current/tut/node8.html#SECTION008400000000000000000

HTH
Peace
Steve

On Tuesday 22 Jul 2003 3:17 am, Michael Barrett wrote:
> Assuming your project is in directory /path/to/project and the module is
> called 'mymodule.py' then you can do the following in your script:
>
> import sys
> sys.path.append('/path/to/project')
>
> import mymodule
>
> =====
>
> Hope that helps.
>
> On Mon, Jul 21, 2003 at 02:00:15PM -0300, Luiz Siqueira Neto wrote:
> > How can I import modules inside of a directory in a root of my project?
> >
> > in java I use import dir.package.*
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Tutor maillist  -  Tutor@python.org
> > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor

-- 
One does not thank logic.
		-- Sarek, "Journey to Babel", stardate 3842.4


From thomi@thomi.imail.net.nz  Wed Jul 23 05:40:04 2003
From: thomi@thomi.imail.net.nz (Thomas CLive Richards)
Date: Wed Jul 23 04:40:04 2003
Subject: [Tutor] question regarding windows extensions and excel spreadhseets.
Message-ID: <20030723203933.201aa781.thomi@thomi.imail.net.nz>

Hi again ;)

I've been putting this off for too long now, but I need to do some
python/windows programming. the only trouble is that I have no idea
about where to start.

I have a program which generate some eight data every now and again.
What i need to do is to be able to append this to an excel spreadsheet,
while the spreadsheet is open on the users desktop. I have heard that
you can do this with Visual Basic, So I'm guessing you can do it with
the windows extensions too, right?

When looking at www.python.org/windows/ I ran into my first problem...

what's the difference between the win32 and win32com packages? which one
should i use for my application? Ideally i should be able to write a
smallish function which takes numerical input, and spits it at the excel
spreadsheet.. can this be done easily? what packages/modules/functions
should I be investigating?

I can't remember the last time i used windows, and ideally I'd like to
keep my time using windows as short as possible...

finally, although as a bit of an "aside", is there a module which
performs a similar task to the above, but under Linux? I'm guessing
it'd be application specific, so you'd have to do things differently
depending on whether you were using gnumeric, kspread or openoffice,
right?

thanks for the tips ;)

-- 

Thomi Richards,
thomi@thomi.imail.net.nz



From thomi@thomi.imail.net.nz  Wed Jul 23 06:01:02 2003
From: thomi@thomi.imail.net.nz (Thomas CLive Richards)
Date: Wed Jul 23 05:01:02 2003
Subject: [Tutor] question regarding windows extensions and excel
 spreadhseets.
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <20030723205957.359e2713.thomi@thomi.imail.net.nz>

Hi,

On Wed, 23 Jul 2003 10:46:32 +0200 Thus spake "Jaco Smuts (ZA)"
:

> Hi there 
> 
> O'Reilly has published a book on Python programming on win32 that
> should go a long way to answering your questions. 

I did see that. unfortunately, books cost money, which is something that
i don't have ;)

-- 

Thomi Richards,
thomi@thomi.imail.net.nz



From dyoo@hkn.eecs.berkeley.edu  Wed Jul 23 06:13:01 2003
From: dyoo@hkn.eecs.berkeley.edu (Danny Yoo)
Date: Wed Jul 23 05:13:01 2003
Subject: [Tutor] importing modules  [from [module] import * is evil]
In-Reply-To: <200307211400.15463.cybersamurai@mac.com>
Message-ID: 


On Mon, 21 Jul 2003, Luiz Siqueira Neto wrote:

> How can I import modules inside of a directory in a root of my project?
>
> in java I use import dir.package.*


Hi Luiz,

Let's clarify one point: your question is actually two separate questions.
*grin*

> How can I import modules inside of a directory in a root of my project?

Python searches for modules that it can find within the 'sys.path'
variable, so you can alter sys.path to include the root of your project
directory.

In Java, we deal with an environmental variable called the "CLASSPATH".
In Python, the analogous variable is "PYTHONPATH", but by default, it
includes the current directory already.  If you need to add a hardcoded
path, you can modify sys.path as Michael recommends.



> in java I use import dir.package.*

This second question is different because it asks: "How do I pull the
contents of a package into my namespace?"  For that, see:

http://www.python.org/doc/current/tut/node8.html#SECTION008410000000000000000

Warning: using 'from [module] import *' is often not a good idea --- it
works best only if a module is specifically designed to support it.  It
can be potentially problematic because it pulls everything from the module
into our namespace, including names that can conflict with builtins.


Java programmers will run into this problem too, but it's slightly less of
an issue because the problem pops up at compile time rather than runtime.
Since you have experience in Java, let's talk Java.  *grin*

Let's say we're dealing with two classes in separate packages:  'A/Foo'
and 'B/Foo':

/***
  * A/Foo.java
  **/
package A;
public class Foo {
    public void sayHello() {
        System.out.println("foo!");
    }
}
/***/



/***
  * B/Foo.java
  **/
package B;
public class Foo {
    public void sayHello() {
        System.out.println("foo?");
    }
}
/***/


Ok, the stage is set.  What happens if we do something like this?

/***
 * Test.java
 */
import A.*;
import B.*;
public class Test {
    public static void main(String[] args) {
        Foo f = new Foo();
        f.sayHello();
    }
}
/***/

Java will (or had better!) detect this as a compile-time error.  Here's
what it looks like on my end:

######
bash-2.05a$ javac Test.java
Test.java:5: reference to Foo is ambiguous, both class B.Foo in B and
class A.Foo in A match
        Foo f = new Foo();
        ^
Test.java:5: reference to Foo is ambiguous, both class B.Foo in B and
class A.Foo in A match
        Foo f = new Foo();
                    ^
2 errors
######

That's the important thing to realise: doing a "glob" of our modules can
result in collisions.  But Java opts to trigger a compile time error to
force the programmer to deal with this.  Not a good thing if you're the
author of B, but not the original designer of the A package, but it's
still should be managable in Java.


Ok, let's put on our Python hat now.  We need to get an analogous
situation going.

###
bash-2.05a$ cat A.py
def sayHello():
    print "Hello, this is A!"

bash-2.05a$ cat B.py
def sayHello():
    print "Hello, this is B"


bash-2.05a$ python
Python 2.2 (#1, 11/12/02, 23:31:59)
[GCC Apple cpp-precomp 6.14] on darwin
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> from A import *
>>> from B import *
>>> sayHello()
Hello, this is B
###

Rather than conflict with an error, Python will allow one 'import *' to
override the other.  This might be what the programmer expects... but then
again, maybe not.  So it's not a SyntaxError --- it's a bit more insidious
in Python, so not such a nice thing to deal with.

Consequently, most Python programmers will recommend the avoidance of
'import *' unless the package has been really designed with these issues
in mind.  ('Tkinter' and 'pygame', for example.)  Otherwise, it's better
to either fully qualify module imports, or to be be more specific:

###
import A
from B import sayHello
A.sayHello()
sayHello()
###

That way, we can avoid the variable name collision altogether.



Anyway, hope this helps!



From knguyen@seri.co.uk  Wed Jul 23 07:37:02 2003
From: knguyen@seri.co.uk (Khai Nguyen)
Date: Wed Jul 23 06:37:02 2003
Subject: [Tutor] write into a file
Message-ID: <341710540F08E34498A057DEE04DAAD7DFF1B1@ex1.seri.co.uk>

Hi,

Use writeline or writelines (please see doc)

This script below works fine

"
f=3Dopen('C:/Python22/Tools/tmp/workfile.txt', 'w')
f.writeline('This is the first line of the file')
"

Kind regards




-----Original Message-----
From: Vernon Miller [mailto:vvernon@earthlink.net]=20
Sent: Wednesday, July 23, 2003 5:03 AM
To: Tutor@python.org
Subject: [Tutor] (no subject)


I'm sorry for not giving more info, of course I closed the file after
each time I got through trying to write the input, but it still never
wrote anything to the file until after about 20 to 30 tries but each
time that I went down to the next part and wrote
f.readline() it printed out millions of x's and o's and locked up the
system.

I had problems all day today so I finally uninstalled the python and
lost everything I was working on.

But, and this is the important thing, after reinstalling python, it now
seems to be working. Perhaps there was something wrong with the way I
had installed python. I don't know, but I do know that I spent 3 hrs
trying to get a program to run, after I reinstalled python, it only took
one try to get it to run. Of course I did have to spend 15 minutes
rewriting the file.

Thanks for your input.
Vernon Miller
vvernon@earthlink.net


_______________________________________________
Tutor maillist  -  Tutor@python.org
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor


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the intended recipient(s). =20
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From knguyen@seri.co.uk  Wed Jul 23 07:50:01 2003
From: knguyen@seri.co.uk (Khai Nguyen)
Date: Wed Jul 23 06:50:01 2003
Subject: [Tutor] read, write to file
Message-ID: <341710540F08E34498A057DEE04DAAD7DFF1BB@ex1.seri.co.uk>

Hi,

Use writeline or writelines (please see doc)

This script below works fine

"
f=3Dopen('C:/Python22/Tools/tmp/workfile.txt', 'w')=20
f.writeline('This is the first line of the file')
F.close
"

Kind regards

-----Original Message-----
From: Vernon Miller [mailto:vvernon@earthlink.net]=20
Sent: Tuesday, July 22, 2003 12:15 AM
To: Tutor@python.org
Subject: [Tutor] read, write to file


I spend all day trying to get this to work

f=3Dopen('C:/Python22/Tools/tmp/workfile.txt', 'w')
f.write('This is the first line of the file')

after it finally seemed to work I tried to read the line with readline()

What I got was several hundred lines of x's and o's, but nothing was
written to the file

last week I went through the same thing and after rebooting several
times it finally decided to work, it seems to me that there is something
fundamentally wrong with the read, write to file functions in this
latest version of python.

Vernon Miller
vvernon@earthlink.net


_______________________________________________
Tutor maillist  -  Tutor@python.org
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor


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From jim_938@hotmail.com  Wed Jul 23 10:26:02 2003
From: jim_938@hotmail.com (Jimmy verma)
Date: Wed Jul 23 09:26:02 2003
Subject: [Tutor] problem with the file contents
Message-ID: 

Hello,

I am having a small problem in dealing with files. I am writing some stuff 
out of a font file. Like the name of the font family.

When i see it on the command line it shows the proper output like this

Luxi Serif

But if i put the variable containing this into a file then it shows the 
contents in the file as:

^@L^@u^@x^@i^@ ^@S^@e^@r^@i^@f

Please suggest sthing to solve the problem.

Waiting for reply.

With best regards.

Jim

_________________________________________________________________
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Register in India's No 1 Matrimony.



From john.moylan@rte.ie  Wed Jul 23 11:42:01 2003
From: john.moylan@rte.ie (John Moylan)
Date: Wed Jul 23 10:42:01 2003
Subject: [Tutor] re: excel
In-Reply-To: <20030723132602.460.80333.Mailman@mail.python.org>
References: <20030723132602.460.80333.Mailman@mail.python.org>
Message-ID: <1058971264.5807.3.camel@localhost.localdomain>

AFAIK OpenOffice has python bindings which might help you on Linux. You can find out more bv searching for OpenOffice + python + UNI


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From RASTM2@aol.com  Wed Jul 23 13:19:01 2003
From: RASTM2@aol.com (RASTM2@aol.com)
Date: Wed Jul 23 12:19:01 2003
Subject: [Tutor] pydoc cli in windoze
Message-ID: <71.3329b7a1.2c500f4e@aol.com>

Say fella's 

Is the pydoc command line interface accessible from the windows command line?

I was reading the Lib\Ref 5.1 and ran across pydoc's example...

...same text documentation can also be viewed from outside the Python 
interpreter by running pydoc as a script at the operating system's command prompt. 
For example, running 


pydoc sys

at a shell prompt will display documentation on the sys module, in a style 
similar to the manual pages shown by the Unix man command. 

Is this just for *NIX boxes or have I got a REAL problem, 'cuz' I get BAD 
COMMAND
doing that, and typing 

C:\python pydoc sys  or C:\python pydoc.py sys

returns CAN'T OPEN FILE PYDOC.PY.

Just wondering. 

I can always fire up an interpreter -- no big deal.

Ray St. Marie
rastm2@aol.com


From DORSEY_EDMUND_K@LILLY.COM  Wed Jul 23 15:45:03 2003
From: DORSEY_EDMUND_K@LILLY.COM (DORSEY_EDMUND_K@LILLY.COM)
Date: Wed Jul 23 14:45:03 2003
Subject: [Tutor] Anyway to do something like a #define in python?
Message-ID: 

This is a multipart message in MIME format.
--=_alternative 0066C94C05256D6C_=
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

I think the subject is pretty self explanatory but how would you go about 
doing something like this in python?  Is there a python equivalent to the 
C #define?  Thanks! ~Ed 
--=_alternative 0066C94C05256D6C_=
Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii"



I think the subject is pretty self explanatory but how would you go about doing something like this in python?  Is there a python equivalent to the C #define?  Thanks! ~Ed  
--=_alternative 0066C94C05256D6C_=--


From jeff@ccvcorp.com  Wed Jul 23 15:47:03 2003
From: jeff@ccvcorp.com (Jeff Shannon)
Date: Wed Jul 23 14:47:03 2003
Subject: [Tutor] question regarding windows extensions and excel spreadhseets.
References: <20030723203933.201aa781.thomi@thomi.imail.net.nz>
Message-ID: <3F1ED83A.8010408@ccvcorp.com>

Thomas CLive Richards wrote:

>I have a program which generate some eight data every now and again.
>What i need to do is to be able to append this to an excel spreadsheet,
>while the spreadsheet is open on the users desktop. I have heard that
>you can do this with Visual Basic, So I'm guessing you can do it with
>the windows extensions too, right?
>

Yes, you can use win32com to control Excel, as well as (just about) any 
other COM-scriptable application -- more specifically, any application 
that supports COM Automation.  (Generally, if an app is scriptable from 
Visual Basic, it's scriptable from Python through win32com as well.)

>what's the difference between the win32 and win32com packages? which one
>should i use for my application? Ideally i should be able to write a
>smallish function which takes numerical input, and spits it at the excel
>spreadsheet.. can this be done easily? what packages/modules/functions
>should I be investigating?
>

The win32 package provides interfaces to the Windows OS itself.  You'll 
want the win32com package, which allows you access to COM scripting.  If 
you have any experience with Visual Basic scripting, the principles are 
very similar though the syntax is different.  (Though, since you say 
that you don't typically use Windows, I'm guessing that you don't have 
much VB experience... ;) )

Someone else already mentioned "Python Programming on Win32"; it's 
unfortunate that you can't afford a copy, because it really will tell 
you everything you need to know.  However, O'Reilly has a sample chapter 
available online, and you're in luck because this chapter is one of the 
most relevant one to your immediate problem:

http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/pythonwin32/chapter/ch12.html

Several of the code examples specifically use Excel, too.  Hopefully, 
between that and the Visual Basic docs for Excel, you'll be able to work 
things out.  (While the Excel docs do use VB instead of Python, and thus 
the syntax is a bit different, the underlying Excel object model is the 
same.  Use those docs to get information about what Excel objects are 
available, and what they can do; comparing the VB code there with the 
information in the O'Reilly chapter should give you a good idea of how 
to translate VB syntax into Python syntax.)

Once you've got a general idea from that, feel free to post here with 
specific problems.  I've written Excel-automation scripts, but it's been 
a while....  

>finally, although as a bit of an "aside", is there a module which
>performs a similar task to the above, but under Linux? I'm guessing
>it'd be application specific, so you'd have to do things differently
>depending on whether you were using gnumeric, kspread or openoffice,
>right?
>

Yes, any such thing on Linux would be application-specific.  I 
understand that OpenOffice now has Python bindings available; I'm not 
sure about Gnumeric or Kspread.  However, Linux doesn't have any 
overarching GUI-scripting interface that's comparable to COM.  (Mozilla 
uses XPCOM, cross-platform COM, which works on Linux, but it's necessary 
for a wide range of products to use the same interface to get the same 
advantages that COM gives on Windows.  XPCOM is not (yet) that widely 
accepted.  There's also CORBA and a few other object protocols, none of 
which is widespread enough to truly compare to COM.)

Jeff Shannon
Technician/Programmer
Credit International




From jeff@ccvcorp.com  Wed Jul 23 15:54:01 2003
From: jeff@ccvcorp.com (Jeff Shannon)
Date: Wed Jul 23 14:54:01 2003
Subject: [Tutor] Anyway to do something like a #define in python?
References: 
Message-ID: <3F1ED9E8.7030501@ccvcorp.com>

DORSEY_EDMUND_K@LILLY.COM wrote:

>
> I think the subject is pretty self explanatory but how would you go 
> about doing something like this in python?  Is there a python 
> equivalent to the C #define?  Thanks! ~Ed  


No, there isn't, and on the whole that's a good thing.  #define can be 
used in a variety of different ways, most of which have a more specific 
replacement in Python.  For example, C macros are usually easily 
replaced by Python functions -- macros are useful because they're not 
type-specific, but Python is always non-type-specific.  C constants can 
be replaced by normal variables -- they won't be read-only, so you'll 
have to trust programmers to understand that modifying something 
documented as a constant is a Bad Thing(tm), but this should rarely be a 
real difficulty.  (Naming conventions, i.e. constants are named in 
all-caps, can help prevent accidental tampering.)

Is there something specific that you're trying to translate?

Jeff Shannon
Technician/Programmer
Credit International




From jaredw1234567@hotmail.com  Wed Jul 23 16:04:01 2003
From: jaredw1234567@hotmail.com (Jared W)
Date: Wed Jul 23 15:04:01 2003
Subject: [Tutor] Help with a tutorial
Message-ID: 

http://www.honors.montana.edu/~jjc/easytut/easytut/node14.html

I know this is should be really easy, but I couldn't figure it out and it 
aggrivates me when I can't do something.  Could someone please tell me how 
to do the exercise on the link above?

Thanks,
Jared

_________________________________________________________________
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http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail



From hall@ouhep1.nhn.ou.edu  Wed Jul 23 16:45:05 2003
From: hall@ouhep1.nhn.ou.edu (Isaac Hall)
Date: Wed Jul 23 15:45:05 2003
Subject: [Tutor] Help with a tutorial
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 

Hi Jared,
This looks like a homework problem....
There have been many arguments made on this list in regards to the ethics 
involved in answering homework problems on the list.  I dont feel that 
they should be answered directly, but I have no problem with giving some 
helpful hints to point someone in the right direction.  so, in that 
regard, looking at the excercise, and thinking of how I would tackle that 
problem, I would give you this hint:

Think strings....


Ike

On Wed, 23 Jul 2003, Jared W wrote:

> http://www.honors.montana.edu/~jjc/easytut/easytut/node14.html
> 
> I know this is should be really easy, but I couldn't figure it out and it 
> aggrivates me when I can't do something.  Could someone please tell me how 
> to do the exercise on the link above?
> 
> Thanks,
> Jared
> 
> _________________________________________________________________
> The new MSN 8: smart spam protection and 2 months FREE*  
> http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Tutor maillist  -  Tutor@python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor
> 

-- 



From dyoo@hkn.eecs.berkeley.edu  Wed Jul 23 17:07:28 2003
From: dyoo@hkn.eecs.berkeley.edu (Danny Yoo)
Date: Wed Jul 23 16:07:28 2003
Subject: [Tutor] Help with a tutorial
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 


On Wed, 23 Jul 2003, Jared W wrote:

> http://www.honors.montana.edu/~jjc/easytut/easytut/node14.html
>
> I know this is should be really easy, but I couldn't figure it out


Hi Jared,


Hmmm..., now that I look at it, the question itself is weird!  And I'm
having difficulty parsing it in English... *grin*


Here's the question Josh poses:


"""
Rewrite the high_low.py program from section 5.2 to use the last two
digits of time at that moment to be the 'random' number.
"""



I think there's a phrasing mistake here --- the question is probably meant
to be a two-parter:


"""
Rewrite the high_low.py program from section 5.2:

    1.  To use the last two digits of time at that moment.

    2.  To be the 'random' number.
"""

Can anyone confirm that this is what Josh meant?  If so, we need to send
this correction to him so that he can fix his tutorial.



Anyway, Jared, does this clarify things?  Try adjusting the high_low.py
program:

###
number = 78
guess = 0

while guess != number :
    guess = input ("Guess a number: ")

    if guess > number :
        print "Too high"

    elif guess < number :
            print "Too low"

print "Just right"
###


so that the 'number' isn't hardcoded to the number 78.  Please feel free
to ask more questions about this, and try explaining what part is getting
you stuck.



Good luck to you!



From alex@caustic-creations.com  Wed Jul 23 17:13:01 2003
From: alex@caustic-creations.com (Alex from Caustic Creations)
Date: Wed Jul 23 16:13:01 2003
Subject: [Tutor] Stopping a loop with user input in curses
Message-ID: <1058844990.857.12.camel@caustic.laptop>

Thanks a lot for the replies everyone.

Someone on the Python newsgroup suggested I use the select module to
accomplish what I'm trying to do. Here is the code he modified to
illustrate his solution:

[Code]

# Import curses module

import curses, time
stdscr = curses.initscr()
from select import select

def theClock():

     # Define global colour scheme
     curses.init_pair(1, curses.COLOR_WHITE, curses.COLOR_BLUE)

     # Get the screen size
     max_y, max_x = stdscr.getmaxyx()

     # Calculate the clock position relative to the screen size
     clock_x = max_x - 28

     # Draw the clock
     clockWindow = curses.newwin(3, 26, 1, clock_x)
     clockWindow.bkgd(' ', curses.color_pair(1))
     clockWindow.box()
     clockWindow.refresh()

     # If 'q' is pressed, exit
     finished = 0
     while not finished:    # finished = 0 until the 'q' key is pressed
         if select([0], [], [], 1)[0]:
             c = stdscr.getch()
             if c == ord('q'):
                 curses.beep()
                 finished = 1
                 break

         t = time.asctime()
         clockWindow.addstr(1, 1, t)
         clockWindow.refresh()


def main(stdscr):

     # Bring up the clock function

     theClock()

if __name__ == '__main__':
     curses.wrapper(main)

[/Code]

This seems like a very efficient way of accomplishing the task at hand.
If anyone has any suggestions or comments, please do let me know. I'm
trying to learn Python the right way.


Alex



From sean64@xtra.co.nz  Wed Jul 23 17:13:13 2003
From: sean64@xtra.co.nz (Sean Richards)
Date: Wed Jul 23 16:13:13 2003
Subject: [Tutor] how to call "~wxDialog()" in python?
In-Reply-To: <20030722193304.2000ee2c.thomi@thomi.imail.net.nz>
References: <20030722193304.2000ee2c.thomi@thomi.imail.net.nz>
Message-ID: <20030722093514.GA1360@xtra.co.nz>

Thomas CLive Richards wrote:

> when trying to destroy a (WxWindows) window, I have to call a function
> called "self.~wxDialog()" However, python complains about the '~'
> character:
>
> thomi@Julie:~/work/python sources/wxPython$ ./wedderburn.py
>   File "./wedderburn.py", line 146
>     EVT_BUTTON(self,ID_PREFS_CLOSEBUTTON,self.~wxDialog)
>                                               ^
> SyntaxError: invalid syntax
>
>
> I tried escaping it with a '\' character, like you can do in some other
> languages, but that didn't seem to work either. I also thought that
> maybe the python wrapper to the wxWindows library had changed thename of
> this function, but i couldn't see any mention of it in the latest
> documentation.

Not a wxPython guru but I can point you in the direction of the wxPython
Wiki at http://wiki.wxpython.org for lots of examples and tips and
wxPython comes with a directory full of demo programs that covers just
about everything you need.

As for destroying a wxPython dialog you would use self.Destroy() to
destroy it. In the event handler you have written I think the normal
procedure is to use that to call a function you have defined something
like ...

EVT_BUTTON(self, EXIT_ID,self.Exit)

def Exit(self,event):
    """On exit Kill Everything. """
    self.Destroy()


Hope this helps a little. Get over to the wxPython wiki and have a look
around it will make things a lot easier.

Cheers, Sean

--
+---------------------------------------------------------------+
| All spelling errors are intentional and are there to show new |
| and improved ways of spelling old words.                      |
+---------------------------------------------------------------+

--
+---------------------------------------------------------------+
| All spelling errors are intentional and are there to show new |
| and improved ways of spelling old words.                      |
+---------------------------------------------------------------+


From plusk@radford.edu  Wed Jul 23 17:13:28 2003
From: plusk@radford.edu (Paul D. Lusk)
Date: Wed Jul 23 16:13:28 2003
Subject: [Tutor] email with body AND attachments
Message-ID: 

I'm trying to use the email package to create a message with
both a body and one or more attachments. Using the code in the docs (email 
examples - node 12.2.10), I can create messages with all the attachments
that I want, but nothing I've tried gives both attachments and a message 
body. Google is coming up blank on examples using the email package, though 
I did find examples using pre-email modules. Does anybody have an example 
handy using the email package?

Paul



From op73418@mail.telepac.pt  Wed Jul 23 17:30:12 2003
From: op73418@mail.telepac.pt (Rodrigues)
Date: Wed Jul 23 16:30:12 2003
Subject: [Tutor] email with body AND attachments
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 


> -----Original Message-----
> From: tutor-admin@python.org
> [mailto:tutor-admin@python.org]On Behalf Of
> Paul D. Lusk
> Sent: quarta-feira, 23 de Julho de 2003 18:48
> To: tutor@python.org
> Subject: [Tutor] email with body AND attachments
>
>
> I'm trying to use the email package to create a message with
> both a body and one or more attachments. Using the code in
> the docs (email
> examples - node 12.2.10), I can create messages with all
> the attachments
> that I want, but nothing I've tried gives both attachments
> and a message
> body. Google is coming up blank on examples using the email
> package, though
> I did find examples using pre-email modules. Does anybody
> have an example
> handy using the email package?
>
> Paul
>

This is a class I wrote a while ago to simplify things when it comes
to writing MIME email mesages -- and never got to use it as a matter
of fact.

#Import standard modules.
import smptlib
import email
import mimetypes


#Exceptions.
class SendError(Exception):
    """SendError exception class."""
    pass


class MessageError(Exception):
    """MessageError exception class."""
    pass


#Classes.
class Message(object):
    """The Message class, a simplified MIME wrapper."""

    types = {'text' : email.MIMEText.MIMEText}

    def __init__(self, message, subject, fromaddress, toaddresses):
        """The initializer."""
        super(Message, self).__init__()
        #Generate message.
        MIMEText = email.MIMEText.MIMEText
        self.__message = MIMEText(message, _encoder =
email.Encoders.encode_quopri)
        #Set fields.
        self.__message['Subject'] = subject
        self.__message['From'] = fromaddress
        self.__message['To'] = ';'.join(toaddresses)

    #Properties.
    def __get_sender(self):
        return self.__message['From']

    sender = property(__get_sender)

    def __get_recipients(self):
        return self.__message['To'].split(';')

    recipents = property(__get_recipients)

    def __str__(self):
        return self.__message.as_string()

    def attach(self, filename):
        """Attach a file to Message."""
        #Generate MIME message.
        filetype, encoding = mimetypes.guess_type(filename)
        maintype, subtype = filetype.split('/', 1)
        f = file(filename)
        try:
            data = f.read()
        finally:
            f.close()
        try:
            message = self.types[maintype](data, _subtype = subtype)
        except KeyError:
            raise MessageError("Unknown file type.", filename)
        #Attach message.
        self.__message.add_header('Content-Disposition',
                                  'attachment',
                                  filename = filename)
        self.__message.attach(message)

As you can see from the __init__ method a message with a body *is* a
email.MIMEText.MIMEText instance. You then attach files
in the usual manner.

Hope it helps, with my best regards,
G. Rodrigues

P.S: I have no accompanying unit tests, so you must take this code as
untested. Don't trust it.

>
> _______________________________________________
> Tutor maillist  -  Tutor@python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor



From pauljhickey@eircom.net  Wed Jul 23 17:41:02 2003
From: pauljhickey@eircom.net (Paul Hickey)
Date: Wed Jul 23 16:41:02 2003
Subject: [Tutor] Help with a tutorial
References: 
Message-ID: <003501c3515a$8a6cf9d0$fdc4fea9@pjhickey>

Hi , i am also doing Josh's tutorial, ive just started that question and
dont have the answer, sorry!!!!!
However to clear things up as i read the thing,

He wants you to rewrite the program to use the last two digits as the
number, the word 'random' means that the number will be different each time
you run the program, but not a truly 'random' number, its only gonna be
1 -60. A kinda random number!!!
I say this because he does say earlier in the tutorial that you should be
able to modify this program after the chapter on 'modules' to be a 'truly
random' program, the chapter on modules is after the one Jared W is on now.
Hope i did not make things more confused.
Anyway its a great tutorial.
Paul

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Danny Yoo" 
To: "Jared W" 
Cc: 
Sent: Wednesday, July 23, 2003 9:05 PM
Subject: Re: [Tutor] Help with a tutorial


>
>
> On Wed, 23 Jul 2003, Jared W wrote:
>
> > http://www.honors.montana.edu/~jjc/easytut/easytut/node14.html
> >
> > I know this is should be really easy, but I couldn't figure it out
>
>
> Hi Jared,
>
>
> Hmmm..., now that I look at it, the question itself is weird!  And I'm
> having difficulty parsing it in English... *grin*
>
>
> Here's the question Josh poses:
>
>
> """
> Rewrite the high_low.py program from section 5.2 to use the last two
> digits of time at that moment to be the 'random' number.
> """
>
>
>
> I think there's a phrasing mistake here --- the question is probably meant
> to be a two-parter:
>
>
> """
> Rewrite the high_low.py program from section 5.2:
>
>     1.  To use the last two digits of time at that moment.
>
>     2.  To be the 'random' number.
> """
>
> Can anyone confirm that this is what Josh meant?  If so, we need to send
> this correction to him so that he can fix his tutorial.
>
>
>
> Anyway, Jared, does this clarify things?  Try adjusting the high_low.py
> program:
>
> ###
> number = 78
> guess = 0
>
> while guess != number :
>     guess = input ("Guess a number: ")
>
>     if guess > number :
>         print "Too high"
>
>     elif guess < number :
>             print "Too low"
>
> print "Just right"
> ###
>
>
> so that the 'number' isn't hardcoded to the number 78.  Please feel free
> to ask more questions about this, and try explaining what part is getting
> you stuck.
>
>
>
> Good luck to you!
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Tutor maillist  -  Tutor@python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor
>
>




From idiot1@netzero.net  Wed Jul 23 21:31:03 2003
From: idiot1@netzero.net (Kirk Bailey)
Date: Wed Jul 23 20:31:03 2003
Subject: [Tutor] whacked up a wiki
In-Reply-To: <1058994512.19834.137.camel@matt-richardsons-computer.local>
References: <3F1E1780.30609@netzero.net> <1058994512.19834.137.camel@matt-richardsons-computer.local>
Message-ID: <3F1F288B.6090303@netzero.net>

working ok here. try again:
	http://www.tinylist.org/cgi-bin/piki.py


Matt Richardson wrote:
> On Tue, 2003-07-22 at 22:05, Kirk Bailey wrote:
> 
>>actually, I installed piki, the all python wiki.
>>
>>WOW. This sort of thing has HUGE potential. Yers, I went over and looked at the wiki 
>>encyclopedia. FANTASTIC.
>>
>>The manual could have been better, and commenting in the script was pretty scarce 
>>indeed, but I skullcracked it, and it works.
>>
>>Viddie the thing at http://www.tinylist.org.cgi-bin/piki.py my good droogs!
> 
> 
> I'm really interested in this, but I couldn't get your page to load. 
> Did you use piki-piki, the one Martin Pool wrote?
> 

-- 

-- 

end

Cheers!
         Kirk D Bailey

  +                              think                                +
   http://www.howlermonkey.net  +-----+        http://www.tinylist.org
   http://www.listville.net     | BOX |  http://www.sacredelectron.org
   Thou art free"-ERIS          +-----+     'Got a light?'-Promethieus
  +                              think                                +

Fnord.



From lonetwin@yahoo.com  Thu Jul 24 04:37:01 2003
From: lonetwin@yahoo.com (lonetwin)
Date: Thu Jul 24 03:37:01 2003
Subject: [Tutor] Anyway to do something like a #define in python?
In-Reply-To: <3F1ED9E8.7030501@ccvcorp.com>
References:  <3F1ED9E8.7030501@ccvcorp.com>
Message-ID: <200307241318.04114.lonetwin@yahoo.com>

Hi there,

On Thursday 24 Jul 2003 12:24 am, Jeff Shannon wrote:
> DORSEY_EDMUND_K@LILLY.COM wrote:
> > I think the subject is pretty self explanatory but how would you go
> > about doing something like this in python?  Is there a python
> > equivalent to the C #define?  Thanks! ~Ed
     That depends ....

> No, there isn't, and on the whole that's a good thing.  #define can be
> used in a variety of different ways, most of which have a more specific
> replacement in Python.
	That's true. There isn't any exact drop-in replacement for a #define, it=20
depends on what you need to do. Before we go into that, lets get one thing=
=20
clear.

 What is a '#define' in C ??
    It's a 'preprocessor' directive that replaces all occurrences of the=20
#defined name with whatever expression you provide. That means if you have

#define ADD(x, y) x+y
#define MAX 2000

=2E.then, *before* the actual compilation stage, all occurrences of ADD and=
 MAX=20
are simply rewritten with the expressions that you provided.

ie: if somewhere you had written

printf ('%d, %d', ADD(10, 20), MAX);

	that gets replaced by

printf ('%d, %d', 10+20, 2000);

      *before* the compilation stage. The bad part about all this is, this =
may=20
cause a lot of hard to trace bugs, because during the replacement=20
(preprocessing stage) no type checking or validation is done ...and you mig=
ht=20
already know the pitfalls of automatic type conversion or incorrect type=20
specification in C.

   Anyways, back to python. Since python is any interpreted language, there=
=20
isn't any preprocessing step. Nor is there a mechanism to replace occurrenc=
es=20
of a name with an expression. On the other hand you _do_ have the ability t=
o=20
assign expressions (even functions !!) to variables. So, although the=20
following statements might reflect similar behaviour to '#define', they are=
=20
not the same thing.

>>> ADD =3D lambda x, y: x+y
>>> MAX =3D 2000
>>> def hello_world():
=2E..     print "Hello, world !"
=2E..
>>> HELLO =3D hello_world
>>>
>>> ADD(10, 20)
30
>>> print MAX
2000
>>> HELLO()
Hello, world !
>>>

HTH
Peace
Steve

=2D-=20
Never stand between a fire hydrant and a dog
		-- Murphy's Laws on Sex n=B049


From Janssen@rz.uni-frankfurt.de  Thu Jul 24 08:51:01 2003
From: Janssen@rz.uni-frankfurt.de (Michael Janssen)
Date: Thu Jul 24 07:51:01 2003
Subject: [Tutor] Help with a tutorial
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: 

On Wed, 23 Jul 2003, Danny Yoo wrote:

> Hmmm..., now that I look at it, the question itself is weird!  And I'm
> having difficulty parsing it in English... *grin*

> Here's the question Josh poses:

> """
> Rewrite the high_low.py program from section 5.2 to use the last two
> digits of time at that moment to be the 'random' number.
> """

> I think there's a phrasing mistake here --- the question is probably meant
> to be a two-parter:

> """
> Rewrite the high_low.py program from section 5.2:
>
>     1.  To use the last two digits of time at that moment.
>
>     2.  To be the 'random' number.
> """
>
> Can anyone confirm that this is what Josh meant?  If so, we need to send
> this correction to him so that he can fix his tutorial.
>

I don't understand your rephrasing either ;-) You can't rewrite
high_low.py "to be the 'random' number" because high_low.py is not
intended to provide such a number (but to use one). Also, the current
section "Using Modules" has no need of a random number, so why rewrite
high_low.py to "be" one?

My guess is:

"""Rewrite the high_low.py program from section 5.2 to use the last two
digits of time() [he has imported time.time into global namespace] as a
'random' number."""

"at that moment" is not important to mention, cause this is what
time.time() does. "use something as something" seems to be clearer to
me than "use something to be something".


Michael


From marc_barry@hotmail.com  Thu Jul 24 12:19:03 2003
From: marc_barry@hotmail.com (Marc Barry)
Date: Thu Jul 24 11:19:03 2003
Subject: [Tutor] Determining if an iterator has more elements.
Message-ID: 

I have read numerous posts in the archive about the following question and I 
haven't been able to find an answer or rather an explanation for the 
following.

I am using iterators in Python but am confused over determining when the 
iterator has no more elements.  Here is a small code snippet to illustrate 
what I am talking about:

a_list = [1,2,3,4,5]

i = iter(a_list)

try:
    while(1):
         print i.next()
except StopIteration:
    pass

Obviously, when you run the above it prints out the values 1, 2, 3...  My 
problem is that the iterator contract in Python causes next() to raise a 
StopIteration exception when there are no further items in the iterator.  
The contract provides no such method to test whether the iterator has more 
elements (i.e. like Java's hasNext()).  Therefore, I using the exception to 
detect when the iterator does not have anymore elements.  I can't think of 
any other way to test for this.  I don't think that exception handling is 
meant to be used to determine when to exit a loop.

I realise that I could do the same thing with the following much simpler 
code:

for i in iter(a_list):
	print i

This though does not add to my understanding of how to handle iterator's 
when not iterating through them with a "for" statement.

Any comments or suggestions on how to test if an iterator has more elements 
(without using the StopIteration exception to do so)?

Marc

_________________________________________________________________
The new MSN 8: advanced junk mail protection and 2 months FREE*  
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From Nitin  Gangahar" 

Hi!I also started python with Josh's tutorial.I'll try to find the 
ans. for the problem.I think U should use the time module for 
this.
        TY
         NITIN

___________________________________________________
Download the hottest & happening ringtones here!
OR SMS: Top tone to 7333
Click here now: 
http://sms.rediff.com/cgi-bin/ringtone/ringhome.pl




From wheelcrdan@hotmail.com  Thu Jul 24 12:58:13 2003
From: wheelcrdan@hotmail.com (Dan Dud)
Date: Thu Jul 24 11:58:13 2003
Subject: [Tutor] Danny Yoo and Magnus Lyckå I would like to say THANKS FOR ALL YOUR HELP
Message-ID: 

Hi everyone

I just wanted to take a minute and say thanks to Danny, and Magnus Lyckå 
that have been there since I started messing with programming. I would be 
lost if it wasn't for the both of you thanks for all your help with all my 
stupid questions.. I'm sure everyone around here is thankful too... Take 
care and I'm positive that I'll be back asking some more questions.

Sincerely Danny D

_________________________________________________________________
Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*.  
http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail



From phate@rockriver.net  Thu Jul 24 13:13:02 2003
From: phate@rockriver.net (Michie DeBerry)
Date: Thu Jul 24 12:13:02 2003
Subject: [Tutor] Random Numbers
Message-ID: <200307241113.19208.phate@rockriver.net>

Hello,
Allow me to start by introducing myself. My name is Michie, and I am currently 
reading Sam's Teach Yourself Python in 24 Hours. I was wondering if there is 
anyway to create a random number in Python. I am currently writting a program 
to create a password for you. It will have more features later on, but for 
right now, that is all I need it to do. Any suggestions as how to go about 
creating a random number x number of times to get a-z or 0-9 from a list?
Thx,
Michie (pronounced Mickey)


From jeff@ccvcorp.com  Thu Jul 24 13:16:02 2003
From: jeff@ccvcorp.com (Jeff Shannon)
Date: Thu Jul 24 12:16:02 2003
Subject: [Tutor] Determining if an iterator has more elements.
References: 
Message-ID: <3F200672.2020909@ccvcorp.com>

Marc Barry wrote:

>
> try:
>    while(1):
>         print i.next()
> except StopIteration:
>    pass
>
> Obviously, when you run the above it prints out the values 1, 2, 3...  
> My problem is that the iterator contract in Python causes next() to 
> raise a StopIteration exception when there are no further items in the 
> iterator.  The contract provides no such method to test whether the 
> iterator has more elements (i.e. like Java's hasNext()).  Therefore, I 
> using the exception to detect when the iterator does not have anymore 
> elements.  I can't think of any other way to test for this.  I don't 
> think that exception handling is meant to be used to determine when to 
> exit a loop. 


Actually, it is -- every for-loop in Python is effectively terminated 
through exception handling.  A for loop has a hidden index variable 
that's incremented each trip through the loop; when that index variable 
is larger than the length of the sequence, an IndexError is raised.  The 
for loop implicitly catches that exception and continues execution just 
after the body of the loop.  In other words, if you were to explicitly 
write out the compiled code for a for loop, it'd have just about the 
same structure as your code snippet above.

The thing to keep in mind, here, is that Python uses exceptions much 
more freely than Java or C++, for circumstances that are much less 
exceptional.  Thus, it's considered perfectly good practice in Python 
that it's "easier to ask forgiveness than permission" -- i.e., try an 
operation and catch an exception if it fails, instead of attempting to 
check if the operation can succeed before performing the operation. 
 Catching the StopIteration exception, as you do above, is indeed 
Pythonic and accepted.

Jeff Shannon
Technician/Programmer
Credit International




From zak@harlekin-maus.com  Thu Jul 24 13:25:11 2003
From: zak@harlekin-maus.com (Zak Arntson)
Date: Thu Jul 24 12:25:11 2003
Subject: [Tutor] Random Numbers
In-Reply-To: <200307241113.19208.phate@rockriver.net>
References: <200307241113.19208.phate@rockriver.net>
Message-ID: <1259.192.206.201.217.1059063881.squirrel@mail.harlekin-maus.com>

> Hello,

> Any suggestions as how to go about  creating a random number x number of
> times to get a-z or 0-9 from a list? Thx,
> Michie (pronounced Mickey)

I don't want to give you the answer, so here's a hint: To repeat most
things x number of times, you'll want to use a while or for loop.

---
Zak Arntson
www.harlekin-maus.com - Games - Lots of 'em




From godoy@metalab.unc.edu  Thu Jul 24 13:26:04 2003
From: godoy@metalab.unc.edu (Jorge Godoy)
Date: Thu Jul 24 12:26:04 2003
Subject: [Tutor] Random Numbers
In-Reply-To: <200307241113.19208.phate@rockriver.net> (Michie DeBerry's
 message of "Thu, 24 Jul 2003 11:13:19 -0500")
References: <200307241113.19208.phate@rockriver.net>
Message-ID: 

Michie DeBerry  writes:

> Hello,
> Allow me to start by introducing myself. My name is Michie, and I am currently 
> reading Sam's Teach Yourself Python in 24 Hours. I was wondering if there is 
> anyway to create a random number in Python. I am currently writting a program 
> to create a password for you. It will have more features later on, but for 
> right now, that is all I need it to do. Any suggestions as how to go about 
> creating a random number x number of times to get a-z or 0-9 from a list?

I did that when I created a graphical frontend to create crypt() and
MD5 hashes of passwords.

This is the relevant part:


----------------------------------------------------------------------
#!/usr/bin/env python

import crypt
import string
import random
from Crypto.Hash import MD5

(...)
 
    def ConvertPassword(self, event):
        characters = ''.join([string.ascii_letters, string.digits, './'])
        salt = ''.join([random.choice(characters), random.choice(characters)])
        original_pwd = self.BxPasswd.GetValue()
        md5 = MD5.new(original_pwd).hexdigest()
        crypted = crypt.crypt(original_pwd, salt)
        self.TxtMD5.SetValue(md5)
        self.TxtCrypt.SetValue(crypted)
----------------------------------------------------------------------

See you,
-- 
Godoy.     


From andi@buxach.de  Thu Jul 24 13:33:01 2003
From: andi@buxach.de (Andreas Zwinkau)
Date: Thu Jul 24 12:33:01 2003
Subject: [Tutor] pymad, pyao
Message-ID: <20030724165415.042ff317.andi@buxach.de>

Hi

I made a jukebox daemon but it hangs sometimes for no reason. My
suggestion is it hangs/loops during in- or output, which is pymad or
pyao. I let pyao do the mixing of both streams, by just having run two
players. I wondered i work with oss output. Could this be a source of
problems?

I have problems tracing the problem, because of the many threads
which are running. How could i trace such problems?

I let it spit out many message, when what happens, so far. But infinite
loops are hard to find ...

mfg
Andreas Zwinkau
 | web: andi.dasstellenwirinsinternet.de
 | mail: andi@buxach.de
 | jabber: beza1e1@amessage.de


From glingl@aon.at  Thu Jul 24 13:55:02 2003
From: glingl@aon.at (Gregor Lingl)
Date: Thu Jul 24 12:55:02 2003
Subject: [Tutor] Random Numbers
Message-ID: <3F200FDD.3020503@aon.at>


Michie DeBerry schrieb:

>Hello,
>Allow me to start by introducing myself. My name is Michie, and I am currently 
>reading Sam's Teach Yourself Python in 24 Hours. I was wondering if there is 
>anyway to create a random number in Python. I am currently writting a program 
>to create a password for you. It will have more features later on, but for 
>right now, that is all I need it to do. Any suggestions as how to go about 
>creating a random number x number of times to get a-z or 0-9 from a list?
>  
>
Many things about "random" you find in the module random. Docs at:

http://www.python.org/doc/current/lib/module-random.html

random integers you  may create with the function randint:

 >>> from random import randint
 >>> for i in range(25):
    print randint(1,7),

   
1 5 4 1 4 3 4 6 1 4 7 2 2 3 4 2 3 6 1 1 5 2 4 3 1

For your purpose the function choice, which selects random elements
from a sequence, may be better suited:

 >>> from random import choice
 >>> for i in range(25):
    print choice("abcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyz"),

   
u f l v y g f e e y s g j d i e v v q d b i l h q
 >>>

HTH, Gregor

>Thx,
>Michie (pronounced Mickey)
>
>_______________________________________________
>Tutor maillist  -  Tutor@python.org
>http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor
>
>
>  
>







From mwagman@charter.net  Thu Jul 24 14:20:01 2003
From: mwagman@charter.net (Mike Wagman)
Date: Thu Jul 24 13:20:01 2003
Subject: [Tutor] Random Numbers
In-Reply-To: <200307241113.19208.phate@rockriver.net>
References: <200307241113.19208.phate@rockriver.net>
Message-ID: <1059067232.2499.5.camel@Knoppix>

One thing I chose as a starting to learn python exercise was random
number generation.

I wrote a command line dice roller, a Gui dice roller, and a module that
handles some fairly complex rolling. I ran it through py2exe and found a
free installer that works well but have not put the stand alone windows
one on the page yet.

http://www.geocities.com/mikewagman

Can't say it's the cleanest code on the planet - but I was quite new
then (still am fairly new). Found it a great learning experience.


On Thu, 2003-07-24 at 11:13, Michie DeBerry wrote:
> Hello,
> Allow me to start by introducing myself. My name is Michie, and I am currently 
> reading Sam's Teach Yourself Python in 24 Hours. I was wondering if there is 
> anyway to create a random number in Python. I am currently writting a program 
> to create a password for you. It will have more features later on, but for 
> right now, that is all I need it to do. Any suggestions as how to go about 
> creating a random number x number of times to get a-z or 0-9 from a list?
> Thx,
> Michie (pronounced Mickey)
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Tutor maillist  -  Tutor@python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor



From dyoo@hkn.eecs.berkeley.edu  Thu Jul 24 15:46:09 2003
From: dyoo@hkn.eecs.berkeley.edu (Danny Yoo)
Date: Thu Jul 24 14:46:09 2003
Subject: [Tutor] Help with a tutorial
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 


> > """
> > Rewrite the high_low.py program from section 5.2 to use the last two
> > digits of time at that moment to be the 'random' number.
> > """
>
> > I think there's a phrasing mistake here --- the question is probably meant
> > to be a two-parter:
>
> > """
> > Rewrite the high_low.py program from section 5.2:
> >
> >     1.  To use the last two digits of time at that moment.
> >
> >     2.  To be the 'random' number.
> > """

> I don't understand your rephrasing either ;-)

[text cut]

> My guess is:
>
> """Rewrite the high_low.py program from section 5.2 to use the last two
> digits of time() [he has imported time.time into global namespace] as a
> 'random' number."""
>
> "at that moment" is not important to mention, cause this is what
> time.time() does. "use something as something" seems to be clearer to me
> than "use something to be something".


Ah, better!  Ok, your rephrasing makes a lot more sense.


Jared, have you been able to make more progress on this problem?  If not,
try to tell us what part of the problem is getting you stuck.



From idiot1@netzero.net  Thu Jul 24 16:39:03 2003
From: idiot1@netzero.net (Kirk Bailey)
Date: Thu Jul 24 15:39:03 2003
Subject: [Tutor] piki, wiki, and such
Message-ID: <3F203576.3000305@netzero.net>

Having great fun, inhaling wikiwiki stuff at a dead run. Think I will take a stab at 
writing one.

1. modular is the way to go.
2. instead of hard coding the header and footer into the page viewing routine, I will
    use external files, so the user can edit the sourcefile. Anything in it that needs 
it
    can be parsed.
3. piki is big on objects and their methods; looks like I am going to pound the
    legenrary concrete skull into OOP at long last.

The existing one is at
	http://www.tinylist.org/cgi-bin/piki.py


-- 

-- 

end

Cheers!
         Kirk D Bailey

  +                              think                                +
   http://www.howlermonkey.net  +-----+        http://www.tinylist.org
   http://www.listville.net     | BOX |  http://www.sacredelectron.org
   Thou art free"-ERIS          +-----+     'Got a light?'-Promethieus
  +                              think                                +

Fnord.



From mlong@datalong.com  Thu Jul 24 17:11:02 2003
From: mlong@datalong.com (Michael Long)
Date: Thu Jul 24 16:11:02 2003
Subject: [Tutor] Send email w/ outlook
Message-ID: 

Hi,

This may be very simple but I have googled and read and googled some
more without gaining any enlightenment. I have a python script that
generates a file. I want to send that file as an attachement in an
email. The machine that the script will run on uses outlook as the mail
client to an exchange server. How do I go about this? BTW, I have
downloaded and gone through the documentation in the win32all module.

TIA,
Mike



From jeff@ccvcorp.com  Thu Jul 24 17:42:02 2003
From: jeff@ccvcorp.com (Jeff Shannon)
Date: Thu Jul 24 16:42:02 2003
Subject: [Tutor] Send email w/ outlook
References: 
Message-ID: <3F2044AA.9050208@ccvcorp.com>

Michael Long wrote:

>Hi,
>
>This may be very simple but I have googled and read and googled some
>more without gaining any enlightenment. I have a python script that
>generates a file. I want to send that file as an attachement in an
>email. The machine that the script will run on uses outlook as the mail
>client to an exchange server. How do I go about this? BTW, I have
>downloaded and gone through the documentation in the win32all module.
>  
>

Instead of working out how to control Outlook, you're probably better 
off looking at the standard library's email and smtplib modules.  You 
can generate your own email (with attachments) and send it directly to 
the server, rather than having to go through the intermediate step of 
controlling a mail client.

Both of these modules should have pretty decent documentation.  If you 
get stuck on anything, ask again here and we'll see what we can work out.

Jeff Shannon
Technician/Programmer
Credit International




From jeff@ccvcorp.com  Thu Jul 24 18:01:55 2003
From: jeff@ccvcorp.com (Jeff Shannon)
Date: Thu Jul 24 17:01:55 2003
Subject: [Tutor] Determining if an iterator has more elements.
References: 
Message-ID: <3F20492B.3000006@ccvcorp.com>

Marc Barry wrote:

> Jeff:
>
> Thanks a million for your answer.  The language is quite easy to learn 
> as I started reading about it on Monday and  I already feel like I 
> have a good grasp on the language.  Since you are knowledgeable on the 
> Python subject, I was wondering if you could offer some input on the 
> following questions: 


Sure, but I'm forwarding this back to the mailing list too, because 
others may have better input than mine.  :)

> 1.  I need a sorted set data type and I noticed that there isn't one 
> in any of the python modules.  I also need just a regular set data 
> type, but I think I solved that by using a dictionary with both the 
> key and the value as the same object.  Do you know if there are any 
> Pyhton libraries that offer a sorted set implementation? 


Nothing standard.  I believe that Sets will become a built-in type in 
Python 2.3 (due out any day now), but I don't know whether they'll be 
sortable.  You could probably work out something that uses a dict to 
emulate a set, and keeps a sort()ed list of keys...  I'm sure I've seen 
discussion about sorted dictionaries before, but can't recall whether it 
was here or on comp.lang.python; a bit of trawling through archives and 
google groups might turn something up.

> 2.  When I made my first Python class I put all of my class member 
> variables directly after the class declaration.  After doing so, I 
> noticed that if I changed the variable in one instance of an object it 
> was changed in all instances (i.e. static variables).  So I moved all 
> the variables inside the __init__ method and then everything seemed to 
> act like I expected (i.e. as instance variables).  So is the previous 
> how you define static variables in Pyhton and the latter how you 
> define instance variables? 


Yes, pretty much, except that in Python they're typically called class 
variables rather than static variables.  Also, you can get some 
potentially confusing effects depending on whether you're modifying an 
object or rebinding a name.  Here's a short example:

 >>> class breakfast:
...     spam = 0
...     food = ['eggs']
...    
 >>> s1 = breakfast()
 >>> s2 = breakfast()
 >>> s1.spam
0
 >>> s1.spam = 3
 >>> s1.spam
3
 >>> s2.spam
0
 >>>

At first, both s1 and s2 share the class variable 'spam', which is 0. 
 However, when I rebind the name by doing 's1.spam = 3', I'm creating a 
*new* instance variable named 'spam' on instance s1.  s2, however, is 
still using the class variable.

 >>> s1.food
['eggs']
 >>> s1.food.append('sausage')
 >>> s2.food
['eggs', 'sausage']
 >>> s1.food
['eggs', 'sausage']
 >>>

Here, the change made to one showed up in both.  What's the difference? 
 Here, I've taken an existing object  (the list pointed to by 
breakfast.food) and mutated it by adding another element.  However, I 
haven't changed any of the names binding that list to my class (or 
either instance).  Since I haven't created a new instance variable for 
s1, it's still pointing to the class variable, as is s2.  

The concept of name binding and object mutation is very important in 
Python, so if this is at all confusing to you, it might be good to 
search out some more thorough descriptions from the online tutorial and 
the list/newsgroup archives.

> Also, I wasn't sure if I should reply to you via the mailing list.  I 
> am not sure of the protocol and so please inform me if I shouldn't 
> contact you directly. 


I don't mind being contacted directly, but it's usually best to at least 
send a copy of things like this to the list.  That way, if I should 
happen to be busy, someone else has the chance to answer your 
questions... and if I happen to give a wrong answer, someone else can 
correct me.  :)

Jeff Shannon
Technician/Programmer
Credit International




From phate@rockriver.net  Thu Jul 24 19:07:02 2003
From: phate@rockriver.net (Michie DeBerry)
Date: Thu Jul 24 18:07:02 2003
Subject: [Tutor] Password Program
Message-ID: <200307241707.01921.phate@rockriver.net>

Hello peeps,
I was wondering if it was possible to have a program in Python ask someone for 
a user name/password and then encrypt the password, save it to the harddrive, 
and later, when asked, decrypt the password and tell u what the un/pw is.


From R. Alan Monroe" 
References: <200307241707.01921.phate@rockriver.net>
Message-ID: <47732771259.20030724182441@columbus.rr.com>

> I was wondering if it was possible to have a program in Python ask someone for
> a user name/password and then encrypt the password, save it to the harddrive, 
> and later, when asked, decrypt the password and tell u what the un/pw is.

I had never looked into this until recently, and I felt really stupid
for it not having occurred to me. Most sytems enrypt the password in a
way to where you purposely CAN'T decrypt it. Later, when the user logs
in, they encrypt whatever the user typed for the password, and compare
that to the stored encrypted password.

I don't know if there's anything in the stock library that will do
reversible encryption. Anyone know?

Alan



From justin@unixremedies.com  Thu Jul 24 19:41:03 2003
From: justin@unixremedies.com (Justin Heath)
Date: Thu Jul 24 18:41:03 2003
Subject: [Tutor] Password Program
In-Reply-To: <200307241707.01921.phate@rockriver.net>
References: <200307241707.01921.phate@rockriver.net>
Message-ID: <3F205EE5.3070309@unixremedies.com>

Michie DeBerry wrote:

>Hello peeps,
>I was wondering if it was possible to have a program in Python ask someone for 
>a user name/password and then encrypt the password, save it to the harddrive, 
>and later, when asked, decrypt the password and tell u what the un/pw is.
>
>_______________________________________________
>Tutor maillist  -  Tutor@python.org
>http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor
>  
>
Check out http://www.python.org/doc/2.2.3/lib/module-crypt.html.




From dyoo@hkn.eecs.berkeley.edu  Thu Jul 24 20:03:02 2003
From: dyoo@hkn.eecs.berkeley.edu (Danny Yoo)
Date: Thu Jul 24 19:03:02 2003
Subject: [Tutor] Sorted dictionaries
In-Reply-To: <3F20492B.3000006@ccvcorp.com>
Message-ID: 


On Thu, 24 Jul 2003, Jeff Shannon wrote:

> > 1.  I need a sorted set data type and I noticed that there isn't one
> > in any of the python modules.  I also need just a regular set data
> > type, but I think I solved that by using a dictionary with both the
> > key and the value as the same object.  Do you know if there are any
> > Pyhton libraries that offer a sorted set implementation?
>
> Nothing standard.  I believe that Sets will become a built-in type in
> Python 2.3 (due out any day now), but I don't know whether they'll be
> sortable.  You could probably work out something that uses a dict to
> emulate a set, and keeps a sort()ed list of keys...  I'm sure I've seen
> discussion about sorted dictionaries before, but can't recall whether it
> was here or on comp.lang.python; a bit of trawling through archives and
> google groups might turn something up.


Here a link to that discussion:

    http://mail.python.org/pipermail/tutor/2002-November/018864.html


We can implement a "sorted" map using a data structure called a "Red-Black
Tree".  Chris Gonnerman has written a nice rbtree module:

    http://newcenturycomputers.net/projects/rbtree.html


Hope this helps!



From dyoo@hkn.eecs.berkeley.edu  Thu Jul 24 20:13:03 2003
From: dyoo@hkn.eecs.berkeley.edu (Danny Yoo)
Date: Thu Jul 24 19:13:03 2003
Subject: [Tutor] Password Program
In-Reply-To: <47732771259.20030724182441@columbus.rr.com>
Message-ID: 


On Thu, 24 Jul 2003, R. Alan Monroe wrote:

> > I was wondering if it was possible to have a program in Python ask
> > someone for a user name/password and then encrypt the password, save
> > it to the harddrive, and later, when asked, decrypt the password and
> > tell u what the un/pw is.
>
> I had never looked into this until recently, and I felt really stupid
> for it not having occurred to me. Most sytems encrypt the password in a
> way to where you purposely CAN'T decrypt it. Later, when the user logs
> in, they encrypt whatever the user typed for the password, and compare
> that to the stored encrypted password.
>
> I don't know if there's anything in the stock library that will do
> reversible encryption. Anyone know?


Hi Alan,


There are some trivial ones.  For example, ROT13 --- "rotating" a
character by thirteen places --- is a standard 'encoding' in Python:

###
>>> msg = "This is a test of the emergency broadcast system."
>>> secret = msg.encode('rot13')
>>>
>>> secret
'Guvf vf n grfg bs gur rzretrapl oebnqpnfg flfgrz.'
>>>
>>> secret.encode('rot13')
'This is a test of the emergency broadcast system.'
###


However, I think the Python implementors added it only because it's cute.
Anyone who seriously uses ROT13 to secure secrets should be hung upside
down for a few minutes to bring them to their senses.  *grin*


For doing real encryption, you may want to look at the Python Cryptography
Toolkit:

    http://www.amk.ca/python/code/crypto.html


Hope this helps!



From alan.gauld@blueyonder.co.uk  Fri Jul 25 04:16:02 2003
From: alan.gauld@blueyonder.co.uk (Alan Gauld)
Date: Fri Jul 25 03:16:02 2003
Subject: [Tutor] Anyway to do something like a #define in python?
References: 
Message-ID: <008501c3527c$607c5850$6401a8c0@xp>

> Is there a python equivalent to the C #define?  

Thankfully no, Python has removed the need for such a 
dangerous and ill behaved construct. As indeed has C++ 
where the use of #define (and most other pre-processor 
directives) is deprecated(*).

Now what exactly were you thinking of doing with #define? 
Then we might be able to tell you how to do it safely
in Python :-)

Alan G
(*)If you want to see why #define is evil read the relevant 
chapter in Bjarne Stroustrup's excellent book "The Design 
& Evolution of C++"


From alan.gauld@blueyonder.co.uk  Fri Jul 25 04:21:01 2003
From: alan.gauld@blueyonder.co.uk (Alan Gauld)
Date: Fri Jul 25 03:21:01 2003
Subject: [Tutor] Help with a tutorial
References: 
Message-ID: <008e01c3527d$037eb110$6401a8c0@xp>

> """
> Rewrite the high_low.py program from section 5.2 to use the last two
> digits of time at that moment to be the 'random' number.
> """
> """
> Rewrite the high_low.py program from section 5.2:
>
>     1.  To use the last two digits of time at that moment.
>
>     2.  To be the 'random' number.
> """
>
> Can anyone confirm that this is what Josh meant?

I think its simpler than that. Josh is simply saying use the
time() function to get a number. Take the last two digits
and use them instead of 78 as the target. As Isaac said,
the trick is to 'think strings'

Alan G.




From alan.gauld@blueyonder.co.uk  Fri Jul 25 04:32:01 2003
From: alan.gauld@blueyonder.co.uk (Alan Gauld)
Date: Fri Jul 25 03:32:01 2003
Subject: [Tutor] [OT]Good read
Message-ID: <00ca01c3527e$9ae80640$6401a8c0@xp>

I've just finished the first paper referenced and thought 
I'd share it. It's a fascinating peek into the history of 
programming and computing in general, tracing events from 
the early 60's through to the early '80's and the appearance 
of the Apple Lisa. In particular it looks at the development 
of Smalltalk which has influenced, many languages 
including Pyhon (see, its not totally OT! :-)

-----------------------------
> This isn't quite a book, but it is an excellent read for
> anyone who wants to see how the computers we use today
> evolved... Its a personal history of the development of
> the Smalltalk programming language by its inventor Alan Kay.
> (Published in 1993)
> 
> The link is here, the article is only about 40 pages or so long
> and only the first 10 pages are of general interest, after that
> it gets a bit technical.
> 
> http://www.metaobject.com/papers/Smallhistory.pdf.
> 
> Kay was involved in many of the earliest attempts to produce
> personal computers(and I'm talking 1960's here!) and carried
> that experience thru' to his work with Xerox PARC in the '70's
> It was after seeing Kay's team's results that Steve Jobs went
> off to build a GUI for Apple...
> 
> Its quite remarkable how advanced were the visions of the
> workers back then. And how little we seem to have advanced
> in the intervening 30 years. Although I guess PDAs are actually
> one step further in some aspects than they were aiming for.
> And tablet PCs are very close to the target.
> 
> For a more generalist view of the same thing see Neal Stephenson's
> excellent paper (which is also a real paper book), also linked...
> 
> http://www.cryptonomicon.com/beginning.html
> 
> You need to download the zipped PDF file ...
> 
> Alan G.


From guillermo.fernandez@epfl.ch  Fri Jul 25 07:08:02 2003
From: guillermo.fernandez@epfl.ch (Guillermo Fernandez)
Date: Fri Jul 25 06:08:02 2003
Subject: [Tutor] Password Program
Message-ID: <3F21012E.6020107@epfl.ch>

 >Michie DeBerry wrote:
 >>>Hello peeps,
 >>>I was wondering if it was possible to have a program in Python ask 
 >someone for
 >>>a user name/password and then encrypt the password, save it to the 
 >harddrive,
 >>>and later, when asked, decrypt the password and tell u what the 
un/pw >is.
 >Justin Heath wrote:
 >Check out http://www.python.org/doc/2.2.3/lib/module-crypt.html.

I'm afraid crypt is a one-way hash function, and thus impossible 
(well... or vey difficult :-) to decrypt.

You'll probably find what you want here... at least you have the choice! ;-)
http://www.amk.ca/python/code/crypto.html

If you are a united-stater I guess you can still donwload the sources 
without problems (US relaxed the export controls for encryption software).

Guille



From mwagman@charter.net  Fri Jul 25 10:33:18 2003
From: mwagman@charter.net (Mike Wagman)
Date: Fri Jul 25 09:33:18 2003
Subject: [Tutor] Looking for some utilities
Message-ID: <1059139896.2433.5.camel@24-159-241-21.jvl.wi.charter.com>

I am having to move my development environment  for a program I am
working on from linux to windows, and I am looking for some utilities to
run on windows.

A text editor that supports tabs. While IDLE works great for an editor.
I use a number of information files that I update while I code.
Variable names, functions, to do list, change log, etc and would like to
run them all in one program.

FTP software. Nothing fancy but free with the ability to remember a log
on.

A 2 windows configurable file manager, similar to worker, or gentoo, or
if you remember the old amiga DirWorks,Dir Opus, Disk master.

I know this is a little off topic but I figured there were plently of
people on this list that would know. 



From R. Alan Monroe" 
References: <1059139896.2433.5.camel@24-159-241-21.jvl.wi.charter.com>
Message-ID: <147791760601.20030725104650@columbus.rr.com>

> I am having to move my development environment  for a program I am
> working on from linux to windows, and I am looking for some utilities to
> run on windows.

> A text editor that supports tabs.

Scite, from scintilla.org.



From marc_barry@hotmail.com  Fri Jul 25 11:43:12 2003
From: marc_barry@hotmail.com (Marc Barry)
Date: Fri Jul 25 10:43:12 2003
Subject: [Tutor] Looking for some utilities
Message-ID: 

Mike:

I think that UltraEdit (http://www.ultraedit.com/) is the best windows text 
editor on the market.  Although it isn't free.  It allows for Python (and 
many other languages) syntax highlighting and has a number of tabs at the 
top of the screen that allow you quickly jump from one text file to another. 
  It works perfect for exactly what you have described.  It also has builtin 
FTP and so you can load and save your files directly to the FTP server.  It 
really is agreat product, although I think it costs about $35.00 US.

For a free FTP client Free FTP is okay 
(http://members.aol.com/brandyware/free.htm).  It supports a lot of 
languages.

Sorry, no comments for the file manager.

Marc


From: Mike Wagman 
To: Python List 
Subject: [Tutor] Looking for some utilities
Date: 25 Jul 2003 08:31:36 -0500

I am having to move my development environment  for a program I am
working on from linux to windows, and I am looking for some utilities to
run on windows.

A text editor that supports tabs. While IDLE works great for an editor.
I use a number of information files that I update while I code.
Variable names, functions, to do list, change log, etc and would like to
run them all in one program.

FTP software. Nothing fancy but free with the ability to remember a log
on.

A 2 windows configurable file manager, similar to worker, or gentoo, or
if you remember the old amiga DirWorks,Dir Opus, Disk master.

I know this is a little off topic but I figured there were plently of
people on this list that would know.


_______________________________________________
Tutor maillist  -  Tutor@python.org
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor

_________________________________________________________________
Protect your PC - get McAfee.com VirusScan Online  
http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963



From w.richert@gmx.net  Fri Jul 25 11:45:03 2003
From: w.richert@gmx.net (Willi Richert)
Date: Fri Jul 25 10:45:03 2003
Subject: [Tutor] Sorted dictionaries
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <200307251643.42505.w.richert@gmx.net>

> We can implement a "sorted" map using a data structure called a "Red-Black
> Tree".  Chris Gonnerman has written a nice rbtree module:
>
>     http://newcenturycomputers.net/projects/rbtree.html

BTW, which algorithms work behind dict() and sort() ?

wr



From tim@johnsons-web.com  Fri Jul 25 13:50:07 2003
From: tim@johnsons-web.com (Tim Johnson)
Date: Fri Jul 25 12:50:07 2003
Subject: [Tutor] Looking for some utilities
In-Reply-To: <1059139896.2433.5.camel@24-159-241-21.jvl.wi.charter.com>
References: <1059139896.2433.5.camel@24-159-241-21.jvl.wi.charter.com>
Message-ID: <20030725165404.GM3172@johnsons-web.com>

I work primarily in Linux these days, but want to
mention three that I have used for years and still do
when in windows:

Editor:
  Boxer - www.boxersoftware.com
    Not free, but cheap and hugely configurable, supports
    tabs I believe.

File Manager:
  ZTreeWin: Functionally descended from XTree.
    http://www.ztree.com

FTP Client:
   I still use WS_FTP when I use windows and recommend it to
   my clients. It remembers logons, and it has some nice features
   like local and remote file masks.

   ~tj~

* Mike Wagman  [030725 05:46]:
> I am having to move my development environment  for a program I am
> working on from linux to windows, and I am looking for some utilities to
> run on windows.
> 
> A text editor that supports tabs. While IDLE works great for an editor.
> I use a number of information files that I update while I code.
> Variable names, functions, to do list, change log, etc and would like to
> run them all in one program.
> 
> FTP software. Nothing fancy but free with the ability to remember a log
> on.
> 
> A 2 windows configurable file manager, similar to worker, or gentoo, or
> if you remember the old amiga DirWorks,Dir Opus, Disk master.
> 
> I know this is a little off topic but I figured there were plently of
> people on this list that would know. 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Tutor maillist  -  Tutor@python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor

-- 
Tim Johnson 
      http://www.alaska-internet-solutions.com
      http://www.johnsons-web.com


From mlong@datalong.com  Fri Jul 25 13:54:02 2003
From: mlong@datalong.com (Michael Long)
Date: Fri Jul 25 12:54:02 2003
Subject: [Tutor] Send email w/ outlook
Message-ID: 

Thanks for the information. The smtplib module makes this very simple to
use and the documentation is very good.

Cheers,
Mike

> Instead of working out how to control Outlook, you're probably better 
> off looking at the standard library's email and smtplib modules.  You 
> can generate your own email (with attachments) and send it directly to 
> the server, rather than having to go through the intermediate step of 
> controlling a mail client.
> 
> Both of these modules should have pretty decent documentation.  If you 
> get stuck on anything, ask again here and we'll see what we can work out.
> 
> Jeff Shannon
> Technician/Programmer
> Credit International
> 
> 
> 
> 




From connally@fas.harvard.edu  Fri Jul 25 13:55:03 2003
From: connally@fas.harvard.edu (Emily Lea Connally)
Date: Fri Jul 25 12:55:03 2003
Subject: [Tutor] Looking for some utilities
In-Reply-To: <20030725165404.GM3172@johnsons-web.com>
Message-ID: 

Hey everyone, I'm very new to programming, in fact, Python is my first
language. I've been teaching myself for the past week or so, and I ran
into a problem with the program I'm currently trying to write.
I need to read the file and search for an address that the user had
entered earlier in the program and delete that address if found. Can I do
this using a text file or should I set up a database or what?
Sorry if this question is a little elementary, but I am honestly brand new
to programming and really stuck here. The tutorials I've read online are
helpful, but I still can't seem to get it right.
thanks for any help you can offer
M

*************************************************************************
    Forgiveness is the fragrance the violet sheds on the heel that has
  crushed it.
	- Mark Twain
*************************************************************************




From mlong@datalong.com  Fri Jul 25 14:15:03 2003
From: mlong@datalong.com (Michael Long)
Date: Fri Jul 25 13:15:03 2003
Subject: [Tutor] Send email w/ outlook
Message-ID: 

When I send an email to both my outlook account and my home account I
find that the outlook account adds the subject line properly but my pop
account does not recognize the subject line. The message is defined as
follows:

msg = '''\\
From: Me@my.org
Subject: testin'...

This is a test '''

What am I missing?

Thanks,
Mike

> Thanks for the information. The smtplib module makes this very simple to
> use and the documentation is very good.
> 
> Cheers,
> Mike
> 





From phate@rockriver.net  Fri Jul 25 15:25:03 2003
From: phate@rockriver.net (Michie DeBerry)
Date: Fri Jul 25 14:25:03 2003
Subject: [Tutor] Proxy Clicker
Message-ID: <200307251325.13573.phate@rockriver.net>

Hello Gentleman,
Sry to bother you guys again, and I appreciate all the help that you guys have 
been offering me lately.
I have been searching the documentation, and can't really find anything on 
Proxy's and Sockets. I am in need of a program that will go to a URL through 
one IP address, and search the html till it finds a specific string, this 
being Click here to 
continue. After the program finds the string (it changes every 30 
seconds) it will then go to the url that it finds, once through every proxy. 
Then it will search the second document (the http://www.outwar.com/...) 
untill it finds how many thugs/feet/fans whoever is using the program has.
It is a wonderful idea, and I have a list of proxies that will work, just need 
the code for the program and I'm not really sure on what to do. Any help 
would be helpful.
Thx,
Michie.


From Janssen@rz.uni-frankfurt.de  Fri Jul 25 15:43:02 2003
From: Janssen@rz.uni-frankfurt.de (Michael Janssen)
Date: Fri Jul 25 14:43:02 2003
Subject: [Tutor] textfile or database - has appeared as: Looking for some
 utilities
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: 

[the former subject was from another tread - a bit confusing]

On Fri, 25 Jul 2003, Emily Lea Connally wrote:

> Hey everyone, I'm very new to programming, in fact, Python is my first

Hello Emily.

> language. I've been teaching myself for the past week or so, and I ran
> into a problem with the program I'm currently trying to write.
> I need to read the file and search for an address that the user had
> entered earlier in the program and delete that address if found. Can I do
> this using a text file or should I set up a database or what?

Both are reasonable choises. Databases are faster and has already commands
to search, delete, update entries. Textfiles are simpler to use (you can
e.g. watch and edit them with an editor). Using a textfile ist perhaps
the best choice for a small project.

One important aspect is the organization of the data. Let me explain:
Suppose you have got no data organisation at all, say a file with random
content and something between all kind of stuff is an address. A textfile
is perfekt for this scenario, cause you just have to "search & replace"
the address (replace by nothing to delete it). string.replace(address, '',
file_as_string) would do it.

Suppose you organise your data a bit more and put each single address on a
line by itself (think of a list of email addresses), you can very well use
a textfile, read it in line oriented manner (file_object.readline()), find
the line containing the address and delete it.

Next step. An address can consist of several informations (like phone
number, snail mail address and so on). One way to handle this is to use
identifiers on each line:

"""
phone_number:12345
country:de
....
"""

There is no point in reading such a file line by line any longer. You need
to read it paragraph for paragraph - and you must write your own function/
programm logic for this job. Also deleting an address is now something
slightly different. But anyway, a textfile can hold such informations and
its not that hard to write a script to manipulate these informations.

But when you want to do more and more tricky things like how often was an
address actually used or if you want to combine one type of information
(say addresses) with other types (say payments or bills) you might better
off using a full blown database.


Back to your post: it might well be that you can accomplish your task with
a textfile but that's hard to tell, cause we don't know what your data is
like. In case you havn't got a clue yet, you should post how your textfile
would be organised and which code you have written that far to manipulate
it.


> Sorry if this question is a little elementary,

Well, I find it the strength of tutor, to cope with elementary questions.
I've seen mailing lists that try but were unable to explain simple things
but python-tutor was often able to do so. Who knows? Perhaps some time
somebody exposes a question to tutor, anybody *knows* the answere but -
there's ain't nobody out there who can explain it ;-)

With other words: tutor is the right place to ask simple questions.

Michael


> but I am honestly brand new
> to programming and really stuck here. The tutorials I've read online are
> helpful, but I still can't seem to get it right.
> thanks for any help you can offer
> M
>
> *************************************************************************
>     Forgiveness is the fragrance the violet sheds on the heel that has
>   crushed it.
> 	- Mark Twain
> *************************************************************************
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Tutor maillist  -  Tutor@python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor
>


From mhansen@cso.atmel.com  Fri Jul 25 16:01:45 2003
From: mhansen@cso.atmel.com (Mike Hansen)
Date: Fri Jul 25 15:01:45 2003
Subject: [Tutor] Re: Looking for some utilities
In-Reply-To: <20030725160008.16802.29504.Mailman@mail.python.org>
References: <20030725160008.16802.29504.Mailman@mail.python.org>
Message-ID: <3F217E47.9010703@cso.atmel.com>

I've been using Crimson Editor.

http://www.crimsoneditor.com/

It has syntax highlighting, multiple tabs, ftp.

A great Notepad replacement and all around good text editor is Textpad. 
Syntax highlighting, clip libraries, ...

http://www.textpad.com

If you can wrap your mind around it, many people seem to like emacs.

Mike


>From: Mike Wagman 
>To: Python List 
>Organization: 
>Date: 25 Jul 2003 08:31:36 -0500
>Subject: [Tutor] Looking for some utilities
>
>I am having to move my development environment  for a program I am
>working on from linux to windows, and I am looking for some utilities to
>run on windows.
>
>A text editor that supports tabs. While IDLE works great for an editor.
>I use a number of information files that I update while I code.
>Variable names, functions, to do list, change log, etc and would like to
>run them all in one program.
>
>FTP software. Nothing fancy but free with the ability to remember a log
>on.
>
>A 2 windows configurable file manager, similar to worker, or gentoo, or
>if you remember the old amiga DirWorks,Dir Opus, Disk master.
>
>I know this is a little off topic but I figured there were plently of
>people on this list that would know. 
>  
>



From alan.gauld@blueyonder.co.uk  Fri Jul 25 16:08:02 2003
From: alan.gauld@blueyonder.co.uk (Alan Gauld)
Date: Fri Jul 25 15:08:02 2003
Subject: [Tutor] Looking for some utilities
References: <1059139896.2433.5.camel@24-159-241-21.jvl.wi.charter.com>
Message-ID: <000301c352df$cc026700$6401a8c0@xp>

> I am having to move my development environment  for a program I am
> working on from linux to windows, and I am looking for some
utilities to
> run on windows.

This may be stating the obvious but get a copy of cygwin installed.
It gives you all the Linux tools you are used to(bash, vim, awk, sed,
grep, etc) plus a version of python with GNU readline.

> A text editor that supports tabs.

I'm not sure I know what you mean here. Every editor I've
ever used has supported tabs....

> While IDLE works great for an editor.
> I use a number of information files that I update while I code.
> Variable names, functions, to do list, change log, etc and
> would like to run them all in one program.

Well vim allows you to open multiple windows if thats what
you mean? Or do you mean a ttabbed window inteface ala
Netscape? - the penny drops... Can't help with that I hate
tabbed editors, I prefer multi windows with buffer lists
ala vim or emacs

> FTP software. Nothing fancy but free with the ability
> to remember a log on.

WS-FTP is what I use, seems to work OK.

> A 2 windows configurable file manager, similar to worker, or gentoo,
> if you remember the old amiga DirWorks,Dir Opus, Disk master.

What does that mean in comparison to Windows Explorer?
Personally I tend to just use bash or explorer, between them
they meet my neds.

HTH,

Alan G



From mlong@datalong.com  Fri Jul 25 16:48:01 2003
From: mlong@datalong.com (Michael Long)
Date: Fri Jul 25 15:48:01 2003
Subject: [Tutor] win32file module documentation
Message-ID: 

I would like to use win32file.GetDiskFreeSpace() but do not seem to be
able find any documention on this module. I do not have win32file.py
installed on my machine only win32file.pyd. Is the source available or
at least some documentation explaining input and return values?

Thanks,
Mike


From zak@harlekin-maus.com  Fri Jul 25 17:15:02 2003
From: zak@harlekin-maus.com (Zak Arntson)
Date: Fri Jul 25 16:15:02 2003
Subject: [Tutor] Deal a Random Deck - Challenge
In-Reply-To: <20030718200309.0A4B9F699@xmxpita.excite.com>
References: <20030718200309.0A4B9F699@xmxpita.excite.com>
Message-ID: <2333.192.206.201.217.1059164050.squirrel@mail.harlekin-maus.com>

Here's an interesting problem a coworker (former mentor) uses when hiring:
 * Write an algorithm to deal out a set of "cards"

It's pretty straightforward in C, and here's a port of the C code in Python:
###
import random

def deck(size):
    d = range(size)
    for i in range(size):
        r = random.randrange(i, size)
        temp = d[i]
        d[i] = d[r]
        d[r] = d[i]

    return d
###

You can replace the swap code, but weirdly it's slower to process.
###
import random

def deck2(size):
    d = range(size)
    for i in range(size):
        r = random.randrange(i, size)
        d[i], d[r] = d[r], d[i]

    return d
###

Then my coworker turned around with this solution, which turns out to be
the fastest of the three:
###
import random

def deck3(size):
    d = [(random.random(), i) for i in range(size)]
    d.sort()
    return [d[i][1] for i in range(size)]
###

So my challenge, then: Can anyone come up with an even faster solution
than option 3?

As an aside, I tried this with deck(100000) through the profiler and go
cumtimes as follows: deck = 5.126, deck2 = 5.693, deck3 = 3.327

---
Zak Arntson
www.harlekin-maus.com - Games - Lots of 'em




From SWidney@ci.las-vegas.nv.us  Fri Jul 25 17:43:02 2003
From: SWidney@ci.las-vegas.nv.us (Scott Widney)
Date: Fri Jul 25 16:43:02 2003
Subject: [Tutor] Deal a Random Deck - Challenge
Message-ID: <0E5508EBA1620743B409A2B8365DE16FDC86DF@sovereign.ci.las-vegas.nv.us>

> Here's an interesting problem a coworker (former mentor) uses 
> when hiring:
>  * Write an algorithm to deal out a set of "cards"
> 
> 
> So my challenge, then: Can anyone come up with an even faster solution
> than option 3?
> 

How about the batteries-included approach:

>>> import random, profile
>>> def deck3(size):
... 	d = [(random.random(), i) for i in range(size)]
... 	d.sort()
... 	return [d[i][1] for i in range(size)]
... 
>>> def deck4(size):
... 	d = [i for i in range(size)]
... 	random.shuffle(d)
... 	return d
... 
>>> profile.run('deck3(10000)')
         10003 function calls in 0.520 CPU seconds

>>> profile.run('deck4(10000)')
         10003 function calls in 0.405 CPU seconds

>>> profile.run('deck3(100000)')
         100003 function calls in 5.633 CPU seconds

>>> profile.run('deck4(100000)')
         100003 function calls in 4.043 CPU seconds


The performance of the Standard Library routines never fail to impress me.
Especially those that deal with number-crunching.


Are-you-listening-tim-one?-ly y'rs
Scott


From tpc@csua.berkeley.edu  Fri Jul 25 17:51:02 2003
From: tpc@csua.berkeley.edu (tpc@csua.berkeley.edu)
Date: Fri Jul 25 16:51:02 2003
Subject: [Tutor] [OT] MySQLdb on Redhat 9
Message-ID: <20030725134113.V20475-100000@localhost.name>

hello, I was wondering if anyone has tried to install MySQLdb on Redhat
Linux 9.  I just installed the module and it was fine:

[root@nike download]# rpm -ivh MySQL-python-0.9.2-1.i386.rpm
warning: MySQL-python-0.9.2-1.i386.rpm: V3 DSA signature: NOKEY, key ID
930b8ab6
Preparing...                ###########################################
[100%]
   1:MySQL-python           ###########################################
[100%]

though now when I try to run a python script that imports MySQLdb it says
"ImportError: No module named MySQLdb".

It is strange because rpm -qa | grep MySQL shows:

[root@nike local]# rpm -qa | grep MySQL
perl-DBD-MySQL-2.1021-3
MySQL-python-0.9.2-1
MySQL-shared-3.23.56-1.0.23
MySQL-client-4.0.14-0
MySQL-server-4.0.14-0

although when I try to find MySQLdb.py I cannot.



From tim@johnsons-web.com  Fri Jul 25 17:58:01 2003
From: tim@johnsons-web.com (Tim Johnson)
Date: Fri Jul 25 16:58:01 2003
Subject: [Tutor] Looking for some utilities
In-Reply-To: <000301c352df$cc026700$6401a8c0@xp>
References: <1059139896.2433.5.camel@24-159-241-21.jvl.wi.charter.com> <000301c352df$cc026700$6401a8c0@xp>
Message-ID: <20030725210354.GA9120@johnsons-web.com>

* Alan Gauld  [030725 11:24]:
> 
> > I am having to move my development environment  for a program I am
> > working on from linux to windows, and I am looking for some
> utilities to
> > run on windows.
> 
> This may be stating the obvious but get a copy of cygwin installed.
> It gives you all the Linux tools you are used to(bash, vim, awk, sed,
> grep, etc) plus a version of python with GNU readline.
> 
> > A text editor that supports tabs.
> 
> I'm not sure I know what you mean here. Every editor I've
> ever used has supported tabs....
> 
> > While IDLE works great for an editor.
> > I use a number of information files that I update while I code.
> > Variable names, functions, to do list, change log, etc and
> > would like to run them all in one program.
> 
> Well vim allows you to open multiple windows if thats what
> you mean? Or do you mean a ttabbed window inteface ala
> Netscape? - the penny drops... Can't help with that I hate
> tabbed editors, I prefer multi windows with buffer lists
> ala vim or emacs
> 
> > FTP software. Nothing fancy but free with the ability
> > to remember a log on.
> 
> WS-FTP is what I use, seems to work OK.
> 
> > A 2 windows configurable file manager, similar to worker, or gentoo,
> > if you remember the old amiga DirWorks,Dir Opus, Disk master.
> 
> What does that mean in comparison to Windows Explorer?
> Personally I tend to just use bash or explorer, between them
> they meet my neds.

 Probably veering even further off-topic here, but I'll go
 a step further than Alan and suggest that Win4Lin, available
 at www.netraverse.com allows windows desktop and virtual machine
 (unique I.P. address) to be run from Linux. 
 Hahaha! and when Windows crashes, you just reboot it from the
 xterm command line in 10 seconds or less. 
 You can then share the same filesystem - I can use Vim or emacs
 from linux and edit, deploy for windows without switching desktops
 or doing a dual-boot.

 and it costs less than a Night on the Town.
 tim
-- 
Tim Johnson 
      http://www.alaska-internet-solutions.com
      http://www.johnsons-web.com


From nas-pytut@python.ca  Fri Jul 25 18:06:02 2003
From: nas-pytut@python.ca (Neil Schemenauer)
Date: Fri Jul 25 17:06:02 2003
Subject: [Tutor] Deal a Random Deck - Challenge
In-Reply-To: <2333.192.206.201.217.1059164050.squirrel@mail.harlekin-maus.com>
References: <20030718200309.0A4B9F699@xmxpita.excite.com> <2333.192.206.201.217.1059164050.squirrel@mail.harlekin-maus.com>
Message-ID: <20030725211030.GA11331@glacier.arctrix.com>

Zak Arntson wrote:
> Here's an interesting problem a coworker (former mentor) uses when hiring:
>  * Write an algorithm to deal out a set of "cards"
> 
> It's pretty straightforward in C, and here's a port of the C code in Python:

Straightforward to do poorly. :-)  I think all of the solutuions you
posted are biased.  See:

    http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCKEDFGNAA.tim_one%40email.msn.com

Cheers,

  Neil


From zak@harlekin-maus.com  Fri Jul 25 18:10:02 2003
From: zak@harlekin-maus.com (Zak Arntson)
Date: Fri Jul 25 17:10:02 2003
Subject: [Tutor] Deal a Random Deck - Challenge
In-Reply-To: <0E5508EBA1620743B409A2B8365DE16FDC86DF@sovereign.ci.las-vegas.nv.us>
References: <0E5508EBA1620743B409A2B8365DE16FDC86DF@sovereign.ci.las-vegas.nv.us>
Message-ID: <2631.192.206.201.217.1059167378.squirrel@mail.harlekin-maus.com>

Even better, see deck5 (following your advice on built-in functions! :)

>>> def deck4(size):
 ... 	d = [i for i in range(size)]
 ... 	random.shuffle(d)
 ... 	return d
 ...
>>> def deck5(size):
 ...   d = range(size)
 ...   random.shuffle(d)
 ...   return d

>>> profile.run('deck4(10000)')
          10003 function calls in 0.272 CPU seconds

>>> profile.run('deck5(10000)')
          10003 function calls in 0.262 CPU seconds

>>> profile.run('deck4(100000)')
          100003 function calls in 2.852 CPU seconds

>>> profile.run('deck5(100000)')
          100003 function calls in 2.688 CPU seconds

---
Zak Arntson
www.harlekin-maus.com - Games - Lots of 'em




From zak@harlekin-maus.com  Fri Jul 25 18:25:02 2003
From: zak@harlekin-maus.com (Zak Arntson)
Date: Fri Jul 25 17:25:02 2003
Subject: [Tutor] Deal a Random Deck - Challenge
In-Reply-To: <20030725211030.GA11331@glacier.arctrix.com>
References: <20030718200309.0A4B9F699@xmxpita.excite.com>
 <2333.192.206.201.217.1059164050.squirrel@mail.harlekin-maus.com>
 <20030725211030.GA11331@glacier.arctrix.com>
Message-ID: <2696.192.206.201.217.1059168257.squirrel@mail.harlekin-maus.com>

> Straightforward to do poorly. :-)  I think all of the solutuions you
> posted are biased.  See:
>
>     http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCKEDFGNAA.tim_one%40email.msn.com
>
> Cheers,
>   Neil

Wow! Thanks for pointing that out. Well, all the solutions aside from the
random.shuffle() one. :)

---
Zak Arntson
www.harlekin-maus.com - Games - Lots of 'em




From SWidney@ci.las-vegas.nv.us  Fri Jul 25 18:39:02 2003
From: SWidney@ci.las-vegas.nv.us (Scott Widney)
Date: Fri Jul 25 17:39:02 2003
Subject: [Tutor] Deal a Random Deck - Challenge
Message-ID: <0E5508EBA1620743B409A2B8365DE16FDC86E1@sovereign.ci.las-vegas.nv.us>

> Even better, see deck5 (following your advice on built-in 
> functions! :)
> 
> >>> def deck4(size):
>  ... 	d = [i for i in range(size)]
>  ... 	random.shuffle(d)
>  ... 	return d
>  ...
> >>> def deck5(size):
>  ...   d = range(size)
>  ...   random.shuffle(d)
>  ...   return d
> 
> >>> profile.run('deck4(10000)')
>           10003 function calls in 0.272 CPU seconds
> 
> >>> profile.run('deck5(10000)')
>           10003 function calls in 0.262 CPU seconds
> 
> >>> profile.run('deck4(100000)')
>           100003 function calls in 2.852 CPU seconds
> 
> >>> profile.run('deck5(100000)')
>           100003 function calls in 2.688 CPU seconds

Good call! I don't know why I left that list comprehension in there....
I also failed to warn that random.shuffle() mutates the list in-place, so
you don't want to try something like:

...     return random.shuffle(d)

because you'll get None.


Scott


From roypython@hotmail.com  Fri Jul 25 19:43:01 2003
From: roypython@hotmail.com (roy ollis)
Date: Fri Jul 25 18:43:01 2003
Subject: [Tutor] (no subject)
Message-ID: 


while looking for python books i came across "the complete python training course" but there are two versions.  can anyone tell me the difference?  and which is better.  the strange thing is one version lists at $109 but is as cheap as $68 someplaces.  the other lists at $85 and is as cheap as $70.  and i believe both include a python book that sells for $85 alone.  i'm leaning for the 109 version but being discounted so much is it out of date?

STOP MORE SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE*


From dyoo@hkn.eecs.berkeley.edu  Fri Jul 25 20:05:02 2003
From: dyoo@hkn.eecs.berkeley.edu (Danny Yoo)
Date: Fri Jul 25 19:05:02 2003
Subject: [Tutor] [OT] MySQLdb on Redhat 9
In-Reply-To: <20030725134113.V20475-100000@localhost.name>
Message-ID: 


On Fri, 25 Jul 2003 tpc@csua.berkeley.edu wrote:

> hello, I was wondering if anyone has tried to install MySQLdb on Redhat
> Linux 9.  I just installed the module and it was fine:
>
> [root@nike download]# rpm -ivh MySQL-python-0.9.2-1.i386.rpm
> warning: MySQL-python-0.9.2-1.i386.rpm: V3 DSA signature: NOKEY, key ID
> 930b8ab6
> Preparing...                ###########################################
> [100%]
>    1:MySQL-python           ###########################################
> [100%]
>
> though now when I try to run a python script that imports MySQLdb it
> says "ImportError: No module named MySQLdb".


Hi tpc,

Let's check something really quickly: are you using the standard Python
that comes with Red Hat, or a locally-installed version?  Check with:

    $ which python

at your shell prompt and tell us what you get.


In the same vein, try:

    $ /usr/bin/python

and from there, see if you can do 'import MySQLdb' --- this should be
successful.

If you're using a locally installed Python, then you probably need to
install the MySQLdb module from the source, since the RPM packages are
designed to work only with the Python that comes in the Red Hat
distribution.


This might not be the cause of the problem, but it's highly likely.
*grin*  Good luck to you!



From dyoo@hkn.eecs.berkeley.edu  Fri Jul 25 20:30:01 2003
From: dyoo@hkn.eecs.berkeley.edu (Danny Yoo)
Date: Fri Jul 25 19:30:01 2003
Subject: [Tutor] Sorted dictionaries
In-Reply-To: <200307251643.42505.w.richert@gmx.net>
Message-ID: 

On Fri, 25 Jul 2003, Willi Richert wrote:

> > We can implement a "sorted" map using a data structure called a
> > "Red-Black Tree".  Chris Gonnerman has written a nice rbtree module:
> >
> >     http://newcenturycomputers.net/projects/rbtree.html
>
> BTW, which algorithms work behind dict() and sort() ?

Hi Willi,


Python's Dictionary type is based on a classic data structure called a
"hash table".  If you'd like, we can give a small introduction on hash
tables to get a feel for how they work.  I think I wrote something about
it a year or so ago on Python-Tutor, but I'm having a hard time finding
it...

Also, you can always look at Python's source code if you're interested in
the primary literature.  *grin* Seriously though, most of Python's source
code is fairly readable, and it's sorta neat to see how it all the gears
work.  Here's a link to the 'dictobject.c' source:

http://cvs.sourceforge.net/cgi-bin/viewcvs.cgi/python/python/dist/src/Objects/dictobject.c?rev=HEAD&content-type=text/vnd.viewcvs-markup

as well as development notes:

http://cvs.sourceforge.net/cgi-bin/viewcvs.cgi/python/python/dist/src/Objects/dictnotes.txt?rev=HEAD&content-type=text/vnd.viewcvs-markup



The sort() method of lists had used an algorithm called 'samplesort' to
minimize the number of comparisons it used.  But around the middle of
2002, Tim Peters thought about sorting a bit:

    http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2002-July/026837.html

This thread is actually a lot of fun to read!  The end result was that the
sorting routine that Python uses was completely overhauled, and recent
versions of Python now use "timsort":

    http://pythonowns.blogspot.com/2002_07_28_pythonowns_archive.html


Good luck!



From tpc@csua.berkeley.edu  Fri Jul 25 20:41:46 2003
From: tpc@csua.berkeley.edu (tpc@csua.berkeley.edu)
Date: Fri Jul 25 19:41:46 2003
Subject: [Tutor] [OT] MySQLdb on Redhat 9
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <20030725161557.M21060-100000@localhost.name>

hi Danny, I upgraded the standard RH9 Python 2.2 to 2.2.3.  When I do a
which and whereis python I get:


[tpc@nike html]# which python
/usr/bin/python
[tpc@nike html]# whereis python
python: /usr/bin/python2.2 /usr/bin/python /usr/lib/python2.2
/usr/lib/python1.5 /usr/include/python2.2 /usr/share/man/man1/python.1.gz


and I do what you suggested:


[tpc@nike html]# /usr/bin/python
Python 2.2.3 (#1, Jun 16 2003, 13:21:11)
[GCC 3.2.2 20030222 (Red Hat Linux 3.2.2-5)] on linux2
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> import MySQLdb
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "", line 1, in ?
ImportError: No module named MySQLdb


but to no avail.  I did try python setup.py build but it seems to have
problems building '_mysql' extension and gives me:

error: command 'gcc' failed with exit status 1

I guess I think about doing another clean reinstall of Redhat 9 and not
upgrading anything.  I was finally able to get idle installed and
working by upgrading from the python 2.2.3 rpms from python.org.  I have
a sample of the error messages from python setup.py build:


running build_ext
building '_mysql' extension
creating build/temp.linux-i686-2.2
gcc -DNDEBUG -O2 -g -pipe -march=i386 -mcpu=i686 -D_GNU_SOURCE -fPIC -fPIC
-I/usr/include/mysql -I/usr/local/include/mysql
-I/usr/local/mysql/include/mysql -I/usr/include/python2.2 -c _mysql.c -o
build/temp.linux-i686-2.2/_mysql.o
_mysql.c:41:19: mysql.h: No such file or directory
_mysql.c:42:26: mysqld_error.h: No such file or directory
_mysql.c:43:20: errmsg.h: No such file or directory
_mysql.c:73: parse error before "MYSQL"
_mysql.c:73: warning: no semicolon at end of struct or union
_mysql.c:76: parse error before '}' token
_mysql.c:76: warning: data definition has no type or storage class
_mysql.c:87: parse error before "MYSQL_RES"
_mysql.c:87: warning: no semicolon at end of struct or union
_mysql.c:91: parse error before '}' token
_mysql.c:91: warning: data definition has no type or storage class
_mysql.c:103: parse error before '*' token


On Fri, 25 Jul 2003, Danny Yoo wrote:

>
>
> On Fri, 25 Jul 2003 tpc@csua.berkeley.edu wrote:
>
> > hello, I was wondering if anyone has tried to install MySQLdb on Redhat
> > Linux 9.  I just installed the module and it was fine:
> >
> > [root@nike download]# rpm -ivh MySQL-python-0.9.2-1.i386.rpm
> > warning: MySQL-python-0.9.2-1.i386.rpm: V3 DSA signature: NOKEY, key ID
> > 930b8ab6
> > Preparing...                ###########################################
> > [100%]
> >    1:MySQL-python           ###########################################
> > [100%]
> >
> > though now when I try to run a python script that imports MySQLdb it
> > says "ImportError: No module named MySQLdb".
>
>
> Hi tpc,
>
> Let's check something really quickly: are you using the standard Python
> that comes with Red Hat, or a locally-installed version?  Check with:
>
>     $ which python
>
> at your shell prompt and tell us what you get.
>
>
> In the same vein, try:
>
>     $ /usr/bin/python
>
> and from there, see if you can do 'import MySQLdb' --- this should be
> successful.
>
> If you're using a locally installed Python, then you probably need to
> install the MySQLdb module from the source, since the RPM packages are
> designed to work only with the Python that comes in the Red Hat
> distribution.
>
>
> This might not be the cause of the problem, but it's highly likely.
> *grin*  Good luck to you!
>
>



From dyoo@hkn.eecs.berkeley.edu  Fri Jul 25 20:46:02 2003
From: dyoo@hkn.eecs.berkeley.edu (Danny Yoo)
Date: Fri Jul 25 19:46:02 2003
Subject: [Tutor] Looking for some utilities
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 


On Fri, 25 Jul 2003, Emily Lea Connally wrote:

> Hey everyone, I'm very new to programming, in fact, Python is my first
> language.

Hi Emily, welcome aboard!


> I need to read the file and search for an address that the user had
> entered earlier in the program and delete that address if found.

Sounds good so far.


> Can I do this using a text file or should I set up a database or what?
> Sorry if this question is a little elementary, but I am honestly brand
> new to programming and really stuck here.

No problem.  Your program sounds like a kind of "filtering" task, where we
try to only keep things that fit a certain criteria.  Here's an concrete
example of filtering a list of numbers for "even" numbers:

###
>>> numbers = range(20)
>>> def is_even(x):
...     return x % 2 == 0
...
>>> filtered_numbers = []
>>> for num in numbers:
...     if is_even(num):
...         filtered_numbers.append(num)
...
>>> filtered_numbers
[0, 2, 4, 6, 8, 10, 12, 14, 16, 18]
###

Here, our "criteria" is checking to see if a number "is_even()".  The idea
of filtering is general enough that it'll apply to any list of elements
--- not just numbers.


If you load your address file into a list, you can apply a similar
filtering, and then write the filtered result back to disk.  Doing
manipulations (like deleting or inserting elements) is easy to do on
lists, so if your entire address book can fit in memory, the
list-manipulation approach should work well.


It's not the most "efficient" way to do things, but it's simple.  *grin*
There are other approaches to your problem, and we can talk about them if
you'd like.


Please feel free to ask questions on Tutor; we'll be happy to help!



From klappnase@freenet.de  Fri Jul 25 20:50:02 2003
From: klappnase@freenet.de (klappnase@freenet.de)
Date: Fri Jul 25 19:50:02 2003
Subject: [Tutor] [OT] MySQLdb on Redhat 9
Message-ID: 
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=



From dyoo@hkn.eecs.berkeley.edu  Fri Jul 25 20:56:02 2003
From: dyoo@hkn.eecs.berkeley.edu (Danny Yoo)
Date: Fri Jul 25 19:56:02 2003
Subject: [Tutor] [OT] MySQLdb on Redhat 9
In-Reply-To: <20030725161557.M21060-100000@localhost.name>
Message-ID: 

> I have a sample of the error messages from python setup.py build:
>
> 
> running build_ext
> building '_mysql' extension
> creating build/temp.linux-i686-2.2
> gcc -DNDEBUG -O2 -g -pipe -march=i386 -mcpu=i686 -D_GNU_SOURCE -fPIC -fPIC
> -I/usr/include/mysql -I/usr/local/include/mysql
> -I/usr/local/mysql/include/mysql -I/usr/include/python2.2 -c _mysql.c -o
> build/temp.linux-i686-2.2/_mysql.o
> _mysql.c:41:19: mysql.h: No such file or directory


Ah.  Ok, I see: the C compiler is having a hard time finding the
"development" header files for MySQL.  The line above:

> -I/usr/include/mysql -I/usr/local/include/mysql
> -I/usr/local/mysql/include/mysql -I/usr/include/python2.2 -c _mysql.c -o

are saying "I'll look for these header files in /usr/include/mysql,
/usr/local/include/mysql, and /usr/local/mysql/include/mysql."  Three
strikes, I guess.  *grin*


Do you have the mysql-devel RPM package installed?  You'll need that
before trying to compile MySQLdb locally.  Also, once you have that
development RPM installed, can you do a:

   $ rpm -ql mysql-devel

and show us the output?  That command tells us where the files of the
package are going to, and I just need to make sure it's putting the
development headers in the right place.


This is not quite a Python-Tutor topic; we may want to move this off list
until we get it resolved.  Tpc, email me privately, and we'll give a
summary of what we did on Python-Tutor once we fix the problem.


Installation issues are always a pain... but let's see if we can get this
one licked fast.  Good luck!



From idiot1@netzero.net  Fri Jul 25 21:00:01 2003
From: idiot1@netzero.net (Kirk Bailey)
Date: Fri Jul 25 20:00:01 2003
Subject: [Tutor] wiki WORDS
Message-ID: <3F21ADF9.9080302@netzero.net>

OK, I thnk I want to code a wiki.
The one I have uses one script for all functions, and is very much into classes and 
object oriented; which I do not yet grasp at all well. Also, it encodes headers and 
footers into the code. IMHO, this is not a Great Good Thing(tm) because it makes it hard 
as heck for one to customize the appearance of the pages, whereas reading in and spewing 
the header and footer of the page would lend itself to convient editing of the wiki's 
appearance.

Also, this thing puts all functions in a single script; complex and confusing. However, 
If I do things in modules, this will simplify somewhat.

One program is a reader. Reads in the header file, requested page, and footer file. 
Second part reads through the result, parsing imbedded markup and builting up a result 
string, then squirting that at stdout.

Another is an editor. It sends a page with a simple textarea form containing the raw 
text of the body of the page. Form output goes to a script that saves that, and returns 
header, that new page, and footer as a result screen.

Now this will take a little while to code up. If anyone wants to stick an ore in the 
water with me, you are hereby invited. Although we COULD discuss it here (and I for one 
would welcome the community's comments and suggestions if this is acceptable), I suggest 
that a better place would be on the wiki already working, or on a list hosted at the 
tinylist site.
http://www.tinylist.org/
-- 

-- 

end

Cheers!
         Kirk D Bailey

  +                              think                                +
   http://www.howlermonkey.net  +-----+        http://www.tinylist.org
   http://www.listville.net     | BOX |  http://www.sacredelectron.org
   Thou art free"-ERIS          +-----+     'Got a light?'-Promethieus
  +                              think                                +

Fnord.





From idiot1@netzero.net  Fri Jul 25 21:00:14 2003
From: idiot1@netzero.net (Kirk Bailey)
Date: Fri Jul 25 20:00:14 2003
Subject: [Tutor] Password Program
In-Reply-To: <47732771259.20030724182441@columbus.rr.com>
References: <200307241707.01921.phate@rockriver.net> <47732771259.20030724182441@columbus.rr.com>
Message-ID: <3F21AAD8.5030403@netzero.net>


R. Alan Monroe wrote:

>>I was wondering if it was possible to have a program in Python ask someone for
>>a user name/password and then encrypt the password, save it to the harddrive, 
>>and later, when asked, decrypt the password and tell u what the un/pw is.
> 
> 
> I had never looked into this until recently, and I felt really stupid
> for it not having occurred to me. Most sytems enrypt the password in a
> way to where you purposely CAN'T decrypt it. Later, when the user logs
> in, they encrypt whatever the user typed for the password, and compare
> that to the stored encrypted password.
> 
> I don't know if there's anything in the stock library that will do
> reversible encryption. Anyone know?
> 
> Alan
Not a clue, but a brute force attack with a good guesser program will soon crack that, 
unless you do soething to hamper guessing. I used the time module in a password 
protected function of some importance to introduce a several second delay to purposely 
inconvience password guessing. Just thought I would toss in this idea as a small tool to 
hamper cracking passwords with guessing attacks.

Also, many people generally use a word with a single number at the end. a simple way to 
make this much harder to crack means to slap another number on the other end, and not 
the same number, or even one in the middle as well.  This will let you create a password 
that is easy to remember, but hard to guess.

Also, I seem to recall that better logon routines limit the number of trys before the 
program aborts. Then you have to start the login procedure all over again, andother 
inconviencing of the guesser routine.

Limiting connections does limit the number of guesser program connections that can 
simultaniously attack the server, but this also create a vulnerability to DOS attacks- 
if it only allows 5 connections, and mr cracker has 5 bots guessing passwords, you can't 
get into your own server, except from the console, a distressing situation.

Hope some of the ruminations prove to be of some value.
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Tutor maillist  -  Tutor@python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor
> 
> 

-- 

-- 

end

Cheers!
         Kirk D Bailey

  +                              think                                +
   http://www.howlermonkey.net  +-----+        http://www.tinylist.org
   http://www.listville.net     | BOX |  http://www.sacredelectron.org
   Thou art free"-ERIS          +-----+     'Got a light?'-Promethieus
  +                              think                                +

Fnord.




From sigurd@12move.de  Fri Jul 25 22:24:01 2003
From: sigurd@12move.de (Karl =?iso-8859-1?q?Pfl=E4sterer?=)
Date: Fri Jul 25 21:24:01 2003
Subject: [Tutor] wiki WORDS
In-Reply-To: <3F21ADF9.9080302@netzero.net> (Kirk Bailey's message of "Fri,
 25 Jul 2003 18:23:53 -0400")
References: <3F21ADF9.9080302@netzero.net>
Message-ID: 

On 26 Jul 2003, Kirk Bailey <- idiot1@netzero.net wrote:


[...]
> discuss it here (and I for one would welcome the community's comments
> and suggestions if this is acceptable), I suggest that a better place
> would be on the wiki already working, or on a list hosted at the
> tinylist site.
> http://www.tinylist.org/

If I read right you use at the moment PikiPiki as Wiki software.  Are
you aware of MoinMoin Wiki another descendant of PikiPiki?  Or does your
critique also apply to that code?


   Karl
-- 
Please do *not* send copies of replies to me.
I read the list



From idiot1@netzero.net  Fri Jul 25 23:31:45 2003
From: idiot1@netzero.net (Kirk Bailey)
Date: Fri Jul 25 22:31:45 2003
Subject: [Tutor] a screed from a top down mind about a bottom up language
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <3F21E7C5.7040103@netzero.net>

----preface to already written letter-------------------------------------------------
SCREED- screaming creed.

Ya know, after looking this letter over, I don't THINK it will step on any toes, and
it was not intended to; but some people ARE VERY FOND of python, myself included, and
MIGHT take this letter the wrong way, so let me make this very clear:

I LOVE THIS LANGUAGE AND IT'S COMMUNITY.

But right now I am looking at doing something rather different than I ever did before, 
and I am quite fustrated in certain mechanics of the language in how they oppose the 
creative process.

on to the letter!
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

ARG! (orcish 'oy')

Well, it's a scripting language. It has to embrace certain limitations. I'm just
grinding my teeth trying to unravel some ideas and pull this together, while
thinking in 2 different directions- top down, and bottom up. It's a bit stressful.

Python and a number of other languages have a common characteristic.
They are bottom up. And after much consideration, I have concluded that this
property truely sucks. IN ANY LANGUAGE.

I do not think bottom up, but top down. The language I use should allow me to
write this way. it does not. I cannot write a program in python without abandoning
my greatest assett. This is not unique to python, BTW.

Proceeding from most general to most specific, I would define terms and
functions, and layer by layer refine the definition, going into more detail,
until finally defining the lower levels with existing python words methods,
ectera. As long as all terms are defined legally by the time I end my program,
it should work. And each level outlines the shape of the next, speeding the design.

Let's take a whack at managing an employee database:

#SOURCECODE RENTASERF EMPLOYEE DATABASE MANAGER V:5.67 IN BOTSYAP2.1(C)2005 YODABOTS
#
#####MAIN DO LOOP####
DO:
start
crunch
displayresults
shutdown
# FOLLOWING EXIT ONLY ENOUNTERED IF SOMETHING ABORTS DO TO ERROR!
EXIT('FATALERROR IN MODULE'+$LASTFUNCTION)
DONE;
######DEFINITIONS FOLLOW###########
def start:
readoptionsfile
buildalistofallfiles
readallfilesinlist
clearscreen
greetuser
;
#
def crunch:
# a null input is just hitting the enter key.
input='Y'
while input:
	displayfiledata
	editfiledata
	savefiledata
promptuserforinput
;
#
def displayresults:
for file in listofallfiles:
	displayfiledata
	promptuserforakey
;
#
def shutdown:
verifyflushallbuffers
closeallfiles
clearscreen
restoreterminal
#EXIT HERE IF NO ERROR. ERROR IN ANY FUNCTION ABORTS AND RETURNS TO DO LOOP
EXIT('ok')
;
###END OF PSEUDOCODE###

that goes from most abstract to incresingly specific. In time the thing would
have gone on to SOON become a real no kidding application.

And it would work. Because it's top down. Granted, to get it all right, the computer
has to traverse the thing many times, creating intermediate links, tables, temp files, 
and finally cooking it all down to a nice straightforward file of code which will run. 
This is either stored in the computer's mass data storage device, or lives in memory, 
runs, then evaporates at the job's end, I don't much care which. (In the long run, this
would be less expensive in computer power if it was compiled and saved as executable 
code; yuou only have to compile it once. Even if it's intermediate code which is 
interpeted, the huge majority of the work is DONE.)

Lots of work for the computer to be sure, but memory is cheap, clockticks are cheap,
and as long as the elecrons keep coming, IT DON'T CARE, it grinds away. And my 
devlopment time is RIPPED to a fraction of it's bottom up time. And that's GOOD,
'cause I am NOT cheap. People are expensive.

In time, every word would be defined in other words, or in default primitives of the 
language. But python works from the other end, and this gets in it's own way. I don't 
know how to code a low level item as I do not know how it plugs into the middle layer 
item which I do not know how it plugs into a high level item, and at the same time I
am trying to work out the scheme of overall operation anc convert it into high and 
medium and low code, all at once. I am ossilating back and forth from top to bottom
to top and so on and on and on and my brain is going to !SCREAM! fairly soon now.
This is not a language thing. This is a thinking thing. The language is simply
blocking the strait path, providing it with a complex maze to thread. in the dark. no map.

This is not unique to python; many languages are this way, even when they do not
HAVE to be this way. In fact, there seems to be some sort of twisted concept
that this is actually VIRTUEOUS somehow, to be bottom up. What virtue beyond hardship 
for hardship's sake is thus served escapes me.

POLICY #1
Computers exist for the sake of people, not vice versa.
Let this be a basic ethic of computing for all time. We should and ought to define
them, not they us.

POLICY #2
Computers are VERY FAST IDIOTS. *PEOPLE* are creative. Each should Stick to it's forte.
Computers are very good at uncreatively crunching math, bit logic, shuffling data,
storing data, SERVING data, and flipping control swiches on and off, FAST.
They should do their thing and get out of the way, and let you and me get on with
the sloppy and mysterious work of being fountainheads of creativity. They should
assist that process, or AT THE LEAST avoid HINDERING it.

POLICY#3
Chips are CHEAP. Iron is CHEAP. CLOCKCYCLES are CHEAP. MANHOURS are expensive.
Therefore, we should invest a LOT of cash in providing ourselves with tools which 
conserve expensive resources, such as YOU and ME. Computers chould be organized with 
operating systems and user interfaces and languages which empower, not enslave.
Bondage and Disipline languages should be SHUNNED in all commercial endeavors unless
absolutely essencial to the venture. Languages, GUI's and OPSYS' which are broken, 
flakey, brittle, obstructionistic, mind numbing, or untrustworthy should be ERASED and
REPLACED.

(I think that may have just condemned a certain firm in Redmond, but who cares)


Python is a wonderful language, in that it is high level, and has so very many great 
functions already worked up and sitting on the library shelf waiting to he stacked 
together in some wonderful new product, and in it's easy readibility and quick
learning curve. Also, it has the finest community of users I have ever seen, except 
MAYBE for the Linux community, and I strongly suspect there is considerable overlap.

Because it is interepeted, and executes things as it encounters them,
on the fly, It HAS to define things before it can encounter a reference to them in 
another definition, or as a command to do something. This is bottom up. But bottom up 
inherently hobbles human creativity. Look how wonderful python already is at
enhancing programmer output.

IMAGINE HOW MUCH MORE IT COULD DO IF IT WAS IN HARMONY WITH NATURAL HUMAN CREATIVITY.

Think about the possibilities for a while...








end

Cheers!
         Kirk D Bailey

  +                              think                                +
   http://www.howlermonkey.net  +-----+        http://www.tinylist.org
   http://www.listville.net     | BOX |  http://www.sacredelectron.org
   Thou art free"-ERIS          +-----+     'Got a light?'-Promethieus
  +                              think                                +

Fnord.



From DRobertson@Covenant.com  Sat Jul 26 01:22:02 2003
From: DRobertson@Covenant.com (Robertson, David S.)
Date: Sat Jul 26 00:22:02 2003
Subject: [Tutor] Line Continuation Confusion
Message-ID: <00BBF6F79C12644E9F83EA55929390E1023BBCEE@mars.covenant.com>

This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand
this format, some or all of this message may not be legible.

------_=_NextPart_001_01C3532D.50243610
Content-Type: text/plain


Greetings and thanks to all.  Although I have been programming for many
years, I am new to Python; this list has already been a great help in
climbing the learning curve!  Now my question:

I have read several books about line continuation in Python, and I am told
consistently that "Python also joins adjacent physical lines into one
logical line if an open parenthesis ((), bracket ([), or brace ({) has not
yet been closed."  ("Python in a Nutshell", Alex Martelli, O'Reilly)  

But when I try to run the following code, I get complaints from Python
unless I use backslashes at the end of each line.  Why doesn't the open
parentheses after "execute" hold the statement open until the closing
parentheses?

oCursor.execute("SELECT count(*) 
		FROM SchoolPlans  
		WHERE SchoolsId = 1;")

(BTW: I have, of course, tried making this statement all one line:  it works
great.  It just ain't very readable!)

Many thanks in advance.
_david







------_=_NextPart_001_01C3532D.50243610
Content-Type: text/html
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable






Line Continuation Confusion






Greetings and thanks to all.  Although I have =
been programming for many years, I am new to Python; this list has =
already been a great help in climbing the learning curve!  Now my =
question:



I have read several books about line continuation in =
Python, and I am told consistently that "Python also joins =
adjacent physical lines into one logical line if an open parenthesis =
((), bracket ([), or brace ({) has not yet been closed."  =
("Python in a Nutshell", Alex Martelli, O'Reilly)  =




But when I try to run the following code, I get =
complaints from Python unless I use backslashes at the end of each =
line.  Why doesn't the open parentheses after "execute" =
hold the statement open until the closing parentheses?



oCursor.execute("SELECT count(*) 

        =
        FROM =
SchoolPlans  

        =
        WHERE =
SchoolsId =3D 1;")




(BTW: I have, of course, tried making this statement =
all one line:  it works great.  It just ain't very =
readable!)




Many thanks in advance.

_david















------_=_NextPart_001_01C3532D.50243610--


From Nitin  Gangahar" 

Hello!
       I think Alan's absolutely right.I've got the code here it 
is:
import time
mytime=time.localtime( )
number=mytime[4]
guess=-1

while guess != number:
     guess = input("Guess a number: ")

     if guess > number :
         print "Too high"

     elif guess < number :
             print "Too low"

print "Just right"






>"""
>Rewrite the high_low.py program from section 5.2 to use the last 
>two
>digits of time at that moment to be the 'random' number.
>"""
>"""
>Rewrite the high_low.py program from section 5.2:
>
>     1.  To use the last two digits of time at that moment.
>
>     2.  To be the 'random' number.
>"""
>
>Can anyone confirm that this is what Josh meant?

>I think its simpler than that. Josh is simply saying use the
>time() function to get a number. Take the last two digits
>and use them instead of 78 as the target. As Isaac said,
>the trick is to 'think strings'
>
>Alan G.
___________________________________________________
Download the hottest & happening ringtones here!
OR SMS: Top tone to 7333
Click here now: 
http://sms.rediff.com/cgi-bin/ringtone/ringhome.pl




From glingl@aon.at  Sat Jul 26 03:35:02 2003
From: glingl@aon.at (Gregor Lingl)
Date: Sat Jul 26 02:35:02 2003
Subject: [Tutor] Line Continuation Confusion
References: <00BBF6F79C12644E9F83EA55929390E1023BBCEE@mars.covenant.com>
Message-ID: <3F222186.1050204@aon.at>

Robertson, David S. schrieb:

>
> Greetings and thanks to all.  Although I have been programming for 
> many years, I am new to Python; this list has already been a great 
> help in climbing the learning curve!  Now my question:
>
> I have read several books about line continuation in Python, and I am 
> told consistently that "Python also joins adjacent physical lines into 
> one logical line if an open parenthesis ((), bracket ([), or brace ({) 
> has not yet been closed."  ("Python in a Nutshell", Alex Martelli, 
> O'Reilly) 
>
> But when I try to run the following code, I get complaints from Python 
> unless I use backslashes at the end of each line.  Why doesn't the 
> open parentheses after "execute" hold the statement open until the 
> closing parentheses?
>
> oCursor.execute("SELECT count(*)
>                 FROM SchoolPlans 
>                 WHERE SchoolsId = 1;")
>
I think this is because the argument of execute is a string, opened with "
Such strings have to be closed in the same line by another ".

Python understands multi-line-strings, which have to be delimited by """
like this:

print """a,
be,
bu"""
a,
be,
bu
 >>> len( """a,
be,
bu""" )
9
 >>>

I suppose , but I'm not sure, oCursor.execute will also
digest multiline-strings. If not, an error will occur, but no
Python-syntax-error. (I'm not that familiar with SQL)
Try it.

HTH, Gregor


> (BTW: I have, of course, tried making this statement all one line:  it 
> works great.  It just ain't very readable!)
>
> Many thanks in advance.
> _david
>
>
>
>
>
>






From alex@gabuzomeu.net  Sat Jul 26 06:06:01 2003
From: alex@gabuzomeu.net (Alexandre Ratti)
Date: Sat Jul 26 05:06:01 2003
Subject: [Tutor] Sorted dictionaries
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <3F22444F.3060004@gabuzomeu.net>

Hello,


Danny Yoo wrote:

>Python's Dictionary type is based on a classic data structure called a
>"hash table".  If you'd like, we can give a small introduction on hash
>tables to get a feel for how they work.  I think I wrote something about
>it a year or so ago on Python-Tutor, but I'm having a hard time finding
>  
>
Here are two introductions that I saved in my notewiki:

http://mail.python.org/pipermail/tutor/2002-January/011281.html
http://mail.python.org/pipermail/tutor/2002-March/013211.html


Cheers.

Alexandre





From alan.gauld@blueyonder.co.uk  Sat Jul 26 06:16:02 2003
From: alan.gauld@blueyonder.co.uk (Alan Gauld)
Date: Sat Jul 26 05:16:02 2003
Subject: [Tutor] a screed from a top down mind about a bottom up language
References:  <3F21E7C5.7040103@netzero.net>
Message-ID: <000301c35356$3be96430$6401a8c0@xp>

HI Kirk,

You are hitting on some very profound issues here. Ones that
have challenged the most brilliant minds in computing for years.

However, I do wonder about some of what you wrote. For example:

> I do not think bottom up, but top down. The language I use
> should allow me to write this way. it does not.

Most folks think top down. Thats why most software design books
teach top down design. So you start at the top, work your way
to the bottom and then sstart coding your way back up to where
you started. Thats the theory.

Now Python, being "executable pseudo code" allows you to follow
that process when *writing* the code but not when executing it.
ie you can only run it once you've reached the bottom level
- which is I think your point. But thats true of every computer
language because computers being stupid can only add 1+1 or 1+0
or 0+0 and move data from A to B. Anything else we need to tell
them - thats why programming is intrinsically hard.

> Proceeding from most general to most specific, I would define
> terms and functions, and layer by layer refine the definition,
> going into more detail, until finally defining the lower levels
> with existing python words methods,

That is a description of how I write most of my bigger programs,
whether in Python or any other language. (Actually its more correct
to say thats how I write programs using procedural programming, if
I use OOP then the technique changes because OOP doesn't work so
well top down)

> #####MAIN DO LOOP####
> DO:
> start
> crunch
> displayresults
> shutdown
> # FOLLOWING EXIT ONLY ENOUNTERED IF SOMETHING ABORTS DO TO ERROR!
> EXIT('FATALERROR IN MODULE'+$LASTFUNCTION)
> DONE;

def main():
   try:
      while True:
        start()
        crunch()
        displayResults()
        shutdown()
   except:
       print Error("Fatal error in Function")

> ######DEFINITIONS FOLLOW###########
> def start:
> readoptionsfile
> buildalistofallfiles
> readallfilesinlist
> clearscreen
> greetuser

def start():
   readoptionsfile()
   buildalistofallfiles()
   readallfilesinlist()
   clearscreen()
   greetuser()

etc/...

Looks like pretty standard Python so far. Its also exactly how
I write procedural code. What do you do different?

> And it would work. Because it's top down.

The two don't necessarily go together unfortunaely! :-)

> The computer has to traverse the thing many times, creating
> intermediate links,tables, temp files, and finally cooking
> it all down to a nice straightforward file of code which will run.

Thats a pretty good description of what the Python comiler does.

> This is either stored in the computer's mass data storage device,

As a .pyc file

> In time, every word would be defined in other words,

Which brings me back to the real challenge. You can't
run intermediate versions of your code until you define
stubs for the lowest level you have reached. Now in python
we can do that easily(with "pass") but it might be nice
for the computer to just define dummy stibs for us.
Unfortunately that has a big danger for producing reliabe
code...

> In fact, there seems to be some sort of twisted concept
> that this is actually VIRTUEOUS somehow, to be bottom up.

Nope, the top down approach is usually recommended as the
best way, but as I said at the statrt computers are so
stupid that until you define the bottom level they can't
do anything.

The compromise is to write ots of stubs at each level then
iteratively fill in the stubs until that level is complete

Your Policies are great BTW and what most good language designers
try to apply within the limits of current technology. In fact the 
Allan Kay paper I posted the other day explains exactly how he 
tried to meet those policies(including building his own hardware!)
when designing Smalltalk.


> Because it is interepeted, and executes things as it 
> encounters them, on the fly, It HAS to define things before 
> it can encounter a reference to them in another definition, 

Not totally true. Provided you keep things inside functions 
you can refer to things that haven't yet been defined, 
otherwise recursion wouldn't work!

So this works:

def foo()
   bar()    # refer to bar before its defined

def bar()
   print 'boo!'

So provided we put our top level code into a function 
- traditionally called main() and then call main as the 
last thing in our program - traditionally inside the 
if __name__ == "__main__":  mantra - then your style 
of top down programming works in Python pretty well 
as you requested...

> IMAGINE HOW MUCH MORE IT COULD DO IF IT WAS IN HARMONY 
> WITH NATURAL HUMAN CREATIVITY.

Thats where OOP comes in, it tries to go beyond the top-down
discipline and allow an even more creative approach that is 
still more closely aligned to the way the human brain works.
This is based on evolving patterns of ideas, with bits(objects) 
being added as you think of them. It also focuses on experimenting
with ideas as you go, trying things out even before the final 
solution works. Python is second only to Smalltalk in this 
regard IMHO.

Alan G.


From pythontutor@venix.com  Sat Jul 26 11:43:01 2003
From: pythontutor@venix.com (Lloyd Kvam)
Date: Sat Jul 26 10:43:01 2003
Subject: [Tutor] Line Continuation Confusion
In-Reply-To: <00BBF6F79C12644E9F83EA55929390E1023BBCEE@mars.covenant.com>
References: <00BBF6F79C12644E9F83EA55929390E1023BBCEE@mars.covenant.com>
Message-ID: <3F229337.6040003@venix.com>

(reply intermixed below)

Robertson, David S. wrote:
> ....
> I have read several books about line continuation in Python, and I am 
> told consistently that "Python also joins adjacent physical lines into 
> one logical line if an open parenthesis ((), bracket ([), or brace ({) 
> has not yet been closed."  ("Python in a Nutshell", Alex Martelli, 
> O'Reilly) 

BUT you must break at a "syntax whitespace" point in the line, typically after
a comma.  You can't simply break a string literal.  Gregor's suggestion
of using the triple quote for a multiline string WILL work.  However, if you
need to print the SQL command for debugging, it might be hard to read.

operator.add(123,456)
operator.add(123,
	456)
are OK

operator.add(1
	23,456)
is not OK.  Breaking your string literal is like breaking the numeric literal
123.

I usually use the backslash to tie my SQL lines together.

This works nicely because Python (like C) automatically concatenates
successive string literals.
"abcdefg" "hijklmn"  become "abcdefghijklmn".

"SELECT count(*) " \
         "FROM SchoolPlans " \
         "WHERE SchoolsId = 1;"
becomes
"SELECT count(*) FROM SchoolPlans WHERE SchoolsId = 1;"

 > ....
> Many thanks in advance.
> _david

-- 
Lloyd Kvam
Venix Corp.
1 Court Street, Suite 378
Lebanon, NH 03766-1358

voice:	603-443-6155
fax:	801-459-9582



From pythontutor@venix.com  Sat Jul 26 12:09:01 2003
From: pythontutor@venix.com (Lloyd Kvam)
Date: Sat Jul 26 11:09:01 2003
Subject: [Tutor] Proxy Clicker
In-Reply-To: <200307251325.13573.phate@rockriver.net>
References: <200307251325.13573.phate@rockriver.net>
Message-ID: <3F229938.10407@venix.com>

The program wget may do what you need.

If you do write your own python code, these modules
	urlparse
	urllib
	urllib2
should contain what you need.  In particular, urllib2 includes a class
proxyHandler.

Michie DeBerry wrote:

> Hello Gentleman,
> Sry to bother you guys again, and I appreciate all the help that you guys have 
> been offering me lately.
> I have been searching the documentation, and can't really find anything on 
> Proxy's and Sockets. I am in need of a program that will go to a URL through 
> one IP address, and search the html till it finds a specific string, this 
> being Click here to 
> continue. After the program finds the string (it changes every 30 
> seconds) it will then go to the url that it finds, once through every proxy. 
> Then it will search the second document (the http://www.outwar.com/...) 
> untill it finds how many thugs/feet/fans whoever is using the program has.
> It is a wonderful idea, and I have a list of proxies that will work, just need 
> the code for the program and I'm not really sure on what to do. Any help 
> would be helpful.
> Thx,
> Michie.
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Tutor maillist  -  Tutor@python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor
> 

-- 
Lloyd Kvam
Venix Corp.
1 Court Street, Suite 378
Lebanon, NH 03766-1358

voice:	603-443-6155
fax:	801-459-9582



From olof.krantz@telia.com  Sat Jul 26 13:44:12 2003
From: olof.krantz@telia.com (Olof Krantz)
Date: Sat Jul 26 12:44:12 2003
Subject: [Tutor] ui for Python
Message-ID: <1059237737.5587.4.camel@laptop.krantz.se>

Hi!

I've been using python for a while, and I've decided to start using guis
now. I've already tried wxPython, and I like it. Which ui is best?

And I have one more question. How do I add stuff to a wxGridSizer? I
haven't found any documentation about it, and no code samples either.

./oZt



From pythontutor@venix.com  Sat Jul 26 15:36:44 2003
From: pythontutor@venix.com (Lloyd Kvam)
Date: Sat Jul 26 14:36:44 2003
Subject: [Tutor] win32file module documentation
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <3F22C9E9.4010800@venix.com>

.pyd files are DLL's for Python and probably written in C.

On WinNT, I am using the ActiveState Python distribution.  The Help
(Help/Python Manuals/Contents/Python On Windows Extensions\
/PythonWin32Extensions Help/Modules/win32file)
showed this:

win32file.GetDiskFreeSpace
(int, int, int, int) = GetDiskFreeSpace(rootPathName)

Determines the free space on a device.


Parameters

rootPathName : PyUnicode

address of root path

Return Value
The result is a tuple of integers representing (sectors per cluster,
bytes per sector, number of free clusters, total number of clusters)


Michael Long wrote:

> I would like to use win32file.GetDiskFreeSpace() but do not seem to be
> able find any documention on this module. I do not have win32file.py
> installed on my machine only win32file.pyd. Is the source available or
> at least some documentation explaining input and return values?
> 
> Thanks,
> Mike
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Tutor maillist  -  Tutor@python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor
> 

-- 
Lloyd Kvam
Venix Corp.
1 Court Street, Suite 378
Lebanon, NH 03766-1358

voice:	603-443-6155
fax:	801-459-9582



From idiot1@netzero.net  Sat Jul 26 16:27:01 2003
From: idiot1@netzero.net (Kirk Bailey)
Date: Sat Jul 26 15:27:01 2003
Subject: [Tutor] oop tutorial
Message-ID: <3F22D5D1.1020106@netzero.net>

http://homepages.unl.ac.uk/~chalkp/proj/ootutor/

Looks good, working on inhaling it now.

-- 

end

Cheers!
         Kirk D Bailey

  +                              think                                +
   http://www.howlermonkey.net  +-----+        http://www.tinylist.org
   http://www.listville.net     | BOX |  http://www.sacredelectron.org
   Thou art free"-ERIS          +-----+     'Got a light?'-Promethieus
  +                              think                                +

Fnord.




From mlong@datalong.com  Sat Jul 26 16:59:01 2003
From: mlong@datalong.com (Michael Long)
Date: Sat Jul 26 15:59:01 2003
Subject: [Tutor] win32file module documentation
Message-ID: 

Thanks for the excellent explanation. This python thingy sure is making
my job much easier...

> .pyd files are DLL's for Python and probably written in C.
> 
> On WinNT, I am using the ActiveState Python distribution.  The Help
> (Help/Python Manuals/Contents/Python On Windows Extensions\
> /PythonWin32Extensions Help/Modules/win32file)
> showed this:






From alan.gauld@blueyonder.co.uk  Sat Jul 26 17:51:01 2003
From: alan.gauld@blueyonder.co.uk (Alan Gauld)
Date: Sat Jul 26 16:51:01 2003
Subject: [Tutor] Line Continuation Confusion
References: <00BBF6F79C12644E9F83EA55929390E1023BBCEE@mars.covenant.com>
Message-ID: <002001c353b7$5c6ec630$6401a8c0@xp>

> oCursor.execute("SELECT count(*) 
> FROM SchoolPlans  
> WHERE SchoolsId = 1;")

Single quoted strings have to be on one line, if you had used 
a triple quoted string it would be fine.

Some further examples:

def f(s): pass
def g(s,i): pass

f(""" SELECT FOO FROM BAR
      WHERE X = 42""")

g("SELECT COUNT FROM FOO", 42)

g( "SELECT COUNT FROM FOO",
   42)

f("SELECT FOO FROM BAZ \
   WHERE X=42")   # can use  the explicit separator '\' too

HTH,

Alan G
Author of the Learn to Program web tutor
http://www.freenetpages.co.uk/hp/alan.gauld




From pauljhickey@eircom.net  Sat Jul 26 18:26:01 2003
From: pauljhickey@eircom.net (Paul Hickey)
Date: Sat Jul 26 17:26:01 2003
Subject: [Tutor] Help with Python on Red Hat 8
Message-ID: <007b01c353bc$374aec80$fdc4fea9@pjhickey>

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

------=_NextPart_000_0078_01C353C4.98E202F0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi , I've been using Python on windows for a short time.
I Just loaded RH8 on to a laptop and went to use Python, its not listed =
anywhere in the GUI, I found it by opening the Terminal.
In terminal I typed Python, and now Python is running.
However its at the >>>_ prompt, so my question is how do I open a file =
to write a program, and save it as I did in Windows.
Its a newbie question for sure! But I do want to get back to my =
tutorial's and would prefer to stay on RH, rather than  using another =
box with windows.
Thanks for your time.
Paul.
------=_NextPart_000_0078_01C353C4.98E202F0
Content-Type: text/html;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable









Hi , I've been using Python on windows =
for a short=20
time.


I Just loaded RH8 on to a laptop and =
went to use=20
Python, its not listed anywhere in the GUI, I found it by opening the=20
Terminal.


In terminal I typed Python, and now =
Python is=20
running.


However its at the >>>_ =
prompt, so my=20
question is how do I open a file to write a program, and save it as I =
did in=20
Windows.


Its a newbie question for sure! But I =
do want to=20
get back to my tutorial's and would prefer to stay on RH, rather than=20
 using another box with windows.


Thanks for your time.


Paul.


------=_NextPart_000_0078_01C353C4.98E202F0--




From tbstep@tampabay.rr.com  Sat Jul 26 18:34:01 2003
From: tbstep@tampabay.rr.com (Todd Stephens)
Date: Sat Jul 26 17:34:01 2003
Subject: [Tutor] Help with Python on Red Hat 8
In-Reply-To: <007b01c353bc$374aec80$fdc4fea9@pjhickey>
References: <007b01c353bc$374aec80$fdc4fea9@pjhickey>
Message-ID: <200307261731.24010@toddloki>

On Saturday 26 July 2003 05:23 pm, Paul Hickey wrote:

> Hi , I've been using Python on windows for a short time.
> I Just loaded RH8 on to a laptop and went to use Python, its not listed
> anywhere in the GUI, I found it by opening the Terminal. In terminal I
> typed Python, and now Python is running.
> However its at the >>>_ prompt, so my question is how do I open a file to
> write a program, and save it as I did in Windows. Its a newbie question for
> sure! But I do want to get back to my tutorial's and would prefer to stay
> on RH, rather than  using another box with windows. Thanks for your time.
> Paul.

That is your interactive prompt.  If you want to write an actual program 
you'll need to just code it in a text editor and save it with a .py extension 
(not really necessary, but helps you in keeping track of what kind of file it 
is).  When you want to run it, type 'python .py' at your command 
prompt.

You can use the interactive prompt to run some tutorials, but not to write any 
lengthy program and save it.

-- 
Todd Stephens



From tutor@python.org  Sat Jul 26 19:11:01 2003
From: tutor@python.org (Rob McGee)
Date: Sat Jul 26 18:11:01 2003
Subject: [Tutor] Help with Python on Red Hat 8
In-Reply-To: <007b01c353bc$374aec80$fdc4fea9@pjhickey>
References: <007b01c353bc$374aec80$fdc4fea9@pjhickey>
Message-ID: <20030726221035.GC1963@obrien.1984.lan>

On Sat, Jul 26, 2003 at 10:23:54PM +0100, Paul Hickey wrote:
> I Just loaded RH8 on to a laptop and went to use Python, its not
> listed anywhere in the GUI, I found it by opening the Terminal.

python itself is not a GUI program; it is a character-based interpreter.

> In terminal I typed Python, and now Python is running.

That's "python", BTW: Unix-like OS's are case-sensitive.

> However its at the >>>_ prompt, so my question is how do I open a file
> to write a program, and save it as I did in Windows.

This can be done in any editor. Many of them do syntax highlighting and
colour for python and other languages. Put this:
    #!/usr/bin/env python
as the first line of yourScript.py (the ".py" is optional), and make it
executable:
    chmod +x yourScript.py
You can then run that script from the command line by name (but you'll
need a path, either relative or absolute, if it's not in your shell's
search path -- $PATH in bash.)

KDE can set up command shortcuts similar to what Windows does. You can
also use KDE's interface to make a file executable. KDE can hide many
details from the user, just as Windows does ... which can be either /
both good and bad (depending on the user and his/her needs.)

You might want an IDE. You probably have IDLE installed. You can do
"locate idle.py" (after the locate database has been created, which is
probably done automatically at night) to find it. It may be set up as an
icon in your GUI -- I don't know. (Note that KDE, the most common GUI
choice these days, is by no means the only one. There is far more choice
and variation among X11 window managers and desktop environments than
there is in Windows, and most of them are completely customisable.

KDevelop also supports python. You say you have Red Hat 8.0, but the
GUI's of the free software world move very quickly, so that's behind the
times already. Perhaps you'll want to consider more recent releases. The
older ones work just fine, of course, but the thing is, a few years ago
most of these GUI projects were considerably behind Windows in terms of
functionality and ease of use. I'm not sure that's still the case.[1]

Welcome to GNU/Linux, HTH.

    Rob - /dev/rob0


[1] I never intend to find out, either. :) Having already made the
    switch long ago, there's no need to go back. KDE 3.1.2 beats any
    Windows I ever used (3.1, 95, NT4). Much of what I do is command-
    line work anyway, so I'm not interested in a sales pitch for XP. :)


From R. Alan Monroe" 
References: <007b01c353bc$374aec80$fdc4fea9@pjhickey>
 <20030726221035.GC1963@obrien.1984.lan>
Message-ID: <37919408509.20030726221418@columbus.rr.com>

From: Sebastian Hans 

Subject: Re: Which language will use? 
From: grante@visi.com (Grant Edwards)
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.development.apps

In article , Tom Felker wrote:
> On Thu, 24 Jul 2003 19:42:51 +0800, Eric Chan wrote:
> 
>> Dear ALL,
>> 
>> I am a new baby of using Linux. I want to ask which programming language 
>> should use for writing Linux application.
>> 
>> Thanks a lot.
> 
> Well, what will your app do?

Dude, you've got your priorities all wrong.  Here's the proper
order for things:

 1) Pick development platform: Linux
 2) Pick language: Python
 3) Pick GUI library: GTK or wxWindows
 4) Write program
 5) Figure out what program does

-- 
Moderators accept or reject articles based solely on the criteria posted
in the Frequently Asked Questions. Article content is the responsibility
of the submitter. Submit articles to ahbou-sub@duke.edu. To write to the
moderators, send mail to ahbou-mod@duke.edu. 



From qsc@icon.co.za  Sun Jul 27 04:33:02 2003
From: qsc@icon.co.za (Quentin)
Date: Sun Jul 27 03:33:02 2003
Subject: [Tutor] ui for Python
In-Reply-To: <1059237737.5587.4.camel@laptop.krantz.se>
References: <1059237737.5587.4.camel@laptop.krantz.se>
Message-ID: <3F237FFB.6040705@icon.co.za>

Have a look at Boa Constructor:
http://sourceforge.net/projects/boa-constructor/
It will help you with both your questions. (And help you build and 
understand GUI's.)
Also, spend some time with the Demo that came with wxPython.

Quentin



From jaredw1234567@hotmail.com  Sun Jul 27 04:53:02 2003
From: jaredw1234567@hotmail.com (Jared W)
Date: Sun Jul 27 03:53:02 2003
Subject: [Tutor] Re:Help on Tutor
Message-ID: 

Hello Nitin,
    The part I had trouble on was getting the last two digits from the time. 
  Your program is exactly what I'm looking for, but could you explain how 
you did that?  It works and it's right, but I don't understand how you did 
what you did.  Thanks to everyone who helped.

Jared


>From: "Nitin  Gangahar" 
>Reply-To: "Nitin  Gangahar" 
>To: jaredw1234567@hotmail.com
>CC: tutor@python.org
>Subject: Re:Help on Tutor
>Date: 26 Jul 2003 06:21:47 -0000
>
>Hello!
>       I think Alan's absolutely right.I've got the code here it is:
>import time
>mytime=time.localtime( )
>number=mytime[4]
>guess=-1
>
>while guess != number:
>     guess = input("Guess a number: ")
>
>     if guess > number :
>         print "Too high"
>
>     elif guess < number :
>             print "Too low"
>
>print "Just right"
>
>
>
>
>
>
>>"""
>>Rewrite the high_low.py program from section 5.2 to use the last two
>>digits of time at that moment to be the 'random' number.
>>"""
>>"""
>>Rewrite the high_low.py program from section 5.2:
>>
>>     1.  To use the last two digits of time at that moment.
>>
>>     2.  To be the 'random' number.
>>"""
>>
>>Can anyone confirm that this is what Josh meant?
>
>>I think its simpler than that. Josh is simply saying use the
>>time() function to get a number. Take the last two digits
>>and use them instead of 78 as the target. As Isaac said,
>>the trick is to 'think strings'
>>
>>Alan G.
>___________________________________________________
>Download the hottest & happening ringtones here!
>OR SMS: Top tone to 7333
>Click here now: http://sms.rediff.com/cgi-bin/ringtone/ringhome.pl
>
>

_________________________________________________________________
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From missive@hotmail.com  Sun Jul 27 11:59:01 2003
From: missive@hotmail.com (Lee Harr)
Date: Sun Jul 27 10:59:01 2003
Subject: [Tutor] Re:Help on Tutor
Message-ID: 

>  Your program is exactly what I'm looking for, but could you explain how
>you did that?

>>import time
>>mytime=time.localtime( )
>>number=mytime[4]
>>guess=-1
>>
>>while guess != number:
>>     guess = input("Guess a number: ")
>>
>>     if guess > number :
>>         print "Too high"
>>
>>     elif guess < number :
>>             print "Too low"
>>
>>print "Just right"
>>


One of the great things about python is that if you don't see what is
happening by just reading the code, you can play with the code in the
interactive interpreter:


>>>import time
>>>mytime = time.localtime()
>>>mytime
(2003, 7, 27, 10, 54, 38, 6, 208, 1)
>>>help(time.localtime)
Help on built-in function localtime:

localtime(...)
    localtime([seconds]) -> 
(tm_year,tm_mon,tm_day,tm_hour,tm_min,tm_sec,tm_wday,tm_yday,tm_isdst)

    Convert seconds since the Epoch to a time tuple expressing local time.
    When 'seconds' is not passed in, convert the current time instead.

>>>number = mytime[4]
>>>number
54


Plus, the online documentation is some of the best around:
http://python.org/doc/current/lib/module-time.html

_________________________________________________________________
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From pauljhickey@eircom.net  Sun Jul 27 13:09:02 2003
From: pauljhickey@eircom.net (Paul Hickey)
Date: Sun Jul 27 12:09:02 2003
Subject: [Tutor] Not to bad,not to good!how to tell apart!!
Message-ID: <000a01c35459$4e6cedd0$fdc4fea9@pjhickey>

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

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	charset="iso-8859-1"
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newbie help needed!!

This is what i've got i could do with some help, thanks!

s =3D raw_input ("How are you?")
if s.find('fine')>=3D0:
    print "Im glad that your good!'
elif s.find('OK')>=3D0:
    print "Happy to hear your OK!"
elif s.find('bad')>=3D0:
    print "Hey look on the bright side, coud be worse!'
elif s.find('not too bad')>=3D0:
    print " im glad to hear your good!"

The last line don't work!!! Help.

Also can i 'bunch' several words  together like,

elif s.find('fine' or 'good' or 'OK' )>=3D0:
    print "Glad that thinigs are going well!"

This line dont work either!!!
I've tried to play with this but ot no avail

There's also the thing about upper and lower case is that a major thing =
or will i forget about that for the time being.

Or ?? Am i going about this the right way, if i can 'bunch' several key =
words in the same statement the i could save a lot of typing, however is =
there a better method that a newbie might have a hope of understanding.
Help with ANY part of this would be great.
Thanks for your time, hope im not asking for too much!
Paul
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newbie help needed!!


 


This is what i've got i could do with =
some help,=20
thanks!


 


s =3D raw_input ("How are =
you?")


if s.find('fine')>=3D0:


    print "Im glad that =
your=20
good!'


elif s.find('OK')>=3D0:


    print "Happy to hear =
your=20
OK!"


elif =
s.find('bad')>=3D0:


    print "Hey look on =
the bright=20
side, coud be worse!'


elif s.find('not too =
bad')>=3D0:


    print " im glad to =
hear your=20
good!"


 


The last line don't work!!! =
Help.


 


Also can i 'bunch' several words  =
together=20
like,


 


elif s.find('fine' or 'good' or 'OK'=20
)>=3D0:


    print "Glad that =
thinigs are=20
going well!"


 


This line dont work =
either!!!


I've tried to play with this but ot no=20
avail


 


There's also the thing about upper and =
lower case=20
is that a major thing or will i forget about that for the time=20
being.


 


Or ?? Am i going about this the right =
way, if i can=20
'bunch' several key words in the same statement the i could save a lot =
of=20
typing, however is there a better method that a newbie might have a hope =
of=20
understanding.


Help with ANY part of this would =
be=20
great.


Thanks for your time, hope im not =
asking for too=20
much!


Paul


------=_NextPart_000_0007_01C35461.B0198810--




From RASTM2@aol.com  Sun Jul 27 14:01:08 2003
From: RASTM2@aol.com (RASTM2@aol.com)
Date: Sun Jul 27 13:01:08 2003
Subject: [Tutor] Boa ? Bugs Oh Acetominiphin ? Sorry I know it's great BUT>>>>>
Message-ID: <1dc.ea83a9d.2c555f0f@aol.com>

In a message dated 7/27/03 11:01:37 AM Central Daylight Time, 
tutor-request@python.org writes:

> Have a look at Boa Constructor:
>  http://sourceforge.net/projects/boa-constructor/
>  It will help you with both your questions. (And help you build and 
>  understand GUI's.)
>  Also, spend some time with the Demo that came with wxPython.
>  


I'm having trouble with a documented bug in the Boa readme file.

--------8<---------
 
Sometimes (but rarely)
[(I only wish it was rarely)ed.] 

Boa crashes at startup while opening files in the Editor. 
[ No. It crashes every time I load it. ]

To get around it you may start Boa with the command-line switch -E which will 
start with an empty Editor. I don't think it's a Boa bug.



Seams the Boa team does't know quite what is wrong.
They recommend ensuring that the wxPython file version is compatable
with the current Python installation. 

Really, I've been to the Doc's on this one and have found nothing 
else I can do. WHAAAAA

I'm running wxPython ver(2.4.1.2u) -- Python 2.2.3c1 and also MarkH.'s 
Pythonwin32 extensions. And some time ago I fed a unicode patch to
this WinBox  from MS Upgradesite -- I wonder......

I've played around with anygui and Tcl\Tk and wxPython and Visual Python but 
I was really looking forward to trying Boa.  

If you know of someone that has struggled with this, and suceeded
can ya point s/he my way? 

In the mean time I'll be searching the old Google file.

Thanks, 
Ya'll do a real nice service for us, and I appreciate ya lettin me vent. 

Ray 
Rastm2@
(Ja)ol.comeandgetthespaminator <-- disassemble # 5


From glingl@aon.at  Sun Jul 27 14:05:03 2003
From: glingl@aon.at (Gregor Lingl)
Date: Sun Jul 27 13:05:03 2003
Subject: [Tutor] Not to bad,not to good!how to tell apart!!
References: <000a01c35459$4e6cedd0$fdc4fea9@pjhickey>
Message-ID: <3F24069C.2010703@aon.at>

Paul Hickey schrieb:

> newbie help needed!!
>  
> This is what i've got i could do with some help, thanks!
>  
> s = raw_input ("How are you?")
> if s.find('fine')>=0:
>     print "Im glad that your good!'
> elif s.find('OK')>=0:
>     print "Happy to hear your OK!"
> elif s.find('bad')>=0:
>     print "Hey look on the bright side, coud be worse!'
> elif s.find('not too bad')>=0:
>     print " im glad to hear your good!"
>  
> The last line don't work!!! Help.
>  

Hi, Paul,

in any if-elif-elif-... statement  exactly one branch will be
executed. In your case if s.find('not too bad')>=0 is True, then also
s.find('bad')>=0 is true, so the corresponding branch will be
executed and "Hey, look at ..." will be printed.

If you exchanged this last two branches, the statement will
work as desired.

> Also can i 'bunch' several words  together like, 
> elif s.find('fine' or 'good' or 'OK' )>=0:
>     print "Glad that thinigs are going well!"
>  

This is possible, but for the Python  interpreter:

 >>> 'fine' or 'good' or 'OK'
'fine'

The reason for this is a bit sophisticated, but for now you should
keep in mind that or-ing (and  and-ing) expressions may have surprising 
results
for you. (If you like to read about this, look at
http://www.python.org/doc/current/lib/truth.html    and
http://www.python.org/doc/current/lib/boolean.html   )

However this is not the case if the expressions are themselves boolen ones.
So the following will work:

elif s.find('fine'')>=0 or s.find('good')>=0 or s.find('OK')>=0:
    print "etc ...."

> This line dont work either!!!
> I've tried to play with this but ot no avail
>  
> There's also the thing about upper and lower case is that a major 
> thing or will i forget about that for the time being.
>  

To manage this you have to use the string-methods lower() and
upper():

 >>> s = "I'm ok"
 >>> s.find('OK')
-1
 >>> s.upper().find('OK')
4
 >>> s.find('ok')
4
 >>> t = "I'm OK"
 >>> t.find("ok")
-1
 >>> t.lower().find("ok")
4
 >>>

> Or ?? Am i going about this the right way, if i can 'bunch' several 
> key words in the same statement the i could save a lot of typing, 
> however is there a better method that a newbie might have a hope of 
> understanding.
> Help with ANY part of this would be great.
> Thanks for your time, hope im not asking for too much!

Certainly not. Look on the bright side and feel free to ask more ...

Gregor

> Paul





From RASTM2@aol.com  Sun Jul 27 14:12:02 2003
From: RASTM2@aol.com (RASTM2@aol.com)
Date: Sun Jul 27 13:12:02 2003
Subject: [Tutor] Re: My earlier rant on Bugs on Acetominiphin
Message-ID: <17.3be71a96.2c5561a9@aol.com>

I took another look at the output of the MSDos command line and ....

[...]
importing Explorers.DAVExplorer
importing Explorers.SSHExplorer
attaching wxPython doc strings
showing main frames

then the gui loads then the core dumps then the email gets sent then the 
answer comes...
Please, let the answer come.

again Ray rastm2@@OL>COM


From wheelcrdan@hotmail.com  Sun Jul 27 14:45:03 2003
From: wheelcrdan@hotmail.com (Dan Dud)
Date: Sun Jul 27 13:45:03 2003
Subject: [Tutor] Re:Help on Tutor
Message-ID: 

Hello and good mornig

I was just curious why you imported "time" for this program and not somthing 
like "random".  Just curious??????????

Have a good one

Danny D

>From: "Lee Harr" 
>To: tutor@python.org
>Subject: [Tutor] Re:Help on Tutor
>Date: Sun, 27 Jul 2003 14:57:47 +0000
>
>>  Your program is exactly what I'm looking for, but could you explain how
>>you did that?
>
>>>import time
>>>mytime=time.localtime( )
>>>number=mytime[4]
>>>guess=-1
>>>
>>>while guess != number:
>>>     guess = input("Guess a number: ")
>>>
>>>     if guess > number :
>>>         print "Too high"
>>>
>>>     elif guess < number :
>>>             print "Too low"
>>>
>>>print "Just right"
>>>
>
>
>One of the great things about python is that if you don't see what is
>happening by just reading the code, you can play with the code in the
>interactive interpreter:
>
>
>>>>import time
>>>>mytime = time.localtime()
>>>>mytime
>(2003, 7, 27, 10, 54, 38, 6, 208, 1)
>>>>help(time.localtime)
>Help on built-in function localtime:
>
>localtime(...)
>    localtime([seconds]) -> 
>(tm_year,tm_mon,tm_day,tm_hour,tm_min,tm_sec,tm_wday,tm_yday,tm_isdst)
>
>    Convert seconds since the Epoch to a time tuple expressing local time.
>    When 'seconds' is not passed in, convert the current time instead.
>
>>>>number = mytime[4]
>>>>number
>54
>
>
>Plus, the online documentation is some of the best around:
>http://python.org/doc/current/lib/module-time.html
>
>_________________________________________________________________
>The new MSN 8: advanced junk mail protection and 2 months FREE* 
>http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail
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From sigurd@12move.de  Sun Jul 27 15:42:01 2003
From: sigurd@12move.de (Karl =?iso-8859-1?q?Pfl=E4sterer?=)
Date: Sun Jul 27 14:42:01 2003
Subject: [Tutor] Not to bad,not to good!how to tell apart!!
In-Reply-To: <000a01c35459$4e6cedd0$fdc4fea9@pjhickey> (Paul Hickey's
 message of "Sun, 27 Jul 2003 17:08:23 +0100")
References: <000a01c35459$4e6cedd0$fdc4fea9@pjhickey>
Message-ID: 

On 27 Jul 2003, Paul Hickey <- pauljhickey@eircom.net wrote:

> This is what i've got i could do with some help, thanks!

> s = raw_input ("How are you?")
> if s.find('fine')>=0:
>     print "Im glad that your good!'
                                    ^
> elif s.find('OK')>=0:
>     print "Happy to hear your OK!"
> elif s.find('bad')>=0:
>     print "Hey look on the bright side, coud be worse!'
                                                        ^
> elif s.find('not too bad')>=0:
>     print " im glad to hear your good!"

> The last line don't work!!! Help.

First to that line: 
(a) I marked the two lines where you used the wrong
    quotes.  You started with `"' but ended with `''.  That won't work.
(b) The second elif is true if the word `bad' could be found;  so the
    last elif will never be executed.  To correct this you would have to
    change sequence of the `elif's (change three and two).

> Also can i 'bunch' several words  together like,

> elif s.find('fine' or 'good' or 'OK' )>=0:
>     print "Glad that thinigs are going well!"

Yes but the syntax is different.  You have to write:
    elif s.find('fine') or s.find('good')

> There's also the thing about upper and lower case is that a major thing or
> will i forget about that for the time being.

That's simple solved. Just convert s before comparision to lowercase or
uppercase.  Eg:
           s = s.lower()

> Or ?? Am i going about this the right way, if i can 'bunch' several key words
> in the same statement the i could save a lot of typing, however is there a
> better method that a newbie might have a hope of understanding. Help with ANY

You could solve it in another way without a lot elif clauses.  You can't
use a dictionary here because order matters.

# First create a mapping of answers to phrases you would like to see as
# answers.

ans = ["Im glad that your good!",
       "Happy to hear your OK!",
       " im glad to hear your good!",
       "Hey look on the bright side, coud be worse!"]

answer = [('fine', 	ans[0]),
          ('good', 	ans[0]),
          ('ok',   	ans[1]),
          ('not too bad',ans[2]),
          ('bad',  	ans[3])]

# Now it is easy to add new keywords which should give the same answer.

# Now the raw input (we lowercase it immediately)

s = raw_input ("How are you?").lower()

# And now the answer

for (k, v) in answer:
    if s.find(k) != -1:
        print v
        break


 Karl
-- 
Please do *not* send copies of replies to me.
I read the list



From alan.gauld@blueyonder.co.uk  Sun Jul 27 16:44:01 2003
From: alan.gauld@blueyonder.co.uk (Alan Gauld)
Date: Sun Jul 27 15:44:01 2003
Subject: [Tutor] Update to my tutorial
Message-ID: <003a01c35477$3e7d3420$6401a8c0@xp>

I just spent some time updating my Python tutorial This is not
the big upgrade I discussed a while back, to cater for v2, but
is preparatory to that. It does include:

-  a tweak to the style sheets to help complaints about
   difficulty reading the red code against the blue background.
- many many typos etc fixed thanks to Petr Prikryl one of the
   Czech translators. Hopefully next week I'll get Petr's new
   improved Czech version up too.
- Some code improvements and clarifications requested by other
readers.

In short if you have pointed out an error in the pasy 6 months
it should now be fixed! Any new ones shouldbe notified to me
directly please!

Enjoy,

Alan G
Author of the Learn to Program web tutor
http://www.freenetpages.co.uk/hp/alan.gauld



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From alan.gauld@blueyonder.co.uk  Sun Jul 27 18:04:02 2003
From: alan.gauld@blueyonder.co.uk (Alan Gauld)
Date: Sun Jul 27 17:04:02 2003
Subject: [Tutor] Re:Help on Tutor
References: 
Message-ID: <005701c35482$3d46aef0$6401a8c0@xp>

> I was just curious why you imported "time" for this program and not
somthing
> like "random".  Just curious??????????

Coz the original question came from someone doing a tutorial
which posed as an exercise how to use time as a way to get a
pseudo random number. I agree the random module would seem a
better long term solution.

Alan G.



From nyberg.kent@spray.se  Sun Jul 27 19:02:05 2003
From: nyberg.kent@spray.se (Kent Nyberg)
Date: Sun Jul 27 18:02:05 2003
Subject: [Tutor] Howto use gnome-projects written in glade with python?
Message-ID: <1059343269.2231.56.camel@Snutten>

Hello dear friends!
I am playing around with python and ran into a little problem.
I have made this gnome2 interface in Glade that i want to show with
python.
All the examples i have on my computer uses "import gtk.glade" to 
show glade-projects.
As far as i know all those projects are gtk+ projects, so to import
gtk.glade seems ok. What to do for gnome-projects? Import gnome.glade?
Nope, there is no such module.
If i load the gnome2 interface with gtk.glade then the program
segfaults.

The code works well with gtk+ glade-projects, so it cant be big errors
in the code. I hope i just missed something to import.

Sorry if im not that good on explaining the problem, i am pretty new to
python.



From RASTM2@aol.com  Mon Jul 28 04:27:01 2003
From: RASTM2@aol.com (RASTM2@aol.com)
Date: Mon Jul 28 03:27:01 2003
Subject: [Tutor] Boa Better Os Alert!
Message-ID: <18.3352018c.2c5629fc@aol.com>

Ray --In a message dated 7/27/03 3:55:38 PM Central Daylight Time, 
tutor-request@python.org writes:

> I'm having trouble with a documented bug in the Boa readme file.

This line is incorrect. The problem is the OS.
As it turns out, JanC on the comp.lang.python said that my
Win98 installation would not work the Boa if I used the Unicode
version of wxPython. 
I swapped the installation over to the ASCII version of wxPython and BAM, 
I gotta Boa!.
Couldn't be happier...  
 
Ray 
Rastm2@
(Ja)ol.comeandgetthespaminator <-- disassemble # 5


From justin@unixremedies.com  Mon Jul 28 11:48:15 2003
From: justin@unixremedies.com (Justin Heath)
Date: Mon Jul 28 10:48:15 2003
Subject: [Tutor] [OT] MySQLdb on Redhat 9
In-Reply-To: <20030725134113.V20475-100000@localhost.name>
References: <20030725134113.V20475-100000@localhost.name>
Message-ID: <3F253513.5010500@unixremedies.com>

tpc@csua.berkeley.edu wrote:

>hello, I was wondering if anyone has tried to install MySQLdb on Redhat
>Linux 9.  I just installed the module and it was fine:
>
>[root@nike download]# rpm -ivh MySQL-python-0.9.2-1.i386.rpm
>warning: MySQL-python-0.9.2-1.i386.rpm: V3 DSA signature: NOKEY, key ID
>930b8ab6
>Preparing...                ###########################################
>[100%]
>   1:MySQL-python           ###########################################
>[100%]
>
>though now when I try to run a python script that imports MySQLdb it says
>"ImportError: No module named MySQLdb".
>
>It is strange because rpm -qa | grep MySQL shows:
>
>[root@nike local]# rpm -qa | grep MySQL
>perl-DBD-MySQL-2.1021-3
>MySQL-python-0.9.2-1
>MySQL-shared-3.23.56-1.0.23
>MySQL-client-4.0.14-0
>MySQL-server-4.0.14-0
>
>although when I try to find MySQLdb.py I cannot.
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>Tutor maillist  -  Tutor@python.org
>http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor
>  
>
I am using RedHat 9 and installed this module and it works fine. I did 
have an error because my case did not match the module name (oops). 
Running the following worked for me:

 > up2date MySQL-python
 > python
 >>> import MySQLdb

Also, just FYI the README and FAQ files are located in 
/usr/share/doc/MySQL-python-0.9.1.

Hope that helps,
Justin




From vicki@thepenguin.org  Mon Jul 28 12:05:02 2003
From: vicki@thepenguin.org (Vicki Stanfield)
Date: Mon Jul 28 11:05:02 2003
Subject: [Tutor] [OT] MySQLdb on Redhat 9
Message-ID: <31763.206.53.226.4.1059404696.squirrel@www.thepenguin.org>

> Also, just FYI the README and FAQ files are located in
> /usr/share/doc/MySQL-python-0.9.1.
>
> Hope that helps,
> Justin

Probably in /usr/share/doc/MySQL-python-0.9.2/ for him since he is using
version MySQL-python-9.2.1.

--vicki






From goki75@vsnl.net  Mon Jul 28 12:09:01 2003
From: goki75@vsnl.net (G Kiran)
Date: Mon Jul 28 11:09:01 2003
Subject: [Tutor] hanging cgi
Message-ID: <002601c35519$2c1b5d00$b84c41db@VULCAN>

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I was writing an  multi-threaded cgi script for scanning ports of my =
servers to check status of the services.

the program runs fine on xitami on win xp and as standalone program

but on win 2000 with IIS returns CGI error when run on iis after =
executing half way
saying it returns some incomplete headers

------=_NextPart_001_0021_01C35547.439B0E20
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	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable











I was writing an  =
multi-threaded cgi=20
script for scanning ports of my servers to check status of the=20
services.


 


the program runs fine on xitami on win =
xp and as=20
standalone program


 


but on win 2000 with =
IIS returns CGI error when run on iis after =
executing half=20
way


saying it returns some incomplete=20
headers


 


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From SWidney@ci.las-vegas.nv.us  Mon Jul 28 12:31:01 2003
From: SWidney@ci.las-vegas.nv.us (Scott Widney)
Date: Mon Jul 28 11:31:01 2003
Subject: [Tutor] Re:Help on Tutor
Message-ID: <0E5508EBA1620743B409A2B8365DE16FDC86E5@sovereign.ci.las-vegas.nv.us>

> >>>import time
> >>>mytime = time.localtime()
> >>>mytime
> (2003, 7, 27, 10, 54, 38, 6, 208, 1)
> >>>help(time.localtime)
> Help on built-in function localtime:
> 
> localtime(...)
>     localtime([seconds]) -> 
> (tm_year,tm_mon,tm_day,tm_hour,tm_min,tm_sec,tm_wday,tm_yday,tm_isdst)
> 
>     Convert seconds since the Epoch to a time tuple 
> expressing local time.
>     When 'seconds' is not passed in, convert the current time instead.
> 
> >>>number = mytime[4]
> >>>number
> 54

Two things: first, the fifth element in the list is the current minute, not
the second! You'll approach "randomness" more closely if you use the current
second. So if you're going to use time.localtime(), use index [5].

Second, other's here have pointed out that you'll only get integers in the
range 0-59. Kinda cuts down on the usefulness of using seconds. However,
using time.time() will give you better results and it's where I think the
exercise was heading. Take a look:


>>> import time
>>> help(time.time)
Help on built-in function time:

time(...)
    time() -> floating point number

    Return the current time in seconds since the Epoch.
    Fractions of a second may be present if the system clock provides them.

## This looks promising. Does my clock provide fractions?
>>> help(time.time())
Help on float:

1059404203.9859999

## Yep. So I'll have to deal with that.
## The easiest way would be to just get rid of the fractional part
>>> int(time.time())
1059404248
## And it would be much easier to get the last two digits
##  if I was dealing with a string.
>>> str(int(time.time()))
'1059404275'
## Great! Now I just need the last two characters.
>>> str(int(time.time()))[-2:]
'89'
## There. Now I can compare that to the string that the user enters.
## Oh, and if I need that to be a number again...
>>> int(str(int(time.time()))[-2:])
39
## I'll run it a few more times to be sure it works.
>>> int(str(int(time.time()))[-2:])
42
>>> int(str(int(time.time()))[-2:])
46
>>> int(str(int(time.time()))[-2:])
94
>>> int(str(int(time.time()))[-2:])
1
>>>
## Yep. We get a number in the range 0-99. Much better fit for the exercise


From goki75@vsnl.net  Mon Jul 28 12:52:01 2003
From: goki75@vsnl.net (G Kiran)
Date: Mon Jul 28 11:52:01 2003
Subject: [Tutor] Time out socket wait
Message-ID: <004901c3551f$9621cad0$b84c41db@VULCAN>

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

--Boundary_(ID_05zI1SMAebNqUYV+c8YDew)
Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT

how do i timeout if its taking too long for a socket.connect to establish a connect?

]
thankx in advance

-gk

--Boundary_(ID_05zI1SMAebNqUYV+c8YDew)
Content-type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT









how do i timeout if its taking too long for a 
socket.connect to establish a connect?


 


]


thankx in advance


 


-gk


--Boundary_(ID_05zI1SMAebNqUYV+c8YDew)--


From dyoo@hkn.eecs.berkeley.edu  Mon Jul 28 14:16:02 2003
From: dyoo@hkn.eecs.berkeley.edu (Danny Yoo)
Date: Mon Jul 28 13:16:02 2003
Subject: [Tutor] Time out socket wait
In-Reply-To: <004901c3551f$9621cad0$b84c41db@VULCAN>
Message-ID: 


> how do i timeout if its taking too long for a socket.connect to
> establish a connect?

Hi gk,


You may need to use a third-party module called 'timeoutsocket'

    http://www.timo-tasi.org/python/timeoutsocket.py



[Side note: In the upcoming version of Python (Python 2.3), sockets will
have a 'settimeout()' method:

    http://python.org/dev/doc/devel/lib/socket-objects.html
]


Good luck to you!



From dyoo@hkn.eecs.berkeley.edu  Mon Jul 28 14:22:01 2003
From: dyoo@hkn.eecs.berkeley.edu (Danny Yoo)
Date: Mon Jul 28 13:22:01 2003
Subject: [Tutor] Re:Help on Tutor
In-Reply-To: <0E5508EBA1620743B409A2B8365DE16FDC86E5@sovereign.ci.las-vegas.nv.us>
Message-ID: 


On Mon, 28 Jul 2003, Scott Widney wrote:

> ## Yep. So I'll have to deal with that.
> ## The easiest way would be to just get rid of the fractional part
> >>> int(time.time())
> 1059404248
> ## And it would be much easier to get the last two digits
> ##  if I was dealing with a string.
> >>> str(int(time.time()))
> '1059404275'
> ## Great! Now I just need the last two characters.
> >>> str(int(time.time()))[-2:]
> '89'


Hi Scott,


An alternative way of doing this, without as much string manipulation, can
be to use the "modulo" (remainder) operator.  Anything divided by 100 will
leave a remainder between 0 and 99.

###
>>> int(time.time()) % 100
16
###


Hope this helps!




From jpollack@socrates.Berkeley.EDU  Mon Jul 28 14:32:25 2003
From: jpollack@socrates.Berkeley.EDU (jpollack@socrates.Berkeley.EDU)
Date: Mon Jul 28 13:32:25 2003
Subject: [Tutor] database question
Message-ID: 

Hi,

For all of you pythonistas that use the language to handle large amounts
of data, especially in a bioinformatic context:

I'm pretty new to the language and up to this point, I've been able to
make do with storing data in a text file.  However, I'm building a tool
that digs out data from the Genome Browser and then excises what I think
to be putative promoter regions.  My question is this:

The entirety of the file I'm generating is about 223 megabytes.  Trying to
read in a text file of this size is just ridiculous.  I think this
probably begs for a database application, but I"ve never used any before.
I really don't know any SQL either, aside from the basic concept.

Does anyone have any thoughts about what kind of database is python
friendly and would be easy to use for a beginner?  Also, I assume there
are python modules out there for populating and querying such things?


The only fields I would have would be: Accession Number, Chromosome,
Strand State, Hits (different database calls for the transcription start
site... all integers), and the sequence (this is about 7000 bytes
generally).


Thanks so much,

Joshua Pollack




From magnus@thinkware.se  Mon Jul 28 14:32:44 2003
From: magnus@thinkware.se (Magnus Lycka)
Date: Mon Jul 28 13:32:44 2003
Subject: [Tutor] =?ISO-8859-1?B?UmU6IFtUdXRvcl0gR2V0IG1lIG91dCBvZiB0aGUgYmx1ZSAoaGVscCB1cmdlbnRseSBuZWVkZWQhKQ==?=
Message-ID: 

Obviously, this has nothing to do with Python, but if you
set up an environment variable such as HOME during startup,
and it's not in the control panel settings, it's probably
either in an AUTOEXEC.BAT or in some kind of net logon script.

-----Ursprungligt meddelande-----
Fr=E5n: Gregor Lingl 
Skickat: 2003-07-22  08:42:18
Till: Danny Yoo
Kopia: tutor@python.org
=C4mne: Re: [Tutor] Get me out of the blue (help urgently needed!)

> I tried this yesterday, and indeed at the DOS prompt HOME had the
> value "C:\epacris....", although it didn't show up as an environment=20
> variable
> in 'system' of the control panel any more.

--=20
Magnus Lycka, Thinkware AB
Alvans vag 99, SE-907 50 UMEA, SWEDEN
phone: int+46 70 582 80 65, fax: int+46 70 612 80 65
http://www.thinkware.se/  mailto:magnus@thinkware.se


From tpc@csua.berkeley.edu  Mon Jul 28 14:44:13 2003
From: tpc@csua.berkeley.edu (tpc@csua.berkeley.edu)
Date: Mon Jul 28 13:44:13 2003
Subject: [Tutor] database question
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <20030728103744.Q39152-100000@localhost.name>

the easiest way to get going is to download and install MySQL and then
Python-MySQL module.  Once you have both setup a quick run of a testdb.py
script will show you how easy it is to get Python talking with MySQL:


#!/usr/bin/env python

import MySQLdb
DB = 'test'

def create_BIOINFO_table():
    conn = MySQLdb.Connection(db=DB)
    cursor = conn.cursor()
    sql = """CREATE TABLE BIOINFO (
              ACCESSION_NUMBER INT AUTO_INCREMENT PRIMARY KEY NOT NULL,
              CHROMOSOME VARCHAR(15) NOT NULL
              ) TYPE = InnoDB;"""
    result = cursor.execute(sql)
    conn.close()

create_BIOINFO_table()



On Mon, 28 Jul 2003 jpollack@socrates.Berkeley.EDU wrote:

>
> Hi,
>
> For all of you pythonistas that use the language to handle large amounts
> of data, especially in a bioinformatic context:
>
> I'm pretty new to the language and up to this point, I've been able to
> make do with storing data in a text file.  However, I'm building a tool
> that digs out data from the Genome Browser and then excises what I think
> to be putative promoter regions.  My question is this:
>
> The entirety of the file I'm generating is about 223 megabytes.  Trying to
> read in a text file of this size is just ridiculous.  I think this
> probably begs for a database application, but I"ve never used any before.
> I really don't know any SQL either, aside from the basic concept.
>
> Does anyone have any thoughts about what kind of database is python
> friendly and would be easy to use for a beginner?  Also, I assume there
> are python modules out there for populating and querying such things?
>
>
> The only fields I would have would be: Accession Number, Chromosome,
> Strand State, Hits (different database calls for the transcription start
> site... all integers), and the sequence (this is about 7000 bytes
> generally).
>
>
> Thanks so much,
>
> Joshua Pollack
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Tutor maillist  -  Tutor@python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor
>



From jeff@ccvcorp.com  Mon Jul 28 14:47:02 2003
From: jeff@ccvcorp.com (Jeff Shannon)
Date: Mon Jul 28 13:47:02 2003
Subject: [Tutor] Line Continuation Confusion
References: <00BBF6F79C12644E9F83EA55929390E1023BBCEE@mars.covenant.com> <3F229337.6040003@venix.com>
Message-ID: <3F2561B6.8080502@ccvcorp.com>

Lloyd Kvam wrote:

> Robertson, David S. wrote:
>
>> I have read several books about line continuation in Python, and I am 
>> told consistently that "Python also joins adjacent physical lines 
>> into one logical line if an open parenthesis ((), bracket ([), or 
>> brace ({) has not yet been closed."  ("Python in a Nutshell", Alex 
>> Martelli, O'Reilly) 
>
>
> BUT you must break at a "syntax whitespace" point in the line, 
> typically after
> a comma.  [...]
>
> I usually use the backslash to tie my SQL lines together.
>
> This works nicely because Python (like C) automatically concatenates
> successive string literals.
> "abcdefg" "hijklmn"  become "abcdefghijklmn".
>
> "SELECT count(*) " \
>         "FROM SchoolPlans " \
>         "WHERE SchoolsId = 1;"
> becomes
> "SELECT count(*) FROM SchoolPlans WHERE SchoolsId = 1;" 


In fact, the backslashes are unnecessary in this case (though they don't 
hurt).  If you're within an open set of parens, sequential strings are 
automatically concatenated.

 >>> def f(foo):
...     print foo
...    
 >>>
 >>> f("This is a "
...   "long string that's "
...   "split across several lines.")
This is a long string that's split across several lines.
 >>>

Jeff Shannon
Technician/Programmer
Credit International




From jeff@ccvcorp.com  Mon Jul 28 14:55:05 2003
From: jeff@ccvcorp.com (Jeff Shannon)
Date: Mon Jul 28 13:55:05 2003
Subject: [Tutor] Boa Better Os Alert!
References: <18.3352018c.2c5629fc@aol.com>
Message-ID: <3F256381.5010102@ccvcorp.com>

RASTM2@aol.com wrote:

>Ray --In a message dated 7/27/03 3:55:38 PM Central Daylight Time, 
>tutor-request@python.org writes:
>
>>I'm having trouble with a documented bug in the Boa readme file.
>>    
>>
>
>This line is incorrect. The problem is the OS.
>As it turns out, JanC on the comp.lang.python said that my
>Win98 installation would not work the Boa if I used the Unicode
>version of wxPython. 
>

I believe that the wxPython web page warns that the Unicode build may 
not work properly under Win9x, because those versions of Windows don't 
have full Unicode support -- from the wxPython website, "It will also 
mostly work on Windows 95/98/Me systems, but it is a bit of a hack-job." 
 So it's not too surprising that something like Boa, which stretches 
wxPython to its fullest, has problems running the Unicode build on the 
Win9x series...

>I swapped the installation over to the ASCII version of wxPython and BAM, 
>I gotta Boa!.
>

Glad that works for you.  :)  Btw, if you have further problems with 
wxPython or Boa, you'll probably get a more effective response from the 
wxPython-users mailing list (see http://wxpython.org/maillist.php) than 
here...

Jeff Shannon
Technician/Programmer
Credit International




From SWidney@ci.las-vegas.nv.us  Mon Jul 28 14:58:02 2003
From: SWidney@ci.las-vegas.nv.us (Scott Widney)
Date: Mon Jul 28 13:58:02 2003
Subject: [Tutor] Re:Help on Tutor
Message-ID: <0E5508EBA1620743B409A2B8365DE16FDC86E8@sovereign.ci.las-vegas.nv.us>

> An alternative way of doing this, without as much string 
> manipulation, can
> be to use the "modulo" (remainder) operator.  Anything 
> divided by 100 will
> leave a remainder between 0 and 99.
> 
> ###
> >>> int(time.time()) % 100
> 16
> ###
> 
Oops. Good catch! I tell you, I have a one-track mind. Someone mentioned
string manipulation at the beginning of the thread and I couldn't see past
it. Certainly shows the value of having many eyes looking at both the
problem and the solution. Thanks!


From choncho101@radio.fm  Mon Jul 28 14:59:06 2003
From: choncho101@radio.fm (antonio salgado)
Date: Mon Jul 28 13:59:06 2003
Subject: [Tutor] newbie!!!
Message-ID: <20030728175649.79C5A3E17@sitemail.everyone.net>

Hi there to all:
I'm new to programming and would like to ask you for some guidance:
is Python a good start for programming?
what kind or type of projects can I do with it?
are there some web pages that use Python?
Sorry if these questions are dumb, but really need to know.
Geertings to all of you from Mexico.
(I know I'll learn from all of you and hope to help you when I can!!!)

_____________________________________________________________
Why pay $35.00 for a Web Address? iDotz.Net offers Cool Domains
@ Great Prices! Starting at: $8.75/Year. Go: http://www.idotz.net


From jeff@ccvcorp.com  Mon Jul 28 15:09:01 2003
From: jeff@ccvcorp.com (Jeff Shannon)
Date: Mon Jul 28 14:09:01 2003
Subject: [Tutor] ui for Python
References: <1059237737.5587.4.camel@laptop.krantz.se>
Message-ID: <3F2566CF.2080902@ccvcorp.com>

Olof Krantz wrote:

>Hi!
>
>I've been using python for a while, and I've decided to start using guis
>now. I've already tried wxPython, and I like it. Which ui is best?
>

"Best" is a matter of opinion and taste.  Tkinter is usually seen as 
being very easy to get a basic UI running, but difficult to do anything 
more advanced.  wxPython has a steeper initial learning curve, but is 
much more powerful overall.  Some people love PyQT, which is supposedly 
as powerful as wxPython but easier to learn, though there's some 
potential license issues on Win32 (QT is a proprietary product, and 
commercial use on Windows requires a pricey license).  I'm a 
wxPython-user, myself.  I'd say that if you've tried that and liked it, 
you'll probably do just fine to stick with it.

>And I have one more question. How do I add stuff to a wxGridSizer? I
>haven't found any documentation about it, and no code samples either.
>  
>

The docs for sizers are a bit weak.  Try reading the wxPyWiki about 
sizers (http://wiki.wxpython.org/index.cgi/UsingSizers) -- there isn't 
specific info about wxGridSizers there, but much of the same information 
will apply.  For code samples, look in the demo that comes with wxPython 
-- the demo's code is often *the* best documentation for wxPython, and I 
always keep the demo running when I'm writing wxPython code so that I 
can easily refer to it.

If you have further questions about anything wxPython-related, you can 
always ask them on the wxPython-users mailing list (see 
http://wxpython.org/maillist.php), where you're likely to get faster and 
more effective answers than here.

Jeff Shannon
Technician/Programmer
Credit International




From dyoo@hkn.eecs.berkeley.edu  Mon Jul 28 15:35:02 2003
From: dyoo@hkn.eecs.berkeley.edu (Danny Yoo)
Date: Mon Jul 28 14:35:02 2003
Subject: [Tutor] database question
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 


On Mon, 28 Jul 2003 jpollack@socrates.Berkeley.EDU wrote:

> For all of you pythonistas that use the language to handle large amounts
> of data, especially in a bioinformatic context:

Hi Joshua,


I'm somewhat familiar with it.  *grin*



> I'm pretty new to the language and up to this point, I've been able to
> make do with storing data in a text file.  However, I'm building a tool
> that digs out data from the Genome Browser and then excises what I think
                              ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Out of curiosity, do you mean GBrowse from the GMOD project?

    http://gmod.sourceforge.net/





> to be putative promoter regions.
>
> The entirety of the file I'm generating is about 223 megabytes.  Trying
> to read in a text file of this size is just ridiculous.


It actually depends on what we are doing!  If we can read it as a 'stream'
--- that is, if we can read it line by line, and don't have to keep the
whole file in memory --- then the size of the file isn't a limiting
factor.


That is, something like:

###
for line in myfile:
    print line
###

will work perfectly well regardless of file size, because we only keep a
single line in memory at a time.




It's when we're doing something like:

###
lines = myfile.readlines()
###

that file size matters, since now this code tries to keep all of the lines
in memory at once.


But you're right: searching for information in this file won't be too
feasible if it's in flat text format, since you'll probably want to find
specific records really fast.  It does sound worthwhile, then, to learn
how to use databases.



> The only fields I would have would be: Accession Number, Chromosome,
> Strand State, Hits (different database calls for the transcription start
> site... all integers), and the sequence (this is about 7000 bytes
> generally).

Sounds good.  Have you tried MySQL or PostgreSQL?  I know a few of us are
just starting to experiment with MySQL now, so you're in good company.
*grin*


At the moment, I'm more familiar with MySQL than PostgreSQL. There is a
good tutorial on MySQL and Python programming here:

    http://www.devshed.com/Server_Side/Python/PythonMySQL/print_html


You will probably need to install the third-party 'MySQLdb' module:

    http://sourceforge.net/projects/mysql-python


Doing databases is actually not too bad; there are a few pitfalls, but we
can help you avoid those.  *grin* Please feel free to ask more questions;
we'll be glad to help.


Good luck!



From jeff@ccvcorp.com  Mon Jul 28 15:42:26 2003
From: jeff@ccvcorp.com (Jeff Shannon)
Date: Mon Jul 28 14:42:26 2003
Subject: [Tutor] newbie!!!
References: <20030728175649.79C5A3E17@sitemail.everyone.net>
Message-ID: <3F256E67.90605@ccvcorp.com>

antonio salgado wrote:

>Hi there to all:
>I'm new to programming and would like to ask you for some guidance:
>is Python a good start for programming?
>

Yes.  One of the design goals of Python has been that it should be 
relatively easy for non-programmers to use, and there's been a growing 
effort to get Python used as an instructional language for beginning 
programming students.  Some would make the case that Python is the 
*best* place to start programming.  ;)

>what kind or type of projects can I do with it?
>

Just about anything.  You might have difficulties writing core operating 
system libraries and device drivers, but other than that it's pretty 
much wide open.  Word processing, image editing, database applications, 
web services, instant messaging clients... all of these and more have 
been done in Python.

>are there some web pages that use Python?
>

There's a fair number of them, some of which are pretty big.  Perhaps 
you've heard of Google? ;)  They make heavy use of Python (among a 
couple of other languages) in their search engine.

>Sorry if these questions are dumb, but really need to know.
>Geertings to all of you from Mexico.
>(I know I'll learn from all of you and hope to help you when I can!!!)
>  
>

Everyone starts somewhere.  And these aren't dumb questions, they're 
valid concerns for someone who's new to programming.  Obviously people 
on this mailing list will be somewhat biased in Python's favor, but I 
think you'll enjoy it.  :)

Jeff Shannon
Technician/Programmer
Credit International




From dyoo@hkn.eecs.berkeley.edu  Mon Jul 28 16:03:13 2003
From: dyoo@hkn.eecs.berkeley.edu (Danny Yoo)
Date: Mon Jul 28 15:03:13 2003
Subject: [Tutor] [OT] MySQLdb on Redhat 9
In-Reply-To: <20030725170423.D21313-100000@localhost.name>
Message-ID: 


Hi tpc,



On Fri, 25 Jul 2003 tpc@csua.berkeley.edu wrote:

> hi Danny, here's a head scratcher...  I do what you suggest after I
> installed the mysql-devel via rpm in response to Michael's
> (klappnase@freenet.de) email:

[some content cut]

> So I ran my script again and it gave me the ImportError again.
> However, I got the idea to try python setup.py build and install from
> source and it worked !  The lesson for next time is, if you want to
> upgrade your default MySQL from 3.23 to 4 and you rpm the server and
> client, be sure to also rpm the "Libraries and Header files" portion.

Yes.  The development libraries are pretty necessary for serious work;
I've always been a bit miffed that Red Hat bundles the development headers
separately from the main RPMs, though I understand that they have good
reasons for doing the separation.



> I am not sure why the rpm of MySQL-devel did not work, but it certainly
> allowed the build and install from source to work, which I am grateful
> for.


It actually does make slightly perverse sense.  Here's a summary of what I
think was going on (cc'd to tutor@python.org as a followup):



You had initially had Red Hat's Python installed.  Some time ago, I think
you installed an unofficial RPM of Python 2.3, which overwrote Red Hat's
Python.  (This was sorta bad: it would have been much better to install
Python 2.3 in a separate "local" directory so that it doesn't conflict.
Oh well.)


Later, when you tried installed the MySQL-Python RPM, you ran into
problems.  That's because the MySQL-Python RPM is hardcoded to work with
the Python that's was initially installed with your Red Hat distribution,
not Python 2.3.  Extension modules are version specific, and since you had
installed Python 2.3, the RPM's won't work with it.


So your only recourse is to do it with source.  You tried compiling
MySQL-Python from source, and again ran into problems, but this time, with
compiling the extension module:


> > running build_ext building '_mysql' extension creating
> > build/temp.linux-i686-2.2 gcc -DNDEBUG -O2 -g -pipe -march=i386
> > -mcpu=i686 -D_GNU_SOURCE -fPIC -I/usr/include/mysql
> > -I/usr/local/include/mysql -I/usr/local/mysql/include/mysql
> > -I/usr/include/python2.2 -c _mysql.c -o
> > build/temp.linux-i686-2.2/_mysql.o
>
> > _mysql.c:41:19: mysql.h: No such file or directory


But this too is explainable: compiling anything that deals with MySQL
requires MySQL's development headers, which are included in the
'MySQL-devel' RPM.  As soon as you installed the development package, then
doing:

    python setup.py install

worked.



(Just to clarify: The MySQL-devel RPM not only will allow you to install
Python's MySQLdb module, but drivers for other languages (like Perl's DBI
module) as well.  MySQL-devel consists of a bunch of C header files, so
it's not specifically designed for Python.  You can think of them as the
defined API "interface", and anything that uses that API needs to see that
interface to compile properly.)



Hope this helps elucidate things!  *grin*



From dyoo@hkn.eecs.berkeley.edu  Mon Jul 28 16:31:47 2003
From: dyoo@hkn.eecs.berkeley.edu (Danny Yoo)
Date: Mon Jul 28 15:31:47 2003
Subject: [Tutor] database question   [files can be iterated on]
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 


On Mon, 28 Jul 2003 jpollack@socrates.Berkeley.EDU wrote:

> > Out of curiosity, do you mean GBrowse from the GMOD project?
> >
>      http://gmod.sourceforge.net/
>
> No, the Genome Browser at UCSC.  I'll have a look at the site above... is
> it a collection of python tools for bioinformatics?

Unfortunately not Python.  GMOD is an umbrella project headed by many of
the main biological databases.  I'm working on the Publication Literature
component ("Pubsearch"), which is mostly in Java (with some Jython and
Perl sprinked in there...)




I'm doing a CC to the rest of the Tutor group, since your next question is
a very good one:


> > ###
> > for line in myfile:
> >     print line
> > ###
> >
> > will work perfectly well regardless of file size, because we only keep a
> > single line in memory at a time.
>
> Ok.  Stupid Question time.  in the above example, doesn't "myfile" have
> to be read in as a file ahead of time?  (e.g.
> myfile=open('blahblah.txt').read() ?)



No, it's actually perfectly fine to just open up a file:

###
myfile = open('blahblah.txt')
###


myfile is an open file, and we can think of it as a source of information.
We can then progressively read its information from it in a loop.  We can
do it line by line like this:

###
for line in myfile:
    ....
###



It's important to see that this process is very different from:

###
myfile = open('blahblah.txt').read()
###


There might be a slight confusion here because we're using a variable
named 'myfile', but it's not a file at all, but a string of the contents
of that file.  Hmmm... that sounds confusing.  *grin*


Ok, let's try this.  It helps to see if it we split up the expression into
two lines:


###
myfile = open('blahblah.txt')
contents = myfile.read()
###


In this case, we're asking Python to read the whole contents of myfile.
Does the distinction make sense?




The same reasoning applies to:

###
myfile = open('blahblah.txt')
lines = myfile.readlines()
###

and is something we should try to avoid, if we expect our files to be
huge.  'lines' here will become a list of all the lines in myfile, and
that's bad for memory reasons.




The key idea is that we'd like to treat our file as an "iterator", where
we only need to pay attention to the current line, or get the "next" line.
This "iterator" approach saves memory, since an iterator-based approach
only concentrates on a single line at a time.


Python's files support iterators --- most things can be turned into
iterators by using the iter() builtin function.  Explicitly, this looks
like:

###
myfile = open('blahblah.txt')
for line in iter(myfile):
    ...
###


And the 'for' loop has been designed to "march" across any iterator, so
things work out.  In fact, as of Python 2.2, it implicitely does an iter()
on the object it's marching against.  Now we can shorten it to:

###
myfile = open('blahblah.txt')
for line in myfile:
    ...
###


David Mertz has written a small introduction into the concept of an
iterator:

    http://www-106.ibm.com/developerworks/library/l-pycon.html

Please feel free to ask questions about this.




> What are you working on at Berkeley?  It's always good to know some
> locals.  :)


I'm actually working at the Carnegie Institute of Washington:

    http://carnegiedpb.stanford.edu/

So I'm on the other side of the Bay at the moment.  Sorry!  But we're
going to have a BayPiggies meeting sometime next month; drop by if you
have time:

    http://www.baypiggies.net/




> Thanks for the reply, I shall try and get mySQL working along with the
> python interface.  Incidentally, do you know if mySQL has a Windows
> version?


You can check on:

    http://mysql.com/

I'm pretty sure that the MySQL 4 server can run on Windows.  But how well
it runs is another question.  *grin*



Best of wishes to you!



From pythontutor@venix.com  Mon Jul 28 16:34:02 2003
From: pythontutor@venix.com (Lloyd Kvam)
Date: Mon Jul 28 15:34:02 2003
Subject: [Tutor] Line Continuation Confusion
In-Reply-To: <3F2561B6.8080502@ccvcorp.com>
References: <00BBF6F79C12644E9F83EA55929390E1023BBCEE@mars.covenant.com> <3F229337.6040003@venix.com> <3F2561B6.8080502@ccvcorp.com>
Message-ID: <3F257A7C.7080707@venix.com>

Even better.  Thanks.

Jeff Shannon wrote:

> Lloyd Kvam wrote:
> 
>> Robertson, David S. wrote:
>>
>>> I have read several books about line continuation in Python, and I am 
>>> told consistently that "Python also joins adjacent physical lines 
>>> into one logical line if an open parenthesis ((), bracket ([), or 
>>> brace ({) has not yet been closed."  ("Python in a Nutshell", Alex 
>>> Martelli, O'Reilly) 
>>
>>
>>
>> BUT you must break at a "syntax whitespace" point in the line, 
>> typically after
>> a comma.  [...]
>>
>> I usually use the backslash to tie my SQL lines together.
>>
>> This works nicely because Python (like C) automatically concatenates
>> successive string literals.
>> "abcdefg" "hijklmn"  become "abcdefghijklmn".
>>
>> "SELECT count(*) " \
>>         "FROM SchoolPlans " \
>>         "WHERE SchoolsId = 1;"
>> becomes
>> "SELECT count(*) FROM SchoolPlans WHERE SchoolsId = 1;" 
> 
> 
> 
> In fact, the backslashes are unnecessary in this case (though they don't 
> hurt).  If you're within an open set of parens, sequential strings are 
> automatically concatenated.
> 
>  >>> def f(foo):
> ...     print foo
> ...    >>>
>  >>> f("This is a "
> ...   "long string that's "
> ...   "split across several lines.")
> This is a long string that's split across several lines.
>  >>>
> 
> Jeff Shannon
> Technician/Programmer
> Credit International
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Tutor maillist  -  Tutor@python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor
> 

-- 
Lloyd Kvam
Venix Corp.
1 Court Street, Suite 378
Lebanon, NH 03766-1358

voice:	603-443-6155
fax:	801-459-9582



From magnus@thinkware.se  Mon Jul 28 16:38:01 2003
From: magnus@thinkware.se (Magnus Lycka)
Date: Mon Jul 28 15:38:01 2003
Subject: [Tutor] =?ISO-8859-1?B?UmU6IFtUdXRvcl0gc29ydGluZyBhICdsYXJnZScgZGF0YWZpbGU=?=
Message-ID: 

-----Ursprungligt meddelande-----
Fr=E5n: Wilhelmsen Jan 
Skickat: 2003-07-22  15:59:59
Till: 'tutor@python.org'
=C4mne: [Tutor] sorting a 'large' datafile

> I tried to read in all the lines but everything crashes when I do.

There is no reason that reading a file of that size should
cause a crash. What kind of error do you get?

Make sure that you run your program from a command prompt or
from within an IDE (PythonWin or IDLE etc) so that you get to
see tracebacks if you get a Python exception.

If you just double-click on a .py-file and the program exits
with an error, you won't see what happened...

--=20
Magnus Lycka, Thinkware AB
Alvans vag 99, SE-907 50 UMEA, SWEDEN
phone: int+46 70 582 80 65, fax: int+46 70 612 80 65
http://www.thinkware.se/  mailto:magnus@thinkware.se


From dyoo@hkn.eecs.berkeley.edu  Mon Jul 28 19:33:35 2003
From: dyoo@hkn.eecs.berkeley.edu (Danny Yoo)
Date: Mon Jul 28 18:33:35 2003
Subject: [Tutor] newbie!!!   [sample source code at Useless Python and
 Vaults of Parnassus]
In-Reply-To: <3F256E67.90605@ccvcorp.com>
Message-ID: 


On Mon, 28 Jul 2003, Jeff Shannon wrote:


Hi Antonio,


> >what kind or type of projects can I do with it?
>
> Just about anything.  You might have difficulties writing core operating
> system libraries and device drivers, but other than that it's pretty
> much wide open.  Word processing, image editing, database applications,
> web services, instant messaging clients... all of these and more have
> been done in Python.


There's a great web site that has examples of code that people on the
Tutor list have written.  It's called "Useless Python":

    http://uselesspython.com

There's a lot of examples there that show all kinds of programs there.
If you browse around, you may get a better feel for what kind of things we
can program in python.



There is a more "serious" collection of Python programmers at the Vaults
of Parnassus:

    http://www.vex.net/parnassus


Good luck to you!



From idiot1@netzero.net  Mon Jul 28 20:39:09 2003
From: idiot1@netzero.net (Kirk Bailey)
Date: Mon Jul 28 19:39:09 2003
Subject: [Tutor] wiki WORDS
In-Reply-To: 
References: <3F21ADF9.9080302@netzero.net>	 <3F21EA0B.20003@netzero.net> 
Message-ID: <3F25B3DF.2080603@netzero.net>


Karl Pflästerer wrote:

> On 26 Jul 2003, Kirk Bailey <- idiot1@netzero.net wrote:
> 
> Hi Kirk,
> 
> 
>>(Guten Morgen Mine Herr?)
>>(about 20% of my command of German, and I think the spelling is way off...)
> 
> 
> Well my english is only slightly better (sadly).  Merrily the way you
> wrote it is sounds in german like a mixture from german and dutch.  And
> as Python is from GvR and he is from the netherlands it's kind of funny.
>
There ARE no coincidences, and God(dess?) DOES SO have a sense of humor...

And your English typing is delightful. I would never dare this 
conversation in German. Or Hawaiian. I'm startled I *HAVE THE NERVE* to 
do it in English, my mother tounge.

> [...]
> 
>>I am aware of it. Possibly I misunderstand you, or you me? I am not
>>'critical' of ANYTHING, I just want to understand this, and write one
>>myself, and install a few minor refinements, like the ability to
>>easily customize the header and footer.
> 
> 
> Perhaps I used the word critique in a sense it#s not used in english.  I
> used it the way it's used in academic speech where it doesn't imply per
> se a negative meaning.  I see critique as a good thing as it can help to
> improve things.

Ah, I see, good.  My 'critique' of moinmoin is not a moral condemnation 
of it or anyone else, but rather a concern for the security of a server 
with 2 commercial websites, and several noncommercial ones. It has never 
been cracked; I like that record.
> 
> 
>>I never wrote a wiki before. I want to write a basic one, that
>>duplicates a simple wiki. MoinMoin is more advanced, and would be an
>>even more difficult challenge to duplicate.
> 
> 
> I understand now your motivation.  It sounds interesting.  If I find the
> time I will subscríbe to that mailing list.
> 
Hmm, now THERE's a thought. OK, I will go create a list over on the 
tinylist site. This will take >1< minute....

ok, done.  the list now exists. Here is where to go to join it:
http://www.tinylist.org/cgi-bin/TLwebform2.py?wiki-project

Also, there is an EXISTING if minimal wiki, 'piki', on the site. Here's 
THAT url:

http://www.tinylist.org/cgi-bin/piki.py



>>The one on the site now is working. Took an hour to get everything
>>right, and away it went! Spent most of the evening after that playing
>>with it. Alas, it is very strong in the use of CLASSES and OBJECTS,
>>and I am still  hammering OOP and CLASSES into my brain through my
>>concrete skull.
> 
> 
> I have a split opinion towards OOP.  I see a lot of cases where IMO a
> eg. functional approach would be a lot easier to grok.
> 
Sometimes it is, according to some notable correspondants. Note the wiki 
now sports a BASIC explanation of oop. I found a introductory tutorial 
that managed to drive a crack into the concrete! :-)

> [...]
> 
> In <3F22121B.7070806@netzero.net> Kirk Bailey wrote:
> 
> [...]
> 
> 
>>I can see it is going to be quite a spell wrapping my brains around
>>this enough to be able to write one.
> 
> 
>>Someday, someday...
> 
> 
> I always say to myself if I see such a great piece of software that the
> people who wrote it also started with a simple solution and it evolved
> over time.  Look eg. at TeX (well DEK is an exception; I would really
> like to get to know him and to see how such an extremly intelligent man
> is in `normal life').
> 
> [...]
> 
>    Karl

-- 

-- 

end

Cheers!
         Kirk D Bailey

  +                              think                                +
   http://www.howlermonkey.net  +-----+        http://www.tinylist.org
   http://www.listville.net     | BOX |  http://www.sacredelectron.org
   Thou art free"-ERIS          +-----+     'Got a light?'-Promethieus
  +                              think                                +

Fnord.



From clay@shirky.com  Mon Jul 28 23:45:02 2003
From: clay@shirky.com (Clay Shirky)
Date: Mon Jul 28 22:45:02 2003
Subject: [Tutor] Newbie question: Google API on OS X
In-Reply-To: <3F25B3DF.2080603@netzero.net>
Message-ID: 

I'm trying to run a Google API query in Python, on an OSX machine, using
python 2.2

Mark Pilgrim's google module fails with an error

  File "./SOAP.py", line 2790, in _parseSOAP
    parser = xml.sax.make_parser()
  File "/BinaryCache/python/python-3.root~193/
     usr/lib/python2.2/xml/sax/__init__.py", line 93, in make_parser
  xml.sax._exceptions.SAXReaderNotAvailable: No parsers found

Attempting to update SOAP.py to 0.10.2, via 'python setup.py install' fails
with the error

  File "SOAPpy/wstools/XMLSchema.py", line 14, in ?
    from xml.dom.ext import SplitQName
  ImportError: No module named ext

Is the Mac python 2.2 non-standard? Do I need an additional xml module? Or
is there another way to run the Google API?

Thanks,

-clay



From lonetwin@yahoo.com  Tue Jul 29 04:42:01 2003
From: lonetwin@yahoo.com (lonetwin)
Date: Tue Jul 29 03:42:01 2003
Subject: [Tutor] [Very OT] MySQLdb on Redhat 9
In-Reply-To: <3F253513.5010500@unixremedies.com>
References: <20030725134113.V20475-100000@localhost.name> <3F253513.5010500@unixremedies.com>
Message-ID: <200307291325.17355.lonetwin@yahoo.com>

Hi there,
     Just a some rpm tips.
To list all the files installed by a rpm do a 
    rpm -ql 

To list all the files that a (not yet installed) rpm _would_ install do a
    rpm -qpl 
    eg: rpm -qpl MySQL-python-0.9.2-1.i386.rpm

To list the rpm that a particular file belongs to, do a 
    rpm -qf /path/to/file

HTH
Peace
Steve

-- 
You or I must yield up his life to Ahrimanes.  I would rather it were you.
I should have no hesitation in sacrificing my own life to spare yours, but
we take stock next week, and it would not be fair on the company.
		-- J. Wellington Wells


From klappnase@freenet.de  Tue Jul 29 07:29:02 2003
From: klappnase@freenet.de (klappnase)
Date: Tue Jul 29 06:29:02 2003
Subject: [Tutor] Re: How to stop screensaver from starting up
In-Reply-To: <20030728202229.GD14508@unpythonic.net>
References: <9a410299.0307280614.444cc2b2@posting.google.com>
 <20030728202229.GD14508@unpythonic.net>
Message-ID: <20030729122942.595bd056.klappnase@freenet.de>

On Mon, 28 Jul 2003 15:22:29 -0500
Jeff Epler  wrote:

Hello Jeff,

thanks for the feedback.
> 
> For systems using xscreensaver, see xscreensaver-command(1).
> 
> You could use
>     xscreensaver-command -throttle
> to force screen blanking (not screensaver) when the system is idle
> or 
>     xscreensaver-command -exit
> to force the screensaver process to exit.  In the former case, you would
> use
>     xscreensaver-command -unthrottle
> to restart the screensaver, and in the latter case
>     xscreensaver -nosplash
> in the latter.
> 
> This is not robust if multiple processes all try to manipulate the
> screensaver without some additional kind of locking.
> 
I know this, but what I had in mind was, if there is a possibility to disable the screensaver directly
from within python/tkinter just as long as a certain process in my application is running
(it's the recording issue I had posted here some time ago, there seems to be a memory leak
every time a screensaver starts up). The basic problem is that the xscreensaver-command will not
work if someone uses kde-screensavers.
I am sorry if this is a silly question, may be what I want is not really possible at all.
I just thought this might be an easier way to solve this recording problem, if my application
could "grab" the screen while recording is running, than trying a workaround for the snack recording function.

Best regards and thanks again

Michael


From webmaster@dte.ua.pt  Tue Jul 29 08:39:54 2003
From: webmaster@dte.ua.pt (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?M=E1rio_Gamito?=)
Date: Tue Jul 29 07:39:54 2003
Subject: [Tutor] problems in a python script
Message-ID: <3F265CDA.9090004@dte.ua.pt>

Hi,

I've downloaded the 30 days trial version of editize and followed the 
instructions in http://plone.org/Members/tlynch/HowToIntegrateEditize
to install it.

Everything runs smoothly  until the creation of munge.py as explained in 
the above link. I get an error saying

  " Script line 4
     inputvalue = inputvalue.replace("\r", "")
     ^
SyntaxError: invalid syntax"

A curious thing is that when i save it, not only i get the above error, 
but also the lines begining with double cardinal (##) are gone!!!

Also the text refers to "Note: you might need to edit the line calling 
munge in wysiwyg_support to reflect the name of your folder where all 
the Editize stuff is stored."

Where is this is done ?

Thank you in advance for your time and patience.

Warm Regards,
Mário Gamito




munge.py
-----------------------------------------------------
## Script (Python) "munge"
    ##bind container=container
    ##bind context=context
    ##bind namespace=
    ##bind script=script
    ##bind subpath=traverse_subpath
    ##parameters=inputvalue
    ##title=

    # to guard against files that might contain only
    # returns or linefeeds, we will delete each separately
    # rather than trying: replace("\r\n", "")
    inputvalue = inputvalue.replace("\r", "")
    inputvalue = inputvalue.replace("\n", "")
    inputvalue = inputvalue.replace("'", "'")

    return inputvalue
------------------------------------------------------------



From glingl@aon.at  Tue Jul 29 09:34:50 2003
From: glingl@aon.at (Gregor Lingl)
Date: Tue Jul 29 08:34:50 2003
Subject: [Tutor] problems in a python script
References: <3F265CDA.9090004@dte.ua.pt>
Message-ID: <3F266A00.8010209@aon.at>

Mário Gamito schrieb:

> Hi,
>
> I've downloaded the 30 days trial version of editize and followed the 
> instructions in http://plone.org/Members/tlynch/HowToIntegrateEditize
> to install it.
>
> Everything runs smoothly  until the creation of munge.py as explained 
> in the above link. I get an error saying
>
>  " Script line 4
>     inputvalue = inputvalue.replace("\r", "")
>     ^
> SyntaxError: invalid syntax" 

This looks like if this line were indented some (three ?) blanks from 
the left margin.

In Python blanks (or "white space" in general) has syntactic meaning.
Therefore in a simple script a simple statement like this assignment
MUST NOT be indented.

Remove the indentation and things will work.

HTH, Gregor

>
> A curious thing is that when i save it, not only i get the above 
> error, but also the lines begining with double cardinal (##) are gone!!!
>
> Also the text refers to "Note: you might need to edit the line calling 
> munge in wysiwyg_support to reflect the name of your folder where all 
> the Editize stuff is stored."
>
> Where is this is done ?
>
> Thank you in advance for your time and patience.
>
> Warm Regards,
> Mário Gamito
>
>
>
>
> munge.py
> -----------------------------------------------------
> ## Script (Python) "munge"
>    ##bind container=container
>    ##bind context=context
>    ##bind namespace=
>    ##bind script=script
>    ##bind subpath=traverse_subpath
>    ##parameters=inputvalue
>    ##title=
>
>    # to guard against files that might contain only
>    # returns or linefeeds, we will delete each separately
>    # rather than trying: replace("\r\n", "")
>    inputvalue = inputvalue.replace("\r", "")
>    inputvalue = inputvalue.replace("\n", "")
>    inputvalue = inputvalue.replace("'", "'")
>
>    return inputvalue
> ------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Tutor maillist  -  Tutor@python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor
>
>






From james2dope@yahoo.com  Tue Jul 29 15:35:09 2003
From: james2dope@yahoo.com (james middendorff)
Date: Tue Jul 29 14:35:09 2003
Subject: [Tutor] help with dates
Message-ID: <20030729183446.99998.qmail@web13907.mail.yahoo.com>

I am attempting to write a little program that will
tell you on which day a certain holiday will fall. In
whatever year you want. I am a beginner and was
wondering how I should tackle this project, or is
someone could point my in the right direction? Thanks
for any help

=====
"I would kill everyone in this room
    for a drop of sweet beer."
     ----Homer Simpson----

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software
http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com


From sigurd@12move.de  Tue Jul 29 16:53:01 2003
From: sigurd@12move.de (Karl =?iso-8859-1?q?Pfl=E4sterer?=)
Date: Tue Jul 29 15:53:01 2003
Subject: [Tutor] help with dates
In-Reply-To: <20030729183446.99998.qmail@web13907.mail.yahoo.com> (james
 middendorff's message of "Tue, 29 Jul 2003 11:34:46 -0700 (PDT)")
References: <20030729183446.99998.qmail@web13907.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: 

On 29 Jul 2003, james middendorff <- james2dope@yahoo.com wrote:

> I am attempting to write a little program that will
> tell you on which day a certain holiday will fall. In
> whatever year you want. I am a beginner and was
> wondering how I should tackle this project, or is
> someone could point my in the right direction? Thanks

You could define some fixed date as zero and make all computations with
regard to that date.  Depending on your needs your resolution could be
days or seconds (eg. in Unix day zero is 01.01.1970).  Then you need a
formula to compute leap years; in C that could be (from RFC3339)
,----
|    Here is a sample C subroutine to calculate if a year is a leap year:
| 
|    /* This returns non-zero if year is a leap year.  Must use 4 digit
|       year.
|     */
|    int leap_year(int year)
|    {
|        return (year % 4 == 0 && (year % 100 != 0 || year % 400 == 0));
|    }
`----

After the computation you transfer the days or seconds back to a date.

Leap seconds can't be computed but must be looked up in a table.

,----[ rfc3339 ]
|    The following table is an excerpt from the table maintained by the
|    United States Naval Observatory.  The source data is located at:
| 
|       
|    This table shows the date of the leap second, and the difference
|    between the time standard TAI (which isn't adjusted by leap seconds)
|    and UTC after that leap second.
| 
|    UTC Date  TAI - UTC After Leap Second
|    --------  ---------------------------
|    1972-06-30     11
|    1972-12-31     12
|    1973-12-31     13
|    1974-12-31     14
|    1975-12-31     15
|    1976-12-31     16
|    1977-12-31     17
|    1978-12-31     18
|    1979-12-31     19
|    1981-06-30     20
|    1982-06-30     21
|    1983-06-30     22
|    1985-06-30     23
|    1987-12-31     24
|    1989-12-31     25
|    1990-12-31     26
|    1992-06-30     27
|    1993-06-30     28
|    1994-06-30     29
|    1995-12-31     30
|    1997-06-30     31
|    1998-12-31     32
`----



   Karl
-- 
Please do *not* send copies of replies to me.
I read the list



From dyoo@hkn.eecs.berkeley.edu  Tue Jul 29 17:38:01 2003
From: dyoo@hkn.eecs.berkeley.edu (Danny Yoo)
Date: Tue Jul 29 16:38:01 2003
Subject: [Tutor] help with dates
In-Reply-To: <20030729183446.99998.qmail@web13907.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: 


On Tue, 29 Jul 2003, james middendorff wrote:

> I am attempting to write a little program that will tell you on which
> day a certain holiday will fall. In whatever year you want. I am a
> beginner and was wondering how I should tackle this project, or is
> someone could point my in the right direction? Thanks for any help


Hey James, long time no chat.  *grin*


For holidays that are consistently held on a certain day, you may be able
to use the 'calendar' module (or maybe not!  Read below.):

    http://www.python.org/doc/lib/module-calendar.html


It has a function called 'weekday()' that sounds almost right:

###
>>> calendar.weekday(2003, 7, 29)
1
###


weekday() returns the day number (0 is monday, 1 is tuesday, etc...).



The only problem with it is that it depends on a certain function that's
limited to dates after 1970!  The reason for it is this: calendar uses the
time module, which itself depends on the computer system clock.  And all
computer clocks start, not at Year 0, but at the "Epoch" (January 1970).
If we try going below that range, we'll hit an error:


###
>>> calendar.weekday(1009,7,29)
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "", line 1, in ?
  File "/home/dyoo/local/Python-2.2.1/lib/python2.2/calendar.py", line
106, in weekday
    secs = mktime((year, month, day, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0))
ValueError: year out of range
###


So the straightforward approach, using the 'calendar' module, probably
isn't robust enough for your problem.




For more serious date-time stuff, you may want to look at the mx.DateTime
module instead:

    http://www.lemburg.com/files/python/mxDateTime.html

And here, it works:

###
>>> import mx.DateTime
>>> date = mx.DateTime.DateTime(1009, 7, 29)
>>> date.day_of_week
5
###



Hope this helps!




From wildthing777@hotmail.com  Tue Jul 29 18:19:23 2003
From: wildthing777@hotmail.com (Asia Turner-Bridger)
Date: Tue Jul 29 17:19:23 2003
Subject: [Tutor] help
Message-ID: 

hi,
i'm having problems running programs. with the basic stuff. such as when i 
write "width = input ("enter width:")" then press enter with the intention 
of continueing writing the program and running it later. it then as soon as 
i press enter orders me to "enter the width:" so i have to- therefore 
messing up my program. when i want it to run all together at once. and just 
continue to write "length = input ("enter length:")".

how can i sort out my problem? what am i doing wrong? is it because i press 
enter?

thanx

_________________________________________________________________
Get Hotmail on your mobile phone http://www.msn.co.uk/msnmobile



From uche.ogbuji@fourthought.com  Tue Jul 29 18:19:43 2003
From: uche.ogbuji@fourthought.com (Uche Ogbuji)
Date: Tue Jul 29 17:19:43 2003
Subject: [Tutor] Re: [XML-SIG] XML documentation
In-Reply-To: Message from cybersamurai@mac.com
 of "Sun, 20 Jul 2003 23:22:43 -0300." <359178A8-BB22-11D7-B454-000393B10A78@mac.com>
Message-ID: <20030726145716.1702B1340AC@borgia.local>

> I need know here I can find documentation about XML and Python. I know 
> How read and write a new XML file but I don't know edit.

I offer:

http://www.xml.com/pub/q/pyxml
http://uche.ogbuji.net/tech/akara/nodes/2003-01-01/pyxml-akara


-- 
Uche Ogbuji                                    Fourthought, Inc.
http://uche.ogbuji.net    http://4Suite.org    http://fourthought.com
XML Data Bindings in Python, Part 2 - http://www.xml.com/pub/a/2003/07/02/py-xm
l.html
Introducing Examplotron - http://www-106.ibm.com/developerworks/xml/library/x-x
mptron/
Charming Jython - http://www-106.ibm.com/developerworks/java/library/j-jython.h
tml
Python, Web services, and XSLT - http://www-106.ibm.com/developerworks/xml/libr
ary/ws-pyth13/
A custom-fit career in app development - http://www.adtmag.com/article.asp?id=7
744




From thomi@thomi.imail.net.nz  Tue Jul 29 18:24:01 2003
From: thomi@thomi.imail.net.nz (Thomas Clive Richards)
Date: Tue Jul 29 17:24:01 2003
Subject: [Tutor] help
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <20030730092305.42d81c22.thomi@thomi.imail.net.nz>

> how can i sort out my problem? what am i doing wrong? is it because i
> press enter?

Hi,

python has a command line interpreter, which sounds like what you're
using. If you want to run all the commands at once, create a text file
and give it a .py extension. in this file, write your program. Note that
under windows, it's a good idea to put "timport time" at the top , and
"time.sleep(10)" at the bottom. This will cause the output window to
remain open for 10 seconds after the program has finished running.

HTH!

-- 

Thomi Richards,
thomi@thomi.imail.net.nz



From jeff@ccvcorp.com  Tue Jul 29 18:53:01 2003
From: jeff@ccvcorp.com (Jeff Shannon)
Date: Tue Jul 29 17:53:01 2003
Subject: [Tutor] help
References:  <20030730092305.42d81c22.thomi@thomi.imail.net.nz>
Message-ID: <3F26ECBA.1050600@ccvcorp.com>

Thomas Clive Richards wrote:

>>how can i sort out my problem? what am i doing wrong? is it because i
>>press enter?
>>    
>>
>
>Hi,
>
>python has a command line interpreter, which sounds like what you're
>using. If you want to run all the commands at once, create a text file
>and give it a .py extension. in this file, write your program. Note that
>under windows, it's a good idea to put "timport time" at the top , and
>"time.sleep(10)" at the bottom. This will cause the output window to
>remain open for 10 seconds after the program has finished running.
>  
>

Another (probably preferable) way to accomplish that is to simply add 
this line to the end of the program:

raw_input("Press Enter to end this program.")

raw_input() will wait for something to be entered, i.e. for the return 
key to be pressed.  We don't really care at this point what's typed, 
just so long as the program waits until *something* has been done to end 
it, so this works pretty well.  

The O.P.'s problem can also be solved within the interactive 
interpreter, though.  The trick is to put the sequence of things that 
you want to do inside a function, using the def keyword --

 >>> def show_area():
...     width = input("Enter width: ")
...     length = input("Enter length: ")
...     area = width * length
...     print "The area is:", area
...    
 >>>

Now you can call show_area() as a shorthand for all of those commands at 
once, like so:

 >>> show_area()
Enter width:  5
Enter length:  8
The area is: 40
 >>>

Even if you do put your code in a separate file (which you'd need to do 
if you want to save it and run it at a later date), it's a very good 
idea to put everything into functions like this.  By separating your 
program into small pieces, it becomes a lot easier to understand what's 
going on in each part, which makes it easier to understand what's 
happening overall too.

Jeff Shannon
Technician/Programmer
Credit International




From nas-pytut@python.ca  Tue Jul 29 19:35:02 2003
From: nas-pytut@python.ca (Neil Schemenauer)
Date: Tue Jul 29 18:35:02 2003
Subject: [Tutor] Newbie question: Google API on OS X
In-Reply-To: 
References: <3F25B3DF.2080603@netzero.net> 
Message-ID: <20030729224022.GA29410@glacier.arctrix.com>

Clay Shirky wrote:
> Is the Mac python 2.2 non-standard? Do I need an additional xml module? Or
> is there another way to run the Google API?

I can't help you directly since I'm not an XML person.  You might have
better luck posting to the XML SIG list:

    http://www.python.org/sigs/xml-sig/

You could also check out the XML topical documentation on python.org:

    http://pyxml.sourceforge.net/topics/docs.html

HTH,

  Neil


From Andy Dulson   Tue Jul 29 19:42:05 2003
From: Andy Dulson  (Andy Dulson)
Date: Tue Jul 29 18:42:05 2003
Subject: Re[2]: [Tutor] help with dates
In-Reply-To: 
References: <20030729183446.99998.qmail@web13907.mail.yahoo.com>
 
Message-ID: <15430012370.20030729233906@discorice.org>

Tuesday, July 29, 2003, Karl Pflästerer wrote:

KP> Then you need a formula to compute leap years;

I'm a complete newbie when it comes to Python, but thought this might
be of interest. When you have your function to compute leap years, the
following formula might be useful. It gives the day of the week on
which a given date falls. Let

d = the day of the month (ie 1st)

m = month (starting with 1 for March, 2 for April,... and 12 for
February)

c = century (first two digits of the year)

y = the year in the century (the last two digits of the year)

L = 1 if the year is leap year, 0 otherwise

w = the day of the week (Sunday = 0, Monday = 1, ... Saturday = 6)

Then:

w = d + [2.6m-0.2] + y + [y/4] -2c + [c/4] - (L+1)[m/11] (mod 7)

[x] represents the greatest integer function, the largest n such that
n <= x, ie math.floor(x)

This is copied virtually verbatim from my number theory lecture notes.
The proof was an optional exercise so I, um, don't have it to hand.
They give a nice example to shows it works though. It works for dates
from 1582 onwards, when the Gregorian calendar was adopted,
apparently.

Hope this is useful, or at the very least interesting.

Andy



From idiot1@netzero.net  Tue Jul 29 21:42:01 2003
From: idiot1@netzero.net (Kirk Bailey)
Date: Tue Jul 29 20:42:01 2003
Subject: [Tutor] OHMYGOD...
Message-ID: <3F2711FB.3070804@netzero.net>

OOPS...

We lost the site. ALL of it. EVERY last file. Completely erased. And I 
am embarrissed to admit I did it myself.

I installed the moinmoin wiki. I decided it was iinsecure and went to 
delete the thing, and all it's subdirectories. I *THOUGHT* I was in the 
moin-1.0 dir when I issued "rm -R *".

I was in the domain's webroot. The entire domain (the box holds several) 
went away.

NOW, *YOU* LEARN FROM *MY* TRAGIC MISTAKE. DON'T DO THAT!

Good thing the hosting firm does backups, even when it's my box. BAD 
news is the last one was 3 weeks ago. TinyList.1.7.3 is GONE, tarball 
ANd working installation. Several site page updates are GONE. Several 
doc file updates are GONE. The recently installed wiki is GONE.

3 weeks of my life down the John L Crapper just that easy. Wonderful and 
powerful is FreeBsD.

Fortunately, the damage is moderate. I had 1.7.0 saved locally, and 
uploaded it. The wiki also was locally stored, but not it's pages. I 
have worked all afternoon to rebuild it as best I could.

Oh- a wiki. Click this to see our wiki and have some fun with 
interactive web pages. It's written in python of course.
http://www.tinylist.org/cgi-bin/piki.py

Dont't do that... verify everything before doing anything serious.





-- 

end

Cheers!
         Kirk D Bailey

  +                              thunk                                +
   http://www.howlermonkey.net  +-----+        http://www.tinylist.org
   http://www.listville.net     | BOX |  http://www.sacredelectron.org
   Thou art free"-ERIS          +-----+     'Got a light?'-Promethieus
  +                              thunk                                +

Sigh.





From shalehperry@comcast.net  Tue Jul 29 22:37:46 2003
From: shalehperry@comcast.net (Sean 'Shaleh' Perry)
Date: Tue Jul 29 21:37:46 2003
Subject: [Tutor] OHMYGOD...
In-Reply-To: <3F2711FB.3070804@netzero.net>
References: <3F2711FB.3070804@netzero.net>
Message-ID: <200307291834.42287.shalehperry@comcast.net>

>
> Good thing the hosting firm does backups, even when it's my box. BAD
> news is the last one was 3 weeks ago. TinyList.1.7.3 is GONE, tarball
> ANd working installation. Several site page updates are GONE. Several
> doc file updates are GONE. The recently installed wiki is GONE.
>

what have we learned boys and girls?

1) use a revision control system
    This is very, very important.  Even if it is just a small project now, get   
    in the habit.  This lets you recover from all kind of stupid mistakes  
    (late night hacking, hacking while drunk, hacking while stupid, etc)
    Note, either do not store the main repository on the same machine or  
    replicate it several places.

    This applies to code, config files, etc.  I have a hacker friend who keeps 
    ~/ in cvs, even his e-mail.

2) keep copies of things you are working on locally

3) learn from Linus.  His famous quote is (basically) -- why should I worry 
    about backups?  
    I just put stuff on an ftp site and let the world mirror it for me.  This 
    is part of the rationale behind "release early, release often".



From mwagman@charter.net  Tue Jul 29 22:43:01 2003
From: mwagman@charter.net (Mike Wagman)
Date: Tue Jul 29 21:43:01 2003
Subject: [Tutor] OHMYGOD...AMEN
In-Reply-To: <200307291834.42287.shalehperry@comcast.net>
References: <3F2711FB.3070804@netzero.net>
 <200307291834.42287.shalehperry@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <1059529453.2452.1.camel@24-159-241-21.jvl.wi.charter.com>

about 2 weeks ago had a hard drive fail, boot after I did my first off
system backup in over a week.

What can I say I got lucky.



On Tue, 2003-07-29 at 20:34, Sean 'Shaleh' Perry wrote:
> >
> > Good thing the hosting firm does backups, even when it's my box. BAD
> > news is the last one was 3 weeks ago. TinyList.1.7.3 is GONE, tarball
> > ANd working installation. Several site page updates are GONE. Several
> > doc file updates are GONE. The recently installed wiki is GONE.
> >
> 
> what have we learned boys and girls?
> 
> 1) use a revision control system
>     This is very, very important.  Even if it is just a small project now, get   
>     in the habit.  This lets you recover from all kind of stupid mistakes  
>     (late night hacking, hacking while drunk, hacking while stupid, etc)
>     Note, either do not store the main repository on the same machine or  
>     replicate it several places.
> 
>     This applies to code, config files, etc.  I have a hacker friend who keeps 
>     ~/ in cvs, even his e-mail.
> 
> 2) keep copies of things you are working on locally
> 
> 3) learn from Linus.  His famous quote is (basically) -- why should I worry 
>     about backups?  
>     I just put stuff on an ftp site and let the world mirror it for me.  This 
>     is part of the rationale behind "release early, release often".
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Tutor maillist  -  Tutor@python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor



From tbstep@tampabay.rr.com  Tue Jul 29 23:13:00 2003
From: tbstep@tampabay.rr.com (Todd Stephens)
Date: Tue Jul 29 22:13:00 2003
Subject: [Tutor] OHMYGOD...
Message-ID: <200307292209.03791@toddloki>

On Tuesday 29 July 2003 08:31 pm, Kirk Bailey wrote:

> 3 weeks of my life down the John L Crapper just that easy. Wonderful and
> powerful is FreeBsD.

Wonderful and powerful is root in FreeBSD.

--
Todd Stephens



From tbstep@tampabay.rr.com  Tue Jul 29 23:18:02 2003
From: tbstep@tampabay.rr.com (Todd Stephens)
Date: Tue Jul 29 22:18:02 2003
Subject: [Tutor] Fwd: RELEASED Python 2.3 (final)
Message-ID: <200307292214.05782@toddloki>

,--------------- Forwarded message (begin)

 Subject: RELEASED Python 2.3 (final)
 From: Barry A. Warsaw 
 Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 20:02:26 -0400
 Newsgroup: comp.lang.python.announce

 
 On behalf of the Python development team and the Python community, I'm
 happy to announce the release of Python 2.3 (final).
 
 Nineteen months in the making, Python 2.3 represents a commitment to
 stability and improved performance, with a minimum of new language
 features.  Countless bugs and memory leaks have been fixed, many new
 and updated modules have been added, and the new type/class system
 introduced in Python 2.2 has been significantly improved.  Python 2.3
 can be up to 30% faster than Python 2.2.
 
 For more information on Python 2.3, including download links for
 various platforms, release notes, and known issues, please see:
 
     http://www.python.org/2.3
 
 Highlights of this new release include:
 
 - A brand new version of IDLE, the Python IDE, from the IDLEfork
   project at SourceForge.
 
 - Many new and improved library modules including: sets, heapq,
   datetime, textwrap, optparse, logging, bsddb, bz2, tarfile,
   ossaudiodev, itertools, platform, csv, timeit, shelve,
   DocXMLRPCServer, imaplib, imp, trace, and a new random number
   generator based on the highly acclaimed Mersenne Twister algorithm
   (with a period of 2**19937-1).  Some obsolete modules have been
   deprecated.
 
 - New and improved built-ins including:
     o enumerate(): an iterator yielding (index, item) pairs
     o sum(): a new function to sum a sequence of numbers
     o basestring: an abstract base string type for str and unicode
     o bool: a proper type with instances True and False
     o compile(), eval(), exec: fully support Unicode, and allow input
       not ending in a newline
     o range(): support for long arguments (magnitude > sys.maxint)
     o dict(): new constructor signatures
     o filter(): returns Unicode when the input is Unicode
     o int() can now return long
     o isinstance(), super(): Now support instances whose type() is not
       equal to their __class__.  super() no longer ignores data
       descriptors, except for __class__.
     o raw_input(): can now return Unicode objects
     o slice(), buffer(): are now types rather than functions
 
 - Many new doctest extensions, allowing them to be run by unittest.
 
 - Extended slices, e.g. "hello"[::-1] returns "olleh".
 
 - Universal newlines mode for reading files (converts \r, \n and \r\n
   all into \n).
 
 - Source code encoding declarations.  (PEP 263)
 
 - Import from zip files.  (PEP 273 and PEP 302)
 
 - FutureWarning issued for "unsigned" operations on ints.  (PEP 237)
 
 - Faster list.sort() is now stable.
 
 - Unicode filenames on Windows.  (PEP 227)
 
 - Karatsuba long multiplication (running time O(N**1.58) instead of
   O(N**2)).
 
 - pickle, cPickle, and copy support a new pickling protocol for more
   efficient pickling of (especially) new-style class instances.
 
 - The socket module now supports optional timeouts on all operations.
 
 - ssl support has been incorporated into the Windows installer.
 
 - Many improvements to Tkinter.
 
 Python 2.3 contains many other improvements, including the adoption of
 many Python Enhancement Proposals (PEPs).  For details see:
 
     http://www.python.org/2.3/highlights.html
 
 Enjoy.
 
 happy-50th-birthday-geddy-ly y'rs,
 -Barry
 
 Barry Warsaw
 barry@python.org
 Python 2.3 Release Manager
 (and the PythonLabs team: Tim, Fred, Jeremy, and Guido)

`--------------- Forwarded message (end)

-- 
Todd Stephens



From norvell@houseofspearman.org  Wed Jul 30 02:12:02 2003
From: norvell@houseofspearman.org (Norvell Spearman)
Date: Wed Jul 30 01:12:02 2003
Subject: [Tutor] Paranoid Question
Message-ID: <20030730051115.GA2550@houseofspearman.org>

Until Mandrake releases rpms of Python-2.3, I thought I'd try it out but
don't want it conflicting with version 2.2.2---or rather, with any
system-related scripts which depend on v2.2.2.  After downloading and
untarballing v2.3, I did the following:

    ./configure --prefix=/home/norvell/python
    make test
    make install

So as long as I run idle from /home/norvell/python/bin/idle---and as
long as I keep the #! line consistent with the prefix in any
scripts---there should be no conflicts with the old version, right?

Thanks for any answers.

-- 
Norvell Spearman


From alan.gauld@blueyonder.co.uk  Wed Jul 30 05:29:01 2003
From: alan.gauld@blueyonder.co.uk (Alan Gauld)
Date: Wed Jul 30 04:29:01 2003
Subject: [Tutor] help
References: 
Message-ID: <002501c35674$7ed96f80$6401a8c0@xp>

> of continueing writing the program and running it later. it then as
soon as
> i press enter orders me to "enter the width:"

You are trying to enter your program at the >>> prompt.

You need to use the File->New menu to create a new blank window and
type it in there. Then save it as a file ending in .py. You can
run it from within the IDE(either IDLE or Pythonwin) or by double
clicking the file in Exoplorer(assuming you are on Windows)

For IDLE check out Danny's IDLE tutor which covers this with
screenshots
Its on the IDLE pages of the Python web site.

Alan G
Author of the Learn to Program web tutor
http://www.freenetpages.co.uk/hp/alan.gauld



From RASTM2@aol.com  Wed Jul 30 09:51:02 2003
From: RASTM2@aol.com (RASTM2@aol.com)
Date: Wed Jul 30 08:51:02 2003
Subject: [Tutor] RE: james2dope's little prgm for holiday calendar
Message-ID: <189.1ce42b17.2c591920@aol.com>

In a message dated 7/29/03 9:19:34 PM Central Daylight Time 
james2dope@python.org writes:

> I am attempting to write a little program that will
>  tell you on which day a certain holiday will fall. In
>  whatever year you want. I am a beginner and was
>  wondering how I should tackle this project, or is
>  someone could point my in the right direction? Thanks
>  for any help
>  

Hi, james2dope

If I were planning such a project I would go to http://rudy.ca/doomsday.html 
for 
help and inspiratioin and links to other such the same.
It's called the Doomsday Algorithm, and it was originally created by 
Dr. John Conway, a very interesting mathemetician. 
Dr. Conway devised a way to determine what day of the week any date in history
would fall on so that you could do the calculation in your head.
I think that if you can do that calculation in your head, you won't have too 
much
trouble converting it to Python.
You will have to pay particular attention to Easter Sunday thou, as this date 
is very rarely the same on any two consecutive years.
Also, a search for "Doomsday Algorithm", "calendars, Python" and combinations 
of
such on google will prob'ly yield many free sources of completed scripts and 
info to
get you going. 

Ray St. Marie
Rastm2@aol.com


From norvell@houseofspearman.org  Wed Jul 30 10:39:09 2003
From: norvell@houseofspearman.org (Norvell Spearman)
Date: Wed Jul 30 09:39:09 2003
Subject: [Tutor] Paranoid Question
In-Reply-To: <20030730122904.GA60057@elvis.mu.org>
References: <20030730051115.GA2550@houseofspearman.org> <20030730122904.GA60057@elvis.mu.org>
Message-ID: <20030730133541.GA12566@houseofspearman.org>

On Wednesday, 2003.07.30, 05:29:04 -0700, Gus Mueller wrote:
> I can say that yes, the #! pointing to /home/norvell/python/bin/python
> should work fine- but one thing you might want to consider, is having
> this:
> #!/usr/bin/env python
> at the top of you scripts, and adjusting your $PATH environment variable
> so that /home/norvell/python/bin is ahead of /usr/local/bin and /usr/bin
> - that way when some day you get rid of your custom python install, you
> scripts will still work.

Thanks much.  That will greatly simplify things later on.

-- 
Norvell Spearman


From shalehperry@comcast.net  Wed Jul 30 10:51:02 2003
From: shalehperry@comcast.net (Sean 'Shaleh' Perry)
Date: Wed Jul 30 09:51:02 2003
Subject: [Tutor] OHMYGOD...
In-Reply-To: <200307292209.03791@toddloki>
References: <200307292209.03791@toddloki>
Message-ID: <200307300649.22966.shalehperry@comcast.net>

On Tuesday 29 July 2003 19:09, Todd Stephens wrote:
> On Tuesday 29 July 2003 08:31 pm, Kirk Bailey wrote:
> > 3 weeks of my life down the John L Crapper just that easy. Wonderful and
> > powerful is FreeBsD.
>
> Wonderful and powerful is root in FreeBSD.
>

thanks, I forgot that as my last item:

*) everytime you login as root, ask yourself if you could accomplish the task 
as a simple user with tools like su and sudo.  Root is a loaded gun waiting 
to misfire.



From marichar@csusb.edu  Wed Jul 30 14:06:02 2003
From: marichar@csusb.edu (Matt Richardson)
Date: Wed Jul 30 13:06:02 2003
Subject: [Tutor] function to ignore case
Message-ID: <1059584730.7289.127.camel@matt-richardsons-computer.local>

Can someone point me to a function that will ignore case when searching
for a string?  This is how my 17 month old must feel--knowing what you
want but not how to say it :)

Matt

-- 
Matt Richardson
Instructional Support Technician
Department of Art
CSU San Bernardino
marichar@csusb.edu




From zak@harlekin-maus.com  Wed Jul 30 14:17:01 2003
From: zak@harlekin-maus.com (Zak Arntson)
Date: Wed Jul 30 13:17:01 2003
Subject: [Tutor] function to ignore case
In-Reply-To: <1059584730.7289.127.camel@matt-richardsons-computer.local>
References: <1059584730.7289.127.camel@matt-richardsons-computer.local>
Message-ID: <1920.192.207.104.212.1059585258.squirrel@mail.harlekin-maus.com>

> Can someone point me to a function that will ignore case when searching
> for a string?  This is how my 17 month old must feel--knowing what you
> want but not how to say it :)
>
> Matt

The typical method is to convert the strings to all uppercase or
lowercase. See the lower() and upper() methods of the string type.

---
Zak Arntson
www.harlekin-maus.com - Games - Lots of 'em




From marichar@csusb.edu  Wed Jul 30 14:20:03 2003
From: marichar@csusb.edu (Matt Richardson)
Date: Wed Jul 30 13:20:03 2003
Subject: [Tutor] function to ignore case
In-Reply-To: <1920.192.207.104.212.1059585258.squirrel@mail.harlekin-maus.com>
References: <1059584730.7289.127.camel@matt-richardsons-computer.local>
 <1920.192.207.104.212.1059585258.squirrel@mail.harlekin-maus.com>
Message-ID: <1059585566.7289.131.camel@matt-richardsons-computer.local>

> The typical method is to convert the strings to all uppercase or
> lowercase. See the lower() and upper() methods of the string type.
> 
> ---
> Zak Arntson

OK, that's what I thought I would have to do.  I thought it might be
easier if there were a method that would search a file for string "Foo"
and return all instances "Foo" or "foo", rather than convert the string
and the file being searched to the same case.  That's cool, I need the
practice :)

-- 
Matt Richardson
Instructional Support Technician
Department of Art
CSU San Bernardino
marichar@csusb.edu




From reggie@merfinllc.com  Wed Jul 30 14:21:54 2003
From: reggie@merfinllc.com (Reggie Dugard)
Date: Wed Jul 30 13:21:54 2003
Subject: [Tutor] function to ignore case
In-Reply-To: <1059584730.7289.127.camel@matt-richardsons-computer.local>
References: <1059584730.7289.127.camel@matt-richardsons-computer.local>
Message-ID: <1059585597.30707.19.camel@pika>

Matt,

You don't mention what version of python you're using, but assuming
you're using a release that's not too old, there are a couple of ways to
do what you want.

You can use regular expression searching (re module) and specify the
IGNORECASE flag:

>>> import re
>>> m = re.search('multi', 'A mUltiCased string', re.IGNORECASE)
>>> bool(m)
True
>>> 

OR

You can convert both strings to a common case using the upper() or
lower() string methods, before you do the comparison:

>>> s = 'A mUltiCased string'.lower()
>>> s
'a multicased string'
>>> s.find('multi')
2
>>> 

Hope this puts you on the right track

On Wed, 2003-07-30 at 10:05, Matt Richardson wrote:
> Can someone point me to a function that will ignore case when searching
> for a string?  This is how my 17 month old must feel--knowing what you
> want but not how to say it :)
> 
> Matt
-- 
Reggie




From bgailer@alum.rpi.edu  Wed Jul 30 14:22:12 2003
From: bgailer@alum.rpi.edu (Bob Gailer)
Date: Wed Jul 30 13:22:12 2003
Subject: [Tutor] function to ignore case
In-Reply-To: <1059584730.7289.127.camel@matt-richardsons-computer.local>
Message-ID: <5.2.1.1.0.20030730111554.02b52610@66.28.54.253>

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At 10:05 AM 7/30/2003 -0700, Matt Richardson wrote:

>Can someone point me to a function that will ignore case when searching 
>for a string?

If you are using re, specify the re.IGNORECASE option

If you are using find or one of its relatives, upcase the search-in string 
and the search-for string using the str upper method.

Bob Gailer
bgailer@alum.rpi.edu
303 442 2625

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From zak@harlekin-maus.com  Wed Jul 30 14:46:02 2003
From: zak@harlekin-maus.com (Zak Arntson)
Date: Wed Jul 30 13:46:02 2003
Subject: [Tutor] Deal a Random Deck - Challenge
In-Reply-To: <20030725211030.GA11331@glacier.arctrix.com>
References: <20030718200309.0A4B9F699@xmxpita.excite.com>
 <2333.192.206.201.217.1059164050.squirrel@mail.harlekin-maus.com>
 <20030725211030.GA11331@glacier.arctrix.com>
Message-ID: <2059.192.207.104.212.1059587121.squirrel@mail.harlekin-maus.com>

> Zak Arntson wrote:
>> Here's an interesting problem a coworker (former mentor) uses when
>> hiring:
>>  * Write an algorithm to deal out a set of "cards"
>
> Straightforward to do poorly. :-)  I think all of the solutuions you
> posted are biased.  See:
>     http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCKEDFGNAA.tim_one%40email.msn.com
>
> Cheers,
>   Neil

Actually, that algorithm is subtly different. It looks like:
###
import random
def shuffle_biased(list):
    count = len(list)
    for i in range(count):
        j = random.randint(count)
        list[i], list[j] = list[j], list[i]
###

Where the proper (i.e., non-biased) solution using element swapping looks
like:
###
import random
def shuffle_unbiased(list):
    count = len(list)
    for i in range(count):
        j = random.randrange(i, count)
        list[i], list[j] = list[j], list[i]
###

The difference is in choosing j. In the shuffle_biased the value at j can
be swapped a ton of times. In the shuffle_unbiased, when the value at j is
swapped, it cannot be swapped again.

---
Zak Arntson
www.harlekin-maus.com - Games - Lots of 'em




From R. Alan Monroe" 
References: <200307292209.03791@toddloki>
 <200307300649.22966.shalehperry@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <1711235090546.20030730135540@columbus.rr.com>

Can all Windows users on a LAN/WAN cleanly run a central installation of
Python from a central server? Or is this not really practical? I think
speed would be an issue but is it supported at all?

Alan



From jeff@ccvcorp.com  Wed Jul 30 16:27:01 2003
From: jeff@ccvcorp.com (Jeff Shannon)
Date: Wed Jul 30 15:27:01 2003
Subject: [Tutor] Does Python support a centralized network install?
References: <200307292209.03791@toddloki> <200307300649.22966.shalehperry@comcast.net> <1711235090546.20030730135540@columbus.rr.com>
Message-ID: <3F281C05.6060307@ccvcorp.com>

R. Alan Monroe wrote:

>Can all Windows users on a LAN/WAN cleanly run a central installation of
>Python from a central server? Or is this not really practical? I think
>speed would be an issue but is it supported at all?
>

This could depend on what you mean by "supported" -- there's (AFAIK) no 
attempt to specifically support this, nor do I envision it to be likely. 
 However, I imagine that it might be possible to coerce it into working, 
within several restrictions.

1) You'd need to use a Python installation that had no dependency on the 
registry.  You could have a script on the central server that'd set up 
environment variables, though.

2) All users would need to be able to run the same (platform-dependent) 
.pyc files.  I'm not sure how much of a limitation this will actually be 
-- it might be that all Windows users are okay, or it might be that all 
users must be running the exact same version of Windows on similar hardware.

3) You'd be subject to notable lag times and delays.  Depending on the 
usage, the half-second delay in accessing a mapped network drive may 
cause significant problems.

On the other hand, it would definitely be possible to install Python on 
every machine, and set the import path to look for modules/applications 
that are located on a central network share.

Jeff Shannon
Technician/Programmer
Credit International




From shalehperry@comcast.net  Wed Jul 30 16:48:02 2003
From: shalehperry@comcast.net (Sean 'Shaleh' Perry)
Date: Wed Jul 30 15:48:02 2003
Subject: [Tutor] Paranoid Question
In-Reply-To: <20030730051115.GA2550@houseofspearman.org>
References: <20030730051115.GA2550@houseofspearman.org>
Message-ID: <200307301247.16640.shalehperry@comcast.net>

On Tuesday 29 July 2003 22:11, Norvell Spearman wrote:
>
> So as long as I run idle from /home/norvell/python/bin/idle---and as
> long as I keep the #! line consistent with the prefix in any
> scripts---there should be no conflicts with the old version, right?
>

indeed, you are safe.  Via Debian's package system I currently have ALL of the 
2.x series and 1.52 installed.  I can invoke any of them as pythonX.Y.  
/usr/bin/python is a symlink to the newest version.  Each one was compiled 
with the version number in the destination path so there are no conflicts.
Keep that in mind for your next install, you may want ~/norvell/python2.4.



From DORSEY_EDMUND_K@LILLY.COM  Wed Jul 30 17:20:02 2003
From: DORSEY_EDMUND_K@LILLY.COM (DORSEY_EDMUND_K@LILLY.COM)
Date: Wed Jul 30 16:20:02 2003
Subject: [Tutor] Printing to Screen
Message-ID: 

This is a multipart message in MIME format.
--=_alternative 006F98F605256D73_=
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Is there a way to print but not have it do a new line

For instance in java you have print and println in C you have to specify 
the end of line marker.

Whenever I use print in python is puts a newline. 

Do I need to use a different method for printing to the screen? 

For example...

for x in xrange(0, 5):
        print x

would print

0
1
2
3
4


What if I want it to print 

01234

Thanks!
--=_alternative 006F98F605256D73_=
Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii"



Is there a way to print but not have it do a new line



For instance in java you have print and println in C you have to specify the end of line marker.



Whenever I use print in python is puts a newline. 



Do I need to use a different method for printing to the screen? 



For example...



for x in xrange(0, 5):

        print x



would print



0

1

2

3

4





What if I want it to print 



01234



Thanks!
--=_alternative 006F98F605256D73_=--


From op73418@mail.telepac.pt  Wed Jul 30 17:40:04 2003
From: op73418@mail.telepac.pt (Rodrigues)
Date: Wed Jul 30 16:40:04 2003
Subject: [Tutor] Printing to Screen
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 

-----Original Message-----
From: tutor-admin@python.org [mailto:tutor-admin@python.org]On Behalf
Of DORSEY_EDMUND_K@LILLY.COM
Sent: quarta-feira, 30 de Julho de 2003 21:19
To: tutor@python.org
Subject: [Tutor] Printing to Screen



>Is there a way to print but not have it do a new line
>
>For instance in java you have print and println in C you have to
specify the end of line marker.
>
>Whenever I use print in python is puts a newline.
>
>Do I need to use a different method for printing to the screen?
>
>For example...
>
>for x in xrange(0, 5):
>        print x
>
>would print
>
>0
>1
>2
>3
>4
>
>
>What if I want it to print
>
>01234
>

Putting a comma next to what you want to print prevents Python from
adding a newline, e.g.

>>> for i in xrange(5):
... 	print i,
...
0 1 2 3 4

But it does add a space. The best may be to concatenate every string
you want to print, e.g.:

>>> to_print = []
>>> for i in xrange(5):
... 	to_print.append(i)
...
>>> string_to_print = "".join([str(i) for i in to_print])
>>> print string_to_print
01234

It's left as an exercise figuring out the whys and the whats of the
code. If you have any doubts just holler.

With my best regards,
G. Rodrigues



From bgailer@alum.rpi.edu  Wed Jul 30 17:45:01 2003
From: bgailer@alum.rpi.edu (Bob Gailer)
Date: Wed Jul 30 16:45:01 2003
Subject: [Tutor] Printing to Screen
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <5.2.1.1.0.20030730143426.02c45468@66.28.54.253>

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At 03:18 PM 7/30/2003 -0500, DORSEY_EDMUND_K@LILLY.COM wrote:

>Is there a way to print but not have it do a new line
>For instance in java you have print and println in C you have to specify 
>the end of line marker.
>Whenever I use print in python is puts a newline.
>Do I need to use a different method for printing to the screen?
>For example...
>
>for x in xrange(0, 5):
>         print x
>
>would print
>
>0
>1
>2
>3
>4
>
>What if I want it to print
>
>01234

There is no direct answer. If you say
     print x,
you will get
0 1 2 3 4
If you print a backspace before each number
     print '\x08%x' % i,
you will get (the desired)
01234
unless you are in pythonwin which prints a graphic interpretation of 
control characters.

The better approach is to collect the desired output in a string, then 
print the string
result = ''
for x in xrange(0, 5):
     result += str(x)
print x

Or create, then join, a list:
print ''.join([str(x) for x in xrange(0,5)])

Bob Gailer
bgailer@alum.rpi.edu
303 442 2625


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At 03:18 PM 7/30/2003 -0500, DORSEY_EDMUND_K@LILLY.COM wrote:



Is there a way to
print but not have it do a new line 

For instance in java you have print and println in C you
have to specify the end of line marker. 

Whenever I use print in python is puts a newline.


Do I need to use a different method for printing to the
screen? 

For example... 


for x in xrange(0, 5): 

        print x



would print 


0 

1 

2 

3 

4 


What if I want it to print 


01234 


There is no direct answer. If you say 

    print x, 

you will get

0 1 2 3 4

If you print a backspace before each number

    print '\x08%x' % i,

you will get (the desired)

01234

unless you are in pythonwin which prints a graphic interpretation of control characters.


The better approach is to collect the desired output in a string, then print the string

result = ''

for x in xrange(0, 5): 

    result += str(x)

print x 


Or create, then join, a list:

print ''.join([str(x) for x in xrange(0,5)])



Bob Gailer

bgailer@alum.rpi.edu

303 442 2625





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From jeff@ccvcorp.com  Wed Jul 30 17:50:03 2003
From: jeff@ccvcorp.com (Jeff Shannon)
Date: Wed Jul 30 16:50:03 2003
Subject: [Tutor] Printing to Screen
References: 
Message-ID: <3F282F90.1070800@ccvcorp.com>

DORSEY_EDMUND_K@LILLY.COM wrote:

>
> Is there a way to print but not have it do a new line
>
> For instance in java you have print and println in C you have to 
> specify the end of line marker.
>
> Whenever I use print in python is puts a newline. 


If you end your print statement with a comma, then you'll (probably) be 
given a space instead of a newline -- I say probably because if the line 
already ends in whitespace, print will not add more.  This feature is 
called "softspace", and it's intended to help print be a quick & easy 
way to display simple things -- but print is not designed to give you 
complete control over your output.

If you need finer control over the output than print gives you, then you 
can import sys and use sys.stdout.write() -- sys.stdout is a file-like 
object that represents your current standard output, and print 
internally writes to sys.stdout.  You can use most file methods on 
sys.stdout (though not seek-related ones).  Keep in mind that, because 
sys.stdout is a buffered I/O device, you may need to call 
sys.stdout.flush() to actually have written data appear on the screen.

Jeff Shannon
Technician/Programmer
Credit International




From bgailer@alum.rpi.edu  Wed Jul 30 17:53:01 2003
From: bgailer@alum.rpi.edu (Bob Gailer)
Date: Wed Jul 30 16:53:01 2003
Subject: [Tutor] Printing to Screen
Message-ID: <5.2.1.1.0.20030730144509.02c3fbd0@66.28.54.253>

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At 03:18 PM 7/30/2003 -0500, DORSEY_EDMUND_K@LILLY.COM wrote:

>Is there a way to print but not have it do a new line
>For instance in java you have print and println in C you have to specify 
>the end of line marker.
>Whenever I use print in python is puts a newline.
>Do I need to use a different method for printing to the screen?
>For example...
>
>for x in xrange(0, 5):
>         print x
>
>would print
>
>0
>1
>2
>3
>4
>
>What if I want it to print
>
>01234

I spoke too soon.
import sys
for x in xrange(0, 5):
     sys.stdout.write(str(x))
sys.stdout.write('\n') # newline

Bob Gailer
bgailer@alum.rpi.edu
303 442 2625


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At 03:18 PM 7/30/2003 -0500, DORSEY_EDMUND_K@LILLY.COM wrote:



Is there a way to
print but not have it do a new line 

For instance in java you have print and println in C you
have to specify the end of line marker. 

Whenever I use print in python is puts a newline.


Do I need to use a different method for printing to the
screen? 

For example... 


for x in xrange(0, 5): 

        print x



would print 


0 

1 

2 

3 

4 


What if I want it to print 


01234 


I spoke too soon.

import sys

for x in xrange(0, 5): 

    sys.stdout.write(str(x))

sys.stdout.write('\n') # newline



Bob Gailer

bgailer@alum.rpi.edu

303 442 2625





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Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
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From dyoo@hkn.eecs.berkeley.edu  Wed Jul 30 18:44:43 2003
From: dyoo@hkn.eecs.berkeley.edu (Danny Yoo)
Date: Wed Jul 30 17:44:43 2003
Subject: [Tutor] Printing to Screen
In-Reply-To: <3F282F90.1070800@ccvcorp.com>
Message-ID: 


On Wed, 30 Jul 2003, Jeff Shannon wrote:

> DORSEY_EDMUND_K@LILLY.COM wrote:
>
> >
> > Is there a way to print but not have it do a new line
> >
> > For instance in java you have print and println in C you have to
> > specify the end of line marker.
>
> If you need finer control over the output than print gives you, then you
> can import sys and use sys.stdout.write() -- sys.stdout is a file-like
> object that represents your current standard output, and print
> internally writes to sys.stdout.


Hi Dorsey,


In fact, if you use sys.stdout.write(), it'll feel almost exactly like C's
printf() function.


For example, the following C code:

/*** C code **/
int x = 20;
printf("%d squared is equals to: %d\n", x, x*x);
/*************/



has a direct translation in Python:

### Python code ###
x = 20
sys.stdout.write("%d square is equal to: %d\n" % (x, x*x))
###


So if you need printf()-like functionality, use the write() method of the
stdout file object.  You can use the String Formatting operations to
interpolate variable values into your string.


If you find yourself doing a lot of sys.stdout.write()'s, you can simplify
your typing by using a helper variable:

###
>>> import sys
>>> sys.stdout.write

>>> write = sys.stdout.write
>>> write

>>> write("hello world\n\nThis is a test!\n")
hello world

This is a test!
###


Python allows us to pull any object's method and make it look like a
simple function, and the example above shows a good use of it.



Good luck!



From norvell@houseofspearman.org  Wed Jul 30 18:56:02 2003
From: norvell@houseofspearman.org (Norvell Spearman)
Date: Wed Jul 30 17:56:02 2003
Subject: [Tutor] Paranoid Question
In-Reply-To: <200307301247.16640.shalehperry@comcast.net>
References: <20030730051115.GA2550@houseofspearman.org> <200307301247.16640.shalehperry@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <20030730215518.GA12742@houseofspearman.org>

On Wednesday, 2003.07.30, 12:47:16 -0700, Sean 'Shaleh' Perry wrote:
> indeed, you are safe.  Via Debian's package system I currently have ALL of the 
> 2.x series and 1.52 installed.  I can invoke any of them as pythonX.Y.  
> /usr/bin/python is a symlink to the newest version.  Each one was compiled 
> with the version number in the destination path so there are no conflicts.
> Keep that in mind for your next install, you may want ~/norvell/python2.4.

My system has two pythons in /usr/bin as well.  Thanks for the tip.

-- 
Norvell Spearman


From logiplex@qwest.net  Wed Jul 30 19:24:03 2003
From: logiplex@qwest.net (Cliff Wells)
Date: Wed Jul 30 18:24:03 2003
Subject: [Tutor] Does Python support a centralized network install?
In-Reply-To: <3F281C05.6060307@ccvcorp.com>
References: <200307292209.03791@toddloki>
 <200307300649.22966.shalehperry@comcast.net>
 <1711235090546.20030730135540@columbus.rr.com>
 <3F281C05.6060307@ccvcorp.com>
Message-ID: <1059603756.8920.4249.camel@software1.logiplex.internal>

On Wed, 2003-07-30 at 12:27, Jeff Shannon wrote:
> R. Alan Monroe wrote:
> 
> >Can all Windows users on a LAN/WAN cleanly run a central installation of
> >Python from a central server? Or is this not really practical? I think
> >speed would be an issue but is it supported at all?
> >
> 
> This could depend on what you mean by "supported" -- there's (AFAIK) no 
> attempt to specifically support this, nor do I envision it to be likely. 
>  However, I imagine that it might be possible to coerce it into working, 
> within several restrictions.
> 
> 1) You'd need to use a Python installation that had no dependency on the 
> registry.  You could have a script on the central server that'd set up 
> environment variables, though.

Actually, it's possible to simply insert the proper registry entries
using a script.  Windows allows you to put registry entries in a .reg
file and simply run it.  We did this a couple of years ago at a job I
had.  I haven't used Windows since leaving that job so I'm afraid I
don't recall the values.  

> 2) All users would need to be able to run the same (platform-dependent) 
> .pyc files.  I'm not sure how much of a limitation this will actually be 
> -- it might be that all Windows users are okay, or it might be that all 
> users must be running the exact same version of Windows on similar hardware.

We had Windows NT 4.0 on all PC's but I doubt it matters much.  The
biggest problem was generation of .pyc files.  This has to be done by
hand by someone with proper permissions on the server.  There was some
discussion about adding support for specifying where .pyc files go, but
I don't know if it made it in for 2.3.

> 3) You'd be subject to notable lag times and delays.  Depending on the 
> usage, the half-second delay in accessing a mapped network drive may 
> cause significant problems.

We didn't notice any slowdown.  But we had fairly expensive network
equipment and fast servers.

> On the other hand, it would definitely be possible to install Python on 
> every machine, and set the import path to look for modules/applications 
> that are located on a central network share.

The main problem with this is keeping the PC's up-to-date (if there are
very many of them).  Especially since things like migrating to a new
version of Python require reinstalling third party modules.

Regards,

-- 
Cliff Wells, Software Engineer
Logiplex Corporation (www.logiplex.net)
(503) 978-6726  (800) 735-0555



From glingl@aon.at  Wed Jul 30 19:50:09 2003
From: glingl@aon.at (Gregor Lingl)
Date: Wed Jul 30 18:50:09 2003
Subject: [Tutor] Deal a Random Deck - Good news
References: <20030718200309.0A4B9F699@xmxpita.excite.com>        <2333.192.206.201.217.1059164050.squirrel@mail.harlekin-maus.com>        <20030725211030.GA11331@glacier.arctrix.com> <2059.192.207.104.212.1059587121.squirrel@mail.harlekin-maus.com>
Message-ID: <3F284C02.903@aon.at>

Zak Arntson schrieb:

>>Zak Arntson wrote:
>>    
>>
>>>Here's an interesting problem a coworker (former mentor) uses when
>>>hiring:
>>> * Write an algorithm to deal out a set of "cards"
>>>      
>>>
>>Straightforward to do poorly. :-)  I think all of the solutuions you
>>posted are biased.  See:
>>    http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCKEDFGNAA.tim_one%40email.msn.com
>>
>>Cheers,
>>  Neil
>>    
>>
>
>Actually, that algorithm is subtly different. It looks like:
>###
>import random
>def shuffle_biased(list):
>    count = len(list)
>    for i in range(count):
>        j = random.randint(count)
>        list[i], list[j] = list[j], list[i]
>###
>
>Where the proper (i.e., non-biased) solution using element swapping looks
>like:
>###
>import random
>def shuffle_unbiased(list):
>    count = len(list)
>    for i in range(count):
>        j = random.randrange(i, count)
>        list[i], list[j] = list[j], list[i]
>###
>  
>

Actually shuflle from module random is defined similarly, but using 
random.random(),
i.e. generating random reals, as this is approximately twice as fast as 
creating random
integers. (I think this is the reason, why deck3 is so much faster than 
deck1 or deck2,
but slower than deck4 or deck5 - because they don't need to sort.

Here the code for shuffle from module random:

    def shuffle(self, x, random=None, int=int):
        """x, random=random.random -> shuffle list x in place; return None.

        Optional arg random is a 0-argument function returning a random
        float in [0.0, 1.0); by default, the standard random.random.

        Note that for even rather small len(x), the total number of
        permutations of x is larger than the period of most random number
        generators; this implies that "most" permutations of a long
        sequence can never be generated.
        """

        if random is None:
            random = self.random
        for i in xrange(len(x)-1, 0, -1):
            # pick an element in x[:i+1] with which to exchange x[i]
            j = int(random() * (i+1))
            x[i], x[j] = x[j], x[i]

Wow! The docstring explains, that there is another reason for shuffle
to be biased, which is independent of shuffle's algorithm but depends
solely on the random generator used.

Up to Python 2.2 a Wichmann-Hill generator with period
6,953,607,871,644 was used. This is smaller than 16! = 20922789888000.
This means, that Python2.2's shuffle cannot generate all permutations of
sequences with more than 15 Elements.And already for 16 Elements only a 
third of all
possible permutations is generated.

This was changed with Python 2.3 using a Mersenne Twister generator
with period 2**19937-1 (which is an integer with 6002 digits).
Since 2080! < 2**19937-1 < 2081!, Python 2.3's shuffle should be fairly
unbiased for sequences with length nearly up to 2080.

And the other good news:

Python 2.3's random generator is more than 20% faster than the old one.

Regards,
Gregor
   

>The difference is in choosing j. In the shuffle_biased the value at j can
>be swapped a ton of times. In the shuffle_unbiased, when the value at j is
>swapped, it cannot be swapped again.
>
>---
>Zak Arntson
>www.harlekin-maus.com - Games - Lots of 'em
>
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>Tutor maillist  -  Tutor@python.org
>http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor
>
>
>  
>






From klappnase@freenet.de  Wed Jul 30 21:13:02 2003
From: klappnase@freenet.de (klappnase)
Date: Wed Jul 30 20:13:02 2003
Subject: [Tutor] How to get messages from stderr
Message-ID: <20030731021253.404a731a.klappnase@freenet.de>

Hello everyone,

I try to get progress messages from a shell command on the fly while the process is still running
for use in a progress window. The problem is that most of these messages are printed to stderr.
Now I tried something like:

def runcmd(self):
	self.pp = popen2.Popen4(cmd)
	self.ppp = self.pp.fromchild
	self.frame.after(100, self.getprogress)

def getprogress(self):
	self.progress = self.ppp.read()
	self.frame.after(100, self.getprogress)

but I found that I only got any output after the child process had finished.
It seems to work as long as I only get the output from stdout with Popen3, but I need the stderr messages.
Does anyone know a way to get the output from stderr while the child process is still running?
Any help would be very appreciated.

Thanks

Michael


From Janssen@rz.uni-frankfurt.de  Wed Jul 30 22:55:03 2003
From: Janssen@rz.uni-frankfurt.de (Michael Janssen)
Date: Wed Jul 30 21:55:03 2003
Subject: [Tutor] How to get messages from stderr
In-Reply-To: <20030731021253.404a731a.klappnase@freenet.de>
Message-ID: 

On Thu, 31 Jul 2003, klappnase wrote:

> def runcmd(self):
> 	self.pp = popen2.Popen4(cmd)
> 	self.ppp = self.pp.fromchild
> 	self.frame.after(100, self.getprogress)
>
> def getprogress(self):
> 	self.progress = self.ppp.read()
> 	self.frame.after(100, self.getprogress)
>
> but I found that I only got any output after the child process had
> finished. It seems to work as long as I only get the output from
> stdout with Popen3, but I need the stderr messages. Does anyone know a
> way to get the output from stderr while the child process is still
> running? Any help would be very appreciated.

can't remember those popenX thing but perhaps you can redirect the output
to stdout (depends on what OS you use and if you don't need to keep the
streams seperate)?

os.popen("[command] 2>&1") is Linux-bash Syntax to redirect stderr to
stdout.

regards
Michael




From klappnase@freenet.de  Thu Jul 31 06:14:02 2003
From: klappnase@freenet.de (klappnase)
Date: Thu Jul 31 05:14:02 2003
Subject: [Tutor] How to get messages from stderr
In-Reply-To: 
References: <20030731021253.404a731a.klappnase@freenet.de>
 
Message-ID: <20030731111411.2285a507.klappnase@freenet.de>

On Thu, 31 Jul 2003 03:54:25 +0200 (CST)
Michael Janssen  wrote:

> On Thu, 31 Jul 2003, klappnase wrote:
> 
> > def runcmd(self):
> > 	self.pp = popen2.Popen4(cmd)
> > 	self.ppp = self.pp.fromchild
> > 	self.frame.after(100, self.getprogress)
> >
> > def getprogress(self):
> > 	self.progress = self.ppp.read()
> > 	self.frame.after(100, self.getprogress)
> >
> > but I found that I only got any output after the child process had
> > finished. It seems to work as long as I only get the output from
> > stdout with Popen3, but I need the stderr messages. Does anyone know a
> > way to get the output from stderr while the child process is still
> > running? Any help would be very appreciated.
> 
> can't remember those popenX thing but perhaps you can redirect the output
> to stdout (depends on what OS you use and if you don't need to keep the
> streams seperate)?
> 
> os.popen("[command] 2>&1") is Linux-bash Syntax to redirect stderr to
> stdout.
> 
> regards
> Michael
> 

Thank you so much for the feedback.
Sorry, I forgot to mention that it is a linux box.
Unfortunately this does not seem to solve my problem, the messages only appear if "cmd" has finished.
The problem seems to be that the file object containing the data from stderr should be closed first
before I can read the data, but how is it possible then that further writing is done there?
Does anyone know help?

Thanks in advance

Michael



From qsc@icon.co.za  Thu Jul 31 06:43:02 2003
From: qsc@icon.co.za (Quentin)
Date: Thu Jul 31 05:43:02 2003
Subject: [Tutor] OT: Save all HTML pages
Message-ID: <3F28E46E.8060103@icon.co.za>

Hi
Sorry for the OT, but it is a problem I found with the Python online docs.
How can I download and/or save all the webpages that is linked from a 
main index page without having to open them all first?
I would like to read them ofline.
Using Mozilla 1.3b.

Thanks
Quentin



From op73418@mail.telepac.pt  Thu Jul 31 06:55:02 2003
From: op73418@mail.telepac.pt (Rodrigues)
Date: Thu Jul 31 05:55:02 2003
Subject: [Tutor] OT: Save all HTML pages
In-Reply-To: <3F28E46E.8060103@icon.co.za>
Message-ID: 


> -----Original Message-----
> From: tutor-admin@python.org
> [mailto:tutor-admin@python.org]On Behalf Of
> Quentin
>
> Hi
> Sorry for the OT, but it is a problem I found with the
> Python online docs.
> How can I download and/or save all the webpages that is
> linked from a
> main index page without having to open them all first?
> I would like to read them ofline.
> Using Mozilla 1.3b.

Download the Python installer and install it in your computer. Docs
are included.

With my best regards,
G. Rodrigues



From qsc@icon.co.za  Thu Jul 31 07:00:02 2003
From: qsc@icon.co.za (Quentin)
Date: Thu Jul 31 06:00:02 2003
Subject: [Tutor] OT: Save all HTML pages
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <3F28E873.1040601@icon.co.za>

>>> Sorry for the OT, but it is a problem I found with the
>>> Python online docs.

> Download the Python installer and install it in your computer. Docs
> are included.
Let me rephrase that: All the documents that is related with Python, 
such as online tutorials and Python add-ons.

Thanks
Quentin



From carroll@tjc.com  Thu Jul 31 12:03:27 2003
From: carroll@tjc.com (Terry Carroll)
Date: Thu Jul 31 11:03:27 2003
Subject: [Tutor] XML documentation
In-Reply-To: <359178A8-BB22-11D7-B454-000393B10A78@mac.com>
Message-ID: 

On Sun, 20 Jul 2003 cybersamurai@mac.com wrote:

> I need know here I can find documentation about XML and Python. I know 
> How read and write a new XML file but I don't know edit.

I really liked the O'Reilly book:

 http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0596001282
 http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/pythonxml/

-- 
Terry Carroll        |   "I say to you that the VCR is to the American
Santa Clara, CA      |   film producer and the American public as the 
carroll@tjc.com      |   Boston strangler is to the woman home alone."  
                     |       Jack Valenti, MPAA President
Modell delendus est  |       Testimony before Congress, 1982




From carroll@tjc.com  Thu Jul 31 12:08:14 2003
From: carroll@tjc.com (Terry Carroll)
Date: Thu Jul 31 11:08:14 2003
Subject: [Tutor] Looking for some utilities
In-Reply-To: <1059139896.2433.5.camel@24-159-241-21.jvl.wi.charter.com>
Message-ID: 

On 25 Jul 2003, Mike Wagman wrote:

> I am having to move my development environment  for a program I am
> working on from linux to windows, and I am looking for some utilities to
> run on windows....
> 
> FTP software. Nothing fancy but free with the ability to remember a log
> on.

I really like NCFTP.  It's mostly line oriented, but works very well.

http://www.ncftpd.com

> A 2 windows configurable file manager, similar to worker, or gentoo, or
> if you remember the old amiga DirWorks,Dir Opus, Disk master.

You know, I never realized how much I missed that from my Amiga days.  I 
use two Explorer windows, but it's not the same.

-- 
Terry Carroll        |   "I say to you that the VCR is to the American
Santa Clara, CA      |   film producer and the American public as the 
carroll@tjc.com      |   Boston strangler is to the woman home alone."  
                     |       Jack Valenti, MPAA President
Modell delendus est  |       Testimony before Congress, 1982



From tpc@csua.berkeley.edu  Thu Jul 31 12:18:03 2003
From: tpc@csua.berkeley.edu (tpc@csua.berkeley.edu)
Date: Thu Jul 31 11:18:03 2003
Subject: [Tutor] OT: Save all HTML pages
In-Reply-To: <3F28E873.1040601@icon.co.za>
Message-ID: <20030731080120.G58764-100000@localhost.name>

are you on a Unix system ?  if so you may want to use wget.  I do not know
what to use if you are on a Windows system, except maybe installing a Unix
shell emulator such as CygWin (cygwin.com)

On Thu, 31 Jul 2003, Quentin wrote:

>
> >>> Sorry for the OT, but it is a problem I found with the
> >>> Python online docs.
>
> > Download the Python installer and install it in your computer. Docs
> > are included.
> Let me rephrase that: All the documents that is related with Python,
> such as online tutorials and Python add-ons.
>
> Thanks
> Quentin
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Tutor maillist  -  Tutor@python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor
>



From jeff@ccvcorp.com  Thu Jul 31 14:05:52 2003
From: jeff@ccvcorp.com (Jeff Shannon)
Date: Thu Jul 31 13:05:52 2003
Subject: [Tutor] How to get messages from stderr
References: <20030731021253.404a731a.klappnase@freenet.de>	 <20030731111411.2285a507.klappnase@freenet.de>
Message-ID: <3F294C59.5070803@ccvcorp.com>

klappnase wrote:

>>>def getprogress(self):
>>>	self.progress = self.ppp.read()
>>>	self.frame.after(100, self.getprogress)
>>>
>>>but I found that I only got any output after the child process had
>>>finished. It seems to work as long as I only get the output from
>>>stdout with Popen3, but I need the stderr messages. Does anyone know a
>>>way to get the output from stderr while the child process is still
>>>running? Any help would be very appreciated.
>>>

I believe that your problem may be with using read(), with no arguments. 
 By default, read() will return everything up to end-of-file.  For a 
pipe, EOF doesn't occur until the pipe is closed.  Therefore, 
self.ppp.read() will block until the pipe is closed, i.e. the command 
stops running.

Try calling read() with an argument multiple times, and assembling the 
results yourself.  In one of my own programs, I needed to supply input 
to an external command, and determined that that command would output 
exactly 18 bytes of data before waiting for input, so I used this code:

    def _runcommand(self, command):
        print command
        i, o = os.popen4(command)
        print o.read(18)
        i.write(self.paramstring)
        i.write('\n')
        i.flush()
        result = o.readlines()
        return result

I couldn't just use read() or readlines(), because those calls would 
hang waiting for EOF or EOL respectively, neither of which would happen 
at the point I was interested in.

Jeff Shannon
Technician/Programmer
Credit International




From norvell@houseofspearman.org  Thu Jul 31 14:20:03 2003
From: norvell@houseofspearman.org (Norvell Spearman)
Date: Thu Jul 31 13:20:03 2003
Subject: [Tutor] else clauses on loops
Message-ID: <20030731135426.GA11492@houseofspearman.org>

I'm working through the Tutorial yet again (Release 2.3 this time) and
this time got stuck on section 4.4, ``break and continue Statements, and
else Clauses on Loops.''  Here's the code from that section:

    >>> for n in range(2, 10):
    ...      for x in range(2, n):
    ...          if n % x == 0:
    ...             print n, 'equals', x, '*', n/x
    ...             break
    ...      else:
    ...           # loop fell through without finding a factor
    ...           print n, 'is a prime number'
    ...
    2 is a prime number
    3 is a prime number
    4 equals 2 * 2
    5 is a prime number
    6 equals 2 * 3
    7 is a prime number
    8 equals 2 * 4
    9 equals 3 * 3

With which for loop is the else associated?  Because of the indentation
level I'd think it belongs to the outer for loop, but the else gets
executed when the loop is not terminated by a break or continue.  In
this case the break belongs to the inner for (right?) so how does else
know that it's supposed to execute?

-- 
Norvell Spearman


From jeff@ccvcorp.com  Thu Jul 31 14:44:01 2003
From: jeff@ccvcorp.com (Jeff Shannon)
Date: Thu Jul 31 13:44:01 2003
Subject: [Tutor] else clauses on loops
References: <20030731135426.GA11492@houseofspearman.org>
Message-ID: <3F29556B.8000702@ccvcorp.com>

Norvell Spearman wrote:

>I'm working through the Tutorial yet again (Release 2.3 this time) and
>this time got stuck on section 4.4, ``break and continue Statements, and
>else Clauses on Loops.''  Here's the code from that section:
>
>    >>> for n in range(2, 10):
>    ...      for x in range(2, n):
>    ...          if n % x == 0:
>    ...             print n, 'equals', x, '*', n/x
>    ...             break
>    ...      else:
>    ...           # loop fell through without finding a factor
>    ...           print n, 'is a prime number'
>    ...
>
>With which for loop is the else associated?  Because of the indentation
>level I'd think it belongs to the outer for loop, but the else gets
>executed when the loop is not terminated by a break or continue.  In
>this case the break belongs to the inner for (right?) so how does else
>know that it's supposed to execute?
>

It uses the same format as an if/else -- the else should be at the same 
indentation level as the condition statement that it applies to.  With this:

if test1():
    if test2():
        foo()
    else:
        bar()

it's expected that the else applies to the test2() condition, because 
they are at the same indentation level.  If the else were to apply to 
the test1() condition, it'd be indented like so:

if test1():
    if test2():
        foo()
else:
    bar()

The same logic holds true when it's for statements instead of if 
statements -- any time you have statements that are a syntactic group, 
they should be at the same indentation level.

Jeff Shannon
Technician/Programmer
Credit International




From norvell@houseofspearman.org  Thu Jul 31 14:49:01 2003
From: norvell@houseofspearman.org (Norvell Spearman)
Date: Thu Jul 31 13:49:01 2003
Subject: [Tutor] else clauses on loops
In-Reply-To: <3F29556B.8000702@ccvcorp.com>
References: <20030731135426.GA11492@houseofspearman.org> <3F29556B.8000702@ccvcorp.com>
Message-ID: <20030731174805.GA13723@houseofspearman.org>

On Thursday, 2003.07.31, 10:44:11 -0700, Jeff Shannon wrote:
> It uses the same format as an if/else -- the else should be at the same 
> indentation level as the condition statement that it applies to.

Thanks.  As soon as you mentioned the if/else it clicked for me.

-- 
Norvell Spearman


From ebernert@crpud.net  Thu Jul 31 15:41:53 2003
From: ebernert@crpud.net (Elizabeth Bernert)
Date: Thu Jul 31 14:41:53 2003
Subject: [Tutor] Unsure why won't work
Message-ID: <3F2962A4.8030306@crpud.net>

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
--------------060002050206020906060601
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

I changed the top line to the line the works in my comp to get programs 
working, (i.e. #!c:/Python22/python.exe) but that did not work..  Does 
anyone have any ideas?

--------------060002050206020906060601
Content-Type: text/plain;
 name="tail.py"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Disposition: inline;
 filename="tail.py"

#!usr/bin/python
#
# Usage: python tail.py [file-name]
#
# Continuously look for new data in a file and write it to terminal.  If
# the file name is omitted, standard input is used
#

import sys, time

# Position the file near the end, unless it's pretty small already
def findEof(input):
    import os
    size = os.fstat(input.fileno())[6]
    if (size > 500):
        # seek to 400 bytes from end of file
        print 'seeking back'
        input.seek(-500, 2)

# Infinitely loop looking for new data in file
def tail(input):
    while 1:
        line = input.readline()
        if line == '':
            # empty - wait and try again
            time.sleep(2)
        else:
            # trailing comma to supress newlines (which line already has)
            print line,


# actually begin the code - look for a file name
if len(sys.argv) > 1:
    input = open(sys.argv[1])
else:
    input = sys.stdin

findEof(input)
tail(input)



--------------060002050206020906060601--




From jeff@ccvcorp.com  Thu Jul 31 15:52:26 2003
From: jeff@ccvcorp.com (Jeff Shannon)
Date: Thu Jul 31 14:52:26 2003
Subject: [Tutor] Unsure why won't work
References: <3F2962A4.8030306@crpud.net>
Message-ID: <3F296552.5080107@ccvcorp.com>

Elizabeth Bernert wrote:

> I changed the top line to the line the works in my comp to get 
> programs working, (i.e. #!c:/Python22/python.exe) but that did not 
> work..  Does anyone have any ideas? 


What *precisely* are you doing that's not working?

If you're running Windows (as I presume you are from the above comment), 
then the shebang line doesn't matter -- that's a unix convention, and to 
Windows it looks like an ordinary comment line.  

Under Win9x, you must use the python command to run a script -- i.e., $ 
python tail.py somefile.txt

Under Win2k/XP, it's possible to have Explorer recognize files with a 
.py extension as being executable and associated with the python 
interpreter.  I believe that the installer (at least for the ActiveState 
distribution) does this automatically.  In that case, you'd only need to 
type $ tail somefile.txt (provided, of course, that tail.py is located 
on your $PATH).

Jeff Shannon
Technician/Programmer
Credit International




From patterner@rocketmail.com  Thu Jul 31 16:41:02 2003
From: patterner@rocketmail.com (Chris Readle)
Date: Thu Jul 31 15:41:02 2003
Subject: [Tutor] Unsure why won't work
In-Reply-To: <3F296552.5080107@ccvcorp.com>
Message-ID: <20030731194021.14533.qmail@web40603.mail.yahoo.com>

You also need to make sure that python.exe in in your path.  For Win2k and
XP you can do this by right-clicking My Computer and left-clicking
Properties.  Then look under the Advanced tab, and clich the Environment
variables button.  In the System Variables listing, look for Path, double
click to edit.  Add ; c:\python22; to the end of the listing.

chris

--- Jeff Shannon  wrote:
> Elizabeth Bernert wrote:
> 
> > I changed the top line to the line the works in my comp to get 
> > programs working, (i.e. #!c:/Python22/python.exe) but that did not 
> > work..  Does anyone have any ideas? 
> 
> 
> What *precisely* are you doing that's not working?
> 
> If you're running Windows (as I presume you are from the above comment),
> 
> then the shebang line doesn't matter -- that's a unix convention, and to
> 
> Windows it looks like an ordinary comment line.  
> 
> Under Win9x, you must use the python command to run a script -- i.e., $ 
> python tail.py somefile.txt
> 
> Under Win2k/XP, it's possible to have Explorer recognize files with a 
> .py extension as being executable and associated with the python 
> interpreter.  I believe that the installer (at least for the ActiveState
> 
> distribution) does this automatically.  In that case, you'd only need to
> 
> type $ tail somefile.txt (provided, of course, that tail.py is located 
> on your $PATH).
> 
> Jeff Shannon
> Technician/Programmer
> Credit International
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Tutor maillist  -  Tutor@python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor


__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software
http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com


From patterner@rocketmail.com  Thu Jul 31 16:42:09 2003
From: patterner@rocketmail.com (Chris Readle)
Date: Thu Jul 31 15:42:09 2003
Subject: [Tutor] Unsure why won't work
In-Reply-To: <3F296552.5080107@ccvcorp.com>
Message-ID: <20030731194036.70130.qmail@web40613.mail.yahoo.com>

You also need to make sure that python.exe in in your path.  For Win2k and
XP you can do this by right-clicking My Computer and left-clicking
Properties.  Then look under the Advanced tab, and clich the Environment
variables button.  In the System Variables listing, look for Path, double
click to edit.  Add ; c:\python22; to the end of the listing.

chris

--- Jeff Shannon  wrote:
> Elizabeth Bernert wrote:
> 
> > I changed the top line to the line the works in my comp to get 
> > programs working, (i.e. #!c:/Python22/python.exe) but that did not 
> > work..  Does anyone have any ideas? 
> 
> 
> What *precisely* are you doing that's not working?
> 
> If you're running Windows (as I presume you are from the above comment),
> 
> then the shebang line doesn't matter -- that's a unix convention, and to
> 
> Windows it looks like an ordinary comment line.  
> 
> Under Win9x, you must use the python command to run a script -- i.e., $ 
> python tail.py somefile.txt
> 
> Under Win2k/XP, it's possible to have Explorer recognize files with a 
> .py extension as being executable and associated with the python 
> interpreter.  I believe that the installer (at least for the ActiveState
> 
> distribution) does this automatically.  In that case, you'd only need to
> 
> type $ tail somefile.txt (provided, of course, that tail.py is located 
> on your $PATH).
> 
> Jeff Shannon
> Technician/Programmer
> Credit International
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Tutor maillist  -  Tutor@python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor


__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software
http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com


From jeff@ccvcorp.com  Thu Jul 31 17:03:01 2003
From: jeff@ccvcorp.com (Jeff Shannon)
Date: Thu Jul 31 16:03:01 2003
Subject: [Tutor] Unsure why won't work
References: <3F2962A4.8030306@crpud.net> <3F296552.5080107@ccvcorp.com> <3F2970CE.7090300@crpud.net>
Message-ID: <3F2975ED.6040104@ccvcorp.com>

Elizabeth Bernert wrote:

> Sorry, I forgot to mention that I am attemping to run tail.py through 
> Apache on Win XP. 


Ah, a fairly significant little detail, there. ;)  I really haven't 
played around with CGI or Apache, so I don't know how much I can help 
here.  I'm forwarding this back to the list so that others who know more 
about this sort of thing may be able to offer suggestions.  I do have a 
few thoughts, however...

>   The only way I know to get programtitle.py programs working is to 
> open IE (running IE 6.0.*) and type 
> http://localhost:8080/cgi-bin/programtitle.py in the address bar.  
> Attempting to run tail.py by the command line gives me a syntax error, 
> where trying in IE gives me a HTTP 500 and the error log said that the 
> file was UTL (unable to locate) when I used your example on my programs. 


Well, if you're getting a syntax error at the command line, then even if 
Apache *could* locate the file it wouldn't work.  Post a complete 
traceback of the syntax error, and we can probably get that sorted out 
fairly quickly.

At the same time, this program is not designed to work with CGI.  You 
typically cannot just dump a normal program into cgi-bin and have it 
work -- if nothing else, the program needs to output the correct cgi 
headers in order to work with HTTP.  Also, due to the limitations of 
HTTP, it's difficult to write a constantly-updating program -- the 
protocol works on a file-based basis.  A web browser requests a file, 
and typically cannot (properly) display the file until the entire 
contents have arrived.  Since this program is continually sending new 
output, you never send an entire "file" ... so even if a browser is able 
to show a response, you'll have a single page which is constantly 
growing, which is probably not the preferred way of doing this.  You 
could perhaps have the program write a single-page snapshot of the file 
and include a meta-refresh tag, which would tell the browser to reload 
the file (thus grabbing a new snapshot) after a few seconds.

> I know that the program works on a mac, as is, but I don't know the 
> difference and aside from path names which differ from comupter to 
> computer I have been unable to find differences, except sometimes 
> things work and sometimes they don't.  


If you're getting a syntax error, then I'm surprised that it works as-is 
on a Mac -- Python syntax is the same everywhere.  One possibility is 
that line-endings didn't get converted -- different OSs use different 
ways to indicate the end of a line (*nix uses , Mac uses , and 
Windows uses ), and things can get confused if you have the 
wrong type of line ending.  

Jeff Shannon
Technician/Programmer
Credit International




From justin@unixremedies.com  Thu Jul 31 19:07:31 2003
From: justin@unixremedies.com (Justin Heath)
Date: Thu Jul 31 18:07:31 2003
Subject: [Tutor] Recursion help
Message-ID: <3F298E37.8070600@unixremedies.com>

I am working thru some of the examples in the "Learning to Program" 
tutorial. I am going thru the recusrion section and have gotten stumped. 
Here is the code I have run below:

def printList(L):
    # if its empty do nothing
    if not L: return
    # if its a list call printList on 1st element
    if type(L[0]) == type([]):
        printList(L[0])
    else: #no list so just print 
        print L[0] 
    # now process the rest of L 
    printList(L[1:])

myList=[1,2,3,4,5]

printList(myList)

The output is as follows:
1
2
3
4
5

It "appears" that the code is running thru the else block over and over 
until it reaches the end of the list. However, I do not see how the list 
is being enumerated or how it knows to go to the next item in the list. 
Can anyone shed some light on this?

Thanks,
Justin




From zak@harlekin-maus.com  Thu Jul 31 19:22:15 2003
From: zak@harlekin-maus.com (Zak Arntson)
Date: Thu Jul 31 18:22:15 2003
Subject: [Tutor] Recursion help
In-Reply-To: <3F298E37.8070600@unixremedies.com>
References: <3F298E37.8070600@unixremedies.com>
Message-ID: <2920.192.207.104.212.1059690117.squirrel@mail.harlekin-maus.com>

> I am working thru some of the examples in the "Learning to Program"
> tutorial. I am going thru the recusrion section and have gotten stumped.
> Here is the code I have run below:
>
> def printList(L):
>     # if its empty do nothing
>     if not L: return

Reexamine this if statement. What will the type of L[0] be?

>     # if its a list call printList on 1st element
>     if type(L[0]) == type([]):
>         printList(L[0])
>     else: #no list so just print
>         print L[0]
>     # now process the rest of L
>     printList(L[1:])
>
> It "appears" that the code is running thru the else block over and over
> until it reaches the end of the list. However, I do not see how the list
> is being enumerated or how it knows to go to the next item in the list.
> Can anyone shed some light on this?

You can look at it this way:
printList((1,2,3))
   prints (1,2,3)[0] which is 1
   runs printList((1,2,3)[1:]) = printList((2,3))
   now we're in printList((2,3))
      prints (2,3)[0] which is 2
      runs printList((2,3)[1:]) and so on ...

>
> Thanks,
> Justin

---
Zak Arntson
www.harlekin-maus.com - Games - Lots of 'em


From justin@unixremedies.com  Thu Jul 31 19:31:56 2003
From: justin@unixremedies.com (Justin Heath)
Date: Thu Jul 31 18:31:56 2003
Subject: [Tutor] Recursion help
In-Reply-To: <2920.192.207.104.212.1059690117.squirrel@mail.harlekin-maus.com>
References: <3F298E37.8070600@unixremedies.com>
 <2920.192.207.104.212.1059690117.squirrel@mail.harlekin-maus.com>
Message-ID: <3F2993D4.5070303@unixremedies.com>

Zak Arntson wrote:

>>I am working thru some of the examples in the "Learning to Program"
>>tutorial. I am going thru the recusrion section and have gotten stumped.
>>Here is the code I have run below:
>>
>>def printList(L):
>>    # if its empty do nothing
>>    if not L: return
>>    
>>
>
>Reexamine this if statement. What will the type of L[0] be?
>
>  
>
>>    # if its a list call printList on 1st element
>>    if type(L[0]) == type([]):
>>        printList(L[0])
>>    else: #no list so just print
>>        print L[0]
>>    # now process the rest of L
>>    printList(L[1:])
>>
>>It "appears" that the code is running thru the else block over and over
>>until it reaches the end of the list. However, I do not see how the list
>>is being enumerated or how it knows to go to the next item in the list.
>>Can anyone shed some light on this?
>>    
>>
>
>You can look at it this way:
>printList((1,2,3))
>   prints (1,2,3)[0] which is 1
>   runs printList((1,2,3)[1:]) = printList((2,3))
>   now we're in printList((2,3))
>      prints (2,3)[0] which is 2
>      runs printList((2,3)[1:]) and so on ...
>
>  
>
>>Thanks,
>>Justin
>>    
>>
>
>---
>Zak Arntson
>www.harlekin-maus.com - Games - Lots of 'em
>  
>
Thank you. I completely missed the fact that L was being re-assigned 
when printList() was run again.

Thanks,
Justin




From amk@amk.ca  Thu Jul 31 19:56:03 2003
From: amk@amk.ca (A.M. Kuchling)
Date: Thu Jul 31 18:56:03 2003
Subject: [Tutor] Comments wanted on new Python introduction
Message-ID: <20030731225824.GA30757@nyman.amk.ca>

A new set of introductory pages for python.org is being developed.
The current draft of a revised version is at 
http://www.python.org/topics/learn/ .

If you're learning or have recently learned Python, I'd like to hear
your opinions.  Are the pages helpful?  Are there useful resources
that aren't linked to, or beginner questions that aren't answered?

Thanks for your help!

--amk                                                             (www.amk.ca)
Had a hard day in the catacombs, have we?
      -- The Doctor, in "The Masque of Mandragora"


From dyoo@hkn.eecs.berkeley.edu  Thu Jul 31 21:00:02 2003
From: dyoo@hkn.eecs.berkeley.edu (Danny Yoo)
Date: Thu Jul 31 20:00:02 2003
Subject: [Tutor] Recursion help  [experimenting with a recursive function]
In-Reply-To: <3F298E37.8070600@unixremedies.com>
Message-ID: 


On Thu, 31 Jul 2003, Justin Heath wrote:

> I am working thru some of the examples in the "Learning to Program"
> tutorial. I am going thru the recusrion section and have gotten stumped.
>
> Here is the code I have run below:
>
> def printList(L):
>     # if its empty do nothing
>     if not L: return
>     # if its a list call printList on 1st element
>     if type(L[0]) == type([]):
>         printList(L[0])
>     else: #no list so just print
>         print L[0]
>     # now process the rest of L
>     printList(L[1:])



Hi Justin,


A good way to test out a recursive function --- to see how it works --- is
to start on small examples, and then work ourselves up to large ones.


You tested it initially with:


> myList=[1,2,3,4,5]
>
> printList(myList)
>
> The output is as follows:
> 1
> 2
> 3
> 4
> 5


But that's too big of an example.  *grin* Try smaller ones.  Here's a
simple one:

###
printList([])
###

If we read the code, we'll see that trying to "printList()" the empty list
will cleanly exit out of the function.



Ok, so we've got that handled.  Let's build on our knowledge.  What
happens if we try something like this?

###
printList([42])
###




In this case, our "L" list will be [42].  If we look back at the code:

> def printList(L):
>     # if its empty do nothing
>     if not L: return
>     # if its a list call printList on 1st element
>     if type(L[0]) == type([]):
>         printList(L[0])
>     else: #no list so just print
>         print L[0]
>     # now process the rest of L
>     printList(L[1:])


it shouldn't be too hard to see that this will hit the third case:

###
     else: #no list so just print
         print L[0]
###

and print out "42" on our screen.



Finally, it'll try to print out the rest of this list by doing a:

    printList([])

at the end of the function.  So now we have to do printList([])... but we
already know what doing printList([]) does, since we just tried it a few
minutes ago: it doesn't do anything!


Let's summarize:  printList([42]) just prints the number 42.  We're
stating the "obvious", but it's important to understand here that the
function does stop if we do printList([42]).

If you're hung up at this point, start asking more questions!  *grin*




> It "appears" that the code is running thru the else block over and over
> until it reaches the end of the list. However, I do not see how the list
> is being enumerated or how it knows to go to the next item in the list.
> Can anyone shed some light on this?


Ok, now we know what will happen if we do something like printList([]) and
printList([42]).  Let's make the example slightly larger.



Now we can be a bit more ambitious.  We can try:

###
printList([17, 42])
###


You'll notice that it does:

    print 17

followed by:

    printList([42])

But we already know what printList([42]) does: we just did it a few
minutes ago.  So this ends up printing 17 and 42 in sequence.


Try guessing what our next example will look like.  *grin*



So one effective way to understand a recursive process is to push really
simple examples on it and see what it does.  Then progressively make those
examples larger and larger.  By then, you should have a good idea of what
that recursive function does.


Hope this helps!



From idiot1@netzero.net  Thu Jul 31 21:10:02 2003
From: idiot1@netzero.net (Kirk Bailey)
Date: Thu Jul 31 20:10:02 2003
Subject: [Tutor] OHMYGOD...
In-Reply-To: <200307300649.22966.shalehperry@comcast.net>
References: <200307292209.03791@toddloki> <200307300649.22966.shalehperry@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <3F29AFBF.6020501@netzero.net>


Sean 'Shaleh' Perry wrote:

> On Tuesday 29 July 2003 19:09, Todd Stephens wrote:
> 
>>On Tuesday 29 July 2003 08:31 pm, Kirk Bailey wrote:
>>
>>>3 weeks of my life down the John L Crapper just that easy. Wonderful and
>>>powerful is FreeBsD.
>>
>>Wonderful and powerful is root in FreeBSD.
>>
> 
> 
> thanks, I forgot that as my last item:
> 
> *) everytime you login as root, ask yourself if you could accomplish the task 
> as a simple user with tools like su and sudo.  Root is a loaded gun waiting 
> to misfire.
>
Even then, the real problem came due to me issuing a powerful and 
dangerous command while laboring under a misunderstanding- where I was, 
to be precise.

Now, I could have kept this secret, or blaimed it on a HDD failure and 
(blablabla, excuss follow...), but I thought, as this IS the tutor list, 
that it would be an EXCELLENT bad example of how easy it is to make a 
simple mistake and really SCREW THE POOCH. I hope a LOT of beople learn 
from my excellent bad example.

And as the server holds several domains, anything really important will 
soon be  backed up on another server on the LAN on a nightly backup, as 
soon as I can hoodwink////////persuade the host into updating the backup 
script from monthly/weekly to monthly/daily. (systemwide/website).

> 
> _______________________________________________
> Tutor maillist  -  Tutor@python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor
> 
> 

-- 

-- 

end

Cheers!
         Kirk D Bailey

  +                              think                                +
   http://www.howlermonkey.net  +-----+        http://www.tinylist.org
   http://www.listville.net     | BOX |  http://www.sacredelectron.org
   Thou art free"-ERIS          +-----+     'Got a light?'-Promethieus
  +                              think                                +

Fnord.



From ebernert@crpud.net  Thu Jul 31 21:36:55 2003
From: ebernert@crpud.net (Elizabeth Bernert)
Date: Thu Jul 31 20:36:55 2003
Subject: [Tutor] CGI Programming
Message-ID: <3F29B5AB.2090504@crpud.net>

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
--------------090807090907020605060706
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

I am programming in Pythono 2.2 through Apache.  I have searched though 
google and have been unable to come up with anything.  I can "hold" onto 
the inputs from the user for one submit, but no farther.  Is there a way 
to hold onto the words for another submit.  I am writing Mad Libs (C) 
for a class project and am at a loss.  I have attached my project and 
placed comments at the problem.  Thank-you in advance for all advice.
Sincerely,
Elizabeth Bernert

--------------090807090907020605060706
Content-Type: text/plain;
 name="LIB_College.py"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Disposition: inline;
 filename="LIB_College.py"

#!c:/Python22/python.exe
# http://localhost:8080/cgi-bin/LIB_College.py
# Program Files\Apache Group\Apache2\cgi-bin\LIB_College.py
# Final Project - python CGI script

import cgi
import cgitb; cgitb.enable()

print "Content-type: text/html\n\n"

form = cgi.FieldStorage()

ADJECTIVE1 = str(form.getvalue('ADJECTIVE1'))
PLURAL_NOUN1 = str(form.getvalue('PLURAL_NOUN1'))
PLURAL_NOUN2 = str(form.getvalue('PLURAL_NOUN2'))
PLURAL_NOUN3 = str(form.getvalue('PLURAL_NOUN3'))
ADJECTIVE2 = str(form.getvalue('ADJECTIVE2'))
ADJECTIVE3 = str(form.getvalue('ADJECTIVE3'))
PLURAL_NOUN4 = str(form.getvalue('PLURAL_NOUN4'))
NUMBER1 = str(form.getvalue('NUMBER1'))
NOUN1 = str(form.getvalue('NOUN1'))
PLURAL_NOUN5 = str(form.getvalue('PLURAL_NOUN5'))
AN_OCCUPATION1 = str(form.getvalue('AN_OCCUPATION1'))
AN_OCCUPATION2 = str(form.getvalue('AN_OCCUPATION2'))
PLURAL_NOUN6 = str(form.getvalue('PLURAL_NOUN6'))
ADJECTIVE4 = str(form.getvalue('ADJECTIVE4'))

print ''

print "Our American Universities offer students many" + " " + ADJECTIVE1
print "courses that will prepare them to become good" + " " + PLURAL_NOUN1 + ".  You can get a degree as a Bachelor of" + " " + PLURAL_NOUN2 + ", or tske a regular liberal" + PLURAL_NOUN3
print "course.  Or, if you want to become a/an" + " " + ADJECTIVE2
print "engineer, you can study" + " " + ADJECTIVE3
print "mathmatics and differential" + " " + PLURAL_NOUN4 + ". Then after" + " " + NUMBER1
print "years, if you want to continue your studis, you can write a/an" + " " + NOUN1
print "and become a Doctor of" + " " + PLURAL_NOUN5 + ". When you get out into the world, if you have a diploma from a university, you will be able to get a job as a/an" + " " + AN_OCCUPATION1 + ".  If you don't have a diploma, you will have to take a job as a/an" + " " + AN_OCCUPATION2 + ".  So it's important that you study hard in highschool so you will do well on your College Enterence" + " " + PLURAL_NOUN6 + ".  Remember, 'A little learning is a/an" + " " + ADJECTIVE4
print "thing."

print ''

#HERE IS MY PROBLEM
#
#
#
#
print """







    





"""
#
#
#MY PROBLEM IS ABOVE
#
#
print """



    If you want to input new words, then please fill out the entire form:







    Don't forget:

        An  ADJECTIVE  describes something or somebody.  Lumpy, soft, blond, ugly, messay, and short are adjectives.

        An  ADVERB  tells how something is done.  It modifies a verb and usually ends in 'ly'.

        A  NOUN  is the name of a person, place, or thing.  Woman, sidewalk, umbrella, horse-collar, bathtub, and nose are nouns.

        A  VERB  is an action word.  Run, pitch, jump, and swim are verbs.

        When a  GEOGRAPHICAL LOCATION is asked for, give any sort of place: a country or city [Spain, Cleaveland]
            or a room [Bathroom, Kitchen].

        An  EXCLAMATION  or  SILLY WORD  is any sort of funny sound, gasp, grunt, or outcry.
            Wow! Ouch! Whomp! Ick! Gadzooks! are exclamations and silly words.

        When a specific word is asked for like  NUMBER, A COLOR, AN ANIMAL,  or  A PART OF THE BODY ,
            what is meant is a word that is one of those things.

        When a  PLURAL  is asked for be sure to pluralize the word.



ADJECTIVE::
    

PLURAL_NOUN:
    

PLURAL_NOUN:
    

PLURAL_NOUN:
    

ADJECTIVE:
    

ADJECTIVE:
    

PLURAL_NOUN:
    

NUMBER:
    

NOUN:
    

PLURAL_NOUN:
    

AN_OCCUPATION:
    

AN_OCCUPATION:
    

PLURAL_NOUN:
    

ADJECTIVE:
    

A_PERSON:
    

NOUN:
    

NOUN:
    

A_PERSON:
    

NUMBER:
    

NOUN:
    

FAMOUS_PERSON:
    

VERB:
    

NAME:
    

NAME:
    

NOUN:
    

NOUN:
    


    







"""

form = cgi.FieldStorage()

if len(form)>0:
    ADJECTIVE1 = form.getvalue('ADJECTIVE1')
    ADJECTIVE2 = form.getvalue('ADJECTIVE2')
    ADJECTIVE3 = form.getvalue('ADJECTIVE3')
    ADJECTIVE4 = form.getvalue('ADJECTIVE4')
    PLURAL_NOUN1 = form.getvalue('PLURAL_NOUN1')
    PLURAL_NOUN2 = form.getvalue('PLURAL_NOUN2')
    PLURAL_NOUN3 = form.getvalue('PLURAL_NOUN3')
    PLURAL_NOUN4 = form.getvalue('PLURAL_NOUN4')
    PLURAL_NOUN5 = form.getvalue('PLURAL_NOUN5')
    PLURAL_NOUN6 = form.getvalue('PLURAL_NOUN6')
    NUMBER1 = form.getvalue('NUMBER1')
    NUMBER2 = form.getvalue('NUMBER2')
    NOUN1 = form.gervalue('NOUN1')
    NOUN2 = form.getvalue('NOUN2')
    NOUN3 = form.getvalue('NOUN3')
    NOUN4 = form.getvalue('NOUN4')
    NOUN5 = form.getvalue('NOUN5')
    NOUN6 = form.getvalue('NOUN6')
    AN_OCCUPATION1 = form.getvalue('AN_OCCUPATION1')
    AN_OCCUPATION2 = form.getvalue('AN_OCCUPATION2')
    A_PERSON1 = form.getvalue('A_PERSON1')    
    A_PERSON2 = form.getvalue('A_PERSON2')
    NAME1 = form.getvalue('NAME1')
    NAME2 = form.getvalue('NAME2')
    VERB1 = form.getvalue('VERB1')
    FAMOUS_PERSON1 = form.getvalue('FAMOUS_PERSON1')
else:
    ADJECTIVE1 = 'blond'
    ADJECTIVE2 = 'blond'
    ADJECTIVE3 = 'blond'
    ADJECTIVE4 = 'blond'
    PLURAL_NOUN1 = 'women'
    PLURAL_NOUN2 = 'men'
    PLURAL_NOUN3 = 'women'
    PLURAL_NOUN4 = 'men'
    PLURAL_NOUN5 = 'women'
    PLURAL_NOUN6 = 'men'
    NUMBER1 = '1'
    NUMBER2 = '2'
    NOUN1 = 'woman'
    NOUN2 = 'man'
    NOUN3 = 'woman'
    NOUN4 = 'man'
    NOUN5 = 'woman'
    NOUN6 = 'man'
    AN_OCCUPATION1 = 'teacher'
    AN_OCCUPATION2 = 'waitress'
    A_PERSON1 = ' fill in later '
    A_PERSON2 = ' fill in later '
    NAME1 = ' fill in later '
    NAME2 = ' fill in later '
    VERB1 = 'run'
    FAMOUS_PERSON1 = 'GOD'


--------------090807090907020605060706
Content-Type: text/plain;
 name="final.py"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Disposition: inline;
 filename="final.py"

#!c:/Python22/python.exe
# http://localhost:8080/cgi-bin/final.py
# Program Files\Apache Group\Apache2\cgi-bin\final.py
# Final Lab - python CGI script
# Elizabeth Bernert

import cgi
import cgitb; cgitb.enable()

print "Content-type: text/html\n\n"

print """



    Please fill out the entire form:


    Don't forget:

        An  ADJECTIVE  describes something or somebody.  Lumpy, soft, blond, ugly, messay, and short are adjectives.

        An  ADVERB  tells how something is done.  It modifies a verb and usually ends in 'ly'.

        A  NOUN  is the name of a person, place, or thing.  Woman, sidewalk, umbrella, horse-collar, bathtub, and nose are nouns.

        A  VERB  is an action word.  Run, pitch, jump, and swim are verbs.

        When a  GEOGRAPHICAL LOCATION is asked for, give any sort of place: a country or city [Spain, Cleaveland]
            or a room [Bathroom, Kitchen].

        An  EXCLAMATION  or  SILLY WORD  is any sort of funny sound, gasp, grunt, or outcry.
            Wow! Ouch! Whomp! Ick! Gadzooks! are exclamations and silly words.

        When a specific word is asked for like  NUMBER, A COLOR, AN ANIMAL,  or  A PART OF THE BODY ,
            what is meant is a word that is one of those things.

        When a  PLURAL  is asked for be sure to pluralize the word.









ADJECTIVE::
    

PLURAL_NOUN:
    

PLURAL_NOUN:
    

PLURAL_NOUN:
    

ADJECTIVE:
    

ADJECTIVE:
    

PLURAL_NOUN:
    

NUMBER:
    

NOUN:
    

PLURAL_NOUN:
    

AN_OCCUPATION:
    

AN_OCCUPATION:
    

PLURAL_NOUN:
    

ADJECTIVE:
    

A_PERSON:
    

NOUN:
    

NOUN:
    

A_PERSON:
    

NUMBER:
    

NOUN:
    

FAMOUS_PERSON:
    

VERB:
    

NAME:
    

NAME:
    

NOUN:
    

NOUN:
    


    





"""

form = cgi.FieldStorage()

if len(form)>0:
    ADJECTIVE1 = form.getvalue('ADJECTIVE1')
    ADJECTIVE2 = form.getvalue('ADJECTIVE2')
    ADJECTIVE3 = form.getvalue('ADJECTIVE3')
    ADJECTIVE4 = form.getvalue('ADJECTIVE4')
    PLURAL_NOUN1 = form.getvalue('PLURAL_NOUN1')
    PLURAL_NOUN2 = form.getvalue('PLURAL_NOUN2')
    PLURAL_NOUN3 = form.getvalue('PLURAL_NOUN3')
    PLURAL_NOUN4 = form.getvalue('PLURAL_NOUN4')
    PLURAL_NOUN5 = form.getvalue('PLURAL_NOUN5')
    PLURAL_NOUN6 = form.getvalue('PLURAL_NOUN6')
    NUMBER1 = form.getvalue('NUMBER1')
    NUMBER2 = form.getvalue('NUMBER2')
    NOUN1 = form.gervalue('NOUN1')
    NOUN2 = form.getvalue('NOUN2')
    NOUN3 = form.getvalue('NOUN3')
    NOUN4 = form.getvalue('NOUN4')
    NOUN5 = form.getvalue('NOUN5')
    NOUN6 = form.getvalue('NOUN6')
    AN_OCCUPATION1 = form.getvalue('AN_OCCUPATION1')
    AN_OCCUPATION2 = form.getvalue('AN_OCCUPATION2')
    A_PERSON1 = form.getvalue('A_PERSON1')    
    A_PERSON2 = form.getvalue('A_PERSON2')
    NAME1 = form.getvalue('NAME1')
    NAME2 = form.getvalue('NAME2')
    VERB1 = form.getvalue('VERB1')
    FAMOUS_PERSON1 = form.getvalue('FAMOUS_PERSON1')
else:
    ADJECTIVE1 = 'blond'
    ADJECTIVE2 = 'blond'
    ADJECTIVE3 = 'blond'
    ADJECTIVE4 = 'blond'
    PLURAL_NOUN1 = 'women'
    PLURAL_NOUN2 = 'men'
    PLURAL_NOUN3 = 'women'
    PLURAL_NOUN4 = 'men'
    PLURAL_NOUN5 = 'women'
    PLURAL_NOUN6 = 'men'
    NUMBER1 = '1'
    NUMBER2 = '2'
    NOUN1 = 'woman'
    NOUN2 = 'man'
    NOUN3 = 'woman'
    NOUN4 = 'man'
    NOUN5 = 'woman'
    NOUN6 = 'man'
    AN_OCCUPATION1 = 'teacher'
    AN_OCCUPATION2 = 'waitress'
    A_PERSON1 = ' fill in later '
    A_PERSON2 = ' fill in later '
    NAME1 = ' fill in later '
    NAME2 = ' fill in later '
    VERB1 = 'run'
    FAMOUS_PERSON1 = 'GOD'

--------------090807090907020605060706
Content-Type: text/plain;
 name="LIB_finalexam.py"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Disposition: inline;
 filename="LIB_finalexam.py"

#!c:/Python22/python.exe
# http://localhost:8080/cgi-bin/mult.py
# Program Files\Apache Group\Apache2\cgi-bin\mult.py
# Final Project - python CGI script

import cgi

import cgitb; cgitb.enable()

print "Content-type: text/html\n\n"

form = cgi.FieldStorage()

ADJECTIVE1 = str(form.getvalue('ADJECTIVE1'))
A_PERSON1 = str(form.getvalue('A_PERSON1'))
NOUN1 = str(form.getvalue('NOUN1'))
PLURAL_NOUN1 = str(form.getvalue('PLURAL_NOUN1'))
NOUN2 = str(form.getvalue('NOUN2'))
NOUN3 = str(form.getvalue('NOUN3'))
A_PERSON2 = str(form.getvalue('A_PERSON2'))
NUMBER1 = str(form.getvalue('NUMBER1'))
PLURAL_NOUN2 = str(form.getvalue('PLRAL_NOUN2'))
NOUN4 = str(form.getvalue('NOUN4'))
PLURAL_NOUN3 = str(form.getvalue('PLURAL_NOUN3'))

print ''

print "Well it's time for final exams again.  Her are some sample questions with" + " " + ADJECTIVE1
print "answers that may give you an idea of what final exams are like:"
print "
 
  QUESTION: "
print "
 Who was the first president of the United States?"
print "
  ANSWER: "
print "
" + A_PERSON1
print ", who was also called, 'The" + " " + NOUN1
print "of Our Country."
print "
 
  QUESTION: "
print "
 What is the shortest distance between two" + " " + PLURAL_NOUN1 + "?"
print "
  ANSWER: "
print "
 A straight" + " " + NOUN2 + "."
print "
 
  QUESTION: "
print "Who said, 'I regret that I only have one" + " " + NOUN3
print "to give for my country.'?"
print "
  ANSWER:  "
print "
" + A_PERSON2 + "."

print ''

--------------090807090907020605060706--




From jeff@ccvcorp.com  Thu Jul 31 22:10:02 2003
From: jeff@ccvcorp.com (Jeff Shannon)
Date: Thu Jul 31 21:10:02 2003
Subject: [Fwd: [Tutor] CGI Programming]
Message-ID: <3F29BE15.2000906@ccvcorp.com>

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
--------------040108010508010804040400
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit


I'm forwarding this to the Tutor list.  This really isn't an area I'm 
familiar with -- I have not yet done any CGI programming -- and I really 
don't have the free time to research this just now.  Hopefully someone 
else on the list will be able to help...

Jeff Shannon
Technician/Programmer
Credit International

-------- Original Message --------
Subject: [Tutor] CGI Programming
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 17:34:51 -0700
From: Elizabeth Bernert 
Reply-To: ebernert@crpud.net
To: tutor@python.org



I am programming in Pythono 2.2 through Apache.  I have searched though 
google and have been unable to come up with anything.  I can "hold" onto 
the inputs from the user for one submit, but no farther.  Is there a way 
to hold onto the words for another submit.  I am writing Mad Libs (C) 
for a class project and am at a loss.  I have attached my project and 
placed comments at the problem.  Thank-you in advance for all advice.
Sincerely,
Elizabeth Bernert



--------------040108010508010804040400
Content-Type: text/plain;
 name="LIB_College.py"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Disposition: inline;
 filename="LIB_College.py"

#!c:/Python22/python.exe
# http://localhost:8080/cgi-bin/LIB_College.py
# Program Files\Apache Group\Apache2\cgi-bin\LIB_College.py
# Final Project - python CGI script

import cgi
import cgitb; cgitb.enable()

print "Content-type: text/html\n\n"

form = cgi.FieldStorage()

ADJECTIVE1 = str(form.getvalue('ADJECTIVE1'))
PLURAL_NOUN1 = str(form.getvalue('PLURAL_NOUN1'))
PLURAL_NOUN2 = str(form.getvalue('PLURAL_NOUN2'))
PLURAL_NOUN3 = str(form.getvalue('PLURAL_NOUN3'))
ADJECTIVE2 = str(form.getvalue('ADJECTIVE2'))
ADJECTIVE3 = str(form.getvalue('ADJECTIVE3'))
PLURAL_NOUN4 = str(form.getvalue('PLURAL_NOUN4'))
NUMBER1 = str(form.getvalue('NUMBER1'))
NOUN1 = str(form.getvalue('NOUN1'))
PLURAL_NOUN5 = str(form.getvalue('PLURAL_NOUN5'))
AN_OCCUPATION1 = str(form.getvalue('AN_OCCUPATION1'))
AN_OCCUPATION2 = str(form.getvalue('AN_OCCUPATION2'))
PLURAL_NOUN6 = str(form.getvalue('PLURAL_NOUN6'))
ADJECTIVE4 = str(form.getvalue('ADJECTIVE4'))

print ''

print "Our American Universities offer students many" + " " + ADJECTIVE1
print "courses that will prepare them to become good" + " " + PLURAL_NOUN1 + ".  You can get a degree as a Bachelor of" + " " + PLURAL_NOUN2 + ", or tske a regular liberal" + PLURAL_NOUN3
print "course.  Or, if you want to become a/an" + " " + ADJECTIVE2
print "engineer, you can study" + " " + ADJECTIVE3
print "mathmatics and differential" + " " + PLURAL_NOUN4 + ". Then after" + " " + NUMBER1
print "years, if you want to continue your studis, you can write a/an" + " " + NOUN1
print "and become a Doctor of" + " " + PLURAL_NOUN5 + ". When you get out into the world, if you have a diploma from a university, you will be able to get a job as a/an" + " " + AN_OCCUPATION1 + ".  If you don't have a diploma, you will have to take a job as a/an" + " " + AN_OCCUPATION2 + ".  So it's important that you study hard in highschool so you will do well on your College Enterence" + " " + PLURAL_NOUN6 + ".  Remember, 'A little learning is a/an" + " " + ADJECTIVE4
print "thing."

print ''

#HERE IS MY PROBLEM
#
#
#
#
print """







    





"""
#
#
#MY PROBLEM IS ABOVE
#
#
print """



    If you want to input new words, then please fill out the entire form:







    Don't forget:

        An  ADJECTIVE  describes something or somebody.  Lumpy, soft, blond, ugly, messay, and short are adjectives.

        An  ADVERB  tells how something is done.  It modifies a verb and usually ends in 'ly'.

        A  NOUN  is the name of a person, place, or thing.  Woman, sidewalk, umbrella, horse-collar, bathtub, and nose are nouns.

        A  VERB  is an action word.  Run, pitch, jump, and swim are verbs.

        When a  GEOGRAPHICAL LOCATION is asked for, give any sort of place: a country or city [Spain, Cleaveland]
            or a room [Bathroom, Kitchen].

        An  EXCLAMATION  or  SILLY WORD  is any sort of funny sound, gasp, grunt, or outcry.
            Wow! Ouch! Whomp! Ick! Gadzooks! are exclamations and silly words.

        When a specific word is asked for like  NUMBER, A COLOR, AN ANIMAL,  or  A PART OF THE BODY ,
            what is meant is a word that is one of those things.

        When a  PLURAL  is asked for be sure to pluralize the word.



ADJECTIVE::
    

PLURAL_NOUN:
    

PLURAL_NOUN:
    

PLURAL_NOUN:
    

ADJECTIVE:
    

ADJECTIVE:
    

PLURAL_NOUN:
    

NUMBER:
    

NOUN:
    

PLURAL_NOUN:
    

AN_OCCUPATION:
    

AN_OCCUPATION:
    

PLURAL_NOUN:
    

ADJECTIVE:
    

A_PERSON:
    

NOUN:
    

NOUN:
    

A_PERSON:
    

NUMBER:
    

NOUN:
    

FAMOUS_PERSON:
    

VERB:
    

NAME:
    

NAME:
    

NOUN:
    

NOUN:
    


    







"""

form = cgi.FieldStorage()

if len(form)>0:
    ADJECTIVE1 = form.getvalue('ADJECTIVE1')
    ADJECTIVE2 = form.getvalue('ADJECTIVE2')
    ADJECTIVE3 = form.getvalue('ADJECTIVE3')
    ADJECTIVE4 = form.getvalue('ADJECTIVE4')
    PLURAL_NOUN1 = form.getvalue('PLURAL_NOUN1')
    PLURAL_NOUN2 = form.getvalue('PLURAL_NOUN2')
    PLURAL_NOUN3 = form.getvalue('PLURAL_NOUN3')
    PLURAL_NOUN4 = form.getvalue('PLURAL_NOUN4')
    PLURAL_NOUN5 = form.getvalue('PLURAL_NOUN5')
    PLURAL_NOUN6 = form.getvalue('PLURAL_NOUN6')
    NUMBER1 = form.getvalue('NUMBER1')
    NUMBER2 = form.getvalue('NUMBER2')
    NOUN1 = form.gervalue('NOUN1')
    NOUN2 = form.getvalue('NOUN2')
    NOUN3 = form.getvalue('NOUN3')
    NOUN4 = form.getvalue('NOUN4')
    NOUN5 = form.getvalue('NOUN5')
    NOUN6 = form.getvalue('NOUN6')
    AN_OCCUPATION1 = form.getvalue('AN_OCCUPATION1')
    AN_OCCUPATION2 = form.getvalue('AN_OCCUPATION2')
    A_PERSON1 = form.getvalue('A_PERSON1')    
    A_PERSON2 = form.getvalue('A_PERSON2')
    NAME1 = form.getvalue('NAME1')
    NAME2 = form.getvalue('NAME2')
    VERB1 = form.getvalue('VERB1')
    FAMOUS_PERSON1 = form.getvalue('FAMOUS_PERSON1')
else:
    ADJECTIVE1 = 'blond'
    ADJECTIVE2 = 'blond'
    ADJECTIVE3 = 'blond'
    ADJECTIVE4 = 'blond'
    PLURAL_NOUN1 = 'women'
    PLURAL_NOUN2 = 'men'
    PLURAL_NOUN3 = 'women'
    PLURAL_NOUN4 = 'men'
    PLURAL_NOUN5 = 'women'
    PLURAL_NOUN6 = 'men'
    NUMBER1 = '1'
    NUMBER2 = '2'
    NOUN1 = 'woman'
    NOUN2 = 'man'
    NOUN3 = 'woman'
    NOUN4 = 'man'
    NOUN5 = 'woman'
    NOUN6 = 'man'
    AN_OCCUPATION1 = 'teacher'
    AN_OCCUPATION2 = 'waitress'
    A_PERSON1 = ' fill in later '
    A_PERSON2 = ' fill in later '
    NAME1 = ' fill in later '
    NAME2 = ' fill in later '
    VERB1 = 'run'
    FAMOUS_PERSON1 = 'GOD'



--------------040108010508010804040400
Content-Type: text/plain;
 name="final.py"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Disposition: inline;
 filename="final.py"

#!c:/Python22/python.exe
# http://localhost:8080/cgi-bin/final.py
# Program Files\Apache Group\Apache2\cgi-bin\final.py
# Final Lab - python CGI script
# Elizabeth Bernert

import cgi
import cgitb; cgitb.enable()

print "Content-type: text/html\n\n"

print """



    Please fill out the entire form:


    Don't forget:

        An  ADJECTIVE  describes something or somebody.  Lumpy, soft, blond, ugly, messay, and short are adjectives.

        An  ADVERB  tells how something is done.  It modifies a verb and usually ends in 'ly'.

        A  NOUN  is the name of a person, place, or thing.  Woman, sidewalk, umbrella, horse-collar, bathtub, and nose are nouns.

        A  VERB  is an action word.  Run, pitch, jump, and swim are verbs.

        When a  GEOGRAPHICAL LOCATION is asked for, give any sort of place: a country or city [Spain, Cleaveland]
            or a room [Bathroom, Kitchen].

        An  EXCLAMATION  or  SILLY WORD  is any sort of funny sound, gasp, grunt, or outcry.
            Wow! Ouch! Whomp! Ick! Gadzooks! are exclamations and silly words.

        When a specific word is asked for like  NUMBER, A COLOR, AN ANIMAL,  or  A PART OF THE BODY ,
            what is meant is a word that is one of those things.

        When a  PLURAL  is asked for be sure to pluralize the word.









ADJECTIVE::
    

PLURAL_NOUN:
    

PLURAL_NOUN:
    

PLURAL_NOUN:
    

ADJECTIVE:
    

ADJECTIVE:
    

PLURAL_NOUN:
    

NUMBER:
    

NOUN:
    

PLURAL_NOUN:
    

AN_OCCUPATION:
    

AN_OCCUPATION:
    

PLURAL_NOUN:
    

ADJECTIVE:
    

A_PERSON:
    

NOUN:
    

NOUN:
    

A_PERSON:
    

NUMBER:
    

NOUN:
    

FAMOUS_PERSON:
    

VERB:
    

NAME:
    

NAME:
    

NOUN:
    

NOUN:
    


    





"""

form = cgi.FieldStorage()

if len(form)>0:
    ADJECTIVE1 = form.getvalue('ADJECTIVE1')
    ADJECTIVE2 = form.getvalue('ADJECTIVE2')
    ADJECTIVE3 = form.getvalue('ADJECTIVE3')
    ADJECTIVE4 = form.getvalue('ADJECTIVE4')
    PLURAL_NOUN1 = form.getvalue('PLURAL_NOUN1')
    PLURAL_NOUN2 = form.getvalue('PLURAL_NOUN2')
    PLURAL_NOUN3 = form.getvalue('PLURAL_NOUN3')
    PLURAL_NOUN4 = form.getvalue('PLURAL_NOUN4')
    PLURAL_NOUN5 = form.getvalue('PLURAL_NOUN5')
    PLURAL_NOUN6 = form.getvalue('PLURAL_NOUN6')
    NUMBER1 = form.getvalue('NUMBER1')
    NUMBER2 = form.getvalue('NUMBER2')
    NOUN1 = form.gervalue('NOUN1')
    NOUN2 = form.getvalue('NOUN2')
    NOUN3 = form.getvalue('NOUN3')
    NOUN4 = form.getvalue('NOUN4')
    NOUN5 = form.getvalue('NOUN5')
    NOUN6 = form.getvalue('NOUN6')
    AN_OCCUPATION1 = form.getvalue('AN_OCCUPATION1')
    AN_OCCUPATION2 = form.getvalue('AN_OCCUPATION2')
    A_PERSON1 = form.getvalue('A_PERSON1')    
    A_PERSON2 = form.getvalue('A_PERSON2')
    NAME1 = form.getvalue('NAME1')
    NAME2 = form.getvalue('NAME2')
    VERB1 = form.getvalue('VERB1')
    FAMOUS_PERSON1 = form.getvalue('FAMOUS_PERSON1')
else:
    ADJECTIVE1 = 'blond'
    ADJECTIVE2 = 'blond'
    ADJECTIVE3 = 'blond'
    ADJECTIVE4 = 'blond'
    PLURAL_NOUN1 = 'women'
    PLURAL_NOUN2 = 'men'
    PLURAL_NOUN3 = 'women'
    PLURAL_NOUN4 = 'men'
    PLURAL_NOUN5 = 'women'
    PLURAL_NOUN6 = 'men'
    NUMBER1 = '1'
    NUMBER2 = '2'
    NOUN1 = 'woman'
    NOUN2 = 'man'
    NOUN3 = 'woman'
    NOUN4 = 'man'
    NOUN5 = 'woman'
    NOUN6 = 'man'
    AN_OCCUPATION1 = 'teacher'
    AN_OCCUPATION2 = 'waitress'
    A_PERSON1 = ' fill in later '
    A_PERSON2 = ' fill in later '
    NAME1 = ' fill in later '
    NAME2 = ' fill in later '
    VERB1 = 'run'
    FAMOUS_PERSON1 = 'GOD'


--------------040108010508010804040400
Content-Type: text/plain;
 name="LIB_finalexam.py"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Disposition: inline;
 filename="LIB_finalexam.py"

#!c:/Python22/python.exe
# http://localhost:8080/cgi-bin/mult.py
# Program Files\Apache Group\Apache2\cgi-bin\mult.py
# Final Project - python CGI script

import cgi

import cgitb; cgitb.enable()

print "Content-type: text/html\n\n"

form = cgi.FieldStorage()

ADJECTIVE1 = str(form.getvalue('ADJECTIVE1'))
A_PERSON1 = str(form.getvalue('A_PERSON1'))
NOUN1 = str(form.getvalue('NOUN1'))
PLURAL_NOUN1 = str(form.getvalue('PLURAL_NOUN1'))
NOUN2 = str(form.getvalue('NOUN2'))
NOUN3 = str(form.getvalue('NOUN3'))
A_PERSON2 = str(form.getvalue('A_PERSON2'))
NUMBER1 = str(form.getvalue('NUMBER1'))
PLURAL_NOUN2 = str(form.getvalue('PLRAL_NOUN2'))
NOUN4 = str(form.getvalue('NOUN4'))
PLURAL_NOUN3 = str(form.getvalue('PLURAL_NOUN3'))

print ''

print "Well it's time for final exams again.  Her are some sample questions with" + " " + ADJECTIVE1
print "answers that may give you an idea of what final exams are like:"
print "
 
  QUESTION: "
print "
 Who was the first president of the United States?"
print "
  ANSWER: "
print "
" + A_PERSON1
print ", who was also called, 'The" + " " + NOUN1
print "of Our Country."
print "
 
  QUESTION: "
print "
 What is the shortest distance between two" + " " + PLURAL_NOUN1 + "?"
print "
  ANSWER: "
print "
 A straight" + " " + NOUN2 + "."
print "
 
  QUESTION: "
print "Who said, 'I regret that I only have one" + " " + NOUN3
print "to give for my country.'?"
print "
  ANSWER:  "
print "
" + A_PERSON2 + "."

print ''


--------------040108010508010804040400--



From jeff@ccvcorp.com  Thu Jul 31 22:13:01 2003
From: jeff@ccvcorp.com (Jeff Shannon)
Date: Thu Jul 31 21:13:01 2003
Subject: [Tutor] Ack!
Message-ID: <3F29BEAB.1000308@ccvcorp.com>

Nevermind that last email from me.  I wasn't in the mailbox I thought I 
was...  It's been a long, frustrating day.  Sorry to confuse anyone.  :)

Jeff Shannon
Technician/Programmer
Credit International




From goki75@vsnl.net  Thu Jul 31 22:37:19 2003
From: goki75@vsnl.net (G Kiran)
Date: Thu Jul 31 21:37:19 2003
Subject: [Tutor] Re: Tutor digest, Vol 1 #2622 - 13 msgs
References: <20030731160006.11018.13659.Mailman@mail.python.org>
Message-ID: <000c01c357cd$28d07c50$bc4c41db@VULCAN>

Hi,

    I am trying to limit no of threads i can spawn for a multi threaded
socket server .

presently i do this by the following fragment of code


maxthreads=40
for ct in range(0,len(scanlist)-1):
        th.append(checkport(scanlist[ct])
        th[ct].start()
        while  threading.activeCount() > maxthreads :  pass  ##### this is
how i am limiting the no of threads

i am using the threading class fo my checkport function

is there any other way of doing it...rather than the endless loop which i
feel wastes the processor time


-kiran



From idiot1@netzero.net  Thu Jul 31 22:48:02 2003
From: idiot1@netzero.net (Kirk Bailey)
Date: Thu Jul 31 21:48:02 2003
Subject: [Tutor] global
Message-ID: <3F29C6A3.4050100@netzero.net>

Got a script that wants to bark. Early in the program I define some 
defaults for certain variables to define state (they are used as boolian 
flags, 1/0 stuff). Later, a function referrs o one- and barks. Says it 
does not know the variable- undefined. Hmmm, sure it is... Apparently 
this function is not aware the variable is already defined. How do I 
force a variable to be global so it will automatically be available to 
the insiode structure of a defined function without having to formally 
pass it as an arguement?

-- 

-- 

end

Cheers!
         Kirk D Bailey

  +                              think                                +
   http://www.howlermonkey.net  +-----+        http://www.tinylist.org
   http://www.listville.net     | BOX |  http://www.sacredelectron.org
   Thou art free"-ERIS          +-----+     'Got a light?'-Promethieus
  +                              think                                +

Fnord.




From jeff@ccvcorp.com  Thu Jul 31 22:59:03 2003
From: jeff@ccvcorp.com (Jeff Shannon)
Date: Thu Jul 31 21:59:03 2003
Subject: [Tutor] global
References: <3F29C6A3.4050100@netzero.net>
Message-ID: <3F29C9A1.9050508@ccvcorp.com>

Kirk Bailey wrote:

> Got a script that wants to bark. Early in the program I define some 
> defaults for certain variables to define state (they are used as 
> boolian flags, 1/0 stuff). Later, a function referrs o one- and barks. 
> Says it does not know the variable- undefined. Hmmm, sure it is... 
> Apparently this function is not aware the variable is already defined. 
> How do I force a variable to be global so it will automatically be 
> available to the insiode structure of a defined function without 
> having to formally pass it as an arguement? 


Presuming that this is within the same module, nothing needs to be done. 
 However, rebinding a name that [supposedly] points to a global object 
can result in a problem like what you mention --

 >>> spam = 5
 >>> def foo(value):
...     print "Had %d spam," % spam
...     spam = value
...     print "Now have %d spam" % spam
...    
 >>> foo(6)
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "", line 1, in ?
  File "", line 2, in foo
UnboundLocalError: local variable 'spam' referenced before assignment
 >>> spam
5
 >>>

Since there is an assignment to spam within the function foo(), spam 
becomes a local variable.  Because of certain optimizations used for 
local variables, this means that if spam isn't found in the locals() 
[psuedo-]dict, it won't get looked up in the globals() dict.  As a 
result, attempting to access spam before assigning to it causes an error 
-- Python knows that it should be a local, but can't find it there. 
 This can be resolved by placing the statement 'global spam' at the top 
of foo().  That tells Python that this *isn't* a local variable, and 
that it should always be looked for in the globals() dict.

If this isn't what's happening to you, then post the relevant code (the 
module-level definitions and the function that's using them) and the 
full traceback of the error.

Jeff Shannon
Technician/Programmer
Credit International




From tim@johnsons-web.com  Thu Jul 31 23:09:01 2003
From: tim@johnsons-web.com (Tim Johnson)
Date: Thu Jul 31 22:09:01 2003
Subject: [Tutor] CGI Programming
In-Reply-To: <3F29B5AB.2090504@crpud.net>
References: <3F29B5AB.2090504@crpud.net>
Message-ID: <20030801021509.GZ22826@johnsons-web.com>

* Elizabeth Bernert  [030731 16:48]:
> I am programming in Pythono 2.2 through Apache.  I have searched though 
> google and have been unable to come up with anything.  I can "hold" onto 
> the inputs from the user for one submit, but no farther.  Is there a way 
> to hold onto the words for another submit.  I am writing Mad Libs (C) 
> for a class project and am at a loss.  I have attached my project and 
> placed comments at the problem.  Thank-you in advance for all advice.
> Sincerely,
 Hello Elizabeth:
    One simple way to "persist" data would be to encode
    it in a query string that would carry data from
    page 1 posted to page 2 and then use the "get" method
    to transmit to page 3 (as an example)
    Another way, expanding on this example is that the data
    posted from page 1 (or passed via a query string as
    in http://www.somdomain.com/cgi-bin/cgi.py?var1=one&var2=two,
    for that matter) would be stored within a form on page 2
    in fields of input/type "hidden". It would then be posted
    forward to page 3.

    The process I'm describing is language independent -
    there's also FastCgi, but learn CGI first :-)
    pythonesque example below....

> Elizabeth Bernert

> #!c:/Python22/python.exe
> # http://localhost:8080/cgi-bin/LIB_College.py
> # Program Files\Apache Group\Apache2\cgi-bin\LIB_College.py
> # Final Project - python CGI script
> 
> import cgi
> import cgitb; cgitb.enable()
> 
> print "Content-type: text/html\n\n"
> 
> form = cgi.FieldStorage()
> 
> ADJECTIVE1 = str(form.getvalue('ADJECTIVE1'))
> PLURAL_NOUN1 = str(form.getvalue('PLURAL_NOUN1'))
> PLURAL_NOUN2 = str(form.getvalue('PLURAL_NOUN2'))
> PLURAL_NOUN3 = str(form.getvalue('PLURAL_NOUN3'))
> ADJECTIVE2 = str(form.getvalue('ADJECTIVE2'))
> ADJECTIVE3 = str(form.getvalue('ADJECTIVE3'))
> PLURAL_NOUN4 = str(form.getvalue('PLURAL_NOUN4'))
> NUMBER1 = str(form.getvalue('NUMBER1'))
> NOUN1 = str(form.getvalue('NOUN1'))
> PLURAL_NOUN5 = str(form.getvalue('PLURAL_NOUN5'))
> AN_OCCUPATION1 = str(form.getvalue('AN_OCCUPATION1'))
> AN_OCCUPATION2 = str(form.getvalue('AN_OCCUPATION2'))
> PLURAL_NOUN6 = str(form.getvalue('PLURAL_NOUN6'))
> ADJECTIVE4 = str(form.getvalue('ADJECTIVE4'))

    So you could store something preposted
    as in
    '' %(str(form.getvalue('PLURAL_NOUN4')))
    # untested code!!
    HTH
    tim
> 
> print ''
> 
> print "Our American Universities offer students many" + " " + ADJECTIVE1
> print "courses that will prepare them to become good" + " " + PLURAL_NOUN1 + ".  You can get a degree as a Bachelor of" + " " + PLURAL_NOUN2 + ", or tske a regular liberal" + PLURAL_NOUN3
> print "course.  Or, if you want to become a/an" + " " + ADJECTIVE2
> print "engineer, you can study" + " " + ADJECTIVE3
> print "mathmatics and differential" + " " + PLURAL_NOUN4 + ". Then after" + " " + NUMBER1
> print "years, if you want to continue your studis, you can write a/an" + " " + NOUN1
> print "and become a Doctor of" + " " + PLURAL_NOUN5 + ". When you get out into the world, if you have a diploma from a university, you will be able to get a job as a/an" + " " + AN_OCCUPATION1 + ".  If you don't have a diploma, you will have to take a job as a/an" + " " + AN_OCCUPATION2 + ".  So it's important that you study hard in highschool so you will do well on your College Enterence" + " " + PLURAL_NOUN6 + ".  Remember, 'A little learning is a/an" + " " + ADJECTIVE4
> print "thing."
> 
> print ''
> 
> #HERE IS MY PROBLEM
> #
> #
> #
> #
> print """
> 

> 
> 

> 
>     
> 

> 

> """
> #
> #
> #MY PROBLEM IS ABOVE
> #
> #
> print """
> 

> 
    If you want to input new words, then please fill out the entire form:

> 

> 

> 

> 
>     
>     
>     
>     
>     
>     
>     
>     
>     
>     
>     
>     
>     
>     
>     
>     
>     
>     
>     
>     
>     
>     
>     
>     
>     
>     
>     
> 

> 
    Don't forget:
> 
        An  ADJECTIVE  describes something or somebody.  Lumpy, soft, blond, ugly, messay, and short are adjectives.
> 
        An  ADVERB  tells how something is done.  It modifies a verb and usually ends in 'ly'.
> 
        A  NOUN  is the name of a person, place, or thing.  Woman, sidewalk, umbrella, horse-collar, bathtub, and nose are nouns.
> 
        A  VERB  is an action word.  Run, pitch, jump, and swim are verbs.
> 
        When a  GEOGRAPHICAL LOCATION is asked for, give any sort of place: a country or city [Spain, Cleaveland]
>             or a room [Bathroom, Kitchen].
> 
        An  EXCLAMATION  or  SILLY WORD  is any sort of funny sound, gasp, grunt, or outcry.
>             Wow! Ouch! Whomp! Ick! Gadzooks! are exclamations and silly words.
> 
        When a specific word is asked for like  NUMBER, A COLOR, AN ANIMAL,  or  A PART OF THE BODY ,
>             what is meant is a word that is one of those things.
> 
        When a  PLURAL  is asked for be sure to pluralize the word.
> 

> 
ADJECTIVE::
> 
PLURAL_NOUN:
> 
PLURAL_NOUN:
> 
PLURAL_NOUN:
> 
ADJECTIVE:
> 
ADJECTIVE:
> 
PLURAL_NOUN:
> 
NUMBER:
> 
NOUN:
> 
PLURAL_NOUN:
> 
AN_OCCUPATION:
> 
AN_OCCUPATION:
> 
PLURAL_NOUN:
> 
ADJECTIVE:
> 
A_PERSON:
> 
NOUN:
> 
NOUN:
> 
A_PERSON:
> 
NUMBER:
> 
NOUN:
> 
FAMOUS_PERSON:
> 
VERB:
> 
NAME:
> 
NAME:
> 
NOUN:
> 
NOUN:
> 

> 
> 
> """
> 
> form = cgi.FieldStorage()
> 
> if len(form)>0:
>     ADJECTIVE1 = form.getvalue('ADJECTIVE1')
>     ADJECTIVE2 = form.getvalue('ADJECTIVE2')
>     ADJECTIVE3 = form.getvalue('ADJECTIVE3')
>     ADJECTIVE4 = form.getvalue('ADJECTIVE4')
>     PLURAL_NOUN1 = form.getvalue('PLURAL_NOUN1')
>     PLURAL_NOUN2 = form.getvalue('PLURAL_NOUN2')
>     PLURAL_NOUN3 = form.getvalue('PLURAL_NOUN3')
>     PLURAL_NOUN4 = form.getvalue('PLURAL_NOUN4')
>     PLURAL_NOUN5 = form.getvalue('PLURAL_NOUN5')
>     PLURAL_NOUN6 = form.getvalue('PLURAL_NOUN6')
>     NUMBER1 = form.getvalue('NUMBER1')
>     NUMBER2 = form.getvalue('NUMBER2')
>     NOUN1 = form.gervalue('NOUN1')
>     NOUN2 = form.getvalue('NOUN2')
>     NOUN3 = form.getvalue('NOUN3')
>     NOUN4 = form.getvalue('NOUN4')
>     NOUN5 = form.getvalue('NOUN5')
>     NOUN6 = form.getvalue('NOUN6')
>     AN_OCCUPATION1 = form.getvalue('AN_OCCUPATION1')
>     AN_OCCUPATION2 = form.getvalue('AN_OCCUPATION2')
>     A_PERSON1 = form.getvalue('A_PERSON1')    
>     A_PERSON2 = form.getvalue('A_PERSON2')
>     NAME1 = form.getvalue('NAME1')
>     NAME2 = form.getvalue('NAME2')
>     VERB1 = form.getvalue('VERB1')
>     FAMOUS_PERSON1 = form.getvalue('FAMOUS_PERSON1')
> else:
>     ADJECTIVE1 = 'blond'
>     ADJECTIVE2 = 'blond'
>     ADJECTIVE3 = 'blond'
>     ADJECTIVE4 = 'blond'
>     PLURAL_NOUN1 = 'women'
>     PLURAL_NOUN2 = 'men'
>     PLURAL_NOUN3 = 'women'
>     PLURAL_NOUN4 = 'men'
>     PLURAL_NOUN5 = 'women'
>     PLURAL_NOUN6 = 'men'
>     NUMBER1 = '1'
>     NUMBER2 = '2'
>     NOUN1 = 'woman'
>     NOUN2 = 'man'
>     NOUN3 = 'woman'
>     NOUN4 = 'man'
>     NOUN5 = 'woman'
>     NOUN6 = 'man'
>     AN_OCCUPATION1 = 'teacher'
>     AN_OCCUPATION2 = 'waitress'
>     A_PERSON1 = ' fill in later '
>     A_PERSON2 = ' fill in later '
>     NAME1 = ' fill in later '
>     NAME2 = ' fill in later '
>     VERB1 = 'run'
>     FAMOUS_PERSON1 = 'GOD'
> 

> #!c:/Python22/python.exe
> # http://localhost:8080/cgi-bin/final.py
> # Program Files\Apache Group\Apache2\cgi-bin\final.py
> # Final Lab - python CGI script
> # Elizabeth Bernert
> 
> import cgi
> import cgitb; cgitb.enable()
> 
> print "Content-type: text/html\n\n"
> 
> print """
> 

> 
    Please fill out the entire form:

> 
    Don't forget:
> 
        An  ADJECTIVE  describes something or somebody.  Lumpy, soft, blond, ugly, messay, and short are adjectives.
> 
        An  ADVERB  tells how something is done.  It modifies a verb and usually ends in 'ly'.
> 
        A  NOUN  is the name of a person, place, or thing.  Woman, sidewalk, umbrella, horse-collar, bathtub, and nose are nouns.
> 
        A  VERB  is an action word.  Run, pitch, jump, and swim are verbs.
> 
        When a  GEOGRAPHICAL LOCATION is asked for, give any sort of place: a country or city [Spain, Cleaveland]
>             or a room [Bathroom, Kitchen].
> 
        An  EXCLAMATION  or  SILLY WORD  is any sort of funny sound, gasp, grunt, or outcry.
>             Wow! Ouch! Whomp! Ick! Gadzooks! are exclamations and silly words.
> 
        When a specific word is asked for like  NUMBER, A COLOR, AN ANIMAL,  or  A PART OF THE BODY ,
>             what is meant is a word that is one of those things.
> 
        When a  PLURAL  is asked for be sure to pluralize the word.
> 

> 

> 

> 

> 
>     
>     
>     
>     
>     
>     
>     
>     
>     
>     
>     
>     
>     
>     
>     
>     
>     
>     
>     
>     
>     
>     
>     
>     
>     
>     
>     
> 
ADJECTIVE::
> 
PLURAL_NOUN:
> 
PLURAL_NOUN:
> 
PLURAL_NOUN:
> 
ADJECTIVE:
> 
ADJECTIVE:
> 
PLURAL_NOUN:
> 
NUMBER:
> 
NOUN:
> 
PLURAL_NOUN:
> 
AN_OCCUPATION:
> 
AN_OCCUPATION:
> 
PLURAL_NOUN:
> 
ADJECTIVE:
> 
A_PERSON:
> 
NOUN:
> 
NOUN:
> 
A_PERSON:
> 
NUMBER:
> 
NOUN:
> 
FAMOUS_PERSON:
> 
VERB:
> 
NAME:
> 
NAME:
> 
NOUN:
> 
NOUN:
> 

> 
> 
> """
> 
> form = cgi.FieldStorage()
> 
> if len(form)>0:
>     ADJECTIVE1 = form.getvalue('ADJECTIVE1')
>     ADJECTIVE2 = form.getvalue('ADJECTIVE2')
>     ADJECTIVE3 = form.getvalue('ADJECTIVE3')
>     ADJECTIVE4 = form.getvalue('ADJECTIVE4')
>     PLURAL_NOUN1 = form.getvalue('PLURAL_NOUN1')
>     PLURAL_NOUN2 = form.getvalue('PLURAL_NOUN2')
>     PLURAL_NOUN3 = form.getvalue('PLURAL_NOUN3')
>     PLURAL_NOUN4 = form.getvalue('PLURAL_NOUN4')
>     PLURAL_NOUN5 = form.getvalue('PLURAL_NOUN5')
>     PLURAL_NOUN6 = form.getvalue('PLURAL_NOUN6')
>     NUMBER1 = form.getvalue('NUMBER1')
>     NUMBER2 = form.getvalue('NUMBER2')
>     NOUN1 = form.gervalue('NOUN1')
>     NOUN2 = form.getvalue('NOUN2')
>     NOUN3 = form.getvalue('NOUN3')
>     NOUN4 = form.getvalue('NOUN4')
>     NOUN5 = form.getvalue('NOUN5')
>     NOUN6 = form.getvalue('NOUN6')
>     AN_OCCUPATION1 = form.getvalue('AN_OCCUPATION1')
>     AN_OCCUPATION2 = form.getvalue('AN_OCCUPATION2')
>     A_PERSON1 = form.getvalue('A_PERSON1')    
>     A_PERSON2 = form.getvalue('A_PERSON2')
>     NAME1 = form.getvalue('NAME1')
>     NAME2 = form.getvalue('NAME2')
>     VERB1 = form.getvalue('VERB1')
>     FAMOUS_PERSON1 = form.getvalue('FAMOUS_PERSON1')
> else:
>     ADJECTIVE1 = 'blond'
>     ADJECTIVE2 = 'blond'
>     ADJECTIVE3 = 'blond'
>     ADJECTIVE4 = 'blond'
>     PLURAL_NOUN1 = 'women'
>     PLURAL_NOUN2 = 'men'
>     PLURAL_NOUN3 = 'women'
>     PLURAL_NOUN4 = 'men'
>     PLURAL_NOUN5 = 'women'
>     PLURAL_NOUN6 = 'men'
>     NUMBER1 = '1'
>     NUMBER2 = '2'
>     NOUN1 = 'woman'
>     NOUN2 = 'man'
>     NOUN3 = 'woman'
>     NOUN4 = 'man'
>     NOUN5 = 'woman'
>     NOUN6 = 'man'
>     AN_OCCUPATION1 = 'teacher'
>     AN_OCCUPATION2 = 'waitress'
>     A_PERSON1 = ' fill in later '
>     A_PERSON2 = ' fill in later '
>     NAME1 = ' fill in later '
>     NAME2 = ' fill in later '
>     VERB1 = 'run'
>     FAMOUS_PERSON1 = 'GOD'

> #!c:/Python22/python.exe
> # http://localhost:8080/cgi-bin/mult.py
> # Program Files\Apache Group\Apache2\cgi-bin\mult.py
> # Final Project - python CGI script
> 
> import cgi
> 
> import cgitb; cgitb.enable()
> 
> print "Content-type: text/html\n\n"
> 
> form = cgi.FieldStorage()
> 
> ADJECTIVE1 = str(form.getvalue('ADJECTIVE1'))
> A_PERSON1 = str(form.getvalue('A_PERSON1'))
> NOUN1 = str(form.getvalue('NOUN1'))
> PLURAL_NOUN1 = str(form.getvalue('PLURAL_NOUN1'))
> NOUN2 = str(form.getvalue('NOUN2'))
> NOUN3 = str(form.getvalue('NOUN3'))
> A_PERSON2 = str(form.getvalue('A_PERSON2'))
> NUMBER1 = str(form.getvalue('NUMBER1'))
> PLURAL_NOUN2 = str(form.getvalue('PLRAL_NOUN2'))
> NOUN4 = str(form.getvalue('NOUN4'))
> PLURAL_NOUN3 = str(form.getvalue('PLURAL_NOUN3'))
> 
> print ''
> 
> print "Well it's time for final exams again.  Her are some sample questions with" + " " + ADJECTIVE1
> print "answers that may give you an idea of what final exams are like:"
> print "
 
  QUESTION: "
> print "
 Who was the first president of the United States?"
> print "
  ANSWER: "
> print "
" + A_PERSON1
> print ", who was also called, 'The" + " " + NOUN1
> print "of Our Country."
> print "
 
  QUESTION: "
> print "
 What is the shortest distance between two" + " " + PLURAL_NOUN1 + "?"
> print "
  ANSWER: "
> print "
 A straight" + " " + NOUN2 + "."
> print "
 
  QUESTION: "
> print "Who said, 'I regret that I only have one" + " " + NOUN3
> print "to give for my country.'?"
> print "
  ANSWER:  "
> print "
" + A_PERSON2 + "."
> 
> print ''


-- 
Tim Johnson 
      http://www.alaska-internet-solutions.com
      http://www.johnsons-web.com